UFO UpDates
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   Sep

                          UFO UpDates Mailing List
                                  Sep 2003

  Sep 1:

   Re: More Bentwaters Information - Bruni - Georgina Bruni [18]
   UFO Sighting Excites Alien Hunters - Eustaquio Andrea Patounas [70]
   Re: Gremlins - Balaskas - Nick Balaskas [42]

  Sep 2:

   Pocket Books Partners With SCI FI Channel - Steven Kaeser [86]
   UFO Street - Eustaquio Andrea Patounas [95]
   UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 8 Number 33 - John Hayes [297]
   Re: Private Aircraft Damage Event - Stanford - Ray Stanford [8]
   Re: More Bentwaters Information - Boeche - Ray Boeche [9]
   Filer's Files #36 -- 2003 - Filer - George A. Filer [540]
   Re: More Bentwaters Information - Hall - Richard Hall [13]
   Re: More Bentwaters Information - Ledger - Don Ledger [37]
   Re: Private Aircraft Damage Event - Velez - John Velez [41]

  Sep 3:

   About The 'Chupacabra'... Interesting Story - Greg Boone [53]
   Lake Charles Louisiana UFO Sighting - Kenny Young [48]
   No Increased Sightings In Germany Due To Mars - Hannes La Rue -
   MUFON-CES [65]
   Re: Private Aircraft Damage Event - Stanford - Ray Stanford [6]
   Barrie, Ontario & Penticton, British Columbia - Brian Vike - HBCC UFO
   [70]
   Open Skies, Closed Minds - Mac Tonnies [27]
   Kevin Randle? - Erik Landahl [12]
   Re: Taping UFOs Over Hawaii - Hatch - Larry Hatch [29]
   Sakinaw Lake, Sunshine Coast BC - 08-07-03 - Brian Vike - HBCC UFO [52]
   The Hunt For Zero Point - Steven Kaeser [10]
   Re: Taping UFOs Over Hawaii - Groff - Terry Groff [28]
   Re: The Hunt For Zero Point - Friedman - Stan Friedman [6]
   Mystery After UFO Sightings Puzzle Experts - Eustaquio Andrea Patounas
   [86]
   Re: More Bentwaters Information - Bruni - Georgina Bruni [32]
   Re: More Bentwaters Information - Bruni - Georgina Bruni [11]
   Re: More Bentwaters Information - Bruni - Georgina Bruni [7]
   Re: The Hunt For Zero Point - Hall - Richard Hall [12]
   Re: Taping UFOs Over Hawaii - Balaskas - Nick Balaskas [38]
   Re: Open Skies, Closed Minds - Pope - Nick Pope [30]

  Sep 4:

   Re: Open Skies, Closed Minds - Tonnies - Mac Tonnies [12]
   Re: The Hunt For Zero Point - Christol - Michael Christol [7]
   Ohio Residents Report Strange Lights In Sky - Kenny Young [102]
   Re: More Bentwaters Information - Clarke - David Clarke [21]
   Re: More Bentwaters Information - Clarke - David Clarke [47]
   Chilean Dogs Sucked Dry - Scott Corrales [61]
   Re: The Hunt For Zero Point - Aldrich - Jan Aldrich [46]
   Argentine Athletes Claim Seeing Strange Biped - Scott Corrales [84]

  Sep 5:

   Re: Ray Stanford and Socorro - Hall - Richard Hall [12]
   Alfred's Odd Ode #380 - Alfred Lehmberg [156]
   Serpent Mound Circle Radiation and Magnetism - Ray Stanford [49]
   Secrecy News -- 09/05/03 - Steven Aftergood [163]
   Dr Leir's Paris Visit - Gildas Bourdais [11]
   UFO Over Burnley UK - Eustaquio Andrea Patounas [44]

  Sep 6:

   Did 1995 Circle Predict Something for September 6? - Loren Coleman [58]
   British Columbia Reports -09-05-03 - Brian Vike - HBCCUFO [32]
   Re: More Bentwaters Information - Bruni - Georgina Bruni [76]
   Re: More Bentwaters Information - Bruni - Georgina Bruni [25]
   New Lies From The Brazilian Hoaxer - A. J. Gevaerd - Revista UFO [80]
   Re: New Lies From The Brazilian Hoaxer - McGonagle - Joe McGonagle [7]
   Re: Did 1995 Circle Predict Something for - Ray Stanford [28]
   Re: New Lies From The Brazilian Hoaxer - Maccabee - Bruce Maccabee [2]
   Re: New Lies From The Brazilian Hoaxer - Hyvonen - Minna Hyvonen [50]
   Subanthropic Principle & The Undetectability - Eric Wenger [76]
   Re: The Hunt For Zero Point - Landahl - Erik Landahl [37]
   Re: Did 1995 Circle Predict Something for - Loren Coleman [26]
   Sept 4 California Incident + NORAD Quote - Kenny Young [55]

  Sep 7:

   Re: The Hunt For Zero Point - Kaeser - Steven Kaeser [32]
   CI: Michael Cremo and Human Devolution - Mac Tonnies [74]
   Forget Martians How Will We Handle A 'New' Truth? - Terry Groff [109]
   Re: Subanthropic Principle & The Undetectability - Bill Hamilton [24]
   Re: Kevin Randle? - Estes - Russ Estes [10]
   Re: Did 1995 Circle Predict Something for - Ray Stanford [22]
   Re: The Hunt For Zero Point - Stanford - Ray Stanford [10]
   Re: Subanthropic Principle & The Undetectability - Bruce Maccabee [12]
   John Ford Redux (SDI 6 September, 2003) - Alfred Lehmberg [236]

  Sep 8:

   Re: The Hunt For Zero Point - Aldrich - Jan Aldrich [84]
   Re: John Ford Redux (SDI 6 September, 2003) - - Joe McGonagle [6]
   Radiation? Burn - Brian Vike - HBCC UFO [17]
   Re: Subanthropic Principle & The Undetectability - Eric Wenger [26]
   Picnic Island in Honey Harbour, Ontario - Brian Vike - HBCC UFO [34]
   Re: The Hunt For Zero Point - Pope - Nick Pope [16]
   Re: More Bentwaters Information - Clarke - David Clarke [80]
   Rendlesham - Latest UFO Theory Dismissed - Eustaquio Andrea Patounas
   [56]
   Houston, BC - 09-08-03 - Brian Vike - HBCC UFO [53]
   Re: John Ford Redux (SDI 6 September, 2003) - - Alfred Lehmberg [14]
   Picnic Island in Honey Harbour, Ontario - Brian Vike - HBCC UFO [34]

  Sep 9:

   Re: Subanthropic Principle & The Undetectability - Steven Kaeser [17]
   FOIA Request To Garrison Commander Carlisle - Larry W. Bryant [45]
   Re: John Ford Redux (SDI 6 September, 2003) - - Michael Christol [61]
   Re: Radiation? Burn - Stanford - Ray Stanford [10]
   'Alien-Hunters' Gaining New Respect - Sean Jones [7]
   Re: Rendlesham - Latest UFO Theory Dismissed - - David Clarke [22]
   HBCC UFO: Missing Time Update & Photos - HBCC UFO [53]
   Re: Subanthropic Principle & The Undetectability - Gildas Bourdais [35]
   Re: Rendlesham - Latest UFO Theory Dismissed - - Don Ledger [3]
   Photo Info? - Vicente-Juan Ballester Olmos [9]
   Re: HBCC UFO: Missing Time Update & Photos - - Ray Stanford [44]
   Re: Rendlesham - Latest UFO Theory Dismissed - - David Clarke [10]
   Re: Rendlesham - Latest UFO Theory Dismissed - - Jim Deardorff [3]
   Re: Picnic Island in Honey Harbour, Ontario - - Ray Stanford [27]
   Re: More Bentwaters Information - Pope - Nick Pope [20]
   Re: John Ford Redux (SDI 6 September, 2003) - - Jim Speiser [4]
   UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 8 Number 34 - John Hayes [302]
   UFO Disclosure Gets 3 Pages In UK Newspaper - Dave Haith [225]
   Last Saturday Night On SDI - John Velez [63]
   Re: HBCC UFO: Missing Time Update & Photos - - Colin Stevenson [12]
   Re: Rendlesham - Latest UFO Theory Dismissed - - Don Ledger [3]
   HBCC UFO: Missing Time Update & Photos - HBCC UFO [53]

  Sep 10:

   Re: Rendlesham - Latest UFO Theory Dismissed - - Don Ledger [12]
   Re: Rendlesham - Latest UFO Theory Dismissed - - Robert Gates [3]
   Re: Last Saturday Night On SDI - Ledger - Don Ledger [109]
   Re: Rendlesham - Latest UFO Theory Dismissed - - Don Ledger [7]
   Re: More Bentwaters Information - Clarke - David Clarke [17]
   Re: John Ford Redux (SDI 6 September, 2003) - - Alfred Lehmberg [24]
   Canadian And World Wide Sightings Forum Ready - Brian Vike - HBCC UFO
   [23]
   Barriere, British Columbia 09-03-03 - Brian Vike HBCC UFO [43]
   Re: Did 1995 Circle Predict Something for - Loren Coleman [19]
   Re: Rendlesham - Latest UFO Theory Dismissed - - Martin Shough [5]
   Filer's Files #37 -- 2003 - George A. Filer [533]

  Sep 9:

   'Alien-Hunters' Gaining New Respect - Sean Jones [7]

  Sep 11:

   Re: Rendlesham - Latest UFO Theory Dismissed - - Jim Deardorff [8]
   The Vanishing Battalion at Gallipoli? - David Clarke [19]
   Re: Did 1995 Circle Predict Something for - Ray Stanford [51]
   Rendlesham - Latest UFO Theory Dismissed - Jim Deardorff [17]
   Re: Rendlesham - Latest UFO Theory Dismissed - - Don Ledger [10]
   Montebello Residents Saw Red Flashing Lights - Eustaquio Andrea
   Patounas [60]
   Secrecy News -- 09/10/03 - Steven Aftergood [105]
   The Belzer Connection - Frank Warren [43]
   Re: John Ford Redux (SDI 6 September, 2003) - - Jim Speiser [4]
   Re: Rendlesham - Latest UFO Theory Dismissed - - Gary Anthony [9]
   Re: More Bentwaters Information - Pope - Nick Pope [22]
   Project Bluebook Field Operatives? - Keith Chester [8]
   Re: HBCC UFO: Missing Time Update & Photos - Vike - Brian Vike [6]
   Re: Last Saturday Night On SDI - Velez - John Velez [56]
   Disclosure Dialogue 01-07 - A Plan - Victor Viggiani [447]
   Barriere, British Columbia Update - Brian Vike HBCC UFO [82]
   Flatwoods Monster UFO Event - Stanton Friedman [17]
   Re: The Belzer Connection - Velez - John Velez [44]

  Sep 12:

   FOIA Request U.S. Army Training & Doctrine Command - Larry W. Bryant
   [63]
   UFOs In The USA Theories And Fixations - Eustaquio Andrea Patounas [87]
   Re: More Bentwaters Information - Rudiak - David Rudiak [31]
   Re: Rendlesham Case Solved! - Rudiak - David Rudiak [59]
   Re: The Belzer Connection - Weber - Bill Weber [14]
   'Magnificent Obsessions' TV Series - Brian Vike - HBCC UFO [28]
   The Lou Gentile Network - Brian Vike - HBCC UFO [12]
   Re: Did 1995 Circle Predict Something for - Amy Hebert [19]
   An Announcement Ad For Publication In 'The - Larry W. Bryant [25]
   UMMO Case Researcher Detained For Murder - Loren Coleman [24]
   Goldstein Is Back - Josh Goldstein [105]
   Re: Serpent Mound Circle Radiation and Magnetism - - Paul Anderson [21]
   Re: Did 1995 Circle Predict Something for - Ray Stanford [6]
   Secrecy News -- 09/12/03 - Steven Aftergood [153]

  Sep 13:

   Crash Site Material Analysed - Ed Gehrman [43]
   Ray Stanford - Loren Coleman [49]
   Saskatchewan Report - 09-12-03 - Brian Vike - HBCC UFO [39]
   New Westminster UFO Footage - Brian Vike - HBCC UFO [17]
   Re: John Ford Redux (SDI 6 September, 2003) - - Alfred Lehmberg [17]
   [SO] Joe Travis Of Little A'Le'Inn Passes - Bill Hamilton [20]
   Reagan And The Aliens - Jerome Clark [36]
   Re: Goldstein Is Back - Maccabee - Bruce Maccabee [3]
   Re: Ray Stanford - Stanford - Ray Stanford [11]
   Ohio Sightings Continue Large UFO Near Adams City - Kenny Young [101]
   Re: Reagan And The Aliens - Speiser - Jim Speiser [8]
   Re: Reagan And The Aliens - Fleming - Lan Fleming [23]

  Sep 14:

   Re: [SO] Joe Travis Of Little A'Le'Inn Passes - - Larry Hatch [10]
   Re: John Ford Redux (SDI 6 September, 2003) - Hatch - Larry Hatch [7]
   Re: Reagan And The Aliens - Hatch - Larry Hatch [5]
   Re: [SO] Joe Travis Of Little A'Le'Inn Passes - - Michael Christol [9]
   Re: Reagan And The Aliens - Clark - Jerome Clark [15]
   Re: New Westminster UFO Footage - Balaskas - Nick Balaskas [26]
   PRG/X-PPAC Update - 09-13-03 - Bassett - Stephen Bassett [120]
   Review: Socorro 'Saucer' In A Pentagon Pantry - Mac Tonnies [23]
   Re: Reagan And The Aliens - McCoy - GT McCoy [3]
   Re: John Ford Redux (SDI 6 September, 2003) - - Jim Speiser [6]
   Re: John Ford Redux (SDI 6 September, 2003) - - Jim Speiser [6]

  Sep 15:

   Re: Last week (9/5) On SDI - Velez - John Velez [29]
   First Images Taken Of Chupacabras? - Scott Corrales [52]
   Link To Alleged Chupacabras Footage - Scott Corrales [11]
   New Witnesses In Whitehaven UK UFO Sighting - Chris Parr [25]
   Chupacabras Description Analyses Performed - Scott Corrales [98]
   Re: Reagan And The Aliens - Speiser - Jim Speiser [4]
   Re: Reagan And The Aliens - Speiser - Jim Speiser [7]
   Re: John Ford Redux (SDI 6 September, 2003) - - Alfred Lehmberg [19]
   Re: New Westminster UFO Footage - Vike - Brian Vike - HBCC UFO [18]
   Re: Last week (9/5) On SDI - Kaeser - Steven Kaeser [14]
   Re: Last week (9/5) On SDI - Lehmberg - Alfred Lehmberg [18]
   Re: Last week (9/5) On SDI - Ledger - Don Ledger [14]
   Re: Review: Socorro 'Saucer' In A Pentagon Pantry - Terry Groff [11]
   Acknowledging Ray Stanford - Chris Lambright [47]
   Re: Last week (9/5) On SDI - Velez - John Velez [37]
   Re: John Ford Redux (SDI 6 September, 2003) - - Jim Speiser [8]
   Re: Acknowledging Ray Stanford - Stanford - Ray Stanford [8]
   Re: Review: Socorro 'Saucer' In A Pentagon Pantry - Ray Stanford [7]
   Re: Last week (9/5) On SDI - Velez - John Velez [54]
   Re: Last week (9/5) On SDI - Velez - John Velez [20]
   Re: Reagan And The Aliens - Hall - Richard Hall [2]
   Re: Review: Socorro 'Saucer' In A Pentagon Pantry - Richard Hall [87]
   Re: John Ford Redux (SDI 6 September, 2003) - - Alfred Lehmberg [9]
   Re: Last week (9/5) On SDI - Lehmberg - Alfred Lehmberg [33]
   Re: Review: Socorro 'Saucer' In A Pentagon Pantry - James Oberg [16]
   Re: Last week (9/5) On SDI - Ledger - Don Ledger [20]

  Sep 16:

   Paradigm Research Group Release - 09-15-03 - Stephen Bassett [71]
   Re: John Ford Redux (SDI 6 September, 2003) - - Jim Speiser [4]
   Re: Review: Socorro 'Saucer' In A Pentagon Pantry - Richard Hall [18]
   Airdrie, Alberta - 09-15-03 - Brian Vike - HBCC UFO [57]
   Re: Review: Socorro 'Saucer' In A Pentagon Pantry - Don Ledger [7]
   CCCRN News: "Flying Tray" Photo Anomaly in - Paul Anderson [52]
   Re: Review: Socorro 'Saucer' In A Pentagon Pantry - John Velez [34]
   Re: Reagan And The Aliens - Fleming - Lan Fleming [38]
   Re: Review: Socorro 'Saucer' In A Pentagon Pantry - Mac Tonnies [10]
   Re: Reagan And The Aliens - Friedman - Stan Friedman [10]
   Re: Reagan And The Aliens - Fleming - Lan Fleming [46]
   Re: Link To Alleged Chupacabras Footage - - Virgilio Sanchez-Ocejo [9]
   Re: Last week (9/5) On SDI - Kaeser - Steve Kaeser [47]
   CI: Exclusive: Mars Global Surveyor Photographs - Mac Tonnies [65]
   Re: Review: Socorro 'Saucer' In A Pentagon Pantry - Ray Stanford [134]
   Webmasters Beware! - Larry Hatch [69]
   Re: Last Week On SDI - 9/5 - McCoy - GT McCoy [20]
   San Luis Valley Event Log On-line - Christopher O'Brien [46]
   UK UFO Magazine's Graham Birdsall Suffers Brain Hemorrhage - A. J.
   Gevaerd - Revista UFO [33]
   Re: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 8 Number 35 - Hayes - John Hayes [471]
   My FOIA Requeste Status Re The 'Carlisle Caper' - Larry W. Bryant [171]
   Re: John Ford Redux (SDI 6 September, 2003) - - Alfred Lehmberg [10]

  Sep 17:

   Secrecy News -- 09/15/03 - Steven Aftergood [100]
   Re: Review: Socorro 'Saucer' In A Pentagon Pantry - Ray Stanford [104]
   Re: Review: Socorro 'Saucer' In A Pentagon Pantry - Ray Stanford [5]
   Re: Review: Socorro 'Saucer' In A Pentagon Pantry - Ray Stanford [4]
   Re: Webmasters Beware! - Hayes - John Hayes [22]
   Re: UK UFO Magazine's Graham Birdsall Suffers - Stephen Bassett [14]
   Re: Review: Socorro 'Saucer' In A Pentagon Pantry - Richard Hall [7]
   Re: Review: Socorro 'Saucer' In A Pentagon Pantry - Richard Hall [29]
   Re: UK UFO Magazine's Graham Birdsall Suffers - Louise A. Lowry [8]
   New Westminster UFO Footage Update - Brian Vike - HBCC UFO [126]
   Re: Review: Socorro 'Saucer' In A Pentagon Pantry - Jerome Clark [17]

  Sep 18:

   Re: Review: Socorro 'Saucer' In A Pentagon Pantry - Alfred Lehmberg
   [14]
   Re: Review: Socorro 'Saucer' In A Pentagon Pantry - Don Ledger [16]
   Re: UK UFO Magazine's Graham Birdsall - Yturria - Santiago Yturria [11]
   Re: Webmasters Beware! - Hatch - Larry Hatch [10]
   Re: New Westminster UFO Footage Update - Stanford - Ray Stanford [128]
   Re: Photo Info? - Lemire - Todd Lemire [13]
   Re: New Westminster UFO Footage Update - Balaskas - Nick Balaskas [85]
   President Reagan's Beliefs About UFOs - Ken Kelly [21]
   Re: The Belzer Connection - Warren - Frank Warren [18]
   Re: The Belzer Connection - Warren - Frank Warren [12]
   Filer's Files #38 -- 2003 - George A. Filer [548]
   Re: Review: Socorro 'Saucer' In A Pentagon Pantry - Lan Fleming [13]
   Secrecy News -- 09/17/03 - Steven Aftergood [129]
   Re: UK UFO Magazine's Graham Birdsall - Velez - John Velez [12]
   Could Religions Survive Discovery Of Life - Eustaquio Andrea Patounas
   [444]
   Orb In The White Mountains Of New Hampshire - Paul Wedel [17]
   Repairs Improve Access To History - UFO UpDates - Toronto [96]
   False Creek BC - 09-17-03 - Brian Vike - HBCC UFO [37]
   UFO May Have Been Restaurant Lights - Kenny Young [59]
   Graham Birdsall Update - A. J. Gevaerd - Revista UFO [17]
   Re: UK UFO Magazine's Graham Birdsall - Gevaerd - A. J. Gevaerd -
   Revista UFO [11]
   Imagined UFO Close Encounter Study? - Stephen MILES Lewis [9]
   Roger Day And The Aliens - Eustaquio Andrea Patounas [98]
   Re: Review: Socorro 'Saucer' In A Pentagon Pantry - Ray Stanford [6]
   'Strange Days... Indeed' - Sept. 20 - Wendy Connors [10]
   Re: President Reagan's Beliefs About UFOs - Fleming - Lan Fleming [13]
   Re: Orb In The White Mountains Of New Hampshire - - Wendy Christensen
   [22]
   Re: Imagined UFO Close Encounter Study? - Stanford - Ray Stanford [10]
   UFO Story From The 19th Hole - Chris Parr [53]
   Re: 'Strange Days... Indeed' - Sept. 20 - Lehmberg - Alfred Lehmberg
   [8]
   Re: President Reagan's Beliefs About UFOs - Rudiak - David Rudiak [35]
   Re: Orb In The White Mountains Of New Hampshire - - Wendy Christensen
   [22]
   Re: Could Religions Survive Discovery Of Life - Ray Stanford [77]
   Re: Imagined UFO Close Encounter Study? - Pope - Nick Pope [16]

  Sep 19:

   Re: UK UFO Magazine's Graham Birdsall - LeFevre - Charlette LeFevre
   [12]
   Re: Could Religions Survive Discovery Of Life - Bill Hamilton [21]
   Re: Orb In The White Mountains Of New Hampshire - - Nick Balaskas [45]
   Document Extends Secrecy On Area 51 - Eustaquio Andrea Patounas [45]
   Graham Birdsall Passes - Steve Gerrard [7]
   Graham Birdsall R.I.P. - Andy Roberts [33]
   Re: Graham Birdsall Passes - Burns - Max Burns [5]
   Re: Re: Graham Birdsall Passes - Christol - Michael Christol [6]
   Graham Birdsall - A.J. Gevaerd - Revista UFO [15]
   Re: Could Religions Survive Discovery Of Life - Ray Stanford [18]
   Re: Orb In The White Mountains Of New Hampshire - - Bruce Maccabee [6]
   Re: Graham Birdsall Passes - McGonagle - Joe McGonagle [30]
   Leeds Conference - Philip Lipson [22]

  Sep 20:

   They Had a Close 'UFO' Encounter - Eustaquio Andrea Patounas [54]
   Re: Graham Birdsall - Rosales - Albert Rosales [3]
   UFO Magazine Editor Graham W. Birdsall, 1954-2003 - Loren Coleman [22]
   Re: Could Religions Survive Discovery Of Life - Jim Deardorff [6]
   UFO/ET & Earth Mysteries Congress 10-4/5-03 - Tom Benson [15]
   Graham Birdsall Tribute Skywatch - Chris Parr [13]
   Re: Imagined UFO Close Encounter Study? - - Stephen MILES Lewis [4]
   Re: Imagined UFO Close Encounter Study? - Lewis - Stephen MILES Lewis
   [12]

  Sep 21:

   Re: Could Religions Survive Discovery Of - Larry Hatch [26]
   Re: UFO/ET & Earth Mysteries Congress 10-4/5-03 - - Larry Hatch [4]
   Radio Shows On Some Important Events - Brian Vike - HBCC UFO [26]
   Re: Graham Birdsall - Bright - Dan Bright [18]
   Re: Graham Birdsall - Robert [12]
   Re: Graham Birdsall Passes - Harrison - Diane Harrison - AUFORN [27]
   New At Magonia - 09-21-03 - John Rimmer [6]
   Re: President Reagan's Beliefs About UFOs - Gates - Robert Gates [8]
   SDI #258 - A Night At The Fights! - Alfred Lehmberg [68]
   Re: Could Religions Survive Discovery Of Life - Nick Balaskas [47]
   Betty Hill's Illness - Nick Balaskas [37]
   Kamloops, British Columbia 09-18-03 - Brian Vike - HBCC UFO [46]

  Sep 22:

   Re: Graham Birdsall - Bourdais - Gildas Bourdais [8]
   Re: New At Magonia - 09-21-03 - Hatch - Larry Hatch [9]

  Sep 23:

   Re: Kamloops, British Columbia 09-18-03 - Balaskas - Nick Balaskas [38]

  Sep 22:

   Re: SDI #258 - A Night At The Fights! - Connors - Wendy Connors [8]
   Secrecy News -- 09/22/03 - Steven Aftergood [139]
   Bush Extends Exemption At Area 51 - Eustaquio Andrea Patounas [34]

  Sep 23:

   DNA Analysis of Alleged EB Material - Bill Chalker [32]
   Graham Birdsall - Chris Evers [13]
   Condoleances - Thierry Jonnaert [11]
   UFO Crashes In Africa - Thierry Jonnaert [21]
   Strange Lights & A Creature In Canada - Brian Vike - HBCC UFO [26]
   BUFOSC Meeting - 12-06-03 - Eric Morris [24]
   UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 8 Number 36 - John Hayes [644]
   Secrecy News -- 09/23/03 - Steven Aftergood [115]
   Graham Birdsall - Chris Rolfe UFOMEK/UFO-TREK [37]
   AUFORN's Graham Birdsall Tribute Page - Diane Harrison - AUFORN [29]
   Re: Kamloops, British Columbia 09-18-03 - Vike - Brian Vike - HBCC UFO
   [5]

  Sep 24:

   Kamloops, British Columbia 09-18-03 - Balaskas - Brian Vike - HBCC UFO
   [11]
   UFO Spotted Over New Mexico County - Eustaquio Andrea Patounas [25]
   Re: UFO Crashes In Africa - Boone - Greg Boone [12]
   The Passing Of Graham W. Birdsall - The Lost Haven [34]
   Re: Kamloops, British Columbia 09-18-03 - Balaskas - Nick Balaskas [41]
   Re: UFO Crashes In Africa - Balaskas - Nick Balaskas [24]
   Re: UFO Spotted Over New Mexico County - Young - Kenny Young [6]
   Crop Circle Found In Fleminsburg Kentucky - Kenny Young [67]
   Press Release - Paradigm Research Group - 09-24-03 - Stephen Bassett
   [33]
   Re: UFO Crashes In Africa - Hatch - Larry Hatch [26]
   Sorrow As UFO Expert Dies - Sheyllah Salles F. Pires [26]
   Re: Graham Birdsall - Gevaerd - A. J. Gevaerd - Revista UFO [10]
   World's First Alien Abductee Suffering Lung Cancer - Loren Coleman [22]
   'UFO' Sewage Not From Plane - Eustaquio Andrea Patounas [28]

  Sep 22:

   Re: SDI #258 - A Night At The Fights! - Connors - Wendy Connors [8]

  Sep 24:

   Shame On SCI-FI & Fenton Bailey - Katharina Wilson [66]
   Re: Graham Birdsall - Baiata - Maurizio Baiata [15]
   Re: 'UFO' Sewage Not From Plane - McCoy - GT McCoy [10]
   Re: UFO Crashes In Africa - Ledger - Don Ledger [47]
   Re: UFO Crashes in Africa - Cammack - Diana Cammack [26]
   "Monster" Object Said To Roam Ohio Skies - Kenny Young [102]
   Re: UFO Crashes In Africa - Jonnaert - Thierry Jonnaert [13]
   Re: World's First Alien Abductee Suffering Lung - Wendy Connors [7]
   Re: Kamloops, British Columbia 09-18-03 - Vike - Brian Vike - HBCC UFO
   [50]
   Re: World's First Alien Abductee Suffering Lung - Will Bueche [7]
   Re: World's First Alien Abductee Suffering Lung - Stan Friedman [12]
   Filer's Files #39 -- 2003 - George A. Filer [518]

  Sep 25:

   Re: UFO Crashes In Africa - Hatch - Larry Hatch [21]
   Re: World's First Alien Abductee Suffering Lung - Louise A. Lowry [16]
   Sightings Yet To Be Explained - Eustaquio Andrea Patounas [73]
   St. Laurent Manitoba Lights & Creature - Brian Vike HBCC UFO [91]
   Re: UFO Spotted Over New Mexico County - Maccabee - Bruce Maccabee [4]
   Re: Kamloops, British Columbia 09-18-03 - Balaskas - Nick Balaskas [78]
   US Air Force Bases 1953? - Keith Chester [6]
   Re: Strange Lights & A Creature In Canada - Belzil - Fern Belzil [10]
   4602 AISS Records? - Keith Chester [5]
   Is Your Name On This FBI List? - Greg Boone [6]
   Re: World's First Alien Abductee Suffering Lung - Wendy Connors [6]
   Tribute To Graham & Gordon - Roy Hale - The Lost Haven [20]
   Tribute To Graham & Gordon - Roy Hale - The Lost Haven [20]
   Re: Strange Lights & A Creature In Canada - Vike - Brian Vike [26]
   Secrecy News -- 09/25/03 - Steven Aftergood [89]
   I Had Sex With An Alien! - Eustaquio Andrea Patounas [58]
   Re: Is Your Name On This FBI List? - Groff - Terry Groff [7]
   Re: Tribute To Graham & Gordon - Lowry - Louise A. Lowry [9]
   Re: World's First Alien Abductee Suffering Lung - Louise A. Lowry [14]
   Re: World's First Alien Abductee - Andersen - Kathleen Andersen [22]
   Re: Tribute To Graham & Gordon - Velez - John Velez [4]
   Tribute To Graham & Gordon - Roy Hale - The Lost Haven [20]

  Sep 24:

   Press Release - Paradigm Research Group - 09-24-03 - Stephen Bassett
   [33]

  Sep 25:

   Re: US Air Force Bases 1953? - Hall - Richard Hall [3]
   Reich & UFOs [was: Is Your Name On This FBI List?] - David Rudiak [22]
   Latest Ad Submission For Publication In The - Larry W. Bryant [42]
   Re: 4602 AISS Records? - Speiser - Jim Speiser [7]

  Sep 26:

   Re: World's First Alien Abductee - Lowry - Louise A. Lowry [21]
   Press Update On Carlisle Barracks SNAFU - Larry W. Bryant [13]
   Re: Is Your Name On This FBI List? - Speiser - Jim Speiser [3]
   Re: 4602 AISS Records? - Speiser - Jim Speiser [4]
   CIA Claims Its Crank Mail Procedures Are Secret - Larry W. Bryant [27]
   Beyond UFO Abductions - Eustaquio Andrea Patounas [418]
   'Beyond UFO Abductions' - Eustaquio Andrea Patounas [417]
   Mysterious 1959 Incident - Kenny Young [55]
   Cochrane Alberta - Brian Vike - HBCC UFO [26]
   UFO Magazine UK - Philip Mantle [26]
   Re: Mysterious 1959 Incident - Hall - Richard Hall [9]
   Re: Shame On SCI-FI & Fenton Bailey - Decker - Ron Decker [24]
   Re: World's First Alien Abductee - Andersen - Kathleen Andersen [12]
   Re: UFO Magazine UK - Gevaerd - A. J. Gevaerd - Revista UFO [26]
   Re: Mysterious 1959 Incident - Hatch - Larry Hatch [24]
   Re: World's First Alien Abductee - Andersen - Kathleen Andersen [12]

  Sep 27:

   Secrecy News -- 09/26/03 - Steven Aftergood [111]
   Re: Mysterious 1959 Incident - Jones - Sean Jones [17]
   UFO Crashes Questioned - Noel Herbiet [50]
   September 2002 UFO photos? - Ray Stanford [25]
   Giant Triangle UFOs - Greg Boone [40]
   Re: Mysterious 1959 Incident - Speiser - Jim Speiser [4]
   The Truth Is Out There But It's Classified - Eustaquio Andrea Patounas
   [37]
   Re: Mysterious 1959 Incident - Christol - Michael Christol [48]
   FOIA Request Listing Posted At The Memory Hole - Larry W. Bryant [28]
   Review: Illegitimus Non Carborundum - Mac Tonnies [39]

  Sep 26:

   Re: UFO Magazine UK - Gevaerd - A. J. Gevaerd - Revista UFO [26]

  Sep 27:

   Re: Giant Triangle UFOs - Richardson - Geoff Richardson [5]
   Re: UFO Crashes Questioned - Balaskas - Nick Balaskas [69]
   Re: Giant Triangle UFOs - Richardson - Geoff Richardson [5]
   Re: UFO Crashes Questioned - Balaskas - Nick Balaskas [69]
   Re: UFO Crashes Questioned - Hamilton - Bill Hamilton [17]
   Re: Mysterious 1959 Incident - Hall - Richard Hall [12]
   AA Crash Site Assistance Requested - Ed Gehrman [23]
   Re: Mysterious 1959 Incident - Hall - Richard Hall [4]
   Re: UFO Crashes Questioned - Hamilton - Bill Hamilton [17]

  Sep 28:

   Re: UFO Crashes Questioned - Jacobson - Eric Jacobson [18]
   Re: UFO Crashes Questioned - Friedman - Stanton Friedman [38]
   Re: UFO Crashes Questioned - Friedman - Stanton Friedman [38]
   Vancouver, British Columbia 09-25-03 - Brian Vike - HBCC UFO [38]
   Two Reports From HBCC UFO Research - Brian Vike - HBCC UFO [73]
   'Grey' Photographed In Graveyard? - Greg Boone [6]

  Sep 27:

   Re: UFO Crashes Questioned - Balaskas - Nick Balaskas [69]
   Re: Mysterious 1959 Incident - Hall - Richard Hall [12]
   Has There Ever Been An 'Overflight'? - Daniel Guenther [16]

  Sep 29:

   July 29, 1952 Port Huron? - Todd Lemire [16]
   Terrace, British Columbia - 09-27-03 - Brian Vike - HBCC UFO [38]
   Re: Has There Ever Been An 'Overflight'? - Hatch - Larry Hatch [44]
   Re: Mysterious 1959 Incident - Hatch - Larry Hatch [19]
   Re: UFO Crashes Questioned - Hatch - Larry Hatch [22]
   Re: UFO Crashes Questioned - Gonzalez - Luis R. Gonzalez [8]
   Terrace, British Columbia - 09-27-03 - Brian Vike - HBCC UFO [38]
   Re: UFO Crashes Questioned - Hamilton - Bill Hamilton [16]
   Paper On ST-48 Object Trajectories - Lan Fleming [23]
   Re: UFO Crashes Questioned - Aldrich - Jan Aldrich [30]
   Re: UFO Crashes Questioned - Herbiet - Noel Herbiet [33]
   Lights In Strand Sky Spur UFO Theories - Eustaquio Andrea Patounas [83]
   Re: UFO Crashes Questioned - Herbiet - Noel Herbiet [39]
   Re: UFO Crashes Questioned - Herbiet - Noel Herbiet [30]
   Re: 'Grey' Photographed In Graveyard? - Tonnies - Mac Tonnies [27]

  Sep 30:

   Airdrie, Alberta - August 23, 2003 - Brian Vike - HBCC UFO [73]
   Re: UFO Crashes Questioned - Stevenson - Colin Stevenson [19]
   Re: 'Grey' Photographed In Graveyard? - Stevenson - Colin Stevenson [6]
   Directions To Graham Birdsall's Funeral - Max Burns [39]
   OSI Reports In Project Bluebook Archives? - Keith Chester [39]
   Sci Fi's Kecksburg Crash Documentary Airs October - Steven Kaeser [13]
   Re: UFO Crashes In Africa - Jonnaert - Thierry Jonnaert [44]
   Re: UFO Crashes Questioned - Balaskas - Nick Balaskas [34]

   The number enclosed in brackets is the number of lines of new text in





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   Sep > Sep 1

                   Re: More Bentwaters Information - Bruni

From: Georgina Bruni <georgina@easynet.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 10:06:53 +0100
Fwd Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2003 22:53:48 -0400
Subject: Re: More Bentwaters Information - Bruni


>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 14:42:26 +0000
>Subject: Re: More Bentwaters Information

>>From: Nick Pope <nick@popemod.freeserve.co.uk>
>>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 01:26:29 +0100
>>Subject: More Bentwaters Information


>Thanks for keeping us informed. It seems exceedingly unlikely to
>me in the first place that Conde would be driving a police car
>through the woods outside the base, especially on his own hook.
>Wouldn't that be in violation of territorial law governing
>actions off the base in British territory? Unless he wanted to
>risk arrest, he would have at least had to obtain permission from
>his superiors to drive a police car through the woods and to be
>there on some kind of official duty or mission.


Richard,

Regarding Conde's alleged hoax, which as Nick points out, claims
to have taken place on the taxiway inside the base, I received
the follwing from a USAF lawyer who was on the base at the time:


"Georgina, No, I don't remember this guy

<snip>

If this guy had done that, we would have taken action against
him. Not sure exactly what violation of the Uniform Code of
Military Justice it would come under but I'd have found
something to punish him for these actions, (the costs involved
in deploying troops to the scene, probably violating rules
pertaining to use of government vehicles, etc.)

You are certainly sufficiently acquainted with the Wing Commnder
and his staff to know General Williams would not have tolerated
such misconduct. Whatever this guy has said he did, it would
not, in my opinion have escaped action, if the military
authorities knew of it at the time."


Georgina Bruni









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   Sep > Sep 1

                     UFO Sighting Excites Alien Hunters

From: Eustaquio Andrea Patounas <socex@terra.com.br>
Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2003 07:39:48 -0300
Fwd Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2003 22:55:17 -0400
Subject: UFO Sighting Excites Alien Hunters


Source: Suffolk Evening Star

http://www.eveningstar.co.uk/Content/news/story.asp?datetime=30+Aug+2003+18%3A57
&tbrand=ESTOnline&tCategory=News&category=News&brand=ESTOnline&itemid=IPED30+Aug
+2003+07%3A57%3A10%3A890

August 30, 2003 18:57

UFO investigators are targeting Suffolk in their quest to find alien life.

The county has become the focus for alien hunters, in a case
worthy of X files agents Mulder and Scully, after a strange
sighting of an apparently alien craft in the skies over east
Suffolk.

Eagle-eyed residents living along the banks of the River Orwell
may have witnessed a close encounter of the third kind if they
had glanced up at the starry sky.

A strange yellow D-shaped object was spotted overhead by a man
in his garden at Freston.

He watched in wonder as the UFO changed shape before it altered
course and flew off at around 11pm on August 5.

But instead of phoning home, like Steven Spielberg's ET, the man
called the operator who put him through to Contact an
organisation based in Oxfordshire that records and researches
UFO sightings.

They treat all reported sightings in the strictest confidence so
were not prepared to identify the witness.

The object could not have been very high as the witness saw an
aeroplane flying above it, but he knew it was not the moon as he
could see this clearly.

It was not the police helicopter either. According to a police
spokeswoman the helicopter was not in the area that night.

Contact spokesman, Michael Sopher, said: "It would interesting
to know if anyone else saw the same thing.

"Any sightings over the Ipswich area are of great interest to us
due to the historic events at Rendlesham. New evidence recently
released from the government admits that this event was a proper
UFO landing."

Rendlesham is renowned worldwide for the events in 1980 when
American airmen claimed a UFO landed in the forest at their
airbase.

The events remain unexplained although recently someone came
forward claiming to have hoaxed the strange events.

However Mr Sopher believes no one could have damaged leaves
hanging 50ft up in the trees or caused the surge in
radioactivity measured in the area.

He added: "In East Anglia reported sightings differ from other
areas. There are lots of reports of strange objects flying
inland from the sea and then back again.

"There was a wave of UFO sightings in Birmingham in June. Many
people reported seeing lights zig-zagging in the sky near the
airport.

"At the time there was a geomagnetic storm which we believe
causes people to be more spontaneous and tends to make people
who see something more likely to report it."

N Did you see the strange object? Write in to Your Letters,
Evening Star, 30 Lower Brook Street, Ipswich, IP4 1AN or email
eveningstarletters@eveningstar.co.uk or visit the forum at
www.eveningstar.co.uk.

FACTFILE

Rendlesham Britain's most famous UFO encounter.

Happened during three nights over Christmas in 1980 when it is a
UFO crash landed in Rendlesham Forest close to the American
airbase.

Two airmen went to investigate strange lights in the forest and
came across a metallic glowing object which manoeuvred through
the trees and disappeared.

Animals on the nearby farm were said to have gone into a frenzy.

Two nights later the object reappeared base commander Lt Col
Halt reported in a memo to the Ministry of Defence that he had
seen a red sun like object which divided into five.

On the third night the men taped their panicked conversation as
they again started to see lights moving through the trees.

The forest is still an attraction for Ufologists today, some of
whom will spend whole nights there.

WWW.ufology.org.uk







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   Sep > Sep 1

                           Re: Gremlins - Balaskas

From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@yorku.ca>
Date: Mon,  1 Sep 2003 15:41:01 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2003 23:17:55 -0400
Subject: Re: Gremlins - Balaskas


>From: Keith Chester <projectbluebook@erols.com>
>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 08:21:07 -0400
>Subject: Gremlins


>Hello List,

>Gremlins -  1. An imaginary gnomelike creature to whom
>               mechanical problems in aircraft are often
>               attributed.

>            2. A mischief-maker. (origin unknown)

>                  --The American Heritage Dictionary.

<snip>


Hi Keith! Hi Everyone!

The "Gremlins" were at it again on Saturday, August 30, in the
skies over Ottawa - the same day your e-mail was posted on UFO
UpDates.

While driving together with my youngest sister to the Ottawa
General Hospital (where my father is a patient) I counted 19 hot
air balloons low along the horizon in the same direction we were
heading. I commented to her that the pilots and passengers in
some of these balloons, all still just small spots in the sky
from our vantage point, seemed to be flying dangerously close to
the ground.

By the time we reached these balloons about 15 minutes later,
they were just clearing powerlines, trees and homes in this part
of the city near the hospital and in the process of making
emergency landings on nearby parks and school fields. One of
these hot air balloons had the shape of the head of a blue
gremlin(?) with red nose, white eyes and wings instead of ears
or horns. This blue gremlin passed directly over us where we
heard and saw tall tongues of yellow flames shooting up out the
burner beneath its head before landing next to our car (a little
later I got a nice picture of it on the ground behind some trees
from the nearby hospital parking garage building).

Although the evening news on TV made mention of 3 hot air
balloons that were forced to make unplanned landings in this
National Capital neighbourhood, I have pictures of a total of 5
of these balloons as they landed even before police or their
ground support teams reached them. Fortunately no one was hurt.

What I found very interesting was just how quickly these huge
balloons, big as multi-storey buildings, were gathered up. Some
people with the support team rolled their bodies over one of
these large round balloons to quickly deflate it and minimized
the damage to the vegetation beneath it. I wonder if the owner
of that field later reported a large round mysteriously formed
crop circle that he did not notice there just minutes earlier!
 ;o)


Nick Balaskas

P.S. There are official looking documents and witness accounts
that tell us about two unidentified flying objects which crashed
and were recovered in both Germany and Italy in the years before
the start of WWII. I would not be surprised if your gremlins
turn out to be the captured occupants of these two UFO crashes.





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   Sep > Sep 2

                  Pocket Books Partners With SCI FI Channel

From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 12:09:14 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 13:22:46 -0400
Subject: Pocket Books Partners With SCI FI Channel


For Immediate Release:

Pocket Books Partners With Sci Fi Channel For Multi-Book Deal


New York, NY, August 25, 2003: The SCI FI Channel has signed a
three-book deal with Pocket Books for projects spun off from its
successful SCI FI Declassified franchise of original documentary
specials. The first title will be SCI FI DECLASSIFIED: The
Roswell Dig Diaries, based on SCI FI Channel's highest-rated
original special, "The Roswell Crash: Startling New Evidence,"
which documented the first groundbreaking archaeological
excavation of the Roswell crash site. The book will be released
as a trade paperback in November 2003. Pocket Books Associate
Editor, Jessica McGivney, was responsible for the acquisition.
National on-air promotion for SCI FI DECLASSIFIED: The Roswell
Dig Diaries will appear during broadcasts of SCI FI's newest
Declassified special, The New Roswell: Kecksburg Exposed, in
October 2003.

SCI FI DECLASSIFIED: The Roswell Dig Diaries will reveal never-
before-seen information about the 1947 crash at Roswell, and
will contain the first public release of the final
archaeological report on the landmark dig. The book also
contains a special foreword by New Mexico Governor Bill
Richardson.

The "Roswell Incident" has become one of the most enduring
mysteries in the history of UFOlogy and the SCI FI Channel
recently reopened the case and sponsored an onsite investigation
to search for the truth. Archaeologists from the University of
New Mexico, in partnership with The SCI FI Channel, set out to
uncover conclusive physical evidence to help prove whether the
claim of an extraterrestrial craft crash is science fiction or
science fact. UNM's final report and the personal journals,
written by everyone from the project leader, Dr. Bill Doleman,
to Roswell Report authors/investigators Thomas J. Carey and
Donald R. Schmitt, to SCI FI Channel Senior Vice President of
Programming Thomas Vitale is compiled here for the first time.

"Teaming up with the SCI FI Channel was a natural for us," said
Scott Shannon, VP & Associate Publisher, Pocket Books. "With
their groundbreaking documentary programming and award-winning
website (www.scifi.com) they have become one of the nation's
premiere clearinghouses for authoritative information on UFOs
and other unexplained phenomenon. We felt that partnering with
them to release this information to the public was a wonderful
idea."


-more-


Book Deal Release - Page 2


"We are thrilled to be partnering with Pocket Books on the SCI
FI DECLASSIFIED book projects," said David Howe, SVP Marketing
of SCI FI Channel. "These tie-in companions to our ongoing
franchise of investigatory specials provide yet another outlet
for us to reach the public with more astounding facts in our on-
going quest to uncover the truth behind the world's unexplained
mysteries."

SCI FI DECLASSIFIED is a SCI FI Channel initiative to demystify
the place where science fiction meets science fact. From the
dangers of nanotechnology to extraterrestrial encounters, SCI FI
DECLASSIFIED explores and champions the issues that confound and
confuse the human species. Through groundbreaking documentary
programming and advocacy-based public affairs efforts, SCI FI
works to expand the contemporary definitions of science fiction
to include ideas, concepts, myths and legends that simply cannot
be explained.

SCI FI Channel is a television network where "what if" is what's
on. SCI FI fuels the imagination of viewers with original
series and events, blockbuster movies and classic science
fiction and fantasy programming, as well as a dynamic website
(www.scifi.com) and magazine. Launched in 1992, and currently
in 80 million homes, SCI FI Channel is a program service of
Universal Television Networks, part of the Universal Television
Group (www.universalstudios.com), a division of Vivendi
Universal Entertainment (VUE), the U.S.-based film, television
and recreation entity of Vivendi Universal, a global media and
communications company.

Pocket Books is a division of Simon & Schuster, part of the
entertainment operation of Viacom Inc., is a global leader in
the field of general interest publishing, dedicated to providing
the best in fiction and nonfiction for consumers of all ages,
across all printed, electronic, and multimedia formats. Its
divisions include the Simon & Schuster Adult Publishing Group,
Simon & Schuster Children's Publishing, Simon & Schuster New
Media, Simon & Schuster Online, and international companies in
Australia, Canada, and the United Kingdom. For more information,
visit our website at www.simonsays.com

###

Contact:

Hillary Schupf/Pocket Books       212-698-7579
hillary.schupf@simonandschuster.com

Lisa Del Colle/SCI FI Channel      212-413-5421
lisa.delcolle@unistudios.com







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   Sep > Sep 2

                                 UFO Street

From: Eustaquio Andrea Patounas <socex@terra.com.br>
Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 13:39:42 -0300
Fwd Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 16:08:26 -0400
Subject: UFO Street


Source: Preston Today - UK

http://www.prestontoday.net/ViewArticle2.aspx?SectionID=3D73&ArticleID=3D650=
791

Tue September 2 2003

When Mary Carter saw lights flashing outside her home she did
not think twice about going to investigate.

To her surprise, when she left her living room on Percy Road,
Lancaster, and went outside to have a look, she discovered the
twinkling lights were coming from a low flying aircraft.

A couple of minutes later the lights were gone and she went back
into her house.

But to her absolute astonishment Mary realised that she had been
outside for 50 minutes, not just the two that she thought.

Mary, a nurse, could not explain what had happened to make so
much time vanish.

For years the mystery nagged at her leaving her with a great
sense of uneasiness.

Visions drifted in and out of her mind. She felt she had been
cut, had something placed on her forehead and had floated in the
air.

She thought she would never unravel the mystery surrounding the
events on that chilling Saturday night.

That was until she got in contact with supernatural author Peter
Hough, who was chairman of the Northern Anomalies Research
Organisation.

When Peter heard Mary's story he agreed to help her and
suggested hypnosis as a way to unlock any suppressed and trapped
memories.

Peter, from Leigh, nearWigan, has been a writer, researcher and
investigator of the unexplained for more than 20 years and
accompanied Mary through her journey of discovery.

"When I first went to see her she had a problem and the problem
was that she had this very strange experience a few years
previously and it had been niggling away at her over the years.
She knew there was more to remember, she wanted some sort of
closure on it and she thought I could give her some answers.

"She was hoping I would be able to tell her it was all a fantasy
or an illusion, which is interesting.

"Most people not involved in the subject assume people like me
want to believe in what has happened, but it is quite the
reverse."

Mary underwent three sessions of hypnosis with Peter by her
side.

"In some respects this brought elements to life which had
previously been vanished."

The details these sessions brought to light shocked Peter and
left Mary even more uncomfortable and traumatised.

During the sessions she talked about small people dressed in
silver with slitted eyes appearing before her.

She remembered standing on her doorstep then being paralysed,
enveloped in a beam of light and finding herself in a strange
room lying on a table.

She then described a series of medical experiments being carried
out on her. Wires were attached to her forehead, blood was taken
from behind her ear and her palm print was recorded.

While Mary found all of this disturbing, it was nothing compared
to what she revealed in the final session.

Peter explained that she said that this had all being happening
since she was a baby and that the abductions had taken place
every four years or so.

The hypnosis was stopped as it was becoming too distressing for
Mary, who was determined not to believe what she was saying was
true.

Peter says that some people are keen to simply say they have
been abducted by extraterrestrials while others will say it is
all a dream.

"The thing about hypnosis is that it does not act as a truth
drug.

"I always tell people it does not necessarily give the objective
truth it shows what you believed happened to you, not
necessarily what actually happened.

"It is a usual tool to use when you are investigating a case
like this.

"Quite often it does fill in the gaps, in some cases people feel
better because they now know what happened during their missing
time.

"What is usually worse is not knowing at all.

"In Mary's case I did try and see if anybody else remembered
anything about what happened, but we did not get anything.

"That is what usually happens when there has been a large
passage of time.

"The way I go about investigating is to take every case on its
merits.

"Quite often people report seeing a UFO and at least 90% of the
time they have seen aircraft landing lights, weather balloons --
people do misidentify things a lot."

In Mary's case the events that she described had a ring of truth
to them.

"In some respects the story that unfolded particularly under
hypnosis was fairly typical of abduction cases that have emerged
around the world.

"It was not a great surprise. It has a lot of common elements to
it including missing time, undergoing some kind of medical exam
and the feeling of paralysis."

e-mail: laura.kennerley@lep.co.uk







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   Sep > Sep 2

                       UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 8 Number 33

From: John Hayes <webmaster@ufoinfo.com>
Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 20:20:37 +0100
Fwd Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 16:39:08 -0400
Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 8 Number 33


Posted on behalf of Joseph Trainor.

<Masinaigan@aol.com>
==========================

      UFO ROUNDUP
Volume 8, Number 33
September 3, 2003
Editor: Joseph Trainor

E-mail: <Masinaigan@aol.com>
Website: http://www.ufoinfo.com/roundup/


STRANGE BLACKOUT KILLS
ELECTRICITY IN LONDON

      Another mysterious blackout occurred last week, when
"power went out in London and parts of southeast England,
stranding hundreds of thousands of commuters" for about 45
minutes on Thursday, August 28, 2003.
      Half a million people were affected when the outage
struck in London and the county of Kent, southeast of the
city.
      The blackout brought "much of the London Underground
(subway) and regional trains to a halt at rush hour."
      "Overland train service was temporarily halted in
those areas and trains were canceled or delayed throughout
the evening.  Problems on London's aging subway system
(affectionately called The Tube--J.T.) were also
widespread and long-lasting."
      "The power problem originated in two high-voltage
lines belonging to the national power grid that help
supply the Wimbledon area of southwest London."
      The blackout in London came exactly two weeks after a
massive blackout in the USA and Canada on Thursday, August
14, 2003, that turned off electrical power to 50 million
people from New York City to Detroit.  (See USA Today for
August 29, 2003, "40-minute power outage hits London,"
page 5A; the Minneapolis, Minn. Star-Tribune for August
29, 2003, "Power failure jolts London," page A15; and the
Duluth, Minn. News-Tribune for August 29, 2003, "Blackout
snarls the Underground," page 2A.)
(Editor's Comment:  Another blackout!  What do you think,
readers?  Is somebody gunning for the coalition Allies?)


ANOTHER BLACKOUT UFO
SEEN IN NORTHERN OHIO

      A triangular UFO was spotted over Toledo, Ohio
(population 313,619), a port city at the western end of
Lake Erie, the day before the big blackout.
      Eyewitness Lissy Dunning reported, "The date would
have been (Wednesday) August 13 (2003).  It was very
strange, and we won't forget what it was.  I wasn't sure
how to draw it, but it was triangle-shaped with a bar
across the front.  I'm 42 years old and have never seen
anything like it."
      "In talking to my ex-boyfriend and his cousin, when
we described it, they thought it was either a Stealth
fighter (F-117) or an F-22.  My daughter and I viewed
pictures of both on the Internet, and it was neither.  We
didn't see any engines, and the closest we have been able
to come to a description in terms of if it's an aircraft,
is the Aurora."
      "However, the pictures of the Aurora don't look
exactly like what we saw.  The dimensions are hard to
estimate because it was very high up in the sky.  But it
was tan versus black, like in pictures of the Aurora, and
it was the same triangular shape, but my daughter thinks
the bar in front could have been some kind of stabilizer.
It was heading southeast, which is away from the airport.
I find this quite odd, as well, since the planes that go
over don't generally fly in this direction."
      Twenty-four hours after Lissy Dunning's sighting, a
strange and still unexplained "event" in the electrical
lines of the Lake Erie region triggered the biggest mass
blackout in American history.  (See Filer's Files for
August 28, 2003.  Many thanks to George A. Filer for
allowing UFO Roundup to use this newsletter article.)


BLACK HELICOPTERS ARE
SPOTTED IN HOLLYWOOD

      Several mysterious black helicopters were seen over
Hollywood in southern California at 1 p.m. on Thursday,
August 14, 2003, the precise moment that the unexplained
outage halted electrical power to 50 million people in the
northeastern USA and in Canada.
(Editor's Note: 1 p.m. Pacific Daylight Time in Hollywood
is 4 p.m. Eastern Daylight Time on the USA's East Coast.)
      Eyewitness James Koy reported, "It didn't have much
significance at the time, but on the day of the blackout
(Thursday, August 14, 2003), my telemarketer co-worker had
been complaining to himself about not being able to get
some kind of information from his National Guard contacts
due to alleged 'downed' government computers."
      "While driving home from my job, I saw three unusual
helicopters (very dark and large, military style--J.K.)
flying fairly low over the clear-skied city of Hollywood.
This all happened just before 1 p.m. Pacific time which
would be just before the 4 p.m. 'blackout' on the East
Coast.  Just thought I'd let you know."
      In other black helicopter news, mysterious choppers
flying in groups of three and four were seen Thursday,
August 28, 2003, flying low over a few communities in
southeastern Massachusetts.
      The black helicopters, identified as UH-60
Blackhawks, were seen flying and hovering over single
homes and wooded areas in the Bakers Corner area of
Seekonk, Mass., Tremont Street and Route 118 in Rehoboth,
Mass., and the Hebronville and Dodgeville sections of
Attleboro, Mass. (population 42,068).
      All three communities, located about 30 miles (50
kilometers) southwest of Boston, have had repeated black
helicopter sightings this summer.  (Many thanks to James
Koy and Mary Lou Jones-Drown for these reports.)


DAYLIGHT DISC SPOTTED
IN ANAHEIM, CALIFORNIA

      On Saturday, August 23, 2003, at 1:20 p.m., Kevin
Seeger was driving on Interstate Highway I-5 in Anaheim,
California (population 328,014), about 25 miles (40
kilometers) southeast of Los Angeles, when he spotted a
disc-shaped UFO.
      "I was traveling north on I-5 in Anaheim," Kevin
reported, "I had just gotten onto the freeway at Katella
Drive and had negotiated the crossing of two lanes when I
scanned the sky.  There were some clouds, and aircraft
appeared clearly as reflecting glints coming and going
from LAX (Los Angeles International Airport--J.T.)."
      "Much nearer to me was a glint that was moving
relatively fast in the sky (due to my motion towards it--
K.S.)  I kept an eye on it as I drove, expecting it to be
a Mylar balloon.  But as I approached it, it was clearly
saucer-shaped.  As I passed under it, I lost my vantage.
Had I been in a middle lane, I would have found the
shoulder (gotten off the freeway--J.T.), but I was not yet
at traffic speed and was unable to get to a safe stop."
      "I got a good look at it as I passed under it.  It
was clearly white with red splotches, kind of a marbling
(coloration).  I couldn't tell if the red was energy,
because it looked to me as if it differed from the white
only in color.  It seemed only as high as a tall building,
and I experienced no EM (electromagnetic) issues with the
car.  This craft was extremely fast, and with no
noticeable 'bubble' on top from my angle of viewing."
(Email Form Report)


UFOs ARE SIGHTED
IN AUSTRALIA

      On Monday, August 25, 2003, at 8 p.m., the male
witness "had just finished work and was walking to my car"
in Melbourne, the capital of Australia's southern state of
Victoria, when two UFOs approached from the west.
      "It was a cool, clear evening with a few dissipating
clouds, and I looked skyward to view the stars.  Suddenly,
across the sky, travelling at extreme speeds, were two
light bluish beams of light running parallel and quite
close to each other."
      "At first I thought that it was just a shooting star,
but the trajectory was too straight and too level, and the
tail of a shooting star is normally solid.  The beams
quickly crossed the sky and disappeared behind a cloud."
      "My conclusion is that the light beams are the
exhaust of thruster rockets of some craft driven perhaps
by a nuclear-powered ion propulsion engine.  I could not
make out a shape in front of the beams, so I wasn't really
sure what exactly I saw."
      The UFOs "were at 30,000 feet (9,000 meters) and
travelling five times faster than your average commercial
jet."
      Two days later, on Wednesday, August 27, 2003, at
8:20 p.m., in Boronia, Vic., eyewitness S.R. reported, "My
father rang me and said he had just seen these strange
orange lights below cloud level move across the city.  I
rang the Boronia police station, and they said they had
had lots of phone calls about it."
      S.R.'s father described his sighting as "ten orange
lights with an orange glow, moving slowly across the sky."
(Email Form Reports)


ANOTHER UFO SIGHTED
IN CARACAS, VENEZUELA

      Venezuela's UFO flap entered its second week with a
new sighting in Caracas, the national capital.
      According to CEINPLA, Venezuela's UFO research group,
the sighting took place on Wednesday, August 27, 2003.
      "Sra. G. Gutierrez Lomas witnessed a strange light
which split in two at midnight (Wednesday, August 27,
2003) from the El Silencio sector of downtown Caracas.
The light appeared to be moving from the La Candelaria
sector to the Ruperto Lugo sector, where it made a sudden
inexplicable turn and made a beeline for the now-famous
Cerro El Avila mountain area," the site of the first
week's UFO sightings.
      CEINPLA interviewed Sra. Gutierrez on Thursday,
August 28, 2003.  (Muchas gracias a Scott Corrales y
Martha Rosenthal para esas noticias.)


FOUR PEOPLE SEE A UFO IN
SCARBOROUGH, ONTARIO

      On Thursday, August 21, 2003, at 8 p.m., in
Scarborough, Ontario, Canada, eyewitness K.B. reported, "I
was looking straight up in the sky and noticed a very
bright object which I thought was a star.  I motioned to
my husband, and we both watched as it moved slowly and
slightly south.  I called my daughter and mother outside
to see it, as we thought it could be Mars (supposed to be
very close to Earth around this date--K.B.)."
      "All of a sudden, the light started to glow off and
on like it was on fire.  An orange/yellow radiance off and
on.  Then my daughter noticed that there were two more
forming a triangle."
      "My husband looked up and noticed a lime-olive-
colored green string of some kind that stretched from my
neighbor's house, across our yard, over our patio umbrella
and up into the very high trees.  My husband tried to pull
it down and eventually did.  It is like nothing I have
ever seen before."
      "We then looked up and watched as the lights then
moved south quicker and eventually disappeared.  I did not
call anyone because I felt nobody would believe us.  All
told, there were four people who saw this strange event."
(Email Form Report)
(Editor's Note:  Now, the "green string" is a very rare
Fortean phenomenon which researcher Ivan D. Sanderson
called "fishlines of the gods."  A case identical to
K.B.'s took place on August 6, 1970 in Caldwell, New
Jersey.  See the book Weird America by Jim Brandon, E.P.
Dutton, New York, N.Y., 1978, pages 139 and 140.)


MYSTERIOUS PLANE CRASH
CAUSES STIR IN IRELAND

      "Reports of a crashed aircraft led to a big search
and rescue operation yesterday (Monday, August 25, 2003)"
in County Kerry, Ireland.
      "But late last night the operation in Kerry was being
scaled down amid puzzlement about what, if anything, had
been sighted."
      "The search, including Gardai (Irish national police-
-J.T.), units of the Coastguard, fire brigades and the
Shannon-based Sikorsky helicopter was launched at 6:30
p.m. after two people on the Dingle peninsula reported
seeing an aircraft in difficulty."
      "One man, out for an evening walk, claimed he saw an
aircraft swooping low out of the sun with smoke and flames
trailing from it.  The sighting took place close to
Lispole on the Dingle to Anascaul road."
      "'It was about 2,000 feet (600 meters) up, and there
were flames and smoke coming from its tail,' the man told
one Coastguard official."
      "A second individual also reported seeing and
aircraft in apparent difficulty."
      "Gardai have called on the pilot of a mystery
aircraft, which sparked off a major search operation in
West Kerry after reports that it had crashed Monday
evening, to come forward."
      "Dingle-based Sgt. Mossie O'Donnell yesterday
(Tuesday, August 26, 2003) said there was a plane around
the Lispole area at the time the alarm was raised, and it
was seen heading in a southerly direction toward
Glenbeigh, County Kerry."
      "'We are trying to trace the plane so as to clear up
the situation,' he said, 'We are now satisfied there
wasn't a crash, but it was most certainly not a hoax.
Eyewitnesses genuinely thought they saw a plane coming
down.'"
      "A number of people reported hearing a loud bang, and
one man said he had seen flames in the mountainous Maum
area.  Up to 100 people were involved in the search."
(See the Irish Independent for August 26, 2003,
"Coastguards call off search in plane crash mystery," and
The Examiner of Ireland for August 27, 2003, "Gardai
appeal for pilot of plane in crash scare to come forward."
Many thanks to Dave Walsh for these newspaper articles.)


CROP CIRCLES DISCOVERED
IN BRITISH COLUMBIA

      An unusual crop formation, shaped like Neptune's
trident, was found near Abbotsford in Canada's western
province of British Columbia on Tuesday, August 26, 2003,
"along with other circles and a half-circle in corn,
approximately 55 meters (180 feet) long."
      The formation was "first seen by Mike Black while
flying over the area."
      Abbotsford, B.C. (population 105,403) is located
"about 70 kilometers (46 miles) east of Vancouver and a
few miles west of the Agassiz, B.C. formation," which was
found two weeks ago.  (Many thanks to Paul Anderson of
Canadian Crop Circle Research Network for this report.)


      Well, that's it for this week.  Join us in seven days
for more UFO, Fortean and paranormal news from around the
planet Earth, brought to you by "the paper that goes home-
-UFO Roundup."  See you next time.

UFO ROUNDUP: Copyright 2003 by Masinaigan Productions, all
rights reserved.  Readers may post news items from UFO
Roundup on their Web sites or in news groups provided that
they credit the newsletter and its editor by name and list
the date of issue in which the item first appeared.

E-Mail Reports to: Joseph Trainor <Masinaigan@aol.com>
or use the Sighting Report Form at:

http://www.ufoinfo.com/forms/form_sighting.htm

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plus archives of Humanoid Sighting Reports (Albert
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   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Sep > Sep 2

                Re: Private Aircraft Damage Event - Stanford

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker@earthlink.net>
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 15:07:31 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 16:10:11 -0400
Subject: Re: Private Aircraft Damage Event - Stanford


>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
>Date: Tue, 09 Sept 2003
>Subject: Re: Private Aircraft Damage Event

<snip>

>As we speak, plans are being made to have all three of these
>men, Jaime Maussan, the pilot, Capt. Ruano and air traffic
>controller Kolbeck on _this_Saturday_night's_broadcast of
>'Strange Days... Indeed'! We will be discussing the report of an
>aircraft collision that transpired in the airspace over a major
>'world-class' international airport (not to mention the
>_largest_ city in the world, Mexico City) that involved a UFO.
>(unknown)

>It promises to be informative and riveting.

<snip>

>I am so looking forward to this interview. Hope that all of you
>can join us -live- via the Web next Saturday night September 6th
>at 9 PM Eastern Standard Time at:

>http://www.cfrb.com/

>Let's all look into the report of a collision of a commercial
>aircraft with a "UFO" (unknown) -together.

>John Velez

Thanks, John, for getting into that case and giving us the
'heads-up'.

Sounds exciting. I, for one, surely want to hear it.

Ray Stanford

"You know my method.  It is founded upon the observance of
trifles." -- Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery









   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Sep > Sep 2

                  Re: More Bentwaters Information - Boeche

From: Ray Boeche <rayboeche@neb.rr.com>
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 14:59:05 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 16:51:54 -0400
Subject: Re: More Bentwaters Information - Boeche


>From: Georgina Bruni <georgina@easynet.co.uk>
>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 10:06:53 +0100
>Subject: Re: More Bentwaters Information

<snip>

>Regarding Conde's alleged hoax, which as Nick points out, claims
>to have taken place on the taxiway inside the base, I received
>the follwing from a USAF lawyer who was on the base at the time:

>"Georgina, No, I don't remember this guy

><snip>

>If this guy had done that, we would have taken action against
>him. Not sure exactly what violation of the Uniform Code of
>Military Justice it would come under but I'd have found
>something to punish him for these actions, (the costs involved
>in deploying troops to the scene, probably violating rules
>pertaining to use of government vehicles, etc.)

>You are certainly sufficiently acquainted with the Wing Commnder
>and his staff to know General Williams would not have tolerated
>such misconduct. Whatever this guy has said he did, it would
>not, in my opinion have escaped action, if the military
>authorities knew of it at the time."

>Georgina Bruni



Georgina:

I also appreciate your efforts at "keeping the stables clean."

Having done much of the initial work on the Bentwaters incident,
I'm quite familiar with the case, and its course of development
over the years.  I would think it would be glaringly apparent to
anyone who knows the case, that Conde's claims are nonsensical.


Thanks again for your hard work.

Ray Boeche







   UFO UpDates
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   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Sep > Sep 2

                      Filer's Files #36 -- 2003 - Filer

From: George A. Filer <Majorstar@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 15:51:05 EDT
Fwd Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 17:22:08 -0400
Subject: Filer's Files #36 -- 2003 - Filer



Filer's Files #36 -- 2003 Skywatch Investigations.
George A. Filer, Director Mutual UFO Network Eastern
September 2, 2003, Majorstar@aol.com Webmaster: Chuck
Warren -- My website is at: www.GeorgeFiler.com/
Sponsored by: OPC-3

My wife, who makes these files possible, has her birthday
tomorrow so these files are being sent out a day early. Happy
Labor Day.

MARS SPARKS RISE IN UFO SIGHTINGS

The purpose of these files is to report the UFO eyewitness and
photo/video evidence that occurs on a daily basis around the
world and in space. This week's files investigate: Mars -
evidence of heated ancient underground structures, Did UFOs
cause the Blackouts? Maine -science teachers spot green sphere,
New Jersey - whirring sound from a star shaped craft,
Pennsylvania - daylight disc, Virginia - pair of white lights,
Georgia - two cylinders fly side by side, Ohio - daylight
cylinders videotaped, Tennessee - disc shaped craft videotaped
in broad daylight, Texas - three dark mysterious objects in the
afternoon sky, Colorado - couple sees flying triangle while
looking at Mars, California - red, green and blue strobing
lights, Washington - bright star moves slowly, Canada - flying
metallic silver object, Chili - Congress acknowledges importance
of UFO research, Venezuela - two lights over capital, Scotland
silver ball follows airplane, England -circular object with ring
of lights, Belgium - flying triangle, Germany - Mars causes many
UFO reports, Australian -- TV news station airs vivid close up
video of UK saucer, New Zealand very large circle of white light

GULF OF MEXICO - Recent reports indicate that there are many
sightings by ships in the Caribbean Sea and over Mexico
apparently watching hurricane and volcano development. These
craft are expected to move to the Northeast United States in
coming months. Readers should understand the craft normally
seen flying low appear to operate from bases and larger space
ships.

DO UFOs CAUSE BLACKOUTS?

Stephen Crary writes, "I have a serious question/statement about
these power outages? There were major power outages in the
Northeast, all over the US and in Europe in just over a week's
time. More than I have ever seen in my 41 years. There were
outages in Arizona and England and a power outage in my own area
of Bronson, Florida that lasted half a day and covered the
entire county, and last but not least, the newest one in all is
London.

Editor's Answer: There have been an estimated thirty-million UFO
sightings, and frequently UFOs are reported hovering above power
lines and power stations. Power outages are often directly
associated with these sightings. There is speculation they use
the electrical energy for power. There appears to be clear cause
and effect evidence, but no irrefutable proof. There are
thousands of cases where hovering UFOs have knocked out the
electrical system in automobiles, adversely effected
televisions, radios, radar's, aircraft instruments and other
electronic systems. The Disclosure Project has detailed cases
of Minuteman Missile failure connected to UFOs. Power experts
shake their heads and claim they don't understand why their
power grids suddenly failed. A month later some obscure
switching device that has operated normally for years will be
blamed. Yet, we can point to many similar switches failing when
UFOs are near by. The authorities are afraid to mention the
cause was associated with UFOs. Occasionally, they will admit to
unknown phenomenon, or unexplained metals being found on the
leading edge of crashed aircraft. We receive 400 to 500
sightings in the US each month, mostly from multiple witnesses
usually with excellent backgrounds who can write and use the
Internet. I suggest its time to investigate various aircraft
accidents, power failures, and claims of abductions with the
realization that UFOs are real. It is interesting to note that
Chile's Congress has approved UFO research, French general's and
admirals produced a study on UFOs, and that China has asked the
UN for an exchange of UFO information.

MARS - UNDERGROUND HEAT

Mars infrared imaging has revealed the presence of underground
heat coming from areas not associated with volcanoes. The
underground heat implies some type of natural geothermal heating
or possibly the work of an advanced species with the technology
to use geothermal energy for artificial heating. The network of
tube like structures on Mars are logically part of this
technology. An abundance of surface water or some artificial
technology could cause the finer features seen on Mars. Some
areas have surprisingly straight channels, tubes, and walls. The
odds are very much against natural forces such as water causing
them so the only plausible conclusion is that they were made by
alien intelligence. A NASA image shows an arrow and four
circular ruins from an area high in underground heat from a
possible underground facility. See: www.GeorgeFiler.com/
Filer's Files #36 views

MARS - CANDOR CITY

After Adam Marturana's discovery of an Osiris-Statue and Step-
Pyramid, Holger Isenberg assumed, that there might by more
artifacts of the Martian civilization nearby. Eventually, by
searching dozens of photos, he found in 1999, what appear to be
the ruins of an ancient city in Candor Chasma! The city is
located on a hill between Ophir and Candor Chasma. You can see
remains of buildings, about 40 to 200 meters wide and 10 to 100
meters high. It is almost impossible, that natural erosion
processes could produce these shapes. The city might be one of
the seven legendary cities on Mars, which are known through old
sagas. The main street on the picture is visible from lower
left to upper right, parallel to the old Martian equator and is
only a few kilometers away from the equator. Astronomer Tom van
Flandern wrote on this topic in his article on the pole shift on
Mars and the position and alignment of the Face on Mars towards
the old equator. You can find similar hints to the old equator
position through other aligned artifacts like this Equinox-
Observatory. http://www.geocities.com/iecanomaly502/,
http://mars-news.de/life/city.html

MAINE -SCIENCE TEACHERS SPOT GREEN SPHERE

NORTHERN MAINE -- We were driving up Route 1 around 10 PM, the
week of August 7, 2003, and pulled off the road at a gravel pit.
My husband, my friend and I were admiring the stars since they
were all so bright. We noticed one that seemed to float down but
barely moved, and looked strange. It moved much too slow for a
plane or satellite. We got back in the car and my husband saw a
green basketball size ball of light just above the power lines
in front of us. It looked not really bright nor was it dim. It
went down and then stopped and went up in a V shaped path. At
the top of the V it vanished. We both agreed upon what we saw.
We are both science teachers and could not come up with an
explanation. It couldn't have been a meteor since it reversed
direction and went up! Thanks to Peter Davenport NUFORC

NEW HAMPSHIRE - DISK CAME INTO VIEW AND THEN VANISHED

HAMPTON BEACH-The photographer writes, "My daughter and
girlfriend went to the beach on a beautiful afternoon about 1
PM, on August 24, 2003, and I started taking photos of my
daughter with my Fuji Finepix 200 digital camera." She started
running down the beach and my girlfriend walked slowly behind. I
took several photos, when I saw something appear out of nowhere,
200 feet out over the ocean. I yelled for my daughter and
girlfriend to look, but the object was gone.

I went home and uploaded them on my computer and one of the
photos included the thing I saw. The object was in only one
photo, and not in others taken a couple of seconds before or a
couple seconds after. ( NUFORC Note: Photo shows thin, dark,
perhaps disc-shaped object in a cloudless sky. It is
interesting. PD)

NEW JERSEY - WHIRRING SOUND FROM STAR SHAPED CRAFT

TINTON FALLS - The witness walked outside to get a pack of
cigarettes, when he heard a low whirring sound at 8 PM on August
24, 2003. He looked up to see a star shaped object giving off
large rays in every direction and moving at an incredible rate
of speed at about 3000 feet altitude. He says, "I estimate the
speed at Mach 7 with a low 'whhhiiirrr' sound trailing it, that
covered one quadrant of sky within eight seconds and then
disappeared heading east towards the ocean. Thanks to Peter
Davenport NUFORC

WATCHUNG -- The observer went shopping at the Home Depot off
Route 22, on August 24, 2003, at 11:55 AM. He says, "I looked
up to watch a commercial jet liner coming over the mountains on
a beautiful clear day." As I watched the jet liner, I noticed
there was a circular object, very high up in the sky above it. A
couple seconds later, I noticed a duplicate object moving behind
the first. Both objects were slowly approaching from the west
and moving toward me. Twenty seconds later the second object
made a 90-degree change of direction to the south, it streaked
and was gone quickly. The first object continued moving toward
me, and seemed to be hovering at a very high altitude. It was
silver and gave off a silver/white glow or sheen. It was
perfectly round in shape and was glowing. I watched the second
object for two minutes plus. The objects were definitely not
conventional aircraft, they were perfectly round in shape and
much smaller than the airplane that had just passed, probably
because they were so much higher in altitude. Thanks to Peter
Davenport NUFORC

PENNSYLVANIA - DAYLIGHT DISC

HAZLETON - During a family cookout at dusk a disc was sighted
crossing over the area very slowly on July 29, 2003, around 7:45
PM. Three witnesses saw the metallic disc fly over and
estimated the size at 35 feet in diameter. A Schnauzer dog
reacted to the UFO sighting by barking and acting very
distressed. The wife said, "It frightened her and she doesn't
want to see that stuff again." The family claimed intimate
knowledge of UFOs, reporting they had witnessed some flying into
a mountain. Telephone Interview.

VIRGINIA - PAIR OF WHITE LIGHTS

COMPTON - On August 23, 2003, while canoe camping along the
South Fork of the Shenandoah River two observers saw a closely
spaced pair of white lights moving southwest at 9:40 PM. There
were no running lights or strobe visible and no engine noise was
heard. The lights were seen at a distance, and appeared
generally star-like to the naked eye. When viewed through
binoculars, the lights were clearly round, and had a "flat"
white light, without the usual twinkle of stars or aircraft
lights. Its speed was equivalent to that of high altitude
aircraft. The night was clear, with many stars visible, and no
moon. Aircraft traffic was observed moving in the same general
direction during the night, but generally at a much higher
azimuth from the observers' position. In August 1998, the same
two observers had a 20-minute sighting from the same location of
numerous star-like objects reversing, disappearing, and
reappearing on a similarly clear night. One of the observers is
a former B-52 crewman. The sighting location is a primitive
campsite in George Washington National Forest, at the foot of
Indian Grave Ridge, and high limestone cliffs. Thanks to
MUFON's Bill Ruxton, bilrux@aol.com

GEORGIA - TWO CYLINDERS FLY SIDE BY SIDE

JEFFERSON -- Mrs. Linda C., a MUFONGA member reports that at 6
PM on Tuesday, August 26, 2003, she saw a small aircraft
overhead and noticed another was gliding across the sky at lower
altitude and slower speed than the normal commercial traffic.
She described this craft as being highly unusual, appearing as
if two cylinders were side by side, but connected with some sort
of middle structure. The cylinders were longer than the center
section, about 1" to 1 1/4" at arm's length (AAL). She watched
for about 20 seconds, when a burst of light emanated from the
craft, appearing to her like huge floodlights. The brilliance of
this flash seemed to be about the size of a quarter AAL. The
unusual craft continued on until it left the area. This
observer has proved reliable and has an eagle eye and a calm
focus that makes her an excellent observer. John Pander of
Suwanee, Georgia will investigate with her to identify what she
observed.

ROME -- Two black rotating "tires" revolving around each other
seen in western sky flying in a southeastern direction in Rome,
GA on August 11, 2003, at 4:30 PM.

MCINTOSH COUNTY TIDAL MARSHES -- At 10:30 AM, Savannah area
minister, his mother, sister and niece were driving north on
Highway 17 on August 27, 2003, and observed an indigo colored
"ball" in the treetops along the roadway. They felt it to be
unusual, but continued driving. Within a very short distance,
they noticed another identical, or else the same, indigo ball in
the treetops that suddenly began to exude sparks and seemed to
start a fire. They continued on to Savannah and upon arrival,
related the event to the Reverend Charles Bowen

HARTSFIELD AIRPORT -- SSD Michael Hitt has finished his inquiry
into the video of nocturnal lights and determined that the
lights were indeed landing aircraft. Even though this event
proved to be mundane, MUFON always appreciates such honest and
cooperative witnesses. Thanks to: Tom Sheets, State Director
MUFONGA new website at www.mufonga.org

TENNESSEE - DISC SHAPED CRAFT VIDEOTAPED IN BROAD DAYLIGHT

BRISTOL - Kim Shaver called to describe an event that took place
on August 2, 2003, four miles south of Bristol that was
witnesses by his entire family. The object was first observed
an estimated altitude of 6,500 feet at 7:45 PM. Kim writes, "My
son and myself were standing in our driveway talking and we both
saw an UFO like object in the sky to our NNW." I retrieved my
binoculars, a pair of Bausch and Laumb 7 X 35 mm, and watched
the object for about three minutes as it both climbed and fell
in a haphazard, yet controlled manner, flying manly on its side
rather than on its bottom giving it a balloon-like appearance.
There were no appendages, openings lights or antennae visible.
It bore a great resemblance to a "torque converter" from an
automobile, yet it was thinner. The object was videotaped on a
RCA camcorder starting at about 6,000 feet and gradually
descending to about 2,000 feet. The disc maneuvers and flips in
a haphazard way. After three exciting minutes of footage the
object moved to the NNW behind trees, thus I didn't get an exit
shot of the object. The copper colored object reflected
sunlight, which is a characteristic lacking in a weather
balloon. It was either metallic or highly polished. Even in the
video, reflective qualities are apparent. I have never seen
aircraft, airborne debris, birds, etc., that exhibited such
flight characteristics. Kim a military veteran says, "I feel the
object was under intelligent control." Thanks to Kim Shaver

Editor's Note: I have reviewed the video and find it excellent.
As seen in the video, the object is disc shaped and appears to
be losing altitude as it maneuvers. The object first heads NNW
then seems to return. A balloon would need some form of
propulsion to accomplish this feat, and the object keeps it's
symmetry all during the sighting. Also, weather balloons are not
copper colored. The flight characteristics, like the roll
maneuver in the video appear like they would be difficult for a
balloon. UFOs are unidentified flying objects and the object in
the video meets this criteria. See images at:
www.GeorgeFiler.com/ Filer's Files #36 views

OHIO - CYLINDER SHAPED UFO VIDEOTAPED

FOSTORIA - George Ritter continues to videotape cylinder and
disc shaped UFOs near his home in the country. The images
indicate very large craft moving at high speeds at low altitude.
They appear too large to be insects or birds. See
www.GeorgeFiler.com/ weekly files #35 Views

ILLINOIS - GLOWING ORANGE MOVING SLICE, AND SAUCER

CHICAGO SUBURBS - The witness was driving south on I-55 at 12:25
AM, on August 6, 2003, when he saw an object in the sky that
resembled a large balloon glowing and orange in color. It began
to take the shape of an orange slice (like the fruit). The
witness states, "As I sped up to get a closer look, the object
started to move away faster than any other flying craft that
I've every seen." It became so small in such a quick amount of
time that it practically disappeared. I was able to catch up to
it around 1st Avenue, and the object was back to its original
size. Everyone was looking trying to figure out what the heck
this thing was. It was moving too quickly for me to get anywhere
near it and I lost sight of the object. NUFORC

JOLIET -- On August 17, 2003, at 1 AM, a saucer shaped object
hovered between openings in a large cluster of trees just before
Route 30 on southbound I-55. It was perhaps 50 feet above ground
level and hovered as it changed to three different shades of
red, blue, and then green. After the change to green the object
then elevated slowly about 25 feet and took off at a very sharp
angle into the sky. At this point the object was traveling at a
speed that I personally think could not be measured. Supersonic
would not do it justice, it was absolutely an incredible speed.
NUFORC

HINSDALE -- The witness was sitting on his driveway on August
19, 2003, at 4:50 AM, staring at the stars when suddenly in the
sky he saw a bright white light that was pretty high in the sky
but it was easily visible even against the dawn breaking, I
don't think it was a satellite because it was very bright and
did not stay on a continuous course, it streaked in a straight
line for about two seconds then veered sharply to the left and
disappeared. Thanks to Peter Davenport NUFORC

TEXAS - THREE DARK MYSTERIOUS OBJECTS IN THE AFTERNOON SKY

HOUSTON -- On the afternoon of Saturday, August 16, 2003, four
witnesses had a prolonged sighting of three, dark mysterious
objects in the blue skies of Southeast Houston near Pasadena.
The witness relates, "While in our backyard, my son's 10-year
old guest first drew our attention to a dark stationary dot
floating in sky at about 5:10 PM." It would sway back and forth
to show its irregular shape. As it swayed, a lighter shade of
color could be seen on its body. After ten minutes, the object
slowly started drifting through the sky and a small plane flew
between the object and us. hen two more similar objects came
into view and slowly drifted to our direction, but still not
close enough to determine what they were. At about 5:40 PM, all
three objects could be seen hovering in the blue skies.

Around 10:35 PM. Another observer was in the front yard with her
Dalmatian. She reports, "While I was waiting for the dog, about
two houses down a bluish neon greenish globe flew over the top
of the tree line and vanished." It was the size of two
basketballs, maybe bigger. The object was transparent, but you
could see it clearly. It didn't have a glow to it, or leave a
shadow or light up the trees, but it passed across the tree
tops. A woman walking down the street also saw it and said it
was weird. Thanks to Peter Davenport NUFORC

COLORADO - COUPLE SEES FLYING TRIANGLE WHILE LOOKING AT MARS.

WESTMINSTER -- On August 27, 2003, a couple decided to view Mars
as it was the brightest object in the sky at ten minutes after
midnight. The observers stated, "Just as we were looking at Mars
a triangular or V-shaped flying object appeared moving towards
the northeast." It was a dark gray color, which made it visible
in the sky. It wasn't a smooth object but seemed like it had a
rough and textured exterior surface. We watched it move without
sound. The sighting lasted ten seconds, and then it disappeared.
I do not believe in UFO's, so my conclusion is that it was a
government test plane, but it seems strange they would fly it
over a populated area. Thanks to Peter Davenport NUFORC

CALIFORNIA - RED, GREEN AND BLUE STROBING LIGHTS

GRANADA HILLS - The witness's home is in the hills, looking
south over the San Fernando Valley with a 180-degree view. He
states, "I observed a source of light west towards Vandenberg
Air Force Base on August 7, 2003, at 10 PM, that was putting off
a tremendous amount of strobing light, changing from red to
green to blue and white. I viewed the object with binoculars
and saw it was magnitude-3 a disc or diamond shape. After
cruising slowly to the north, the object abruptly disappeared.
Then several helicopters flew through the area. NUFORC

MOUNT LAGUNA, SAN DIEGO - The amateur astronomers drove to the
top of Vista Point on August 28, 2003, where the old radar
installation is now pretty much abandoned. He observed, "My big
sister and I had setup my Meade Telescope at about 10 PM for a
view of Mars, when we noticed a laser shooting into the sky,
coming from atop of one of the radar towers which we kids called
big golf balls." After a few minutes the laser stopped, and
about a half mile behind it, a fuzzy red kind of smeared oval
just dropped out of the western sky about 1000 feet high. It
slowly moved to the east horizontally and stopped and then faded
away." Thanks to Peter Davenport NUFORC

MONTEREY PARK - CNN Television reported on Labor Day that three
UFOs were videotaped last night on September 1, 2003, over Los
Angeles. They were described as lights in the sky, but the tape
was not shown. Philadelphia Channel 3 News carried a short clip
of the sighting and claimed the UFO flew for several hours over
Los Angeles. Thanks to CNN . WASHINGTON - BRIGHT STAR MOVES
SLOWLY

TACOMA -- Deirdre Beck writes, " Today around 4:45 PM, I saw
directly above me a bright star looking object orbiting above
the earth quite a distance up." Mars right now does not rise
until 9 PM and Saturn can only be seen in the early morning
hours. This object was going slower than any satellite I've
ever witnessed. Several others also saw the object. Thanks to
Deirdre Beck

CANADA - METALLIC SILVER OBJECT

KELOWNA -- The witness spotted a perfectly round metallic silver
object moving across still daylight sky on August 3, 2003, at
8:30 PM. The round object was moving in an easterly direction in
the distance at a steady pace, and moved until she lost sight of
it after two minutes. She estimated it was the size of a nickel
at arm's length when it went behind the hills.

THORNHILL, TERRACE, BC -- On August 24, 2003, the witness saw a
bright, white colored object traveling southeast at 10:02 PM. It
got bright over Thornhill before getting less bright towards
Terrace. It looked really strange and was 10 to 30 meters in
diameter and did not make any sound.

KIMBERLEY -- The witness was visiting family on August 26, 2003,
near the Cominco Mine when they notices a jet airliner going
overhead at 11:05 PM, higher there was a shooting star. She
says, "Twenty seconds later there was another flash, then
another." They both stood wondering if this may have been
another jet, but the flashing intervals were not the same as a
jet airliner. It then disappeared and then in another 25 seconds
there was another flash of light. Then, they saw a flash in
front of it like a laser light, in another fifty seconds there
was another flash of light.

VANCOUVER -- My Dad has been watching the skies during the last
week andsaw lights going east and then stopping and then
shooting straight up and disappearing. On August 26, 2003, my
friend and his four siblings saw a strange light. That same
night, my Dad called me out around 11:50 PM, to 12:35 AM, to
watch a light that shone through the clouds and was flying in a
tiny orbit. Later its course changed slightly and it got bigger
and bigger then another object joined the first. It couldn't
have been a light from earth because there was no stream of
light shining up. The sighting ended at . Thanks to Brian Vike,
HBCC UFO Research, Canadian Communicator Magazine,
hbccufo@telus.net, CANADA HBCC

CHILE - CONGRESS ACKNOWLEDGES IMPORTANCE OF UFO RESEARCH

VALPARAISO -- On August 27, 2003, Chilean parliamentarians
acknowledged the importance of UFO Research. Members of the
Defense Committee of the Chilean Chamber of Deputies analyzed
for the first time ever, information concerning the UFO
phenomenon. During its session yesterday, they heard from
representatives of the Comit=E9 de Estudio de Fenomenos Aereos
Anomalous (CEFAA) and the director of the OVNIVISION Chile
Research Organization. The session was held in the National
Congress Building and started with a presentation by Cristian
Riffo, Director of OVNIVISION. His opening words were that
"UFO," is not synonymous with "alien." "I wish to make clear
that UFO is not synonymous with aliens, Martians, or little
green men from Mars. UFO is an unknown phenomenon that cannot be
explained in conventional terms. Whether or not UFOs are alien
in origin has not been ascertained." Riffo made known cases
involving eyewitness reports by pilots and air traffic
controllers.

OVNIVISION's director asked parliamentarians to create a
multidisciplinary committee to study the phenomenon. "Its goal
would be to perform a serious and detailed study of unknown
phenomena in the skies and seas of Chile." Deputy Arturo
Cardemil, chairman of the Defense Committee, told the media that
the UFO phenomenon must be studied and that it has sometimes
disrupted the normal operation of air traffic. Translation (C)
Scott Corrales, Institute of Hispanic Ufology
www.ovnivision.net

VENEZUELA - TWO LIGHTS ABOVE CAPITAL

CARACAS -- The nearer to Mars, the more UFO reports. Last
night, Griceny Gutierrez, reported that close to the Ruperto
Lugo neighborhood, again a light was seen, that later became
two, that moved towards the Avila Mountain, as it usually does.
left a message in our machine. Thanks to: Martha Rosenthal
www.martharosenthal.com, martha@ifxnw.com.ve

UK/SCOTLAND - SILVER BALL IN APPEARED TO BE FOLLOWING AIRPLANE

GLASGOW -- At around 6 PM, on a beautiful sunny evening on
August 10, 2003, with no clouds in the sky the witness heard a
plane and looked up at it, then something not far behind caught
his eye. He lives on a flight path to Glasgow Airport so he is
use to planes flying overhead. He states, "My first though was
that it was another airplane and that it was way too close, but
on second inspection it appeared to be a silver ball following
the aircraft at the same altitude as the plane and flying maybe
a mile or two behind." I followed it until I lost sight of it.
NUFORC

UK/ENGLAND - CIRCULAR OBJECT WITH RING OF LIGHTS SEEN FLYING

SOUTHAMPTON - Two friends were sitting in their back garden at
9:35 PM, on August 24, 2003. when they both noticed a circle
shaped object traveling southwest across the sky. A series of
lights arranged in a circle was flying as fast as a normal plane
and was fairly high. It disappeared over the clouds. I thought I
could hear the drone of a distant engine although my friend said
it was silent. We watched it until it went out of view, heading
across the English Channel. NUFORC

BELGIUM - FLYING TRIANGLE

KESSEL - Witnesses report seeing a flying triangle in the sky
for five minutes on August 10, 2003, at 12:30 AM. It was faster
than any plane and had many lights. At one point, it made
contact with another object with its lights. It hovered for
about three minutes and then disappeared. Thanks to Peter
Davenport NUFORC

GERMANY - MARS CAUSES MANY UFO REPORTS

MANNHEIM - THE CHINA POST reports that Mars sparked a huge rise
in UFO sightings in Germany as Mars moved to its closest point
to Earth in 60,000 years. The number of "UFO sightings" has
soared; says researcher Werner Walte, who heads Germany's CENAP
center that investigates UFOs. Mars moved its closest to Earth
since Neanderthals walked the planet and is 34.65 million miles
away. Mars appeared red and orange. A retired German couple said
their car had been followed for about two hours by an orange UFO
only about 500 yards from them on August 13. Another caller said
that the moon had been "followed by something" for hours.
"Mars, with its fiery color, could easily fool people who are
not too well informed into believing they are witnessing the
arrival of a UFO,"
http://www.chinapost.com.tw/taiwan/detail.asp?onNews=3D1&GRP=3DD&id=3D
20281

AUSTRALIAN -- TV NEWS STATION AIRS VIDEO OF UK SAUCER

ADELAIDE -- Local mainstream morning TV news on August 18, 2003,
showed impressive daylight footage of a revolving disc that was
hovering at 300 feet. A clear close up video transmission came
in from the UK that revealed a large metallic saucer with a
light revolving around the outer edge. The commentators joked
around about it. It was aired at least four times during the
day. Impressive craft. NUFORC Note: photos can be seen at the
Linda Moulten Howe website, http://www.earthfiles.com/

NEW ZEALAND VERY LARGE CIRCLE OF WHITE LIGHT

PUKERUA BAY, WELLINGTON -- A builder and surfer was sitting on
the sofa at 8 PM, on August 24, 2003, when a UFO surrounded by a
haze flew north very fast and disappeared. The witness says, "I
went upstairs to see if I could see it from a higher position
but it was gone." The object was larger than a streetlight bulb
moving across the sky. Thanks to Peter Davenport NUFORC

HGH - THE HEALTH DISCOVERY THAT ACTUALLY REVERSES AGING

Lose weight without Dieting or Exercise! This Proven Discovery
was reported in the New England Journal of Medicine. HGH
improves your body, decreases body fat, reduces wrinkles,
improves energy, and sexual potency. My gray hair started
growing in darker and thicker. HGH Enhancer

My son, daughter and wife were suffering from allergies. They
were sneezing and had running noses. I asked my friend Graham
who is an MD and he recommended, OPC - 3 that he prescribes for
most of his patients and 62 different ailments. It's made from a
unique combination of grape seed, pine bark, bilberry, red wine,
and citrus extracts. The red wine helps you livelonger. These
OPC's are super-effective antioxidants, that build up your
immune system so, your body heals itself." My family takes it
and it cleared up our allergies. OPC-3

WHAT YOU SHOULD KNOW WHEN BUY OR SELL REAL ESTATE!
Learn how you can obtain the best real estate agent to help your
buy or sell a home. To get a free copy of this report e-mail me
at : Majorstar@aol.com

MUFON UFO JOURNAL -- For more detailed monthly investigative reports
subscribe to the MUFON JOURNAL. A MUFON membership includes the
Journal and costs only $35.00 per year. To join MUFON or to
report a UFO go to

http://www.mufon.com/

To ask questions contact MUFONHQ@aol.com or HQ@mufon.com.
Mention that I recommended you for membership. "The MUFON
Journal is now accepting qualified advertising, please call 1
(303) 932-7709 for more information."

Filer's Files is copyrighted 2003 by George A. Filer, all rights
reserved. Readers may post the COMPLETE files on their Web Sites
if they credit the Newsletter and its editor by name and list
the date of issue. These reports and comments are not
necessarily the OFFICIAL MUFON viewpoint. Send your letters to
Majorstar@aol.com. Sending mail automatically grants permission
for us to publish and use your name. Please state if you wish to
keep your name or e-mail confidential. CAUTION, MOST OF THESE
ARE INITIAL REPORTS AND REQUIRE FURTHER INVESTIGATION.


Regards,

George A. Filer
www.GeorgeFiler.com










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   Sep > Sep 2

                   Re: More Bentwaters Information - Hall

From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 21:05:02 +0000
Fwd Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 17:23:48 -0400
Subject: Re: More Bentwaters Information - Hall


>From: Georgina Bruni <georgina@easynet.co.uk>
>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 10:06:53 +0100
>Subject: Re: More Bentwaters Information

>>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
>>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 14:42:26 +0000
>>Subject: Re: More Bentwaters Information

>>>From: Nick Pope <nick@popemod.freeserve.co.uk>
>>>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>>Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 01:26:29 +0100
>>>Subject: More Bentwaters Information

>>Thanks for keeping us informed. It seems exceedingly unlikely to
>>me in the first place that Conde would be driving a police car
>>through the woods outside the base, especially on his own hook.
>>Wouldn't that be in violation of territorial law governing
>>actions off the base in British territory? Unless he wanted to
>>risk arrest, he would have at least had to obtain permission from
>>his superiors to drive a police car through the woods and to be
>>there on some kind of official duty or mission.

>Richard,

>Regarding Conde's alleged hoax, which as Nick points out, claims
>to have taken place on the taxiway inside the base, I received
>the follwing from a USAF lawyer who was on the base at the time:

>"Georgina, No, I don't remember this guy

><snip>

>If this guy had done that, we would have taken action against
>him. Not sure exactly what violation of the Uniform Code of
>Military Justice it would come under but I'd have found
>something to punish him for these actions, (the costs involved
>in deploying troops to the scene, probably violating rules
>pertaining to use of government vehicles, etc.)

>You are certainly sufficiently acquainted with the Wing Commnder
>and his staff to know General Williams would not have tolerated
>such misconduct. Whatever this guy has said he did, it would
>not, in my opinion have escaped action, if the military
>authorities knew of it at the time."

>Georgina Bruni

Georgina,

Well, that's exactly what I was thinking. I was a U.S. Air Force
enlisted man myself (a half century ago), and you just wouldn't
perpetrate a hoax or a prank on a base that caused personnel to
be activated without rapid action being taken against you. Much
less off a base in a foreign country where local laws tend to
take precedence. His story makes no sense at all, plus (as Dave
Clarke should be able to see) Conde clearly expresses hostility
toward the UFO witnesses and has some sort of chip on his
shoulder. Clearly he is a skeptic who wants to "make it not so."
Also, I have gotten to know Charles Halt fairly well, and he is
a very conscientious and accomplished officer of high integrity.


- Dick








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   Sep > Sep 2

                  Re: More Bentwaters Information - Ledger

From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 20:22:57 -0300
Fwd Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 20:39:26 -0400
Subject: Re: More Bentwaters Information - Ledger


>From: David Clarke <cd292@crazydiamonds.fsnet.co.uk>
>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 16:28:53 +0100
>Subject: Re: More Bentwaters Information

>>From: Nick Pope <nick@popemod.freeserve.co.uk>
>>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 19:18:36 +0100
>>Subject: Re: More Bentwaters Information

<snip>

>To go further and conclude that "Conde could have had absolutely
>nothing to do with the UFO sightings" sounds much like: "Don't
>bother me with the evidence, my mind's made up."


Dave and Nick,

I would think that the post by Georgina with respect to the USAF
laywer's impressions would be more to the point than back and
forthing about who remembered what.

See again below. The military - particularly airforce where
their runways and taxiways are concerned [it's just plain
dangerous] would have little tolerance for this kind of "prank".
Unautorized vehicles on taxi-ways and runways is a big deal-
 airforce or commercial. If this happened then surely there
would be a record of some court marshal proceedings or
disiplinary action against Conde.

If there be straws to clutch at then maybe Conde is a "straw
man".

Best,

Don Ledger

'From: Georgina Bruni <georgina@easynet.co.uk>
To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 10:06:53 +0100
Subject: Re: More Bentwaters Information

Regarding Conde's alleged hoax, which as Nick points out, claims
to have taken place on the taxiway inside the base, I received
the follwing from a USAF lawyer who was on the base at the time:


"Georgina, No, I don't remember this guy

<snip>

If this guy had done that, we would have taken action against
him. Not sure exactly what violation of the Uniform Code of
Military Justice it would come under but I'd have found
something to punish him for these actions, (the costs involved
in deploying troops to the scene, probably violating rules
pertaining to use of government vehicles, etc.)

You are certainly sufficiently acquainted with the Wing Commnder
and his staff to know General Williams would not have tolerated
such misconduct. Whatever this guy has said he did, it would
not, in my opinion have escaped action, if the military
authorities knew of it at the time."


Georgina Bruni'








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   Sep > Sep 2

                  Re: Private Aircraft Damage Event - Velez

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 18:49:56 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 20:42:00 -0400
Subject: Re: Private Aircraft Damage Event - Velez


>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker@earthlink.net>
>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 15:07:31 -0400
>Subject: Re: Private Aircraft Damage Event

>>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
>>Date: Tue, 09 Sept 2003
>>Subject: Re: Private Aircraft Damage Event

><snip>

>>As we speak, plans are being made to have all three of these
>>men, Jaime Maussan, the pilot, Capt. Ruano and air traffic
>>controller Kolbeck on _this_Saturday_night's_broadcast of
>>'Strange Days... Indeed'! We will be discussing the report of an
>>aircraft collision that transpired in the airspace over a major
>>'world-class' international airport (not to mention the
>>_largest_ city in the world, Mexico City) that involved a UFO.
>>(unknown)

>>It promises to be informative and riveting.

><snip>

>>I am so looking forward to this interview. Hope that all of you
>>can join us -live- via the Web next Saturday night September 6th
>>at 9 PM Eastern Standard Time at:

>>http://www.cfrb.com/

>>Let's all look into the report of a collision of a commercial
>>aircraft with a "UFO" (unknown) -together.


Hello Ray,

You wrote:

>Thanks, John, for getting into that case and giving us the
>'heads-up'.

I tried to. If memory serves... you responded to my original
post by confusing the case I was presenting with a completely
unrelated one that was an already proven hoax. You _almost_
single-handedly sent the whole thread careening off in the wrong
direction and now, here you are thanking me for "getting into
the case". (???)

Wassup? I'm confused.

Uh, thanks for the pat on the back anyhow. I think.

>Sounds exciting. I, for one, surely want to hear it.

I hope everybody does. If true... it is a case with profound
implications. Especially for anyone who travels by air. If
'UFOs' are 'loose cannons' and pose real and serious threats to
the safety of anyone flying in our friendly skies, then people
need to know about it. Don't you think? It is why I brought up
the case to begin with.

>"You know my method.

Sometimes I 'think' I have a handle on it and then you go and do
something like the aforementioned (to me or to somebody else)
and I get confused all over again.

While we're at it... do me a favor and don't use my name when
you're arguing with Dick Hall. (Or anybody else for that
matter.) You _know_ that Mr. Hall and I are friends and the only
reason you mention me is in order to needle him.

I don't much like or appreciate being 'used' that way.
Especially against one of my friends. Are you out of your mind?

That you would do something like that, is much more telling of
your character than anything Dick may have found floating around
on the Internet about you. Actually, I had ignored/ looked past
many of the things that were said about you until you 'used' me
the way that you did. Then it made me think... hey, maybe there
is something to all of it.

You end up hurting yourself and your own case when you stoop to
using such cheap tactics. I had to tell you once privately
(because you were bad-mouthing Dick Hall to me behind his back)
and now I'll tell you 'publicly':

Dick Hall is a friend of mine.

Knock off the sophomoric crap! Defend yourself if you have to,
Ray. Just don't "use" me or my name to do it. Leave me out of
it.


Thanks again. ;)

John Velez








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   Sep > Sep 3

                 About The 'Chupacabra'... Interesting Story

From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 21:27:02 EDT
Fwd Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 07:14:49 -0400
Subject: About The 'Chupacabra'... Interesting Story


Normally I'd have written off the 'Chupacabra' stories except
for two stories of a personal nature.

I ran into an old pal of mine who's a professional photographer
of some 30 years. He had this weird look on his face and told me
he'd been to our former 'Parascope' website and saw an email
I'd posted. It was on another topic but what he had to tell me
was within the realm of the cryptozoology area.

He told me he'd been living in Puerto Rico for some 5 years,
which explained why I hadn't seen him for years, and that one
night while driving to his suburban home on the outskirts of the
city he'd almost hit a 'kangaroo that flew' with his car. He
said he had no idea what it was til someone had mentioned the
'Chupacabra' and sure enough the animal he'd seen fit that
description, red eyes and all.

He stated that whatever it was cleared a span of road in one
leap at car hood level of some 30ft from roadside to roadside.
He stepped on his brakes and glanced at it and saw it's head
shape and eyes. He hadn't time to whip out his trusty camera
which surprised me since he's a Vietnam vet and always had his
camera ready when we covered news together for Gannett News
Service. He's a big chap and fears nothing but that night it
shook him up enough.

He then asked the folks in the region about the animal and what
he was told was that these animals were imported by accident
when a crate full of them was dropped by chopper in the area
near the observatory. Though he is an expert in bush tracking
even the jungle terrain of Puerto Rico caused him to think
twice. Yet he did venture in and used his military influence to
peruse the area. He says the area in question has 'critters'
even he wouldn't want to mess with ( and we grew up in bear
country! ).

He also expressed something that really made sense to me as I've
family and friends in these areas where these attacks are
reported.

He, like myself know full well that in these often impoverished
areas, the loss of a farm animal can mean disaster. Peoples of
these regions adore their livestock as we would harbor pets.
 Often many of these animals reside within a household. Only
moments of extreme challenge would lead to the butchering or
sale/trade of one. So why would someone intentionally kill one
or in some cases dozens, as a joke, knowing full well there's no
compensation.

Something shook my pal up enough to cause him to venture into
the Puerto Rican outback and he's not a fellow to shy. My theory
was these livestock were being attacked by animals flushed out
of the rapidly deforested regions of S. America. He stated his
informants told him they were experimental animals that were
supposed to have been terminated but somebody thought they would
make 'cool' pets and inadvertently fouled up and some got loose
in the wild.

Til I see one in a lab, it's all story to me, yet each story is
a piece of a puzzle.

Greg






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   Sep > Sep 3

                     Lake Charles Louisiana UFO Sighting

From: Kenny Young <ufo@fuse.net>
Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 22:21:58 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 07:24:55 -0400
Subject: Lake Charles Louisiana UFO Sighting


Source: 7KPLC-TV Channel 7, Lake Charles/Lafayette, Louisiana

http://www.kplctv.com/


Lake Area Residents Spot UFO

September 2, 2003
Reported by KPLC Staff

You've been hearing a lot about it.. The planet mars is the
closest it's been to earth in nearly 60,000 years.

And people all over the globe have been out star gazing to get a
glimpse of it.

But late last week, some in Calcasieu say they saw something
else in the sky out of the ordinary, and they were able to
capture it on home video.

Dwayne Wilks, "My daughter called and said dad come outside
there's something really weird in the sky. It was sometime after
9:00 p.m. last Thursday night. Never seen nothing like that
before in my life."

Wilks, who lives in Moss Bluff, and other residents nearby saw
something very unusual in the sky.

On Paul Bellon Road in north Moss Bluff, some residents say they
saw a very strange string of bright lights. They say it happened
in a field, just above that tall group of trees.

Wilks says, "I know there was 10 of us and all of us saw the
same thing."

Wilks' father Daniel saw it too, "There was definitely lights
out there. Now craft I couldn't say yes or no because it was
dark and I couldn't see any craft, but I did see the lights."

And the Wilks family weren't the only ones to see it, the
Bellon's who live just around the corner saw it too, and the
Calcasieu Parish Sheriff's Office says another report of it also
came in that night from Iowa.

Nobody wants to speculate because it could be anything, some
familiar with aviation suggest the lights are consistent with
aircraft landing lights.

Wilks says the people who live here say they've seen lots of
aircraft pass through the area, but nothing that resembles this,
"I been living here all my life and never seen nothing in that
field so it wasn't just some object out there.. It was high
enough off the ground. It was something in the air.. You
couldn't hear it. It was strange.. Totally strange."

The Lake Charles Regional Airport had no reports of any strange
objects that night, and they say the airport radar didn't pick
up anything.

One aviation expert says lights on aircraft are used to avoid
collisions and also for aircraft recognition.

If it was something out of this world, it at least appeared to
be complying with federal aviation regulations.

--
UFO RESEARCH
http://home.fuse.net/ufo







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   Sep > Sep 3

                No Increased Sightings In Germany Due To Mars

From: Hannes La Rue - MUFON-CES <hannes.la.rue@mufon-ces.org>
Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 03:24:29 +0100
Fwd Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 07:28:26 -0400
Subject: No Increased Sightings In Germany Due To Mars


Joint press release MUFON-CES and DEGUFO

9/3/2003

Germany: No increase in UFO sightings due to Mars

There has been no increase in UFO reports to the two German UFO
reporting centres MUFON-CES and DEGUFO due to the closeness of
the planet Mars. The group GEP had recently said that the Mars
hysteria has so far not caused more UFO sightings.

More UFO sightings were only reported by Werner Walter from the
group CENAP. On August 25, 2003, AP reported that Walter
received Mars caused UFO reports on an almost daily basis.

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/08/27/1061663855310.html

The unusual closeness of Mars stimulates people's fantasy, AP
wrote. "The only thing that Mars stimulates is the fantasy of
the press," Illobrand von Ludwiger, head of MUFON-CES, says. The
press only reported about UFO sightings that could be explained.
"Consequently, interesting UFO reports don't show up in the
press," the physicist regrets.

On August 29, 2003, dpa repeatedly portrayed the German UFO
investigator Werner Walter. According to Frank Menhorn, head of
DEGUFO, it was unusual that GEP was also mentioned. Usually
Werner Walter was almost exclusively the only source. "Walter is
known in the UFO community for identifying reported UFOs without
scrutiny," Menhorn says.

Both DEGUFO and MUFON-CES talked to UFO witnesses that rejected
Werner Walters explanations. DEGUFO spoke to two police officers
in July 2002, whose sighting was identified by Walter as a
"party balloon". One of the officers said, he was "sure that it
was something else. It was simply too fast. For me it was just a
unique experience."

MUFON-CES investigated the UFO sighting of a Berlin resident in
June. After Walter identified this UFO as a "miniature balloon",
a MUFON-CES field investigator contacted the witness. He regards
Walter's explanation as "implausible". The witness had observed
a "flat disc" that "disintegrated" over a ten minute time span.
MUFON-CES filed the case as "unidentified" -- as more than 400
other cases.

Ludwiger can imagine that the CENAP hotline indeed gets more UFO
reports, because the press predominantly reports about it. On
June 23, 2002, dpa even wrote CENAP ran "the only reporting
centre in Germany". "We feel that we are more being called by
people that have actually seen something strange," Ludwiger
says. "On ethical grounds and from the research perspective, it
is irresponsible to tell witnesses, that have seen something
unusual, they had seen something else, something that Mr. Walter
can explain them and himself," the physicist says.

Contrary to CENAP, MUFON-CES and DEGUFO state an anomaly in
earths airspace. MUFON-CES investigates this phenomenon since
1975. Since then ten reports have been published in German and
one in English (http://www.mufon-ces.org/docs/Report11-
TableofContents.pdf). The groups goal is "to raise the
discussion to a scientific level and inform colleagues about the
phenomenon."

DEGUFO, too, wants to help answer the UFO question. On September
13, 2003, the group organizes its 10th anniversary symposium.
Among Menhorn and Ludwiger, ten more lecturers will speak about
their UFO related investigations. Menhorn will recapitulate the
past decade and glimpse into the future. Ludwiger will speak
about "what science can learn from UFO observations."


Contact

DEGUFO
Frank Menhorn: fmenhorn@t-online.de
http://www.degufo.de

MUFON-CES
Hannes la Rue: hannes.la.rue@mufon-ces.org
http://www.mufon-ces.org









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   Sep > Sep 3

                Re: Private Aircraft Damage Event - Stanford

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker@earthlink.net>
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 23:20:47 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 07:31:07 -0400
Subject: Re: Private Aircraft Damage Event - Stanford


>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
>Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 18:49:56 -0400
>Subject: Re: Private Aircraft Damage Event

>>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker@earthlink.net>
>>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 15:07:31 -0400
>>Subject: Re: Private Aircraft Damage Event

>>>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
>>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
>>>Date: Tue, 09 Sept 2003
>>>Subject: Re: Private Aircraft Damage Event

>><snip>

>Knock off the sophomoric crap! Defend yourself if you have to,
>Ray. Just don't "use" me or my name to do it. Leave me out of
>it.


You are right. I really should have commented on your true
statement about a psi component in UFO events in another
context. Please accept my apology, John.

Ray Stanford

"You know my method. It is founded upon the observance of
trifles." -- Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery








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   Sep > Sep 3

                Barrie, Ontario & Penticton, British Columbia

From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO <hbccufo@telus.net>
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 22:11:30 -0700
Fwd Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 08:04:04 -0400
Subject: Barrie, Ontario & Penticton, British Columbia


Barrie, Ontario

Date:  August 31, 2003
Time:  12:30 a.m.
Mass Sighting

Tonight on September 2, 2003 I had a call from a gentleman who
lives 30 minuets northwest of Barrie, Ontario.

The witness reported that he and his wife were driving out of
Barrie on their way home and recorded the time as being 12:29
a.m./12:30 a.m. from the clock in their vehicle. The fellow's
wife was driving, he was in the passengers seat.

As they drove they, suddenly, were enveloped in a very high
intense white light coming from behind them. The husband first
thought it might have been a Ontario Provincial Police cruiser
with spot lights on. But they soon realized that it was
something very unusual due to the light growing in size around
their vehicle and surrounding area. It all took place very
quickly, in approximately five seconds.

The witness said the light was so intense that it lit up the
whole hemisphere. They said from their location on the highway
they had a beautiful view of the area and the whole sky was lit
up.

His wife looked into the outside rear mirror and saw an object,
in the sky, approaching behind them with three colored lights on
it. She reports that the lights were orange, red and green
in color. They added that the white light which engulfed
their vehicle was so bright that they had a very hard time
seeing where they were going.

There were a number of cars on the highway at the time and
everyone hit their brakes - all the car's brake lights came on.
There had to have been 10 or 12 vehicles on the road at the time
due to the Labour Day long weekend.

Just as his wife glanced into the mirror and saw the three
lights behind their car, there was an explosion of bright,
intense light and then it disappeared. The lights were gone. Not
a sound was heard throughout this whole event. The vehicle's
windows were rolled up and they were listening to music.

After the couple arrived home and started thinking about what
just took place, they wondered if an aircraft had exploded as
they tried to make sense of what they witnessed. He told me as
it was a clear night there was no lightening was around.

They saw some neighbors sitting outside, so he went over and
asked, if any of them had seen the bright light. All of the
neighbors said yes, and wondered what the heck was it. Others
who were camping around the area also witnessed it. Pilots who
were on the ground at the time, saw it. Also T.V. and radio
stations reported it and a number of area residents called in
reporting they saw this very bright light which lit up the whole
sky.

Anyway gang, there is a lot more to come of this sighting. This
is just the first of a few reports I will be making on this
event.

Thank you to the witnesses for their report.

-------------

Penticton, British Columbia

Date:  August 30, 2003
Time:  11:30 p.m.

A call came in telling me that a dentist and friend witnessed a
massive bluish colored ball of light this past Saturday night.
It was traveling from north to south down and over Okanagan Lake
and left a trail behind it for approximately 10 to 15 minutes
and the trail was still glowing in the night sky. Also the
witnesses noticed something dark in color in the center of the
blue ball of light.

Thank you to the witness for the report.


Brian Vike, Director
HBCC UFO Research
Canadian Toll Free UFO Hotline 1 866 262 1989 - Free call.
Phone/Fax 1 250 845 2189
Editor: Canadian Communicator - Paranormal Magazine
email: hbccufo@telus.net
Website: http://www3.telus.net/public/wilbur8/hbcc_ufo_research.htm








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   Sep > Sep 3

                          Open Skies, Closed Minds

From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com>
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 22:30:29 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 08:06:43 -0400
Subject: Open Skies, Closed Minds


"Open Skies, Closed Minds" by Nick Pope
review by Mac Tonnies

Former Ministry of Defense UFO insider Nick Pope's "Open Skies,
Closed Minds" is a brief, sensibly written book that retreads a
lot of familiar ufological turf. Don't expect mind-blowing
revelations or answers to raging conspiracy theories; if the UK
government is sitting on smoking gun evidence, Pope honestly
doesn't know about it. I enjoyed "Open Skies" for its sane,
sometimes witty, perspective. With a refreshing emphasis on UFO
activity in Britain, Pope manages to convey the microcosm of UFO
research and its effects on contemporary culture, addressing
close encounters, military intrigue, contactees and the bizarre
spectacle of crop circles while ably interweaving his own
experience and opinions into the tapestry of a modern
phenomenon.

"Open Skies'" major shortcoming is the author's committment to a
"nuts and bolts" explanation for UFO visitation. Pope makes no
secret of his extraterrestrial bias - in fact, he goes so far as
to interpret UFO activity as a possible military threat to
humankind (one of the final chapters is titled, tellingly,
"Earth Versus the Flying Saucers"). While I found some of Pope's
conclusions naive and credulous (especially his seeming
endorsement of the abduction research of Budd Hopkins),
newcomers to the UFO controversy could do worse than follow
Pope's journey from open-minded skeptic to impassioned advocate.


=====
>Mac Tonnies (macbot@yahoo.com)

Explore MTVI @ http://www.mactonnies.com

Posthuman Blues: http://posthumanblues.blogspot.com (daily blog)







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   Sep > Sep 3

                                Kevin Randle?

From: Erik Landahl <eriklandahl@hotmail.com>
Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 23:19:11 -0700
Fwd Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 08:09:27 -0400
Subject: Kevin Randle?


Hello List,

Has anyone heard from Kevin Randle recently, or heard news of
his whereabouts and well-being? It has been approximately 7
months since the U.S. Air Force Captain and eminent UFO
researcher said farewell to the List and left for the Iraq War
and parts unknown to do his nation's bidding.

If anyone has news to share, please do so. I am interested
because I am hoping for his safety, for his quick return to
civilian life in the U.S., and for his resumption of UFO
studies.


Thanks,

Erik Landahl







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                     Re: Taping UFOs Over Hawaii - Hatch

From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 23:35:42 -0700
Fwd Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 08:16:45 -0400
Subject: Re: Taping UFOs Over Hawaii - Hatch


>From: Vicente-Juan Ballester Olmos <ballesterolmos@yahoo.es>
>To: ufoupdates@sympatico.ca
>Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 10:47:31 +0200 (CEST)
>Subject: Taping UFOs Over Hawaii

>Hello Listmembers,

>Someone is filming a UFO over Hawaii every other day.

>Can someone let me know in which direction and time frame Mars
>appears now as seen from Pahoa Town, Hawaii? I want to check
>what the witness said to me:

>"...it has been appearing night after night in the same place,
>right after sunset over the ocean and it goes away at day break,
>North slightly to the East...".

>I guess she is shooting Mars, I would appreciate confirmation.

>Thanks and best regards,


Hello V-J:

Pahoa, HI is at about 154:57W - 19:30N. That is in the Hawaiian
time zone, 2 hours retarded from Pacific (California) time. You
didn't mention any particular date, but from context I figure
the night of 27-28 August 2003 should be close enough, given the
apparent merits of the witness.

For that nite, on 27AUG at 23:20 hours or so, Mars just came up
over the horizon at Azimuth 107:28 which would be just South of
due East.

40 minutes later at midnight (0000h 28AUG) I see it at Azm
111:29 with 10 1/2 degrees of elevation over the horizon. This
goes on until around 0400 hrs when AZM = 160:31, just East of
due South and about as high as Mars got that night; 52-53
degrees above the SSE horizon.

By 0800 hrs, past dawn, I find Mars (unless I screwed something
up here) at AZM = 236:20 ELEV = 31 degrees. It would be lost in
daylight by then.

This does NOT sound like the timing is right. She first sees the
object right after sunset, and it "goes away" at daybreak. I
can't make sense of here directions: " North, slightly to the
East .." Is that the direction of departure? Is the poor soul
trying to say "slightly East of North?"

I can check the other planets, but this gets really tedious.
Could your correspondent give clearer and more precise details?

I don't have to tell you what I think of night lights that
appear night after night in the same place in the sky. I'm sure
your opinions are the same.


Best wishes

- Larry Hatch







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   Sep > Sep 3

                 Sakinaw Lake, Sunshine Coast BC - 08-07-03

From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO <hbccufo@telus.net>
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 02:37:42 -0700
Fwd Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 08:20:24 -0400
Subject: Sakinaw Lake, Sunshine Coast BC - 08-07-03


Sakinaw Lake, Sunshine Coast in British Columbia

Date: August 7th, 2003
Time: 10:15 p.m.

Dear Brian Vike,

I too saw something strange in the sky, however this was the
night of August 7th, 2003. Here's my story: My husband and I
have a summer home at Sakinaw Lake which is on the Sunshine
Coast in BC. One of my favorite things to do at night is to star
gaze from the middle of the lake. The sky is so clear there
compared to the city. Anyways, on August 7th, I took my star
gazing gear (blanket, pillow and flashlight) with me on my
peddle boat and like usual snuggled down once I got to the
middle of the lake. I usually stay out for a couple of hours and
watch the shooting stars before peddling back to our home. On
this night approximately 10:15 p.m. or so, I spotted what I
thought was another shooting star. It streaked across the sky
heading southward then stopped. I thought the shooting star
might burn out, but it didn't. Instead, the light split into 4
lights which formed a square (1 light in each corner). One of
the lights was brighter than the other 3; made me think it might
be bigger than the others. It stayed in the square formation for
2 to 5 seconds before it changed forms again. 2 lights stayed in
place while the other 2 lights moved slightly away, then
stopped.

The 4 lights together looked like a rectangle and stayed this
way for 1 to 2 seconds. Then all of a sudden the 2 lights that
moved to form the rectangle shot off northward, like parallel
shooting stars, while the other 2 lights only separated slightly
and remained stationary. One of the 2 lights that remained was
the bright one. I was shocked and couldn't believe what I saw. I
stayed there until 1:30 a.m. to see if the other 2 would come
back. Then I tried to memorize the location of the 2 remaining
lights before heading in, but they looked like stars amongst so
many other stars. It was useless, so I peddled back home.

I told my husband and he suggested I look up UFO sightings on
the internet. There are so many skeptics and believe me I would
have been one too, that I said I don't think I'll bother. My
husband printed a copy of your article for me to read and that's
how I read about the other sighting on July 28th, 2003 and also
why I'm emailing you.If you know or hear of any one else that
saw what I did that night, please let me know. I would
appreciate any information you can provide. Thank you!

Yours truly,
(name & personal information deleted by HBCC UFO).

I would like to thank the witness for the report.


Brian Vike, Director
HBCC UFO Research
Canadian Toll Free UFO Hotline 1 866 262 1989 - Free call.
Phone/Fax 1 250 845 2189
Editor: Canadian Communicator - Paranormal Magazine
email: hbccufo@telus.net
Website: http://www3.telus.net/public/wilbur8/hbcc_ufo_research.htm







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   Sep > Sep 3

                           The Hunt For Zero Point

From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 09:21:48 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 10:46:42 -0400
Subject: The Hunt For Zero Point


I found an interesting book the other day and I'm curious to see
if anyone else has read it. Written by Nick Cook of Jane's
Defense Weekly, it relates to the search for zero point energy
and the search for gravity control. The title is "The Hunt for
Zero Point: Inside the Classified World of Antigravity
Technology" and you can see details at:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0767906276/qid=1062589989/sr=8-4/r
ef=sr_8_4/102-9883484-9697728?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

It looks interesting, and I'm curious as to the reactions of
others.

Steve







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                     Re: Taping UFOs Over Hawaii - Groff

From: Terry Groff <terry@terrygroff.com>
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 10:23:14 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 16:32:07 -0400
Subject: Re: Taping UFOs Over Hawaii - Groff


>From: Vicente-Juan Ballester Olmos <ballesterolmos@yahoo.es>
>To: ufoupdates@sympatico.ca
>Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 10:47:31 +0200 (CEST)
>Subject: Taping UFOs Over Hawaii

>Someone is filming a UFO over Hawaii every other day.

>Can someone let me know in which direction and time frame Mars
>appears now as seen from Pahoa Town, Hawaii? I want to check
>what the witness said to me:

>"...it has been appearing night after night in the same place,
>right after sunset over the ocean and it goes away at day break,
>North slightly to the East...".

>I guess she is shooting Mars, I would appreciate confirmation.


Hi V-J,

One of the nights in question was August 28, 2003 at 4 am. Her
location is Pahoa, Hawaii which is at 19* 29' 55"N  154* 56'
56"W (Near Hilo)

If Hawaii uses DST then the info on Mars at that time and date
was (all times local)

Az: 228:24:33; Alt: 39:20:39
Rising:  Aug 27, 2003; 7:54:22 P.M.
Transit: Aug 28, 2003; 1:32:44 A.M.
Setting: Aug 28, 2003; 7:11:02 A.M.

If Hawaii is not on DST then the info is

Az: 239:03:50; Alt: 27:52:14
Rising:  Aug 27, 2003; 6:54:22 P.M.
Transit: Aug 28, 2003; 12:32:44 A.M.
Setting: Aug 28, 2003; 6:11:02 A.M.

I used two different software programs to ascertain this data
and both came up with the same data. however, I would appreciate
anyone else on this list verifying this data for accuracy.

In either event Mars was visible and very bright all night long
as it has been for quite some time now. Mars would not account
for some of the anomalous movements she describes though.

This person is sending me some of the video she has and I'll
keep everyone posted as to what I see on it.

Satellite TOPEX/POSIEDON was visible at about magnitude 3.5 and
transited the sky in about 22 minutes. It rose at 3:44AM and set
at 4:06AM


Thanks

Terry Groff







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   Sep > Sep 3

                   Re: The Hunt For Zero Point - Friedman

From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@rogers.com>
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 12:37:25 -0300
Fwd Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 16:33:45 -0400
Subject: Re: The Hunt For Zero Point - Friedman


>From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 09:21:48 -0400
>Subject: The Hunt For Zero Point

>I found an interesting book the other day and I'm curious to see
>if anyone else has read it. Written by Nick Cook of Jane's
>Defense Weekly, it relates to the search for zero point energy
>and the search for gravity control. The title is "The Hunt for
>Zero Point: Inside the Classified World of Antigravity
>Technology" and you can see details at:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0767906276/qid=1062589989/sr=8-4/r
ef=sr_8_4/102-9883484-9697728?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

>It looks interesting, and I'm curious as to the reactions of
>others.


I read it. It is worth reading. I think Nick had a hard time
distinguishing between ideas and accomplishments . That many
contracts were let to research gravity (and anti-gravity) did
not mean that anything much was accomplished.

Stan Friedman







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                 Mystery After UFO Sightings Puzzle Experts

From: Eustaquio Andrea Patounas <socex@terra.com.br>
Date: Wed,  3 Sep 2003 14:02:56 -0300
Fwd Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 16:38:43 -0400
Subject: Mystery After UFO Sightings Puzzle Experts


Source:  Aberdeen Evening Express, UK

http://www.thisisnorthscotland.co.uk/displayNode.jsp?nodeId=84106&command=displa
yContent&sourceNode=83936&contentPK=6902806

03 September 2003

Strange lights in the North-east night sky have baffled the
experts.

Sixteen lights travelling rapidly across clear skies were
spotted over two nights by a Fyvie resident.

Air traffic control bosses and aviation experts have ruled out
aircraft or satellites, because the lights were travelling too
fast to be planes or orbiting objects.

Astronomy experts say the lights could not have been "shooting
stars" because they were travelling too slowly and from
different directions.

One North-east UFO expert was at a loss to offer a
straightforward explanation and said the mysterious sightings
should be logged as genuine close encounters with unidentified
flying objects.

The high-level Fyvie flyovers first appeared on Thursday about
10.30pm and were still crossing silently overhead more than two
hours later.

They took only seconds to cross the sky, then gave a repeat
performance on Friday night and into Saturday morning.

Resident and Evening Express reporter Graham Lawther said he
spotted the first lights at 10.35pm on Thursday.

He said: "I had stepped outside for a good view of Mars, which
is closer to the earth now than it has been for thousands of
years, on what was a crystal-clear, moonless night.

"But I also saw a small white light, high in the atmosphere,
appear in the southern sky and fly extremely fast to the north.

"It was far too rapid for an aircraft. It was across the whole
sky in under 10 seconds and a plane would have taken several
minutes."

Mr Lawther saw seven identical, fast-moving pinpricks of light
between 10.35pm and 11.20pm, and six more from 12.15am-12.45am.

Three more were witnessed on the Friday night, between 10.20pm
and 10.35pm, the first heading south and two more quickly
heading north.

The lights, which appeared to be at the altitude of a high-
flying aircraft gave off a white glow.

A RAF Kinloss spokeswoman said: "We had no activity in that area
on either day."

A National Air Traffic Services spokesman said: "I have checked
with our colleagues in Aberdeen and Prestwick, which covers the
upper air space.

"There are no reports of any sightings from either night."

A spokesman for the Royal Observatory in Edinburgh said the
lights could have been satellites in high orbit.

He said large satellites were occasionally seen with the naked
eye, though never 13 in less than two hours.

He said they were almost always observed shortly before dawn or
after dusk, when sunlight reflected off their highly polished
surfaces.

Our skies are hotspot for saucers

The North-east is a global hotspot for UFO sightings.

Aberdonian Ian Taylor, who has been studying the subject for
more than 50 years, said folk travel to this region from all
over the country in the hope of a close encounter.

Lights and objects were regularly seen near Muchalls,
Portlethen, Deeside and the area north of Aberdeen, he
explained.

The ex-RAF man said it would be difficult to explain away the
sheer number of the latest phenomena in the skies above Fyvie as
aircraft, satellites or shooting stars.

"These were obviously aerial objects, either generating their
own light or reflecting light," said Mr Taylor.

"What was seen was straightforward UFO activity."

Mr Taylor said no one should jump to the conclusion that the
sightings were necessarily "craft from another planet" but said
they were certainly unexplained observations of unidentified
objects.

"The frequency of sightings up here is immense," said Mr Taylor,
who lives in Aberdeen's West End.

"If you are willing to go out and look in the evening,
particularly in the winter time, you would be able to see things
you would not believe."

Recent North-east sightings have included:

A hovering ball of light seen from Kincorth for two hours last
January.

A silent red light following a couple in their car on the A90
just south of Aberdeen in December 2002, which shot off
vertically.

Two "bright globes" spinning above Cruden Bay in October 2001,
which faded after 10 minutes.

A black wing-like object, which glowed and buzzed a couple's
home in Aboyne - and which was also seen by a man driving
between Daviot and Oldmeldrum.







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   Sep > Sep 3

                   Re: More Bentwaters Information - Bruni

From: Georgina Bruni <georgina@easynet.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 19:38:19 +0100
Fwd Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 16:49:09 -0400
Subject: Re: More Bentwaters Information - Bruni


>From: David Clarke <cd292@crazydiamonds.fsnet.co.uk>
>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 16:28:53 +0100
>Subject: Re: More Bentwaters Information - Clarke

>>From: Nick Pope <nick@popemod.freeserve.co.uk>
>>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 19:18:36 +0100
>>Subject: Re: More Bentwaters Information

In response to Dave Clarke's comments:

>Nick,
>Are these people who are certain Conde was not on duty relying
>upon contemporary written evidence, or simply their memory? If
>the latter is the case, I submit these "strong indicators" are
>more like straw-men.

It's got little to do with relying on contemporary written
evidence or who remembers what, it's a case of examining the
facts. Add to this Conde's own written testimony to me, and you
can see that there is no evidence whatsoever to place Conde in
the picture.

>This is clutching at straws, it is what you *want* to believe
>because anything less would turn the version of events you have
>come to accept on its head. As Kevin says, there is as much
>evidence to suggest he was there as there is to suggest he
>wasn't.

This is a nonsense statement and anybody believing that Conde's
alleged hoax was responsible is guilty of clutching at straws!
Let's be sensible here, how can you match Conde's claims with
the factual evidence? Conde himself now admits that he has no
proof, just that it's a coincidence. But in the real world
researchers don't rely on coincidence. So where does that leave
you? How can you argue the case for Conde based on coincidence?

Regarding the alert condition:

>It should not be impossible to establish whether there was an
>"alert condition" at RAF Bentwaters-Woodbridge on or about 28
>December 1980. Contemporary records should be able to establish
>this to everyone's satisfaction. Given your position in MOD I
>would have thought you would be able to access this information
>on behalf of the UFO community. If you are unable or unwilling
>to do so, what use is your much-flaunted position as Britain's
>answer to Fox Mulder?

>I understand that James Easton has independent testimony
>on this point

I think you are being bitchy here. The USAF didn't share
everything with the MOD. With regard to the situation at RAF
Bentwaters/ Woodbridge at the time, there appears to have been
no alert condition before the major incident. There was at that
time a skeleton staff (being Christmas week) and this has been
confirmed by every officer I interviewed, including the wing
commander. The so-called evidence that James Easton is referring
to is that of Greg Battram, but Battram only mentions an 'alert
exercise' which was carried out on a regular basis. All Battram
was referring to was 'patrolling the base perimeter'. But as
usual Easton will read into anything that compliments his
theories.

I have only covered the alleged alert condition briefly here,
but suffice to say that you can't take an undated photograph (as
in Larry Warren's book) as evidence, and you can't twist witness
testimony (Battram's) to suit a theory. You must stick with the
facts.


Georgina Bruni








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                   Re: More Bentwaters Information - Bruni

From: Georgina Bruni <georgina@easynet.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 19:38:23 +0100
Fwd Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 16:50:53 -0400
Subject: Re: More Bentwaters Information - Bruni


>From: Ray Boeche <rayboeche@neb.rr.com>
>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 14:59:05 -0500
>Subject: Re: More Bentwaters Information

>Georgina:

>I also appreciate your efforts at "keeping the stables clean."
>Having done much of the initial work on the Bentwaters incident,
>I'm quite familiar with the case, and its course of development
>over the years.  I would think it would be glaringly apparent to
>anyone who knows the case, that Conde's claims are nonsensical.

Dear Ray

Indeed you did some excellent work on the Rendlesham case
involving Senator Exon and others. And you and your colleague
were amongst the first people to interview Charles Halt, John
Burroughs, Adrian Bustinza and Greg Battram.

Personally, I feel for the witnesses because Conde has been
terribly insulting, suggesting they are idiots. Some people will
go to any length to get attention and it's my opinion that Conde
is one such person.


All the best

Georgina







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                   Re: More Bentwaters Information - Bruni

From: Georgina Bruni <georgina@easynet.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 19:38:26 +0100
Fwd Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 16:53:38 -0400
Subject: Re: More Bentwaters Information - Bruni


>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 21:05:02 +0000
>Subject: Re: More Bentwaters Information

>>If this guy had done that, we would have taken action against
>>him. Not sure exactly what violation of the Uniform Code of
>>Military Justice it would come under but I'd have found
>>something to punish him for these actions, (the costs involved
>>in deploying troops to the scene, probably violating rules
>>pertaining to use of government vehicles, etc.)

>Georgina,

>Well, that's exactly what I was thinking. I was a U.S. Air Force
>enlisted man myself (a half century ago), and you just wouldn't
>perpetrate a hoax or a prank on a base that caused personnel to
>be activated without rapid action being taken against you. Much
>less off a base in a foreign country where local laws tend to
>take precedence. His story makes no sense at all, plus (as Dave
>Clarke should be able to see) Conde clearly expresses hostility
>toward the UFO witnesses and has some sort of chip on his
>shoulder. Clearly he is a skeptic who wants to "make it not so."
>Also, I have gotten to know Charles Halt fairly well, and he is
>a very conscientious and accomplished officer of high integrity.

>Dick

Hi Dick

Right! Another quote from the base lawyer (name withheld)
regarding Conde's claims of using a police vehicle on the base
taxiway for his alleged prank, says it all.

"If he had and we knew, it would be just about impossible that
we would have thought this wasn't worthy of action against him."


Georgina








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   Sep > Sep 3

                     Re: The Hunt For Zero Point - Hall

From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 21:51:17 +0000
Fwd Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 19:02:09 -0400
Subject: Re: The Hunt For Zero Point - Hall


>From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@rogers.com>
>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 12:37:25 -0300
>Subject: Re: The Hunt For Zero Point

>>From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>>Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 09:21:48 -0400
>>Subject: The Hunt For Zero Point

>>I found an interesting book the other day and I'm curious to see
>>if anyone else has read it. Written by Nick Cook of Jane's
>>Defense Weekly, it relates to the search for zero point energy
>>and the search for gravity control. The title is "The Hunt for
>>Zero Point: Inside the Classified World of Antigravity
>>Technology" and you can see details at:

>http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0767906276/qid=1062589989/sr=8-4/
ref=sr_8_4/102-9883484-9697728?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

>>It looks interesting, and I'm curious as to the reactions of
>>others.

>I read it. It is worth reading. I think Nick had a hard time
>distinguishing between ideas and accomplishments . That many
>contracts were let to research gravity (and anti-gravity) did
>not mean that anything much was accomplished.


I think Stan has touched on an important point here that also
applies, in spades, to claims of "Nazi flying saucers." Sure, at
the end of WWII the Germans were very advanced in aeronautical
and propulsion technology. They had a lot of IDEAS about
circular craft, etc., but thanks to the Allied bombing raids and
general attrition of German resources, very few of them (other
than a rudimentary jet fighter - one of which got shot down by a
P-38) were ever carried beyond the blueprint stage. Yet, the
fantasy lives on that advanced saucer craft actually flew with
high performance. There is zero historical evidence to support
this fantasy.


 - Dick









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                   Re: Taping UFOs Over Hawaii - Balaskas

From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos@yorku.ca>
Date: Wed,  3 Sep 2003 18:17:37 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 19:04:17 -0400
Subject: Re: Taping UFOs Over Hawaii - Balaskas


>From: Vicente-Juan Ballester Olmos <ballesterolmos@yahoo.es>
>To: ufoupdates@sympatico.ca
>Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 10:47:31 +0200 (CEST)
>Subject: Taping UFOs Over Hawaii


>Hello Listmembers,

>Someone is filming a UFO over Hawaii every other day.

>Can someone let me know in which direction and time frame Mars
>appears now as seen from Pahoa Town, Hawaii? I want to check
>what the witness said to me:

>"...it has been appearing night after night in the same place,
>right after sunset over the ocean and it goes away at day break,
>North slightly to the East...".

>I guess she is shooting Mars, I would appreciate confirmation.



Hi Vicente-Juan!

Is this "someone" Emily Soares who lives on the Big Island of
Hawaii that posted a brief account to UFO UpDates on August 12
which makes mention of the unusual lights in the sky that she
has been filming for many years?

If it is her and she would like an expert opinion of what she is
recording with her camera, Emily could not be living at a better
place. She simply has to contact any one of the dozens of
astronomers and support staff from around the world who work at
the largest concentration of the largest and best astronomical
observatories on Mauna Kea, a tall snow capped mountain on the
Big Island of Hawaii.

Last year an astrophysicist from the University of Toronto and
now a Jesuit priest with the Vatican observatory told us of a
UFO sighting of his own from Mauna Kea. He is not the only
scientist who has seen such unidentified flying objects in the
sky and is very curious about what they may be, but he is one of
the few who will publicly talk about their UFO sightings.

As the Earth rotates, all objects in the sky such as the Sun,
Moon, planets and stars (but not rapidly moving objects such as
meteors or satellites) will rise in the east and set in the west
every day anywhere on Earth, except of course, from the polar
regions where objects move in complete circles, never rising or
setting. Since Mars is now at opposition, or opposite to the Sun
with respect to the Earth, it will rise in the east at sunset
and set in the west at sunrise as seen from most places on the
Earth, including Hawaii, Spain and southern Canada.

In any case, try to find out further details (actual directions,
motions, descriptions, etc.) about her UFO sightings and have
others carefully examine the film images obtained by your
witness before making the seemly obvious conclusion that was
Mars or some other bright celestial object. If your witness
knows where to look for Mars and has seen it together with her
uFO in the night sky, then we cannot come to a simple and likely
explanation without further details or reports from additional
independent witnesses, preferably one of the astronomers who
lives close by to the witness.


Nick Balaskas







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   Sep > Sep 3

                     Re: Open Skies, Closed Minds - Pope

From: Nick Pope <nick@popemod.freeserve.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 23:54:42 +0100
Fwd Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 19:08:40 -0400
Subject: Re: Open Skies, Closed Minds - Pope


>From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com>
>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
>Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 22:30:29 -0700 (PDT)
>Subject: Review: Open Skies, Closed Minds

>"Open Skies, Closed Minds" by Nick Pope
>review by Mac Tonnies

>Former Ministry of Defense UFO insider Nick Pope's "Open Skies,
>Closed Minds" is a brief, sensibly written book that retreads a
>lot of familiar ufological turf. Don't expect mind-blowing
>revelations or answers to raging conspiracy theories; if the UK
>government is sitting on smoking gun evidence, Pope honestly
>doesn't know about it. I enjoyed "Open Skies" for its sane,
>sometimes witty, perspective. With a refreshing emphasis on UFO
>activity in Britain, Pope manages to convey the microcosm of UFO
>research and its effects on contemporary culture, addressing
>close encounters, military intrigue, contactees and the bizarre
>spectacle of crop circles while ably interweaving his own
>experience and opinions into the tapestry of a modern
>phenomenon.

>"Open Skies'" major shortcoming is the author's committment to a
>"nuts and bolts" explanation for UFO visitation. Pope makes no
>secret of his extraterrestrial bias - in fact, he goes so far as
>to interpret UFO activity as a possible military threat to
>humankind (one of the final chapters is titled, tellingly,
>"Earth Versus the Flying Saucers"). While I found some of Pope's
>conclusions naive and credulous (especially his seeming
>endorsement of the abduction research of Budd Hopkins),
>newcomers to the UFO controversy could do worse than follow
>Pope's journey from open-minded skeptic to impassioned advocate.

Mac,

Open Skies, Closed Minds was a difficult book to write. I was
still working for the Ministry of Defence, and the book had to
be vetted by the Publications Clearance Branch. This process
wasn't without its dramas, and I was genuinely surprised by some
of the reactions within the Department. Despite having been
careful not to include any classified information, I was
nonetheless asked to take out a considerable amount of material.
Having signed the Official Secrets Act, I naturally complied
with the instruction.

The irony was that during the first Gulf War I'd worked as a
watchkeeper/briefer in the Air Force Operations Cell in the
MOD's Joint Operation Centre, and had myself been involved in
vetting books after the war. I was surprised that clearing a
book on UFOs proved quite as difficult as proved to be the case,
especially given the fact that some books on Special Forces
operations seemed less problematic. I try not to be too
conspiratorial about all this.

With the above in mind, Open Skies, Closed Minds could only ever
be an overview of the phenomenon, with some general information
about the British Government's UFO project, and details of a few
of the cases I'd investigated.

You mention my views on the alien abduction phenomenon. My views
on this have evolved somewhat since I wrote Open Skies, Closed
Minds, and I wrote a book called The Uninvited, which
concentrated solely on abductions. You may well disagree with
some of my conclusions, but I would be interested to hear your
views on this book, in due course.


Best wishes,





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   Sep > Sep 4

                   Re: Open Skies, Closed Minds - Tonnies

From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com>
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 17:55:47 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 09:34:56 -0400
Subject: Re: Open Skies, Closed Minds - Tonnies


>From: Nick Pope <nick@popemod.freeserve.co.uk>
>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 23:54:42 +0100
>Subject: Re: Open Skies, Closed Minds

>Mac,

<snip>

>You mention my views on the alien abduction phenomenon. My views
>on this have evolved somewhat since I wrote Open Skies, Closed
>Minds, and I wrote a book called The Uninvited, which
>concentrated solely on abductions. You may well disagree with
>some of my conclusions, but I would be interested to hear your
>views on this book, in due course.

Hi Nick,

I enjoyed "Open Skies" and will certainly seek out "The
Uninvited."  One of the reasons I liked "Open Skies" is because,
as you mention, you didn't resort to far-fetched conspiracy
theory; reality is usually far more interesting anyway. I can
appreciate the difficulties in writing such a book while still
employed by the goverment.

Best wishes,
Mac

=====
>Mac Tonnies (macbot@yahoo.com)

Explore MTVI @ http://www.mactonnies.com

Posthuman Blues: http://posthumanblues.blogspot.com (daily blog)







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   Sep > Sep 4

                   Re: The Hunt For Zero Point - Christol

From: Michael Christol <spachopr@bellsouth.net>
Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 22:36:23 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 09:40:01 -0400
Subject: Re: The Hunt For Zero Point - Christol


>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
>To: ufoupdates@sympatico.ca
>Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 21:51:17 +0000
>Subject: Re: The Hunt For Zero Point

>I think Stan has touched on an important point here that also
>applies, in spades, to claims of "Nazi flying saucers." Sure, at
>the end of WWII the Germans were very advanced in aeronautical
>and propulsion technology. They had a lot of IDEAS about
>circular craft, etc., but thanks to the Allied bombing raids and
>general attrition of German resources, very few of them (other
>than a rudimentary jet fighter - one of which got shot down by a
>P-38) were ever carried beyond the blueprint stage. Yet, the
>fantasy lives on that advanced saucer craft actually flew with
>high performance. There is zero historical evidence to support
>this fantasy.


Rudimentary Jet Fighter?

The ME-262 was far from a rudimentary fighter. It was just too
late in the war to change the outcome.

There is information which seems to suggest that the Thule <sp>
Society had developed a circular air foil in the late 1920's and
successfully tested it in the 1930's.


Mike







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                 Ohio Residents Report Strange Lights In Sky

From: Kenny Young <ufo@fuse.net>
Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 03:18:28 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 10:12:25 -0400
Subject: Ohio Residents Report Strange Lights In Sky


Southern Ohio Residents Report Strange Lights In Sky

Attached below is a newspaper article of interest. The Southern
Ohio locations of Proctorville and Chesapeake are not far from,
and may in fact BE in the "Buckeye M.O.A." (Military Operations
Area) where it is known that routine military jet maneuvers are
flown and flares are deployed for training purposes. However,
the description of the alleged objects, said to resemble "two
lights that appeared to circle as if chasing one another" on
Sunday and Monday nights (Aug. 31 & Sept. 1, 2003) does not
sound characteristic of flare behavior. This description may
even be similar to a report of 'circling white lights' seen in
nearby Hillsboro, Ohio several days earlier (Aug. 22).

There has been a surprising upsurge of Ohio UFO reports in the
past few days. In addition to a Hillsboro, Ohio UFO sighting and
the mysterious appearance of a nearby crop formation (for
pictures and report, see http://home.fuse.net/ufo ) that was
largely unreported, UFOs have been sighted in the Clermont
County, Ohio vicinity of Bethel, Ohio (reported to
N.U.F.O.R.C.). Separately, there have been news media reports
concerning unexplained objects videotaped from Akron and also
Canton, Ohio (witnesses located thanks to investigative efforts
by Donnie Blessing, report pending). Now this latest episode
from Proctorville and Chesapeake adds to the sighting tally.

Of possible relevance to all this would be the good visibility
of MARS (widely known thanks to mass-media blitz), but on the
surface these news reports seem to be approaching the various
allegations of UFO sightings as unrelated.

Please take note of the attached article's reference to a story
distributed by the Associated Press regarding a separate
Bainbridge, Ohio report (very near to Hillsboro). As an observer
and tracker of these reports, I can guarantee that this
information has not been available anywhere that I could
previously access. This understandably raises the question of
how many other UFO sighting incidents that organizations like
the Associated Press might circulate to some internal
distribution network which might never be made openly available.

KENNY YOUNG
UFO Research - http://home.fuse.net/ufo
Cincinnati UFO Hotline - 513-588-4548

----------

ARTICLE: "Ohio Residents Report Strange Lights in Sky"
SOURCE: The (Huntington, WVA) Herald-Dispatch
DATE: Thursday, September 4, 2003

By TIM STEPHENS - The Herald-Dispatch (Huntington, WVA)

ROME TOWNSHIP, Ohio -- Maybe it is something for the X-Files.

Residents in the Rome Township, Proctorville and Chesapeake
areas were not necessarily concerned, but were curious about the
source of odd lights in the sky Sunday and Monday nights. Two
lights appeared to circle as if chasing one another each night
over Rome Township, prompting residents to peer skyward.
Occasional blips or flashes also appeared at random, sometimes
over Ohio 7 and sometimes over Ohio 243 or to the south, toward
the Ohio River.

"They were just kind of circling around," said Roger Lambert, of
Rome Township.

Lambert by no means had thoughts of alien invasion. He was,
however, curious as to what the lights were and from where they
originated.

"I'd just like to know what they are," Lambert said.

Lambert wasn't the only one interested in the lights that
appeared, at times, to resemble spotlights reflecting off
clouds. The Lawrence County Sheriff's Department received phone
calls inquiring about the lights, as did television stations
WOWK and WSAZ.

Thunderstorms flashed both nights, but the circling lights
certainly didn't appear to be lightning.

While the lights didn't incite panic, they made for
conversation.

"I just assumed it was some spotlights or something from
somewhere on the other side of the river," J.D Warden of Rome
Township said. "I didn't think anything of it until I saw the
little flashes. I don't think they were lightning, but they
could have been. I'm not really worried about it. People see
things all the time and they usually have a reasonable
explanation."

Ohio traditionally has been a hotbed for UFO sightings, although
the southeastern part of the state isn't particularly known for
such things. The northeastern section of Ohio, particularly
around Akron, has garnered much more attention for strange
phenomena in the sky.

An event similar to this week's light show took place in the
Greasy Ridge area of Union Township just north of Chesapeake in
the early 1970s when residents reported seeing two white lights
circling together over farmland on a warm summer night.

In the mid-1970s quite a stir was created when a green ball of
fire streaked through the summer night sky over the Orchard
Drive, Holiday Drive, Scott Drive portion of Rome Township. That
fireball was explained away as an oddly colored meteor or a
piece of burning "space junk" falling toward earth.

Warden said he wouldn't be surprised if a lot of what has been
seen in the skies through the years is nothing more than
aircraft from Wright Patterson Air Force Base in Dayton, Ohio.
In mid-August, residents of Rome Township twice had their
windows rattled in separate incidents when fighter planes flying
in formation roared over head and flew southeast.

Oddly enough, the Lawrence County light display wasn't the only
recent unusual phenomena in the Buckeye State in recent days. On
Friday, then again on Saturday, Heather Rice of Bainbridge,
Ohio, spotted and filmed something she couldn't explain in the
skies of central Ohio.

"It looked like a circular thing with windows with the red and
green lights shining through," Rice said in a story distributed
by the Associated Press. "It was spinning fast."







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                  Re: More Bentwaters Information - Clarke

From: David Clarke <cd292@crazydiamonds.fsnet.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 10:13:09 +0100
Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 11:51:49 -0400
Subject: Re: More Bentwaters Information - Clarke


>From: Georgina Bruni <georgina@easynet.co.uk>
>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 19:38:26 +0100
>Subject: Re: More Bentwaters Information

>>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
>>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 21:05:02 +0000
>>Subject: Re: More Bentwaters Information

>Hi Dick

>Right! Another quote from the base lawyer (name withheld)
>regarding Conde's claims of using a police vehicle on the base
>taxiway for his alleged prank, says it all.

>"If he had and we knew, it would be just about impossible that
>we would have thought this wasn't worthy of action against him."

Georgina,

As I pointed out elsewhere, the opinions of this guy (name
withheld) are irrelevant. He didn't know Conde and wasn't aware
of the event at the time, so who cares what he thinks? How long
would he last in the witness box before m'learned friends?

The point you are all missing is: the existence of a culture of
practical joking on this large airbase at the time of the 'UFO'
incidents. Here Conde's story is backed up by the testimony of
John Burroughs who admitted on the 'Strange But True' ITV show
that he had played a number of practical jokes on his immediate
superiors before the 'first' sighting in the early hours of 26
December 1980 and as a result he was not initially believed when
he reported strange lights in the forest beyond the East Gate.

If Burroughs was playing "jokes" (what kind of jokes?) then why
wasn't Conde also playing jokes? He was there at the time.

The 'Strange But True' show was transmitted back in '96 and as
far as I'm aware Kevin Conde was unaware of Burrough's statement
when he came forward in 2001.

Yet another odd "coincidence."


Best,

Dave Clarke








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   Sep > Sep 4

                  Re: More Bentwaters Information - Clarke

From: David Clarke <cd292@crazydiamonds.fsnet.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 09:21:14 +0100
Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 11:43:55 -0400
Subject: Re: More Bentwaters Information - Clarke


>From: Georgina Bruni <georgina@easynet.co.uk>
>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 19:38:19 +0100
>Subject: Re: More Bentwaters Information

>>From: David Clarke <cd292@crazydiamonds.fsnet.co.uk>
>>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 16:28:53 +0100
>>Subject: Re: More Bentwaters Information - Clarke

>>Are these people who are certain Conde was not on duty relying
>>upon contemporary written evidence, or simply their memory? If
>>the latter is the case, I submit these "strong indicators" are
>>more like straw-men.

>It's got little to do with relying on contemporary written
>evidence or who remembers what, it's a case of examining the
>facts. Add to this Conde's own written testimony to me, and you
>can see that there is no evidence whatsoever to place Conde in
>the picture.

Hi Georgina,

But the facts show that Kevin Conde was a law enforcement
officer on the base at the time in question, there's no question
about it. That can be established by contemporaneous records.
Memories and opinions don't come into this.

What you, Dick Hall, and your "base lawyer" (name with-held)
believe or don't believe about the alleged practical joke is
completely irrelevant - any lawyer worth his or her salt would
confirm that fact.

>>This is clutching at straws, it is what you *want* to believe
>>because anything less would turn the version of events you have
>>come to accept on its head. As Kevin says, there is as much
>>evidence to suggest he was there as there is to suggest he
>>wasn't.

>This is a nonsense statement and anybody believing that Conde's
>alleged hoax was responsible is guilty of clutching at straws!
>Let's be sensible here, how can you match Conde's claims with
>the factual evidence? Conde himself now admits that he has no
>proof, just that it's a coincidence. But in the real world
>researchers don't rely on coincidence. So where does that leave
>you? How can you argue the case for Conde based on coincidence?

You may well be right that Conde's hoax was not connected with
the sightings, but I haven't seen that demonstrated beyond
reasonable doubt, and that is my point.

On the subject of "coincidence" here is what Kevin has to say
(from UFO Research List, 13 July 2003):

".I never claimed I perpetrated a hoax. I played a practical
joke, and common sense indicates to a rational and unbiased
observer that my practical joke might have caused some of the
sightings.

"At the same place in time, at the same physical locations as
some of the sightings, I drove in circles in a brand new
Plymouth Volare shining white, red, blue, green and yellow
lights into the mist while making noises over the PA system. The
witnesses, as related in the infamous Halt Memo, said they saw
white, red and blue lights.

"Now you can interpret these in two ways. You can assume that
they did not see my practical joke, which was going on at the
same time and in the same place, or you can assume that they
were actually visited by aliens.

"Now I don't believe my joke is the only thing that happened.
Like many things in life, I think a lot of little things
combined in the same place and at the same time to cause this
issue to develop a life of its own.

"One thing I can state that cannot be challenged is that I was
there, and Georgina was not. Who's the better judge of what
happened?"

>Regarding the alert condition:

>>It should not be impossible to establish whether there was an
>>"alert condition" at RAF Bentwaters-Woodbridge on or about 28
>>December 1980. Contemporary records should be able to establish
>>this to everyone's satisfaction. Given your position in MOD I
>>would have thought you would be able to access this information
>>on behalf of the UFO community. If you are unable or unwilling
>>to do so, what use is your much-flaunted position as Britain's
>>answer to Fox Mulder?

>>I understand that James Easton has independent testimony
>>on this point

>I think you are being bitchy here. The USAF didn't share
>everything with the MOD. With regard to the situation at RAF
>Bentwaters/ Woodbridge at the time, there appears to have been
>no alert condition before the major incident. There was at that
>time a skeleton staff (being Christmas week) and this has been
>confirmed by every officer I interviewed, including the wing
>commander. The so-called evidence that James Easton is referring
>to is that of Greg Battram, but Battram only mentions an 'alert
>exercise' which was carried out on a regular basis. All Battram
>was referring to was 'patrolling the base perimeter'. But as
>usual Easton will read into anything that compliments his
>theories.

But the same argument could equally be applied to you - that you
will read into anything that compliments *your* theories. This
is a case of the pot calling the kettle black.

>I have only covered the alleged alert condition briefly here,
>but suffice to say that you can't take an undated photograph (as
>in Larry Warren's book) as evidence, and you can't twist witness
>testimony (Battram's) to suit a theory. You must stick with the
>facts.

Well Georgina, let's see how you explain John Burroughs
testimony on the BBC Inside Out programme - ie that the case has
been exaggerated by Halt and Penniston and that the three men
did indeed pursue a lighthouse on the all-important first-night.

This is John Burroughs speaking - one of your "prime witnesses"
from the first night.

I can almost hear the facts being twisted as I write,

all the best,

Dave Clarke








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   Sep > Sep 4

                           Chilean Dogs Sucked Dry

From: Scott Corrales <lornis1@earthlink.net>
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 09:00:43 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 13:47:08 -0400
Subject: Chilean Dogs Sucked Dry


INEXPLICATA
The Journal of Hispanic Ufology
September 4, 2003


Source: "Cr=F3nica" (newspaper); Concepci=F3n, Chile.
Date: Thursday, September 4, 2003


Dogs Sucked Dry from Within in Lota

Did the Chupacabras move to Lota? Researchers of the unexplained
prefer to speak of an unknown biological entity which attacks
the animals in a mining community. Death has now visited the
dogs in the Enacar compound.

by Gonzalo Pizarro G.

Something unknown is prowling Lota and is slaying animals
without pity: ducks, hens and now dogs are the victims of a
macabre "entity" which has local researchers of the unexplained
beside themselves, collecting background information in order to
reach the truth as closely as possible.

"Given the rigidity of their muscles, I believe they were
subjected to such a state of agitation that it could have only
been caused by blinding fear, an unprecedented attack or act of
aggression." This is the description offered by a person who
found the bodies of four dogs--four pups and a grown bitch-
 completely exsanguinated from within, without any traces of
liquids or blood inside them.

Leonardo Torres is the president of the MUFON chapter in Lota,
an independent international agency that looks into strange
phenomena and is compiling background information on the deaths,
which have been attributed to a "being" whose names he did not
wish to speculate.

The deaths of these quadrupeds occured at a kennel located in
the vicinity of the Enacar compound and which is under the care
of a person who worked for said corporation, training their
watchdogs. This man, who did not give his name, left some pups
locked in a kennel on August 23, together with a female pit bull
to look after them.

The next day, the man was gripped by fear when he found them
lifeless. He even found one of the puppies sliced in half and
another a several meters' distance. "They were completely dry
and dehydrated. The bitch was stiff; I had to break her bones to
bury her. The strangest thing is that her jaws were clenched and
the pups were all together, as though piled up... they also had
two puncture marks, one behind the ear and another in the backs
of their necks," said the man, who has 40 years' worth of
experience in dealing with dogs and had never seen anything like
this.

The kennel's gate had been torn and everything inside was in
disarray, even a iron stove weighing several kilos was a meter
and a half away from its original position. Torres said the
Enacar compound is very large and that it possesses ideal
tunnels in which anything can hide.

He likewise remarked that there are statements from people who
claim having seen--at different times on August 22 - a
"biological entity" in the Lota Alto sector, among them a child
who even made a drawing of it.

This case coincides with others which were made known a few days
ago, such as the one in Idahue, in which six ducks were found
with punctures in their necks.

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

Translation (C) 2003 Scott Corrales
Institute of Hispanic Ufology (IHU)
Special thanks to Gloria Coluchi.







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   Sep > Sep 4

                    Re: The Hunt For Zero Point - Aldrich

From: Jan Aldrich <project1947@earthlink.net>
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 9:22:35 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 15:43:28 -0400
Subject: Re: The Hunt For Zero Point - Aldrich


>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
>To: ufoupdates@sympatico.ca
>Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 21:51:17 +0000
>Subject: Re: The Hunt For Zero Point

>>From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@rogers.com>
>>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 12:37:25 -0300
>>Subject: Re: The Hunt For Zero Point

>>>From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
>>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>>>Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 09:21:48 -0400
>>>Subject: The Hunt For Zero Point

>>>I found an interesting book the other day and I'm curious to see
>>>if anyone else has read it. Written by Nick Cook of Jane's
>>>Defense Weekly, it relates to the search for zero point energy
>>>and the search for gravity control. The title is "The Hunt for
>>>Zero Point: Inside the Classified World of Antigravity
>>>Technology" and you can see details at:

>http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0767906276/qid=1062589989/sr=8-4/
ref=sr_8_4/102-9883484-9697728?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

>>>It looks interesting, and I'm curious as to the reactions of
>>>others.

>>I read it. It is worth reading. I think Nick had a hard time
>>distinguishing between ideas and accomplishments . That many
>>contracts were let to research gravity (and anti-gravity) did
>>not mean that anything much was accomplished.

>I think Stan has touched on an important point here that also
>applies, in spades, to claims of "Nazi flying saucers." Sure, at
>the end of WWII the Germans were very advanced in aeronautical
>and propulsion technology. They had a lot of IDEAS about
>circular craft, etc., but thanks to the Allied bombing raids and
>general attrition of German resources, very few of them (other
>than a rudimentary jet fighter - one of which got shot down by a
>P-38) were ever carried beyond the blueprint stage. Yet, the
>fantasy lives on that advanced saucer craft actually flew with
>high performance. There is zero historical evidence to support
>this fantasy.


Such works are very popular and why not with the lack of
historical perspective and even greater lack of understanding of
the history of science and technology. The same people who eat
up Corso will be back for a second course.

Where is Otis T. Carr when we need him?

The Germans were indeed working on some fantastic items. General
Putt wrote a letter to Air Force intelligence that they were
10-years ahead of the Allies. When the German scientists and
engineers were brought to Wright Field they talked about
orbiting satellites, most of the engineers and scientists there
laughed. However, Vandenberg and others did not laugh and
committed to this idea in 1948.

The German leads were mostly technological and engineering,
fuels, metals, jet and rocket engines, avionics, and guidance.
As Durant told us, too many American scientists and engineers
ignored their work to our detriment. The Soviets had just as
advanced thinkers, but Stalin throwing them into prison for a
long period crippled their programs as they lost years of
research and development.

However, antigravity and other research was and still is feeling
around in the dark and running down dark alleys to dead ends.
That does not mean that a lot of ideas were not funded. Air
Force Intelligence documents in 1952 talk about the cancellation
of research into research on General Relativity.

Dick assessment of Nazi actual engineering accomplishment is
telling. Even worse, for the Nazis, was the infighting and
internal politics. In reading the Army Intelligence files on the
Horton Brothers, one discovers that the construction of Horton
fighter aircraft was curtailed and sabotaged by a plant manager
who wanted to get credit for the developments.

The Nazi nuclear weapons program led by one of the best
theoretical physicists of that generation, turned mostly a
disaster for the Germans in practical engineering and applied
terms.

I notice that nowhere is Col Seashore's Project Abstract
mentioned.

If one wants to read about various American perceptions about
UFOs and German technology one should read Loren Gross. Oh,
that's right we don't want to read any rigorous historical
works, just science fiction. Sorry. My mistake.


Jan Aldrich
Project 1947
http://www.project1947.com/
P. O. Box 391
Canterbury, CT 06331
(860) 546-9135







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   Sep > Sep 4

                Argentine Athletes Claim Seeing Strange Biped

From: Scott Corrales <lornis1@earthlink.net>
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 09:26:55 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 16:31:11 -0400
Subject: Argentine Athletes Claim Seeing Strange Biped


INEXPLICATA
The Journal of Hispanic Ufology
September 4, 2003


SOURCE:  Diario "El Tribuno" de Salta - Argentina
DATE:  4 September  2003

ROSARIO DE LA FRONTERA: TWO ATHLETES CLAIM SEEING STRANGE BIPED

** "It was enormous," they said **
** New accounts of strange hominid **
** Seen by two athletes and a gaucho in the forested area of
   Cerro Termal, east of the city**

Two men training for the biathlon last Saturday along the
forested trails of Cerro Termal and a gaucho passing through the
area on horseback, some 6 km east of Rosario de la Frontera,
claimed having run into the strange hairy beast which has been
the cause of over twenty reports since cattleman Rogelio
Martinez made a detailed and fantastic report to the authorities
in 2001.

According to the established facts, the gaucho, surnamed
Posadas, in charge of a farm owned by agribusinessman Oscar
F=E9rez, was crossing the sector --high and densely forested --in
the early hours  when we ran into a strange being standing over
two meters tall, covered in hair from head to foot, long arms
ending in sharp claws, an oval-shaped head and an enormous mouth
with menacing fangs.

Posadas did not wish to make any statement to El Tribuno, but
third parties to whom he retold his experience said that the
man, impressed by the sight, got off his mount and reached for
the shotgun on the saddle, but the hominid had vanished by the
time he looked up again.

However, biathlete Humberto Sosa, 52, who has won over 100
trophies in nationa, regional and provincial competititions, did
not hesitate to make known his extraordinary experience.

"We were training with Susana Romano, 32. At around 17:00 hours,
upon reaching a curve," he said, "we felt the crushing of
branches from the hill. We stopped to see what it could be, and
amid the foliage, we saw it briefly. It was a large animal, some
kind of ape, moving with great agility."

"Susana and I exchanged glances as though to confirm if what
we'd just seen was a product of our imaginations or real. We
remained still with our eyes riveted to the place where we'd
seen it jump and become lost in the vegetation. We tried to
listen, but everything remained silent. Suddenly, all of the
birds flew away, as though fleeing from something. And once
again, with the same speed as before, it jumped."

"It was like a giant ape. We were scared and decided to run as
quickly as possible toward the unforested area. However, that
"thing" seemed to follow us, running parallel to us some 10
meters down the slope, through the wilderness, which is
impossible for a human to do given the thickness of the
vegetation. Through the leaves and branches we could see its
enormous silhouette and every so often could hear how timber was
violently shattered, which led us to believe that the creature's
weight was tremendous."

Sosa, an electrician by trade, is a beloved and well-respected
man in this city by virtue of his career, both as an individual
 and a sportsman.

"I had heard and read people's stories about this beast. I would
laugh and I'll admit to not believing anything that was said.
What's more, I ascribed all of those tales to some sort of
collective hysteria or psychosis. However, now I have no doubt
that what people said was true, since I experienced that terror
in person."

Thin, serious and stern, the biathlete continued his story: "It
was evident that this critter was following us and I therefore
feared it would attack us. I felt fear for my companion and
asked her to run as fast as she could. I told myself that if the
situation reached the brink, I'd give my life for her. We ran
and ran, always feeling that the animal was running beside us
among the dense woods. In a given area where the vegetation
isn't quite so dense and the possibility of observing was
greater, we stopped to look around us. But the noise stopped and
the jumping shadow that had followed us had vanished. In the
distance, we could see that birds flocked together, as if
frightened by something."

Sosa added that he customarily trains at Cerro Termal in the
company of a group of sportsmen. "This time we were only two,
and it was our turn to undergo a traumatic experience. In my 30
years of covering these trails, I'd never seen anything like
it."

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

Translation (C) 2003 Scott Corrales
Institute of Hispanic Ufology (IHU
Special thanks to Gloria Coluchi







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   Sep > Sep 5

                     Re: Ray Stanford and Socorro - Hall

From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 21:17:43 +0000
Fwd Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 17:49:30 -0400
Subject: Re: Ray Stanford and Socorro - Hall


I have received a photocopy, via e-mail attachment, from Ray
Stanford of Allen Hynek's 1976 letter endorsing Ray's book on
Socorro.

Ray's transcript posted on this List was accurately quoted.

However, I continue to disagree with Ray on his interpretation
of the letter and the significance he attributes to it.

Since these matters will never be resolved by arguing on this
List, I have proposed a "cease fire" to Ray on terms that I hope
he will find agreeable.

This is not to say that I find his charges about me to be
accurate or acceptable at all.


- Dick Hall






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   Sep > Sep 5

                            Alfred's Odd Ode #380

From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 18:02:08 _0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 17:56:19 -0400
Subject: Alfred's Odd Ode #380


Alfred's Odd Ode #380 (September 4, 2003)


I guess I'm not a "good news guy" to most of you out there! But
that's my aspiration, so the irony's still square. And, yes,
there is _real_ irony that some truth that I would share is the
"self_ indulgent" poetry I compose because I DARE!

...I've got flaws and peccadilloes same as anyone who breathes,
but I'm at heart a Boy_scout, though I'm _way_ up off my knees,
so I can't stomach _little_ men who hear without an *ear*... who
are wrapped up in themselves (too much!) and ruled by what
they've feared... for they are _dead_ before me like they never
even _were_, and well beneath concerned contempt one feels for
an alley cur.

I'll cleave from that which I think _false_, be it creed or God
or man, and cleave _to_ sensibility seeming wider... understand?
 I'll eschew the *business* man condoning tricks and traps; he's
known for what he really is... a prick in heaps and stacks!

...Corporate greed is killing us, destroying all we know, and I
have felt its fingers as they've closed around my throat! They
are gain for *sake* of gain, all power and control, and they
don't hear, I think, the bells that, for them, peal and toll!
 They are _so_ last century, and embrace the sordid past! They
are loath to loose those reins that keep us _to_ our bogus
tasks!

Labeled a "believer", I'm discarded to the fringe. I'm banished
to the realms of the psychotic and unhinged. But, I have said
before, my friend, that I do _not_ believe! And that is quite
_the_ problem, really, much more than one conceives! Belief is
not the issue! It won't complicate my need! I heed a fact's
sincerity I've extracted like a seed! I don't believe duplicity
and the issue of that breed... Like...I _don't_ believe in Gods
some made to cater to their needs!

...And needs of a _minority_ I hastily would add, who practice
closed perversities content and safe and glad! I don't believe
in preachers who would speak in tongues of guile while they
robbed the fearful hapless of their money, grace, and style! I
don't believe a clergy who would prey upon our kids.
 Perversion's been the stock and trade of... psychotic invalids!

I don't believe in Presidents appointed by a court... because a
sibling in high places can provide corrupt support... I don't
believe in agencies without an over_sight which operate without
regard to decency and right. I don't believe security is found
in unwashed secrecy and I don't believe a wrong can make a
right...that's pure indecency! I don't believe best practice is
in any way conserved if it comes as a result as what we _know_
is not well served!

...I can't believe the journalist as "talking pretty head", a
mere mouth piece for complacencies the mainstream dreams
instead, and I can't believe Republicans who shan't pay down a
debt they've encouraged by the rules they' ve made to suit the
corporate set! For them and all their pleasure we have done
egregious things, the wage we're paid is terror and the dread
that it shall bring!

I can't believe the smaller men who condone a narrow view, so
hobbled by false paradigms they've lost their sense for truth.
 These generate consensus to facilitate their ends, to whatever
weak agenda they've contrived but won't contend. _Because_ they
are befuddled with the way they think things are, _because_ they
are insentient and cannot see their star, _because_ they have
but disrespect for _any_ but their own, well, one lost himself a
PARADISE he once could call his home...

And this is why I can't believe a person so malformed... he must
toady up to rich men with his honor rent and torn. ...And beg
for fickle favor without sickness in his gut, and then parrot
propaganda that just keeps us in a rut... We were built to soar
and cleave... even strike the face of God... of needs, _if_ he
practiced an offence, or used us in unjust pretense!

We are what we make _ourselves_! We stand or fall alone!
 Freedom and our self_respect is all we hope to own!

Now some would say that's _not_ good news! "We tempt God's
hand!" These cry, confused! But I maintain we're "self_aware"
and _that's_ the message better shared! We would make the
things we need from models we ourselves decreed! *Gods* have
kept our nose to stones while priest/kings know we're NOT alone,
and not of passion for _our_ gain but for themselves, and at our
_pain_!



Lehmberg@snowhill.com


It's been broadcast, recently (ZOT!), that I lost credibility
in the very ironic educational events of the last year. Upon
ardent consideration I find that I can reject that observation
handily, with all humility, and in finality. To my mind, and in
my estimation, I should have only _gained_ credibility with the
interested as a result of this experience. I can't allow it to
be thought that I agree with the off_putting assessment as
broadcast . Forgetting the lack of necessity and questionable
value of a predicted self_defense, here's why:

In the first place I showed the courage of conviction to swim
against the tide in defense of a perceived truth and even
(arguably) bit the hand that had been feeding me (so to speak)
since 1996, in the ethical pursuit of that perceived truth. The
truth (such as it is, was, and shall be) has more value to me
than the comfort and exposure of belonging to convenient venues
even _increasing_ in popularity, as SDI was and is. I would be
compelled to do the right thing (as perceived), first.

In the second, I explored that *truth* pursued under the
microscope of a consistent philosophy of some stability. As
I've written, that philosophy assigns more value to _tested_
 faith than the _untested_ variety. I made a written record
regarding the substance of those evaluations (and experiences)
to substantiate that *truth*. At the end of the evaluation I
let the chips fall where they fell. I stayed true to a
philosophy expressed consistently since 1996. I'd wager that
few (who know me at all) are _remotely_ surprised at the actions
I took last year.

On the third, I have demonstrated that I can admit error (even
when not under duress to do so!) as the ongoing evaluation
indicates it, so that the aforementioned consistency was
maintained. I've always counseled that the admission of an
error is, still, a step up (philosophically), so I could do no
less given my error here. It would seem to me that this fact,
alone, is worth the price of my re_admission to a modicum of
trust, if it is lacking. I'm not _afraid_ to make a mistake.
I'll make more. I'll own up to those, too.

Of the fourth, given the same circumstances (?) I would do all
the same things I did (say the things I said) over again because
it was in accordance with what my non-conflicted beliefs were,
at the time. I can make no apology for sincerity, earnestness,
and the authenticity of my actions (which remained ethical and
above board), only the (eventually discovered) apparent efficacy
of them. Hindsight _is_ 20/20.

Regarding a final fifth I would aspire to do the _same_ thing
again in the future if similar convictions manifested themselves
in my spirit... because I _aspire_ to bravery, conscience,
integrity, intelligence, and free thought. No reader worth a
flying joust at rolling doughnut could expect me, or themselves,
to do any less. Capable of shame, I am in no way ashamed of _
myself_. The reader, on reflection, may find little reason,
themselves, to be ashamed of me, or to speculate adversely on my
credibility.

I think the accuracy of this self_evaluation on the state of my
credibility can be measured in the guileless attitudes and
open-armed behavior of both Mr. Velez and Mr. Knapp. These two
gentlemen have welcomed me back with such warmly uncomplicated
and immediate friendliness that even I (who might have
_expected_ collegiate behavior from them given my genuine
innocence in the turbulent affair) remain astonished by it! If
these two of the most inconvenienced (per say) of my 'critics'
(per say) have little problem with my (aggregate) credibility
then perhaps the interested reader should re_evaluate any
problem _they_ might have with same.

With all respect to Mr. Furlotte, who honestly calls them as he
sees them and who I'm certain aspires to the same qualities of
bravery, conscience, integrity, intelligence, and free thought
as I do... in _this_ instance? Well _ he's got another "take"
coming. [g].



Read on.

EXPLORE "AlienViewGroup" at its HostPros URL.
http://www.alienview.net


JOHN FORD RESTORATION FUND __ John will be released eventually.
He'll need a tax free cash stake to get on his feet. Let's put
one together for him; the bigger it is __ the more attention
he gets. It could have been you. E_mail for detail.
$350.00 pledged __ $200.00 collected!



"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite.
What others see from afar, I leave far behind me."
-- Giordano Bruno, scourged by the scabrously specious
   scurrilous.





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   Sep > Sep 5

                Serpent Mound Circle Radiation and Magnetism

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker@earthlink.net>
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 00:24:01 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 18:15:25 -0400
Subject: Serpent Mound Circle Radiation and Magnetism


Were you taken in?

The radiation (as contrasts with magnetism, per se) at the 'crop
circle' site adjacent to the Serpent Mound should be considered
no mystery at all. The Serpent Mound is located within a
relatively small area (ten by twenty miles) containing the
highest surface concentration of uranium ore in Ohio! There are
highly radioactive, highly localized concentrations and
variations, and that is what was detected.

Then, the wide-eyed crop circle believer comes in with
instruments and irresponsibly reports results without
investigating the local geology, so that the media think they
have something truly mysterious on their hands!

Pardon the vernacular, but this is truly a just a CRAP circle!
(Yes, with an A.) It was an easy one for the hoaxers to make,and
even poorly done at places, (compared to what thew more
experienced hoaxers in England produce) clearly showing the
effort of human hand.

No wonder the local magnetic conditions are highly unusual at
the site. Local _geomagnetic_ aberrations occur there due to
large-scale crustal deformations associated with the 8
kilometer-in-diameter Serpent Mound Impact Structure (centered
North 39 degrees 2 minutes; West 38 degrees 4 minutes) formed
somewhat over 320 million years ago, in the southwest quadrant
of which is located the beautiful Serpent Mound (after which the
impact structure is named). The crap circle is just outside the
southwest edge of the impact structure. No wonder the local
magnetic conditions are quite unusual.

Intense magnetic anomalies, reflecting residual bedrock
magnetism are evident in the Serpent Mound area (Hildenbrand and
Kucks, 1984). In fact, the Serpent Mound is located almost
directly on top of one of the most intense residual magnetic
anomalies in the entire state. Typically, such anomalies are
caused by the intrusion of highly magnetic rocks.

And the Boys of Summer (crap circle Summer, that is) are at home
watching all the Gee Whiz! on local TV news and laughing their
asses off at people's will to believe in the seemingly
mysterious, making them feel powerful. Considering the strategic
placement of this formation where naturally high levels of
radiation and unusual geomagnetism are well know (to geologists)
to be present, one might wonder whether the hoaxers might have
known these facts and deliberately placed the formation where
wide-eyed crop circle enthusiasts would come in make fools of
themselves.

To see the beautiful Serpent Mound and information on the impact
structure, click on:

http://www.unb.ca/passc/ImpactDatabase/images/serpent-mound.htm


Ray Stanford

"You know my method. It is founded upon the observance of
trifles." -- Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery








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                          Secrecy News -- 09/05/03

From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood@fas.org>
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 12:05:42 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 18:32:40 -0400
Subject: Secrecy News -- 09/05/03


SECRECY NEWS
from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy
Volume 2003, Issue No. 73
September 5, 2003


**      BUTLER CASE GALVANIZES SCIENTISTS
**      DOE RESTRUCTURES POLYGRAPH PROGRAM
**      FOIA REQUESTS SURGED IN 2002
**      MILITARY SPACE PROGRAMS IN DISARRAY
**      VIRTUE AND ITS REWARDS


BUTLER CASE GALVANIZES SCIENTISTS

The prosecution of Thomas C. Butler, a 62 year old professor of
medicine at Texas Tech University charged with illegally
importing plague bacteria and lying about it to federal
investigators, has alarmed other scientists who say that
prosecutors are overreacting and may be jeopardizing future
research on preventing bioterrorism.

The growing consensus of opinion among leading scientists is
that the government's handling of the Butler case is far out of
proportion to the offenses that have been alleged, and that the
matter is likely to have significant unintended consequences.

The Committee on Human Rights of the National Academy of
Sciences called on Academy members to protest "the harsh
treatment of this respected colleague and the potential negative
repercussions that it may have on scientific research in his
field."

It is only the second time that the Human Rights Committee has
found it necessary to speak out on behalf of a U.S. scientist
(the other occasion was the Wen Ho Lee case).

The prosecution of Dr. Butler is "troubling," wrote Bruce
Alberts, President of the National Academy of Sciences, and
Harvey V. Fineberg, President of the Institute of Medicine, in a
separate August 15 letter to Attorney General John Ashcroft.

"Dr. Butler... is highly respected by his professional
colleagues for his scientific work," they observed, while taking
no position on his guilt or innocence.  "He is a recognized
authority on infectious diseases who has significantly
contributed to our scientific understanding of the kinds of
communicable diseases that are currently of particular concern
for the prevention of bioterrorism, such as plague."

They expressed concern that the heavy-handed prosecution of
Butler could discourage other scientists "from embarking upon or
continuing crucial bioterrorism-related scientific research."

The government's response to the scientists' concerns was not
encouraging.

On September 3, prosecutors unsealed a new indictment of Butler.
 Instead of the original 15 counts, the new indictment presented
69 counts, including mail fraud and embezzlement.

See "Charges against scientist widened" by Scott Shane,
Baltimore Sun, September 4:

http://www.sunspot.net/news/nationworld/bal-
te.butler04sep04.story

On the other hand, Dr. Butler has lately gained vigorous pro
bono legal assistance from Jonathan Turley, George Washington
University law professor, Dan Schwartz, former general counsel
at the National Security Agency, and Kevin Wolf, an expert on
export/import regulations.

If they are to have a chance of success, Butler's volunteer
legal team will need several tens of thousands of dollars to
cover expenses.  Those who would like to help support this
effort may send a check made out to "The Thomas Butler Legal
Defense Fund" to the following address:

        Daniel C. Schwartz, Esq.
        Bryan Cave LLP
        700 Thirteenth Street, N.W.
        Washington, D.C.  20005


DOE RESTRUCTURES POLYGRAPH PROGRAM

Under pressure from members of Congress, scientific critics and
others, the Department of Energy said that it will reduce its
reliance on polygraph testing to screen its employees.

"The approach I am recommending would have the effect of
reducing the number of individuals affected from well in excess
of potentially 20,000 under the current rule to approximately
4,500 under this new program," said Deputy Secretary of Energy
Kyle E. McSlarrow at a September 4 hearing.

Remarkably, however, Mr. McSlarrow also announced a separate
random polygraph testing initiative, which is "an entirely new
proposed element" of the DOE polygraph program.  Random testing
would apply in an unpredictable manner to an additional 6,000
persons not covered by mandatory polygraph screening.

This is truly novel.  It is sort of a homeopathic approach to
security policy, in which the mere specter of a polygraph test,
not even an actual test, is believed to have a deterrent effect
and to enhance security.

Under the random screening program, the affected personnel
"would be subject to random selection for polygraph examinations
at any time, at any frequency.... even though it is possible
that an individual in such a position may never actually be
selected through the random process," said Mr. McSlarrow.  In
fact, it seems doubtful that the majority of the 6,000 employees
in the proposed random testing program would ever be tested.

Although firm numbers were not immediately available, the
Department has probably not come close to testing the 20,000
persons who were nominally subject to the program since it began
a few years ago.  Consequently, the new "reduction" in the scope
of its polygraph program is more apparent than real.

See the testimony from the September 4 hearing of the Senate
Energy and Natural Resources Committee on the DOE polygraph
program here:

http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/2003_hr/index.html#poly


FOIA REQUESTS SURGED IN 2002

The number of Freedom of Information Act and Privacy Act
requests to federal government agencies reached a record high in
2002, according to a new report from the Justice Department
Office of Information and Privacy.

Among the report's findings are these:   The total number of
requests increased by seven percent over the previous year to a
new high of 2,402,938. The Department of Veterans Affairs
received the most requests (1,496,191); something called the
Inter-American Foundation received the least (one).  Agencies
invoked 142 different nondisclosure statutes to withhold
information under FOIA exemption 3.  Personal privacy was the
most frequently cited single exemption.  Over $300 million in
FOIA-related costs were reported by agencies in 2002.

See "Summary of Annual FOIA Reports for Fiscal Year 2002,"
posted here:

http://www.usdoj.gov/oip/foiapost/2003foiapost31.htm


MILITARY SPACE PROGRAMS IN DISARRAY

There are "systemic problems" in the nation's military and
national security space programs, according to a report of the
Defense Science Board that was released September 4.

Among other things, the next generation spy satellite program,
known as the Future Imagery Architecture, is "technically
flawed," the study found, and "not executable."

See "Acquisition of National Security Space Programs," Report of
the Defense Science Board/Air Force Scientific Advisory Board
Joint Task Force, May 2003:

http://www.fas.org/spp/military/dsb.pdf


VIRTUE AND ITS REWARDS

Former Congressman Stephen Horn (R-CA), who retired last
January, was an advocate of freedom of information and a
reliable ally of all those who believe in the importance of
independent oversight and accountability.

"As a Congressman, Steve Horn championed the public's Right to
Know," reminisced Rep. Carolyn Maloney (D-NY).  "He cosponsored
a bill that expanded the Freedom of Information Act to include
electronic information. He was outspoken against the abuse of
secrecy by executive agencies and the willingness of many
Congressional Committees to ignore their duties and allow such
secrecy. He forced the CIA and the Department of Defense to
release documents so that Congress could effectively perform
oversight."

In tribute to Rep. Horn, the House of Representatives voted this
week to designate the post office located at 2300 Redondo Avenue
in Signal Hill, California, as the "J. Stephen Horn Post Office
Building."

See:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/congress/2003/horn.html


_______________________________________________

Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the
Federation of American Scientists.

To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to
secrecy_news-request@lists.fas.org
with "subscribe" in the body of the message.

OR email your request to saftergood@fas.org

Secrecy News is archived at:
http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html

_______________________
Steven Aftergood
Project on Government Secrecy
Federation of American Scientists
web:    www.fas.org/sgp/index.html
email:  saftergood@fas.org
voice:  (202) 454-4691







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                            Dr Leir's Paris Visit

From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais@wanadoo.fr>
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 17:56:27 +0200
Fwd Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 18:50:05 -0400
Subject: Dr Leir's Paris Visit


To EBK and the List

Dr Roger Leir has just left Paris after a weeks visit, to
present his work on implants, and his book - which was published
in French recently (the French title is "OVNIS et implants").

All went well, with a lot of meetings, and two radio interviews.
People here knew little about his work and they were quite
interested.

I was very happy to meet him and to show him the city. Dr Leir
travels a lot. He had just made a trip to Australia.


Regards to all,

Gildas Bourdais







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                             UFO Over Burnley UK

From: Eustaquio Andrea Patounas <socex@terra.com.br>
Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 19:48:15 -0300
Fwd Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 19:54:39 -0400
Subject: UFO Over Burnley UK


Source: Burnley Today - UK

http://www.burnleytoday.co.uk/ViewArticle.aspx?SectionID=12&ArticleID=654412

Sat Sep 6 2003

Was it a bird, was it a plane or was it really a UFO?

Burnley cabbie Mr Steve Haworth and a passenger watched a
mysterious flying object suddenly appear, perform a series of
mind-boggling manoeuvres and then simply disappear without trace
above the town, early on Saturday morning.

I thought it was an aircraft at first, said Mr Haworth, of
Burton Street. Then, when I weighed up all the pros and cons, I
decided it couldnt possibly be.

The part-time taxi driver was taking a customer from his Hufling
Lane home to work in Waterfoot. They were travelling along Bacup
Road when they turned a corner and first saw the object in the
sky.

It was only 7-45 in the morning, but there wasnt a cloud in the
sky. It was beautiful and clear, he said. I immediately thought
the object was a plane, but it wasnt small, it wasnt high up and
it was moving slowly.

The silver cigar-shaped object with a small pulsating light in
the middle, stopped and hovered. Then it changed shape as it
started going forwards and backwards in a perfectly straight
line.

It did this twice before vanishing into thin air.

There was no noise and no vapour trail, added Mr Haworth. If it
had been an aircraft we would have heard it from where we were.
It did not take-off, it just simply disappeared.

This is not the first time an unidentified flying object has
been spotted in the sky above Burnley. Sightings date back to
1869 and have been reported at regular intervals throughout the
decades since.

Descriptions have varied from a round, glowing disc and a line
of bright lights, to a pulsating cigar-shaped object just like
Mr Haworth described.

He added: The whole experience only lasted three minutes. I
remember looking at the clock in the car, it was 7-45 a.m. and
by the time the object had disappeared it was 7-48 a.m..

I'm so glad I had someone with me who saw what I did, otherwise
I would have been doubting my sanity. Im just curious to know
what it was. I have considered and dismissed all the sensible
options, a UFO is the only logical explanation I can think of.

Did any other Express readers see the mysterious object last
Saturday? If you did, then call the newsdesk on 01282 426161.
05 September 2003






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             Did 1995 Circle Predict Something for September 6?

From: Loren Coleman <lcoleman@maine.rr.com>
Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2003 05:10:10 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2003 08:12:15 -0400
Subject: Did 1995 Circle Predict Something for September 6?


http://www.unknowncountry.com/news/?id=3054 26-Aug-2003

Did 1995 Crop Circle Predict Something for September 6?

Unknown Country News

Andy Thomas writes in swirlednews.com. that a 1995 crop circle,
in the form of an astronomical diagram, showed our solar system
as it will look on September 6, 2003. Last June, a crop circle
in Belgium seemed to point to August 11, as a similar one in
July of 2001 had pointed to 9/11. On August 11, a massive
terrorist plot in the mideast was thwarted, then the Eastern
blackout hit on the 12th. Many crop circle formations in the
mid-1990s showed clear astronomical diagrams, depicting
alignments of stars and planets that took place, or will take
place in the future. Will the September 6 date prove important?
We'll find out in a few days.

Some of these astronomical alignments have already occurred.
Thomas says, "It had been said by many people back in 1994 that
the so-named 'galaxy formations' were clearly star maps. Yet it
was not until 1998 before anyone took the time to actually
translate the positions of what were clearly stars and planets
into a definitive interpretation."

The 1995 crop circle design that represents what we'll see in
the sky on September 6th shows the inner planets surrounded by a
ring of small circles, which indicate the positions of Mars over
an eight-year period, the time between the date the circle was
formed and the 2003 date it illustrates. This will be shortly
after Mars comes closer to the Earth than it has been since
prehistoric times.

Using the astronomical computing program Red Shift 3, amateur
astronomer Jack Sullivan discovered that a 1994 crop circle
showed a conjunction of the planets Mars, Saturn and Jupiter
superimposed over a map of the star constellation Cetus
(represented by small standing tufts). A phase of the moon (a
small crescent) was also shown. Comparison to star maps showed
that this was an alignment which was due to take place in that
part of the sky at midnight between the 6th and 7th of April,
2000. Sullivan also studied two other 1994 formations and found
that they showed the same alignment from slightly different
perspectives.

In his book Vital Signs, Thomas writes, "On the night of 6/7th
April 2000, one of the largest solar storms of the century
erupted on the Sun, flooding the Earth's ionosphere with
particles and creating the widest sighting of the aurora
borealis across the U.K. and other parts of Europe for many
years, usually being restricted to more northern regions (hence
its more common name of 'northern lights'). I was lucky enough
to witness this effect as a strange shifting curtain of red
light above Alton Barnes.

"The solar storm, caused by an enormous flare thrown out by the
Sun as it approached its eleven-year peak of sunspot activity,
had been measured by some observatories as a G4 event on a scale
of 1 to 5<very big, threatening satellite communications and
other electronic systems."

A particularly disturbing starmap crop circle was the "Missing
Earth" formation that appeared in 1995, which shows our solar
system with the Earth missing. Some people interpret this as a
warning.

To see "starmap" crop circles:

http://www.swirlednews.com/article.asp?artID=659







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                     British Columbia Reports -09-05-03

From: Brian Vike - HBCCUFO <hbccufo@telus.net>
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 02:08:21 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2003 08:20:30 -0400
Subject: British Columbia Reports -09-05-03


Hi List

On top of the reports yesterday, I have more that came in today.
Others from Enderby, B.C. and Trail, B.C., Houston, B.C. (2
reports) and one from Kelowna, B.C. So this makes 5 reports
today, September 5, 2003.

Then on top of this, I spent a lot of time talking with a really
nice woman. She lives somewhere in the Western Provinces here in
Canada. I will fill everyone in as I get the report ready, which
will be another big one, at least for me.

Two days ago her young son woke up with a nose bleed coming from
the right nostril. The blood trickled down for sometime before
it stopped. He climbed into bed with his Mom & Dad. At 6:00 a.m.
the Mom woke up to find blood trickling down from her right
nostril, and again it took some time before it stopped bleeding.
The Mom had severe pain in the bridge of her nose, across her
eye brow and running into her eye. The inside of her nostril was
swollen badly.

This is just the tip of the iceberg on this case, with a lot
more to come. I am spending time talking with the lady right
now. She is a nurse.

There is also another report coming from Penticton, B.C. as
well. Just waiting for that info.

So lots to come, and still trying to get all of my pages working, getting there
but slowly.

Well off to bed I go, getting late and I am a little tried.

Brian

Brian Vike, Director
HBCC UFO Research
Canadian Toll Free UFO Hotline 1 866 262 1989 - Free call.
Phone/Fax 1 250 845 2189
Editor: Canadian Communicator - Paranormal Magazine
email: hbccufo@telus.net
Website: http://www3.telus.net/public/wilbur8/hbcc_ufo_research.htm





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   Sep > Sep 6

                   Re: More Bentwaters Information - Bruni

From: Georgina Bruni <georgina@easynet.co.uk>
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 12:42:36 +0100
Fwd Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2003 08:25:52 -0400
Subject: Re: More Bentwaters Information - Bruni


>From: David Clarke <cd292@crazydiamonds.fsnet.co.uk>
>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 09:21:14 +0100
>Subject: Re: More Bentwaters Information - Clarke

>>From: Georgina Bruni <georgina@easynet.co.uk>
>>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 19:38:19 +0100
>>Subject: Re: More Bentwaters Information

>>It's got little to do with relying on contemporary written
>>evidence or who remembers what, it's a case of examining the
>>facts. Add to this Conde's own written testimony to me, and you
>>can see that there is no evidence whatsoever to place Conde in
>>the picture.

>But the facts show that Kevin Conde was a law enforcement
>officer on the base at the time in question, there's no question
>about it. That can be established by contemporaneous records.
>Memories and opinions don't come into this.

I am not questioning whether he was based at Bentwaters/
Woodbridge at the time, so were thousands of others. But there
is no proof that he was on duty during the incident. Conde has
now agreed he couldn't have been on duty during the first event
involving Penniston, Burroughs and Cabansag. (see previous
posts) The event involving Halt's patrol involved numerous
witnesses and had Conde been on duty at any of the three
locations he names then he would have known that something was
going on. He admits he knew nothing about the incident until he
read about it on the web.

>You may well be right that Conde's hoax was not connected with
>the sightings, but I haven't seen that demonstrated beyond
>reasonable doubt, and that is my point.

When I was researching this case I had people contact me
claiming they may have been witnesses to the case, often with
nothing to back up their claims, and in some cases they would
have no dates etc but insist that it was too much of a
coincidence. Often their claims had more substance than Conde's.
But as a researcher I need more than coincidence or speculation
to work with. Nobody with any common sense would take Conde's
claims seriously without having something positive to back up
his story. All Conde has offered is coincidence.

>Well Georgina, let's see how you explain John Burroughs
>testimony on the BBC Inside Out programme - ie that the case
>has been exaggerated by Halt and Penniston and that the three
>men did indeed pursue a lighthouse on the all-important first-
>night.

>This is John Burroughs speaking - one of your "prime witnesses"
>from the first night.

Below is the complete transcript concerning Burroughs, taken
from the BBC Inside Out programme. Now where does he say they
pursued a lighthouse? Either the BBC sent me an edited copy
(unlikely) or you have been misinformed. In fact Burroughs
states quite strongly that it was _not_ the lighthouse.

Answer this Dave! Have you seen the tape or are you basing your
questions on James Easton's account? I understand that Easton
has now closed the case on Conde having been bombarded by posts
on his list from sceptics who disagree with Conde's claims. And
let's not forget it was Easton who promoted Conde. As I
explained to Conde recently, Easton will drop him once he has no
further use for him as a debunking tool.

Regarding comments from John Burroughs concerning Halt and
Penniston. He doesn't say they _exaggerated_ he says
_dramatized_. The last time Burroughs saw Halt and Penniston was
at the filming of the Strange But True? programme when Burroughs
had some issues with them, and it's no secret that he was upset
because Halt led the crew to the wrong site, which is mentioned
in my book. I don't have to tell you that the media like to
dramatize so it's understandable that he expresses such an
opinion. What you have to understand is that Burroughs was not
as close to the craft as Penniston. But having said that, you
can't dismiss the drawings he made of the craft for the USAF
following the incident. Also the interview he gave to American
researcher Antonio Huneeus  in 1990.

In a statement to Huneeas (part of a long interview) he says the
following.

" we walked for quite a distance, came into a clearing area,
that's when we came upon the object that we saw, the object that
all three of us saw. All three of us looked at it a little bit
differently. We got pretty close to the object, we knew it had
the feet on the ground, from there..."

Notice that he calls it an _object_ with feet on the ground. Ask
yourself how that can be compared to a police car?

Transcript from Inside Out of interview with Burroughs:

BBC Presenter talking to Burroughs on the phone: Hello Sergeant
Burroughs, now you've remained fairly quiet over the years in
contrast to Charles Halt and Jim Penniston. Why have you
remained quiet over what you saw?

Burroughs: Halt and Penniston have dramatised it and I'll stick
to my honest opinion from day one. I don't know what happened. I
do know it wasn't the lighthouse. But the blue lights coming
down out of the skies, I still have never heard of any
technology capable of doing what I saw happen out there.

BBC Presenter:  Would you accept that the blue, and possibly the
red lights could have been a vehicle that was in the vicinity, a
police car perhaps?

Burroughs: No, not. I'm not saying there wasn't anything in the
distance - off the road. But the original stuff that we saw
cannot be mistaken for a police car or anything like that. I see
jokes played. There's no possible they [Conde] could have gotten
away with that. They would have gone to jail for it.

End of transcript

I hope this puts the record straight and that you pay more
attention to the facts in future instead of twisting witness
testimony and basing your beliefs on mere coincidence


Georgina Bruni







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                     New Lies From The Brazilian Hoaxer

From: A. J. Gevaerd - Revista UFO <gevaerd@ufo.com.br>
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 08:31:36 -0300
Fwd Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2003 09:01:10 -0400
Subject: New Lies From The Brazilian Hoaxer


Dear folks,

Please, be aware about the new lies from the famous Brazilian
UFO hoaxer Urandir Fernandes de Oliveira, founder and guru of a
UFO sect called Projeto Portal (Gateway Project). This time he
is preparing a much better produced hoax, with stronger support
from a few people from his sect and more money being invested to
spread it. A website with details of the hoax has been launched
and will certainly attract and fool lots of people - again.

This fabrication is not exactly a new story. It is a "revised
and extended format" of the same hoax he perpetrated in December
2001, that was fully described by Linda Moulton Howe in
www.earthfiles.com, and strongly supported by her.

Now Urandir is claiming that  2 years after an alleged UFO crash
at his friend's farm, Tulio Alves, he has finally managed to
retrieve the wreckage of a disc.

But he is getting smarter now, as he doesn't mention ET bodies,
as in  2001. He is now saying that he and others located a small
object - an "alien device". Photos and details of the
fabrication are being spread all over the Internet, nationally
and internationally. At this very moment his PR people are
calling all TV networks in Brazil to get the story as much
publicity as possible. I anticipate that he will not succeed, as
everybody in the Brazilian press knows he is a phony. But he may
get a few naive people to help him, like he got LMH last
February. I believe that it means more damage to Ufology.

The 'device' from the crash is a complete fabrication, as
usually comes from him.

At the time of the alleged accident I immediately went to the
place with a local TV crew and absolutely nothing could be seen.
I talked extensively to many people in the area, analyzed the
entire perimeter, and nothing could be noticed. Not a single
rock boosted. The damage to trees simply "appeared" several days
after the hoaxer announced the alleged explosion, and in a
totally different location than he previously claimed. The
veterinarian who inspected the calves that were allegedly
blinded by the blast didn't find anything.

To get credibility for his story, Urandir is now claiming that
the retrieved object is radioactive. When he first invented the
story, he said for the cameras that the crash produced an
explosion just like of an atomic bomb. His friend and accomplice
in this hoax, Tulio Alves, said he saw the same thing and that
the explosion was absolutely silent. What a difference... The
local sheriff, Marcos Balsaninni, mentioned by Urandir as having
isolated the area, completely denied everything. He was at the
location and didn't even file a report, as absolutely nothing
unusual was found.

Several other contradictions appeared days after Urandir
announced the crash nationally. These are serious discrepancies
that LMH didn't bother to check out when she was in Brazil, with
a ticket paid for by him. For instance, the number of people who
allegedly saw the explosion, the size and damage produced by it,
and its site. He showed one location to a TV crew that visited
the area - a farm. To another TV crew, he showed a different
place. And so on. It is obvious that he hasn't prepared the
hoax as carefully as he should despite having two years to do
so. After the strong international support he received from
Earthfiles.com, he is now bolder in his fabrications.

It is interesting to note that the location where this "alien
atomic bomb" exploded is not more than 30 miles from the Campo
Grande International Airport, the largest in western Brazil,
which is side by side with the Campo Grande Air Field, one of
the most active in the country. It is from this air field that
the famous Pelican Squadron operates, a very specialized search
and rescue air transported team in charge of retrieving crashed
airplanes in all Brazilian Territory. Needless to say that the
squadron has never heard of any crash in Urandir's area and
doesn't believe a word he says.

So, the new story is launched and Urandir is now seeking co-
 operation from other international UFO researchers and
journalists. I have a feeling that LMH could be involved in this
thing again, but I believe that the hoaxer is trying some higher
goal. So, friends and colleagues, please be very aware. Some UFO
researchers from USA and Europe may be called to Brazil to help
Urandir to spread the story as a true, ultimate, extraordinary
UFO crash.

But it is real only in his mind and other people's money.


A. J. Gevaerd, editor

Brazilian UFO Magazine
Brazilian Center for Flying Saucer Research
www.ufo.com.br









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   Sep > Sep 6

              Re: New Lies From The Brazilian Hoaxer - Hyvonen

From: Minna Hyvonen <minna.hyvonen@kolumbus.fi>
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 17:06:40 +0300
Fwd Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2003 11:11:44 -0400
Subject: Re: New Lies From The Brazilian Hoaxer - Hyvonen


>From: A. J. Gevaerd - Revista UFO <gevaerd@ufo.com.br>
>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 08:31:36 -0300
>Subject: New Lies From The Brazilian Hoaxer

>Please, be aware about the new lies from the famous Brazilian
>UFO hoaxer Urandir Fernandes de Oliveira, founder and guru of a
>UFO sect called Projeto Portal (Gateway Project). This time he
>is preparing a much better produced hoax, with stronger support
>from a few people from his sect and more money being invested to
>spread it. A website with details of the hoax has been launched
>and will certainly attract and fool lots of people - again.

>This fabrication is not exactly a new story. It is a "revised
>and extended format" of the same hoax he perpetrated in December
>2001, that was fully described by Linda Moulton Howe in
>www.earthfiles.com, and strongly supported by her.


Hello List,

ATfter reading this I remembered a Finnish 'version', almost a
copy of this story. He was also somehow rude, but he was also
harmless.

In 1995, a 50 years old man, called KK popped up with his way
too-weird story. He died of cancer soon after, but we all
weren't of course aware of it. He had good charisma, people
liked him. He had a good sense of humour and his speeches were
good.

But he spoke frogs. He claimed, that on the year 1966 he had
found a cave. Inside it was two separate rooms. Inside the first
one was a craft with seven mummies. On the table beside the
beings were two books.

When he kept on walking (after a voice in his head told him to
do so) he found a door, which leaded to another room. In that
room there was a huge pile of gold ingots. He claimed there was
30 000 ones. According to him each of them weighted about 100
Kg's. He had tried to lift one up and had made then his
estimations about the size. He also stated, that the estimated
size was 60X30 Cm's.

KK hearded a voice saying he must choose whether he would take
the books or some gold. He was planning to take the books, but
then the voice inside his head said, that he won't need them.

After some years KK was broke and planned to steal some gold
from the cave. The cave was still there, so were the craft and
the mummies. But the another room and all the gold inside it had
vanished. He decided then, that he would never return to the
site, because it was the alien grave.

He had been wondering why the craft inside the cave and came to
the conclusion, that the aliens had had some problems on their
trip and they had no chance of returning home. So they made the
cave a grave and calmly sat down to await their death.

KK also delivered pieces of metal as 'pieces of the craft'. He
never showed anyone where the cave was.

On my calculations I came to the conlusion that, if the cave
really existed, the first odd thing in this story was the
missing gold. If there ever was a room filled with gold ingots
as he described, the missing room should be at least 1 km long.
No need to wonder about the other odd things in his story.

The saddest thing was to see, how many people bought the man's
story. Some doubted, but didn't dare to question him aloud. He
wandered all over Finland on radio, lectures, etc. and had a
free hand to continue his "mission". Lucky he wasn't offering
any suicide-story. There are still some people in Finland, who
will defend his memory by defending him against anyone, who
dares to question him.

I'll never stop wondering where do all these story-tellers pop
up from.....


Love,

Minna






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   Sep > Sep 6

                Subanthropic Principle & The Undetectability

From: Eric Wenger <wenger@uisoftware.com>
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 20:52:05 +0200
Fwd Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2003 15:39:39 -0400
Subject: Subanthropic Principle & The Undetectability


Hi all,

I've read the review " The Subanthropic Principle and the
Undetectability Conjecture" by Beatriz Gatto-Rivera, with an
immense interest.

http://www.skywatch-research.org/AstroDocs/Anthropic.pdf

It solves elegantly the "missing alien" problem and could
clarify a wide range of mysteries related to UFO and alien
abductions, at least on a pure theoritical level.

I think the argument of Undetectability can be made even
stronger if we consider that an advanced civilization would have
found communications methods that are much more efficient than
ours. Such methods would NOT leak any amount of electromagnetism
into space, thus would be undetectable for us.

Their undetectability would be more a side effect of efficiency
than a need to stay hidden for security reasons. (Which seemed
to me as the weakest point of the conjecture since one can hope
that after a certain level of development both the destructive
capabilities and the Ethical level are such that no one would
ever think to engage in any sorts of conflicts.)

I had a chance, last Tuesday, to speak briefly with Doctor Leir
at this funny Parisian dinner for UFO researchers and amateurs.

I asked him for his personal opinion about the fantasy or
reality of the Grey Hybridation program (see D Jacob, B Hopkins)

His answers puzzled me.

Not only was he convinced of the reality of this vast program
but also mentioned that other programs were going on, not the
least is a program to modify (improve?) the human genome.

Considering this in the light of Beatriz Gatto-Rivera review we
can speculate further about the Greys and our future:

Let's assume a large and advanced civilization does surrounds
us.

A - The Grey civilization is advanced and part of this larger
advanced civilization. They are looking after long term
interests of Earth biosphere and humanity. They stay secretive
for reasons outlined in the review. We may not understand or
agree about what they are doing but still be confident it will
be for the best in the long run. (I will spare you with the
usual how badly we handled our planet and all...).

B - The Grey civilization is not very advanced and not part of
this larger and wiser civilization. The fears of Jacob, Hopkins
and others (fueled by a large corpus of abductions studies) are
then very well founded. Bad luck for us.

Then two possible scenarios comes to mind

a - They  (the citizens of this hypothetical large & advanced
civilization) won't be disinterested in our fate and will try to
prevent any deceptive Grey projects of parasitical nature. If
the darkest scenario is indeed happening  - the Hybridation is
real and is the first step of a classical invasion where the
Grey ultimate goal is the total control upon a modified humanity
and earth destiny- then this undetectable civilization might
purposefully renounce its undetectability and try to help us in
a way we could eventually understand and profit from.

(That would actually give a deep and interesting meaning to the
apparently silly message of the Crabwood 2002 formation
(Beware of  ...bla bla  bla...we oppose deception) ).

b - They see the modification and takeover of a primitive
civilization by a little less primitive one as a natural
process, globally beneficial, that doesn't deserve any
intervention. We would end up assimilated in and controlled by
the Grey civilization.

c - They left long ago for better parallel universes leaving
behind only the primitive and mildly less primitive
civilizations. Which could be equivalent to b has far as our
concerns goes. But not necessarily as being very advanced could
allow them to still send us warnings - but not all the time
(Conduit closing,?)

The ironic part is wether Ba or Bb or even a totally unexpected
one are more likely to happen only depends on the Ethical and
Philosophical views of a civilization that we know nothing
about, that is presumably undetectable, and way beyond our
comprehension capabilities.

Could we be more in the dark?

Lets just hope there is some universality in Ethical concepts.

Sorry for my English,

Greetings from Paris

Eric Wenger






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   Sep > Sep 6

                    Re: The Hunt For Zero Point - Landahl

From: Erik Landahl <eriklandahl@hotmail.com>
Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 09:05:11 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2003 17:43:01 -0400
Subject: Re: The Hunt For Zero Point - Landahl


>From: Jan Aldrich <project1947@earthlink.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 9:22:35 -0400
>Subject: Re: The Hunt For Zero Point

>>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
>>To: ufoupdates@sympatico.ca
>>Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 21:51:17 +0000
>>Subject: Re: The Hunt For Zero Point

>>>From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@rogers.com>
>>>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>>Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 12:37:25 -0300
>>>Subject: Re: The Hunt For Zero Point

>>>>From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
>>>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>>>>Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 09:21:48 -0400
>>>>Subject: The Hunt For Zero Point

>>>>I found an interesting book the other day and I'm curious to see
>>>>if anyone else has read it. Written by Nick Cook of Jane's
>>>>Defense Weekly, it relates to the search for zero point energy
>>>>and the search for gravity control. The title is "The Hunt for
>>>>Zero Point: Inside the Classified World of Antigravity
>>>>Technology" and you can see details at:

>>http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0767906276/qid=1062589989/sr=8-4
/ref=sr_8_4/102-9883484-9697728?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

>>>>It looks interesting, and I'm curious as to the reactions of
>>>>others.

>>>I read it. It is worth reading. I think Nick had a hard time
>>>distinguishing between ideas and accomplishments . That many
>>>contracts were let to research gravity (and anti-gravity) did
>>>not mean that anything much was accomplished.

>>I think Stan has touched on an important point here that also
>>applies, in spades, to claims of "Nazi flying saucers." Sure, at
>>the end of WWII the Germans were very advanced in aeronautical
>>and propulsion technology. They had a lot of IDEAS about
>>circular craft, etc., but thanks to the Allied bombing raids and
>>general attrition of German resources, very few of them (other
>>than a rudimentary jet fighter - one of which got shot down by a
>>P-38) were ever carried beyond the blueprint stage. Yet, the
>>fantasy lives on that advanced saucer craft actually flew with
>>high performance. There is zero historical evidence to support
>>this fantasy.

>Such works are very popular and why not with the lack of
>historical perspective and even greater lack of understanding of
>the history of science and technology. The same people who eat
>up Corso will be back for a second course.

>Where is Otis T. Carr when we need him?

>The Germans were indeed working on some fantastic items. General
>Putt wrote a letter to Air Force intelligence that they were
>10-years ahead of the Allies. When the German scientists and
>engineers were brought to Wright Field they talked about
>orbiting satellites, most of the engineers and scientists there
>laughed. However, Vandenberg and others did not laugh and
>committed to this idea in 1948.

>The German leads were mostly technological and engineering,
>fuels, metals, jet and rocket engines, avionics, and guidance.
>As Durant told us, too many American scientists and engineers
>ignored their work to our detriment. The Soviets had just as
>advanced thinkers, but Stalin throwing them into prison for a
>long period crippled their programs as they lost years of
>research and development.

>However, antigravity and other research was and still is feeling
>around in the dark and running down dark alleys to dead ends.
>That does not mean that a lot of ideas were not funded. Air
>Force Intelligence documents in 1952 talk about the cancellation
>of research into research on General Relativity.

>Dick assessment of Nazi actual engineering accomplishment is
>telling. Even worse, for the Nazis, was the infighting and
>internal politics. In reading the Army Intelligence files on the
>Horton Brothers, one discovers that the construction of Horton
>fighter aircraft was curtailed and sabotaged by a plant manager
>who wanted to get credit for the developments.

>The Nazi nuclear weapons program led by one of the best
>theoretical physicists of that generation, turned mostly a
>disaster for the Germans in practical engineering and applied
>terms.

>I notice that nowhere is Col Seashore's Project Abstract
>mentioned.

>If one wants to read about various American perceptions about
>UFOs and German technology one should read Loren Gross. Oh,
>that's right we don't want to read any rigorous historical
>works, just science fiction. Sorry. My mistake.


Dear List,

With all due respect to Messrs. Friedman, Hall and Aldrich, I
wish they would give greater respect to the research abilities
and conservative nature of Nick Cook. He is an aviation editor
and aerospace defense consultant for Jane's Defense Weekly, the
planet's most conservative and most strongly industry-connected
aerospace periodical. Mr. Cook is extraordinarily respected
throughout the aerospace defense industry. The mere nature of
the research he participated in was enough to put his Jane's
career at risk. He is not one to traipse after a silly idea.

Anti-gravity technology may not exist. There is no proof
available to the best of our knowledge. Then again, in the late
70's and early 80's experts scoffed at the hints of "stealth",
"radar-proof" technology being practically applied to production
aircraft. Experts sometimes scoff at ideas because they buy into
the belief that they are so well-connected that if some new
technology existed they would be privy to it. If they don't know
about it then it must be fantasy. These people underestimate the
ability of the U.S. defense industry's black world to keep
research hidden.

Point is we don't know. But anti-gravity technology is not in
the same league as George Adamski's Venusians. Anti-gravity is,
however remote it may seem, a possibility grounded in advanced
physics and a possibility that has definitely been the subject
of at least sporadic research for the past century. What the
U.S. black defense industry has been doing, if anything, we
don't know. But Nick Cook has credentials that eclipse anyone on
this list when it comes to the contacts, the industry respect,
and the ability to open the door of the black defense world just
a crack.

Please do not dismiss Mr. Cook's research so lightly. You do him
and all potential readers a disservice by doing so. Read Jane's
Defense Weekly or any other Jane's publication and you will
understand the high caliber of research and factual-based
journalism that Mr. Cook is trained to reach.


Regards,

Erik Landahl








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   Sep > Sep 6

                  Sept 4 California Incident + NORAD Quote

From: Kenny Young <ufo@fuse.net>
Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 22:47:31 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2003 08:23:28 -0400
Subject: Sept 4 California Incident + NORAD Quote


I received the following E-mail report of an incident reported
near Forestville, California. It is enclosed in its entirety
with the exception of names deleted for privacy. The witness
claims the object performed an unusual maneuver that could be
characterized as artificial or controlled flight. I asked the
claimant for more information and hope to obtain a time of
sighting.

Underneath that is a separate news report regarding a NORAD
statement that bright lights seen over California on the same
date (at 8:24 p.m.) would likely be due to 'a small meteor or
debris' burning in the atmosphere.

KENNY YOUNG

=====E-mail REPORT======


On Thursday September 4, 2003, (4 names deleted for privacy, on
file) and I saw a green ball of what looked like fire in the
sky.

The location was in Forestville CA, in the eastern sky. We were
talking about what we saw to XXX's husband XXX, when we saw
another light in the sky, also in the east. This one was a white
light. It was bigger than a helicopter or an airplane. The green
fireball was big to. The planet mars was in the sky to the far
right. In comparison to size the ball was double the size to
mars.

The ball was traveling south.

The white light was moving very slow. Location was just to the
left of where the ball was, it went left, then seemed to go up
real slow, then looked like it was either moving in a west
direction or east. Then it went straight up very fast, and then
stopped, then it just disappeared.

END REPORT


=====NEWS ARTICLE=======

Lights in California sky apparently asteroid burning in
atmosphere The Associated Press Last Updated 5:58 a.m. PDT
Friday, September 5, 2003

LOS ANGELES (AP) - Bright flashes in the California sky Thursday
evening were likely a small meteor or debris from space burning
up in the Earth's atmosphere, authorities said.

Nothing hit the ground but the clear sky over parts of the state
made for a spectacular light show, said Sheryl Tankersley, a
spokeswoman for the state Office of Emergency Services.

Bluish white lights reportedly moving west to northeast were
seen at 8:24 p.m. in Palm Springs and as far north as Napa,
Amador and Merced counties, according to witnesses and the OES.

A brief North American Aerospace Defense Command investigation
concluded that the lights were a small asteroid or space debris.
Vandenberg Air Force Base reported it had not tested missiles or
made any other launch Thursday night.

Ginger Jeffries, a weathercaster at KESQ-TV in Palm Springs,
called the light "extremely bright."

"I was looking at it and going 'Mars isn't over there, what is
that?'"

"We had dust storms overhead, you couldn't see much at all in
the sky," she said. "But this was as clear and bright as
anything."


End of article







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   Sep > Sep 7

                    Re: The Hunt For Zero Point - Kaeser

From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 19:16:42 -0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2003 10:35:05 -0400
Subject: Re: The Hunt For Zero Point - Kaeser


>From: Erik Landahl <eriklandahl@hotmail.com>
>To: ufoupdates@sympatico.ca
>Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 09:05:11 -0700
>Subject: Re: The Hunt For Zero Point

<snip>

>With all due respect to Messrs. Friedman, Hall and Aldrich, I
>wish they would give greater respect to the research
>abilities and conservative nature of Nick Cook. He is an
>aviation editor and aerospace defense consultant for Jane's
>Defense Weekly, the planet's most conservative and most
>strongly industry-connected aerospace periodical. Mr. Cook is
>extraordinarily respected throughout the aerospace defense
>industry. The mere nature of the research he participated in
>was enough to put his Jane's career at risk. He is not one to
>traipse after a silly idea.

>Anti-gravity technology may not exist. There is no proof
>available to the best of our knowledge. Then again, in the
>late 70's and early 80's experts scoffed at the hints of
>"stealth", "radar-proof" technology being practically applied
>to production aircraft. Experts sometimes scoff at ideas
>because they buy into the belief that they are so
>well-connected that if some new technology existed they would
>be privy to it. If they don't know about it then it must be
>fantasy. These people underestimate the ability of the U.S.
>defense industry's black world to keep research hidden.

>Point is we don't know. But anti-gravity technology is not in
>the same league as George Adamski's Venusians. Anti-gravity
>is, however remote it may seem, a possibility grounded in
>advanced physics and a possibility that has definitely been
>the subject of at least sporadic research for the past
>century. What the U.S. black defense industry has been doing,
>if anything, we don't know. But Nick Cook has credentials
>that eclipse anyone on this list when it comes to the
>contacts, the industry respect, and the ability to open the
>door of the black defense world just a crack.

>Please do not dismiss Mr. Cook's research so lightly. You do
>him and all potential readers a disservice by doing so. Read
>Jane's Defense Weekly or any other Jane's publication and you
>will understand the high caliber of research and
>factual-based journalism that Mr. Cook is trained to reach.

Erik,

I appreciate the feedback that everyone has offered to my
original inquiry.

I would agree that Nick Cook is not likely to have followed this
subject based only on hope and faith, and in his research has
found enough material to publish this work (which I have only
just purchased and haven't had time to read as of yet). I don't
think anyone would argue that the U.S. Government, as well as
others, have had projects investigating the prospect of gravity
control, but certainly there is no known (or for the
conspiratorial among us, acknowledged) breakthroughs in that
effort.

I would mention that when I purchased the book, I did not see
the Naxi/Saucer connection that was mentioned in some posts.
However, in looking at the bibliography I see that a number of
references to German research are included. How much of the book
relies on that alleged line of research, I can't tell at this
point. As pointed out, German research was stopped cold by
Allied bombing, and perhaps we'll never know the full truth.
Unfortunately, as history fades further into the past, we find
that we have to rely more and more on the beliefs and theories
of historical researchers who can pick and chose among the
historical facts they bring to light.

I've been advised that Nick Cook does not want to be considered
a part of the UFO movement, which he views as a bottomless pit
(of sorts). But as a reporter he may have found many interesting
stories and records that he believes weave a very reasonable
story worth telling. This is, IMO, much the same dilemma that
many UFO researchers find themselves facing.


Again, thanks to all for their thoughts.

Steve






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   Sep > Sep 7

                   CI: Michael Cremo and Human Devolution

From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com>
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 16:32:44 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2003 10:37:18 -0400
Subject: CI: Michael Cremo and Human Devolution


Cydonian Imperative
9-6-03

Michael Cremo and "Human Devolution": Archaeology Just
Got Weirder

by Mac Tonnies


http://www.mactonnies.com/cydonia.html (page 41)


[Note: The following essay began as an entry in my weblog,
Posthuman Blues. --Mac]

Yesterday I received a review copy of Michael Cremo's massive
"Human Devolution: A Vedic Alternative to Darwin's Theory." With
Richard Thompson, Cremo authored the underground classic
"Forbidden Archeology," a 900-page encyclopedia of "impossible"
- but scientifically verified - archaeological finds that point
to a human presence on Earth lasting millions of years.

As I read the introduction to "Human Devolution" last night, I
realized I had read "Alien Identities," one of Thompson's
independent works, without realizing his affiliation with Cremo.
"Alien Identities" is an impressive cultural study that seeks
parallels between the modern UFO phenomenon and ancient Indian
Vedic texts. Both Cremo and Thompson are consummate scholars.
Cremo, in particular, has some impeccable "mainstream"
scientific publications to his credit. So it was disconcerting -
- and terrifically exciting -- to find that not only is he
essentially a loner in a field governed by a crippling,
monolithic paradigm, but an adherent to the philosophy of A.C.
Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada.

I promptly started reading "Quest for Enlightenment," a
hardcover compilation of Bhaktivedanta's teachings, to learn
what Cremo's "Vedic alternative" might be. As the title of his
new book makes clear, Cremo thinks Darwinian evolution is
flawed. This isn't an easy claim to support in today's academic
and scientific climate. But given the wealth of archaeological
anomalies described in his former work, it's clear that some
explanation is in order, even if it merely compliments natural
selection, as opposed to toppling it. As a fan of Darwin and
evolutionists such as Richard Dawkins, I can appreciate the
magnitude of what Cremo is trying to achieve.

The main reason I'm sympathetic to Cremo is because he's willing
to introduce entirely new disciplines that deal with such
"abstract" concepts as consciousness. Krishna cosmology views
physical reality as a devolved plane of existence which we can
occasionally break through via out-of-body experiences and
"psychic" phenomena. Rather than subscribing to a "nuts and
bolts" universe composed of matter, advocates of "Krishna
Consciousness" believe that reality is fundamentally "spiritual"
(whatever that word means; I honestly don't think humans have a
proper syntax for nonconventional states of being, let alone a
practical understanding).

If my preview of "Human Devolution" is accurate, then Cremo
thinks that we can transform ourselves into an entirely new,
enlightened order of beings. (Shades of the people in "The
Matrix" shedding their subservience to enforced virtual reality;
Vedic literature warns us that the world we think we inhabit is
a flawless illusion composed of maya.)

Will Cremo succeed in dethroning Darwinism? I don't know,
although I will concede that he's already made a dent. It's
disturbing - no, terryifing - to consider that we really might
not know who we are and that our "rational" questions, while
well-intentioned, have been somehow perverted by the fact that
our consciousness, acting on a physical level, lacks the
prerequisite dexterity.

What does all of this have to do with possible artificial
features on Mars? Simply, both Cremo's research and the work of
Mars anomalists threaten to undermine human heritage as we know
it. If the Face on Mars is human, then our evolutionary history
will likely beg revision. If our genetic origin is indeed linked
with Mars, then a skeptical yet open-minded approach to outre
theories such as Cremo's may turn out to be intellectually
invaluable. Some cosmologists, notably Frank Tipler, argue that
our mere existence is an inexplicable anomaly unless the
universe (or multiverse) was specifically constructed to enable
our presence. In light of such incendiary existential questions,
we owe it to ourselves to examine all possibilities.

-end-






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   Sep > Sep 7

              Forget Martians How Will We Handle A 'New' Truth?

From: Terry Groff <terry@terrygroff.com>
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 17:35:38 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2003 10:32:30 -0400
Subject: Forget Martians How Will We Handle A 'New' Truth?


Source: The Press-Citizen Iowa City, Iowa

http://www.press-citizen.com/opinion/cornfieldsoul/082403cornfieldsoul.htm


08-24-03

Rob Bignell
Cornfield Soul

Forget Martians; how will we handle a 'new' truth?

The Martians are coming! The Martians are coming!

Or at least Mars is getting very close to Earth - on Wednesday,
the closest it's been for almost 60,000 years. In H.G. Wells'
"The War of the Worlds," the Martians wisely selected such
proximity during their orbit to invade Earth.

A few decades later, Orson Welles adopted the novel into a radio
play that frightened a whole lot of Easterners far more than did
the recent blackout.

These days, we know Mars probably wasn't inhabited by anything
more dangerous than bacteria. The little green men of yesterday
now are the Greys, allegedly of the star system Zeta Reticuli.

And they scare the be-jeezus out of a whole lot of people, too -
 even right here in Iowa.

. . .

Just two summers ago, Ed Williams was combining his wheat near
Iowa City when he discovered a crop circle. The stems lay
clockwise with a herringbone weave. A 60-foot diameter ring
surrounded this circle.

At first, Williams and his brother, an airline pilot, thought it
was caused by the weather, perhaps micro-bursts, or strong winds
that sometimes crash planes. But 60 feet is way too large for a
microburst.

A pair of Iowa State University agronomists also examined the
formation. One argued it was man-made.

Crop circles also have been found in Iowa during the last decade
at an Arlington cornfield and a Nevada soybean field. Their
origins also remain mysterious.


Skeptics blame crop circles on elaborate hoaxes or rare natural
occurrences such as plasma forces. Undoubtedly, some are hoaxes.
Their elaborate designs, however, leaves many wondering.

At the beginning of the 21st century, polls show a majority of
Americans believe that at least some UFOs are alien spacecraft.
Though espousers of such views once were ridiculed, more than a
century of strange aircraft in the skies and motion pictures
about extraterrestrials have shifted views.

Among the earliest recorded sightings in Iowa is from a Sioux
City area farmer during March 1897. While tilling his field, an
airship hovered over him before descending. The airship tried to
capture him, but he got away.

In 1947, a few days before a flying saucer allegedly crashed in
Roswell, N.M., a bus driver in Mason City witnessed an
elliptical craft flying toward the city. Four similar-shaped
objects followed. A few minutes later, he saw 13 more craft at
an estimated 1,200 feet.

And during October 1995, an Iowa City man near town saw two
white aircraft close upon each other at a high altitude. They
then flew toward another sparkling object that approached them
at a fast speed.


I've never seen an UFO, though I've always wanted to. I briefly
attended school in a Wisconsin farm town that was the site of a
flying saucer flap in the 1970s. The neighbor girl, who was a
classmate friend, and her no-nonsense mother claim a flying
saucer almost abducted them.

As a news reporter, I once was scared crazy by a silvery object
in the southern New Mexico sky during the early 1990s. Though my
first panicked reaction was to get the heck out of there, some
irrational notion that this would be a great scoop forced me to
drive toward it. The dang thing turned out to be a blimp
monitoring drug trafficking along the Mexican border.

That also turned out to be a good story, just not the one I was
looking for.

But such is the problem with flying saucers. No one who wants to
see them ever does.


Which doesn't mean at least some UFOs aren't alien spacecraft,
the physics of interplanetary travel aside. I've talked to
plenty of sheriff's deputies and American Gothic farmers who
stand by their tales of brilliant lights, cattle mutilations and
crop circles.

One former Iowa City man even says he and his son were abducted.
While traveling through Wisconsin in 1988, John R. Salter said
he inexplicably drove onto the wrong road. His next recollection
was of standing outside his pickup truck, sur-rounded by several
Greys. The aliens escorted his son and him through the woods to
a flying saucer in a secluded clearing.

The aliens examined Salter and his son, injecting an implant
through the elder's nostril. After being returned to their
truck, the Salters watched the saucer rise above the treeline
and disappear.


Sometimes we're shaken from our routines as the circularity of
our orbits form strange conjunctions. Those moments force us to
rethink our schema of the universe.

"But who shall dwell in these worlds if they be inhabited?"
Johannes Kepler asked as pondering his theory that planets
circle the sun rather than the Earth. "Are we or they Lords of
the World? ... And how are all things made for man?"

Undoubtedly, most UFO sightings are hoaxes, dreams, panicked
reactions to test aircraft and even swamp gas. But what if some
of them, say even just a couple are something from out of this
world?

How would it change the way we view the universe and ourselves?
Would our religions crumble? Would we see our politics as the
petty bickering it so often is? Would we panic, uncertain of the
fate that awaits us as for the first time in literally hundreds
of thousands of years we become the technologically inferior
species on our planet?

Would governments transfer the realization of this to the way we
treat other nations on Earth?

Interestingly, in Wells' book, not fear but a lack of knowledge
was the invaders' undoing.

Bacteria killed the Martians.

Rob Bignell is the Press-Citizen's editorial page editor. He can
be reached at rbignellic@press-citizen.com.


Posted by Terry Groff
UFO Tools - http://terrygroff.com/ufotools








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   Sep > Sep 7

              Re: Subanthropic Principle & The Undetectability

From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22@fastmail.fm>
Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2003 16:09:39 -0800
Fwd Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2003 10:40:41 -0400
Subject: Re: Subanthropic Principle & The Undetectability


>From: Eric Wenger <wenger@uisoftware.com>
>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 20:52:05 +0200
>Subject: Subanthropic Principle & The Undetectability Conjecture

>I've read the review " The Subanthropic Principle and the
>Undetectability Conjecture" by Beatriz Gatto-Rivera, with an
>immense interest.

>http://www.skywatch-research.org/AstroDocs/Anthropic.pdf

>It solves elegantly the "missing alien" problem and could
>clarify a wide range of mysteries related to UFO and alien
>abductions, at least on a pure theoritical level.

<snip>

Eric,

Thanks for reading this post on my website as I, too, thought
that Beatriz Gatto-Rivera made some excellent points so I wrote
to her and found that she has an interest in UFOs.

She said, in reply:

"Dear Bill Hamilton,

Thanks very much for your message. As you could notice in my
article, I take very seriously the possibility that we are
visited by advanced aliens. I have never seen anything unusual
in the sky myself (I don't look much either), but among the
members of my family, my relatives, my friends and my colleagues
(that is, other scientists) there are at least six persons who
have seen UFOs doing very strange movements that cannot be done
by our planes or globes. The same has been reported in the media
several times by professional pilots of the spanish airline
IBERIA.

Therefore I think it is very important that some people, like
you, devote time and effort in the research of the alien/UFO
phenomenon. It is a pitty that the SETI researchers do not try
to interact with the UFO researchers, as I understand from your
message. I strongly suspect that this has to do with what I call
the CCS: the Crown of the Creation Syndrome."

-Bill H







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   Sep > Sep 7

                  Re: Did 1995 Circle Predict Something for

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker@earthlink.net>
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 23:16:01 -0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2003 10:47:07 -0400
Subject: Re: Did 1995 Circle Predict Something for


>From: Loren Coleman <lcoleman@maine.rr.com>
>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2003 15:51:29 -0400
>Subject: Re: Did 1995 Circle Predict Something for September 6?

>>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker@earthlink.net>
>>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 09:39:41 -0400
>>Subject: Re: Did 1995 Circle Predict Something for September 6?

>Ray Stanford writes regarding what I thought was a timely
>contribution that I lifted (with full credit, url, and citation)
>from Unknown Country...

 <snip>

Loren,

You miss my point. I think it ill-advised for anyone to pass
along that kind of foolishness without commentary or explanation
of its absurdity. I was fully aware of your 'Fortean humor' (as
you call it), but regard tongue-in-cheek as foolishness in such
cases, and potentially responsible for propagating such myth
further due to the absence of a precautionary statement.

I trust that most of us on this List recognize it for what it
really is, but there are sometimes young, inexperienced persons
who may be watching who clearly need a cautionary note lest they
fall to such diseased reasoning.

Please be aware that we are on the internet, and there are
probably, for example, relatively inexperienced children who
could come across that kind of crap and take such diseased
thinking seriously. History proves that such 'diseases' can be
highly contagious. You are knowledgeable enough that I don't
think it necessary to describe examples.

Discretion is the better part of valor.

Ray Stanford

"You know my method. It is founded upon the observance of
trifles." -- Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery








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   Sep > Sep 7

                   Re: The Hunt For Zero Point - Stanford

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker@earthlink.net>
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 23:50:29 -0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2003 10:55:30 -0400
Subject: Re: The Hunt For Zero Point - Stanford


>From: Erik Landahl <eriklandahl@hotmail.com>
>To: ufoupdates@sympatico.ca
>Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 09:05:11 -0700
>Subject: Re: The Hunt For Zero Point

>>From: Jan Aldrich <project1947@earthlink.net>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 9:22:35 -0400
>>Subject: Re: The Hunt For Zero Point

>>>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
>>>To: ufoupdates@sympatico.ca
>>>Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 21:51:17 +0000
>>>Subject: Re: The Hunt For Zero Point

>>>>From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@rogers.com>
>>>>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>>>Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 12:37:25 -0300
>>>>Subject: Re: The Hunt For Zero Point

>>>>>From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
>>>>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>>>>>Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 09:21:48 -0400
>>>>>Subject: The Hunt For Zero Point

>>>>>I found an interesting book the other day and I'm curious to see
>>>>>if anyone else has read it. Written by Nick Cook of Jane's
>>>>>Defense Weekly, it relates to the search for zero point energy
>>>>>and the search for gravity control. The title is "The Hunt for
>>>>>Zero Point: Inside the Classified World of Antigravity
>>>>>Technology" and you can see details at:

>>http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0767906276/qid=1062589989/sr=8-4
/ref=sr_8_4/102-9883484-9697728?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

<snip>

>Please do not dismiss Mr. Cook's research so lightly. You do him
>and all potential readers a disservice by doing so. Read Jane's
>Defense Weekly or any other Jane's publication and you will
>understand the high caliber of research and factual-based
>journalism that Mr. Cook is trained to reach.


Erik,

Sage commentary, indeed. Humans are highly inventive, creative
beings, and, after all, this is no longer the 20th century.
 Yet, people can be so worried about having others believe that
their 'feet are on the ground', that their heads are buried in
the sand.

Ray Stanford

"You know my method. It is founded upon the observance of
trifles." -- Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery








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   Sep > Sep 7

              Re: Subanthropic Principle & The Undetectability

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2003 00:04:09 -0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2003 10:57:57 -0400
Subject: Re: Subanthropic Principle & The Undetectability


>From: Eric Wenger <wenger@uisoftware.com>
>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 20:52:05 +0200
>Subject: Subanthropic Principle & The Undetectability Conjecture


>Hi all,

>I've read the review " The Subanthropic Principle and the
>Undetectability Conjecture" by Beatriz Gatto-Rivera, with an
>immense interest.

>http://www.skywatch-research.org/AstroDocs/Anthropic.pdf

>It solves elegantly the "missing alien" problem and could
>clarify a wide range of mysteries related to UFO and alien
>abductions, at least on a pure theoritical level.

<snip>

>Considering this in the light of Beatriz Gatto-Rivera review we
>can speculate further about the Greys and our future:

>Let's assume a large and advanced civilization does surrounds
>us.

>A - The Grey civilization is advanced and part of this larger
>advanced civilization. They are looking after long term
>interests of Earth biosphere and humanity. They stay secretive
>for reasons outlined in the review. We may not understand or
>agree about what they are doing but still be confident it will
>be for the best in the long run. (I will spare you with the
>usual how badly we handled our planet and all...).

>B - The Grey civilization is not very advanced and not part of
t>his larger and wiser civilization. The fears of Jacob, Hopkins
>and others (fueled by a large corpus of abductions studies) are
t>hen very well founded. Bad luck for us.

>Then two possible scenarios comes to mind

>a - They  (the citizens of this hypothetical large & advanced
>civilization) won't be disinterested in our fate and will try to
>prevent any deceptive Grey projects of parasitical nature. If
t>he darkest scenario is indeed happening  - the Hybridation is
r>eal and is the first step of a classical invasion where the
>Grey ultimate goal is the total control upon a modified humanity
>and earth destiny- then this undetectable civilization might
>purposefully renounce its undetectability and try to help us in
>a way we could eventually understand and profit from.

>b - They see the modification and takeover of a primitive
>civilization by a little less primitive one as a natural
>process, globally beneficial, that doesn't deserve any
i>ntervention. We would end up assimilated in and controlled by
>the Grey civilization.

>c - They left long ago for better parallel universes leaving
>behind only the primitive and mildly less primitive
>civilizations. Which could be equivalent to b has far as our
>concerns goes. But not necessarily as being very advanced could
>allow them to still send us warnings - but not all the time
>(Conduit closing,?)

>The ironic part is wether Ba or Bb or even a totally unexpected
>one are more likely to happen only depends on the Ethical and
>Philosophical views of a civilization that we know nothing
>about, that is presumably undetectable, and way beyond our
>comprehension capabilities.

>Could we be more in the dark?

>Lets just hope there is some universality in Ethical concepts.

As I pointed out in my book. Abduction In My Life, we have to
determine whether, in our ineractions with the aliens, we face
love, hate or indifference.  I might add "need" or "necessity"
(they neither love nor hate us, but they are not indifferent
because they need us).

>Sorry for my English,

Great English. Especially compared to my French.






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   Sep > Sep 7

                   John Ford Redux (SDI 6 September, 2003)

From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2003 09:56:55 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2003 11:23:32 -0400
Subject: John Ford Redux (SDI 6 September, 2003)


My first encounter with John Ford occurred around July 12, 1996.
I was driving from Alabama to Florida to join my wife for a
weekend vacation and a little celebration of our impending 23rd
wedding anniversary (Hey! I'm a normal guy!) The drive is a
pleasant one, on good roads, and I was really enjoying the trip!
Ahead of me was two days of good beer, fun in the sun, and a
cessation of college for the summer (I'd returned to college
after retiring from the military to get a teaching credential,
which is a whole other sordid story...).

While I drove I listened distractedly to some car radio. I
wasn't really listening to the news or the announcer as I drove
and was just about to tune to a *hairier* spot on the radio dial
when, abruptly... the announcer used the expression "UFO." That
stopped my hand at the channel knob, and I settled back into the
car seat to listen. I have an interest in UFOs as you might
have heard... <g>.

Anyway... The reporter shared (I paraphrase) that some loopy UFO
whack-job from Suffolk county, New York had been arrested and
charged with conspiracy to commit murder... in a new, new-age
and completely inexplicable way. It seems this "crazy" person
*purloined* a quantity of radium from some facility somewhere
(Brookhaven I think), and his *astonishing* plan was to break
into the victim's house... and put the powdered radium into the
victim 's toothpaste!

Let's pause for a moment to let that sink in...

I remember thinking at the time! This incredibly hapless fellow
must be one mondo-bionic dim-bulb of a ruminating snot-bubbler...
to try a stunt like that! Besides, wouldn't it take -years- to
dispatch a guy in that manner (if it worked at all!), and what
about the logistics of the act itself? Radium is hot stuff,
easily detectable! I'd think when the victim turned his lights
off to retire and wife or family noted that Dad's mouth glowed
in the dark... it might have meant something to someone!
Frankly, I found the whole episode too puzzling, too unlikely,
and just plain dumb.

Something about it just wasn't right, though, and curiosity's
fuse got -lit-. I thought about it off and on... all weekend,
and I decided that when I returned to Enterprise after the
vacation... I had to have more details in its regard. It was
just too bleedin' stupid to believe!

It's coming up on eight years later, and I am saddened in the
extreme regarding what I found out, almost from the beginning,
that there is much, much more than meets the eye with regard to
the John Ford Affair... like it is, pretty much, with anything
else... well like it is with pretty much -everything- else...
but I digress.

Right off the bat there were surprises...

Consider... someone *unsettled* enough to put radium in
someone's toothpaste... must have some kind of *history* of
aberrant behavior, wouldn' t you think? I mean, a guy like this
just doesn't spring fully formed from the head of Zeus! There
must be some kind of record or audit trail of deviancy...
wouldn't that be fair?

But no -- there is no such record! In fact, the absolute and
exact -opposite- is the case! John Ford was a model citizen, a
court officer, and a holder of a college Master's degree. He
was good to his mother, and though he has -yet- to marry, he'd
dated and gotten close a couple of times; he's a normal guy! He
was a registered Republican (which he can be forgiven for...I
suppose), but he's active in local politics (the point), and
he's even known to weep at the suffering of small animals. He'd
regularly rescue stray dogs from the pound. He volunteered
selflessly during civic emergencies. The guy was a proverbial
PILLAR! Also Proverbial-ly, anyone who's known him has said
that it is *impossible* that he could be involved in a
conspiracy to murder -anyone- much less and -especially- someone
as high profile as the intended victim, John Powell... the
biggest wheel in the Suffolk County, New York political machine
-- the biggest such machine in the country!

...Think, for a moment, about the *influence* of a political
machine such as the one just described... think what it could
impose, ...and -throughout- a slew of conflicted government
departments and hip-shooting private agencies...

Let -that- sink in a moment!

John Ford was something else, too. He was stubborn. For cause,
he could get so far up your nose you felt his boney knees on
your septum, and he was prone to explore every inch of his
constitutional *rights* -- to every corner of the ethical
envelope, too. He was a retired court officer and had observed
how a litigious Suffolk county worked. He wasn't a bone-head,
He wasn't a dupe, and He wasn't a fool, but he -was- a *Boy
Scout*, and he thought the Constitution of the United States was
a -living- document that actually -meant- something... John was
an honorable man -then- (as now I'm betting), but if you
disrespected him or discounted him you'd quickly hear about it.
 He knew how to make the system work... or so he thought! That
system would turn on him like Sigorney Weaver's *Alien*... and
cocoon him in -fact-!

John Ford was something else, still. He was EASY to discount.
 He was EASY to marginalize. Subsequent smirking writers of
obvious and uninformed -bias-... would later portray him as a
pathetic and ineffectual mook with failed political
aspirations... a loser, a loser who lived with his Mom. Prone
to be portly, he looked a little like Elmer Fudd and -that-
 distinctive appearance was predictably accessorized (it's been
said) with the voice of Daffy Duck... the poor guy was -roundly-
 painted for the fringe. Still -- he was tenacious,
contentious, and certainly tendentious... he took no crap!

John Ford may have been one -more- thing. He may have been
crazy. But if he was, good listener, he was benignly and
efficaciously so! Moreover... (and note -this-... he was
interested in what the truth was; he was knowledgeable and
talented with regard to *ferreting* that truth out, and he knew
how to organize the troops to chase a bear through the
buckwheat! He was active in local government, remember; he -
understood- about grassroots activism! And... (and it's a big
"and") it was not a preponderance of the persons around him, by
any means, who thought he was remotely crazy to begin with!
 Moreover, those intrepid and discerning persons thinking him
a... pork-chop short of a mixed grill... assumed he must be
crazy because he "believed in UFOs". Hey! FLAG DOWN!!! So
does Stanton Friedman! So does Edgar Mitchell, and, very
likely... so do YOU, listener. The question's begged when the
listener's turn comes!

What was John Ford doing, really, when a couple of platoons of
SWAT team showed up at his residence to arrest him for
conspiracy to commit murder? Well, he was doing what he did
best! He was organizing the locals for a lawful exercise of
their of their natural right to be INFORMED about what they are
paying for... and he was doing some expert detective-work to
facilitate that end! He was -also-, and note this... feverishly
investigating John Powell and Powell's complicity... in the
strange behavior of the police, firemen, Parks&Sanitation and -
other- government officials of Suffolk county, New York!
 ...Behavior peculiar in the extreme!

What was John Ford's root concern in all of this?

Well -- John Ford, no dummy remember, was sure that Suffolk
County officials, and the titular -head- of those officials,
John Powell, were all hip-deep in a *conspiracy*... to cover up
the crash of an alien space craft near Moriches Bay on September
28 in 1989...

Now -- for any of you listeners out there smotherin' a giggle...
remember that dozens of credible witness saw -something- highly
strange transpire in and around the bay on that night, so those
foundationless giggles (the listener might be muffling)... can
be retired with some shame! Verily, and since 1982, the New
York counties of Orange, Putnam, Rockland, Duchess and
Westchester... were swamp-gassed with some 5,000 reports of
large, boomerang-shaped... unidentified flying objects in the
skies overhead... giggle if you still can...

Anyway...

In a completely lawful manner, with a minimum of actionable
eccentricity, and with some intelligent intensity and single-
minded passion, John Ford -investigated- John Powell. Well
within the law, and with some vigor, the little guy tried to get
the gotcha *goods* on the big guy. One can certainly begin to
predict the eventual -outcome- of this David and Goliath
story...

...Time warp...

When I was a child living in west Connecticut I used to hear my
Dad tell his friends these stories, myths, and legends about the
cess-pool of corruption that was Suffolk County NY in the
forties and fifties... Does the listener have any idea what the
"quotient of corruption" is NOW... or in the 1989 to 1996
timeframe, specifically? ...Do you think it got any better,
friends and fellow motes?

Let me just cut to the short-hair chase, ladies and gentlemen!

John Powell was dirty as hell! In 1999, and out of political
favors apparently, he would be charged with (and plead no
contest to) Racketeering, Grand Theft, ... Extortion! And
that's just what they charged him on, folks ...you can bet it
was the tip of the iceberg! In the year 2000 he would be given
the *minimum* sentence of twenty-three months in a *minimum*
security country-club! With good behavior, you know like not
being -caught- raping a fellow inmate... he would be out in 18
months...

John Ford, on the other hand has not drawn a free breath or seen
the light of day since 1996...

Is anyone else seeing the connected dots in this picture? The
truly intrepid John Ford was investigating a man, one John
Powell, who could bear -no- investigation of -any- type! John
Ford likely scared the wild, blueberry HORSE-MUFFINS out of John
Powell (and what kind of mamma' s-boy-loser can John Ford -be-
... if he make a BIG fish in a BIG pond like John Powell sweat
the hook!)!

Is it a stretch to suppose that John Powell could have exercised
a few tainted *muscles* of his vast political machine of graft
and conspiracy... to... TORPEDO John Ford? Given the senseless
facts of the case, John Ford's history, education and
references... does the listener think it *remotely* possible
that this is so?

Oh, it's so... it's just another iteration of the same old story
we become more and more accustomed to in increasingly terrorized
and tyrannical world... Goliath, friends and fellow motes, only
loses in the Bible! And forget -all- about John Ford's
assertions with regard to UFOs, which may or may not be dead on
the money (if wrong in FACT, he is most assuredly abundantly
correct in spirit)! John Ford's ufological assertions may have -
been- all wet! They REMAIN; however, beside the point (...only
significant in that Ford's "belief" in them proved the case of
his... trumped UP... instability... so he could be more handily
cocooned and effectively silenced)! What's IMPORTANT remains to
be that Ford was busily investigating a -man-, a -criminal- man
with long ties to organized crime, and so a man who could -bear-
 no such investigation!

John ford is innocent, and he rots in prison for the convenience
of an ongoing conspiracy and a criminal elite!

Truly, Suffolk County owes John Ford more than they could -ever-
 pay. They owe him his pension, a home, his savings, his modest
gun collection, all his memorabilia, all his lawyers fees, and
year after year after year of hard, hard time... Time made -all-
 the more intolerable... in as much as he was a complete -
innocent-... for ALL of that time!

Ford's attorney, one John Rouse, has given every indication that
the case against Ford is specious at best... and wholly
contrived at worst! The witnesses were suspect (...perhaps
planted, or sold Ford out for reduced sentences committed in
other crimes... I mean -nobody- knows went on there!), the
clinical evaluation determining that he was *insane* was almost
certainly flawed, canted, and ignorantly uninformed, and the "B"
movie circu mstances surrounding Ford's ongoing torment... are
too suspicious to be minimally credible... and are without DOUBT
scurrilously fabricated!

John Ford deserves a re-look, a change of venue, or a hearing of
some type to try to get some real justice done. The loss of
Ford's freedom for the convenience of a craven convicted
criminal is the symbolic loss of -all- our freedoms, a
repudiation of everything that America is supposed to be, and a
crime in its own right. John Ford's civil rights and right to
personal liberty have been violated in the most fundamental
sense and we VALIDATE the arbitrary rule of *privileged*
autocrats... to let John Ford's ongoing treatment continue...
 This cannot be allowed to stand! Restore John Ford to his
previous life, Suffolk County, now and with all deliberate
speed!

Lehmberg@snowhill.com

EXPLORE "AlienViewGroup" at its HostPros URL.
http://www.alienview.net


JOHN FORD RESTORATION FUND -- John will be released eventually.
He'll need a tax free cash stake to get on his feet. Let's put
one together for him; the bigger it is -- the more attention
he gets. It could have been you. E-mail for detail.
$350.00 pledged -- $200.00 collected!





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   Sep > Sep 8

                    Re: The Hunt For Zero Point - Aldrich

From: Jan Aldrich <project1947@earthlink.net>
Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2003 13:21:39 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 12:05:08 -0400
Subject: Re: The Hunt For Zero Point - Aldrich


>From: Erik Landahl <eriklandahl@hotmail.com>
>To: ufoupdates@sympatico.ca
>Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 09:05:11 -0700
>Subject: Re: The Hunt For Zero Point

>>From: Jan Aldrich <project1947@earthlink.net>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 9:22:35 -0400
>>Subject: Re: The Hunt For Zero Point

<snip>

>With all due respect to Messrs. Friedman, Hall and Aldrich, I
>wish they would give greater respect to the research abilities
>and conservative nature of Nick Cook. He is an aviation editor
>and aerospace defense consultant for Jane's Defense Weekly, the
>planet's most conservative and most strongly industry-connected
>aerospace periodical. Mr. Cook is extraordinarily respected
>throughout the aerospace defense industry. The mere nature of
>the research he participated in was enough to put his Jane's
>career at risk. He is not one to traipse after a silly idea.

>Anti-gravity technology may not exist. There is no proof
>available to the best of our knowledge. Then again, in the late
>70's and early 80's experts scoffed at the hints of "stealth",
>"radar-proof" technology being practically applied to production
>aircraft. Experts sometimes scoff at ideas because they buy into
>the belief that they are so well-connected that if some new
>technology existed they would be privy to it. If they don't know
>about it then it must be fantasy. These people underestimate the
>ability of the U.S. defense industry's black world to keep
>research hidden.
>
>Point is we don't know. But anti-gravity technology is not in
>the same league as George Adamski's Venusians. Anti-gravity is,
>however remote it may seem, a possibility grounded in advanced
>physics and a possibility that has definitely been the subject
>of at least sporadic research for the past century. What the
>U.S. black defense industry has been doing, if anything, we
>don't know. But Nick Cook has credentials that eclipse anyone on
>this list when it comes to the contacts, the industry respect,
>and the ability to open the door of the black defense world just
>a crack.
>
>Please do not dismiss Mr. Cook's research so lightly. You do him
>and all potential readers a disservice by doing so. Read Jane's
>Defense Weekly or any other Jane's publication and you will
>understand the high caliber of research and factual-based
>journalism that Mr. Cook is trained to reach.

Oh, please! Generally anything that starts off, "With all due
respect to...." means just the opposite! I don't control what
any potential readers do or don't. I doubt that anyone will be
deterred from reading this book by any of our comments, but
maybe they should be, or maybe they should get the book at a
reduced price or second-hand as people have voted with their
feet on this offering with new copies slashed to the bone and
second-hand copies readily available for a small fraction of the
original price.

Once again, we get this appeal, well we don't know, so don't
come down too hard on this guy. Hogwash! That this fellow is
works for highly respected outfit that commands respect for its
authoritative reference works means that we should expect a work
worthy of him. Unfortunately he produced a work which gives some
credence to the Nazi saucer myth and demonstrates shallow
historical perspectives of the events after the war.

The government and industry fund huge amounts of research that
never goes anywhere. How about multi-billions spent for Dyna-
soar and Sgt. York? The former cancelled after a fair trail, the
latter a corrupt piece of junk that should have never made it
off the drawing board and could not have gotten as far as it did
without criminal negligence.

In the heady days of the 1940s and 1950s it was thought that
breakthroughs existed in atomic power ("electricity too cheap to
meter") controlled nuclear fusion technology ("the promise of
clean limitless power"), atomic rockets and ion powered
spaceships plying the solar system, personal flying machines
("just like the family automobile"), space colonies moon and
planets, antigravity vehicles, etc., etc. (let's not forget just
recently how the Segway was supposed to transform the
cities....good luck!)

So, all kinds of research was funded, good research, hair brained,
and trash. It was felt if the atomic bomb could be created by a
crash program based on theoretical physical knowledge, gravity
and everything else would yield to such techniques. Wrong!

Paperclip did not bring large amounts of German theoretical
physicists to the US or fund such scientists in Germany. First
many of them left Germany before the war, >most< that were left
were second rank, Nazism was not kind to physics. The thousand
experts allowed under Paperclip and others who were employed in
Germany were engineers, test pilots rocket experts, etc. Putt,
McCoy, Watson, O'Mara, Seashore, Deyarmand, etc. were not
scouring Europe looking for magic anti-gravity devices, they
were looking for designs for jets and rockets; control surfaces;
advance metals alloys and material; fuels; telemetry, machine
tools, etc., etc., the actual planes and rockets, and the people
who designed, tested and built them. (The Soviets missed out on
a lot of the top people, but they took all the factories all the
technicians and all the skilled workers they could lay their
hands on.)

Mr. Landahl would have that since Cook works for a prestigious
firm and is able to impress us with his contacts he should
somehow be immune to criticism from those who are not his
"betters." The logic fallacy of appeal to authority and the
ultimate in disrespect, Mr. Landahl! That "Nick Cook has
credentials that eclipse anyone on this list when it comes to
the contacts, the industry respect...." means that I hold him to
a much higher standard than others with lesser status. When he
produces material of lower caliber his works cry out for
critical examination. You, Mr. Landahl, advocate that no one
cries out that the Emperor has no clothes.

Let me say that my credentials may be modest and my voice small,
but I will continue speak out against foolishness in ufology.
You won't see me or the few score like me speak at any UFO
conferences. Ufology can't abide, criticism, high standards, and
cortical thinking. People who don't have the "Answer" announcing
it with a sure voice are not wanted here. People with hair
brained ideas and a skewed views of history are always welcome.

I don't spare anyone critical examination and while I revere
skepticism, many so-called UFO "skeptics" are a discredit to the
name. I think the Project 1947 site shows that I advocate
serious attention to the UFO problem by both history and
science.

This kind of discussion is a distractions from such
examinations, but I feel that from time to time it is necessary
to come out and oppose the trash in Ufology and take the heat
for doing so.




Jan Aldrich
Project 1947
http://www.project1947.com/
P. O. Box 391
Canterbury, CT 06331
(860) 546-9135







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                Re: John Ford Redux (SDI 6 September, 2003) -

From: Joe McGonagle <joe@ufology.org.uk>
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 16:36:58 +0100
Fwd Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 12:39:11 -0400
Subject: Re: John Ford Redux (SDI 6 September, 2003) -


Hi Alfred, List.

>From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2003 09:56:55 -0500
>Subject: John Ford Redux (SDI 6 September, 2003)

<snip>

>Anyway... The reporter shared (I paraphrase) that some loopy UFO
>whack-job from Suffolk county, New York had been arrested and
>charged with conspiracy to commit murder... in a new, new-age
>and completely inexplicable way. It seems this "crazy" person
>*purloined* a quantity of radium from some facility somewhere
>(Brookhaven I think), and his *astonishing* plan was to break
>into the victim's house... and put the powdered radium into the
>victim 's toothpaste!

<snip>

So did he have some Radium in his posession? If so, why?

Just curious......


Joe






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                               Radiation? Burn

From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO <hbccufo@telus.net>
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 12:08:37 -0700
Fwd Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 18:32:55 -0400
Subject: Radiation? Burn


Hi List

Gosh, I just received a photo of a radiation burn - or burn of
some type - which showed up after the missing time event in
Kelowna, B.C. The photo shows a very bad burn located at the
very bottom of the woman's tail bone, or right above her
bottom.

I have written back as the photo shows some of her buttocks and
I do not want to post without permission first. If permission is
granted I will post the photo as it is a very important part to
this case. I'll keep everyone informed.

I don't know if I posted this note before or not. But I have
another couple who saw the lights on July 31, 2002 around the
same time the women had their missing time event. This brings
the total witnesses to 6 who saw lights in the women's area.


Take care

Brian
HBCC UFO Research







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              Re: Subanthropic Principle & The Undetectability

From: Eric Wenger <wenger@uisoftware.com>
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 20:35:03 +0200
Fwd Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 18:16:42 -0400
Subject: Re: Subanthropic Principle & The Undetectability


>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2003 00:04:09 -0400
>Subject: Re: Subanthropic Principle & The Undetectability Conjecture

<snip>

>>The ironic part is wether Ba or Bb or even a totally unexpected
>>one are more likely to happen only depends on the Ethical and
>>Philosophical views of a civilization that we know nothing
>>about, that is presumably undetectable, and way beyond our
>>comprehension capabilities.

>>Could we be more in the dark?
>>Lets just hope there is some universality in Ethical concepts.

>As I pointed out in my book. Abduction In My Life, we have to
>determine whether, in our ineractions with the aliens, we face
>love, hate or indifference. I might add "need" or "necessity"
>(they neither love nor hate us, but they are not indifferent
>because they need us).

Dear Bruce, One thing that always puzzled me in all the
abduction reports is the total lack of discussion or interest
from the presumed Aliens about Art, Music, Philosophy or
anything related to human culture in general.

(If somebody has some evidence of such an interest I would
really like to know)

Humanity can hardly be defined only by its genes.

They might have a need or a use for our DNA but I would have
strong doubts about their love or interest in Humanity as a
cultural specie.

Even the way they are presumably collecting genetic material
doesn't make much sense: Why would they need such elaborate and
bizarre procedures when an advanced civilization could easily
recover that DNA from hair or dead skin cells in a much more
subtle and non-invasive ways. A very advanced one could probably
Synthesize anything they would want from scratch.

All this points to my previous hypothesis (if they exits)

-They are not very advanced

-They are not in the business of "saving us", at least as a culture.

Think of the criminal short sights of the US in Irak when they
protected the oil ministery but allowed immensely valuable
cultural treasures belonging to humanity to be looted.

Cultural loss was never part of their accounting.


Best Regards,

Eric






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   Sep > Sep 8

                   Picnic Island in Honey Harbour, Ontario

From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO <hbccufo@telus.net>
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 12:39:17 -0700
Fwd Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 18:53:49 -0400
Subject: Picnic Island in Honey Harbour, Ontario


Hi List

Here is another report for August 31, 2003 which just came in
today. It is a report which describes a bolide/fireball
witnessed by many over Ontario, Canada.


Picnic Island in Honey Harbour, Ontario

Date: August 31, 2003
Time: 12:30 a.m. (00:30)

Brian,

My friend (name deleted by HBCC UFO) sent me your message after
I told him about something I had seen early Sunday Aug. 31st
around 12:30 am. We have a home on Picnic Island in Honey
Harbour, Ontario. At 12:30 AM my daughter and I were out for a
short walk when the entire park lit up with a brilliant bright
light. The light had a slight green glow to it and I thought it
was a car coming up the road with strange headlights until I
turned around and noticed an orange/green ball of light above
our heads. As soon as we looked at it, it exploded directly
above the trees beside us, when it exploded it was like a
firework exploding in all directions with orange balls of fire.
 I did hear a sound that is hard to explain, I believe what we
saw was a bolide. I spoke to several people around the park who
had seen it and everyone saw a ball of light explode and several
heard the explosion. None of us saw any coloured lights on the
object.

I hope this helps your investigation.

I would like to thank the witness for their report. Witnesses
personal information deleted from this email.


Brian Vike
Director HBCC UFO Research
Canadian Toll Free UFO Hotline 1 866 262 1989 - Free call.
Phone/Fax 1 250 845 2189
Editor: Canadian Communicator - Paranormal Magazine
email: hbccufo@telus.net
Website: http://www3.telus.net/public/wilbur8/hbcc_ufo_research.htm






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                     Re: The Hunt For Zero Point - Pope

From: Nick Pope <nick@popemod.freeserve.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 21:09:01 +0100
Fwd Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 22:20:28 -0400
Subject: Re: The Hunt For Zero Point - Pope


>From: Jan Aldrich <project1947@earthlink.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2003 13:21:39 -0400
>Subject: Re: The Hunt For Zero Point

>>From: Erik Landahl <eriklandahl@hotmail.com>
>>To: ufoupdates@sympatico.ca
>>Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 09:05:11 -0700
>>Subject: Re: The Hunt For Zero Point

>>With all due respect to Messrs. Friedman, Hall and Aldrich, I
>>wish they would give greater respect to the research abilities
>>and conservative nature of Nick Cook. He is an aviation editor
>>and aerospace defense consultant for Jane's Defense Weekly, the
>>planet's most conservative and most strongly industry-connected
>>aerospace periodical. Mr. Cook is extraordinarily respected
>>throughout the aerospace defense industry. The mere nature of
>>the research he participated in was enough to put his Jane's
>>career at risk. He is not one to traipse after a silly idea.

<snip>

>Once again, we get this appeal, well we don't know, so don't
>come down too hard on this guy. Hogwash! That this fellow is
>works for highly respected outfit that commands respect for its
>authoritative reference works means that we should expect a work
>worthy of him. Unfortunately he produced a work which gives some
>credence to the Nazi saucer myth and demonstrates shallow
>historical perspectives of the events after the war.

<snip>

>Paperclip did not bring large amounts of German theoretical
>physicists to the US or fund such scientists in Germany. First
>many of them left Germany before the war, >most< that were left
>were second rank, Nazism was not kind to physics. The thousand
>experts allowed under Paperclip and others who were employed in
>Germany were engineers, test pilots rocket experts, etc. Putt,
>McCoy, Watson, O'Mara, Seashore, Deyarmand, etc. were not
>scouring Europe looking for magic anti-gravity devices, they
>were looking for designs for jets and rockets; control surfaces;
>advance metals alloys and material; fuels; telemetry, machine
>tools, etc., etc., the actual planes and rockets, and the people
>who designed, tested and built them. (The Soviets missed out on
>a lot of the top people, but they took all the factories all the
>technicians and all the skilled workers they could lay their
>hands on.)

<snip>

Those with an interest in the true extent of Nazi scientific
progress might be interested in John Cornwell's new book,
Hitler's Scientists. It's published this month, and has been
favourably reviewed in the UK media. You can pre-order on
Amazon.

If the Nazis had been capable of a fraction of the things
attributed to them by some conspiracy theorists, they would have
won the war.

Co-incidentally, a friend of mine has some interesting documents
and photographs concerning the operations of the so-called T
Forces. I'm trying to persuade him to publish this material.


Best wishes,

Nick Pope






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   Sep > Sep 8

                  Re: More Bentwaters Information - Clarke

From: David Clarke <cd292@crazydiamonds.fsnet.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 21:49:21 +0100
Fwd Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 22:25:15 -0400
Subject: Re: More Bentwaters Information - Clarke


>From: Georgina Bruni <georgina@easynet.co.uk>
>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 12:42:36 +0100
>Subject: Re: More Bentwaters Information

>>From: David Clarke <cd292@crazydiamonds.fsnet.co.uk>
>>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 09:21:14 +0100
>>Subject: Re: More Bentwaters Information - Clarke

>>You may well be right that Conde's hoax was not connected with
>>the sightings, but I haven't seen that demonstrated beyond
>>reasonable doubt, and that is my point.

>When I was researching this case I had people contact me
>claiming they may have been witnesses to the case, often with
>nothing to back up their claims, and in some cases they would
>have no dates etc but insist that it was too much of a
>coincidence. Often their claims had more substance than Conde's.
>But as a researcher I need more than coincidence or speculation
>to work with. Nobody with any common sense would take Conde's
>claims seriously without having something positive to back up
>his story. All Conde has offered is coincidence.

You're right, but a coincidence that is significant for a number
of reasons, that he has explained. On the BBC show he also
mentions the base radio system coming to life with people
talking about UFOs after his prank was over. Can anyone
seriously dismiss that as having no significance, given what
we know happened on 28-29 December 1980?

But that doesn't mean to say I believe the "coincidence" is all
that's needed to explain the case. Far from it! That's why I was
suggesting that someone go find out if the bases were on any
kind of alert during the December 1980 period. Surely that
cannot be an impossible task, and it would settle the issue
without any ambiguity. Then we can all go back to arguing
about something else.

It's not good enough to rely upon what people "remember";
this is an issue which can only be settled through contemporary
documentation.

>>>Well Georgina, let's see how you explain John Burroughs
>>testimony on the BBC Inside Out programme - ie that the case
>>has been exaggerated by Halt and Penniston and that the three
>>men did indeed pursue a lighthouse on the all-important first-
>>night.
>
>>This is John Burroughs speaking - one of your "prime witnesses"
>>from the first night.
>
>Below is the complete transcript concerning Burroughs, taken
>from the BBC Inside Out programme. Now where does he say they
>pursued a lighthouse? Either the BBC sent me an edited copy
>(unlikely) or you have been misinformed. In fact Burroughs
>states quite strongly that it was _not_ the lighthouse.
>
>Answer this Dave! Have you seen the tape or are you basing your
>questions on James Easton's account?

I was basing my comments both on the tape and on the email
exchanges James Easton has had with Burroughs, which have
been discussed extensively on the UFO Research List.

No one is denying that Burroughs has made it plain that what
he saw the first night wasn't a car or a lighthouse. In fact, I
agree with him, and with you to some extent on this one! But
let's not mix up the "first night" with the "second night"; the
two are completely different issues.

What I was trying to say was that Burroughs states that after
seeing the lights he couldn't explain, the three men then saw
*another* light which they went on to pursue for a number
of miles, and which turned out to be the Orfordness lighthouse.

Granted, he dosen't say this on the BBC programme but he
has made this statement to Easton, and I thought his position
on this was common knowledge, hence my question.

This is in fact the same story as appears in the original
statements made by the men, back in January 1981. I think
this is just as important as the 'UFO' because if they were
so easily misled by a  lighthouse, then it suggests that what
they first saw may also have been something ordinary that
was misperceived in a similar fashion as the lighthouse
was subsequently. I emphasise the *may have been.*

It also poses the question: why does Burroughs remember
this episode but Penniston and Halt have completely
erased it from their memories?

I think that is more than a little odd.

>I understand that Easton
>has now closed the case on Conde having been bombarded by posts
>on his list from sceptics who disagree with Conde's claims.

Yes I think there was all of one post! Is that exaggeration or
just dramatisation?

>
>Regarding comments from John Burroughs concerning Halt and
>Penniston. He doesn't say they _exaggerated_ he says
>_dramatized_.

You're right he does say dramatised, but what does he mean by
this? The context implies he does not fully agree with the stories
he has heard them tell about the incident in later years, i.e.
that they have "grown with the re-telling." He certainly believes
that the hypnotic regression that Penniston has undergone has
led his story to become more dramatic than it actually was. I
would call that exaggeration, but I admit that's just my
interpretation of what he says.

>The last time Burroughs saw Halt and Penniston was
>at the filming of the Strange But True? programme when Burroughs
>had some issues with them, and it's no secret that he was upset
>because Halt led the crew to the wrong site, which is mentioned
>in my book. I don't have to tell you that the media like to
>dramatize so it's understandable that he expresses such an
>opinion. What you have to understand is that Burroughs was not
>as close to the craft as Penniston. But having said that, you
>can't dismiss the drawings he made of the craft for the USAF
>following the incident. Also the interview he gave to American
>researcher Antonio Huneeus  in 1990.
>
Burroughs was not as close to the craft as Penniston? How
close was close?  The fact is that Burroughs says he only saw
lights and Penniston talks about examining a solid object
and seeing symbols etched on the side etc. That is a major
contradiction, and I haven't yet seen a good explanation as
to why these men are telling such different stories despite
being present at the same "incident."

I'm not suggesting anyone is lying. I happen to agree with you
on this one. I do think all three men saw something very odd
on that 'first night'... but I think there is an awful lot of confusion
and exaggeration to be cut through before it's possible to say
exactly what that was, or wasn't.

>I hope this puts the record straight and that you pay more
>attention to the facts in future instead of twisting witness
>testimony and basing your beliefs on mere coincidence

I don't have any beliefs based upon "coincidence", as explained
above. I just believe that Conde's story can and should  be
checked out against the facts, rather than being dismissed
because you think it is ridiculous. Lots of mundane events have,
in the past, created classic UFO incidents. This may be one of
them. Then again it might not, but Conde's story has enough
intriguing detail to suggest it has *some* connection with the
case.

Georgina, you are on record ('You Can't Tell the People', p'back
edition, p406) as saying: "I am now more than ever convinced
that they [the Rendlesham forest UFOs] are time travellers from
our future or another dimension."

Could you explain how you manage to reach *this* conclusion
without twisting facts and witness testimony?


Best wishes,

Dave Clarke







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   Sep > Sep 8

                  Rendlesham - Latest UFO Theory Dismissed

From: Eustaquio Andrea Patounas <socex@terra.com.br>
Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 18:06:38 -0300
Fwd Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 22:32:18 -0400
Subject: Rendlesham - Latest UFO Theory Dismissed


Source: East Anglian Daily Times - UK

http://www.eadt.co.uk/content/news/NewsStory.asp?Brand=EADOnline&Category=News&I
temId=IPED08+Sep+2003+00%3A20%3A50%3A527

September 8, 2003 05:20

A researcher has dismissed a theory that the world famous
Rendlesham UFO was nothing more than a prank played by an
American serviceman.

The latest theory about the cause of the UFO allegedly seen in
Rendlesham Forest close to Woodbridge airfield after Christmas
in 1980 concerns a bored young man driving on the runway with
flashing lights on his patrol car.

But Georgina Bruni, author of a 440-page book on the UFO, has
counter claimed there were inconsistencies in his account, and
his story had been used by ''debunkers'' to discredit the case
that an unidentified flying object was seen hovering in the
forest.

Kevin Conde, who retired as a technical sergeant, stated he
wanted to play a prank on one of his colleagues. He apparently
drove a battered 1979 Plymouth Volare standard issue American
police car down the runway, where he stuck red and green lenses
on the spotlights, switched on his loudspeaker and drove around
in circles on the runway in the fog while flashing his car
lights.

His story was recently featured in a BBC television documentary
Inside Out and highlighted by other media.

Mr Conde is unsure exactly when the prank took place, and
therefore is not sure if he was inadvertantly responsible for
the so-called UFO incident.

But Ms Bruni, who spent three years investigating the UFO and
interviewed hundreds of people, is concerned that this theory
could detract people from pursuing the definitive cause of the
mysterious sighting.

She said: ''Mr Conde claims he played the prank on the taxiway
(runway). The incident did not take place on or near the runway,
but inside the forest."

Ms Bruni said Mr Conde was unsure of the date, but said it was
foggy on the night and he had played his loudspeaker. But, said
Ms Bruni, there had not been any fog reported on the runway or
surrounding Woodbridge air base and the UFOs were completely
silent.

She added it was strange that the American air force allowed
security police to use a battered car and why was the one-year
old car in such a state of disrepair?

Mr Conde, a part time police officer in Sacramento, has been
unavailable for comment. But he has told an internet newsletter:
''For reasons that are hard to explain, it is my impression that
I pulled my stunt during an exercise. We would not have had an
exercise during the Christmas holiday. That is a strong
indication that my stunt is not the source of this specific
incident.''

The UFO mystery relates to an account from two American
patrolmen who told Colonel Halt, the United States deputy
commander at Bentwaters air base, they had seen a metallic
triangular object in 1980 hovering or on legs with a pulsing red
light on top and a bank of blue lights underneath. It
disappeared through the forest and animals on a nearby farm went
into a frenzy.








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   Sep > Sep 8

                           Houston, BC - 09-08-03

From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO <hbccufo@telus.net>
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 14:11:48 -0700
Fwd Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 22:42:17 -0400
Subject: Houston, BC - 09-08-03



Houston, British Columbia

Date: September 2, 2003 Time:  11:05 p.m.

An elderly couple living on Bold Road, just off Buck Flats Road
reported that they watched a very strange object hovering over
top of Pea Cock mountain. The wife was alerted to it first, then
called her husband to come and watch. They told me that lights
would be seen running around the outside of the object, but it
was hard to make out the actual shape of the craft. More round
in shape they guessed. As the object was very close to their
location, they said not a sound was heard coming from it. As
they observed the object, it did move along the top of the
mountain for approx: a kilometer. It stopped and dropped down
behind the mountain rather quickly. That was the last time they
saw the object that night.

The on September 3, 2003 at approx: 11:45 p.m. the same object
showed up over the mountain, but more towards the south. This
time the object did not move in any direction and was observed
for approx: 6 to 8 seconds before it dropped out of sight. Again
no sound was heard, and the object, or light coming from it was
extremely bright. Both of the witnessed said they have never
witnessed anything like it before, and was really surprised to
see this strange object which they have no explanation for.

HBCC UFO Note: This was certainly not a star, or Mars. The
second date of the sighting the object was a good height off the
top ridge of the mountain, and if a star it would have taken
sometime to drop down and out of sight. Also I asked the local
helicopter businesses to see if they had any flying in the area
at the time of this sighting. There was none flying at that
time. Everything was shut down before dark.

Thank you to the witnesses for their report.

Brian Vike, Director
HBCC UFO Research

----------

Houston, British Columbia

Date:  June 25, 2003
Time:  approx: 2:30 p.m.

A number of witnessed watched an unusual object fly from the
Telkwa Mountain range in the direction of the Morice Valley.
There were 5 people in the bunch and reported the object as
being round in shape, silver in color. The folks I talked with
said the object shot across the daylight sky very quickly,
leaving out the thought that it may have been a normal aircraft.
There were no wings, or anything else noted. It seemed as if the
object had a smooth surface all the way around it. Mind you it
was at a good distance away. No sound, no lights were reported
seen on it.

Thank you to the witnesses for the report.


Brian Vike, Director
HBCC UFO Research
Canadian Toll Free UFO Hotline 1 866 262 1989 - Free call.
Phone/Fax 1 250 845 2189
Editor: Canadian Communicator - Paranormal Magazine
email: hbccufo@telus.net
Website: http://www3.telus.net/public/wilbur8/hbcc_ufo_research.htm





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   Sep > Sep 8

                Re: John Ford Redux (SDI 6 September, 2003) -

From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 17:06:49 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 23:31:15 -0400
Subject: Re: John Ford Redux (SDI 6 September, 2003) -


>From: Joe McGonagle <joe@ufology.org.uk>
>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 16:36:58 +0100
>Subject: John Ford Redux (SDI 6 September, 2003)

>>From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2003 09:56:55 -0500
>>Subject: John Ford Redux (SDI 6 September, 2003)

><snip>

>>Anyway... The reporter shared (I paraphrase) that some loopy UFO
>>whack-job from Suffolk county, New York had been arrested and
>>charged with conspiracy to commit murder... in a new, new-age
>>and completely inexplicable way. It seems this "crazy" person
>>*purloined* a quantity of radium from some facility somewhere
>>(Brookhaven I think), and his *astonishing* plan was to break
>>into the victim's house... and put the powdered radium into the
>>victim 's toothpaste!

><snip>

>So did he have some Radium in his posession? If so, why?

>Just curious......


Hi Mr. McGonagle --

I understand the radium was, rather too quickly, found in the
open bed of Ford's pick-up truck by one of the policemen.


EXPLORE "AlienViewGroup" at its HostPros URL.
http://www.alienview.net

Lehmberg@snowhill.com

JOHN FORD RESTORATION FUND -- John will be released eventually.
He'll need a tax free cash stake to get on his feet. Let's put
one together for him; the bigger it is -- the more attention
he gets. It could have been you. E-mail for detail.
$350.00 pledged -- $200.00 collected!

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite.
What others see from afar, I leave far behind me."
- Giordano Bruno, scourged by the scabrously specious scurrilous.






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   Sep > Sep 8

                   Picnic Island in Honey Harbour, Ontario

From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO <hbccufo@telus.net>
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 12:39:17 -0700
Fwd Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 18:53:49 -0400
Subject: Picnic Island in Honey Harbour, Ontario


Hi List

Here is another report for August 31, 2003 which just came in
today. It is a report which describes a bolide/fireball
witnessed by many over Ontario, Canada.


Picnic Island in Honey Harbour, Ontario

Date: August 31, 2003
Time: 12:30 a.m. (00:30)

Brian,

My friend (name deleted by HBCC UFO) sent me your message after
I told him about something I had seen early Sunday Aug. 31st
around 12:30 am. We have a home on Picnic Island in Honey
Harbour, Ontario. At 12:30 AM my daughter and I were out for a
short walk when the entire park lit up with a brilliant bright
light. The light had a slight green glow to it and I thought it
was a car coming up the road with strange headlights until I
turned around and noticed an orange/green ball of light above
our heads. As soon as we looked at it, it exploded directly
above the trees beside us, when it exploded it was like a
firework exploding in all directions with orange balls of fire.
 I did hear a sound that is hard to explain, I believe what we
saw was a bolide. I spoke to several people around the park who
had seen it and everyone saw a ball of light explode and several
heard the explosion. None of us saw any coloured lights on the
object.

I hope this helps your investigation.

I would like to thank the witness for their report. Witnesses
personal information deleted from this email.


Brian Vike
Director HBCC UFO Research
Canadian Toll Free UFO Hotline 1 866 262 1989 - Free call.
Phone/Fax 1 250 845 2189
Editor: Canadian Communicator - Paranormal Magazine
email: hbccufo@telus.net
Website: http://www3.telus.net/public/wilbur8/hbcc_ufo_research.htm






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   Sep > Sep 9

              Re: Subanthropic Principle & The Undetectability

From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 20:36:25 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 08:15:55 -0400
Subject: Re: Subanthropic Principle & The Undetectability


>From: Eric Wenger <wenger@uisoftware.com>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 20:35:03 +0200
>Subject: Re: Subanthropic Principle & The Undetectability Conjecture

In response to Bruce Maccabee, Eric writes:

>Dear Bruce, One thing that always puzzled me in all the
>abduction reports is the total lack of discussion or interest
>from the presumed Aliens about Art, Music, Philosophy or
>anything related to human culture in general.

>(If somebody has some evidence of such an interest I would
>really like to know)

Just for the record, I've heard of at least one case where there
was curiosity indicated when an alleged alien puzzled over
musical notation, but I don't think it went any further than
that.

>Humanity can hardly be defined only by its genes.

>They might have a need or a use for our DNA but I would have
>strong doubts about their love or interest in Humanity as a
>cultural specie.

>Even the way they are presumably collecting genetic material
>doesn't make much sense: Why would they need such elaborate and
>bizarre procedures when an advanced civilization could easily
>recover that DNA from hair or dead skin cells in a much more
>subtle and non-invasive ways. A very advanced one could probably
>Synthesize anything they would want from scratch.

>All this points to my previous hypothesis (if they exits)

>-They are not very advanced

>-They are not in the business of "saving us", at least as a culture.

From our perspective, your theories carry some weight. But that
would presume a fair amount of "human" purpose to the actions of
what we have already acknowledged is an "alien" culture. Even
curiosity and the concept of learning are human traits that may
or may not translate to an alien species. Art, culture and
humanity aren't likely defined in the same way, if (as a
concept) they exist at all in an alien culture.

As speculated by Physics Professor Michio Kaku, any culture able
to generate the energy necessary to travel through the vastness
of space would likely have very little in common with us.

Just a thought.

Steve







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   Sep > Sep 9

                 FOIA Request To Garrison Commander Carlisle

From: Larry W. Bryant <overtci@cavtel.net>
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 20:39:53 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 08:20:29 -0400
Subject: FOIA Request To Garrison Commander Carlisle


To: atze-gc@carlisle.army.mil

TO:   Commander
      U.S. Army Garrison - Carlisle
      45 Ashburn Drive
      Carlisle Barracks, PA  17103-5006

FROM: Larry W. Bryant
      3518 Martha Custis Drive
      Alexandria, VA  22302

DATE:  September 8, 2003

This freedom-of-information request seeks from you a copy of all
Army records pertaining to your command's recent imposition of a
bar against your personnel's Internet access, via their
government-owned computers, to the privately operated, Carlisle-
focused web site called http://www.militarycorruption.com -
said records to include the following material:

Correspondence, memoranda for record, memos of telephone
conversations, e-mail messages, personnel-counseling letters,
executive directives, legal opinions, incident reports, minutes
of meetings, document-transmittal slips, faxed reports/other
documents, law-enforcement notices, briefing
charts/papers/notes/talking points, public-affairs policy
guidelines/decisions, military-police interview reports,
inspector-general inquiries/complaints/actions, and all
information-processing-system tasking instructions and technical
documentation used to construct and maintain your installation's
imposition of the "access bar" in question.

What's more: I also ask that you furnish me a copy of any and
all records that identify all other privately operated web sites
upon which your command has imposed a bar to its personnel's
access.

Because of the obvious public-interest nature of the requested
records (as regards public understanding/oversight of your
command's policies/practices/activities), and in my capacity as
both a First Amendment scholar and an independent writer
specializing in government-affairs/information accountability, I
hereby request that you waive all records-search fees incident
to your fulfilling this request.

Please note that I'm snail-mailing to you a signed printout of
this e-formatted letter.

LARRY W. BRYANT

Copies furnished to:

Mark S. Zaid, Esq. (Washington, D.C.)

Chairman, Subcommittee on Technology and Information Policy
U.S. House of Representatives

Director, Public Citizen








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                Re: John Ford Redux (SDI 6 September, 2003) -

From: Michael Christol <spachopr@bellsouth.net>
Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 19:56:16 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 08:28:08 -0400
Subject: Re: John Ford Redux (SDI 6 September, 2003) -


>From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2003 09:56:55 -0500
>Subject: John Ford Redux (SDI 6 September, 2003)

<snip>

I know John Ford. I exchanged info with him and helped spread
his investigation into the crash of an alien space craft near
Moriches Bay on September 28th,1989...through out the MUFONET
Back bone, prior to the Internet, via BBS"s, (Bulletin Board
Systems.)

He can be aggressive when it comes to protecting his
information, but at the same time, once he gets to know and
trust you, he opens up and gladly shares his information...(past
tense) I do not think he was capable of the charges against him.
There was a lot more to that story than reached the press or the
Internet.

It is my opinion that he was put away to stop his relentless
research into these reported crashes.

I talked to at least a half a dozen witnesses to the alleged
happenings at South Haven park, in Shirley, on the night of
November 24,1992. I have news releases John sent me at that
time.

John called for a: "Protest Candle Light Vigil! August 21st,
1993; 9:00 p.m to 11:00 p.m. Police Hdqtrs, Yaphank Ave,
Yaphank... END THE U.F.O. COVER-UP OVER THE SOUTH HAVEN PARK
U.F.O. CRASH!"

The flyer went on to say:

-----

"Protest the government cover-up over the UFO crash in South
Haven Park which occurred on NOvember 24Th, 1992. Join with the
Long Island UFO. Network and its members in a candle light vigil
at Suffolk County Police Headquarters to protest the massive
cover-up surrounding the two UFO. crashes that occurred here
that night on Long Island. Let the powers that be hear your
voice as it is raised in protest at our nation's policy of
secrecy surrounding the U.F.O. phenomenon that has been in
effect for more than 47 years.

Let our police and local county government officials know that
they are involved in the cover-up when they refuse to admit the
events that surround the South Haven Park UFO crashes when they
maintain that nothing happened.

Speak up now, speak up strong and loud and clear that the people
won't buy the government lies anymore. Let them know we want the
truth now!!!

For further information:

The Long Island U.F.O. Network Inc.
P.O. BOX 1692
Riverhead, New York, 11901
Hotline (516) 286 3212"

-----

This is just one of several flyers and reports which John sent
to me. I hope John is released at some point in the near future.
IF he is, I doubt that he will be interested in investigating
UFO's again. I think they have put the fear of "Big Brother"
into him. They have burned their authority into his mind by
countless shock treatments, etc. John has been treated as a sub-
human by a system which allegedly is: "for the people and by the
people." I guess John has proven to all who know him that the
freedoms we think we have are strictly an illusion! Step on the
wrong toes and you disappear! For all practical purposes, John
Ford has disappeared! If we can help John, then let us do so.
This fund for his defense has been around for several years, but
I have yet to hear that anything has been done to free John
Ford.

Any additional information along these lines would be truly
appreciated.

REgards, Mike








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   Sep > Sep 9

                       Re: Radiation? Burn - Stanford

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker@earthlink.net>
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 22:52:17 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 08:30:18 -0400
Subject: Re: Radiation? Burn - Stanford


>From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO <hbccufo@telus.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 12:08:37 -0700
>Subject: Radiation? Burn


>Gosh, I just received a photo of a radiation burn - or burn of
>some type - which showed up after the missing time event in
>Kelowna, B.C. The photo shows a very bad burn located at the
>very bottom of the woman's tail bone, or right above her
>bottom.

>I have written back as the photo shows some of her buttocks and
>I do not want to post without permission first. If permission is
>granted I will post the photo as it is a very important part to
>this case. I'll keep everyone informed.

>I don't know if I posted this note before or not. But I have
>another couple who saw the lights on July 31, 2002 around the
>same time the women had their missing time event. This brings
>the total witnesses to 6 who saw lights in the women's area.


Hi Brian,

Interesting, indeed! I'd like to compare this 'burn' to things
I've seem in cases I've been involved with. I don't need the
woman's name, and I doubt she'd mind her upper rear end being
revealed anonymously. :) Could you send me the image with a
guarantee not to circulate it?


Thanks,
Ray Stanford


"You know my method. It is founded upon the observance of
trifles." -- Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery









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   Sep > Sep 9

                     'Alien-Hunters' Gaining New Respect

From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 08:32:23 +0100
Fwd Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 09:11:36 -0400
Subject: 'Alien-Hunters' Gaining New Respect


Morning All

MSNBC has a new article on SETI that I thought you might be
interested in:


http://www.msnbc.com/news/960462.asp?cp1=1


In an infinite universe, infinitely anything is possible.
Sean Jones
http://www.tedric.demon.co.uk/






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               Re: Rendlesham - Latest UFO Theory Dismissed -

From: David Clarke <cd292@crazydiamonds.fsnet.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 08:36:37 +0100
Fwd Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 09:13:50 -0400
Subject: Re: Rendlesham - Latest UFO Theory Dismissed -


>From: Eustaquio Andrea Patounas <socex@terra.com.br>
>To: UFO UpDates -Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 18:06:38 -0300
>Subject: Rendlesham - Latest UFO Theory Dismissed

>Source: East Anglian Daily Times - UK

>A researcher has dismissed a theory that the world famous
>Rendlesham UFO was nothing more than a prank played by an
>American serviceman.

<snip>

>Kevin Conde, who retired as a technical sergeant, stated he
>wanted to play a prank on one of his colleagues. He apparently
>drove a battered 1979 Plymouth Volare standard issue American
>police car down the runway, where he stuck red and green lenses
>on the spotlights, switched on his loudspeaker and drove around
>in circles on the runway in the fog while flashing his car
>lights.

>Ms Bruni said Mr Conde was unsure of the date, but said it was
>foggy on the night and he had played his loudspeaker. But, said
>Ms Bruni, there had not been any fog reported on the runway or
>surrounding Woodbridge air base and the UFOs were completely
>silent.


Eustaquio, List,

The claim that "there had not been any fog reported on the
runway or surrounding Woodbridge air base" at the time of the
UFO incidents is a canard.

Ian Ridpath has copies of the hourly meteorological reports made
by the tower at RAF Woodbridge. They record fog and visibility
of about 2.5 miles from the evening of 27 December until dawn on
28 December 1980.

Halt's call to Eastern Radar for confirmation of the UFO
sightings, patched via Bentwaters tower, is recorded in the
Watton logbook as 0325 Z on 28 December 1980, whilst he was in
Rendlesham forest.

Although Halt makes no mention of fog during his expedition, the
record suggests there was a localised fog, which is often
encountered in the area. The fact that he was able to see the
lights he did suggests that if fog was present, it was not
generalised.

The log also records that 24 hours later, ie early on the 29th
there was fog again and 8 eights cloud cover.


Best,

Dave Clarke







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                   HBCC UFO: Missing Time Update & Photos

From: HBCC UFO <hbccufo@telus.net>
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 01:28:08 -0700
Fwd Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 09:16:00 -0400
Subject: HBCC UFO: Missing Time Update & Photos


Kelowna, British Columbia - Missing Time Update

Photos of burn mark on one of the witnesses. Permission granted
to HBCC UFO to post photos.

Please be warned that the pictures are graphic and may be
distruerbing to some. I have not cut anything from the photos. I
left them the way I received them as it is a very important part
to this case.

Photos can be viewed along with the full report at:

http://www3.telus.net/public/wilbur8/kelowna_missing_time.htm


Update:

I interviewed the second witness who I have named "Linda" in my
report. She explained her account of the events which she
remembers. It wasn't until the next morning when she became
aware of the burnt marks on her lower spine and of course the
problems with her nose bleeding badly. After her stay with her
friend, who was also involved with the missing time event, she
made a visit to her doctor when she arrived home due to the pain
radiating from her lower back. Her doctor looked at it and was
baffled. The doctor said if he didn't know any better the burn
marks looked like radiation burns. Tests were performed and
Linda was treated. The wound eventually started to clear up, but
for some unknown reason, which again surprised her doctor the
wound took a turn for the worse which is shown in picture number
#1.

As of today, September 9, 2003 two picture were taken, and in
both photos the burn marks seem to be clearing at this time.

Below are three pictures I received from the ladies who had the
missing time in Kelowna, British Columbia. The name of the lady
who shows the burn mark is fictitious for obvious reasons. In my
report above I called her Linda and was the passenger in the car
that night.

In the first photo, the wound had healed up somewhat, but it
took a turn for the worse and the results are shown in picture
number #1. I was told that the doctor is stumped due to not
knowing why the wound will not heal. Also the doctor reports
that he still does not know what caused it.

In the second photo taken today, September 8, 2003, early
morning it shows that it seems to be again healing up.

The third and last photo, taken today, September 8, 2003 at
10:50 p.m. seems to look the same with no changes from the early
morning shot. Let us hope the wound completely heals up.

My many thanks to the ladies for providing these pictures to a
very important event. I would also like to add that if others
have been through this, or are going through a similar
experience I would like to hear from them. It seems to help
others knowing they are not a lone in all of this.


Brian Vike

Director HBCC UFO Research
Canadian Toll Free UFO Hotline 1 866 262 1989 - Free call.
Phone/Fax 1 250 845 2189
Editor: Canadian Communicator - Paranormal Magazine
email: hbccufo@telus.net
Website: http://www3.telus.net/public/wilbur8/hbcc_ufo_research.htm






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              Re: Subanthropic Principle & The Undetectability

From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais@wanadoo.fr>
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 10:45:57 +0200
Fwd Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 09:20:23 -0400
Subject: Re: Subanthropic Principle & The Undetectability


>From: Eric Wenger <wenger@uisoftware.com>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>(by way of UFO
UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>)
>Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 20:35:03 +0200
>Subject: Re: Subanthropic Principle & The Undetectability Conjecture

>>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2003 00:04:09 -0400
>>Subject: Re: Subanthropic Principle & The Undetectability Conjecture
>
><snip>


>Dear Bruce, One thing that always puzzled me in all the
>abduction reports is the total lack of discussion or interest
>from the presumed Aliens about Art, Music, Philosophy or
>anything related to human culture in general.

>(If somebody has some evidence of such an interest I would
>really like to know)


To Eric, Bruce and the List

That's an interesting question!

I suggest that we enlarge it this way: who are the aliens that
we are talking about? The literature of contacts and abductions,
and the vast litterature of myths and religions all suggest that
we have been "visited" by many different ET civilizations. Our
little Earth is very complex. I don't see any reason why it
would be different in outer space. I suggest that some of them
are in interested in our culture, but that they remain hidden so
far for some reasons. Perhaps one good reason is that we are not
ready to learn what kind of contatcts we had with them, since a
very long time. Another one might be that there are conflicts in
space, just like on Earth.....

>Humanity can hardly be defined only by its genes.

>They might have a need or a use for our DNA but I would have
>strong doubts about their love or interest in Humanity as a
>cultural specie.

>Even the way they are presumably collecting genetic material
>doesn't make much sense: Why would they need such elaborate and
>bizarre procedures when an advanced civilization could easily
>recover that DNA from hair or dead skin cells in a much more
>subtle and non-invasive ways. A very advanced one could probably
>Synthesize anything they would want from scratch.

>All this points to my previous hypothesis (if they exits)

>-They are not very advanced

>-They are not in the business of "saving us", at least as a culture.

I think you are going a bit too fast in you speculations here.
Jacques Vallee said about the same thing in his books, that they
were poor doctors and that the abduction scenarios did not make
sense. His argumentation aimed at putting in doubt the
extraterrestrial presence.

But his arguments, to me, were weak, especially the medical one.
We don't really know what they are doing, and who is doing what.

BTW, you mentioned the opinion of Dr Leir. Having just spent
a whole week with him in Paris, I can add some more.

He told me that he is close to the ideas of Budd Hopkins, much
more than those of John Mack on one side, and David Jacobs on
the other. He thinks that Mack has an ambiguous discourse, never
admitting clearly the materiality of the abductions. He is not
too interested in the study of implants, for instance.

He thinks that there may be some truth in the theory of Jacobs,
but that he is pushing it too far, in his second book "The
Threat". My impression was that Roger Leir has a good approach
of the abduction question, which I share, like probably many
others.

So, let's not try to have all the answers too fast.


Gildas Bourdais







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               Re: Rendlesham - Latest UFO Theory Dismissed -

From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 10:46:40 -0300
Fwd Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 10:48:56 -0400
Subject: Re: Rendlesham - Latest UFO Theory Dismissed -


>From: David Clarke <cd292@crazydiamonds.fsnet.co.uk>
>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 08:36:37 +0100
>Subject: Re: Rendlesham - Latest UFO Theory Dismissed

>The log also records that 24 hours later, ie early on the 29th
>there was fog again and 8 eights cloud cover.

Hi David,

That would be eight/tenths cloud cover, right?


Don Ledger






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                                 Photo Info?

From: Vicente-Juan Ballester Olmos <ballesterolmos@yahoo.es>
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 16:01:31 +0200 (CEST)
Fwd Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 10:52:48 -0400
Subject: Photo Info?


Hello List Members,

In an on-line feature article at the 'Detroit News' web site:

http://www.detnews.com/history/ufo/ufo.htm

and if you click on 'Click for More Photos', you will see ten
images. If someone is aware of the date, witness name and
details of photograph #5 (UFO landed on Harrick Road, near
Clare, MI), I will appreciate receiving the information.


Thanks and regards,

V-J







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                Re: HBCC UFO: Missing Time Update & Photos -

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker@earthlink.net>
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 10:53:42 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 20:20:46 -0400
Subject: Re: HBCC UFO: Missing Time Update & Photos -


>From: HBCC UFO <hbccufo@telus.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 01:28:08 -0700
>Subject: HBCC UFO: Missing Time Update - Photos

>Kelowna, British Columbia - Missing Time Update

>Photos of burn mark on one of the witnesses. Permission granted
>to HBCC UFO to post photos.

>Please be warned that the pictures are graphic and may be
>distruerbing to some. I have not cut anything from the photos. I
>left them the way I received them as it is a very important part
>to this case.

>Photos can be viewed along with the full report at:

>http://www3.telus.net/public/wilbur8/kelowna_missing_time.htm

>Brian Vike

<snip>

>Director HBCC UFO Research
>Canadian Toll Free UFO Hotline 1 866 262 1989 - Free call.
>Phone/Fax 1 250 845 2189
>Editor: Canadian Communicator - Paranormal Magazine
>email: hbccufo@telus.net
>Website: http://www3.telus.net/public/wilbur8/hbcc_ufo_research.htm

Thanks, Brian, for sharing that photographic look at the 'burn'.

What I am about to say should not be mistaken as a comment as to
whether the injury is the result of something that happened in
an abduction or not, being only my interpretation of the nature
(not the cause, per se) of the injury shown in the photo:

To my perception, the injury looks more as an abrasion of the
kind one might get from, say, someone riding on the passenger
seat of a motorcycle with that part of the body pressing against
the upright to keep the extra rider from slipping off the back.
 In such case the abrasion might be caused by two factors acting
simultaneously:  (1) Rough clothing, and, (2) the vibration of
the motorcycle rubbing that clothing against that part of the
body, as it presses back against the upright.

I'm not saying the injury happened that way, but am suggesting
that one does not necessarily have to evoke alien abduction
injury to account for that particular type of damage, when
injury by a very prosaic cause could seemingly account for it.
 A very similar injury happened to a friend of mine down in
Texas, years ago, when he was 'goofing off' while horseback
riding. He turned around in the saddle and rode the horse while
sitting backward for much longer than was prudent and sustained
very similar damage due to the saddle horn vibrating against his
rough jeans, which abraded the upper part of his butt, just as
we see in those photos.  Because he could not run around naked,
clothing kept re-abrading the healing wound, extending the
healing to several weeks.

Sometimes such injuries resemble a burn simply because the upper
layer of skin is caused to separate from the lower ones, and
serum fills the cavity at places, creating a blister, which some
might call a burn (as in a 'rope burn', for example).

Although there would be healing going on, because of the
injury's location, every time the person sits (Ouch!) much time
on even a chair or sofa, the abrasion would likely become
partially abraded again, setting back the healing process.

The foregoing does not, of course, preclude the possibility that
this is an abduction-related injury due to unknown causes, but
is intended only as food for thought in evaluating the evidence.

I commend you, Brian, for your tireless effort to investigate
and report the incredible amount of seeming UFO events in your
neck of the woods.  We need more like you.


Ray Stanford

"You know my method.  It is founded upon the observance of
trifles." -- Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery







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               Re: Rendlesham - Latest UFO Theory Dismissed -

From: David Clarke <cd292@crazydiamonds.fsnet.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 16:12:42 +0100
Fwd Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 20:27:39 -0400
Subject: Re: Rendlesham - Latest UFO Theory Dismissed -


>From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 10:46:40 -0300
>Subject: Re: Rendlesham - Latest UFO Theory Dismissed

Hi Don,

>That would be eight/tenths cloud cover, right?

I'm sure that's correct.

The information I have from Ian's log is, for 29 December "fog
[and] 8 eighths cloud cover... which would have made sightings
of stars impossible."

I guess that means it was pretty foggy, as opposed to the night
Halt made his expedition which appears to have been clear with
localised fog.


Best,

Dave C







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               Re: Rendlesham - Latest UFO Theory Dismissed -

From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 08:49:19 -0700
Fwd Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 20:29:46 -0400
Subject: Re: Rendlesham - Latest UFO Theory Dismissed -


>From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 10:46:40 -0300
>Subject: Re: Rendlesham - Latest UFO Theory Dismissed

>>From: David Clarke <cd292@crazydiamonds.fsnet.co.uk>
>>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 08:36:37 +0100
>>Subject: Re: Rendlesham - Latest UFO Theory Dismissed

>>The log also records that 24 hours later, ie early on the 29th
>>there was fog again and 8 eights cloud cover.

>Hi David,

>That would be eight/tenths cloud cover, right?

>Don Ledger

That's complete cloud cover. However, the 2.5 mile visibility
along with fog does suggest that the fog was spotty.


Jim







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                Re: Picnic Island in Honey Harbour, Ontario -

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker@earthlink.net>
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 12:24:20 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 20:31:24 -0400
Subject: Re: Picnic Island in Honey Harbour, Ontario -


>From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO <hbccufo@telus.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 12:39:17 -0700
>Subject: Picnic Island in Honey Harbour, Ontario

>Here is another report for August 31, 2003 which just came in
>today. It is a report which describes a bolide/fireball
>witnessed by many over Ontario, Canada.

>Picnic Island in Honey Harbour, Ontario

>Date: August 31, 2003
>Time: 12:30 a.m. (00:30)

>Brian,

>My friend (name deleted by HBCC UFO) sent me your message after
>I told him about something I had seen early Sunday Aug. 31st
>around 12:30 am. We have a home on Picnic Island in Honey
>Harbour, Ontario. At 12:30 AM my daughter and I were out for a
>short walk when the entire park lit up with a brilliant bright
>light. The light had a slight green glow to it and I thought it
>was a car coming up the road with strange headlights until I
>turned around and noticed an orange/green ball of light above
>our heads. As soon as we looked at it, it exploded directly
>above the trees beside us, when it exploded it was like a
>firework exploding in all directions with orange balls of fire.
>I did hear a sound that is hard to explain, I believe what we
>saw was a bolide. I spoke to several people around the park who
>had seen it and everyone saw a ball of light explode and several
>heard the explosion. None of us saw any coloured lights on the
>object.

<snip>

Hi Brian,

The coloration (orange and green) sounds more like the re-entry
colors of some satellites, instead of the usual colors
associated with bolides.

Green, you see, is associated with the element copper, and is an
element essentially missing from all documented cosmic bodies
that have reached earth's surface and been accepted
scientifically as meteorites. While Harvey Nininger, the late
and pioneer meteorite researcher, published a photo of a blob of
copper that had reportedly fallen from the sky years before man-
made satellites, it has never been accepted as having been of
cosmic origin by meteoriticists, although of interest to
Forteans.

The re-entering satellites my project staff and I saw when we
were spending long hours out at night in Texas, each shown
orange and green (some white, too) as the predominant colors. I
have seen a couple of 'Kelly green' fireballs back in the 'green
fireball' days of the 1950s, but none since.

Thus, depending on the direction of the orange and green
fireball to which your report refers, I suspect a re-entering
satellite as the most likely source. The after-explosion
"orange balls of fire" likewise make me favor the re-entering
satellite explanation.


Ray Stanford

"You know my method. It is founded upon the observance of
trifles." -- Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery







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                   Re: More Bentwaters Information - Pope

From: Nick Pope <nick@popemod.freeserve.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 19:10:43 +0100
Fwd Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 20:36:35 -0400
Subject: Re: More Bentwaters Information - Pope


>From: David Clarke <cd292@crazydiamonds.fsnet.co.uk>
>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 16:28:53 +0100
>Subject: Re: More Bentwaters Information

>>From: Nick Pope <nick@popemod.freeserve.co.uk>
>>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 19:18:36 +0100
>>Subject: Re: More Bentwaters Information

<snip>

>>Conde has previously stated to James Easton that he was
>>accompanied while he carried out his practical joke (I do not
>>believe that any names or other details have been given). He
>>stated that he would only have been accompanied during an
>>exercise or alert. So that looked like case closed, because
>>there wasn't an alert or exercise at the time of the UFO
>>incidents. Conde was honest enough to tell Easton he'd made a
>>mistake, and that his prank could have had nothing to do with
>>the case.

>>But then Easton remembered something he'd seen in Peter Robbins
>>and Larry Warren's book, Left At East Gate. One of the
>>photographs in the book is a picture Larry claimed to have taken
>>on the morning of December 28, 1980. It was a picture of the
>>main gate at RAF Bentwaters. A sign was clearly visible, on
>>which the words "Alert Condition" could be seen. Easton told
>>Conde about this, and Conde then changed his mind, saying this
>>showed he could have been present during the UFO incidents, and
>>that his alleged prank might therefore still explain some part
>>of what took place.

>>I believe that all this was based on a misunderstanding, because
>>the bottom of the sign is obscured. Actually, the sign will not
>>have said "Alert Condition" only. Underneath the words "Alert
>>Condition" would have been a descriptor of what the Alert
>>Condition actually was (MOD establishments use ones such as
>>"Black", "Black Special" etc). To be fair, this isn't something
>>I would expect Easton to have know. But I'm surprised Conde
>>didn't pick it up.

<snip>

>It should not be impossible to establish whether there was an
>"alert condition" at RAF Bentwaters-Woodbridge on or about 28
>December 1980. Contemporary records should be able to establish
>this to everyone's satisfaction. Given your position in MOD I
>would have thought you would be able to access this information
>on behalf of the UFO community.

<snip>

Dave and List,

The fact that I'm employed by the MOD means that it would be
inappropriate for me to ask this question. Now that I no longer
have any official responsibility for the UK's UFO project, this
might be regarded as an abuse of position, even though I would,
in strictness, be asking the question as a private citizen. It's a
question of perception.

As you say though, this should be a simple matter to resolve. A
brief request to the USAFE Office of Public Affairs at Ramstein
AFB should clear the matter up once and for all. Remember that
as I explained in my earlier post (see above), the question
isn't whether there was or wasn't an alert condition, it's what
the alert condition was. I recommend that to cover all the
bases, so to speak, the question should mention both Bentwaters
and Woodbridge, and cover the dates 25 - 30 December 1980.


Best wishes,

Nick Pope







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                Re: John Ford Redux (SDI 6 September, 2003) -

From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com>
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 11:37:40 -0700
Fwd Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 20:38:33 -0400
Subject: Re: John Ford Redux (SDI 6 September, 2003) -


>From: Michael Christol <spachopr@bellsouth.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 19:56:16 -0500
>Subject: Re: John Ford Redux (SDI 6 September, 2003)

>>From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2003 09:56:55 -0500
>>Subject: John Ford Redux (SDI 6 September, 2003)

><snip>

>I know John Ford. I exchanged info with him and helped spread
>his investigation into the crash of an alien space craft near
>Moriches Bay on September 28th,1989...through out the MUFONET
>Back bone, prior to the Internet, via BBS"s, (Bulletin Board
>Systems.)


For the record, Mr. Ford also attempted to curry favorable
reporting from ParaNet at the time of the Moriches Bay
'incident'. We chose to pass. Let history judge our decision.


==JJS==







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                       UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 8 Number 34

From: John Hayes <webmaster@ufoinfo.com>
Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 16:36:19 +0100
Fwd Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 20:42:14 -0400
Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 8 Number 34


Posted on behalf of Joseph Trainor.

<Masinaigan@aol.com>
==========================

      UFO ROUNDUP
Volume 8, Number 34
September 10, 2003
Editor: Joseph Trainor

E-mail: <Masinaigan@aol.com>
Website: http://www.ufoinfo.com/roundup/


STRANGE DEATHS REPORTED
IN MOTHMAN'S HOMETOWN

      An unusual "death flap" occurred during the last week
of August in Point Pleasant, West Virginia (population
4,637), best known as the "hometown" of the mysterious
entity called Mothman.
      Four people died under unusual circumstances, all
within close proximity to the ruins of the old Silver
Bridge, which collapsed on December 15, 1967.  The
bridge's collapse was foretold by Mothman, and the strange
events in Point Pleasant during that time became the
subject of the 2002 film, The Mothman Prophecies.
      "The body of a Kentucky man, who apparently drowned,
has been found after authorities drained a Mason County
pond."
      "The body of Ricky J. Doss, 37, of Greenup, Ky.
(population 1,198) was removed Wednesday," August 27,
2003, "from the pond at the Old Time Camp Ground, said
state police Sgt. E.B. Starcher of the Point Pleasant
detachment."
      "Doss and a companion had been camping at the site
when he went into the pond about 2:45 a.m. Tuesday (August
26, 2003) and did not surface, Starcher said."
      "Divers and recovery crews from several area
volunteer fire departments searched the pond Tuesday to no
avail."
      "By draining the pond, cadaver-sniffing dogs were
able to locate the body, which has been sent to the state
medical examiner for an autopsy, he said."
      Then an elderly couple were killed in an auto
accident on Highway 35, near the site of the old Silver
Bridge.
      "Charles W. Black, 84, of Henderson, W.V. (population
325), a former resident and business owner of Jackson
County, Ohio, and Ella Fletcher, his close friend and
companion for several years, died in an automobile
accident on Tuesday afternoon near Point Pleasant."
      "Charles, a World War II veteran of the Army Air
Corps (predecessor of today's U.S. Air Force--J.T.) and
former mayor of the town of Hartford, W.V., and also the
owner of a farm equipment dealership in Jackson, was a
1937 graduate of Oak Hill High School."
      "Ella Mae Bechtle Fletcher, 75, of Henderson, W.V.,
was a retired employee of Holzer Hospital in Gallipolis,
Ohio.  She was born September 28, 1927 in Pennsylvania,
the daughter of the late James T. and Evelyn (Earnest)
Bechtle."
      The fourth death in Point Pleasant was reportedly a
suicide.  "Robert Sanders, 44, of Point Pleasant, was dead
on arrival at Pleasant Valley Hospital.  He was born
February 28, 1959 in Mason County, W.V., son of the late
Leon Allen Sanders and Carol Louise See Parsons.  He was
self-employed as a drywaller."
      Curiously, Sanders' father, Leon Allen Sanders, was
one of the people killed when the Silver Bridge collapsed
on December 15, 1967.  (See the Point Pleasant, W.V. Daily
Register for August 28, 2003, "Pond drained; man's body
found" and "Two individuals dead in a head-on crash on
Highway 35."  Many thanks to Loren Coleman for these
newspaper articles.)


CHUPACABRA KILLS 50 HENS
NEAR RAUCO IN CHILE

      "Without any apparent explanation, the owner of 50
hens was startled to find his animals dead inside and
outside a henhouse in the Quete Quete sector of Curico, on
the road to Rauco" in Chile.
      "Scattered over a broad space, the hens were joined
by a turkey and a rooster that shared a small coop that
was also forced."
      "The owner cannot explain how the creature--which was
initially said to be the legendary Chupacabra--could have
entered the pen and then the henhouse, leaving in its wake
50 hens in very poor conditions, some of them even torn to
shreds, although without the characteristic (puncture)
wound found on animals attacked by the 'Chupacabras'."
      "The owner could not explain how the events occurred.
Only when they arose in the morning did they realize that
50 hens were dead and that a scant few remained alive,
without them or their watchdogs ever becoming aware of a
disturbance."
      "'I have no idea what happened here.  When I woke up
in the morning, I found them dead, nothing more.  About 50
hens died; and there are roosters and turkeys.  We found
nothing.  There were 60 hens here and about 10 are left.
This is the first time it's happened.  I heard nothing;
the dogs didn't bark, and my wife didn't hear any noise.
The hens were scattered all over, and I gathered them
here...there were a few around here, and the turkey was
over there,' said Sergio Gonzalez Nunez, owner of the
slain birds."  (See the Chilean newspaper La Prensa for
August 30, 2003, "Chupacabra allegedly appears in Quete
Quete."  Muchas gracias a Scott Corrales y Liliana Nunez
para eso articulo de diario.)


UFOs SEEN IN SUFFOLK, UK

      "UFO investigators are targetting Suffolk in their
quest to find alien life."
      "The county has become the focus for alien hunters,
in a case worthy of X-Files agents Mulder and Scully,
after a strange sighting of an apparently alien craft in
the skies over east Suffolk."
      "Eagle-eyed residents living along the banks of the
River Orwell may have witnessed a close encounter of the
third kind if they had glanced up at the starry sky."
      "A strange yellow D-shaped object was spotted
overhead by a man in his garden at Freston," Suffolk, UK.
      "He watched in wonder as the UFO changed shape before
it altered course and flew off at around 11 p.m. on
(Tuesday) August 5 (2003)."
      "But instead of phoning home, like Steven Spielberg's
E.T., the man called the operator, who put through his
call to Contact, an organisation based in Oxfordshire that
records and researches UFO sightings."
      "Contact spokesman Michael Sopher said, 'It will be
interesting to see if anyone else saw the same thing.'"
      "'Any sightings over the Ipswich area are of great
interest to us due to the events at Rendlesham.  New
evidence recently released by the government admits that
this event was a proper UFO landing.'"
      "Rendlesham is reknowned worldwide for the event in
1980 when American airmen claimed a UFO landed in the
forest at their airbase."
      "He added, 'In East Anglia, reported sightings differ
from other areas.  There are lots of reports of strange
objects flying inland from the sea and then back again.'"
      "'There was a wave of UFO sightings in Birmingham in
June (2003).  Many people reported seeing lights
zigzagging in the clear sky near the airport.'"
      "'At the same time, there was a geomagnetic storm
which, we believe, causes people to be more spontaneous
and tends to make people who see something more likely to
report it.'"  (See the Ipswich Evening Star for August 30,
2003, "UFO sighting excites alien hunters."  Many thanks
to Robert Fischer for this newspaper article.)


GREEN FIREBALL SIGHTED
IN TROUT LAKE, WASH.

      "At approximately 11 p.m. on Sunday, August 31, 2003,
a very large fireball, green in color, came in from the
west and looked as if it hit the ground or landed on the
eastern slope of Mount Adams" near Trout Lake, Washington,
located about 30 miles (48 kilometers) northeast of
Portland, Oregon.
      The event "was witnessed by 15 people present at a
skywatch.  Then we saw other sightings that did not match
any known satellites" and these objects "exhibited strange
behavior.  One in particular had a brilliant red point of
light on the front of the object.  It did not strobe and
was very high, most likely outside of Earth's atmosphere."
      The previous day, Saturday, "August 30th, a large
triangle was spotted.  It seemed to make a few course
corrections and angle changes as it flew over.  One
witness said it had form to it.  Most could only see the
three lights, one on each corner."
      "We have some of these large triangles on film.  When
CSETI visited the ranch, we had over 30 people witness and
film them, as well.  I have seen them at treetop level.
They have form; look metallic; yet are not totally
physical.  They flashed a bank of red lights at the tail
as they flew over."  (Many thanks to James C. Gilliland
for these reports.)


CROP CIRCLES DISCOVERED
NEAR HILLSBORO, OHIO

      On Friday, August 29, 2003, paranormal investigator
Kenny Young visited a newly-found large crop circle
formation near Hillsboro, Ohio (population 6,368), a small
city on Route 50 about 40 miles (64 kilometers) east-
northeast of Cincinnati.
      "The exact location I could not disclose out of
respect for the continuing investigation and also out of
respect for a neighboring resident and possible owner of
the property, who has stated that she doesn't want 'a
convention of UFO nutcases' destroying all her soybeans,"
Young reported.
      He described the formation as "an oval-shaped
flattened area accompanied by several projecting 'spikes'
that arch around it."
      The formation is less than 30 miles (48 kilometers)
from Hillsboro and is in a field of soybeans with plants
standing "between waist and shoulder height."
      The site has also been visited by cerealogist Jeffrey
Wilson and investigator Don Blessing of MUFON-Ohio.  (Many
thanks to Kenny Young for this report.)


BLACK HELICOPTER BUZZES
WILTSHIRE SKYWATCHERS

      "A couple have spoken of their terror as they were
buzzed by a military helicopter as they held an evening
countryside vigil for the planet Mars."
      "Tom and Kerry Blower of Lockeridge," near East
Kennett, Wiltshire, UK, "said they were terrified as they
found themselves the target of close inspection by an Army
helicopter."
      "Ms. Blower, a researcher into the various phenomena
in the Marlborough area, and her husband, Tom, a landscape
gardener, held their planet vigil on Tuesday last week
(August 26, 2003)."
      "A military spokesman said, 'The Army can confirm
there were a number of helicopters in the vicinity.  If a
pilot did fly too low, we are sorry, but it can be
difficult to spot parked cars in the dark.  If a formal
complaint is made to the Ministry of Defence, it will be
investigated fully.'"
      On Thursday, September 4, 2003, Kerry Blower was
interviewed by researcher Linda Moulton Howe.  During the
course of the interview, Ms. Blower reported, "More
amazing information today, Linda.  Someone saw my write-up
in the paper and contacted me.  I went to see them.  The
couple concerned live in Bottlesford," just south of East
Field, near Woodborough Hill.
      "'They are a couple in their mid-60s called Mr. and
Mrs. Hyde.  They were in their house on the 26th August
(the same night as mine and Tom's incident--K.B.) when
they heard a helicopter approaching.  To their horror, it
hovered just three feet from their chimney stack.  Mr.
Hyde ran outside to shout at them.  The helicopter was
black with guns on either side.  It moved forwards and
backwards in the same spot for a few minutes.  It totally
horrified Mrs. Hyde.  The whole house shuddered, and Mrs.
Hyde was too frightened to go outside.  It was 6:30 in the
evening, just a few hours before our incident."
      Strangely enough, this was Kerry Blower's second
encounter with a black helicopter.  The first came in 1996
when she was investigating a crop circle formation shaped
like a DNA spiral at East Kennett, Wilts.  (See the
Gazette and Herald of Devizes, Wilts. for September 4,
2003, "Mars seekers are buzzed."  Many thanks to Robert
Fischer and Linda Moulton Howe for this news story.)


THE DOVER MYSTERY

      A second mysterious electrical blackout was reported
in Dover, UK on Sunday, August 31, 2003, just 72 hours
after the widespread outage that knocked out London's rail
and subway service.
      In his newsletter, Free Life Commentary, Sean Gabb
reported, "Last Friday evening, the 29th August, my wife
and I had Dr. Tame and Rebecca Baty over to dinner--as
ever, a most enjoyable occasion.  After they left, I
turned on the wireless (radio in the USA--J.T.) for the
news and heard of a security alert in Dover, which is
about 7 miles (11 kilometers) down the coast from where we
live.  According to the report, the authorities had closed
the port and both motorways into town.  Traffic was being
parked on the motorways outside the exclusion zone."
      "Out to sea, all ferries had been stopped, and the
passengers were reported to by happily making calls from
their mobile telephones and consuming their cheap
cigarettes and alcohol."
      "The following morning (Saturday, August 30, 2003), I
turned on the news again and heard that the alert was over
and Dover was back to normal."  Later that day, "Dr. Tame
cycled over for coffee.  Afterward, we went for a walk
along the seafront.  It was a clear day and we could see
across the English Channel to the French hills behind
Calais."
      "Between the straits of Dover we could see dozens of
ships all standing at anchor--passenger ferries, cargo
ships and much smaller traffic.  Whatever the media might
choose to report, Dover was clearly not back to normal."
      "The next afternoon (Sunday, August 31, 2003) Dr.
Tame called and said he had stood on the seafront in front
of his town, watching heavily armed military aeroplanes
flying slowly towards Dover.  Mrs. Gabb dissuaded me from
getting into my car and driving off to Dover to see for
myself what was happening."
      "At about 9 p.m., there was a long power cut
(blackout) between where she (Mrs. Gabb) was and Dover."
      On Monday, September 1, 2003, "she called from the
railway station to report black naval ships racing up and
down the Channel--one of them with a helicopter pad.  All
day, I have heard (RAF) jets flying overhead."
      However, no explanation for the heightened military
activity in Dover has been forthcoming.  (See Free Life
Commentary No. 111 for September 1, 2003.  Many thanks to
Sonya Porter for forwarding this news story.)

      Well, that's it for this week.  Join us in seven days
for more UFO, Fortean and paranormal news from around the
planet Earth, brought to you by "the paper that goes home-
-UFO Roundup."  See you next time!

UFO ROUNDUP: Copyright 2003 by Masinaigan Productions, all
rights reserved.  Readers may post news items from UFO
Roundup on their Web sites or in news groups provided that
they credit the newsletter and its editor by name and list
the date of issue in which the item first appeared.

E-Mail Reports to: Joseph Trainor <Masinaigan@aol.com>
or use the Sighting Report Form at:

http://www.ufoinfo.com/forms/form_sighting.htm

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   Sep > Sep 9

                 UFO Disclosure Gets 3 Pages In UK Newspaper

From: Dave Haith <visions@ntlworld.com>
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 18:15:08 +0100
Fwd Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 20:46:36 -0400
Subject: UFO Disclosure Gets 3 Pages In UK Newspaper


Well I've done my bit for UFO Disclosure today! I shall expect
and free ride to at least to the nearest star system - or a
painful abduction depending on how 'they' view the publicity!

My area newspaper in the UK used three pages of UFO articles I
wrote to boost a UFO Disclosure meeting here on Monday Sept 15.

The first page used a massive Close Encounters of the Third Kind
picture with the predictable headline Is There Anybody Out
There?

In the double page spread of The Big Feature the headline across
an actual UFO photo of a disc over trees, read 'Fact or Fiction?
The real life X Files' with the following stories about the
local meeting and the Disclosure Project plus a double sighting
- one lasting four hours - I wrote up about a local man Ron
Lucas.


Cheers

Dave Haith
visions@ntlworld.com


Below is what the paper printed:

-----

The day the massive UFO cover-up cracked open will be re-lived
on video in Bournemouth next week. (Sept 15, 2003)

At a Washington press conference US military personnel shocked
the world relating their experiences and knowledge of extra-
terrestrials.

Hundreds of thousands watched the record-breaking National Press
Club event broadcast over the internet but thousands more
couldn't log on because of an overload.

Despite subsequent media coverage round the world, there are
still millions who never knew it even happened.

So now at 7.30 pm on September 15 a remarkable two hour video of
the UFO Disclosure Project event is to be shown at St Peter's
School, Holdenhurst Avenue. Bournemouth.

The video is being presented by top UK UFO researcher Ananda
Sirisena who will also speak and answer questions at the =A35 a
ticket meeting planned to last almost four hours.

The Disclosure Project press conference was organised by US
hospital emergency physician Dr Steven Greer who persuaded 20
military, government, intelligence and corporate witnesses to
present compelling testimony regarding extra-terrestrial UFOs
and also the existence of advanced energy and propulsion
technologies sequestered in classified government ' black
operations' projects.

Since that press conference day in 2001 more than hundreds more
official 'whistleblowers' have emerged, many documented in
Greer's book Disclosure: Military and Government Witnesses
Reveal the Greatest Secrets in Modern History.

Pushing for congressional hearings on UFOs, Dr Greer has also
met with and provided briefings for senior members of
government, military and intelligence operations in the US and
around the world including senior CIA officials, Joint Chiefs of
Staff, White House staff, senior members of Congress, senior
United Nations leadership and diplomats and senior military
officials in the UK and Europe.

Ananda said: "The playing of the tape will get its message
across very strongly. I want to urge members of the public to
come and hear for themselves, make up their own minds. The
Disclosure Project is not about any one individual but about all
the witnesses who have come forward already, numbering over 100
and with 300 others waiting in the wings hoping for immunity
from prosecution."

He added: "As a representative for the Disclosure Project I want
more people to be aware of the reality of the UFO phenomenon and
its implications for humanity. It impinges on our science,
religion and politics and has been ingrained in our history for
centuries."

A recent 90 page report by the French military titled 'UFOs and
Defense: What Should We Prepare For?' concluded that "numerous
manifestations observed by reliable witnesses could be the work
of craft of extraterrestrial origin" and that, in fact, the best
explanation is "the extraterrestrial hypothesis." Although not
categorically proven, "strong presumptions exist in its favour
and if it is correct, it is loaded with significant
consequences."

The French report added that there have been "visits above
secret installations and missile bases" and "military aircraft
shadowed" in the United States.

Edgar Mitchell, the Apollo 14 astronaut who was the sixth man to
walk on the moon, also seeks UFO disclosure.

An American newspaper recently reported that Mitchell is
convinced "at a confidence level above 90 percent, that there is
reality to all of this." He says, "People have been digging
through the files and investigating for years now. The files are
quite convincing. The only thing that's lacking is the official
stamp."

Ananda, who will also show a 'surprise' UFO film at the
Bournemouth meeting, added: "Whether 'official' disclosure
happens sooner remains to be seen. Do you think any president or
prime minister has the courage to say that there is far more
powerful force out there, greater than what our defence systems
are capable of?"

The local meeting is being organised by Bournemouth's Positive
Living Group. Tickets are available from Angie Underwood on
Bournemouth 532963.

More on UFO disclosure from
www.disclosureproject.org
----------------------------------------------------

Are these tesimonies proof aliens exist.....?

Mercury & Gemini Astronaut, Colonel Gordon Cooper: "A saucer
flew right over [us] and landed out on the dry lakebed. [The
cameramen] went out with their cameras towards the UFO. I had a
chance to hold [the film] up to the window to look at it. Good
close-up shots. There was no doubt in my mind that it was
someplace other than on this Earth."

FAA Division Chief of Accidents and Investigations, John
Callahan: "The UFO was bouncing around the 747. [It] was a huge
ball with lights running around it..Well, I've been involved in
a lot of cover-ups with the FAA. When we gave the presentation
to the Reagan staff, they had all those people swear that this
never happened. But they never had me swear it never happened. I
can tell you what I've seen with my own eyes. I've got a
videotape. I've got the voice tape. I've got the reports that
were filed that will confirm what I've been telling you."

Former Chief of Defense, British Royal Navy, Admiral Lord Hill-
Norton: "I have frequently been asked why a person of my
background-a former Chief of the Defense Staff, a former
Chairman of the NATO Military Committee-why I think there is a
cover-up [of] the facts about UFOs. I believe governments fear
that if they did disclose those facts, people would panic. I
don't believe that at all. There is a serious possibility that
we are being visited by people from outer space. It behooves us
to find out who they are, where they come from, and what they
want."

Former Director of CIA, Admiral R.H. Hillenkoetter: "Behind the
scenes, high-ranking Air Force officers are soberly concerned
about the UFOs. But through official secrecy and ridicule, many
citizens are led to believe the unknown flying objects are
nonsense. To hide the facts, the Air Force has silenced its
personnel."


Marine Corps, Corporal Jonathan Weygandt: "[The UFO] was buried
in the side of a cliff. When I first saw it, I was scared. I
think the creatures calmed me..[Later] I was arrested [by an Air
Force officer]. He was saying, "Do you like the Constitution?"
I'm like, "Yeah." He said, "We don't obey. We just do what we
want. And if you tell anybody [about us or the UFO], you will
just come up missing."

-----


I Had a Close Encounter That Lasted Four Hours

(Headline under a picture of Ron Lucas with a large drawing of
the saucer shaped craft he saw)

by David Haith

Plane spotter Ron Lucas (71) is flying high when it comes to
aircraft recognition.

And that's why the former RAF senior aircraftsman, who will be
at the Bournemouth UFO Disclosure meeting, is 100 per cent
certain that UFOs are a reality.

For Ron of Homedene House, Seldown, Poole, has twice seen the
mysterious objects, both times in broad daylight and with
witnesses.

The sightings happened in the mid fifties when he worked as a
mechanic at Wedderburn's weighing machine factory in Shirley
Road, Southampton.

The first UFO was seen by Ron and six workmates on a lunchbreak
in the factory yard on a sunny day in 1956 - and the encounter
lasted four hours!

Explained Ron:  "We were all keen on aircraft recognition and
it's still a hobby of mine. One of my workmates used to go home
at lunchtime and scan the skies with his binoculars. He came
back and told us he'd seen this object in the sky so we all took
a look. I viewed the thing through binoculars and estimated that
it was 25,000 feet up. It was cigar shaped and revolving so it
appeared round when viewed end on."

Suddenly Ron and one of the others saw three silver metallic
looking discs, with a shadow effect beneath each, shoot away
from the larger object.

Said Ron: "They flew in our direction at a speed I estimated to
be 400 mph and when overhead banked, and disappeared in the
distance. They were roughly the size of a 5p coin held at arm's
length.

"The cigar shaped object hung revolving in the sky at exactly
the same point for four hours - we know because we kept going
outside to check. It couldn't have been a balloon or it wouldn't
have stayed in the same position. It was all very exciting."

It was two years later that Ron was again at the factory
discussing that same UFO sighting with a sceptical young
apprentice.

"He didn't believe it so I said let's go outside now and see if
we can spot one" explained Ron.

To their amazement, there low in the midday sky, was an
archetypal 'flying saucer'!

"It flew towards us but not in a smooth and controlled fashion,
more akin to a 'stop' and 'go' mode" related Ron. "It was
spinning, looking very much like and also resembling the action
of a child's spinning top. It would stop for a moment, wobble
and then continue its almost floating-like descent. It reached a
point where we could discern its shape and we noticed it had
some kind of appendage, slightly off centre at the top of the
craft. (See Ron's sketch of the UFO). The underside seemed very
thick and solid looking. The craft was silver grey and appeared
metallic - certainly no weather balloon. My best guess is that
it was about 35-40 feet in diameter - at its closest it appeared
the size of a 10p coin held at arm's length. The sighting lasted
around two minutes in all."

He added: We watched it finally come to a stop very low in the
sky. It hovered for about 15 seconds and then suddenly shot
straight back up and was lost to view in barely ten seconds. It
was that fast - yet there was no sound and no vapour trails."

"Even now all these years later I can still picture the craft.
My first sighting was quite something but what I saw descend
that day to barely a couple of thousand feet above my head, left
me in no doubt. My workmate and I know what we saw. There's no
doubting it was a UFO, was intelligently controlled and was
nothing humans could build at that time. It was an amazing sight
that will live with us for ever."

Ron fully backs the campaign for UFO Disclosure.

He said: "These craft may come from different dimensions but
what I saw seemed solid 'nuts and bolts' material which behaved
like an aircraft. If an an announcement was made by the
authorities that these things are real it would mean at last
people would accept what I saw. It frustrates me that the same
people who accept my word and skills in identifying a
conventional aircraft, dismiss what I say when I tell them I've
seen UFOs."



PANEL IN STORY

The Psychic Connection.

How was it that Ron Lucas has had two UFO sightings and most
people have seen none? Some believe UFOs are linked to the
psychic world and some may have special sensitivity and
'attract' the phenomena Ron's late father Albert was a medium.
Explained Ron: "I once gave him a sealed envelope with a genuine
photograph of a UFO inside.He was able to tell me exactly what
was on the picture and how and where it was taken." On another
occasion his father went into trance and told Ron: "You have
been shown twice and you will be shown again." Said Ron: "I
really hope I'll get another sighting before I pass on. I'm a
firm believer in the spirit world.

I think it's possible that there are many dimensions including
the one we go to after death.

UFOs may come from one of these other dimensions."








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   Sep > Sep 9

                         Last Saturday Night On SDI

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 14:28:01 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 20:51:34 -0400
Subject: Last Saturday Night On SDI


Hello All,

It's Tuesday and still not a peep on the List about the testimony
we heard from air traffic controller, Enrique Kolbeck on SDI
Saturday night. Did _anybody_ catch the interview?

EBK has posted it at:

http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/sdi/program/sdi2003.html

for anyone who missed it. Its program #256

Anyway...

On Saturday night Jaime Maussan along with Enrique Kolbeck, one
of Mexico City airports' air traffic controllers, gave shocking
testimony about a 'safety problem' being posed to pilots and air
traffic support personnel by "UFOs" in Mexico City's airspace.

Yes,  you heard me correctly. A _real_ "safety problem" stemming
from _UFO_ traffic in their airspace!!! Mr. Kolbeck informed us
that these 'objects' did not transmit _any_ transponder signals
and that it is a hit or miss proposition for the operators as to
whether they are able to detect them on radar or not. The pilots
get mad at ground support personnel if they are not 'warned' in
time to avoid possible collision with these unknown flying
objects.

"Not only in Mexico City," said Kolbeck. Air traffic controllers
from all of Mexico's major airports are dealing with the same
"problem." According to Enrique Kobecks stunning testimony,
airports in Mexico have had to shut down temporarily so that
pilots could execute _emergency_ landing procedures. All due to
near, or actual, collisions with these 'unknowns.'

Just as UFO secrecy rules here in the USA, officialdom in Mexico
also refuses to acknowledge or to admit that there is a
"problem." However, the men and women who are in the air and on
the ground serving the public safety have apparently taken
matters into their own hands and formed an 'informal' network
among them selves. Via this network they are able to communicate
with each other about the ongoing UFO problem, how to deal with
it and they share with each other news of any incidents that may
arise.

These people are collectively responsible for insuring the
safety of the flying public. It is comforting to know that even
though officials refuse to acknowledge that this problem even
exists, that the pilots themselves along with the support
technicians on the ground are doing 'something' about it. Even
if it is only in the 'talk' at this stage. Who knows, in the
future it may well be a group of professionals such as this,
demanding that the government do something to remedy safety
related issues that will create a crack in the wall of silence
about UFOs.

Enrique Kolbeck's testimony was some of the most compelling,
bone chilling and sobering that I have ever heard. I hope that
Don Ledger and other aviation industry report experts follow up
by documenting the names and the testimony of all the air
traffic professionals that Enrique mentioned during the
broadcast. We need to create a list of these
_professional_witnesses_ who are willing to testify so that
"maybe" one day we can all approach our government officials and
demand that they;

1. acknowledge that there is a 'real' problem... and

2. that they take some action on behalf of the public in order
to insure its safety both in the air and on the ground. I don't
pretend to know what that 'something' would be... but
'something' needs to be done.

_Before_ there is a loss of life.

Much food for thought.

Regards,

John Velez, contributing editor, SDI







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   Sep > Sep 9

                Re: HBCC UFO: Missing Time Update & Photos -

From: Colin Stevenson <colin@c2k2.fsworld.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 23:36:46 +0100
Fwd Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 21:15:17 -0400
Subject: Re: HBCC UFO: Missing Time Update & Photos -


>From: HBCC UFO <hbccufo@telus.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 01:28:08 -0700
>Subject: HBCC UFO: Missing Time Update - Photos


>Kelowna, British Columbia - Missing Time Update

>Photos of burn mark on one of the witnesses. Permission granted
>to HBCC UFO to post photos.

>Please be warned that the pictures are graphic and may be
>distruerbing to some. I have not cut anything from the photos. I
>left them the way I received them as it is a very important part
>to this case.

>Photos can be viewed along with the full report at:

>http://www3.telus.net/public/wilbur8/kelowna_missing_time.htm


>Update:

>I interviewed the second witness who I have named "Linda" in my
>report. She explained her account of the events which she
>remembers. It wasn't until the next morning when she became
>aware of the burnt marks on her lower spine and of course the
>problems with her nose bleeding badly. After her stay with her
>friend, who was also involved with the missing time event, she
>made a visit to her doctor when she arrived home due to the pain
>radiating from her lower back. Her doctor looked at it and was
>baffled. The doctor said if he didn't know any better the burn
>marks looked like radiation burns. Tests were performed and
>Linda was treated. The wound eventually started to clear up, but
>for some unknown reason, which again surprised her doctor the
>wound took a turn for the worse which is shown in picture number
>#1.

>As of today, September 9, 2003 two picture were taken, and in
>both photos the burn marks seem to be clearing at this time.

>Below are three pictures I received from the ladies who had the
>missing time in Kelowna, British Columbia. The name of the lady
>who shows the burn mark is fictitious for obvious reasons. In my
>report above I called her Linda and was the passenger in the car
>that night.

>In the first photo, the wound had healed up somewhat, but it
>took a turn for the worse and the results are shown in picture
>number #1. I was told that the doctor is stumped due to not
>knowing why the wound will not heal. Also the doctor reports
>that he still does not know what caused it.

>In the second photo taken today, September 8, 2003, early
>morning it shows that it seems to be again healing up.

>The third and last photo, taken today, September 8, 2003 at
>10:50 p.m. seems to look the same with no changes from the early
>morning shot. Let us hope the wound completely heals up.

>My many thanks to the ladies for providing these pictures to a
>very important event. I would also like to add that if others
>have been through this, or are going through a similar
>experience I would like to hear from them. It seems to help
>others knowing they are not a lone in all of this.


Hello Brain and List

Whilst experimenting with free energy production in massive
amounts I suffered similar burns all over my legs. I was
producing 3 KW. Some know this to be similar to Saint Elmo's
fire. Healing was also very slow indeed, similar to this case,
coming and going over a period of 3 weeks. Very painful and very
itchy indeed. Vitamin B6 and A I found were useful as is a local
anti histamine cream and tablets. Also considered increasing my
iodine intake but didn't, in the end, need to.

Just thought it tallied with the information posted.

col

http://www.colsweb.com







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   Sep > Sep 9

               Re: Rendlesham - Latest UFO Theory Dismissed -

From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 10:46:40 -0300
Fwd Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 10:48:56 -0400
Subject: Re: Rendlesham - Latest UFO Theory Dismissed -


>From: David Clarke <cd292@crazydiamonds.fsnet.co.uk>
>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 08:36:37 +0100
>Subject: Re: Rendlesham - Latest UFO Theory Dismissed

>The log also records that 24 hours later, ie early on the 29th
>there was fog again and 8 eights cloud cover.

Hi David,

That would be eight/tenths cloud cover, right?


Don Ledger






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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Sep > Sep 9

                   HBCC UFO: Missing Time Update & Photos

From: HBCC UFO <hbccufo@telus.net>
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 01:28:08 -0700
Fwd Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 09:16:00 -0400
Subject: HBCC UFO: Missing Time Update & Photos


Kelowna, British Columbia - Missing Time Update

Photos of burn mark on one of the witnesses. Permission granted
to HBCC UFO to post photos.

Please be warned that the pictures are graphic and may be
distruerbing to some. I have not cut anything from the photos. I
left them the way I received them as it is a very important part
to this case.

Photos can be viewed along with the full report at:

http://www3.telus.net/public/wilbur8/kelowna_missing_time.htm


Update:

I interviewed the second witness who I have named "Linda" in my
report. She explained her account of the events which she
remembers. It wasn't until the next morning when she became
aware of the burnt marks on her lower spine and of course the
problems with her nose bleeding badly. After her stay with her
friend, who was also involved with the missing time event, she
made a visit to her doctor when she arrived home due to the pain
radiating from her lower back. Her doctor looked at it and was
baffled. The doctor said if he didn't know any better the burn
marks looked like radiation burns. Tests were performed and
Linda was treated. The wound eventually started to clear up, but
for some unknown reason, which again surprised her doctor the
wound took a turn for the worse which is shown in picture number
#1.

As of today, September 9, 2003 two picture were taken, and in
both photos the burn marks seem to be clearing at this time.

Below are three pictures I received from the ladies who had the
missing time in Kelowna, British Columbia. The name of the lady
who shows the burn mark is fictitious for obvious reasons. In my
report above I called her Linda and was the passenger in the car
that night.

In the first photo, the wound had healed up somewhat, but it
took a turn for the worse and the results are shown in picture
number #1. I was told that the doctor is stumped due to not
knowing why the wound will not heal. Also the doctor reports
that he still does not know what caused it.

In the second photo taken today, September 8, 2003, early
morning it shows that it seems to be again healing up.

The third and last photo, taken today, September 8, 2003 at
10:50 p.m. seems to look the same with no changes from the early
morning shot. Let us hope the wound completely heals up.

My many thanks to the ladies for providing these pictures to a
very important event. I would also like to add that if others
have been through this, or are going through a similar
experience I would like to hear from them. It seems to help
others knowing they are not a lone in all of this.


Brian Vike

Director HBCC UFO Research
Canadian Toll Free UFO Hotline 1 866 262 1989 - Free call.
Phone/Fax 1 250 845 2189
Editor: Canadian Communicator - Paranormal Magazine
email: hbccufo@telus.net
Website: http://www3.telus.net/public/wilbur8/hbcc_ufo_research.htm






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   Sep > Sep 9

                     'Alien-Hunters' Gaining New Respect

From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 08:32:23 +0100
Fwd Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 09:11:36 -0400
Subject: 'Alien-Hunters' Gaining New Respect


Morning All

MSNBC has a new article on SETI that I thought you might be
interested in:


http://www.msnbc.com/news/960462.asp?cp1=1


In an infinite universe, infinitely anything is possible.
Sean Jones
http://www.tedric.demon.co.uk/






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               Re: Rendlesham - Latest UFO Theory Dismissed -

From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 23:13:44 -0300
Fwd Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 07:31:32 -0400
Subject: Re: Rendlesham - Latest UFO Theory Dismissed -


>From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 08:49:19 -0700
>Subject: Re: Rendlesham - Latest UFO Theory Dismissed

>>From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 10:46:40 -0300
>>Subject: Re: Rendlesham - Latest UFO Theory Dismissed

>>>From: David Clarke <cd292@crazydiamonds.fsnet.co.uk>
>>>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>>Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 08:36:37 +0100
>>>Subject: Re: Rendlesham - Latest UFO Theory Dismissed

>>>The log also records that 24 hours later, ie early on the 29th
>>>there was fog again and 8 eights cloud cover.

>>That would be eight/tenths cloud cover, right?

>That's complete cloud cover. However, the 2.5 mile visibility
>along with fog does suggest that the fog was spotty.

Ten tenths is complete cloud cover. Solid overcast. Note that
David had it as 8 eights cloud cover which is inaccurate. It
would be 8 tenths. This however has nothing to do with
horizontal visibility while on the ground.

The 2.5 mile vis - probably with foggy patches [light fog or as
it's typed, - fog] suggests that there was terrain extending
upward to the cloud cover and between the tower and low cloud
cover giving the visibility at 2.5 miles.

There are about a hundred variables to this fog, cloud and vis
situation. The best bet is to get the area met forecast for that
night.


Don







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               Re: Rendlesham - Latest UFO Theory Dismissed -

From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 00:28:52 EDT
Fwd Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 07:32:57 -0400
Subject: Re: Rendlesham - Latest UFO Theory Dismissed -


>From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 10:46:40 -0300
>Subject: Re: Rendlesham - Latest UFO Theory Dismissed

>>From: David Clarke <cd292@crazydiamonds.fsnet.co.uk>
>>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 08:36:37 +0100
>>Subject: Re: Rendlesham - Latest UFO Theory Dismissed

>>The log also records that 24 hours later, ie early on the 29th
>>there was fog again and 8 eights cloud cover.

>Hi David,

>That would be eight/tenths cloud cover, right?

Could be eight/ninths.... :)


Cheers,

Robert








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                   Re: Last Saturday Night On SDI - Ledger

From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 01:46:22 -0300
Fwd Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 07:54:19 -0400
Subject: Re: Last Saturday Night On SDI - Ledger


>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
>Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 14:28:01 -0400
>Subject: Last Saturday Night On SDI

>Hello All,

>It's Tuesday and still not a peep on the List about the testimony
>we heard from air traffic controller, Enrique Kolbeck on SDI
>Saturday night. Did _anybody_ catch the interview?

>EBK has posted it at:

>http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/sdi/program/sdi2003.html

>for anyone who missed it. Its program #256

>Anyway...

>On Saturday night Jaime Maussan along with Enrique Kolbeck, one
>of Mexico City airports' air traffic controllers, gave shocking
>testimony about a 'safety problem' being posed to pilots and air
>traffic support personnel by "UFOs" in Mexico City's airspace.

<snip>

Hi John and List,

I'm not sure whether many in the UFO field get the significance
of having the sanctity of controlled airspace, violated. Pilots
regularly get suspended or lose licenses for lesser infractions
in controlled airspace than operating their aircraft in the
pattern or getting in the way of another sanctioned aircraft on
approach or during climbout particulary with the "heavies"
carrying hundreds of passengers.

It suddenly becomes a federal matter involving certain agencies
of the affected country. UFOs have been doing this and seemingly
with impunity.

Reports by pilots and AT controllers have been met with either
puzzlement, stoney indifference or some wry comments - usually
associated with little green men. When the shoe is on the other
foot and the controller either witnesses this event or the
Terminal Controller views the computer generated return on his
screen, they are met with silence upon reporting it. There's an
incident report filed and that's about it.

There is an opportunity here to pressure the authorities to act
on their own regulations. I think they do this in any event, but
not openly. They can't ignore what is an obvious safety issue.
Whether the UFO and the aircraft actually collide is not at
issue. This might have happened in areas where there is no
witnesse to the event [missing aircraft - never found], but the
point is, just having an object in your airspace as a pilot with
its intentions unknown is extremely disconcerting.

What is this thing likely to do? Does it know I'm here, could it
turn into me, could it cause turbulance or instrument
malfunction [many such cases exist]?

On the other hand, if the pilot has to manuever suddenly to
avoid what might seem to be imminent impact, what will happen to
the passengers in the cabin behind? Anyone who has seen the
inside of the Vomit Comet during it's parabolic curve to
simulate weightlessness and the free floating participants can
see what would happen in an emergency and more violent pitchup
and nose over during a collision avoidance maneuver or a
collision avoidance turn-CAT.

In the case of the Mexican airline DC-9 collision the pilot knew
he had hit something while climbing out _and_ then _declared_ an
Emergency. That's a huge deal for any pilot. It has
repercussions that can go on for months and even affect the
pilot's career.

More on this as the days go by.

Last night I talked to a pilot friend of mine - he's ex-military
CAF and now manages a small municipal airport. I told him about
SDI on Saturday evening. He, incidentally, saw something while
flying some years ago that he couldn't explain. But I related to
him of an incident last year in February where a commuter
aircraft out of Calgary enroute to Quebec City was in Toronto's
airspace at 23,000 feet and being handled by the TO sector. It's
still daylight when the pilot calls TS and asks if they have
traffic opposite direction dead ahead. Negative. The pilot
reports a brilliant object that passes off to his left about
1,000 feet below him. "What type aircraft?" Asks the controller.
"It wasn't an aircraft." replies the pilot.

Under Action Required: in the Civil Aviation Daily Occurrence
Reporting System [CADORS] report was typed, "NONE Report passed
to NORAD". This pilot was in airspace that demanded 5 miles
horizontal separation and 2 to 3,000 feet of vertical
separation, and a Mode-C transponder and a flight plan and a
radio that was tuned to the designated ATC frequency for the
sector. None of this was in force... but crickets from the
regulating authority.

My pilot friend raised an eyebrow at that. As a control report I
ran another incident by him that ocurred the same day but a
couple of hours later.

Two airliners out of the eastern US, Kennedy and Boston are
heading overseas and being controlled by Oceanic Area Control
Center [still Canadian]. The Boston airliner is slightly below
and still climbing to get to its assigned altitude of 40,000
feet where the Kennnedy aircraft has already established itself.
The Boston airliner slots in at 123 miles behind the Kennedy
airliner. Bells go off and it immediately gets an admonishment
from OACC telling it, it is 2 miles too close to the Kennedy
aircraft, It's supposed to be 125 miles behind not 123. [It's an
overtaking threat issue. 125 miles sounds like alot but if one
aircraft were to reduce speed or turn back the overtake time is
between 11.5 minutes at best down to about 5 minutes for a 180
degree turn by the leading AC]

Action Required: Yes. Enforcement action to follow. Meaning
someone will investigate this infraction and the pilot will have
to explain what happened.

My pilot friend says, "Christ! Yes! There's at least an 8 minute
separation." I was puzzled why he thought this more noteworthy
than an unidentified object coming right at the commuter and
passing so close below. They were both in CADORS reports. Didn't
he think that Transport Canada should have investigated this?
After all it was a gross violation of the air regs pertaining to
flight in a federally controlled zone.

His answer was, it's pretty tough to chase something like this
down when there's no ID on the aircraft.

Yeah, I wonder. The Commuter was East of Toronto and about 125
miles West of St. Hubert, Quebec. St. Hubert is a NORAD base.
NORAD was contacted. Transport Canada shrugged over that one.
But they finked on the Boston airline pilot. That would have
been forwarded to the FAA.

But what is being ignored is safety - and that's what NARCAP is
concentrating on, among other issues.

As for tracking down the other AT controllers in Mexico, that
won't be easy from my location. I'm moving and building at the
same time. But it's a case I plan to pursue. But any others out
there that have some expertise in this area are welcome to wade
in as well.

Sorry for the length-but it is an omnibus subject.


Best,

Don Ledger

NARCAP Canada
National Aviation Reporting Center on Anomalous Phenomena






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   Sep > Sep 10

               Re: Rendlesham - Latest UFO Theory Dismissed -

From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 02:01:35 -0300
Fwd Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 07:59:05 -0400
Subject: Re: Rendlesham - Latest UFO Theory Dismissed -


>From: David Clarke <cd292@crazydiamonds.fsnet.co.uk>
>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 16:12:42 +0100
>Subject: Re: Rendlesham - Latest UFO Theory Dismissed

>>From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 10:46:40 -0300
>>Subject: Re: Rendlesham - Latest UFO Theory Dismissed

>>That would be eight/tenths cloud cover, right?

>I'm sure that's correct.

>The information I have from Ian's log is, for 29 December "fog
>[and] 8 eighths cloud cover... which would have made sightings
>of stars impossible."

>I guess that means it was pretty foggy, as opposed to the night
>Halt made his expedition which appears to have been clear with
>localised fog.

Hi David,

In met and aviation parlance cloud cover is noted in tenths. Fog
is a different matter and is noted as fog+ [heavy] or -fog
[light fog] or even chance of fog. It only comes into play when
an aircraft is on approach or landing. Otherwise it's cloud.


Best,

Don








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   Sep > Sep 10

                  Re: More Bentwaters Information - Clarke

From: David Clarke <cd292@crazydiamonds.fsnet.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 08:50:36 +0100
Fwd Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 08:04:38 -0400
Subject: Re: More Bentwaters Information - Clarke


>From: Nick Pope <nick@popemod.freeserve.co.uk>
>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 19:10:43 +0100
>Subject: Re: More Bentwaters Information

>>From: David Clarke <cd292@crazydiamonds.fsnet.co.uk>
>>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 16:28:53 +0100
>>Subject: Re: More Bentwaters Information

>As you say though, this should be a simple matter to resolve. A
>brief request to the USAFE Office of Public Affairs at Ramstein
>AFB should clear the matter up once and for all. Remember that
>as I explained in my earlier post (see above), the question
>isn't whether there was or wasn't an alert condition, it's what
>the alert condition was. I recommend that to cover all the
>bases, so to speak, the question should mention both Bentwaters
>and Woodbridge, and cover the dates 25 - 30 December 1980.


Hi Nick,

I'm glad that you agree this would be an easy matter to resolve.
I'm happy to write to Ramstein and ask the question if it is
going to cause you any problems. If that's what you would prefer
let me know and I will post whatever reply I receive on the List
for everyone to see.

If it emerges there was no alert, or any alert that would have
necessitated two law enforcement officers being on duty, then we
can draw a line under this once and for all. I think you will
agree that it is pointless wasting time and energy arguing about
something until the facts have been established.


Best,

Dave Clarke

"Depend upon it that he who loves making mysteries for the sake
of mystery making is ultimately and in big things a fool, and
therefore dangerous."

- Arthur Machen, 'The Bowmen and Angels of Mons'








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                Re: John Ford Redux (SDI 6 September, 2003) -

From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 05:18:36 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 08:07:53 -0400
Subject: Re: John Ford Redux (SDI 6 September, 2003) -


>From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com>
>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 11:37:40 -0700
>Subject: Re: John Ford Redux (SDI 6 September, 2003)

>>From: Michael Christol <spachopr@bellsouth.net>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 19:56:16 -0500
>>Subject: Re: John Ford Redux (SDI 6 September, 2003)

>>>From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>>Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2003 09:56:55 -0500
>>>Subject: John Ford Redux (SDI 6 September, 2003)

>><snip>

>>I know John Ford. I exchanged info with him and helped spread
>>his investigation into the crash of an alien space craft near
>>Moriches Bay on September 28th,1989...through out the MUFONET
>>Back bone, prior to the Internet, via BBS"s, (Bulletin Board
>>Systems.)

>For the record, Mr. Ford also attempted to curry favorable
>reporting from ParaNet at the time of the Moriches Bay
>'incident'. We chose to pass. Let history judge our decision.


Ok, Mr Speiser, in as much as these three sentences fairly drip
with negative assessment, bad criticism, and disqualifying
innuendo... what history are _you_ counting on? Was Ford's
ethical behavior something less than I indicated it was? Was
his community efficacy in any way other than was reported? Were
the facts regarding John Powell's criminality, and John Ford's
even oblique investigation of that criminality improperly
iterated?

You know? That's the trouble with history... it's composed by
the winners. Moreover, I think it likely that many of the
reasons for your veiled criticisms are dealt with in the text of
my paper... and are all, added together (!), something well less
than a good reason to keep him in prison for all of these years.

Lehmberg@snowhill.com

EXPLORE "AlienViewGroup" at its HostPros URL.
http://www.alienview.net


JOHN FORD RESTORATION FUND -- John will be released eventually.
He'll need a tax free cash stake to get on his feet. Let's put
one together for him; the bigger it is -- the more attention he
gets. It could have been you. E-mail for detail. $350.00 pledged
-- $200.00 collected!

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite.
What others see from afar, I leave far behind me."
- Giordano Bruno, scourged by the scabrously specious scurrilous.







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                Canadian And World Wide Sightings Forum Ready

From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO <hbccufo@telus.net>
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 20:20:26 -0700
Fwd Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 08:19:41 -0400
Subject: Canadian And World Wide Sightings Forum Ready


Hi List

I thought I would pass this along to everyone. There have been
so many really nice, and very helpful people pitching in to give
me a hand in trying to bring you Canadian & World wide sighting
reports.

This forum board was created by one of the kind folks who wanted
to lend a hand. In doing so we have a new board in which people
can talk about what they see, make their reports, etc.:

http://phil-can.com/HBCC-UFO/index.php


The board will be strictly monitored so no abuse is takes place.
It is for everyone to enjoy, report their sightings and discuss
the UFO topic. I hope everyone enjoys.

If you keep your eye on this new board and see something you
find of interest, let me know and I will try to get the
information to you.


Take care,

Brian Vike

Director HBCC UFO Research
Canadian Toll Free UFO Hotline 1 866 262 1989 - Free call.
Phone/Fax 1 250 845 2189
Editor: Canadian Communicator - Paranormal Magazine
email: hbccufo@telus.net
Website: http://www3.telus.net/public/wilbur8/hbcc_ufo_research.htm







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   Sep > Sep 10

                     Barriere, British Columbia 09-03-03

From: Brian Vike HBCC UFO <hbccufo@telus.net>
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 21:47:42 -0700
Fwd Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 08:23:30 -0400
Subject: Barriere, British Columbia 09-03-03


Barriere, British Columbia

Date:  September 3, 2003
Time:  approx: 11:10 p.m.

A fellow telephoned me tonight to say he heard me on CIFM radio,
out of Kamloops, British Columbia, interviewing a witness about
a sighting she, and a large number of others had. He perked up
when he heard the program, and said to himself, "I have that
object on video tape"!

When the witness shot the footage, he was out taking pictures of
the night sky, and saw something move very strangely through the
night sky. He thought to himself this can't be an airplane. So
he took some good footage of this strange object. He is sending
it my way and I hope it may shed some light on this sighting I
have been working on.

I then heard about a sighting report which comes out of
Barriere, British Columbia. There was one witness to this event
which took place on September 3, 2003 at approx: 11:10 p.m. A
lady had been outside and was making her way back into their
home when she happened to glance up and saw a huge cylinder
shaped craft flying very quickly, she claims it was really low.
This witness told me that even with it being dark out, you
couldn't miss seeing it. It was larger than any aircraft that
she knew of, looking at it length wise. She said there were a
large number of bright white lights on it. Her thoughts were
maybe these were windows and they were running down the full
length of the object. There were no wings noticed on the craft
and when I asked more questions, she said it actually reminded
her of a long tube. No sound was heard and the sighting lasted
for approx: 5 seconds.

At the time of the sighting her boyfriend was inside their home
and he reported to his girlfriend that their cat went nuts when
the object passed by. Of course he had not known about the craft
until his girlfriend told him, and he mentioned about the cat at
that time.

Thank you to the witness for the report.


Brian Vike

Director HBCC UFO Research
Canadian Toll Free UFO Hotline 1 866 262 1989 - Free call.
Phone/Fax 1 250 845 2189
HBCC UFO Research Sightings Forum  Board.
URL http://phil-can.com/HBCC-UFO/index.php
email: hbccufo@telus.net
Website: http://www3.telus.net/public/wilbur8/hbcc_ufo_research.htm







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                  Re: Did 1995 Circle Predict Something for

From: Loren Coleman <lcoleman@maine.rr.com>
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 08:37:57 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 09:10:40 -0400
Subject: Re: Did 1995 Circle Predict Something for


>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker@earthlink.net>
>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 09:39:41 -0400
>Subject: Re: Did 1995 Circle Predict Something for September 6?


Ray Stanford sends in another in this thread on Sat, 6 Sep 2003,
and says, in part...

>Please be aware that we are on the internet, and there are
>probably, for example, relatively inexperienced children who
>could come across that kind of crap and take such diseased
>thinking seriously. History proves that such 'diseases' can be
>highly contagious. You are knowledgeable enough that I don't
>think it necessary to describe examples.
>Discretion is the better part of valor.

Mr. Stanford is fast to give advice when he is caught with his
own mistakes exposed. I was falsely criticized on this List for
comments that, if he is not now lying, I would assume that he
knew were not mine. Nonsense, he directly posted comments about
me, and yet they were approved and posted to this List. He
attacks and slams, and gets his posts on the List. Where are the
ones (other than mine) that tried to counterbalance his
arrogant style?

Mr. Stanford is the one using words like "bullshit" and "crap"
in his critiques of this material, and if he was really
concerned about "inexperienced children" reading this list, how
does he justify his tone? Come now, Mr. Stanford has gotten away
with this for too long. And unanswered on this List, apparently.

I am not the one that took this personally, and doing such does
not model appropriate ufologist behavior to young people, now
does it?


Loren







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               Re: Rendlesham - Latest UFO Theory Dismissed -

From: Martin Shough <mshough@parcellular.fsnet.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 14:27:40 +0100
Fwd Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 09:48:45 -0400
Subject: Re: Rendlesham - Latest UFO Theory Dismissed -


>From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 23:13:44 -0300
>Subject: Re: Rendlesham - Latest UFO Theory Dismissed

>>From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 08:49:19 -0700
>>Subject: Re: Rendlesham - Latest UFO Theory Dismissed

>>>From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>>Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 10:46:40 -0300
>>>Subject: Re: Rendlesham - Latest UFO Theory Dismissed

>>>>From: David Clarke <cd292@crazydiamonds.fsnet.co.uk>
>>>>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>>>Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 08:36:37 +0100
>>>>Subject: Re: Rendlesham - Latest UFO Theory Dismissed

>>>>The log also records that 24 hours later, ie early on the 29th
>>>>there was fog again and 8 eights cloud cover.

>>>That would be eight/tenths cloud cover, right?

>>That's complete cloud cover. However, the 2.5 mile visibility
>>along with fog does suggest that the fog was spotty.

>Ten tenths is complete cloud cover. Solid overcast. Note that
>David had it as 8 eights cloud cover which is inaccurate. It
>would be 8 tenths. This however has nothing to do with
>horizontal visibility while on the ground.

>The 2.5 mile vis - probably with foggy patches [light fog or as
>it's typed, - fog] suggests that there was terrain extending
>upward to the cloud cover and between the tower and low cloud
>cover giving the visibility at 2.5 miles.

>There are about a hundred variables to this fog, cloud and vis
>situation. The best bet is to get the area met forecast for that
>night.


Hi Don, All,

UK Met Office cloud reports are traditionally in eighths, not
tenths, so if Dave's source is a UK source then 8/8ths as
originally quoted is very likely correct.


Martin Shough








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                          Filer's Files #37 -- 2003

From: George A. Filer <Majorstar@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 09:30:57 EDT
Fwd Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 15:43:52 -0400
Subject: Filer's Files #37 -- 2003


Filer's Files #37 -- 2003 Skywatch Investigations.
George A. Filer,  Director Mutual UFO Network Eastern
September 10, 2003, Webmaster: Chuck Warren --
My website is at: www.GeorgeFiler.com
Sponsored by: OPC-3

AUGUST HAS 400 UFO SIGHTINGS -- HIGHEST IN A YEAR

The purpose of these files is to report the UFO eyewitness and
photo/video evidence that occurs on a daily basis around the
world and in space. This week's files investigate: SECOND
Anniversary of 9/11 attacks, Ten Commandments and UFOs, New
Hampshire - daylight stars maneuver, New Jersey - UFO teardrop,
Maryland- extremely bright searchlight, Virginia - hovering
object with two lights on each end, Georgia - two cylinders fly
side by side, Ohio - residents see strange lights in sky,
Tennessee - disc shaped craft video investigation, Louisiana -
string of lights above field, Colorado - couple sees flying
triangle while looking at Mars, California - bright red light
hovering above LA, Washington - fireball crashes, Canada -
intense white light surrounds auto, Mexico - red and white
sphere later a blackout, England - shiny black cylindrical UFO
fly's by gliders, Did UFOs cause the Blackouts? Germany -
experts claim no increase in UFO sightings due to Mars, Finland
- object changes shape, Israel -two UFO's were seen in Tel-
Aviv.

SECOND ANNIVERSARY OF 9/11 ATTACKS

We now know that eighteen Saudi Arabian fundamentalist Muslim
radicals hijacked four aircraft and carried out a well-planned
and calculated attack on the New York's World Trade Center and
Washington killing almost 2,000 people. Since then President
Bush has carried out a crusade against terrorists in both
Afghanistan and Iraq. Iraq's defenses fell in three weeks, but
many of Iraq's strong believers have continued to fight with US
forces losing 400 killed thus far in the war. The Quran
encourages Muslims to fight, even when they would rather seek
peace with those who do not wish to adopt Islam. The Quran
provides support for Fighting and the Sacred Rage in the Cause
of Allah (Jihad) or Holy war. It states, "Fight against those
who believe not in Allah and the Last Day and do not forbid what
Allah and His Messenger, have forbidden -- such men as practice
not the religion of truth, being of those who have been given
the Book -- until they pay tribute out of hand and have been
humbled" (Sura al-Tawba 9:29).

President Bush has acknowledged his belief in Christianity,
while the al Qaida and various fundamentalist Muslim groups
declare their intent to destroy the US, Israel and its allies.
Al-Qaida believes that governments of Muslim countries that
fail to follow Islamic law should be overthrown and US troops
must leave Saudi Arabia. Al-Qaida considers the US to be a
primary enemy of Islam. While it is generally not mentioned in
our news media, much of the Muslim world believes, we are
engaged in a great (Jihad) Holy War. Most of those who died on
September 11, 2001, had no idea they were at war. Over the last
two years Islamic militants have killed more than 350 people in
Indonesia, Kenya, Morocco, Saudi Arabia and India. A new tape
purporting to be from al-Qaida network yesterday threatened an
onslaught against Americans so devastating it would obliterate
memories of the September 11 suicide attacks.

TEN COMMANDMENTS -- I suggest UFOs have played an important role
in the history of the world. Reverend Barry Downing in his book
"The Bible and Flying Saucers" declares the messengers are here
and that the Pillar of Fire and of Cloud are ancient
descriptions of UFOs. He and other experts feel that when the
Hebrew Scriptures are translated correctly, they describe
cylinder or saucer shaped craft with a dome, that carry God's
messengers, angels, or the Lord. The word most often used in
the Old Testament for cloud is 'anan,' a word that describes
anything that flies except birds and insects. The clouds or
'anan' are described as having attributes not normally
associated with fluffy clouds such as flying towards the
observer and landing, glowing at night, and carrying passengers.
Reverend Downing states, "During the exit of Israelites from
Egypt they are guarded by a pillar of cloud by day and a pillar
of fire by night.' (Exodus 14:24), Sometimes the pillar of cloud
is referred to as the "Lord" (Exodus 13:21; 14:24); other
references seem to be "the angel of God" (Exodus 14:20), "the
glory and brightness of the Lord appeared in the cloud" (Exodus
16:10), "I am coming to you in a thick cloud" (Exodus 19-9), "Mt
Sinai was wrapped in smoke because the Lord descended upon it in
a fire" (Exodus 19:18). Obviously, normal clouds cannot carry
passengers, so we can assume the Bible is referring to some type
of flying craft that hovers in one spot for months. The
descriptions often describe coming in the clouds. The power of
the Lord met Moses on the top of Mount Sinai and gave Christians
and Jews the Laws of God, known as the Ten Commandments. They
begin, Because "I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of
the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage," "You shall have
no other gods before me" (Exodus 20:2,3). These commandments
provide a standard of behavior brought in a UFO by the Lord who
came from Heaven, so that Earth can fulfill God's plan.

Today the US faces a constitutional crisis to determine, if we
are subject to the higher Law of God? Or is law simply what one
judge or the government says it is? Are human rights unalienable
because they are the gift of our Creator, or are they simply
negotiable privileges that government can give or take away at
will?

Alabama Chief Justice Roy Moore's battle for the Ten Commandment
monument may be critical to the future of our world. US
District Judge Myron Thompson ruled last year that the monument
violates the constitution's ban on government endorsement of a
religious doctrine, and that the Ten Commandments must be
removed from the Alabama Judicial Building by August 21, 2003.
Alabama Judge Moore replies, "It is a sad day in our country
when the moral foundation of our laws and the acknowledgment of
God has to be hidden from public view to appease a federal
judge." He has promised a full appeal to the US Supreme Court.

United States was formed by belief in God, and has become the
mightiest nation on Earth by following its concepts. The legal
system seems to have lost its way. Many immoral acts are
defended in our courts, while the moral foundation of law is
taken away. We have lost our spiritual equilibrium and reversed
our values. I wonder, if these factors have anything to do with
the blackouts and large number of UFOs in our skies? As
President Bush, says at the end of every speech, "God Bless
America." Perhaps he is aware of UFOs, and the importance they
play in the history of the world. God will remember even if no
one else does.

NEW HAMPSHIRE - DAYLIGHT STARS MOVING IN ALL DIRECTIONS

PLAINFIELD -- Carolyn McNellis writes, I had an interesting
experience on Sunday, September 7, 2003, from 2:15 to 2:50 PM,
while sitting in my yard in the shade and looking northwest up
through the trees into the clear, blue sky. I thought I was
witnessing a meteor shower, except the "stars" were going in all
directions, stopping in mid air and then moving rapidly along
and out of sight; or changing direction completely and zipping
out of sight; or two coming from different directions, and
colliding, then moving off in different directions as if they
hadn't "met." There were occasional (2 or 3) tiny "vapor
trails" which would disappear almost immediately. The "stars"
were very bright, and about the size of a pinhead held at arm's
length -- all about the same size and brilliance -- all
reflecting the suns rays I thought. The sky seemed full of
them; maybe over 100 during the period. It rivaled the last
spring's great meteor shower. I thought I was witnessing white
moths, which were flying into the trees with the sunlight
shining on their wings. I realized the STARS were extremely
high in the heavens, certainly not 100 to 200 feet! That got my
attention. I watched for about 5 minutes before going into the
house to call our friend, an astronomer at Dartmouth. He lives
two miles away, and went into his yard to spot them. He was
unable to see anything, and finally suggested I try to
photograph them. By the time I got the camera, they were almost
gone, and I was only able to catch one. We ruled out an
airplane discharge and ice crystals. Thanks to Carolyn McNellis
See photos at www.GeorgeFiler.com/ FF#37views

NEW JERSEY - UFO TEARDROP

LINDEN -- At 9:30 PM, while driving on August 30, 2003, the
observer saw a silver disk shaped object in the sky with
extremely bright lights. One of the lights was yellow. He
states, "While driving I called a family member on my cell phone
and stopped to look at it and describe what I was seeing." Then
the disk took off but, while I was still on the phone my uncle
went outside to look and he spotted it. When I approached the
street that it was on, to look at it again it disappeared. I
drove around town to look for it, but could not find it, 4 other
people (including my uncle witnessed this event), Thanks to
Peter Davenport NUFORC Reports

MARYLAND- EXTREMELY BRIGHT SEARCHLIGHT

LAYTONSVILLE --At 10:13 PM, on September 1, 2003, the witness
heard a loud noise resembling an engine outside, so she looked
out her window and saw something like a shooting star, but it
was falling UP very fast! A light on the object started flashing
VERY brightly and then a HUGE, EXTREMELY BRIGHT searchlight
turned on. She states, "I thought they were looking for
something as I moved around in my bed to try to get a better
view, then the searchlight shined REALLY bright on my window,
and I could hardly see." So I closed my eyes for a second, then
it was gone! I was still looking out my window when I saw a
man's reflection in it. I turned around and nobody was there.
Thanks to CookieDough1190@netscape.net

VIRGINIA - HOVERING OBJECT WITH TWO LIGHTS ON EACH END

ELBERON -- On August 31, 2003, a friend told her driver, "Look
at those hovering lights!" The driver acknowledged she could
just barely see them. The driver states, "As I began to enter
the bend in the road, four lights were directly over top of us
with the two on the outsides being slightly the largest. I could
not see a shape of the object, because the lights were so bright
and it was so close. I told her I was stopping the van when I
got out of the curve, right at the highway intersection. The
object was hovering, because I could now see it behind me. I
said, Let's get out. We both jumped out of the van. The very
second I turned, it was absolutely and completely GONE. This
thing was SO CLOSE to the ground that the lights were almost
blinding to look into. The lights were like vehicle lights 80
feet ahead coming toward us. Without disussing what we saw, we
both drew pictures of the same thing." Thanks to Peter Davenport
NUFORC Reports

GEORGIA - HOVERING FLASHING OBJECT BLUE, RED, AND AMBER LIGHTS

SAVANNAH - The witness reports, "I was on the deck around 2330
hours, on September 1, 2003, and saw Mars off to my east; and I
turned and saw a strobe of an aircraft off to the west of me
but, I noticed that it was not moving." It looked like a
Christmas light, flashing red, blue, and amber color. I grabbed
a pair of binoculars and it was so far off that I could only see
the lights flashing and changing. I could not see a shape. I
thought it was a star -- but I noticed that the other stars were
not flashing or changing light texture. I sat down and watched
through the binoculars, and it barely moved, while it would
flash rapidly and then slow way down. It seemed to grow larger
then back off, all the while the lights flashed blue, red, and
amber or white. The clouds passed in front of the object and
myself and I went inside when it started to rain. Thanks to
Peter Davenport NUFORC Reports

TENNESSEE - VIDEO CONSIDERED A REAL ANOMALY

Kim Shaffer writes, " Just received this conclusion from Jeff
Sainio, MUFON's video expert about the disc I filmed August 2nd.
Subject: RE: Weather balloons? I measured the object size; not
very exciting; the attached graph shows the size (in arbitrary
units over the length of the video); drops somewhat, then stays
fairly constant. Assuming the object is actually constant, this
indicates the object distance; moving away but then stopping.
But in doing so I noticed the contrast was quite bad at several
points (most notably when a bird flies through the upper right
of the video). The contrast loss is not simply due to glare and
small size; other points in the video showing a small object
(probably due to rotating to a small 'face') show good
contrast. The obvious conclusion is that the poor contrast is
due to being almost in the clouds. This gives the Rosetta
stone; an indication of object distance. Assuming the clouds are
at 10,000 feet (is a better number known)? simple trig indicates
an object distance of about 4 miles and size of about 20 feet,
Max speed about 20 MPH. These numbers are only good to 20% or
so. The 20-foot size is certainly interesting. Thanks to Kim
Shaffer, 9/7/03 message from Jeffrey.Sainio@qg.com See photos at
www.GeorgeFiler.com/ FF #36 views

OHIO - OHIO RESIDENTS SEE STRANGE LIGHTS IN SKY  ROME TOWNSHIP
-- Tim Stephen's of the Herald-Dispatch writes, "Maybe it is
something for the X-Files. Residents in the Rome Township,
Proctorville and Chesapeake areas were curious about the source
of odd lights in the sky Sunday and Monday nights. Two lights
appeared to circle as if chasing one another each night over
Rome Township, prompting residents to peer skyward. Occasional
blips or flashes also appeared at random, sometimes over Ohio 7
and sometimes over Ohio 243 toward the Ohio River." "They were
just kind of circling around," said Roger Lambert, "The lights
appeared, at times, to resemble spotlights reflecting off
clouds." The Lawrence County Sheriff's Department received phone
calls inquiring about the lights, as did television stations
WOWK and WSAZ. The circling lights certainly didn't appear to be
lightning. "I didn't think anything of it until I saw the little
flashes. Ohio traditionally has been a hotbed for UFO sightings.
The northeastern section of Ohio, particularly around Akron, has
garnered much more attention for strange phenomena in the sky.

On Friday, then again on Saturday, Heather Rice of Bainbridge,
Ohio, spotted and filmed something she couldn't explain in the
skies of central Ohio. "It looked like a circular thing with
windows with the red and green lights shining through." "It was
spinning fast." Thanks to Jim Hickman and the Herald-Dispatch
9/4/3

OKLAHOMA - BRIGHT SILVER DISC, WITH BLACK DOT IN MIDDLE

PONCA CITY -- On September 3, 2003, the witness was outside, at
7:10 PM, and saw a bird, and then he saw this strange bright
object with a black dot in the middle of it. First I thought it
was a plane, then I realized it wasn't because it was shaped
like a disc. I was watching it, and then started to think it was
a UFO. It looked silver, but bright like a reflection. It was
moving straight then it would move left then back to the same
place. I ran inside to get someone, then when we came back it
was gone.

LOUISIANA - STRING OF LIGHTS ABOVE FIELD

LAKE CHARLES -- KPLC in Lafayette, reports Dwayne Wilks says,
"My daughter called and said, 'Dad, come outside-there's
something really weird in the sky.' It was sometime after nine
p.m. last Thursday night. I never saw anything like that before
in my life." Witnesses saw a strange string of bright lights in
a field, just above a group of tall trees. Wilks says, "I know
there were ten of us and we all saw the same thing." Wilks'
father Daniel saw it, too. He says, "There was definitely lights
out there. Was it a craft?   I couldn't say yes or no because
it was dark and I couldn't see any craft, but I did see the
lights." The Bellon family, who lived close by, saw it too.
Wilks says, "I have been living here all my life and have never
seen anything in that field, so it wasn't just some object out
there=E2=C7=A6It was high enough off the ground. It was something in
the air...You couldn't hear it. It was strange, totally
strange."

ARIZONA - PHOTO OF CIRCULAR DISK OBJECT

APACHE JUNCTION After taking several photos of the sunrise on
August 28, 2003., I came home and uploaded the photos to my PC.
One photo has a very clear image of an object that is quite
enigmatic. I increased the size by 600% and it still seems to be
a solid circular object. Several other photos of the same part
of the sky were taken just seconds apart do not show the object.
I am willing to send photos Thanks to Peter Davenport NUFORC

CALIFORNIA - HOVERING BRIGHT RED LIGHT

LOS ANGELES -- My friends and I saw the same light that was
described but on Sunday, August 31. 2003. It appeared twice. The
first time it appeared it was 11 PM, not long after that there
were two red lights in the sky. The sky was clear, no clouds, no
glare, no nothing around it. At this time my girlfriends sister
called us in the car and we looked up through the moon roof and
there it was two bright red dots in the sky. When we got to
their house it was gone. I looked up at the sky and saw two
stars in the sky. Two hours later it came back. This time only
one bright red light appeared, and this time I had my video
camera and recorded it all on tape. The light just stayed
stationary and didn't move. Then after a few minutes it started
to blink almost like morse code. Then it disappeared. After we
recorded it, we viewed it in slow motion and at the end we saw a
stream of light moving upwards from the ground up into the sky.
A video was taken on Labor Day of a similar light and shown on
CNN and numerous TV stations around the country. NUFORC

WASHINGTON - FIREBALL CRASHES

TROUT LAKE -- At 11 AM, August 31st, a very large fireball,
green in color, came in from the west and looked as if it hit
the eastern slopes of Mt Adams. Fifteen people present at a
skywatch witnessed it. There were several other sightings that
exhibited strange behavior. One in particular had a brilliant
red point of light on the front of the object. It did not strobe
and was very high, most likely outside of the Earth's
atmosphere. On the 30th, a large triangle was spotted that made
course corrections and angle changes as it flew over. Many are
trying to say these triangles are tethered satellites; a secret
spy satellite system. Sorry, we are not buying it. There may be
such a system but it does not make right angle turns and change
angles as it flies over. We have these large triangles on film
and have seen them at tree top level. They have form; look
metallic, yet not totally physical. They flashed a bank of red
lights at the tail as they flew over. Thanks to -James Gilliland
ECETI Director http://www.eceti.org

CANADA - INTENSE WHITE LIGHT SURROUNDS AUTO

BARRIE, ONTARIO -- The witness reported that he and his wife
were driving home at 12:29 AM, on August 31, 2003, when their
car was enveloped in a very high intense white light coming from
behind them. They first thought it might have been a O.P.P.
cruiser with its spot lights on. But they soon realized that it
was something very unusual due to the light growing in size
around their vehicle and the surrounding area. The light was so
intense that it lit up the whole sky and area for five seconds.
His wife who was driving looked into the outside rear mirror and
observed an object flying up from behind them with three colored
lights that were orange, red and green. The white light which
engulfed their vehicle was so bright, that they had a very hard
time seeing and a dozen cars near by hit their brakes almost
simultaneously. Suddenly the light disappeared. After the couple
arrived home they saw some neighbors sitting outside, who also
saw it. Also the TV and radio stations and pilots were
reporting it as well.

PENTICTON - BC - A dentist and friend witnessed a massive bluish
colored ball of light on August 30, 2003, at 11:30 p.m. that was
traveling south over Okanagan Lake and left a trail behind it
for 10 to 15 minutes glowing in the night sky. Also the
witnesses noticed something dark in color in the center of the
blue ball of light. Thanks to Brian Vike, Editor: Canadian
Communicator Magazine email: hbccufo@telus.net CANADA HBCC

MEXICO - RED AND WHITE SPHERE LATER A BLACKOUT

FLORIDA SUN-SENTINEL/Reuters -- A power outage left at least
four million Mexicans in five states without electricity on
September 2, 2003. The blackout occurred before dawn in Mexico's
southern states of Yucatan, Campeche, Quintana Roo and parts of
Tabasco and Chiapas. By afternoon, power had been returned to
about 80% of the affected area. `The preliminary diagnosis is a
flaw in a transformer in the Ticul substation in Yucatan. The
Federal Electricity Commission said, "The fault, which
automatically shut down power lines, could have been caused by
lightning, a fire, or transformers.

AJIJIC -- About 10 PM, a retired oil executive and his business
administrator wife were enjoying their outdoor Jacuzzi when they
observed a red and bright white sphere on August 31, 2003, for
some 45 seconds, traveling rapidly towards the northeast. As it
approached - quite rapidly in an arc flight path below a
moderate cloud cover - it became evident that it was no
aircraft. No navigation lights, no strobe lights, no green
starboard light. There was no any engine noises. As it
approached, the red light took on a ball shape with a steady,
bright white light emitted. It disappeared to the northeast,
covering the 100 degree arc in 45 seconds. Thanks to Peter
Davenport NUFORC

UK - BLACKOUT KILLS ELECTRICITY AND UFO FLY'S CLOSE TO GLIDERS

LONDON -- Another mysterious blackout occurred last week, USA
Today reports when "power went out in London and parts of south
England, stranding thousands of commuters" for 45 minutes on
Thursday, August 28, 2003. Half a million people were affected
when the outage struck in London and Kent. Much of the London
Underground (subway) and regional trains stopped at rush hour."
"The power problem originated in two high-voltage lines
belonging to the national power grid southwest London."  On
September 5, 2003, thousands of homes were plunged into darkness
after a power cut just after 8.15 PM. EDF Energy said
electricity engineers battled to repair a fault in an
underground cable. Thanks to vmo56181@hotmail.com

BASINGSTOKE - A shiny black cylindrical object was observed at 4
PM, for about 20 minutes at a low altitude and gliders in the
vicinity on August 31, 2003. The object slowly tumbling moved at
the same speed as the clouds like a balloon. It appeared to be
solid when viewed through binoculars. It did not appear to
distort in the wind as a long balloon would. NUFORC

CAN UFO's CAUSE BLACKOUTS?

TOLEDO - On August 28, Filer's Files #36 Lissy Dunning's
reported a triangular UFO was spotted over Toledo, Ohio, a port
city at the western end of Lake Erie, the day before August 14,
blackout. Both before and after the blackout George Ritter took
photos of UFOs over Fostoria thirty miles south of Lake Erie.
Michehl Gent, president of the North American Electric
Reliability Council, said that though the cause remains unknown,
initial evidence points to the loop that encircles Lake Erie.
Gent said power on the northern side of the lake was flowing
from west to east just before the incident, and "as it unfolded,
the power reversed itself" and nearly doubled. Some 300
megawatts of electricity moving east abruptly reversed course
and within seconds 500 megawatts of power suddenly were moving
west." "The whole loop had this oscillating power phenomenon,
the blackout cascaded off the loop and spread before the
electrical system was able to stop it. Terrorism or
cyberterrorism was not the cause. It should be noted that UFOs
are frequently reported flipping and changing directions. Air
Force electronic aircraft have detected large outflows of
electric energy from UFOs, equivalent to a power station in
output. It is certainly possible that UFOs are tremendous balls
of plasma, similar to ball lightning. I have observed while
flying large clouds lit up by lightning almost continuously, it
seems possible that this tremendous energy becomes electrified
mass, held together like any cloud, and appears like a
florescent or neon light. This object under the right
circumstances can retain its energy for an extended period. It
may have a type of intelligence to maintain its life span by
attempting to capture additional energy. We have video of this
type of UFO moving towards and stopping over thunderstorms
apparently to capture more electrical energy. Many eyewitnesses
have reported seeing UFOs over power stations, and power lines.
If a UFO was taking on power it is quite possible it would cause
a tremendous drain that could cause the electrical flow to
reverse direction. Electrical engineers claim that large theft
of energy could go undetected. Twenty-four hours after the
Toledo sighting of a strange triangle-shaped craft, the
electrical lines of the Lake Erie region triggered the biggest
mass blackout in American history. An August 1st, Florida
report describes a UFO sighting that states, "It was right over
us coming FROM THE WEST TO THE EAST toward the highway at a
pretty high speed. As soon as it was directly over us IT
FLIPPED, REVERSED and started heading WEST AGAIN finally
shooting away" Each of the blackouts has UFOs reported in the
vicinity within a few days.

GERMANY - NO INCREASE IN UFO SIGHTINGS DUE TO MARS

Two German UFO reporting centers: MUFON-CES and DEGUFO state,
there has been no increase in UFO reports due to the closeness
of the planet Mars. The group GEP had also said that the Mars
hysteria has so far not caused more UFO sightings. More UFO
sightings were only reported by Werner Walter from the group
CENAP. AP reported that Walter received Mars caused UFO reports
on an almost daily basis. The unusual closeness of Mars
stimulates people's fantasy, AP wrote.
(http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/08/27/1061663855310.html

"The only thing that Mars stimulates is the fantasy of the
press," Illobrand von Ludwiger, physicist and head of MUFON-CES,
stated, "The press only reported about UFO sightings that could
be explained, consequently, interesting UFO reports don't show
up in the press," On August 29, 2003, dpa repeatedly portrayed
the German UFO investigator Werner Walter. According to Frank
Menhorn, head of DEGUFO, it was unusual that GEP was also
mentioned. Usually Werner Walter was almost exclusively the only
source and is known for identifying reported UFOs without
scrutiny," Menhorn says. Both DEGUFO and MUFON-CES talked to
UFO witnesses that rejected Werner Walters explanations.

DEGUFO spoke to two police officers in July 2002, whose sighting
was identified by Walter as a "party balloon." One of the
officers said, he was "sure that it was something else. It was
simply too fast. For me it was just a unique experience."
MUFON-CES investigated the UFO sighting of a Berlin resident in
June. After Walter identified this UFO as a "miniature balloon,"
a MUFON-CES field investigator contacted the witness. He regards
Walter's explanation as "implausible." The witness had observed
a "flat disc" that "disintegrated" over a ten-minute time span.
MUFON-CES filed the case as "unidentified" -- as more than 400
other cases. Ludwiger can imagine that the CENAP hotline indeed
gets more UFO reports, because the press predominantly reports
about it.

On June 23, 2002, dpa even wrote CENAP ran "the only reporting
center in Germany." "We feel that we are more being called by
more people that have actually seen something strange," Ludwiger
says. "On ethical grounds and from the research perspective, it
is irresponsible to tell witnesses, that they had seen something
else, something that Mr. Walter can explain himself," the
physicist says. Contrary to CENAP, MUFON-CES and DEGUFO state
there are anomalies. Since 1975, MUFON-CES investigates this
phenomenon. The groups goal is "to raise the discussion to a
scientific level and inform colleagues about the phenomenon."
DEGUFO, too, wants to help answer the UFO question. On September
13, 2003, the group has its 10th anniversary symposium with
Menhorn, Ludwiger, and ten more lecturers. Contact DEGUFO Frank
Menhorn: fmenhorn@t-online.de http://www.degufo.de MUFON-CES
Hannes la Rue: hannes.la.rue@mufon-ces.org http://www.mufon-
ces.org

FINLAND - OBJECT CHANGES SHAPE

NASTOLA --On August 28, 2003, the observer reports seeing an
object that changed its shape rapidly, and was surrounded with a
bluish haze at 10:10 PM. It moved very fast, before it stopped
for a few minutes, and then accelerated into distance after five
minutes. Thanks to Peter Davenport NUFORC

ISRAEL - TWO UFO's WERE SEEN

TEL-AVIV - The witness was up on the roof watching the sunset on
August 29, 2003, at 7:30 PM, when he saw two black spots flying
towards him for 3 minutes. He states, "I fly hot air balloons so
I am close to the aviation field. If these are helicopters, I
would hear their engines. They were too slow to be airplanes.
They flew in a structure, in a very different way from the
clouds around them and I've noticed circular spins in the way
they move. My balloon instructor happened to notice them at the
same time from a different location. We called each other to
tell each other the same crazy story! NUFORC

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Get your free report and learn how you can obtain the best real
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MUFON UFO JOURNAL -- For more detailed monthly investigative
reports subscribe to the MUFON JOURNAL. A MUFON membership
includes the Journal and costs only $35.00 per year. To join
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reserved. Readers may post the COMPLETE files on their Web Sites
if they credit the newsletter and its editor by name and list
the date of issue. These reports and comments are not
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Majorstar@aol.com. Sending mail automatically grants permission
for us to publish and use your name. Please state if you wish to
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   Sep > Sep 11

               Re: Rendlesham - Latest UFO Theory Dismissed -

From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 07:46:38 -0700
Fwd Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 10:31:18 -0400
Subject: Re: Rendlesham - Latest UFO Theory Dismissed -


>From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 23:13:44 -0300
>Subject: Re: Rendlesham - Latest UFO Theory Dismissed

>>From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 08:49:19 -0700
>>Subject: Re: Rendlesham - Latest UFO Theory Dismissed

>>>From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>>Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 10:46:40 -0300
>>>Subject: Re: Rendlesham - Latest UFO Theory Dismissed

>>>>From: David Clarke <cd292@crazydiamonds.fsnet.co.uk>
>>>>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>>>Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 08:36:37 +0100
>>>>Subject: Re: Rendlesham - Latest UFO Theory Dismissed

>>>>The log also records that 24 hours later, ie early on the 29th
>>>>there was fog again and 8 eights cloud cover.

>>>That would be eight/tenths cloud cover, right?

>>That's complete cloud cover. However, the 2.5 mile visibility
>>along with fog does suggest that the fog was spotty.

>Ten tenths is complete cloud cover. Solid overcast. Note that
>David had it as 8 eights cloud cover which is inaccurate. It
>would be 8 tenths. This however has nothing to do with
>horizontal visibility while on the ground.

Don,

Cloudiness is or was reported in eighths in the U.S. It got
started that way because the observer would estimate how much
cloud cover there was in the N, NE, E, SE, S... etc. and average
it all together. 8/eighths was complete cloud cover.

However, I admit not having checked into what the British
procedure was, if it was different and in tenths.


Jim










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                    The Vanishing Battalion at Gallipoli?

From: David Clarke <cd292@crazydiamonds.fsnet.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 16:07:49 +0100
Fwd Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 10:32:55 -0400
Subject: The Vanishing Battalion at Gallipoli?


Greetings List,

Does any List member have a copy of the the New Zealand magazine
'Spaceview' no 45 (September/October 1965) that first published
the story about the disappearing Norfolk battalion at Gallipoli?

This issued contained the statement of ANZAC sapper Frederick
Reichardt who claimed she saw a mysterious cloud swallow up an
entire British regiment during the battle for Hill 60 on 21
August 1915.

The facts about the disappearance of the 266 officers and men
were revealed in the 1991 book by Nigel McCrery ('The Vanished
Battalion') and a subsequent BBC production staring David Jason,
'All the King's Men' (1999).

I would be grateful for any references to this 'mystery' in the
UFO literature post 1965; I already have Steiger & Whritrenour
(1967), Vallee (1969), Lord Clancarty and Barry Greenwood's
article on the appearance of the story in 1st Annual Report of
MJ-12.


All best wishes,

Dave Clarke








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                  Re: Did 1995 Circle Predict Something for

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker@earthlink.net>
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 12:12:06 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 10:37:36 -0400
Subject: Re: Did 1995 Circle Predict Something for


>From: Loren Coleman <lcoleman@maine.rr.com>
>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 08:37:57 -0400
>Subject: Re: Did 1995 Circle Predict Something for September 6?

>>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker@earthlink.net>
>>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 09:39:41 -0400
>>Subject: Re: Did 1995 Circle Predict Something for September 6?

>Ray Stanford sends in another in this thread on Sat, 6 Sep 2003,
>and says, in part...

>>Please be aware that we are on the internet, and there are
>>probably, for example, relatively inexperienced children who
>>could come across that kind of crap and take such diseased
>>thinking seriously. History proves that such 'diseases' can be
>>highly contagious. You are knowledgeable enough that I don't
>>think it necessary to describe examples.
>>Discretion is the better part of valor.

>Mr. Stanford is fast to give advice when he is caught with his
>own mistakes exposed. I was falsely criticized on this List for
>comments that, if he is not now lying, I would assume that he
>knew were not mine. Nonsense, he directly posted comments about
>me, and yet they were approved and posted to this List. He
>attacks and slams, and gets his posts on the List. Where are the
>ones (other than mine) that tried to counterbalance his
>arrogant style?

>Mr. Stanford is the one using words like "bullshit" and "crap"
>in his critiques of this material, and if he was really
>concerned about "inexperienced children" reading this list, how
>does he justify his tone?

<snip>

Well, "bullshit" and "crap" are exactly what the September 6
prediction turned out to be, so chalk one up for good common
sense.

Loren Coleman, you are the one who passed along that crock
without any cautionary note, and I was simply holding you
responsible for passing such madness along without a caveat.

It seems to me you completely ignore the criticism I presented
and thrive on passing along foolishness such as we have seen in
the post under discussion and concerning fantasized correlations
about deaths of persons who had even the most remote
relationship to past 'events' such as those promoted by the
likes of the late Gray Barker, and later begging off by
declaring it to have been Fortean humor!

Consider: If a researcher for a major TV documentary 'dropped
in' on this list and saw the likes of what you have been posting
here, what might happen to the reputation of UFO studies if it
were presented in the production as characteristic of
foolishness among UFO-interested people? That would do us as a
community no favors toward a good public image.

By contrast, if such outsiders as researchers for TV
documentaries on UFOs see that at least some of us are not
buying such stuff as you and a few others have posted, and that
we are willing to call it what it is in unambiguous terms, then
at least they know we are not all wide-eye and fuzzy minded.

I consider it good to teach children to reject the extremely
irrational and call crap what it is. If you, Loren, think the
use of such strong words is teaching Children "bad words" :),
then you must be very out of touch with the 21st century idiom
of most persons as young as five!

Furthermore, I suspect Errol realizes that a lot of what we deal
with on this List is potentially laden with strong feelings, and
in his wisdom does not unduly censor expressions that are mere
figures of speech.

You ask, "Where are the ones (other than mine) that tried to
counterbalance his arrogant style?"

I see nothing arrogant about calling the irresponsible passing
along of crap (sans caveat) a crappy thing to do.

And, so I would ask, in turn, paraphrasing that question: Where
are the ones who would speak out against the de facto
advertising of such madness as the September 6 'prediction'
without due commentary? Well, I don't know where the others who
object to such might be, if they exist on this list, but I shall
continue to call foolishness as I see it, unless Errol objects
and asks me to do otherwise.

Loren, you seem more emotionally involved in this than I had
anticipated. Sorry for my oversight. Next time I shall wear my
eggshell walking sneakers. :)

Ray Stanford

"You know my method. It is founded upon the observance of
trifles." -- Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery








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                  Rendlesham - Latest UFO Theory Dismissed

From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 09:20:35 -0700
Fwd Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 10:39:48 -0400
Subject: Rendlesham - Latest UFO Theory Dismissed


>From: Martin Shough <mshough@parcellular.fsnet.co.uk>
>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 14:27:40 +0100
>Subject: Re: Rendlesham - Latest UFO Theory Dismissed

>>From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 23:13:44 -0300
>>Subject: Re: Rendlesham - Latest UFO Theory Dismissed

>>>From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>>Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 08:49:19 -0700
>>>Subject: Re: Rendlesham - Latest UFO Theory Dismissed

>>>>From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
>>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>>>>From: David Clarke <cd292@crazydiamonds.fsnet.co.uk>
>>>>>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>>>>Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 08:36:37 +0100
>>>>>Subject: Re: Rendlesham - Latest UFO Theory Dismissed

>>>>>The log also records that 24 hours later, ie early on the 29th
>>>>>there was fog again and 8 eights cloud cover.

>>>>That would be eight/tenths cloud cover, right?

>>>That's complete cloud cover. However, the 2.5 mile visibility
>>>along with fog does suggest that the fog was spotty.

>>Ten tenths is complete cloud cover. Solid overcast. Note that
>>David had it as 8 eights cloud cover which is inaccurate. It
>>would be 8 tenths. This however has nothing to do with
>>horizontal visibility while on the ground.

This little question of cloud-cover reporting raised my
curiosity of how the awkward reporting in eighths came about.
Better reasons exist than the one I guessed at previously. (a)
For meteorological purposes on weather maps, the cloud cover
could be better depicted within the "station circle" (which has
the wind barb extending from it) by blacking out one quadrant in
the case of 2/8 cloud cover, one quadrant plus a line for 3/8,
etc. This better allowed the weatherman to tell at a glance
where the cloudiness was. (b) In reporting cloud cover over the
teletypes, they could conserve space by using only one digit for
the cloud cover: 0 for clear, 1 for 1/8, 2 for 2/8... 8 for
overcast. Otherwise, they'd need to use both 0 for clear and 10
(two digits) for overcast.

For climatological records, they generally convert the cloud
cover from eighths to tenths.

My apologies to ebk for this non-UFO stuff.


Jim









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               Re: Rendlesham - Latest UFO Theory Dismissed -

From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 14:28:06 -0300
Fwd Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 10:42:23 -0400
Subject: Re: Rendlesham - Latest UFO Theory Dismissed -


>From: Martin Shough <mshough@parcellular.fsnet.co.uk>
>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 14:27:40 +0100
>Subject: Re: Rendlesham - Latest UFO Theory Dismissed

>>From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 23:13:44 -0300
>>Subject: Re: Rendlesham - Latest UFO Theory Dismissed

>>>From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>>Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 08:49:19 -0700
>>>Subject: Re: Rendlesham - Latest UFO Theory Dismissed

>>>>From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
>>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>>>Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 10:46:40 -0300
>>>>Subject: Re: Rendlesham - Latest UFO Theory Dismissed

<snip>

>>>>That would be eight/tenths cloud cover, right?

>>>That's complete cloud cover. However, the 2.5 mile visibility
>>>along with fog does suggest that the fog was spotty.

>>Ten tenths is complete cloud cover. Solid overcast. Note that
>>David had it as 8 eights cloud cover which is inaccurate. It
>>would be 8 tenths. This however has nothing to do with
>>horizontal visibility while on the ground.

>>The 2.5 mile vis - probably with foggy patches [light fog or as
>>it's typed, - fog] suggests that there was terrain extending
>>upward to the cloud cover and between the tower and low cloud
>>cover giving the visibility at 2.5 miles.

>>There are about a hundred variables to this fog, cloud and vis
>>situation. The best bet is to get the area met forecast for that
>>night.

>UK Met Office cloud reports are traditionally in eighths, not
>tenths, so if Dave's source is a UK source then 8/8ths as
>originally quoted is very likely correct.


Hi Martin..

Yeah, I wondered if that might be the case. But it ocurred to me
that since the pilots call in and get weather while flying
internationally that the Mets would have been standardized, at
least in North America and the UK. I guess there are some areas
that the ICAO doesn't affect. But that could be the Met offices
rather than aviation criteria.


Thanks,

Don Ledger





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                Montebello Residents Saw Red Flashing Lights

From: Eustaquio Andrea Patounas <socex@terra.com.br>
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 14:34:10 -0300
Fwd Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 10:54:41 -0400
Subject: Montebello Residents Saw Red Flashing Lights


Source: San Gabriel Valley Tribune, California

http://www.sgvtribune.com/Stories/0,1413,205%7E12220%7E1621402,00.html

September 09 2003

Montebello residents saw red flashing lights Aug. 30

By Ben Baeder
Staff Writer

MONTEBELLO -- As he looks up at a bright moon, spindly shadows
fall across John Gonzalez's face through the branches of a small
tree on his front lawn.

It's a Saturday night, and just like nearly every night since
they saw a strange red light in the sky on Aug. 30, Gonzalez and
a handful of other residents on 20th Street in Montebello are
out looking for UFOs.

Twice in late August most recently on Aug. 30 residents say they
saw strange, flashing red lights high in the skies above
Montebello, triggering the near-nightly vigils on Gonzalez's
block.

As he surveys the skies, his friend cleans the lens of a
telescope on a tripod. Next door, another neighbor and his son
lie on blankets on their front lawn; a video camera perched atop
a tripod is at the ready.

While the residents swear they saw something very unusual,
nobody not police or local aerospace agencies has given them a
satisfactory explanation as to what it was.

"It was something military, or something advanced,' Gonzalez
believes. He recalled how in the past witnesses confused the
stealth bomber with a UFO. "Maybe it will be like the stealth
bomber. You know, all these people seeing this strange flying
triangle in the desert, then, like 10 years later, we finally
find out what it was.'

The residents' accounts of the weird light are nearly all alike.
They say the light slowly moved up from the horizon, then began
to turn onto a path parallel to the horizon. The light then
emitted a bright flash and began moving faster. It disappeared
and reappeared a few times, then faded away.

According to the National Unidentified Flying Object Reporting
Center's Web site, the object was first reported on Aug. 24.
Three more sightings were made on Aug. 30, the Web site said.

Several residents videotaped the object.

Officials at the Federal Aviation Administration, the U.S. Air
Force and the Jet Propulsion Laboratory in La Canada Flintridge
all said they have no record of anything abnormal in the skies
on Aug. 24 or Aug. 30.

Fear of ridicule caused some witnesses to decline to give their
names to a reporter. One man, who said he scans the skies now
nightly with binoculars, said he's worried people might think
he's crazy.

"I have a high-profile job. There's no way I can let you use my
name.'

Witnesses said they spotted the light as they were looking at
Mars, which was closer to Earth on Aug. 28 than it had been in
66,000 years. But they swear the object was not Mars.

George Djorgovski, an astronomer at Caltech in Pasadena, said
the light was most likely an airplane, while other astronomers
said that Mars can appear to move if stared at for long periods.

Whatever the light was, it hasn't returned since Aug. 30. But
that hasn't stopped Montebello's nightly UFO watchers for gazing
skyward.

"As long as there are no laser beams coming down, we're cool
with it,' said Gonzalez.










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   Sep > Sep 11

                          Secrecy News -- 09/10/03

From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood@fas.org>
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 14:08:53 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 11:14:45 -0400
Subject: Secrecy News -- 09/10/03


SECRECY NEWS
from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy
Volume 2003, Issue No. 74
September 10, 2003


**      AIR FORCE TAKES GULF WAR STUDY OFFLINE
**      MORE ON THE BUTLER CASE
**      TELLER ON SECRECY


AIR FORCE TAKES GULF WAR STUDY OFFLINE

Citing unspecified security concerns, the U.S. Air Force has
taken offline the widely circulated text of the 1993 Gulf War
Air Power Survey, a highly regarded study of the air campaign in
the first Gulf War.

It is merely one instance of a continuing government-wide trend
of removing unclassified information from public access on the
web, at the National Archives, and elsewhere.  The full scope of
this unsettling practice has not been clearly recognized or
measured.

"The Air Force Declassification Office has requested removal of
the ... Gulf War Air Power Survey (GWAPS), all volumes, from
this website until a determination can be made on potentially
sensitive information that needs coordination with other
agencies," according to a notice posted on the web site of the
Air War College at Maxwell Air Force Base:

http://www.au.af.mil/au/awc/awcgate/awc-hist.htm#gulf

This comes as a bit of a surprise, since the GWAPS "was
published in unclassified form a decade ago -- we bought it in
hardcopy at that time," recalled John Pike of
GlobalSecurity.org, who spotted the Air Force notice.

In fact, the Air Power Survey, led by Thomas A. Keaney and Eliot
A. Cohen, was something of a best-seller by Government Printing
Office standards, and it remains for sale today in hard copy,
through the GPO and various online booksellers.

"There is nothing remotely classified in it," acknowledged one
Maxwell Air Force Base official today.  He said that the
Pentagon had directed that the study be taken offline sometime
last year and had still not authorized its reposting.

"We do what the Pentagon wants even when we don't understand
it," he said.

Secrecy News was able to recover the text of all six volumes of
the Gulf War Air Power Survey (minus a few graphics and tables)
which are now posted here:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/library/index.html#gwaps


MORE ON THE BUTLER CASE

The aggressive prosecution of the Texas Tech University medical
professor Thomas C. Butler on charges of illegally transporting
plague bacteria continues to make waves within the scientific
community, some of whose leading members view the matter as
prosecutorial overkill.

An August 15 letter to Attorney General Ashcroft from the
presidents of the National Academy of Sciences and the Institute
of Medicine, expressing concern about the case is now available
here:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/2003/08/nas081503.pdf

Among the pernicious aspects of the Butler prosecution is the
fact that "it generates pressure for biodefense scientists to be
secretive" about their work, said Edward Hammond of the watchdog
Sunshine Project.

The case makes it easier for university laboratories and others
"to say, apparently accurately, that they are not sure what
information they can release, because they can get into major
trouble if they err," Mr. Hammond said.

See also "Smallpox expert decries treatment of two scientists"
by John Dudley Miller, The Scientist, September 5:

http://www.biomedcentral.com/news/20030905/04

and "Plague researcher charged with new crimes" by Peg Brickley,
The Scientist, September 4:

http://www.biomedcentral.com/news/20030904/04


TELLER ON SECRECY

Physicist Edward Teller, who died September 9, was a forceful
critic of government secrecy, particularly secrecy in scientific
matters, which he considered self-defeating and detrimental to
the national interest.

"A short time ago, the Soviet Union was the most secretive
organization in the world; it no longer exists," he wrote in
1992.

"This puts the United States in the uncomfortable position of
holding the record in secrecy.  It is urgent that we do
something about this situation...."  (Issues in Science and
Technology, Vol. IX, No. 1, Fall 1992, p. 6).

"Our keeping of secrets has often misled and confused our own
people but has been ineffective in denying information to our
enemies or competitors."

"Let us pass a law requiring all secret documents to be
published one year after their issuance," he proposed, to no
visible effect.

Teller was a contributor to the 1970 Defense Science Board Task
Force Report on Secrecy, which remains one of the best short
critiques of national security classification policy.  The text
of the Report is posted here:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/othergov/dsbrep.html



_______________________________________________
Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the
Federation of American Scientists.

To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to
secrecy_news-request@lists.fas.org

OR email your request to saftergood@fas.org

Secrecy News is archived at:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html

_______________________
Steven Aftergood
Project on Government Secrecy
Federation of American Scientists
web:    www.fas.org/sgp/index.html
email:  saftergood@fas.org
voice:  (202) 454-4691






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   Sep > Sep 11

                            The Belzer Connection

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren@pacbell.net>
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 11:42:14 -0700
Fwd Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 11:18:07 -0400
Subject: The Belzer Connection


Good Day Fellow Listerians,

I have to say that I have been completely "stumped" by the Sci-Fi
Channel's regression of their public support in regards to serious
investigation of the UFO phenomenon, by airing shows such as
"The Belzer Connection." (As well as some of the other bilge that
appears on Tuesday nights).

If they think that surrounding notables in the field of Ufology
- such as Stan Friedman no less - with comedians such as Al
Franken, who seemed more interested in Stan's eyebrows, then the
subject at hand, is in anyway contributing in a positive manner
to the field of Ufology, they really need to wake up and smell
the coffee!

"The Belzer Connection" in my humble opinion seemed to be a copy
of TNN's "The Conspiracy Zone," hosted by Saturday Night
illumni, Kevin Nealon; it had/has the same format i.e., some
notables in the field and some comedians in front of a live
audience; the concern apparently to keep the audience laughing.

On the flip side, if you go to one of the attributes of "The
Sci-Fi channel... you'll be impressed with the goals mentioned
at:

http://www.freedomofinfo.org/

There, in the mission statement it reads, "Achieving
scientific, congressional and media credibility for the study of
unexplained aerial phenomena while working for the release of
official information and physical evidence." It further states
that the goals are:

*Scientific Credibility

*Congressional Interest and Action

*Serious Media Coverage

*Case Investigations and FOIA Requests.

These of course are very noble ideals and are welcomed to the
field; however one has to wonder how these can be accomplished
when the very same entity that helped form CFI produces "drivel"
such as that of the "Belzer Connection." Promoting and airing
such shows that make light of Ufology, does not conform to
achieving the afore mentioned goals - in fact it does much harm!

The folks at Sci-Fi need to realize they can't have it both
ways. Either focus on making a buck and keep to their name-sake,
i.e., science fiction, and apparently comedy; staying out of
Ufology altogether, or stay focused on the afore mentioned goals
of CFI and stop mixing the two with each other!


Regards,

Frank Warren







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                Re: John Ford Redux (SDI 6 September, 2003) -

From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com>
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 12:31:22 -0700
Fwd Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 11:27:03 -0400
Subject: Re: John Ford Redux (SDI 6 September, 2003) -


>From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 05:18:36 -0500
>Subject: Re: John Ford Redux (SDI 6 September, 2003)

>>From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com>
>>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 11:37:40 -0700
>>Subject: Re: John Ford Redux (SDI 6 September, 2003)

>>>From: Michael Christol <spachopr@bellsouth.net>
>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>>Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 19:56:16 -0500
>>>Subject: Re: John Ford Redux (SDI 6 September, 2003)

>>>>From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
>>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>>>Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2003 09:56:55 -0500
>>>>Subject: John Ford Redux (SDI 6 September, 2003)

>>><snip>

>>>I know John Ford. I exchanged info with him and helped spread
>>>his investigation into the crash of an alien space craft near
>>>Moriches Bay on September 28th,1989...through out the MUFONET
>>>Back bone, prior to the Internet, via BBS"s, (Bulletin Board
>>>Systems.)

>>For the record, Mr. Ford also attempted to curry favorable
>>reporting from ParaNet at the time of the Moriches Bay
>>'incident'. We chose to pass. Let history judge our decision.

>Ok, Mr Speiser, in as much as these three sentences fairly drip
>with negative assessment, bad criticism, and disqualifying
>innuendo... what history are _you_ counting on? Was Ford's
>ethical behavior something less than I indicated it was? Was
>his community efficacy in any way other than was reported? Were
>the facts regarding John Powell's criminality, and John Ford's
>even oblique investigation of that criminality improperly
>iterated?

I really don't remember much about his legal problems. My
comments were focused on his crash/retrieval report, which we
found wanting in terms of credibility.


==JJS==






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               Re: Rendlesham - Latest UFO Theory Dismissed -

From: Gary Anthony <mithrand@mithrand.karoo.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 21:42:22 +0100
Fwd Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 11:32:21 -0400
Subject: Re: Rendlesham - Latest UFO Theory Dismissed -


>From: Martin Shough <mshough@parcellular.fsnet.co.uk>
>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 14:27:40 +0100
>Subject: Re: Rendlesham - Latest UFO Theory Dismissed

>>From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 23:13:44 -0300
>>Subject: Re: Rendlesham - Latest UFO Theory Dismissed

>>>From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>>Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 08:49:19 -0700
>>>Subject: Re: Rendlesham - Latest UFO Theory Dismissed

>>>>From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
>>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>>>Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 10:46:40 -0300
>>>>Subject: Re: Rendlesham - Latest UFO Theory Dismissed

>>>>>From: David Clarke <cd292@crazydiamonds.fsnet.co.uk>
>>>>>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>>>>Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 08:36:37 +0100
>>>>>Subject: Re: Rendlesham - Latest UFO Theory Dismissed

>>>>>The log also records that 24 hours later, ie early on the 29th
>>>>>there was fog again and 8 eights cloud cover.

>>>>That would be eight/tenths cloud cover, right?

>>>That's complete cloud cover. However, the 2.5 mile visibility
>>>along with fog does suggest that the fog was spotty.

>>Ten tenths is complete cloud cover. Solid overcast. Note that
>>David had it as 8 eights cloud cover which is inaccurate. It
>>would be 8 tenths. This however has nothing to do with
>>horizontal visibility while on the ground.

>>The 2.5 mile vis - probably with foggy patches [light fog or as
>>it's typed, - fog] suggests that there was terrain extending
>>upward to the cloud cover and between the tower and low cloud
>>cover giving the visibility at 2.5 miles.

>>There are about a hundred variables to this fog, cloud and vis
>>situation. The best bet is to get the area met forecast for that
>>night.

>UK Met Office cloud reports are traditionally in eighths, not
>tenths, so if Dave's source is a UK source then 8/8ths as
>originally quoted is very likely correct.


Hi List,

Martin and David Clarke are correct, 8th's and not 10th's are
correct for cloud density measurement in the United Kingdom.
Moreover, somewhere I have the MET weather reports and other
astronomical information contemporaneous to the alleged
Rendlesham encounters, if I can locate them after having house
refurbishments I'll make an effort to post them to the List.


Best Regards

Gary Anthony








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   Sep > Sep 11

                   Re: More Bentwaters Information - Pope

From: Nick Pope <nick@popemod.freeserve.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 21:49:00 +0100
Fwd Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 11:38:18 -0400
Subject: Re: More Bentwaters Information - Pope


>From: David Clarke <cd292@crazydiamonds.fsnet.co.uk>
>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 08:50:36 +0100
>Subject: Re: More Bentwaters Information

>>From: Nick Pope <nick@popemod.freeserve.co.uk>
>>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 19:10:43 +0100
>>Subject: Re: More Bentwaters Information

>>>From: David Clarke <cd292@crazydiamonds.fsnet.co.uk>
>>>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>>Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 16:28:53 +0100
>>>Subject: Re: More Bentwaters Information

>>As you say though, this should be a simple matter to resolve. A
>>brief request to the USAFE Office of Public Affairs at Ramstein
>>AFB should clear the matter up once and for all. Remember that
>>as I explained in my earlier post (see above), the question
>>isn't whether there was or wasn't an alert condition, it's what
>>the alert condition was. I recommend that to cover all the
>>bases, so to speak, the question should mention both Bentwaters
>>and Woodbridge, and cover the dates 25 - 30 December 1980.

>I'm glad that you agree this would be an easy matter to resolve.
>I'm happy to write to Ramstein and ask the question if it is
>going to cause you any problems. If that's what you would prefer
>let me know and I will post whatever reply I receive on the List
>for everyone to see.

>If it emerges there was no alert, or any alert that would have
>necessitated two law enforcement officers being on duty, then we
>can draw a line under this once and for all. I think you will
>agree that it is pointless wasting time and energy arguing about
>something until the facts have been established.

Dave and List,

That's fine with me, and I look forward to seeing the response.
While I could approach USAFE myself, this might be perceived as
inappropriate, given that I still work for the MOD.

Should it be revealed that the alert condition was a low one,
requiring only standard vigilance, then we could indeed rule out
Kevin Conde's alleged prank, because he says it took place while
he was accompanied, which only happened during an exercise or
alert.

That said, another relevant factor is the work done by local
researcher Robert McLean, who has mapped out the location of
Conde's alleged hoax, and shown that even if it did take place
as claimed, it could have explained neither the first night's
UFO sightings, nor the activity witnessed by Halt and his team
on a subsequent night.

As you're aware, Robert's research and my comments about the
misunderstanding over the alert condition were posted on another
list, on which Kevin Conde had been posting.  Unfortunately,
Conde didn't respond, and the moderator promptly closed the
thread.

Best wishes,

Nick Pope







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                     Project Bluebook Field Operatives?

From: Keith Chester <projectbluebook@erols.com>
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 17:31:37 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 11:39:31 -0400
Subject: Project Bluebook Field Operatives?


Hello List,

Can anyone tell me if there was a dress code for field
operatives working under Project Bluebook when conducting an
investigation?

Were the field agents given discretionary latitude with clothing
or was the Air Force blues worn at all times?


Thank you,

Keith Chester







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              Re: HBCC UFO: Missing Time Update & Photos - Vike

From: Brian Vike <hbccufo@telus.net>
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 18:39:04 -0700
Fwd Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 11:50:06 -0400
Subject: Re: HBCC UFO: Missing Time Update & Photos - Vike


>From: Colin Stevenson <colin@c2k2.fsworld.co.uk>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 23:36:46 +0100
>Subject: Re: HBCC UFO: Missing Time Update & Photos

>>From: HBCC UFO <hbccufo@telus.net>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>>Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 01:28:08 -0700
>>Subject: HBCC UFO: Missing Time Update - Photos

>>Update:

>>I interviewed the second witness who I have named "Linda" in my
>>report. She explained her account of the events which she
>>remembers. It wasn't until the next morning when she became
>>aware of the burnt marks on her lower spine and of course the
>>problems with her nose bleeding badly. After her stay with her
>>friend, who was also involved with the missing time event, she
>>made a visit to her doctor when she arrived home due to the pain
>>radiating from her lower back. Her doctor looked at it and was
>>baffled. The doctor said if he didn't know any better the burn
>>marks looked like radiation burns. Tests were performed and
>>Linda was treated. The wound eventually started to clear up, but
>>for some unknown reason, which again surprised her doctor the
>>wound took a turn for the worse which is shown in picture number
>>#1.

>>As of today, September 9, 2003 two picture were taken, and in
>>both photos the burn marks seem to be clearing at this time.

>>Below are three pictures I received from the ladies who had the
>>missing time in Kelowna, British Columbia. The name of the lady
>>who shows the burn mark is fictitious for obvious reasons. In my
>>report above I called her Linda and was the passenger in the car
>>that night.

>>In the first photo, the wound had healed up somewhat, but it
>>took a turn for the worse and the results are shown in picture
>>number #1. I was told that the doctor is stumped due to not
>>knowing why the wound will not heal. Also the doctor reports
>>that he still does not know what caused it.
>
>>In the second photo taken today, September 8, 2003, early
>>morning it shows that it seems to be again healing up.
>
>>The third and last photo, taken today, September 8, 2003 at
>>10:50 p.m. seems to look the same with no changes from the early
>>morning shot. Let us hope the wound completely heals up.

>>My many thanks to the ladies for providing these pictures to a
>>very important event. I would also like to add that if others
>>have been through this, or are going through a similar
>>experience I would like to hear from them. It seems to help
>>others knowing they are not a lone in all of this.

>Whilst experimenting with free energy production in massive
>amounts I suffered similar burns all over my legs. I was
>producing 3 KW. Some know this to be similar to Saint Elmo's
>fire. Healing was also very slow indeed, similar to this case,
>coming and going over a period of 3 weeks. Very painful and very
>itchy indeed. Vitamin B6 and A I found were useful as is a local
>anti histamine cream and tablets. Also considered increasing my
>iodine intake but didn't, in the end, need to.

>Just thought it tallied with the information posted.


Hi Colin

Thank you for the input and I will pass it along to the ladies.
If a good idea works, then all things should be pursued for
sure.


Thanks again,

Brian








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                   Re: Last Saturday Night On SDI - Velez

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 19:31:41 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 11:52:42 -0400
Subject: Re: Last Saturday Night On SDI - Velez


>From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 01:46:22 -0300
>Subject: Re: Last Saturday Night On SDI

>>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
>>Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 14:28:01 -0400
>>Subject: Last Saturday Night On SDI

>>It's Tuesday and still not a peep on the List about the testimony
>>we heard from air traffic controller, Enrique Kolbeck on SDI
>>Saturday night. Did _anybody_ catch the interview?
>
>>EBK has posted it at:
>
>>http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/sdi/program/sdi2003.html
>
>>for anyone who missed it. Its program #256
>
>>Anyway...
>
>>On Saturday night Jaime Maussan along with Enrique Kolbeck, one
>>of Mexico City airports' air traffic controllers, gave shocking
>>testimony about a 'safety problem' being posed to pilots and air
>>traffic support personnel by "UFOs" in Mexico City's airspace.

><snip>

Hi Don, All,

You wrote:

>I'm not sure whether many in the UFO field get the significance
>of having the sanctity of controlled airspace, violated. Pilots
>regularly get suspended or lose licenses for lesser infractions
>in controlled airspace than operating their aircraft in the
>pattern or getting in the way of another sanctioned aircraft on
>approach or during climbout particulary with the "heavies"
>carrying hundreds of passengers.

>It suddenly becomes a federal matter involving certain agencies
>of the affected country. UFOs have been doing this and seemingly
>with impunity.

These people and this issue may just be the _practical_ wedge
we've needed with officialdom. One they will not easily
side-step, if made into a public issue. Powerful tool, man.

This air safety issue is just what the doctor ordered. We really
need to collect all of these professional witnesses, credible
people who are willing to testify, under one 'roof'. Do you have
any idea 'where' Dick Haines and Ted Roe are in terms of having
knowledge of, or interest in, all of these Mexican aviator and
technical personnel reports? Is Mexico simply outside of their
purview?

I'm not letting this one go by the boards, Don. It's way too
important. If I have to, I'll do the job of collecting and
cataloging the Mexican information myself - if for no other
reason than to insure it gets done.

Out of politics and prejudice Mexico and everything that comes
from there is too easily blown off and disregarded by many North
Americans. That attitude cannot be allowed to prevail. Not if it
interferes with the process of enlightening and informing the
public about the reality of the UFO presence on our world.

>Reports by pilots and AT controllers have been met with either
>puzzlement, stoney indifference or some wry comments - usually
>associated with little green men. When the shoe is on the other
>foot and the controller either witnesses this event or the
>Terminal Controller views the computer generated return on his
>screen, they are met with silence upon reporting it. There's an
>incident report filed and that's about it.

>There is an opportunity here to pressure the authorities to act
>on their own regulations.

Yes, there most certainly is. But to insure its success it needs
to be an _international_ effort. Mexican pilots and ground crew
reporting publicly alongside of their multinational counterparts
would be _overwhelming_ testimony.

Now there is a 'road show' worth taking around the world! Go
from country to country conducting national press meetings and
letting the people of the world hear the testimony of the very
people who are responsible for their safety in the air.

Let em make up their own minds whether they wish to pursue the
issue or not.

We could/should circumvent officialdom completely. Make an 'end
run'. After such a series of multinational media events, it'll
simply be too late. The world will know. They won't be able to
ignore it out of hand, or to 'put the Genie back in the bottle'.

>I think they do this in any event, but not openly.

That's been a major part of the problem all along... too many
secrets. Too much gets swept under the rug. It's time that
old school WWII 'keep secrets' mentality bites the dust.

>They can't ignore what is an obvious safety issue.

No, they can't. That is why it is so very important to follow up
on this and not let it all go by as so many other good and
practical ideas are wont to do.

<snip>

>But what is being ignored is safety - and that's what NARCAP is
>concentrating on, among other issues.

Seems to me that Dick Haines and Ted Roe concentrate on American
cases while you focus on the Canadian reports. Who handles a job
like this that involves a 'foreign' nation?

NARCAP? Is there anybody else?

>As for tracking down the other AT controllers in Mexico, that
>won't be easy from my location. I'm moving and building at the
>same time. But it's a case I plan to pursue. But any others out
>there that have some expertise in this area are welcome to wade
>in as well.

Maybe Dick and Ted will come to the rescue, but I'm not waiting
to see if they will or they won't. I'm going to make certain
that all of this important information is gathered and
cataloged. More important, I'm going to make it my business to
make sure that as many people know about this issue as it is
possible for me to reach.

>Sorry for the length-but it is an omnibus subject.

Not at all. It is terribly important.

Regards, and thanks for being there on Saturday night, Don. You
did a bang-up job.


John Velez







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                     Disclosure Dialogue 01-07 - A Plan

From: Victor Viggiani <zland@sympatico.ca>
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 23:33:14 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 11:59:08 -0400
Subject: Disclosure Dialogue 01-07 - A Plan



Disclosure Dialogue Vol 1 Ed 7

Canberra Australia

11 September 2003

After interviewing the co-ordinator of Disclosure Australia,
Keith Basterfield on Strange Days Indeed 23 Aug 2003 and then
reviewing the Canadian UFO scene it becomes apparent that
Disclosure Australia's mission to unite research groups has much
to offer UFO organizations in Canada and possibly in other
countries. A unified effort that seeks to build on public
curiosity, engage media and challenge elected officials could
transform the public relevance of the ETI/UFO issue.

The proposal below offers a similar mission and an interesting
contrast in structure.

BACKGROUND

What would it take to unite the major UFO research organizations
in Canada or in any other country for that matter within a
national affiliation or network?

How would a co-operative of these organizations function to
utilize public reports of verifiable UFO  sightings allowing
citizens to not only report them to UFO organizations but also
inform local elected representatives and media of their
concerns?

Could this type of effort help politicize disclosure efforts?

How could a comprehensive national plan involve and educate
citizens?

It is clear that in the Canadian experience, hundreds of
reliable reports are accumulated yearly in the Canadian UFO
Survey to educate and inform, but this valuable annual accretion
of substantive data has yet to ignite media curiosity and any
form of political interest.

It may be possible to engage the public in a plan not only to
report UFOs but also to engage media, government and society
itself in an act of political activism.

THE PLAN

It is a simple one.

Stage One:  Unification Through a Preliminary Initiative

The Preliminary Step

Using one of Canada s existing UFO research organizations as a
flagship model, establish a comprehensive DISCLOSURE link on
their web site.

Content and action plans on this link would serve to direct and
encourage those who visit the site and those who report a UFO to
take another important step. The purpose of the content and
action plan within the link is to acquaint and encourage all
visitors and those who make a reliable report with the need to
become aware of broader disclosure issues and to notify both
media outlets and government officials that these issues are of
great concern to a wide and growing portion of society.

 On the site s DISCLOSURE link the following will be available:

1. A List, in simple format, of the e-mail and regular addresses
of all Federal MPs in the province; leaders of the Opposition,
the Prime Minister and all Cabinet Ministers. All addresses are
also available on the Canadian Parliament web site. (see below)

2. A sample e-mail to encourage all who report a sighting to any
Canadian organization to take one step more; forward the e-mail,
one of their own or a regular letter to their local Federal MP,
the Prime Minister and Federal Cabinet and Leaders of the
Opposition articulating their concern for answers. (see below)

3. A List of the e-mail addresses for the editors, producers and
journalists of all major and local TV and radio stations and
newspaper media outlets in each province and nationally. The
same type of correspondence would be forwarded to each media
outlet as a CC.

In my work to communicate with and information elected officials
and media it has become clear from their responses to me that
they (media and elected officials) are not hearing from the
public and the vast numbers of individuals who report sightings.
Therefore, to them none of this is an 'issue'. It remains
relegated to the outer fringe of concern among those in media
and government who can make a difference by raising the issues
in governmental and media forums.

One radio station at one time had a PR catch phrase: 'We're
talking about what you're talking about." The bottom line here
is that elected officials and media need to hear from the
public.

OTHER CONTENT

In addition to e-mail addresses, the DISCLOSURE link would
include issue related educational material. The material would
outline the nature of and urgency about why the UAP issue must
receive immediate and on-going attention; a curriculum to
provide educational resources allowing citizens to not only
become more informed themselves but also to educate their own
elected representative.

A Summary of the educational issues:

 a. Governments have known about the issue for over 56 years.

b. Democratic Governments have been constitutionally granted the
right to keep secrets from the citizenry, but not the right to
lie to them.

c. Media is well aware of the issue, covers it in a silly and
trite manner thus trivializing an issue that will one day have
massive large global impact.

d. If the propulsion and flight capabilities of these craft,
whatever they are, utilize an energy source unlike any we are
aware of on the planet (electrogravitic, electromagnetic, so
called 'free energy'),

then,

    i) Why is there no serious investigation and release of
information about a form of propulsion that could ostensibly
eliminate or seriously reduce the use of fossil fuels globally?

    ii) Why is there no recognition that sustained media
attention and public discourse on this issue could eventually
lead to unshackling the planet from the noose of negative global
behaviours that continue to:

strangle the planet's environment by destroying its
biodiversity, keep a global hegemony of rich nations and
families in control of the  distribution of wealth, maintain
ubiquitous levels of poverty and hunger, deny clean water to
Third World countries, debilitate disease management, and
suppress radically new technologies?

iii) Why is there little attention paid to the unending cycle of
global violence spun by the geo-political control of oil
resources by Western democracies; when, there is the strong
possibility that vastly superior and less life threatening
energy sources may actually exist? These possibilities are
ignored and remain unexamined by mainstream media.

iv) Ending the reign of fossil fuels and the technologies based
on their use in a logical, responsible and articulated manner
could radically re-align geo-political resources and seriously
address issues of poverty, disease, hunger, medical advances,
the environment and possibly begin to resolve the seemingly
unending geo-political cycle of terror we all fear so much. The
anniversary of September 11th magnifies the portentous gravity
of the need to resolve these human issues.

e. Finally, an ultimate correlation is created; one fundamental
ideological position:

Issues of sequestered truth, government honesty and the global
environment can be linked, by UFO organizations, to the issue of
a palpable presence of a UFO/ET phenomenon substantiated by
years of research.

The UFO community is well positioned to articulate this
correlation without bias or qualification. The evidence is
indeed that strong. Once we have established the ideological
connection between these two imperatives, the next order of
business becomes an active discourse among the media, the
general public and our elected officials in government.

In addition, three compelling sets of circumstances will format
part of the educational resource package on the web site link:

1. The UN Petition* - Global Activism:

The Petition to the United Nations requesting action concerning
the reality of the UFO phenomenon is conceivably the single most
significant global initiative that has the potential to generate
public action and alter the opinions of international
leadership. The UN Petition has established foundations for new
global understandings and levels of communication about the
reality of the ET question. Once the Petition is ready for
presentation, its impact could very well be portentous. The
method of presentation and publication is no doubt in the plan
of its originators. All organizations must integrate this
Petition into their web formats.

 2. Airline Passenger Safety:

More information is becoming available from reliable sources
(airline and private pilots) that air passenger safety may be at
risk due to the electromagnetic influences of UAP on aircraft as
outlined in a report sponsored by NARCAP. This issue, if
disseminated carefully and responsibly, could become the most
monumental  international issue to hit global aviation since the
advent of the propeller. It will be a major focal point in the
Disclosure information package described above. The flying
public will be a dominant force to be reckoned with if issues of
safety remain unarticulated or appear to be suppressed by
aviation officials. Even the slightest hint of compromised
safety would be sufficient to mobilize this group. The essence
of this research must never be left to fade from relevance.

 3. The Annual Canadian UFO Survey

This report is among the most well researched and documented
national surveys available. Both its substance and credibility
have withstood the test of time. It is available to anyone who
wishes to seek out objective data on the phenomenon. It not only
provides data analysis but also a historical pattern and
perspective. More will be said about this survey.

These three patterns of international activity and data appear
to be drawing more and more professionals, some media,
scientists and business people into the disclosure movement
throughout the world. The dramatic work of those at CFI
(Coalition of Freedom of Information), the Sci-Fi Channel and
other such initiatives in Australia, the USA and the UK are
beginning to convince many to reassess and re-define their roles
in ufology towards a more proactive professional involvement.
This impetus is indeed growing.

Cataloguing and reporting annually about lights in the sky has
always been an integral part of ufology. Analysis and a high-
quality scientific approach will always be needed to distil the
validity of witness reports and physical evidence. These however
are only preliminary steps in the protracted process of the
sociological transformation that is becoming more evident in the
animation of public discourse about the entire ET question.

This transformation is more about a shift of emphasis than a
departure from traditional methods of investigation. The
adhesion of more professionals to this transformation within
ufology signals the arrival of a group within society that is
unwilling to take  No for an answer.

It will become much more difficult for perpetrators of the
cover-up to cloud issues by being dismissive or remaining
silent. Those who maintain the cover-up must now contend with
professionals who hold ideological positions and put forward
proactive challenges to swamp gas answers to profound questions
of truth, government honesty and a 56 year pattern of lies.

Therefore, it is time that the leadership in the UFO community
embrace this transformation by coming forward to bring the news
about UFOs to citizens so they can not only discern what the
issues are but also make informed judgements about government
indolence and media mendacity. There is an overwhelming need for
UFO research organizations to be educators and animators in a
co-ordinated and unified manner.  The days of independently
operated, isolated and separate ufological entities are fading.

Could one or two research organizations take on this leadership
role to challenge and lead the way in a Preliminary Initiative
of DISCLOSURE unification in the Canadian theatre?

Stage Two: Engage and Unify Canadian UFO Organizations

Once one major research group refines the strategies of the
action plan, other Canadian organizations will come 'on-line' to
use the same or similar proactive formats. This network of UFO
associations will broaden local public interest, media attention
and government involvement in a non-confrontational, and co-
operative manner across the country.

Ultimately a decision must be made by all research
organizations: are we to be treated as authentic citizens in a
democracy by our elected representatives or continue to be not
lied to by our government? The leadership in Canada of one
organization could begin to address this inescapable question by
politicizing the UFO/ETI issue in this manner.

Directors, web site co-ordinators and executive groups all over
Canada need to place this item for discussion on the agenda of
their next meeting; to examine, evaluate and consider the
implementation of such a proposal. Having one well-operated
organization take on this leadership role could realistically
galvanize UFO organizations nationally. It could then provide a
model for other provincial organizations to connect citizens
with their own elected representative and educational resources.
This is the ALM (Adult Learning Model) which has been used in
continuing education for years.

The mandate would be local as well as national; to approach
government with the  huge and revelatory body of information
through an educated public constituency. This network of
associations would serve as a conduit through which citizens
clearly express their concerns and desire for action to their
immediate political representatives as well as to the mainstream
media.

As mentioned earlier, one of the major ironies is that few
elected representatives hear directly from citizens on this
issue. This is not because citizens are not interested; quite
the contrary, citizens are interested. If they were
disinterested, the many hundreds of citizens who report
sightings each year would not go to the trouble of contributing
to the huge database we have accumulated over the years!

It is from the public that organizations receive the
overwhelming percentage of their data.  In most cases, citizens
do not know whom to turn to. They call the police or the Coast
Guard or the local airport. There they are given a lame response
and perhaps told to call a local UFO group. That s where it
pretty well ends; as a stat on someone s hard drive. This has
been the history of UFO most sightings reports.

OUR MANDATE

Up to now we in UFO organizations have not done our job to
educate and characterize the issue as political in nature. We
have not given the public the tools to express real, articulate
and well-informed points of view.  Again this is made plain by
the fact that constituents rarely if ever contact members of
Parliament or challenge candidates during elections about the
frequency, meaning and sheer volume of sightings each year in
Canada.

While the general public reports sightings in growing numbers
each year, members of Parliament and media remain out of the
loop. They both consider it a faddishly transient issue, if they
consider it at all! A very sorry state of affairs in an age of
unprecedented communication and sophisticated levels of
awareness. If a network of like-minded research groups had as
its goal to transform each citizen who witnesses a verifiable
UFO event into a well-informed participant at least or, at most,
an ardent activist, UFO organizations will be fulfilling their
mandate.

UFO organization web sites must be transformed from billboard
dispensers of data into vital educational resources which
motivate people into action.

 The long-term view? One day it may be possible to envision in
Canada a co-operative network of Canadian UFO disclosure
organizations reaching across the country with integrated
mechanisms to connect citizens with their own government
representatives and the media about the UFO/ETI question.
Perhaps... CANDOR

- The Canadian Associated Network of Disclosure Organizations.

Stage Three: An Alternative Perspective on the Canadian UFO
Survey

Given a sustained period of implementation and engagement by UFO
groups across Canada; and assuming all organizations are
sufficiently coalesced, another aspect of this proposal will add
impetus to the movement.

The annual Canadian UFO Survey should be re-designed or
supplemented so that it cannot and will not be ignored by the
media or government. This is no doubt a contentious proposal,
one requiring further discussion. All part of the effort to
radicalize Disclosure efforts.

The survey s design should reflect contents that become issue
related rather than simply data to be conveniently set aside or
remain inert on a web site. A revised written format would
include a co-operative challenge to the Canadian House of
Commons, Senate and Governor General - to read the Findings,
Implications and Interpretations of the report on the floor of
the House of Commons and in turn examined under the scrutiny of
a public Parliamentary committee.

The annual Canadian UFO Survey when combined with other major
UFO events in Canadian UFO history would provide a sound
foundation of data to be scrutinized by media and assessed
government committees.

If sufficient media and public interest can be generated in the
interim, elected officials will have no option but to respond to
the political will of informed citizens who have in fact
contributed to this database. A truly political act.

Much to ponder...

SUMMARY:

At this point there are several well-positioned UFO
organizations in Canada that could take on such a leadership
role in the Canadian UFO research community. Their well designed
organizational structure, knowledgeable leadership and credible
profile provide a perfect fit for the strategic addition of a
web link about Disclosure Issues and a group of e-mail
addresses.

These mechanisms for action and support information that link
the UFO/ET issue with vital global issues will allow citizens
the opportunity to inform elected officials and media about the
need to thoroughly investigate. Research organizations will be
required to take a proactive role in this process with the
recognition that more and more professional and politically
astute individuals are becoming involved in the realm of the ETI
question.

If the resolve and vast dedication evident in much of the work
now being done across Canada can be transformed into the
political action inherent in activist ideology, the disclosure
issue has the potential of sweeping the nation.

What Canadian UFO organization is willing to take on the
challenge? And, what kind of individual is capable of leading
such an initiative?

Respectfully Submitted

Victor Viggiani

___________________________________________________________

ANYONE WISHING TO VIEW THE AUSTRALIAN DISCLOSURE MODEL

VISIT    http://disclosure.freewebpage.org/

CANADIANS WISHING TO CONTACT THEIR MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT VISIT:

1.ALPHA-LIST:

http://www.parl.gc.ca/common/senmemb/house/members/MemberList.asp?Language=E&Par
l=37&Ses=1&Sect=hoccur

2. MP LIST BY PROVINCE:

http://www.parl.gc.ca/common/senmemb/house/members/ProvinceList.asp?Language=E&P
arl=37&Ses=1&Sect=hoccur

3. CABINET MINISTER LIST:

http://www.parl.gc.ca/common/senmemb/house/cabinetList.asp?Language=E&Parl=37&Se
s=1&Home=/common/SenatorsMembers_Cabinet.asp&Sect=mincur

4. MAIN GOVERNMENT SITE TO NAVIGATE AMONG THE SITES ABOVE:

http://www.parl.gc.ca/common/SenatorsMembers_house.asp?Language=E&Parl=37&Ses=1&
Sect=hoccur

Note:

- Any UFO Organization wishing to utilize the resources and
information in this post may do so.

-TO enquire about initiating and building such a network
proposal or educational resources please contact the authour of
this post.

Sample E-Mail:

Dear Member of Parliament:

I am a constituent in your riding. I would like to bring to your
attention a matter of growing concern of mine and that of many
Canadians.

In the annual Canadian UFO Survey of 2002 it has been documented
that well over 3,000 UFO sightings have been reported since
1989. In 2001 and 2002 alone over 350 each year have been
reported in Canada.

It is clear that no public action to investigate or deal with
these occurrences has been undertaken by the government.

It is also becoming clear that airline, military and private
pilots as well as air traffic controllers continue to report
sightings of crafts which perform unusual and highly intelligent
flight characteristics such as close proximity pacing, near-miss
incidents and other highly strange manouveurs around aircraft.
It is also well documented that navigation and radio equipment
have been affected by electromagnetic influences from these
unidentified craft. This raises serious questions about airline
passenger safety when pilots are forced to initiate radical
collision avoidance manouveurs. A scientific report exists
attesting to actual pilot testimony in this regard.

It has also been documented that Canadian Air Force jets have
been scrambled to investigate UAP (unidentified anomalous
phenomenon).

You may be aware that many world-wide organizations and several
governments have a most serious interest in the phenomenon of
UFOs. Many feel that these craft are of unknown origin i.e. they
do not originate from any known Earth technology. Furthermore,
their flight characteristics do not approximate the abilities of
any known aircraft. In most of these events, meteors, weather
balloons, ball lightning and other natural phenomena have been
ruled out leaving unanswered and perplexing questions about
these unexplainable events.

There has been a recent movement to acquire answers from elected
officials, Ministry of Defence and Transportation authorities
and Federal aviation officials about the policies, directives
and assembled information concerning what is generically called
unidentified flying objects in Canadian DND CIRVIS reports.
*(see below).

Since this issue could be of real National interest and concern
I would like you to respond to the following questions:

1. Are you are of this phenomenon?

2. If no, are you willing to acquaint yourself with the many
questions surrounding this most provocative issue?

3. If you are not familiar with this phenomenon, are you willing
to submit to the Ministers of Defence and Transportation during
question period on the floor of the House of Commons the
specific questions below concerning this issue which direct the
Ministers to seek and present answers with regard to the
following:

-the frequency with which Canadian air traffic controllers,
military, commercial and private pilots formally report
unidentified aerial targets?

-NORAD reports of unidentified craft?

-the presence of information about this phenomenon in government
archives?

4. If you are familiar with this issue, are you willing to
pursue, during question period on the floor of the House of
Commons with the appropriate government Minister(s), answers to
the issues outlined above and the following:

-the open presentation on the floor House of Commons of all
documents relating to CIRVIS (Communications Instructions for
Relating Vital Intelligence Sightings) made by pilots. These
CIRVIS documents relate to directives by the Department of
National Defence to all pilots in Canadian airspace. Included
among the list of events requiring a CIRVIS report by pilots is:
unidentified flying objects. [see DND Flight Informational
Publication GHP 204 Flight Planning Procedures, Canada and North
Atlantic, Issue No. 57, Effective 0901Z May 1999.]

5. If you are not willing to pursue these issues as outlined
above I would respectfully request an explanation from you as to
why not as well as direction from you about how I can obtain
satisfactory written responses to my concerns?

There are many ancillary questions relating to this issue.
However, at this time, I would respectfully request a response
from you directly concerning my enquiries above.

I understand that riding assistants, secretaries or aids may
receive this enquiry and as a matter of policy may request my
address to ensure I reside in the Member's riding. I provide
this information below in confidence with you and request that
the member him/herself respond to me personally about my
concerns.

Name:

Address:

Please be assured I am most serious and interested in gaining an
appreciation of what you and our government know about this most
serious situation and what action government officials
anticipate to determine how the public will be informed about
these issues.

I am willing to provide information and documentation about the
above.

Thank you for taking the time to consider my correspondence. I
await you response.

Most Sincerely

-----






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   Sep > Sep 11

                      Barriere, British Columbia Update

From: Brian Vike HBCC UFO <hbccufo@telus.net>
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 22:28:30 -0700
Fwd Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 12:10:02 -0400
Subject: Barriere, British Columbia Update


Barriere, British Columbia

Date:  September 10, 2003
Time: 8:50 p.m.

I just posted a sighting report for September 3, 2003 which came
from a witness who resides in Barriere, British Columbia. A
witnessed watched a extremely large craft fly quickly overhead.

Just tonight I had a telephone call from the same folks. The
man's wife was outside tending the farm animals and her husband
was with her. He takes his video equipment with him on many
occasions as he is a sky watcher and does catch some good
footage of different things. He also caught some great footage
of the forest fires which were burning in the Barriere area.

Tonight on September 10, 2003 at 8:50 p.m. the couple heard a
sound coming from the north, when they looked towards that area
of the sky they saw a bright white light heading directly in
their direction and it passed soundless over top their farm.
Both stood speechless ! They looked again towards the north
where they could still hear the sound coming from, which at this
point was growing louder and louder as it approached their
location. Seeing the fellow was so shocked to see what just went
over top of them, meaning a large silent bright white light, he
never thought to "try" to take a bit of footage. But he did say
the white moved very quickly and was soon out of their line of
sight due to the surrounding area. But as the sound from
"something" else drew closer and at this point was at the edge
of the farm, he started rolling video tape and was surprised to
see two large military helicopters fly low over head. He said I
don't know what one would call the make of the helicopters, but
the two of them were really large and flying in the same
direction the light was heading. The witness also told me he has
good equipment for his camera and did catch the two helicopters
on film. (The footage will be making it's way to me as soon as
he can get a copy made up).

(HBCC UFO Note: Due to myself knowing there is a fire in that
area, I asked if the aircraft the witnesses saw were anywhere
near the fire. The fellow said the helicopters were not even
close to the area where the fire is burning. The fire is burning
way up on the Bonaparte area and the two helicopters should have
been way west of these peoples farm. I also asked one of the
witnesses if he knew of any helicopters flying at night due to
the fire activity in the area. He said he knew of none flying at
night. He did say the run of the mill helicopters are seen a lot
during the daylight hours but no military helicopters have been
seen in the area. He also added there are military personal in
the area and many of us would have heard of this on the news.
There are a good number of Canadian troops on the ground
fighting these awful fires through the province. I also asked
the witness how bad was the fire in the area, and he told me it
wasn't bad at all. (There is a bit of important information I
cannot give out as it could lead back to one of these witnesses.
This bit of information is key to knowing what is flying and
isn't). Something else which stuck me as odd. A shor time ago
the media, along with the general public were at one location
taking pictures of the forest fire. I was told the RCMP showed
up and took everyone's film away from them.

I also have heard from people in the Vernon area that the
military is buzzing around. Matter of fact the witnesses in
Vernon, B.C. said it was if they were on some kind of alert.

I telephoned the Kamloops airport tower just after I talked with
the witness, but the airport operations were closed for the
night as all I got was an answering machine telling me the hours
they operated in. So I will be calling them back first thing in
the morning to see if I can get any information on aircraft
flying in that area at the time of the sighting. I will also try
the Comox military base on Vancouver Island to see if they are
flying military choppers in the Barriere area.

So what we have is a bright white light/object flying low over
top of the witnesses farm, followed by two military helicopters
following at a distance behind the soundless light.

------

I was just typing this report up, and in came another from
Cranbrook, British Columbia and a number of people saw something
very strange in the sky September 9, 2003. So I should have the
information on this very soon and posted.

Take care

Brian Vike, Director
HBCC UFO Research
Canadian Toll Free UFO Hotline 1 866 262 1989 - Free call.
Phone/Fax 1 250 845 2189
HBCC UFO Forum Board
http://phil-can.com/HBCC-UFO/index.php
email: hbccufo@telus.net
Website: http://www3.telus.net/public/wilbur8/hbcc_ufo_research.htm








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                         Flatwoods Monster UFO Event

From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys@rogers.com>
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 12:36:32 -0300
Fwd Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 12:15:37 -0400
Subject: Flatwoods Monster UFO Event


I hope some of you will be interested in tuning in to Coast to
Coast Radio Friday Night, September 12, at 10:00 p.m., Pacific
Time, for a joint appearance by myself and Frank Feschino.

Frank has collected an enormous amount of information on the
Flatwoods, West Virginia, "Monster" case which occured on Sept.
12, 1952. He has interviewed people nobody else has. I
participated in the 50th anniversary celebration in Flatwoods
last year as I have described in an article on my website at:

http://www.v-j-enterprises.com/sfflatwoods.html

and have found some new information.

We are especially interested in talking to anybody who picked up
small pieces of wreckage at the site, according to both a local
reporter and an article two years later. Also of interest are
the National Guard soldiers who were there that evening Frank
has filmed an interview with their leader, now deceased. Use my
toll free number 1-877-457-0232.


Stan Friedman










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                      Re: The Belzer Connection - Velez

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 12:10:00 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 13:28:54 -0400
Subject: Re: The Belzer Connection - Velez


>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren@pacbell.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 11:42:14 -0700
>Subject: The Belzer Coneection

>Good Day Fellow Listerians,

>I have to say that I have been completely "stumped" by the Sci-Fi
>Channel's regression of their public support in regards to serious
>investigation of the UFO phenomenon, by airing shows such as
>"The Belzer Connection." (As well as some of the other bilge that
>appears on Tuesday nights).

>If they think that surrounding notables in the field of Ufology
>- such as Stan Friedman no less - with comedians such as Al
>Franken, who seemed more interested in Stan's eyebrows, then the
>subject at hand, is in anyway contributing in a positive manner
>to the field of Ufology, they really need to wake up and smell
>the coffee!

>"The Belzer Connection" in my humble opinion seemed to be a copy
>of TNN's "The Conspiracy Zone," hosted by Saturday Night
>illumni, Kevin Nealon; it had/has the same format i.e., some
>notables in the field and some comedians in front of a live
>audience; the concern apparently to keep the audience laughing.

>On the flip side, if you go to one of the attributes of "The
>Sci-Fi channel... you'll be impressed with the goals mentioned
>at:

>http://www.freedomofinfo.org/

>There, in the mission statement it reads, "Achieving
>scientific, congressional and media credibility for the study of
>unexplained aerial phenomena while working for the release of
>official information and physical evidence." It further states
>that the goals are:

>*Scientific Credibility

>*Congressional Interest and Action

>*Serious Media Coverage

>*Case Investigations and FOIA Requests.

>These of course are very noble ideals and are welcomed to the
>field; however one has to wonder how these can be accomplished
>when the very same entity that helped form CFI produces "drivel"
>such as that of the "Belzer Connection." Promoting and airing
>such shows that make light of Ufology, does not conform to
>achieving the afore mentioned goals - in fact it does much harm!

>The folks at Sci-Fi need to realize they can't have it both
>ways. Either focus on making a buck and keep to their name-sake,
>i.e., science fiction, and apparently comedy; staying out of
>Ufology altogether, or stay focused on the afore mentioned goals
>of CFI and stop mixing the two with each other!

>Regards,

>Frank Warren

(Not one word snipped!)

Hi Frank, All,

Well said, Frank. But don't hold your breath while you wait for
them to do something about it. The folks at the Sci-Fi channel
talk a good game, but what they actually deliver is much more
pedestrian than one would anticipate even from media
professionals.

Several months ago I bitched about the exact same thing when
they aired that awful series of UFO programs. Programming that
propagated some of the worst, most convoluted theories about
UFOs while simultaneously highlighting the most sensational and
'way out' (even for ufology,) aspects of the phenomenon that
anyone could conceive of.

If you recall the response I received to my questions and
criticism about it... they blamed it on the individual
producers! They side-stepped valid criticism by shifting the
weight/responsibility.

Bottom line; the Sci-Fi channel says one thing but does another.

I don't know, what does that kind of behavior/pattern reveal to
you about them? How much do they really care?

Bob Dylan once intoned, "... you've got serve somebody." I am
convinced that in spite of a thin veneer of 'public service'
that they project, the real agenda is, and has always been, to
put asses in the seats at show time. After all is said and done,
they are in 'show business.' Can't blame a dog for chasing cats.

Look at the ratings for 'Taken'. Their methods, *disingenuous
and self-serving though they may be, works for them. Don't blame
these poor yuppies for operating in moral and ethical 'grey
areas' - it's what they learned was 'acceptable behavior' at
those EST meetings they all attended in the eighties.

I got over my disappointment, Frank. Know how? I stopped
expecting the people at the Sci-Fi channel to actually live up
to the hype they've been feeding us. But hey, be sure to watch
the upcoming "Kecksburg" special! They took all the valuable and
rare resources that they brought to the table and sank it into
that iffy, leaky basket of a case because Stan Gordon was at the
right place at the right time.

That, or he knew the right people at the Sci-Fi channel.

No matter. They are going to do what they are going to do,
Frank. Change your expectations and your disappointment will
vanish. Check it and see. ;)


Regards,

John Velez
Speaking strictly for myself






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             FOIA Request U.S. Army Training & Doctrine Command

From: Larry W. Bryant <overtci@cavtel.net>
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 22:40:01 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 08:30:36 -0400
Subject: FOIA Request U.S. Army Training & Doctrine Command


To: foia@monroe.army.mil


TO:   Commander
      U. S. Army Training and Doctrine Command
      ATTN:  Freedom of Information Manager (ATZG-BO)
      59 Patch Road
      Fort Monroe, VA  23651-1052

FROM: Larry W. Bryant
      3518 Martha Custis Drive
      Alexandria, VA  22302

DATE: September 11, 2003

At least one TRADOC-managed installation -- the U. S. Army
Carlisle Barracks in Pennsylvania -- recently has taken it upon
itself to impose a bar against its personnel's on-site accessing
of the Internet web site of http://www.militarycorruption.com .

As if that unconstitutional constriction of the free-flow of
vital public information weren't enough, the Carlisle command
has begun a lobbying campaign to have all TRADOC/Army elements
adopt the very same bar-to-access.

This specter of a broadened First Amendment violation of the web
site's freedom of speech/press, and of its audience's right to
receive that speech, prompts me to submit this letter as a
formal, written freedom-of-information request that you send me
a copy of the following records:

(1)  All TRADOC Headquarters-generated and TRADOC-HQ-received
records pertaining to Carlisle Barracks' bar-to-access against
the web site in question; doubtlessly, most of these records
reside in the TRADOC chief of staff's office, the TRADOC public
affairs office, and the TRADOC staff judge advocate's office.

(2)  All records -- including executive
correspondence/directives/analytical reports/policy
statements/public-affairs guidance -- pertaining to your
command's assessment of and endorsement of the proposed
TRADOC/Army-wide adoption of the Carlisle-originated bar-to-
access.

(3)  All documents listing the identity of all other TRADOC-
managed installations/facilities to which the Carlisle-
originated bar-to-access already has been exported and
activated.

(4)  All documents/reports/correspondence/e-mail identifying the
names and locations of any and all other web sites designated by
TRADOC Headquarters/Department of the Army as warranting a
TRADOC/Army-wide-imposed bar-to-access, and the stated rationale
for the bar's imposition in each case.

(5)  All TRADOC-HQ/HQDA standing operating procedures, policy
statements, Internet-management-information protocols, and
legal-affairs guidance on how/when/where/why to blacklist
certain web sites via imposition of a Carlisle-styled bar-to-
access.

Because of the obvious public-interest nature of the requested
records (as regards public understanding/oversight of your
command's policies/practices/activities), and in my capacity as
both a First Amendment scholar and as an independent writer
specializing in government-affairs/information accountability, I
hereby request that you waive all records-search fees incident
to your fulfilling this request.

Please note that I'm snail-mailing to you a signed printout of
this e-formatted letter.



Larry W. Bryant

Copies furnished to:

Mark S. Zaid, Esq. (Washington, D.C.)

Chairman, Subcommittee on Technology and Information Policy --
 U. S. House of Representatives

Director, Public Citizen







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                   UFOs In The USA Theories And Fixations

From: Eustaquio Andrea Patounas <socex@terra.com.br>
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 00:49:25 -0300
Fwd Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 14:44:24 -0400
Subject: UFOs In The USA Theories And Fixations


Source: Nzoom.com, New Zealand

http://technology.nzoom.com/technology_detail/0,1608,218636-113-380,00.html

Friday, Sep 12, 2003

UFOs in the USA: theories and fixations

Bill Radford

Stanton Friedman has no doubts that some UFOs are alien
spacecraft. No doubts that alien wreckage and bodies were
retrieved in the "Roswell incident" of July 1947 near Roswell,
New Mexico. No doubts the government has engaged in a kind of
cosmic Watergate for decades, hiding the truth about UFOs from
the American public.

Friedman worked for 14 years as an industrial nuclear physicist
spending "a lot of time on far-out, advanced, highly classified,
eventually cancelled research and development programs." He
developed an interest in UFOs in the 1950s and has lectured on
the subject since 1967, speaking at hundreds of colleges and on
radio and television. He has published more than 70 papers on
UFOs and is co-author of Crash at Corona: The Definitive Story
of The Roswell Incident.

Born in New Jersey, he moved to Canada in 1980 and holds dual US
and Canadian citizenship. Despite decades of research, he has
never seen a UFO. But then he has never seen Tokyo, he observes,
yet it seems a safe bet that it exists. The most common question
he gets is why: Why would aliens visit our planet and why would
the government cover it up?

The answer to the first is self-preservation, Friedman said.

"I make one assumption about every advanced civilisation, namely
that it is concerned about its own security and survival. That
means you've got to keep tabs on the primitives in the
neighbourhood, particularly those who show signs of being able
to bother you."

As for a government cover-up, there are plenty of reasons,
Friedman said. For one, the government wants to study and adopt
alien technology without other countries catching on. If the
presence of intelligent life elsewhere were confirmed, the
announcement would lead to a view of ourselves as Earthlings
instead of Americans and Russians and so on, Friedman said. And
no government wants that, he adds. "Nationalism is the only game
in town."

Is Colorado's San Luis Valley a top vacation spot for visitors
from other worlds? The valley has long been a hot spot for the
unexplained, from cattle mutilations to whispers of secret bases
to lights zigzagging across the sky. And for three years, it has
been home to the UFO Watchtower, which welcomes humans and
aliens alike.

Unable to make a go of her ranch, Judy Messoline opened the UFO
Watchtower on Memorial Day 2000. An igloo-shaped, UFO-themed
gift shop sits partly under the three-metre tower. The site
draws UFO buffs as well as the merely curious. "This year, we've
had large buses come in, which has been really nice," Messoline
said.

There have been about two-dozen sightings from the tower, from a
long, narrow object that zipped across the sky to an object that
resembled the bottom of a roulette wheel.

"I don't know if they're little green men or not," Messoline
said of the sightings, "but they're strange."

According to a Roper poll commissioned last year by the Sci Fi
channel:

Two-thirds of Americans think there are other forms of
intelligent life in the universe.

Nearly half of those surveyed believe that UFOs have visited the
Earth in some form over the years.

45 per cent believe intelligent life from other worlds has
monitored life on Earth.

Roughly seven in 10 people believe the government does not tell
us everything it knows about extraterrestrial life and UFOs.

Aliens have been good guys and bad on the big screen. Here are
some notable UFO movies:

Close Encounters of the Third Kind (1977) Steven Spielberg's
beloved tale of curious humans and benevolent aliens was
nominated for eight Oscars, but won only for best
cinematography. Spielberg also explored first contact in 1982's
ET, which featured a downright cuddly alien.

Independence Day (1996) The aliens are definitely not benevolent
in this blockbuster starring Will Smith as a hot-shot pilot who
kicks alien butt and Bill Pullman as an inspiring president.

The War of the Worlds (1953) This tale of alien invaders, based
on the novel by H G Wells, chilled moviegoers long before
Independence Day.

The Day the Earth Stood Still (1951) Characters, not special
effects, dominate in this sci-fi classic. An alien visitor
(Michael Rennie) is greeted with paranoia and suspicion upon his
arrival on Earth.

Signs (2002) Aliens invade but are rarely seen in this
suspenseful tale from M Night Shyamalan.


Bill Radford

KRT








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                  Re: More Bentwaters Information - Rudiak

From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@earthlink.net>
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 20:43:42 -0700
Fwd Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 14:49:20 -0400
Subject: Re: More Bentwaters Information - Rudiak


>From: Nick Pope <nick@popemod.freeserve.co.uk>
>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 19:10:43 +0100
>Subject: Re: More Bentwaters Information

>That said, another relevant factor is the work done by local
>researcher Robert McLean, who has mapped out the location of
>Conde's alleged hoax, and shown that even if it did take place
>as claimed, it could have explained neither the first night's
>UFO sightings, nor the activity witnessed by Halt and his team
>on a subsequent night.

A map of the area may help people visualize things better, which
I have at my website:

www.roswellproof.com/rendlesham_pictorial.html

Here's a crude text map of the situation:

Runway             C  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^L2^^^
==================== ^^^^Forest^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^V== Lighthouse=>
*East Gate           ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
                     ^^L1^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^         L3
                     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

C = Conde's car                                   N
L = various described landing sites             W-|-E
V== direct visibility area of lighthouse          S

The main point is that Conde claimed to be down at the end of
the runway, but the action all happened elsewhere according to
witness testimony.  L1 is the purported landing site for night
one (according to Jim Penniston), and it is in a completely
different direction, near the edge of the forest nearest the
base.

The second night, when Halt et. al. went out to investigate, the
landing area(s) was/were either L2 (Bustinza) or L3 (Warren), or
maybe both, on the other side of the forest, which is about a
kilometer thick at this point, and thus completely invisible to
anybody at the base.

McLean should be noted as previously doing another on-site
investigation to map out the area where the lighthouse beacon is
_directly_ visible through a gap in the terrain.  This is marked
as V== on the map above, and is a very small percentage of the
farm clearing on the east edge of the forest.

His results were previously discussed by Brad Sparks on Updates:

http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2000/sep/m12-009.shtml
http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2000/sep/m14-005.shtml


David Rudiak








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                    Re: Rendlesham Case Solved! - Rudiak

From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@earthlink.net>
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 21:38:27 -0700
Fwd Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 14:54:55 -0400
Subject: Re: Rendlesham Case Solved! - Rudiak


>From: Nick Pope <nick@popemod.freeserve.co.uk>
>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 19:10:43 +0100
>Subject: Re: More Bentwaters Information

>That said, another relevant factor is the work done by local
>researcher Robert McLean, who has mapped out the location of
>Conde's alleged hoax, and shown that even if it did take place
>as claimed, it could have explained neither the first night's
>UFO sightings, nor the activity witnessed by Halt and his team
>on a subsequent night.

>As you're aware, Robert's research and my comments about the
>misunderstanding over the alert condition were posted on another
>list, on which Kevin Conde had been posting. Unfortunately,
>Conde didn't respond, and the moderator promptly closed the
>thread.

James "Great White Pelican" Easton's List perhaps?

Maybe Easton was on to something after all. Besides Great White
Pelicans, there have been Great White Whales, Great White
Sharks, Great White Hopes, and Great White Chiefs in Washington.
"Great White" this or thats permeate our mythology.

After following the Rendlesham arguments for some time, I have
come up with my own "Great White" theory, which I think explains
most of the facts of the case. I daresay it's positively
Eastonian in its ingenuity.

The end of the runway where Conde claims to have been driving
the car is now populated by hundreds of rabbits. But when the
base was open, only the hardy but rare Great White Rabbits (AKA
Harvicus Orfordness Domesticus) were capable of surviving in
proximity to the nuclear weapons housed at the base. (For more
about these magnificent lagomorphs, see Carroll, L.,
"Wonderland: A Field Study of the Great White Rabbits of East
Anglia")

When standing on their haunches with their ears pointed straight
up, the GWR's are a fearsome sight and roughly triangular in
shape, just like the alleged "spacecraft." With the Orford Ness
lighthouse beam sweeping overhead, their whiter-than-white fur
would be lit up and become "blindingly bright," except for their
black feet, which would be hidden from sight. As they hopped
through the forest, servicemen terrified by the brilliant white
apparition would no doubt think they were actually flying.

In addition, flashlight beams shown in a GWR's eyes will reflect
back bright red, an obvious explanation for the red lights on
top of the alleged craft. The demonic-looking red eyes would no
doubt increase the level of terror felt by the witnesses. Any
flashing of the red lights is easily explained by the trembling
hands of the terrified soldiers unable to hold their flashlights
steady. This also neatly explains why Halt described seeing
something like a big blinking eye.  Big White Rabbits have big
blinkin' eyes!

The GWR's are indeed huge and terrifying, which also explains
why the other animals in the area were reported to be in a
frenzy.

The described static charge in the air at close approach, which
made people's hair stand on end, was caused by the static charge
accumulated on the GWR's fur, which can be considerable. The
static charge is caused by the GWR's brushing up against foliage
while running through the forest. This would also knock limbs
off of trees, accounting for the reported tree damage. Large
static electric fields might also induce odd hallucinations and
fantasies (e.g., alien contact) by stimulating the temporal
lobes of the soldiers. (Ref: See theories of Dr. Michael
Persinger)

As for the increased radiation readings, these were obviously
caused by rabbit droppings left by the GWR's after nibbling
grass at the edge of the base (nuclear weapons base -
remember?).

Skeptics have pointed out for years that the alleged landing
indentations were nothing but rabbit holes. The explanation has
been staring us in the face all along. When Colonel Halt and his
merry men chased one of the Great Whites on the second night,
they fell down one of the giant rabbit holes, which accounts for
other bizarre aspects of their testimony.

No need to thank me for solving the case.


David Rudiak








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                      Re: The Belzer Connection - Weber

From: Bill Weber <wweber1@sc.rr.com>
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 00:24:10 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 14:52:27 -0400
Subject: Re: The Belzer Connection - Weber


>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
>Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 12:10:00 -0400
>Subject: Re: The Belzer Connection

>>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren@pacbell.net>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>>Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 11:42:14 -0700
>>Subject: The Belzer Coneection

>>Good Day Fellow Listerians,

>>I have to say that I have been completely "stumped" by the Sci-Fi
>>Channel's regression of their public support in regards to serious
>>investigation of the UFO phenomenon, by airing shows such as
>>"The Belzer Connection." (As well as some of the other bilge that
>>appears on Tuesday nights).

>>If they think that surrounding notables in the field of Ufology
>>- such as Stan Friedman no less - with comedians such as Al
>>Franken, who seemed more interested in Stan's eyebrows, then the
>>subject at hand, is in anyway contributing in a positive manner

Hi, Guys,

I happened to catch a promo for the show in which the sound-bite
featured Franken, a comedian I otherwise think highly of, make
some tired remark about "stopping the anal probes" - to the
delight of the studio audience.

While I had no illusions about either the progression or
television's treatment of abduction research, I had higher hopes
for the development of comedy in general. You can tell me that
the SciFi Channel isn't really interested in fostering
understanding of abduction accounts, but don't tell me there are
comedians out there still telling anal probe jokes.

Now _that's_ disappointing news.


Best,

Bill







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                     'Magnificent Obsessions' TV Series

From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO <hbccufo@telus.net>
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 20:00:31 -0700
Fwd Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 17:44:41 -0400
Subject: 'Magnificent Obsessions' TV Series


The Canadian Life Network will be airing a new season of
'Magnificent Obsessions'. The first in the series will air Oct.
11 at 8:30pm ET.

The series is on paranormal issues, UFOs, Crop Circles, etc...
and follows a person around working their obsession.

Chris Rutkowsi was flown with a crew to the west coast in
British Columbia and then up to the pacific northwest where we
met and spent roughly 18 hours shooting a segment for the
series.

We also met with some of the eye-witnesses who I'd interviewed
throughout my area, and these folks will also be on camera
talking about what they saw. Each of the cases was re-enacted
for the program.

Chris then flew out with the film crew, and later the crew dropped
in and met with Errol Bruce-Knapp, host of radio's Strange
Days... Indeed, in Toronto. Then Chris and the crew made their
way back east and paid Stanton Friedman a visit.

So keep an eye open for the show which will be airing this
October. Also I believe there is going to be others who spend
many hours working on paranormal issues being filmed as well.


Take care

Brian Vike, Director
HBCC UFO Research
Canadian Toll Free UFO Hotline 1 866 262 1989 - Free call.
Phone/Fax 1 250 845 2189
Editor: Canadian Communicator - Paranormal Magazine
email: hbccufo@telus.net
Website: http://www3.telus.net/public/wilbur8/hbcc_ufo_research.htm






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   Sep > Sep 12

                           The Lou Gentile Network

From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO <hbccufo@telus.net>
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 00:21:47 -0700
Fwd Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 17:47:13 -0400
Subject: The Lou Gentile Network



Thought I would mention, if anyone is around and wants to listen
in to what is happening here in British Columbia, I will be on
the Lou Gentile Radio Show this coming September 29, 2003 from
7:00 p.m. to 9:00 p.m. Pacific time.


THE LOU GENTILE NETWORK
http://www.lougentile.com/
If you want to invite people to listen to the show.
the FREE audio links are on the website:
http://www.lougentile.com/index2.html

Take care

Brian
HBCC UFO






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                  Re: Did 1995 Circle Predict Something for

From: Amy Hebert <amyhebert@sbcglobal.net>
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 11:14:58 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 17:51:50 -0400
Subject: Re: Did 1995 Circle Predict Something for


>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker@earthlink.net>
>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 12:12:06 -0400
>Subject: Re: Did 1995 Circle Predict Something for September 6?

>>From: Loren Coleman <lcoleman@maine.rr.com>
>>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 08:37:57 -0400
>>Subject: Re: Did 1995 Circle Predict Something for September 6?

>You ask, "Where are the ones (other than mine) that tried to
>counterbalance his arrogant style?"

>I see nothing arrogant about calling the irresponsible passing
>along of crap (sans caveat) a crappy thing to do.

>And, so I would ask, in turn, paraphrasing that question: Where
>are the ones who would speak out against the de facto
>advertising of such madness as the September 6 'prediction'
>without due commentary?

I'm right here, Ray.

I often wonder why those who claim to be searching for the truth
post some of the most obviously bogus materials to this and
other lists. I don't understand why there are those (magazine
editors, book editors, List subscribers, etc.) who reject
researched information only to share what appear to be the most
anomalous of the 'anomalous' in print. It doesn't make sense.

And I always wonder why people "pass on" materials they know to
be highly questionable - with and without commentary. I can
understand those who don't know that they are contributing to
the spread of misinformation/disinformation. But those who share
materials they *know* are BS can only be called irresponsible
and are more a part of the problem than the solution.

I am not referring to individuals who call something "genuine"
or "authentic" who later find out it was only a hoax or
misidentification. We all make mistakes. But those who knowingly
spread junk are more a part of the 'noise' than the 'signal'.

Thank you, Ray, for having the nerve to confront these issues.


A. Hebert







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                 An Announcement Ad For Publication In 'The

From: Larry W. Bryant <overtci@cavtel.net>
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 14:09:20 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 18:07:16 -0400
Subject: An Announcement Ad For Publication In 'The


To: drumburg@gazette.net

TO:   Ms. Donna Rumburg
      Comprint Military Publications (Classified Ads Dept.)
      Gaithersburg, Md.

FROM: Larry W. Bryant
      3518 Martha Custis Drive
      Alexandria, VA  22302

DATE: September 12, 2003

Please tell me the cost for running the following ad in one
edition of the Fort Myer, Va.-published weekly newspaper called
the "Pentagram".

Blow the Whistle on Carlisle's "Killers of the Messenger"!

Officials at U. S. Army Carlisle Barracks, Pa., have imposed a
bar to its personnel's accessing the website of
http://www.militarycorruption.com

You can protest (and help remedy) their crass censorship of this
information resource vital to Army efficacy, integrity, and
accountability - by asking your Congress members to convene a
GAO investigation into how/where/why those officials now are
lobbying for an Army-wide extension of their censorship. Please
share your replies and "insider" tips with me at: Larry W.
Bryant (703-931-3341; e- mail:  overtci@cavtel.net ).

Thank you for providing the requested cost estimate,
Ms. Rumburg.


Larry W. Bryant







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                  UMMO Case Researcher Detained For Murder

From: Loren Coleman <lcoleman@maine.rr.com>
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 14:54:47 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 18:10:19 -0400
Subject: UMMO Case Researcher Detained For Murder


Source: Terra.es and Mundo Misterioso
Date: 09.11.03

UFO RESEARCHER DETAINED FOR MURDER
** Was a specialist in UMMO case**

September 10, 2003

SPAIN, Sept. 10 -- According to a story reported by paranormal
website Mundo Misterioso, Albacete-based parapsychologist and
ufologist Jose de Zor, one of the main experts in the Ummo case,
has been detained by the police and charged with the murder of a
young pilot, Manuel Esposito.

It is worth noting that de Zor has focused exclusively on the
ties between the UMMO case and the "amputated hand" of Albacete.

Manuel Esposito's corpse was found decapitated on June 24. An
investigation was started in which the term "ritual crime" was
kept in mind by police investigators at all times.

All clues lead to the small town of Albacete, specifically its
gay community.

The veteran "ummologist", leader of the Albacete gay community
and an activist with the Spanish Socialisty Party (PSOE) finally
took place in said location. Jos=E9 de Zor achieved a certain
measure of popularity last year after performing certain
hypnotic regressions on Spanish television last year.

Translation (C) 2003 Scott Corrales IHU.
Special thanks to Guillermo Gimenez







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                              Goldstein Is Back

From: Josh Goldstein <lovolution@sbcglobal.net>
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 13:50:23 -0700
Fwd Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 19:27:59 -0400
Subject: Goldstein Is Back


Hello fellow Listerions,

Warning, I'm back. Note my new email address. Yes, I know my old
whirly bird mate Alfred Lehmberg has eaten humble pie and also
come back. Al, it's good to once again read your words of wit
but didn't Shakespeare, the great bard, once warn to beware of
the odes of Alabama? <g>

In my case I have just returned back to California from a four
year stint producing music projects in Germany. My health also
is better for now. I'll be flying back over at times for
recording and concerts but it feels great to be back in the
Santa Cruz mountains in the nature paradise overlooking the
Pacific Ocean. I am facing southwest and have an unobstructed
view horizon to horizon for about three quarters of the sky,
about 15 miles north of Santa Cruz, with minimal groundlight and
perfect for the 8" Orion telescope.

I went to the latest Northern California MUFON neeting where
Stan Friedman spoke. The meeting was held right in Fremont where
Stan used to reside before he moved to the cold of New
Brunswick. I had not seen him in person for a while and it was
good to hear the latest from his end.

In a number of ways I am now more discouraged about the
direction of the UFO field than I have been in the past. I
suppose it has been building in me for some time, as expressed
in my previous posts. In particular, today marks the start of
another Bay Area UFO Expo. I am not attending,and you can see
why by looking at: http://www.drboylan.com/bayareaexpo.html

You will see that the one whose name is banned from this List is
a major part of this charade. Reuben Uriarte, the Northern
California MUFON State Director is also somewhat involved in
this spectacle. I have not discussed this expo with him but I
will do so after it is over. It just really disgusts me that
such an expo of BS is taking place once again. This year I place
it at the bottom of the heap, below the Laughlin, Nevada
conference. This is the kind of dog and pony show that grossly
misrepresents the UFO field to naive people.

A while back someone posted that Mr. Unmentionable would be
performing his star children camp this summer in the Santa Cruz
mountains. I said I would look into it. For a number of years I
used to be the MUFON state section director for Santa Cruz
County and two other adjoining counties. I thought to call the
current person holding that post but no one does anymore. I
asked the State Director to call me if he has any reports from
this area. I still remember how to investigate but I am not
rejoining MUFON unless they someday improve to my satisfaction.

I don't want to start investigating Mr. Unmentionable's Star
Children camp. I don't even want to get near that creep. If
parents are foolish enough to send their kids there that is
their problem for letting their kids get brainwashed by a
psychopathic liar (based on past personal observation of the
subject and his wild tales of being in touch with the highest
levels of government, etc.). If crimes are committed at his camp
hopefully we will hear about them. In any event he is going to
fill kids' heads with a lot of confusing crap. Shame on those
parents for exposing their kids to this.

Of course I could take up the post again but I have not belonged
to MUFON for a few years due to the problem areas in that
organization, such as having less than credible people speak at
the MUFON Symposium. At this latest meeting, a person who is a
conspiracy theorist (I think his shtick is named something like
Conspiracy Con) had the only table set up and that surely would
put new people down the paranoid track. I have posted before
that I don't understand why MUFON Chapters do not vett the
quality of the speakers invited to appear before their meetings.
I have been told that to have a speaker at every meeting
requires an "anything-goes" policy that does not exclude less
than credible poseurs.

Of course I was upset at Steven Greer's Disclosure charade
ruining credible efforts to get something out of our government
behind the scenes. So far the government has not revealed
anything not available through the Freeedom of Information Act.
The government is certainly aware of what we are asking. They
have seen the Rockefeller document and much more from the UFO
community. Pres. Clinton tried to find out an answer through his
friend in the Justice Department, Wes Hubbel. It is still hard
for me to really understand why the Commander-in-Chief was
excluded to go through that back door.

The MJ-12 documents are still an enigma. Whatever the government
does or does not know regarding that alleged group is still a
mystery. Even if some early documents contained some truth, why
would they be sent from Albuquerque anonymously to Jamie
Shandera, the sidekick of discredited researcher Bill Moore? If
they were from the AFOSI and contained some truth why are Tim
Cooper and the Woods still getting a lot of documents that seem
to be fakes? If someone in AFOSI wanted to secretly get some
truth out why would that be so obscured by seemingly bogus
documents? Are they playing a joke on us? We still do not know
anything that reveals their purpose.

Whether there is any UFO truth to the Roswell incident, the
government reacted in a strange way with their denial reports,
especially the crash dummies from years later.

We have all been looking for the holy grail of UFO truth to be
revealed by our government but I have lost any hope in that
direction.

I applaud the objective UFO researchers who dig away, get facts,
value truth and not hysterical BS. Some time back on this List
we posted a number of cases worthy of serious further
examination. But the funds are not fothcoming to make it
possible. To me it is discouraging that after many years so much
of the public UFO world is still just hysterical junk and that
some organizations such as MUFON have failed in their main
mission to objectively analyze the evidence and have high
standards to present it to the public.

Thanks for letting me get this off my chest.


Happy trails,

Josh







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             Re: Serpent Mound Circle Radiation and Magnetism -

From: Paul Anderson <psa@cccrn.ca>
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 15:35:01 -0700
Fwd Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 19:31:00 -0400
Subject: Re: Serpent Mound Circle Radiation and Magnetism -


>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker@earthlink.net>
>To: ufoupdates@sympatico.ca
>Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 00:24:01 -0400
>Subject: Serpent Mound Circle Radiation and Magnetism

>Were you taken in?

>The radiation (as contrasts with magnetism, per se) at the 'crop
>circle' site adjacent to the Serpent Mound should be considered
>no mystery at all. The Serpent Mound is located within a
>relatively small area (ten by twenty miles) containing the
>highest surface concentration of uranium ore in Ohio! There are
>highly radioactive, highly localized concentrations and
>variations, and that is what was detected.

>Then, the wide-eyed crop circle believer comes in with
>instruments and irresponsibly reports results without
>investigating the local geology, so that the media think they
>have something truly mysterious on their hands!

>Pardon the vernacular, but this is truly a just a CRAP circle!
>(Yes, with an A.) It was an easy one for the hoaxers to make,and
>even poorly done at places, (compared to what thew more
>experienced hoaxers in England produce) clearly showing the
>effort of human hand.

>No wonder the local magnetic conditions are highly unusual at
>the site. Local _geomagnetic_ aberrations occur there due to
>large-scale crustal deformations associated with the 8
>kilometer-in-diameter Serpent Mound Impact Structure (centered
>North 39 degrees 2 minutes; West 38 degrees 4 minutes) formed
>somewhat over 320 million years ago, in the southwest quadrant
>of which is located the beautiful Serpent Mound (after which the
>impact structure is named). The crap circle is just outside the
>southwest edge of the impact structure. No wonder the local
>magnetic conditions are quite unusual.

>Intense magnetic anomalies, reflecting residual bedrock
>magnetism are evident in the Serpent Mound area (Hildenbrand and
>Kucks, 1984). In fact, the Serpent Mound is located almost
>directly on top of one of the most intense residual magnetic
>anomalies in the entire state. Typically, such anomalies are
>caused by the intrusion of highly magnetic rocks.

>And the Boys of Summer (crap circle Summer, that is) are at home
>watching all the Gee Whiz! on local TV news and laughing their
>asses off at people's will to believe in the seemingly
>mysterious, making them feel powerful. Considering the strategic
>placement of this formation where naturally high levels of
>radiation and unusual geomagnetism are well know (to geologists)
>to be present, one might wonder whether the hoaxers might have
>known these facts and deliberately placed the formation where
>wide-eyed crop circle enthusiasts would come in make fools of
>themselves.

>To see the beautiful Serpent Mound and information on the impact
>structure, click on:

>http://www.unb.ca/passc/ImpactDatabase/images/serpent-mound.htm


Ray and List,

You may well be correct about the explanation for the radiation
readings, I'm all for getting facts straight.

However I think it is unfortunate to have ufologists et al
referring to crop circle researchers as "wide-eyed believers".
It is bad enough to be referred to in this manner by the
debunking camp. There are many of us doing serious, good work in
this field of study, just as serious and valid as that of many
ufologists, etc. And yes, there is good scientific evidence that
at least some formations are not man-made. That constitutes a
valid phenomenon worthy of further study. We are _not_ all wide-
eyed and gullible. To infer otherwise is rather insulting.

Regarding the formation itself, why not wait until full ground studies
have been completed and specific details better known before
assuming this to be a "crap circle"? The geometry at least is
impressive (have you seen some of the better aerial photos yet?),
well done if made by people. How do you know it was easy to make
and poorly done in places? Have you been in it? If so, and that
was your personal assessment, fine, otherwise judging it from a
distance means nothing.


Paul Anderson








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                  Re: Did 1995 Circle Predict Something for

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker@earthlink.net>
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 18:53:13 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 19:33:27 -0400
Subject: Re: Did 1995 Circle Predict Something for


>From: Amy Hebert <amyhebert@sbcglobal.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 11:14:58 -0500
>Subject: Re: Did 1995 Circle Predict Something for September 6?

>>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker@earthlink.net>
>>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 12:12:06 -0400
>>Subject: Re: Did 1995 Circle Predict Something for September 6?

>>>From: Loren Coleman <lcoleman@maine.rr.com>
>>>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>>Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 08:37:57 -0400
>>>Subject: Re: Did 1995 Circle Predict Something for September 6?

>>You ask, "Where are the ones (other than mine) that tried to
>>counterbalance his arrogant style?"

>>I see nothing arrogant about calling the irresponsible passing
>>along of crap (sans caveat) a crappy thing to do.

>>And, so I would ask, in turn, paraphrasing that question: Where
>>are the ones who would speak out against the de facto
>>advertising of such madness as the September 6 'prediction'
>>without due commentary?

>I'm right here, Ray.

<snip>

>We all make mistakes. But those who knowingly spread junk are
>more a part of the 'noise' than the 'signal'.

>Thank you, Ray, for having the nerve to confront these issues.

Likewise, Amy, I thank you for the courage to speak up. It's
nice to know I'm not alone.


Ray Stanford

"You know my method. It is founded upon the observance of
trifles." -- Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery








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                          Secrecy News -- 09/12/03

From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood@fas.org>
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 12:38:52 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 18:03:41 -0400
Subject: Secrecy News -- 09/12/03



SECRECY NEWS
from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy
Volume 2003, Issue No. 75
September 12, 2003


**      LIBRARY OF CONGRESS GETS DECLASSIFIED DOC DATABASE
**      APPEALS COURT REBUFFS VP ON ENERGY TASK FORCE
**      UK REPORT ON IRAQ INTEL
**      TERRORISTS AND SUICIDE ATTACKS
**      NEW LEGISLATION ON SHAD, IRAQ RECONSTRUCTION
**      INTELLIGENCE OVERSIGHT DROPS THE BALL
**      UPDATE ON THE AIR FORCE GULF WAR STUDY


LIBRARY OF CONGRESS GETS DECLASSIFIED DOC DATABASE

The Library of Congress has recently acquired a new database of
declassified documents that is available to members of the
public who use the Library in Washington, DC, though it cannot
be remotely accessed.

The Declassified Documents Reference System, which was purchased
from The Gale Group, "provides full-text access to over 500,000
pages of previously classified government documents."

"Covering major post-World War II era international events from
the Cold War to the Vietnam War and beyond, this source enables
users to locate a selection of U.S. government documents from
the Central Intelligence Agency, the State Department, the
Department of Defense, the National Security Council, the White
House, and the Federal Bureau of Investigation, as well as many
other government agencies. The documents range in size and scope
from telegrams, correspondence, and unevaluated field reports,
to lengthy background studies and detailed minutes of cabinet-
level meetings."

The database "is accessible through any PC in the Library," an
official said.  "You as a taxpayer do have access to this."

The official said the Library is considering acquiring other
declassified document collections, such as those produced by the
National Security Archive.


APPEALS COURT REBUFFS VP ON ENERGY TASK FORCE

The U.S. Court of Appeals rejected another request by the Bush
Administration for reconsideration of a lower court order
requiring disclosure of documents concerning the Vice
President's Energy Task Force.

"The Vice President has been told by multiple courts that he is
not above the law. Perhaps now he will give up his legal
stonewalling and begin complying with court orders to turn over
his secret Energy Task Force documents," stated Tom Fitton,
president of Judicial Watch, which brought suit against the Task
Force.  See:

http://www.judicialwatch.org/091103_PR.shtml


UK REPORT ON IRAQ INTEL

The Intelligence and Security Committee of the UK House of
Commons released a report on September 11 on the question of
"whether the available intelligence, which informed the decision
to invade Iraq, was adequate and properly assessed and whether
it was accurately reflected in Government publications."

Despite criticism of various omissions and misplaced emphases,
the report generally endorses the UK intelligence posture with
respect to Iraq.

"We accept that there was convincing intelligence that Iraq had
active chemical, biological and nuclear programmes and the
capability to produce chemical and biological weapons." However,
published assessments "did not highlight in the key judgements
the uncertainties and gaps in the UK's knowledge about the Iraqi
biological and chemical weapons."

See "Iraqi Weapons of Mass Destruction -- Intelligence and
Assessments," Intelligence and Security Committee, September
2003:

http://www.fas.org/irp/world/uk/iraqwmd0903.pdf


TERRORISTS AND SUICIDE ATTACKS

A new report from the Congressional Research Service takes a
sober look at suicide bombings, a subject that is difficult to
consider dispassionately.

"What are suicide attacks? What have been the patterns and
motivations for terrorist organizations using suicide attacks in
the past? What terrorist groups and other organizations are most
likely to launch such attacks? How great a threat are terrorist
suicide attacks to the United States, at home and abroad? How
can the United States counter such a threat?"

See "Terrorists and Suicide Attacks" by Audrey Kurth Cronin,
Congressional Research Service, August 28:

http://www.fas.org/irp/crs/RL32058.pdf


NEW LEGISLATION ON SHAD, IRAQ RECONSTRUCTION

A bill was introduced in the House to provide health care for
veterans who were exposed to hazardous biological and chemical
agents in the course of classified biowarfare tests conducted
from 1962 to 1973 under the Defense Department's Project SHAD.

"It is time for us to make at least some amends to our veterans
involved in these experiments, often without their consent,
knowledge or adequate protection," said Rep. Ciro D. Rodriguez
(D-TX).

See the introduction of the Health Care for Veterans of Project
112 / Project SHAD Act of 2003 (HR 2433), September 10:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/congress/2003/hr2433.html

Democratic members of the Senate, frustrated with an
unresponsive White House, found it necessary to introduce
legislation requiring an official report on reconstruction in
Iraq.

"After months of dodging questions, giving half-answers, and
ignoring Congressional requests, the time has come for this
Administration to level with the American people and Congress
and spell-out its plan for rebuilding [Iraq]," said Sen. Dianne
Feinstein (D-CA) on September 9.  See:

http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/2003_cr/s1594.html


INTELLIGENCE OVERSIGHT DROPS THE BALL

We have a report from the UK Parliament regarding intelligence
and the war in Iraq.  But where is its counterpart from the US
Congress?

And by the way, what has Congress resolved to do about the
missing 28 pages in the report of the Congressional Joint
Inquiry into September 11 that the Bush Administration refused
to declassify?  Or about the "outing" of Iraq policy critic Amb.
Joseph Wilson's wife as a clandestine intelligence officer?  We
have no idea.

And we are not the only ones surprised and disappointed by the
flaccid state of congressional intelligence oversight.

Sen. Dianne Feinstein noted that she had advocated a series of
proposed reforms of U.S. intelligence, including a bill to
establish a Director of National Intelligence bill, which was
one of the recommendations of the Joint Inquiry.

"Yet we still have not had a hearing on that bill," she said on
September 11.  "It still has not moved. When I make inquiries, I
am told: Now is really not the time. When is it going to be the
time?"

"The Intelligence Committees of both the House and Senate are
charged with oversight of the intelligence structure. But I do
not believe we are doing our job in that respect with respect to
the organization of our intelligence community," Sen. Feinstein
said.  See:

http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/2003_cr/s091103.html


UPDATE ON THE AIR FORCE GULF WAR STUDY

The Air University at Maxwell Air Force Base has removed the
notice from its website stating that its copy of the
unclassified 1993 Gulf War Air Power Survey was withdrawn from
the site at the request of the Air Force Declassification Office
because of unspecified "sensitive information."

Instead, the Air University web site has added a link to the
copy of the Air Power Survey which was posted by the Federation
of American Scientists this week (SN, Sept. 10).

"Thank you for your service," an Air University official wrote
to us.


_______________________________________________
Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the
Federation of American Scientists.

To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to
secrecy_news-request@lists.fas.org
with "subscribe" in the body of the message.

OR email your request to saftergood@fas.org

Secrecy News is archived at:
http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html

_______________________
Steven Aftergood
Project on Government Secrecy
Federation of American Scientists
web:    www.fas.org/sgp/index.html
email:  saftergood@fas.org
voice:  (202) 454-4691






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                        Crash Site Material Analysed

From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com>
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 11:59:37 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 08:13:16 -0400
Subject: Crash Site Material Analysed



EBK & List,

A sample of the material, taken from what I believe to be the
Cameraman's crash site, has been analyzed by X-Ray Diffraction
at the Technology of Materials Lab in Wildomar, Ca. It has been
identified as Cristobalite, and not agate as Ray Stanford had
maintained.

"Cristobalite is a polymorph of quartz, meaning that it is
composed of the same chemistry, SiO2, but has a different
structure. Both quartz and cristobalite are polymorphs with all
the members of the Quartz Group which also include coesite,
tridymite and stishovite. Cristobalite is common in volcanic
rocks and many microscopic crystals are easily seen in a
petrographic microscope. However, larger well formed crystals
are rarer and good specimens are found in the crevices and
cavities (called vesicles) of the host rocks. Cristobalite's
wide spread distribution in certain types of rocks would require
an abundance rating of at least common, although good
macroscopic crystal specimens are hard to find...

The presence of cristobalite in a rock is helpful to
petrologists (rock scientists) in determining the temperature of
the rock at the time it crystallized. It will form from molten
rock at temperatures above approximately 1470 degrees Celsius to
the boiling point of silica. Pressure and water content will
vary this range, but it is usually a rather good indication of
the extreme temperature at which the rock crystallized. Below
1470 degrees Celsius and above 870 degrees Celsius tridymite is
stable and will crystallize. Below 870 degrees Celsius, beta
quartz is stable and it will crystallize. Since a molten rock
goes through various temperatures as it cools all three
polymorphs could be present, confusing the issue...

Notable Occurrences include Cerro San Cristobal, Pachuca, Mexico
(from where it gets its name); San Juan Mountains and
Yellowstone National Park, both in Colorado and Mt. Lassen,
California, USA and Italy.  Best Field Indicators are crystal
habit, environment of formation (mostly in the crevices of
volcanic rocks), color and index of refraction."

A desert area the size of three football fields, covered with
cristobalite, would be quite unusual.  I think that Ray might
reexamine his assumptions in the light of this new information,
and reconsider my offer that we visit  this site, along with any
other interested participants,  in an attempt to validate the
cameraman's testimony.


Ed







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                                Ray Stanford

From: Loren Coleman <lcoleman@maine.rr.com>
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 23:27:46 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 08:16:53 -0400
Subject: Ray Stanford


Ray Stanford has a history on the internet of joining Lists and
then responding "with sarcastic comments and demands that
certain subjects immediately be dropped," as one observer on a
dinosaur list once wrote.

Forgive me. I now understand what is going on. I did not realize
that Mr. Stanford was _the_ Ray Stanford, contactee, medium, and
channel through which such less-than-scholarly books as "Speak,
Shining Stranger" and "Fatima Prophecy" - gained via Stanford's
psychic readings - have been produced. Stanford, of course, is
the author a book, Look Up (1958) that discussions his
repeatedly close encounters with flying saucers and his
discussions with their occupants, who he termed "the space
people," but whom he would later call "The Watchers" (some even
named "Aramda" and such).

No, I did not realize I was dealing with the Ray Stanford who in
the 1970s, was the leader of the Association for the
Understanding of Man (AUM), a national organization located in
Austin, Texas. The purpose of AUM was given to Stanford's via
his so-called "psychic reading,." given to him by "the Source,"
as well as "voices other than that of the Source [who] speak
through the unconscious Stanford... speaking in various accents
and inflections," as a 1977 AUM membership solicitation noted.
"These voices were identified as exalted spiritual beings,
members of an ethereal association called the 'White
Brotherhood,' archangels, and even Jesus Christ himself -- all
speaking courtesy of Stanford's 'borrowed' vocal cords, of
course. Some of these 'Brothers' identified themselves as
members of a UFO-operating alien race called 'The Watchers,'" as
has been observed.

"Examination of the AUM material leaves no doubt that the
'Stanford readings' were the major 'drawing card' for the
group's dues-paying members and its contributors - indeed, the
organization's raison d'etre," a watchdog noted.

Furthermore, Stanford had plans to construct a time machine
known as "the Hilarion Accelerator." He needed funding to get
this done, of course.

"In a tape-recorded lecture to the annual AUM membership
conference on August 24, 1974, Stanford told his followers that
'the Accelerator' would allow spiritually competent subjects to
teleport physically from one place to another, but also to
PHYSICALLY transport their bodies BACK IN TIME," remarked one
who researched this gentleman.

Stanford's time machine was never built, to the best of anyone's
knowledge.

No wonder Ray Stanford has no sense of humor about predictions
done by crop circle promoters. After all, only Stanford knows
the future.


Best wishes,

Loren







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                       Saskatchewan Report - 09-12-03

From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO <hbccufo@telus.net>
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 20:58:32 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 08:25:23 -0400
Subject: Saskatchewan Report - 09-12-03


Saskatchewan, Canada

Date:  September 12, 2003
Time:  8:45 p.m.
email report:

Well my best guess would be approx 30 or so lights or so all in
triangular patterns  with the exception of 4 or 6 of them which
were moving at high speed by themselves, a couple of them
looking like they were trying to catch up to the triangles. They
were all moving north west across the sky. This was the most
patterns I had ever seen at one time.

In the last month both myself and my wife had seen 4 other
triangular patterns always moving in the same direction, but
only 1 at a time.

What we saw tonight was phenomenal, and is why I am writing in.
I have been watching the skies for as long as I can remember,
and before this past couple of months had only ever seen
single lights moving in the sky.

I have to say this has kind of freaked me out a bit.

Such an large amount, and the patterns were all so perfectly
formed, with the lights never breaking formation, with the
exception of the ones moving individually.

I have seen many unexplained lights in the night sky but this is
the most incredible.

I will be trying to get some video footage from now on with no
guarantees, as sometimes these lights are hard to spot with the
naked eye. I hope I'm not the only one seeing these lights in
Saskatchewan.

The past couple of months have been just incredible for
sightings.

Thank you to the witness for the report. Also more information
will be updated.

Brian Vike,
Director HBCC UFO Research
Canadian Toll Free UFO Hotline 1 866 262 1989 - Free call.
Phone/Fax 1 250 845 2189
HBCC UFO Forum Board
http://216.147.50.102/HBCC-UFO/index.php
email: hbccufo@telus.net
Website: http://www3.telus.net/public/wilbur8/hbcc_ufo_research.htm







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                         New Westminster UFO Footage

From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO <hbccufo@telus.net>
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 21:25:12 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 08:28:30 -0400
Subject: New Westminster UFO Footage


Hi List

Well this morning I went to my postal mail box and picked up a
copy of the New Westminster UFO video footage. So now I have the
full length feature, you might say. I am going to write up a
report on this over the weekend and from what I've seen, the
balloon idea is out with the baby's bath water, this is for darn
sure. Everyone, I mean everyone has seen only a portion of this
footage and there are a heck of a lot more very important
scenes to this. Matter of fact the tape has blown my mind this
is for sure. What it is, who knows? But I am sure I know what it
isn't!!!!

I have to say this is one of the best video of an unknown I have
seen.

So full report coming soon.

Take care
Brian
HBCC UFO Research







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                Re: John Ford Redux (SDI 6 September, 2003) -

From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 08:17:06 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 10:12:45 -0400
Subject: Re: John Ford Redux (SDI 6 September, 2003) -


>From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com>
>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 12:31:22 -0700
>Subject: Re: John Ford Redux (SDI 6 September, 2003)

>>From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 05:18:36 -0500
>>Subject: Re: John Ford Redux (SDI 6 September, 2003)

>>>From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com>
>>>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>>Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 11:37:40 -0700
>>>Subject: Re: John Ford Redux (SDI 6 September, 2003)

<snip>

>>>I know John Ford. I exchanged info with him and helped spread
>>>his investigation into the crash of an alien space craft near
>>>Moriches Bay on September 28th,1989...through out the MUFONET
>>>Back bone, prior to the Internet, via BBS"s, (Bulletin Board
>>>Systems.)

>>For the record, Mr. Ford also attempted to curry favorable
>>reporting from ParaNet at the time of the Moriches Bay
>>'incident'. We chose to pass. Let history judge our decision.

>>Ok, Mr Speiser, in as much as these three sentences fairly drip
>>with negative assessment, bad criticism, and disqualifying
>>innuendo... what history are _you_ counting on? Was Ford's
>>ethical behavior something less than I indicated it was? Was
>>his community efficacy in any way other than was reported? Were
>>the facts regarding John Powell's criminality, and John Ford's
>>even oblique investigation of that criminality improperly
>>iterated?

>I really don't remember much about his legal problems. My
>comments were focused on his crash/retrieval report, which we
>found wanting in terms of credibility.

Ok, Sir - that's fine. Those in conflict with Ford's ufological
assertions are legion... but that's not really the point, now,
is it!

It remains that Ford's (not all _that_ loopy) ufological
convictions were used to qualify his mental instability _and_
that he was a good man with a spotless record... busily
investigating a man (one John Powell) with a record _decidedly_
spotty... and he has been paying a horrendous price for his
lawful investigation of John Powell since 1996. That's the
issue.


Lehmberg@snowhill.com

Photo Album: http://www.alienview.net/AVAlbum.htm
(send picture as attachment to Lehmberg@snowhill.com)
Splash page:  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AlienViewGroup/
Radio Show & Splash Page: http://www.alienview.net/alienviews.htm
Radio Show Archives: Out of Service at this time...







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                  [SO] Joe Travis Of Little A'Le'Inn Passes

From: Bill Hamilton <skywatcher22@hotmail.com>
Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 07:14:56 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 10:40:16 -0400
Subject: [SO] Joe Travis Of Little A'Le'Inn Passes


I have been visiting Pat and Joe Travis since 1989 when I first
went to Rachel. Joe and Pat were always friendly and welcomed
me. I spent many hours at one of their dining tables talking to
visitors from all over the nation and all over the world. Joe
will be missed.

Here is the message I received this morning:


Sorry to say that Joe Travis passed away after battling a long
illness, last night. He will surely be missed. I had some great
times with Joe and he was a great guy.

I suggest everyone send flowers, cards etc. to:

The Little 'A'Le'Inn
HCR Box 45-Hwy 375
Rachel, NV 89001

775-729-2515

-----

Bill Hamilton
Executive Director
Skywatch International, Inc.
Website:
http://www.skywatch-research.org
Fiat Lux et Veritas







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                            Reagan And The Aliens

From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 12:04:55 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 14:12:37 -0400
Subject: Reagan And The Aliens


Listfolk:

From time to time the more conspiracy-oriented UFO literature
recounts a story about then-President Reagan who made several
public statements about the likely consequences of invasion from
outer space. Some have seen this as evidence that he knew of
secret UFO wreckage or even of hidden contacts with
extraterrestrials.

Recently, reading Lou Cannon's President Reagan: The Role of a
Lifetime (Simon & Schuster, 1991), I found an illuminating
discussion of Reagan's obsession with aliens on pages 60-64.
It's too long to copy in its entirety, but essentially Cannon -
 - regarded as Reagan's best journalistic biographer, and author
of no fewer than four books on his life and career -- judges
this fascination to have its origins in the influence of movies
on Reagan's imagination and character.

"In Hollywood he became an avid science-fiction fan," Cannon
writes, "absorbed with a favorite theme of the genre: the
invasion from outer space that prompts earthlings to put aside
nationalistic quarrels and band together against an alien
invader. Reagan liked this idea so much that he tried it out on
Gorbachev in their first meeting in Geneva in 1985, saying that
he was certain the United States and the Soviet Union would
cooperate if Earth were threatened by an invasion from outer
space. Reagan's idea was not part of the script, and it startled
his advisers.... Gorbachev changed the subject. Reagan thought
this meant he had scored a point, and he proudly repeated what
he had said to Gorbachev to a group of Maryland high school
students after he returned to the United States. He also
repeated it to his advisers, to mixed reactions."

Cannon reports further about what he calls "Reagan's
preoccupation," which Reagan brought up on a number of occasions
to his top foreign-policy people, including Gen. Colin Powell,
who took to calling it the "little green men" obsession.
According to Cannon, Reagan's advisers would roll their eyes
every time the boss broached the subject.


Jerry Clark







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                      Re: Goldstein Is Back - Maccabee

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 14:16:06 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 18:22:51 -0400
Subject: Re: Goldstein Is Back - Maccabee


>From: Josh Goldstein <lovolution@sbcglobal.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 13:50:23 -0700
>Subject: Goldstein Is Back


>Hello fellow Listerions,

>Warning, I'm back. Note my new email address. Yes, I know my old
>whirly bird mate Alfred Lehmberg has eaten humble pie and also
>come back. Al, it's good to once again read your words of wit
>but didn't Shakespeare, the great bard, once warn to beware of
>the odes of Alabama? <g>


Welcome back.

And please let me know when you are ready to record my winning
Chupacabras song. :)








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                         Re: Ray Stanford - Stanford

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker@earthlink.net>
Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 11:49:54 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 18:26:38 -0400
Subject: Re: Ray Stanford - Stanford


>From: Loren Coleman <lcoleman@maine.rr.com>
>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 23:27:46 -0400
>Subject: Ray Stanford

<snip>

List,

Loren Coleman had created straw man, called it me, and attempted
to slay it.

Since Loren brought up many topics that are not UFO-related, I
first have asked Errol's permission to deal with them on UFO
UpDates. If Errol sees fit, I shall respond to Loren's
communication, point-by-point.


Ray Stanford

"You know my method.  It is founded upon the observance of
trifles." -- Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery







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              Ohio Sightings Continue Large UFO Near Adams City

From: Kenny Young <ufo@fuse.net>
Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 06:07:23 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 18:33:18 -0400
Subject: Ohio Sightings Continue Large UFO Near Adams City


Ohio Sightings Continue
Credible Report of Tremendous Object in Southern Ohio

SUBJECT: UFO SIGHTING
DATE: SEPTEMBER 13, 2003
TIME: 12:00 a.m. to around 1:00 a.m.
LOCATION: SILCOTT RD, ADAMS COUNTY (OH)

SUMMARY

This afternoon an Adams County resident contacted the Cincinnati
UFO Hotline (513-588-4548) to report a very unusual and
tremendously large object seen around midnight of early this
same morning.

I spoke with 21-year old Mandy (name and phone # on file) for
over 1-hour, taking notes on what she described as a
spectacularly large object that was seen to the northeast of her
location on Silcott Road in Seaman, Ohio (off of Route 32). From
the side of her house, she -along with three other witnesses
(her mom, her sister and one of her friends) - observed a
triangular-shaped formation of lights on one large object, the
lights reportedly flashed in sequence and would simultaneously
alternate in color from pinkish-red, blue, white to yellow. The
triangular arrangement of lights were comprised of 4-or 5 lights
with the peak of the triangle facing downward, at the bottom

The witness described the lights flashing as if in a
train or row of lights. "The lights were on the outer
edge," she said, "assuming the lights that were flashing
in sequence were along a triangular outer edge." She
said this flashing effect was vastly different than the
twinkling of a star.

She said the colors would change but do so in a unanimous
fashion, all red or all yellow, etc., and would flash along the
outer edge of the object in a slow sequence at first, then the
flashing sequence escalated in speed after several minutes into
the sighting.

The witness first observed the object when taking her dog
outside around 12:00 a.m. midnight. The object caught her
attention due to its brightness in the sky. She said that the
full moon and planet Mars was visible from her residence (which
has a good, unobstructed view of the sky), and noted a
distinction between the object, the full moon and Mars. She said
that the UFO was not quite as big as a full moon from her
vantage point, but was less than 1/2 the size of the full moon
from her perspective. She said this was a very large object and
that it hovered in place for almost one hour at an elevation she
estimated to be less than 45 degrees above the horizon.

She said that her mother, who is skeptical about UFOs, decided
to have her report the object because it seemed to be so
unusual. The witness aid that her sister is also skeptical but
could not identify the object, nor could her friend who she also
had take a look. They viewed the object, also looking at it
through binoculars, until the object "went further off" from its
original location and the four observers discontinued watching
because there was "nothing else that seemed to be going on."

The witness said the large triangular object was estimated to
have been 12-miles northeast of her location and situated above
Belfast, Ohio (southern Highland County), hovering for a long
time near Routes 73, Route 770 and Route 247.

When asked if the witness noted any unusual animal reaction, she
said that coyotes were heard howling loudly during the time of
the sighting, and also the previous evening. She used the term
"ridiculous" to characterize the number and volume of coyote
howls that were heard.

The weather conditions at the time were clear skies with a
bright full moon.

INVESTIGATION

The Adams County Sheriff Department was contacted by telephone
(937-544-2314) to find out if anyone had reported a UFO sighting
sometime around midnight this morning. The dispatcher taking the
call was interested in the report, saying she lived near
Belfast, but that the office had received no calls on it. She
took my number and said that it would be posted in the office
for future reference in the event of any UFO calls.

Next, the Highland County Sheriff's office was contacted at 937-
393-1421 to find out if anyone had reported a UFO near Belfast,
Ohio after midnight. The dispatcher said he checked the daily
log and could find no mention of a UFO complaint.

COMMENT:

I view this witness as sincere and reliable. The location of
Belfast, Ohio is nearly 5-miles northwest of the Serpent Mound
State Memorial at Locust Grove, where a crop formation was
discovered on August 12. I notified Nancy Talbott of BLT
Research (Cambridge, Massachusetts) of this present UFO report.
Nancy had additional questions so the witness was called back
and together we spoke further with the witness by 3-way
telephone conversation. Nancy Talbott also views the witness as
credible. Additionally, the witness informs that her father -who
was asleep at the time and did not see the UFO- had just
returned from the store as we were talking on the phone and said
that everyone at the store was talking about "a woman who came
in and told of a 'UFO' seen last night." Mandy said she will try
to follow up on this to see if she can get additional
information as it might support her own account.

This UFO sighting is but one of many recent reports originating
from Southern Ohio in the past few weeks. Details of the other
sightings can be found at the website URL address attached
below.

FILED;
Sept. 13, 2003
KENNY YOUNG
--
UFO RESEARCH
http://home.fuse.net/ufo
Hotline = 513-588-4548





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   Sep > Sep 13

                     Re: Reagan And The Aliens - Speiser

From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com>
Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 12:28:04 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 18:35:04 -0400
Subject: Re: Reagan And The Aliens - Speiser


>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 12:04:55 -0500
>Subject: Reagan And The Aliens

>Listfolk:

>From time to time the more conspiracy-oriented UFO literature
>recounts a story about then-President Reagan who made several
>public statements about the likely consequences of invasion from
>outer space. Some have seen this as evidence that he knew of
>secret UFO wreckage or even of hidden contacts with
>extraterrestrials.

I remember those references, and I always took his meaning as,
"see, we would FIND a way to cooperate under those circumstances,
which means there IS a way for us to cooperate, so why wait for
an invasion, let's start now!" Made sense to me in that context,
and I saw no reason to jump to the conclusion that he knew
something we didn't.

But try to convince the conspiracists.....


==JJS==







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                     Re: Reagan And The Aliens - Fleming

From: Lan Fleming <lfleming5@houston.rr.com>
Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 16:13:13 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 18:36:48 -0400
Subject: Re: Reagan And The Aliens - Fleming


>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
>Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 12:04:55 -0500
>Fwd Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 14:12:37 -0400
>Subject: Reagan And The Aliens

>From time to time the more conspiracy-oriented UFO literature
>recounts a story about then-President Reagan who made several
>public statements about the likely consequences of invasion from
>outer space. Some have seen this as evidence that he knew of
>secret UFO wreckage or even of hidden contacts with
>extraterrestrials.

>Recently, reading Lou Cannon's President Reagan: The Role of a
>Lifetime (Simon & Schuster, 1991), I found an illuminating
>discussion of Reagan's obsession with aliens on pages 60-64.
>It's too long to copy in its entirety, but essentially Cannon -
>- regarded as Reagan's best journalistic biographer, and author
>of no fewer than four books on his life and career -- judges
>this fascination to have its origins in the influence of movies
>on Reagan's imagination and character.


There's little to suggest any insider knowledge about ETs in
Reagan's public statements alluding to UFOs while he was
president. But his fascination with aliens might have had
something to do with a UFO sighting he allegedly had back when
he was governor of California:

http://www.rense.com/general/filer42500.htm

"Ronald Reagan said, while governor of California, "I was in a
plane last week when I looked out the window and saw this white
light. It was zigzagging around." "I went up to the pilot and
said, "Have you ever seen anything like that?" He was shocked
and he said, "Nope." And I said to him: "Let's follow it!" "We
followed it for several minutes. It was a bright white light."
"We followed it to Bakersfield, and all of a sudden to our utter
amazement it went straight up into the heavens." "When I got off
the plane I told Nancy all about it, but we didn't file a report
on the object because for a long time they considered you a nut
if you saw a UFO..." Ronald Reagan, 1974"

I can't vouch for the authenticity of this story, but it's the
sort of thing that a journalistic biographer is not likely to
even check into before jumping to a more palatable psychosocial
conclusion. Why bother when you can blame everything on
Hollywood and science fiction? I understand that there are also
lots of pelicans in California.







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   Sep > Sep 14

               Re: [SO] Joe Travis Of Little A'Le'Inn Passes -

From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 16:06:18 -0700
Fwd Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 09:12:44 -0400
Subject: Re: [SO] Joe Travis Of Little A'Le'Inn Passes -


>From: Bill Hamilton <skywatcher22@hotmail.com>
>To: Skyopen@yahoogroups.com
>Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 07:14:56 -0700
>Subject: [SO] Joe Travis Of Little A'Le'Inn Passes

>I have been visiting Pat and Joe Travis since 1989 when I first
>went to Rachel. Joe and Pat were always friendly and welcomed
>me. I spent many hours at one of their dining tables talking to
>visitors from all over the nation and all over the world. Joe
>will be missed.

>Here is the message I received this morning:

>Sorry to say that Joe Travis passed away after battling a long
>illness, last night. He will surely be missed. I had some great
>times with Joe and he was a great guy.

Dear all:


Now that is a damned shame.

No sensible person expected instant verification of UFOs from
the zero stoplight location of Rachel, NV.

I did find some cold soda pop once, and a very nice guy running
the grim, hoping to make a business probably.

Without risk takers like this fellow, one has to bring ones own
milk and cookies. NV 375 is not a thoroughfare.


Sorry like others

- Larry  Hatch

------







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             Re: John Ford Redux (SDI 6 September, 2003) - Hatch

From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 16:21:34 -0700
Fwd Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 09:21:29 -0400
Subject: Re: John Ford Redux (SDI 6 September, 2003) - Hatch


>From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 08:17:06 -0500
>Subject: Re: John Ford Redux (SDI 6 September, 2003)

>>From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com>
>>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 12:31:22 -0700
>>Subject: Re: John Ford Redux (SDI 6 September, 2003)

>>>From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>>Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 05:18:36 -0500
>>>Subject: Re: John Ford Redux (SDI 6 September, 2003)

>>>>From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com>
>>>>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>>>Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 11:37:40 -0700
>>>>Subject: Re: John Ford Redux (SDI 6 September, 2003)

><snip>

>>>>I know John Ford. I exchanged info with him and helped spread
>>>>his investigation into the crash of an alien space craft near
>>>>Moriches Bay on September 28th,1989...through out the MUFONET
>>>>Back bone, prior to the Internet, via BBS"s, (Bulletin Board
>>>>Systems.)

>>>For the record, Mr. Ford also attempted to curry favorable
>>>reporting from ParaNet at the time of the Moriches Bay
>>>'incident'. We chose to pass. Let history judge our decision.

>>>Ok, Mr Speiser, in as much as these three sentences fairly drip
>>>with negative assessment, bad criticism, and disqualifying
>>>innuendo... what history are _you_ counting on? Was Ford's
>>>ethical behavior something less than I indicated it was? Was
>>>his community efficacy in any way other than was reported? Were
>>>the facts regarding John Powell's criminality, and John Ford's
>>>even oblique investigation of that criminality improperly
>>>iterated?

>>I really don't remember much about his legal problems. My
>>comments were focused on his crash/retrieval report, which we
>>found wanting in terms of credibility.

>Ok, Sir - that's fine. Those in conflict with Ford's ufological
>assertions are legion... but that's not really the point, now,
>is it!

>It remains that Ford's (not all _that_ loopy) ufological
>convictions were used to qualify his mental instability _and_
>that he was a good man with a spotless record... busily
>investigating a man (one John Powell) with a record _decidedly_
>spotty... and he has been paying a horrendous price for his
>lawful investigation of John Powell since 1996. That's the
>issue.

>Lehmberg@snowhill.com


Dear Sirs/Mmes

John Ford is Normal Normal Norrmal Norlmam
Norwich Norwick Normal Normnal [hit reset key]
Norgood Norbad  Nornal Nernal; ...

Somebody else planted radium Toothpaste into the pickup truck.


Best wishes

- Larry

= = = =






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   Sep > Sep 14

                      Re: Reagan And The Aliens - Hatch

From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 16:28:14 -0700
Fwd Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 09:23:33 -0400
Subject: Re: Reagan And The Aliens - Hatch


>From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com>
>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 12:28:04 -0700
>Subject: Re: Reagan And The Aliens

>>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
>>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 12:04:55 -0500
>>Subject: Reagan And The Aliens

>>From time to time the more conspiracy-oriented UFO literature
>>recounts a story about then-President Reagan who made several
>>public statements about the likely consequences of invasion from
>>outer space. Some have seen this as evidence that he knew of
>>secret UFO wreckage or even of hidden contacts with
>>extraterrestrials.

>I remember those references, and I always took his meaning as,
>"see, we would FIND a way to cooperate under those circumstances,
>which means there IS a way for us to cooperate, so why wait for
>an invasion, let's start now!" Made sense to me in that context,
>and I saw no reason to jump to the conclusion that he knew
>something we didn't.

>But try to convince the conspiracists.....

Dear Jim:


Why do so few people listen to such simple logic as yours? Maybe
they  drink insufficient beers.


Best


- LH

= = =





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   Sep > Sep 14

               Re: [SO] Joe Travis Of Little A'Le'Inn Passes -

From: Michael Christol <spachopr@bellsouth.net>
Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 18:38:31 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 09:26:05 -0400
Subject: Re: [SO] Joe Travis Of Little A'Le'Inn Passes -


>From: Bill Hamilton <skywatcher22@hotmail.com>
>To: Skyopen@yahoogroups.com
>Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 07:14:56 -0700
>Subject: [SO] Joe Travis Of Little A'Le'Inn Passes

>I have been visiting Pat and Joe Travis since 1989 when I first
>went to Rachel. Joe and Pat were always friendly and welcomed
>me. I spent many hours at one of their dining tables talking to
>visitors from all over the nation and all over the world. Joe
>will be missed.


>Here is the message I received this morning:


>Sorry to say that Joe Travis passed away after battling a long
>illness, last night. He will surely be missed. I had some great
>times with Joe and he was a great guy.


Hi Bill.

I'm sorry to hear about Joe. I met him back in 1993 when we
had the gathering May 30 - April 2.

I agree. Joe and Pat were very friendly people. Even though they
were busy running their Inn, they always had time to answer any
questions anyone would ask.

My sympathies to Pat. I hope she will keep the Inn open. It is a
great place.

REgards, Mike






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                      Re: Reagan And The Aliens - Clark

From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 18:46:25 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 09:31:40 -0400
Subject: Re: Reagan And The Aliens - Clark


>From: Lan Fleming <lfleming5@houston.rr.com>
>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 16:13:13 -0500
>Subject: Re: Reagan And The Aliens


>>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
>>Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 12:04:55 -0500
>>Fwd Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 14:12:37 -0400
>>Subject: Reagan And The Aliens

>>Recently, reading Lou Cannon's President Reagan: The Role of a
>>Lifetime (Simon & Schuster, 1991), I found an illuminating
>>discussion of Reagan's obsession with aliens on pages 60-64.
>>It's too long to copy in its entirety, but essentially Cannon -
>>- regarded as Reagan's best journalistic biographer, and author
>>of no fewer than four books on his life and career -- judges
>>this fascination to have its origins in the influence of movies
>>on Reagan's imagination and character.

>"Ronald Reagan said, while governor of California, "I was in a
>plane last week when I looked out the window and saw this white
>light. It was zigzagging around." "I went up to the pilot and
>said, "Have you ever seen anything like that?" He was shocked
>and he said, "Nope." And I said to him: "Let's follow it!" "We
>followed it for several minutes. It was a bright white light."
>"We followed it to Bakersfield, and all of a sudden to our utter
>amazement it went straight up into the heavens." "When I got off
>the plane I told Nancy all about it, but we didn't file a report
>on the object because for a long time they considered you a nut
>if you saw a UFO..." Ronald Reagan, 1974"

>I can't vouch for the authenticity of this story, but it's the
>sort of thing that a journalistic biographer is not likely to
>even check into before jumping to a more palatable psychosocial
>conclusion. Why bother when you can blame everything on
>Hollywood and science fiction? I understand that there are also
>lots of pelicans in California.

You lose me with that last paragraph.

Pelicanism is a real, lamentable social phenomenon, but it has
no relevance to the Lou Cannon remarks I was citing. Cannon, who
knows as much about Reagan as any living human (certainly more
than you and I), would have had no reason not to mention the
alleged UFO sighting if he'd thought it explained Reagan's
remarks. Elsewhere in the book, Cannon deals with other
heterodox beliefs about the paranormal, religious prophecy, et
al., which Reagan held and which influenced his view of the
world.

The discussion of the role of SF films appears in the context of
an examination of how other, non-SF films also measurably
affected Reagan's thinking. I urge you to read what Cannon
actually wrote before you start trying to read his mind.


Jerry Clark







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                 Re: New Westminster UFO Footage - Balaskas

From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 20:35:59 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
Fwd Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 09:33:17 -0400
Subject: Re: New Westminster UFO Footage - Balaskas


>From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO <hbccufo@telus.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 21:25:12 -0700
>Subject: New Westminster UFO Footage

<snip>

>Well this morning I went to my postal mail box and picked up a
>copy of the New Westminster UFO video footage. So now I have the
>full length feature, you might say. I am going to write up a
>report on this over the weekend and from what I've seen, the
>balloon idea is out with the baby's bath water, this is for darn
>sure. Everyone, I mean everyone has seen only a portion of this
>footage and there are a heck of a lot more very important
>scenes to this. Matter of fact the tape has blown my mind this
>is for sure. What it is, who knows? But I am sure I know what it
>isn't!!!!

>I have to say this is one of the best video of an unknown I have
>seen.

>So full report coming soon.

<snip>


Hi Brian!

I for one will anxiously be waiting to read your report. Is
there any possibility for other researchers, including myself,
being able to examine the full video recording of this "UFO"
too? From what I have already seen of this "UFO" video at Jeff
Rense's and Whitley Strieber's web sites, it appears to be a
helium filled foil balloon, just like the one my seven year old
nephew and I launched under the same time of day and similar
clear sky conditions from Orleans, Ontario (a residential suburb
of Ottawa with about the same population as New Westminster,
B.C., a suburb of Vancouver). Jeff, Whitley and others were sent
digital images of our Orleans "UFO" which looked and behaved
just like the New Westminster "UFO". Did you get these same
digital images I sent to you too?

Included with the pictures I sent of the Orleans "UFO" were
digital images of three distant aircraft that were in the sky
moments after our balloon launch. Except possibly the one with a
very short contrail, all three images do not show the obvious
aircaft shapes we saw with our own eyes and could very easily be
mistaken to be UFOs too, especially when you greatly zoom in
just like in the New Westminster "UFO" video.

Video/digital cameras can be both a blessing and a curse to any
serious ufo studies and certainly not proof of anything...


Nick Balaskas







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                   PRG/X-PPAC Update - 09-13-03 - Bassett

From: Stephen Bassett <ParadigmRG@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 20:37:56 EDT
Fwd Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 09:36:55 -0400
Subject: PRG/X-PPAC Update - 09-13-03 - Bassett


PRG
Paradigm Research Group
Update - September 13, 2003
(to the combined PRG/X-PPAC mail list)

It has been seven months since someone let the dogs out (the
dogs of war), and Iraq and terrorism have been playing on all
the screens at the Washington, DC Hell Plaza Octaplex. The
disclosure work has had to take a back-seat, but it is well
past time for some new features, some other issues to regain
the public's attention. Paradigm Research Group and X-PPAC,
after a hiatus to regroup and reassess, are ready to continue
the work necessary to bring the truth to the American people.

Literary and Speaker Agency Representation

Paradigm Research Group is pleased to announce Executive
Director, Stephen Bassett, has signed with prestigious New
York literary agency, Sanford J. Greenburger Associates, Inc.
(www.sjga.com). Well known agent, Matt Bialer, will represent
Steve in a series of books addressing the politics of disclosure.
The first book, which is being written in co-authorship with
Canadian researcher, Grant Cameron, will be presented to
publishers next week.

Bassett has also just signed with Washington, DC based Du
Plain International Speakers Bureau (www.duplain.com), which
provides outstanding lecturers to venues across the United
States.

These new relationships are important to reaching a broader
mainstream audience, particularly in the power centers of
New York and Washington, DC, with the facts surrounding
the extraterrestrial presence and the 46-year effort to embargo
these facts from the American people.


1st Annual Exopolitics Expo - the X-Conference
April 16-18, 2004
Hilton Washington, DC North/Gaithersburg
www.x-conference.com

PRG is also pleased to announce it will bring together in the
Washington, DC metro area the most powerful group of speakers
ever assembled to focus on the governmental, political and media
aspects of 50 years of extraterrestrial engagement and societal
denial.

And just to make things more interesting, it will hold this
conference right in the middle of the 2004 presidential primary
season. Collectively, the X-Conference speakers hold enough
knowledge of government involvement with extraterrestrial
phenomena and the truth embargo to end the cover-up tomorrow.
All it would take is for the political leaders and the political
media to pay attention. And yes, they have been invited, too.

Speakers: will include Stephen Bassett, Dr. William Birnes,
Grant Cameron (Canada), Philip Corso, Jr., Paul Davids,
Richard Dolan, Stanton Friedman (Canada), Timothy Good
(United Kingdom), Dr. Steven Greer, Terry Hansen, Paola Harris
(Italy), Richard Hoagland, Dr. C.B. Scott Jones, Jim Marrs, Dr.
Bruce Maccabee, Nick Pope (United Kingdom), Dr. Michael
Salla (Australia).... topping out at approximately 20 speakers.

Venue: the Hilton Washington DC North/Gaithersburg. This 3
Star, 3 Diamond hotel has unlimited free parking, metro access,
conference facilities for 1500, banquet facilities for 300+ and
is equidistant from all three major airports (Reagan, Dulles, BWI).

Full conference information is available at: www.x-conference.com

This conference has been designed and scheduled to be more
than just an event. It will have impact on the disclosure process
itself. Your support is needed once again.

Aside from the fact that rooms and banquet seating are limited,
by taking advantage of advance booking discounts and registering
now, you will help this new conference to develop smoothly and
ensure it will become an annual event. Thanks.


Strange Days..... Indeed CFRB Toronto
Bassett will announce the X-Conference tonight, Saturday,
September 13, on Strange Days.....Indeed with Errol Bruce Knapp
at 9:30 pm EST. SDI is netcast at: www.cfrb.com


Other Upcoming Conferences
Not surprisingly, new conferences are forming and others are
growing. In addition to the very successful Bay Area UFO
Expo (www.thebayareaufoexpo), now in its 5th year this
weekend in Santa Clara, CA, here are some other conferences
coming up later this year:

22nd Leeds International UFO Conference
September 26-28, 2003
Leeds, United Kingdom
www.ufomag.co.uk/22nd-Leeds.htm

Ancient Earth Mysteries
September 27-28, 2003
Laughlin, NV
www.conspiracycafe.com/earthmysteries

UFO Conference
October 2-3, 2003
Bordentown, New Jersey
www.drufo.org/conference.new.htm

Halifax International UFO Symposium
October 11-12, 2003
Halifax, Nova Scotia
http://www.ufohalifax.com/

Tri-Lakes UFO Conference
November 13-16, 2003
Kimberling City, MO
www.tri-lakes-ufo-congress.freecyberzone.com/

1st Annual UFO Crash Retrieval Conference (new)
November 14-16, 2003
Las Vegas, NV
www.majesticdocuments.com/conference.html

If anyone in government or media thinks the interest
in these issues are fading, they are mistaken.


The Headroom - a New Radio Program out of London
The Headroom with Rob Simone, broadcast on independent Radio
London, Resonance 104.4 FM, is a developing program with a
growing UK audience. For those in the US and Canada looking
for a Saturday morning program, the Headroom is netcast at
www.resonancefm.com at 9:30 am EST. Check it out.

______________________________________________________

 Paradigm Research Group
 URL: www.paradigmclock.com
 E-mail: ParadigmRG@aol.com
 Cell: 202-431-2459
 4938 Hampden Lane, #161
 Bethesda, MD 20814
_______________________________________________________

 "There is almost no limit to what you can accomplish,
 if you are willing to give away the credit."
_______________________________________________________

 "Intellectual passion is found at the intersection
 of fact and implication."






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   Sep > Sep 14

                Review: Socorro 'Saucer' In A Pentagon Pantry

From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com>
Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 20:39:48 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 09:42:25 -0400
Subject: Review: Socorro 'Saucer' In A Pentagon Pantry


Socorro "Saucer" In A Pentagon Pantry by Ray Stanford

review by Mac Tonnies

http://www.mactonnies.com/ufobooks.html


Ray Stanford's 1976 "Socorro 'Saucer' in a Pentagon Pantry" is
the definitive account of one of the most fascinating close
encounters on record: the 1964 landing of an egg-shaped UFO in
Socorro, New Mexico. As one of the case's few on-site
researchers, Stanford is uniquely qualified and pursues the
truth behind the landing with dogged persistance, interviewing
the key players - foremost among them policeman Lonnie Zamora -
 - and formulating sensible questions.

"Socorro 'Saucer'" is a superior piece of ufological sleuthing;
perhaps its most valuable contribution to the field is
Stanford's meticulous, scientifically informed analysis of the
landing site. The implications of the Socorro landing are
multiplex and Stanford does an admirable job of zeroing in on
the salient issues. After reading "Socorro 'Saucer'," there is
virtually no doubt in my mind that the Socorro incident was a
physically real event involving an apparent craft of
extraordinary manufacture. This is a fascinating, grounded
volume well worth seeking out.


=====
>Mac Tonnies (macbot@yahoo.com)

Explore MTVI @ http://www.mactonnies.com

Posthuman Blues: http://posthumanblues.blogspot.com (daily blog)







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                      Re: Reagan And The Aliens - McCoy

From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy@charter.net>
Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 22:03:37 -0700
Fwd Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 09:59:13 -0400
Subject: Re: Reagan And The Aliens - McCoy


>From: Lan Fleming <lfleming5@houston.rr.com>
>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 16:13:13 -0500
>Subject: Re: Reagan And The Aliens

>>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
>>Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 12:04:55 -0500
>>Fwd Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 14:12:37 -0400
>>Subject: Reagan And The Aliens

>Snip<

>I can't vouch for the authenticity of this story, but it's the
>sort of thing that a journalistic biographer is not likely to
>even check into before jumping to a more palatable psychosocial
>conclusion. Why bother when you can blame everything on
>Hollywood and science fiction? I understand that there are also
>lots of pelicans in California.

Hello all,Lan.

More Pelicans in California than in Washington in 1947.


GT McCoy






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                Re: John Ford Redux (SDI 6 September, 2003) -

From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com>
Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 22:34:48 -0700
Fwd Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 10:02:04 -0400
Subject: Re: John Ford Redux (SDI 6 September, 2003) -


>From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 08:17:06 -0500
>Subject: Re: John Ford Redux (SDI 6 September, 2003)

>>From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com>
>>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 12:31:22 -0700
>>Subject: Re: John Ford Redux (SDI 6 September, 2003)

>>>From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>>Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 05:18:36 -0500
>>>Subject: Re: John Ford Redux (SDI 6 September, 2003)

>>>>From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com>
>>>>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>>>Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 11:37:40 -0700
>>>>Subject: Re: John Ford Redux (SDI 6 September, 2003)

><snip>

>>>>I know John Ford. I exchanged info with him and helped spread
>>>>his investigation into the crash of an alien space craft near
>>>>Moriches Bay on September 28th,1989...through out the MUFONET
>>>>Back bone, prior to the Internet, via BBS"s, (Bulletin Board
>>>>Systems.)

>>>For the record, Mr. Ford also attempted to curry favorable
>>>reporting from ParaNet at the time of the Moriches Bay
>>>'incident'. We chose to pass. Let history judge our decision.

>>>Ok, Mr Speiser, in as much as these three sentences fairly drip
>>>with negative assessment, bad criticism, and disqualifying
>>>innuendo... what history are _you_ counting on? Was Ford's
>>>ethical behavior something less than I indicated it was? Was
>>>his community efficacy in any way other than was reported? Were
>>>the facts regarding John Powell's criminality, and John Ford's
>>>even oblique investigation of that criminality improperly
>>>iterated?

>>I really don't remember much about his legal problems. My
>>comments were focused on his crash/retrieval report, which we
>>found wanting in terms of credibility.

>Ok, Sir - that's fine. Those in conflict with Ford's ufological
>assertions are legion... but that's not really the point, now,
>is it!

>It remains that Ford's (not all _that_ loopy) ufological
>convictions were used to qualify his mental instability _and_
>that he was a good man with a spotless record... busily
>investigating a man (one John Powell) with a record _decidedly_
>spotty... and he has been paying a horrendous price for his
>lawful investigation of John Powell since 1996. That's the
>issue.

If you say so. I was merely responding to the part of your
post that said,

>>>>I know John Ford. I exchanged info with him and helped spread
>>>>his investigation into the crash of an alien space craft near
>>>>Moriches Bay on September 28th,1989...through out the MUFONET
>>>>Back bone, prior to the Internet, via BBS"s, (Bulletin Board
>>>>Systems.)

from which I gathered that the issue was the crash of an alien
space craft near Moriches Bay, etc., etc., for which we found
the evidence _decidedly_ spotty...


==JJS==







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                Re: John Ford Redux (SDI 6 September, 2003) -

From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com>
Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 22:34:48 -0700
Fwd Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 10:02:04 -0400
Subject: Re: John Ford Redux (SDI 6 September, 2003) -


>From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 08:17:06 -0500
>Subject: Re: John Ford Redux (SDI 6 September, 2003)

>>From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com>
>>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 12:31:22 -0700
>>Subject: Re: John Ford Redux (SDI 6 September, 2003)

>>>From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>>Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 05:18:36 -0500
>>>Subject: Re: John Ford Redux (SDI 6 September, 2003)

>>>>From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com>
>>>>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>>>Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 11:37:40 -0700
>>>>Subject: Re: John Ford Redux (SDI 6 September, 2003)

><snip>

>>>>I know John Ford. I exchanged info with him and helped spread
>>>>his investigation into the crash of an alien space craft near
>>>>Moriches Bay on September 28th,1989...through out the MUFONET
>>>>Back bone, prior to the Internet, via BBS"s, (Bulletin Board
>>>>Systems.)

>>>For the record, Mr. Ford also attempted to curry favorable
>>>reporting from ParaNet at the time of the Moriches Bay
>>>'incident'. We chose to pass. Let history judge our decision.

>>>Ok, Mr Speiser, in as much as these three sentences fairly drip
>>>with negative assessment, bad criticism, and disqualifying
>>>innuendo... what history are _you_ counting on? Was Ford's
>>>ethical behavior something less than I indicated it was? Was
>>>his community efficacy in any way other than was reported? Were
>>>the facts regarding John Powell's criminality, and John Ford's
>>>even oblique investigation of that criminality improperly
>>>iterated?

>>I really don't remember much about his legal problems. My
>>comments were focused on his crash/retrieval report, which we
>>found wanting in terms of credibility.

>Ok, Sir - that's fine. Those in conflict with Ford's ufological
>assertions are legion... but that's not really the point, now,
>is it!

>It remains that Ford's (not all _that_ loopy) ufological
>convictions were used to qualify his mental instability _and_
>that he was a good man with a spotless record... busily
>investigating a man (one John Powell) with a record _decidedly_
>spotty... and he has been paying a horrendous price for his
>lawful investigation of John Powell since 1996. That's the
>issue.

If you say so. I was merely responding to the part of your
post that said,

>>>>I know John Ford. I exchanged info with him and helped spread
>>>>his investigation into the crash of an alien space craft near
>>>>Moriches Bay on September 28th,1989...through out the MUFONET
>>>>Back bone, prior to the Internet, via BBS"s, (Bulletin Board
>>>>Systems.)

from which I gathered that the issue was the crash of an alien
space craft near Moriches Bay, etc., etc., for which we found
the evidence _decidedly_ spotty...


==JJS==







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   Sep > Sep 15

                     Re: Last week (9/5) On SDI - Velez

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 12:26:56 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 10:09:08 -0400
Subject: Re: Last week (9/5) On SDI - Velez


>From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 01:46:22 -0300
>Subject: Re: Last Saturday Night On SDI

>>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
>>Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 14:28:01 -0400
>>Subject: Last Saturday Night On SDI

>>It's Tuesday and still not a peep on the List about the testimony
>>we heard from air traffic controller, Enrique Kolbeck on SDI
>>Saturday night. Did _anybody_ catch the interview?

>>EBK has posted it at:

>>http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/sdi/program/sdi2003.html

>>for anyone who missed it. Its program #256

>>Anyway...

>>On Saturday night Jaime Maussan along with Enrique Kolbeck, one
>>of Mexico City airports' air traffic controllers, gave shocking
>>testimony about a 'safety problem' being posed to pilots and air
>>traffic support personnel by "UFOs" in Mexico City's airspace.

<snip>

Hello All,

I manage to wrangle up an air traffic controller who is willing
to testify in public, who also happens to be in touch with other
pilots and air traffic personnel from other airports in Mexico,
who are also willing to discuss a "UFO" problem they are
encountering in their air space and not a single peep or a
whimper from anyone on this List.

Never mind the researchers, I just can't believe that _nobody_
has _anything_ to say about these amazing revelations from
experienced professionals with solid credentials. For Keerists
sake, the *John Ford thread got more of a response than than
this earth-shaking testimony did. (*No offense to Alfred or John
Ford intended. I'm just saying... )

I 'thought' this was a "UFO" and related phenomena discussion
List. It appears that for the esteemed members of this List,
pilots and air traffic personnel do not fall into the category
of 'credible witnesses' that are worthy of the least bit of
consideration or discussion. Was I in the can when the focus of
this List was changed? Does this kind of "proof" not count for
anything? Not worthy of a look-see?


Sorry to clutter up the bandwidth here with solid witnesses and
facts. You can all go back to whatever it is you do here. I
promise not to take up any more of the Lists valuable time and
bandwidth with this kind of distracting poop. Honestly, I
question why I even bother sometimes.

I'm married ya know. I can stay at home and be ignored!


John Velez
with boggled mind





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   Sep > Sep 15

                     First Images Taken Of Chupacabras?

From: Scott Corrales <lornis1@earthlink.net>
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 13:49:46 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 10:26:36 -0400
Subject: First Images Taken Of Chupacabras?


SOURCE: Diario La Estrella del Loa (Chile)
DATE: September 13, 2003

First Images Taken Of Chupacabras?

After analyzing the digital image, it was established that the
shadow corresponds to a being with thse characteristics.

The "Chupacabras" phenomenon has become one of the most
important mysteries of recent years in Calama and in the
country. The stories and experiences of many people who have
seen animals die in bizarre fashion have caused many researchers
to become devoted almost exclusively to the subject.

Newspapers, magazines and TV shows have devoted considerable
space in an effort to solve the enigma. However, a true image of
the creature has never been presented. For this reason it was
always spoken of in terms of a myth, or something unknown.

However, researcher Jaime Ferrer, known in Calama and in other
latitudes, presented to this newspaper as an exclusive what may
be the first audiovisual take of the Chupacabras.

According to his own version, the tape was presented on the Mega
network's "La Ley de la Selva" program. However, the strange
being's presence was not noticed during the original screening.

"The image was presented to show the site whre some attacks had
occurred (Codao, Peumo, Sixth Region). After a while, researcher
and TV producer Claudio Ojeda Asmussen, noticed that there was a
strange shadow moving among the bushes at the site."

After analyzing the image over three months and through the use
of modern computer software, "it was established that [the
shadow] was that of an unknown animal, in other words, the
Chupacabras, thus becoming the most important piece of
audiovisual evidence in the field of cryptozoology in recent
years."

According to background information supplied by Ferrer, the
creature has strange characteristics. Its stride resembles that
of an ape, but traits of other animals can be seen in its
structure, such as a feline, a dog, and even some sort of
"hoses" that dangle from its muzzle and through which "it would
drain the blood of animals," explained the ufologist from the El
Loa region.

Ferrer explained that "Claudio Ojeda is the intellectual autor
of this discovery, as well as of the complex digital analysis
performed on the recording. He called me, since he knows my
research. I attest to the truthfulness of the recording and to
the earnesty of his work."

"This represents a very important step in clarifying this
phenomenon. Here we have a creature that is on the surface of
the earth, captured on videotape, and not a figment of the
imagination or a tall tale.".

The full video can be seen at the following address:

http://www.angelfire.com/fl/ufomiami/CalamaUFOCenter/

---

Translation (C) 2003 Scott Corrales
Institute of Hispanic Ufology
Special thanks to Gloria Coluchi and Dr. Virgilio
Sanchez Ocejo








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                     Link To Alleged Chupacabras Footage

From: Scott Corrales <lornis1@earthlink.net>
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 13:53:18 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 10:29:16 -0400
Subject: Link To Alleged Chupacabras Footage


Dear Readers of INEXPLICATA:

Researcher and contributor Gloria Coluchi has told me that this
is the corrected link to the site, but that nothing much can be
made out beyond a "blurry shadow".

http://www.angelfire.com/fl/ufomiami/CalamaUFOCenter/VideoDS.html

Please address any specific questions to Dr. Virgilio Sanchez at UFOMIAMI.


Regards and thanks,

Scott Corrales
Inexplicata
Institute of Hispanic Ufology (IHU)
www.inexplicata.us








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                 New Witnesses In Whitehaven UK UFO Sighting

From: Chris Parr <cparr@talk21.com>
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 00:36:16 +0100
Fwd Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 10:33:33 -0400
Subject: New Witnesses In Whitehaven UK UFO Sighting


New witnesses have emerged in connection with the UFO sightings
around the Whitehaven, Cumbria area which occurred on the 23rd
August 2003 around 9:45pm. With striking consistency, the
witnesses describe the UFO as a "gigantic orange street lamp"
which floated across the Solway Firth and headed towards the
Lake District.

On the 27th July 2003 at 1.40pm, several West Cumbrian residents
had witnessed an aerial object in which various and separate
descriptions comprised of "a silent Concorde", Global Hawk, and
the US Predator. The local press were contacted by the public
yet did not publish the ufo reports due to possibility of
"unusual air traffic" in connection with the Sunderland Air show
which was held on the same afternoon as the sightings. Of the
various aircraft on display at Sunderland, could the Nimrod Mr2
be mistaken for the Predator? It has proved difficult to
determine or eliminate this possibility.

Whitehaven is approx 120 miles from Sunderland.

UFO researchers from the coastal areas of North West England and
Southern Scotland are confident that experimental UAVs are being
test flown over the Irish sea, yet it hard to define the
sightings of the "gigantic orange street lamp" of the Cumbrian
skies.

Any assistance, ideas or possibilities appreciated.


Best wishes,

Chris Parr








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                 Chupacabras Description Analyses Performed

From: Scott Corrales <lornis1@earthlink.net>
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 08:46:48 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 11:59:38 -0400
Subject: Chupacabras Description Analyses Performed




Source: Miami UFO Center
Date:   September 14, 2003

Description Of Chupacabras As A Result Of Analyses Performed

The following are the characteristics observed as a result of
digital analysis, for which state of the art equipment and
sophisticated computer software programs were employed, as well
as the experience of belonging to a family of photographers.

This analysis lasted approximately 60 days and is still ongoing.

THE RECORDING

The duration in which the animal can be seen is of approximately
4 seconds. The distance from the camera's position to the
subject under analysis is approximately 15 to 20 meters.

Its appearance, at a glance, is that of a black panther
combining canine and ape characteristics. But detail is only
possible through the result of an objective digital analysis.

TRUE APPEARANCE OF THE ANIMAL

Its size - horizontally - is approximately 1.8 meters long by 1.4
meters tall.

It has two ears similar to those of a donkey but much thinner,
with an approximate length of 30 centimeters. When these are in
repose, they remain straight and forward (rigid). Upon observing
or feeling itself under observation, it moves them backward at a
90 degree angle, approximately. At no time does it relax or put
its ears back, as is the case with most animals; they always
move in the same direction, from front to back.

On its abdominal region it present four cannulae or segmented
tubes which appear to emerge from its dorsal area and are
attached to its body. These cannulae, ended in semi-rounded
points, hang beneath its abdomen forming a ring. Something
similar can be found on its neck but these are short, thick and
semi-conical. Between its nasal region and muzzle other dangling
cannulae can be seen, these being shorter and lighter in color,
and which it appears to be able to contract and extend at will.
Speculatively, it might be able to employ them as siphons to
drain its victims' blood.

Between these cannulae, which emerge under its nose, a strange
pair of vampire-like fangs can be seen to emerge from the upper
mandible, linking in a rounded manner, opening slightly at their
ends and curving backward, like powerful claww.

It has a powerful jaw and a broad muzzle with long upper fangs.

Its  nose presents large nasal openings, a combination of pig,
mandrill and wolf.

Seen sideways, its face resembles that of a large feline, but
seen face-on, [it resembles] a fusion between wolf, feline, pig
and mandrill. It further presents a slight protuberance in the
upper rear part of its skull.

It features a pair of curvilinear upper wings which fold and
emerge from behind its neck, like the wings on a hawk. These
weings present three folds from beginning to end, with the last
one fold being the one of largest size.

It is further endowed with two medium-sized lateral fins that
emerge from behind each one of the front legs, which are linked
to a "semi-rectangular" prominence or bulk located in the
underarm joint of said extremity.

The wings resemble those of a bat, where bones adhered to the
skin can be identified, showing several final flolds and fan-
shaped joints on the base.

It features membranes or pseudo-wings which link the front arms
with the medial abdominal region of its body and has
characteristics which are very similar to the aforementioned
wings, only thinner. In a resting position, these [pseudo-wings]
assume the shape of an inverted "V". Its skin is slightly
lighter in color and crossed by thin bones.

It has a short tail, measuring some 20 cm. in length with a mean
thickness of 5 cm. resembling a thick sausage, which it shakes
quickly.

Its upper wings, when folded over its back, become fused with
its fur. Slight protuberances (on its back) can be seen which
would be the edges of the pointed folds of the folded wings.
Toward the end of the body, the endings or tips of the wings
mounted (sic) or in repose can be clearly seen, above and
between the tail.

It's hind legs are noticeably longer than the front ones. It
walks with its hind legs flexed--as though crouching--opening
them sideways; it walks normally with its front legs. Its gait
has a certain resemblance with that of a large lizard. Both arms
and legs on its upper section appear thick and strong. Four long
frontal toes joined by a membrane can be seen in its hind legs,
plus a dewclaw with medium sized nails.

The color of the creature's skin on its head and the ends of its
feet and hands are dark in color, rather black, while the rest
of the body has a dark brown shade that is only slightly lighter
in the abdominal area. Reddish shades are evident on its nose
and upper wings (back). Certain lighter shades can also be seen
toward the tips of the upper folded wings (over the tail).

It is not possible to establish sexual organs.

It walks quickly, talking great strides, but the movement of its
wings and face (attention and reaction) is far swifter.
Movements are very similar to those of a lizard.

Its eyes are elongated and swept backward, menacing, curved and
following the shape of its skull.

The analyses are still ongoing. New details on this creature may
still be found.

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

Translation (C) 2003 Scott Corrales
Institute of Hispanic Ufology
Special thanks to Dr. Virgilio S=E1nchez-Ocejo
Miami UFO Center







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                     Re: Reagan And The Aliens - Speiser

From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com>
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 06:42:28 -0700
Fwd Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 12:03:24 -0400
Subject: Re: Reagan And The Aliens - Speiser


>From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 16:28:14 -0700
>Subject: Re: Reagan And The Aliens

>>From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com>
>>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 12:28:04 -0700
>>Subject: Re: Reagan And The Aliens

>>>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
>>>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>>Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 12:04:55 -0500
>>>Subject: Reagan And The Aliens

>>I remember those references, and I always took his meaning as,
>>"see, we would FIND a way to cooperate under those circumstances,
>>which means there IS a way for us to cooperate, so why wait for
>>an invasion, let's start now!" Made sense to me in that context,
>>and I saw no reason to jump to the conclusion that he knew
>>something we didn't.

>>But try to convince the conspiracists.....

>Why do so few people listen to such simple logic as yours? Maybe
>they  drink insufficient beers.

There ain't enough beer in the world to catch up to my train of
thought. But Bombay Sapphire Martinis might be a quick way to
head me off at the crossing.....


Jim 'Three Olives' Speiser







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                     Re: Reagan And The Aliens - Speiser

From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com>
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 06:49:05 -0700
Fwd Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 12:05:29 -0400
Subject: Re: Reagan And The Aliens - Speiser


>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 18:46:25 -0500
>Subject: Re: Reagan And The Aliens

>>From: Lan Fleming <lfleming5@houston.rr.com>
>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>>Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 16:13:13 -0500
>>Subject: Re: Reagan And The Aliens

>>>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
>>>Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 12:04:55 -0500
>>>Fwd Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 14:12:37 -0400
>>>Subject: Reagan And The Aliens

>>>Recently, reading Lou Cannon's President Reagan: The Role of a
>>>Lifetime (Simon & Schuster, 1991), I found an illuminating
>>>discussion of Reagan's obsession with aliens on pages 60-64.
>>>It's too long to copy in its entirety, but essentially Cannon -
>>>- regarded as Reagan's best journalistic biographer, and author
>>>of no fewer than four books on his life and career -- judges
>>>this fascination to have its origins in the influence of movies
>>>on Reagan's imagination and character.

>>"Ronald Reagan said, while governor of California, "I was in a
>>plane last week when I looked out the window and saw this white
>>light. It was zigzagging around." "I went up to the pilot and
>>said, "Have you ever seen anything like that?" He was shocked
>>and he said, "Nope." And I said to him: "Let's follow it!" "We
>>followed it for several minutes. It was a bright white light."
>>"We followed it to Bakersfield, and all of a sudden to our utter
>>amazement it went straight up into the heavens." "When I got off
>>the plane I told Nancy all about it, but we didn't file a report
>>on the object because for a long time they considered you a nut
>>if you saw a UFO..." Ronald Reagan, 1974"

As I recall, there was some question as to the authenticity of
this anecdote. I remember Stan F. got into a row with Ron Jr. on
a TV program, the latter insisting it never happened or he would
have known about it. Has it ever been confirmed/cross-
checked/documented/ whatever? (Not necessarily the incident
itself, but Reagan's quote about it).


==JJS==








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                Re: John Ford Redux (SDI 6 September, 2003) -

From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 09:36:05 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 12:10:23 -0400
Subject: Re: John Ford Redux (SDI 6 September, 2003) -


>From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com>
>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 22:34:48 -0700
>Subject: Re: John Ford Redux (SDI 6 September, 2003)

>>From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 08:17:06 -0500
>>Subject: Re: John Ford Redux (SDI 6 September, 2003)

>>>From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com>
>>>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>>Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 12:31:22 -0700
>>>Subject: Re: John Ford Redux (SDI 6 September, 2003)

>>>>From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
>>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>>>Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 05:18:36 -0500
>>>>Subject: Re: John Ford Redux (SDI 6 September, 2003)

>>>>>From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com>
>>>>>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>>>>Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 11:37:40 -0700
>>>>>Subject: Re: John Ford Redux (SDI 6 September, 2003)

>><snip>

>>>>>I know John Ford. I exchanged info with him and helped spread
>>>>>his investigation into the crash of an alien space craft near
>>>>>Moriches Bay on September 28th,1989...through out the MUFONET
>>>>>Back bone, prior to the Internet, via BBS"s, (Bulletin Board
>>>>>Systems.)

>>>>For the record, Mr. Ford also attempted to curry favorable
>>>>reporting from ParaNet at the time of the Moriches Bay
>>>>'incident'. We chose to pass. Let history judge our decision.

>>>>Ok, Mr Speiser, in as much as these three sentences fairly drip
>>>>with negative assessment, bad criticism, and disqualifying
>>>>innuendo... what history are _you_ counting on? Was Ford's
>>>>ethical behavior something less than I indicated it was? Was
>>>>his community efficacy in any way other than was reported? Were
>>>>the facts regarding John Powell's criminality, and John Ford's
>>>>even oblique investigation of that criminality improperly
>>>>iterated?

>>>I really don't remember much about his legal problems. My
>>>comments were focused on his crash/retrieval report, which we
>>>found wanting in terms of credibility.

>>Ok, Sir - that's fine. Those in conflict with Ford's ufological
>>assertions are legion... but that's not really the point, now,
>>is it!

>>It remains that Ford's (not all _that_ loopy) ufological
>>convictions were used to qualify his mental instability _and_
>>that he was a good man with a spotless record... busily
>>investigating a man (one John Powell) with a record _decidedly_
>>spotty... and he has been paying a horrendous price for his
>>lawful investigation of John Powell since 1996. That's the
>>issue.
>
>If you say so. I was merely responding to the part of your
>post that said,
>
>>>>>I know John Ford. I exchanged info with him and helped spread
>>>>>his investigation into the crash of an alien space craft near
>>>>>Moriches Bay on September 28th,1989...through out the MUFONET
>>>>>Back bone, prior to the Internet, via BBS"s, (Bulletin Board
>>>>>Systems.)

>from which I gathered that the issue was the crash of an alien
>space craft near Moriches Bay, etc., etc., for which we found
>the evidence _decidedly_ spotty...


Mr. Speiser;

I gaze at you with incredulity plain on my face! That concern
was addressed at the beginning of this thread! That's not the
issue, as has already been pointed out, twice now I think...
what is the genesis of your reluctance to cop to the point here?
Is it me? Poets aren't serious enough for you? LOL! You shelter
yourself too much I think, and I say that unaware of what you
might have on _your_ mind.

John Ford, a non-criminal, had ufological convictions used
against him to facilitate the private agenda of a _known_
criminal who is having an easy time of it while Ford suffers
years of unending and extreme torment for investigating that
criminal... have you any comment on -that-?


Lehmberg@snowhill.com

Photo Album: http://www.alienview.net/AVAlbum.htm
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                   Re: New Westminster UFO Footage - Vike

From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO <hbccufo@telus.net>
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 07:34:03 -0700
Fwd Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 12:14:09 -0400
Subject: Re: New Westminster UFO Footage - Vike


>From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 20:35:59 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
>Subject: Re: New Westminster UFO Footage

>>From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO <hbccufo@telus.net>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>>Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 21:25:12 -0700
>>Subject: New Westminster UFO Footage

><snip>

>>Well this morning I went to my postal mail box and picked up a
>>copy of the New Westminster UFO video footage. So now I have the
>>full length feature, you might say. I am going to write up a
>>report on this over the weekend and from what I've seen, the
>>balloon idea is out with the baby's bath water, this is for darn
>>sure. Everyone, I mean everyone has seen only a portion of this
>>footage and there are a heck of a lot more very important
>>scenes to this. Matter of fact the tape has blown my mind this
>>is for sure. What it is, who knows? But I am sure I know what it
>>isn't!!!!

>>I have to say this is one of the best video of an unknown I have
>>seen.

>>So full report coming soon.

><snip>

>I for one will anxiously be waiting to read your report. Is
>there any possibility for other researchers, including myself,
>being able to examine the full video recording of this "UFO"
>too? From what I have already seen of this "UFO" video at Jeff
>Rense's and Whitley Strieber's web sites, it appears to be a
>helium filled foil balloon, just like the one my seven year old
>nephew and I launched under the same time of day and similar
>clear sky conditions from Orleans, Ontario (a residential suburb
>of Ottawa with about the same population as New Westminster,
>B.C., a suburb of Vancouver). Jeff, Whitley and others were sent
>digital images of our Orleans "UFO" which looked and behaved
>just like the New Westminster "UFO". Did you get these same
>digital images I sent to you too?

>Included with the pictures I sent of the Orleans "UFO" were
>digital images of three distant aircraft that were in the sky
>moments after our balloon launch. Except possibly the one with a
>very short contrail, all three images do not show the obvious
>aircaft shapes we saw with our own eyes and could very easily be
>mistaken to be UFOs too, especially when you greatly zoom in
>just like in the New Westminster "UFO" video.

>Video/digital cameras can be both a blessing and a curse to any
>serious ufo studies and certainly not proof of anything...


Good Morning

I almost have the report almost done, I am certainly in no rush
and have other things on the go as well, besides having a life.
You asked if other researchers and yourself could have a copy of
the tape for examination. I don't think I am going to be
shelling out any money Nick to send along the tape to you when
your mind is completely made up. With permission from the fellow
who took the footage, I would send the tape to someone who can
be impartial when reaching a conclusion for the object in the
footage. For now it will stay right here with me and in the
owners possession. One has to remember, just because I have a
copy of it, doesn't me it is my property, which it isn't.

So if permission is given to have someone look at the tape,
there will be "one copy "only" from me going out of here. The
last time I had footage, last year it seems I was flooded with
requests for a copy of tape. I certainly have learnt a lesson
there.


Brian








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                     Re: Last week (9/5) On SDI - Kaeser

From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 11:05:52 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 12:16:33 -0400
Subject: Re: Last week (9/5) On SDI - Kaeser


>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
>Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 12:26:56 -0400
>Subject: Re: Last week (9/5) On SDI

<snip>

>I 'thought' this was a "UFO" and related phenomena discussion
>List. It appears that for the esteemed members of this List,
>pilots and air traffic personnel do not fall into the category
>of 'credible witnesses' that are worthy of the least bit of
>consideration or discussion. Was I in the can when the focus of
>this List was changed? Does this kind of "proof" not count for
>anything? Not worthy of a look-see?

>Sorry to clutter up the bandwidth here with solid witnesses and
>facts. You can all go back to whatever it is you do here. I
>promise not to take up any more of the Lists valuable time and
>bandwidth with this kind of distracting poop. Honestly, I
>question why I even bother sometimes.

>I'm married ya know. I can stay at home and be ignored!


John,

I find the information very interesting, but really don't know
anything about it, other than what I've read here. I know that
was a subject that was convered on Strange Days, and it's
available in the audio archive, but it would be far more
effective if the story was written up and posted to the List for
all to read and digest.

Have any of the pilots involved in these sightings filed their
information with NARCAP, which would at least protect them from
retribution and allow researchers access to their statements?
Again, this may have been done, but I've not seen it mentioned
here.

Steve







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                    Re: Last week (9/5) On SDI - Lehmberg

From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 10:05:00 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 12:25:40 -0400
Subject: Re: Last week (9/5) On SDI - Lehmberg


>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
>Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 12:26:56 -0400
>Subject: Re: Last week (9/5) On SDI

>I manage to wrangle up an air traffic controller who is willing
>to testify in public, who also happens to be in touch with other
>pilots and air traffic personnel from other airports in Mexico,
>who are also willing to discuss a "UFO" problem they are
>encountering in their air space and not a single peep or a
>whimper from anyone on this List.

>Never mind the researchers, I just can't believe that _nobody_
>has _anything_ to say about these amazing revelations from
>experienced professionals with solid credentials. For Keerists
>sake, the *John Ford thread got more of a response than than
>this earth-shaking testimony did. (*No offense to Alfred or John
>Ford intended. I'm just saying... )

>I 'thought' this was a "UFO" and related phenomena discussion
>List. It appears that for the esteemed members of this List,
>pilots and air traffic personnel do not fall into the category
>of 'credible witnesses' that are worthy of the least bit of
>consideration or discussion. Was I in the can when the focus of
>this List was changed? Does this kind of "proof" not count for
>anything? Not worthy of a look-see?

>Sorry to clutter up the bandwidth here with solid witnesses and
>facts. You can all go back to whatever it is you do here. I
>promise not to take up any more of the Lists valuable time and
>bandwidth with this kind of distracting poop. Honestly, I
>question why I even bother sometimes.

>I'm married ya know. I can stay at home and be ignored!

>John Velez
>with boggled mind


I share your bogglement, John. I think the response to your
thread can be explained by the aggregate (and completely
unjustified) lack of respect many have for what happens south of
the border. I detest that, as you know. Far too many would write
Mexican reports off as hallucinations of third-worlders wearing
grass skirts and banana-leaf vests... too many seem willing to
miss the point with you, too.

With regard to the response on the John Ford thread (I know what
you mean, I didn't take offense. You were quick with a
qualifier), notice that it's only to poke fun, or demonstrate
that they're not grasping the point though you can bet if it was
_them_ in jail... they'd be hanging on every word.


Lehmberg@snowhill.com

Photo Album: http://www.alienview.net/AVAlbum.htm
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                     Re: Last week (9/5) On SDI - Ledger

From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 12:35:45 -0300
Fwd Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 12:31:33 -0400
Subject: Re: Last week (9/5) On SDI - Ledger


>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
>Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 12:26:56 -0400
>Subject: Re: Last week (9/5) On SDI

>>From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 01:46:22 -0300
>>Subject: Re: Last Saturday Night On SDI

>I manage to wrangle up an air traffic controller who is willing
>to testify in public, who also happens to be in touch with other
>pilots and air traffic personnel from other airports in Mexico,
>who are also willing to discuss a "UFO" problem they are
>encountering in their air space and not a single peep or a
>whimper from anyone on this List.

>Never mind the researchers, I just can't believe that _nobody_
>has _anything_ to say about these amazing revelations from
>experienced professionals with solid credentials. For Keerists
>sake, the *John Ford thread got more of a response than than
>this earth-shaking testimony did. (*No offense to Alfred or John
>Ford intended. I'm just saying... )

>I 'thought' this was a "UFO" and related phenomena discussion
>List. It appears that for the esteemed members of this List,
>pilots and air traffic personnel do not fall into the category
>of 'credible witnesses' that are worthy of the least bit of
>consideration or discussion. Was I in the can when the focus of
>this List was changed? Does this kind of "proof" not count for
>anything? Not worthy of a look-see?

>Sorry to clutter up the bandwidth here with solid witnesses and
>facts. You can all go back to whatever it is you do here. I
>promise not to take up any more of the Lists valuable time and
>bandwidth with this kind of distracting poop. Honestly, I
>question why I even bother sometimes.

>I'm married ya know. I can stay at home and be ignored!


All I can say John is welcome to the club. I guess they aren't
as romantic as crop circles. I emailed one researcher on here
who was looking for information of the ATC sort and never got so
much as a kiss-my-ass for the info I sent. There was also a
thread dealing with a well organized hoax in the UK that cost
thousands of pounds [about 100 grand US] to implement, the
blessing of the CAA [I checked and it was cleared and monitored
by them] in the UK and seven RC with radios and a television
station. This one fell flat-despite the fact that it was an
orchestrated hoax apparently to freak out a UFO group which was
skywatching for UFOs. This didn't work. But no one finds this
odd. Even the Civil Aviation Authority in the UK. Too
complicated for most is my assessment.


Don Ledger







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              Re: Review: Socorro 'Saucer' In A Pentagon Pantry

From: Terry Groff <terry@terrygroff.com>
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 11:11:10 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 12:32:59 -0400
Subject: Re: Review: Socorro 'Saucer' In A Pentagon Pantry


>From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com>
>To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 20:39:48 -0700 (PDT)
>Subject: Review: Socorro 'Saucer' In A Pentagon Pantry


>Socorro "Saucer" In A Pentagon Pantry by Ray Stanford

>review by Mac Tonnies

>http://www.mactonnies.com/ufobooks.html


>Ray Stanford's 1976 "Socorro 'Saucer' in a Pentagon Pantry" is
>the definitive account of one of the most fascinating close
>encounters on record: the 1964 landing of an egg-shaped UFO in
>Socorro, New Mexico. As one of the case's few on-site
>researchers, Stanford is uniquely qualified and pursues the
>truth behind the landing with dogged persistance, interviewing
>the key players - foremost among them policeman Lonnie Zamora -
> - and formulating sensible questions.

>"Socorro 'Saucer'" is a superior piece of ufological sleuthing;
>perhaps its most valuable contribution to the field is
>Stanford's meticulous, scientifically informed analysis of the
>landing site. The implications of the Socorro landing are
>multiplex and Stanford does an admirable job of zeroing in on
>the salient issues. After reading "Socorro 'Saucer'," there is
>virtually no doubt in my mind that the Socorro incident was a
>physically real event involving an apparent craft of
>extraordinary manufacture. This is a fascinating, grounded
>volume well worth seeking out.


Here, Here

Lonnie Zamora doesn't like to talk about the incident much
anymore. When his daughter asked him about the event he handed
her a copy "Socorro 'Saucer'" and told her "It's all in there".

There has been an awful lot of "Stanford Bashing" on this list
lately (and I do mean 'awful') attempting to portray him as
some sort of 'space cadet' but if you were to read this book, I
think you will get a grasp of what a scientific and level-headed
approach to investigating an event can really be like.

Terry Groff
UFO Tools - http://terrygroff.com/ufotools/







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                         Acknowledging Ray Stanford

From: Chris Lambright <chrisl@fullofstars.com>
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 01:53:59 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 12:38:09 -0400
Subject: Acknowledging Ray Stanford


I've noted a few posts recently regarding Ray Stanford that I
would like to take a moment to respond to if I may.

Ray Stanford is a friend of mine and has been for a number of
years.

Our friendship grew out of a mutual interest in the Socorro case
and since we first met I have spent countless hours getting to
know him, including several trips to his home first in Texas and
then Baltimore.

In all the time I've known him I have never had any doubt about
his committment to serious, fact-based, investigation of the
UFO phenomenon. We have talked about his past interests, but his
having had a range of interests has never given me any reason to
doubt his credibility or veracity concerning UFOs or any other
subject.

Ray has always stressed a science-based approach, preferably
instrumented research (which we could use more of today... or is
there any?), that could yield useable data. His observational
skills are second to none... which his success in paleontology
will support.

As some of you know, there were people who doubted his fossil
and track discoveries, experts with justified reasons to wonder,
until they came to see for themselves.

I'm not sure what it is that he has going for him... call it a
keen eye, something psychic, incredible luck... the proof is in
the pudding as they say. The same applies to his work on the UFO
phenomenon. I believe strongly that in the end Ray's
contribution to science through his work on the UFO phenomenon
will be immense.

Much of what has been said on the List seems hypocritical to me.
To claim that an interest in one unusual subject, or experiences
with another, makes you not credible when it comes to UFO
phenomenon is ridiculous. Does interest in Bigfoot make you
questionable if you decided to study UFOs? If you're interested
in UFOs and want to study Loch Ness should we immediately
chastise you as an unreliable researcher simply because anyone
interested in UFO's must be unreliable? The CIA apparently
researched psychic phenomena... Percival Lowell wondered about
canals on Mars....

Bringing up irrelevant issues in an attempt to assassinate
anothers character is not something that makes the writer look
better. It only makes it clear that you were defensive over
something that must have hit close to home. I, for one, support
anyone who is honestly trying to contribute something to
resolving the UFO phenomenon... and I am totally comfortable
supporting Ray as both a researcher and a friend.


Thanks,

Chris Lambright







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                     Re: Last week (9/5) On SDI - Velez

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 13:20:50 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 16:27:12 -0400
Subject: Re: Last week (9/5) On SDI - Velez


>From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 10:05:00 -0500
>Subject: Re: Last week (9/5) On SDI

>>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
>>Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 12:26:56 -0400
>>Subject: Re: Last week (9/5) On SDI

>>I manage to wrangle up an air traffic controller who is willing
>>to testify in public, who also happens to be in touch with other
>>pilots and air traffic personnel from other airports in Mexico,
>>who are also willing to discuss a "UFO" problem they are
>>encountering in their air space and not a single peep or a
>>whimper from anyone on this List.

<snip>

>>Sorry to clutter up the bandwidth here with solid witnesses and
>>facts. You can all go back to whatever it is you do here. I
>>promise not to take up any more of the Lists valuable time and
>>bandwidth with this kind of distracting poop. Honestly, I
>>question why I even bother sometimes.
>
>>I'm married ya know. I can stay at home and be ignored!

>>John Velez
>>with boggled mind

Hello Alfred,

You responded:

>I share your bogglement, John. I think the response to your
>thread can be explained by the aggregate (and completely
>unjustified) lack of respect many have for what happens south of
>the border. I detest that, as you know. Far too many would write
>Mexican reports off as hallucinations of third-worlders wearing
>grass skirts and banana-leaf vests

Yowza! In my original post I said: " Out of a combination of
politics and prejudice Mexico (and anything that comes out of
it) is too easily blown off and disregarded by many North
Americans. That attitude cannot be allowed to prevail. Not if it
interferes with the process of enlightening and informing the
world about the reality of the UFO presence on our planet."

I said it because I firmly believe it is true.

>... too many seem willing to miss the point with you, too.

Because of my reason for being here I kind of expect that kind
of a blow-off from some people. Not from everybody though.
And especially from people who -know- me.

That's what is happening here. Total block-out.

>With regard to the response on the John Ford thread (I know what
>you mean, I didn't take offense. You were quick with a
>qualifier),

I only referred to it because the Ford information was featured
on the same SDI segment as the Mexico material. (by your
esteemed self.) I was in shock that _nobody_ made a peep about
what is important and _major_ testimony. Testimony from
experienced pilots and air traffic personnel/professionals is as
rock-solid as it gets. You'd 'think' that researchers especially
would be all over this like ugly on an ape.

But nooooo.

Like deer caught in the sudden glare of headlights, everyone on
this List is standing there frozen. No questions, no discussion,
nothing. As if everyone collectively decided to let it all go by
the boards because it is simply too much to deal with. I don't
know.

I don't understand it though. I thought that providing
_substantive_ information for consideration and debate was a
'part of' what we do here. Guess I was wrong, eh!

>notice that it's only to poke fun, or demonstrate
>that they're not grasping the point though you can bet if it was
>_them_ in jail... they'd be hanging on every word.

You've got that one right! For some... there is nothing like
waking up in the morning and finding a gift of loose cigarettes
on your pillow (from your amorous, 350 lb., convicted killer
cell-mate) to help put one in touch with reality! ;)

Maybe that's the kind of 'wake-up poke' a few folks need! <g>

Regards, CU out on the range...

John Velez







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                Re: John Ford Redux (SDI 6 September, 2003) -

From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com>
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 10:42:04 -0700
Fwd Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 16:29:39 -0400
Subject: Re: John Ford Redux (SDI 6 September, 2003) -


>From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 09:36:05 -0500
>Subject: Re: John Ford Redux (SDI 6 September, 2003)

>>From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com>
>>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 22:34:48 -0700
>>Subject: Re: John Ford Redux (SDI 6 September, 2003)

<snip>

>>from which I gathered that the issue was the crash of an alien
>>space craft near Moriches Bay, etc., etc., for which we found
>>the evidence _decidedly_ spotty...

>I gaze at you with incredulity plain on my face! That concern
>was addressed at the beginning of this thread! That's not the
>issue, as has already been pointed out, twice now I think...
>what is the genesis of your reluctance to cop to the point here?
>Is it me? Poets aren't serious enough for you? LOL! You shelter
>yourself too much I think, and I say that unaware of what you
>might have on _your_ mind.

>John Ford, a non-criminal, had ufological convictions used
>against him to facilitate the private agenda of a _known_
>criminal who is having an easy time of it while Ford suffers
>years of unending and extreme torment for investigating that
>criminal... have you any comment on -that-?

Not really, except to say that I know fleetingly little about
it, and so won't comment on his legal problems. I do recall that
Mr. Moseley had a bit to say about the whole thing, but I would
have to brush up on my back Saucer Smears to render any further
discussion meaningful, which strikes me as a bit of a paradox,
and so let's drop it here.


==JJS==







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                  Re: Acknowledging Ray Stanford - Stanford

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker@earthlink.net>
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 13:50:30 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 16:32:13 -0400
Subject: Re: Acknowledging Ray Stanford - Stanford


>From: Chris Lambright <chrisl@fullofstars.com>
>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 01:53:59 -0500
>Subject: Acknowledging Ray Stanford

>I've noted a few posts recently regarding Ray Stanford that I
>would like to take a moment to respond to if I may.

>Ray Stanford is a friend of mine and has been for a number of
>years.

>Our friendship grew out of a mutual interest in the Socorro case
>and since we first met I have spent countless hours getting to
>know him, including several trips to his home first in Texas and
>then Baltimore.

>In all the time I've known him I have never had any doubt about
>his committment to serious, fact-based, investigation of the
>UFO phenomenon. We have talked about his past interests, but his
>having had a range of interests has never given me any reason to
>doubt his credibility or veracity concerning UFOs or any other
>subject.

>Ray has always stressed a science-based approach, preferably
>instrumented research (which we could use more of today... or is
>there any?), that could yield useable data. His observational
>skills are second to none... which his success in paleontology
>will support.

>As some of you know, there were people who doubted his fossil
>and track discoveries, experts with justified reasons to wonder,
>until they came to see for themselves.

>I'm not sure what it is that he has going for him... call it a
>keen eye, something psychic, incredible luck... the proof is in
>the pudding as they say. The same applies to his work on the UFO
>phenomenon. I believe strongly that in the end Ray's
>contribution to science through his work on the UFO phenomenon
>will be immense.

>Much of what has been said on the List seems hypocritical to me.
>To claim that an interest in one unusual subject, or experiences
>with another, makes you not credible when it comes to UFO
>phenomenon is ridiculous. Does interest in Bigfoot make you
>questionable if you decided to study UFOs? If you're interested
>in UFOs and want to study Loch Ness should we immediately
>chastise you as an unreliable researcher simply because anyone
>interested in UFO's must be unreliable? The CIA apparently
>researched psychic phenomena... Percival Lowell wondered about
>canals on Mars....

>Bringing up irrelevant issues in an attempt to assassinate
>anothers character is not something that makes the writer look
>better. It only makes it clear that you were defensive over
>something that must have hit close to home. I, for one, support
>anyone who is honestly trying to contribute something to
>resolving the UFO phenomenon... and I am totally comfortable
>supporting Ray as both a researcher and a friend.


Thanks Chris, for that totally unsolicited and much appreciated
comment!

I didn't realize you were 'listening' to what's been transpiring
here.


Appreciatively,

Ray Stanford

"You know my method.  It is founded upon the observance of trifles." --
Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery







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              Re: Review: Socorro 'Saucer' In A Pentagon Pantry

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker@earthlink.net>
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 14:00:24 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 16:34:51 -0400
Subject: Re: Review: Socorro 'Saucer' In A Pentagon Pantry


>From: Terry Groff <terry@terrygroff.com>
>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 11:11:10 -0500
>Subject: Re: Review: Socorro 'Saucer' In A Pentagon Pantry

>>From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com>
>>To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>>Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 20:39:48 -0700 (PDT)
>>Subject: Review: Socorro 'Saucer' In A Pentagon Pantry

>>Socorro "Saucer" In A Pentagon Pantry by Ray Stanford

>>review by Mac Tonnies

>>http://www.mactonnies.com/ufobooks.html

 <snip>

>>"Socorro 'Saucer'" is a superior piece of ufological sleuthing;
>>perhaps its most valuable contribution to the field is
>>Stanford's meticulous, scientifically informed analysis of the
>>landing site. The implications of the Socorro landing are
>>multiplex and Stanford does an admirable job of zeroing in on
>>the salient issues. After reading "Socorro 'Saucer'," there is
>>virtually no doubt in my mind that the Socorro incident was a
>>physically real event involving an apparent craft of
>>extraordinary manufacture. This is a fascinating, grounded
>>volume well worth seeking out.

And Terry Groff said:

>Here, Here

>Lonnie Zamora doesn't like to talk about the incident much
>anymore. When his daughter asked him about the event he handed
>her a copy "Socorro 'Saucer'" and told her "It's all in there".

>There has been an awful lot of "Stanford Bashing" on this list
>lately (and I do mean 'awful') attempting to portray him as
>some sort of 'space cadet' but if you were to read this book, I
>think you will get a grasp of what a scientific and level-headed
>approach to investigating an event can really be like.


Heartfelt thanks, Terry,

Your unsolicited comments are deeply appreciated.

Ray Stanford

"You know my method. It is founded upon the observance of
trifles." -- Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery








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                     Re: Last week (9/5) On SDI - Velez

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 13:56:41 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 16:38:02 -0400
Subject: Re: Last week (9/5) On SDI - Velez


>From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 11:05:52 -0400
>Subject: Re: Last week (9/5) On SDI

>>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
>>Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 12:26:56 -0400
>>Subject: Re: Last week (9/5) On SDI

><snip>

>>I 'thought' this was a "UFO" and related phenomena discussion
>>List. It appears that for the esteemed members of this List,
>>pilots and air traffic personnel do not fall into the category
>>of 'credible witnesses' that are worthy of the least bit of
>>consideration or discussion. Was I in the can when the focus of
>>this List was changed? Does this kind of "proof" not count for
>>anything? Not worthy of a look-see?

>>Sorry to clutter up the bandwidth here with solid witnesses and
>>facts. You can all go back to whatever it is you do here. I
>>promise not to take up any more of the Lists valuable time and
>>bandwidth with this kind of distracting poop. Honestly, I
>>question why I even bother sometimes.

>>I'm married ya know. I can stay at home and be ignored!

Hi Steve,

You wrote:

>John,
>
>I find the information very interesting, but really don't know
>anything about it, other than what I've read here. I know that
>was a subject that was convered on Strange Days, and it's
>available in the audio archive, but it would be far more
>effective if the story was written up and posted to the List for
>all to read and digest.

Why do we also have to provide the List with a written
transcript in addition to the _comprehensive_ report/sound file
that EBK has created and posted to the Virtually Strange Network
archive? We have provided a clear and easily accessed sound file
of the whole interview. About the only ones who cannot take
advantage of it are people who use web TV rather than a computer
to access the Internet.

That there isn't an additional 'written' transcript is a poor
excuse for not taking the time to listen to the report or to
comment on it. I tracked these people down, recruited them to
appear in public on SDI and with EBK's help got them to testify
on the air.

On top of which, Errol spent several hours of his valuable time
cleaning up, editing and posting a sound file so that everyone
can can access the information and get it 'right from the horses
mouth. I then posted to the List so that everyone here would
know about it and be able to check it out for themselves. I
honestly believe that both EBK and myself have 'gone the extra
mile' to inform the public.

If someone wants to take the time to write a transcript, fine. I
don't have the time for myself it and besides, I think that not
having a written transcript is a really lame excuse for the lack
of List response anyway.

If anybody is up to the task of transcribing the program for
post to the List, contact Errol or myself and we'll do what we
can to help. I doubt if it will change a thing in terms of List
response, but I would enjoy being proven wrong. ;)

>Have any of the pilots involved in these sightings filed their
>information with NARCAP, which would at least protect them from
>retribution and allow researchers access to their statements?
>Again, this may have been done, but I've not seen it mentioned
>here.

I asked Don Ledger if pilots and air traffic personnel reports
from Mexico fall within the purview of NARCAP. Don is a busy guy
and he might have missed that one. So I'm not certain. I
wouldn't think so though.

There is a 'U.S. NARCAP' (Dick Haines and Ted Roe) and a
'Canadian NARCAP' (Don Ledger) but I've never heard of a
'Mexican NARCAP' where professionals from South of the border
can file reports and receive the kind of protections that you
mentioned.

I'm not on speaking terms with Ted Roe at the moment because of
differences about CFI and the Sci-Fi channel initiatives. Maybe
you can contact him and ask him if Mexican cases are a part of
the cases they catalog and investigate.

Regardless. I don't want this to end up collecting dust in a
file cabinet or buried on someone's hard drive. I am not letting
this one go. It's way too vital and important to the whole
question of UFOs.

As you know... my interest in the subject is more than mere
intellectual curiosity. This may be the wedge with officialdom
that we've all been looking for. Air traffic safety is the way
to go. Nothing else holds out the promise of response/results
that this issue does.

If we want to pry open the doors... here's a huge crowbar!

Regards,

John Velez







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                     Re: Last week (9/5) On SDI - Velez

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 14:10:12 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 16:41:45 -0400
Subject: Re: Last week (9/5) On SDI - Velez


>From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 12:35:45 -0300
>Subject: Re: Last week (9/5) On SDI

>>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
>>Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 12:26:56 -0400
>>Subject: Re: Last week (9/5) On SDI

>>>From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>>Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 01:46:22 -0300
>>>Subject: Re: Last Saturday Night On SDI

>>I manage to wrangle up an air traffic controller who is willing
>>to testify in public, who also happens to be in touch with other
>>pilots and air traffic personnel from other airports in Mexico,
>>who are also willing to discuss a "UFO" problem they are
>>encountering in their air space and not a single peep or a
>>whimper from anyone on this List.

>>Never mind the researchers, I just can't believe that _nobody_
>>has _anything_ to say about these amazing revelations from
>>experienced professionals with solid credentials. For Keerists
>>sake, the *John Ford thread got more of a response than than
>>this earth-shaking testimony did. (*No offense to Alfred or John
>>Ford intended. I'm just saying... )

>>I 'thought' this was a "UFO" and related phenomena discussion
>>List. It appears that for the esteemed members of this List,
>>pilots and air traffic personnel do not fall into the category
>>of 'credible witnesses' that are worthy of the least bit of
>>consideration or discussion. Was I in the can when the focus of
>>this List was changed? Does this kind of "proof" not count for
>>anything? Not worthy of a look-see?

>>Sorry to clutter up the bandwidth here with solid witnesses and
>>facts. You can all go back to whatever it is you do here. I
>>promise not to take up any more of the Lists valuable time and
>>bandwidth with this kind of distracting poop. Honestly, I
>>question why I even bother sometimes.

>>I'm married ya know. I can stay at home and be ignored!

Hiya Dandy Don,

You wrote:

>All I can say John is welcome to the club.

I already belong to one club that nobody wants to join
(abductees) so I think I've reached my 'club membership' quota.
:)

My friend Tommy King sent me a note off-List saying exactly the
same thing. I agree. It's frustrating as hell. I'll say that
much about it.

>I emailed one researcher on here who was looking for information
>of the ATC sort and never got so much as a kiss-my-ass for the
>info I sent.

Wham, bam thank you maam! I've heard that one before from
researchers that took the time and expense to send in cases for
consideration by CFI and the Sci-Fi channel. Not even an
acknowledgement of receipt much less something as hefty as an
actual thank-you. But then, there ya go! Mind you, if you say
anything about it, you are considered to be 'attacking' them!

In Yiddish: "Oy gevalt!" (What a world!)

>Too complicated for most is my assessment.

I'm beginning to think that maybe you are right. Geez, I hope
not. If so, we're all royally screwed! All that work and for
what? To have it all completely ignored?

Gimme a break. There has to be a better way.

Warm regards,

John







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                      Re: Reagan And The Aliens - Hall

From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 19:23:00 +0000
Fwd Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 16:44:23 -0400
Subject: Re: Reagan And The Aliens - Hall


>From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com>
>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 06:42:28 -0700
>Subject: Re: Reagan And The Aliens

>>From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 16:28:14 -0700
>>Subject: Re: Reagan And The Aliens

>>>From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com>
>>>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>>Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 12:28:04 -0700
>>>Subject: Re: Reagan And The Aliens

>>>>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
>>>>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>>>Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 12:04:55 -0500
>>>>Subject: Reagan And The Aliens

>>>I remember those references, and I always took his meaning as,
>>>"see, we would FIND a way to cooperate under those circumstances,
>>>which means there IS a way for us to cooperate, so why wait for
>>>an invasion, let's start now!" Made sense to me in that context,
>>>and I saw no reason to jump to the conclusion that he knew
>>>something we didn't.

>>>But try to convince the conspiracists.....

>>Why do so few people listen to such simple logic as yours? Maybe
>>they  drink insufficient beers.

>There ain't enough beer in the world to catch up to my train of
>thought. But Bombay Sapphire Martinis might be a quick way to
>head me off at the crossing.....

>Jim 'Three Olives' Speiser

A man with excellent taste.

 - Dick "Two Olives Will Do" Hall








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              Re: Review: Socorro 'Saucer' In A Pentagon Pantry

From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 20:44:47 +0000
Fwd Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 17:02:13 -0400
Subject: Re: Review: Socorro 'Saucer' In A Pentagon Pantry


>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker@earthlink.net>
>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 14:00:24 -0400
>Subject: Re: Review: Socorro 'Saucer' In A Pentagon Pantry

>>From: Terry Groff <terry@terrygroff.com>
>>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 11:11:10 -0500
>>Subject: Re: Review: Socorro 'Saucer' In A Pentagon Pantry

>>>From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com>
>>>To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>>>Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 20:39:48 -0700 (PDT)
>>>Subject: Review: Socorro 'Saucer' In A Pentagon Pantry

>>>Socorro "Saucer" In A Pentagon Pantry by Ray Stanford

>>>review by Mac Tonnies

>>>http://www.mactonnies.com/ufobooks.html

><snip>

>>>"Socorro 'Saucer'" is a superior piece of ufological sleuthing;
>>>perhaps its most valuable contribution to the field is
>>>Stanford's meticulous, scientifically informed analysis of the
>>>landing site. The implications of the Socorro landing are
>>>multiplex and Stanford does an admirable job of zeroing in on
>>>the salient issues. After reading "Socorro 'Saucer'," there is
>>>virtually no doubt in my mind that the Socorro incident was a
>>>physically real event involving an apparent craft of
>>>extraordinary manufacture. This is a fascinating, grounded
>>>volume well worth seeking out.

>And Terry Groff said:

>>Here, Here

>>Lonnie Zamora doesn't like to talk about the incident much
>>anymore. When his daughter asked him about the event he handed
>>her a copy "Socorro 'Saucer'" and told her "It's all in there".

>>There has been an awful lot of "Stanford Bashing" on this list
>>lately (and I do mean 'awful') attempting to portray him as
>>some sort of 'space cadet' but if you were to read this book, I
>>think you will get a grasp of what a scientific and level-headed
>>approach to investigating an event can really be like.

>Heartfelt thanks, Terry,

>Your unsolicited comments are deeply appreciated.

>Ray Stanford

>"You know my method. It is founded upon the observance of
>trifles." -- Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery

Here is my counter-review:


Book Review: Socorro "Saucer" in a Pentagon Pantry, by Ray
Stanford (Austin, TX: Blueapple Books, 1976).

When Stanford's book was first published 12 years after the
Socorro case occurred, I was astonished at his claims and
wondered why he had said nothing in all those years if he
believed I was involved even indirectly in a cover-up. Why did
he wait 12 years (six years after I left NICAP) to make an issue
of my handling of the Socorro case? For all I knew until 1976,
Stanford reluctantly accepted the NASA analysis report despite
his obvious desire at the time to believe that he had conclusive
physical proof.

When Stanford first phoned me on June 20, 1975, he talked about
a book he was writing on the Socorro case. He did not tell me
that the book was going to be highly critical of me and my role
in the case and reach conclusions that contradicted those of
NICAP. Nor, obviously, did he give me any opportunity to comment
on the allegations that would be made before publishing them. In
fact, during this conversation I told him about a new report of
"fused sand" found at the site, discovered by Stanton Friedman
and investigated by Dr. James McDonald. He used this information
in the book without crediting it to me. I suppose that to credit
it to me would have tended to contradict his thesis (unknown to
me at the time) that I was a simpleton and/or a Government dupe.

Stanford even gets the date of the visit to NASA-Goddard wrong.
As verified by entries in Walt Webb's diary, we met with Ray on
July 23, 1964, and went to NASA-Goddard on July 24, 1964, not
July 31.

Stanford claims that I was told by Dr. Frankel at Goddard that
the preliminary analysis pointed toward an extraterrestrial
source, which of course when I denied it would make me out to be
either stupid or part of a cover-up. I absolutely deny being
told that, and can only attribute it to Stanford's will to
believe and or penchant for self-deception. Furthermore, at that
time no quantitative analyses had been conducted so that any
such suggestion is idiotic.

On p. 116, Stanford quite falsely attributes to me the decision
to go to NASA-Goddard for the analysis. The record of our
correspondence shows very clearly that the decision was his.
Several options were open to him, and I repeatedly asked which
he preferred. One was the Smithsonian Laboratories in Cambridge,
Mass., where Walt Webb was astronomy lecturer at the Charles
Hayden Planetarium and would be able to personally supervise the
analysis. Stanford also had an alternate possibility in Phoenix,
Ariz., and I suggested to him in a letter that if he felt it
would be competent and a public report made available, "that
would probably be the best arrangement." So, no one twisted
Stanford's arm or insisted that NASA-Goddard was the place to
go, contrary to his depiction of events.

Unfortunately, there are numerous other gross distortions in the
book, and some outright false statements. Although he does a
good job of reporting the basic facts of the case (with one or
two red herring exceptions), his version of what went on at
NICAP and what happened at NASA-Goddard is purely imaginary,
apparently a result of the systematic self-delusion (i.e., self-
deception, fooling oneself into believing something is true when
it isn't) that he has fallen victim too for most of his life.
(See his strong pattern of believing he was in touch with space
beings, channeling accurate information from real beings,
communicating with Brothers., etc., all initially believed and
then --according to him--later disowned.)

Stanford claimed to have surreptitiously taped Walt Webb and me
during the car ride to NASA-Goddard. When I challenged him in a
letter dated July 21, 1976, to produce a copy if the tape or
even a transcript, he admitted that he was bluffing and had not
done what he claimed. In the same letter, I asked him for copies
of the notes or phone memos made of the alleged phone
conversations with the two NASA scientists upon which he claims
to have based his "verbatim quotes." I am still waiting. I even
sent him a reminder on Dec. 13, 1976, which he also ignored.

Also, if he was going to surreptitiously tape anyone, why not
the NASA scientists whose alleged comments on the telephone
would be absolutely vital to support his claims. Instead, as in
many other instances, we have Stanford being the only person who
heard something of such great importance. There is much more,
but I will wait to use it only if Stanford persists in his myth-
making endeavors. Over a week ago I asked him to join me in a
statement on UFO Updates which would amount to a truce. We would
jointly recommend that everyone read his book and then my
rebuttal of it and make up their own minds. He replied that he
would have to think about it, and has said nothing more. He did
make excuses about having to install new computer lines, but
that hasn't stopped him from commenting on UFO Updates on
numerous occasions since my proposed joint statement.

 - Dick Hall


"You know my method: Keep good records, check the facts, and
always tell the truth." - Richard Hall






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   Sep > Sep 15

                Re: John Ford Redux (SDI 6 September, 2003) -

From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 16:16:34 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 18:31:28 -0400
Subject: Re: John Ford Redux (SDI 6 September, 2003) -


>From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com>
>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 10:42:04 -0700
>Subject: Re: John Ford Redux (SDI 6 September, 2003)

>>From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 09:36:05 -0500
>>Subject: Re: John Ford Redux (SDI 6 September, 2003)

>>>From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com>
>>>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>>Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 22:34:48 -0700
>>>Subject: Re: John Ford Redux (SDI 6 September, 2003)

><snip>

>>>from which I gathered that the issue was the crash of an alien
>>>space craft near Moriches Bay, etc., etc., for which we found
>>>the evidence _decidedly_ spotty...

>>I gaze at you with incredulity plain on my face! That concern
>>was addressed at the beginning of this thread! That's not the
>>issue, as has already been pointed out, twice now I think...
>>what is the genesis of your reluctance to cop to the point here?
>>Is it me? Poets aren't serious enough for you? LOL! You shelter
>>yourself too much I think, and I say that unaware of what you
>>might have on _your_ mind.

>>John Ford, a non-criminal, had ufological convictions used
>>against him to facilitate the private agenda of a _known_
>>criminal who is having an easy time of it while Ford suffers
>>years of unending and extreme torment for investigating that
>>criminal... have you any comment on -that-?

>Not really, except to say that I know fleetingly little about
>it, and so won't comment on his legal problems. I do recall that
>Mr. Moseley had a bit to say about the whole thing, but I would
>have to brush up on my back Saucer Smears to render any further
>discussion meaningful, which strikes me as a bit of a paradox,
>and so let's drop it here.


Astonishing - I've told you our porch is on fire and you say
drop it because we don't have any weenies and marshmallows!
<LOL>!

Lehmberg@snowhill.com

Photo Album: http://www.alienview.net/AVAlbum.htm
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   Sep > Sep 15

                    Re: Last week (9/5) On SDI - Lehmberg

From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 16:11:14 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 18:38:11 -0400
Subject: Re: Last week (9/5) On SDI - Lehmberg


>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
>Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 13:20:50 -0400
>Subject: Re: Last week (9/5) On SDI

>>From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 10:05:00 -0500
>>Subject: Re: Last week (9/5) On SDI

>>>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
>>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
>>>Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 12:26:56 -0400
>>>Subject: Re: Last week (9/5) On SDI

>>>I manage to wrangle up an air traffic controller who is willing
>>>to testify in public, who also happens to be in touch with other
>>>pilots and air traffic personnel from other airports in Mexico,
>>>who are also willing to discuss a "UFO" problem they are
>>>encountering in their air space and not a single peep or a
>>>whimper from anyone on this List.

><snip>

>>>Sorry to clutter up the bandwidth here with solid witnesses and
>>>facts. You can all go back to whatever it is you do here. I
>>>promise not to take up any more of the Lists valuable time and
>>>bandwidth with this kind of distracting poop. Honestly, I
>>>question why I even bother sometimes.

>>>I'm married ya know. I can stay at home and be ignored!

>You responded:

>>I share your bogglement, John. I think the response to your
>>thread can be explained by the aggregate (and completely
>>unjustified) lack of respect many have for what happens south of
>>the border. I detest that, as you know. Far too many would write
>>Mexican reports off as hallucinations of third-worlders wearing
>>grass skirts and banana-leaf vests

>Yowza! In my original post I said: " Out of a combination of
>politics and prejudice Mexico (and anything that comes out of
>it) is too easily blown off and disregarded by many North
>Americans. That attitude cannot be allowed to prevail. Not if it
>interferes with the process of enlightening and informing the
>world about the reality of the UFO presence on our planet."

I missed that! Well - it's true as the nose on _some_ faces. We
Northerners still entertain a non-aware and reflexive bigotry
where we should show more respect, a lot more respect. It's one
of the reasons we have such a hard time with disclosure in
general is that we're so damned provincial with regard to the
larger reality suggested by our researches. I think a lot of
people _want_ to keep it safe and at arms length and look for
_any_ excuse to keep it in their experience base of back-looking
20th Century paradigms and *conventional* wisdoms...

>I said it because I firmly believe it is true.

>>... too many seem willing to miss the point with you, too.

>Because of my reason for being here I kind of expect that kind
>of a blow-off from some people. Not from everybody though.
>And especially from people who _know_ me.

Well - my experience is if you keep banging on it, it crumbles.
You wield the righteous hammer of Thor, dude (...Ooooops, sorry!
That detracts from my credibility! ...Mr. Velez! <g>.) Keep
banging! I intend to. LOL!

>That's what is happening here. Total block-out.

>>With regard to the response on the John Ford thread (I know what
>>you mean, I didn't take offense. You were quick with a
>>qualifier),

>I only referred to it because the Ford information was featured
>on the same SDI segment as the Mexico material. (by your
>esteemed self.) I was in shock that _nobody_ made a peep about
>what is important and _major_ testimony. Testimony from
>experienced pilots and air traffic personnel/professionals is as
>rock-solid as it gets. You'd 'think' that researchers especially
>would be all over this like ugly on an ape.
>
>But nooooo.

It's kind of like I've always said. It wouldn't _matter_- that
you showed up with a genuine transmogrifying warp overthruster,
still transmogrifying! It's too much reality for the peeps and
it's something that might actually _go_ somewhere... so let's be
cool on it... what a jaw dropper!

>Like deer caught in the sudden glare of headlights, everyone on
>this List is standing there frozen. No questions, no discussion,
>nothing. As if everyone collectively decided to let it all go by
>the boards because it is simply too much to deal with. I don't
>know.

Like we were all a bunch of little Dan Quayle clones or
something! Too much to deal with so cut its funding... <LOL>!

>I don't understand it though. I thought that providing
>_substantive_ information for consideration and debate was a
>'part of' what we do here. Guess I was wrong, eh!

Naw - but certainly too right, perhaps. It's OK with me. I like
right of _any_ intensity!

>>notice that it's only to poke fun, or demonstrate
>>that they're not grasping the point though you can bet if it was
>>_them_ in jail... they'd be hanging on every word.

>You've got that one right! For some... there is nothing like
>waking up in the morning and finding a gift of loose cigarettes
>on your pillow (from your amorous, 350 lb., convicted killer
>cell-mate) to help put one in touch with reality! ;)

Don't forget about the active herpes, oozing tattoos, and
halitosis!

>Maybe that's the kind of 'wake-up poke' a few folks need! <g>

I wouldn't wish it on anyone but a CSICOPian or a "Saucer Smear"
Supreme commander! <LOL>!

>Regards, CU out on the range...


Yeah -- I'm down downrange, HOT!

Lehmberg@snowhill.com

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              Re: Review: Socorro 'Saucer' In A Pentagon Pantry

From: James Oberg <jamesoberg@houston.rr.com>
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 16:45:49 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 18:42:30 -0400
Subject: Re: Review: Socorro 'Saucer' In A Pentagon Pantry


>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 20:44:47 +0000
>Subject: Re: Review: Socorro 'Saucer' In A Pentagon Pantry

<snip>

I should dig out my 1970's era notes taken when I was talking by
phone with Tom Sciacca about the claims of an admitted (by
Frankel) - then recanted - test proving extraterrestrial nature
of the sample.

Sciacca kept chuckling over what he portrayed as poor Frankel's
being harrassed by repeated telephone calls from Stanford, until
(according to Sciacca) Frankel just refused any further calls
and had them passed to his associate who told Stanford to stop
calling.

If I'd had to guess, I couldn't imagine any reason for Sciacca
to make up his version of the story, I was not some famous
investigator to be conned or duped. I kept a folder on this and
planned to do an OMNI column on it, but there were so many more
interesting stories, I never got around to it.


-- Jim Oberg






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   Sep > Sep 15

                     Re: Last week (9/5) On SDI - Ledger

From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 19:04:02 -0300
Fwd Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 18:46:28 -0400
Subject: Re: Last week (9/5) On SDI - Ledger


>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
>Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 13:56:41 -0400
>Subject: Re: Last week (9/5) On SDI

>>From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
>>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 11:05:52 -0400
>>Subject: Re: Last week (9/5) On SDI

>>>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
>>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
>>>Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 12:26:56 -0400
>>>Subject: Re: Last week (9/5) On SDI

>><snip>

>>>I 'thought' this was a "UFO" and related phenomena discussion
>>>List. It appears that for the esteemed members of this List,
>>>pilots and air traffic personnel do not fall into the category
>>>of 'credible witnesses' that are worthy of the least bit of
>>>consideration or discussion. Was I in the can when the focus of
>>>this List was changed? Does this kind of "proof" not count for
>>>anything? Not worthy of a look-see?

>>>Sorry to clutter up the bandwidth here with solid witnesses and
>>>facts. You can all go back to whatever it is you do here. I
>>>promise not to take up any more of the Lists valuable time and
>>>bandwidth with this kind of distracting poop. Honestly, I
>>>question why I even bother sometimes.

>>>I'm married ya know. I can stay at home and be ignored!

>>I find the information very interesting, but really don't know
>>anything about it, other than what I've read here. I know that
>>was a subject that was convered on Strange Days, and it's
>>available in the audio archive, but it would be far more
>>effective if the story was written up and posted to the List for
>>all to read and digest.
>
>Why do we also have to provide the List with a written
>transcript in addition to the _comprehensive_ report/sound file
>that EBK has created and posted to the Virtually Strange Network
>archive? We have provided a clear and easily accessed sound file
>of the whole interview. About the only ones who cannot take
>advantage of it are people who use web TV rather than a computer
>to access the Internet.

>That there isn't an additional 'written' transcript is a poor
>excuse for not taking the time to listen to the report or to
>comment on it. I tracked these people down, recruited them to
>appear in public on SDI and with EBK's help got them to testify
>on the air.

>On top of which, Errol spent several hours of his valuable time
>cleaning up, editing and posting a sound file so that everyone
>can can access the information and get it 'right from the horses
>mouth. I then posted to the List so that everyone here would
>know about it and be able to check it out for themselves. I
>honestly believe that both EBK and myself have 'gone the extra
>mile' to inform the public.

>If someone wants to take the time to write a transcript, fine. I
>don't have the time for myself it and besides, I think that not
>having a written transcript is a really lame excuse for the lack
>of List response anyway.

>If anybody is up to the task of transcribing the program for
>post to the List, contact Errol or myself and we'll do what we
>can to help. I doubt if it will change a thing in terms of List
>response, but I would enjoy being proven wrong. ;)

>>Have any of the pilots involved in these sightings filed their
>>information with NARCAP, which would at least protect them from
>>retribution and allow researchers access to their statements?
>>Again, this may have been done, but I've not seen it mentioned
>>here.

>I asked Don Ledger if pilots and air traffic personnel reports
>from Mexico fall within the purview of NARCAP. Don is a busy guy
>and he might have missed that one. So I'm not certain. I
>wouldn't think so though.

Hi Steve and John,

I _must_ have missed that one. I'm an affiliate of the American
NARCAP, a representative of this country. However for the sake
of making it easier for pilots to report and the organization to
access certain data, NARCAP thinks it best to leave this to
local representatives.

Hence NARCAP Canada.

The greatest database for pilot sightings, ATC and radar
operator experiences rests with NARCAP. They encourage each
member country to search out their own and then hope to have a
large database for future representations to the overall
aviation hierarchy.

So far, no one has been asked in Mexico, though other member
cuntries include, France, the UK, Italy, Chile and several
others.

>There is a 'U.S. NARCAP' (Dick Haines and Ted Roe) and a
>'Canadian NARCAP' (Don Ledger) but I've never heard of a
>'Mexican NARCAP' where professionals from South of the border
>can file reports and receive the kind of protections that you
>mentioned.

<snip>

>As you know... my interest in the subject is more than mere
>intellectual curiosity. This may be the wedge with officialdom
>that we've all been looking for. Air traffic safety is the way
>to go. Nothing else holds out the promise of response/results
>that this issue does.

This is Dick Haines brainchild and a brilliant one at that. I
said at the time that I couldn't figure out why no one thought
of it before.


Don Ledger







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   Sep > Sep 16

                 Paradigm Research Group Release - 09-15-03

From: Stephen Bassett <Disclosure2003@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 16:25:34 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 13:31:44 -0400
Subject: Paradigm Research Group Release - 09-15-03


PRG
Paradigm Research Group

Press Release
September 15, 2003

1st Annual Exopolitics Expo - the X-Conference
Hilton Washington, DC North/Gaithersburg
www.x-conference.com
April 16-18, 2004

Washington, DC - Paradigm Research Group is pleased to announce
it will bring together in the Washington area the most powerful
group of speakers ever assembled to focus on the governmental,
political and media aspects of 50+ years of extraterrestrial
related phenomena and state sponsored deception, disinformation
and denial. And to make things more interesting, it will hold
this conference in the middle of the 2004 presidential primary
season.

The 1st Annual Exopolitics Expo - the X-Conference - will be
held at the Hilton Washington DC North the weekend of April 16-
18, 2004.

Collectively, the X-Conference speakers hold enough knowledge of
government involvement with extraterrestrial related phenomena
and the imposed truth embargo to end the cover-up tomorrow.
  All it would take is for political leaders and journalists to
pay attention.

Conference producer, Stephen Bassett, stated, "Extensive effort
will be made to inform the political media as well as
congressional members and staff of this conference and the
opportunity it represents to obtain in a single weekend a basic
understanding of how and why the United States government
sequestered from the American people the full truth of an
extraterrestrial presence about the planet since at least the
mid-1940's."    He added, "This conference has been designed and
scheduled to be more than just an event, but to have impact on
the disclosure process itself.   That process, underway in
earnest since the end of the Cold War, leads to formal
acknowledgment by the United States government of
extraterrestiral beings engaging the planet."

Speakers will include Stephen Bassett, Dr. William Birnes, Grant
Cameron (Canada), Philip Corso, Jr., Paul Davids, Richard Dolan,
Stanton Friedman (Canada), Timothy Good (United Kingdom), Dr.
Steven Greer, Terry Hansen, Paola Harris (Italy), Richard
Hoagland, Dr. C.B. Scott Jones, Jim Marrs, Dr. Bruce Maccabee,
Nick Pope (United Kingdom), Dr. Michael Salla (Australia)....
topping out at approximately 20 speakers.

The schedule, which is subject to change, now includes:
Saturday/Sunday:  18-20 lectures, 13-15 workshops,  2-4 discussion panels
Friday/Saturday: documentary film showings
Friday: Speakers' Cocktail Party
Saturday Evening:  Banquet with Keynote Address
Sunday:  Special Evening Presentation

During the Saturday evening banquet, PRG awards for
"Journalistic Courage," "Political Courage," and "Lifetime
Achievement," among others will be presented.

The Hilton Washington DC North/Gaithersburg is a 3 Star, 3
Diamond hotel with unlimited free parking, metro access,
conference facilities for 1500, banquet facilities for 300+ and
is equidistant from all three major airports (Reagan, Dulles,
BWI).

Full conference information is available at:

www.x-conference.com

Paradigm Research Group was founded in 1996 to support the work
of research/activist organizations addressing the science and
politics of extraterrestrial related phenomena.

Contact:  Stephen Bassett
.             Executive Director

Paradigm Research Group
URL: www.paradigmclock.com
E-mail: ParadigmRG@aol.com
Phone: 202-431-2459
4938 Hampden Lane, #161
Bethesda, MD 20814








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   Sep > Sep 16

                Re: John Ford Redux (SDI 6 September, 2003) -

From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com>
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 15:53:05 -0700
Fwd Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 13:41:17 -0400
Subject: Re: John Ford Redux (SDI 6 September, 2003) -


>From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 16:16:34 -0500
>Subject: Re: John Ford Redux (SDI 6 September, 2003)

>>From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com>
>>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 10:42:04 -0700
>>Subject: Re: John Ford Redux (SDI 6 September, 2003)

>>>From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>>Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 09:36:05 -0500
>>>Subject: Re: John Ford Redux (SDI 6 September, 2003)

>>>>From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com>
>>>>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>>>Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 22:34:48 -0700
>>>>Subject: Re: John Ford Redux (SDI 6 September, 2003)

<snip>

>>>John Ford, a non-criminal, had ufological convictions used
>>>against him to facilitate the private agenda of a _known_
>>>criminal who is having an easy time of it while Ford suffers
>>>years of unending and extreme torment for investigating that
>>>criminal... have you any comment on -that-?

>>Not really, except to say that I know fleetingly little about
>>it, and so won't comment on his legal problems. I do recall that
>>Mr. Moseley had a bit to say about the whole thing, but I would
>>have to brush up on my back Saucer Smears to render any further
>>discussion meaningful, which strikes me as a bit of a paradox,
>>and so let's drop it here.

>Astonishing - I've told you our porch is on fire and you say
>drop it because we don't have any weenies and marshmallows!
><LOL>!

No, I'm saying drop it because the whole rest of the house is
falling into a sinkhole anyway.


==JJS==







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              Re: Review: Socorro 'Saucer' In A Pentagon Pantry

From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 23:02:40 +0000
Fwd Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 13:44:19 -0400
Subject: Re: Review: Socorro 'Saucer' In A Pentagon Pantry


>From: James Oberg <jamesoberg@houston.rr.com>
>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 16:45:49 -0500
>Subject: Re: Review: Socorro 'Saucer' In A Pentagon Pantry

>>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>>Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 20:44:47 +0000
>>Subject: Re: Review: Socorro 'Saucer' In A Pentagon Pantry

><snip>

>I should dig out my 1970's era notes taken when I was talking by
>phone with Tom Sciacca about the claims of an admitted (by
>Frankel) - then recanted - test proving extraterrestrial nature
>of the sample.

>Sciacca kept chuckling over what he portrayed as poor Frankel's
>being harrassed by repeated telephone calls from Stanford, until
>(according to Sciacca) Frankel just refused any further calls
>and had them passed to his associate who told Stanford to stop
>calling.

>If I'd had to guess, I couldn't imagine any reason for Sciacca
>to make up his version of the story, I was not some famous
>investigator to be conned or duped. I kept a folder on this and
>planned to do an OMNI column on it, but there were so many more
>interesting stories, I never got around to it.

Jim,

You and I are not often on the same side of a UFO-related issue,
but in this case I think it would be helpful for you to post
your contemporary notes whatever they show. Sciacca was the guy
who sent me the final analysis report, and I talked with him on
the phone.

Now, maybe I am as naive and stupid as Stanford credits me with
being, but I don't think so. I am not a scientist and (unlike
him) have never claimed to be. It is possible (however extremely
unlikely I consider it to be) that the wool was pulled over my
eyes. But if so, the burden of proof remains with Stanford,
whose track record does not exactly inspire confidence.

Frankel never suggested to me that he was leaning toward an
extraterrestrial interpretation, which I surely would remember
as an earth-shaking finding that would have been overwhelmingly
welcomed by me and my NICAP colleagues. Any insight you have to
offer will be welcome.


 - Dick







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                         Airdrie, Alberta - 09-15-03

From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO <hbccufo@telus.net>
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 15:34:12 -0700
Fwd Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 14:10:46 -0400
Subject: Airdrie, Alberta - 09-15-03


Airdrie, Alberta

Date: September 15, 2003
Time: 1:15 a.m.

A lady called me from Airdrie today asking if anyone had
contacted me over a sighting which took place on September 15,
2003 at 1:15 a.m. While the witness was on her way to Calgary
and 30 kilometers north of Airdrie she saw an object at a low
level and then it shot up into the sky very quickly, and came to
a complete stop.

At this point in our conversation she told me she had pulled her
car over to the side of the road, and so did approx: 10 other
vehicles to watch this amazing event. On the drivers side of the
road there were two cars and two freight liners which had pulled
over. Also in her rear view mirror she could see two other cars
doing the same.... and a couple more which were heading north
bound.

The witness was traveling on Highway #2 going south.

When the lady first saw the object her thoughts were that it was
an aircraft departing from an airport, but soon realized that in
this area there was no airport. Actually the lady said the
sighting would have been witnessed exactly 15 kilometers from
the small town of Crossfield. and the object would have been
traveling to the southwest. She thought it was odd that the
object was departing at such a strange degree, keeping in mind
that her first thoughts were of an aircraft. The object, when
traveling up into the sky, made a sharp climb and once it
arrived at a high altitude it came to a complete stop. It then
shot across the sky towards the northwest and stopped again. At
this point the lady pulled over to watch it. She said there was
only one light on the craft which she described as being very
lustrous as if one would look at a diamond. Also extremely
bright ! As she and many others watched, the object moved side
to side keeping at the same altitude and then it started to
flash. The lady said if she had to put a shape to the object, it
would have looked like a diamond.

She rolled down her window as she watched. She wanted to hear if
there was any sound coming from it. The lady also had turned her
vehicle off, but no sound could be heard. The witness went on to
say, there was not a sound in the area at all. Not knowing the
exact height the object was sitting at, she said the size of it
would have been larger than a tennis ball.  She was travelling
alone and became quite frightened so decided to continue on her
way. She left the area.

The witness did contact the RCMP to see if others had made a
report about the sighting but no one had come forwarded.

I have already contacted the Airdrie Echo newspaper in search of
any information they might have received. I also will be making
some calls and requesting information and help in trying to find
out what this object may have been.

Brian Vike, Director
HBCC UFO Research
Canadian Toll Free UFO Hotline 1 866 262 1989 - Free call.
Phone/Fax 1 250 845 2189
HBCC UFO Forum Board
http://216.147.50.102/HBCC-UFO/index.php
email: hbccufo@telus.net
Website: http://www3.telus.net/public/wilbur8/hbcc_ufo_research.htm






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              Re: Review: Socorro 'Saucer' In A Pentagon Pantry

From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 20:04:10 -0300
Fwd Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 14:14:29 -0400
Subject: Re: Review: Socorro 'Saucer' In A Pentagon Pantry


>From: James Oberg <jamesoberg@houston.rr.com>
>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 16:45:49 -0500
>Subject: Re: Review: Socorro 'Saucer' In A Pentagon Pantry

>>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>>Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 20:44:47 +0000
>>Subject: Re: Review: Socorro 'Saucer' In A Pentagon Pantry

><snip>

>I should dig out my 1970's era notes taken when I was talking by
>phone with Tom Sciacca about the claims of an admitted (by
>Frankel) - then recanted - test proving extraterrestrial nature
>of the sample.

>Sciacca kept chuckling over what he portrayed as poor Frankel's
>being harrassed by repeated telephone calls from Stanford, until
>(according to Sciacca) Frankel just refused any further calls
>and had them passed to his associate who told Stanford to stop
>calling.

>If I'd had to guess, I couldn't imagine any reason for Sciacca
>to make up his version of the story, I was not some famous
>investigator to be conned or duped. I kept a folder on this and
>planned to do an OMNI column on it, but there were so many more
>interesting stories, I never got around to it.



Hi Jim,

Now what you've just relayed just makes it worse. Why did he
recant? Why wouldn't Frankel return the calls, why did he pass
them to an associate? And what happened to the damn samples?

I'm not sure if I find this amusing or just more in a long line
of NASA bullshit.


Don Ledger







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                 CCCRN News: "Flying Tray" Photo Anomaly in

From: Paul Anderson <psa@cccrn.ca>
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 16:11:25 -0700
Fwd Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 14:16:40 -0400
Subject: CCCRN News: "Flying Tray" Photo Anomaly in



CCCRN NEWS
E-News from the Canadian Crop Circle Research Network

September 15, 2003

http://www.cccrn.ca

_____________________________


"FLYING TRAY" PHOTO ANOMALY IN WALLACETOWN FORMATION

A photo has been posted to the web site of an odd "object" above
the Wallacetown, Ontario formation, taken August 16, 2003 at
about 5:00 pm by Amy Copely with a regular 35mm camera, which
resembles a flying tray.....

Also, an initial field report, photos and diagram have been
added for the Boissevain, Manitoba formation. Other full reports
will be posted soon for the two Steelman, Saskatchewan
formations as well as the previously "confidential" formation,
at Griffin, Saskatchewan, which is being listed in the
Miscellaneous Circles archive as the characteristics of this
formation are significantly different from "standard" crop
formations, yet interesting and unique based on a CCCRN ground
study on August 31 and worthy of further study. This revises the
total of regular crop formations so far for this year to 16.

Further studies are also being done on the Abbotsford, British
Columbia formation, the second in cattle corn this year in that
province. As with the previous one at Agassiz, significant
anomalies have been found in this large geometric formation,
with a special combined CCCRN / BLT Research Team full report
pending.

A bug in the guestbook on the web site has also been fixed, as
entries were not showing up properly for the past while. If you
had signed the guestbook in the last couple months or so and
your entry did not show up, please resign when you have a
moment, thanks! The front page counter has also been reset
starting from September 1, as another bug erroneously reset the
count starting from 0 at that time and the count cannot be reset
to the previous number; visitor hits from May 1, 2003 (start of
the web site at the new domain) to August 31, 2003 were
approximately 22,400.

http://www.cccrn.ca

____________________________


CCCRN News is the e-news service of the Canadian Crop Circle
Research Network, providing e-mail updates with the latest news
and reports on the crop circle phenomenon in Canada, as well as
other information on CCCRN-related projects and events, sent
free to your e-mail

To subscribe or unsubscribe, send an e-mail with either
Subscribe CCCRN News or Unsubscribe CCCRN News in the subject
line to: cccrnnews@cccrn.ca

The Canadian Crop Circle Research Network is a non-profit
research organization which has been seriously investigating and
documenting the crop circle phenomenon and other possibly
related phenomena in Canada since 1995, creating a liason
between researchers, farmers, the public, media and scientists

c. CCCRN, 2003





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              Re: Review: Socorro 'Saucer' In A Pentagon Pantry

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 19:26:58 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 14:21:46 -0400
Subject: Re: Review: Socorro 'Saucer' In A Pentagon Pantry


>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
>To: ufoupdates@sympatico.ca
>Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 20:44:47 +0000
>Subject: Re: Review: Socorro 'Saucer' In A Pentagon Pantry

>>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker@earthlink.net>
>>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 14:00:24 -0400
>>Subject: Re: Review: Socorro 'Saucer' In A Pentagon Pantry

>>>From: Terry Groff <terry@terrygroff.com>
>>>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>>Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 11:11:10 -0500
>>>Subject: Re: Review: Socorro 'Saucer' In A Pentagon Pantry

>>>>From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com>
>>>>To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>>>>Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 20:39:48 -0700 (PDT)
>>>>Subject: Review: Socorro 'Saucer' In A Pentagon Pantry

>>>>Socorro "Saucer" In A Pentagon Pantry by Ray Stanford

>>>>review by Mac Tonnies

>>>>http://www.mactonnies.com/ufobooks.html

>><snip>

>>>>"Socorro 'Saucer'" is a superior piece of ufological sleuthing;
>>>>perhaps its most valuable contribution to the field is
>>>>Stanford's meticulous, scientifically informed analysis of the
>>>>landing site. The implications of the Socorro landing are
>>>>multiplex and Stanford does an admirable job of zeroing in on
>>>>the salient issues. After reading "Socorro 'Saucer'," there is
>>>>virtually no doubt in my mind that the Socorro incident was a
>>>>physically real event involving an apparent craft of
>>>>extraordinary manufacture. This is a fascinating, grounded
>>>>volume well worth seeking out.

>>And Terry Groff said:

>>>Here, Here

>>>Lonnie Zamora doesn't like to talk about the incident much
>>>anymore. When his daughter asked him about the event he handed
>>>her a copy "Socorro 'Saucer'" and told her "It's all in there".

>>>There has been an awful lot of "Stanford Bashing" on this list
>>>lately (and I do mean 'awful') attempting to portray him as
>>>some sort of 'space cadet' but if you were to read this book, I
>>>think you will get a grasp of what a scientific and level-headed
>>>approach to investigating an event can really be like.

>>Heartfelt thanks, Terry,

>>Your unsolicited comments are deeply appreciated.

>Here is my counter-review:

>Book Review: Socorro "Saucer" in a Pentagon Pantry, by Ray
>Stanford (Austin, TX: Blueapple Books, 1976).

<snip>


Hello Dick, Ray, All,

If I may be allowed a slightly off-topic 'rant-lette', please. ;)

Dick, you have been relentless in your criticism of Ray
(personally.) So what if he owns a crystal ball. And on the flip
side, if I have to read one more sugary "unsolicited"
testimonial in defense of Ray Sanford I'm going to toss my
cookies.

Gemmulmums, you are both 'long in the tooth', and I have long
suspected that you were both around to read the Lincoln
assassination headline on the first day of publication... where
is all the 'Life experience' you both have accumulated?

Watching two old farts like you and Ray going at it hammer and
tong in public sets a real bad example for the assembled kiddies
and the 'squares'. It isn't doing a whole heck of a lot for the
credibility and reputation of ufology either. All this stuff is
being recorded for posterity in the new 'Akashic Record' of
cyberspace! Think about the 'record' you are both leaving
behind.

Frankly, I enjoy hearing what both of you have to say. You
_both_ make a valuable contribution to the quality of the
material that is circulated on this List. (For the most part!)
That is, unless you are both turning that formidable energy you
have - on each other.

>"You know my method: Keep good records, check the facts, and
>always tell the truth." - Richard Hall

We know Dick. We _all_ know. It is why you are so revered and
respected. You have no need to 'prove' anything. The body of
work you have produced over a life-time has done that for you.
Enjoy playing the role of the experienced, sage, seemingly all-
knowing teacher for the rest of us. Like it or not, it _is_
'who' you are at this point in life

Most sincerely, a friend who has learned over time to love and
respect the hell out of you, Mr. Hall.

No response required.


John Velez










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                     Re: Reagan And The Aliens - Fleming

From: Lan Fleming <lfleming5@houston.rr.com>
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 18:50:00 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 14:25:05 -0400
Subject: Re: Reagan And The Aliens - Fleming


>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 18:46:25 -0500
>Subject: Re: Reagan And The Aliens - Clark

>You lose me with that last paragraph.

>Pelicanism is a real, lamentable social phenomenon, but it has
>no relevance to the Lou Cannon remarks I was citing. Cannon, who
>knows as much about Reagan as any living human (certainly more
>than you and I), would have had no reason not to mention the
>alleged UFO sighting if he'd thought it explained Reagan's
>remarks. Elsewhere in the book, Cannon deals with other
>heterodox beliefs about the paranormal, religious prophecy, et
>al., which Reagan held and which influenced his view of the
>world.

>The discussion of the role of SF films appears in the context of
>an examination of how other, non-SF films also measurably
>affected Reagan's thinking. I urge you to read what Cannon
>actually wrote before you start trying to read his mind.

The author may very well have some good insights into Reagan's
thinking, but it looks to me like it was he who might have been
trying to read Reagan's mind. Did Cannon come right out and
_ask_ Reagan what prompted his fascination with alien invasions?
Answers to direct questions are sometimes more illuminating than
indirect psychoanalysis.

While Mr. Cannon may know a lot about Reagan, I don't think he
necessarily knows very much about sci-fi from the '50s and '60s.
You quoted him as saying:

"In Hollywood he became an avid science-fiction fan," Cannon
writes, "absorbed with a favorite theme of the genre: the
invasion from outer space that prompts earthlings to put aside
nationalistic quarrels and band together against an alien
invader."

I've seen a lot of 50's era sci-fi movies, good and bad (mostly
bad), and I don't recall a single one where the theme was
earthlings putting aside their differences to fight a common ET
enemy. There may have been a few such movies, but it hardly was
a favorite theme. I remember some movies had scenes of panic in
the streets of various foreign cities, but it was usually the
U.S. military or a small group of American scientists who
defeated the bad guys from outer space. From what I've read,
people who've studied "the genre" think that the early sci-fi
movies tended to have strong undertones of Cold War paranoia --
 Americans banding together to fight a common alien foe, with
space aliens embodying the alien doctrine of Communism.
"Invasion of the Body Snatchers" is often cited as an example.
(Actually, I think that psychoanalysis is a little overwrought,
too. I think people just like to see scary movies and that's
what the movie industry tries to give them, regardless of the
political climate).

I'm not asserting that Reagan's UFO sighting was what led to his
fascination with alien invasions. But if it did occur, it very
likely had a profound impact on him, as it does on many UFO
witnesses. I don't see why it should be omitted in a discussion
of Reagan and his thoughts about aliens -- not that it surprises
me that it was omitted in a "serious" biography. Most serious
journalists just won't touch the subject.







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              Re: Review: Socorro 'Saucer' In A Pentagon Pantry

From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com>
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 16:50:19 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 14:26:59 -0400
Subject: Re: Review: Socorro 'Saucer' In A Pentagon Pantry


>From: James Oberg <jamesoberg@houston.rr.com>
>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 16:45:49 -0500
>Subject: Re: Review: Socorro 'Saucer' In A Pentagon Pantry

<snip>

>I should dig out my 1970's era notes taken when I was talking by
>phone with Tom Sciacca about the claims of an admitted (by
>Frankel) - then recanted - test proving extraterrestrial nature
>of the sample.

Not once in "Socorro 'Saucer'" does Stanford claim that the test
results "proved" an ET origin for the metal samples given to
Goddard.  He says, simply, that analysis revealed an unusual
zinc-iron alloy that would have ideal for landing gear (from
which the samples were assumed to have been scraped).

While this is intriguing, it's not "proof," and Stanford never
says it is.

=====
>Mac Tonnies (macbot@yahoo.com)

Explore MTVI @ http://www.mactonnies.com

Posthuman Blues: http://posthumanblues.blogspot.com (daily blog)







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                    Re: Reagan And The Aliens - Friedman

From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@rogers.com>
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 20:58:13 -0300
Fwd Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 14:28:51 -0400
Subject: Re: Reagan And The Aliens - Friedman


>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
>To: ufoupdates@sympatico.ca
>Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 19:23:00 +0000
>Subject: Re: Reagan And The Aliens

>>From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com>
>>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 06:42:28 -0700
>>Subject: Re: Reagan And The Aliens

>>>From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>>Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 16:28:14 -0700
>>>Subject: Re: Reagan And The Aliens

>>>>From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com>
>>>>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>>>Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 12:28:04 -0700
>>>>Subject: Re: Reagan And The Aliens

>>>>>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
>>>>>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>>>>Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 12:04:55 -0500
>>>>>Subject: Reagan And The Aliens

>>>>I remember those references, and I always took his meaning as,
>>>>"see, we would FIND a way to cooperate under those circumstances,
>>>>which means there IS a way for us to cooperate, so why wait for
>>>>an invasion, let's start now!" Made sense to me in that context,
>>>>and I saw no reason to jump to the conclusion that he knew
>>>>something we didn't.

>>>>But try to convince the conspiracists.....

>>>Why do so few people listen to such simple logic as yours? Maybe
>>>they drink insufficient beers.

>>There ain't enough beer in the world to catch up to my train of
>>thought. But Bombay Sapphire Martinis might be a quick way to
>>head me off at the crossing.....

>>Jim 'Three Olives' Speiser

>A man with excellent taste.
>
>- Dick "Two Olives Will Do" Hall


I should make note of the fact that nobody has mentioned that
Reagan made similar comments at the United Nations.. They are in
the transcript. Perhaps of greater importance, I spoke with the
pilot of his plane when Reagan was California Governor. I can't
recall his name now, but Don Berliner, very up on aviation
matters, immediately recognized the name. The pilot had 30,000
hours which is a very high number. He confirmed that the
sighting occurred and that the quotes in the National Enquirer
were accurate


Stan Friedman







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                     Re: Reagan And The Aliens - Fleming

From: Lan Fleming <lfleming5@houston.rr.com>
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 19:56:47 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 14:33:38 -0400
Subject: Re: Reagan And The Aliens - Fleming


>From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com>
>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 06:49:05 -0700
>Subject: Re: Reagan And The Aliens - Speiser

>As I recall, there was some question as to the authenticity of
>this anecdote. I remember Stan F. got into a row with Ron Jr. on
>a TV program, the latter insisting it never happened or he would
>have known about it. Has it ever been confirmed/cross-
>checked/documented/ whatever? (Not necessarily the incident
>itself, but Reagan's quote about it).

Well there seems to be some corroboration here:

http://www.presidentialufo.8m.com/reagan_ufo_story.htm

This web page states:

The second sighting occurred in 1974 while Reagan was still
Governor. One week after the sighting, Reagan related the story
to Norman C. Millar, then Washington Bureau chief for the Wall
Street Journal, later the editor of the Los Angeles Times.
Reagan told Millar:

"I was in a plane last week when I looked out the window and saw
this white light. It was zigzagging around. I went up to the
pilot and said, "Have you seen anything like that before?" He
was shocked and said, "Nope." And I said to him: "Let"s follow
it!"

"We followed it for several minutes. It was a bright white light.
We followed it to Bakersfield, and all of a sudden to our utter
amazement it went straight up into the heavens. When we got off
the plane, I told Nancy all about it."

The pilot of Governor Reagan plane was Bull Paynter, and he
backed up Reagan"s version of the incident with the UFO.

I was the pilot of the plane when we saw the UFO. Also, on board
were Governor Reagan and a couple of his security people. We
were flying a Cessna Citation. It was maybe nine or ten o"clock
at night. We were near Bakersfield when Governor Reagan and the
others called my attention to a big light flying a bit behind
the plane.

It appeared to be several hundred yards away. It was a fairly
steady light until it began to accelerate, then it appeared to
elongate. The light took off. It went up at a 45-degree angle -
 at a high rate of speed. Everyone on the plane was surprised.

Governor Reagan expressed amazement. I told the others I didn"t
know what it was. The UFO went from a normal cruise speed to a
fantastic speed instantly. If you give an airplane power it will
accelerate - but not like a hotrod, and that is what this was
like.

We didn't file a report on the object because for a long time
they considered you a nut if you saw a UFO.

Paynter added the UFO incident didn"t stop there. He stated that
he and Reagan had discussed their UFO sighting "from time to
time" in the years following the incident.

-- End quote.

So, the story reportedly comes from a named journalist with the
Wall Street Journal and is backed up by Reagan's pilot, also
named. Although the rense.com page seems to have mixed up the
pilot's comments with Reagan's, the story basically sounds legit
to me. But now I suppose we need confirmation that the
confirmation is true.  :)







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                  Re: Link To Alleged Chupacabras Footage -

From: Virgilio Sanchez-Ocejo <v.s.o@prodigy.net>
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 22:02:38 -0300
Fwd Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 14:41:49 -0400
Subject: Re: Link To Alleged Chupacabras Footage -


>From: Scott Corrales <lornis1@earthlink.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 13:53:18 -0400
>Subject: Link To Alleged Chupacabras Footage

>Researcher and contributor Gloria Coluchi has told me that this
>is the corrected link to the site, but that nothing much can be
>made out beyond a "blurry shadow".

>http://www.angelfire.com/fl/ufomiami/CalamaUFOCenter/VideoDS.html

>Please address any specific questions to Dr. Virgilio Sanchez at UFOMIAMI.


Hi all,

The correct link in English is:

http://www.geocities.com/ufomiami.geo/DIGITAL/Caught.html

You will see the original video and a closed up of the creature.
These are not the digital video used for the analysis.

The other link, in the e-mail above, is our Spanish web page.

Sincerely,

Dr. Virgilio Sanchez-Ocejo
Miami UFO Center







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                     Re: Last week (9/5) On SDI - Kaeser

From: Steve Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 21:05:08 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 14:51:42 -0400
Subject: Re: Last week (9/5) On SDI - Kaeser


>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
>Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 13:56:41 -0400
>Subject: Re: Last week (9/5) On SDI

>>From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
>>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 11:05:52 -0400
>>Subject: Re: Last week (9/5) On SDI

<snip>

>>I find the information very interesting, but really don't know
>>anything about it, other than what I've read here. I know that
>>was a subject that was convered on Strange Days, and it's
>>available in the audio archive, but it would be far more
>>effective if the story was written up and posted to the List for
>>all to read and digest.

>Why do we also have to provide the List with a written
>transcript in addition to the _comprehensive_ report/sound file
>that EBK has created and posted to the Virtually Strange Network
>archive? We have provided a clear and easily accessed sound file
>of the whole interview. About the only ones who cannot take
>advantage of it are people who use web TV rather than a computer
>to access the Internet.

>That there isn't an additional 'written' transcript is a poor
>excuse for not taking the time to listen to the report or to
>comment on it. I tracked these people down, recruited them to
>appear in public on SDI and with EBK's help got them to testify
>on the air.

I guess it' really a question of who you are trying to reach
with your information. As I said, I know of many researchers (as
well as those who are just interested in the subject) that don't
have speakers connected to their computer and wouldn't in a
million years think of trying to obtain an audio clip via the
Internet. As long as you don't care if you reach out to that
audience, then a written transcript isn't necessary.

I'm certainly not being critical, and understand all too well
the effort that you and Errol go through to put this type
programming together. I was the Operations Manager at three
radio outlets in the 70s and 80s and did radio news for about 10
years, so I'm familiar with audio production and presentation. I
also transcribed hundreds of pages of my audio material so that
it could be submitted to the wire services for their use. They
certainly weren't going to do it and I felt the information was
of interest to others across the country.

You asked why your announcement of this program hadn't resulted
in a lot of discussion. I would suggest that it was only heard
by a limited percentage of those on this list. That doesn't mean
it isn't important and shouldn't be discussed further, but I can
barely find the time to scan my email and respond from time to
time. Finding time to sit and listen to streaming audio, or
download a large file to play back on my computer at a later
time, is something that I find very difficult to do.

May I suggest that significant interviews and segments of
"Strange Days" should perhaps be made available on audio CD-ROMs
or Cassette tapes. If Errol is already going through a lot of
production to clean up the audio, then putting it into
presentation form wouldn't be all that difficult. At the Fund
we've sold raw conference presentations on CD, such as one
presentation by David Jacobs in Bethesda. While we didn't make a
lot of money it got the information out to those who could not
attend.

>There is a 'U.S. NARCAP' (Dick Haines and Ted Roe) and a
>'Canadian NARCAP' (Don Ledger) but I've never heard of a
>'Mexican NARCAP' where professionals from South of the border
>can file reports and receive the kind of protections that you
>mentioned.

>I'm not on speaking terms with Ted Roe at the moment because of
>differences about CFI and the Sci-Fi channel initiatives. Maybe
>you can contact him and ask him if Mexican cases are a part of
>the cases they catalog and investigate.

I was not aware that there were any nationalistic borders to
NARCAP, but I certainly could be wrong. As you know, I've been
working with Ted and others on several initiatives and I'd be
interested in his take on this as well.

>Regardless. I don't want this to end up collecting dust in a
>file cabinet or buried on someone's hard drive. I am not letting
>this one go. It's way too vital and important to the whole
>question of UFOs.

>As you know... my interest in the subject is more than mere
>intellectual curiosity. This may be the wedge with officialdom
>that we've all been looking for. Air traffic safety is the way
>to go. Nothing else holds out the promise of response/results
>that this issue does.

>If we want to pry open the doors... here's a huge crowbar!

Unfortunately, much of the information gathered in this genre
ends up in an archive and rarely sees the light of day again.
Even information on the Internet has a lifespan and can
disappear without notice, which includes both audio and written
material. I could go on about that issue, but that's a topic for
another day I think.

I trust that both you and Errol will keep up the struggle and
won't let the turkeys get you down.


Steve







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               CI: Exclusive: Mars Global Surveyor Photographs

From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com>
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 19:17:30 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 14:53:39 -0400
Subject: CI: Exclusive: Mars Global Surveyor Photographs


Cydonian Imperative
9-15-03

Exclusive: Mars Global Surveyor Photographs D&M
Pyramid
by Mac Tonnies

Illustrations and links:

http://www.mactonnies.com/cydonia.html (page 41)


In terms of controversy, the D&M Pyramid in Cydonia has at times
rivalled the Face as potential evidence of extraterrestrial
engineering. A new high-resolution image of the enormous
feature, taken by the Mars Global Surveyor's Mars Orbiter Camera
(MOC) may assist attempts to decipher what the D&M is and how it
came to be.

[image]

The best image to date of the mysterious D&M Pyramid.

Named after its co-discoverers, Vincent DiPietro and Gregory
Molenaar, the D&M Pyramid has always revealed a significant
degree of symmetry, prompting advocates of planetary SETI to
include it among a list of sites for future imaging
opportunities. When imaged by the Mars Odyssey's THEMIS camera
in 2002, researchers were surprised to note a "new" corner that
made the D&M appear more bisymmetrical that originally thought.
The discovery of the previously hidden corner forced speculative
reconstructions of the D&M's "floor plan" to "morph" into an
elongated "arrowhead," best seen in the animation below.

[image]

The D&M Pyramid as revealed by THEMIS. Animation courtesy New
Frontiers in Science.

The new MOC image suggests that the "new" corner is composed of
shallow, partly buried tier-like platforms, possibly sculpted by
wind. The sides of the D&M -- in particular the brightly
illuminated western facet -- reveal extensive erosion. The
northeast and southeast quadrants (assuming they were once
intact) are almost wholly ravaged, a finding consistent with
earlier observations. A radiating "spine" leads from the
pyramid's center to the so-called "bottomless pit" seen in the
Viking image. Upon closer inspection, the pit, thought by some
to be a tunnel entrance into the D&M's interior, appears less
architectural than accidental. It remains to be seen if this is
the result of geology or of partial structural collapse.

[image]

Enhancement showing possible rectangular "buttress" formations
at the corners of the D&M's southern facet.


It bears noting that the new image is actually a mosaic
incorporating data from multiple overpasses. This has the
unfortunate effect of masking tantalizing detail near the center
of the formation. It also obscures what appears to be a square-
 shaped "buttress" at the formation's base. This alleged
buttress is complimented by a more severely degraded feature on
the southwest corner, as seen in the THEMIS enhancement above.

[image]

Animated reconstruction of the D&M's primary angles based on
infrared data. Animation courtesy Donovan Colbert.

I think it is too early to chalk up the D&M's badly damaged
appearance to a purely natural origin. As with the City Pyramid
and the Face itself, there are indications of symmetry and
structure consistent with the "modified landform" hypothesis.
Since archaeologists are deprived ruins the size of the D&M on
Earth, it is difficult for us to recognize what, exactly, we are
looking at. The numerous correspondences and alignments in the
Cydonia region provide cicumstantial evidence favoring some
degree of intelligent design in the remote past; the D&M is thus
more properly viewed as a component in a much more challenging
evidential arena rather than as an isolated anomaly.

-end-







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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Sep > Sep 16

              Re: Review: Socorro 'Saucer' In A Pentagon Pantry

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker@earthlink.net>
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 23:31:03 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 15:06:50 -0400
Subject: Re: Review: Socorro 'Saucer' In A Pentagon Pantry


>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
>To: ufoupdates@sympatico.ca
>Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 20:44:47 +0000
>Subject: Re: Review: Socorro 'Saucer' In A Pentagon Pantry

>>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker@earthlink.net>
>>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 14:00:24 -0400
>>Subject: Re: Review: Socorro 'Saucer' In A Pentagon Pantry

>>>From: Terry Groff <terry@terrygroff.com>
>>>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>>Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 11:11:10 -0500
>>>Subject: Re: Review: Socorro 'Saucer' In A Pentagon Pantry

>>>>From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com>
>>>>To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>>>>Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 20:39:48 -0700 (PDT)
>>>>Subject: Review: Socorro 'Saucer' In A Pentagon Pantry

>>>>Socorro "Saucer" In A Pentagon Pantry by Ray Stanford

>>>>review by Mac Tonnies

>>>>http://www.mactonnies.com/ufobooks.html

>><snip>

>>>>"Socorro 'Saucer'" is a superior piece of ufological sleuthing;
>>>>perhaps its most valuable contribution to the field is
>>>>Stanford's meticulous, scientifically informed analysis of the
>>>>landing site. The implications of the Socorro landing are
>>>>multiplex and Stanford does an admirable job of zeroing in on
>>>>the salient issues. After reading "Socorro 'Saucer'," there is
>>>>virtually no doubt in my mind that the Socorro incident was a
>>>>physically real event involving an apparent craft of
>>>>extraordinary manufacture. This is a fascinating, grounded
>>>>volume well worth seeking out.

>>And Terry Groff said:

>>>Here, Here

>>>Lonnie Zamora doesn't like to talk about the incident much
>>>anymore. When his daughter asked him about the event he handed
>>>her a copy "Socorro 'Saucer'" and told her "It's all in there".

>>>There has been an awful lot of "Stanford Bashing" on this list
>>>lately (and I do mean 'awful') attempting to portray him as
>>>some sort of 'space cadet' but if you were to read this book, I
>>>think you will get a grasp of what a scientific and level-headed
>>>approach to investigating an event can really be like.

>>Heartfelt thanks, Terry,

>>Your unsolicited comments are deeply appreciated.

>Here is my counter-review:

>Book Review: Socorro "Saucer" in a Pentagon Pantry, by Ray
>Stanford (Austin, TX: Blueapple Books, 1976).

>When Stanford's book was first published 12 years after the
>Socorro case occurred, I was astonished at his claims and
>wondered why he had said nothing in all those years if he
>believed I was involved even indirectly in a cover-up. Why did
>he wait 12 years (six years after I left NICAP) to make an issue
>of my handling of the Socorro case? For all I knew until 1976,
>Stanford reluctantly accepted the NASA analysis report despite
>his obvious desire at the time to believe that he had conclusive
>physical proof.

That's not true, because, Dick, you surely know (unless you're
losing your memory) that I told you right away about Dr. P. E.
Smith's telling me that it was impossible to mistake the X-ray
diffraction pattern of a silicate for that of a Zinc-iron alloy,
that I was (after Smith's comments) convinced a cover-up had
gone on. I even challenged you to consult such as expert for
yourself.

So List readers, please note that Hall has never reported asking
any such expert, either because he had a made-up mind or else
because he consulted such an expert and was told just what I was
told by Smith, Hynek, and a host of others.

As to the book not coming out until 1976, its just that I had
much more going in my life than writing a UFO book, and in order
to be careful and thorough, it just took me that long to get it
ready. I am not accountable to Dick Hall for when I say
something or what for what I say, even though he seems to imply
that I should be.

>When Stanford first phoned me on June 20, 1975, he talked about
>a book he was writing on the Socorro case. He did not tell me
>that the book was going to be highly critical of me and my role
>in the case and reach conclusions that contradicted those of
>NICAP.

The book was not highly critical of Hall, just factual.
Furthermore, contrary to what Dick seems to want to believe, I
am not accountable to tell him everything I'm going to publish
before doing so. Just how important does this joker think he
is?!

>Nor, obviously, did he give me any opportunity to comment
>on the allegations that would be made before publishing them.

I had the comments of unbiased scientific analysts, so why
should I ask Hall again, since I knew his position, and his
education is in philosophy, not analytical science? I had
listened to plenty of his self-defending comments, right after
the cover-up was issued by Thomas P. Sciacca of the Space
Materials Division at Goddard.

>In fact, during this conversation I told him about a new report of
>"fused sand" found at the site, discovered by Stanton Friedman
>and investigated by Dr. James McDonald. He used this information
>in the book without crediting it to me.

Why should I credit Dick, since I had heard that report before I
ever talked to him, from a source requesting confidence?

>I suppose that to credit
>it to me would have tended to contradict his thesis (unknown to
>me at the time) that I was a simpleton and/or a Government dupe.

That is ridiculous, rather paranoid sounding, self-serving
drivel. This List deserves better, Dick!

>Stanford even gets the date of the visit to NASA-Goddard wrong.
>As verified by entries in Walt Webb's diary, we met with Ray on
>July 23, 1964, and went to NASA-Goddard on July 24, 1964, not
>July 31.

I prefer my own notes, but even if Hall is right about the date,
it may be simply a misreading of the calendar on my part, not
one involving the basic issue, which he has always tried to
dance around.

>Stanford claims that I was told by Dr. Frankel at Goddard that
>the preliminary analysis pointed toward an extraterrestrial
>source, which of course when I denied it would make me out to be
>either stupid or part of a cover-up. I absolutely deny being
>told that, and can only attribute it to Stanford's will to
>believe and or penchant for self-deception. Furthermore, at that
>time no quantitative analyses had been conducted so that any
>such suggestion is idiotic.

When Dr. Frankel made his telephone call to me reporting the
zinc-iron alloy finding (and saying that there were only tiny
traces of other elements), and commenting that the finding might
lend itself to the extra-terrestrial interpretation because the
alloy was not listed on their charts of alloys produced world-
wide, he told me he had already called Hall and told him the
same thing. (See page 139, Socorro Saucer Saucer in A Pentagon
Pantry.) I prefer Dr. Frankel's statement over Hall's. Of course
I only have Frankel's word to me of what he told Hall, but since
Hall has no recording of the conversation, I will take Frankel's
word for it.

>On p. 116, Stanford quite falsely attributes to me the decision
>to go to NASA-Goddard for the analysis. The record of our
>correspondence shows very clearly that the decision was his.
>Several options were open to him, and I repeatedly asked which
>he preferred. One was the Smithsonian Laboratories in Cambridge,
>Mass., where Walt Webb was astronomy lecturer at the Charles
>Hayden Planetarium and would be able to personally supervise the
>analysis. Stanford also had an alternate possibility in Phoenix,
>Ariz., and I suggested to him in a letter that if he felt it
>would be competent and a public report made available, "that
>would probably be the best arrangement." So, no one twisted
>Stanford's arm or insisted that NASA-Goddard was the place to
>go, contrary to his depiction of events.

Of course no one twisted my arm! I've never even suggested that.
Dick is again trying to put words into my mouth. I chose Hall's
suggestion of Goddard because I felt the results might carry
more weight, if coming from an important person at NASA Goddard.
I've never blamed Dick for that decision, but I blame him for
'buying' the cover-up and for never (judging from the absence of
any report from him about that) getting a second, third, or even
sixth opinion about whether such a mistake was possible by an
expert in X-ray diffraction.

Come on Dick. Don't you think that after 39 years of whimpering
about my position on this, you should make the kind of inquiry I
immediately made or stop complaining once and for all? Your
silence on that is telling. Very telling.

>Unfortunately, there are numerous other gross distortions in the
>book, and some outright false statements. Although he does a
>good job of reporting the basic facts of the case (with one or
>two red herring exceptions), his version of what went on at
>NICAP and what happened at NASA-Goddard is purely imaginary,
>apparently a result of the systematic self-delusion (i.e., self-
>deception, fooling oneself into believing something is true when
>it isn't) that he has fallen victim too for most of his life.

Let's not forget that Robert McGarey was with me during all
this, and was standing right beside me when Frankel told me the
exciting result of the analysis. He saw me jump up and down and
shout for joy at Frankel's words, and he has not forgotten it.
He was also with me when I talked to Dr. P.E. Smith for a second
opinion. So, Dick it is not just my word against yours. Do you,
likewise, want to call Robert McGarey deluded or a liar? You are
the one who seems to have been 'taken in', and I prefer to
believe that than to believe you were a co-conspirator.

>(See his strong pattern of believing he was in touch with space
>beings, channeling accurate information from real beings,
>communicating with Brothers., etc., all initially believed and
>then --according to him--later disowned.)

Talk about trying to put words into my mouth and beliefs into my
mind that I haven't held since age 19! I will deal with the
matter of my view of my years as a research psychic in the
letter I am preparing in response to Loren Coleman's attack on
me. Suffice it to say here that in every public forum (and
private ones) I always stated that the 'independent
personalities' that sometimes 'spoke through' me were very
possibly simply masquerated by my own unconscious to add spice
to the message. Dick has read my 1974 interview in psychic and
knows I even said that there, so he likewise knows it is false
to say, as he just said, "See his strong pattern of believing he
was in touch with space beings, channeling accurate information
from real beings, communicating with Brothers., etc." And
clearly, absolutely, I never ever claimed to be channeling space
beings! Barf!!! Others might have believed that such was
happening through me on rare occassions, but I always made it
clear that I thought them wrong.

Furthermore, that was long ago and far away. In Dick's 'book'
psychic seems to be a bad word. Not all psychics are dishonest.
Hugh Lynn Cayce, son of the late psychic Edgar Cayce, once had
me come to Virginia Beach for some test readings to see whether
I was a good and honest psychic. The result, told more than once
by Hugh Lynn to Dr. William D. Gaston, Jr. (presently living in
Arizona), was that, "Ray Stanford has the most honest
unconscious I have ever dealt with!" Interpret that as you like.

But, now, List friends, I'm still waiting for Dick to tell us
that he sought a second, outside, opinion on the claimed
analysis error. He avoids that issue, which is far easier to
respond to than to dig up my notes after all these years that he
complained I never showed him, as if I owed him such a favor.

<snip>

>Over a week ago I asked him to join me in a
>statement on UFO Updates which would amount to a truce. We would
>jointly recommend that everyone read his book and then my
>rebuttal of it and make up their own minds. He replied that he
>would have to think about it, and has said nothing more. He did
>make excuses about having to install new computer lines, but
>that hasn't stopped him from commenting on UFO Updates on
>numerous occasions since my proposed joint statement.

When I called Dick's deception or distortion of fact in claiming
to have seen 'physics notebooks' at my place (all he saw were a
few photos in plastic sleeves) and his false claim that I had no
documentation of Hynek's support of my statement by him in the
book that the silica-zinc-iron 'mistake' could not have been
made, he suggested a cease fire! Since in every case he was the
aggressor who fired first, it looked a bit like a desperate
request made because he knew I was winning.

For an aggressor to beg a cease fire looks a lot like
desperation. I refuse to let Hall talk me into what amounts to a
gag order. I reserve my right to respond to the comments of
anyone who addresses matters related to me or my knowledge, on
this List or anywhere, if permitted.

But, if Dick Hall really wants a cease fire between us
personally, all he needs do to get it from me is to cease firing
at me every time someone praises by writings or my research into
UFOs, as he did today.

Who asked for Hall's opinions on me today when Mac Tonnies and
Terry Groff praised my Socorro book and Chris Lambright
commented on my personal friendship and integrity? I didn't
notice that any one of them addressed Hall personally.

It's that simple, Dick, cease the unprovoked attacks! Quit
crying like a baby every time someone praises my book on
Socorro. Some persons have written me saying, in effect,
"Methinks he protests too much!"  As an old friend in other
ufological matters, I advise you show your better face, the one
most of us can admire for good work over many years. Let us
simply agree to differ on this, without hostilities.

I think we both have better things to worry about and to
contribute to this List. If you want a cease fire, just quit
firing at me. It's really that simple, Dick. I have better
things to do with my life, and I suspect you do, too.

Ray Stanford

"Leave no stone unturned..." :) -- Sherlock Holmes







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   Sep > Sep 16

                             Webmasters Beware!

From: Larry Hatch <larry@LARRYHATCH.NET>
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 21:53:15 -0700
Fwd Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 15:10:45 -0400
Subject: Webmasters Beware!


If you have a domain name registered anywhere, be absolutely
sure to check your Expiration Date! Contact your domain
registrar (Network Solutions etc..) and make sure this is
crystal clear. I recommend automatic renewal via credit card. Be
sure your Registrar has your latest CCard expiration date too!

The case of www.isur.com should be a stark lesson for all.

ISUR ( International Society for UFO Research ) was founded by
John Thompson, Mark Ausmus, Jim Clifford, Ralph Howard Jr.,
Michael Norris, and C. Leigh Culver. Tom Sheets, a former police
chief in Georgia, was their contact point for the public. He
described ISUR as the "swat team of Ufology" They would
investigate sightings while the trail was still hot, or refer
distant cases to others who could do likewise. Lots of ufo
websites linked to ISUR for those reasons.

Through some oversight, the ISUR.COM domain name expired with
their registrar! With lots of links and good Search Engine
ratings, isur.com was 'hot-property'. As soon as the
registration lapsed, somebody scooped it up.

Go ahead now and click on http://www.isur.com

Do you see anything about UFOs? Its just a dummy page.

WEBFILE.com 'parks' domains, its like a dog pound for URLs. I
found loads of impounded domains, everything from audiotrack.com
to webconfetti.com .. autoinfo to targetfish!

Do not become a targetfish. http://targetfish.com

Looks just like isur.com, doesn't it! No wildlife there.

Did Webfile steal the isur domain? No, they just "parked' it.
The dummy page prevents 404 errors from spoiling links and
ratings.

Doing a 'WHOIS' search for isur.com reveals this:

Registrant: Vertical Axis, Inc
    P.O. Box Central, HK
Registrar..: IARegistry.com
    (http://www.iaregistry.com)
Created on: 10-Jan-2001
Expires on: 10-Jan-2004

Got that? VERTICALAXIS.COM with a post office box
in Hong Kong.

I typed in http://www.verticalaxis.com

and found a completely blank page.

A Google search for "verticalaxis" reveals a shadowy outfit.
Here is a verticalaxis discussion page from Webmasterworld.com
..

http://www.webmasterworld.com/forum25/947.htm

It looks like VA wanted $8000 (US, not HK dollars) for somebody
else's generic xxx.net address.

Am I confusing you? Its really simple.

You go to the trouble to put up a website, gain a reputation,
good links, provide content, establish a group, do some useful
work.

You let your domain name lapse and somebody in Hong Kong snags
it. They hold it for thousands of dollars in ransom. You do the
work, they take the money.

Meanwhile, your loyal visitors get sent to a meaningless page in
URL-jail without a word of explanation.

What to do? If you have a registered domain name:

Be _sure_ your registrar has your valid and current email
address to warn you. Some cheesy registrars may not even do
that..

Visit all links you have to other sites. See that they go to the
rightful intended pages.

Don't rely on Link Checker utilities! They will _not_ find
parked sites because those don't give 404 (page not found)
errors. Bogus dummy pages are technically alive.

If you find any 'webfile' type parked sites, ISUR for example,
remove the link. All you are doing is driving up the ransom in
Hong Kong.

Sorry for the rant. This really steams me.


Best wishes

- Larry Hatch


Tom: Thanks for the further details.






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   Sep > Sep 16

                     Re: Last Week On SDI - 9/5 - McCoy

From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy@charter.net>
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 22:14:46 -0700
Fwd Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 15:15:08 -0400
Subject: Re: Last Week On SDI - 9/5 - McCoy


Hello, All, John, Alfred, Don ,Steve,et,al.

I've been away tending to my Mother who was in the Hospital. She
is okay, and I'm back - I hope and pray I'm 1/2 that good at 85,
but, that is another story. I've been on the road for a solid
week, and I am in a bad mood. However.

I didn't bother doing a reply as such, I wanted to say the
following:

1. I agree that the UFO communty kind of poo-poohs the goings on
South of the Rio Grande' - to me it is only proof that something
is going on.

2. It is supremely hard to get Pilots and Controllers to tell
what they see. Job security is a factor here, this is why NARCAP
is important.

3. We have a problem in the fact that we do have a high Bozo
factor in Ufology. The unfortunate thing is sometimes the Bozos
may have something valuable. Kind of like a Chimpanzee playing
with a Diamond necklace.


Thanks,

GT McCoy

Too tired to go any further.








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   Sep > Sep 16

                      San Luis Valley Event Log On-line

From: Christopher O'Brien <cob@tmv.us>
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 08:19:27 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 15:30:33 -0400
Subject: San Luis Valley Event Log On-line


Greetings all:

As some of you are aware, since 1992 I have been investigating
and researching claims of anomalous events and suspected
military activity in the greater San Luis Valley in South-
 Central Colorado and North-Central New Mexico. This geographic
area includes all (or portions of) the Colorado counties of
Saguache, Alamosa, Conejos, Costilla, Rio Grande, Huerfano,
Custer, Chaffee, Fremont and the New Mexico Counties: Taos, Rio
Arribas, Mora, Colfax. The central portion of this region is
located above 7,000 feet, is ringed completely by mountains and
is radar-invisible below 18,000 feet. This work has resulted in
a 123-page, 42K-word Event Log documenting reports from this
remote, hidden area of the country that has experienced an
impressive amount of unusual activity over the years.

Over the years I have attempted to inform anyone who is
interested in this activity by posting updates on CNI News, UFO
Roundup and Filer's Files and I have decided to make this data
available on the Internet for review and comment.

John Hayes webmaster @ UFOInfo has kindly archived this Event
Log complete w/ photos at:

http://www.ufoinfo.com/news/sanluisvalleylog.shtml

The Greater San Luis Valley Event Log contains Reported
Unidentified Flying Object (UFO) Sightings, Abduction claims,
Unusual Animal Death reports (UADs), Unexplained Occurrences and
Suspected Military activity and lists Date, Time, Location,
County, Vallee' Classification, Type of Report,
(Investigator(s), Type of EVIDENCE and photographs (when
available), media coverage) SAME DAY/NIGHT correlation.
Suspected Unexplained phenomena, UFO sighting dates / times and
UAD discovery dates in BOLD Suspected military activity in
ITALICS. Other regional reports are also listed when concurrent
to SLV activity. Editorial Selections and SAME DAY cases
highlighted as potential KEY CASES.  I have snipped witnesses
last names unless they are already found in the public domain

Pre-1992 cases were compiled through various area media sources
and with the help of Colorado investigator David Perkins' case
files and Texas researcher Tom Adams' book The Choppers and The
Choppers. Post 1992 reports (except where noted) include cases I
have personally investigated or cases that were investigated by
other competent investigative associates and law enforcement.
Second-hand reports and/or rumors, reports without dates were
not included except in media source cases or where otherwise
noted.

I welcome your comments and review and urge others who have
compiled similar data logs to make them available to the public.


Christopher O'Brien





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   Sep > Sep 16

         UK UFO Magazine's Graham Birdsall Suffers Brain Hemorrhage

From: A. J. Gevaerd - Revista UFO <gevaerd@ufo.com.br>
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 10:54:55 -0300
Fwd Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 15:35:56 -0400
Subject: UK UFO Magazine's Graham Birdsall Suffers Brain Hemorrhage


Dear Friends & Colleagues:

I was informed by Russel Callaghan that last Thursday night
Graham Birdsall was taken ill at home. It was thought that he
had suffered a heart attack. He was rushed to hospital were
doctors carried out tests.

Graham had not had a heart attack but was suffering from a brain
hemorrhage. He was transferred to a special neuro-intensive care
unit in Leeds where he has undergone two operations, one to
insert a drain and one to asses the damage caused by the
hemorrhage. He had to be kept on life support over the last few
days.

He had the ventilator removed and was yesterday breathing for
himself. Russel told me that Graham opened his eyes and said a
few words yesterday and throughout his ordeal as been able to
move hands and legs.

Today, Tuesday, Graham's surgeons are going to carry out a
clamping procedure on the damaged artery. There are some risks
involved but a team of three neuro-surgeons will carry out the
operation which should take between 2-4 hours, after this the
recovery period in hospital should be between 1 and 2 months.

His family is giving him every support he needs to make a full
recovery. His wife Christine and his daughters have been
sleeping at the hospital since Thursday.

Because of this terrible situation, the cancellation of the 22nd
International UFO Conference and Gala Dinner is to be announced
by Russel at any time.

It is absolutely terrifying to see a great person such as Graham
Birdsall in such illness. But let's hope and pray for his
recovery soon. He is an icon for the world UFO community and a
great developer of this field.

Let's join Graham Birdsall's family in prayers for his quick
recovery.


A. J. Gevaerd







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   Sep > Sep 16

                 Re: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 8 Number 35 - Hayes

From: John Hayes <webmaster@ufoinfo.com>
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 16:50:37 +0100
Fwd Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 16:29:44 -0400
Subject: Re: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 8 Number 35 - Hayes

Posted on behalf of Joseph Trainor.

<Masinaigan@aol.com>
==========================

      UFO ROUNDUP
Volume 8, Number 35
September 17, 2003
Editor: Joseph Trainor

E-mail: <Masinaigan@aol.com>
Website: http://www.ufoinfo.com/roundup/


TWO LUMINOUS UFOs SEEN
IN NORTHERN IRAN

      On Wednesday, August 20, 2003, at 1:45 p.m., Hooman
Halehbi and his cousin "were driving along the" south
shore of the Caspian Sea "from the small beach resort city
of Chalus to Shahsavar" in Iran when he spotted something
unusual in the sky.
      "Between Chalus and Shahsavar, close to Nashtarud, a
village on the west side of the road, south of the Caspian
Sea, I saw two strong separate white lights about 300
meters (1,000 feet) up in the air," Hooman reported, "They
moved very slow from left to right (and) up and down.
They were 2 kilometers (1.2 miles) away from us.  The
lighted shapes were oval, and they were an estimated 5 to
10 meters (16 to 33 feet) long.  And, for some seconds,
their light beams were blue and yellow."
      "I cannot compare these strange, beautiful lights
with anything else," he added, "I told my cousin to stop
the car, but, because of the heavy traffic, he could not
stop.  I kept looking at them for some 20 seconds, but,
because of the tall trees by the side of the road, I could
no longer see them after one minute."
      Chalus is located on the Caspian Sea's south shore
approximately 200 kilometers (120 miles) north of Tehran,
the capital of Iran.  (Many thanks to Ayesha al-Khatabi
for this report.)


UFO SIGHTED IN DURBAN,
SOUTH AFRICA

      On Sunday, September 7, 2003, at 5:15 a.m., Simon
Walthew was outdoors, watching the sunrise, when he
spotted a strange brilliant object in the sky over Durban,
South Africa.
      "It was just before dawn, and a friend and myself
were getting ready to go fishing," Simon reported, "I was
outside, gazing up at the sky, which was beautiful.  An
object caught my eye, small, almost like a satellite.
This object grew 20 to 30 times its (original) size and
shone brighter than the sun, changing colour and shape."
      "Within a millisecond, the size of the object reduced
to a small orange speck and shot off at an incredible
speed."
      "During the time of its size increasing, the object
was stationary.  Its size grew to an estimated three times
that of the brightest star you can usually see in the
sky."  (Sirius--J.T.)
      "After speeding off in a southerly direction" over
the Indian Ocean, "the object disappeared but not over the
horizon, just lights out."
      "It seemed as high as a commercial jet and left at an
incredible speed, anything from 2,000 to 10,000 kilometers
per hour. (1,200 to 6,000 miles per hour--J.T.)"
      Durban is a port city on the Indian Ocean located
about 300 kilometers (180 miles) south-southeast of
Pretoria, South Africa's capital.  (Email Form Report)


SILVER, CIGAR-SHAPED UFO
SIGHTED IN LANCASHIRE

      "Burnley cabbie Mr. Steve Haworth and a passenger
watched a mysterious flying object suddenly appear,
perform a series of mind-boggling manoeuvres and then
simply disappear without trace early on Saturday morning,"
September 6, 2003.
      "'I thought it was an aircraft at first,' said Mr.
Haworth of Burton Street, 'Then, when I weighed up all the
pros and cons, I decided it couldn't possibly be.'"
      "The part-time taxi driver was taking a customer from
his Hufling Lane home to work in Waterfoot.  They were
travelling along Bacup Road when they turned a corner and
first saw the object in the sky.  It was only 7:45 in the
morning, but there wasn't a cloud in the sky."
      "'It was beautiful and clear,' he said, 'I
immediately thought the object was a plane, but it wasn't
small; it wasn't high up; and it was moving slowly.'"
      "The silver, cigar-shaped object with a small
pulsating light in the middle stopped and hovered.  Then
it changed shape as it started going forwards and
backwards in a perfectly straight line.  It did this twice
before vanishing into thin air."
      "'There was no noise and no vapour trail,' added Mr.
Haworth, 'If it had been an aircraft, we would have heard
it from where we were.  It did not take-off.  It just
simply disappeared.'"
      "This is not the first time an unidentified flying
object has been spotted in the sky above Burnley.
Sightings date back to 1869 and have been reported at
regular intervals through the decades since."
      "Descriptions have varied from a round, glowing disc
to a line of bright lights to a pulsating cigar-shaped
object like Mr. Haworth described."
      "He added, 'The whole experience only lasted three
minutes.  I remember looking at the clock in the car.  It
was 7:45 a.m. and, by the time the object had disappeared,
it was 7:48 a.m.  I'm so glad I had someone with me who
saw what I did.  Otherwise, I would have been doubting my
sanity.  I'm just curious to know what it was.'"
      Burnley is in Lancashire, located about 25 miles (40
kilometers) due north of Manchester.  (See The Express of
Lancashire for September 5, 2003.  Many thanks to Jim
Hickman for forwarding this newspaper article.)


BELL-SHAPED UFO SEEN
IN EASTERN AUSTRALIA

      On Wednesday, September 3, 2003, at about 12 noon,
"whilst stopped at a traffic light at the intersection of
Marine Parade and Gold Coast Highway, Labrador," in
eastern Australia, Gary Opit reported, "and looking out of
my open driver's side window at the Broadwater (Pacific
Ocean--J.T.) on a cloudless day, with no cars passing, my
eyes were attracted to a bright light a couple of hundred
metres away and about 50 metres above the water."
      "It looked like the sun was reflecting off of a solid
object such as a hovering aircraft, which at first I
thought must be a helicopter.  As I gazed at the object,
which was stationary, I realised that it was identical to
the (bell-shaped) 'scoutship' photographed by (ufologist)
George Adamski on 13 December 1952.  It was domed on top
with a flanging bell-shaped base."
      "I thought it was probably just an outline of the sun
shining off the side of a helicopter, when it suddenly
vanished."
      "I expected to see the dark shape of an aircraft,
such as a helicopter, hovering over the water.  I watched
it for a while, but nothing reappeared."  (Many thanks to
John Hayes and Diane Harrison of the Australian UFO
Research Network for this report.)


BLUE-WHITE MYSTERY LIGHT
FLIES OVER CALIFORNIA

      "Bright flashes in the California sky Thursday
evening," September 4, 2003, "were likely a small meteor
or debris from space burning up in Earth's atmosphere,
authorities said."
      The mysterious display "made for a spectacular light-
show, said Sheryl Tankersley, a spokeswoman for the state
Office of Emergency Services."
      "Bluish white lights reportedly moving from west to
northeast were seen at 8:24 p.m. in Palm Springs and as
far north as Napa (population 72,985)," located about 50
miles (80 kilometers) northeast of San Francisco.
      The lights were also seen in Amador and Merced
counties, OES reported.
      "A brief North American Aerospace Defense Command
(NORAD) investigation concluded that the lights were a
small asteroid or space debris.  Vandenberg Air Force Base
reported that it had not tested missiles or made any other
launch on Thursday night."
      Two nights later, on Saturday, September 6, 2003, the
mysterious lights were seen again.  Ufologist David
Edwards reported, "Saw a fireball last night at 8:35 p.m.
Direction of travel south-southeast to north-northwest.
Duration of five seconds, vanishing just before reaching
(the stars) Alcor and Mizar in the Dipper (constellation
Ursa Major--J.T.).  Bright but not as bright as the half-
moon.  Dull white outer shell, brilliant white inner
shell.  Tail width of a fist at arm's length."
(Many thanks to Jim Hickman and David Edwards for these
reports.)
(Editor's Comment:  This isn't the first time a luminous
object has "disappeared" once reaching the "handle" of the
Big Dipper.  Some ufologists think there might be an alien
stargate about 200,000 miles (320,000 kilometers) from
Earth, in a geosynchronous orbit that causes it to appear
"stationary" between Alcor and Mizar.  UFOs supposedly use
this stargate to enter hyperspace and travel to and from
their home solar systems.)


HOVERING UFO SEEN IN
MOSS BLUFF, LOUISIANA

      "Late last week, some in Calcasieu Parish say they
saw something else in the sky" beside the planet Mars,
"out of the ordinary, and they were able to capture it on
home video."
      "Dwayne Wilks reported, 'My daughter called and said,
'Dad, come outside.  There's something really weird in the
sky.'  It was sometime after 9 p.m. last Thursday night.
(August 28, 2003)  Never seen nothing like that before in
my life.'"
      "Wilks, who lives in Moss Bluff, La. (population
10,535), and other residents nearby saw something very
unusual in the sky."
      "On Paul Bellon Road in Moss Bluff," which is located
on Highway 171 about 60 miles (100 kilometers) east of
Beaumont, Texas, "some residents say they saw a very
strange string of bright lights.  They say it happened in
a field, just above a group of tall trees."
      "Wilks says, 'I know there was 10 of us, and all of
us saw the same thing.'"
      "Wilks' father, Daniel, saw it, too.  'There were
definitely lights out there.  Now, craft--I couldn't say
yes or no because it was dark, and I couldn't see any
craft.  But I did see the lights.'"
      "And the Wilks family weren't the only ones to see
it.  The Bellons, who live just around the corner, saw it,
too, and the Calcasieu Parish Sheriff's Office says
another report of it also came in that night from Iowa."
      "Wilks says the people who live here say they've seen
lots of aircraft pass through the area, but nothing that
resembles this.  'I've been living here all my life and
never seen nothing in that field, so it wasn't just some
object out there.  It was high enough off the ground.  It
was something in the air.  You couldn't hear it.  It was
strange, totally strange.'"
      "The Lake Charles Regional Airport had no reports of
any strange object that night, and they say the airport
radar didn't pick up anything."  (See the KPLC-TV news
broadcast for September 5, 2003.  Many thanks to Jim
Hickman for sending the transcript of the Lake Charles,
La. TV station broadcast.)


SPANISH POLICE INVESTIGATE
UFOLOGIST IN BIZARRE
MURDER CASE

      According to a report in Mundo Misterioso, "Albacete-
based parapsychologist and ufologist Jose de Zor, one of
the main experts in the UMMO (1967 UFO) case, has been
detained by the police" in Spain "and charged with the
murder of a young pilot, Manuel Esposito."
      "It is worth noting that de Zor has focused
exclusively on the ties between the UMMO case and 'the
amputated hand' of Albacete," Mundo Misterioso reported.
       "Manuel Esposito's corpse was found decapitated June
24 (2003).  An investigation was started in which the term
'ritual crime' was kept in mind by (Spanish) police
investigators at all times."
      "All clues lead to the small town of Albacete,
specifically its gay community."
      Albacete is in La Mancha province, about 150
kilometers (90 miles) southeast of Madrid, the capital of
Spain.
      "The veteran 'UMMOlogist,' leader of Albacete's gay
community and an activist in the Partido Socialista de
Espana (Spanish Socialist Party--J.T.), Jose de Zor,
attained an extra measure of popularity last year after
performing certain hypnotic regressions on Spanish
television."
      The date of Esposito's death, June 24, and the method
of murder--decapitation-- have fueled speculation that the
culprits might be linked to Masoneria (Freemasonry--J.T.).
Or they might be enemies of Freemasonry trying to "frame"
the Spanish lodges.
      June 24 is known as St. John's Day, commemorating
John the Baptist.  This desert prophet and cousin of Jesus
Christ was killed in 28 A.D., beheaded by the troops of
King Herod at the request of the princess Salome.  The
date reportedly has much significance in Masonic and
occult lore.
      As researcher Eugenia Macer-Story pointed out, "Yes,
there is a dangerous ritual sorcery cult 'out there,' as I
have often attempted to convey to U.S. researchers mired
in atheist, humanist programming."  (See Mundo Misterioso
for September 11, 2003.  Muchas gracias a Scott Corrales,
Guillermo Gimenez y Eugenia Macer-Story para esto
articulo.)
(Editor's Note: In the USA, no place has a more magickal
connotation than Bayou St. John, near the Esplanade Avenue
Bridge in New Orleans.  Here, from 1820 to 1840, the
notorious sorceress Marie Laveau used to hold her annual
hoodoo hootenanny every year on June 24, conjuring up
Cthulu-knows-what with her la Couleuvre Noire sorcery.
Marie lived in a cottage at 1020 St. Ann Street, in New
Orleans' Vieux Carre section--a good place to stay away
from on Halloween night!)


BLACK HELICOPTERS SEEN
IN NEW ENGLAND STATES

      Black helicopters were extremely active in southern
New Hampshire and southeastern Massachusetts last week.
      On Thursday, September 11, 2003, Marty Blanchard
reported, he was driving "to and from Maine to
Massachusetts" in the Portsmouth, New Hampshire area when
he saw "triangles and disks near the old Pease Air Force
Base, now Pease Tradeport, and black large helicopters in
groups of three trying to follow.  But the disks dropped
below treetop level at an accelerated rate.  I see them
often.  And there is new activity in the 'closed down'
Weapons Storage Facility at Pease."
      In Massachusetts, "groups of black helicopters" were
seen on Saturday, September 6, 2003, flying over
Attleboro, Mass. (population 42,068) and the neighboring
town of Rehoboth, Mass.  "The helicopters were very close
to the ground and created a lot of noise.  Residents in
the Danforth Street and Perryville Road area" of Rehoboth
"watched them for several minutes."
      In Attleboro, black helicopters were also reported
that afternoon over Oak Hill Avenue in the Dodgeville
section of the city.
      The black helicopters returned to the area again on
Wednesday afternoon, September 10, 2003.  A Rhode Island
schoolteacher reported that "my (high school) students
were talking about them."  The teens reportedly "saw them
over Read Street" in Attleboro "and Bakers Four Corners in
Seekonk, and also on the state line near the Fairlawn
neighborhood in Pawtucket, R.I.  I spoke to one boy who
said they were 'Blackhawks' (UH-60 Blackhawk helicopters--
J.T.), totally black with no markings.  They flew in
groups of three and occasionally stopped to hover over
homes and vacant lots.  He was very credible."
      On Friday, September 12, 2003, at about 2 p.m., a
woman living in West Dighton, Mass., just east of
Rehoboth, reported seeing "three black helicopters flying
very low, coming from Attleboro and heading east."  A few
hours later, she saw "one black helicopter coming from the
Cape (Cod) and flying due west."
      Elsewhere in the USA, vacationers in McGregor,
Minnesota saw a mysterious air task force in the sky early
Sunday morning, August 31, 2003.
      "Rick Cherry was with about 10 of his relatives and
friends when they spotted the baffling lights near their
McGregor-area lake cabins."
      "Counting blinking lights in the post-midnight
darkness, they estimated 26 aircraft, including one that
was huge.  The planes flew over McGregor
before turning east toward Duluth."
      The Duluth News-Tribune contacted the Minnesota Air
National Guard's 148th Fighter Wing about the overflight.
      "'You are not the only one to ask that question,'
replied Capt. Chris Cloutier, a spokesman for the Air
National Guard group.  'It's very, very curious...We were
not flying...and have no information.  It's a mystery to
us, as well."  (See the Duluth, Minn. News-Tribune for
September 13, 2003, "In the sky: What the heck?" page 1B.
Many thanks to Marty Blanchard and Mary Lou Jones-Drown
for the black helicopter reports.)


 From the UFO Files...

1894: MYSTERY AT THE
           GIRLS' SCHOOL

      Adam Weishaupt is best known today as the founder of
the Illuminati.   But the woman who rescued this
Eighteenth Century occultist from total obscurity is less
well known.
      Although a staunch Protestant, this lady's career, in
which she went from Victorian schoolgirl to World War I
counterspy to best-selling author, had several bumps with
the paranormal, including a pre-Roswell encounter with
UFOs.
      Her name was Nesta H. Webster, and "her father was
Mr. Robert Bevan, a rich banker of Trent Park,
Hertfordshire," UK.  "Nesta, the youngest of his large
family, was born in 1876, when her mother, Bevan's second
wife, was almost fifty."
      "In her first volume of autobiography, Spacious Days,
Mrs. Webster looked back on her early years as a golden
age.  On her father's beautiful estate she had the company
of her brothers and sisters, the numerous friendly staff,
pets and ponies.  Every summer the family with servants
would migrate to another of their houses, Fosbury Manor on
the Wiltshire downs, and then to their London house
overlooking Hyde Park.  Life was simple and assured, and
for a little girl, full of entertainment."
      "But, as Nesta grew older, certain drawbacks became
apparent.  Her mother, the daughter of a bishop, joined
the gloomy ranks of the strict Plymouth Brethren, withdrew
from worldly company and took to the study of Biblical
prophecies."
(Editor's Note: Other offspring of the Plymouth Brethren
with ties to the paranormal include Algernon Blackwood and
Aleister Crowley.)
      While Mrs. Bevan immersed herself in the Book of
Revelation and cast a jaundiced eye at Lord Shaftesbury
(after all, one could easily see the number 666 in the
curls of his bristling beard--J.T.), Nesta's father "fell
ill and doctors persuaded him to move abroad, to Cannes,
where Nesta was cut off from all congenial company.
Frivolous games, novels, amusements and parties were
forbidden by her mother, whose only friends were grim
Protestant ascetics."
      "The Bevan family were all clever and learned, and
Nesta took every opportunity of educating herself, reading
whatever books were permitted her and learning French,
German and Italian.  The family's annual visits to Trent
Park were her greatest pleasure, but when her father died
these came to an end.  The rest of the family grew up and
left home, and Nesta and her mother wandered about Europe
in search of unsociable hotels where Mrs. Bevan could
study her fanatical literature in peace."
      "It was not the custom in those days for young ladies
to go to school, but Nesta saw it was the only way to
escape her mother; and in response to her pesterings Mrs.
Bevan finally let her go back to England, to a school near
Stroud in Gloucestershire, kept by an old lady of
undoubted religious probity, Miss Winscombe."
(Editor's Note:  Stroud is a notorious UFO hotspot in UK.)
      "At this school, Brownshill Court, Nesta had her
first experience of the mysteries and conspiracies which
underlie the world of normal experience."
      Indeed, Brownshill Court was almost a real-life
counterpart of J.K. Rowling's fictional Hogwarts School,
with a curriculum seemingly scripted by H.P. Lovecraft.
("sure to find something queer in the cellar."--Pickman's
Model, 1926.)
      "There was something odd about the school.  Every
night the girls heard a horse approaching and stopping
outside it, and the house was full of whispers, creaks and
the sound of stealthy footsteps."
      "One of them saw a man crawling along the floor of
her dormitory, who ran off when challenged."
      "Most of the sounds came from the basement which the
girls were forbidden to enter, but one night two of them
opened the door leading to it and heard the sound of men's
voices and hammering.  Miss Winscombe evidently had some
guilty secret, for when she heard the girls talking about
the disturbances she swore them to secrecy on the Bible.
Nesta suspected that something supernatural was afoot, and
since she was terrified of ghosts she determined to leave
the school as soon as possible."
      "The mystery of Brownshill Court was never finally
resolved.  Many of the other girls were made nervous and
persuaded their parents to let them leave at the end of
the term, and the school closed down."
(Editor's Comment:  What is the strange secret of
Brownshill Court?  Well, here are a few possibilities:
      (A) It was a secret hideout of the Knights Templar.
      (B) It was the UK headquarters of the Deros.
      (C) Renfrew was hammering out a coffin for his
          master, Count Dracula.
      (D) Miss Winscombe was a closet Reptoid.)
      In September 1894, "at the age of eighteen, Nesta was
allowed to spend two years at Westfield College in
Hampstead reading for a degree.  Her lack of formal
education made it hard work, but she enjoyed the
intellectual freedom of college."
      In 1897, "a legacy from her father made her
independent at the age of twenty-one, and soon afterwards
she began an adventurous series of travels.  Wherever she
went, in Egypt, India, Ceylon (now Sri Lanka--J.T.), Burma
(now Myanmar--J.T.), Australia, the United States and
Canada, she entered as far as possible into the lives of
the natives, learnt their languages and wrote comments on
their various societies and customs."
      "Finally, in 1904, while visiting a remote part of
India, she met a district police superintendent, Arthur
Webster, a quiet, middle-aged bachelor whose main interest
was gardening.  They quickly became engaged and returned
to England for their marriage."
      "Her husband, she noted, answered almost exactly to
the prophetic description of him given two years earlier
(in 1902) by a London fortune-teller."
      For Nesta, this was her second brush with the
paranormal, but it was not to be her last.  (See the book
Eccentric Lives, Peculiar Notions by John Michell, Black
Dog and Leventhal Publishers, New York, N.Y., 1999, pages
62 through 65.  Also
Behind World Revolution: The Strange Career of Nesta H.
Webster by Richard Gilman, Insights Books, Ann Arbor,
Mich., 1982, pages 17 through 43.)

      Next Week: Enter the Illuminati...and the Saucers!

      That's it for this week.  Join us next time for more
UFO, Fortean and paranormal news from around the planet
Earth, brought to you by "the paper that goes home--UFO
Roundup."  See you in seven days.

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   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Sep > Sep 16

               My FOIA Requeste Status Re The 'Carlisle Caper'

From: Larry W. Bryant <overtci@cavtel.net>
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 13:44:28 -0400 (EDT)
Fwd Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 16:38:25 -0400
Subject: My FOIA Requeste Status Re The 'Carlisle Caper'

To: shirley.cabarras@us.army.mil

TO:   Ms. Shirley Cabarras
      FOIA Officer for TRADOC (ATZG-BO-PF)
      Hq, U. S. Army Training and Doctrine command
      Fort Monroe, VA 23651-5000

FROM: Larry W. Bryant
      3518 Martha Custis Drive
      Alexandria, VA 22302

DATE: September 16, 2003

Referring to your e-mail message to me of Sept. 15, 2003(quoted
below),in which you ask me to provide you a detailed
justification for my seeking a records-search-fee waiver in your
expected fulfillment of my FOIA request of September 13,
2003(concerning Carlisle Barracks' illegal censorship of its
personnel's access to the website of
http://www.militarycorruption.com ), I hereby provide that
point-by-point justification:

(1) My ability to disseminate the substance of the sought-for
records lies mainly in my capacity as the censored website's
Washington Liaison for Open Information and Accountability.
What's more, my various updates on the
issues/developments/principals surrounding the subject matter
(i.e., the Barracks' censorship of the website's content/access)
are expected to be posted regularly upon the message bulletin
board of an online, worldwide-circulated petition called "Stop
the First Amendment Violation at Carlisle Barracks!" Of course,
if the officials at Carlisle choose to continue and/or export
their (illegal) bar-to-access against the MC.com site, that
recalcitrance not only would arbitrarily truncate my
disseminatory capability but also would thereby invoke a
litigative cause-of-action on my part to counter this dual
obstruction of my FOIA rights and my own First Amendment rights
of freedom of speech/press.

(2) My demonstrated expertise in the subject area of my request
encompasses a number of e-published essays, FOIA lawsuits, and
First Amendment lawsuits (including at least two partially
successful ones against the Department of the Army). Besides my
30-some-year career in the field of government-managed writing-
editing, my public-issue free-lance publication credits date
back to the 1960's and include articles published in such print
media as the Newport News, Va., Daily Press, Fate Magazine, FACT
magazine, the Realist magazine, US magazine, the Baltimore Sun's
Sunday magazine, and some lesser known newsletters like the
Operation Right-to-Know Forum. If you'll reimburse me for
reproduction expenses, I gladly can furnish you a copy of most
of those published credits.

(3) Disclosure of the sought-for records would significantly
contribute to public understanding of the operations and
activities of the Department of the Army because of the lack of
an acceptable rationale for Carlisle Barracks' censorship.
Indeed, if any of the censorship is meant to thwart (or results
in thwarting) the investigatory, reportorial, and disseminatory
activities of the MC.com website, then that illegal Army
objective needs to be exposed and communicated to all members of
the public -- so as to sustain their stakeholdership in
understanding, overseeing, and countering such abuse of
authority as represented by the contested censorship.

(4) Those parties expected to benefit from the requested
disclosure include the entire current and future worldwide
audience of the censored website(particularly the thousands of
servicemembers, federal civilian personnel, their family
members, government-contractor personnel, news-media
producers/practitioners, legislators, law-enforcement officials,
law students, and specialists in FOIA/First Amendment
jurisprudence. These parties' benefit can be measured in terms
of the informational and inspirational value available to them
via unfettered access to the affected website -- as to be
fostered by your mandatory disclosure of ALL the sought-for
records. Once disclosed, the records may well be quite useful to
the plaintiff as a discovery resource in his expected First
Amendment lawsuit against the Army.

(5) The current level of public attention to the general subject
to which the sought-for records relate continues to grow with
every radio talk-show interview of the website's founding chief
editor. The two-fold-plus rise in visitor traffic to the MC.com
site since publication of the original Harrisburg, Pa.,
newspaper story on the censorship case attests to the issue's
continued newsworthiness. Likewise, your decision to delay the
granting of my fee-waiver request can only heighten the public's
growing interest in how much more the Army intends to accentuate
and obscure its faulty decisionmaking and policymaking in what's
become known as the Carlisle Caper.

With the above-expressed justification for my FOIA requester
status as an independent writer, you now have more than enough
basis on which to grant my requested fee waiver.

If you decide to deny me the waiver, please note my resolve to
contest that denial in federal court.



LARRY W. BRYANT

P.S.: Relevant to your deliberations in the instant case, please
keep in mind that my requester status, as similarly explained
above, recently has been acknowledged by the FOIA staff at the
U. S. Department of State.

Copies furnished to:

Mark S. Zaid, Esq.

Editor-in-Chief, http://www.militarycorruption.com

Chairman, Subcomittee on Technology and Information Policy -- U.
S. House of Representatives

Director, Public Citizen


TEXT OF MS. CABARRAS'S SEPT. 15, 2003, E-MAIL MESSAGE TO L.W.B.:

This is in response to your Freedom of Information Act (FOIA)
request for information pertaining to the internet web site at
Carlisle Barracks. The processing of your request cannot be
initiated until you provide additional information.

Although you have requested a waiver of fees, you have not
furnished sufficient information to show why you would be
entitled to such a waiver. Specifically, your request should
address:

*your ability to disseminate the information to the public;

*your expertise in the subject area of the request and ability
and intention to disseminate the information to the public;

*how disclosure of the requested documents would significantly
contribute to the public understanding of the operations or
activities of the Department of the Army;

*who in the public would be benefited; and,

*the current level of public attention to the general subject to
which the information relates (newsworthiness).

Addition information pertaining to the "Fee Waiver Factors" are
listed below:

Explain how disclosure of the information is in the public
interest because it is likely to contribute significantly to
public understanding of the operations or activities of the
Government.

- The subject of the record - Explain how the subject matter of
your request involves issues that will significantly contribute
to the public understanding of the operations or activities of
the Department of Defense.

- The informative value of the information to be disclosed -
 Explain how the contents of this record would be meaningful and
shall inform the public on the operations or activities of the
Department of Defense.

- the contribution to an understanding of the subject by the
general public likely to result from disclosure.

1. Explain how disclosure will inform, or have the potential to
inform the public, rather than simply an individual or small
segment of interested persons.

2. Discuss your capability and intention to disseminate the
information to the public, along with information concerning
your capacity to further disclose the information in a manner
that will be informative to the general public.

3. Describe your qualifications, the nature of your
research/interest, the purpose of the requested information, and
your intended means of dissemination to the public.

  - The significance of the contribution to public
understanding- Explain the relative significance or impact of
the disclosure against the current level of public knowledge or
understanding which exists before disclosure.

As an alternative, and, as an "all others" category or
requester, you are responsible for the assessable search time
after the first two hours, and reproduction fees after the first
100 pages, associated with processing your request. Upon receipt
of a statement concerning your willingness to pay the assessable
costs associated with processing your request, an estimate will
be prepared. If this estimate exceeds $250.00, you will be
required to pay in advance prior to action being taken to
process your request.

Please reply within 30 days with the additional information
indicated above. Should you fail to reply within 30 days, your
request will be administratively closed. You can reply by email
at the address provided below, fax at (757)788-3328, or email at
foia@monroe.army.mil

U.S. Army Headquarters Training and Doctrine Command
ATTN: ATZG-BO-PF(FOIA Officer)
Fort Monroe, VA 23651-5000

This does not constitute a denial of your request under Section
552(a)(3)(A), Title 5, United States Code.

Should you have any questions concerning this response, please
contact me at (757) 788-5882, or email cabarras@monroe.army.mil

Sincerely,
/s/
Shirley Cabarras
Freedom of Information Officer







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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Sep > Sep 16

                Re: John Ford Redux (SDI 6 September, 2003) -

From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 12:56:16 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 16:40:33 -0400
Subject: Re: John Ford Redux (SDI 6 September, 2003) -


>From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com>
>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 15:53:05 -0700
>Subject: Re: John Ford Redux (SDI 6 September, 2003)

>>From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 16:16:34 -0500
>>Subject: Re: John Ford Redux (SDI 6 September, 2003)

<snip>

>>Astonishing - I've told you our porch is on fire and you say
>>drop it because we don't have any weenies and marshmallows!
>><LOL>!

>No, I'm saying drop it because the whole rest of the house is
>falling into a sinkhole anyway.


That's by no means a natural sinkhole, sir! That's a
deliberate, unethical, illegal and still uncorrected excavation!

Lehmberg@snowhill.com
www.alienview.net

Photo Album: http://www.alienview.net/AVAlbum.htm
(send picture as attachment to Lehmberg@snowhill.com)
Splash page:   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AlienViewGroup/
Radio Show & Splash Page:  http://www.alienview.net/alienviews.htm
Radio Show Archives: Out of Service at this time...







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   Sep > Sep 17

                          Secrecy News -- 09/15/03

From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood@fas.org>
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 16:06:43 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 06:46:12 -0400
Subject: Secrecy News -- 09/15/03


SECRECY NEWS
from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy
Volume 2003, Issue No. 76
September 15, 2003


**      SSCI WON'T SEEK DECLASS OF "27 PAGES" ON 9/11
**      DOCUMENT DIPLOMACY
**      CAMP DAVID ACCORDS REVISITED
**      GAO ON FOIA POLICY


SSCI WON'T SEEK DECLASS OF "27 PAGES" ON 9/11

In a blow to public disclosure of the background to the
September 11 terrorist attacks, the Senate Select Committee
on Intelligence (SSCI) said last week that it will not
pursue the release of 27 classified pages from the report
of the congressional Joint Inquiry into September 11,
despite the urging of many Senate Democrats and some
Republicans that it do so.   The withheld pages reportedly
refer to Saudi support of the September 11 hijackers.

The Committee heard testimony on September 4 concerning the
Administration's justification for continued classification
of the material.

"Based on this testimony and our own review of the
information, it is our view that release of additional
information... could adversely affect ongoing
counterterrorism efforts," wrote SSCI chairman Sen. Pat
Roberts and vice chairman Sen. John D. Rockefeller IV in a
September 9 letter to Senator Bob Graham.  See their letter
here:

http://www.fas.org/irp/news/2003/09/ssci090903.html

The Bush Administration's insistence on classifying the
information "is a grave disservice to our nation," Sen.
Graham said last July.

Graham, the former SSCI chairman, and Sen. Richard Shelby,
the former vice chairman, had led calls for further
disclosure of the censored material, which they said could
be accomplished without compromise of sensitive national
security information.

Under Senate (and House) rules, Congress has the authority to
release information that the executive branch has
classified, though this authority has never been exercised
(SN, 05/16/03).

By refusing to engage the Administration's secrecy concerning
foreign support for the 9/11 attacks, the Senate
Intelligence Committee has dealt a setback to the 9/11
investigation, missed an opportunity to confront
Administration secrecy policies, and reinforced its own
reputation as the most ineffectual intelligence overseer in
memory.

"The leadership vacuum is so acute on questions of
intelligence that now even other Republicans are moving to
fill it," according to The New Republic (9/22/03, p. 11).
"At this rate, the passivity of Roberts and Rockefeller may
get them what they deserve:  irrelevance."


DOCUMENT DIPLOMACY

The Pentagon last week provided a copy of historical
documents concerning the death of Stalin's eldest son in a
World War II German concentration camp to Stalin's
granddaughter, the Pentagon said in a press statement.

The move came as part of an effort to clarify the fates of
Russian and American prisoners of war since World War II.
See "POW/MIA Documents Released to Russians":

  http://www.defenselink.mil/releases/2003/nr20030912-0444.html


CAMP DAVID ACCORDS REVISITED

A selection of declassified documents on the Camp David
summit that led to a peace treaty between Egypt and Israel
in September 1978 has been published by the Jimmy Carter
Presidential Library on the twenty-fifth anniversary of the
summit.

See "The Camp David Accords After Twenty Five Years" linked
from here:

http://www.jimmycarterlibrary.org/documents/index.phtml


GAO ON FOIA POLICY

The General Accounting Office found that the new, more
restrictive Freedom of Information Act policy announced by
Attorney General Ashcroft in October 2001 had only limited
impact in practice on the processing of FOIA requests,
according to a GAO report released today.

"Of the FOIA officers surveyed, 48 percent reported that they
did not notice a change with regard to the likelihood of
their agency making discretionary disclosures. About one
third of the FOIA officers reported a decreased likelihood
[of disclosure]," the report stated.

See "Freedom of Information Act: Agency Views on Changes
Resulting from New Administration Policy," September 2003:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/foia/gao-03-981.pdf


_______________________________________________
Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the
Federation of American Scientists.

To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to
secrecy_news-request@lists.fas.org
with "subscribe" in the body of the message.

OR email your request to saftergood@fas.org

Secrecy News is archived at:
http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html

_______________________
Steven Aftergood
Project on Government Secrecy
Federation of American Scientists
web:    www.fas.org/sgp/index.html
email:  saftergood@fas.org
voice:  (202) 454-4691






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   Sep > Sep 17

              Re: Review: Socorro 'Saucer' In A Pentagon Pantry

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker@earthlink.net>
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 14:36:14 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 06:49:28 -0400
Subject: Re: Review: Socorro 'Saucer' In A Pentagon Pantry


>From: James Oberg <jamesoberg@houston.rr.com>
>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 16:45:49 -0500
>Subject: Re: Review: Socorro 'Saucer' In A Pentagon Pantry

>>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>>Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 20:44:47 +0000
>>Subject: Re: Review: Socorro 'Saucer' In A Pentagon Pantry

><snip>

>I should dig out my 1970's era notes taken when I was talking by
>phone with Tom Sciacca about the claims of an admitted (by
>Frankel) - then recanted - test proving extraterrestrial nature
>of the sample.

>Sciacca kept chuckling over what he portrayed as poor Frankel's
>being harrassed [Sic.] by repeated telephone calls from Stanford, until
>(according to Sciacca) Frankel just refused any further calls
>and had them passed to his associate who told Stanford to stop
>calling.

That might well be what Sciacca told you the full twelve years
after the fact that you spoke to him, and oe might either
dismiss it as bad memory with maybe a little confabulation, or
as part of the cover-up. In the first place, if you will re-read
pages 140 through 142 of my book, you will see that Frankel had
specifically asked me to call him back to get details concerning
very small traces of other metals that were present in the zinc-
iron alloy. He had told me to give him a week to get the results
on the trace metals, and I asked if the next Wednesday (a week
from then) would be a good time to call. Frankel answered, "Yes,
that will give me more than enough time."

I waited the full week to call and Frankel's secretary said he
was not in, adding, "Could you possibly call him back tomorrow
or the next day?"

When I called back the next day, Frankel's secretary said, "Oh,
Mr. Stanford, I'm sorry. Dr. Frankel simply is not available
today. He wonders if you might try him the first part of next
week."

"How about tomorrow?", I asked. "Couldn't he arrange a specific
time that I might talk to him tomorrow, Friday?"

"Would you hold the line a moment, please?", the secretary
asked.

She returned to say, "I'm sorry, but Dr. Frankel really cannot
arrange to talk to you anytime tomorrow. I suggest you call him
again on Monday," adding, "The same time at which you have been
calling is fine."

When the time came on Monday, I called and was told by the
secretary, "Dr. Frankel is unprepared, at this time, to discuss
the information you are calling about."  No explanation was
offered or sought by me, but I asked the secretary whether
perhaps he could talk to me the next day. It had been twelve
days since Frankel's assurance that one week would be more than
enough time.

When I called Frankel's office on Tuesday, the secretary said,
"I'm sorry, but Dr. Frankel is in a top-level security
conference. I doubt that he will be able to talk with you until
tomorrow or the next day."

"Shall I call back at the same time tomorrow?" I asked.

"You might try him tomorrow, if he's available then," the
secretary replied.

Finally, on Wednesday, I called Frankel's office for the sixth
time, learning, "It's not possible for Dr. Frankel to talk with
you today."

When I asked if I could leave my phone number, I was told, "Yes,
but I cannot guarantee you when you will receive a call."

Near noon on Thursday, the phone rang and a male voice said,
"This is Thomas P. Sciacca, Jr., of the Spacecraft Systems
Branch of the National Aeronautics and Space Administration's
Goddard Space Flight Center, in Greenbelt, Maryland. I have been
appointed to call you and report the official conclusion of the
Socorro sample analysis. Dr. Frankel is no longer involved with
the matter,so in response to your inquiries, I want to tell you
the results of the analysis."

So, Frankel was no longer involved! Frankel's original agreement
was to analyze the sample, "...on an unofficial basis," as Dick
Hall had said in his June 24, 1964, letter to me. Suddenly,
Frankel was no longer involved, and here was Sciacca giving me a
very "official" conclusion that the sample had only been silica-
dioxide, which conclusion he also sent me on official letterhead
on September 11, 1964, making it clearly official. The letter's
document code is: "FILE 3875, 623.8 (64)-40/TS/cmd."

If you want to find fault with me, Jim, for doggedly but
politely trying to learn the 'detailed analysis' result on the
Socorro sample analysis, fine! But let's remember that Dr.
Frankel had promised to talk with me again, about the details of
the analysis. He never did, despite my giving him plenty of
chances.

I asked myself why he would not personally pick up the phone and
simply tell me what had transpired.

My personal opinion became (but only after immediately learning
from Dr. P.E. Smith that the X-ray diffraction of a silicate
cannot be mistaken for that of a zinc-iron alloy) that the
matter had indeed become official NASA business, and that Dr.
Frankel, good man that he had seemed to me to be, did not want
to personally lie to me about the analysis, so he let Sciacca
become the one to shovel out the B.S..

And, Jim, in this matter, you were truly a Johnny-Come-Lately.
You did not contact Thomas P. Sciacca, Jr., until soon after
Hynek spoke to the group of astronomers where you worked with in
NASA at the manned spaceflight center, in early July, 1976, and
on which occasion he donated a copy of my book to the technical
library of manned spaceflight center, there, twelve years after
the events at Goddard. (My reference is a letter to me from John
P. Schuessler, one of your colleagues there and current head of
MUFON, written to me right after Hynek was there, praising my
book.) So your account from Sciacca is hardly the "contemporary
notes" Dick Hall calls it in his posting to UFO UpDates today
about your contribution to this affair.

>If I'd had to guess, I couldn't imagine any reason for Sciacca
>to make up his version of the story, I was not some famous
>investigator to be conned or duped.

Well, I certainly could! But, remember that Sciacca talked to
you 'off the top of his head', twelve years after the events he
discussed, which surely had not remained at the top of his
memory list as the events were for me and possibly for Dick
Hall, as well. And, as a matter of fact, you were, even then,
pretty well known as a UFO skeptic. As a colleague, I might
expect Sciacca to talk as cautiously to you as many government
employees or contractors talk to each other about controversial
matters like UFOs. Furthermore, I seriously doubt Sciacca had
access to the conversations I had with Dr. Frankel's secretary,
when trying to reach Frankel for his promised final details.

Because of the above, Jim, your account has little evidential
value, but thanks for sharing.

Ray Stanford

"You know my method. It is founded upon the observance of
trifles." -- Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery








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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Sep > Sep 17

              Re: Review: Socorro 'Saucer' In A Pentagon Pantry

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker@earthlink.net>
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 14:38:44 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 06:51:19 -0400
Subject: Re: Review: Socorro 'Saucer' In A Pentagon Pantry


>From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 20:04:10 -0300
>Subject: Re: Review: Socorro 'Saucer' In A Pentagon Pantry

>>From: James Oberg <jamesoberg@houston.rr.com>
>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>>Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 16:45:49 -0500
>>Subject: Re: Review: Socorro 'Saucer' In A Pentagon Pantry

>>>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
>>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>>>Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 20:44:47 +0000
>>>Subject: Re: Review: Socorro 'Saucer' In A Pentagon Pantry

>><snip>

>>I should dig out my 1970's era notes taken when I was talking by
>>phone with Tom Sciacca about the claims of an admitted (by
>>Frankel) - then recanted - test proving extraterrestrial nature
>>of the sample.

>>Sciacca kept chuckling over what he portrayed as poor Frankel's
>>being harrassed by repeated telephone calls from Stanford, until
>>(according to Sciacca) Frankel just refused any further calls
>>and had them passed to his associate who told Stanford to stop
>>calling.

>>If I'd had to guess, I couldn't imagine any reason for Sciacca
>>to make up his version of the story, I was not some famous
>>investigator to be conned or duped. I kept a folder on this and
>>planned to do an OMNI column on it, but there were so many more
>>interesting stories, I never got around to it.

>Now what you've just relayed just makes it worse. Why did he
>recant? Why wouldn't Frankel return the calls, why did he pass
>them to an associate? And what happened to the damn samples?

>I'm not sure if I find this amusing or just more in a long line
>of NASA bullshit.


Amen, Don.  You took the words right out of my heart.

Appreciatively,
Ray Stanford

"You know my method.  It is founded upon the observance of
trifles." -- Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery








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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Sep > Sep 17

              Re: Review: Socorro 'Saucer' In A Pentagon Pantry

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker@earthlink.net>
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 14:43:25 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 06:52:40 -0400
Subject: Re: Review: Socorro 'Saucer' In A Pentagon Pantry


>From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 16:50:19 -0700 (PDT)
>Subject: Re: Review: Socorro 'Saucer' In A Pentagon Pantry

>>From: James Oberg <jamesoberg@houston.rr.com>
>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>>Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 16:45:49 -0500
>>Subject: Re: Review: Socorro 'Saucer' In A Pentagon Pantry

><snip>

>>I should dig out my 1970's era notes taken when I was talking by
>>phone with Tom Sciacca about the claims of an admitted (by
>>Frankel) - then recanted - test proving extraterrestrial nature
>>of the sample.

>Not once in "Socorro 'Saucer'" does Stanford claim that the test
>results "proved" an ET origin for the metal samples given to
>Goddard.  He says, simply, that analysis revealed an unusual
>zinc-iron alloy that would have ideal for landing gear (from
>which the samples were assumed to have been scraped).

>While this is intriguing, it's not "proof," and Stanford never
>says it is.


Truer words were never spoken.  Thanks, Mac.

Ray Stanford

"You know my method.  It is founded upon the observance of
trifles." -- Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery








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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Sep > Sep 17

                       Re: Webmasters Beware! - Hayes

From: John Hayes <webmaster@ufoinfo.com>
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 21:06:01 +0100
Fwd Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 06:55:53 -0400
Subject: Re: Webmasters Beware! - Hayes


>From: Larry Hatch <larry@LARRYHATCH.NET>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 21:53:15 -0700
>Subject: Webmasters Beware!

>If you have a domain name registered anywhere, be
>absolutely sure to check your Expiration Date! Contact your
>domain registrar (Network Solutions etc..) and make sure
>this is crystal clear. I recommend automatic renewal via
>credit card. Be sure your Registrar has your latest CCard
>expiration date too!

Hi Larry, List,

In connection to this I recently had an e-mail from Network
Solutions regarding ICANN requirements. The relevant part:

"The Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN)
is the non-profit corporation responsible for accrediting domain
name registration providers. ICANN requires domain name
registration customers to keep their WHOIS contact information
current. ICANN mandates that outdated contact information can be
grounds for domain name cancellation."

On checking my entry I had a warning notice that my credit card
had expired (quickly updated) and a few other details were not
how they looked the last time I checked. A look at the last
sentence in the ICANN requirements should encourage everyone
with a domain to check their details.

Best wishes,

John Hayes

webmaster@ufoinfo.com

UFOINFO:- http://www.ufoinfo.com

Official Archives for UFO Roundup, AUFORN Australian
UFO Reports and Experiences, UFO + PSI Magazine
plus archives of Humanoid Sighting Reports (Albert
Rosales), Filer's Files, Oz Files, UFO News UK.







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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Sep > Sep 17

                Re: UK UFO Magazine's Graham Birdsall Suffers

From: Stephen Bassett <SGBList2@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 16:13:45 EDT
Fwd Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 07:34:07 -0400
Subject: Re: UK UFO Magazine's Graham Birdsall Suffers


>From: A. J. Gevaerd - Revista UFO <gevaerd@ufo.com.br>
>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 10:54:55 -0300
>Subject: UK UFO Magazine's Graham Birdsall Suffers Brain Hemorrhage

>Dear Friends & Colleagues:

<snip>

>Because of this terrible situation, the cancellation of the 22nd
>International UFO Conference and Gala Dinner is to be announced
>by Russel at any time.

>It is absolutely terrifying to see a great person such as Graham
>Birdsall in such illness. But let's hope and pray for his
>recovery soon. He is an icon for the world UFO community and a
>great developer of this field.

>A. J. Gevaerd

Surely there must be some supporters in the UK who can step into
the breech and carry the work load for the Birdsall family in
order to put on the conference in Leeds. Graham loves this
conference, and I would think would want it to take place. Such
events are more than just entertainment, they are key venues for
keeping the public informed about the most profound
circumstances - something the government and the press will not
properly do.

I call on the supporters of disclosure in the UK to contact
Graham's family and Russel Callaghan and offer to help put on
the Leeds event.


In sympathy and determination,

Steve Bassett







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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Sep > Sep 17

              Re: Review: Socorro 'Saucer' In A Pentagon Pantry

From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 20:26:33 +0000
Fwd Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 07:42:34 -0400
Subject: Re: Review: Socorro 'Saucer' In A Pentagon Pantry


>From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 16:50:19 -0700 (PDT)
>Subject: Re: Review: Socorro 'Saucer' In A Pentagon Pantry

>>From: James Oberg <jamesoberg@houston.rr.com>
>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>>Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 16:45:49 -0500
>>Subject: Re: Review: Socorro 'Saucer' In A Pentagon Pantry

><snip>

>>I should dig out my 1970's era notes taken when I was talking by
>>phone with Tom Sciacca about the claims of an admitted (by
>>Frankel) - then recanted - test proving extraterrestrial nature
>>of the sample.

>Not once in "Socorro 'Saucer'" does Stanford claim that the test
>results "proved" an ET origin for the metal samples given to
>Goddard.  He says, simply, that analysis revealed an unusual
>zinc-iron alloy that would have ideal for landing gear (from
>which the samples were assumed to have been scraped).

>While this is intriguing, it's not "proof," and Stanford never
>says it is.

>>Mac Tonnies (macbot@yahoo.com)

No, he just strongly believes it [proof of ET] and implies it
all over the place, while trying to "spin" what happened at
NASA-Goddard into evidence of a NASA cover-up in which I was
complicit. He did claim that Frankel was "leaning toward" an ET
interpretation which he later recanted. To Don Ledger: This
recantation was only Stanford's claim, not a proven reality.

 - Dick







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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Sep > Sep 17

              Re: Review: Socorro 'Saucer' In A Pentagon Pantry

From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 21:01:35 +0000
Fwd Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 07:45:53 -0400
Subject: Re: Review: Socorro 'Saucer' In A Pentagon Pantry


>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker@earthlink.net>
>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 23:31:03 -0400
>Subject: Re: Review: Socorro 'Saucer' In A Pentagon Pantry

>>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
>>To: ufoupdates@sympatico.ca
>>Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 20:44:47 +0000
>>Subject: Re: Review: Socorro 'Saucer' In A Pentagon Pantry

>>>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker@earthlink.net>
>>>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>>Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 14:00:24 -0400
>>>Subject: Re: Review: Socorro 'Saucer' In A Pentagon Pantry


>>Here is my counter-review:

>>Book Review: Socorro "Saucer" in a Pentagon Pantry, by Ray
>>Stanford (Austin, TX: Blueapple Books, 1976).

>>When Stanford's book was first published 12 years after the
>>Socorro case occurred, I was astonished at his claims and
>>wondered why he had said nothing in all those years if he
>>believed I was involved even indirectly in a cover-up. Why did
>>he wait 12 years (six years after I left NICAP) to make an issue
>>of my handling of the Socorro case? For all I knew until 1976,
>>Stanford reluctantly accepted the NASA analysis report despite
>>his obvious desire at the time to believe that he had conclusive
>>physical proof.

>That's not true, because, Dick, you surely know (unless you're
>losing your memory) that I told you right away about Dr. P. E.
>Smith's telling me that it was impossible to mistake the X-ray
>diffraction pattern of a silicate for that of a Zinc-iron alloy,
>that I was (after Smith's comments) convinced a cover-up had
>gone on. I even challenged you to consult such as expert for
>yourself.

>So List readers, please note that Hall has never reported asking
>any such expert, either because he had a made-up mind or else
>because he consulted such an expert and was told just what I was
>told by Smith, Hynek, and a host of others.

>As to the book not coming out until 1976, its just that I had
>much more going in my life than writing a UFO book, and in order
>to be careful and thorough, it just took me that long to get it
>ready. I am not accountable to Dick Hall for when I say
>something or what for what I say, even though he seems to imply
>that I should be.

>>When Stanford first phoned me on June 20, 1975, he talked about
>>a book he was writing on the Socorro case. He did not tell me
>>that the book was going to be highly critical of me and my role
>>in the case and reach conclusions that contradicted those of
>>NICAP.

>The book was not highly critical of Hall, just factual.
>Furthermore, contrary to what Dick seems to want to believe, I
>am not accountable to tell him everything I'm going to publish
>before doing so. Just how important does this joker think he
>is?!

>>Nor, obviously, did he give me any opportunity to comment
>>on the allegations that would be made before publishing them.

>I had the comments of unbiased scientific analysts, so why
>should I ask Hall again, since I knew his position, and his
>education is in philosophy, not analytical science? I had
>listened to plenty of his self-defending comments, right after
>the cover-up was issued by Thomas P. Sciacca of the Space
>Materials Division at Goddard.

>>In fact, during this conversation I told him about a new report of
>>"fused sand" found at the site, discovered by Stanton Friedman
>>and investigated by Dr. James McDonald. He used this information
>>in the book without crediting it to me.

>Why should I credit Dick, since I had heard that report before I
>ever talked to him, from a source requesting confidence?

>>I suppose that to credit
>>it to me would have tended to contradict his thesis (unknown to
>>me at the time) that I was a simpleton and/or a Government dupe.

>That is ridiculous, rather paranoid sounding, self-serving
>drivel. This List deserves better, Dick!

>>Stanford even gets the date of the visit to NASA-Goddard wrong.
>>As verified by entries in Walt Webb's diary, we met with Ray on
>>July 23, 1964, and went to NASA-Goddard on July 24, 1964, not
>>July 31.

>I prefer my own notes, but even if Hall is right about the date,
>it may be simply a misreading of the calendar on my part, not
>one involving the basic issue, which he has always tried to
>dance around.

>>Stanford claims that I was told by Dr. Frankel at Goddard that
>>the preliminary analysis pointed toward an extraterrestrial
>>source, which of course when I denied it would make me out to be
>>either stupid or part of a cover-up. I absolutely deny being
>>told that, and can only attribute it to Stanford's will to
>>believe and or penchant for self-deception. Furthermore, at that
>>time no quantitative analyses had been conducted so that any
>>such suggestion is idiotic.

>When Dr. Frankel made his telephone call to me reporting the
>zinc-iron alloy finding (and saying that there were only tiny
>traces of other elements), and commenting that the finding might
>lend itself to the extra-terrestrial interpretation because the
>alloy was not listed on their charts of alloys produced world-
>wide, he told me he had already called Hall and told him the
>same thing. (See page 139, Socorro Saucer Saucer in A Pentagon
>Pantry.) I prefer Dr. Frankel's statement over Hall's. Of course
>I only have Frankel's word to me of what he told Hall, but since
>Hall has no recording of the conversation, I will take Frankel's
>word for it.

>>On p. 116, Stanford quite falsely attributes to me the decision
>>to go to NASA-Goddard for the analysis. The record of our
>>correspondence shows very clearly that the decision was his.
>>Several options were open to him, and I repeatedly asked which
>>he preferred. One was the Smithsonian Laboratories in Cambridge,
>>Mass., where Walt Webb was astronomy lecturer at the Charles
>>Hayden Planetarium and would be able to personally supervise the
>>analysis. Stanford also had an alternate possibility in Phoenix,
>>Ariz., and I suggested to him in a letter that if he felt it
>>would be competent and a public report made available, "that
>>would probably be the best arrangement." So, no one twisted
>>Stanford's arm or insisted that NASA-Goddard was the place to
>>go, contrary to his depiction of events.

>Of course no one twisted my arm! I've never even suggested that.
>Dick is again trying to put words into my mouth. I chose Hall's
>suggestion of Goddard because I felt the results might carry
>more weight, if coming from an important person at NASA Goddard.
>I've never blamed Dick for that decision, but I blame him for
>'buying' the cover-up and for never (judging from the absence of
>any report from him about that) getting a second, third, or even
>sixth opinion about whether such a mistake was possible by an
>expert in X-ray diffraction.

>Come on Dick. Don't you think that after 39 years of whimpering
>about my position on this, you should make the kind of inquiry I
>immediately made or stop complaining once and for all? Your
>silence on that is telling. Very telling.

>>Unfortunately, there are numerous other gross distortions in the
>>book, and some outright false statements. Although he does a
>>good job of reporting the basic facts of the case (with one or
>>two red herring exceptions), his version of what went on at
>>NICAP and what happened at NASA-Goddard is purely imaginary,
>>apparently a result of the systematic self-delusion (i.e., self-
>>deception, fooling oneself into believing something is true when
>>it isn't) that he has fallen victim too for most of his life.

>Let's not forget that Robert McGarey was with me during all
>this, and was standing right beside me when Frankel told me the
>exciting result of the analysis. He saw me jump up and down and
>shout for joy at Frankel's words, and he has not forgotten it.
>He was also with me when I talked to Dr. P.E. Smith for a second
>opinion. So, Dick it is not just my word against yours. Do you,
>likewise, want to call Robert McGarey deluded or a liar? You are
>the one who seems to have been 'taken in', and I prefer to
>believe that than to believe you were a co-conspirator.

>>(See his strong pattern of believing he was in touch with space
>>beings, channeling accurate information from real beings,
>>communicating with Brothers., etc., all initially believed and
>>then --according to him--later disowned.)

>Talk about trying to put words into my mouth and beliefs into my
>mind that I haven't held since age 19! I will deal with the
>matter of my view of my years as a research psychic in the
>letter I am preparing in response to Loren Coleman's attack on
>me. Suffice it to say here that in every public forum (and
>private ones) I always stated that the 'independent
>personalities' that sometimes 'spoke through' me were very
>possibly simply masquerated by my own unconscious to add spice
>to the message. Dick has read my 1974 interview in psychic and
>knows I even said that there, so he likewise knows it is false
>to say, as he just said, "See his strong pattern of believing he
>was in touch with space beings, channeling accurate information
>from real beings, communicating with Brothers., etc." And
>clearly, absolutely, I never ever claimed to be channeling space
>beings! Barf!!! Others might have believed that such was
>happening through me on rare occassions, but I always made it
>clear that I thought them wrong.

>Furthermore, that was long ago and far away. In Dick's 'book'
>psychic seems to be a bad word. Not all psychics are dishonest.
>Hugh Lynn Cayce, son of the late psychic Edgar Cayce, once had
>me come to Virginia Beach for some test readings to see whether
>I was a good and honest psychic. The result, told more than once
>by Hugh Lynn to Dr. William D. Gaston, Jr. (presently living in
>Arizona), was that, "Ray Stanford has the most honest
>unconscious I have ever dealt with!" Interpret that as you like.

>But, now, List friends, I'm still waiting for Dick to tell us
>that he sought a second, outside, opinion on the claimed
>analysis error. He avoids that issue, which is far easier to
>respond to than to dig up my notes after all these years that he
>complained I never showed him, as if I owed him such a favor.

><snip>

>>Over a week ago I asked him to join me in a
>>statement on UFO Updates which would amount to a truce. We would
>>jointly recommend that everyone read his book and then my
>>rebuttal of it and make up their own minds. He replied that he
>>would have to think about it, and has said nothing more. He did
>>make excuses about having to install new computer lines, but
>>that hasn't stopped him from commenting on UFO Updates on
>>numerous occasions since my proposed joint statement.

>When I called Dick's deception or distortion of fact in claiming
>to have seen 'physics notebooks' at my place (all he saw were a
>few photos in plastic sleeves) and his false claim that I had no
>documentation of Hynek's support of my statement by him in the
>book that the silica-zinc-iron 'mistake' could not have been
>made, he suggested a cease fire! Since in every case he was the
>aggressor who fired first, it looked a bit like a desperate
>request made because he knew I was winning.

>For an aggressor to beg a cease fire looks a lot like
>desperation. I refuse to let Hall talk me into what amounts to a
>gag order. I reserve my right to respond to the comments of
>anyone who addresses matters related to me or my knowledge, on
>this List or anywhere, if permitted.

>But, if Dick Hall really wants a cease fire between us
>personally, all he needs do to get it from me is to cease firing
>at me every time someone praises by writings or my research into
>UFOs, as he did today.

>Who asked for Hall's opinions on me today when Mac Tonnies and
>Terry Groff praised my Socorro book and Chris Lambright
>commented on my personal friendship and integrity? I didn't
>notice that any one of them addressed Hall personally.

>It's that simple, Dick, cease the unprovoked attacks! Quit
>crying like a baby every time someone praises my book on
>Socorro. Some persons have written me saying, in effect,
>"Methinks he protests too much!"  As an old friend in other
>ufological matters, I advise you show your better face, the one
>most of us can admire for good work over many years. Let us
>simply agree to differ on this, without hostilities.

>I think we both have better things to worry about and to
>contribute to this List. If you want a cease fire, just quit
>firing at me. It's really that simple, Dick. I have better
>things to do with my life, and I suspect you do, too.


Ray,

You were the only one paranoid enough to think that there was a
cover-up, pure and simple. I had (and have) no reason to look
for other interpretations, and as I said you had ample time to
protest or make some sort of case, which you didn't, so please
stop harping on that.

I really don't have the time to address your wondrous array of
persiflage and self-serving distortions in this message. Your
failure to agree to a very reasonable "cease fire" (which you
have the gall to say is an admission of "losing") really takes
the cake. All it contained was a recommendation for people to
read both sides of the story and make up their own minds. Why
would you fear that? Gag order? You have a wonderful
imagination!

You called me a liar for saying you had shown me notebooks re:
propulsion physics; now you admit that you did but put a spin on
it to cover your rear. You called me a knowing participant in a
cover-up, which you now weasel sideways about.

And did you write your channeling book about Fatima  as an 18-
year-old? And why, if you considered the "messages" to be self-
generated crap (what else can you honestly call them), did you
take out an ad in the National Enquirer in  1975 (how old were
you in 1975?) selling tape cassettes of messages from the
"Source"?

Your excuses simply won't wash, Ray, and you know it. If you
keep up your insulting myths about me you will only drive me to
document what I am saying more completely, and I have the files
to do so.


  - Dick








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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Sep > Sep 17

                Re: UK UFO Magazine's Graham Birdsall Suffers

From: Louise A. Lowry <ShnSassy1@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 18:23:48 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 07:48:27 -0400
Subject: Re: UK UFO Magazine's Graham Birdsall Suffers


>From: A. J. Gevaerd - Revista UFO <gevaerd@ufo.com.br>
>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 10:54:55 -0300
>Subject: UK UFO Magazine's Graham Birdsall Suffers Brain Hemorrhage

>Dear Friends & Colleagues:

>I was informed by Russel Callaghan that last Thursday night
>Graham Birdsall was taken ill at home. It was thought that he
>had suffered a heart attack. He was rushed to hospital were
>doctors carried out tests.


Dear A.J.

Thank you ever so much for keeping us all inform as to what is
happening with Graham. Please keep us updated as to his progress.
Love & Light
Louise


--
World Of The Strange Forum:
http://www.worldofthestrange.com/modules.php?name=Forums
#1 Para-Discussion List: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Para-Discuss/







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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Sep > Sep 17

                     New Westminster UFO Footage Update

From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO <hbccufo@telus.net>
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 17:32:18 -0700
Fwd Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 07:57:16 -0400
Subject: New Westminster UFO Footage Update


New Westminster UFO Footage

Report From HBCC UFO Research
Director: Brian Vike
c. 2003 HBCC UFO

UFO Footage Shot On August 11, 2003 at 6:20 p.m. PST.

I was contacted a while back by a gentleman by the name of Mark
who had told me he had some excellent footage of a UFO, or an
unknown object which he took on August 11, 2003 using his new
JVC mini DV, GR-d90 camcorder.

Mark's wife was the first to take notice of the unusual object.
 She was standing in her kitchen at the time. She moved quickly
onto the deck of the family's home and was surprised, or should
I say shocked to see an unknown object hovering over the trees
close by. She said it flipped over and it turned a bright blood
red. She screamed to her husband to come quick to watch this
strange thing in the sky.

As he arrived on the deck he saw a cigar-shaped object.  He
thought quickly,  ran back into their home and grabbing his
brand new camcorder he scanned the sky for the object and began
filming. Eventually when he lost sight of the object he went
back inside and played the tape over and over.  To his surprise
and everyone else's .. what he saw completely shocked him.

Mark quickly contacted Peter Davenport at the NUFORC in Seattle,
Washington in the United States to file a report and told Peter
what he had caught on tape. Mr. Davenport passed the report onto
myself (HBCC UFO Research) and Gavin McLeod. Gavin made
arrangements with Mark to visit him  and take his report and to
view the video footage.

A couple of days after speaking with Gavin, Mark sent out a
portion of the footage to myself, Gavin McLeod, Mr. Jeff Rense
and a number of others who may have found the Quick Time Player
UFO footage of some interest.  Many did find it interesting but
one  immediately ruled it as "a helium filled foil balloon".

"This material below is from my observations of this tape."

Mark and I corresponded and discussed the video footage. In one
of our telephone conversations he mentioned that he'd not
bothered to slow the tape down. When the running speed of the
footage was slowed down greatly, some interesting things started
to appear. Mark suggested sending me a copy of the original tape
he'd filmed so that I could have a better look at it.   When it
was slowed down it was apparent that this was no ordinary
"helium filled balloon".

As the fellow started filming, the object drops down from the
sky, then enters from the top of the screen.  Mark at this point
has the camcorder zoomed in and catches the object making sharp
turns as it goes down, moving to the right, then back to the
left, drops down, moves right and back to the left, always
making sharp movements downwards until it disappears very
quickly........

Mark was still filming when the object left his view.... however
when the film was seen slowed down .... it was still there. It
had moved rapidly across the sky. One blink and it would be
missed !   Suddenly in the distance one can clearly see it re-
appearing and entering the camera's field of view looking like a
white dot in the sky. As it travels a great distance to the
east, over a good portion of the sky, with a reflection that
could have been caused by the sun ...  it finally disappears.

What it does next is very interesting.  From out of the east
(its position where it disappeared) .. it reappears, still
glistening, and travels west at a steady pace.  At one point it
makes a complete stop.!!!  Then it moves south towards Mark's
position.   When using the Quick Time Player to view his footage
one can notice that Mark zooms in on the object and catches what
looks like an aura surrounding it ... for a short period of
time.  He also films what may be the underside of it, until it
slowly moves away, turning on its side, taking on a clear saucer
shape and  it appears to be discharging a dark unknown
substance.  The strange discharge occurs  twice.  One from the
left side of the object and the other from the right.

Again Mark tries to find the object in the sky but can't seem to
locate it. He zooms back out and finds nothing.  He continues
his search  zooming out and in and for a split second he
captures it once again in the very spot he was searching and
where previously there was nothing.  The camera again picked the
object up and it seemed to come out of nowhere and was gone
again as quickly as it appeared.

Regarding the Quick Time Player internet clip..... I have heard
a number of things about the footage, but not once have I heard
anyone mention the discharge which comes off the object just
after it flattens out and before it disappears from view  (or
when the object is lost due to Mark trying to focus in on it).
If you take a good close look at the internet footage, you will
notice two of these types of discharges , one to it's left and
the other to its right. )

I found it interesting when viewing the footage that the day
before, on August 10, 2003, Mark was filming his family's visit
to the Abbotsford Airshow, which is a major happening every year
and draws aircraft from all over the world.  The video footage
clearly shows an aerial display of known aircraft  taking place
the day before the sighting happened.

One other note I would like to make, which I found to be very
important also, was the remark made by Mark's mother-in-law who
was speaking in her native Romanian tongue as she watched the
object perform in the sky.  She made a comment and Mark
translated for me... "the bottom of it has turned brilliant
bright red".

Conclusion:

1. The object makes extreme sharp maneuvers.

2. The object travels at a great distance and then returns from
the direction it came from.

3. At one point in the video, the object comes to a complete
stop and hovers.

4. The bottom of the object changes it's color to almost a blood
red.

5. The object ejects  a black substance on two occasions.

6. In some parts of the film it travels at an extreme rate of
speed.

7. In one portion of the tape the object looks like it has an
aura around it.

8. There were a number of witnesses to this sighting.

What the object is for sure I am not certain. It was extremely
interesting, extremely puzzling, and who knows what it was.??  I
spent hours viewing the video .. over and over again.... at all
types of speed to try and determine what it might have been ..
all to no avail.   I enjoyed it immensely and found it very
exciting.   With Mark's permission I will be forwarding it on
for further examination.

Mark's video footage is copyright M.M 2003


Brian Vike, Director
HBCC UFO Research
Canadian Toll Free UFO Hotline 1 866 262 1989 - Free call.
Phone/Fax 1 250 845 2189
HBCC UFO Forum Board
http://216.147.50.102/HBCC-UFO/index.php
email: hbccufo@telus.net
Website: http://www3.telus.net/public/wilbur8/hbcc_ufo_research.htm








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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Sep > Sep 17

              Re: Review: Socorro 'Saucer' In A Pentagon Pantry

From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 07:35:22 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 08:46:54 -0400
Subject: Re:  Review: Socorro 'Saucer' In A Pentagon Pantry


>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
>To: ufoupdates@sympatico.ca
>Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 21:01:35 +0000
>Subject: Re: Review: Socorro 'Saucer' In A Pentagon Pantry

>>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker@earthlink.net>
>>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 23:31:03 -0400
>>Subject: Re: Review: Socorro 'Saucer' In A Pentagon Pantry

>>>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
>>>To: ufoupdates@sympatico.ca
>>>Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 20:44:47 +0000
>>>Subject: Re: Review: Socorro 'Saucer' In A Pentagon Pantry

>>>>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker@earthlink.net>
>>>>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>>>Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 14:00:24 -0400
>>>>Subject: Re: Review: Socorro 'Saucer' In A Pentagon Pantry

>>>Over a week ago I asked him to join me in a
>>>statement on UFO Updates which would amount to a truce. We would
>>>jointly recommend that everyone read his book and then my
>>>rebuttal of it and make up their own minds. He replied that he
>>>would have to think about it, and has said nothing more. He did
>>>make excuses about having to install new computer lines, but
>>>that hasn't stopped him from commenting on UFO Updates on
>>>numerous occasions since my proposed joint statement.

I would like to endorse - as emphatically as possible - the
suggestion that this increasingly rancorous and pointless
dispute be put to rest. I would love to wake up in the morning,
turn to my e-mail, and see nothing about Socorro, or at least
about this small and not very crucial aspect of it. I have
longstanding warm relationships with Dick and Ray, who've been
around even longer than I have.

I like and respect both, even knowing of their strong
disagreement about post-Socorro events (it's covered even-
 handedly in my encyclopedia). To the extent that people care at
this late date about what seems an arcane matter long faded from
ufology's collective memory and of no lasting consequence in the
larger picture, they've already read quite enoughto make up
their own minds. Can't we leave it at that?

Guys, for the sake of all of us - and most of all yourselves --
let's drop this. Please.


Jerry Clark









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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Sep > Sep 18

              Re: Review: Socorro 'Saucer' In A Pentagon Pantry

From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 10:21:28 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 11:04:27 -0400
Subject: Re: Review: Socorro 'Saucer' In A Pentagon Pantry


>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 07:35:22 -0500
>Subject: Re: Review: Socorro 'Saucer' In A Pentagon Pantry

>>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
>>To: ufoupdates@sympatico.ca
>>Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 21:01:35 +0000
>>Subject: Re: Review: Socorro 'Saucer' In A Pentagon Pantry

>>>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker@earthlink.net>
>>>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>>Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 23:31:03 -0400
>>>Subject: Re: Review: Socorro 'Saucer' In A Pentagon Pantry

>>>>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
>>>>To: ufoupdates@sympatico.ca
>>>>Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 20:44:47 +0000
>>>>Subject: Re: Review: Socorro 'Saucer' In A Pentagon Pantry
>
>>>>>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker@earthlink.net>
>>>>>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>>>>Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 14:00:24 -0400
>>>>>Subject: Re: Review: Socorro 'Saucer' In A Pentagon Pantry
>
>>>>Over a week ago I asked him to join me in a
>>>>statement on UFO Updates which would amount to a truce. We would
>>>>jointly recommend that everyone read his book and then my
>>>>rebuttal of it and make up their own minds. He replied that he
>>>>would have to think about it, and has said nothing more. He did
>>>>make excuses about having to install new computer lines, but
>>>>that hasn't stopped him from commenting on UFO Updates on
>>>>numerous occasions since my proposed joint statement.

>I would like to endorse - as emphatically as possible - the
>suggestion that this increasingly rancorous and pointless
>dispute be put to rest. I would love to wake up in the morning,
>turn to my e-mail, and see nothing about Socorro, or at least
>about this small and not very crucial aspect of it. I have
>longstanding warm relationships with Dick and Ray, who've been
>around even longer than I have.

>I like and respect both, even knowing of their strong
>disagreement about post-Socorro events (it's covered even-
>handedly in my encyclopedia). To the extent that people care at
>this late date about what seems an arcane matter long faded from
>ufology's collective memory and of no lasting consequence in the
>larger picture, they've already read quite enoughto make up
>their own minds. Can't we leave it at that?

>Guys, for the sake of all of us - and most of all yourselves --
>let's drop this. Please.

...And quickly too! I've been feeling compelled to write an ode
to it, and I think we all want to brake before we get to _that_
cliff edge! <LOL>

Lehmberg@snowhill.com

EXPLORE "AlienViewGroup" at its HostPros URL.
http://www.alienview.net


JOHN FORD RESTORATION FUND -- John will be released eventually.
He'll need a tax free cash stake to get on his feet. Let's put
one together for him; the bigger it is -- the more attention he
gets. It could have been you. E-mail for detail. $350.00 pledged
-- $200.00 collected!

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see
from afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, scourged by
the scabrously specious scurrilous.








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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Sep > Sep 18

              Re: Review: Socorro 'Saucer' In A Pentagon Pantry

From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 12:33:50 -0300
Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 11:08:24 -0400
Subject: Re: Review: Socorro 'Saucer' In A Pentagon Pantry


>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
>To: ufoupdates@sympatico.ca
>Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 20:26:33 +0000
>Subject: Re: Review: Socorro 'Saucer' In A Pentagon Pantry

>>From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 16:50:19 -0700 (PDT)
>>Subject: Re: Review: Socorro 'Saucer' In A Pentagon Pantry

>>>From: James Oberg <jamesoberg@houston.rr.com>
>>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>>>Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 16:45:49 -0500
>>>Subject: Re: Review: Socorro 'Saucer' In A Pentagon Pantry

>><snip>

>>>I should dig out my 1970's era notes taken when I was talking by
>>>phone with Tom Sciacca about the claims of an admitted (by
>>>Frankel) - then recanted - test proving extraterrestrial nature
>>>of the sample.

>>Not once in "Socorro 'Saucer'" does Stanford claim that the test
>>results "proved" an ET origin for the metal samples given to
>>Goddard.  He says, simply, that analysis revealed an unusual
>>zinc-iron alloy that would have ideal for landing gear (from
>>which the samples were assumed to have been scraped).

>>While this is intriguing, it's not "proof," and Stanford never
>>says it is.

>To Don Ledger: This recantation was only Stanford's claim, not
>a proven reality.


Hi Dick,

I was referring to the statement, and now part ofthis, because
of the quote by JimO,

>>I should dig out my 1970's era notes taken when I was talking by
>>phone with Tom Sciacca about the claims of an admitted (by
>>Frankel) - then recanted - test proving extraterrestrial nature
>>of the sample.

That's two that say Frankel recanted. I'd like to know why. And
where did the samples go?

Regardless of who's right or wrong, I bristle at the implication
that these samples were a non-starter and Frankel was some poor,
put-upon scientist at NASA being badgered by one of the great
unwashed, UFO nuts out here in the real world.

I've been there as have many others. It's a dodge. You know
that, Jim knows it and so do most of us.

Frankel strikes me as one who could not take confrontation-and
possibly the reason why he recanted - you can fill in the blanks
here - and the reason why he wouldn't talk to Ray.


Best,

Don Ledger







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   Sep > Sep 18

               Re: UK UFO Magazine's Graham Birdsall - Yturria

From: Santiago Yturria <syturria@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 13:46:53 EDT
Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 11:14:06 -0400
Subject: Re: UK UFO Magazine's Graham Birdsall - Yturria


>From: A. J. Gevaerd - Revista UFO <gevaerd@ufo.com.br>
>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 10:54:55 -0300
>Subject: UK UFO Magazine's Graham Birdsall Suffers Brain Hemorrhage

>Dear Friends & Colleagues:

>I was informed by Russel Callaghan that last Thursday night
>Graham Birdsall was taken ill at home. It was thought that he
>had suffered a heart attack. He was rushed to hospital were
>doctors carried out tests.


Dear Ademar,

What terrible news of Graham's health problem and needdless to
say how sad and shocked I am. Graham Birdsall is a dear friend
of mine as well as his family from whom I have always received
warm affection all these years.

I sincerely hope that all our prayers for Graham's recovery will
succeed and we have again, with us, this valuable man for the
ufologic community.


Sincerely,

Santiago Yturria
Mexico






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   Sep > Sep 18

                       Re: Webmasters Beware! - Hatch

From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 11:34:30 -0700
Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 11:15:49 -0400
Subject: Re: Webmasters Beware! - Hatch


>From: John Hayes <webmaster@ufoinfo.com>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 21:06:01 +0100
>Subject: Re: Webmasters Beware!

>>From: Larry Hatch <larry@LARRYHATCH.NET>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>>Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 21:53:15 -0700
>>Subject: Webmasters Beware!

>>If you have a domain name registered anywhere, be
>>absolutely sure to check your Expiration Date! Contact your
>>domain registrar (Network Solutions etc..) and make sure
>>this is crystal clear. I recommend automatic renewal via
>>credit card. Be sure your Registrar has your latest CCard
>>expiration date too!

>Hi Larry, List,

>In connection to this I recently had an e-mail from Network
>Solutions regarding ICANN requirements. The relevant part:

>"The Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN)
>is the non-profit corporation responsible for accrediting domain
>name registration providers. ICANN requires domain name
>registration customers to keep their WHOIS contact information
>current. ICANN mandates that outdated contact information can be
>grounds for domain name cancellation."

>On checking my entry I had a warning notice that my credit card
>had expired (quickly updated) and a few other details were not
>how they looked the last time I checked. A look at the last
>sentence in the ICANN requirements should encourage everyone
>with a domain to check their details.


Hi John:

I had the same exact experience! So easy to forget. I got a
renewal credit card, making my old one invalid. Only a notice
from NS reminded me to check. Its no small matter.

The same would apply if you change email addresses. A valid
email address is the _only_ way the Registrar has of
contacting/warning you. They need an email address that will get
thru to you, even if your website host goes down!


Best

- Larry






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   Sep > Sep 18

              Re: New Westminster UFO Footage Update - Stanford

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker@earthlink.net>
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 15:39:12 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 12:01:09 -0400
Subject: Re: New Westminster UFO Footage Update - Stanford


>From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO <hbccufo@telus.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 17:32:18 -0700
>Subject: New Westminster UFO Footage Update

>New Westminster UFO Footage

>Report From HBCC UFO Research
>Director: Brian Vike
>c. 2003 HBCC UFO

>UFO Footage Shot On August 11, 2003 at 6:20 p.m. PST.

<snip>

>One other note I would like to make, which I found to be very
>important also, was the remark made by Mark's mother-in-law who
>was speaking in her native Romanian tongue as she watched the
>object perform in the sky. She made a comment and Mark
>translated for me... "the bottom of it has turned brilliant
>bright red".

>Conclusion:

>1. The object makes extreme sharp maneuvers.

>2. The object travels at a great distance and then returns from
>the direction it came from.

>3. At one point in the video, the object comes to a complete
>stop and hovers.

>4. The bottom of the object changes it's color to almost a blood
>red.

>5. The object ejects a black substance on two occasions.

>6. In some parts of the film it travels at an extreme rate of
>speed.

>7. In one portion of the tape the object looks like it has an
>aura around it.

>8. There were a number of witnesses to this sighting.

Taking Jerry Clark's advice to get on to more pertinent and
productive subjects than the Hall-Stanford affair:

In my opinion, Brian Vike is quite correct in asserting the
importance of this video. The object involved displays some very
interesting and distinct phenomena (several of which were
described in Brian's post) that are unique to genuine UFOs, such
as recorded in movies obtained from 1977 through much more
recent years by my project team and by me with other witnesses.

The distinct phenomena to which I refer are present only in
films, videos, and still photographs of genuinely anomalous
'UFO' type objects-phenomena, and are never present in fake
films, videos, or still photos such as those produced by Billy
Meier, Ed Walters, Daniel W. Fry, George Adamski, Buck Nelson,
and others.

Good quality films of real UFOs show far stranger things than
what we see in the fake ones.

So, I encourage all of you seriously interested in UFO physics,
to please look carefully and long at that Westminster UFO video
footage, including frame-by-frame, forward and backward. You
will be amazed. There you have for study, such real UFO
phenomena as will ultimately prove propulsion-diagnostic, and
some of the phenomena recorded are strange beyond the wildest
dreams of the fake UFO model makers and film fakers such as
those mentioned above. Try to think analytically about what you
see in that video.

While on the subject of such important phenomena associated with
the real 'UFO's and never found in fakes, let me discuss the
video taken in daylight at around 7:00 P.M. on July 6, 1989, by
Yasuhiko Hazamaki, in Hakui city, Kanazawa Prefecture, Japan.
The thing filmed has a strong resemblance to the object recorded
in three photographs taken at 2:45 P.M., on January 2, 1975, in
Kauai, Hawaii, by Michael Lindstrom after it was noticed by his
wife.

Summaries of both cases may be found in Dick Hall's voluminous
reference, The UFO Evidence, Volume II (Subtitled, A Thirty-Year
Report.), published by Scarecrow Press, Inc., 2001. Despite the
fact that in Hall's write-up on the Hawaiian case, he says the
Kanazawa, Japan, case was on July 7, 1989, while his actual
write-up on that case lists it as having been on July 6 (instead
of the seventh), 1989, I recommend Dick's book to all who want a
handy reference to thirty years of UFO events.

Anyhow, my wife, Sheila, and I were shown the original Hazamaki
video as well as a higher-contrast copy of it by Bruce Maccabee
within a matter of weeks (if not just days) after they came into
Maccabee's hands. I was thrilled because it showed some of the
phenomena with which I was familiar from studying my project's
own daylight, color movies, and which I knew (due to those
studies) to be specific and unique to genuine UFO optical
images, and which, as I had commented to many persons, are
totally absent from Ed Walter's Gulf Breeze fakes. I told Bruce
that and expressed, therefore, confidence in the authenticity of
the Hazamaki video.

Then, Bruce told Sheila and me that he had taken the Hazamaki
video to, "a government photo lab so secret I can't tell you
what lab it was or where it is located", and then he intrigued
us by adding, "..and when the guys at the lab studied the video,
they were so thrilled and excited, they were doing cart-wheels!"
-- I think he meant that figuratively rather than literally, but
who knows. :)

Immediately, I saw my chance and asked Bruce wryly, "Tell me,
Bruce, did you ever take any of Ed Walter's photos or videos to
that important, secret government lab, and, if so, how did they
react to those - and if you didn't take them there, why not?"

The Gulf Breeze-promoting physicist flashed a rather sheepish
grin, replied, "No. Never did.", and immediately changed the
subject. I didn't push the question of why he had not done so,
because it seemed clear to me that if he really considered
Walter's films important, he would have taken them to the
government lab, likewise. When Sheila and I discussed it
afterward, we both felt that Bruce might have been embarrassed
to have taken such dubious things to such an important
government photo lab in seriousness (as he had done with the
Japanese video). Yes, we suspect Bruce either realized or
seriously suspected that Ed Walters photos and films of several
'UFOs' are fake, despite his protests and financial
compensations from Ed, to the contrary.

But, I leave it to the reader to finally decide for himself or
herself why Maccabee took the Hazamaki video for the government
to examine, but did not take Ed Walter's productions there.

Or maybe, list member Bruce, you can now enlighten us. :) But,
personally, I will take your answer with a 'grain of salt' as
big as the large chunk(s) of money you admit receiving from Ed
Walters. Or, maybe Ed Walters forbade you from doing so? :)

Anyhow, the three Lindstrom photos and the Hazamaki video both
record a specific type of phenomenon that should be watched-for
elsewhere and studied for what the phenomenon might tell us
about the physical nature of UFOs and their associated optical
effects. From my project's study of our own movie films
recording the phenomenon, I feel we are looking at an optical
phenomenon that can geometrically warp or refract an object's
true image into any one of a variety of, or else into a series
of, geometric shapes (independent of any camera iris shape),
which shapes should not be mistaken for the three-dimensional
shape of the solid object, per se.

Back to the New Westminster video, the object changes its
apparent shape in ways that seemingly cannot be accounted for by
any single physical, rigid structure unaltered by optics. I
suggest we examine the possibly that this 'shape change' (in
instances not accountable by a singular shape) may be due to
optics, rather than by a single shape or a physical object
changing its external structure.

In short: There are photos, movie films, and videos taken all
over the world by many different persons, that contain the
'right stuff' to be valuable in scientific UFO studies; and
there are photos, movie films, and videos allegedly taken of
UFOs that don't have the 'right stuff', have the 'wrong stuff',
and that will pay no scientific dividends in understanding real
UFO physics.

All too many persons have only concerned themselves about any
alleged UFO film only to the point of saying whether what's
shown is artifact, fake, or genuine. In my opinion, that should
be only the beginning. Any high-resolution UFO film or video
should then be intensely studied for clues to possibly exotic
physics that might be involved. Otherwise, UFO research will
remain the impotent demi-science it has been for over half a
century.

If we are to become a part of mainstream science, such studies
of films and other instrumented recordings, along with their
careful, patient analysis, description, and publication in
refereed scientific journals are presently the only way to get
there. I think it not unreasonable to believe that when the
evidence involved is of sufficient quality and the analysis
sufficiently rigorous and intelligently presented, the paper(s)
will make the grade and get into mainstream science journals.


Ray Stanford

"You know my method. It is founded upon the observance of
trifles." -- Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery








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   Sep > Sep 18

                          Re: Photo Info? - Lemire

From: Todd Lemire <tlemire@comcast.net>
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 21:41:13 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 12:03:37 -0400
Subject: Re: Photo Info? - Lemire


>From: Vicente-Juan Ballester Olmos <ballesterolmos@yahoo.es>
>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
>Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 16:01:31 +0200 (CEST)
>Subject: Photo Info?

>In an on-line feature article at the 'Detroit News' web site:

>http://www.detnews.com/history/ufo/ufo.htm

>and if you click on 'Click for More Photos', you will see ten
>images. If someone is aware of the date, witness name and
>details of photograph #5 (UFO landed on Harrick Road, near
>Clare, MI), I will appreciate receiving the information.


V-J,

Here's what information I have on this photo which appeared on
back of a xerox copy that was mailed to a researcher here in
Michigan named Jeff Westover. The photograph was taken  by
Theodore Gladwell Jr. who in 1971 was living in Roseville,
Michigan.  The Detroit News negatives previous to 1984 are now
at the Reuther Library on WSU Campus. It also lists an address
for Gladwell as of 1971 as well as a phone number.

More can be found about this sighting here at:

http://www.michiganufos.com/1970.html#balls

Hope this helps,
Todd Lemire
http://www.michiganufos.com









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   Sep > Sep 18

              Re: New Westminster UFO Footage Update - Balaskas

From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 23:03:00 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 12:04:56 -0400
Subject: Re: New Westminster UFO Footage Update - Balaskas


>From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO <hbccufo@telus.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 17:32:18 -0700
>Subject: New Westminster UFO Footage Update

<snip>

>Mark's wife was the first to take notice of the unusual object.
>She was standing in her kitchen at the time. She moved quickly
>onto the deck of the family's home and was surprised, or should
>I say shocked to see an unknown object hovering over the trees
>close by. She said it flipped over and it turned a bright blood
>red. She screamed to her husband to come quick to watch this
>strange thing in the sky.

<snip>

If Mark's wife was standing in the kitchen, she would be able
to clearly see objects low in the sky close to the horizon and
not something flying low over the house. Even after she moved
quickly to see the object from outdoors, it was "hovering over
the trees CLOSE BY". If we can assume from this statement that
the object was small in size compared to the trees nearby, since
it did not move very fast (initially at least), I can say that it
accurately describes the appearance and motion of the disk shaped
helium filled "Get Well" foil balloon my 7 year old nephew
released in our backyard by the tree in Orleans which I took
pictures of with my digital camera from our deck! Just look at
the pictures I sent to you, Jeff Rense, Whitley Strieber and
others.

>One other note I would like to make, which I found to be very
>important also, was the remark made by Mark's mother-in-law who
>was speaking in her native Romanian tongue as she watched the
>object perform in the sky.  She made a comment and Mark
>translated for me... "the bottom of it has turned brilliant
>bright red".

<snip>

Some of these flying saucer shaped helium filled foil balloon,
which one can buy for a few dollars in Canada at gift or party
shops, are printed only on one side. I have seen such balloons
printed with a large red Valentine's Day heart or with the red
Canadian Maple Leaf flag. The design printed on these balloons
is not apparent when seen from a distance more than a few meters,
especially when it's mirror like surface is reflecting the light
of the Sun. This then can account for Mark's mother-on-law
comment that "the BOTTOM of it has turned brilliant BRIGHT RED".

>1. The object makes extreme sharp maneuvers.

Our disk shaped helium balloon made such sharp maneuvers after it
was released from the wind eddies around the tree close to the
ground and later from the light but changing wind gusts higher up
in the sky. Nothing that would rule out a balloon here.

>2. The object travels at a great distance and then returns from
>the direction it came from.

How can you conclude this for sure Brian simply from viewing a
video taken by Mark when he was frequently zooming in and out on
this object with his video camera?

>3. At one point in the video, the object comes to a complete
>stop and hovers.

When there are no clouds in the frames with the object which one
can use for reference purposes, how can you really tell that this
object, by now very far away, did indeed come to a complete stop
and hover at one point in the video?

>4. The bottom of the object changes it's color to almost a blood
>red.

See my comments earlier.

>5. The object ejects a black substance on two occasions.

I noticed a few such "ejections" in a frame by frame examination
of Mark's video. One particulary large "ejection" nearly as big
as the object itself is seen in a single frame after Mark is
heard to say "that's it". Since these "ejections" are seen in
only single frames, they cannot be real (other than video camera
artifacts) since something falling would also be seen in later
frames further and further away from the object.

>6. In some parts of the film it travels at an extreme rate of
>speed.

Have you ever looked through a hand held telescope or powerful
binoculars at a stationary bright star or distant slow moving
airplane? If you were to record what you saw like Mark did with
his video camera with the zoom feature, the results would suggest
that your stationary bright star or distant slow moving airplane
did indeed travel at an extreme rate of speed "in some parts of
the film [video]". Of course, if one does not know just how big
or how far the object was, there is no way to accurately tell how
fast it was moving.

>7. In one portion of the tape the object looks like it has an
>aura around it.

The disk shaped helium filled balloons that are sold here have
flat but thin protruding seams all around theie edges. Maybe this
is the "aura" that is seen in the zoomed in (and not in focus?)
images of the object in Mark's video.

>8. There were a number of witnesses to this sighting.

The disk shaped balloon which my nephew released from Orleans, a
residential neighbourhood with about the same population as New
Westminster, was also seen by my other nephew (9), niece (3),
and two sisters. Although the balloon was about half a meter in
size, its shiny appearance and slow initial rate of climb would
have made it easy to spot by others who were outdoors during a
similar sunny day as in the New Westminster video. Of course,
the people in Orleans would not likely confuse our balloon for a
UFO and Mark himself originally thought his object was a balloon
too. One's first guess is often the correct one but if one
studies a common everyday sight like a balloon in flight very
carefully and long enough, you can find many unusual things that
may suggest otherwise...

>What the object is for sure I am not certain. It was extremely
>interesting, extremely puzzling, and who knows what it was.??  I
>spent hours viewing the video .. over and over again.... at all
>types of speed to try and determine what it might have been ..
>all to no avail.   I enjoyed it immensely and found it very
>exciting.   With Mark's permission I will be forwarding it on
>for further examination.

<snip>

Our experiment which produced a surprisingly similar looking
"UFO" and a frame by frame re-examination of Mark's video now on
Jeff Renses' web site has failed to convince me that the object
was something other than a balloon - something that is known to
exist and which is sometimes seen in the skies over cities. That
said, I would be thrilled if an expert evaluation of Mark's
video concludes otherwises and it remains an "unidentified"
flying object (and if the object was an E.T. spacecraft trying
out some of those tumbling manouvers it saw at the Abbotsford
Airshow a day earlier, I would also feel sorry for our sick and
disoriented visitors).


Nick Balaskas

Physics and Astronomy
York University








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   Sep > Sep 18

                    President Reagan's Beliefs About UFOs

From: Ken Kelly <elprospero@yahoo.com>
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 21:51:03 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 12:09:47 -0400
Subject: President Reagan's Beliefs About UFOs


List:

President and Mrs. Reagan were both thorough believers in the
material reality of 'flying saucers'. This was related to me
three or four times by my then best friend, Coral Lorenzen. I
have no physical record of what Coral said over the telephone,
but when President Reagan was first elected to that office, I
remember her saying more than once "Now we have a friend in the
White House."

That the Reagans were long-time believers is documented in Jim
Brochu's 'Lucy in the Afternoon: An Intimate Memoir of Lucille
Ball'.

To quote Ms. Ball's words on page 125:

"...we couldn't eat until two of the other guests arrived, and
they were almost an hour late. The tardy two were Ron and Nancy
Reagan... They were all out of breath and so excited and said
they couldn't't help being late because of what happened. Are
you ready? They saw a UFO and stopped to watch it. After he was
elected president, I kept thinking about that night, and
wondered if he'd have still won if he told everybody that he'd
seen a flying saucer."


I will look for other information on this subject in my files.







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   Sep > Sep 18

                     Re: The Belzer Connection - Warren

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren@pacbell.net>
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 08:43:18 -0700
Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 12:12:04 -0400
Subject: Re: The Belzer Connection - Warren


>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
>Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 12:10:00 -0400
>Subject: Re: The Belzer Connection

>>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren@pacbell.net>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>>Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 11:42:14 -0700
>>Subject: The Belzer Coneection

>>I have to say that I have been completely "stumped" by the Sci-Fi
>>Channel's regression of their public support in regards to serious
>>investigation of the UFO phenomenon, by airing shows such as
>>"The Belzer Connection." (As well as some of the other bilge that
>>appears on Tuesday nights).

>>If they think that surrounding notables in the field of Ufology
>>- such as Stan Friedman no less - with comedians such as Al
>>Franken, who seemed more interested in Stan's eyebrows, then the
>>subject at hand, is in anyway contributing in a positive manner
>to the field of Ufology, they really need to wake up and smell
>>the coffee!

>>"The Belzer Connection" in my humble opinion seemed to be a copy
>>of TNN's "The Conspiracy Zone," hosted by Saturday Night
>>illumni, Kevin Nealon; it had/has the same format i.e., some
>>notables in the field and some comedians in front of a live
>>audience; the concern apparently to keep the audience laughing.

>>On the flip side, if you go to one of the attributes of "The
>>Sci-Fi channel... you'll be impressed with the goals mentioned
>>at:

>>http://www.freedomofinfo.org/

>>There, in the mission statement it reads, "Achieving
>>scientific, congressional and media credibility for the study of
>>unexplained aerial phenomena while working for the release of
>>official information and physical evidence." It further states
>>that the goals are:

>>*Scientific Credibility

>>*Congressional Interest and Action

>>*Serious Media Coverage

>>*Case Investigations and FOIA Requests.

>>These of course are very noble ideals and are welcomed to the
>>field; however one has to wonder how these can be accomplished
>>when the very same entity that helped form CFI produces "drivel"
>>such as that of the "Belzer Connection." Promoting and airing
>>such shows that make light of Ufology, does not conform to
>>achieving the afore mentioned goals - in fact it does much harm!

>>The folks at Sci-Fi need to realize they can't have it both
>>ways. Either focus on making a buck and keep to their name-sake,
>>i.e., science fiction, and apparently comedy; staying out of
>>Ufology altogether, or stay focused on the afore mentioned goals
>>of CFI and stop mixing the two with each other!

>>Regards,

>>Frank Warren

>(Not one word snipped!)

>Well said, Frank. But don't hold your breath while you wait for
>them to do something about it. The folks at the Sci-Fi channel
>talk a good game, but what they actually deliver is much more
>pedestrian than one would anticipate even from media
>professionals.

Unfortunately, I'll have to agree.

>Several months ago I bitched about the exact same thing when
>they aired that awful series of UFO programs. Programming that
>propagated some of the worst, most convoluted theories about
>UFOs while simultaneously highlighting the most sensational and
>'way out' (even for ufology,) aspects of the phenomenon that
>anyone could conceive of.

Yes, I rememeber your comments.

>If you recall the response I received to my questions and
>criticism about it... they blamed it on the individual
>producers! They side-stepped valid criticism by shifting the
>weight/responsibility.

Yes . . . that's kin to a restaurant owner "blaming the cook" for
serving bad food.

>Bottom line; the Sci-Fi channel says one thing but does another.>

>I don't know, what does that kind of behavior/pattern reveal to
>you about them? How much do they really care?

It must give fuel to the conspiratorial mind.

>Bob Dylan once intoned, "... you've got serve somebody." I am
>convinced that in spite of a thin veneer of 'public service'
>that they project, the real agenda is, and has always been, to
>put asses in the seats at show time. After all is said and done,
>they are in 'show business.' Can't blame a dog for chasing cats.

Again, unfortunately, I concur.

>Look at the ratings for 'Taken'. Their methods, *disingenuous
>and self-serving though they may be, works for them. Don't blame
>these poor yuppies for operating in moral and ethical 'grey
>areas' - it's what they learned was 'acceptable behavior' at
>those EST meetings they all attended in the eighties.

>I got over my disappointment, Frank. Know how? I stopped
>expecting the people at the Sci-Fi channel to actually live up
>to the hype they've been feeding us. But hey, be sure to watch
>the upcoming "Kecksburg" special! They took all the valuable and
>rare resources that they brought to the table and sank it into
>that iffy, leaky basket of a case because Stan Gordon was at the
>right place at the right time.

I do feel that given "all the choices" available to Sci-Fi, they
could have excercised better judgement in terms of the first case
they chose to spend their energies on; however, I don't have a
problem per se with the case in general, as long as the work is
done properly; that said, pouring a gallon of "good water" in a
"tainted well" only squanders the good water.

>That, or he knew the right people at the Sci-Fi channel.

>No matter. They are going to do what they are going to do,
>Frank. Change your expectations and your disappointment will
>vanish. Check it and see. ;)>

My expectations certainly have diminished as time goes by with
airings such as the like of the "Belzer Connection," John, but
being the die-hard optimist, I'm still keeping my fingers
crossed.


Cheers,

Frank









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   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Sep > Sep 18

                     Re: The Belzer Connection - Warren

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren@pacbell.net>
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 08:44:39 -0700
Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 12:14:01 -0400
Subject: Re: The Belzer Connection - Warren


>From: Bill Weber <wweber1@sc.rr.com>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 00:24:10 -0400
>Subject: Re: The Belzer Connection

>>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
>>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
>>Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 12:10:00 -0400
>>Subject: Re: The Belzer Connection

>>>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren@pacbell.net>
>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>>>Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 11:42:14 -0700
>>>Subject: The Belzer Coneection

>>>Good Day Fellow Listerians,

>>>I have to say that I have been completely "stumped" by the Sci-Fi
>>>Channel's regression of their public support in regards to serious
>>>investigation of the UFO phenomenon, by airing shows such as
>>>"The Belzer Connection." (As well as some of the other bilge that
>>>appears on Tuesday nights).

>>>If they think that surrounding notables in the field of Ufology
>>>- such as Stan Friedman no less - with comedians such as Al
>>>Franken, who seemed more interested in Stan's eyebrows, then the
>>>subject at hand, is in anyway contributing in a positive manner

>Hi, Guys,

Hi Bill

>I happened to catch a promo for the show in which the sound-bite
>featured Franken, a comedian I otherwise think highly of, make
>some tired remark about "stopping the anal probes" - to the
>delight of the studio audience.>>

That particular "sound-bite" pretty much summarized Franken's
behavior throughout the show.

>While I had no illusions about either the progression or
>television's treatment of abduction research, I had higher hopes
>for the development of comedy in general. You can tell me that
>the SciFi Channel isn't really interested in fostering
>understanding of abduction accounts, but don't tell me there are
>comedians out there still telling anal probe jokes.

>Now _that's_ disappointing news.

I don't have a problem with the SCI-FI Channel making light of
Ufology, or anything else for that matter... my problem is them
"announcing their intent to do just the opposite." To publicize
the various noble goals as mentioned in my previous post, and
then air such shows as "The Belzer Connection" is akin to
"shooting oneself in the foot!" They don't seem to understand
that they can't have it both ways.


Regards,

Frank









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   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Sep > Sep 18

                          Filer's Files #38 -- 2003

From: George A. Filer <Majorstar@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 12:49:11 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 12:26:17 -0400
Subject: Filer's Files #38 -- 2003


Filer's Files #38 -- 2003 Skywatch Investigations.
George A. Filer, Director Mutual UFO Network Eastern
September 17, 2003

Webmaster: Chuck Warren

My website is at:

http://www.georgefiler.com/ ]www.GeorgeFiler.com/


Sponsored by: [ http://www.filer.Isotonix.com/


DOUBLE TROUBLE - UFO SIGHTINGS HIGHEST IN A YEAR

The purpose of these files is to report the UFO eyewitness and
photo/video evidence that occurs on a daily basis around the
world and in space. This week's files investigate: Double
trouble from Hurricane "Isabel" and Yellowstone Super-Volcano
Threatens. Venus was habitable for billions of years, Maine -
 multiple flashing lights, New York - large disk shaped object
over NYC, New Jersey - light in orbit around a larger light, Fl
orida - three lights in triangle with the Titan 4 rocket,
Tennessee - disc sjhaped video, Ohio - flying triangle,
Wisconsin - bright white light moving faster than a jet,
Louisiana - strange lights confirmed, California - disk that
stood still, Washington - red cylinders and lights, Canada -
 large increase in sightings and abduction, England - silver
cigar, Netherlands - black object, Croatia - photos of two UFOs
also cigar seen, and in Jordan - a strong strange light passed
above my car. Chilean Air Force general chases UFO in his F-5
fighter.

DOUBLE TROUBLE - HURRICANES BOIL AND VOLCANO MAY ERUPT

According to the National Hurricane Center "Isabel" is dangerous
and remains just below category 3 strength with maximum
sustained winds recently reported by Air Force reserve hurricane
hunter aircraft near 105 mph with higher gusts. This makes
"Isabel" a category 2 hurricane. Fluctuations in strength are
possible during the next several days. It is thought "Isabel" is
headed for the East Coast a nd me.

YELLOWSTONE SUPER-VOLCANO THREAT - Dr. Bruce Cornet and others
are warning that an eruption of a volcano could occur.
Volcanologists calculate that in parts of Yellowstone the ground
has risen over seventy centimeters this century, and parts of
the park are now off limits to tourists. Scientists have
revealed that Yellowstone Park has been on a regular eruption
cycle of 600,000 years. The last eruption was 640,000 years
ago=E2=C7=A6so the next is overdue. The next eruption could be 2,500
times the si ze of the 1980 Mount St. Helens eruption. Fijsh are
floating dead in the streams, and the lake is closed. There is a
very strong smell of sulfur that is often a sign of the
impending eruption of a volcano. Animals are migrating out of
the area and new geysers and mud pots are springing up daily.
Ground temperature often reaches 200 degrees and earthquakes are
occurring regularly. [
http://www.solcomhouse.com/yellowstone.htm
]http://www.solcomhouse.com/yellowstone.htm

VENUS - HABITABLE FOR BILLIONS OF YEARS (WOMEN ARE FROM VENUS?)

The hellish climate of Venus may have arisen far more recently
than previously supposed, suggests new research. If so, pleasant
Earth-like conditions probably persisted for two billion years
after the planet's birth - plenty of time for life to have
developed. Venus is virtually the same size as Earth and, on
average, is our nearest neighbor. Today, its atmospheric
temperatures are hot enough to melt lead and concentrated
sulfuric acid continuously drizzles dow n from thick sulphurous
clouds that block outj the Sun. But, the planet once had a
climate similar to Earth's and vast oceans of water. Planetary
scientists agree that period ended when Venus lost its water due
to a runaway greenhouse effect.

The best estimate, calculated by Jeffrey Kargel, of the US
Geological Survey, was this happened four billion years ago.
However, new work by David Grinspoon, at the Southwest Research
Institute in Boulder, Colorado, suggests the momentous
transition may have occurred much later. Clouds reflect sunlight
back to space and therefore cool a planet's surface, and
Grinspoon's preliminary calculations indicate that the effect
can be dramatic -- keeping the atmosphere 100 Kelvin cooler than
without them. Grinspojon says the difference could mean that
oceans and pleasant temperatures may have persisted on Venus for
at least two billion years. This also suggests that another
global transformation on Venus about 700 million years ago, in
which the whole planet's surface appears to have melt ed and
reformed, may actually have been a continuation of the same
greenhouse warming that dried out the planet. Once the water was
lost, Grinspoon says, plate tectonics would have stopped
completely, and with it the most efficienjt way for the planet
to shed its internal heat. This could have led to a buildup that
eventually caused the whole crust to melt and then reform. If
this analysis is right, it means that the "habitable zone" for
planets around other stars may be much wider than has been
assumed, since Venus h ad been thought to be far outside it.
Grinspoon presented his work at the American Astronomical
Society's Division for Planetary Sciences Meeting. Thanks to
David L Chandler, Monterey

MAINE MULTIPLE FLASHING LIGHTS OVER A LONG PERIOD

CARRABASSET VALLEY -- Three hikers decided to take the half mile
hike up to North Horn to watch the sunset at the Bigelow
Preserve on September 6, 2003. In the northeast a flash of light
caught their eyes at 8:30 PM. Flashes got more frequent and they
all saw them 10 to15 miles out against the shadows of the next
ridgeline. The random flashes were very bright alternating
between blue/white and orange. At first, they thought they were
explosions from military testing but this was ruled out knowing
that the jfire risk was too high. The lights most certainly were
not planes or flares as the flashes varied in intensity. The
flashes were roughly over the Appalachian Trail. The witness
states, "Among the flashes we could make out a red antennae like
object that was not flashing, but glowing." My two friends
thought they also saw small objects in the sky being illuminated
by the brighter flashes. After 15 minutes or so we were more
than a little freaked out and decided to make the half-mile
descent back to camp. Thjanks to Peter Davenport [
www.nuforc.org ]NUFORC

NEW YORK - LARGE DISK SHAPED OBJECT OVER MANHATTEN

BROOKLYN -- On September 8, 2003, at 10:35 PM, a large disc was
seen moving at a moderate speed across the sky above lower
Manhattan. The b ody of the craft had a very dim luminescent
glow and a small flashing light at the left end. The craft was
flattish, but with a curvature on top, like an upside down
dinner plate. It seems to be flying, near the Brooklyn and
Williamsburg bridges. The disc was still there at 11:30 PM, near
the JFK Airport. Personnel in the tower and planes should have
seen it. The UFO hjad a flashing rear light, a white light in
the top center moving in a circular motion on the crown. There
is an orange-reddish color to it and there wa s an upward tilt
at the front of the craft. It changed shape as it flew back and
forth, and had an elongated disk shape to it. Thanks to Peter
Davenport [ www.nuforc.org ]NUFORC

NEW JERSEY LIGHT IN ORBIT AROUND A LARGER LIGHT

SPRINGFIELD --This was a normal night, on August 31, 2003, when
a couple and friend were outside and noticed an object in the
sky that looked like a hot air balloon, but it was all lit up
and moved much quicker than a hot air balloon. On the bottom of
t he object was a blinking light. It moved too quickly to be a
hot air balloon or blimp, nor was it in the shape of a blimp. I
said it must be an UFO! They laughed. I said, "Well it is an
unidentified flying object."

BEACH HAVEN TERRACE - The observer was looking at the sky on
September 8, 2003, at 11:30 PM, and observed a brownish/red star
(Mars) in the west. The strange thing about this was that a
light at times circled around the planet object, Later it moved
left to right and right to left. Thi s light was a bluish/white.
The object itself appeared to be moving with the orbit of Mars.
Thanks to Peter Davenport [ www.nuforc.org ]NUFORC

FLORIDA - THREE LIGHTS IN TRIANGLE WITH THE TITAN 4 ROCKET

CAPE CANAVERAL -- A Titan 4 rocket was launched at 00:29 hours
on September 9, 2003, carrying classified National
Reconnaissance Office satellite. Peter Davenport at the National
Reporting Center ( [ www.nuforc.org ]NUFORC ) received seven
sighting rep orts from multiple locations during this time
period as follows:

TALLAHASSEE -- Two graduate students from National High Magnetic
Field Laboratory observed a rocket shaped object with a flat
bottom at 10:15 PM, changing from vertical to horizontal speed
for fifteen minutes. The object was flying extremely slowly, at
an angle changing from 0 to almost 45 degrees and appeared
almost motionless and floating in the air at very low height,
almost 30 to 50 feet above the tree tops. A blue light flashing
in the bottom of the object and 2 red lights flashing on 2
sides. The object made aj low rumbling sound like an aircraft's
engine. It suddenly went vertical and then as we followed it and
parked our cars, it became horizontal and increased the speed
all of a sudden and vanished quickly.

CLEARWATER - A couple went for a late night swim and saw a
bright light at 12:30 PM, to the east that split into three
triangles, one hovered and two dropped, and the first then
disappeared. Four people observed a strea k in the sky, a light
shot ahead, then the light in the rear broke into two, then one,
by one, they all burned out. Four of us observed a streak come
up (slightly from the ground direction) and then go sideways
(east). A light shot ahead and it was almost as if the object
(the faint triangular outlinej) was stretching. That light
burned out and the light in the rear broke into two. Then one at
a time they each burned out as the mass moved across the sky.

TAMPA - The witness was driving home when a hug e ball of
blinding light was taking off with a rectangular shaped trail
tapering off of it, which fluctuated in length. The ball of
light morphed into three separate lights forming the shape of a
triangle, which continued to flicker. All three of these lights
had distinct coloration's to them. The main most radiant light
at the front/top of the triangle was a pale yellow color, the
light on the left was a pale red color, and the light to the
right was a greenishj blue color. The shape of the lights was in
the form o f an acute triangle and just floated with such grace.
As these three lights got closer they stopped flickering and a
form appeared around the lights.

The shape was of a triangle craft with the top peak cut off
almost in half. The body was a gray color with a gray blue
paneling around it. By this time it was hovering over the tree
line and was the size of one and a half football fields. Then
the ship gradually disappeared, starting at the rear two dimmer
lights, which faded away like streaks in the sky as if it was
traveling at great speeds. The main light gradually diminished
in size and rose in the sky as if it took off towards the
southeast until it fjully disappeared. Every thing about this
unidentified object was so geometric and precise in it's shape
that it was breath taking. This sighting lasted for about three
to five minutes.

PORT ST LUCIE - The witness reports something caught on fire
while entering the atmosphere at a northeastern direction from
me in the sky. Heading ESE there were two lon g golden flames
close together and parallel, with a small bright dot in front as
if this thing caught on fire when entering the atmosphere. As it
moved across the sky the front dot slowly drifted away from the
long flames. The long flames went out first and the small dot
stayed lit for about 1/2 a minute longer then went out. The long
flames were abojut two inches long and move about 1 ft across
the sky before they went out. the front dot was almost connected
to the flames for about 10 seconds before drifting away fro m
the 2 flames. I watched the event for three minutes.

PUNTA GORDA - The observer watched an object in the sky for
about five minutes on the southern Gulf Coast of Florida. We
thought it was a plane at first but it was too bright and it had
a comet like tail.... the object then flared a red color and
split into two pieces, one flared again and disappeared the
other continued in a bright glow with a tail then flared red and
fell straight down also disappearing.

FORT LAUDERDALE -- My fi anc=C3=A9, her mother and a physician were
driving north on I 95 when we all saw a large trail of light as
if fire was being left behind moving east. We pulled off the
highway to take a picture. The object then lost the trail and 3
lights appeared. Two were very bright orange the other a fainter
white. These lights appeared to hover in a triangular formation
fainting again into the clouds. My fianc=C3=A9's mother made an
interesting comment that at the age of 15 she saw a similar
event over her country jof birth, Argentina.

EDITOR'S NOTE: Seven sightings occurred around the time of
launch of the Titan 4B missile into a cloud layer shortly after
lift off. Some witnesses in Tampa, Clearwater, and Port St
Lucie, 125 miles away, reported seeing three lights, not one
rocket launch pattern. This might be explained by two massive
112-foot solid rocket boosters and a two-stage liquid Aerozine-
50 and nitrogen tetroxide main engine that boosted the rocket
further east and into space. A liquid oxygen and liquid hydrogen
C entaur upper stage wjas to boost the cargo into its proper
orbit. Several witnesses said, "the object was hovering for
several minutes." We have the possibility that cloud layers,
distance, and the night launch of several missile stages caused
the witness's misperception. However, there is also a
possibility that other craft were present. The Tallahassee
sighting may have been a UFO moving into position prior to
launch, since UFOs are frequently seen in the vicinity of
missile launches.

OHIO - FLYIN G TRIANGLE SIGHTING

SEAMAN, ADAMS COUNTY -- Kenny Young was contacted on the
Cincinnati UFO Hotline to report a tremendously large object
seen around midnight of September 13, 2003. Mandy, a 21-year old
along with her Mom, her sister and one of her friends saw a huge
object off Route 32. They observed a triangular-shaped formation
of lights on one large object, the lights flashed in sequence
and would simultaneously alternate in color from pinkish-red,
blue, white to yellow. There were 4-or 5 ligh ts on the outer
edges of the triangle facing downward that flashed as a row of
lights. The flashing effect was vastly different than the
twinkling of a star. The colors would change in unison, all red
or all yellow, etc., and would flash along the outer edge of the
object in a slow sequence at first, then the flashing sequence
escalated in speed after several minutes into the sighting. The
UFO was not quite as big as a full moon, and it hovered above
Belfast for almost an hour at an elevation less t han 45 degrees
above the horizon. Her mother, who is skeptical about UFOs,
decided to have her report the object because it seemed to be so
unusual. Both her sister and her friend are skeptical about
UFOs, but could not identify the object.. Coyotes were heard
howling ridiculously loud during the sighting, and also the
previous evening. Thanks to Kenny Young UFO RESEARCH [
http://home.fuse.net/ufo ]http://home.fuse.net/ufo Hotline 513-
588-4548

WISCONSIN - BRIGHT WHITE LIGHT MOVING F ASTER THAN THE JET.

CHIPPEWA FALLS -- It was a very clear sky on September 3, 2003,
at 5:00 AM, I had just sent my daughter off to college and I
stood alone in the driveway observing the stars, when I noticed
a commercial jet on its way to the St. Paul/Minneapolis Airport.
It was using the east to west flight corridor. An object
appeared from the west that was a very bright white light moving
faster, but lower than the jet. It flew directly over my head
with no sound and flew northeast in less than a min ute. [
http://www.ufowisconsin.com/county/reports2003/r2003_0903_chippe
wa.html
]http://www.ufowisconsin.com/county/reports2003/r2003_0903_chipp
ewa.html

TENNESSEE - DAYLIGHT DISC VIDEO

BRISTOL - Kim Shaver video taped a disc on August 2, 2003, that
was witnessed by his entire family. The object was first
observed an estimated altitude of 6,500 feet at 7:45 PM and
descends. Video is being uploaded to: [
http://www.georgefiler.com/ ]www.GeorgeFiler.com/ &; nbsp;

LOUISIANA - STRANGE LIGHTS

BROUILLETTE -- Andrew Griffin writes, "I forwarded my story to
you regarding the strange lights witnessed by many on August 28,
2003. I got another call from a credible witness saying he saw
the same lights in the community of Brouillette, between 9 and
10 p.m. when most of the sightings in south and southwest LA
took place. The distance between Brouillette and Moss Bluff,
Louisiana is 100 miles. The gentleman I interviewed, also,
mentioned that thi s object went toward the southeast, not the
southwest tjoward Lake Charles, and he is positive it was not a
helicopter. He was convinced it was a UFO. Thanks to Andrew
Griffin/The Town Talk

CALIFORNIA - DISK THAT STOOD STILL.

RIVERSIDE -- My Father-in-law saw a bright light in the sky from
the freeway on September 7, 2003, at 9 PM. He kept watching it
for over ten minutes as it slowly moved over a small mountain
near March Air Force Base looking like a very bright light bulb.
It started hover ing and looked like a satellite dish in shape
that had a halo around it. It didn't look like any normal plane
or any other object he's seen. [ www.nuforc.org ]NUFORC

WASHINGTON - RED CYLINDERS AND GIANT GREEN BALL SHOT DOWNWARD

FEDERAL WAY - A couple was taking an evening walk on September
3, 2003, when they saw a very bright lights moving speedily past
them at 9 PM. It was a black triangle with three or possibly
more bright lights. We thought it was a plane until we noti ced
it was moving backward it took two or three turns and then
started rising and eventually moved out of sight. [
www.nuforc.org ]NUFORC

SEATTLE - An hour later, another witness was walking his dogs in
Northgate and saw two distinctly red oblong luminous objects
moving northwest across the sky at a high angular velocity at 10
PM. They were very bizarre in appearance, and maneuvered,
relative to each other and disappeared behind a nearby building,
The witness quickly returned to his residence and drew a picture
of what he had just witnessed minutes earlier. [
http://www.nuforc.org/ ]NUFORC

EASTERN CASCADES - Cliff Mickelson writes, "Last week, red
lights were over Los Angles; my neighbors and I have been
watching them up here for over a year now." We, also, witness
nighttime military traffic including the flying triangle. I live
25 miles from the nearest town on a small farm in the Eastern
Cascades. My home sits on a hill and we have seen enough to make
a be liever out of anyone! This summer my neighbors, kids, and I
watched them every night. They usually appeared several hours
after sundown, but rarelyj after 3 AM. These objects fade and
sometimes brightening considerably. Other times they cross the
entire horizon at incredible or more moderate rates of speed.
Some objects exhibit a single white glowing light with radiant
luminescence. An entire group at the reservation gather each
night near Mt. Adams, to watch. The highlight of the year was
watching a military jet try to catch one. Large groups of
stationary and semi-stationary objects flash blue, red, green
and white. These lights vary in intensity jfrom one minute to
the next. Beginning two years ago, these objects have increased
until they fill every quadrant. I have very little use for the
desk bound opinions of professionals who fail to come and look.
I can guarantee you that you are on to something big! Thanks to
Cliff Mickelson Yakima, WA

CANADA - LARGE INCREASE IN SIGHTINGS - CYLINDER

SAK INAW LAKE - Brian Vike writes, The witness who owns a summer
home on the Sunshine Coast reports that on August 7, 2003, she
took her star gazing gear in a peddle boat out to the middle of
the lake. She states, "I usually stay out for a couple of hours
and watch the shooting stars before peddling home." At 10:15 PM,
I spotted a shooting star that streaked across the sky heading
south then stopped, and split into four lights which formed a
square with a light in each corner. It stayed in the square
formation fojr four seconds before it changed forms again. Two
lights stayed in place while the other two moved slightly away,
then stopped. The four lights together looked like a rectangle
and stayed this way for a few seconds. Then the two lights that
moved to form the rectangle shot off northward, like parallel
shooting stars, while the other two lights only separated
slightly and remained stationary.

ENDERBY BC --On August 28th, 2003, around 8:30 PM, my sister and
I went for a walk and saw a mediu m sized hovering white light
in the sky. Then not even in a blink of an eye it went from
medium size to big, then to very tiny and started moving very
fast. It confused me and frightened her.

BARRIERE, BC - A fellow telephoned to say he heard Brian on CIFM
Radio talking to a witness about a sighting she and a large
number of others had on September 3, 2003,. He said, "I saw
something move very strangely at 11:10 PM, and have that object
on video. The radio witness says, she saw a huge cylinder shaped
craft flying very low, that was larger and longer than any
aircraft! There were bright white lights that looked like
windows running down the full length of a long tube. No sound
was heard. Their cat went nujts when the object passed by

KELOWNA - At midnight on July 31, 2003, two ladies decided to go
star gazing at an isolated area off the side of a back road.
They were out of the car a minute as Pat shined her flashlight
into the sky and they saw three white stars in a triangle shape
that started m oving together. The lights changed to a neon
green and the object flew to a position just ahead of their car.
Pat shined her flashlight down the road and spotted something
which frightened them - five sets of eyes were staring from 40
feet away. Their first thoughts were coyotes or wild animals.
The creatures were roughly four feet tall, with dark gray
shoulders. They started coming towards the women. Pat said, "I
was so scared. I yelled, "Get in the car." They scrambled into
the car, but everything slowed down and the ignition failed."

Finally the car started and they sped off towards home, and
noticed a fair bit of traffic and wondered where was all the
traffic when all this was happening?" As they drove Pat said,
"This is the weirdest thing. I feel like electricity, my whole
body is tingling, just like I was zapped by a charge from a
battery." When Linda heard this, she said, "I am feeling the
same. As if I was hit by an electrical charge." Linda glanced at
the car's clock and said, "Look at the time, we were only
stopped for a few minutes, now the clock reads an extra 25
minutes of time." Investigation continues. Thanks to Brian Vike,
Director UFO Research
http://www.geocities.com/hbccufo/home.html

UK/ENGLAND - SILVER CIGAR

BURNLEY TODAY NEWS -- Burnley cabbie, Mr. Steve Haworth, and a
passenger watched a mysterious flying object suddenly appear,
perform a series of maneuvers and then simply disappear without
trace above the town, e arly on August 30, 2003. Mr. Haworth was
taking a customer to work at 7:45 AM, and saw a silver cigar-
shaped object with a small pulsating light in the middle, that
stopped and hovered. Then it changed shape as it flew forward
and backward before vanishing into thin air. Sightings date back
to 1869, and have been rjeported regularly throughout the
decades since.
http://www.burnleytoday.co.uk/ViewArticle.aspx?SectionID=3D12&ArticleID=3D65=
4412


LIVERPOOL -- Four witnesses saw a black shape changing obj ect
on August 24 2003, at Glen Park Road Wallasey, Merseyside. It
7:30 PM, as they sat in the garden of a friend's home enjoying
the clear weather. One of the party noticed a black spherical
shaped object moving at high speed faster than aircraft.
Binoculars were brought from the house. The object changed
direction and its shape. They lost sight when it went over the
roofline. The object was fingernail size at arm's length. Nikki
Limb will investigjate. Thanks to Bill Bimson www.mara.org.uk



Graham Birdsall has suffered a brain hemorrhage has undergone
two operations at the neuro-intensive care unit in Leeds. We
urge you to pray for his quick recovery.

NETHERLANDS - BLACK OBJECT

BERGEIJK - At 4:05 AM, a married couple while camping on August
25, saw a big, round, black object hovering at 500 meters above
them. Two red 'spots' were visible. Suddenly, "the first part
the round object disappeared, and then there a huge extremely
bright flash, as it disappeared. Thanks to Toine Trust Site [
www.UFOPlaza.nl ]www.UFOPlaza.nl

CROATIA -- PHOTOS OF TWO UFOs AND A CIGAR

SLAVONSKI BROD - The witness reports on September 4, 2003, at
3:35 PM, I saw an object that didn't look like a plane or
helicopter. I never believed myself in stuff like this but I
couldn't explain what I saw. It was moving too slowly for a
plane and it didn't have any lights. The craft was shaped like a
cigar and was gray in color. It wasn't very high but I didn't
hear any sounds and there was no trail. I thought it was a
Zeppelin, but I know now it wasn't. I watched for twenty seconds
but when it came nejar a cloud, it just disappeared.

Two unidentified craft were photographed this summer. They may
be fighter aircraft, but no tail or wings are evident. Thanks to
Toine Trust Site Admin @ UFOPlaza x UFOPortal

http://www.ufoplaza.nl/~ganzegal/pix/Porec2003.jpg

JORDAN A STRONG STRANGE LIGHT PASSED ABOVE MY CAR

AQABA -- I was driving home from Aqaba on a desert road south
towards Amman on September 2, 2003, at 2:15 AM. It was so dark
that you can hardly see a car at this hour. Suddenly I saw a
very strong white light coming from behind in my mirror. The
light was so bright; I could hardly open my eyes. It kept coming
closer and closer so fast. The car shook as it passed over my
car and I almost lost control as it passed. I have never seen
any thing that fast in my life. I wasn't able to see the shape
of the ojbject as it disappeared so fast. I didn't hear any
thing but the sound of strong wind just like the sound of a
storm. [ www.nuforc.org ]NUFORC

CHILE - FORMER AIR FORCE COMMANDER CHASED UFOs

General Hernan Gabrielli described his 1978, UFO encounter to
Alejandro Guillier stating: "We were flying two F-5s, dual
training craft, and we were returning to base from Mejillones to
An tofagasta. I suddenly detected a radar fault and saw a line
that ran side to side on the scope, and my student, Danilo
Catal=C3=A1n, also detected the same, and curiously enough it was
the ground radar, which has a large screen, that also indicated
a radar fault. At that time we looked toward [the part of the
sky indicatedj on the radar screen] and we saw that UFO.

It was visualized as a smoke-covered, half-deformed banana, that
was very large and in plain sight. It was tremendously large and
surrounded by a fu marole, which moved, in our same direction
and at the same speed as our aircraft. We approached it
carefully. We were heading back from Attack 1, which is a combat
tactic involving gun cameras, no cannon, missiles or anything
else. So we approached it with caution. The UFO did not go away,
so we arrived in an instant at the same altitude, between 30,000
and j35,000. The F-5 fighter covers 10 nautical miles a minute,
(20 kilometers a minute).

Alejandro Guillier: And this object you saw, how fast did it va
nish?

Hernan Gabrielli: Unimaginable, in other words, thousands of
nautical miles a minute, because it vanished toward the west
suddenly and the screen cleared up. In other words, all three
radar screens--the ground radar, mine and Danilo's -- were
operating normally. It wasn't just a visual experience but a
physical one as well, one that materialized on the screen. I
haven't the slightest idea, where they come from. At that time
there was also another sighting by a pilot near Calama, in a
Vampire aircraft. Vampjires were wooden aircraft, and the
fighter climbed to a high altitude but could see from below that
the UFO didn't move. However, as the pilot climbed, he said, he
could never reach it. They later sent out a pair of fighters,
then an F-5 and nothing, really. They climbed to fifty something
thousand feet, and had to turn back but they never reached it.

Alejandro Gabrielli: And by the descriptions you recall,
general, was there any similarity with the sighting you had in
Antofagasta?

Hernan Gab rielli: No, because this one had another shape, it
had a shape...in other words, as though looking from below
upward, the pilots flying at the time said it was triangular.
This was 1978, and latest thing around was the Mach 3, SR-71,
U.S. spy plane. This thing did not move.

Alejandro Guillier: Now, why does the FACH [Chilean Air Force]
handle all of this with such secrecy, because it has in fact
appeared before Congress, before parliamentarians, and everyone
was deathly silent...there were no such things. Al l they do is
create more concern, because one says: "Well, there must be
something awful that the FACH, the senators and the deputies
don't want to discuss," and in this case they were all quiet.

Hernan Gabrielli: Look, it's not that there's an unwillingness
to talk, but since it is an almost intangible piece of
information it cannot be handled, it cannot be processed. The
base commander is informed and then the page is turned and
normal activity resumes.

Alejandro Guillier: Last weekend in Calama, a LAN airliner was
flying with the players of the Wanderers team for the big match
against Cobrelola and the pilot was forced to make a spectacular
turn, diving to avoid a collision with a UFO. Supposedly, there
was no airplane there. Thanks to Scott Corrales, Translation (C)
2003.

SHOP AND SAVE FROM YOUR PC

Shop at my "Web Mall" for your discounted gifts and everyday
needs a t 600+ stores. You will help Filer's Files to continue
and you can get top quality discounted products from the stores
you have confidence in such as: Best Buy, Carrabelle, Fischer
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]FILER.unfranchise.com

ITS A MIRACLE - THE WAY IT IMPROVES YOUR HEALTH
http://www.filer.Isotonix.com/

MUFON UFO JOURNAL -- For more detailed monthly investigative reports
subscribe to the MUFON JOURNAL. A MUFON membership includes the Journal
and costs only $35.00 per year. To j oin MUFON or to report a UFO go to
http://www.mufon.com/. To ask questions contact MUFONHQ@aol.com or
HQ@mufon.com. "The MUFON Journal is now accepting qualified advertising,
please call 1 (303) 932-7709 for more information."

Filer's Files is copyrighted 2003 by George A. Filer, all rights
reserved. Readers may post the COMPLETE files on their Web Sites if they
credit the newsletter and its editor by name and list the date of issue.
These reports and comments are not necessarily the OFFICIAL MUFON
viewpoint. Send your letters to Majorstar@aol.com. Sending mail
automatically grants permission for us to publish and use your name.
Please state if you wish to keep your name or e-mail confidential.
CAUTION, MOST OF THESE ARE INITIAL REPORTS AND REQUIRE FURTHER
INVESTIGATION.

Regards,

George A. Filer
www.GeorgeFiler.com







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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Sep > Sep 18

              Re: Review: Socorro 'Saucer' In A Pentagon Pantry

From: Lan Fleming <lfleming5@houston.rr.com>
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 13:04:56 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 12:29:28 -0400
Subject: Re: Review: Socorro 'Saucer' In A Pentagon Pantry


>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker@earthlink.net>
>Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 14:36:14 -0400
>Fwd Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 06:49:28 -0400
>Subject: Re: Review: Socorro 'Saucer' In A Pentagon Pantry

>So, Frankel was no longer involved! Frankel's original agreement
>was to analyze the sample, "...on an unofficial basis," as Dick
>Hall had said in his June 24, 1964, letter to me. Suddenly,
>Frankel was no longer involved, and here was Sciacca giving me a
>very "official" conclusion that the sample had only been silica-
>dioxide, which conclusion he also sent me on official letterhead
>on September 11, 1964, making it clearly official. The letter's
>document code is: "FILE 3875, 623.8 (64)-40/TS/cmd."

If Dr. Frankel used a standard method like energy dispersive
spectrography, and the instrument was in working order, it is
impossible that he could mistake silicon for zinc or iron (I
don't know the details, but I assume that Frankel didn't use a
taste test or a ouija board to determine the element composition
of the sample).

_If_ there are official letters claiming that Frankel made such
an idiotic mistake, then they would be proof that somebody at
NASA was lying and there was in fact a cover- up. The nasty
personal attacks are a distraction from that fact. Its
significance clearly should transcend the petty bickering -
except for those who are deliberately trying to divert -
attention from it.








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   Sep > Sep 18

                          Secrecy News -- 09/17/03

From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood@fas.org>
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 15:40:41 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 12:35:05 -0400
Subject: Secrecy News -- 09/17/03


SECRECY NEWS
from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy
Volume 2003, Issue No. 77
September 17, 2003


**      COMMERCIAL SATELLITE IMAGERY ADVANCES
**      A CHINESE CRITIQUE OF THE PENTAGON'S VIEW OF CHINA
**      HOW GEORGE TENET UNDERMINED THE CIA
**      DID ROVE BLOW A SPOOK'S COVER?
**      GROOM LAKE EXEMPTION RENEWED


COMMERCIAL SATELLITE IMAGERY ADVANCES

The commercial satellite imagery industry is poised to reach a
remarkable new milestone as vendors seek government permission
to launch a commercial imaging satellite with resolution as high
as 0.25 meters (ten inches) by the year 2006.

"This is truly spy satellite technology [made public]," said
Mark Brender, a vice president at Space Imaging, one of the
imagery vendors pursuing such a license.  "Beyond one quarter
meter, there's not much under the skirt left to look at."

The highest resolution commercial imagery currently available is
0.61 meters (two feet), a threshold that was only achieved in
2001 by Digital Globe's QuickBird satellite.

Applications to acquire 0.25 meter commercial satellite imagery
are now pending before the National Oceanic and Atmospheric
Administration (NOAA), which administers the licensing process
on behalf of the U.S. government, including the national
security bureaucracy.  A decision is expected sometime between
now and the end of the year.

Meanwhile, the National Imagery and Mapping Agency (NIMA) is
significantly increasing its investment in commercial high
resolution imagery as a supplement -- or an alternative -- to
classified U.S. intelligence satellite imagery.

NIMA recently announced its "NextView" initiative, through which
it will acquire a stake in the next generation of commercial
imagery satellites.  In exchange for a reported $530 million
over five years (according to Space News and Inside the
Pentagon), NIMA will gain assured access, priority tasking
rights, and other privileges.

It is unclear how NIMA's participation will affect access to the
imagery by other consumers, such as the news media, non-
governmental organizations and foreign governments.  It is
possible, for example, that imagery acquired for NIMA would go
into a restricted archive.

A classified request for proposals for the NextView initiative
was issued by NIMA in June, and both Space Imaging and Digital
Globe have submitted proposals.  An award is said to be
imminent.  (Next month, NIMA will be renamed the National
Geospatial-Intelligence Agency, or NGA.)

A descriptive account of NextView, excerpted from the July-
August 2003 issue of the NIMA publication Pathfinder, may be
found here:

http://www.fas.org/irp/agency/nima/nextview.pdf

The growing reliance on commercial satellite imagery is one of
the few true signs of "transformation" in the defense and
intelligence bureaucracies.

The importance of this trend is underscored by a new report from
the General Accounting Office which found serious defects in the
government's acquisition of spy satellites and other military
space programs.  The conclusions of the GAO report overlap with
those of a similar report on military space from the Defense
Science Board (SN, 09/05/03).

See "Defense Acquisitions: Improvements Needed in Space Systems
Acquisition Management Policy," U.S. General Accounting Office,
September 2003:

http://www.fas.org/spp/military/gao/gao-03-1073.pdf


A CHINESE CRITIQUE OF THE PENTAGON'S VIEW OF CHINA

The recent report from the U.S. Department of Defense on
"Military Power of the People's Republic of China" was full of
"exaggeration" and "innuendo" and it "misrepresents China's
strategic goals and defense policy."

That is the judgment of a Chinese reviewer writing in the
Beijing newspaper Jiefangjun Bao (and reprinted in the People's
Liberation Army Daily) earlier this month.  See:

http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/china/jfjb090803.html


HOW GEORGE TENET UNDERMINED THE CIA

A full account of the official misrepresentations surrounding
the U.S. war in Iraq has yet to be compiled, but Director of
Central Intelligence George J. Tenet must assume personal
responsibility for some of them, argue the authors of a lengthy
indictment in The New Republic.

"At a moment when many in the CIA, probably including Tenet, had
their doubts about the factual premises of the Iraq war, Tenet
compromised his agency's mandate to 'deliver intelligence that
is clear and objective'," write Spencer Ackerman and John B.
Judis.  "The CIA -- and the nation -- will suffer the
consequences for a long time."

See "The Operator: George Tenet Undermines the CIA," The New
Republic, September 22:

http://www.tnr.com/docprint.mhtml?i030922&s=ackermanjudis0922
03


DID ROVE BLOW A SPOOK'S COVER?

The question of whether Bush Administration officials violated
the law to disclose that the wife of an Administration critic
was an undercover CIA officer surfaced again at a White House
press briefing on September 16.  (It's "totally ridiculous," the
White House said.)

The story is reviewed and updated by Timothy Noah in "Did Rove
Blow a Spook's Cover? The White House won't say," Slate.com,
September 16:

http://slate.msn.com/id/2088471/


GROOM LAKE EXEMPTION RENEWED

Area 51, the famous secret Air Force base near Groom Lake,
Nevada, will remain exempt for at least another year from any
environmental laws that would require public disclosure of
hazardous waste disposal practices or nearly anything else.

Environmental practices at the secret base had been the subject
of litigation in the 1990s by workers who claimed they were
injured by unregulated open pit burning of hazardous materials.
The litigation was blocked when the government declared that
national security concerns precluded judicial review of the
merits of the case.

President Bush renewed the secret base's exemption for one more
year in a September 16 memorandum to the EPA Administrator. See:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/2003/09/groom.html


_______________________________________________
Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the
Federation of American Scientists.

To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to
secrecy_news-request@lists.fas.org
with "subscribe" in the body of the message.

OR email your request to saftergood@fas.org

Secrecy News is archived at:
http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html

_______________________
Steven Aftergood
Project on Government Secrecy
Federation of American Scientists
web:    www.fas.org/sgp/index.html
email:  saftergood@fas.org
voice:  (202) 454-4691







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   Sep > Sep 18

                Re: UK UFO Magazine's Graham Birdsall - Velez

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 17:04:30 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 12:55:36 -0400
Subject: Re: UK UFO Magazine's Graham Birdsall - Velez


>From: Stephen Bassett <SGBList2@aol.com>
>To: ufoupdates@sympatico.ca
>Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 16:13:45 EDT
>Subject: Re: UK UFO Magazine's Graham Birdsall Suffers Brain Hemorrhage

>>From: A. J. Gevaerd - Revista UFO <gevaerd@ufo.com.br>
>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>>Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 10:54:55 -0300
>>Subject: UK UFO Magazine's Graham Birdsall Suffers Brain Hemorrhage

><snip>

>>Because of this terrible situation, the cancellation of the 22nd
>>International UFO Conference and Gala Dinner is to be announced
>>by Russel at any time.

>>It is absolutely terrifying to see a great person such as Graham
>>Birdsall in such illness. But let's hope and pray for his
>>recovery soon. He is an icon for the world UFO community and a
>>great developer of this field.

>Surely there must be some supporters in the UK who can step into
>the breech and carry the work load for the Birdsall family in
>order to put on the conference in Leeds. Graham loves this
>conference, and I would think would want it to take place. Such
>events are more than just entertainment, they are key venues for
>keeping the public informed about the most profound
>circumstances - something the government and the press will not
>properly do.

>I call on the supporters of disclosure in the UK to contact
>Graham's family and Russel Callaghan and offer to help put on
>the Leeds event.

>In sympathy and determination,

>Steve Bassett

Hi AJ, All,

I would like to express and send along my best wishes for Graham
and for his family and loved ones who, are undoubtedly suffering
through this ordeal with him.

I'd like to second Stephen's suggestion! It's a great idea and one
that may help Graham in his recovery process. I'm sure it would
set his mind at ease to know that his own misfortune will not
affect a project he holds near and dear.

Good suggestion Stephen!

Thank you AJ for keeping us informed.


Regards to all,

John Velez







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   Sep > Sep 18

                  Could Religions Survive Discovery Of Life

From: Eustaquio Andrea Patounas <socex@terra.com.br>
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 20:51:02 -0300
Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 12:59:44 -0400
Subject: Could Religions Survive Discovery Of Life


Source: The Atlantic Monthly - Australia

http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/2003/09/davies.htm

September 2003

Could Earthly Religions Survive The Discovery Of Life Elsewhere
In The Universe?

by Paul Davies

The recent discovery of abundant water on Mars, albeit in the
form of permafrost, has raised hopes for finding traces of life
there. The Red Planet has long been a favorite location for
those speculating about extraterrestrial life, especially since
the 1890s, when H. G. Wells wrote The War of the Worlds and the
American astronomer Percival Lowell claimed that he could see
artificial canals etched into the planet's parched surface.
Today, of course, scientists expect to find no more than simple
bacteria dwelling deep underground, if even that. Still, the
discovery of just a single bacterium somewhere beyond Earth
would force us to revise our understanding of who we are and
where we fit into the cosmic scheme of things, throwing us into
a deep spiritual identity crisis that would be every bit as
dramatic as the one Copernicus brought about in the early 1500s,
when he asserted that Earth was not at the center of the
universe.

Whether or not we are alone is one of the great existential
questions that confront us today. Probably because of the high
emotional stakes, the search for life beyond Earth is deeply
fascinating to the public. Opinion polls and Web-site hits
indicate strong support for and interest in space missions that
are linked even obliquely to this search. Perceiving the
public's interest, NASA has reconfigured its research strategy
and founded the NASA Astrobiology Institute, dedicated to the
study of life in the cosmos. At the top of the agenda,
naturally, is the race to find life elsewhere in the solar
system.

Researchers have long focused on Mars in their search for
extraterrestrial life because of its relative proximity. But
twenty-five years ago, as a result of the 1976 Viking mission,
many of them became discouraged. A pair of spacecraft had passed
through the planet's extremely thin atmosphere, touched down on
the surface, and found it to be a freeze-dried desert drenched
with deadly ultraviolet rays. The spacecraft, equipped with
robotic arms, scooped up Martian dirt so that it could be
examined for signs of biological activity. The results of the
analysis were inconclusive but generally negative, and hopes
faded for finding even simple microbes on the surface of Mars.

The outlook today is more optimistic. Several probes are
scheduled to visit Mars in the coming months, and all will be
searching for signs of life. This renewed interest is due in
part to the discovery of organisms living in some remarkably
hostile environments on Earth (which opens up the possibility of
life on Mars in places the Viking probes didn't examine), and in
part to better information about the planet's ancient history.
Scientists now believe that Mars once had a much thicker
atmosphere, higher temperatures, rivers, floods, and extensive
volcanic activity all conditions considered favorable to the
emergence of life.

The prospects for finding living organisms on Mars remain slim,
of course, but even traces of past life would represent a
discovery of unprecedented scientific value. Before any sweeping
philosophical or theological conclusions could be drawn,
however, it would be necessary to determine whether this life
was the product of a second genesis that is, whether its origin
was independent of life on Earth. Earth and Mars are known to
trade material in the form of rocks blasted from the planets'
surfaces by the violent impacts of asteroids and comets.
Microbes could have hitched a ride on this detritus, raising the
possibility that life started on Earth and was transferred to
Mars, or vice versa. If traces of past life were discovered on
Mars but found to be identical to some form of terrestrial life,
transportation by ejected rocks would be the most plausible
explanation, and we would still lack evidence that life had
started from scratch in two separate locations.

The significance of this point is crucial. In his theory of
evolution Charles Darwin provided a persuasive account of how
life evolved over billions of years, but he pointedly omitted
any explanation of how life got started in the first place. "One
might as well think of origin of matter," he wrote in a letter
to a friend. A century and a half later, scientists still have
little understanding of how the first living thing came to be.

Some scientists believe that life on Earth is a freak accident
of chemistry, and as such must be unique. Because even the
simplest known microbe is breathtakingly complex, they argue,
the chances that one formed by blind molecular shuffling are
infinitesimal; the probability that the process would occur
twice, in separate locations, is virtually negligible. The
French biochemist and Nobel laureate Jacques Monod was a firm
believer in this view. "Man at last knows he is alone in the
unfeeling immensity of the universe, out of which he has emerged
only by chance," he wrote in 1971. He used this bleak assessment
as a springboard to argue for atheism and the absurdity and
pointlessness of existence. As Monod saw it, we are merely
chemical extras in a majestic but impersonal cosmic drama an
irrelevant, unintended sideshow.

But suppose that's not what happened. Many scientists believe
that life is not a freakish phenomenon (the odds of life's
starting by chance, the British cosmologist Fred Hoyle once
suggested, are comparable to the odds of a whirlwind's blowing
through a junkyard and assembling a functioning Boeing 747) but
instead is written into the laws of nature. "The universe must
in some sense have known we were coming," the physicist Freeman
Dyson famously observed. No one can say precisely in what sense
the universe might be pregnant with life, or how the general
expectancy Dyson spoke of might translate into specific physical
processes at the molecular level. Perhaps matter and energy
always get fast-tracked along the road to life by what's often
called "self-organization." Or perhaps the power of Darwinian
evolution is somehow harnessed at a pre-biotic molecular stage.
Or maybe some efficient and as yet unidentified physical process
(quantum mechanics?) sets the gears in motion, with organic life
as we know it taking over the essential machinery at a later
stage. Under any of these scenarios life becomes a fundamental
rather than an incidental product of nature. In 1994, reflecting
on this same point, another Nobel laureate, the Belgian
biochemist Christian de Duve, wrote, "I view this universe not
as a 'cosmic joke,' but as a meaningful entity made in such a
way as to generate life and mind, bound to give birth to
thinking beings able to discern truth, apprehend beauty, feel
love, yearn after goodness, define evil, experience mystery."

Absent from these accounts is any mention of miracles. Ascribing
the origin of life to a divine miracle not only is anathema to
scientists but also is theologically suspect. The term "God of
the gaps" was coined to deride the notion that God can be
invoked as an explanation whenever scientists have gaps in their
understanding. The trouble with invoking God in this way is that
as science advances, the gaps close, and God gets progressively
squeezed out of the story of nature. Theologians long ago
accepted that they would forever be fighting a rearguard battle
if they tried to challenge science on its own ground. Using the
formation of life to prove the existence of God is a tactic that
risks instant demolition should someone succeed in making life
in a test tube. And the idea that God acts in fits and starts,
moving atoms around on odd occasions in competition with natural
forces, is a decidedly uninspiring image of the Grand Architect.

The theological battle line in relation to the formation of life
is not, therefore, between the natural and the miraculous but
between sheer chance and lawlike certitude. Atheists tend to
take the first side, and theists line up behind the second; but
these divisions are general and by no means absolute. It's
perfectly possible to be an atheist and believe that life is
built ingeniously into the nature of the universe. It's also
possible to be a theist and suppose that God engineered just one
planet with life, with or without the help of miracles.

Though the discovery of microbes on Mars or elsewhere would
ignite a passionate theological debate, the truly difficult
issues surround the prospect of advanced alien beings in
possession of intelligence and technology. Most scientists don't
think that such beings exist, but for forty years a dedicated
band of astronomers has been sweeping the skies with radio
telescopes in hopes of finding a message from a civilization
elsewhere in the galaxy. Their project is known as SETI (Search
for Extraterrestrial Intelligence).

Because our solar system is relatively young compared with the
universe overall, any alien civilization the SETI researchers
might discover is likely to be much older, and presumably wiser,
than ours. Indeed, it might have achieved our level of science
and technology millions or even billions of years ago. Just
contemplating the possibility of such advanced extraterrestrials
appears to raise additional uncomfortable questions for
religion.

The world's main faiths were all founded in the pre-scientific
era, when Earth was widely believed to be at the center of the
universe and humankind at the pinnacle of creation. As
scientific discoveries have piled up over the past 500 years,
our status has been incrementally diminished. First Earth was
shown to be just one planet of several orbiting the Sun. Then
the solar system itself was relegated to the outer suburbs of
the galaxy, and the Sun classified as an insignificant dwarf
star among billions. The theory of evolution proposed that human
beings occupied just a small branch on a complex evolutionary
tree. This pattern continued into the twentieth century, when
the supremacy of our much vaunted intelligence came under
threat. Computers began to outsmart us. Now genetic engineering
has raised the specter of designer babies with superintellects
that leave ours far behind. And we must consider the
uncomfortable possibility that in astrobiological terms, God's
children may be galactic also-rans.

Theologians are used to putting a brave face on such
developments. Over the centuries the Christian church, for
example, has time and again been forced to accommodate new
scientific facts that challenge existing doctrine. But these
accommodations have usually been made reluctantly and very
belatedly. Only recently, for example, did the Pope acknowledge
that Darwinian evolution is more than just a theory. If SETI
succeeds, theologians will not have the luxury of decades of
careful deliberation to assess the significance of the
discovery. The impact will be instant.

The discovery of alien superbeings might not be so corrosive to
religion if human beings could still claim special spiritual
status. After all, religion is concerned primarily with people's
relationship to God, rather than with their biological or
intellectual qualities. It is possible to imagine alien beings
who are smarter and wiser than we are but who are spiritually
inferior, or just plain evil. However, it is more likely that
any civilization that had surpassed us scientifically would have
improved on our level of moral development, too. One may even
speculate that an advanced alien society would sooner or later
find some way to genetically eliminate evil behavior, resulting
in a race of saintly beings.

Suppose, then, that E.T. is far ahead of us not only
scientifically and technologically but spiritually, too. Where
does that leave mankind's presumed special relationship with
God? This conundrum poses a particular difficulty for
Christians, because of the unique nature of the Incarnation. Of
all the world's major religions, Christianity is the most
species-specific. Jesus Christ was humanity's savior and
redeemer. He did not die for the dolphins or the gorillas, and
certainly not for the proverbial little green men. But what of
deeply spiritual aliens? Are they not to be saved? Can we
contemplate a universe that contains perhaps a trillion worlds
of saintly beings, but in which the only beings eligible for
salvation inhabit a planet where murder, rape, and other evils
remain rife?

Those few Christian theologians who have addressed this thorny
issue divide into two camps. Some posit multiple incarnations
and even multiple crucifixions God taking on little green flesh
to save little green men, as a prominent Anglican minister once
told me. But most are appalled by this idea or find it
ludicrous. After all, in the Christian view of the world, Jesus
was God's only son. Would God have the same person born, killed,
and resurrected in endless succession on planet after planet?
This scenario was lampooned as long ago as 1794, by Thomas
Paine. "The Son of God," he wrote in The Age of Reason, "and
sometimes God himself, would have nothing else to do than to
travel from world to world, in an endless succession of death,
with scarcely a momentary interval of life." Paine went on to
argue that Christianity was simply incompatible with the
existence of extraterrestrial beings, writing, "He who thinks he
believes in both has thought but little of either."

Catholics tend to regard the idea of multiple incarnations as
verging on heresy, not because of its somewhat comic aspect but
because it would seem to automate an act that is supposed to be
God's singular gift. "God chose a very specific way to redeem
human beings," writes George Coyne, a Jesuit priest and the
director of the Vatican Observatory, whose own research includes
astrobiology. "He sent his only son, Jesus, to them, and Jesus
gave up his life so that human beings would be saved from their
sin. Did God do this for extraterrestrials? ... The theological
implications about God are getting ever more serious."

Paul Tillich, one of the few prominent Protestant theologians to
give serious consideration to the issue of alien beings, took a
more positive view. "Man cannot claim to occupy the only
possible place for incarnation," he wrote. The Lutheran
theologian Ted Peters, of the Center for Theology and the
Natural Sciences, in Berkeley, California, has made a special
study of the impact on religious faith of belief in
extraterrestrials. In discussing the tradition of debate on this
topic, he writes, "Christian theologians have routinely found
ways to address the issue of Jesus Christ as God incarnate and
to conceive of God's creative power and saving power exerted in
other worlds." Peters believes that Christianity is robust
enough and flexible enough to accommodate the discovery of
extraterrestrial intelligence, or ETI. One theologian who is
emphatically not afraid of that challenge is Robert Russell,
also of the Center for Theology and the Natural Sciences. "As we
await 'first contact,'" he has written, "pursuing these kinds of
questions and reflections will be immensely valuable."

Clearly, there is considerable diversity one might even say
muddle on this topic in theological circles. Ernan McMullin, a
professor emeritus of philosophy at Notre Dame University,
affirms that the central difficulty stems from Christianity's
roots in a pre-scientific cosmology. "It was easier to accept
the idea of God's becoming man," he has written, "when humans
and their abode both held a unique place in the universe." He
acknowledges that Christians especially face a stark predicament
in relation to ETI, but feels that Thomas Paine and his like-
minded successors have presented the problem too simplistically.
Pointing out that concepts such as original sin, incarnation,
and salvation are open to a variety of interpretations, McMullin
concludes that there is also widespread divergence among
Christians on the correct response to the ETI challenge. On the
matter of multiple incarnations he writes, "Their answers could
range ... from 'yes, certainly' to 'certainly not.' My own
preference would be a cautious 'maybe.'"

Even for those Christians who dismiss the idea of multiple
incarnations there is an interesting fallback position: perhaps
the course of evolution has an element of directionality, with
humanlike beings the inevitable end product. Even if Homo
sapiens as such may not be the unique focus of God's attention,
the broader class of all humanlike beings in the universe might
be. This is the basic idea espoused by the philosopher Michael
Ruse, an ardent Darwinian and an agnostic sympathetic to
Christianity. He sees the incremental progress of natural
evolution as God's chosen mode of creation, and the history of
life as a ladder that leads inexorably from microbes to man.

Most biologists regard a "progressive evolution," with human
beings its implied preordained goal, as preposterous. Stephen
Jay Gould once described the very notion as "noxious." After
all, the essence of Darwinism is that nature is blind. It cannot
look ahead. Random chance is the driving force of evolution, and
randomness by definition has no directionality. Gould insisted
that if the evolutionary tape were replayed, the result would be
very different from what we now observe. Probably life would
never get beyond microbes next time around.

But some respected biologists disagree sharply with Gould on
this point. Christian de Duve does not deny that the fine
details of evolutionary history depend on happenstance, but he
believes that the broad thrust of evolutionary change is somehow
innately predetermined that plants and animals were almost
destined to emerge amid a general advance in complexity. Another
Darwinian biologist, Simon Conway Morris, of Cambridge
University, makes his own case for a "ladder of progress,"
invoking the phenomenon of convergent evolution the tendency of
similar-looking organisms to evolve independently in similar
ecological niches. For example, the Tasmanian tiger (now
extinct) played the role of the big cat in Australia even
though, as a marsupial, it was genetically far removed from
placental mammals. Like Ruse, Conway Morris maintains that the
"humanlike niche" is likely to be filled on other planets that
have advanced life. He even goes so far as to argue that
extraterrestrials would have a humanoid form. It is not a great
leap from this conclusion to the belief that extraterrestrials
would sin, have consciences, struggle with ethical questions,
and fear death.

The theological difficulties posed by the possibility of
advanced alien beings are less acute for Judaism and Islam.
Muslims, at least, are prepared for ETI: the Koran states
explicitly, "And among His Signs is the creation of the heavens
and the earth, and the living creatures that He has scattered
through them." Nevertheless, both religions stress the
specialness of human beings and, indeed, of specific, well-
defined groups who have been received into the faith. Could an
alien become a Jew or a Muslim? Does the concept even make
sense? Among the major religious communities, Buddhists and
Hindus would seem to be the least threatened by the prospect of
advanced aliens, owing to their pluralistic concept of God and
their traditionally much grander vision of the cosmos.

Among the world's minority religions, some would positively
welcome the discovery of intelligent aliens. The Ra=EBlians, a
Canada-based cult recently propelled to fame by its claim to
have cloned a human being, believe that the cult's leader, Ra=EBl,
a French former journalist originally named Claude Vorilhon,
received revelations from aliens who briefly transported him
inside a flying saucer in 1973. Other fringe religious
organizations with an extraterrestrial message include the ill-
fated Heaven's Gate cult and many UFO groups. Their adherents
share a belief that aliens are located further up not only the
evolutionary ladder but also the spiritual ladder, and can
therefore help us draw closer to God and salvation. It is easy
to dismiss such beliefs as insignificant to serious theological
debate, but if evidence for alien beings were suddenly to
appear, these cults might achieve overnight prominence while
established religions floundered in doctrinal bewilderment.

Ironically, SETI is often accused of being a quasi-religious
quest. But Jill Tarter, the director of the SETI Institute's
Center for SETI Research, in Mountain View, California, has no
truck with religion and is contemptuous of the theological
gymnastics with which religious scholars accommodate the
possibility of extraterrestrials. "God is our own invention,"
she has written. "If we're going to survive or turn into a long-
lived technological civilization, organized religion needs to be
outgrown. If we get a message [from an alien civilization] and
it's secular in nature, I think that says that they have no
organized religion that they've outgrown it." Tarter's dismissal
is rather naive, however. Though many religious movements have
come and gone throughout history, some sort of spirituality
seems to be part of human nature. Even atheistic scientists
profess to experience what Albert Einstein called a "cosmic
religious feeling" when contemplating the awesome majesty of the
universe.

Would advanced alien beings share this spiritual dimension, even
though they might long ago have "outgrown" established religion?
Steven Dick, a science historian at the U.S. Naval Observatory,
believes they would. Dick is an expert on the history of
speculation about extraterrestrial life, and he suggests that
mankind's spirituality would be greatly expanded and enriched by
contact with an alien civilization. However, he envisages that
our present concept of God would probably require a wholesale
transformation. Dick has outlined what he calls a new
"cosmotheology," in which human spirituality is placed in a full
cosmological and astrobiological context. "As we learn more
about our place in the universe," he has written, "and as we
physically move away from our home planet, our cosmic
consciousness will only increase." Dick proposes abandoning the
transcendent God of monotheistic religion in favor of what he
calls a "natural God" a superbeing located within the universe
and within nature. "With due respect for present religious
traditions whose history stretches back nearly four millennia,"
he suggests, "the natural God of cosmic evolution and the
biological universe, not the supernatural God of the ancient
Near East, may be the God of the next millennium."

Some form of natural God was also proposed by Fred Hoyle, in a
provocative book titled The Intelligent Universe. Hoyle drew on
his work in astronomy and quantum physics to sketch the notion
of a "superintellect" a being who had, as Hoyle liked to say,
"monkeyed with physics," adjusting the properties of the various
fundamental particles and forces of nature so that carbon-based
organisms could thrive and spread across the galaxy. Hoyle even
suggested that this cosmic engineer might communicate with us by
manipulating quantum processes in the brain. Most scientists
shrug off Hoyle's speculations, but his ideas do show how far
beyond traditional religious doctrine some people feel they need
to go when they contemplate the possibility of advanced life
forms beyond Earth.

Though in some ways the prospect of discovering extraterrestrial
life undermines established religions, it is not all bad news
for them. Astrobiology has also led to a surprising resurgence
of the so-called "design argument" for the existence of God. The
original design argument, as articulated by William Paley in the
eighteenth century, was that living organisms' intricate
adaptation to their environments pointed to the providential
hand of a benign Creator. Darwin demolished the argument by
showing how evolution driven by random mutation and natural
selection could mimic design. Now a revamped design argument has
emerged that fully embraces the Darwinian account of evolution
and focuses instead on the origin of life. (I must stress that I
am not referring here to what has recently become known as the
Intelligent Design movement, which relies on an element of the
miraculous.) If life is found to be widespread in the universe,
the new design argument goes, then it must emerge rather easily
from nonliving chemical mixtures, and thus the laws of nature
must be cunningly contrived to unleash this remarkable and very
special state of matter, which itself is a conduit to an even
more remarkable and special state: mind. This sort of exquisite
bio-friendliness would represent an extraordinary and unexpected
bonus among nature's inventory of principles one that could be
interpreted by those of a religious persuasion as evidence of
God's ingenuity and foresight. In this version of cosmic design,
God acts not by direct intervention but by creating appropriate
natural laws that guarantee the emergence of life and mind in
cosmic abundance. The universe, in other words, is one in which
there are no miracles except the miracle of nature itself.

The E.T. debate has only just begun, but a useful starting point
is simply to acknowledge that the discovery of extraterrestrial
life would not have to be theologically devastating. The
revamped design argument offers a vision of nature distinctly
inspiring to the spiritually inclined certainly more so than
that of a cosmos sterile everywhere but on a single planet.
History is instructive in this regard. Four hundred years ago
Giordano Bruno was burned at the stake by the Church in Rome
for, among other things, espousing the notion of a plurality of
inhabited worlds. To those whose theological outlook depended on
a conception of Earth and its life forms as a singular miracle,
the very notion of extraterrestrial life proved deeply
threatening. But today the possibility of extraterrestrial life
is anything but spiritually threatening. The more one accepts
the formation of life as a natural process (that is, the more
deeply embedded one believes it is in the overall cosmic
scheme), the more ingenious and contrived (dare one say
"designed"?) the universe appears to be.

Paul Davies is a professor of natural philosophy at the
Australian Center for Astrobiology, at Macquarie University, in
Sydney. He is the author of twenty-five books, including Are We
Alone? (1995) and The Fifth Miracle: The Search for the Origin
and Meaning of Life (1998). Davies won the 1995 Templeton Prize
for Progress in Religion.







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   Sep > Sep 18

                 Orb In The White Mountains Of New Hampshire

From: Paul Wedel <webmaster@electricwigwam.com>
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 20:32:54 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 13:03:06 -0400
Subject: Orb In The White Mountains Of New Hampshire


I've put up a small web page of some pictures we took during a
recent visit to the White Mountains.

http://www.electricwigwam.com/flume

Though photographs of Orbs are rather common nowadays we found
this one rather compelling. We did not enhance the photographs
in anyway. They were taken on a Nikon Coolpix 885 digital
camera. We felt some of your list might find them intriguing and
entertaining, as we did.



Sincerely,

Paul Wedel
Webmaster
electricwigwam.com
sweetgrasspress.com
writetoprint.com
earthvoices.org

Co-Author with Michelle Wedel:
Prophecy's Edge The Alien Abduction Reference Guide






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   Sep > Sep 18

                      Repairs Improve Access To History

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 13:11:36 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 13:11:36 -0400
Subject: Repairs Improve Access To History




Source: Contra Costa Times - California

http://www.bayarea.com/mld/cctimes/news/6791339.htm

Wed, Sep. 17, 2003 story:PUB_DESC

Repairs Improve Access To History

By Monte Reel
WASHINGTON POST

WASHINGTON - The marble rotunda at the National Archives will
reopen Thursday after two years of renovations designed to make
the Constitution, the Bill of Rights and the Declaration of
Independence more accessible to visitors and less obscured by
distance, awkward angles and green-tinted glass.

Most of the structural changes inside the 75-foot-high rotunda
aim to enhance the public views of the glass-encased, animal-
skin parchments. Instead of hanging flat on the walls or resting
within tabletop displays, the new parchment cases are positioned
at easier-to-read angles. The bottom edges of the document cases
are about 28 inches from the floor, and they slant upward at 25-
degree angles.

The glass that protects the documents is clearer, thinner and
less reflective, and the documents themselves were cleaned and
partially restored. The steep walkway leading to the display
cases and the stairs in front of the cabinets are gone, allowing
wheelchair access to the documents for the first time.

"The idea was not to change the overall appearance of the
rotunda, because it's still an enormous and awe-inspiring
place," said Stacey Bredhoff, senior curator at the Archives.
"But instead we've rededicated the rotunda to charters and have
tried to make them more accessible. Before, the Declaration of
Independence, for example, was at quite a distance behind the
other cases and up on the wall, and it was nearly impossible to
see."

The Constitution will be given a complete display; previously,
only the first and last pages of the four-page document were
publicly shown due to space limitations.

"The public didn't want the Reader's Digest version, and now
we're finally able to give them the full display," said
Catherine Nicholson, a senior conservator who worked on the
parchments.

To celebrate the reopening, the Archives is keeping its doors
open from 10 a.m. to midnight Thursday, Friday and Saturday. The
steps on Constitution Avenue will be the site of evening
performances by historical re-enactors and a nightly sound and
light show. The public can also get a glimpse of some of the new
public spaces that are not yet complete but scheduled for
unveilings throughout 2004.

"The rotunda is really just the first step of a larger project,"
said Marvin Pinkert, director of museum programs for the
Archives. "Before, if it couldn't hang on a wall, we couldn't
display it. Now we'll have the chance to share a lot of things
we weren't able to before and do it in ways that engage the
public."

Before the renovations started on the 68-year-old building in
2001, the only public exhibition spaces at the Archives were the
rotunda and the narrow hallway behind it, called the Circular
Gallery. But before the end of 2005, the Archives will unveil
more than 12,000 square feet of new exhibit space, a conference
center, a learning center and a 275-seat theater that will be a
venue for new documentary films.

One of the features set to open within a year is the Public
Vaults, a permanent exhibition that aims to recreate the
experience of exploring the stacks and vaults of the Archives.
Interactive exhibits will be arranged according to themes that
highlight the different types of documents kept by the Archives.
On Saturday and Sunday, previews of the Public Vaults will be
offered from 11 a.m. to 4 p.m.

The Special Exhibition Gallery, also set to open next year, will
feature rotating exhibits on current events or popular culture,
Pinkert said. Examples could include the Archives' collection of
documents related to President Kennedy's assassination, he said,
or to Operation Blue Book, which deals with the government's
UFO-related investigations.

"We could show (government) letters, like some we have saying,
'Let the Beatles into the country,' or 'Don't let Elvis go into
the Army,' or letters praising Orson Welles and others hanging
him for 'War of the Worlds,'" Pinkert said.

Before the renovations, most of the building consisted of seven-
foot-high floors used to store records. To provide adequate
height for public spaces, six of the floors were removed and
replaced with three 14-foot levels. Because of the resulting
loss of storage space, some records were relocated to an
Archives facility in College Park, Md.

The additional exhibit space allows the rotunda to deal solely
with the charters. Before it closed two years ago, the rotunda
included 26 exhibit cases, some of which had little connection
to the charters. The new design, featuring 14 cases of original
documents, is aimed at putting the charters in context and
illustrating their historical impact. The documents include: a
1775 "agreement of secrecy" signed by the delegates to the
Second Continental Congress, which had been declared treasonous
by England's King George III; the Articles of Confederation; a
1783 Quaker petition to Congress opposing slavery; President
Lincoln's 1862 State of the Union address; and a transcript of
Susan B. Anthony's testimony in a pretrial hearing after her
arrest for voting in Rochester, N.Y.


[UFO UpDates thanks Grant Cameron - www.presidentialufo.com for
 the lead]







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   Sep > Sep 18

                          False Creek BC - 09-17-03

From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO <hbccufo@telus.net>
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 21:51:26 -0700
Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 13:34:31 -0400
Subject: False Creek BC - 09-17-03


False Creek, Vancouver, British Columbia

Date: September 17, 2003
Time: 17:08:45

Hey here is a strange pic got it from the 'Kat-Cam':

http://www.katkam.ca/

It looks out over false creek. I blew up a small Orb UFO up in
the upper left coner of the picture..

Any ideas?

Photo can be viewed at:

http://www3.telus.net/public/wilbur8/bc_2003_5.htm

Brian Vike, Director
HBCC UFO Research
-------

Chilliwack, British Columbia

Date: September 10, 2003
Time: 5:00 a.m.

About a week ago (say Sept 10, 2003) around 5:00 a.m., I saw the
same thing in the west, southwest sky. I woke up and let my dog
out; looking up in the sky I saw a very bright light, like a
star but a bit larger, and every so often it flashed different
colors - red, green blue. At first I thought it was a plane but
it did not move. Then suddenly it shifted sideways quite a
distance, then moved in a straight line back to where it was. I
watched on and off for quite a while and the flashing lights
continued but it did not seem to change position in the sky,
though it seemed to shift around once in a while. The irregular
flashing of the different colored lights and the movement was
unlike anything I have ever seen or heard of until I read the
post from Courtenay.

Thank you to the witness for sending along the report.


Brian Vike

Director HBCC UFO Research
Canadian Toll Free UFO Hotline 1 866 262 1989 - Free call.
Phone/Fax 1 250 845 2189
HBCC UFO Forum Board
http://216.147.50.102/HBCC-UFO/index.php
email: hbccufo@telus.net
Website: http://www3.telus.net/public/wilbur8/hbcc_ufo_research.htm







                         The UFO UpDates Archive
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Sep > Sep 18

                     UFO May Have Been Restaurant Lights

From: Kenny Young <ufo@fuse.net>
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 01:10:33 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 13:39:27 -0400
Subject: UFO May Have Been Restaurant Lights


Source: The Herald-Dispatch - Huntington West Virginia

http://www.herald-dispatch.com/2003/September/18/LNlist5.htm

Sept. 18, 2003

UFO May Have Been Restaurant Lights

By Tim Stephens

ROME TOWNSHIP, Ohio -- The Lawrence County UFO might have been
Ronald McDonald.

Maybe.

Reports of bright, white lights appearing to chase one another
in the skies over eastern Lawrence County might be attributed to
a spotlight used across the Ohio River by McDonald's on U.S. 60
between Huntington and Barboursville.

The lights appeared in late August and have been reported almost
each week since. Local television stations and law enforcement
departments have received telephone calls from residents curious
as to what the lights were.

While no definitive answer has been produced, the McDonald's
spotlight appears powerful enough to reach the Lawrence County
side of the Ohio River and the light does circle and reflect off
cloud cover. It is, however, just one beam, leaving unexplained
how it could be the source of two or more lights circling.

Other businesses, such as automobile dealerships and strip
clubs, along U.S. 60 use spotlights from time to time, providing
a possible explanation as to why more than one light might have
been seen.

"I saw three lights," said Tammy Hayes of Proctorville. "And
they appeared to be coming from above the clouds. That was the
creepiest part."

Also still open for explanation is the source of green lights
that some residents from Proctorville to Burlington claim to
have seen in late August.

"I'm so interested I can't stand it," Hayes said.

So are a lot of other people, including the Mutual UFO Network,
which has posted news reports about the sightings on its Web
site at The site contains information on several other Ohio UFO
sightings, including one Sept. 13 over Adams and Highland
counties and a report of a crop circle in a soybean field near
Hillsboro.

The Lawrence County sightings also supposedly included blips or
flashes of white or green lights. Green lights often are
attributed to meteors burning in the atmosphere or to flares
used by military aircraft during training exercises.

Thunderstorms also were prevalent during most of the Lawrence
County sightings, leaving open to possibility that the flashes
were lightning.

Reports of UFO sightings have increased nationwide with the
recent close approach of Mars. MUFON reports that sightings in
Bethel, Canton and Akron were reported in the same general time
as the spotting of the lights in Lawrence County.

While the lights continue to have Lawrence County residents
talking, few if any expect to see an alien spacecraft land in
their backyards.

"The only aliens I worry about are the ones crossing our borders
illegally," Mike Hall joked while shopping in Proctorville last
week.






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   Sep > Sep 18

                           Graham Birdsall Update

From: A. J. Gevaerd - Revista UFO <gevaerd@ufo.com.br>
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 10:04:22 -0300
Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 13:44:28 -0400
Subject: Graham Birdsall Update


>From: Louise A. Lowry <ShnSassy1@aol.com>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 18:23:48 -0500
>Subject: Re: UK UFO Magazine's Graham Birdsall Suffers Brain Hemorrhage

>>From: A. J. Gevaerd - Revista UFO <gevaerd@ufo.com.br>
>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>>Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 10:54:55 -0300
>>Subject: UK UFO Magazine's Graham Birdsall Suffers Brain Hemorrhage

>>I was informed by Russel Callaghan that last Thursday night
>>Graham Birdsall was taken ill at home. It was thought that he
>>had suffered a heart attack. He was rushed to hospital were
>>doctors carried out tests.


>Thank you ever so much for keeping us all inform as to what is
>happening with Graham. Please keep us updated as to his progress.


Louise and friends of the world UFO community,

I have just been updated by Russel Callaghan of Graham's
condition. The situation is very delicate and he needs some time
to recover.

As for 19th September, Graham had a seven hour operation to
repair the damage caused by the hemorrhage. Surgeons have told
the family that this was a difficult procedure but they did the
job they set out to do. Graham's recovery could be a long
process.

Russel says they are all praying for Graham to make a full
recovery.

Russel wrote in a recent e-mail: "Your kind thoughts, messages
and cards are arriving every day and I'm sure Graham will take
great comfort in reading these in the not too distant future".

Let's keep positive thoughts towards Leeds, Graham and his
family.

A. J.






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               Re: UK UFO Magazine's Graham Birdsall - Gevaerd

From: A. J. Gevaerd - Revista UFO <gevaerd@ufo.com.br>
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 10:08:40 -0300
Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 13:48:48 -0400
Subject: Re: UK UFO Magazine's Graham Birdsall - Gevaerd


>From: Stephen Bassett <SGBList2@aol.com>
>To: ufoupdates@sympatico.ca
>Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 16:13:45 EDT
>Subject: Re: UK UFO Magazine's Graham Birdsall Suffers Brain Hemorrhage

>>From: A. J. Gevaerd - Revista UFO <gevaerd@ufo.com.br>
>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>>Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 10:54:55 -0300
>>Subject: UK UFO Magazine's Graham Birdsall Suffers Brain Hemorrhage

<snip>

>>Because of this terrible situation, the cancellation of the 22nd
>>International UFO Conference and Gala Dinner is to be announced
>>by Russel at any time.

>>It is absolutely terrifying to see a great person such as Graham
>>Birdsall in such illness. But let's hope and pray for his
>>recovery soon. He is an icon for the world UFO community and a
>>great developer of this field.

>Surely there must be some supporters in the UK who can step into
>the breech and carry the work load for the Birdsall family in
>order to put on the conference in Leeds. Graham loves this
>conference, and I would think would want it to take place. Such
>events are more than just entertainment, they are key venues for
>keeping the public informed about the most profound
>circumstances - something the government and the press will not
>properly do.

>I call on the supporters of disclosure in the UK to contact
>Graham's family and Russel Callaghan and offer to help put on
>the Leeds event.


Dear Stephen:

I definitely do not think that it is the case.

Graham is in very serious condition, and his family members
are all totally dedicated to him, sleeping at the hospital.

Even with help from volunteers, the Leeds Conference is a Graham
+ Russel + Family operation, and needs them all to happen.

This year's conference would never be anything close to the
previous years ones with Graham and the family in such
situation.

A. J.







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   Sep > Sep 18

                     Imagined UFO Close Encounter Study?

From: Stephen MILES Lewis <ufoupdates@elfis.net>
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 08:59:45 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 14:03:26 -0400
Subject: Imagined UFO Close Encounter Study?


Hi UFO UpDaters,

Can any of ufolks recall a citation/site referencing the study
where they asked non-ufo experiencers/witnesses to imagine and
describe a close encounter with a UFO/Alien?

I thought it was in Jenny Randles and Peter Hough's Looking For
The Aliens, but so far I've not found it there. I am also going
to check the big MIT UFO conference book.

Any help would be much appreciated.


SMiles






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   Sep > Sep 18

                          Roger Day And The Aliens

From: Eustaquio Andrea Patounas <socex@terra.com.br>
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 12:42:00 -0300
Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 14:10:29 -0400
Subject: Roger Day And The Aliens


Source: The Cape Argus - South Africa

http://www.capeargus.co.za/index.php?fSectionId=342&fArticleId=237686

September 17, 2003


A Cape Town man believes the truth is out there - in space,
that is. His own UFO sighting set him on a quest to find what
that truth is, and his new ET Association is gaining members.

It's difficult to know what to expect when you're about to
interview the founder of the local ET Association, as in
extraterrestrials. But Roger Day of Observatory is surprisingly
ordinary in a blue tracksuit top, with deep-set blue eyes and
short hair. He's young, soft-spoken and intensely interested in
whatever's visiting our planet.

As we chat about ETs and cover-ups, I'm struck by his
conviction: the question for him is not whether there are ETs,
but why there is so much secrecy around what's going on.

And something is definitely going on, he believes.

He has a thick file documenting extensive evidence of UFO
sightings; physical evidence of ET remains; government cover-ups
of ET activity as testified to by top military officials and
scientists; and, closer to home, mysterious fireballs and ETV
sightings.

Day prefers to talk about extraterrestrial vehicles (ETVs),
rather than UFOs.

Should we be scared?

No, says Day. Of course, no one knows why ETs are visiting our
planet (and, according to some accounts, implanting "chips" in
humans), but if they were intent on harming us they wouldn't
gently put us back into bed after abducting us and wiping out
our memory of the experience. And they haven't invaded us yet.

Hogwash?

Day doesn't think so. There's too much evidence for those
willing to see and hear, he says.

He first became interested in ETs and ETVs more than 10 years
ago.

"I had a sighting in 1991. As a river guide on the Orange River,
I saw four bright white lights in a cross formation, and asked,
'Is that a UFO or an aeroplane?' Five years later when I was
reading The UFO Casebook by John Spencer, I read that same
description."

The next day Day heard about an incident in Citrusdal. A
mysterious fireball was seen by many people crashing into the
mountain. No trace was ever found - officially.

Then in August 1996, he heard a radio report about an incident
in Pretoria, where a police helicopter was dispatched to chase
an unidentified craft. "I phoned the air force's media liaison
officer in my capacity as a member of the Mutual UFO Network,
and was faxed a 10-page report on it," he said. He shows me the
fax, a questionnaire custom-made for UFO sightings.

"When I submitted questions to them, I was told it was a police
matter and the person who had spoken to me denied the
conversation with me." []


His curiosity piqued, Day set out to investigate incidents in
southern Africa.

It's surprising how many clippings he has of ETV sightings right
here in southern Africa. They include Graaff-Reinet, the
Kalahari, more recently Angola and Zimbabwe, and the latest, on
January 6 this year, in Pretoria.

His question is why there is always a denial by official
sources. Is there a cover-up?

This is where we enter the realm of conspiracy theories.

One story refers back to an event in 1947 famous as the "Roswell
Incident", a crash in the New Mexico desert in which it is
alleged an extraterrestrial vehicle and its alien occupants were
recovered. The story goes that technology on board included a
substance later named Teflon, a laser, which was appropriated
for human use, and an anti-gravity reactor, which wasn't.
Imagine the threat this would pose to the oil industry, is the
argument.

In the ET world, tales of harassment and even the death of
scientists and those who speak out are legion, and if this is
all sounding like Men In Black and movies of that ilk, don't be
surprised.

There's a lot being done to discredit ETs, Day says, via "the
laughter curtain", to ridicule the information leaking out. "The
times are changing, the cat's out the bag," he claims.

What added momentum to this belief was the Disclosure Project,
which, in May 2001, held a press conference where 21 military
and scientific experts gave evidence on alleged exposure to ETs
and ETVs.

They said they had seen physical evidence of these phenomena and
testified to this effect.

Another reason for a cover-up would be the fear of panic: how
would the public react to evidence of ETs in our midst?

Day doesn't know why ETs would want to visit our planet. "But I
don't think they're hostile and selfish, not more than we who
destroy our own planet are."

Day's aim is to raise awareness of the subject. Already he has
60 members and ETA has just held its first public meeting.

He's not fazed by the inevitable ridicule.

"It's interesting to see how people react. Many are closed-
minded, and can't entertain the thought that we're not the most
intelligent beings in the universe," he says. "Many people shut
down. But you'd be surprised how many people are relieved to
tell their stories of UFO sightings."

Could ETs simply be the product of our imaginings and projected
fears, I suggest tentatively?

"No," says Day emphatically. "There's really not a lack of
evidence."








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   Sep > Sep 18

              Re: Review: Socorro 'Saucer' In A Pentagon Pantry

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker@earthlink.net>
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 12:23:53 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 14:22:57 -0400
Subject: Re: Review: Socorro 'Saucer' In A Pentagon Pantry


>From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 10:21:28 -0500
>Subject: Re: Review: Socorro 'Saucer' In A Pentagon Pantry

>>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark@frontiernet.net>
>>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 07:35:22 -0500
>>Subject: Re: Review: Socorro 'Saucer' In A Pentagon Pantry

<snip>

>>Guys, for the sake of all of us - and most of all yourselves --
>>let's drop this. Please.

>...And quickly too! I've been feeling compelled to write an ode
>to it, and I think we all want to brake before we get to _that_
>cliff edge! <LOL>

Amen!, Alfred and Jerry. I'd shut up about almost anything to
prevent an ode! How odious! :o)


Ray Stanford

"You know my method. It is founded upon the observance of
trifles." -- Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery








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   Sep > Sep 18

                     'Strange Days... Indeed' - Sept. 20

From: Wendy Connors <FadedDiscs@comcast.net>
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 11:13:27 -0600
Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 14:24:56 -0400
Subject: 'Strange Days... Indeed' - Sept. 20


Greetings to the List:

This Saturday night on Strange Days... Indeed (10 PM EST), I will
be presenting the debate between Major Donald E. Keyhoe and
Jonathan M. Leonard, which was broadcast on November 11, 1953.

The link below will take you to the program listing.

http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/sdi/program/sdi2003.html

This was Keyhoe's first major debate regarding Air Force secrecy.


Thank you,

Wendy Connors
Faded Discs







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             Re: President Reagan's Beliefs About UFOs - Fleming

From: Lan Fleming <lfleming5@houston.rr.com>
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 12:29:24 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 15:46:50 -0400
Subject: Re: President Reagan's Beliefs About UFOs - Fleming


>From: Ken Kelly <elprospero@yahoo.com>
>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 21:51:03 -0700 (PDT)
>Subject: President Reagan's Beliefs About UFOs

>President and Mrs. Reagan were both thorough believers in the
>material reality of 'flying saucers'. This was related to me
>three or four times by my then best friend, Coral Lorenzen. I
>have no physical record of what Coral said over the telephone,
>but when President Reagan was first elected to that office, I
>remember her saying more than once "Now we have a friend in the
>White House."

>That the Reagans were long-time believers is documented in Jim
>Brochu's 'Lucy in the Afternoon: An Intimate Memoir of Lucille
>Ball'.

>To quote Ms. Ball's words on page 125:

>"...we couldn't eat until two of the other guests arrived, and
>they were almost an hour late. The tardy two were Ron and Nancy
>Reagan... They were all out of breath and so excited and said
>they couldn't't help being late because of what happened. Are
>you ready? They saw a UFO and stopped to watch it.

That must have been the first incident mentioned on the web page
I cited a couple days ago:

http://www.presidentialufo.8m.com/reagan_ufo_story.htm

It said that Steven Allen reported it first, but didn't give
Reagan's name at the time.

>After he was
>elected president, I kept thinking about that night, and
>wondered if he'd have still won if he told everybody that he'd
>seen a flying saucer."

Well, I don't know if Lucy was right about that. If the
Democrats had accused Reagan of seeing UFOs, then the
Republicans would have accused Jimmy Carter of seeing UFOs, too.
Since both accusations would have been correct, the Pentagon
would probably have had to declare a state of emergency, cancel
the election, and install Phil Klass as Acting President until
the dread epidemic of UFO mania among presidential candidates no
longer posed a threat to national security!







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   Sep > Sep 18

              Re: Orb In The White Mountains Of New Hampshire -

From: Wendy Christensen <christensen@catlas.mv.com>
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 14:31:52 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 15:50:01 -0400
Subject: Re: Orb In The White Mountains Of New Hampshire -


>From: Paul Wedel <webmaster@electricwigwam.com>
>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 20:32:54 -0400
>Subject: Orb In The White Mountains Of New Hampshire

>Though photographs of Orbs are rather common nowadays we found
>this one rather compelling. We did not enhance the photographs
>in anyway. They were taken on a Nikon Coolpix 885 digital
>camera. We felt some of your list might find them intriguing and
>entertaining, as we did.

Orbs in the Flume? Well... maybe they're tourists!

From the pix it is obviously raining. Even on a hot, dry day,
the Flume is cool and wet, with lots of water dripping into the
very narrow gorge from overhanging rocks and dense, mossy
vegetation. (A lovely place for a hike on a hot day!) At this
time of year there are still lots of flying bugs here in NH. And
birds, of course. The Flume if full of skeeters, dragonflies,
all sorts of flying and flittering critters.

Why, oh why, does the photographer jump to the conclusion that
these anomalous smears of white are something he calls "orbs?" A
falling water drop or a flying insect caught at the right time
from the right angle is a much more parsimonious (and likely)
explanation. Combine that with possible artifact(s) of digital
photography and you can see "faces" in just about any smear of
light!

BTW, I highly recommend the Flume for visitors to NH. It is
spectacular, and easy to walk. They install wooden walkways each
spring and dismantle them each fall. Also recommended: climbing
nearby Mt. Pemigewasset to the top of "Indian Head," NH's
remaining anthromorphic cliff face.


Purrrrs...

wac







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   Sep > Sep 18

             Re: Imagined UFO Close Encounter Study? - Stanford

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker@earthlink.net>
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 14:41:30 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 15:52:43 -0400
Subject: Re: Imagined UFO Close Encounter Study? - Stanford


>From: Stephen MILES Lewis <ufoupdates@elfis.net>
>To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 08:59:45 -0500
>Subject: Imagined UFO Close Encounter Study?

>Can any of ufolks recall a citation/site referencing the study
>where they asked non-ufo experiencers/witnesses to imagine and
>describe a close encounter with a UFO/Alien?

>I thought it was in Jenny Randles and Peter Hough's Looking For
>The Aliens, but so far I've not found it there. I am also going
>to check the big MIT UFO conference book.

>Any help would be much appreciated.


Hi Miles,

My daughter and granddaughter are moving from Texas to Alaska
soon :(, so I'm probably going to be down your way before too
long. Who knows, I might even make your talk at Bob McGarey's
center, if I get to Austin soon enough.

Anyhow, I just wanted to say, "Hi!"


Every good wish,

Ray Stanford

"You know my method.  It is founded upon the observance of trifles." --
Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery









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   Sep > Sep 18

                        UFO Story From The 19th Hole

From: Chris Parr <cparr@talk21.com>
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 19:59:07 +0100
Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 16:08:30 -0400
Subject: UFO Story From The 19th Hole


The West Cumbria UFO wave has intensified with another multiple
witness ufo report, once again over the coastal town of
Whitehaven England.



Source: The Whitehaven News - Cumbria UK

http://www.whitehaven-news.co.uk/

09-18-03

UFO Story From The 19th Hole

Golfers, much like anglers, may be accused of a tendency to
exaggeration and the telling of tall tales. But it was with all
seriousness that a group of six people at Whitehaven Golf Club
stood transfixed in the presence of a UFO on Sunday night. It
was the second similar sighting in Whitehaven in a matter of
weeks.

The mysterious flying object, brightly lit and initially taken
for a helicopter, travelled across the skies from above St
Benedicts School, flew over the clubhouse and dropped into the
middle of the golf course about 500 yards away from where the
group were. "It was very strange" said golf club operator Craig
Hamilton. "Five or six of us were sitting in the conservatory
having a drink. It was about 8.30pm and this large light about
five or six foot across travelled past us across the sky at
about 60 or 70 mph." It was at a constant height but there was
no noise, then it shot got about 500 yards away there was a puff
of smoke and it shot off at about 150 mph and fell to ground. It
looked more like a flame rather than a light. We wondered if it
could be a firework or a flare but it was too constant and there
was no illumination coming from it." A subsequent investigation
of the area where it appeared to fall, both that evening and the
next day revealed nothing, so the mystery remains. Three weeks
ago, on a Saturday night, a similar occurrence was sighted in
the skies over the valley area of Whitehaven.

The above article was published on Thursday 18th September

----------------------------------------------------------------

I have monitoring the Cumbrian skies over the last few years and
have noticed a significant pattern amongst the UFO sightings.
The positive and what appear to be credulous UFO sightings
generally have the ufo arriving from the Solway Firth and pass
over the coastal areas of West Cumbria before heading towards
the Lake District. This pattern has been upheld in the two
latest Whitehaven News UFO articles of UFO sightings.

On the 1st August 1999, A Chinook helicopter was seen coming
from RAF West Freugh, passed over Whitehaven at 6-20pm and
headed towards Dent mountain and passed over the lake District.
At 9-30pm on the same evening, the Chinook returned from the
lakes and passed over Whitehaven area and it was accompanied by
a oval object with approx 5ft diameter. The Chinooks
independently flying companion was about 10 metres to the left
of the Helicopter and about 5 metres below. Several witnesses
observed the Chinook and companion and seen heading towards the
West Freugh facility. Was the Chinook involved in a UAV
exercise? or is Whitehaven and West Cumbria on the "New Extra
Terrestrial Highway?"


Regards Chris

Parr





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             Re: 'Strange Days... Indeed' - Sept. 20 - Lehmberg

From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 14:08:08 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 16:11:21 -0400
Subject: Re: 'Strange Days... Indeed' - Sept. 20 - Lehmberg


>From: Wendy Connors <FadedDiscs@comcast.net>
>To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 11:13:27 -0600
>Subject: 'Strange Days... Indeed' - Sept. 20

>This Saturday night on Strange Days... Indeed (10 PM EST), I will
>be presenting the debate between Major Donald E. Keyhoe and
>Jonathan M. Leonard, which was broadcast on November 11, 1953.

>The link below will take you to the program listing.

>http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/sdi/program/sdi2003.html

>This was Keyhoe's first major debate regarding Air Force secrecy.

I'm really looking forward to this! Since reading Richard
Dolan's landmark book, UFOs And The National Security State,
I've come to understand how un-sung Maj. Keyhoe has been in
matters ufological, and I'm excited that someone (you, Ms.
Connors!) is doing something to fan that meager flame into the
solar flare it should be.


I'll be listening!

Lehmberg@snowhill.com







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   Sep > Sep 18

             Re: President Reagan's Beliefs About UFOs - Rudiak

From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@earthlink.net>
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 12:09:05 -0700
Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 16:49:32 -0400
Subject: Re: President Reagan's Beliefs About UFOs - Rudiak


>From: Ken Kelly <elprospero@yahoo.com>
>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 21:51:03 -0700 (PDT)
>Subject: President Reagan's Beliefs About UFOs

>President and Mrs. Reagan were both thorough believers in the
>material reality of 'flying saucers'. This was related to me
>three or four times by my then best friend, Coral Lorenzen. I
>have no physical record of what Coral said over the telephone,
>but when President Reagan was first elected to that office, I
>remember her saying more than once "Now we have a friend in the
>White House."

>That the Reagans were long-time believers is documented in Jim
>Brochu's 'Lucy in the Afternoon: An Intimate Memoir of Lucille
>Ball'.

The Reagan's were also believers in astrology, which they were
careful to hide from the public. Some may remember towards the
end of the Reagan administration how Mrs. Reagan's astrologer
revealed how much of Reagan's decisions were based on astrology
readings. It was a bit of a mini-scandal.

When this was in the newspapers, by chance I came across a 1980
Science Magazine, where they asked both Carter and Reagan
whether they believed in astrology. Carter simply said "No"
whereas Reagan said something to the effect, "Mrs Reagan and I
find it amusing, but of course we don't believe in it."

Since it was clear that Reagan had flat-out lied in his answer,
I thought local gossip columnist Herb Caen of the San Francisco
Chronicle might be interested in the item. I sent it off to him
and he used it in his column. He also sent me a brief note
saying, "You know they've both been stargazers for a long time."

Herb Caen had been in the business for over 50 years, received
tens of thousands of tips a year, and had the "dirt" on all the
rich and powerful. It's too bad he's not around any more. He
might have been able to tell us more regarding Reagans flying
saucer sighting..

BTW, I'm not equating belief in astrology with UFOs. I'm merely
pointing out that to politicians, both are taboo subjects. Once
he ran for President, Reagan was no more likely to publicly talk
abou his UFO sighting than to acknowledge his use of astrology.
(Unlike Carter, who also had a sighting, made a campaign theme
around it in 1976, and then had a crazy sign hung around his
neck, especially after the weird "killer rabbit" episode.)

Even if he had talked about it, Reagan was always difficult to
figure out. He often told anecdotes straight out of his movies
that he confused with historical fact. And he was clearly
getting senile during his Presidency. The line between fantasy
and fact just seemed to get more and more blurred as he got
older.


David Rudiak
www.roswellproof.com





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   Sep > Sep 18

              Re: Orb In The White Mountains Of New Hampshire -

From: Wendy Christensen <christensen@catlas.mv.com>
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 14:31:52 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 17:16:00 -0400
Subject: Re: Orb In The White Mountains Of New Hampshire -


>From: Paul Wedel <webmaster@electricwigwam.com>
>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 20:32:54 -0400
>Subject: Orb In The White Mountains Of New Hampshire

>Though photographs of Orbs are rather common nowadays we found
>this one rather compelling. We did not enhance the photographs
>in anyway. They were taken on a Nikon Coolpix 885 digital
>camera. We felt some of your list might find them intriguing and
>entertaining, as we did.

Orbs in the Flume? Well... maybe they're tourists!

From the pix it is obviously raining. Even on a hot, dry day,
the Flume is cool and wet, with lots of water dripping into the
very narrow gorge from overhanging rocks and dense, mossy
vegetation. (A lovely place for a hike on a hot day!) At this
time of year there are still lots of flying bugs here in NH. And
birds, of course. The Flume if full of skeeters, dragonflies,
all sorts of flying and flittering critters.

Why, oh why, does the photographer jump to the conclusion that
these anomalous smears of white are something he calls "orbs?" A
falling water drop or a flying insect caught at the right time
from the right angle is a much more parsimonious (and likely)
explanation. Combine that with possible artifact(s) of digital
photography and you can see "faces" in just about any smear of
light!

BTW, I highly recommend the Flume for visitors to NH. It is
spectacular, and easy to walk. They install wooden walkways each
spring and dismantle them each fall. Also recommended: climbing
nearby Mt. Pemigewasset to the top of "Indian Head," NH's
remaining anthromorphic cliff face.


Purrrrs...

wac







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   Sep > Sep 18

                Re: Could Religions Survive Discovery Of Life

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker@earthlink.net>
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 16:21:34 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 17:19:51 -0400
Subject: Re: Could Religions Survive Discovery Of Life


>From: Eustaquio Andrea Patounas <socex@terra.com.br>
>To: UFO UpDates -Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 20:51:02 -0300
>Subject: Could Religions Survive Discovery Of Life Elsewhere


>Source: The Atlantic Monthly - Australia

>http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/2003/09/davies.htm

>September 2003

>Could Earthly Religions Survive The Discovery Of Life Elsewhere
>In The Universe?

>by Paul Davies

>The recent discovery of abundant water on Mars, albeit in the
>form of permafrost, has raised hopes for finding traces of life
>there. The Red Planet has long been a favorite location for
>those speculating about extraterrestrial life, especially since
>the 1890s, when H. G. Wells wrote The War of the Worlds and the
>American astronomer Percival Lowell claimed that he could see
>artificial canals etched into the planet's parched surface.
>Today, of course, scientists expect to find no more than simple
>bacteria dwelling deep underground, if even that. Still, the
>discovery of just a single bacterium somewhere beyond Earth
>would force us to revise our understanding of who we are and
>where we fit into the cosmic scheme of things, throwing us into
>a deep spiritual identity crisis that would be every bit as
>dramatic as the one Copernicus brought about in the early 1500s,
>when he asserted that Earth was not at the center of the
>universe.


<snip>

Well, it may throw Paul Davies and his cronies into, as he says,
"...a deep spiritual identity crisis...", but I am confident it
would hardly be that intellectually and emotionally jarring to
most members of this list. If fact, I don't see how such a
discovery could throw anyone of serious, scientific mind into
such a crisis.

There is distinct and serious error in the article, too:

Davies says, "Earth and Mars are known to trade material in the
form of rocks blasted from the planets' surfaces by the violent
impacts of asteroids and comets."

Unsubstantiated!

While magmatic cumulates knocked off the surface of Mars by
cosmic impacts have arrived on earth in the form of meteorites
classified as Shergottites, Nakhlites, and Chassignites, there
is not a stitch of evidence that terrestrial materials have ever
reached the surface of Mars by natural means, unless our space
probes are considered natural means.

Consider the fact that Mars has much less gravity than earth and
a far thinner atmosphere, making it fairly easy for a sizeable
cosmic body striking at an oblique angle to knock off material
that could eventually reach earth. Then too, Mars is adjacent to
the asteroid belt in its orbit, and collision-straying asteroids
far more often will strike Mars than earth.

By contrast, the earth's much greater gravity makes it far less
likely that a cosmic impact could launch terrestrial materials
out of the atmosphere at escape velocity, to eventually arrive
on Mars. Consider, also, the much greater density of our
atmosphere, that would further reduce the velocity of materials
knocked up from earth in all but the largest impacts, wherein
gigantic cosmic bodies might conceivably leave (along the entry
path) a momentary relative vacuum, or else just blow an
'atmospheric crater' of relative vacuum open for a short while.
However, when impacts are that large (such as the Cretaceous-
Tertiary impact event about 65,000,000 years ago), the resultant
temperatures are so very great as to probably preclude the
survival of any terrestrial organisms, and any materials
launched into terrestrial escape are likely to become confined
to the earth-moon system.

It is surprising that Paul Davies, a professor of natural
philosophy at the Australian Center for Astrobiology, at
Macquarie University, in Sydney could make such an error, but he
has done so. Finally, note that no terrestrial meteorites or
impactites have ever been recovered by our probes reaching Mars.
Davies' statement is, thus, ludicrous for a professional who
should know better.

Davies also declared:

"Though the discovery of microbes on Mars or elsewhere would
ignite a passionate theological debate, the truly difficult
issues surround the prospect of advanced alien beings in
possession of intelligence and technology. Most scientists don't
think that such beings exist, but for forty years a dedicated
band of astronomers has been sweeping the skies with radio
telescopes in hopes of finding a message from a civilization
elsewhere in the galaxy. Their project is known as SETI (Search
for Extraterrestrial Intelligence)."

Davies, "Most scientists don't think that such beings exist..."
appears to be another unfounded statement. Does Davies quote a
scientific study, or even a poll among scientists, as evidence
of this? Of course not. I really suspect the opposite is true,
and that most scientists would say they think there is other
intelligence life and its technology somewhere in this vast
universe. I seem to have read somewhere of a poll or two that
indicate that, in fact. Maybe some one on-list can help us out
on that one.

Finally, Paul Davies' says:

"The more one accepts the formation of life as a natural process
(that is, the more deeply embedded one believes it is in the
overall cosmic scheme), the more ingenious and contrived (dare
one say "designed"?) the universe appears to be."

That is highly debatable. Scheme?! Ingenious?! Contrived?! The
universe that way?! I hope this guy doesn't consider himself a
scientist, even if the magazine buys his line of, IMO, covertly
religious apologia masquerading as a scientific discussion.


Ray Stanford

"You know my method. It is founded upon the observance of
trifles." -- Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery







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   Sep > Sep 18

               Re: Imagined UFO Close Encounter Study? - Pope

From: Nick Pope <nick@popemod.freeserve.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 21:58:24 +0100
Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 17:21:46 -0400
Subject: Re: Imagined UFO Close Encounter Study? - Pope


>From: Stephen MILES Lewis <ufoupdates@elfis.net>
>To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 08:59:45 -0500
>Subject: Imagined UFO Close Encounter Study?

>Hi UFO UpDaters,

>Can any of ufolks recall a citation/site referencing the study
>where they asked non-ufo experiencers/witnesses to imagine and
>describe a close encounter with a UFO/Alien?

Stephen and List,

I think this is a reference to the so-called imaginary abductees
experiment carried out in 1977 by Alvin Lawson and William
McCall. An internet search on these names will turn up the
references. I wrote about this in my book on the alien abduction
phenomenon, The Uninvited, which may be where you saw the
reference.

Much has happened since Lawson and McCall's experiments.
Whatever one's beliefs, studies into false memories and
implanted memories (Loftus, McNally, etc) should be looked at
carefully. See, for example, the article Changing Beliefs About
Implausible Autobiographical Events (Kirsch, Loftus and
Mazzoni):

http://faculty.washington.edu/eloftus/Articles/mazzloft.htm


Best wishes,

Nick Pope








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   Sep > Sep 19

               Re: UK UFO Magazine's Graham Birdsall - LeFevre

From: Charlette LeFevre <clefevre@oz.net>
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 14:41:01 -0700 (MST)
Fwd Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 03:14:55 -0400
Subject: Re: UK UFO Magazine's Graham Birdsall - LeFevre


>From: A. J. Gevaerd - Revista UFO <gevaerd@ufo.com.br>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 10:08:40 -0300
>Subject: UK UFO Magazine's Graham Birdsall


>I definitely do not think that it is the case.

>Graham is in very serious condition, and his family members
>are all totally dedicated to him, sleeping at the hospital.

>Even with help from volunteers, the Leeds Conference is a Graham
>+ Russel + Family operation, and needs them all to happen.

>This year's conference would never be anything close to the
>previous years ones with Graham and the family in such
>situation.


A.J, is it possible some speakers will still be available at the
Queen's hotel?

Perhaps the scheduled speakers and attendees can turn this into
a benefit in support for Graham?

Even though the event is cancelled, Philip Lipson, Seattle
UFO/Paranormal Group Co-coordinator is still planning on going
to the hotel the dates of the conference to at least meet people
and will not be asking for a refund. This was going to be his
first trip out to Leeds being a meek Librarian and you could say
he believes in the worthwhile aspects of the event and people.


In spirit and support,

Charlette






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   Sep > Sep 19

                Re: Could Religions Survive Discovery Of Life

From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22@fastmail.fm>
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 14:25:59 -0800
Fwd Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 03:18:20 -0400
Subject: Re: Could Religions Survive Discovery Of Life


>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker@earthlink.net>
>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 16:21:34 -0400
>Subject: Re: Could Religions Survive Discovery Of Life Elsewhere?

>>From: Eustaquio Andrea Patounas <socex@terra.com.br>
>>To: UFO UpDates -Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>>Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 20:51:02 -0300
>>Subject: Could Religions Survive Discovery Of Life Elsewhere

>>Source: The Atlantic Monthly - Australia

>>http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/2003/09/davies.htm

>>September 2003

>>Could Earthly Religions Survive The Discovery Of Life Elsewhere
>>In The Universe?

>>by Paul Davies

>>The recent discovery of abundant water on Mars, albeit in the
>>form of permafrost, has raised hopes for finding traces of life
>>there. The Red Planet has long been a favorite location for
>>those speculating about extraterrestrial life, especially since
>>the 1890s, when H. G. Wells wrote The War of the Worlds and the
>>American astronomer Percival Lowell claimed that he could see
>>artificial canals etched into the planet's parched surface.
>>Today, of course, scientists expect to find no more than simple
>>bacteria dwelling deep underground, if even that. Still, the
>>discovery of just a single bacterium somewhere beyond Earth
>>would force us to revise our understanding of who we are and
>>where we fit into the cosmic scheme of things, throwing us into
>>a deep spiritual identity crisis that would be every bit as
>>dramatic as the one Copernicus brought about in the early 1500s,
>>when he asserted that Earth was not at the center of the
>>universe.

><snip>

>Well, it may throw Paul Davies and his cronies into, as he says,
>"...a deep spiritual identity crisis...", but I am confident it
>would hardly be that intellectually and emotionally jarring to
>most members of this list. If fact, I don't see how such a
>discovery could throw anyone of serious, scientific mind into
>such a crisis.

>There is distinct and serious error in the article, too:

>Davies says, "Earth and Mars are known to trade material in the
>form of rocks blasted from the planets' surfaces by the violent
>impacts of asteroids and comets."

>Unsubstantiated!

>While magmatic cumulates knocked off the surface of Mars by
>cosmic impacts have arrived on earth in the form of meteorites
>classified as Shergottites, Nakhlites, and Chassignites, there
>is not a stitch of evidence that terrestrial materials have ever
>reached the surface of Mars by natural means, unless our space
>probes are considered natural means.

Such a concept would by necessity be purely hypothetical.  We
haven't recovered any terrestrial meteors on Mars, but it might
be that Davies was considering conditions in the early solar
system.

>Consider the fact that Mars has much less gravity than earth and
>a far thinner atmosphere, making it fairly easy for a sizeable
>cosmic body striking at an oblique angle to knock off material
>that could eventually reach earth. Then too, Mars is adjacent to
>the asteroid belt in its orbit, and collision-straying asteroids
>far more often will strike Mars than earth.

>By contrast, the earth's much greater gravity makes it far less
>likely that a cosmic impact could launch terrestrial materials
>out of the atmosphere at escape velocity, to eventually arrive
>on Mars. Consider, also, the much greater density of our
>atmosphere, that would further reduce the velocity of materials
>knocked up from earth in all but the largest impacts, wherein
>gigantic cosmic bodies might conceivably leave (along the entry
>path) a momentary relative vacuum, or else just blow an
>'atmospheric crater' of relative vacuum open for a short while.
>However, when impacts are that large (such as the Cretaceous-
>Tertiary impact event about 65,000,000 years ago), the resultant
>temperatures are so very great as to probably preclude the
>survival of any terrestrial organisms, and any materials
>launched into terrestrial escape are likely to become confined
>to the earth-moon system.
>
>It is surprising that Paul Davies, a professor of natural
>philosophy at the Australian Center for Astrobiology, at
>Macquarie University, in Sydney could make such an error, but he
>has done so. Finally, note that no terrestrial meteorites or
>impactites have ever been recovered by our probes reaching Mars.
>Davies' statement is, thus, ludicrous for a professional who
>should know better.

Davies' background is rich and varied. As a professional, I
think he should answer this question himself as it may not be as
ludicrous as it seems.  I would need more data from him before I
would reach that evaluation.

He previously held academic appointments in astronomy, physics
and mathematics at the Universities of Cambridge, London,
Newcastle upon Tyne and Adelaide. His research has spanned the
fields of cosmology, gravitation, and quantum field theory, with
particular emphasis on black holes and the origin of the
universe. His monograph Quantum Fields in Curved Space, co-
authored with former student Nicholas Birrell, is widely used.
Davies is also interested in the nature of time, high-energy
particle physics, the foundations of quantum mechanics, the
origin of life and the nature of consciousness.

I have read several of his easy-to-read books which are
informative, though I may not agree with some of his ideas.

-Bill Hamilton






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   Sep > Sep 19

              Re: Orb In The White Mountains Of New Hampshire -

From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 18:45:36 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
Fwd Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 03:20:20 -0400
Subject: Re: Orb In The White Mountains Of New Hampshire -


>From: Wendy Christensen <christensen@catlas.mv.com>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 14:31:52 -0400
>Subject: Re: Orb In The White Mountains Of New Hampshire

>>From: Paul Wedel <webmaster@electricwigwam.com>
>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>>Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 20:32:54 -0400
>>Subject: Orb In The White Mountains Of New Hampshire

>>I've put up a small web page of some pictures we took during a
>>recent visit to the White Mountains.

>>http://www.electricwigwam.com/flume

<snip>

>Why, oh why, does the photographer jump to the conclusion that
>these anomalous smears of white are something he calls "orbs?" A
>falling water drop or a flying insect caught at the right time
>from the right angle is a much more parsimonious (and likely)
>explanation. Combine that with possible artifact(s) of digital
>photography and you can see "faces" in just about any smear of
>light!

<snip>

Hi Wendy, Paul, Everyone!

Tomorrow (September 19) will be exactly 42 years since Betty and
Barney Hill had their own UFO experience in the White Mountains
while on their way home from Canada. It is also interesting to
note that in more recent years Betty has had many encounters
with mysterious lights in the sky too near her home in New
Hampshire which she believes to be E.T. visitors - just like the
ones (from the nearby Zeta Reticulli star system?) she and her
husband encountered back in 1961.

I had a look at Paul Wedel's other digital pictures of "orbs"
and my suspicions that these were artifacts common in digital
cameras whenever brighter sources are also present in the same
frame seemed to be confirmed. Notice that with Photos 1 and 2
which were taken in the dark Flume Gorge, an "orb" is found only
in the picture where the bright white water is very prominent.
Orbs are also found in two other dark pictures of the gorge
which have bright light from the sky seen through the opening in
the trees.

If you have ever taken digital pictures indoors under low light
conditions but where much brighter light sources were also
present in the frame (eg. lamps, sunlight from windows, etc.),
you know what I mean. Both digital and film cameras with multi-
 element lenses are also notorious for producing such orbs and
ghost-like reflections too.

The fact that the large orb next to the child's right arm was
not noticed by either the child or the two adults present is
strong evidence that this orb was likely something like a lense
flare rather than a real object. If this large orb was an object
in the background, it would have been immediately spotted on the
wooden walkway by the adult looking in that direction. Likewise,
if this large orb was in foreground between the camera and the
three people, it would certainly have been seen by the child and
the other adult who were both facing towards the camera.

With the growing use of video and digital cameras (and regular
film cameras too, especially with flash), we can expect to see
increasing numbers of these orbs/UFOs in the future. Yes, they
may help publishers like Graham W. Birdsall fill the many pages
of their otherwise excellent weekly magazines with such dubious
images (did you check Graham's latest issue of 'UFO Magazine'?),
and yes, they do stimulate interest in UFOs among the public,
but what is it doing to promote attention to the UFO reality by
our scientists and government or military officials?


Nick Balaskas







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   Sep > Sep 19

                     Document Extends Secrecy On Area 51

From: Eustaquio Andrea Patounas <socex@terra.com.br>
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 20:25:24 -0300
Fwd Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 03:42:06 -0400
Subject: Document Extends Secrecy On Area 51


Source: Las Vegas Sun

http://www.lasvegassun.com/sunbin/stories/nevada/2003/sep/18/091810215.html

Associated Press
September 18, 2003 at 10:59:09 PDT

CARSON CITY, Nev. (AP) - Invoking national security, President
Bush has renewed an exemption allowing the Air Force to keep mum
about its top-secret operations at Groom Lake, also known as
Area 51, in southern Nevada.

Bush signed a memorandum on Tuesday declaring it of "paramount
interest" to exempt the base from disclosing classified
information.

President Clinton first issued the exemption in 1995 in response
to two lawsuits filed by injured workers in Nevada seeking
information about the military's environmental practices at the
site. It has been renewed yearly.

In renewing the order, Bush also cited the Nevada suits brought
by injured workers and Helen Frost and Stella Kasza, widows of
two men who worked at the military base.

In their 1994 lawsuits, Frost and Kasza alleged that their
husbands were exposed to hazardous and toxic materials while
working at Groom Lake, which sits along a dry lake bed in
Lincoln County, about 90 miles north of Las Vegas. The area is
in a no-fly zone and closed to the public.

Attorney Jonathan Turley, who represents the families, said the
presidential directive keeps secret documents and testimony that
he believes would link Area 51 to the men's deaths.

"It is baffling to see the government continue to cover up what
went on at Area 51," said Turley, who is also a George
Washington University law professor. "It is clear that there
were criminal crimes and that government officials continue to
resist any disclosure that would confirm such criminal content."

The 1-page memo exempts the Air Force from following federal,
state or local solid waste and hazardous waste laws if
classified information would be disclosed.

The government has acknowledged the existence of the Groom Lake
installation but has not disclosed what it does at the facility.

The secrecy has fueled speculation about UFOs, aliens and other
strange occurrences around Area 51. Residents of the nearby town
of Rachel say the UFO talk began years ago when a Nevada Test
Site worker claimed he saw alien ships there.

Word got around and the stories haven't stopped. Even the state
got in on the UFO lore, officially naming a 98-mile stretch of
state Route 375, which runs through Rachel, the Extraterrestrial
Highway in 1996 and erecting green highway signs with images of
spaceships.









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   Sep > Sep 19

                           Graham Birdsall Passes

From: Steve Gerrard <southampton@sufog.freeserve.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 09:00:29 +0100
Fwd Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 08:26:16 -0400
Subject: Graham Birdsall Passes

Dear All


I am sorry to say that Graham Birdsall of UFO Magazine sadly
passed away this morning 19th September 2003 at 5.00 a.m. I am
sorry that I have no further information.


Steve Gerrard
Southampton UFO Group
England







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   Sep > Sep 19

                           Graham Birdsall R.I.P.

From: Andy Roberts <aj.roberts@blueyonder.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 14:09:57 +0100
Fwd Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 09:23:38 -0400
Subject: Graham Birdsall R.I.P.


Pilgrims,

Very sad news about Graham Birdsall.

I've had my ups and downs with him over the years (including the
time we almost had a punch up over the Cracoe Fell case and my
wife pushed him out of the house!). But as a 'professional
Yorkshireman' he was as bluff as they come, said what he thought
and did what he believed necessary and I always respected him
for that.

Graham had been a fixture on the UK ufological scene since the
late 1970s when he and his brother Mark first became involved
with Contact UK, and then their own organisation, YUFOS
(Yorkshire UFO Society). Their in-house magazine YUFOS Journal,
turned into UFO Magazine and eventually became a worldwide
newsstand title. Although many people (myself included) were
vociferous critics of Graham and his style of ufology we've
always given him his due for having the persistence and vision
to make a living out of the subject he loved. In the past few
years I think he realised that scepticism was an important part
of the ufological mix and graciously published many articles by
myself and Dave Clarke in UFO Magazine.

The lack of Graham in the ufological landscape and the possible
cessation of UFO Magazine as a result will alter the public
perception of UK ufology in ways we can't as yet imagine. Dave
and I hope UFO Magazine will find a way to continue. Love it or
hate it, it's the subject's monthly 'comic' in the UK and has
effectively both defined and reflected ufology in the UK over
the past decade.

With Gordon Creighton and now Graham dead, and with other old
timers such as Jenny Randles effectively sidelined due to family
problems, it seems we are seeing the end of an era in UK
ufology.


Happy Trails Graham

Andy Roberts & Dave Clarke








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                     Re: Graham Birdsall Passes - Burns

From: Max Burns <max.burns@ntlworld.com>
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 14:20:47 +0100
Fwd Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 09:25:02 -0400
Subject: Re: Graham Birdsall Passes - Burns


>From: Steve Gerrard <southampton@sufog.freeserve.co.uk>
>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 09:00:29 +0100
>Subject: Graham Birdsall Passes

>I am sorry to say that Graham Birdsall of UFO Magazine sadly
>passed away this morning 19th September 2003 at 5.00 a.m. I am
>sorry that I have no further information.

>Steve Gerrard
>Southampton UFO Group
>England

Steve and Listers,

I got on very well well with Graham and I am stunned. My deepest
sympathy to his wife Christine and family in these difficult
times.

Max Burns








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   Sep > Sep 19

                  Re: Re: Graham Birdsall Passes - Christol

From: Michael Christol <spachopr@bellsouth.net>
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 08:28:34 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 09:39:34 -0400
Subject: Re: Re: Graham Birdsall Passes - Christol


>From: Steve Gerrard <southampton@sufog.freeserve.co.uk>
>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 09:00:29 +0100
>Subject: Graham Birdsall Passes


>Dear All

>I am sorry to say that Graham Birdsall of UFO Magazine sadly
>passed away this morning 19th September 2003 at 5.00 a.m. I am
>sorry that I have no further information.


>Steve Gerrard
>Southampton UFO Group
>England


I am so sorry to hear this. Having lost my mother earlier this
year, I can sympathize with His family as well as all his
friends and admirers.

I shall hold him and his family in my prayers.

Peace Profound

Mike







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   Sep > Sep 19

                               Graham Birdsall

From: A.J. Gevaerd - Revista UFO <gevaerd@ufo.com.br>
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 11:45:59 -0300
Fwd Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 17:50:34 -0400
Subject: Graham Birdsall


Dear friends and Colleagues:

It is devastating to know that Graham is gone. He was a dear
friend and partner.

Graham was an outstanding man and UFO researcher. A loving
father and husband, a caring friend and a responsible person. A
man who has done a remarkable job for Ufology in the UK, Europe
and all over the world. He will be deeply missed.

In this sad moment I can recall that just a few weeks ago, when
Engllish UFO pioneer Gordon Creighton passed away, Graham wrote a
beautiful tribute to him. Now he is joining Creighton.

The World UFO community has lost two great men in a short period
of time.

Go in peace, my friend. You may now know the final secrets about
our "other" friends.


A. J. Gevaerd







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   Sep > Sep 19

                Re: Could Religions Survive Discovery Of Life

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker@earthlink.net>
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 12:45:07 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 17:53:31 -0400
Subject: Re: Could Religions Survive Discovery Of Life


>From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22@fastmail.fm>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 14:25:59 -0800
>Subject: Re: Could Religions Survive Discovery Of Life Elsewhere?

>>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker@earthlink.net>
>>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 16:21:34 -0400
>>Subject: Re: Could Religions Survive Discovery Of Life Elsewhere?

<snip>

>Davies' background is rich and varied. As a professional, I
>think he should answer this question himself as it may not be as
>ludicrous as it seems. I would need more data from him before I
>would reach that evaluation.

>He previously held academic appointments in astronomy, physics
>and mathematics at the Universities of Cambridge, London,
>Newcastle upon Tyne and Adelaide. His research has spanned the
>fields of cosmology, gravitation, and quantum field theory, with
>particular emphasis on black holes and the origin of the
>universe. His monograph Quantum Fields in Curved Space, co-
>authored with former student Nicholas Birrell, is widely used.
>Davies is also interested in the nature of time, high-energy
>particle physics, the foundations of quantum mechanics, the
>origin of life and the nature of consciousness.


Hi Bill,

No doubt Davies has an impressive background. Thanks for
describing it in greater depth for us. Yet, regardless how many
degrees or how much experience he has, he shouldn't have made
that statement about earth material having naturally reached
Mars. He could have legitimately discussed the probability or
improbability of purely kinetic transfer of matter from Terra to
Mars, but should have mentioned that there is zero evidence of
any material knocked up from earth reaching Mars, and good
reasons to believe that it is exceedingly unlikely. A scientist,
or anyone else, should not state something as fact when it is
purely speculation.

Let us reflect upon the fact that expertise in quantum phenomena
does not make one into an expert on impact ejection of planetary
mass into planet-to-planet transfer trajectories, or an expert
in meteoritics - a highly specialized field, itself.


Ray Stanford








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   Sep > Sep 19

              Re: Orb In The White Mountains Of New Hampshire -

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 13:37:29 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 18:01:38 -0400
Subject: Re: Orb In The White Mountains Of New Hampshire -


>From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 18:45:36 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
>Subject: Re: Orb In The White Mountains Of New Hampshire

>>From: Wendy Christensen <christensen@catlas.mv.com>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 14:31:52 -0400
>>Subject: Re: Orb In The White Mountains Of New Hampshire

>>>From: Paul Wedel <webmaster@electricwigwam.com>
>>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>>>Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 20:32:54 -0400
>>>Subject: Orb In The White Mountains Of New Hampshire

>>>I've put up a small web page of some pictures we took during a
>>>recent visit to the White Mountains.

>>>http://www.electricwigwam.com/flume

><snip>

>.>Why, oh why, does the photographer jump to the conclusion that>
>>these anomalous smears of white are something he calls "orbs?" A
>>falling water drop or a flying insect caught at the right time
>>from the right angle is a much more parsimonious (and likely)
>>explanation. Combine that with possible artifact(s) of digital
>>photography and you can see "faces" in just about any smear of
>>light!

<snip>

>I had a look at Paul Wedel's other digital pictures of "orbs"
>and my suspicions that these were artifacts common in digital
>cameras whenever brighter sources are also present in the same
>frame seemed to be confirmed. Notice that with Photos 1 and 2
>which were taken in the dark Flume Gorge, an "orb" is found only
>in the picture where the bright white water is very prominent.
>Orbs are also found in two other dark pictures of the gorge
>which have bright light from the sky seen through the opening in
>the trees.

>If you have ever taken digital pictures indoors under low light
>conditions but where much brighter light sources were also
>present in the frame (eg. lamps, sunlight from windows, etc.),
>you know what I mean. Both digital and film cameras with multi-
>element lenses are also notorious for producing such orbs and
>ghost-like reflections too.

>The fact that the large orb next to the child's right arm was
>not noticed by either the child or the two adults present is
>strong evidence that this orb was likely something like a lense
>flare rather than a real object. If this large orb was an object
>in the background, it would have been immediately spotted on the
>wooden walkway by the adult looking in that direction. Likewise,
>if this large orb was in foreground between the camera and the
>three people, it would certainly have been seen by the child and
>he other adult who were both facing towards the camera.

>With the growing use of video and digital cameras (and regular
>film cameras too, especially with flash), we can expect to see
>increasing numbers of these orbs/UFOs in the future.

Orbs which are seen visuall without flash or without known light
sources present could be anomalous.  However, orbs that appear
in pictures but are not seen at the time the pictures are taken
(or video?) are likely related to "flash orbs" described at:

http://brumac.8k.com/orb_1.html







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                   Re: Graham Birdsall Passes - McGonagle

From: Joe McGonagle <joe.mcgonagle@ntlworld.com>
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 20:32:40 +0100
Fwd Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 18:18:45 -0400
Subject: Re: Graham Birdsall Passes - McGonagle


Hello Listers,

Personally, although I met Graham very briefly on a few
occasions, I can't claim to have known him. I used to have a very
hostile stance towards him and UFO magazine (purely because of
the editorial content of the Magazine, nothing personal), but my
attitude was changed primarily by a very generous gesture which
he made on the 26th June last year.

Many of you will remember that a lot of sighting reports were
coming from the Derbyshire Dales area. On 6th December 2001, a
presentation was made by the Aetherius Society at Bonsall
village hall near Matlock. Most people attending the event were
hoping for an informative session, but were disappointed to find
that it was a pseudo-religious recruitment campaign. One person
who attended was Anthony James, an ufologist from Nottingham. He
knew Graham, and I think he must have told him about the Bonsall
fiasco. Consequently Graham, Anthony, Russ Callaghan and Omar
Fowler made a free presentation at the same venue on 26/6/02, at
which Graham gave away la large number of copies of UFO
magazine.

This generous contribution of his time and his magazines is what
altered my previous impression of Graham as a commercial
ufologist with no interest other than squeezing money out of the
subject.

It has been suggested by Chris Parr that ufologists should
mount a Skywatch this Saturday in recognition of Graham's
contribution to ufology. I can't think of a more fitting tribute
to him, and although I am working, I will spend an hour watching
the skies on my own.


Regards,

Joe McGonagle







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                              Leeds Conference

From: Philip Lipson <philiplipson@hotmail.com>
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 13:48:13 -0700
Fwd Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 18:29:49 -0400
Subject: Leeds Conference


Hello,

My name is Philip Lipson. I'm with the Seattle UFO/Paranormal
Group. I had been planning on attending the Leeds UFO
Conference, September 26th through September 28th, at the Queens
Hotel.

Unfortunately with the sad passing of Graham Birdsall, the
conference has been cancelled. I am still going to Leeds and
would like to meet with any other Ufologists and UFO buffs that
are in the area. Our group has done major conferences featuring
AJ Gaevard, Nick Redfern, Travis Walton, Peter Davenport as well
as many others as well as conducting major investigations on
Jonathan Reed, Urandir and The Brazilian bedsheet Hoax, Mel's
Hole and other things.

I will be at the Highback Hotel, near Leeds city centre, that
weekend but would be happy to meet people at The Queens Hotel
where the conference was to be held or any other convenient
venues to discuss the state of ufology with any interested
parties.

I would also like to visit UFO groups in the area.


Thanks,

Philip Lipson
Seattle UFO/Paranormal Group







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                      They Had a Close 'UFO' Encounter

From: Eustaquio Andrea Patounas <socex@terra.com.br>
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 17:50:30 -0300
Fwd Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 08:39:58 -0400
Subject: They Had a Close 'UFO' Encounter


Source: Wishaw Press - Lanarkshire, Scotland

http://iclanarkshire.icnetwork.co.uk/news/localnews/wishaw/content_objectid=1342
6335_method=full_siteid=50144_headline=-THEY%2DHAD%2DA%2DCLOSE%2D%2D%2DUFO%2D%2D
ENCOUNTER-name_page.html

September 2003

They Had a Close 'UFO' Encounter

By Kenny Smith


MORE Wishaw residents have come forward after having their own
close encounters of the UFO kind.

In last week's Wishaw Press, we reported the sighting of a green
light in the sky, above Craigneuk on Monday September 8, around
9.30pm.

The green light had been seen in the sky, at a height of around
400 feet, before shooting off in the Muirhouse direction.

Friends Rose Gillespie and Marion Vance were travelling by car
when they spotted the green light in the sky.

They read about the sighting in the Wishaw Press, and contacted
us.

Marion said: "We were coming down from Grangemouth on Monday
evening. We were about two miles from the Auchenkillen
roundabout near Cleland.

"My friend saw it first, then said 'What's that?', then I looked
up.

"It just flew right across in front of us, then dropped down a
bit, and went out of sight.

"It was very bright green, was very fast, and a bit scary. Never
in my life have I seen anything like that.

"I'd never thought there were UFOs until Monday night. I thought
what could it be, and we started talking about it on the way
down home. But when you see something like that with your own
eyes, it makes you wonder."

Rose added: "I know it wasn't a shooting star as I've sent
plenty of them in my life.

"It was very bright green, moving exceptionally fast across the
sky, then it did a little dip as if it had turned, then
vanished. It was there and gone in seconds.

"My husband said to me it would be a fancy aeroplane being
tested, but if that's how fast it's going to go, I don't want to
be on it!"

A Craigneuk resident, who asked not to be named, also saw the
green light in the sky.

He said: "My dog ran across the road to a neighbour's house. The
hackles were up on his back, and then I looked up. It was dark,
but there was this bright green light - it wasn't pulsating or
anything, but it was a bit of a shocker.

"I went, 'Oh, my', and then it just glided away. It look
massive.

"I've seen a lot of strange things in Craigneuk, but that's
something different."

East Kilbride UFO Club were informed of the sighting by a
Craigneuk man.

The club's Noel Wallace said: "We've had some sightings in the
Motherwell area in the past, but not heard of anything for a
while."

The club can be contacted through their website, at:

http://takeoff.to/EKUFO








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                        Re: Graham Birdsall - Rosales

From: Albert Rosales <,Garuda79@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 18:07:27 EDT
Fwd Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 08:42:59 -0400
Subject: Re: Graham Birdsall - Rosales


>From: A.J. Gevaerd - Revista UFO <gevaerd@ufo.com.br>
>To: <UfoUpdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 11:45:59 -0300
>Subject: Graham Birdsall

>Dear friends and Colleagues:

>It is devastating to know that Graham is gone. He was a dear
>friend and partner.

>Graham was an outstanding man and UFO researcher. A loving
>father and husband, a caring friend and a responsible person. A
>man who has done a remarkable job for Ufology in the UK, Europe
>and all over the world. He will be deeply missed.

>In this sad moment I can recall that just a few weeks ago, when
>Engllish UFO pioneer Gordon Creighton passed away, Graham wrote a
>beautiful tribute to him. Now he is joining Creighton.

>The World UFO community has lost two great men in a short period
>of time.

>Go in peace, my friend. You may now know the final secrets about
>our "other" friends.

Amen, well spoken AJ. May God show him the answers and secrets
he searched for while in this earth........


Albert Rosales








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              UFO Magazine Editor Graham W. Birdsall, 1954-2003

From: Loren Coleman <lcoleman@maine.rr.com>
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 18:23:20 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 08:44:38 -0400
Subject: UFO Magazine Editor Graham W. Birdsall, 1954-2003


Russel Callaghan of UFO Magazine UK forwards this news.....


Sent: 19 September 2003 21:02

Graham W. Birdsall (Editor UFO Magazine).

7th April 1954 - 19th September 2003

At 05:05 this morning (Friday) Graham W. Birdsall suffered heart
failure. His passing came just two days after undergoing a seven
hour operation following his recent brain haemorrhage. Graham
never regained consciousness. His wife Christine and daughters
were by his side.

Graham was this subjects pillar of strength, he brought serious
UFO research into the public domain and delivered a vociferous
message to enthusiasts and researchers around the globe.

His character, enthusiasm and his commitment to this subject
will be sadly missed.

Graham was a loving, caring husband, father and devoted
grandfather he leaves his mother, brother and sisters.

He was also my best mate.

Russel Callaghan.

Funeral arrangements have been made for 1pm on Tuesday 30th
September 2003

The service will be held at St Mary's Parish Church, Whitkirk,
Leeds.








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                Re: Could Religions Survive Discovery Of Life

From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 15:54:47 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 08:48:20 -0400
Subject: Re: Could Religions Survive Discovery Of Life


>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker@earthlink.net>
>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 12:45:07 -0400
>Subject: Re: Could Religions Survive Discovery Of Life Elsewhere?

>>From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22@fastmail.fm>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 14:25:59 -0800
>>Subject: Re: Could Religions Survive Discovery Of Life Elsewhere?

>>>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker@earthlink.net>
>>>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>>Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 16:21:34 -0400
>>>Subject: Re: Could Religions Survive Discovery Of Life Elsewhere?

><snip>

>No doubt Davies has an impressive background. Thanks for
>describing it in greater depth for us. Yet, regardless how many
>degrees or how much experience he has, he shouldn't have made
>that statement about earth material having naturally reached
>Mars. He could have legitimately discussed the probability or
>improbability of purely kinetic transfer of matter from Terra to
>Mars, but should have mentioned that there is zero evidence of
>any material knocked up from earth reaching Mars, and good
>reasons to believe that it is exceedingly unlikely.

A related question is, why is there evidence of more meteorites
apparently from Mars having ended up on Earth than similar
material from the Moon on Earth? With the Moon's much lesser
gravity than Mars, and much greater proximity to Earth, I would
expect it to be the other way around.


Jim








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                 UFO/ET & Earth Mysteries Congress 10-4/5-03

From: Tom Benson <sparkle@earthlink.net>
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 19:36:41 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 08:51:50 -0400
Subject: UFO/ET & Earth Mysteries Congress 10-4/5-03


Dear List:

The Great UFO/ET & Earth Mysteries Congress, October 4 & 5, 2003

We have an excellent lineup of speakers for the subject Congress
to be held at the Days Inn, near Bordentown, New Jersey.

Speakers are: Dolores Cannon - Conversations with Nostradamus,
Dr. Hans Holzer - The Supernatural: Explainaing the Unexplained,
Dr. T. Peter Park - Goodbye Mermaids - Hello UFO Crop circles,
Budd Hopkins - Sight Unseen - Science, UFO Invisibility and
Trangenic Beings, Rob Swiatek - The 1952 Washington, D.C.
Sightings, Dr. S. Peter Resta - Alien Abductions: Perception and
the Mental Health Establishment, Rick Fisher - The Essentials of
Ghost Hunting.

For speaker bio's, directions, costs see our website at:

www.drufo.org


Tom Benson






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                      Graham Birdsall Tribute Skywatch

From: Chris Parr <cparr@talk21.com>
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 01:39:28 +0100
Fwd Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 08:57:03 -0400
Subject: Graham Birdsall Tribute Skywatch


Although I did not agree with Mr Birdsall on a couple of
ufological issues, this was on a scale as the editor of UFOmag
for 10 years. Mr Birdsall would always make time to listen to
the Ufologist viewpoint and his charisma could deflect
negatativity and create positive results within Worldwide UFO
research.

Ufologists/UFO groups are participating in an unofficial sky
watch tonight as a Tribute to Graham.

All UFO groups, worldwide, are welcome to participate. If any UK
groups/independent researchers/enthusiasts have not been
notified then please join the sky watch - tonight.


Ufology has suffered a major loss


c.parr







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                  Re: Imagined UFO Close Encounter Study? -

From: Stephen MILES Lewis <ufoupdates@elfis.net>
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 07:20:21 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 09:02:58 -0400
Subject: Re: Imagined UFO Close Encounter Study? -


>From: Stephen MILES Lewis <ufoupdates@elfis.net>
>To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 08:59:45 -0500
>Subject: Imagined UFO Close Encounter Study?

>Hi UFO UpDaters,

>Can any of ufolks recall a citation/site referencing the study
>where they asked non-ufo experiencers/witnesses to imagine and
>describe a close encounter with a UFO/Alien?

>I thought it was in Jenny Randles and Peter Hough's Looking For
>The Aliens, but so far I've not found it there. I am also going
>to check the big MIT UFO conference book.

>Any help would be much appreciated.

>SMiles

Thanks to everyone who responded (on and off list).

I didn't realize the study was from the late '70s. I thought it
had been done in the '80s.


SMiles








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               Re: Imagined UFO Close Encounter Study? - Lewis

From: Stephen MILES Lewis <ufoupdates@elfis.net>
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 07:36:22 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 09:07:28 -0400
Subject: Re: Imagined UFO Close Encounter Study? - Lewis


>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker@earthlink.net>
>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 14:41:30 -0400
>Subject: Re: Imagined UFO Close Encounter Study?

>>From: Stephen MILES Lewis <ufoupdates@elfis.net>
>>To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>>Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 08:59:45 -0500
>>Subject: Imagined UFO Close Encounter Study?


>Hi Miles,

>My daughter and granddaughter are moving from Texas to Alaska
>soon :(, so I'm probably going to be down your way before too
>long. Who knows, I might even make your talk at Bob McGarey's
>center, if I get to Austin soon enough.

>Anyhow, I just wanted to say, "Hi!

>Every good wish,

>Ray Stanford

Hi Ray,

Great to hear from you! I've been meaning to contact you to let
you know about the Anomaly Archives lending library I have
started that is to (initially) be headquartered at the Human
Potential Center.

I hope your family has a safe and successful move to the Great
White North.

It would be great to see you at my talk next week.

Thanks for saying "Hi!"

I was very excited to read of your return to public UFO forums.

Welcome... and... I hope to see you soon.

SMiles






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                  Re: Could Religions Survive Discovery Of

From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 06:39:37 -0700
Fwd Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 09:11:23 -0400
Subject: Re: Could Religions Survive Discovery Of


>From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 15:54:47 -0700
>Subject: Re: Could Religions Survive Discovery Of Life Elsewhere?

>>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker@earthlink.net>
>>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 12:45:07 -0400
>>Subject: Re: Could Religions Survive Discovery Of Life Elsewhere?

>>>From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22@fastmail.fm>
>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>>Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 14:25:59 -0800
>>>Subject: Re: Could Religions Survive Discovery Of Life Elsewhere?

>>>>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker@earthlink.net>

[snip -LH]

>>No doubt Davies has an impressive background. Thanks for
>>describing it in greater depth for us. Yet, regardless how many
>>degrees or how much experience he has, he shouldn't have made
>>that statement about earth material having naturally reached
>>Mars. He could have legitimately discussed the probability or
>>improbability of purely kinetic transfer of matter from Terra to
>>Mars, but should have mentioned that there is zero evidence of
>>any material knocked up from earth reaching Mars, and good
>>reasons to believe that it is exceedingly unlikely.

>A related question is, why is there evidence of more meteorites
>apparently from Mars having ended up on Earth than similar
>material from the Moon on Earth? With the Moon's much lesser
>gravity than Mars, and much greater proximity to Earth, I would
>expect it to be the other way around.

>Jim


Hello Jim, Ray..

I'm way out of my field here, but want to toss in a few pennies
worth.

As I understand it, any planet (any massive object at all
really) creates a sort of gravity-well .. i.e. a hole in the
ground (space) where things selectively fall in rather than out.

But! Given cometary or meteoric collisions with enough energy, a
few pieces of this or that could pop out.

One lesson in point is called "back-streaming" in semiconductor
land. Given enough molecules of pump oil say, a few of them, a
microscopic but important fraction of them will actually climb
"uphill" by sheer chance.

Given this, its not hard to imagine some small shards of Earth
matter flying out into the Asteroid Belt after a terrific
collision here .. for example the ones thought to have caused
massive extinctions.

If you accept that, the "Earthspermia" idea is not so entirely
far fetched. It still seems easier for Mars stuff to fall this
way than the other way around, yes.

If any simple life is ever found on Mars, scientists will
probably argue violently about which planet infected the other.
I will thoroughly enjoy that discussion (unlike some others) if
I live that long.



Best wishes

- Larry Hatch







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              Re: UFO/ET & Earth Mysteries Congress 10-4/5-03 -

From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 06:42:47 -0700
Fwd Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 09:13:14 -0400
Subject: Re: UFO/ET & Earth Mysteries Congress 10-4/5-03 -


>From: Tom Benson <sparkle@earthlink.net>
>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 19:36:41 -0400
>Subject: UFO/ET & Earth Mysteries Congress 10-4/5-03

>Dear List:

>The Great UFO/ET & Earth Mysteries Congress, October 4 & 5, 2003

>We have an excellent lineup of speakers for the subject Congress
>to be held at the Days Inn, near Bordentown, New Jersey.

>Speakers are: Dolores Cannon - Conversations with Nostradamus,
>Dr. Hans Holzer - The Supernatural: Explainaing the Unexplained,
>Dr. T. Peter Park - Goodbye Mermaids - Hello UFO Crop circles,
>Budd Hopkins - Sight Unseen - Science, UFO Invisibility and
>Trangenic Beings, Rob Swiatek - The 1952 Washington, D.C.
>Sightings, Dr. S. Peter Resta - Alien Abductions: Perception and
>the Mental Health Establishment, Rick Fisher - The Essentials of
>Ghost Hunting.

>For speaker bio's, directions, costs see our website at:

>www.drufo.org

>Tom Benson


Dear Tom:

I regret that I will miss the Essentials of Ghost Hunting and
other interesting matters.

- Larry Hatch






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   Sep > Sep 21

                    Radio Shows On Some Important Events

From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO <hbccufo@telus.net>
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 10:52:15 -0700
Fwd Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 09:14:48 -0400
Subject: Radio Shows On Some Important Events


Hi List

Here is an update for shows I will be doing, or on. On a couple
of them you will be able to listen in on the Missing Time case I
am working on. Plus tonight one of the ladies will be on air
talking about what took place.

On the Jeff Rense radio show on October 9, 2003 (time still not
set), both of the ladies will be talking with Jeff and myself
about their experience. This will be a show not to miss I.

So here is the stuff I am up to for now.

Take care
Brian
HBCC UFO Research

Don't forget, listen to Strange Days Indeed with Errol tonight
for an incredable story.

http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/sdi/program/sdi2003.html

Weekly Radio Shows With  HBCC UFO Research.

CJFW FM Radio Terrace, B.C. host Adam Thompson (weekly)

KBS Radio Trail, B.C. host Wayne Kelly (weekly)

Tonight - HBCC with Strange Days Indeed - Sept. 20, 2003 at 8:00
p.m. PST - (Missing Time Witness)

Upcoming -HBCC with The Lou Gentile Show  - Monday,  Sept. 29,
2003 from 7 pm to 9 pm PST

Upcoming - HBCC with - Jeff Rense Program, - October 9, 2003.
Missing Time (both ladies involved)

Upcoming - HBCC on The Magnificent Obsessions - UFO Documentary,
Life Network








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                        Re: Graham Birdsall - Bright

From: Dan Bright <dan@theunexplained.info>
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 19:50:47 +0100
Fwd Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 09:15:53 -0400
Subject: Re: Graham Birdsall - Bright


Dear listers,

I'd just like to echo the sentiments expressed by so many in
offering my sincere condolences to Mr. Birdsall's family and
friends.

I did not know Mr. Birdsall personally, however his dedication
to publicising UFOlogy in the UK served to intrigue my own
interest in the field, as I browsed through my first copy of UFO
Magazine, many moons ago. For that, I remain truly grateful.

Perhaps one of the greatest legacies left by Graham Birdsall are
the countless people who were inspired to consider UFOlogy in a
serious manner through his energy and enthusiasm for the
subject, made manifest in UFO Magazine. He leaves us having
gifted a positive influence to so many who, like myself, were
not fortunate enough to have made his personal acquaintance.


With respect,

Dan Bright
dan@theunexplained.info
www.theunexplained.info







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                             Re: Graham Birdsall

From: Robert <ufologist@hypermax.net.au>
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 18:08:31 +1000
Fwd Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 09:24:05 -0400
Subject: Re: Graham Birdsall


My sincere condolances to Graham's wife Christine and daughters
for his shock passing from Diane and I of The Australasian
Ufologist Magazine and all tha UFO researchers from 'Down
Under'.

It is often said that it is not the destination but the journey
that one should that note of. And Graham, who led by example,
has done just that. His accomplishments will stay with us for
some time to come. And now, in death, hes got the last laugh
over all of us. He knows the truth of what UFOs are all about!

He will be sorely missed by us all.

Cheers


Robert Frola







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                    Re: Graham Birdsall Passes - Harrison

From: Diane Harrison - AUFORN <auforn@hypermax.net.au>
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 19:14:41 +1000
Fwd Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 09:27:12 -0400
Subject: Re: Graham Birdsall Passes - Harrison


>From: Steve Gerrard <southampton@sufog.freeserve.co.uk>
>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 09:00:29 +0100
>Subject: Graham Birdsall Passes

>I am sorry to say that Graham Birdsall of UFO Magazine sadly
>passed away this morning 19th September 2003 at 5.00 a.m. I am
>sorry that I have no further information.

Dear Christine Family and list

It is a sad day for English ufology Graham will be sadly missed
by everyone and we know it was through Grahams dedication drive
and love of the UFO subject that made the UK UFO magazine and
English Ufology what it is today.

We will miss his bright personality his warmth and his
willingness to always have a chat no matter what hour of the day
you called him, and I used to forget the time differences but
he would say "its okay Di don't worry I'm awake now and laugh".

I am still in shock as I thought like others that Graham was
going to be around for a long time to come and I know his sudden
parting will create a void in everyone's life.

I send my prays too Christine "his rock" his 2 lovely daughters
the Gran children and his brother Mark in their hours of
sadness," please know we in Australia are thinking of you all".

I send this message to Graham

Graham you leave us now in a physical way but your legacy will
be remembered forever and if you get a chance to read all these
e-mail then you will know, we all want you to convince the ETs
to come clean and let us have the big story and we know if
anyone can convince them.

"You can"


From all the AUFORN team, God bless dear friend we will miss
you.


Diane Harrison

National Director
The Australian UFO Research Network








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                          New At Magonia - 09-21-03

From: John Rimmer <jrimmer@magonia.demon.co.uk>
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 18:01:48 +0100
Fwd Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 21:28:45 -0400
Subject: New At Magonia - 09-21-03


Diego Zuniga's account of the strange "Friendship Island" affair
in Chile is now in the Magonia website archive:

http://www.magonia.demon.co.uk/arc/00/friendship.htm


John Rimmer
Magonia Magazine
www.magonia.demon.co.uk/arc/00/newmag.htm





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   Sep > Sep 21

              Re: President Reagan's Beliefs About UFOs - Gates

From: Robert Gates <RGates8254@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 14:55:06 EDT
Fwd Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 21:30:33 -0400
Subject: Re: President Reagan's Beliefs About UFOs - Gates


>From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@earthlink.net>
>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 14:12:32 -0700
>Subject: Re: President Reagan's Beliefs About UFOs

>Subject: Re: President Reagan's Beliefs About UFOs

>List,

>Sorry, I mislabeled the thread as "More Bentwaters Information"
>the first time around. Post in haste, regret in leisure.

>>From: Ken Kelly <elprospero@yahoo.com>
>>Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 21:51:03 -0700 (PDT)
>>Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 12:09:47 -0400
>>Subject: President Reagan's Beliefs About UFOs

>>President and Mrs. Reagan were both thorough believers in the
>>material reality of 'flying saucers'. This was related to me
>>three or four times by my then best friend, Coral Lorenzen. I
>>have no physical record of what Coral said over the telephone,
>>but when President Reagan was first elected to that office, I
>>remember her saying more than once "Now we have a friend in the
>>White House."

>>That the Reagans were long-time believers is documented in Jim
>>Brochu's 'Lucy in the Afternoon: An Intimate Memoir of Lucille
>>Ball'.

>The Reagan's were also believers in astrology, which they were careful to
>hide from the public. Some may remember towards the end of the Reagan
>administration how Mrs. Reagan's astrologer revealed how much of Reagan's
>decisions were based on astrology readings. It was a bit of a
>mini-scandal.

David,

What I remembered was that Nancy was into astrology and
consulted an astrologer about few/some/all decisions. As I
recall then a linkage was made because Reagan talked to Nancy
and Nancy talked to the astrologer, then decisons were guided by
the astrologer.


Cheers,

Robert







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                      SDI #258 - A Night At The Fights!

From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 14:39:52 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 21:32:36 -0400
Subject: SDI #258 - A Night At The Fights!


...Went to the fights Saturday night! It was very film noir and
early fifties! You could almost smell the nitrate in the black
and white film! This was a straight-up fight between two guys
not many have heard of, Major Donald E. Keyhoe and Dr. Jonathan
M. Leonard, though it was a significant battle by named worthies
showing much heart and conviction! The reputations and fortunes
of two divergent camps hung ponderously in the balance with the
contest, and a witness to the fight just _knew_ that whoever
walked away from this conflict would set the tone for much of
the attitude of an ongoing humanity. History was made on
Saturday night, November 11, 1953, a battle decidedly WON
astonishingly, and no one would know it again (but for Wendy
Connors on SDI) until September 11, 2003.

What a shame that fight of so long ago was fixed, and the
*Boxing Commission* itself to blame! Half a century later we
come to know that the outcome of the fight, unbeknownst to the
valiant Major Keyhoe, was a forgone conclusion. The arguments of
reflexive Pelicanists were dashed on the rocks of rationality 50
years ago, almost to the day, yet, the Pelicanists still fly
high and proud, presently, half a century later, mouthing their
unctuous CSICOPian platitudes like they remotely have a case!

Two human generations ago... the battle began, was fought, and
then decisively won (Wendy and Errol are there at ringside to
give us the blow by blow!)! Round after round Keyhoe would dance
out of his corner to deliver a flurry of trip-hammer jabs, right
crosses, slashing uppercuts, and round-house hay-makers! Dr.
Leonard tried to appear as if the punches had no effect and
pretended that they were absorbed within his weak backpedaling
defense. It was to no avail; the blood was running freely from
Dr. Leonard's eyes and cheeks. Major Keyhoe never got a mark on
him! Dr. Leonard never landed a _glove_!

The only thing that can be said about Dr. Leonard was that
(miraculously!) he stayed on his feet. He should have gone down
like a sack of wet road-kill, and would have if he had an once
of imagination, a shred of rationality, or a soupcon decency...

Verily, Keyhoe won every round, landed every punch, and didn't
break a sweat. Leonard floated ineffective marshmallow punches
of conventional wisdom and doted on the veracity of agencies
that have never earned their veracity to begin with and lose
more of it every day. This writer was _embarrassed_ for Dr.
Leonard!

Keyhoe was sense and sensibility. Leonard was contentious party-
line. Keyhoe was clear-eyed and forthright! Leonard was blind
and duplicitous. Keyhoe was studied and ready. Leonard was the
antithesis of those things and employed a fallacious battle
plan... doting on specious appeals to authority and outright
misdirection (...when he told America that Project Twinkle never
saw anything. Twinkle saw -plenty- according to Dr. Maccabee,
but that was a fact obfuscated with all the rest of Major
Keyhoe's unassailable facts, better logic, and superior
performance).

The fight (debate) was not a contest! Kehoe fought and WON...
but was lugubriously shined on by the nascent though growing
military industrial complex (highlighted later by Richard
Dolan)... and the fight was badly called!

Keyhoe won, by all the earnest gods and sainted sinners, and had
we been allowed to acknowledge that at the TIME we would all be
living in a much more expressive, expansive, and further
reaching world of wider horizons than we presently enjoy! You
can bet on THAT!

That's enough... Thank you Errol and Wendy for a very
entertaining, inspiring, and educational segment!


Lehmberg@snowhill.com

Photo Album: http://www.alienview.net/AVAlbum.htm
(send picture as attachment to Lehmberg@snowhill.com)
Splash page:  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AlienViewGroup/
Radio Show & Splash Page: http://www.alienview.net/alienviews.htm
Radio Show Archives: Out of Service at this time...







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                Re: Could Religions Survive Discovery Of Life

From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 20:17:22 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
Fwd Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 21:36:30 -0400
Subject: Re: Could Religions Survive Discovery Of Life


>From: Jim Deardorff <deardorj@proaxis.com>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 15:54:47 -0700
>Subject: Re: Could Religions Survive Discovery Of Life Elsewhere?

>>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker@earthlink.net>
>>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 12:45:07 -0400
>>Subject: Re: Could Religions Survive Discovery Of Life Elsewhere?

>>>From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22@fastmail.fm>
>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>>Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 14:25:59 -0800
>>>Subject: Re: Could Religions Survive Discovery Of Life Elsewhere?

<snip>

>>No doubt Davies has an impressive background. Thanks for
>>describing it in greater depth for us. Yet, regardless how many
>>degrees or how much experience he has, he shouldn't have made
>>that statement about earth material having naturally reached
>>Mars. He could have legitimately discussed the probability or
>>improbability of purely kinetic transfer of matter from Terra to
>>Mars, but should have mentioned that there is zero evidence of
>>any material knocked up from earth reaching Mars, and good
>>reasons to believe that it is exceedingly unlikely.

>A related question is, why is there evidence of more meteorites
>apparently from Mars having ended up on Earth than similar
>material from the Moon on Earth? With the Moon's much lesser
>gravity than Mars, and much greater proximity to Earth, I would
>expect it to be the other way around.

Hi Jim, Ray, Bill!

This past Wednesday I attended a special SEDS seminar by York
University physicist Dr. Wayne Cannon. Wayne's talk was titled
'Interplanetary Navigation: How To Get "There" From "Here"' and
included details on his contribution in getting the slow moving
Japanese spacecraft Nozomi (which cannot do it with the little
remaining fuel it has) to still be able to achieve its goal of
reaching Mars after it was launched back in July 1998. The
technique to do this involves using the gravitational fields
around large solar system objects to redirect Nozomi towards
Mars and also to give it the necessary higher velocity "kick"
needed to get there. It now looks like this Japanese spacecraft
(with an important Canadian experiment onboard) will arrive at
the Red Planet at the same time as two U.S. and on British
spacecraft.

I agree with Jim that it is easier for Moon rocks rather than
Mars rocks to reach Earth (the Moon is always about 1/4 million
miles away but Mars and Earth can be as much as hundreds of
millions of miles apart when they are at opposite sides in their
orbits around the Sun) and so there should be a larger
probability of finding Moon rocks on the Earth. In fact, I have
been shown some of these suspected Moon rocks recovered on Earth
by Dr. Richard Herd, Geological Survey of Canada scientist and
Curator of the National Meteorite Collection of Canada when I
last visited him (with some suspected UFO crash debris I wanted
to have tested there). Using the same technique the Japanese
used to get their spacecraft from Earth to Mars, Nature can also
use it to transport Earth rocks that have been blown off its
surface to Mars or other worlds further out from the Sun.

If DNA based life is indeed found on Mars, this will certain NOT
be proof that life originated and exists in other places of the
universe since it could have been life containing Earth rocks
that seeded the life on Mars. Living organisms on Mars would
then have us as their ancestors!

As for the question "Could religions survive discovery of life
elsewhere?", the simple answer is - Yes! Religions readily
accept many things such as spirits, demons, angels or gods from
heaven or other worlds and acknowledge that the universe is so
vast that everything is not knowable to the believer. The real
question we should be asking ourselves is "Could present-day
science survive discovery of life elsewhere?". From recent past
history alone, I think we can safely predict that religions will
be around for many more years to come while science will have
evolved to a higher level of understanding and closed the gap a
little more between the two.


Nick Balaskas








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                            Betty Hill's Illness

From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 18:01:44 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
Fwd Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 21:42:50 -0400
Subject: Betty Hill's Illness


-----

Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 12:03:39 -0500
From: Derrel W Sims <derrelwsims@yahoo.com>
To: derrelwsims@yahoo.com
Subject: Betty Hill's Illness


My Dear friend and fellow abductee, K. T. Frankovich, informs me
of Ms. Betty Hill's medical condition this day:

Betty Hill (of the famous Betty and Barney Hill story) is now 80
years of age, and has lung cancer.

She has chemotherapy 5 days a week for 6 weeks.

She is not on computer, but dearly loves to read mail. Would you
be kind enough to write her? She has put all she has on the line
for the phenomena. Would you write her a letter to let her
know your thinking of her?

She is not well in health to return the mails, but will read
them all.

Here is her address:

Betty Hill
953 State St.
Portsmouth, NH, 03801-4554

Most Sincerely yours,

Derrel Sims


-----

Greetings everyone!

I had the pleasure of meeting Betty Hill at the 2002 MUFON UFO
Symposium in Rochester, New York. Although I had read about the
UFO experience Betty and her husband Barney had back in 1961
(the only modern UFO experience, in my opinion, that provided
very compelling evidence* that we are not alone in the
universe), this was my first time seeing her in person.

Betty is a kind and friendly person who made me feel like I knew
her all my life. Let us all pray that our dear friend Betty has
a quick and full recovery.

Nick

*Betty still has the same dress she wore on that eventful trip
home from Montreal through the White Mountains of New Hampshire.
This item of physical evidence from a very important event in
ufology could very well provide the actual proof for the ET
origin of UFOs.







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                     Kamloops, British Columbia 09-18-03

From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO <hbccufo@telus.net>
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 19:21:41 -0700
Fwd Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 21:52:06 -0400
Subject: Kamloops, British Columbia 09-18-03


Kamloops, British Columbia

Date:  September 18, 2003
Time:  Approx: 7:00 p.m.

On Thursday, September 18th/03 (shortly after 7PM I think) I
witnessed a white spherical object moving in roughly an east to
west direction over Kamloops.  It was not yet dark.

I estimate the circumference of the object at about 3/4 of the
size of a dime held at arms length.

I was sitting on my balcony in (deleted by HBCC UFO) facing east
and south watching a thick lower cloud cover get fiercely blown
- roughly from west to east (possibly southwest to northeast?).
 We had very strong winds that afternoon and evening. The sky
was not fully overcast and there were two levels of cloud cover.
 The upper cloud layer was much less dense, more dispersed, and
did not move nearly as rapidly as the lower cloud cover.

As I looked up between, say, +/-35 degrees to the horizon I saw
a perfectly round very white object come into my view moving
slowly in a straight line roughly east to west (possibly
northeast to southwest) above the lower cloud cover (at roughly
the same level as the upper cloud cover).  In any event it
appeared to be moving in the direction opposite to the wind.

I observed this object between 30 seconds to 60 seconds.
 Towards the end of the sighting the object appeared to smoothly
turn away from me slightly as it moved into clouds in the upper
cloud layer where I could no longer see it.  It did not reemerge
that I could see.

I cannot estimate the size of this object.  I am not
particularly good at distances and my only real frames of
reference are the two layers of cloud cover.  I don't know the
elevations.

I believe it shifted direction slightly because it appeared to
reduce somewhat in size before it entered the upper clouds - as
if it had turned away and was receding into the distance.

I won't hazard a guess at the size of the object but I will
stand on the fact that it was white, perfectly round, and it
moved against the direction of the lower cloud cover.

Has anyone else been reporting sightings of objects in the sky
around Kamloops recently?


Brian Vike, Director

HBCC UFO Research
Canadian Toll Free UFO Hotline 1 866 262 1989 - Free call.
Home - Phone/Fax 1 250 845 2189
HBCC UFO Forum Board
http://216.147.50.102/HBCC-UFO/index.php
email: hbccufo@telus.net
Website: http://www3.telus.net/public/wilbur8/hbcc_ufo_research.htm








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   Sep > Sep 22

                       Re: Graham Birdsall - Bourdais

From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais@wanadoo.fr>
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 12:12:47 +0200
Fwd Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 10:38:46 -0400
Subject: Re: Graham Birdsall - Bourdais


>From: A.J. Gevaerd - Revista UFO <gevaerd@ufo.com.br>
>To: <UfoUpdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 11:45:59 -0300
>Subject: Graham Birdsall

>Dear friends and Colleagues:

>It is devastating to know that Graham is gone. He was a dear
>friend and partner.

>Graham was an outstanding man and UFO researcher. A loving
>father and husband, a caring friend and a responsible person. A
>man who has done a remarkable job for Ufology in the UK, Europe
>and all over the world. He will be deeply missed.

>In this sad moment I can recall that just a few weeks ago, when
>Engllish UFO pioneer Gordon Creighton passed away, Graham wrote a
>beautiful tribute to him. Now he is joining Creighton.

>The World UFO community has lost two great men in a short period
>of time.

>Go in peace, my friend. You may now know the final secrets about
>our "other" friends.


AJ and The List

Yes, "devastating" is the right word, because Graham was  pillar
for international ufology. I met him  in Brasilia,  in Leeds and
Laughlin, and I always saw him as one of the reliable
researchers in the field. He would never have supported dubious
people like Rael and Urandir.

Let's hope that his magazine and the conferences will continue.


Gildas Bourdais







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                    Re: New At Magonia - 09-21-03 - Hatch

From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 11:42:09 -0700
Fwd Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 17:38:15 -0400
Subject: Re: New At Magonia - 09-21-03 - Hatch


>From: John Rimmer <jrimmer@magonia.demon.co.uk>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 18:01:48 +0100
>Subject: New At Magonia

>Diego Zuniga's account of the strange "Friendship Island" affair
>in Chile is now in the Magonia website archive:

>http://www.magonia.demon.co.uk/arc/00/friendship.htm

>John Rimmer
>Magonia Magazine
>www.magonia.demon.co.uk/arc/00/newmag.htm


Hello John:

Benevolent blonde beings cure cancer! All that's missing is
their flowing robes (and of course the geographical
coordinates). One fellow even threw in chupacabras... now
there's an odd mix. Angelic soap opera beings cure cancer while
their pet chupacabras wreak havoc in the barnyard. A good read!
This is the first I heard of Friendship Island.


Best wishes

- Larry Hatch







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   Sep > Sep 22

               Re: SDI #258 - A Night At The Fights! - Connors

From: Wendy Connors <FadedDiscs@comcast.net>
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 09:51:54 -0600
Fwd Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 17:44:56 -0400
Subject: Re: SDI #258 - A Night At The Fights! - Connors


>From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
>To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 14:39:52 -0500
>Subject: SDI #258 - A Night At The Fights!

<snip>

>Thank you Errol and Wendy for a very entertaining, inspiring,
>and educational segment!

>Lehmberg@snowhill.com

Alfred,

It was our pleasure and we are certainly glad you enjoyed the
audio retrospective. More will follow as the months pass, so
stayed tuned to 'Strange Days...Indeed,' with EBK... and yours
truly.


Thanks again,

Wendy







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                          Secrecy News -- 09/22/03

From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood@fas.org>
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 12:14:02 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 17:47:15 -0400
Subject: Secrecy News -- 09/22/03


SECRECY NEWS
from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy
Volume 2003, Issue No. 78
September 22, 2003


**   BUSH EXECUTIVE ORDER TAKES EFFECT
**   SCIENCE ADVISOR GETS TOP SECRET CLASSIFICATION AUTHORITY
**   NEW PUBLICATIONS
**   A NOD TO GALILEO


BUSH EXECUTIVE ORDER TAKES EFFECT

President Bush's Executive Order on national security
classification and declassification, which was issued last
March, came into force today, September 22.

Executive Order 13292, which was framed as an amendment to
President Clinton's 1995 Executive Order 12958 rather than a
replacement of it, preserves the basic structure of its
predecessor.

In particular, the Bush order endorses the requirement for
automatic declassification, while deferring its effective date
for a few years.  Thus, according to a new implementing
directive published today:

"No later than December 31, 2006, all classified records that
are more than 25 years old and have been determined to have
permanent historical value will be automatically declassified
whether or not the records have been reviewed."

The idea of declassifying a record without review is a radical
innovation that challenges the deepest instincts of security
bureaucrats.  But it offers the only practical hope of making
the huge backlog of classified historical records publicly
available.  Still, it remains a hope, not yet a fact.

"As much as we've been talking about automatic declassification
for the last several years, we have yet to automatically
declassify a single document," said William Leonard, director of
the Information Security Oversight Office (ISOO), who issued
today's implementing directive. "But now we are on a path to
make that happen."

Mr. Leonard spoke September 16 at a presentation before the
American Society of Access Professionals.

He recalled that "In the one conversation I've had on the
subject with the National Security Adviser [Condoleeza Rice],
she said, 'We have to make that December 2006 deadline [for
automatic declassification] a reality'."

A copy of ISOO Directive No. 1 on classified national security
information, published in the Federal Register on September 22,
may be found here:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/isoo/directive1.html


SCIENCE ADVISOR GETS TOP SECRET CLASSIFICATION AUTHORITY

President Bush last week granted the Director of the White House
Office of Science and Technology Policy (OSTP) the authority to
classify information Top Secret.  The OSTP Director previously
had authority to classify only up to the Secret level.

The White House did not provide a justification for the move,
which modestly increases the stature of the White House science
advisor.

In the past two years, the President has delegated new
classification authority to the heads of the Department of
Health and Human Services, the Environmental Protection Agency,
and the Department of Agriculture.

As of last year, there were a total of 4,006 persons in the
executive branch authorized to generate classified information
("original classification authorities"), according to the
Information Security Oversight Office.

A copy of the President's September 17 designation of the OSTP
Director as a Top Secret classification authority may be found
here:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/bush/ostp.html


NEW PUBLICATIONS

A speech from the Attorney General is not enough to assure many
Americans that their rights are being respected and their
interests protected.  A concern that the government has
overstepped its lawful boundaries in the name of confronting
terrorism is now practically mainstream.

"Two years after the terror attacks of 9/11, the relationship
between the U.S. government and the people it serves has
dramatically changed," according to a new report by the Lawyers
Committee for Human Rights.  "This 'new normal' of U.S.
governance is defined by 'the loss of particular freedoms for
some, and worse, a detachment from the rule of law as a whole'."

See "Assessing the New Normal: Liberty and Security for the
Post-September 11 United States," Lawyers Committee on Human
Rights, September 2003:

http://www.lchr.org/us_law/loss/assessing/assessingnewnormal.htm

"How the war on terrorism affects access to information and the
public's right to know" is the subject of a newly updated study
from the Reporters Committee on Freedom of the Press.

See "Homefront Confidential," fourth edition, September 2003:

http://www.rcfp.org/homefrontconfidential/


A NOD TO GALILEO

The NASA Galileo mission to Jupiter that ended September 21 with
a directed burnup in Jupiter's atmosphere has been widely hailed
as one of the most spectacular and scientifically productive in
the history of the space program.  It was also conducted with an
unusual degree of transparency.

The Galileo probe became a source of controversy in the 1980s
because it was powered by radioisotope thermoelectric generators
fueled with plutonium-238.  Environmentalists and others worried
about the potential for radioactive contamination due to a
launch accident or as a result of atmospheric reentry from orbit
or during high velocity Earth flyby.

After some equivocation, NASA and especially the Jet Propulsion
Laboratory (JPL) decided that openness was the best way to
address such concerns.

Whole bookshelves of program documents, design studies,
technical assessments and environmental reviews were publicly
released under the Freedom of Information Act, or simply upon
request.

Galileo project manager John Casani willingly engaged critics
and interested members of the public on safety issues and
anything else.  In at least one case, Mr. Casani somewhat
fearlessly invited a critic to come over to JPL to inspect the
spacecraft in its secure "clean room" and to pose any question,
and raise any objection.

Openness was not a panacea for the government.  Some of the
Galileo documents that NASA and JPL released under the FOIA were
used by opponents in a lawsuit that sought unsuccessfully to
block its 1989 launch.  The controversy also served to nurture
an activist movement, the Global Network against Weapons and
Nuclear Power in Space, that remains resolutely opposed to space
nuclear power in any form.

But with all its ups and downs, the Galileo probe did what it
set out to do, extending human awareness into new domains, and
it did so in a manner worthy of a democratic society.

The Galileo project home page is here:

http://galileo.jpl.nasa.gov/


_______________________________________________

Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the
Federation of American Scientists.

To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to
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   Sep > Sep 22

                      Bush Extends Exemption At Area 51

From: Eustaquio Andrea Patounas <socex@terra.com.br>
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 16:43:22 -0300
Fwd Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 17:49:01 -0400
Subject: Bush Extends Exemption At Area 51


Source: Arizona Republic, AZ

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/0921area51-bush21.html

Protects Air Force's secret operations

Associated Press

Sept. 21, 2003 12:00 AM

CARSON CITY, Nev. - Invoking national security, President Bush
has renewed an exemption allowing the Air Force to keep mum
about top-secret operations at a southern Nevada base.

Bush's memorandum said it was of "paramount interest" to exempt
the Groom Lake base about 90 miles north of Las Vegas from
disclosing classified information.

Also known as Area 51, the mysterious base sits on a dry lake
bed and is heavily patrolled. The area is in a no-fly zone.

The secrecy has fueled speculation about UFOs, aliens and other
strange occurrences around Area 51.

Residents of the nearby town of Rachel say the UFO talk began
years ago when a Nevada Test Site worker claimed he saw alien
ships there.

President Clinton first issued the base's exemption in 1995 in
response to two lawsuits filed by injured workers seeking
information about the military's environmental practices at the
site. It has been renewed yearly.

In renewing the order last week, Bush cited the suits brought by
injured workers and the widows of two workers who alleged in
1994 that their husbands were exposed to hazardous and toxic
materials at Groom Lake.

Attorney Jonathan Turley, who represents the families, said the
presidential directive keeps secret documents and testimony that
he believes would link Area 51 to the men's deaths.

"It is baffling to see the government continue to cover up what
went on at Area 51," said Turley, a George Washington University
law professor. Bush's memo exempts the Air Force from following
federal, state or local solid-waste and hazardous-waste laws if
classified information would be disclosed.






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   Sep > Sep 22

               Re: SDI #258 - A Night At The Fights! - Connors

From: Wendy Connors <FadedDiscs@comcast.net>
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 09:51:54 -0600
Fwd Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 17:44:56 -0400
Subject: Re: SDI #258 - A Night At The Fights! - Connors


>From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg@snowhill.com>
>To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 14:39:52 -0500
>Subject: SDI #258 - A Night At The Fights!

<snip>

>Thank you Errol and Wendy for a very entertaining, inspiring,
>and educational segment!

>Lehmberg@snowhill.com

Alfred,

It was our pleasure and we are certainly glad you enjoyed the
audio retrospective. More will follow as the months pass, so
stayed tuned to 'Strange Days...Indeed,' with EBK... and yours
truly.


Thanks again,

Wendy







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   Sep > Sep 23

             Re: Kamloops, British Columbia 09-18-03 - Balaskas

From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 22:41:09 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
Fwd Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 17:41:42 -0400
Subject: Re: Kamloops, British Columbia 09-18-03 - Balaskas


>From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO <hbccufo@telus.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto" <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 19:21:41 -0700
>Subject: Kamloops, British Columbia 09-18-03

>Kamloops, British Columbia

>Date:  September 18, 2003
>Time:  Approx: 7:00 p.m.

>On Thursday, September 18th/03 (shortly after 7PM I think) I
>witnessed a white spherical object moving in roughly an east to
>west direction over Kamloops.  It was not yet dark.

Checking the 'Heavens-Above' web site for the early evening of
September 18, I found that over half a dozen bright satellites
(magnitude 4 or brighter) would have been noticeable in the
cloudy dusk sky over Kamloops. Only one of these (Radcat, mag.
3.2) would have been first noticed in the SSE, moved across the
SE sky (the direction the witness was looking towards) before
disappearing to the NNW. I am not suggesting that it was Radcat
that the witness saw, just that it was out there in the sky and
moving in the same way as what the witness reported that night.

>I estimate the circumference of the object at about 3/4 of the
>size of a dime held at arms length.

A dime at arms length covers an angle of roughly 1 degree or
about two Moon diameters. Was this object really bigger than the
Moon or simply a much smaller bright white star-like object
which just seemed large and spherical in shape?

>I was sitting on my balcony in (deleted by HBCC UFO) facing east
>and south watching a thick lower cloud cover get fiercely blown
>- roughly from west to east (possibly southwest to northeast?).
> We had very strong winds that afternoon and evening. The sky
>was not fully overcast and there were two levels of cloud cover.
> The upper cloud layer was much less dense, more dispersed, and
>did not move nearly as rapidly as the lower cloud cover.

>As I looked up between, say, +/-35 degrees to the horizon I saw
>a perfectly round very white object come into my view moving
>slowly in a straight line roughly east to west (possibly
>northeast to southwest) above the lower cloud cover (at roughly
>the same level as the upper cloud cover).  In any event it
>appeared to be moving in the direction opposite to the wind.

If the object was a satellite(s), or even a balloon, it would
not travel in the same direction as the wind blown clouds. The
winds at ground level are often of different strengths and move
in very different directions to the winds at much higher
elevations.

>I observed this object between 30 seconds to 60 seconds.
> Towards the end of the sighting the object appeared to smoothly
>turn away from me slightly as it moved into clouds in the upper
>cloud layer where I could no longer see it.  It did not reemerge
>that I could see.

If the object was indeed the Radcat sateltttlite, it would have
been visible for several minutes as it travelled from horizon to
horizon in a cloudless sky.

>I cannot estimate the size of this object.  I am not
>particularly good at distances and my only real frames of
>reference are the two layers of cloud cover.  I don't know the
>elevations.

>I believe it shifted direction slightly because it appeared to
>reduce somewhat in size before it entered the upper clouds - as
>if it had turned away and was receding into the distance.

>I won't hazard a guess at the size of the object but I will
>stand on the fact that it was white, perfectly round, and it
>moved against the direction of the lower cloud cover.

It is very easy to determine the absolute motion of an object in
the presence of moving clouds. Also, objects in the sky close to
the horizon or next to clouds will seem to look much bigger than
they really are.

>Has anyone else been reporting sightings of objects in the sky
>around Kamloops recently?

The skies over populated areas are crowded with things such as
airplanes, balloons, birds, bugs and rapidly moving spots that
look like a cluster of playful UFOs that are very real but are
simply artifacts of the human eyeball! Anyone who has ever
looked up at a cloudless sky while lying on the grass or a
lawnchair will know what I mean. If 10, 100, or 1,000 people
reply to your question above to say yes, they too saw objects in
the sky over Kamloops, what will this prove? If I were to ask
such a similar but very general question here where I live and
got 1,000, 10,000 or even 100,000 affirmative results, would
this make Toronto the new UFO capital of Canada (and give Chris
Rutkowski a bigger headache with his annual 2003 UFO summary)?


Nick Balaskas








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   Sep > Sep 23

                     DNA Analysis of Alleged EB Material

From: Bill Chalker <bill_c@bigpond.com>
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 19:44:42 +1000
Fwd Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 17:53:50 -0400
Subject: DNA Analysis of Alleged EB Material


DNA Analysis of Alleged Extraterrestrial Biological Material - A
Cautionary Tale

The National Institute for Discovery Science has published the
results of an exhaustive and unprecedented DNA study on a
biological sample implicated in a major UFO abduction milieu -
the "alien claw" case from California:

http://www.nidsci.org/news/dnaanalysis.html

Scientists working with the Anomaly Physical Evidence Goup (APEG)

http://www.theozfiles.com/anomaly_investigation_group.html

contributed Mt DNA PCR, DOP-PCR, MDA and Ribosomal DNA analyses.
It was ultimately the novel application of the latter process
that finally produced a breakthrough in this complex work
carried out in this grounbreaking investigation. This anchored
the "alien claw" with a more prosaic origin, namely a mollusc or
snail artifact - a case of when is a "claw" not a claw - answer,
when its a snail or slug.

The byproduct of this exercise is the novel ribosomal DNA
analytical methodology, utilised by the APEG scientists, which
has diverse implications in the world of animal research and
perhaps in the field of cryptozoology.

APEG is grateful to NIDS and A & S Research for the opportunity
to participate and contribute to this fascinating exercise.

While the study confirmed a prosaic origin to the "alien claw"
artifact, the UFO abduction milieu from which it emerged is
still under study in particular by A & S Research and it will be
interesting to see if any other intriguing artifacts emerge to
assist in the interpretation of this complex affair.  It needs
to be remembered that this artifact was only one part of a very
complex affair.  The lessons in this DNA investigation are of
vital importance to future such investigations.


Bill Chalker

http://www.theozfiles.com/anomaly_investigation_group.html








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   Sep > Sep 23

                               Graham Birdsall

From: Chris Evers <hufos1@hufos1.karoo.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 23:46:52 +0100
Fwd Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 17:56:58 -0400
Subject: Graham Birdsall


Hi All

I am currently putting together a memoriam for Graham Birdsall
and would welcome any thoughts and anecdotes about graham from
any one who knew him and had any interactions with Graham at
all.

Although EYE Magazine is currently in a holding phase our
temporary problems should be sorted out soon& then we shall
return with a double issue production of EYE.

I apologise to all who have asked about EYE magazine but will
explain recent events better in an upcoming Editors column&


Best regards

Chris Evers
EYE Magazine







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   Sep > Sep 23

                                Condoleances

From: Thierry Jonnaert <thierry.jonnaert@pandora.be>
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 02:03:01 +0200
Fwd Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 17:58:44 -0400
Subject: Condoleances


Hi List,

I would like to express my sincere condoleances to Mr.
Birdsall's family and friends.

Respected by thousands of men or women were his energy and
enthusiasm for the subject, made manifest in the famous UFO
Magazine.


Thierry Jonnaert
Teacher Fine Arts
UFO-RESEARCH
& P. PHENOMENA
Belgium







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   Sep > Sep 23

                            UFO Crashes In Africa

From: Thierry Jonnaert <thierry.jonnaert@pandora.be>
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 02:23:28 +0200
Fwd Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 18:04:05 -0400
Subject: UFO Crashes In Africa


Hi List,

Many experts are sure we had several UFO crashes in Africa - not
only South-Africa..... Who knows more about all this?

For the moment I will not ask something about the famous
UFO crash in South Africa in 1989.

Great ufologists from different countries are sure there was a
crash. The last question was... which weapon they used to hit
the UFO? Experts in South Africa mentioned a special MASER -
experimental weapon at that moment. Why not!?

In reality this case is still open. And this was not the only
crash in South Africa.

But...I heard of more crashes in different countries in Africa.

Of course... we need _real_ facts. The exchange of information
is important!

I'm happy the FOIA - in the US - is helping us to discover more
and more about the UFO crashes in the US.

Of course... now we learn what the CIA, the Air Force etc., were
hiding for years and years. It's better we know the truth about
all this.


Thierry Jonnaert
Belgium







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   Sep > Sep 23

                    Strange Lights & A Creature In Canada

From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO <hbccufo@telus.net>
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 19:47:16 -0700
Fwd Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 18:07:52 -0400
Subject: Strange Lights & A Creature In Canada


Hi List

Well I just took a telephone call and still have to write up the
report, but before I do so I will be talking to others who
witnessed this event. Plus a drawing was made of the creature
and I will be receiving this as well.

In a small Canadian community 4 people were driving along side
one of the local golf courses when they witnessed a number of
flashing lights which appeared to be hovering over the gold
course. Two of the men got out of the car and went into the area
to see if someone was breaking into a building on the grounds.
The other two fellows went back to get some help just in case it
was needed. As the two fellows approached the building a
creature was seen hunched over as if it was hiding, then pulled
itself up quickly and ran right in front of the fellows and
disappeared. But as all this was happening, over a local lake
just at the edge of the golf course, lights could be seen
sitting, or hovering over the lake.

The experience left one of the fellows in tears due to what he
saw. Also I have been told, in the same community where this
took place, many animals have gone missing. Some found with
puncture marks on their lifeless bodies.

Anyway, this is the short version and I will have the eyewitness
accounts to all of this as soon as I gather the information.

Take care
Brian

HBCC UFO Research








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   Sep > Sep 23

                          BUFOSC Meeting - 12-06-03

From: Eric Morris <bufosc@hotmail.com>
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 18:59:07 +0100
Fwd Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 18:14:32 -0400
Subject: BUFOSC Meeting - 12-06-03


BUFOSC are organising a UFO Conference on Saturday 6th December
03 at the Waterloo Community Centre in Runcorn.From 11am-5pm it
will feature three speakers Eric Morris on new unseen military
UFO Footage and recent footage a daily wanted tp pay thousands
for this year.

Tim Matthews on the evolution of current Ufology A reflective
Account of modern Ufology today Roy Bennett of Staffordshire
'secret' UFO's.

All new stuff the video's are dramatic and stunning you will not
see better anywhere in the world.  sincerely mean that folks as
Hughie Green used to say (He was privy to the Roswell crash by
the way).

All proceeds going to charity this time to a charity og the late
Graham Birdsall's choice.The Conference will be a dedication to
him and Gordon Creighton who died in July.

Tickets 5.00 usual food & drinks buffer, raffle prizes and stalls.

Contact Eric Morris NEW NO 01606 737687 or at 192 Booth Lane
Middlewich Cheshire CW10 0EF

*New address please note*

Please attend and make it a good un on behalf of our late
colleagues

Thank you

Eric Morris
23.9.03








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   Sep > Sep 23

                       UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 8 Number 36

From: John Hayes <webmaster@ufoinfo.com>
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 18:48:09 +0100
Fwd Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 19:12:32 -0400
Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 8 Number 36


Posted on behalf of Joseph Trainor.

<Masinaigan@aol.com>
==========================

      UFO ROUNDUP
Volume 8, Number 36
September 24, 2003
Editor: Joseph Trainor

E-mail: <Masinaigan@aol.com>
Website: http://www.ufoinfo.com/roundup/


NEW YORK RESEARCHER
HAS STRANGE ENCOUNTER
ON THE ISLE OF MALTA

      On Sunday, September 14, 2003, at about 4 a.m., New
York researcher Eugenia Macer-Story, author of Doing
Business in the Adirondacks:  True Tales of the Bizarre
and Supernatural, had a strange experience in her hotel
room in Bughba, a village on St. Paul's Bay on the
Mediterranean island of Malta.
      "I had an unsettling experience in the early hours of
the morning," Eugenia reported, "In the dark I reached for
a door latch linked to an outside balcony window
overlooking Megalithic ruins used by the hotel as a
tourist attraction after hearing distinctive ghostly
noises inside the room.  I felt a sharp pain in the fold
of flesh between thumb and index finger and assumed it was
either a ghostly cut or I had injured myself on the
sliding metal door latch."
      "When I looked at the injury under electric light,"
the author, a self-described clairvoyant, added, "I was
surprised (and frightened-E.M.S.) to see that a series of
small craters like puncture marks or small burns were on
my hand.  I put antibiotic salve on the wounds."
      "My immediate thought is that they were burns from
acid.  Later, the idea of venom occurred to me.  The burns
were what might be called 'second degree' and turned
purplish and ugly before healing in about a week."
      Eugenia added that the prehistoric ruins are known
locally as "the Bughba temple," and they were first
excavated and surveyed by a British archaeologist back in
1928.  Artifacts from the site are now in a museum
elsewhere on the island of Malta.
      In the late 1970s, there were strange "manimal"
reports from the Megalithic ruins at Gozo.  The creature,
which one magazine called "the Caliban of Malta," was
described as slender, sinewy, covered with brown or black
hair and having three-digits on its hands and feet, plus
pointed, swept-back ears.  Witnesses claimed to have seen
the "manimal" hopping and leaping about the Gozo ruins and
clinging to the side of stucco walls.  (Email Interview)


CHUPACABRAS CONTINUE
THEIR RAMPAGE IN CHILE

      "Nocturnal attacks that end with large numbers of
slain sheep in pens adjacent to homes have acquired
unaccustomed frequency, with owners none the wiser until
the following morning."
      "The third of these attacks in recent months occurred
between Thursday night," September 11, 2003, "and Friday
morning," September 12, 2003, "at Santa Lidia de Cartago,
14 kilometers (8 miles) west of the city of Pemuco" in
Chile.
      "Alfonso Mendoza, owner of the dead and dying
animals, lost between 20 sheep and lambs.  The first
attack was on Thursday and claimed the lives of 5 animals;
the second was on Friday morning and took 7 more, plus 8
agonizing animals which must be put down.  Among the
wounded was the family's pet sheep, which had been raised
by hand after its mother's death and treated with
antibiotics."
      "Despite the fact that the farmer believes dogs were
likely involved, his experience and the difference in the
attacks on each day has left him wondering if a 'lion'
(puma in Chile; cougar or mountain lion in the USA--J.T.)
could have been responsible, since the animal sometimes
descends from the snowy cordilleran peaks (of the Andes--
J.T.) or else another type of animal."
      "He was hoping to know for sure this weekend, which
he planned to spend standing guard with a shotgun, since
he has already lost a third of his flock, which is
improved Suffolk stock."
      "'If dogs are involved, they must be eliminated,
since they still attack after being sated,' he said.  He
notes that an event of this type has not been wtnessed
here in three years, and that the 'stunt' represents a
loss of at least 200,000 Chilean pesos to him."
      "A situation that eludes his grip (understanding--
J.T.) is that the first night the attacking animals ate
part of the sheep; but on the second assault, they only
attacked for the blood, which in his opinion is not
customary in dog attacks."
      "Another case occurred on the road to Cato, where it
was ascertained that a dog attack did indeed take place,
since paw prints of a large canine were stamped on the
wood that served as the roof of the sheep pen."
      In northern Chile, Chupacabra attacks occurred near
the city of Calama.
     "According to statements made by Jaime Ferrer, a
paranormal phenomena researcher, the Chupacabras have not
stopped their attacks on Calama."
      "The ufologist stated that the latest incident
occurred on the Avenida O'Higgins, only meters (yards)
from his home."
      "'One of my neighbors came to my place of work to say
that his cat had been attacked by something very weird.
In fact it had an enigmatic wound on its neck, where a
total lack of fur is evidence that it could not have been
caused by a dog or some other animal, nor through a fight
with a member of its own species,' said Ferrer."
      "He added that the animal (cat) was very nervous,
allegedly from its experience with the Chupacabra.  'I
believe that its life was spared for being a male, since
the creature prefers females, and I believe it's because
they are the ones responsible for protecting life and
giving birth.'"
      "'It must be understood that this being remains in
Calama.  Many have seen it.  It's generally not the same
one that was filmed in the south, since my research has
shown that there are countless species of said
creatures.'"  (See the Chilean newspapers La Discusion de
Chillan for September 14, 2003, "Third attack on sheep
claims twenty more," and La Estrella del Loa for September
13, 2003, "Creature attacks continue in Calama."  Muchas
gracias a Scott Corrales, Liliana Nunez, Gloria Coluchi y
Jaime Ferrer para estos articulos de diario.)


UFOs AND COW MUTILATION
REPORTED IN ARGENTINA

      Luminous UFOs were sighted over Buenos Aires, the
capital of Argentina, last week, and a cattle mutilation
was reported in Santa Fe province.
      On Tuesday, September 9, 2003, at 5:50 a.m.,
"mysterious pulses of light were seen for several minutes
over the Pompeya district of Buenos Aires.  The lights
then moved slowly to the north," toward Tigre and the Rio
Parana.  "A witness photographed them with his SONY 360
camera."
      On Wednesday, September 10, 2003, "at 6 a.m., a UFO
floated for more than five minutes over the Flores and
Aledanos districts of Buenos Aires, moving very slowly at
an altitude of approximately 1,500 meters (5,000 feet),
occasionally pulsating with an intense luminosity."
      Many hours later, at 7:40 p.m. that Wednesday, "an
intense, very luminous sphere" flew over El Centro and the
Avenida Nueve de Julio in Buenos Aires.  "This object had
a luminosity brighter than that of a planet.  The
incredible scene continued as the object moved its
position over the Avenida La Plata and the Avenida Boedo,
where hundreds of people witnessed the phenomenon."
      In Susana, a town of Santa Fe province 400 kilometers
(250 miles) northwest of Buenos Aires, "a cow sustained a
strange mutilation and was found under most mysterious
circumstances.  The animal was missing both of its ears,
and its veins had been completely drained of blood."  (See
the Argentinian newspaper La Opinion for September 19,
2003.  Muchas gracias a Ricardo E. D'Angelo y Norberto
Mollo para estos casos.)

HOVERING RED UFO SEEN
IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA


      "As he looks up at a bright moon, spindly shadows
fall across John Gonzalez's face through the branches of a
small tree on his front lawn."
      "It's a Saturday night, and just like every night
since they saw a strange red light in the sky" on
Saturday, August 30, 2003, "Gonzalez and a handful of
other residents on 20th Street in Montebello," California
(population 62,150) "are out looking for UFOs."
      "Twice in late August, most recently on August 30,
residents say they saw the strange, flashing red light
high in the skies above Montebello," a suburb of Los
Angeles, "triggering the near-nightly vigil on Gonzalez's
block."
      "As he surveys the skies, his friend cleans the lens
of a telescope on a tripod.  Next door, another neighbor
and his son are waiting on the front lawn, a video camera
perched upon a tripod at the ready."
      "While residents swear they saw something very
unusual, nobody--not police nor local astronomical
agencies--has given them a satisfying explanation as to
what it was."
      "'It was something military, or something advanced,'
Gonzalez believes. He recalls how in the past witnesses
confused the (F-117) Stealth bomber with a UFO.  'Maybe it
will be like the Stealth bomber.  You know, all these
people seeing the strange flying triangle in the desert
and then, ten years later, we find out what it really
was.'"
      "The residents' accounts of the weird light are
nearly all alike.  They say the light moved slowly up from
the horizon, then began to turn on a path parallel to the
horizon.  The light then emitted a bright flash and began
moving faster.  It disappeared and reappeared a few times,
then faded away."
      "Several residents videotaped the object."
      "Officials at the Federal Aviation Administration,
the U.S. Air Force and the Jet Propulsion Laboratory in La
Canada/Flintridge all said they have no record of anything
in the skies on August 24 or August 30 (2003)."
      "Fear of ridicule caused some witnesses to decline to
give their names to a reporter.  One man, who said he
scans the skies nightly with binoculars, said he's
convinced people might think he's crazy."
      "'I have a high-profile job.  There's no way I can
let you use my name.'"
      "Whatever the light was, it hasn't returned since
August 30.  But that hasn't stopped Montebello's nightly
UFO watchers from gazing skywards."
      "'As long as there are no laser beams coming down,
we're cool with it,' said Gonzalez."  (See the San Gabriel
Valley Tribune for September 12, 2003, "Red flashing UFO
over L.A. baffles residents."  Many thanks to Jim Hickman
for this newspaper article.)


DiDOMENICA INVESTIGATES
RUMORED MOON BASE

      Ufologist Claude DiDomenica has a new E-book CD-ROM
out, which explores the strange history of Project
Horizon, an actual plan to build a NATO base on the moon.
      He reports, "In 1959, a technical task force that
included the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers authorized the
Project HORIZON study.  The primary objective of the study
was to build the first permanently manned moon base by
1966."
      DiDomenica explained, "I first learned about Project
HORIZON from the controversial 1997 book, The Day After
Roswell, by U.S. Army Colonel Philip E. Corso.  Although
the general theme of the book was about the
extraterrestrial presence, there was an interesting
chapter called 'Project Moon Base.'"
      "In July of 1997, I contacted the historian of the
Corps of Engineers to verify that the Project HORIZON
study existed.  He replied and told me, not only did the
study exist, but he would be happy to send me a copy."
      After receiving the report, DiDomenica said, "I was
pleasantly surprised.  Not only did I receive the document
but three appendices of Volume I that were not included in
The Day After Roswell, and the complete Volume II of the
study," which runs over 300 pages.
      "I took great care in scanning Volumes I and II and
created a user-friendly communication system," DiDomenica
stated, "I also wrote an overview, explaining my theory
that, at this time, we do indeed have a moon base that is
so secret, perhaps not even the (USA's) president is aware
of its existence."
      "As far as I know," he added, "approximately three-
quarters of the 400 pages of previously-classified U.S.
Army documents have never been released to the public."
      DiDomenica said he felt that "this provocative CD-ROM
creates more questions than it answers."
      DiDomenica's E-book is available for purchase at this
Web site: http://ufonetwork.com/projecthorizon/


FAMILY SPOTS A UFO IN
SOUTHERN OHIO

      On Saturday, September 13, 2003, "a spectacularly
large object" was seen to the northeast of Silcott Road in
Seaman, Ohio (population 1,039), a small town on Routes 32
and 136 approximately 37 miles (60 kilometers) east of
Cincinnati.
      "From the side of the house," eyewitness Mandy, 21,
her mother, her sister and a friend "observed a
triangular-shaped formation of lights on one large object.
The lights reportedly flashed in sequence.  The triangular
arrangement of lights was composed of four or five lights,
with the peak of the triangle facing downward, at the
bottom."
      Mandy described "the lights flashing as if on a train
or row of lights.  "The lights were on the outer edge,'
she said, 'assuming the lights that were flashing in
sequence were along a triangular outer edge.'"
      "She said the colors would change but would do so in
a unanimous fashion, all red or all yellow, etc. and would
flash along the outer edge of the object in a slow
sequence at first.  Then the flashing sequence escalated
in speed after several minutes into the sighting."
      Mandy "first observed the object when taking her dog
outside around midnight.  The object caught her attention
due to its brightness in the sky.  She said the UFO was
not quite as big as the full moon from her vantage point.
She said that there was a very large object and it hovered
in place for about one hour at an elevation she estimated
to be 45 degrees above the horizon."
      "She said that her mother, who is skeptical about
UFOs, decided to have her report the object because it
seemed so unusual.  The witnesses said the large
triangular object was estimated to have been 12 miles (19
kilometers)
northeast of their location" and over Belfast, Ohio.
      Kenny Young of Cincinnati UFO Research noted that
Belfast "is only 5 miles (8 kilometers) northwest of
Serpent Mound State Memorial in Locust Grove, Ohio."
(Editor's Note: The Serpent Mound is one of the largest
pre-Columbian ruins in the USA, dating back thousands of
years.)
      Elsewhere in Ohio, on Friday, September 19, 2003, at
2:10 p.m., John G. and his father "saw two black
helicopters fly over our house" in Springfield, Ohio
(population 65,368), located on Route 68 approximately 84
miles (134 kilometers) northeast of Cincinnati.  "The
black choppers approached from the east," John reported,
"Flying low at 40 to 60 miles per hour (64 to 100
kilometers per hour--J.T.)."  (Many thanks to Kenny Young
for the UFO report.  The Springfield sighting was an Email
Form Report.)


NIGHT SAUCER SPOTTED IN
SYKESVILLE, MARYLAND

      On Tuesday, September 16, 2003, at 8:30 p.m., Stephen
Brady was outdoors in his hometown of Sykesville, Maryland
(population 4,197) when he spotted a flying saucer.
      Stephen reported, "I was walking around outside at
8:30 p.m. and saw what appeared to be a UFO hovering in
the sky.  It looked like it was in the shape of a saucer."
      "I ran back to the house and got a pair of binoculars
and upon further inspection saw that it definitely had
more than one light.  I tried focusing and counting the
lights on the object.  I counted about 8 to 10 yellow
lights around the perimeter of the UFO and one large dim
one in the very center underneath the object.  It was
dark, but the moon gave me enough light to tell that it
was in the shape of a disk or a saucer."
      "It seemed to be tilted at about a 45-degree angle to
the left.  After watching it for a while, I saw it shift
position.  It had turned in the opposite direction and was
now facing the right.  So I told everybody in the house,
and we all drew closer to get a better look at it."
      "Then I saw it shift again.  This time it went
straight up and down, like some sightings were reported to
be.  Again it moved.  It turned to the right as before.
The object remained stationary in the sky and appeared to
be hovering.  From our neighborhood, it appeared to have a
bearing of 060 degrees east-southeast and have an
elevation angle of about 30 degrees" above the horizon.
      Sykesville, Md. is on Route 32 about 15 miles (25
kilometers) west of Baltimore.  (Email Form Report)


UFO SIGHTED IN WISCONSIN

      On Wednesday, September 3, 2003, at 5 a.m., the male
witness was outdoors in Chippewa Falls, Wisconsin
(population 12,925) and "it was a very clear sky on that
particular morning.  I had just sent my daughter off to
college.  At 5 a.m., I stood alone in the driveway,
observing the stars, when I noticed a commercial jet on
its way to the St. Paul/Minneapolis airport" in
neighboring Minnesota.  "It was using the flight corridor
from east to west."
      Suddenly, "an object approached from the west
(Minnesota--J.T.)  It was a very bright white light moving
faster than the jet.  It flew directly over my head with
no sound at all.  It appeared to be at a lower (flight)
level than the jet.  It continued to move to the
northeast.  This all took place in less than a minute."
      Chippewa Falls, Wis. is on Highway 63 about 15 miles
(25 kilometers) northeast of Eau Claire, Wis.  (Many
thanks to John and Jenny Hoppe of UFO Wisconsin for this
report.)


UFOs SEEN IN DERBYSHIRE

      "UFO experts have confirmed that that a mystery
object has been seen hovering over Bolsover," Derbyshire,
UK "and one resident has video footage to help officials
investigate the spooky goings-on."
      "Eagle-eyed local Jim Webley, 56 and his wife,
Christine, first spotted the 'peculiar' object in the
Derbyshire skies over the Bank Holiday weekend and say the
strange blob-like sphere returned twice last week."
      Jim "grabbed his video camera when he saw light
glowing through the window net of their Portland Avenue
home."
      "'We looked out and saw a white sphere in the sky.
We watched closely as it seemed to be glowing red and
green,' he said, 'It looked very strange.  I know it
couldn't be an aeroplane--it was the wrong shape.'"
      "Co-spotted Christine, 48, says they are convinced
the object was not an aircraft or a star, adding, 'We are
both just really anxious to find out what it is.'"
      "East Midlands UFO Research Association has already
viewed the video and a spokesman" said, "'We can't tell if
it is a visitor from another planet.  It certainly isn't
an aircraft or star--it is at the moment an Unidentified
Flying Object.'"
      "The couple say the blob-like object returned to the
Bolsover skies again on Thursday," September 4, 2003, "and
on Sunday night," September 7, 2003.
      "Says Jim, 'It was definitely the same object.  It
was darting around the sky with its green and red flashing
lights and travelling in a circular shape (path--J.T.).
We want to know why it keeps coming back.'"
      "Now UFO spotter Jim is keeping a log as well as two
hours of video footage of the strange object."
      "The couple say the UFO appears in the Bolsover sky
in the direction of Ashover from around 10 p.m. to
midnight and have urged other locals to keep their eyes
peeled in a bid to solve the mystery."  (See the newspaper
Mansfield Today for September 12, 2003, "Bolsover man
snags UFO on video camera."  Many thanks to Jim Hickman
for forwarding this newspaper story.)


SWASTIKA CROP CIRCLE
APPEARS IN GERMANY

      "A giant swastika-shaped crop circle has been
discovered in a cornfield near Berlin."
      "German police say they are baffled by the illegal
symbol and have no idea how it got there."
      "A police helicopter pilot discovered the Nazi
symbol, near the Berlin-Schoenefeld Airport, as he was
flying back to base."
      "Authorities believe it could have been there for
some time but had not been noticed as it lay just outside
the fly zone and was not visible to either passengers or
airliner pilots."
      "Officers are now searching for clues as to who is
behind the swastika, which measures more than 65 feet (20
meters) in diameter."
      Discovery of the "crop swastika" came at the same
time as the arrest of three Germans in connection with an
alleged neo-Nazi terrorist plot.
      "Authorities arrested three more suspected neo-Nazis
believed to be plotting to bomb a groundbreaking ceremony
for a Munich synagogue.  At least 10 people across Germany
have now been arrested in the past week on suspicion of
involvement in a terrorist plot."
      "The ceremony is planned for November 9 (2003), the
anniversary of the Nazis' 1938 Kristallnacht pogrom in
which thousands of Jewish businesses and synagogues were
vandalized.  German president Johannes Rau and the
country's main Jewish leader, Paul Spiegel, are expected
to attend the ceremony."
      Curiously, the new synagogue is set to open on the
65th anniversary of Kristallnacht.  The recently-
discovered "crop swastika" is 65 feet in diameter.
  (See Ananova for September 19, 2003, "German police
baffled by swastika crop circle.," and the Minneapolis,
Minn. Star-Tribune for September 14, 2003, "Germany: Neo-
Nazis nabbed in plot," page A18.)


IN MEMORIAM: UFO EDITOR
GRAHAM W. BIRDSALL

      World-reknowned ufologist and magazine editor Graham
W. Birdsall passed away at 5:05 a.m. on Friday, September
19, 2003 following a brief illness.
      A few days earlier, Graham had been rushed to a
hospital in Leeds, UK for an emergency operation to stem a
brain hemorrhage.  He underwent a seven-hour operation but
did not regain consciousness.
      Born on April 7, 1954, Graham was one of the best-
known ufologists in the world and the long-time editor of
UK's UFO Magazine.  He is survived by his wife, Christine,
his daughters, his mother, brothers and sisters.
      Funeral services will be held on Tuesday, September
30, 2003, at St. Mary's Parish Church, Whitkirk, Leeds,
UK.


 From the UFO Files...

1924: CHILLIN' WITH THE
            ILLUMINATI

      (Our Story So Far:  Nesta Bevan was the youngest
daughter of a Hertfordshire banker who had her first brush
with the paranormal at Brownshill Court, Miss Winscombe's
boarding school for girls in Stroud, Gloucestershire, UK.
Her second came in 1902 when a London fortune-teller
described her future husband.  Two years later, Nesta met
and married Arthur Webster, a middle-aged district police
official, on a trip to India, which led to the next step
in her strange career.)
      "The Websters settled in Surrey where for ten years
they enjoyed a peaceful country life, gardening, farming
and raising a family.  During that time Mrs. Webster had a
strange experience which determined her future career.
She happened to read an essay about the Comtesse de Sabran
and her lover, the Chevalier de Boufflers.  As she read,
the feeling came over her that she had once known these
people and taken part in the events described in their
correspondence.  Now she realized why certain parts of
Paris had always seemed familiar; it was because she
herself, in a past life, had witnessed the procession of
tumbrils bearing (French) aristocrats to the guillotine."
      "Nesta Webster had once lived as the Comtesse de
Sabran.  That seemed the most likely explanation for her
extraordinary sense of identity with the life and times of
the countess.  Others occurred to her, such as the
possibility of an ancestral memory or telepathic thought-
messages from someone living or dead, but she was more
inclined to the theory of reincarnation.  An acquaintance
of hers was Miss Jourdain, one of the two ladies who had
caused a sensation with their book, An Adventure,
descrbing how, on a visit to Versailles, they had been
transported back to the Eighteenth Century..."
(Editor's Comment: Paranormal Event No. 3!  The time-
travelling Miss Jourdain puts Nesta Webster right in the
middle of the New Age movement.)
      Nesta tried her hand at a book of her own, a novel
entitled The Chevalier de Boufflers, which was well
received, particularly in France.  "She was delighted to
hear that a Frenchman, whose grandfather had been
guillotined, commented, 'No one could have written that
book who had not lived at the Court of Marie Antoinette."
      While researching the novel, Nesta first came across
information about the strange sect of the Illuminati,
founded on May 1, 1776 at Ingolstadt in southern Germany
by a renegade Jesuit named Adam Weishaupt.  (For more on
Weishaupt, see UFO Roundup, volume 5, number 6 for
February 10, 2000, "1748: Unforgettable Adam Weishaupt,"
page 6.)
(Editor's Note: Curiously, Ingolstadt is the city where
Mary Wollstonecraft Shelley's fictional "Dr. Frankenstein"
created his famous monster.  Today it's the home of
automobile manufacturer Bayerische Motorenwerk, a.k.a.
BMW.)
      However, the onset of World War I put a temporary end
to Nesta's literary career.  "The Websters were living
near Chanctonbury Ring in Sussex, a high lonely spot
ideally situated for spies signalling to the enemy.  It
was rumoured locally that something of the sort was
happening, and the authorities called upon the police
experience of Mr. Webster, asking him to investigate."
      In no time at all, counterspy Nesta was flooding
Whitehall with voluminous reports about "mystery flashes
seen at night (my emphasis--J.T.), carrier pigeons
intercepted and other happenings of a highly suspect
nature" in Sussex.
      "In her autobiography Nesta described how together"
she and her husband "'traced out on an ordnance map the
points at which these phenomena occurred and a curious
line of communication could be traced out between
Aldershot (British Army headquarters--J.T.) and the sea.'
This was taken seriously enough for two (intelligence)
officers to to be dispatched from London to make further
inquiries."
(Editor's Comment:  Apparently the UFOs had Aldershot
under surveillance from 1914 until 1918.)
      During the latter part of the war, Nesta resumed her
literary efforts, churning out The French Revolution,
which re-introduced Adam Weishaupt to the English-speaking
world.  She followed up with two more books on the
Illuminati, Secret Societies and Subversive Movements and
Boche and Bolshevik.
      "Readers were thrilled by the mystical nature of her
crusade and its air of high moral righteousness, which
distracted attention from the weak points and
improbabilities in the details of her thesis.  In the
period of turmoil and revolution following" World War I,
"conspiracy theory was rife, and the notion of a central
anarchistic command, secretly directing anti-social
operations throughout the world, flourished in high
places...Her writings acquired an influential following.
In 1920, she began a series of lectures to officers of the
(Royal) Artillery, the Brigade of Guards, and the
(British) Secret Service."
      Contending with Nesta for the top spot on the
bestseller list was Victor E. Marsden's English
translation of The Protocols of the Learned Elders of
Zion.  And when Marsden died suddenly in 1921, conspiracy
mania reached its peak.  But then the Times exposed The
Protocols as a fraud, a rewrite of an 1864 satire by
French author Maurice Joly, and the furor died down.
(Editor's Note:  By the way, we're in the centennial of
The Protocols' first public appearance.  They ran in
serialized form in Znamya (Russian for The Banner) from
August 23, 1903 to September 7, 1903.  The newspaper was
published in what is now the Ukraine by anti-Semitic
activist Pyotir Krushevan.)
      By now convinced that the Illuminati was still active
and a danger to the world, Nesta struck back at her
critics with her 1924 book, World Revolution: The Plot
Against Civilization.  "Her cast of conspirators did
include many of Jewish origin, such as international
financiers, and 'apostate Jews who have thrown themselves
into the revolutionary movement,' but she insisted that
these types represented as great a threat to Jewish
culture as to that of all other peoples.  Thus she was no
blind anti-Semite, as her detractors, as well as many of
her followers have represented her."
      In the latter 1920s, Nesta moved further to the
political right.  She became a member of Sir Oswald
Mosley's Union of British Fascists and became friendly
with both Mosley and William Joyce, who became notorious
as "Lord Haw-Haw" in World War II.  Nesta "wrote numerous
articles for the right-wing journal, The Patriot,
published by her patron, the Duke of Northumberland."
      "She admired Mussolini more than Hitler, but her
hatred of Communism led her to support the National
Socialist regime, and in 1938 she even denied the Jews in
Germany were being unfairly persecuted, dismissing all
evidence to the contrary as a product of conspiratorial
propaganda."
      "In Hitler she discerned a staunch opponent of
Bolshevism and Pan-Germanism alike.  But in this, as in
many other of her opinions, she was proved wrong, her
faith being shattered in 1939 when Hitler signed his pact
with Stalin."
      "As she grew older Mrs. Webster became more and more
pessimistic about the chances of saving humanity from the
universal (one-world) government of the Illuminati.
Having trained herself to detect conspiracies in history,
she began to find them all around her in her daily life.
She took to answering her doorbell with pistol in hand."
      "Yet to the year of her death, in 1960, she kept up
fierce literary battles with her critics and enemies, real
and imagined.  The last book she wrote was the second part
of her autobiography, Crowded Hours, covering the period
of her most notable activities.  No publisher could be
found for it during her lifetime, but in 1972 it was
accepted by the right-wing Britons Publishing Company in
Devon.  But Crowded Hours has never been published, and
never will be."
      "As if in direct confirmation of its author's belief
in conspiracy, the manuscript, the only copy, was
mysteriously abstracted from the publisher's office by an
American visitor whose identity has never been disclosed.
He could have been an agent of the lluminati, belatedly
suppressing the last of Mrs. Webster's revelations; or
perhaps the reason for the theft was to protect the
reputations of former Nazi sympathizers named in her
reminiscences."
      As a Fortean researcher, what I find most intriguing
about Nesta Webster is her involvement, like Weishaupt,
with various aspects of the paranormal or, what we might
call today, New Age beliefs.  For Adam Weishaupt, it was
the Knights Templar, the Cathars, the Kabbalah, necromancy
and pyramidology.  For Nesta Webster, it was clairvoyance,
reincarnation, time travel, the Illuminati and UFOs.
Both Weishaupt and the female "anti-Weishaupt" had feet
firmly planted in the New Age.
      That in itself would make for an interesting field of
study for sociologists of the future.  (See the books
Eccentric Lives, Peculiar Notions by John Michell, Black
Dog and Leventhal Publishers, New York, N.Y., 1999, pages
68 through 71; and Behind World Revolution: The Strange
Career of Nesta H. Webster by Richard Gilman, Insight
Books, Ann Arbor, Mich., 1982, pages 75 through 185.  See
also UFO Roundup, volume 8, number 35 for September 17,
2003, "1894: Mystery at the girls' school," page 8.)

      That's it for this week.  Join us in seven days for
more UFO, Fortean and paranormal news from around the
planet Earth, brought to you by "the paper that goes home-
-UFO Roundup."  See you next time.

UFO ROUNDUP: Copyright 2003 by Masinaigan Productions, all
rights reserved.  Readers may post news items from UFO
Roundup on their Web sites or in news groups provided that
they credit the newsletter and its editor by name and list
the date of issue in which the item first appeared.


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   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Sep > Sep 23

                          Secrecy News -- 09/23/03

From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood@fas.org>
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 15:58:08 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 19:14:38 -0400
Subject: Secrecy News -- 09/23/03


SECRECY NEWS
from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy
Volume 2003, Issue No. 79
September 23, 2003


**      KAY REPORT ON IRAQI WMD MAY NOT BE RELEASED
**      TERRORISM COMMISSION REPORTS ON ITS STATUS
**      GAO ON MISSILE DEFENSE
**      TREATMENT OF ITALIAN AMERICANS IN WWII QUESTIONED


KAY REPORT ON IRAQI WMD MAY NOT BE RELEASED

In an astonishing reversal, the Bush Administration signaled
that it will not release the final report of the Iraq Survey
Group led by David Kay, which was intended to provide a
comprehensive assessment of the state of Iraqi weapons of mass
destruction programs.

"I would not count on reports," said National Security Advisor
Condoleezza Rice on September 22.

"David Kay is not going to be done with this for quite some
time... I suppose there may be interim  reports. I don't know
when those will be, and I don't know what the public nature of
them will be," she said.

Her remarks came near the end of a press briefing and seem to
have gone unnoted.

http://www.fas.org/irp/news/2003/09/wh092203.html

A story in the London Sunday Times two weeks ago said that the
Kay report had been "shelved" because the Iraq Survey Group had
found no evidence of Iraqi WMD and that a report might never be
published.

"Britain and America have decided to delay indefinitely the
publication of a full report on Iraq's weapons of mass
destruction after inspectors found no evidence that any such
weapons exist."  ("Iraq Weapons Report Shelved" by David
Leppard, Sunday Times, September 14).

But in response to a reporter's question, the White House
dismissed the Times account.

"I haven't heard anything like that. David Kay continues to do
his work. He's been compiling massive amounts of documents about
Iraq's history of weapons of mass destruction and weapons of
mass destruction program," said White House spokesman Scott
McClellan on September 16.

http://www.fas.org/irp/news/2003/09/wh091603.html

Secretary of State Colin Powell also recently reinforced
widespread expectations of an authoritative, near-term public
assessment of the Iraqi WMD program.

"Dr. Kay will be putting out a report in the very near future,
and I look forward to seeing it, as everyone else does," he said
on September 14:

http://www.fas.org/irp/news/2003/09/dos091403.html

But now "everyone else" can forget about it, judging from Dr.
Rice's comments this week, because Dr. Kay will not be "putting
out" his report after all.

"The American people should be prepared for surprises," advised
David Kay at a July 31 news briefing.  Indeed.


TERRORISM COMMISSION REPORTS ON ITS STATUS

The National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United
States -- the independent commission assigned to investigate the
September 11 terrorist attacks -- presented a status report on
its activities as its May 2004 statutory deadline approaches.

The Commission said that agency cooperation with the
investigation had improved markedly in the last several months.

"Since our July report, Executive Branch agencies have
significantly improved their performance in responding to our
document requests."

Somewhat surprisingly, the Commission said it would soon hold
hearings on whether there should be a new Director of National
Intelligence, and other aspects of intelligence community
reorganization which are normally the stuff of congressional
oversight.  But the largely inert Senate Select Committee on
Intelligence has declined to address these topics even though
they are the subject of pending legislation.

A copy of the National Commission's Second Interim Report, dated
September 23, is posted here:

http://www.fas.org/irp/news/2003/09/nct092303.pdf


GAO ON MISSILE DEFENSE

The Pentagon is moving to deploy missile defense technologies
before they have matured and before their performance and
reliability has been demonstrated, the General Accounting Office
warned in a report released today.

"Because the President directed DOD to begin fielding a
ballistic missile defense system in 2004, [the Missile Defense
Agency] began ... system integration with technologies whose
maturity has not been demonstrated.  As a result, there is a
greater likelihood that critical technologies will not work as
intended in planned flight tests," the GAO said.

See "Missile Defense:  Additional Knowledge Needed in Developing
System for Intercepting Long-Range Missiles," U.S. General
Accounting Office, August 2003 (1.9 MB PDF file):

  http://www.fas.org/spp/military/program/track/gao-03-600.pdf


TREATMENT OF ITALIAN AMERICANS IN WWII QUESTIONED

"The full extent of the United States government's wartime
restrictions on Italian-Americans is not known because the
Federal Bureau of Investigation refuses to declassify World War
II documents describing the nature of these events," according
to a resolution pending before the Senate Judiciary Committee.

The resolution calls upon "the Federal Bureau of Investigation
[to] take the necessary steps to allow public access to the
documents regarding the mistreatment of Italian-Americans during
World War II."

See:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/congress/2003/pom293.html


_______________________________________________

Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the
Federation of American Scientists.

To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to
secrecy_news-request@lists.fas.org
with "subscribe" in the body of the message.


OR email your request to saftergood@fas.org

Secrecy News is archived at:
http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html

_______________________
Steven Aftergood
Project on Government Secrecy
Federation of American Scientists
web:    www.fas.org/sgp/index.html
email:  saftergood@fas.org
voice:  (202) 454-4691






   UFO UpDates
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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Sep > Sep 23

                               Graham Birdsall

From: Chris Rolfe UFOMEK/UFO-TREK <ufomek@whsmithnet.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 21:53:26 +0100
Fwd Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 19:17:25 -0400
Subject: Graham Birdsall


Dear List Members,

And all who knew Graham, firstly may I say how deeply shocked
and devastated my family are at hearing of Grahams' passing. We
cannot believe it. Are lives feel so empty without him there,
for he gave us knowledge, support, and hope for the subject. And
best of all the gift of friendship, which was valued by us very
deeply.

I have spoken to Russel Callaghan, and he has assured me that
Christine (Grahams' wife) and his two daughters Melanie and
Louise want the magazine to continue as a legacy to Graham.

It was his passion, and his joy, and it would be so sad to see
it all go to waste, after all his hard work and effort. I know
that on many occassions he worked late sometimes into the night
to bring readers the latest issue of the magazine, therefore it
must continue, and I call upon you all to give your support in
helping it to continue for many years to come.

Graham, was allways there for me,and I allways remeber the
support he gave me when my wife (Kerry), became very ill after
having our first daughter. She was admitted to Intensive Care in
hospital, and I thought I was going to loose her.

Graham, gave me such great support, for that I am so gratefull.

Last night I spoke to Grahams wife, Christine, and she thanks
everyone for all their messages of support. She told me, that
she did not realise just how popular a man Graham was,
especially with so many people worldwide. So on behalf of
Grahams family, and very close friends I would like to thank you
all for your messages of support and comfort especially to
Christine and his two daughters.

We will all miss him, for he was a very kind generous, and warm
friendly person, and I was glad to ahve known him over the past
10 years or so. He was also a very devoted husband, father, and
grandfather, who often told me many things about his family
life, and sometimes I felt he was more than just a friend. It
wasn't all ufology with Graham and myself, it was also a
personal freindship.

Godd bless Graham, I will miss you greatly old friend.


Chris Rolfe








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   Sep > Sep 23

                    AUFORN's Graham Birdsall Tribute Page

From: Diane Harrison - AUFORN <auforn@hypermax.net.au>
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 08:40:50 +1000
Fwd Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 19:20:33 -0400
Subject: AUFORN's Graham Birdsall Tribute Page


Hi Everyone,

The Australian UFO Research Network has set up a tribute page
for Graham on our website if you're an Australian and would like
to add your condolences please forward your comments to.


Diane at
auforn@hypermax.net.au

Link

http://www.hypermax.net.au/~auforn/GrahamBirdsall.html

--


Regards,

Diane Harrison
National Director of The Australian UFO Research Network
Australian Skywatch Director

~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>
THE AUSTRALIAN UFO RESEARCH NETWORK
(A Non-Profit Organization)

E-Mail: auforn@hypermax.net.au
E-mail: ufologist@hypermax.net.au
http://www.hypermax.net.au/~auforn

ADMINISTRATION:

PO Box 738
Beaudessert 4285
QLD  Australia
Tel 07 55 44 6888
~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>
Australian UFO Research Network Hotline Number
          1800 77 22 88 Freecall
~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>

All NEW UFO Bookshop at

http://www.contactpublishing.com







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               Re: Kamloops, British Columbia 09-18-03 - Vike

From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO <hbccufo@telus.net>
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 16:00:22 -0700
Fwd Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 19:25:33 -0400
Subject: Re: Kamloops, British Columbia 09-18-03 - Vike


>From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 22:41:09 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
>Subject: Re: Kamloops, British Columbia 09-18-03

>>From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO <hbccufo@telus.net>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto" <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>>Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 19:21:41 -0700
>>Subject: Kamloops, British Columbia 09-18-03

>>Kamloops, British Columbia

>>Date:  September 18, 2003
>>Time:  Approx: 7:00 p.m.

>>On Thursday, September 18th/03 (shortly after 7PM I think) I
>>witnessed a white spherical object moving in roughly an east to
>>west direction over Kamloops.  It was not yet dark.

>Checking the 'Heavens-Above' web site for the early evening of
>September 18, I found that over half a dozen bright satellites
>(magnitude 4 or brighter) would have been noticeable in the
>cloudy dusk sky over Kamloops. Only one of these (Radcat, mag.
>3.2) would have been first noticed in the SSE, moved across the
>SE sky (the direction the witness was looking towards) before
>disappearing to the NNW. I am not suggesting that it was Radcat
>that the witness saw, just that it was out there in the sky and
>moving in the same way as what the witness reported that night.

<snip>

Hi,

This was no satellite Nick, unless they fly at extremely low
levels. Better check again.


Brian







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               Kamloops, British Columbia 09-18-03 - Balaskas

From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO <hbccufo@telus.net>
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 16:11:40 -0700
Fwd Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 08:29:17 -0400
Subject: Kamloops, British Columbia 09-18-03 - Balaskas


>From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 22:41:09 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
>Subject: Re: Kamloops, British Columbia 09-18-03

>>From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO <hbccufo@telus.net>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto" <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>>Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 19:21:41 -0700
>>Subject: Kamloops, British Columbia 09-18-03
>
>>Kamloops, British Columbia
>
>>Date:  September 18, 2003
>>Time:  Approx: 7:00 p.m.
>
>>On Thursday, September 18th/03 (shortly after 7PM I think) I
>>witnessed a white spherical object moving in roughly an east to
>>west direction over Kamloops.  It was not yet dark.
>
>Checking the 'Heavens-Above' web site for the early evening of
>September 18, I found that over half a dozen bright satellites
>(magnitude 4 or brighter) would have been noticeable in the
>cloudy dusk sky over Kamloops. Only one of these (Radcat, mag.
>3.2) would have been first noticed in the SSE, moved across the
>SE sky (the direction the witness was looking towards) before
>disappearing to the NNW. I am not suggesting that it was Radcat
>that the witness saw, just that it was out there in the sky and
>moving in the same way as what the witness reported that night.
>
>>I estimate the circumference of the object at about 3/4 of the
>>size of a dime held at arms length.
>
>A dime at arms length covers an angle of roughly 1 degree or
>about two Moon diameters. Was this object really bigger than the
>Moon or simply a much smaller bright white star-like object
>which just seemed large and spherical in shape?
>
>>I was sitting on my balcony in (deleted by HBCC UFO) facing east
>>and south watching a thick lower cloud cover get fiercely blown
>>- roughly from west to east (possibly southwest to northeast?).
>>We had very strong winds that afternoon and evening. The sky
>>was not fully overcast and there were two levels of cloud cover.
>>The upper cloud layer was much less dense, more dispersed, and
>>did not move nearly as rapidly as the lower cloud cover.
>
>>As I looked up between, say, +/-35 degrees to the horizon I saw
>>a perfectly round very white object come into my view moving
>>slowly in a straight line roughly east to west (possibly
>>northeast to southwest) above the lower cloud cover (at roughly
>>the same level as the upper cloud cover).  In any event it
>>appeared to be moving in the direction opposite to the wind.
>
>If the object was a satellite(s), or even a balloon, it would
>not travel in the same direction as the wind blown clouds. The
>winds at ground level are often of different strengths and move
>in very different directions to the winds at much higher
>elevations.
>
>>I observed this object between 30 seconds to 60 seconds.
>>Towards the end of the sighting the object appeared to smoothly
>>turn away from me slightly as it moved into clouds in the upper
>>cloud layer where I could no longer see it.  It did not reemerge
>>that I could see.
>
>If the object was indeed the Radcat sateltttlite, it would have
>been visible for several minutes as it travelled from horizon to
>horizon in a cloudless sky.
>
>>I cannot estimate the size of this object.  I am not
>>particularly good at distances and my only real frames of
>>reference are the two layers of cloud cover.  I don't know the
>>elevations.
>
>>I believe it shifted direction slightly because it appeared to
>>reduce somewhat in size before it entered the upper clouds - as
>>if it had turned away and was receding into the distance.
>
>>I won't hazard a guess at the size of the object but I will
>>stand on the fact that it was white, perfectly round, and it
>>moved against the direction of the lower cloud cover.
>
>It is very easy to determine the absolute motion of an object in
>the presence of moving clouds. Also, objects in the sky close to
>the horizon or next to clouds will seem to look much bigger than
>they really are.
>
>>Has anyone else been reporting sightings of objects in the sky
>>around Kamloops recently?
>
>The skies over populated areas are crowded with things such as
>airplanes, balloons, birds, bugs and rapidly moving spots that
>look like a cluster of playful UFOs that are very real but are
>simply artifacts of the human eyeball! Anyone who has ever
>looked up at a cloudless sky while lying on the grass or a
>lawnchair will know what I mean. If 10, 100, or 1,000 people
>reply to your question above to say yes, they too saw objects in
>the sky over Kamloops, what will this prove? If I were to ask
>such a similar but very general question here where I live and
>got 1,000, 10,000 or even 100,000 affirmative results, would
>this make Toronto the new UFO capital of Canada (and give Chris
>Rutkowski a bigger headache with his annual 2003 UFO summary)?

Howdy

You know I have to ask this question of you Nick..... Are you
just here to debunk everything about UFOs in general? Or what is
the real reason you are on this List? I certainly do wonder
myself.

Your answers for things are balloons, bugs, etc.. who knows what
folks are seeing? I am not there. But I can tell you this, what
I saw a couple times in 2002 were not damn balloons, bugs or
anything else like you like to make comments on.


Brian
Getting testy







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                     UFO Spotted Over New Mexico County

From: Eustaquio Andrea Patounas <socex@terra.com.br>
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 20:23:07 -0300
Fwd Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 08:32:17 -0400
Subject: UFO Spotted Over New Mexico County


Source: Cibola County Beacon - New Mexico

www.cibolabeacon.com/articles/2003/09/23/news/news5.txt -

Tuesday, September 23, 2003

Out of the dusk of a western sky comes...

Maybe not Sky King. But perhaps a celestial visitor.

The closeness of Mars and the upcoming equinox may have
triggered some hope for a world-weary resident.

Several calls reporting an unidentified flying object were
received by the New Mexico State Police late Friday afternoon
and an officer was dispatched to a residence about 30 miles west
of Grants on State Route 53.

Sgt. Rick Doty of the NMSP said the unidentified caller was
adamant about the UFO getting ready to land. As the officer was
enroute the resident called headquarters several times to update
dispatchers about the landing pattern of the UFO.

The object also garnered the attention of some fans at the
Grants-Robertson football game at the Port of the Pirates.
Perhaps it was a portent, as the Pirate varsity won its first
game of the season, 14-3.

A check with the Federal Aviation Administration revealed that
the UFO was a weather balloon belonging to the National Weather
Service.

Doty said the craft was "flailing" in its descent as its
parachute had failed to deploy properly.

 - Kelly Donahue







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                      Re: UFO Crashes In Africa - Boone

From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 20:09:51 EDT
Fwd Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 08:35:35 -0400
Subject: Re: UFO Crashes In Africa - Boone


>Many experts are sure we had several UFO crashes in Africa - not
>only South-Africa..... Who knows more about all this?

>For the moment I will not ask something about the famous
>UFO crash in South Africa in 1989.

>Great ufologists from different countries are sure there was a
>crash. The last question was... which weapon they used to hit
>the UFO? Experts in South Africa mentioned a special MASER -
>experimental weapon at that moment. Why not!?

>In reality this case is still open. And this was not the only
>crash in South Africa.

>But...I heard of more crashes in different countries in Africa.

>Of course... we need _real_ facts. The exchange of information
>is important!

>I'm happy the FOIA - in the US - is helping us to discover more
>and more about the UFO crashes in the US.

>Of course... now we learn what the CIA, the Air Force etc., were
>hiding for years and years. It's better we know the truth about
>all this.


Hi Thierry,

Hopefully this response will get through to the list this time.

I have connections and associates with the top academia of
Africa and Africana studies both here and abroad.

I've brought this subject up to them on several occasions and
they were highly interested.

Most spend their time in Egyptian studies yet are well travelled
and knowledgeable of the entire continent and it's myriad of
cultures.

If something crashed there they'll be able to find out about it
in DETAIL from the horse's mouth.

Greg






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                      The Passing Of Graham W. Birdsall

From: The Lost Haven <roy@thelosthaven.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 01:56:02 +0100
Fwd Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 08:41:30 -0400
Subject: The Passing Of Graham W. Birdsall


Dear Colleagues across Our World And Beyond,

I am writing to express my utter shock of the untimely and
sudden death of Graham Birdsall.

First, I wish to send my sincere condolences to Christine and
the rest of the family. I did not have many dealings with
Graham, but on the occasions we spoke, I found him to be a
character full of life and enthusiasm. One who always made the
point of getting the message across that we are not alone on
this lump of rock, drifting through space.

We have lost three great characters in UFO research, in the past
three months:

Victor J Kean - Project Flying Triangle - Died 6th July

Gordon Creighton - FSR -Died 16th July

Graham W. Birdsall  - (Editor UFO Magazine) - Died 19th September

I do hope that UFO Magazine, will be able to pull itself through
the immediate effect that Graham's passing will have. Without
Graham running UFO Magazine, it will need the passion that he
gave the subject to keep everything on track.

I will be paying my own small tribute to Graham, Gordon and
Victor, on my website, and will post the link very soon.

I am placing one of my songs on my site, for everyone to
download as an MP3 file, the track is entitled Future Contact,
something the three of them would sure love to have seen in the
years to come. I feel the track is one which will show people
the depth of emotion and feeling, this subject can have on
peoples lives, be they believer or sceptic, because at the end
of the day, we are all humans looking for answers to the
questions within our own minds. This is a big track, so if you
have broadband, most will have no trouble downloading it.

If you cannot wait for the link, and would like a copy sent to
you on a CD, I will post World-Wide, please contact me at:

TributeCD@thelosthaven.co.uk


Sincere regards,

Roy







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             Re: Kamloops, British Columbia 09-18-03 - Balaskas

From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 21:52:57 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
Fwd Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 08:43:28 -0400
Subject: Re: Kamloops, British Columbia 09-18-03 - Balaskas


>From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO <hbccufo@telus.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 16:00:22 -0700
>Subject: Re: Kamloops, British Columbia 09-18-03

>>From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 22:41:09 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
>>Subject: Re: Kamloops, British Columbia 09-18-03

<snip>

>>Checking the 'Heavens-Above' web site for the early evening of
>>September 18, I found that over half a dozen bright satellites
>>(magnitude 4 or brighter) would have been noticeable in the
>>cloudy dusk sky over Kamloops. Only one of these (Radcat, mag.
>>3.2) would have been first noticed in the SSE, moved across the
>>SE sky (the direction the witness was looking towards) before
>>disappearing to the NNW. I am not suggesting that it was Radcat
>>that the witness saw, just that it was out there in the sky and
>>moving in the same way as what the witness reported that night.

<snip>

>This was no satellite Nick, unless they fly at extremely low
>levels. Better check again.

Hi Brian!

I wasn't saying that it was, but from the witness' own testimony
it could very well have been. A few of these examples are given
below.

"...white object come into my view moving slowly in a straight
line roughly east to west (possibly northeast to southwest)..."

[Considering the direction of travel, this would certainly
describe the appearance and motion of the bright Radcat
satellite also present in the sky over Kamloops early that
evening.]

"...I cannot estimate the size of the object. I am not
particularly good at distances..."

"...I don't know the elevations..."

"...I won't hazard a guess at the size of the object..."

Was it the detective on the TV police show 'Dragnet' that used
the expression "Just the facts, ma'am"? From these comments
above and the rest of the witness' published statement (who
never once called it a UFO) we CANNOT rule out the satellite
explanation. What makes you believe this object was flying "at
extremely low levels"?


Nick Balaskas

P.S. When I left work around 11:00 p.m. last night after
replying to your post on UFO UpDates and was walking to my car I
looked up and noticed multi-coloured lights in a break in the
clouds that looked like an airplane but which seemed to be
stationary in the sky. Moments later a bright white object
whizzed by the airplane. Puzzled, I stopped in my tracks for a
better look only to realize that the multicoloured object was
indeed an airplane and the reason it seemed to me to be
motionless in the sky was because it was flying at the same
speed and direction as the clouds! The bright white oject that
whizzed by the airplane was a star (of course it wasn't the star
that was moving but the airplane which I had the impression was
motionless in the sky. So this potential UFO turned out to be an
IFO. Such illusions can trick even experienced observers of the
sky...

After this experience, I now feel stronger than yesterday that
the object seen in the sky over Kamloops must have been the
Radcat satellite - an another IFO (not UFO) too.








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                    Re: UFO Crashes In Africa - Balaskas

From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 23:00:22 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
Fwd Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 08:47:31 -0400
Subject: Re: UFO Crashes In Africa - Balaskas


>From: Thierry Jonnaert <thierry.jonnaert@pandora.be>
>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 02:23:28 +0200
>Subject: UFO Crashes In Africa

>Hi List,

>Many experts are sure we had several UFO crashes in Africa - not
>only South-Africa..... Who knows more about all this?

Hi Thierry!

It is estimated that as many as 4 billion meteors totalling
about 10,000 tons fall to Earth or burn up in the atmosphere
each DAY. Most are no larger than a grain of sand but some of
the larger ones which mimic the infra-red signature of ballistic
missiles are frequently picked up by military satellites. If
such a meteor is suspected to be an incoming missile fired
against a large military/nuclear power such as America, Russia,
and (at one time) South Africa, an immediate defensive response
is initiated to intercept and destroy the threatening object
(and then quickly recover the wreckage that does make it to the
ground).

Past MUFON Ontario member "UFO Joe" started a personal project
to index all the UFO reports that were stored at the Government
of Canada's National Archives in Ottawa, a huge task he never
completed. Of the few reports that "UFO Joe" did manage to index
and later publish, I requested to examine for myself. I was
surprised to find that a very large percentage of these UFO
cases dealt with unidentified objects that were seen to land or
fall from the sky, some of which were later recovered. For this
reason, I would not be surprised at all if similar such accounts
of UFO landings/crashes are found in the archives of South
Africa and other countries. Has anyone bothered to look?


Nick Balaskas







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               Re: UFO Spotted Over New Mexico County - Young

From: Kenny Young <ufo@FUSE.NET>
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 21:33:16 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 08:53:43 -0400
Subject: Re: UFO Spotted Over New Mexico County - Young


>From: Eustaquio Andrea Patounas <socex@terra.com.br>
>To: UFO UpDates -Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 20:23:07 -0300
>Subject: UFO Spotted Over New Mexico County

<snip>

>Sgt. Rick Doty of the NMSP said the unidentified caller was
>adamant about the UFO getting ready to land. As the officer was
>enroute the resident called headquarters several times to update
>dispatchers about the landing pattern of the UFO.

<snip>

Can anyone say whether or not this Mr. Doty might be a name that
has cropped up in UFO circles before?


Thanks,

KY






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                  Crop Circle Found In Fleminsburg Kentucky

From: Kenny Young <ufo@FUSE.NET>
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 00:56:10 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 08:55:51 -0400
Subject: Crop Circle Found In Fleminsburg Kentucky


Crop Circle In Flemingsburg, Kentucky

In response to an E-mail rumor, investigative action was taken
to verify a report of an alleged crop circle found in Northern
Kentucky. After several phone calls and contact with Mr. Charles
Mattox, news editor of the Flemingsburg Gazette newspaper, the
rumor was put to rest. Indeed a crop circle had appeared in
southwestern Fleming County in May of this year, as confirmed by
Mr. Mattox.

The perfect circle, Mattox said, was found in a Rye field and
its size was likened to that of something bigger than a silo
foundation.

"Everything was normal and then overnight this thing appeared,"
Mattox said. He also said the crop formation was discovered just
prior to local flooding from heavy storms in the area.

The formation was said to be perfectly circular when first
found, but its shape had apparently deteriorated after heavy
winds from the storms.

Mattox informed that Jerry Wagner, Fleming County Sheriff, was
an eye-witness to the circle and also said that it was perfectly
circular when he saw it before the storms hit.

"My photos were taken after the storm hit and you can tell the
symmetry of the circle is altered by the wind," Mattox said. "I
don't think the wind made the circle because the night it
appeared there was no wind."

Mattox did retain several samples of the crop which were
effected, having them in his newspaper office and looking at
them during my conversation with him.

"It is fairly unusual," he said, estimating that the phenomena
could have been caused by some sort of heat source.

The crop circle appeared in an area near Tea Run and is still
somewhat visible, according to Mattox.

Word of this formation came to me from a rumor of a crop circle
sighting by E-mail from a Fleming County resident who had heard
of a crop circle in her area earlier in the summer, and this
same person also suspected that there was a news article that
made mention of it somewhere.

Interestingly, this location is less than XXX miles from a more
intricate crop formation found August 24, 2003 adjacent to the
legendary Serpent Mound State Memorial in Adams County, Ohio.
Further, this location is also along an Ohio River corridor of
reported UFO sightings that has been noted by investigators.
Researchers have sought to address the numerous sightings as
misidentification of stars and planets plus advertising
searchlights used near Proctorville, Ohio.

"The probabilities of obtaining good samples from this are
diminished," said Nancy Talbott of BLT Research, "due to the
time involved from its discovery in May to now in mid-September,
plus its likely the field has been harvested."

Mr. Mattox did prepare and publish a local news story on this
formation, accompanied by photographs. The news story appeared
in the Flemingsburg Gazette but word of the crop circle
apparently did not circulate beyond that region and information
concerning it will only now become available to those interested
in researching the suspected phenomena.

Arrangements have been made to travel to the location on
Thursday, September 25 with Ted Robertson of Bloomington,
Indiana, to survey the location and take samples to forward to
Nancy Talbott of BLT Research, Cambridge, Massachusetts, for
scientific analysis.

Photographs of the crop circle taken by Mr. Mattox have been
furnished and will be posted to the UFO Research website, URL
listed below.

Filed,
September 23, 2003

Kenny Young

--
UFO Research
http://.home.fuse.net/ufo






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             Press Release - Paradigm Research Group - 09-24-03

From: Stephen Bassett <Disclosure2003@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 02:56:26 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 09:02:08 -0400
Subject: Press Release - Paradigm Research Group - 09-24-03


PRG
Paradigm Research Group

Press Release
September 24, 2003

Washington, DC - Paradigm Research Group is pleased to announce
executive director, Stephen Bassett, has signed with prestigious
New York literary agency, Sanford J. Greenburger Associates.
Well known agent, Matt Bialer, will represent Bassett in a
series of books addressing the politics of disclosure.  The
first book, which is being written in co-authorship with
Canadian researcher, Grant Cameron, will be presented to
publishers next week.  It will focus on the relationship between
sitting American presidents and extraterrestrial related
phenomena, with an emphasis on the Carter and Clinton
administrations.

Bassett has also just signed with Washington, DC based Du Plain
International Speakers Bureau, which provides outstanding
lecturers to venues across the United States.

These new relationships are important to reaching a broader
mainstream audience, particularly in the power centers of New
York and Washington, DC, with the facts surrounding the
extraterrestrial presence and the 46-year effort to embargo
these facts from the American people.

Websites:

Sanford J. Greenburger Associates: www.sjga.com
Duplain International Speakers Bureau: www.duplain.com
Paradigm Research Group: www.paradigmclock.com

Contact:

Paradigm Research Group
E-mail: ParadigmRG@aol.com
Phone: 202-431-2459
4938 Hampden Lane, #161
Bethesda, MD 20814







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                      Re: UFO Crashes In Africa - Hatch

From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 00:46:22 -0700
Fwd Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 09:05:05 -0400
Subject: Re: UFO Crashes In Africa - Hatch


>From: Thierry Jonnaert <thierry.jonnaert@pandora.be>
>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 02:23:28 +0200
>Subject: UFO Crashes In Africa

>Hi List,

>Many experts are sure we had several UFO crashes in Africa - not
>only South-Africa..... Who knows more about all this?

>For the moment I will not ask something about the famous
>UFO crash in South Africa in 1989.

>Great ufologists from different countries are sure there was a
>crash. The last question was... which weapon they used to hit
>the UFO? Experts in South Africa mentioned a special MASER -
>experimental weapon at that moment. Why not!?

>In reality this case is still open. And this was not the only
>crash in South Africa.

>But...I heard of more crashes in different countries in Africa.

>Of course... we need _real_ facts. The exchange of information
>is important!

>I'm happy the FOIA - in the US - is helping us to discover more
>and more about the UFO crashes in the US.

>Of course... now we learn what the CIA, the Air Force etc., were
>hiding for years and years. It's better we know the truth about
>all this.


Hello Thierry:

I'm not sure what you mean by experts, I know of only two cases
(out of a database of 18,100+) of anything I might call a crash,
anywhere in Africa, ever:

#3049: 1952/12/25? 23:20h  19:11E  33:43S SAF RSA CAP
NE/PAARL,RSA: PSH ASKS for WATER:OBS SHOWN SCR:
OID INJURED:DETAILED Conversation: /FSR v24#2
/r244 UFO AFRINEWS biannual; C. Hind Issue No. 3

#6332: 1960/04/05? ??:??h  34:50E  19:40S SAF MZB BEI
near BEIRA,Mozambique: ORG SCR WHISTLES+LANDS:
4 OIDS RUN to WOODS:SCR EXPLODES!: /Magonia #502
/r195 FLYING SAUCER REVIEW: (FSR)  Volume 6 #5

.. and I wouldn't stake my life (or 5 dollars) on either of
these.

As for the infamous crash in South Africa (debris flown to the
USA etc.) I have a short listing with no details by date (
1989/MAY/07 ) here:

   http://www.larryhatch.net/DISCRED.html

That was pretty well shot to pieces on this List if I remember
correctly.

There was a third African case where a saucer "hit the
sand" in Richards Bay, S.Africa.  I left that out because the
lit portholes didn't go dark, and there was no mention of the
helmeted occupant being inconvenienced.


Best wishes

- Larry Hatch








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   Sep > Sep 24

                          Sorrow As UFO Expert Dies

From: Sheyllah Salles F. Pires <sheyllah@terra.com.br>
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 06:22:04 -0300
Fwd Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 09:08:40 -0400
Subject: Sorrow As UFO Expert Dies


Source: Express & Star - Wolverhampton, UK

http://www.expressandstar.com/artman/publish/article_42680.shtml

Sep 24, 2003, 09:28:00

A leading UFO researcher and writer who gave a number of talks
in the Black Country has died.

Graham Birdsall, editor of UFO Magazine, died on September 19,
two days after undergoing a seven hour operation following a
brain haemorrhage.

Tributes have been paid to 49-year-old Mr Birdsall, who lived
with his family in Leeds, by members of the Stourbridge-based
UFO Research Midlands group - Uform.

Mr Birdsall was a guest of Uform on many occasions.

A spokesman for the group said: "It is a sad loss to the UFO
community and he will be missed by all.

"He was a special friend to Uform and has helped us and guided
us through the past nine years.

"Members of Uform who will always remember him for his bluff
humour and vociferous support of the UFO community."

Mr Birdsall was the founder of Quest International, an
organisation which organises UFO conferences and publishes
research and footage.

He leaves a wife Christine, daughters, Helen and Louise,
granddaughter Katy, brother Mark and son-in-law Russel.

Representatives from Uform will attend Mr Birdsall's funeral on
September 30 at St Mary's Parish Church, Whitkirk, Leeds. Uform
meets at The Bell Hotel in Market Street. Visit www.uform.org







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   Sep > Sep 24

                        Re: Graham Birdsall - Gevaerd

From: A. J. Gevaerd - Revista UFO <gevaerd@ufo.com.br>
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 07:26:49 -0300
Fwd Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 09:11:41 -0400
Subject: Re: Graham Birdsall - Gevaerd


>From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais@wanadoo.fr>
>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 12:12:47 +0200
>Subject: Re: Graham Birdsall

>>From: A.J. Gevaerd - Revista UFO <gevaerd@ufo.com.br>
>>To: <UfoUpdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>>Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 11:45:59 -0300
>>Subject: Graham Birdsall

>>It is devastating to know that Graham is gone. He was a dear
>>friend and partner.

>>Graham was an outstanding man and UFO researcher. A loving
>>father and husband, a caring friend and a responsible person. A
>>man who has done a remarkable job for Ufology in the UK, Europe
>>and all over the world. He will be deeply missed.

>>In this sad moment I can recall that just a few weeks ago, when
>>Engllish UFO pioneer Gordon Creighton passed away, Graham wrote a
>>beautiful tribute to him. Now he is joining Creighton.

>>The World UFO community has lost two great men in a short period
>>of time.

>>Go in peace, my friend. You may now know the final secrets about
>>our "other" friends.

>Yes, "devastating" is the right word, because Graham was  pillar
>for international ufology. I met him  in Brasilia,  in Leeds and
>Laughlin, and I always saw him as one of the reliable
>researchers in the field. He would never have supported dubious
>people like Rael and Urandir.

>Let's hope that his magazine and the conferences will continue.


Dear Gildas,

You said it very wwell, my friend. Graham was a serious
researcher who wouldn't take any Rael or Urandir at all.
Fortunatelly, there are still many UFO researchers around the
world who wouldn't give a minute of their time to hoaxers. I am
afraid, however, that even the very few researchers who waste
their time promoting hoaxers do considerable damage to the
serious investigation of the UFO Phenomena.

All the best,

A. J.







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   Sep > Sep 24

             World's First Alien Abductee Suffering Lung Cancer

From: Loren Coleman <lcoleman@maine.rr.com>
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 06:57:34 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 09:13:24 -0400
Subject: World's First Alien Abductee Suffering Lung Cancer


Source: Wireless Flash

http://www.ncbuy.com/news/wireless_news.html?qdate03-09-24&nav=VIEW&id=U9C985M06
8Y030924

September 24, 2003

World's First Alien Abductee Suffering Lung Cancer

PORTSMOUTH, N.H. (Wireless Flash) -- The world's first alien
abductee just celebrated the 42nd anniversary of her abduction -
- and it might be her last.

Friends of Betty Hill say the 84-year-old who currently lives in
Portsmouth, New Hampshire, is suffering from lung cancer.

That didn't stop her from recently celebrating the 42nd
anniversary of her abduction, which happened September 19, 1961.

On that night, Betty and her husband, Barney, were reportedly
taken aboard a disc-shaped craft and given a medical examination
by a group of aliens.

Hill claims her E.T. examiners were bald, big-eyed and only
about 5 feet tall but, otherwise, looked human.

Most people don't like being probed, but Mrs. Hill says the
encounter wasn't bad at all and told the E.T.s to stop by
anytime.

The E.T.s have yet to pay her a visit but they may want to soon.
She's going through chemotherapy for lung cancer and says she
wouldn't mind if they sent her a "get well" card.








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   Sep > Sep 24

                         'UFO' Sewage Not From Plane

From: Eustaquio Andrea Patounas <socex@terra.com.br>
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 09:55:18 -0300
Fwd Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 09:39:21 -0400
Subject: 'UFO' Sewage Not From Plane


Source: Independent Online, South Africa

www.iol.co.za/index.php%3Fclick_id%3D2024%26art_id%3Dqw1064361960467B252%26set_i
d%3D1

September 24 2003

UFO Sewage Not From Plane, Says Official

Wellington - The mystery of what unidentified flying object
dumped a load of what looks like and smells like sewage all over
a farmhouse near New Zealand's capital, Wellington, remained on
Wednesday after the Civil Aviation Authority said it definitely
did not come from a plane.

An analysis of the muck that splattered the house in Takapu
Valley on September 14 confirmed that it had no trace of the
chemicals always put in an aircraft toilet, authority
spokesperson Bill Sommer said.

Farmer Shonnie Gordon - who raises sheep and cattle and knows
something about the subject - is not convinced and is taking a
sample to a laboratory specialising in human faeces for a second
opinion.

Since she spoke about the day that the UFO hit the house, there
has been a spate of other reports of mystery droppings from
around the country, with ducks and geese mainly blamed.

'But if it was a bird, it's a hell of a sick one'

The house of Mark Davis in Palmerston North, 14km north of
Wellington, was hit on Sunday, according to Wednesday's Dominion
Post newspaper.

"I didn't hear a plane," he said, "but if it was a bird, it's a
hell of a sick one. It was from one end of the house to the
other."


- Sapa-DPA











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   Sep > Sep 24

                       Shame On SCI-FI & Fenton Bailey

From: Katharina Wilson <K_Wilson@alienjigsaw.com>
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 09:54:37 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 12:21:34 -0400
Subject: Shame On SCI-FI & Fenton Bailey


Hello List:

Last night I watched "UFOS: The Field Guide" on the Sci-Fi
channel, produced by Fenton Bailey and another person whose name
flashed by so fast, one wonders if they even wanted anyone to
know who created this junk.

I am amazed at what an unprofessional, ill-conceived and mean-
spirited piece of garbage "UFOS: The Field Guide" is.

Narrated by someone with a silly British accent, ostensibly
trying to sound like the android character C-3PO from Star Wars,
this program mixed facts about the UFO-abduction phenomenon with
blatant lies and misinformation.

Below is a small sample of the unbelievable statements made
during the program. "Them" refers to the aliens and or UFOs.

Misinformation:

"Don't photograph them: They can sense when they are being
photographed and they will take action against you."

While some UFOs have reacted to being photographed, what is
misrepresentative here is the fact that the viewer is being told
not to photograph a UFO. If enough fear is instilled in people
who then go on to see a UFO and they are told not to photograph
them, there will be a lot less photographs, and therefore, less
proof (to analyze) of their existence.


Disinformation:

"If you are abducted, get hypnotized: You will remember
everything that happened to you."

While hypnosis can be a useful tool for the retrieval of
memories (as well as other uses) no one ever remembers
"everything" that happened to them simply by undergoing
hypnosis.

If Fenton Bailey had read just one first-year psychology book,
he would have known this basic fact.

What they are telling people is, if you think you are an
abductee, run out and get hypnotized so "you will remember
everything." The problem is, there are still very few people in
the fields of psychiatry and psychology who will provide the
type of support needed for someone who believes they have been
abducted by aliens.

Chances are, people who run out to their closest M.D./Ph.D.
/hypnotist will come away with a prescription for an SSRI, be
told that they were molested by a family member, or worse.


Blatant Lie

"If you think the aliens are attracting or are drawing your
energy from you: The biggest source of energy from the human
body is methane gas and the aliens don't like this."

What - flatulence keeps the aliens away? Fenton, are you a
moron?

"If you think you are an abductee..." followed by a short list
of "identifiers" one of which, _incredibly_ is:

"You have a sexual attraction to Livestock."

This comment slanders anyone who has ever been abducted. I
cannot imagine how the abductee felt who was interviewed for
this program.

Fenton, you are not only a moron, you are a sick puppy.

If it was Sci-Fi's intention to do a "tongue-and-cheek"
production about the UFO-abduction phenomenon, then why did they
interview a woman (abductee) who came across as credible and
very sincere, Budd Hopkins, Bill Hamilton, John Schussler, a
fire-fighter who had a spectacular up-close encounter, and other
equally qualified people to speak about this subject?

Could it be that Sci-Fi's production of "Out of the Blue"
ruffled too many feathers? Did they need to "balance" their
programing in order to diffuse the facts they brought to light
to the general public during "Out of the Blue" or "Taken"?

Shame on Fenton Bailey and Sci-Fi for producing and airing this
despicable piece of garbage.


-- K. Wilson







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   Sep > Sep 24

                        Re: Graham Birdsall - Baiata

From: Maurizio Baiata <mbalien@tin.it>
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 15:58:44 +0100
Fwd Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 12:48:22 -0400
Subject: Re: Graham Birdsall - Baiata


>From: A. J. Gevaerd - Revista UFO <gevaerd@ufo.com.br>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 07:26:49 -0300
>Subject: Re: Graham Birdsall

>>From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais@wanadoo.fr>
>>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 12:12:47 +0200
>>Subject: Re: Graham Birdsall

>>>From: A.J. Gevaerd - Revista UFO <gevaerd@ufo.com.br>
>>>To: <UfoUpdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>>>Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 11:45:59 -0300
>>>Subject: Graham Birdsall

>>>It is devastating to know that Graham is gone. He was a dear
>>>friend and partner.

>>>Graham was an outstanding man and UFO researcher. A loving
>>>father and husband, a caring friend and a responsible person. A
>>>man who has done a remarkable job for Ufology in the UK, Europe
>>>and all over the world. He will be deeply missed.

>>>In this sad moment I can recall that just a few weeks ago, when
>>>Engllish UFO pioneer Gordon Creighton passed away, Graham wrote a
>>>beautiful tribute to him. Now he is joining Creighton.

>>>The World UFO community has lost two great men in a short period
>>>of time.

>>>Go in peace, my friend. You may now know the final secrets about
>>>our "other" friends.

>>Yes, "devastating" is the right word, because Graham was  pillar
>>for international ufology. I met him  in Brasilia,  in Leeds and
>>Laughlin, and I always saw him as one of the reliable
>>researchers in the field. He would never have supported dubious
>>people like Rael and Urandir.

>>Let's hope that his magazine and the conferences will continue.

>You said it very wwell, my friend. Graham was a serious
>researcher who wouldn't take any Rael or Urandir at all.
>Fortunatelly, there are still many UFO researchers around the
>world who wouldn't give a minute of their time to hoaxers. I am
>afraid, however, that even the very few researchers who waste
>their time promoting hoaxers do considerable damage to the
>serious investigation of the UFO Phenomena.


Hi,

And special thanks to Gildas, A.J. and Philip Mantle for their
words. I too had a chance to spend some time with Graham, in
Brasilia, and found him not only frank and soft spoken and
very British I may say. Moreover, he was an excellent journalist
and investigator. I know what type of pressure Graham had to
cope with, being, myself, in the same journalistic activity for
many years, in Italy.

I know that Graham had the guts to keep the good work for the
accomplishment of truth.

Not an end - I hope - for Grahaham's mission.


Maurizio Baiata

Former Editor of UFO Network
Dossier Alieni
Stargate Magazine







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   Sep > Sep 24

                   Re: 'UFO' Sewage Not From Plane - McCoy

From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy@charter.net>
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 07:41:50 -0700
Fwd Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 12:51:19 -0400
Subject: Re: 'UFO' Sewage Not From Plane - McCoy


>From: Eustaquio Andrea Patounas <socex@terra.com.br>
>To: UFO UpDates -Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 09:55:18 -0300
>Subject: 'UFO' Sewage Not From Plane

>Source: Independent Online, South Africa

>www.iol.co.za/index.php%3Fclick_id%3D2024%26art_id%3Dqw1064361960467B252%26set_
id%3D1

>September 24 2003

>UFO Sewage Not From Plane, Says Official

>Wellington - The mystery of what unidentified flying object
>dumped a load of what looks like and smells like sewage all over
>a farmhouse near New Zealand's capital, Wellington, remained on
>Wednesday after the Civil Aviation Authority said it definitely
>did not come from a plane.

>An analysis of the muck that splattered the house in Takapu
>Valley on September 14 confirmed that it had no trace of the
>chemicals always put in an aircraft toilet, authority
>spokesperson Bill Sommer said.

>Farmer Shonnie Gordon - who raises sheep and cattle and knows
>something about the subject - is not convinced and is taking a
>sample to a laboratory specialising in human faeces for a second
>opinion.

>Since she spoke about the day that the UFO hit the house, there
>has been a spate of other reports of mystery droppings from
>around the country, with ducks and geese mainly blamed.

>'But if it was a bird, it's a hell of a sick one'

>The house of Mark Davis in Palmerston North, 14km north of
>Wellington, was hit on Sunday, according to Wednesday's Dominion
>Post newspaper.

>"I didn't hear a plane," he said, "but if it was a bird, it's a
>hell of a sick one. It was from one end of the house to the
>other."

Hello, all.

Having been the recipient of a... ah, er, "load" from a
departing flock of Canadian Geese, I must  say most large water
fowl (yes Pelicans included) jettison the "extra" weight as they
take off.

We should find out soon.


GT McCoy

Ruined  a perfectly good mackinaw by the way.
My uncle's Black Lab ened up with it -o n his bed.
He _loved_ it.






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   Sep > Sep 24

                     Re: UFO Crashes In Africa - Ledger

From: Don Ledger <dledger@ns.sympatico.ca>
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 12:51:07 -0300
Fwd Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 12:55:04 -0400
Subject: Re: UFO Crashes In Africa - Ledger


>From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 23:00:22 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
>Subject: Re: UFO Crashes In Africa

>>From: Thierry Jonnaert <thierry.jonnaert@pandora.be>
>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>>Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 02:23:28 +0200
>>Subject: UFO Crashes In Africa

>>Hi List,

>>Many experts are sure we had several UFO crashes in Africa - not
>>only South-Africa..... Who knows more about all this?

>It is estimated that as many as 4 billion meteors totalling
>about 10,000 tons fall to Earth or burn up in the atmosphere
>each DAY. Most are no larger than a grain of sand but some of
>the larger ones which mimic the infra-red signature of ballistic
>missiles are frequently picked up by military satellites. If
>such a meteor is suspected to be an incoming missile fired
>against a large military/nuclear power such as America, Russia,
>and (at one time) South Africa, an immediate defensive response
>is initiated to intercept and destroy the threatening object
>(and then quickly recover the wreckage that does make it to the
>ground).

>Past MUFON Ontario member "UFO Joe" started a personal project
>to index all the UFO reports that were stored at the Government
>of Canada's National Archives in Ottawa, a huge task he never
>completed. Of the few reports that "UFO Joe" did manage to index
>and later publish, I requested to examine for myself. I was
>surprised to find that a very large percentage of these UFO
>cases dealt with unidentified objects that were seen to land or
>fall from the sky, some of which were later recovered. For this
>reason, I would not be surprised at all if similar such accounts
>of UFO landings/crashes are found in the archives of South
>Africa and other countries. Has anyone bothered to look?


Hi Nick,

From January 1968 and onward to the early nineties,in '94 if
memory serves, the National Research Council was given the task
of investigating UFOs. This was handed over from the RCAF to the
NRC.

Chris Styles and I attributed this move from the RCAF to the NRC
as being triggered by two high profile cases in 1967, the
Stephen Michalak encounter and the Shag Harbour Incident.
Certainly in the latter case much money was expended due to the
search-which the AF could little afford or wanted to shoulder.

The National Research Council did little in the way of research
other than to filter out the Fireball and Meteor reports and
pass these along to the astronomocal community.

A committtee of astronomers was set up to investigate, determine
which, and disseminate these reports to the community of
astronomers. For the most part, the other reports were ignored.
Thus a federaly funded agency was remiss in its duties.

Whether this was lack of interest or deliberate is uncertain,
however many of the more interesting UFO reports have been
buried. In fact the NRC on oscassion and even the National
Archieves act like some intelligence agency when it comes to
getting certain files and reports from them.

Additionally, like Hynek, some of the F & M committee got sucked
into the unexplainable side of the phenomenon and spent time on
their own investigating cases that were obviously not fireballs
or meteors.

Somewhere I have the document [everything is in boxes due to my
moving to a new locale] which set up this committee and lists
it's members.

Again, if memory serves, there was a participant from York
University. There were two from Nova Scotia. Professor Rupert
MacNeill of Acadia University and the shadowy Jesuit priest from
St. Mary's University-Father Burke-Gaffney who was pulling
strings, behind the scenes, during the days following the Shag
Harbour Episode.

At a very rough count there were nearly 7,800 documents residing
with the National Archieves [NA], which were shipped over from
the NRC. Including those all ready filed at the NA that's a very
small fraction of the cases reported during the years from 1947
to 1994.

Even many of those on record are incomplete with the meaty
section of the document missing with only the coverpage and date
retained. Others are in terrible condition or too dark to make
out. I imagine this is the case with other venues as well, such
as South Africa.


Best,

Don Ledger







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                     Re: UFO Crashes in Africa - Cammack

From: Diana Cammack <cammack@mweb.co.za>
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 16:58:07 +0200
Fwd Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 13:07:52 -0400
Subject: Re: UFO Crashes in Africa - Cammack


>From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 23:00:22 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
>Subject: Re: UFO Crashes In Africa

>>From: Thierry Jonnaert <thierry.jonnaert@pandora.be>
>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>>Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 02:23:28 +0200
>>Subject: UFO Crashes In Africa

>>Many experts are sure we had several UFO crashes in Africa - not
>>only South-Africa..... Who knows more about all this?

<snip>

>I would not be surprised at all if similar such accounts
>of UFO landings/crashes are found in the archives of South
>Africa and other countries. Has anyone bothered to look?

>Nick Balaskas

When I was doing my PhD research in the Pretoria (govt) archives
in the late 1970s I read a story in an English-language paper,
ca. 1895 (Pretoria News?) about a sighting - bright lights seen
to hover around the high veldt. As I was on a different quest at
the time, I did not take note of it, unfortunately.

I do think a search of the South African archives (which are
well organised) would turn up sightings, just as field research
in SA and further north would turn up stories of landings,
possibly abductions etc.

I remember reporting a sighting a few years back by villagers in
Malawi, who had a 'coffin shaped' UFO overfly their village,
making a number of them sick.

The advantage of doing research out here is that few, except
urban residents, are going to know about ET, Close Encounters,
Taken, etc. They are not 'contaminated' by popular,
media-inspired opinions about UFOs.

On the other hand, anyone doing this sort of work will have to
wade through stories about magical flying vehicles, sent aloft
by witch doctors, etc.

In other words, Africans have their own culturally inspired ways
to explain the unexplainable.

With Cynthia Hind gone, we need a group of people doing such
research out here.


Diana Cammack
Cape Town







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   Sep > Sep 24

                  "Monster" Object Said To Roam Ohio Skies

From: Kenny Young <ufo@fuse.net>
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 12:37:45 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 13:10:38 -0400
Subject: "Monster" Object Said To Roam Ohio Skies


SUBJECT: UFO SIGHTING
DATE: Monday evening, Sept. 22, 2003 - Around 7:30 pm
LOCATION: Ghanna, OH (Franklin Cty, suburb of Columbus)

SUMMARY:

32-year old Daryl from Ghanna, OH (name changed, phone number on
file) husband and father of two children, called to report
sighting a massive UFO Monday evening.

"This was not just a light in the sky," he said, "it was a huge
black 'thing' shaped like a disc,"

There were four persons who reportedly saw the object. Along
with the 32-year old primary claimant, other witnesses were his
31-year old wife, his 13-year old daughter and 9-year old son.
All agree the object was something strange.

The four were driving north on Beaverbrook Road around 7:30 p.m.
as dusk was setting in. There was still residual daylight
visible when a massive aerial object became apparent to them.
The disc-shaped object was in front of their car and slowly
heading west, almost seeming to float silently.

"At first I thought it was a shadow but then I understood it was
in the sky, and I'm still trying to comprehend what it was I
saw," the witness said. "I've never been a UFO believer but I
can't deny what I saw. It was massive."

"This thing was so large you could have put 3 or 4 "747
jetliners" inside of this thing," the witness alleged.

The immense object appeared directly in front of them and
occupied a space, from their perspective, that filled the entire
windshield of their 1994 Honda.

"The first thing I started looking for were wings. I kept trying
to see wings," he said. "But there weren't any. The object
looked like it was just floating, really low, just above
treetops."

The witness discounts any possibility that the object was a
blimp. "No, this could not have been a blimp, there were no
markings at all."

When first seen by the family, there were lights around the
object. There was some disagreement about the color of the
lights; the daughter thought they were orange while the wife
said there were multiple colored lights.

The lights that were surrounding the disc-shaped object were non
flashing, according to the witness, but more or less changed
color "in unison."

"What was very strange was when the lights went out and the
object went totally black," the witness said.

The witness reports trying follow the soundless object in his
car, and notes that it seemed to fly over an area that was not
particularly isolated.

"The object looked like it was going over the high school area,"
the witness reported, while also noting that he did not see any
people or traffic in the area at the time.

"It was so low that the trees were blocking it, it seemed like
it took forever for the object to pass by because it was so
slow."

"I could not discern any surface material, structure or color,"
he said. "This thing was pitch black after the lights went out,
you couldn't see any surface detail."

The witness seemed awestruck even discussing the sighting. "It
was a monster," he said.

"I didn't know what to think, it was bigger than anything I've
ever seen."

The witness could not tell how far away the UFO was because of
its tremendous size, but it looked as if it was just behind the
immediate treetops. It continued traveling until it was no
longer visible behind the treetops, but their impression was
that the object was incredibly low.

The object was reportedly visible over Ghanna, Ohio and the
witness is certain that is should have been seen by others.

The witness informs that he heard nothing in the news about this
object and found it very strange that there's been nothing on TV
or radio since the sighting.

"I thought about calling the police, but they would just say
we're nuts," the witness said.

The weather conditions at the time of the sighting were clear to
partly cloudy.

INVESTIGATION

The Ghanna police department was contacted at 614-471-8080 and
the dispatcher taking the call said that she was not on duty
yesterday and that there was no logbook available for her to
check, but that Officer Jenkinson was the dispatcher on duty at
the time. She was not familiar with any reports, however.

COMMENT

The witness said that his daughter and son have drawn sketches
of the object and that their drawings were very similar. He said
that he will hook up his scanner and try to get the sketches to
me through E-mail. I also furnished him the phone number of
Roger Pinson, investigator with N.I.D.S. (National Institute for
Discovery Science) in Las Vegas, Nevada and encouraged the
witness to report the sighting with N.I.D.S. also.

The witness sounded cogent and sincere. Clearly, this is an
amazing sighting report to take, the sheer size of this object
is absolutely phenomenal. The witness, who characterized this
object as a  "monster" due to its immense size, seemed to be
clear thinking and certain this could not have been a blimp or
other explainable object. In a case such as this, it is
reasonable to assume there were other witnesses to the event. As
an investigator taking this report, I acknowledge that it is an
incredible account to relate but I choose to believe the witness
in his sincerity.

Filed,
September 23, 2003

Kenny Young
--
UFO Research
http://home.fuse.net/ufo







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   Sep > Sep 24

                    Re: UFO Crashes In Africa - Jonnaert

From: Thierry Jonnaert <thierry.jonnaert@pandora.be>
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 19:03:00 +0200
Fwd Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 13:20:04 -0400
Subject: Re: UFO Crashes In Africa - Jonnaert


>From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 00:46:22 -0700
>Subject: Re: UFO Crashes In Africa

>>From: Thierry Jonnaert <thierry.jonnaert@pandora.be>
>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>>Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 02:23:28 +0200
>>Subject: UFO Crashes In Africa

<snip>

>I'm not sure what you mean by experts, I know of only two cases
>(out of a database of 18,100+) of anything I might call a crash,
>anywhere in Africa, ever:

>#3049: 1952/12/25? 23:20h 19:11E 33:43S SAF RSA CAP
>NE/PAARL,RSA: PSH ASKS for WATER:OBS SHOWN SCR:
>OID INJURED:DETAILED Conversation: /FSR v24#2
>/r244 UFO AFRINEWS biannual; C. Hind Issue No. 3

>#6332: 1960/04/05? ??:??h 34:50E 19:40S SAF MZB BEI
>near BEIRA,Mozambique: ORG SCR WHISTLES+LANDS:
>4 OIDS RUN to WOODS:SCR EXPLODES!: /Magonia #502
>/r195 FLYING SAUCER REVIEW: (FSR) Volume 6 #5

>.. and I wouldn't stake my life (or 5 dollars) on either of
>these.

>As for the infamous crash in South Africa (debris flown to the
>USA etc.) I have a short listing with no details by date (
>1989/MAY/07 ) here:

>http://www.larryhatch.net/DISCRED.html

>That was pretty well shot to pieces on this List if I remember
>correctly.

>There was a third African case where a saucer "hit the
>sand" in Richards Bay, S.Africa. I left that out because the
>lit portholes didn't go dark, and there was no mention of the
>helmeted occupant being inconvenienced.


Hi Larry,

Thank you very much for your research, and your information.

So, you don't have more details about that case near
Beira, Mozambique?

You were mentioning a third case. But, I don't understood
why you let that out? Don't you have more details,... or could
you explain more about that case ?

It seems that Israel and Iran had some very special UFO cases in
the past. All the information about those cases are welcome.
So I could compare everything.


All the best,

Thierry Jonnaert






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               Re: World's First Alien Abductee Suffering Lung

From: Wendy Connors <FadedDiscs@comcast.net>
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 11:06:55 -0600
Fwd Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 13:22:29 -0400
Subject: Re: World's First Alien Abductee Suffering Lung


>From: Loren Coleman <lcoleman@maine.rr.com>
>To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 06:57:34 -0400
>Subject: World's First Alien Abductee Suffering Lung Cancer

<snip>

I really am not trying to split hairs here, but from all
practical standpoints, Antonio Villas-Boas should probably count
as the first alien abductee... he was molested inside an egg-
shaped craft in 1957, which is 4 years before the Barney and
Betty Hill abduction.


Wendy Connors








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   Sep > Sep 24

               Re: Kamloops, British Columbia 09-18-03 - Vike

From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO <hbccufo@telus.net>
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 09:57:04 -0700
Fwd Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 15:27:57 -0400
Subject: Re: Kamloops, British Columbia 09-18-03 - Vike


>From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 21:52:57 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
>Subject: Re: Kamloops, British Columbia 09-18-03

>>From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO <hbccufo@telus.net>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 16:00:22 -0700
>>Subject: Re: Kamloops, British Columbia 09-18-03

>>>From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>>Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 22:41:09 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
>>>Subject: Re: Kamloops, British Columbia 09-18-03

<snip>

>>This was no satellite Nick, unless they fly at extremely low
>>levels. Better check again.

>I wasn't saying that it was, but from the witness' own testimony
>it could very well have been. A few of these examples are given
>below.

>"...white object come into my view moving slowly in a straight
>line roughly east to west (possibly northeast to southwest)..."

>[Considering the direction of travel, this would certainly
>describe the appearance and motion of the bright Radcat
>satellite also present in the sky over Kamloops early that
>evening.]

>"...I cannot estimate the size of the object. I am not
>particularly good at distances..."

>"...I don't know the elevations..."

>"...I won't hazard a guess at the size of the object..."

>Was it the detective on the TV police show 'Dragnet' that used
>the expression "Just the facts, ma'am"? From these comments
>above and the rest of the witness' published statement (who
>never once called it a UFO) we CANNOT rule out the satellite
>explanation. What makes you believe this object was flying "at
>extremely low levels"?

>Nick Balaskas

>P.S. When I left work around 11:00 p.m. last night after
>replying to your post on UFO UpDates and was walking to my car I
>looked up and noticed multi-coloured lights in a break in the
>clouds that looked like an airplane but which seemed to be
>stationary in the sky. Moments later a bright white object
>whizzed by the airplane. Puzzled, I stopped in my tracks for a
>better look only to realize that the multicoloured object was
>indeed an airplane and the reason it seemed to me to be
>motionless in the sky was because it was flying at the same
>speed and direction as the clouds! The bright white oject that
>whizzed by the airplane was a star (of course it wasn't the star
>that was moving but the airplane which I had the impression was
>motionless in the sky. So this potential UFO turned out to be an
>IFO. Such illusions can trick even experienced observers of the
>sky...

>After this experience, I now feel stronger than yesterday that
>the object seen in the sky over Kamloops must have been the
>Radcat satellite - an another IFO (not UFO) too.

Hey Nick

What made me think the object was flying at a lower altitude ?
maybe because I telephoned the witness later on and asked a
bunch of question and found out that indeed the object was not
where satellites are located. Glad you feel strongly that the
Kamloops sighting was what you say is the Radcat satellite, this
is only your opinion and you have the right to express it.

The thing is I will not be calling the Kamloops sighting a
satellite, I will let you stick to that one.

Curious, because you walked outside and saw strange colored
lights, what the heck does this have to do with the Kamloops or
any other sighting for that matter ? You saw what you saw, it
was a plane. What other people see, who knows, but in most, and
I mean most of the reports I get these objects are not planes.
No way !!!!!!!  Simple deduction, many of the reports I receive
are from folks who are living in rural areas and we do not have
a lot of aircraft flying over us at night as you would in a
large center. Matter of fact I talk to every tower and ask the
question, was flying, if anything. In all cases no aircraft were
reports flying.

You seem to be stuck in some kind of mode here. I am a very open
minded person and do check out every case I receive, unless it
was a streak of light flying quickly across the sky. I am
looking for answers myself to these sightings. But heck if I am
going to be saying this is what these things are, which you
suggested in your last email. At least give the military some
credit Nick.

I also am guessing here, but I wonder if you thought the 157
plus witness to the July 28, 2003 sighting were under some mass
hypnotic spell or all they saw was a bug infested sky, or planes
flying at such low levels it frightened folks so bad they ran
indoors with their families. Give me a break. I may not have the
answers for a lot of this, but at least my mind is open to
different possibilities. See the easy thing is to be able to sit
back and read the reports, then make comments, which is fine.
But you are not the one who picks up the telephone and talks to
each of these witnesses, at least I don't think so, maybe you
do. One can get a good idea how the people felt or what they
saw. Just sitting down face to face with people and doing an
interview can be very powerful.

Also you mentioned I should talk to people in the scientific
community to get answers, well I have had my experience with
that. And as I mentioned before, they think most of us who do
something in the UFO field are all crazy. I should know, I have
read many a letters stating just that. BTW - This is approaching
these types of people in a positive way, not just going off the
wall. So are they help, not really. I get more out of a
newspaper.


Brian









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               Re: World's First Alien Abductee Suffering Lung

From: Will Bueche <wbueche@centerchange.org>
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 13:59:17 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 15:29:38 -0400
Subject: Re: World's First Alien Abductee Suffering Lung


>From: Wendy Connors <FadedDiscs@comcast.net>
>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 11:06:55 -0600
>Subject: Re: World's First Alien Abductee Suffering Lung Cancer

>I really am not trying to split hairs here, but from all
>practical standpoints, Antonio Villas-Boas should probably count
>as the first alien abductee... he was molested inside an egg-
>shaped craft in 1957, which is 4 years before the Barney and
>Betty Hill abduction.

>Wendy Connors


Splitting hairs is fine, IMO. Here's my hand:

"The Middle Ages:

In circa 800, during the rein of Charlemagne, it is reported
that Agobard, Bishop of Lyons, succeeded in saving from the
stake three men and one woman who had descended from an airship
claiming to be returning to Earth after having been kidnapped by
celestial beings who allegedly showed them wonders."







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               Re: World's First Alien Abductee Suffering Lung

From: Stan Friedman <fsphys@rogers.com>
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 15:04:50 -0300
Fwd Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 15:31:38 -0400
Subject: Re: World's First Alien Abductee Suffering Lung


>From: Wendy Connors <FadedDiscs@comcast.net>
>To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 11:06:55 -0600
>Subject: Re: World's First Alien Abductee Suffering Lung Cancer

>>From: Loren Coleman <lcoleman@maine.rr.com>
>>To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>>Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 06:57:34 -0400
>>Subject: World's First Alien Abductee Suffering Lung Cancer

><snip>

>I really am not trying to split hairs here, but from all
>practical standpoints, Antonio Villas-Boas should probably count
>as the first alien abductee... he was molested inside an egg-
>shaped craft in 1957, which is 4 years before the Barney and
>Betty Hill abduction.


Actually Budd Hopkins has many abduction cases predating the
1950s. However, the Hill case was certainly the first case to
get serious media attention with the two articles in LOOK
Magazine and John Fuller's "The Interrupted Journey".

Add in the Zeta Reticuli Incident (32page full color booklet,
some copies still available from me) by Astronomy Magazine
featuring the star map work of Marjorie Fish, and the NBC TV
production of "The UFO Incident" starring James Earl Jones and
Estelle Parsons. Dr. Benjamin Simon's notes to John Fuller are
in the Fuller papers at the Boston University Archives.


Stan Friedman

www.v-j-enterprises.com/sfpage.html








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   Sep > Sep 24

                          Filer's Files #39 -- 2003

From: George A. Filer <Majorstar@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 13:40:51 EDT
Fwd Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 15:36:38 -0400
Subject: Filer's Files #39 -- 2003



Filer's Files #39 -- 2003 Skywatch Investigations.
George A. Filer,   Director Mutual UFO Network Eastern
September 25, 2003, Webmaster: Chuck Warren --
Website: www.GeorgeFiler.com/
Majorstar@aol.com
Sponsored by: OPC-3

UFO FLIES AT AIR SHOW - MORE SPECTACULAR SIGHTINGS COMING!

The purpose of these files is to report the UFO eyewitness and
photo/video evidence that occurs on a daily basis around the
world and in space. This week's files investigate: Are there
aliens among us? Maine - triangular cluster of lights, New York
- a bright light almost a peach color, New Jersey - flattened
oval and red lights, Maryland - flying triangle, North Carolina
-- hovering bright red and green lights, South Carolina - more
orange lights over Atlantic, Ohio - flying triangle
investigation, Indiana - great balls o' fire videotaped,
Illinois - three objects spread apart in Draco,  Nebraska - two
unidentified crafts playing,   Washington  -  green ball, UFO
photos and electric blackout, Canada - lights and abduction
investigation, Mexico - saucer like lights, Scotland -lights,
England - UFO video at air show, Belgium -flying triangle. Do we
have a Moon base? I'm sorry to report that Graham W. Birdsall
the Editor of "UFO Magazine," passed away in England.

ARE THERE ALIENS AMONG US?

This weekend I was shown through a millionaire's home
overlooking the Atlantic Ocean. On the roof of the home there is
a spectacular view of Long Beach Island, the Bay and the Ocean.
 I said, "This would be an ideal spot to look for UFOs."  Andy
assured me that it was and one had been seen a couple weeks ago.

The discussion turned philosophical into why they are they here.
 He informed me that they were mating with humans and developing
a superior race.  He had recently met several women who appeared
to be at the most 35 to 40 years old.  Their actual age was 65
to 70. They had no surgery or medical tricks to keep them young.
 They had knowledge of the aliens and their ships.  His
conclusion was that they were bred to be in position to
accomplish some task in the future. Although they did not know
what the tasks would be, it seemed involve the medical field
since they were trained professionals.

I, personally, have interviewed, four nurses who when abducted
had been shown glimpses of the future and a terrible war.  They
were within the futuristic war scenes giving aid to aliens who
had been wounded.  They were told that many of Earth's nations
were fighting with the aliens and many were fighting against
them.  Some were shown catastrophes on Earth such as Earthquakes
and volcanic eruptions.  They told me that during their
abduction there was a meeting with a divine or sacred being.
 This seems an attempt to provide a form of religion and bonding
with the abductee.  Often the abductee has specimens taken from
her and is impregnated.  Later the abductee is shown her baby
offspring that generally appears half alien and half human.  The
implication is the aliens intend to occupy Earth or have their
offspring do so.  There are many indications they are already
here occupying bases under the sea and in various mountain
retreats.  Additionally, large alien space ships may orbit
Earth. In Fostoria, Ohio George Ritter took this photo of a
large cylinder UFO in early August. []

MAINE - TRIANGULAR CLUSTER OF LIGHTS -

YORK -- My mother took a photo of a triangle of lights on August
31, 2003, when she was up having coffee at 4:30 AM. One of those
lights just shot off from the other at incredible speeds.  There
were more lights in a cluster.  When we examined the pictures on
September 14th, we saw the lights at different spots in all the
pictures. In addition, there are pictures of my fiancee's baby
shower and there are no lights in those pictures and they were
both on the same roll of film. I will send you one of the
pictures if you think we got something. Thanks to Peter
Davenport Director UFOCenter

NEW YORK - A BRIGHT LIGHT ALMOST A PEACH COLOR

GLENFIELD - A group of friends were sitting on the deck of a
home in Upstate New York near Ft. Drum on September 9, 2003, at
8 PM, when they noticed over the trees a very bright glowing
object. They knew it wasn't Mars or the Moon and continued to
watch for about thirty seconds when it totally faded out. It
reappeared several times in different spots and faded out again.
There were two separate objects that joined and then separated
again. One faded then the other. Thanks to NUFORC

NORFOLK - An hour later, three UFOs were viewed appearing and
reappearing at a rapid pace. The witness writes, "My husband and
I witnessed an extremely bright light SW of our home at 9 PM. As
we watched it vanished...reappearing horizontally several miles
from the original spot almost instantly. It then disappeared and
reappeared with another back at the original location. They
vanished, reappearing only seconds later in a triangle shape.
They hovered and circled each other, then vanished. My son woke
up the previous night with a bright light shinning in his
window. When he peered into the brightly moon lit sky, he
distinctly saw a triangle shaped craft with red, white and blue
lights that changed to red, yellow, and green. The craft moved
back and forth coming closer and then shifted rapidly and then
vanished.  Thanks to Peter Davenport

NEW JERSEY - FLATTENED OVAL AND RED LIGHTS

CAPE MAY - The witness writes, "Kevin and I were walking north
along the beach from the Lighthouse and I felt strange like I
was being watched." About 9 PM, we saw two red orange lights
bigger then I have ever seen. They quickly spread outwards into
ten lights in each direction, and then converged into two lights
as if lining up. The sky got extremely bright and then there was
a flash of sparklers that cannot be compared to fireworks. It
looked very much like a calculated formation and they then
disappeared.  The witness states, "I grew up on military
installations and I have never seen anything like this since the
lights were too bright to be planes or flares," These were too
high to be flares and there were no trails. The lights were
about eight times brighter than Mars. Sometimes there was one
light but then three lights appeared and flew in formation and
then blinked out. On one occasion the light stayed on for a
minute and then disappeared. My first reaction was fear and
anxiety. I have a background in physics and was shocked to see
what I saw. I have brothers who are pilots in the Air Force, so
this was very bizarre.

BEDMINSTER TOWNSHIP -- On September 8, 2003, at 11:05 PM, while
watching Mars I observed a brightly lit flattened oval object in
the sky just above the treeline south of my house in Bedminster
and above Bridgewater. The object suddenly appeared in my view
and moved slowly to the west for ten seconds before
disappearing. The horizontal object was a flattened oval, and
seemed to have two stories of numerous windows or lights. The
object was a quarter wider than the moon. Immediately after
seeing the object, I made a sketch of the object and telephoned
the Bedminster township police to report what I had seen and
asked if anyone else has reported seeing this object. The answer
was no. I am a college grad, an artist and a journalist. I have
never witnessed anything like this before. Thanks to Peter
Davenport UFOCenter

MARYLAND - FLYING TRIANGLE

ELLICOTT CITY -- Three bright white lights were seen hovering in
a triangular formation to the right of Mars on September 9,
2003.  The lights turned an orangish color at 8:45 PM. The
lights then disappeared after two minutes. Thanks to Peter
Davenport UFOCenter

NORTH CAROLINA -- HOVERING BRIGHT RED AND GREEN LIGHTS

MEBANE -- Looking west along Interstate 40, the observers saw a
light in the sky that was moving very slowly to the north on
September 11, 2003, at 10 PM. Red and green lights were moving
around a bright white center light. It was too slow and almost
stationary so it could not have been an airplane. The observers
thought it might be a blimp, but there were none in the area.
The other aircraft in the sky were moving quickly, consistent
with normal airplane flights. The bright light we saw was moving
too slow for any plane and the light movements were very
strange.Thanks to Peter Davenport UFOCenter

SOUTH CAROLINA - MORE ORANGE LIGHTS OVER ATLANTIC

MYRTLE BEACH - A teacher and a law enforcement officer were
sitting on their front porch about five blocks from the beach on
September 9, 2003, at 10 PM. The witness states, I noticed
several yellowish or orange lights over the Atlantic Ocean. I
drew my wife's attention to the lights just before they blinked
out. She did get to see them, saying that there were four lights
configured so that they appeared to be the headlights of a car.
 A similar Myrtle Beach sighting was reported to NUFORC on
August 31, and it was suggested these could be landing lights.
As a resident of Myrtle Beach, I can state that these lights
were the wrong color and were stationary, whereas aircraft
landing lights are a brilliant white and slowly move toward the
airport.  Our sighting was several days after that other one,
and yet the similarity is striking. As to our backgrounds, my
wife works in law enforcement and I am a teacher. Thanks to
Peter Davenport UFOCenter


OHIO - FLYING TRIANGLE INVESTIGATION
SEAMAN, ADAMS COUNTY -- Kenny Young was contacted about the
sighting of a tremendously large flying triangle seen at
midnight of September 13, 2003.  Mandy, a 21-year old, her Mom,
her sister and one of her friends saw a huge object off Route
32. They observed a triangular-shaped formation of lights that
flashed in sequence and changed color from pinkish-red, blue,
white to yellow. Coyotes were heard howling ridiculously loudly
during the sighting, and also the previous evening. The Adams
County Sheriff Department was contacted by telephone (937-544-
2314) to find out if anyone had reported a UFO sighting sometime
around midnight this morning. The dispatcher taking the call was
interested in the report, saying she lived near Belfast, but
that the office had received no calls on it. She took my number
and said that it would be posted in the office for future
reference in the event of any UFO calls.  Next, the Highland
County Sheriff's office was contacted at 937-393-1421 to find
out if anyone had reported a UFO near Belfast, Ohio after
midnight. The dispatcher said he checked the daily log and could
find no mention of a UFO complaint.

COMMENT:  Kenny Young states, "I view this witness as sincere
and reliable." Belfast, is 5-miles northwest of the Serpent
Mound State Memorial, where a crop formation was discovered on
August 24.  I notified Nancy Talbott of BLT Research (Cambridge,
MA) and Nancy had additional questions. We had a 3-way telephone
conversation. The witness informed us that her father -- had
just returned from the store where "a woman came in and told of
a 'UFO' seen last night." This UFO sighting is but one of many
recent reports originating from Southern Ohio in the past few
weeks. Details of the other sightings can be found at
 http://home.fuse.net/ufo Thanks to Kenny Young Hotline = 513-
588-4548

INDIANA - GREAT BALLS O' FIRE VIDEOTAPED

SOUTH BEND - Tribune's writer Ken Bradford reports, "Chris Hardy
and his uncle, Brad Hardy, are hoping to grab a lot of attention
among meteorologists with the ball lightning they caught on
videotape."  Brad Hardy was keyed in on the thunderstorm he was
watching through the viewfinder of his camcorder.  Chris saw, an
eerie ball of light crossing the sky about 9:30 PM, on August
21, 2003, in a heavy rainstorm.  No pilot would be flying on a
night like that so perhaps it was a UFO?  Ball lightning is one
of those quirks of nature that scientists haven't quite figured
out.  Some scientists even argued that ball lightning didn't
exist. Several sources indicate ball lightning has never been
caught on videotape.  "We got it," Brad Hardy said.  According
to the US National Lightning Detection Network, which provides
lightning strike information to the National Weather Service,
 ball lightning is not well-studied and it's not well-documented
so a videotape would be very much of interest to the lightning
community." Rick Mecklenburg, WSBT-TV meteorologist, had a
chance to see the videotape.  "It's amazing," he said. Snip.
Thanks to kbradford@sbtinfo.com  (574) 235-6257.  UFO Research
http://home.fuse.net/ufo ILLINOIS - THREE OBJECTS SPREAD APART
IN DRACO

COAL VALLEY - As I often do, I was looking at the stars just
after 11 PM, on September 3, 2003, essentially reviewing my
knowledge of the heavens. I also had a small fire that I was
tending to nearby, the remnants of an old tree. I was looking at
the northwestern sky, noting that it was remarkably clear this
evening. I began to trace out the constellations of Hercules and
Corona Borealis, when I noticed that within the adjacent
constellation of Draco three previously motionless objects that
I had assumed where stars, began to spread apart in the sky!
These objects resembled stars; however, they spread apart,
briefly, and began to travel in tandem across the sky! I watched
them travel across the sky in a triangular pattern until the
three objects grew faint and disappeared.  Satellites move
faster across the sky and do not orbit this close to each other.
Certainly, they would not grow faint and disappear. These flew
too high to be planes. Their flight lasted 25 seconds and was
something extraordinary. Thanks to Peter Davenport UFOCenter

NEBRASKA - TWO UNIDENTIFIED CRAFTS PLAYING OMAHA - The witness
was standing on his deck, on September 3, 2003, at 11:30 PM,
when he noticed two objects hovering near the horizon. The
lights didn't blink on and off, they pulsed from dim to bright
like the rhythm of a heartbeat. There were a lot more lights,
than I've ever seen on a plane. My brother came out and saw them
start to move. One began an upward climb that curved up in a
perfect half circle on an arching path up and over the
stationary one.  It then started to move in our direction and
everyone in my house was on the deck watching. It didn't make a
sound as it flew right over us. The stationary one flew off to
the northeast as the lights pulsed and changed color, it flew
smoother than a falcon catching an updraft. Thanks to Peter
Davenport UFOCenter

WASHINGTON - GREEN BALL, UFO PHOTO, UFO ELECTRIC BLACKOUT

RENTON - On September 8, 2003, at 11:30 PM, looking east, a
large moon sized green ball shot down at a 75-degree angle at
what seemed like 400 miles per hour. No sound or explosion
occurred it just vanished.  A light trail followed it but
dissipated almost immediately. Thanks to Peter Davenport
UFOCenter

BANGOR SUBMARINE BASE -- Dr. Annamarie Johnstone writes
concerning  electrical blackouts, "During my close-up, daylight
sightings, just outside Bangor Submarine Kitsap on October 29,
1996, and immense disc hovered in a tree saddle, adjacent and
parallel to high-tension electric power lines.  A power outage
occurred in North Kitsap County immediately thereafter, with
service to 4,343 homes and businesses for four hours.  While
returning from the Base after the sighting, a multitude of power
company trucks and employees were trying to resolve the problem
at a local electric substation.  It was a clear sunny day,
eliminating weather as a cause to the loss of power. Thanks to
Dr. Johnstone

ALASKA - MORE STARS MOVING AROUND OVER ANCHORAGE

ANCHORAGE -- On September 9, 2003, 11:30 PM, the witness noticed
an object looking like a star was moving across the sky and
changing direction once or twice. I have a report already filed
from April 19, and since then I have had 2 more similar
sightings, including one on Monday. Both times have involved The
second sighting was also watched by my friend Dan, but I don't
remember the exact date on that one, it was around 3 weeks ago.
I am still at a loss since if they were satellites, they
wouldn't change direction, and if they were planes, there'd have
at least been noise, or blinking, or something. They always just
fade away too, instead of continuing on their way. Has anyone
seen similar stuff lately? Thanks to Peter Davenport UFOCenter

CANADA - LIGHTS AND ABDUCTION INVESTIGATION

SASKATCHEWAN -- At 8:45 PM, the witness saw thirty lights in a
triangular patterns on September 12, 2003.  An additional five
were moving at high speed trying to catch up to the lead
triangles. They were all moving northwest across the sky.  In
the last month, my wife and I have seen four other triangles of
lights. These sightings kind of freaked me out.  There were so
many light patterns perfectly formed in triangles, with the
lights never breaking formation, with the exception of the ones
moving individually.

HOUSTON, BC -- An elderly couple living on Bold Road, reported
that they watched a very strange object hovering over the top of
Pea Cock Mountain on September 2, 2003, at 11:05 p.m. Lights
were running around the outside of the round object as it moved
along the top of the mountain for a kilometer without making a
sound. Then it stopped and dropped down behind the mountain
rather quickly. The following night at 11:45 PM, the same
extremely bright object showed up over the mountain for 7
seconds before it dropped out of sight.

ABDUCTION IN KELOWNA, BC - Investigator Brian Vike writes, "At
midnight on July 31, 2003, two ladies went stargazing in an
isolated area and saw three white stars in a triangle shape that
started moving together." The lights changed to a neon green and
the object flew to a position just ahead of their car. Pat
shined her flashlight down the road and five sets of eyes were
staring from 40 feet away.  They started coming towards the
women. Pat yelled, "Get in the car," but everything slowed down
and the ignition failed." Finally the car started and they sped
off towards home and realized 25 minutes of time was missing."
As they were just about home, they turned onto Baker Street, and
saw a bright, glowing neon green ball low in the sky. The object
started maneuvering in the sky. When the ladies car stopped, so
did the object. The ball of green light started heading towards
them at a high rate of speed and hovered high above their car.
Pat drove into an orchard that they thought would hide them.
 Pat said; "They will never find us here." Linda pointed, "We
don't have just one green ball of light, there are now three,
glowing green objects each half the size of a full moon." The
way the green lights were in the sky, it looked as if they
formed a triangle and were all moving together. After a short
period of time, each of the green lights moved away.

Once safe at home, both ladies were shaken and when they awoke
that morning, Pat discovered a large bruise on her left breast
and another on the bottom of her foot. These were extremely
painful. Linda said, "I feel rough this morning." Then blood
came pouring from her nose and she complained of great pain in
her lower back area. Pat looked at Linda's back and saw a large
circle burned into her skin in the lower tailbone area. Bruises
were found on Linda's body that looked like finger marks-three
of them on each thigh.  Linda, who was visiting from Abbotsford,
consulted her family doctor since she was still experiencing
terrible back pain.  Her doctor examined her back and said, "If
I didn't know any better, I would say you have a radiation
burn." Brian Vike's HBCC UFO investigation continues. Photo at
 CANADA HBCC

MEXICO - SAUCER LIKE LIGHTS

MEXICALI - The witness was driving parallel to the border on
September 9, 2003, at 10 PM, when his wife asked about the
lights in the northeastern sky.  The lights were flying on top
of one another just across the border from Calexico.  Then some
smaller lights start to appear -- and they resembled a flying
saucer or an airplane shooting fire and the lights followed the
path.  The lights were moving and too high up to be ground
lights. Thanks to Peter Davenport UFOCenter

SCOTLAND - BRIGHT LIGHT

BONNYBRIDGE -- On September 9, 2003, at 8:23 PM, with twilight
cloud cover and good visibility a light took the form of a dome
shaped bright white light. Whilst traveling to Falkirk for a
meal with my partner, we both noticed a bright light in the
distance within 4 miles. At first we both thought it was a star,
however as I was driving towards the direction of the light
(above Falkirk) both my partner and myself clearly saw the white
light became dome shaped. After about one minute of clearly
seeing the object, we both witnessed the light simply disappear.
The light disappeared as if the light was being extinguished
from the top to the bottom. Thanks to Peter Davenport UFOCenter

ENGLAND - UFO VIDEO AT AIR SHOW

GOODWOOD FESTIVAL -- Santiago Yturria writes, "On September 5,
2003, at the Revival air show, two World War II aircraft were
flying in formation above the crowd when a disc entered the
formation in a clear sky.  A British Spitfire and a P-47 were
flying in formation, when a disc shaped UFO joined them at 1:35
PM.  Simon, a 29-year-old from West Sussex was filming the event
with a JVC Hi-8 PAL camcorder and his images are excellent.  The
maneuvering UFO could have caused a dangerous collision. The
footage is crystal clear with zooms to both the aircraft's and
the UFO. The two planes, flying in formation and making a turn
from left to right are filmed with an unknown brownish object,
round in shape that appeared in the scene passing from right to
left close to the airplanes at moderate speed.  The images are
clear and the unknown object was caught in several frames by
Simon's camera.  Simon made a great zoom to the object and it's
shape and size was clearly revealed.  A disc shaped UFO was
floating making balancing movements and appears to be a metallic
structure. Simon and the crowd were impressed by the unknown
intruder.  Thanks to Santiago Yturria and Jeff Rense. The film
is at http://www.rense.com/general41/flying.htm


      []



EDITOR's NOTE: -This is the second well known Air Show that has
been joined by a UFO. A Stunning video was shown on Ukrainian
ICTV and Russian television showing a UFO skiming a Ukrainian
fighter jet moments before it crashed into a crowd of aviation
enthusiasts at Sknilov Aerodrome killing 84 people on July 27,
2002.   The video clearly shows a UFO that is mentioned by the
TV commentator, which passed near the descending Su-27 fighter
that killed 27 children, and wounded 199.  It was the most
tragic air show crash in history.  The UFO's presence during
this tragedy was confirmed again and attracted public attention
when published in the "Komsomolskaja Pravda" newspaper in Moscow
and the "Komsomolskaja Pravda" in the Ukraine on August 7, 2002,
 Page 10. The UFO that participated in the Air Show in England
fortunately did not cause the fighters to crash.  The UFO pilots
must be aware that that high quality video is available at most
air shows indicating their willingness to be videotaped, and to
show they're maneuverability and superiority.  Both of these
incidents indicate a brazenness and openness not generally shown
by UFO pilots.  I predict they intend to display themselves to
more of the world's population in exciting and spectacular ways
in the future. Photo is taken from video and shows cylinder
shaped UFO, outlined in dark disc. []


GRAHAM W. BIRDSALL -  APRIL 7, 1954 To  SEPTEMBER 19, 2003

LEEDS -- I'm sorry to announce that our friend Graham W.
Birdsall the Editor of "UFO Magazine," suffered heart failure
and passed away on September 19th.  His passing came just two
days after undergoing a seven-hour operation following his
recent brain hemorrhage.  His wife Christine and daughters were
by his side. Graham brought serious UFO research into the public
domain and was an enthusiastic Ufologist and will be greatly
missed. Funeral arrangements have been made for 1 PM, on Tuesday
September 30. The service will be held at St. Mary's Parish
Church, Leeds, England.

BELGIUM - FLYING TRIANGLE

GENT, EAST-FLANDERS -- A 43-year old woman living in an upper
floor apartment along the River Schelde, noticed on September
14, 2003, at 3:15 AM, a strange object above the inner court of
her apartment complex.  The witness suddenly woke up, and
everything was deadly quiet, no trains, no clock, or other
noises. She only felt a strange vibration and could hear more
sharply and was very quick-witted.  Sitting on her bedside, she
noticed from out her window a dark isosceles flying triangle,
from about ten meters. The object moved at a distance of 20
meters and a height of 50 meters. On each corner there was a big
bright white light. It moved very slowly from the east to the
west and covered a distance of 3 meters in about 7 seconds. The
continuance was very slow without shaking and it gradually moved
out of her sight.  When the sighting was over, she could hear
her ticking clock again and the night light now worked.
 Although the sighting lasted only a few seconds,  it was 15
minutes later on the clock!  She was very amazed by this. She
had fifteen minutes of Missing Time.  She tried to wake her
husband, who had slept through all this, but he didn't want to
hear her story.  As a kid she had experienced something similar.
She was sure this object was not from Earth and wanted to be
noticed. Thanks to Toine Trust Site Admin @ UFOPlaza x UFOPortal
site: www.UFOPlaza.nl

DO WE HAVE A MOON BASE?

BOSTON - Claude DiDomenica writes, "Previously classified
military documents may hold key to answer to a moon base.
 Ufonetwork.com announced today the release of a new E-Book CD-
ROM entitled, "Project Horizon: Do we have a Moon base???"  In
1959, a technical task force that included the US Army Corps of
Engineers, authored the Project HORIZON study. The primary
objective of the study was to build the first permanently manned
self-sustaining moon base by 1966.  Claude DiDomenica said, "I
first learned about Project HORIZON from the controversial 1997
book, 'The Day After Roswell,' by US Army Colonel Philip J.
Corso (Retired). Although the general theme of the book was
about the extraterrestrial presence, there was an interesting
chapter called Project Moon Base."  Mr. DiDomenica added, "In
July of 1997, I contacted the historian of the Corps of
Engineers to verify the Project HORIZON study existed. He
replied, not only did the study exist, but that he would be
happy to send me a copy."

Mr. DiDomenica received the document and said, "I was pleasantly
surprised. Not only did I receive the document, but also
received three Appendices of Volume I that were not included in
'The Day After Roswell,' and the complete Volume II of the
study."  Volume II of the study is around 300 pages, which are
included on the CD-ROM.  "I took great care in scanning Volumes
I and II, and created a user-friendly navigation system," stated
Mr. DiDomenica. He continued, "I also wrote an overview,
explaining my theory that we have a secret moon base."  Mr.
DiDomenica explains, "As far as I know, the 400+ pages of
previously classified US Army documents have never been released
to the public and what I am doing is providing some convincing
evidence that a moon base was very serious in 1959." So, the
question of 'Do we have a Moon base?', is up to the readers of
my E-Book."  This provocative CD-ROM creates more questions than
it provides answers.  What I do hope is that people will find
these documents interesting and perhaps prove that a moon base
may be real. DiDomenica ufonetwork.com 781/ 440-6595
http://ufonetwork.com/projecthorizon/

NEW JERSEY UFO CONGRESS

Pat Marcatillio is holding The Great UFO /ET Congress in
Bordentown, NJ on October 4 and 5th at the Days' Inn. Speakers
are: Dolores Cannon, Dr. Hans Holzer, Dr. T. Peter Park, Budd
Hopkins, Rob Swiatek, and Rick Fisher, Details are at--
http://www.drufo.org.

FREE RELOCATION SERVICE FOR OUR READERS

If your thinking of moving or buying or selling a home any where
in the United States.  Let my wife and I help you.  Many of the
largest companies use our service.  Just contact us at:
Majorstar@aol.com

OPC-3 HELPS HEAL AND ALLERGIES

Collie in Australia writes, "I took some OPC-3 last year to
recover from a serious illness; two other people here were
bedridden for 6 months, then recovered quickly on taking OPC-3.
 Medically it checks out well on the public database with
studies done by the Pasteur Institute.  Will try to cure another
sick person with it next week!  Thanks to Collie.

Editors Note: Many people have written to me about their success
with OPC-3.  My local MD recommended this product to me and now
my whole family is now taking it.  The results are so impressive
that I'm now making it available to my readers.  It is made from
a combination of grape seed, pine bark and red wine extracts in
addition to bilberry and citrus extracts. These OPC's are super
effective free radical neutralizers.  They are not limited to
being strong antioxidants, they are also crucial in their role
in supporting the circulatory system and strengthening the
capillaries.  OPC-3 is a natural food supplement that should be
taken for a lifetime.

WHAT YOU SHOULD KNOW WHEN BUY OR SELL REAL ESTATE!

Get your free report and learn how you can obtain the best real
estate agent to help your buy or sell a home.  To get a free
copy of this report e-mail me at : Majorstar@aol.com

MUFON UFO JOURNAL -- For more detailed monthly investigative
reports subscribe to the MUFON JOURNAL.  A MUFON membership
includes the Journal and costs only $35.00 per year.  To join
MUFON or to report a UFO go to http://www.mufon.com/.  To ask
questions contact MUFONHQ@aol.com or HQ@mufon.com.  "The MUFON
Journal is now accepting qualified advertising, please call 1
(303) 932-7709 for more information."

Filer's Files is copyrighted 2003 by George A. Filer, all rights
reserved.  Readers may post the COMPLETE files on their Web
Sites if they credit the newsletter and its editor by name and
list the date of issue.  These reports and comments are not
necessarily the OFFICIAL MUFON viewpoint.  Send your letters to
Majorstar@aol.com.  Sending mail automatically grants permission
for us to publish and use your name.  Please state if you wish
to keep your name or e-mail confidential.  CAUTION, MOST OF
THESE ARE INITIAL REPORTS AND REQUIRE FURTHER INVESTIGATION.

Regards,

George A. Filer   www.GeorgeFiler.com/









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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Sep > Sep 24

             Press Release - Paradigm Research Group - 09-24-03

From: Stephen Bassett <Disclosure2003@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 02:56:26 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 09:02:08 -0400
Subject: Press Release - Paradigm Research Group - 09-24-03


PRG
Paradigm Research Group

Press Release
September 24, 2003

Washington, DC - Paradigm Research Group is pleased to announce
executive director, Stephen Bassett, has signed with prestigious
New York literary agency, Sanford J. Greenburger Associates.
Well known agent, Matt Bialer, will represent Bassett in a
series of books addressing the politics of disclosure.  The
first book, which is being written in co-authorship with
Canadian researcher, Grant Cameron, will be presented to
publishers next week.  It will focus on the relationship between
sitting American presidents and extraterrestrial related
phenomena, with an emphasis on the Carter and Clinton
administrations.

Bassett has also just signed with Washington, DC based Du Plain
International Speakers Bureau, which provides outstanding
lecturers to venues across the United States.

These new relationships are important to reaching a broader
mainstream audience, particularly in the power centers of New
York and Washington, DC, with the facts surrounding the
extraterrestrial presence and the 46-year effort to embargo
these facts from the American people.

Websites:

Sanford J. Greenburger Associates: www.sjga.com
Duplain International Speakers Bureau: www.duplain.com
Paradigm Research Group: www.paradigmclock.com

Contact:

Paradigm Research Group
E-mail: ParadigmRG@aol.com
Phone: 202-431-2459
4938 Hampden Lane, #161
Bethesda, MD 20814







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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Sep > Sep 25

                      Re: UFO Crashes In Africa - Hatch

From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 13:55:40 -0700
Fwd Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 10:00:17 -0400
Subject: Re: UFO Crashes In Africa - Hatch


>From: Thierry Jonnaert <thierry.jonnaert@pandora.be>
>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 19:03:00 +0200
>Subject: Re: UFO Crashes In Africa

>>From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 00:46:22 -0700
>>Subject: Re: UFO Crashes In Africa

>>>From: Thierry Jonnaert <thierry.jonnaert@pandora.be>
>>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>>>Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 02:23:28 +0200

><snip>

>>I'm not sure what you mean by experts, I know of only two cases
>>(out of a database of 18,100+) of anything I might call a crash,
>>anywhere in Africa, ever:

>>#3049: 1952/12/25? 23:20h 19:11E 33:43S SAF RSA CAP
>>NE/PAARL,RSA: PSH ASKS for WATER:OBS SHOWN SCR:
>>OID INJURED:DETAILED Conversation: /FSR v24#2
>>/r244 UFO AFRINEWS biannual; C. Hind Issue No. 3

>>#6332: 1960/04/05? ??:??h 34:50E 19:40S SAF MZB BEI
>>near BEIRA,Mozambique: ORG SCR WHISTLES+LANDS:
>>4 OIDS RUN to WOODS:SCR EXPLODES!: /Magonia #502
>>/r195 FLYING SAUCER REVIEW: (FSR) Volume 6 #5

>>.. and I wouldn't stake my life (or 5 dollars) on either of
>>these.

>>As for the infamous crash in South Africa (debris flown to the
>>USA etc.) I have a short listing with no details by date (
>>1989/MAY/07 ) here:

>>http://www.larryhatch.net/DISCRED.html

>>That was pretty well shot to pieces on this List if I remember
>>correctly.

>>There was a third African case where a saucer "hit the
>>sand" in Richards Bay, S.Africa. I left that out because the
>>lit portholes didn't go dark, and there was no mention of the
>>helmeted occupant being inconvenienced.

>Thank you very much for your research, and your information.

>So, you don't have more details about that case near
>Beira, Mozambique?

All information is in the sources I gave above. I simply catalog
the case with a one line summary for mapping purposes, and of
course with references.

For Beira, MZB again: see Vallee: Passport to Magonia case #502,
and for greater detail: FSR V6 #5.

>You were mentioning a third case. But, I don't understood
>why you let that out? Don't you have more details,... or could
>you explain more about that case ?

Here is the listing for the third case, again with
references.  It doesn't sound like a "UFO Crash"

#6739: 1963/03/13 22:30h 32:02E 28:51S SAF RSA NAT
RICHARDS BAY,S AFR:3M SCR HITS SAND:SVRL LIT PORTHOLES:
MAN W/HELMET seen: /FSR 1963 #5 &
/r8 VALLEE,Jacques: PASSPORT TO MAGONIA. Case #568


>It seems that Israel and Iran had some very special UFO cases
>in the past. All the information about those cases are welcome.
>So I could compare everything.

>All the best,

>Thierry Jonnaert

Passport to Magonia is cited for two of these. There should be a
one paragraph summary at least in Magonia.

Here is a link for another ufo crash in Angola:

 http://iafrica.com/news/worldnews/147085.htm

Here is a copy of the Magonia Richards Bay story etc.

 http://www.chez.com/lesovnis/htm/faqafrica.htm

I quickly found those on a Google search, and recommend you do
something similar.


Best wishes

- Larry Hatch







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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Sep > Sep 25

               Re: World's First Alien Abductee Suffering Lung

From: Louise A. Lowry <ShnSassy1@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 17:42:25 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 10:02:33 -0400
Subject: Re: World's First Alien Abductee Suffering Lung


>From: Wendy Connors <FadedDiscs@comcast.net>
>To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 11:06:55 -0600
>Subject: Re: World's First Alien Abductee Suffering Lung Cancer

>>From: Loren Coleman <lcoleman@maine.rr.com>
>>To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>>Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 06:57:34 -0400
>>Subject: World's First Alien Abductee Suffering Lung Cancer

><snip>

>I really am not trying to split hairs here, but from all
>practical standpoints, Antonio Villas-Boas should probably count
>as the first alien abductee... he was molested inside an egg-
>shaped craft in 1957, which is 4 years before the Barney and
>Betty Hill abduction.


Also not splitting any hairs but there are also abductions that
predated even Antonio Villas-Boas, not to many people know of
the Tujunga Canyon Abductions which was written about and
investagated by Ann Druffel and D. Scott Rogo (1989)

In 1953 the canyons were even more unpopulated than they are
today... but on March 22, 53 it changed these ladies lives
forever... Sara Shaw and Jan Whitley, they were plagues with
sightings, abductions and strange beings... that we have now
known to be fact...while reading this most fascinating story, it
shows that even back then strange rappings sounds and lights,
were a commend thing.....


Love & Light

Louise

--
World Of The Strange Forum:
http://www.worldofthestrange.com/modules.php?name=Forums
#1 Para-Discussion List: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Para-Discuss/






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   Sep > Sep 25

                        Sightings Yet To Be Explained

From: Eustaquio Andrea Patounas <socex@terra.com.br>
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 16:40:31 -0300
Fwd Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 10:10:52 -0400
Subject: Sightings Yet To Be Explained


Source: Airdrie Echo - Alberta Canada

http://www.airdrieecho.com/story.php?id=74874


W/O September 21 2003

UFO researcher contacted by Airdrie and area residents

Paul Wells
Echo Editor


While far from being Alberta s version of Area 51, a Canadian
UFO investigator and researcher says Airdrie and area has been a
veritable hotspot for reported sightings of late.

Brian Vike, director of HBCC UFO Research who has appeared on
countless radio shows as a UFO expert, says he s received
numerous calls on his toll-free UFO hotline reporting sightings
of strange flying objects in the immediate area.

We have started receiving a number of telephone calls and e-
mails from (Airdrie) area residents reporting many strange
lights and objects in the night skies, Vike said.

I do know that (UFO sightings) is sometimes a very strange topic
... but I honestly do look for rational explanations for such
sightings, he added. Most times, I can offer an explanation of
what the folks witnessed, but then I have many cases which also
go unsolved.

According to Vike, there have been three reported sightings in
the Airdrie area over the summer of 2003.

They are:

"July 30 - 11:50 p.m.: An Airdrie woman preparing to turn in for
the night e-mailed the following to Vike: I noticed a bright
blue object in the northwest sky. The object was pulsating a
bright blue-white light and moved very slowly then stopped for
about 10 seconds and then it vanished like the lights went out.
I ve lived in this area for 10 years and never had seen anything
so strange. Thought I should report this to somebody.

"Aug. 23 - 11:23 p.m.: According to Vike, an Airdrie family
reported watching a glowing orange coloured object shoot from
east to west at a very low level.

From what I was told, this object travelled very low, then came
to a sudden stop and stayed stationary for approximately 30
seconds. Then it shot almost straight up and slipped into four
different objects which changed from orange to white. They sat
stunned as all of the objects vanished into the night.

"Sept. 15 - 1:15 a.m.: The most recent sighting is the one which
intrigues Vike the most, as the woman reporting it said she
wasn t the only witness to the alleged event. As such, Vike is
hopeful that others who may have shared the experience will also
come forward.

While the witness was on her way to Calgary (on Highway 2, north
of Airdrie), she saw an object at a low level which then shot up
into the sky very quickly and then came to a complete stop.

The woman told Vike that she pulled her car over to watch the
spectacle, as did other drivers.

There were two cars and two freight liners which also had pulled
over, and in her rear view mirror she could see others doing the
same, Vike said.

The woman told Vike that she initially thought the object was
an aircraft departing from an airport, but then realized that
was unlikely because she was not in proximity to such a
facility.

She realized that there wasn t an airport in the area, he said.
The object, when travelling up into the sky, made a sharp climb
and once it arrived at a high altitude, it came to a complete
stop and then shot toward the northwest and stopped again.

According to the witness, the craft emitted an extremely
lustrous, bright light, moved side to side for a period and then
started to flash.

The witness did contact RCMP to see if others had made a report
about the sighting, but no one had come forward, Vike said.

As such, Vike is hopeful that by going public with the reported
sightings, other potential witnesses will come forward.

Sometimes, we just have to inform the general public that there
is someone out there investigating these sightings, Vike said.
I know I can have an investigator on the scene really quick if I
m contacted.

Vike can be contacted via e-mail at hbccufo@telus.net or toll
free at 1-866-262-1989.








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   Sep > Sep 25

                   St. Laurent Manitoba Lights & Creature

From: Brian Vike HBCC UFO <hbccufo@telus.net>
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 12:15:21 -0700
Fwd Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 10:13:39 -0400
Subject: St. Laurent Manitoba Lights & Creature


St. Laurent, Manitoba

Date:  August 2003 (end of)
Time:  evening (after dark)

I had a telephone call from a gentleman from St. Laurent,
Manitoba on September 22, 2003. The area where this event took
place is mainly a Metis community. The fellow I talked to said
he and his wife bought a business  and have lived in the
community for thirteen years and know many of the area
residents.

In the last week of August, 2003 four youths were driving south
of St. Laurent towards the golf course on golf course road (as
many folks there call it). The road runs by Francis Lake and the
golf course is on the left hand side of the road when traveling
south. As they drove along they noticed an abandoned vehicle off
to the side of the road across from the golf course. At this
point they all saw flashing lights over and above one of the
buildings on the course. The lights seemed to be sitting
stationary in one spot and low over the sheds. They assumed,
after seeing the car pulled off to the side of the road and the
lights flashing,  that someone may have been breaking into the
sheds. Two of the young men decided to sneak in to see if they
might catch someone causing damage, the other two  went back
home to get their parents and have them come down to the area
where all this was taking place.

As the two youths were approximately half way into the course
and as they approached a small road which passed by one of the
dugouts, they heard a very loud, piercing scream. As they kept
walking for approx: another 100 feet, all of a sudden this
"thing" was right in front of them and screaming out this loud
screeching noise. A three foot high creature ran in front of
them and it was only about 25 feet away. Both witnesses were
taken totally by surprise and very frightened as they had no
idea what this thing was. It didn't help that it was dark
outside. Both of them ran back towards the road where they had
been dropped off, but seeing they did not have a vehicle they
cowered in the ditch which ran along side the road hoping that
whatever it was they saw would not find them. Finally their two
friends returned with a couple of the parents and when the
vehicle stopped the two guys who witnessed the creature,
hurridly  jumped  into the vehicle. "Let's get out of here" they
said .... however the parents did go and check the buildings and
found nothing had been disturbed.   They all talked about the
event on their way home.

The lights which were seen hovering over the buildings were a
red, greenish and white colour.  The witnesses  mentioned that
not a sound could be heard coming from where the lights were
seen. Also they  claimed seeing another light hovering over
Francis Lake which was totally red.  Again not a sound could be
heard.

On the same night, shortly after the above sighting
......another man, driving his van, had to slam on his brakes to
avoid hitting  a similar creature. He claimed that it was about
10 feet in front of him when he finally came to a complete stop.
It moved to the driver's side of the van and squatted down,
bending slightly to one side, looked up at the frightened
driver.  The man described the creature as being small and
having a protruding jaw filled with a number of teeth. He put
the truck into reverse and headed out of there as fast as he
could.  After thinking about what just happened, and what he
saw, he broke down and started to cry.

Another series of events have taken place in the same general
area.

A local resident who had some 27 chickens well penned up in a
"heavy steel wired" area, found on the following day, that 20 of
his poultry had disappeared.  A large hole had been ripped in
the strong wire fence. The resident looked around the area and
found one chicken still partly alive in the bushes behind their
home  and it had two puncture holes at the base of its neck.  No
other chickens were found.  Strangely, also there has been a
large number of domestic cats which have gone missing just over
the same time period, which is definitely not normal and there
does not seem to be any explanation for their disappearance.

The fellow claims that there is a lot of history of unknown
objects being seen in and around the community. He also said
that the creature had been spotted on other occasions throughout
the St. Laurent area.

The lights were strange, the creature was strange...  what they
were and whether or not they were connected is anyone's guess.
There does seem to be something very weird happening in this
particular part of Canada.   I will continue to look into this
and see what, if anything more , I can discover about it.  Due
to the community being tight lipped about such strange events
its not going to be an easy task.

Brian Vike, Director
HBCC UFO Research
Canadian Toll Free UFO Hotline 1 866 262 1989 - Free call.
Home - Phone/Fax 1 250 845 2189
HBCC UFO Forum Board
http://216.147.50.102/HBCC-UFO/index.php
email: hbccufo@telus.net
Website: http://www3.telus.net/public/wilbur8/hbcc_ufo_research.htm








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   Sep > Sep 25

              Re: UFO Spotted Over New Mexico County - Maccabee

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac@compuserve.com>
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 18:48:11 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 10:20:23 -0400
Subject: Re: UFO Spotted Over New Mexico County - Maccabee


>From: Eustaquio Andrea Patounas <socex@terra.com.br>
>To: UFO UpDates -Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 20:23:07 -0300
>Subject: UFO Spotted Over New Mexico County


>Source: Cibola County Beacon - New Mexico

>www.cibolabeacon.com/articles/2003/09/23/news/news5.txt -

>Tuesday, September 23, 2003

>Out of the dusk of a western sky comes...

>Maybe not Sky King. But perhaps a celestial visitor.

>The closeness of Mars and the upcoming equinox may have
>triggered some hope for a world-weary resident.

>Several calls reporting an unidentified flying object were
>received by the New Mexico State Police late Friday afternoon
>and an officer was dispatched to a residence about 30 miles west
>of Grants on State Route 53.

>Sgt. Rick Doty of the NMSP said the unidentified caller was
>adamant about the UFO getting ready to land. As the officer was
>enroute the resident called headquarters several times to update
>dispatchers about the landing pattern of the UFO.

Interesting to know that Rick Doty is still into UFOs....  even
if this one turns out to be a balloon.

For an earlier reference to Doty see:

http://brumac.8k.com/kirtland1.html






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   Sep > Sep 25

             Re: Kamloops, British Columbia 09-18-03 - Balaskas

From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 19:22:28 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
Fwd Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 10:22:17 -0400
Subject: Re: Kamloops, British Columbia 09-18-03 - Balaskas


>From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO <hbccufo@telus.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 09:57:04 -0700
>Subject: Re: Kamloops, British Columbia 09-18-03

>>From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 21:52:57 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
>>Subject: Re: Kamloops, British Columbia 09-18-03

<snip>

>>"...I cannot estimate the size of the object. I am not
>>particularly good at distances..."

>>"...I don't know the elevations..."

<snip>

>What made me think the object was flying at a lower altitude ?
>maybe because I telephoned the witness later on and asked a
>bunch of question and found out that indeed the object was not
>where satellites are located. Glad you feel strongly that the
>Kamloops sighting was what you say is the Radcat satellite, this
>is only your opinion and you have the right to express it.

Hi Brian!

You are doing excellent and very valuable work by collecting and
investigating UFO sightings as Director (and sole member?) of
HBCC Research, especially since many of these potentially very
important UFO sightings would never have been reported to
anyone. Thank you also for freely sharing your UFO reports with
other researchers, including us on the UFO UpDates list, for our
comments or to do further investigations on.

My explanation that the object in question was very likely the
Radcat satellite was based on the witness' testimony and the
fact that it was up there in the sky over Kamloops at the time
of the sighting. Radcat also appeared bright and moved in the
same direction and speed as the the witness said in the
incomplete report you sent to us. Satellites can be seen
anywhere in the sky at anytime from any given location on the
Earth. If what the witness saw was a UFO, then why is no mention
made of the bright Radcat satellite that seemed to mimic the
appearance and motion of the object as reported?

>The thing is I will not be calling the Kamloops sighting a
>satellite, I will let you stick to that one.

Neither did the witness call it a UFO! If you do not like any
one's explanations, reasonable or otherwise, you have the right
to believe what wish.

>Curious, because you walked outside and saw strange colored
>lights, what the heck does this have to do with the Kamloops or
>any other sighting for that matter ? You saw what you saw, it
>was a plane. What other people see, who knows, but in most, and
>I mean most of the reports I get these objects are not planes.
>No way !!!!!!!  Simple deduction, many of the reports I receive
>are from folks who are living in rural areas and we do not have
>a lot of aircraft flying over us at night as you would in a
>large center. Matter of fact I talk to every tower and ask the
>question, was flying, if anything. In all cases no aircraft were
>reports flying.

The point I was trying to make is that even experienced
observers of the sky can be fooled. Some others who saw the same
things I saw would have interpreted things differently and
possibly even reported their UFO sighting to you which you very
likely would have been promoting today as another UFO!

>You seem to be stuck in some kind of mode here. I am a very open
>minded person and do check out every case I receive, unless it
>was a streak of light flying quickly across the sky. I am
>looking for answers myself to these sightings. But heck if I am
>going to be saying this is what these things are, which you
>suggested in your last email. At least give the military some
>credit Nick.

Most ufologists and others who have closely studies the UFO
phenomenon would agree that a very percentage, possibly 95% or
more, of all the UFO reports can be easily and reasonably be
given a prosaic explanation such as balloons, bugs, or even some
secret military aircraft (an adjunct professor in atmospheric
science here at York U. has pictures of very fast forming and
extremely high altitude contrails where no known aircraft can
produce). You wrote to me once that we should be very careful
not to throw out the baby with the bath water. I agree but there
is just so much water in ufology these days that we have not
only lost sight of the baby but it may even drown in it.
Promoting a steady flow of uninvestigated or independently
evaluated UFO reports will do similar harm to ufology because
not all UFO reports are reports of UFOs.

>I also am guessing here, but I wonder if you thought the 157
>plus witness to the July 28, 2003 sighting were under some mass
>hypnotic spell or all they saw was a bug infested sky, or planes
>flying at such low levels it frightened folks so bad they ran
>indoors with their families. Give me a break. I may not have the
>answers for a lot of this, but at least my mind is open to
>different possibilities. See the easy thing is to be able to sit
>back and read the reports, then make comments, which is fine.
>But you are not the one who picks up the telephone and talks to
>each of these witnesses, at least I don't think so, maybe you
>do. One can get a good idea how the people felt or what they
>saw. Just sitting down face to face with people and doing an
>interview can be very powerful.

If I can offer some advice to you Brian, it is to continue to be
trusting, understanding and helpful but to also be cautious.
Your hard work and dedication to ufology has earned you a high
profile and reputation that will attract some individuals who
will try and take advantage of you for their own personal goals
or to promote their agendas. The wonderful work that you have
done on a 100 important UFO cases can quickly be forgotten with
your close association with a single fraudulant case. Good
reputations in ufology take much time to earn but very quick to
destroy.

>Also you mentioned I should talk to people in the scientific
>community to get answers, well I have had my experience with
>that. And as I mentioned before, they think most of us who do
>something in the UFO field are all crazy. I should know, I have
>read many a letters stating just that. BTW - This is approaching
>these types of people in a positive way, not just going off the
>wall. So are they help, not really. I get more out of a
>newspaper.

The high priests of science will say with absolute authority
that something just cannot be according to Science. But Science
itself is not absolute - it is constantly evolving! Just
continue to do what you do (but in a critical and cautious
manner) and with time you will be able to convert many of these
same scientists (but not all of them since much of what then
know is accepted by faith alone so it is no different than
religious beliefs).


I still have not changed my mind regarding the UK airshow and
New Westminster UFO videos either. These UFOs were clearly small
saucer shaped helium filled foil balloons like the ones you can
buy at a dollar store or gift shop. If anyone else can provide
any new evidence that will prove me wrong, I would be thrilled
to know about it. Unfortunately, the promoters of these two very
dubious UFO videos, including some individuals who have radio
shows or web sites that are visited by millions, don't really
care about any evidence from "armchair analysts" that show these
UFOs to be balloons.

As for your suggestion that I am a UFO "debunker", just go to
the Virtually Strange Network web site and read all my e-mails
which were posted on the UFO UpDates List that are archived
there. I think my e-mails speak for themselves and clearly
demonstrate my "real" motives (unless you also suspect that
Errol Bruce-Knapp is a CIA disinformation agent who works with
me, the debunker!).


Nick Balaskas







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   Sep > Sep 25

                          US Air Force Bases 1953?

From: Keith Chester <projectbluebook@erols.com>
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 14:37:54 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 10:24:43 -0400
Subject: US Air Force Bases 1953?


Hello List,

Does anyone have a listing of the Air Force Bases, the number of
personnel (active investigators), and any other relevant
information for the period of January through June during 1953?


Thanks,

Keith Chester







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             Re: Strange Lights & A Creature In Canada - Belzil

From: Fern Belzil <fbelzil@telusplanet.net>
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 19:57:22 -0600
Fwd Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 10:27:17 -0400
Subject: Re: Strange Lights & A Creature In Canada - Belzil


>From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO <hbccufo@telus.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 19:47:16 -0700
>Subject: Strange Lights & A Creature In Canada

<snip>

>The experience left one of the fellows in tears due to what he
>saw. Also I have been told, in the same community where this
>took place, many animals have gone missing. Some found with
>puncture marks on their lifeless bodies.

>Anyway, this is the short version and I will have the eyewitness
>accounts to all of this as soon as I gather the information.


Hi Brian

As you know I investigate animal mutilations, and have been to
80 plus cases here in Canada mostly in the Western provinces.

Do you have any photos of these creatures with punctures in their
lifeless bodies - as you put it? I would like to help you with
this, if I can.


Fern Belzil

St Paul
Alberta







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   Sep > Sep 25

                             4602 AISS Records?

From: Keith Chester <projectbluebook@erols.com>
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 23:19:17 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 10:30:02 -0400
Subject: 4602 AISS Records?


Hello List,

Has anyone conducted a detailed search of the 4602 hard copy
records at the National Archives?


Thanks,

Keith Chester






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                       Is Your Name On This FBI List?

From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 23:08:26 EDT
Fwd Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 10:28:53 -0400
Subject: Is Your Name On This FBI List?


http://foia.fbi.gov/famous.htm


Here's one for the FOIA files.

Just a list of released FOIA files from the FBI focusing on
famous persons.  Would be interesting to take a waltz through
them and see if any UFO info can be gleaned.


Greg






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               Re: World's First Alien Abductee Suffering Lung

From: Wendy Connors <FadedDiscs@comcast.net>
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 08:20:57 -0600
Fwd Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 10:37:48 -0400
Subject: Re: World's First Alien Abductee Suffering Lung


>From: Louise A. Lowry <ShnSassy1@aol.com>
>To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 17:42:25 -0500
>Subject: Re: World's First Alien Abductee Suffering Lung Cancer

>>From: Wendy Connors <FadedDiscs@comcast.net>
>>To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>>Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 11:06:55 -0600
>>Subject: Re: World's First Alien Abductee Suffering Lung Cancer

>>>From: Loren Coleman <lcoleman@maine.rr.com>
>>>To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>>>Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 06:57:34 -0400
>>>Subject: World's First Alien Abductee Suffering Lung Cancer


<snip>

Great information Louise, thank you. But, "Love & Light"?

Jeez... unless you come with batteries, bulb and an on/off
switch, it's a moot point.


Audinay Vasu Barracus (and all that junk),

Wendy Connors








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   Sep > Sep 25

                         Tribute To Graham & Gordon

From: Roy Hale - The Lost Haven <roy@thelosthaven.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 02:35:23 +0100
Fwd Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 10:33:35 -0400
Subject: Tribute To Graham & Gordon


Dear Friends,

As I mentioned in my previous mail, I have now uploaded my
tribute track Future Contact, to Graham Birdsall & Gordon
Creighton. The track features the vocals of Christopher Martin,
and it also appeared on one of his videos, but as Graham knew
Chris pretty well, I would hope that this track would be a great
way to say thank you for their dedication to ufology.

You can download the track at the following link:

http://www.thelosthaven.co.uk/UFOIndex.shtml

It is a 12.3MB file, so please wait for the download, it is a
high quality bit rate, so you lose nothing of the strings and
sounds which are in the track.

The link for the download is quite visible, just above the FSR
banner.

Remember the next time you are on a night watch, amongst that
great collection of brilliantly lit stars, will be these guys'
smiling down at us!

I hope you enjoy track.


Best,

Roy







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                         Tribute To Graham & Gordon

From: Roy Hale - The Lost Haven <roy@thelosthaven.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 02:35:23 +0100
Fwd Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 10:33:35 -0400
Subject: Tribute To Graham & Gordon


Dear Friends,

As I mentioned in my previous mail, I have now uploaded my
tribute track Future Contact, to Graham Birdsall & Gordon
Creighton. The track features the vocals of Christopher Martin,
and it also appeared on one of his videos, but as Graham knew
Chris pretty well, I would hope that this track would be a great
way to say thank you for their dedication to ufology.

You can download the track at the following link:

http://www.thelosthaven.co.uk/UFOIndex.shtml

It is a 12.3MB file, so please wait for the download, it is a
high quality bit rate, so you lose nothing of the strings and
sounds which are in the track.

The link for the download is quite visible, just above the FSR
banner.

Remember the next time you are on a night watch, amongst that
great collection of brilliantly lit stars, will be these guys'
smiling down at us!

I hope you enjoy track.


Best,

Roy







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              Re: Strange Lights & A Creature In Canada - Vike

From: Brian Vike <hbccufo@telus.net>
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 08:11:21 -0700
Fwd Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:46:39 -0400
Subject: Re: Strange Lights & A Creature In Canada - Vike


>From: Fern Belzil <fbelzil@telusplanet.net>
>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 19:57:22 -0600
>Subject: Re: Strange Lights & A Creature In Canada

>>From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO <hbccufo@telus.net>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>>Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 19:47:16 -0700
>>Subject: Strange Lights & A Creature In Canada

><snip>

>>The experience left one of the fellows in tears due to what he
>>saw. Also I have been told, in the same community where this
>>took place, many animals have gone missing. Some found with
>>puncture marks on their lifeless bodies.

>>Anyway, this is the short version and I will have the eyewitness
>>accounts to all of this as soon as I gather the information.

>As you know I investigate animal mutilations, and have been to
>80 plus cases here in Canada mostly in the Western provinces.

>Do you have any photos of these creatures with punctures in their
>lifeless bodies - as you put it? I would like to help you with
>this, if I can.


Hello Fern

Been a while since we last talked. Chris Rutkowsi at Ufology
Research of Manitoba is already hot on the trail of this case.
Right now I have pretty much left it in his hands as he was in a
good location to look into the report.

But Fern, there was another cattle mute out my way earlier this
year, but the man who owned the animal would not talk to anyone,
including me over what took place. The reason why he wouldn't
talk about it was due to a lot of bad press over an incident
which took place some years earlier. For him it was more
important to keep silent about it. Mind you some close friends
of his did know about the event. I was told by a friend, then
tried to contact the man about the animal in question and no way
would he return my call, or anything else for that matter.

So there has been two cattle mutes which have taken place close
to me and no one has wanted to come out and talk. Not even
privately to me. Everyone seems rather frightened to open their
mouths, I guess I can understand why they did not want to go
public or even discuss the event. I imagine their thoughts were
to get rid of the dead animal and say nothing. Saves a lot of
hassle. So I just left things were they were and no way did I
want to be a pest over trying to gather information.

There are some weird things happening up here at times.


Take care

Brian
HBCC UFO









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                          Secrecy News -- 09/25/03

From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood@fas.org>
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 10:56:26 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:48:57 -0400
Subject: Secrecy News -- 09/25/03


SECRECY NEWS
from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy
Volume 2003, Issue No. 80
September 25, 2003


**      CRS ON CONVENTIONAL ARMS TRANSFERS
**      STATE ADVISORY COMMITTEE ON FRUS
**      SOUTH AMERICAN INTELLIGENCE SERVICES
**      CONDOLEEZZA RICE SPEAKS ON BACKGROUND


CRS ON CONVENTIONAL ARMS TRANSFERS

The United States remains the world's largest vendor of arms to
developing nations, a new report from the Congressional Research
Service (CRS) confirmed this week.

The CRS report, "Conventional Arms Transfers to Developing
Nations, 1995-2002," by Richard F. Grimmett, is the latest
update of an annual publication that provides an unclassified
account of foreign arms sales.  The author has privileged access
to U.S. Government data that is not otherwise made available to
the public.

The CRS report itself is also not being made available to the
public, at least not by CRS.

"We work for the Congress," CRS officials like to say, as if to
explain why they will not respond to public requests for
information.

A copy of "Conventional Arms Transfers to Developing Nations,
1995-2002," dated September 23, is posted here:

http://www.fas.org/man/crs/RL32084.pdf


STATE ADVISORY COMMITTEE ON FRUS

The status of records declassification for the official State
Department historical publication "Foreign Relations of the
United States" (FRUS) was discussed by the Department's
Historical Advisory Committee in June 2003 meeting minutes
released this week.

The minutes are more suggestive than they are informative.  For
example, they note that most of the FRUS volumes from the
Johnson Administration have been published, except that Johnson
volumes on the Congo and Japan have not yet received clearance
for publication.  Why not?  They don't say.

Meanwhile, the CIA is becoming more assertive in imposing new
restrictions on the FRUS publication process.  "If another
agency declassified a document with CIA equity that the CIA
never had a chance to review, the Agency would like a chance to
review that document and consider re-classification," CIA
representatives told the Committee.

The officials from the CIA historical collections division are
quaintly identified by first name and last initial, as if they
were secret agents.

See the June 2003 meeting minutes here:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/advisory/state/hac0603.html


SOUTH AMERICAN INTELLIGENCE SERVICES

One of the first steps in subjecting intelligence and security
services to the discipline of democracy is being able to speak
and write about them freely and critically.  A small but growing
Spanish language literature on intelligence is doing just that.

One recent example is a comparative study of intelligence
services in Argentina, Brazil, Chile and Peru written by Chilean
author Carlos Maldonado Prieto of the Instituto de Cooperacion
para la Seguridad Hemisferica.

See his "Servicios de Inteligencia en Sudamerica. Estado de
situacion en una perspectiva comparada," June 2002 (in Spanish):

http://www.fas.org/irp/world/chile/maldonado.html


CONDOLEEZZA RICE SPEAKS ON BACKGROUND

The background briefing is an odd convention in which a
government official speaks to reporters on a not-for-attribution
basis.  The questionable premise seems to be that the official
will speak more freely and frankly if his or her identity is
concealed.

But at a background briefing with an unidentified "Senior
Administration Official" this week, a reporter addressed the
official as "Dr. Rice," and the White House faithfully included
the reference in the transcript of the briefing posted on the
White House web site.

See "Senior Administration Official Briefing," September 24:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/09/20030924-8.html


_______________________________________________
Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the
Federation of American Scientists.

To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to
secrecy_news-request@lists.fas.org
with "subscribe" in the body of the message.

OR email your request to saftergood@fas.org

Secrecy News is archived at:
http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html

_______________________
Steven Aftergood
Project on Government Secrecy
Federation of American Scientists
web:    www.fas.org/sgp/index.html
email:  saftergood@fas.org
voice:  (202) 454-4691






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                          I Had Sex With An Alien!

From: Eustaquio Andrea Patounas <socex@terra.com.br>
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:11:11 -0300
Fwd Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:56:55 -0400
Subject: I Had Sex With An Alien!


Source: Time Magazine

http://www.time.com/time/asia/magazine/article/0,13673,501030929-488900,00.html

September 29, 2003 / Vol. 162 No. 12

Asia

Close Encounters

I Had Sex with an Alien!
By Matthew Forney
Red Flag Logging Camp

Forget China's astronauts. The country's most famous
intergalactic traveler lives in the last house on his lane at
the edge of a Siberian forest. Meng Zhaoguo's odyssey began at
the Red Flag logging camp in the Manchurian province of
Heilongjiang, when he saw a metallic glint thrown off nearby
Mount Phoenix. Thinking a helicopter had crashed, he set out to
scavenge for scrap. The 36-year-old lumberjack stood gazing at
the wreck from across a valley when "Foom! Something hit me
square in the forehead and knocked me out."

That collision four years ago, and what followed, has made Meng
a celebrity even today among the growing number of Chinese gaga
for little green men. In a country that bans "evil cults" and
monitors faith in anything but the Communist Party, a belief in
extraterrestrial life is one of the few fringe convictions
that's been allowed to grow into an organized movement. The
government-approved China UFO Research Center boasted 50,000
members and held annual conferences before splintering into
competing factions three years ago. A 20-year-old Chinese
bimonthly magazine about UFOs enjoys a circulation of 200,000.
"We have so many visitation reports that if people don't have
pictures, we won't bother investigating," says Zhang Jingping,
director of the Beijing UFO Research Association.

Chinese fascination with interplanetary life isn't entirely new.
Believers point to a 4th century text called the Collected
Legacies, which describes a "moon boat" that floated above China
every 12 years. Today's focus is on the science of
UFOs_something tolerable to a Chinese Communist Party that
advocates "scientific socialism." It helps that heavy hitters
such as the former president of Beijing Aerospace University
have long advised UFO-research organizations. The hard-science
bent means it's acceptable to publish research on close-
encounter stories. It's not O.K., however, to wonder if such
stories result from people searching for higher meaning in the
hurly-burly of a changing China by turning to God, Buddha or
even E.T. "Chinese may feel a spiritual impulse that leads some
to believe they've been abducted by aliens," says Richard
McNally, a psychologist at Harvard University who has researched
Chinese alien-abduction claims.

Few have enjoyed as remarkable a journey as Meng. Several nights
after his wallop on the head, Meng says he found himself
floating above his bed. As his wife and daughter slept below, a
3-m-tall, six-fingered alien with braided fur on her legs
straddled his waist. After 40 minutes of levitational copulation
she departed through the wall, leaving Meng with a 5-cm mark on
his thigh. A month later, he says, he was transported through
the wall into a spaceship. Meng asked to see the woman with the
braided fur. Impossible, they said. But they gave him hope. "In
60 years, on a distant planet," they said, "the son of a Chinese
peasant will be born." Meng asked if he would ever see this
child. He would. The aliens did not say where.







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                 Re: Is Your Name On This FBI List? - Groff

From: Terry Groff <terry@terrygroff.com>
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 12:25:43 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:58:57 -0400
Subject: Re: Is Your Name On This FBI List? - Groff


>From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby@aol.com>
>To: ufoupdates@sympatico.ca
>Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 23:08:26 EDT
>Subject: Is Your Name On This FBI List?

>http://foia.fbi.gov/famous.htm

>Here's one for the FOIA files.

>Just a list of released FOIA files from the FBI focusing on
>famous persons.  Would be interesting to take a waltz through
>them and see if any UFO info can be gleaned.

Not specifically having to do with famous people but you might
find this page of interest if you aren't already familiar with
it:

http://foia.fbi.gov/ufo.htm

These are PDF files and will require the Adobe Acrobat Reader.


Terry

UFO Tools - http://terrygroff.com/ufotools/







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                   Re: Tribute To Graham & Gordon - Lowry

From: Louise A. Lowry <ShnSassy1@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:18:11 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:02:20 -0400
Subject: Re: Tribute To Graham & Gordon - Lowry


>From: Roy Hale - The Lost Haven <roy@thelosthaven.co.uk>
>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 02:35:23 +0100
>Subject: Tribute To Graham & Gordon

>As I mentioned in my previous mail, I have now uploaded my
>tribute track Future Contact, to Graham Birdsall & Gordon
>Creighton. The track features the vocals of Christopher Martin,
>and it also appeared on one of his videos, but as Graham knew
>Chris pretty well, I would hope that this track would be a great
>way to say thank you for their dedication to ufology.

>You can download the track at the following link:

>http://www.thelosthaven.co.uk/UFOIndex.shtml



Roy how beautiful this tribute was to Graham, thank you so much
for putting this together in tribute to this fine man he would
have loved it... and thank you for sharing it with all of
us.....

Love & Light
Louise

--
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http://www.worldofthestrange.com/modules.php?name=Forums
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               Re: World's First Alien Abductee Suffering Lung

From: Louise A. Lowry <ShnSassy1@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:26:35 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:05:52 -0400
Subject: Re: World's First Alien Abductee Suffering Lung


>From: Wendy Connors <FadedDiscs@comcast.net>
>To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 08:20:57 -0600
>Subject: Re: World's First Alien Abductee Suffering Lung Cancer

>>From: Louise A. Lowry <ShnSassy1@aol.com>
>>To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>>Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 17:42:25 -0500
>>Subject: Re: World's First Alien Abductee Suffering Lung Cancer

>>>From: Wendy Connors <FadedDiscs@comcast.net>
>>>To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>>>Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 11:06:55 -0600
>>>Subject: Re: World's First Alien Abductee Suffering Lung Cancer

>>>>From: Loren Coleman <lcoleman@maine.rr.com>
>>>>To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>>>>Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 06:57:34 -0400
>>>>Subject: World's First Alien Abductee Suffering Lung Cancer

><snip>

>Great information Louise, thank you. But, "Love & Light"?

>Jeez... unless you come with batteries, bulb and an on/off
>switch, it's a moot point.

Thank you Wendy if you haven't read the book on this very
interesting Abduction story it's called "The Tujunga Canyon
Contacts" by Ann Druffel and D. Scott Rogo, it may be hard to
find since it was printed in 1980, but you can borrow it from me
if you would like too, just send me a note (Privately) with your
snail mail and I will ship it off.....

As for me signing off Love & Light, I guess you don't see many
post from me, cause I _always_ sign off that was either L&L or
Love & Light. This is just something I have alwayed done. :)


Love & Light
Louise

--
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http://www.worldofthestrange.com/modules.php?name=Forums
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                 Re: World's First Alien Abductee - Andersen

From: Kathleen Andersen <KAnder6444@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:42:56 EDT
Fwd Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:08:50 -0400
Subject: Re: World's First Alien Abductee - Andersen


>From: Louise A. Lowry <ShnSassy1@aol.com>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 17:42:25 -0500
>Subject: Re: World's First Alien Abductee Suffering Lung Cancer

>In 1953 the canyons were even more unpopulated than they are
>today... but on March 22, 53 it changed these ladies lives
>forever... Sara Shaw and Jan Whitley, they were plagues with
>sightings, abductions and strange beings... that we have now.....

Ironically I got fascinated with the abduction scenerio from a
story I heard in 1977. It happened in a reunion of a nephew and
his aunt. These are relatives by the way and people who were
not subjected to nor educated in ufology. She used to babysit
him in the early 50s when he lived in Burbank (over the ridge
from TuJunga Canyon). She laughed about the stories he used to
tell about the "doctors" coming in the window at night. They
were grey and small. He was terrified. It was chalked up to a
"vivid imagination".

This person does not like to talk about abductions nor reads
about ufos. I think there is still a bit of horror left. He is,
however someone who will not go to sleep before 3am, must have
the tv on, curtains closed. He's now 54 and tends to be a bit on
the parnoid side when meeting new people. It's a case that has
never been written about other than in my own files.  Once in
the early 90s he said to me that he would like me to find him
the answer but did not want to look into it himself.

It makes me wonder how much more material is out there from
Southern California in the early 50s. Of course Burbank is the
home of Lockheed etc.


Kathleen Andersen
State Director - Washington State MUFON






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                   Re: Tribute To Graham & Gordon - Velez

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic@verizon.net>
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:59:52 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:18:59 -0400
Subject: Re: Tribute To Graham & Gordon - Velez


>From: Roy Hale - The Lost Haven <roy@thelosthaven.co.uk>
>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 02:35:23 +0100
>Subject: Tribute To Graham & Gordon

>As I mentioned in my previous mail, I have now uploaded my
>tribute track Future Contact, to Graham Birdsall & Gordon
>Creighton. The track features the vocals of Christopher Martin,
>and it also appeared on one of his videos, but as Graham knew
>Chris pretty well, I would hope that this track would be a great
>way to say thank you for their dedication to ufology.

>You can download the track at the following link:

>http://www.thelosthaven.co.uk/UFOIndex.shtml

>It is a 12.3MB file, so please wait for the download, it is a
>high quality bit rate, so you lose nothing of the strings and
>sounds which are in the track.

>The link for the download is quite visible, just above the FSR
>banner.

>Remember the next time you are on a night watch, amongst that
>great collection of brilliantly lit stars, will be these guys'
>smiling down at us!

>I hope you enjoy track.


Nicely done, Roy! Thank you for sharing it with us. A fitting
tribute.

Regards,

John Velez







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                         Tribute To Graham & Gordon

From: Roy Hale - The Lost Haven <roy@thelosthaven.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 02:35:23 +0100
Fwd Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 10:33:35 -0400
Subject: Tribute To Graham & Gordon


Dear Friends,

As I mentioned in my previous mail, I have now uploaded my
tribute track Future Contact, to Graham Birdsall & Gordon
Creighton. The track features the vocals of Christopher Martin,
and it also appeared on one of his videos, but as Graham knew
Chris pretty well, I would hope that this track would be a great
way to say thank you for their dedication to ufology.

You can download the track at the following link:

http://www.thelosthaven.co.uk/UFOIndex.shtml

It is a 12.3MB file, so please wait for the download, it is a
high quality bit rate, so you lose nothing of the strings and
sounds which are in the track.

The link for the download is quite visible, just above the FSR
banner.

Remember the next time you are on a night watch, amongst that
great collection of brilliantly lit stars, will be these guys'
smiling down at us!

I hope you enjoy track.


Best,

Roy







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                     Re: US Air Force Bases 1953? - Hall

From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 18:55:19 +0000
Fwd Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 17:50:06 -0400
Subject: Re: US Air Force Bases 1953? - Hall


>From: Keith Chester <projectbluebook@erols.com>
>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 14:37:54 -0400
>Subject: US Air Force Bases 1953?

>Hello List,

>Does anyone have a listing of the Air Force Bases, the number of
>personnel (active investigators), and any other relevant
>information for the period of January through June during 1953?


Keith,

For the bases try www.airforcebase.net/usaf/joeslist.html


- Dick Hall








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             Reich & UFOs [was: Is Your Name On This FBI List?]

From: David Rudiak <DRudiak@earthlink.net>
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 11:55:34 -0700
Fwd Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 17:53:14 -0400
Subject: Reich & UFOs [was: Is Your Name On This FBI List?]


>From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby@aol.com>
>To: ufoupdates@sympatico.ca
>Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 23:08:26 EDT
>Subject: Is Your Name On This FBI List?

>http://foia.fbi.gov/famous.htm

>Here's one for the FOIA files.

>Just a list of released FOIA files from the FBI focusing on
>famous persons. Would be interesting to take a waltz through
>them and see if any UFO info can be gleaned.

Try the Dr. Wilhelm Reich file. Recently it was mentioned here
on Updates that Reich was interested in UFOs, had written a book
called "First Contact with Space," and had visited Roswell in
1955 looking for more information on the aliens.

I'm still looking through the FBI Reich file, but you can find
excerpts from the "First Contact with Space" at:

http://foia.fbi.gov/reich/reich5c.pdf

This was in an appeal filed with the U.S. Supreme Court
concerning his conviction for medical fraud (cancer cure using
orgone therapy). Pages 23-26 of this pdf file detail Reich's
account of his first accidental contact with UFOs while testing
his orgone "cloud buster" on May 12, 1954. Pages 30-35 discuss a
deliberate attempt to achieve contact a second time on Oct. 10,
1954. Reich claimed it was successful. He adds this was
dutifully reported to the Air Technical Intelligence Center at
Wright-Patterson on Oct. 14, 1954. Pages 51 and 57 have some
additional references to these contacts.

Reich apparently felt that Earth was undergoing some sort of
invasion and part of the reason he was being attacked by the
government was because his orgone research was initimately
connected with the UFO question.


David Rudiak





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                 Latest Ad Submission For Publication In The

From: Larry W. Bryant <overtci@cavtel.net>
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:58:38 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 17:55:30 -0400
Subject: Latest Ad Submission For Publication In The


To: drumburg@gazette.net


TO:    Ms. Donna Rumburg
       Classified Ads Dept. - Comprint Military Publications
       Gaithersburg, MD

FROM:  Larry W. Bryant
       3518 Martha Custis Drive
       Alexandria, VA  22302

DATE:  September 25, 2003

Referring to my Sept. 12, 2003, e-letter to you (by which I seek
a price estimate for the Pentagram-running of my ad "Blow the
Whistle on Carlisle's Illegal Censorship!" -- see text below), I
note that your usually swift response to such submissions has
failed to occur.

Does the delay mean you've yet to relay the ad's content to Fort
Myer, Va., officials for their prepublication review?  Assuming
you've already completed that relay, and that you've received
from them some sort of objection to the ad's content, I now ask
that you identify for me the Myer public affairs point-of-
contact with whom I can attempt to resolve the impasse.

Otherwise, this Army obstacle in the militarycorruption.com's
path to redress-of-grievance can only prolong and exacerbate the
First Amendment violation cited by the ad.  Indeed, in view of
your own company's freedom-of-the-press sensibilities, this
highly ironic, negative outcome jeopardizes, at least
indirectly, the Gazette Newspapers' stake in having it
challenged and overturned.  Accordingly, you might wish to
provide a copy of this letter to your company's general counsel.

Thank you for whatever effort you can apply toward helping me
promptly resolve this issue.


Larry W. Bryant

Text Of My Latest Ad Submission:

Blow the Whistle on Carlisle's Illegal Censorship!

Officials at U. S. Army Carlisle Barracks, Pa., have imposed a bar to
its personnel's accessing the website of

http://www.militarycorruption.com

You can protest (and help remedy) their crass censorship of this
information resource vital to Army efficacy, integrity, and
accountability -- by asking your Congress members to convene a
GAO investigation into how/where/why those officials now are
lobbying for an Army-wide extension of their censorship.  Please
share your replies and "insider" tips with me at: Larry W.
Bryant (703-931-3341; e-mail:  overtci@cavtel.net ).










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                      Re: 4602 AISS Records? - Speiser

From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com>
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 12:03:38 -0700
Fwd Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 17:57:14 -0400
Subject: Re: 4602 AISS Records? - Speiser


>From: Keith Chester <projectbluebook@erols.com>
>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 23:19:17 -0400
>Subject: 4602 AISS Records?

>Hello List,

>Has anyone conducted a detailed search of the 4602 hard copy
>records at the National Archives?

I believe that's among the things Peter Gersten and I researched
at the Maryland facility many years ago (1987). I'm trying to
remember the record group number we researched, I believe it was
a three-digit number beginning with "5", and I think I remember
him asking me to look for anything on the 4602nd...I don't
remember finding anything of value, however.


==JJS==







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                  Re: World's First Alien Abductee - Lowry

From: Louise A. Lowry <ShnSassy1@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:39:49 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 07:37:01 -0400
Subject: Re: World's First Alien Abductee - Lowry


>From: Kathleen Andersen <KAnder6444@aol.com>
>To: ufoupdates@sympatico.ca
>Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:42:56 EDT
>Subject: Re: World's First Alien Abductee

>>From: Louise A. Lowry <ShnSassy1@aol.com>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 17:42:25 -0500
>>Subject: Re: World's First Alien Abductee Suffering Lung Cancer

>Once in
>the early 90s he said to me that he would like me to find him
>the answer but did not want to look into it himself.

>It makes me wonder how much more material is out there from
>Southern California in the early 50s. Of course Burbank is the
>home of Lockheed etc.

Kathleen,

This story in away sound just like what these ladies went
though, they at first wanted nothing to do with it or to hear
about UFOs/Aliens, they tried to run away, and we all know that
doesn't work at all..... When they were taken they talked about
'others' in the craft.....

I wonder, and it's just a thought, if this guy was on the craft
at the same time? That would be strange huh?

They really didn't want to talk about the experience or want to
believe this happened, but there was a lot that they didn't
know. They would say they saw bright lights and pulled their
car over, and the next thing they were waking up... with maybe 3
to 4 hours gone. They knew nothing of those hours until the
regression.

This guy would have to also do this to find out the information.

Do you know if he had other experiences? Or was it just the one?


Love & Light

Louise
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                   Press Update On Carlisle Barracks SNAFU

From: Larry W. Bryant <overtci@cavtel.net>
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 18:51:42 -0400 (EDT)
Fwd Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 07:39:49 -0400
Subject: Press Update On Carlisle Barracks SNAFU


"When one fights for a noble cause, (s)he must accept that the
ensuing battle will tend to spark ignobleness amongst her/his
detractors." -- Larry W. Bryant (Sept. 25, 2003)

This just in: for an update on the U. S. Army Carlisle
Barracks' censorship of its personnel's access to the website:

http://www.militarycorruption.com

see the following story published in the Harrisburg, Pa.,
Patriot-News for Sept. 25, 2003:

http://www.pennlive.com/news/patriotnews/index.ssf?/xml/story.ssf/html_standard.
xsl?/base/news/1064496611168830.xml

Meanwhile, I'm still awaiting a response from Carlisle's FOIA
manager to my FOIA request of Sept. 8, 2003 -- seeking all
records pertaining to this sinful cybersaga.

Stay tuned.






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   Sep > Sep 26

                Re: Is Your Name On This FBI List? - Speiser

From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com>
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 16:49:38 -0700
Fwd Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 07:41:11 -0400
Subject: Re: Is Your Name On This FBI List? - Speiser


>From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby@aol.com>
>To: ufoupdates@sympatico.ca
>Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 23:08:26 EDT
>Subject: Is Your Name On This FBI List?

>http://foia.fbi.gov/famous.htm

>Here's one for the FOIA files.

>Just a list of released FOIA files from the FBI focusing on
>famous persons.  Would be interesting to take a waltz through
>them and see if any UFO info can be gleaned.

Not a very comprehensive list... it doesn't even have a listing
for Stan Friedman or Dick Hall!


==JJS==








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   Sep > Sep 26

                      Re: 4602 AISS Records? - Speiser

From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com>
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 17:02:59 -0700
Fwd Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 07:42:34 -0400
Subject: Re: 4602 AISS Records? - Speiser


>From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com>
>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 12:03:38 -0700
>Subject: Re: 4602 AISS Records?

>>From: Keith Chester <projectbluebook@erols.com>
>>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 23:19:17 -0400
>>Subject: 4602 AISS Records?

>>Has anyone conducted a detailed search of the 4602 hard copy
>>records at the National Archives?

>I believe that's among the things Peter Gersten and I researched
>at the Maryland facility many years ago (1987). I'm trying to
>remember the record group number we researched, I believe it was
>a three-digit number beginning with "5", and I think I remember
>him asking me to look for anything on the 4602nd...I don't
>remember finding anything of value, however.


I take it back, we were researching RG 541, which covered a
period prior to 1950.  This would have predated the 4602nd,
would it not?

==JJS==







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               CIA Claims Its Crank Mail Procedures Are Secret

From: Larry W. Bryant <overtci@cavtel.net>
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 21:47:01 -0400 (EDT)
Fwd Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 07:47:10 -0400
Subject: CIA Claims Its Crank Mail Procedures Are Secret


From: Michael Ravnitzky <mikerav@mindspring.com>
To: FOI-L@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU
Date: Thu, September 25, 2003 9:28 pm
Subject: [FOI-L] CIA Claims Its Crank Mail Procedures are Secret


CIA Claims Its Crank Mail Procedures Are Secret
by Michael Ravnitzky
mikerav@mindspring.com

The Central Intelligence Agency has determined this week that
its document described as Procedures for Handling So-Called
"Crank Mail" must remain classified because its release would
cause harm to national security.

The agency determined in an initial declassification review that
not even the title page could be made public for reasons of
national security.

It has long been the practice of many government agencies to
establish procedures for dealing with the occasional crank
letter; the apparent propensity of cranks to contact the CIA
necessitates a somewhat more urgent need for this type of
guidance document.

If you would like to ask the CIA for a copy of this document,
and to reconsider their decision to withhold it in full, you can
write to the agency at:

Central Intelligence Agency
Robert T. Herman
FOIA and Privacy Coordinator
Washington, D.C. 20505
telephone number: (703) 613-1287







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                            Beyond UFO Abductions

From: Eustaquio Andrea Patounas <socex@terra.com.br>
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 23:11:31 -0300
Fwd Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 07:50:19 -0400
Subject: Beyond UFO Abductions


Source: Llewellyn Journal, Minnesota

http://www.llewellynjournal.com/article/530

Date: 2003-09-25

Beyond UFO Abductions
By Preston Dennett

The UFO phenomenon is extraordinarily complex, however the main
focus is undeniably face-to-face encounters or the onboard UFO
experience. Still, when people think of these types of close
encounters, they often assume that the experience is a
terrifying event during which the unwilling victim is laid out
on a table and examined by emotionless gray-type ETs. While I
believe these types of encounters do happen, this is only a
small part of the UFO experience. In reality, people experience
a much wider variety of encounters. Contrary to popular opinion,
onboard UFO experiences are not always involuntary and
terrifying. Many people experience encounters during which they
are actually helped or healed. There seems to be multiple
reasons why people are contacted by aliens.

My latest book, Extraterrestrial Visitations: True Accounts of
Contact (Llewellyn, 2002) focuses only on those types of
encounters which involve considerable interaction between the
witnesses and the UFO. Each case involves either a face-to-face
encounter, missing time or an onboard experience. Although these
cases are among the most extensive I have ever investigated, at
least half of them are not typical and move beyond the standard
abduction scenario.

Rescued by Aliens
The following case is a perfect example. Sherry Jamison
(pseudonym) worked first as a real-estate agent, then later
returned to school, earned a degree and became a licensed
therapist. She has been married for many years and has a full-
grown child. She is both humble and dignified, with a quick wit
and a positive outlook on life. Looking at her, you would never
guess that she has had many bizarre experiences with
extraterrestrials.

Sherry?s first experience occurred when she was only eight. She
lived with her parents in rural New Jersey. One night in the
early 1950s, Sherry awoke to find herself outside her home,
standing in a nearby field. She had no idea how she got there,
but looking up, she saw a small, metallic, saucer-shaped craft
hovering above her. It instantly swooped down and sent down a
beam of light directly on her. Says Sherry, "The craft was into
a very big craft?but what happened was, it put its light on me.
I remember running along the fence, trying to get away from
it?.I remember running along the fence, and this craft was
chasing me. I was trying to duck down and this craft was chasing
me....I was running and falling, running and falling."

The next thing Sherry realized, the craft had struck her with a
beam of light and she was lifted aboard. "It was like a
flashlight. It was a very strong beam because I went right up
into the craft. My sensation of fear left me. I was so afraid
when it was chasing me."

At that point, Sherry remembered nothing but waking up the next
morning. At first she thought it had been a strange dream, but
she realized that she had a different outfit on then when she
went to bed, and her clothes were inexplicably dirty. Whatever
had happened, it wasn?t a dream.

As she grew up, Sherry began to have bizarre nighttime
experiences, half-remembered dreams and recollections of grey-
type aliens standing around her bed. She began to awaken with
unusual marks and scars on he body. Over a period of years, she
slowly began to connect her experiences, and wondered if she was
one of those people labeled as UFO contactees.

Of course, this was no sudden revelation. She knew something
strange was going on, but extraterrestrials? It seemed too
outlandish to even consider.

Then in the 1960s, Sherry experienced an event which left no
doubt in her mind that she was in contact with
extraterrestrials. It remains one of the strangest encounters I
have ever investigated.

Sherry was driving alone in the middle of the night through the
Watchung Mountains of New Jersey when she lost control of her
motorcycle and crashed. Because it was so late at night and the
road was totally isolated, there was no traffic at all. Sherry
was totally alone.

Or so she thought.

Moments after the accident, Sherry was startled to see three
strange figures. She instantly recognized them as the figures
she had seen before, in her bedroom at night. Says Sherry, "When
I was driving on a motorcycle once in the mountains, I had an
experience -- these same people appeared to me. They were like
greys, more detailed, more white, not quite human. I would say
like a body suit on a human figure, a white body suit, not a
grey one, but maybe an off-white or a beige-grey.

"I was riding a bike and I slid my bike. I had bent the kick-
stand when I did. I didn?t hurt myself, but I had bent the kick-
stand, and I couldn?t move [it] to get the bike started. It was
very dark. I didn?t see a mother ship or anything. But again, I
call them aliens only now. I always didn?t know what to call
them. They were just my friends. There were two of them. They
looked at me and silently picked up my motorcycle, took the bar
and straightened it out into a kick-stand again. I nodded and
kicked it. It was just like, okay. I kicked it; we didn?t have
electric starters at that time. I kicked the motorcycle over and
off I went."

Sherry was astonished by the event. She was already shaken up
from the accident, but the appearance of the figures took her
totally by surprise. Says Sherry, "They were both right there.
They were about a foot and a half away. One looked at me. They
both looked at the one doing it. They were both like "greys"
look, without clothes. They didn?t have any attire on or
anything on. They looked like greys except they were more human-
proportioned. Except they did have the dark eyes, but not as
almond-shaped as that. It was the only think dark that appeared
on them.

"And I wish now I could have not been so worried and disturbed,
or that I could have paid more attention. But they weren?t
threatening. They just kind of nodded and went on their
way?.they looked almost luminous. So it was kind of strange. It
was very strange."

Although that was Sherry?s most intense face-to-face encounter,
she continued to have a number of other close-up sightings of
metallic craft.

Sherry?s case is difficult to classify. Although she did
experience an apparent missing-time abduction, she has also had
an undeniably positive encounter. She has no desire to be
hypnotized, and is content to call the aliens her "friends."

It took Sherry a long time to conclude that she was having
encounters with aliens because the figures looked almost human,
the only real difference being that their eyes were larger and
darker than humans. Sherry is only one person of many who have
moved beyond abductions.

Invited Aboard and Healed
In 1995, retired couple William and Rose Shelhart experienced a
missing time encounter with a UFO outside of Sedona, Arizona. As
they drove along an isolated road, they saw a light following
them. It appeared first ahead of behind them, as if playing a
game of hide and seek. Suddenly, the light zoomed down out of
the sky and landed into a field next to their car. The couple
promptly lost consciousness. Their next memory was of stumbling
into a hotel hours later.

Realizing they had experienced missing time, they underwent
hypnosis during which they recalled that they weren?t abducted,
but were invited onboard. Says Rose, "We weren?t kidnapped or
abducted. We voluntarily boarded and we were welcome. We sought
them out and we climbed aboard, not being abducted as ?in
force.?

Rose was surprised at the appearance of the ETs. As she says,
"They looked a lot more like people than some of those sketches
do. A lot more. Their eyes were a little larger than any white
person?s big eyes would be, but they were just not enormous.
They looked like they could pass for us if they wished. And they
glowed with a blue aura which made me feel reassured, kind of on
a mental level, that they were peaceful."

Rose was also surprised by their clothing. "Something like a
military outfit, but not anything I have ever seen, and I?ve
been in Europe and here and so forth. But it would resemble that
because they were all alike, but more loose-fitting, but with
belt. Uniforms, but it looked structured more like, ?I mean
business.?

Another surprise was the lack of technological equipment on
board. "Oh, there were all kinds of lights, but very few actual
gizmos like we have on any aircraft here. [It was] like they
didn?t need them. It didn?t look like they needed too many
things. It?s like they almost had mind control to get the thing
going. But there were little lights, I guess for monitors and
things."

Rose recalled other details regarding the ETs place of origin
and their intentions on Earth. William, however, was not a good
hypnotic subject and was unable to recall anything other than
the craft landing and them being invited onboard.

William had experienced an earlier terrifying episode with
missing time, so he was somewhat relieved that their encounter
turned out to be benevolent.

Later, William and Rose had another encounter in their isolated
home in Hawaii, which confirmed for them that the ETs were
interested in their welfare. His first clue occurred upon waking
up one morning and finding a strange mark on his body. Says
William, "I woke one morning and I felt an itch on my right foot
and discovered three puncture wounds in a perfect triangle. They
were in the process of scabbing over. I sleep on a waterbed, so
nothing could have scratched it. My wife was the only witness. I
felt something itching on my right ankle, and that?s when I
looked. Because there?s no way possible in the night I could
have done this, and that?s when it happened."

William was concerned by the marks because it was obvious that
they were not natural. But what could they be?

The answer came about two weeks later when the same incident
occurred again, only this time William was awakened by an
unexplained bright beam of light entering into his bedroom. Says
William, "I woke in the middle of the night with a bright light
coming in the back window. It lasted about thirty to sixty
seconds. I froze and could not get out of bed to look outside.
My backyard is a jungle of coconut trees and plants. As I live
in the country, no car could get there in that time. When the
light came in the back window, it was just as bright as could
be. I couldn?t believe it, and there?s nothing in the back.
There?s no way a car could have gotten in there. I mean, that?s
what it looked like -- somebody?s headlight shining right into
the window. I remember waking up and seeing that. This was just
kind of shocking thing."

William?s first instinct was to get up and investigate.
Strangely, however, he found himself paralyzed. Seconds later,
he felt himself being put to sleep. When morning came and he
awoke, he immediately remembered the incident that had occurred
in the middle of the night. He could only shake his head in
wonder. Then he looked down to his right arm and received an
incredible shock. Says William, "My right wrist was itching. The
same thing happened -- three puncture wounds in a perfect
triangle?I woke up and found those triangular pin-pricks on my
right hand. And this was the hand I used when I carried mail.
This was in constant use. And they were very fresh, because you
could still see, they had just about scabbed over. I showed them
to my wife immediately. I said, ?My God! Look at this thing.
It?s perfect. It?s a perfect triangle."

William had worked for years as a postal worker and had
developed severe carpel-tunnel syndrome in his right wrist, as
well as permanent damage in his left ankle. However, immediately
following the two above incidents, he noticed a dramatic
improvement in his health. "I went and got myself a hot tub. I
didn?t everything I could to take some of that pain away. And it
wasn?t until after my incident that things started to get
better. I just know that I progressed and started to get better.
Since thin, I have been 90 percent cured?.I am almost sixty-
seven years old and I can hang off a twenty-foot ladder placing
the weight on my right foot and paint with my right hand, day
after day. I really don?t care if people doubt my explanation. I
know what I feel."

William and Rose are the perfect example of people who have
moved beyond the typical abduction scenario. Not only were they
healed, but they have now become healers themselves. This
pattern has turned up in other cases. Says Rose, "Both of us
have become more and more interested in helping people in
alternative healing ways. Even William, he has this energy in
his hands that he didn?t have before?.now it?s like I feel this
heat coming out that?s really good. And people say they feel it
out of me too. And I say, ?Oh, where did I get this from.? I
have a lot of good result stories from the neighborhood. But I?m
grateful, because I think it [the UFO connection] has a lot to
do with it."

Six Hours Onboard a UFO
In 1972, when he was 12 years old, Jack Stephens was abducted
from his vehicle in full view of his mother and brother. He was
lifted up inside a beam of light and taken inside an enormous
craft the size of a small building. He experienced a six-hour-
long encounter aboard the UFO before being deposited back into
the car.

The stunned family drove home, with most of the event shrouded
in amnesia. They recalled only a powerful light hitting the car,
the engine turning off and a slight floating sensation. Their
next memory was the light turning off, the car engine turning on
and six hours had passed. It was a typical missing time
encounter.

Years later, as an adult, Jack bit down on an impacted wisdom
tooth. This caused a flood of memories to burst forth. Jack
suddenly recalled everything that happened.

In most respects, Jack experienced the typical abduction
scenario. He recalled being taken aboard onto the craft. He was
laid out on a table and examined. They poked at his feet, probed
inside his mouth. Jack is unable to recall the appearance of the
beings, only that they were short and incredibly scary-looking.

It?s what happened next, however, that makes Jack?s account
unique in UFO literature.

Investigators? have long noticed that UFOs often hover over
electric power lines, as if they were drawing electricity into
their craft. Jack is the first abductee to witness this exact
procedure from the perspective of inside the ET craft.

After the examination, Jack was floated off the table and into
another room. The beings then placed him in a strange device
which allowed him to view the procedure. Says Jack, "We went
straight up above the fog. I could look out. The next thing, I
was down in this thing. It was like a little clear diamond-thing
on the bottom of [the craft.] I?m in this thing and there are
like bungee cords on me. I sat in this clear diamond-shape --
 actually suspended, it almost felt like bungee cords, but I
could see everything around. I got a 360-degree view. I could
look everywhere. We drop back down and we?re by my farm. We?re
literally down in the pasture above this ditch. And there are
some big high voltage power lines, heavy-duty power lines
through there. You can just feel the electricity coming off.

"Well as we dropped down to this thing, whatever the clear thing
I was in, in the bottom, kind of got smaller. It was kind of
like more of a confined space. It seemed wide open to me before,
and yet I was enclosed, in kind of like plastic or glass."

Jack was in awe. It felt like he was dangling below the craft
with a perfect view of everything around. The room he was in
seemed to design specifically for observation. In fact, the
whole room would swivel towards whatever direction he looked.
"In places it didn?t move at all, like if I just wanted to look
one way, it just stayed there. But if I turned, it would move
all over. But if I just stopped and looked one way, it would
stop and look one way."

At this point, the procedure began. "[They] were explaining to
me what they were doing. I don?t know what it was, but we went
up to the power lines. And after we got back down, that little
thing I was in seemed to kind of shrink up inside. [There were]
four rotating things on each side of this thing -- the diamond
or triangle or whatever it was -- there were four lights that
started spinning around. And I could see them from where I
was?.And I saw all those beams suck all together, come into one
big beam and hit the power pole, sucking the electricity out of
it. And these were like, I mean, LIGHTS! They all focused into
one and they started sucking electricity out of the power poles.
I can?t describe it but I could literally feel it going through
my body.

"I remember being cold. That?s when they sucked up the
electricity. That is the most vivid part of the whole thing. We
were up above it, a telephone pole, maybe two telephone pole
lengths above it. And all those lights focusing into one super
bright light -- just pshew! Just literally seeing the
electricity coming out of there, and feeling it. It was just
like it drained everything, just took it all.

"Another thing, when I was up in that thing, we were above the
fog, just kind of floating above this fog. And when they went to
go suck the electricity out of the power lines, that fog just
got out of the way. It just opened wide up, just shew! -- got
out of the way, and I could see crystal clear.

"Another thing, I remember my teeth kind of hurting when it was
sucking that stuff up. Just like when you're chewing on aluminum
foil. I remember feeling like, ?Hurry up, get this thing over
with.?"

While Jack recalls several other events, it was the above
incident which remains the most memorable. As can be seen, the
aliens seem to have intentions beyond just an abduction and
physical examination.

Taken to an Underground Base

The standard abduction scenario usually involves a person being
taken inside a UFO and examined by grey-type extraterrestrials.
But again, this scenario is not as common as many might believe.
Consider the following case, in which a young man was abducted,
not by grey-type ETs, but by praying-mantis-type ETs. Nor was he
taken inside a UFO. In fact, he recalled being taken to an
apparent underground base!

In 1967, twelve-year-old, Paul Nelson (pseudonym) was visiting
the island of Catalina with his parents. Also along was Paul?s
best friend, Michael (pseudonym.) The two boys decided to go
inside their boat and read some new comic books. Suddenly,
however, they both experienced an episode of missing time. Their
next memory was of waking up the next morning. While Paul was
unable to convince his parents that anything unusual had
happened, both Paul and his friend knew that the event was
strange.

Two weeks later, Paul was alone in his Reseda, California home
when he had another strange experience. He was alone in his room
when the door began to rattle. He jumped up and threw it open.
To his shock, he saw the shadow of a small figure running down
the hallway. He chased after it, but found nothing.

Paul didn?t know how to explain these experiences and didn?t
connect it to the UFO phenomenon. However, afterwards he
developed an interest in UFOs and began to read up on the
subject.

Many years later, he grew up, married, became a doctor and had
two children. Then he had a UFO sighting of a distant object in
the daytime sky. This renewed his interest in UFOs. He began
reading about the missing time aspect of UFO encounters when he
realized that he had experienced missing time.

Intrigued, he eventually underwent hypnosis to recover his lost
memories. Having read about UFOs, he expected to find that he
had a frightening encounter, during which he would be examined
by grey-type ETs, aboard a UFO using highly technological
equipment. Instead, it was nothing like this.

As Paul underwent the regression, his first surprise was that he
was not aboard a UFO, but instead appeared to be in an
underground base. Says Paul, "I was taken to a round-walled
room. It seemed to me more underground than it did onboard a
ship. The walls had kind of rock-like facet to them. And I was
on a table?Yeah, rock-like walls rather than metallic craft-type
walls. It gave the impression that I was in a cavern [rather]
than in a ship?It was more of an underground feeling that?s
true. That is a little anomalous."

Under hypnosis, Paul recalled his friend, Michael nearby, also
being examined. His next surprise was that the beings were what
he expected. Says Paul, "The beings weren?t the typical greys,
they were more the ?Praying Mantis? type, as I later understood.
The eyes were slightly bigger than what is seen in the typical
small grey, and a little more insectoid-like?They wore tight-
fitting uniforms, I believe. There was even a color to them, but
I can?t remember what the color was?tight-fitting jump-suit like
things. I think there was one in that bunch that had a tunic-
type thing, more looser fitting over it. I couldn?t tell how
tall they were because they were over me and I was on my back.
So I couldn?t give you the exact height. They didn?t look
particularly tall though."

Yet another surprise was the type of machinery in the room.
Having read a good deal about UFOs, Paul expected again to see
complex equipment. Instead, it all seemed amazingly primitive.
Says Paul, "The machines looked like typical military-type
computer consoles rather than alien-looking machines. There were
lights and buttons. Well, I don?t know if they were buttons, but
areas that seemed to be for pushing. Colored lights -- I can?t
remember what color off the top of my head."

Paul recalled a very short examination, but otherwise, nothing
frightening happened. Never did he feel any fear. "I don?t
remember being particularly scared about the whole thing. In
fact, I was a little intrigued by it. I don?t remember anything
painful occurring."

Conclusions

As the above cases show us, it can be extremely difficult to
categorize a UFO experience. While there are definite patterns,
encounters are as individual as the people who have them.
Witnesses, as a rule, experience a wide variety of events beyond
the abduction and examination. I am currently working with
several people whose experiences with ETs are typically
atypical. One case involves a southern California woman who has
had multiple encounters with grey-type ETs. She has several
witnesses and physical evidence to support the veracity of her
encounters, which have moved beyond the standard missing-time
abductions and examinations and evolved into fully-conscious
encounters during which she has been healed of various ailments,
has been taught how to heal, and has been given other spiritual
information. She reports that the greys are very loving and
emotional. Another case involves a lady who has had multiple
encounters with praying-mantis-type aliens. Her encounters have
not been benevolent; her health has suffered as a result.
However, on a few occasions, the aliens told her extremely
personal information which proved conclusively to her that they
were very concerned with her life. They not only showed that
they had been watching her during her entire childhood, but they
also gave her a series of predictions, several of which have
already come true. Some of the information was so personal, that
the witness refused to even discuss it.

While abductions and examinations appear to be the single most
common factor, there are a vast number of experiences beyond
this. Again, the conclusion is inescapable that
extraterrestrials have a deep in humanity. Why else would they
take the time to fix someone?s motorcycle, heal someone of
carpel-tunnel syndrome or dangle somebody below their craft and
show how they siphon electricity from power lines?







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   Sep > Sep 26

                           'Beyond UFO Abductions'

From: Eustaquio Andrea Patounas <socex@terra.com.br>
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 23:11:31 -0300
Fwd Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 08:06:35 -0400
Subject: 'Beyond UFO Abductions'


Source: Llewellyn Journal, Minnesota

http://www.llewellynjournal.com/article/530

Date: 2003-09-25
By Preston Dennett

The UFO phenomenon is extraordinarily complex, however the main
focus is undeniably face-to-face encounters or the onboard UFO
experience. Still, when people think of these types of close
encounters, they often assume that the experience is a
terrifying event during which the unwilling victim is laid out
on a table and examined by emotionless gray-type ETs. While I
believe these types of encounters do happen, this is only a
small part of the UFO experience. In reality, people experience
a much wider variety of encounters. Contrary to popular opinion,
onboard UFO experiences are not always involuntary and
terrifying. Many people experience encounters during which they
are actually helped or healed. There seems to be multiple
reasons why people are contacted by aliens.

My latest book, Extraterrestrial Visitations: True Accounts of
Contact (Llewellyn, 2002) focuses only on those types of
encounters which involve considerable interaction between the
witnesses and the UFO. Each case involves either a face-to-face
encounter, missing time or an onboard experience. Although these
cases are among the most extensive I have ever investigated, at
least half of them are not typical and move beyond the standard
abduction scenario.

Rescued by Aliens
The following case is a perfect example. Sherry Jamison
(pseudonym) worked first as a real-estate agent, then later
returned to school, earned a degree and became a licensed
therapist. She has been married for many years and has a full-
grown child. She is both humble and dignified, with a quick wit
and a positive outlook on life. Looking at her, you would never
guess that she has had many bizarre experiences with
extraterrestrials.

Sherry?s first experience occurred when she was only eight. She
lived with her parents in rural New Jersey. One night in the
early 1950s, Sherry awoke to find herself outside her home,
standing in a nearby field. She had no idea how she got there,
but looking up, she saw a small, metallic, saucer-shaped craft
hovering above her. It instantly swooped down and sent down a
beam of light directly on her. Says Sherry, "The craft was into
a very big craft?but what happened was, it put its light on me.
I remember running along the fence, trying to get away from
it?.I remember running along the fence, and this craft was
chasing me. I was trying to duck down and this craft was chasing
me....I was running and falling, running and falling."

The next thing Sherry realized, the craft had struck her with a
beam of light and she was lifted aboard. "It was like a
flashlight. It was a very strong beam because I went right up
into the craft. My sensation of fear left me. I was so afraid
when it was chasing me."

At that point, Sherry remembered nothing but waking up the next
morning. At first she thought it had been a strange dream, but
she realized that she had a different outfit on then when she
went to bed, and her clothes were inexplicably dirty. Whatever
had happened, it wasn?t a dream.

As she grew up, Sherry began to have bizarre nighttime
experiences, half-remembered dreams and recollections of grey-
type aliens standing around her bed. She began to awaken with
unusual marks and scars on he body. Over a period of years, she
slowly began to connect her experiences, and wondered if she was
one of those people labeled as UFO contactees.

Of course, this was no sudden revelation. She knew something
strange was going on, but extraterrestrials? It seemed too
outlandish to even consider.

Then in the 1960s, Sherry experienced an event which left no
doubt in her mind that she was in contact with
extraterrestrials. It remains one of the strangest encounters I
have ever investigated.

Sherry was driving alone in the middle of the night through the
Watchung Mountains of New Jersey when she lost control of her
motorcycle and crashed. Because it was so late at night and the
road was totally isolated, there was no traffic at all. Sherry
was totally alone.

Or so she thought.

Moments after the accident, Sherry was startled to see three
strange figures. She instantly recognized them as the figures
she had seen before, in her bedroom at night. Says Sherry, "When
I was driving on a motorcycle once in the mountains, I had an
experience -- these same people appeared to me. They were like
greys, more detailed, more white, not quite human. I would say
like a body suit on a human figure, a white body suit, not a
grey one, but maybe an off-white or a beige-grey.

"I was riding a bike and I slid my bike. I had bent the kick-
stand when I did. I didn?t hurt myself, but I had bent the kick-
stand, and I couldn?t move [it] to get the bike started. It was
very dark. I didn?t see a mother ship or anything. But again, I
call them aliens only now. I always didn?t know what to call
them. They were just my friends. There were two of them. They
looked at me and silently picked up my motorcycle, took the bar
and straightened it out into a kick-stand again. I nodded and
kicked it. It was just like, okay. I kicked it; we didn?t have
electric starters at that time. I kicked the motorcycle over and
off I went."

Sherry was astonished by the event. She was already shaken up
from the accident, but the appearance of the figures took her
totally by surprise. Says Sherry, "They were both right there.
They were about a foot and a half away. One looked at me. They
both looked at the one doing it. They were both like "greys"
look, without clothes. They didn?t have any attire on or
anything on. They looked like greys except they were more human-
proportioned. Except they did have the dark eyes, but not as
almond-shaped as that. It was the only think dark that appeared
on them.

"And I wish now I could have not been so worried and disturbed,
or that I could have paid more attention. But they weren?t
threatening. They just kind of nodded and went on their
way?.they looked almost luminous. So it was kind of strange. It
was very strange."

Although that was Sherry?s most intense face-to-face encounter,
she continued to have a number of other close-up sightings of
metallic craft.

Sherry?s case is difficult to classify. Although she did
experience an apparent missing-time abduction, she has also had
an undeniably positive encounter. She has no desire to be
hypnotized, and is content to call the aliens her "friends."

It took Sherry a long time to conclude that she was having
encounters with aliens because the figures looked almost human,
the only real difference being that their eyes were larger and
darker than humans. Sherry is only one person of many who have
moved beyond abductions.

Invited Aboard and Healed
In 1995, retired couple William and Rose Shelhart experienced a
missing time encounter with a UFO outside of Sedona, Arizona. As
they drove along an isolated road, they saw a light following
them. It appeared first ahead of behind them, as if playing a
game of hide and seek. Suddenly, the light zoomed down out of
the sky and landed into a field next to their car. The couple
promptly lost consciousness. Their next memory was of stumbling
into a hotel hours later.

Realizing they had experienced missing time, they underwent
hypnosis during which they recalled that they weren?t abducted,
but were invited onboard. Says Rose, "We weren?t kidnapped or
abducted. We voluntarily boarded and we were welcome. We sought
them out and we climbed aboard, not being abducted as ?in
force.?

Rose was surprised at the appearance of the ETs. As she says,
"They looked a lot more like people than some of those sketches
do. A lot more. Their eyes were a little larger than any white
person?s big eyes would be, but they were just not enormous.
They looked like they could pass for us if they wished. And they
glowed with a blue aura which made me feel reassured, kind of on
a mental level, that they were peaceful."

Rose was also surprised by their clothing. "Something like a
military outfit, but not anything I have ever seen, and I?ve
been in Europe and here and so forth. But it would resemble that
because they were all alike, but more loose-fitting, but with
belt. Uniforms, but it looked structured more like, ?I mean
business.?

Another surprise was the lack of technological equipment on
board. "Oh, there were all kinds of lights, but very few actual
gizmos like we have on any aircraft here. [It was] like they
didn?t need them. It didn?t look like they needed too many
things. It?s like they almost had mind control to get the thing
going. But there were little lights, I guess for monitors and
things."

Rose recalled other details regarding the ETs place of origin
and their intentions on Earth. William, however, was not a good
hypnotic subject and was unable to recall anything other than
the craft landing and them being invited onboard.

William had experienced an earlier terrifying episode with
missing time, so he was somewhat relieved that their encounter
turned out to be benevolent.

Later, William and Rose had another encounter in their isolated
home in Hawaii, which confirmed for them that the ETs were
interested in their welfare. His first clue occurred upon waking
up one morning and finding a strange mark on his body. Says
William, "I woke one morning and I felt an itch on my right foot
and discovered three puncture wounds in a perfect triangle. They
were in the process of scabbing over. I sleep on a waterbed, so
nothing could have scratched it. My wife was the only witness. I
felt something itching on my right ankle, and that?s when I
looked. Because there?s no way possible in the night I could
have done this, and that?s when it happened."

William was concerned by the marks because it was obvious that
they were not natural. But what could they be?

The answer came about two weeks later when the same incident
occurred again, only this time William was awakened by an
unexplained bright beam of light entering into his bedroom. Says
William, "I woke in the middle of the night with a bright light
coming in the back window. It lasted about thirty to sixty
seconds. I froze and could not get out of bed to look outside.
My backyard is a jungle of coconut trees and plants. As I live
in the country, no car could get there in that time. When the
light came in the back window, it was just as bright as could
be. I couldn?t believe it, and there?s nothing in the back.
There?s no way a car could have gotten in there. I mean, that?s
what it looked like -- somebody?s headlight shining right into
the window. I remember waking up and seeing that. This was just
kind of shocking thing."

William?s first instinct was to get up and investigate.
Strangely, however, he found himself paralyzed. Seconds later,
he felt himself being put to sleep. When morning came and he
awoke, he immediately remembered the incident that had occurred
in the middle of the night. He could only shake his head in
wonder. Then he looked down to his right arm and received an
incredible shock. Says William, "My right wrist was itching. The
same thing happened -- three puncture wounds in a perfect
triangle?I woke up and found those triangular pin-pricks on my
right hand. And this was the hand I used when I carried mail.
This was in constant use. And they were very fresh, because you
could still see, they had just about scabbed over. I showed them
to my wife immediately. I said, ?My God! Look at this thing.
It?s perfect. It?s a perfect triangle."

William had worked for years as a postal worker and had
developed severe carpel-tunnel syndrome in his right wrist, as
well as permanent damage in his left ankle. However, immediately
following the two above incidents, he noticed a dramatic
improvement in his health. "I went and got myself a hot tub. I
didn?t everything I could to take some of that pain away. And it
wasn?t until after my incident that things started to get
better. I just know that I progressed and started to get better.
Since thin, I have been 90 percent cured?.I am almost sixty-
seven years old and I can hang off a twenty-foot ladder placing
the weight on my right foot and paint with my right hand, day
after day. I really don?t care if people doubt my explanation. I
know what I feel."

William and Rose are the perfect example of people who have
moved beyond the typical abduction scenario. Not only were they
healed, but they have now become healers themselves. This
pattern has turned up in other cases. Says Rose, "Both of us
have become more and more interested in helping people in
alternative healing ways. Even William, he has this energy in
his hands that he didn?t have before?.now it?s like I feel this
heat coming out that?s really good. And people say they feel it
out of me too. And I say, ?Oh, where did I get this from.? I
have a lot of good result stories from the neighborhood. But I?m
grateful, because I think it [the UFO connection] has a lot to
do with it."

Six Hours Onboard a UFO
In 1972, when he was 12 years old, Jack Stephens was abducted
from his vehicle in full view of his mother and brother. He was
lifted up inside a beam of light and taken inside an enormous
craft the size of a small building. He experienced a six-hour-
long encounter aboard the UFO before being deposited back into
the car.

The stunned family drove home, with most of the event shrouded
in amnesia. They recalled only a powerful light hitting the car,
the engine turning off and a slight floating sensation. Their
next memory was the light turning off, the car engine turning on
and six hours had passed. It was a typical missing time
encounter.

Years later, as an adult, Jack bit down on an impacted wisdom
tooth. This caused a flood of memories to burst forth. Jack
suddenly recalled everything that happened.

In most respects, Jack experienced the typical abduction
scenario. He recalled being taken aboard onto the craft. He was
laid out on a table and examined. They poked at his feet, probed
inside his mouth. Jack is unable to recall the appearance of the
beings, only that they were short and incredibly scary-looking.

It?s what happened next, however, that makes Jack?s account
unique in UFO literature.

Investigators? have long noticed that UFOs often hover over
electric power lines, as if they were drawing electricity into
their craft. Jack is the first abductee to witness this exact
procedure from the perspective of inside the ET craft.

After the examination, Jack was floated off the table and into
another room. The beings then placed him in a strange device
which allowed him to view the procedure. Says Jack, "We went
straight up above the fog. I could look out. The next thing, I
was down in this thing. It was like a little clear diamond-thing
on the bottom of [the craft.] I?m in this thing and there are
like bungee cords on me. I sat in this clear diamond-shape --
 actually suspended, it almost felt like bungee cords, but I
could see everything around. I got a 360-degree view. I could
look everywhere. We drop back down and we?re by my farm. We?re
literally down in the pasture above this ditch. And there are
some big high voltage power lines, heavy-duty power lines
through there. You can just feel the electricity coming off.

"Well as we dropped down to this thing, whatever the clear thing
I was in, in the bottom, kind of got smaller. It was kind of
like more of a confined space. It seemed wide open to me before,
and yet I was enclosed, in kind of like plastic or glass."

Jack was in awe. It felt like he was dangling below the craft
with a perfect view of everything around. The room he was in
seemed to design specifically for observation. In fact, the
whole room would swivel towards whatever direction he looked.
"In places it didn?t move at all, like if I just wanted to look
one way, it just stayed there. But if I turned, it would move
all over. But if I just stopped and looked one way, it would
stop and look one way."

At this point, the procedure began. "[They] were explaining to
me what they were doing. I don?t know what it was, but we went
up to the power lines. And after we got back down, that little
thing I was in seemed to kind of shrink up inside. [There were]
four rotating things on each side of this thing -- the diamond
or triangle or whatever it was -- there were four lights that
started spinning around. And I could see them from where I
was?.And I saw all those beams suck all together, come into one
big beam and hit the power pole, sucking the electricity out of
it. And these were like, I mean, LIGHTS! They all focused into
one and they started sucking electricity out of the power poles.
I can?t describe it but I could literally feel it going through
my body.

"I remember being cold. That?s when they sucked up the
electricity. That is the most vivid part of the whole thing. We
were up above it, a telephone pole, maybe two telephone pole
lengths above it. And all those lights focusing into one super
bright light -- just pshew! Just literally seeing the
electricity coming out of there, and feeling it. It was just
like it drained everything, just took it all.

"Another thing, when I was up in that thing, we were above the
fog, just kind of floating above this fog. And when they went to
go suck the electricity out of the power lines, that fog just
got out of the way. It just opened wide up, just shew! -- got
out of the way, and I could see crystal clear.

"Another thing, I remember my teeth kind of hurting when it was
sucking that stuff up. Just like when you're chewing on aluminum
foil. I remember feeling like, ?Hurry up, get this thing over
with.?"

While Jack recalls several other events, it was the above
incident which remains the most memorable. As can be seen, the
aliens seem to have intentions beyond just an abduction and
physical examination.

Taken to an Underground Base

The standard abduction scenario usually involves a person being
taken inside a UFO and examined by grey-type extraterrestrials.
But again, this scenario is not as common as many might believe.
Consider the following case, in which a young man was abducted,
not by grey-type ETs, but by praying-mantis-type ETs. Nor was he
taken inside a UFO. In fact, he recalled being taken to an
apparent underground base!

In 1967, twelve-year-old, Paul Nelson (pseudonym) was visiting
the island of Catalina with his parents. Also along was Paul?s
best friend, Michael (pseudonym.) The two boys decided to go
inside their boat and read some new comic books. Suddenly,
however, they both experienced an episode of missing time. Their
next memory was of waking up the next morning. While Paul was
unable to convince his parents that anything unusual had
happened, both Paul and his friend knew that the event was
strange.

Two weeks later, Paul was alone in his Reseda, California home
when he had another strange experience. He was alone in his room
when the door began to rattle. He jumped up and threw it open.
To his shock, he saw the shadow of a small figure running down
the hallway. He chased after it, but found nothing.

Paul didn?t know how to explain these experiences and didn?t
connect it to the UFO phenomenon. However, afterwards he
developed an interest in UFOs and began to read up on the
subject.

Many years later, he grew up, married, became a doctor and had
two children. Then he had a UFO sighting of a distant object in
the daytime sky. This renewed his interest in UFOs. He began
reading about the missing time aspect of UFO encounters when he
realized that he had experienced missing time.

Intrigued, he eventually underwent hypnosis to recover his lost
memories. Having read about UFOs, he expected to find that he
had a frightening encounter, during which he would be examined
by grey-type ETs, aboard a UFO using highly technological
equipment. Instead, it was nothing like this.

As Paul underwent the regression, his first surprise was that he
was not aboard a UFO, but instead appeared to be in an
underground base. Says Paul, "I was taken to a round-walled
room. It seemed to me more underground than it did onboard a
ship. The walls had kind of rock-like facet to them. And I was
on a table?Yeah, rock-like walls rather than metallic craft-type
walls. It gave the impression that I was in a cavern [rather]
than in a ship?It was more of an underground feeling that?s
true. That is a little anomalous."

Under hypnosis, Paul recalled his friend, Michael nearby, also
being examined. His next surprise was that the beings were what
he expected. Says Paul, "The beings weren?t the typical greys,
they were more the ?Praying Mantis? type, as I later understood.
The eyes were slightly bigger than what is seen in the typical
small grey, and a little more insectoid-like?They wore tight-
fitting uniforms, I believe. There was even a color to them, but
I can?t remember what the color was?tight-fitting jump-suit like
things. I think there was one in that bunch that had a tunic-
type thing, more looser fitting over it. I couldn?t tell how
tall they were because they were over me and I was on my back.
So I couldn?t give you the exact height. They didn?t look
particularly tall though."

Yet another surprise was the type of machinery in the room.
Having read a good deal about UFOs, Paul expected again to see
complex equipment. Instead, it all seemed amazingly primitive.
Says Paul, "The machines looked like typical military-type
computer consoles rather than alien-looking machines. There were
lights and buttons. Well, I don?t know if they were buttons, but
areas that seemed to be for pushing. Colored lights -- I can?t
remember what color off the top of my head."

Paul recalled a very short examination, but otherwise, nothing
frightening happened. Never did he feel any fear. "I don?t
remember being particularly scared about the whole thing. In
fact, I was a little intrigued by it. I don?t remember anything
painful occurring."

Conclusions

As the above cases show us, it can be extremely difficult to
categorize a UFO experience. While there are definite patterns,
encounters are as individual as the people who have them.
Witnesses, as a rule, experience a wide variety of events beyond
the abduction and examination. I am currently working with
several people whose experiences with ETs are typically
atypical. One case involves a southern California woman who has
had multiple encounters with grey-type ETs. She has several
witnesses and physical evidence to support the veracity of her
encounters, which have moved beyond the standard missing-time
abductions and examinations and evolved into fully-conscious
encounters during which she has been healed of various ailments,
has been taught how to heal, and has been given other spiritual
information. She reports that the greys are very loving and
emotional. Another case involves a lady who has had multiple
encounters with praying-mantis-type aliens. Her encounters have
not been benevolent; her health has suffered as a result.
However, on a few occasions, the aliens told her extremely
personal information which proved conclusively to her that they
were very concerned with her life. They not only showed that
they had been watching her during her entire childhood, but they
also gave her a series of predictions, several of which have
already come true. Some of the information was so personal, that
the witness refused to even discuss it.

While abductions and examinations appear to be the single most
common factor, there are a vast number of experiences beyond
this. Again, the conclusion is inescapable that
extraterrestrials have a deep in humanity. Why else would they
take the time to fix someone?s motorcycle, heal someone of
carpel-tunnel syndrome or dangle somebody below their craft and
show how they siphon electricity from power lines?







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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Sep > Sep 26

                          Mysterious 1959 Incident

From: Kenny Young <ufo@fuse.net>
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 01:05:40 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 08:10:24 -0400
Subject: Mysterious 1959 Incident


The following 1959 news article was found in the library
archives of the Flemingsburg Gazette newspaper. It was recovered
on Thursday, September 25, 2003 during an investigation of a
current crop circle alleged in the region. This 1959 incident
was mentioned by local resident Linda Martin, and also a
childhood memory of researcher Donnie Blessing, before being
identified in the newspaper offices Thursday afternoon.

This news article is of interest due to the reported dispatch of
Army personnel. I do not think this incident is recorded in
Project Blue Book, perhaps it should be. If not, its "lack of
reference" in P.B.B. is cause for consideration.

For info on the May, 2003 Flemingsburg crop circle, see the URL
link below, thanks - Kenny Young

The Flemingsburg Gazette
Thursday, September 17, 1959
PAGE ONE

"Mysterious Flying Object Seen At Wallingford"

"I thought I was dreaming but when I saw this burnt grass, I
knew I'd really seen something," exclaimed Walter Ogden, popular
rural mail carrier and landowner near Wallingford, describing
his reaction to the unidentified flying object he sighted
Monday, Sept. 7.

It was around two thirty in the morning when Mr. Ogden, who
suffers from asthma, was unable to sleep. He arose and went
outdoors to sit on top of the cistern for awhile.

Suddenly, about 200 yards from his house he observed a balloon-
like object which was suspended in the air about 50 feet from
the ground. Before Mr. Ogden's amazed stare, the object suddenly
ascended and, at the same time, a blast of fire struck the earth
underneath it.

However, it made no noise nor did it leave a vapor trail. It
zoomed upward to an estimated 500 feet, then took of in an
easterly direction.

The next day, Mr. Ogden reported the strange sight to his
postmaster and friends, but, to quote him, "no one took me
seriously."

On Sunday, Sept. 13 he repeated his story at a family reunion.
Those present made a decision - to form a search party and see
if they could find any evidence of this object on the Ogden
farm.

Near the place Mr. Ogden described, some of the men came across
an area of burnt grass, measuring 15 feet in diameter.

Authorities were duly notified and, on Monday, Army officials
went to Mr. Ogden's farm and took soil samples. Concerning these
samples, they told Mr. Ogden and Sheriff R. S. Stokely, "There's
definitely a smell of fuel about them."

Sheriff Stokely and his deputies then fenced the area and
guarded it from the hundreds of sightseers who swarmed to the
spot. Investigations were still continuing at the Gazette's
press time.

But one thing's certain - no one's laughing at Mr. Ogden's story
now.

End of article
--
UFO Research
http://home.fuse.net/ufo







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   Sep > Sep 26

                              Cochrane Alberta

From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO <hbccufo@telus.net>
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 22:06:00 -0700
Fwd Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 08:18:08 -0400
Subject: Cochrane Alberta


Hi List

Here is a sighting which took place approx: 3 years ago. I will
have more on it in a while. Again I am busy with reports and
other major UFO things going on right now.

Cochrane Alberta

When I was camping about 3 summers ago I had a strange
experience. I was with a friend. We were on the Forestry Trunk
road, West on Sundre, quite far away from traffic and in a
vacant field, it was night time, we had a campfire going.

A bright white light came on me, I thought it was my friend
being smart with a flash light, but when I looked at him, the
light was on him too. I looked at the ground there was a
distinct light, very clear line around it. I looked up and there
was a big white light in the sky, the beam shinning on us both,
there wasn't a sound. We watched it, it appeared to go straight
up, as it was getting smaller, then went out, still not a sound.
Was a black night.

More information will be coming.


Brian Vike, Director
HBCC UFO Research
Canadian Toll Free UFO Hotline 1 866 262 1989 - Free call.
Home - Phone/Fax 1 250 845 2189
HBCC UFO Forum Board
http://216.147.50.102/HBCC-UFO/index.php
email: hbccufo@telus.net
Website: http://www3.telus.net/public/wilbur8/hbcc_ufo_research.htm





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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Sep > Sep 26

                               UFO Magazine UK

From: Philip Mantle <philipmantle@hotmail.com>
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 12:27:48 +0000
Fwd Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 08:37:19 -0400
Subject: UFO Magazine UK


Dear Colleagues,

I have passed on my thoughts on the sudden and sad passing of
Graham Birdsall to his wife Christine and the rest of his
family. Having known Graham for almost 25 years, it was a great
shock to learn of Graham's death, especially as I had been with
him just a few weeks ago and we were even discussing a field
trip to Hessdalen in Norway.

It will come as no surprise that a number of well-known sceptics
are already predicting the end of UFO Magazine. Well, they will
be disaapointed I can assure you. Having been at UFO Magazine's
offices today, it is as busy as ever. All the staff there are
determined to carry on and keep the magazine going as a memorial
to Graham's work.

I've been helping out in a small way and I know many others are
doing the same. Articles are being submitted by a number of
well-known UFO authors to ensure that the magazine does not
suffer in the coming months.

I'd therefore respectfully like to suggest that if you have an
article or a news item that you might like to see considered for
publication, to forward it on to me and I'll ensure that it is
passed on to the UFO Magazine staff.

Graham's funeral will take place on Tuesday 30th October and I
would like to take this opportunity to, once again, offer my
heart-felt condolences to his entire family.


Regards,

Philip Mantle.







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   Sep > Sep 26

                     Re: Mysterious 1959 Incident - Hall

From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 15:13:07 +0000
Fwd Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 17:34:13 -0400
Subject: Re: Mysterious 1959 Incident - Hall


>From: Kenny Young <ufo@fuse.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 01:05:40 -0400
>Subject: Mysterious 1959 Incident

>The following 1959 news article was found in the library
>archives of the Flemingsburg Gazette newspaper. It was recovered
>on Thursday, September 25, 2003 during an investigation of a
>current crop circle alleged in the region. This 1959 incident
>was mentioned by local resident Linda Martin, and also a
>childhood memory of researcher Donnie Blessing, before being
>identified in the newspaper offices Thursday afternoon.

>This news article is of interest due to the reported dispatch of
>Army personnel. I do not think this incident is recorded in
>Project Blue Book, perhaps it should be. If not, its "lack of
>reference" in P.B.B. is cause for consideration.

>For info on the May, 2003 Flemingsburg crop circle, see the URL
>link below, thanks - Kenny Young

>The Flemingsburg Gazette
>Thursday, September 17, 1959
>PAGE ONE

>"Mysterious Flying Object Seen At Wallingford"

>"I thought I was dreaming but when I saw this burnt grass, I
>knew I'd really seen something," exclaimed Walter Ogden, popular
>rural mail carrier and landowner near Wallingford, describing
>his reaction to the unidentified flying object he sighted
>Monday, Sept. 7.

>It was around two thirty in the morning when Mr. Ogden, who
>suffers from asthma, was unable to sleep. He arose and went
>outdoors to sit on top of the cistern for awhile.

>Suddenly, about 200 yards from his house he observed a balloon-
>like object which was suspended in the air about 50 feet from
>the ground. Before Mr. Ogden's amazed stare, the object suddenly
>ascended and, at the same time, a blast of fire struck the earth
>underneath it.

>However, it made no noise nor did it leave a vapor trail. It
>zoomed upward to an estimated 500 feet, then took of in an
>easterly direction.

>The next day, Mr. Ogden reported the strange sight to his
>postmaster and friends, but, to quote him, "no one took me
>seriously."

>On Sunday, Sept. 13 he repeated his story at a family reunion.
>Those present made a decision - to form a search party and see
>if they could find any evidence of this object on the Ogden
>farm.

>Near the place Mr. Ogden described, some of the men came across
>an area of burnt grass, measuring 15 feet in diameter.

>Authorities were duly notified and, on Monday, Army officials
>went to Mr. Ogden's farm and took soil samples. Concerning these
>samples, they told Mr. Ogden and Sheriff R. S. Stokely, "There's
>definitely a smell of fuel about them."

>Sheriff Stokely and his deputies then fenced the area and
>guarded it from the hundreds of sightseers who swarmed to the
>spot. Investigations were still continuing at the Gazette's
>press time.

>But one thing's certain - no one's laughing at Mr. Ogden's story
>now.

>End of article

>UFO Research
>http://home.fuse.net/ufo

Kenny,

This case was investigated for NICAP by the late Bill Leet of
Lexington, Ky., and extensively reported by NICAP at the time. A
very solid case.

See pp. 138, 151 of The UFO Evidence (1964) where it is briefly
mentioned. The full report would have been in the U.F.O.
Investigator for that time period.

- Dick

(Richard Hall, former Assistant Director, NICAP)







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                Re: Shame On SCI-FI & Fenton Bailey - Decker

From: Ron Decker <decker@wtez.net>
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 10:28:33 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 23:04:45 -0400
Subject: Re: Shame On SCI-FI & Fenton Bailey - Decker


>From: Katharina Wilson <K_Wilson@alienjigsaw.com>
>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
>Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 09:54:37 -0400
>Subject: Shame On SCI-FI & Fenton Bailey

>Last night I watched "UFOS: The Field Guide" on the Sci-Fi
>channel, produced by Fenton Bailey and another person whose name
>flashed by so fast, one wonders if they even wanted anyone to
>know who created this junk.

>I am amazed at what an unprofessional, ill-conceived and mean-
>spirited piece of garbage "UFOS: The Field Guide" is.

<snip>

>If it was Sci-Fi's intention to do a "tongue-and-cheek"
>production about the UFO-abduction phenomenon, then why did they
>interview a woman (abductee) who came across as credible and
>very sincere, Budd Hopkins, Bill Hamilton, John Schussler, a
>fire-fighter who had a spectacular up-close encounter, and other
>equally qualified people to speak about this subject?

>Could it be that Sci-Fi's production of "Out of the Blue"
>ruffled too many feathers? Did they need to "balance" their
>programing in order to diffuse the facts they brought to light
>to the general public during "Out of the Blue" or "Taken"?

>Shame on Fenton Bailey and Sci-Fi for producing and airing this
>despicable piece of garbage.

Katharina,

I watched the program but came away with a slightly different
impression. I think it was a very lame attempt to inject humor
into the presentation ostensibly to lighten it. Why I don't
know.

It's not as if the UFO question lends itself to a humorous
approach. At one moment you had the silly 'commentary' then the
interviews with serious observers and so forth.

And I think the producers/writers are/were under the impression
that their 'commentary' was clever 'tongue in cheek' asides
while in reality they were so embarrassing and poorly done that
I was tempted to turn off the program on several occasions. I'm
still wondering why they thought they should put them in in the
first place.

Therefore, I don't think the producers were approaching the
program from a dis-informational or debunker's approach. I think
it was put together by a bunch of folks with extremely low
levels of talent - if any. I don't think they know enough about
the subject to do much harm.

I'm praying that they don't get their hands on any more cash
with which to crank out something that deplorable again.


Very best regards,

Ron Decker






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                 Re: World's First Alien Abductee - Andersen

From: Kathleen Andersen <KAnder6444@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 12:24:41 EDT
Fwd Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 23:06:46 -0400
Subject: Re: World's First Alien Abductee - Andersen


>From: Louise A. Lowry <ShnSassy1@aol.com>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:39:49 -0500
>Subject: Re: World's First Alien Abductee

>Do you know if he had other experiences? Or was it just the one?

Hi Louise, even though he doesn't remember any other sightings,
he is a person who has experienced waking up a with bloody nose.
He has an uncanny ability with frequencies. He designs
communication radios for police/fire.

He is now awaiting a heart transplant (54 years old) and lives
in Connecticut. I can ask him some questions. He lived in
Burbank from 1953 until 1959. His father was working at Lockheed
and also was one of the designers of the propeller for the
Spruce Goose and worked with Howard Hughes.

I'd like to find the similiarities.


Kathleen Andersen
Seattle






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                        Re: UFO Magazine UK - Gevaerd

From: A. J. Gevaerd - Revista UFO <gevaerd@ufo.com.br>
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 12:25:56 -0300
Fwd Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 23:15:27 -0400
Subject: Re: UFO Magazine UK - Gevaerd


>From: Philip Mantle <philipmantle@hotmail.com>
>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
>Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 12:27:48 +0000
>Subject: UFO Magazine UK

>I have passed on my thoughts on the sudden and sad passing of
>Graham Birdsall to his wife Christine and the rest of his
>family. Having known Graham for almost 25 years, it was a great
>shock to learn of Graham's death, especially as I had been with
>him just a few weeks ago and we were even discussing a field
>trip to Hessdalen in Norway.

>It will come as no surprise that a number of well-known sceptics
>are already predicting the end of UFO Magazine. Well, they will
>be disaapointed I can assure you. Having been at UFO Magazine's
>offices today, it is as busy as ever. All the staff there are
>determined to carry on and keep the magazine going as a memorial
>to Graham's work.

>I've been helping out in a small way and I know many others are
>doing the same. Articles are being submitted by a number of
>well-known UFO authors to ensure that the magazine does not
>suffer in the coming months.

>I'd therefore respectfully like to suggest that if you have an
>article or a news item that you might like to see considered for
>publication, to forward it on to me and I'll ensure that it is
>passed on to the UFO Magazine staff.

>Graham's funeral will take place on Tuesday 30th October and I
>would like to take this opportunity to, once again, offer my
>heart-felt condolences to his entire family.


Dear Philip and colleagues:

Thanks for the update about the UK UFO Magazine. I've been in
their office a few times and I know how much effort Graham,
Mark, Russel, Christine, the girls and crew had put into getting
the magazine out. I have no doubt that they will work even
harder now Graham is gone, to get the job done. I entirely trust
their capacity and ability to produce a fine publication, as UK
UFO Mag has been all these years. Graham's spirit is a very
inspiring one.

As an editor myself, in charge of a lot of daily routines to
have my magazine done each month, and generally working 14-16
hours a day, I know perfectly well that publishing a UFO
publication is only possible when those responsible really
believe in what they do and when they have a great love and
respect for Ufology. Editing and publishing a magazine of any
kind is something hard, but it is even harder when the subject
is Ufology.

I always had great admiration and respect for Graham and his
devoted team, but that should improve now as I will certainly
see his people moving on by themselves. Philip, please transmit
to Russel, Christine and the girls that if I can be of any help
in this process, I will be enormously glad to assist them. This
great project must go on and it will, with persistance, strengh
and courage.

All the best,

A. J. Gevaerd








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   Sep > Sep 26

                    Re: Mysterious 1959 Incident - Hatch

From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 12:45:12 -0700
Fwd Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 23:39:36 -0400
Subject: Re: Mysterious 1959 Incident - Hatch


>From: Kenny Young <ufo@fuse.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 01:05:40 -0400
>Subject: Mysterious 1959 Incident

>The following 1959 news article was found in the library
>archives of the Flemingsburg Gazette newspaper. It was recovered
>on Thursday, September 25, 2003 during an investigation of a
>current crop circle alleged in the region. This 1959 incident
>was mentioned by local resident Linda Martin, and also a
>childhood memory of researcher Donnie Blessing, before being
>identified in the newspaper offices Thursday afternoon.

>This news article is of interest due to the reported dispatch of
>Army personnel. I do not think this incident is recorded in
>Project Blue Book, perhaps it should be. If not, its "lack of
>reference" in P.B.B. is cause for consideration.

>For info on the May, 2003 Flemingsburg crop circle, see the URL
>link below, thanks - Kenny Young

>The Flemingsburg Gazette
>Thursday, September 17, 1959
>PAGE ONE

>"Mysterious Flying Object Seen At Wallingford"

>"I thought I was dreaming but when I saw this burnt grass, I
>knew I'd really seen something," exclaimed Walter Ogden, popular
>rural mail carrier and landowner near Wallingford, describing
>his reaction to the unidentified flying object he sighted
>Monday, Sept. 7.

>It was around two thirty in the morning when Mr. Ogden, who
>suffers from asthma, was unable to sleep. He arose and went
>outdoors to sit on top of the cistern for awhile.

>Suddenly, about 200 yards from his house he observed a balloon-
>like object which was suspended in the air about 50 feet from
>the ground. Before Mr. Ogden's amazed stare, the object suddenly
>ascended and, at the same time, a blast of fire struck the earth
>underneath it.

>However, it made no noise nor did it leave a vapor trail. It
>zoomed upward to an estimated 500 feet, then took of in an
>easterly direction.

<snip>

>Near the place Mr. Ogden described, some of the men came across
>an area of burnt grass, measuring 15 feet in diameter.

>Authorities were duly notified and, on Monday, Army officials
>went to Mr. Ogden's farm and took soil samples. Concerning these
>samples, they told Mr. Ogden and Sheriff R. S. Stokely, "There's
>definitely a smell of fuel about them."

>Sheriff Stokely and his deputies then fenced the area and
>guarded it from the hundreds of sightseers who swarmed to the
>spot. Investigations were still continuing at the Gazette's
>press time.

> End of article
> --
> UFO Research http://home.fuse.net/ufo


Hi Kenny:

Loren Gross also found out about the 1959 sighting somehow. Did
you send it to him? Here's my listing:

#6243: 1959/09/07 02:30h d=10m 83:37W 38:24N NAM USA KNT
WALLINGFORD,KY:GRY OVOID LITES AREA/BLU GLOW:BLU BEAM down AS
OBJ rises: >>E: BURNT CCL/GND
/r143 GROSS,L.:UFOs a HISTORY-1959 Book #3 Pg 77

Oddly, the very next listing here is also in Kentucky, and
on the very same day .. some 18 hours later:

#6244: 1959/09/07 20:10h d=25m 84:30W 38:12N NAM USA KNT
N/LEXINGTON,KY:BBK:EX AF PILOT+:5 GLO-OVOIDS DIVE+,MVR E+W:
SHARP TURNS:XFAST
/r143 GROSS,L.:UFOs a HISTORY-1959 Book #3 Pg 74

The two locations might be 60-70 miles apart as the crow flies
judging from the coordinates. Again I have to credit you and
Loren for digging these out.

What's new with your article is that the Wallingford 1959 object
departed to the East. I had missed that.

Do you know of anything going on between Wallingford and
Lexington in about September 1959 that might have attracted the
attention or interest of ufos?


Best wishes

- Larry Hatch






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   Sep > Sep 26

                 Re: World's First Alien Abductee - Andersen

From: Kathleen Andersen <KAnder6444@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 12:24:41 EDT
Fwd Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 23:06:46 -0400
Subject: Re: World's First Alien Abductee - Andersen


>From: Louise A. Lowry <ShnSassy1@aol.com>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:39:49 -0500
>Subject: Re: World's First Alien Abductee

>Do you know if he had other experiences? Or was it just the one?

Hi Louise, even though he doesn't remember any other sightings,
he is a person who has experienced waking up a with bloody nose.
He has an uncanny ability with frequencies. He designs
communication radios for police/fire.

He is now awaiting a heart transplant (54 years old) and lives
in Connecticut. I can ask him some questions. He lived in
Burbank from 1953 until 1959. His father was working at Lockheed
and also was one of the designers of the propeller for the
Spruce Goose and worked with Howard Hughes.

I'd like to find the similiarities.


Kathleen Andersen
Seattle






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   Sep > Sep 26

                        Re: UFO Magazine UK - Gevaerd

From: A. J. Gevaerd - Revista UFO <gevaerd@ufo.com.br>
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 12:25:56 -0300
Fwd Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 23:15:27 -0400
Subject: Re: UFO Magazine UK - Gevaerd


>From: Philip Mantle <philipmantle@hotmail.com>
>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
>Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 12:27:48 +0000
>Subject: UFO Magazine UK

>I have passed on my thoughts on the sudden and sad passing of
>Graham Birdsall to his wife Christine and the rest of his
>family. Having known Graham for almost 25 years, it was a great
>shock to learn of Graham's death, especially as I had been with
>him just a few weeks ago and we were even discussing a field
>trip to Hessdalen in Norway.

>It will come as no surprise that a number of well-known sceptics
>are already predicting the end of UFO Magazine. Well, they will
>be disaapointed I can assure you. Having been at UFO Magazine's
>offices today, it is as busy as ever. All the staff there are
>determined to carry on and keep the magazine going as a memorial
>to Graham's work.

>I've been helping out in a small way and I know many others are
>doing the same. Articles are being submitted by a number of
>well-known UFO authors to ensure that the magazine does not
>suffer in the coming months.

>I'd therefore respectfully like to suggest that if you have an
>article or a news item that you might like to see considered for
>publication, to forward it on to me and I'll ensure that it is
>passed on to the UFO Magazine staff.

>Graham's funeral will take place on Tuesday 30th October and I
>would like to take this opportunity to, once again, offer my
>heart-felt condolences to his entire family.


Dear Philip and colleagues:

Thanks for the update about the UK UFO Magazine. I've been in
their office a few times and I know how much effort Graham,
Mark, Russel, Christine, the girls and crew had put into getting
the magazine out. I have no doubt that they will work even
harder now Graham is gone, to get the job done. I entirely trust
their capacity and ability to produce a fine publication, as UK
UFO Mag has been all these years. Graham's spirit is a very
inspiring one.

As an editor myself, in charge of a lot of daily routines to
have my magazine done each month, and generally working 14-16
hours a day, I know perfectly well that publishing a UFO
publication is only possible when those responsible really
believe in what they do and when they have a great love and
respect for Ufology. Editing and publishing a magazine of any
kind is something hard, but it is even harder when the subject
is Ufology.

I always had great admiration and respect for Graham and his
devoted team, but that should improve now as I will certainly
see his people moving on by themselves. Philip, please transmit
to Russel, Christine and the girls that if I can be of any help
in this process, I will be enormously glad to assist them. This
great project must go on and it will, with persistance, strengh
and courage.

All the best,

A. J. Gevaerd








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   Sep > Sep 27

                          Secrecy News -- 09/26/03

From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood@fas.org>
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 11:51:15 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 08:43:24 -0400
Subject: Secrecy News -- 09/26/03


SECRECY NEWS
from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy
Volume 2003, Issue No. 81
September 26, 2003


**      TIA TERMINATED, BUT NIMD LIVES ON
**      CLASSIFIED RESEARCH ON CAMPUS
**      GAO FAULTS FBI IT MODERNIZATION
**      CONDOLEEZZA RICE ON BACKGROUND, CONT'D


TIA TERMINATED, BUT NIMD LIVES ON

In the culmination of a festering public controversy, Congress
this week eliminated all funding for the Terrorism Information
Awareness (TIA) data-mining program of the Defense Advanced
Research Projects Agency and shut down the DARPA Information
Awareness Office, TIA's parent entity that was formerly headed
by Adm. John Poindexter.

"The [House and Senate] conferees are concerned about the
activities of the Information Awareness Office and direct that
the Office be terminated immediately," according to the
conference report on the FY 2004 defense appropriations bill.

The move does not mean the end of other government data-mining
research programs that are comparable to the aborted TIA.

"The conference agreement does not restrict the National Foreign
Intelligence Program from using processing, analysis and
collaboration tools for counterterrorism foreign intelligence
purposes," the report states.  See:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/congress/2003/tia.html

Indeed, one TIA-like program conducted under the auspices of
U.S. intelligence is the "Novel Intelligence from Massive Data"
(NIMD) initiative of the little-known Intelligence Community
Advanced Research and Development Activity (ARDA).

Pursued with a minimal public profile and lacking a polarizing
figure like Adm. Poindexter to galvanize opposition, NIMD has
proceeded quietly even as TIA imploded.

The existence of NIMD was first noted last year by Jim McGee of
CQ Homeland Security.  More recently, on July 24, 2003 he wrote
in CQ Homeland Security that NIMD was "roaring down a parallel
research track to TIA."  NIMD was also cited in a May 21, 2003
article in the New York Times.

A summary description of the NIMD program is available on the
ARDA web site here:

http://ic-arda.org/Novel_Intelligence/index.html

The surviving classified data-mining programs "have all the
safeguards of programs under the jurisdiction of the National
Foreign Intelligence Program to protect civil liberties of U.S.
citizens," said Sen. Daniel Inouye (D-HI) on September 25.

"These are very important to the ongoing war on terrorism
overseas.  The conferees have agreed to allow this effort to
continue," he said.


CLASSIFIED RESEARCH ON CAMPUS

The question of whether and how to permit classified research in
an academic setting continues to roil university campuses around
the country, some of which prohibit such research while others
permit it in one form or another.  (SN, 02/28/02)

At the University of Alaska at Fairbanks (UAF), the Faculty
Senate adopted a resolution last spring that would curtail
classified research there.

But on September 15, the UAF Chancellor disapproved the
resolution, which "creates substantive restrictions on the
performance of classified and proprietary research," on
procedural grounds.

This week, however, the UAF Faculty Senate voted by the required
two-thirds majority to override the Chancellor's veto.

"The process of negotiation continues," said UAF philosophy
professor Norm Swazo, a critic of classified university research
who recently stepped down as president of the Faculty Senate.

Background on the UAF controversy over classified research may
be found here:

http://www.uaf.edu/uafgov/faculty/Classified_Research/CR.html


GAO FAULTS FBI IT MODERNIZATION

The Federal Bureau of Investigation has made scarcely any
headway in modernizing its archaic information technology (IT)
infrastructure, the General Accounting Office reported.

"Unless this changes, ... the bureau will be severely challenged
in its ability to implement a set of modernized systems that
optimally support critical mission needs."

See "Information Technology: FBI Needs An Enterprise
Architecture to Guide Its Modernization Activities," U.S.
General Accounting Office, September 2003:

http://www.fas.org/irp/gao/gao-03-959.pdf


CONDOLEEZZA RICE ON BACKGROUND, CONT'D

The White House moved swiftly yesterday to delete a reporter's
reference to "Dr. Rice" from the transcript posted on the White
House web site of what was supposed to be a background briefing
with an unnamed "senior administration official" (SN, 09/25/03).

But the raw transcript of the September 24 briefing, provided by
the Federal Document Clearing House, is still preserved in the
Lexis-Nexis database.

And a replica of the original, unaltered page (printer friendly
version) including the reference to Dr. Rice has been posted
here:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/2003/09/wh092403.html

The pretense of anonymity in such circumstances is silly.  But
it is also pernicious since it adds one more veil for officials
to hide behind, distancing the public from its government and
shielding officials from responsibility for their own words.



_______________________________________________
Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the
Federation of American Scientists.

To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to
secrecy_news-request@lists.fas.org
with "subscribe" in the body of the message.

OR email your request to saftergood@fas.org

Secrecy News is archived at:
http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html

_______________________
Steven Aftergood
Project on Government Secrecy
Federation of American Scientists
web:    www.fas.org/sgp/index.html
email:  saftergood@fas.org
voice:  (202) 454-4691





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   Sep > Sep 27

                    Re: Mysterious 1959 Incident - Jones

From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 22:51:27 +0100
Fwd Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 08:54:31 -0400
Subject: Re: Mysterious 1959 Incident - Jones


>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
>To: ufoupdates@sympatico.ca
>Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 15:13:07 +0000
>Subject: Re: Mysterious 1959 Incident

Evening Dick, Errol, All

Something caught my eye.

>- Dick

>(Richard Hall, former Assistant Director, NICAP)

Dick, or Richard if you prefer.

Do you find yourself wishing for the "good old days" of NICAP,
or do you think Ufology has moved forward in any sense?

The reason that I ask is that so many times I find reference to
NICAP files & etc and I wish I had been around at the time to be
involved in something that _big_

I know we Brits had BUFORA when Jenny headed it up and etc. But
BUFORA never seemed to have the impact that NICAP has had on
this ufological circle. Or is that just me?

Comments Jenny? Andy?


Warmest to all

Sean
--

   In an infinite universe, infinitely anything is possible.
                        Sean Jones
              http://www.tedric.demon.co.uk/





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   Sep > Sep 27

                           UFO Crashes Questioned

From: Noel Herbiet <2orpheus6@telkomsa.net>
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 19:15:26 +0200
Fwd Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 08:52:29 -0400
Subject: UFO Crashes Questioned


Hi All

The seemingly renewed interest in UFO crashes has prompted me to
ask the members of this list what their personal take is on this
rather alarming characteristic. I say alarming because if we are
to believe all that is written, there have been quite a few
alleged UFO crashes which implies that either these ET folk are
rotten pilots or that we have a weapon capable of crippling such
a craft or that in fact, the number of crashes are proportional
to the number of fly-bys which would imply that they must be
buzzing our skies a very great deal.

Let me firstly say that I do not believe that all reported UFO
crashes are that of an ET craft as such.

1. More than likely, a fair proportion of reported "crashes" are
that of some space debris or such like.

2. Another possibility is that one of our own experimental
aircraft has a difficulty on a test flight and ends up crashing.
That would account for the quick military response and presence
to recover and protect the wreckage from prying eyes.

3. Lets assume that a further proportion never actually happened
and are pure fabrication on the part of some misguided
individual. That leaves us with a relatively small percentage of
true UFO crashes. The question now is, why do they crash? In
some cases there is no reason to think that there was any
intervention on our part in the malfunction, intended or
unintended.

Is it really possible that these alleged ET craft crash through
nothing else than pilot error? How can this be if they have such
apparently sophisticated technology.

Something about these two questions does not feel right. It is
not what one would expect from an advanced race, both mentally
and technologically. Surely these ET pilots would have better
judgement than to crash where they can be retrieved by us and
their technology apparently reverse engineered.

In comparison, we have flown to the moon and back with a very
much more primitive machine so many times during the early
space program, yet we have never crashed on the moon, have we?
One thought that does come to mind to explain the high number of
crashes and that is that maybe, just maybe, they have HUMAN
pilots and that these crashing UFO are nothing else than our own
technological creation. I wont take that thought further now, I'll
leave it to the members to ponder and debate. However I do think
that I have raised some valid questions in the above. We cannot
take UFO crashes for granted and just accept them. It one thing
viewing a UFO in flight, quite another to accept that they crash
for no apparent reason.

I look forward to the List member's comments.


Regards,

Noel Herbiet
ECUFOR
South Africa







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                         September 2002 UFO photos?

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker@earthlink.net>
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 18:13:47 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 09:09:47 -0400
Subject: September 2002 UFO photos?


Mid-September 2002 UFO Photos From Aircraft Flying D.C. Area to
Atlanta?

Hello List Members,

Help is sought in getting more information on a three-photo case
from Mid-September, 2002 (I think it was.), wherein three photos
of an object with a long trail behind it were taken from an
aircraft cabin during a flight from some airport in the
Washington, D.C., area to Atlanta, Georgia (or in the opposite
direction) - if I recall correctly. The photos were taken either
around sunrise or sunset.

The three photos were posted on someone's webpage or website,
but the photographer remained unidentified - for good reason, I
suppose, if he or she was an airline pilot, for example.

Information sought:

(1) A link to those photos;

(2) And specific data about the air carrier, route, altitude,
time, and approximate location of the alleged photo event, etc.,
and;

(3) In total confidence, the name of the photographer and/or
other witnesses in the cabin, along with contact information.

Any help on this would make me very appreciative.


Appreciatively,

Ray Stanford

"You know my method. It is founded upon the observance of
trifles." -- Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery






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                             Giant Triangle UFOs

From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 18:19:56 EDT
Fwd Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 09:12:14 -0400
Subject: Giant Triangle UFOs


Regarding the giant triangular craft reported over the years and
being one whose family has lived in the Hudson Valley region of
NY where the majority of these craft have been reported,
photographed, bumped into, leanded on and snowballed, it came to
me to research the old 'flying wing' aircraft.

Luckily I stumbled upon http://www.nurflugel.com a website
devoted to the technology and history of the flying wing.  It's
manned and populated by some brilliant professionals in all
fields of science and hobbyists alike.

I've been ribbed several times by the list for bringing up UFO
stuff but suprisingly I gleaned some startling information and
down right confessions of coverups.

Of note is the historical data. The flying wing as we know it
was pioneered in Germany by the Horten Bros, Alexander Lippisch
and others. Few years back THE Dr. Walter Horten was still alive
and chatted with one of the members of that list and discussed
the terror of being a scientist under the thumb of the Third
Reich.

No this isn't another 'Nazi UFO' thread but you'ld be suprised
at how advanced they actually were and wouldn't be suprised at
how stupid Hitler was.

Following the war years the flying wing technologies went in
areas we didn't dream of in the public sector. You MUST take the
time to study the history of these craft and how the technology
once shunned and dismissed as 'too unstable', 'too radical' has
become a benchmark for superior application.

The men and women of our defense industry finally discovered
this ( hence the Stealth Bomber ) as did the private sector
who've built craft and piloted them over the decades unbeknownst
to us pedestrians.

You aircraft experts will see what I mean. Years ago I showed
good ol' Jeff Rense the site and he broke a story on the
advances of these aircraft.

If you join the list be warned it's not a 'UFO' list and that
there are many well heeled pros who are experts in the Nazi
years.  Some members take things too seriously while others love
to discuss the unconventional.

Yes, I found my answers to the flying triangle craft.

That site is well worth the visit and bookmarking.


Greg






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                   Re: Mysterious 1959 Incident - Speiser

From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser@yahoo.com>
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 14:53:38 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 08:58:57 -0400
Subject: Re: Mysterious 1959 Incident - Speiser


>From: Kenny Young <ufo@fuse.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 01:05:40 -0400
>Subject: Mysterious 1959 Incident

>The following 1959 news article was found in the library
>archives of the Flemingsburg Gazette newspaper. It was recovered
>on Thursday, September 25, 2003 during an investigation of a
>current crop circle alleged in the region. This 1959 incident
>was mentioned by local resident Linda Martin, and also a
>childhood memory of researcher Donnie Blessing, before being
>identified in the newspaper offices Thursday afternoon.

>This news article is of interest due to the reported dispatch of
>Army personnel. I do not think this incident is recorded in
>Project Blue Book, perhaps it should be. If not, its "lack of
>reference" in P.B.B. is cause for consideration.

>For info on the May, 2003 Flemingsburg crop circle, see the URL
>link below, thanks - Kenny Young

>The Flemingsburg Gazette
>Thursday, September 17, 1959

>Page one

>"Mysterious Flying Object Seen At Wallingford"

>"I thought I was dreaming but when I saw this burnt grass, I
>knew I'd really seen something," exclaimed Walter Ogden, popular
>rural mail carrier and landowner near Wallingford, describing
>his reaction to the unidentified flying object he sighted
>Monday, Sept. 7.

>It was around two thirty in the morning when Mr. Ogden, who
>suffers from asthma, was unable to sleep. He arose and went
>outdoors to sit on top of the cistern for awhile.

>Suddenly, about 200 yards from his house he observed a balloon-
>like object which was suspended in the air about 50 feet from
>the ground. Before Mr. Ogden's amazed stare, the object suddenly
>ascended and, at the same time, a blast of fire struck the earth
>underneath it.

>However, it made no noise nor did it leave a vapor trail. It
>zoomed upward to an estimated 500 feet, then took of in an
>easterly direction.

>The next day, Mr. Ogden reported the strange sight to his
>postmaster and friends, but, to quote him, "no one took me
>seriously."

<snip>


Could this have been one of the early Estes two-stage hobby
rockets?

==JJS==







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                 The Truth Is Out There But It's Classified

From: Eustaquio Andrea Patounas <socex@terra.com.br>
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 01:39:16 -0300
Fwd Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 09:27:55 -0400
Subject: The Truth Is Out There But It's Classified


Source: The New York Times

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/09/27/opinion/27SAT4.html

September 27, 2003

The corners of the Internet frequented by fans of and alien-
creature sightings were abuzz last week when President Bush
extended for another year the total secrecy of Area 51, a large
Air Force base in the Nevada desert.

Since the base was established in 1954 to test the U-2 spy
plane, its cloaked existence has fueled speculation that it is
used for something else: the storage and study of captured
extraterrestrials and their spacecraft, including those said to
have landed in Roswell, N.M. A 1997 Air Force report saying
there were no captured aliens served only to convince the
faithful that there must have been.

But if the site stokes distrust, it should be for something more
down to earth. Mr. Bush's order effectively lets the Air Force
flout environmental laws without a public accounting. That is
understandably upsetting to a group of former workers and two
widows represented by Jonathan Turley, a George Washington
University law professor who filed suit in 1994, claiming that
exposure to toxic materials illegally burned on the grounds had
caused gruesome skin rashes and respiratory ailments.

The secrecy surrounding Area 51 has been obsessive, even for the
military, which does not like to acknowledge its existence, much
less whether officers illegally handled hazardous waste. In
1995, in response to the suit, President Bill Clinton issued the
first annual exemption to protect the military from having to
make disclosures.

While armed patrols and ominous signs warning of "deadly force"
isolate Area 51, situated about 90 miles northwest of Las Vegas,
foreign satellite photos of buildings and of a runway several
miles long hint at its uses. Rather than performing alien
autopsies, the Air Force is more likely to be using the site to
test new military hardware. Few would disagree that such work
deserves to be classified, but it should not give the government
a pass to break the law or to abuse the basic rights of its
workers.






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                   Re: Mysterious 1959 Incident - Christol

From: Michael Christol <spachopr@bellsouth.net>
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 20:07:52 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 09:17:58 -0400
Subject: Re: Mysterious 1959 Incident - Christol


>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
>To: ufoupdates@sympatico.ca
>Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 15:13:07 +0000
>Subject: Re: Mysterious 1959 Incident


>Kenny,

>This case was investigated for NICAP by the late Bill Leet of
>Lexington, Ky., and extensively reported by NICAP at the time. A
>very solid case.

>See pp. 138, 151 of The UFO Evidence (1964) where it is briefly
>mentioned. The full report would have been in the U.F.O.
>Investigator for that time period.


>- Dick

>(Richard Hall, former Assistant Director, NICAP)


Dick,

In July or August, 1967, I, along with Jack Murphree, a local
Radio DJ, and Ralph Dorris, and Engineer for General Electric,
interviewed a Mr. Darrel Whitehouse, of RR?, Philpot, Ky.

Mr. Whitehouse advised us that he heard a sound of squeeling
tires on the road outside his house, so he went out to
investigate. The local teens used the straight stretch in front
of his house as a favorite place to drag race.

When he walked outside, he didn't see anything, so he sat to
smoke a cigarette. As he was setting there looking to his right,
down the road, he heard a "pop" and turned to his left, looking
diagonally toward his soybean field. He saw what appeared to be
"a barrel" shaped object rising vertically from his soybean
field. He said: "the object went straight up about a hundred
feet and then sort of fell over, level with the ground, and flew
off toward the north, toward Indiana."

He said he: "didn't hear no sound at all other than the pop."

When he went out to his bean field the next day, he found a
circle approximately 30 feet in diameter, which was devoid of
any live plants. The ground within the circle was dry and dusty.
The plants were brown and dry, but not burned as a fire would.

The plants outside the circle were normal. Ralph Dorris flew
over the field in a small plane and photographed the area.

The photos showed a distinctive "V" shaped trail leading to the
north for about 30 yards, where the tops of the plants were also
browned, although the rest of the plants were fine, as we later
observed.

We took several photographs with a black and white Polorid
Swinger camera, but I only have one of those photos left, and it
has faded. You can still see the circle, but I wish still today,
I had used my Brownie Kodac color film camera.

I do not know what happened to the other photos. Jack and Ralph
may have taken them, but, both are now deceased, to the best of
my knowledge. I know Ralph is, but Jack moved to Hawaii and I
attempted to locate him in 1993 when I went there on vacation
with my wife, but had no luck. I went to the store he told me he
was working at, but he had been gone from there for some time
and they had no address for him.

I took samples of the bean plants and the soil within and
without the circle and sent them to NICAP.

I received a reply from NICAP advising me that they had received
the plants and would contact Mr. Whitehouse. I did not talk to
Mr. Whitehouse after I received the letter. So, I do not know if
they actually contacted him or not.

I was hoping you might have access to the files of that time and
could advise me.


Thanks,

Mike








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   Sep > Sep 27

               FOIA Request Listing Posted At The Memory Hole

From: Larry W. Bryant <overtci@cavtel.net>
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 21:26:50 -0400 (EDT)
Fwd Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 09:24:57 -0400
Subject: FOIA Request Listing Posted At The Memory Hole


APBnews.com FOIA Request Listing Posted at The Memory Hole

LWB Note: Fellow UFO researchers will find a few gems in the
listing -- such as this one: "DOD -- COPY OF UFO SIGHTINGS BY
U.S. NAVY PERSONNEL DURING OPERATION DESERT STORM."

Also, the APBnews.com folks queried the FBI about any of its
records that pertain to Fate magazine.

Then there's the multiple query (to FBI, CIA, and Defense
Intelligence Agency) about any records pertaining to the late
radio talk-show host Long John Nebel.

Already, with just a cursory view of the listing, I've come up
with at least one subject item that will trigger my forthcoming
FOIA request to the FBI.

What a gold mine for researchers, historians, journalists,
activists, and literary- curio hunters! And what a great
resource the MemoryHole is becoming!

-----

From: Michael Ravnitzky <mikerav@MINDSPRING.COM>
To: FOI-L@LISTSERV.SYR.EDU
Date: Sun, September 14, 2003 9:53 am
Subject: [FOI-L] APBnews.com FOIA Request Listing Posted at The Memory
         Hole

APBnews.com FOIA Request Listing Posted at The Memory Hole

by Michael Ravnitzky - mikerav@mindspring.com

The Memory Hole has posted the list of Freedom of Information
Act requests submitted by the defunct online news organization
APBnews.com between 1998 and 2000. Note: there are three
separate pages.

If you have any questions, please feel free to write.

http://www.thememoryhole.org/foi/apbnews-list/







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   Sep > Sep 27

                     Review: Illegitimus Non Carborundum

From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com>
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 23:22:47 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 09:32:09 -0400
Subject: Review: Illegitimus Non Carborundum



Cydonian Imperative
9-27-03

Review: Illegitimus Non Carborundum
by Mac Tonnies

http://www.mactonnies.com/cydonia.html (page 42)

Las Vegas musician Zakas ("Shunk Daddy Grind") has released his
second studio album, "Illegitimus Non Carborundum." Like Zakas'
eye-popping website, "Illegitimus Non Carborundum" is a topical,
irreverent labyrinth. A first listening reveals a paranoid - but
playful - fusion of styles and genres, with a healthy emphasis
on technology run rampant ("Micromachines," which suggests
pending developments in nanotechnology), urban myth ("El
Chupacabra," which boasts a convincing "live" depiction of the
elusive South American blood-sucker) and cosmic censorship
("God's Black Space," about the Face on Mars and our culture's
pervasive instruments of knowledge filtration).

"God's Black Space" - an angry, guitar-driven song - is
interspersed with narration adopted from the Cydonian
Imperative, making it the first musical venture I've had
anything to do with. I'm even credited in the liner notes. So
while I can't help but listen to "Illegitimus Non Carborundum"
without a measure of personal bias, I find myself liking this
weird, uncategorical album for its purely intrinsic qualities.
Zakas's album is unpretentious, raw and ever-so-menacing, an
undistilled spew of sounds and textures like the soundtrack to
some never-produced indie sci-fi movie. Alternately grinding and
breezy, "Illegitimus Non Carborundum" is punctuated by some
well-conceived and engaging instrumentals (i.e., "Monster Surf,"
"Dreamberry"), which highlight the record's predominantly
metallic soundscape.

"Illegitimus Non Carborundum" is one of the quirkier CDs you're
likely to hear in this lifetime. In 18 tracks, Zakas had managed
to create the sonic equivalent to conspiracy-culture's
collective overmind. The result, spontaneous and pregnant with
images, is an aural singularity crafted with precision and even
humor.

"Illegitimus Non Carborundum" can be ordered online from Zakas'
official website, www.aliensurgeon.com.

-end-







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   Sep > Sep 27

                    Re: Giant Triangle UFOs - Richardson

From: Geoff Richardson <geoff@fastdog.karoo.co.uk>
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 14:59:31 +0100
Fwd Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 11:37:42 -0400
Subject: Re: Giant Triangle UFOs - Richardson


>From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby@aol.com>
>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
>Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 18:19:56 EDT
>Subject: Giant Triangle UFOs


Black Triangles are covered in some detail at "The WHY? Files"

Including videos taken in U.K./ Belgium and Russia.

See: "Black Triangles" and "The Saint Petersburg Incident"

http://www.thewhyfiles.co.uk


Geoff Richardson







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                    Re: UFO Crashes Questioned - Balaskas

From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 11:26:37 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
Fwd Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 11:40:46 -0400
Subject: Re: UFO Crashes Questioned - Balaskas


>From: Noel Herbiet <2orpheus6@telkomsa.net>
>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 19:15:26 +0200
>Subject: UFO Crashes Questioned

<snip>

>The seemingly renewed interest in UFO crashes has prompted me to
>ask the members of this list what their personal take is on this
>rather alarming characteristic. I say alarming because if we are
>to believe all that is written, there have been quite a few
>alleged UFO crashes which implies that either these ET folk are
>rotten pilots or that we have a weapon capable of crippling such
>a craft or that in fact, the number of crashes are proportional
>to the number of fly-bys which would imply that they must be
>buzzing our skies a very great deal.

Hi Noel! Hi everyone!

UFO crashes are a very fascinating but controversial part of
ufology.

Fortunately, there are a few well documented UFO crash incidents
which the public is aware of so we do not have to make too many
pre-suppositions or assumptions in trying to determine just what
is happening. Although there is some connection between UFO
crashes and modern human technology (eg. nuclear testing,
powerful radar, etc.), there are some reliable accounts of UFO
crashes occurring prior to mid-20th century. Also, through most
of the Cold War years there were standing orders to intercept
and shoot down UFOs (ref. Major Donald E. Keyhoe), a policy
which was apparently reversed in the 1960s after many pilots
died and aircraft were lost (and possibly because of some other
apparent retaliatory actions by the occupants of the UFOs, such
as the December 1965 blackout in northeastern America). In the
mid-1960s secret safe zones were established in Canada, the U.S.
and other countries where UFOs could land safely without any
physical threat to them.

>Let me firstly say that I do not believe that all reported UFO
>crashes are that of an ET craft as such.

>1. More than likely, a fair proportion of reported "crashes" are
>that of some space debris or such like.

>2. Another possibility is that one of our own experimental
>aircraft has a difficulty on a test flight and ends up crashing.
>That would account for the quick military response and presence
>to recover and protect the wreckage from prying eyes.

I agree that this is indeed the case with many of these
suspected UFO crashes, but not all. Two examples of these are
the crash in Canada of the nuclear powered Soviet spy satellite,
Cosmos 954, in 1978 (which initiated not only the Canadian
'Operation Morning Light' recovery operation but also resulted
in the immediate and direct involvement of a U.S. team of
experts that is always on alert for such crash incidents) and,
according to my annonymous DND source, an emergency landing in
1989 of the then still secret Comanche helicopter being tested
flown from the nearby Boeing plant outside of Ottawa that
created the Carp UFO cover-up.

The disturbing thing is that many such incidents, including a
few UFO crashes, never become public knowledge or the full
details are suppressed. For example, according to Japanese air
traffic control records and other military informants, KAL 007
was not the only airplane to be shot down in 1983. Many Soviet
and U.S. fighters planes were shot down and their pilots killed
that day too. What is even more incredible, is that all the
passengers of the KAL 007 may have survived, including a Greek
hotelier friend from Toronto who was also on that flight.....

>3. Lets assume that a further proportion never actually happened
>and are pure fabrication on the part of some misguided
>individual. That leaves us with a relatively small percentage of
>true UFO crashes. The question now is, why do they crash? In
>some cases there is no reason to think that there was any
>intervention on our part in the malfunction, intended or
>unintended.

>Is it really possible that these alleged ET craft crash through
>nothing else than pilot error? How can this be if they have such
>apparently sophisticated technology.

>Something about these two questions does not feel right. It is
>not what one would expect from an advanced race, both mentally
>and technologically. Surely these ET pilots would have better
>judgement than to crash where they can be retrieved by us and
>their technology apparently reverse engineered.

The more sophisticated the technology, the more often it is
subject to major catastrophic failures, intentional or
accidental. One reason the U.S. military wants to dominate space
is that not only communications but a lot of their hi-tech
equipment and weapons systems can only function properly if
their satellites remain intact and are fully operational. Just
because we believe the occupants of UFOs are more advanced than
we are technologically doesn't mean that they are any less
vulnerable to crashes than we are when moving around in our own
skies.

>In comparison, we have flown to the moon and back with a very
>much more primitive machine so many times during the early
>space program, yet we have never crashed on the moon, have we?
>One thought that does come to mind to explain the high number of
>crashes and that is that maybe, just maybe, they have HUMAN
>pilots and that these crashing UFO are nothing else than our own
>technological creation. I wont take that thought further now, I'll
>leave it to the members to ponder and debate. However I do think
>that I have raised some valid questions in the above. We cannot
>take UFO crashes for granted and just accept them. It one thing
>viewing a UFO in flight, quite another to accept that they crash
>for no apparent reason.

>I look forward to the List member's comments.

<snip>

Actually, our own spacecraft have crashed on the Moon many
times. The first time was by the unmanned Soviet spaceprobe Luna
2 in 1959. Later other unmanned Soviet and U.S. spaceprobes and
lunar landers, including the Ranger and Surveyor series of lunar
probes, crashed on the Moon.

During the Apollo years, the SIVB upper stage of many of the
powerful Saturn V rockets that sent the U.S. astronauts to the
surface of the Moon also crashed there too. After the two Moon
walkers joined up with the third astronaut in lunar orbit, they
jettisoned and crashed the upper stage of the LEM, which they no
longer needed for the return trip home, on the Moon too.

In more recent times (1998), NASA's unmanned Lunar Prospector
too was intentionally crashed into a large crater at one of the
poles where sunlight never reaches in the hope of kicking up
some frozen water that scientists suspected was there from
Clementine, a U.S. defense probe that was also sent to the Moon
in 1994 (but did not crash).


Nick Balaskas








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   Sep > Sep 27

                    Re: Giant Triangle UFOs - Richardson

From: Geoff Richardson <geoff@fastdog.karoo.co.uk>
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 14:59:31 +0100
Fwd Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 11:37:42 -0400
Subject: Re: Giant Triangle UFOs - Richardson


>From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby@aol.com>
>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
>Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 18:19:56 EDT
>Subject: Giant Triangle UFOs


Black Triangles are covered in some detail at "The WHY? Files"

Including videos taken in U.K./ Belgium and Russia.

See: "Black Triangles" and "The Saint Petersburg Incident"

http://www.thewhyfiles.co.uk


Geoff Richardson







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   Sep > Sep 27

                    Re: UFO Crashes Questioned - Balaskas

From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 11:26:37 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
Fwd Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 11:40:46 -0400
Subject: Re: UFO Crashes Questioned - Balaskas


>From: Noel Herbiet <2orpheus6@telkomsa.net>
>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 19:15:26 +0200
>Subject: UFO Crashes Questioned

<snip>

>The seemingly renewed interest in UFO crashes has prompted me to
>ask the members of this list what their personal take is on this
>rather alarming characteristic. I say alarming because if we are
>to believe all that is written, there have been quite a few
>alleged UFO crashes which implies that either these ET folk are
>rotten pilots or that we have a weapon capable of crippling such
>a craft or that in fact, the number of crashes are proportional
>to the number of fly-bys which would imply that they must be
>buzzing our skies a very great deal.

Hi Noel! Hi everyone!

UFO crashes are a very fascinating but controversial part of
ufology.

Fortunately, there are a few well documented UFO crash incidents
which the public is aware of so we do not have to make too many
pre-suppositions or assumptions in trying to determine just what
is happening. Although there is some connection between UFO
crashes and modern human technology (eg. nuclear testing,
powerful radar, etc.), there are some reliable accounts of UFO
crashes occurring prior to mid-20th century. Also, through most
of the Cold War years there were standing orders to intercept
and shoot down UFOs (ref. Major Donald E. Keyhoe), a policy
which was apparently reversed in the 1960s after many pilots
died and aircraft were lost (and possibly because of some other
apparent retaliatory actions by the occupants of the UFOs, such
as the December 1965 blackout in northeastern America). In the
mid-1960s secret safe zones were established in Canada, the U.S.
and other countries where UFOs could land safely without any
physical threat to them.

>Let me firstly say that I do not believe that all reported UFO
>crashes are that of an ET craft as such.

>1. More than likely, a fair proportion of reported "crashes" are
>that of some space debris or such like.

>2. Another possibility is that one of our own experimental
>aircraft has a difficulty on a test flight and ends up crashing.
>That would account for the quick military response and presence
>to recover and protect the wreckage from prying eyes.

I agree that this is indeed the case with many of these
suspected UFO crashes, but not all. Two examples of these are
the crash in Canada of the nuclear powered Soviet spy satellite,
Cosmos 954, in 1978 (which initiated not only the Canadian
'Operation Morning Light' recovery operation but also resulted
in the immediate and direct involvement of a U.S. team of
experts that is always on alert for such crash incidents) and,
according to my annonymous DND source, an emergency landing in
1989 of the then still secret Comanche helicopter being tested
flown from the nearby Boeing plant outside of Ottawa that
created the Carp UFO cover-up.

The disturbing thing is that many such incidents, including a
few UFO crashes, never become public knowledge or the full
details are suppressed. For example, according to Japanese air
traffic control records and other military informants, KAL 007
was not the only airplane to be shot down in 1983. Many Soviet
and U.S. fighters planes were shot down and their pilots killed
that day too. What is even more incredible, is that all the
passengers of the KAL 007 may have survived, including a Greek
hotelier friend from Toronto who was also on that flight.....

>3. Lets assume that a further proportion never actually happened
>and are pure fabrication on the part of some misguided
>individual. That leaves us with a relatively small percentage of
>true UFO crashes. The question now is, why do they crash? In
>some cases there is no reason to think that there was any
>intervention on our part in the malfunction, intended or
>unintended.

>Is it really possible that these alleged ET craft crash through
>nothing else than pilot error? How can this be if they have such
>apparently sophisticated technology.

>Something about these two questions does not feel right. It is
>not what one would expect from an advanced race, both mentally
>and technologically. Surely these ET pilots would have better
>judgement than to crash where they can be retrieved by us and
>their technology apparently reverse engineered.

The more sophisticated the technology, the more often it is
subject to major catastrophic failures, intentional or
accidental. One reason the U.S. military wants to dominate space
is that not only communications but a lot of their hi-tech
equipment and weapons systems can only function properly if
their satellites remain intact and are fully operational. Just
because we believe the occupants of UFOs are more advanced than
we are technologically doesn't mean that they are any less
vulnerable to crashes than we are when moving around in our own
skies.

>In comparison, we have flown to the moon and back with a very
>much more primitive machine so many times during the early
>space program, yet we have never crashed on the moon, have we?
>One thought that does come to mind to explain the high number of
>crashes and that is that maybe, just maybe, they have HUMAN
>pilots and that these crashing UFO are nothing else than our own
>technological creation. I wont take that thought further now, I'll
>leave it to the members to ponder and debate. However I do think
>that I have raised some valid questions in the above. We cannot
>take UFO crashes for granted and just accept them. It one thing
>viewing a UFO in flight, quite another to accept that they crash
>for no apparent reason.

>I look forward to the List member's comments.

<snip>

Actually, our own spacecraft have crashed on the Moon many
times. The first time was by the unmanned Soviet spaceprobe Luna
2 in 1959. Later other unmanned Soviet and U.S. spaceprobes and
lunar landers, including the Ranger and Surveyor series of lunar
probes, crashed on the Moon.

During the Apollo years, the SIVB upper stage of many of the
powerful Saturn V rockets that sent the U.S. astronauts to the
surface of the Moon also crashed there too. After the two Moon
walkers joined up with the third astronaut in lunar orbit, they
jettisoned and crashed the upper stage of the LEM, which they no
longer needed for the return trip home, on the Moon too.

In more recent times (1998), NASA's unmanned Lunar Prospector
too was intentionally crashed into a large crater at one of the
poles where sunlight never reaches in the hope of kicking up
some frozen water that scientists suspected was there from
Clementine, a U.S. defense probe that was also sent to the Moon
in 1994 (but did not crash).


Nick Balaskas








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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Sep > Sep 27

                    Re: UFO Crashes Questioned - Hamilton

From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22@fastmail.fm>
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 09:31:03 -0800
Fwd Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 18:00:24 -0400
Subject: Re: UFO Crashes Questioned - Hamilton


>From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 11:26:37 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
>Subject: Re: UFO Crashes Questioned

>>From: Noel Herbiet <2orpheus6@telkomsa.net>
>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>>Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 19:15:26 +0200
>>Subject: UFO Crashes Questioned

><snip>

>>The seemingly renewed interest in UFO crashes has prompted me to
>>ask the members of this list what their personal take is on this
>>rather alarming characteristic. I say alarming because if we are
>>to believe all that is written, there have been quite a few
>>alleged UFO crashes which implies that either these ET folk are
>>rotten pilots or that we have a weapon capable of crippling such
>>a craft or that in fact, the number of crashes are proportional
>>to the number of fly-bys which would imply that they must be
>>buzzing our skies a very great deal.

>UFO crashes are a very fascinating but controversial part of
>ufology.

>Fortunately, there are a few well documented UFO crash incidents
>which the public is aware of so we do not have to make too many
>pre-suppositions or assumptions in trying to determine just what
>is happening. Although there is some connection between UFO
>crashes and modern human technology (eg. nuclear testing,
>powerful radar, etc.), there are some reliable accounts of UFO
>crashes occurring prior to mid-20th century. Also, through most
>of the Cold War years there were standing orders to intercept
>and shoot down UFOs (ref. Major Donald E. Keyhoe), a policy
>which was apparently reversed in the 1960s after many pilots
>died and aircraft were lost (and possibly because of some other
>apparent retaliatory actions by the occupants of the UFOs, such
>as the December 1965 blackout in northeastern America). In the
>mid-1960s secret safe zones were established in Canada, the U.S.
>and other countries where UFOs could land safely without any
>physical threat to them.

>>Let me firstly say that I do not believe that all reported UFO
>>crashes are that of an ET craft as such.

>>1. More than likely, a fair proportion of reported "crashes" are
>>that of some space debris or such like.

>>2. Another possibility is that one of our own experimental
>>aircraft has a difficulty on a test flight and ends up crashing.
>>That would account for the quick military response and presence
>>to recover and protect the wreckage from prying eyes.

>I agree that this is indeed the case with many of these
>suspected UFO crashes, but not all. Two examples of these are
>the crash in Canada of the nuclear powered Soviet spy satellite,
>Cosmos 954, in 1978 (which initiated not only the Canadian
>'Operation Morning Light' recovery operation but also resulted
>in the immediate and direct involvement of a U.S. team of
>experts that is always on alert for such crash incidents) and,
>according to my annonymous DND source, an emergency landing in
>1989 of the then still secret Comanche helicopter being tested
>flown from the nearby Boeing plant outside of Ottawa that
>created the Carp UFO cover-up.

>The disturbing thing is that many such incidents, including a
>few UFO crashes, never become public knowledge or the full
>details are suppressed. For example, according to Japanese air
>traffic control records and other military informants, KAL 007
>was not the only airplane to be shot down in 1983. Many Soviet
>and U.S. fighters planes were shot down and their pilots killed
>that day too. What is even more incredible, is that all the
>passengers of the KAL 007 may have survived, including a Greek
>hotelier friend from Toronto who was also on that flight.....

>>3. Lets assume that a further proportion never actually happened
>>and are pure fabrication on the part of some misguided
>>individual. That leaves us with a relatively small percentage of
>>true UFO crashes. The question now is, why do they crash? In
>>some cases there is no reason to think that there was any
>>intervention on our part in the malfunction, intended or
>>unintended.
>
>>Is it really possible that these alleged ET craft crash through
>>nothing else than pilot error? How can this be if they have such
>>apparently sophisticated technology.

>>Something about these two questions does not feel right. It is
>>not what one would expect from an advanced race, both mentally
>>and technologically. Surely these ET pilots would have better
>>judgement than to crash where they can be retrieved by us and
>>their technology apparently reverse engineered.

>The more sophisticated the technology, the more often it is
>subject to major catastrophic failures, intentional or
>accidental. One reason the U.S. military wants to dominate space
>is that not only communications but a lot of their hi-tech
>equipment and weapons systems can only function properly if
>their satellites remain intact and are fully operational. Just
>because we believe the occupants of UFOs are more advanced than
>we are technologically doesn't mean that they are any less
>vulnerable to crashes than we are when moving around in our own
>skies.

Nick, I wrote about this in my first book about 13 years ago.
Some find it hard to believe that a spacecraft flown by
technically advanced races could be prone to interference or
malfunction. A simple review of our own air crashes involving
technically sophisticated aircraft such a the F-16 or B-1B
bomber refutes that idea. In fact there is support for the idea
that highly complicated electronic systems can be prone to
malfunction when subjected to radio, radar, or microwave
emissions.

Random noise can occur in transistors and other semiconductor
devices. Any electric device which receives electromagnetic
radiation will pick up random noise as well as signals.

An article in the Los Angeles Times (11/9/1987) stated that
routine radio wavs can knock the Army's most advaanced battle
transport helicopters out of the sky.

An electromagnetic craft such as a flying saucer may also
be susceptible to EM radiation.







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   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Sep > Sep 27

                     Re: Mysterious 1959 Incident - Hall

From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 18:14:00 +0000
Fwd Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 18:04:59 -0400
Subject: Re: Mysterious 1959 Incident - Hall


>From: Michael Christol <spachopr@bellsouth.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 20:07:52 -0500
>Subject: Re: Mysterious 1959 Incident

>>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
>>To: ufoupdates@sympatico.ca
>>Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 15:13:07 +0000
>>Subject: Re: Mysterious 1959 Incident

>>Kenny,

>>This case was investigated for NICAP by the late Bill Leet of
>>Lexington, Ky., and extensively reported by NICAP at the time. A
>>very solid case.

>>See pp. 138, 151 of The UFO Evidence (1964) where it is briefly
>>mentioned. The full report would have been in the U.F.O.
>>Investigator for that time period.

>>- Dick

>>(Richard Hall, former Assistant Director, NICAP)

>Dick,

>In July or August, 1967, I, along with Jack Murphree, a local
>Radio DJ, and Ralph Dorris, and Engineer for General Electric,
>interviewed a Mr. Darrel Whitehouse, of RR?, Philpot, Ky.

>Mr. Whitehouse advised us that he heard a sound of squeeling
>tires on the road outside his house, so he went out to
>investigate. The local teens used the straight stretch in front
>of his house as a favorite place to drag race.

>When he walked outside, he didn't see anything, so he sat to
>smoke a cigarette. As he was setting there looking to his right,
>down the road, he heard a "pop" and turned to his left, looking
>diagonally toward his soybean field. He saw what appeared to be
>"a barrel" shaped object rising vertically from his soybean
>field. He said: "the object went straight up about a hundred
>feet and then sort of fell over, level with the ground, and flew
>off toward the north, toward Indiana."

>He said he: "didn't hear no sound at all other than the pop."

>When he went out to his bean field the next day, he found a
>circle approximately 30 feet in diameter, which was devoid of
>any live plants. The ground within the circle was dry and dusty.
>The plants were brown and dry, but not burned as a fire would.

>The plants outside the circle were normal. Ralph Dorris flew
>over the field in a small plane and photographed the area.

>The photos showed a distinctive "V" shaped trail leading to the
>north for about 30 yards, where the tops of the plants were also
>browned, although the rest of the plants were fine, as we later
>observed.

>We took several photographs with a black and white Polorid
>Swinger camera, but I only have one of those photos left, and it
>has faded. You can still see the circle, but I wish still today,
>I had used my Brownie Kodac color film camera.

>I do not know what happened to the other photos. Jack and Ralph
>may have taken them, but, both are now deceased, to the best of
>my knowledge. I know Ralph is, but Jack moved to Hawaii and I
>attempted to locate him in 1993 when I went there on vacation
>with my wife, but had no luck. I went to the store he told me he
>was working at, but he had been gone from there for some time
>and they had no address for him.

>I took samples of the bean plants and the soil within and
>without the circle and sent them to NICAP.

>I received a reply from NICAP advising me that they had received
>the plants and would contact Mr. Whitehouse. I did not talk to
>Mr. Whitehouse after I received the letter. So, I do not know if
>they actually contacted him or not.

>I was hoping you might have access to the files of that time and
>could advise me.


Mike,

The NICAP sighting files are archived at the Center for UFO
Studies in Chicago. As I understand it, they are accessible by
appointment.

Since I am currently working on a major new study and re-
evaluation of the 1966-67 sighting wave for the Fund for UFO
Research, I would be very interested if you could pin down the
date of this case. I have some NICAP files from that period but
that was a very big year and a date would help, even if within a
week or so.

 - Dick

www.hallrichard.com







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   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Sep > Sep 27

                     AA Crash Site Assistance Requested

From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman@psln.com>
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 13:21:31 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 18:19:28 -0400
Subject: AA Crash Site Assistance Requested


EBK, List,

From time to time I've posted Alien Autopsy related information
to UpDates as an ongoing attempt to keep this amazing footage in
the public eye and on the minds of the researchers who reside
here.

I'm not a ufologist, but an investigative reporter and I write on
many subjects other than UFOs:

http://www.sonomacountyfreepress.com/reaction/reactindx.html

But the AA piqued my interest eight years ago and I've been
researching and investigating it ever since.

There is now overwhelming evidence that my brother and I have
found the crash site described by the cameraman.

The XRD identification of cristobalite as the strange material
covering the site should be all the proof required but there is
more, so much more evidence at the site which could be analyzed
and subjected to forensic examination. This would require a team
of researchers, similar to the crop-circle investigative groups.
There are more than enough talented and scientifically trained
persons on this list to accomplish this task. If that can't
happen, I'd at least like to take Wendy or other researchers who
live in the area to the site so they can see how unusual and
wondrous it is.


Ed






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   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Sep > Sep 27

                     Re: Mysterious 1959 Incident - Hall

From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 18:07:13 +0000
Fwd Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 18:02:47 -0400
Subject: Re: Mysterious 1959 Incident - Hall


>From: Sean Jones <tedric@tedric.demon.co.uk>
>Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 22:51:27 +0100
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Subject: Re: Mysterious 1959 Incident

>>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
>>To: ufoupdates@sympatico.ca
>>Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 15:13:07 +0000
>>Subject: Re: Mysterious 1959 Incident

>Evening Dick, Errol, All

>Something caught my eye.

>>- Dick

>>(Richard Hall, former Assistant Director, NICAP)

>Dick, or Richard if you prefer.

>Do you find yourself wishing for the "good old days" of NICAP,
>or do you think Ufology has moved forward in any sense?

Many times, Sean! Those were the "good old days". Yes, Ufology
has moved forward and acquired a much larger database, but it
also has regressed in the quality of research. Too much
uncontrolled wild speculation and unscientific behavior.







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   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Sep > Sep 27

                    Re: UFO Crashes Questioned - Hamilton

From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22@fastmail.fm>
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 09:31:03 -0800
Fwd Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 18:00:24 -0400
Subject: Re: UFO Crashes Questioned - Hamilton


>From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 11:26:37 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
>Subject: Re: UFO Crashes Questioned

>>From: Noel Herbiet <2orpheus6@telkomsa.net>
>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>>Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 19:15:26 +0200
>>Subject: UFO Crashes Questioned

><snip>

>>The seemingly renewed interest in UFO crashes has prompted me to
>>ask the members of this list what their personal take is on this
>>rather alarming characteristic. I say alarming because if we are
>>to believe all that is written, there have been quite a few
>>alleged UFO crashes which implies that either these ET folk are
>>rotten pilots or that we have a weapon capable of crippling such
>>a craft or that in fact, the number of crashes are proportional
>>to the number of fly-bys which would imply that they must be
>>buzzing our skies a very great deal.

>UFO crashes are a very fascinating but controversial part of
>ufology.

>Fortunately, there are a few well documented UFO crash incidents
>which the public is aware of so we do not have to make too many
>pre-suppositions or assumptions in trying to determine just what
>is happening. Although there is some connection between UFO
>crashes and modern human technology (eg. nuclear testing,
>powerful radar, etc.), there are some reliable accounts of UFO
>crashes occurring prior to mid-20th century. Also, through most
>of the Cold War years there were standing orders to intercept
>and shoot down UFOs (ref. Major Donald E. Keyhoe), a policy
>which was apparently reversed in the 1960s after many pilots
>died and aircraft were lost (and possibly because of some other
>apparent retaliatory actions by the occupants of the UFOs, such
>as the December 1965 blackout in northeastern America). In the
>mid-1960s secret safe zones were established in Canada, the U.S.
>and other countries where UFOs could land safely without any
>physical threat to them.

>>Let me firstly say that I do not believe that all reported UFO
>>crashes are that of an ET craft as such.

>>1. More than likely, a fair proportion of reported "crashes" are
>>that of some space debris or such like.

>>2. Another possibility is that one of our own experimental
>>aircraft has a difficulty on a test flight and ends up crashing.
>>That would account for the quick military response and presence
>>to recover and protect the wreckage from prying eyes.

>I agree that this is indeed the case with many of these
>suspected UFO crashes, but not all. Two examples of these are
>the crash in Canada of the nuclear powered Soviet spy satellite,
>Cosmos 954, in 1978 (which initiated not only the Canadian
>'Operation Morning Light' recovery operation but also resulted
>in the immediate and direct involvement of a U.S. team of
>experts that is always on alert for such crash incidents) and,
>according to my annonymous DND source, an emergency landing in
>1989 of the then still secret Comanche helicopter being tested
>flown from the nearby Boeing plant outside of Ottawa that
>created the Carp UFO cover-up.

>The disturbing thing is that many such incidents, including a
>few UFO crashes, never become public knowledge or the full
>details are suppressed. For example, according to Japanese air
>traffic control records and other military informants, KAL 007
>was not the only airplane to be shot down in 1983. Many Soviet
>and U.S. fighters planes were shot down and their pilots killed
>that day too. What is even more incredible, is that all the
>passengers of the KAL 007 may have survived, including a Greek
>hotelier friend from Toronto who was also on that flight.....

>>3. Lets assume that a further proportion never actually happened
>>and are pure fabrication on the part of some misguided
>>individual. That leaves us with a relatively small percentage of
>>true UFO crashes. The question now is, why do they crash? In
>>some cases there is no reason to think that there was any
>>intervention on our part in the malfunction, intended or
>>unintended.
>
>>Is it really possible that these alleged ET craft crash through
>>nothing else than pilot error? How can this be if they have such
>>apparently sophisticated technology.

>>Something about these two questions does not feel right. It is
>>not what one would expect from an advanced race, both mentally
>>and technologically. Surely these ET pilots would have better
>>judgement than to crash where they can be retrieved by us and
>>their technology apparently reverse engineered.

>The more sophisticated the technology, the more often it is
>subject to major catastrophic failures, intentional or
>accidental. One reason the U.S. military wants to dominate space
>is that not only communications but a lot of their hi-tech
>equipment and weapons systems can only function properly if
>their satellites remain intact and are fully operational. Just
>because we believe the occupants of UFOs are more advanced than
>we are technologically doesn't mean that they are any less
>vulnerable to crashes than we are when moving around in our own
>skies.

Nick, I wrote about this in my first book about 13 years ago.
Some find it hard to believe that a spacecraft flown by
technically advanced races could be prone to interference or
malfunction. A simple review of our own air crashes involving
technically sophisticated aircraft such a the F-16 or B-1B
bomber refutes that idea. In fact there is support for the idea
that highly complicated electronic systems can be prone to
malfunction when subjected to radio, radar, or microwave
emissions.

Random noise can occur in transistors and other semiconductor
devices. Any electric device which receives electromagnetic
radiation will pick up random noise as well as signals.

An article in the Los Angeles Times (11/9/1987) stated that
routine radio wavs can knock the Army's most advaanced battle
transport helicopters out of the sky.

An electromagnetic craft such as a flying saucer may also
be susceptible to EM radiation.







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Sep > Sep 27

                    Re: UFO Crashes Questioned - Balaskas

From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 11:26:37 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
Fwd Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 11:40:46 -0400
Subject: Re: UFO Crashes Questioned - Balaskas


>From: Noel Herbiet <2orpheus6@telkomsa.net>
>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 19:15:26 +0200
>Subject: UFO Crashes Questioned

<snip>

>The seemingly renewed interest in UFO crashes has prompted me to
>ask the members of this list what their personal take is on this
>rather alarming characteristic. I say alarming because if we are
>to believe all that is written, there have been quite a few
>alleged UFO crashes which implies that either these ET folk are
>rotten pilots or that we have a weapon capable of crippling such
>a craft or that in fact, the number of crashes are proportional
>to the number of fly-bys which would imply that they must be
>buzzing our skies a very great deal.

Hi Noel! Hi everyone!

UFO crashes are a very fascinating but controversial part of
ufology.

Fortunately, there are a few well documented UFO crash incidents
which the public is aware of so we do not have to make too many
pre-suppositions or assumptions in trying to determine just what
is happening. Although there is some connection between UFO
crashes and modern human technology (eg. nuclear testing,
powerful radar, etc.), there are some reliable accounts of UFO
crashes occurring prior to mid-20th century. Also, through most
of the Cold War years there were standing orders to intercept
and shoot down UFOs (ref. Major Donald E. Keyhoe), a policy
which was apparently reversed in the 1960s after many pilots
died and aircraft were lost (and possibly because of some other
apparent retaliatory actions by the occupants of the UFOs, such
as the December 1965 blackout in northeastern America). In the
mid-1960s secret safe zones were established in Canada, the U.S.
and other countries where UFOs could land safely without any
physical threat to them.

>Let me firstly say that I do not believe that all reported UFO
>crashes are that of an ET craft as such.

>1. More than likely, a fair proportion of reported "crashes" are
>that of some space debris or such like.

>2. Another possibility is that one of our own experimental
>aircraft has a difficulty on a test flight and ends up crashing.
>That would account for the quick military response and presence
>to recover and protect the wreckage from prying eyes.

I agree that this is indeed the case with many of these
suspected UFO crashes, but not all. Two examples of these are
the crash in Canada of the nuclear powered Soviet spy satellite,
Cosmos 954, in 1978 (which initiated not only the Canadian
'Operation Morning Light' recovery operation but also resulted
in the immediate and direct involvement of a U.S. team of
experts that is always on alert for such crash incidents) and,
according to my annonymous DND source, an emergency landing in
1989 of the then still secret Comanche helicopter being tested
flown from the nearby Boeing plant outside of Ottawa that
created the Carp UFO cover-up.

The disturbing thing is that many such incidents, including a
few UFO crashes, never become public knowledge or the full
details are suppressed. For example, according to Japanese air
traffic control records and other military informants, KAL 007
was not the only airplane to be shot down in 1983. Many Soviet
and U.S. fighters planes were shot down and their pilots killed
that day too. What is even more incredible, is that all the
passengers of the KAL 007 may have survived, including a Greek
hotelier friend from Toronto who was also on that flight.....

>3. Lets assume that a further proportion never actually happened
>and are pure fabrication on the part of some misguided
>individual. That leaves us with a relatively small percentage of
>true UFO crashes. The question now is, why do they crash? In
>some cases there is no reason to think that there was any
>intervention on our part in the malfunction, intended or
>unintended.

>Is it really possible that these alleged ET craft crash through
>nothing else than pilot error? How can this be if they have such
>apparently sophisticated technology.

>Something about these two questions does not feel right. It is
>not what one would expect from an advanced race, both mentally
>and technologically. Surely these ET pilots would have better
>judgement than to crash where they can be retrieved by us and
>their technology apparently reverse engineered.

The more sophisticated the technology, the more often it is
subject to major catastrophic failures, intentional or
accidental. One reason the U.S. military wants to dominate space
is that not only communications but a lot of their hi-tech
equipment and weapons systems can only function properly if
their satellites remain intact and are fully operational. Just
because we believe the occupants of UFOs are more advanced than
we are technologically doesn't mean that they are any less
vulnerable to crashes than we are when moving around in our own
skies.

>In comparison, we have flown to the moon and back with a very
>much more primitive machine so many times during the early
>space program, yet we have never crashed on the moon, have we?
>One thought that does come to mind to explain the high number of
>crashes and that is that maybe, just maybe, they have HUMAN
>pilots and that these crashing UFO are nothing else than our own
>technological creation. I wont take that thought further now, I'll
>leave it to the members to ponder and debate. However I do think
>that I have raised some valid questions in the above. We cannot
>take UFO crashes for granted and just accept them. It one thing
>viewing a UFO in flight, quite another to accept that they crash
>for no apparent reason.

>I look forward to the List member's comments.

<snip>

Actually, our own spacecraft have crashed on the Moon many
times. The first time was by the unmanned Soviet spaceprobe Luna
2 in 1959. Later other unmanned Soviet and U.S. spaceprobes and
lunar landers, including the Ranger and Surveyor series of lunar
probes, crashed on the Moon.

During the Apollo years, the SIVB upper stage of many of the
powerful Saturn V rockets that sent the U.S. astronauts to the
surface of the Moon also crashed there too. After the two Moon
walkers joined up with the third astronaut in lunar orbit, they
jettisoned and crashed the upper stage of the LEM, which they no
longer needed for the return trip home, on the Moon too.

In more recent times (1998), NASA's unmanned Lunar Prospector
too was intentionally crashed into a large crater at one of the
poles where sunlight never reaches in the hope of kicking up
some frozen water that scientists suspected was there from
Clementine, a U.S. defense probe that was also sent to the Moon
in 1994 (but did not crash).


Nick Balaskas








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   Sep > Sep 27

                     Re: Mysterious 1959 Incident - Hall

From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 18:14:00 +0000
Fwd Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 18:04:59 -0400
Subject: Re: Mysterious 1959 Incident - Hall


>From: Michael Christol <spachopr@bellsouth.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 20:07:52 -0500
>Subject: Re: Mysterious 1959 Incident

>>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
>>To: ufoupdates@sympatico.ca
>>Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 15:13:07 +0000
>>Subject: Re: Mysterious 1959 Incident

>>Kenny,

>>This case was investigated for NICAP by the late Bill Leet of
>>Lexington, Ky., and extensively reported by NICAP at the time. A
>>very solid case.

>>See pp. 138, 151 of The UFO Evidence (1964) where it is briefly
>>mentioned. The full report would have been in the U.F.O.
>>Investigator for that time period.

>>- Dick

>>(Richard Hall, former Assistant Director, NICAP)

>Dick,

>In July or August, 1967, I, along with Jack Murphree, a local
>Radio DJ, and Ralph Dorris, and Engineer for General Electric,
>interviewed a Mr. Darrel Whitehouse, of RR?, Philpot, Ky.

>Mr. Whitehouse advised us that he heard a sound of squeeling
>tires on the road outside his house, so he went out to
>investigate. The local teens used the straight stretch in front
>of his house as a favorite place to drag race.

>When he walked outside, he didn't see anything, so he sat to
>smoke a cigarette. As he was setting there looking to his right,
>down the road, he heard a "pop" and turned to his left, looking
>diagonally toward his soybean field. He saw what appeared to be
>"a barrel" shaped object rising vertically from his soybean
>field. He said: "the object went straight up about a hundred
>feet and then sort of fell over, level with the ground, and flew
>off toward the north, toward Indiana."

>He said he: "didn't hear no sound at all other than the pop."

>When he went out to his bean field the next day, he found a
>circle approximately 30 feet in diameter, which was devoid of
>any live plants. The ground within the circle was dry and dusty.
>The plants were brown and dry, but not burned as a fire would.

>The plants outside the circle were normal. Ralph Dorris flew
>over the field in a small plane and photographed the area.

>The photos showed a distinctive "V" shaped trail leading to the
>north for about 30 yards, where the tops of the plants were also
>browned, although the rest of the plants were fine, as we later
>observed.

>We took several photographs with a black and white Polorid
>Swinger camera, but I only have one of those photos left, and it
>has faded. You can still see the circle, but I wish still today,
>I had used my Brownie Kodac color film camera.

>I do not know what happened to the other photos. Jack and Ralph
>may have taken them, but, both are now deceased, to the best of
>my knowledge. I know Ralph is, but Jack moved to Hawaii and I
>attempted to locate him in 1993 when I went there on vacation
>with my wife, but had no luck. I went to the store he told me he
>was working at, but he had been gone from there for some time
>and they had no address for him.

>I took samples of the bean plants and the soil within and
>without the circle and sent them to NICAP.

>I received a reply from NICAP advising me that they had received
>the plants and would contact Mr. Whitehouse. I did not talk to
>Mr. Whitehouse after I received the letter. So, I do not know if
>they actually contacted him or not.

>I was hoping you might have access to the files of that time and
>could advise me.


Mike,

The NICAP sighting files are archived at the Center for UFO
Studies in Chicago. As I understand it, they are accessible by
appointment.

Since I am currently working on a major new study and re-
evaluation of the 1966-67 sighting wave for the Fund for UFO
Research, I would be very interested if you could pin down the
date of this case. I have some NICAP files from that period but
that was a very big year and a date would help, even if within a
week or so.

 - Dick

www.hallrichard.com







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   Sep > Sep 27

                    Has There Ever Been An 'Overflight'?

From: Daniel Guenther <daniel_g@t-online.de>
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 23:26:57 +0200
Fwd Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 18:21:47 -0400
Subject: Has There Ever Been An 'Overflight'?


Hi List!

I would like to address this issue to those database
'specialists' like Larry Hatch etc.

My question is, has there ever been an instance of a UFO case
for example in France, where a witness describes something that
is - also for example - left-rotating on its own axis, hovering
above a house, with a green light on top and a red light at the
bottom and then _another_ case from Canada (for example), where
exactly the same was observed - only a few minutes or hours
later - a close object, rotating left, with a green light on top
and a red light at the bottom, etc......

Of course, both witnesses don't know each other.

Has there ever been an occurrence of this?


Daniel G.

--
Just the Cases - UFO sightings database
http://cs.tu-berlin.de/~thomasg/ufodb.htm









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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Sep > Sep 28

                    Re: UFO Crashes Questioned - Jacobson

From: Eric Jacobson <ejacobson74@comcast.net>
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 21:32:59 -0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 09:14:39 -0400
Subject: Re: UFO Crashes Questioned - Jacobson


>From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22@fastmail.fm>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 09:31:03 -0800
>Subject: Re: UFO Crashes Questioned

>>From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 11:26:37 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
>>Subject: Re: UFO Crashes Questioned

>>>From: Noel Herbiet <2orpheus6@telkomsa.net>
>>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>>>Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 19:15:26 +0200
>>>Subject: UFO Crashes Questioned

>><snip>

>>>The seemingly renewed interest in UFO crashes has prompted me to
>>>ask the members of this list what their personal take is on this
>>>rather alarming characteristic. I say alarming because if we are
>>>to believe all that is written, there have been quite a few
>>>alleged UFO crashes which implies that either these ET folk are
>>>rotten pilots or that we have a weapon capable of crippling such
>>>a craft or that in fact, the number of crashes are proportional
>>>to the number of fly-bys which would imply that they must be
>>>buzzing our skies a very great deal.

>>Fortunately, there are a few well documented UFO crash incidents
>>which the public is aware of so we do not have to make too many
>>pre-suppositions or assumptions in trying to determine just what
>>is happening. Although there is some connection between UFO
>>crashes and modern human technology (eg. nuclear testing,
>>powerful radar, etc.), there are some reliable accounts of UFO
>>crashes occurring prior to mid-20th century.

>>In the
>>mid-1960s secret safe zones were established in Canada, the U.S.
>>and other countries where UFOs could land safely without any
>>physical threat to them.


>>>3. Lets assume that a further proportion never actually happened
>>>and are pure fabrication on the part of some misguided
>>>individual. That leaves us with a relatively small percentage of
>>>true UFO crashes.

>>>Something about these two questions does not feel right. It is
>>>not what one would expect from an advanced race, both mentally
>>>and technologically. Surely these ET pilots would have better
>>>judgement than to crash where they can be retrieved by us and
>>>their technology apparently reverse engineered.

>Some find it hard to believe that a spacecraft flown by
>technically advanced races could be prone to interference or
>malfunction.

>Random noise can occur in transistors and other semiconductor
>devices. Any electric device which receives electromagnetic
>radiation will pick up random noise as well as signals.

>An article in the Los Angeles Times (11/9/1987) stated that
>routine radio wavs can knock the Army's most advaanced battle
>transport helicopters out of the sky.

Please guys, what are these "well documented UFO crashes?" I am
unaware of any. The most extensively investigated case - Roswell
- is far from conclusive. Not to mention where is the physical
evidence of all these crashes?. Or do you believe that they only
crash in places where the US can go and retrieve them before
anyone else gets any evidence? That really strains credulity.

Not that I don't believe there are ET craft in the Earth's
atmosphere. That actually is well documented.

The idea that we can compare their craft to ours, to
'transistors and semiconductor devices' and 'EM' fields is
exactly like some pre-industrial natives somewhere seeing a
stealth bomber fly over and thinking that it must work like a
boomerang.

Why would you supposed that a technology which might be
thousands or tens of thousands years ahead of our own could be
understood in terms of our primitive devices?

Anthromorphocentrism.


Eric Jacobson







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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Sep > Sep 28

                    Re: UFO Crashes Questioned - Friedman

From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys@rogers.com>
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 22:56:13 -0300
Fwd Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 09:19:19 -0400
Subject: Re: UFO Crashes Questioned - Friedman


>From: Colin Stevenson <colin@c2k2.fsworld.co.uk>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 20:03:12 +0100
>Subject: Re: UFO Crashes Questioned

>>From: Noel Herbiet <2orpheus6@telkomsa.net>
>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>>Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 19:15:26 +0200
>>Subject: UFO Crashes Questioned

>>The seemingly renewed interest in UFO crashes has prompted me to
>>ask the members of this list what their personal take is on this
>>rather alarming characteristic. I say alarming because if we are
>>to believe all that is written, there have been quite a few
>>alleged UFO crashes which implies that either these ET folk are
>>rotten pilots or that we have a weapon capable of crippling such
>>a craft or that in fact, the number of crashes are proportional
>>to the number of fly-bys which would imply that they must be
>>buzzing our skies a very great deal.

What is the meaning of " renewed interest" in UFO crashes? When
had it ebbed since 'The Roswell Incident' was published in
1980??

What is the connection between interest and number of crashes?
Len Stringfield had years ago compiled a listing of about 60
crash stories he had collected. Very few had been investigated.
Since we don't have travel or sortie schedules, and we don't
know how many crashes there have been, how can we say whether
crashes are frequent or rare? There have been good solid
observations of truly huge" mother ships" (.6-1.2 miles long).
Our aircraft carriers which are much smaller can carry 75
airplanes.

>>Let me firstly say that I do not believe that all reported UFO
>>crashes are that of an ET craft as such.

>>1. More than likely, a fair proportion of reported "crashes" are
>>that of some space debris or such like.

Why is this more or less likely? What data is there? Certainly
we know there are many reentering spacecraft of Earthly origin
such as Cosmos 954. But did anybody ever call that a flying
saucer crash?

>>2. Another possibility is that one of our own experimental
>>aircraft has a difficulty on a test flight and ends up crashing.
>>That would account for the quick military response and presence
>>to recover and protect the wreckage from prying eyes.

There were at one time at least 8 recovery teams to handle
accidents, reentries (ours or Soviet) etc. There was one
nearBakersfield, but I know of nobody who called it a flying
saucer. Almost certainly a stealth aircraft of ours.

>>3. Lets assume that a further proportion never actually happened
>>and are pure fabrication on the part of some misguided
>>individual. That leaves us with a relatively small percentage of
>>true UFO crashes. The question now is, why do they crash? In
>>some cases there is no reason to think that there was any
>>intervention on our part in the malfunction, intended or
>>unintended.

Without data how can you come up with a relatively small (or
large) percentage of True UFO Crashes?

>>Is it really possible that these alleged ET craft crash through
>>nothing else than pilot error? How can this be if they have such
>>apparently sophisticated technology.

Why even suggest this?Data please..

>>Something about these two questions does not feel right. It is
>>not what one would expect from an advanced race, both mentally
>>and technologically. Surely these ET pilots would have better
>>judgement than to crash where they can be retrieved by us and
>>their technology apparently reverse engineered.

This seems to involve supposition on top of supposition. I have
had a number of reports of our aircraft not returning after
being sent up to intercept a flying saucer.

We and the Soviets each shot down a number of the other
country's aircraft during reconnaisance missions back more than
40 years ago. It was many many years before this was admitted.
Who says we have reverse engineered the flying technology?

>>In comparison, we have flown to the moon and back with a very
>>much more primitive machine so many times during the early
>>space program, yet we have never crashed on the moon, have we?
>>One thought that does come to mind to explain the high number of
>>crashes and that is that maybe, just maybe, they have HUMAN
>>pilots and that these crashing UFO are nothing else than our own
>>technological creation. I wont take that thought further now, I'll
>>leave it to the members to ponder and debate. However I do think
>>that I have raised some valid questions in the above. We cannot
>>take UFO crashes for granted and just accept them. It one thing
>>viewing a UFO in flight, quite another to accept that they crash
>>for no apparent reason.

Who is it that is taking UFO crashes for granted?Some of us try
to do our research by investigation rather than proclamation.

>>I look forward to the List member's comments.

>Not sure if this comment is of any use but look at the great
>number and percentage of losses of Earth >Mars probes
>over the years rather than merely the Moon probes/landings.

>There is also some indicators that the ET propulsion is a great
>deal different to our rockets etc and could be adversely
>affected by some Earth environs or Human activities/equipment.
>According to the Disclosure Project ET does not like radioactive
>sources so this may be one of the factors in ET crashes. Free
>Energy also does not like radioactivity, even very low levels,
>so this may point to a Free Energy drive of ET craft too and may
>actually explain the Roswell ET crashes ( previous atomic weapon
>tests ).

How in the world does the Disclosure project know what ET likes
or what supposed free energy likes???

>There is also some pointers to the Reich deep well experiments
>(excessively strong confined free energy upward emissions) and
>very strong radar emissions being contributing factors for ET
>craft crashes. The latter could account for incidences of ET
>craft near radar, airports and prior to Earthquakes in that they
>are trying out new tech or accustoming the pilot to these
>confined unusual Earth environments.

>All the forgoing presumes ET real, which I personally believe
>they are, and/or that they are altered/advanced human life forms
>and/or time travelers and/or from a different dimension to our
>reality and/or any combinations of all four.

>There is also some indicators that some ET may be telepathic,
>control their craft by thought and are very distracted by some
>Human's thought process's which could cause crashes maybe in
>combination with the above.

We have abductees indicating that ET's are telepathic... what
data do we have to say they control the craft by telepathy?

Stan Friedman
www.v-j-enterprises.com/sfpage.html







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   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Sep > Sep 28

                    Re: UFO Crashes Questioned - Friedman

From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys@rogers.com>
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 22:56:13 -0300
Fwd Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 09:19:19 -0400
Subject: Re: UFO Crashes Questioned - Friedman


>From: Colin Stevenson <colin@c2k2.fsworld.co.uk>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 20:03:12 +0100
>Subject: Re: UFO Crashes Questioned

>>From: Noel Herbiet <2orpheus6@telkomsa.net>
>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>>Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 19:15:26 +0200
>>Subject: UFO Crashes Questioned

>>The seemingly renewed interest in UFO crashes has prompted me to
>>ask the members of this list what their personal take is on this
>>rather alarming characteristic. I say alarming because if we are
>>to believe all that is written, there have been quite a few
>>alleged UFO crashes which implies that either these ET folk are
>>rotten pilots or that we have a weapon capable of crippling such
>>a craft or that in fact, the number of crashes are proportional
>>to the number of fly-bys which would imply that they must be
>>buzzing our skies a very great deal.

What is the meaning of " renewed interest" in UFO crashes? When
had it ebbed since 'The Roswell Incident' was published in
1980??

What is the connection between interest and number of crashes?
Len Stringfield had years ago compiled a listing of about 60
crash stories he had collected. Very few had been investigated.
Since we don't have travel or sortie schedules, and we don't
know how many crashes there have been, how can we say whether
crashes are frequent or rare? There have been good solid
observations of truly huge" mother ships" (.6-1.2 miles long).
Our aircraft carriers which are much smaller can carry 75
airplanes.

>>Let me firstly say that I do not believe that all reported UFO
>>crashes are that of an ET craft as such.

>>1. More than likely, a fair proportion of reported "crashes" are
>>that of some space debris or such like.

Why is this more or less likely? What data is there? Certainly
we know there are many reentering spacecraft of Earthly origin
such as Cosmos 954. But did anybody ever call that a flying
saucer crash?

>>2. Another possibility is that one of our own experimental
>>aircraft has a difficulty on a test flight and ends up crashing.
>>That would account for the quick military response and presence
>>to recover and protect the wreckage from prying eyes.

There were at one time at least 8 recovery teams to handle
accidents, reentries (ours or Soviet) etc. There was one
nearBakersfield, but I know of nobody who called it a flying
saucer. Almost certainly a stealth aircraft of ours.

>>3. Lets assume that a further proportion never actually happened
>>and are pure fabrication on the part of some misguided
>>individual. That leaves us with a relatively small percentage of
>>true UFO crashes. The question now is, why do they crash? In
>>some cases there is no reason to think that there was any
>>intervention on our part in the malfunction, intended or
>>unintended.

Without data how can you come up with a relatively small (or
large) percentage of True UFO Crashes?

>>Is it really possible that these alleged ET craft crash through
>>nothing else than pilot error? How can this be if they have such
>>apparently sophisticated technology.

Why even suggest this?Data please..

>>Something about these two questions does not feel right. It is
>>not what one would expect from an advanced race, both mentally
>>and technologically. Surely these ET pilots would have better
>>judgement than to crash where they can be retrieved by us and
>>their technology apparently reverse engineered.

This seems to involve supposition on top of supposition. I have
had a number of reports of our aircraft not returning after
being sent up to intercept a flying saucer.

We and the Soviets each shot down a number of the other
country's aircraft during reconnaisance missions back more than
40 years ago. It was many many years before this was admitted.
Who says we have reverse engineered the flying technology?

>>In comparison, we have flown to the moon and back with a very
>>much more primitive machine so many times during the early
>>space program, yet we have never crashed on the moon, have we?
>>One thought that does come to mind to explain the high number of
>>crashes and that is that maybe, just maybe, they have HUMAN
>>pilots and that these crashing UFO are nothing else than our own
>>technological creation. I wont take that thought further now, I'll
>>leave it to the members to ponder and debate. However I do think
>>that I have raised some valid questions in the above. We cannot
>>take UFO crashes for granted and just accept them. It one thing
>>viewing a UFO in flight, quite another to accept that they crash
>>for no apparent reason.

Who is it that is taking UFO crashes for granted?Some of us try
to do our research by investigation rather than proclamation.

>>I look forward to the List member's comments.

>Not sure if this comment is of any use but look at the great
>number and percentage of losses of Earth >Mars probes
>over the years rather than merely the Moon probes/landings.

>There is also some indicators that the ET propulsion is a great
>deal different to our rockets etc and could be adversely
>affected by some Earth environs or Human activities/equipment.
>According to the Disclosure Project ET does not like radioactive
>sources so this may be one of the factors in ET crashes. Free
>Energy also does not like radioactivity, even very low levels,
>so this may point to a Free Energy drive of ET craft too and may
>actually explain the Roswell ET crashes ( previous atomic weapon
>tests ).

How in the world does the Disclosure project know what ET likes
or what supposed free energy likes???

>There is also some pointers to the Reich deep well experiments
>(excessively strong confined free energy upward emissions) and
>very strong radar emissions being contributing factors for ET
>craft crashes. The latter could account for incidences of ET
>craft near radar, airports and prior to Earthquakes in that they
>are trying out new tech or accustoming the pilot to these
>confined unusual Earth environments.

>All the forgoing presumes ET real, which I personally believe
>they are, and/or that they are altered/advanced human life forms
>and/or time travelers and/or from a different dimension to our
>reality and/or any combinations of all four.

>There is also some indicators that some ET may be telepathic,
>control their craft by thought and are very distracted by some
>Human's thought process's which could cause crashes maybe in
>combination with the above.

We have abductees indicating that ET's are telepathic... what
data do we have to say they control the craft by telepathy?

Stan Friedman
www.v-j-enterprises.com/sfpage.html







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   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Sep > Sep 28

                    Vancouver, British Columbia 09-25-03

From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO <hbccufo@telus.net>
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 19:19:42 -0700
Fwd Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 09:21:06 -0400
Subject: Vancouver, British Columbia 09-25-03


Vancouver, British Columbia

Date: September 25, 2003
Time: approx: 8:15 p.m.

A gentleman called me to report that he witnessed a bright white
light acting very strangely. Although the sighting only lasted
for a split second or so, he was still able to observe the light
doing some very unusual things. The location for this sighting
was at around Kitsilano at 4th Avenue and Maple. The witness was
walking west on forth Avenue on the north side of the street
when he just happened to looked up and caught sight of what
looked like a star, white in color. The fellow did not want to
make any assumptions, but he thought it may have been reflected
sunlight. The object was rather high up in the sky. The light
was traveling from north to the south and the sighting lasted
approx: a second. He also mentioned that whatever it was moved
incredibly fast, like a shooting star. But the unusual thing
about it, the light moved very erratic. In other words the
witness said it did not move in a straight line. He also
mentioned if the light had of traveled in a straight line, he
would not have called me to make the report. Only because it
behaved so strange, he thought he would file a report. The man
felt that the sighting was so strange, he wanted to know if
anyone had reported seeing this.

Also, if one looks at the last report I just posted for around
the Vancouver area, there are some similarities and a day a
part. Any connection, who knows but I think it is still worth
noting. No sound was heard. Again his impression was that the
light was very high up. Due to him being around a lot of large
buildings in the area, he did not have a good field of view.

Thank you to the witness for the report.

Brian Vike, Director
HBCC UFO Research
Canadian Toll Free UFO Hotline 1 866 262 1989 - Free call.
Home - Phone/Fax 1 250 845 2189
HBCC UFO Forum Board
http://216.147.50.102/HBCC-UFO/index.php
email: hbccufo@telus.net
Website: http://www3.telus.net/public/wilbur8/hbcc_ufo_research.htm







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   Sep > Sep 28

                     Two Reports From HBCC UFO Research

From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO <hbccufo@telus.net>
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 16:01:30 -0700
Fwd Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 09:02:53 -0400
Subject: Two Reports From HBCC UFO Research


Hi List

2 more reports, more to come soon.


Vancouver, B.C. & Point Roberts, Wa., United States

Date:  September 26, 2003
Time:  approx: 8:30 to 9:00 p.m.

I received an email today, September 27, 2003 from a lady who
gave me a short report on a sighting her husband had on
September 26, 2003. I asked if I could call to see if I was able
to get anymore details on the sighting. Everyone agreed and I
called. I talked to her husband, the witness who watched
something fly through the sky. The witness said the object would
have been seen both in Wa. State and in British Columbia.

Between 8:30 to 9:00 p.m. the fellow took his dog outside so it
could do it's business. It was a clear night and he was looking
up at the stars. The fellow saw a strange light fly across the
sky, which he first thought might have been a satellite. The
object/light was traveling west to east. He said it was just a
little smaller than the planet Mars, but very bright. The
witness mentioned it traveled on a straight line, but the
strange thing was, it moved from side to side as it moved across
the sky. His thoughts were of a Jet Ski bouncing up and down
over the waves, but in this case the light was moving from side
to side.

The light was a faint blue/white in color. No tail was noticed
following behind. The man also described the light as being
spherical in shape. Although it was rather high up, the witness
did not believe it was as high where one would find a satellite.
No sound was heard, no response from his dog after the light
passed overhead. The light was extremely bright and as it moved
towards the east and it just faded out. The sighting lasted
between 30 and 40 seconds.

Thank you to the witness for the report.

Brian Vike, Director
HBCC UFO Research

---------

Airdrie, Alberta

Date:  August 18, 2003 (approx:)
Time:  approx: 2:30 p.m.

I fellow called to report he witnessed something very strange
when he was driving up Deerfoot heading towards Airdrie. He
watched a small ball of white light cross the highway in the
distance a head of him, the ball of light turned in his
direction. The witness said he was doing approametly 30
kilometers an hour and observed the light getting closer. All of
a sudden the object stopped, still a ways away from him, there
it had changed from a ball of light into a craft of some type.
He made a guess as to what the altitude of the object might have
been at. The witness told me it may have been traveling at
approx: 1000 feet.

He added that before the object changed from a ball of light
into a strange craft, he noted that it started glistening and
shinning brightly and then this is when it started taking on
some kind of form of an unusual object. He reported no sound
being heard, mind you he was in his vehicle at the time. I also
asked if he might be able to determine the size of it, he said
when it was in the distance it could have been approx: the size
of his small fingers, fingernail. But when it headed in his
direction and got very close,  in his words, "it was huge."

The object did come to a complete stop as the man passed close
by. It sat stationary as he drove some 2 kilometers doing around
20 kilometers an hour. Finally other drivers started honking
their horns to get his attention to have him speed up. The man
said the reason why he was driving so slow was due to him
looking over his shoulder and out the back window watching it.
Finally due to his location from the object he lost sight of it.

Thank you to the witness for the report.


Brian Vike, Director
HBCC UFO Research
Canadian Toll Free UFO Hotline 1 866 262 1989 - Free call.
Home - Phone/Fax 1 250 845 2189
HBCC UFO Forum Board
http://216.147.50.102/HBCC-UFO/index.php
email: hbccufo@telus.net
Website: http://www3.telus.net/public/wilbur8/hbcc_ufo_research.htm








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   Sep > Sep 28

                      'Grey' Photographed In Graveyard?

From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 18:52:53 EDT
Fwd Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 09:00:12 -0400
Subject: 'Grey' Photographed In Graveyard?


The URL goes to a two picture display with a one paragraph
explanation of a photo of a 'Grey' wandering about a cemetary.

http://www.ghoststudy.com/monthly/sep03/crypt.htm

Hadn't seen this one before and it ought to be a good one for
the 'Photoshop' experts.


Greg






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                    Re: UFO Crashes Questioned - Friedman

From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys@rogers.com>
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 22:56:13 -0300
Fwd Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 09:19:19 -0400
Subject: Re: UFO Crashes Questioned - Friedman


>From: Colin Stevenson <colin@c2k2.fsworld.co.uk>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 20:03:12 +0100
>Subject: Re: UFO Crashes Questioned

>>From: Noel Herbiet <2orpheus6@telkomsa.net>
>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>>Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 19:15:26 +0200
>>Subject: UFO Crashes Questioned

>>The seemingly renewed interest in UFO crashes has prompted me to
>>ask the members of this list what their personal take is on this
>>rather alarming characteristic. I say alarming because if we are
>>to believe all that is written, there have been quite a few
>>alleged UFO crashes which implies that either these ET folk are
>>rotten pilots or that we have a weapon capable of crippling such
>>a craft or that in fact, the number of crashes are proportional
>>to the number of fly-bys which would imply that they must be
>>buzzing our skies a very great deal.

What is the meaning of " renewed interest" in UFO crashes? When
had it ebbed since 'The Roswell Incident' was published in
1980??

What is the connection between interest and number of crashes?
Len Stringfield had years ago compiled a listing of about 60
crash stories he had collected. Very few had been investigated.
Since we don't have travel or sortie schedules, and we don't
know how many crashes there have been, how can we say whether
crashes are frequent or rare? There have been good solid
observations of truly huge" mother ships" (.6-1.2 miles long).
Our aircraft carriers which are much smaller can carry 75
airplanes.

>>Let me firstly say that I do not believe that all reported UFO
>>crashes are that of an ET craft as such.

>>1. More than likely, a fair proportion of reported "crashes" are
>>that of some space debris or such like.

Why is this more or less likely? What data is there? Certainly
we know there are many reentering spacecraft of Earthly origin
such as Cosmos 954. But did anybody ever call that a flying
saucer crash?

>>2. Another possibility is that one of our own experimental
>>aircraft has a difficulty on a test flight and ends up crashing.
>>That would account for the quick military response and presence
>>to recover and protect the wreckage from prying eyes.

There were at one time at least 8 recovery teams to handle
accidents, reentries (ours or Soviet) etc. There was one
nearBakersfield, but I know of nobody who called it a flying
saucer. Almost certainly a stealth aircraft of ours.

>>3. Lets assume that a further proportion never actually happened
>>and are pure fabrication on the part of some misguided
>>individual. That leaves us with a relatively small percentage of
>>true UFO crashes. The question now is, why do they crash? In
>>some cases there is no reason to think that there was any
>>intervention on our part in the malfunction, intended or
>>unintended.

Without data how can you come up with a relatively small (or
large) percentage of True UFO Crashes?

>>Is it really possible that these alleged ET craft crash through
>>nothing else than pilot error? How can this be if they have such
>>apparently sophisticated technology.

Why even suggest this?Data please..

>>Something about these two questions does not feel right. It is
>>not what one would expect from an advanced race, both mentally
>>and technologically. Surely these ET pilots would have better
>>judgement than to crash where they can be retrieved by us and
>>their technology apparently reverse engineered.

This seems to involve supposition on top of supposition. I have
had a number of reports of our aircraft not returning after
being sent up to intercept a flying saucer.

We and the Soviets each shot down a number of the other
country's aircraft during reconnaisance missions back more than
40 years ago. It was many many years before this was admitted.
Who says we have reverse engineered the flying technology?

>>In comparison, we have flown to the moon and back with a very
>>much more primitive machine so many times during the early
>>space program, yet we have never crashed on the moon, have we?
>>One thought that does come to mind to explain the high number of
>>crashes and that is that maybe, just maybe, they have HUMAN
>>pilots and that these crashing UFO are nothing else than our own
>>technological creation. I wont take that thought further now, I'll
>>leave it to the members to ponder and debate. However I do think
>>that I have raised some valid questions in the above. We cannot
>>take UFO crashes for granted and just accept them. It one thing
>>viewing a UFO in flight, quite another to accept that they crash
>>for no apparent reason.

Who is it that is taking UFO crashes for granted?Some of us try
to do our research by investigation rather than proclamation.

>>I look forward to the List member's comments.

>Not sure if this comment is of any use but look at the great
>number and percentage of losses of Earth >Mars probes
>over the years rather than merely the Moon probes/landings.

>There is also some indicators that the ET propulsion is a great
>deal different to our rockets etc and could be adversely
>affected by some Earth environs or Human activities/equipment.
>According to the Disclosure Project ET does not like radioactive
>sources so this may be one of the factors in ET crashes. Free
>Energy also does not like radioactivity, even very low levels,
>so this may point to a Free Energy drive of ET craft too and may
>actually explain the Roswell ET crashes ( previous atomic weapon
>tests ).

How in the world does the Disclosure project know what ET likes
or what supposed free energy likes???

>There is also some pointers to the Reich deep well experiments
>(excessively strong confined free energy upward emissions) and
>very strong radar emissions being contributing factors for ET
>craft crashes. The latter could account for incidences of ET
>craft near radar, airports and prior to Earthquakes in that they
>are trying out new tech or accustoming the pilot to these
>confined unusual Earth environments.

>All the forgoing presumes ET real, which I personally believe
>they are, and/or that they are altered/advanced human life forms
>and/or time travelers and/or from a different dimension to our
>reality and/or any combinations of all four.

>There is also some indicators that some ET may be telepathic,
>control their craft by thought and are very distracted by some
>Human's thought process's which could cause crashes maybe in
>combination with the above.

We have abductees indicating that ET's are telepathic... what
data do we have to say they control the craft by telepathy?

Stan Friedman
www.v-j-enterprises.com/sfpage.html








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   Sep > Sep 29

                          July 29, 1952 Port Huron?

From: Todd Lemire <tlemire@comcast.net>
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 19:35:37 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 06:11:33 -0400
Subject: July 29, 1952 Port Huron?


Hello list,

I'm looking for some material regarding the July 29, 1952 Port
Huron, Michigan radar case. Brad Sparks has given me the
following reference material which I would like to obtain a copy
of.

"The McDonald notes and pilot interview report to Keyhoe of Jan
1970 are in Loren Gross' July 21-31, 1952 Supplement, pp. 71-77"

Does anyone here have these pages that would be willing to share
them with me?

I would greatly appreciate it. I apologize for posting this to
multiple lists but I would like to cover as much ground as
possible in hopes of obtaining this material.

Thanks for understanding.


Sincerely,

Todd Lemire

http://www.michiganufos.com






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                    Terrace, British Columbia - 09-27-03

From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO <hbccufo@telus.net>
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 23:14:05 -0700
Fwd Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 06:12:02 -0400
Subject: Terrace, British Columbia - 09-27-03


Hi List,

Just in from Terrace, British Columbia. I will be calling the
witness tomorrow for more details. Also today I received some
really awesome photos of a daylight sighting. A number of balls
of white/silver colored lights can be seen flying underneath a
rainbow. Plus just before all this took place, and still dark
blue lights were photographed. I will be posting these to my
site in a while, and I am calling the witnesses Sunday to get a
report on this and some other things seen in the area.

Terrace, British Columbia

Date: September 27, 2003
Time: 10:25 p.m.
email report.

Hi Brian,

I was sitting outside facing west when a huge saucer, 4 times
moon size, materialized out of nowhere right in front of me. I
was not looking in any way just listening to music and relaxing
after a 10 hour day of splitting firewood. This object of
intensive white color did have a saucer shape and the outline
was in light red.

The object must have been only 35-40 meters, or even closer,
away AND it was not sitting still but moving up and down. I got
very scared and my heart started pumping like crazy..I am still
shaking.. The whole scenario lasted for only 15 seconds before
the saucer became invisible.. There was some heat coming from it
and it stank like rotten eggs...sulphur like smell but somehow
different!!

Everything took place just 10 minutes ago..

I am still shaking..

Thank you to the witness for the report.

Brian Vike, Director
HBCC UFO Research
Canadian Toll Free UFO Hotline 1 866 262 1989 - Free call.
Home - Phone/Fax 1 250 845 2189
HBCC UFO Forum Board
http://216.147.50.102/HBCC-UFO/index.php
email: hbccufo@telus.net
Website: http://www3.telus.net/public/wilbur8/hbcc_ufo_research.htm







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   Sep > Sep 29

              Re: Has There Ever Been An 'Overflight'? - Hatch

From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 01:41:23 -0700
Fwd Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 06:12:46 -0400
Subject: Re: Has There Ever Been An 'Overflight'? - Hatch


>From: Daniel Guenther <daniel_g@t-online.de>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 23:26:57 +0200
>Subject: Has There Ever Been An 'Overflight'?


>I would like to address this issue to those database
>'specialists' like Larry Hatch etc.

>My question is, has there ever been an instance of a UFO case
>for example in France, where a witness describes something that
>is - also for example - left-rotating on its own axis, hovering
>above a house, with a green light on top and a red light at the
>bottom and then _another_ case from Canada (for example), where
>exactly the same was observed - only a few minutes or hours
>later - a close object, rotating left, with a green light on top
>and a red light at the bottom, etc......

>Of course, both witnesses don't know each other.

>Has there ever been an occurrence of this?

>Daniel G.

>--
>Just the Cases - UFO sightings database
>http://cs.tu-berlin.de/~thomasg/ufodb.htm


Hello Daniel:


I'm not quite sure what you are asking.

By left rotating, do you mean spinning counter- clockwise as
seen from below? That would mean the object was spinning
clockwise as seen from above.

Seen from below (or above) an observer would only see lights on
the bottom (or top) of the object, not both at the same time.

Red and green lights suggest aircraft to me, unless there is
something quite "different" about them.

Objects seen "over a house" (or a barn, or a tree..) often
simply means that the line of sight between observer and object
merely _passes_ over the house, barn, tree.. while the object
could in fact be directly over something else in the distance.

If an object (some light say) is seen at 2100 hours UTC in
London, then hours later at 2100 hours EST in Canada or New
York, I start to suspect an astronomical body. That's one way to
filter out junk sightings. I no longer list "night-lights" in
any case, low information content for one thing, easily
dismissed as mundane for another.

I must have many many cases where similar (hopefully more
interesting) objects were seen at one place, then again
elsewhere hours later. There is no way to determine that they
were indeed the same object of course. Often, multiple witnesses
to the _same_ event will have _different_ descriptions; with
regard to shape, colors, flight path etc. That has always
troubled me.

Here are two cases, not far apart, which seem to be the same
object .. suspiciously balloon-like:

899: 1947/07/06 14:50h 106:47W 41:13N NAM USA WYO
ENCAMPMENT,WY:AVIATION ENGINEER+2:SLNT OVOID >N
SIDEWAYS:VLARGE+HIGH:/r242p55
/r187 BLOECHER,Ted:REPORT/UFO WAVE of 1947 Case No. 428

#900: 1947/07/06 15:00h 106:18W 42:52N NAM USA WYO
CASPER,WY:2 OBS:GLITTERING DISK >>E/HIGH ALT:S/L FLITE
/r187 BLOECHER,Ted:REPORT/UFO WAVE of 1947 Case No. 430

(/r242 is HALL, Richard: The UFO EVIDENCE. NICAP,
 Washington, DC 1964. Reprinted 1997/Barnes & Noble)

Separated by perhaps 50 air-miles and only minutes of time, they
disagree in direction of travel and speed but agree on high
altitude.

I wish I could help more, but I'm not really sure what you are
asking.


Best wishes

- Larry Hatch







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   Sep > Sep 29

                    Re: Mysterious 1959 Incident - Hatch

From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 02:06:10 -0700
Fwd Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 06:14:23 -0400
Subject: Re: Mysterious 1959 Incident - Hatch


>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99@hotmail.com>
>To: ufoupdates@sympatico.ca
>Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 18:14:00 +0000
>Subject: Re: Mysterious 1959 Incident

>>From: Michael Christol <spachopr@bellsouth.net>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 20:07:52 -0500
>>Subject: Re: Mysterious 1959 Incident

<snip>

>>In July or August, 1967, I, along with Jack Murphree, a local
>>Radio DJ, and Ralph Dorris, and Engineer for General Electric,
>>interviewed a Mr. Darrel Whitehouse, of RR?, Philpot, Ky.

>>Mr. Whitehouse advised us that he heard a sound of squeeling
>>tires on the road outside his house, so he went out to
>>investigate. The local teens used the straight stretch in front
>>of his house as a favorite place to drag race.

>>When he walked outside, he didn't see anything, so he sat to
>>smoke a cigarette. As he was setting there looking to his right,
>>down the road, he heard a "pop" and turned to his left, looking
>>diagonally toward his soybean field. He saw what appeared to be
>>"a barrel" shaped object rising vertically from his soybean
>>field. He said: "the object went straight up about a hundred
>>feet and then sort of fell over, level with the ground, and flew
>>off toward the north, toward Indiana."

>>He said he: "didn't hear no sound at all other than the pop."

>>When he went out to his bean field the next day, he found a
>>circle approximately 30 feet in diameter, which was devoid of
>>any live plants. The ground within the circle was dry and dusty.
>>The plants were brown and dry, but not burned as a fire would.

>>The plants outside the circle were normal. Ralph Dorris flew
>>over the field in a small plane and photographed the area.

>>The photos showed a distinctive "V" shaped trail leading to the
>>north for about 30 yards, where the tops of the plants were also
>>browned, although the rest of the plants were fine, as we later
>>observed.

>>We took several photographs with a black and white Polorid
>>Swinger camera, but I only have one of those photos left, and it
>>has faded. You can still see the circle, but I wish still today,
>>I had used my Brownie Kodac color film camera.

<snip>

>>I took samples of the bean plants and the soil within and
>>without the circle and sent them to NICAP.

>>I received a reply from NICAP advising me that they had received
>>the plants and would contact Mr. Whitehouse. I did not talk to
>>Mr. Whitehouse after I received the letter. So, I do not know if
>>they actually contacted him or not.

>>I was hoping you might have access to the files of that time and
>>could advise me.

>The NICAP sighting files are archived at the Center for UFO
>Studies in Chicago. As I understand it, they are accessible by
>appointment.

>Since I am currently working on a major new study and re-
>evaluation of the 1966-67 sighting wave for the Fund for UFO
>Research, I would be very interested if you could pin down the
>date of this case. I have some NICAP files from that period but
>that was a very big year and a date would help, even if within a
>week or so.

= = =

Hello Mike, Dick:


I thought this would be easy. Wrong! I have no listing for
Philpot, KY even though it almost rings a bell. (Philpot is in
Daviess County, KY 86:59W - 37:44N ESE of Owensboro.)

"Owensboro, KY" brought up this apparently separate incident
from the same era:

#8385: 1967/09/04? 20:50h 87:07W 37:46N NAM USA KNT
OWENSBORO,KY:1 OBS:7 SLNT WHT OVOIDS > S:TURN W OVHD:
TURN >N AGAIN/no accel /r98 MISCELLANEOUS. Footnote 51

Footnote #51 here refers to (tadaah!) Michael Christol
<spachopr@bellsouth.net>. The account is/was on a website:
http://www.icq.com if I have that right.

A scan of mid-1960s Kentucky records finds nothing very similar,
a barrel shaped object rising from a farm field.

I hope this can be tracked down, I would like to catalog it.


Best wishes

- Larry Hatch






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   Sep > Sep 29

                     Re: UFO Crashes Questioned - Hatch

From: Larry Hatch <larry@larryhatch.net>
Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 02:27:34 -0700
Fwd Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 06:14:48 -0400
Subject: Re: UFO Crashes Questioned - Hatch


>From: Noel Herbiet <2orpheus6@telkomsa.net>
>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 19:15:26 +0200
>Subject: UFO Crashes Questioned

>The seemingly renewed interest in UFO crashes has prompted me to
>ask the members of this list what their personal take is on this
>rather alarming characteristic. I say alarming because if we are
>to believe all that is written, there have been quite a few
>alleged UFO crashes which implies that either these ET folk are
>rotten pilots or that we have a weapon capable of crippling such
>a craft or that in fact, the number of crashes are proportional
>to the number of fly-bys which would imply that they must be
>buzzing our skies a very great deal.

>Let me firstly say that I do not believe that all reported UFO
>crashes are that of an ET craft as such.

>1. More than likely, a fair proportion of reported "crashes" are
>that of some space debris or such like.

>2. Another possibility is that one of our own experimental
>aircraft has a difficulty on a test flight and ends up crashing.
>That would account for the quick military response and presence
>to recover and protect the wreckage from prying eyes.

>3. Lets assume that a further proportion never actually happened
>and are pure fabrication on the part of some misguided
>individual. That leaves us with a relatively small percentage of
>true UFO crashes. The question now is, why do they crash? In
>some cases there is no reason to think that there was any
>intervention on our part in the malfunction, intended or
>unintended.

>Is it really possible that these alleged ET craft crash through
>nothing else than pilot error? How can this be if they have such
>apparently sophisticated technology.

>Something about these two questions does not feel right. It is
>not what one would expect from an advanced race, both mentally
>and technologically. Surely these ET pilots would have better
>judgement than to crash where they can be retrieved by us and
>their technology apparently reverse engineered.

>In comparison, we have flown to the moon and back with a very
>much more primitive machine so many times during the early
>space program, yet we have never crashed on the moon, have we?
>One thought that does come to mind to explain the high number of
>crashes and that is that maybe, just maybe, they have HUMAN
>pilots and that these crashing UFO are nothing else than our own
>technological creation. I wont take that thought further now, I'll
>leave it to the members to ponder and debate. However I do think
>that I have raised some valid questions in the above. We cannot
>take UFO crashes for granted and just accept them. It one thing
>viewing a UFO in flight, quite another to accept that they crash
>for no apparent reason.

>I look forward to the List member's comments.


Hello Noel:

My personal opinion is that ET UFO crashes should be somewhere
between extremely rare and nonexistent.

Adjoining the "fab area" where I worked at National
Semiconductor for years, was a sealed off area called "Rad
Hard." Nobody went strolling thru there without very specific
authorization!

In addition to radiation hardening, there are all sorts of
shielding schemes to protect sensitive semiconductors
(transistors, chips etc.) .. but who says UFOs use those?
Instead of electronics, they could use photonics or something
else entirely.

I recall some 1950s account of a "crashed object" or some such,
carefully searched and surprisingly bereft of vacuum tubes(!)
Were the investigators expecting something like the glowing
tubes from a Philco Radio?

If indeed Earth is being studied by advanced probes from
elsewhere, I would expect the designers to take every
conceivable measure, plus others we don't even know yet, to
prevent crashes and most especially crash-retrievals.


Best wishes

- Larry Hatch





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   Sep > Sep 29

                    Re: UFO Crashes Questioned - Gonzalez

From: Luis R. Gonzalez <lrgm@arrakis.es>
Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 11:30:23 +0200
Fwd Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 06:15:11 -0400
Subject: Re: UFO Crashes Questioned - Gonzalez


>From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22@fastmail.fm>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 09:31:03 -0800
>Subject: Re: UFO Crashes Questioned

<snip>

>Nick, I wrote about this in my first book about 13 years ago.
>Some find it hard to believe that a spacecraft flown by
>technically advanced races could be prone to interference or
>malfunction. A simple review of our own air crashes involving
>technically sophisticated aircraft such a the F-16 or B-1B
>bomber refutes that idea. In fact there is support for the idea
>that highly complicated electronic systems can be prone to
>malfunction when subjected to radio, radar, or microwave
>emissions.

What I do find hard to believe is not that spacecraft could be
prone to interference or malfunction, is that they always crash
in isolated areas, the terrestrial governments are always able
to collect all the scattered pieces and, above all, that those
aliens never worried to try to recover their crafts and their
comrades, dead or alive.

Luis R. Gonzalez Manso







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                    Terrace, British Columbia - 09-27-03

From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO <hbccufo@telus.net>
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 23:14:05 -0700
Fwd Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 06:13:46 -0400
Subject: Terrace, British Columbia - 09-27-03


Hi List,

Just in from Terrace, British Columbia. I will be calling the
witness tomorrow for more details. Also today I received some
really awesome photos of a daylight sighting. A number of balls
of white/silver colored lights can be seen flying underneath a
rainbow. Plus just before all this took place, and still dark
blue lights were photographed. I will be posting these to my
site in a while, and I am calling the witnesses Sunday to get a
report on this and some other things seen in the area.

Terrace, British Columbia

Date: September 27, 2003
Time: 10:25 p.m.
email report.

Hi Brian,

I was sitting outside facing west when a huge saucer, 4 times
moon size, materialized out of nowhere right in front of me. I
was not looking in any way just listening to music and relaxing
after a 10 hour day of splitting firewood. This object of
intensive white color did have a saucer shape and the outline
was in light red.

The object must have been only 35-40 meters, or even closer,
away AND it was not sitting still but moving up and down. I got
very scared and my heart started pumping like crazy..I am still
shaking.. The whole scenario lasted for only 15 seconds before
the saucer became invisible.. There was some heat coming from it
and it stank like rotten eggs...sulphur like smell but somehow
different!!

Everything took place just 10 minutes ago..

I am still shaking..

Thank you to the witness for the report.

Brian Vike, Director
HBCC UFO Research
Canadian Toll Free UFO Hotline 1 866 262 1989 - Free call.
Home - Phone/Fax 1 250 845 2189
HBCC UFO Forum Board
http://216.147.50.102/HBCC-UFO/index.php
email: hbccufo@telus.net
Website: http://www3.telus.net/public/wilbur8/hbcc_ufo_research.htm







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                    Re: UFO Crashes Questioned - Hamilton

From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22@fastmail.fm>
Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 07:29:55 -0800
Fwd Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 06:16:21 -0400
Subject: Re: UFO Crashes Questioned - Hamilton


>From: Eric Jacobson <ejacobson74@comcast.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 21:32:59 -0400
>Subject: Re: UFO Crashes Questioned

<snip>

>Please guys, what are these "well documented UFO crashes?" I am
>unaware of any. The most extensively investigated case - Roswell
>- is far from conclusive. Not to mention where is the physical
>evidence of all these crashes?. Or do you believe that they only
>crash in places where the US can go and retrieve them before
>anyone else gets any evidence? That really strains credulity.

It is not that so many of these crashes have been investigated,
it is that many have been reported and very few investigated.
Even with investigation, there is doubt, as you have expressed.

>Not that I don't believe there are ET craft in the Earth's
>atmosphere. That actually is well documented.

>The idea that we can compare their craft to ours, to
>'transistors and semiconductor devices' and 'EM' fields is
>exactly like some pre-industrial natives somewhere seeing a
>stealth bomber fly over and thinking that it must work like a
>boomerang.

Not exactly. There are a few scientists and engineers who feel
they have a grasp on how these craft operate. It is merely
extrapolation to show that, though our technology has
progressed, it is has never been foolproof. What makes you think
another thousand years of progression is going to make any
technology failure proof?

>Why would you supposed that a technology which might be
>thousands or tens of thousands years ahead of our own could be
>understood in terms of our primitive devices?

Maybe not, but we always seek to understand the unknown in terms
of the known. I doubt very much anyone is going to throw up
their hands and say "it is just too advanced for our
understanding". I have not known the human mind to work in that
fashion.

-Bill H





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                     Paper On ST-48 Object Trajectories

From: Lan Fleming <lfleming5@houston.rr.com>
Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 13:00:44 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 06:17:41 -0400
Subject: Paper On ST-48 Object Trajectories


I've written a paper that's now posted on Mark Carlotto's web
journal:

www.newfrontiersinscience.com

The paper shows images of the objects' flight paths that I
generated using essentially the same overlay method that Mark
did for his JSE paper. Some of the objects not only have curved
trajectories showing that they were self-propelled, but at least
two of them actually change course at times when no shuttle
thruster was firing. I only looked a little farther in the
direction that Mark's work was already pointing, so I can say
with all modesty that these images are truly spectacular.

I've also posted the paper on my own web site and started a new
index page with links to the three articles I've already
written. The URL:

http://www.vgl.org/webfiles/STS-48/index/shuttle-index.htm

There should be more articles listed on this index page in the
future. I intend to post some updates on the bizarre "time warp"
in the STS-48 video time stamps and information on the shuttle
relating to the videos. I may also post an article or two about
the STS-80 video at some point.

As much as NASA may want their "Candid Camera" problems to go
away, they never will until NASA is prepared to address them
honestly.






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                    Re: UFO Crashes Questioned - Aldrich

From: Jan Aldrich <project1947@earthlink.net>
Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 16:15:7 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 06:18:18 -0400
Subject: Re: UFO Crashes Questioned - Aldrich


>From: Eric Jacobson <ejacobson74@comcast.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 21:32:59 -0400
>Subject: Re: UFO Crashes Questioned

>>From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22@fastmail.fm>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 09:31:03 -0800
>>Subject: Re: UFO Crashes Questioned

<snip>

>>Some find it hard to believe that a spacecraft flown by
>>technically advanced races could be prone to interference or
>>malfunction.

>>Random noise can occur in transistors and other semiconductor
>>devices. Any electric device which receives electromagnetic
>>radiation will pick up random noise as well as signals.

>>An article in the Los Angeles Times (11/9/1987) stated that
>>routine radio wavs can knock the Army's most advaanced battle
>>transport helicopters out of the sky.

>Please guys, what are these "well documented UFO crashes?" I am
>unaware of any. The most extensively investigated case - Roswell
>- is far from conclusive. Not to mention where is the physical
>evidence of all these crashes?. Or do you believe that they only
>crash in places where the US can go and retrieve them before
>anyone else gets any evidence? That really strains credulity.

>Not that I don't believe there are ET craft in the Earth's
>atmosphere. That actually is well documented.

>The idea that we can compare their craft to ours, to
>'transistors and semiconductor devices' and 'EM' fields is
>exactly like some pre-industrial natives somewhere seeing a
>stealth bomber fly over and thinking that it must work like a
>boomerang.

>Why would you supposed that a technology which might be
>thousands or tens of thousands years ahead of our own could be
>understood in terms of our primitive devices?


Bravo!

Few of these cases have anything which can be considered well
checked.

Kaufmann's Roswell documentation did not stand to any kind of
critical examination.  Another series of faked documents, and
not very goods ones, considering his administrative background.

However, ET must be from a rather sorry 5th rate civilization if
they can cross interstellar distance only to crash on ole Terra.
 Lightning strikes and radio interference doing ET in, how
silly.

Official documentation is lacking or vague, Okinawa 1950 comes
to mind.  The Air Force decided against a recovery operation
here as the waters were too deep.  General Jung's ghost rocket,
no luck recovering any fragments from the lake.

The few physical items introduced are unconvincing, Ubatuba
magnesium, the New Haven bill board, Cdr Alvin Moore's sky
stone, etc.  I examined all the physical specimens that Project
Blue Book sent to the National Archives.  Nothing of great
interest here.

I think too many resources and too much attention has been paid
to the crashed saucer syndrome.  I think many people think these
crash cases are short cuts to the end of the flying saucer
mystery.


Jan Aldrich

Project 1947
http://www.project1947.com/
P. O. Box 391
Canterbury, CT 06331
(860) 546-9135






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                    Re: UFO Crashes Questioned - Herbiet

From: Noel Herbiet <2orpheus6@telkomsa.net>
Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 21:52:02 +0200
Fwd Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 06:19:02 -0400
Subject: Re: UFO Crashes Questioned - Herbiet


>From: Colin Stevenson <colin@c2k2.fsworld.co.uk>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 20:03:12 +0100
>Subject: Re: UFO Crashes Questioned

>>From: Noel Herbiet <2orpheus6@telkomsa.net>
>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>>Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 19:15:26 +0200
>>Subject: UFO Crashes Questioned

>Not sure if this comment is of any use but look at the great
>number and percentage of losses of Earth >Mars probes
>over the years rather than merely the Moon probes/landings.

>There is also some indicators that the ET propulsion is a great
>deal different to our rockets etc and could be adversely
>affected by some Earth environs or Human activities/equipment.
>According to the Disclosure Project ET does not like radioactive
>sources so this may be one of the factors in ET crashes. Free
>Energy also does not like radioactivity, even very low levels,
>so this may point to a Free Energy drive of ET craft too and may
>actually explain the Roswell ET crashes ( previous atomic weapon
>tests ).


Thank you very much Colin. I suspect we may be on similar
wavelengths when it comes to ET type technology and even
the nature of ETs themselves. Free energy drive is certainly a
thought away from standard, I would think, but yet maybe an
explanation to consider. I know the Free Energy concept is
a controvercial one so I wont go there now. However, I must
ask the following. Atomic experiments go back to Project
Manhattan. Thats about 55 years ago. Would ETs not have
evolved or modified their propulsion/control systems to
render them immune to interference from such sources ? I
know this is speculation but we do tend to offer explanations
for UFO crashes that dont have a factual basis. In the same
way we talk about UFO crashes as if these were undeniable
fact. Every crash story is thawrt with debate and accusations
of cover-up, Roswell included. Dont get me wrong, I am not
saying UFO crashes are ficticious. What I am looking for is
just one crash incident that we, as the public, can regard as
100% factual and unambiguious in order to set the baseline.


>There is also some pointers to the Reich deep well experiments (
>excessively strong confined free energy upward emissions ) and
>very strong radar emissions being contributing factors for ET
>craft crashes. The latter could account for incidences of ET
>craft near radar, airports and prior to Earthquakes in that they
>are trying out new tech or accustoming the pilot to these
>confined unusual Earth environments.
>
>All the forgoing presumes ET real, which I personally believe
>they are, and/or that they are altered/advanced human life forms
>and/or time travelers and/or from a different dimension to our
>reality and/or any combinations of all four.

I must agree with you Colin in this last paragraph. And it is
bold of you to put it as such because some researchers have our
ET friends catalogued as to type, nature, point of origin and
diet while we really dont know any of it for sure, do we ?

>There is also some indicators that some ET may be telepathic,
>control their craft by thought and are very distracted by some
>Human's thought process's which could cause crashes maybe in
>combination with the above.

Telepathic control, now that may well be and would explain
certain details such as the apparent lack of pilot interface or
control surfaces on the craft. It would also make sense that
telepathic control be used by a race that primarily communicates
by telepathic means. Perhaps we should all sit down quietly and
make a list of what we know as factual re UFOs, what we think
there is circumstantial evidence for, and what is pure
speculation or hearsay but none the less becomes accepted as
factual in general discussion.

Regards to all

Noel Herbiet






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                   Lights In Strand Sky Spur UFO Theories

From: Eustaquio Andrea Patounas <socex@terra.com.br>
Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 12:57:42 -0300
Fwd Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 06:17:19 -0400
Subject: Lights In Strand Sky Spur UFO Theories


Source: Myrtle Beach Sun News South Carolina

http://www.myrtlebeachonline.com/mld/sunnews/news/local/6880906.htm

Sep. 28, 2003

Alien Activity? Lights In Strand Sky Spur UFO Theories

By David Wren
The Sun News

When Pam Wingfield told her friends she had just spotted a UFO
over the Atlantic Ocean, they did what most good friends would
do - they laughed at her.

The laughter didn't last long.

In a matter of minutes, all three of the vacationers from
Virginia had seen the orange and yellow glowing spheres
flickering off the coast of North Myrtle Beach.

"We're all in our 50s, professional people - we're not into
hallucinatory drugs or anything like that," Wingfield said.
"People look at you funny when you tell them you've seen a UFO.
But what we saw was unidentified, it was flying and it was an
object."

Wingfield and her friends aren't the only people seeing strange
things in the Grand Strand's nighttime sky.

A database kept by the National UFO Reporting Center in Seattle
shows there have been at least six sightings of yellow, orange
or red lights floating near the horizon since Aug. 26. That's
more area sightings in a short period of time than ever before,
according to the database.

"It certainly is interesting, and it should be investigated,"
said Peter Davenport, the UFO center's director and keeper of
the database.

Davenport said there are several explanations - both normal and
paranormal - for the lights: a military exercise; commercial
aircraft; flares from a boat; a prank.

"Only about 10 percent of the time do these things turn out to
be bona fide UFOs," he said.

George Fawcett, a UFO expert from Charlotte, N.C., said lights
are the least reliable UFO indicator because they could be
anything, including stars and weather balloons.

But lights also might mean someone - or something - otherworldly
is checking out the planet.

"If a train is coming down the railroad tracks and all you see
is its light, you might think there's nothing more than a
light," Fawcett said. "But if you step in front of that light,
it'll kill you."

Most of the sightings have been in Myrtle Beach, although lights
also were spotted in Conway this summer.

In every case, witnesses say the lights appear, fade out and
then reappear at different places in the sky.

The lights only come out at night.

Myrtle Beach police say they haven't received any recent calls
about strange lights, but such calls aren't uncommon.

"We have our beach patrol investigate them for the possibility
of distress flares from a large boat," said police spokesman Lt.
Chuck Dunn. "We also call the local military bases to see if
they have anything going on. Usually, it's Shaw Air Force Base
[in Sumter] dropping flares and doing maneuvers."

Officials say neither explanation is relevant in the most recent
sightings.

Unidentified lights similar to those seen off the Myrtle Beach
coast have been reported in Arizona, Illinois and Wisconsin in
recent years. And a cluster of lights streaking across the New
Jersey sky briefly shut down the Newark airport in 2001.

To Kevin Christopher, a spokesman for the Committee for the
Scientific Investigation of Claims of the Paranormal, such
lights always have a logical explanation.

"People jump to the conclusion that if you can't determine what
some lights in the sky are, it must be evidence that aliens are
visiting the Earth," Christopher said. "It's far more likely to
be something mundane, like a star or a planet or lights from a
ship or an aircraft."

It also could be people mistaking the planet Mars - which
recently made its closest pass to Earth in recorded history -
 for a UFO, Christopher said.

The most plausible explanation, according to meteorologist Tom
Matheson, is nighttime thunderstorms over the Gulf Stream, about
70 miles off the Myrtle Beach coast.

"That would cause what appears to be yellow or orange lights,
especially if it's a hazy night," said Matheson, with the
National Weather Service in Wilmington, N.C.

Any explanation would be fine for Wingfield, who reported her
sighting to the National UFO Reporting Center's Web site hoping
someone could put the issue to rest.

"I personally don't believe in little green men," Wingfield
said. "But it was so bizarre, it sure would be nice to get a
reasonable explanation."






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                    Re: UFO Crashes Questioned - Herbiet

From: Noel Herbiet <2orpheus6@telkomsa.net>
Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 18:56:02 +0200
Fwd Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 06:20:19 -0400
Subject: Re: UFO Crashes Questioned - Herbiet


>From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 11:26:37 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
>Subject: Re: UFO Crashes Questioned

>>From: Noel Herbiet <2orpheus6@telkomsa.net>
>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>>Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 19:15:26 +0200
>>Subject: UFO Crashes Questioned

><snip>

>Fortunately, there are a few well documented UFO crash incidents
>which the public is aware of so we do not have to make too many
>pre-suppositions or assumptions in trying to determine just what
>is happening. Although there is some connection between UFO
>crashes and modern human technology (eg. nuclear testing,
>powerful radar, etc.), there are some reliable accounts of UFO
>crashes occurring prior to mid-20th century. Also, through most
>of the Cold War years there were standing orders to intercept
>and shoot down UFOs (ref. Major Donald E. Keyhoe), a policy
>which was apparently reversed in the 1960s after many pilots
>died and aircraft were lost (and possibly because of some other
>apparent retaliatory actions by the occupants of the UFOs, such
>as the December 1965 blackout in northeastern America). In the
>mid-1960s secret safe zones were established in Canada, the U.S.
>and other countries where UFOs could land safely without any
>physical threat to them.


Hi Nick, Listers

Thanks for the reply, Nick. May I ask you to be specific when
say that there are a few well documented UFO crashes that the
public would be aware of. I would like to set a base line for
what is regarded as a genuine UFO crash ( with occupants ) for
further discussion. You also make a reference to pilots and
aircraft being lost in, I assume, the pursuit of UFO. Again,
which incident(s) are you referring to ?

If UFOs were responsible for the 1965 blackout of northeastern
America, were they not then also involved in the recent blackout
which Canada seems to have been blamed for ?

You mention that "secret" safe zones were established in the
1960s to enable UFOs to land safely. If these were really
secret, how come we found out about them? Where can I find more
reliable, factual information about this.

<snip>

>The more sophisticated the technology, the more often it is
>subject to major catastrophic failures, intentional or
>accidental. One reason the U.S. military wants to dominate space
>is that not only communications but a lot of their hi-tech
>equipment and weapons systems can only function properly if
>their satellites remain intact and are fully operational. Just
>because we believe the occupants of UFOs are more advanced than
>we are technologically doesn't mean that they are any less
>vulnerable to crashes than we are when moving around in our own
>skies.

Okay, I can accept to a certain extent that the more technology
is complicated, the greater the chance for failure. ( Like my PC
!!!! ) However, when we talk ET technology, it is so radically
different to ours that we cannot assume that a similar chance
for failure exists. And if ancient texts are correct, these ET
have been flying around in our skies for a good few thousand
years. It would be reasonable to assume that such obviously
advanced technology would have been refined to the point where
failure is insignificant. I am making one assumption here of
course and that is that we are indeed dealing with ET technology
in these crashes and not " someone " elses.

<snip>

>Actually, our own spacecraft have crashed on the Moon many
>times. The first time was by the unmanned Soviet spaceprobe Luna
>2 in 1959. Later other unmanned Soviet and U.S. spaceprobes and
>lunar landers, including the Ranger and Surveyor series of lunar
>probes, crashed on the Moon.

>During the Apollo years, the SIVB upper stage of many of the
>powerful Saturn V rockets that sent the U.S. astronauts to the
>surface of the Moon also crashed there too. After the two Moon
>walkers joined up with the third astronaut in lunar orbit, they
>jettisoned and crashed the upper stage of the LEM, which they no
>longer needed for the return trip home, on the Moon too.

>In more recent times (1998), NASA's unmanned Lunar Prospector
>too was intentionally crashed into a large crater at one of the
>poles where sunlight never reaches in the hope of kicking up
>some frozen water that scientists suspected was there from
>Clementine, a U.S. defense probe that was also sent to the Moon
>in 1994 (but did not crash).


The incidents you refer to above are all unmanned missions with
virtually no redundancy systems on board. Some were crashed on
purpose. In comparison, we do not have any evidence for an alien
probe of any sort ever crashing on any continent. What we do
have are UFO crashes where the occupants are either killed or
captured by the military. And in all cases, the pilots appear to
be Greys according to the reports. As far as I can find out,
there has never been a crash with " Blonde" occupants. Anybody
care to hazard a guess as to why this should be ?


Regards to all,

Noel Herbiet





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                    Re: UFO Crashes Questioned - Herbiet

From: Noel Herbiet <2orpheus6@telkomsa.net>
Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 20:46:17 +0200
Fwd Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 06:19:38 -0400
Subject: Re: UFO Crashes Questioned - Herbiet


>From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22@fastmail.fm>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 09:31:03 -0800
>Subject: Re: UFO Crashes Questioned

>>From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 11:26:37 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
>>Subject: Re: UFO Crashes Questioned

>>>From: Noel Herbiet <2orpheus6@telkomsa.net>
>>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>>>Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 19:15:26 +0200
>>>Subject: UFO Crashes Questioned

><snip>

>>The more sophisticated the technology, the more often it is
>>subject to major catastrophic failures, intentional or
>>accidental. One reason the U.S. military wants to dominate space
>>is that not only communications but a lot of their hi-tech
>>equipment and weapons systems can only function properly if
>>their satellites remain intact and are fully operational. Just
>>because we believe the occupants of UFOs are more advanced than
>>we are technologically doesn't mean that they are any less
>>vulnerable to crashes than we are when moving around in our own
>>skies.

>Nick,

>I wrote about this in my first book about 13 years ago.
>Some find it hard to believe that a spacecraft flown by
>technically advanced races could be prone to interference or
>malfunction. A simple review of our own air crashes involving
>technically sophisticated aircraft such a the F-16 or B-1B
>bomber refutes that idea. In fact there is support for the idea
>that highly complicated electronic systems can be prone to
>malfunction when subjected to radio, radar, or microwave
>emissions.

>Random noise can occur in transistors and other semiconductor
>devices. Any electric device which receives electromagnetic
>radiation will pick up random noise as well as signals.

>An article in the Los Angeles Times (11/9/1987) stated that
>routine radio wavs can knock the Army's most advaanced battle
>transport helicopters out of the sky.

>An electromagnetic craft such as a flying saucer may also
>be susceptible to EM radiation.


Hi Bill

Thanks for your comments re. UFO crashes.

I must disagree with you however, regarding your assumption as
to the technology that UFO propulsion might be based on. I am an
electrical/electronic engineer involved in developmental
technology field. Yes, we may regard the F-16 or B-1B bomber as
sophisticated within our own frame of reference. However these
devices are actually very primitive and rely entirely on speed
and acquired lift for their performance. For sure they are
fantastic and we may well pat ourselves on the back for having
developed such technology. But in comparison to UFO performance
levels, we are playing around.

UFO technology is most definitely not based on our concept of
electronics or control systems. Based on observations, we have
a UFO craft that is capable of incredible speed and mass
displacement without the gravitational disadvantage. We also
have a craft that leaves no fuel conversion residue during these
maneuvers and it's debatable whether an atmosphere disturbance
even results from the craft's passage.

And then we have the apparent absence of pilot interface systems
as described by some abductees.

This all tells me that we are dealing with a technology way beyond
our own and it might even be questionable whether we would
even recognize it as technology should we be faced with it.
Unless of course one works for Area 51 and retro-engineer these
craft for a living.

Anybody got any ideas based on observation or insider info
as to what UFO propulsion technology is about ?


Regards to all,

Noel Herbiet






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               Re: 'Grey' Photographed In Graveyard? - Tonnies

From: Mac Tonnies <macbot@yahoo.com>
Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 18:22:47 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 06:21:07 -0400
Subject: Re: 'Grey' Photographed In Graveyard? - Tonnies


>From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby@aol.com>
>Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 18:52:53 EDT
>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
>Subject: 'Grey' Photographed In Graveyard?

<snip>

>http://www.ghoststudy.com/monthly/sep03/crypt.htm

>Hadn't seen this one before and it ought to be a
>good one for the 'Photoshop' experts.

From the website:

"A friend sent this photo to me for examination. The story goes
as follows: My ex-husband is an avid hunter, traveling to deer
blinds across southeast Missouri. He is a technology buff and
uses night vision goggles to traverse the terrain so they can be
in the blind at daybreak. On this trip, near Cape Girardeau last
year, when they had to go through a cemetery about 3 miles from
town. With a camera attached to the night vision goggles, they
snapped some shots of the cemetery. I developed the film for
them. This was the first shot on the roll; it doesn't show this
on any other shots."

This "photo" has been making the rounds for a while. My first
question: what are the odds of a hunter equipped not only with
night-vision goggles, but a night-vision camera as well? The
alleged hunter's wife seems to think that the goggles explain
the night-vision photograph -- they don't. Since there's no
mention at all of night-vision photographic equipment (a strange
thing for a hunter to be toting around anyway), I feel pretty
confident that this account (and the image) are fabricated.

On another note, it's interesting that this supposedly happened
in Cape Girardeau, Missouri. According to the "new" MJ-12
documents, there was a UFO crash there in 1939.


Mac Tonnies
macbot@yahoo.com

Explore MTVI @ http://www.mactonnies.com

Posthuman Blues: http://posthumanblues.blogspot.com (daily blog)





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   Sep > Sep 29

                      Myrtle Beach Sightings Since 1995

From: Eustaquio Andrea Patounas <socex@terra.com.br>
Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 18:38:59 -0300
Fwd Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 08:37:09 -0400
Subject: Myrtle Beach Sightings Since 1995


Source: Myrtle Beach Sun News - South Carolona

http://www.myrtlebeachonline.com/mld/sunnews/news/local/6880907.htm

Sep. 28, 2003

Myrtle Beach Area - Reported UFO sightings since 1995

There have been 18 reported UFO sightings in the Myrtle Beach
area since 1995. Seven of those sightings occurred this summer:

SEPT. 10 - A circle-shaped object with bright red lights
appeared off the coast of North Myrtle Beach at about 6:30 p.m.
In a 45-minute period, extremely bright red lights would appear
in different places, last for about five seconds, then
disappear. There were about eight sightings in 45 minutes.

SEPT. 10 - A pair of circle-shaped objects with orange/red
lights were spotted off the coast of Myrtle Beach at about 8:30
p.m. The lights flashed on and off for several seconds before
disappearing.

SEPT. 9 - Four orange lights, visible for about 10 seconds, were
spotted over Myrtle Beach at about 10 p.m. The lights were
configured in a way that they appeared to be the headlights of a
car.

SEPT. 9 - A sphere-shaped object described as yellow or orange
in color appeared off the coast of Myrtle Beach at about 11:30
p.m. The sphere was visible for about 10 minutes before
disappearing.

SEPT. 8 - Balls of bright orange light were reported in
different parts of the sky over the ocean in North Myrtle Beach
at about 11 p.m. The person filing the report said he and his
wife have seen similar lights over the ocean during three
previous trips to North Myrtle Beach.

AUG. 26 - Over a two-hour period, bright orange lights were
spotted off the coast of Myrtle Beach at about 11 p.m. by a
couple stargazing and observing Mars. The lights were visible
for a few seconds, then disappeared before reappearing in
different locations.

JUNE 24 - A circular object with three red lights was spotted
over Conway at about 11 p.m. The object was visible for about
four minutes before disappearing.

SEPT. 19, 2002 - A small but very bright light was spotted over
the ocean in Myrtle Beach at about 9:45 p.m. The light,
witnessed by 10 adults at a campground, pulsed about five times
in a 15-second period before disappearing.

AUG. 18, 2002 - Two women, ages 22 and 24, saw a bright orange
light split into two lights over the ocean in Myrtle Beach at
about 11:45 p.m. The incident lasted about three seconds.

AUG. 17, 2002 - Three people spotted bright red and orange
circular lights over the ocean in Myrtle Beach at about 10 p.m.
The oval-shaped lights faded within five seconds and were
followed by white/blue/silver lights that appeared to rotate
around the first light. This repeated for about 2=BD hours.

OCT. 5, 2001 - Three people vacationing in Myrtle Beach saw
three large, circular lights over the ocean at about 11 p.m. The
lights went out one after the other like light bulbs, the report
states.

JUNE 5, 2000 - A person witnessed a triangle-shaped object
moving erratically in the sky over Conway at about 10 p.m. The
object passed over the area for about 15 minutes before
disappearing.

NOV. 17, 1999 - A teardrop-shaped object was seen in the sky
over Conway at about 4:17 p.m. The object, which had a vivid
orange tail, moved toward the horizon.

JULY 20, 1999 - Three triangle-shaped objects were seen moving
at high speeds across the sky above Myrtle Beach at about 1 a.m.

DEC. 21, 1998 - The driver of a truck reported a disk-shaped
object traveling quickly in the sky above U.S. 17 Bypass heading
north at about 2:10 a.m. The glowing green object was tracked
for about 10 minutes before it disappeared.

JULY 20, 1997 - A diamond-shaped object resembling an airplane
hovered between 200 feet and 300 feet above the ground in Conway
for about two hours, starting at 10 p.m. The object had four
white lights, a green light and a red light.

MARCH 11, 1996 - An Horry County resident and two county
sheriff's deputies witnessed a large object with a ring of
lights move from ground level to tree level in Conway at about
11:30 p.m.

SUMMER 1995 - Five lights traveling fast in a V-pattern were
spotted over the ocean in Myrtle Beach at about 3:15 a.m. The
lights stopped, moved into a circular formation, then took off
in different directions at high speeds. The person reporting the
event wasn't sure of the exact date.

Source: National UFO Reporting Center







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                 07-06-03 Summerville South Carolina Footage

From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO <hbccufo@telus.net>
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 00:26:11 -0700
Fwd Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 08:43:06 -0400
Subject: 07-06-03 Summerville South Carolina Footage


Summerville, South Carolina UFO Footage

Report From HBCC UFO Research
Director: Brian Vike
HBCC UFO Research
hbccufo@telus.net

UFO Footage Shot On July 6, 2003 at 8:32 p.m
[Time display on video footage]

Video footage - =A92003 L.G.B./L.G.M
http://rogue.asiwebdesign.com/

A strange object was captured on film by Mrs. Linda Moore from
her home in South Carolina. Linda's husband noticed a bright
object high in the sky. He called to her to come and see what he
was looking at. She appeared with her camcorder which has a 500
digital zoom to film it. As she zoomed in on it... the object
took on a strange and unusual shape and she recorded it for
approximately three minutes.

Some in the UFO field however, thought because she had used a
digital camera, that the object was possibly fabricated. Sadly,
after exclusive rights to the footage was denied to some of
these researchers... they decided to refer to the film as a
probable hoax.

HBCC UFO however was sent a copy of the UFO footage on VHS
format and it was received on Tuesday, September 23, 2003. From
what I saw on film there was certainly something very strange
flying over the skies of South Carolina on that day, and the
Moores' were two of the lucky ones to have not only seen such a
sight but also to have filmed it. The object was noticed flying
from a north east direction, perhaps from over the coastline.

I was fascinated by what I viewed on the tape. When the object
first appears in the clear blue sky, the witness has the camera
zoomed out and catches an extremely bright white, round object.
As she tracks it slowly moving in the sky, Mrs. Moore zooms in
and catches what appears to be a mushroom shaped object. It
takes on a dome shape with something in the center. Whatever it
is inside seems to hold a number of colors, ranging from a pink,
green and blue and it seems to be shining, or maybe the sun is
reflecting off it.

An interesting part of the film is a portion of a tree which is
between the object and the witness. With the object at a good
distance away, the tree and it's leaves provide a good reference
point which allows us to gauge not only the direction but also
how fast the object is moving, plus how it travels through the
air. It moves down and has a similar appearance to how one would
see a jellyfish swimming through the ocean.

As the object drifts slowly downwards the top of the dome
appears to bulge in and out slightly at times. At one point it
briefly comes to a complete stop, and then with ease it floats
back up a short distance and stops for a split second and moves
down and to the right. It stops again and starts back up.

It seems to travel very smoothly... no jerking or erratic
movements can be witnessed. Again it climbs in altitude and
begins to descend once again and at this point a couple of the
leaves are almost blocking the view of the object. However, in
the gaps between the leaves it can still be seen very easily and
then it appears in the open with nothing blocking the view.
(This portion of the footage was viewed at a slower speed).

I ran the tape back a few frames to where the unknown was still
behind the leaves. I then played the tape at the normal speed
and was surprised to see how quickly it was able to move after
it came out from behind the foliage. After a short burst of
speed, not moving very far in the sky, it again seemed to slow
and maneuvers around in a tight space. Mrs. Moore at this point
catches a great shot of something which is sitting near the
bottom, but inside of the mushroom. Again the colors from
something that is inside this cloud can be seen shining very
brightly. The object seems to just hang there in one spot.

Linda moved to a better seating position close to the same area
where she was, but the object was not found again, it had
disappeared. As it was getting on to dusk and the moon was
visible she took a shot of it to reiterate that what she had
seen was definitely not the moon.

This footage in my opinion is amazing. It clearly shows
something very strange and unexplained in the sky on that day.
It's a wonderful example of an unidentified flying object.


Brian Vike
Director HBCC UFO Research
Canadian Toll Free UFO Hotline 1 866 262 1989 - Free call.
Home - Phone/Fax 1 250 845 2189
HBCC UFO Forum Board
http://216.147.50.102/HBCC-UFO/index.php
email: hbccufo@telus.net
Website: http://www3.telus.net/public/wilbur8/hbcc_ufo_research.htm







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   Sep > Sep 30

                     Airdrie, Alberta - August 23, 2003

From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO <hbccufo@telus.net>
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 21:19:11 -0700
Fwd Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 05:59:51 -0400
Subject: Airdrie, Alberta - August 23, 2003


Airdrie, Alberta

Date:  August 23, 2003
Time:  1:20 a.m.

I had a telephone call from a couple who resides in Airdrie,
Alberta and they have informed me that they saw a very strange
object over a two night period. It also came back on another
occasion a few days later but did not stay in the vicinity very
long. I talked with the fellow (retied military man) first of
all and this is his report he gave me.

The object at one point sat straight over top of their home and
was the size of a baseball. The witnesses location is a little
south west from Airdrie on the west side of Highway #2. The
color on the object changed from white to orange and back again.
The object did turn a brilliant blue at one time. The fellow
said it was stationary over his home for minutes, then could
move from east to west and continue carrying out these types of
maneuvers. The fellow actually thought the object was intrigued
with the fire they had going in the backyard. He told me the
total amount of time the couple watched the object was around
two hours. (HBCC UFO Note: Due to the large amount of time the
object was witnessed, I asked if the object moved with other
astronomical bodies in the sky, and the fellow said no !) He
said whatever it was, was moving all over the sky. To make it
clear, whatever they were looking at, I was told when they
looked away, then looked back at the object, it was in a
different part of the sky. Then would make it's move back to
where it came from. Both of the witness thought it moved to get
out of the way of air traffic as there were aircraft active in
that area. They also watched the object move up and down, then
move far over to the right, drop down a ways, then move back to
the left. (HBCC UFO Note: Both of the folks used the roof of
their home as a referrerence point so they knew how far the
object moved to the left, right and up and down. At some points
in this sighting, they would lose sight of it due to it dropping
behind the roof, but it would rise back up again.

He took a guess and figured the object was sitting at approx:
5000 feet and could see the roundness of it. He told me there
was sound coming from it. He described it like being a vent
people have on the top of their roofs. (the rotating kind, but
the sound was at a very low level). Also when the sound was
heard, lights would come on around the circumference of it.

I also asked if they had any pets who were with them at the time
of the sighting. He said yes. The fellow told me in his words,
the three cats went a little squirrelly. He said they seem to
cower down, ears fell back and two of then started to hiss.

HBCC UFO Note: The below information comes from the gentleman's
wife. I will not give out what her occupation is as it could
cause problems if this information came out.

The wife told me the object would have been located approx:
5,000 feet in altitude as she has knowledge of how the aircraft
fly in and out of the airport. She said it was certainly
hovering around the airport area and the night was very calm and
silent. She also confirmed the object did make a strange low
pitched noise which she thought was rather eerie. From what she
observed, she could see white lights running around the object
and another light sitting at the bottom of the craft and it
would change from orange to blue. When the object moved in any
direction all the white lights went out, but the light at the
bottom did stay on, when the object came to a complete stop, the
white lights running around it came back on. She said it was
definitely round in shape. She said they both thought they were
seeing things and did not want to tell anyone about it due to
others thinking they were crazy. But it sounds like to me the
witnesses had a good seat for an exciting display.

Thank you to both of the witnesses for their report.

Brian Vike, Director
HBCC UFO Research
Canadian Toll Free UFO Hotline 1 866 262 1989 - Free call.
Home - Phone/Fax 1 250 845 2189
HBCC UFO Forum Board
http://216.147.50.102/HBCC-UFO/index.php
email: hbccufo@telus.net
Website: http://www3.telus.net/public/wilbur8/hbcc_ufo_research.htm






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   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Sep > Sep 30

                     Airdrie, Alberta - August 23, 2003

From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO <hbccufo@telus.net>
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 21:19:11 -0700
Fwd Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 09:20:09 -0400
Subject: Airdrie, Alberta - August 23, 2003


Airdrie, Alberta

Date:  August 23, 2003
Time:  1:20 a.m.

I had a telephone call from a couple who resides in Airdrie,
Alberta and they have informed me that they saw a very strange
object over a two night period. It also came back on another
occasion a few days later but did not stay in the vicinity very
long. I talked with the fellow (retied military man) first of
all and this is his report he gave me.

The object at one point sat straight over top of their home and
was the size of a baseball. The witnesses location is a little
south west from Airdrie on the west side of Highway #2. The
color on the object changed from white to orange and back again.
The object did turn a brilliant blue at one time. The fellow
said it was stationary over his home for minutes, then could
move from east to west and continue carrying out these types of
maneuvers. The fellow actually thought the object was intrigued
with the fire they had going in the backyard. He told me the
total amount of time the couple watched the object was around
two hours. (HBCC UFO Note: Due to the large amount of time the
object was witnessed, I asked if the object moved with other
astronomical bodies in the sky, and the fellow said no !) He
said whatever it was, was moving all over the sky. To make it
clear, whatever they were looking at, I was told when they
looked away, then looked back at the object, it was in a
different part of the sky. Then would make it's move back to
where it came from. Both of the witness thought it moved to get
out of the way of air traffic as there were aircraft active in
that area. They also watched the object move up and down, then
move far over to the right, drop down a ways, then move back to
the left. (HBCC UFO Note: Both of the folks used the roof of
their home as a referrerence point so they knew how far the
object moved to the left, right and up and down. At some points
in this sighting, they would lose sight of it due to it dropping
behind the roof, but it would rise back up again.

He took a guess and figured the object was sitting at approx:
5000 feet and could see the roundness of it. He told me there
was sound coming from it. He described it like being a vent
people have on the top of their roofs. (the rotating kind, but
the sound was at a very low level). Also when the sound was
heard, lights would come on around the circumference of it.

I also asked if they had any pets who were with them at the time
of the sighting. He said yes. The fellow told me in his words,
the three cats went a little squirrelly. He said they seem to
cower down, ears fell back and two of then started to hiss.

HBCC UFO Note: The below information comes from the gentleman's
wife. I will not give out what her occupation is as it could
cause problems if this information came out.

The wife told me the object would have been located approx:
5,000 feet in altitude as she has knowledge of how the aircraft
fly in and out of the airport. She said it was certainly
hovering around the airport area and the night was very calm and
silent. She also confirmed the object did make a strange low
pitched noise which she thought was rather eerie. From what she
observed, she could see white lights running around the object
and another light sitting at the bottom of the craft and it
would change from orange to blue. When the object moved in any
direction all the white lights went out, but the light at the
bottom did stay on, when the object came to a complete stop, the
white lights running around it came back on. She said it was
definitely round in shape. She said they both thought they were
seeing things and did not want to tell anyone about it due to
others thinking they were crazy. But it sounds like to me the
witnesses had a good seat for an exciting display.

Thank you to both of the witnesses for their report.

Brian Vike, Director
HBCC UFO Research
Canadian Toll Free UFO Hotline 1 866 262 1989 - Free call.
Home - Phone/Fax 1 250 845 2189
HBCC UFO Forum Board
http://216.147.50.102/HBCC-UFO/index.php
email: hbccufo@telus.net
Website: http://www3.telus.net/public/wilbur8/hbcc_ufo_research.htm





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   Sep > Sep 30

                   Re: UFO Crashes Questioned - Stevenson

From: Colin Stevenson <colin@c2k2.fsworld.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 11:13:04 +0100
Fwd Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 10:13:21 -0400
Subject: Re: UFO Crashes Questioned - Stevenson


>From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys@rogers.com>
>To: <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 22:56:13 -0300
>Subject: Re: UFO Crashes Questioned

>>From: Colin Stevenson <colin@c2k2.fsworld.co.uk>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 20:03:12 +0100
>>Subject: Re: UFO Crashes Questioned

>>>From: Noel Herbiet <2orpheus6@telkomsa.net>
>>>To: <ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net>
>>>Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 19:15:26 +0200
>>>Subject: UFO Crashes Questioned

>>>The seemingly renewed interest in UFO crashes has prompted me to
>>>ask the members of this list what their personal take is on this
>>>rather alarming characteristic. I say alarming because if we are
>>>to believe all that is written, there have been quite a few
>>>alleged UFO crashes which implies that either these ET folk are
>>>rotten pilots or that we have a weapon capable of crippling such
>>>a craft or that in fact, the number of crashes are proportional
>>>to the number of fly-bys which would imply that they must be
>>>buzzing our skies a very great deal.

<snip>

>>Not sure if this comment is of any use but look at the great
>>number and percentage of losses of Earth >Mars probes
>>over the years rather than merely the Moon probes/landings.

>>There is also some indicators that the ET propulsion is a great
>>deal different to our rockets etc and could be adversely
>>affected by some Earth environs or Human activities/equipment.
>>According to the Disclosure Project ET does not like radioactive
>>sources so this may be one of the factors in ET crashes. Free
>>Energy also does not like radioactivity, even very low levels,
>>so this may point to a Free Energy drive of ET craft too and may
>>actually explain the Roswell ET crashes ( previous atomic weapon
>>tests ).

>How in the world does the Disclosure project know what ET likes
>or what supposed free energy likes???

>>There is also some pointers to the Reich deep well experiments
>>(excessively strong confined free energy upward emissions) and
>>very strong radar emissions being contributing factors for ET
>>craft crashes. The latter could account for incidences of ET
>>craft near radar, airports and prior to Earthquakes in that they
>>are trying out new tech or accustoming the pilot to these
>>confined unusual Earth environments.

>>All the forgoing presumes ET real, which I personally believe
>>they are, and/or that they are altered/advanced human life forms
>>and/or time travelers and/or from a different dimension to our
>>reality and/or any combinations of all four.

>>There is also some indicators that some ET may be telepathic,
>>control their craft by thought and are very distracted by some
>>Human's thought process's which could cause crashes maybe in
>>combination with the above.

>We have abductees indicating that ET's are telepathic... what
>data do we have to say they control the craft by telepathy?


Hi Stan and List

It would seem to me that the questions raised at first post and
subsequent theoretical answers all seem very valid indeed to
prompt such detailed further inquiry. As this is a discussion
forum then a discussion is good.

Stan, you ask for our proof of what we say, as do others, and
also wish us to explain ourselves based on detail knowledge of
which we have spent much time and a great deal of expense with
sometimes risking our lives to obtain. As most folk know of what
is discussed, because they too do very good research, I don't
think answering pointed questions on minor details is wise or
called for.

If folk want to lead our research or find out details then we
all must agree that some incentive must be given for us to do
so. Disincentives are not the way to obtain information so that
will be the answer to your questions.


Col

http://www.colsweb.com







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   Sep > Sep 30

              Re: 'Grey' Photographed In Graveyard? - Stevenson

From: Colin Stevenson <colin@c2k2.fsworld.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 12:33:31 +0100
Fwd Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 10:38:33 -0400
Subject: Re: 'Grey' Photographed In Graveyard? - Stevenson


>From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby@aol.com>
>Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 18:52:53 EDT
>To: ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net
>Subject: 'Grey' Photographed In Graveyard?

>The URL goes to a two picture display with a one paragraph
>explanation of a photo of a 'Grey' wandering about a cemetary.

>http://www.ghoststudy.com/monthly/sep03/crypt.htm
>
>Hadn't seen this one before and it ought to be a good one for
>the 'Photoshop' experts.


Quite evident is the fatal injuries to upper right arm and upper
left leg which reasons why the gray is a ghost.

Grimace.

Can't see any bags of steaming rice in that shot though?

http://www.colsweb.com/gray.htm < as in this one??!!

Col







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   Sep > Sep 30

                   Directions To Graham Birdsall's Funeral

From: Max Burns <max.burns@ntlworld.com>
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 15:11:22 +0100
Fwd Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 10:41:57 -0400
Subject: Directions To Graham Birdsall's Funeral


Dear List,

For UpDates UK subscribers. I have spoken to Russel Callaghan
this morning. He has supplied these directions for anyone
wishing to attend Graham's funeral.

Russel told me that all are welcome to the Church and
also the Hilton after the funeral.

Maxwell Burns

-----

Hi Max.

Thank you for calling.

St Mary's Church Whitkirk is situated on Selby Road in Leeds. If
you get really lost ask anyone to point to the brown cow on
Selby road.

Motorway directions:

M1 from Sheffield of course. Once you pass the M62 Manchester
Hull intersection stay with the M1 it goes into about 6 lanes
just after the M62 turn off you want to get over to the left and
follow M1 North you should have signs for butterfly world and
temple newsham.

You carry on for about three miles under a metal girder type
bridge (still on the motorway). Take the next turn off I think
it shows airport and ring road it's a mile after the bridge.

1st exit off the slip road, Sainsbury's McD's on your left,
straight across the roundabout to the next roundabout second
exit traffic lights 500 yards ahead Church is on left. Best to
park on main road or in Brown Cow car park opposite.

The Hilton hotel is back to sainsbury's but straight over the
roundabout this time heading to Garforth, 1 mile next roundabout
hotel on right.

See you there Max.

Russel.

UFO Magazine UK is published by:
Quest Publications Int Ltd
Valley Farm Way
Stourton
Leeds
LS10 1SA
England

Tel 0870 7575836
FAX 0113 2709672







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   Sep > Sep 30

                  OSI Reports In Project Bluebook Archives?

From: Keith Chester <projectbluebook@erols.com>
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 10:41:38 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 10:44:18 -0400
Subject: OSI Reports In Project Bluebook Archives?


Hello List,

I am writing to those who have extensive knowledge pertaining to
the National Archives holdings of the Project Bluebook Files.

I have already spoken with one researcher about this, asking him
if I have assessed the situation correctly.  I'm looking for
other researchers input in the event there are some details that
I've overlooked.

The National Archives has 94 reels of micro-film, dating from
1947 through 1969. These reels are, of course, copies of the
original records which are also at the archives, but are not
available for review. There are also a few miscellaneous boxes
of hard copy case files, that I assume are either duplicates or,
for some reason, not on the microfilm.

Some of the hard copy records are from the Air Force Office of
Special Investigations (OSI) and apparently on the micro-film
too. I'm just a little confused by why some records are not on
the micro-film. It also puzzles me why these original files can
be reviewed, but the records on the 94 rolls of micro-film are
not available.

There are boxes of the 4602 Air Intelligence Service Squadron
for review in original form. There are boxes for review marked
"artifact" case files.

I'm confused by the inclusion of the OSI reports within Project
Bluebook records. That is, why would the OSI hand over their
records, especially if they were conducting an investigation on
their own, to the Bluebook personnel? Why wouldn't they, the
OSI, have their own set of micro-film? If the OSI operatives
were working on a case with Bluebook personnel, or visa-versa,it
seems to me that each party would have generated their own
report. This would be normal intelligence agency protocol. What
is known about the lack of these OSI records? Or, was the OSI
instructed to hand over all UFO reports to the Project Bluebook
data base?

Finally, were there three separate groups, Bluebook, OSI, 4602,
conducting UFO investigations, separately and together, with
pretty much an unorganized system of filing, poor operational
procedures and a lack of co-ordination with each other?


Thanks,

Keith







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              Sci Fi's Kecksburg Crash Documentary Airs October

From: Steven Kaeser <steve@konsulting.com>
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 13:52:16 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 10:46:23 -0400
Subject: Sci Fi's Kecksburg Crash Documentary Airs October


The SciFi Channel's selection of programming for Tuesday
Declassified has not, IMO, been the best, but they have a number
of shows to be aired in the next several weeks that may be much
more properly researched and more informative. This includes a
Sci Fi Channel production on the Kecksburg crash that will air
on Friday, October 24.

In their Tuesday tine slot they will also air a program on the
Avrocar on September 30th, a repeat of "Out of the Blue" on
October 7th, as well as several other UFO related programs that
they've obtained.  If anyone is curious, details can be found
at:

http://www.scifi.com/onair/declassified/


Steve







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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
   Sep > Sep 30

                    Re: UFO Crashes In Africa - Jonnaert

From: Thierry Jonnaert <thierry.jonnaert@pandora.be>
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 20:58:53 +0200
Fwd Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 10:56:14 -0400
Subject: Re: UFO Crashes In Africa - Jonnaert


Hi List,

We have a certain number of very interesting cases in Africa. We
are not talking about crashes now, but Africa is much richer in
UFO - cases, we should think!

Thanks L. Hatch & co. to help me to discover this continent in
another way ! I was sleeping in the desert of Tunesia and close
to Algeria, but... no UFOs when I was there... only scorpions!

This week I became very interested in those cases...and it seems
the CIA was also very interested in the same cases before !!!
Therefore our American and Canadian friends - collecting all
kind of UFO-cases - should analyse all this.( They will discover
similar points with some American or Russian cases )

For example:

The golden bell shaped nightime UFO near Kampala in Uganda in
1954 - Sept.13. In this site you will also discover the extract
from an FOIA declassified UFO REPORT.

http://www.chez.com/lesovnis/htm/faqafrica.htm

Or this one...

Augustus 16, 1954 in MADAGASCAR we got a flying object, a green
hazy lens... and this object was followed by a kind of metallic
football-shaped object (both 40 meters ). Thousands of
inhabitants of Tananarive could observe all this in full
daylight !

You will find the full report on this case - fully documented.
in the same site. The GEPA bulletin in the 2nd half of 1964
described this observation.

Another African case who was followed by the CIA, is the case of

Bocaranga, Ubangi Shari (Equator) in 1952, Nov. 22 : It's about
a glowing disc and four other discs observed by several
witnesses etc.. Discover a part of the now declassified CIA
report in the same site!

The last I will mention...is the case of Belgian Congo (1952)...
see the CIA newsclip (same site)... about the 2 flying discs
over the uranium mines (did we heard this before? Of course...it
seems that Aliens were/are very interested in uranium,
electricity etc. and the same was happening in Russia or this
part of Europe. That I'm sure!)

Of course... you will obtain more information about a certain
number of the most amazing cases in Africa. The flying discs and
other UFOs were observed in every continent! - also Russia,
Japan, Australia, South America, Europe... but Africa is richer
in cases than we think ! )

Have a nice day.....


Thierry Jonnaert







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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2003 >
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                    Re: UFO Crashes Questioned - Balaskas

From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos@YorkU.CA>
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 15:20:54 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
Fwd Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 10:58:13 -0400
Subject: Re: UFO Crashes Questioned - Balaskas


>From: Eric Jacobson <ejacobson74@comcast.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 21:32:59 -0400
>Subject: Re: UFO Crashes Questioned

>>From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22@fastmail.fm>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates@sympatico.ca>
>>Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 09:31:03 -0800
>>Subject: Re: UFO Crashes Questioned

<snip>

>>Some find it hard to believe that a spacecraft flown by
>>technically advanced races could be prone to interference or
>>malfunction.

>>Random noise can occur in transistors and other semiconductor
>>devices. Any electric device which receives electromagnetic
>>radiation will pick up random noise as well as signals.

>>An article in the Los Angeles Times (11/9/1987) stated that
>>routine radio wavs can knock the Army's most advaanced battle
>>transport helicopters out of the sky.

>Please guys, what are these "well documented UFO crashes?" I am
>unaware of any. The most extensively investigated case - Roswell
>- is far from conclusive. Not to mention where is the physical
>evidence of all these crashes?. Or do you believe that they only
>crash in places where the US can go and retrieve them before
>anyone else gets any evidence? That really strains credulity.

Hi Eric!

The 1967 Shag Harbour, Nova Scotia incident is just one of these
well documented. With this particular UFO crash, it was not UFO
investigators that decided that to label the object that crashed
off shore a "UFO" but the numerous official government, military
and RCMP documents uncovered from the archives and through
Access to Information requests that called it that! There are
many living witnesses to this UFO crash, many of whom played
major roles in the attempted recovery operation (which
eventually involved the U.S. and the interest of the Soviets
too). Of these witnesses, there are some so disturbed by what
they saw and experienced that refuse to discuss it with people
other than their immediate families and closest friends. Unlike
the Roswell UFO crash, thanks partly to the quick response by
the Canadian navy which allowed for a rescue and repair mission
(by the ETs themselves?) to go ahead with little interference,
this UFO crash had a happier ending. Further details about this
UFO crash - and the province wide UFO flap - leading to it can
be found in Don Ledger's and Chris Styles' book 'Dark Object'.

>Not that I don't believe there are ET craft in the Earth's
>atmosphere. That actually is well documented.

>The idea that we can compare their craft to ours, to
>'transistors and semiconductor devices' and 'EM' fields is
>exactly like some pre-industrial natives somewhere seeing a
>stealth bomber fly over and thinking that it must work like a
>boomerang.

>Why would you supposed that a technology which might be
>thousands or tens of thousands years ahead of our own could be
>understood in terms of our primitive devices?

>Anthromorphocentrism.

Electricity and magnetism plays a major role in the make-up of
the universe as we understand it and is so much a part of who we
are physically. The presence of EM fields not only make it
possible to see things (visible light is EM in nature) but to
interpret what we see too (our brains produce and are influenced
by EM fields). If UFOs operate on EM principles, then they are
certainly very vulnerable to the EM environment they operate in.

So for this reason, I do not think it is anthromorphocentrism if
we assume that future technologies must also have a basis in
electricity and magnetism - much like our ancient technology did
too (eg. the "Baghdad battery" is thought to have been used to
produce light or to electroplate metals; the magnetic compass
helped our ancestors avoid getting lost; etc.).


Nick Balaskas