UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug UFO UpDates Mailing List Aug 2003 Aug 1: Re: Skeptic Doesn't Mean Cynic - Groff - Terry Groff [14] Re: Mogul 4 That Never Was - Bourdais - Gildas Bourdais [25] CCCRN News: Updates - Hensall & Stewarttown - Paul Anderson [46] Re: Mogul 4 That Never Was - Kaeser - Steven Kaeser [27] Re: Skeptic Doesn't Mean Cynic - Clark - Jerome Clark [4] Re: Mogul 4 That Never Was - Friedman - Stanton Friedman [26] Re: Mogul 4 That Never Was - Morris - Neil Morris [42] Mars The Amazing... - Ray Stanford [5] Re: Mogul 4 That Never Was - Bourdais - Gildas Bourdais [28] Re: Mogul 4 That Never Was - Morris - Neil Morris [48] CIA Falls On Its UFO-Secrecy Sword - Larry W. Bryant [56] Re: Mars The Amazing... - Hall - Richard Hall [3] Is The Truth Out There? - UFO UpDates - Toronto [62] Re: Mars The Amazing... - Tonnies - Mac Tonnies [6] Re: Is The Truth Out There? - Tonnies - Mac Tonnies [12] Re: Mars The Amazing... - Stanford - Ray Stanford [10] Re: Mars The Amazing... - Stanford - Ray Stanford [4] Re: Mars The Amazing... - Groff - Terry Groff [5] Re: Skeptic Doesn't Mean Cynic - Clark - Ray Stanford [5] Re: Mind Control Expert & Greer Strange Bedfellows - Eleanor White [5] Re: Mind Control Expert & Greer Strange Bedfellows - Wendy Connors [12] Aug 2: Re: Skeptic Doesn't Mean Cynic - Clark - Jerome Clark [11] Re: Mogul 4 That Never Was - Lavoie - Andrew Lavoie [46] Re: Mars The Amazing... - Stevenson - Colin Stevenson [5] Houston British Columbia Reports - Brian Vike - HBCC UFO [65] Re: Mogul 4 That Never Was - Bourdais - Gildas Bourdais [65] Re: Mind Control Expert & Greer Strange Bedfellows - Steven Kaeser [21] Re: Mind Control Expert & Greer Strange Bedfellows - Wendy Connors [25] Re: Mind Control Expert & Greer Strange Bedfellows - Steven Kaeser [18] Re: Mind Control Expert & Greer Strange Bedfellows - Eleanor White [22] Faded Disc Project Update - Wendy Connors [62] Non-Abductees Anonymous - Terry Groff [5] Re: Mind Control Expert & Greer Strange Bedfellows - Wendy Connors [11] Re: Mogul 4 That Never Was - Bourdai - Gildas Bourdais [37] Re: Mind Control Expert & Greer Strange Bedfellows - Michael Briggs [14] Re: Non-Abductees Anonymous - Velez - John Velez [5] Italian UFO Newsflash No. 401 - Edoardo Russo [115] Re: Mind Control Expert & Greer Strange Bedfellows - Tom DeMary [19] Re: Mind Control Expert & Greer Strange Bedfellows - Larry Hatch [10] Aug 3: Re: Non-Abductees Anonymous - Groff - Terry Groff [4] Re: Mind Control Expert & Greer Strange Bedfellows - Steven Kaeser [20] Argentine Fear & Mystery Over Meteorite - Scott Corrales [74] No Traces of Meteorite Found In Argentina - Scott Corrales [37] Aug 4: Re: Non-Abductees Anonymous - Hatch - Larry Hatch [6] "Keel Is Dead"? - Loren Coleman [25] 'Decoded' Message From Alien Crop Glyph - Eleanor White [33] Re: Mind Control Expert & Greer Strange Bedfellows - GT McCoy [11] Secrecy News - 08/04/03 - Steven Aftergood [135] Early 19th Century Virginia Alien? - David Rudiak [30] More Mutilated Cows In Argentina - Scott Corrales [23] Kecksburg Site Of Documentary - UFO UpDates - Toronto [22] 'It Had To Be A UFO' - UFO UpDates - Toronto [192] Circles Drawing Hundreds To Ontario Farm - UFO UpDates - Toronto [41] Circling Aliens In City Park - UFO UpDates - Toronto [41] Raelian Leader Booted From Incheon Airport - UFO UpDates - Toronto [30] Re: "Keel Is Dead"? - Friedman - Stanton Friedman [8] Kecksburg UFO Debate Renewed - UFO UpDates - Toronto [128] UFO Fans To Alight Near Hooper - UFO UpDates - Toronto [62] Conference Yields Stories & Evidence Of Aliens - UFO UpDates - Toronto [407] Re: Mind Control Expert & Greer Strange Bedfellows - Eleanor White [42] CCCRN News: Hensall & Stewarttown Formations - Paul Anderson [54] For Publication In The Pentagram - Larry W. Bryant [29] Aug 5: OSS/Foo-Fighters? - Keith Chester [8] Re: Early 19th Century Virginia Alien? - Young - Kenny Young [6] UK Parliamentary Discussion Of UFOs - Isaac Koi [137] Firmage Plans 3D Net - UFO UpDates - Toronto [64] US Presidential Candidate On UFOs - Charlette LeFevre [64] Re: Parliamentary Discussion Of UFOs - Pope - Nick Pope [107] Author John Spencer? - Roy Hale [5] Aug 6: Re: OSS/Foo-Fighters? - Pope - Nick Pope [30] Re: Private Aircraft Damage Event - Ledger - Don Ledger [13] Re: UK Parliamentary Discussion Of UFOs - Anthony - Gary Anthony [18] Re: Firmage Plans 3D Net - Groff - Terry Groff [17] Re: 'Decoded' Message From Alien Crop Glyph - - Ed Gehrman [16] UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 8 Number 29 - John Hayes [296] FOIA Appeal Letter To CIA - Larry W. Bryant [61] Re: Early 19th Century Virginia Alien? - Rudiak - David Rudiak [19] Re: Mogul 4 That Never Was - Lavoie - Andrew Lavoie [70] Art & UFOs? No Thanks Only Art - Eustaquio Anddrea Patounas [1] Re: Gordon Creighton (FSR) - 1908 - 2003 - - Joe McGonagle [17] Follow-up With Beverly Gleason - Kenny Young [58] Radio Station Lays Claim To Crop Circles - Jeff Westover [79] Filer's Files #32 -- 2003 - George A. Filer [535] Aug 7: Re: Mogul 4 That Never Was - Morris - Neil Morris [97] Query As To CIA Acquistion Of Turkish UFO Cases - Larry W. Bryant [40] Argentine Meteorite Impact Site May Have Been Found - Scott Corrales [57] Secrecy News -- 08/06/03 - Steven Aftergood [117] Two New Items At Magonia - 08-06-03 - John Rimmer [10] Re: Early 19th Century Virginia Alien? - Tonnies - Mac Tonnies [8] Re: Golden Section In Face on Mars - Mruzek - Jiri Mruzek [47] Re: Two New Items At Magonia - 08-06-03 - Connors - Wendy Connors [14] Re: 'Decoded' Message From Alien Crop Glyph - - Bill Hamilton [10] Re: 'Decoded' Message From Alien Crop Glyph - White - Eleanor White [18] Re: Two New Items At Magonia - 08-06-03 - Clark - Jerome Clark [17] Re: Early 19th Century Virginia Alien? - Rudiak - David Rudiak [14] Re: 'Decoded' Message From Alien Crop Glyph - - Mac Tonnies [9] [FOI-L] Politics & Science Ideology Over Science - Larry W. Bryant [30] NASA's Naked Emperors Have Spoken - Larry W. Bryant [48] Northeast of Kingston, Ontario - Brian Vike - HBCC UFO [59] Aug 8: CCCRN News: Formation #3 - Cranbrook, Ontario - Paul Anderson [34] VA 'UFO Slain Dog' Sheriff Quits Race - Kenny Young [70] Don't Miss The Perseid Meteor Shower - Steven L. Wilson Sr [12] Lake Superior: 1953 - Anonymous Source - Gord Heath [30] Morris K. Jessup & Hans Stefan Santesson - Robert Goerman [22] Anders Liljegren? - Keith Chester [4] Roswell Artifacts Captives Of Bureaucracy? - Larry W. Bryant [59] Re: 'Decoded' Message From Alien Crop Glyph - Hatch - Larry Hatch [70] 2 Reports From Southeast British Columbia - Brian Vike - HBCC UFO [96] Re: Mogul 4 That Never Was - Bourdais - Gildas Bourdais [60] Re: Early 19th Century Virginia Alien? - Stanford - Ray Stanford [7] Aug 9: Re: NASA's Naked Emperors Have Spoken - Oberg - James Oberg [16] Re: 'Decoded' Message From Alien Crop Glyph - White - Eleanor White [16] Re: 'Decoded' Message From Alien Crop Glyph - - Bill Hamilton [17] Re: 'Decoded' Message From Alien Crop Glyph - - Ray Stanford [24] Re: 'Decoded' Message From Alien Crop Glyph - - Ed Gehrman [15] The number enclosed in brackets is the number of lines of new text in
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 1 Re: Skeptic Doesn't Mean Cynic - Groff From: Terry Groff <terry@terrygroff.com> Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2003 03:24:36 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2003 08:16:11 -0400 Subject: Re: Skeptic Doesn't Mean Cynic - Groff >From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> >To: ufoupdates@sympatico.ca >Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 23:19:57 +0000 >Subject: Re: Skeptic Doesn't Mean Cynic >>From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >>To: <- UFO UpDates List -> >>Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 18:54:45 -0400 >>Subject: UFO UpDate: Skeptic Doesn't Mean Cynic >>Source: Metro Pulse - Knoxville, Tennessee >>http://www.metropulse.com/dir_zine/dir_2003/1331/t_rationally.h tml >>07-31-03 >>Think Definitively >>Skeptic Doesn't Mean Cynic >>By Massimo Pigliucci >> pigliucci@utk.edu >>I am proud to consider myself a skeptic. I run a skeptic book >>club in town, and subscribe to magazines such as Skeptic and >>Skeptical Inquirer. I fantasize of being an intellectual >>descendant, in my small ways, of Scottish philosopher David >>Hume, who made reasonable skepticism his method of approaching >>problems ranging from the political to the religious. ><snip> >Speaking as someone who has formally studied scientific method >and philosophy, the trouble with CSICOP-type "skeptics" is that >they give a bad name to a long and honorable tradition. >True skepticism about UFO claims is entirely justified; knee- >jerk rejection of UFOs as a potentially very important >scientific mystery is not. True skeptics, unfortunately, are a >rarity. What we get instead is highly opinionated, ill-informed, >data-deniers. > - Richard Hall I always try to convey myself as a "Skeptical Believer". People say to me "So, you want to prove UFO's exist?" and I say "No. I want to prove whether they exist or not". I always feel however that the former will ultimately prevail. As for CSICOP, I recently was asked why I had a link to their site on my website. I didn't really have an answer so I decided to write to CSICOP and ask them what their charter was. I had perused their site hoping to find some evidence of even-mindedness and I ultimately found none. They have opted not to reply to my enquiry (for more than a month) so I subsequently have removed all traces of them from my site. Terry Groff UFO Tools - http://terrygroff.com/ufotools/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 1 Re: Mogul 4 That Never Was - Bourdais From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais@wanadoo.fr> Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2003 11:01:22 +0200 Fwd Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2003 08:18:37 -0400 Subject: Re: Mogul 4 That Never Was - Bourdais >From: Andrew Lavoie <lavoiea@rogers.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 17:48:28 -0300 >Subject: Re: Mogul 4 That Never Was >>From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais@wanadoo.fr> >>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >>Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 09:44:26 +0200 >>Subject: Re: Mogul 4 That Never Was >>>From: Andrew Lavoie <lavoiea@rogers.com> >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >>>Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 14:53:14 -0300 >>>Subject: Re: Mogul 4 That Never Was >>>This is off the topic a little but I have done a considerable >>>amount of research regarding the ML307 target, and I would like >>>to share the results of this research with everyone. My research >>>thus far has brought to light some interesting facts which I >>>believe will cast some doubt on the historical development of >>>the ML307 as described in Professor Moore's book and the report >>>issued by the Air Force. >>Thank you for these new details about about radar targets. >>However, they don't seem to change the story told by professor >>Moore and the Air Force: >I agree that it doesn't change the story by the Professor but >what is does do is put into question what the Professor is >saying. How much of the information in his book is based on hard >details, and how much is based on toeing the Air Force party line, >is what one has to ask. >>The NYU team brought at Alamogordo a certain number of radar >>targets which were a left over stock of preproduction of the ML- >>307B model, which had been made by a New York toy manufacterer >>in 1944. He used reinforcement tape with abstract drawings of >>flowers. >>Your information does not seem to contradict that. >Could you please explain further why it doesn't. Andrew, Neil and List, You and Neil seem to question the story, as told by Moore, that the NYU team had brought targets with flowered tape. But you have not given any solid reason against that. On the contrary, it is a fact that Brazel, in his interview published by the Roswell Daily Record, did mention the recovery on June 14 of debris including flowered tape. This detail has been held up as the "smoking gun" for the Mogul 4 theory. This is an argument that you have to cope with. My opinion is that it is no smoking gun at all, because: first, there was no Mogul 4 launching, according to Crary; secondly, Crary launched a smaller cluster of balloons, such as described by all sources, with radar targets. It is probable that these targets were from the NYU stock, and this would explain Brazel's finding. It could even come from another launching since the NYU team launched that every day. The question of wether it was correct or not to call them ML- 307B, or whatever, does not make any difference at all. The problem is to explain Brazel's finding without Mogul 4. My point is that it is fairly easy to explain it, and that the whole Mogul 4 story is dead for good. Please, concentrate on the basic facts and arguments. Best regards, Gildas Bourdais
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 1 CCCRN News: Updates - Hensall & Stewarttown From: Paul Anderson <psa@cccrn.ca> Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 23:29:58 -0700 Fwd Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2003 08:20:21 -0400 Subject: CCCRN News: Updates - Hensall & Stewarttown CCCRN NEWS E-News from the Canadian Crop Circle Research Network August 1, 2003 http://www.cccrn.ca _____________________________ Updates - Hensall and Stewarttown Formations The formation near Kippen, Ontario (July 30) is actually closer to Hensall. It is a fairly long pictogram type, with three main circles and two curving "hooks" between two of them, reminiscent of the formation at Cherhill Down in England in 1993 (see preliminary diagram on web site). Aerial photos coming, pending publication in a local newspaper next week before they can be used on the CCCRN web site. Other ground shots and field reports from the CCCRN Ontario team being added in the meantime. Aerial footage shown on The New VR television news in Ontario. There is also a report that the Stewarttown, Ontario three circle formation (July 23) now has several additional circles added to it, as well as other "channels" or pathways. Further details, photos pending. Updates for both formations to be added to the web site as they become available. http://www.cccrn.ca ____________________________ The Prairie Circular Want more? Subscribe to The Prairie Circular, the quarterly print newsletter of CCCRN and keep informed with the latest news, updates, articles, reviews and complete crop circle coverage from the Canadian prairies and across the country... only from CCCRN! Only $12.00 Canadian per year. Further info: http://www.cccrn.ca/theprairiecircular.html Current issue: Spring 2003 ____________________________ CCCRN News is the e-news service of the Canadian Crop Circle Research Network, providing e-mail updates with the latest news and reports on the crop circle phenomenon in Canada, as well as other information on CCCRN-related projects and events, sent free to your e-mail To subscribe , send an e-mail with either Subscribe CCCRN News or Unsubscribe CCCRN News in the subject line to: cccrnnews@cccrn.ca The Canadian Crop Circle Research Network is a non-profit research organization which has been seriously investigating and documenting the crop circle phenomenon and other possibly related phenomena in Canada since 1995, creating a liason between researchers, farmers, the public, media and scientists C. Canadian Crop Circle Research Network, 2003
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 1 Re: Mogul 4 That Never Was - Kaeser From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2003 08:51:40 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2003 09:37:57 -0400 Subject: Re: Mogul 4 That Never Was - Kaeser >From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais@wanadoo.fr> >To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2003 11:01:22 +0200 >Subject: Re: Mogul 4 That Never Was <snip> >Andrew, Neil and List, >You and Neil seem to question the story, as told by Moore, that >the NYU team had brought targets with flowered tape. But you >have not given any solid reason against that. >On the contrary, it is a fact that Brazel, in his interview >published by the Roswell Daily Record, did mention the recovery >on June 14 of debris including flowered tape. This detail has >been held up as the "smoking gun" for the Mogul 4 theory. >This is an argument that you have to cope with. Gildas- This case has become so tainted over the years that it's difficult to get a clear picture of anything. Glenn Dennis has been criticized for his story becoming more embellished as time passes, with some indicating that he may have incorporated information from investigators questions into his recollection of past events. The same can be said for Charles Moore, whose intererst, viewpoint, and position seems to have changed dramatically after his meeting with James McAndrews during the Air Force investigation in 1995. Did the Roswell Daily Record interview you mention come after Brazel spent time as a guest of the military? If so, then anything he said could be suspect in the eyes of those who believe there's a coverup going on here. Finally, if the debris was simply balloon fragments, why would Marcel, Blanchard, Haut, and Brazel have treated the incident in the way that they did. All of them were familiar with balloons, radar reflectors and the like, so it seems a bit far-fetched to me that they would have mis-identified the debris as something anomolous if that's all it was. Everyone seems to pick and choose the information that supports their contention, and all we really know is that we don't have enough information to draw an absolute conclusion that could end the debate. IMO, these are issues that also have to dealt with. Steve
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 1 Re: Skeptic Doesn't Mean Cynic - Clark From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net> Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2003 08:04:16 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2003 09:39:55 -0400 Subject: Re: Skeptic Doesn't Mean Cynic - Clark >From: Terry Groff <terry@terrygroff.com> >To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2003 03:24:36 -0500 >Subject: Re: Skeptic Doesn't Mean Cynic >>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> >>To: ufoupdates@sympatico.ca >>Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 23:19:57 +0000 >>Subject: Re: Skeptic Doesn't Mean Cynic >>>From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >>>To: <- UFO UpDates List -> >>>Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 18:54:45 -0400 >>>Subject: UFO UpDate: Skeptic Doesn't Mean Cynic >>>Skeptic Doesn't Mean Cynic >>>By Massimo Pigliucci >>>I am proud to consider myself a skeptic. I run a skeptic book >>>club in town, and subscribe to magazines such as Skeptic and >>>Skeptical Inquirer. I fantasize of being an intellectual >>>descendant, in my small ways, of Scottish philosopher David >>>Hume, who made reasonable skepticism his method of approaching >>>problems ranging from the political to the religious. >>Speaking as someone who has formally studied scientific method >>and philosophy, the trouble with CSICOP-type "skeptics" is that >>they give a bad name to a long and honorable tradition. >As for CSICOP, I recently was asked why I had a link to their >site on my website. I didn't really have an answer so I decided >to write to CSICOP and ask them what their charter was. I had >perused their site hoping to find some evidence of >even-mindedness and I ultimately found none. In the end, CSICOP is just another Church of the One True Faith. Real skepticism, growing from a profound appreciation of the uncertainty of all knowledge, is harder. Jerry Clark
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 1 Re: Mogul 4 That Never Was - Friedman From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys@rogers.com> Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2003 10:28:00 -0300 Fwd Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2003 13:26:27 -0400 Subject: Re: Mogul 4 That Never Was - Friedman >From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais@wanadoo.fr> >To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2003 11:01:22 +0200 >Subject: Re: Mogul 4 That Never Was >>From: Andrew Lavoie <lavoiea@rogers.com> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >>Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 17:48:28 -0300 >>Subject: Re: Mogul 4 That Never Was >>>From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais@wanadoo.fr> >>>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >>>Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 09:44:26 +0200 >>>Subject: Re: Mogul 4 That Never Was >>>>From: Andrew Lavoie <lavoiea@rogers.com> >>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >>>>Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 14:53:14 -0300 >>>>Subject: Re: Mogul 4 That Never Was >>>>This is off the topic a little but I have done a considerable >>>>amount of research regarding the ML307 target, and I would like >>>>to share the results of this research with everyone. My research >>>>thus far has brought to light some interesting facts which I >>>>believe will cast some doubt on the historical development of >>>>the ML307 as described in Professor Moore's book and the report >>>>issued by the Air Force. >>>Thank you for these new details about about radar targets. >>>However, they don't seem to change the story told by professor >>>Moore and the Air Force: >>I agree that it doesn't change the story by the Professor but >>what is does do is put into question what the Professor is >>saying. How much of the information in his book is based on hard >>details, and how much is based on toeing the Air Force party line, >>is what one has to ask. >>>The NYU team brought at Alamogordo a certain number of radar >>>targets which were a left over stock of preproduction of the ML- >>>307B model, which had been made by a New York toy manufacterer >>>in 1944. He used reinforcement tape with abstract drawings of >>>flowers. >>>Your information does not seem to contradict that. >>Could you please explain further why it doesn't. >Andrew, Neil and List, >You and Neil seem to question the story, as told by Moore, that >the NYU team had brought targets with flowered tape. But you >have not given any solid reason against that. >On the contrary, it is a fact that Brazel, in his interview >published by the Roswell Daily Record, did mention the recovery >on June 14 of debris including flowered tape. This detail has >been held up as the "smoking gun" for the Mogul 4 theory. >This is an argument that you have to cope with. >My opinion is that it is no smoking gun at all, because: first, >there was no Mogul 4 launching, according to Crary; secondly, >Crary launched a smaller cluster of balloons, such as described >by all sources, with radar targets. >It is probable that these targets were from the NYU stock, and >this would explain Brazel's finding. It could even come >from another launching since the NYU team launched >that every day. >The question of wether it was correct or not to call them ML- >307B, or whatever, does not make any difference at all. The >problem is to explain Brazel's finding without Mogul 4. My point >is that it is fairly easy to explain it, and that the whole >Mogul 4 story is dead for good. >Please, concentrate on the basic facts and arguments. >Best regards, The basic fact is that the primary articles in evening papers for July 8(From Chicago, West) all stated that the wreckage was found last week (not June 14). Brazel came into town on Sunday, July 6, after hearing about rewards for a flying saucer in Corona, on July 5. He led Marcel and Cavitt back on the 6th because there was much more wreckage out there on the ranch. Remember an area hundreds of yards long and a hundred+ feet wide. If all there had been were a few balloons and a couple of radar reflectors, he would have recognized them, Marcel and Cavitt would never have made the long dusty trip, because he would have brought them with him for the small reward for balloon packages.. He was brought back into town to tell his new story. The flowered tape, which nobody has seen in Ramey's office or any place else, was a new addition to the story along with the bundle of sticks. Which radar reflector was in Ramey's office doesn't matter. It wasn't part of the original mass of material found out on the ranch. The latter was not balsa wood or paper covered foil easily torn. We cannot ignore the testimony of Brazel's neighbors, and the July 8 articles and Marcel's and Bill Brazel's and Jesse Marcel Junior's testimony. The new issue (Aug./Sept.) of UFO Magazine has my article discussing the gross anti-Roswell cover stories in Popular Mechanics and Skeptic. Stan Friedman www.v-j-enterprises.com/sfpage.html
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 1 Re: Mogul 4 That Never Was - Morris From: Neil Morris <neil@adm1.ph.man.ac.uk> Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2003 14:45:54 +0100 Fwd Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2003 13:31:28 -0400 Subject: Re: Mogul 4 That Never Was - Morris >From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais@wanadoo.fr> >To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 09:44:26 +0200 >Subject: Re: Mogul 4 That Never Was >>From: Andrew Lavoie <lavoiea@rogers.com> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >>Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 14:53:14 -0300 >>Subject: Re: Mogul 4 That Never Was >>>From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais@wanadoo.fr> >>>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >>>Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 11:19:53 +0200 >>>Subject: Re: Mogul 4 That Never Was >Thank you for these new details about about radar targets. >However, they don't seem to change the story told by professor >Moore and the Air Force: >The NYU team brought at Alamogordo a certain number of radar >targets which were a left over stock of preproduction of the ML- >307B model, which had been made by a New York toy manufacterer >in 1944. He used reinforcement tape with abstract drawings of >flowers. >Your information does not seem to contradict that. >Moore, Pflock and the Air Force say that these targets were used >only for the Mogul trains 4 and 5. Gildas, I think if you check your sources closely the idea of the "flower tape" all points back to one source, that of Prof Moore's memory. As far as I'm aware there has never been any verification of the flower tape actually being used in prototype ML307's or otherwise, no samples or records of it's use have ever been found. >Brazel found debris with flowered tape on June 14. These details gleened from the RDR July 9th edition interview I think? I have mentioned this interview is highly suspect, and probably made under pressure from the military as Frank Joyce maintains Mack admitted to him at the time. If you check out other sources from the afternoon of the 8th you get a different view. The RAAF press release states plainly that the debris was found "sometime last week" and the RAAF Intelligence Office also gave a similar date for the find as reported on UP wire. The "three weeks ago" seems to first crop up from Sheriff Wilcox in reports from that afternoon. I also seem to recall Bill Brazel Jnr. said his father had first found the debris the week before, but I'm running on grey matter with that, so don't quote me. >Mogul 5 landed near Roswell, Flight 5 almost flew over RAAF and came down a few miles east of the base, it was observed and followed to touchdown by it's B17 chase plane who were no doubt in contact with RAAF to let them know what they were about. >and Mogul 4 may have landed at the >Foster ranch, according to Moore's complicated calculations >(many thanks to David Rudiak and Brad Sparks for showing how >"elaborated" they are !) >Now, the argument I made is twofold: >Mogul 4 was not launched, according to Crary's diary; instead, >Crary launched in the morning a cluster of balloons. >These clusters are described in all sources as made up of several >balloons and targets: >3 to 7 balloons, and 3 to 5 targets, according to Pflock (p >148). >In the Roswell Report, there is a drawing of such a cluster, >just after the statement of Charles Moore: >"Typical radar target flight used by the NYU balloon group in >1947" It has three 350 grams sounding balloons, and three ML-307 >radar targets. >Most probably, this is the kind of cluster that Crary launched >in the morning of June 4, and it is logical to suppose that he >used the NYU equipment for that, including targets taken in >their stock of flowered tape targets. >In other words, what Brazel found was not Mogul 4, but probably >such a small ballon cluster, and the Mogul 4 theory is in big >trouble. Maybe or maybe not, we don't know, it's just as probable that the train assembly proceeded as normal up until it was decided to scrub the launch but then as the train was assembled it could have been launched but with the experimental constant level ballast system replaced by ordinary "dead" ballast as Crary said to test systems. The systems being "did we put it together ok" and "ok, will it fly". We just don't know. ><snip> >>I would like to close this by citing a statement General Ramey >>made as reported by Reuters on July 10th, 1947: >>"Before Brigadier General Ramey's broadcast, Major Edwin Kirtan >>[sic], duty officer at Eighth Air Force headquarters at Fort >>Worth, quoted him as saying "it looks like a hexagonal object >>covered with tinfoil or other shining material suspended from a >>balloon of about twenty feet in diameter. It is possibly a >>weather balloon flown at the highest altitude but none of the >>army men at this base recognize it as an army type balloon." >This is a curious statement. It does not fit to Mogul, it does >not fit either to the clusters described above, and it does not >fit to a simple weather balloon with a target. It would fit >better to yet another type of launching which is also mentioned, >for instance by Charles Moore : Captain John Smith, of the Air >Weather Service, launched, for the monitoring of the V-2 >rockets, 2,000 grams balloons carrying either radiosondes or ML- >307 radar targets (see Moore p 99). >There were many balloon launchings and, when the cover up was >put in place at Fort Worth, they may have opted, at the >beginning, for such a type of balloon. Who knows ? But it does >not matter, really. >Again and again, if Roswell officers had found such equipment, >they would have identified it at once, Exactly, and the same can be said for the materials used in the NYU MOGUL flights. It was all 'ordinary' _not_ 'extraordinary'. I don't know if you have read Jess Marcel's military records but if you do you will see that he had 2 _RADAR_ training courses in the period 1945-1947, these included radar _targets_. >just like Irving Newton in Fort Worth. But Irving was helped a little by being told what he was going to see in Gen Ramey's office and also what Ramey thought it might be. Would you then contradict your commanding officer?. Best Regards Neil
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 1 Mars The Amazing... From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2003 11:24:48 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2003 13:36:36 -0400 Subject: Mars The Amazing... Some of you might find this image of Mars kind of fascinating: http://www.space.com/imageoftheday/image_of_day_030731.html Ray Stanford "You know my method. It is founded upon the observance of trifles." -- Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 1 Re: Mogul 4 That Never Was - Bourdais From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais@wanadoo.fr> Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2003 18:19:47 +0200 Fwd Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2003 13:39:18 -0400 Subject: Re: Mogul 4 That Never Was - Bourdais >From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> >To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2003 08:51:40 -0400 >Subject: Re: Mogul 4 That Never Was >>From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais@wanadoo.fr> >>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >>Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2003 11:01:22 +0200 >>Subject: Re: Mogul 4 That Never Was ><snip> >>You and Neil seem to question the story, as told by Moore, that >>the NYU team had brought targets with flowered tape. But you >>have not given any solid reason against that. >>On the contrary, it is a fact that Brazel, in his interview >>published by the Roswell Daily Record, did mention the recovery >>on June 14 of debris including flowered tape. This detail has >>been held up as the "smoking gun" for the Mogul 4 theory. >>This is an argument that you have to cope with. >Did the Roswell Daily Record interview you mention come after >Brazel spent time as a guest of the military? If so, then >anything he said could be suspect in the eyes of those who >believe there's a coverup going on here. Steven, and List Yes, the interview took place after Brazel had spent the day at the base. It is pretty obvious that he was told to talk about his balloon find of June 14, and to shut up about the real debris field that he found in the first days of July. The point I am trying to discuss is that he described flowered tape, which has become the "smoking gun" of the Mogulists. There are not many options here: - Brazel would have invented that detail - the military would have given him that detail - he did find flowered tape I cannot think of Brazel inventing such a curious detail. The military at Roswell were not in the know of the balloon launchings by NYU at Alamogordo. So, it seems very unlikely that they would have given such a detail to Brazel. Instead, it is Brazel who told them that he had found balloon debris on June 14, and then they instructed him to tell just that and nothing else. All this means that there is a litle problem to solve, and I proposed a solution for it. Since Mogul 4 was cancelled, Brazel probably found a smaller cluster of balloons, with those famous flowered taped targets. You may put that in doubt, but I am waiting for serious arguments against it. In the meantime I think that, in addition to the improbable flight exposed by David Rudiak, this should put an end for good to the Mogul 4 story. Best regards, Gildas Bourdais
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 1 Re: Mogul 4 That Never Was - Morris From: Neil Morris <neil@adm1.ph.man.ac.uk> Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2003 17:48:57 +0100 Fwd Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2003 13:42:07 -0400 Subject: Re: Mogul 4 That Never Was - Morris >From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais@wanadoo.fr> >To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2003 11:01:22 +0200 >Subject: Re: Mogul 4 That Never Was >Andrew, Neil and List, >You and Neil seem to question the story, as told by Moore, that >the NYU team had brought targets with flowered tape. But you >have not given any solid reason against that. Gildas, I thought my point about the fact that the NYU launches were taking place _3_ years after the introduction of the type ML307 target was sound enough. The ML307 was a use once and throw away piece of equipment, how many thousands if not tens/hundreds of thousands of these targets do you think the US military had gone through in 3 years??, yet they'd held back a few boxes of "pre- production" samples?? why?. It would have to have been more than a few boxes to, remember before they came out to NM they had also made launches on the east coast. >On the contrary, it is a fact that Brazel, in his interview >published by the Roswell Daily Record, did mention the recovery >on June 14 of debris including flowered tape. This detail has >been held up as the "smoking gun" for the Mogul 4 theory. I agree it has, but don't take the RDR interview in isolation and it's contents as gospel truth. It's highly likely the details are what the military wanted Mack to say, he said as much to Frank Joyce just later that same evening. You also have to bare in mind the time that these events took place, it's a fare guess that the RDR interview took place around 6 to 7pm, this is long _after_ the cover story was launched in Fort Worth, we know that was in place some time before 5.30pm FW time(4.30pm Roswell time) and the AAF were actively debunking the story from then on. >This is an argument that you have to cope with. >My opinion is that it is no smoking gun at all, because: first, >there was no Mogul 4 launching, according to Crary; But there was a launch of sorts, we just don't know how it was configured. >secondly, Crary launched a smaller cluster of balloons, such >as described by all sources, with radar targets. Yes, but we can only _guess_, as did Moore, that radar targets were involved, it's not a _fact_. >It is probable that these targets were from the NYU stock, and >this would explain Brazel's finding. It could even come >from another launching since the NYU team launched >that every day. >The question of wether it was correct or not to call them ML- >307B, or whatever, does not make any difference at all. The >problem is to explain Brazel's finding without Mogul 4. My point >is that it is fairly easy to explain it, and that the whole >Mogul 4 story is dead for good. >Please, concentrate on the basic facts and arguments. A few of the facts as I see them. 1) NYU (MOGUL) Flight 4 was scrubbed due to low cloud. 2) The NYU team still made a launch to test out "systems" No detailed record of the configuration was kept. It may or may not have had radar targets. 3) The only "details" rely on Charles Moore's memory alone. And a prolog to the RDR interview Mack gave on the evening of the 8th. AP's Jason Kellahin in his affidavit claims he came across Mack in the company of some military on his way down from Albuquerque on the 8th where he'd posted the first press release on AP at 2.16pm. He came across them at a "debris site". The only debris site he could have feasibly got to on his route was that Flight 11 recovery site just off the main highway outside Roswell. Kellahin then follows Mack who is still with the military, to Roswell where shortly after Mack gives his interview to the RDR, the RDR was Kellahin's original destination and he attends Mack's interview. The military wait outside the RDR offices while Mack gives his interview. If Kellahin came across Mack at the remains of one of the Flight 11 launches it would be very convenient for background information for that later interview. Best Regards Neil
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 1 CIA Falls On Its UFO-Secrecy Sword From: Larry W. Bryant <overtci@cavtel.net> Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2003 13:24:25 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2003 13:44:22 -0400 Subject: CIA Falls On Its UFO-Secrecy Sword [LWB Note: So, UFOguys and UFOgals, the UFOmeisters at the U. S. Central Intelligence Agency are reverting to their pre-1953 UFO- intelligence zeitgeist - you know: that in which they diligently collect, analyze, and exploit hard-core UFO-encounter information without any public/congressional oversight, without justifying their expenditure of funds for this function, and without (apparently) caring to realize that this reversion betrays their heretofore public protestation that the Agency no longer has any investigative/evaluative role in official UFO research. "Having it both ways" seems to be the Agency's motto these days. Perhaps even more important: does their reversion mean they're also resuming production of dossiers on selected UFO researchers? And have they heard the last from LWB on this issue? Stay tuned.] --- TO: Larry W. Bryant REFERENCE: F-2003-01199 FROM: Kathryn I Dyer CIA Information and Privacy Coordinator DATE: 24 July 2003 This acknowledges receipt of your 27 June 2003 letter requesting records under the provisions of the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA). Your letter states that "according to recent press accounts in Turkey, certain CIA personnel, during the period 1999-2003, officially have sought (and acquired) from the Turkish Intelligence Agency (MIT) various hard-core cases of UFO encounters reported throughout that country." Specifically, you request is for: "a copy of all-CIA-generated and CIA-received records pertaining to this transmittal of UFO-related MIT information, along with any and all other records revealing such CIA UFO-related solicitations directed to, coordinated with, and fulfilled by other intelligence services/operations conducted by foreign countries...." For identification purposes we have assigned your request the number referenced above. Please refer to this number in future correspondence. The CIA can neither confirm nor deny the existence or nonexistence of records responsive to your request. Such information - unless it has been officially acknowledged -- would be classified for reasons of national security under Executive Order 12958. The fact of the existence or nonexistence of such records would also relate directly to information concerning intelligence sources and methods. The Director of Central Intelligence has the responsibility and authority to protect such information from unauthorized disclosure in accordance with Section 103(c)(6) of the National Security Act of 1947 and Section 6 of the CIA Act of 1949. Therefore, your request is denied under FOIA exemptions (b)(1) and (b)(3); an explanation of these exemptions is enclosed. The CIA official responsible for this determination is Kathryn I Dyer, Information and Privacy Coordinator. By this action we are neither confirming nor denying the existence or nonexistence of such records. You may appeal this decision by addressing your appeal to the Agency Release Panel, in my care, within 45 days from the date of this letter. Should you choose to do this, please explain the basis of your appeal.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 1 Re: Mars The Amazing... - Hall From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2003 18:08:14 +0000 Fwd Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2003 14:28:54 -0400 Subject: Re: Mars The Amazing... - Hall >From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker@earthlink.net> >To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2003 11:24:48 -0400 >Subject: Mars The Amazing... >Some of you might find this image of Mars kind of fascinating: >http://www.space.com/imageoftheday/image_of_day_030731.html >Ray Stanford This photo proves that there is religion on Mars. Those are Martians at Noon prayer facing their equivalent of Mecca. - Dick
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 1 Is The Truth Out There? From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2003 14:38:56 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2003 14:38:56 -0400 Subject: Is The Truth Out There? Source: The Australian Broadcasting Corporation http://www.abc.net.au/news/indepth/featureitems/s914365.htm 07-31-03 Is The Truth Out There? Flying saucers, UFOs, extra-terrestrial life - most people think it is all fiction. But for some it is all too real and an international conference was held in Perth in Western Australia to discuss the "hidden truths", information that a so-called secret government is withholding from the public. Adapted from a report from ABC Radio's 'AM' program Conference organiser Mary Rodwell has counselled 800 people in Perth who say they have been contacted by non-humans. Ms Rodwell says most of these experiences seem to have occurred when the individual is relaxed, like when they are about to go to sleep. Extra-terrestrial "I mean beings from other planets, but I also say that we think some of the beings may be what's known as inter-dimensional as well," Ms Rodwell said. "So I mean it's a very hard one to explain but it's like not all of them come from this dimension." So what kinds of experiences do people have with these beings? "The classic X-Files is the bright lights in the room, not being able to move, feeling a presence or presences around you, obviously feeling frightened and frozen in their beds, they feel like they're paralysed, often there's a sense of a buzzing sound around them, and sometimes they have a feeling of going through walls or, and having certain procedures done on them on the craft," Ms Rodwell said. But given that a lot of these experiences have happened in relaxed states, could it be possible these are manifestations of the mind? "One could say that if they weren't left with marks on their body that they can't explain, including a shaved area on one gentlemen's leg, for example," Ms Rodwell said. "These marks actually fluoresce in black ultraviolet light, and they're scoop marks, they're rashes, they are like little dots that are very painful, and these always happen after these experiences." So does Ms Rodwell believe all of the people that she has counselled have been contacted by non-humans? "I would believe 99 per cent, certainly," Ms Rodwell said. "[But] there is the odd view that I think actually need medical help." Ms Rodwell says people generally go to the doctor first but they usually believe the person has bumped into a piece of furniture or run into something. The conference focussed on claims that non-humans have put objects inside people, such as metallic things that affects their own nerve system. However, none of this material will be on show for physical examination because it is apparently in laboratories in the US. Ms Rodwell says people should be aware that a secret government is trying to keep certain information from getting into the public arena. "The whole idea of this conference is to make this information available to the public," Ms Rodwell said. Does she think the media part of this conspiracy? "I don't think the media per se is, I think some of the corporations that run the media have obviously got maybe a different agenda, and if they want something squashed, believe me, they'll squash it," she said. [UFO UpDates thanks www.http://anomalist.com for the lead]
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 1 Re: Mars The Amazing... - Tonnies From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2003 11:39:17 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2003 15:57:38 -0400 Subject: Re: Mars The Amazing... - Tonnies >From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker@earthlink.net> >To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2003 11:24:48 -0400 >Subject: Mars The Amazing... >Some of you might find this image of Mars kind of >fascinating: http://www.space.com/imageoftheday/image_of_day_030731.html They actually do resemblance fortune cookies. But they also have a resemblance to Pac-Man I'm surprised Space.com didn't note..... Mac Tonnies (macbot@yahoo.com) Explore MTVI @ http://www.mactonnies.com Posthuman Blues: http://posthumanblues.blogspot.com (daily blog)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 1 Re: Is The Truth Out There? - Tonnies From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2003 11:58:27 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2003 15:59:48 -0400 Subject: Re: Is The Truth Out There? - Tonnies >Source: The Australian Broadcasting Corporation http://www.abc.net.au/news/indepth/featureitems/s914365.htm >07-31-03 >Is The Truth Out There? <snip> >"I mean beings from other planets, but I also say that we think >some of the beings may be what's known as inter-dimensional as >well," Ms Rodwell said. >"So I mean it's a very hard one to explain but it's like not all >of them come from this dimension." The term "inter-dimensional" is batted around all the time by abduction "experts." What, pray tell, does Ms. Rodwell mean when she says that some aliens are interdimensional as opposed to extraterrestrial? Does she know? Or does she just like the sound of it? Having read some of Rodwell's "research," I'm going with the latter. Mac Tonnies (macbot@yahoo.com) Explore MTVI @ http://www.mactonnies.com Posthuman Blues: http://posthumanblues.blogspot.com (daily blog)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 1 Re: Mars The Amazing... - Stanford From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2003 16:15:13 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2003 16:37:43 -0400 Subject: Re: Mars The Amazing... - Stanford >From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> >To: ufoupdates@sympatico.ca >Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2003 18:08:14 +0000 >Subject: Re: Mars The Amazing... >>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker@earthlink.net> >>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >>Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2003 11:24:48 -0400 >>Subject: Mars The Amazing... >>Some of you might find this image of Mars kind of fascinating: >>http://www.space.com/imageoftheday/image_of_day_030731.html >>Ray Stanford >This photo proves that there is religion on Mars. Those are >Martians at Noon prayer facing their equivalent of Mecca. Hi Dick, Thanks! I knew some senior UFO researcher should be able to help us understand what's going on there. I guess I'm getting old or I'd have recognized that the moment I saw that image. :-o Congratulations! You have discovered the first sign of religious life on Mars! Your place in the history of both science and religion is now secure. There just aren't many of them like us left, Dick. :) Kindest Regards, Ray
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 1 Re: Mars The Amazing... - Stanford From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2003 16:18:41 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2003 17:31:30 -0400 Subject: Re: Mars The Amazing... - Stanford >From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2003 11:39:17 -0700 (PDT) >Subject: Re: Mars The Amazing... >>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker@earthlink.net> >>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >>Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2003 11:24:48 -0400 >>Subject: Mars The Amazing... >>Some of you might find this image of Mars kind of >>fascinating: >>http://www.space.com/imageoftheday/image_of_day_030731.html >They actually do resemblance fortune cookies. But they also have >a resemblance to Pac-Man I'm surprised Space.com didn't note..... Right! I knew I'd seen those things dashing around somewhere. :) Ray Stanford "You know my method. It is founded upon the observance of trifles." -- Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 1 Re: Mars The Amazing... - Groff From: Terry Groff <terry@terrygroff.com> Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2003 15:18:38 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2003 17:32:44 -0400 Subject: Re: Mars The Amazing... - Groff >From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> >To: ufoupdates@sympatico.ca >Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2003 18:08:14 +0000 >Subject: Re: Mars The Amazing... >>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker@earthlink.net> >>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >>Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2003 11:24:48 -0400 >>Subject: Mars The Amazing... >>Some of you might find this image of Mars kind of fascinating: http://www.space.com/imageoftheday/image_of_day_030731.html >>Ray Stanford >This photo proves that there is religion on Mars. Those are >Martians at Noon prayer facing their equivalent of Mecca. > - Dick LOL! Them's some mighty big Martians. At 6 meters per pixel (3Km/500px) these guys are somewhere between 13 and 16 pixels wide, or 78 and 96 meters wide. Pretty hefty huh? :-) Terry
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 1 Re: Skeptic Doesn't Mean Cynic - Clark From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2003 16:26:41 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2003 17:34:07 -0400 Subject: Re: Skeptic Doesn't Mean Cynic - Clark >From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net> >To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2003 08:04:16 -0500 >Subject: Re: Skeptic Doesn't Mean Cynic <snip> >In the end, CSICOP is just another Church of the One True Faith. >Real skepticism, growing from a profound appreciation of the >uncertainty of all knowledge, is harder. Thanks, Jerry. That's worth quoting. May I do so with credit? Ray Stanford "You know my method. It is founded upon the observance of trifles." -- Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 1 Re: Mind Control Expert & Greer Strange Bedfellows From: Eleanor White <eleanor@raven1.net> Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2003 16:29:36 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2003 17:35:32 -0400 Subject: Re: Mind Control Expert & Greer Strange Bedfellows >From: Wendy Connors <FadedDiscs@comcast.net> >To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 11:59:09 -0600 >Subject: Re: Mind Control Expert & Greer Strange Bedfellows <snip> >Must work. How else to explain people flocking around Dr. Greer, >shelling out hundreds, for the privilege of standing out in the >sticks with a flashlight, hoping the space people will flick >their Bic's in acknowledgment. >Boggles the rational mind. If UFO occupants are willing to communicate by blinking lights, what is rational about ignoring that avenue of communication? I thought the idea of ufology is to learn the truth. Eleanor White
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 1 Re: Mind Control Expert & Greer Strange Bedfellows From: Wendy Connors <FadedDiscs@comcast.net> Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2003 16:18:27 -0600 Fwd Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2003 18:28:30 -0400 Subject: Re: Mind Control Expert & Greer Strange Bedfellows >From: Eleanor White <eleanor@raven1.net> >To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2003 16:29:36 -0400 >Subject: Re: Mind Control Expert & Greer Strange Bedfellows >>From: Wendy Connors <FadedDiscs@comcast.net> >>To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 11:59:09 -0600 >>Subject: Re: Mind Control Expert & Greer Strange Bedfellows <snip> >Must work. How else to explain people flocking around Dr. Greer, >shelling out hundreds, for the privilege of standing out in the >sticks with a flashlight, hoping the space people will flick >their Bic's in acknowledgment. >Boggles the rational mind. >>If UFO occupants are willing to communicate by blinking lights, what is rational about ignoring that avenue of communication? >>I thought the idea of ufology is to learn the truth. The science of Ufology covers both the search for truth and untruth. The reality of UFOs are documentable and have been. As to your belief that they have occupants, there is not a shred of physical evidence to support this, as yet. How many trips does Greer need to take to the boondocks, brain dead people in tow, to have convinced everyone by now that this method is bogus. Probably better not to bottom feed for answers using flashlights. Wendy Connors
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 2 Re: Skeptic Doesn't Mean Cynic - Clark From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net> Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2003 19:39:06 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 02 Aug 2003 07:42:42 -0400 Subject: Re: Skeptic Doesn't Mean Cynic - Clark >From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker@earthlink.net> >To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2003 16:26:41 -0400 >Subject: Re: Skeptic Doesn't Mean Cynic >>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net> >>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >>Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2003 08:04:16 -0500 >>Subject: Re: Skeptic Doesn't Mean Cynic >>In the end, CSICOP is just another Church of the One True Faith. >>Real skepticism, growing from a profound appreciation of the >>uncertainty of all knowledge, is harder. >Thanks, Jerry. That's worth quoting. May I do so with credit? Thanks, Ray, for the flattering response, and of course you may use those words on any appropriate or useful occasion or context. Ironically, in the last conversation I had with him - on a Sunday afternoon exactly a week before he died - my late friend Marcello Truzzi, cofounder of and soon after refugee from CSICOP, spoke of how hard it is to be sure of what we know. He was a wise man, and I will always miss both him and his insights into this elusive phenomenon we call "knowledge." Cordially, Jerry Clark
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 2 Re: Mogul 4 That Never Was - Lavoie From: Andrew Lavoie <lavoiea@rogers.com> Date: Sat, 2 Aug 2003 01:26:01 -0300 Fwd Date: Sat, 02 Aug 2003 07:44:50 -0400 Subject: Re: Mogul 4 That Never Was - Lavoie >From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais@wanadoo.fr> >To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2003 11:01:22 +0200 >Subject: Re: Mogul 4 That Never Was >The question of wether it was correct or not to call them ML- >307B, or whatever, does not make any difference at all. > >Best regards, Gildas and List, The question of whether it was correct or not to call them the ML307B does make a difference. According to Moore the ML307/AP targets were accepted by the Signal Corps Laboratories in June 1944. There were problems with this target as they would often break up in flight because of aerodynamically induced stress. The problems were fixed and puff we now have the ML307B/AP. We know for a fact that the ML307A/AP existed, of which there is no mention either by the Professor and nor is it listed on the Signal Corps drawing. So how could there be preproduction models of the ML307B/AP originating from the ML307/AP and by-passing the fact that the ML307A/AP was in full production. The Signal Corps would not produce a drawing leaving out the ML307A/AP, so why was this model not mentioned in the drawing and why is this drawing not in the museum where the Air Force said it was obtained? It would appear that the preproduction models of the ML307B/AP are nothing but a red herring. Not only do these facts contradict the preproduction ML307B/AP models but they also put into question the validity of the flowered tape scenario because Professor Moore's historical account of the ML307 is not correct and neither is the Air Force's historical account. You would think that the Air Force would have have gotten the account right because there were training and technical manuals about the targets. If the accounts on basic historical development of the target are not correct, how can we accept that the rest of the information presented by Professor Moore and the Air Force as correct? We cannot. In an earlier posting it was mentioned that Mac had described that he had found flowered tape of some sort in the debris. Did he not also say that what he found was not any weather observation balloon? Does this not also concur with General Ramey's comment to Major Kirton, that none of the men on this base believe it was weather balloon debris. I do agree, lets stick with the facts but let's question the facts. I wonder if Professor Moore took into account the drag force induced from so many targets tied to one balloon train in his calculations. According to the ML307 training manual, "The drag due to pilot balloon target ML307 increases as it is supended at a greater distance from the balloon. This has the pronounced effect in decreasing the ascent rate". Reviewing the notes in his book, it does not appear to be mentioned. Is this an oversight? Best Regards, Andrew
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 2 Re: Mars The Amazing... - Stevenson From: Colin Stevenson <colin@c2k2.fsworld.co.uk> Date: Sat, 2 Aug 2003 08:16:55 +0100 Fwd Date: Sat, 02 Aug 2003 07:47:01 -0400 Subject: Re: Mars The Amazing... - Stevenson >From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker@earthlink.net> >To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2003 11:24:48 -0400 >Subject: Mars The Amazing... Hi Ray and List, There's far too many Pacman Munchies on that photo for it to be a 'proper job' :-) Incredible. Thanks Col
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 2 Houston British Columbia Reports From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO <hbccufo@telus.net> Date: Sat, 2 Aug 2003 00:33:28 -0700 Fwd Date: Sat, 02 Aug 2003 07:49:54 -0400 Subject: Houston British Columbia Reports Howdy List Just a add on here. I have been trying to keep up with so many Canadian sightings over the last little while, it isn't funny. They are coming in from mostly the western provinces for some strange reason. I still have a number of Terrace, B.C. sighting reports to report, even another from Thursday night. I have a number of calls to make to British Columbia witnesses, Alberta witnesses and folks from Saskatchewan. Right now I couldn't even begin to count how many reports I have to work on. So once I give my daughter away to her future husband, Saturday, things should get back to normal and I will catch up really quickly. Take care Brian Houston, British Columbia Date: July 31, 2003 Time: 11:30 p.m. Local Call. This reported sighting took place just over Houston, B.C. A Houston resident telephoned me today to explain what she saw out her bedroom window. The witness had jumped into bed ready for a night's sleep when something caught her attention, her bedroom window faced the northeastern portion of the sky. She saw a extremely bright white light flying at a low altitude and it shot across the sky. When she first noticed it, the light/object was traveling in a straight line, but then before she lost sight of it the object it zig zagged and disappeared. (The witness is going to give me a sketch of what the event looked like). No tail was observed trailing the object, no sound was heard as the witness said she had her window open due to it being very warm out. The witness said the object was approx: the size of her finger nail. Another interesting thing about this sighting was that the light/object had a number of lights running around the outside of it, and all white in color. The event lasted approx: 4 seconds. The sighting scared the witness enough that she had a hard time getting to sleep that night. Thank you to the lady who made the report. Brian Vike, Director HBCC UFO Research -------------- Houston, British Columbia Date: July 31, 2003 Time: approx: 11:35 p.m. Local Call. Another call came in today from two witnesses who reside just west of Houston, B.C. A husband a wife were out finishing up their farm chores when they both witnessed a bright white light moving quickly towards the northeast. They reported that the light was very low and flying over the town of Houston. I talked with the husband and he said the whole event lasted no more than a few seconds, but what caught them off guard was the fact that the light zig zagged low across the sky. He said it was the strangest thing, meaning they never witnessed anything like this due to the fact that the light moved so erratically and low in the sky. (HBCC UFO Note: I believe the two reports are certainly connected due to the explanation that was given in both reports. I will be talking more to both witnesses and gathering additional information on this event. Thank you to the folks for their report. Brian Vike, Director HBCC UFO Research Canadian Toll Free UFO Hotline 1 866 262 1989 - Free call. Editor: Canadian Communicator - Paranormal Magazine email: hbccufo@telus.net Website: http://www3.telus.net/public/wilbur8/hbcc_ufo_research.htm
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 2 Re: Mogul 4 That Never Was - Bourdais From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais@wanadoo.fr> Date: Sat, 2 Aug 2003 10:49:53 +0200 Fwd Date: Sat, 02 Aug 2003 07:52:56 -0400 Subject: Re: Mogul 4 That Never Was - Bourdais >From: Neil Morris <neil@adm1.ph.man.ac.uk> >To: ufoupdates@sympatico.ca >Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2003 17:48:57 +0100 >Subject: Re: Mogul 4 That Never Was >>From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais@wanadoo.fr> >>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >>Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2003 11:01:22 +0200 >>Subject: Re: Mogul 4 That Never Was >>Andrew, Neil and List, > >>You and Neil seem to question the story, as told by Moore, that >>the NYU team had brought targets with flowered tape. But you >>have not given any solid reason against that. >I thought my point about the fact that the NYU launches were >taking place _3_ years after the introduction of the type ML307 >target was sound enough. The ML307 was a use once and throw away >piece of equipment, how many thousands if not tens/hundreds of >thousands of these targets do you think the US military had gone >through in 3 years??, yet they'd held back a few boxes of "pre- >production" samples?? why?. It would have to have been more >than a few boxes to, remember before they came out to NM they >had also made launches on the east coast. >>On the contrary, it is a fact that Brazel, in his interview >>published by the Roswell Daily Record, did mention the recovery >>on June 14 of debris including flowered tape. This detail has >>been held up as the "smoking gun" for the Mogul 4 theory. >I agree it has, but don't take the RDR interview in isolation >and it's contents as gospel truth. It's highly likely the >details are what the military wanted Mack to say, he said as >much to Frank Joyce just later that same evening. You also have >to bare in mind the time that these events took place, it's a >fare guess that the RDR interview took place around 6 to 7pm, >this is long _after_ the cover story was launched in Fort Worth, >we know that was in place some time before 5.30pm FW time(4.30pm >Roswell time) and the AAF were actively debunking the story from >then on. To Neil, Stan and List, I will try to answer to your two messages at the same time. Yes, we can put in doubt many things, but we may also consider some problematic data, true or not, and try to explain them. - You put in doubt that the NYU team brought a left over stock of pre production of radar targets, with flowered tape, but we may also suppose that Moore did not invent the story and that it is true. - You put in doubt that the balloon cluster launched by NYU and Crary in the morning of June 4 would carry radar targets, but all the "best" sources (in the eyes of the skeptics: NYU Reports, Roswell Report, Moore, Pflock...) say that NYU launched everyday balloons clusters with radar targets. - You put in doubt that they would have used their stock of flowered tape targets, but I don't see any reason why not. - You put in doubt that Brazel found balloon and target debris on June 14, but why did he give that date? Why would he (or they) invent it? It does not make sense to invent it because it would not help the balloon cover up of the strange debris found at the beginning of July. On the contrary, it confirms that the balloon discovery had nothing to do with the debris field found at the beginning of July. - You put in doubt that Brazel found flowered tape. You find "highly likely" that the military told him. May be so, But what difference does that make for our little problem: flowered tape was found, and where did it come from? You suppose it may have come from the Mogul 11A, launched on July 7. According to the NYU Report, it landed 19 miles west of Roswell, but it did not carry any radar target ! It carried, like all Mogul flights since Mogul 5, a radiosonde for sending data. We agree that Mogul 4 was cancelled. Crary just wrote that. You agree that NYU launched instead a balloon cluster, but you put in doubt that it would carry radar targets. However, all sources describe them with radar targets. The only NYU balloon lanchings which may have carried flowered taped targets were small balloon clusters, such as described by all sources, above mentioned. See for instance the drawing of such a balloon cluster in the Roswell Report, just after Moore's testimony. It has three balloons and three targets. So, the whole flowered tape story has to come from the launchings of small balloon clusters with radar targets. Not from any Mogul flight. It seems obvious to me and I still hope that you will agree. In short, the balloon story is even more preposterous with a small balloon cluster than it was with a "huge" balloon train. Now, you throw in the Kellahin testimony, but it is the most highly dubious of all testimonies. It is contradicted by all other witnesses, including his photographer Robin Adair. It seems well established that Whitmore Sr went to the Foster ranch on Monday, came back to Roswell with Brazel, recorded an interview of him (which he was forbidden to broadcast), brought him to the base on Tuesday morning, where Brazel told them his whole story. Kellahin was most probably the victim of a staged showing of debris along the road, in the area of the Foster ranch. This has nothing to do with the flowered tape problem. It is one of the episodes of the balloon cover-up put in place during the day. BTW, in his book "Case MJ-12" (page 51), Kevin Randle reveals that he interviewed in 1976 a former sergeant who told him that he had participated in a ufo cover-up with balloons and radar reflectors, that he had "trucked into town. And that was in Roswell. But he did not mention flowered tape, and so it does not help solve the problem. Anyway, we have enough information to consider the problem solved. Best regards, Gildas Bourdais
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 2 Re: Mind Control Expert & Greer Strange Bedfellows From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> Date: Sat, 2 Aug 2003 07:50:34 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 02 Aug 2003 08:32:27 -0400 Subject: Re: Mind Control Expert & Greer Strange Bedfellows >From: Wendy Connors <FadedDiscs@comcast.net> >To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2003 16:18:27 -0600 >Subject: Re: Mind Control Expert & Greer Strange Bedfellows >>From: Eleanor White <eleanor@raven1.net> >>To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2003 16:29:36 -0400 >>Subject: Re: Mind Control Expert & Greer Strange Bedfellows >>>From: Wendy Connors <FadedDiscs@comcast.net> >>>To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>>Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 11:59:09 -0600 >>>Subject: Re: Mind Control Expert & Greer Strange Bedfellows ><snip> >>Must work. How else to explain people flocking around Dr. Greer, >>shelling out hundreds, for the privilege of standing out in the >>sticks with a flashlight, hoping the space people will flick >>their Bic's in acknowledgment. >>Boggles the rational mind. >>>If UFO occupants are willing to communicate by blinking lights, >what is rational about ignoring that avenue of communication? >>>I thought the idea of ufology is to learn the truth. >The science of Ufology covers both the search for truth and >untruth. The reality of UFOs are documentable and have been. As >to your belief that they have occupants, there is not a shred of >physical evidence to support this, as yet. >How many trips does Greer need to take to the boondocks, brain >dead people in tow, to have convinced everyone by now that this >method is bogus. >Probably better not to bottom feed for answers using >flashlights. I think the broader question here is whether or not there is any scientific justification to believe that "UFO occupants are willing to communicate by blinking lights". This would seem to indicate knowledge of the "occupants" as well as their intent or purpose, which is something that Dr. Greer claims (at least by implication). "CE-5 : Close Encounters of the Fifth Kind" by Richard Haines is about reports "of deliberate human behavior which was followed by an obvious response from an unidentified object and/or humanoid. The response of the craft or being included effects suggesting its response was not merely coincidental." [stolen from a review on Amazon.com] My personal concern regarding this work is the reliance that Haines has placed on data that was gathered and archived by CSETI. How well vetted this information is has been tainted, IMO, by Dr. Greer's association with it. So I have to question how solid the foundation for this work is. Of course, this really points to the fact that ufology remains a public 'interest area' and not (by any stretch of the imagination) a 'scientific discipline'. Steve
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 2 Re: Mind Control Expert & Greer Strange Bedfellows From: Wendy Connors <FadedDiscs@comcast.net> Date: Sat, 2 Aug 2003 07:13:24 -0600 Fwd Date: Sat, 02 Aug 2003 09:20:03 -0400 Subject: Re: Mind Control Expert & Greer Strange Bedfellows >From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> >To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >Date: Sat, 2 Aug 2003 07:50:34 -0400 >Subject: Re: Mind Control Expert & Greer Strange Bedfellows >>From: Wendy Connors <FadedDiscs@comcast.net> >>To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2003 16:18:27 -0600 >>Subject: Re: Mind Control Expert & Greer Strange Bedfellows >>>From: Eleanor White <eleanor@raven1.net> >>>To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>>Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2003 16:29:36 -0400 >>>Subject: Re: Mind Control Expert & Greer Strange Bedfellows >>>>From: Wendy Connors <FadedDiscs@comcast.net> >>>>To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>>>Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 11:59:09 -0600 >>>>Subject: Re: Mind Control Expert & Greer Strange Bedfellows >>><snip> >Of course, this really points to the fact that ufology remains >a public 'interest area' and not (by any stretch of the >imagination) a 'scientific discipline'. >Steve Hi Steve, Ufology does, indeed, resemble a public "interest area". Then again, so do many other sciences. Although I'd agree that Ufology has yet to attain the level of "scientific discipline", I'd argue the fact that all sciences were, at one time, a general "public interest area", but evolved to become a science that was taught and practiced... which Ufology will follow in time. I'd almost be willing to bet a nickel that the current musings, from other sciences about a strong possiblility of life on Mars, etc., came about from the "public interest area" and the musings found in the core belief of Ufology that we are not alone. It was the public interest area that battled science over the belief of life elsewhere in the universe. Yet, once life is detected beyond our planet, Ufology will be ignored as the moving force behind the possibility that life exists elsewhere. Time, I believe, to give Ufology some serious due by 'legitimate science', which has been 'in default' (Dr. James McDoanld) for a very long time. Legitimate science was born from an idea or belief in something beyond current knowledge. Ufology's rise among the masses is the first step in legitimizing it as a science and teaching it makes it a viable by giving it an intellectual avenue for evolution into final legitimacy. For what it's worth. Wendy Connors
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 2 Re: Mind Control Expert & Greer Strange Bedfellows From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> Date: Sat, 2 Aug 2003 09:49:16 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 02 Aug 2003 10:09:38 -0400 Subject: Re: Mind Control Expert & Greer Strange Bedfellows >From: Wendy Connors <FadedDiscs@comcast.net> >To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Sat, 2 Aug 2003 07:13:24 -0600 >Subject: Re: Mind Control Expert & Greer Strange Bedfellows >>From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> >>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >>Date: Sat, 2 Aug 2003 07:50:34 -0400 >>Subject: Re: Mind Control Expert & Greer Strange Bedfellows <snip> >Ufology does, indeed, resemble a public "interest area". Then >again, so do many other sciences. Although I'd agree that >Ufology has yet to attain the level of "scientific discipline", >I'd argue the fact that all sciences were, at one time, a >general "public interest area", but evolved to become a science >that was taught and practiced... which Ufology will follow in >time. >I'd almost be willing to bet a nickel that the current musings, >from other sciences about a strong possiblility of life on Mars, >etc., came about from the "public interest area" and the musings >found in the core belief of Ufology that we are not alone. It >was the public interest area that battled science over the >belief of life elsewhere in the universe. Yet, once life is >detected beyond our planet, Ufology will be ignored as the >moving force behind the possibility that life exists elsewhere. >Time, I believe, to give Ufology some serious due by 'legitimate >science', which has been 'in default' (Dr. James McDoanld) for a >very long time. Legitimate science was born from an idea or >belief in something beyond current knowledge. Ufology's rise >among the masses is the first step in legitimizing it as a >science and teaching it makes it a viable by giving it an >intellectual avenue for evolution into final legitimacy. >For what it's worth. Hi Wendy, I would certainly agree with you 100%. However, other areas of interest have rarely become belief structures that, at times, resemble religion (as opposed to science), which is one of the problems I think ufology has to deal with. That's not to say that other sciences are all united under one banner and that there aren't fringe areas of each that are often shunned by the mainstream. In that respect, I don't think that ufology has evolved that much differently than some of the sciences we accept as disciplines today. All this being said, I've broken one of my own rules in speaking of science as a "thing", as opposed to a "process"..... <g> ------ On a side note to the List, I'll be away from my computer for a week beginning on Monday, as I travel to a Conference in Utah. I'm not sure if I'll be able to check my email while I'm away, and won't have time for many responses if I can. Steve
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 2 Re: Mind Control Expert & Greer Strange Bedfellows From: Eleanor White <eleanor@raven1.net> Date: Sat, 02 Aug 2003 10:41:06 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 02 Aug 2003 10:46:54 -0400 Subject: Re: Mind Control Expert & Greer Strange Bedfellows >From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> >To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >Date: Sat, 2 Aug 2003 07:50:34 -0400 >Subject: Re: Mind Control Expert & Greer Strange Bedfellows <snip> >My personal concern regarding this work is the reliance that >Haines has placed on data that was gathered and archived by >CSETI. How well vetted this information is has been tainted, >IMO, by Dr. Greer's association with it. So I have to question >how solid the foundation for this work is. The current day human "scientific method" has a major flaw which will prevent substantial advances, until this flaw is acknowledged and addressed. "Scientific method" disallows the study of any phenomenon which cannot be repeated by everyone who tries, and faithfully provides the original setup conditions. Russian and Czech scientists spent millions of rubles during the cold war, in twenty major institutes, studying the military potential of psychic effects. Public testimony by first hand Russian and Czech witnesses to this program, as well as psychic researchers and authors who travelled to the former Soviet block, has been ridiculed and ignored here in the West. This is another area, like UFOs, in which progress is being held back by ridicule and denial of funds. (At least denial of funds in the unclassified arena.) Until the seniour Western scientists and grant givers admit to the flaw in their protocols, phenomena like flashlight communicating with UFOs, (or in fact the study of UFOs themselves,) will always remain a "fringe issue". Meanwhile, I congratulate people like Dr. Greer for at least doing some experimentation with this phenomenon. Eleanor White
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 2 Faded Disc Project Update From: Wendy Connors <FadedDiscs@comcast.net> Date: Sat, 2 Aug 2003 09:12:25 -0600 Fwd Date: Sat, 02 Aug 2003 11:21:45 -0400 Subject: Faded Disc Project Update Greetings to the Listarians: In the past year the Faded Discs Project is nearing completion of audio recordings dealing with Ufology from 1938 to 1959. Two types of recordings are archived. First are whole recordings and the second is sound bytes from various whole recordings. One set is in regular audio format and the other is in MP3 format for archival purposes and back-up. Two methodologies are currently being undertaken for MP3 sound bytes of relevant quotes, etc., which will allow me to fullfil requests from researchers via email attachments. This saves me money and time duplicating a whole recording. Let's face it folks, this project is very expensive to develop due to many of the recordings being on obsolete recording formats, which range from wire recordings to 16" transcription discs and everything in between. Also, it takes a great deal of time to clean up the recordings as much as possible, since old formats tend to deteriorate over time... especially tape recordings. Secondly, in collaboration with Errol Bruce-Knapp, we are attempting to offer researchers various audio clips via EBK's radio program, 'Strange Days...Indeed'. Errol and I present a selection of audio clips once a month on the program, which can be recorded OTR or downloaded to your computer. Well over 200 recordings comprise the years 1938-1959. It is/was a monumental undertaking and the years 1960-1978 have yet to be completed. So, completion of the recording archive at Faded Discs will take a few more years. Of course there are always new discoveries being made, but the bulk of 1938-1959 recordings have been preserved digitally. A full accounting of the recordings will be posted this fall on UFO Updates and other lists. Two versions will be offered. Recordings listed by date and recordings listed alphabetically. Both lists will contain whole recordings and selected sound clips. Perhaps one of the greatest gifts from digital recording is that generational sound loss from tape recordings being duplicated, is a thing of the past. Copies made from digital recordings are exactly the same as the original, regardless of the number of copies made, with no sound loss. Although there is debate about digital recordings in music lacking warmth, it is an ideal medium for spoken word recordings. The audio project is very time consuming to accomplish and I have been at it for several years without a break. Following my appearance on 'Strange Days... Indeed' tonight, I will be taking a long deserved vacation from the project to recharge my batteries and give my ears a rest. Therefore, I will be on vacation immediately following the show and will return on August 27th. A big thank you to everyone who supports the project and have sent in their recordings for inclusion into the largest UFO audio database in the world from 1938 to 1978. Many wonderful recordings to come! Don't forget to tune in to Strange Days...Indeed! tonight. Errol and I are going to explore UFO and Alien sounds from early Ufology. http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/sdi/program/sdi2003.html Wendy Connors Faded Discs Project Founding Member: Sign Historical Group Regular Contributor: Strange Days...Indeed! Co-Author: "Alfred C. Loedding and the Great Flying Saucer Wave of 1947" and "Captain Edward J. Ruppelt: Summer of the Saucers - 1952" (available from Amazon.com).
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 2 Non-Abductees Anonymous From: Terry Groff <terry@terrygroff.com> Date: Sat, 2 Aug 2003 10:20:25 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 02 Aug 2003 12:12:05 -0400 Subject: Non-Abductees Anonymous Hi listers Todd Lemire of Michigan UFOs turned me on to this link. It is hilarious! Just click on 'Watch Film' in the left menu. http://atomfilms.shockwave.com/af/content/non_abductees Terry
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 2 Re: Mind Control Expert & Greer Strange Bedfellows From: Wendy Connors <FadedDiscs@comcast.net> Date: Sat, 2 Aug 2003 09:22:56 -0600 Fwd Date: Sat, 02 Aug 2003 12:18:13 -0400 Subject: Re: Mind Control Expert & Greer Strange Bedfellows >From: Eleanor White <eleanor@raven1.net> >To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >Date: Sat, 02 Aug 2003 10:41:06 -0400 >Subject: Re: Mind Control Expert & Greer Strange Bedfellows >>From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> >>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >>Date: Sat, 2 Aug 2003 07:50:34 -0400 >>Subject: Re: Mind Control Expert & Greer Strange Bedfellows <snip> >>Until the seniour Western scientists and grant givers admit to >>the flaw in their protocols, phenomena like flashlight >>communicating with UFOs, (or in fact the study of UFOs >>themselves,) will always remain a "fringe issue". Ufology is only a "fringe issue" with scientists and skeptics who proclaim it to be so and haven't looked at the documentation and physical evidence garnered over 63 years, let alone do full research into the phenomena. That's why Dr. James McDonald claimed science was in default. And he was dead center on target with his condemnation of science's failure to undertake the research. >Meanwhile, I congratulate people like Dr. Greer for at least >doing some experimentation with this phenomenon. >Eleanor White Dr. Greer has done considerable damage to this field of research and deserves only scorn by _rational_ researchers. Wendy Connors
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 2 Re: Mogul 4 That Never Was - Bourdai From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais@wanadoo.fr> Date: Sat, 2 Aug 2003 18:50:02 +0200 Fwd Date: Sat, 02 Aug 2003 18:33:19 -0400 Subject: Re: Mogul 4 That Never Was - Bourdai >From: Andrew Lavoie <lavoiea@rogers.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >Date: Sat, 2 Aug 2003 01:26:01 -0300 >Subject: Re: Mogul 4 That Never Was >>From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais@wanadoo.fr> >>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >>Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2003 11:01:22 +0200 >>Subject: Re: Mogul 4 That Never Was >>The question of wether it was correct or not to call them ML- >>307B, or whatever, does not make any difference at all. > >>Best regards, >Gildas and List, >The question of whether it was correct or not to call them the >ML307B does make a difference. <snip> >We know for a fact that the ML307A/AP existed, of which there is >no mention either by the Professor and nor is it listed on the >Signal Corps drawing. So how could there be preproduction models >of the ML307B/AP originating from the ML307/AP and by-passing >the fact that the ML307A/AP was in full production. <snip> >Not only do these facts contradict the preproduction ML307B/AP >models but they also put into question the validity of the >flowered tape scenario because Professor Moore's historical >account of the ML307 is not correct and neither is the Air >Force's historical account. Andrew and List, I am willing to believe that professor Charles Moore made mistakes. Actually, I am convinced that his Mogul 4 story is all wrong : there was no Mogul 4 flight! However, I am not sure to understand your logic here. I don't see why the fact that the ML 307A/AP was in production in 1944 prevented to study improvements, in a sort of "pre production" model for the ML307B/AP. Why not? Would it suit you better if we call it a prototype series or some sort ? <snip> >In an earlier posting it was mentioned that Mac had described >that he had found flowered tape of some sort in the debris. Did >he not also say that what he found was not any weather >observation balloon? Does this not also concur with General >Ramey's comment to Major Kirton, that none of the men on this >base believe it was weather balloon debris. I think you are mixing together different things here. The fact that we have to explain is that Brazel described flowered tape. Here is a question now: if there was no flowered taped targets around, where did that come from? An economic answer is that, yes, there were such targets, and Brazel found one. But it is no proof at all of Mogul 4. It was, most probably, from a modest balloon cluster. Now, the fact that Brazel said it was not a weather balloon may be explained in various ways: it was perhaps a little act of rebellion at the end of his interview, like his alleged mention of "little green men" to Frank Joyce, according to him. Or perhaps he just meant that this balloon debris was somewhat different. As for the words of General Ramey to Major Kirton, I am quite ready to believe that he said that. But why do you mix that with the flowered tape problem? It would just mean that Ramey allowed himself a little personal comment, at one point, about the cover-up. BTW, could you give the source of that information ? I don't know it. Best regards, Gildas Bourdais
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 2 Re: Mind Control Expert & Greer Strange Bedfellows From: Michael Briggs <mbriggs@ku.edu> Date: Sat, 2 Aug 2003 12:24:03 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 02 Aug 2003 18:37:46 -0400 Subject: Re: Mind Control Expert & Greer Strange Bedfellows >From: Wendy Connors <FadedDiscs@comcast.net> >To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Sat, 2 Aug 2003 07:13:24 -0600 >Subject: Re: Mind Control Expert & Greer Strange Bedfellows >>From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> >>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >>Date: Sat, 2 Aug 2003 07:50:34 -0400 >>Subject: Re: Mind Control Expert & Greer Strange Bedfellows <snip> >>Of course, this really points to the fact that ufology remains >>a public 'interest area' and not (by any stretch of the >>imagination) a 'scientific discipline'. >Ufology does, indeed, resemble a public "interest area". Then >again, so do many other sciences. Although I'd agree that >Ufology has yet to attain the level of "scientific discipline", >I'd argue the fact that all sciences were, at one time, a >general "public interest area", but evolved to become a science >that was taught and practiced... which Ufology will follow in >time. >I'd almost be willing to bet a nickel that the current musings, >from other sciences about a strong possiblility of life on Mars, >etc., came about from the "public interest area" and the musings >found in the core belief of Ufology that we are not alone. It >was the public interest area that battled science over the >belief of life elsewhere in the universe. Yet, once life is >detected beyond our planet, Ufology will be ignored as the >moving force behind the possibility that life exists elsewhere. >Time, I believe, to give Ufology some serious due by 'legitimate >science', which has been 'in default' (Dr. James McDoanld) for a >very long time. Legitimate science was born from an idea or >belief in something beyond current knowledge. Ufology's rise >among the masses is the first step in legitimizing it as a >science and teaching it makes it a viable by giving it an >intellectual avenue for evolution into final legitimacy. >For what it's worth. To Fellow Listers: Somewhat related to Wendy's remarks, as well as to Jerry Clark's recent comments, I came across the following statement while watching THE DAY THE EARTH STOOD STILL (1951) last night. In one scene, scientist Jacob Barnhardt (Sam Jaffe), who's been recruited by the humanoid alien Klaatu (Michael Rennie) to help persuade world leaders to change their ways, says: "It isn't faith that makes good science. It's curiosity." What's so curious to me is how mainstream science has been able to ignore for so long that basic (and very logical) tenet in regards to UFOs and related phenomena. Anyway and for what it's worth..... Michael Briggs
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 2 Re: Non-Abductees Anonymous - Velez From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> Date: Sat, 2 Aug 2003 14:07:56 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 02 Aug 2003 18:39:50 -0400 Subject: Re: Non-Abductees Anonymous - Velez >From: Terry Groff <terry@terrygroff.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Sat, 2 Aug 2003 10:20:25 -0500 >Subject: Non-Abductees Anonymous >Todd Lemire of Michigan UFOs turned me on to this link. It is >hilarious! Just click on 'Watch Film' in the left menu. >http://atomfilms.shockwave.com/af/content/non_abductees Hello Terry, Drop dead funny! Made me split my sides. Mel Brooks couldn't have written better material. Regards, John Velez
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 2 Italian UFO Newsflash No. 401 From: Edoardo Russo <e.russo@cisu.org> Date: Sat, 02 Aug 2003 16:31:35 +0200 Fwd Date: Sat, 02 Aug 2003 19:05:51 -0400 Subject: Italian UFO Newsflash No. 401 ITALIAN UFO NEWSFLASH ISSUE NO. 401 - 18 JULY 2003 by the Italian Center for UFO Studies (Centro Italiano Studi Ufologici, CISU) - Italian Sightings: The First Half Of This Year - An Italian College Thesis On UFOs - The Transfer of the Clypeus Archives ITALIAN SIGHTINGS: THE FIRST HALF OF THIS YEAR The coordinated efforts of the informatic working group on the Italian case files, developed by the Italian Center for UFO Studies, have produced a new update of the statistics concerning the reports of sightings of UFO and para-UFO phenomena in Italy, the end result being an in-depth recap of the last six months, as well as a comparison with the last few years. The month of June featured the bursting onto the scene of numerous findings of "circular traces" in crop fields, some of these directly correlated with UFO reports. Thanks also to these cases (16 out of 47), the month of June indicates a further increase, if compared with previous months; thus, the initial half of 2003 is shaping up to be on a level comparable with 2000 (224 reports) even if it still trails behind the corresponding six-month periods for the years 2001 and 2002. The regional statistics have also been influenced by the "crop circles": the region with the greatest contribution for June is Tuscany (10 cases, 4 of which involved circles), followed by Piedmont and Marche (6 cases each, 2 and 3 involving the circles, respectively). The "wave" of circles has also had an obvious bearing on the "para-ufological" category (28 cases out of 51, i.e. 55%) and on other statistics for the six-month period. Among the strictly ufological cases of major interest during this last month: a disc-shaped object observed at close-range in Florence on 7 June; a triangular object seen on the same day in the province of Verbania; and a sort of "missile" observed by a pilot who was flying over the area of Benevento on 24 June. Complete lists of the cases and detailed statistics will be made available (as always) on the Website of the Italian Center for UFO Studies over the next few days. [Communication by Giorgio Abraini] AN ITALIAN COLLEGE THESIS ON UFOS In the wake of theses at the graduate level, we now also have got an Italian college thesis on UFOs. "The UFO Phenomenon" is the title of the interdisciplinary thesis CISU junior member Dario Giacometto was put to the test by the Enzo Ferrari Technological & Scientific Institute in Turin. The challenge consisted in the drawing up, based on our argument, of a multimedia text that would touch upon the various subjects of study over the last year of high school: Italian and English languages, as well as the areas of philosophy, computer technology, physics and chemistry were brilliantly incorporated by Dario, thanks to the documentation given to him by CISU and the assistance of senior CISU member Matteo Leone (Ph.D. and a high school physics teacher himself). [Collaboration by Dario Giacometto and Matteo Leone] THE TRANSFER OF THE CLYPEUS ARCHIVES One year to the date following the relocation of the "Vesco Archives" to the site of the new headquarters of the Italian Center for UFO Studies, on 10 July the transfer to the central CISU archives of an additional piece of Italian ufological history was concluded. Seven people, 1 van and 2 cars loaded onto racks have, in fact, finally relocated the "Clypeus Archives": the huge collection of press clippings, letters, books, and specialized journals and magazines (for the most part from overseas) which Gianni Settimo and the collaborators of the Centro Studi Clipeologici (later the "Clypeus Group") had accumulated over a forty-year period going back to the year 1949. Over the course of this summer, once again, this documentation will continue to be reorganized and added to our central files. Collaborators on this edition were: Giorgio Abraini, Dario Giacometto and Matteo Leone. - - - This is the English translation of UFOTEL, a free phone/Internet information service on UFOs edited weekly by Edoardo Russo for the Italian Center for UFO Studies (Centro Italiano Studi Ufologici), available in Italian by calling +39-011-545294, or by e-mail subscription, or on CISU website at http://www.arpnet.it/ufo/ultime.htm UFOTEL is a supplement to "UFO - Rivista di informazione ufologica", published by the Italian Center for UFO Studies, registered at Tribunale di Torino, No. 3670, on 19 June 1986. Director: Giovanni Settimo. Publisher: Cooperativa UPIAR, Corso Vittorio Emanuele 108, 10121 Turin, Italy Translated from Italian to English by: Gary J. Presto, Freelance Italian>English Translator & Proofreader 44 Bickford Ave., Apt. 2 Revere, MA 02151 USA Tel.: ++1.781.485.1683 FAX: ++1.781.485.1684 E-mail: gpresto@comcast.net Webpage: http://www.proz.com/translator/723 - - - (c) 2003 by: CISU, Corso Vittorio Emanuele 108, 10121 Torino, Italia This newsletter (as a whole or in part) may be freely copied, photocopied, reproduced, stored, distributed and retrieved, at the only condition that Centro Italiano Studi Ufologici is reported as the source. You may get it directly via e-mail by subscribing (just send a blank message to: cisuflash-subscribe@yahoogroups.com) The CISU is a no-profit association whose aims are: - to promote the scientific study of UFO phenomena in Italy; - to help circulate information about UFO phenomena and studies; - to coordinate national activities of data collecting and studying. You may reach Centro Italiano Studi Ufologici: - by mail: CISU, Corso Vittorio Emanuele 108, 10121 Torino, Italia - by phone: +39 (011) 30.78.63 (24 hours UFO Hotline) - by fax: +39 (011) 54.50.33 - by Internet e-mail: cisu@ufo.it - at the World Wide Web URL: http://www.cisu.org
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 2 Re: Mind Control Expert & Greer Strange Bedfellows From: Tom DeMary <t.demary@earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 2 Aug 2003 17:10:49 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 02 Aug 2003 19:08:20 -0400 Subject: Re: Mind Control Expert & Greer Strange Bedfellows >From: Eleanor White <eleanor@raven1.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >Date: Sat, 02 Aug 2003 10:41:06 -0400 >Subject: Re: Mind Control Expert & Greer Strange Bedfellows ><snip> >The current day human "scientific method" has a major flaw which >will prevent substantial advances, until this flaw is >acknowledged and addressed. "Scientific method" disallows the >study of any phenomenon which cannot be repeated by everyone > who tries, and faithfully provides the original setup conditions. I think that you mischaracterize the scientific method, which has been working pretty well to differentiate between unproven claims and communal knowledge. Science does not disallow the study of phenomena which cannot be repeated by anyone who tries; it requires that experiments which are repeated give the same results to anyone who tries. Scientists use observations, their own, those of colleagues, those of long deceased colleagues, and even those from failed experiments, to gain insight and propose theories of how things work. As Steven Kaeser wrote said, science is a process. Given the egos, agendas, and temperaments of very human scientists, it is a disorderly process. Mistakes are made and, sometimes, a grand old man of science can be as wrong as any fool on the internet. Nevertheless, the requirement for reproducible results eventually corrects the errors and misconceptions of science. This requirement is what makes scientific inquiry different from religious and philo- sophical inquiry; it is purposeful and not a fault. Tom DeMary
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 2 Re: Mind Control Expert & Greer Strange Bedfellows From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net> Date: Sat, 02 Aug 2003 15:56:37 -0700 Fwd Date: Sat, 02 Aug 2003 19:11:16 -0400 Subject: Re: Mind Control Expert & Greer Strange Bedfellows >From: Wendy Connors <FadedDiscs@comcast.net> >To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Sat, 2 Aug 2003 07:13:24 -0600 >Subject: Re: Mind Control Expert & Greer Strange Bedfellows >>From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> >>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >>Date: Sat, 2 Aug 2003 07:50:34 -0400 >>Subject: Re: Mind Control Expert & Greer Strange Bedfellows >>>From: Wendy Connors <FadedDiscs@comcast.net> >>>To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>>Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2003 16:18:27 -0600 >>>Subject: Re: Mind Control Expert & Greer Strange Bedfellows >>Steve >Hi Steve, >Ufology does, indeed, resemble a public "interest area". Then >again, so do many other sciences. Although I'd agree that >Ufology has yet to attain the level of "scientific discipline", >I'd argue the fact that all sciences were, at one time, a >general "public interest area", but evolved to become a science >that was taught and practiced... which Ufology will follow in >time. >I'd almost be willing to bet a nickel that the current musings, >from other sciences about a strong possiblility of life on Mars, >etc., came about from the "public interest area" and the musings >found in the core belief of Ufology that we are not alone. It >was the public interest area that battled science over the >belief of life elsewhere in the universe. Yet, once life is >detected beyond our planet, Ufology will be ignored as the >moving force behind the possibility that life exists elsewhere. >Time, I believe, to give Ufology some serious due by 'legitimate >science', which has been 'in default' (Dr. James McDoanld) for a >very long time. Legitimate science was born from an idea or >belief in something beyond current knowledge. Ufology's rise >among the masses is the first step in legitimizing it as a >science and teaching it makes it a viable by giving it an >intellectual avenue for evolution into final legitimacy. >For what it's worth. Hello Wendy: I intended to write in an say "I agree' which is dull, but somebody or something just ate about a pound of pork ribs. I swear to and/or at you all. One minute I a'm roasting the dirty litle commies, the next moment they are gone! I know it was not a Bradley military vevicle because they leave so much noise. I know it was not a star beacause stars are more polite. I know it was not a Chinese kite because it is way past their bed-time. -LH
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 3 Re: Non-Abductees Anonymous - Groff From: Terry Groff <terry@terrygroff.com> Date: Sat, 2 Aug 2003 18:12:01 -0500 Fwd Date: Sun, 03 Aug 2003 12:59:50 -0400 Subject: Re: Non-Abductees Anonymous - Groff >From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Sat, 2 Aug 2003 14:07:56 -0400 >Subject: Re: Non-Abductees Anonymous >>From: Terry Groff <terry@terrygroff.com> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Sat, 2 Aug 2003 10:20:25 -0500 >>Subject: Non-Abductees Anonymous >>Todd Lemire of Michigan UFOs turned me on to this link. It is >>hilarious! Just click on 'Watch Film' in the left menu. http://atomfilms.shockwave.com/af/content/non_abductees >Hello Terry, >Drop dead funny! Made me split my sides. Mel Brooks couldn't >have written better material. >Regards, >John Velez I kept looking for contact information. I need to join. :-) Was that cow really holding a sign that said "Mutilate me"? Terry
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 3 Re: Mind Control Expert & Greer Strange Bedfellows From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2003 07:38:07 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 03 Aug 2003 13:03:25 -0400 Subject: Re: Mind Control Expert & Greer Strange Bedfellows >From: Michael Briggs <mbriggs@ku.edu> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >Date: Sat, 2 Aug 2003 12:24:03 -0500 >Subject: Re: Mind Control Expert & Greer Strange Bedfellows <snip> >To Fellow Listers: >Somewhat related to Wendy's remarks, as well as to Jerry Clark's >recent comments, I came across the following statement while >watching THE DAY THE EARTH STOOD STILL (1951) last night. In one >scene, scientist Jacob Barnhardt (Sam Jaffe), who's been >recruited by the humanoid alien Klaatu (Michael Rennie) to help >persuade world leaders to change their ways, says: >"It isn't faith that makes good science. It's curiosity." >What's so curious to me is how mainstream science has been able >to ignore for so long that basic (and very logical) tenet in >regards to UFOs and related phenomena. >Anyway and for what it's worth..... IMO, I believe that mainstream science tends be very bureaucratic and conservative. Throughout history I believe you can show that major shifts in theories have been accepted only after many years of scorn and rejection. Einstein's theories were highly controversial when first suggested, and today some of them are being called into question by further shifts in our understanding. "Curiosity" is probably the driving force behind the scientific question, but I wouldn't define it as what makes for "good" science (which is a process not a thing to behold). I also believe you'll find that there are a number of scientists who have an interest relation to the mystery of UFOs, but what you won't find is the bureaucratic/establishment support that you would need to fund research and publish papers on the subject. I would further speculate that the disarray we see in this field, highlighted by the many tangents that each small segment often promotes, makes it very difficult to attain general respectability and acceptance. Steve
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 3 Argentine Fear & Mystery Over Meteorite From: Scott Corrales <lornis1@earthlink.net> Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2003 10:25:37 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 03 Aug 2003 13:05:37 -0400 Subject: Argentine Fear & Mystery Over Meteorite DATE: August 2, 2003 FEAR AND MYSTERY IN THE SOUTH OVER METEORITE THAT FELL IN FIELD Walter Aquindo--Corresponsalia Sur It was only a few minutes past 2 a.m. when the sky lit up over southern Mendoza province. A powerful light that blinded any who dared look at the object crossing the sky turned from whitish blue to fiery red and in a matter of seconds, resulted in a powerful explosion followed by an expansion wave that travelled for hundreds of kilometers. The detonation was even heard in southern San Luis province. Sanrafaelinos, alevearenses and malarguinos woke up in fright, all of them fearing an earthquake. Others, on the other hand, whose eyewitness accounts were heard on southern radio stations all morning, were privileged witnesses to an unprecedented event for this sector of Mendoza: a meteorite crash. According to specialists, the meteorite fragmented upon entering into Earth's atmsophere and scattered over the broad southern landscape. Yesterday, everyone discussed the event and could not cease being amazed. In schools, coffeehouses, businesses and in every street corner and in the remotest parts, the event became the day's subject of conversation. Radio stations in the three departamentos featured southerners discussing their experiences. Several described an object that crossed the sky at high speed and fell to earth. Others even managed to see the object breaking into pieces--like some youngsters from Carmensa (Alvear)-- but all agreed in pointing out that the incandescence that almost hurt the eyes was followed by a powerful explosions. The phenomenon, which until last night was a source of doubt and mystery, shall be studied from the air by scientists from the Instituto de Astronom=EDa Cop=E9rnico, located in Rama Ca=EDda, and memebrs of the Malargue-based Proyecto Pierre Auger. There are doubts about its trajectory. With the eyewitness accounts provided, astronomers began working on a probable trajectory and fragmentation prior to striking the earth's surface. But they have no doubts about confirming that "it was a meteor. We now have to find the point of impact," said Jaime Garc=EDa, Ph.D in Astronomy and head of the Instituto Copernico. Based on initial findings, they believe that two main fragments fell to earth. One of them, according to eyewitness accounts, fell between Sierra Pintada and Los Reyunos in San Rafael province. The other impacted the Cordilleran region near Agua Escondida, southeast of Pata Mora, department of Malargue. To substantiate this, they base themselves upon the account provided to LV4 Radio San Rafael by Jesus Antonio Medina, a water driller who conducts his work in the wilderness and who saw at that time "a potent white, yellow and blue light. When the object fell, something like an intense fire was seen, followed by a powerful explosion." However, police officers from the Pata Mora barracks (Malargue) conducted a broad survey of the area, including interviews with some local ranchers, and no one could ascertain the account. Yesterday afternoon, negotiations were underway to fly over the areas in question. The Proyecto Pierre Auger was trying to secure photographs from SAC-2, the Argentinean scientific satellite, to obtain the precise locations or coordinates. Jaime Garc=EDa stated: "all objects that fall to Earth are designated meteors. When they explode in the air prior to striking the ground they are known as aeroliths, and if they fall directly to Earth and leave large craters they are termed meteorites." According to initial finds, the phenomenon would fall into the first category, which is to say, an aerolith. However, the scientist from San Rafael supposes that certain pieces hit the ground and these shall be looked for in the early hours when the aerial survey commences. "We certainly won't see large craters, but we will see black circles or burned earth around the object. The high temperature with which they fall, and the dryness of the region, would have caused some fires that will be easily visible from the air." =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Translation (C) 2003 Scott Corrales Institute of Hispanic Ufology Special thanks to Gloria Coluchi
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 3 No Traces of Meteorite Found In Argentina From: Scott Corrales <lornis1@earthlink.net> Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2003 11:27:18 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 03 Aug 2003 13:07:58 -0400 Subject: No Traces of Meteorite Found In Argentina SOURCE: Diario "Los Andes" (Mendoza Province) Argentina DATE: August 3, 2003 NO TRACES OF METEORITE FOUND Despite the fact that an extensive region from San Rafael to Malargue was combed by air - reaching the border with Neuquen province - no traces were found of the meteorite which plunged to Earth in the early hours of Friday morning in southern Mendoza. The failed mission nonwithstanding, the head of the Instituto Cop=E9rnico, Jaime Garc=EDa--a renown scientist and astronomre-- claims having no doubt that something fell from space: "If we didn't find it today, will continue looking in other areas we didn't survey," he said. Aboard the aircraft and with maps in hand, Garcia and Hector Correa, the local Civil Defense coordinator, instructed pilot Juan Pablo Mortarotti as to the possible trajectory of the meteorite. They went by the eyewitness accounts of those who saw the object. Since most claimed the fall occurred in the vicinity of Agua Escondida (Malargue), they flew to that region. "We covered a broad swath of 20 km plus some 200 km in a straight line east of Route 180. We reached Pata Mora (border with Neuqu=E9n province). Upon returning, we did so along the eastern slopes of the El Nevado mountain, even seeing the Agua del Toro reservoir, but could see nothing." However, one thing is clear: if the object fell to earth, it did so in Mendozan territory. Residents of Rincon de los Sauces (Neuquen) neither heard nor saw anything. They plan to fly again on Monday, employing an Air Force helicopter this time, to have greater maneuverability. They will try to reach two regions where accounts suggest the object may have crashed: between Sierra Pintada and the Reyunos Reservoir, or to the west of the El Nevado mountain. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Translation (C) 2003 Scott Corrales Institute of Hispanic Ufology Special thanks to Gloria Coluchi
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 4 Re: Non-Abductees Anonymous - Hatch From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net> Date: Sun, 03 Aug 2003 14:08:34 -0700 Fwd Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2003 13:11:55 -0400 Subject: Re: Non-Abductees Anonymous - Hatch >From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Sat, 2 Aug 2003 14:07:56 -0400 >Subject: Re: Non-Abductees Anonymous >>From: Terry Groff <terry@terrygroff.com> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Sat, 2 Aug 2003 10:20:25 -0500 >>Subject: Non-Abductees Anonymous >>Todd Lemire of Michigan UFOs turned me on to this link. It is >>hilarious! Just click on 'Watch Film' in the left menu. >>http://atomfilms.shockwave.com/af/content/non_abductees >Drop dead funny! Made me split my sides. Mel Brooks couldn't >have written better material. Hi John, Terry .. Yes its funny. At last a group for the large numbers of people like myself, with no abduction experience at all. Maybe they don't like beer drinkers. Best! - Larry
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 4 "Keel Is Dead"? From: Loren Coleman <lcolema1@maine.rr.com> Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2003 04:54:36 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2003 13:14:25 -0400 Subject: "Keel Is Dead"? I write biographies. I enjoy following the people in our field. I like to celebrate folks' achievements, as well, through their obituaries. Therefore, I often serve as a lightning rod for death news and questions about who is still with us, it appears. That's okay. One outcome is that it translates into lots of emails filled with questions. Literally hundreds a day. I get routinely those like the email that came in over this first weekend of August 2003: "Didn't John Keel die recently?" "Well, no, not as far as I know," I replied. I am left pondering, once again, why is it that people think Keel is dying all the time? As some of you know, this rumor can get out of hand online, as it did on January 14, 2002, when a story rapidly circulated that John A. Keel had just died. I quickly reached Keel, and confirmed that he was, indeed, still alive. Keel told me that this happened to him at least once before, in 1967. Of course, this kind of hearsay about Keel has picked up since the Mothman movie came out last year, so I guess I shouldn't be surprised. Nevertheless, John A. Keel is 73, and last I heard, still very much alive, just in case anyone asks you today. Cheers, Loren
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 4 'Decoded' Message From Alien Crop Glyph From: Eleanor White <eleanor@raven1.net> Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2003 09:27:38 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2003 13:25:37 -0400 Subject: 'Decoded' Message From Alien Crop Glyph Remember that alien face crop glyph with a 'digital disc' glyph beside it? That is referred to as the Crabwood glyph. For those who would like to see the original image, I have it saved on my site at this direct link: http://www.raven1.net/crabwood.jpg Last night's (August 3-4, 2003) guest on Coast to Coast AM was Marshall Masters, who has worked as an engineer and scientist, and more recently has become a researcher and author on anomalies which point to advanced and covered up phenomena. His web site is: http://www.yowusa.com A page from that site now shows the result of an analysis by a Maurice Osborn who, starting from the center of the spiral stream of bits, applied the PC (commonly called ASCII) binary code set to the bit stream, and came up with this translation of the message: "Beware the bearers of FALSE gifts & their BROKEN PROMISES. Much PAIN but still time. BELIEVE. There is GOOD out there. We OPpose DECEPTION. COnduit CLOSING," Those familiar with the ASCII code set know that there are separate codes for upper case letters and lower case letters, and the capitalization above appears to be intended by the non- human writers. Mr. Masters stated that the glyph was analyzed on site and found to have the radiused stalk bends and careful interweaving of laid-over stalks which indicate a glyph of non- human origin. The direct link to that descriptive page is: http://www.yowusa.com/Archive/May2003/crabwood4/crabwood4.htm In case that page becomes unavailable I also have saved that page, text without images, to my site directly: http://www.raven1.net/crabwood4.htm Eleanor White
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 4 Re: Mind Control Expert & Greer Strange Bedfellows From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy@charter.net> Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2003 07:21:54 -0700 Fwd Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2003 13:29:00 -0400 Subject: Re: Mind Control Expert & Greer Strange Bedfellows >From: Wendy Connors <FadedDiscs@comcast.net> >To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Sat, 2 Aug 2003 09:22:56 -0600 >Subject: Re: Mind Control Expert & Greer Strange Bedfellows >>From: Eleanor White <eleanor@raven1.net> >>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >>Date: Sat, 02 Aug 2003 10:41:06 -0400 >>Subject: Re: Mind Control Expert & Greer Strange Bedfellows <snip> >>Meanwhile, I congratulate people like Dr. Greer for at least >>doing some experimentation with this phenomenon. >Dr. Greer has done considerable damage to this field of research >and deserves only scorn by _rational_ researchers. Hello, all. I am an experiencer - Greer made a mess of research, his efforts at "disclosure" are nothing but a circus. While there may be some genuine, sincere people involved with him, the surreal, bizzare, nature of his efforts (including his ufological 'snipe hunts') are not to be given credibility by any serious person. What I would like are answers, not someone's own politcal, socilogical, take on the subject that is only wild speculation. GT McCoy
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 4 Secrecy News - 08/04/03 From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood@fas.org> Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2003 11:38:44 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2003 13:31:21 -0400 Subject: Secrecy News - 08/04/03 SECRECY NEWS from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy Volume 2003, Issue No. 66 August 4, 2003 ** CURRENT INTELLIGENCE BUDGET IS NOT SUSTAINABLE ** INTELLIGENCE REFORM BILL INTRODUCED ** A BILL TO REVOKE THE BUSH ORDER ON PRESIDENTIAL RECORDS ** PRESSURE TO DECLASSIFY THE "28 PAGES" BUILDS ** IN THE NEWS: NRO, POLYGRAPH ** INTELLIGENCE BUDGET DISCLOSURE - IN THE NETHERLANDS CURRENT INTELLIGENCE BUDGET IS NOT SUSTAINABLE The Bush Administration's proposed intelligence budget for the coming year anticipates large future increases in intelligence spending that are unlikely to be achieved, according to the chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee. "There is clearly not enough money in future years to fully fund the intelligence programs in this year's budget request," said Sen. Pat Roberts (R-KS) last week. "That is the sad reality of this budget." In an attempt to evade and obscure this reality, intelligence agencies are low-balling the future costs of their programs, he said. "The magnitude and consistency in the cost growth on recent acquisitions indicates a systemic intelligence community bias to underestimate the cost of major systems." But the fact remains that "Too many projects and activities have been started that cannot be accommodated in the top line." The Senate Intelligence Committee therefore cut a number of unspecified programs from next year's budget. "It is our hope that some of the additional programs we were forced to cut can be funded through alternative means," Sen. Roberts said during the Senate's consideration of the Intelligence Authorization Act for FY 2004. See the Senate debate on the 2004 intelligence bill here: http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/2003_cr/s073103.html INTELLIGENCE REFORM BILL INTRODUCED Three Democratic Senators introduced a bill to enact many of the recommendations of the recently published report of the congressional joint inquiry concerning the September 11 attacks. Among other things, "The 9-11 Memorial Intelligence Reform Act" would establish a cabinet-level Director of National Intelligence who would have enhanced authority over the entire intelligence bureaucracy. See this July 31 news release from Sen. Bob Graham: http://www.fas.org/irp/news/2003/07/bg073103.html A BILL TO REVOKE THE BUSH ORDER ON PRESIDENTIAL RECORDS Senators Jeff Bingaman (D-NM) and Bob Graham (D-FL) introduced a bill to revoke President Bush's November 2001 executive order that imposed new restrictions on public access to presidential records from past administrations. The Bush order "greatly restricts access to Presidential papers by forcing all requests for documents, no matter how innocuous, to be approved by both the former President and current White House. In this way the order goes against the letter and the spirit of the Presidential Records Act," said Sen. Bingaman on July 31. The new bill, which corresponds to similar legislation introduced by Rep. Doug Ose in the House, would rescind the Bush order and restore the procedures established by President Reagan in 1989. See: http://www.fas.org/sgp/congress/2003/s1517.html A lawsuit brought by historians and others challenging the order is still pending. PRESSURE TO DECLASSIFY THE "28 PAGES" BUILDS Forty-six Senators have signed a letter to President Bush calling on him to declassify portions of the 28 pages from the congressional report on September 11 concerning possible foreign support for the 9/11 attack. The letter, circulated by Senators Charles Schumer (D-NY) and Sam Browback (R-KS), potentially sets the stage for unilateral congressional action to disclose portions of the classified pages, pursuant to Senate Rule 400. A majority vote would be required to disclose the material over Presidential objections. See this August 1 release from Sen. Schumer: http://www.fas.org/irp/news/2003/08/cs080103.html IN THE NEWS: NRO, POLYGRAPH The National Reconnaissance Office, the intelligence agency that builds and operates the nation's spy satellites, is "in crisis," according to a rather devastating account in U.S. News and World Report. "Despite its $7 billion annual budget, its satellites don't always work as promised. Its projects run billions in the red and years behind schedule. Some national security experts say the place just doesn't work." See "Lack of Intelligence" by Douglas Pasternak, U.S. News and World Report, August 11: http://www.usnews.com/usnews/issue/030811/usnews/11nro.htm The article echoes some of the complaints that were presented a year ago by aerospace industry CEO Dave Thompson here: http://www.fas.org/irp/eprint/thompson.html "The Truth About Polygraphs" - that is, their unreliability and the government's continuing reliance upon them - is the subject of a long article by Charles P. Pierce in the Boston Globe Sunday magazine, August 3. See: http://www.boston.com/globe/magazine/2003/0803/coverstory_entire.htm INTELLIGENCE BUDGET DISCLOSURE - IN THE NETHERLANDS In last week's vote on the 2004 intelligence authorization bill, Senator John D. Rockefeller IV (D-WV) recalled that "Ten years ago this November, I joined a majority of Senate colleagues in voting to express the sense of Congress that the aggregate amount requested, authorized, and spent for intelligence and intelligence-related activities should be disclosed to the public in an appropriate manner. The House opposed the provision." "I continue to believe we should find a means, consistent with national security, of sharing with the American taxpayer information about the total amount, although not the details, of our intelligence spending," Sen. Rockefeller added. But he did not suggest what "means" he had in mind, nor did he offer a legislative proposal to translate his "belief" into action. In a growing number of other countries, however, including Canada and the United Kingdom (Secrecy News, 6/12/03), there is less hand-wringing about intelligence budget disclosure and more accountability. They don't talk about it much, they just do it. The Netherlands is another example. In the latest annual report of the country's General Intelligence and Security Service (AIVD), newly published in English, annual intelligence expenditures are presented without any fuss (see pp. 71-72): http://www.fas.org/irp/world/netherlands/aivd2002.pdf _______________________________________________ Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the Federation of American Scientists. To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to secrecy_news-request@lists.fas.org with "subscribe" in the body of the message. OR email your request to saftergood@fas.org Secrecy News is archived at: http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html _______________________ Steven Aftergood Project on Government Secrecy Federation of American Scientists web: www.fas.org/sgp/index.html email: saftergood@fas.org voice: (202) 454-4691
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 4 Early 19th Century Virginia Alien? From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2003 09:50:46 -0700 Fwd Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2003 13:32:57 -0400 Subject: Early 19th Century Virginia Alien? List, I've added the following curiousity to my website other research section: http://www.roswellproof.com/19th_century_virginia_alien.html This depicts a pattern punched into an 1858 pie safe from western Virginia, which, according to oral tradition, is of an alien that visited the area earlier in the century. The author (a Virginia historian) notes coming across the pattern on a total of five such pie safes, 3 dated, 2 not dated. This antique documents that tales of alien visitation certainly predate the mid-20th Century by a wide margin. Furthermore, the pattern is of a large-eyed alien (it reminds me of a praying mantis head). Yet the psycho-social theorists claim that such reports were nonexistent until such critters were first depicted in sci-fi films and TV shows of the 1950s. Other than that, not much can be said. So far I haven't been able to get further information from the author. By chance, I saw an old high-school acquaintance a few days ago who has lived in Virginia for 30 years and was familiar with the area (Wythe and Washington counties). For what it's worth, she told me it is a poor, coal-mining area, people there tend to be very "hardscrabble," realistic and straight-forward, and not prone to making up stories like this. She thought it almost inconceivable that anybody in the 19th century from that region could have even dreamt this up. Thanks go to my wife, who noticed this photo while researching early, eastern seaboard arts and crafts (particularly punched tin designs). Though only "tolerant" of my own offbeat research interests, she too found this interesting. David Rudiak
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 4 More Mutilated Cows In Argentina From: Scott Corrales <lornis1@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2003 13:05:10 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2003 13:35:14 -0400 Subject: More Mutilated Cows In Argentina SOURCE: Diario Rio Negro On-Line DATE: August 4, 2003 MORE MUTILATED COWS DISCOVERED CHOELE CHOEL (AVM)-- Three cows mutilated in a "mysterious" fashion were found yet again in the Valle Medio region mid-week. A veterinarian mentioned the discovery of an animal very near a ranch in the area known as Negro Muerto. The animal was missing its tongue, an eye, udders and its genitalia. This is the third case in a number of days. In the middle of last month, in the location known as Cha=F1ares Altos, three cows were found--each missing an eye and with their tongues cut. Several theories emerged last year on the subject. From the purely specialized, scientific perspective, some veterinarians, who in most cases did not see the discoveries for themselves, stated that these were natural deaths and the mutilations were the result of predator damage. Others insisted that a rodent was culpable. These ideas clashed with the beliefs of certain local residents, as well as those of professionals which have been unable to come up with a logical explanation for these cases, even over time. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Translation (C) 2003 Scott Corrales Institute of Hispanic Ufology Special thanks to Gloria Coluchi
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 4 Kecksburg Site Of Documentary From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2003 13:41:28 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2003 13:41:28 -0400 Subject: Kecksburg Site Of Documentary Source: The Tribune Review - Pittsburg, Pennsylvania http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/tribune-review/entertainment/s_147756.html 08-02-03 Kecksburg Site Of Documentary By Ann Saul Dudurich Tribune-Review Cameras will be rolling in Kecksburg today as the Sci Fi Channel continues production of its two-hour investigative documentary, "The New Roswell: Kecksburg Exposed." In an effort to shed light on the uncertain events of Dec. 9, 1965 -- when some people claim an unidentified flying object came to Earth in the Mt. Pleasant Township community -- the cable channel will sponsor what it bills as a "town meeting" at 10 a.m. in the Kecksburg fire hall. Bryant Gumbel, former host of "Today" and "The Early Show," will serve as moderator for the "open dialogue," said Larry Landsman, director of special projects for Sci Fi. "There will be a number of witnesses there, including a number of new witnesses who have just recently come forward," he said. "There will also be those present who claim nothing at all happened that night." [UFO UpDates thanks www.http://anomalist.com for the lead]
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 4 'It Had To Be A UFO' From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2003 13:48:43 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2003 13:48:43 -0400 Subject: 'It Had To Be A UFO' Source: The Times - Munster, Indiana http://www.thetimesonline.com/articles/2003/08/02/sports/top_sports/3ccb7900ab41 c13186256d75007bc1a1.txt 08-02-04 'It Had To Be A UFO' Baseball is full of strange stories -- but they might all be trumped by a ball that disappeared in Key West almost 29 years ago By Ryan O'Leary Times Sports Writer It is not yet known at what point the citizens of Key West opted to repeal the laws of gravity that govern the rest of us. But it appears the decision was made on or before Aug. 6, 1974. It was on that day that America's southernmost community apparently opted to spit in Sir Isaac Newton's face. On that serene and surreal evening, the forces of nature (and perhaps some other forces, depending on whom you ask) converged with our national pastime on the corner of the Bermuda Triangle, crafting a moment that, in terms of sheer oddity, may have no peer in baseball lore. Some eyewitnesses have told the story hundreds of times to thousands of people. Most listeners refuse to believe it. Reporters and baseball historians have never taken it seriously enough to run with it -- perhaps in part because one of those present doesn't recall it even happening. Can't really blame any of them. The tale is, in a word, unbelievable. And it's been buried among baseball's most obscure X-Files for nearly 29 years. But apparently, it did happen. It was, at first, a typical Tuesday evening at Wickers Field, a quirky quadrangular bandbox with room for 1,000 spectators. The Key West Conchs, a Class A Cubs affiliate with the worst record in professional baseball (32-79) at the time, were hosting the St. Petersburg Cardinals in a Florida State League game. The Cards came in at 55-57, led by a can't-miss prospect by the name of Garry Templeton. The Conchs managed a 7-4 victory on this night, scoring three runs in the bottom of the eighth to secure the win for pitcher Donnie Moore in his final game with the team. Strangely enough, nobody in attendance can remember that part. Most of the players don't even remember who won the game. But they remember Newton being exposed as a Floridian fraud. By the time the first pitch was thrown, twilight and fog had joined in a slow dance above the islands, creating a backdrop that St. Petersburg left fielder Ernie Rosseau still describes as "eerie." Considering the ghost stories that have come out of Key West over the years, eerie may have been par for the course. Only one reporter was at Wickers that evening -- Eric Lincoln of the St. Petersburg Times. Since his account of this event, a three-paragraph aside in a larger piece on the Key West baseball experience, is the only one known to exist, we'll let him tell the tale. We join Lincoln in the bottom of the first inning, with Lonny Kruger on the mound for the visitors: ...Joe Wallis, the Key West right fielder, hits a high fly ball that seems to be drifting toward the glove of the Cardinal right fielder, John Crider. But the wind is gusting at more than 20 knots and the ball seems to disappear as it falls into its final closing arc. Crider ducks. He has lost sight of the ball. Jimmy Williams, the Cardinal second baseman, races to his assistance. He ducks, placing both hands over his head for protection. The center fielder, Claudell Crockett, is on the scene with his hands held outward as if to say, 'Well, where the hell is it?' Templeton, now the manager of the Gary SouthShore RailCats, was playing shortstop for St. Petersburg that day. He was among those who drifted toward the play to provide assistance -- or try to. "I took off running for it because I thought I had a shot at it," Templeton said. "It was like a popup to right center. Next thing I know, everyone's running around like chickens with their heads cut off." Wallis, meanwhile, doesn't hear an umpire call the ball foul, and he sees no one make a play, so he tentatively makes his way around the bases. He crosses home plate with nine frantic Cardinals flapping their wings behind him. Nobody ever saw the ball come down. "It was a weird feeling," Kruger said. "The second baseman's thinking he's going to have a play, the right fielder's thinking he's going to have a play, and the guy winds up getting a home run out of it." Home run? The baseball was nowhere to be found -- so the umpires convened and handed down their ruling based on what little evidence they had: Wallis circled the bases safely, nobody caught the ball and nobody saw it go foul. Home run. While Key West players rolled around their dugout in laughter, according to Rosseau, the Cardinals argued against the call. Despite a lengthy plea, the case was thrown out. "There was a big argument," Templeton said. "The players were arguing pretty good and our manager went berserk. ... I don't have a damn clue where it went, but it wasn't a home run." To this day, no one has stepped forward to explain where the ball landed -- if it ever did. Wickers was surrounded by a macadam parking lot, some scrub oak and a few palm trees. Nobody heard a kerplunk, a splat, the rustle of branches or the shattering of glass. People searched the area all evening and found nothing. "Nobody knows what happened," said Rosseau, now the baseball coach at Brevard Community College in Florida. "From the fans to the coaches, umps. ... No one knew. "They estimated that it went out of the park, but that's impossible." "Players don't just go toward a ball, where they think it's going to land, and nothing lands," agreed teammate Tito Landrum, who later won back-to-back World Series rings with St. Louis and Baltimore. So where did the ball go? "It went up and never came down," Rosseau said. "Nobody can give me an explanation." There may be no legitimate explanation, but everyone has theories. "It had to be a UFO that got that ball," Templeton said. Or maybe a ghost? If you believe local residents, that wouldn't be a first. During the game, Lincoln recalls speaking with Dr. Julian DePoo, an elderly Cuban expatriate and a friend of Key West's favorite son, Ernest Hemingway. DePoo was the Conchs' owner. "Papa has that ball," the old man told Lincoln, referring to the legendary author. "His spirit is everywhere around here. He took that one home." Someone -- or, more likely, something -- took that ball. But who, or what? And where did they take it? "Obviously, when you think of Key West, you think of the Bermuda Triangle," Rosseau said. And when you think of the Bermuda Triangle, you think of strange disappearances. This would certainly seem to qualify as such. But with Wickers set almost one mile inland, it's not possible. Or is it? None of the eyewitnesses recall a particularly windy evening -- but keep in mind that these folks are half a lifetime removed from that night. The mind tends to collect dust over the long haul. So when Lincoln's account, which ran a mere 12 days after the fact, says that winds were gusting at 20 knots, it's fair to assume that this is close to the truth. One of the writer's theories was that trade winds took the ball out to sea. Officials at the National Weather Service in Key West, none of whom were willing to put their speculations on the record, said that Lincoln's thought was a bit far-fetched. Then again, it's no more of a stretch than any other possibility. Eyewitness accounts and hypotheses differ -- but there is one common thread that ties everyone's memories together. Everybody who remembers what happened at Wickers Field that August evening, without exception, still says that it was the most peculiar thing they ever saw in their baseball lives. "It's hard to top that in terms of weirdness," Kruger said. "It had to be the strangest thing I've ever seen," Templeton agreed. "Nothing even comes close," Rosseau added. Which might be why this story has gone nearly 29 years without being printed -- no one else believes it. Unless they were there to see it, that is. "I was mentioning the story once in the dugout in St. Louis," Landrum said. "No one believed me. And then a voice comes from the other side of the dugout. 'It happened. I was there.'" Landrum's Cardinal teammate, Bruce Sutter, verified the story. Sutter was in the Key West dugout when it happened. Had he not spoken up, Landrum may have been hauled out of St. Louis in a straitjacket. Oddly enough, Lincoln's Key West feature devoted more time to Moore's departure than it did to Wallis' eternal popup. But in a way, that makes sense. The story, much like the ball itself, has essentially remained hidden for the better part of three decades, and a lot of memories have faded over time. Landrum recalls playing center field that day for the Cards. But both of the box scores in existence -- from the St. Petersburg Times and the Key West Citizen -- have Landrum in the dugout. Crockett was in center. Key West manager Q.V. Lowe doesn't even remember the incident at all. Some pieces of the puzzle were forgotten immediately. The Citizen's game story on August 7 said that Wallis' homer cleared the right-field wall, but according to everyone else involved, the ball never got there. Key West's story has no byline -- again, the only reporter in attendance was Lincoln -- so the best guess is that the Citizen made one assumption too many from reading a press release. The Times ran a very brief account of the game on Aug. 8, with no mention of the disappearing ball. Only in Lincoln's Key West feature, which didn't go to press until Aug. 18, is the story documented. And it hasn't been told in full until now. "Obviously, not too many people saw it," Kruger said. "If it had happened in the major leagues, it would be a very different story." Instead, it happened at a Florida State League game in front of fewer than 1,000 people. But it's still a very different story. Ryan O'Leary can be reached at roleary@nwitimes.com or (219) 933-3245. [UFO UpDates thanks www.http://anomalist.com for the lead]
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 4 Circles Drawing Hundreds To Ontario Farm From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2003 13:52:40 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2003 13:52:40 -0400 Subject: Circles Drawing Hundreds To Ontario Farm Source: Canada.Com http://www.canada.com/search/story.aspx?id=470f1b3a-7549-4d75-a692-371dd3747120 08-04-03 Mysterious Crop Circles Drawing Hundreds To Southern Ontario Farm Canadian Press Saturday, August 02, 2003 Credit: Canadian Press HENSALL, Ont. (CP) -- Hundreds of people are flocking to a southern Ontario farm to inspect something they've only seen in the movies -- crop circles. Erv Willert says the elaborate geometric signs appeared in his 16-hectare wheat field on Wednesday evening, and he doesn't think anybody in the area is responsible. "There's nobody with enough energy to do this," he said. "They'd get one circle done and lay down and have a beer." When told by a farm worker about the strange shapes in the field, Willert said he replied, "What's a crop circle?" Willert said he isn't entirely amused by the strange shapes, which include two circles with a 15-metre radius, but he's having fun with his visitors. "It was pretty unexplainable, I guess," said Mike Klaassen, a local resident who took in the spectacle on Friday. "It's all mathematically proportional, so it's pretty crazy." According to those who study crop circles, the ones in Hensall are as legitimate as they come. As the Ontario field co-ordinator for the Canadian Crop Circle Research Network, Joanna Emery travels around the province checking out crop-circle sightings. Having seen the shapes at Willert's farm, Emery said they have all the earmarks of a natural design. "This is something that's virtually impossible to hoax because the plant has been changed at a cellular level," said Emery, noting the plant is bent at the base but not broken. "This is quite possibly a genuine one. It definitely deserves more investigation." Willert has no theories about the origin of the circles. "I really haven't had time to think about it, (but) you couldn't do this at night and I don't know how someone would have enough nerve to do it during the day." Copyright 2003 Times Colonist (Victoria) [UFO UpDates thanks www.http://anomalist.com for the lead]
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 4 Circling Aliens In City Park From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2003 13:56:25 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2003 13:56:25 -0400 Subject: Circling Aliens In City Park Source: Hillsboro Banner - Hillsboro, Montana http://www.hillsborobanner.com/8_2_03/alienspark.htm 08-02-03 Circling Aliens In Hillsboro's City Park There are, of course, any number of logical and reasonable explanations for the phenomena occurring at Hillsboro's Woodland Park. Jim Kress is having none of it; he's suspects aliens are responsible for the circles of green grass in the north end of the city park. "The aliens are moving in." Harry Eisenbeis isn't ready yet to confirm friend Jim Kress' suspicions. "Jim knows a lot about the park and growing grass," says Harry, "but I don't know how much he knows about aliens." Harry smiles at Jim's sidelong questioning glance. "And I don't know," Harry explains, "that aliens can make grass grow." But it is strange, he allows. Four circles are grouped between the park's north shelter and the sand volleyball square. A fourth circle is east of the paved road heading north from Hillsboro, not far from the burn pile the park has stacked on its northeast corner. The circles range from 3 ft. to 30 ft. wide; the circling outside band of greener grass is about 12 inches wide. The smaller circles are more perfect in diameter and design, the larger circles more irregular. Again, there can be any logical explanations for the circle phenomena. Kids, offers some. An attempt to fertilize the ground and grass that went astray in a circular way, say others. Dogs, claimed a few. "A fungus amongst us," said an authority on grasses. Mother Nature works in mysterious ways, said another Hillsboro resident. Perhaps, it was hinted, that root systems of trees that were removed are the cause of the circles. Jim Kress has his theory. It's aliens, he warns. "If Harry and I come up missing," he said, "you'll know what got us." [UFO UpDates thanks www.http://anomalist.com for the lead]
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 4 Raelian Leader Booted From Incheon Airport From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2003 14:02:28 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2003 14:02:28 -0400 Subject: Raelian Leader Booted From Incheon Airport Source: The Chosun Ilbo - Seoul, South Korea http://english.chosun.com/w21data/html/news/200308/200308030023.html 08-03-03 Raelian Leader Booted From Incheon Airport by Hong Won-sang (wshong@chosun.com) Rael, the founder of Clonaid and of the Raelian Movement, which caused a furor last year after claiming to have cloned a human, was denied entry to South Korea on Saturday. The Law Ministry's Immigration Office said Sunday that Rael and his wife, De Niverville Sophie, arrived at Incheon International Airport on Korean Air flight 074 from Toronto on 2:17 a.m. Saturday. The immigration office did not permit the couple to leave the airport. An official from the Law Ministry said Rael's entry was rejected according to a request from the Ministry of Health and Welfare that Rael be prevented from visiting Seoul. The ministry reportedly believed he might try to clone humans if allowed into the country. Rael departed to Tokyo over Korean Air flight 703 at 11:20 a.m. on Saturday, and arrived at Montreal on Sunday. Rael said he is a religious leader unrelated to Clonaid and threatened to sue the South Korean government for violating his human rights. He also claimed that the South Korean members of the Raelian Movement would demonstrate in front of the Health and Welfare Ministry. Korea has about 4,000 members of the Raelian Movement. Rael was a former car racer in France. He founded the Raelian Movement in 1973, whose members say mankind originated from UFOs, and established Clonaid, a human-cloning company, in 1993. [UFO UpDates thanks www.http://anomalist.com for the lead]
The UFO UpDates Archive Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 4 Re: "Keel Is Dead"? - Friedman From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys@rogers.com> Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2003 14:31:21 -0300 Fwd Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2003 14:09:36 -0400 Subject: Re: "Keel Is Dead"? - Friedman >From: Loren Coleman <lcolema1@maine.rr.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2003 04:54:36 -0400 >Subject: "Keel Is Dead"? >I write biographies. I enjoy following the people in our field. >I like to celebrate folks' achievements, as well, through their >obituaries. Therefore, I often serve as a lightning rod for >death news and questions about who is still with us, it appears. >That's okay. >One outcome is that it translates into lots of emails filled >with questions. Literally hundreds a day. I get routinely those >like the email that came in over this first weekend of August >2003: >"Didn't John Keel die recently?" >"Well, no, not as far as I know," I replied. >I am left pondering, once again, why is it that people think Keel is dying >all the time? >As some of you know, this rumor can get out of hand online, as >it did on January 14, 2002, when a story rapidly circulated that >John A. Keel had just died. I quickly reached Keel, and >confirmed that he was, indeed, still alive. Keel told me that >this happened to him at least once before, in 1967. >Of course, this kind of hearsay about Keel has picked up since >the Mothman movie came out last year, so I guess I shouldn't be >surprised. >Nevertheless, John A. Keel is 73, and last I heard, still very >much alive, just in case anyone asks you today. Twice now I have had people call and tell me they were sure that Betty Hill had died. In each case I called and talked to Betty, who was very much alive. I also recall being told years ago, that Phil Klass had died. He denied it on the phone when I called.... Must be some kind of new disease deathitis... "Inflamation" of death.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 4 Kecksburg UFO Debate Renewed From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2003 14:14:16 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2003 14:14:16 -0400 Subject: Kecksburg UFO Debate Renewed Source: The Tribune-Review - Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/tribune-review/westmoreland/s_147868.html 08-03-03 Kecksburg UFO Debate Renewed By Ann Saul Dudurich What really happened in the twilight skies over Kecksburg on Dec. 9, 1965 has been the subject of controversy for nearly 38 years. Did something actually land in the Mt. Pleasant Township community? If so, what was it? A meteorite? A Russian satellite? An experimental American aircraft? A UFO? The visible, armed military presence that night and subsequent government secrecy have fueled the uncertainty, many say. Still others say, "What uncertainty? Nothing happened that night." In an effort to encourage an open dialogue among first-hand witnesses and those who remain skeptical, the Sci Fi Channel sponsored a "town hall meeting" Saturday at the Kecksburg fire hall. About 50 people attended. Bryant Gumbel, former co-host of "Today" and "The Early Show," was on hand to serve as moderator. The meeting - an "historic" event, said Greensburg UFO investigator Stan Gordon - was organized and filmed by the cable channel as part of an investigative documentary titled, "The New Roswell: Kecksburg Exposed." The two-hour special, produced by MPH Entertainment, Inc., and hosted by Gumbel, is scheduled to air 9 p.m. Oct. 17. After a brief on-camera introduction, Gumbel turned his attention to Chuck Hilland, Jr., whose family has long maintained nothing happened that night. "I was only 2 at the time, so I can't confirm or dispute anything that happened," he said, adding his father was working that night and didn't get home until after midnight. His mother didn't leave the house. "All I can tell you is my parents really believe nothing significant happened that night," he said. In 1965, John Hays, now of New Florence, was living in a farmhouse close to the scene. As a 10-year-old, he thought all the activity was "exciting ... like a big party." And even though he was told to go to his room, Hays said he tried to sneak downstairs frequently to get a look at all the members of the military and officials from the National Aeronautics and Space Administration who were gathering at his house. Hays said he later saw a flat-bed truck emerging from the site near his house carrying something the "size of a VW." "I'm here today because I really want to find out what's going on," Hays said before the meeting. "I've thought about this a lot over the years. Most of the people who deny anything happened are land owners. It's made me wonder what they were promised, or what they were threatened with." Michael Slater, then 14 and living in Kecksburg, was outside with his brother that evening when a military jeep pulled up. The two boys were asked to assist with "crowd control." If anyone asked for directions to the crash site, they were to give them the wrong directions. "We had fun sending people all over the place," he said, adding the men in the jeep told them they were "doing a service for your country." Slater said he and his brother later saw a flat- bed truck emerge from the woods, carrying an object covered by a tarp. Don Sebastian, who lived in Johnstown at the time, was in the area visiting friends when they heard the radio report that something had crashed near Kecksburg. They jumped in the car, only to be turned away by armed state police, he said. But determined to find out what was going on, Sebastian persisted, sneaking around the roadblock and heading back toward the scene. "I saw a line of soldiers down in the clearing ... best guess, maybe 100 guys ... armed at hip level and walking single file parallel to the crash site," he said prior to the meeting. "It looked like a drill. Perfect formation. Nobody out of step." Until they heard a scream, he said. "This was a terror scream, and it made the hair on the back of my neck stand up," he said. After a minute or two, he heard another scream. "It didn't sound human," he said. "That's when I lost my nerve. I figured this was a place where I could get shot. So, I was out of there." "The Army was definitely there. It's irrefutable. I saw them," said Dave Newhouse, a teenager at the time. When he and a friend tried to sneak into the woods, they were stopped by an Army guard. "He pointed his rifle at me and said get out," Newhouse said before the meeting. "So, something was definitely there. I don't have any idea what it was, but the Army doesn't come out to guard a patch of woods." Gumbel wanted to know where the heck was the media during all this? Bob Gatty, a reporter for the Tribune-Review at the time, had just gotten back into the office after covering a meeting. His city editor told him, "Don't sit down. I've got the story of the century for you. A UFO just landed in Kecksburg." Gatty drove out to the site, and upon arrival, was met by a lot of "military types." "I couldn't get any answers," Gatty said. "I tried to go down into the woods, and a cop told me, `You can't go down there.' And I said, `What if I do?' And he said, `You'll be arrested.'" John Sibal, of Trauger, said he tracked the object that night as it changed directions three times before crashing into the woods. "It had to be controlled by someone to do that," he said, adding he hid in the woods for more than an hour upon finding the crash site. Finally, after the military had gathered, Sibal claims he saw a hand come out of the flat top of the fallen object. "See, you're laughing," Sibal said to Gumbel, citing ridicule as the reason he hadn't come forward sooner. Turning to Gatty, Gumbel asked why he hadn't interviewed any of these people that night? "If I'd seen any of these people, I would have had the story of the century," said Gatty, laughing. "OK, who of you think this is all a bunch of hooey?" Gumbel asked the group. "I do," said Linda Kovacina, whose husband, George, owns the farm next to the Hilland property. George did not attend the town meeting. "Do you think these people are making all this up?" Gumbel questioned, to which Kovacina had no reply. Ray Howard, of Kecksburg, expressed doubt that any flat-bed truck would be able to get in and out of such a steep ravine. "There's no way," he said with emphasis. "They couldn't have gotten within 500 feet of that thing." "So, these people are making this up?" Gumbel asked again. "I don't know. It's just hard to believe," said Howard. "It's no use having these meetings. They don't do any good," Sibaldaid, adding if the government isn't forthcoming with classified information, "you can throw all this stuff out the window." Ann Saul Dudurich can be reached at adudurich@tribweb.com or 724-837-4378. [UFO UpDates thanks www.http://anomalist.com for the lead]
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 4 UFO Fans To Alight Near Hooper From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2003 14:15:56 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2003 14:15:56 -0400 Subject: UFO Fans To Alight Near Hooper Source: The Pueblo Chieftain - Colorado 08-03-03 UFO Fans To Alight Near Hooper By Erin Smith HOOPER - When Judy Messoline went to Saguache County Commissioners almost four years ago with an unusual request, it was mostly out of frustration. Messoline lives in an area where strange things are seen in the heavens - or at least there are people claiming that. She would wake up finding people camped in her front yard looking for UFOs and alien beings. She decided to do something about it so she asked the commissioners to allow her to build a UFO Watchtower and campground on her property about 2 miles north of Hooper along Colorado 17. That way she could exact payment from people who otherwise would be camping on her land. Since opening the UFO Watchtower in May 2000, Messoline has become a celebrity. She has been interviewed by reporters from all over the world. Last year she decided to hold a UFO conference - or whatever one calls such events-at her establishment. This year, she noted, she has more to offer conference attendees. She has added a rock garden celebrating three vortexes that several psychics say are in her front yard. UFO fanatics and the just-plain curious can sit in her yard, look at the rocks and distant Sangre de Cristos, where so much is said to happen, and sip soda. The conference, to be held Saturday and Aug. 10, will be from noon to whenever. And it's free. At noon on Saturday, Messoline will welcome her guests and tell them the history of the UFO Watchtower. At 1 p.m. a woman named Tammy who says she was whisked aboard a UFO will tell her story. The speaker at 2 p.m. is hypnotherapist Gloria Hawker. Salida resident Tim Edwards, who took what is regarded as some of the most amazing videotape of a UFO flying over Colorado's mountains, will speak next. Edwards and his video have appeared on a host of television shows. The footage shows a spinning, brightly colored disc photographed from a side angle. At 4 p.m., paranormal investigator Joe Fex will talk. There will be a dinner break from 5 p.m. to 7 p.m. followed by a talk by nationally known alien abductee Jane Smith, Messoline said. Chuck Zukowski and Debbie Zieglemeyer, who are involved in the 2003 Roswell dig, will speak at 8:30 p.m. At 10 p.m. the "Watch" for the unexplained will begin, Messoline said. Although the event is free, Messoline thinks it would be nice if people visited her gift shop where she stocks such UFO-alien related items as the friend giving her a hug in a recent photo. And she will have donation jars available to help pay the speakers' expenses. For anyone who wants to arrive between 9 a.m. and noon Saturday, Hooper postmaster Ron Lucero will be on hand to cancel letters and postcards with a special 2003 UFO Watch collector's stamp. On Aug. 10, the Tower Gift Shop will open at 9 a.m. Coffee and doughnuts will be served while attendees visit and discuss their experiences but there won't be any planned programs. Participants should bring their own chairs. Camping is available at $10 a night. For information, call Messoline at (719) 378-2296 or visit www.ufowatchtower.com on the Internet. [UFO UpDates thanks www.http://anomalist.com for the lead]
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 4 Conference Yields Stories & Evidence Of Aliens From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2003 14:29:22 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2003 14:29:22 -0400 Subject: Conference Yields Stories & Evidence Of Aliens Source: The Daily Nebraksan - Lincoln, Nebraska http://www.dailynebraskan.com/vnews/display.v/ART/2003/07/27/3f24820819e9f July 27, 2003 Conference Yields Stories, Evidence Of Aliens, Bigfoot Neal Obermeyer I drove through 25 different states throughout my journey and noticed how every state has a different way of greeting you. Some go for the standard "Welcome to wherever," whereas others go all-out with massive roadside murals. When you drive east into Louisiana from Houston, for example, you cross the border and are immediately greeted by the billboard asking "What do 80,000 Louisianans have in common?" The answer? "Hepatitis C." Definitely the warmest greeting I got anywhere. The leg of the trip from Houston to Atlanta was a little more rushed than I would have liked, but I had a pressing engagement the coming weekend: the 2003 Alternate Realities Conference in the mountains of eastern Tennessee. Back in my undergrad days, I worked on a documentary on the Nebraska sasquatch. When I heard this conference had new evidence on bigfoot, I had an urge to revive the project. My friend Heather in Atlanta had agreed to join me on the trip. The ARC deals with bigfoot and UFOs and ghosts and basically everything paranormal, so I had absolutely no idea what to expect. So in addition to helping me with any videography, Heather would be an anchor to reality. Or as much of an anchor to reality as Heather can be. The opening ceremonies for the conference were Friday night in Elizabethton, Tenn., which is basically straight north of Atlanta. They included dinner, an introduction of the speakers and a performance by a paranormal rock band. After stopping by the library to check the Web site for the details (which simply said to be at the Rotary Park in Elizabethton by 7:30 p.m.), we took to the tiny highways to the north. When it got to be about lunch time, we pulled off into a small town in South Carolina and passed a caf=E9 called "Me-Maw's." I asked Heather if she wanted to stop there, and she replied "What could possibly be better than Me-Maw's?" Wouldn't you know it, the next building down the road was "Pe- Paw's." I swear to God, that was really funny when it happened. Later that afternoon, a road sign that said "Bat Cave" lured us in its direction. What we thought would maybe just be a cave a mile or so away ended up being a town about 20 miles down the road. The town of Bat Cave was essentially a dozen houses and a few shops huddled around a river in the mountains. It was a beautiful little village, and so we stopped to get out and walk around. As we walked away from the riverside, a swarm of gnats grew fond of my head. I put on what must have been a wonderful show for anyone driving past, as I frantically swatted at the air around my head, desperately trying to get these things away. One of the shops we walked past was peddling "Authentic Indian Crafts," and inside sat a fat white man with a feathered headdress and no shirt. Further down the road was a gift shop that was apparently gnat-proof, because they abandoned me at the door. I got a cool Bat Cave T-shirt (which would aid me later in the trip). They didn't have the color of T-shirt Heather wanted, so she went with the logical next choice -- a slingshot. We went outside to the river so she could practice shooting only to reunite with my gnat friends, so we took that as a clue that it was time to move on. Eventually we arrived in Elizabethton to search for the park. I didn't register us for the dinner, and I wasn't particularly intrigued by the paranormal space band, so we were going to be fine not getting there until 8:15 for the speaker introductions. It was about 7:30 and we were having no luck finding this park. We stopped for dinner at this bizarre fast food place called Pal's that had a giant hot dog and hamburger on this blue stair- step building. We asked the employees where the Rotary Park was, and none of them really knew; the four of them had four different answers. One guy emerged as being more confident in his rightness than the others, so we followed his directions and just wound up in the middle of nowhere. We brought up how strange it was that this convention was in town, but there was no mention of it on hotel marquees or anything. Then Heather asked me how I found the Web site, and I said that I had just Googled "Alternate Realities Conference" and it was the first thing that came up. She then confessed that she had done the exact same thing at the library that morning with no results. She had Internet access on her phone, so as we made another aimless pass through town, she Googled it again. Nothing. So at this point, we were looking for a paranormal convention in the mountains of Tennessee in a park that none of the locals knew of, and now the only trace of the Web site appeared to exist exclusively in my head. We accepted that this was either some kind of hoax or that I was simply insane, and either way, the conference didn't really exist and we should just find somewhere to eat our rapidly- cooling food. We had passed a park along the river earlier, so we decided to head back there to eat. When I pulled into the parking area, I asked Heather where she wanted to sit. "Not by those scary people," she replied. The words "scary people" set off a mental alarm, and my eyes darted over to catch three slightly-overweight young adults dressed all in black. "This has to be it!" I proclaimed. Sure enough, hanging on the little footbridge entrance to Riverside Park was a banner for the 2003 Alternate Realities Conference. We timidly approached the picnic shelter, where we met Stacey Allen McGee, the founder and director of the ARC. I told him about how I was driving around the country writing stories, and he was pretty impressed at how far we had come. He pointed out to me how hard it is to get people from that area to attend -- being nestled in the Bible belt means that an organization that investigates the paranormal (i.e. "things that aren't listed in Genesis") is not looked upon very favorably. The people who have enough courage to attend and participate in ARC activities have to be pretty confident and thick-skinned. So we filled out our registration and left with programs in hand and the anticipation of a full day of speeches on aliens and ghosts and the exclusive new bigfoot evidence. To be continued..... August 03, 2003 http://www.dailynebraskan.com/vnews/display.v/ART/2003/08/03/3f2da83964ea8 The 2003 Alternate Realities Conference was scheduled to begin promptly at 10 a.m. After the 30-minute drive from Elizabethton into the mountains, my accomplice Heather and I arrived at the Convention Center at Roan Mountain State Park a little after 9 for registration. We stood in line behind a man who was boasting to some newbies about the 2002 convention. "At the place they held it last year," he said, "you could just go outside and watch the UFOs fly by all weekend." He then took to bragging about the cabin they had slept in the night before. He was proud that it "cost less than any hotel room and was a lot bigger than any hotel room too." "How much was it?" the other couple asked. "Only $100, but we split it with another couple," he replied. "Yeah our motel room was $50," they said. "Well, the cabin had a washer and dryer too," he countered. We got into the main conference room and were quickly greeted by Stacey Allen McGee, the director of the ARC, who was happy that we made it. We took our seats in the back row with notebooks in hand like good reporters and waited for the festivities to begin. All spookiness and absurdity aside, I was very intrigued by the day. One of the major themes I wanted to pursue in my bigfoot documentary was people's refusal to believe in things outside of the status quo. Scientists and other intellectuals often attack people who study the paranormal as being unscientific and willing to believe anything, but I was more interested in the elitists' strict belief in the world defined by their forefathers in their science books. Stacey gave an introductory speech that was along the same lines. I was having trouble hearing, so at one point, when everyone broke out into applause, I turned to Heather and asked, "What did he just say?" "If you clap you'll get abducted by aliens," she replied. The first speaker was a man named Jeffery Morgan Foss from Massachusetts. He was a former alien abductee and this was the first time he was going public with his story. His tales of decades of abduction were accompanied by some Corel Draw illustrations he had on a DVD. One of the more amazing, and therefore suspect, elements of this man's tale was his incredible attention to detail. He remembered specific dates and times and the dimensions of spacecraft, skyscrapers on alien worlds, windows and floors to the exact centimeter. One of the audience members called him on this, asking how he remembered so many details over so many years. To my satisfaction, Foss responded that he is very attentive to detail and naturally very inquisitive, so when he was telepathically communicating with the aliens, he would ask them dimensions because that was something he was genuinely interested in. Later on in his stories, he mentioned that he saw some patterns diagrammed somewhere that reminded him of the patterns we see in crop circles. So an audience member asked, "What do crop circles mean?" He couldn't remember. With all the questions he asked the aliens, there was just too much to remember, and the meaning of crop circles was one of the victims of not enough memory space. I wanted to say to the man, "Prioritize your alien memories! When you're up there on their planet, just forget how big one of the windows is, and remember what crop circles mean!" His presentation had many implications toward different levels of reality, including discussions with aliens over natural resource management and a visit with Jesus. He was also put in a "psychosomatic thrall" by an evil being who told him not to use his gifts to tell his story. It was very vivid, too. At one point, he was describing how the aliens would make him walk backwards so that he couldn't see where he was going. As an attentive artist with a keen eye, however, he could see what was behind him in the reflection in the large, dark eyes of the aliens. A five-minute intermission followed the speech, and we needed to get out of there to talk about what we just saw. We went out to the car to discuss it, and recalled that we had some leftover Busch Light from the night before, so we each pulled out a can to help us relax. "We're sitting in the parking lot outside a state park ranger's station at a paranormal convention in the mountains of Tennessee drinking Busch Light at 10:45 am," I realized out loud. "I know. How cool is that?" Heather replied. We gave our closing statements and finished our drinks to get back in for the next presentation from another alien expert, Earle Benezet. He did not get off to a convincing start: he said that he had never had any sort of paranormal experience. So when he was in his living room one day, he declared to himself that he wanted to see something, and then he felt something was there. I believe the intention of that anecdote was to show how people need to be receptive and open their minds before they can escape the confines of our artificially imposed reality, but that's not how it came across. The first part of this presentation was about UFO appearances throughout art history. Some of the examples were pretty interesting, but we were having trouble buying this. For example, in a painting of Jesus' baptism, there is an oval in the sky with light emanating from it. To the speaker, this was a UFO. Nearly every painting of the baptism of Jesus shows light coming down from the sky, so either there was a spaceship there that day and every artist from then on was there too, or maybe -- just maybe -- beams of light from the sky are an artist's convention for showing Heaven or the Holy Spirit or something. Also, crude cave paintings of humanoids were interpreted as aliens, which has led me to fear that future scientists are going to find kindergarten art projects and think that this is proof that either aliens were here, or all humans of this era have big, round heads with stick-like, underdeveloped bodies. The second half of his presentation was much more intriguing to us. He had a collection of alien sightings and other abnormalities in the sky that were reported by mainstream media or acknowledged by NASA. The fascinating part of this was how these things were blatantly happening, but authorities would go to such absurd lengths to discredit them. I'm not a good enough notetaker to do full justice to one of his examples, but basically NASA has discovered and released evidence that there are more than 100 discs over 3 miles wide hovering in our atmosphere (strikingly similar to Independence Day). The catch is that NASA claims they're just pieces of debris and other trash. He also talked about how aliens send successful ideas down to "TV people." From one struggling broadcasting graduate to another, Heather expressed her desire to network with some aliens so she can get some of these great ideas beamed to her head. We had another five-minute intermission to get to the car for discussion. While we were both skeptical of the art history part, his NASA reports were pretty mind blowing. We came back in for the part I was most excited about -- the bigfoot presentation. Sherry Lee Malin was a bigfoot researcher from Tennessee whose research included wandering around the woods collecting hair samples she found among the trees. They would then send the samples off to a lab where they could be identified. She said that the lab not only proved she had found non-human primate hair, but they proved they were sasquatch hairs. This upset me. If you find non-human primate hair in the mountains of Tennessee, that's not necessarily bigfoot, but that's still a really big deal because non-human primates aren't supposed to live in the mountains of Tennessee. So that's a pretty profound discovery with implications that push the boundaries of what is known by mainstream science. However, when you go that extra step to claim that they have been proven to be sasquatch hairs, it discredits what is otherwise credible, serious research. There isn't a sasquatch chilling in a cage somewhere to test samples against, so there's no way to prove by any legitimate scientific standard that these are sasquatch hairs. Then we watched several videos of bigfoot communication. Apparently bigfoot speaks "Native American" (since there's only one Native American language, right?) and then Sherry's friend Janice's father taught his local bigfoot population some English. So with a few decades of incorporating English into their Native American vocabulary, they are now fully capable of communicating with humans. The first video we watched was of a stationary camera looking into the woods. The woman would shriek some combination of Chewbacca and monkey, and off in the distance, you could hear a similar sound echoing back. Now it was clear that there was something in the woods responding to this woman. This was interpreted, however, as proof that bigfoot communicates in this manner. "Her entire presentation is crazy screaming noises on tape," Heather said. (I'm praying that somewhere else in Tennessee, there wasn't another convention where someone with a video camera was like "Hey, I was out in the woods and something started shrieking at me, so here's video of me shrieking back. It must be bigfoot!") We watched another similar video of people off-camera knocking big sticks onto trees and getting similar sounds in response, which of course proves that bigfoot communicates by hitting sticks on trees. We also saw several photos of broken trees leaning up against each other into crude structures. This was interpreted as proof that bigfoot builds these little houses. Now with all due respect to the researchers, they are conducting interesting experiments and attempting to make sense of unexplained reactions, but again, jumping to premature conclusions only discredits the hard work they are doing. Stacey stepped up to the microphone to save the day, though. He had been teasing some breaking news about bigfoot for a while now, and the time had come. He told a brief but amusing story about how he first got interested in bigfoot from some incidents years earlier. He was up in the mountains hiking when he saw this bigfoot creature very near. "I thought somehow in my mind that maybe I could have possibly maybe seen some sort of being over to the side," he said. He at first thought it was his roommate playing a trick on him, so he sassily turned to bigfoot and asked, "What are you doing?" In the one-liner of the day, he continued, saying, "He completely ignored me, which was typical of high school." He introduced us to a woman named "Miss Collins, who would like to remain anonymous," from that area. She had been witnessing a large, hairy creature peeking in the windows of her trailer and digging through her trash very recently. She saw a story in her local paper about the upcoming conference, so she called in to get in touch with the ARC. Over the past week, Stacey and others had been working with law enforcement scouring the area and finding evidence of the creature. Even the deputies were acknowledging that what they were finding could not be caused by a bear, which was profound. "To these people, everything's a bear," Stacey said. "If it's big and it's hairy, it's a bear." They were going to be setting up surveillance equipment and were confident that very soon, they would have concrete evidence of bigfoot. And I do believe, if anyone's going to do it, it'll be Stacey. At this point, though, a woman in the audience declared, "They're never going to believe us until we find one of these things and kill it!" This naturally brought out a rumble from the crowd. "We don't need to kill one," Stacey assured. "We just need to find one and tag it so we can monitor it," as is done with other creatures of nature. Sherry Lee Malin then stood up to explain that, in one of their conversations, bigfoot told her friend that when he dies, he is willing to donate his body to science. At this point, Miss Collins, whose connection with this organization was about a week old at best and based entirely on wanting to know what was terrorizing her yard, blurted out, "If these things are that intellectually advanced, why are they peeking in my windows and digging through my trash?!" The chaos that was about to ensue was quickly cut off by the audio/video guy, who declared that his tape had run out and it was time to call lunch. We grabbed our hot dogs and potato salad and went outside for the lunch break. Heather asked: "Do you think the desk ladies think 'Those two sure are going to the bathroom a lot. They must be drinking Busch Light in their car'?" Yeah, probably. During lunch, we ran out of beer, so we took to the road back to the town outside of the park. After stopping at the Appalachian Food Stores Plus, we discovered we were in a dry county and were instructed to head down the road to a place called "Beer Wash." "Appalachian Food Stores minus beer is more like it," Heather muttered. So we did as instructed and found Beer Wash, which was essentially a particle-board garage full of coolers with "Beer Wash" painted on the side. We picked up a 12-pack of Busch Light that was marked $6.25, and the man at the register wanted to charge us $12. Apparently all the marked prices in Beer Wash were completely arbitrary, and if you wanted to know the real cost in advance, you had to check the list behind the register. Milwaukee's Best Light was $6 for a 12-pack, so we went with that and headed back to the conference. On the drive back, we passed a Tennessee state line sign, which meant we had left the state. "We just made a beer run to North Carolina on our lunch break," I realized. We continued discussing the bigfoot presentation on the way back, particularly some connections to some of my own research that aren't worth mentioning here, and rejoined the afternoon portion of the conference. "We're convinced we're so much more normal than everyone else here," I said to Heather, "but we keep going to the parking lot every 50 minutes to slam cheap beer." The afternoon speaker I was most impressed with was Pat Fitzhugh, who spoke on the Bell Witch of Tennessee. This was an entity that inspired the "Blair Witch Project" and haunted his ancestors years ago. While some of the presentation was standard history, what was particularly impressive about Fitzhugh was his insistence upon distinguishing between legend and verifiable events. He was intrigued by the legend and the colorful ghost stories, but he knew that he couldn't taint his research with fantasy. We had to leave before the keynote speaker, but Fitzhugh was a great way to end the day. Knocking down the boundaries of mainstream science will not come with paintings and great stories -- it will come with research that plays by the mainstream rules but defies the mainstream conclusions. These guys know what they are doing, and it has to be tough to be so on-the-verge of verifying their life's work, yet keeping the imagination in check and the research grounded. We said our thank-yous and good-byes to Stacey and went to the car to reflect on what we had witnessed for the past 8 hours or so. All that mental stimulation wore out our brains. We discussed where different beers are made, such as Busch Light's home in the mountains. "Where is Milwaukee's Best made?" I asked. We scanned the can. "It doesn't say on here," Heather said. "No, right here." I found it in the fine print. "It's made in Milwaukee." At this point we realized just how incredibly stupid we had gotten. "We're sitting in the parking lot outside a state park ranger's station at a paranormal convention in the mountains of Tennessee drinking Milwaukee's Best Light," I repeated for about the tenth time that day. "When will we ever have a chance to do this again?" [UFO UpDates thanks www.http://anomalist.com for the lead]
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 4 Re: Mind Control Expert & Greer Strange Bedfellows From: Eleanor White <eleanor@raven1.net> Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2003 14:41:21 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2003 16:43:31 -0400 Subject: Re: Mind Control Expert & Greer Strange Bedfellows >From: Tom DeMary <t.demary@earthlink.net> >To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >Date: Sat, 2 Aug 2003 17:10:49 -0500 >Subject: Re: Mind Control Expert & Greer Strange Bedfellows <snip> >I think that you mischaracterize the scientific method, which >has been working pretty well to differentiate between unproven >claims and communal knowledge. Science does not disallow the >study of phenomena which cannot be repeated by anyone who tries; >it requires that experiments which are repeated give the same >results to anyone who tries. Scientists use observations, their >own, those of colleagues, those of long deceased colleagues, and >even those from failed experiments, to gain insight and propose >theories of how things work. OK - taking your expression of the scientific method, as currently practiced, phenomena which sometimes appear and other times do not, and may even depend on the psychic ability of the experimenter, are viciously ridiculed and disallowed. Yet, some such phenomena point to incredibly powerful physical principles well beyond what is in today's science textbooks. So I say again, this flaw, however you wish to express it, is holding back major discoveries. As a member of the public with interest in Ufology but unable to participate in research myself, I am shocked to hear how areas of study like telepathy, ESP, remote viewing, remote influencing, telekinesis and so forth, _routinely_ practiced by UFO occupants, are put down. This attitude is why Ufology is having trouble getting scientists to work, _and_, why scientists are avoiding the study of UFOs. Doubly shocked when scientists like Elizabeth Rauscher and her husband Bill van Bise, who _are_willing_ to tackle the "hard to get support for" fields like UFOlogy are put down because of _past_ association with the _early_ mind weapons experiments. Those early experiments were simple entrainment of mood by pulsing radio signals. The pulse rates entrained brains in range to one of the well known EEG states like beta, alpha, theta and so forth. Very low tech. The Russians had their LIDA machine, which does this entrainment, in routine use during the Korean War. It is not much more than an overpowered, pulsed CB transmitter. As to working for NASA, a pure scientist often has little choice as to where a grant may be offered. My group working to expose current day mind weapon experimentation has talked with Drs. Rauscher and Bise, and we find no evidence of anything like the attitude of other scientists who are extremely unethical - scientists who tortured even _children_ during the MKULTRA years. In fact, in one on one conversation, you won't find a nicer pair of approachable people. People like Drs. Rauscher and Bise are the ones who are willing to work to get mainstream science to get the protocols updated so fields like UFOlogy _can_ be studied. I suggest that ufologists should be glad they are helping out, regardless of what one may think about Dr. Greer. Eleanor White
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 4 CCCRN News: Hensall & Stewarttown Formations From: Paul Anderson <psa@cccrn.ca> Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2003 12:34:51 -0700 Fwd Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2003 16:45:31 -0400 Subject: CCCRN News: Hensall & Stewarttown Formations CCCRN NEWS E-News from the Canadian Crop Circle Research Network August 4, 2003 http://www.cccrn.ca _____________________________ More Updates - Hensall and Stewarttown Formations Updated diagrams and more photos have been added to the web site for both formations. Both are long pictogram style formations, Hensall approximately 71 metres (233 feet) and Stewarttown now approximately 99 metres (326 feet), after additions found July 31. A photo has also been added of an odd "shadow" anomaly with surrounding discolouration taken in the Stewarttown formation on July 27. There also is a NUFORC sighting log of a cigar-shaped UFO reported at Hensall on July 13, as well as some other reports from a local newspaper of odd lights seen July 21 (details pending): http://www.nuforc.org/webreports/029/S29743.html The Hensall formation has now attracted over 3,000 visitors so far. A couple recent news articles: 'Mysterious Crop Circles Drawing Hundreds to Southern Ontario Farm', Times Colonist, August 2, 2003 http://www.canada.com/victoria/timescolonist/archives/story.asp?id=3D470F1B3= A-7549-4D75-A692-371DD3747120 'Circles a Mystery', London Free Press, August 2, 2003 http://www.canoe.ca/NewsStand/LondonFreePress/News/2003/08/02/151677.html Other news stories pending, will be added to web site when available, as well as any further details and photos. Both formations still being investigated by CCCRN. http://www.cccrn.ca ____________________________ The Prairie Circular Want more? Subscribe to The Prairie Circular, the quarterly print newsletter of CCCRN and keep informed with the latest news, updates, articles, reviews and complete crop circle coverage from the Canadian prairies and across the country... only from CCCRN! Only $12.00 Canadian per year. Further info: http://www.cccrn.ca/theprairiecircular.html Current issue: Spring 2003 ____________________________ CCCRN News is the e-news service of the Canadian Crop Circle Research Network, providing e-mail updates with the latest news and reports on the crop circle phenomenon in Canada, as well as other information on CCCRN-related projects and events, sent free to your e-mail To subscribe, send an e-mail with Subscribe CCCRN News in the subject line to: cccrnnews@cccrn.ca The Canadian Crop Circle Research Network is a non-profit research organization which has been seriously investigating and documenting the crop circle phenomenon and other possibly related phenomena in Canada since 1995, creating a liason between researchers, farmers, the public, media and scientists =A9 Canadian Crop Circle Research Network, 2003
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 4 For Publication In The Pentagram From: Larry W. Bryant <overtci@cavtel.net> Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2003 15:21:24 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2003 16:48:58 -0400 Subject: For Publication In The Pentagram To: <drumburg@gazette.net> TO: Classified Ads Manager Comprint Military Publications 1200 Quince Orchard Blvd. Gaithersburg, MD 20870 FROM: Larry W. Bryant 3518 Martha Custis Drive Alexandria, VA 22302 DATE: August 4, 2003 Ms. Rumburg: Please tell me the cost for running the following ad in one edition of the Fort Myer, Va. published weekly newspaper The Pentagram'. Once you notify me of that cost, please allow me time to decide which of my backlogged ad submissions warrants the highest priority for further processing. Thank you for this coordination. Blow the Whistle on the CIA's Cover-up of Turkish UFO Cases In response to one of my recent FOIA requests, the CIA has refused to confirm or deny its possession of records pertaining to the Agency's solicitation/acquisition of hard-core cases of UFO encounters in Turkey during 1999-2003. Does Congress know whether these official Turkish-intelligence cases had been sought by the Agency as part of a broad U.S. program for UFO- data mining of all foreign governments' UFO lore hidden from public view? If you can help answer that and other related questions (and are willing to blow the whistle for one or more interested congressional committees), please contact Larry W. Bryant at: 703-931-3341; e-mail: overtci@cavtel.net Larry W. Bryant
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 5 OSS/Foo-Fighters? From: Keith Chester <projectbluebook@erols.com> Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2003 20:47:34 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 05 Aug 2003 01:33:34 -0400 Subject: OSS/Foo-Fighters? Hello List, Can anyone shed some extra light on Richard Dolan's book, 'UFO's And The National Security State', which revealed that the OSS had conducted an investigation into the Foo-Fighters and it was felt there was nothing to them. Does anyone know if this information was revealed through documentation or interviews? How accurate is this? Thank you
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 5 Re: Early 19th Century Virginia Alien? - Young From: Kenny Young <ufo@fuse.net> Date: Tue, 05 Aug 2003 00:32:21 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 05 Aug 2003 01:35:34 -0400 Subject: Re: Early 19th Century Virginia Alien? - Young >From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@earthlink.net> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2003 09:50:46 -0700 >Subject: Early 19th Century Virginia Alien? >List, >I've added the following curiousity to my website other research >section: >http://www.roswellproof.com/19th_century_virginia_alien.html David, List; This image seemed to remind me of the description and drawings of the WVA Flatwoods Monster of 1952. Image at: http://users.ev1.net/~seektress/tin1c.jpg Thanks, Kenny Young
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 5 UK Parliamentary Discussion Of UFOs From: Isaac Koi <isaackoi2@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2003 23:49:30 +0100 Fwd Date: Tue, 05 Aug 2003 01:41:53 -0400 Subject: UK Parliamentary Discussion Of UFOs Greetings, Having lurked in the archives of UpDates and various other mailing Lists for several years now, I thought it was about time I contributed a few emails. I have an interest in various aspects of the so-called UFO phenomenon (particularly in relation to the freedom of information issues that arise, the public perception of government statements and critical reasoning). I have, for example, recently been compiling extracts from Hansard (as most members of this list probably know, Hansard is the official report of proceedings in the United Kingdom's Houses of Parliament) relating to UFOs and been surprised at the volume of relevant material. A preliminary draft of a document containing relevant extracts is more than 60 A4 pages long (even excluding the lengthy text of the well known House of Lords debate on 18 January 1979). I have drafted a few documents relating to this research and had originally intended to send the first batch as emails to the Updates mailing list. I am concerned, however, that the relevant documents have become too long for this to be an appropriate method of dissemination (being 3 introductory documents of approximately 6 pages each, plus a much longer document containing the extracts from Hansard). I am far from certain about the etiquette of sending long documents and/or attachments to the List. I have therefore created a space on the Smartgroups service to store the documents, and will merely provide links to them until a better solution occurs to me or is suggested. The first batch of four documents can be found by clicking on the two documents symbols at each of the following two links (which, logically, should be read in the order they appear on the screen): http://www.smartgroups.com/vault/ufoinquiry/Introductory http://www.smartgroups.com/vault/ufoinquiry/Hansard (To give a further taste of the issues that interest me, it may be useful for me to include a short extract from the first of the introductory documents, which is the first document at the former link: "6. This email, and the series of emails that are to follow, are sent with the intention of putting forward some ideas as to methodology for (mainly historical) research, rather than to discuss my views on the underlying issues. However, to put my comments in context, it may help to give a few examples of the context in which the issues I find of interest arise. One example that has been referred to extensively in recent publications and various Lists by several researchers and enterprising members of the public is issues arising from the allegation of inconsistencies between statements by the British Government about the absence of any formal inquiry into UFOs and the existence of the Flying Saucer Working Party's report. Other examples which appear to be less well known (judging simply from the fact that I do not recall them being mentioned in any book, article or email that I have read) include: (a) Issues arising from (A) the detailed tables of figures put forward on behalf of the British Government as to its analysis of UFO reports received by the Ministry of Defence and (B) internal Ministry of Defence documents, including one relatively long memo discussing the potential release of UFO reports which notes that such release could be "embarrassing to the Department" for various reasons, including the "somewhat haphazard allocation" of UFO reports to the various categories. (Public Record Office File Reference AIR 2/19086 document E21, undated but written in the context of correspondence during the summer of 1975).; (b) Issues arising from (A) a stated policy of the Ministry of Defence of being prepared to release otherwise confidential UFO reports to "a major scientific organisation of high standing" if it had "strong reasons for obtaining access" and (B) internal Ministry documents relating to a joint request from 3 scientists from 3 different universities that UFO reports be released to advance understanding of ball lightning. The memo referred to in the previous sub-paragraph was written in relation to this request. Similarly, another document also written in relation to this request which suggested that the request should be turned down since the 3 scientists appeared to be a group of academic drawn together "by an interest in UFOs" and that this group therefore could not be described as "a major scientific organisation of high standing" (Public Record Office File Reference AIR 2/19086, document E16 dated 11 June 1975 from JEA Harrison). (c) Issues arising from (A) statements on behalf of the British Government that UFO reports are investigated to determine whether they have any defence significance and (B) internal Ministry documents, including a document from an official (Mr E Humpston of DI55b) which included a commented that an investigation which fulfilled the stated policy would require more time and effort than could be devoted from the available resources, requiring "2-3 man days ... for each investigation" (Public Record Office File Reference DEFE 31/119, memo dated 7th June 1967). In response to this memo, A D Hunter ADI/DI55 advised Mr Potts DSTI was that since further staffing on this low priority task could not be contemplated, "we must therefore always fall short of what is required to implement the stated official policy" (Public Record Office File Reference DEFE 31/119, memo dated 7th June 1967). The stated official policy, however, continued to be repeated. (d) Issues arising from the changes in the presentation of the detailed tables of figures referred to above. 7. Although I do not wish to discuss, for now at least, my views on any of the above or wishing to sound like Condon during one of his after dinner speeches, I cannot mention these points without at least briefly noting that one fairly typical Ministry of Defence file of UFO related documents from the same period as the above documents included correspondence in which: (a) one chap, who considered that "any UFO enthusiast would treasure [his correspondence with the Ministry] for the rest of his life", advised that he had had repeated contact with aliens, very similar to us in appearance. The letter stated all of these aliens had been female, "I suppose they use females because they are far less conspicuous than would be males". The letter also stated "I pride myself in knowing that I have learnt to pick them out from other people. In fact, in the very unlikely event of war with these people, I would be very useful". Fortunately, these aliens are "very respectable people and very clean". (Public Record Office File Reference AIR 2/18871, document E108 dated 7th October 1972). (b) one woman advised in a telegram from her to the Ministry of Defence that "The Devil is approaching the Moon Jeremiah 31-37" (Public Record Office File Reference AIR 2/18871, document E34, 1972).") I would welcome any thoughts relating to the dissemination of these, and future, documents. The method adopted in this email (of simply providing links to the documents for those wishing to download them) has at least 2 major disadvantages and fails to achieve the objectives set out in the very documents which I wish to disseminate... Firstly, the contents of these documents will not show up on internet searches, so any future researcher wishing to avoid reinventing the wheel by searching the Internet for UFO related debates in Parliament will not easily discover these documents. Secondly, there is an understandable tendency on Lists for the debate to centre on the actual contents of emails sent to the List, rather than any material for which a mere link is provided. (Setting up my own UFO related website is a rather unattractive option to me (as readers of the first document I have drafted will understand)). Kind Regards, Isaac Koi isaackoi@yahoo.co.uk
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 5 Firmage Plans 3D Net From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> Date: Tue, 05 Aug 2003 07:57:41 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 05 Aug 2003 07:57:41 -0400 Subject: Firmage Plans 3D Net Source: Australian IT http://australianit.news.com.au/articles/0,7204,6862655%5E15397%5E%5Enbv%5E,00.h tml Alien Searcher Plans 3D Net Barbara Gengler August 05, 2003 A SELF-MADE US millionaire who believes all technology came from aliens has backed a start-up he claims will transform users' internet experience "by turning it into a breathtaking three- dimensional environment that mirrors the natural world". Before launching ManyOne Network, of which he is now chairman and chief executive, Joe Firmage founded USWeb, which became the world's largest internet consulting company under his leadership. He left USWeb to launch SETI, the search for extraterrestrial intelligence, in May 1999. According to SETI, more than four million people have downloaded the software and about half a million run it daily. The project, which links computers into a single analytical tool, is used by universities and government departments to detect radio signals from outer space and analyse them for patterns that may indicate intelligent life. Moving forward, Mr Firmage and his colleagues have invested more than $US10 million ($15.3 million) in research and development in the new venture. The company has created a next-generation internet medium using the ManyOne Universal browser and Portal Service. ManyOne previewed the two at the recent SIGGRAPH 2003 trade show. The open-source Mozilla-based browser with the internet's first visual navigation system uses icons based on nature to navigate 3D content portals. The Universal Portal Service provides a global distribution network for developers interested in building and publishing rich-media content in a 3D medium that Mr Firmage and his company call Web 2.0. Powered by the ManyOne Universal Portal Service, the browser allows partners to create revenue-generating, privately labelled portals for members, delivering services such as internet access, email, universal instant messaging, news and content feeds. ManyOne Network has also announced a licensing agreement with GeoFusion, whose technology enables software developers to build high-performance, interactive, full-globe digital Earth and world-based applications. Mr Firmage said integrating the company's technology into the ManyOne platform would enable it to provide a canvas for photo- realistic, 3D world portals. "With the ability to integrate feature content overlays with GeoFusion-rendered worlds, 3D 360-degree global terrain scenes and space-to-street level interactive views, the technology provides a sensory experience and fidelity unmatched by an other visualisation technology," he said. ManyOne has also acquired MediaMachines, a provider of technologies for creating real-time, interactive 3D content based on open standards. Over the next decade, the combined efforts will yield a living encyclopedia of more than 400,000 subject-focused portals, Mr Firmage said. ManyOne was in the process of becoming wholly owned by a foundation that would be run like a non-profit operation, he said. www.ManyOne.net http://seti@home.ssl.berkeley.edu www.geofusion.com www.mediamachines.com [UFO UpDates thanks www.http://anomalist.com for the lead]
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 5 US Presidential Candidate On UFOs From: Charlette LeFevre <clefevre@oz.net> Date: Tue, 05 Aug 2003 00:47:23 -0700 Fwd Date: Tue, 05 Aug 2003 08:13:56 -0400 Subject: US Presidential Candidate On UFOs Congressman Dennis Kucinich - Pres. Candidate in Seattle on UFOs by Charlette LeFevre and Philip Lipson Kingdom Underground Newsletter Editorial Seattle UFO/Paranormal Group The Candidate with a history of disclosure. Dennis Kucinich had just arrived at the Elliott Bay Bookstore in the quaint historic Pioneer District of Seattle from the University of Washington July 19th to talk to a small conversation club. The bookstore overlooks the blue waters of Puget Sound - the location where Seattle s founding fathers first set up shop in the gold rush days. Over the years the bookstore has hosted prominent politicians and authors including Jimmy Carter so it was not surprising when word got out that Congressman and Presidential Candidate Dennis Kucinich (D-OH) would be arriving at the bookstore. Kucinich - a short dark haired smiling man dressed casual walked comforatably through the small crowd at the cafe, past the espresso line and the grinning faces of Hillary Clinton adorning the cover of her new book. Kucinich took the wooden stage and spoke for a few minutes before eagerly answering questions. There were questions regarding the Iraq war and relations with Canada but there was one interesting question posed to Kucinich. The question was framed with comments that trust and security are a huge factor with our government and asked in the same vein that Bill Clinton said he would look into the Kennedy assassination and the question of UFOs before his presidency, if he himself would look into these areas if he was elected president. Surprisingly without hesitating Kucinich said that he indeed felt a great loss with Kennedy and he honestly didn't know if he could ever find the answers to those questions. He then questioned the intelligent life in Washington D.C. which elicited agreeable laughter from the audience but Kucinich then stated in a serious tone we would be arrogant to think we are alone in this universe. On disclosure, does Kucinich have the fortitude to ask the tough questions and follow through? At least in several instances it seems Kucinich has the background. Kucinich on disclosure used a rare House procedure known as a 'Resolution of Inquiry' to force the current Administration to provide Congress with a copy of the 12,000 page Iraqi declaration sent to the United Nations. People can now view the classified Iraqi document at: http://www.house.gov/apps/list/press/oh10_kucinich/030311doc.htm Kucinich then went on in to say we should not be dominating other nations, that we need to be strong and focus on repairing this nation. Dennis then finished with We are all connected". Standing up for people and standing up to corporations has been Kucinch's trademark and indeed he has been a person who has walked the walk having marched with Seattle City Councilman Nick Licata in Seattle s1999 WTO protests. A candidate with foresight? Kucinich introduced the 'Space Preservation Act of 2001' (HR 2977), which calls for the banning of all weapons in space and would outlaw all research and development for space-based weapons. Interesting, a candidate that refuses to sell out to corporations, marches with protestors defending humanity and encourages peace and cooperation. Is it any wonder that Kucinich has the endorsement from Mahatma Gandhi's grandson s? Keep your eyes on the stars and a watch on this guy. The Seattle UFO/Paranoramal Group makes no endorsements and is an independant lecture group not affiliated or governed by any outside political agencies or organizations. www.seattlechatclub.org
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 5 Re: Parliamentary Discussion Of UFOs - Pope From: Nick Pope <nick@popemod.freeserve.co.uk> Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2003 11:17:48 +0100 Fwd Date: Tue, 05 Aug 2003 08:16:06 -0400 Subject: Re: Parliamentary Discussion Of UFOs - Pope >From: Isaac Koi <isaackoi2@yahoo.co.uk> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2003 23:49:30 +0100 >Subject: UK Parliamentary Discussion Of UFOs <snip> >I have an interest in various aspects of the so-called UFO >phenomenon (particularly in relation to the freedom of >information issues that arise, the public perception of >government statements and critical reasoning). >I have, for example, recently been compiling extracts from >Hansard (as most members of this list probably know, Hansard is >the official report of proceedings in the United Kingdom's >Houses of Parliament) relating to UFOs and been surprised at the >volume of relevant material. A preliminary draft of a document >containing relevant extracts is more than 60 A4 pages long (even >excluding the lengthy text of the well known House of Lords >debate on 18 January 1979). >I have drafted a few documents relating to this research and had >originally intended to send the first batch as emails to the >Updates mailing list. I am concerned, however, that the relevant >documents have become too long for this to be an appropriate >method of dissemination (being 3 introductory documents of >approximately 6 pages each, plus a much longer document >containing the extracts from Hansard). I am far from certain >about the etiquette of sending long documents and/or attachments >to the List. I have therefore created a space on the Smartgroups >service to store the documents, and will merely provide links to >them until a better solution occurs to me or is suggested. The >first batch of four documents can be found by clicking on the >two documents symbols at each of the following two links (which, >logically, should be read in the order they appear on the >screen): >http://www.smartgroups.com/vault/ufoinquiry/Introductory >http://www.smartgroups.com/vault/ufoinquiry/Hansard <snip> Isaac and List, This is an extremely interesting post, and I hope List members take the time to go through the four documents posted at the two links above, because a lot of hard work has gone into this. Isaac has produced what will be a useful resource for anyone wanting to study the way in which the British Government has viewed the UFO phenomenon over the years. The second document on the second link will be particularly useful in this respect, as Isaac has drawn together the most comprehensive database of UFO- related Hansard extracts that I have seen. The most interesting and useful of these, I believe, are Lord Hill-Norton's four questions (two dated 14 October 1998, one dated 19 November 1998 and one dated 17 December 1998) concerning Ministry of Defence UFO files. The responses to these questions consist of a list of around two hundred individual files. As Isaac notes in his commentary, this list is far more comprehensive than the Public Record Office's source sheet on the subject, which lists just 49 files. Although the majority of the files are not yet open to the public because of the so- called '30 year rule', all this will change once the Freedom of Information Act is fully implemented. In the meantime, the list of files reproduced in Hansard is essential for anybody going to the Public Record Office to study those files that are open to the public. Indeed, the list has clearly informed much work in recent years on the part of researchers such as Nick Redfern, Georgina Bruni and Tim Good. Isaac raises in his commentaries a number of issues relating to the various Hansard extracts, and more generally to the British Government's policy on - and handling of - the UFO issue. Having stewarded the Ministry of Defence's UFO project from 1991 to 1994, I can identify with a number of the problems that Isaac identifies, especially in relation to apparent inconsistencies in official statements on the issue, statistical anomalies, etc. The following observations might be of use in addressing some of Isaac's points: The responses to Parliamentary Questions are given by Ministers, but these answers will have been written by civil servants. Senior civil servants will sign them off, but they will have been drafted by the desk officers responsible for the particular subject. What looks like conspiracy is almost certainly going to be bureaucracy. Papers are misfiled and files are lost all the time. This isn't unique to the civil service, of course, but when it happens to material relating to UFOs, people start seeing cover-ups. Civil servants and military officers working in the MOD will tend to do a tour of duty of between two and four years. Over the years, therefore, several dozen individuals will have worked on the UFO issue, both in civilian secretariat divisions, the Defence Intelligence Staff, and various RAF air defence/ radar divisions. All these people work to the same policy, but all will have had different ways of working, and different views on the UFO phenomenon. Following on from the above point, there is perhaps a lack of continuity in some areas. An individual will get a handover from his or her predecessor, but it's always difficult going back further than that, especially as old files are sent to archives or to the Public Record Office, and have to be called back if needed. Desk officers will always find it difficult to be certain on precisely how something was handled several decades ago. When MOD officials make statements on the UFO issue, they are seldom believed. They are either accused of being part of the conspiracy, or of being out of the loop. And yet the MOD strives to treat everyone with courtesy and respect, and to answer requests for information as fully as possible. I can't guarantee that all questions have been answered correctly, because as I've said above, papers can be lost and desk officers might not be aware of all the facts. But what I can say is that every desk officer will have tried to answer every question as fully and accurately as possible. The civil service takes this extremely seriously. But sometimes the politics of ufology will complicate matters. The MOD has had, over the years, approaches from several people requesting access to data not available to the public, on the grounds that they 'represent ufology' or are 'scientifically qualified in a way ufologists are not'. Furthermore, there have been approaches from cultists and cranks. The MOD is mindful of the presentational aspects of this subject, and needs to have one eye on how its actions might play with the media, Members of Parliament and the public. The MOD and the RAF take an interest in anything flying in the UK Air Defence Region, and if something is detected visually or on radar, and can't be identified, it will be investigated. But we don't want to imply a level of interest in UFOs that simply doesn't exist. There's no corporate belief in aliens. In most cases there will have been a misidentification of an ordinary object or phenomenon, or a misinterpretation of radar data. On other occasions, sightings simply end up in the insufficient data or unknown categories. Notwithstanding the above, there have been many cases over the years that suggest something as yet unexplained. Good radar/visual cases, objects seen or tracked operating at unusual heights and speeds, or performing unusual manoeuvres. Evidence of something more exotic? In my view, yes. Proof? Not by my standards. And evidence or no evidence, that's a long way from saying - as some do - that the UK Government has crashed saucers, dead aliens, etc. I hope Isaac's post and the subsequent emails he promises provoke the interest and debate that they merit. I'm happy to comment on specific civil service, parliamentary and MOD procedures, where I have direct knowledge of them, and where I can do so within the Official Secrets Act. Best wishes, Nick Pope
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 5 Author John Spencer? From: Roy Hale <roy@thelosthaven.co.uk> Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2003 14:01:50 +0100 Fwd Date: Tue, 05 Aug 2003 09:05:14 -0400 Subject: Author John Spencer? Hi All, Does anyone have an e-mail address for the author John Spencer? Please e-mail if you have: roy@thelosthaven.co.uk Regards, Roy
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 6 Re: OSS/Foo-Fighters? - Pope From: Nick Pope <nick@popemod.freeserve.co.uk> Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2003 15:57:17 +0100 Fwd Date: Wed, 06 Aug 2003 20:03:13 -0400 Subject: Re: OSS/Foo-Fighters? - Pope >From: Keith Chester <projectbluebook@erols.com> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2003 20:47:34 -0400 >Subject: OSS/Foo-Fighters >Hello List, >Can anyone shed some extra light on Richard Dolan's book, 'UFO's >And The National Security State', which revealed that the OSS >had conducted an investigation into the Foo-Fighters and it was >felt there was nothing to them. >Does anyone know if this information was revealed through >documentation or interviews? How accurate is this? Keith and List, I can't help you on the OSS investigation, other than to provide a link to 'A Die-Hard Issue, CIA's Role in the Study of UFOs, 1947-90', by Gerald Haines. The reference to Foo-Fighters is at the end of the main text, in the fourth footnote: http://www.odci.gov/csi/studies/97unclass/ufo.html In the UK, the Ministry of Defence has some reports of so-called Foo-Fighters, seen by British aircrew during the Second World War. There are two relevant files, open for viewing at the Public Record Office in Kew. The references are Air 14/2076 and Air 14/2800. Some researchers have asked why the Flying Saucer Working Party (which was set up in 1950, and reported in 1951) considered the Ghost Rocket phenomenon, but ignored Foo-Fighters. The Flying Saucer Working Party's final report can be viewed at this link: http://www.nickpope.net/selected_documents.htm Interestingly, the answer to this perfectly valid question has nothing to do with any sinister conspiracy or cover-up. The fact is that when the Flying Saucer Working Party was set up, views were sought from Fighter Command, but not from Bomber Command, which had been more closely involved with the phenomenon. The relevant Public Record Office file references are DEFE 10/496, DEFE 41/74 and DEFE 41/75. Two essays detailing the British Government's involvement with the UFO issue (including material on Foo-Fighters and Ghost Rockets) can be found at the following links: http://www.nickpope.net/official_history.htm http://www.nickpope.net/official_history_pt_2.htm Best wishes, Nick Pope
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 6 Re: Private Aircraft Damage Event - Ledger From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 13:04:41 -0300 Fwd Date: Wed, 06 Aug 2003 20:08:54 -0400 Subject: Re: Private Aircraft Damage Event - Ledger >From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> >Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 13:08:27 -0400 >Fwd Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 14:41:43 -0400 >Subject: Re: Private Aircraft Damage Event - Velez >>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker@earthlink.net> >>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >>Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 10:51:13 -0400 >>Subject: Private Aircraft Damage Event [was: Filer's Files #30 -- 2003] >>>From: Vicente-Juan Ballester Olmos <ballesterolmos@yahoo.es> >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >>>Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 10:11:29 +0200 (CEST) >>>Subject: Re: Filer's Files #30 -- 2003 >>>I would not put too much credence in this Latin-american >>>aeronautical event, and it has been demolished or debunked by >>>Mexican engineer and researcher Luis Ruiz Noguez. >>>If there is someone interested, I can privately provide Mr >>>Ruiz=ABs email address for consultation. >>Thanks for your always-of-interest comment. Of course, I'd like >>to know how to contact Noguez. I may have read Noguez's >>commentary several years ago (but I could be confused about >>whose commentary I read) and found them not completely >>convincing. However, if he has written his report on that case >>in English, I'd like to ask him for a copy. <snip> Boys, boys! >I also clearly stated that the collision took place during a >landing at Mexico City Airport. The 'case' that you and Vicente >are discussing is completely unrelated to this collision case I >have cited. >The facts are as follows: >Mexico City International Airport, July 28, 1994 Time: 9:55pm >Airplane: DC-9 en route from Guadalajara Airport to Mexico City Airport >Flight# 129 >Passengers: 109 + crew >Pilot reporting: Raymundo Cervantes Ruano >In a taped interview of the Pilot, Capt. Ruano, reports; that at >precisely 9:55 pm during a landing approach to Mexico City >Airport, his aircraft collided with a 'UFO'. (unknown) >Due to the sudden collision, he was forced to make an emergency >landing. Upon inspection of the aircraft the following damage >was documented: the shock absorber had been torn off of one of >the landing gear, (they didn't mention 'which' landing gear was >affected) and there was also a dent on the bottom of the >fuselage. >The 'UFO' that flight# 129 collided with was observed and >videotaped by Mexico City 'local' Victor Lopez Suarez. That, is >the case I cited to Betsy. I have no idea what you guys are >talking about. >If any of our Mexican members could chime in with updated >information it would be greatly appreciated. The case I was >discussing has not been determined a hoax. I hope List readers >don't begin to confuse the case I was referring to with this >apparently solved one that Ray brought up. >Just to put this thread back on the beam, the issue I had raised >involved 'UFOs' and commercial aircraft safety. It is an issue >that needs to be addressed _before_ something tragic happens. Hi John, This one sounds bogus as well. Airlanes don't have shock absorbers, they have oleos [from which vehicle shock absorbers were born] which are integral to the main gear shaft of each wheel. That shaft immediatly above the wheel is the oleo. If it's torn off then basically you don't have the wheel either so it would have been impossible to land the aircraft without tearing it up. It then would have been a really big deal. DC-9 crashes in Mexico city. Best, Don Ledger
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 6 Re: UK Parliamentary Discussion Of UFOs - Anthony From: Gary Anthony <mithrand@mithrand.karoo.co.uk> Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2003 16:26:58 +0100 Fwd Date: Wed, 06 Aug 2003 20:12:13 -0400 Subject: Re: UK Parliamentary Discussion Of UFOs - Anthony >From: Isaac Koi <isaackoi2@yahoo.co.uk> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2003 23:49:30 +0100 >Subject: UK Parliamentary Discussion Of UFOs >Greetings, >Having lurked in the archives of UpDates and various other >mailing Lists for several years now, I thought it was about time >I contributed a few emails. >I have an interest in various aspects of the so-called UFO >phenomenon (particularly in relation to the freedom of >information issues that arise, the public perception of >government statements and critical reasoning). >I have, for example, recently been compiling extracts from >Hansard (as most members of this list probably know, Hansard is >the official report of proceedings in the United Kingdom's >Houses of Parliament) relating to UFOs and been surprised at the >volume of relevant material. A preliminary draft of a document >containing relevant extracts is more than 60 A4 pages long (even >excluding the lengthy text of the well known House of Lords >debate on 18 January 1979). Hi Isaac and List, A very timely post Isaac and having read through your list of UK parliamentary material - there is perhaps two bits of information which may help. 1. There is quite a bit missing from your list, despite the obvious hard work that you've put in. 2. Dr. David Clarke has culled _every_ PQ and answer and many other related materials and correspondence. (I note that your list includes a lot from D. Clarke's latest book) Perhaps you should team up together and make your resource as comprehensive as possible; because such a resource would indeed serve the UFOlogical community and anyone else interested in the U.K. Government and politics involvement in the UFO topic. There's a lot of useful questioning and reasoning in your approach to this angle. Welcome to Updates. Best Regards, Gary Anthony
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 6 Re: Firmage Plans 3D Net - Groff From: Terry Groff <terry@terrygroff.com> Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2003 10:37:03 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 06 Aug 2003 20:14:11 -0400 Subject: Re: Firmage Plans 3D Net - Groff >Source: Australian IT >http://australianit.news.com.au/articles/0,7204,6862655%5E15397%5E%5Enbv%5E,00. html >Alien Searcher Plans 3D Net >Barbara Gengler >August 05, 2003 >A SELF-MADE US millionaire who believes all technology came from >aliens has backed a start-up he claims will transform users' >internet experience "by turning it into a breathtaking three- >dimensional environment that mirrors the natural world". >Before launching ManyOne Network, of which he is now chairman >and chief executive, Joe Firmage founded USWeb, which became the >world's largest internet consulting company under his >leadership. >He left USWeb to launch SETI, the search for extraterrestrial >intelligence, in May 1999. This is a nice endeavor but it must be noted that Joe Firmage did not "launch" SETI, or _SETI @ Home (SAH)_, although without his support SAH may have shut down early. The beginnings of Modern SETI can be traced back to as early as September 1959 with the publishing of a paper by Philip Morrison and Giuseppe Cocconi in Nature magazine called "Searching for Interstellar Communications". According to The Planetary Society, Ann Druyan of Carl Sagan Productions and Joe Firmage of Intend Change helped fund the _continuance_ of SAH who at the time already had 2,000,000 users worldwide. SAH was slated to be shut down in May 2001 until TPS, Druyan and Firmage stepped in with extra funding: http://www.planetary.org/html/news/articlearchive/headlines/2000/hdln-seti.html There is more on this at: http://www.berkeley.edu/news/media/releases/2000/08/08_seti.html Terry Groff http://terrygroff.com/ufotools/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 6 Re: 'Decoded' Message From Alien Crop Glyph - From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com> Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2003 13:40:49 -0700 Fwd Date: Wed, 06 Aug 2003 20:17:40 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Decoded' Message From Alien Crop Glyph - >From: Eleanor White <eleanor@raven1.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2003 09:27:38 -0400 >Subject: 'Decoded' Message From Alien Crop Glyph >Remember that alien face crop glyph with a 'digital disc' >glyph beside it? That is referred to as the Crabwood >glyph. For those who would like to see the original image, >I have it saved on my site at this direct link: >http://www.raven1.net/crabwood.jpg >Last night's (August 3-4, 2003) guest on Coast to Coast AM >was Marshall Masters, who has worked as an engineer and >scientist, and more recently has become a researcher and >author on anomalies which point to advanced and covered >up phenomena. His web site is: >http://www.yowusa.com >A page from that site now shows the result of an analysis by a >Maurice Osborn who, starting from the center of the spiral >stream of bits, applied the PC (commonly called ASCII) binary >code set to the bit stream, and came up with this translation of >the message: >"Beware the bearers of FALSE gifts & their BROKEN >PROMISES. Much PAIN but still time. BELIEVE. >There is GOOD out there. We OPpose DECEPTION. >COnduit CLOSING," >Those familiar with the ASCII code set know that there are >separate codes for upper case letters and lower case letters, >and the capitalization above appears to be intended by the non- >human writers. Mr. Masters stated that the glyph was analyzed on >site and found to have the radiused stalk bends and careful >interweaving of laid-over stalks which indicate a glyph of non- >human origin. >The direct link to that descriptive page is: >http://www.yowusa.com/Archive/May2003/crabwood4/crabwood4.htm >In case that page becomes unavailable I also have saved that >page, text without images, to my site directly: >http://www.raven1.net/crabwood4.htm Eleanor, List, EBK I read everything you posted and am amazed that there hasn't been more discussion of the Crabwood glyph. Has it been written off as a hoax? If not, why aren't we discussing the message in detail? And if it is a hoax, how was it accomplished? Are all the circles in Italy hoaxes also? Why not think about communicating back. Not with flash lights, but a huge circle (glyph) of our own design, using the symbols and code found in previous circle designs. If they notice, maybe they'll respond and we can get an objective dialogue going. Or maybe the dialogue has already begun and all the hoaxed circles are seen by the original circle makers as an attempt to communicate. Now wouldn't that be a hoot? My suggestion for our first message: We OPpose DECEPTION... Too! Ed
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 6 UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 8 Number 29 From: John Hayes <webmaster@ufoinfo.com> Date: Tue, 05 Aug 2003 15:05:52 +0100 Fwd Date: Wed, 06 Aug 2003 20:51:17 -0400 Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 8 Number 29 Posted on behalf of Joseph Trainor. <Masinaigan@aol.com> ========================== UFO ROUNDUP Volume 8, Number 29 August 6, 2003 Editor: Joseph Trainor http://www.ufoinfo.com/roundup/ STRANGE WINGED HUMANOID SPOTTED IN CALAMA, CHILE A bizarre winged humanoid was spotted by three youths in San Pedro de Atacama, a village near Calama in northern Chile. "Diego, who is in his first year of middle school," went to his grandfather's shack in San Pedro de Atacama, "accompanied by his friends and neighbors, Jonathan and Carlos." On Tuesday, July 23, 2003, at 8:30 p.m., after feeding the livestock, "the three youths decided to return to the grandfather's house and spend the night. Diego lit the stove to boil water and serve tea with some loaves of bread they had brought from Calama. His grandfather was out of the house. The only source of light came from a candle, since the (rural) area lacks electricity." "At around 9:05 p.m., moments after the boys were serving up their supper, they could hear the dogs on the property issue strange noises and howls." "At around 9:15 p.m., strange knocking sounds rattled the door of the house, swiftly increasing in violence and accompanied by scratches, which left the boys speechless and instinctively made them get up from their seats." The trio climbed into bed and covered themselves with the blankets. "After three to five minutes, the sound ceased completely. Diego got out from under the blankets, looked out the window and did not see anyone. He opened the door but didn't see anything, either." "'It's all right, boys. It's gone,'" he said. As they left the shack, the boys saw "standing amid the pear trees" 15 meters (50 feet) away "a horrifying creature a meter-and-a-half (5 feet) tall, sprouting wings measuring 3.5 meters (11 feet). It was covered by glossy black skin, very clean and hairless. It appeared as though it had recently emerged from the water but without being wet. It had a large head and a small beak, presenting a sort of crest (like a rooster--J.T.) which was apparently missing a piece from a fight. Its eyes were immense and completely black, but sparkled brilliantly." "They thought it was a prehistoric being, since its wings had a strong resemblance to those of pterodactyls or bats, featuring bone-like protuberances that form the skeletal frame of its wings. Its legs were sturdy and had powerful claws like those of a carrion bird, but much stronger." "Suddenly, the being fluttered its wings, shaking up the (pear) tree in front of it, and rising into the air with extraordinary ease, losing itself in the dark of night." "Fearing its return, which fortunately did not occur, the three boys slept in a single bed that night." The city of Calama is now in the third year of an ongoing flap and has had numerous sightings of UFOs and aliens since February 2001. (Muchas gracias a Scott Corrales, Dr. Virgilio Sanchez Ocejo y Jaime Ferrer del Centro OVNI de Calama para esas noticias.) LARGE NIGHT SAUCER SEEN OVER SALVADOR IN BRAZIL On Saturday, July 26, 2003, at approximately 9:30 p.m., Antonio Lauro Filho was outdoors in the bairro Itaigara (neighborhood) of Salvador, capital of Bahia state in northern Brazil. He reported, "My father saw a disc-shaped object of immense proportions descending vertically into our neighborhood. Unfortunately, I myself did not see this object, but my father said it was not a satellite or a meteor. Later I spoke to many people in Itaigara, who had also seen the saucer." Salvador is a port city on the South Atlantic, located about 700 kilometers (420 miles) north-northeast of Rio de Janeiro. (Muito obrigado a Alexandre de Carvalho Borges por eso caso.) TEN UFOs PUT ON A DISPLAY IN WESTERN TEXAS On Saturday, July 19, 2003, around 11 p.m., eyewitness Sherry L. reported, "My husband and I were camping on a desert property located about 60 miles (100 kilometers) east from El Paso, Texas on Highway 62/180, which is the highway going to Carlsbad, New Mexico." (Editor's Note: The campground was about 10 miles or 16 kilometers east of Cornudas, Texas.) Sherry's husband "saw these things, too, but wants to think we saw a satellite in the sky and some sort of military maneuvers, or drug runners, or the Border Patrol doing something. I'm not so sure." "My husband went to bed, but I stayed up with the binoculars to look at the sky. All lights were off at the campsite so nothing would distort my view. The sky was crystal clear and spectacular. The Milky Way was beautiful." "I noticed a bright white object that seemed to move, but this isn't unusual because the atmosphere will make stars look like they are moving. I even thought it was Mars because it is so close to the Earth right now. But when I looked at it through the binoculars, I clearly saw two distinct objects." Both were bright white. One "was rod-shaped and slightly slanted toward" the other, which Sherry called objects A and B. The cylinder-shaped UFO "seemed to be moving around B. (Object) A did not twinkle, but B seemed to twinkle and pulsate." "The moon had not yet come up above the horizon. It would be another 20 minutes or so before moon-rise. Thus, it was still a very dark night, and the stars were brilliant." "At this time I also noticed additional lights on the north side of the ridge, looking towards Highway 62/180." In this area, "one cannot see vehicle lights from the highway due to the rise" in the desert terrain. "This one is about one-and-a-half miles (2 kilometers) from our campsite and about one-and-a-half miles northeast of the highway." "There were three groups of lights. From left to right, the colors were blue, gold and yellow. Maybe the different colored lights were a little over 200 feet (60 meters) apart." "Each group was made up of two distinct objects. I labeled them on the drawing. Blue lights were labeled C and D; gold lights E and F; and yellow lights G and H." "Lights C, E and G from each group were static in their color. Their shapes were each the same, not exactly triangular but very near that shape." "Lights D, F and H twinkled/pulsated to the point of looking as if sparks were flying from them. Much like a sparkler but with a dark center." "I awoke my husband so he could see them. He looked at them, watched with me for a short while but went back to bed." "I continued to watch these strange lights after my husband went back to bed for another 45 minutes or so. It really started to get strange after my husband went back to bed." "Through the binoculars, I could see some sort of movement around the gold and yellow lights. Both blue lights were starting to get dim. I could not make out the distinctive shapes of the objects that were moving around lights E and G. They looked like moving globs of dark shadow." "At one point, lights F (gold) and H (yellow) moved toward each other, and, when they met, light F moved over and beyond light H for a few moments, and then they moved back to their original positions. They did not twinkle or sparkle during this maneuver." "The gold lights then dimmed out completely for a few moments and suddenly reappeared." "At this point, three long, narrow, rod-shaped lights, each a very dim red color, moved from light E (gold) to light D (blue). Blue did not get any brighter after this." "The first two lights in the sky (A and B--J.T.) had moved to the west and were now nearly directly over the group of ground lights. But when I looked at them through the binoculars, I could only make out one large bright light. At this point, I noticed movement above the horizon in the sky, below A and B slightly to the west." "It was another set of lights, just like A and B when I first looked at them" an hour earlier, "the only difference was that this set of lights, labeled I and J in the drawing, were much dimmer and closer to the horizon." "I went to bed after nothing happened for a while. Have to admit I did take a sleeping pill, but they have never made me hallucinate before. And my husband did see the same lights." (Many thanks to Jim Hickman for this report.) DAYLIGHT DISC SIGHTED IN PASCO, WASHINGTON On Sunday, July 27, 2003, at 10:55 a.m., Steve K. was watching an air show at the Tri-Cities Airport in Pasco, Washington state (population 32,066). He reported that it was a "perfectly clear day, no clouds, very dry climate, temperature near 100 degrees Fahrenheit." "The object was located by accident while observing the departure of two demonstration 'training jets,' that had just completed an exhibition for the local hydroplane races," Steve explained, "When first observed, I was looking to the west-southwest at an azimuth of approximately 240 degrees, elevation was approximately 20 to 25 degrees" above the horizon. "While the object moved ever so slowly to the east, it was not motionless." "As mentioned, I was watching the departure of the 'air show' jets. I watched them through my 8-millimeter Pentax binoculars, thinking they might come back for one more pass for the crowd. As I tracked the jets on their southerly course, a black object 'flashed' through my (field of) view." "At first I thought it was a bird. Since I am always interested in large hawks and predatory birds, I dropped the jets and moved back to the black object. In the one or two seconds it took me to relocate the object, it had turned silver in appearance. It was obviously a very interesting object." "So I watched this, this, this...flying machine...for several minutes. It moved in the pattern of a soaring hawk scanning a field for prey. If you can imagine a smooth valley, or 'bowl,' in the air, the object seemed to glide up the sides of the bowl to a certain point, then turn and glide up the other side. It looked as though the pilot was having fun exercising his machine." "Finally, I decided to observe without binoculars. And since I knew exactly where to look, I could see the appearance of the black side followed by the silver side. The other witness saw both 'colors' as well and remarked that the object was 'really up there.' That remark was an indicator that the other witness thought the object was very far away--an impression I shared." "When the (UFO's) 'bottom' was turned towards me, the object was perfectly round and black. There were no discernible features other than their white or silver ring around the black at the edge of the disk. When the object turned so that the 'top' was showing, I could see a smoothly contoured 'canopy.' It was not, however, symmetrical. It appeared to have a 'teardrop' shape--sort of pointed on one side and rounded on what I call the 'back' side of the disk. The upper surface of the disk was also uniformly silver and very bright." "When the disk did catch the rays of the sun just right, the disk shone very, very brightly. With the naked eye, I could see the black 'bottom' and the bright flash of the silver top as it maneuvered." "I eventually became so tired of holding my binoculars that I tried to find a more comfortable observing position. When I returned to locate the object, I could not find it again and could not discern where it went or in what direction." (Email Form Report) UFO FLOTILLA APPEARS IN DUNMORE, ALBERTA A flotilla of UFOs appeared last week in Dunmore, Alberta province, Canada. The sighting took place on Tuesday, July 29, 2003 at 11 p.m. The male witness reported "bright lights in the sky that looked like stars but moved fast and in many different directions, along with standing still and then moving again. We saw six different ones. One prominent one was hovering over a distant field, then it moved up" to an altitude of "500 meters (1,650 feet). We watched this until 11:45 p.m." Interviewed by Canadian ufologist Brian Vike, the witness added that "two (UFOs) went south at different times; three went east at different times, and the one that hovered was in a northwesterly direction." "I have 7.35-millimeter binoculars, and I could not distinguish an actual shape. They were very bright and only one light per object. The sky was very clear. They were a light yellow color with a little blue tinge. No sound. The big UFO hovered over the field for about 25 minutes, then just disappeared. The others were overhead- -west to east." (Many thanks to Brian Vike and John Hayes for this report.) ANOTHER CROP CIRCLE FOUND IN ONTARIO "The second Canadian crop formation for 2003 was found yesterday, (Wednesday) July 30, near Kippen, Ontario. Discovered by a farm worker combining a field" around 12 noon. "Preliminary report of a triplet formation of three circles in wheat, the largest circle with a partial ring around it and the two smaller circles next to it." The formation "is now being extensively discussed, as a neighbouring landowner reported witnessing the three- circle formation form in about 12 seconds during a storm front which passed through the area." "The formation near Kippen is actually closer to Hensall" and "is reminiscent of the formation at Cherhill Down in England in 1993." (Many thanks to Paul Anderson of Canadian Crop Circle Research Network for this report.) That's it for this week. Join us next time for more UFO, Fortean and paranormal news from around the world, brought to you by "the paper that goes home--UFO Roundup." See you in seven days. UFO ROUNDUP: Copyright 2003 by Masinaigan Productions, all rights reserved. Readers may post news items from UFO Roundup provided that they credit the newsletter and its editor by name and list the date of issue in which the item first appeared. E-Mail Reports to: Joseph Trainor <Masinaigan@aol.com> or use the Sighting Report Form at: http://www.ufoinfo.com/forms/form_sighting.htm -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Website comments: John Hayes <webmaster@ufoinfo.com> UFOINFO: http://www.ufoinfo.com Official Archives for UFO Roundup, AUFORN Australian UFO Reports and Experiences, UFO + PSI Magazine plus archives of Humanoid Sighting Reports (Albert Rosales), Filer's Files, Oz Files, UFO News UK. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- UFO Roundup is only sent to subscribers. If you wish to unsubscribe or feel you have received the bulletin in error, please write to: <webmaster@ufoinfo.com> With the subject: Unsubscribe UFO Roundup. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 6 FOIA Appeal Letter To CIA From: Larry W. Bryant <overtci@cavtel.net> Date: Tue, 05 Aug 2003 16:16:23 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 06 Aug 2003 20:53:41 -0400 Subject: FOIA Appeal Letter To CIA To: <president@whitehouse.gov> Cc: <zaidms@aol.com> TO: Chairman CIA Records-Release Panel U. S. Central Intelligence Agency Washington, DC 20505 FROM: Larry W. Bryant 3518 Martha Custis Drive Alexandria, VA 22302 DATE: August 5, 2003 Your FOIA manager Kathryn I. Dyer's July 24, 2003, form-letter denial of my June 27, 2003, FOIA request (No. F-2003-01199) erroneously invokes statutory protections against mandatory disclosure of "intelligence sources and methods" allegedly embodied in the subject matter of my request. Erroneous because: (1) By focusing on just one records-category of my request - i.e., on the functional records pertaining to the CIA data- mining of UFO-related material possessed by foreign countries - she conveniently ignores the overriding policy- formulation/execution records governing that CIA program. By definition, as borne out by previously released CIA UFO-related records of like character (dating back to the 1950's), it would be quite easy for her to excise any intelligence sources/methods from the responsive records. Dyer's arbitrary, unlawful refusal to entertain such records segregation makes her case for nondisclosure a house of cards that, upon judicial review, will doubtless collapse under the weight of a court-ordered Vaughn affidavit. For example, the affidavit's parameters would have to include CIA documenting of the sought-for "CIRVIS reports," aircraft gun-camera film, forensic reports, and CIA-FBIS translations. (2) By ignoring the well publicized U. S. military intelligence community's decades-old conclusion that none of the officially reported/investigated UFOs/"flying saucers" have posed any threat to U. S. "national security," Dyer deflates any assertion that the sought-for records should be withheld on the grounds of protecting "national security." Indeed, were you to sustain her position, you will have contributed to the pall of national INsecurity that excessive UFO secrecy engenders in some quarters. And that INsecurity, however ill-founded, cannot help eroding public confidence in the policies, programs, and practices of such agencies as yours. If you prefer that the CIA remain at the core of the official (but as yet unjustified) cover-up of the UFO experience, then I presume you will encourage Dyer to continue stonewalling my request. But, be forewarned: full exposure of your agency's role in the UFO cover-up is but one key whistleblower away, and that day of reckoning may come sooner than any of us expect. When it arrives, how will history judge your agency's failure to seize this opportunity to help bring an end to the Ultimate Secret? For the above-stated reasons, I hereby appeal Ms. Dyer's denial of my request, and I ask that you grant this appeal as soon as possible - so as to set the stage for both national and international government-wide disclosure of UFO-E.T. reality. By snail-mail, I'm sending to you a signed printout of this e- formatted letter. Larry W. Bryant Copies furnished to: Mark S. Zaid, Esq. (Washington, D.C.) Peter Robbins, Editor-in-Chief of http://www.ufocity.com Chairman, Select Committee on Intelligence, U. S. Senate
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 6 Re: Early 19th Century Virginia Alien? - Rudiak From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2003 13:28:46 -0700 Fwd Date: Wed, 06 Aug 2003 20:54:37 -0400 Subject: Re: Early 19th Century Virginia Alien? - Rudiak >From: Kenny Young <ufo@fuse.net> >Date: Tue, 05 Aug 2003 00:32:21 -0400 >Fwd Date: Tue, 05 Aug 2003 01:35:34 -0400 >Subject: Re: Early 19th Century Virginia Alien? - Young >>From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@earthlink.net> >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2003 09:50:46 -0700 >>Subject: Early 19th Century Virginia Alien? >>I've added the following curiousity to my website other research >>section: >>http://www.roswellproof.com/19th_century_virginia_alien.html >David, List; >This image seemed to remind me of the description and drawings >of the WVA Flatwoods Monster of 1952. Image at: >http://users.ev1.net/~seektress/tin1c.jpg Kenny, Thanks for pointing this out. I've added on a comparison image to my web page and some more commentary. "...There are indeed some similarities (and differences). Both critters have a rather unusual "skirt" below and an arced, pointed "hood" or "collar" above. Both are large-eyed and round- headed. However, what I am most struck by is the round, glowing area below the head in this rendition of the Flatwood's monster. The corresponding area in the other image is also depicted as round, but with a 6-pointed "Star-of-David" inside... It is also interesting to note that Flatwoods, West Virginia. is only about 100 miles north of Washington County, Virginia..." http://www.roswellproof.com/19th_century_virginia_alien.html (I have a certain nostalgic fondness for the Flatwoods Monster story, having first read about it in 1960 and included it in a school class report.) David Rudiak
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 6 Re: Mogul 4 That Never Was - Lavoie From: Andrew Lavoie <lavoiea@rogers.com> Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2003 20:03:51 -0300 Fwd Date: Wed, 06 Aug 2003 20:58:36 -0400 Subject: Re: Mogul 4 That Never Was - Lavoie >From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais@wanadoo.fr> >To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >Date: Sat, 2 Aug 2003 18:50:02 +0200 >Subject: Re: Mogul 4 That Never Was >>From: Andrew Lavoie <lavoiea@rogers.com> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >>Date: Sat, 2 Aug 2003 01:26:01 -0300 >>Subject: Re: Mogul 4 That Never Was Gildais & List >>We know for a fact that the ML307A/AP existed, of which there is >>no mention either by the Professor and nor is it listed on the >>Signal Corps drawing. So how could there be preproduction models >>of the ML307B/AP originating from the ML307/AP and by-passing >>the fact that the ML307A/AP was in full production. ><snip> >>Not only do these facts contradict the preproduction ML307B/AP >>models but they also put into question the validity of the >>flowered tape scenario because Professor Moore's historical >>account of the ML307 is not correct and neither is the Air >>Force's historical account. >Andrew and List, >I am willing to believe that professor Charles Moore made >mistakes. Actually, I am convinced that his Mogul 4 story >is all wrong : there was no Mogul 4 flight! >However, I am not sure to understand your logic here. >I don't see why the fact that the ML 307A/AP was in production >in 1944 prevented to study improvements, in a sort of "pre >production" model for the ML307B/AP. >Why not? Would it suit you better if we call it a prototype >series or some sort ? If we were to accept that Professor Moore errored and totally missed the fact that there was an ML307A/AP and that the Signal Laboratory Group forgot to mention the ML307A/AP on the drawing than why would the signal group ever accept the ML307/AP design in June 1944 if it didn't work and why would the NYU group use targets that didn't work, it just doesn't make any sense. These were the first production models that often broke up in flight according to Moore's account. I suppose you could consider these to be preproduction models to the ML307B/AP assuming that they didn't know about the ML307A/AP models. But these preproduction models were no good. They fixed one of the problems via a manufacturing company, who noboby remembers the name of, by reinforcing the targets using a flower patterned tape of some sort because it was the only tape available at the time by the manufacturer according to Moore's account. Keep in mind that Professor Moore said that the maufacturer reportedly used not necessarily that he did use tape with a flower pattern. So now that the target is opeartional, the Signal Group incorporate the changes on the drawing on November 21, 1944, which means that the ML307B/AP had to have been tested and accepted prior to November 21st. Some where within the same time frame, June 9/1944 to November 21,1944, the ML307A/AP was built, tested and manufactured and yet was never mentioned by the Air Force. Than preproduction units of the ML307B/AP were built and tested in the same time frame. It would appear to me that there wouldn't have been sufficient time to have preproduction or prototype models of the ML307B/AP if the ML307A/AP was involved, which according to the Air Force did not exist. Than to top this, they were still shipping the ML307/AP targets on a regular basis from October 1944 to January 1945 to the Dayton(Ohio) Signal Corps Supply Agency, according to Moore's account. Why would the Air Force allow the manufacturer to continue to send out the old ML307/AP's that had problems when they had a later version approved by the Signal Corps. This makes no sense. Another interesting detail is how many targets were shipped out using flowered tape for reinforcement? Than two and half years later the NYU team obtain preproduction ML307B targets from left over stock in Alamogordo, the ones that didn't work. I think that's really grasping at straws. >>In an earlier posting it was mentioned that Mac had described >>that he had found flowered tape of some sort in the debris. Did >>he not also say that what he found was not any weather >>observation balloon? Does this not also concur with General >>Ramey's comment to Major Kirton, that none of the men on this >>base believe it was weather balloon debris. >I think you are mixing together different things here. The fact >that we have to explain is that Brazel described flowered tape. >Here is a question now: >if there was no flowered taped targets around, where did that >come from? The question you raise here is a good one and I don't have a concrete answer. The first place that it appears is in the RDR article. The article did not specifically state how the flowered tape was used in it's construction only that it was involved in it's construction, if that's what is was, there was very little of it as compared to the scoth tape. What strilkes me the most about the article on Brazel is how well all of the questions that one would come up with are covered or answered, right down to stating that there was no metal in the area that would account for an engine or a propeller. Someone was definitely anticipating the questions that would be asked. >An economic answer is that, yes, there were such targets, and >Brazel found one. But it is no proof at all of Mogul 4. It was, >most probably, from a modest balloon cluster. >Now, the fact that Brazel said it was not a weather balloon >may be explained in various ways: >it was perhaps a little act of rebellion at the end of his >interview, like his alleged mention of "little green men" to >Frank Joyce, according to him. >Or perhaps he just meant that this balloon debris was somewhat >different. Perhaps it was the truth and it was Brazel's last ditch effort to get the truth out. >As for the words of General Ramey to Major Kirton, I am quite >ready to believe that he said that. But why do you mix that with >the flowered tape problem? It would just mean that Ramey allowed >himself a little personal comment, at one point, about the >cover-up. A vert powerful personal comment. Why would he say it if it were not true. >BTW, could you give the source of that information ? I don't >know it. The source of the information was from "The Daily News" in St. John's Newfoundland, Canada, July 10, 1947. I came across the article while I was researching the Roswell incident in the Newfoundland papers. The artical is rare because in all of the articles I have researched across Canada and all of the articles that David Rudiak has researched in the US, this is the only article where there was any reference by Gneral Ramey that none of the men on his base believed that the debris was from a weather balloon. The complete article is available on David Rudiak's web site at the following URL. http://www.roswellproof.homestead.com/Reuters.html Best regards, Andrew
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 6 Art & UFOs? No Thanks Only Art From: Eustaquio Anddrea Patounas <socex@terra.com.br> Date: Tue, 05 Aug 2003 22:11:43 -0300 Fwd Date: Wed, 06 Aug 2003 21:04:19 -0400 Subject: Art & UFOs? No Thanks Only Art http://www.sprezzatura.it/Arte/Arte_UFO_eng.htm
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 6 Re: Gordon Creighton (FSR) - 1908 - 2003 - From: Joe McGonagle <joe@ufology.org.uk> Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2003 02:36:21 +0100 Fwd Date: Wed, 06 Aug 2003 21:06:47 -0400 Subject: Re: Gordon Creighton (FSR) - 1908 - 2003 - >From: Graham W. Birdsall - UFO Magazine [UK] <gwb@ufomag.co.uk> >To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 18:37:24 +0100 >Subject: Gordon Creighton (FSR) - 1908 - 2003 >From the Editor Of UFO Magazine (Uk) >The death has been announced of Gordon Creighton, who died this >morning (Wednesday, 16 July, 2003). He was aged 95. <snip> Gordon Creighton drew a measure of criticism, mainly related to his peculiar beliefs regarding UFOs. I never had the pleasure of meeting him, but I am in no doubt that in spite of his failings, he did make valuable contributions to ufology especially in regard to the translation of foreign reports. I visited the FSR site at: http://www.fsr.org.uk and it seems to be frozen in time, with most of the pages credited to him, and no mention of his demise that I could find. I sincerely hope that his passing does not also mark the end of FSR. I have just renewed my lapsed subscription and intend to write at least one article for it in the next few months. I am sure that any similar support would help to secure a future for the magazine during this difficult time. Joe
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 6 Follow-up With Beverly Gleason From: Kenny Young <ufo@fuse.net> Date: Wed, 06 Aug 2003 06:10:09 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 06 Aug 2003 21:16:05 -0400 Subject: Follow-up With Beverly Gleason This afternoon I placed a second call to Beverly Gleason at her home in Easton, Maryland. We spoke for about 15-minutes and I asked if she could recall, for certain, if Esquire Magazine was the first to print her story about Richard Nixon showing comedian Jackie Gleason, her late husband, alien bodies after a golf game while at Homestead Air Force Base in Florida. Beverly said that she is certain that it was Esquire Magazine that first printed the story, and went on to describe how the article was the front page cover story of Esquire, carrying a picture of Jackie and some text regarding UFOs. She also said that the reporter who did the story still works there, and she could only recall his first name perhaps being "Ben." She said that in the years after the Esquire report, other publications picked up the story - some of them she thought, directly from Esquire. Going back to the Gleason/Nixon meetings for golf in Florida, she couldn't remember any specific date they met but said that her relationship with Jackie Gleason was good during that time frame. She said that she had even met with President Nixon herself, meeting him near a pool and having a drink with him. She said that later, at the time of the Esquire article, her relationship with Jackie was not good. "I'll be honest with you, about the time the article appeared Jack and I were breaking up," she said. "And when he saw the Esquire article that just finished everything." I asked her about the reports she had planned to write a book and whether or not she ever prepared a manuscript. She said that she did not have any written manuscript at any time and nothing otherwise prepared. There is nothing she had ever prepared in writing, she said, to document this first-hand. "At the time Jack came home after his meeting with The President, he was so giddy and excited about seeing these little men," she said, "but in the years afterward I began to ask myself if any of this could really be true or if he was just telling me that... perhaps having been 'out' with someone?" I asked her if she could recall any of his words, a more complete description of the 'little men' or any information such as where they came from or crashed, and Beverly laughed and reminded me of how many years ago this was. She then answered by saying: "you would be best off to find that Esquire article, that probably contains my closest recollection of anything he said." I told Beverly that in addition to doing research, I also was involved in writing and producing television documentaries. I asked her if she would feel comfortable going 'on camera' with this story and said that it would be tremendous to preserve her comments and experience on videotape. She said that she was not interested in going on television and thought the story concerning the 'little men' should be authenticated first. I said that the only real 'authentication' would come if the government announced having the bodies and she said "I guess you're right, but I guess I just don't want to go on camera with this." I thanked her for talking with me and she again suggested I find the Esquire magazine article. Filed, AUGUST 6, 2003 Kenny Young
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 6 Radio Station Lays Claim To Crop Circles From: Jeff Westover <frequentflier66@yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2003 05:02:07 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Wed, 06 Aug 2003 21:31:05 -0400 Subject: Radio Station Lays Claim To Crop Circles Source: The Detroit Free Press http://www.freep.com/news/mich/hoax6_20030806.htm August 6, 2003 Radio station lays claim to farmer's crop circles By Shawn Windsor Free Press Staff Writer The mystery is solved. Maybe. A Detroit radio station said two of its employees created the three crop circles that have caused a stir after their discovery two weeks ago by a Howell Township wheat farmer. But some people don't believe the radio station WKQI-FM (95.5 FM), which is known for its publicity stunts, is responsible for the circles. The station apologized on-air for duping Mike Esper, the farmer, and news media, including the Free Press. Tuesday's Free Press carried a front-page story about the throngs of people coming to Esper's farm. "The radio station doesn't owe us an apology," said Free Press executive editor Carole Leigh Hutton. "Our story didn't take the position that the crop circles were real. It was about the people who go out in response to the circles." But she also said the story wasn't skeptical enough. "I thought it was too subtle," Hutton said. It quoted a crop-circle researcher saying the circles were not a man-made hoax. Jeffrey Wilson of Dexter had speculated the circles were the result of natural phenomena. Wilson said he doesn't understand why people are taking the station's claim seriously. "It just sounds like they are trying to get ratings," he said Tuesday. I "stand behind the analysis. There are unhoaxable plant anomalies in those circles. Their claim will not hold up." Esper doesn't believe the station, either. He said several groups, including some Howell teens, also claimed responsibility for the circles. "If they did do it," he said, "then they owe me money." Crop circles have shown up in farmers' fields worldwide for decades. They have been discredited for just as long. Anyone with wood planks and rope can create the perfect diameter to smash down crops. Despite this, thousands of people around the world flock to the circles looking for inspiration or a trace of another world. The most famous crop-circle hoax, which spawned an international craze for the patterns in crushed wheat, was perpetrated in England by Doug Bower and Dave Chorley. From the late 1970s until they revealed their long-running prank in the early 1990s, the pair of friends zipped around the English countryside with boards and rope, knocking down ripe grain in geometric patterns. "But after a while, the whole crop-circle thing nearly died out," said Michael Shermer, editor of Skeptic Magazine and one of the nation's leading debunkers of exotic phenomena. "I hadn't received any calls about mysterious crop circles in a couple of years, then the Mel Gibson movie, 'Signs,' came out and I said: 'Oh, boy! Here we go again,' " Shermer said. The Michigan circles, Shermer said, were so basic that it was a clear indication that "these guys probably had never done it before. Creating the more beautiful ones takes a lot of practice." When asked if he has heard of any scientist connected with a major university still studying the origins of crop circles, Shermer laughed. "That would be pseudoscience, not real science." The radio station said two sidekicks, known as Gallagher and Corky on the "Buck Head Show" told their bosses they went to Esper's wheat field at 3 a.m. July 14 with a rope and wood planks to make the circles. Esper wondered why they would pick his farm for the hoax. He said it didn't make sense to him. Radio station officials said they thought the hoax would be judged as one immediately. When asked if he was worried his sidekicks could be charged with trespassing and destroying part of Esper's wheat, Buck Head, who wouldn't give his real name, said the pair has done worse. Contact SHAWN WINDSOR at 313-222-6487 or windsor@freepress.com. Staff writers David Crumm and John Smyntek contributed to this report. ===== "As a rule, I always look for what others ignore." --Marshall McLuhan "We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light." -- Plato
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 6 Filer's Files #32 -- 2003 From: George A. Filer <Majorstar@aol.com> Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2003 09:47:22 EDT Fwd Date: Wed, 06 Aug 2003 21:34:59 -0400 Subject: Filer's Files #32 -- 2003 Filer's Files #32 -- 2003 Skywatch Investigations. George A. Filer, Director Mutual UFO Network Eastern August 6, 2003, Majorstar@aol.com Webmaster: Chuck Warren -- My website is at: www.GeorgeFiler.com/ Sponsored by: OPC-3 SIGHTINGS CONTINUE IN NY, DC, and CHICAGO The purpose of these files is to report the UFO eyewitness and photo/video evidence that occurs on a daily basis around the world and in space. Panspermia is spreading life throughout the Universe, Mars - has strange spots, New York - formation of lights, New Jersey - upright cylinder, Pennsylvania - tube changes to a saucer, Washington, DC - chevron-shaped craft glides over capital, North Carolina - maneuvering lights sighted, Ohio - daylight disc photographed, Michigan - two crop circles, Illinois - small hovering object over Chicago, Louisiana - large flying triangle, Kansas - Brilliant white daylight flying saucer, California - amber light maneuvers, Oregon - daylight sphere takes off after an hour, Washington - a sphere hits a plane and keeps flying, Canada - UFOs help tourism, Argentina - more mutilated cattle, UK - Royal Air Force interceptors chase UFO, Netherlands - six unusual lights, Croatia - light ball hovers then charges towards viewers. PANSPERMIA: SPREADING LIFE THROUGHOUT THE UNIVERSE? Seth Shostak of the SETI Institute writes, "The conventional wisdom is that Earthly life began=E2=C7=A6 on Earth." A few decades ago, many scientists believed (as did Charles Darwin) that terrestrial life first appeared in "some warm little pond." Today's astrobiologists are less fond of ponds, and more likely to suggest that biology began in the hot, sulfurous thicket of a deep-sea vent. But there is a controversial alternative to this life from hell scenario. It's life from heaven. Or if not from heaven, at least from the stars. About 25 years ago, two British astronomers, Fred Hoyle and Chandra Wickramsinghe, proposed that comets might be the Johnny Appleseeds of life, carrying vital spores from star system to star system, an idea that is known today as panspermia. If the tail of such a life-loaded comet were to brush the Earth, it might pass some of its frozen microorganisms into the atmosphere where they could descend to our planet's surface. The two astronomers suggested panspermia could spread disease. Now you might wonder whether life from space, as intriguing as the idea might be, solves the mystery of how biology got started in the first place. Or does this theory merely push the problem of life's origin into someone else's lap? Well, of course, to some extent it only accomplishes the latter. But there is an appealing aspect to panspermia: it allows life to be widespread, even if the genesis of life is a difficult and rare event. After all, humans cover the planet, even though Homo sapiens got his start in only one locale (Africa, presumably.) Life might blanket the Galaxy even if it only sprung up on a small number of worlds. Jayant Narlikar, of the Inner-University Centre for Astronomy and Astrophysics in Pune, India, claims to have data in support of panspermia. Narlikar recently flew an experiment in a high-altitude balloon. On board was a cryogenic sampler consisting of 16 cylinders that were pumped out and decontaminated before launch. As the balloon climbed into the Indian sky, puffs of air were sucked in. One by one, the cylinders were automatically filled with samples from various altitudes, ranging from 25 to 41 km. Once the payload returned to Earth, it was examined in biology labs in Cardiff and Sheffield, England. To their amazement, the researchers found evidence for live cells in the samples from 41 km. Even more interesting, these "bacteria" recovered at high altitude were non-culturable and could not be grown in laboratory Petri dishes. According to Narlikar, this was important in ruling out laboratory contamination of the samples -- the cells found were clearly not a common lab bacterium. Narlikar emphasizes that this is the first attempt to demonstrate that biological systems exist at such heights. But he admits that he still doesn't know if the biology he's found comes from above or below. After all, perhaps all he's found are high-flying, single-celled earthlings. But the Indian researcher seems confident that they've come from above, because atmospheric scientists have told him that even during the strongest volcanic eruptions, ash is ejected to heights no more than 32 km. So the fact that he's found something at 41 km, and during a period when there were no volcanic eruptions, speaks to the real possibility of an extraterrestrial origin. There is the possibility that a disease like SARS may have come from space? "We sent a letter to Lancet, the medical journal," Narlikar says, "suggesting that these things are percolating from atmospheric heights down to Earth. Clearly, they would reach the tallest peaks first (the Himalayas - and thanks to the wind - into China.) So we suggested that this might be the origin of the SARS virus." Thanks to the SETI Institute STRANGE FORTUNE COOKIE SPOTS ON MARS There is no place like Mars for fueling speculation about geologic features that must have been created by intelligent beings. Now scientists bring us the Fortune Cookie photo. It's doubtful this newly released image will rise to the level of controversy that surrounds features like The Face or Inca City. "Some are shaped like fortune cookies," said scientists at Malin Space Science Systems. The Mars Global Surveyor probably imaged wind blown hills in this north polar region but they could be something else? http://www.space.com/imageoftheday/image_of_day_030731.html www.GeorgeFiler.com/ views. NEW YORK - FORMATION OF MOVING LIGHTS MANHATTAN -- The witness reports, "My friend and I saw a strange black object rise over the west side of Manhattan on at 9:19 PM, on July 17, 2003." The object proceeded to float eastward over the East River, like "a string of illuminated pearls" trailing this black balloon-esque object. The strings were stationary and just trailing the object. Thanks to Peter Davenport QUEENS - The witness reports, "My friends and I were sitting outside looking into the sky on July 19, 2003, at 9:36 PM when we saw a light moving really fast." At first I thought it was a shooting star, but than all of a sudden it went out like someone flipped a switch and turned it off. The object kept fading in and out, until it finally disappeared. About two minutes later, we saw a real brute moving pretty fast. My friend put up his telescope and all we saw was a light that we felt wasn't a plane. Finally at about 9:48 PM, it zoomed off traveling east. Thanks to Peter Davenport NUFORC NEW JERSEY - STRANGE UPRIGHT CYLINDER OVER MANHATTAN JERSEY CITY -- Two witnesses were on the roof at 6:30 PM, watching the Manhattan skyline on July 19, 2003, when they noticed an upright cylindrical object appear from the Southwest tip of Manhattan. It ascended slowly and without sound, maintaining constant ascent and flight path towards the center of Manhattan. It changed shape and color several times before it disappeared behind the clouds. The object had a whitish/gray matte finish with a trace of red color, perhaps due to the setting sun. Its redness seemed to intensify as it climbed higher. The object was relatively big, half a thumbnail size at arm's length and flew at between 10,000 to 35,000 feet. The cylinder maintained its amazing upright posture throughout its flight and had no light emissions. Thanks to Peter Davenport NUFORC PENNSYLVANIA - TUBE CHANGES INTO A SAUCER LEOLA - On July 17, 2003, the boys were playing lacrosse outside when one looked up to catch the ball and noticed a strange flying object in the sky. He says, "I pointed toward the object and my friend also saw it." At 5:15 PM, we thought it looked like a flying tube, but then it turned towards us looking like a disk or saucer high above us. From what we could see it was silver and also reflected the sun back towards us. After turning back and forth a few times it kept flying away from us and vanished. Thanks to Peter Davenport NUFORC WASHINGTON, DC - CHEVRON SHAPED CRAFT GLIDES OVER CAPITAL RESTRICTED AIRSPACE -- On July 22, 2003, the witness states, "I turned off the lights in my apartment about 9:30 PM, on my way to bed, and was startled to see out my window, what looked at first to be a large passenger jet passing low over the apartment building." I live in the middle of Washington, DC, and this is restricted airspace so passenger jets never fly over this building. "I raced to the window and pulled out the screen, and saw what looked like a giant boomerang, with several flashing lights around its edge, flying low, slow, and silently toward the west." When it reached the Potomac River, it turned south and continued until it was out of sight. Thanks to Peter Davenport NUFORC NORTH CAROLINA - MANEUVERING REDDISH LIGHT OUTER BANKS -- The family was staying in a rented beach house and on July 28, 2003, about 10 PM, they noticed a very bright object in the dark sky above the Atlantic Ocean. The witness states, "It was about a 45 degrees above the ocean and had a reddish color, as it moved slowly at first to my right, the object then moved back to its previous spot and from there it traveled up at a 75 degree angle and finally stopped about 100 feet from its previous location." I continually watched this object for about two hours and at first I hesitated to call this object a UFO because, after all, it could easily have been a plane or a helicopter, but neither of these explanations seem plausible because the object was moving at speeds, either far too fast or far too slow for any commercial helicopter or plane. The object also moved at angles dissimilar to planes, jets, and helicopters. My uncle and two brothers also saw this UFO and concurred that what I was watching seemed to be an object that met absolutely no criteria for any air borne objects known to the public (that does not include military). So I am forced to believe that what I saw was either a military plane or a UFO, the former seems far more likely. The second sighting occurred while my uncle and younger brother were walking on the beach August 2 at around 10 PM. They watched an object similar to the one we had seen on the 28th. Apparently the object began to sway backwards and forwards as if it were searching for something. They watched it move off to their right at a very high rate of speed and then return to the previous spot at a lesser speed. This time the object sped off at an incredibly high rate of speed and disappeared into the nighttime sky. There were no clouds on either night. I am 17 years old and live in Virginia. Anyone who would like to discuss the event in further detail or who would like to relate a story similar to mine please feel free to email me at vpenv88@hotmail.com. Thanks to spymaninvasion@yahoo.com. Editor's Note. Mars was rising in the ESE evening sky and remains highly visible in the southern sky all night and appears reddish. However, it does not maneuver. OHIO - DAYLIGHT DISC PHOTOGRAPHED FOSTORIA - George Ritter writes, "I photographed a dark disc in the gray overcast sky at about 4 PM on Saturday, August 2, 2003. It was moving at high speed just above the trees. It appears to be about 25 feet in diameter. Thanks to George Ritter. See views www.GeorgeFiler.com/ MICHIGAN - CROP CIRCLES HOWELL -- Two crop circles were discovered on July 28, 2003, in an 80-acre wheat field southwest of the city. The first one was 50 feet in diameter with a short protrusion on both the east and the west side. The second circle was only four feet in diameter. The wheat was laid down in counterclockwise fashion. The farmer who discovered them says that they must have been generated sometime between July 10 to 24th. He likened it to the film Signs with Mel Gibson. In his opinion, it was not the work of pranksters, because there were no footprints in the field, and he was amazed at the precision of the circular patterns ruling out natural weather phenomena. Thanks to Doug Parrish dkparrish@comcast.net ILLINOIS - SMALL HOVERING OBJECT OVER THE EASTERN SKY OF CHICAGO BATAVIA - The witness was looking at a plane in the eastern sky on July 19, 2003, when he saw a small silver object that was moving slowly across the sky at 4 PM. He told his wife, sister, and Nanna to look. The object stopped and hovered in the same place for at least 15 minutes. It was very small, but it definitely was not a plane or balloon because it didn't move. We know it wasn't a helicopter. The witness took several digital pictures, but I couldn't see if he was getting a good shot even with 8 x optical lens. Thanks to Peter Davenport NUFORC LOUISIANA - LARGE FLYING TRIANGLE SHREVEPORT - The witness was driving home at 9:30 PM, after picking up a pizza on July 21, 2003. He states, "While going down the road I thought I saw some helicopters, but they looked strange because their lights were so dim." After I looked a little more closely I realized it was just one large flying triangle with rounded edges and had really dim lights going around it. There were 10 to 15 steady lights that were not blinking or changing. The craft appeared to be pretty large and far away and flew laterally very easily. Thanks to Peter Davenport NUFORC KANSAS - BRILLIANT DAYLIGHT FLYING SAUCER ELSMORE - The witness was driving along the highway between the city of Moran and Elsmore on July 21, 2003, when an object in the shape of a flying saucer appeared to lift off from a rural farm and moved across a field at 2:06 PM. The object was a pure and brilliant white with no visible lights and was flying very low and very slow. It was 20 feet off the ground and flying west then it made a sharp turn north with no sound. Then it ascended slowly, accelerated quickly, and then disappeared. Thanks to Peter Davenport NUFORC IDAHO - LOW FLYING GREEN ORBS TWIN FALLS - The witness was riding his motorcycle east on July 18, 2003, at 10 PM, when out of the corner of his eye he saw a flashing green light. He states, "I turned to my right and saw two or three green flashing orbs about a half-mile away." They were moving away from me and I didn't think too much about it since I thought the local airport had runway approach lights. A few minutes later, I was returning on the same road and I saw the lights again. This time they were on the other side of the road and coming towards me. They passed to the right about 150 yards away and were flying 25 feet above the ground. They were green in color and flashing like a strobe about one flash every two seconds. They looked to be traveling at about 75 to 100 mph. I stopped to get some gas and one stopped about a half mile away, hovering and flashing. After I filled up, I drove toward it, and it started moving again. It was gone by the time I got to its former location. I called the 911 Center to inquire if anyone else had reported seeing these things. The dispatcher told me no one had called that night, but about a week earlier a policeman reported seeing similar lights. Thanks to Peter Davenport NUFORC CALIFORNIA - AMBER LIGHT MANEUVERS SAN DIEGO -- Jan Kregers writes, "With the monsoon flow bending in our direction this summer, I have had good viewing on a few nights both last week and this week." I am continuing to see oddly moving star-like lights, that I was also observing last summer. They range in color from a very bright almost blue-white through amber to a cigarette-ember orangey-red. I watch on clear nights from about 8:30 to 11 PM. On July 22, 2003, about halfway through my viewing session, I spotted an amber-colored dot flying in from the west. It was to the north, and as it drew level with me, I thought, 'Hmm, this one is really bright! I wonder if it's a satellite, reflecting towards me? Just as I had this thought, the dot made a sudden 90-degree turn, and started heading away from me to the north. What was odd about the turn was that the dot was moving relatively slowly before and immediately after the turn, and the turn itself was a sudden 'hiccup' of movement. I was thinking, 'Well, this is no satellite judging by what it just did. Then the dot made another abrupt 45-degree angle to the right and kept heading away from me to the northeast. The second turn had the same 'skippy' quality to it as the first one: at first it was going north and then suddenly it just jumped and was going northeast at the same leisurely pace. It was a very odd thing to watch. It was moving fairly slowly and I kept it in sight for four minutes. First, I watched it by eye and then with binoculars until I finally lost it in the city light-haze. Even though it was around 9:45 PM, I never saw the dot go into Earth shadow as it traveled northeast. It stayed bright until I lost it in the haze and distance. Regards, Jan Kregers, CA OREGON - DAYLIGHT SPHERE, "TAKES OFF" AFTER AN HOUR PORTLAND -- On Thursday, July 17, 2003, myself and three coworkers (all engineers) were golfing when Chris spotted a strange craft. We looked up into a clear blue sky at 3:15 PM, to see a stationary object at about a 55=C2=B0 angle. The object gave off a "silvery" reflective light that looked like it was undulating or rotating in an irregular fashion because of the variations in light emissions. As we watched it became apparent to us, that it was not a small helium balloon and was hovering over us. This thing was very high since planes coming from PDX appeared to be flying way below it, and it wasn't moving. I watched the object in between golf shots as we played. About an hour and fifteen minutes later as we neared the last hole, Chris again brought the object to our attention. It appeared to be in the same area of the sky, but was even smaller (or higher) than before. I took my eyes off of it for a second, when Chris said, "He saw it move to the right about eight inches at arm's length and was now quickly climbing away." This thing was very puzzling. Many other people had to observe this object, as it was CLEARLY visible for at least an hour and fifteen minutes. Thanks to Peter Davenport NUFORC WASHINGTON - A SPHERE HITS A PLANE BUT KEEPS TRAVELING DUPONT - The witness went to bed around 2 AM, on July 18, 2003, when he noticed three hanging orange lights spaced at intervals, emitting a saucer-shaped glow. They slowly changed into a triangle shaped pattern as he watched for thirty minutes. The lights were quite high in the sky so he ran out back to get a better view. He says, "When I opened the back door, my Mom heard the noise and came out to view the lights and was amazed as well. She felt it was something to do with Ft. Lewis that is a mile from our house. The shape changed, or rather the angle changed as I went out back to get a better look. From then on, it just looked like a blob of three vaguely orange lights in a triangle pattern. Within 15 minutes, it had moved to my right and the orangeness emitted a glow. Together, the three orange lights formed a saucer shaped halo in the sky. It was completely unique and the aura caught my attention. Thanks to Peter Davenport PORT ANGELES -- On July 21, 2003, the first plane, possibly an F-16 fighter, came from the south and passed overhead at 9:10 PM, and turned east towards Seattle. The witness began filming because the fighter was making a pink contrail in the sunset. He then videotaped a second aircraft, heading north, crossing the Straights into Canada. The witness states, "As I watched through my viewfinder, I saw a round unidentified object fly from the east to the west towards a second jet plane, and appeared to hit it. Just before the round object hit the belly of the jet plane the lights on both wings and the tail flashed on together. The round object went under the facing wing and out the back. He says, "What looks like spray can be seen on the videotape, and the round object can again be seen leaving the tail of the aircraft and continuing west." Thanks to Peter Davenport NUFORC CANADA - UFO's HELP TOURISM TERRACE STANDARD NEWS -- Jennifer Lang reports, Terrace's reputation as British Columbia's UFO capital is creating a new kind of tourism boom in the region. Curious travelers from across North America are inquiring about the tourism facilities in communities across Highway 16, says a UFO researcher based in Houston, B.C. "You would be surprised just how many emails I get requesting information for our area", says Brian Vike, editor of Canadian Communicator, a magazine specializing in the paranormal, and director of HBCC-UFO Research. Earlier this year, Terrace cracked the Top Ten in a national UFO survey, earning third place, just ahead of Houston, where Vike operates a toll-free UFO hotline, so he can collect and investigate eyewitness reports. "Terrace recorded the third highest number of UFO sightings in the country last year, bringing national and international attention to the region," Vike says. The resulting publicity means the Northwest is rapidly emerging as one of the best places to see UFOs in Canada. Savvy tourists know they're more likely to see a flying saucer than the elusive Kermode bear, the white form of a black bear that is the city's official symbol. Vike says he's often contacted by UFO buffs and the just plain curious who want to know about the region's tourist attractions and accommodations. snip http://www.terracestandard.com/portals-code/list.cgi? TERRACE, BC - Brian Vike reports, "The gentleman was sitting outside on his porch at 11:30 PM, on July 27, 2003, and ten degrees above the treeline he spotted a great big bright white light moving very slowly." He said the light was at least three times brighter than the planet Venus and flew in a northerly direction for three seconds when the light just faded out. TERRACE -- A witness called to tell Brian, "My wife and I were watching vehicle traffic entering the town on July 24, 2003, from our mountain home when we saw a large glowing/oblong shaped object moving slowly along Highway 16." "It was heading north at 11:45 PM, near the Skeena River but it was flying way too low for any plane to fly at night," he said. Eventually the object made a sudden move, or jerked across the highway and came to a stop. It would stop for a split second, then start moving again. As it moved ahead it would slide back just a bit, and then travel ahead. It was sitting in a stationary position, then gained a little altitude and shot off towards the west at an incredible rate of speed. Last year, his grown children and he watched as a huge glowing/golden colored "thing" flew over Terrace fairly quickly. Thanks to Brian Vike, Director HBCC UFO Research 1 866 262 1989 - Editor: Canadian Communicator - Paranormal Magazine Website: CANADA HBCC ARGENTINA - CATTLE MUTILATIONS CONTINUE RIO NEGRO ON LINE -- The cattle mutilations caper, which was brought to a close last year when officials explained that the cattle were attacked -- after dying -- by a strange red mouse, continues to be a source of bewilderment in Valle Medio as mutilated animals continue to appear. On July 24, 2003, a veterinarian and a farmhand from a local Sociedad Rural ranch found a cow -- showing incisions similar to the ones seen last year. The animal had clear signs of mutilation: it was missing an eye, its udders and its reproductive organs. These had been removed with surgical precision and there were no tracks near the animal. "As a whole, whenever an animal dies a natural death there is much kicking, or rigor mortis sets in shortly afterward, but there is nothing like that here," stated an astonished Enrique S=C3=A1nchez of the Sociedad Rural. Veterinarian Carlos Montobbio pointed out that "the animal was found in the El Gualeguay ranch belonging to Arsenio Ferrarino, a rural cattleman with years of experience who had never seen anything like it." Thanks to Scott Corrales, Institute of Hispanic Ufology for the Translation (C) 2003 UK/ENGLAND - ROYAL AIR FORCE INTERCEPTORS CHASE UFO RAF BAWDSEY -- John Cotton writes, "I was a National Service Fighter Plotter stationed at RAF Bawdsey, a GCI site, and one night in late 1954, we were in the middle of an exercise when over the intercom came the radar sighting of an unidentified flying object." At the time I was working in the RT recording area. As soon as the Meteor NF11s interceptors we were controlling were sent to investigate, I started recording the intercept. This is the normal procedure. As the interceptors approached and got visual contact with the target they reported that it was a stationary object (confirmed by radar) and "saucer like" in shape. On being ordered to approach closer the target shot off at high speed and then hovered again. The second time the fighters neared, the target went straight up at very high speed until they disappeared off the Type 13 height RADAR. I like many others in the "hole", had gone into a Control Cabin that wasn't in use to see this phenomena. The Chief Controller that night (either Flt Lt Jack Smith or Flt Lt Clifford) asked to hear the recording of the interception, but for the first time we could remember, there was no recording. It was a simple system of a continuous loop of clear film on which the voices and a time signal were "scratched" and supposedly fool proof. The following morning we were not allowed to sleep in, but had to parade for the CO to remind us that the Official Secrets Act applied to events of the previous night. Later that day, the CC tried to get in contact with the two pilots concerned at their airfield, but were told they had gone on leave! There was an unconfirmed rumor that the aircraft were contaminated by radiation. It was also confirmed that there were no weather balloons being launched in the vicinity. That was the last we heard of it. This is not the same incident as has been reported in the same area in, I think 1956, involving Mildenhall and Woodbridge. My wife, who was the CCs assistant at the time, confirms this incident, but from a different viewpoint. "It was such a vivid experience that I can still picture it after (heaven forbid) 50 years!" Thanks to 2590718 SAC John Cotton NEWCASTLE UPON TYNE - The witnesses were in the back garden on July 20, 2003, at 1:30 AM, looking at the stars, when they saw a bright white light traveling across the sky at extremely high altitude. They report, "It was traveling too fast to be an aeroplane and there was no engine sound." The first sighting took one minute to travel across the sky to the base of the Big Dipper. The light was not steady, as it would be, if it had been an aeroplane. The light appeared unsteady and wobbly. The second sighting took place fifteen minutes later, when a light slightly duller and lower light in the sky flew past. I am confident that this also was not an aeroplane as there were no wing lights or sound. Thanks to Peter Davenport NUFORC NETHERLANDS - SIX UNUSUAL LIGHTS ROOSENDAAL - The witness was spotting satellites on July 19, 2003, when he suddenly noticed six faint lights in the sky (far fainter than the satellite at 22:42 UT). He states, "I was already quite use to the low light environment or else I doubt if I would have seen them." They were around 80 degrees up in the sky to the south and they disappeared around 45 degrees to the southeast. Their speed seemed to stay the same, but they moved a little faster than standard satellites. I've confirmed with a normal satellite that this was about the height where they went into the shadow of the earth. The thing which disturbed me most was that there were six objects flying near each other in formation with some little shifting back and forward as you see in formation flight in air shows. HAELEN -- We saw four lights flying with high speed on July 19, 2003, moving north at 11:30 PM. One of the four crafts made sudden movements through the formation. We don't think they were aircraft because of their altitude and movements. Thanks to Peter Davenport NUFORC CROATIA - LIGHT BALL HOVERS THEN CHARGES TOWARDS US MLJET, SOLINE - The witnesses went for a walk after dinner on July 17, 2003, and saw a bright tiny light hovering above the shore at 9:15 PM. They reported, "We couldn't figure out what it was, but it started flying towards us at high speed, faster than I have ever seen before." The light became about the size of a volleyball, but didn't look like an electrical light. It was very solid and bright. My friend and I were frozen to the ground, and all we could think was, "Go away, we were scared, because the object was completely silent, no wind and just so different from anything else we have ever seen." After the light became the size of volleyball, it started to move away from us to about the size of a prune, and then it vanished. We ran back to the hotel and asked the locals, if they know anything about strange lights at night. Nobody knew about this light. Thanks to Peter Davenport NUFORC HELP FOR FIBROMYALGIA Joan Romano writes, "I have fibromyalgia and my sister-in-law does also." I started taking OPC-3 about a year ago and she also did shortly after me. I experienced dramatic results with my fatigue within a week. It took a week for her to see the swelling going down in her legs and feeling better with the muscle aches. I started with two caps a day and now I take two in the AM and two in evening, My sister in law was only taking one cap a day and has increased to two caps a day. She just told me, a few days ago, that she has realized that in the last three weeks, she has been pain free! It looks like OPC-3 is doing its job in scavenging those free radical cells. When I am having a bad day, I add a few more capfuls. Hope this helps. Thanks to Joan Romano Clinton, CT Isotonix OPC-3, is a patented break thru in winning the war against aging and disease. It is a powerful combination of plant-derived bioflavonoids. Its made from a unique combination of grape seed, pine bark, red wine extracts, in addition to bilberry and citrus extracts. These OPC's are super-effective free radical neutralizers. They can change your life, they did mine! OPC-3 WHAT YOU SHOULD KNOW WHEN BUY OR SELL REAL ESTATE! Get your free report and learn how you can obtain the best real estate agent to help your buy or sell a home. To get a free copy of this report e-mail me at : Majorstar@aol.com MUFON UFO JOURNAL -- For more detailed monthly investigative reports subscribe to the MUFON JOURNAL. A MUFON membership includes the Journal and costs only $35.00 per year. To join MUFON or to report a UFO go to http://www.mufon.com/. To ask questions contact MUFONHQ@aol.com or HQ@mufon.com. Mention that I recommended you for membership. "The MUFON Journal is now accepting qualified advertising, please call 1 (303) 932-7709 for more information." Filer's Files is copyrighted 2003 by George A. Filer, all rights reserved. Readers may post the COMPLETE files on their Web Sites if they credit the Newsletter and its editor by name and list the date of issue. These reports and comments are not necessarily the OFFICIAL MUFON viewpoint. Send your letters to Majorstar@aol.com. Sending mail automatically grants permission for us to publish and use your name. Please state if you wish to keep your name or e-mail confidential. CAUTION, MOST OF THESE ARE INITIAL REPORTS AND REQUIRE FURTHER INVESTIGATION. Donations are encouraged. Regards, George A. Filer www.GeorgeFiler.com/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 7 Re: Mogul 4 That Never Was - Morris From: Neil Morris <neil@adm1.ph.man.ac.uk> Date: Wed, 06 Aug 2003 17:06:59 +0100 Fwd Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2003 08:19:14 -0400 Subject: Re: Mogul 4 That Never Was - Morris >From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais@wanadoo.fr> >To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >Date: Sat, 2 Aug 2003 10:49:53 +0200 >Subject: Re: Mogul 4 That Never Was >To Neil, Stan and List, >I will try to answer to your two messages at the same time. Yes, >we can put in doubt many things, but we may also consider some >problematic data, true or not, and try to explain them. >- You put in doubt that the NYU team brought a left over stock >of pre production of radar targets, with flowered tape, but we >may also suppose that Moore did not invent the story and that it >is true. It could be true, _but_ it relies on Moore's memory alone, there seems to be no evidence other than this to support his claim. It smacks of a convenient (and unprovable either way) memory used to bind in the NYU's operations with the Roswell debris. >- You put in doubt that the balloon cluster launched by NYU and >Crary in the morning of June 4 would carry radar targets, but >all the "best" sources (in the eyes of the skeptics: NYU >Reports, Roswell Report, Moore, Pflock...) say that NYU launched >everyday balloons clusters with radar targets. >- You put in doubt that they would have used their stock of >flowered tape targets, but I don't see any reason why not. >- You put in doubt that Brazel found balloon and target debris >on June 14, but why did he give that date? Why would he (or >they) invent it? It does not make sense to invent it because it >would not help the balloon cover up of the strange debris found >at the beginning of July. On the contrary, it confirms that the >balloon discovery had nothing to do with the debris field found >at the beginning of July. Is it coincidental the date June 14th is that of the Bakersfield sighting? I believe this case did get coverage in the press of the time but it's less well known today than the Arnold sighting which happened 10 days later. "Whilst flying from Chicago to Los Angeles over Bakersfield, California on the afternoon of 14th June 1947, pilot Richard Rankin reported seeing ten flying discs, each averaging about 35' in diameter. ..." >- You put in doubt that Brazel found flowered tape. You find >"highly likely" that the military told him. May be so, But what >difference does that make for our little problem: flowered tape >was found, and where did it come from? You suppose it may have >come from the Mogul 11A, launched on July 7. According to the >NYU Report, it landed 19 miles west of Roswell, but it did not >carry any radar target ! It carried, like all Mogul flights >since Mogul 5, a radiosonde for sending data. According to the research progress reports the NYU team abandoned radar as a reliable tracking method for the launches as they found the range limited and the reliability variable. The flight drawings don't seem to show when and if radar targets were fitted to the trains but even after radar tracking seemed to have been abandoned, evidence in the form of photographs and film show ML307's still being fitted to later research flights. An example from the 1948 flight series here: http://www.gl.iit.edu/wadc/history/roswell/report/p292.html Like other's, the flight drawings for 11a don't show targets, but they _were_ _still_ being fitted to some of the later research flights, the pictures prove this point. >We agree that Mogul 4 was cancelled. Crary just wrote that. You >agree that NYU launched instead a balloon cluster, but you put >in doubt that it would carry radar targets. However, all sources >describe them with radar targets. The only NYU balloon lanchings >which may have carried flowered taped targets were small balloon >clusters, such as described by all sources, above mentioned. See >for instance the drawing of such a balloon cluster in the >Roswell Report, just after Moore's testimony. It has three >balloons and three targets. So, the whole flowered tape story >has to come from the launchings of small balloon clusters with >radar targets. Not from any Mogul flight. I don't think things were as simple as you make out. Flight 4 was a "service flight" and the NYU Final Report published in 1951 explains the differences between "research" flights like Flight 5 which was recorded in the logs and "service" flights like Flight 4 which weren't. Research flights were those which flew the experimental constant altitude control systems the NYU were developing under their part of the MOGUL project, but part of their contract seems to have included providing their balloon flight "services" to Crary's part of the project, he was developing the sound burst detection and analysis part of the project but he didn't need the extended level flight control capabilities at that time that the NYU were aiming for. Though these service flights were simpler as they didn't carry all NYU's gear and telemetry equipment the illustrated example in the final report is still 200-300 ft tall, the illustration shows the service flight configuration as used with the later single 20 foot polyethylene balloons, but I suggest if you replace this with a cluster of maybe 12 neoprene meteo balloons as per flight-7, 2nd July 1947 then maybe we have an idea of what flight 4 may have looked like. From reading Crary's journal for that period it seems he never mentions anything about radar tracking, but goes on at length about both the sonabuoy and radiosonde receivers and receiver outstations one of which he located out at Roswell. Radar tracking and therefore the radar targets needed did not seem to concern Crary, and there's nothing to suggest they were even fitted for his "service" flights. >It seems obvious to me and I still hope that you will agree. >In short, the balloon story is even more preposterous with a >small balloon cluster than it was with a "huge" balloon train. Point of detail, as I've explained above the flight 4 train was in all possibility not that small. >Now, you throw in the Kellahin testimony, but it is the most >highly dubious of all testimonies. It is contradicted by all >other witnesses, including his photographer Robin Adair. We _assume_ Adair was telling the truth, but why do we assume this. He I think, tells us he flew over the debris field, but this was 60+ miles out the other side of Roswell from the direction he alleges he flew in from, Santa Fe. And how would he or his pilot know where to pick out the right spot?, there's a lot of desert out there. Yet we know Kellahin was in Albuquerque, he took down the report of the Roswell find for AP and we also know he was at Mack's interview at the RDR that same evening because he's mentioned in the interview. We also know Flight 11a came down close by Highway 70 to the west of Roswell and was recovered on the 8th July. And Kellahin would likely have been on that road late that afternoon. It all seems a little more than just invention on Kellahin's part. The fine detail may be in question (and is) but the core story would fit the known facts. One fly in the ointment with this theory though is that according to the logs, 11a comprised of as Crary puts it, "plastics", some of the new polyethylene balloons, and the drawings for flight 11a show only 2 "rubber" type meteo balloons in this train. 11b _was_ all rubber but it came down elsewhere, and 11c carried it's load of TNT to 35,000 ft and detonated at around 6.55am on the 7th, so it doesn't come into the equation. >It >seems well established that Whitmore Sr went to the Foster ranch >on Monday, came back to Roswell with Brazel, recorded an >interview of him (which he was forbidden to broadcast), brought >him to the base on Tuesday morning, where Brazel told them his >whole story. Witness testimony infers it probably went more like.. Yes it's probable Mack spent the night at Whitmore's house, Whitmore Jnr recall's meeting him at breakfast but say's he left shortly afterwards. Lydia Sleppy mentions reporter John McBoyle had a coffee with Mack in a coffee shop in Roswell later that morning. Around 1pm Lewis Rickett's recalled he and Cavitt set out to find Mack to "assist" them further. If Kellahin is correct it looks like they did find Mack soon after. >Kellahin was most probably the victim of a staged >showing of debris along the road, in the area of the Foster >ranch. This has nothing to do with the flowered tape problem. It >is one of the episodes of the balloon cover-up put in place >during the day. Why _stage_ a balloon crash site when you have a real one provided?. >BTW, in his book "Case MJ-12" (page 51), Kevin Randle reveals >that he interviewed in 1976 a former sergeant who told him that >he had participated in a ufo cover-up with balloons and radar >reflectors, that he had "trucked into town. And that was in >Roswell. But he did not mention flowered tape, and so it does >not help solve the problem. Anyway, we have enough information >to consider the problem solved. A number of "demonstrations" were put on, Major Pritchard, who crops up a number of times in Crary's journal put on a demonstration for the press at Alamagordo and photographs of a demonstration _with_ _ML307's_ on the 9th July at FWAAF made it into the Fort Worth Star Telegram of the 10th July. FWAAF seems to have had a few ML307's in their stores that Ramey could have compared the debris with, yet they had to order Irving Newton away from his post to identify the debris?....strange that. Best Regards Neil
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 7 Query As To CIA Acquistion Of Turkish UFO Cases From: Larry W. Bryant <overtci@cavtel.net> Date: Wed, 06 Aug 2003 13:30:42 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2003 08:24:02 -0400 Subject: Query As To CIA Acquistion Of Turkish UFO Cases TO: Defense Attache Embassy of the Republic of Turkey 2525 Massachusetts Avenue, N.W. Washington, DC 20008 FROM: Larry W. Bryant 3518 Martha Custis Drive Alexandria, VA 22302 DATE: August 6, 2003 Referring to the attached correspondence between me and the freedom-of-information manager at the U. S. Central Intelligence Agency (particularly the CIA letter to me of July 24, 2003 -- in which the manager asserts that the sought-for UFO-related information would have to be "officially acknowledged" before its security classification could be reviewed/canceled for the records' eventual public release), I now ask that your office provide me a formal, written statement that officially acknowledges the CIA acquisition and possession of the cited Turkish Intelligence Agency (MIT) UFO-encounter cases. Armed with that statement, I would have an improved chance of prevailing in my expected legal challenge to the CIA denial of my FOIA request of June 27, 2003. Your compliance with this request not only will help defuse the worldwide official cover-up of the UFO experience; it also would highlight the irony exuding from a foreign government's UFO-data openness in contrast to the U. S. government's haughty, unrealistic, and unlawful sequestration of that data. Thank you for whatever other coordination and assistance you can provide me in resolving this issue -- and in advancing the international call for greater UFO freedom-of-information and accountability. By snail-mail, I'm sending to you a signed copy of this e- formatted letter. Larry W. Bryant Director, Washington, D.C., Office of Citizens Against UFO Secrecy Copies furnished to: Mark S. Zaid, Esq. (Washington, D.C.) Chairman, U. S. Senate Select Committee on Intelligence Peter Robbins, Editor-in-Chief of the Internet website of http://www.ufocity.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 7 Argentine Meteorite Impact Site May Have Been Found From: Scott Corrales <lornis1@earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2003 14:41:40 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2003 08:26:58 -0400 Subject: Argentine Meteorite Impact Site May Have Been Found SOURCE: Diario "Los Andes" (Mendoza) DATE: August 6,. 2003 METEORITE IMPACT SITE MAY HAVE BEEN FOUND Teresita Sancho--Corresponsalia Sur The area where the meteor which frightened residents in southern Mendoza last Friday morning has been logged. The place was determined through the account of a rancher on the banks of the Diamante River, who described in detail the direction of the possible impact site of at least one of the sizeable chunks of rock. "A brightness with a reddish blue light almost left us blind. It was followed by a very loud report and the earth shook. In the early morning we saw lots of smoke which lingered until lunchtime," said the famer, a privileged witness to the phenomenon. "It wasn't far from the house. Some leagues, maybe two days' on horseback," he added, when asked about the distance. This description agrees with the one given by some fishermen at the Agua del Toro dam. The explanation--particularly the reference regarding the smoke, which no one had mentioned as of yet--gave Hector Correas, the head of Civil Defense, the possibility to determine the impact site: "It would be in the southern part of Cerro El Diamante, facing the Picasa Mine, some 100 km south in a straight line from the city of San Rafael," explained the official, noting that this is a rough, mountainous area where several private ranches can be found. Meanwhile, astronomer Jaime Garcia of the Instituto Copernico spend all day combing the area on a 4x4 alongside scientists from the Pierre Aucer cosmic ray laboratory. The purpose of the trip is to determine the exact impact site by confecting a map based on eyewitness accounts, bearing in mind "the time difference between the flash of light and the explosion." They covered ranches in La Jaula and Las Aucas, upstream of El Diamante, leaving the Agua del Toro dam behind and going into "the most extreme areas that can be reached with a four-wheel drive vehicle." Parallel to this, there is a certain amount of mystery to the event, and there has been an increase in various stories and remarks about "something strange" having occurred that night, even though scholars of the cosmos do not believe that anything supernatural occurred. Daniel Matoz, 18, a member of the Asociacion de Astronomia del Sur is convinced of this. That morning he was watching the sky, as he usually does on clear nights. For two hours, his attention had been consumed by the planet Mars and he suddenly found a beam of light "that flew very low, followed by noise and a tremor." He calculates that 20 seconds elapsed between the sheen, which he describes as an "expansion wave", and a noise similar to "a person screaming inside a pipe." The fact is that the mystery that envelopes this phenomenon has a reason: astronomers and Civil Defense do not wish to furnish further details to protect the rock fragments from the greedy hands of collectors of these items, which are greatly sought after all over the world. ============================================== Translation (C) 2003 Scott Corrales Institute of Hispanic Ufology (IHU) Special thanks to Gloria Coluchi.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 7 Secrecy News -- 08/06/03 From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood@fas.org> Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2003 14:51:19 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2003 08:28:58 -0400 Subject: Secrecy News -- 08/06/03 SECRECY NEWS from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy Volume 2003, Issue No. 67 August 6, 2003 ** DOMESTIC INTELLIGENCE IN THE UK AND HERE ** REVISITING THE ASSASSINATION BAN ** NEW LEGISLATION ** AMB. WILSON AND THE INTEL IDENTITIES PROTECTION ACT DOMESTIC INTELLIGENCE IN THE UK AND HERE Should the United States establish a new domestic intelligence agency along the lines of Britain's Security Service (MI5) to take over the intelligence duties currently assigned to the Federal Bureau of Investigation? Such a proposal has been advanced by Sen. John Edwards (D-NC), among others, who has argued that "the law enforcement responsibilities of the Bureau are inconsistent with, and will continue to undermine, its ability to be an effective intelligence agency." Sen. Edwards introduced legislation last February to create a new Homeland Intelligence Agency which, he said, would be entirely compatible "with appropriate respect for the privacy and civil liberties of United States persons." See his "Foreign Intelligence Collection Improvement Act" (S.410) here: http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/2003_cr/s410.html The proposal was critically examined in a Congressional Research Service report entitled "Domestic Intelligence in the United Kingdom: Applicability of the MI-5 Model to the United States" by Todd Masse, May 19, 2003. See: http://www.fas.org/irp/crs/RL31920.pdf See also "Intelligence Critics Urge U.S. to Look to British Spy Agency" by Don Van Natta, Jr., New York Times, July 26, 2003. REVISITING THE ASSASSINATION BAN U.S. policy as set forth in President Reagan's 1982 Executive Order 12333 formally prohibits assassination. But exactly what does that mean? The term is not defined. It is clear that targeted killing of an enemy combatant in wartime is not assassination, and it is clear that targeted killing of a political leader in peacetime is. But what about the targeted killing of a political leader (e.g. Saddam Hussein) in wartime? And given the Administration claim that the President has unchecked authority to designate as an "enemy combatant" even an American citizen found in the United States (e.g. Jose Padilla), could he also order his summary execution as an act of war? An introduction to such thorny issues is provided in "Assassination Ban and E.O. 12333: A Brief Summary" by Elizabeth B. Bazan, Congressional Research Service, January 4, 2002, newly available here: http://www.fas.org/irp/crs/RS21037.pdf NEW LEGISLATION "The Library, Bookseller, and Personal Records Privacy Act" (S. 1507) was introduced by Senator Russ Feingold (D-WI) and several co-sponsors. It would amend the USA Patriot Act to impose new limits on government access to library, bookseller, and other personal records in foreign intelligence and counterintelligence investigations. See: http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/2003_cr/s1507.html "The Protecting the Rights of Individuals Act" (S. 1552) was introduced by Sen. Lisa Murkowski (D-AK) and Sen. Ron Wyden (D- OR). It would amend the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act so as"to strengthen protections of civil liberties in the exercise of the foreign intelligence surveillance authorities under Federal law." See: http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/2003_cr/s1552.html Senators Lott, Byrd, Grassley and Wyden introduced a bipartisan resolution to eliminate anonymous "holds," a procedural maneuver used to block legislation or nominations. Holds would still be permitted, but they could no longer be applied anonymously. See: http://www.fas.org/sgp/congress/2003/sres216.html AMB. WILSON AND THE INTEL IDENTITIES PROTECTION ACT Former Ambassador Joseph Wilson said this week that the Bush Administration was seeking to discourage those who, like him, were critical of the U.S. war against Iraq. In particular, he said that those Administration officials who reportedly named his wife as a CIA officer had done so in order to suppress dissenting views. "The reason for it was not to smear me or to even smear my wife," Wilson said. "The reason was to intimidate others from coming forward." See "U.S. Accused of Intimidation in Iraq Uranium Flap" by Toby Zakaria, Reuters, August 4: http://reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=topNews&storyID=3218314 But regardless of the motivation, leaking the name of an intelligence officer whose employment status is classified would be a violation of the law, the Intelligence Identities Protection Act of 1982, which prohibits unauthorized disclosure of the names of clandestine intelligence personnel. The Administration's response to the leak will thus be a test of its commitment to the law and to the security of classified information. Secrecy News (7/28/03) garbled the description of the Intelligence Identities Protection Act. The Act makes it a crime for an official who has authorized access to the names of intelligence officers or agents to disclose that information to an unauthorized person even on a one-time basis, as may have occurred in the case of Amb. Wilson's wife. It is also a crime for regular, uncleared individuals to disclose agent identities, but only when they do so as part of a "pattern of activities." See the text of the Intelligence Identities Protection Act here: http://www.fas.org/irp/offdocs/laws/iipa.html _______________________________________________ Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the Federation of American Scientists. To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to secrecy_news-request@lists.fas.org with "subscribe" in the body of the message. OR email your request to saftergood@fas.org Secrecy News is archived at: http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html _______________________ Steven Aftergood Project on Government Secrecy Federation of American Scientists web: www.fas.org/sgp/index.html email: saftergood@fas.org voice: (202) 454-4691
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 7 Two New Items At Magonia - 08-06-03 From: John Rimmer <jrimmer@magonia.demon.co.uk> Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2003 21:37:07 +0100 Fwd Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2003 08:31:13 -0400 Subject: Two New Items At Magonia - 08-06-03 Two new items on the Magonia website: An Alien Vice David Sivier asks if there is any similarity between motifs in pornography and abduction accounts: http://www.magonia.demon.co.uk/arc/00/vice01.htm And The Pelican is back, as irritating as ever: http://www.magonia.demon.co.uk/arc/00/pelican12.htm John Rimmer Magonia Magazine www.magonia.demon.co.uk/arc/00/newmag.htm
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 7 Re: Early 19th Century Virginia Alien? - Tonnies From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2003 18:45:17 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2003 08:32:47 -0400 Subject: Re: Early 19th Century Virginia Alien? - Tonnies >From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@earthlink.net> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2003 13:28:46 -0700 >Subject: Re: Early 19th Century Virginia Alien? <snip> >However, what I am most struck by is the round, glowing area >below the head in this rendition of the Flatwood's monster. The >corresponding area in the other image is also depicted as round, >but with a 6-pointed "Star-of-David" inside... It is also >interesting to note that Flatwoods, West Virginia, is only about >100 miles north of Washington County, Virginia..." http://www.roswellproof.com/19th_century_virginia_alien.html Hi, I find this discussion etremely interesting, but the "entity" depicted in the artwork looks less humanoid to me and more like a stylized plant of some kind (perhaps a stalk of corn). ===== >Mac Tonnies (macbot@yahoo.com) Explore MTVI @ http://www.mactonnies.com Posthuman Blues: http://posthumanblues.blogspot.com (daily blog)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 7 Re: Golden Section In Face on Mars - Mruzek From: Jiri Mruzek <jirimruzek@shaw.ca> Date: Wed, 06 Aug 2003 18:48:32 -0700 Fwd Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2003 08:35:33 -0400 Subject: Re: Golden Section In Face on Mars - Mruzek >From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 11:36:45 -0700 (PDT) >Subject: Re: Golden Section In Face on Mars >>From: Jiri Mruzek <jirimruzek@shaw.ca> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >>Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 05:52:41 -0700 >.Subject: Golden Section In Face on Mars >>Golden section in the famous Face on Mars, and "my >>face on Mars" >>Sorry, Listeros, I am too tired to do anything else other than >>post a link to my just finished article on the web. I hope, you >>find it interesting. >>Jiri Mruzek >>http://www.geocities.com/jirimruzek/mafa.htm >One big problem: the image you used for your analysis is T.J. >Parker's "Picasso" rendering, which is heavily warped. I don't >know if Parker produced this image to placate his superiors at >JPL or if it was an innocent mistake. In any case, a properly >orthorectified version exists thanks to Mark Carlotto. You can >find it here along with various other versions: >http://www.mactonnies.com/facephotos.html Mac, We have more than one big problem, what we have here is a paradox! I don't know if you are familiar with any of my work, but I am quite well versed in this type of research. If I find a system of golden rectangles in the Face on Mars, you may be reasonably certain that I did a solid job. You may be reasonably certain that the NASA version of the face comes replete with this system. Carlotto's orthorectified version lacks it, although there is geometrical order, which Carlotto strives to show. It is an order, which he is trying to fit over the image of the Face, there is nothing wrong with that, if you have the right order. Carlotto is slightly off in his recognition of the pattern. For the correct, and of course, best fitting pattern, check my web page again, you will not recognize it. Rather than nested 3 : 4 rectangles, in this version there is a golden rectangle, and a square. In contrast, the NASA version's system is a brilliant example of encoding easily identifiable geometrical ideas into architecture, or art. Such ideas teach something new, and entertain at the same time. Carlotto's symmetry of two nested rectangles teaches very little, as it is just too basic. So, the paradox, and the big problem is that NASA's alleged fake is far superior to the alleged original. Why would NASA do this to itself? Now, anyne, who sees the NASA version of the Face, as likely the most correct, will be able to check out the golden rectangle system in it, which fits to a tee (1 tee = 4 miles:). This system is clearly intelligent, and therefore looks as artificial as your TV set. This looks like the correct system to me. I cannot tell you why Carlotto would produce a seriously distorted orthorectification, but until convinced beyond all doubt , I'll believe that is what has happened. Maybe NASA played a nice trick on youse guys? >I don't know if Parker produced this image to placate his >superiors at JPL or if it was an innocent mistake. In any case, >a properly orthorectified version exists thanks to Mark >Carlotto. You can find it here along with various other >versions: >http://www.mactonnies.com/facephotos.html Thank you very much for the work you put into your pages, they are excellent! You are my main point of reference. BTW, that Golden Section analysis of the Face you have in your pages is done on the NASA version, too. Check out some work I have done previously with bounding rectangles at Nasca, Peru. Anyone, who found the bounding rectangles of the Face understandable, should be able to appreciate this one as well: http://www.geocities.com/jirimruzek/namon6.htm >"NASA's second version of the Face is just as misleading as the "catbox" >(above). In an attempt to orthorectify the Face, image processor T.J. >Parker misleadingly warped the Face's centerline to the far right, as >illustrated by the improperly placed "nostrils" (seen correctly in Mark >Kelly's rectification, below). The "Picasso Face" has become NASA's >"final word" on the subject despite the fact that its asymmetry has been >proven to be the result of improper orthorectification, and appears in >many publications seeking to dismiss the Face as a potential artifact." Meanwhile, it is vibrating with the harmonies of the Golden Section, the Divine Proportion, the Master's Cut, the Section, the Phi -ratio, the Golden Mean, and the Sweet Sixteen. What a fiasco.. Regards, Jiri Mruzek
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 7 Re: Two New Items At Magonia - 08-06-03 - Connors From: Wendy Connors <FadedDiscs@comcast.net> Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2003 07:36:32 -0600 Fwd Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2003 12:01:04 -0400 Subject: Re: Two New Items At Magonia - 08-06-03 - Connors >From: John Rimmer <jrimmer@magonia.demon.co.uk> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2003 21:37:07 +0100 >Subject: Two New Items At Magonia - 08-06-03 <snip> Umm, John? Interesting prattle of your own belief system, but what documentation do you have for your assessment of American Ufology? I didn't see any listed in your diatribe. Are you saying that it's appropriate for Pelicanists to poop personal opinion and call it appropriate research, but woe betide the researcher who offers speculation based upon applied research? Sounds much like the old double standard crappola from the CSICOP cult. Now how can we take the Grand Puba Pelican's word if you won't document and back up your speculations? Tsk, tsk, tsk.... Wendy Connors (At a small local library sending this message because I'm on vacation and haven't gotten to my destination as yet)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 7 Re: 'Decoded' Message From Alien Crop Glyph - From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22@fastmail.fm> Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2003 07:59:10 -0800 Fwd Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2003 13:16:24 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Decoded' Message From Alien Crop Glyph - >From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com> >To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2003 13:40:49 -0700 >Subject: Re: 'Decoded' Message From Alien Crop Glyph >>From: Eleanor White <eleanor@raven1.net> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >>Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2003 09:27:38 -0400 >>Subject: 'Decoded' Message From Alien Crop Glyph >>Remember that alien face crop glyph with a 'digital disc' >>glyph beside it? That is referred to as the Crabwood >>glyph. For those who would like to see the original image, >>I have it saved on my site at this direct link: >>http://www.raven1.net/crabwood.jpg >>Last night's (August 3-4, 2003) guest on Coast to Coast AM >>was Marshall Masters, who has worked as an engineer and >>scientist, and more recently has become a researcher and >>author on anomalies which point to advanced and covered >>up phenomena. His web site is: >>http://www.yowusa.com >>A page from that site now shows the result of an analysis by a >>Maurice Osborn who, starting from the center of the spiral >>stream of bits, applied the PC (commonly called ASCII) binary >>code set to the bit stream, and came up with this translation of >>the message: >>"Beware the bearers of FALSE gifts & their BROKEN >>PROMISES. Much PAIN but still time. BELIEVE. >>There is GOOD out there. We OPpose DECEPTION. >>COnduit CLOSING," >>Those familiar with the ASCII code set know that there are >>separate codes for upper case letters and lower case letters, >>and the capitalization above appears to be intended by the non- >>human writers. Mr. Masters stated that the glyph was analyzed on >>site and found to have the radiused stalk bends and careful >>interweaving of laid-over stalks which indicate a glyph of non- >>human origin. >>The direct link to that descriptive page is: >>http://www.yowusa.com/Archive/May2003/crabwood4/crabwood4.htm >>In case that page becomes unavailable I also have saved that >>page, text without images, to my site directly: >>http://www.raven1.net/crabwood4.htm >I read everything you posted and am amazed that there hasn't >been more discussion of the Crabwood glyph. Has it been written >off as a hoax? If not, why aren't we discussing the message in >detail? And if it is a hoax, how was it accomplished? Are all >the circles in Italy hoaxes also? Why not think about >communicating back. Not with flash lights, but a huge circle >(glyph) of our own design, using the symbols and code found in >previous circle designs. If they notice, maybe they'll respond >and we can get an objective dialogue going. > >Or maybe the dialogue has already begun and all the hoaxed >circles are seen by the original circle makers as an attempt to >communicate. Now wouldn't that be a hoot? > >My suggestion for our first message: > >We OPpose DECEPTION... Too! Ed, We had Maurice Osborn give a presentation to our MUFON Ventura group as he takes a slightly different approach and interprets glyphs in terms of technology. He accepts the Crabwood formation as genuine and expects another formation to follow this month. He also suggested composing an answer using the same ASCII code (it saves space) and volunteered to compose a reply. There are those, of course, who think it is a hoax, and offer reasons for this, but not evidence. -Bill Hamilton
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 7 Re: 'Decoded' Message From Alien Crop Glyph - White From: Eleanor White <eleanor@raven1.net> Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2003 12:05:12 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2003 13:18:15 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Decoded' Message From Alien Crop Glyph - White >From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com> >To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2003 13:40:49 -0700 >Subject: Re: 'Decoded' Message From Alien Crop Glyph <snip> >Why not think about communicating back. Not with flash lights, >but a huge circle (glyph) of our own design, using the symbols >and code found in previous circle designs. If they notice, maybe >they'll respond and we can get an objective dialogue going. They seem to understand written English, so it is a little puzzling why they chose to write in ASCII rather than simple Roman lettering. But what it does mean is that _we_ could respond in ASCII as well. >Or maybe the dialogue has already begun and all the hoaxed >circles are seen by the original circle makers as an attempt to >communicate. Now wouldn't that be a hoot? I heard on one of the many overnight shows I listen to while working that in fact, one 'hoaxer' - actually he was just trying to find out if he could hoax; there was no intent to hoax - said while he worked, he attracted the attention of the little 'lights' reported present when glyphs are witnessed while being laid down. Apparently there has been a decoding of the glyph response to the Arecibo message a year earlier - I don't have a link for that one. >My suggestion for our first message: >We OPpose DECEPTION... Too! Good one. I'd also ask them at some point why they don't use English and the Roman alphabet instead of ASCII. Probably best to do any replies in the busiest region in England. Eleanor White
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 7 Re: Two New Items At Magonia - 08-06-03 - Clark From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net> Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2003 11:35:38 -0500 Fwd Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2003 13:20:16 -0400 Subject: Re: Two New Items At Magonia - 08-06-03 - Clark >From: Wendy Connors <FadedDiscs@comcast.net> >To: UFO Updates" <ufoudates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2003 07:36:32 -0600 >Subject: Re: Two New Items At Magonia - 08-06-03 >>From: John Rimmer <jrimmer@magonia.demon.co.uk> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >>Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2003 21:37:07 +0100 >>Subject: Two New Items At Magonia - 08-06-03 Hi, Wendy, >Umm, John? Interesting prattle of your own belief system, but >what documentation do you have for your assessment of American >Ufology? I didn't see any listed in your diatribe. Are you >saying that it's appropriate for Pelicanists to poop personal >opinion and call it appropriate research, but woe betide the >researcher who offers speculation based upon applied research? >Sounds much like the old double standard crappola from the >CSICOP cult. Now how can we take the Grand Puba Pelican's word >if you won't document and back up your speculations? John Rimmer is not The Pelican, whose real identity is readily identifiable from the dreary prose style and weird fetishistic obsessions, one of which is the undersigned. He's incapable of writing anything on despised ufology without bringing up my name. Actually, in point of fact, no issue of Magonia itself would be an issue of Magonia without the absolutely predictable mention of the Great Satan hisself, aka Jerome Clark. I find the whole thing vastly amusing. No wonder British ufology is in so much trouble - the (now late) Gordon Creighton on one side, big, flapping, squawking birds on the other, with only a few sensible, lucid voices in the middle. Have a great vacation. You deserve it a whole lot more than any flock of Pelicanists I can think of. And when you get back, there's a package waiting for you. Cheers, Jerry Clark
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 7 Re: Early 19th Century Virginia Alien? - Rudiak From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2003 09:38:11 -0700 Fwd Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2003 13:22:27 -0400 Subject: Re: Early 19th Century Virginia Alien? - Rudiak >From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2003 18:45:17 -0700 (PDT) >Subject: Re: Early 19th Century Virginia Alien? >>From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@earthlink.net> >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2003 13:28:46 -0700 >>Subject: Re: Early 19th Century Virginia Alien? <snip> >>However, what I am most struck by is the round, glowing area >>below the head in this rendition of the Flatwood's monster. The >>corresponding area in the other image is also depicted as round, >>but with a 6-pointed "Star-of-David" inside... It is also >>interesting to note that Flatwoods, West Virginia, is only about >>100 miles north of Washington County, Virginia..." >http://www.roswellproof.com/19th_century_virginia_alien.html >I find this discussion etremely interesting, but the "entity" >depicted in the artwork looks less humanoid to me and more like >a stylized plant of some kind (perhaps a stalk of corn). I already mentioned in my short discussion on my web page that the "gown" looked a lot like stylized corn plants in southwest Indian artwork. Someone else e-mailed me and said why couldn't the head just be a pistil and stamen of a flower? Maybe that's all there is. The problem is the folk story that goes along with the figure, that it depicts an alien visitation. And I think Kenny Young is correct in pointing out that there are some similarities to the descriptions of the nearby 1952 Flatwoods Monster. I'm still trying to find out more from the author any further details of the story, but so far he is unresponsive to my e- mails. David Rudiak
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 7 Re: 'Decoded' Message From Alien Crop Glyph - From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2003 11:40:21 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2003 21:53:09 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Decoded' Message From Alien Crop Glyph - >From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22@fastmail.fm> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2003 07:59:10 -0800 >Subject: Re: 'Decoded' Message From Alien Crop Glyph <snip> >We had Maurice Osborn give a presentation to our MUFON Ventura >group as he takes a slightly different approach and interprets >glyphs in terms of technology. He accepts the Crabwood formation >as genuine and expects another formation to follow this month. He's not alone! Human-made or otherwise, I think we'll get another "message." >He also suggested composing an answer using the same ASCII code >(it saves space) This is the first time someone has explicitly given a reason for using ASCII instead of, say, New Times Roman. Maybe the ASCII format was a legitimate attempt to compress data rather than impress naive Earthlings. ===== >Mac Tonnies (macbot@yahoo.com) Explore MTVI @ http://www.mactonnies.com Posthuman Blues: http://posthumanblues.blogspot.com (daily blog)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 7 [FOI-L] Politics & Science Ideology Over Science From: Larry W. Bryant <overtci@cavtel.net> Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2003 17:03:15 -0400 (EDT) Fwd Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2003 21:59:10 -0400 Subject: [FOI-L] Politics & Science Ideology Over Science From: "Patrice McDermott" <pmcdermott@ALAWASH.ORG> To: FOI-L@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU Date: Thu, August 7, 2003 1:02 pm Subject: [FOI-L] Politics and Science: Investigating the Bush Administration's Promotion of Ideology Over Science http://www.house.gov/reform/min/politicsandscience/index.htm Overview The American people depend upon federal agencies to develop science-based policies that protect the nation's health and welfare. Recently, however, leading scientific journals have begun to question whether scientific integrity at federal agencies has been sacrificed to further a political and ideological agenda. At the request of Rep. Henry A. Waxman, the minority staff of the Government Reform Committee assessed the treatment of science and scientists by the Bush Administration. The report Politics and Science in the Bush Administration: http://www.house.gov/reform/min/politicsandscience/pdfs/pdf_politics_and_science _rep.pdf finds numerous instances where the Administration has manipulated the scientific process and distorted or supressed scientific findings. Beneficiaries include important supporters of the President, including social conservatives and powerful industry groups. This website is an ongoing record of interference with science by the Bush Administration. [...] Aug. 7, 2003 Know More? the minority staff of the House Government Reform Committee is continuing to investigate the state of scientific integrity in the Bush Administration. All submissions will be kept strictly confidential.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 7 NASA's Naked Emperors Have Spoken From: Larry W. Bryant <overtci@cavtel.net> Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2003 18:34:22 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2003 22:00:38 -0400 Subject: NASA's Naked Emperors Have Spoken TO: Larry W. Bryant FROM: Lt. Col. Tyrone Woodyard, USAF Public Affairs Officer Columbia Accident Investigation Board 2900 South Quincy Street - Suite 800 Arlington, VA 22206 DATE: July 21, 2003 By e-mail dated 17 July 2003, the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) Office at NASA's Headquarters forwarded your e-mail (Subject: FOIA Request to NASA Re the Space Shuttle Columbia Disaster) to the Columbia Accident Investigation Board with a request that the Board respond directly to you. You have requested the following information: 1. A copy of all insider-interview transcripts collected by and for the specially commissioned board to investigate the Space Shuttle Columbia disaster. 2. A copy of all NASA-generated and NASA-received records pertaining to the NASA decision to withhold those transcripts from public view. With regard to item 1, transcripts of interviews conducted by or on behalf of the Board are being withheld from disclosure pursuant to 5 U.S.C. Sec. 552 (b)(5). The (b)(5) exemption authorizes an agency to withhold from disclosure" inter-agency or intra-agency memorandums or letters which would not be available by law to a party other than an agency in litigation with the agency." The Supreme Court in United States v. Weber Aircraft, 465 U.S. at 799, held that exemption (b)(5) incorporates the special privilege protecting witness statements generated during aircraft accident investigations when those statements are given in reliance on a promise of confidentiality. All interviews by or on behalf of the Board in the investigation of the Columbia aircraft accident have been conducted on the basis of such a promise. With regard to item 2, there are no Board documents responsive to your request. Since some information is being withheld and you are receiving a "no responsive records" response, you have a right to appeal to the Chairman, Columbia Accident Investigation Board if you are dissatisfied with this response. Your appeal must: (1) be addressed to the Chairman, Columbia Accident Investigation Board, 2900 South Quincy Street, Suite 800, Arlington, VA 22206; (2) be clearly identified on the envelope and in the letter as an "Appeal"; (3) include a copy of the request for the Board record and a copy of this initial determination; (4) to the extent possible, state the reasons you believe the initial determination should be reversed; and (5) be sent to the Chairman within 30 calendar days of the receipt of this initial determination.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 7 Northeast of Kingston, Ontario From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO <hbccufo@telus.net> Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2003 15:41:23 -0700 Fwd Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2003 22:10:33 -0400 Subject: Northeast of Kingston, Ontario Northeast of Kingston, Ontario Date: July 24, 2003 Time: 11:10 p.m. Toll Free Hotline. A witness called today from Ontario to make a report of a sighting he and his wife had observed. They had just got back from their son's ball game. The son got a ride home with his friends. When the couple arrived home and noticed none of the telephones were working in the house. The fellow wanted to contact the phone company, but of course couldn't. He wondered if the phone in the barn might be working so he headed outside and was on his way to the barn, looked up through pine trees and across the highway and saw an extremely bright white light. He said it was so bright that he could not even look at it without placing his hand up in front of him. At the point where he first noticed it, the light was approx: a kilometer away coming from the west and his neighbors farm. The witness toldo me that after he first spotted it what popped into his head was "camera". Although due to being fascinated with the object he soon forgot about the camera. He ran back up from the barn area and banged on his door to catch his wife's attention. When she asked what was going on, he said "you have to come out and see this". He explained that he is not a man who gets rattled easily, but what he had seen shook him a lot. When the object came up close to his property it was not traveling very fast at all and had four bright white lights at the front and one red light in the middle, or center of the craft. As bright as the lights were, they did not illuminate the surrounding area. He and his wife both thought it looked like a boomerang. And looked as if something was sticking out of the front of it. As the object left their property moving into the distance they lost sight of the bright lights, but the lights at the front of the craft were still lighting up the front end of it. (HBCC UFO Note: The witness said when he first saw it he thought it was landing lights on a large jet aircraft. He also wondered if it was going to crash due to it being at such a low altitude and no airport close by). The also heard a very low rumbling sound to from it, like a throbbing sound. As he pointed out, that if it was a normal aircraft and being as low as it was, the sound would have knocked his socks off due to it being very loud. But it wasn't like that at all. The object itself was dark or blackish in color. The fellow gave a "guess" at what the size may have been, using his home as reference of 74 feet long. He figured the distance between the first light to the second may have been roughly 70 feet in distance. So between the first light and the last the approx: distance would have been just over 200 feet. This would have been how wide the object was, or appeared to be. Hopefully the other witnesses across the lake will talk with me over what they saw, which was the same object. Thank you to the witness for the report. Brian Vike, Director HBCC UFO Research Canadian Toll Free UFO Hotline 1 866 262 1989 - Free call. Editor: Canadian Communicator - Paranormal Magazine email: hbccufo@telus.net Website: http://www3.telus.net/public/wilbur8/hbcc_ufo_research.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 8 CCCRN News: Formation #3 - Cranbrook, Ontario From: Paul Anderson <psa@cccrn.ca> Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2003 16:04:31 -0700 Fwd Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2003 07:02:56 -0400 Subject: CCCRN News: Formation #3 - Cranbrook, Ontario CCCRN NEWS E-News from the Canadian Crop Circle Research Network August 7, 2003 http://www.cccrn.ca _____________________________ Formation #3 - Cranbrook, Ontario Circle in wheat, approximately 16.5 metres (55 feet) diameter. Tight, flat swirled lay of crop. Further details pending. A couple initial ground photos have been added to the web site. http://www.cccrn.ca ____________________________ The Prairie Circular Want more? Subscribe to The Prairie Circular, the quarterly print newsletter of CCCRN and keep informed with the latest news, updates, articles, reviews and complete crop circle coverage from the Canadian prairies and across the country... only from CCCRN! Only $12.00 Canadian per year. Further info: http://www.cccrn.ca/theprairiecircular.html Current issue: Spring 2003 ____________________________ CCCRN News is the e-news service of the Canadian Crop Circle Research Network, providing e-mail updates with the latest news and reports on the crop circle phenomenon in Canada, as well as other information on CCCRN-related projects and events, sent free to your e-mail To subscribe or unsubscribe, send an e-mail with either Subscribe CCCRN News or Unsubscribe CCCRN News in the subject line to: cccrnnews@cccrn.ca The Canadian Crop Circle Research Network is a non-profit research organization which has been seriously investigating and documenting the crop circle phenomenon and other possibly related phenomena in Canada since 1995, creating a liason between researchers, farmers, the public, media and scientists C. Canadian Crop Circle Research Network, 2003
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 8 VA 'UFO Slain Dog' Sheriff Quits Race From: Kenny Young <ufo@fuse.net> Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2003 19:06:38 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2003 07:07:13 -0400 Subject: VA 'UFO Slain Dog' Sheriff Quits Race Source: The Henrico Citizen - Henrico County, Virginia http://www.henricocitizen.com/news/News_Item.2003-08-07.3819 Former sheriff quits race in Henrico Tom Lappas Henrico Citizen Editor Thursday August 7, 2003 Former Henrico County Sheriff A.D. 'Toby' Mathews has ended his bid to reclaim his former position, withdrawing from the race against current sheriff Michael L. Wade just two months after entering it. Mathews filed a letter of withdrawal Aug. 6 with Henrico County Registrar Janet Coon, who said she had forwarded the letter to Virginia's State Board of Elections. Mathews told the Citizen that recurring health problems, including two recent episodes during which he nearly passed out, had forced him to end his campaign. "I'm disappointed because I can't [continue]," Mathews said, "but the doctor told me that for at least 10 days I couldn't do anything." Mathews, who has suffered throat problems and bouts of coughing since late July, determined that such a break from the campaign trail could prove costly to his election efforts. His wife and family helped convince him to pull out of the race, he said. "If I had someone on my campaign like I had the last two times, it would have helped a lot," he said. "But I just felt like I couldn't do it myself." Mathews' withdrawal means that Wade, a Republican who beat Democrat Robert Underhill to win the office in 1999, will run unopposed in the Nov. 4 election. Last month, Mathews told the Citizen that he missed being sheriff and that many people, including some of his former deputies, had urged him to run again. Mathews served two terms as sheriff, from 1992 to 2000, but decided to run for Varina District supervisor in 1999 instead of seeking re-election as sheriff. He finished third in a three-way race won by incumbent Republican Jim Donati. This year, Mathews had filed to run for sheriff just before the June 10 filing deadline. He said he wanted to run as a Republican but decided to run as an independent after Henrico GOP officials told him that Wade would be their candidate. Mathews' campaign was off to a slow start financially during its first several weeks. His campaign finance report for the period May 29-June 30 showed a zero balance, with no money raised or spent. Wade reported a balance of $16,342.55 as of June 30. Mathews met with Wade Aug. 7 and offered to lend his support to the sheriff. "I told him if I can help him at any point to let me know," Mathews said. Mathews faced criticism during his final years as sheriff as a result of high employee turnover rates, allegations of mismanagement and criminal charges that were filed against some of his deputies. Weeks before the 1999 election, he made news when he described for a newspaper reporter his recollections of a UFO visit to his Varina farm. In an article, Mathews said he believed the UFO was responsible for the subsequent death of his dog. Wade had criticized Mathews' decision to run again, telling the Citizen last month that the Sheriff's Office had suffered during Mathews' tenure. "I'm not surprised, but I'm really disappointed," Wade said at the time of Mathews decision. "We've overcome a lot of the things that we had been in the past [during Mathews' tenure]." Mathews had maintained that he enjoyed strong relationships with many of his former staff members and other state and federal officials while sheriff. He told the Citizen that former South Carolina Senator Strom Thurmond ? who died earlier this summer at 100 ? was a friend who "worshipped me and said I was the greatest leader." Of U.S. President George W. Bush, Mathews said, "I think the world of him, and he thinks the world of me too."
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 8 Don't Miss The Perseid Meteor Shower From: Steven L. Wilson Sr <Ndunlks@aol.com> Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2003 19:11:47 EDT Fwd Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2003 07:10:54 -0400 Subject: Don't Miss The Perseid Meteor Shower August 7, 2003 August Skywatch Don't Miss the Perseids Shower Get ready for spectacular displays in the night sky this month. The Perseids Meteor Shower will peak just before dawn on Wed., Aug. 13 when hundreds of meteors streak across the sky. The moon becomes full Aug. 11 and its glow may make it difficult to see some of the faintest meteors, so find a viewing spot where the air is clear and there are no artificial lights. Although it's usually best to look away from the Moon to see the Perseids, you might want to glance moonward to catch a glimpse of Mars, which will [be at its closest point to us in 66,000 years.]
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 8 Lake Superior: 1953 - Anonymous Source From: Gord Heath <GHeath@udl.com> Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2003 16:48:29 -0700 Fwd Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2003 07:14:25 -0400 Subject: Lake Superior: 1953 - Anonymous Source To: <webmaster@subversiveelement.com> I am writing you in response to your article concerning the "Kinross Missing F-89" incident (Nov. 23, 1953), posted on your website: http://www.subversiveelement.com/UFO_BattleCreek.html I have done a fair bit of research on this incident, and I feel the information quoted from your anonomous source is incorrect. No where have I ever read or heard indication that two aircraft were sent on the alert. I think that if this bit of information were true, there is no reason why the Air Force would not include it in the official Accident Report. Noone I have ever talked to has ever mentioned the possibility that another plane was sent on the same alert and turned back due to mechanical problems. Note that two other F-89s were LATER sent from Kinross Air Force Base to search for the missing F-89. One was piloted by William Mingenbach and the other by Lt. Nordeck. The first of these craft was in the air about 7:15 PM EST, about 20 minutes after the USAF reported last radar sighting of the F-89 on the intercept. Battle Creek, Michigan is about 300 miles south of Sault Ste. Marie. I am somewhat doubtful that radar from that time had a 300 or 400 mile range required to observe this intercept from that location. I suggest that you should consider posting this material to UFO UpDates so other researchers will have an opportunity to comment on it. http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/ Gord Heath UFOBC
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 8 Morris K. Jessup & Hans Stefan Santesson From: Robert Goerman <robertgoerman@hotmail.com> Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2003 20:54:35 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2003 07:18:27 -0400 Subject: Morris K. Jessup & Hans Stefan Santesson Hello All - I am currently looking for a copy of an article by Hans Stefan Santesson (born 1914 - died 1975, Editor of Fantastic Universe from October 1956 - October 1957) that appeared in the April, 1975 issue of Pursuit Magazine. Entitled "More On The Jessup And Allende Case" Santesson tells why he believed Morris K. Jessup really committed suicide. He did this to counter wild speculation at the time! The article is posthumous and Santesson's own obituary appears above the article. Important Note: I have information that before he killed himself, Morris K. Jessup turned over his personal copy of the Varo edition of "The Case For The UFO" to Hans Stefan Santesson in case anything should happen. Morris K. Jessup had also annotated this personal copy of the Varo edition, ridiculing A's and B's comments. He felt that Allende was a mental case. This 'holy grail' must be found and made public! Any ideas how to find it and make it public? Yours in research, Robert A. Goerman http://hometown.aol.com/trackingterror/myhomepageindex.html http://www.briandunning.com/1000questions
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 8 Anders Liljegren? From: Keith Chester <projectbluebook@erols.com> Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2003 22:12:57 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2003 07:19:53 -0400 Subject: Anders Liljegren? Hello List, Does anyone have the e-mail address to Mr. Anders Liljegren? Thank you, Keith Chester
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 8 Roswell Artifacts Captives Of Bureaucracy? From: Larry W. Bryant <overtci@cavtel.net> Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2003 23:12:46 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2003 07:24:02 -0400 Subject: Roswell Artifacts Captives Of Bureaucracy? LWB Note: If you or I were to enter into a formal, official agreement with a federal agency to produce - within a government-specified deadline and as a condition for the granting of land-access permission - a written report on that access but somehow manage to miss the deadline by several months, wouldn't we expect to be called into account by the authorities who granted the permit? In the case of the University of New Mexico's archeology department, what gives here? Why the delay, how long will it last, who's responsible for it, and is the taxpayer's interest being sidestepped by it? Then, too: how about it, SciFi Channel moguls - are y'all getting YOUR contractual money's worth of responsiveness from your UNM/BLM cousins? If not, do your stockholders know that fact? ----- TO: Larry W. Bryant FROM: Linda S. C. Rundell State Director for New Mexico U. S. Bureau of Land Management P. O. Box 27115 Santa Fe, NM 87502-0115 DATE: July 21, 2003 Your Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) request dated June 26, 2003, was received via electronic mail on the same date. You requested a copy of the artifact catalog specified by the archeological excavation permit for the September 2002 dig at the Roswell/Corona "skip site." Unfortunately, the University of New Mexico's Office of Contract Archeology has not completed their report and submitted it to the Bureau of Land Management (BLM). When the BLM has the report, a copy will be sent to you along with the other documents (all related transmittal correspondence and BLM generated records) you requested. For those records which do not exist, under 43 CFR 2.14(c), the Bureau is not required to create or compile a record to respond to a FOIA request. The Act applies only to records in existence at the time the request is made. The person responsible for this response is the undersigned as the State Director, New Mexico State Office, BLM, Santa Fe, New Mexico. This decision was made in consultation with Arthur Arguedas, Office of the Field Solicitor, Santa Fe, New Mexico. Under 43 CFR 2.18 (2002), you may appeal this decision to: Freedom of Information Act Appeals Officer; U. S. Department of the Interior - MS-5312, MIB; 1849 C Street, N.W.; Washington, DC 20240. Your appeal must be received no later than 30 workdays after the date of this letter. The appeal should be marked, both on the envelope and the face of the appeal letter, with the legend "FREEDOM OF INFORMATION ACT APPEAL." A copy of your original request should accompany your appeal with this letter, along with any information you have which leads you to believe the records do in fact exist, including where they might be found, if the location is known to you. Although you are entitled to pursue the appeal rights process, we encourage you to contact this office beforehand to try to resolve this matter if you feel we have not provided you with a complete response. Questions pertaining to this response and to FOIA matters may be directed to Eileen G. Vigil, State FOIA Officer, at (505) 438- 7636.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 8 Re: 'Decoded' Message From Alien Crop Glyph - Hatch From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net> Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2003 23:50:01 -0700 Fwd Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2003 07:30:57 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Decoded' Message From Alien Crop Glyph - Hatch >From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com> >Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2003 11:40:21 -0700 (PDT) >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >Subject: Re: 'Decoded' Message From Alien Crop Glyph >>From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22@fastmail.fm> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >>Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2003 07:59:10 -0800 >>Subject: Re: 'Decoded' Message From Alien Crop Glyph ><snip> >>We had Maurice Osborn give a presentation to our MUFON Ventura >>group as he takes a slightly different approach and interprets >>glyphs in terms of technology. He accepts the Crabwood formation >>as genuine and expects another formation to follow this month. >He's not alone! Human-made or otherwise, I think we'll get >another "message." >>He also suggested composing an answer using the same ASCII code >>(it saves space) >This is the first time someone has explicitly given a reason for >using ASCII instead of, say, New Times Roman. Maybe the ASCII >format was a legitimate attempt to compress data rather than >impress naive Earthlings. >===== >>Mac Tonnies (macbot@yahoo.com) Hello Mac: Some nit-picky details here: ASCII is not a type-font, as in New Times Roman, or Los Angeles Times Screamer. ASCII is a means of encoding the letters of the alphabet, numerals (1,2,3..), punctuation ( , ; : ' etc.) and "stunts" like the carriage return, line feed, spaces, end-of- file etc. Each character or stunt has a NUMBER assigned, making it a 'code' as in ASCII code. For example, the upper case letter A is 65-decimal, which is 41 in Hexadecimal, which is 1000001 or some such in binary code. The numbers 0-127 can thus be encoded in 7 bits of info. Add an 8th bit for parity (error checking) and you have the 8-bit byte all of our computers use. Its very efficient, and EBK rightly demands that we send messages here in Plain Text, which means simply in ASCII code, rather than the disgusting lardy alternatives HTML etc. Now to the balmy idea of space aliens, or whoever or whatever, encoding inane contactee style messages in ASCII code, and putting them into a crop-formation. Why not just get on the Internet and SPAM everybody with the same drivel? I think I know why, its because everybody would ignore it. Lest we forget how unlikely this 'crop formation' is, here again is the image" http://www.raven1.net/crabwood.jpg .. complete with a Streiberesque space alien visage! Frankly, it looks like nothing so much as an easily perpetrated artwork superimposed over a normal image of some farm field. As for the text, here it goes again too: "Beware the bearers of FALSE gifts & their BROKEN PROMISES. Much PAIN but still time. BELIEVE. There is GOOD out there. We OPpose DECEPTION. COnduit CLOSING," .. about as forgettable a blurble as one could imagine. That in turn, I presume comes from this site which Eleanor recommended: http://www.yowusa.com/ .. which now has up some other knee slappers like: * Are There Good Aliens? * Is FOX News Watch Suppressing UFO Disclosure Efforts Through Media Intimidation? * Nibiru Flyby More Likely in 2012 * Will Nibiru Return in 2003? I couldn't find the part about space aliens using ASCII code in crop fields, alas. Maybe even they were too embarrassed to keep it up. The page does play up their late-nite radio appearances: " Hear YOWUSA Authors on Coast To Coast " .. which should pretty much seal the deal for all but the most ignorant and credulous. Somebody asked why there wasn't more response to the original posting about this. That's a tough one. Maybe this List, with one or two exceptions, was at a loss for words that _anyone_ could get sucked in by such drivel. So, what is the motivation of the YOWUSA people? Gee, lets see. Maybe has to do with sales of the book "Godschild Covenant Return of Nibiru" by C-to-C guest Marshall Masters, who only wants $8.95, sold as a paperless E-book. There is a genuine paperback version for $19.95, and a 'Writers Press Paperback' for 29.95. Here's the link for those three items: Act Now! http://www.yowbooks.com/html/gc.html#buy Best wishes - Larry Hatch PS: Has anyone heard anything new about Dr. Greer's free energy device? You know, the one you can easily pick up, plunk down on some sidewalk say, and generate a nice continuous 300+ watt electrical power output with no energy input. No? OK then, does anybody know any of the investors? I'd like to hear from them at least.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 8 2 Reports From Southeast British Columbia From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO <hbccufo@telus.net> Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2003 23:49:54 -0700 Fwd Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2003 07:33:03 -0400 Subject: 2 Reports From Southeast British Columbia Jaffray, British Columbia Date: July 27, 2003 Time: approx: 2:00 a.m. I contacted a person who resides in Jaffray, British Columbia tonight as I heard they were witness to something pretty darn strange. Not only did she see what I am about to tell you, but so did 7 other witnesses. Bringing the total number of folks who observed this to 8. Why I have found this to be an interesting sighting is due to Mr. Peter Davenport from the NUFORC receiving a report from a witness which took place on July 27, 2003 at St. Mary's Lake, 12 miles east of Kimberly, British Columbia. Due to Mr. Davenport receiving the St. Mary's Lake sighting, and myself helping in following up on this case, more witnesses names have come to light. Tomorrow I will be talking with another witness who was in another location who saw the same object pass over head. The one reported to the NUFORC. The NUFORC's report is below: Occurred : 7/27/2003 04:00 (Entered as : 07/27/03 04:00) Reported: 7/31/2003 12:33:30 PM 12:33 Posted: 8/1/2003 Location: Kimberly (St. Mary's Lake), BC Shape: Light Duration:1-2 minutes Telephoned Report: A husband and wife, camped with their children near St. Mary's Lake, approximately 12 miles east of Kimberly, B.C., witnessed a bright, white light appear over the mountains to the west of their position, and appear to course toward their location. The wife estimated that the light was the apparent size of a full Moon, and "spikes" were coming off of it. The witnesses called the local airport, which took a report from them, but which reported that nothing unusual had been reported to their facility. The couple also called a local observatory, which told them that they probably had been witness to the International Space Station. They also called the local Kimberly newspaper, which reported that their offices had received approximately five calls from citizens, reporting strange lights in the vicinity of Kimberly on the same morning. The witnesses will submit reports, when they get access to a computer. They generated a hand-drawn image of what the object looked like. ((NUFORC Note: We are awaiting reports from the witnesses, but will post this report for now. We observe that the International Space Station passed over Kimberly, B.C., at 00:24 hrs. on July 27, but it may not be related to the sighting described by the witnesses. However, the witnesses may not have had a timepiece, to be able to determine an accurate time for their sighting. Please see the following URL for details on the flight path of the ISS: http://www.heavens- above.com/gtrack.asp?date=37829.2690732987&lat=49.683&lng=- 115.983&alt=1110&loc=Kimberly&TZ=MST&satid=25544 Thank you to Mr. Peter Davenport at the NUFORC Witnesses can use the NUFORC's Online Sighting Reporting Form. http://www.ufocenter.com/ The Jaffray, British Columbia Sighting below: Does these two reports hand something to do with one another. As I mentioned above in my opening statement I talked with one of the witnesses who observed something strange on July 27, 2003 with seven others. So at 2:00 a.m. one of the guests who were at the ladies home I chatted with tonight went outside and looked up into the night sky and saw a strange ray of white light which went right across the clear night's sky from the northwest heading southeast running in a straight line. The guest called everyone out to have a look due to it being very strange. Some of the thoughts people had who were observing this mentioned they first thought it may have been the northern lights. But all soon ruled out it being the aurora. The witness said the ray of light was so brilliant that many of the witnesses could see it rotating within it's self. Also it was noted due to the brightness of this light that they could see a black line running the whole length of the white light. The black line stayed in the same spot as the rest of the light rotated as mentioned above. She also said it looked like a jet stream to give a good example of what it looked like. Also the total length of the ray of light was all the same brightness. There was no portion of it brighter or dimmer. It remained constant right across the sky. (HBCC UFO Note: I did bring up the question, did anyone see any aurora at any other time that night? I was told no, none was observed). The witness said the ray of light stayed in the same position for an hour before it started fading away. I also asked if any of them saw any other strange lights in the sky that night, and she told me no. They only observed the ray of light running across the sky. She also told me that the light was rather wide, meaning it wasn't just a small point of light. No sounds were heard at all. Jaffray, B.C. is directly southeast from the original sighting at St. Mary's Lake. Brian Vike, Director HBCC UFO Research Canadian Toll Free UFO Hotline 1 866 262 1989 - Free call. Editor: Canadian Communicator - Paranormal Magazine email: hbccufo@telus.net Website: http://www3.telus.net/public/wilbur8/hbcc_ufo_research.htm
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 8 Re: Mogul 4 That Never Was - Bourdais From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais@wanadoo.fr> Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2003 09:34:46 +0200 Fwd Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2003 07:36:00 -0400 Subject: Re: Mogul 4 That Never Was - Bourdais >From: Andrew Lavoie <lavoiea@rogers.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2003 20:03:51 -0300 >Subject: Re: Mogul 4 That Never Was >>From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais@wanadoo.fr> >>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >>Date: Sat, 2 Aug 2003 18:50:02 +0200 >>Subject: Re: Mogul 4 That Never Was <snip> >>I don't see why the fact that the ML 307A/AP was in production >>in 1944 prevented to study improvements, in a sort of "pre >>production" model for the ML307B/AP. >>Why not? Would it suit you better if we call it a prototype >>series or some sort ? >If we were to accept that Professor Moore errored and totally >missed the fact that there was an ML307A/AP and that the Signal >Laboratory Group forgot to mention the ML307A/AP on the drawing >than why would the signal group ever accept the ML307/AP design >in June 1944 if it didn't work and why would the NYU group use >targets that didn't work, it just doesn't make any sense. Andrew and List, If I understand, you put in doubt the existence of those radar targets, reinforced with flowered tape, because Moore did not know that there was another model, the ML-307A/AP. Moore said that they were an experimental model trying to improve the fragile ML-307/AP targets which were in use in 1944. According to Moore, this led in November 1944 to a new model, which was named ML-307B/AP: "On 21 November 1994 the ML-307/AP modified target was renamed ML-307B/AP" (page 172 of his book). You say that it is does not make sense because there was already another model called ML-307A/AP, which Moore and the Air Force failed to mention. So what ? You say that you have not found what difference there was beetwen MM-307 and ML-307A. This may give a clue for a very simple explanation : it was actually the same model, or there were very minor differences. And I suggest that some people found convenient to distinguish the two models, 307 and 307B, simply by renaming the first one 307-A. Perhaps, that's all there is to it : a little administrative detail, which was not mentioned by the Air Force. Anyway, this little incertitude about names does not mean at all that there was no experimental target reinforced with flowerded tape by a New York company. Moore got the story from the man who ordered them, former Lieutenant Ed Istvan. <snip> >Another interesting detail is how many targets were shipped out >using flowered tape for reinforcement? Yes, we don't how many know targets were shipped. But, since they were very light and pliable, the NYU team may well have carried several dozens if them in their plane. I don't see any problem with that. <snip> >>if there was no flowered taped targets around, where did that >>come from? >The question you raise here is a good one and I don't have a >concrete answer. You see, we still have the problem for which I have proposed a solution. Brazel mentioned flowered tape, and the best explanation so far is that it came from a NYU radar target. But not from Mogul 4, which was cancelled. From one of the many smaller clusters with targets, which were launched almost every day in June. BTW, after the departure of the NYU team in June 7 (they were in Alamogordo, first from June 1 to 7, and then from June 28 to July 8, according to Crary's diary), Crary and military personel stayed there and kept working on balloon launchings (see again his diary). <snip> >What strilkes me the most about >the article on Brazel is how well all of the questions that one >would come up with are covered or answered, right down to >stating that there was no metal in the area that would account >for an engine or a propeller. Someone was definitely >anticipating the questions that would be asked. The mention not finding any engine or propeller is obviously an anticipation of questions which had to be expected from the press. But what about flowered tape ? Do you think that they may have anticipated a question about flowerd tape ?? In short, I think that he have to admit the plausibility of the flowered tape explanation. That does not bother me at all, because it does not help at all the Mogul story, if you care to look at things more closely. Small balloon clusters with targets is what they launched ! There was no Mogul 4, and Mogul 5 was without targets, like all subsequent flights. And all these balloon stories have nothing to do with the real debris field found at the beginning of July. As for the balloon cover-up, it' is not impossible at all that the debris brought at Fort Worth included some flowered tape, although I don't see any on the pictures, Newton's mention of such may have been influenced by the Air Force, of course. Anyway, it should not matter to us. Best regards, Gildas Bourdais
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 8 Re: Early 19th Century Virginia Alien? - Stanford From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2003 10:17:32 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2003 12:05:41 -0400 Subject: Re: Early 19th Century Virginia Alien? - Stanford >From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2003 18:45:17 -0700 (PDT) >Subject: Re: Early 19th Century Virginia Alien? >>From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@earthlink.net> >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2003 13:28:46 -0700 >>Subject: Re: Early 19th Century Virginia Alien? ><snip> >>However, what I am most struck by is the round, glowing area >>below the head in this rendition of the Flatwood's monster. The >>corresponding area in the other image is also depicted as round, >>but with a 6-pointed "Star-of-David" inside... It is also >>interesting to note that Flatwoods, West Virginia, is only about >>100 miles north of Washington County, Virginia..." >http://www.roswellproof.com/19th_century_virginia_alien.html >I find this discussion etremely interesting, but the "entity" >depicted in the artwork looks less humanoid to me and more like >a stylized plant of some kind (perhaps a stalk of corn). That's the way it looks to me, too, Mac. More telling (as to image origin), perhaps, is the fact that the 'head with large eyes' looks suspiciously like the head of the Barn Owl, Tyto alba. Ray Stanford "You know my method. It is founded upon the observance of trifles." -- Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 9 Re: NASA's Naked Emperors Have Spoken - Oberg From: James Oberg <jamesoberg@houston.rr.com> Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2003 10:06:47 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 09 Aug 2003 06:34:42 -0400 Subject: Re: NASA's Naked Emperors Have Spoken - Oberg >From: Larry W. Bryant <overtci@cavtel.net> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2003 18:34:22 -0400 >Subject: NASA's Naked Emperors Have Spoken >TO: Larry W. Bryant >FROM: Lt. Col. Tyrone Woodyard, USAF >DATE: July 21, 2003 >You have requested the following information: >1. A copy of all insider-interview transcripts collected by and >for the specially commissioned board to investigate the Space >Shuttle Columbia disaster. >2. A copy of all NASA-generated and NASA-received records >pertaining to the NASA decision to withhold those transcripts >from public view. If Larry could only keep his cast of characters straight, he might gain a few clues as to what can be successfully FOIA'd. Instead, he continues to be an embarrassment and, frankly IMHO, a tasteless piggy-backer on a national tragedy. The CAIB is most certainly not NASA, as NASA is finding out, nor are they any kind of `naked emperor'. NASA had nothing to do with the CAIB's decision to grant protective anonymity to interviewees - NASA more likely would have preferred to know exactly who on its teams is complaining, so they can enforce their own `group-think' discipline on whistleblowers. That's why I think that if only Larry could keep his cast of characters straight, he might gain a few clues as to what can be successfully FOIA'd. Instead, I can only repeat, he continues to be an embarrassment and, frankly IMHO, a tasteless piggy-backer on a national tragedy. Jim Oberg
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 9 Re: 'Decoded' Message From Alien Crop Glyph - White From: Eleanor White <eleanor@raven1.net> Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2003 08:20:28 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 09 Aug 2003 06:36:26 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Decoded' Message From Alien Crop Glyph - White >From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2003 23:50:01 -0700 >Subject: Re: 'Decoded' Message From Alien Crop Glyph <snip> >That in turn, I presume comes from this site which Eleanor >recommended: Whoa, Larry. When I furnish site links, or images, I am not 'recommending' them. I 'furnish' them to this List because they might be of potential interest to some of the members. I don't 'hair trigger' assume every story is truthful, but at the same time I don't 'hair trigger' assume that just because a news item came from, say, Coast to Coast AM it is automatically garbage. In my 62 years, I've been surprised many times to find that some news that I first took to be nonsense, either because of the content or source, later turned out to be true. I may be more open minded than others because I have experienced first hand technology on a par with that which the abductees report. But please don't hold me guilty by association with individuals, groups, or sources that may have dispensed faulty information at times. Eleanor White
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 9 Re: 'Decoded' Message From Alien Crop Glyph - From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22@fastmail.fm> Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2003 05:14:39 -0800 Fwd Date: Sat, 09 Aug 2003 06:38:33 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Decoded' Message From Alien Crop Glyph - >From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com> >Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2003 11:40:21 -0700 (PDT) >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >Subject: Re: 'Decoded' Message From Alien Crop Glyph >>From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22@fastmail.fm> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >>Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2003 07:59:10 -0800 >>Subject: Re: 'Decoded' Message From Alien Crop Glyph ><snip> >>We had Maurice Osborn give a presentation to our MUFON Ventura >>group as he takes a slightly different approach and interprets >>glyphs in terms of technology. He accepts the Crabwood formation >>as genuine and expects another formation to follow this month. >He's not alone! Human-made or otherwise, I think we'll get >another "message." >>He also suggested composing an answer using the same ASCII code >>(it saves space) >This is the first time someone has explicitly given a reason for >using ASCII instead of, say, New Times Roman. Maybe the ASCII >format was a legitimate attempt to compress data rather than >impress naive Earthlings. Using an 8-bit code in a spiral design actually compresses the space the message occupies. Note both upper case and lower case letters are encoded by ASCII. See: http://www.cplusplus.com/doc/papers/ascii.html As I see some think this is just a prank possibly played by geeks who want to fool people with deciphering a simple message (which seems preposterous). It isn't that this glyph is not a hoax, but the actual evidence of a hoax was not found or not reported. To some, the message makes sense. Maurice thought it made sense. The problem is that such a potentially important and different formation such as this isn't throughly investigated. Let us hope if another one appears this month that investigators make a thorough examination. It is an unfortunate fact that many of these glyphs are hoaxed by organized groups. -Bill Hamilton
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 9 Re: 'Decoded' Message From Alien Crop Glyph - From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2003 12:25:14 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 09 Aug 2003 07:07:56 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Decoded' Message From Alien Crop Glyph - >From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2003 23:50:01 -0700 >Subject: Re: 'Decoded' Message From Alien Crop Glyph >>From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com> >>Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2003 11:40:21 -0700 (PDT) >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >>Subject: Re: 'Decoded' Message From Alien Crop Glyph >>>From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22@fastmail.fm> >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >>>Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2003 07:59:10 -0800 >>>Subject: Re: 'Decoded' Message From Alien Crop Glyph >><snip> >Somebody asked why there wasn't more response to the original >posting about this. >That's a tough one. Maybe this List, with one or two exceptions, >was at a loss for words that _anyone_ could get sucked in by >such drivel. Amen, Larry. That's the biggest crock I've heard since 1950s contactee Lee Crandall* delivered half a used bar of Ivory Soap (with white chicken feathers pressed into it) to his publishers and told them it was a spare piece of Brother Bocco's Venusian spaceship made of "...magnetized white dove feathers, given in consolation of your spines not being sufficiently crystallized as to enable you to see and approach the spaceship personally..."! The publishers showed me the feathered soap bar in all seriousness! *See for reference: The Venusians, by Lee Crandall, New Age Publishing Company, Los Angeles,1955. It includes a photo portrait of the alleged Venusian Brother Bocco, and another of him sitting on a park bench in Los Angeles' notorious gay hang- out, Pershing Square. An image of a pink rose begins every chapter, gradually opening toward the final glorious blossoming! :) Yes, Larry, crop circle translation is 'getting pretty deep'. It reminds me of the way some people have made up fictional units of measure for the Great Pyramid and use the measurements to read the date of the Second Coming, etc. With my wading boots on, Ray Stanford "You know my method. It is founded upon the observance of trifles." -- Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 9 Re: 'Decoded' Message From Alien Crop Glyph - From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com> Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2003 09:41:53 -0700 Fwd Date: Sat, 09 Aug 2003 07:18:45 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Decoded' Message From Alien Crop Glyph - >From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2003 23:50:01 -0700 >Subject: Re: 'Decoded' Message From Alien Crop Glyph >>From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com> >>Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2003 11:40:21 -0700 (PDT) >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >>Subject: Re: 'Decoded' Message From Alien Crop Glyph >>>From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22@fastmail.fm> >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >>>Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2003 07:59:10 -0800 >>>Subject: Re: 'Decoded' Message From Alien Crop Glyph >><snip> >>>We had Maurice Osborn give a presentation to our MUFON Ventura >>>group as he takes a slightly different approach and interprets >>>glyphs in terms of technology. He accepts the Crabwood formation >>>as genuine and expects another formation to follow this month. >>He's not alone! Human-made or otherwise, I think we'll get >>another "message." >>>He also suggested composing an answer using the same ASCII code >>>(it saves space) >>This is the first time someone has explicitly given a reason for >>using ASCII instead of, say, New Times Roman. Maybe the ASCII >>format was a legitimate attempt to compress data rather than >>impress naive Earthlings. >Hello Mac: >Some nit-picky details here: >ASCII is not a type-font, as in New Times Roman, or Los Angeles >Times Screamer. ASCII is a means of encoding the letters of the >alphabet, numerals (1,2,3..), punctuation ( , ; : ' etc.) and >"stunts" like the carriage return, line feed, spaces, end-of- >file etc. >Each character or stunt has a NUMBER assigned, making it a >'code' as in ASCII code. For example, the upper case letter A is >65-decimal, which is 41 in Hexadecimal, which is 1000001 or some >such in binary code. >The numbers 0-127 can thus be encoded in 7 bits of info. Add an >8th bit for parity (error checking) and you have the 8-bit byte >all of our computers use. Its very efficient, and EBK rightly >demands that we send messages here in Plain Text, which means >simply in ASCII code, rather than the disgusting lardy >alternatives HTML etc. Larry, List, EBK, Thanks for this informative explanation on ASCII code. >Now to the balmy idea of space aliens, or whoever or whatever, >encoding inane contactee style messages in ASCII code, and >putting them into a crop-formation. >Why not just get on the Internet and SPAM everybody with the >same drivel? I think I know why, its because everybody would >ignore it. Most folks ignore these messages now, don't they. I think the overall impression is that all circles are hoaxes, or something along those lines. >Lest we forget how unlikely this 'crop formation' is, here again >is the image" >http://www.raven1.net/crabwood.jpg >.. complete with a Streiberesque space alien visage! Yes its hard to believe that this isn't hoaxed until you try to figure out how it was accomplished. >Frankly, it looks like nothing so much as an easily perpetrated >artwork superimposed over a normal image of some farm field. Yes but how? Any ideas? Have you seen this article: http://www.sciencenews.org/20030628/mathtrek.asp >As for the text, here it goes again too: >"Beware the bearers of FALSE gifts & their BROKEN PROMISES. Much >PAIN but still time. BELIEVE. There is GOOD out there. We OPpose >DECEPTION. COnduit CLOSING," >.. about as forgettable a blurble as one could imagine. Unless the aliens are truly mystified by our behavior and reactions to their attempt at contact. <snip> >PS: Has anyone heard anything new about Dr. Greer's free energy >device? You know, the one you can easily pick up, plunk down on >some sidewalk say, and generate a nice continuous 300+ watt >electrical power output with no energy input. No? OK then, does >anybody know any of the investors? I'd like to hear from them at >least. Yes, we should have heard something by now. Ed
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 9 The Ufological Research Webring From: Terry Groff <terry@terrygroff.com> Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2003 12:27:19 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 09 Aug 2003 07:41:36 -0400 Subject: The Ufological Research Webring Hello Listoids, I have started The Ufological Research Webring specifically for sites that deal with true scientific investigations and research into the UFO Phenomena and related subjects. I know that many of you operate excellent websites of this nature and I would love for you to join this ring. It is absolutely free and only requires the placement of the webring navigation code on your page. If you have any trouble entering the navigation code I'll be glad to help. I'm not looking for paranormal sites per se unless that can show themselves to be truly scientific and sober in their investigations. Heavily biased sites may not be included (i.e.. CSICOP) Recommendations from this List will be gratefully accepted. For more info visit: http://x.webring.com/hub?ring=ufologicalresear;id=1;hub To Join click: http://x.webring.com/wrman?ring=ufologicalresear;addsite For WebRing Info go to: http://webring.com/ When you join the ring, I will visit your site (if I haven't already) and if it meets the simple criteria I will approve it. If you have already installed the SSNB navigation code (supplied when you join) I will activate your site immediately. If the code hasn't been installed yet your site will be in suspension until it's installed correctly. I'm looking forward to your participation. Help me make this ring grow. Terry Groff http://terrygroff.com/ufotools/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 9 UFO Seen From Barrio Norte Argentina From: Scott Corrales <lornis1@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2003 15:45:54 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 09 Aug 2003 08:05:23 -0400 Subject: UFO Seen From Barrio Norte Argentina SOURCE: EcoDiarios (www.ecodiarios.com.ar) Necochea, Argentina DATE: August 8, 2003 UFO Seen from Barrio Norte A resident of our city was startled last night by a strange flying object that crossed the sky. She alerted her neighbors to the sighting. According to comments made to Ecos Diarios by a resident at Inmediaciones 60 y 49, sighting took place around 21:15 hours by a friend of hers who lives in Barrio Norte. The startled woman defined the object as a "flying saucer" but did not provide greater detail on the surprising phenomenon. At the time, the sky was completely clear and viewing conditions were optimal. For a number of years, our city had not recorded UFO sightings, or at least an account of this nature had not been made public for a long time. ==================== Translation (C) 2003 Institute of Hispanic Ufology Special thanks to Gloria Coluchi.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 9 Re: 'Decoded' Message From Alien Crop Glyph - From: Dave Morton <Marspyrs@aol.com> Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2003 14:29:39 EDT Fwd Date: Sat, 09 Aug 2003 08:14:39 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Decoded' Message From Alien Crop Glyph - Typo in my last submission: Please change the line below from: decimal 1-255, or hex 00 thru FF, or binary 0000 0000 thru ------------- To: decimal 0-255, or hex 00 thru FF, or binary 0000 0000 thru -------------- My brain went on vacation for a few seconds. Sorry. Thanks, Dave Morton
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 9 University Of New Mexico Returns To Roswell? From: Eustaquio Anddrea Patounas <socex@terra.com.br> Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2003 22:59:10 -0300 Fwd Date: Sat, 09 Aug 2003 08:28:50 -0400 Subject: University Of New Mexico Returns To Roswell? Source: Voice of America http://www.voanews.com/article.cfm?objectID=FF6FDCC3-AC6F-4E6A-B9DE65BC5CB65952 08 Aug 2003, 18:24 UTC Roswell Robin Rupli New Mexico, described as the "Land of Enchantment," might just as well be called the "land of mystery." The town of Roswell, a farming and ranching community in the southeastern part of the state, has come to be associated with unidentified flying objects. This stems from an incident 56 years ago when a strange, flying object crashed from the sky into a rancher's field. Eyewitnesses reported seeing everything from dead aliens to unusual materials and hieroglyphic-type writing. Officials at the nearby military base maintained that the wreckage was fallen weather balloons. But inconsistencies in the story has kept the mystery of Roswell alive for over half a century. The residents of Roswell clearly have a sense of humor. Along the town's main street, the Crash Down Diner has a replica of a silver spaceship attached to the roof; there's a bookshop that advertises "Just say 'No' to Aliens"; and a furniture store announces its "UFO-Sale" with a line of little cardboard alien creatures waving from the window. But for those with memories of the events of July 1947, Roswell's alleged extraterrestrial experience is serious business. "See I never told this story until 10 years ago," said Glenn Dennis. "No one knew. Because if I had told this about aliens and all that, they probably would have figured I sniffed too much formaldehyde. So I just kept my mouth shut." Mr. Dennis is co-founder of the UFO Museum and Research Center in Roswell, which attracts more than 200,000 visitors a year. In 1947 Mr. Dennis was a young mortuary worker contracted to the military when he got a call from an official at the Roswell Army Airbase asking about childsize caskets and how to preserve tissue exposed to the elements. More strange things followed, he says, including running into a nurse at the base who was "very upset" and told him she had accidentally walked in on the autopsy of a decomposing alien. He says she made a sketch for him of what she saw. "When she walked into this supply room, that's where these guys were examining this crash bag," he said. "She was recording it and then she just flew all to pieces. Started screaming and by 3:30 p.m. that afternoon she was gone. And none of us have found her to this day." What is certain about what happened is this: Around July 4, 56 years ago, a Mac Brazel, a rancher employed on the Foster Ranch outside of Roswell comes up upon a field, about a kilometer long, of unrecognizable debris, that appears to have fallen from the sky. He reports this to the nearby military base and officials go to the ranch to investigate. On July 8 the Roswell Army Air Field's public information office issues a press release across the country. Headline edition, July 8 1947: The Army Airforce has announced that a flying disc has been found and is now in possession of the Army. Army officers say the missile, found sometime last week, has been inspected at Roswell, New Mexico and sent to Wright Field Ohio, for further inspections. Within hours of the press release, higher military officials retracted the statement, saying it was a mistake, that the real crash content was a weather balloon. Jesse Marcel, Jr. is the son of Major Jesse Marcel, who was first called out to investigate the debris field. Mr. Marcel, who was 11 at the time, recalls something very different. "My father was called out one night to the ranch where this thing had landed, picked up some of the debris, loaded it into the back of our 1942 Buick and swung by the house to show my mother and myself what he had out there," he recalled. "He put it on the kitchen floor, woke up my mother and myself and said, 'Come look at this.' I looked at the debris on the floor, there was just a lot of metallic parts, some black plastic material. He wanted us to look for electronic equipment. I found something unusual. You could see some sort of writing, sort of purple, metallic geometric shapes. "So the story died three days after it happened and didn't start again until 1978," said Dennis Balthaser, a consultant and researcher for the UFO Museum in Roswell. He says it wasn't until the 1970's that several books came out that began to re- examine the Roswell incident. He says many of the eyewitnesses interviewed said they were warned by the government never to speak to anyone about what they saw. Mr. Balthaser says his own relentless research made him too, the target of government surveillance. "I was told by a retired intelligence man that I'm being monitored," he said. "That's fine. I'm not doing anything to violate national security. I'm sitting here with you telling you what I know. And if this is violating national security, then tell me what happened. Because it wasn't a weather balloon. Not if I'm violating national security. If Roswell is a hoax, prove it to us. If it's a hoax then I'll go fishing." In 1997, the 50th anniversary of the Roswell incident, the U.S. Airforce released their final report to address questions about reported bodies found at the Roswell crash site. No longer stating it was "weather balloons," Colonel John Haynes said the bodies were probably "project test dummies carried by Air Force high altitude balloons" related to something called "Project Mogul." The only problem with that explanation, say UFO researchers, is that Project Mogul did not start until 1953, six years after the crash. Today most of the residents of Roswell, New Mexico embrace their reputation of being known as "UFO Capital of the World." Every July 4 holiday, the town holds its annual UFO Festival. Festival coordinator Carl Lucas puts it this way: "There are always those grumps and those nay-sayers who are embarrassed who say, 'I don't want to be known as the UFO Capital of the World.' Sure, Roswell has a cheese factory where all the mozzarella cheese you can eat anywhere in the United States of America is made right here in Roswell. But we're not the Wisconsin of the desert. We're the UFO Capital of the World, that's what we're known for," he said. And now, an archeological team with the University of New Mexico has returned to the Roswell crash site to begin new research on soil samples using the latest technologies. The results of the dig will be the subject of a new cable television documentary to be aired on the Sci-Fi Channel later this year, possibly bringing to light the truth about what really was found on the Foster ranch in 1947.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 9 Re: Lake Superior: 1953 - Anonomous Source - From: John Crawford - Subversive Element <webmaster@subversiveelement.com> Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2003 19:35:57 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Sat, 09 Aug 2003 08:55:23 -0400 Subject: Re: Lake Superior: 1953 - Anonomous Source - [Non-Subscriber Post] >From: Gord Heath <GHeath@udl.com> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2003 16:48:29 -0700 >Subject: Lake Superior: 1953 - Anonomous Source >To: <webmaster@subversiveelement.com> >I am writing you in response to your article concerning >the "Kinross Missing F-89" incident (Nov. 23, 1953), >posted on your website: >http://www.subversiveelement.com/UFO_BattleCreek.html >I have done a fair bit of research on this incident, and I >feel the information quoted from your anonomous source is >incorrect. >No where have I ever read or heard indication that two >aircraft were sent on the alert. I think that if this bit of >information were true, there is no reason why the Air Force >would not include it in the official Accident Report. No one I >have ever talked to has ever mentioned the possibility that >another plane was sent on the same alert and turned back due >to mechanical problems. >Note that two other F-89s were LATER sent from Kinross Air Force >Base to search for the missing F-89. One was piloted by William >Mingenbach and the other by Lt. Nordeck. The first of these >craft was in the air about 7:15 PM EST, about 20 minutes after >the USAF reported last radar sighting of the F-89 on the >intercept. >Battle Creek, Michigan is about 300 miles south of Sault Ste. >Marie. I am somewhat doubtful that radar from that time had a >300 or 400 mile range required to observe this intercept from >that location. I suggest that you should consider posting this >material to UFO UpDates so other researchers will have an >opportunity to comment on it. >Gord Heath >UFOBC Thank you for taking an interest in my site. As far as the incident involved, I am a close associate of the man who gave me the information, and have absolutley no reason to question the veracity of his story. Thanks again for your interest. Best Regards, John Crawford Founder Subversive Element.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 9 UFO NEWS (Australia) August 2003 From: Sheryl Gottschall <gottscha@bigpond.net.au> Date: Sat, 09 Aug 2003 15:52:40 +1000 Fwd Date: Sat, 09 Aug 2003 08:59:48 -0400 Subject: UFO NEWS (Australia) August 2003 UFO News (Australia) August 2003 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ A report on the activities of UFO Research Queensland Inc. Brisbane, Australia. www.uforq.asn.au Compiled by Sheryl Gottschall "A belated discovery, one that causes considerable anguish, is that no one can persuade another to change. Each of us guards a gate of change that can only be unlocked from the inside. We cannot open the gate of another, either by argument or by emotional appeal." - The Aquarian Conspiracy by Marilyn Ferguson ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Sightings/Encounters/Investigations This last month reports have been consistent. Of interest was a call from a man who had held a position in the Navy from the late 60's onwards, and during this time he was stationed at a base where he had received a package asking for it's contents to be sent to matallurgy for identification. When he removed the contents he described an object as 6 inches by 8 inches by one inch thick, honeycombed and smelling like cardboard. He said it was very smooth and greeny-bronze in colour. Later in 1992 he came across the book by John Pinkney called Alien Honeycomb which refers to the alleged Greenbank UFO Crash just outside Brisbane and he identified one of the photos of the debris in the book as the same as what he had handled some years earlier. Upon further conversation it was revealed that this caller also had a missing time experience while in the Navy. When he was 17/18 years of age he was hitchiking near Moorooya on his way back to the Naval base with his friend and fellow RAN personnel. Their last memory was that they were walking along the Princess Highway at midnight and the next thing they know it was daylight, 6.30am and they were standing on the side of the road. Someone had stopped to offer them a lift and they were told they were only 5 miles from the Naval base. Somehow they had managed to walk 95 miles in 6 hours yet neither had any recollection of the previous 6 or so hours. What makes this case more intriguing was that one month later his friend was found unfit for duty due to psychological reasons and was airlifted off the ship they were stationed on never to be seen again. Despite the callers attempts he has never been able to track down his friend. Other sightings have been from - Murgon - big silver ball of light half size of moon with tail Deception Bay - circular lights chasing each other Pullenvale - big silver round ball with red glow hitting the ground then disappearing Edens Landing - 2 orange balls of flame travelling over Brisbane from Gold Coast We also received a close encounter report from Thangool which occurred a couple of years ago. It was just before dawn when a woman woke up and saw a being at the end of her bed. It had a wide head going down to a narrow chin, round eyes that were completely white and it was wearing a white tight fitting suit. It just disappeared in front of her while she watched. One last interesting report was from a man who was driving to Crystal Creek to a friend's place near Mt Warning in NSW. It was dusk when he saw 2 lights in the sky. The lights sent him a telepathic message saying "we are waiting to meet you at your friends place". When he got closer he received another message saying "the little one is frightened we will leave and meet you at another time." When he asked his female friend who was with him in the car she confirmed she was indeed frightened. This last report suggests ETs exist who do take humanity's response to them into consideration when they initiate contact. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Media Radio 4BC During the last month our special guest on the Paranormal Panel radio show was the woman who was the fiance of Frederick Valentich at the time of his disappearance in 1978. Rhonda came forward in an attempt to bring further information about Fredericks disappearance to light. One caller who responded was the son of a woman (now deceased) who was in Canberra at the time in a facility which monitored air traffic control activity around the country. The communication between Valentich and Melbourne Air Traffic Control was being monitored when she and other staff were ordered to leave the office at the time. To the woman this was an unprecedented action and she found out later that tapes of the Valentich incident were sent to the United States. . Tune in to the Paranormal Panel radio show every Friday at 9pm 1116 on your AM dial. i1197 Community Radio - Steven Spencer Psychic Show On Sunday 27 July and 3 August I was asked to speak on this radio show which between the two shows was a total of 4 hours. Needless to say we covered a broad range of aspects on the UFO subject. On the second evening I brought along a guest who had close encounters and who had also spoken about his experiences at the recent National UFO Conference. His first experience occurred when he was a teenager in New Zealand. He and a friend had been watching a light off in the distance when it split in two. Soon after a large craft appeared over them and shot a blue beam of light down which engulfed them both. The next thing he remembers was running while looking for his friend. They eventually got home and the next day there were reports of UFO sightings in the area, one made by a policeman. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 3rd Australian National UFO Conference Review For a summary of this week-end conference held in June 2003 go to: http://www.uforq.asn.au/about/conference.html ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ July meeting highlights : At our July meeting we decided to extend beyond our usual focus of UFOs for a change and have our own Paranormal Panel with panelists Glennys Mackay (psychic and medium), Tino Pezzimenti (Chairperson UFORQ), Katrena Rose (professional clairvoyant), Hans (UFO experiencer) and Jack (dowser) who attended from the Sunshine Coast area. This proved to be a most interesting evening covering various paranormal incidents. Hans briefly spoke of his ET encounter and subsequent telepathic communication with human looking ETs. Hans claims they are helping him to do healing work. Tino spoke of his childhood paranormal experiences which also included spirit hauntings of children who had suffocated in a fridge in his family home years before his family lived in it. Glennys spoke of her early UFO sightings and later encounters which she believes prepared her for the work she has been doing since. Katrena spoke of her sisters abduction experiences and how they had affected her health. Jack does a lot of work with a pendulum and believes when he does this he speaks to God. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Sample Journal UFORQ publishes a bi-monthly journal entitled UFO ENCOUNTER now in it's 38th year of publication, which is available for subscription. To enjoy a sample issue with our compliments please go to www.uforq.asn.au/publications/publications.html ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ UFO Research Queensland History For those who may not be aware UFO Research Queensland was established in 1956. For a report on the group history go to http://www.uforq.asn.au/about/history.html ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Contact details : UFO Research Qld P.O. Box 222 Brisbane Albert Street BC Q 4002 Australia Web www.uforq.asn.au Email info@uforq.asn.au Chairperson: Tino Pezzimenti tinop60@optusnet.com.au Public relations: Sheryl Gottschall gottscha@bigpond.net.au
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 9 Another Kimberly British Columbia Witness From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO <hbccufo@telus.net> Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2003 00:20:57 -0700 Fwd Date: Sat, 09 Aug 2003 09:39:19 -0400 Subject: Another Kimberly British Columbia Witness Kimberly, British Columbia Date: July 27, 2003 Time: approx: 1:30 p.m. This is a follow-up to the St. Mary's Lake, B.C. sighting reported to Mr. Peter Davenport at the NUFORC An additional witness interviewed. I telephoned another witness tonight about the July 27, 2003 sighting in the Kimberly/St. Mary's Lake area. The witness told me that she was in bed, and couldn't sleep due to the warm temperatures outside. Her bedroom blinds were up and the window fully open and then she gave out a cry, "Holy cow!". Their home is up on a large hill which gives them a very good view of the surrounding area. The witness noticed, what she thought was a bright star, or maybe an airplane, coming in with its landing lights on. She said it was extremely large in size and flying very low. She lay there waiting to see a green and red light, thinking it was certainly an aircraft coming down the St. Mary's Valley heading in to land at the near-by airport. aircraft take the route down the St. Mary's Valley when heading to Vancouver and back to Kimberly B.C. The bright white light moved faster as it grew closer. Suddenly, it started zig zagging and she lost sight of it. So she jumped out of bed and headed to her front door. By the time she unlocked her front door and stepped outside the light was gone. I told the witness, after taking her report, about the 8 witnesses who saw a ray of light over the Jaffray, B.C. area which I've previously reported on. She told me the light/object was traveling southeast from Kimberly, B.C. and would have flown over Jaffray, B.C. What makes this interesting is that we are finding more witnesses to the sighting which was originally reported to Peter Davenport at NUFORC, plus other people who witnessed the ray of light and the object itself. From what I am gathering, the light/object may have caused the ray of light. But of course this is a guess on my part. I was also contacted by a very kind person today who read my report and who told me of another witness, who posted on a UFO forum board about a ray of light - same location, different witness. That witness took pictures of the light ray and I am now trying to track her down and call her to gather more information on this whole event. Thanks the witnesses for their reports. Brian Vike Director HBCC UFO Research Canadian Toll Free UFO Hotline 1 866 262 1989 - Free call. Editor: Canadian Communicator - Paranormal Magazine email: hbccufo@telus.net Website: http://www3.telus.net/public/wilbur8/hbcc_ufo_research.htm
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 9 Re: 'Decoded' Message From Alien Crop Glyph - Hatch From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net> Date: Sat, 09 Aug 2003 05:10:23 -0700 Fwd Date: Sat, 09 Aug 2003 09:41:42 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Decoded' Message From Alien Crop Glyph - Hatch >From: Eleanor White <eleanor@raven1.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2003 08:20:28 -0400 >Subject: Re: 'Decoded' Message From Alien Crop Glyph >>From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >>Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2003 23:50:01 -0700 >>Subject: Re: 'Decoded' Message From Alien Crop Glyph ><snip> >>That in turn, I presume comes from this site which Eleanor >>recommended: >Whoa, Larry. When I furnish site links, or images, I am not >'recommending' them. I 'furnish' them to this List because they >might be of potential interest to some of the members. >I don't 'hair trigger' assume every story is truthful, but at >the same time I don't 'hair trigger' assume that just because a >news item came from, say, Coast to Coast AM it is automatically >garbage. In my 62 years, I've been surprised many times to find >that some news that I first took to be nonsense, either because >of the content or source, later turned out to be true. >I may be more open minded than others because I have experienced >first hand technology on a par with that which the abductees >report. But please don't hold me guilty by association with >individuals, groups, or sources that may have dispensed faulty >information at times. Hello Eleanor: Gee! You could have fooled me. In the past, you have, 'furnished' so many oddball items from late nite radio etc., that I got the impression you bought into all of that stuff. I vaguely recall you writing that I would 'eat crow' over the free-energy devices for example, thus the PS about Greer's 300- watt sidewalk generator (the one that apparently walked away under its own steam... chuckle! ) So, when you 'furnished' the alien visage, complete with the ASCII coded message from the space aliens, links to the popularly priced producers of this hogwash etc., I rashly assumed that you were presenting it as something worthy of consideration... something that might be on the level! If not, then what was your purpose? Were you trying to show how silly and credulous _other_ people are? Just curious - Larry
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 9 Re: 'Decoded' Message From Alien Crop Glyph - Hatch From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net> Date: Sat, 09 Aug 2003 05:44:48 -0700 Fwd Date: Sat, 09 Aug 2003 09:57:26 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Decoded' Message From Alien Crop Glyph - Hatch >From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22@fastmail.fm> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2003 05:14:39 -0800 >Subject: Re: 'Decoded' Message From Alien Crop Glyph <snip> >>>We had Maurice Osborn give a presentation to our MUFON Ventura >>>group as he takes a slightly different approach and interprets >>>glyphs in terms of technology. He accepts the Crabwood formation >>>as genuine and expects another formation to follow this month. >>He's not alone! Human-made or otherwise, I think we'll get >>another "message." I can all but guarantee that the authors of the circular ASCII message from space will grace us with another message. >>>He also suggested composing an answer using the same ASCII code >>>(it saves space) >>This is the first time someone has explicitly given a reason for >>using ASCII instead of, say, New Times Roman. Maybe the ASCII >>format was a legitimate attempt to compress data rather than >>impress naive Earthlings. >Using an 8-bit code in a spiral design actually compresses the >space the message occupies. >Note both upper case and lower case letters are encoded by >ASCII. See: >http://www.cplusplus.com/doc/papers/ascii.html Thanks for the useful link, Bill. As long as I have been programming, I still have to look up the codes for special stunts etc. >As I see some think this is just a prank possibly played by >geeks who want to fool people with deciphering a simple message >(which seems preposterous). It isn't that this glyph is not a >hoax, but the actual evidence of a hoax was not found or not >reported. To some, the message makes sense. Maurice thought it >made sense. >The problem is that such a potentially important and different >formation such as this isn't throughly investigated. Let us hope >if another one appears this month that investigators make a >thorough examination. It is an unfortunate fact that many of >these glyphs are hoaxed by organized groups. I question whether there is in fact any such glyph in an actual farm field; as opposed to an artwork done on somebody's computer. But back to ASCII - something I have studied..... In the link you kindly provided, there are two versions of 'extended ASCII'. These drop the 8th parity bit, and use that to double the number or representable characters/stunts. I had to play games like that with the *U* Database at times, back when time was cheaper and memory was expensive. Both lists give us an oddball assortment of characters, little graphics, some European letters with their tildes, omelets, snoodles and whatnot. [burp!] Neither extended list (OEM or ANSI) provides us with the UMMO symbol. Maybe that's a good thing. It forces the latter-day Ummites to use HTML in their emails. That in turn sends any messages sent here straight to the SPAM folder. I set up an email filter to do that, as most SPAM lately is sent in HTML! - - - One more time, and I hate to be a pest. Here is the crop formation image: http://www.raven1.net/crabwood.jpg Is there a person on this List who thinks this is is a message sent to us from space aliens, as opposed to some elaborate hoax? Please stand up and be counted, I'm still working on those email filters. What are the precise coordinates of this farm field artwork by the way? Do they charge admission? Can I bring my own beer? Best wishes - Larry Hatch
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 9 Re: 'Decoded' Message From Alien Crop Glyph - Hatch From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net> Date: Sat, 09 Aug 2003 06:32:31 -0700 Fwd Date: Sat, 09 Aug 2003 10:01:24 -0400 Subject: Re: 'Decoded' Message From Alien Crop Glyph - Hatch >From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker@earthlink.net> >To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2003 12:25:14 -0400 >Subject: Re: 'Decoded' Message From Alien Crop Glyph >>From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >>Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2003 23:50:01 -0700 >>Subject: Re: 'Decoded' Message From Alien Crop Glyph <snip> >>Somebody asked why there wasn't more response to the original >>posting about this. >>That's a tough one. Maybe this List, with one or two exceptions, >>was at a loss for words that _anyone_ could get sucked in by >>such drivel. >Amen, Larry. That's the biggest crock I've heard since 1950s >contactee Lee Crandall* delivered half a used bar of Ivory Soap >(with white chicken feathers pressed into it) to his publishers >and told them it was a spare piece of Brother Bocco's Venusian >spaceship made of "...magnetized white dove feathers, given in >consolation of your spines not being sufficiently crystallized >as to enable you to see and approach the spaceship >personally..."! Venusian magnetized dove feathers... from Brother Bocco! Italians on Venus!! Maybe some nice Venusian Lasagna? I cannot add anything to that Ray, unless its white Italo- Venusian Chianti. With local temperatures hot enough to melt lead, its hard to envision white wines on Venus. BTW >The publishers showed me the feathered soap bar in all >seriousness! I lived in California all my life. I thought I'd seen it all. Now Arnold Schwartzenegger (sp?) is running for governor. Who are the Democrats going to put up, Jennifer Lopez or Brittney Spears? There is surprise left for everyone, not just the kids. Best - Larry
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 9 Re: Parliamentary Discussion of UFOs - Koi From: Isaac Koi <isaackoi2@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2003 14:49:14 +0100 Fwd Date: Sat, 09 Aug 2003 10:08:48 -0400 Subject: Re: Parliamentary Discussion of UFOs - Koi Nick and List, I emailed the following reply to Nick Pope's message to UpDates a few days ago but it has not yet appeared on the List (although a later email from me has). Since I'm new to sending emails to UpDates (and email Lists in general) I am not sure whether this absence is due to a communication failure or because my email failed to fulfil some criteria for posting on UpDates. In case it is the former, I am resending my reply. Regards, Isaac Koi ----- >From: Nick Pope <nick@popemod.freeserve.co.uk> >Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2003 11:17:48 +0100 >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Subject: Re: Parliamentary Discussion Of UFOs - Pope >>From: Isaac Koi <isaackoi2@yahoo.co.uk> >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2003 23:49:30 +0100 >>Subject: UK Parliamentary Discussion Of UFOs <snip> >>http://www.smartgroups.com/vault/ufoinquiry/Introductory >>http://www.smartgroups.com/vault/ufoinquiry/Hansard <snip> >Isaac and List, >This is an extremely interesting post, and I hope List members >take the time to go through the four documents posted at the >two links above, because a lot of hard work has gone into this. >Isaac has produced what will be a useful resource for anyone >wanting to study the way in which the British Government has >viewed the UFO phenomenon over the years. The second document >on the second link will be particularly useful in this respect, as >Isaac has drawn together the most comprehensive database of UFO- >related Hansard extracts that I have seen. Many thanks for the generous comments. I hope, however, that the second document on the second link is not taken as anything more than I intended it to be, i.e. part of the preliminary draft of one Working Document circulated merely: (a) to illustrate the Working Documents proposal detailed in the introductory documents at the first of the above links, and (b) to provoke some discussion of that proposed approach in an attempt to reduce the amount of reinvention of the wheel that occurs in this field. >The most interesting and useful of these, I believe, are Lord >Hill-Norton's four questions (two dated 14 October 1998, one >dated 19 November 1998 and one dated 17 December 1998) >concerning Ministry of Defence UFO files. The responses to these >questions consist of a list of around two hundred individual >files. <snip> I certainly agree that the lists of files given in response to those questions are very useful, although I would also highlight the relatively lengthy speech of Lord Strabolgi in the House of Lords debate on 18 January 1979 as one which repays careful reading. That speech provides the most detailed, high-level statement on behalf of Her Majesty's Government in relation to UFO reports (and related issues of freedom of information) of which I am aware, yet it does not seem to have previously appeared on the Internet. >the list has >clearly informed much work in recent years on the part of >researchers such as Nick Redfern, Georgina Bruni and Tim Good. The lists of files presumably also assisted Dave Clarke and Andy Roberts in their work on "Out of the Shadows" and their various articles. >Isaac raises in his commentaries a number of issues relating to >the various Hansard extracts, and more generally to the British >Government's policy on - and handling of - the UFO issue. Having >stewarded the Ministry of Defence's UFO project from 1991 to >1994, I can identify with a number of the problems that Isaac >identifies, especially in relation to apparent inconsistencies >in official statements on the issue, statistical anomalies, >etc. >The following observations might be of use in addressing some >of Isaac's points: <snip> With one signigificant exception in relation to the provision of information, highlighted below, I would agree with almost everything you said in your observations. >What looks like conspiracy is almost certainly going to be >bureaucracy. <snip> Very likely. Reading UFO policy documents at the PRO, one of the themes that emerges is that most relevant civil servants viewed UFO reports and related requests as a very low priority which did not deserve much (if any) effort on their part. This doubtless accounts for at least some of the statements (and silences) over the years which have given rise to allegations of a conspiracy. Surely there are lessons to be learnt from this about, for example, the public perception of government statements (or the lack of them) on emotive issues? <snip> >the MOD strives >to treat everyone with courtesy and respect, and to answer >requests for information as fully as possible. Your suggestion that the MOD has strived to answer request for information "as fully as possible" is rather more difficult to agree with than your other observations in the light of issues such as those mentioned in my original email (paragraphs 6(a) to (d) of the first document at the first of the above links). >I hope Isaac's post and the subsequent emails he promises >provoke the interest and debate that they merit. I'm happy to >comment on specific civil service, parliamentary and MOD >procedures, where I have direct knowledge of them, and where I >can do so within the Official Secrets Act. I'd like to take you up on your kind offer to comment on specific civil service procedures - I'll send you a few questions off-List, if I may, in the near future. I have some experience of civil service and parliamentary procedures, but my experience does not relate specifically to the MOD. Before I send the next batch of the emails I promised (relating to the UFO related files held at the PRO, as outlined in the second of my introductory documents) I would like to receive some comments (on or off this List) on the proposed Working Documents approach. The comments I have received off-list so far have generally suggested that the risk of plagiarism would prevent such an open approach succeeding and have instead advocated that I work with particular researchers outside of open lists such as UFO Updates. Whilst this would doubtless assist me in my personal pursuits, it does not solve the wider problem of how individuals are to build on work already done but not (at present) easily accessible or discoverable. I sincerely hope to see some debate on the potential development of some basic Working Documents and methods for disseminating drafts of Working Documents so that they may be refined and made available to others. Kind Regards, Isaac Koi
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 11 UFOIN From: Chris Parr <cparr@talk21.com> Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2003 01:34:15 +0100 Fwd Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 09:57:29 -0400 Subject: UFOIN In Feb 1999, BUFOSC UK had organised a mini Conference which coincided with the reformation of UFOIN - the premier release of UFO REVELATION by Bufosc author and researcher Tim Matthews. This day was a wonderful conference as the speakers were committed and objective. Jenny Randles educated the interested parties to be thorough, however mundane the explanation in ufo investigations. As an aside... this scared off David Spoor... UFO faker... good riddance! Andy Roberts... in a blood stained T-shirt with all the carcass of the BUFORA falsehood... exposed the myth of the Berywn Bala UFO Crash. Tim Matthews presented UFO/Dr Meithe/Braun UFO technology?? Dr. David Clarke presented the true facts pertaining to the Sheffield UFO incident and truly exposed the claims by Max Burns to be of Larkinesque credibility! The UFION launch had the right edicts yet this team was too silent and therefore it seemed ineffective with the experienced team of resaearchers. And the unfortunate state of this ufological upheaval may have created a self acclaimed elite tier of UFO researchers and the reactive/unfortunate launch of the never ever got off the ground and ufological farce of NUFORA. UFO conferences can be and are/were fantastic... maybe we don't have enough people left in UK UFology to debate with or share? Thanks for the memories. Let's have more BUFOSC/UFOIN/Andy Ellis/ YUFOINFO/LAPIS/SUFOG/QUEST/MAPIT/MARA... Matthews /Morris conferences and get the UFOIN team back on the speaker circuit! Chris Parr UK
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 11 B.C. Man Spots Object In Nevada From: Brian Vike - HBCCUFO <hbccufo@telus.net> Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2003 17:49:23 -0700 Fwd Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 10:01:02 -0400 Subject: B.C. Man Spots Object In Nevada Nevada, United States Date: Winter 1964 Time: Approx: 5:00 p.m. (sunset) Telephone conversation with witness. (HBCC UFO) This report below came to me from Sue Darroch, Director of ParaResearchers - Ontario. http://www.pararesearchers.org/ You can make your Ontario sighting report to ParaResearchers using their on-line report form. I telephoned a gentleman who resides in Penticton, British Columbia to do a phone interview to gather information on a sighting he had back in 1964 while driving south through Nevada, United States in the winter time.While he was traveling in between the towns of Beatty and Tonopah this is when he observed out of the corner of his eye, a spoke shaped object coming up from behind him, off to his left and flying at a very low attitude. As the witness said, he did not have to look way up to see it, but just over to his left and tilted his head slightly up to see the object. A few more details as to how the sighting came about. The witnesses mother had drove down to Tonopah, United States from Trail, British Columbia with friends to visit their married daughter who was living in Tonopah, as her husband was stationed at an airbase there. The witness who had the sighting left British Columbia to pick up his mother in Tonopah after she had her visit with friends to bring her back home. As he left Death Valley traveling to Tonopah by himself he saw something to his left out of the corner of his eye. (HBCC UFO Note: At this point at the sighting it was around 5:00 p.m. and it was just at sunset). The witness said he was shocked to see a wheel shaped object traveling quickly low in the sky, not making a sound and had a dull silver color to it. The witness said the best description I can give me today was that it looked just as if someone was looking at a wheel chair with the big spokes inside the wheel. He also said it was revolving just like a Farris Wheel would do in a clock wise rotation. He again stressed to me that he did not have to look way up in the sky to see it, but rather look to his left and up slightly as mentioned above. He also told me it was very spooky to see such a sight as it flew by him, he then pulled over to the side of the road to really have a good look at it, and he also grabbed his 8mm camera in hopes of trying to catch a picture of it. As the object passed him he noted that it left a large spiral jet trail behind it. Due to his amazement of the whole event, and due to the speed the object was traveling at, he missed talking some footage of the craft, but did catch the jet trail it did leave behind. (HBCC UFO Note: Photos are posted at my website under United States Sighting Reports). The fellow said the photos are not top notch, but at least it was a record of the event. The witness was heading towards the north, so the object was also heading north and then off to the west. He also stated that the object was as big as your average sized Ferris wheel for sure. He said the whole event may have lasted for about 20 seconds, but was not really sure to the actual amount of time when he first caught sight of it. After speaking with the witness for sometime I did find him to be a very credible witness. I also thanked him very much for telling me the story and sending along the photos. The two photos of the jet trail were taken off 8mm and place to VHS format. Ran on television and then a friend of the witness snapped two shots with his digital camera off the T.V. Again my thanks to Sue Darroch, Director of ParaResearchers Ontario for sending me the information. Brian Vike, Director HBCC UFO Research Canadian Toll Free UFO Hotline 1 866 262 1989 - Free call. Editor: Canadian Communicator - Paranormal Magazine email: hbccufo@telus.net Website: http://www3.telus.net/public/wilbur8/hbcc_ufo_research.htm
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 11 Re: Two New Items At Magonia - 08-06-03 - Clark From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net> Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2003 22:39:10 -0500 Fwd Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 10:04:26 -0400 Subject: Re: Two New Items At Magonia - 08-06-03 - Clark >From: John Harney <magonia@harneyj.freeserve.co.uk> >To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2003 19:21:42 +0100 >Subject: Re: Two New Items At Magonia - 08-06-03 >>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net> >>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >>Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2003 11:35:38 -0500 >>Subject: Re: Two New Items At Magonia - 08-06-03 >>>From: Wendy Connors <FadedDiscs@comcast.net> >>>To: UFO Updates" <ufoudates@virtuallystrange.net> >>>Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2003 07:36:32 -0600 >>>Subject: Re: Two New Items At Magonia - 08-06-03 >>John Rimmer is not The Pelican, whose real identity is readily >>identifiable from the dreary prose style and weird fetishistic >>obsessions, one of which is the undersigned. >Really! Yup, really. >>He's incapable of >>writing anything on despised ufology without bringing up my >>name. Actually, in point of fact, no issue of Magonia itself >>would be an issue of Magonia without the absolutely predictable >>mention of the Great Satan hisself, aka Jerome Clark. >Phew! I know, I know. If the Great Satan didn't exist, you'd have to invent the Satanic Majesty of Southwestern Minnesota. Don't take yourself so seriously, John. The rest of us don't - by which I mean no cheap insult against your good self, but just a general observation that all of us, including the undersigned, including you, including all who are reading these words, fall an inch or two short of infallible wisdom. This won't be sorted out till we're all long - and maybe long, long - gone, and fortunately we won't be around to face up to how embarrassingly little we all knew. Cordially, Jerry Clark
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 11 Barrhead, Alberta Sightings - 1960 From: Brian Vike HBCCUFO <hbccufo@telus.net> Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2003 23:06:00 -0700 Fwd Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 10:12:43 -0400 Subject: Barrhead, Alberta Sightings - 1960 Barrhead, Alberta Date: 1960 (late fall) Time: Approx: 9:30 p.m. I talked on the telephone with a really nice lady who now is living in southern British Columbia. Her and her husband are originally from Barrhead, Alberta a town some 70 miles northwest from Edmonton. One night on their farm while out doing their chores, milking the cows, etc. in the late fall. Their hay field was directly west of the barn and when their son at the time was 7 years old and was standing looking into the field, he said. Daddy, there is a stop light sitting in the grain field. As they turned to look they all saw a softball sized, brilliant red light/object sitting just over the tops of the grain. As they watched the object moved slowly and along the way it changed it's color to white and then finally green. The witness told me they had to have watched this event for approx: 20 minutes as the children had time to run back to the house and call the grandparents to come outside and watch what was taking place. The light/object kept up a steady pace over the fields. The family now watching the object through binoculars until they all lost sight of it in the far distance. It at times changing direction as it moved along. Thank you to the witness for the report. Barrhead, Alberta Date: 1960 (Summer) Time: 11:00 p.m. The same lady who reported the sighting above gave me another report. There was a dance which took place at the Barrhead town hall one evening. Many folks were in attendance. All of a sudden the lights burned out and everyone stood watching five objects hovering over a power sub station. She also said that many pictures were taken of the objects sitting in the sky, and most likely some of the photos could be found if someone was to go looking, or asking area residents who lived there at the time. Thank you to the lady for the report. Brian Vike, Director HBCC UFO Research Canadian Toll Free UFO Hotline 1 866 262 1989 - Free call. Editor: Canadian Communicator - Paranormal Magazine email: hbccufo@telus.net Website: http://www3.telus.net/public/wilbur8/hbcc_ufo_research.htm
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 11 Crabwood Farm From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net> Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2003 00:36:54 -0700 Fwd Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 10:15:52 -0400 Subject: Crabwood Farm Hello All: I did a Google Search for Crabwood Farm and found this informative (if speculative) page about the Whitley Wheat ASCII Circle formation. It turns out to be at Crabwood Farm, near Winchester, England. (Thanks to Ed, Mike and others who wrote offlist and provided the Crabwood name.) http://www.cropcircleresearch.com/articles/alienface.html If we are to believe one Lucy Pringle, she hopped into her aeroplane, flew over the farm and took the celebrated photo. The news media have completely ignored this as far as I can tell. I'm a news junkie, and never heard of it until Eleanor brought the matter up. Image is shown on the link above, so is the translation of the spiraled Alien ASCII message to mankind. If this is/was an actual artifact in farm field, then somebody went to an awful lot of work. The writer of the article expresses certain reservations about the alien origin of the crop artwork, and suggests a possible tie-in with some then upcoming movie release. Best wishes - Larry Hatch
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 11 Re: UFOIN? - Hale From: Roy Hale - The Lost Haven <roy@thelosthaven.co.uk> Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2003 22:55:05 +0100 Fwd Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 10:21:12 -0400 Subject: Re: UFOIN? - Hale >From: Roy Hale - The Lost Haven <roy@thelosthaven.co.uk> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2003 03:15:18 +0100 >Subject: UFOIN? >Hi All, >I was going through a few UFO sites, when the UFOIN link >appeared, I tried the following link: >http://www.ufoin.org.uk/ >and it tells me it is a dead link? >Has this site finished, or has UFOIN folded? Only I read a >statement by Jenny Randles at: >http://www.ic0440500.ic24.net/ufoin.html >which seemed full of new passion and readiness to solve the UFO >mystery? >Any help would be greeted warmly. Hi All, No need to worry about my UFOIN question above, I just received a very polite and to the point answer from Andy Roberts of UFOIN, who tells me it is still going, but it is no concern of mine, and is operated as a private e-mail list. Strange, as I thought that UFOIN was a new face of British Ufology? Why all the discreet private e-mail lists? Where can I and others read any investigation data on the cases they have solved, and are investigating? How does one become subscribed to the private UFOIN e-mail list? Is it indeed advertised anywhere, on any site, or is it by word of mouth? And is it by selection criteria, and who are now the main members of UFOIN? After such a huge public statement by UFOIN over a year ago: http://www.ic0440500.ic24.net/ufoin.html was this ever recently mentioned on UpDates as a now private list? If UFOIN are now private, who are the UFO investigation results for, and are they accessible to other interested parties? Or should I just not ask such questions, as it seems Andy is quite adamant on not providing any answers? Regards, Roy
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 12 Italian UFO Newsflash No. 402 From: Edoardo Russo <e.russo@cisu.org> Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 14:42:52 +0200 Fwd Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 11:10:57 -0400 Subject: Italian UFO Newsflash No. 402 ITALIAN UFO NEWSFLASH ISSUE NO. 402 - 31 JULY 2003 by the Italian Center for UFO Studies (Centro Italiano Studi Ufologici, CISU) - An Alien Base At Aviano? - A Book On Abduction & Near-Death Experiences - The New Issue of CISU Journal AN ALIEN BASE AT AVIANO? Sparking the interest (and not a little incredulity) in the Italian mass media as well as the entire ufological world, is the announcement by ufologist Antonio Chiumiento, according to which an underground alien base is purported to be located in the region of Aviano (Pordenone). Such a conclusion was reportedly reached in the wake of a six- year study of the experiences of a young factory worker supposedly abducted several times, taken inside such a base and even into outer space, where he said to have even taken a number of photographs (including of the aliens themselves), as he became a sort of "spokesperson" for the extraterrestrials, in a post-modern replay of the more classic "contactism" of the 1950's. On this complex case, Chiumiento has written a book due to be published within the year, in which he will reveal the results of the investigations and analyses undertaken by him and his collaborators. [Interviews in the following dailies: Il Giorno, Resto del Carlino, La Nazione, 13 July; press release in ANSA, 12 July; numerous Italian dailies, 13 to 16 July; UFO-Italia, 13 to 23 July; collaboration by Renzo Cabassi, Antonio Chiumiento, Antonio Cuccu and Gildo Persone'] A BOOK ON ABDUCTIONS & NEAR-DEATH EXPERIENCES In Italian bookstores is a new volume of particular interest to those who are interested in "alien abductions." It is the Italian translation of the volume "Project Omega", subtitled "From Near-Death Experiences to Alien Abductions", and written by the American psychologist Kenneth Ring, one of the top experts on near-death experiences. The author formulates a parallel between these phenomena of borderline psychology and cases of abduction. The book, published originally in 1992, is now being offered in our country by Edizioni Mediterranee (263 pages, 14.90 Euro). [Reports by Paolo Fiorino and Maurizio Morini] THE NEW ISSUE OF CISU JOURNAL Issue No. 26 of the periodical "UFO - Rivista di informazione ufologica" (UFO - Journal of UFO Information), published by the Italian Center for UFO Studies, has hit the streets. In the headlines of this issue: UFOs over Washington: 50 Years Later (Stilo); Hessdalen 2003: A Review of the Current Situation (Cabassi); Project Sassalbo (Ridolfi); the second part of the special report on John Keel (Grassino, Bennet and Russo); The Wave of 1952 (Stilo); Ufologists, Science & Ball Lightning (Toselli); and also regular columns of news, CISU info & activities, the Italian cases, investigations and debates. The magazine has already been sent out to all subscribers and to CISU members. [Report by Gian Paolo Grassino; UFO-Italia, 31 July] Collaborators on this edition were: Renzo Cabassi, Antonio Chiumiento, Antonio Cuccu, Paolo Fiorino, Gian Paolo Grassino, Maurizio Morini and Antonio Rampulla. - - - This is the English translation of UFOTEL, a free phone/Internet information service on UFOs edited weekly by Edoardo Russo for the Italian Center for UFO Studies (Centro Italiano Studi Ufologici), available in Italian by calling +39-011-545294, or by e-mail subscription, or on CISU website at http://www.arpnet.it/ufo/ultime.htm UFOTEL is a supplement to "UFO - Rivista di informazione ufologica", published by the Italian Center for UFO Studies, registered at Tribunale di Torino, No. 3670, on 19 June 1986. Director: Giovanni Settimo. Publisher: Cooperativa UPIAR, Corso Vittorio Emanuele 108, 10121 Turin, Italy Translated from Italian to English by: Gary J. Presto, Freelance Italian>English Translator & Proofreader 44 Bickford Ave., Apt. 2 Revere, MA 02151 USA Tel.: ++1.781.485.1683 FAX: ++1.781.485.1684 E-mail: gpresto@comcast.net Webpage: http://www.proz.com/translator/723 - - - (c) 2003 by: CISU, Corso Vittorio Emanuele 108, 10121 Torino, Italia This newsletter (as a whole or in part) may be freely copied, photocopied, reproduced, stored, distributed and retrieved, at the only condition that Centro Italiano Studi Ufologici is reported as the source. You may get it directly via e-mail by subscribing (just send a blank message to: cisuflash-subscribe@yahoogroups.com) The CISU is a no-profit association whose aims are: - to promote the scientific study of UFO phenomena in Italy; - to help circulate information about UFO phenomena and studies; - to coordinate national activities of data collecting and studying. You may reach Centro Italiano Studi Ufologici: - by mail: CISU, Corso Vittorio Emanuele 108, 10121 Torino, Italia - by phone: +39 (011) 30.78.63 (24 hours UFO Hotline) - by fax: +39 (011) 54.50.33 - by Internet e-mail: cisu@ufo.it - at the World Wide Web URL: http://www.cisu.org
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 19 UFOs Blamed For Outage In 1965 From: Eustaquio Anddrea Patounas <socex@terra.com.br> Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 17:41:25 -0300 Fwd Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 23:54:51 -0400 Subject: UFOs Blamed For Outage In 1965 Source: Halifax Daily News, Canada http://www.nationalpost.com/home/story.html?id=728B9A46-EE55-4BBE-AB8B-945F29B31 D58 Siri Agrell National Post Monday, August 18, 2003 As government officials and industry experts in Canada and the United States attempt to pinpoint the cause of Thursday's massive power blackout, there is one possibility that has escaped investigation: a close encounter of the third kind. In the days following North America's last major blackout, on Nov. 9, 1965, reports of UFO sightings down the Eastern seaboard convinced some people that visitors from outer space had flicked an interglactic off-switch. The blackout 38 years ago was similar to last week's outage in many ways. The "Great Northeast Blackout" of 1965 began at 5:16 p.m., near the end of a normal workday. The power grid broke up four seconds after the initial disturbance. New York, Ontario, most of New England and parts of New Jersey and Pennsylvania went black within five minutes, leaving 30 million people without electricity for as long as 13 hours. In his 1979 book, UFO Canada, Yurko Bondarchuk writes some believers went so far as to accuse then-prime minister Lester B. Pearson for covering up alien involvement in the 1965 blackout. "To shift attention from the UFO explanation, the 'broken relay' story was invented," Mr. Bondarchuk quotes U.S. ufologist Donald Keyhoe as saying. "Since this could be construed as blaming Canada, the prime minister must have been convinced it was best for both countries not to disclose the true situation." The author explained that UFOs can "create sudden power surges in transmission lines as the craft flies overhead." In theory, he wrote, "these power surges could produce blackouts of massive proportions." The blackout of 1965 was traced to a plant near Niagara Falls, although Mr. Bondarchuk maintained there was evidence UFOs can cause power failures, although he said it "may only be a side effect." sagrell@nationalpost.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 19 Bigfoot Calling? From: Colm Kelleher <nids@anv.net> Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 15:08:00 -0700 Fwd Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 23:56:32 -0400 Subject: Bigfoot Calling? Preliminary Acoustic Analysis of Unusual Large Animal Vocalizations Recorded on April 20, 2003 in Snohomish County, Washington. National Institute for Discovery Science 4975 S. Polaris Ave Las Vegas NV 89118 702-798-1700 nids@anv.net http://www.nidsci.org Summary At 1.00AM on the morning of April 20th 2003, long time Bigfoot researchers John Andrews, Richard Grover and Nancy Smith were positioned in a remote location near Stevens Pass in the central Cascades in Washington State. The location was chosen because of a long history of anecdotal reports of Bigfoot in the area, including multiple footprints measuring 20 inches in length, reports of repeated rock knocking and unusual howling and other vocalizations. Sustained vocalizations from an unknown animal began just after 1.00AM. The team recorded several of these sounds using a Sony D-6 recorder with a parabolic reflector for magnification. The cassette recording was submitted to NIDS. NIDS contracted the UNLV Auditory Perception Laboratory to analyze the vocalizations. Digitization and editing of vocalizations were accomplished using Syntrillium's Cool Edit Pro software. Monaural output from the cassette was digitized at 44.1 kHz (16-bit) sample rate. Any silence preceding or following each vocalization was excised. Similarly all spurious noises that exceeded the maximum amplitude of the given vocalization were excised at zero (voltage) crossing points. The conclusions of the acoustic analysis are that a human male cannot be ruled out as the source of the vocalizations. According to the report: "However, there are a few unusual aspects of the vocalizations that clearly warrant further investigation. First, the majority of sustained productions are at or near vowel category boundaries, which is very unusual. If these productions were produced by a human male, then an explanation would need to be sought for why the set of vocalizations consistently represent outliers. For example, it is possible for a human to intentionally produce such outliers. It also is possible that such outliers could reflect a limitation in early speech development, such as exceeding a critical period by being raised in isolation. Outliers also could reflect a physiological limitation, such as an anomalous or damaged vocal tract. A second finding that warrants investigation is that many of the vocalizations reflect formants with low center frequencies, suggesting that they may have been produced by a large body. While it is acknowledged that this suggestion at least in part reflects measurement limitations due to reliance on compact spectra with a minimal number of discernable formants, the currently observed pattern of formant dispersion is not conclusively human". Two separate downloadable sound files are provided in this NIDS report. The two acoustic files, labeled "410-418" and "653-702" were recorded from further away according to the researchers. The acoustic file labeled "653-702" provided much of the basis for the formant analysis in the UNLV report. In addition to contracting for the acoustic analysis, NIDS also contacted the Washington State department of wildlife and secured their database comprising an inventory of the 558 species of known wildlife in Washington. Finally, because one of the sound files appeared to bear a resemblance to primate vocalizations (see UNLV report), NIDS contacted two nearby primate facilities to ascertain whether any primates had recently escaped from captivity. NIDS was informed by officials at Woodland Park Zoo in Seattle that primates had in fact escaped from the facility several years ago, but all had been subsequently recaptured. Secondly, two primate researchers from the primate research facility of Central Washington University at Ellensburg informed NIDS that all primates (including Washoe) are presently accounted for and none have ever escaped. The full NIDS report contains: (i) this report summary, (ii) the full narrative from John Andrews, Rick Grover and Nancy Smith relating the events and circumstances around recording the vocalizations, (iii) two acoustic files containing representative samples from the vocalizations that can be freely downloaded and listened to. All sound files are copyrighted to John Andrews (iv) the full report on analysis of these vocalizations from the acoustic lab, and (v) the Washington state wildlife database. The purpose of this NIDS report is to invite interested wildlife researchers to download the sound files and compare them with known wild life vocalizations, especially those found in the Washington State wildlife inventory. The NIDS report can be found in the "What's New" section of the NIDS web site at http://www.nidsci.org. Feedback can be sent to NIDS by email at nids@anv.net or by telephone 702-798-1700 or fax at 702-798- 1970.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 20 Re: Crabwood Farm - Stuart From: Chaz Stuart <Daydisk2@webtv.net> Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 23:47:49 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 07:43:27 -0400 Subject: Re: Crabwood Farm - Stuart >From: Colin Stevenson <colin@c2k2.fsworld.co.uk> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 15:41:39 +0100 >Subject: Re: Crabwood Farm >>From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net> >>To: Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2003 00:36:54 -0700 >>Subject: Crabwood Farm <snip> >Hi Larry and list >Correct me if I am wrong but there is a Military >base within a quarter mile of this crop circle >and this is why many dismiss it as a fake. It >isn't the first time the Military have got up to >some 'odd' tricks believe me having been on >the receiving end of some of them >Kind regards, >col ( UK ) >http://www.colsweb.com Hi List, I'd not heard about a military base being within 1/4 mile of the formation, but if so, so what? I seriously doubt that the military would take the time and tremendous effort to create such a masterpiece ( and yes, Larry, it _was_ real! ) by stomping down acres of crop on _private_ property. Imagine if they were caught! Some heads would surely roll. Besides, the decoded message was not funny and did not advertise anything, so what would be the point? --Chaz PS: The formation _was_ near some power lines, FWTW. PPS: There was no "up-coming movie release."
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 20 Re: List Back Up - Velez From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 01:21:40 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 07:45:25 -0400 Subject: Re: List Back Up - Velez >From: Terry Groff <terry@terrygroff.com> >To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 07:58:42 -0500 >Subject: Re: List Back Up >>Gentle Subscriber, >>Back in Toronto, rested, facing a sizeable back-log of List-mail >>and with the trusty UpDates PCs still running. ><snip> >>John Velez, in New York, with his machine switched off, had the >>motherboard and processor fried on his Mac G4 when power was >>restored to his neighbourhood. The damage has left him machine- >>less. It affects not only his ability to communicate via the >>List, but more seriously, his income. As you may be aware, John >>is a fine graphic artist and web designer and yesterday had to >>pass on a job that would have bought him replacements for his >>damaged hardware. If anyone can help John out, let me know and >>I'll pass it on to him. BTW, John does not yet know I'm passing >>this information on. >>I'm going to back-fill the archive starting this morning - mail >>should start flowing, shortly. >Welcome back Errol, >That's a shame about John. Perhaps UpDates could set up a PayPal >account to accept donations on his behalf. I can contribute a >little bit since Ray Stanford made a donation to UFO Tools. >Terry To Terry, EBK and others who so kindly and generously offered assistance to me in my hour of need, I would like to express my deepest gratitude. Although, as you can plainly see, it is no longer necessary. ;) My daughter came to my rescue by contacting a long-time friend of hers, who happens to be a Macintosh computer technician! Just what the doctor ordered. This young man showed up my house bright and early with his tools and all the parts I needed to get my confuser back up and running. Fortunately, my hard-drives were unharmed by the electrical surge and all of my data and applications (that I need to earn a living) was still intact. I really dodged a major bullet there! Anyone who has experienced a computer crash or burn-out that causes total data loss knows what a living Hell that can be. Been dere done dat! My daughters' friend not only brought me the parts, he installed them and made sure everything was working properly before running off to work a full day on his own job. What can you say about people like him, and the others who offered to help. All I can do is offer up a sincere and heart-felt thank you to all. I'm back baby! "I get by with a little help from my friends." John Velez
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 20 Re: B.C. Man Spots Object In Nevada - Hatch From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net> Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 23:20:35 -0700 Fwd Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 07:47:24 -0400 Subject: Re: B.C. Man Spots Object In Nevada - Hatch >From: Brian Vike - HBCCUFO <hbccufo@telus.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2003 17:49:23 -0700 >Subject: B.C. Man Spots Object In Nevada >Nevada, United States >Date: Winter 1964 >Time: Approx: 5:00 p.m. (sunset) >Telephone conversation with witness. (HBCC UFO) >This report below came to me from Sue Darroch, Director of >ParaResearchers - Ontario. http://www.pararesearchers.org/ >You can make your Ontario sighting report to ParaResearchers >using their on-line report form. >I telephoned a gentleman who resides in Penticton, British >Columbia to do a phone interview to gather information on a >sighting he had back in 1964 while driving south through Nevada, >United States in the winter time.While he was traveling in >between the towns of Beatty and Tonopah this is when he observed >out of the corner of his eye, a spoke shaped object coming up >from behind him, off to his left and flying at a very low >attitude. As the witness said, he did not have to look way up to >see it, but just over to his left and tilted his head slightly >up to see the object. <snip> Just what shape does a "spoke shaped object" have? Does it look anything like an Italian coffee pot by any chance? Just curious. - Larry Hatch
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 20 Re: Crabwood Farm - Hatch From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net> Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 00:16:12 -0700 Fwd Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 07:51:42 -0400 Subject: Re: Crabwood Farm - Hatch >From: Colin Stevenson <colin@c2k2.fsworld.co.uk> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 15:41:39 +0100 >Subject: Re: Crabwood Farm >>From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net> >>To: Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2003 00:36:54 -0700 >>Subject: Crabwood Farm >>Hello All: >>I did a Google Search for Crabwood Farm and found this >>informative (if speculative) page about the Whitley Wheat ASCII >>Circle formation. It turns out to be at Crabwood Farm, near >>Winchester, England. > >>(Thanks to Ed, Mike and others who wrote offlist and >>provided the Crabwood name.) > >>http://www.cropcircleresearch.com/articles/alienface.html <snip> >>Image is shown on the link above, so is the translation of the >>spiraled Alien ASCII message to mankind. >>If this is/was an actual artifact in farm field, then somebody >>went to an awful lot of work. The writer of the article >>expresses certain reservations about the alien origin of the >>crop artwork, and suggests a possible tie-in with some then >>upcoming movie release. >Correct me if I am wrong but there is a Military base within a >quarter mile of this crop circle and this is why many dismiss it >as a fake. It isn't the first time the Military have got up to >some 'odd' tricks believe me having been on the receiving end of >some of them Hello Col: I'm in no position to say about the Military base, but it would be no surprise. I stumbled right into one, and nearly got into some trouble once, when I got off the wrong train stop in England. They are sort of hidden in plain sight I suppose. In the USA they tend to be in swamps, deserts, way out on the prairies or whatever .. wherever the population is small. There may be some connection, again I'm in no position to judge. All I can see is that somebody went to a major, major effort to put up such an artwork; or else it was crafted on the screen of a computer. Numerous eye-witnesses have seen the formation, unless we are to disregard their accounts on many web pages. Best - Larry
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 20 Re: UK Parliamentary Discussion Of UFOs - Koi From: Isaac Koi <isaackoi2@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 10:41:46 +0100 Fwd Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 07:58:25 -0400 Subject: Re: UK Parliamentary Discussion Of UFOs - Koi >From: Gary Anthony <mithrand@mithrand.karoo.co.uk> >To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2003 16:26:58 +0100 >Subject: Re: UK Parliamentary Discussion Of UFOs >>From: Isaac Koi <isaackoi2@yahoo.co.uk> >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2003 23:49:30 +0100 >>Subject: UK Parliamentary Discussion Of UFOs <snip> Hi Gary, List >1. There is quite a bit missing from your list, despite the >obvious hard work that you've put in. I was sure that would turn out to be the case with the preliminary draft of the list of extracts. As I noted in the introduction to the methodology section of the Hansard Working Document (i.e. the third of the documents) the preliminary draft should be regarded as ephemeral. It is not intended to be a definitive document. (Indeed, it is intended that this note should be revised in the near future. It is clear from a mere reading of the Hansard extracts thus far located that there are more extracts to be found). The purposes of circulating the preliminary draft at this stage were (a) to make it easier for those interested to identify relevant material and (b) to seek further input on both sections of this working document. Hopefully, the preliminary drafts will nonetheless advance research and/or collate material to avoid potential researchers reinventing the wheel in the future. The main objective I had in mind was actually just to illustrate, and test, the Working Documents approach detailed in my introductory documents. >2. Dr. David Clarke has culled _every_ PQ and answer and many >other related materials and correspondence. (I note that your >list includes a lot from D. Clarke's latest book) Perhaps you >should team up together and make your resource as comprehensive >as possible; because such a resource would indeed serve the >UFOlogical community and anyone else interested in the U.K. >Government and politics involvement in the UFO topic. Thanks for the tip. In fact, David Clarke has been kind enough to make contact with me off-list already. He mentioned that his very detailed Hansard list contains quite a few items not included in mine (and vice versa). I've told David that I'd be happy for him to take the preliminary draft of my document as a starting point and circulate a fuller document in his own name. He has generously offered to provide me with copies of material that I failed to include in my list. In my original email, I mentioned 4 or so issues to exemplify the type of freedom of information and policy issues that interest me which I said appeared to be less well known than the example of the Flying Saucer Working Party Report "judging simply from the fact that I do not recall them being mentioned in any book, article or email that I have read". As a result, Dave Clarke has helpfully provided me with the following references to various pages of his book with Andy Roberts ("Out of the Shadows", Piatkus 2002): (a) In relation to the request for 3 researchers for access to MoD UFO files in 1975 - page 248. (I note in passing that the relevant page refers to a request from "scientists from the Royal Holloway College at the University of London" - a minor point, but in fact the request was from 3 scientists at 3 different universities, only one of whom (the least well known) was at Royal Holloway College. I mention this point only because, as noted in para 6(b) of my first document, one of the MOD memoranda written in relation to the request noted that the scientists were from different universities and suggested that the request should be turned down since the 3 scientists appeared to be a group of academics drawn together by an interest in UFOs and that the request from this group therefore could not be described as request from "a major scientific organisation of high standing".) Dave tells me that he obtained an edited copy of the file direct from MoD two years before it was released at the PRO in which personal details, including the names of the scientists, were deleted under the Data Protection Act. (b) In relation to the 1967 correspondence between DI 55 and S4 (Air), this is in fact covered extensively in Chapter 9 of 'Out of the Shadows', pp 173-182. The chapter draws upon the contents of both the UFO Policy files and information provided by retired civil servants who helped to draft the documents at the PRO. In the light of the work that Dave Clarke and Andy Roberts have done, I'm sure you can understand why I am tempted to simply gratefully accept any material Dave Clarke is prepared to provide. However, I have thought it right to mention a few potential issues to him in advance of them actually arising. I would like to mention those potential issues on this list as they would be of general application to anyone else that is prepared to provide material to me but does not want that material to become freely available (and in the hope that other researchers have encountered such problems and found workable solutions to them). I appreciate the concerns expressed by several researchers that material obtained as a result of great deal of work would be open to plagiarism, and re-use without acknowledgement, if made freely available. As you will have gathered from my introductory documents, in the interests of reducing the amount of reinvention of the wheel (and uninformed debate) that occurs in this field I am keen to circulate revised drafts of the working documents after incorporating comments from others and further material I find myself. Taking the Hansard working document as an example, how would this process work if I accepted further Hansard extracts from someone like Dave Clarke knowing that he did not wish to post that material directly on an open list? Having discussed this matter with Dave he feels the way forward is to ensure that those who contribute material to the Working Document are properly credited for any contributions they may make. (I obviously intended to give such credit for any contributions in further drafts of the Working Document, as I hope was indicated by the cross references provided in the preliminary draft of the Hansard Working Document). At the moment, I'm minded to see how much material people are prepared to provide openly on UFO Updates in response to my post. However, whilst I've received a few encouraging responses and queries off-list, Dave Clarke's offer to provide material is the only one so far... The Hansard Working Document is a basic first step, circulated to thrash out some of these issues. Some of the other (more ambitious) working documents, such as the proposed revision of the PRO's Source Sheet 40, would require more co-operation between various researchers. Regards, Isaac Koi
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 20 Chile: Chupacabras Attacks Quinchilca Sector From: Scott Corrales <lornis1@earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 06:29:23 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 08:00:36 -0400 Subject: Chile: Chupacabras Attacks Quinchilca Sector SOURCE: Diario Austral de Valdivia DATE: Tuesday, August 19, 2003 MYSTERIOUS BEAST SLAYS 50 HENS, 9 GEESE, 1 PIG Mysterious beast slays 50 hens, 9 geese, 1 pig A strange animal left a tril of blood and death at the Los Lagos commune of the Quinchilca sector. Fear gripped a humble peasant woman after she learned of the savage death of some fifty birds anda pig at the claws of a mysterious beast which few hesitated to identify as the Chupacabras. The hideous scene of bloodletting was discovered early in the morning by Edith Mora, owner of the Los Colihues smallhold, located some 4 km from Los Lagos, where she has lived for over 25 years. The strong winds and rain felt early Monday morning kept locals from discovering the sinister fact, which took the lives of 50 hens and nine geese through strange perforations on their necks, as well as the death of a large pig, who presented extensive and deep injuries on both sides and on its head. The violence of the attack was made manifest by the numerous scratches on the stable doors, one of which was completely destroyed, as well as the numerous prints resembling those of a puma and which were evident all over the henhouse. Oddly enought, the three watchdogs on the premises never noticed the strange animal's presence and it is assumed that they did not hesitate to hide in order to avoid the same fate as the other victims. Remains of animal blood, flesh and feathers were evident everywhere, mute testimony of the violent assault, which probably took only a few minutes. "All of my birds were dead and scattered, and the henhouse door was shredded to ribbons. I was sad to see my little animals dead," said the sorrowful woman, who is even contemplating the sale of the property and moving far away. "Some say it was a lion, although others do not dismiss the fact that it could have been the chupacabras. Whatever it is, my birds are dead and there's nothing to be done." This is the second time that Edith Mora has lost her birds in a strange and cruel event. In 2002, a mysterious beast also killed all the poultry and wounded her dogs, which miraculously saved their lives. =========================================== Translation (C) 2003 Scott Corrales Institute of Hispanic Ufology (IHU) Special thanks to Liliana Nunez O.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 20 Chile: Chupacabras Attacks Las Cruces From: Scott Corrales <lornis1@earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 07:03:19 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 08:09:10 -0400 Subject: Chile: Chupacabras Attacks Las Cruces SOURCE: Diario "El Lider de San Antonio" DATE: August 19, 2003 CHUPACABRAS ATTACK REPORTED The animals presented perforations near the neck and extensive featherless areas. "Damn you, Chupacabras, you killed all of my hens," were the resigned and angry words of Ana Luisa Morales Inostroza, when she discovered at 7 a.m. yesterday, as is her custom, the macabre spectacle as she went to feed her farm animals. Seven chickens in one of her two henhouses were dead, scattered all over the dirt floor. Another small bird was agonizing. Pale and almost dry, the dead birds had lost most of their plumage and presented two-centimeter puncutre marks on their necks. The dry flesh and the animal's interior could be seen through the puncture, as though a strange object had been introduced into the dead poultry's bodies to draw their blood. Estos eran los =FAnicos rastros del autor del ins=F3lito ataque al gallinero ubicado en la tranquila calle Los Casta=F1os (en Las Cruces), salvo un orificio en la malla de pl=E1stico que cubr=EDa el techo del gallinero. El forado tiene unos 20 cent=EDmetros de ancho por diez de largo, lugar por donde entr=F3 quien priv=F3 de la vida a las aves. The affected party reported the event to the Carabineros (state police) barracks at Las Cruces, noting that the "Chupacabras" was responsible. Two dogs guard the home of Ana Luisa Morales and on an adjacent property, two mastiffs reinforce the sector's safety. "The dogs have never attacked the birds and when cats do it, they shred the chickens and the hens alike. But my chickens are whole but for the feathers and the hole in their bodies. These birds have no blood, you can see it by how pale they are. There's no doubt that it is the Chupacabras, whom they say was in Santiago but has appeared in Las Cruces," mourned the woman, who claimed not having heard noises nor the presence of strangers on the property, something that is made even harder by the presence of the watchdogs. "I believe it is the Chupacabras who came in at 4 in the morning, because at that time everything's asleep, even the animals." The news spread like wildfire in the community and numerous residents visited Ana Luisa Morales to show solidarity and while they were added, to take a look at the deceased poultry. The economic losses were considerable, as well as the effort taken to raise the poultry. Right next to the affected henhouse tehre is another, but it has a metal structure on its roof, which kept the attacker from continuing with its fatal assault of the remaining birds, hens in this case. =46rom now on, Ana Luis Morales must redouble her efforts to protect her remaining birds and scare off the mysterious Chupacabras that prowls Las Cruces, according to the locals. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Translation (C) 2002 Scott Corrales Institute of Hispanic Ufology Special thanks to Gloria Coluchi
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 20 Chile: Chupacabras Attacks in Lota From: Scott Corrales <lornis1@earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 07:18:48 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 08:11:00 -0400 Subject: Chile: Chupacabras Attacks in Lota SOURCE: CRONICA DATE: Monday, August 18, 2003 CHUPACABRAS BARES ITS FANGS YET AGAIN ***Strange prints, dead birds and weird creature seen in Lota*** by Enrique Pe=F1a There was a blackout that night. It was a Wednesday and the labor union had called for a national workers' strike. The protests were violent in Lota, but all was calm at Poblacion Idahue. Suddenly there was a noise: it was around midnight and someone was prowling around the house of Samuel Bustos. This announcer for Radio El Carb=F3n looked out his rear door. His 10 year old son shined a flashlight. They took some steps and the boy focused the beam on a white duck, which was frightened by his presence. Bustos' wife Alicia raised six of these animals. "Maluco", the neighbors' dog, was excited and barked ceaslessly; Samuel and his son went into the house and fell asleep. But at 3 in the morning there was another commotion: there was no doubt that a prowler lurked outside in the backyard. Curiously, the ducks did not make any noise. "At around 11 in the morning I went out to feed them and I found them dead, " recalls little Samuel Antonio. The boy saw three of them. Another two were in a hard-to-reach corner. A third was agonizing in the bushes along the Idahue creek, which crosses the backyard of Samuel Bustos' house. "They had two small perforations marked on their throats. I'm sure that this was not the work of a dog, much less that of a human," said Bustos. Prints resembling those of a dog were found in the mud, but it is clearly evident that these are larger. Samuel Bustos' neighbor approached him to say that early last Tuesday, they found four of her ducks dead. The birds showed the same wounds. Esteban Hidalgo, one of Samuel's neighbors, claims having seen from his window a black crature, one meter tall, crouching among the plants. Mystery increased when Jorge Bello, who lives in front of the Federico Schwager Stadium in Coronel, phoned Bustos to tell him that Friday afternoon he and his wife had seen an odd "bird" flying over the houses. It looked like a bat, but was much larger. No one claims it's the Chupacabras, but no one dismisses the possibility either. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Translation (C) 2003 Scott Corrales Institute of Hispanic Ufology (IHU) Special thanks to Gloria Coluchi
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 20 Re: Crabwood Farm - Stevenson From: Colin Stevenson <colin@c2k2.fsworld.co.uk> Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 13:00:03 +0100 Fwd Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 08:14:48 -0400 Subject: Re: Crabwood Farm - Stevenson >From: Chaz Stuart <Daydisk2@webtv.net> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 23:47:49 -0500 (EST) >Subject: CRe: Crabwood Farm >>From: Colin Stevenson <colin@c2k2.fsworld.co.uk> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >>Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 15:41:39 +0100 >>Subject: Re: Crabwood Farm >>>From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net> >>>To: Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>>Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2003 00:36:54 -0700 >>>Subject: Crabwood Farm ><snip> >>Hi Larry and list >>Correct me if I am wrong but there is a Military >>base within a quarter mile of this crop circle >>and this is why many dismiss it as a fake. It >>isn't the first time the Military have got up to >>some 'odd' tricks believe me having been on >>the receiving end of some of them >>Kind regards, >>col ( UK ) >Hi List, >I'd not heard about a military base being within 1/4 mile of the >formation, but if so, so what? I seriously doubt that the >military would take the time and tremendous effort to create >such a masterpiece ( and yes, Larry, it _was_ real! ) by >stomping down acres of crop on _private_ property. Imagine if >they were caught! Some heads would surely roll. Besides, the >decoded message was not funny and did not advertise anything, so >what would be the point? >--Chaz >PS: The formation _was_ near some power lines, FWTW. >PPS: There was no "up-coming movie release." Hi Chaz and listers There is more than one way to create a crop circle. Stomping down acres of crop is one way but it's one of the hardest ways possible. If the Military were involved then the point of the exercise would be for fun at crop circle fanatic's expense and also for the need to misdirect meaning for many new technology into UFO's or 'done by Alien's' thus maintaining secrecy. The de coding of the message also indicates it's origin if you apply it with the previous paragraph in mind. Was there not also a previous crop circle just across the road from a Military base which showed a gray? One would have thought that said Military would prevent such a thing whilst it was occurring bearing in mind there is a guard post at the roadside ! Not wanting to spoil the fun col http://www.colsweb.com
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 20 Apology To UFO UpDates List And John Velez From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 10:27:41 -0500 Fwd Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 12:24:24 -0400 Subject: Apology To UFO UpDates List And John Velez Hi Folks -- A little over a year ago I was ejected from your company for cause. My only defense is that if I had known _then_ what I know _now_ there would have been no cause, and I would not have been ejected. I erred, even as I thought I had justification and an equal conviction that I was doing the right thing. I was not. Specifically, John Velez, clearly, was _not_ the source of the turbulence and tribulation I had perceived him to be 13 months ago, and I am compelled, therefore, to extend this public apology to him now. Mr. Velez... I'm sorry. I was wrong, plain as the nose on my face, about _everything_ (with regard to last year) but my innocent sincerity I was doing the right thing... I did _not_ do the right thing as it turned out. My genuine apologies for _any_ upset I may have caused you. I live, and I learn, and so change accordingly. I can't (won't!) live any other way. Lehmberg@snowhill.com EXPLORE "AlienViewGroup" at its HostPros URL. http://www.alienview.net JOHN FORD RESTORATION FUND __ John will be released eventually. He'll need a tax free cash stake to get on his feet. Let's put one together for him; the bigger it is __ the more attention he gets. It could have been you. E_mail for detail. $350.00 pledged __ $200.00 collected! "I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see from afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, scourged by the scabrously specious scurrilous.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 20 Re: B.C. Man Spots Object In Nevada - Vike From: Brian Vike - HBCCUFO <hbccufo@telus.net> Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 08:26:31 -0700 Fwd Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 12:30:20 -0400 Subject: Re: B.C. Man Spots Object In Nevada - Vike >From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 23:20:35 -0700 >Subject: Re: B.C. Man Spots Object In Nevada >>From: Brian Vike - HBCCUFO <hbccufo@telus.net> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2003 17:49:23 -0700 >>Subject: B.C. Man Spots Object In Nevada ><snip> >Just what shape does a "spoke shaped object" have? >Does it look anything like an Italian coffee pot by >any chance? >Just curious. Good Day When I talked with the witness on the telephone, he described it as being just like a wheel chair's wheel, with the spokes. This was exactly what he told me the thing looked like. Take care Brian
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 20 Re: Unprecedented UFO Wave In British Columbia - From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22@fastmail.fm> Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 09:01:11 -0800 Fwd Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 16:01:46 -0400 Subject: Re: Unprecedented UFO Wave In British Columbia - >From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 10:49:04 -0300 >Subject: Unprecedented UFO Wave In British Columbia >I would like to direct the List's attention and possibly its >resources to what amounts to a UFO flap of major proportions >which has been going on in central British Columbia - Houstan, >Smithers, Telkwa, etc. - for some 16 months. >In the past several days alone, Brian Vike has received over a >dozen reports and is run off his feet trying to keep up. People >are reporting constantly to Brian of unusual clusters of lights, >FTs and shafts of ligt. One sighting alone has, I believe, >netted some 75 plus witnesses. >Check Brian's site for additional information. >http://www3.telus.net/public/wilbur8/hbcc_ufo_research.htm >Brian takes the reports and writes them up and has time for >little else. >I've been increasingly uncomfortable about what seems to be a >stonewalling of this localized phenomenon by the UFO research >community. Don, I have been receiving reports from Brian on an almost daily basis. These reports seem to cover a wide range of aerial phenomena. I, for one, do not know how he keeps up with it all. If I could, I would take a skywatch team to BC and stake out the hot sites with full instrumentation. Kudos to Brian. -Bill Hamilton
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 20 Filer's Files #34 -- 2003 From: George A. Filer <Majorstar@aol.com> Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 13:46:58 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 16:38:51 -0400 Subject: Filer's Files #34 -- 2003 -- 2003 Skywatch Investigations. George A. Filer, Director Mutual UFO Network Eastern August 20, 2003, Majorstar@aol.com Webmaster: Chuck Warren My website is at: http://www.georgefiler.com/ Sponsored by: http://www.filer.Isotonix.com/ UFOs OBSERVED IN BLACKOUT AREA The purpose of these files is to report the UFO eyewitness and photo/video evidence that occurs on a daily basis around the world and in space. Did UFOs cause the Blackout? Maine - trooper claims a UFO taps power line in 1965, New York - Pine Bush story, Are we alone? New Jersey -Sam Sherman family spots UFO, FLORIDA - UFO flips over highway, Alabama - daylight rectangle UFO, Louisiana - Three orange lights traveling in formation, Ohio - UFO causes power outage and daylight rods videotaped, North Dakota c-five see disk that moves faster than an airplane, Montana - five lights like a cross, Canada - - UFO flap sweeps Ontario, Argentina - huge round object, UK - Glider pilots spot UFO, Netherlands - Portugal - fluorescent green triangle, Turkey - UFOs running wild DID UFOs CAUSE THE BLACKOUT? Millions of people were without power on August 14th and 15th. The exact cause of the Blackout as of now has not been found. I suggest that UFO activity should be examined as one of the possible causes for the Blackout and satellite data may provide proof of this possibility. The Canadian Prime Minister claimed the blackout started with a lightening strike at a power plant at Niagara, New York, but investigation has ruled out lightening as the cause, since there are thousands of lightening strikes each dacy and the system is well protected. The nation's fourth largest investor-owned electric system, serving 4.3 million customers, First Energy Corp., which is at the center of the blackout investigation says its high-voltage line failures could not have triggered the event, claiming there were numerous unusual power swings elsewhere in the Midwest hours earlier. First Energy spokesman, Todd Schneider said, "What happened ... is much more complex than a few tripped power lines in our system, the utility's datca showed unusual conditions, including strange fluctuations of voltage, in the Midwest grid "as early as noon" Thursday, more than three hours before the First Energy lines failed. The blackout hit its peak at 4:11 p.m. EDT. A federal task force of US and Canadian officials will investigate the power blackout and determine how to keep it from happening again. There was still no clear sense of what triggered the breakdown and sweltering in summer heat from southern New England to Michigan. The preliminary investigation focused on an electrical transmission loop that encircles Lake Erie. No one was sure where the blackout was triggered, although investigators have been intrigued by a series of interruptions on five power linesc in the Cleveland area during the hour before the massive blackout began. The North America Electric Reliability Council states, "Two minutes after the last of the Cleveland-area line problems there were power swings noted in Canada and the Eastern US.'' They cautioned, "It's not clear if these events caused the wider blackout or were a consequence of other events.'' "We never anticipated we could have a cascading outage of this magnitude and speed", said Gent, chief of NERC, the organization charged wcith assessing the dependability of the nation's electric grids. If the problem began in Ohio or Michigan, as speculated, it should never have reached Manhattan, complained New York Gov. George Pataki, adding that the grid was supposed to be designed to isolate such problems. It may be weeks, before solid answers emerge, said Gent. The answer appeared to be somewhere on what is called the Lake Erie Loop. About the time power was disrupted, technicians noticed a stunning development on the northern leg of the loop, some 300 megawatts of electricity moving east abruptly reversed course and within seconds 500 megawatts of power suddenly were moving west. Electricity flows on its easiest path, so it is believed the change in direction was caused by a sudden reduction in power somewhere on the line at the western end of the loop, investigators suggested. Michehl Gent states, "This was a big swing back and fortch, throughout the grid system, power levels began to fluctuate. That caused generators and other systems to trip across the region to protect equipment." More than 100 power plants, including 22 nuclear reactors in the US and in Canada, shut down, to protect themselves against power surges, officials said. But, what triggered the shift of electricity flow, and where? This is where UFO intervention should be examined. Numerous UFO reports are related to power outages. In last weeks Filer's Files #33, Minnesota - two saucers knocked out electricity near the Iowa border on August 5, 2003, at 5:30 AM. The witness saw two saucer shaped UFOs that fried the solid state-switching unit in his well. The local electrical provider came out and found a problem with a transformer and also had to replace a section of underground cable on the road where the witness saw the two saucecrs. George Ritter who fought in Vietnam with the 5th Special Forces videotaped during the Blackout large cylinder shaped UFOs near Fostoria, Ohio only thirty miles from Lake Eire. Sam Sherman the President of Independent International Pictures also had a UFO sighting in New Jersey on August 15, 2003, that is detailed later in these files. The average UFO has shown it has the energy equivalent to a power station. They are frequently seen hovering above power plants and power lines often when the power facils. I contacted transmission line experts who admitted it was possible for large amounts of electricity to be taken from these lines without their knowledge. Geomagnetic storms are another possibility but NASA's spaceweather site Dr. Tony Phillips stated, "Readers have asked if solar activity could be responsible for the widespread blackout in the eastern US and Canada. Not likely. There were no strong solar flares or geomagnetic activity yesterday to trigger the outage." Many readers may remember the largest previous blackout in history, The Great Northeast Blackout on November 9, 1965, when the power system failed at 5:16 PM, and 30 million people in Ontario, New England, New Jersey, New York, and Pennsylvania were without electricity for 13 hours. The event started at the Ontario - New York border, near Niagara Falls when a single transmission line from a Niagara Falls generating station tripped. Five other transmission lines overloaded and tripped within 2.5 seconds, icsolating Niagara Station 1,800 MW generators that became unstable and shut down. The Northeast Power System became unstable and failed within seconds. A Niagara Falls faulty automatic relay device was blamed. However; there is evidence that UFOs may have contributed to the power failures. A month later in December, the grid systems failed in Texas and New Mexico, after UFOs were observed. Dr. James E. McDonald, a noted physicist submitted a report to the US House Committee on Science and Astronautics on July 29, 1968, during Symposium on Unidentified Flying Objects. He states, "Then there are scattered instances in which substantial power distribution systems have failed at or very near the time of observation of aerial phenomena similar, broadly speaking, to one or another UFO phenomenon. I have personally checked on several such instances and am satisfied that the coincidence of UFO observation and power outage did at least occur. Whether there is a causal connection here, and in which direction it may run, remains quite uncertain. Even during the large Northeast blackout, Novcember 9, 1965, there were many UFO observations, several of which I have personally checked. I have inquired at the Federal Power Commission to secure data that might illuminate the basic question of whether these are merely fortuitous, but the data available are inadequate to permit any definite conclusions. In other parts of the world there have, also, been reports of system outages coincident with UFO sightings. Again, the evidence is quite unclear as to causal relations." The largest wave of UFO sightings occurred in 1965. From coast to coast strange low flying objects were reported almost nightly by people of all ages and walks of life. These sketches compiled by a NICAP researcher represent a small sample of hundreds of investigated cases in which truly unknown objects were judged to have been involved. As the year progressed the number of reports rose dramatically. On the night of August 2, thousands of people in 4 Midwestern states witnessed spectacular aerial displays cby large formations of UFOs. That same night a multicolored disc was photographed in Tulsa, Oklahoma while several persons watched it perform low altitude maneuvers. This picture was extensively analyzed, pronounced authentic, and later published by Life magazine and many newspapers. But the year's most incredible development was yet to come. On the evening of November 9 hundreds of UFO sightings were reported throughout the northeast. In New York State luminous objects were seen hovering over 3 very signicficant locations. New York City, a Syracuse relay station, and a Niagara Falls power plant. Within moments of the Syracuse sighting 9 northeastern states and parts of Canada experienced the largest power failure in history. Media accounts including those by NBC news, The Associated Press, and some local papers openly reported the UFO sightings and in a few cases suggested that they be investigated as a possible cause of the blackout. However, before this speculation could gain much momentum the Federal Power Commission announced that the problem had been caused by a broken relay in a Canadian powcer plant. This answer was accepted by the press and public and the UFO angle was quickly forgotten. But, the official explanation was untrue. Major Keyhoe reports that a private investigation by the utilities industry later concluded that the relay had NOT broken, but had been tripped by a huge, unexplainable surge of power. The only major paper which attempted to follow up on a possible UFO connection with the outage was the Boston Record America. But the paper's editors told a NICAP investigator that shortly after publishing this account of the Niagara Falls sighting they had been called by an Air Force officer at the Pentagon and severely repcrimanded for printing the story. In any event, the public at large remained unaware of the presence of UFOs during the Great Northeast Blackout. Filer's Files urges Congress to investigate the possibility that UFOs contributed to the Blackout. Videos and other evidence will be presented if needed. See [ http://www.georgefiler.com/ ]http://www.georgefiler.com/ Filer's Files #34 Views MAINE - TROOPER CLAIMS UFO TAPS POWER LINES Mort Twain writes: "I have always enjoyed and been fascinated by your website. It seemed I should share some information. I went to college in New Hampshire in 1965 when the big power blackout happened on the East Coast. I was just going through the food line when all the food prep machines stopped and the lights blinked. It felt very strange but the power came right back on. However, I sensed something big had just happened so I went back to my dorm room and found out that there had been a massive powerc blackout on the East Coast. But, I found out more than that as I started listening to local New England talk radio. Reports were rampant immediately following the blackout that a fully credible Maine State Trooper had reported seeing a UFO come down and tap into a power line followed by the blackout. This story was all over the news in New England and New Hampshire. I believe the trooper had been interviewed or at least talked to and he was sticking by his story. But, then as so often happens, this news story and its details vanished and was never heard again in the subsequent discussions. No explanation was ever made fcor the story itself. In short, the entire account was erased as if it hadn't been the main topic of discussion at the time of the blackout itself when cause and effect are most obvious. We're being told the current reversed itself suddenly in the Lake Erie loop. In short, safeguards were put into effect after the 1977 NYC blackout but the whole thing happened again like in 1965, except bigger ... and again ... no one has a clue! Hope I was able to offer some "illumination.". If there had been an EMPc big enough to knock the power grid down, all the cars and computers, etc, would be dead too, I suspect. Thanks to Mort Twain NEW YORK - ARE WE ALONE? PINE BUSH, SHAWANGUNK -- Members of the United Friends Observer Society don't think so! Rebecca Rothbaum, Poughkeepsie Journal writes: "Bill Wiand doesn't know who they are or what they want." But he knows what he has seen and it is enough to tell him there is life out there, from some far away part of our universe or maybe even another dimension. ''I did recently have a visitation and it terrified me,'' he said. ''It started like it always does, with the noise in my ears and it just kind of rumbles through. I couldn't move my body, but I could move my eyes and I knew the room was filled with entities.'' Wiand was talking at the mcost recent meeting of the United Friends Observer Society or UFOS, which describes itself as a ''support group for those who have seen UFOs, would like to see a UFO, or have experienced contact with a UFO.'' ''We're here for anyone who needs us to help them through their experiences,'' explained Sue Wiand, who with her husband Bill and Newburgh couple Sue and John Mann, run UFOS. Sue Mann, who was listening, added: ''Also, we're here for anyone who is interested. We don't make any judgments.'' cThe group was founded 10 years ago in nearby Pine Bush, Orange County, an area considered ground zero for UFO sightings in the Northeast and made famous among UFO circles by the late Ellen Crystall's 1994 book ''Silent Invasion: The Shocking Discoveries of a UFO Researcher.'' snip Bruce Cornet, who holds a doctoral degree in geology has been studying UFO activity in the area for more than a decade, and has been trying to marshal scientific documentation to back up his own experiences. As people were filing into the meeting, he described to a handful of listeners what he believes was his first alien abduction -- back in 1981 -- which he has remembered only through hypnosis. ''They immobilized me and undressed me and put this device on my genitals and took a sperm sample,'' Cornet sacid. After overcoming his paralysis, Cornet said he tried to free himself. But the aliens, whom he described as humanoid but ''looking like they were 2,000 years old, shriveled up, with jaundiced skin,'' stunned him with a probe to his forehead. Cornet considers the possibility that many of the UFOs spotted locally may in fact be military aircraft, flying in and out of Stewart Airport. But like other UFO-ologists, Cornet is not totally satisfied with that answer. ''What would the military be parading scuper secret aircraft through farm fields for?'' he asked. snip Thanks to Rebecca Rothbaum, Karl Rabe, PoughkeepsieJournal.com NEW JERSEY - SAM SHERMAN'S UFO SIGHTING OLD BRIDGE - On August 15, 2003, Sam Sherman writes: " My wife and I were driving east on Cottrell Road at 8:43 PM, and just as we approached Route 34, my wife noticed an odd lighted object hovering over some trees. From the distance it looked like a football shaped object, self illuminated fully (from within) by what looked like pure white light. I decided to cross Route 34 and get closer to the object, which apparently was hovering in place. After driving around a few blocks to get a clear view without tcrees obstructing the view, I stopped the car and took my monocular from the car trunk. With the monocular, I got a clearer view of the object. It had a white strobing light on top and a similar light on the bottom. On the side of the object I saw some darkened pattern, but could not make out what it was. Seeing this pattern gave me the idea that it might have been an advertising blimp, not a true UFO, but there are concepts against that. First, I could see no pilot's cabin or gondola on the bottom of thce object and the bottom white strobing light was right on the bottom of the object not under such a gondola. Second, if it were an advertising blimp the message (dark part) on the side was impossible to read clearly and would never have been noted by the unaided eye -- what would be the purpose of such advertising? Third, if there were flashing lights on it to warn planes, it would seem that those should be red not pure white. Fourth, the object as seen appeared very similar to the British sighting as wrcitten in the email post -- below. I have gone to the FAA website and downloaded the Official Regulations for AIRSHIPS (BLIMPS)- They MUST have a RED and a GREEN LIGHT. They MUST have a light at the FORWARD END and a light REAR END. The object we sighted did not meet these regulations. My wife and I are leaning to the opinion that what we observed was a non-terrestrial craft of unknown origin. It may not have been a Football Shape but a Lenticular (lens-shaped) object such as a flying disk -- of which wce only saw one side view making it look from that side as "football shaped". Thanks to [ flexaret2@aol.com ]Sam Sherman flexaret2@aol.com FLORIDA - UFO FLIPS OVER HIGHWAY TAMPA - Three businessmen were heading northbound on I-75 on August 1, 2003, around 9:30 PM. Off in the distance they saw a baby blue,, greenish and white light, spaced apart but on the same aircraft. The passenger seat says, " Do you see that?" I acknowledged, it was weird. A few seconds later it was right over us coming from the west to the east toward the highway at a pretty high speed. As soon as it was directly over us it flipped, reversed and started heading west again finally shooting away. When dicrectly over us it could have been no more then 100 feet way. When it changed directions, I knew something was up and just as it was starting to head away I stuck my head out the window to catch a glimpse and could actually see the craft. It was FLIPPING head over end as it turned! It was a grayish dull metallic color, but its shape was hard to make out, but probably an oval or saucer. It had a greenish baby blue light on one end and a white light on the other. Me and my friend started yelling at each othecr, "DID YOU SEE THAT?" Four other cars around me were hitting there brake so they must have seen it too. Weird stuff. Thanks to Peter Davenport [ www.nuforc.org ]NUFORC ALABAMA - DAYLIGHT RECTANGLE UFO BIRMINGHAM - Two drivers in two cars in phone contact were 15 miles south of Birmingham on I-65 when they noticed a perfect rectangle shaped UFO, like a flat non-reflective white 2-by-4 board. The huge object seemed suspended in air. If it was a single-level passenger craft, the fuselage average passenger height is twelve feet high. One witness asked the other, "If he had noticed the bogey at 2 o'clock? The second witness, a Marine Sgt. noted that although he knew of an airport close by, he had noticed tche object and that it was certainly not moving, nor was it a contrail. He described it as Rectangle shape, like a flat non-reflective white 2-by-4, that seemed suspended in air - - no movement. Thanks to Peter Davenport [ www.nuforc.org ]NUFORC OHIO - UFO CAUSES POWER OUTAGE AND RODS VIDEOTAPED WEST CHESTER -- Mort Twain writes, "This afternoon I talked with researcher Donnie Blessing by telephone concerning her investigation of a UFO sighting on June 2, 2003, that dealt with a reported power outage while the UFO was in relatively close proximity to the witness. Donnie has spoken with the witness and is preparing a report and drawing to send to NUFORC. As we discussed plans on the case and preparations to go about contacting CINERGY to confirm power service disruptions on June 2 around the 2:30c a.m. time frame, it was a big surprise to learn of the major blackout. The data looks very good so far. FOSTORIA -- George Ritter, who fought in Vietnam with the 5th Special Forces, videotaped UFOs on August 15, 2003, the second day of the Blackout. He videotaped a series of photos of large lake freighter-size cylinders flying over his home, thirty miles from Lake Eire. The video is shot on VHS tape at between 10,000 to 15,000 frames per minute. This speed is fast enough to stop any insect or bird. These craft are moving at thousands of miles per hour. Photos can be seen at [ http://www.georgefiler.com/ ]http://www.georgefiler.com/.Filer's Files #34 Views NORTH DAKOTA - FIVE SEE DISK THAT MOVES FASTER THAN AN AIRPLANE TIOGA -- Saturday night on August 2, 2003, at 10:52 PM, a group of us (three who had seen this object, and two who had not) crawled up on a roof of a picnic area at our park. My friend and I had seen the light in the sky twice and my sister had seen it once, therefore, we thought we would see if it would come again. We wanted to look at it closer with binoculars. At around 10:50- 10:58 CST it came, for about 2-3 minutes or less, it looked like a star not blinking, it moved quickly and then it just vanished cafter a bit of flying. My friend looked in the binoculars and said it was spinning and looked like a disk. Thanks to Peter Davenport [ www.nuforc.org ]NUFORC MONTANA - FIVE LIGHTS LIKE A CROSS KALISPELL -- I noticed a yellowish bright light in the sky on August 1, 2003, out my bedroom window, at ten minutes to midnight. Then, I noticed it wasn't moving like a plane would, so I watched it and it would move only slightly, then be still again. This caught my attention, so I awakened my husband and we got out our binoculars and when you looked through them you could see a row of five lights, then almost two sets of two from the center of the object almost like a cross. I watched it move very slowly cover a period of hours from 11:20 PM to 3:30 AM until it was out of sight. That's what we saw. Thanks to Peter Davenport [ www.nuforc.org ]NUFORC CANADA - UFO FLAP SWEEPS ONTARIO STRATFORD, ONTARIO -- UFOs have been particularly active in Canada's eastern province of Ontario during the past week. The witness reported, "On the evening of August 4, 2003, my friend and I were sitting in the hot tub at 10 PM, in my backyard 67 miles west of Toronto and saw a single, slow-moving light headed east." Then I noticed an airplane coming in fast, approaching the light. It was as if he was giving chase, as he had to make a big curve in his flight path to catch up and come up beside the light. It looked asc though he had passed to the left of the light, slowing down just before passing. Then the two dropped out of sight due to our house." NORTH BAY, ONTARIO -- Just 24 hours later, on Wednesday, August 6, 2003, at 12:32 AM, Canadian ufologist Brian Vike reported, the eyewitness and a couple of close friends came to a full stop near Lake Nipissing, located about 250 miles north of Toronto. The witness saw a really strange object and pointed it out to his friends. Due to the object being so low, they wondered if it was attached by a cable, wire, etc. because it sat stationary in one position. At that point, they grabbed the camera, got out of the vehicle ancd took three snapshots of it. The UFO was cigar-shaped, solid gray in color and sitting at 250 feet altitude. The witness said, "While they stood watching the object, it started to pulsate, then disappeared or blinked out." It was also very close and they watched for about four minutes. SALMO RIVER - On August 14, 2003, at 11:20 PM, A husband and wife were traveling to Nelson, BC on Highway #6,along side the Salmo River when to their right flying at the top of the mountain was a round red ball of brilliant light. The witnesses said it moved very quickly, too fast to be an airplane and hugged the contour of the mountain. No sound was heard. Thanks to Brian Vike ARGENTINA - ENORMOUS ROUND OBJECT CARACAS -- Mrs. Enza Colucci, who was returning from the Los Samanes urbanization to her home in Santa Monica, was followed by an enormous round object, surrounded by blinking blue lights on August 19, 2003 between 8:35 and 8:50 PM. Mrs. Coluchi was very excited and her driver, Mr. Alberto Amor=EDn, phoned CEINPLA immediately to file a report and make their experience known. They regret not having had a photo camera on them. Thanks to: [ mailto:lornis1@earthlink.net ]lornis1@earthlink.net UK/ENGLAND - GLIDER PILOT SEE DAYLIGHT RECTANGLE UFO BANBURY, Oxfordshire -- I am a glider pilot in the UK, and the following, which may be of interest to you, is a slightly amended and expanded form of a posting I made on a glider pilots' online discussion group yesterday: On Sunday 3rd August at about 2:30 PM, 1430, I was standing at the launch point at Shenington Airfield when I noticed a small object passing overhead, downwind, directly above and in line with our E-W runway. At first I thought it was a tiny feather drifting with the wind a few feet above my head, but on locoking again, I realized it was much higher, moving in a straight line and at a steady speed. I would hazard a guess at 3000 to 4000 feet altitude. The object was white, but with a slightly wispy, almost translucent appearance which gave it a somewhat indistinct outline, hence my initial reaction that it was a feather. I could however just make out a definite structure, that was basically rectangular in overall plan form, and consisted of what might have been a lattice of booms, which gave it an appearancec rather reminiscent of an old-fashioned TV aerial. Seen from a long distance this would explain why it looked rather vague and wispy. It was moving asymmetrically, that is, set at a slight angle in relation to its direction of travel, which was from west to east. It had a steady and purposeful forward motion, and remained observable as a white speck receding into the distance for a short time after it had passed overhead. Another glider pilot, who that afternoon had landed in a field some 30 miles to thce east of my position, reported that he and his retrieve crew had also seen the same object. They, too, were unable to identify it. STEVENAGE -- About 12.30 PM, on Saturday August 2, 2003, I was observing aircraft flying about six miles from final touchdown into Luton Airport. I was suddenly aware of a bright object in the sky at about 60 degrees from vertical. The sky was clear and sunny with only the jet streams of high civil aircraft breaking an otherwise cloudless sky. Later, I was able to find it, unmoved from the first location. A balloon would have drifted out of sight by now. A second light drifted slowly across from the direction of the Knebworth festival. This second light passed close to the first light before suddenly accelerating northeast in excess of 2000 mph. It was closely followed by what appeared to be a haze, or very small cloud traveling at the same speed, followed by the first at high speed. There was no noise. Two airliners were on final approach to Luton Airport, and one appeared to be heading straight for the light before banking left to take up final approacch. The flight crew must have seen the light. I have to draw the conclusion that the mass gathering of 125,000 people at Knebworth for the Robbie Williams concert had something to do with the appearance of these objects. They most certainly were not balloons, not high-level airliners, not helicopters and not flares. Thanks to Peter Davenport [ www.nuforc.org ]NUFORC NETHERLANDS - GREEN, YELLOW, RED, ORANGE LIGHTS ON DISC APELDOORN -- On August 4, 2003, at 11:30 PM, the witness reports seeing green, yellow, red, and orange lights moving around the outside perimeter of a saucer shaped craft at 5:30 AM. The craft was a gray saucer. It was moving fast, bouncing up and down, left and right in the morning, in a cloudy sky. It was half daylight and the duration of the sighting was for one minute. Thanks to Peter Davenport [ www.nuforc.org ]NUFORC [ http://www.siriusufo.org/ ]TURKEY - UFOs RUNNING WILD REFAHIYE -- UFOs were first seen by the workers at the Refahiye Baku-Tiflis-Ceyhan Pipeline work site. The illuminated lights thought to be UFOs caused great anxiety among the public. Officials said, "It could be a UFO, since illuminated lights, said to be UFOs, have been seen over the skies of Erzincan for a few days. Mr. Halil Canavar, the district official stated that he had a 15 minute recording of the illuminated object's on video-tape, which he was keeping for further study. The object that hoverecd for two hours, shifted south and disappeared. Mr. Erkan Karaman, the Mayor of Erzincan observed the object together with the public and stated " It did not look like a star. The inside was red, the top and bottom parts were green. Some parts were a metallic color. We think it is a UFO. The experts should definitely analyze it." The Sirius UFO Research Center in Istanbul has started an investigation on recent sightings in the region. Thanks to Recep Demirci, YARIN National News, 8/13/03. EDIRNE -- Four UFOs were spotted between August 2nd and 6th. Commerical planes and F-16 s fighters were seen while the sighting occurred. The UFOs were distinctly different. Their maneuver abilities were much greater than those made by manned aircraft. Thanks to The [ http://www.siriusufo.org/ ]Sirius UFO Center Turkey New Computer Virus Clogs E-mail Inboxes Internet users have a new virus called "Sobig.F" -- and it's an upgrade, of its predecessors -- Sobig.A and B. Sobig.F has caused MessageLabs to filter 100-thousand copies. Do not open any E-mail from me or anyone that says: "See the attached file for details." WHAT YOU SHOULD KNOW WHEN YOU BUY OR SELL REAL ESTATE! Learn how you can obtain the best real estate agent to help your buy or sell a home. To get a free copy of this report e-mail me at Majorstar@aol.com DO YOU NEED TO RELIEVE BACK PAIN OR FIBROMYALGIA? http://www.filer.Isotonix.com/ DO YOU NEED TO STOP AGING? [ http://filer.primeblends.com/ ]HGH Enhancer MUFON UFO JOURNAL -- For more detailed monthly investigative reports subscribe to the MUFON JOURNAL. A MUFON membership includes the Journal and costs only $35.00 per year. To join MUFON or to report a UFO go to http://www.mufon.com/. To ask questions contact [ MUFONHQ@aol.com ]MUFONHQ@aol.com or HQ@mufon.com. Mention that I recommended you for membership. "The MUFON Journal is now accepting qualified advertising, please call 1 (303) 932-7709 for more information." Filer's Files is copyrighted 2003 by George A. Filer, all rights reserved. Readers may post the COMPLETE files on their Web Sites if they credit the newsletter and its editor by name and list the date of issue. These reports and comments are not necessarily the OFFICIAL MUFON viewpoint. Send your letters to Majorstar@aol.com. Sending mail automatically grants permission for us to publish and use your name. Please state if you wish to keep your name or e-mail confidential. CAUTION, MOST OF THESE ARE INITIAL REPORTS AND REQUIRE FURTHER INVESTIGATION. Regards, George A. Filer www.GeorgeFiler.com/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 20 Re: Virus On Rampage! - Maccabee From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com> Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 17:51:48 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 19:04:20 -0400 Subject: Re: Virus On Rampage! - Maccabee >From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 11:52:49 -0700 >Subject: Virus On Rampage! >Hello all: >Please run virus check on your computer again! >I have been inundated with virus attacks. Subject lines are >usually "Your Details". "Thank You!" or "Delivery Status >Notification". >All are 98KB to 102 KB in length. The newest virus has made headlines. I have received, since yesterday I would estimate 3 dozen emails from people I don't know. All are in the range 73 to 76 KB long. Delete key is getting a workout! You need a "sixth sense" about these things. I hardly ever open email from someone I don't know and never from a source that has no recognizable name (garbage/gobbledegook).
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 20 Missing Time In Kelowna British Columbia From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO <hbccufo@telus.net> Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 14:43:40 -0700 Fwd Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 20:39:28 -0400 Subject: Missing Time In Kelowna British Columbia Kelowna, British Columbia Missing Time In Kelowna, British Columbia. The story is real but the names in this report are fictitious for obvious reason s. Pat - Driver of the car. Linda - Passenger and friend. Date: July 31, 2003 (Thursday) Time: Between 1:00 a.m. & 2:00 a.m. Today, Monday - August 18, 2003 I received a telephone call from Pat who lives in Kelowna, British Columbia. The lady was very upset and had a time speaking of the event that took place with her and a close female friend of hers. She told me today that a friend had brought over a newspaper article which was run in the Kelowna Capital Newspaper. The headline read "Seeking Witnesses to UFO." which showed up on August 15, 2003. Here is her story. She tells that her and her friend are having a very hard time dealing with what took place. Also another couple who live in the area watched an aerial craft hovering close to the location where the two ladies had parked there car at the side of the highway and gave confirmation to the incident, or at least witnessed an object. At approx: 12:05 a.m., July 31, 2003 the two ladies were playing around on the computer when Linda said, we haven't done any star gazing in a long time....so Pat the lady who contacted me said, you're right, lets go out and do some star gazing. They left home at 12:05 a.m. heading out to an area where they would get a look at the clear night sky without having lights to obscure their view. Pat drove to Glenmore which is north from where she lives and is on the back road heading to Winfield from Kelowna, B.C. They were driving along and Pat reported that there was quite a bit of traffic for that time of the night but after they decided to stop just off to the side of the road to see what they might notice, the traffic stopped coming. There was not a light from any vehicles, not anything other than a very dark stretch of road. Pat grabbed her flashlight and shone it into the sky as she has done this in the past. Her friend Linda has the binoculars on the other side of the car scanning the starry night sky. They were there only a minute out of the car when her Linda said, this is really strange. There are three stars up in the sky and formed into a triangle shape. All three lights at this time were solid white. Both ladies watched as the three white lights started moving, but moving together. The witness with the binoculars said stars don't do that, and Pat replies, of course not..... as she thought it may have been a plane or something. Linda replies, no this is not a plane as the lights were changing color to a neon green and the object had stopped and hovered just ahead of their car. Pat turned the headlights off, and shone her flashlight down the road in front of her car. They were worrying about animals such as a bear, cougars, etc.. being around in this isolated area. As she shone the light up the road both of the women spotted something which frightened them a lot. Five sets of eyes staring at approx: 40 feet away from them. As frightened as they were, their first thoughts were of coyotes or some other wild animal, but she said once you really look your brain takes it in. Pat describes the creatures as being roughly four feet tall, dark gray shoulders and coming towards the women. Pat said "I was so scared I could hardly talk and could hardly breathe". She yelled to her friend Linda, "get in the car, get in the car". Pat said they both scrambled to get back into the vehicle but she said it was like moving through quicksand and it felt horrible. Being so terrified and trying to move as fast as they possibly could, it felt as if everything was slowing down around them. Once they were both back in the car, Pat tried to turn the ignition on so she could get the power windows up. But all the electrics on the car was failing. The dome light, headlights were going off and on, on their own and as she said. "Everything was going nuts" ! Finally the car started and they turned around in the middle of the road and sped off towards home and as they traveled along they noticed a fair bit of traffic coming in their direction. (Pat commented to me, where was all the traffic when all this was happening?) As they drove along the road, Pat said to Linda, "this is the weirdest thing. "She said I feel like electricity, my whole body is tingling just like I was zapped by a charge from a battery". When Linda heard this, she said, "I didn't want to say anything to you as you might think I was nuts, but I am feeling the same. As if I was hit by an electrical charge." As Linda was explaining how she felt, and facing Pat she glanced at the clock in car and said, "Jesus Pat, look at the time" ! Pat said what are you talking about ? Linda said we were only stopped and out of the car for a few minutes at the most, and the time of the car's clock reads an extra 25 minutes of time. As they drove along and close to home they both discussed it and wondered if they had imagined it all. As they were just about home, they turned onto Baker Street which is covered in darkness next to a field. All of a sudden they saw this bright, glowing neon green ball low in the sky. The object started moving to the right, "stop", left, "stop", right, "stop", left, "stop" and then it started to move away until the ladies car came to a halt, and so did the object. Before they knew it, the ball of green light started heading towards them at a high rate of speed and hovered high above their car. At this point they just wanted to get to their home and be as far away from whatever it was as possible. The driver sped off quickly again and they headed into an orchard which was very close by. They thought they would not be seen hiding amongst the trees, plus there was no lighting in this area to reveal their position. Pat looked at her friend and said, "they will never find us here". Both women are sitting in the car trying to get themselves together as the driver said she was losing it at this point. Only after a very short time after arriving in the orchard Linda said, Pat you better look out the front windscreen and look up slightly. We don't have just one green ball of light, there are now three, glowing green objects. The way the green lights were in the sky, it looked as if the they formed a triangle formation and all moving now together. After a short period of time each of the green lights moved away in different directions. (HBCC UFO asked if the witness could give some idea of how large the green lights were. The witness told me each of the lights were approx: half the size of a full moon). After seeing the lights flying off into different directions the ladies raced home as quickly as they possibly could. Once safe at home, both ladies shaken, they tried to come up with some reasonable explanation for what just happened. They tried to put it out of their minds but that was impossible !!!! Later on both ladies turned in for the night and when they woke up in the morning, Pat discovered a large bruise on her left breast and another on the bottom of her foot. She did not know how they got there but she did know they were extremly painful..... As she sat drinking a cup of coffee Linda finally got up and was walking down the hall towards the kitchen when she said, "god, good morning - do I feel rough this morning". After Linda finished saying that ....Pat watched as blood came pouring from Linda's nose. Pat jumped up, ran and grabbed a towel. Linda also commented that she was having a lot of pain in her lower back area. She asked Pat to have a look to see if there was anything that could be seen. So she looked and gasped, there was a large circle burned into her skin and was located in the middle, lower back area (tail bone). Also bruises were found on Linda's body as well, some of them appeared to look like finger marks and there were three of them on each thigh. Both women at this point were shocked, upset and very frightened. Linda, who was up visiting from the Abbotsford ended her holiday and headed back home. Two days after being home in Abbotsford, B.C. she went to consult her family doctor due to still experiencing the terrible pain which was originating from her lower back, plus it was not getting any better. Her doctor examined her, and her injury to her back, the doctor said if I didn't know any better I would say you have a radiation burn. He was of course referring to the burn mark on Linda's back. The doctor is still trying to heal this mark on her back, as something had burned right through the outer layer of this ladies skin. (HBCC UFO Note:I will be keeping in contact with the witness to this event and hope I may be able to help in some small way). Update to this Story: On the night this frightening experience took place, another couple who couldn't sleep decided to go out for a walk on the warm evening. They looked up at times into the night sky, and all of a sudden they noticed a bright glowing neon colored light. The couple also added that the light was moving in the strangest way, by coming to a complete stop, moving again, stopping and then moved off very quickly. The light was seen in the same vicinity where the ladies had been stopped at the side of the road. This sounds like it gives confirmation to what the ladies saw that night. HBCC UFO Research Foot note: I would recommend to anyone finding such marks as described here in this report, that they consult a professional, such as their family doctor. One has to remember that they do not have to walk in to the doctor's office and make claims of missing time, or possible abduction. Let you doctor come up with the answers. Also there are some very good people who carry out work in the abduction field, and I will be very happy to put you in contact with such folks if you would like. Just write to me and request that I do so, and give me permission to pass your personal information along. I would also like to add, this Missing Time event took place around the same date 147 witnessed watched one amazing event unfold in southeastern British Columbia. I also received a flood of sighting reports which also came from this area. July 27/28 to August 18, 2003. If anyone has any questions, please feel free to write me an email. Take care Brian Vike Director HBCC UFO Research Canadian Toll Free UFO Hotline 1 866 262 1989 - Free call. (Canada Wide). Home Phone & Fax: 1 250 845 2189 Editor: Canadian Communicator - Paranormal Magazine email: hbccufo@telus.net Website: http://www3.telus.net/public/wilbur8/hbcc_ufo_research.htm
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 21 Re: Virus On Rampage! - Kaeser From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 17:59:39 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 03:17:46 -0400 Subject: Re: Virus On Rampage! - Kaeser >From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 11:52:49 -0700 >Subject: Virus On Rampage! >Hello all: >Please run virus check on your computer again! >I have been inundated with virus attacks. Subject lines are >usually "Your Details". "Thank You!" or "Delivery Status >Notification". >All are 98KB to 102 KB in length. >Senders are many and varied, but now I'm getting back bounced >messages indicating that I was the sender! >I downloaded the latest Norton Anti-Virus and ran a full scan. I >deleted one suspicious file, but the attack goes on. Somewhat off topic, but some advice for those interested: The virus you've referenced is one of two that is causing havoc around the world right now. Details on WORM_SOBIG.F can be found at: http://www.trendmicro.com/vinfo/virusencyclo/default5.asp?VName=WORM_SOBIG.F and everyone is advised to be very careful in opening attachments that you aren't expecting. Even if the message is from someone you know, it may still have an infected attachment. This worm sets up its own SMTP process and does not rely on a Microsoft product to spread itself, but it does rely on the Outlook Address Book or Contact List. Outlook Express can import existing address book information when it's installed, so the fact that you don't actively use it may not prevent your system from sending messages if you're infected. As noted, keep your antivirus software up to date, no matter what flavor you choose, and practice safe computing. The other threat that is causing a lot of grief (I got very little sleep last night) is WORM_BLASTER.D, which utilizes a flaw in the Microsoft NT/2K/XP platforms to spread itself around. Do yourself, and everyone else, a favor and make sure you have the Microsoft patch installed on your system. Information on this can be accessed at: http://www.microsoft.com/security/incident/blast.asp. The current "Blaster" threat takes advantage of this flaw, and everyone should realize that this "hole" allows others to access and make changes to files on your hard drive. It's not just a virus problem, but certainly one they'll take advantage of while they can. Steve
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 21 Re: Virus on Rampage! - Morton From: Dave Morton <Marspyrs@aol.com> Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 22:52:15 EDT Fwd Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 10:47:09 -0400 Subject: Re: Virus on Rampage! - Morton >From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 11:52:49 -0700 >Subject: Virus On Rampage! >Please run virus check on your computer again! >I have been inundated with virus attacks. Subject lines are >usually "Your Details". "Thank You!" or "Delivery Status >Notification". I'm having the same email problem. I don't know how this could have happened. I run with ZonealarmPro in stealth mode, email checking by ZonealarmPro, Norton AV running continuously, email checking by Norton, current on all Norton, ZA, and Microsoft maint. I check Microsoft Updates daily (I'm running Win/XP Pro). However, when I checked it this evening, there were 2 more critical fixes which had been added since last night. I've now installed both of them. We'll see if that works. I also purchased Pest Patrol from Zonelabs, and have run it on all my drives, and deleted a number of items (some items needed to remain such as "MODE.COM" from an old DOS release...). Hmmmm.... It's amazing what it found that Norton didn't find... If the email below can be believed, the virus is called "WORM_SOBIG.F". I have no idea who these people are, and didn't knowingly send them any email. It might be a trap. We'll see how it goes from this point forward. Dave Morton ================================================ Subj: InterScan NT Alert Date: 8/20/2003 10:36:10 AM Central Daylight Time From: antivirus@onvol.net To: marspyrs@aol.com Sent from the Internet (Details) on-vol InterScan has detected virus/es in the email you sent. The virus was removed from the email. You should go to http://housecall.antivirus.com to check your computer for viruses. Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 17:32:00 +0200 Method: Mail From: <marspyrs@aol.com> To: Attardanth@Vol.net.mt File: application.pif Action: deleted Virus: WORM_SOBIG.F ====================================================
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 21 CI: Malin Space Science Systems Requests Mars From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 20:27:52 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 10:49:36 -0400 Subject: CI: Malin Space Science Systems Requests Mars Cydonian Imperative 8-21-03 Malin Space Science Systems Requests Target Sites on Mars by Mac Tonnies For images/links: http://www.mactonnies.com/cydonia.html (page 41) Malin Space Science Systems is asking the public to recommend sites on the Martian surface deserving of closer study. The Mars Orbiter Camera on board the Mars Global Surveyor spacecraft, now in its extended mission sequence, successfully acquired a high- resolution frontal image of the Face on Mars in 2001 as well as other anomalous features. Intriguing features yet to be imaged include the Rounded Formation at the far west of the City complex in Cydonia, the D&M Pyramid (imaged by the Mars Odyssey's relatively low- resolution THEMIS camera with surprising results), and the tantalizingly artificial-looking "Runway" (aka "String of Pearls") atop Hecates Tholus. Let MSSS know that the scientific community needs more images of Martian anomalies by visiting the Mars Orbiter Camera Target Request Site at: www.msss.com/plan/intro -end-
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 21 Re: B.C. Man Spots Object In Nevada - Hatch From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net> Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 00:06:32 -0700 Fwd Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 10:56:23 -0400 Subject: Re: B.C. Man Spots Object In Nevada - Hatch >From: Brian Vike - HBCCUFO <hbccufo@telus.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 08:26:31 -0700 >Subject: Re: B.C. Man Spots Object In Nevada >>From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >>Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 23:20:35 -0700 >>Subject: Re: B.C. Man Spots Object In Nevada >>>From: Brian Vike - HBCCUFO <hbccufo@telus.net> >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>>Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2003 17:49:23 -0700 >>>Subject: B.C. Man Spots Object In Nevada >><snip> >>Just what shape does a "spoke shaped object" have? >>Does it look anything like an Italian coffee pot by >>any chance? >Good Day >When I talked with the witness on the telephone, he described it >as being just like a wheel chair's wheel, with the spokes. This >was exactly what he told me the thing looked like. Hi Brian: Aaah! Its a _wheel_ shape, complete with spokes. I had a mental picture of something like a metal rod, or a straight piece of wire. Best - Larry
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 21 Re: Unprecedented UFO Wave In British Columbia - From: Brian Vike - HBCCUFO <hbccufo@telus.net> <hbccufo@telus.net> Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 23:53:37 -0700 Fwd Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 10:54:46 -0400 Subject: Re: Unprecedented UFO Wave In British Columbia - >From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 10:49:04 -0300 >Subject: Unprecedented UFO Wave In British Columbia >I would like to direct the List's attention and possibly its >resources to what amounts to a UFO flap of major proportions >which has been going on in central British Columbia - Houstan, >Smithers, Telkwa, etc. - for some 16 months. <snip> Hello Don and List If anyone would ever care to drop into my neck of the woods you would be very welcome. It is hard to keep up with things sometime, this is for sure. But I do plug away at it and get things done. I really do like keeping on top of everything, but over the last while with a ton of phone calls, some emails, interviews etc.. I have fallen behind. I have a large number of sighting reports to get to everyone yet, and of course this sighting for July 27/28 2003 which I am working on now. What makes this a slow process is due to the hours of audio tape I have to go through, and of course from there write up the reports. So if anyone should ever get up this way, be sure to let me know as you are very welcome here. Take care Brian
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 21 Re: Virus On Rampage! - Hatch From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net> Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 00:19:29 -0700 Fwd Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 10:58:59 -0400 Subject: Re: Virus On Rampage! - Hatch >From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 17:51:48 -0400 >Subject: Re: Virus On Rampage! >>From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net> >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 11:52:49 -0700 >>Subject: Virus On Rampage! >>Hello all: >>Please run virus check on your computer again! >>I have been inundated with virus attacks. Subject lines are >>usually "Your Details". "Thank You!" or "Delivery Status >>Notification". All are 98KB to 102 KB in length. >The newest virus has made headlines. I have received, since >yesterday I would estimate 3 dozen emails from people I don't >know. All are in the range 73 to 76 KB long. Delete key is >getting a workout! >You need a "sixth sense" about these things. I hardly ever open >email from someone I don't know and never from a source that has >no recognizable name (garbage/gobbledegook). Hi Bruce: That's odd, 73-76 KB? All of mine were in the 98-103 KB range. Maybe there are two mutations. Last nite, I was just deluged with these. Tonight (Weds nite/Thurs AM) nothing! Lots of fast loading List messages like yours! Only one Nigerian Scam-Spam slipped thru, no Viagra..... virtually nothing! Maybe my dial-up ISP took some well needed action. Ole Jonny Br=E6nne from Norway wrote in on another List. He was working overtime patching up systems over there, where they really took a hit from this. Best - Larry
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 22 Re: Apology To UFO UpDates List And John Velez - From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com> Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 17:55:05 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 13:22:14 -0400 Subject: Re: Apology To UFO UpDates List And John Velez - >From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 15:59:39 -0500 >Subject: Re: Apology To UFO UpDates List And John Velez Welcome back Poet Uforeat.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 22 Re: Pentagon Archives? - Maccabee From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com> Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 17:55:24 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 13:24:19 -0400 Subject: Re: Pentagon Archives? - Maccabee >From: Keith Chester <projectbluebook@erols.com> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 18:13:37 -0400 >Subject: Pentagon Archives? >Hello List, >If I understand correctly, during the summer of 1947 UFO reports >were increasing, so the Air Force put together a basic >preliminary analysis of sorts in which was initiated by the >Pentagon's Air Intelligence Requirements Division. The Roswell i>ncident was not mentioned, since either the event was too >classified for dissemination to lower echelon units or it was a >known project and not necessary to include with UFO reports. Of >course, this is the heated debate that takes place to this day, >but that's not important at the moment. >My question is, can anyone verify the archives existence and >describe it in more detail? It must be absolutely huge. Does >some of the older UFO literature discuss this issue and if so >can anyone direct me to the writings? Did Albert Chop or Dewey >Fournet ever speak of its existence. Don't know what you mean by "verify th archive's existence.": The document you refer to does exist. It is described in my book, along with a lot of other information about the early years. The UFO FBI Connection (based on the files of the FBI, Air Force Intelligence, Project Blue Book and the CIA UFO files). Can get it on Amazon.com send me email at: brumac@compuserve.com
The UFO UpDates Archive Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 22 Re: UFO Crashes In South Africa - Maccabee From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com> Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 18:43:21 -0400 Fwd Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 13:37:04 -0400 Subject: Re: UFO Crashes In South Africa - Maccabee >From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker@earthlink.net> >To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 18:30:49 -0400 >Subject: Re: UFO Crashes In South Africa >>From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22@fastmail.fm> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >>Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 05:17:03 -0800 >>Subject: Re: UFO Crashes In South Africa ><snip> >>Ray, >>This sounds like the Kalahari incident. The original story >>involved a Mirage jet using a Thor-2 Maser canon, not an air-to- >>air missile. The maser supposedly disabled the UFO which crashed >>in the Kalahari Desert. The Thor-2 was supposedly an >>experimental weapon. >>After this report emerged, a rather shady figure by the name of >>Captain James Van Greunen produced some dubious documents. In >>1989 van Greunen was in London claiming to be "on the run" from >>the South African secret service after he'd blown the lid off >>this alleged UFO retrieval, the so-called "Kalahari crash". Van >>Greunen allegedly escaped to Germany soon after, and at the time >>of his "defection" he claimed the rank of Captain. >>Van Greunen admitted to Michael Hesemann that he'd faked the >>Kalahari documents. Van Greunen's confessions put an end to >>further interest in this incident. >>Only British researcher Anthony Dodd maintained that this was a >>real incident. I do not know of anyone still taking this >i>ncident seriously except for Tony Dodd. >Thanks, Bill, for that background on a hoax. >Do you or anyone else out there know whether a "Thor-2 Maser >canon" is a reality or fiction like the rest of that crashed UFO >story? >If there is such a weapon, can anyone of you tell me if this >refers to a MASER (Microwave Amplification Through Stimulated >Emission of Radiation) beamed weapon (coherent microwave >weapon). I didn't know anything like that currently existed that >could carried on and used from a fighter-sized aircraft.> >Bruce, anyone? As I recall from about 10(?) years ago, when this hoax was circulating the description implied that the "maser cannon" was a laser beam device. The Air Force has been working on a laser beam weapon for many years. The actual laser has been tested on the ground. However, the Airborne Laser Lab (ABL) which is a 747 with this laser on board, has yet to be built. So far as I know from reviewing the laser work in the USA and other other places there are no actual lasers powerful enough to be weapons, installed on any aircraft as yet (there could be much weaker lasers for range finding, signalling, etc.) A weapon leve laser would radiate hundreds of kilowatts to megawatts of power. There are only a few lasers in existence that have this power level (e.g., at the White Sands proving ground there are 2, I believe.) None are "portable"... requiring sizable ground installations in order to operate/.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 22 Re: UFO Crashes In South Africa - Jonnaert From: Thierry Jonnaert <thierry.jonnaert@pandora.be> Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 02:50:33 +0200 Fwd Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 14:02:50 -0400 Subject: Re: UFO Crashes In South Africa - Jonnaert >From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker@earthlink.net> >To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 10:33:16 -0400 >Subject: Re: UFO Crashes In South Africa >>From: Thierry Jonnaert <thierry.jonnaert@pandora.be> >>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2003 23:56:15 +0200 >>Subject: UFO Crashes In South Africa >>Time to hear more from the other side of the world... It's >>right... Roswell is still very interesting... >>Back In Time >>South-Africa had several UFO crashes in the past - 3 in 5 years. ><snip> >>UFO-CRASH, 7-05-1989 >>The SA Tafelberg - a ship - warned Kaapstad Maritime Center at >>13.45 GMT... UFO is coming in the direction of South Africa at >>a speed of 5746 nautical miles per hour. >>Because the UFO did not give an identification signal they sent >>2 MIRAGE FII Gs with new experimental weapons. >>They hit the UFO, and... at 14.02 GMT... the UFO came down in >>the desert, not far from the frontier of South Africa. >Theirry and List, >A bit of analysis and critical evaluation might be helpful here! >Just what kind of air-to-air missiles do you propose the Mirage >FII Gs to have been carrying that could catch up with a UFO >capable of flying at "5746 nautical miles per hour" and probably >far above that?! That's about 1/3rd orbital velocity! I >challenge you to tell me the name of any air-to-air missile >South Africa has that could catch an object at that speed. I can >assure you that there is none so capable, simply because it >would be an over-expenditure of money and weapons system because >any aircraft they are designed to bring down would not be >travelling even half that fast at their maximum speed. >Then too, I doubt any South African ship carries a radar that >could tell those aboard that an object was flying at that high a >precise speed or that the radio operator would quote such a very >precise speed in that kind of situation. >Frankly, that report reads like Z-grade fiction, and I suggest >you take it with a healthy 'grain of salt'. And if memory serves >me, we have heard other ridiculous reports from that same >source, all too often. Hi Ray, Thanks for your ideas and critical evaluation... I will think about all this...and try to discover more about those c. in South Africa etc. ! This should be the so-called Kalahari incident. The Mirage was probably using a Thor-2 Laser canon !? Following dr. Popovitch they did not used a Thor-2 Laser canon, but the 'magnetic gun ' !? I was also writing with Alexander Beletsky who respected dr. Popovitch ( Lady MIG ). I will write him again and ask him if he knows MORE about the c. in South Africa ( not only the so-called Kalahari incident ). The information is also coming from mr. A.DODD ( Director of Investigations / British... ).... I will try to reach him, to obtain MORE information ( details ) about all this. And about Popovitch... Normally Dr. Popovitch is respected in Russia and Europe as one of the great experts about UFO's. But...of course...maybe she got her information directly of A.Dodd !? I will try to obtain more information from some generals here ( some generals in Belgium knew a lot of things about European UFO's etc. ). It seems there were certainly a few UFO-c. in South Africa, but which of them is bringing us the best information ? I should have more information about the other c. in South Africa. But it's only ONE of the hundreds of phenomenal c. we heard about in Europe - by books, sites, newspapers,etc. - ! We got a lot of UFO's in France, Spain, Norway, Italy, Belgium, The Netherlands, Russia, etc. But of course...some c. could be falsified !? That's happening also in the US etc., and so it's more difficult to know the truth ! Of course..this is not the end of this research.... In the past I was more involved with the Paranormal Phenomena & Art ( still ), but I'm more and more interested in UFO's ( the last years ). But again...thanks for your evaluation. I will think about all this. Regards, Thierry Jonnaert --
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 22 Sean Morton Ordered To Pay UFOWATCHDOG.COM From: Royce J. Myers III - The UFO Watchdog <ufowatchdog@msn.com> Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 22:47:59 -0700 Fwd Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 14:05:16 -0400 Subject: Sean Morton Ordered To Pay UFOWATCHDOG.COM JUDGE FINDS IN FAVOR OF UFOWATCHDOG.COM...AGAIN Supposed Psychic Sean David Morton Ordered To Pay UFOWATCHDOG.COM Attorney's Fees In January 2003, self-proclaimed "World's Foremost UFO Researcher" Sean David Morton filed a one-million dollar defamation lawsuit against UFOWATCHDOG.COM and its editor, alleging that the website had published "false" and "malicious" information about him in a series of articles which raised serious questions about many of Morton's UFO and psychic claims, his background claims, and his credibility. Morton alleged the articles appearing at the UFOWATCHDOG.COM website in relation to him were "slanderous". In court papers, Morton further claimed that the articles "tend to injure [Morton] in his profession and business" and tend to "lessen the credibility of [Morton] as an author, lecturer, and talk show radio host and affect and lessen the profits of [Morton's] business and occupation." Morton also alleged that he had "suffered loss of his reputation, shame, mortification, and hurt feelings all to his general damage in the sum of one million dollars..." UFOWATCHDOG.COM editor Royce J. Myers III commented on Morton's accusations saying, "The lawsuit was clearly a desperate attempt to stifle any debate about Morton's UFO and psychic claims." Morton failed to respond to any invitation for comment for over two years, though direct inquiries were made and an open invitation for Morton to comment was posted on the UFOWATCHDOG.COM website. Throughout the lawsuit, UFOWATCHDOG.COM stood by what it had published and that no defamation had taken place. The type of lawsuit filed by Morton is known as a SLAPP, which stands for Strategic Lawsuit Against Public Participation. Such lawsuits are usually filed under the guise of a defamation claim and are designed to silence outspoken opponents or critics by forcing them to devote time and resources in combating a lawsuit. Recognizing the need to protect people from being the targets of SLAPPs, the California State Legislature enacted a law which would allow a defendant to file an anti-SLAPP motion to demonstrate the lawsuit against them is baseless. UFOWATCHDOG.COM retained well known Los Angeles civil rights attorney Carol A. Sobel to represent the website and its editor. Sobel immediately filed an anti-SLAPP motion to show that Morton's lawsuit had absolutely no merit. "He thrust himself into the UFO and paranormal fields by making his claims publicly in print, on the Internet, on a few television shows, lecturing, and on late night radio. First he wants to say aliens are here, that UFOs are real and that the government is flying UFOs at a secret test site. But when it came down to responding to the anti-SLAPP motion filed against him, Morton's lawyer says UFOs don't exist because the government says they don't and that UFOs aren't of any public importance. That seemed to be just a bit hypocritical," said Myers. With the anti-SLAPP motion filed, Morton only had to prove that a single false statement was made by UFOWATCHDOG.COM. The California anti-SLAPP statute clearly gave Morton an open door to present evidence to show that he could prevail in court and that the allegations made by Morton against UFOWATCHDOG.COM had merit. "The anti-SLAPP motion directly challenged Morton to present any evidence that his claim against UFOWATCHDOG.COM was true. All he had to do was prove a single false statement had been made. When it came time for Morton to put up, his proof never materialized. Morton only needed to provide the court with a solitary piece of evidence and he couldn't do it," said Myers. In an extensive two-page ruling, the presiding judge stated that Morton had "not shown that he can prevail or show actual malice or that the matters complained of are not true..." ruling in favor of UFOWATCHDOG.COM, thus dismissing the unfounded lawsuit. When asked what the reaction was to UFOWATCHDOG.COM's victory in court, Myers said, " The overall response was extremely positive and supportive. There were a few antagonists out there crying foul about the ruling, but in this case the facts are on file with the courts, facts which anyone can obtain. The point a few people don't want to acknowledge is that Morton had a perfect opportunity to stand up and prove his claims by providing evidence and he couldn't do it. In this case, it was clear that such proof didn't exist." With UFOWATCHDOG.COM proving that Morton's lawsuit was baseless, California law gives the right for a prevailing party in an anti-SLAPP hearing to seek a court order awarding payment of attorney fees and other costs associated with the motion. In a recent ruling, a judgment was entered against Morton ordering him to pay nearly $16,000.00 in attorney fees. Myers commented, "I find it amusing that Morton alleges he can teach people how to use psychic powers and remote view anything, yet he couldn't use his own supposed psychic powers to see what was going to happen in court. That turned out to be an expensive psychic reading for someone who advertises himself as 'one of America's greatest psychics'." Since early 2001, UFOWATCHDOG.COM has been a news source for both UFOs and the paranormal. Most notably, UFOWATCHDOG.COM has challenged a number of the claims made by well known UFO personalities, has provided commentary on the UFO and paranormal fields, as well as having exposed UFO hoaxes all in an effort to further more rational and scientific debate regarding issues such as UFOs and the paranormal. Related Press Releases: Lawsuit Aims To Silence Voice Of Critic In UFO Debate http://www.ufowatchdog.com/lawsuit.html UFOWATCHDOG.COM Prevails In Court http://www.ufowatchdog.com/lawsuit.html The Story That Started It All http://www.ufowatchdog.com/mortonfiles.html
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 22 Re: Virus on Rampage! - Groff From: Terry Groff <terry@terrygroff.com> Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 16:07:15 -0500 Fwd Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 17:25:31 -0400 Subject: Re: Virus on Rampage! - Groff >From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 08:59:48 -0700 (PDT) >Subject: Re: Virus on Rampage! >>From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >>Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 11:54:04 -0700 >>Subject: Re: Virus on Rampage! ><snip> >>One careless person, who has your email address in his/her >>address book is all it takes. Once copied, SOBIG will spoof your >>address as the 'SENDER: ' of the viruses sent to 3rd and 4th >>parties, to further disguise itself. >Hi Larry, >I'm glad I'm not the only one. These idiotic attachments are >gobbling away at my disk-space. I've scanned one using Yahoo's >Norton application, and it was infected. >>Mac Tonnies (macbot@yahoo.com) Hi Mac, You might try a proggy I use to preview my email on the server before I ever DL it to my PC. It's called MailWasher Pro. It's main function is to allow you to see the email and decide whether you want to DL it or not. It can automatically pre-check an email against ORDB's (Open Relay Databases) for known spammers. It allows you to place a sender (or an entire domain) on a blacklist or a friends list. You can send Bounce messages back to the sender as if your email no longer exists. You can set up very sophisticated filters. Try it free at http://entier.ecosm.com/link/?wrbrto Terry
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 22 "Saucer Full Of Secrets" From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO <hbccufo@telus.net> Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 13:49:05 -0700 Fwd Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 17:31:44 -0400 Subject: "Saucer Full Of Secrets" Hi List When reading the article keep in mind on a couple of things here. One bit states I don't believe in aliens. well I sit right in the middle of the fence on this, sometimes falling one way due to the large amount of material I have received. Second is the amount of witness who reported to me, at the time the newspaper came out there were 23 witnesses, but that soon grew to 147 witnesses. Just keeping me honest. Take care, Brian ----- The Cranbrook Daily Townsman Tuesday, August 12, 2003 Saucer Full Of Secrets Houston, B.C. "ufologist" seeks info on strange sights over Okanagan and East Kootenay. By Carolyn Grant "There's got to be a reasonable explanation but there were no aurora that night; it wasn't an airplane, it wasn't the space station. And what was this beam of light that sat there for over an hour? It's very unusual." Brian Vike, Ufologist KIMBERLEY - - Was there really something in the east Kootenay skies in the early morning hours of July 28th 2003? Several weeks ago the Daily Bulletin/Daily Townsman reported that a Cranbrook resident witnessed a low flying, slow-moving white light in the sky over St. Mary's Lake. The light appeared to travel in zig-zag pattern and made no noise. While the Kimberley RCMP said that no one had called in any similar reports, Mr. Brian Vike, a self described "Ufologist" in Houston, British Columbia, has been contacted by 23 people, from Kamloops to Jaffray, who say they saw something between the hours of 12.30 a.m. to 2 a.m. on the night in question. Mr. Vike owns and operates HBCC UFO Research, a website which documents UFO sightings in Canada. Vike also does UFO updates on talk radio all over North America. The Houston, Terrace, Smithers area is a hot bed of UFO sightings, he says. UFOLOGIST SEEKS INFO "It's the whole Highway 16 area, Vike said. "It's phenomenal the amount of reports I get." In fact, Vike says that the UFO sightings are even causing a little tourist boom in the area. "People are interested in coming to the area when they hear my reports on the radio," he said. "It's good promotion for the area. It may be a little strange, but when I'm talking about UFO sightings, I also talk about the area; the scenery, the fishing, the camping." There has been some media interest in the UFO sightings in the Houston area. Several local papers have done stories and Vike says the Life Network was in the area filming last February. Vike says he doesn't particularly believe in "aliens" rather he is interested in explaining the unexplained. "In B.C. alone last year there were 176 sightings. A lot of them have explanations. For instance, recently there was a report of a ball of orange fire in the south eastern sky. It ended up being the planet Mars, which is very visible this month. There's meteors, there's space debris; there's the northern lights. But there definitely are a number of sightings that you just can't explain." The St. Mary's sighting falls into the unexplained category. Here's what Vike says... he has collected so far. "First of all a huge bright coloured object was witnessed by a number of residents who have already sent in their reports to me. Also just after this object passed through the night sky, a ray of white light was witnessed sitting stationary in the sky from horizon to horizon. Within the ray of light, it rotated and had a black line, or shadow, on the one side of it. This lasted for well over an hour and stayed stationary. It didn't move at all until it dissipated." Vike says the 23 reports he has seen are independent. "They are coming from Kamloops, through Vernon, then Kimberley, then Jaffray." he said.... "I'd like to see if there are others who saw it. I spoke to a woman from Vernon yesterday who says she saw it from her apartment balcony. There had to have been others who saw it too." "As for the object that was first reported, I do know the international space station was visible around the time of the sighting. But we've ruled out the space station because of how low the light was and how slowly it moved. As for the beam, or ray of light, we believe this was left behind from the object itself, but certainly have no idea at this time what it was." "We have a bright light, heading in a south-east line. It was seen by several people. It was low down. There's got to be a reasonable explanation but there were no aurora that night; it wasn't an airplane; it wasn't the space station. And what was this beam of light that sat there for over an hour? It's very unusual". If all the reports from Kimberley and area aren't enough to peak your interest, there's more. On the evening of the 27th, a bright, white light was reported over Houston. On July 31st another bright light, moving at low altitude in a zig-zag pattern, making no noise, was reported over Houston. Other sightings have been reported in the Enderby area at the end of July. If you saw something strange in the sky the night of July 27/28, Vike wants to hear from you. You can call him toll free at 1 866 262 1989 or email hbccufo@telus.net For full text of the eye witness accounts, including those from Jaffray and Kimberely, go to Vike's website at: http://www3.telus.net/public/wilbur8/hbcc_ufo_research.htm In the meantime, keep your eyes on the skies. Incidentally, the view of Mars this month is reported to be the best any human being will ever see. During the four days, August 25 - 28, 2003, Mars is closer to earth than any time before in human history. The red planet will be in opposition to the sun. Opposition occurs when a planet is "opposite" to the sun as viewed from earth. During opposition Mars will rise in the south-east while the sun sets in the north-west. On August 27 2003, Mars and Earth are at their closest. Only 55,758,006 kilometers apart, almost 30% closer than an average opposition. Viewing will be best between 10 p.m. and 2 a.m. ----- Brian Vike Director HBCC UFO Research Canadian Toll Free UFO Hotline 1 866 262 1989 - Free call. Editor: Canadian Communicator - Paranormal Magazine email: hbccufo@telus.net Website: http://www3.telus.net/public/wilbur8/hbcc_ufo_research.htm
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 22 Re: Sean Morton Ordered To Pay UFOWATCHDOG.COM From: Charlette LeFevre <clefevre@oz.net> Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 14:19:02 -0700 (MST) Fwd Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 17:34:20 -0400 Subject: Re: Sean Morton Ordered To Pay UFOWATCHDOG.COM >From: Royce J. Myers III - The UFO Watchdog <ufowatchdog@msn.com> >To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 22:47:59 -0700 >Subject: Sean Morton Ordered To Pay UFOWATCHDOG.COM Attorney Fees >JUDGE FINDS IN FAVOR OF UFOWATCHDOG.COM...AGAIN What a scoop! Royce Myers is now qualified to work for tabloid magazines. -Charlette LeFevre Seattle UFO/Paranormal Group
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 23 Re: Sean Morton Ordered To Pay UFOWATCHDOG.COM From: Royce J. Myers III <ufowatchdog@msn.com> Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 16:00:54 -0700 Fwd Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2003 09:02:07 -0400 Subject: Re: Sean Morton Ordered To Pay UFOWATCHDOG.COM >From: Charlette LeFevre <clefevre@oz.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 14:19:02 -0700 (MST) >Subject: Re: Sean Morton Ordered To Pay UFOWATCHDOG.COM Attorney Fees >>From: Royce J. Myers III - The UFO Watchdog <ufowatchdog@msn.com> >>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >>Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 22:47:59 -0700 >>Subject: Sean Morton Ordered To Pay UFOWATCHDOG.COM Attorney Fees >>JUDGE FINDS IN FAVOR OF UFOWATCHDOG.COM...AGAIN >What a scoop! >Royce Myers is now qualified to work for tabloid magazines. I expected nothing less than this petty comment. The simple fact of this matter some people miss or want to ignore is that Morton had a chance to prove his claims and couldn't do it. If someone claims to have "earned a doctorate degree" from a university, then it really is as simple as providing an official copy of the transcript, or a certified degree, or an official letter from the school. If the school has no records or says they've never heard of you, or, in this case, tell you that the institution isn't a university and does not issue any sort of degrees - well, it doesn't take two brain cells to figure that one out. But someone's fanatical belief will always override their logic in spite of all common sense and evidence. The lawsuit is now nothing more than an interesting reminder of why insanity reigns in this field and why the subject will continue to be treated as a joke. For the last ten-years of my involvement with this field in investigating genuine cases and hoaxes, I have seen far too many people continually shout that one-plus-one equals three. It doesn't matter how many times you show them it doesn't or how much proof you provide, people will believe what they want regardless of the facts. Even worse, they fail at doing any simple follow-up for themselves. These are the fools contributing to the decline of UFOlogy, the ones that feed tabloid magazines, the ones making the entire subject matter a complete mockery. Whatever your issue is LeFevre, facts are facts. All the cheap shots and petty crying in the world won't change them. I'm not going to respond to any more of this nonsense or fans defending their idol, or whatever else about Morton and his pathetic lawsuit. I know exactly what happened and so do the courts in California. The facts are on record and anyone can go look them up. I have more important and personal issues to take care of and won't waste anymore of my time with idiots. I want to thank all of you out there that have supported me and have sent their condolences. There are a few beacons of truth out there, and I don't envy them for the sheer insanity they have to wade through or the headaches they must endure. I only wish them luck in what they do and in their investigations - whether they prove or disprove. Regards, Royce J. Myers III
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 23 Re: Trauma Can Bring About UFO Experiences? - From: Sheryl Gottschall <gottscha@bigpond.net.au> Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2003 11:42:06 +1000 Fwd Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2003 10:05:14 -0400 Subject: Re: Trauma Can Bring About UFO Experiences? - >From: Eleanor White <eleanor@raven1.net> >To: eleanor@raven1.net >Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2003 13:19:51 -0400 >Subject: Trauma Can Bring About UFO Experiences? >Wow. Never heard this before: >http://www.bullyonline.org/related/paranorm.htm >"Trauma and paranormal experiences often go hand in hand, with >one triggering the other. Abduction or a close encounter will >often result in trauma, whilst trauma from a mundane terrestrial >cause (e.g. accident, violence, bullying and harassment) often >leads to paranormal experiences such as precognition, telepathy >and sometimes a UFO experience." Hi Eleanor, This wouldn't surprise me at all. It would certainly go a long way to explaining the paranormal history of experiencers. In the past I have been traumatised by serious illness and during a few years when I was at my most ill, I developed precognition, sensitivity to energies, a spontaneous ability to receive messages about others in text which would flash through my mind, and I would sense presences around me. I also found it difficult to be around large groups of people as I was very sensitive to their negative energies (their stress?). I ended up having a near death experience as well. All very curious as these show up in close encounter experiencers too. Intriguingly, most of these abilities disappeared as I recovered. My point is, high levels of stress can bring on paranormal experiences which I think it did in my situation. I believe this is because when humans are under extreme duress "higher faculties" can come into play. In Ken Ring's book, The Omega Project, he refers to studies done by Michael Shallis on electrically sensitive people. He found the trigger to events was stress. People who have UFO experiences can be electrically sensitive too. (interesting connection?) To add to this, Ken Ring found that people who had UFO experiences had been verbally, physically and/or emotionally abused as children as well as, or besides, other experiences.(eg. serious illness) In a large number of cases my own enquiries with experiencers has revealed they were under prolonged and heightened stress (beyond average stress levels) at some stage as children teenagers or young adults. Could this stress have been the trigger that opened the door to their paranormal experiences? Sheryl gottscha@bigpond.net.au (Australia)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 23 Re: Sean Morton Ordered To Pay From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net> Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2003 03:10:10 -0700 Fwd Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2003 11:15:57 -0400 Subject: Re: Sean Morton Ordered To Pay >From: Charlette LeFevre <clefevre@oz.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 14:19:02 -0700 (MST) >Subject: Re: Sean Morton Ordered To Pay UFOWATCHDOG.COM Attorney Fees >>From: Royce J. Myers III - The UFO Watchdog <ufowatchdog@msn.com> >>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >>Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 22:47:59 -0700 >>Subject: Sean Morton Ordered To Pay UFOWATCHDOG.COM Attorney Fees >>JUDGE FINDS IN FAVOR OF UFOWATCHDOG.COM...AGAIN >What a scoop! >Royce Myers is now qualified to work for tabloid magazines. >-Charlette LeFevre >Seattle UFO/Paranormal Group Uh, Charlotte? Try as I might, I cannot make a bit of sense out of your statement above. Tabloid magazines are forever spreading BS, while Royce does quite the opposite for all I can see. Are you suggesting that Sean David Morton is on the level? Just curious - Larry Hatch (not particularly paranormal)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 23 Re: UFOIN? - Roberts From: Andy Roberts <aj.roberts@blueyonder.co.uk> Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2003 13:24:59 +0100 Fwd Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2003 11:43:33 -0400 Subject: Re: UFOIN? - Roberts >From: Roy Hale - The Lost Haven >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 16:11:08 +0100 >Subject: Re: UFOIN? Pilgrims, Roy, for his own opaque reasons, continues to ask tedious questions about UFOIN on UpDates..... >Question on the above - What is an open minded Sceptic, and >where can I find one? Oh dear! Roy, _all_ sceptics are open-minded. >Would UFOIN in it's openess, care to >publish the names of those open minded sceptics it has worked >with? All the people involved with UFOIN are sceptics, simple as that. >Participants will benefit from working as part of a >professionalized, experienced investigation team whose only >goal will be truth, however mundane that may prove to be. >Access to a team of advisers, comprising scientists, MOD >officials, etc, is already in development. Question on the >above - Who are these MOD officials? UFOIN people frequently comminicate with MOD officials at the usual addresses. >One priority report will involve scientists and sceptics >assessing the strengths and weaknesses of UFO investigation to >provide UFOIN with guidelines on how to develop its objectives >to mutual advantage and furtherance of common goals. Question >on the above - What is the mutual advantage and common goals, >UFOIN have with sceptics? UFOIN _are_ sceptics Roy, as you well know. Hence your question is redundant. >An initial briefing paper introducing the topic will define >the questions that most need answering within that field. The >briefing paper will be circulated widely to ufology and beyond >to professional agencies that might assist in fulfilling its >objectives >Question on the above - Has anyone on this List ever received >this briefing paper? I doubt it very much. >3.1 The free flow of information shall not be restricted for >personal gain. UFOIN investigators will inform colleagues of >their work in progress and allow its use upon publication by >other responsible members of the UFO community. >Question on the above - How many results of solved cases has >UFOIN made available to Updates for close discussion on a World >wide and UK basis? In my previous email I outlined the numerous places where UFOIN work has been presented. Do you need further nannying Roy? Work these things out! Roy will now trot off, consult with his 'friends' about what other daft questions to ask in the hope of catching someone out and he'll be back in a few days. Shouldn't he be out solving hoaxes? There are plenty of them around at the moment..... I repeat that UFOIN is not corporate ufology and my views may well not (I sincerely hope they don't) reflect those other people involved in UFOIN. Happy Trails Andy
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 23 Re: Private Aircraft Damage Event - Velez From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2003 09:26:51 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2003 11:56:28 -0400 Subject: Re: Private Aircraft Damage Event - Velez >From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca> >To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 13:04:41 -0300 >Subject: Re: Private Aircraft Damage Event >>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> >>Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 13:08:27 -0400 >>Fwd Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 14:41:43 -0400 >>Subject: Re: Private Aircraft Damage Event - Velez >>>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker@earthlink.net> >>>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >>>Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 10:51:13 -0400 >>>Subject: Private Aircraft Damage Event [was: Filer's Files #30 -- 2003] >>>>From: Vicente-Juan Ballester Olmos <ballesterolmos@yahoo.es> >>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >>>>Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 10:11:29 +0200 (CEST) >>>>Subject: Re: Filer's Files #30 -- 2003 >>>>I would not put too much credence in this Latin-american >>>>aeronautical event, and it has been demolished or debunked by >>>>Mexican engineer and researcher Luis Ruiz Noguez. >>>>If there is someone interested, I can privately provide Mr >>>>Ruiz=ABs email address for consultation. >>>Thanks for your always-of-interest comment. Of course, I'd like >>>to know how to contact Noguez. I may have read Noguez's >>>commentary several years ago (but I could be confused about >>>whose commentary I read) and found them not completely >>>convincing. However, if he has written his report on that case >>>in English, I'd like to ask him for a copy. ><snip> >Boys, boys! >>I also clearly stated that the collision took place during a >>landing at Mexico City Airport. The 'case' that you and Vicente >>are discussing is completely unrelated to this collision case I >>have cited. >>The facts are as follows: >>Mexico City International Airport, July 28, 1994 Time: 9:55pm >>Airplane: DC-9 en route from Guadalajara Airport to Mexico City Airport >>Flight# 129 >>Passengers: 109 + crew >>Pilot reporting: Raymundo Cervantes Ruano >>In a taped interview of the Pilot, Capt. Ruano, reports; that at >>precisely 9:55 pm during a landing approach to Mexico City >>Airport, his aircraft collided with a 'UFO'. (unknown) > >>Due to the sudden collision, he was forced to make an emergency >>landing. Upon inspection of the aircraft the following damage >>was documented: the shock absorber had been torn off of one of >>the landing gear, (they didn't mention 'which' landing gear was >>affected) and there was also a dent on the bottom of the >>fuselage. >>The 'UFO' that flight# 129 collided with was observed and >>videotaped by Mexico City 'local' Victor Lopez Suarez. That, is >>the case I cited to Betsy. I have no idea what you guys are >>talking about. >>If any of our Mexican members could chime in with updated >>information it would be greatly appreciated. The case I was >>discussing has not been determined a hoax. I hope List readers >>don't begin to confuse the case I was referring to with this >>apparently solved one that Ray brought up. >>Just to put this thread back on the beam, the issue I had raised >>involved 'UFOs' and commercial aircraft safety. It is an issue >>that needs to be addressed _before_ something tragic happens. Hello Dandy Don, All, You wrote: >This one sounds bogus as well. Airlanes don't have shock >absorbers, they have oleos [from which vehicle shock absorbers >were born] which are integral to the main gear shaft of each >wheel. I don't know if it's "bogus" or not. The report details were copied from a videotaped interview with the pilot and two of Mexico City airports tower personnel. The Interview was conducted by Lee Elders back in 1995. It was a case that Jaime Maussan had provided. You can check it out for yourself. It appears in the Elder's video, "Voyagers of the Sixth Sun" from Gemeni III Video. It was a part of a series of videos documenting the Mexican flap of the 90's. I was hoping that Scott Corrales or another of the Latin American researchers could update us and shed some light on this disturbing pilot report. If something like this could happen at Mexico City Airport, it can happen anywhere. >That shaft immediatly above the wheel is the oleo. If >it's torn off then basically you don't have the wheel either so >it would have been impossible to land the aircraft without >tearing it up. Foibles inherent in the translation process (from Spanish to English) might explain the use of the term 'shock-absorber' as opposed to "oleo". You'd have to ask Lee Elders what term the pilot actually used as he gave his report in Spanish. Elders may have been making it easy on the viewer by using the more familiar term, "shock-absorber" rather than 'oleo' which is a descriptive name familiar only to those in the trade. Using the term 'shock-absorber' could have been nothing more than a simple consideration for the viewers. Not necessarily indicative of anything "bogus" or of an attempt to intentionally deceive. Captain Ruano, the pilot, is risking his career by reporting publicly. I think it is worth a look-see before dismissing it as "bogus" with any further inquiry. >It then would have been a really big deal. DC-9 crashes in Mexico >city. Apparently it _was_ a "big deal", Don. The pilot had to request and then execute an emergency landing because of the collision. That airplane hit 'something.' The pilot says it was a "UFO". We all need to know what that 'something' was. Hopefully we'll hear from one of our Mexican compadres. There have to be; accident reports, damage repair reports, and all kinds of paper trails and witnesses. There were 109 passengers on that bird. Somebody had to hear or feel something! Scott Corrales? What do you know of this one? Could you contact Maussan or Elders and make an inquiry about it? I don't know how to contact either party. I hope someone down your way does. I'd like to know what the outcome of this report was/is. Did anybody ever formally investigate this case? Maybe Maussan? Regards, John Velez
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 23 Re: UFO Crashes In South Africa - Herbiet From: Noel Herbiet <2orpheus6@telkomsa.net> Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2003 15:30:27 +0200 Fwd Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2003 12:00:12 -0400 Subject: Re: UFO Crashes In South Africa - Herbiet >From: Thierry Jonnaert <thierry.jonnaert@pandora.be> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2003 23:56:15 +0200 >Subject: UFO Crashes In South Africa >Time to hear more from the other side of the world... It's >right... Roswell is still very interesting... >South-Africa had several UFO crashes in the past - 3 in 5 years. >UFO-CRASH, 7-05-1989 >The South Africa army found the disc with two aliens and a human >inside! One of the aliens was injured - information from Dr. >Popovitsj. >Later... the flying disc, the aliens and human were taken to >Wright Patterson (US). Hi List, Thierry The above information is incorrect. No human remains were found in the crash wreckage of the disc, only "alleged" alien ones. However a chopper that was sent to secure and assist with the lifting of the object did crash due to electrical and mechanical failure. The crew was lost. Confusion between the two incidents is probably what has resulted in the above error. Noel Herbiet Research Coordinator ECUFOR South Africa
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 23 Re: South African Cases? - Hamilton From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22@fastmail.fm> Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2003 06:58:05 -0800 Fwd Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2003 18:02:50 -0400 Subject: Re: South African Cases? - Hamilton >From: Thierry Jonnaert <thierry.jonnaert@pandora.be> >To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2003 02:29:47 +0200 >Subject: South African Cases? >I'm collecting information about different UFO-cases in South >Africa - in the past - but also from Norway, Germany, Russia, >India, etc. Now it's about South-Africa >First I found the information about the Kalahari Desert case in >sources from Russia and I was putting this on the table, but >after some evaluations by Larry Hatch & Bill Hamilton, I started >to search for 'more information' and to think about the way Tony >Dodd (a former police officer and co-ordinator of Quest/formerly >the Yorkshire UFO Society) was treating this >investigation/information. But... Tony Dodd is also known for >investigations of important British UFO cases (Probably more >serious than the one case inf South Africa. And today? I looked into this when it was first made public and received a tape of James Van Gruenen when he was on a visit to the Southwest US. James was then touting he was a contactee. He was about as credible as Sean David Morton. Also, Cynthia Hind, one of SA's foremost investigators at the time, was one of the first to uncover the hoax. You may find further info at the UFO Afrinews website: http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/argento/183/afrinew.htm For info on Anthony Dodd's stance, I suggest you contact Graham Birdsall of Quest International, editor of UFO magazine in the UK. -Bill H
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 23 Re: Trauma Can Bring About UFO Experiences? - From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker@earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2003 11:42:49 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2003 18:06:50 -0400 Subject: Re: Trauma Can Bring About UFO Experiences? - >From: Sheryl Gottschall <gottscha@bigpond.net.au> >To: ufoupdates@sympatico.ca >Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2003 11:42:06 +1000 >Subject: Re: Trauma Can Bring About UFO Experiences? >>From: Eleanor White <eleanor@raven1.net> >>To: eleanor@raven1.net >>Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2003 13:19:51 -0400 >>Subject: Trauma Can Bring About UFO Experiences? >>Wow. Never heard this before: >>http://www.bullyonline.org/related/paranorm.htm >>"Trauma and paranormal experiences often go hand in hand, with >>one triggering the other. Abduction or a close encounter will >>often result in trauma, whilst trauma from a mundane terrestrial >>cause (e.g. accident, violence, bullying and harassment) often >>leads to paranormal experiences such as precognition, telepathy >>and sometimes a UFO experience." >This wouldn't surprise me at all. It would certainly go a long >way to explaining the paranormal history of experiencers. <snip> >Ken Ring found that people who had UFO >experiences had been verbally, physically and/or emotionally >abused as children as well as... Well, Sheryl, neither I nor any one on the staff of my Laboratory for Instrumented UFO Studies was ever abused as children, nor were our cameras, recording magnetometers and gravimeter, etc., :), so abused, yet we have observed, filmed, and recorded magnetic and gravitic effects from UFOS.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 24 Budd Hopkins' UFO Conference - October 11 2003 From: The Intruders Foundation <Ifinfo1@aol.com> Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2003 22:56:26 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2003 09:14:22 -0400 Subject: Budd Hopkins' UFO Conference - October 11 2003 Intruders Foundation Conference Announcement Sight Unseen Hosted by Wagner College Planetarium Saturday, October 11, 2003 The Planetarium at Wagner College Staten Island, New York "Sight Unseen" represents the culmination of 28 years of research into the UFO abduction phenomenon by legendary researcher and IF founder Budd Hopkins. Together with his wife, documentary filmmaker and journalist Carol Rainey, plus special guests to be announced, this conference will explore the latest profound and often disturbing findings of Budd's work, and how cutting-edge scientific discoveries are compelling mainstream scientists to seriously reconsider what was once perceived as a "fringe" topic. ASfter the conference, Budd and Carol will meet the audience and autograph copies of their latest book (available for purchase at the event) at a free wine and cheese reception. Space is limited to the first 100 paid registrants! Don't delay! Register today! REGISTRATION Advance Registration for IF members, seniors & students: $25.00 each Advance Registration for Non-members: $30.00 each Day-of-event registration (if available): $40 per person. Reservations must be made by telephone at 212-645-5278, and will be filled on a first-come, first-served basis. Only 100 reservations will be accepted! Payments must be made in advance to secure the reservation. Please complete the conference registration form, found on the IF Website, and send it together with your payment. Make checks payable to the Intruders Foundation, P.O. Box 30233, New York, NY 10011. Conference updates and registration forms are available on the IF Website at: www.intrudersfoundation.org/sight_unseen_event.html Check in regularly, as new information will be posted as it becomes available! We look forward to seeing you there! DIRECTIONS VERRAZANO BRIDGE - Follow 278 West to Exit 13. Follow the service road to the third traffic light; make a right onto Clove Rd. Make the first right onto Howard Ave. At the second traffic light, make a right onto Campus Rd. The planetarium parking lot will be about 300 feet on your left. Parking is free. GOETHALS BRIDGE (from NJ) - Follow 278 East to Exit 13 (Clove Rd/Richmond Rd/Hylan Blvd). At the first traffic light, make a left onto Clove Road. At the second traffic light, make a right onto Howard Ave. Go two traffic lights and make a right onto Campus Rd. The planetarium parking lot will be about 300 feet on your left. Parking is free. OUTERBRIDGE CROSSING (from NJ) - Take Route 440 North (West Shore Expressway) to 278 East. From this point, follow the directions above for "Goethals Bridge." STATEN ISLAND FERRY - A FREE shuttle bus from Wagner College will pick up attendees at the Ferry Terminal (passenger pick-up area) at 12:15 PM, and return to the Ferry Terminal at 5:30 PM. Space is limited to 25 attendees on a first-come, first-served basis. ---------- The Intruders Foundation Seminar Series is presented in the interests of open-minded scientific learning and the free exchange of research, ideas, and theories. IF makes no specific claims or endorsements regarding any materials, views, or subject matter presented by our guests. ---------- Want to know more about Budd Hopkins and his nonprofit scientific research organization, as well as past and future IF events? Please visit our website: www.intrudersfoundation.org ---------- IF respects your e-mail privacy. To be removed from future IF mailings, please send us a return e-mail with the word "REMOVE" in the subject heading.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 24 Re: An Invitation From Father Jack - Stevenson From: Colin Stevenson <colin@c2k2.fsworld.co.uk> Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2003 08:22:32 +0100 Fwd Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2003 09:28:53 -0400 Subject: Re: An Invitation From Father Jack - Stevenson >From: Terry Groff <terry@terrygroff.com> >To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2003 11:31:31 -0500 >Subject: Re: An Invitation From Father Jack >>From: Colin Stevenson <colin@c2k2.fsworld.co.uk> >>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >>Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2003 11:23:34 +0100 >>Subject: An Invitation From Father Jack >>Father Jack - the Alien - cordially invites all members of the >>UFO Updates List to a meeting for discussions of a pertinent >>nature in regard to Humankind's place in the Universe >>http://www.colsweb.com/jack.htm >>:-) >When will Father Ted, Father Dougal and Mrs. Doyle be >assimilated? >Father Terry >Anno Domini ad nauseum Fellow Father, will you have a nice cup of Tea? The other members of the team outlined seem not to qualify for assimilation because they are far too intelligent. Not withstanding that Father Ted qualifies by default. I cried when he left us although there is a conspiracy theory that he was actually assimilated and is assisting the Borg, from a cloud somewhere, as I type. Hope you signed the Petition for Jack's return to Earth? Mind you. It is believed that those copious mountains of Mrs. Doyle's sandwich's have been assimulated and chipped as a new lifeform. :-) Cheers, col May the good force be with you
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 25 Re: Mysteries And Anomalies On The Moon? - Cunha From: Pedro Luz Cunha <pplcunha@yahoo.com> Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2003 10:48:38 -0300 (ART) Fwd Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 18:24:56 -0400 Subject: Re: Mysteries And Anomalies On The Moon? - Cunha >From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2003 01:12:40 -0700 >Subject: Re: Mysteries And Anomalies On The Moon? >>From: Pedro Luz Cunha <pplcunha@yahoo.com> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >>Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2003 09:00:22 -0300 (ART) >>Subject: Mysteries And Anomalies On The Moon? >>Dear Friends, >>I am writing an article about anomalies on our Moon. I also >I heard talk of German bases in Antarctica, South America etc., >but never on the Moon. Can you tell us what brought that up? >What have you heard? Hello Larry, I am writing an article and found quite a few links in the internet point out to an article about this subject. The article seems to be a goof history fiction one. Anyway, as I am writing an article about Moon anomlies I am trying to show this side of the story too. You can read about it at: http://www.v-j-enterprises.com/moonger.html Pedro Cunha
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 25 UFO Spotting - Look! Up In The Sky! From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO <hbccufo@telus.net> Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2003 08:24:43 -0700 Fwd Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 18:27:40 -0400 Subject: UFO Spotting - Look! Up In The Sky! Hi List There is also a great image (drawing) to go along with this story which I will be posting to my site. ----- UFO Spotting Look! Up In The Sky! By Christine Boyd Weekly Editor East Kootenay Weekly March 17, 1999 A diamond-shaped spacecraft. Unearthly flashing lights. Shooting white beams. Five people aren't sure exactly what they saw hovering over Kimberley March 5, but they agree on one thing -- the experience was out of this world! A diamond-shaped UFO covered with flashing lights may have been responsible for the collapse of the McKim Theatre roof in Kimberley two weeks ago. That's the rumor setting the ski town a-buzz after at least five witnesses reported seeing strange lights drifting slowly above the Bavarian City around midnight March 5, 1999. Fuelling speculation were reports of an unearthly "light show" spotted directly over the theatre roof just a few hours before it's as-yet unexplained collapse. Flashing lights above Mckim. The first sighting of a UFO -- and that's "unidentified flying object," not necessarily "spaceship," all those interviewed were quick to point out -- seems to have been made between 10:00 p.m. and midnight March 5, 1999. Home care worker Gail Shay had just returned from work to her apartment in the Pioneer Lodge on Church Street. As she prepared to retire, she noticed unusually bright lights dancing above the roof of the theatre a few blocks away. At first, the 46-year old assumed that the beams were part of a McKim Theatre Society-sponsored light show. A second glance sent shivers up her spine. "It was like nothing I've ever seen before," said Shay. "At first, it seemed like there was a crisscrossing spotlight going up into the sky from the rood of the school. It was glimmering, like the northern lights. There were all these colors. "Then the light spread out like a mushroom cloud, exactly on the same spot as where the roof is gone." Aware that she might be in for some ribbing after going on record about her experience, Shay quickly added that she hadn't been drinking and isn't a spaceship buff. Although she considers herself somewhat unconventional and open to esoteric ideas, she was overwhelmed by the experience. The light spread out like a mushroom cloud, exactly on the same spot as where the roof is gone. After reeling through a list of possible explanations, Shay said she decided that she must be hallucinating and crawled quickly into bed. "I just kept thinking, 'Well, it's some unexplained natural phenomena' ... I can accept lots, but this was too much!" she said. "I just couldn't keep looking because my mind couldn't explain what I was seeing. I witnessed something, but I don't know what it was." Shaking knees in Townsite Approximately an hour later, 68 year old Ted Zawaski was shaken out a deep sleep by a phone call. On the other end of the line was a friend in Chapman Camp, incoherently insisting that Zawaski take a look at the sky. After a few minutes, Zawaski says he was able to make sense of the friend's words -- with flashing lights was drifting slowly over the trees west of town. Grabbing their coats, Zawaski and his wife ran outside. "The minute I saw it, I almost panicked, because it was like nothing I've seen on this earth," said Zawaski, who lived in Townsite. Excitedly swapping details with the friends in Chapman Camp, the Zawaskis watched the object from 12:15 to 12:40 a.m. when it drifted out of sight behind the trees. "What do I think it is? I don't know. I can tell you what I don't think it was..." he said. The quartet ruled out every conventional explanation they could think of for the phenomena -- it was moving too slowly and too low to the ground to be a plane or helicopter and had too many extremely bright flashing lights to be a hot air balloon, said Zawaski. Zawaski admitted to being a bit of a UFO aficionado himself, and has spotted four over the past 30 years -- in Austria, Norway, near Calgary and Kimberley. However, the other three witnesses claimed that they had never seen one before and weren't looking. Man-made, not spacemen! In fast his two friends from Chapman camp only agreed to comment if they could remain anonymous, due to fear of public ridicule. "Your kind of laughing at the whole thing yourself," said Mrs. "X." "people make these little comments like, 'Well, were you drinking last night?" In fact, Mrs. X was stone sober and done a last tour of the house before retiring for the night when she, like Shay, noticed a bright light illuminating the house from the outside. Expecting to see a bright star, she glanced outside and then stood petrified. "It was large and round like a car light, so I thought it was a plane that was going to be landing," she said. As she observed with dawning amazement, the "plane" hovered unmoving for five minutes, bright white rays of light shooting to each side. Then the lights changed. The minute I saw it, I almost panicked because it was like nothing I've seen on this earth. "It was throwing out quite a few different lights, rotating around it. There were definitely four colors that I recall and maybe two others ones," she recalled. "Then, of course, I ran in and called my husband -- 'Hey! You've got to see this!" Armed with a pair of binoculars Mr. X was the only witness to perceive more detail on the object. He reported seeing a faceted shape like a diamond in a ring, with an inverted cone underneath. Lights played constanly about its surface, but the shimmered like lights in a fog, not with the concentrated energy of a bulb, he said. "It definitely wasn't a star," he said. "Stars twinkle -- they don't give off dazzling light like that. It was to brilliant and big for a star." Mr. X believes it was probably a man-made object, but is at a loss to explain it. "I don't believe in flying saucers and little green men, space men, and all that stuff, I don't believe in it," he said. "I was the first to 'fooh-fooh!' all that stuff when other people talked about seeing UFOs. I think there's a logical explanation." Back in Townsite, Zawaski shook with excitement, too awed to take his eyes off the object -- which he now regrets not photographing. If it had been any closer, I would have had a heart attack. When I hear reports of other people experiencing these things from 20 meters away -- I don't think I'd survive. He had to take a tranquilizer to fall asleep after and couldn't help constantly glancing over his shoulder the next morning while skiing at the Kimberley Nordic Track. "It wasn't anything I've ever seen anywhere," said Zawaski, adding that the experience cured him of and desire to see UFOs in the future. "I don't ever want to see another one: it's too devastating. "If it had been any closer, I would have had a heart attack. When I hear reports of other people experiencing these things from 20 meters away -- don't think I'd survive." Spaceship not ruled out. While Cranbrook Regional Airport doesn't have radar, nothing unusual was reported that night by staff or incoming pilots, according to it's flight services station. However, Kimberley RCMP received several telephone calls that night about the phenomena, although they were unable to verify the sighting. The rumor was even raised among members of School District No. 6 at an emergency meeting called to discuss the collapsed theatre roof, which is attached to McKim Middle School. "We're not about to speculate on the cause of the collapse, but we've heard all kinds of ideas, including UFO sightings on Friday night," said George Watson, school district director . He did admit last week, with tongue firmly planted in cheek, that the work crew had not yet found anything in the wreckage to rule out alien spacecraft as a cause. "We haven't yet, but maybe when we get inside that building, we'll find something: we could find anything! ----- Take care Brian Vike, Director HBCC UFO Research Canadian Toll Free UFO Hotline 1 866 262 1989 - Free call. Editor: Canadian Communicator - Paranormal Magazine email: hbccufo@telus.net Website: http://www3.telus.net/public/wilbur8/hbcc_ufo_research.htm
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 25 Re: Virus on Rampage! - Ledger From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2003 12:25:45 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 18:29:34 -0400 Subject: Re: Virus on Rampage! - Ledger >From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy@charter.net> >To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 19:47:11 -0700 >Subject: Re: Virus on Rampage! >>From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >>Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 08:59:48 -0700 (PDT) >>Subject: Re: Virus on Rampage! >>>From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net> >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >>>Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 11:54:04 -0700 >>>Subject: Re: Virus on Rampage! >><snip> >>>One careless person, who has your email address in his/her >>>address book is all it takes. Once copied, SOBIG will spoof your >>>address as the 'SENDER: ' of the viruses sent to 3rd and 4th >>>parties, to further disguise itself. >>Hi Larry, >>I'm glad I'm not the only one. These idiotic attachments are >>gobbling away at my disk-space. I've scanned one using Yahoo's >>Norton application, and it was infected. ><snip> >Hi Mac, Larry , Listerions. >This is ridiculous! one I too have gotten these idiotic e- >mails,and attachments. I takes forever to clean out the >messeges, and i have better things to do. Arragh! Hi all, I got wiped out and I'm on a Mac. Lost my address book, all my emails, my Netscape is toast and I lost all my save emails. I'm rebuilding my address book slowly. Best, Don
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 25 Re: An Invitation From Father Jack - Stevenson From: Colin Stevenson <colin@c2k2.fsworld.co.uk> Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 03:12:02 +0100 Fwd Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 19:10:43 -0400 Subject: Re: An Invitation From Father Jack - Stevenson >From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2003 01:09:59 -0700 >Subject: Re: An Invitation From Father Jack >>From: Colin Stevenson <colin@c2k2.fsworld.co.uk> >>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >>Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2003 11:23:34 +0100 >>Subject: An Invitation From Father Jack >>Father Jack - the Alien - cordially invites all members of the >>UFO Updates List to a meeting for discussions of a pertinent >>nature in regard to Humankind's place in the Universe >>http://www.colsweb.com/jack.htm >>:-) >>Col >Hello Col: >I regret that I will be unable to attend due to distance and >time considerations. >Otherwise, <ROFLMOL> Hello Larry sorry to hear you could not attend and hope you did not do any damage to your floor covering or destroy any 'mini Alien lifeforms' in or on it. :-) col
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 25 Re: UFO Crashes In South Africa - Maccabee From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com> Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 12:09:26 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 19:18:58 -0400 Subject: Re: UFO Crashes In South Africa - Maccabee >From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker@earthlink.net> >To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 18:01:01 -0400 >Subject: Re: UFO Crashes In South Africa >>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >>Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 18:43:21 -0400 >Subject: Re: UFO Crashes In South Africa >Thanks for the other information you provide, but you >incorrectly say: >>Note: a laser is a maser that operates at infrared or >>visible (or ultraviolet) frequencies (10^14 Hz for example) >>whereas the maser operates at microwave frequencies (10^9 Hz for >>example). >You surely must know - as a physicist who worked on a very hot >LASER (an acronym for LIGHT Amplification through Stimulated >Emission of Radiation - for those who don't know) for the Navy - >that MASER is an acronym for MICROWAVE Amplification through >Stimulated Emission of Radiation, and that such a device is >(contrary to your statement) via definition-by-acronym not a >laser, involving, as it does, wavelengths that are substantially >shorter than what we normally call light (even UV). So, a MASER >cannot factually be called a laser. >Of course, the two devices are analogous, but they clearly are >not synonymous. >Shall we dismiss it as a slip wherein you intended that a MASER >is a special-case LASER? :) I suspect that if you presented my statement to a physicist who is familiar with lasers and masers he/she would agree with what I said. I was speaking/writing in the context that the physics involved is essentially the same. Both rely upon stimulated emission of radiation.. SER... which occurs in both MASER (microwave amplification by stimulated emission of radiation) and LASER (light amplification by stimulated emission of radiation). The basic theory about stimulated emission was discovered by Einstein nearly 100 years ago. However it wasn't until the early 1950 that Charles Townes managed to apply the theory to amplification of microwave radiation. Hence the MASER came first. Then in the latter '50s there was speculation and theoretical analysis that suggested the same mechanism could occur at wavelengths as short as light. Theodore Maiman proved it would work in 1960. Thus a "LASER" was a "MASER" that operated at light frequencies. In the years since the growth of laser technology has far exceeded MASER technology and most people have forgotten that there was a predecessor to the laser, a predecessor that proved that it was possible to make use of Einstein's discovery. I am, of course, aware of the difference in frequency/wavelength and indicated that difference in my statement.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 25 Re: Sean Morton Ordered To Pay UFOWATCHDOG.COM From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 09:24:51 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 20:20:22 -0400 Subject: Re: Sean Morton Ordered To Pay UFOWATCHDOG.COM >From: Royce J. Myers III <ufowatchdog@msn.com> >To: ufoupdates@sympatico.ca >Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 16:00:54 -0700 >Subject: Re: Sean Morton Ordered To Pay UFOWATCHDOG.COM Attorney Fees >>From: Charlette LeFevre <clefevre@oz.net> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >>Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 14:19:02 -0700 (MST) >>Subject: Re: Sean Morton Ordered To Pay UFOWATCHDOG.COM Attorney Fees >>>From: Royce J. Myers III - The UFO Watchdog <ufowatchdog@msn.com> >>>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >>>Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 22:47:59 -0700 >>>Subject: Sean Morton Ordered To Pay UFOWATCHDOG.COM Attorney Fees >>JUDGE FINDS IN FAVOR OF UFOWATCHDOG.COM...AGAIN >>What a scoop! >>Royce Myers is now qualified to work for tabloid magazines. >I expected nothing less than this petty comment. The simple fact >of this matter some people miss or want to ignore is that Morton >had a chance to prove his claims and couldn't do it. Hi Royce, People who would defend self-serving low-lifes like Morton are only exposing their own naivete and gullibility. Don't give it a second thought. The vast majority is able to see (with eyes that you helped to open) what a pariah he is. And thank you for that. I can't think of anyone else who was able to take on and do the work you did with as much thoughtfulness, responsibility and class. You are to be commended for a job very well done. I can only speak for myself, but you'll be missed when you're gone, Royce. Ufology is losing a voice that has done nothing buy try to keep everything honest and above board. We need _more_ not less people like Royce J. Myers III. My 2 cents, John Velez
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 25 Re: Trauma Can Bring About UFO Experiences? - Velez From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 10:20:33 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 20:25:05 -0400 Subject: Re: Trauma Can Bring About UFO Experiences? - Velez >From: Sheryl Gottschall <gottscha@bigpond.net.au> >To: ufoupdates@sympatico.ca >Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2003 11:42:06 +1000 >Subject: Re: Trauma Can Bring About UFO Experiences? >>From: Eleanor White <eleanor@raven1.net> >>To: eleanor@raven1.net >>Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2003 13:19:51 -0400 >>Subject: Trauma Can Bring About UFO Experiences? >>Wow. Never heard this before: >>http://www.bullyonline.org/related/paranorm.htm >>"Trauma and paranormal experiences often go hand in hand, with >>one triggering the other. Abduction or a close encounter will >>often result in trauma, whilst trauma from a mundane terrestrial >>cause (e.g. accident, violence, bullying and harassment) often >>leads to paranormal experiences such as precognition, telepathy >>and sometimes a UFO experience." >This wouldn't surprise me at all. It would certainly go a long >way to explaining the paranormal history of experiencers. >In the past I have been traumatised by serious illness and >during a few years when I was at my most ill, I developed >precognition, sensitivity to energies, a spontaneous ability to >receive messages about others in text which would flash through >my mind, and I would sense presences around me. I also found it >difficult to be around large groups of people as I was very >sensitive to their negative energies (their stress?). I ended up >having a near death experience as well. All very curious as >these show up in close encounter experiencers too. Intriguingly, >most of these abilities disappeared as I recovered. >My point is, high levels of stress can bring on paranormal >experiences which I think it did in my situation. I believe this >is because when humans are under extreme duress "higher >faculties" can come into play. >In Ken Ring's book, The Omega Project, he refers to studies done >by Michael Shallis on electrically sensitive people. He found >the trigger to events was stress. People who have UFO >experiences can be electrically sensitive too. (interesting >connection?) >To add to this, Ken Ring found that people who had UFO >experiences had been verbally, physically and/or emotionally >abused as children as well as, or besides, other >experiences.(eg. serious illness) In a large number of cases my >own enquiries with experiencers has revealed they were under >prolonged and heightened stress (beyond average stress levels) >at some stage as children teenagers or young adults. >Could this stress have been the trigger that opened the door to >their paranormal experiences? Hello Sheryl, Psychological testing that was carried out using UFO abduction experiencers for subjects, by highly trained, credentialed clinicians like Dr. Aphrodite Clamar and Dr. John Mack, (to name but two,) clearly shows that _none_ of the individuals tested were suffering from any kind of psychosis, abnormal or otherwise, or mental disorder/condition that they could discern. Trauma? We _all_ have experienced 'trauma' in our lives at one time or another. If you live and breath you have experienced a 'trauma' in one form or another. Blaming 'trauma' for UFO sightings is like blaming the common cold. We all get those too but as with 'trauma' there is no _proven_ connection. In spite of what 'Ken Ring' (whoever he is) claims in his book. To the contrary, as I have stated above, the 'real case' happens to be that those reporting UFO sightings/encounters show no sign of mental illness or disorder. That's a _major_ finding by real scientists (as opposed to self-proclaimed 'experts') and one that begs to be acknowledged and dealt with. Katarina was right in her estimation of this suggestion regarding the role of trauma in UFO sightings/encounters. I have no idea who 'Ken Ring' is. I don't see "Dr." before or after his name. His credentials and expertise are questionable at best. I do know that "Dr." John Mack and "Dr." Aphrodite Clamar have both reported that the folks they have tested proved to be ok. They made no mention anywhere in their reports that pre- existing 'trauma' may have been responsible for the abduction or sighting reports. How about we deal with that? Rather than some _unfounded speculation_ from an unknown (Ken Ring?) whose only 'credentials' are; that he 'wrote a book.' You know what they say about a room full of monkeys hammering away at typewriters and Shakespeare don't you? Same principle applies to Ken Ring... whoever he is. ;) Regards, John Velez
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 25 Kelowna British Columbia 08-03-03 Sighting From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO <hbccufo@telus.net> Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2003 20:20:35 -0700 Fwd Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 20:29:17 -0400 Subject: Kelowna British Columbia 08-03-03 Sighting Kelowna, British Columbia Date: August 3, 2003 Time: 8:30 p.m. I had a telephone call from a wonderful lady who lives in Kelowna, British Columbia. She called as she read article in the Kelowna Capital Newspaper about a fellow who was requesting witnesses to a sighting come forward. She told me she saw something that was pretty peculiar around 8:30 p.m. She told me it was remarkable to her, so much so that she wanted her neighbors around to discuss what she saw but no one was in the area at the time. She also believes that she may have been the only one who witnessed this object, but of course at this time she hasn't heard from anyone else yet who may have saw it. The witness went on to say it was a perfectly round metallic silver object moving across the daylight sky. The lady also said it was round apposed to being cylindrical or egg shaped and stressed it was as round as a ball. The object was moving in a easterly direction and she got the impression it was very, very distant. It moved at a steady pace, it didn't stop, it didn't hover it just kept moving along through the sky until she lost sight of it. She also heard no sound coming from it. No trail or tail was witnessed. She gave a guess at what the size of the object may have been. She took a guess and estimated it may have been the size of a nickel, or at least close after holding out her hand at arms length. She estimates she observed it for approx: 2 minutes before she lost site of it when it went behind the hills. Thank you very much to the witness for the report. Brian Vike, Director HBCC UFO Research Canadian Toll Free UFO Hotline 1 866 262 1989 - Free call. Phone/Fax 1 250 845 2189 Editor: Canadian Communicator - Paranormal Magazine email: hbccufo@telus.net Website: http://www3.telus.net/public/wilbur8/hbcc_ufo_research.htm
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 25 Some Questions From: Thierry Jonnaert <thierry.jonnaert@pandora.be> Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 01:37:51 +0200 Fwd Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 20:41:09 -0400 Subject: Some Questions Hi List, Is there a list of UFO 'hoaxes' later discovered not not be hoaxes? Has it happened? Could it happen? Where do we find more information about all this? Which are the criteria that most Western ufologists are using to put the label Hoax on a case? I'd like to compare them with the criteria of ufologists and scientists in Russia, France and Belgium. I know better the ideas and criteria of Dr. ir. Gennadi Talalajevsjki, Prof. Dr.Rem Varlamov, Dr. ir. Alexander Logvin, P. Stonehill, Prof. Zigel, Dr. Joeri Gridin, etc. But... it's possible they are the same... but they explain it in a different way!? Or... there could be some differences!? And... Could prejudices not influence some conclusions? Could some prejudices not lead to the wrong classification? What about documents? What are the criteria for ufologists to decide that documents were falsified etc.!? How can they be sure of this? This is only a little part of the research... I will not achieve this directly... I will ask the same to Alexander Beletsky and Dr. Vladimir Rubtsov of RIAP, UKRAINE) I wrote already in the past. The same questions I will send to other investigators of UFOs in different countries (France, Russia, Brazil, The Netherlands,Belgium, South Africa, Spain). all the ideas - without prejudices - are much appreciated. Even when the results and ideas or criteria are different,...this will help us to make the research more complete. (English is my third language...sorry for the errors) Thanks... regards, Thierry Jonnaert
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 25 Re: UFOIN? - Ouellet From: Eric Ouellet <ouellet6800@rogers.com> Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 20:25:19 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 20:53:43 -0400 Subject: Re: UFOIN? - Ouellet >From: Roy Hale - The Lost Haven <roy@thelosthaven.co.uk> >To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2003 23:55:54 +0100 >Subject: Re: UFOIN? - Hale >>From: Terry Groff <terry@terrygroff.com> >>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >>Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2003 17:39:46 -0500 >>Subject: Re: UFOIN? >>Skeptics are not necessarily "non-believers" but rather they >>approach each individual event with no preconceptions of what >>actually occurred. To me, this is a scientific ideal. >Do sceptics have a believe system too? Which is, they do not >believe ET visitations are possible, am I correct? And do you >think this belief could get in the way of their judgement on UFO >cases and sightings, or is this too much of an irrational >thought on my part? >Could you give me a timeline, as to when you think Science will >solve the UFO mystery? Hello, There are several "kinds" of skeptics, but as far as I know they are all "believers." The most common belief among the least sophisticated skeptics is called "scientism". It is an ideological perspective about science that goes back to the 19th century. Scientism is essentially a view that equates science with human and technical progress, and it emerged in reaction to the Romantic Movement of the 19th century. The Romantic Movement was perceived by some as "threatening" humanity to go back to the "Dark Ages." August Comte was probably the most extreme example of this ideology. Scientism stopped to be a major ideology in Europe after the First World War, as it became tragically obvious that science and progress were not necessarily related. In North America, scientism was "debunked" later during the 1960s, where the war in Vietnam, industrial pollution, and experiments a la Dr. Spock (the famous child psychologist) proved that science and progress were, again, not necessarily related. Many skeptics, nowadays, constitute the rear guard of this dying ideology. Another skeptic belief, but more sophisticated, is "rationalism." This belief is mostly an offshoot of one school of thought in philosophy of science, known as the Vienna Circle and mostly active during the 1920s and 1930s. Their main view was that science should have a consistent method based on a language and categories that would be similar to mathematics. This would allow, they believed, the production of universally valid knowledge. In other words, they were trying to develop a unified epistemology for all sciences. Famous people in that school of thought are Otto Neurath and Karl Popper. With the advent of the sociology of science, starting during the 1950s, sociologists started to study what scientists really do, instead of what they should do. With time it became clear that this type of philosophy of science was irrelevant. One key discovery made by sociologists of science is that the validity of scientific knowledge, like any other form of knowledge, is socially negotiated and fundamentally embedded in a power structure. In other words, a valid knowledge is one that is sponsored by people in position of authority and power. The second discovery is that scientists do not follow closely the canonical "scientific method" in their work. Scientists, like ufologists, use their gut feelings to pursue certain leads, they exclude other leads because they are not "esthetic" or not "in" enough, etc. (This is a key issue to understand why most researches done on UFOs are considered invalid, irrespective of how much closely the ufologists have followed the "scientific method".) The skeptics of that kind are also waging a rear guard battle. What they do could be qualified as "political epistemology" (i.e. through the ideology of rationalism they attempt to dictate what is worthy of being called knowledge from what is not). I hope this is helpful and not too jargonsish. Regards, Eric Ouellet, Ph.D.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 25 Re: A Correction To Dwight Connelly's MUFON From: Glennys Mackay <glenmack@pacific.net.au> Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 10:34:41 +1000 Fwd Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 21:00:10 -0400 Subject: Re: A Correction To Dwight Connelly's MUFON >From: A. J. Gevaerd - Revista UFO <gevaerd@ufo.com.br> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>, >Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 09:59:22 -0300 >Subject: A Correction To Dwight Connelly's MUFON Journal Article >I have not a B.A. in Chemistry nor any other degree. >I entered 4 Chemistry graduation courses in 4 different >universities but never graduated due to my decision to quit the >field to devote full time to Ufology. However, even after >quiting, I made a living for a few yers as a teacher of Organic >and General Chemistry in several high schools in many cities. >And eventually substituted for some professors at universities >in Campo Grande (MS), as a favor to them. Hi Ademar, Regardless of what your qualifications etc., we still love you just the same, and certainly enjoy your sense of humour. Sorry we could not have had you visit us in Brisbane, but perhaps next time. The symposium was very successful - excellent speakers Blessings, Mum (No. 2) Glennys
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 25 Re: Trauma Can Bring About UFO Experiences? - From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 18:10:48 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 23:50:40 -0400 Subject: Re: Trauma Can Bring About UFO Experiences? - >From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 10:20:33 -0400 >Subject: Re: Trauma Can Bring About UFO Experiences? <snip> >I have no idea who 'Ken Ring' is. I don't see "Dr." before or >after his name. His credentials and expertise are questionable >at best. How do you know his credentials are "questionable at best" if you have "no idea" who he is? I've read Dr. Ring's book and found it very interesting. In no way does he imply that abductees are "psycho" or otherwise unhinged. Rather, he relates the results of a very involved statistical study that seems to indicate that abductees fit a certain psychological profile. >How about we deal with that? Rather than some _unfounded >speculation_ from an unknown (Ken Ring?) whose only >'credentials' are; that he 'wrote a book.' The data in Ring's "The Omega Project" are certainly contestable, but not at all unfounded. I think he has an interesting perspective to add to the debate. I recommend reading what he has to say instead of passionately denouncing him. ===== >Mac Tonnies (macbot@yahoo.com) Explore MTVI @ http://www.mactonnies.com Posthuman Blues: http://posthumanblues.blogspot.com (daily blog)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 25 Re: Virus on Rampage! - Vike From: Brian Vike <hbccufo@telus.net> Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 18:15:24 -0700 Fwd Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 23:54:53 -0400 Subject: Re: Virus on Rampage! - Vike >From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2003 12:25:45 -0400 >Subject: Re: Virus on Rampage! <snip> >I got wiped out and I'm on a Mac. Lost my address book, all my >emails, my Netscape is toast and I lost all my save emails. >I'm rebuilding my address book slowly. Hi List Gosh sorry to hear, Don, that you got wiped out. This certainly is a nasty virus and I have had so many I started something which stops the virus coming into my email box. Maybe it might be an idea to try if you have not thought of it. My internet server is Telus. We have three email accounts but it is mine, hbccufo@telus.net which is being nailed badly. So I head over to Telus, go to my web mail and read my mail online. Then I check each of the emails I do not want, hit delete and they are gone, then move quickly and download my and my wife's mail to our computer. So I leave open a window to keep checking my email on line. It really has helped big time, when one is getting these darn things coming in constantly one has to try anything. Anyway, if you haven't thought of this, it really is worth the try, and saves these crappy things hitting your computer. Take care Brian
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 25 Story Behind UK UFO Video Hoax From: Bill Chalker <bill_c@bigpond.com> Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 12:21:02 +1000 Fwd Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 23:56:02 -0400 Subject: Story Behind UK UFO Video Hoax Looks like the story behind the hoax is emerging: http://www.rense.com/general40/ufohoax.htm Seems like a rather expensive effort! Regards, Bill Chalker
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 25 Re: Revealing Scully's Scientific Source? - From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 22:45:49 -0400 Fwd Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 23:57:51 -0400 Subject: Re: Revealing Scully's Scientific Source? - >From: Chris Evans <chrisevans@zoominternet.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2003 16:51:59 -0400 >Subject: Revealing Scully's Scientific Source? >Revealing Frank Scully's Chief Scientific Source >by Chris Evans >Firstly, a round of thanks and applause for Earl Bruce-Knapp, >who has so professionally, persistently and patiently managed >this mail list... hats off!!! >I think it was July of 2002 when I finalized the material in my >book, relating to Frank Scully's revelations on recovered >saucers and alien bodies. Honestly and admittedly, in the rush >of a massive down-sizing of the manuscript after my return move >from Florida, I somehow had forgotten to include the segment >aimed at revealing the identity of Scully's chief scientific >informer. (Go ahead - name calling and hoots at the author are >certainly encouraged here, considering such a daft oversight.) <snip> O.K., Chris, I'll take you up on that, but not for that reason. I went to your website, and you declare that the informant of Scully was Dr. Walter Russell (1871-1963)! After rambling boringly on with a fanfare prelude of irrelevant things, sounding like a carnival 'barker', you make the muddled declaration: "Further, while noting those incredible influences and trends that have arisen from the work of that astounding visionary and trend setter of the last century: the disciplined, humble, pervasive genius, and member of the Twilight Club who visited Frank Scully in those days. For those who can accept it from someone other than Scully himself, that visitor and mystery scientist was the eminent Dr. Walter Russell (1871-1963)." Eminent? In my opinion, kook and pseudoscientist warmed over, with an ego bigger than the palace he lived in for so many years! Oh yes, I read his teachings, years ago. Humble, you say! Sure! Walter Russell was so humble that he and his wife taught that they were the reincarnations of the great Chinese Taoist philosophers, Lao Tzu and Lao-Tse! How contradictory of Taoist philosophy! Oh yes, velly humble indeed! Give us a bleak, Chlis! :o) In my opinion, if Walter Russell was Scully's source, that lends no credit whatsoever to Scully's BEHIND THE FLYING SAUCERS. Ray Stanford "You know my method. It is founded upon the observance of trifles." -- Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 25 Re: Kelowna British Columbia 08-03-03 Sighting - From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy@charter.net> Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 20:09:30 -0700 Fwd Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 23:59:52 -0400 Subject: Re: Kelowna British Columbia 08-03-03 Sighting - >From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO <hbccufo@telus.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2003 20:20:35 -0700 >Subject: Kelowna British Columbia 08-03-03 Sighting >Kelowna, British Columbia >Date: August 3, 2003 >Time: 8:30 p.m. >I had a telephone call from a wonderful lady who lives in >Kelowna, British Columbia. She called as she read article in the >Kelowna Capital Newspaper about a fellow who was requesting >witnesses to a sighting come forward. She told me she saw >something that was pretty peculiar around 8:30 p.m. <snip> >the area at the time. She also believes that she may have been >the only one who witnessed this object, but of course at this >time she hasn't heard from anyone else yet who may have saw it. >The witness went on to say it was a perfectly round metallic >silver object moving across the daylight sky. The lady also said >it was round apposed to being cylindrical or egg shaped and >stressed it was as round as a ball. The object was moving in a >easterly direction and she got the impression it was very, very >distant. >It moved at a steady pace, it didn't stop, it didn't hover it >just kept moving along through the sky until she lost sight of >it. She also heard no sound coming from it. No trail or tail was >witnessed. She gave a guess at what the size of the object may >have been. She took a guess and estimated it may have been the >size of a nickel, or at least close after holding out her hand >at arms length. She estimates she observed it for approx: 2 >minutes before she lost site of it when it went behind the >hills. <snip> Hello, all, Brian. Some months ago, I shared an experience with Don Ledger about a Fire I worked in Hell's Canyon On the Oregon/Idaho border. I was co-piloting my old DC-7,(Hell's Canyon was one of those places where it was more comfortable to be a Co-Pilot.-you didn't have to look out side the airplane.) TCAS is a anti collison system that works on RADAR and the Transponders in Aircraft that have them, respond to the RADAR inquiry. The Lead Plane, or Bird Dog-to you Canadians (I'd rather work with a Bird Dog never had any of those guys actively try to kill me.) Kept getting iquiry and responses on the TCAS in the bottom of Hell's Canyon-deeper than the Grand Canyon and , in spots, not so wide, there was nothing seen but the Source kept following us. Then,suddenly it was gone, just gone. Anyway my Point: with all the fire in the area of Kelowna (I love that Okanagan Valley by the way.) and Aerial Activity, even at 8:30 due to the ongoing fires there someone may have seen the Whatsit from the Air.Or, had odd TCAS hits that may due to Microwave transmissions from the Whatever. This could be interesting. Also my heart goes out to the folks in Kelowona, got friends there. GT McCoy
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 26 Re: Virus on Rampage! - Ledger From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 23:46:04 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 06:22:12 -0400 Subject: Re: Virus on Rampage! - Ledger >From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> >To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 20:04:16 -0400 >Subject: Re: Virus on Rampage! >>From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >>Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2003 12:25:45 -0400 >>Subject: Re: Virus on Rampage! ><snip> >>I got wiped out and I'm on a Mac. Lost my address book, all my >>emails, my Netscape is toast and I lost all my save emails. >>I'm rebuilding my address book slowly. >I'm going the number of infected messages in the hundreds over >the past several days in my Inbox. They're cleaned by my AV >software before I see them, but it's still a pain. I'm now using my ISP's email browser. It's a little cumbersome but I can access from where ever I am by logging on to their website. a good way to eliminate spam too. I can delete them before downloading them. Don
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 26 Greetings From A Newbie From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby@aol.com> Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 00:53:03 EDT Fwd Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 06:30:45 -0400 Subject: Greetings From A Newbie Greetings and all due respect. My name's Greg Boone, have been researching UFOs for over 2 decades. Grew up in the historic Hudson Valley and yes I've seen my share of odd craft up close. As of last year I finished about 6 years working with the former PARASCOPE magazine here on America Online. I've had the priviledge of meeting and interviewing several of you and have admiration and fondness for your works and sacrifices. Although I've come to an end in my research of the matter I hope to be of some assistance to you all where ever I can. At present I pitch in to help good ol' Jeff Rense now and then. I have a long happy 25 year career in news, multi-media and now am back having fun writing novels, comics, animation/film/tv. In the years I've studied this phenomenon it literally came 360 degrees and I found out ironically my answers were literally in my own backyard. Literally. I will offer this piece of advice which most of you know already. You _know_ you're on the trail of the truth when your opponent uses insults, invalidations, arrogance and character assassination. Why? Because if they had true facts to dispute you, they'd use em'. I think it was a western or a comedy where one character said, "Insulting a guy eh? Whatsa' matter, run outta facts?" Greg aka formerly Host PSCP Evol
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 26 Re: Kelowna British Columbia 08-03-03 Sighting - From: Brian Vike <hbccufo@telus.net> Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 21:30:34 -0700 Fwd Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 06:37:19 -0400 Subject: Re: Kelowna British Columbia 08-03-03 Sighting - >From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy@charter.net> >To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 20:09:30 -0700 >Subject: Re: Kelowna British Columbia 08-03-03 Sighting >>From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO <hbccufo@telus.net> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >>Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2003 20:20:35 -0700 >>Subject: Kelowna British Columbia 08-03-03 Sighting >>Kelowna, British Columbia >Hello, all, Brian. >Some months ago, I shared an experience with Don Ledger about >a Fire I worked in Hell's Canyon On the Oregon/Idaho border. >I was co-piloting my old DC-7,(Hell's Canyon was one of those >places where it was more comfortable to be a Co-Pilot.-you >didn't have to look out side the airplane.) TCAS is a anti >collison system that works on RADAR and the Transponders in >Aircraft that have them, respond to the RADAR inquiry. >The Lead Plane, or Bird Dog-to you Canadians (I'd rather work >with a Bird Dog never had any of those guys actively try to kill >me.) Kept getting iquiry and responses on the TCAS in the bottom >of Hell's Canyon-deeper than the Grand Canyon and , in spots, >not so wide, there was nothing seen but the Source kept >following us. Then,suddenly it was gone, just gone. >Anyway my Point: with all the fire in the area of Kelowna (I >love that Okanagan Valley by the way.) and Aerial Activity, even >at 8:30 due to the ongoing fires there someone may have seen the >Whatsit from the Air.Or, had odd TCAS hits that may due to >Microwave transmissions from the Whatever. >This could be interesting. >Also my heart goes out to the folks in Kelowona, got friends >there. GT & List Never sure what anyone sees for sure. I guess we just try to do the best with what is given to us. The strangest part, is that there have been an overwhelming amount of sighting reports coming out of the areas which are on fire. Everything you can think of has and is being reported, from triangles, silver balls, or spheres, bright white lights, but doing some crazy maneuvers - you name it, it is being reported. Another thing is that since the fires started, the lower half of B.C. has been dead in the way of sighting reports coming from my area. Something to think about. For those who may have missed this one sighting on July 27/28, 2003. I now have 151 witnesses to this event, I have talked with most of them over what they saw. From what everyone has told me, the bright light was certainly not a plane, helicopter or anything else that that would be a man made craft. This is one of the strangest cases I have worked on, and with so many folks seeing it, either the bright white light, or the beam of light. Now the beam of light may be explainable, but the object is really strange. Mostly due to what it did in the sky, and being so darn low. Then of course around the same time, I had two women with missing time which I reported on. I hope to have this report over the major sighting on July 27/28 done up soon. It is a strange one. Take care, Brian
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 26 Re: Mysteries And Anomalies On The Moon? - Hatch From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net> Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 23:37:34 -0700 Fwd Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 06:41:26 -0400 Subject: Re: Mysteries And Anomalies On The Moon? - Hatch >From: Pedro Luz Cunha <pplcunha@yahoo.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2003 10:48:38 -0300 (ART) >Subject: Re: Mysteries And Anomalies On The Moon? >>From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >>Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2003 01:12:40 -0700 >>Subject: Re: Mysteries And Anomalies On The Moon? >Hello Larry, >I am writing an article and found quite a few links in >the internet point out to an article about this >subject. >The article seems to be a goof history fiction one. Anyway, as I >am writing an article about Moon anomlies I am trying to show >this side of the story too. You can read about it at: >http://www.v-j-enterprises.com/moonger.html >Pedro Cunha = = = = Hello Pedro: I checked out the link, and its about as goofy as they come. Its an article by one Vladimir Terziski, "President of the American Academy of Dissident Sciences" whom and which I never heard of before. Peeling back the v-j-enterprises URL above, I see that the main site is entitled "The Aquarian Age" and has immediate links to such matters as: "New Age, Metaphysical Journeys, Roswell, UFOs... Crystal Skulls ... " and even an E-book called "Journeys of a Crystal Skull Explorer". Price is not given, its due out about a year ago. Don't take my word for it, here's the stripped back URL: http://www.v-j-enterprises.com As for Vladimir Terziski, President of the American Academy of Dissident Sciences, I did a Google search and immediately found the following: VT anti-gravity and Propulsion drives: http://www.ufoaudio.com/authors/terziski.html CONSPIRACIES AND SECRET SOCIETIES (panel discussion): http://www.ufoaudio.com/authors/panels.html Researcher Vladimir Terziski believes... that there are also craft constructed by 'the Illuminati': http://www.anomalous-images.com/text/COSCON33.TXT - - - A separate Google search for "Vladimir Terziski" and "free energy" (to exact quoted phrases, and solely on a hunch of mine)... brought up an amazing 83 different web pages/sites. I must be psychic. I have no further interest in VT, his Nazi bases on the Moon etc., having seen much of the above before. My point is that Google and other search engines have made it amazingly easy to look up the antics of Terziski and others like him. Best wishes - Larry Hatch
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 26 Scepticism [was: UFOIN?] From: Joe McGonagle <joe@ufology.org.uk> Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 08:51:58 +0100 Fwd Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 06:52:31 -0400 Subject: Scepticism [was: UFOIN?] >From: Roy Hale - The Lost Haven <roy@thelosthaven.co.uk> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2003 23:55:54 +0100 >Subject: Re UFOIN? <snip> >Do sceptics have a believe system too? Which is, they do not >believe ET visitations are possible, am I correct? And do you >think this belief could get in the way of their judgement on UFO >cases and sightings, or is this too much of an irrational >thought on my part? >Could you give me a timeline, as to when you think Science will >solve the UFO mystery? Speaking as a sceptic, I consider it unlikely that ET is visiting us, but do not exclude it as a possibility. I see no conflict in that regarding the investigation and research of UFO cases, if the evidence points absolutely towards alien visitation, I will report it as such. On the other hand, I do see belief in the ETH as a potential handicap in the investigation and research of UFOs. Though it is not neccessarily the case, there will always be the temptation for believers to interpret any nuance towards an ET outcome. It is like a priest being asked to assess whether or not a miracle has taken place. Regarding the timeline, if it is any help to you at all, science will have the matter completely wrapped up by 2110. Does that put your mind at rest? Regards, Joe (Scientific soothsayer)
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 26 Re: Virus on Rampage! - Kaeser From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com> Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 05:41:17 -0400 Fwd Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 06:55:59 -0400 Subject: Re: Virus on Rampage! - Kaeser >From: Brian Vike <hbccufo@telus.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 18:15:24 -0700 >Subject: Re: Virus on Rampage! >>From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >>Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2003 12:25:45 -0400 >>Subject: Re: Virus on Rampage! ><snip> >>I got wiped out and I'm on a Mac. Lost my address book, all my >>emails, my Netscape is toast and I lost all my save emails. >>I'm rebuilding my address book slowly. >Gosh sorry to hear, Don, that you got wiped out. This certainly >is a nasty virus and I have had so many I started something >which stops the virus coming into my email box. Maybe it might >be an idea to try if you have not thought of it. >My internet server is Telus. We have three email accounts but it >is mine, hbccufo@telus.net which is being nailed badly. So I >head over to Telus, go to my web mail and read my mail online. >Then I check each of the emails I do not want, hit delete and >they are gone, then move quickly and download my and my wife's >mail to our computer. >So I leave open a window to keep checking my email on line. It >really has helped big time, when one is getting these darn >things coming in constantly one has to try anything. >Anyway, if you haven't thought of this, it really is worth the >try, and saves these crappy things hitting your computer. Hi Brian- Unfortunately, most people don't have the option (or know how to) read their mail directly on the server. However, many mail programs have a setting that would cause them to simply reject any and all attachments. I think it's important to note that SOBIG.F is a modified version of an older virus, and by itself isn't (to anyone's knowledge) destructive. It's also based on utilizing Microsoft's address book (both Outlook and Outlook Express), which makes it highly unlikely that it could do much more than fill up the Inbox on a MAC. Unless there's a facet of this that no one has discovered, I don't believe it could execute in a MAC OS environment. It wouldn't have a Windows registry to modify and even if it downloaded other components, they'd likely be designed for Windows platform. The SMTP engine that it also contains would run on a MAC. It's also unlikely that it would directly impact Netscape, since most people like to hate Internet Explorer. Don's system could have simply been pushed over the edge (so to speak) by the large number of incoming messages, but it would be the first crossover virus that anyone has ever designed if it directly affected a MAC. However all you MAC and Linux users will one day have your own threats to deal with, so don't gloat too much..... <g> Steve
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 27 Re: Mysteries And Anomalies On The Moon? - Cunha From: Pedro Luz Cunha <pplcunha@yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 09:16:37 -0300 (ART) Fwd Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 12:55:56 -0400 Subject: Re: Mysteries And Anomalies On The Moon? - Cunha >From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 23:37:34 -0700 >Subject: Re: Mysteries And Anomalies On The Moon? >>From: Pedro Luz Cunha <pplcunha@yahoo.com> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >>Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2003 10:48:38 -0300 (ART) >>Subject: Re: Mysteries And Anomalies On The Moon? >>>From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net> >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >>>Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2003 01:12:40 -0700 >>>Subject: Re: Mysteries And Anomalies On The Moon? >>Hello Larry, >>I am writing an article and found quite a few links in >>the internet point out to an article about this subject. >>The article seems to be a goof history fiction one. Anyway, as I >>am writing an article about Moon anomlies I am trying to show >>this side of the story too. You can read about it at: >>http://www.v-j-enterprises.com/moonger.html <snip> >I checked out the link, and its about as goofy as they come. Its >an article by one Vladimir Terziski, "President of the American >Academy of Dissident Sciences" whom and which I never heard of >before. Hello Larry, I've done the same in Google. Now, do you believe that VT does really exist? Does the Academy exists? Pedro Cunha
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 27 Re: UFO Crashes In South Africa - Herbiet From: Noel Herbiet <2orpheus6@telkomsa.net> Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 19:14:09 +0200 Fwd Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 13:00:10 -0400 Subject: Re: UFO Crashes In South Africa - Herbiet >From: Noel Herbiet <tzolkin@telkomsa.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2003 14:21:35 +0200 >Subject: Re: UFO Crashes In South Africa >Hello List >I am writing to you on behalf of ECUFOR, the Evaluation Centre >for UFO Reports, based in South Africa. The mention of the >Kalahari incident has prompted me to try and set the record >straight on this incident. Sorry List members, The email address that appears above is incorrect! Forgot to change the profile on my laptop. My email address is 2orpheus6@telkomsa.net Pardon the confusion! Thanks
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 27 Re: Mysteries And Anomalies On The Moon? - Hamilton From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22@fastmail.fm> Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 05:03:40 -0800 Fwd Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 13:09:01 -0400 Subject: Re: Mysteries And Anomalies On The Moon? - Hamilton >From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 23:37:34 -0700 >Subject: Re: Mysteries And Anomalies On The Moon? >>From: Pedro Luz Cunha <pplcunha@yahoo.com> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >>Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2003 10:48:38 -0300 (ART) >>Subject: Re: Mysteries And Anomalies On The Moon? >>>From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net> >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >>>Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2003 01:12:40 -0700 >>>Subject: Re: Mysteries And Anomalies On The Moon? >>I am writing an article and found quite a few links in >>the internet point out to an article about this >>subject. >>The article seems to be a goof history fiction one. Anyway, as I >>am writing an article about Moon anomlies I am trying to show >>this side of the story too. You can read about it at: >>http://www.v-j-enterprises.com/moonger.html >I checked out the link, and its about as goofy as they come. Its >an article by one Vladimir Terziski, "President of the American >Academy of Dissident Sciences" whom and which I never heard of >before. >Peeling back the v-j-enterprises URL above, I see that the main >site is entitled "The Aquarian Age" and has immediate links to >such matters as: >"New Age, Metaphysical Journeys, Roswell, UFOs... Crystal Skulls >... " and even an E-book called "Journeys of a Crystal Skull >Explorer". Price is not given, its due out about a year ago. >Don't take my word for it, here's the stripped back URL: >http://www.v-j-enterprises.com >As for Vladimir Terziski, President of the American Academy of >Dissident Sciences, I did a Google search and immediately found >the following: >VT anti-gravity and Propulsion drives: >http://www.ufoaudio.com/authors/terziski.html >CONSPIRACIES AND SECRET SOCIETIES (panel discussion): >http://www.ufoaudio.com/authors/panels.html >Researcher Vladimir Terziski believes... that there are also >craft constructed by 'the Illuminati': >http://www.anomalous-images.com/text/COSCON33.TXT Vladimir used to haunt us at MUFON LA until the Director asked him to please go elsewhere. He raved on about Nazi saucers and genetic experiments and claimed the British went to the moon in 1896! He actually sold so many video tapes and transcripts that he amassed a following for a while. Alas, he has not been seen for some years now. Probably finally silenced by the Illuminati. -Bill H
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 27 Re: South African Cases? - Herbiet From: Noel Herbiet <2orpheus6@telkomsa.net> Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 11:08:25 +0200 Fwd Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 13:04:19 -0400 Subject: Re: South African Cases? - Herbiet >From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22@fastmail.fm> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2003 06:58:05 -0800 >Subject: Re: South African Cases? >I looked into this when it was first made public and received a >tape of James Van Gruenen when he was on a visit to the >Southwest US. James was then touting he was a contactee. He was >about as credible as Sean David Morton. Hello Bill, fellow listers I totally agree that Van Greunen was a debatable witness, however the evidence does not stop with him... yes in 1989/92 it might have but since then information has come from different sources who firstly did not know of a "case" in the Kalahari and secondly who had never heard of the name Van Greunen. You also say : >Also, Cynthia Hind, one of SA's foremost investigators at >the time, was one of the first to uncover the hoax. "uncover the hoax"? ...since when does insufficient information qualify as a criteria to label a case hoax? For all her good work, of which there was plenty, there simply wasn't enough info at the time and political situation for Cynthia Hind to arrive at a final conclusion. We worked together on this case and sadly just a while before her untimely death,we were exchanging information on this case that caused her to begin to reconsider her previous verdict. >>For info on Anthony Dodd's stance, I suggest you contact Graham >>Birdsall of Quest International, editor of UFO magazine in the UK. And why not ask Anthony himself? He is on email, and though not of great health, I am sure he will respond to proper questions. Our director met with Tony in person over the 1989 case and he has been helpful to us. Get it from the horse's mouth as it were. Tony is a fine old gentleman, be kind to him, he has done great work at great sacrifice. Noel Herbiet ECUFOR
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 27 Re: UFO Crashes In South Africa - Maccabee From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com> Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 18:58:58 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 13:48:58 -0400 Subject: Re: UFO Crashes In South Africa - Maccabee >From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22@fastmail.fm> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 17:39:15 -0800 >Subject: Re: UFO Crashes In South Africa >>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >>Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 18:43:21 -0400 >>Subject: Re: UFO Crashes In South Africa <snip> >>As I recall from about 10(?) years ago, when this hoax was >>circulating the description implied that the "maser cannon" was >>a laser beam device. The Air Force has been working on a laser >>beam weapon for many years. The actual laser has been tested on >>the ground. However, the Airborne Laser Lab (ABL) which is a 747 >>with this laser on board, has yet to be built. So far as I know >>from reviewing the laser work in the USA and other other places >>there are no actual lasers powerful enough to be weapons, >>installed on any aircraft as yet (there could be much weaker >>lasers for range finding, signalling, etc.) A weapon leve laser >>would radiate hundreds of kilowatts to megawatts of power. There >>are only a few lasers in existence that have this power level >>(e.g., at the White Sands proving ground there are 2, I >>believe.) None are "portable"... requiring sizable ground >>installations in order to operate/. >Not quite Bruce. The YAL-1A already exists on an extensively >modified Boeing 747-400 freighter and has been tested at least >once at Edwards AFB according to our Aerotech News. >Here is one ref: >http://www.aerotechnews.com/starc/2003/012103/ABL.html May I suggest you reread and note that the article you mention says that the "team" (":Team ABL") hopes to get the airborne laser into operation and to shoot down a missile in late 2004. At present they are still building and integrating the parts into the aircraft. For a complete review of the ABL (airborne laser) program from 1992 on. See: www.airbornelaser.com The YAL-1A to which you refer is,at present, the **airplane only** wothout the high power laser. Although the plane is referred to as the Airborne Laser Laboratory, it does not yet have the laser installed. The first flight of this especially modified Boeing 747 aircraft was in July 2002. The "COIL" laser ("megawatt class") is to be installed in 2003 and 2004. The first complete system test (airplane flying, shoots down a ballistic, missile) is scheduled for late 2004. Bottom line: there are no weapon level lasers flying around now and certainly weren't at the time of the "Kalahari Incident." Incidently, one of the first names for what we now call the "laser" was "optical maser"...indicating that the phenomenology of the laser is basically the same as for the maser.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 27 Re: Trauma Can Bring About UFO Experiences? - Velez From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 12:29:08 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 14:29:27 -0400 Subject: Re: Trauma Can Bring About UFO Experiences? - Velez >From: Eric Jacobson <ejacobson74@comcast.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 07:08:56 +0000 >Subject: Re: Trauma Can Bring About UFO Experiences? >>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 09:40:43 -0400 >>Subject: Re: Trauma Can Bring About UFO Experiences? >>>From: Eric Jacobson <ejacobson74@comcast.net> >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >>>Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 17:37:24 -0400 >>>Subject: Re: Trauma Can Bring About UFO Experiences? ><snip> >>>Temporal lobe seizures have many of the features of paranormal >>>and close encounter experiences. They can involve extensive >>>visual and auditory hallucination, and can have elaborate >>>narrative themes and structures. >>>Also temporal lobe seizures and/or epilepsy >>>are not "all on"/"all off" phenomena, i.e. there is a gradation >>>from the gross to the subtle. Some people have experiences that >>>have some of the characteristics of TLE without meeting full >>>diagnostic criteria. Given that epileptic seizures in general >>>can be triggered by a wide variety of stressors, those with a >>>susceptability to TLE or sub-clinical TLE may be triggered into >>>seizure like activity by stressful experiences of many kinds, in >>>particular by fevers, low blood sugar, or intense emotional >>>responses. >>>The more interesting question, which I have never been able to >>>get any abduction research people to even hear, is whether >>>aliens might prefer to abduct humans with TLE or with sub- >>>clinically unstable temporal lobes. Such individuals would be >>>easier to trigger into seizure like activity, and might also be >>>more suggesible. This is why it would be interesting to do a >>>survey of TLE and temporal lobe lability in abductee >>>populations, but abduction researchers generally react with >>>hostility to that idea. The seem only able to regard it as a >>>debunking strategy. Too bad, because it's a very interesting >>>question. >>It is a never-ending source of amazement/amusement for me that >>people continue to 'make-up' all of these abnormal psychology >>explanations for abduction reports when the real data plainly >>points to the fact that; among those who report UFO abduction >>(that have been screened/tested psychologically) show _no_ >>abnormal psychology in the percipients. >>Why do some people insist on slapping a label of psychological >>abnormality or aberration on a set of reports that are coming >>from individuals who check out ok after extensive testing? >>Maybe it's time we look into 'what' is being reported rather >>than in those reporting it. The actual details of the reports is >>about the only thing that hasn't been looked into all these many >>years. >>One more time in case anybody has missed it: >>Tests that were conducted by people like Aphrodite Clamar and >>John Mack on individuals reporting UFO/alien abduction clearly >>show that they are not suffering from any kind of 'known' >>psychosis. Period. >>How about we deal with _that_ little piece of reality as opposed >>to all of these psycho-babble, mumbo-jumbo, _non-applicable_ >>explanations? Hi Eric, You wrote: >You seem not to have read what I wrote clearly. I am not >explaining away all abduction experiences in "psychological" >terms. I am merely pointing out that there is one >neuropsychological disorder which i) may account for SOME such >reports (or do you require that each and every abduction report >must be veridical?). And ii) that TLE or TL lability may be a >factor in who is selected for actual alien contact. You seem to >have totally edited out that second point. Relax Eric, it was a 'general' kind of response and not necessarily meant for you specifically. I guess I could have worded my post better for the sake of eliminating potential misunderstanding. I've been participating on this List since late 1995 or early 96. You have no idea how many 'psych' explanations for UFO abduction reports I have heard or been asked to respond to. Everything from hallucinations to fetal infanticide guilt has been blamed for abduction reports. After so long dealing with all of the myriad theories that are thrown up for consideration, maybe I've become a bit oversensitive on the subject. (?) >I have read the evaluations done by Clamar and Mack in detail. >Neither of them conducted neuropsychological or >neurophysiological examinations. In fact neither for them >conducted a careful study of psychitric symptomatology of the >population. There has actually not been any "extensive testing" >of this population. The evidence simply has not been collected. I'll have to go back and check on which clinical evaluation tools Dr. mack may have employed. Perhaps Will Beuche, former webmaster of John Mack's PEER website will be kind enough to jump in and help out here. I _can_ tell you that Aphrodite Clamar and one other psychologist, whose name escapes me at the moment, both employed the MMPI (Minnisota Multiphasic Personality Indicator) in their evaluations of these subjects. The MMPI is a very comprehensive diagnostic tool and has long been considered a 'reliable' test by psychology professionals. The MMPI results when taken in conjunction with a series of one on one interview sessions provides a clinician with a fairly decent window into the overall mental health of the subject being tested. Those are test results that can be relied upon to an acceptable degree. The subjects they tested came through those evaluations with flying colors. We could of course argue numbers ad nausium. How many is enough to give a good statistical indiction, and all that. But, the fact remains that the subjects that they did test all checked out ok. I've heard a thousand other 'theories' to explain away abduction reports entertained on this List. I have just never heard anyone discuss the results of the psychological exams that _have_been conducted, nor the implications of those results in terms of taking the 'content' of the reports much more seriously. >The idea that there is no incidence of psychiatric or neurologic >disorder among abductees is kind of strange, since all these >disorders occur with a certain frequency in the general >population. So are you suggesting that abductees as a group >don't ever have such disorders? Nope. Not at all. Never have suggested such a thing nor would I. I've run into way too many psychiatric cases myself to ever make such a sweeping statement. Or to even imply it. >Your response to my comments is sadly all to typical of >"abduction researchers." You assume that any discussion of the >relationship between abduction reports and psychiatric or >neuropsychiatry disorders must be a debunking effort. That's _your_ own spin on it Eric. You 'assume' to know what I 'assume.' You know what they say about 'assuming.' ;) >You are >unable to conceive of the possibility that such disorders may >explain _some_ aspects of some reports, (that is _some_), nor >that they may bear a significant relationship to actual >abductions. Boy, in what is a very short time you seem to have become a real expert on what _I_ am able to conceive (or not.) I'm impressed. My wife of 34 years doesn't presume to know my mind as well as you do... but that's neither here nor there. >Contrary to your knee-jerk characterization of me, I'll cop to being a more than a little sensitive on the subject. (With perfectly good reason!) But 'kneejerk' reaction, no. Contrary to popular belief I actually think _before_ I speak. (Post to the List.) >I believe >that abductions and close encounters actually do occur. I am >also interested in exploring the relationship between those >events and what we know about human mind and brain. That's all well and good, Eric but I am looking at the phenomenon from a different perspective than you. I'm on the inside looking out. My viewpoint is experientially derived/based. My primary concern is raising public awareness about the many people who are in very real need of immediate assistance. There are some 'real' effects on the human brain/psyche from coming into contact with something that isn't even supposed to exist. There is a very real 'shock' that has been experienced by anyone who has had any kind of contact at all with these beings and their craft. But nobody seems interested in discussing that. Only 'theories' which fit into their comforting and neat little pigeon holes. Some folks will entertain only the theories which reinforce the illusion that they have a good handle, a good bead on things. >The insistance that each and every abduction report must be true, Who is doing that? You? We'll tie and horse-whip whoever is doing such a thing! As for myself, I would never insist on anything of the kind. >and that any reference to psychology or psychiatry or neurology >must be forbidden, Huh? Not in _my_ post. Perhaps you have my post confused with someone else's, Eric. All I'm trying to say is; there are real people who need real help with a real problem. Maybe we ought to dedicate a 'little' time to that now and then. No offense was intended to you personally. I hope you didn't take any. Regards, John Velez
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 27 Filer's Files #35 -- 2003 From: George A. Filer <Majorstar@aol.com> Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 11:18:49 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 14:35:01 -0400 Subject: Filer's Files #35 -- 2003 Filer's Files #35 -- 2003 Skywatch Investigations. George A. Filer, Director Mutual UFO Network Eastern August 28, 2003, Majorstrar@aol.com ]Majorstar@aol.com Webmaster: Chuck Warren My website is at: http://www.georgefiler.com/ ]www.GeorgeFiler.com/ Sponsored by: http://www.filer.Isotonix.com/ UFO SIGHTINGS INCREASE AS WE NEAR MARS The purpose of these files is to report the UFO eyewitness and photo/video evidence that occurs on a daily basis around the world and in space. These files investigate: Mars - canal like markings, Did UFOs cause the Blackout?, New York - Flying Manta Ray video, New Jersey - hovering Star Trek Enterprise like craft, West Virginia - intense blue light reported, Kentucky - flying triangle shaped craft, Ohio - UFO causes power outage and daylight rods videotaped, Minnesota - star avoids a falling star, Wisconsnin - T-shaped silent craft, Colorado - cylinder spotted, California -strobing lights, Washington - flying triangle flies off wing of 767, Canada - strange cloud and lights and video of disc, Venezuela - huge round object, UK - dome shaped object with flames, Greece - images show UFO over Parthenon, Turkey - UFOs running wild over capital. Michael Menkin writes about the alien plan for humans and a life- extending chemical is found in certain red wines. MARS - CANAL LIKE MARKINGS On August 27th, at 09:51 universal time (UT) , Earth made its closest approach to Mars in nearly 60,000 years. Many of our readers in Australia and New Zealand had some of the best views. We urge everyone to try to observe Mars and see its white poles, perhaps canals and green vegetation. Storm writes: The question of canals on Mars may not be answered. NASA, SETI and Space.com states you cannot see canal like markings on these images from NASA. Hubble photographs of the entire planet disk show channels in the surface that look like canals and valleys. An H - like formation of channels has perpendicular and right angle straight line markings. These are definately odd formations. This portion of the image M0304405 from the Mars Global Surveyor Orbital Camera rotated on it's side shows clear channel or canal like markings that appear to be emptying liquid water into a large body of water at the bottom portion of the same image below. Other markings on this full image under close inspection look like intelligent structures including road, pyramidal, tower, walls and castle like formations, some on the upper example and others further down the image. The full image is large and many take a few minutes to download. [ http://www.msss.com/moc_gallery/ab1_m04/images/M0304405.html ]http://www.msss.com/moc_gallery/ab1_m04/images/M0304405.html Full database access can be found at the following link. You will have to select the narrow image gallery and click on the map quadrants and then green link markings to access the images. [ http://www.msss.com/moc_gallery/ab1_m04/images/M0304405.html ]http://www.msss.com/moc_gallery/ Thanks to Storm, stonesnorm@gis.net At [ http://www.georgefiler.com/ ]http://www.georgefiler.com/ FF#35 views DID UFOs CAUSE THE BLACKOUT? John Edmonds writes regarding Filer's Files #34 - Did UFOs Cause Blackout? I think it is interesting that a similar blackout on the Western Power Grid occurred last year that spanned across Arizona, California, Oregon, and Washington State at very nearly the same time period. No conclusive answer was ever provided at that time either. Power was interrupted for nearly three days in our area here in Arizona, and I live with in 15 miles of Palo Verde nuclear generating station. I distinctly remember dozens ofn Golden Orbs appearing in sets of three's for months before the failure; appearing nearly nightly in the Southern sky. I video taped many of these sightings on my digital video camera. Thanks to John Edmonds ROTTIJOHN411@msn.com PRESIDENT JOHNSON - "UNKNOWN PHENOMENA" MIGHT CAUSE BLACKOUT Richard Moss wrote: " Unknown phenomena" was considered as a possible cause of the 1965 blackout. A memo that recovered from the Johnson Library and written by Bourassa, who was the head of Mount Weather as part of the Office of Emergency Planning inside the Executive office of the President. As a sidelight to this Steven Lovekin, who said Eisenhower talked about UFOs in front of him while he worked with Signal Corps also said, Mount Weather performed some sort of tracking of UFOs. Bourassa died in 2000,n and did not add to this newly discovered material. Thanks to Richard Moss NEW YORK - FLYING MANTA RAY VIDEOTAPED MILLBROOK - Bruce Cornet, Ph.D., writes: "Billy M. invited me up to his aunt's house in southeast New York on Wednesday, August 20, 2003, and after dark we walked in the field around his house." He said, "There had been a lot of Unidentified Aircraft Phenomena (UAP) activity over his neighbors' property during the last few weeks, and at 9:37 PM, we had an incredible encounter with the flying Manta Ray." It gave us a classic performance that lasted for a little more than five minutes! The event was videontaped. After we first spotted its headlights to the north about half a mile away, it brightened them considerably, then slowly began to accelerate towards us. We heard no sound until it was almost over us. As it began to move, it dimmed its headlights back to normal. Its altitude could not have been much more than 500 feet as a small red light located at its nose flashed regularly and irregularly. As it approached our position in a horse pasture and side of a small hill, it made a sharp turn sideways,n but continued to move towards us sideways. It extended a pair of lights at its delta-shaped nose as it continued to turn around. Bruce states, "When it came to a complete stop momentarily, it was pointing away from us and not more than a few hundred feet from us." I compare the maneuver to an ice skater making a sharp turn on ice. It banked only slightly as it turned. Then the diamond-shape craft began to accelerate away from us. A light on top of the craft at its nose moved downwards as it was extended forward, and ended up on the bottom of tnhe craft as the craft departed! As it left, its taillight began to flash, whereas before it did not strobe. In addition, its strobes did not illuminate any of its fuselage, something that does happen with conventional aircraft. Its skin was stealth black. It produced a whole range of different whining sounds like a series of electrical generators powering up. Its estimated average speed was between 10-15 mph. Dr. Ellen Crystall and I have independently videotaped and photographed this craft dozens ofn times (you have seen this craft take off from a field at Pine Bush, NY). Each time it did something a little different, giving us more information about this enigmatic craft. The Hudson Valley sightings continue. Graphics are based on measurements taken from captured videoframes. Thanks to Bruce Coronet- Images at: [ http://aolsvc.downloadcenter.aol.com/main.jsp2 ]http://bcornet.homestead.com/files/Mantaray/Millbrook.htm MANLIUS - At 10:00 PM, on August 20, 2003, on Broadfield Road ten miles east of Syracuse and 200 miles from the previous sighting, the witness states, " I observed a white glowing round object approximately the size of a bottle cap at half an arm's length, slowly traveling from south to north at 40 MPH. The object was low in the western sky flying at an altitude of 300 feet. The object had about the same luminescence as a bright full moon and could still be seen as it passed behind the areas trees. Unrestricted nviewing observation time was about two seconds, and total observation time was five seconds before the object left the area. NEW JERSEY - HOVERING STAR TREK ENTERPRISE SPACESHIP MOUNT HOLLY - At 4:30 AM, three witnesses were traveling north between Exits 4 and 5 on the NJ Turnpike on August 6, 2003, and saw two giant spotlights shining toward them in the sky couple miles in front us. They looked like headlights on a car but much brighter. As we got closer, I could see some red lights, and the spotlights were no longer as bright and they were shining straight down. I am a 40 year old Mom and I observed this with my 10 year old daughter and my 14 year old son while driving home. More lights wnere shining to the west and it almost looked like a radio tower with the red lights. As we got closer, I observed there was no tower under these lights. It just hovered in one spot above the trees. The bottom of it looked round, but the front of it looked a little different and that's where the red lights were. I woke up my son to observe this as well. This object was very large and reminded me of the Star Trek Enterprise Spaceship without the tail (that's the best way I can describe it) We observed thnis for several minutes. It did not move at anytime that we observed it. I wish we had pulled over to sit and watch it but we were in such shock over seeing this incredible sight. Thanks to Peter Davenport [ www.nuforc.org ]NUFORC WEST VIRGINIA - INTENSE BLUE LIGHT REPORTED BARBOURSVILLE - The witness reports, "At 12:15 AM, My mother and I were driving north on Route 10, just a few miles past Davis Creek Mountain on August 8, 2003, on the hillside we could see a super bright blue flashing light that lit up the entire valley between the hills." At first we thought it was an emergency vehicle, but we quickly realized it was way too bright for strobe lights on a police car or fire truck. We never actually saw the craft, but the light was so intense, I'm sure there is no man mande light source that could emit that much light. As we approached Barboursville, I saw a small distant flash over the hill to my left which would have been the western sky. Thanks to Peter Davenport [ www.nuforc.org ]NUFORC KENTUCKY - FLYING TRIANGLE SHAPED CRAFT Ky Settler writes: Just went out to check again, and I must get better binoculars! It looks like there are five of the things I saw the other night which have red, green and white lights on them, and they are in a ring, and way up high. Closer in, and south of my garage is a much larger item, appears to be arrowhead shaped and has mainly white lights all over it. It is in the same position it was in at 12:30 AM, but is now just a little closer to earth. What I can't believe is ... aren't other people seneing these things? This is NOT my imagination. I think I'll follow this a bit more, but from my bedroom window. I am not feeling real safe out there by myself at the moment. Is anyone else in central KY (between Lexington and Louisville) reporting this stuff? Thanks to: Betsy KySettler OHIO - FLYING TRIANGLE TOLEDO -- Lissy Dunning writes: "The date would have been August 13, 2003, at about 2:00 PM, and it was very strange and we won't forget what it was." I am not sure how to draw it, but it was triangle shaped with a bar across the front. I'm 42 years old and have never seen anything like it. In talking to my ex- boyfriend and his cousin, when we described it, they thought it was either a stealth fighter or F-22. My daughter and I viewed pictures of both on the Internet, and it was neither. We didn't see any enngines, and the closest we have been able to come to description...in terms of if it's an aircraft is the Aurora, which appears (from the information we read) an experimental aircraft by the Air Force. However, even the picture of the Aurora doesn't look exactly like what we saw. The dimensions are hard to estimate, because it was up in the sky. But, it was tan versus black, like pictures of the Aurora, and it was the same triangular shape, but my daughter thinks the bar in the front could have been somne type of stabilizers. It was heading southeast, which is away from the airport. I found that quite odd, as well, since the planes that go over don't generally travel in that direction. Thanks to Lissy WEST CHESTER - Correction to last weeks story, Kenny Young not Mort Twain sent the following: "This afternoon I talked with researcher Donnie Blessing by telephone concerning her investigation of a UFO sighting on June 2, 2003, that dealt with a reported power outage while the UFO was in relatively close proximity to the witness. Donnie has spoken with the witness and is preparing a report and drawing to send to NUFORC. As we discussed plans on the case and preparations to go about contacting CINERGY to confirm powenr service disruptions on June 2 around the 2:30 a.m. time frame, it was a big surprise to learn of the major blackout. The data looks very good so far." FOSTORIA -- George Ritter, who fought in Vietnam with the 4th Infantry Division, who worked with special forces videotaped UFOs on August 15, 2003, the second day of the Blackout. He continues to take videos of large lake freighter-size cylinders flying over his home, thirty miles from Lake Erie. Photos can be seen at: [ http://www.georgefiler.com/ ]www.GeorgeFiler.com/ Weekly Files #34 Views MINNESOTA - STAR AVOIDS A FALLING STAR? FRIDLEY -- The witness was out on his balcony on August 3, 2003, at 12:23 AM, and saw a bright star like hovering object. I saw a falling star off to the right of the object and noticed that the object made a swooping motion as if to avoid the falling star. It then continued to keep it's position in the sky where I had first witnessed it, yet constantly in motion. I got my wife and she watched as it continued to make swooping and other maneuvers. These were not the kind of motion you would expect an aircranft to make. As we watched the object my wife and I witnessed multiple falling stars as well as motions from the object that simply cannot be explained as motion from either aircraft or satellite. Thanks to Peter Davenport [ www.nuforc.org ]NUFORC WISCONSIN - T-SHAPED SILENT CRAFT GREEN BAY - Two witnesses report, "While looking at the moon and trying to find the planet Mars on August 13, 2003, at 10:20 PM, my wife and I noticed a moving object." After taking a second glance this T-shaped object was moving from the southeast to the northwest. It was higher than that of an airplane yet not as high as what the stars would be. It had a row of lights in the front that were red and yellowish in color. The lights were twinkling rather fast and behind that was a glob of lights (same colorn as front row of lights). Whatever this object was it made no sound and moved steadily through the sky. Thanks to Peter Davenport [ www.nuforc.org ]NUFORC COLORADO - CYLINDER SPOTTED LITTLETON -- I was looking out my window on August 6, 2003 at 1:20 PM, and noticed a cylinder-shaped object making tight circles in front of a cloud. At first I thought perhaps it was an eagle, as it did have dark edges and a lighter center, but as it circled I saw it catch the glint of the sun and shine brightly for a second. At this point, I noticed there were two of them circling round and round, in relatively stationary, tight circles. They were several miles to the west, and about 5,000 feet up --n perhaps 1/3 of the way from horizon to zenith. I called to my co-worker and he came over and also saw these objects. Most of the time only one could be seen, but a couple of times the objects were seen to move in an almost synchronized fashion. They may have been cylinder-shaped, as they tilted while circling, but from my perspective it's hard to say -- i.e., they may have been disks. I can say with confidence, they were not airplanes. In any case, they were fascinating to watch for approximately 5 mninutes, when I lost them in a cloudbank. This morning I saw a small, silent, dark oval drifting very slowly east out my office window, which occasionally seemed to flash a light. Thanks to [ www.nuforc.org ]NUFORC CALIFORNIA - RED, GREEN AND BLUE STROBING LIGHTS GRANADA HILLS, LOS ANGELES -- My home is in the hills, looking south over the San Fernando Valley in Los Angeles. I have a 180 degree view of several miles from east to south to west. I observed a source of light west towards Point Magu and Vandenberg Air Force Base on August 7, 2003, at 10 PM. The craft was putting off a tremendous amount of strobing light, changing from red to green to blue and white. It was magnitude- 3 and about 15 degrees off the western horizon. Viewed through medium power binoculars, I got the sense of a disc or diamond shape. After cruising slowly to the north, the object abruptly disappeared. After the craft disappeared, several helicopters flew through the area. I am familiar with just about every kind of aircraft, but this was something else -- something I've never seen before. Thanks to Peter Davenport [ www.nuforc.org ]NUFORC WASHINGTON - FLYING TRIANGLE FLIES OFF WING OF 767 AIRCRAFT SEATTLE -- In flight from Hawaii to Seattle, twenty minutes from landing, at 10:15 PM, on August 4, 2003, two witnesses observed a bright red light out of the airplane window. Then a second red light appeared and then a third red light -- making a perfect triangle formation. The flying triangle flew next to our 767 commercial aircraft for two minutes before fading away. Thanks to Peter Davenport KIRKLAND - A college professor and four college students were on a five day back packing trip in the Pasayten Wilderness the first week of August 2003. We saw a light in the sky on the third, that we could not explain. They were on a hike near Slate Peak, in the North Cascade Mountains near the Canadian border at 6,600 feet elevation trail head is at an old air force listening station. We were sitting around a small camp fire above the lake looking at a perfectly clear night sky. Then a few minutes after 11 PM we nsaw a bright light like an airplane in the southeast above the mountain ridge. It moved like a helicopter, but made no sound. Four of us witnessed it. The light then appeared to be moving directly towards our fire. It must be a Forest Service helicopter. Moments after the fire was put out, the light turned away from us and moved directly east. We witnessed the strange light floating lazily for about five minutes. On Monday evening we had another sighting at 9 PM, of what looked like the same object. This time we saw the same intense point of light. Thanks to Peter Davenport [ www.nuforc.org ]NUFORC CANADA - STRANGE CLOUD AND DAYLIGHT DISC VIDEO HOUSTON, BC - On August 13, 2003, at five minutes after the witness packed his camera and tripod and headed over to one of his fields on their farm. He was going to capture some shots of the planet Mars, when he noticed something very odd. In a totally clear sky he watched a cloud starting to form very quickly. As he mentioned, it came out of nowhere and seemed to be shaping up in an oblong shape. Due to the Moon being bright he had no problem in watching this phenomena. There was some type of disturbance, which was ntaking place in the cloud itself. From end to end of this narrow formed cloud, it looked like someone had taken a shot with a powerful gun, and the force of the shell was cutting through the cloud causing a disturbance within the center of the cloud which ran from end to end. There was no lights/object seen at all, just this strange long mass of cloud, which appeared right out of nowhere. It sat stationary for almost five minutes and dissipated SALMO RIVER - On August 14, 2003, at 11:20 PM, a husband and wife were traveling back home from Salmo to Nelson on Highway #6, next to the Salmo River when to their right flying at the top of the mountain was a round red ball of brilliant light. The witnesses said it moved too fast to be an airplane and hugged the contour of the mountain. No sound was heard. They watched for about seven seconds. Thanks to Brian Vike email: hbccufo@telus.net Website: [ http://www3.telus.net/public/wilbur8/hbcc_ufo_research ]http://www3.telus.net/public/wilbur8/hbcc_ufo_research NEW WESTMINSTER, BC - A video was taken August 11, 2003, around 6:20 PM of a daylight disc. The observer's wife saw a round object hovering over the trees, that flipped over and it turned bright blood red. She yelled for me, I came out and saw a cigar shaped object, I then ran back inside, to get my new camcorder and pointed at the disc but I had a hard time locating it at first, it was flying very fast. I was shocked. I wasn't laughing when I reviewed the tape. I'm using a JVC mini DV, GR- d90 camcoder. Thanks to Mark and nJeff Rense, [ http://aolsvc.downloadcenter.aol.com/main.jsp2 ]http://www.rense.com/general40/daydisc.htm VENEZUELA - ENORMOUS ROUND OBJECT CARACAS -- Mrs. Enza Colucci was followed by an enormous round object, surrounded by blinking blue lights on August 19, 2003, between 8:35 and 8:50 PM. Mrs. Coluchi was very excited and her driver, Mr. Alberto Amor=EDn, phoned CEINPLA immediately to file a report and make their experience known. This is a correction to last weeks sighting report in Argentina. Later at 12:30 AM, August 20, 2003, three youths, witnessed a luminous object flying over legendary Cerro, while groups opposing the government of President Hugo Chavez manifested their support of a possible recall in the streets of Caracas. Thanks to: Scott Corrales, lornis1@earthlink.net UK/ENGLAND - DOME SHAPE WITH FLAME Shepton Mallet Journal reports: "On August 9, 2003, a group of Shepton Mallet residents have said they are convinced they may have seen a UFO flying over the town on Saturday evening." Dozens of people saw a strange light, without any sound at all; make its way east over the town at around 9 PM. Among those who saw it were a group of Westway Lane residents and one of them, Taffy Stride, spoke to this newspaper earlier this week. He said: "The thing was dome shaped and seemed to have a bright white flame nat the bottom, but there was no sound at all. "We saw it come down to what seemed to be a few feet above the house. "It was a clear night and after a while, the thing made its way away from the town towards Doulting. The whole thing lasted about 20 minutes. "I had never seen anything like it and I have spoken to several people since who have said exactly the same." Town clerk Graham Brown also saw something. Write to us at the Shepton Mallet Journal, Southover, Wells, Somerset, BA5 1UH or e-mail sheptonn@midsomnews.co.uk. socex@terra.com.br 8/12/03 GREECE - IMAGES SHOW UFO OVER PARTHENON ATHENS - At 8:00 in the morning on the June 21, 2003, I visited the Acropolis of Athens and took around 70 photos with my digital camera (Canon IXUS v2) at a resolution of 1600x1200 pixels. I am 38 years old, an electrical engineer and businessman, running my own company in the telecom sector, and a happy father of twins. Keep up the good work. Best regards, Chris A. See [ http://www.georgefiler.com/ ]www.GeorgeFiler.com/ FF#35 Views of Greek Newspaper photo. TURKEY - MULTIPLE UFO SIGHTINGS CONTINUE SAROZ BAY -- A glowing orb was observed for five seconds at 10:35 PM, on August 2, 2003. The object was very bright and reflected white lights. It appeared suddenly and disappeared with great velocity within five seconds. SULOGLU DAM - At 11:31 PM, Murat Ekemen and Ismail Z=FDpk=FDn witnessed two sightings on August 2, 2003. A white orb projecting lights appeared for 30 seconds went straight and continued while making zigzag up and down movements and later disappeared. A UFO flew behind a F-16 fighter and started making unusual maneuvers. The object would come from behind the F-16, then pass it and after holding a distance from the F-16, it would suddenly come to a full stop. As soon as the F-16 got close, it would accelerate and make a distance between itself and the F-16, then it would wait up for the F-16 to catch up. ANKARA - - On August 10, 2003, at around 11:30 PM, my daughter's friend reported an unusual sighting while she and her family were visiting some friends a couple of blocks away in Turkey's Capitol on Kuzgun Street. While Nergis was sitting in the front garden with her brother and friends she saw a slow moving very bright white light. It started making zigzag maneuvers and then stopped and changed into various colors of red, blue and white. It continued at the same slow speed and suddenly vanished. She called henr parents to watch, and coming from behind the clouds were 14 UFOs headed northwest. The ones in the front were side by side and behind each other all having white lights. The ones in the back row were reflecting red lights and were cigar shaped UFO's.l . Thanks to Sirius UFO Space Sciences Research Turkey:[ http://www.siriusufo.org/ ]Sirius UFO Center Turkey ALIEN PLAN FOR HUMANS - Information from Abductees Michael Menkin's website contains the following remarkable information from abductees that is worth considering: There will be some kind of final event or invasion. Many abductees will participate in the event and perform tasks that the aliens have trained them to do. According to one abductee, it takes two pilots to control one alien spacecraft. The aliens are short on pilots so they are training abductees to pilot their spacecraft during the final event! One abductee, a woman in her mid fifties, is bneing trained to rescue aliens on the ground during the event, so the aliens must be considering that they will meet resistance for whatever they plan to do. An abductee in England reported that large groups of abductees are taken to some kind of meeting center and receive a presentation about the aliens' plans for the future, which includes a climatic event. Aliens will take all of the children they are working with at their final act. The parents of several child abductees reported this information. Heren's what an alien/human hybrid telepathically told an abductee as reported in his book, The Threat by David M. Jacobs, Ph.D. "And he's saying to me that, 'You know how you have memories?' And I'm saying like, 'What do you mean, memories?' He's saying, 'You know how you remember your father, your mother, your sister, the birthday parties?' I think he's giving me an example and I'm saying yes. And he goes, 'Someday people who are like you will not have those memories either. They'll be like me.' Like him meaning. And I'm saying, 'What do you mean by that?' He's saying, 'Don't you understand that?' I said no, or rather, I don't say no, I just shake my head. And then again he tells me to listen. He says, 'There will be only one purpose for you. You won't have memories like you do now.' I'm asking him like, 'You mean me?' He goes, 'No, the people who will come after you.' I don't know what he means by that. He's asking me, 'Are you understanding?' I'm shaking my head like I don't. I'm asking him, 'They're not going to take me away, are they?' And he's saying, 'They don't need to take you away. They will come.' I don't know what he means by this. Again I ask him what are they doing. He looks down and he looks up at me again and he lifts his arm up. He is saying something like, 'Do you see this?' And I say, 'What, your arm?' He goes, 'Never mind.' I said, 'No, tell me. Tell me. What are the aliens doing?' And he's saying all they're interested in, that no matter what happens at all, is that they control." CONJECTURE FROM UFO SOURCES There will be a world wide blackout which will paralyze every industrial country in the world. The blackout will last for days.The aliens will accomplish the blackout by transmitting large amounts of electricity into power relay stations and blowing out their circuit breakers.The aliens developed this technique in the 1960's as documented in the book, Incident at Exeter by John G. Fuller. This scenario was also confirmed by an abductee who was taken during a blackout in the 1960's. Every country's defenses will be disabled. Aliens have disabled ICBMs in their silos, missiles in flight as recorded by Air Force motion pictures, missile defenses in the US, Russia, and other countries. Aliens have flown over and tested the defenses of many military installations around the world as described in Timothy Good's book, Above Top Secret, The Worldwide U.F.O. Cover Up. For information on UFO encounters with our defenses see the books of U.S. Marine Corps Major Donald E. Keyhoe and Richard Dolann's book, UFOs and the National Security State. Thanks to Michael Menkin, see his excellent Website at:[ aliensandchildren.org ] aliensandchildren.org MUFON IS ON THE AIRWAVES Starting September 3, 2003, as a regular segment of the "WakeUP USA- A UFO Study show, hosted by Jim Hickman on the Stardust Radio Network a MUFON HOUR will be aired every Wednesday from 7:00 PM to 8:00 PM, CST. "The MUFON Hour" will be an exciting with Jim Hickman a MUFON Research Specialist for Media Operations and a UFO investigator. The first guest speaker will be MUFON International Director, John Schuessler. If your radio does not carry the show you may listen at: http://www.stardustradio.com Jim's "Hickman Report" website is at: [ http://www.thehickmanreport.com. ]http://www.thehickmanreport.com. You can phone the show at: 319-648-3101. LIFE-EXTENDING CHEMICAL IS FOUND IN CERTAIN RED WINES By NICHOLAS WADE - Biologists have found a class of chemicals that they hope will make people live longer by activating an ancient survival reflex. One of the chemicals, a natural substance known as resveratrol, is found in red wines, particularly those made in cooler climates like that of New York. The finding could help explain the so-called French paradox, the fact that the French live as long as anyone else despite consuming fatty foods deemed threatening to the heart. Besides the wine connection, the nfinding has the attraction of stemming from fundamental research in the biology of aging. The chemicals are designed to mimic the effect of a very low-calorie diet, which is known to lengthen the life span of rodents. Scientists involved in the research say that human life spans could be extended by 30 percent if humans respond to the chemicals in the same way as rats and mice do to low calories. Even someone who started at age 50 to take one of the new chemicals could expect to gain an extra 10 years of life, said Dr. Leonard Guarente of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, one of the pioneers of the new research. The new result was announced last week at a scientific conference in Arolla, a small village in the Swiss alps, by Dr. David A. Sinclair of the Harvard Medical School. Thanks to New York Times. Isotonix OPC-3, is a patented break thru in winning the war against aging and disease. It is a powerful combination of plant-derived bioflavonoids. Its made from a unique combination of grape seed, pine bark, red wine extracts, in addition to bilberry and citrus extracts. These OPC's are super-effective free radical neutralizers. They can change your life, they did mine! http://www.filer.Isotonix.com/ WHAT YOU SHOULD KNOW WHEN BUY OR SELL REAL ESTATE! Get your free report and learn how you can obtain the best real estate agent to help your buy or sell a home. To get a free copy of this report e-mail me at : Majorstar@aol.com MUFON UFO JOURNAL -- For more detailed monthly investigative reports subscribe to the MUFON JOURNAL. A MUFON membership includes the Journal and costs only $35.00 per year. To join MUFON or to report a UFO go to http://www.mufon.com/. To ask questions contact MUFONHQ@aol.com or HQ@mufon.com. Mention that I recommended you for membership. "The MUFON Journal is now accepting qualified advertising, please call 1 (303) 932-7709 for more information." Filer's Files is copyrighted 2003 by George A. Filer, all rights reserved. Readers may post the COMPLETE files on their Web Sites if they credit the Newsletter and its editor by name and list the date of issue. These reports and comments are not necessarily the OFFICIAL MUFON viewpoint. Send your letters to Majorstar@aol.com. Sending mail automatically grants permission for us to publish and use your name. Please state if you wish to keep your name or e-mail confidential. CAUTION, MOST OF THESE ARE INITIAL REPORTS AND REQUIRE FURTHER INVESTIGATION. Donations are encouraged to aid research. Regards, George A. Filer http://www.georgefiler.com/
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 27 Re: Virus on Rampage! - Velez From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 13:17:52 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 14:37:23 -0400 Subject: Re: Virus on Rampage! - Velez >From: Brian Vike <hbccufo@telus.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 18:15:24 -0700 >Subject: Re: Virus on Rampage! >>From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >>Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2003 12:25:45 -0400 >>Subject: Re: Virus on Rampage! ><snip> >>I got wiped out and I'm on a Mac. Lost my address book, all my >>emails, my Netscape is toast and I lost all my save emails. >>I'm rebuilding my address book slowly. >Gosh sorry to hear, Don, that you got wiped out. This certainly >is a nasty virus and I have had so many I started something >which stops the virus coming into my email box. Maybe it might >be an idea to try if you have not thought of it. >My internet server is Telus. We have three email accounts but it >is mine, hbccufo@telus.net which is being nailed badly. So I >head over to Telus, go to my web mail and read my mail online. >Then I check each of the emails I do not want, hit delete and >they are gone, then move quickly and download my and my wife's >mail to our computer. Hi Don, Brian, All, Mac's aren't immune. :( Although I haven't lost any files like poor Don, I have been receiving a bunch of e-mails from automatic server 'bots' telling me that a piece of virus infected mail is being rejected and sent back to me! E-mail that I allegedly sent (with _my_ e-mail address appearing in the header!) but which I _never_ sent. I have anti-virus software installed that I ran and which 'hopefully' identified and eliminated this annoying bug. Is it only UpDates List members that are suffering from this 'epidemic'? Or is this bug loose everywhere? Are "we" being targeted and attacked? PS - Don, Did you read my belated response to your post regarding the Mexican airline collision case? I just want to make sure you got to read it. Send me a note off-list. Regards, John Velez
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 27 Capt. Mantell & My Trip From: Wendy Connors <FadedDiscs@comcast.net> Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 11:26:34 -0600 Fwd Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 14:39:46 -0400 Subject: Capt. Mantell & My Trip Greetings to the List: Just returned from a long and nice vacation. One of the stops I made was in Franklin, KY to see the bronze marker (I donated for it's casting and supplied photos to the KY Air Museum of Mantell) honoring Capt. Thomas Mantell, Jr. While there I visited with several witnesses to the event, saw a few personal effects of Mantell and small pieces of the wreckage. I also got 2 new photos of Mantell and a copy of his birth certificate. Thank you, Jerry Clark, for the nice inscribed copy of your new book and I was very humbled that you dedicated the book to me. I was thrilled! I will be reading it this weekend after I get the travel mess cleaned up and things back to normal here. Non-UFO tidbit: I enjoyed cruising the Mississippi on an old paddle wheel steamboat while playing blackjack and the slots like they did in the good old days. Having grown up in Iowa it was nice to visit after 35 years and the old home town still looks the same. I don't, though. <G> Wendy Connors
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 27 Re: Private Aircraft Damage Event - Velez From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 18:12:08 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 14:59:51 -0400 Subject: Re: Private Aircraft Damage Event - Velez >From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca> >To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 13:04:41 -0300 >Subject: Re: Private Aircraft Damage Event >>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> >>Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 13:08:27 -0400 >>Fwd Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 14:41:43 -0400 >>Subject: Re: Private Aircraft Damage Event - Velez >>>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker@earthlink.net> >>>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >>>Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 10:51:13 -0400 >>>Subject: Private Aircraft Damage Event [was: Filer's Files #30 -- 2003] >>>>From: Vicente-Juan Ballester Olmos <ballesterolmos@yahoo.es> >>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >>>>Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 10:11:29 +0200 (CEST) >>>>Subject: Re: Filer's Files #30 -- 2003 >>>>I would not put too much credence in this Latin-american >>>>aeronautical event, and it has been demolished or debunked by >>>>Mexican engineer and researcher Luis Ruiz Noguez. >>>>If there is someone interested, I can privately provide Mr >>>>Ruiz=ABs email address for consultation. >>>Thanks for your always-of-interest comment. Of course, I'd like >>>to know how to contact Noguez. I may have read Noguez's >>>commentary several years ago (but I could be confused about >>>whose commentary I read) and found them not completely >>>convincing. However, if he has written his report on that case >>>in English, I'd like to ask him for a copy. ><snip> >Boys, boys! >>I also clearly stated that the collision took place during a >>landing at Mexico City Airport. The 'case' that you and Vicente >>are discussing is completely unrelated to this collision case I >>have cited. >>The facts are as follows: >>Mexico City International Airport, July 28, 1994 Time: 9:55pm >>Airplane: DC-9 en route from Guadalajara Airport to Mexico City Airport >>Flight# 129 >>Passengers: 109 + crew >>Pilot reporting: Raymundo Cervantes Ruano >>In a taped interview of the Pilot, Capt. Ruano, reports; that at >>precisely 9:55 pm during a landing approach to Mexico City >>Airport, his aircraft collided with a 'UFO'. (unknown) >>Due to the sudden collision, he was forced to make an emergency >>landing. Upon inspection of the aircraft the following damage >>was documented: the shock absorber had been torn off of one of >>the landing gear, (they didn't mention 'which' landing gear was >>affected) and there was also a dent on the bottom of the >>fuselage. >>The 'UFO' that flight# 129 collided with was observed and >>videotaped by Mexico City 'local' Victor Lopez Suarez. That, is >>the case I cited to Betsy. I have no idea what you guys are >>talking about. >>If any of our Mexican members could chime in with updated >>information it would be greatly appreciated. The case I was >>discussing has not been determined a hoax. I hope List readers >>don't begin to confuse the case I was referring to with this >>apparently solved one that Ray brought up. >>Just to put this thread back on the beam, the issue I had raised >>involved 'UFOs' and commercial aircraft safety. It is an issue >>that needs to be addressed _before_ something tragic happens. Hello Don, All, This collision case was given to Elders for his video by Jaime Maussan. I know, his judgement is 'questionable' at best. He is one of Sean David Morton's south of the border supporters. Nonetheless, Elders got this report from Maussan. I've dashed off an e-mail to Jaime asking him what he can tell me about this compelling collision case. A copy is posted below. I'm not sure if he'll even answer it. I will report any responses or information he may share -to the List- if and when I actually hear from him. It'll be most interesting to see if he confirms it and adds new insight into the event. I'm curious to know if tower personnel in Mexico City airport are concerned about UFOs as a safety issue. Mexico is a key to understanding the overall UFO phenomenon. The activity there has been intense and well documented. Even in their own press. Because we don't hear about it here in the US on the six o'clock news doesn't mean it isn't happening. There has been something _major_ going on in Mexico for more than ten years. I still can't figure out why they are not at the center of a concerted investigative effort by ufologists from all over the world. It's an important/historical series of events going on down there. Can we please hear from some Mexican researchers please? What's the latest out of Mexico City? What does anybody know about this 1994 commercial airline collision? So many questions... Here's a copy of my note to Jaime. I hope we get to hear from him. I'd like to invite him to appear as a guest on SDI and bring us up to date about the UFO doings in Mexico City. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Hola Jaime, I'm hoping that you will be able to help me with information on the following report. The facts are as follows: Mexico City International Airport, July 28, 1994 Time: 9:55pm Airplane: DC-9 en route from Guadalajara Airport to Mexico City Airport Flight# 129 Passengers: 109 + crew Pilot reporting: Raymundo Cervantes Ruano In a taped interview of the Pilot, Capt. Ruano, reports; that at precisely 9:55 pm during a landing approach to Mexico City Airport, his aircraft collided with a 'UFO.' (unknown) Due to the sudden collision, he was forced to make an emergency landing. Upon inspection of the aircraft the following damage was documented: the shock absorber had been torn off of one of the landing gear, (they didn't mention 'which' landing gear was affected) and there was also a dent on the bottom of the fuselage. The 'UFO' that flight# 129 collided with was observed and videotaped by Mexico City 'local' Victor Lopez Suarez. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Jaime, can you first... confirm that this case exists. Then, can you please tell me what, if any, were the results of local investigative efforts into the collision? Did anyone local investigate this report? I'm sure your version of the FAA did. If so, could you please share with me what you know of this matter. Thank you in advance for any light you can shed on this most interesting and compelling report. One that has implications for all, worldwide. Regards, John Velez ---------------------------------------------------------------- I'll let you guys know if I hear anything from him.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 27 Kelowna British Columbia Missing Time From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO <hbccufo@telus.net> Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 22:59:00 -0700 Fwd Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 15:11:03 -0400 Subject: Kelowna British Columbia Missing Time Kelowna, British Columbia Date: July 31, 2003 Time: approx: 2:00 a.m. Connection With Missing Time Experience This witness had no idea about the missing time event. I had a telephone call from a lady who lives in Kelowna, British Columbia today, August 26, 2003. She explained that a friend had cut out an article which ran in the Kelowna Capital Newspaper about a UFO Investigator Seeking Witnesses To A UFO Sighting. The lady told me she saw an unusual object in the night sky on July 31, 2003. She also told me she has a habit of glancing up into the sky as she has a beautiful view of the stars and it is very dark in her area. On this night the woman had already turned in, but couldn't sleep due to how warm it was in her home. The lady got up out of bed and went outside for some weird reason and when outside the lady looked towards the south. As the witness sat out looking around she spotted something, her thoughts were there shouldn't be any airplanes out here at this time of night, but there was something very strange. She watched an object traveling from east to west and described the object as being almond in shape and a luminas green in color. The witness also reports only seeing one green light. The lady reports that from their location, which was not at all far away from the two ladies who experienced the missing time, something very strange took place. She brought out her camera to take some pictures, but as she tried to take her photos, the camera would not work. It went dead! Also she reports that the evening was warm, and she could hear coyotes cutting up. But soon they became silent, and so did everything else around them including the crickets which were making some noise. She said it was if someone had clicked off a switch. The air went from a nice sweet smelling night to a musty cold in this dead silence. Also this witness said that two nights ago a person telephoned the radio station (CKOV) on an open line call in program and reported seeing a streak of light, and at the front of this streak a round ball was noted and the caller reported "it" had landed somewhere in South East Kelowna in the exact area where the green object had been witnessed, also where the two ladies had their missing time event. HBCC UFO Note: This sighting is very, very important due to the date of this sighting, the time it was witnessed, the color which was green and the shape, which is reported here to be almond in shape. Also what has me all excited over it, is due to the location where the object was observed, which was where the two ladies watched the beings on the side of the highway and the green lights, then experienced the missing time. There will be more coming on this case, also I have interviewed the second witness who had the missing time on July 31, 2003 and will be writing up the report really quick. Before I forget, I will be contacting CKOV in hopes of getting some information, and if not maybe I may get lucky and have them request that this witness to the streak of light get a hold of me. Brian Vike, Director HBCC UFO Research Canadian Toll Free UFO Hotline 1 866 262 1989 - Free call. Phone/Fax 1 250 845 2189 Editor: Canadian Communicator - Paranormal Magazine email: hbccufo@telus.net Website: http://www3.telus.net/public/wilbur8/hbcc_ufo_research.htm
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 27 Kimberley British Columbia - 08-26-03 From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO <hbccufo@telus.net> Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 01:13:55 -0700 Fwd Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 15:13:38 -0400 Subject: Kimberley British Columbia - 08-26-03 Kimberley, British Columbia Date: August 26, 2003 Time: 11:05 p.m. I received a telephone call from a Kimberley resident at 11:30 p.m. and she said she was visiting family at their townsite which is at the northern end of Kimberley, B.C., by the Cominco Mine area and she said there were a couple of them standing outside and a family member happened to notice a jet airliner going over head from east to west. The witness told me what her family member did see was certainly a jet. All of a sudden the witness saw what she thought was a shooting star just to the north of the jet but a lot higher up. She says it started out like a shooting star but then there was a flash of white light and then it happened again approx: 20 seconds later and another flash. They both stood wondering if this may have been another jet as this one was going in a northwesterly direction. But as the witness watched she mentioned that the intervals weren't the same as a jet airliner. (meaning the flashing of the jets lights). It then disappeared and then in another 20 to 30 seconds there was another flash of light. The witness says this is where it gets a bit odd and figured it wasn't another jet that she was aware of. Thinking maybe it was something the military was flying overhead. She saw a flash in front of the object and it reminded her of a laser light. She also said you could see the light zapping a good distance in front of the object. It again disappeared and in another 50 seconds or so later there was another flash of light. Thank you to the witness for the report. Brian Vike, Director HBCC UFO Research Canadian Toll Free UFO Hotline 1 866 262 1989 - Free call. Phone/Fax 1 250 845 2189 Editor: Canadian Communicator - Paranormal Magazine email: hbccufo@telus.net Website: http://www3.telus.net/public/wilbur8/hbcc_ufo_research.htm
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 27 Mars Approach & Alien Hybrid Babies From: Loren Coleman <lcoleman@maine.rr.com> Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 04:56:07 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 15:18:59 -0400 Subject: Mars Approach & Alien Hybrid Babies My nomination for the "Silliest Mars Day Article." - LC http://www.ncbuy.com/news/wireless_news.html?qdate03-08-27&nav=VIEW&id=08U9IU259 W2030827 August 27, 2003 - Wireless Flash Mars Approach Will Spawn Record Number Of Alien Hybrid Babies LOS ANGELES (Wireless Flash) -- Mars is closer to the Earth than it has been in 60,000 years -- in more ways than one. According to alien expert Andy Reiss, the Mars approach is going to lead to a record baby boom of half-Martian, half-human offspring. Reiss claims the number of so-called "hybrid babies" always increases when Mars passes close by the Earth and predicts this time around, 5 to 7 percent of all births on Earth will be E.T. hybrids. But don't go looking for little green men in your bedrooms, ladies. Reiss says although Martians are really attracted to Earth girls, they often impregnate them telepathically using their minds, not their bodies. It's certainly not the same as procreation between humans, but Reiss says most hybrids are the result of this sort of "spiritual impregnation." He says women may find themselves with a Martian bun in the oven after having vivid dreams of sex with an alien.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 27 Re: Mysteries And Anomalies On The Moon? - Hatch From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net> Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 11:34:50 -0700 Fwd Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 16:38:24 -0400 Subject: Re: Mysteries And Anomalies On The Moon? - Hatch >From: Pedro Luz Cunha <pplcunha@yahoo.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 09:16:37 -0300 (ART) >Subject: Re: Mysteries And Anomalies On The Moon? >>From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net> >>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >>Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 23:37:34 -0700 >>Subject: Re: Mysteries And Anomalies On The Moon? >>>From: Pedro Luz Cunha <pplcunha@yahoo.com> >>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >>>Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2003 10:48:38 -0300 (ART) >>>Subject: Re: Mysteries And Anomalies On The Moon? >>>>From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net> >>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >>>>Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2003 01:12:40 -0700 >>>>Subject: Re: Mysteries And Anomalies On The Moon? >>>I am writing an article and found quite a few links in >>>the internet point out to an article about this subject. >>>The article seems to be a goof history fiction one. Anyway, as I >>>am writing an article about Moon anomlies I am trying to show >>>this side of the story too. You can read about it at: >>>http://www.v-j-enterprises.com/moonger.html ><snip> >>I checked out the link, and its about as goofy as they come. Its >>an article by one Vladimir Terziski, "President of the American >>Academy of Dissident Sciences" whom and which I never heard of >>before. >Hello Larry, >I've done the same in Google. Now, do you believe that VT does >really exist? Does the Academy exists? >Pedro Cunha Hello Pedro: I am sure VT exists. The Academy is quite likely his own invention, perhaps an 'Academy of one' .. unless he includes some disciples and apostles. Best - Larry
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 27 Re: Trauma Can Bring About UFO Experiences? - From: Sheryl Gottschall <gottscha@bigpond.net.au> Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 16:53:10 +1000 Fwd Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 14:10:12 -0400 Subject: Re: Trauma Can Bring About UFO Experiences? - >From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> >To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 10:20:33 -0400 >Subject: Re: Trauma Can Bring About UFO Experiences? >>>From: Sheryl Gottschall <gottscha@bigpond.net.au> >>To: ufoupdates@sympatico.ca >>Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2003 11:42:06 +1000 >>Subject: Re: Trauma Can Bring About UFO Experiences? >>>From: Eleanor White <eleanor@raven1.net> >>>To: eleanor@raven1.net >>>Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2003 13:19:51 -0400 >>>Subject: Trauma Can Bring About UFO Experiences? >>>Wow. Never heard this before: >>>http://www.bullyonline.org/related/paranorm.htm >>>"Trauma and paranormal experiences often go hand in hand, with >>>one triggering the other. Abduction or a close encounter will >>>often result in trauma, whilst trauma from a mundane terrestrial >>>cause (e.g. accident, violence, bullying and harassment) often >>>leads to paranormal experiences such as precognition, telepathy >>>and sometimes a UFO experience." >>This wouldn't surprise me at all. It would certainly go a long >>way to explaining the paranormal history of experiencers. >>In the past I have been traumatised by serious illness and >>during a few years when I was at my most ill, I developed >>precognition, sensitivity to energies, a spontaneous ability to >>receive messages about others in text which would flash through >>my mind, and I would sense presences around me. I also found it >>difficult to be around large groups of people as I was very >>sensitive to their negative energies (their stress?). I ended up >>having a near death experience as well. All very curious as >>these show up in close encounter experiencers too. Intriguingly, >>My point is, high levels of stress can bring on paranormal >>experiences which I think it did in my situation. I believe this >>is because when humans are under extreme duress "higher >>faculties" can come into play. >>In Ken Ring's book, The Omega Project, he refers to studies done >>by Michael Shallis on electrically sensitive people. He found >>the trigger to events was stress. People who have UFO >>experiences can be electrically sensitive too. (interesting >>connection?) >>To add to this, Ken Ring found that people who had UFO >>experiences had been verbally, physically and/or emotionally >>abused as children as well as, or besides, other >>experiences.(eg. serious illness) In a large number of cases my >>own enquiries with experiencers has revealed they were under >>prolonged and heightened stress (beyond average stress levels) >>at some stage as children teenagers or young adults. >>Could this stress have been the trigger that opened the door to >>their paranormal experiences? >Psychological testing that was carried out using UFO abduction >experiencers for subjects, by highly trained, credentialed >clinicians like Dr. Aphrodite Clamar and Dr. John Mack, (to name >but two,) clearly shows that _none_ of the individuals tested >were suffering from any kind of psychosis, abnormal or >otherwise, or mental disorder/condition that they could discern. >Trauma? We _all_ have experienced 'trauma' in our lives at one >time or another. If you live and breath you have experienced a >'trauma' in one form or another. Blaming 'trauma' for UFO >sightings is like blaming the common cold. We all get those too >but as with 'trauma' there is no _proven_ connection. In spite >of what 'Ken Ring' (whoever he is) claims in his book. >To the contrary, as I have stated above, the 'real case' happens >to be that those reporting UFO sightings/encounters show no sign >of mental illness or disorder. That's a _major_ finding by real >scientists (as opposed to self-proclaimed 'experts') and one >that begs to be acknowledged and dealt with. Katarina was right >in her estimation of this suggestion regarding the role of >trauma in UFO sightings/encounters. >I have no idea who 'Ken Ring' is. I don't see "Dr." before or >after his name. His credentials and expertise are questionable >at best. I do know that "Dr." John Mack and "Dr." Aphrodite >Clamar have both reported that the folks they have tested proved >to be ok. They made no mention anywhere in their reports that >pre- existing 'trauma' may have been responsible for the >abduction or sighting reports. >How about we deal with that? Rather than some _unfounded >speculation_ from an unknown (Ken Ring?) whose only >'credentials' are; that he 'wrote a book.' You know what they >say about a room full of monkeys hammering away at typewriters >and Shakespeare don't you? Same principle applies to Ken Ring... >whoever he is. ;) Hi John, Sorry, forgot to include Ken Ring's credentials. He is a professor of psychology at the University of Connecticut, or was at the time of writing his very intriguing book, The Omega Project in 1992. His usual field has been the study of near- death experiences (or was, not sure what he's up to now) I wasn't suggesting that all people who have abduction experiences have them because they have been traumatised but I am suggesting that trauma might be one of many triggers that opens them to paranormal experiences. There's a difference. Dr Ring found similarities between persons reporting alien abductions and those who have had a near-death experience. Many aspects of their childhoods and lives before their encounters, as well as the changes they report afterward, show parallels. He suggests there is an "encounter-prone personality" type and in his own words - a distinctive, spiritually sensitive and visionary psyche that may, collectively, represent the next stage in human evolution. I thought the Omega Project to be a must read book for researchers. Just an aside, my own observation of abductees shows they are usually highly creative, innovative people who tend to be artistically inclined. They often write - poetry typically, paint, sculpt, carve or weld, play a musical instrument, sing, invent, design, the list goes on..... It appears there is a huge amount of creativity unleashed within them and working through them. To give a few examples from abductees I have spoken to, one woman is drawn to sketching dragons and mythical animals (she reports seeing dead people too); another (a man) makes Japanese swords as well as designs furniture, paints, draws and sculpts; another is a musician who also paints and writes poetry (he had a missing time experience while in the Navy); another draws Egyptian sketches on papyrus, plays guitar and the organ (he also reports seeing dead people). These are just a few of a list of people who have contacted me recently reporting abduction experiences. As you can see they clearly demonstrate this artistic inclination. The reason they tell me about this is because I ask what they do in their spare time. (just in case the suggestion of leading comes up) Regards, Sheryl
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 27 CCCRN News: Formation Report #15 - Abbotsford, From: Paul Anderson <psa@cccrn.ca> Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 11:39:50 -0700 Fwd Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 16:49:24 -0400 Subject: CCCRN News: Formation Report #15 - Abbotsford, CCCRN NEWS E-News from the Canadian Crop Circle Research Network August 27, 2003 http://www.cccrn.ca _____________________________ FORMATION REPORT #15 - ABBOTSFORD, BRITISH COLUMBIA Another formation reported yesterday: pictogram, similar to "Neptune" symbol with other circles and half circle in corn, approximately 55 metres (180 feet) long, estimated size based on aerial photos. First seen on August 13 by Mike Black while flying over the area. About 70 kilometres (46 miles) east of Vancouver and a few miles south of formations at Mission in 2002 and west of the 2003 Agassiz formation. Further details pending. Note: if the formation is still there (not known yet), a ground inspection is probably not possible until later in the first week of September or so, after I and our CCCRN British Columbia coordinators (who also live close to this location) return from our investigations in Saskatchewan. Also... A preliminary field report and more photos have been added for the Agassiz, British Columbia corn formation. A full update will be forthcoming soon in a complete combined CCCRN / BLT Research Team report on this formation, pending further studies. Additional photos and / or field reports have also been added for the Wadena, Tisdale, Steelman, Scott and Revenue formations. http://www.cccrn.ca ____________________________ CCCRN News is the e-news service of the Canadian Crop Circle Research Network, providing e-mail updates with the latest news and reports on the crop circle phenomenon in Canada, as well as other information on CCCRN-related projects and events, sent free to your e-mail To subscribe, send an e-mail with either Subscribe CCCRN News or Unsubscribe CCCRN News in the subject line to: cccrnnews@cccrn.ca The Canadian Crop Circle Research Network is a non-profit research organization which has been seriously investigating and documenting the crop circle phenomenon and other possibly related phenomena in Canada since 1995, creating a liason between researchers, farmers, the public, media and scientists C. CCCRN, 2003
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 27 UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 8 Number 32 From: John Hayes <webmaster@ufoinfo.com> Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 19:09:11 +0100 Fwd Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 14:53:05 -0400 Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 8 Number 32 Posted on behalf of Joseph Trainor. <Masinaigan@aol.com> ========================== UFO ROUNDUP Volume 8, Number 32 August 27, 2003 Editor: Joseph Trainor E-mail: <Masinaigan@aol.com> Website: http://www.ufoinfo.com/roundup/ OHIO UFOs CAUSED THE BIG BLACKOUT? "In the hours before the nation's worst blackout" on Thursday, August 14, 2003, "several transmission lines in Ohio were carrying massive amounts of power--"well above" emergency summer standards--before automatically shutting down, a company that owns the lines said Friday," August 22, 2003. "American Electric Power (AEP) owns or co-owns the power lines with FirstEnergy Corp., which is at the center of a U.S.-Canada blackout investigation. The company released the information with a timeline but didn't offer any conclusions about the cause of the failure." "The region where investigators suspect the eight- state blackout began Aug. 14 had become a black hole, sucking electricity from generators and threatening to burn transmission lines because of the overload, power company officials said. Many lines automatically shut down to prevent burnout as the blackout spread." "At some point, the power transmission systems in northern and southern Ohio separated from each other, causing electricity meant to move through FirstEnergy's system to reverse itself and flow over AEP's system through Indiana and into Michigan, then back to FirstEnergy in Ohio, power company officials say." "'Something happened in the time leading up to the blackout to the north of us,' AEP spokesman Pat Henlepp said. 'Suddenly the electrons destined for Columbus or Cincinnati or somewhere turned tail and headed north (towards Lake Erie--J.T.).'" "The power failure affected 50 million people in eight states and Canada. It shut down more than 100 power plants and knocked Cleveland's water supply off line." Curiously, strange objects were seen in the skies of northern Ohio before and during the blackout. According to Filer's Files, "George Ritter, who fought in Vietnam with the 5th Special Forces, videotaped UFOs on (Friday) August 15 (2003), the second day of the blackout. He videotaped a series of photos of large lake- freighter-size (1,000 feet or 300 meters long--J.T.) cylinders flying over his home" in Fostoria, Ohio (population 13,931), 30 miles (50 kilometers) from Lake Erie." "The video was shot on VHS tape at between 10,000 and 15,000 frames per minute. The speed is fast enough to stop and insect or bird. These craft are moving at thousands of miles per hour." In addition, eyewitness Daniel Wilson wrote, "I recently read in UFO Roundup about green helicopters being seen in Massachusetts before a power outage in Attleboro, Mass. on (Wednesday) August 13, 2003. This shook me up a bit, because on (Tuesday) August 5, 2003, a low-flying, very loud, green helicopter circled twice over my house in Painesville, Ohio (population 17,503)." "I was able to see the copter on the second pass as I ran outside to see what was going on. Hospital and bank helicopters fly over my house almost every day, but this green helicopter was not one of those. It was at about 200 feet (60 meters) in altitude." "I watched it fly off to the south, and the sound went away. About a minute later, I heard the sound again as if the helicopter was coming again. Painesville is also 30 miles (50 kilometers) east of Cleveland, and also five miles (8 kilometers) from the Perry nuclear power plant. (One of the first to shut down Aug. 14--J.T.) Yes, we did have a blackout here on August 14th." Painesville is on Route 20, approximately 25 miles (40 kilometers) west of Ashtabula, a port on Lake Erie and the site of many UFO events in recent years. (See the Minneapolis, Minn. Star-Tribune for August 23, 2003, "Before failure, Ohio lines carried heavy power load," page A8. Also Filer's Files for August 20, 2003 and UFO Roundup for August 20, 2003, ) CHUPACABRAS RUN WILD THROUGHOUT CHILE "A strange animal left a trail of blood and death at the Los Lagos commune of the Quinchilca sector" in Chile. "Fear gripped a humble peasant woman after she learned of the strange death of 50 hens and a pig at the claws of a mysterious beast which few hesitate to identify as the Chupacabra." "The hideous scene of bloodletting was discovered early in the morning" of Monday, August 18, 2003 "by Edith Mora, owner of the Los Colihues farm, located 4 kilometers (3 miles) from Los Lagos," just east of Valdivia in southern Chile. "The strong winds and rain felt early Monday morning kept folks from discovering the sinister fact, which took the lives of 50 hens and 9 geese through strange perforations on their necks, as well as the death of a large pig, who presented extensive and deep injuries on both sides and its head." "The violence of the attack was made manifest by the numerous scratches on the stall doors, one of which was completely destroyed, or all of the numerous prints, recalling those of a puma (cougar or mountain lion in the USA--J.T.) and which were evident all over the henhouse." "Oddly enough, the three watchdogs on the premises never noticed the strange animal's presence, and it is assumed that they did not hesitate to hide in order to avoid the same fate as the other victims." "'All of my birds are dead and scattered, and the henhouse door was shredded to ribbons. I was sad to see my little animals dead,' said the sorrowful woman, who is even contemplating the sale of the property and (then) moving far away. 'Some say it was a lion, although others have not dismissed the fact that it could have been the Chupacabra. Whatever it is, my birds are dead, and there's nothing to be done.'" "'Damn you, Chupacabra, you killed all of my hens!' were the resigned and angry words of Ana Luisa Morales Inostroza when she discovered at 7 a.m. yesterday (Monday, August 18, 2003) the macabre spectacle, as she went, as is her custom, to feed her farm animals." "Seven chickens in one of her two henhouses were dead, scattered all over the dirt floor. Another small bird was agonizing. The dead birds has lost most of their plumage and presented 2-centimeter (0.8-inch) puncture marks on their necks. The dry flesh of the animals' interiors could be seen through the puncture, as though a strange object had been introduced into the dead poultry's bodies to draw their blood." The attack took place at Sra. Morales's home on the Calle Los Castanos (street) in Las Cruces, and the owner "reported the event to the Carabineros (Chilean national police--J.T.) barracks at Las Cruces, noting that the Chupacabra was responsible." "Two dogs guard the house of Ana Luisa Morales, and on an adjacent property, two mastiffs reinforce the sector's safety." "'These birds have no blood. You can see how pale they are. There's no doubt that it was the Chupacabra, whom they say was in Santiago but has appeared in Las Cruces,' she said, 'I believe that it was the Chupacabra that came in at four in the morning, because at that time everyone is asleep, even the animals.'" "There was a blackout that night. It was on Wednesday (August 13, 2003), and the labor union had called for a national workers' strike. But all was calm in Poblacion Idahue. Suddenly, there was a noise. Someone was poking around the house of Samuel Bustos." Bustos, "the announcer for Radio El Carbon, looked out his rear door. His 10-year-old son," Samuel Antonio Bustos, "shined a flashlight. They took some steps into the backyard and then found a white duck, which was frightened by his presence. Bustos's wife, Alicia, raised six of these animals." "Maluco, the neighbors' dog, was excited and barked ceaselessly. Samuel and his son went into the house and fell asleep. But at three in the morning, there was another commotion. There was no doubt that a prowler lurked outside. Curiously, the dogs did not make any noise." "'At around 11 in the morning, I went out to feed them, and I found them dead,' recalls little Samuel Antonio. The boy saw three of them. Another two were in a hard-to-reach corner. A third (duck) was agonizing in the bushes along Idahue Creek, which runs through the backyard of the Bustos house." "'They had two small perforations marked on their throats. I'm sure that this was not the work of a dog, much less that of a human,' said Bustos." "Prints resembling those of a dog were found in the mud, but it is clearly evident that these (prints) are larger." "Samuel Bustos's neighbor approached him to say that early last Tuesday (August 12, 2003) she found four of her ducks dead. The birds showed the same wounds." "Esteban Hidalgo, (another) one of Bustos's neighbors, claims having seen from his window a black creature, one meter (3 feet, 3 inches) tall, crouching among the plants." "Mystery increased when Jorge Bello, who lives in front of the Frederico Schwager Stadium in Coronel, phoned Bustos Friday afternoon to tell him that he and his wife had seen a strange 'bird' flying over their house. It looked like a bat but was much larger." "No one claims it's the Chupacabra, but no one dismisses the possibility, either." (See the Chilean newspapers Diario Austral de Valdivia for August 19, 2003, "Mysterious beast slays 50 hens, 9 geese, 1 pig;" El Lider de San Antonio for August 19, 2003, "Chupacabra attack reported;" and Cronica for August 18, 2003, "Chupacabra bares its fangs yet again." Muchas gracias a Scott Corrales, Gloria Coluchi y Liliana Nunez para estos articulos de diario.) CHUPACABRA CONTINUES ITS RAMPAGE IN NICARAGUA "Residents of the rural communities of El Barro, Tolapa and Las Marias," in the department (state) of Leon in northern Nicaragua "are frightened of being stalked by the alleged Chupacabra, to whom they ascribe the deaths of 55 goats and sheep, causing financial losses to local farmers." "'Goats and sheep are harmless animals that are turning up dead in the pens and groves of private properties. Their bodies do not exhibit any signs of struggle, except for two deep holes in the neck area and in the legs, where the so-called Chupacabra bites to stun its victim and later sucks their blood,' explained Jorge Luis Talavera, a rancher from Tolapa." "He explained that, as a rule, the Chupacabra attacks female animals and helpless newborns under cover of darkness. He added that he has lost 22 animals to the unnatural creature in less than eight days." "Faced with the predations of the Chupacabra, local peasants have taken steps to adequately fence their animal pens." "Sra. Felix Albertina Brenes, a peasant from El Barro, stated that two months ago, at midnight, the Chupacabra visited her property for the first time. 'It killed five of the seven sheep I had in the yard. We only heard the racket and the running of the frightened sheep-- they were trying to defend themselves, banging into the wire fence and the house walls.'" "Although they could hear the commotion, they were too scared to go out at that time of night, and, at sunrise, found five of the seven sheep 'dead and completely bloodless, with holes in their throats,' mourned the humble peasant woman." "There are more persons affected by the Chupacabra in Malpaisillo, such as Sra. Pilar Ocan, who lost six Peliguey sheep. Jeronimo Blano lost eight, and Maria Carcamo lost 12." (See the Nicaraguan newspaper La Prensa for August 17, 2003, "Terrified of the Chupacabras." Muchas gracias a Scott Corrales y Gloria Coluchi para esto articulo de diario.) CHILEAN PHOTOGRAPHER CATCHES A UFO ON FILM "Photographer Patricio Lara was startled a few days ago when he developed photos taken late last month (Monday, July 31, 2003) in Paricanota" in northern Chile "in order to have photos for his Web site." "Beyond the spectacular landscape, nothing unusual attracted his attention during his trip through the zone. But a few days later, after his return to Santiago de Chile, he began to look at the images obtained and realized that a strange object in the sky had been undetected." "The photo in question was taken in the vicinity of Copaquilla, looking east over the canyon on July 31 at 1:30 p.m." "'We were taken to a lookout called Mallku, from which Chapiquina can be seen in the distance. I found that the landscape was beautiful, so I started taking pictures, panning with a Nikon camera, using an 80-200 millimeter lens and Fuji 100 ASA film,' he said." "According to his testimony, neither he nor the people with him saw anything unusual at the time 'because I would have otherwise taken more photos, since I was carrying a 500 millimeter telephoto lens, which could have been used for greater detail. I only just found out about the object when I developed the roll.'" Lara checked the lens, the slide and other exposures to insure that the image was not caused "by a defect in the film. He found no abnormalities." "The image shows the pampa, the Andean cordillera and a clear sky, and, toward the upper left, a rhomboidal opaque form tilted to the left. Says the photographer, 'Calculating the distance of the object and the proportions, it must have been 10 meters (33 feet) in diameter." (See the Chilean newspaper La Estrella de Arica for August 21, 2003, "UFO over Copaquilla?" Muchas gracias a Scott Corrales y Gloria Coluchi para esto articulo de diario.) (Editor's Comment: Maybe this is the UFO that's dropping off those Chupacabras all over Chile.) UFOs APPEAR AGAIN IN VENEZUELA On Tuesday, August 19, 2003, at 8:35 p.m., "Sra. Enza Colucci, who was returning from Los Samanes to her home in Santa Monica," a suburb of Caracas, the capital of Venezuela, "was followed by an enormous round object, surrounded by blinking blue lights." "Sra. Colucci was very excited, and her chauffeur, Alberto Amoran, phoned CEINPLA," a Venezuelan UFO research group, "to file a report and make their experience known. They regret not having had a camera with them." "After midnight on Wednesday," August 20, 2003, "while groups opposing the government of President Hugo Chavez reflected their support of a possible recall in the streets of Caracas, three persons were able to witness the displacement of a luminous object flying over the Cerro El Avila (mountain)." "The event was reported at 12:30 a.m. when the three youths were headed to their home in the barrio El Pedregal (neighborhood) of La Castellana after watching the fireworks and the political demonstration, which had ended shortly before their sighting." "According to one of the witnesses, who preferred anonymity to avoid ridicule, the object constantly changed colors and remained suspended in the air for a few seconds before hiding behind the mountain after a powerful zigzag motion." (See Mundo Misterioso for August 21, 2003, "Luminous object seen over El Avila, Caracas." Muchas gracias a Scott Corrales, Roger Ivan Lopez y Martha Rosenthal para esto articulo de diario.) UFO SIGHTED BY TEEN IN SOUTHWESTERN TURKEY On Wednesday, August 13, 2003, at 11:30 p.m., eyewitness Arzum, 18, "was listening to my Walkman tape on my balcony" in Denizli, a city in southwestern Turkey about 310 kilometers (186 miles) from Ankara, the national capital, when he spotted a UFO. Arzum reported, "I was gazing at the sky. All of a sudden, an ellipse-shaped object that was bigger than a star and very bright passed me by. I got so excited I stood up at once. My relatives noticed my sudden ascent." "The object was huge. It could not be compared to the stars. It was the size of a 50 Turkish lira coin (The same as a quarter or a 25-cent USA coin--J.T.) But it looked like an oval or ellipse shape. It sped by on a diagonal line very quickly. It did not leave any physical marks behind. It was too high for me to smell, hear or feel any heat waves. I have never seen anything like this. The object I have seen was not an asteroid, meteor, star, comet or a planet. That I am sure of." (Email Form Report) MORE UFOs APPEAR OVER NORTH BAY, ONTARIO On Tuesday, August 19, 2003, at 10:30 p.m., Murray Whitman reported, "I had just let my dogs out for their nightly duty and, while I was waiting for them, I was looking at the sky, watching for satellites" In North Bay, Ontario, Canada (population 54,332), located 160 miles (266 kilometers) north of Toronto, "when I saw this triangular shape very high in the sky, travelling south to north at a very fast rate of speed." "A second later, a second object of the same shape and size came up behind the first one, and they seemed to fly in formation toward the west. There was no sound, and the objects were very high in the sky. The sighting took place in about five or six seconds. Then they were out of sight." "Being a pilot myself, I know by the speed they were not any aircraft that I'm aware of, and the speed had to be thousands of miles per hour, as the distance they covered in that short time made even satellites--which travel at about 14,000 miles per hour--seem extremely slow." "Shapes were triangular, and the color was a reddish and orange mix" with "an estimated speed of 50,000 to 60,000 miles per hour (65,000 to 100,000 kilometers per hour--J.T.)." (Many thanks to Brian Vike for this report.) UFO FLOTILLA SPOTTED IN FORT McMURRAY, ALBERTA On Monday, August 11, 2003, at 1:20 a.m., Aaron Heibert reported, "While outside on the deck, chatting with my wife" in Fort McMurray, Alberta, Canada (population 34,706) "I happened to look up and noticed a small, reddish glaring light, non-blinking, flying northwest at a very high altitude and at a speed at least four times faster than commercial airliners." "I thought it may have been test runs from Cold Lake (Canadian Forces) airforce (CFB) base outside of Edmonton, until I counted 11 more of these objects heading in the same direction, not too far behind one another. None were blinking, just solid red and moving very fast." "After I counted eleven, I was stumped and heading back into the house and decided to look up once more and noticed a 12th object come from the same direction (southwest), double the speed of the other 11. Then came to a stop slowly for at least 30 seconds. Then it accelerated and left in the same direction (northwest) as the rest." The UFOs had "a red glow, almost like aircraft lights but a bit brighter. Altitude was at least 25,000 feet (7,500 meters) as the cloud ceiling that evening was 25,000 feet, and there were few clouds with lots of breaks (open sky--J.T.) They travelled in single file, approximately 1 kilometer (0.6 miles) between the first three. The fourth followed about 10 seconds after the third., followed by the fifth through eighth objects. Objects 9 through 12 were uniform in speed and distance, just like the first three." (Many thanks to Brian Vike for this report.) CROP CIRCLES APPEAR FAR AND WIDE IN CANADA Last week crop circles appeared quite suddenly in three of Canada's provinces. A second crop circle appeared in Cranbrook, Ontario, "south of the first formation and reportedly more complex." In Agassiz, British Columbia, about 100 kilometers (60 miles) east of Vancouver, "the formation consisted of a circle with a short path and two smaller rectangles next to it in cattle corn." The Agassiz formation "was not too far from the location of two formations in cattle corn at Mission, B.C. in 2002." On Wednesday, August 20, 2003, "a third formation appeared in Cranbrook, Ont. The farmer wanted no publicity and the field is already harvested." In Wadena, Saskatchewan (population 1,477), a town on Provincial Highway 5 about 90 miles (144 kilometers) east of Saskatoon, there appeared "four circles in barley. Plants lightly pressed to ground. Expulsion cavities in stalk nodes." A "single circle" appeared in Midale, Sask. (population 572), a town on Provincial Highways 39 and 361, about 40 miles (64 kilometers) north of Canada's border with the USA. (Editor's Note: Midale was the site of elaborate crop circles in 2001 and 2002.) In Tisdale, Sask., the first formation consisted of "four circles in a line, from smallest to largest. An outer ring connects the smallest and largest together. The largest circle has a standing crescent within it." On Saturday, August 23, 2003, a second formation appeared in Tisdale, but it was rapidly combined by the farmer. Finally, in Scott, Sask., a farmer discovered "two large circles in wheat. Near the location of the Revenue, Sask. formation" discovered two weeks ago. (Many thanks to Paul Anderson of Canadian Crop Circles Research Foundation for these news reports.) From the UFO Files... 2002: INDIA'S MYSTERIOUS PREHISTORIC TEMPLE India's southern state of Tamil Nadu is home to several ancient temples, of which the most mysterious is the Ranganatha temple. "The Ranganatha temple...is the largest temple complex in India. It is situated on a large island in the middle of the Kaveri River. The central temple building is surounded by seven external boundary walls. According to some, the seven boundary walls represent the seven material coverings of the eternal self, the atma (Hindi for soul--J.T.). And the path a pilgrim takes through the gates of the seven walls therefore represents a progressive process of spiritual realization." How old is the Ranganatha temple? Hindus believe that it is very old indeed. The Chaltanya Charitamitra, a Sixteenth Century biography of the avatara Chaltanya Mahaprabhu, states, "It is said that in the year 289 of the Age of Kali, the Alvar (Hindi for saint--J.T.) of the name Tondaradippadi was born...He prepared the third boundary wall of the Ranganatha temple." "According to the Vedic cosmological calendar, time proceeds in cycles or ages called yugas. There are four yugas in each cycle: a Satya Yuga, a Dvapara Yuga, a Treta Yuga and a Kali Yuga. A cycle of four yugas lasts 4,320,000 years," which by some strange coincidence is exactly how long it takes our Milky Way galaxy to complete one revolution. "The Kali Yuga began 5,105 years ago, in the year 3,102 B.C., according to our Western calendar. So year 289 of the Kali Yuga corresponds to the Western year 2,813 B.C. This means that the South India Alvar Tondaradippadi was born 4,816 years ago. If he built the third boundary wall of the Ranganatha temple during his lifetime, that means that this Vedic temple has existed for at least five thousand years." "This contradicts the standard Western account of the antiquity of Vedic culture in India. According to the standard Western account, the Vedic culture goes back no further than 3,500 years in India." In a recent magazine article, maverick archaeologist Michael A. Cremo stated, "The age of the Ranganatha temple could go back much further than five thousand years. The main deity worshipped in the Ranganatha temple was a reclining form of Vishnu." (Editor's Note: Similar to the "reclining" rain-god Tlaloc, who was worshipped by the Toltecs of ancient Mexico.) "During the time of the avatara Rama, the deity was taken by vimana (the UFO or flying machine of the Hindu Puranas--J.T.) for the purpose of transporting it to the island kingdom of Lanka in the south. But along the way, the vimana landed in South India. According to the conditions of transport, if the deity touched ground before its final destination, it would remain there and would go no further. So the deity remained in the place where it landed, and a local king built a temple to accomodate the deity." "How long ago was that temple built?" Cremo wrote, "The construction of the temple occurred during the time of the avatar Rama, who lived toward the beginning of the Treta Yuga. The Treta Yuga of the current cycle began about 2,155,000 years ago and ended about 840,000 years ago. That would mean the temple was constructed about two million years ago." However, some Hindu pandits claim that "Rama appeared in the Treta Yuga of the fourth yuga cycle before the present one. If that is true, then the temple may have been constructed almost 20 million years ago." "That original temple, according to traditional sources, was later lost and covered by sand and jungle. In more recent times, over five thousand years ago, a local king uncovered the deity and began construction of the current temple." "On the roof of the central temple building, just above the place where the deity (Vishnu) rests inside, there is a gold-covered cupola. This cupola is called in Sanskrit vimana, perhaps a reference to the aircraft by which the deity was transported to its present location. And the third boundary wall around the central temple building housing the deity was constructed by Tondaradippadi, who was born in 2,813 B.C." Is there any way to determine the exact age of the Ranganatha temple? Cremo thinks there is. He and some Indian archaeologists have petitioned the national government in New Delhi for permits to do some archaeological work at the temple in December 2003. "The idea will be to see if the present temple is built upon older foundations," Cremo wrote, "Excavations might also reveal Vedic artifacts connected in strata five thousand years old or older. It may also be possible that part of the current structure is quite old. If such parts can be identified, there are also possibilities for dating them. For example, the mortar between the stones could contain organic materials that could be dated by the radiocarbon (Carbon-14) method" or by amino acid testing. (See Atlantis Rising No. 40 for July/August 2003, "The Forbidden Archaeologist" by Michael A. Cremo, pages 18, 20 and 21.) That's it for this week. Join us next time for more UFO, Fortean and paranormal news from around the planet Earth, brought to you by "the paper that goes home--UFO Roundup." See you in seven days. UFO ROUNDUP: Copyright 2003 by Masinaigan Productions, all rights reserved. Readers may post news items from UFO Roundup on their Web sites or in news groups provided that they credit the newsletter and its editor by name and list the date of issue in which the item first appeared. E-Mail Reports to: Joseph Trainor <Masinaigan@aol.com> or use the Sighting Report Form at: http://www.ufoinfo.com/forms/form_sighting.htm -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Website comments: John Hayes <webmaster@ufoinfo.com> UFOINFO: http://www.ufoinfo.com Official Archives for UFO Roundup, AUFORN Australian UFO Reports and Experiences, UFO + PSI Magazine plus archives of Humanoid Sighting Reports (Albert Rosales), Filer's Files, Oz Files, UFO News UK. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- UFO Roundup is only sent to subscribers. If you wish to unsubscribe or feel you have received the bulletin in error, please write to: <webmaster@ufoinfo.com> With the subject: Unsubscribe UFO Roundup. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 27 Re: Walton Case Redux - Maccabee From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com> Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 22:19:23 -0400 Fwd Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 22:34:10 -0400 Subject: Re: Walton Case Redux - Maccabee >From: Minna Hyvonen <minna.hyvonen@kolumbus.fi> >To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 17:46:33 +0300 >Subject: Walton Case Redux >Forgive me folks for digging up this old skeleton from the >closet where it probably had developed a huge pile of dust all >over it. I know this chewing-gum may begin to taste like old >pair of shoes. But unfortunately I'm part of the next >generation, which probably always will start to play the same >old records again and again... >I'm making a database about Walton case for our net-pages. I'm >planning to add an article about the case, and maybe (probably >not necessary though) some background information, i.e. about >work of some researchers etc. <snip> >7. Has anything new came up about the "Walton episode" after >Travis's two books and the movie Fire In the Sky? As I recall, Walton and the others passed lie detector tests administered in 1995 or 96 (?) just before the movie Fire In the Sky came out.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 28 Re: Walton Case Redux - Young From: Kenny Young <ufo@fuse.net> Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 22:24:58 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 09:04:12 -0400 Subject: Re: Walton Case Redux - Young >From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 22:19:23 -0400 >Subject: Re: Walton Case Redux >As I recall, Walton and the others passed lie detector tests >administered in 1995 or 96 (?) just before the movie Fire In the >Sky came out. Yes it was Jerry Black that was particularly instrumental in the Walton polygraph situation, and he frequently offers the reminder that he is willing to take questions on this issue or the Gulf Breeze/Ed Walters hoax at the toll free number that can be found online at: http://home.fuse.net/ufo/JBLACK.html
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 28 Chilean Congress Acknowledges Importance of UFO From: Scott Corrales <lornis1@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 09:54:03 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 15:40:48 -0400 Subject: Chilean Congress Acknowledges Importance of UFO SOURCE: www.ovnivision.net DATE: August 28, 2003 CONGRESS ACKNOWLEDGES IMPORTANCE OF UFO RESEARCH Chilean parlamentarians have acknowledged the importance of UFO Research. Members of the Defense Committee of the Chamber of Deputies analyze the UFO problem for the first time in history. VALPARAISO, Aug. 27 - Members of the Defense Committee of the Chilean Chamber of Deputies analyzed for the first time ever information concerning the UFO phenomenon. During its session yesterday, they heard from representatives of the Comit=E9 de Estudio de Fenomenos Aereos Anomalos (CEFAA) and the director of the OVNIVISION Chile research organization. The session was held on the third floor of the national congress building and started after 18:30 hours with a presentation by Cristian Riffo, director of OVNIVISION, whose opening words were that "UFO" is not synonymous with "alien". "I wish to make clear that UFO is not synonymous with aliens, Martians, or little green men from Mars. UFO is an unknown phenomenon that cannot be explained in conventional terms. Whether or not UFOs are alien in origin has not been ascertained. But that is a subject for another discussion." Later on, Riffo made known a series of cases involving pilots and air traffic controllers. All of these cases involve eyewitness reports. Events occurred at the Chacalluta, Tepual, Pichoy, Tobalaba, Arturo Martinez Benitez, Cerro Moreno and El Loa events were discussed. Riffo handed the deputies a 15-page dossier containing the details of these events. Ultimately, OVNIVISION's director asked parliamentarians to create a multidisciplinary committee to study the phenomenon. "We believe that it is necessary to create a Civilian Research Committee of the UFO phenomenon, made up of an intedisciplinary team of researchers. Its goal would be to perform a serious and detailed study of unknown phenomena in the skies and seas of Chile." Deputy Arturo Cardemil, chairman of the Defense Committee, told the media that the UFO phenomenon must be studied and that it has sometimes distrupted the normal operation of air traffic operations. "We must place ourselves at the level of the developed nations which have establish comissions to deal with this subject. We are not prepared to deal with a contingency related to this subject," he said. The remaining parliamentarians were very interested in hearing further details regarding the phenomenon and requested OVNIVISION's director to submit information regularly. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Translation (C) 2003 Scott Corrales Institute of Hispanic Ufology (IHU) Special thanks to Liliana Nunez O.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 28 Re: UFOIN? - Roberts From: Andy Roberts <aj.roberts@blueyonder.co.uk> Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 15:34:53 +0100 Fwd Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 15:43:30 -0400 Subject: Re: UFOIN? - Roberts >From: Roy Hale <roy@thelosthaven.co.uk> >To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 05:26:01 +0100 >Subject: Re: UFOIN? Roy, bless him, replied to Dave C.... >Are you quite sure about that? Do you mean to say, that UFOIN >have no sway with any officials who are the holders of such UFO >DATA? Don't be silly Roy. We just use a set of fascinating new research tools called the 'postal service' and the 'brain'. It's amazing what a combination of the two can achieve. The trick is both knowing your UFO history and knowing what questions to ask. >Did I read just last year, that Jenny Randles was in >secret talks with the MOD, on how to advise the MOD after the >Rendelsham event? Would this indicate, more than just a normal >relationship, than your average public UFO group? I don't know _did_ you read this? Are we at the stage where we have to tell you what you've read? >Sure, but it seems that UFOIN have obviously learnt something >from the MOD, as questions have been answered on a forced basis. See first answer. >If the MOD have told us, they have no interest in UFOs, then >files are uncovered, and put out in print media, would you >consider that the MOD were telling non-truths - gee, sounds like >the Hutton inquiry - and that files were being withheld? If >files were not being withheld by the MOD, what was Operation >Right To Know, all about? Oh dear. Go away Roy, read Out Of The Shadows and all your questions will ahve been answered. Happy Trails Andy
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 28 Re: Private Aircraft Damage Event - Velez From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 13:51:39 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 16:07:07 -0400 Subject: Re: Private Aircraft Damage Event - Velez >From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 23:32:45 -0300 >Subject: Re: Private Aircraft Damage Event >>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> >>Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 18:12:08 -0400 >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>Subject: Re: Private Aircraft Damage Event <snip> Hi Don, You wrote: >As you know that's one of the areas that I'm interested in, >actually my chief interest at present, particularly where >Canadian airline pilots are concerned. The possibility of an >accident ocurring due to over controlling the aircraft or over >stressing the aircraft when confronted with an anomalous object >is of real concern - not to mention the possibility of passenger >injury or death as a result. Don, I've been recording anomalous objects (spheres, discs) in and around the take-off and landing corridors at nearby JFK International airport for at least six years now. I have posted repeatedly about my concern that one of these 'whochamacallits' may one day cause a serious accident. It's no joke. These 'things' whatever they are are real and they are there. And they are noodling around in the same airspace that is being used by commercial airliners. >I had a message made up to send then lost it again due to soem >screwup with my Netscape account. I've been trying to find a >good picture of the right or left main gear leg and oleo on a >DC-9. No luck so far. I might have to make a drawing and send it >as an attachment. If I have to, I'll try to dupe the portion of the video where this case is being presented. They interview the pilot Capt. Ruano along with two technicians that work in the control tower at Mexico City International airport. It is a most compelling report. >Let me know how you make out. Well, I wrote to Maussan but who if or when I'll hear back from him. If I do, you'll be the first to know. I may send copies of everything to Dick Haines or Ted Roe at NARCAP for their records. (If) the case turns out to be a 'case' that is. >Lee Elders - well you know. Yeah, I know! But we can't afford to throw the baby out with the bath water on a case such as this. The report itself is much more important than 'who' is bringing it to our attention. A case such as this needs to be checked out. >But I have had some contact off-List from our South and Central >American investigators and they are giving it the thumbs down. South America and Central America is not 'Mexico.' I'd like to hear from some Mexican investigators or from Maussan himself about this case before I chuck it in the trash bin. >Thanks for forwarding your e-mail. Not at all. Glad to be 'useful.' ;) John Velez
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 28 Re: Kelowna British Columbia Missing Time - Velez From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 14:38:23 -0400 Fwd Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 16:11:26 -0400 Subject: Re: Kelowna British Columbia Missing Time - Velez >From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO <hbccufo@telus.net> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 22:59:00 -0700 >Subject: Kelowna British Columbia Missing Time Hello Brian, You wrote: >Kelowna, British Columbia >Date: July 31, 2003 >Time: approx: 2:00 a.m. >Connection With Missing Time Experience Oh you poor, poor sod. 'Missing time' reports eh? If you were going to take on this work, it was inevitable that you would run into 'contact' cases at some point. It's a long and dark rabbit hole that you have fallen into, Alice. <g> >The lady told me she saw an unusual object in the night sky on >July 31, 2003. She also told me she has a habit of glancing up >into the sky as she has a beautiful view of the stars and it is >very dark in her area. On this night the woman had already >turned in, but couldn't sleep due to how warm it was in her >home. The lady got up out of bed and went outside for some weird >reason and when outside the lady looked towards the south. There it is again and the reason I am responding. "For some weird reason" the lady went outside. How many times does that same phrase come up in UFO sighting/contact reports? I have heard it before enough times for it to have gotten my attention. More importantly, it has happened to me. That is why I am sensitive to that 'phrase.' Why it gets my attention. I'd like to skip past all the 'do UFOs exist' questions for a moment and touch upon an aspect of the UFO phenomena that makes a lot of people cringe and uncomfortable; in 'some' cases, there appears to be mental or telepathic contact between the witness/ participant in the event and the UFO/occupants of the UFO. That simple phrase, "for some weird reason" masks a belief on the part of the person reporting that it is more than mere coincidence that they were involved in the sighting. It 'implies' that they were somehow invited/summoned to witness the event. I have had UFO sighting incidents where; "for some weird reason" as I was leaving the house to go to a regularly scheduled band rehearsal (something I look forward to) I suddenly and for no reason stopped in my tracks, turned around and went to my backyard instead to look up at the sky. Where I would have a UFO sighting. Coincidence? Maybe. But what a 'coincidence' eh? I have also reported that on a couple of occasions the spheres/ discs would respond to my thoughts. I'm not alone in reporting this kind of apparent 'telepathic' UFO related phenomena either. Others have reported the exact same thing. It's just one of those UFO report elements that is so strange unto itself, so threatening in its implications, that few dare to contemplate them seriously for more than just a moment. It's way too unnerving intellectually and emotionally to do so. But, none of that takes away one iota of importance from the fact that it continues to come up time and again in UFO sighting reports. At some point in time, we'll all have to entertain the very real possibility that there are active/live and maybe even telepathic minds on board those unknown aerial objects. I know, we need more science and less speculation. That doesn't mean that we shouldn't do it from time to time just to see what it is we think we know. Best of luck to you Brian. Thank you for sharing these reports with us. Regards, John Velez
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 28 Re: UFOIN? - Clarke From: David Clarke <cd292@crazydiamonds.fsnet.co.uk> Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 20:00:09 +0100 Fwd Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 16:13:49 -0400 Subject: Re: UFOIN? - Clarke >From: Roy Hale <roy@thelosthaven.co.uk> >To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 05:26:01 +0100 >Subject: Re: UFOIN? >>From: David Clarke <cd292@crazydiamonds.fsnet.co.uk> >>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >>Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 20:52:24 +0100 >>Subject: Re: UFOIN? >UFOIN, or any of individuals associated with that acronym, have >no more influence upon the release of UFO material than anyone >else. All we are doing is replicating the hard work of people >like Jan Aldrich, Barry Greenwood and Robert Todd in the USA, >who have spent years of their lives digging out obscure >documents from reluctant agencies. Roy, >Are you quite sure about that? Yes >Do you mean to say, that UFOIN >have no sway with any officials who are the holders of such UFO >DATA? No sway whatsoever, other than via the normal avenues open to anyone else. >Did I read just last year, that Jenny Randles was in >secret talks with the MOD, on how to advise the MOD after the >Rendelsham event? Would this indicate, more than just a normal >relationship, than your average public UFO group? Yes it would, if it were true, which is isn't. The only contact Jenny has had with MOD on Rendlesham is the usual exchange of letters, plus the visit she made to MOD Main Building with Brenda and Dot back in 1982, where she met Pam Titchmarsh, one of Nick Pope's predecessors. There's nothing secret about that, as the full story is told in her book Skycrash (paperback edition, 1986), pp 187- 196. I'm surprised you haven't read it Roy, I thought this was common knowledge. >Sure, but it seems that UFOIN have obviously learnt something >from the MOD, as questions have been answered on a forced basis. What does this mean? >If the MOD have told us, they have no interest in UFOs, then >files are uncovered, and put out in print media, would you >consider that the MOD were telling non-truths - gee, sounds like >the Hutton inquiry - and that files were being withheld? If >files were not being withheld by the MOD, what was Operation >Right To Know, all about? Roy, do you know anything about the Public Records Act and the 30 year rule on the release of documents? Obviously not or you would not ask such a redundant question. The retention of official documents - whether they be MOD, Home Office, whatever - for 30 years has been on the statute books since 1958, well before I was born, so you can't blame me for that one. See the PRO website, www.pro.gov.uk It's all explained there in black and white. No mystery, no conspiracy. Have you read anything about the Freedom of Information Act and how it works Roy? >And wasn't Rendelsham covered up by the MOD, withheld for years? Not according to our friend Nick Pope, but he seems a little confused on that one. Under the 30 year rule, as I'm sure Nick will confirm, the Rendlesham file would not have been released until 2011 at the earliest, or even later as the 30 years begin on the last action taken on the file, which was in 1994. That the file was released was entirely due to the Open Government scheme, in advance of the FOIA, which allows members of the public like me to request advance release of files. Early in 2001 I wrote to the MOD under the Code requesting the release of the file, and hey presto, in May they sent me a copy through the post. Simple as that Roy! Amazing, isn't it, especially seeing as there is this huge conspiracy to with-hold files on UFOs. The nice MOD people have now placed the entire file on their website too, so you can download all 150 odd pages into the privacy of your living room. The full circumstances surrounding the release of the file are explained in the report by the Information Commissioner, Government Ombudsman, Case No A29/02 'Refusal to release information relating to the Rendlesham Forest incident.' >>Given the above - and there is much more - I'd like to know how >>Roy can justify his claim that UFOIN has not made its findings >>openly available to everyone. >Do you receive UFO sightings from the public, and what is your >success rate on solving their sightings? Here's one for you: Do you write these questions on cards and then pull them out of a hat? best, Dave Clarke
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 28 UK Multiple Witness UFO Sighting From: Chris Parr <cparr@talk21.com> Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 23:25:07 +0100 Fwd Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 20:10:53 -0400 Subject: UK Multiple Witness UFO Sighting At approx 21-40 hour GMT on the evening of Saturday 23rd August, a ufo was witnessed by several members of the public in several locations around West Cumbria. Front page Article from Whitehaven News 28-8-03 UFO Spotted Over Town A UFO was spotted over Whitehaven on Saturday night. People in the Corkickle area of Whitehaven saw a big star surrounded by white lights and what appeared to be a framework. One of the residents, John Burns, of Irt Avenue came into the Whitehaven News office to report the sighting. "It was pear shaped and came in from the Solway Firth over the valley. There were no navigational lights, just white lights all round it and some sort of fabrication linking the thing up. It was very unusual. I had never seen anything like it - and none of us had been drinking". There was also a twist in the tale of the so-called flying saucer. "just as it went in a south easterly direction towards the lake district ,something broke off or was jettisoned, falling to earth like a flash of light" said an amazed Mr Burns. ----- On a personal contribution, I was contacted by a witness within five minutes of the sighting and was unable to witness anything due to a roughly 60% cloud covering of the night sky. They witnessed the object approaching from the Irish sea and passing overhead and described the object to be shape and colour as an orange streetlight. The witness experienced her sighting accompanied by several members of the public enjoying the fresh air a countryside beer garden and the observing gathering continued to witness the "ufo" release two separate briefly illuminated objects before going out of view. Another witnessed contacted me about the same ufo sighting and had taken a digital photo of the object with his mobile phone which had been of minimal quality. As an aside, there have been no visible ISS passes in this area for around three weeks. I have been the skies around the West Cumbrian coast for several years and this area continues to have a reputation for ufo reports. The coastal area hosts regular DERA exercises ranging from the Eskmeals facility ( West Cumbria ) and the West Freugh DERA facility at Kirkcudbright on the coast of south west Scotland. Illumination flare exercises in these areas are held on a regular basis, yet these are mainly organised around 10-30 AM and are not usually inland, and one cannot ignore the striking parallels with the Phoenix ufo lights. The West Cumbria coastline continues to throw up mysterious light forms. In the past, RAF Hercules and Nimrods have passed over the Solway firth and have switched off their prominent lights which can baffle the most experienced onlooker into believing they have witnessed a mystery craft. I believe that there is an excellent chance that someone may have captured this relatively "slow moving" aerial object on video and hope this information may assist any ufologists or ufo groups in the UK or elsewhere. Regards Chris Parr
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 30 Re: Ray Stanford - Stanford From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 12:48:28 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 16:01:48 -0400 Subject: Re: Ray Stanford - Stanford >From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker@earthlink.net> >To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 03:28:19 -0400 >Subject: Re: Ray Stanford >>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 21:36:18 +0000 >>Subject: Ray Stanford <snip> >>In my opinion, his false and >>inaccurate portrayal in his Socorro book of what transpired at >>NASA in regard to his sample analysis is simply more of the >>same. He portrays me as a dupe (if not a participant) in a >>cover-up. What utter bull! <snip> >Well, Dick, I am not surprised at another of your 'out-of-the- >blue' attacks on me (I've gotten kind of used to and amused by >them), nor of your willingness to in desperation bring up >uninvestigated things you see on the internet in an attempt to >smear me for your own ends; but this time you have stooped to >something that I thought would have been beneath you. You have >told an outright falsehood! >Fellow List members, here is the absolute 100% falsehood Dick >has told you: "I have seen his notebooks of 'propulsion >physics'.... >I read that to my wife and she - who was present with us any >time Dick Hall was ever over here to visit - laughed and said, >"I wonder if Dick's getting a bit senile. He couldn't possibly >have seen any notebooks (not even a single one) on propulsion >physics here, because you've never had any!" >Of course, had Dick actually seen any such notebooks, they would >naturally have been (to use his words), "unverified, non-peer- >reviewed", simply because personal notebooks are hardly the kind >of thing one submits to scientific journals for peer review in >the context of consideration for publication! But only the >delusional see things that are not really there, and there were >no such notebooks - and there still are not. >I never thought I might have to call Dick Hall an outright liar, >but I swear my life that Dick's claim of seeing notebooks of >propulsion physics by me has not even a smidgen of truth in it >and is either total delusion or a total lie. >Sorry, Dick, but when anyone tells falsehoods about me, I call >it exactly what it is. Next time, have the courage to try and >attack the quality of my UFO research with facts pertinent to >the issue, not fantasy. I should think a good philosopher might >know better. Please forgive this added response to Dick's letter of yesterday trying to discredit me: As to his comments on my Socorro book, Allen Hynek, for example, had very high praise for it, and assured me that I was right and that Dick was wrong. He pointed out to me that the claimed 'mistake' (See my book.) accepted by Hall simply was not possible, and that the X-ray diffraction pattern of a zinc-iron alloy absolutely could not have a refraction pattern resembling that of quartz (silica dioxide). (See book for details.) Hall has never answered Hynek's objections. The truth is, Hall cannot do so effectively (and I suspect he knows that), simply because the facts are on our side. Allen also said to me that in the book, I had given him, "...what I had coming to me", for his 'pussyfooting' (as I described it in the book) in the media conference in Socorro, a few days after the event. An honest man, indeed. So, whom shall one believe in this matter, J. Allen Hynek, who sided with me, or Richard Hall? Since I do not have the time to tell this List the full story of the cover-up of metallic evidence from the Socorro object's landing gear, which demonstrates that Dick is not leveling with us for whatever reason(s), and since my Socorro book tells the whole truth and nothing but the truth on that, I make the following offer: Free Book! (Not applicable to booksellers.) So long as the supply lasts, or until September 15, 2003 (whichever comes first), if anyone already on this List as of August 28, 2003, who does not have my Socorro book, wants a copy, and has a snail mail address within the continental United States, and will send me $3.00 (U.S. funds) to cover $1.84 Media Mail postage, $0.75 for the padded book mailer, and $0.41 to cover my gasoline to and from the post office (to say nothing of my time and trouble), I will sign for you, personally, and mail to you one brand new, First Edition copy of my 1976 hard-cover, 211 page book entitled SOCORRO SAUCER IN A PENTAGON PANTRY. The $3.00 cost of mailing the book can be snail-mailed to: RAY STANFORD P O BOX 845 COLLEGE PARK MD 20741-0845 Be sure to include your snail mail address so I can get the book to you. What is my motive in making this offer? I simply want those of you who have not done so to read the book and realize that I am an intelligent, very caring, careful, and thorough UFO researcher and case investigator, and absolutely not the intellectually dishonest, shadowy, frothing-at-the-mouth, wide- eyed psychic fool Hall would clearly like to make of me. The book is my gift to you, if you want it. But if you get it, please don't just place it on a shelf. Read it and decide for yourself what Hall is giving you... :) Ray Stanford "You know my method. It is founded upon the observance of trifles." -- Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 30 Re: Trauma Can Bring About UFO Experiences? - Velez From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 13:02:22 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 16:06:58 -0400 Subject: Re: Trauma Can Bring About UFO Experiences? - Velez >From: Sheryl Gottschall <gottscha@bigpond.net.au> >To: ufoupdates@sympatico.ca >Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 16:53:10 +1000 >Subject: Re: Trauma Can Bring About UFO Experiences? >>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net> >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 10:20:33 -0400 >>Subject: Re: Trauma Can Bring About UFO Experiences? <snip> Hi Sheryl, You wrote: >Sorry, forgot to include Ken Ring's credentials. He is a >professor of psychology at the University of Connecticut, or was >at the time of writing his very intriguing book, The Omega >Project in 1992. His usual field has been the study of near- >death experiences (or was, not sure what he's up to now) No need to apologize. The guy just managed to sneak in under my radar somehow. Never heard of him. NDE background eh? It's interesting, your post to me proposes some connection between abductees and people that have had NDEs. (Near Death Experiences.) >I wasn't suggesting that all people who have abduction >experiences have them because they have been traumatised but I >am suggesting that trauma might be one of many triggers that >opens them to paranormal experiences. There's a difference. I understand what you're suggesting but... there is no evidence that any kind of cause and effect relationship exists between 'trauma' and the incidence or experience of the 'paranormal'. You may as well blame the common cold for that matter. >Dr Ring found similarities between persons reporting alien >abductions and those who have had a near-death experience. I'm sorry Sheryl, I haven't read his book. I can't say how much of a leap he is making in his assumption that there is a connection between the two, without knowing what his belief is based on. >Many >aspects of their childhoods and lives before their encounters, >as well as the changes they report afterward, show parallels. Abductees are going to share incidents of all kinds of 'human' experience. A drop of water shares much in common with the lake it came out of. 'Abductees' are after all, members of the 'general population.' >He suggests there is an "encounter-prone personality" type and >in his own words - a distinctive, spiritually sensitive and >visionary psyche that may, collectively, represent the next >stage in human evolution. I thought the Omega Project to be a >must read book for researchers. What makes it a 'must read', Sheryl? To tell you the truth, I always question the validity of these concocted and often times blanket labels such as "encounter- prone personality." Since the 90's the number of 'blank' - anxiety this, or 'blank' -syndrome that labels has increased dramatically. I'm not sure how 'valid' many of them really are. I'm always a bit leery of 'new' ones. Psychologists have attempted to pigeon-hole and categorize just about every single aspect of human thought and behavior. Rarely accurately or successfully. Sometimes I think a lot of that is done for grant $ and to entertain themselves/each other. >Just an aside, my own observation of abductees shows they are >usually highly creative, innovative people who tend to be >artistically inclined. They often write - poetry typically, >paint, sculpt, carve or weld, play a musical instrument, sing, >invent, design, the list goes on..... It appears there is a huge >amount of creativity unleashed within them and working through >them. "Your own observations of abductees"??? Like Ken Ring, are you an abduction 'researcher' that I've never heard of? Uh oh! I'm slipping. >To give a few examples from abductees I have spoken to, one >woman is drawn to sketching dragons and mythical animals (she >reports seeing dead people too); another (a man) makes Japanese >swords as well as designs furniture, paints, draws and sculpts; >another is a musician who also paints and writes poetry (he had >a missing time experience while in the Navy); another draws >Egyptian sketches on papyrus, plays guitar and the organ (he >also reports seeing dead people). Sheryl, that there is more 'creativity' being displayed by the abductee population as opposed to the general population is nothing more than urban legend. Unless somebody were to conduct a major poll to determine how common 'creativity' is among the general populace and then compare it to how often it is displayed among those who report UFO abduction, it's all 'conjecture.' con-jec-ture (k=F5n-jek-ch=F5r) n. 1. Inference or judgment based on inconclusive or incomplete evidence; guesswork. 2. A statement, an opinion, or a conclusion based on guesswork. Also, I'm an abductee. I don't see dead people. I don't know any abductees that do. And I know a few. Not to say that it doesn't happen mind you, just that it's a first for me and I've been knocking about for many moons. This is the _first_time_ I have heard of 'seeing the dead' mentioned as an 'ability' reported by any abductee. I also got to work closely and for many years with Budd Hopkins. I never encountered reports of abductees "seeing the dead" among Budd's cases either. I've moderated an e-mail list of sorts (for abductees) also for many years, "seeing the dead" never came up there that I can recall. Curious. Maybe Will Beuche, formerly of John Mack's PEER organization can share with us if he has ever heard accounts of abductees reportedly 'seeing dead people.' I'd like to know. You've piqued my curiosity. >These are just a few of a list of people who have contacted me >recently reporting abduction experiences. As you can see they >clearly demonstrate this artistic inclination. The reason they >tell me about this is because I ask what they do in their spare >time. (just in case the suggestion of leading comes up) People are contacting you to report their abduction experiences? Why? Again, are you an 'abduction research person' that has somehow slipped in under my radar? Two in one week! I must be losing my pepper!!! Regardless, it appears that you've chosen to conduct a little 'abduction research' on your own time. You also seem to have made some pretty astounding connections already. I don't know you. All I will say is this: Be _real_careful_ not to screw up somebody else's head while you do your "research". Bad ju-ju. Instant karma. ;) Regards, John Velez
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 30 Re: Ray Stanford - Hall From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 17:39:50 +0000 Fwd Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 16:23:59 -0400 Subject: Re: Ray Stanford - Hall >From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker@earthlink.net> >To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 03:28:19 -0400 >Subject: Re: Ray Stanford >>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> >>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net >>Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 21:36:18 +0000 >>Subject: Ray Stanford >>Some of you may be wondering why I am deeply skeptical of Ray >>Stanford and claims of superior knowledge made by him. Try a >>simple Google search on "Ray Stanford" and get an instant >>education. The stuff about his allegedly supporting an >>"Accelerator" and time travel, etc., was new to me and I don't >>know how accurate it is (he certainly has the option to >>enlighten us) but it fits with his track record. >>Looking a little closer at the results of a Google search on >>"Ray Stanford," I find that he (allegedly) has "channelled" the >>truth about Fatima. How can we mere mortals deal with someone >>who is so obviously far ahead of us that not only does he (by >>his own claim only) acquire "hard" scientific data that eludes >>the rest of us, but also he leaps Uri Geller with a single bound >>and resolves other mysteries via "channelling." Jeez. I can't do >>that. Guess I'm just jealous. >>Ray has a long track record, part of which he has openly >>acknowledged, of self-delusion. In my opinion, his false and >>inaccurate portrayal in his Socorro book of what transpired at >>NASA in regard to his sample analysis is simply more of the >>same. He portrays me as a dupe (if not a participant) in a >>cover-up. What utter bull! >>I have seen his notebooks of "propulsion physics" and find them >>completely meaningless without full scientific analysis and peer >>review. Instead, we get statements to the effect of how >>backwards and shallow our research is compared to his [his >>totally unsupported, unverified, non-peer-reveiwed claims]. ><snip> >>Get real folks. >>- Dick >Well, what a surprise! :) Please pardon my responding to such an >attack, List friends. I'll make it short. >Here you are, Dick, trying to sell people on the idea that I'm >some kind of incompetent or untrustworthy "psychic" (Woo! >Dangerous thing to be psychic! Oh wow! How shameful!) based on >disinformation and deliberate misinformation that you, yourself, >even admit you don't know to be accurate, saying, "I don't know >how accurate it is (he certainly has the option to enlighten us) >but it fits with his track record." >Dick, I have more important UFO-related things to be doing than >"enlightening" you on every foolish accusation anyone else makes >on the internet! Get real! >You're way out in left field on the things you bring up, but I >confess being somewhat psychic, and suppose it has never >occurred to you that a psychic might also be an intelligent >human who could do some pretty good UFO science, too, especially >when well equipped with the right optical and electronic >instruments and personnel. >Heck, Dick, a team being led by someone a bit psychic just might >aid a scientific UFO tracking crew be at the right time and >place to 'get the goods' that would ultimately 'knock the boots >off' a rather jaded UFO establishment. :) Didn't you pay any >attention to the insightful and very, IMO, valid comments John >Velez made, yesterday, about a seeming psi component in UFO >events and experiencers? >Well, Dick, I am not surprised at another of your 'out-of-the- >blue' attacks on me (I've gotten kind of used to and amused by >them), nor of your willingness to in desperation bring up >uninvestigated things you see on the internet in an attempt to >smear me for your own ends; but this time you have stooped to >something that I thought would have been beneath you. You have >told an outright falsehood! >Fellow List members, here is the absolute 100% falsehood Dick >has told you: "I have seen his notebooks of 'propulsion >physics'.... >I read that to my wife and she - who was present with us any >time Dick Hall was ever over here to visit - laughed and said, >"I wonder if Dick's getting a bit senile. He couldn't possibly >have seen any notebooks (not even a single one) on propulsion >physics here, because you've never had any!" >Of course, had Dick actually seen any such notebooks, they would >naturally have been (to use his words), "unverified, non-peer- >reviewed", simply because personal notebooks are hardly the kind >of thing one submits to scientific journals for peer review in >the context of consideration for publication! But only the >delusional see things that are not really there, and there were >no such notebooks - and there still are not. >I never thought I might have to call Dick Hall an outright liar, >but I swear my life that Dick's claim of seeing notebooks of >propulsion physics by me has not even a smidgen of truth in it >and is either total delusion or a total lie. >Sorry, Dick, but when anyone tells falsehoods about me, I call >it exactly what it is. Next time, have the courage to try and >attack the quality of my UFO research with facts pertinent to >the issue, not fantasy. I should think a good philosopher might >know better. >Ray Stanford I'll try to keep this mercifully short. Keep your eye on the ball, folks, when the spin doctor speaks. Please "attack" me, Ray, by suggesting people do an internet search on my name as a means of gaining a better understanding of the person. Makes eminent sense to me, whether the "claimant" be me, Stanford, Steven Greer, or anyone else. You can learn a lot about a person by studying their works (publications, public activities, and public utterances). Do you deny being a contactee and making various other claims over the years about "channelling," etc., then later disowning them? That's self-delusion. That's "self-confession" (which I acknowledged). What are you denying about the internet postings on you: the "accelerator" story, your "channelling" information about Fatima? Do you deny showing me notebooks of your photos in plastic sleeves, taken from your movie films, pointing out various lines resembling magnetic lines of force, interpreting the photos to me in terms of ionaztion and other "propulsion physics" for which assertion you call me a liar? - Dick
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 30 Re: UFOIN? - Parr From: Chris Parr <cparr@talk21.com> Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 00:22:38 +0100 Fwd Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 07:34:04 -0400 Subject: Re: UFOIN? - Parr So.... Nick Pope, considers the entire Ufological community of the UK to be identified as UFO buffs or compared to a school project? UK ufology is fed up with the trenchcoat wearing/role playing Mr Pope, and UK Ufology recognises that his previous post on the MOD UFO desk was as significant as a post on a MOD umbrella stand. Regards, Chris Parr Enthusiastic UFO buff and school project co-ordinator
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 30 Re: Mysteries And Anomalies On The Moon? - Lehmberg From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com> Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 06:56:45 -0500 Fwd Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 17:25:19 -0400 Subject: Re: Mysteries And Anomalies On The Moon? - Lehmberg >From: Pedro Luz Cunha <pplcunha@yahoo.com> >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 00:22:21 -0300 (ART) >Subject: Re: Mysteries And Anomalies On The Moon? >Hello Listers, >I just would like to thank you all that responded to >my question about mysteries and anomalies on the Moon. >I already have material enough to study and write my >article. Thank you! Hi Mr. Cunha. Had you seen this? http://www.alienview.net/tele9.html Lehmberg@snowhill.com www.alienview.net Photo Album: http://www.alienview.net/AVAlbum.htm (send picture as attachment to Lehmberg@snowhill.com) Splash page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AlienViewGroup/ AlienViewGroup Splash Page: http://www.alienview.net/alienviews.htm Radio Show Archives: Having... ah... *Technical* difficulties...
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 30 Gremlins From: Keith Chester <projectbluebook@erols.com> Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 08:21:07 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 17:28:41 -0400 Subject: Gremlins Hello List, Gremlins - 1. An imaginary gnomelike creature to whom mechanical problems in aircraft are often attributed. 2. A mischief-maker. (origin unknown) --The American Heritage Dictionary. A couple of months ago I was in Frederick, Maryland at the Delaplane Art Center. My wife and I were visiting and decided to see what the artists had been working on. There is a small gallery and it was open to the public. We browsed through the gift shop and my attention was quickly sparked by the cover of a book sitting beside the cash register. On the cover, if I remember correctly, was a color drawing of a P-51 aircraft in flight with a little elf riding on the wing. It was surprising to see this book in a place like this, especially since I'm very interested in the Foo-Fighters of World War II. Most of my spare time is used looking for accounts of this mystery. I picked up a copy and leafed through its pages. It was a children's book with several colored drawings throughout. It is called, "Widgie, The Fighter Pilot's Gremlin", by Clare Kenner Hill. Mrs. Hill is a local resident of Fredeick and It was a story about a little gremlin that was causing mischief with her husband, Mr. William G.Hill, who was a fighter pilot in the China-Burma-India (CBI) theater of operations during World War II. Now, Widgie wasn't only hanging around the aircraft, he,she,or it was following Mr.Hill around. Back at the barracks Widgie would rummage through Mr. Hill's personal belongings. In fact, it reminded me of the movie "Star Wars" when Luke went to the Dagabah system to train and discovered his master Yoda. There is that one scene that shows Yoda digging around in the supplies of Luke's aircraft, tossing things out over his shoulder if they didn't interest him. Widgie was almost like a pet. Recently while conducting my research I found a report of these mischievous little devils, but they were described a little differently in detail. It was from a Royal Air Force Coastal Command Intelligence Summary, dated week ending December 3rd, 1941. "These creatures have been noticed several times by the Photographic Reconnaissance Unit (PRU) aircraft in the environs of Gibraltar." A. " The Gremlin found in the neighborhood of the Rock are generally speaking of the hairy-footed variety,with extremely large rudimentary ears fastened to the head (in the case of the male) by a peculiar scaffolding of gristle about eight feet long." Eight feet long. I'm having trouble with this description. Now that's some serious ears. " The abdomen is pierced with triangular holes through which the wind whistles when in flight. Both males and females are neuter when young. The colours noted in the Gremlin section of your report are not in the experience of Intelligence, Gibraltar, factual; it appears from close interrogation of pilots that this is an illusion due to the fact that the outer edges or suburbs of the monsters consist of an agglomeration of chameleon-tissue which takes on color of the sky and thus makes the Gremlin appear to extend in all direction, or else be practically invisible save for the flowing black hair on the calves and feet." Now this little critter has a hormone problem or we're dealing with the Neanderthal of the Gremlin evolutionary chain. B. "It is reported from a reliable source that a female Gremlin of the kind found in this area has been captured by a Spanish Air Force Officer, Teniente Cornel Mariposa Blasco Tortilla y Paraguas of the 23rd Stratospheric Exploration Squadron (under formation), of the Spanish Air Force. He is understood to keep it in a cave near the Queen of Spain's chair.He has on several occasions endeavored to have it crated and sent to Madrid to hand it over to the German Scientific Mission for investigation in order to convert it into primary food products for re- exportation to the Reich, but this has been thwarted by the fact that on alternate days the monster either extends almost indefinitely in practically every direction, or else can only be located by singing 'La Cucaracha' in the apparently empty cave,when it will join in the chorus. The difficulty of making a crate with the present shortage of wood, is therefore obvious." This Gremlin is very crafty. It nseems vey plausible that the Spanish Air Force contacted Hitler's intelligence branch of the SS, who I'm sure would have allocated funds and material for the capture of this creature. If it were captured. who knows, there may have been a possibility of training these things for intelligence operations in the field. They remind me of the movie Predator in which the alien could become invisible or blend into his surroundings. C. "Squadron Intelligence officer, No. 202 Squadron, was sent to interview the monster, believed to be in captivity. He has returned: but much more peculiar than before. Secret Service representatives of Gibraltar have also been informed. One of the members have been sent disguised,it is hoped, adequately,as a Gremlin (Male), riding a red Postman's bicycle, so that his progress can be watched through the powerful telescope sited at the top of the Rock. He has not yet reported to base." I think there may have been a problem with the Postman ploy. It probably was not a good idea using this kind of undercover technique since the Gremlin's of the area were probably very in tune with their surroundings and being masters of disguise were also very intuitive, had keep eyesight, and were able to monitor any suspicious activity. "Investigations have not been confined to observation only. The following notes have been prepared regarding Gremlin neutralisation, which are now included in all P.R.U. briefings on the Rock." a. "Mental Preparation. This is very important. A man must not be seeing before becoming airborne. He should never be allowed to enter his aircraft in a Gremlined condition. It generally passes off in about 24 hours, and the next day he will probably not see any Gremlins at all and his results will be perfect." b. "Physical Aids. The following two Gremlin Neutralisers are recommended:" (i ) "This is the result of local experiment only: doubtless in the U.K., with its larger sources in material, better application of these rudimentary devices will be devised. The Hall hairy chest inducer or pulmonary wig. This simple little device consists of portions of the stuffing of old horsehair chairs mounted on a frame of light wickerwork. Hardly noticed under the average flying suit, this has turned out to be one of the most powerful Gremlin neutralisers yet discovered. The gamma rays generated by friction in the internal organs of the monsters collide with the dense wisker-screen in the bows of the flying suit, and cause the whole organism to liquefy and be blown away in the slipstream." Well, well, now I know where and how Q may have thought up with some of his ideas for Mr.Bond. Or maybe Q was the originator of the anti-Gremlin device. Obviously, much scientific effort was designated to this project because the Royal Air Force could not afford loosing aircraft. They had enough to contend with regarding Goering's Luftwaffe. It's one thing to be shot down by a ME-109, but not crash an aircraft by an unwanted passenger in flight. ( ii ) Another more rudimentary device which is proving successful is the rubbing of the behind of the rear gunner of Maryland aircraft with valerian. It is not known yet why this proves to be an effective Gremlin neutraliser, but it is assumed, that particularly in the case of the male Gremlin, that it is some way allergic to this vegetable growth." It's great to learn that the allied pilots were starting to use a holistic approach with countering the Gremlin menace. High doses of vitamin C is very beneficial to the immune system, so I wonder if it was being experimented with at this stage of the game. We know that blueberry was given to pilots to aid with the health of their eyes, thus affording better clarity. I have definitely found, or at least come to a fairly accurate assessment, the answer to the mysterious Foo-Fighters of World War II. Obviously , the Gremlins were incorporated into a high tech German project and the 415th Night Fighter Squadron was the first United States unit to encounter this new weapon. By 1944 the German's most likely had several domesticated Gremlins in captivity and were able to train them. The Gremlin's sophistication, apparently of high intelligence, was utilized and ultimately attached to the German night fighter units. The mystical and paranormal ability of these creatures enabled them to fly unconventional craft that initiated a psychological warfare program against our pilots. The Gremlins were probably few in number, so it was not in the best interest of the Luftwaffe to conduct suicide missions. This answers the question of why the Foo-Fighters were not hostile. It appears that Widgie, Mr.Hills Gremlin, was either another variant of the Gremlin project or belonged to a clan engaged with their own endeavors. Widgie was not of the hairy type and his physique was quite different than the long eared type found in the Gibraltar area. I think Widgie may have been of the historical lineage that Santa Claus has employed. This leaves me in a position to alter my course of research and delve into the secret projects of the Third Reich. No wonder I haven't found any good documentation about the Foo-Fighters at the Archives. I have been looking up the wrong tree. I need to uncover the secret files relating to captured creatures, those with extraordinary abilities and apparent high intellect, that have been right under our noses. Do you think the unicorn's were captured and exploited by the Office of Strategic Service (OSS) to use as listening devices in the French countryside during the German occupation. They may have had a communicative skill that enabled them to relay information to OSS field agents concerning German troop deployment. They probably had the ability to see the Gremlin's, if any were used, as German field operatives, and work amongst them. Talk about undercover work. So, I'm off to the Archives with a new agenda and I have many questions for the archivists of the OSS records. I'll keep you posted with my progress. Oh yeah, by the way, I bet there is more to the carrier pigeon story the we realize. Keith Chester
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 30 Re: UFOIN? - Pope From: Nick Pope <nick@popemod.freeserve.co.uk> Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 13:28:11 +0100 Fwd Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 17:30:02 -0400 Subject: Re: UFOIN? - Pope >From: Chris Parr <cparr@talk21.com> >To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net> >Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 00:22:38 +0100 >Subject: Re: UFOIN? >So.... Nick Pope, considers the entire Ufological community of >the UK to be identified as UFO buffs or compared to a school >project? UK ufology is fed up with the trenchcoat wearing/role >playing Mr Pope, and UK Ufology recognises that his previous >post on the MOD UFO desk was as significant as a post on a MOD >umbrella stand. Not at all, Chris. If you re-read my post you'll see I wasn't setting out my view on British ufologists. I was explaining how the sort of letters Jenny Randles wrote to the MOD would play with the Department. Look, for example, at what she wrote about the Bentwaters case. She set out her own theory involving: " ...an indigenous intelligence to planet earth which in fact is way beyond us in terms of most capacities and therefore represent the real rulers of our world." How do you suppose, Chris, that a Department of State will view such a letter? Is the MOD likely, as Roy Hale suggested, to engage in secret talks with Jenny? Or will they send her a standard reply letter? If you re-check the link to the MOD website that I provided, you can see the answer to that question for yourself. Jenny's 'real rulers of our world' letter is on pages 18 and 19. The MOD's response is on page 16: http://www.mod.uk/linked_files/publications/foi/ufo/ufofilepart5.pdf If I seriously believed that UK ufologists were all 'buffs' I would hardly be in this particular field of study myself, long after I handed over official responsibility for the subject. As I say, Chris, if you re-read my original post you'll see that I wasn't talking about my personal view. Best wishes, Nick Pope
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 30 Former Chilen Air Force Commander Discusses UFOs From: Scott Corrales <lornis1@earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 08:32:51 -0400 Fwd Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 17:33:20 -0400 Subject: Former Chilen Air Force Commander Discusses UFOs SOURCE: Revista TOC (www.revista-toc.cl.nu) DATE: 08.31.03 FORMER AIR FORCE COMMANDER DISCUSSES UFOs [Interview conducted by Alejandro Guillier; transcription by Rodrigo Cuadra Salazar] Alejandro Guillier (journalist): UFOs, well...nothing better than to ask a war pilot about the experiences he's had if he's seen anything, but it turns out that I've heard talk about there being a military pilot in Antofagasta who toward the late Seventies -- '78 -- had been flying and ran into a very strange thing. It also turns out that the pilot became a general, retired general Hernan Gabrielli, and we're going to talk to him about this rather interesting experience. How do you do, general? Good morning. Hernan Gabrielli Rojas (general-Ret.): Hello, Alejandro. Good morning to you. Alejandro Guillier: This occurred in '78, according to one version, but what is the story about your running into a UFO while flying a warplane? Hernan Gabrielli: We were two F-5s, dual training craft, and we were returning to base after completing our mission, Cerro Moreno, noon. From Mejillones to Antofagasta, at an altitude of some 35,000 feet - 40,000 feet. I suddenly detected a radar fault and saw a line that ran side to side on the scope, and my student, Danilo Catal=E1n, also detected the same, and curiously enough it was the ground radar, which has a large screen, that also indicated a radar fault. At that time we looked toward [the part of the sky indicated on the radar screen] and we saw that UFO. Alejandro Guillier: What was it exactly? What was it you managed to see? Can it be described? Hernan Gabrielli: It was visualized as a smoke-covered, half- deformed banana, very large, in other words, very large in plain sight. We were between 15 or 20 miles away. It was tremendously large and surrounded by a fumarole which moved in our very same direction and at the same speed as our aircraft. Alejandro Guiller: ...and you felt tempted to check it out. Hernan Gabrielli: We approached it carefully and...but those were good instructions. We were heading back from Attack 1, which is a combat tactic involving gun cameras, no cannon, missiles or anything else. So we approached it with caution. Unfortunately the UFO did not go away toward a single minute, so we arrived in an instant. Alejandro Guillier: But I understand that you had to ascend. Hernan Gabrielli: No... Alejandro Guillier: In order to approach, what was your position? Going upward.. Hernan Gabrielli: No...we shared the same altitude, between 30,000 and 35,000 feet. Alejandro Gabrielli: But F-5s are swift airplanes. When you got near it scurried way so... Hernan Gabrielli: Of course. It's a fighter that covers 10 nautical miles a minute, in other words, 20 kilometers a minute. That is the normal speed for that aircraft. Alejandro Guillier: And this object you saw, how soon did it vanish? At what speed? Hernan Gabrielli: Unimaginable, in other words, thousands of nautical miles a minute, because it vanished toward the west suddenly and the screen cleared up. In other words, all three radar screens--the ground radar, mine and Danilo's -- were operating normally; it wasn't just a visual experience but a physical one as well, a material one, that materialized on the screen. Now, if you ask me what it is, where it comes from, don't ask me. I haven't the slightest idea. Alejandro Guillier: Now...is this time of sighting customary among Chilean military pilots? Hernan Gabrielli: No, they are not. Alejandro Guillier: And has any other functionary remarked that he had been flying and seen strange things? Hernan Gabrielli: Look, at that time there was also another sighting by a functionary near Calama, but no...that was the age of the Vampire aircraft. Alejandro Guillier: What's that? Hernan Gabrielli: Vampires were wooden aircraft, and the fighter climbed to a certain number of feet and could see from below that this UFO didn't...didn't move. However, as the pilot climbed, he said that the object or UFO's size was such that... Alejandro Guillier:...that it didn't move and he could never reach it. Hernan Gabrielli: He never reached it. They later sent out a pair of fighters, then an F-5 and nothing, really... Alejandro Guillier: And they couldn't continue climbing. Hernan Gabrielli: No, they couldn't continue their ascent. Alejandro Guiller: It reached its maximum altitude and then... Hernan Gabrielli: Fifty something thousand feet, and it had to turn back. Alejandro Gabrielli: And by the descriptions you recall, general, was there any similarity with the sighting you had in Antofagasta? Hernan Gabrielli: No, because this one had another shape, it had a shape...in other words, as though looking from below upward, the pilots flying at the time said it was triangular. Alejandro Guillier: Triangular...it couldn't have been an American plane, one of those spy planes. Hernan Gabrielli: I don't think so. This was 1978. The latest thing around at the time was the SR-71, which is a U.S. spy plane, but it flies at Mach 3, so there is displacement. This thing did not move. Alejandro Guillier: Right, this thing was suspended in the air. Well, and after that you landed and must've had a shot of whisky, I imagine. Hernan Gabrielli: No, no. There were remarks, in other words, each combat or training flight is its own story, so this was just another anecdote. Alejandro Guillier: Now, why does the FACH [Chilean Air Force] handle all of this with such secrecy, because it has in fact appeared before Congress, before parliamentarians, and everyone was deathly silent...there were no such things. All they do is create more concern, because one says: "Well, there must be something awful that the FACH, the senators and the deputies don't want to discuss," and in this case they were all quiet. Hernan Gabrielli: Look, it's not that there's an unwillingness to talk, but since it is an almost intangible piece of information it cannot be handled, it cannot be processed. To tell you the truth, the base commander is informed and then the page is turned and normal activity resumes. Alejandro Guillier: Right. Well, last week in Calama, a LAN airliner was flying over the weekend with the players of the Wanderers team for the big match against Cobrelola and the pilot was forced to make a spectacular turn, diving to avoid a collision. Supposedly there was no airplane there. This would also be equivalent to a UFO. Hernan Gabrielli: Surely. In other words, if the pilots were forced into taking an evasive maneuver, with passengers aboard, it must have been something... =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Translation (C) 2003 Scott Corrales Institute of Hispanic Ufology Special thanks to Rodrigo Cuadra Salazar
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 30 Re: More About The Botswana Crash - Stedman From: Gary Stedman <Gary.Stedman@btopenworld.com> Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 15:03:26 +0100 Fwd Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 17:35:59 -0400 Subject: Re: More About The Botswana Crash - Stedman >From: Thierry Jonnaert <thierry.jonnaert@pandora.be> >To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 04:49:57 +0200 >Subject: More About The Botswana Crash Dear Listmembers, I remember reading about this story a few years ago when it appeared in Tony Dodds book. While I have no idea as to the credibilty of the UFO aspects of it I had a good laugh at the quoted involvement of SAAF aircraft and the 'thor 2' laser weapon. Heres why; >Mirages have a very limited fuel supply. Bad argument. It was >not such a big distance for a Mirage F II G or a Mirage they >used in 1989! There is no such Mirage variant as a 'F II G', not in SAAF service or ever having been produced by Dassault. I'm suprised this has not been picked up on before, as although it is presumably just a typo errors like this are usually a good sign of how credible the story is. For the record in 1989 the most capable interceptor in SAAF service was the Mirage F1CZ, flown by No.3 Sqn (SAAF). Alongside the attack-optimized F1AZs these were the most modern combat aircraft available to the SAAF, although becoming quite dated, even in 1989. Various models of the earlier generation of Mirage III were also in SAAF service (Mirage IIICZ/DZ/EZ being the main models). Some of these old airframes had already been upgraded to the first of the 'Cheetah' models by the time of the alleged incident. As for the 'Thor 2' laser weapon; It seems strange that not a whimper about this new piece of kit has appeared in the aviation press, or that any new stores have been photographed being carried by SAAF aircraft. The SAAF does have a history of maintaining very strict secrecy on its operations. This has not, however, stopped very detailed information on the Atlas Cheetah C (now the primary SAAF interceptor) being made available to the aviation community. Perhaps unsuprisingly, the 'Thor 2' has yet to put in a appearance... The aviation aspect of this story appears to be a rather silly fabrication. Gary Stedman Air-Scene UK Suffolk UK
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 31 Re: Ray Stanford - Hall From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com> Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 15:59:45 +0000 Fwd Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 23:16:21 -0400 Subject: Re: Ray Stanford - Hall >From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker@earthlink.net> >To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca> >Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 12:35:29 -0400 >Subject: Re: Ray Stanford <snip> >>>>>In my opinion, his false and >>>>>inaccurate portrayal in his Socorro book of what transpired at >>>>>NASA in regard to his sample analysis is simply more of the >>>>>same. He portrays me as a dupe (if not a participant) in a >>>>>cover-up. What utter bull! >>><snip> >>>Please forgive this added response to Dick's letter of >>>yesterday trying to discredit me: >>>As to his comments on my Socorro book, Allen Hynek, for example, >>>had very high praise for it, and assured me that I was right and >>>that Dick was wrong. He pointed out to me that the claimed >>>'mistake' (See my book.) accepted by Hall simply was not >>>possible, and that the X-ray diffraction pattern of a zinc-iron >>>alloy absolutely could not have a refraction pattern resembling >>>that of quartz (silica dioxide). (See book for details.) Hall >>>has never answered Hynek's objections. The truth is, Hall cannot >>>do so effectively (and I suspect he knows that), simply because >>>the facts are on our side. >Then Dick Hall brashly declares: >>The simple truth is that Hynek never said this to any of his >>colleagues or to me, so we have Stanford (once again) as self- >>witness to his claimed truth. And Stanford cannot provide any >>documentation for his allegation. >Got ya, Dick! In your rabid, frantic tizzy to try and defend >your indefensible position on the Socorro metal analysis, with >that last statement you've just hanged yourself! >List, what follows is the text, in full, of a July 6, 1976, >letter I received from J. Allen Hynek. Electronic copy available >on request. Ray, Yes, please send me the "electronic copy." Better yet, why not let me (us) see a copy of the original, if by "electronic copy" you mean "transcript"? >Ray Stanford >Project Starlight International >P. O. Box 5310 >Austin, Texas 78763 >Dear Ray: > >First off let me say once again how very much Mimi and I enjoyed >our visit with you and I will include also best wishes, >greetings, and thanks from Dave Baldwin and Carl Teutsch. We >were all very impressed with your set-up, your staff, and with >the morale that was quite evident. We all wish you very great >success. >I promised to send you a short statement about your book with >permission to use it in the furtherance of its welfare. >[In narrower spacing, Hynek them provided the following >statement for promoting the book:] >The Socorro UFO case is one of the classics in UFO history. In >SOCORRO SAUCER IN A PENTAGON PANTRY, Ray Stanford not only tells >the story well but has brought to it a great deal of painstaking >and intensive research, presenting a far more comprehensive and >coherent treatment of this important case. The Socorro case has >always been a thorn in the side of UFO detractors who have tried >to dismiss it either as deliberate attempt by the town fathers >of Socorro to promote the tourist trade -- or as atmospheric >phenomena. Ray Stanford has shown these attempts to be patently >untenable. Stanford has transformed the case from a one-witness >matter to a multi-witness case and thus has accomplished what >the Air Force failed to do. In the preparation of his book, Ray >Stanford has exhibited a rare persistence in tracking down vital >details of this remarkable and pivotal UFO sighting. His >enthusiastic dedication and pre-occupation with this case has >been monumental. >[Then in wider spacing, Hynek concluded his letter to me with:] >I hope that this meets with your approval. >Sincerely, >J. Allen Hynek >JAH:emh >***[End of Hynek letter.] >So, List colleagues, there you have Hynek's praise of the book. >I ask you to compare Allen Hynek's high praise of the Socorro >book to the negative, self-serving comments of Dick Hall. And I ask you to find anything in this transcript wherein Hynek supports Stanford's claims about the "metal" analysis at NASA and agrees with him that Dick Hall is a liar. >Hynek says I told the story well, and the very core of the story >is the cover-up at Goddard, resulting in the book's title. Hynek >had no vested interest in promoting the book for anything other >than its merits, while Hall clearly displays an emotion that >suggests he fears people accepting what the book accurately >reports. Why else these out-of-the-blue unprovoked attacks on me >and the book, again and again?! Your inferences. You do "tell the story of Socorro well," even I have said that, in reference to the basic facts of the case. You also introduce several red herrings. >Dick said I portrayed him as a dupe for a cover-up. Well, his >part is either that or that of a co-conspirator! So, I just took >the kinder, gentler approach. :) I will have nothing further to say about your continued insults and distortions except to identify them for what they are: figments of your imagination. >Of course Allen does not mention the metallic analysis >controversy in his short statement intended for use in promoting >the book in advertisements because that is not the place for >pro-con discussions of technical matters, but even the title of >the book, SOCORRO SAUCER IN A PENTAGON PANTRY, refers >figuratively to the cover-up that Dick Hall supported with every >bit of self-defending temper that his well-equipped adrenal >glands could muster. Now, here...Gotcha! What has Hynek said publicly about Socorro? In his two books presenting the scientific case for UFOs (surely a very appropriate forum for results of metal analysis), he only briefkly summarizes the case. In "The UFO Experience: A Scientific Inquiry" (1972) the case is not even given an index entry! It appears on pp. 144-45. In "The Hynek UFO Report" (1977) it appears on pp. 223-29. Funny, he never even mentions anything about trace evidence of any kind. In fact, I have long been bothered and said so publicly that the Air Force has never released anything but a single qualititative analysis of soil samples, nothing quantitative and nothing about the obvious effects on soil and vegetation at Socorro. Is Hynek a liar? Engaged in a cover-up? >It is important to note that from the very beginning, and in my >book, and in many disputes Dick has provoked about this in the >years since the books publication in 1976, I have advised Dick >to ask independent (of Dr. Henry Frankel's crew at Goddard) >analytical chemists or metallurgists whether the x-ray >diffraction pattern of quartz (which was the cover-up claim) can >be mistaken for the X-ray diffraction pattern of a zinc-iron >alloy. >If Hall has ever done so, he has never revealed to me or to the >public the result of such a query. Why the silence on that? If >he hasn't done so, it suggests he is saying, "To hell with >analytical science!", he has a made-up mind. If he has make such >inquiries as I made and reported in my book (naming the chemist >involved and his institution), Hall has never told us the >result, likely because it confirms the position Dr. P.E. Smith >(See below.), Allen Hynek, and I have taken on this. >Why the silence on this from Dick Hall? What nonsense! I reported the analysis made by NASA and have seen nothing concrete (other than Stanford's fantasies) to contradict it. All his cliams in this regard are entirely undocumented and based on things he "heard" from someone or other. >So, Dick, you don't accept the 1964 evaluation of Dr. P.E. >Smith, head of the Department of Chemistry, Del Mar College, >Corpus Christi, Texas, as reported in my book, or even the words >of J. Allen Hynek (who you seem to admire in other matters). >Allow me to quote the words in my book, verbatim (page 149): Your book is not indexed. Where is the report from Dr. Smith? >*** beginning of text, taken directly and verbatim from my book: >...He [Hynek, following his address to the Founders Day >Reception of the Northwestern University Alumnus Association in >Phoenix, to which Allen had kindly invited me.] asked me, "What >ever happened with the analysis at Goddard of that metallic >sample from the rock you took from the Socorro site?" >I was not sure where Hynek had learned of the fact that I had >taken the rock which Lonnie Zamora had pointed out to both of >us, and which the astronomer had ignored. I was interested to >note that he specifically knew it was analyzed at Goddard. That >fact had never been published. I told Hynek the whole story, >closing with, "I received a call from Thomas P. Sciacca, Jr. He >told me that all that Dr. Frankel had told me about the strange >zinc-iron allow was a mistake! The sample, he said, was merely >silica!" >Hynek broke in, "He told you THAT?" >"Yes", I replied, "precisely that!" >Hynek was very emphatic in his next words, "That cannot be true! >I am familiar with the analysis techniques involved. Silica >could not be mistaken for a zinc-iron alloy. They haven't given >you the truth! I would accept Frankel's original report and >forget the later disclaimer." >***[End of quote from my book.] >Now tell me, Dick, do you really think Allen would have given my >book the praise he did with that statement in it, if I had not >been quoting him accurately? That's a good point... except that everything you say in the book about this is all hearsay to this point. I would like to see a photocopy of the full letter you received from Hynek, not merely a transcript. >Come on! Fess up! You have made yourself the equivalent of a >crystal-ball reading-fool by saying, "And Stanford cannot >provide any documentation for his allegation." You can't and haven't provided any documentation for your statement that there was a NASA cover-up such as yopu describe. <snip> I am deleting the rest of this as it is very tiresome and repetitious. Do some research into Stanford's track record, folks. - Dick
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 31 Chilean Congressmen Left Speechless By UFO From: Scott Corrales <lornis1@earthlink.net> Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 12:20:42 -0400 Fwd Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 23:21:59 -0400 Subject: Chilean Congressmen Left Speechless By UFO SOURCE: Cronica DATE: 29 August 2003-08-31 CONGRESSMEN LEFT SPEECHLESS WITH UFO TALES **In the defense committee** **Committeeman Jorge Ulloa related part of the eyewitness accounts received and assured listeners that the phenomenon jeopardizes the safety of any flight** by Isabel Plaza V. "I haven't taken this as a joke and this is what makes me give it the level of seriousness it merits," said the congressman for Talcahuano, Jorge Ulloa, who forms part of the Lower Chamber Defense Committee and who on Tuesday, along with other delegates, listened to part of the testimony gathered regarding anomalous aerial phenomena. The session created great interest, because it was the first time that an official ageny took time to listen to reports of this kind, experienced by Chileans. The parliamentarian recounted that the session began with the presentation by a representative from Ovnivision, an independent agency devoted to the subject. However, he acknowledged that the matter acquired a different tone when retired general Hern=E1n Henr=EDquez, director of the FACH (Chilean Air Force) Aeronautical School and former air traffic controller Gustavo Rodr=EDguez of the CEFAA (Centro de Estudios de Fenomenos Aereos Anormales) entered the stage. This is a team formed only by experts and specialists in the subject, having no budget whatsoevere and in which all work for love of the subject since 1997. "The general made it clear from the start that he didn't believe in space aliens, but that he did believe in phenomena having an explanation, others which are somewhat explainable and others which are outright inexplicable. After that he left us with a former air traffic controller who not only said that he believed, but brought with him a recording made in 1988," explained the parliamentarian. =46rom that moment onward, one could hear a pin drop and the passing of time was disregarded. The tape contained the dialogue between a commercial airliner pilot and the control tower of the Tepual Airport at Puerto Montt. In the recording, the pilot advises the tower that "air traffic is approaching on a collision course", to which he is told that while the radars are not picking up any air traffic, the controller himself can see- from the control tower-- a light approaching the plane. While the conversation increases in intensity and nervousness, the pilot repeats that he must get out of the collision course, and finally makes a detour which even keeps him from making a landing. What is interisting is that the light not only made a sudden course change, but passed alongside the aircraft and was seen by all passengers. "What concerns me is that Chile lacks an office earnestly devoted to the subject and that isn't good for a nation that ranks among the five with the greatest number of sightings," explained Ulloa. He added that there would be information suggesting that several air tragedies had been caused by similar situations, which implies a risk factor for aviation in this country. Therefore, he added, a second session will he held and scientific explanations will be sought to cover the creation of an agency designed to safeguarding flights. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Translation (c) 2003 Scott Corrales Institute of Hispanic Ufology (IHU) Special thanks to Gloria Coluchi. From: Scott Corrales <lornis1@earthlink.net> To: Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 12:20:42 -0400 Subject: Chile: Congressmen Left Speechless By UFO Testimony SOURCE: Cronica DATE: 29 August 2003-08-31 CONGRESSMEN LEFT SPEECHLESS WITH UFO TALES **In the defense committee** **Committeeman Jorge Ulloa related part of the eyewitness accounts received and assured listeners that the phenomenon jeopardizes the safety of any flight** by Isabel Plaza V. "I haven't taken this as a joke and this is what makes me give it the level of seriousness it merits," said the congressman for Talcahuano, Jorge Ulloa, who forms part of the Lower Chamber Defense Committee and who on Tuesday, along with other delegates, listened to part of the testimony gathered regarding anomalous aerial phenomena. The session created great interest, because it was the first time that an official ageny took time to listen to reports of this kind, experienced by Chileans. The parliamentarian recounted that the session began with the presentation by a representative from Ovnivision, an independent agency devoted to the subject. However, he acknowledged that the matter acquired a different tone when retired general Hern=E1n Henr=EDquez, director of the FACH (Chilean Air Force) Aeronautical School and former air traffic controller Gustavo Rodr=EDguez of the CEFAA (Centro de Estudios de Fenomenos Aereos Anormales) entered the stage. This is a team formed only by experts and specialists in the subject, having no budget whatsoevere and in which all work for love of the subject since 1997. "The general made it clear from the start that he didn't believe in space aliens, but that he did believe in phenomena having an explanation, others which are somewhat explainable and others which are outright inexplicable. After that he left us with a former air traffic controller who not only said that he believed, but brought with him a recording made in 1988," explained the parliamentarian. =46rom that moment onward, one could hear a pin drop and the passing of time was disregarded. The tape contained the dialogue between a commercial airliner pilot and the control tower of the Tepual Airport at Puerto Montt. In the recording, the pilot advises the tower that "air traffic is approaching on a collision course", to which he is told that while the radars are not picking up any air traffic, the controller himself can see- from the control tower-- a light approaching the plane. While the conversation increases in intensity and nervousness, the pilot repeats that he must get out of the collision course, and finally makes a detour which even keeps him from making a landing. What is interisting is that the light not only made a sudden course change, but passed alongside the aircraft and was seen by all passengers. "What concerns me is that Chile lacks an office earnestly devoted to the subject and that isn't good for a nation that ranks among the five with the greatest number of sightings," explained Ulloa. He added that there would be information suggesting that several air tragedies had been caused by similar situations, which implies a risk factor for aviation in this country. Therefore, he added, a second session will he held and scientific explanations will be sought to cover the creation of an agency designed to safeguarding flights. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Translation (c) 2003 Scott Corrales Institute of Hispanic Ufology (IHU) Special thanks to Gloria Coluchi.
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 31 UFOs Beam of Light Puzzle 150 Witnesses In BC From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO <hbccufo@telus.net> Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 11:11:35 -0700 Fwd Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 23:27:09 -0400 Subject: UFOs Beam of Light Puzzle 150 Witnesses In BC UFOs, Beam of Light, Puzzled And Frightened Residents by Brian Vike HBCC UFO Research hbccufo@telus.net One Hundred and Fifty Seven Witnesses Speak Out - We Want To Know! What can cause so many residents in various communities from Kamloops through to the Okanagan and the Kootenays in British Columbia left scratching their heads, wondering what it was they all witnessed. Also many people became very frightened and ran into their homes. The answers to the questions I have been asked have been hard to come by, but we certainly know something extraordinary did take place on July 28, 2003 in the early morning hours. The story begins with a family who was camping at St. Marys Lake, which is located approximately 12 miles east of Kimberley, British Columbia, Canada. Around 12:45 a.m. the husband and wife decided to do some star gazing as the children were asleep and the night was warm and the sky clear and full of stars. As the couple stood looking into the night sky they observed a very bright, white light heading in a southeasterly direction. The moon sized light was witnessed flying low over top Bootleg Mountain and across the lake and at times it's speed did vary. As it slowed, then picking up speed once again the witnesses watched the light zig zag slightly and at times it seemed to wobble until it was out of sight. When they arrived back home from their camping trip they contacted the Kimberley RCMP detachment and spoke to a Cpl. Rod Carbonneau to enquire if others had reported seeing the object. Cpl. Rod Carbonneau said the detachment received no calls over this matter. The Cranbrook Airport was also contacted and asked if there were any aircraft in the area of the sighting .... but none were reported in the vicinity the object was observed. For the couple who watched this amazing sight on July 28, 2003 not many answers were fourth coming. A couple of area residents did telephone the folks who watched the event telling them what they also saw that night, and another did make a report to the local newspaper. From A Few Witnesses To a Flood Of Calls: A report was made to Peter Davenport at the NUFORC in Seattle, Washington and then the sighting report was forwarded on to me here at HBCC UFO Research (Houston, British Columbia) for a follow-up investigation. What I did not realize at this time was just how large this one case was going to be. From a handful of witnesses the case exploded into a major event where I currently have 157 eye witnesses to something very mysterious. Two things happened in the early morning hours that Sunday, a large moon sized object was seen by many area residents, and what followed left many folks in communities such as Kamloops, Vernon, Kelowna, Kimberley, Cranbrook and as far as Jaffray, British Columbia scratching their heads wondering what it was they saw. A beam, or ray of white light was observed from Kamloops as far southeast as Jaffray, British Columbia. People who watched the strange and puzzling event said the white light looked as bright as a florescent tube and was arced from horizon to horizon as if one was viewing a rainbow. The beam of light sat almost stationary in this position for approximately an hour before dissipating. Almost everyone who witnessed the beam of white light said they had never seen anything like this before. All said they have watched the northern lights many times, but they commented this was certainly not the northern lights. A Few Of The Eye Witness Accounts - The Light/Object (July 28, 2003) A gentleman from Cranbrook, B.C. telephoned me and reported that he and his family were sitting outside and were discussing how bad the forest fires are throughout the southern interior when one of the family members spotted what they thought was a airplane with it's landing lights on and heading in their direction. As the bright white light drew closer to them, the size was growing rapidly and so was the brightness of the light. Before they knew it, the light/object was upon them. The family was so frightened due to the immense size of the light/object being almost at the edge of their property that the children ran into the house screaming. The mother followed closely behind. The father followed his wife and kids into the home, but stopped to take one last glance at whatever it was, and watched it make a 90 degree turn to the south. When I spoke to the dad he told me that they heard not a sound coming from it. Another report came from a lady who was with a group of people on their holiday at their cabin on one of the local Kimberley, B.C. lakes. She told me they were sitting outside on the deck when one of the guests pointed towards the northwest. Low over one of the mountains came a huge, extremely bright white light traveling slowly in a zig zag pattern heading to the southeast. As it got closer to the resort area, many people became uncomfortable due to how strange the object/light was acting. As it passed straight overhead not a sound was heard. Some of the folks who were there said it was like looking at a full moon on a clear night. It was that big. Two men in a pick-up truck traveling north along the highway just south of Wycliffe spotted the large bright object flying south. As they watched the large light/object close in on their location they pulled the truck over to the side of the highway, and jumped out of the vehicle to get a better look. Due to it being so low, so bright, and passing directly over top of them the light from the object lit up the highway and surrounding area. Both men stood frozen in their tracks and speechless. Both fellows said it moved quickly in a straight line and made no unusual maneuvers. Again no sound was heard which is remarkable due to how close it was to these men, and all the other witnesses. The above is a small example of what folks saw that night. There are many more reports here of area residents reporting seeing the same thing. A Few Of The Eye Witness Accounts - Beam Of Light (July 28, 2003) One lady said what she saw was very strange, it didn't behave like the northern lights as she noted that the lights danced across the sky, or looked like a curtain of shimmering light. She wondered if the long dry hot weather may have something to do with what she was seeing. But her thoughts changed quickly as she watched the beam of light come from the northwest horizon and impaled itself on one of the local hills and that is where it ended, according to this witness. A party of four witnesses were out for a few days on one of the areas lakes just outside of Kimberley, B.C. Everyone was having a good time talking and having a few spirits. One of the men who was sitting on a camping chair had just poured himself a drink, when he looked up and said to the rest of the people he was with, "do you see what I am seeing"? Everyone replied, "yes"! The man who asked the question was so surprised at what he was looking at, he poured his drink onto the ground and thought he'd had one to many that evening! They all watched a beam of narrow bright white light run in an arc from horizon to horizon. First they wondered if it might have been a search light as it was so brigh but they soon ruled this out due to the miles and miles the light covered. Again all these witnesses said this event lasted for approximately one hour before it dissipated. Some three weeks after people saw the beam of light on July 28, 2003, I had calls from Kelowna and Kimberley British Columbia reporting that the beam of light was back in the night sky. Two Kelowna residents stood on the patio with phone in hand reporting what it was they were seeing. The exact white beam of light sat stationary running from horizon to horizon and was extremely bright. Four Kimberley residents stood outside watching the beam of light, they reported standing under a street lamp and even with brightness from the street light they could clearly see the beam of light sitting in the dark sky. Conclusions: There is no doubt that something very unusual took place on Sunday, July 28, 2003 in the wee hours that morning. What folks saw in all these communities seems to be a mystery. But I have tried to come up with some reasonable answers for all the questions everyone had for me. Here is what I know: 157 witnesses watched an amazing event unfold on July 28, 2003 (early morning). Some observed the object and others observed the beam of light. (Exact numbers are broken down for how many saw the object or beam of light below. What I didn't say is how many saw both). 31 witnesses observed a huge, bright white low flying light/object. 126 witnesses observed the reported beam of bright white light. The International Space Station passed over Kimberley, B.C., at 00:24 hrs. on July 27, 2003. A Fire Ball was observed flying in a southeasterly direction over the West Coast of Canada and the U.S. Most of the witnesses reported the light/object and beam of light running from the northwest to the southeast There would have been a lot of air traffic in some of these areas due to the fire fighting efforts to control the devastating forest fires which raged through some of these areas in the summer of 2003. Our hearts go out to the people who were effected. So, the questions that need an be answered are.... What was the strange, large, glowing bright object? Did the object cause the beam of light which sat stationary in the night sky for approximately an hour as the object traveled through the areas? As for the object, this is certainly a mystery. After a lot of time speaking with witnesses, looking at data on astronomical events, checking on the flight paths, seeing if there were aircraft in these areas flying at the time of the sighting...... I have come up against a brick wall. I have not found any rational explanation for what people saw that night. Fireballs for example as far as I know do not make 90 degree turns to another direction. Also seeing that the object was so low, traveling rather slow in many of the reports and not making a sound. This again is certainly strange. Something else I found rather interesting, was the fact that reported sightings had dropped from my area here in the pacific northwest of British Columbia and reports of unusual crafts of every kind were now being seen and reported by many people residing in the areas from Kamloops, the Okanagan straight through into the Kootenays. Almost every different shape, color and size have been reported to HBCC UFO Research. Did the over 800 forest fires attract visitors from above? I am sure we will never really know the answer to that question..... ? The beam of white light ended up still being as baffling as the object. When reports started coming in I was sure what everyone was seeing was nothing more than the northern lights. But as the list of witnesses grew, and hearing their comments, I started wondering if there was a connection to these unknowns and the beam of white light. Out of the 126+ witnesses who observed the ray of light running across the night sky from horizon to horizon, only one report was filed saying they believed it to be nothing more than the northern lights. (which I report on below). Everyone else said they have never witnessed anything like in their lives. All said they have watched the northern lights on many occasions, and in their words "this was not the northern lights". A radio station host put a question on air to the people in the area, asking "has anyone seen strange lights in the night sky?" I was told reports flooded in over this beam of light, and how everyone was left not knowing what it was they saw. To be fair to all sides, I placed below an email I received from a person who did have some knowledge in astronomy, weather phenomena and the northern lights. One thing I would like to point out, is that what the gentleman viewed was not on the day of this major event. The email came from a gentleman who, on the evening of July 26, 2003 and morning of July 27, 2003, stated that a sailing regatta was held by the Kelowna Yacht Club. Although the event discussed in the report above took place in the early morning hours of July 28, 2003, I thought the report below was important due to how close all of the events were to one another. Plus I want to give both sides on this case. Mr. Brian Vike Director HBCC UFO Research Dear Mr. Vike, Re: July 27, 2003 On the evening of July 26, 2003 and morning of July 27, a sailing regatta was held by the Kelowna Yacht Club. It was an overnight race north up Okanagan Lake centered on 50 degrees N. Latitude and 121.5 degrees west. The race commenced near the yacht club and the course was to be north up Okanagan Lake to Whisky Island and then returning to the Kelowna Yacht Club. The race was attended by perhaps 100 members of the KYC both as participants and safety patrol boats. I was one of the participants in this race in the 25 ft sailboat (name deleted by HBCC UFO Research) along with 2 other crew. The race continued for the entire night of the 26th and almost all of the boats were back into the Kelowna Yacht Club by 10 am of the morning of the 27 of July. The sky conditions for the night was perfectly clear and very calm without interference from the light of the moon or city lights. After dusk a typical number of earth-orbiting satellites were observed. Around 11:30 pm the first appearances of typical shifty northern lights were visible to the north and north-west and continued to be visible on and off until early morning light. At the peak of the night's darkness, a stable and continuous band of light was present overhead from horizon to horizon in the East/West direction. I estimate the apparent width of the band of light to be about 10 degrees at the azimuth. No indication of colour was observed in this band, nor did I observe any detail or shadowing effects. This band of light was, however, unusual in it's stability of form and linearity of line. After this long and slow sailing event, some of the participants commented to me on the display of northern lights. Nothing that I observed that evening could be attributed to paranormal activity. The display of light was interesting but certainly not out of the ordinary compared to many other displays that I have observed in my interest of amateur astronomy. On a side note, one of my duties was a weather observer/recorder in the Canadian arctic while on station on the Distant Early Warning Line in 1967 and 1968 and was privileged to observe many spectacular light shows at that time. I am convinced that we observed nothing more or less than the Aurora Borealis and a few earth-bound satellites that night and I hope that my observations might shed some light on the matter. Kind regards, (Senders name and boat name deleted by HBCC UFO Research). What folks saw in the early morning hours on July 28, 2003 has left myself and a lot of other people in the UFO field without any solid answers to all of the questions. The one thing I know is that there was an event which took place that left so many residents and myself baffled. It would be nice to be able to supply answers for these mysteries, but all I am left with at this point is another unexplained case! Also keep in mind that three days later two woman had a missing time experience in Kelowna, British Columbia and the green lights seen on this night were witnessed by others at different locations which backed up their incredible story. Their story can be read at: http://www3.telus.net/public/wilbur8/kelowna_missing_time.htm And please .. if you have any similar story to report.... regarding any missing time experience you may have encountered... I'd love to hear from you. Relevant contact numbers and information can be found at the end of this page. I would like to thank everyone who took the time to write or pick up the telephone to make a call reporting what it was they saw. All of this data is very helpful. I also would like to express my many thanks to the newspapers who ran an article on this event. The information provided readers with the relevant phone number, email address, fax number etc.. and toll free number so that more of you hopefully will also make a report on anything strange you may have witnessed happening in the skies above. At the end of the day, there are more questions and answers. As time allows, I will be posting all of the reports I received over this case to my website. Take good care. Brian Vike, Director HBCC UFO Research Canadian Toll Free UFO Hotline 1 866 262 1989 - Free call. Phone/Fax 1 250 845 2189 Editor: Canadian Communicator - Paranormal Magazine email: hbccufo@telus.net Website: http://www3.telus.net/public/wilbur8/hbcc_ufo_research.htm
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 31 CI: Mars Face An Artificial Reflective Substrate? From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com> Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 18:47:14 -0700 (PDT) Fwd Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 23:33:53 -0400 Subject: CI: Mars Face An Artificial Reflective Substrate? Cydonian Imperative 8-31-03 The Face on Mars: An Artificial Reflective Substrate? by Mac Tonnies For images and links: http://www.mactonnies.com/cydonia.html (page 41) Richard Hoagland's latest feature essay, The Light Finally Dawns at Cydonia, presents an intriguing new view of the Cydonia region courtesy of a multiple-bandwidth false-color rendering. The image, which depicts the Martian surface moments before sunrise, shows the Face and D&M Pyramid apparently "glowing" in the faint morning light, as if polished to a mirror-shine. Hoagland insists that this effect is unique the the Face and D&M, writing: "[J]ust what could make 'an average Martian mesa' [...] so incredibly reflective ... even in the semi-dark, pre- dawn twilight of Cydonia?" [image] False-color composite showing "anomalous" reflectivity on the Face. What Hoagland fails to realize is that the "incredible" reflectivity referred to above is accountable by the portion of the Face exposed to the breaking dawn light; other features in Cydonia reveal equally "incredible" lighting effects, as shown by Chris Joseph (below). [image] The bulk of Hoagland's argument relies upon the existence of what he describes as a reflective cellular matrix. It comes as little surprise that this elusive material takes the form of concealed glass paneling, explaining why it isn't directly visible. Since the image in question is an amalgam of infrared and visible light data, it's impossible to tell if the apparant matrix lies buried beneath the surface of the Face (and, apparently, beneath every other mesa in the area) or clings invisibly to the surface. It's possible that a heat-reflecting material concealed by the Face's western half could radiate in such a way as to produce the glare described by Hoagland. But Hoagland is quite explicit that the anomalous glow should have been (at least momentarily) visible when the Mars Odyssey recorded the dawn image. [image] The Face on Mars. Note the relatively smooth surface on the feature's eastern side. Elswhere in the article, Hoagland revisits his "Feline Hypothesis," which possibly explains the difference in texture and morphology between the Face's two halves. Hoagland's scenario requires that the eastern side's controversial feline likeness is an intentional aspect of the Face' design. If he is wrong, as argued by Mark Carlotto, then the feline likeness is simply due to accumulated sand and mass wasting near the proposed eastern "eye." This debate is not likely to be solved soon. Conceivably, ground-penetrating radar aboard a future Mars probe could validate the blanket of dust required by Carlotto's model. (Shape-from-shading analysis already suggests that the eastern half is significantly taller than the western half; whether this is due to a build-up of sand or to artificial structural casing, as argued by Hoagland, is a lingering and portentous question.) Hoagland's article goes on to reiterate his certainity that the Face, if artificial, is certainly not a mere sculpted mesa, but a high-tech, incredibly durable formation supported by an internal substrate -- the same material that allegedly produces the "anomalous" morning glow. Circumstantial evidence indicates that Hoagland may be at least partially correct. For example, a rectilinear depression on the Face's "chin" looks very much like a cavernous feature formed from an internal collapse, and unusual striations on the exposed surface look tantalizingly like the flattened remains of some form of Cydonian "rebar." Hoagland has argued that the multiple signs of inward collapse on the Face's "feline" half may be the due to millennia of rusting: a provocative hypothesis, given Mars' oxidizing surface chemistry). Additionally, Lan Fleming has studied an adjacent dark crescent, which he proposes may be a deep chasm into the Face's (presumably hollow) interior. [image] Possible collapse near Face'e "chin." Note striations. The Face may, indeed, possess a durable metallic substrate. But, as can be seen in Chris Joseph's image, the prospect of the Face's "strange" glow being due to anything other than west- facing sunlight (in both infrared and visible portions of the spectrum) is witheringly low. Addressing the issue of which portions of the spectrum generate the reflections seen in Hoagland's false-color graphic is made difficult, if not impossible, by how little we know about the construction of the supposedly implicating image -- although even a cursory examination of THEMIS and Mars Global Surveyor data suggests that the "glare" is due to visible light. Characteristically, Hoagland teases us with false-color extreme close-ups of the Face and D&M in hopes of showing us the "highly geometric" cellular arrays we're assured are there. Confronted with a screen-full of pixels, it's possible to "see" just about anything one desires. Try as I might, I don't see detail consistent with architecture (Martian or otherwise). Very simply, the Mars Global Surveyor and the Mars Odyssey spacecraft lack the exquisite resolution necessary to discern such features -- if they exist. Mapping the interior of the Face should be a priority for future telerobotic missions. -end-
UFO UpDates A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena 'Its All Here In Black & White' Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 > Aug > Aug 31 Terrace & Port Coquitlam, B.C. Sightings From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO <hbccufo@telus.net> Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 20:49:12 -0700 Fwd Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 23:38:13 -0400 Subject: Terrace & Port Coquitlam, B.C. Sightings Terrace, British Columbia Date: August 31, 2003 Time: approx: 7:00 p.m. Daylight Sighting About an hour ago I had a fellow telephone me from Terrace, British Columbia to make a report, he said they had heard me on the radio speaking about UFO sightings in the area. He and his fianc=E9e were on their way home, which is in the Thronhill area of Terrace when they spotted a strange object hovering high in the sky. The couple were driving along Crumb Road and looked up just over the trees and high up underneath the clouds they saw the object. He described it as being rather flat, dark gray in color and it sat stationary for approx: one minute before it disappeared. They both saw a number of lights on it, the fellow said he thought there were 5 lights, and his fianc=E9e thought there were 6. All the lights were white in color and the witness said they looked like the headlights on a vehicle. The witness believe the lights were running around the object but was hard to say for sure. His fianc=E9e thought at first it may have been a plane, but they soon ruled that out because it sat in the same position for such a long time. "It did not move". After I asked a number of questions, the witnesses said the object would have been shaped more like a disk in shape. It was rather long, but not a lot of height to it. I asked the witness if he might give me some kind of idea of the size of the craft. As we know this is not an easy thing to do. The man turned to his fianc=E9e and asked, both said they thought it may have been around one and a half thumbs wide. This was a guess at how long this object may have been. No sound was heard, mainly because the couple were in their vehicle and they may have not heard anything due to the altitude the craft was at. They also reported that the sun was not shinning off it, in other words no reflection off the object. The couple said after the object disappeared they drove to the airport just to have a look to see if any planes were around the area, he told me there was nothing in the air. Thank you to the witnesses for the report. -------------------- Port Coquitlam, British Columbia Date: August 30, 2003 Time: 11:30 p.m. At approximately 23:30 hours Saturday August 30, 2003. I saw in the eastern sky, looking from Port Coquitlam B.C., a very large green light streak across the sky.It traveled from north to south with a large tail. It moved very fast and appeared to start quite high and was traveling in a downward motion. If you have any info on this I would love to find out what the heck it was.... The green light I saw appeared to be quite high as it seemed to be behind some late evening light cloud cover. It moved very fast, perhaps about a two second sighting. It also had a very long tail. I didn't think it was a flare or fireworks because it originated so high in the sky and arced towards the ground. Unfortunately I was alone at the time and have no verification. The green ball itself was quite large. Perhaps it was a flare of some sort, but it did not look or act like any flare I have ever seen. Thanks again for your quick response Thank-you. HBCC UFO: This sounds like it was a meteor. Thank you to the witness for the report. Brian Vike, Director HBCC UFO Research Canadian Toll Free UFO Hotline 1 866 262 1989 - Free call. Phone/Fax 1 250 845 2189 Editor: Canadian Communicator - Paranormal Magazine email: hbccufo@telus.net Website: http://www3.telus.net/public/wilbur8/hbcc_ufo_research.htm