UFO UpDates
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   Feb

                          UFO UpDates Mailing List
                                  Feb 2004

  Feb 1:

   New Site Honors John Keel - George Hansen [5]
   Reward Offered For Bennewitz Picture - Grant Cameron [16]
   Re: Russia Surpasses Americans In Space Race - - Ray Stanford [95]
   Re: Has A UFO Ever Killed A Diesel Engine? - Hall - Richard Hall [8]
   Re: Witness Frustration - Hall - Richard Hall [17]
   Re: Witness Frustration - Friedman - Stan Friedman [16]
   Re: Roswell UFO & TV's 'Space Patrol' - Friedman - Stan Friedman [8]
   Re: Russia Surpasses Americans In Space Race - - Ray Stanford [8]
   Re: Russia Surpasses Americans In Space Race - - Nick Balaskas [46]
   Re: Russia Surpasses Americans In Space Race - - Lan Fleming [23]
   Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Velez - John Velez [52]
   Re: Extraterrestrial Edge Helps The Balance Sheet - Diana Cammack [5]
   Re: Linda Cortile Re-Surfaces - Cammack - Diana Cammack [4]
   Re: Russia Surpasses Americans In Space Race - - Josh Goldstein [15]
   Re: Review Of 'Sight Unseen' By Hopkins & Rainey - - Luis R. Gonzalez
   [122]
   The Anomalist Book Awards 2003 Announced - Loren Coleman [22]
   Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Heber - Amy Hebert [45]
   Michael J. Woods On NASA's Motives - Eleanor White [37]
   Re: Roswell UFO & TV's 'Space Patrol' - Boone - Greg Boone [15]
   Re: Witness Frustration - Boone - Greg Boone [26]
   Re: Witness Frustration - Boone - Greg Boone [25]
   Re: Russia Surpasses Americans In Space Race - - Mike Woods [48]
   President Names Eight Moon Advisers - Steven L. Wilson Sr [40]
   Re: Witness Frustration - Velez - John Velez [23]
   Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Velez - John Velez [44]
   Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Velez - John Velez [37]
   Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Christol - Michael Christol
   [7]
   Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Bright - Dan Bright [18]
   Elements 113 And 115 Discovered - William Wise [170]
   Re: Russia Surpasses Americans In Space Race - - Stan Friedman [14]
   Re: Has A UFO Ever Killed A Diesel Engine? - St. - Greg St. Pierre [31]
   Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Ledger - Don Ledger [22]
   Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Velez - John Velez [49]
   Re: Has A UFO Ever Killed A Diesel Engine? - Ledger - Don Ledger [18]
   Re: Michael J. Woods On NASA's Motives - Woods - Mike Woods [39]
   Re: Are UFOs Real? - Lehmberg - Alfred Lehmberg [41]
   Silent Post In Memory Of The Shuttle Columbia Crew - Terry Groff [0]

  Feb 2:

   Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Ledger - Don Ledger [25]
   Re: Michael J. Woods On NASA's Motives - Fleming - Lan Fleming [34]
   Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Chapman - Mary Chapman [23]
   Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Bright - Dan Bright [20]
   Re: Are UFOs Real? - Friedman - Stan Friedman [20]
   Resend: Colin Andrew's Lightning UFO Photo - Dave Haith
   visions@ntlworld.com=20 [44]
   Re: Russia Surpasses Americans In Space Race - - GT McCoy [16]
   Nigeria Lists Rumored Plane Crash As UFO - Kenny Young [39]
   Mexican Aviation Techs Claim Having Seen UFO - Scott Corrales [36]
   Re: New European UFO Survey - Burns - Max Burns [12]
   Re: UFO ROUNDUP Mystery Van, V9 #4 - Hatc - Larry Hatch [19]
   Re: Reporter Claims UFO Over Home Of UK Tory - Max Burns [6]
   Re: Has A UFO Ever Killed A Diesel Engine? - Hatch - Larry Hatch [62]
   Scientists "We're All From Mars" - UFO UpDates - Toronto [93]
   Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Hebert - Amy Hebert [49]
   Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Velez - John Velez [14]
   Re: Extraterrestrial Edge Helps The Balance Sheet - Diana Cammack [6]
   Re: UFOs And Coloured Lights? - Shough - Martin Shough [43]
   Re: Review Of 'Sight Unseen' By Hopkins & Rainey - - Gildas Bourdais
   [29]
   Rescuers Doubt Nigerian 'Crash' Plane Existed - Frank Warren [39]
   Hello Earthlings! - Frank Warren [142]
   Re: Michael J. Woods On NASA's Motives - Stanford - Ray Stanford [22]
   Re: Are UFOs Real? - Lehmberg - Alfred Lehmberg [28]
   Re: President Names Eight Moon Advisers - Maccabee - Bruce Maccabee [3]
   Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Maccabee - Bruce Maccabee [6]
   Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Velez - John Velez [37]
   Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Velez - John Velez [25]
   The Rampaging Virus That's Going Around - John Velez [27]
   Strange Sighting Puzzles Satellite-Watcher - Frank Warren [39]
   Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Velez - John Velez [14]
   Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Velez - John Velez [35]
   Secrecy News --02/02/04 - Steven Aftergood [115]
   Re: New European UFO Survey - Hall - Richard Hall [8]
   Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Hatch - Larry Hatch [71]
   Re: Has A UFO Ever Killed A Diesel Engine? - Shell - Tim Shell [17]

  Feb 3:

   Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Hatch - Larry Hatch [18]
   Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Bright - Dan Bright [22]
   Re: Has A UFO Ever Killed A Diesel Engine? - White - Eleanor White [18]
   Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Velez - John Velez [67]
   Re: Review Of 'Sight Unseen' By Hopkins & Rainey - - Luis R. Gonzalez
   [39]
   Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Velez - John Velez [8]
   Re: Review Of 'Sight Unseen' By Hopkins & Rainey - - Tim Shell [21]
   Re: Has A UFO Ever Killed A Diesel Engine? - Hatch - Larry Hatch [15]
   Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Bright - Dan Bright [24]
   Re: Review Of 'Sight Unseen' By Hopkins & Rainey - - Luis R. Gonzalez
   [24]
   Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Bright - Dan Bright [23]
   Re: Strange Sighting Puzzles Satellite-Watcher - - Stan Friedman [10]
   Laws And Leaks Of Classified Intelligence - Terry W. Colvin [7]
   Re: UFO ROUNDUP Volume 9, Number 4 - Balaskas - Nick Balaskas [24]
   Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Harrison - Diane Harrison
   [47]
   Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Ledger - Don Ledger [10]
   Re: SETI Taps The Grid - Miller - Stuart Miller [58]
   Janet Jackson & UFOs - Greg Boone [27]
   Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Ledger - Don Ledger [14]
   Re: Strange Sighting Puzzles Satellite-Watcher - - Don Ledger [3]
   Re: Colin Andrew's Lightning UFO Photo - Maccabee - Bruce Maccabee [14]
   Re: Laws And Leaks Of Classified Intelligence - - Stan Friedman [8]
   Re: Janet Jackson & UFOs - Kaeser - Steven Kaeser [10]
   Re: SETI Taps The Grid - Warren - Frank Warren [43]
   Re: Review Of Sight Unseen - Miller - Stuart Miller [40]

  Feb 4:

   Secrecy News -- 02/03/04 - Steven Aftergood [129]
   UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 9 Number 5 - John Hayes [854]
   Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Velez - John Velez [28]
   Re: Review Of 'Sight Unseen' By Hopkins & Rainey - - Larry Hatch [24]
   Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Hatch - Larry Hatch [20]
   Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Harrison - Diane Harrison
   [35]
   Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Harrison - Diane Harrison
   [26]
   State Of Ufology - Richard Hall [22]
   Re: Janet Jackson & UFOs - Maccabee - Bruce Maccabee [11]
   Re: Janet Jackson & UFOs - Rimmer - John Rimmer [10]
   Re: Michael J. Woods On NASA's Motives - Fleming - Lan Fleming [11]
   Re: UFO ROUNDUP Volume 9, Number 4 - Stanford - Ray Stanford [149]
   Re: Review Of Sight Unseen - Bourdais - Gildas Bourdais [5]
   Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Hatch - Larry Hatch [38]
   UFOs Seen By Mexican Aviation Experts - Eustaquio Andrea Patounas [32]
   Need Photos Of Utah Farm - A. J. Gevaerd - Revista UFO [10]
   Element 115 'Discovered' - Larry Hatch [38]
   'The Farewell Dossier' - Frank Warren [90]
   Re: Review Of 'Sight Unseen' By Hopkins & Rainey - - Tim Shell [24]
   Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Shough - Martin Shough [33]
   Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Shough - Martin Shough [7]
   Filer's Files #06-2004 - George A. Filer [508]
   Re: Element 115 'Discovered' - McCoy - GT McCoy [8]
   Re: Review Of Sight Unseen - Velez - John Velez [26]
   Re: State Of Ufology - Gehrman - Ed Gehrman [26]
   Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Hebert - Amy Hebert [42]

  Feb 5:

   Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Balaskas - Nick Balaskas [25]
   Re: Michael J. Woods On NASA's Motives - Stanford - Ray Stanford [17]
   Law To Protect Bigfoot? - Louise A. Lowry [41]
   Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Velez - John Velez [15]
   Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Harrison - Diane Harrison
   [44]
   Re: Review Of Sight Unseen - Harney - John Harney [13]
   Re: Michael J. Woods On NASA's Motives - Stanford - Ray Stanford [12]
   Re: State Of Ufology - Hall - Richard Hall [13]
   Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Velez - John Velez [68]
   NASA Chief Plans New Space Quests - Frank Warren [51]
   The Beveridge UFO - Frank Warren [49]
   UFOs Disappear From Northern Norway - Frank Warren [40]
   Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Hebert - Amy Hebert [16]
   Tracing The Flow Of The Gulf Breeze Money - Jerry Black [102]
   Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Maccabee - Bruce Maccabee
   [12]
   Re: Need Photos Of Utah Farm - Gates - Robert Gates [34]
   Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Ledger - Don Ledger [5]
   Re: State Of Ufology - Young - Kenny Young [15]
   Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Maccabee - Bruce Maccabee
   [87]
   Re: Review Of Sight Unseen - Lehmberg - Alfred Lehmberg [22]
   Re: The Beveridge UFO - Shell - Tim Shell [1]
   UFOs Abound - Frank Warren [31]
   Re: State Of Ufology - Kaeser - Steven Kaeser [19]
   Re: Review Of Sight Unseen - Miller - Stuart Miller [60]
   Mystery Crash Confounds Nigerians - Frank Warren [32]
   Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Hebert - Amy Hebert [63]
   Re: 'Snowdown flyer' Spawns Mystery - Warren - Frank Warren [62]
   Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Velez - John Velez [28]
   Re: State Of Ufology - Boone - Greg Boone [45]
   Re: Tracing The Flow Of The Gulf Breeze Money - - John Velez [12]
   Secrecy News - 02/05/04 - Steven Aftergood [131]
   Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Stanford - Ray Stanford [6]
   Re: "Sight Unseen:" Distortions and Innuendos - - Katharina Wilson [31]
   Re: Review Of Sight Unseen - Rimmer - John Rimmer [17]
   Re: Review Of Sight Unseen - Harney - John Harney [29]
   Re: Tracing The Flow Of The Gulf Breeze Money - - Alfred Lehmberg [24]

  Feb 6:

   Re: State Of Ufology - Gehrman - Ed Gehrman [47]
   Re: The Beveridge UFO - Stanford - Ray Stanford [5]
   Re: The Beveridge UFO - Harrison - Diane Harrison [34]
   Re: Tracing The Flow Of The Gulf Breeze Money - - Bruce Maccabee [81]
   Re: Review Of Sight Unseen - Pope - Nick Pope [37]
   Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Harrison - Diane Harrison
   [42]
   Re: Michael J. Woods On NASA's Motives - Fleming - Lan Fleming [42]
   Re: New European UFO Survey - Burns - Max Burns [8]
   Re: "Sight Unseen:" Distortions And Innuendos - - Ray Stanford [39]
   Re: State Of Ufology - Clark - Jerome Clark [47]
   Reports To HBCC UFO - 02-05-04 - Brian Vike - HBCC UFO [401]
   Re: Tracing The Flow Of The Gulf Breeze Money - - Robert Gates [23]
   Re: "Sight Unseen:" Distortions and Innuendos - - Luis R. Gonzalez [68]
   Re: State Of Ufology - Kaeser - Steven Kaeser [17]
   Re: Review Of Sight Unseen - Miller - Stuart Miller [26]
   Re: Michael J. Woods On NASA's Motives - Lehmberg - Alfred Lehmberg
   [16]
   Re: The Beveridge UFO - Warren - Frank Warren [3]
   Re: State Of Ufology - Goldstein - Josh Goldstein [57]
   Re: State Of Ufology - Shell - Tim Shell [2]
   Re: Janet Jackson & UFOs - Boone - Greg Boone [55]
   Re: Tracing The Flow Of The Gulf Breeze Money - - Richard Hall [11]
   Re: The Beveridge UFO - Shell - Tim Shell [28]
   Re: The Beveridge UFO - Warren - Frank Warren [38]

  Feb 7:

   Re: Review Of Sight Unseen - Miller - Stuart Miller [35]
   Jim Mortellaro - Alfred Lehmberg [41]
   Re: Review Of Sight Unseen - Gonzalez - Luis R. Gonzalez [46]
   Re: New European UFO Survey - Hall - Richard Hall [15]
   Nigeria Quashes Air Crash Rumour - Terry W. Colvin [45]
   Re: State Of Ufology - Dickenson - Ray Dickenson [32]
   Re: Janet Jackson & UFOs - Kaeser - Steven Kaeser [15]
   Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Maccabee - Bruce Maccabee
   [29]
   Re: State Of Ufology - Gehrman - Ed Gehrman [13]
   Re: State Of Ufology - Clark - Jerome Clark [13]
   Re: The Beveridge UFO - Stanford - Ray Stanford [6]
   Re: "Sight Unseen:" Distortions and Innuendos - - Katharina Wilson
   [117]
   Re: Sight Unseen:" Distortions And Innuendos - - Katharina Wilson [10]
   Houston, British Columbia - 12-08-03 - Brian Vike - HBCC UFO [69]
   Re: The Beveridge UFO - Ledger - Don Ledger [2]
   Pa. D.A. Nixes Prospect For Grand Jury Re Kecksburg - Larry W. Bryant
   [91]
   Re: Tracing The Flow Of The Gulf Breeze Money - - Kenny Young [57]
   Re: Tracing The Flow Of The Gulf Breeze Money - - Kenny Young [35]
   UFO On Mars? - Alfred Lehmberg [18]
   Re: State Of Ufology - Kaeser - Steven Kaeser [36]
   Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Hatch - Larry Hatch [58]
   Re: State Of Ufology - Hall - Richard Hall [26]
   UFOs Call Town Home - UFO UpDates - Toronto [39]
   Re: The Beveridge UFO - Hall - Richard Hall [11]
   Re: Review Of Sight Unseen - McGonagle - Joe McGonagle [10]
   Re: "Sight Unseen:" Distortions and Innuendos - - Luis R. Gonzalez [80]
   Re: Tracing The Flow Of The Gulf Breeze Money - - Richard Hall [8]
   Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Bright - Dan Bright [13]
   Re: Nigeria Quashes Air Crash Rumour - Ledger - Don Ledger [7]
   Re: State Of Ufology - Hatch - Larry Hatch [42]
   Re: Houston, British Columbia - 12-08-03 - Ray Stanford [91]
   Re: The Beveridge UFO - Hatch - Larry Hatch [20]
   Re: UFOs Call Town Home - Hatch - Larry Hatch [11]
   Re: The Beveridge UFO - Ledger - Don Ledger [54]
   Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Ledger - Don Ledger [20]
   Re: The Beveridge UFO - Stanford - Ray Stanford [37]
   6 UFO Sighting Reports This Morning - Brian Vike - HBCC UFO [12]
   Re: Michael J. Woods On NASA's Motives - Rudiak - David Rudiak [28]
   Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Stanford - Ray Stanford [5]
   Re: Review Of Sight Unseen - Harney - John Harney [29]
   Re: UFO On Mars? - Balaskas - Nick Balaskas [53]

  Feb 8:

   Re: "Sight Unseen:" Distortions and Innuendos - - Katharina Wilson [45]
   Re: The Beveridge UFO - Velez - John Velez [48]
   Houston Resident Busy Researching Sightings In The - Brian Vike - HBCC
   UFO [55]
   Re: State Of Ufology - Dickenson - Ray Dickenson [30]
   Re: UFO On Mars? - Velez - John Velez [11]
   Re: UFO On Mars? - Stockstill - Bill Stockstill [7]
   Re: The Beveridge UFO - Ledger - Don Ledger [32]
   Re: UFO On Mars? - Groff - Terry Groff [15]
   Re: UFO On Mars? - McCoy - GT McCoy [6]
   Re: New European UFO Survey - Burns - Max Burns [8]
   Houston British Columbia 1985 - Brian Vike - HBCC UFO [47]
   Re: Nigeria Quashes Air Crash Rumour - Stanford - Ray Stanford [9]
   Re: Tracing The Flow Of The Gulf Breeze Money - - Robert Gates [39]
   Jim Mortellaro #2 - Alfred Lehmberg [93]
   Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Bright - Dan Bright [8]
   Re: Tracing The Flow Of The Gulf Breeze Money - - Bruce Maccabee [19]
   Re: The Beveridge UFO - Warren - Frank Warren [23]
   Ted Phillips' Physical Traces Update - Ted Phillips - I.A.I. [128]
   Brazilian National Skywatch - Eustaquio Andrea Patounas [20]
   Re: Jim Mortellaro - John Velez [32]
   Harrassment - Has It Happened To You? - Greg Boone [12]
   Re: UFO On Mars? - Lehmberg - Alfred Lehmberg [24]
   Re: UFO On Mars? - Lehmberg - Alfred Lehmberg [20]
   Re: UFO On Mars? - Groff - Terry Groff [11]

  Feb 9:

   Re: Harrassment - Has It Happened To You? - - Joe McGonagle [29]
   Re: The Beveridge UFO - Stanford - Ray Stanford [84]
   Re: UFO On Mars? - Lehmberg - Alfred Lehmberg [14]
   Re: UFO On Mars? - McGonagle - Joe McGonagle [17]
   Re: Jim Mortellaro - Gonzalez - Luis R. Gonzalez [9]
   Re: Review Of Sight Unseen - Miller - Stuart Miller [67]
   Re: State Of Ufology - Kaeser - Steven Kaeser [12]
   Re: UFO On Mars? - Groff - Terry Groff [11]
   Re: UFO On Mars? - Ledger - Don Ledger [4]
   Re: The Beveridge UFO - Ledger - Don Ledger [27]
   Re: The Beveridge UFO - Ledger - Don Ledger [27]
   Re: Review Of Sight Unseen - Pope - Nick Pope [52]
   Re: Ted Phillips' Physical Traces Update - Stanford - Ray Stanford [12]
   Re: Harrassment - Has It Happened To You? - Pope - Nick Pope [38]
   Re: Ted Phillips' Physical Traces Update - Friedman - Stan Friedman [3]
   Re: UFO On Mars? - Stanford - Ray Stanford [63]
   Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Hatch - Larry Hatch [14]
   Re: Harrassment - Has It Happened To You? - Hebert - Amy Hebert [251]
   Re: The Beveridge UFO - Warren - Frank Warren [77]
   Re: Ted Phillips' Physical Traces Update - Friedman - Stan Friedman
   [15]
   Re: UFO On Mars? - Groff - Terry Groff [10]

  Feb 10:

   Secrecy News -- 02/09/04 - Steven Aftergood [149]
   2003 Canadian UFO Survey News Release - Chris Rutkowski [51]
   Re: Jim Mortellaro - Velez - John Velez [25]
   Re: The Beveridge UFO - Warren - Frank Warren [26]
   Re: The Beveridge UFO - Velez - John Velez [38]
   Re: State Of Ufology - Dickenson - Ray Dickenson [36]
   Re: Jim Mortellaro - Alfred Lehmberg [78]
   Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Shough - Martin Shough [30]
   Re: Review Of Sight Unseen - Sandow - Greg Sandow [119]
   Re: Review Of Sight Unseen - Harney - John Harney [62]
   Re: Harrassment - Has It Happened To You? - Wilson - Katharina Wilson
   [102]
   Professor Searches For Aliens - Frank Warren [114]
   Re: Harrassment - Has It Happened To You? - Boone - Greg Boone [25]
   Services/UFO/Space? - Larry Hatch [36]
   Prince George British Columbia Lights - Brian Vike - HBCC UFO [203]
   Stupidity In The New Age Of Anti-Science - Frank Warren [133]
   Oxygen Detected In Wake Of Extrasolar Planet - Frank Warren [24]
   Re: Harrassment - Has It Happened To You? - Warren - Frank Warren [16]
   Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Williams - Walt Williams [52]
   Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Shell - Tim Shell [12]
   Re: Review Of Sight Unseen - Bourdais - Gildas Bourdais [14]
   Re: Services/UFO/Space? - Groff - Terry Groff [7]
   Re: The Beveridge UFO - Hebert - Amy Hebert [40]
   Re: Harrassment - Has It Happened To You? - - Geoffrey Richardson [12]
   Re: The Beveridge UFO - Stanford - Ray Stanford [134]
   UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 9 Number 6 - John Hayes [872]
   Re: Review Of Sight Unseen - Velez - John Velez [67]
   Re: The Beveridge UFO - Shough - Martin Shough [16]

  Feb 11:

   The 2003 Canadian UFO Survey - UFO UpDates - Toronto [1034]
   Secrecy News -- 02/10/04 - Steven Aftergood [96]
   Re: Review Of Sight Unseen - Gonzalez - Luis R. Gonzalez [42]
   Re: Harrassment - Has It Happened To You? - Boone - Greg Boone [18]
   Re: Harrassment - Has It Happened To You? - Boone - Greg Boone [24]
   Re: Review Of Sight Unseen - Pope - Nick Pope [23]
   Close Encounter On Highway 7 - UFO UpDates - Toronto [65]
   Mystery Object Spotted From Space Station - UFO UpDates - Toronto [29]
   Re: Review Of Sight Unseen - Gonzalez - Luis R. Gonzalez [22]
   Re: Harrassment - Has It Happened To You? - - Bill Stockstill [41]
   Re: The Beveridge UFO - Stanford - Ray Stanford [157]
   Re: The Beveridge UFO - Velez - John Velez [49]
   Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Bright - Dan Bright [24]
   Re: Harrassment - Has It Happened To You? - Pope - Nick Pope [24]
   Re: Stupidity In The New Age Of Anti-Science - - Tim Shell [19]
   Re: Harrassment - Has It Happened To You? - - Geoffrey Richardson [7]
   Re: Harrassment - Has It Happened To You? - Pope - Nick Pope [27]
   Re: Services/UFO/Space? - Stanford - Ray Stanford [9]
   Re: The Beveridge UFO - Ledger - Don Ledger [47]
   Re: The Beveridge UFO - Ledger - Don Ledger [4]
   30 Years On - Is This Our Greatest UFO Mystery? - UFO UpDates - Toronto
   [63]
   Re: The Beveridge UFO - Maccabee - Bruce Maccabee [146]
   Re: Harrassment - Has It Happened To You? - Velez - John Velez [44]
   Re: Harrassment - Has It Happened To You? - Novak - John Novak [227]
   Re: Review Of Sight Unseen - Goldstein - Josh Goldstein [36]
   Re: The 2003 Canadian UFO Survey - Hatch - Larry Hatch [8]
   Re: Review Of Sight Unseen - Cammack - Diana Cammack [9]
   Re: Oxygen Detected In Wake Of Extrasolar Planet - - Walt Williams [14]
   Re: Review Of Sight Unseen - Miller - Stuart Miller [58]
   Re: The Beveridge UFO - Lehmberg - Alfred Lehmberg [20]
   Re: Stupidity In The New Age Of Anti-Science - - Stuart Miller [98]
   Experts Studying ISS Object Photos - Frank Warren [29]
   Mysterious Object Floats Away From ISS - Frank Warren [38]
   INEXPLICATA #12 On-Line - Scott Corrales [7]
   Interviews With Edgar Mitchell - Bill Hamilton [228]
   Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Williams - Walt Williams [41]
   Re: Review Of Sight Unseen - Sandow - Greg Sandow [4]
   Re: The Beveridge UFO - Stanford - Ray Stanford [104]
   Re: The Beveridge UFO - Ledger - Don Ledger [17]
   Re: The Beveridge UFO - Stanford - Ray Stanford [18]
   Re: The Beveridge UFO - Stanford - Ray Stanford [8]
   Re: The Beveridge UFO - Stanford - Ray Stanford [7]
   Re: The Beveridge UFO - Stanford - Ray Stanford [9]
   Re: Review Of Sight Unseen - Velez - John Velez [48]

  Feb 12:

   Vancouver Tops In UFO Sightings Across Canada - Frank Warren [20]
   Many Unanswered Questions About Nigerian Plane - Frank Warren [206]
   Re: The Beveridge UFO - Sensi - Darren Sensi [25]
   Secrecy News -- 02/11/04 - Steven Aftergood [137]
   Re: The Beveridge UFO - Hebert - Amy Hebert [41]
   Humans In MicroGravity - Walt Williams [24]
   Re: Harrassment - Has It Happened To You? - White - Eleanor White [22]
   Re: Experts Studying ISS Object Photos - Balaskas - Nick Balaskas [11]
   Re: The Beveridge UFO - Hall - Richard Hall [9]
   Off-Season UFOs - Larry Hatch [39]
   Re: The Beveridge UFO - Balaskas - Nick Balaskas [23]
   Physical Trace Events & 2003 Canadian UFO Survey - Ted Phillips -
   I.A.I. [14]
   Re: The Beveridge UFO - Maccabee - Bruce Maccabee [20]
   Re: The Beveridge UFO - Maccabee - Bruce Maccabee [4]
   Re: Harrassment - Has It Happened To You? - Pope - Nick Pope [27]
   Re: The Beveridge UFO - Ledger - Don Ledger [16]
   Re: The Beveridge UFO - Ledger - Don Ledger [4]
   Re: Stupidity In The New Age Of Anti-Science - - Larry Hatch [42]
   Space Ghost - Louise A. Lowry [112]
   What Does A Martian Look Like? - Louise A. Lowry [89]
   Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Shough - Martin Shough [22]
   Re: Experts Studying ISS Object Photos - Warren - Frank Warren [8]
   "Birth Of Cloned Boy Medical Equivalent Of UFO - Frank Warren [23]
   Rocket Man - Frank Warren [346]
   Re: The Beveridge UFO - Ledger - Don Ledger [13]
   Black Hole Mayhem - Frank Warren [37]
   Reality Check: Spheres On Mars Not Fossils - Frank Warren [111]
   Water, Water Everywhere - Frank Warren [143]
   Space Photo Contents Often Are All In Eye Of The - Frank Warren [119]
   Re: The Beveridge UFO - Hebert - Amy Hebert [116]
   Re: Off-Season UFOs - Hall - Richard Hall [8]
   Re: Physical Trace Events & 2003 Canadian UFO - Don Ledger [19]
   Re: The Beveridge UFO - Shough - Martin Shough [42]
   Re: The Beveridge UFO - Lehmberg - Alfred Lehmberg [14]
   Re: Stupidity In The New Age Of Anti-Science - - Tim Shell [14]
   Re: The Beveridge UFO - Velez - John Velez [38]
   50 Years Ago The Coniston UFO Photograph - Chris Parr [18]
   Re: Harrassment - Has It Happened To You? - - Geoffrey Richardson [13]

  Feb 13:

   Re: The Beveridge UFO - Stanford - Ray Stanford [52]
   Re: The Beveridge UFO - Ledger - Ray Stanford [10]
   Re: 50 Years Ago The Coniston UFO Photograph - - Alfred Lehmberg [21]
   Re: Harrassment - Has It Happened To You? - White - Eleanor White [3]
   Re: "Birth Of Cloned Boy Medical Equivalent Of UFO - GT McCoy [5]
   Re: Off-Season UFOs - Hatch - Larry Hatch [27]
   Re: Off-Season UFOs - Hatch - Larry Hatch [17]
   Re: 50 Years Ago The Coniston UFO Photograph - - Tim Shell [14]
   Secrecy News -- 02/13/04 - Steven Aftergood [142]

  Feb 14:

   Re: Review Of Sight Unseen - Bourdais - Gildas Bourdais [30]
   Re: Off-Season UFOs - Shell - Tim Shell [12]
   Re: Off-Season UFOs - Dickenson - Ray Dickenson [17]
   Re: 50 Years Ago The Coniston UFO Photograph - - Steven Kaeser [20]
   Re: Space Ghost - Maccabee - Bruce Maccabee [2]
   Re: UN Petition Update - Velez - John Velez [22]
   Fatima & UFOs [was Re: The Beveridge UFO] - Ray Stanford [125]
   Re: 50 Years ago The Coniston UFO Photograph - Parr - Chris Parr [27]
   Re: Harrassment - Has It Happened To You? - - Geoffrey Richardson [2]
   Yukon UFO Buff Fascinated By The Unexplained - UFO UpDates - Toronto
   [89]
   1956 Lunar Path Light - Ted Phillips, I.A.I. [11]
   Re: 50 Years ago The Coniston UFO Photograph - - Alfred Lehmberg [28]
   Re: 1956 Lunar Path Light - Franz - Cap. Alejandro Franz [8]
   Re: 50 Years Ago The Coniston UFO Photograph - - Larry Hatch [34]
   Re: Off-Season UFOs - Hatch - Larry Hatch [27]
   Re: The Beveridge UFO - Bright - Dan Bright [11]
   Re: 50 Years ago The Coniston UFO Photograph - - Joe McGonagle [25]
   Transit Of Venus A Rare Celestial Phenomenon - Frank Warren [38]
   Reporter Spoke To Suspect During Standoff - Frank Warren [43]
   Re: 1956 Lunar Path Light - Stanford - Ray Stanford [23]
   Re: 1956 Lunar Path Light - Phillips - Ted Phillips - I.A.I. [4]
   Trots In Space - Terry W. Colvin [34]
   Excalibur Briefing - Chris Burns [13]
   Aaron Sorkin's Fictional Treatment Of UFOs - Alfred Lehmberg [40]
   For Jaime Maussan - John Velez [9]
   Re: 1956 Lunar Path Light - Shough - Martin Shough [4]
   Re: 1956 Lunar Path Light - Shell - Tim Shell [2]
   Re: Off-Season UFOs - Shell - Tim Shell [8]

  Feb 15:

   "Like A Giant Star" - UFO UpDates - Toronto [30]
   In Search Of Other-Worldly Truths - UFO UpDates - Toronto [71]
   Re: 1956 Lunar Path Light - Fleming - Lan Fleming [10]
   Re: UN Petition Update - White - Eleanor White [12]
   Re: For Jaime Maussan - Burns - Max Burns [3]
   Re: 1956 Lunar Path Light - Oberg - James Oberg [6]
   Re: Harrassment - Has It Happened To You? - White - Eleanor White [29]
   Re: 50 Years ago The Coniston UFO Photograph - - Alfred Lehmberg [48]
   Re: Off-Season UFOs - Dickenson - Ray Dickenson [16]
   West Coast Screenings Of 'Touched' With Dr. John - [76]
   Re: The Beveridge UFO - Stanford - Ray Stanford [8]
   Re: Off-Season UFOs - Pope - Nick Pope [93]
   Re: 1956 Lunar Path Light - Maccabee - Bruce Maccabee [4]
   Re: Humans In MicroGravity - Pope - Nick Pope [13]
   Re: For Jaime Maussan - Boone - Greg Boone [16]
   Re: Harrassment - Has It Happened To You? - Boone - Greg Boone [31]
   Re: "Like A Giant Star" - Ledger - Don Ledger [35]
   Re: 1956 Lunar Path Light - Ledger - Don Ledger [6]
   Re: 1956 Lunar Path Light - Balaskas - Nick Balaskas [45]
   Re: Excalibur Briefing - Shell - Tim Shell [7]
   The "Bunny" And The Mainstream Media's Literalism - Mac Tonnies [21]
   Approaching Comet C/2002 T7 - Nick Balaskas [39]
   Re: 1956 Lunar Path Light - Stanford - Ray Stanford [6]
   Anonymous Caller Claims "Intimate" Monsanto Status - Kenny Young [48]
   Re: 1956 Lunar Path Light - Fleming - Lan Fleming [12]
   Re: The "Bunny" And The Mainstream Media's - GT McCoy [7]
   Re: 1956 Lunar Path Light - Maccabee - Bruce Maccabee [18]
   Blue Hare - Redux [was: 50 Years ago The - Max Burns [141]

  Feb 16:

   Re: 1956 Lunar Path Light - Stanford - Ray Stanford [7]
   Re: Off-Season UFOs - Hebert - Amy Hebert [67]
   Filer's Files #07-2004 - George A. Filer [470]
   Re: Off-Season UFOs - Hatch - Larry Hatch [33]
   Re: Excalibur Briefing - Burns - Chris Burns [20]
   Re: Off-Season UFOs - Hatch - Larry Hatch [66]
   Re: 1956 Lunar Path Light - Fleming - Lan Fleming [5]
   HBCC UFO Reports - 02-15-04 - HBCC UFO [173]
   Team Locates Farthest Galaxy From Earth - Frank Warren [12]
   Re: Off-Season UFOs - Pope - Nick Pope [25]
   Re: Team Locates Farthest Galaxy From Earth - Boone - Greg Boone [8]
   Re: 1956 Lunar Path Light - Balaskas - Nick Balaskas [34]
   Re: Excalibur Briefing - White - Eleanor White [6]
   Re: Team Locates Farthest Galaxy From Earth - Shell - Tim Shell [15]
   Re: Excalibur Briefing - Harney - John Harney [9]
   Klass' Papers At American Philosophical Society - Richard Hall [14]
   Re: Off-Season UFOs - Dickenson - Ray Dickenson [42]
   Re: Excalibur Briefing - Hall - Richard Hall [17]
   Re: 1956 Lunar Path Light - Velez - John Velez [18]
   Re: Excalibur Briefing - Hall - Richard Hall [4]

  Feb 17:

   Re: Klass' Papers At American Philosophical - Alfred Lehmberg [11]
   Re: Excalibur Briefing - White - Eleanor White [26]
   Re: Off-Season UFOs - Chapman - Mary Chapman [306]
   Re: Team Locates Farthest Galaxy From Earth - - Nick Balaskas [54]
   Re: Excalibur Briefing - Burns - Chris Burns [8]
   Re: Excalibur Briefing - Gehrman - Ed Gehrman [7]
   Re: Excalibur Briefing - Gehrman - Ed Gehrman [5]
   Re: 1956 Lunar Path Light - Sparks - Brad Sparks [6]
   The Aliens Have Landed On e-Bay - Royce J. Myers III [5]
   Re: Klass' Papers At American Philosophical - GT McCoy [4]
   Re: Klass' Papers At American Philosophical - Bruce Maccabee [7]
   Re: 1956 Lunar Path Light - Maccabee - Bruce Maccabee [5]
   Re: Klass' Papers At American Philosophical - Stan Friedman [18]
   Mystery Light Seen Above NSW Australia - Frank Warren [23]
   With Close-Ups of Mars The Mystery Gets Lost In - Frank Warren [94]
   Raelians Commemorate Giordano Bruno's Assassination - Frank Warren [55]
   Re: Excalibur Briefing - Hatch - Larry Hatch [13]
   Re: Off-Season UFOs - Hatch - Larry Hatch [20]
   Excerpt From 'Valley Of The UFOs' - UFO UpDates - Toronto [38]
   Re: Raelians Commemorate Giordano Bruno's - Alfred Lehmberg [12]
   Re: 1956 Lunar Path Light - Oberg - James Oberg [23]
   Re: 1956 Lunar Path Light - Oberg - James Oberg [6]
   Re: Excalibur Briefing - Hall - Richard Hall [9]
   Re: Klass' Papers At American Philosophical - Richard Hall [12]
   Re: The Aliens Have Landed On e-Bay - Shell - Tim Shell [1]
   Re: 1956 Lunar Path Light - Lehmberg - Alfred Lehmberg [9]
   UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 9 Number 7 - John Hayes [246]
   Alien Country: Earthlings Welcome - Frank Warren [60]
   Re: 1956 Lunar Path Light - Stanford - Ray Stanford [39]
   Re: Klass' Papers At American Philosophical - Richard Hall [10]
   Re: Excalibur Briefing - Koch - Joachim Koch [27]
   Secrecy News -- 02/17/04 - Steven Aftergood [114]
   Re: Excalibur Briefing - Gehrman - Ed Gehrman [45]
   Re: The "Bunny" And The Mainstream Media's - Paul Anderson [55]
   Close Encounter Yours For $1.3m - Frank Warren [66]
   Re: Raelians Commemorate Giordano Bruno's - Ray Stanford [5]
   Re: Off-Season UFOs - Dickenson - Ray Dickenson [23]
   Re: Off-Season UFOs - Dickenson - Ray Dickenson [23]
   Re: 1956 Lunar Path Light - Shell - Tim Shell [10]

  Feb 18:

   60's Pilot Sighting Reports - Brian Vike - HBCC UFO [64]
   Re: Excalibur Briefing - Shell - Tim Shell [23]
   Re: Excalibur Briefing - Hall - Richard Hall [10]
   Re: 1956 Lunar Path Light - Velez - John Velez [14]
   Re: Excalibur Briefing - Hall - Richard Hall [18]
   Re: Excalibur Briefing - Hatch - Larry Hatch [14]
   Whittlesea UFO Photograph Enhancements - Barry Taylor [9]
   Re: 1956 Lunar Path Light - Franz - Capt. Alejandro Franz [98]
   Re: Close Encounter Yours For $1.3m - McCoy - GT McCoy [11]
   Re: Off-Season UFOs - Maccabee - Bruce Maccabee [36]
   Re: Close Encounter Yours For $1.3m - Maccabee - Bruce Maccabee [12]
   Re: 1956 Lunar Path Light - Franz - Capt. Alejandro Franz [109]
   Re: Excalibur Briefing - Novak - John Novak [29]
   Re: 1956 Lunar Path Light - Hebert - Amy Hebert [54]
   Magonia Supplement No. 49 - John Rimmer [498]
   Re: Off-Season UFOs - Hall - Richard Hall [9]
   Can People Go To Mars? - Nick Balaskas [39]
   Re: Excalibur Briefing - Hatch - Larry Hatch [31]
   Re: 60's Pilot Sighting Reports - Hatch - Larry Hatch [18]
   Re: Excalibur Briefing - Shough - Martin Shough [28]
   Re: 1956 Lunar Light Path - Demary - UFO UpDates - Toronto [27]

  Feb 19:

   Raelians Commemorate Giordano Bruno's - Gildas Bourdais [5]
   Bearden's Mail Order Ph.D - Larry Hatch [18]
   Re: Excalibur Briefing - Shell - Tim Shell [14]
   Re: Excalibur Briefing - Hall - Richard Hall [35]
   Tell Jim Moseley Exactly What You Think Of Him! - Karl Pflock [36]
   Re: Link to FOTOCAT News February 2004 - Olmos - Vicente-Juan Ballester
   Olmos [19]
   Re: Off-Season UFOs - Hatch - Larry Hatch [23]
   Australian Fire Ball - Diane Harrison [41]
   Re: 1956 Lunar Path Light - Velez - John Velez [27]
   Re: Whittlesea UFO Photograph Enhancements - Hebert - Amy Hebert [42]
   Strange Lights In Sky Reported By Resident - Brian Vike - HBCC UFO [66]
   Filer's Files #08-2004 - George A. Filer [572]
   Near Huntsville Alabama Report - Brian Vike - HBCC UFO [80]
   UFO Sighted Over City - Frank Warren [28]
   Another 50th Anniversary Of Note - Steven Kaeser [151]
   Extraterrestrial Visitor In Russian Province - Frank Warren [139]
   Re: Raelians Commemorate Giordano Bruno's - Alfred Lehmberg [17]
   Re: Bearden's Mail Order Ph.D - Shell - Tim Shell [2]
   Re: Raelians Commemorate Giordano Bruno's - Terry Groff [5]
   Re: 1956 Lunar Path Light - Velez - John Velez [6]
   Secrecy News -- 02/19/04 - Steven Aftergood [145]
   Re: Excalibur Briefing - Geiger - Bob Geiger [2]

  Feb 20:

   Re: Excalibur Briefing - Hall - Richard Hall [5]
   Re: Bearden's Mail Order Ph.D - Shough - Martin Shough [30]
   Re: Excalibur Briefing - Kaeser - Steven Kaeser [1]
   Re: Raelians Commemorate Giordano Bruno's - John Velez [12]
   Apollo 16 Film [was: 1956 Lunar Path Light] - Lan Fleming [57]
   Re: Excalibur Briefing - Rimmer - John Rimmer [6]
   CI: The 'Mainstream' Considers Mud on Mars - Mac Tonnies [15]
   Re: Bearden's Mail Order Ph.D - Hatch - Larry Hatch [11]
   Cuba Wins Award For UFO Documentary - Scott Corrales [33]
   BLURFOs - Bill Hamilton [6]
   Is It Or Isn't It? - Frank Warren [32]
   Ike And The Alien Ambassadors - UFO UpDates - Toronto [13]
   The Illuminati - Greg Boone [29]
   Re: BLURFOs - Stanford - Ray Stanford [16]
   Re: BLURFOs - Velez - John Velez [65]

  Feb 21:

   Re: The Illuminati - Chapman - Mary Chapman [12]
   Explanations For MOC #M08--04688 - White - Vince White [35]
   Re: BLURFOs - Hebert - Amy Hebert [20]
   Re: BLURFOs - Miller - Stuart Miller [13]
   ET's No Alien To Santa Feans - Will Bueche [79]
   Shuttle Will Never Fly - Terry W. Colvin [150]
   Georgina Bruni On UK Radio - Nick Pope [14]
   Another Planet Found Orbiting Our Sun - Nick Balaskas [27]
   2004 Humanoid Reports To 02-20 - Albert Rosales [255]
   Re: The Illuminati - Koch - Joachim Koch [18]
   Re: Excalibur Briefing - Novak - John Novak [106]
   Re: The Illuminati - Olsen - Neil Olsen [9]
   Re: BLURFOs - Taylor - Barry Taylor [44]
   Re: BLURFOs - Hatch - Larry Hatch [12]
   Re: Explanations For MOC #M08--04688 - Hatch - Larry Hatch [36]
   Re: Friedman & McGaha To Debate - Lehmberg - Alfred Lehmberg [18]
   Re: BLURFOs - Hatch - Larry Hatch [8]
   Solar System's Chilling Mystery - Frank Warren [48]
   Re: The Illuminati - Boone - Greg Boone [16]
   Re: The Illuminati - Hatch - Larry Hatch [18]
   Re: The Illuminati - Hall - Richard Hall [20]
   Re: BLURFOs - Bugliaro - Michele Bugliaro [19]
   Center For Physical Trace Research Update 02-21-04 - Ted Phillips -
   I.A.I. [141]
   Re: BLURFOs - Stanford - Ray Stanford [39]
   Re: BLURFOs - Stanford - Ray Stanford [9]
   UFO Magazine UK [was: BLURFOs] - Stuart Miller [28]
   Suppression Of Exopolitics Book - Max Dean Parsons Snr. [49]
   Keyless Car & Garage Entry Mystery - UFO UpDates - Toronto [26]
   Re: The Beveridge UFO - DeMary - Tom DeMary [18]
   Re: Excalibur Briefing - Stanford - Ray Stanford [11]
   John Ford Update! - Alfred Lehmberg [37]
   Re: BLURFOs - Sandow - Greg Sandow [36]
   Re: The Illuminati - Jones - Sean Jones [12]

  Feb 22:

   Re: BLURFOs - Miller - Stuart Miller [12]
   Re: The Illuminati - Kirkos - Nick Kirkos [9]
   Re: The Beveridge UFO - Bright - Dan Bright [18]
   Re: Another 50th Anniversary Of Note - White - Eleanor White [6]
   Re: Excalibur Briefing - Burns - Chris Burns [11]
   Re: The Illuminati - Boone - Greg Boone [10]
   More On John Ford! - Alfred Lehmberg [30]
   Re: The Illuminati - McCoy - GT McCoy [14]
   Re: BLURFOs - Hatch - Larry Hatch [14]
   Re: The Illuminati - Warren - Frank Warren [9]
   Last Night's 'Strange Days... Indeed' Program - Greg Boone [55]
   Re: UFO Magazine UK - Miller - Stuart Miller [80]
   Re: UFO Magazine UK [was: BLURFOs] - Miller - Stuart Miller [29]
   Re: The Illuminati - Hall - Richard Hall [16]
   Re: Suppression Of Exopolitics Book - Stanford - Ray Stanford [45]
   Re: BLURFOs - Bugliaro - Michele Bugliaro [13]
   Re: The Illuminati - Kimball - Paul Kimball [18]

  Feb 23:

   Re: Suppression Of Exopolitics Book - Fleming - Lan Fleming [19]
   Re: The Beveridge UFO - DeMary - Tom DeMary [36]
   Re: The Illuminati - Warren - Frank Warren [34]
   Bizarre Argentine Encounter - Albert Rosales [27]
   Commotion Over Aguara Guazu Argentina Sighting - Scott Corrales [85]
   Re: Off-Season UFOs - Hebert - Amy Hebert [8]
   Re: The Illuminati - Novak - John Novak [22]
   Argentine Woman Almost Battered To Death By 'Imp' - Scott Corrales
   [104]
   Re: The Illuminati - White - Eleanor White [26]
   MJ-12 Documentary - Canadian Air Date - Paul Kimball [15]
   Re: BLURFOs - Hatch - Larry Hatch [9]
   Re: Magazine UK - Stanford - Ray Stanford [158]
   Re: The Illuminati - Stanford - Ray Stanford [8]
   Re: UFO Magazine UK - Gates - Robert Gates [24]
   Re: Last Night's 'Strange Days... Indeed' Program - John [84]

  Feb 24:

   NASA & Soviet Astronauts And UFOs - Giuliano Marinkovic [121]
   Might Earth Sew Seeds Throughout Space? - Ray Stanford [7]
   More Fallout From Pombero Argentina Attack - Scott Corrales [103]
   Secrecy News -- 02/23/04 - Steven Aftergood [133]
   Re: The Beveridge UFO - Bright - Dan Bright [10]
   Re: BLURFOs - Bugliaro - Michele Bugliaro [10]
   Re: Bizarre Argentine Encounter - Wilson - Katharina Wilson [5]
   When UFOs Arrive - Stephen MILES Lewis [211]
   Whittlesea Case Camera Info - Dan Bright [34]
   Re: UK UFO Magazine - Parr - Chris Parr [33]
   Re: The Illuminati - Gates - Robert Gates [26]
   Re: Space Ghost - Speiser - Jim Speiser [6]
   Re: Magazine UK - Miller - Stuart Miller [32]
   Aliens Exist Say Researchers & Audience Members - Frank Warren [94]
   Embryos For Human Cloning Produced In Korea - Frank Warren [25]
   Re: NASA & Soviet Astronauts And UFOs - Oberg - James Oberg [7]
   Re: Apollo 16 Film - Oberg - James Oberg [11]
   UFOs At Galileo Launch - Whitehead - Robert Whitehead [17]

  Feb 25:

   Re: NASA & Soviet Astronauts And UFOs - Shell - Tim Shell [25]
   UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 9 Number 8 - John Hayes [693]
   Re: When UFOs Arrive - Kimball - Paul Kimball [10]
   Re: Whittlesea Case Camera Info - Velez - John Velez [15]
   Re: NASA & Soviet Astronauts And UFOs - Lehmberg - Alfred Lehmberg [13]
   Re: Space Ghost - Davenport - Peter B. Davenport - NUFORC [22]
   Re: Apollo 16 Film - Fleming - Lan Fleming [17]
   Re: Magazine UK - Stanford - Ray Stanford [15]
   Re: Apollo 16 Film - Stanford - Ray Stanford [12]
   Re: UK UFO Magazine - Stanford - Ray Stanford [34]
   Re: Space Ghost - Speiser - Jim Speiser [3]
   V-Shaped Objects? - Amy Hebert [4]
   'Multiverse' Theories - Terry W. Colvin [25]
   Whittlesea-Beveridge Photo - Brad Sparks [34]
   Re: NASA & Soviet Astronauts And UFOs - Marinkovic - Giuliano
   Marinkovic [15]
   Feb. 22 Corinth S.C. Mystery - Kenny Young [36]
   Argentine Pombero 'Attack Victim' In Mental Ward - Scott Corrales [53]

  Feb 26:

   Filer's Files #09-2004 - George A. Filer [566]
   Re: 'Multiverse' Theories - Shell - Tim Shell [17]
   Re: Whittlesea-Beveridge Photo - Shell - Tim Shell [8]
   Re: Whittlesea-Beveridge Photo - Bright - Dan Bright [13]
   Secrecy News -- 02/25/04 - Steven Aftergood [177]
   Re: V-Shaped Objects? - McCoy - GT McCoy [12]
   Re: Apollo 16 Film - Oberg - James Oberg [170]
   02-04 Update From Rich Dolan - Richard Dolan [124]
   Re: Whittlesea-Beveridge Photo - Golubic - Victor Golubic [31]

  Feb 27:

   Re: V-Shaped Objects? - Hatch - Larry Hatch [6]
   Astronaut: We've Had Visitors - Max Dean Parsons, Sr. [20]
   'The Phoenix Lights' By Dr. Lynne Kitei - Geoffrey Richardson [31]
   UFOs & Fairies? - Thiago Luiz Ticchetti [8]
   Witnesses Report Seeing Fireball In Sky - Frank Warren [30]
   Re: The Illuminati - White - Eleanor White [13]
   Re: Magazine UK - Harney - John Harney [9]
   Brisbane, Australia Sighting - Brian Vike - HBCC UFO [81]
   The Rosetta Disk By The Long Now Foundation - Terry W. Colvin [40]
   Carbon Found Older Than Solar System - Frank Warren [79]
   Re: NASA & Soviet Astronauts And UFOs - LeClair - Aaron LeClair [8]
   Re: Magazine UK - Miller - Stuart Miller [13]
   Re: Tracing The Flow Of The Gulf Breeze Money - - Jerry Black [23]
   Re: Subject: Re: Whittlesea-Beveridge Photo - - Tom DeMary [22]
   'Flying Saucer' In The Hills - Frank Warren [26]
   Secrecy News -- 02/27/04 - Steven Aftergood [142]
   Re: The Rosetta Disk By The Long Now Foundation - - Tim Shell [24]
   Re: UFO Magazine UK - Stanford - Ray Stanford [42]

  Feb 28:

   Re: UFO Magazine UK - Stanford - Ray Stanford [19]
   Re: UFO Magazine UK - Hebert - Amy Hebert [15]
   Close Call Meteorite 2004 AS1 - Jaime Maussan [71]
   Re: The Rosetta Disk By The Long Now Foundation - - Ray Stanford [17]
   Re: Whittlesea-Beveridge Photo - Golubic - Victor Golubic [68]
   Re: The Rosetta Disk By The Long Now Foundation - - Terry W. Colvin [8]
   Predator And Prey Models - Part I - Terry W. Colvin [209]
   Predator and Prey Models - Part II - Terry W. Colvin [188]
   Predator and Prey Models - Part III - Terry W. Colvin [394]
   Re: Tracing The Flow Of The Gulf Breeze Money - - Bruce Maccabee [19]
   Re: Brisbane, Australia Sighting - Stanford - Ray Stanford [34]
   Re: UFO Magazine UK - Miller - Stuart Miller [35]
   Re: UFO Magazine UK - Hale - Roy Hale [11]
   Tarter Discusses Search For Aliens - Frank Warren [62]
   Re: UFO Magazine UK - Stanford - Ray Stanford [10]
   Re: Close Call Meteorite 2004 AS1 - Dickenson - Ray Dickenson [32]
   UFO Mystry Continues On Indo-Pak Border - UFO UpDates - Toronto [25]
   NASA Makes Public The Documents On UFO - Terry Groff [44]
   Re: UFOs & Fairies? - Pope - Nick Pope [30]
   Re: UFOs & Fairies? - Clark - Jerome Clark [19]
   Re: Whittlesea-Beveridge Photo - Sparks - Brad Sparks [29]
   Re: Re: UFOs & Fairies? - Novak - John Novak [37]
   Re: The Rosetta Disk By The Long Now Foundation - - Stanton Friedman
   [14]

  Feb 29:

   Filer's Files #10-2004 - George A. Filer Majorstar@aol.com [1]
   Re: Whittlesea-Beveridge Photo - Bright - "Dan Bright" [14]
   Re: The Rosetta Disk By The Long Now Foundation - - Terry Groff [14]
   Eddie Clontz: Master Of Tabloid Journalism - Terry W. Colvin [98]
   Did UFO Cause Calgary Power Outage? - Brian Vike - HBCC UFO [58]
   A Secret Encampment In B.C.? - Brian Vike - HBCC UFO [53]
   Budd Hopkins' Article On Witness Intimidation - Greg Boone [9]
   Re: UFOs & Fairies? - Rudiak - David Rudiak [159]
   Re: The Illuminati - Gates - Robert Gates [22]
   Ed Walters? - Aaron LeClair [12]
   Re: The Rosetta Disk By The Long Now Foundation - - Tim Shell [32]
   Re: Tracing The Flow Of The Gulf Breeze Money - - Robert Gates [37]
   Re: Whittlesea-Beveridge Photo - DeMary - Tom DeMary [24]
   Re: UFOs & Fairies? - Aubeck - Chris Aubeck [27]
   Re: Filer's Files #10-2004 - McGonagle - Joe McGonagle [46]
   Re: Budd Hopkins' Article On Witness Intimidation - Richard Hall [9]
   Re: UFOs & Fairies? - Boone - Greg Boone [37]
   Re: UFOs & Fairies? - Benson - Tom Benson [6]
   Re: UFOs & Fairies? - Clark - Jerome Clark [7]
   Re: UFOs & Fairies? - Friedman - Stanton Friedman [17]

   The number enclosed in brackets is the number of lines of new text in





   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   Feb > Feb 1

                          New Site Honors John Keel

From: George Hansen <gphansen2001.nul>
Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 09:16:26 -0800 (PST)
Fwd Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 10:05:47 -0500
Subject: New Site Honors John Keel


There is a new website honoring John Keel. It can be found at:

http://johnkeel.topcities.com/index.html


George P. Hansen


=====

The Trickster and the Paranormal

http://www.tricksterbook.com









   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   Feb > Feb 1

                    Reward Offered For Bennewitz Picture

From: Grant Cameron <presidentialufo.nul>
Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 12:18:37 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 10:08:52 -0500
Subject: Reward Offered For Bennewitz Picture


Researcher and writer Greg Bishop is offering $100.00 American
for anyone who can find and give me permission to use a picture
of Paul Bennewitz for the upcoming book Project Beta: How U.S.
Intelligence Created An Alien Invasion.

Mr. Bennewitz was a physicist living in Albuquerque, New Mexico
who believed he had discovered a plan for alien domination of
the earth. He produced a report, the Beta Report. Most modern
stories of underground alien bases can find their origin with
Mr. Bennewitz's writings and statements.

In an effort to deal with Mr. Bennewitz's claims, the Air Force
Office of Special Investigations at Kirkland Air Force Base set
up a counter-intelligence operation to misinform Bennewitz. It
was so effective Mr. Bennewitz ended up committed to a mental
hospital for exhaustion in 1988.

Mr. Bishop can be reached at:

spacebrother.nul







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   Feb > Feb 1

               Re: Russia Surpasses Americans In Space Race -

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 12:27:11 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 10:11:37 -0500
Subject: Re: Russia Surpasses Americans In Space Race -


>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 09:39:06 -0800
>Subject: Russia Surpasses Americans In Space Race

>Source: Pravda

>http://english.pravda.ru/mailbox/22/98/387/11928_space.html

>01/30/2004

>Russia Continues to Surpass Americans in the Space Race

>On July 25, 1969, many Americans watched their televisions in
>awe as astronaut Neil Armstrong walked on the moon and said,
>"One small step for man, one giant leap for mankind." Americans
>were amazed at what advances in technology had produced: a man
>on the moon. Ticker tape parades greeted returning astronauts.
>America had proven itself a leader in the space race.

>Lately, some have begun to suggest that this was not the case at
>all; some people have suggested that America never made it to
>the moon and that it was just an illusion made with trick
>photography. Bart Sibrel is one of those people. He made a video
>called, "A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Moon," in
>which he provides much documentation to suggest that man has yet
>to walk on the moon. Is this possible? Could have America faked
>the entire moon landing?

<snip>

In my opinion we should wisely refrain from repeating, on this
List, the mindless lie that U.S. astronauts never walked on the
moon. Even though it is duly credited to Pravda (whose record of
bullshit and fake UFO reports possibly exceeds the worse of the
tabloids over the last several years), if uninitiated public or
media persons come across this list and find that kind of
delusion being repeated here, the image of the UFO interested as
mindless fantasy mongers could well be magnified.

If I take this personally, so be it. My wife (although we were
not married during the Apollo Program) was involved peripherally
in it with NASA and she has awards from NASA of appreciation for
her part in it, to prove it. Although only a minor participant
among many, she knew personally some of the fine people of great
integrity involved, including some of the Apollo astronauts, and
she knows full-well that it is Bart Sibrel who is deceiving
people world-wide (and not the U.S. space program) about Apollo
and selling the wide-eyed a completely phony 'bill of goods'.
Personally, I don't even think Sibrel believes the bullshit he
is propagating but only sees in it the potential for money and
the attention of the media. Shame of Pravda for repeating it.

A major player in Ufology, the late Dr. J. Allen Hynek, became
involved in the Apollo Program when the Los Corrilitos
Observatory (in New Mexico) of which he was the director, was
called into duty to try and get high-resolution photos of the
explosion damage to Apollo 13. Allen sat in my living room and
described the observatory's participation at that time with the
intensity of one who had been emotionally involved in a life-or-
 death salvage operation. He was not lying to my wife and me,
and he had not been fooled. They had photographed the damaged
spacecraft between earth and the moon.

Quite aside from the films of our astronauts walking (sometimes
even hopping or skipping) on the moon under its low-gravity
condition and the testimony of thousands who participated in the
Apollo Program (Bart Sibrel would have us believe they are all
liars or deceived and that not one of them has dared reveal it
was a hoax!), there are the rocks brought back from the moon.
Are we to suppose that geologists with major institutions of
education and research all over the world were hoaxed? Of course
not! The geological samples brought to earth by the Apollo
astronauts were universally found to be distinct from anything
that could have derived from earth. If any of you don't believe
me, you are invited to read up on it for your own sake. There
are plenty of good books on those wonderful Apollo rocks.
Subsequently, lunar meteorites with the tell-tale fusion crust
from atmospheric ablation (in some cases - with exception of the
fusion crust - virtually indistinguishable in hand samples and
petrographically from the Apollo samples) knocked off Luna (the
name of our moon) by cosmic impacts, have been recovered from
widely located places on earth and recognized for their direct
mineralogical and isotopic association with Apollo rocks. Those
lunar meteorites bear witness to how old they are, how long it
was since they were knocked off the moon before their orbits
intersected the earth, and even how long they had been down on
the desert of, for example, Oman, or, also, from the Antarctic
continent.

Now, back to the Pravda article. Anyone to thinks the U.S. space
program is behind that of Russia hasn't been watching the news.
Hey! Wake up! We have two rovers successfully landed on the
surface of Mars right now. How many does Russia have despite
their long-term interest in Mars? :) We and the European Space
Agency also have craft in orbit around the red planet, providing
us with images and information about that world which Russia
cannot provide.

Sure, the space shuttle is grounded for now, but better times
are on their way, as are better launch vehicles.

Several days per week when circumstances dictate that I brave
the food at the NASA Goddard Space Flight Center cafeteria for a
convenient lunch, I look admiringly around me at the faces of a
'unique breed' or dedicated people. The facial-feature-sensitive
will notice that many of the faces show the traits of dedicated
idealists, whose dreams from childhood were being a part of the
space program, and quite a few of those dedicated idealists were
in the space program during the Apollo Program, my wife being
one of them. Surely, many of them could be making better money
with private industry, or even much better money with the very
nearby NSA, the CIA, or the DMA, or similar intelligence
agencies. But, there they are, preferring to live a less-grand
life-style just to be a part of humanity's daring adventures to
further penetrate (whether by manned or unmanned vehicles)
unexplored realms beyond the blue skies of our terrestrial
homeland. And, quite frankly, it really irks me that anyone like
Bart Sibrel would fuel conspiracy buff paranoia in accusing such
good, dedicated people of being involved in an incredible and
really ridiculous-to-allege moon-landing hoax.

Sorry for getting on my 'soap box, but that Sibrel-Pravda crap
falls out of the figurative sky pretty near-to-home for my wife
and me. Furthermore, the ground here in Maryland is too frozen
and ice covered for me to be out doing more exciting things like
tracking Early Cretaceous (about 110 million-years-old)
dinosaurs, crocodilians, pterosaurs, and even mammals. Oh well,
there is hope. Spring is reportedly coming. :)


Ray Stanford

"You know my method. It is founded upon the observance of
trifles." - Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery








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              Re: Has A UFO Ever Killed A Diesel Engine? - Hall

From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 19:59:29 +0000
Fwd Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 10:14:39 -0500
Subject: Re: Has A UFO Ever Killed A Diesel Engine? - Hall


>From: Eleanor White <eleanor.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 08:16:33 -0500
>Subject: Has A UFO Ever Killed A Diesel Engine?

>Have UFOs ever been reported to kill a diesel engine?

>Eleanor White

Eleanor,

The short answer is "yes" (on occasion), but usually no. It
depends, according to engineers I have talked with about this,
on the particular ignition system of the diesel engine. The
ignitions differ. In fact, in all EM effect cases on vehicles,
investigators should be careful to document the type of ignition
in that particular vehicle.


 - Dick










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                       Re: Witness Frustration - Hall

From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 20:12:07 +0000
Fwd Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 10:16:56 -0500
Subject: Re: Witness Frustration - Hall


>From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 11:04:33 EST
>Subject: Witness Frustration

>Don't you hate it when you've got a UFO witness and they won't
>talk?

>What I mean is they won't tell the authorities or the public
>what they've told you in private. You know their story is true
>as it is the lynchpin to this debacle but for some reason known
>only to the muses they won't talk.

>Sometimes it's not one, it's two or more witnesses.

>What's perplexing is these same people would fight you to the
>death if you told them they were lying, if you disrespected
>their favorite Aunt Bea's cornbread recipe, and Heavan help you
>if you tell them that catfish wasn't big enough to swallow a
>preacher's cat.

>Now you're left to finding out what they're afraid of.
>Government? Embarrassment?

>These same people have various awards for bravery both military
>and civilian. They'll even dress up in a silly costume during
>any harvest parade. So it ain't embarrassment nor government nor
>anything logical a fellow with a good night's sleep can figure
>out.

>Just another day in Ufology.


Greg,

It's people like that who make it very hard on less
"credentialed" witesses and ultimately prevent the truth from
coming out. They must speak out.

One of my examples is two science professors at a midwestern
university who had a sighting that blew their scientific minds,
and they knew what they were looking at was not of this earth.

They started to report it, but chickened out.

Jim McDonald interviewed them and got the story in confidence.

Now, I have never violated a UFO-related confidence in 50 years,
but I have been strongly tempted in this case. I can't help but
consider them to be moral cowards. Other people suffer because
of their inaction. They probably are retired by now (if still
alive), and I know their names.

Maybe I will out them in my memoirs (if anyone ever wants to
publish my memoirs).


 - Dick









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                     Re: Witness Frustration - Friedman

From: Stan Friedman <fsphys.nul>
Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 16:27:03 -0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 10:19:20 -0500
Subject: Re: Witness Frustration - Friedman


>From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 11:04:33 EST
>Subject: Witness Frustration

>Don't you hate it when you've got a UFO witness and they won't
>talk?

>What I mean is they won't tell the authorities or the public
>what they've told you in private. You know their story is true
>as it is the lynchpin to this debacle but for some reason known
>only to the muses they won't talk.

<snip>


Loads of people admit to having had sightings in a safe
circumstance such as at the end of my lecture "Flying Saucers
ARE Real". But 90% hadn't reported what they had seen.

The most common reason is "they would think I was some kind of a
nut".. also "I tried to report it to the police, or the airport,
or the radio station and they asked what I had been drinking".

Fear of ridicule is a powerful emotion.

I asked one class of about 100 students to answer (raising their
hands) with their eyes closed so they wouldn't be influenced by
their classmates. 80% thought most people didn't believe any
UFOs were alien spacecraft. But 80% of that class thought some
were.

Our actions (reporting) are strongly influenced by our
perception of how others will respond.


Stan Friedman








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              Re: Roswell UFO & TV's 'Space Patrol' - Friedman

From: Stan Friedman <fsphys.nul>
Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 16:43:09 -0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 10:21:23 -0500
Subject: Re: Roswell UFO & TV's 'Space Patrol' - Friedman


>From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 11:16:13 EST
>Subject: Roswell UFO & TV's 'Space Patrol'

>For Giggles And Ships...Roswell UFO & TV's "Space Patrol"

>Several years ago I and my pals of at an aircraft club marvelled
>at the craftsmanship of several companies that put out model
>toys.

>Some fly, some are for display, but all are good fun to put
>together for one's own enjoyment or as a group or family
>project. Any model maker on this list will agree.

>I of course had to point out the cool 'Roswell' model from
>Testor's. If I recall it was a combination of descriptions
>forensically extracted and authorized by someone or some
>committee with real Roswell witnesses who's testimony lead to
>it's authenticity.

<snip>

Unfortunately the testor model was based on the phony testimony
of the late Frank Kaufman, as interpreted by artist Bill
MacDonald. Frank, an artist in his own right, seems to have
copied it from illustrations of the TR 3 in Popular Mechanics
about 1990... two years earlier.

Too bad.


Stan Friedman







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               Re: Russia Surpasses Americans In Space Race -

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 16:44:42 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 10:23:27 -0500
Subject: Re: Russia Surpasses Americans In Space Race -


>From: Eleanor White <eleanor.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 09:09:02 -0500
>Subject: Re: Russia Surpasses Americans In Space Race

>>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 09:39:06 -0800
>>Subject: Russia Surpasses Americans In Space Race

><snip>

>>But if you look at the facts, you really have to wonder: Has man
>>made it to the moon yet?

>What I remember from moon video footage are these things:

>1. The movements of the space-suited astronauts suggested to me
>that they were in a lower gravity environment than on Earth.

>2. The dry soil spinning off the wheels of the rover vehicles
>did not diffuse into dust clouds, as would have been the case on
>Earth. Instead the particles fell swiftly back to the surface.

>3. The U.S. flag, suspened from an L-shaped mast, appeared to me
>to mechanically oscillate, rather than flap in a continuous
>breeze.

>4. The moon surface camera shots of the lift off to rejoin the
>lunar orbiters show exhaust characteristics which clearly looked
>like the rocket motor was exhausting into a vacuum. The rocket
>motor size did not appear large enough to lift the vehicle so
>quickly in Earth's gravity.

>I'd bet the moon missions were genuine, in spite of the
>anomalies in the images being used to support the faked mission
>hypothesis.


Eleanor,

Excellent observations, all; and you are quite correct in your
deductions from them.

Thanks for that input for those who hadn't noticed or who might
not have thought as deeply about what they saw.

Ray Stanford

"You know my method. It is founded upon the observance of
trifles." -- Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery







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               Re: Russia Surpasses Americans In Space Race -

From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul>
Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 18:03:30 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
Fwd Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 10:25:07 -0500
Subject: Re: Russia Surpasses Americans In Space Race -


>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 09:39:06 -0800
>Subject: Russia Surpasses Americans In Space Race

>Source: Pravda

>http://english.pravda.ru/mailbox/22/98/387/11928_space.html

>01/30/2004

Hi Everyone!

The author of this long review piece on the history of the early
days of the spaceflight, including his list of "Russian" firsts,
has tainted it with some very dubious and unsubstantiated facts
that give away his true motive for writing this article - he is
a sore loser!

Many of these so-called "Russian" firsts were really Soviet
firsts, thanks partly to the help they (and the U.S.) got from
captured German rocket scientists and engineers after World War
II and the skills, resources and facilities provided by other
the Soviet Socialist Republics and help from eastern European
"satellite" countries of the U.S.S.R. too.

Although the first American to ride a rocket into space was just
months after the first successful Soviet attempt and it took
nearly half a century before a third country duplicated this
feat (China), if the Chinese do become the next people to walk
on the Moon or the first to send astronauts to Mars, I would not
be surprised to read similar bitter accounts by Russians and
Americans that they must of faked it too!

>In 1968, Russia's unmanned rocket Zond-5 became the first to
>travel around the moon and return back to earth unscathed.

I am surprised that this author overlooked another important
"Russian" first regarding Zond 5. It was the first spacecraft to
travel to the Moon and back to carry a biological crew - and
this just three months before the flight of Apollo 8, the first
manned mission to the Moon. No, the passengers on Zond 5 were
not dogs this time, they were turtles and other smaller
creatures.

>Russians had wanted to go to the moon. However, there were many
>concerns with safety. The Van Allen Belts released a deadly
>radiation that could easily fry a person to death.

<snip>

>One cosmonaut who was sent in far outer space reportedly
>experienced the Van Allen Belts harmful effects firsthand.
>According to various sources, while he left white, he came back
>black; he was cooked to a crisp due to the harmful radiation.

Who was this mysterious Earth orbiting cosmonaut that allegedly
ventured into the Van Allen Radiation Belt?

The inner Van Allen belt consists of much more highly energetic
particles than the larger outer belt and begins at an altitude
of only 650 kilometers above the equator. During the flight of
Gemini 11, the crew (Charles Conrad and Dick Gordon - who were
to fly again together on Apollo 12, the second manned lunar
landing mission) flew their space capsule to a then record
altitude of about 1370 kilometers well into the inner radiation
belt with no ill effects and not even a tan! One of the
experiments performed on Gemini 11 dealt with radiation biology,
the findings of which helped to clear any doubts about the risks
of a manned flight to the Moon.

>But if you look at the facts, you really have to wonder: Has man
>made it to the moon yet?

If one only looks at the facts, not just speculation, faulty
reasoning and lies, the answer to his question can only be
"Yes". Some of these doubting Americans of this generation who
were not even born when man first walked on the Moon could very
well become the first lunar colonists.


Nick Balaskas








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               Re: Russia Surpasses Americans In Space Race -

From: Lan Fleming <lfleming5.nul>
Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 19:33:39 -0600
Fwd Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 10:27:10 -0500
Subject: Re: Russia Surpasses Americans In Space Race -


>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
>Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 09:39:06 -0800
>Fwd Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 08:42:25 -0500
>Subject: Russia Surpasses Americans In Space Race

>Source: Pravda

>http://english.pravda.ru/mailbox/22/98/387/11928_space.html

<snip>

>Indeed, there is definitely something wrong here. If you take a
>moment to view video footage of the moon landing by U.S.
>astronauts from back in the 1960s, you'll notice that the dust
>kicked up by astronauts immediately settles down, just as if it
>was sand on the beach. Yet we all know that not only does the
>moon have less gravity, but it also has zero-atmosphere.
>Therefore, the moon dust should travel further given the force
>and little to counteract it. Yet, for some strange, unexplained
>reason, the moon dust resettles back to the ground at the same
>gravitational rate of 32 ft./sec. as the earth.

I don't know of anyone actually measuring the rate at which dust
settled in the Apollo videos. But since there's no atmosphere on
the moon, it makes sense that dust would settle faster there
than on Earth even though the gravity is 1/6 Earth. In one
video, one of the Apollo astronauts even demonstrated the truth
of Galileo's claim that a feather and a rock would fall at the
same rate in a vacuum.

>In a letter I received back from the astronaut Armstrong, which
>asked him about this strange fact of the same gravitational pull
>on both the moon and earth, the response I was sent surprisingly
>admitted that, yes, the gravitational pull should be different.

Well, yes. I guess Armstrong would "admit" that, since it's true
that the gravitational force on the moon is less than on Earth.
He doesn't seem to have admitted that the Apollo videos show any
evidence that gravity in the Apollo videos of the Moon was the
same as on Earth. The author of this article apparently is
trying to confuse people into thinking that Armstrong "admitted"
the videos showed the gravity was the same as on Earth when
Armstrong actually was answering an altogether different
question.

Gee, what a silly article. I suppose there may be some Russians
who like it, though, since it caters to their national pride.
But they whupped us so bad in the space race up until Apollo
that I don't see why they would feel terribly ashamed that
Russia didn't land people on the Moon first. You can't win 'em
all.








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               Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Velez

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 22:57:32 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 11:38:47 -0500
Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Velez


>From: Dan Bright <ufo.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 16:13:35 -0000
>Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph

>>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 15:56:12 -0500
>>Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph

>>>He concluded that it appears to show characteristics that may be
>>>consistent with image manipulation.

>>There is absolutely no evidence _anywhere_ in the photo of
>>'manipulation' of any kind.

Howdy Dan,

You inquired:

>What do you make of the missing 'fringe'?

There is so much 'noise' surrounding the 'flying saucer' that
any 'fringe' would be lost in it. One poster has proposed that
the pixel noise that surrounds the object _is_ the 'fringe'!

BTW, I don't like to dignify your friend's 'opinion' by using
the term 'analysis'. I'm convinced your friend spent all of
three- and-a-half minutes conducting his so called, 'analysis'.
In your friend's own words: "If you zoom in on the 'UFO' you can
see that there's a lot of pixel noise around it, but the fringe
is missing."

Duh, if there is a 'fringe' surrounding the object how is one
to see it, separate it, tell it apart from, all the noise? Once
the visual noise reaches a certain level it begins to 'mask'
(wash-out) detail. Sometimes you can't have it both ways.
It's either 'clean' enough to allow observation of subtle detail,
or there is enough visual noise to wash-out those same details
completely.

>Regarding your Bryce 3D comparison, I particularly liked that -
>I was going to try it myself but you beat me to it.

The race is to the swiftest my friend! <g>

I wanted to produce a 3D object that was 'visually' based on my
own perception of the object in the Whittlesea photo. Bryce is
perfect for the job. I have other, deeper 3D creation software
on my hard drive, but none whose basic palette is so amply
suited and whose interface is so simple and intuitive for the
task as Bryce.

To briefly recap the procedure:

First, I created a lens shaped object and turned it on its side
so as to be seen 'edge-on.' I then created a 'sphere', sized it
and attached it to the lenticular/lens shaped object. After
combining the two elements into a single object, I added a
'texture' to the surface of it. I chose 'brushed aluminum' from
the Bryce menu because that is what my eye sees on the object in
the Whittlesea photo.

Next, the object was carefully positioned (in relation to the
horizon of the 3D space) at the same viewing angle we see the
Whittlesea object in. After that I selected a 'sky dome' that
matched Whittlesea as closely as I could manage for both color
and brightness. Created lighting that comes from the 'right' of
the 3D space, just as in the Whittlesea photo, was the last
operation performed.

As you can see (refer to graphics at URL provided) the end
result is almost a dead match-up (sans the motion blurring) for
the object in the Whittlesea photo.

http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/ufoupdates/listers/WhatIsee/

>Naturally, I fully accept that a thorough investigation
>of the witness and sighting (including more rigorous image
>analyses than the preliminary findings reported here) would be
>needed to draw any definitive conclusions vis-a-vis the case per
>se.

They'll be debating this one long after you and I have departed
from this mortal coil, amigo!<lol> They're still debating the
Trent photo for Pete's sake, this one is pristine, new.

*Hey Errol, Woodsey, maybe it's a photo of one of those
'aerodynamic bananas' we talked about on SDI some time back.
<Hee-Haw>

Regards,

John Velez








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              Re: Extraterrestrial Edge Helps The Balance Sheet

From: Diana Cammack <cammack.nul>
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 09:27:01 +0200
Fwd Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 11:42:29 -0500
Subject: Re: Extraterrestrial Edge Helps The Balance Sheet


>From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>To: <- UFO - UpDates Subscribers ->
>Date: Thursday, January 22, 2004 1:57 PM
>Subject: UFO UpDate: Extraterrestrial Edge Helps The Balance Sheet

>Source: The Houston Chronicle - Texas

>http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/business/2365195

>Jan. 21, 2004

>Extraterrestrial edge helps the balance sheet
>By A. Craig Copetas
>Bloomberg News

>A galactic mystery hovers over the World Economic Forum meeting
>in Davos, Switzerland: How many of the 2,280 global leaders,
>including 31 heads of state, gathered in this Alpine resort
>conduct business with extraterrestrials?

>This is no whimsy for Davosians.

>It's on the agenda of the annual powwow of the influential and
>affluent who will ask forum participants such as Vice President
>Dick Cheney, Coca-Cola Chairman Douglas Daft and De La Rue Chief
>Executive Ian Much if the aliens have landed and are
>collaborating with them to concoct government policy, brew soda
>pop and mint Iraq's new bank notes.

>"The extraterrestrials have yet to make contact with me," said
>Much, who will help moderate tonight's dinner seminar (closed
>except to forum participants) on The Conspiracy Behind
>Conspiracy Theories: Have Extraterrestrials Made Contact With
>Government Leaders?

>The British moneymaker is confident - at least for now - that De
>La Rue remains the largest nongovernment printer of bank notes
>in the Milky Way.

>"If the aliens are here," Much reckoned, "I'd absolutely expect
>them to call me to have their currency printed."

>Despite the twilight zone topic arching many an eyebrow along
>the snow-covered strip of fashionable hotel bars, forum
>officials maintain their five-day program on Partnering for
>Security and Prosperity requires an unambiguous examination of
>extraterrestrial presence on Earth.

>"The panelists are the best in their domain; they all have
>expertise in specific fields," explained Philippe Bourguignon,
>the forum's co-chief executive officer and a former CEO of Club
>Mediterranee. "The themes and sessions at Davos reflect the
>global agenda."


<snip>

Did this seminar or talk ever happen (or was it a joke report)?
And has there been any report of its content or the reaction of
the audience? Do we even know who attended? or spoke?


Diana








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                   Re: Linda Cortile Re-Surfaces - Cammack

From: Diana Cammack <cammack.nul>
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 09:53:47 +0200
Fwd Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 11:44:00 -0500
Subject: Re: Linda Cortile Re-Surfaces - Cammack


>From: Luis R. Gonzalez <lrgm.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 19:43:41 +0100
>Subject: Linda Cortile Re-Surfaces

>Linda Cortile has just published a personal account of her
>abduction in French (Mon Cas: 30 Novembre 1989 - La Gazette
>Forteenne #2, 2003). It reads like a novel. Linda surely has
>improved her story-telling skills!

>There are some new revelations on it. Unfortunately my French is
>not what it should be, so I only comment on the most
>surprising, to me, aspects.
>snip>

>I certainly would like to learn more details about all this.


I agree. This seems an important addition to the story. Can
anyone post the site or better yet, translate for us French
illiterates!?


Diana








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               Re: Russia Surpasses Americans In Space Race -

From: Josh Goldstein <lovolution.nul>
Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 02:36:55 -0800
Fwd Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 11:46:24 -0500
Subject: Re: Russia Surpasses Americans In Space Race -


>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 09:39:06 -0800
>Subject: Russia Surpasses Americans In Space Race

>Source: Pravda

>http://english.pravda.ru/mailbox/22/98/387/11928_space.html

>01/30/2004

>Russia Continues to Surpass Americans in the Space Race

>On July 25, 1969, many Americans watched their televisions in
>awe as astronaut Neil Armstrong walked on the moon and said,
>"One small step for man, one giant leap for mankind." Americans
>were amazed at what advances in technology had produced: a man
>on the moon. Ticker tape parades greeted returning astronauts.
>America had proven itself a leader in the space race.

>Lately, some have begun to suggest that this was not the case at
>all; some people have suggested that America never made it to
>the moon and that it was just an illusion made with trick
>photography. Bart Sibrel is one of those people. He made a video
>called, "A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Moon," in
>which he provides much documentation to suggest that man has yet
>to walk on the moon. Is this possible? Could have America faked
>the entire moon landing?

<snip>

Pravda, Truth, Stuck in the Toilet

Pravda started itself out as the toilet paper of the USSR toilet
bowl and proceeded to flush upon the world preposterous Soviet
lies. I am not surprised that now that the Communists are gone
that Pravda is still in the toilet bowl. To me they seem like
cheap prostitutes, now working for different pimps but they are
still a slimy press organ. They are still spreading BS, wrapped
in lies, and placed within an ego trip, only fit to be laughed
at. Pravda does not mean truth, in any language.

Unfortunately I suppose they draw readers with no sense of
critical analysis who actually believe this deceptive story:

<snip>

>But if you look at the facts, you really have to wonder: Has man
>made it to the moon yet?


I'm still laughing,

Josh








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             Re: Review Of 'Sight Unseen' By Hopkins & Rainey -

From: Luis R. Gonzalez <lrgm.nul>
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 12:22:18 +0100
Fwd Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 11:58:39 -0500
Subject: Re: Review Of 'Sight Unseen' By Hopkins & Rainey -


The recent spate of laudatory comments about Sight Unseen has
prompted me to put it at the top of my reading list. I got it
last Christmas, read the dust covers, leafed through it, and put
it back behind some other titles like Howe's Glimpses... (I
finally decided to get them after the recent debate about that
alleged Brazilian abduction's photos). But I disgress.....

Those who have read my posts here would suspect (rightly) that
my opinion about Sight Unseen is not as positive. Nevertheless,
I will give you a detailed review when I finish it... if you are
interested in my humble opinion, of course.

But, taking advantage of Katharina Wilson's presence, I would
like to learn more about her "airport incident".

As presented in the book, Budd's "Strange Case of the Relictant
Faucets" goes like this (please, correct me if I get something
wrong):

On October 5, 1995 Katharina flew to Chicago where she had been
invited to speak at a local UFO conference. She began feeling
strange aboard the plane, "agitated and confused". They arrived
at O'Hare at 2:10 Portland time (or so she remember). She left
the plane and walked straight up to the women's rest room near
the gate. After coming out of one of the stalls, she put soap on
her hands and tried to wash them, but the automatic water faucet
wouldn't work. She began trying other sinks with the same
results. There were other women around and for them the water
came on fine.

Several times, she tried using the same sinks the women had
used, to no avail. She began to panic and thinking to herself,
"I'm not registering on the sensors". She stood in the middle of
the rest room and asked a young woman, "Am I invisible or
something?". She looked in her direction but didn't respond,
walked right past and left the room. Instead of insisting or
trying another person, Katharina saw a baby-changing station and
was finally able to wash her hands.

She left the rest room and seeing some pay phones decided to
call her husband. Curiosly, even if as she herself explains,
Katharina usually called him after getting to her hotel room
(one would suspect at least one hour after arrival), the first
thing he said was, "I see your plane was late getting to
Chicago". Katharina looked at her watch and it read about 3:20
Portland time. Around 1 hour missing!

After a few minutes conversation, she said good-bye and decide
to walk to the baggage claim area, but she doesn't remember much
of anything about getting there until she was about ten yards
from her hostesses Mary and Judy. She saw her big red suitcase
still on the carousel, but nobody standing around it.

The police person had just taken them off the carousel, so she
walked up to the security officer and said "Those are mine" and
then walked behind her hostesses who seemed to be staring out of
the window. They were totally surprised, they had been waiting a
long time. She looked at her watch again and read the time as
3:20. Teleported from the pay phones to the baggage carousel!

Apparently, Katharina has not remembered anything that could
have happened during that one missing hour.

There are two questions to consider about all this:

- The consistency and real strangeness of the alleged facts

- Hopkins' interpretation and Rainey's attempt to scientific
explanation.

For now, I will tackle the second.

Hopkins writes that only 4 or 5 minutes had passed between the
two readings. I beg to disagree.

As an infrequent user of airports (at least in Europe) it takes
you at least 15 minutes to get from the landed plane to the
luggage claim area, even running - without discounting the
queues to get off the plane, etc. Unfortunately, the authors
does not provide even with a simple layout of the O'Hare United
Airlines terminal.

He also mentions that Mary and Judy had waited for an hour or
so, had watched everyone else picking their luggage and had even
checked with United Airlines that she had disembarked along with
the other passengers.

So, his conclusion is that "at some moment just after her trip
to the restroom she must have been rendered "unseeable", then
they took her from the building, and the abduction itself must
have ended before she made her phone call. But, it seem that her
state of invisibility was still in effect, along with alien
control, until she was quickly transported to a nearly vacant
part of the baggage claim area, behind Mary and Judy. where she
suddenly became fully visible again".

I sincerely find it difficult to believe that in such a busy
airport nobody bumped against an invisible Katharina while she
was in the restroom or at the pay phones, so I would suggest a
simpler scenario:

She was abducted from her stall in the women's rest room, and
returned there one hour later. Murphy's Law suggested that the
aliens somehow forgot to disconnect their invisibility cloak and
Katharina suffered her washing ordeal. She became visible at the
baby-changing station and phoned home. Then, "they" discover
their time-machine also did not work properly and teleported her
to the luggage claim area.

How does Carol Rainey try to explain Katharina, extrpolating
from human known technology?

She began, properly, trying to eliminate the mundane.
Unfortunately, she was unable to identify which kind of
automatic faucets were in use at the airport (some detect
movement, some detect heat). If Katharina were invisible, a
movement detector would clearly fail, so you cannot write
several pages around the mystery. So Carol opted for heat
sensors and got herself into a big problem. She decided that
Katharina had become a blackbody, changed temporarily into a
being with a radiation frequency similar to a blackbody's -
almost completely absorbing light and then re-emitting it.
Perfect.

Not so. Carol shows she did not check with any physics expert.
If a body completely absorbs light it does _not_ became
invisible, it became black. Everybody would had seen a black
silohuette.

But, wait a moment, blackbodies give off their energy at _all_
wavelengths. That is why the automatic infrared sensors got
confused and did not work properly. Sorry, wrong again.

Infrared sensors are stupid. They only worry about getting (or
not) infrared waves, so if Katharina was giving off at _all_
wavelengths, she also gave off at infrared, so the faucets
should have work properly. Besides, she was also giving off at
the visual spectrum, so she would be anything except invisible.

The important point here is not if aliens really exist and use
(or not) a recognizable technology. The real point is that Carol
did not do her homework properly and _her_ extrapolations have
no logic. After a succinct glance, the same can be said about her
other proposals in the book. This is why I do not consider this
book valuable in advancing a scientific Ufology.


Yours,

Luis R. Gonzlez Manso








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                  The Anomalist Book Awards 2003 Announced

From: Loren Coleman <lcoleman.nul>
Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 08:26:11 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 12:01:16 -0500
Subject: The Anomalist Book Awards 2003 Announced


The Anomalist Book Awards & Book List 2003 are out.

http://www.anomalist.com/books/awards03.html

Award Winners 2003 have been announced in the following
categories:

Best Biography (UFOs)
Best Work in Cryptozoology
Best Book on History
Best Science Book
Best Ghost Study

Also, there is a good selection of other new works via the Book
List 2003 in the following arenas:

Anomalies, Forteana, and General Mysteries
Critics & Debunkers
Cryptozoology
Forbidden Archaeology and Ancient Civilizations
Maverick Anthropology
Strange Talents
Otherwise Unorthodox
The Other Side
UFOs, Aliens and Abductions

The Anomalist Book Awards & Book List 2003 are bestowed annually
by writer and editor Patrick Huyghe.








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               Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Heber

From: Amy Hebert <vanguard.nul>
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 07:46:47 -0600
Fwd Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 12:23:36 -0500
Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Heber


>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 15:56:12 -0500
>Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph

>>From: Dan Bright <ufo.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 19:12:14 -0000
>>Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Bright

>>I've posted two non-bicubic (genuine fractals algorithm)
>>enlargements on my site for the benefit of those who don't have
>>access to such image re-sampling software:

>>Image and enlargements: http://tinyurl.com/2espv

<snip>

>Twaddle! I have taken the time to post an example taken from the
>photo which refutes the claim of Mr. Anonymous that lighting and
>shadows are inconsistent between the crossing sign and the
>object in the sky.

>"Expert" my eye!
>See:

>http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/ufoupdates/listers/WhatIsee/

>...and scroll to the last image on the page. Make up your own
>mind. So much for "anonymous experts" eh?

Hi John:

Although I see no evidence the photograph in question has been
faked, I did find various inconsistencies in your example.

In reproducing your 3D model of the Whittlesea UFO using my own
Bryce 5 (I use Bryce 5, Poser, Adobe, Paint Shop Pro 8 and
numerous other programs to create 3D graphics for my research
and the book I am writing), I discovered, quite by accident,
that the sun could not have been in the position you claim it
was in.

After creating a reproduction of your reproduction to see what I
might learn, I could not re-create the reflection of the sun off
the "dome" of the "domed disc" without placing the sun lower on
the horizon and in front of the "disc". In so doing, I noticed
something was wrong with the shadows. Placing the sun in a
position to create the same reflection on my 3D model "disc" as
the reflection on your 3D model "disc" created long shadows
totally inconsistent with the shadows in the original Whittlesea
UFO photograph.

Go to:

http://a-realitycheck.com/whittleseaufo/comparison.htm

(My new web site, "Reality Check" is not open yet but I wanted
to use some of the space I have there.)

Furthermore, the "shadows" the arrow points to in the last image
on your page are not consistent with the shadows from other
objects in the photograph. In fact, what the arrow seems to be
pointing to is not a shadow at all but merely a darker
coloration of the gravel behind the sign (notice the lighter
colorations on top of the dark - shadows don't do this).

You claim the light is coming from above, to the right and
slightly in *front* of all the objects in the photo. You also
claim the sun would have been over and slightly *behind* the
photographer's right shoulder. If this is true, where is the
photographer's shadow?

It seems as though you are altering the sun's location in the
sky in order to make your model appear more accurate.

Also in the process of analyzing the object in the photograph, I
developed another example of what the object may be. I had
thought it might be a bird but an accidental nudge of the mouse
caused an over contrast of the image and gave me a whole new
perspective of what might have been photographed.

Go to:

http://a-realitycheck.com/whittleseaufo/analysis.htm

We will probably never know what the Whittlesea UFO really was.


A. Hebert








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                     Michael J. Woods On NASA's Motives

From: Eleanor White <eleanor.nul>
Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 10:05:24 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 12:25:20 -0500
Subject: Michael J. Woods On NASA's Motives


Hi -

Last night's Strange Days... Indeed radio program, #277,
January 31, 2004, had Michael J. Woods as its first guest.

Michael talked about, among other things, the Mars exploration
program, and the allegations that NASA is deliberately obscuring
artifacts found on Mars by the several explorer craft.

Michael stated that NASA could not be covering up artifacts
because nothing would spur generous budget allocations like
finding artificial structures and implements on Mars.  I'd like
to comment that Michael's point would only be true _if_ NASA
management and higher members of the NASA chain of command are,
behind the scenes and above all else, wanting a larger budget.

Both UFO abductees and mind control targets (bad term, but the
most popular unfortunately) have been reporting extremely
advanced technology being used on them for decades. Such
technology obviously gives a great deal of power to the ultra-
wealthy power brokers who run visible governments. If these
hidden power brokers want to keep the existence of advanced
technology, and the existence of other civilizations from the
people of Earth, then that too could be a motive for NASA to
obfuscate and avoid revealing the full findings of their space
exploration projects.

The MKULTRA era mind control programs, the COINTELPRO crimes,
the broadcast revelations that unexploded bombs were planted
inside the Oklahoma City federal building on video tape, the
proving in public court by Virginia lawyer that the Virginia
Supreme Court was altering transcripts, and quite a few other
incidents, show that conspiracies happen. There is no logical
reason to presume NASA is somehow immune from conspiracies, or
that anyone who speaks about conspiratorial activity is crazy.
Anyone who has lived through going to school knows that cliques
and conspiracies are natural and normal.

NASA's actions make it plain to all who reject arbitrary
application of the standard "conspiracy theory" labelling that
some reason other than budget size is motivating their
behaviour.


Eleanor White








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                Re: Roswell UFO & TV's 'Space Patrol' - Boone

From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 10:41:18 EST
Fwd Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 12:44:39 -0500
Subject: Re: Roswell UFO & TV's 'Space Patrol' - Boone


>From: Stan Friedman <fsphys.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 16:43:09 -0400
>Subject: Re: Roswell UFO & TV's 'Space Patrol'

>>From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 11:16:13 EST
>>Subject: Roswell UFO & TV's 'Space Patrol'

>>For Giggles And Ships...Roswell UFO & TV's "Space Patrol"

>>Several years ago I and my pals of at an aircraft club marvelled
>>at the craftsmanship of several companies that put out model
>>toys.

>>Some fly, some are for display, but all are good fun to put
>>together for one's own enjoyment or as a group or family
>>project. Any model maker on this list will agree.

>>I of course had to point out the cool 'Roswell' model from
>>Testor's. If I recall it was a combination of descriptions
>>forensically extracted and authorized by someone or some
>>committee with real Roswell witnesses who's testimony lead to
>>it's authenticity.

><snip>

>Unfortunately the testor model was based on the phony testimony
>of the late Frank Kaufman, as interpreted by artist Bill
>MacDonald. Frank, an artist in his own right, seems to have
>copied it from illustrations of the TR 3 in Popular Mechanics
>about 1990... two years earlier.

>Too bad.

Yes! I'm aware of Frank Kaufman's involvement in the Testor's
model's design.  I didn't know that he was 'The' Frank Kaufman
the artist. Didn't put two and two together til several years
ago.

I know the Testor's model design is in conflict with the
testimony of witnesses you presented in 'Crash At Corona' and
your other papers.

In addition, several years ago one of the wind tunnel tests from
the Langley website showed another craft similar to the Testor's
model. This craft was reported to be the 'Aurora' but it stated
on the site that this wind tunnel test was done in the mid to
late 50's. I've got a pic of it and the test results which I'll
dig up and post.


Best,

Greg








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                       Re: Witness Frustration - Boone

From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 10:52:08 EST
Fwd Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 12:46:31 -0500
Subject: Re: Witness Frustration - Boone


>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 20:12:07 +0000
>Subject: Re: Witness Frustration

>>From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 11:04:33 EST
>>Subject: Witness Frustration

>>Don't you hate it when you've got a UFO witness and they won't
>>talk?

>>What I mean is they won't tell the authorities or the public
>>what they've told you in private. You know their story is true
>>as it is the lynchpin to this debacle but for some reason known
>>only to the muses they won't talk.

>>Sometimes it's not one, it's two or more witnesses.

>>What's perplexing is these same people would fight you to the
>>death if you told them they were lying, if you disrespected
>>their favorite Aunt Bea's cornbread recipe, and Heavan help you
>>if you tell them that catfish wasn't big enough to swallow a
>>preacher's cat.

>>Now you're left to finding out what they're afraid of.
>>Government? Embarrassment?

>>These same people have various awards for bravery both military
>>and civilian. They'll even dress up in a silly costume during
>>any harvest parade. So it ain't embarrassment nor government nor
>>anything logical a fellow with a good night's sleep can figure
>>out.

>It's people like that who make it very hard on less
>"credentialed" witesses and ultimately prevent the truth from
>coming out. They must speak out.

>One of my examples is two science professors at a midwestern
>university who had a sighting that blew their scientific minds,
>and they knew what they were looking at was not of this earth.

>They started to report it, but chickened out.

>Jim McDonald interviewed them and got the story in confidence.

>Now, I have never violated a UFO-related confidence in 50 years,
>but I have been strongly tempted in this case. I can't help but
>consider them to be moral cowards. Other people suffer because
>of their inaction. They probably are retired by now (if still
>alive), and I know their names.

>Maybe I will out them in my memoirs (if anyone ever wants to
>publish my memoirs).


Thank you Dick Hall!

I could pull my whiskers out with frustration at the number of
super credible witnesses I've met who could put this issue to
rest without batting an eye!

(Yes I have regrown my whiskers. One of the girls I worked with
at Parascope once asked why ufologists have the coolest beards )

As I write this, I've finally gotten the phone number to one of
the photogs who worked with me years ago at a newspaper. He
should know all the ins and outs of what happened UFO related
and should have pics and know where the other photogs are at. He
works for a big paper now and is highly regarded in his field.

I recall the fellow as an upbeat, gung-ho type who bucked
the system many a time. If he's not mellowed with age he
should provide some additional data to my accounts.

We'll see.

Conidentiality is a plus and a hinderance. Never can breach
thatt trust unless someone's life was in jeopardy, and then
some.

Since life and limb aren't the issue of UFO sightings and
abductions it's not on the top of the menu of the press or cops.

What is of note is that Dr. Greer's press conference showed the
press is interested but the solid evidence can't be presented
without amnesty from prosecution for violating secrecy oaths.

If it ain't one thing it's another.


Best,

Greg







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                       Re: Witness Frustration - Boone

From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 11:03:15 EST
Fwd Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 12:47:39 -0500
Subject: Re: Witness Frustration - Boone


>From: Stan Friedman <fsphys.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 16:27:03 -0400
>Subject: Re: Witness Frustration

>>From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 11:04:33 EST
>>Subject: Witness Frustration

>>Don't you hate it when you've got a UFO witness and they won't
>>talk?

>>What I mean is they won't tell the authorities or the public
>>what they've told you in private. You know their story is true
>>as it is the lynchpin to this debacle but for some reason known
>>only to the muses they won't talk.

><snip>

>Loads of people admit to having had sightings in a safe
>circumstance such as at the end of my lecture "Flying Saucers
>ARE Real". But 90% hadn't reported what they had seen.

>The most common reason is "they would think I was some kind of a
>nut".. also "I tried to report it to the police, or the airport,
>or the radio station and they asked what I had been drinking".

>Fear of ridicule is a powerful emotion.

>I asked one class of about 100 students to answer (raising their
>hands) with their eyes closed so they wouldn't be influenced by
>their classmates. 80% thought most people didn't believe any
>UFOs were alien spacecraft. But 80% of that class thought some
>were.

>Our actions (reporting) are strongly influenced by our
>perception of how others will respond.


Aaaaamen!

This fear of ridicule issue is the most powerful force in human
existence I dread!

It's so strong people will kill others and themselves because of
it. Yet these same people will go to a sports arena, wear a
giant 'cheese' hat, scrawl 'your team bites' on their bare beer
bellies whilst appearing on international television! Yet that's
because they're just 'kidding around'.

Acceptance of the group. Teasing, taunting. Many a war has
started over this foolishness. I remember in anthropology class
in college the average age of humans throughout history was late
teens to twenty somethings. Makes sense.

What really cracks me up is one will watch any disaster
situation on the news and some fellow will inevitably stand up
before a camera, strewn wreckage all about him and state how he
escaped the carnage due to some deity or 'wee folk' or some
'Wishnick' he had tied around his rear view mirror.

Yet if he'd said a corporeal non-human entity he suspects or
declared was from another planet was responsible he'd be carted
off to the nearest psychiatric facility.

Reality and sanity are based not on perception but by what's
comfortable by the powers that be and the masses follow.

Buck that trend and you're dropped off on the island of Patmos.


Best,

Greg








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               Re: Russia Surpasses Americans In Space Race -

From: Mike Woods <mike.woods.nul>
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 11:09:33 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 12:50:58 -0500
Subject: Re: Russia Surpasses Americans In Space Race -


>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 09:39:06 -0800
>Subject: Russia Surpasses Americans In Space Race

>Source: Pravda

>http://english.pravda.ru/mailbox/22/98/387/11928_space.html


Hey List,

I'll add my two cents worth from a couple other angles.

First, I've spent 20 years as a journalist and I was 39 before I
could be convinced Pravda wasn't Russian for Bu****it. During
the days of the evil empire, it spouted the Party line like a
parrot, and when communism fell, Pravda shifted from printing
the Party's b.s. to printing _any_ kind of b.s. They're trying to
be Europe's News of the World... and failing. If they had the
budget for their own rubber alien suit, boyski, then you'd see
journalisminski.

Two, along the lines of Elanor White's memories, I remember a
couple of times astronauts working on the surface would lose
their footing. They'd windmill like Wylie Coyote and slooowwwlly
hit the dust. Yes, I know it can be done with wires... but even
Ron Howard's Apollo 13, arguably the most accurate space movie
ever made couldn't sustain long, uncut zero-gravity
shots... because the vomit-comet aircraft used to create that
weightlessness can only do it for a few short seconds.

And that brings us back to the thrust of Pravda's latest
delivery of bovine by-product: America faked the moon landing.

Sigh.

Go along with that nonsense for a second. You've assembled the
very best special effects people in the world to fake the
landing...and they have to be the very best or the very best
won't be fooled, will they? You gather them wherever, Arizona,
Timbuktu, Sudbury and set them to work. Figure a minimum of
months (hah try to get art director to agree to anything in a
couple months)  to get the set assembled (it's massive remember,
they'll be bouncing across it and driving rovers!) and all of
Hollywood TV and Film production grinds to a halt because all of
the sfx people have mysteriously vanished. All these people work
on these project for a month? six months? a year? (planning,
acquisition of materials, construction, broadcasts, etc.) and
then when they're set free, they never say a word. All those
lighting, sound, set designers, key grips, best boys, riggers,
construction/paint crew, assistants, cameramen, producers,
directors.

Total Silence. Not one spills the beans, not for more than 30
years. The same people who come off the set and tell anyone
who'll listen what color thong Julia Roberts was wearing today.

Right.

All I know is, the crank who is pushing this line of crap is
lucky he waited until Buzz Aldren was in his 70s before acosting
him. If Buzz had been any younger, that lame would have gotten
more than just a fat lip from the punch in the mouth Buzz threw.

This crap distracts us from more important things. Honor the
human cost of space exploration. Hail Columbia.


Mike Woods








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                     President Names Eight Moon Advisers

From: Steven L. Wilson Sr <Ndunlks.nul>
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 11:16:46 EST
Fwd Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 12:53:33 -0500
Subject: President Names Eight Moon Advisers



.c The Associated Press

01/30/04

President Names Eight Moon Advisers

WASHINGTON (AP) - President Bush on Friday named the eight
people from academia and industry who will join former Air Force
Secretary Pete Aldridge on a commission charged with figuring
out how to get humans back to the moon and beyond.

Bush created the Presidential Commission on the Implementation
of United States Space Exploration Policy to advise NASA on his
new space vision. Earlier this month Bush outlined a goal of
sending astronauts back to the moon by 2020 and, eventually, on
to Mars.

The initiative, to be initially funded by $1 billion in new
money over five years and an additional $11 billion diverted
from other NASA projects, also envisions a new spacecraft to
replace the shuttle and carry astronauts beyond low-Earth orbit.

The commission is to offer advice on Bush's plan, including a
moon research agenda; ways to bring in industry and other
countries as partners; and suggestions for increasing young
people's interest in related fields, according to an executive
order Bush signed Friday.

The order instructs the unpaid commission members to provide
recommendations to the president within four months of their
first meeting and to hold sessions to get views from the public
and industry. The commission will be disbanded two months after
delivering a final report.

Joining Aldridge, a one-time astronaut trainee and top Pentagon
official on the commission, are:

Carly Fiorina, chairman and chief executive of Hewlett-Packard.

Michael P. Jackson of Virginia.

Laurie Ann Leshin, a planetary geochemist at Arizona State
University.

Retired Air Force Gen. Lester Lyles.

Paul Spudis, a visiting scientist with the Lunar and Planetary
Institute in Houston.

Neil deGrasse Tyson of the Rose Center for Earth and Space at
the American Museum of Natural History in New York.

Former Rep. Robert S. Walker, R-Pa.

Mars scientist Maria Zuber of the Massachusetts Institute of
Technology.








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                       Re: Witness Frustration - Velez

From: John Veles <johnvelez.aic.nul>
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 11:23:33 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 12:55:04 -0500
Subject: Re: Witness Frustration - Velez


>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 20:12:07 +0000
>Subject: Re: Witness Frustration

>>From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 11:04:33 EST
>>Subject: Witness Frustration

>>Don't you hate it when you've got a UFO witness and they won't
>>talk?

>>What I mean is they won't tell the authorities or the public
>>what they've told you in private. You know their story is true
>>as it is the lynchpin to this debacle but for some reason known
>>only to the muses they won't talk.

>>Sometimes it's not one, it's two or more witnesses.

>>What's perplexing is these same people would fight you to the
>>death if you told them they were lying, if you disrespected
>>their favorite Aunt Bea's cornbread recipe, and Heavan help you
>>if you tell them that catfish wasn't big enough to swallow a
>>preacher's cat.

>>Now you're left to finding out what they're afraid of.
>>Government? Embarrassment?

>>These same people have various awards for bravery both military
>>and civilian. They'll even dress up in a silly costume during
>>any harvest parade. So it ain't embarrassment nor government nor
>>anything logical a fellow with a good night's sleep can figure
>>out.

>It's people like that who make it very hard on less
>"credentialed" witesses and ultimately prevent the truth from
>coming out. They must speak out.

>One of my examples is two science professors at a midwestern
>university who had a sighting that blew their scientific minds,
>and they knew what they were looking at was not of this earth.

>They started to report it, but chickened out.

Hi Dick, Eleanor, All,

Dick wrote:

>Jim McDonald interviewed them and got the story in confidence.

During the several years I worked with Budd Hopkins I learned
that among the abductees that he has worked with are; one high
ranking military official, a police detective, and a
psychiatrist. All credentialed people whose testimony could
bring much needed credibility to the UFO abduction reports of us
all.

But how about witnesses like myself who _do_ come forward and
who are basically disrespected and abused in public as reward
for their trouble. The example isn't very encouraging to others
who may be considering it. Not to mention frustrating to the
witness.

>Maybe I will out them in my memoirs (if anyone ever wants to
>publish my memoirs).

It's 2004 and you have a website, Dick. Publish the memoirs
'electronically' yourself! You can set up a 'Paypal' link that
will allow people to purchase and download _any_ of your
writings/ publications that you hold the rights to. Memoirs
included. Except for website overhead and nominal Paypal
transaction fees, every penny generated by sales will go to you.

It could prove to be a nice little source of additional income!
Don't even think about it, do it.


Warm regards,

John Velez








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               Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Velez

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 11:27:24 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 13:02:07 -0500
Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Velez


>From: Amy Hebert <vanguard.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 00:06:32 -0600
>Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph

>>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 14:17:16 -0400
>>Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph

>>>From: Diane Harrison <auforn.nul>
>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>,
>>>Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 18:56:18 +1000
>>>Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph

>>>>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
>>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>>Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 11:26:50 -0500
>>>>Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph

><snip>

>>>>As for 'Whatzit?' That one is easy... unless it's a supersonic
>>>>balloon, it's a 'classic' flying saucer! :)

><snip>

>>What I said up above is simple, Diane... what _I_ see in the
>>Whittlesea photo is a domed-disc in the sky. It is in the shape
>>of an object that is commonly known and recognized as a "flying
>>saucer". Not to put too fine a point on it, I simply stated that
>>what _I_ see in the photo resembles a "flying saucer" - in the
>>'classic' _shape_ that is the definition of the term.

><snip>

>Hi, John:

Hello Amy,

'Again' you say:

>Please understand that I am not 'attacking' you, John.

This is the not the first time you toss this one at me. What is
it that makes you think that _I_ think you are "attacking" me? I
don't know if it's a symptom of an overinflated sense of
importance you have, or if you are simply trying to paint me as
a 'paranoiac' who perceives personal attacks on all fronts.

Allow me to once and for all relieve you of that 'belief.' I do
not think you are "attacking" me, Amy. I think we can drop that
little comment now, eh?

>I just
>want to discuss your opinions about the object in this
>photograph.

>I'm curious as to why you call it a "flying saucer", classic or
>otherwise. Since we are able to see the object from only one
>point of view or one side, why do you state it is a "domed-disc"
>or shaped like a "flying saucer"? For all we know, it could be
>cigar-shaped, triangular (with only one side visible), football-
>shaped, octogon-shaped, rectangular-shaped with rounded corners
>or perhaps some other shape.

Go to the following link:

http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/ufoupdates/listers/WhatIsee/

What I have done is; I created a three dimensional object (using
Bryce 5 software on my G4 Macintosh CPU) and created a
reproduction of what it is _I_ see in the Whittlesea photo.

First, I created a lens shaped object and turned it on its side
so as to be seen 'edge-on.' I then created a 'sphere', sized it
and then attached it to the lenticular shape/object. After
combining the two into a single object, I added a 'texture' to
the surface of it. I chose 'brushed aluminum' because that is
what the object in the Whittlesea photo resembles.

I then placed the object in relation to the horizon at
'approximately' the same viewing angle we see the Whittlesea
object in. After that I created lighting that comes from the
'right' of the picture just as in the Whittlesea photo.

The end result is almost a dead match-up (sans the motion
blurring) for the object in the Whittlesea photo.

I'll bet the farm that you could take a hundred photos of birds
or insects in flight and not come up with anything that matches
the object in the Whittlesea photo as closely as the 'classic'
UFO shape that I created for demonstartion purposes. If you
_can_ do it... I'm all eyes and ears. Show me, just as I have
shown you. I can back up my perception with something
substantial. ie; the graphics I have provided.

Please show me any photo of a bird or insect in flight that
resembles the object in the Whittlesea photo as closely as my 3D
model does. I'm open.

What I see is a 'domed, siver-metallic disc' shaped object in
the sky. You say 'could be bird' or 'could be a fly', if so,
please show me. I don't see it. Bird or fly.

'Something that closely resembles a 'classic' flying saucer...
yes! That I do see.

Your turn, Amy...

John Velez









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               Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Velez

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 11:28:00 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 13:04:07 -0500
Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Velez


>From: Darren Sensi <mrsensi.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 22:27:16 +0100 (CET)
>Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph

>>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 15:11:16 -0500
>>Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Velez

>>The domed disc really has to be moving at a tremendous speed in
>>order for its image to appear smeared, blurred in the photo.
>>Because of the bright daylight conditions and the speed with
>>which the shutter opened and closed, for that object not be
>>frozen in its tracks, it had to be moving at a fair clip. Fodder
>>for further analysis.

Hi Steve,

You wrote:

>That's the most convincing part about this image for me because
>I would have thought it must be moving at least a quarter of
>it's own length in under the shutter speed of the camera for
>there to be blurring like that. But it's speed could be high or
>low depending on the distance of the object from the camera so
>the distance is probably the first thing to try and establish i
>don't know if that's the approach you would take ?.

Yep, I agree, the very next step that needs to be taken is to
ascertain approximations for distance and size. Bruce Maccabee
has a formula he uses to figure out sizes and distances. But
first, we need to find out some 'knowns'... ie; lens settings,
aperture, whether a zoom was used, approximate distances to
objects in the photo, etc. etc. etc.

Can someone get the raw data from one of the principles,
preferably the civil engineer/cameraman himself. Once we get our
mitts on that info, getting a good 'guesstimate' on the size,
distance and approximate speed of the object is a piece of cake.

If that 'thing' turns out to be only a couple hundred feet away
from the photographer, some folks are going to be hard put to
find a twenty to thirty foot long 'bird' to blame the image on!
 <lol>

>Also the auforn seems to be saying that the image is close to
>the camera because of the amount of blurring around the object?

An explanation of how changes in contrast can create some of
that kind of distortion to appear surrounding an object is not
quite adequate here in this example. The 'distortion' extends
too far out from the object to be simple 'contrast distortion.'
It extends for distance out above and below the object.

>given that the background is in focus. I'm not sure if that
>means the trailing edge of the object or the leading edge; but
>the leading edge appears to have sharpness that's consistant
>with all other objects in the nearby background.

That's because it _is_ the leading edge. The streaking in the
back is motion blur - the image of the object elongated in the
_opposite_ direction of travel. A 'ghost image' of itself in the
space it occupied as it passed before the opened lens.

>That's also
>taking into account that the specular highlight is on that side
>of the object so there would be less contrast than the darker
>edges of other objects in the scene anyway.

A curious 'effect' that comes up often in UFO/UAP photos is the
unusual darkness/blackness on the bottom of the object. It has
been mentioned before and described as; an area where it appears
that light is being 'absorbed' or 'cannot escape from.' Blacker
than it 'should be.' Just another curiosity, or again, maybe
even clue about the nature of the propulsion system.

We'll never find anything out as long as we're mired in non-
 productive arguments about birds and flies. If we can get past
that nonsense, we might actually learn something valuable from
this most remarkable 'flying saucer' photo.

Regards,

John Velez








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             Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Christol

From: Michael Christol <spachopr.nul>
Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 12:23:41 -0600
Fwd Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 16:01:30 -0500
Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Christol


>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
>Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 22:57:32 -0500
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph


Hi John:

I looked at your rendition of what you think the object
looks like. Not bad......

Might I suggest you tilt the front edge of your object down so
the angles of the two objects match up better. This way we will
get a better idea of how close your idea fits.


Mike







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              Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Bright

From: Dan Bright <ufo.nul>
Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 18:36:09 -0000
Fwd Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 16:02:56 -0500
Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Bright


>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 11:28:00 -0500
>Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph

<snip>

>first, we need to find out some 'knowns'... ie; lens settings,
>aperture, whether a zoom was used, approximate distances to
>objects in the photo, etc. etc. etc.

>Can someone get the raw data from one of the principles,
>preferably the civil engineer/cameraman himself. Once we get our
>mitts on that info, getting a good 'guesstimate' on the size,
>distance and approximate speed of the object is a piece of cake.

For the benefit of those who don't have access to photoshop or
something similar, the EXIF data provides the following:

The camera was: KODAK DC240 ZOOM DIGITAL CAMERA
Exposure time: 1/250 seconds
F-stop: 9.5
Date/time: January 15 2004, 14:52:46
Shutter Speed: 1/256 seconds
Aperture Value: 6.5
Metering Mode: Average
Focal Length: 10mm
Pixel X Dimension: 1280
Pixel Y Dimension: 960

Not everything, but it's a start.

Best,
Dan

--
Dan Bright
www.theunexplained.info







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                       Elements 113 And 115 Discovered

From: William Wise <w.wise.nul>
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 14:07:25 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 16:05:19 -0500
Subject: Elements 113 And 115 Discovered


Source: The New York Times

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/02/01/science/01ELEM.html

February 1, 2004

Uut and Uup Add Their Atomic Mass to Periodic Table

By James Glanz

A team of Russian and American scientists are reporting today
that they have created two new chemical elements, called
superheavies because of their enormous atomic mass. The
discoveries fill a gap at the furthest edge of the periodic
table and hint strongly at a weird landscape of undiscovered
elements beyond.

The team, made up of scientists from Lawrence Livermore National
Laboratory in California and the Joint Institute for Nuclear
Research in Dubna, Russia, is disclosing its findings in a paper
being published today in Physical Review C, a leading chemistry
journal. The paper was reviewed by scientific peers outside the
research group before publication.

"Two new elements have been produced," said Dr. Walt Loveland, a
nuclear chemist at Oregon State University who is familiar with
the research. "It's just incredibly exciting. It seems to open
up the possibility of synthesizing more elements beyond this."

The periodic table is the oddly shaped checkerboard =97 with an H
for hydrogen, the lightest element, in the upper-left-hand
corner =97 that hangs in chemistry classrooms the world over. Each
element has a different number of protons, particles with a
positive electrical charge, in the dense central kernel called
the nucleus.

The number of protons, beginning with one for hydrogen, fixes an
element's place in the periodic table and does much to determine
an element's chemical properties: ductile and metallic at room
temperature for gold (No. 79), gaseous and largely inert for
neon (10), liquid and toxic for mercury (80).

Elements as heavy as uranium, No. 92 on the list, are found in
nature, and others have been created artificially. But much
heavier elements have been difficult to make, partly because
they became increasingly unstable and short-lived.

Still, for roughly half a century, nuclear scientists have been
searching for an elusive "island of stability," somewhere among
the superheavies, in which long-lived elements with new chemical
properties might exist. Dr. Loveland said that the new results
indicated that scientists might be closing in on that island.

"We're sort of in the shoals of the island of stability," said
Dr. Kenton J. Moody, a Livermore nuclear physicist who was one
of the experimenters in the work.

"It's an amazing effect," he added. "We're really just chipping
away at the edges of it."

The experiments took place at a cyclotron, a circular particle
accelerator, in Dubna, where the scientists fired a rare isotope
of calcium at americium, an element used in applications as
varied as nuclear weapons research and household smoke
detectors. Four times during a month of 24-hour-a-day
bombardment in July and August, scientists on the experiment
said, a calcium nucleus fused with an americium nucleus and
created a new element.

Each calcium nucleus contains 20 protons and americium 95. Since
the number of protons determines where an element goes in the
periodic table, simple addition shows the new element to bear
the atomic number 115, which had never been seen before. Within
a fraction of a second, the four atoms of Element 115 decayed
radioactively to an element with 113 protons. That element had
never been seen, either. The atoms of 113 lasted for as long as
1.2 seconds before decaying radioactively to known elements.

Scientists generally do not give permanent names to elements and
write them into textbooks until the discoveries have been
confirmed by another laboratory. By an international convention
based on the numbers, element 113 will be given the temporary
name Ununtrium (abbreviated Uut for the periodic table) and
element 115 will be designated Ununpentium (Uup).

Dr. Loveland said he agreed that the new elements would require
independent confirmation before they could receive final
acceptance. And he conceded that the Dubna find was likely to
receive more than the usual amount of scrutiny: two years ago,
the reported discovery of Element 118 was retracted after a
scientist at Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory was found to
have fabricated evidence.

The only other truly simultaneous discovery of two elements in
recent times came in 1952, when einsteinium (99) and fermium
(100) were discovered in the fallout from the hydrogen bomb
explosion at Eniwetok Atoll in the Pacific Ocean. The most
recent successful discovery of an element =97 one that has
received a name =97 came in 1994. That element, No. 110, is called
Darmstadtium for the city in Germany where it was discovered.

But as scientists wait for confirmation on elements 115 and 113,
the data presented by the Dubna and Livermore groups appear
solid, said Dr. Sigurd Hofmann, a nuclear physicist at the
Institute for Heavy Ion Research in Darmstadt, the laboratory
where Darmstadtium was found.

"These Dubna data look quite convincing," Dr. Hofmann said. "And
I'm sure with some more experiments, it will finally be
accepted."

Dr. Joshua B. Patin, a 28-year-old nuclear chemist who is the
lead American author on the paper, said he had found it deeply
moving to add two more entries to a scientific icon that dates
to the 1860's. That was when the Russian chemist Dmitri
Ivanovich Mendeleyev noted clear patterns in the chemical
properties of the known elements and arranged them into the
periodic table, leaving gaps for other elements that he
correctly predicted would someday turn up.

"This is a working piece of art," Dr. Patin said. "We're not
done yet. Nothing's been finished. What it could really mean
down the road, nobody can tell. And that's the part that's
exciting to me."

The lead authorship on the work went to Dr. Yuri Oganessian,
scientific director of the Flerov Laboratory of Nuclear
Reactions at the Joint Institute for Nuclear Research in Dubna,
whose theoretical research in the 1970's revealed the path that
eventually led to the most recent discoveries.

The experimental group that Dr. Oganessian leads is especially
skilled at using extremely small amounts of the rare calcium
isotope in the bombardment and at filtering out signals from
just a handful of new atoms among the debris spewing from the
collisions.

"These elemental discoveries underscore both the value of
federally supported basic research and the benefit of unfettered
international scientific collaboration," said Energy Secretary
Spencer Abraham, whose agency helped finance the work.

In a written response to questions, Dr. Oganessian said the
results "favor the conclusion about the formation of a new
element and refute any other interpretation." He added that
confirmation of the work was necessary, but that everything had
been done to ensure that the analysis was correct.

"In order to exclude the human factor," Dr. Oganessian said,
"the analysis of the data is carried out in parallel and
independently by the two groups in Dubna and in Livermore."

Physicists long ago discovered that atomic nuclei have what came
to be known as "magic numbers." Nuclei that contain just those
numbers of protons and their electrically neutral cousins,
neutrons, are especially stable. The numbers 2, 8, 20, 28, 50,
82 are magic for both protons and neutrons.

Theoretically, those numbers come about because nuclei have a
shell-like structure, said Dr. Witold Nazarewicz, a nuclear
theorist at the University of Tennessee and Oak Ridge National
Laboratory. Each shell can hold particular numbers of protons
and neutrons, and a nucleus is most stable when its shells are
precisely filled up, leading to the magic numbers.

The highest known magic number for neutrons is 126, meaning that
common lead, with 82 protons and 126 neutrons in its nucleus is
the heaviest known "doubly magic," or extremely stable, isotope
in the periodic table.

"The question is, what is the next doubly magic nucleus beyond
lead?" Dr. Nazarewicz said.

Those numbers should help map out what Dr. Nazarewicz prefers to
call generically a "region of stability" among the superheavies.
(Because, he says, it could resemble a peninsula more than an
island.) Various theories have suggested that the next magic
proton number is 114, 120 or 126, he said. There is general
agreement that the next magic neutron number is 184, he said.

The new experiments by the Livermore and Dubna scientists
created forms of element 115, for example, with at most 173
neutrons, suggesting that they are still short of what could be
a land of strange new forms of matter.

Rather than being round, nuclei in that region and beyond could
contain bubbles and have strange doughnut-like shapes, Dr.
Nazarewicz said.

They could also have unpredictable chemical properties.

The new work should shed light on whether theories of those
undiscovered bits of matter are correct or not, he said.

"Those discoveries tell us a great deal about the underlying
nuclear structure," Dr. Nazarewicz said. "About how the very
heaviest systems are built =97 how they tick."

Dr. Darleane C. Hoffman, a nuclear chemist at the University of
California, Berkeley, also cautioned that the new findings would
have to be checked out by other laboratories. But she said the
value of the work was unquestioned.

"Scientifically, just for the pure science of it, wouldn't you
like to know just how many chemical elements there are?" Dr.
Hoffman said. "And until you actually have a measurement that
you believe and you can confirm, you don't have any idea whether
the various models the theorists propose have any meaning at
all."








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               Re: Russia Surpasses Americans In Space Race -

From: Stan Friedman <fsphys.nul>
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 15:27:56 -0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 16:08:06 -0500
Subject: Re: Russia Surpasses Americans In Space Race -


>From: Mike Woods <mike.woods.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 11:09:33 -0500
>Subject: Re: Russia Surpasses Americans In Space Race

>>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 09:39:06 -0800
>>Subject: Russia Surpasses Americans In Space Race

>>Source: Pravda

>>http://english.pravda.ru/mailbox/22/98/387/11928_space.html

>Hey List,

>I'll add my two cents worth from a couple other angles.

<snip>

>All I know is, the crank who is pushing this line of crap is
>lucky he waited until Buzz Aldren was in his 70s before acosting
>him. If Buzz had been any younger, that lame would have gotten
>more than just a fat lip from the punch in the mouth Buzz threw.

>This crap distracts us from more important things. Honor the
>human cost of space exploration. Hail Columbia.


Please note tht the Pravda article ignored the Borman, Lovell,
Anders flight around the moon (without Landing). Furthermore
talk about a rocket speed of 1500 mph is absurd.

The orbiting craft is moving at about 17,000 mph and goes up to
25,000mph as it is boosted out of orbit and then coasts, slowing
down, the rest of the way until the moon grabs it and speeds it
up.

The total operating time for the rockets is about 17 minutes out
of the 69 hour trip time to the moon.

Apparently the Pravda guy, as with many others, assumes rockets
are firing all the time on the way to a space rendezvous which
is totally wrong. There is a lot of cosmic freeloading going on.


Stan Friedman







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              Re: Has A UFO Ever Killed A Diesel Engine? - St.

From: Greg St. Pierre <Gregstpie.nul>
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 14:28:07 EST
Fwd Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 16:11:08 -0500
Subject: Re: Has A UFO Ever Killed A Diesel Engine? - St.


>From: Eleanor White <eleanor.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 08:16:33 -0500
>Subject: Has A UFO Ever Killed A Diesel Engine?

>Have UFOs ever been reported to kill a diesel engine?

>Eleanor White

As an automotive technician, I believe I can offer some insight
into the diesel engine question.

For those who don't understand the difference between a gas engine
and a diesel engine, here it is in a nutshell:

In a gas engine (and sticking to modern designs), the fuel is
sprayed into the combustion chambers by electromagnetic fuel
injectors, which are opened and closed by the vehicle's
computer. The fuel going into the injectors is pressurized by an
electrical fuel pump, which is also enabled or disabled by the
computer. The gas is ignited by the ignition system, which is
composed of spark plugs, plug wires, in some cases a
distributor, a coil or series of coils, and the computer. Any
one of these components could be disabled by a strong EM field.
The computer is particularly vulnerable, having many ROM and RAM
chips, and delicate driver (switching) circuits.

In a diesel system we find some of the same components. A fuel
pump, fuel injectors, and a computer. The main difference is
found with the lack of an ignition system. In a diesel engine,
the fuel-air mixture is ignited by being highly compressed (and
therefore heated) by the pistons. Some of these systems have
mechanically operated fuel injectors, which would not be prone
to EM field interruption. Some older designs have mechanical
fuel pumps, also not vulnerable. Any diesel systems with
electrical versions of the above could be candidates for a scary
encounter.

I feel most diesel engines in use today could theoretically be
disabled by a strong EM field. The small number of cases
available may be more of a factor of the ratio of gas/diesel
engines on the road than the susceptibility of diesel engines.


Hope this helps,

Greg St. Pierre








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              Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Ledger

From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 15:34:24 -0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 16:13:57 -0500
Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Ledger


>From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 12:50:21 -0600
>Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph

>>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 19:14:00 -0400
>>Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph

>>maybe for once we could hazard a guess as to whether it is a
>>"classic" UFO.

>Whoa, Nellie! What's the big rush? Do you know something more
>about the photo than the rest of us?


Nope. but I know enough about the timidity of "ufologists" who
rather than confront the object and strip it to its bare
essentials are loath to go out on a limb and usually just mouth
off about it for awhile then dump it. Maybe it is as bug as Ray
Stanford says, I don't think so, but it's got some solidity
going for it and perhaps a field surrounding it that makes it
interesting from that point of view [a result of it's propulsive
method perhaps]. And what do you mean, "What's the rush?", 60
odd years isn't good enough for you?

>>This means bite the bullet and pronounce ourselves as to it is
>>an extraterrestrial craft under intelligent control-or that it's
>>an IFO and then prove what the IFO is. Or at the very least
>>assign a high probability as to what it is.

>As it stands now, it's an image of a train crossing with a
>blurry something-or-other in it. Maybe a flying saucer. If it
>is, it sure is a crappy photo of one, as there are dozens if not
>hundreds of better, clearer photos of flying saucers around. As
>for waving our wands over it and declaring it an alien
>spacecraft, what evidence is there of that? If we're going to
>call it alien, we might as well say where it's from and why
>they're here while we're at it, because we have just as much
>evidence to support those claims as the first, namely none.

They are all crappy photos, but this shows some detail, a
leading[?] edge and a possible field of some sort around it.

>Perhaps it would have been a little different had the
>photographer experienced something more (or even seen the
>"craft" in the photo), but he evidently didn't. And that would
>only add a tiny fraction of information to the question, and
>certainly not enough to draw any conclusions.

Ah that's nonesense. Why blow off a picture because the
photographer didn't see it through the viewfinder? If it was
travelling too fast for the eye to perceive but the camera
shutter did see it, why does that make it less viable than one
seen with the naked eye.

>No, what we need to do is file this one away with the others
>determined to be "inconclusive," and get on with it. If more
>information comes to light, we'll review it, but at this point,
>there's nothing more to add.

Yeah, like I said, blow it off. But of course there is more to
add. I haven't seen much of Bruce Maccabee on the lists lately.
This is right up his ally.

I'm getting too old to manage my time. I've been waiting for 54
years for some answers.


Don Ledger










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               Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Velez

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 15:15:10 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 16:16:56 -0500
Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Velez


>From: Amy Hebert <vanguard.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 07:46:47 -0600
>Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph

>>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 15:56:12 -0500
>>Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph

>>>From: Dan Bright <ufo.nul>
>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 19:12:14 -0000
>>>Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Bright

>>>I've posted two non-bicubic (genuine fractals algorithm)
>>>enlargements on my site for the benefit of those who don't have
>>>access to such image re-sampling software:

>>>Image and enlargements: http://tinyurl.com/2espv

><snip>

>>Twaddle! I have taken the time to post an example taken from the
>>photo which refutes the claim of Mr. Anonymous that lighting and
>>shadows are inconsistent between the crossing sign and the
>>object in the sky.

>>"Expert" my eye!
>>See:

>>http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/ufoupdates/listers/WhatIsee/

>>...and scroll to the last image on the page. Make up your own
>>mind. So much for "anonymous experts" eh?

Hello Amy, All,

Here we go again....you wrote:

>Although I see no evidence the photograph in question has been
>faked, I did find various inconsistencies in your example.

Let me see if I get this straight, you don't see any evidence of
fakery in the Whittlesea photo but _I_ am faking my
illustrations. Am I reading you correctly?

I'm not even going to dignify that lame accusation with a
response. I will however accept your 'amateur' opinion (for what
it's worth) that you don't find any evidence of fakery in the
Whittlesea photo.

>In reproducing your 3D model of the Whittlesea UFO using my own
>Bryce 5 (I use Bryce 5, Poser, Adobe, Paint Shop Pro 8 and
>numerous other programs to create 3D graphics for my research
>and the book I am writing),

Wow! Writing a 'book' eh? I'll bet getting some attention so
people will want to read it is an important activity eh?

BTW, I'm impressed with all the software you own. I have 'oodles
of software too.' I spent two years of my life (full-time) in
computer labs at Long Island University learning how to use it
all. Where did you go to learn to use yours?

>I discovered, quite by accident,
>that the sun could not have been in the position you claim it
>was in.

That must have been some accident, Amy. Without having seen the
mesh from my original to know precisely 'where' in the 3D
space/environment I placed the object I created and the light
source in the scene, you have determined that the sun was not in
the position I "claim" it was in.

And you were able to determine that by randomly placing objects
'in your 3D space and assuming that it is identical to where I
placed mine. You missed your calling; ufology is a waste of your
talents, should be working for the psychic hotline!

Give me a break, please.....

>Also in the process of analyzing the object in the photograph, I
>developed another example of what the object may be. I had
>thought it might be a bird but an accidental nudge of the mouse
>caused an over contrast of the image and gave me a whole new
>perspective of what might have been photographed.

>Go to:

>http://a-realitycheck.com/whittleseaufo/analysis.htm

Sister Mary Margaret, don't make me laugh! This is a joke right?
If you see a 'fly' in the Whittlesea photo you really need to
have your eyes examined.

To call your graphic depiction and comparison of a fly to the
Whittlesea photo a 'wild stretch of the imagination' is to give
it more credit than it deserves. Get yer eyes checked, lady!

You see a "fly!"  <LMAO>

>We will probably never know what the Whittlesea UFO really was.

Sadly, no, we will probably never know the truth about the
Whittlesea photo. Thanks to *amateurs with an Internet soapbox
we can all look forward to having ever more obstacles to
overcome.

When this List first started it was closed to all save people
who had a 'legitimate' connection to the phenomenon. ie;
research people, investigators, their witnesses etc. Don't get
me wrong, I love the richness that the influx of voices, ideas,
and theories that manifested when EBK opened the List to the
public. It's just that in order to gain the benefits of an 'open
List', the price paid was an increase in static noise from
'armchair' amateurs with Internet access, some software, a book
to sell, a website to promote and two cents worth of very
personal theories and opinions.

So far the diversity gained has been worth the price. I just
pine for the old days from time to time is all.  ;)


John Velez








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             Re: Has A UFO Ever Killed A Diesel Engine? - Ledger

From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 16:17:53 -0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 16:19:28 -0500
Subject: Re: Has A UFO Ever Killed A Diesel Engine? - Ledger


>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 19:59:29 +0000
>Subject: Re: Has A UFO Ever Killed A Diesel Engine?

>>From: Eleanor White <eleanor.nul>To:
>>ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 08:16:33 -0500
>>Subject: Has A UFO Ever Killed A Diesel Engine?

>>Have UFOs ever been reported to kill a diesel engine?

>The short answer is "yes" (on occasion), but usually no. It depends,
>according to engineers I have talked with about this, on the
>particular ignition system of the diesel engine. The ignitions
>differ. In fact, in all EM effect cases on vehicles, investigators
>should be careful to document the type of ignition in that particular
>vehicle.


Hi Dick,

Good point. Ignition systems seem to be the key. Take for
example light aircraft or any aircraft using gas/recip-engines.
There have been many cases of close encounters with UFOs by
these aircraft without the engines being killed. At least that
are documented or survived to relate the tale. Engine problems
have occurred, but perhaps this is due to the fact that for the
most part they use magnetos rather than distributors for spark.

There are aircraft flying now with Diesel engines, rotary
engines and Dyna-cam engines [they can idle at 75 rpm].

There has to be spark for the gas engines but Diesel depends on
Glo-plugs to start and high compression and the generated heat
to keep them running. The timing is mechanical. It could be
though that some extremely high Gauss field could temporarily
weld [lock them up] the the steel/nickle/chrome components of
these engines and stall them.


Best,

Don Ledger









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               Re: Michael J. Woods On NASA's Motives - Woods

From: Mike Woods <mike.woods.nul>
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 15:35:45 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 16:23:16 -0500
Subject: Re: Michael J. Woods On NASA's Motives - Woods


>From: Eleanor White <eleanor.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 10:05:24 -0500
>Subject: Michael J. Woods On NASA's Motives

Hey All,

I'll stand by my comments.

>Michael stated that NASA could not be covering up artifacts
>because nothing would spur generous budget allocations like
>finding artificial structures and implements on Mars.

I said I don't believe NASA would cover up.... Of course they
could be covering up artifacts on Mars. The U-S bombed Cambodia
in the 1960 for months and only the Cambodians and the pilots
knew about it.

>Both UFO abductees and mind control targets (bad term, but the
>most popular unfortunately) have been reporting extremely
>advanced technology being used on them for decades.

Still wanting for a solid, reliable analysis of an implant from
either camp. Most AA experiencer reports that I've read
(admitedly, not all) have NOT described beyond-tomorrow
technology.

>The MKULTRA era mind control programs, the COINTELPRO crimes,
>the broadcast revelations that unexploded bombs were planted
>inside the Oklahoma City federal building on video tape (?), the
>proving in public court by Virginia lawyer that the Virginia
>Supreme Court was altering transcripts, and quite a few other
>incidents, show that conspiracies happen.

I don't recall say there are no such thing as conspiracies. I
just said I question the mindset that sees a conspiracy in
everything. Sometimes, the cat gets pregnant without government
intrevention. I also question whether the size of the cover-up
needed within NASA could stay covered up. Why not? Look at the
examples Eleanor is citing. If true, they show cover-ups fail;
just ask the ghost of Richard Nixon. Contra-wise, if untrue,
they do show our willingness to believe in conspiracies,
especially involving governments.

>There is no logical reason to presume NASA is somehow immune
>from conspiracies, or that anyone who speaks about conspiratorial
>activity is crazy. Anyone who has lived through going to school
>knows that cliques and conspiracies are natural and normal.

Didn't say people who believe in conspiracies are crazy or NASA
was immune, I don't need anyone putting words in my mouth. And
there is one helluva difference between not inviting Bobby and
Jill to the party at your house when you're in high school and
hiding alien artifacts on images that are being beamed-in live
in front of the world media.

>NASA's actions make it plain to all who reject arbitrary
>application of the standard "conspiracy theory" labelling that
>some reason other than budget size is motivating their
>behaviour.

Huh? I reject the arbitrary application of the standard
conspiracy theory behind the Mars color controversy. First, it's
far from proven they are altering images/colors on data from
Mars. Second, it sure as hell is _not_ plain that some reason
other than budget size is motivating them and there's no hint of
evidence to support it.

Having said that, my only other response is.....

Well said, Eleanor. Always food for thought. Truth is a shifty
and changing thing these days, and the further we are away from
the truth - about 60 million miles these days, in the case of
Mars - the harder it is to nail down. Some days it feels like
we're trying to nail Jello to a wall.


Regards all,

Mike W.









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                        Re: Are UFOs Real? - Lehmberg

From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg.nul>
Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 15:33:59 -0600
Fwd Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 16:46:34 -0500
Subject: Re: Are UFOs Real? - Lehmberg


>From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg.nul>
>Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 10:23:58 -0600
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Subject: Re: Are UFOs Real?

>>From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 21:01:43 -0400
>>Subject: Re: Are UFOs Real?

>>Just for the record, I definitely indicated that I did not have
>>a PhD. The first caller insisted this UFO stuff was all the work
>>of the devil. The second said it wasn't the work of the devil
>>because she had seen one.....

>>The debate drew the biggest audience the Freethought Alliance at
>>MTSU had ever attracted. Overflow. I will be on with Errol et al,
>>on SDI tonight:

>Alright! I can't WAIT for the show tonight! Please keep us up
>to date on tape availability... I want to write about it! I -
>_know_ there's an Ode in it! [g].


I listened to the program last night... (Friedman on recent
debate with CSICOPia) ...talk about damning Dr. McGaha with
faintest of faint praises... but the description of the event
left a hole in me of considerable size none the less. I wanted
to hear who the clear winner was. I wanted to be regaled with
tales of Dr. McGaha wallowing in abject defeat and being driven
before Mr. Friedman's logical and factual arguments like an
incompetent pugilist in stumbling retreat. I wanted to glory in
the puling cries of Dr. Mcgaha's lamenting women. LOL!

No disrespect meant to Dr. Mcgaha, personally, I'm sure he's a
peach of a guy... but to fill in as an agent of CSICOPia for a
(ufological) draft-dodging Doctor Nickell... guarantees him a
larded pelicanist womb to return to and lick his wounds... Hey!
He had the stone to show up! Wherefore art the CSICOP big guns,
prithy"?

"He's make me look like a fool; he's done it before"! says Dr.
Nickell. "He'll cost me money, _and_ make me look like a fool"!
says the not so amazing Randi.

"People might stop buying my dissembling and skepty-bunky
screeds!" says Dr. Shermer.

"Woo-woo cosmic conspiracy water droplets precipitated from
pelicans flying inverted in a temperature inversion... and he's
been making me look foolish for decades... it's somebody else's
turn..." says Mr. Klass.

Still - the good Doctor should be shot and otherwise pilloried
for reenlisting that old lie about astronomers not seeing
UFOs... he should have been slapped off the stage for that
alone...

Please post that address to get a copy of the tape ASAP, Mr.
Friedman. I want to do a detailed report on it.


Lehmberg.nul

EXPLORE "AlienViewGroup" at its HostPros URL.
http://www.alienview.net


JOHN FORD RESTORATION FUND -- John will be released eventually.
He'll need a tax free cash stake to get on his feet. Let's put
one together for him; the bigger it is -- the more attention
he gets. It could have been you. E-mail for detail.
$450.00 pledged -- $200.00 collected!

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite.
What others see from afar, I leave far behind me."
- Giordano Bruno, scourged by the scabrously specious scurrilous.








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             Silent Post In Memory Of The Shuttle Columbia Crew

From: Terry Groff <terry.nul>
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 16:03:57 -0600
Fwd Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 17:14:43 -0500
Subject: Silent Post In Memory Of The Shuttle Columbia Crew


































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              Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Ledger

From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 17:40:54 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 10:04:18 -0500
Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Ledger


>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 11:27:24 -0500
>Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph

>>From: Amy Hebert <vanguard.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 00:06:32 -0600
>>Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph

>Go to the following link:

>http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/ufoupdates/listers/WhatIsee/

<snip>

Hi John, Amy,

I've not seen any reference to the time of day the photo was
taken. And like John, I can't see any relationship to a bird or
bug in this picture. That's too convienient. As for blurring
being caused by the object being close to the lens-humbug. I
suggest that the blurring is caused by it's speed through the
air which 1] was not captured at precisely the right shutter
speed, or 2] the object's passage through the air is
superheating the air envelope surrounding it or, 3] the object's
motivating powersource itself is causing the blurring possibly
through light defraction.

There are several other things in the photo which should be
noted, though they may or may not be important. The two signal
lights [fore and background] are out of sync with one another.
The foreground signal's left light is fading while the right is
getting brighter. They flash back and forth which in this case
the camera's shutter froze. The background signal's left light
has reached it's peak intensity.

If this was taken just after high-noon then the light is coming
from the  photographer's right side and behind him. the
photographer was then facing south. If before high-noon the
photographer was facing north.

Just observations.


Don Ledger









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              Re: Michael J. Woods On NASA's Motives - Fleming

From: Lan Fleming <lfleming5.nul>
Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 16:27:19 -0600
Fwd Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 10:06:32 -0500
Subject: Re: Michael J. Woods On NASA's Motives - Fleming


>From: Eleanor White <eleanor.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 10:05:24 -0500
>Subject: Michael J. Woods On NASA's Motives

<snip>

>Michael stated that NASA could not be covering up artifacts
>because nothing would spur generous budget allocations like
>finding artificial structures and implements on Mars.  I'd like
>to comment that Michael's point would only be true _if_ NASA
>management and higher members of the NASA chain of command are,
>behind the scenes and above all else, wanting a larger budget.

Whenever someone criticizes NASA, the assertion is always made
by somebody that NASA couldn't be biased against finding life
because they'd get a larger budget if they did. That's an
extremely simplistic view. NASA is not a monolithic organization
where everyone shares the same goals. An increase in NASA's
budget for searching for evidence of life (which is close to
zero right now) would likely mean a decrease in the budget for
geologists to search for rocks. To some extent, it's a zero sum
game. There are always going to be turf battles and short-
sighted struggles over who gets the available funds as opposed
to cooperative planning on how to get more funds for everybody.

The early images from the Spirit rover showed a number of
unusual-looking porous rocks and that "mud-like" material that
nobody has explained yet. Instead of sending the rover to
examine the interesting features close to where it landed, they
ignored them and sent the rover straight to an uninteresting-
looking volcanic rock. Spirit may have lost an Opportunity here
(pun intended) for some major discoveries. To me this sort of
decision suggests a bias in favor of the familiar over the
unfamiliar and unexpected. I would think it should be the other
way around on a mission of exploration.

Speaking of different organizations internal to NASA having
different agendas: I recently read in disbelief that Northwest
Airlines has admitted sending personal information about their
passengers to NASA without the passengers knowing about it. It
almost sounds like a paranoid conspiracy theory, but it
apparently is a fact that NASA has been involved in what amounts
to spying on the public in the name of national security. It
makes me wonder if acronym "NASA" now stands for the National
Airline Spy Agency. I doubt that whatever NASA group is involved
in these covert intelligence activities cares much about whether
or not there's life on Mars - unless the Martians are booking
flights on Northwest.








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              Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Chapman

From: Mary Chapman <alfie107.nul>
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 14:33:37 -0800
Fwd Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 10:09:59 -0500
Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Chapman


>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 15:15:10 -0500
>Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph

<snip>

>Sadly, no, we will probably never know the truth about the
>Whittlesea photo. Thanks to *amateurs with an Internet soapbox
>we can all look forward to having ever more obstacles to
>overcome.

>When this List first started it was closed to all save people
>who had a 'legitimate' connection to the phenomenon. ie;
>research people, investigators, their witnesses etc. Don't get
>me wrong, I love the richness that the influx of voices, ideas,
>and theories that manifested when EBK opened the List to the
>public. It's just that in order to gain the benefits of an 'open
>List', the price paid was an increase in static noise from
>'armchair' amateurs with Internet access, some software, a book
>to sell, a website to promote and two cents worth of very
>personal theories and opinions.

>So far the diversity gained has been worth the price. I just
>pine for the old days from time to time is all. ;)


John,

I completely understand your desire to go back to the old days
when this List was more private. Honestly I do! But speaking
from an 'outsider's' or 'public' viewpoint, I want to personally
thank you and your team for opening it up to us.

There _are_ a plethora of interested bystanders who are
benefitted by you and your colleagues' ideas and expertise on
the subjects presented here. Believe me, I among many (IMHO)
value the information we glean from this List. You all have
brought the UFO 'phenom' to a higher standard of possibility,
probability, and believability... again IMHO!

I imagine for those of us who have no expertise, but who _do_
have experiences with UFOs, whether that be sightings and/or
visitations, a List like this brings comfort in a way. Comfort
because you all seem to be intelligent and probing 'warriors'
who bring us little people up a notch by your honest inquiry
about the 'Unknown'! You want to know what _we_ want to know,
and you are not afraid to lead the quest into our future.

I just wanted to commend you and _thank_you_ for all your
efforts here on UFO UpDates! Keep on keeping on! You _are_
appreciated!


Mary Chapman








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              Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Bright

From: Dan Bright <ufo.nul>
Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 22:39:33 -0000
Fwd Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 10:11:40 -0500
Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Bright


>From: Amy Hebert <vanguard.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 07:46:47 -0600
>Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph

>>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 15:56:12 -0500
>>Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph

>You claim the light is coming from above, to the right and
>slightly in *front* of all the objects in the photo. You also
>claim the sun would have been over and slightly *behind* the
>photographer's right shoulder. If this is true, where is the
>photographer's shadow?

Hi Amy, John, listers:

The azimuth of the sun at 14:52pm, for Whittlesea Australia
(Lat: 37=B0 31' South, Long: 145=B0, 07' East), on January 15 2004
would have been 29.9=B0. The Altitude would have been 71.5=B0:

http://aa.usno.navy.mil/

The railway line that is present in the image probably runs
South to North (Melbourne to Epping). The sun would be to the
West (North would be to the right of the image). This
corresponds with the shadows that are visible te ground.

The precise pattern and intensity of reflection and shadow on
the object would surely depend upon it's precise shape,
dimensions, attitude, altitude, surface material, atmospheric
haze, so on and so forth, which of course we don't know.

For what it's worth, I've also done a few test renders of a
domed disk in various positions (with the sun set as stated
above):

http://www.zaziork.com/astrobservation/whittlesea_demo.htm


Best to all,

Dan

www.theunexplained.info








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                        Re: Are UFOs Real? - Friedman

From: Stan Friedman <fsphys.nul>
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 18:17:26 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 09:19:12 -0500
Subject: Re: Are UFOs Real? - Friedman


>From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 15:33:59 -0600
>Subject: Re: Are UFOs Real?

<snip>

>I listened to the program last night... (Friedman on recent
>debate with CSICOPia) ...talk about damning Dr. McGaha with
>faintest of faint praises... but the description of the event
>left a hole in me of considerable size none the less. I wanted
>to hear who the clear winner was. I wanted to be regaled with
>tales of Dr. McGaha wallowing in abject defeat and being driven
>before Mr. Friedman's logical and factual arguments like an
>incompetent pugilist in stumbling retreat. I wanted to glory in
>the puling cries of Dr. Mcgaha's lamenting women. LOL!

>No disrespect meant to Dr. Mcgaha, personally, I'm sure he's a
>peach of a guy... but to fill in as an agent of CSICOPia for a
>(ufological) draft-dodging Doctor Nickell... guarantees him a
>larded pelicanist womb to return to and lick his wounds... Hey!
>He had the stone to show up! Wherefore art the CSICOP big guns,
>prithy"?

>"He's make me look like a fool; he's done it before"! says Dr.
>Nickell. "He'll cost me money, _and_ make me look like a fool"!
>says the not so amazing Randi.

>"People might stop buying my dissembling and skepty-bunky
>screeds!" says Dr. Shermer.

>"Woo-woo cosmic conspiracy water droplets precipitated from
>pelicans flying inverted in a temperature inversion... and he's
>been making me look foolish for decades... it's somebody else's
>turn..." says Mr. Klass.

>Still - the good Doctor should be shot and otherwise pilloried
>for reenlisting that old lie about astronomers not seeing
>UFOs... he should have been slapped off the stage for that
>alone...

>Please post that address to get a copy of the tape ASAP, Mr.
>Friedman. I want to do a detailed report on it.

Some quickie responses:

1. It is definitely Mr. McGaha _not_ Dr.

2. It was very structured... no back and forth argumentation

3. No attempt was made to determine a "winner", unfortunately.

4. The Debate tape will be available from me at:

POB 958,
Houlton,
ME 04730-0958

US$15.; Canadian
$20CAD; UK 14 pounds

For Canadians and Brits send to:

Stan Friedman
79 Pembroke
Crescent
Fredericton
NB Canada
E3B 2V1

The price includes shipping.

Stan Friedman









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                 Resend: Colin Andrew's Lightning UFO Photo

From: Dave Haith visions.nul=20
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 22:52:06 -0000
Fwd Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 10:32:01 -0500
Subject: Resend: Colin Andrew's Lightning UFO Photo


A resend (with added link) because of mailing problems


I have received the following from Colin Andrews the well known
crop circle researcher. I wonder if photographic experts on this
List could comment on what they make of this image?

---

Object on film during severe thunderstorm for analysis. Any
thoughts or ideas are appreciated.

The object was in a series of long exposure photographs I took
during a severe thunderstorm on the 22nd July 1983, in Salisbury
Road, Andover, England =96 facing south east. The object is also
on the negative.

The object appears to be positioned precisely between two
separate triggers.

The object was not seen at the time. One of these series of
strikes hit a 132,000 Volts overhead transmission wire and put
the power out to most of the town that night. None of the 30
photographs taken during the storm have anything unusual on
them.

Details: Approximately one minute exposure, using the =91B=92
setting at F11-16 on the Chinon 35 mm camera. Film was 100 ASA
Fuji, high definition film.

Colin

Colin Andrews =96 C.P.R. International
Box 3378. Branford CT
06405 USA

New book, CD-ROM and DVD from:
http://www.CropCircleInfo.com

-----

In a subsequent message Colin wrote:

"I have attached another two photographs from the long sequence
of photos I took that night. I still have the negatives etc=85

It has not been analyzed before.

One of the two shots attached to this e-mail was published in
the local Andover newspaper because during my photographic
mission that night, one of the strokes hit a high voltage cable
(within the photo frame) and put the lights out in the town.
The headline read something like 'What a Cracker'. The actual
shot with the object on has _not_ been published.

I am sorting through a lot of my material and just three days
ago came back to my file with weather photos I had taken. I had
noticed this object a few years ago but long forgot about it
until now. The more I looked at it on this computer, the more
impressed I became and so decided to send it to a few people I
thought would be interested.

Note from Dave Haith. The picture is now at:

http://www.unknowncountry.com/news/?id=3D3510








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               Re: Russia Surpasses Americans In Space Race -

From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy.nul>
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 15:34:25 -0800
Fwd Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 10:36:41 -0500
Subject: Re: Russia Surpasses Americans In Space Race -


>From: Mike Woods <mike.woods.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 11:09:33 -0500
>Subject: Re: Russia Surpasses Americans In Space Race

>>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 09:39:06 -0800
>>Subject: Russia Surpasses Americans In Space Race

>>Source: Pravda

>>http://english.pravda.ru/mailbox/22/98/387/11928_space.html

<snip>

>All I know is, the crank who is pushing this line of crap is
>lucky he waited until Buzz Aldren was in his 70s before acosting
>him. If Buzz had been any younger, that lame would have gotten
>more than just a fat lip from the punch in the mouth Buzz threw.

>This crap distracts us from more important things. Honor the
>human cost of space exploration. Hail Columbia.

Hello, all.

Hmm. I thought it was Lovell who gave him a knuckle sandwich.
Anyway, sort wants to make one place the idiot on the _next_
trip to the Moon - with no LEM.

The Pravda Acrticle was indeed an example of the Weekly World
News. Reminds me of the time my old Airtanker was on the cover
-  as one of these "50's vintage airliner lands full of
Skeletons" - except they forgot to Airbrush out retardant tank,
the fire, the trees. You get the picture.

So to change the subject completely here's a link to a poem by
Heinlien "The Cool Green hills of Earth":

http://www.cs.rice.edu/~ssiyer/minstrels/poems/241.html

To those who did indeed, 'boldly go' Hail Coloumbia!


GT McCoy
Keep the Candle Lit







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                  Nigeria Lists Rumored Plane Crash As UFO

From: Kenny Young <ufo.nul>
Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 17:01:22 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 10:38:37 -0500
Subject: Nigeria Lists Rumored Plane Crash As UFO


Source: Reuters

http://www.reuters.com/locales/newsArticle.jsp;:401d3623:f772cd224219f649?type=w
orldNews&locale=en_IN&storyID=4256978

01 Feb 2004 17:12

Was It A Plane? Nigerian Rescuers Wonder

LAGOS (Reuters) - Rescue workers in Nigeria have found no trace
of a light aircraft that witnesses reported seeing crash into
the ocean on Friday and now doubt whether there was a plane at
all, officials said on Sunday.

Search operations were halted after local rescue workers and the
South Africa-based Critical Rescue International searched in
vain under the waves on Saturday for bodies and wreckage.

"We are tired of looking at water. We are now convinced that
there was no plane crash," Emmanuel Ijewere, president of the
Nigerian Red Cross told Reuters.

Witnesses said on Friday that they saw a small plane wobble in
the air for several minutes, before smashing into the ocean
where it submerged completely.

But Nigeria's Aviation Ministry said that after conducting a
series of checks with relevant bodies, it still had no lead on
the reported crash. Air traffic controllers in Lagos had no
knowledge of the plane's presence at the time of the crash.

The country's aviation watchdog, the Nigeria Aviation Safety
Initiative (NASI), said on Sunday the crashed object had been
classified as an Unidentified Flying Object (UFO).

Captain Jerry Agbeyegbe, executive director of NASI, urged the
government to intensify the search with more sophisticated
equipment to determine the veracity of the witnesses' claims.

"Certainly an object was sighted crashing into the ocean, we
have termed it for now as a UFO," Agbeyegbe told Reuters.

"We have advised government to intensify (the) search until we
are absolutely sure that it was not a plane."

Industry experts have blamed the mystery on the deplorable state
of aviation in the world's seventh largest oil exporter.

Nigeria's worst air crash in the past 20 years occurred in
November 1996, when a Boeing 727 flying from Port Harcourt to
Lagos crashed, killing all 142 passengers and nine crew.

In May 2002, a BAC 1-11-500 operated by EAS Airlines crashed in
the northern city of Kano, killing more than 100 people on board
an on the ground.





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                Mexican Aviation Techs Claim Having Seen UFO

From: Scott Corrales <lornis1.nul>
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 18:57:27 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 11:57:34 -0500
Subject: Mexican Aviation Techs Claim Having Seen UFO


Source: AFP
Date: January 31, 2004

Mexican Aviation Technicians Claim Having Seen UFO

MEXICO, Ene 31 (AFP) - Two Mexican aviation technicians claimed
having recorded eight unidentified flying objects (UFOs) with a
camcorder as the objects flew over the capital city on Saturday
afternoon.

Aviation and photography technicians Alfonso Salazar and
Salvador Guerrero told the press that they saw the mysterious
objects when they flew over Mexico City's International Airport
(AICM).

Salazar and Guerrero said that they managed to film the event
from the hangar area of the terminal using their camcorder.

The technicians explained that the events occurred in three
separate occasion, involving a difference of three hours and 15
minutes.

The first event, recorded at 13:20 local time (19H20 GMT),
involved six flying objects that formed an inverted "J" shape.
Subsequently, at 22H00GMT, they claimed having seen a tubular
shape and at 22H55 GMT they recorded a spherical UFO.

"We were in the hangar area and suddenly saw the first sixt UFOs
in the sky, and we recorded until the last one appeared (...).
The speed they used to disappear was immediate, and more or less
all of them were at an altitude of 12,00 feet," added the techs.

Airport spokesman Jose Luis Uribe downplayed the alleged UFO
sightings, noting that "normally these sightings come about
through a separations of rays of visible light [whiche make
people] see unexplained phenomena."

Air traffic controlers and other pilots consulted by AFP at the
airport stated that on certain occasions "unidentified flying
objects are seen in the sky" and that these cannot be picked up
by radar.

For further information:

http://www.mipunto.com/punto_noticias/noticia_entretenimiento.jsp?tipo=CURIOSIDA
DES&archivo=040201021717.icjrnsl2.txt


=======================================================
Translation (C) 2004 Scott Corrales IHU
Special thanks to Gloria Coluchi






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                     Re: New European UFO Survey - Burns

From: Max Burns <max.burns.nul>
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 00:31:43 -0000
Fwd Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 12:35:26 -0500
Subject: Re: New European UFO Survey - Burns


>From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 17:47:47 +0100
>Subject: Re: New European UFO Survey

>>From: Joe McGonagle <joe.mcgonagle.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 16:22:38 -0000
>>Subject: Re: New European UFO Survey
>
>>>From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg.nul>
>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 18:40:54 -0600
>>>Subject: New European UFO Survey

>>>New European Science group:- EUS European UFO Survey

>><snip>

>>>http://www.europeanufosurvey.com/

>>>This is just newly on line, I'm told, and fairly simple at the
>>>moment. It is available in four languages. The scuttlebutt is
>>>that the members are very well connected... Does anyone have any
>>>additional details?

>>The domain is registered to a Gregory Pillet with an address in
>>Paris (France). Perhaps one of our French subscribers can
>>provide more information?

>Hello,

>I just know that this site in under construction.

>The announcement was premature.

>Please, just wait and see.


Dear Listers,

The mission statement and portfolio of this group looks
impressive. I certainly hope that this group can recieve support
from ufology as they make themselves known. Also, what they hope
to achieve with this collaboration across a broad spectram of
academia.

I am sure the group will keep us all informed as they move into
the full launch over the coming months.

I welcome the European UFO survey to our global ufological
family:

http://www.europeanufosurvey.com/


Max








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                  Re: UFO ROUNDUP Mystery Van, V9 #4 - Hatc

From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 16:30:47 -0800
Fwd Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 16:00:13 -0500
Subject: Re: UFO ROUNDUP Mystery Van, V9 #4 - Hatc


>From: John Hayes <webmaster.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 17:10:05 +0000
>Subject: Re: UFO ROUNDUP Volume 9, Number 4

>>From: Steven L. Wilson Sr <Ndunlks.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 23:29:59 EST
>>Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 9, Number 4

>>UFO ROUNDUP
>>Volume 9, Number 4
>>January 28, 2004
>>Editor: Joseph Trainor

><snip>

>>ROUNDUP MYSTERY VAN CAUGHT ON FILM

>Anyone wishing to see the image of the van it is now on the
>website with the bulletin at:

>http://www.ufoinfo.com/roundup/v09/rnd0904.shtml

>My thanks to Steven for getting the bulletin out to the List
>(Just like old times Steven <g>). My computer stopped working
>last Tuesday and I have been forced to check my mail either at
>work or on another person's computer. It will be a few weeks
>before I can get things sorted out and site updates might be
>delayed until then.


Hello John, Joseph ..

How very strange!

Lets say its a fairly wealthy but eccentric fellow out to catch
UFOs single-handedly.

If that has any merit, why would he choose to indicate USAF
lettering on the door of the van? Did he perhaps buy a used USAF
van and neglect to cover up the designation?

I would think the military would blank out any such indications
before selling the van, much like police departments do when
they sell their old cruisers.

Then there's the "UFO Roundup" sign. Coincidence? Our supposed
eccentric would have to know its highly misleading. Everyone
knows about Filers Files and UFO Roundup, especially anyone on
the hunt for supposed hotspots.

An interview with the white haired driver should
be highly interesting indeed, if he can be tracked
down that is.


Best

- Larry Hatch








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                Re: Reporter Claims UFO Over Home Of UK Tory

From: Max Burns <max.burns.nul>
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 00:36:11 -0000
Fwd Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 16:02:02 -0500
Subject: Re: Reporter Claims UFO Over Home Of UK Tory


>From: Stuart Miller <Stuart.Miller4.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 11:26:54 -0000
>Subject: Re: Reporter Claims UFO Over Home Of UK Tory Leader

<snip>

>I went along to see my MP, Graham Brady, about the Burmarsh
>incident, this morning. If you recall, he is also Howard's PPS.

>He seemed delighted I walked in, partly to relieve the tedium of
>a Saturday morning surgery but also because he sees the story as
>an opportunity to wind Mr. Howard up! I'm serious, he seemed to
>see acres of mileage in this to tease his boss.

>My approach has, he acknowledged, caused him some discomfort
>because of his relationship with Howard, but he thought the best
>approach was for him to ask Howard directly.

>He said, "You know what will happen if I write to the MOD.
>They'll deny any incident took place." He didn't feel it was
>appropriate to ask a question in the House but his companion,
>Stephanie Pool, a local councillor who presumably was acting as
>his secretary, noticed from the article on the event that I
>brought in that the matter had been raised in the European
>parliament. This seemed to impress her.

>I am delighted with the result. I think the approach Brady is
>going to take is the best option likely to produce an answer.
>Such was his enthusiasm that I felt I had to caution him not to
>"lunge" at Howard too aggressively with it as the story has
>obviously irritated him over the years.

>Do I expect an informative answer? No. But you never know.


Stuart, thanks for the update, no pun intended, hey guy,
sometimes there is more in what is not said with the
polititians.

Please keep the List informed of future developments

Max









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             Re: Has A UFO Ever Killed A Diesel Engine? - Hatch

From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 17:16:55 -0800
Fwd Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 16:03:54 -0500
Subject: Re: Has A UFO Ever Killed A Diesel Engine? - Hatch


>From: Greg St. Pierre <Gregstpie.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 14:28:07 EST
>Subject: Re: Has A UFO Ever Killed A Diesel Engine?

>>From: Eleanor White <eleanor.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 08:16:33 -0500
>>Subject: Has A UFO Ever Killed A Diesel Engine?

>>Have UFOs ever been reported to kill a diesel engine?

> >Eleanor White

>As an automotive technician, I believe I can offer some insight
>into the diesel engine question.

>For those who don't understand the difference between a gas engine
>and a diesel engine, here it is in a nutshell:

>In a gas engine (and sticking to modern designs), the fuel is
>sprayed into the combustion chambers by electromagnetic fuel
>injectors, which are opened and closed by the vehicle's
>computer. The fuel going into the injectors is pressurized by an
>electrical fuel pump, which is also enabled or disabled by the
>computer. The gas is ignited by the ignition system, which is
>composed of spark plugs, plug wires, in some cases a
>distributor, a coil or series of coils, and the computer. Any
>one of these components could be disabled by a strong EM field.
>The computer is particularly vulnerable, having many ROM and RAM
>chips, and delicate driver (switching) circuits.

>In a diesel system we find some of the same components. A fuel
>pump, fuel injectors, and a computer. The main difference is
>found with the lack of an ignition system. In a diesel engine,
>the fuel-air mixture is ignited by being highly compressed (and
>therefore heated) by the pistons. Some of these systems have
>mechanically operated fuel injectors, which would not be prone
>to EM field interruption. Some older designs have mechanical
>fuel pumps, also not vulnerable. Any diesel systems with
>electrical versions of the above could be candidates for a scary
>encounter.

>I feel most diesel engines in use today could theoretically be
>disabled by a strong EM field. The small number of cases
>available may be more of a factor of the ratio of gas/diesel
>engines on the road than the susceptibility of diesel engines.


Hello Greg, Eleanor:

Here are some database listings of diesel engine effects or
lack of same during UFO sightings:

"EME" stands for Electro Magnetic Effects, which in this
context simply means an engine conked out (or not.)


#4433: 1954/11/10 20:30h d=60m 11:50E 44:36N WEU ITL FE.
TRAVERSONE,ITL:RED BEAM/LO ALT SWEEPS 2 TRACTORS:
GAS ENGINE EMEs diesel not!
Ref# 39 ITACAT: Maurizio Verga CISU/Italy Pg.45 FARMLANDS

#7349: 1965/08/04 01:30h dm 97:13W 38:32N NAM USA KNS
S/ABILENE,KS:TRUCK LITES EME:DIESEL ENG.AOK:
15'DOMED SCR W/WINDOWS>SW:/r41p206
Ref# 210 The APRO BULLETIN. Year 65 Month 11 FARMLANDS

Note that in Kansas 1965, the truck lites died but the
engine kept on running.

#9204: 1968/12/16 18:00h d=15m 134:45W 58:07N NAM USA ALS
HAWK INLET,AK:2 OBS:SLNT GLOW-BALL BACK:CCLS CANNERY:HVRS over BOAT:
DIESEL EME+RFI i.e. Diesel engine quits, plus Radio Interference.
Ref# 210 The APRO BULLETIN. Year 69 Month 5 COASTLANDS

#10320: 1972/12/31 23:30h d=2m 06:24W 37:17N WEU SPN SVL
HINOJOS,SP:4 OBS:SQR FBL LITES AREA:LITES OUT in 2 CARS:
GAS ENGINE EMES : DIESEL OK (i.e. diesel engine keeps running ..)
Ref# 194 LUMIERES dans la NUIT.(LDLN France) Issue No. 133

#10416: 1973/03/25 23:00h d=2m 00:41E 44:25N WEU FRN L&G
VILLENUEVE-sur-LOT,FR:BLAZING OVOID/ROAD:DIESEL EMEs:
DRIVER FROZEN:/LDLN#189
Ref# 193 PHENOMENA SPATIAUX Quarterly, Paris Issue #40 ROAD+RAILS

#10807: 1973/10/19 19:00h d=5m 03:55E 50:13N WEU FRN NRD
LIMONT-FONTAINE,FR:2 OBS:DIESEL EMEs:15M SCR >NE:
20+BEAMS in ALL DIRs:/r30p416
Ref# 194 LUMIERES dans la NUIT. Issue No. 134 FARMLANDS

#11687: 1975/03/?? 00:30h d=5m 00:43E 44:18N WEU FRN L&G
NNE/AGEN,FR:GLO-DOME BUZZES 1/CAR:DIESEL+LITES+RDO EME:
OBS suddenly passive!
Here the diesel engine, car lites and radio all quit.
Ref# 194 LUMIERES dans la NUIT. Issue No. 178 ROAD+RAILS

#12268: 1976/06/15? 23:00? d=120m 02:35E 50:48N WEU FRN NRD
STEENVOORDE,FR:1/DIESEL TRUCK/EMEs:30M BHND WINDMILL:
2 hrs/MST:/FSR v38#2 Diesel engine quits .. missing time ..
Ref# 194 LUMIERES dans la NUIT. Issue No. 305 ROAD+RAILS

#12925: 1977/11?/?? 22:30h dm 39:20W 07:10S SAM BRZ CEA
NE/CRATO,BRZL:4 OBS:BLU-GLOW DISK FOLOS RR TRAIN:
DIESEL ENGINE SLOWS : UFO fires beams/lite
Ref# 105 PRATT,Bob: UFO DANGER ZONE: Page No. 227 ROAD+RAILS

#13026: 1978/02/?? 00:00h d=5m 05:32W 37:25N WEU SPN SVL
N339 NW/MARCHENA,SP:SLNT RED SPHERE ^/ROAD:DIESEL TRUCK EMEs:
2 in TRUCK PASS OUT
Ref# 194 LUMIERES dans la NUIT. Issue No. 181 ROAD+RAILS

#14484: 1983/03/10 03:00? d=15m 68:10W 16:37S SAM BLV ORU
VENTILLA,BOLIVIA:70 OBS:SCR ZAPS TRAIN:DIESEL ENGINE STALLS:
RESTARTS itself!:/MJ#203
Ref# 63 NATIONAL ENQUIRER UFO REPORT (1985) Pg.188 ROAD+RAILS

So... its a mixed bag of results. Often as not, the diesel
engine kept running, even when a gas engine quit at the same
time. Then, in association with stranger effects, even a diesel
engine will slow or stall entirely. An engine that "starts
itself" afterward really has me pulling my beard.

This leads me to ask whether these effects are side-effects of
UFO technology, propulsion or whatever, or whether they are
deliberately introduced for some other purpose.


Best wishes

- Larry Hatch











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                      Scientists "We're All From Mars"

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 16:09:30 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 16:09:30 -0500
Subject: Scientists "We're All From Mars"




Source: Australian IT

http://australianit.news.com.au/articles/0,7204,8533660%5E15322%5E%5Enbv%5E,00.h
tml

January 30, 2004


Scientists "We're All From Mars"

Graeme Webber

The Martians are not coming - they've probably already arrived
on earth. And we could be their descendants.

Two Australian scientists have developed new technology to
confirm claims by NASA that a meteorite from Mars found in
Antarctica in 1984 contained microscopic fossils from the red
planet.

Scientists have fiercely debated whether the ancient,
microscopic compounds were deposited by ancient bacteria or
natural chemical reactions - and whether such bacteria was
Martian or moved in after the meteorite fell to earth.

But biophysicist Dr Tony Taylor from the Australian Nuclear
Science and Technology Organisation (ANSTO) in Sydney and the
University of Queensland's Professor John Barry devised a new
technique which they say affirms the Martian microbe theory
"beyond reasonable doubt".

Dr Taylor said the research raised intriguing questions about
the origins of life on Mars and its planetary neighbour, Earth,
and whether meteorites could have seeded living organisms
through space.

Dr Taylor said the ancient fossil fragments were dated to 3.95
billion years old.

The meteorite was found on top of the polar ice, but Dr Taylor
said the bacteria could not have formed on earth in such sub-
zero temperatures.

"The carbonate (residue from bacteria) and obviously all of the
materials of the fossils inside it were all formed on Mars and
definitely could not have been produced here on Earth," Dr
Taylor said.

"The fossils pre-date any fossil evidence of life on this
planet.

"So it demonstrates quite clearly that there was life on Mars
before there was life on Earth.

"And with this fossil record that we've got now, it indicates
that life probably came from Mars."

The findings were published in the latest edition of the Journal
of Microscopy.

Using an electron microscope and ultra violet light, the
Australian researchers compared meteorite ALH84001 with bacteria
fossils produced on Earth and matched all 11 features of their
biosignatures.

"It's more conclusive than finding a T-rex skeleton," Dr Taylor
said.

Dr Taylor said bacteria could easily hitch a ride through the
solar system when asteroids blasted rocks off planets into
space.

"A simple life form could very easily survive the ejection
process," Dr Taylor said.

"So inside the rock, protected from gamma rays, freeze-dried;
indefinitely-preserved life is not only possible, it's probable.

"The conditions experienced on re-entry are not enough to kill
life forms, so it is accepted as being highly probable that life
could transmit from one planet to another."

But Dr Taylor's research partner was more cautious about
speculating what the discovery could mean for the origins of
life.

"That particular fossil that came was just a fossil, it wasn't
living matter," Prof Barry said.

"But whether all Earth life came from Mars or whether life on
Earth developed independently is another question.

"If it (life) came from Mars then we're all descendants of
Martians - we're Martians - it's kind of a sexy idea, but I
don't know."

Prof Barry, a physicist who supervised Dr Taylor in the project,
said the Mars rock inspired the quest to land robotic rover
probes on the planet this month to eke out geological signs of
life.

"People would like to know whether there's life outside of Earth
and this adds extra evidence that supports that idea," Prof
Barry said.

Emeritus Professor Imre Friedmann, now at NASA Ames Research
Center in California, was thrilled by the latest research which
confirmed the space agency's earlier findings.

"The study of Taylor and Barry now presents evidence that the
same features occur in a wide range of bacteria that live on
Earth today," Prof Friedmann said.

"The tiny structures, chains of crystals of the mineral
magnetite, are comparable to animal skeletons on a microscopic
scale."

Another name that appears in the research paper is Tamarind, Dr
Taylor's dingo-cross pet dog which helped sniff out the right
bacteria during a field trip.

"She knows what the word 'stinky' means so I told her to go and
find 'stinky mud' and she did exactly that," Dr Taylor said.

"She came back covered in putrid, foul mud and low and behold in
the mud that she had found, I found great specimens of these
bacteria."

AAP

[UFO UpDates thanks Robert Barrow for the lead]








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              Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Hebert

From: Amy Hebert <vanguard.nul>
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 21:54:27 -0600
Fwd Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 16:10:59 -0500
Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Hebert


>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 15:15:10 -0500
>Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph

>>From: Amy Hebert <vanguard.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 07:46:47 -0600
>>Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph

>Hello Amy, All,

>Here we go again....you wrote:

>>Although I see no evidence the photograph in question has been
>>faked, I did find various inconsistencies in your example.

>Let me see if I get this straight, you don't see any evidence of
>fakery in the Whittlesea photo but _I_ am faking my
>illustrations. Am I reading you correctly?

No, inconsistencies between the location of the light source in
an illustration and the location of the light source (and
resulting shadows) in the original image is not "faking" it,
it's just not paying attention to detail or ignoring it.

>I'm not even going to dignify that lame accusation with a
>response. I will however accept your 'amateur' opinion (for what
>it's worth) that you don't find any evidence of fakery in the
>Whittlesea photo.

Put your evidence where your claims are, John. Show me where the
sun was in your illustration compared to the location of the sun
in the Whittlesea UFO photograph and where it would have been at
approximately 2:00pm on the day the photograph was taken.

>>In reproducing your 3D model of the Whittlesea UFO using my own
>>Bryce 5 (I use Bryce 5, Poser, Adobe, Paint Shop Pro 8 and
>>numerous other programs to create 3D graphics for my research
>>and the book I am writing),

>Wow! Writing a 'book' eh? I'll bet getting some attention so
>people will want to read it is an important activity eh?

Since the book I am writing has nothing to do with the topic at
hand, this conversation is actually more of a distraction than a
bid for attention eh?

>BTW, I'm impressed with all the software you own. I have 'oodles
>of software too.' I spent two years of my life (full-time) in
>computer labs at Long Island University learning how to use it
>all. Where did you go to learn to use yours?

Oh, I just read the book and tutorials (they come with the
software these days). I spent my time (6 years) at the
university earning two degrees and learning scientific
methodology. Not that two years in a computer lab isn't worth
something. It's just not enough to get your foot in the door.

>>I discovered, quite by accident,
>>that the sun could not have been in the position you claim it
>>was in.

>That must have been some accident, Amy. Without having seen the
>mesh from my original to know precisely 'where' in the 3D
>space/environment I placed the object I created and the light
>source in the scene, you have determined that the sun was not in
>the position I "claim" it was in.

>And you were able to determine that by randomly placing objects
>'in your 3D space and assuming that it is identical to where I
>placed mine. You missed your calling; ufology is a waste of your
>talents, should be working for the psychic hotline!

Thank you, John!

However, nothing psychic about what I did. I simply put your
claims to the test by attempting to replicate the procedures you
described to see if I could achieve the same results (scientists
do this all the time to test various theories and claims made by
others).

Unfortunately, the experiment I conducted did not produce the
same results as outlined by your procedures. Furthermore, my
analysis of the Whittlesea UFO photograph indicates the sun was
above, to the right and _behind_ the objects in the foreground
not above, to the right and _in front_ or just over and behind
the photographer's right shoulder as you claim.

In order for the sun to be in the position reflected by your
model of the "domed disc", it would have had to have been much
lower in the sky than it was at 2:00pm and in front of your
"flying saucer" - which does not correlate with the position of
the sun in the Whittlesea UFO photograph. Your rendition of the
'classic' flying saucer you see in the Whittlesea photo is not
accurate regardless of 'where' you placed your mesh or any other
objects in your 3D "space/environment" simply because you cannot
have the sun reflecting off the front of the object (UFO) and
behind the objects in the foreground at the same time.

It does not take a rocket scientist or a Bryce 'expert' to see
that the reflection of the sun on your "domed disc" is not
consistent with the shadows and position of the sun in the
Whittlesea UFO photograph.

<snip>

>>We will probably never know what the Whittlesea UFO really was.

>Sadly, no, we will probably never know the truth about the
>Whittlesea photo. Thanks to *amateurs with an Internet soapbox
>we can all look forward to having ever more obstacles to
>overcome.

Don't be so hard on yourself, John. ;>

>When this List first started it was closed to all save people
>who had a 'legitimate' connection to the phenomenon. ie;
>research people, investigators, their witnesses etc. Don't get
>me wrong, I love the richness that the influx of voices, ideas,
>and theories that manifested when EBK opened the List to the
>public. It's just that in order to gain the benefits of an 'open
>List', the price paid was an increase in static noise from
>'armchair' amateurs with Internet access, some software, a book
>to sell, a website to promote and two cents worth of very
>personal theories and opinions.

>So far the diversity gained has been worth the price. I just
>pine for the old days from time to time is all. ;)

Me, too, John, me too. But diversity is, afterall, the spice of life. ;}

Thank you, Errol, for knowing what's best for the List and for
providing this wonderful forum!

Sincerely,

A. Hebert








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               Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Velez

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 23:50:26 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 16:12:10 -0500
Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Velez


>From: Michael Christol <spachopr.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 12:23:41 -0600
>Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph

>>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
>>Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 22:57:32 -0500
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph

>I looked at your rendition of what you think the object
>looks like. Not bad......

>Might I suggest you tilt the front edge of your object down so
>the angles of the two objects match up better. This way we will
>get a better idea of how close your idea fits.


Hi Mike,

The 'purpose' for creating the 3D model was more to satisfy my
own curiosity about how closely my 'perception' of what is there
would match (or not) the object in the photo.

I wasn't trying to 'prove' anything or to 'reproduce' the
object. I was trying to reproduce what _I_see_, and then compare
it to the Whittlesea photo. I see a 'domed disc.' The graphics
have no other purpose. Regardless of what others may read into
it.

It is a remarkable visual match though isn't it? I'm glad you
enjoyed the results of my exercise. I thought the similarity was
interesting myself. ;)

Regards,

John Velez








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              Re: Extraterrestrial Edge Helps The Balance Sheet

From: Diana Cammack <cammack.nul>
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 08:53:14 +0200
Fwd Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 16:16:58 -0500
Subject: Re: Extraterrestrial Edge Helps The Balance Sheet


>From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>To: <- UFO - UpDates Subscribers ->
>Date: Thursday, January 22, 2004 1:57 PM
>Subject: UFO UpDate: Extraterrestrial Edge Helps The Balance Sheet

>Source: The Houston Chronicle - Texas

>http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/business/2365195

>Jan. 21, 2004

>Extraterrestrial edge helps the balance sheet
>By A. Craig Copetas
>Bloomberg News

>A galactic mystery hovers over the World Economic Forum meeting
>in Davos, Switzerland: How many of the 2,280 global leaders,
>including 31 heads of state, gathered in this Alpine resort
>conduct business with extraterrestrials?

>This is no whimsy for Davosians.

>It's on the agenda of the annual powwow of the influential and
>affluent who will ask forum participants such as Vice President
>Dick Cheney, Coca-Cola Chairman Douglas Daft and De La Rue Chief
>Executive Ian Much if the aliens have landed and are
>collaborating with them to concoct government policy, brew soda
>pop and mint Iraq's new bank notes.

<snip>

List,

Did this seminar or talk ever happen (or was it a joke report)?
And has there been any report of its content or the reaction of
the audience? Do we even know who attended? or spoke?


Diana








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                   Re: UFOs And Coloured Lights? - Shough

From: Martin Shough <mshough.nul>
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 09:33:08 -0000
Fwd Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 16:18:12 -0500
Subject: Re: UFOs And Coloured Lights? - Shough


>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 14:43:20 +0000
>Subject: Re: UFOs And Coloured Lights?

>I have found (UFO
>Evidence, Vol. II; 1966-67 wave study in progress) a correlation
>between color and velocity: Blue-green cooler colors while
>hovering or moving slowly, and red-orange hotter colors during
>acceleration.

>Similarly, brightness (luminosity) apparently is correlated with
>acceleration even when the basic color is white. This is a very
>interesting area of study for someone to focus on.

Hi Dick, all (apologies for delayed post, apparently due to net
gremlins)

I looked at this question very informally in my early catalogue
of about 100 re-examined radar cases (currently transmogrifying
into part of a much larger RADCAT under the wing of Jan Aldrich
& co. at Project 1947). You might be interested in the result.

Setting aside 64 cases categorised as "known" (very few) or
"poor insufficient information" (by far the largest category),
in the categories of "good insufficient information" or
"unknown" there were 29 cases with estimates of speed which
could be said to be supported in some degree by radar
measurement. (The subjectivity of these distinctions doesn't
need to be emphasised. No case has anything like complete
information of course.)

The mean speed of 15 "unknowns" was about1300 knots. The mean of
29 "good insufficient information" plus "unknown" was 1400
knots. Both categories ranged between zero and >3000 knots. 9
cases involved apparently solid objects bearing lamp-like white
or multi-coloured lights or no lights at all. The mean speed in
these cases was ~1000 knots. Removing these cases leaves 20
cases of apparently self-luminous objects whose spectral
classification against mean speed breaks down as follows:

R/O         ~ 1700 kt (9 cases)
Y                -
G                -
B             ~ 1300kt (4 cases)
I                 -
V                -
White       ~ 1200kt (7 cases)

It goes without saying that there is a great deal of uncertainty
and this is a tiny sample. The figures are of no value for
statistical purposes. But they do mirror the trend you speak of.
A larger study of RADCAT in due course might be able to test for
a significant correlation.

Two points: 1) The proportion of solid object-type radar
"unknowns" seems surprising, but maybe just reflects the
criteria employed to define an "unknown"; 2) Although red light
can be described as "hotter" than blue it is associated with
longer wavelength less-energetic radiation and so is in fact
"cooler". If the correlation is in the direction indicated then
this is possibly counterintuitive.


Regards

Martin Shough








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             Re: Review Of 'Sight Unseen' By Hopkins & Rainey -

From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais.nul>
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 15:42:28 +0100
Fwd Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 16:19:55 -0500
Subject: Re: Review Of 'Sight Unseen' By Hopkins & Rainey -


>From: Luis R. Gonzalez <lrgm.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 12:22:18 +0100
>Subject: Re: Review Of 'Sight Unseen' By Hopkins & Rainey

>The recent spate of laudatory comments about Sight Unseen has
>prompted me to put it at the top of my reading list. I got it
>last Christmas, read the dust covers, leafed through it, and put
>it back behind some other titles like Howe's Glimpses... (I
>finally decided to get them after the recent debate about that
>alleged Brazilian abduction's photos). But I disgress.....

>Those who have read my posts here would suspect (rightly) that
>my opinion about Sight Unseen is not as positive. Nevertheless,
>I will give you a detailed review when I finish it... if you are
>interested in my humble opinion, of course.

>But, taking advantage of Katharina Wilson's presence, I would
>like to learn more about her "airport incident".

<snip>

>The important point here is not if aliens really exist and use
>(or not) a recognizable technology. The real point is that Carol
>did not do her homework properly and _her_ extrapolations have
>no logic. After a succinct glance, the same can be said about her
>other proposals in the book. This is why I do not consider this
>book valuable in advancing a scientific Ufology.


To Luis and all,

Thank you for your critique, on the tentative explanations
proposed by Carol Rainey. You may be right, and her exercise may
be a bit short.

In turn, I don't understand clearly you critic on the supposed
invisibility of Katharina. You say that other people should have
bumped into her, but she explains that she could see them, so
she could avoid them. I don't understand either your critic of
the missing time : people waited for her one hour and so it is a
well established fact. The other troubling time problem is that
she apparently crossed the O'Hare airport in no time. That's
another problem on its own !

However, I have a more general remark on you post. The merit of
that book, it seems to me, is that it dares present and discuss
"high strangeness" cases. Until now, such cases were treated by
authors with a more esoteric approach, such as John Keel, or
authors with a more cultural and skeptical viewpoint. The
originality of this book is to try a more rational approach on
such cases. It is a risky game, and Carol Rainey and Budd admit
it. At the end of the chapter "Behind the scenery", in which
Carol Rainey talks about quantum physics, non locality and the
like, she concludes : "It's also possible that not one of those
scientific constructs comes close to explaining  the source of
what our witnesses saw and experienced".

It is going to be easy to demolish the book, if you want to. But
I feel that it goes in the right direction. To be sure, there is
still a long way to go!


Gildas Bourdais






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                Rescuers Doubt Nigerian 'Crash' Plane Existed

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 07:16:56 -0800
Fwd Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 16:21:08 -0500
Subject: Rescuers Doubt Nigerian 'Crash' Plane Existed


Source: Airwise News

http://news.airwise.com/stories/2004/02/1075715154.html

Rescuers Doubt Nigerian "Crash" Plane Existed

February 2, 2004

Rescue workers in Nigeria have found no trace of a light
aircraft that witnesses reported seeing crash into the ocean on
Friday and now doubt whether there was a plane at all, officials
said.

Search operations were halted after local rescue workers and the
South Africa-based Critical Rescue International searched in
vain under the waves on Saturday for bodies and wreckage.

"We are tired of looking at water. We are now convinced that
there was no plane crash," Emmanuel Ijewere, president of the
Nigerian Red Cross said.

Witnesses said on Friday that they saw a small plane wobble in
the air for several minutes, before crashing into the ocean
where it submerged completely.

But Nigeria's Aviation Ministry said that after conducting a
series of checks with relevant bodies, it still had no lead on
the reported crash. Air traffic controllers in Lagos had no
knowledge of the plane's presence at the time of the crash.

The country's aviation watchdog, the Nigeria Aviation Safety
Initiative (NASI), said on Sunday the crashed object had been
classified as an Unidentified Flying Object (UFO).

Captain Jerry Agbeyegbe, executive director of NASI, urged the
government to intensify the search with more sophisticated
equipment to determine the veracity of the witnesses' claims.

"Certainly an object was sighted crashing into the ocean, we
have termed it for now as a UFO," Agbeyegbe said. "We have
advised government to intensify (the) search until we are
absolutely sure that it was not a plane."

Industry experts have blamed the mystery on the deplorable state
of aviation in the world's seventh largest oil exporter.

Nigeria's worst air crash in the past 20 years occurred in
November 1996, when a Boeing 727 flying from Port Harcourt to
Lagos crashed, killing all 142 passengers and nine crew.

In May 2002, a BAC 1-11-500 operated by EAS Airlines crashed in
the northern city of Kano, killing more than 100 people on board
an on the ground.










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                              Hello Earthlings!

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 07:27:10 -0800
Fwd Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 16:24:59 -0500
Subject: Hello Earthlings!



Source: Tucson Citizen

http://www.tucsoncitizen.com/index.php?page=living&story_id=013104d1_martians

January 31, 2004


Hello Earthlings!

With the space probes Opportunity and Spirit sending back images
of Mars, we can't help but hope they capture a picture of a
Martian peering back at us.

"Where are the Martians?"

You know that's what people are asking, even as they feel so
scientifically correct while staring with straight faces into
their computer screens, visually dissecting NASA's crisply
focused digital photos of a flat, rocky plain on Mars.

While all those announcer-scientists on TV explain that life on
Mars - if it exists at all - will just be microbes or something,
we keep hoping for more. Sure we don't expect to see Marvin the
Martian, or even Uncle Martin from "My Favorite Martian." But
... something.

Since late in the 19th century writers and artists and
filmmakers have worked at convincing us there is life on Mars.
They have described, portrayed and analyzed all sorts of more or
less human-sized creatures who live on the red planet. More than
a century of depictions provided so much lifelike detail it
becomes downright disappointing to see the photographs, which
the space probes Opportunity and Spirit keep sending back.

Just like Peggy Lee, we sigh, "Is that all there is?"

"We know where life is on Mars, but they don't land where life
is," says gruff, straight-talking ret. U.S. Air Force Col.
Wendelle Stevens, the founder of the UFO World Center and the
author or co-author of more than 18 books on extensive UFO
contact cases.

Because of experiences he had in uniform, Stevens has dedicated
his post-military life to investigating the unexplained in
space. As proof Martian life does exist, he hands over printouts
of Mars satellite photographs of trees, standing water, running
water and gigantic wormlike shapes he has identified on Mars'
surface.

The original photographs come from NASA's own cameras, displayed
online depicting what does, indeed, look like long-range views
of trees, bushes, standing water and running water. The worm-
shapes aren't that convincing, but check out all the photos
yourself at Stevens' Web site www.marsanomalyresearch.com.

Today's digital pictures are just the latest in a line of
descriptions that began with H. G. Wells' classic novel, "The
War of the Worlds," first published in 1897. Even Wells was
preceded by the Italian astronomer Giovanni Schiaparelli, who in
1877 first described "canali," properly translated as
"channels," that he imagined he saw through his telescope. With
the 1869 engineering triumph of the Suez Canal fresh in
everyone's minds, "canali" proved there was intelligent life on
Mars. It looked like people up there had been digging canals
just like down here on Earth.

Around that time Darwin's controversial theory of evolution was
just beginning to challenge the biblical theory of creation. The
Industrial Revolution was turning clever workers into wealthy
capitalists, as well. Wells combined these concepts in the
chilling vision that the Martians were technologically superior
invaders whose strength - using science to defeat disease -
 became the Martian invaders' weakness - having no immune system
to fight off Earth's disease.

History helped "The War of the Worlds" become still more
influential as the horrors of World War I were easily transposed
to Wells' book and the work of early 20th century fantacists
such as Edgar Rice Burroughs, who first wrote of the "green men
of Mars."

Why green? Historians didn't question Burroughs on that point
but, ever since, green has been universally accepted as the most
popular color for aliens - Martians or otherwise.

Marvin the Martian actually wore a brown uniform when he first
appeared onscreen. That was in Chuck Jones' "Haredevil Hare," in
1948. At that time Marvin was known only by his official name,
Commander X-23, when he tangled with Bugs Bunny. Only later we
learned his off-duty name was Marvin.

By 1980 in "Duck Dodgers and the Return of the 24 1/2 Century"
Marvin was clad in Martian green. As always, his motivation was
to blow up Earth using the Illudium Q-36 Explosive Space
Modulator powered by Illudium Phosdex from Planet X. So far, the
good guys in the Looney Tunes camp of finely drawn fellows have
managed to keep Earth safe for the rest of us.

Our laughter at such good-natured foolishness is only possible
because we all know Martians with their superior technology are
a world threat.

"My Favorite Martian," both on TV in the 1960s and in the 1999
movie, is a kindlier sort, whether played by Ray Walston in the
syndicated television series or by Christopher Lloyd in the
movie.

With the Cold War at its coldest, audiences welcomed the funny
idea that Martians were more like fumbling suburbanites who
couldn't get their cars fixed because they couldn't get the
right parts. It was reassuring after all those tense films of
the 1950s such as "Invaders from Mars," "The Angry Red Planet,"
"Red Planet Mars," "The Thing" and other threatening aliens like
"The Blob" and "Invasion of the Body Snatchers." One of the most
effective of these frightening visions was the first film
adaptation, in 1953, of "The War of the Worlds."

   "Mars is our mirror. Martians are reflections of ourselves,"
said Charles Scruggs, a professor in the English department at
the University of Arizona. He enjoys looking for the metaphors
in film and literature. At present he teaches students that
films about ancient Rome, such as "Gladiator," are really films
about the United States. Like the gladiator played by Russell
Crowe, the U.S. treasures small town life and fears getting
caught in political ploys by the high court, which would be like
the United States ensnared in world politics today.

Scruggs looks to "The Martian Chronicles" film, adapted from the
1951 collection of stories by Ray Bradbury, which has the
Martians pretending they lead lives just like the small-town
Americans who have arrived uninvited on the planet Mars.

"Even then," Scruggs said, "the Martians were considered
treacherous for pretending they had what was most valued in the
United States - small-town life."

These days Scruggs also likes the concept that Martians reflect
the dark side of ourselves. "We have never been comfortable with
being an imperial power," he explained, "And here we are the
policeman for the world.

"What people in America really want is for everyone else to stay
away."

So is Mars an empty and barren place whose dried out soil holds
only old secrets? Or as the newest photographs from Mars keep
proving to Stevens, is there life thriving on the red planet?

From "The War of the Worlds" we have let the idea of Martians
morph from impersonal invaders with advanced technology - much
as Europe's explorers invaded the New World in the 16th century
- to vicious tyrants determined to force Earthlings into
submission, such as Nazi Germany. Then to secret forces using
their mental powers to dominate us in the 1950s, which became so
frightening it took all the silly 1960s movies such as "Mars
Needs Women" and "Santa Claus Conquers the Martians" to get
relief.

Then came kinder, gentler "ET: the Extra Terrestrial" in 1982
(not really a Martian, but, you know ...). In 1996 Tim Burton
brought us the cartoonish "Mars Attacks!" but then Hollywood
went back to meaner versions such as Brian De Palma's 2000
"Mission to Mars" and "Red Planet," followed in 2001 by "Ghosts
of Mars" from John Carpenter.

Sure it's easy to call all these portrayals of Martians
"nonsense." But why does this planet more than 130 years after
the scientific discovery of canali have a stronger hold on our
imaginations than ever? What about the NASA photographs that
seem to reveal an enormous sculpture of a human face? Are the
shadows on Mars just fooling us? Haven't shadows always fooled
us? If we didn't want a security blanket, would Marvin the
Martian still have so many fans?










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              Re: Michael J. Woods On NASA's Motives - Stanford

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 10:53:49 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 16:29:14 -0500
Subject: Re: Michael J. Woods On NASA's Motives - Stanford


>From: Lan Fleming <lfleming5.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 16:27:19 -0600
>Subject: Re: Michael J. Woods On NASA's Motives

<snip>

Lan said:

>Speaking of different organizations internal to NASA having
>different agendas: I recently read in disbelief that Northwest
>Airlines has admitted sending personal information about their
>passengers to NASA without the passengers knowing about it. It
>almost sounds like a paranoid conspiracy theory, but it
>apparently is a fact that NASA has been involved in what amounts
>to spying on the public in the name of national security. It
>makes me wonder if acronym "NASA" now stands for the National
>Airline Spy Agency. I doubt that whatever NASA group is involved
>in these covert intelligence activities cares much about whether
>or not there's life on Mars - unless the Martians are booking
>flights on Northwest.

Hold on, Lan! Put on your thinking cap for a minute!

It's ironic that you don't name the source in which you read
that. Is that source too unreliable to give it credit in a
public forum? When you quote such a ridiculous claim you should
name the source and let us evaluate it for ourselves.

Don't you realize that what likely happened was a simple
typographic error? What probably was originally meant was,
"...Northwest Airlines has admitted sending personal information
about their passengers to NSA [not NASA] without the passengers
knowing about it. Either an 'A' was accidentally omitted or an
incompetent reporter was writing it and didn't know that there
is a universe of difference between NSA and NASA.

Please give a little deep thought to things before you
unintentionally promote incorrect information. The National
Aeronautics and Space Administration is not involved in such
matters, but NSA (National Security Agency) certainly is
collecting airline passenger information and I, for one, am very
glad they are doing so and hope that all airlines are sharing
passenger information with them.


Ray Stanford








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                        Re: Are UFOs Real? - Lehmberg

From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg.nul>
Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 10:06:05 -0600
Fwd Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 16:30:54 -0500
Subject: Re: Are UFOs Real? - Lehmberg


>From: Stan Friedman <fsphys.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 18:17:26 -0400
>Subject: Re: Are UFOs Real?

>>From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 15:33:59 -0600
>>Subject: Re: Are UFOs Real?

<snip>


>1. It is definitely Mr. McGaha _not_ Dr.

I'll be damned! Did I just suck that up out of my thumb... (?)
...let me check... yes I did, apparently! I can't find a mention
of it, anywhere. I suppose I was just unconsciously adding
quality to his presumed defeat. LOL! My bad.

>2. It was very structured... no back and forth argumentation

That would seem to argue for the ability to quantify and qualify
an easier assessment of what was produced by each side in the
debate, as each is weighed for citations, points invalidated by
the opposition, misstatements made, fallacies used, and
inaccurate information provided. It should be easy to tell who
won, regardless.

>3. No attempt was made to determine a "winner", unfortunately.

I wonder what the hosting university thought a debate is
supposed to accomplish? Be that as it may I'm relieved that I'll
be able to make my own analysis and report on it, here... I'll
be fair as Moses!

>4. The Debate tape will be available from me at:

>POB 958,
>Houlton,
>ME 04730-0958

>US$15.; Canadian
>$20CAD; UK 14 pounds

>For Canadians and Brits send to:

>Stan Friedman
>79 Pembroke
>Crescent
>Fredericton
>NB Canada
>E3B 2V1

>The price includes shipping.


My investment (presuming American standard video), Mr. Friedman,
will shortly be on its way.

Lehmberg.nul

EXPLORE "AlienViewGroup" at its HostPros URL.
http://www.alienview.net


JOHN FORD RESTORATION FUND -- John will be released eventually.
He'll need a tax free cash stake to get on his feet. Let's put
one together for him; the bigger it is -- the more attention
he gets. It could have been you. E-mail for detail.
$450.00 pledged -- $200.00 collected!

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite.
What others see from afar, I leave far behind me."
- Giordano Bruno, scourged by the scabrously specious scurrilous.








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   Feb > Feb 2

             Re: President Names Eight Moon Advisers - Maccabee

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 12:16:40 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 16:32:41 -0500
Subject: Re: President Names Eight Moon Advisers - Maccabee


>From: Steven L. Wilson Sr <Ndunlks.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 11:16:46 EST
>Subject: President Names Eight Moon Advisers

>.c The Associated Press

>01/30/04

>President Names Eight Moon Advisers

>WASHINGTON (AP) - President Bush on Friday named the eight
>people from academia and industry who will join former Air Force
>Secretary Pete Aldridge on a commission charged with figuring
>out how to get humans back to the moon and beyond.

<snip>

>Joining Aldridge, a one-time astronaut trainee and top Pentagon
>official on the commission, are:

>Carly Fiorina, chairman and chief executive of Hewlett-Packard.

>Michael P. Jackson of Virginia.

>Laurie Ann Leshin, a planetary geochemist at Arizona State
>University.

>Retired Air Force Gen. Lester Lyles.

>Paul Spudis, a visiting scientist with the Lunar and Planetary
>Institute in Houston.

>Neil deGrasse Tyson of the Rose Center for Earth and Space at
>the American Museum of Natural History in New York.

>Former Rep. Robert S. Walker, R-Pa.

>Mars scientist Maria Zuber of the Massachusetts Institute of
>Technology.


What? No famous ufologist?
(Perhaps there is a "closet ufologist" among them!)







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             Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Maccabee

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 12:16:49 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 16:34:00 -0500
Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Maccabee


>From: Dan Bright <ufo.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 18:36:09 -0000
>Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph


>>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 11:28:00 -0500
>>Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph

<snip>

>>first, we need to find out some 'knowns'... ie; lens settings,
>>aperture, whether a zoom was used, approximate distances to
>>objects in the photo, etc. etc. etc.

>>Can someone get the raw data from one of the principles,
>>preferably the civil engineer/cameraman himself. Once we get our
>>mitts on that info, getting a good 'guesstimate' on the size,
>>distance and approximate speed of the object is a piece of cake.

>For the benefit of those who don't have access to photoshop or
>something similar, the EXIF data provides the following:

>The camera was: KODAK DC240 ZOOM DIGITAL CAMERA
>Exposure time: 1/250 seconds
>F-stop: 9.5
>Date/time: January 15 2004, 14:52:46
>Shutter Speed: 1/256 seconds
>Aperture Value: 6.5
>Metering Mode: Average
>Focal Length: 10mm
>Pixel X Dimension: 1280
>Pixel Y Dimension: 960

>Not everything, but it's a start.

Amusing to note that the shutter speed (1/256) is shorter than
the exposure time (1/250). Also, what is the "aperture value" of
6.5 mean; the f-stop is given as 9.5.Incidently, with focal
length of 10 mm, then the aperture diameter would be 10mm/9.5 or
a hair bigger than 1 mm.... quite a small aperture.








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               Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Velez

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 12:25:16 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 16:36:25 -0500
Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Velez


>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
>To:  ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 17:40:54 -0400
>Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph

>>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 11:27:24 -0500
>>Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph

>>>From: Amy Hebert <vanguard.nul>
>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 00:06:32 -0600
>>>Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph

>>Go to the following link:

>>http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/ufoupdates/listers/WhatIsee/

<snip>

>I've not seen any reference to the time of day the photo was
>taken.

Howdy Don,

2:52 pm (Oz time) Which means the sun would have been lower in
the sky than some folks are arguing and well past zenith by that
time in the afternoon. I have been accused of 'fudging' the
position of the sun in some illustrations created.

>And like John, I can't see any relationship to a bird or
>bug in this picture. That's too convienient.

Thanks for sharing that observation Don. Because I'm on this
List as an 'abductee' there are a 'few' who are fond of making
it sound like it's a given that all my perceptions are 'askew'
somehow.

>As for blurring
>being caused by the object being close to the lens-humbug. I
>suggest that the blurring is caused by it's speed through the
>air which 1] was not captured at precisely the right shutter
>speed, or 2] the object's passage through the air is
>superheating the air envelope surrounding it or, 3] the object's
>motivating powersource itself is causing the blurring possibly
>through light defraction.

I agree, Don. Amy Hebert claims that she sees something that
resembles a 'flying turd with large wings' in the Whittlesea
photo. Supposedly the blurred image of a fly up close. Yet she
is calling _my_ perceptions into question! Go figure.

>There are several other things in the photo which should be
>noted, though they may or may not be important. The two signal
>lights [fore and background] are out of sync with one another.
>The foreground signal's left light is fading while the right is
>getting brighter. They flash back and forth which in this case
>the camera's shutter froze. The background signal's left light
>has reached it's peak intensity.

Yes, the flashing lights indicate that the photo was taken
either just before a train passed the crossing or just after.
We'd have to interview the cameraman to find out which. But yes,
you are very observant, the warning lights are flashing.

>If this was taken just after high-noon then the light is coming
>from the  photographer's right side and behind him.

Again, I am in full agreement. Don. The picture was snapped at
2:52 pm in the afternoon. Like yourself, I make the Sun's
location to the right and slightly behind the photographer. The
shadows are consistent with that estimation.

>Just observations.

Good ones too! I was starting to feel a little alone out here.
Dave Furlotte is one of the few to has had the moxie to say what
he sees in the Whittlesea photo and damn the torpedoes. Thanks
for speaking up and adding your experienced voice and opinions
to into the mix. I for one really appreciate it.

Of course we'll never really know exactly what it was that was
captured in that photo. I'm just a little tired of some people
using the opportunity to push forward their own personal
theories and agendas at the expense of what may be one of the
most recent and remarkable 'UFO' photos to come along in quite
some time.

And where the devil is Bruce Maccabee? Does anybody know? We
really need him to chime in on this one.


Regards,

John Velez









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               Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Velez

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 13:00:42 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 16:37:51 -0500
Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Velez


>From: Dan Bright <ufo.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 18:36:09 -0000
>Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph

>>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 11:28:00 -0500
>>Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph

><snip>

>>first, we need to find out some 'knowns'... ie; lens settings,
>>aperture, whether a zoom was used, approximate distances to
>>objects in the photo, etc. etc. etc.

>>Can someone get the raw data from one of the principles,
>>preferably the civil engineer/cameraman himself. Once we get our
>>mitts on that info, getting a good 'guesstimate' on the size,
>>distance and approximate speed of the object is a piece of cake.

>For the benefit of those who don't have access to photoshop or
>something similar, the EXIF data provides the following:

>The camera was: KODAK DC240 ZOOM DIGITAL CAMERA
>Exposure time: 1/250 seconds
>F-stop: 9.5
>Date/time: January 15 2004, 14:52:46
>Shutter Speed: 1/256 seconds
>Aperture Value: 6.5
>Metering Mode: Average
>Focal Length: 10mm
>Pixel X Dimension: 1280
>Pixel Y Dimension: 960

>Not everything, but it's a start.


Hi Dan,

Bruce Maccabee where are you?!

We need Bruce to chime in on this one. He's been 'among the
missing' throughout this thread. This stage of the inquiry is
where Bruce can make the most valuable contribution. I'm itching
to find out what the size, distance, and speed estimates will
show. We're stuck debating birds and bugs. According to Amy
Hebert's graphic depiction of what she sees, the object in the
Whittlesea photo is a 'winged' flying turd.

"Mr. Hanky" joins the Air force!

See the graphic, it's amazing! The website is called, 'Reality
Check'. The only thing she fails tell us is; if it is us, or
herself, who needs the 'Reality Check!' Check this thing out, -
 it's a riot! <vbeg>

http://a-realitycheck.com/whittleseaufo/analysis.htm

We need to ascertain the facts and have some basic measurements
made. Then the discussion can 'hopefully' proceed based on a
solid foundation of reliable facts -with real legs.

Let's see if one of these posts brings Bruce out of whatever
cave he's been hiding out in. We need his analytical knowledge
and experience right about now.

Looking forward to learning more and hopefully sooner than
later.

Regards,

John Velez









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                   The Rampaging Virus That's Going Around

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 13:03:14 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 16:40:24 -0500
Subject: The Rampaging Virus That's Going Around


Hi All,

I don't know if this is helpful at all but... it turns out that
a majority of the e-mail being generated and circulated by this
pernicious virus has a limited number of subject line headers!

What that means is; if you take the time to set up filters that
automatically trash any incoming mail with the following
headers, you will eliminate seeing 80 to 90% of the incoming
garbage in your "In" box.

**JUNK**
**JUNK**Test
**JUNK**Hi
**JUNK**HELLO
**JUNK**STATUS
**JUNK**STATUS OF SERVER
**JUNK** Mail Transaction Failed

There are other 'repeating' subject headers that lend themselves
to use for creating filters, do some homework on your own in-box
to find others. The ones I listed above are among the most
frequent repeaters. Create filters using those first. It'll
eliminate a ton of the electronic trash that this most recent
wave has inflicted on many of us. I'm getting virus loaded crap
in here at the rate of about half a dozen an hour. If I don't
empty my mailbox regularly, it'll get full and I won't be able
to receive business or other mail that I need or look forward
to.

Good luck, peeps!

John Velez








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                 Strange Sighting Puzzles Satellite-Watcher

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 10:32:14 -0800
Fwd Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 16:42:34 -0500
Subject: Strange Sighting Puzzles Satellite-Watcher


Source: The Huddersfield Daily - UK

Examinerhttp://ichuddersfield.icnetwork.co.uk/0100news/0100localnews/content_obj
ectid=13906933_method=full_siteid=50060_headline=-Strange-sighting-in-skies-puzz
les-satellite-watcher-name_page.html

Feb 2 2004

Strange Sighting Puzzles Satellite-Watcher

Strange lights have been seen in the sky above Linthwaite.

Alan Robinson, of Reinwood Road, Quarmby, was in his garden at
5.20pm on Monday, January 19, when he saw a bright, round light
in the sky in the distance.

He had been trying to spot a man-made satellite which can be
seen near the Moon at certain times.

Mr Robinson said: "I saw this UFO. It was big and bright and
flying at cruising speed at a very high altitude for about six
seconds.

"There were no navigation lights. I am a plane enthusiast and I
can normally identify aircraft.

"It was just really strange."

Robert Williams, a member of Huddersfield Astronomical and
Philosophical Society, said no-one had spotted the object from
the society's Crosland Hill observatory.

But he said there were several rational explanations for the
sighting.

He said it could be the International Space Station, which is
sometimes visible above Huddersfield.

He said the space station was very bright and moved quickly.

Alternatively, the object could have been a man-made satellite,
said Mr Williams.

There are about 30 man-made satellites which pass over the
Earth, some travelling in groups at an altitude of 200 miles.

There is one particular group of three - in a triangle shape -
 which passes over Huddersfield.

Finally, Mr Williams said the object could have been an `iridium
flare'. These flashes of light, lasting just seconds, occur when
communication satellites catch light from the Sun as they
rotate.

Mr Williams added: "I would imagine that anything anyone sees in
the night sky is not strange or unusual."

He added that anyone keen to study the night sky could come to
the observatory on Blackmoorfoot Road during an open week, which
starts next Monday.










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               Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Velez

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 14:07:17 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 16:43:41 -0500
Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Velez


>From: Michael Christol <spachopr.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 12:23:41 -0600
>Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph

>>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
>>Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 22:57:32 -0500
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph

>I looked at your rendition of what you think the object
>looks like. Not bad......

>Might I suggest you tilt the front edge of your object down so
>the angles of the two objects match up better. This way we will
>get a better idea of how close your idea fits.

Hi Mike,

The 'purpose' for creating the 3D model was to more satisfy my
own curiosity about how closely my 'perception' of what is there
would match (or not) the object in the photo.

I wasn't trying to 'prove' anything or to 'reproduce' the
object. I was trying to reproduce what _I_see_, and then compare
it to the Whittlesea photo. I see a 'domed disc.' The graphics
have no other purpose. Regardless of what others may read into
it.

It is a remarkable visual match though isn't it? I'm glad you
enjoyed the results of my exercise. I thought the similarity was
interesting myself. ;)


Regards,

John Velez








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               Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Velez

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 15:28:24 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 16:46:22 -0500
Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Velez


>From: Mary Chapman <alfie107.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 14:33:37 -0800
>Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph

>>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 15:15:10 -0500
>>Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph

><snip>

>>Sadly, no, we will probably never know the truth about the
>>Whittlesea photo. Thanks to *amateurs with an Internet soapbox
>>we can all look forward to having ever more obstacles to
>>overcome.

>>When this List first started it was closed to all save people
>>who had a 'legitimate' connection to the phenomenon. ie;
>>research people, investigators, their witnesses etc. Don't get
>>me wrong, I love the richness that the influx of voices, ideas,
>>and theories that manifested when EBK opened the List to the
>>public. It's just that in order to gain the benefits of an 'open
>>List', the price paid was an increase in static noise from
>>'armchair' amateurs with Internet access, some software, a book
>>to sell, a website to promote and two cents worth of very
>>personal theories and opinions.

>>So far the diversity gained has been worth the price. I just
>>pine for the old days from time to time is all. ;)

Hi Mary,

You wrote:

>John,

>I completely understand your desire to go back to the old days
>when this List was more private. Honestly I do! But speaking
>from an 'outsider's' or 'public' viewpoint, I want to personally
>thank you and your team for opening it up to us.

It's not "my" team, Mary. The List is Errol Bruce-Knapp's brain
child and one he has labored over long and hard for many years.
Actually, it was Errol's idea to open the List to the public. As
I stated in my post, the diversity and the influx of fresh blood
breathed new life into UFO UpDates. The 'public' List is better
in many ways. What I was hinting at is; as with everything else
in life, you have to give some to get some. The price paid for
opening up the List was a dramatic increase in the 'signal to
noise' ratio. Which is ok. We kind of expected it anyway.

>There _are_ a plethora of interested bystanders who are
>benefitted by you and your colleagues' ideas and expertise on
>the subjects presented here. Believe me, I among many (IMHO)
>value the information we glean from this List. You all have
>brought the UFO 'phenom' to a higher standard of possibility,
>probability, and believability... again IMHO!

I am complimented that you have lumped me in with some of the
truly wonderful research people that contribute to this List. In
terms of my being an 'expert' of any kind regarding 'ufos' that
isn't so. Real 'experts' in ufology are very rare. People like
Dick Hall, Stan Friedman, Jerry Clark and a puny handful of
others comprise a short-list of individuals that have spent the
better part of a life-time immersed in a dedicated study of the
subject. I just don't qualify to be a member (or even the
janitor) of that 'League of Extraordinary Ladies and Gentlemen."
:)

But thank you for your very kind words.

>I imagine for those of us who have no expertise, but who _do_
>have experiences with UFOs, whether that be sightings and/or
>visitations, a List like this brings comfort in a way. Comfort
>because you all seem to be intelligent and probing 'warriors'
>who bring us little people up a notch by your honest inquiry
>about the 'Unknown'! You want to know what _we_ want to know,
>and you are not afraid to lead the quest into our future.

>I just wanted to commend you and _thank_you_ for all your
>efforts here on UFO UpDates! Keep on keeping on! You _are_
>appreciated!

Geez Mary, again, I am deeply humbled by your very kind words.
Thanks for the vote of support. It means a lot. It helps to keep
me going just to know 'somebody' is listening. And yes, With EBK
moderating, providing the setting, along with setting the bar
for quality high, I like to think that UFO UpDates and SDI are
head and shoulders above everything else that is available on
the subject. It is the one and only e-mail List I have _ever_ or
_would_ ever participate in. All kudos should go to EBK for all
the thankless and countless hours that he dedicates to this List
and to producing SDI.

Errol, you're da 'Man' bro! Without you... none of this happens.

Thanks for the note, Mary.   ;)


Regards,

John Velez, Just one of the 'peons' at UFO UpDates.  :)








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   Feb > Feb 2

                           Secrecy News --02/02/04

From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood.nul>
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 15:10:20 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 16:47:58 -0500
Subject: Secrecy News --02/02/04


SECRECY NEWS
from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy
Volume 2004, Issue No. 11
February 2, 2004


**      INTELLIGENCE REVIEW: PLAY IT AGAIN
**      NIC NICKED IN PUBLIC FORUM
**      JASON ON VERIFICATION TECHNOLOGY (1990)
**      SECURITY CLASSIFICATION IN A POST 9/11 ENVIRONMENT


INTELLIGENCE REVIEW:  PLAY IT AGAIN

Congress "implored" President Bush in 2002 to take steps to
reform U.S. intelligence, but those steps were never taken.

Various intelligence reforms were proposed early on in the Bush
Administration, according to press reports and government
documents, but they were not implemented.

"President Bush has ordered a comprehensive review of the
nation's intelligence capabilities, asking Director of Central
Intelligence George J. Tenet to determine how the CIA and a
dozen sister agencies are coping with rapid technological change
and difficult new targets," the Washington Post reported nearly
three years ago.

See "U.S. Intelligence Efforts to Get Major Review" by Vernon
Loeb, May 12, 2001:

 http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A16603-
2001May11.html

The reference of course was not to the new intelligence review
that will be announced this week but to an earlier study that
was initiated by President Bush when he issued National Security
Presidential Directive 5, dated May 9, 2001.

NSPD-5, the text of which has never been disclosed, is cursorily
summarized here:

http://www.fas.org/irp/offdocs/nspd/nspd-5.htm

Gen. Brent Scowcroft, who helped lead the NSPD-5 review, told
Congress in 2001 that a report on the review was submitted to
the White House, though it has remained classified.

When President Bush took no action on the NSPD-5 review, the
House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence begged him to
finally give due attention to it.  Thus, the Committee stated in
its July 2002 report on the FY 2003 intelligence authorization
act:

"The Committee implores the President, in particular, to receive
the findings from the NSPD-5 review and act upon them with
expediency."

"The President's own review resulting from NSPD-5 will ... aid
in assessing the nation's intelligence effectiveness and what
barriers impinge on that effectiveness."

See:

http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/2002_rpt/hrpt107-592.html

But there are no indications that President Bush ever acted upon
the NSPD-5 findings.


NIC NICKED IN PUBLIC FORUM

In a small but telling sign of mounting public dissatisfaction
with U.S. intelligence, even the DCI's National Intelligence
Council (NIC), a sort of intelligence community think tank, is
coming under fire for its perceived inadequacies.

"The NIC is precisely the place where ... comprehensive,
forward-looking thinking is supposed to happen," writes one
anonymous poster on a web-based bulletin board.  "Instead, it's
where sharply argued views go to die."

"The Middle East to 2020," which is a recent NIC publication,
"turns out to be mainly an assortment of pabulum and truisms,
leavened with occasional bits of pseudo-profound gibberish."
See:

http://www.mideastweb.org/log/archives/00000173.htm


JASON ON VERIFICATION TECHNOLOGY (1990)

The JASON defense advisory group produced a detailed survey of
nuclear arms control verification technologies in a 1990 report
that may still be of interest to specialists in the field.

"This study analyzes several of the principal new challenges to
effective verification of compliance to agreed limits to weapons
now under discussion at the START negotiations.  The new
requirements are analyzed, new technologies are described, and
specific proposals are presented for enhancing our capabilities
to verify treaty compliance."

See "Verification Technology: Unclassified Version" (139 pp, in
a very large 5.8 MB PDF file) here:

http://www.fas.org/irp/agency/dod/jason/verif.pdf


SECURITY CLASSIFICATION IN A POST 9/11 ENVIRONMENT

The effectiveness of the national security classification system
in protecting classified information depends on a robust
declassification process, said William Leonard, director of the
Information Security Oversight Office, in a speech to the
American Historical Association last month.

"We cannot depend upon [the classification] system to protect
today's sensitive secrets unless we regularly purge it of
yesterday's secrets that no longer require protection in the
interest of national security.  Allowing such material to remain
classified, in addition to contributing to an incomplete or
distorted view of our history, also can have a corrosive effect
on the efficacy of the classification system in general."

"To allow information that can no longer cause damage to
national security to remain in the classification system places
all classified information at needless increased risk," Mr.
Leonard said.

Mr. Leonard's ISOO is the federal agency responsible for
overseeing classification and declassification activity
throughout the executive branch.

See his January 9 presentation on "Security Classification in a
Post 9/11 Environment" here:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/isoo/wl010904.html


_______________________________________________
Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the
Federation of American Scientists.

To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to
secrecy_news-request.nul
with "subscribe" in the body of the message.

OR email your request to saftergood.nul

Secrecy News is archived at:
http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html

_______________________
Steven Aftergood
Project on Government Secrecy
Federation of American Scientists
web:    www.fas.org/sgp/index.html
email:  saftergood.nul
voice:  (202) 454-4691








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                     Re: New European UFO Survey - Hall

From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 20:43:02 +0000
Fwd Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 16:53:42 -0500
Subject: Re: New European UFO Survey - Hall


>From: Max Burns <max.burns.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 00:31:43 -0000
>Subject: Re: New European UFO Survey

<snip>

>The mission statement and portfolio of this group looks
>impressive. I certainly hope that this group can recieve support
>from ufology as they make themselves known. Also, what they hope
>to achieve with this collaboration across a broad spectram of
>academia.

>I am sure the group will keep us all informed as they move into
>the full launch over the coming months.

>I welcome the European UFO survey to our global ufological
>family:

>http://www.europeanufosurvey.com/

>Max

Max,

As far as I can see all we still have is that oxymoronic
"anonymous science." They will receive no credibility whatsoever
without giving their names. Anyone can claim to have those
backgrounds. At the very least, they need to have a few willing
to speak out, giving their full identities.

 - Dick








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               Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Hatch

From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 13:26:44 -0800
Fwd Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 16:56:48 -0500
Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Hatch


> From: Dan Bright <ufo.nul>
> To: ufoupdates.nul
> Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 22:39:33 -0000
> Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph

>>From: Amy Hebert <vanguard.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 07:46:47 -0600
>>Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph

>>>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 15:56:12 -0500
>>>Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph

>>You claim the light is coming from above, to the right and
>>slightly in *front* of all the objects in the photo. You also
>>claim the sun would have been over and slightly *behind* the
>>photographer's right shoulder. If this is true, where is the
>>photographer's shadow?

>Hi Amy, John, listers:

>The azimuth of the sun at 14:52pm, for Whittlesea Australia
>(Lat: 37=B0 31' South, Long: 145=B0, 07' East), on January 15 2004
>would have been 29.9=B0. The Altitude would have been 71.5=B0:

>http://aa.usno.navy.mil/

>The railway line that is present in the image probably runs
>South to North (Melbourne to Epping). The sun would be to the
>West (North would be to the right of the image). This
>corresponds with the shadows that are visible te ground.

>The precise pattern and intensity of reflection and shadow on
>the object would surely depend upon it's precise shape,
>dimensions, attitude, altitude, surface material, atmospheric
>haze, so on and so forth, which of course we don't know.

>For what it's worth, I've also done a few test renders of a
>domed disk in various positions (with the sun set as stated
>above):

>http://www.zaziork.com/astrobservation/whittlesea_demo.htm


Hello Dan, Amy, John:

The orientation of the camera seems paramount. What precise
direction was the camera facing when the shot was taken?

Nothing I found in the Australian news seems to indicate this!
 What I see is a railway that could run in practically any
direction, perhaps diagonally to the major compass points as
rails take any wide turn necessary to avoid steep grades. What I
think I see is a rise or ridge on the far horizon, topped with
trees in sharp focus.  I would expect a flying saucer to also be
in sharp focus unless moving at high speeds.

The tracks run parallel to this horizon "ridge" as I would
expect, again to avoid fuel wasting grades.

Some dedicated rail fan compiled rail maps of Victoria State:

http://www.cdi.com.au/~johnc/railmap.htm

If you click on the "South" sector of that map you see this one:
(Melbourne itself is a black box because its just too covered
with rails)

http://www.cdi.com.au/~johnc/rlyv-s.gif

The yellow line running north from the Melbourne denied area
ends at Whittlesea!  On a separate (red) line just to the West,
I find Beveridge. Beveridge and Whittlesea are connected by road
but not by rail directly.

Since the highway crossing is identified as Beveridge Road, I
presume that road runs roughly East-West, and that the
photographer had to be facing either East or West (plus/minus so
many degrees of course.)

As this is/was Summer time in Australia, I would expect the Sun
to be high in the Northern skies at Noon, and well off to the
West of that by 14:52 hours (nearly 3:00 PM).

I calculated something like a 300 degree Azimuth, and ran the US
Navy site algorithm to get a more accurate 290 degrees. This
places the sun in the Western skies, as one might expect unless
the Earth reversed its spin.  Any chance there was an error in
the numbers above?  The Navy site also gave an elevation of
about 55 degrees above the horizon.

I used Form B on this web page:

http://aa.usno.navy.mil/

There is a nice explanation of Azimuth and Elevation directly
below that.  Victoria State is 10 hours ahead or "East" of
Greenwich if anyone wants to double-check the figures.

The table produced is in even 10-minute increments, thus the
approximate figures for 14:52 hours local time.

With the Sun to the WNW (Azm. =3D290 dgrs) and presuming the
railway runs generally North-South as shown on the map, the
photographer would have to be facing more or less either East or
West.

If he was facing East, the Sun's reflection coming from his
right would place the Sun somewhere in the Southern skies!  I
really doubt that.

If he was facing West, the Sun should have been pretty much in
front of him, perhaps showing in the photo itself.

I'm at a loss here. Can somebody in the Melbourne area get a few
important data points for us?

1) Where precisely is the location of this railway crossing?

2) Do the tracks run N-S as the map seems to indicate?

3) Which way does Beveridge Road run? E-W as I
might presume?

3) Which way was the photographer facing?

This isn't rocket science. Just take a spin out to that same
railway crossing, bring a camera, shoot the same scene at the
same time of day. It should be easily and positively identified
by the crossing signs, landscape etc.

Tell us which way you are facing when you take the same photo,
and don't rely on a magnetic compass or "dead reckoning", both
notoriously inaccurate. Bring a good local map, and of course
the original news photo for orientation.

If you do this right away (Don't wait until March), the Sun's
position should roughly the same. Please indicate that as well.

Maybe we can lay this matter to rest.


Best wishes

- Larry Hatch








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             Re: Has A UFO Ever Killed A Diesel Engine? - Shell

From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 15:27:22 -0600
Fwd Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 16:58:50 -0500
Subject: Re: Has A UFO Ever Killed A Diesel Engine? - Shell


>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 17:16:55 -0800
>Subject: Re: Has A UFO Ever Killed A Diesel Engine?

>An engine that "starts itself" afterward really has me pulling
>my beard.

Yes, that's the most puzzling effect. Sure, a strong EM pulse
can blow out a circuit board or pop a fuse, but an engine isn't
just going to start up again afterwards. We don't know of
anything that can neutralize a magnetic field, but we're not
really all that clear about just what magnetism and electricity
are in the first place.

I once read something (I forget where) that suggested the effect
is a result of some kind of time distortion. The engines die
because the electricity has somehow slowed down (?) within range
of the UFO, and there's a disconnection in the circuit. And even
though humans have a strong electrical component in their
nervous systems, we're still able to remain conscious of the UFO
and its activities because we're somehow more flexible in our
perceptions of time. Except for feeling "weird."

I don't know what to make of it, because I can't imagine what it
would take to be able to manipulate time. Phantom mass? Dark
energy? Who knows?








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               Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Hatch

From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 14:02:00 -0800
Fwd Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 07:59:26 -0500
Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Hatch


>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 12:16:49 -0500
>Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph

>>From: Dan Bright <ufo.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 18:36:09 -0000
>>Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph

<snip>

>>For the benefit of those who don't have access to photoshop or
>>something similar, the EXIF data provides the following:

>>The camera was: KODAK DC240 ZOOM DIGITAL CAMERA
>>Exposure time: 1/250 seconds
>>F-stop: 9.5
>>Date/time: January 15 2004, 14:52:46
>>Shutter Speed: 1/256 seconds
>>Aperture Value: 6.5
>>Metering Mode: Average
>>Focal Length: 10mm
>>Pixel X Dimension: 1280
>>Pixel Y Dimension: 960

>>Not everything, but it's a start.

>Amusing to note that the shutter speed (1/256) is shorter than
>the exposure time (1/250). Also, what is the "aperture value" of
>6.5 mean; the f-stop is given as 9.5.Incidently, with focal
>length of 10 mm, then the aperture diameter would be 10mm/9.5 or
>a hair bigger than 1 mm.... quite a small aperture.


Hello Bruce, Dan, John et.al.:

With all that photographic data, nobody seems to know for sure
which direction the photographer was facing.

The news photos are pretty dark, underexposed? I tried to see
shadows from the railroad crossing signs etc., but its just too
dark.

The only clue to the Sun's position I can make out is on the
"UFB" (bug? bird? beta-craft?) itself, and I'd like to rule out
a cut and paste job at least. The Australian authorities seem to
vouch for the photographer, who said he had no visual sighting.

Do you (Bruce) have any opinions based on the image in info
available so far?

The fuzziness seems to imply a very fast or very close object.
Blowups look more like a flying saucer than a bug or bird, at
least to me for now. I'm glad it isn't a stinkin' "rod".


Best

- Larry







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              Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Bright

From: Dan Bright <ufo.nul>
Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 22:09:29 -0000
Fwd Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 08:01:26 -0500
Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Bright


>From: Dan Bright <ufo.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 22:39:33 -0000
>Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph

>The azimuth of the sun at 14:52pm, for Whittlesea Australia (Lat:
>37=B0 31' South, Long: 145=B0, 07' East), on January 15 2004 would
>have been 29.9=B0. The Altitude would have been 71.5=B0:

>http://aa.usno.navy.mil/

Listers,

I made an error in my figures.

The azimuth of the sun at 14:52pm, for Whittlesea Australia
(Lat: 37 31' South, Long: 145, 07' East), on January 15 2004
would have been 275.6. The Altitude would have been 43.4.

http://aa.usno.navy.mil/

Date and time are ascertained from the EXIF data, embedded
within the image.

However, if the camera was not set to take account of daylight
saving time, then the actual local time would have been 13:52.
This corresponds to the photographer's statement that the
pictures were taken "about 2pm" (Hearldsun newspaper article).

If this was the case, then the azimuth would have been 287.6
and the altitude 55.1

In respect to the direction that the photographer was facing, he
states "I took about 10 or 12 photos, facing east and west"
(Hearldsun newspaper article).

Apologies for the mistake!


Best to all,

Dan

--
Dan Bright
www.theunexplained.info








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             Re: Has A UFO Ever Killed A Diesel Engine? - White

From: Eleanor White <eleanor.nul>
Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 17:16:46 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 08:02:51 -0500
Subject: Re: Has A UFO Ever Killed A Diesel Engine? - White


>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 17:16:55 -0800
>Subject: Re: Has A UFO Ever Killed A Diesel Engine?

<snip>

>So... its a mixed bag of results. Often as not, the diesel
>engine kept running, even when a gas engine quit at the same
>time. Then, in association with stranger effects, even a diesel
>engine will slow or stall entirely. An engine that "starts
>itself" afterward really has me pulling my beard.

Thanks, Larry -

Once you get into time manipulation one would not expect any
sort of engine to always keep running through that.
Additionally, if time gets manipulated, an engine re-starting
itself doesn't seem all that strange.

>This leads me to ask whether these effects are side-effects of
>UFO technology, propulsion or whatever, or whether they are
>deliberately introduced for some other purpose.

I can report that effects we advanced technology targets, AKA
"mind control", experience, include some which seem to indicate
manipulation of time. I.e., time moving at different speeds or
even reversing within a restricted physical zone. Add to that
the UFO-related time distortion effects, and the crop circle
time distortion effects, and you begin to get the idea there is
a huge amount of technology waiting to be discovered, or,
waiting to be disclosed to the public (more likely).

Personally I'm betting that anti-gravity, multidimensional
access, and time manipulation are part of a package - and when
you get one working, you get the others too.


Eleanor White








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               Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Velez

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 17:22:45 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 08:09:21 -0500
Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Velez


>From: Amy Hebert <vanguard.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 21:54:27 -0600
>Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph

>>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 15:15:10 -0500
>>Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph

>>>From: Amy Hebert <vanguard.nul>
>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 07:46:47 -0600
>>>Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph

>>Hello Amy, All,

>>Here we go again....you wrote:

>>>Although I see no evidence the photograph in question has been
>>>faked, I did find various inconsistencies in your example.

>>Let me see if I get this straight, you don't see any evidence of
>>fakery in the Whittlesea photo but _I_ am faking my
>>illustrations. Am I reading you correctly?

Hello Amy,

BTW, this is the last post from you that I will be responding
to. Although you do make 'some' good contributions and make some
intelligent observations from time to time, you consistently
lose it whenever you address me. I have already told you that I
have much more productive things to do with the time of my life
than to dance around with you. With you, it's either "your way
or the highway." Enough already.

So... enjoy this, it'll be the last you hear from me for awhile
anyway.

You insult me with:

>No, inconsistencies between the location of the light source in
>an illustration and the location of the light source (and
>resulting shadows) in the original image is not "faking" it,
>it's just not paying attention to detail or ignoring it.

You really are funny. You have no idea at what time of day the
photo was taken. Yet you claim 'inconsistencies' in my 3D
rendition.

1. The time of day was two minutes before 3 pm, Oz time - which
puts the sun a lot lower in the sky than you 'think' it was.
Right out of the box, your estimation of where in the sky the
sun is is off by at least an hour.

2. Without knowing _anything_ at all about the 3D model I
created (for my own edification) you claim that I positioned
elements and lighting in the wrong place. Amy, how in heavens'
name can you know what I did when you didn't even bother to ask
me? That's what prompted the 'psychic hotline' comment. You
would have to be to know what you 'claim' to know.

3. You are always on about everybody's 'misperceptions' with the
glaring exception of ever criticizing your own. You have created
a model of a brown turd-like structure with large white wings
using _several_ pieces of software including some intendedfor
'drawing and painting', called it a "fly" and claim that it
resembles the Whittlesea object. This whole thing is just an
exercise in proving yourself 'right' somehow and everybody else
who sees what I see, (a domed disc) is wrong. Because you have a
'book' to sell you won't stop until everybody says, "You're
right Amy, it's a fly." It ain't gonna happen with me. Which is
why I am terminating communication with you. It's pointless.

>Show me where the
>sun was in your illustration compared to the location of the sun
>in the Whittlesea UFO photograph and where it would have been at
>approximately 2:00pm on the day the photograph was taken.

Now you ask me to show you! <LOL> Why, I was laboring under the
delusion that you already knew! You have said repeatedly that I
placed the sun in the wrong position several times. Wouldn't you
have to know 'where' I placed it in order to make such a
comment? Why ask me if you already 'know?'

Ahem, that's _3:00 pm_ not 2 pm. The sun was lower in the sky
than you think it was. I believe it is _you_ who do not know (or
have a clue) as to 'where' the sun is coming from in the
Whittlesea photo. You know the old mechanics' saying; "put brain
'in gear' _before_ engaging mouth!"  <g>

>>>In reproducing your 3D model of the Whittlesea UFO using my own
>>>Bryce 5 (I use Bryce 5, Poser, Adobe, Paint Shop Pro 8 and
>>>numerous other programs to create 3D graphics for my research
>>>and the book I am writing),

>>Wow! Writing a 'book' eh? I'll bet getting some attention so
>>people will want to read it is an important activity eh?

>Since the book I am writing has nothing to do with the topic at
>hand, this conversation is actually more of a distraction than a
>bid for attention eh?

No Amy. I'm calling it like I see it. What original
contributions have you made to ufology that warrant a whole
'book?'

I have a question about your "Reality Check" website; is it _us_
or _you_ who supposedly and in your estimation need a "Reality
Check"? Even the name of it is condescending. It's kind of an
insulting name for a website that purports to be investigative
and open-minded eh?

Bottom line, it is all just a means for you to promote yourself
as a legitimate UFO researcher, which you are not.

>Unfortunately, the experiment I conducted did not produce the
>same results as outlined by your procedures.

Of course not. That's because you haven't got the foggiest
notion as to what I did, or didn't do.

>Furthermore, my
>analysis of the Whittlesea UFO photograph indicates the sun was
>above, to the right and _behind_ the objects in the foreground
>not above, to the right and _in front_ or just over and behind
>the photographer's right shoulder as you claim.

Gee, I guess your "analysis" must be wrong then.

>It does not take a rocket scientist or a Bryce 'expert' to see
>that the reflection of the sun on your "domed disc" is not
>consistent with the shadows and position of the sun in the
>Whittlesea UFO photograph.

You're living proof of that.  :0

Talk to you some other time, Amy. Not enough hours in a day for
me to waste it all verbally dancing around in circles with you.
Besides, you don't even have your basic facts straight, it's all
a waste of time anyway.

Remember now... 3 pm not 2 pm. The sun was lower in the sky than
you 'think' it was. (Or would like it to be!)


Sayonara, it's been real,

John Velez









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             Re: Review Of 'Sight Unseen' By Hopkins & Rainey -

From: Luis R. Gonzalez <lrgm.nul>
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 23:33:50 +0100
Fwd Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 08:40:56 -0500
Subject: Re: Review Of 'Sight Unseen' By Hopkins & Rainey -


To Gildas and all,

I am not trying to explain away the missing time, I simply
explained that I do not think it was so much time. Strictily
speaking, the missing time is only the diference between the
last fellow traveller reclaiming his luggage and the arrival of
Katharina. The rest of the time is just the typical delay in any
arrival at an airport (We do not even know for certain if the
plane arrived on time). And the alleged teleportation is based
only in Katharina's perception (that could be erroneus) that her
watch showed the same time at the pay phones and at the baggage
claim area, but to be so it is not enough a teleportation, she
should have travelled back in time.


Let me quote her own words:


"I called him right away. I was extremely agitated, and the
first thing he said was: "I see your plane was late getting to
Chicago". I looked at my watch and it read about 3:20 Portland
time (...) we only talked 2 or 3 minutes (...) After I said
good-bye I decided to walk to the baggage claim area, but I
don't remember much of anything..."


She arrived there, talked to the police person, and met Mary and
Judy. They talked for a while, commenting that they had been
waiting a long time, Katharina looked at her watch, and read
again 3:20. But it should read at least 3:25! Or her watch
stopped (a usual EM effect around UFOs or abductees), or she
travelled back in time, or simply she was so agitated that she
read it wrongly.

But my point was not offering alternate explanations for the
alleged facts, I just wanted to expose the faulty logic of Carol
Rainey's proposed explanations.

Well, if you are satisfied simply because a book dares to present
and discuss "high strangeness" cases, it is your right. I would
prefer a more detailed appraisal of the evidence, before
interpreting them in the most sensational way. UFO stories have
gotten more and more sensational since the very beginning, and
that is the real problem faced by UFO believers: as they cannot
dismiss anything, they have to twist and bias the data (and the
scientific extrapolations) trying to make acceptable those
increasingly, unbelievable stories.


Luis R. Gonz=E1lez Manso








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               Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Velez

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 17:42:09 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 08:51:08 -0500
Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Velez


>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 12:16:49 -0500
>Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph

>>From: Dan Bright <ufo.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 18:36:09 -0000
>>Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph

>>>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 11:28:00 -0500
>>>Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph

><snip>

>>>first, we need to find out some 'knowns'... ie; lens settings,
>>>aperture, whether a zoom was used, approximate distances to
>>>objects in the photo, etc. etc. etc.

>>>Can someone get the raw data from one of the principles,
>>>preferably the civil engineer/cameraman himself. Once we get our
>>>mitts on that info, getting a good 'guesstimate' on the size,
>>>distance and approximate speed of the object is a piece of cake.

>>For the benefit of those who don't have access to photoshop or
>>something similar, the EXIF data provides the following:

>>The camera was: KODAK DC240 ZOOM DIGITAL CAMERA
>>Exposure time: 1/250 seconds
>>F-stop: 9.5
>>Date/time: January 15 2004, 14:52:46
>>Shutter Speed: 1/256 seconds
>>Aperture Value: 6.5
>>Metering Mode: Average
>>Focal Length: 10mm
>>Pixel X Dimension: 1280
>>Pixel Y Dimension: 960

>>Not everything, but it's a start.

>Amusing to note that the shutter speed (1/256) is shorter than
>the exposure time (1/250). Also, what is the "aperture value" of
>6.5 mean; the f-stop is given as 9.5.Incidently, with focal
>length of 10 mm, then the aperture diameter would be 10mm/9.5 or
>a hair bigger than 1 mm.... quite a small aperture.


Broooose!

Man, _where_ have you been? Never mind, all that matters
now is that you are here. :)

'Pluck your magic-twanger Froggy!'

Much relieved to have you on-board for this one. Can't wait
to follow developments from here on out.


Regards,

John Velez








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             Re: Review Of 'Sight Unseen' By Hopkins & Rainey -

From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 16:45:23 -0600
Fwd Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 08:52:49 -0500
Subject: Re: Review Of 'Sight Unseen' By Hopkins & Rainey -


>From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 15:42:28 +0100
>Subject: Re: Review Of 'Sight Unseen' By Hopkins & Rainey

>It is going to be easy to demolish the book, if you want to.
>But I feel that it goes in the right direction. To be sure,
>there is still a long way to go!

It is interesting that the old "alternate dimensions" argument
was finally brought into the picture in an effort to explain the
obvious inconsistencies and odd events that seem to go along
with many abduction scenarios. And this is particularly
noteworthy since Hopkins, from my perspective anyway, has always
been much more of a nuts-and-bolts (or perhaps "blood-and-guts")
proponent. He hasn't quite made the jump yet from the Mars Needs
Women viewpoint to a more paraphysical stance, which might
included ghosts and demons and all the other entities that go
bump in the night, by it is an interesting shift.

But this sort of "explaining something unexplained with
something perhaps even more unexplained" is not going to win
very many debates. Unless there's some way to anticipate an
event and get some decent data - synchronized, sealed clocks
that end up with time differences, maybe - then it's all just
fluffy conjecture. Hell, even I can do that!

What would be a good experiment to test this invisibility/pulled
out of normal spacetime experience? Again, when it comes to the
idea of measuring or manipulating time within spacetime, I'm no
Einstein. I admit I'm just not smart enough to come up with even
a decent paradigm within which a test can be structured.








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             Re: Has A UFO Ever Killed A Diesel Engine? - Hatch

From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 14:52:49 -0800
Fwd Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 08:54:22 -0500
Subject: Re: Has A UFO Ever Killed A Diesel Engine? - Hatch


>From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 15:27:22 -0600
>Subject: Re: Has A UFO Ever Killed A Diesel Engine?

>>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 17:16:55 -0800
>>Subject: Re: Has A UFO Ever Killed A Diesel Engine?

>>An engine that "starts itself" afterward really has me pulling
>>my beard.

>Yes, that's the most puzzling effect. Sure, a strong EM pulse
>can blow out a circuit board or pop a fuse, but an engine isn't
>just going to start up again afterwards. We don't know of
>anything that can neutralize a magnetic field, but we're not
>really all that clear about just what magnetism and electricity
>are in the first place.

>I once read something (I forget where) that suggested the effect
>is a result of some kind of time distortion. The engines die
>because the electricity has somehow slowed down (?) within range
>of the UFO, and there's a disconnection in the circuit. And even
>though humans have a strong electrical component in their
>nervous systems, we're still able to remain conscious of the UFO
>and its activities because we're somehow more flexible in our
>perceptions of time. Except for feeling "weird."

>I don't know what to make of it, because I can't imagine what it
>would take to be able to manipulate time. Phantom mass? Dark
>energy? Who knows?


Hello Tim:

I can think of a simple mechanism for _some_ cases.

The witness, especially in 'missing time' cases, is himself the
one who restarts the engine!

In a state of fear and confusion, he simply doesn't remember.
What he recalls after regaining his senses, it that the motor
conked out in the first place.

Going much further out on a limb, the UFO - or its occupant, if
any - starts the car in a failed attempt to cover up the
incident, trying to make things seem less abnormal and
noteworthy.

If that's asking too much, at least it's less extravagant than
time warps etc.


Best

- Larry








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              Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Bright

From: Dan Bright <dan.bright.nul>
Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 22:58:17 -0000
Fwd Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 08:59:18 -0500
Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Bright


>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 13:26:44 -0800
>Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph

>The orientation of the camera seems paramount. What precise
>direction was the camera facing when the shot was taken?

The photographer states that he was taking shots facing "east
and west" - Hearldsun:

http://tinyurl.com/39jy4

>I calculated something like a 300 degree Azimuth, and ran the US
>Navy site algorithm to get a more accurate 290 degrees. This
>places the sun in the Western skies, as one might expect unless
>the Earth reversed its spin.  Any chance there was an error in
>the numbers above?

Yes. I double checked my figures earlier and the air turned blue
when I realised my error. I just sent the corrections prior to
reading your post. Doh!!

>The table produced is in even 10-minute increments, thus the
>approximate figures for 14:52 hours local time.

There is a facility to changing that to 1-min increments, which
is how I got my final figures (almost the same as yours: Azm
287.6, Alt: 55.1). This is for 13:52 local time, and assumes
that the photographer's statement of "about 2pm" was correct
(meaning the EXIF embedded data is one hour fast. This has
nothing to do with daylight saving time as I mistakenly alluded
to in a previous post -- when you're having one of those
days...!

If, however, the EXIF data was correct (and the photographer was
wrong in his statement), then local time would be 14:52
Azm=275.6 and Alt=43.4)

>I'm at a loss here. Can somebody in the Melbourne area get a few
>important data points for us?

I've emailed a contact of mine in Australia and am awaiting his
response. I'll let you know if he's willing to take a day trip
out there.


Best to all,

--
Dan Bright
dan.bright.nul
www.zaziork.com








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             Re: Review Of 'Sight Unseen' By Hopkins & Rainey -

From: Luis R. Gonzalez <lrgm.nul>
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 00:08:05 +0100
Fwd Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 09:03:01 -0500
Subject: Re: Review Of 'Sight Unseen' By Hopkins & Rainey -


>From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 15:42:28 +0100
>Subject: Re: Review Of 'Sight Unseen' By Hopkins & Rainey

Sorry, Gildas, I forgot to address this point

>In turn, I don't understand clearly you critic on the supposed
>invisibility of Katharina. You say that other people should have
>bumped into her, but she explains that she could see them, so
>she could avoid them.

First at all, H.G. Wells notwithstanding and as any SF fan would
know (yes, we know since the early 80s that Mr. Hopkins is _not_
a SF fan), a human person turned invisible should become blind,
if only because his eyes would also be transparent to light!

Yes, I know there are fictional ways to go around that problem,
but they do not matter here. Let's admit that Katharina could
see.

Even in this case, she still has not eyes in her neck (I hope),
so if she was looking to the people inside the restroom, she was
probably with her back to the door, and somebody could had
entered and bumped into her without she noticing in time to
avoid them.

But that young woman did look in her direction and didn't
respond, walking right past her hurriedly. Maybe I am reading to
much in it, but after all she easily located the source of the
allegedly disemboidied voice, _she look in her direction_. Why
she did not answer? Whatever the reasons they surely would be
more comprenhensible than a temporary invisivility. If I were
her and found myself in an airport restroom with a clearly
agitated person asking me "Am I invisible or something?", I
certainly would not bother to answer and enter a probable
discussion, I will finish hurriedly and walk away.


Luis R. Gonzalez Manso








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              Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Bright

From: Dan Bright <ufo.nul>
Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 23:10:19 -0000
Fwd Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 09:05:13 -0500
Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Bright


On 2 Feb 2004 at 16:56, UFO UpDates - Toronto wrote:

>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 13:26:44 -0800
>Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph

>The orientation of the camera seems paramount. What precise
>direction was the camera facing when the shot was taken?

The photographer states that he was taking shots facing "east
and west" (Hearldsun: http://tinyurl.com/39jy4)

>I calculated something like a 300 degree Azimuth, and ran the
>US Navy site algorithm to get a more accurate 290 degrees. This
>places the sun in the Western skies, as one might expect unless
>the Earth reversed its spin.  Any chance there was an error in
>the numbers above?

Yes. I double checked my figures earlier and the air turned blue
when I realised my error. I just sent the corrections prior to
reading your post. Doh!!

>The table produced is in even 10-minute increments, thus the
>approximate figures for 14:52 hours local time.

There is a facility to changing that to 1-min increments, which
is how I got my final figures (almost the same as yours: Azm
287.6, Alt: 55.1). This is for 13:52 local time, and assumes
that the  photographer's statement of "about 2pm" was correct
(meaning the EXIF embedded data is one hour fast. This has
nothing to do with daylight saving time as I mistakenly alluded
to in a previous post -- when you're having one of those
days...!

If, however, the EXIF data was correct (and the photographer was
wrong in his statement), then local time would be 14:52
Azm=275.6 and Alt=43.4)

>I'm at a loss here. Can somebody in the Melbourne area get a
>few important data points for us?

I've emailed a contact of mine in Australia and am awaiting his
response. I'll let you know if he's willing to take a day trip
out there.

Best to all,

--
Dan Bright
www.theunexplained.info








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              Re: Strange Sighting Puzzles Satellite-Watcher -

From: Stan Friedman <fsphys.nul>
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 19:13:03 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 09:08:57 -0500
Subject: Re: Strange Sighting Puzzles Satellite-Watcher -


>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 10:32:14 -0800
>Subject: Strange Sighting Puzzles Satellite-Watcher

>Source: The Huddersfield Daily - UK

Examinerhttp://ichuddersfield.icnetwork.co.uk/0100news/0100localnews/content _ob
jectid=13906933_method=full_siteid=50060_headline=-Strange-sighting-in-sk ies-pu
zzles-satellite-watcher-name_page.html

>Feb 2 2004

>Strange Sighting Puzzles Satellite-Watcher

>Strange lights have been seen in the sky above Linthwaite.

<snip>

>Robert Williams, a member of Huddersfield Astronomical and
>Philosophical Society, said no-one had spotted the object from
>the society's Crosland Hill observatory.

>But he said there were several rational explanations for the
>sighting.

>He said it could be the International Space Station, which is
>sometimes visible above Huddersfield.

>He said the space station was very bright and moved quickly.

>Alternatively, the object could have been a man-made satellite,
>said Mr Williams.

>There are about 30 man-made satellites which pass over the
>Earth, some travelling in groups at an altitude of 200 miles.

>There is one particular group of three - in a triangle shape -
> which passes over Huddersfield.

>Finally, Mr Williams said the object could have been an `iridium
>flare'. These flashes of light, lasting just seconds, occur when
>communication satellites catch light from the Sun as they
>rotate.

>Mr Williams added: "I would imagine that anything anyone sees in
>the night sky is not strange or unusual."

I have heard many silly comments but doesn't this just
epitomize the pseudoscience of anti-ufology? This of course
rules out new aircraft as well as UFOs. I will have more
examples of such foolishness once I receive the videos of my
January 28, debate.

>He added that anyone keen to study the night sky could come
>to the observatory on Blackmoorfoot Road during an open
>week, which starts next Monday.

Anybody know how many satellites are actually in orbit as
opposed to the 30 noted above?


Stan Friedman








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   Feb > Feb 3

                  Laws And Leaks Of Classified Intelligence

From: Terry W. Colvin <fortean1.nul>
Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 19:07:14 -0700
Fwd Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 09:19:29 -0500
Subject: Laws And Leaks Of Classified Intelligence


Laws And Leaks Of Classified Intelligence:
Costs And Consequences Of Permissive Neglect
By James B. Bruce

http://www.cicentre.com/Documents/DOC_Classified_Leaks.htm

--
"Only a zit on the wart on the heinie of progress." Copyright 1992, Frank Rice


Terry W. Colvin, Sierra Vista, Arizona (USA)
fortean1.nul








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                Re: UFO ROUNDUP Volume 9, Number 4 - Balaskas

From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul>
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 21:17:56 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
Fwd Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 09:22:44 -0500
Subject: Re: UFO ROUNDUP Volume 9, Number 4 - Balaskas


>From: John Hayes <webmaster.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 17:10:05 +0000
>Subject: Re: UFO ROUNDUP Volume 9, Number 4

>>From: Steven L. Wilson Sr <Ndunlks.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 23:29:59 EST
>>Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 9, Number 4

>>UFO ROUNDUP
>>Volume 9, Number 4
>>January 28, 2004
>>Editor: Joseph Trainor

><snip>

>>ROUNDUP MYSTERY VAN CAUGHT ON FILM

>Anyone wishing to see the image of the van it is now on the
>website with the bulletin at:

>http://www.ufoinfo.com/roundup/v09/rnd0904.shtml

>My thanks to Steven for getting the bulletin out to the List
>(Just like old times Steven <g>). My computer stopped working
>last Tuesday and I have been forced to check my mail either at
>work or on another person's computer. It will be a few weeks
>before I can get things sorted out and site updates might be
>delayed until then.


Hi Everyone!

It is interesting to note that exactly thirty years ago this
January, Dennis Prophet, a resident of Scarborough, Ontario (now
part of the City of Toronto) had a UFO sighting that not only
changed his life but resulted in Canada's first UFO research van
- one that was just as impressive and nearly outrageous as the
van spotted in Arizona.

His UFO van contained much investigative equipment, including a
telephone (a big deal then!) and an electromagnetic UFO
detector. Prophet's van was also equipped with a transparent dome
skylight for a large telescope which he used for UFO searches at
night. He was a member of MUFON and founder of his own UFO
group, Reptune Research.

There are a few ufologists and UFO enthusiasts, such as
Toronto's TV newswriter Mike Woods who drives around in a
vehicle with the license plate 'UFO GUY', that are always
prepared with binoculars and cameras in their cars for their
next encounter with UFOs.

While doing a search for any others out there who like Prophet
operated their own UFO vans, I came across this, unrelated but
interesting article, (see below) which reminded me that many vans
in the past had beds in them too!

http://www.mindcontrolforums.com/hambone/mundo.html


Nick Balaskas








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             Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Harrison

From: Diane Harrison <auforn.nul>
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 13:36:43 +1000
Fwd Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 09:26:56 -0500
Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Harrison


>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 13:26:44 -0800
>Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph

>>From: Dan Bright <ufo.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 22:39:33 -0000
>>Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph

<snip>

>>Hi Amy, John, listers:


Hi Amy, John,Larry, everyone.

>>The azimuth of the sun at 14:52pm, for Whittlesea Australia
>>(Lat: 37=B0 31' South, Long: 145=B0, 07' East), on January 15 2004
>>would have been 29.9=B0. The Altitude would have been 71.5=B0:

Just talked to Peter Taylor the reporter

Roland was facing west when he took the picture so the object
was in the west. Sun rises in the east sets in the west
approximate time 2.00 pm . The train was running to the right in
the image it had just left Melbourne.

>>http://aa.usno.navy.mil/

>>The railway line that is present in the image probably runs
>>South to North (Melbourne to Epping). The sun would be to the
>>West (North would be to the right of the image). This
>>corresponds with the shadows that are visible te ground.

Dan your above assumption appears to be correct.

I have to say, regardless of what this object is everyone has
done a fantastic job of trying to identify it and it just goes
to show how everyone's efforts are just as important as the next
persons.

>>The precise pattern and intensity of reflection and shadow on
>>the object would surely depend upon it's precise shape,
>>dimensions, attitude, altitude, surface material, atmospheric
>>haze, so on and so forth, which of course we don't know.

I agree

>>For what it's worth, I've also done a few test renders of a
>>domed disk in various positions (with the sun set as stated
>>above):

>>http://www.zaziork.com/astrobservation/whittlesea_demo.htm

>Hello Dan, Amy, John:

>The orientation of the camera seems paramount. What precise
>direction was the camera facing when the shot was taken?

He was facing west Larry.

>Nothing I found in the Australian news seems to indicate this!
>What I see is a railway that could run in practically any
>direction, perhaps diagonally to the major compass points as
>rails take any wide turn necessary to avoid steep grades. What I
>think I see is a rise or ridge on the far horizon, topped with
>trees in sharp focus.  I would expect a flying saucer to also be
>in sharp focus unless moving at high speeds.

The railway runs north to south Melbourne to New South Wales.

>the tracks run parallel to this horizon "ridge" as I would
>expect, again to avoid fuel wasting grades.

>Some dedicated rail fan compiled rail maps of Victoria State:

>http://www.cdi.com.au/~johnc/railmap.htm

>If you click on the "South" sector of that map you see this one:
>(Melbourne itself is a black box because its just too covered
>with rails)

>http://www.cdi.com.au/~johnc/rlyv-s.gif

>The yellow line running north from the Melbourne denied area
>ends at Whittlesea!  On a separate (red) line just to the West,
>I find Beveridge. Beveridge and Whittlesea are connected by road
>but not by rail directly.
>
>Since the highway crossing is identified as Beveridge Road, I
>presume that road runs roughly East-West, and that the
>photographer had to be facing either East or West (plus/minus so
>many degrees of course.)

West

>As this is/was Summer time in Australia, I would expect the Sun
>to be high in the Northern skies at Noon, and well off to the
>West of that by 14:52 hours (nearly 3:00 PM).

Correct on NSW & VIC times due to daylight saving.

>I'm at a loss here. Can somebody in the Melbourne area get a few
>important data points for us?

>1) Where precisely is the location of this railway crossing?

Due East of Beverage township by 6lkm and 30 to 40klm direct
north of Melbourne.

>2) Do the tracks run N-S as the map seems to indicate?

Yes it does almost along side the M31 called the Hume Hwy
which runs due west of Beverage by 2 to 3 klm.

>3) Which way does Beveridge Road run? E-W as I
>might presume?

The township of Merriang due east before Beverage and is due
north to Whittlesea which is some 10klm northeast of either.

>3) Which way was the photographer facing?

West toward Beverage township - population of Beverage
approximately 200 to 300 hundred. It has 2 local pubs one of
which is the local shop for everything.

>This isn't rocket science. Just take a spin out to that same
>railway crossing, bring a camera, shoot the same scene at the
>same time of day. It should be easily and positively identified
>by the crossing signs, landscape etc.

>Tell us which way you are facing when you take the same photo,
>and don't rely on a magnetic compass or "dead reckoning", both
>notoriously inaccurate. Bring a good local map, and of course
>the original news photo for orientation.

>If you do this right away (Don't wait until March), the Sun's
>position should roughly the same. Please indicate that as well.

>Maybe we can lay this matter to rest.

I hope this helps
--

Regards Diane Harrison

National Director of The Australian UFO Research Network
Australian Skywatch Director

~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>
THE AUSTRALIAN UFO RESEARCH NETWORK
(A Non-Profit Organization)

E-Mail: auforn.nul
E-mail: ufologist.nul
http://www.hypermax.net.au/~auforn

ADMINISTRATION:

PO Box 738
Beaudessert 4285
QLD  Australia
Tel 07 55 44 6888
~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>
Australian UFO Research Network Hotline Number
          1800 77 22 88 Freecall
~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>

All NEW UFO Bookshop at
http://www.contactpublishing.com








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              Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Ledger

From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 01:04:39 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 09:29:37 -0500
Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Ledger


>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 13:26:44 -0800
>Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph


Hi Larry,

The tracks could be, and probably are, a spur line, not a main
line. It might end out of sight of the shot on the left or right
side at a siding. And since we know the time of day and can see
the shadows, the Sun had to be behind and to the right of the
photographer's right shoulder.

The photographer would have been facing approximately south when
he took the shot.

Best,

Don Ledger









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                       Re: SETI Taps The Grid - Miller

From: Stuart Miller <Stuart.Miller4.nul>
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 12:40:16 -0000
Fwd Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 09:32:08 -0500
Subject: Re: SETI Taps The Grid - Miller


>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 10:25:42 -0800
>Subject: Re: SETI Taps The Grid

>>From: Stuart Miller <Stuart.Miller4.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 15:16:02 -0000
>>Subject: Re: SETI Taps The Grid

>>>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 08:52:57 -0800
>>>Subject: Re: SETI Taps The Grid

><snip>

>>>Stuart,

>>>What would the world believe if SETI announced that near one of
>>>their observatories they witnessed a "disc-shaped" UFO; that it
>>>was seen to land, small humanoid beings emerged, walked around
>>>for a few minutes, re-entered the craft and took off; further,
>>>that the craft exhibited extraordinary flying characteristics,
>>>e.g., right angle turns at extrememly high speeds, and finally
>>>seemed to change shapes (morph) before leaving eyeshot?

<snip>

>>I'm fairly sure they's be believed.

>I disagree; that is I'm sure "some" of course would believe an
>announcement from SETI as given in my example, however; I think
>the "perception" of such an announcement would depend on how it
>was presented. Would it get out on the wire? Would it be "aired"
>on the networks? Would it be limited to local exposure, and of
>course the internet?

>Personally, I don't believe the course of events after such an
>announcement from SETI would happen the way one might think,
>furthermore; IMO the "way it would be presented" to the public
>would depend on the "powers-that-be."

You cannot, surely Frank, be setting yourself up to contradict
as authoratative a source as dear old Seth, could you? Seth says
there's no way of keeping it secret. Why, even the mice that run
around at the SETI institute would be e-mailing their pals with
the good news. I agree with you and am a little mystified as to
how Mr. Shostak could be so naive.

>>And what would really be ironic is that Terry
>>Hansen's theories would be confronted and the press would have
>>no choice but to get behind them. They could not ignore SETI, a
>>respected and above all, very well known internationally
>>acclaimed scientific organisation.

>Hmmm... first let me address the term, "theories" as you state
>in regards to "Terry Hansen" and his most impressive, well done
>book, "The Missing Times"; in it he states, "This book is an
>inquiry into the political processes that influence news media
>coverage of the UFO phenomenon... I intend the phrase 'media
>complicity' to mean that news organizations sometimes cooperate
>with government authorities to deceive the public about the
>nature and the scope of the UFO phenomenon." There is ample
>proof of that "theme" via "unclassified documents," as well as
>the CIA's own admittance of media tampering; to that end,
>Terry's "media complicity" argument is certainly not a "theory,"
>but a proven fact!

Oh, semantics, semantics! No disagreement here. Yes, of course I
accept Terry's, shall we say, philosophy.  Proven beyond doubt.

>You state that SETI couldn't be ignored because of their
>international stature, and being an acclaimed "scientific
>organization." I say that if those attributes were the only
>thing necessary to get focus and or attention on the UFO
>phenomenon, then the "enigma" would have been solved and made
>public decades ago. History has proven that the caliber of the
>individual, or the group, is irrelevant to the way the media
>handles reporting the UFO phenomenon.

I find the above comment intriguing. I'm sorry to put you on the
spot, but might you be able to give an example? Specifically
organisations as opposed to individuals.

I can't see this Frank. To me, "caliber" is all, the individual
is irrelevant, the mass of the organisation is everything. To
fall in with your argument, the world doesn't even believe
former astronauts.

To use a less obvious example to further the point, if the
American Society for Prevention of Cruelty to Animals announced
that ET existed, as long as that statement was based on solid
evidence, they'd be believed, I have no doubt.


>In the end Stuart, I believe that there are "two ways" that will
>allow the world as a whole to be enlightened about our visitors;
>one is that the "power-that-be" allow, it and make an
>announcement, (or allow someone else to, and support it) or an
>event takes place on a "grandiose scale" that  can't be denied!

This is very disappointing Frank. We're meant to be having a
civilised debate here and all we're doing is agreeing! So where
do we disagree? I'm alleging that virtually any recognised and
respected institute, regardless of it's involvement in the ET
debate, if it makes an announcement that stands up to
examination, will very likely be believed. You seem to be saying
that this is not so and that history backs this up. I
acknowledge your own personal experiences Frank. It is you that
has screamed into the wind and suffered the brickbats for it.
But that was "Frank Warren", an individual. What weight did he
carry with the world's press and other media? Now, if his then
employers made the same comments.....

At the root of all this, I can't help feeling that what in part
you are saying is, "It's not fair". Of course it isn't. In
another thread about the frustration of finding good witnesses
who won't speak out, mention was made of peer pressure and of
what others might think. I have direct experience of that in my
own profession. People won't wear certain types of reflective
clothing that might well save their lives because their friends
will laugh at them. I interpret that as someone saying, "I would
rather die (literally) than be seen (dead) in that." There you
have it. If people can be that stupid and overlook logic because
of personal insecurities, worries, fear of ridicule etc. then
why on earth should they believe someone else who makes claims
that challenge the Human position and imagination?

Recognised institutions let us off the hook. We slavishly allow
our need for authority to defer to their status, a status by the
way that we ourselves have entrusted them with. So if a
nationally known organisation that occupies itself by rescuing
pussy cats from trees and rounding up stray dogs says ET exists
and here's the proof, I feel they will be believed. If the guy
that climbs the tree to rescue the cat says the same thing,
probably no chance.

I admit I paint a black and white picture and the reality has
countless shades of grey. But we're fighting the Human Condition
and we won't win. Your last paragraph above is right.


Best,

Stuart Miller








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   Feb > Feb 3

                            Janet Jackson & UFOs

From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 09:19:31 EST
Fwd Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 09:34:15 -0500
Subject: Janet Jackson & UFOs


Okay, so during the most widely broadcast event on the planet, a
saucy-singer gets a boob exposed for a few seconds and the world
is in an uproar.

Talk shows and newscasts and papers and websites are all abuzz
about the incident.

Meanwhile evil warlords are still running rampant, deficits
barrellroll to unprecedented levels, terrorists are running amok
and no one has yet discovered the ancient mystery of 'The
Missing Left Socks'.

Add to that, UFO sightings continue, abduction stories continue
and our government is still stonewalling us on this matter
because it doesn't exist.

Why, just recently scientists discovered a new state of matter
and two, count em', two new elements! That sure made the topic
of the day over the Super Bowl fiasco!

It goes to show you where our attentions are as a culture.
Unless it's got sex and violence we're not concerned with it.

We'll never get to the bottom of the UFO issue until one day a
UFO interrupts television broadcasting during a sporting event
that subsequently leads to a beer truck not making a delivery
because the cigarette truck smashed into it as the driver was
watching an UFO fly overhead with a bikini clad bimbo carried
aloft in it's tractor beam.

When that happens we'll get the due attention of the powers that
be.


Best,

Greg








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              Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Ledger

From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 10:53:23 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 11:34:31 -0500
Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Ledger


>From: Dan Bright <ufo.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 22:09:29 -0000
>Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph

>Listers,

>I made an error in my figures.

<snip>

Hi Dan,

I think someone should go to that area with a compass and nail
down the direction, because the time and the shadow directions
do not indicate the picture as being shot to the east or west
but to a southerly direction.

If we can at least get the direction right there there may be
something to the photograph. The computer in the camera probably
allows for DST conversion automatically.

But mentioned in an earlier text that the data on the camera was
wrong re the exposure and shutter times not agreeing, and now
Bruce Maccabee has noted the same.

Best,

Don Ledger









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              Re: Strange Sighting Puzzles Satellite-Watcher -

From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 10:58:29 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 11:36:50 -0500
Subject: Re: Strange Sighting Puzzles Satellite-Watcher -


>From: Stan Friedman <fsphys.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 19:13:03 -0400
>Subject: Re: Strange Sighting Puzzles Satellite-Watcher

<snip>

>Anybody know how many satellites are actually in orbit as opposed to
>the 30 noted above?


Approximately 33-34,000 including geosynchronous satellites.


Don









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              Re: Colin Andrew's Lightning UFO Photo - Maccabee

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 10:07:59 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 11:41:37 -0500
Subject: Re: Colin Andrew's Lightning UFO Photo - Maccabee


>From: Dave Haith visions.nul
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 22:52:06 -0000
>Subject: Resend: Colin Andrew's Lightning UFO Photo

>I have received the following from Colin Andrews the well known
>crop circle researcher. I wonder if photographic experts on this
>List could comment on what they make of this image?

>Object on film during severe thunderstorm for analysis. Any
>thoughts or ideas are appreciated.

>The object was in a series of long exposure photographs I took
>during a severe thunderstorm on the 22nd July 1983, in Salisbury
>Road, Andover, England facing south east. The object is also
>on the negative.

I sent the following message to Colin:


"The darker circular "blob" with very diffuse edges which is in
two photos would appear to be out of focus.

At at rate, the nearly uniform around the center fuzziness or
diffuseness suggests defocus rather than motion. I would suggest
possible bug near lens and backlit by the sky glow from the
lightning.

The other pictre which shows a horizontal dark, tri-section
"bar" across two lightning bolts is more enigmatic.

But suppose it, too could be some small thing... insect? Bird?
Not too far from the lens (could be far if a large bird in
flight).

Not much one can do with photos such as these that have images
of something no one saw at the time."








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               Re: Laws And Leaks Of Classified Intelligence -

From: Stan Friedman <fsphys.nul>
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 11:25:40 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 11:43:37 -0500
Subject: Re: Laws And Leaks Of Classified Intelligence -


>From: Terry W. Colvin <fortean1.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 19:07:14 -0700
>Subject: Laws And Leaks Of Classified Intelligence

>Laws And Leaks Of Classified Intelligence:
>Costs And Consequences Of Permissive Neglect
>By James B. Bruce

>http://www.cicentre.com/Documents/DOC_Classified_Leaks.htm


I read the Bruce article with great interest and appreciation. A
point I try to make in many discussions about how security works
and the fact that there is a Cosmic Watergate, is the need to
keep technical data about UFOs classified. One can't tell ones
friends without telling ones enemies. They read the press and
listen to radio and TV too.

Thanks Terry.


Stan Friedman









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                      Re: Janet Jackson & UFOs - Kaeser

From: Steven Kaeser <steve.nul>
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 11:04:40 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 11:45:28 -0500
Subject: Re: Janet Jackson & UFOs - Kaeser


>From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 09:19:31 EST
>Subject: Janet Jackson & UFOs

>Okay, so during the most widely broadcast event on the planet, a
>saucy-singer gets a boob exposed for a few seconds and the world
>is in an uproar.

>Talk shows and newscasts and papers and websites are all abuzz
>about the incident.

<snip>

>We'll never get to the bottom of the UFO issue until one day a
>UFO interrupts television broadcasting during a sporting event
>that subsequently leads to a beer truck not making a delivery
>because the cigarette truck smashed into it as the driver was
>watching an UFO fly overhead with a bikini clad bimbo carried
>aloft in it's tractor beam.

>When that happens we'll get the due attention of the powers that
>be.


Maybe not. There is a major uproar over this that may cause all
"live" network feeds to be placed on a short delay. This will
give the networks an opportunity to cut any feed that shows
something that the public shouldn't see. And just think... this
will provide real value to those who spend thousands of dollars
for tickets to these sporting events, because they'll know who
the winner is about 15 seconds before the rest of the
world..... <g>


Steve









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                       Re: SETI Taps The Grid - Warren

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 08:46:29 -0800
Fwd Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 11:48:57 -0500
Subject: Re: SETI Taps The Grid - Warren


>From: Stuart Miller <Stuart.Miller4.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 12:40:16 -0000
>Subject: Re: SETI Taps The Grid

>>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 10:25:42 -0800
>>Subject: Re: SETI Taps The Grid

<snip>

>You cannot, surely Frank, be setting yourself up to contradict
>as authoratative a source as dear old Seth, could you? Seth says
>there's no way of keeping it secret. Why, even the mice that run
>around at the SETI institute would be e-mailing their pals with
>the good news. I agree with you and am a little mystified as to
>how Mr. Shostak could be so naive.

Didn't mean to be so "nitpicky."

>>You state that SETI couldn't be ignored because of their
>>international stature, and being an acclaimed "scientific
>>organization." I say that if those attributes were the only
>>thing necessary to get focus and or attention on the UFO
>>phenomenon, then the "enigma" would have been solved and made
>>public decades ago. History has proven that the caliber of the
>>individual, or the group, is irrelevant to the way the media
>>handles reporting the UFO phenomenon.

>I find the above comment intriguing. I'm sorry to put you on the
>spot, but might you be able to give an example? Specifically
>organisations as opposed to individuals.

Take a look at the original NICAP "Board of Governors" as well
as the "Advisory Panel," not to mention regular members; the
names within, their respective backgrounds and titles were
certainly "upper echelon" and would command the respect from
anyone.

>I can't see this Frank. To me, "caliber" is all, the individual
>is irrelevant, the mass of the organisation is everything. To
>fall in with your argument, the world doesn't even believe
>former astronauts.

>To use a less obvious example to further the point, if the
>American Society for Prevention of Cruelty to Animals announced
>that ET existed, as long as that statement was based on solid
>evidence, they'd be believed, I have no doubt.

>>In the end Stuart, I believe that there are "two ways" that will
>>allow the world as a whole to be enlightened about our visitors;
>>one is that the "power-that-be" allow, it and make an
>>announcement, (or allow someone else to, and support it) or an
>>event takes place on a "grandiose scale" that  can't be denied!

>This is very disappointing Frank. We're meant to be having a
>civilised debate here and all we're doing is agreeing! So where
>do we disagree? I'm alleging that virtually any recognised and
>respected institute, regardless of it's involvement in the ET
>debate, if it makes an announcement that stands up to
>examination, will very likely be believed. You seem to be saying
>that this is not so and that history backs this up. I
>acknowledge your own personal experiences Frank. It is you that
>has screamed into the wind and suffered the brickbats for it.
>But that was "Frank Warren", an individual. What weight did he
>carry with the world's press and other media? Now, if his then
>employers made the same comments.....

I certainly don't mind agreeing Stuart - it has a calming
effect.:^)In the words of who some thought might have been sent
here from another planet himself, "let me be perfectly clear";
If SETI, or any other group, say the AAAS or FAS made a "pro ET"
public announcement with "all the media" in attendance, and they
inturn "broadcast" that announcement with the attention it
would/should deserve, and "there was no opposition to it," then
yes, the world as a whole would accept it. My feeling however;
is the powers-that-be would not allow that to happen, unless
"they were ready for that to happen." Again I say it would not
"unfold" as one might think.

Some might argue that this has "already" happened; remember the
1996 news conference held by NASA where they stunned the world
about the microbes found in a meteorite from Mars - in essence
the biggest news in human history - there is life on other
planets, and right here in our solar system! This, in my
estimation, was "the prime opportunity" for the powers-that-be
to come clean, however; what happened -  there was opposition to
the announcement, and the "loud voice" of "pro-life" in the
meteorite became a whisper, and has since for all intensive
purposes been forgotten.

Personally, I don't believe this was a "happenstance." The
aftermath was certainly manipulated; of course the "powers-that-
be" have had many opportunities to come clean, and done so, only
to change their tune in the aftermath. (Remember it was the
military who announced they had a flying saucer in '47) In any
event Stuart, unfortunately, I have to stick with my original
statement, "there are "two ways" that will allow the world as a
whole to be enlightened about our visitors; one is that the
"powers-that-be" allow, it and make an announcement, (or allow
someone else to, and support it) or an event takes place on a
"grandiose scale" that  can't be denied!

>At the root of all this, I can't help feeling that what in part
>you are saying is, "It's not fair". Of course it isn't. In
>another thread about the frustration of finding good witnesses
>who won't speak out, mention was made of peer pressure and of
>what others might think. I have direct experience of that in my
>own profession. People won't wear certain types of reflective
>clothing that might well save their lives because their friends
>will laugh at them. I interpret that as someone saying, "I would
>rather die (literally) than be seen (dead) in that." There you
>have it. If people can be that stupid and overlook logic because
>of personal insecurities, worries, fear of ridicule etc. then
>why on earth should they believe someone else who makes claims
>that challenge the Human position and imagination?

>Recognised institutions let us off the hook. We slavishly allow
>our need for authority to defer to their status, a status by the
>way that we ourselves have entrusted them with. So if a
>nationally known organisation that occupies itself by rescuing
>pussy cats from trees and rounding up stray dogs says ET exists
>and here's the proof, I feel they will be believed. If the guy
>that climbs the tree to rescue the cat says the same thing,
>probably no chance.

>I admit I paint a black and white picture and the reality has
>countless shades of grey. But we're fighting the Human Condition
>and we won't win. Your last paragraph above is right.

To sum it up - it's not the statement, it's the presentation and
who controls it.


Warmest Regards,

Frank Warren










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                     Re: Review Of Sight Unseen - Miller

From: Stuart Miller <Stuart.Miller4.nul>
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 17:27:53 -0000
Fwd Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 13:54:00 -0500
Subject: Re: Review Of Sight Unseen - Miller


>From: Luis R. Gonzalez <lrgm.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 00:08:05 +0100
>Subject: Re: Review Of 'Sight Unseen' By Hopkins & Rainey

>>From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 15:42:28 +0100
>>Subject: Re: Review Of 'Sight Unseen' By Hopkins & Rainey


Gildas, Luis and List,

With respect gentlemen, I think you are missing the point here.

I am not suggesting that the book should not be subjected to
analytical review, but by the very nature of the subject matter,
it will inevitably fall down on that score. I am sure there are
countless holes in it that can be picked till they bleed.

I regard the book, which I enjoyed enormously, as a very brave
attempt by the authors to take the subject of abduction one
stage further. And in doing so I think Hopkins and Rainey have
taken a massive and admirable gamble with their professional
reputations.

If Hopkins is convinced of the veracity of a witnesses testimony
(and as he revealed, he has various means of checking) and yet
the story falls outside even the parameters of the extremely
broad boundaries that this subject already imposes, then what is
he to do? Given his intellect and experience, he will attempt to
offer some "reasonable" explanation, and that is exactly what he
and Carol have done. All that Carol, on the science side of
things has done is to pull together a number of both existing
and original ideas, as well as solid facts, put them together in
a reasoned and thought out manner, and then say, "This is what
might have happened". She's not saying, "This is definitely what
happened".  It's placed before you gentlemen for your reasoned
and considered opinion. As I read it, they don't want you to
take what they say as fact. These are ideas, intelligently
posited and thoughtfully constructed and laid before the reader
to think about. Of course, it is your choice to reject or
accept.

Hopkins admits that it took him, as I remember, close to two
decades to get his thoughts in order on this. He's aware of the
risk he's taking, and it appears, not without some discomfort. I
for one applaud his and Carol's bravery. I think it is a
landmark book and, as I mentioned in my own review, I think
their ideas will gradually, over time, gain acceptance and
filter through into mainstream thinking. Rip it apart,
gentlemen, by all means, but I will not be looking at the detail
too closely. My preference is to stand back and take a broader
view.


Regards

Stuart Miller








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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   Feb > Feb 4

                          Secrecy News -- 02/03/04

From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood.nul>
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 14:09:48 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 07:07:18 -0500
Subject: Secrecy News -- 02/03/04


SECRECY NEWS
from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy
Volume 2004, Issue No. 13
February 3, 2004


**      DOE INTELLIGENCE BUDGET GOES BLACK
**      GRAHAM: WHITE HOUSE USED SECRECY TO SHIELD SAUDIS
**      DEMOCRATS URGE INDEPENDENT INTEL COMMISSION
**      EXTENSION OF 9-11 COMMISSION PROPOSED
**      SECRET HOLD BLOCKS STUDY OF WWII DETAINEES


DOE INTELLIGENCE BUDGET GOES BLACK

The Department of Energy (DOE) is refusing to disclose the 2005
funding request for its small Office of Intelligence.

The budget for DOE intelligence has been unclassified for as
long as anyone can remember. But the 2005 DOE budget
justification documents, released on February 2, make no mention
of the it.

Why the secrecy? DOE wouldn't say.

"We are not going to discuss this issue at this time," said
Joseph Davis, the principal deputy director of public affairs at
DOE, in response to a query from Secrecy News.

Last year, DOE systematically went through the prior-year budget
documents that are posted on the DOE web site and excised all
reference to intelligence spending (SN, 10/22/03).

But detailed DOE intelligence budget information for 1999
through 2004 is still available here:

http://www.fas.org/irp/agency/doe/budget.html

When it comes to intelligence budget secrecy, the Federal Bureau
of Investigation apparently didn't get the memo: The FBI
disclosed this week that it is requesting $13.4 million in 2005
for its own Office of Intelligence. It also reported proposed
funding levels for the joint Terrorist Threat Integration Center
and the Terrorist Screening Center. Likewise, the State
Department disclosed amounts requested for its Bureau of
Intelligence and Research (INR).

But these are exceptions. Intelligence budget secrecy remains
the rule, though an increasingly disputed one.

"After a dubious conclusion that Iraq was hiding weapons of mass
destruction just before the war in Iraq, critics say there
should be more financial accountability for the government's
spying," according to a story about the "black budget" in USA
Today.

See "Data sought on secret spending" by Richard Benedetto, USA
Today, February 3:

http://www.usatoday.com/usatonline/20040203/5891789s.htm


GRAHAM: WHITE HOUSE USED SECRECY TO SHIELD SAUDIS

Sen. Bob Graham (D-FL), former chairman of the Senate
Intelligence Committee, accused the Bush Administration of
improperly employing national security classification in order
to conceal the extent of Saudi involvement in the September 11
terrorist attacks.

"The Administration misused the classification process to
protect the foreign governments that may have been involved in
9-11," Sen. Graham said in a floor statement February 3.

As evidence of this charge, he revealed new information about
the missing "27 pages" that were withheld from the published
version of the congressional Joint Inquiry Report last year.

He noted that "some of the information censored from these pages
actually appears in other parts of the report," and he went on
to describe three examples of information about Saudi nationals
that had been censored in the 27 missing pages but described
elsewhere in the same report.

"There is no reason for the Bush administration to continue to
shield make-believe allies who are supporting, either directly
or indirectly, terrorists who want to kill Americans," he said.

See Sen. Graham's full statement, with the discussion of the 27
pages highlighted in bold towards the end, here:

http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/2004_cr/graham020204.html


DEMOCRATS URGE INDEPENDENT INTEL COMMISSION

Democratic congressional leaders said this week that a new
independent commission on intelligence and the Iraq war should
not be unilaterally appointed by President Bush.

"While we support the need for an independent commission, this
commission should not be one whose members are appointed by and
report to the White House," they wrote in a February 2 letter to
the President.

"One of the major questions that needs to be addressed is
whether senior Administration officials, including members of
the Cabinet and senior White House officials, misled the
Congress and the public about the nature of the threat from
Iraq. Even some of your own statements and those of Vice
President Cheney need independent scrutiny. A commission
appointed and controlled by the White House will not have the
independence or credibility necessary to investigate these
issues." See:

http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/2004_cr/com020204.pdf


EXTENSION OF 9-11 COMMISSION PROPOSED

A bipartisan bill has been introduced in the Senate to extend
the duration of the National Commission that is investigating
the September 11 attacks until January 2005. See:

http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/2004_cr/s2040.html


SECRET HOLD BLOCKS STUDY OF WWII DETAINEES

A proposal to investigate the conduct of the United States
government towards foreign minorities detained or otherwise
placed in jeopardy during World War II is being blocked in the
United States Senate by an anonymous "hold," complained Sen.
Dianne Feinstein, a sponsor of the measure.

Last year, a bipartisan bill called the "Wartime Treatment Study
Act" was introduced in the Senate (S. 1691). Its declared
purpose is "to establish commissions to review the facts and
circumstances surrounding injustices suffered by European
Americans, European Latin Americans, and Jewish refugees during
World War II."

"S. 1691 would not grant reparations to victims. It would simply
create a commission to review the facts and circumstances of the
U.S. Government's treatment of German Americans, Italian
Americans and other European Americans during World War II,"
Sen. Feinstein said.

"Unfortunately, someone on the other [i.e. Republican] side of
the aisle has placed a hold on the bill. This anonymous person
or persons are unwilling to identify themselves or to explain
the reasons for the hold," Sen. Feinstein said. See her January
28 floor statement here:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/congress/2004/s012804.html


_______________________________________________
Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the
Federation of American Scientists.

To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to
secrecy_news-request.nul
with "subscribe" in the body of the message.

OR email your request to saftergood.nul

Secrecy News is archived at:
http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html

_______________________
Steven Aftergood
Project on Government Secrecy
Federation of American Scientists
web:  www.fas.org/sgp/index.html
email: saftergood.nul
voice: (202) 454-4691







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   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
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                       UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 9 Number 5

From: John Hayes <webmaster.nul>
Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 14:27:28 +0000
Fwd Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 07:09:56 -0500
Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 9 Number 5


Posted on behalf of Joseph Trainor.

<Masinaigan.nul>
==========================

      UFO ROUNDUP
Volume 9, Number 5
February 4, 2004
Editor: Joseph Trainor

E-mail: Masinaigan.nul
Web: http://www.ufoinfo.com/roundup


OPPORTUNITY LANDS
SAFELY ON MARS

      "NASA scientists raved Sunday," January 25, 2004,
over dramatically new views of Mars, transmitted by the
rover Opportunity from within a small crater on the
planet's surface."
      "By coming to rest inside a crater, the golf-cart-
size rover fulfilled mission scientists' dream of a close-
up look at rock layers holding clues to the planet's
geologic past."
      "'We have scored a 300-million-mile interplanetary
hole-in-one,' chief mission scientist Steve Squyres said
at a Sunday afternoon new briefing.  'We are actually
inside a small impact crater.'"
      "Opportunity's flawless landing late Saturday night,"
January 24, 2004, "was followed only hours later by a
batch of photos revealing geological features more diverse
than those encountered by Opportunity's sister rover,
Spirit, three weeks ago."
      "While images from Spirit and previous Mars landers
have offered mundane scenery reminiscent of West Texas,
Opportunity's seemed more like postcards from the Martian
version of a national park."
      "Other sites have been littered with pebbles and
boulders, but Opportunity encountered a landscape with
jagged bedrock foundations jutting through a smooth
reddish-gray soil."
      "'It looks like nothing I've ever seen before in my
life,' Squres said early Sunday as the first images
appeared at the Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena,"
California.  "'I'm just blown away by all this.'"
      "Opportunity's successful landing made NASA two-for-
two in delivering the twin spacecraft making up the $820
million Mars exploration mission."
      All last week, "the rover Opportunity continued to
beam back intriguing postcards and panoramic images of its
eerie new home in a shallow Martian crater."
      "The NASA rover rests in a smooth-bottomed, 6-foot
(1.7-meter) deep crater on the opposite side of Mars from
Spirit, the ailing rover that landed January 3 (2004).
Opportunity is located on Meridani Planum, a plain
(prairie in the USA--J.T.) the size of Oklahoma that is
notable for its layers of hematite, a mineral that on
Earth is usually produced near hot springs."
      "'Pretty spectacular landscape; it's turning out to
be a fascinating place,' said the mission panoramic camera
chief, Jim Bell of Cornell University."
      "NASA's Opportunity rover stretched out its rear
wheels Thursday," January29, 2004, "in preparation for
rolling onto the surface of Mars.  Except for its robotic
arm, Opportunity finished unfolding and standing up from
its landing position and was ready to travel the final 10
feet (3 meters) from its lander to the surface of Mars."
      "Engineers consider roll-off the riskiest maneuver of
the surface portion of each mission."
      "The rover Opportunity took its first roll on Martian
soil early Saturday morning," January 31, 2004, "and
scientists offered the most tantalizing evidence so far
that the landing site once lay in liquid water."
      "While ice still exists near the poles, most of Mars,
including the equatorial region where the Opportunity set
down, is devoid of water, liquid or frozen.  But some
scientists believe Mars was warm and wet early in its
history and may have possessed an environment where life
could have arisen."
      "At a news conference Saturday at NASA's Jet
Propulsion Laboratory, Dr. Philip Christensen, a professor
of geological sciences at Arizona State University,
confirmed that an instrument on the Opportunity had
detected the iron oxide hematite in the dark pebbles and
gravel that dot the landing site."
      "Furthermore, Dr. Christensen, the lead scientist for
the instrument, said, 'I think the preliminary evidence is
consistent with hematite forming at low temperatures in
chemical reactions with water."
      "The instrument, known as the mini-thermal emission
spectrometer looks at infrared light radiated from the
rocks and soils."
      Opportunity's landing site in Meridani Planum is
about 6,600 miles (10,560 kilometers) from Spirit's
landing site, Gusev Crater.  (See the Duluth, Minn. News-
Tribune for January 26, 2004, "Second Mars rover scores
'hole in one,' pages 1A and 5A; and for February 1, 2004,
"Rover finds further hints of Mars' moist history," page
5A.  Also USA Today for January 27, 2004, "Mars crater is
a land of Opportunity," page 13A and for January 30, 2004,
"Opportunity prepares for jaunt on Mars," page 3A.)


AILING SPIRIT GETS MEDICAL
CARE...FROM EARTH!

      On Thursday, January 29, 2004, NASA "said
Opportunity's twin, Spirit, 'will be perfect again' after
repairs of crippling software problems."
      "Engineers continued to make progress on the Spirit
rover, which has been sidelined for more than a week" in
Gusev Crater.  They were preparing to wipe its memory
clean of science and engineering files that have stymied
its software, said Jennifer Trosper," Spirit's mission
manager.
      "Spirit resumed acquiring data Thursday, using its
panoramic camera to focus on two rocks scientists have
called Cake and Blanco."
      "Spirit landed in Gusev Crater, a 95-mile (152-
kilometer) depression that once may have contained a
lake."
      The rover's "failure to follow orders from Earth was
beginning to look like a glitch familiar to many earthly
computer users...Somebody forgot to dump all those old
files--leaving an electronic clutter so confusing that at
one point the rover began reporting data it thought it had
gathered on Mars in 2053."
(Editor's Comment:  Most intriguing!  Did Spirit pass
through a time warp that took it fifty years into the
future?)
      "Mission manager Jennifer Trosper says there is
growing conviction that Spirit's erratic behavior--at
times verging on outright disobedience to orders from
mission control--was the result of electronic baggage left
over from its 300-million-mile journey through space."
      "Once Spirit was safely on Martian soil, most of the
'cruise files' stored in its computer memory were of no
real value for surface operations."
      "Engineers were then horrified to find that the
rover's flash memory, for reasons unknown, had retained
hundreds of files containing flight data and was still
juggling them along with the daily flood of new data from
its activities in Mars' Gusev Crater."
      "'We're going to do a lot more debugging today, but
we're getting ready to delete a large number of cruise
files on Spirit,' Trosper said, 'And in the future, we are
going to be much more conscious of the limitations.'"
(See USA Today for January 30, 2004, "Opportunity prepares
for jaunt on Mars," page 3A; and the Duluth, Minn. News-
Tribune for January 27, 2004, "Electronic clutter confuses
Mars rover," page 6A.


MYSTERY VAN SEEN BY
MANY IN ARIZONA

      The silver-grey UFO Roundup mystery van was seen and
photographed by several people in northern Arizona last
week.
      Ufologist Mike Fortson reported, "I've been reading
about the van for some time now, so I was really floored
when my customer told me she saw it Saturday (January 24,
2004) in Prescott Valley, Arizona (population 23,535).
And it scared the living hell out of her!"
      The silver-grey van, which carries the Web site
address of UFO Roundup's parent site, UFO INFO, has been
seen in various states of the USA since 1998, when it
first appeared in Warsaw, Indiana.  The van is not the
property of either UFO INFO webmaster John Hayes or UFO
Roundup editor Joseph Trainor.  At present, the owner and
operator of the mystery van is unknown.
      Mike Fortson is a regional sales manager who lives in
Gilbert, Arizona (population 109,697), a city just
southeast of Phoenix.  He added, "My customer has known me
for 12 years.  She knows I'm quite active in UFOs and the
weird stuff that goes on in northern Arizona.  So she felt
comfortable telling me.  She was placing an order when she
told me what she saw."
      "They were pulling out of the Wal-Mart parking lot"
in Prescott Valley "and the van immediately drew their
attention.  It was one of those extended vans, silver
grey, and had U.S. government markings, and the license
plate was from Georgia.  The top of the van was covered
with small satellite dishes.  And there were many radio
antennae, as well."
      "There were two occupants in the front seat.  Both
were in military uniform.  There were no windows on the
side of the van other than the driver and passenger
(seats).  The van had the markings of Delta Force."
      Also last week, ufologist Bill Hamilton of Arizona
MUFON contacted UFO Roundup and reported, "Your fancy van
advertising your website was spotted and photographed in
Bagdad, Arizona (population 1,578)," a small town at the
end of Highway 96 in the Aquarius Mountains, located about
40 miles (64 kilometers) west of Prescott Valley.
      "If not yours, you are getting free advertising,"
Bill added, "I have been sent half a dozen pics
(photographs of the van) in all."

[See website bulletin for photos]

      Arizona MUFON is investigating the sightings and
trying to learn the identity of the van's owner/operator.
(Email Form Reports)


ALIEN SPOTTED BY THREE
IN MANCHESTER, INDIANA

      A tall, extremely thin, humanoid alien was spotted on
North Hagen Road in Manchester, Indiana on Saturday,
January 24, 2004, at 7:30 p.m.
      According to ufologist Kenny Young, "a 17-year-old
motorist traveling about 10 miles (16 kilometers) north of
Aurora, Indiana (population 3,965) at night claims to have
encountered an unusual 'figure' in the roadway."
      "The witness lives in Manchester, Ind. and is a
senior at South Dearborn High School.  He has one sister
enrolled in college and lives at home with his mother and
father," Kenny reported.
      "While driving his black, two-door 1999 Chevrolet
Cavalier southbound along North Hagen Road, a 'figure' was
spotted in the headlights of the automobile as it was
crouched down near a puddle of water.  From the driver's
perspective, the 'figure' was spotted out of the
windshield on the right side of the car."
      "'I passed it and looked in the rear-view mirror,' he
said."
      "After passing the frail-looking figure, the driver
looked into his rear-view mirror and again observed--
illuminated by the tail lights of his car--what he
described as a tall, abnormal figure that moved strangely
with pointed joints (elbows, knees and heels--J.T.) that
'buckled out.'  He estimated that the 'figure' stood about
6 feet, 7 inches (2 meters) tall."
      "'I don't know what it was,' he said, 'It had
protruding joints and moved very strangely.'"
      "The driver said he was able to ascertain (that) the
figure, alleged to be dark gray or black and 'pencil
thin,' stood up and took several steps toward the woods
along the roadside."
      "The 'figure' definitely walked on two legs and was
thought, somehow, to be male, although no clothing was
observed.  No face or eyes could be seen, but the witness
had the impression that the 'figure' was looking straight
at him."
      "The driver continued on for a small distance after
passing the figure and finally put on his brakes, coming
to a stop at an estimated 'two-minute' walking distance
from the location of the sighting.  He looked back to
further observe the entity."
      "At this point, a second car came into view,"
approaching from the south, "and then reached the spot on
the road where the 'figure' was thought to be.  The 17-
year-old motorist reportedly watched closely" as the
second car swerved at that spot.  "Then the car turned
around and pulled up beside him on the grass."
      "An elderly couple was in the car, both of them in
their late 60s or early 70s.  The (male) driver, who wore
glasses, said, 'Boy, did you see something back there?
I'll tell you right now--that was no person.'"
      "'It was no person,'" the female in the front
passenger seat said, "'It was no man.'"
      "The elderly couple were reportedly 'spooked' but
offered to follow the first witness down North Hagen Road
to his destination at a friend's house."  There "he called
home to tell his mother of the encounter, advising her to
lock her doors," and then called his uncle.
      Kenny Young interviewed the uncle, Jerry Schedel, who
"traveled to the area with his wife some 90 minutes later
but did not see anything."
      "'I have no explanation for what that thing was,'
Schedel said, 'I think it must have been some type of
alien.'"
      Manchester, Ind. is on Route 48 in Dearborn County,
about 50 miles (80 kilometers) southeast of Columbus.
(Many thanks to Kenny Young for this news story.)


CHUPACABRA SPOOKS BUS
DRIVERS IN CENTRAL CHILE

      "Juan Berrios, a 40-year-old (bus) driver and old-
fashioned Chilean (Roman) Catholic has never driven his
vehicle again since his run-in with the monster."
      "'He reached the truck stop in a state.  His legs
trembled,' said one of his co-workers, half-jokingly, at
the same time he made the Sign of the Cross--just in
case."
      "Until two weeks ago, the barrio Santa Filomena was
nothing more than a long and lonely alleyway in the
village of Viluco in Buin," a city located 50 miles (80
kilometers) south of Santiago, the capital of Chile,
"where the peace was disturbed only by vehicles driving
past it at high speed."
      "The town is beginning to shake off its lethargy, not
because of the arrival of unstoppable modernity but
because of the appearance of an indescribably bizarre
creature that hops across the streets with some small
wounded animal in its maw and which has been seen by the
drivers on the Buin-Maipo route, who decided to speak
after experiencing real fear."
      "On (Monday) January 5 (2004) at 5:15 a.m., Berrios
was driving through Santa Filomena toward the Las
Vertientes (bus) terminal when he suddenly noticed a
strange figure in the middle of the road 70 meters (231
feet) away.  He rubbed his eyes and kept going.  Some five
meters (16 feet) away, the figure reappeared, and the
shock of the horrible sight almost caused him to lose
control of the vehicle."
      "'I have never seen anything like.  It had something
like a dog bleeding in its muzzle, and it lost itself in
the bushes in a single leap,' he told his co-workers
minutes later.  He was believed, just from the expression
of indescribable panic on his face."
      "After his second road trip, he was intercepted by
another driver, Juan Maulan, who took him aside and asked
him to describe the monster.  After a few minutes, Maulan
confessed, 'Yes, it's the same one.'"
      "It was a bipedal animal standing 1.5 meters (4 feet,
6 inches) tall, with hind legs like those of a kangaroo,
small curved hands (forepaws) ending in talons, a sharp
mane (of spines) like that of a porcupine running along
its back, a tail with a rattle, a muzzle like that of a
fierce wolf, several rows of teeth and voracious red
eyes."
      "'It jumps a lot,' said Maulan, 'It can easily jump 5
meters (16 feet).'"
      "He had kept quiet out of fear of being dubbed the
local madman.  'I almost died of fright.  I had to go out
in the morning just like Berrios, when I suddenly saw this
thing in the middle of the road.  I slowed down and the
beast stared at me.  It took some time to look me up and
down and then jumped aside,' he recalled very calmly, now
certain that the beast exists.  Just to give the thing a
name, he says it could well be the Chupacabra."
      "'I think it's a hoax.  I've been living here 35
years, and the nearest thing to monsters I've seen are old
men riding bicycles,' said Rosa Marileo, widow of Roberto
Nancur and mother of five children.  'This has been
circulating for a long time.  Everyone says that when the
monster comes out, it does so in the morning, and I
wouldn't dream of walking around at that time because this
street is pitch black,' she added, bringing the
conversation to a close."
      "At Cerro Cullipeumo (mountain) on the border of Las
Vertientes in Buin, some abandoned gold mines from the
1950s could prove to be the lair of the 'Viluco Monster,'
a singular beast with a kangaroo-shaped body and a wolf's
muzzle that terrorizes local farmers and has a remarkable
resemblance to the legendary Chupacabra."
      "'El Dinamita' and 'El Fena,' assistants at the Buin-
Maipo bus line, claim two drivers came across the creature
in lonely Santa Filomena and told (the newspaper) La
Cuarta that they have been hearing stories from old-timers
about a monstrous beast living in the forgotten gold
mines."
      "'As soon as we're ready, we'll take a look.  The
groundskeepers, old men who've worked there all their
lives, always say that strange stuff goes on in that
mountain.  They even say that those who poke their noses
in too deeply never come back,' said 'El Dinamita,' who
was itching to venture into the abandoned mines."
      "Anibal Montes, also known as 'El Viejo Choclera,'
confirmed through stories told by Don Ramon, eldest of the
group, that mystery has long surrounded Cerro Cullipeumo.
'Shadows can be seen running uphill, vanishing into the
mine and disappearing.  But this is nothing new.  It's
been going on for many years.'"  (See the Chilean
newspaper La Cuarta for January 29, 2004, "Kangaroo-legged
monster threatens Buin," and for January 30, 2004, "Viluco
Monster may hide in abandoned mine."  Muchas gracias a
Scott Corrales y Liliana Nunez para estos articulos de
diario.)
(Editor's Comment: Hmmmm, this looks like a job for...Cave
Carson!)


UFO SIGHTINGS SURGE
IN CENTRAL CHILE

      "In January (2004) alone, over 10 UFO sightings have
been reported in San Jose de Maipo," south of Santiago de
Chile, not far from Buin, the site of the Chupacabra
encounters.
      "No one knows why they appear, but the fact is that
strange lights cross the area (of the Rio Maipo--J.T.)
regularly, to the extent that the residents of Cajon del
Maipo consider it a normal occurrence."
      "So frequent are the sightings of this phenomenon
over the skies of Cajon del Maipo that local residents
consider it a part of their daily routine."
      "Oscar Farias, who lives in Las Vertientes, said both
he and his wife, Maritza Valero, have repeatedly seen UFOs
in the foothills of the Cordillera."
      "'We've seen truly remarkable spheres and flying
saucers,' Oscar said, 'Only two weeks ago, with my cousin
and around 8 a.m., we saw a silver saucer in the El Alto
del Canelo sector, moving at an average speed and losing
itself in the west.'"
      "Patricia Aros, 37, works for a service corporation
and claims having seen strange lights in the higher
reaches of Cajon del Maipo on a regular basis.  'It's
common to see large and small lights moving over the
area,' she said, 'I no longer fear them.  We aren't alone
in this immense universe, and if these otherworldly beings
intended to harm us, they would've done so already.  I
think we should be eventually prepared for what's going to
happen in the future.  Who knows if tomorrow human
civilization will establish contact with beings from other
worlds.'"
      "Even San Jose de Maipo's mayor, Miguel Marquez
Olivarez, witnessed a 'filmworthy' close encounter when he
was literally assaulted by a UFO."
      "'On this occasion, I was in the Del Ingenio sector,
driving my pickup truck with my family and a group of
friends (as passengers--J.T.), when we suddenly saw an
oval-shaped vehicle issuing multi-hued lights of great
intensity as it hovered over the village.  Suddenly, in a
matter of seconds, the strange object took off and hovered
above us, killing my truck's engine.  It lit up a radius
of 4 kilometers (2.4 miles) with an intense white light
which could be seen as far as the town of San Gabriel.'"
      "'The experience was truly intense even though it
lasted no more than a minute,'" Marquez said, "'Because,
from one moment to another, the light shut itself off, and
the phenomenon vanished.'"  (Muchas gracias a Scott
Corrales para esas noticias.)


WHITE UFO HOVERS OVER
FORTALEZA, BRAZIL

      On Tuesday, December 16, 2003, at 11 p.m., Daniel D.
was outdoors in the city of Fortaleza, in Ceara state,
Brazil when "I spotted a UFO sitting stationary in the
southwestern sky."
      "It was a small oblong white object seen as clouds
passed by.  It did not move, and it did not look or behave
like a kite.  It remained long enough for me to go
upstairs, get my Kodak 35mm camera, come downstairs and
snap a photograph.  I would estimate that it was 45
degrees above the southwestern horizon.  I did not see it
approach or depart.  It appeared in the clear portion of
the night sky.  Then the next cloud passed, and it was
gone."
      Fortaleza is on Brazil's Atlantic Ocean coast,
located about 1,000 kilometers (600 miles) northeast of
Brasilia, the national capital.  (Email Form Report)


WOMAN PHOTOGRAPHS
A UFO IN CANNES

      On Monday, January 15, 2004, at 8:55 a.m., Fabrice M.
reported, "I had coffee on my terrace before going to
work" in Cannes, a seaport city in the department Alpes
Maritimes in southern France.  "I often look up at the
sky.  Moreover, I had viewed things in the past, but I had
no camera."
      This time was different.  "As soon as I saw the
strange light hovering in the sky, I took my digital
camera, a Nikon Coolpix 5700 with an 8X zoom, and took
some pictures of what I saw.  Then the brilliant shape
left in the reverse direction, at a slow speed.  There
were no clouds where the UFO was.  On the other hand,
there were clouds over the (Mediterranean) sea, and some
sunbeams managed to pass through these clouds.  The UFO
had an oval shape, and it was about 3 kilometers (2 miles)
away, I think."

{See website bulletin for photos]

      Cannes is 200 kilometers (120 miles) east of
Marseilles.  (Merci beaucoup a Robert Fischer pour ces
nouvelles de OVNI.)


UFO PHOTOGRAPHED NEAR
MELBOURNE, AUSTRALIA

      "A mysterious photograph has sparked a UFO frenzy in
the city's (Melbourne, capital of Victoria state,
Australia) north."
      "Both believers and sceptics are scratching their
heads over a picture, snapped in Beveridge, Vic. by a
council officer last week."
      "Whittlesea Council is considering informing NASA and
has already sent the image to Australian authorities."
      "The photographer, Whittlesea Council traffic
engineer Roland Rozario, said he could not explain the
digital photo, which shows a small round object passing
through the top right side of the frame."
      "Mr. Rozario said he and a colleague were doing a
routine check of a railway level crossing about 2 p.m. on
Thursday, January 15 (2004)."
      "'We didn't see or hear anything when we were there,'
he said, 'I took about 10 to 12 photos, looking east and
west.'"
      "'Then I came back to the office, downloaded the
images and noticed an object in one photo.'"
      "'I still don't know what it is.  I passed it around
the office, and people don't know what it was.  A few said
it didn't look like a bird, an aircraft or even a bug in
front of the camera.'"
      "Mr. Rozario said a train passed through the crossing
just seconds after the photograph was taken and believes a
passenger may have spotted something in the sky."
      "Whittlesea Council's communications officer, Jim
Linton, sent the image to the Chief Defence Scientist,
(Australia's) Defence Science and Technology Organisation
and the Civil Aviation Authority."
      "Weather bureau senior forecaster Peter Blake said
the photograph did not look like anything meteorological."
      "'It almost looks like a plane from the rear.  It
certainly isn't a weather balloon,' Mr. Blake said."
      "Local flying saucer experts also struggled to
explain the photograph."
      "Victorian UFO Research scientific director Bernard
Wilson said the group needed more information in order to
make a full assessment."
      "'There are some interesting aspects to the photo.
The sun reflections from the object and the rails appear
to be fairly consistent,' he said, 'There appears to be
some motion blur to the left of the image which might
indicate a fast moving object.'"
      "But the Australian UFO Research Network (AUFORN)
Victoria director George Simpson said a digital photograph
was not considered acceptable evidence of a flying
saucer."
      "'They cannot be verified.  They are too easily
manipulated on the computer, and you don't have a
negative,' he said."
      "Mr. Simpson said he had not heard of any other
sighting in Melbourne's north.  But he said a local member
will investigate the sighting for his group."  (See the
Australian newspaper Herald-Sun of Melbourne for January
24, 2004.  Many thanks to Jim Hickman and Mary Lou Jones-
Drown for this newspaper article.)


READER FEEDBACK:

IS HITLER IN A LONG SOLAR ORBIT?

      Concerning rumors of an Antarctic Reich (See UFO
Roundup, volume 9, number 3, "1944: Secrets of the
Antarctic Reich," page 8), David Grey of Australia writes,
"What I think they did is put Hitler and Eva (Braun) on a
near-light-speed craft, accelerating them to 99.9 percent
of the speed of light, and then orbiting our solar system
for the appropriate time until they return to their
underground base in Antarctica."
      "Surely, no body of the most-hated Dictator?  Surely
they must have done experiments on how long it would take
to burn (with petrol--D.G.) two bodies to a point where
they could no longer be recognized.  I have to wonder if
repatriating Hitler and his henchmen was done for
scientists and spies is not beyond question.  Mr. Bush's
grandfather will have to explain a lot."
      "Thanks for your report.  Strangely, I saw with my
girlfriend two very bright 'stars' around late December
(2003).  They were already way high up and tracing a large
erratic arc (not moving as a satellite or meteorite--D.G.)
The speed and brightness ruled out any type of plane.  Two
of them were about an outstretched hand in the sky.  I
live in Melbourne and have never seen anything I could
call a UFO before.  The two objects had no other
description than 'unidentified.'"
      "Anyway, something is going on up there.
Intervention in our planet's affairs seems to have been
common enough in our past.  Now we need it in a positive
manner.  To my end, the UFO 'people' might as well make
themselves known, or the planet will be f***ed anyway."
      "Have a good New Year.  I hope this is the Big One."


MYTH OF THE MASONIC PILLARS

      Concerning the story on Al-Qaeda and Dr. Ayman al-
Zawahiri (See UFO Roundup, volume 9, number 4, "February
2: Zawahiri's day of destiny?" page 16), Lee Graves of
Montana wrote, "I have been a Mason for over 30 years, and
Grand Historian of the Grand Lodge of Masons in Montana
seven years, and this is the absolute first I have ever
heard of Jachin and Boaz stemming from the twin pillars of
Atlantis."
      "All Masonic lodges have the two pillars, 'the one on
the right hand and the other on the left, called Jachin
and Boaz.'  And they represent the pillars in the temple
of King Solomon.  In lodges, they are usually placed in
front of the Senior Warden's station, in the west."
      "I do find it interesting that the Twin Towers of New
York have any Masonic connotations for anyone.  And who is
Hoagland, by the way?  But, of course, one can read
anything into anything one chooses."
      "Perhaps God is a Freemason, too, since he created
the constellation Gemini, or the Twins."
      "Honestly, let's get serious.  Freemasonry has no
more of an interest by Al-Qaeda than the man in the moon."
      "I hope this clarifies the Pillars myth."


 From the UFO Files...

1919: DANCE OF THE
           ASSASSIN

      Tuesday, February 21, 1919, dawned cold and grey in
Munich, with the threat of snow.  The World War One
armistice was exactly 100 days old, and this south German
city, capital of the state of Bayern (Bavaria), continued
to be wracked by food shortages, political rioting and
postwar unrest.
      "On the morning of the twenty-first a young officer
named Anton von Arco-Valley had himself awakened early by
the chambermaid of his pension (bed-and-breakfast inn in
the USA--J.T.)  He instructed her to lay out the warm
clothing while he bathed, because, he said, 'it will
probably be cold in the jail cell.'"
      "She did not take the remark seriously.  Anton Arco-
Valley was a handsome young man and a Count; he frequently
made scathing remarks about the unsatisfactory state of
affairs in Munich and his intention to do something about
it.  Walburga Kaestele, the maid, did not believe that so
charming a youth as Count Anton, known as 'Toni,' actually
intended to harm anyone.  But he did."
      Born in 1897, the year of worldwide sightings of UFOs
(then called airships--J.T.), Anton's feelings for Germany
"were perhaps all the more intense because both King and
Fatherland were adoptive, his birthplace having been
Austria."  At age 18, he had enlisted in the 1st Bavarian
Cavalry Regiment, served on the Eastern Front in World War
I, became a lieutenant "and was badly wounded and
decorated."
      For Anton, the end of the war had been traumatic.  He
had been part of the victorious German army that had
imposed harsh peace terms on Lenin's Russia at Brest-
Litovsk.  But then, on November 7, 1918, a socialist
revolution toppled the Bavarian state government.  Two
days later, Kaiser Wilhelm abdicated and fled to the
Netherlands.  Two days after that, the new German
government surrendered to the Allies at Compiegne in
France.
      During the train ride home from Kiev, Anton read the
proclamation from Kurt Eisner, the new Minister-President
(governor) of Bavaria and leader of the anti-war
Independent Socialists.  The words made his blood boil.
      "Soldiers, demobilization has not yet begun...The
officers come back to you not as your superiors but as
soldiers who wish to work for the common good of our
people.  You are not obliged to salute them on or off
duty...The soldiers' soviet of Munich reminds officers at
all times to remain aware of the new spirit of the Free
People's State of Bavaria, to remove shoulder straps, to
recognize a fait accompli and work as hard for it as have
the soldiers since their victorious revolution..."
      What was this "new spirit?"  One of its leaders,
Ernst Toller, described it as "the revolution of love."
The revolution's "leaders, many of them Jewish, were
pacifist intellectuals and literati, most notable among
them Kurt Eisner, a fearful-looking gnome of a man with a
mop of unkempt shoulder-length hair, a wild and ragged red
beard, and myopic eyes behind pince-nez."
      Ignoring the proclamation, Anton stepped down from
the train in full uniform.  He was immediately attacked by
a group of Spartacist soldiers.  They yanked off his
shoulder straps, insignia and medals, tearing his feldgrau
greatcoat.
      Holed up at the pension, Anton brooded about the war
and seethed with indignation.  He wanted revenge for his
humiliation at the train station, and so he found his way
to the Hotel Vier Jahreszeiten (Translated: Four Seasons
Hotel) and began attending the Saturday meetings of the
Thule Gesellschaft (Thule Society).
      Thule was the brainchild of Adam Rudolf Glauer (1875-
1945), a railroad engineer's son from Hoyerswerda.  An
enthusiastic disciple of Madame Blavatsky, Adam changed
his name to Rudolf von Sebottensdorff, promoted himself to
freiherr (baron) and became an accomplished astrologer and
occultist.  For years he had lived in Turkey, where "he
had been able to spend time reading Oriental philosophy
and Theosophical writings, as well as engaging in Sufi
meditation."
      "He acknowledged that he had been a Knight of the
Masonic Order of Contantine" in Istanbul.  "Turkish
Freemasonry, it seemed, had kept the ancient Aryan wisdom
intact.  'It must be shown,' said Sebottendorff, 'that
Oriental Freemasonry still retains faithfully even today
the ancient teachings of wisdom forgotten by modern
Freemasonry, whose Constitution of 1717 was a departure
from the true way.'"
      In no time at all, Thule became a magnet for New
Agers, mystics, clairvoyants, disciples of Guido von List,
adepts of Jorg Lanz von Liebenfels' Order of the New
Templars, curiosity-seekers, right-wingers and groupies.
The Society on its way up, having just moved from a cellar
on the Zweigstrasse to the ballroom of the posh Four
Seasons Hotel, with its seating for 300.  "Grand Master"
Sebottendorff was the hottest thing since Annie Besant.
      Listening to Sebottendorff speak..."We don't
acknowledge the brotherhood of people, only the blood
brotherhood.  We want the freedom not of herds but of
duty.  We hate the propaganda of equality.  Struggle is
the father of all things.  Equality is death...", Count
Anton Arco auf Valley, age 22, felt that he had come home.
He introduced himself to the "baron" and asked to join.
      "We test for race purity," Sebottendorff explained,
"The one-year probationary period is only the first level
in the new member's initiation.  He must take a
ritualistic vow of absolute obedience and loyalty to the
Master of the Lodge.  Symbolically, this signifies the
return of the lost Aryan to the German family."
      Uh-oh...problem!  Way back in 1841, Anton's mother's
father had married a Jewish woman.  Anton flunked the
"racial purity" test.  Membership denied.
      Now it's a question of who does Anton hate more--
Sebottendorff or Kurt Eisner.
"...rejected by the Thule Society as racially unfit.  Not
quite thoroughbred by the standards he most admired, not
fully accepted where he most passionately wished to
belong, Count Anton Arco-Valley resolved to prove himself
the genuine article in the eyes of everyone, and his own."
      On February 21, 1919, "freshly bathed and warmly
clothed, he telephoned the Diet (Bavarian parliament
building)" and, posing as a newspaper reporter, asked what
time Eisner was expected to arrive.  The Minister-
President would arrive at 10 a.m. to address the assembly,
he was told, and afterward there would be a press
conference.
      Strolling through Munich, Anton spied one of Thule's
political handbills nailed to a telephone pole.  He
recognized it as the work of Dietrich Eckart, Thule's
morphine-addicted "minister of information."  Eckart had
stolen the headline right out of Schiller's Wilhelm Tell.
It read, "Mach hurtig, Landvogt, deine Uhr ist
abgelaufen."
(Translated: "Make haste, Governor, your time has run
out.")
      Continuing on his journey, Anton thought about all
the strange people he'd met at Thule.  There was Eckart,
of course, and Dr. George Gaubatz, president of Bavaria's
Audubon Society, never without his gold swastika jewelry,
and Johannes Hering, leader of the Pan-Germans, and Anton
Drexler, the labor activist who was kicked out of the
railroad workers' union and went on to found his own
Deutsches Arbeiterspartei (Translated: German Workers'
Party).  Sebottendorff let the DAP hang around the Four
Seasons Hotel because Drexler had no money to rent a hall
of his own.
      "At 9:45, Arco-Valley stationed himself in a doorway
on the Promenade Platz where he knew the Minister-
President would pass on his way to the Diet.  He took the
safety catch off the revolver in his right-hand overcoat
pocket, and waited."
      Let Sebottendorff cast his runes and play with his
zodiac, Anton thought, I'm going to do what needs to be
done.
      "Toward 10 o'clock Eisner emerged from the Foreign
Ministry on the Promenade Platz and began walking toward
the Diet building in the nearby Pranner Strasse.  His
months in office had done nothing to improve his
appearance.  With his floppy black hat and flagrantly
unkempt beard, he still looked like the eternal Bohemian
heading for a favorite cafe, rather than a Minister-
President on his way" to make a major speech.  "For
escort, he was accompanied only by a sailor and by his
secretary, the journalist Felix Fechenbach.  About forty
people were loitering around the square, some of them
Spartacist followers of Eisner."
      "Spotting his quarry, Arco-Valley drew his revolver
and darted from the doorway.  He closed in swiftly from
behind and fired two shots," crying, "Vive la boheme!"
(Editor's Note:  This was the phrase uttered by the French
anarchist Ravachole in 1894.  By the way, Ravachole has a
walk-on in Nicole Kidman's movie Moulin Rouge.  He's the
weird-beard musician who throws a bomb at the stage in the
climax.  Listen closely and you'll hear his trademark
phrase.)
      "One bullet entered Eisner's brain, the other
piercing his lungs through the back.  He sank to the
pavement and died on the spot in a pool of blood."
      "The sailor wheeled and began firing at Arco-Valley
hitting him where he stood and four more times as he lay
on the sidewalk.  Some of the bystanders who came swarming
to the scene began kicking him in the face and body, and
trampling him.  They meant to kill him, and thought they
had, but he survived."
      Not quite so fortunate were Major von Jahreiss and a
delegate named Osel, who died half an hour later in the
"Tuesday Morning Massacre."
      Thule member Walter Nauhaus sought out Sebottendorff
and told him about the killings, adding, "This city has
gone crazy!"  Sebottendorff was dumbfounded, but Johannes
Hering had an idea.  He began distributing firearms from
his hidden stash to Thule members.  As an afterthought, he
handed them out to Drexler's DAP people, too.
      So it was that the DAP's newest member, Adolf Hitler,
received a sawed-off KAR-98 rifle, a weapon that saved his
life in the weeks to come.
      Meanwhile, Anton lay in hospital, moaning, "Let me
die."  The surgeon paid him no heed and began extracting
the bullet fragments.
      The aftermath was a Bavarian version of the O.J.
Simpson trial.  Anton stood unrepentant in the dock.
"During the war, I shot Bolshevik Jews in the Ukraine, and
I was given a medal.  I shoot one here, and suddenly I'm a
bum.  Where is the justice in that?  Kurt Eisner was the
grave-digger of the Fatherland, and I'm glad he's dead.  I
despised and hated him from my heart.  Yes, I shot and
killed that Elder of Zion.  Go thou and do likewise."
      The court swiftly returned a verdict of guilty.  The
sentence was death.
      Anton's plight became a cause celebre on the right.
One of his most vehement supporters was 19-year-old
Heinrich Himmler, who urged his father "to join the
Bayerische Volkspartei" and rescue Anton "before it's too
late."
      Dr. Gebhard Himmler the same opinion as the
Munchener-Augsburger Abendzeitung (newspaper), which
denounced Anton for "turning the Fatherland into Serbia."
      Young Himmler confided his rescue plan to his girl
friend, Maria "Maja" Loritz.  He was going to hop on his
motorcycle and ride up the steps of Munich's Landhaus,
with his shotgun blazing.  Sort of like Arnold
Schwarzenegger in Terminator 2: Judgement Day.
      Not surprisingly, Maja dumped Heini and found another
boyfriend.
      Then the courts agreed to hear Anton's appeal.  To
the assassin's surprise, his sentence was commuted to life
imprisonment.  In 1920, he entered the prison at Landsberg
am Lech.
      Four years later, he was ousted from his private cell
by the newest "celebrity prisoner," the leader of the
abortive "Beer Hall Putsch"...Adolf Hitler.
      Freed on parole in the early 1930s, Anton entered
obscurity.  But only for a short while.  In June 1934, he
was arrested by none other than Heinrich Himmler, the very
man who had plotted to rescue him 14 years earlier.
      "According to Himmler the reason was that the Count
had 'on his own admission planned a coup against the Reich
Chancellor, Adolf Hitler.'"
      Anton was taken to Dachau, where he remained a
prisoner until he was freed by the U.S. Army in March
1945.
      However, he did not enjoy his freedom for very long.
A few weeks later, while walking along a roadside in
Bavaria, Anton was struck by a speeding U.S. Army jeep.
He died in a nearby hospital at the age of 48.
      The day Anton donned his overcoat, put a revolver in
the right-hand pocket, and set out for the Promenade
Platz, the Armistice was 100 days old.  Nobody knew it at
the time, but, at 10 a.m. on February 21, 1919, Count
Anton von Arco auf Valley fired the first shots of World
War II.  (See the books The Weimar Chronicle by Alex de
Jonge, Paddington Press Ltd., London, 1978, pages 50 and
51; Munich 1923: The Story of Hitler's First Grab for
Power by John Dornberg, Harper and Row, New York, N.Y.,
1982, pages 38 and 39; Putsch! How Hitler Made Revolution
by Richard Hanser, Peter H. Wyden Inc., New York, N.Y.,
1970, pages 160 to 163; The Nazis and the Occult by Dusty
Sklar, Dorset Press, New York, N.Y., 1977, pages 27 to 39;
and Unholy Alliance by Peter Levenda, Continuum Books, New
York, N.Y., second edition 2002, pages 46, 47 and 73 to
79.)
(Editor's Comment:  We once had a case like this in the
USA.  On August 2, 1876, Jack McCall rushed into the
Pioneer Saloon No. 10 in Deadwood, South Dakota and shot
James Butler Hickock, better known as "Wild Bill Hickock,"
in the back of the head while he was playing poker.  The
only difference is, when Jack squeezed the trigger, he
yelled, "You son of a bitch!" not "Vive la boheme!"
McCall wasn't considered a hero for shooting Wild Bill
Hickock--quite the opposite, in fact.  You can read all
about l'affaire Deadwood in that great book by Loren D.
Estleman, Aces and Eights.)

      Well, that's it for this week.  Join us in seven days
for more UFO, Fortean and paranormal news from around the
planet Earth, brought to you by "the paper that goes home-
-UFO Roundup."  See you next time.

UFO ROUNDUP: Copyright 2004 by Masinaigan Productions, all
rights reserved.  Readers may post news items from UFO
Roundup on their Web sites or in news groups provided that
they credit the newsletter and its editor by name and list
the date of issue in which the item first appeared.

E-Mail Reports to: Joseph Trainor <Masinaigan.nul>
or use the Sighting Report Form at:

http://www.ufoinfo.com/forms/form_sighting.htm

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UFOINFO: http://www.ufoinfo.com

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UFO Reports and Experiences, UFO + PSI Magazine
plus archives of Humanoid Sighting Reports (Albert
Rosales), Filer's Files, Oz Files, UFO News UK.

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   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   Feb > Feb 4

               Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Velez

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 16:23:14 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 07:11:45 -0500
Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Velez


>From: Dan Bright <ufo.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 22:09:29 -0000
>Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph

>>From: Dan Bright <ufo.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 22:39:33 -0000
>>Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph

>>The azimuth of the sun at 14:52pm, for Whittlesea Australia (Lat:
>>37=A1 31' South, Long: 145=A1, 07' East), on January 15 2004 would
>>have been 29.9=A1. The Altitude would have been 71.5=A1:

>>http://aa.usno.navy.mil/

>I made an error in my figures.

>The azimuth of the sun at 14:52pm, for Whittlesea Australia
>(Lat: 37 31' South, Long: 145, 07' East), on January 15 2004
>would have been 275.6. The Altitude would have been 43.4.

>http://aa.usno.navy.mil/

Hi Dan,

You wrote:

>Date and time are ascertained from the EXIF data, embedded
>within the image.

Cheeses, Mary and Joseph! I was going by the EXIF data that I
got from the Photoshop reading of the embedded data! And I was
jumping all over Amy Hebert about the time. I'm not apologizing
though, hell, who knew? I went by the electronic information in
the photo itself. As I'm sure others did also.

>Apologies for the mistake!

It's allowed, Dan. No apology necessary really, we're all human
here. I 'think!"  :)

Bruce Maccabee is making some inquiries, let's see what he comes
up with. I still would like to know size, distance and speed
estimates - if they ever get made.

*Amy: I don't feel the need to apologize for anything I said in
regard to the hard data I relied on for my estimations. I came
by the information honestly and proceeded accordingly. I make no
excuses for any of it. Especially my own perceptions.

However, I want you to know that if you didn't always approach
me in such a mean-spirited way as you do, insulting me every
step of the way in each and every post, that a. you would not
receive the 'in kind' responses that you get from me, and b.
being a true gentleman you 'may have' gotten an apology out of
me.

In case you haven't noticed, of all the List members I am
currently interacting with you seem to be the only one with a
nasty almost angry attitude. About all I will say is... Oops! Oh
well, only human. <g>No response necessary.


Regards,

John Velez








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   Feb > Feb 4

             Re: Review Of 'Sight Unseen' By Hopkins & Rainey -

From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 13:57:24 -0800
Fwd Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 07:13:26 -0500
Subject: Re: Review Of 'Sight Unseen' By Hopkins & Rainey -


>From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 16:45:23 -0600
>Subject: Re: Review Of 'Sight Unseen' By Hopkins & Rainey

>>From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 15:42:28 +0100
>>Subject: Re: Review Of 'Sight Unseen' By Hopkins & Rainey

>>It is going to be easy to demolish the book, if you want to.
>>But I feel that it goes in the right direction. To be sure,
>>there is still a long way to go!

>It is interesting that the old "alternate dimensions" argument
>was finally brought into the picture in an effort to explain the
>obvious inconsistencies and odd events that seem to go along
>with many abduction scenarios. And this is particularly
>noteworthy since Hopkins, from my perspective anyway, has always
>been much more of a nuts-and-bolts (or perhaps "blood-and-guts")
>proponent. He hasn't quite made the jump yet from the Mars Needs
>Women viewpoint to a more paraphysical stance, which might
>included ghosts and demons and all the other entities that go
>bump in the night, by it is an interesting shift.

>But this sort of "explaining something unexplained with
>something perhaps even more unexplained" is not going to win
>very many debates. Unless there's some way to anticipate an
>event and get some decent data - synchronized, sealed clocks
>that end up with time differences, maybe - then it's all just
>fluffy conjecture. Hell, even I can do that!

>What would be a good experiment to test this invisibility/pulled
>out of normal spacetime experience? Again, when it comes to the
>idea of measuring or manipulating time within spacetime, I'm no
>Einstein. I admit I'm just not smart enough to come up with even
>a decent paradigm within which a test can be structured.


Hello Tim:

I'm very disturbed by the idea that we can throw out all the
rules; physics, chemistry, causality, logic...  that makes
everything 'possible', Disneyland style at least, and leaves
nothing testable.  In short, we are right out of science and
into religion or mysticism.

Your sealed clocks idea seems simple and doable however!

Here's a simple gimmick that may have occurred to some of the
abduction people:   Get cheap reliable reasonably accurate
battery driven digital watches with fresh batteries.   These
have gotten fairly cheap now.

Keep one watch on the wrist, and two more at opposite ends of
the house, maybe in innocuous looking boxes or drawers.  Once a
week or so, check them, setting them to some time standard like
your computer clock or WWV radio.  Keep a log of indicated times
and small corrections for all three.

Some time-drift, say a minute a week, is normal with these, thus
the frequent synchronization.

After any anomalous event, missing time say, check all 3 watches
and log the indicated times. Then at least there is something to
play with, something more solid than conjecture.

Other devices may come to mind later, I'm off to work now.


Best

- Larry









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               Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Hatch

From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 14:06:24 -0800
Fwd Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 09:13:11 -0500
Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Hatch


>From: Dan Bright <dan.bright.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 22:58:17 -0000
>Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph

>>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 13:26:44 -0800
>>Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph

>>The orientation of the camera seems paramount. What precise
>>direction was the camera facing when the shot was taken?

>The photographer states that he was taking shots facing "east
>and west" - Hearldsun:

> http://tinyurl.com/39jy4

>>I calculated something like a 300 degree Azimuth, and ran the US
>>Navy site algorithm to get a more accurate 290 degrees. This
>>places the sun in the Western skies, as one might expect unless
>>the Earth reversed its spin. Any chance there was an error in
>>the numbers above?

>Yes. I double checked my figures earlier and the air turned blue
>when I realised my error. I just sent the corrections prior to
>reading your post. Doh!!

>>The table produced is in even 10-minute increments, thus the
>>approximate figures for 14:52 hours local time.

>There is a facility to changing that to 1-min increments, which
>is how I got my final figures (almost the same as yours: Azm
>287.6, Alt: 55.1). This is for 13:52 local time, and assumes
>that the photographer's statement of "about 2pm" was correct
>(meaning the EXIF embedded data is one hour fast. This has
>nothing to do with daylight saving time as I mistakenly alluded
>to in a previous post -- when you're having one of those
>days...!

>If, however, the EXIF data was correct (and the photographer was
>wrong in his statement), then local time would be 14:52
>Azm=275.6 and Alt=43.4)

>>I'm at a loss here. Can somebody in the Melbourne area get a few
>>important data points for us?

>I've emailed a contact of mine in Australia and am awaiting his
>response. I'll let you know if he's willing to take a day trip
>out there.


Hi Dan:

I've made lots of embarrassing mistakes like that. One time I
mapped Melbourne way too far south! Several sightings got
"relocated" when I discovered that gaffe.

By all means, ask your friend if he can take a spin out there.
Whittlesea isn't all that far North of Melbourne. He will need
to drive carefully as they drive on the wrong side of the road
of course.

After I posted last nite, it occurred to me also that the tracks
shown could be a spur line running into or towards town, i.e.
pretty much in any direction. All the more need to stand on the
same spot and face in the same direction, all aided by a good
local map and the obvious landmarks from the UFO photo.

Once having established that, plus solar orientation, _then_ we
can go to work on the UFO image. If for example the seeming
reflections on the object are inconsistent with the sun angle,
we can kick around image trickery (which I doubt), bug wings and
such that others have suggested. Until then, I can only wait.


Best wishes

- Larry Hatch









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             Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Harrison

From: Diane Harrison <auforn.nul>
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 01:12:45 +1000
Fwd Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 09:13:11 -0500
Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Harrison


>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 01:04:39 -0400
>Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph

>>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 13:26:44 -0800
>>Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph


Hi Larry Don

>The tracks could be, and probably are, a spur line, not a main
>line.

>It might end out of sight of the shot on the left or right
>side at a siding. And since we know the time of day and can see
>the shadows, the Sun had to be behind and to the right of the
>photographer's right shoulder.

>The photographer would have been facing approximately south when
>he took the shot.

The photographer's right shoulder was facing north and left was
facing south and his face and camera were facing west towards
the township of Beveridge.

Reference: Peter Taylor reporter Whittlesea Leader phone call
today.

I asked Peter what was happening with the photo, his answer: The
council have now adopted a low profile on the whole affair.

A little insight re township of Beveridge:

http://www.ironoutlaw.com/html/writings_webb_01.html

"The Ned Kelly homestead at Beveridge is one of the last visible
landmarks of the Kelly legend -- with many buildings and sites
linked to this historical figure having disappeared. The site is
significant as is one of the original relics from that era,
acting as a symbolic focus for the Kelly Gang tradition..."


--

Regards Diane Harrison

National Director of The Australian UFO Research Network
Australian Skywatch Director

~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>
THE AUSTRALIAN UFO RESEARCH NETWORK
(A Non-Profit Organization)

E-Mail: auforn.nul
E-mail: ufologist.nul
http://www.hypermax.net.au/~auforn

ADMINISTRATION:

PO Box 738
Beaudessert 4285
QLD Australia
Tel 07 55 44 6888
~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>
Australian UFO Research Network Hotline Number
         1800 77 22 88 Freecall
~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>

All NEW UFO Bookshop at
http://www.contactpublishing.com








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             Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Harrison

From: Diane Harrison <auforn.nul>
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 07:59:21 +1000
Fwd Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 09:13:11 -0500
Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Harrison


>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 13:26:44 -0800
>Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph


Hi Amy, John,Larry, everyone.

Sorry  a correction

>3) Which way does Beveridge Road run? E-W as I
>might presume?

The township of Merriang due east before Beverage and is due
north to Whittlesea which is some 10klm (correction )--->
southeast of either. (not northeast)


I hope this helps
--

Regards Diane Harrison

National Director of The Australian UFO Research Network
Australian Skywatch Director

~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>
THE AUSTRALIAN UFO RESEARCH NETWORK
(A Non-Profit Organization)

E-Mail: auforn.nul
E-mail: ufologist.nul
http://www.hypermax.net.au/~auforn

ADMINISTRATION:

PO Box 738
Beaudessert 4285
QLD  Australia
Tel 07 55 44 6888
~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>
Australian UFO Research Network Hotline Number
          1800 77 22 88 Freecall
~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>

All NEW UFO Bookshop at
http://www.contactpublishing.com








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                              State Of Ufology

From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 22:13:19 +0000
Fwd Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 09:13:11 -0500
Subject: State Of Ufology


Okay, here goes! The "State of Ufology" begins with the
oxymoronic use of a term that implies that science is being
done. In all likelihood, more science is being done here on this
List and by a handful of private individuals than by the formal
scientific community in its entirety. But (reflective of society
in general) all too much of the discussion here and elsewhere
consists of gullible acceptance of unverified information at
face value, illogical opinionizing, and wild surmise. So, the
state of Ufology is pretty pitiful.

Why is this so? Two primary reasons: (1) Very little (almost no)
money is available to support truly scientific projects by
attracting well-qualified people; (2) kooks, con-men, and ax-
grinders who form exploitative organizations and put on pseudo-
scientific conferences continue to dominate the scene and to be
what skeptical journalists and others see as constituting
"Ufology". It's that simple.

Basically, there is no such thing in any meaningful sense as
"Ufology". There are some very dedicated people who have tried
hard, some for a very long time, to try to bring order and
reason into the study of UFOs. With very little success
overall.


 - Dick










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                     Re: Janet Jackson & UFOs - Maccabee

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 18:00:01 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 09:13:11 -0500
Subject: Re: Janet Jackson & UFOs - Maccabee


>From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 09:19:31 EST
>Subject: Janet Jackson & UFOs

>Okay, so during the most widely broadcast event on the planet, a
>saucy-singer gets a boob exposed for a few seconds and the world
>is in an uproar.

>Talk shows and newscasts and papers and websites are all abuzz
>about the incident.

>Meanwhile evil warlords are still running rampant, deficits
>barrellroll to unprecedented levels, terrorists are running amok >
>and no one has yet discovered the ancient mystery of 'The
>Missing Left Socks'.

>Add to that, UFO sightings continue, abduction stories continue
>and our government is still stonewalling us on this matter
>because it doesn't exist.

That was no boob! That was a flying saucer!

Just ask Dr's Grinspoon and Persky (sp?), psychiatrists who
presented a paper at the American Association for the
Advancement of Science (AAAS UFO "debate" in December of 1969.

They argued that flying saucers come primarily in two shapes
(domed disc and cigar) because witnesses are reporting delusions
or dreams related to their sexual upbringing or fantasies. In
other words, the domed disc is based on memories of suckling in
childhood. You can probably guess what the cigar shape is based
on.

So, Janet Jackson... release the saucers and let 'em fly!








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                      Re: Janet Jackson & UFOs - Rimmer

From: John Rimmer <jrimmer.nul>
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 00:04:03 +0000
Fwd Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 09:13:11 -0500
Subject: Re: Janet Jackson & UFOs - Rimmer


>From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 09:19:31 EST
>Subject: Janet Jackson & UFOs

>Okay, so during the most widely broadcast event on the planet, a
>saucy-singer gets a boob exposed for a few seconds and the world
>is in an uproar.

>Talk shows and newscasts and papers and websites are all abuzz
>about the incident.

I think the only reason that "talk shows and newscasts and
papers and websites" are abuzz with this (outside the USA at
least) is in amazement at the astonishingly puritanical reaction
of American TV viewers, broadcasting regulators, sports
officials and sponsors.

In any other part of the world this would just be regarded as a
bit of a laugh, and no-one would be terribly upset or be bothred
about it for more than two minutes.

--
John Rimmer
Magonia Magazine








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              Re: Michael J. Woods On NASA's Motives - Fleming

From: Lan Fleming <lfleming5.nul>
Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 18:51:32 -0600
Fwd Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 09:13:11 -0500
Subject: Re: Michael J. Woods On NASA's Motives - Fleming


>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 10:53:49 -0500
>Subject: Re: Michael J. Woods On NASA's Motives


>Lan said:

>>Speaking of different organizations internal to NASA having
>>different agendas: I recently read in disbelief that Northwest
>>Airlines has admitted sending personal information about their
>>passengers to NASA without the passengers knowing about it. It
>>almost sounds like a paranoid conspiracy theory, but it
>>apparently is a fact that NASA has been involved in what amounts
>>to spying on the public in the name of national security. It
>>makes me wonder if acronym "NASA" now stands for the National
>>Airline Spy Agency. I doubt that whatever NASA group is involved
>>in these covert intelligence activities cares much about whether
>>or not there's life on Mars - unless the Martians are booking
>>flights on Northwest.

>Hold on, Lan! Put on your thinking cap for a minute!

>It's ironic that you don't name the source in which you read
>that. Is that source too unreliable to give it credit in a
>public forum? When you quote such a ridiculous claim you should
>name the source and let us evaluate it for ourselves.

Hello, Ray

My apologies. I had thought nearly everyone would have read
about it in the newspapers, like I did. It's also been reported
by the Associated Press, CNN, etc. Here's the CNN article on it:

http://money.cnn.com/2004/01/21/news/companies/northwest_suit/

"NEW YORK (CNN/Money) - Northwest Airlines faces a class-action
lawsuit and potential civil penalties after the No. 4 U.S.
carrier acknowledged that it provided passenger information to
NASA, according to a published report Wednesday."

Like I said, it does sound like a paranoid conspiracy delusion,
but if it's in all the papers, I assume it's true.








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                Re: UFO ROUNDUP Volume 9, Number 4 - Stanford

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 20:33:12 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 09:13:11 -0500
Subject: Re: UFO ROUNDUP Volume 9, Number 4 - Stanford


>From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 21:17:56 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
>Subject: Re: UFO ROUNDUP Volume 9, Number 4

>>From: John Hayes <webmaster.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 17:10:05 +0000
>>Subject: Re: UFO ROUNDUP Volume 9, Number 4

>>>From: Steven L. Wilson Sr <Ndunlks.nul>
>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 23:29:59 EST
>>>Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 9, Number 4

>>>UFO ROUNDUP
>>>Volume 9, Number 4
>>>January 28, 2004
>>>Editor: Joseph Trainor
>
>><snip>
>
>>>ROUNDUP MYSTERY VAN CAUGHT ON FILM
>
>>Anyone wishing to see the image of the van it is now on the
>>website with the bulletin at:
>
>>http://www.ufoinfo.com/roundup/v09/rnd0904.shtml
>
>>My thanks to Steven for getting the bulletin out to the List
>>(Just like old times Steven <g>). My computer stopped working
>>last Tuesday and I have been forced to check my mail either at
>>work or on another person's computer. It will be a few weeks
>>before I can get things sorted out and site updates might be
>>delayed until then.
>
>
>Hi Everyone!
>
>It is interesting to note that exactly thirty years ago this
>January, Dennis Prophet, a resident of Scarborough, Ontario (now
>part of the City of Toronto) had a UFO sighting that not only
>changed his life but resulted in Canada's first UFO research van
>- one that was just as impressive and nearly outrageous as the
>van spotted in Arizona.
>
>His UFO van contained much investigative equipment, including a
>telephone (a big deal then!) and an electromagnetic UFO
>detector. Prophet's van was also equipped with a transparent dome
>skylight for a large telescope which he used for UFO searches at
>night. He was a member of MUFON and founder of his own UFO
>group, Reptune Research.
>
>There are a few ufologists and UFO enthusiasts, such as
>Toronto's TV newswriter Mike Woods who drives around in a
>vehicle with the license plate 'UFO GUY', that are always
>prepared with binoculars and cameras in their cars for their
>next encounter with UFOs.

>While doing a search for any others out there who like Prophet
>operated their own UFO vans, I came across this, unrelated but
>interesting article, (see below) which reminded me that many vans
>in the past had beds in them too!

>http://www.mindcontrolforums.com/hambone/mundo.html


Nick and any interested readers who read the link Nick provided,

The only think I ever heard of 'Laura Mundo' back in the 1950s
(I've heard nothing of her since then.) was enough to convince
me she was nuttier than George Adamski, Dan Fry, Howard Menger,
and Calvin Girvin combined! What I just read on the link
provided makes me suspicion that she still is 'off the rocker',
so please allow me the chance to review her references to me and
correct some of her errors. Her statements (as on her webpage)
are presented, below, in the original capitals (Quote marks
added by me.), into which I shall interject my comments in
normal writing:


I HAVE FOUND THE EXPERIENCE OF RAY STANFORD, DIRECTOR OF PROJECT
STARLIGHT, AUSTIN, TEXAS..WHEN HE WAS ABOUT 14, A GRAPHIC
EXAMPLE OF THE ABOVE, WHEN ADAMSKI WAS STILL AT PALOMAR GARDENS,
MANY YEARS AGO.

I never heard of George Adamski until I was 15 years of age and
never met him until the summer of 1956, when I was 18. Yes, he
was at Palomar Gardens at that time.

AT THE FIRST INTERNATIONAL UFO CONVENTION IN MEXICO CITY IN
1977, STANFORD PUBLICLY OLD OF HIS DISILLUSIONMENT IN ADAMSKI
BECAUSE OF "SEXUAL DEVELOPMENTS" AT ADAMSKI'S CALIFORNIA HOME
WHERE STANFORD WAS A WELCOME GUEST. ADAMSKI'S WOMEN FOLLOWERS
OFFERING THEMSELVES TO THE SPACEMEN PRESENT, AND ADAMSKI TAKING
WHAT WAS LEFT OVER..ALTHOUGH THEY OFFERED THEMSELVES TO THE
EARTHMEN PRESENT, ALSO..EVEN HIMSELF, AT THE ILLEGAL AGE OF
FOURTEEN, HE SAID, OBVIOUSLY JUMPING TO IMMATURE CONCLUSIONS.

I think Laura Mundo meant to say, "...Stanford publicly
told...", not, "...publicly old..."

I never lived at Adamski's place or anywhere near! And I never
had any kind of sexual relations whatsoever with anyone in
California, even though by the time I visited Adamski I was
eighteen.

THEN A WOMAN IN AUSTRALIA HAD WRITTEN LUCY McGINNES, ADAMSKI'S
(THEN) SECRETARY, ABOUT A PROMISCUOUS YOUNG WOMAN, SONJA
LYUBEIN, WHO CLAIMED TO HAVE MET ORTHON THERE (THE YOUNG MAN
FROM VENUS WHOM ADAMSKI MET ON THE CALIFORNIA DESERT IN 1952 -
 SEE FLYING SAUCERS HAVE LANDED - AND WHOM I MET AT ONE OF OUR
DETROIT FLYING SAUCER CONVENTIONS IN 1958). ORTHON HAD INVITED
SONYA TO HIS HOUSE, SO SHE AND THE YOUNG WOMEN WHO WROTE TO LUCY
WENT THERE WHERE THERE WERE 32 MEN AND DID THEIR SEXUAL BIDDING.
AT THE TIME ADAMSKI THOUGHT THE TWO WOMEN WERE DABBLING IN
PSYCHISM AND WARNED THEM AGAINST IT AS HE DID EVERYONE AFTER THE
SPACE PEOPLE, INCLUDING ORTHON, TOLD HIM...TO TURN AROUND AND
TELL THE PEOPLE TO BEWARE OF THE ASTRAL..."

Laura seems to be referring to what Sonja Lyubesin (That
spelling may be wrong, but Laura has it less correct than I have
it.) personally told me: That back in Australia 'Orthon' -- if
Sonja was telling the truth as she knew it and not just spoofing
me to see if I would invite her to bed, then I wonder who was
the Machiavellian guy posing as 'Orthon'! :) -- and 32 other
space men had sex with them in a single night! It was tough not
'laughing my ass off' right in front of Sonja as she told that
story and declared that upon hearing it, Adamski had invited her
over to visit him, 'post haste'. :)

It was Sonja who lived at Palomar Gardens with Adamski, Lucy
McGinnis (Adamski's secretary), and Alice K. Wells for a while,
and certainly not me. Two friends and I did spend a night at
Adamski's one night after we had driven in late from Texas and
Adamski didn't want us to have to drive around in the wee hours
looking for a motel. Contrary to what Colin Bennett's comments
on Adamski might lead one to believe, Adamski did not invite any
of the three of us teenage boys to sleep in his bed or bedroom.
In fact, I never saw a stitch of evidence that Adamski had the
slightest sexual interest in any of the various young men who
visited Palomar Gardens. I cannot say the same thing of George
Hunt 'Ric' Williamson, alias "His Royal Highness Prince Michael
d 'Obrenovic, Heir to The Throne of Serbia", and a November 20,
1952, 'witness' for Adamski, however. He insisted in crawling
into bed with me the first night I met him in Arizona in the
summer of 1956. However, 'Ric' got no closer to 'scoring' with
me that night than Adamski had gotten to a Venusian on November
20, 1952. :)

Sonja claimed that one night Adamski had said he was, to quote
Sonja, "...expecting a visit from one of the space brothers...",
so she claimed she hid in Adamski's bedroom closet under a pile
of clothes or something, with the closet door wide open, peering
out to see what might happen. Sonja said all that happened in
the whole night, was that Adamski got out of bed in the middle
of the night and began nervously pacing the room for several
hours before sunrise. Next morning, when Adamski left the room
to go to the bathroom and then to the dining area for breakfast,
Sonja slipped out from under the pile of whatever, went out the
side door of Adamski's bedroom, and then strolled into the house
via the back door for breakfast, whereupon Adamski told her and
those present that in the night 'one of the space brothers' (I
think Sonja said he claimed it was 'Ramu' or 'Firkon', but I
cannot be sure after all the years.) had come and visited him
for several hours.

It was kind of funny, because Sonja told me with a serious face,
that the episode made her fear that Adamski had reduced his
level of contact to "the psychic level and that it is no longer
on the physical life the space brothers that had sex with us
back in Australia...", while advising everyone else to "avoid
the psychic".

THEN LATER, STANFORD TOLD THE INTERNATIONAL 1977 UFO CONVENTION,
ADAMSKI WENT TO SAN FRANCISCO TO LECTURE WHERE HE ONCE AGAIN MET
ORTHON WHO TOLD HIM THAT SONJA HAD BEEN INVOLVED IN A PHYSICAL
ORGY WITH HIM. GA WROTE SONJA THIS WAS SO AND THAT ORTHON HAD
SAID FOR HER TO COME TO LIVE IN THE U.S..AT HIS PLACE..WHICH SHE
DID.

Well, after over 45 years, I don't recall all the details, but
suppose that what Laura reports there may be pretty close to
what Sonja told me, but be certain of one thing. I absolutely
did not tell the Acapulco UFO convention that Adamski had any
meeting with Orthon in San Francisco. I may have said that Sonja
told me he did, however. That's a big difference. After all, I
had long-before the Acapulco conference dismissed George
Adamski's claims as absolute fiction, despite Sonja's claim of
an orgy with 'Orthon and Company'.

I'm not sure how much I said about it at the Acapulco
conference, but during my teens, the final 'straw that broke the
camel's back' or any lingering belief I had retained in
Adamski's claims happened when he took me into his "laboratory"
and showed me the 1.25 inch-in-diameter discs painted with a
frighteningly glow-in-the-dark and dangerous radioactive
material (or so it said on the large can with the radiation
danger symbol and warning words on it from which he obtained the
material) he had suspended on nearly invisible suspension lines
(nylon?) in a formation to photograph around a dark
'mothership'! Adamski clearly liked me and wanted to let me know
that I should not waste my life believing in him and his claims,
which he said he would not have had to have gotten into if his
bootlegging business during prohibition had not been ruined when
prohibition was abolished. :)

As to Laura Mundo, even before I wised up to Adamski in the late
1950s, all my friends and I regarded her as really ridiculous,
as the web page to which Nick has directed us, IMO, clearly
demonstrates.

Come to think of it, I suppose that Orgy With Orthon would make
a cute book title. :) Yet, as a publisher told me years ago when
I proposed a book exposing Adamski, Daniel W. Fry, and several
other 'contactees', based on my first-hand encounters with them,
"Sorry, but negative books just don't sell well enough..." But I
had never expected such a book to sell very well. I just wanted
to get the facts as I had learned them 'out there' so the few
who wanted the truth could learn it first hand. That's why I
said as much as I did at Acapulco in the 1977 conference. I am
amazed that there are still people out there who actually
believe that, for example, George Adamski, had a real encounter
on the desert at 12:30 in the noon hour, Thursday, November 20,
1952. Colin Bennett pretends that something real happened that
day, but it did not. I learned the actual, inside story of that
November 20, 1952, fiasco, from the inside. No, even Adamski's
first one was not real.

Here's hoping you have enjoyed this little discourse on
'interplanetary intercourse'. :)


Ray Stanford

"You know my method. It is founded upon the observance of
trifles." -- Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery








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                    Re: Review Of Sight Unseen - Bourdais

From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais.nul>
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 09:58:38 +0100
Fwd Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 09:13:11 -0500
Subject: Re: Review Of Sight Unseen - Bourdais


>From: Stuart Miller <Stuart.Miller4.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 17:27:53 -0000
>Subject: Re: Review Of Sight Unseen

>>From: Luis R. Gonzalez <lrgm.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 00:08:05 +0100
>>Subject: Re: Review Of 'Sight Unseen' By Hopkins & Rainey

>>>From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais.nul>
>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 15:42:28 +0100
>>>Subject: Re: Review Of 'Sight Unseen' By Hopkins & Rainey


>With respect gentlemen, I think you are missing the point here.

<snip>

>Hopkins admits that it took him, as I remember, close to two
>decades to get his thoughts in order on this. He's aware of the
>risk he's taking, and it appears, not without some discomfort. I
>for one applaud his and Carol's bravery. I think it is a
>landmark book and, as I mentioned in my own review, I think
>their ideas will gradually, over time, gain acceptance and
>filter through into mainstream thinking. Rip it apart,
>gentlemen, by all means, but I will not be looking at the detail
>too closely. My preference is to stand back and take a broader
>view.


To Stuart and List

If you read my posts, you will see that I praised the book, and
for the same reasons as you.


Gilads bourdais








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               Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Hatch

From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 01:39:30 -0800
Fwd Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 09:13:11 -0500
Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Hatch


>From: Diane Harrison <auforn.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul,
>Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 13:36:43 +1000
>Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph

>>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 13:26:44 -0800
>>Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph

<snip>

Hello Diane!

Please see inserted notes below .. -LH

<snip>

>Just talked to Peter Taylor the reporter

>Roland was facing west when he took the picture so the object
>was in the west. Sun rises in the east sets in the west
>approximate time 2.00 pm . The train was running to the right in
>the image it had just left Melbourne.

Ah! Then the train was headed North. If that was from left to
right from the vantage point of the photographer, then he had to
be facing West.

>>>The railway line that is present in the image probably runs
>>>South to North (Melbourne to Epping). The sun would be to the
>>>West (North would be to the right of the image). This
>>>corresponds with the shadows that are visible te ground.

>Dan your above assumption appears to be correct.

>I have to say, regardless of what this object is everyone has
>done a fantastic job of trying to identify it and it just goes
>to show how everyone's efforts are just as important as the next
>persons.

>>>The precise pattern and intensity of reflection and shadow on
>>>the object would surely depend upon it's precise shape,
>>>dimensions, attitude, altitude, surface material, atmospheric
>>>haze, so on and so forth, which of course we don't know.

>I agree

>>>For what it's worth, I've also done a few test renders of a
>>>domed disk in various positions (with the sun set as stated
>>>above):

>>>http://www.zaziork.com/astrobservation/whittlesea_demo.htm

>>Hello Dan, Amy, John:

>>The orientation of the camera seems paramount. What precise
>>direction was the camera facing when the shot was taken?

>He was facing west Larry.

>The railway runs north to south Melbourne to New South Wales.

OK! Then it can _not_ be the yellow line on this map (look North
from the grey box for central Melbourne ..) but rather the _red_
line going thru Craigieburn, Donnybrook, Beveridge .. Wandong
etc. and beyond. Is this correct at least?

http://www.cdi.com.au/~johnc/rlyv-s.gif

<snip>

>>Since the highway crossing is identified as Beveridge Road, I
>>presume that road runs roughly East-West, and that the
>>photographer had to be facing either East or West (plus/minus so
>>many degrees of course.)

>West

>>As this is/was Summer time in Australia, I would expect the Sun
>>to be high in the Northern skies at Noon, and well off to the
>>West of that by 14:52 hours (nearly 3:00 PM).

>Correct on NSW & VIC times due to daylight saving.

>>I'm at a loss here. Can somebody in the Melbourne area get a few
>>important data points for us?

>>1) Where precisely is the location of this railway crossing?

>Due East of Beverage township by 6lkm and 30 to 40klm direct
>north of Melbourne.

Sixty One kilometers east of Beveridge? Did you mean 6.1 km?
Please refer to that same map (link above) again. 61 km East of
Beveridge (as shown) would put you way east of Whittlsea.

>>2) Do the tracks run N-S as the map seems to indicate?

>Yes it does almost along side the M31 called the Hume Hwy
>which runs due west of Beverage by 2 to 3 klm.

>>3) Which way does Beveridge Road run? E-W as I
>>might presume?

>The township of Merriang due east before Beverage and is due
>north to Whittlesea which is some 10klm northeast of either.

>>3) Which way was the photographer facing?

>West toward Beverage township - population of Beverage
>approximately 200 to 300 hundred. It has 2 local pubs one of
>which is the local shop for everything.

I'm sure they have Beverages too, but isn't the town named
Beveridge? That's what shows on the map.

In any case, I hope nobody minds if somebody goes out there
independantly, confirms the location by comparing to the news
photo, verifies the orientation of the camera, and tidies up the
exact spot. News reporters are famous for screwing up things
like this.

This sounds like an ideal use for a GPS unit BTW. I wish I had
one just to play with, rather expensive still.

I hope nobody relies on a magnetic compass of all things! Go to
any large sporting goods store. Lay one of each type on the
counter. No two will point in the same direction. A good local
map will do, I mean a professionally produced one with an arrow
indicating North etc., and not some rag showing directions to a
night club or whatever.

Is Beveridge/Beverage township quite far from the station shown
on the rail map above? Maybe that could explain the 61
kilometres perhaps?

Sorry for all the questions, I hate geographical loose ends.


Best wishes

- Larry Hatch

http://www.larryhatch.net









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                    UFOs Seen By Mexican Aviation Experts

From: Eustaquio Andrea Patounas <socex.nul>
Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 07:48:12 -0200
Fwd Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 09:13:11 -0500
Subject: UFOs Seen By Mexican Aviation Experts



Source: Turks.US

http://www.turks.us/article.php?story040203185205221

Tuesday, February 03 2004 @ 06:52 PM Eastern Standard Time
Contributed by: Admin

Alfonso Salazar and Salvador Guerrero, aviation technicians in
Mexico, say they shot videos of eight UFOs as they flew over
Mexico City's International airport on Saturday. Since they work
with planes, they knew these were not ordinary aircraft. And
something was seen crashing into the ocean in Nigeria but no
airplane was found.

Scott Corales translated an article from the Mexico press,
telling about the UFO videos. Salazar and Guerrero shot three
separate videos on the same day. In the first one, they saw 6
UFOs flying in an inverted "J" shape. Later, they spotted a
cigar-shaped UFO and later a round one. They say, "We were in
the hangar area and suddenly saw the first six UFOs in the sky,
and we recorded until the last one appeared&The speed they used
to disappear was immediate, and more or less all of them were at
an altitude of 12,00 feet."

Airport conditions in Nigeria are bad and crashes are not
uncommon. However, rescue workers there could find no trace of
an aircraft that witnesses reported seeing crash into the ocean
on Friday.

Emmanuel Ijewere, of the Nigerian Red Cross Search operations,
says, "We are tired of looking at water. We are now convinced
that there was no plane crash." The Nigeria Aviation Safety
Initiative (NASI) has classified the craft as an Unidentified
Flying Object (UFO).

NASI's Jerry Agbeyegbe says, "Certainly an object was sighted
crashing into the ocean, we have termed it for now as a UFO. We
have advised government to intensify (the) search until we are
absolutely sure that it was not a plane." (AFP)








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                          Need Photos Of Utah Farm

From: A. J. Gevaerd - Revista UFO <gevaerd.nul>
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 09:02:46 -0200
Fwd Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 09:13:11 -0500
Subject: Need Photos Of Utah Farm


Dear Folks,

I am publishing George Knapp's article about the Gorman's farm
in Utah where very odd things happen. I wonder if any of you
would have pictures of anything related to that farm to send me
for the magazine.

Proper credit will certainly be given.

Please, if any of you can help me, send the pictures (with
description and credit) to: gevaerd.nul

Many thanks!


A. J.








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                          Element 115 'Discovered'

From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 02:42:53 -0800
Fwd Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 09:13:11 -0500
Subject: Element 115 'Discovered'



Hello all:

Forgive me if this is old news for some of you.

A joint effort by Lawrence Livermore scientists and others from
the JINR in Dubna Russia have created a few precious atoms of
Element 115.

http://newton.ex.ac.uk/aip/latest.html

Don't let this line fool you however:

"The long lifetime observed for element 115 suggests that
physicists might be getting closer to the 'island of stability'"

This long lifetime is something in the order of 90 milliseconds,
just long enough to identify it by its immediate decay products.
(Don't try this at home.) They managed to produce four whole
atoms of the stuff.

Now try to imagine Bob Lazar taking a nice heavy lump of Element
115 home and plopping it on his kitchen table. Orange in color,
I think he said.

Lets be generous and say the _half_ life of e-115 is 90
milliseconds, and that Lazar borrowed, oh heck, a whole kilogram
of e-115 to play with.

90 milliseconds (ms) later, he has 500 grams left. another 90 ms
and its 250 grams... 30 half-lives later, he has less than a
microgram, lets say the eyelash off of a flea, and that's being
generous indeed.

What happens to the original mass? It decays over and over into
nuclear species to radioactive that they aren't found in nature.
I would _not_ want to be riding with Bob Lazar he took this
stuff home.

30 half lives? That's 30 x 90 milliseconds, or 2.7 seconds. Bob
must have driven home awful fast.

Others may judge how likely it is for Lazar or anyone to take
anything that radioactive out of the laboratories of "Area-51"
(or whatever) at the Nevada Test site, on a whim, unchallenged.

For more news on "Element 115", enter just that quote as a
Google search phrase. Its created quite a buzz in physics
circles. The first decay product seems to be element 113, making
the discovery a double header!


Best wishes

- Larry Hatch







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                           'The Farewell Dossier'

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 06:09:23 -0800
Fwd Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 09:13:11 -0500
Subject: 'The Farewell Dossier'



I thought this article pertinent to the List as an example of
'disinformation strategies' the CIA uses to achieve their goals.

-----

Source: Taipei Times

http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/edit/archives/2004/02/04/2003097438

Feb 04, 2004


'The Farewell Dossier':

how a CIA plot helped win the Cold War Under normal ircumstances,
success has a thousand fathers and failure is an orphan; in the
world of intelligence gathering, nothing could be further from
the truth

By William Safire
NY TIMES NEWS SERVICE , WASHINGTON
Wednesday, Feb 04, 2004,Page 9

Intelligence shortcomings, as we see, have a thousand fathers;
secret intelligence triumphs are orphans. Here is the unremarked
story of "the Farewell dossier": how a CIA campaign of computer
sabotage resulting in a huge explosion in Siberia -- all
engineered by a mild-mannered economist named Gus Weiss --
 helped us win the Cold War.

Weiss worked down the hall from me in the Nixon administration.
In early 1974, he wrote a report on Soviet advances in
technology through purchasing and copying that led the
beleaguered president -- detente notwithstanding -- to place
restrictions on the export of computers and software to the
USSR.

Seven years later, we learned how the KGB responded. I was
writing a series of hardline columns denouncing the financial
backing being given Moscow by Germany and Britain for a major
natural gas pipeline from Siberia to Europe. That project would
give control of European energy supplies to the Communists, as
well as generate US$8 billion a year to support Soviet computer
and satellite research.

Then French president Francois Mitterrand also opposed the gas
pipeline. He took then US president Ronald Reagan aside at a
conference in Ottawa on July 19, 1981, to reveal that France had
recruited a key KGB officer in Moscow Center.

Colonel Vladimir Vetrov provided what French intelligence called
the Farewell dossier. It contained documents from the KGB
Technology Directorate showing how the Soviets were
systematically stealing -- or secretly buying through third
parties -- the radar, machine tools and semiconductors to keep
the Russians nearly competitive with US military-industrial
strength through the 1970s. In effect, the US was in an arms
race with itself.

Reagan passed this on to William Casey, his director of central
intelligence, now remembered only for the Iran-contra fiasco.
Casey called in Weiss, then working with Thomas Reed on the
staff of the National Security Council. After studying the list
of hundreds of Soviet agents and purchasers (including one
cosmonaut) assigned to this penetration in the US and Japan,
Weiss counseled against deportation.

Instead, according to Reed -- a former Air Force secretary whose
fascinating Cold War book, At the Abyss, will be published by
Random House next month -- Weiss said: "Why not help the Soviets
with their shopping? Now that we know what they want, we can
help them get it."

The catch: computer chips would be designed to pass Soviet
quality tests and then to fail in operation.

In our complex disinformation scheme, deliberately flawed
designs for stealth technology and space defense sent Russian
scientists down paths that wasted time and money.

The technology topping the Soviets' wish list was for computer
control systems to automate the operation of the new trans-
Siberian gas pipeline. When we turned down their overt purchase
order, the KGB sent a covert agent into a Canadian company to
steal the software; tipped off by Farewell, we added what geeks
call a "Trojan Horse" to the pirated product.

"The pipeline software that was to run the pumps, turbines and
valves was programmed to go haywire," writes Reed, "to reset
pump speeds and valve settings to produce pressures far beyond
those acceptable to the pipeline joints and welds. The result
was the most monumental non-nuclear explosion and fire ever seen
from space."

Our NORAD monitors feared a nuclear detonation, but satellites
that would have picked up its electromagnetic pulse were silent.
That mystified many in the White House, but "Gus Weiss came down
the hall to tell his fellow NSC staffers not to worry. It took
him another 20 years to tell me why."

Farewell stayed secret because the blast in June 1982, estimated
at three kilotons, took place in the Siberian wilderness, with
no casualties known. Nor was the red-faced KGB about to complain
publicly about being tricked by bogus technology. But all the
software it had stolen for years was suddenly suspect, which
stopped or delayed the work of thousands of worried Russian
technicians and scientists.

Vetrov was caught and executed in 1983. A year later, Casey
ordered the KGB collection network rolled up, closing the
Farewell dossier. Weiss died from a fall a few months ago. Now
is a time to remember that sometimes our spooks get it right in
a big way.










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             Re: Review Of 'Sight Unseen' By Hopkins & Rainey -

From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 08:23:26 -0600
Fwd Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 09:34:25 -0500
Subject: Re: Review Of 'Sight Unseen' By Hopkins & Rainey -


>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 13:57:24 -0800
>Subject: Re: Review Of 'Sight Unseen' By Hopkins & Rainey

>After any anomalous event, missing time say, check all 3
>watches and log the indicated times. Then at least there is
>something to play with, something more solid than conjecture.

Now we're talking workable data!

I think it might also be a good idea to run it double-blind.
 That is, have somebody other than the abductee keep track of
the watches and actually hide them so they can't be tampered
with. It may help eliminate the problem of the abductee
unknowningly resetting the watches while the demons are poking
around in their heads. It may even prevent the demons from
resetting the watches themselves, since they would be unable to
find out the location of the watches from the abductee's mind.

Might also want to try equipping an abductee with a miniature
wireless camera -- also relatively inexpensive these days. Rig
it so it can't be shut off, and then attach it to the abductee
in some way that would make it difficult to remove. Maybe
something will show up when they're shifted out of normal
spacetime.

If we can't directly get data from these experiences because
they're outside our confined view of reality, at least we can
try to gather indirect data that we can understand. Neither of
the experiments above may work, not all hypotheses pan out, but
at least it begins to approach some kind of scientific
examination. Establish a hypothesis ->devise a test ->review the
data ->revise the hypothesis ->repeat as necessary.

I'm not crazy about the idea of using abductees as bait, but you
can't make an omlette.....








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              Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Shough

From: Martin Shough <mshough.nul>
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 14:50:00 -0000
Fwd Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 10:01:03 -0500
Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Shough



Dear All,

A modest contribution to be ignored/jeered at (delete as
appropriate):

Suppose the telephone pole is 15' high at 50' from the camera,
so subtending somewhere around 20 degrees, then the angular size
of the blurred object is order of 1-1.5 degree. (This sort of
rule-of-thumb calculation is relatively insensitive to
variations of a few feet/degrees/mph here and there. Exact
trigonometry could easily narrow down the range of possible
values.) Therefore if the object were (say) 30' from camera it
would be approx. 6" - 9" long. A 6" - 9" bird travelling normal
to the optical axis at a speed of 20 mph will travel 1/3 - 1/2
its own length in a shutter time of 1/125 sec and will show
significant lateral speed blurring. This is not inconsistent
with the photo.

On the other hand, if it was (say) a 50' saucer speed-blurred by
displacing 1/3 of its own length in 1/125 sec then it would be
about 3000' from the camera travelling at about 1300mph. This is
not inconsistent with the photo either.

>From the point of view of the photographer viewing the scene
through the camera the two scenarios are equivalent. He would be
no more or less likely to notice the saucer than a nearby bird.
But for a companion, presumably not looking through a camera
viewfinder, a 1300 mph 50' saucer flying by would be a very much
more noticeable object. Given that the photographer was not
alone, and that nobody noticed the saucer, the bird hypothesis
has to be considered the more likely.

As to whether the image looks like a bird, I think it does. Its
flight attitude would be tilted towards the camera, left wing
up, right wing down, travelling L to R, light-coloured upper
wing surfaces sunlit. The 'saucer' highlights are due to the
dihedral of the wings caught in a raised position between
downbeats.


Martin Shough








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              Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Shough

From: Martin Shough <mshough.nul>
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 15:21:45 -0000
Fwd Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 16:19:57 -0500
Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Shough



Sorry folks,

Oops! Dumb error correction: Checking back, I should have said
1/250 not 1/125sec, so the hypothetical bird in my illustration
would travel around 1/5 of its own length during the exposure.
But the proportionality is preserved of course and the substance
of the argument is not altered.


Martin Shough








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                           Filer's Files #06-2004

From: George A. Filer <Majorstar.nul>
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 11:00:07 EST
Fwd Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 16:30:49 -0500
Subject: Filer's Files #06-2004


Filer's Files #06-2004 Skywatch Investigations.
George A. Filer, Director MUFON Eastern
February 4, 2004, Webmaster: Chuck Warren --
My website is at: www.georgefiler.com/


Blue River Canyons on Mars

The purpose of these files is to report the UFO eyewitness and
photo/video evidence that occurs on a daily basis around the
world and in space. European Space Agency Shows Blue River Like
Valleys, Claims There is Water on Mars, Opportunity Lander Shows
Blue Skies and coral on Mars, Connecticut -- The Round, White
Object Move In A Zigzag Fashion, New Jersey - Several UFO
Sightings Reported, Florida - Bright White, Shaped Like A
Boomerang, Alabama - Four Bright Lights in Tree Tops, Tennessee
- Half Hour Light, Indiana - It Was Very Fast Bright, and a
Circular Object, Michigan - UFO Was Circular With Multiple
Colors, Illinois - Early Morning Green Glowing Ball Of Light,
Texas - Four Silver And One White Ships Hovering, New Mexico-
 Bush Jokes About UFOs, California - Police Officer Takes UFO
Photos, Oregon - Two Close Lights Flying Fast Parallel To The
Ground, Washington - A Round Golf Ball With Multiple Twinkling
Colors, Canada - Beam Of Light & Objects Splitting In Two.
Mexican Aviation Technicians Claim Having Videotaped UFOs,
Guatemala - UFO on the News, UK/England - UFO Appe=D8=F8 aring and
Then Being Pursued, Netherlands - Craft With Two Bright Lights
Moving Very Fast, and Conversation With Mom.

Who Are You Going to Believe - Me or Your Own Eyes

Why Are European Space Agency Images Better?

EUROPEAN SPACE AGENCY (ESA) photos are showing blue river like
canyons and valleys on Mars. These blue areas appear to be
caused by possibly flowing rivers or colors retained from water
that once flowed or perhaps growing algae or bacteria. Blue is
also shown inside some craters. On Earth Lapis Lazuli, Blue
Viteral, and the dark blue azurite is a hydrated copper
carbonate indicating water. Photosynthesis pigments, and copper
bearing minerals often show blue or green colors. Photosynthesis
is the formation of carbohydrates in living plants from water
and carbon dioxide by the action of sunlight on the chlorophyll.
The blue color now being shown by ESA is a major step forward in
revealing the true nature of Mars and that at least some water
is present. In Western Australia stromatolites are layered rocks
that form in the presence of colonies of blue-green bacteria. As
sediments accumulate, they include the remnants of the bacterial
corpses, which give the rock the distinctive appearance. It is
doubtful that blue mineral deposits would follow the apparent
riverbed so living organisms such as bacteria; algae, lichen
might be responsible for the blue color. Satellite data of Earth
seldom shows blue colors unless water is involved.

ESA is showing pronounced blue colors that have not been shown
in NASA/JPL/MSSS photos further indicating that some kind of
false coloring methods are being used. Blue color images become
extremely important in proving that life exists or once existed
on Mars. Many of the rocks if shown in their real colors show
green patches of color indicating lichen or fungi. It appears
the carbon dioxide content of the Martian atmosphere is
replenished by an active microbial ecosystem. Mars organisms may
be very efficient rock eaters, as evidenced by the numerous
holes or pits in the rocks at the Mars landing sites.

Spirit Lander Image of Rectangular Hole

Martian microbes may secrete concentrated organic acids to bore
into the rock. There appear to be chasms as they boreholes as
they eat into the rock. Rock boring organisms on Earth are
common, and this or other mechanisms are occurring on Mars. The
new Mars Rovers are already picking up large square holes in the
rocks. Additionally, the newly revealed blue coloring of the sky
indicates much greater biosphere than has been admitted by NASA.
Coral, shells or lichen like objects are being imaged by the
Opportunity Rover and sent to me by Norman Bryden on February 2,
2004.

The book, "Mars the Living Planet" by Barry Digregorio, Dr.
Gilbert Levin and Dr. Pat Straat provides disturbing information
on coler on Mars. . Mr. Van der Woude says, "Both Ron Wichelman
and I were responsible for the color quality control of the
Viking Lander photographs, and Dr. Tomas Mutch, the Viking
Imaging Team Leader told us he got a call from the NASA
Administrator asking that we destroy the Mars blue sky negative
created from the digital data." The images were then falsely
reddened to make it appear there was no life, no green algae or
lichen on the planet. Page 142. The question, "Why is NASA
withholding blue colored photos from the public? Keep watching
the blues.

"Two hours after the first color image (of Mars from the Viking
Lander) appeared on the monitors a technician abruptly changed
the image from the light-blue sky and Arizona like landscape to
a uniform orange-red sky and landscape." What Gil Levin, Ro and
Patricia Straat did not know is that the order to change the
colors came directly from NASA Administrator himself, Dr. James
Fletcher. Page 140.

"Why was the NASA scientific community blatantly ignoring
crucial scientific data that could support the notion of life on
Mars?" page186

ESA photos are showing blue splotches inside craters and in
valleys. In ESA photos we are seeing green and blue colors--
 where in NASA/JPL/MSSS images thay are showing reddish brown.
Why the discrepancy? Whose color scheme is more accurate?
Billions of taxpayer dollars are being spent to send apparently
false data to the public. Congress should investigate why the
photos from US equipment is so poor, why it is apparently
wrongly colored. In 1962, I was examining satellite photos of
Earth far superior to ours in 2004. Why are not higher quality
images being presented to the public?
http://www.esa.int/export/mex_mm/images/17_LAN_1.jpg

Norman Bryden writes, "Here is a new image that seems to be an
operation that looks like a mining camp." There is a tower
structure shaped sort of like a giant stairway to the lower
right. Just above this tower to the right is a cylinder. The
tower and cylinder are surrounded with marks that are similar to
what you would see in a strip mining operation. Further up on
the photograph on the hill sides are other curious marks. These
marks remind me of the giant petroglyphs of Nazca or other
ancient people of Earth. They are etched into the side of the
hill and you can almost make out symbols or figures. Thanks to
Norman Bryden and NASA/JPL.

Results Of Detailed Analysis Of Mars Images

Christopher Montgomery, writes, "There is now solid evidence of
a highly advanced civilization existing just below the surface
of Mars...please review this information carefully before making
any snap judgments or a hasty conclusion." We have recently
completed analysis on a number of unidentified flying objects
found in recent photographs taken of the Martian sky by the
"Spirit" rover. The initial discovery came as no surprise, as we
have known for years that there was evidence of life on Mars and
that this was a distinct possibility. These Mars UFOs are a fact
of life on Mars. The Mars UFO team at uforc.com has published a
series of reports to apprise you of the Martian threat. This
presentation of Martian anomalies requires your immediate
attention. Signs of life seem to be an omnipresent reality on
Mars. The recent announcements concerning Mars made by President
George Bush gives us all the more reason to give this
information a careful look. We have done all of the research and
exploration for you. God bless. Sincerely, Christopher
Montgomery, Executive Director, UFORC International Global
Network Please go to http://www.uforc.com

Anniversary of Columbia Disaster Ignores UFO Sightings

Angelic writes, "Many witnesses and even cameramen captured
possible UFO activity at the time of the Shuttle disaster." As
usual this was ignored in the official investigation. I saw
video at the time that certainly indicated a UFO, but it was
quickly withdrawn and I was unable to get a copy. On all the
major live television reports that I witnessed that day, I was
intrigued by the in candescent light that surrounded the anomaly
green, purple, red, and blues.

There was an aura surrounding the largest anomaly that caught my
eye. The numerous points of light also seemed to have their each
and own source of energy and form of flight as well. One thing I
remember is that the two major points of light were exchanging
rates of energy and picking up and losing speed inconsistently
with a falling or burning object. The best that I can describe
it was a crown shaped object with two "arms" extending out
shortly then downward as if to give a landing gear affect. there
was a stunning pure green burst of light surrounding it at the
moment too. I was tongue tied and looked to my three friends who
were also glued to the TV we all looked into each others eye's
and simultaneously said, "Did you see that!?" Something that
appeared extra-terrestrial. Dually noted, after that day I have
only once seen the recording of that moment. Most of the
pictures and recordings that are shown now (though still
amazing) are the more down played moments. Thanks to Angelic.

Connecticut -- The Round, White Object Moves In A Zigzag Fashion

GUILFORD - The brother and sister were going for a hike on
January 19, 2004, at 12 noon when they saw an airplane flying
west to east. To the east of the airplane there was a circular,
white shape that was at first flying east, but then seemed to
zigzag side to side, then move vertical as well. We had to keep
moving to keep it in our sight, as when we moved, trees would
hamper our sight. We observed this object for about 1 minute,
and both remarked how we wished we had brought our cameras
today, since the snow that had fallen yesterday had made
everything look so pretty. The object was much larger, because
it was higher in elevation. We kept moving to keep it in view,
but it either disappeared from our sight or vanished in an
instant. Thanks to Peter Davenport UFOcenter

New Jersey - Several UFO Sightings Reported

JACKSON -- An oval UFO aircraft was observed flying at a fast
speed in a circular motion with blinking red, blue, green, and
white lights on January 13, 2004, at 6:30 PM. Other aircraft
were following the UFO that flew left and right for an hour,
until I lost sight of it behind the trees. There must have been
eight other smaller aircraft, perhaps Air Force fighters flying
towards the UFO. Every time they got close to the UFO, it moved
faster away from them. It was scary.

LAKE HOPATCONG - The witness states, "My fianc=C3=A9 and I observed
a triangular shaped object traveling west making a loud
helicopter noise, then hovering at about 2000 feet above the
lake, on January 16, 2004, at 4 AM. The triangular shape was
more specifically like a science model of a molecule, 25 feet
high and 25 feet wide. It had a star of many points at the
center (nucleus region), which was blinking white and red light.
It had an extremely bright and flashing light above this center,
and two bright lights below at a 90-degree separation. The craft
was moving slowly, almost hovering for a moment, and then it
ascended and seemed to retract the outer lights and continue in
a slow westerly direction. Further north, we observed another
craft, shaped more like a plane, but the sharply pointed bulk
head was all white light and there were too many flashing red
and white lights for it to be a plane. The exact shape of the
body of both objects, which presumably connected these lights,
was too dark to ascertain. Both objects flew too low to the
ground to be regulated aircraft and flew at a very slow rate.
The rumbling of the triangular shaped object was intense. Thanks
to Peter Davenport UFOcenter

Another Mullica Hill, NJ Case

MULLICA HILL -- Investigator: Evelyn Galson writes, "I spoke to
the woman in Mullica Hill and she gave me an overview of what
has been going on in her and her children's lives." She told me
that she has been visited by grays ever since she was little.
She remembers seeing a small gray alien leaning over her cradle
and reaching for her and lifting her out. (She learned later in
life they were called grays. She has been finding marks on her
body for a long time and has been seeing her physician, who told
her he didn't know what could be causing them. She also has had
many miscarriages, which she believes has to do with her
abductions. Her little boy, who is 4 years old, has told her
that they take him through the floor. She told him he was
dreaming and he said, "No mommy its real, they take me through
the floor" So she told him, "She believed him." When she was
little she would tell her parents about the things she was
experiencing, but they wouldn't believe her. So she stopped
telling them what was happening to her. In addition, every night
her son wakes up at 4:00 A.M. and runs to her bedroom and wants
to sleep with her. He is having trouble sleeping. Now that she
has been finding marks on her children who are very young, she
has decided to get some help or support. Therefore, she
contacted us and we will be meeting with her. Thanks to
Investigator: Evelyn Galson

Florida - Bright White, Shaped Like A Boomerang

DELTONA -- It was 12:35 PM, on January 18, 2004, when a strange
craft was whiter than white was observed. As the craft came
closer, it was apparent the bright white object was shaped like
a boomerang. It flew straight for a while then turned and poof,
it was gone. It just disappeared. This was really unbelievable.
I've never seen anything like it. Thanks to Peter Davenport
UFOcenter

Alabama - Four Bright Lights in Tree Tops

ROCK CREEK -- Coming home from the store at 7:30 PM, on January
10, 2004, a family noticed two bright lights in the sky. The
couple with their two daughters got their binoculars and went
out onto the back porch to see and saw an object hovering over
the treetops with four bright white lights. As we continued to
watch, it moved slowly to treetop level. At this time the white
lights appeared to turn off and a red and blue light flickered
on and off as it descended downward toward the ground and out of
sight. We could hear dogs in the distance begin to bark. Thanks
to Peter Davenport UFOcenter

Tennessee - Half Hour Light

PIGEON FORGE -- Living in North Indiana, I enjoy a web page that
has a live web cam of the Smoky Mountains. I have it on my
desktop at work and it is always cool to see the current weather
and the view. But, last night at 11 PM, on January 11, 2004, the
web cam captured a very bright light that took =C2=BD hour or more
to move across the picture.
http://www2.nature.nps.gov/air/webcams/parks/grsmcam/grsmcam.htm
Thanks to Peter Davenport UFOcenter

Indiana - It Was Very Fast Bright, and a Circular Object

CHARESTOWN -- This object has been seen four times by a family
in the last two weeks since January 15, 2004, hanging over an
old ammunitions plant that is located near Jeffersonville. The
family has caught it on camera twice as it hovers like a star.
The witness states, "We know it's not a star, because it will
fade and dim and move a little bit as well as it disappears and
it's too bright among the rest of the stars. Thanks to Peter
Davenport UFOcenter

Michigan - UFO Was Circular With Multiple Colors

LAMBERTVILLE -- On January 20, 2004, at 6:55 PM, the witness saw
two circular UFOs and one had many colors. The witness and his
Mother were pulling in their driveway and saw a big buck near
the woods and then off in the night sky they saw a UFO. He went
inside and grabbed binoculars and looked at an object positioned
to the southeast, high in the night sky. At this time the
witness and his stepbrother determined a circular shape with a
rainbow of multiple colors that were pulsating at a rapid speed.
The object stayed to the east and cycled up and down constantly,
at a slow rate. Another UFO was witnessed on January 7, 2004.
The stepbrother observed another bright white object to the
north that was pulsating that appeared to move.

At this point, I realized that without looking through the
binoculars the object was in almost the identical spot to the
north with the same bright whiteness as the one I saw in the
beginning of January. I looked through the binoculars and I
instantly noticed that it was a circular shape and that it was
pulsating bright white light. Though the only differences with
the object were the shape it changed to and its movement. It
moved slowly up and down but still stayed to the northern night
sky. The bright white UFO changed shape but not into a triangle
but into a shape without any distinct qualities. The bright
white UFO started up in the sky and then ended up looking as if
it was in my woods. We both watched each UFO equally and we
stayed outside for about an hour and twenty minutes. The bright,
white, circular UFO was much brighter than the circular colorful
one in the southeastern sky. Though both moved very similar and
at the same speed. They both, also, made absolutely no sound.
All I know is that I've now witnessed three UFOs in the same
month. Thanks to Peter Davenport UFOcenter

Illinois - Early Morning Green Glowing Ball Of Light

ELMHURST -- A glowing blue green sphere was observed floating
south to east at about a 45=C2=B0 angle slowly going across the dark
morning sky at 5:45 PM, on January 18, 2004, towards O'Hare
Airport in Chicago. Thanks to Peter Davenport UFOcenter

Texas - Four Silver and One White Ship Hovering

HOUSTON -- I was returning from class at 8:25 PM, on January 13,
2004, and saw 5 bright lights (4 light blue, one brilliant
white) hovering near my home. I live near the airport, so
assumed planes, but it caught my attention because they never
fly 5 that close together.. Never. I grew up here, and have
witnessed planes my entire life. Then, I noticed that they were
hovering, not moving. Therefore, I stopped my car, on the street
in front of my home, and watched. Four were silver, one was
bright white. They did not move, at all, and they were very
close to one another. Then, I said, "Ok, I'm home you guys can
leave now" and the white one gave 4 quick flashes of light, and
then began to move between the other 4, which were outlying in a
rough circle pattern, though not quite a circle. They were
beautiful, what I could see, and seemed powerful. Thanks to
Peter Davenport UFOcenter

New Mexico- President Bush Jokes About UFOs

ROSWELL -- President Bush visited New Mexico for the first time
and: jokes about UFOs. "I understand you have reports this
morning of an unfamiliar aircraft," he said to laughter from
residents who have freely adorned their town with images of
green aliens. "Don't worry -- it was just me." President Bush
spoke to a jubilant<even rowdy--crowd at the Roswell Convention
and Civic Center this morning about the continuing need to
defend the country against terrorism, including the renewal of
the USA Patriot Act. The crowd, including a large group from the
New Mexico Military Institute, yelled out supportive cheers
regularly and distracted the president way from his prepared
speech a few times. Bush did not leave without jokingly
acknowledging what the small southeastern New Mexico city is
best known for -- as the site of an alleged 1947 UFO crash and
as a draw for conspiracy theories about extraterrestrials.
http://www.borderlandnews.com/stories/borderland/20040123-

California - Retired Police Office Takes UFO Photos

SAN MATEO -- Dan Baker writes, I was just looking at your site
and the UFO pictures from Ohio. I, too, am a retired cop and for
a few months now I have discovered that I can get images of
anomalous objects by use of my digital camera. I'm sending a
long a couple. I saw the pics on your site and thought they were
very similar to what I have been getting. First pic is of an
object taken near my neighbors TV antenna...notice it appears to
be reflecting sunlight in the front of the object and omitting a
vapor trail. Second pic I took of a small plane flying
overhead...upon download to the computer I discovered two
objects to the left of the plane and one to the right of the
plane. I have about a hundred more like these. Thanks to Daniel
Baker

LA CRESCENTA - The witness was driving down Montrose Avenue when
he saw a strange craft above him at 12:30 AM, on January 18,
2004. He states, "The craft was very long, like a pencil, with
steady green lights on each end, and a flashing red light in the
middle flying far too close to rooftops to be a plane." It
didn't look like a plane anyway, so I started following it down
Montrose Avenue, but it was going about 55 mph, which was faster
than I dared go on a Saturday night with all the police around.
The craft turned and was going steadily up Pennsylvania Avenue,
so I followed. The craft turned again at Foothill Boulevard and
there were many civilians watching it, and one car followed it
along foothill with a video camera. The craft moved quickly and
I heard no sound from it even though it was close to rooftops.
After following it for a while, I headed for home. Thanks to
Peter Davenport UFOcenter

MAPLE VALLEY -- It was a clear starry night on January 20, 2004,
at 9:05 PM when the witness saw something sparkly out the corner
of his eye outside the window. It was multi-colored and
twinkled. He got his binoculars and saw a round golf ball-shaped
thing with many colors moving around on it. I woke my husband up
to come and look at it; but, when he came out on our deck to see
the object, it had moved backwards so the detail was no longer
visible. It is still there right now; but too far away to see
the shape and detail now but we still see the colors twinkling.
It was very beautiful; but, I cannot imagine what it was. Thanks
to Peter Davenport UFOcenter

Canada - Beam Of Light & Objects Splitting In Two

NELSON, BRITISH COLUMBIA. On January 11, 2004, a family was
heading for home 8 kilometers south of town when they saw a
strange craft. Their teenagers in the back got rather excited
when they saw it but, the husband said, it must be a helicopter.
Due to the man's wife insisting he slow the vehicle down,so they
could have a much better look, they all saw a narrow beam of
light coming from the sky and lighting up the side of a mountain
a half-mile away. Due to the slope of the mountainside they
could easily see the beam of light hitting the forest for about
half a minute. They could not see where the light originated and
then it was gone.

A second witness on January 12, 2004, also called to report a
brilliant ball of white light traveling slowly and extremely low
over the town of Nelson at 9:40 the following night. The object
was traveling in an easterly direction and as it got to around
the Cedar Street area it broke up into two pieces, one then flew
off to the southeast and the other went almost directly to the
north. The piece that went northward moved off at a very fast
rate of speed as the other moved a long slowly at about the same
rate of speed as the main ball of light. Thanks to Brian Vike,
Director HBCC UFO Research Canadian Toll Free UFO Hotline 1 866
262 Website: http://www.hbccufo.com

ST JOHN, Newfoundland -- There was an over flight of the

City on January 17-18, 2004, near midnight of a very large
flying triangle craft. The craft was observed with large lights
on each of three corners and a dimmer light was in the center of
the craft. Thanks to Bob Toutman

Mexican Aviation Technicians Claim Having Videotaped UFOs

MEXICO CITY -- Two Mexican aviation technicians claim to have
reorded eight UFOs with a camcorder as the objects flew over
Mexico City's International Airport on Saturday afternoon.
Aviation and photography technicians Alfonso Salazar and
Salvador Guerrero told the press that they managed to film the
event from the hangar area of the terminal using their
camcorder. The events occurred in three separate occasions,
involving a difference of three hours and 15 minutes. The first
event, recorded at 13:20 local time involved six flying objects
that formed an inverted "J" shape. Later they saw a tubular
shape and at 22H55 GMT they recorded a spherical UFO. The speed
they used to disappear was immediate, and more or less all of
them were at an altitude of 12,00 feet," added the techs. Air
traffic controllers and other pilots stated that on certain
occasions "unidentified flying objects are seen in the sky" and
that these cannot be picked up by radar.
http://www.mipunto.com/punto_noticias/noticia_entretenimiento.js
p?tipo=3DCURIOSIDADES&archivo=3D040201021717.icjrnsl2.txt
Translation (C) 2004. Scott Corrales, IHU.

Guatemala - UFO on the News

I read what you wrote about your Mother in this weeks files and
how she saw a UFO in 1965. This reminded me of my own Mother who
has passed away. My Mom who was a nurse met my Dad while he was
in the military service in San Antonio, Texas. Later my family
owned 35 acres of land in the backwoods of Ohio near Zanesville.
We would stay there in the summers in a small cabin. One day, as
the sun was setting over the pond area, we heard a high pitched
humming sound, and my Mother began to scream, " No! No!" I
looked over at her, and she sat on the ground and buried her
face in her hands, and I became concerned for her. " What's
wrong, Mom?" I said. " No! Not again!" she cried. I said, " What
do you mean?" I looked at her again, seeing her tremble with her
face in her hands, and then I looked over to where my Dad was
standing, and he was "frozen" in his tracks, as though
completely controlled by some other force. The noise became more
intense, and all the surroundings became like a white sheen
which was more than enough to convince me that something was
about to happen. Just before I blacked out I remember a bright
white crescent shaped UFO appeared out of nowhere. I do not have
any other memories of this event at this time. I only remembered
this much just recently. I have heard it said that UFO
abductions run in families.

International UFO Congress Feb. 8-14, 2004

We are rapidly approaching our 13th Annual Winter Convention on
Feb 8 to 14th. Our steady growth over the years prompted our
move last year to a larger facility at the Flamingo Resort in
Laughlin, Nevada. The Flamingo has a new 20,000 square foot
convention center, which will easily seat 1200+ attendees on the
banks of the Colorado River! The event is one week long, and
will host 25 speakers from around the world. Best of all, it is
one of the most affordable conferences in the world!

Speakers include: George Filer, Jim Marrs, Matthew Hurley, Joe
McMoneagle, Wynn Free, David Wilcock, Riley Martin, Adrian Dvir,
Russell Callaghan (U.K.) Rich Dolan, Haktan Akdogan (Turkey), Ed
& Kris Sherwood, James Mccanney, A.J. Gevaerd (Brazil), Claude
Swanson, Stan Gordon, Budd Hopkins, Carol Rainey, Lisette
Larkins, Daniel Sheehan, Leah Haley, Santiago Yturria Garza
(Mexico), Michael Horn, Mary Rodwell (Australia), and Wendelle
Stevens.

I NEED YOUR HELP

Dear Readers - Filer's Files has been brought to you free on a
weekly basis for seven years . As of January 1, 2004, I'm
requesting a donation of $2 a month or $24 per year to enable me
to continue with Filer's Files. These files can not exist
without your help. Donations can be sent to:
 https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr for majorstar.nul

You may use Paypal, Visa, American Express, or Master charge.
 You can also mail your check to

George Filer, 222 Jackson Road, Medford, NJ 08055.

Many Thanks for your donations

"Global Implications of the UFO Reality" book



David E. Twichell writes: "How will humankind react when full
disclosure of the alien presence in our world is finally
released? Why has official secrecy been perpetuated for so many
years? Is the UFO phenomenon a modern myth or have they always
been with us? What are the credentials of those who insist "we
are not alone in the universe." These and many other
provocative questions are addressed. Chilling scientific
evidence demonstrates the urgency for full disclosure - NOW!
On that historic day, there is no element of the human
experience that will remain unaffected. Go to:
www.ufoimplications.com to read an excerpt from the book and
ordering instructions.

Cognigen - is a leading global provider of discount telecom
services. The best rates in the industry. long distance rates
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MUFON UFO JOURNAL -- For more detailed monthly investigative
reports subscribe to the MUFON JOURNAL. A MUFON membership
includes the Journal and costs only $45.00 per year. To join
MUFON or to report a UFO go to http://www.mufon.com/. To ask
questions contact MUFONHQ.nul or HQ.nul Mention that
I recommended you for membership. "The MUFON Journal is now
accepting qualified advertising, please call 1 (303) 932-7709
for more information."

Filer's Files is copyrighted 2004 by George A. Filer, all rights
reserved. Readers may post the COMPLETE files on their Web Sites
if they credit the Newsletter and its editor by name and list
the date of issue. These reports and comments are not
necessarily the OFFICIAL MUFON viewpoint. Send your letters to
Majorstar.nul Sending mail automatically grants permission
for us to publish and use your name. Please state if you wish to
keep your name or e-mail confidential. CAUTION, MOST OF THESE
ARE INITIAL REPORTS AND REQUIRE FURTHER INVESTIGATION.

Happy New Year

George A. Filer
www.georgefiler.com/








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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   Feb > Feb 4

                    Re: Element 115 'Discovered' - McCoy

From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy.nul>
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 08:07:27 -0800
Fwd Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 16:32:52 -0500
Subject: Re: Element 115 'Discovered' - McCoy


>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 02:42:53 -0800
>Subject: Element 115 'Discovered'

>Forgive me if this is old news for some of you.

>A joint effort by Lawrence Livermore scientists and others from
>the JINR in Dubna Russia have created a few precious atoms of
>Element 115.

>http://newton.ex.ac.uk/aip/latest.html

>Don't let this line fool you however:

>"The long lifetime observed for element 115 suggests that
>physicists might be getting closer to the 'island of stability'"

>This long lifetime is something in the order of 90 milliseconds,
>just long enough to identify it by its immediate decay products.
>(Don't try this at home.) They managed to produce four whole
>atoms of the stuff.

>Now try to imagine Bob Lazar taking a nice heavy lump of Element
>115 home and plopping it on his kitchen table. Orange in color,
>I think he said.

>Lets be generous and say the _half_ life of e-115 is 90
>milliseconds, and that Lazar borrowed, oh heck, a whole kilogram
>of e-115 to play with.

Hello Larry

On a recent road trip, I was listening to Art Belch, er,Bell,
and he had as his esteemed guest, Lazar.

Of course nothing Lazar said was new,and quite frankly that
"lump" that Larry pointed was, a lump, not of Element 115 but
good old Cow manure, packed into a story that only one like Bell
would want you believe <G>


GT McCoy







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   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   Feb > Feb 4

                     Re: Review Of Sight Unseen - Velez

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 12:28:28 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 16:33:57 -0500
Subject: Re: Review Of Sight Unseen - Velez


>From: Stuart Miller <Stuart.Miller4.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 17:27:53 -0000
>Subject: Re: Review Of Sight Unseen

>>From: Luis R. Gonzalez <lrgm.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 00:08:05 +0100
>>Subject: Re: Review Of 'Sight Unseen' By Hopkins & Rainey
>
>>>From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais.nul>
>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 15:42:28 +0100
>>>Subject: Re: Review Of 'Sight Unseen' By Hopkins & Rainey

>Gildas, Luis and List,

>With respect gentlemen, I think you are missing the point here.

>I am not suggesting that the book should not be subjected to
>analytical review, but by the very nature of the subject matter,
>it will inevitably fall down on that score. I am sure there are
>countless holes in it that can be picked till they bleed.

>I regard the book, which I enjoyed enormously, as a very brave
>attempt by the authors to take the subject of abduction one
>stage further. And in doing so I think Hopkins and Rainey have
>taken a massive and admirable gamble with their professional
>reputations.

>If Hopkins is convinced of the veracity of a witnesses testimony
>(and as he revealed, he has various means of checking) and yet
>the story falls outside even the parameters of the extremely
>broad boundaries that this subject already imposes, then what is
>he to do? Given his intellect and experience, he will attempt to
>offer some "reasonable" explanation, and that is exactly what he
>and Carol have done. All that Carol, on the science side of
>things has done is to pull together a number of both existing
>and original ideas, as well as solid facts, put them together in
>a reasoned and thought out manner, and then say, "This is what
>might have happened". She's not saying, "This is definitely what
>happened".  It's placed before you gentlemen for your reasoned
>and considered opinion. As I read it, they don't want you to
>take what they say as fact. These are ideas, intelligently
>posited and thoughtfully constructed and laid before the reader
>to think about. Of course, it is your choice to reject or
>accept.

>Hopkins admits that it took him, as I remember, close to two
>decades to get his thoughts in order on this. He's aware of the
>risk he's taking, and it appears, not without some discomfort. I
>for one applaud his and Carol's bravery. I think it is a
>landmark book and, as I mentioned in my own review, I think
>their ideas will gradually, over time, gain acceptance and
>filter through into mainstream thinking. Rip it apart,
>gentlemen, by all means, but I will not be looking at the detail
>too closely.

Hello Stuart, All,

You wrote:

>My preference is to stand back and take a broader view.

After having spent almost 6 years working closely with Budd, I
would venture to say that you have taken the material, related
to it, in the way it was intended you should by Budd. People who
dismiss Budd too quickly are invariably people who do not know
him at all. Who have no idea about the expansive and deep
intellect they are 'blowing off.'

Budd used to broach this subject of 'invisibility' with me from
time to time. I have to admit that even though I am an abductee,
I was intellectually 'uncomfortable' discussing the mere
possibility of something like that. Budd wasn't. He always goes
where the data leads him. And that in spite of any personal or
intellectual difficulties he may have with the concept himself.

I'm actually not surprised at some of the 'conclusions' (if they
can properly be called that) that Budd has arrived at. At his
core he is first and foremost a creative artist of some note and
reputation. As a creative person he has a proven ability to be
able to think in 'quantum leaps.' Budd Hopkins has
_historically_ been at least twenty-five years ahead of everyone
else in his work and his thinking. I suspect it's going to take
about that long for the rest of us to catch up with where Budd
is with the research right now.

Excellent review Stuart. You're a bright, perceptive fellow!

Regards,

John Velez









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   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   Feb > Feb 4

                       Re: State Of Ufology - Gehrman

From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman.nul>
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 11:18:15 -0800
Fwd Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 16:39:10 -0500
Subject: Re: State Of Ufology - Gehrman


>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 22:13:19 +0000
>Subject: State Of Ufology

>Okay, here goes! The "State of Ufology" begins with the
>oxymoronic use of a term that implies that science is being
>done. In all likelihood, more science is being done here on this
>List and by a handful of private individuals than by the formal
>scientific community in its entirety.

Richard, By "more science" do you mean something similar to this
quote by James Randi:

"Science is best defined as a careful, disciplined, logical
search for knowledge about any and all aspects of the universe,
obtained by examination of the best available evidence and
always subject to correction and improvement upon discovery of
better evidence. What's left is magic. And it doesn't work."

If so, then I think most of the List members would agree.

>But (reflective of society
>in general) all too much of the discussion here and elsewhere
>consists of gullible acceptance of unverified information at
>face value, illogical opinionizing, and wild surmise. So, the
>state of Ufology is pretty pitiful.

You'll have to be a bit more specific than these clich=E9d
exaggerations. Your characterizations don't fit the List I read
every day.

>Why is this so? Two primary reasons: (1) Very little (almost no)
>money is available to support truly scientific projects by
>attracting well-qualified people;

There are tons of qualified people looking at the UFO mystery.
And most don't require any additional funds to carry out
successful research and discovery. The problem is that most UFO
research is being ignored by the scientific establishment for
political reasons, not scientific.

>(2) kooks, con-men, and ax-
>grinders who form exploitative organizations and put on pseudo-
>scientific conferences continue to dominate the scene and to be
>what skeptical journalists and others see as constituting
>"Ufology". It's that simple.

It is not that simple. Again, you need to be more specific, but
I sure don't see things this way. The "kooks, con-men, and ax-
 grinders( whatever that might mean)" are not a major
distraction. We are all being skillfully manunipulated and
ignored by powerful forces for reasons we don't understand.

>Basically, there is no such thing in any meaningful sense as
>"Ufology". There are some very dedicated people

No, there are many dedicated people!

>who have tried
>hard, some for a very long time, to try to bring order and
>reason into the study of UFOs. With very little success
>overall.

I disagree. We've been very successful in convincing the general
public that there is/has been a cover-up of UFO information by
powerful interests.


Ed








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              Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Hebert

From: Amy Hebert <vanguard.nul>
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 13:49:16 -0600
Fwd Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 16:41:16 -0500
Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Hebert


>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 16:23:14 -0500
>Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph

>>From: Dan Bright <ufo.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 22:09:29 -0000
>>Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph

>>Date and time are ascertained from the EXIF data, embedded
>>within the image.

>Cheeses, Mary and Joseph! I was going by the EXIF data that I
>got from the Photoshop reading of the embedded data! And I was
>jumping all over Amy Hebert about the time. I'm not apologizing
>though, hell, who knew? I went by the electronic information in
>the photo itself. As I'm sure others did also.

Hi, John:

I went by the photographer's testimony about the time he took
the photograph. I have found EXIF time and date data generally
unreliable.

I often rely on my daughter's digital camera as a back-up to my
digital camcorder because she gets pictures from other angles
while I videotape family get-togethers, etc. (I am an avid
scrapbooker/photo-album buff - "Precious Memories" is my little
business site, under construction). My daughter _never_ sets the
time and date correctly on her camera so I've learned to never
use the EXIF date/time data for her pictures. She's an amazing
artist tho!

>>Apologies for the mistake!

>It's allowed, Dan. No apology necessary really, we're all human
>here. I 'think!" :)

I agree, no apologies necessary, Dan. I think Dan did an outstanding
job and had the guts to admit his mistake. You da man, Dan! ;>

>Bruce Maccabee is making some inquiries, let's see what he comes
>up with. I still would like to know size, distance and speed
>estimates - if they ever get made.

Actually, I think we are beating a dead horse here and Bruce
probably has better things to do with his time. Personally, I am
through with the Whittlesea UFO and have filed it under
"unknown" until some real evidence is forthcoming.

We can speculate all day as to whether it 'looks' like a bird, a
bug or "flying saucer" but the bottom line is...we _do not_ know
what it was or was not. I prefer to spend my time working on
images and sightings with better photographs/video footage, at
least one eye-witness that actually saw the UFO (preferrably
multiple witnesses) and data that gives us clues as to what is
really going on.

>*Amy: I don't feel the need to apologize for anything I said in
>regard to the hard data I relied on for my estimations. I came
>by the information honestly and proceeded accordingly. I make no
>excuses for any of it. Especially my own perceptions.

I never expected an apology from you, John. I accept people as
they are.

>However, I want you to know that if you didn't always approach
>me in such a mean-spirited way as you do, insulting me every
>step of the way in each and every post, that a. you would not
>receive the 'in kind' responses that you get from me, and b.
>being a true gentleman you 'may have' gotten an apology out of
>me.

You, John, are the one who approaches not only me but others
with this tremendous chip on your shoulder. As I've said before,
I refuse to stoop to that level - it gets us no where. I'm here
to discuss the information, that's all.

I understand now that you feel "insulted" when I disagree with
your contentions. Believe me, John, if I felt the need to insult
you, I would do so in such a way there would be no doubts as to
my intentions. I simply see this forum as a place to discuss and
debate, not argue and accuse.

If you could see my face in person during our discussions, you
would see me smiling and even laughing. I never take life that
seriously, it's too damned short. We are here for each other and
that's what's important. Please don't take it all so personally,
I don't. Let's just have fun and help each other learn. OK?

;>

Amy








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             Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Balaskas

From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul>
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 11:57:39 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
Fwd Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 07:28:54 -0500
Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Balaskas


>From: Martin Shough <mshough.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 14:50:00 -0000
>Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph

<snip>

>On the other hand, if it was (say) a 50' saucer speed-blurred by
>displacing 1/3 of its own length in 1/125 sec then it would be
>about 3000' from the camera travelling at about 1300mph. This is
>not inconsistent with the photo either.

>From the point of view of the photographer viewing the scene
>through the camera the two scenarios are equivalent. He would be
>no more or less likely to notice the saucer than a nearby bird.
>But for a companion, presumably not looking through a camera
>viewfinder, a 1300 mph 50' saucer flying by would be a very much
>more noticeable object. Given that the photographer was not
>alone, and that nobody noticed the saucer, the bird hypothesis
>has to be considered the more likely.

Hi Martin!

If I can share my thoughts with the List, I have to say that I
would agree with Martin.

If the object in the Whittlesea picture is such a large object
and the effective shutter speed was around 1/125 seconds, then
from the motion blurring and simple trig calculations we would
come up with a supersonic velocity.

If our assumptions were valid ones and the object was indeed
moving this fast, it then begs the question - Why was a sonic
boom not heard? Others on the list who have also closely
examined this UFO image claim to see evidence of heating effects
or changes in the refractive index of the air around the UFO -
 something we would expect in a shock wave produced by a very
fast moving object.

We know that birds and UFOs exist and but there are very likely
many million more birds in the skies all over the world at any
given time for every UFO or unknown flying through the same
skies. This fact and from our growing database of bird and bug
images captured on film and video which look very similar to the
image in the Whittlesea, we should not readily dismiss the bird
explanation in the same way debunkers would that do their UFO
research by proclamation and by too quickly dismissing the
observations of others.


Nick Balaskas









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              Re: Michael J. Woods On NASA's Motives - Stanford

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 14:59:19 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 07:31:08 -0500
Subject: Re: Michael J. Woods On NASA's Motives - Stanford


>From: Lan Fleming <lfleming5.nul>
>To: UFO Updates <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 18:51:32 -0600
>Subject: Re: Michael J. Woods On NASA's Motives

>>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 10:53:49 -0500
>>Subject: Re: Michael J. Woods On NASA's Motives

>>>Speaking of different organizations internal to NASA having
>>>different agendas: I recently read in disbelief that Northwest
>>>Airlines has admitted sending personal information about their
>>>passengers to NASA without the passengers knowing about it. It
>>>almost sounds like a paranoid conspiracy theory, but it
>>>apparently is a fact that NASA has been involved in what amounts
>>>to spying on the public in the name of national security. It
>>>makes me wonder if acronym "NASA" now stands for the National
>>>Airline Spy Agency. I doubt that whatever NASA group is involved
>>>in these covert intelligence activities cares much about whether
>>>or not there's life on Mars - unless the Martians are booking
>>>flights on Northwest.

>>Hold on, Lan! Put on your thinking cap for a minute!

>>It's ironic that you don't name the source in which you read
>>that. Is that source too unreliable to give it credit in a
>>public forum? When you quote such a ridiculous claim you should
>>name the source and let us evaluate it for ourselves.

>My apologies. I had thought nearly everyone would have read
>about it in the newspapers, like I did. It's also been reported
>by the Associated Press, CNN, etc. Here's the CNN article on it:

>http://money.cnn.com/2004/01/21/news/companies/northwest_suit/

>"NEW YORK (CNN/Money) - Northwest Airlines faces a class-action
>lawsuit and potential civil penalties after the No. 4 U.S.
>carrier acknowledged that it provided passenger information to
>NASA, according to a published report Wednesday."

>Like I said, it does sound like a paranoid conspiracy delusion,
>but if it's in all the papers, I assume it's true.

Thanks, Lan. That's bizarre in the extreme, and very surprising.
Sorry, I was a bit distracted from the news because things like
the suicide of a good friend, recently, and the sudden natural
death of my very beloved eldest brother early the past Monday
morning.

The only excuse I can think of that NASA might have for
requesting such data is that many of their employees frequently
have to travel by air to attend business matters, and that maybe
they want to try and learn which airline routes might be safest
due to their less frequently being used by persons who are being
watched in interest of homeland security. I would deem that a
valid concern. Whatever the reason, some people might rest more
comfortably if NASA would enlighten them as to just why they are
collecting such data as though they were an intelligence agency.
Yet, with our nation laboring under the most information-
repressive regime in history, we will probably never know.


Ray Stanford








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                           Law To Protect Bigfoot?

From: Louise A. Lowry <ShnSassy1.nul>
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 14:02:13 -0600
Fwd Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 07:36:17 -0500
Subject: Law To Protect Bigfoot?


Source: Capital News 9 - Albany, NY

http://www.capitalnews9.com/content/headlines/?ArID=57411&SecID=33

1/29/200


Man calls for law to protect Bigfoot

By: Chris Hamilton

Whitehall is known as the birthplace of the U.S. Navy, but if
one man gets his way, it may soon add "Protector of Bigfoot" to
its resume.

Paul Bartholomew, a local researcher, said, "I proposed a
protective ordinance for these creatures in the Whitehall area
which would protect these creatures under the law, and it would
also recognize these creatures."

Bartholomew has asked the Whitehall town board to pass a
resolution that would make it illegal to shoot Bigfoot. He said
the idea is mostly symbolic, adding it would be a step toward
bringing notoriety and tourists to the area, much like the lake
monster Champ does for Lake Champlain.

Bartholomew said the proposal is similar to one Port Henry
officials passed to protect their favorite monster.

In 1976, there reportedly was a Bigfoot sighting in Whitehall on
Abair Road. And some said there were other nearby sightings in
northern New York, and across the border in Vermont.

[Watch The Video: Link]

Protecting Bigfoot

Whitehall is known as the birthplace of the U.S. Navy, but if
one man gets his way, it may soon add "Protector of Bigfoot" to
its resume.

Bartholomew said, "What was sighted out there was a large
creature, 7 to 8 feet tall, walking like a gorilla hunched over,
making a sound like a woman screaming. While it was a landmark
case, it was just one that forms a chain of sightings which goes
back to the Algonquin and Iroquois."

Ultimately, Bartholomew hopes to bring a museum to Whitehall to
mark all the sightings in the area.

Bartholomew said, "We should have a museum exhibit, based on
this phenomenon, and I think it would draw tourists as well, and
maybe even a festival."

The Whitehall town board will review the resolution at its next
meeting on Feb. 5.

--

World Of The Strange http://www.worldofthestrange.com
Para-Discussion List: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Para-Discuss/







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               Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Velez

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 15:40:16 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 07:39:06 -0500
Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Velez


>From: Diane Harrison <auforn.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 07:59:21 +1000
>Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph

>>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 13:26:44 -0800
>>Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph

>Hi Amy, John,Larry, everyone.

>Sorry  a correction

>>3) Which way does Beveridge Road run? E-W as I
>>might presume?

>The township of Merriang due east before Beverage and is due
>north to Whittlesea which is some 10klm (correction )--->
>southeast of either. (not northeast)


Hello Diane,

It is very important that any questions being asked by Bruce
Maccabee be given top priority. In his first post to this thread
he asked several technical questions in regard to the Whittlesea
photo. Is anybody on the case gathering the information he
requested?

It would be great if the cameraman could be put in direct
contact with Bruce. We'll soon have some answers to a
few very important questions. If you can arrange for these
two gentlemen to communicate, it would be a tremendous
service to us all, Diane.

Thank you in advance for any assistance you can provide in this
matter.


Regards,

John Velez








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             Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Harrison

From: Diane Harrison <auforn.nul>
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 07:14:26 +1000
Fwd Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 07:41:54 -0500
Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Harrison


>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 01:39:30 -0800
>Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph

>>From: Diane Harrison <auforn.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul,
>>Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 13:36:43 +1000
>>Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph

>>>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 13:26:44 -0800
>>>Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph

Hi Larry

>Please see inserted notes below .. -LH

><snip>

>>Just talked to Peter Taylor the reporter

>>Roland was facing west when he took the picture so the object
>>was in the west. Sun rises in the east sets in the west
>>approximate time 2.00 pm . The train was running to the right in
>>the image it had just left Melbourne.

>Ah! Then the train was headed North. If that was from left to
>right from the vantage point of the photographer, then he had to
>be facing West.

Correct.

>>He was facing west Larry.

>>The railway runs north to south Melbourne to New South Wales.

>OK! Then it can _not_ be the yellow line on this map (look North
>from the grey box for central Melbourne ..) but rather the _red_
>line going thru Craigieburn, Donnybrook, Beveridge .. Wandong
>etc. and beyond. Is this correct at least?

>http://www.cdi.com.au/~johnc/rlyv-s.gif

Correct.

>>Due East of Beveridge township by 6lkm and 30 to 40klm direct
>>north of Melbourne.

>Sixty One kilometers east of Beveridge? Did you mean 6.1 km?
>Please refer to that same map (link above) again. 61 km East of
>Beveridge (as shown) would put you way east of Whittlsea.

The railway crossing is 6km due east of Beveridge and Beveridge
is 61km south of Melbourne CBD

>>West toward Beverage township - population of Beverage
>>approximately 200 to 300 hundred. It has 2 local pubs one of
>>which is the local shop for everything.

A hot day Larry ha!

>I'm sure they have Beverages too, but isn't the town named
>Beveridge? That's what shows on the map.

Correct - my mistake.

>In any case, I hope nobody minds if somebody goes out there
>independantly, confirms the location by comparing to the news
>photo, verifies the orientation of the camera, and tidies up the
>exact spot. News reporters are famous for screwing up things
>like this.

Yes I understand but Peter is from a small town print run his
reputation for correct reporting would be paramount. He has been
really good and helpful, I have been keeping him uptodate with
what has been going on world wide and I have asked if he would
like to answer some of lists questions.

He said he's fine with AUFORN answering most questions and Larry
I call Peter if there isn't  a question I have the answer for.

>This sounds like an ideal use for a GPS unit BTW. I wish I had
>one just to play with, rather expensive still.

Yes they're on our wish list to, our investigator in WA has one
but we have yet to get more for other states.

>I hope nobody relies on a magnetic compass of all things! Go to
>any large sporting goods store. Lay one of each type on the
>counter. No two will point in the same direction. A good local
>map will do, I mean a professionally produced one with an arrow
>indicating North etc., and not some rag showing directions to a
>night club or whatever.

Agree.

>Is Beveridge township quite far from the station shown
>on the rail map above? Maybe that could explain the 61
>kilometres perhaps?

There are no rail stops at Beveridge only at Donny Brook which
is (south) of Beveridge or Wallan which is (North) of Beveridge.

V-Line Rail & Coach links:

http://www.vlinepassenger.com.au/about.html

http://www.vlinepassenger.com.au/map2.html


>Sorry for all the questions, I hate geographical loose ends.

Its okay Larry  only to happy to help.

I have just received another photo of UFO taken on film not
digital. Will have it up on the web some time today. Redland Bay
area.

--

Regards Diane Harrison

National Director of The Australian UFO Research Network
Australian Skywatch Director

~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>
THE AUSTRALIAN UFO RESEARCH NETWORK
(A Non-Profit Organization)

E-Mail: auforn.nul
E-mail: ufologist.nul
http://www.hypermax.net.au/~auforn

ADMINISTRATION:

PO Box 738
Beaudessert 4285
QLD  Australia
Tel 07 55 44 6888
~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>
Australian UFO Research Network Hotline Number
          1800 77 22 88 Freecall
~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>








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                     Re: Review Of Sight Unseen - Harney

From: John Harney <magonia.nul>
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 21:15:29 -0000
Fwd Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 07:44:08 -0500
Subject: Re: Review Of Sight Unseen - Harney


>From: Stuart Miller <Stuart.Miller4.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 17:27:53 -0000
>Subject: Re: Review Of Sight Unseen

>>From: Luis R. Gonzalez <lrgm.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 00:08:05 +0100
>>Subject: Re: Review Of 'Sight Unseen' By Hopkins & Rainey

>>>From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais.nul>
>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 15:42:28 +0100
>>>Subject: Re: Review Of 'Sight Unseen' By Hopkins & Rainey


>With respect gentlemen, I think you are missing the point here.

>I am not suggesting that the book should not be subjected to
>analytical review, but by the very nature of the subject matter,
>it will inevitably fall down on that score. I am sure there are
>countless holes in it that can be picked till they bleed.

>I regard the book, which I enjoyed enormously, as a very brave
>attempt by the authors to take the subject of abduction one
>stage further. And in doing so I think Hopkins and Rainey have
>taken a massive and admirable gamble with their professional
>reputations.

Hopkins has a professional reputation as an artist; what he does
or does not believe about UFOs is hardly relevant to it.

>If Hopkins is convinced of the veracity of a witnesses testimony
>(and as he revealed, he has various means of checking) and yet

If he _really_ has various means of checking why doesn't he tell
us what they are?

>the story falls outside even the parameters of the extremely
>broad boundaries that this subject already imposes, then what is
>he to do? Given his intellect and experience, he will attempt to
>offer some "reasonable" explanation, and that is exactly what he
>and Carol have done. All that Carol, on the science side of

Reasonable explanation? What reasonable explanation? You're
joking, surely?

>things has done is to pull together a number of both existing
>and original ideas, as well as solid facts, put them together in
>a reasoned and thought out manner, and then say, "This is what
>might have happened". She's not saying, "This is definitely what
>happened".  It's placed before you gentlemen for your reasoned
>and considered opinion. As I read it, they don't want you to
>take what they say as fact. These are ideas, intelligently
>posited and thoughtfully constructed and laid before the reader
>to think about. Of course, it is your choice to reject or
>accept.

The ideas are utterly crazy and incoherent. It isn't a question
of accepting or  rejecting - Hopkins and Rainey's pseudo-
scientific speculations just don't make sense.

>Hopkins admits that it took him, as I remember, close to two
>decades to get his thoughts in order on this. He's aware of the
>risk he's taking, and it appears, not without some discomfort. I
>for one applaud his and Carol's bravery. I think it is a
>landmark book and, as I mentioned in my own review, I think
>their ideas will gradually, over time, gain acceptance and
>filter through into mainstream thinking. Rip it apart,
>gentlemen, by all means, but I will not be looking at the detail
>too closely. My preference is to stand back and take a broader
>view.

That's right - so long as it's a good read, why bother with the
details or whether it makes sense or not? If you like fantastic
yarns, why not read science fiction?


John Harney








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              Re: Michael J. Woods On NASA's Motives - Stanford

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 17:17:42 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 07:46:45 -0500
Subject: Re: Michael J. Woods On NASA's Motives - Stanford


>From: Lan Fleming <lfleming5.nul>
>To: UFO Updates <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 18:51:32 -0600
>Subject: Re: Michael J. Woods On NASA's Motives

>>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 10:53:49 -0500
>>Subject: Re: Michael J. Woods On NASA's Motives

>>Lan said:

>>>Speaking of different organizations internal to NASA having
>>>different agendas: I recently read in disbelief that Northwest
>>>Airlines has admitted sending personal information about their
>>>passengers to NASA without the passengers knowing about it. It
>>>almost sounds like a paranoid conspiracy theory, but it
>>>apparently is a fact that NASA has been involved in what amounts
>>>to spying on the public in the name of national security. It
>>>makes me wonder if acronym "NASA" now stands for the National
>>>Airline Spy Agency. I doubt that whatever NASA group is involved
>>>in these covert intelligence activities cares much about whether
>>>or not there's life on Mars - unless the Martians are booking
>>>flights on Northwest.

<snip>

I think the link below gives us a fairly good idea of why NASA
received the data from Northwest Airlines. If it make us all as
airline passengers potentially safer from scumbags (to borrow a
term from John Walsh of America's Most Wanted) and potentially
dangerous psychotics, I may not worry too much, while admitting
that it really seems more than just a wee bit out of NASA's
purview! Let each decide for himself or herself, however:

http://www.wired.com/news/privacy/0%2C1848%2C61987%2C00.html


Ray Stanford

"You know my method. It is founded upon the observance of
trifles." -- Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery








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                         Re: State Of Ufology - Hall

From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 22:25:39 +0000
Fwd Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 07:49:28 -0500
Subject: Re: State Of Ufology - Hall


>From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 11:18:15 -0800
>Subject: Re: State Of Ufology

>>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 22:13:19 +0000
>>Subject: State Of Ufology

<snip>

>>Basically, there is no such thing in any meaningful sense as
>>"Ufology". There are some very dedicated people

>No, there are many dedicated people!

>>who have tried
>>hard, some for a very long time, to try to bring order and
>>reason into the study of UFOs. With very little success
>>overall.

>I disagree. We've been very successful in convincing the general
>public that there is/has been a cover-up of UFO information by
>powerful interests.


Ed,

So, we strongly disagree. That's fine. I''m merely expressing my
opinion, and you are expressing yours.

But "We are all being skillfully manipulated and ignored by
powerful forces...?" How paranoid is that? I gave you rather
succinct reasons why we are being ignored, which you don't seem
to comprehend. Also, we haven't succeeded in convincing very
many people who really matter (i.e., who have it in their power
to change things) at all.

Please define the "general public" and how you imagine they
alone will be able to change things.


 - Dick







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               Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Velez

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 18:17:31 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 07:52:51 -0500
Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Velez


>From: Amy Hebert <vanguard.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 13:49:16 -0600
>Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph

>>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 16:23:14 -0500
>>Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph

>>>From: Dan Bright <ufo.nul>
>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 22:09:29 -0000
>>>Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph

>>>Date and time are ascertained from the EXIF data, embedded
>>>within the image.

>>Cheeses, Mary and Joseph! I was going by the EXIF data that I
>>got from the Photoshop reading of the embedded data! And I was
>>jumping all over Amy Hebert about the time. I'm not apologizing
>>though, hell, who knew? I went by the electronic information in
>>the photo itself. As I'm sure others did also.

>I went by the photographer's testimony about the time he took
>the photograph. I have found EXIF time and date data generally
>unreliable.

Hello Amy, All,

I wrote:

>>Bruce Maccabee is making some inquiries, let's see what he comes
>>up with. I still would like to know size, distance and speed
>>estimates - if they ever get made.

You respond:

>Actually, I think we are beating a dead horse here and Bruce
>probably has better things to do with his time.

I have to disagree, Amy. Calling the dialog surrounding this most
recent UFO photo 'beating a dead horse' is premature in the
extreme. This photo is far from being something to be put on
a shelf to collect dust or so easily dismissed.

What's the hurry?

Bruce has started asking questions. I for one would like to see
them answered. And then I'd like to hear what Bruce has derived
from the information about the photo. I have asked Diane in Oz
if she would be so kind as to follow up and see if the cameraman
can not be put into direct communication with Bruce. That way he
can get whatever information he may require straight from the
horses mouth. I'd still like to know about details like, size,
distance and speed of the object whose image was captured.
Securing some of those answers will help us a great deal in
resolving some of the disputes about what it may be we are all
looking at. (If not tell us what it is, certainly it will help
us to eliminate a few of the things that have been suggested.)

Way too early to call it a day on this one.

>Personally, I am
>through with the Whittlesea UFO and have filed it under
>"unknown" until some real evidence is forthcoming.

That's what we're hoping to ascertain, Amy. We won't get any
answers at all if everybody follows your lead and 'files it
away' somewhere. Getting answers takes effort/work. It doesn't
matter if we make a few boners along the way or whether we
diagree or not as to what it was that was captured in that
picture. All that matters is that we work hard and hopefully
together, to get the answers that the establishment will never
provide for us.

In other words, if we don't 'do it ourselves' the very real
possibility is; that it will never get done at all. Get off the
bench and get back out here. As long as there are enough of us
willing to do the work, the chances are stronger of getiing
(even a few) answers that we would not have had if we all sat
back and waited for something remarkable to surface of its own
volition. Don't lay down now. Too early for a nap.

>>*Amy: I don't feel the need to apologize for anything I said in
>>regard to the hard data I relied on for my estimations. I came
>>by the information honestly and proceeded accordingly. I make no
>>excuses for any of it. Especially my own perceptions.

>I never expected an apology from you, John. I accept people as
>they are.

Had to lob at least 'one' little insult in there eh? Old habits
are hard to break I suppose.  <g>

>You, John, are the one who approaches not only me but others
>with this tremendous chip on your shoulder.

That's not true at all. Read my communications with others on
the List, Amy. I don't do not suffer fools very well, no excuses
offered for that. I don't take insults very well either. But
then, I've never made any claims of being 'Saint' anybody. Much
less, Saint John.

We _all_ have our faults and shortcomings, Amy. The trick is
always trying to get past all that surface/personality crap for
a peek inside at what is basically the 'good' person within all
(or most) of us.

Don't mistake my impatience with certain things and certain
types of people as signs that I am some kind of 'ogre'. Flaws,
warts and all, I'm really not a 'bad' sort.

Hey, don't take my word for it. Ask a few people who have
actually taken the time to get to know me. Locally, without
going very far you can ask; Errol, Greg Sandow, Dick Hall, Stan
Friedman, GT Mc Coy, Bill Weber, Alfred Lehmberg, Katarina
Wilson and any number of others, all about me. You trust some of
their judgement to some degree don't you? I think you'll find
out that you have seriously, and -wrongly- misjudged me. A lot
of this misunderstanding between us could even be 'cultural'
Amy. You're from the wide open spaces and smiling faces of
Texas, and I'm basically a hard-bitten, born and raised on the
streets of Manhattan city brat. You don a hard outer shell early
in life under 'urban guerilla' conditions. What you may perceive
as a 'chip on my shoulder' may in fact be something else
altogether. Ask some of the folks I suggested, I think you'll be
surprised at the 'positive' feedback.

>We are here for each other and that's what's important.

>Let's just have fun and help each other learn. OK?

That's a good place to start. Count me in.

Regards,

John








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                      NASA Chief Plans New Space Quests

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 16:48:47 -0800
Fwd Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 07:55:39 -0500
Subject: NASA Chief Plans New Space Quests


Source: SFGate.com - San Francisco, CA

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2004/02/04/MNG
FU4OFNH1.DTL&type=science

Wednesday, February 4, 2004

NASA chief plans new space quests
Humans may return to moon by 2015

NASA's proposed budget should increase by about 5 percent per
year over the next three years, and would lay the groundwork for
returning robots to the lunar surface within five years, and
perhaps humans by 2015, NASA Administrator Sean O'Keefe said
Tuesday.

If approved by Congress, the National Aeronautics and Space
Administration's proposed budget for fiscal year 2005 would be
$16.2 billion, a 5.6 percent increase over the $15.4 billion
budget for fiscal year 2004.

By far the single biggest budget change is a proposed $70
million study of the feasibility of renewed lunar exploration.

That outlay would lay the groundwork for renewed lunar robotic
landers in 2009, followed by human flights "as early as 2015,"
according to NASA's budget statement.

Expected annual spending for lunar exploration should increase
to $420 million by fiscal year 2009, the statement says. Also,
the proposed budget line for Mars exploration research in fiscal
year 2005 is $691 million, compared with $595 million this year.

Last month, President Bush announced an ambitious plan to return
Americans to the moon in the next decade and to head for Mars
after that. But it faces considerable opposition on Capitol Hill
from Republicans worried about the costs and Democrats who want
the money spent on domestic programs.

In his national televised hookup with journalists, O'Keefe
defended the plan.

"This (space) exploration vision is affordable, fiscally
responsible and sustainable," he said. "As the president stated
in his (Jan. 14) speech, we are embarking on a journey, not a
race."

O'Keefe gave no specifics about how the budget increase might
affect NASA's Ames Research Center in Mountain View. Even so,
officials there are optimistic that Ames will play an important
role in helping to fulfill the president's vision for space
exploration.

For one thing, a key goal of Mars exploration is to determine
whether the Red Planet ever had life, or can shed light on the
evolution of life in our planetary system. That will tally
neatly with Ames' focus on astrobiology, the scientific study of
extraterrestrial life, its origins and evolution.

"Our scientific focus is squarely in the middle of this
(presidential) vision," said Ames Director Scott Hubbard.

At an all-hands meeting with Ames employees after Bush's speech,
the staff was "very positive, excited," Hubbard said.

O'Keefe also said he expects a substantial savings -- more than
$4 billion annually -- from the phase-out of the technically
troubled space shuttle fleet over the next decade.










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                              The Beveridge UFO

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 18:36:22 -0800
Fwd Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 08:00:57 -0500
Subject: The Beveridge UFO


Hello Gang,

Forgive me for changing gears with the "Whittlesea Thread," but
it seemed like it was time.

Wow! I just finished re-reading the aforementioned thread and
if we could get the 'powers-that-be' to put half as much energy
into investigating the UFO phenomenon publicly, that has been
expended here on the List, I don't believe there would be any
mystery to it all.

Kudos to all of you who took the time to analyze the pic and
make comment - in particular Amy, John, Dan, Diane, Larry, and
not forgetting Don, Ray, Steve, Tim, GT, Dick, Alfred, and
anyone I may have forgotten that took the time to put their
two-cents in.

I was very impressed with the quick reaction and work done on
this photograph in just a few days. Moreover, my hat is off to
John W. Auchettl of PRA (Phenomena Research Australia) for his
original post, as well as Diane Harrison of The Australian UFO
Research Network and her expeditious response.

Although the data in this instance was minimal - a blurry thingy
in a photograph - the events that followed deserve merit; that
is the collection, collation, evaluation and dissemination of
said data.

Although the efforts were 'individual', i.e., not under one
direction - they did have 'commonality' via this List, (thank
you Errol) and did have one goal, i.e., "what the hell is it?"

There were/are people in 4 countries working on this - (that
I've counted). Just think all of this started with a guy that
works for the city, doing his job snapping a picture of a
railroad-crossing. Oh and let's not forget the unusual
occurrence of the city fathers bringing this to the public's
attention - how often does that happen?

Aside from acknowledging the terrific work done by all in the
last few days, it was also very interesting to note the
different interpretations of the object in the photograph. Some
said it was definitely a flying saucer with a dome, others a
bird etc. Some thought it was a hoax, i.e., a 'cut-and-paste
job'.

Of course in regard to this event barring any other evidence,
we're back to the beginning - a blurry thingy in a photograph of
a railroad-crossing, however, we are left with so much more -
that is the knowledge of what can get done with a concerted
effort from those of us that have chosen to take interest in
what we call Ufology - the key being the expeditious collection,
collation, evaluation and dissemination of the data surrounding
a UFO event! Kudos to you all again!

Oh and by the way - the thingy in the picture was a bug flying
by in close proximity to the camera!

Cheers,

Frank









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                     UFOs Disappear From Northern Norway

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 18:44:19 -0800
Fwd Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 08:04:40 -0500
Subject: UFOs Disappear From Northern Norway


Source: TV 2 - Norway

http://pub.tv2.no/nettavisen/english/article181928.ece

04.02.04


A new, unexplainable phenomenon has surfaced; why are the UFO
sightings in northern Norway decreasing?

A number of unexplainable sightings have been made on the
northern sky. There were 26 observations of UFOs in northern
Norway in 2002, but last year the number decreased to 13.

"Unexplainable," said Leif-Norman Solhaug, leader of UFO Nord-
Norge. "Maybe people are just fed up with the hysteria. The 26
observations that were reported in 2002 were a decrease from the
years before. There have normally been a number of observations
made in northern Norway, but it has not turned. There is a weak
decline in the rest of the country too."

Unidentified
UFO Norway has still registered a number of unexplainable
observations.

Something which looked like a rocket was observed in Finnmark,
an object similar to a boomerang of the size of an Boeing 747
was observed in Bod=F8, while a man in Evenskjer observed two
stars which rotated around each other and then disappeared at a
high sped in the direction of the Big Dipper.

"These are complicated observations and the Air Force has not
registered any explainable activity on the sky, but in total the
number of observations in northern Norway has decreased,"
Solhaug stated.

Embarrassing
However, he claims that the reason for the decline may be that
people have become better at finding natural explanations, but
Solhaug cannot guarantee that the natural explanations are
logical.

"People think it=92s embarrassing to go public with such
observations," Solhaug said. "It is important that we are taken
seriously. Many of the observations reported are of a
complicated nature and are difficult to explain."

Regardless, Solhaug has enough to do. Solhaug is off to talk two
to persons from And=F8ya tonight. They claim they saw something
they just could not explain Tuesday night as a lighted object
flew over the sky, blinking in several different colors and
making a horrid sound.









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              Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Hebert

From: Amy Hebert <vanguard.nul>
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 20:48:55 -0600
Fwd Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 08:06:48 -0500
Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Hebert


>From: Diane Harrison <auforn.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul,
>Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 13:36:43 +1000
>Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph

>>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 13:26:44 -0800
>>Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph

>>>From: Dan Bright <ufo.nul>
>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 22:39:33 -0000
>>>Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph

<snip>

>Hi Amy, John,Larry, everyone.

>>>The azimuth of the sun at 14:52pm, for Whittlesea Australia
>>>(Lat: 37=B0 31' South, Long: 145=B0, 07' East), on January 15 2004
>>>would have been 29.9=B0. The Altitude would have been 71.5=B0:

>Just talked to Peter Taylor the reporter

>Roland was facing west when he took the picture so the object
>was in the west. Sun rises in the east sets in the west
>approximate time 2.00 pm . The train was running to the right in
>the image it had just left Melbourne.

Thank you, Diane.

With the photographer facing west, at the approximate time of
2:00pm, the sun would have been in _front_ of him not _behind_
his right shoulder. This correlates with my and Dan's
contentions as well as with the shadows in the photograph.

This neither proves the object was a "flying saucer" nor a bug
or anything other than some object in a photograph that
remains... unidentified.

I am still in shock that _anyone_ would go around calling it a
"flying saucer" with so little evidence to go on. <sigh> UFOlogy
has yet a long way to go. Thank God we have shining stars like
Dan, Diane and Ray (my thoughts and prayers are with you, Ray)
to light the way.


Sincerely,

A. Hebert








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                  Tracing The Flow Of The Gulf Breeze Money

From: Jerry Black <gulfbreezeinfo.nul>
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 19:13:29 -0800 (PST)
Fwd Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 08:19:45 -0500
Subject: Tracing The Flow Of The Gulf Breeze Money


February 4, 2004

Part I.

Tracing The Flow Of The Money

To Mr. Bruce Maccabee and other interested parties,

Mr. Bruce Maccabee, I've taken the time to read over your
response to my one hour, taped interview, concerning the Gulf
Breeze sightings.

Your replies are filled with illogical conclusions to very
simple events, in some cases outright lies.

For years, investigators inside the MUFON organization and
outside the MUFON organization have wondered why there was never
a disparaging word in print against the Ed Walters Gulf Breeze
sightings. In many of the journals, in your reports and other
investigator's reports in the MUFON organization, I cannot find
one disparaging word against Ed Walters's sightings or his
claims of abduction.

Early on in the investigation of the Gulf Breeze sightings, Mr.
Ed Walters offered to pay the MUFON organization thousands of
dollars to help defray the cost of the investigation of the Gulf
Breeze sightings. In another words, Ed Walters offered MUFON
money to help them investigate his own case.

Mr. Walt Andrus, at that time, director of the Mutual UFO
Network, accepted that money. By accepting that money, he
certainly created a conflict of interest. He also did not
acknowledge, to the general public, that he had received
thousands of dollars from Mr. Ed Walters to investigate the
case. Several investigators in the MUFON organization including
your self, Mr. Bruce Maccabee, knew this information. I have
never heard, in the history of ufology, of a subject under
investigation by a UFO organization, paying for his own
investigation.

The agreement that Walter Andrus had with Mr. Ed Walters was the
money would then be given to either the Fund for UFO Research or
to the MUFON Organization.

At that point, the monies were then given to you, Mr. Bruce
Maccabee either from the Fund for UFO Research or directly from
the MUFON organization. This was done because you were one of
the lead investigators in the Ed Walter's Gulf Breeze sightings.

Mr. Bruce Maccabee, you have said, for the past twelve years you
never received any monies from Ed Walters, other than the
eighteen thousand dollars for your part in writing a chapter in
his book. However, you did receive, as I stated early, thousands
of dollars, some saying as much as twenty thousand dollars from
the Fund for UFO Research or the MUFON organization, which was
donated to them by Mr. Ed Walters.

So no matter how you look at it Mr. Maccabee, the money came
from Mr. Ed. Walters pocket.

You neglected to tell people about the thousands of dollars you
received from one of those two organizations. This explains why
every time Ed Walters stumbled during his reporting of his
pictures and his abductions, you were always there to pick him
up. You Mr. Maccabee, were Mr. Ed Walters paid investigator. You
were not working for the Fund for UFO Research or the MUFON
organization, you sir, were working for Mr. Ed Walters.

It clearly shows in the way you handled the entire
investigation. Both, Mr. Walt Andrus and yourself are to blame
here for accepting monies from the subject during an ongoing
investigation. You gentlemen are embarrassments to the UFO
community.

This also explains why Mr. Ed Walters was privy to all
information, almost immediately, that was given to you in
confidential basis.

When you pay thousands of dollars to an organization, you expect
to be part and included in all aspects of the investigation.

This certainly was true when Rex Salisberry turned in his report
requested by the MUFON organization. Immediately upon his report
being turned over to the MUFON organization, Ed Walters was made
aware of everything in the report.

Also, my own personal experience was with Mr. William G. Hyzer
concerning his report that was issued to Rex Salisberry and to
Walt Andrus. The understating was, this report was to be read
only by people in the MUFON organization and of course, Mr. Rex
Salisberry.

Within 48 hours after his report was issued to the MUFON
organization, Mr. William G. Hyzer received in the mail a
letter, airmail express, stating to him that these pictures were
copyrighted and he was not to use them in any of his journals.

So how did Mr. Ed Walters obtain information on Rex's report and
William G. Hyzer's report almost instantaneously, when they were
received by the MUFON organization? The answer is he was privy
to everything because he was paying for the investigation.

In talking about the tracing of the flow of the money, we
certainly don't want to forget the five thousand dollars that
Mr. Bob Oechsler received from Mr. Ed Walters for doing some
work with the original pictures.

Mr. Bob Oechsler was Mr. Maccabee's 'yes' man. He also got into
Mr. Ed Walter's pockets.

I thought this was pretty much common knowledge throughout the
UFO community, but surprised to find out that many investigators
were not aware that Bob Oechsler had received five-thousand
dollars from Ed Walters. T

here is a very clear pattern here of Ed Walters trying to buy
support for his Gulf Breeze sightings case. In the case of
Bruce Maccabee, Walt Andrus and Bob Oechsler, he received that
support.

Mr. Bruce Maccabee it's time for you to come clean with the UFO
community.


Jerry Black can be reached at

1-877-731-8400 or

P.O. Box 125
Blanchester,
Ohio 45107







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             Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Maccabee

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 00:36:07 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 08:51:55 -0500
Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Maccabee


>From: Martin Shough <mshough.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 15:21:45 -0000
>Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph

>Sorry folks,

>Oops! Dumb error correction: Checking back, I should have said
>1/250 not 1/125sec, so the hypothetical bird in my illustration
>would travel around 1/5 of its own length during the exposure.
>But the proportionality is preserved of course and the substance
>of the argument is not altered.

Oops squared!

If Martin made a dumb error then I dumbly copied it. In the
message I sent before I calculated speeds based on 1/125 sec.
For 1/250 sec the speeds are doubled. In particular, the time
that the object could have been within the cameraman's forward
field of view would have been cut in half to about 1.5 sec. So,
if he blinked before or after taking the photo he would't have
seen it. As for other people seeing it, they wodl have half as
much time (30 sec to go from near horizon to near horizon if a
straight flight).

The conclusion is the same, however. The flight of a bird must
be ruled out before "escalation of hypotheses" (J. Allen Hynek)








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                    Re: Need Photos Of Utah Farm - Gates

From: Robert Gates <RGates8254.nul>
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 01:22:07 EST
Fwd Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 08:53:36 -0500
Subject: Re: Need Photos Of Utah Farm - Gates


>From: A. J. Gevaerd - Revista UFO <gevaerd.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 09:02:46 -0200
>Subject: Need Photos Of Utah Farm

>Dear Folks,

>I am publishing George Knapp's article about the Gorman's farm
>in Utah where very odd things happen. I wonder if any of you
>would have pictures of anything related to that farm to send me
>for the magazine.

>Please, if any of you can help me, send the pictures (with
>description and credit) to: gevaerd.nul

Hi AJ

Although the Knapp article refers to the ranch as the Gorman
ranch, the folks real name is/was Terry & Gwen Sherman. They
bought the ranch in 1995, then started having the various things
happen to them at the ranch. They went public with the story to
a number of people including David Perkins who wrote an article
about the ranch for Spirit Magazine, Deseret News Reporter Zack
Van Eyck in 1996 wrote quite an article. After the various
reports on it, they sold the ranch to NIDS/Bigelow for around
200,000 according to reports. NIDS has studied it for the past 7
or so years, and now George Knapp wrote an article about it.
 The one thing I found rather humorous about Knapps article is
how he used a phony name...when their real names are so readily
available and a matter of public record with a couple of mouse
clicks. Kind of trying to shut the barn door...after the horse
got out.

Most of the people involved have signed Non Disclosure Agreement
with NIDS/Bigelow at least according to various reports. Terry
Sherman allegedly was hired by Bigelow after he left the ranch
(supposedly Shermans moved to a smaller ranch about 15 miles
away) and is the foreman or whatever. People claim he is gagged
by a NDA with NIDS and the only reason Knapp got to talk to him
was because NIDS gave approval...or so the story goes.

The Utah UFO hunters have done a couple of ranch recons and they
have some good photos of the ranch on their web site under the
section dealing with the ranch. They have the most detailed web
site for the ranch and ranch related information on the web.
Dave Rosenfeld has done an excellent job. The link is
http://www.aliendave.com/UUFOH_TheRanch.html

As I recall there are 6 other ranch web page linked to the above
ones. You can get ahold of Dave about the photos at:

aliendave.nul


Cheers,

Robert









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              Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Ledger

From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 02:47:16 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 08:55:14 -0500
Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Ledger


>From: Diane Harrison <auforn.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul,
>Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 01:12:45 +1000
>Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph

>>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 01:04:39 -0400
>>Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph

>>>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 13:26:44 -0800
>>>Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph

>Hi Larry Don

>>The tracks could be, and probably are, a spur line, not a main
>>line.

>>It might end out of sight of the shot on the left or right
>>side at a siding. And since we know the time of day and can see
>>the shadows, the Sun had to be behind and to the right of the
>>photographer's right shoulder.

>>The photographer would have been facing approximately south when
>>he took the shot.

>The photographer's right shoulder was facing north and left was
>facing south and his face and camera were facing west towards
>the township of Beveridge.

>Reference: Peter Taylor reporter Whittlesea Leader phone call today.

>I asked Peter what was happening with the photo, his answer:
>The council have now adopted a low profile on the whole affair.


Thanks Diane,

I'm still somewhat conflicted by the shadows [angles] and the
time frame. They don't seem to add up.


Best,

Don Ledger









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                        Re: State Of Ufology - Young

From: Kenny Young <ufo.nul>
Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 03:14:46 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 08:56:15 -0500
Subject: Re: State Of Ufology - Young


>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 22:13:19 +0000
>Subject: State Of Ufology

>Okay, here goes! The "State of Ufology" begins with the
>oxymoronic use of a term that implies that science is being
>done. In all likelihood, more science is being done here on this
>List and by a handful of private individuals than by the formal
>scientific community in its entirety. But (reflective of society
>in general) all too much of the discussion here and elsewhere
>consists of gullible acceptance of unverified information at
>face value, illogical opinionizing, and wild surmise. So, the
>state of Ufology is pretty pitiful.

>Why is this so? Two primary reasons: (1) Very little (almost no)
>money is available to support truly scientific projects by
>attracting well-qualified people; (2) kooks, con-men, and ax-
>grinders who form exploitative organizations and put on pseudo-
>scientific conferences continue to dominate the scene and to be
>what skeptical journalists and others see as constituting
>"Ufology". It's that simple.

I appreciate and agree with this post.

I'm sure most folks on this list realize that 'pseudoscientific
conferences' happen because that is what is marketable. Most on
this list also agree that there are some 'snake oil salesmen'
involved in the UFO subject and their appearances at the various
conferences are usually due to business reasons. In blunt
honesty here, money talks. And as a former conference organizer
myself, I know.

I think it is fair to say the public is to blame, and there are
many reasons for their complacency and hypnotic gullibility. But
let's not pretend academia is entirely innocent in this whole
tragedy. If academia had not abandoned the UFO subject, the
snake-oil salesmen would not have stepped in to fill the vacuum,
hypnotize the masses and keep the topic alive, in many cases.

 - KY








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             Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Maccabee

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 00:23:50 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 08:59:42 -0500
Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Maccabee


>From: Martin Shough <mshough.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 14:50:00 -0000
>Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph

>A modest contribution to be ignored/jeered at (delete as
>appropriate):

>Suppose the telephone pole is 15' high at 50' from the camera,
>so subtending somewhere around 20 degrees, then the angular size
>of the blurred object is order of 1-1.5 degree. (This sort of
>rule-of-thumb calculation is relatively insensitive to
>variations of a few feet/degrees/mph here and there. Exact
>trigonometry could easily narrow down the range of possible
>values.)

Alternatively, one notes that the UO image width is comparable
to the width of the pole. Using Martin's estimated pole distance
one gets the angular width of the pole as 1/50 radian (approx)
which corresponds to about 1.1 deg (.0174 rad/degree; 57.3
deg/rad)

Therefore if the object were (say) 30' from camera it
>would be approx. 6" - 9" long. A 6" - 9" bird travelling normal
>to the optical axis at a speed of 20 mph will travel 1/3 - 1/2
>its own length in a shutter time of 1/125 sec and will show
>significant lateral speed blurring. This is not inconsistent
>with the photo.

Multiply the angle in radians by the (assumed) distance and get
the length as measured perpendicular to the line of sight.
(1/50) x 30 ft = 0.6 ft = 7.2 "

>On the other hand, if it was (say) a 50' saucer speed-blurred by
>displacing 1/3 of its own length in 1/125 sec then it would be
>about 3000' from the camera travelling at about 1300mph. This is
>not inconsistent with the photo either.

(1/50) x 3000 ft = 60 ft.

>From the point of view of the photographer viewing the scene
>through the camera the two scenarios are equivalent. He would be
>no more or less likely to notice the saucer than a nearby bird.
>But for a companion, presumably not looking through a camera
>viewfinder, a 1300 mph 50' saucer flying by would be a very much
>more noticeable object. Given that the photographer was not
>alone, and that nobody noticed the saucer, the bird hypothesis
>has to be considered the more likely.>

>As to whether the image looks like a bird, I think it does. Its
>flight attitude would be tilted towards the camera, left wing
>up, right wing down, travelling L to R, light-coloured upper
>wing surfaces sunlit. The 'saucer' highlights are due to the
>dihedral of the wings caught in a raised position between
>downbeats.

One of the most interesting aspects of the UO image is that it
appears to be more blurred at the left and right edges that at
the top and bottom edges, Simple defocus blur by itself, which
could happen if the UO were very small and close to the camera,
would make the edges of the image fuzzy or diffuse by the same
amount all the way around the edge, Since that does not appear
to be the case, one can say that the left-right edge blur was
caused by motion during the shutter time.

Given that there was motion, Mr. Shough proceeded in the correct
manner to determine what are the consequences of assuming that
the image blur was caused by motion. Since we don't know how far
away it was we don't know how big it was, only that it traveled
some fraction of its length during the shutter time. The farther
and larger we assume it to be, the faster it must have been
going. But the angular rate of speed (distance
traveled/distance/time) is the same.

If it were only 6-12 inches long it is not very interesting. If
it was 60 ft long and moved 1/4 of its length, i.e. 15 ft, in
1/125 sec, it is interesting and one can reasonably ask why no
one saw it. This corresponds to (15 ft)/(1/125 sec) = 1875
ft/sec = 1278 mph (1300 mph).

For how long a duration might it have been seen? Assume a
straight track from horizon to horizon (a UFO just "playing
through" or "passing by"). A 60 ft object might become barely
detectible at a distance 60000 ft (11 miles) (based on 1 mr
angular mnimum size needed to be detected). So, if it passed
relatively close to the observers (3000 ft or .6 mi away) then
it would have been visible over a distance of about 11+11 = 22
miles (from near the distant horizon in one direction to the
near distant horizon in the other direction).

Now. 22 mi/1300 mph = .017 hours = 1 minute!

It is not likely that any of the witnesses would happen to be
looking in the correct direction to see it appear. If they were
talking amongst themselves or looking in other directions while
the cameraman took a picture they might miss it.

ON the other hand, if one of them had seen this thing moving at
such a high speed he/she most likely would have paid attention
and he/she would have pointed it out to the others and we would
know that there were visual witnesses.

But what about the photographer. If it was there, why didn't he
see it? (Or, if he did see it briefly, why ddn't he recall it?)
He looked in the direction of the photo before the picture and
likely was still looking in that direction after the picture. If
the object had been 3000 ft away and traveling perpendicular to
the line of sight it would have been within the forward field of
view of the photographer, say within an angle of 90 degrees
centered on the direction of the photo, for a time determined by
the distance represented by 45 to the left and 45 degree to the
right and a nearest distance of 3000 ft. This distance is 3000x
tan 45 + 3000 x tan 45 = 3000 + 3000 = 6000 ft.

How long would it take for the object to travel this distance?
At a speed of 1875 ft/sec it would require about 3 seconds. That
means that if the photographer had his eyes "buried" in the
camera for more than 3 seconds (likely!) he might not have seen
the object as it sped through his forward field of view.

In other words, it is not improbable that the object could zoom
by without the cameraman seeing it, if briefly. Of course, he
could have seen in the viewfinder of the camera as he took the
picture, but he could easily ignore it as something not of
interest and probably a bird or bug. The point is, the failure
of the cameraman to notice it is not a major argument against it
being a real thing "out there."

(Note: a similar argument applies to a bug withing a few feet or
a bird 30 or so feet away... the angular rate of speed based on
distance and distance moved stays the same and so the likely
viewing time for the cameraman stays the same).

With a photo like this containing an image or what appears to be
an image of something that no one saw it is necessary to be
absolutely certain that no mundane object could cause the image
before advancing far out hypotheses. I think that in this case
one must be positive that the object was not some bird zipping
by, as suggested by Mr. Shough and others. Unfortunately the
photo does not have excellent resolution so it may never be
possible to determine exactly what the object was.

However, one might try photographing birds under comparable
conditions of daylight to see whether or not it seems possible
to obtain a similar image from bird.








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                    Re: Review Of Sight Unseen - Lehmberg

From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg.nul>
Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 07:46:50 -0600
Fwd Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 09:23:14 -0500
Subject: Re: Review Of Sight Unseen - Lehmberg


>From: John Harney <magonia.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 21:15:29 -0000
>Subject: Re: Review Of Sight Unseen - Harney

>>From: Stuart Miller <Stuart.Miller4.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 17:27:53 -0000
>>Subject: Re: Review Of Sight Unseen

>>>From: Luis R. Gonzalez <lrgm.nul>
>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 00:08:05 +0100
>>>Subject: Re: Review Of 'Sight Unseen' By Hopkins & Rainey

>>>>From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais.nul>
>>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>>Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 15:42:28 +0100
>>>>Subject: Re: Review Of 'Sight Unseen' By Hopkins & Rainey

>>With respect gentlemen, I think you are missing the point here.

>>I am not suggesting that the book should not be subjected to
>>analytical review, but by the very nature of the subject matter,
>>it will inevitably fall down on that score. I am sure there are
>>countless holes in it that can be picked till they bleed.

>>I regard the book, which I enjoyed enormously, as a very brave
>>attempt by the authors to take the subject of abduction one
>>stage further. And in doing so I think Hopkins and Rainey have
>>taken a massive and admirable gamble with their professional
>>reputations.

>Hopkins has a professional reputation as an artist; what he does
>or does not believe about UFOs is hardly relevant to it.

>>If Hopkins is convinced of the veracity of a witnesses testimony
>>(and as he revealed, he has various means of checking) and yet

>If he _really_ has various means of checking why doesn't he tell
>us what they are?

>>the story falls outside even the parameters of the extremely
>>broad boundaries that this subject already imposes, then what is
>>he to do? Given his intellect and experience, he will attempt to
>>offer some "reasonable" explanation, and that is exactly what he
>>and Carol have done. All that Carol, on the science side of

>Reasonable explanation? What reasonable explanation? You're
>joking, surely?

>>things has done is to pull together a number of both existing
>>and original ideas, as well as solid facts, put them together in
>>a reasoned and thought out manner, and then say, "This is what
>>might have happened". She's not saying, "This is definitely what
>>happened". It's placed before you gentlemen for your reasoned
>>and considered opinion. As I read it, they don't want you to
>>take what they say as fact. These are ideas, intelligently
>>posited and thoughtfully constructed and laid before the reader
>>to think about. Of course, it is your choice to reject or
>>accept.

>The ideas are utterly crazy and incoherent. It isn't a question
>of accepting or rejecting - Hopkins and Rainey's pseudo-
>scientific speculations just don't make sense.

>>Hopkins admits that it took him, as I remember, close to two
>>decades to get his thoughts in order on this. He's aware of the
>>risk he's taking, and it appears, not without some discomfort. I
>>for one applaud his and Carol's bravery. I think it is a
>>landmark book and, as I mentioned in my own review, I think
>>their ideas will gradually, over time, gain acceptance and
>>filter through into mainstream thinking. Rip it apart,
>>gentlemen, by all means, but I will not be looking at the detail
>>too closely. My preference is to stand back and take a broader
>>view.

>That's right - so long as it's a good read, why bother with the
>details or whether it makes sense or not? If you like fantastic
>yarns, why not read science fiction?

Your unsurprising assessment is smug, superior, elitist,
assumptive, uninformed, arrogant, insulting, and shallow. This
is forgetting that it is hollow, ignorant, fallacious,
convenient, unbalanced, biased, and canted. You are the needless
hurdle to our advancement sir, raising and lowering your
evidentiary bar in an arbitrary manner to serve ends
increasingly more specious and fatuous and cross purposed.
Ridicule and derision don't discourage people anymore, sir. It
just pisses us off. Your criticism is as vacuous as mine is
'supposed' to be, Mr. Harney, and decidedly less inspiring. A
report from the field.


Lehmberg.nul

EXPLORE "AlienViewGroup" at its HostPros URL.
http://www.alienview.net


JOHN FORD RESTORATION FUND -- John will be released eventually.
He'll need a tax free cash stake to get on his feet. Let's put
one together for him; the bigger it is -- the more attention
he gets. It could have been you. E-mail for detail.
$450.00 pledged -- $200.00 collected!

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite.
What others see from afar, I leave far behind me."
- Giordano Bruno, scourged by the scabrously specious scurrilous.







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                        Re: The Beveridge UFO - Shell

From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 08:13:39 -0600
Fwd Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 14:23:14 -0500
Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO - Shell


>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 18:36:22 -0800
>Subject: The Beveridge UFO

>Oh and by the way - the thingy in the picture was a bug flying
>by in close proximity to the camera!

Okay, but what kind of bug?








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                                 UFOs Abound

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 07:37:08 -0800
Fwd Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 14:25:54 -0500
Subject: UFOs Abound


Source: AV Web

http://www.avweb.com/newswire/10_06b/briefs/186660-1.html

February 5, 2004


UFOs Abound

Maybe the Martians are upset that we've introduced ATVs to their
planet or maybe it's a slow news week. Regardless, there is no
shortage of UFO sightings around the world this week. It's all
grist for the mill for the biggest UFO convention of them all,
coming up July 1 in Roswell, N.M.

Thousands of people watching the annual Snowdown Parade, in
Durango, Colo., saw and heard a low-flying aircraft of some sort
buzz the parade route twice.

In Australia, a municipal worker caught what looks like a flying
saucer on his digital camera and three Canadians told their
local newspaper about seeing a bright hovering object near
Moncton, New Brunswick, last summer.

At least the Colorado incident seems easily explained. Most
thought the craft was too small to be a piloted aircraft but
Terry Fiedler, event coordinator for the Snowdown Light Parade,
said, "I saw it go over. I'm guessing it was just somebody
coming into town and buzzed the parade because they knew it was
going on."

Regardless, organizers in Roswell will welcome alternate
opinions during the three-day event, which will have a 1940s
retro theme, taking the town back to its glory days of alien
autopsies and mysteriously dying sheep.

Up to 40,000 people are expected at the festival, in which all
the townsfolk are encouraged to re-enact the styles and
conventions of the 1940s.

Astronaut Edgar Mitchell and UFO researcher Stanton Friedman
will be the guests of honor.











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                        Re: State Of Ufology - Kaeser

From: Steven Kaeser <steve.nul>
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 10:33:54 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 14:27:37 -0500
Subject: Re: State Of Ufology - Kaeser


>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 22:25:39 +0000
>Subject: Re: State Of Ufology

>>From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 11:18:15 -0800
>>Subject: Re: State Of Ufology

>>>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 22:13:19 +0000
>>>Subject: State Of Ufology

><snip>

>>>Basically, there is no such thing in any meaningful sense as
>>>"Ufology". There are some very dedicated people

>>No, there are many dedicated people!

>>>who have tried
>>>hard, some for a very long time, to try to bring order and
>>>reason into the study of UFOs. With very little success

>>I disagree. We've been very successful in convincing the general
>>public that there is/has been a cover-up of UFO information by
>>powerful interests.

>So, we strongly disagree. That's fine. I''m merely expressing my
>opinion, and you are expressing yours.

>But "We are all being skillfully manipulated and ignored by
>powerful forces...?" How paranoid is that? I gave you rather
>succinct reasons why we are being ignored, which you don't seem
>to comprehend. Also, we haven't succeeded in convincing very
>many people who really matter (i.e., who have it in their power
>to change things) at all.

>Please define the "general public" and how you imagine they
>alone will be able to change things.


Ed,

I would have to agree with Richard here. My experience with most
people that I come in contact with outside the field don't have
any belief in alien visitation or UFOs. Most people probably do
believe there are many things that the Government is keeping
secret (for a variety of reasons) and that may involve
information pertaining to unidentified lights in the sky. That
doesn't translate into a belief that we're being visited by
alien craft or that there is any validity to alien abductions.

In a recent magazine article, a major UFO author was quoted as
saying that one of his prime "scientific" sources of information
was the MUFON Journal, which just about caused me to fall out of
my chair laughing. IMO, the Journal of UFO Studies (which is
published infrequently) is the only UFO publication that could
be considered to be scientific. There are certainly good
articles in the MUFON Journal, IUR and other UFO publications.
But none of them approach the level of a truly scientific
journal, which is a problem for ufology.


Steve








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                     Re: Review Of Sight Unseen - Miller

From: Stuart Miller <Stuart.Miller4.nul>
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 15:55:46 -0000
Fwd Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 14:30:44 -0500
Subject: Re: Review Of Sight Unseen - Miller


>From: John Harney <magonia.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 21:15:29 -0000
>Subject: Re: Review Of Sight Unseen - Harney

>>From: Stuart Miller <Stuart.Miller4.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 17:27:53 -0000
>>Subject: Re: Review Of Sight Unseen

>>>From: Luis R. Gonzalez <lrgm.nul>
>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 00:08:05 +0100
>>>Subject: Re: Review Of 'Sight Unseen' By Hopkins & Rainey

>>>>From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais.nul>
>>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>>Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 15:42:28 +0100
>>>>Subject: Re: Review Of 'Sight Unseen' By Hopkins & Rainey


List

I know there's never a policeman about when you need one, but if
there is anybody on this List with the statutory authority, then
please arrest for me for disturbing the peace. For that is what
I have done. It has been so very pleasant here these last six
weeks or so since Christmas. Marvelous messages, intelligent
discussion, and a sense of harmony and calm. That is now at an
end because I was silly enough to write something about Bud
Hopkins. Rimming popped his head up yesterday and now the
Vampire of Mortlake Cemetry stakes a claim. All we need to
complete the axis of evil is for Roberts to re-emerge saying he
has no chemical weapons, sorry, that should just be chemicals,
and the pack of jokers is complete.

How do you get off, John, giving Gerry Clark a hard time about
where he lives when you dwell under a slab with a load of
stiffs?

Oh well, preliminaries over, better get on with it.

>>With respect gentlemen, I think you are missing the point here.

>>I am not suggesting that the book should not be subjected to
>>analytical review, but by the very nature of the subject matter,
>>it will inevitably fall down on that score. I am sure there are
>>countless holes in it that can be picked till they bleed.

>>I regard the book, which I enjoyed enormously, as a very brave
>>attempt by the authors to take the subject of abduction one
>>stage further. And in doing so I think Hopkins and Rainey have
>>taken a massive and admirable gamble with their professional
>>reputations.

>Hopkins has a professional reputation as an artist; what he does
>or does not believe about UFOs is hardly relevant to it.

To follow this fatuous argument through to its childish
conclusion, on that basis then John go back to Liverpool where
you were born. You cannot live in London because you weren't
born there, just like Budd cannot speak or write about
abductions because he started life as an artist. There is a law
that says that once you start something in life, then that is
what you stick to. Thankfully for the rest of us, that law
exists only in the terribly compartmentalised brain of John
Harney.

>>If Hopkins is convinced of the veracity of a witnesses testimony
>>(and as he revealed, he has various means of checking) and yet

>If he _really_ has various means of checking why doesn't he tell
>us what they are?

I am guilty (again! Please! Somebody arrest me) of judgement.
That judgement John is that I have always associated you with
quality and intelligent thought. I am wrong. You haven't read
the book so I cannot understand how you can have the nerve to
wade in with this whinging nonsense, unless you are determined
to show the rest of us what a twerp you are.

He does tell us what his methods are for checking as to whether
someone is telling him the truth or not. He makes mention of it
twice. Go and have a look for yourself. Here's a clue; the
second reference can be found, errrrr after the first!

>>the story falls outside even the parameters of the extremely
>>broad boundaries that this subject already imposes, then what is
>>he to do? Given his intellect and experience, he will attempt to
>>offer some "reasonable" explanation, and that is exactly what he
>>and Carol have done. All that Carol, on the science side of

>Reasonable explanation? What reasonable explanation? You're
>joking, surely?

I don't tell jokes John. I have a sense of humour bypass. Having
said that, something amusing did strike me the other day. Have
you noticed how, in English upper middle class society, there is
a very close proximity in pronounciation between the words
"John" and "Yawn"?

>>things has done is to pull together a number of both existing
>>and original ideas, as well as solid facts, put them together in
>>a reasoned and thought out manner, and then say, "This is what
>>might have happened". She's not saying, "This is definitely what
>>happened".  It's placed before you gentlemen for your reasoned
>>and considered opinion. As I read it, they don't want you to
>>take what they say as fact. These are ideas, intelligently
>>posited and thoughtfully constructed and laid before the reader
>>to think about. Of course, it is your choice to reject or
>>accept.

>The ideas are utterly crazy and incoherent. It isn't a question
>of accepting or  rejecting - Hopkins and Rainey's pseudo-
>scientific speculations just don't make sense.

Oh dear. I'm not sure why I should spend any time on this reply
when you clearly haven't bothered either. Is English your native
tongue? I think you'll find that you are rejecting their
arguments.

Carol has based all her possibilities on hard fact. She has
taken solidly accredited, peer reviewed terrestrial based
scientific advancements and experiments and said, "This is what
we on earth can do already. It is therefore reasonable to
conclude that a more intelligent species can do the same thing
and possibly do it better." Darn! Isn't pseudo science a pain!

>>Hopkins admits that it took him, as I remember, close to two
>>decades to get his thoughts in order on this. He's aware of the
>>risk he's taking, and it appears, not without some discomfort. I
>>for one applaud his and Carol's bravery. I think it is a
>>landmark book and, as I mentioned in my own review, I think
>>their ideas will gradually, over time, gain acceptance and
>>filter through into mainstream thinking. Rip it apart,
>>gentlemen, by all means, but I will not be looking at the detail
>>too closely. My preference is to stand back and take a broader
>>view.

>That's right - so long as it's a good read, why bother with the
>details or whether it makes sense or not? If you like fantastic
>yarns, why not read science fiction?

I do. I read some rag called Magnausea. Are we talking about the
same publication? The one I read is a good laugh if one wants to
enter the world of clenched buttocks and the overly anxious.
Filled with grovelling acolytes all laying prone at the feet of
King Yawn.

Back under the slab with the rest of them John. When you can
actually run through an argument in an intelligent and
considered manner, give us a shout.


Stuart Miller








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                      Mystery Crash Confounds Nigerians

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 08:46:24 -0800
Fwd Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 14:33:19 -0500
Subject: Mystery Crash Confounds Nigerians


Source: AV Web

http://www.avweb.com/newswire/10_06b/briefs/186659-1.html

Mystery Crash Confounds Nigerians

February 5, 2004

By Russ Niles
Newswriter, Editor

Last Friday, witnesses claimed to have watched a plane,
possibly a Beech 1900, fall into the ocean. But since none of the
air carriers operating in the area have reported any of their
planes missing, air traffic controllers didn't have anything on
their scopes and searchers haven't found any wreckage, a search
has been called off.

The National Air Safety Initiative (NASI) had classified the
crashing object as a UFO, said NASI Executive Director Jerry
Agbeyegbe.

"Certainly an object was sighted crashing into the ocean, we
have termed it for now as a UFO," Agbeyegbe told Reuters.

"The fact that no aircraft is missing even makes it more
demanding for government to resolve the mystery, certainly it
should be viewed from the angle of national security," NASI told
the Daily Times of Nigeria.

The National Air Safety Initiative has issued a statement
condemning the government's decision to call off the search,
saying the very lack of physical evidence should make the
investigation even more compelling.

"We have advised [the] government to intensify [the] search
until we are absolutely sure that it was not a plane."

Initial reports from the crash scene indicated evidence of
wreckage but searchers now say there's nothing there.

"We are tired of looking at water. We are now convinced that
there was no plane crash," Emmanuel Ijewere, president of the
Nigerian Red Cross, told Reuters.








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              Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Hebert

From: Amy Hebert <vanguard.nul>
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 10:25:06 -0600
Fwd Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 16:51:13 -0500
Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Hebert


>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 18:17:31 -0500
>Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph

>>From: Amy Hebert <vanguard.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 13:49:16 -0600
>>Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph

>>>Bruce Maccabee is making some inquiries, let's see what he comes
>>>up with. I still would like to know size, distance and speed
>>>estimates - if they ever get made.

>You respond:

>>Actually, I think we are beating a dead horse here and Bruce
>>probably has better things to do with his time.

>I have to disagree, Amy. Calling the dialog surrounding this most
>recent UFO photo 'beating a dead horse' is premature in the
>extreme. This photo is far from being something to be put on
>a shelf to collect dust or so easily dismissed.

>What's the hurry?

Never said the photo should be dismissed, John. I said I am
putting it in my files under "unknown" until more evidence is
forthcoming. I don't have a "dismissed" file because I believe
in many, many possibilities.

There's no hurry for me, just conservation of time. As a single
mom with two daughters to put through college, I need to make
more money and am in the process of applying for teaching
positions at the local college and university. I put my career
on hold for the last 12 years mainly to be there for my children
but also to devote as much time as possible to my research.
Well, I'm tired of being poor and college is expensive. My
priorities now center around making as much money as I can so my
daughters will have a better life than I had. I will still be
doing research but on a part-time or spare-time basis from now
on.

Since I have enough research projects to last me three or four
lifetimes, I will leave cases like the Whittlesea UFO to you and
others who may have the time to follow up.

<snip>

>In other words, if we don't 'do it ourselves' the very real
>possibility is; that it will never get done at all. Get off the
>bench and get back out here. As long as there are enough of us
>willing to do the work, the chances are stronger of getiing
>(even a few) answers that we would not have had if we all sat
>back and waited for something remarkable to surface of its own
>volition. Don't lay down now. Too early for a nap.

I'm sorry, John, I've given up too much already studying UFOs
and related phenomena. You have no idea how much it saddens me
that I must put my research, my book and everything on the back
burner. I really wanted to find some answers. I'm not laying
down, John, I'm standing up for my daughters' futures.

>>You, John, are the one who approaches not only me but others
>>with this tremendous chip on your shoulder.

>That's not true at all. Read my communications with others on
>the List, Amy. I don't do not suffer fools very well, no excuses
>offered for that. I don't take insults very well either. But
>then, I've never made any claims of being 'Saint' anybody. Much
>less, Saint John.

>We _all_ have our faults and shortcomings, Amy. The trick is
>always trying to get past all that surface/personality crap for
>a peek inside at what is basically the 'good' person within all
>(or most) of us.

That's why I never gave up on you and never stopped talking. ;>

>Don't mistake my impatience with certain things and certain
>types of people as signs that I am some kind of 'ogre'. Flaws,
>warts and all, I'm really not a 'bad' sort.

>Hey, don't take my word for it. Ask a few people who have
>actually taken the time to get to know me. Locally, without
>going very far you can ask; Errol, Greg Sandow, Dick Hall, Stan
>Friedman, GT Mc Coy, Bill Weber, Alfred Lehmberg, Katarina
>Wilson and any number of others, all about me. You trust some of
>their judgement to some degree don't you? I think you'll find
>out that you have seriously, and -wrongly- misjudged me. A lot
>of this misunderstanding between us could even be 'cultural'
>Amy. You're from the wide open spaces and smiling faces of
>Texas, and I'm basically a hard-bitten, born and raised on the
>streets of Manhattan city brat. You don a hard outer shell early
>in life under 'urban guerilla' conditions. What you may perceive
>as a 'chip on my shoulder' may in fact be something else
>altogether. Ask some of the folks I suggested, I think you'll be
>surprised at the 'positive' feedback.

Ha! "Wide open spaces and smiling faces"? I grew up in Dallas.
My mother died when I was 17, my father was an alcoholic. I put
myself through college with only a little help from my sisters
(no money, just love). I did not have anm easy life. I'm a tough
old broad because my mother taught me to be strong. But I also
have a big heart. I know that everyone is good on the inside.

I have felt that you were misjudging me because you kept
classifying me with the "debunkers", etc. You have no idea how
far I am from a debunker. In fact, John, I still consider myself
an abductions researcher. Debunkers dismiss abductions outright.
I am still working on the research criteria I plan to use when I
return to abduction research. I have looked into the eyes of
these people and I have seen the suffering. I have seen more
than I ever wanted to see. There is something going on and I
intend to find out what it is. But I will do it *my* way not the
way it's been done to date.

As for the book I am writing, I'm doing it because I feel a
sense of obligation to share what I have found through my
studies. If you will notice, I rarely talk about my research. No
big secret, I just do research mainly for my own information. I
have to *force* myself to take the time to put it in writing and
share. I hate having to stop and write it down because I'd
rather move on to the next project. In fact, I am thinking of
just 'dumping' everything on my web site so I can forget it and
move on. (That's what my new web site is for - a place to put
the stuff I've been working on so I can do something else.
Anyone who finds it helpful can have it. I have other things to
do.)

All I want is the truth. I don't want to lecture at conferences,
appear on TV or do radio interviews. I've had many offers to
appear on TV and radio stuff but declined. I don't have a need
to "spread the word" or prove UFOs exist. I know they exist, I
want to know what they are or are not, who built them and what's
going on. I want to know why that thing was there behind my
house in 1997 and who put it there. I refuse to accept the
status quo. I don't want to believe, I want the #$%&*&# truth!

>>We are here for each other and that's what's important.

>>Let's just have fun and help each other learn. OK?

>That's a good place to start. Count me in.

Ok, John, you're in. ;>


Amy








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                Re: 'Snowdown flyer' Spawns Mystery - Warren

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 08:51:42 -0800
Fwd Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 16:52:21 -0500
Subject: Re: 'Snowdown flyer' Spawns Mystery - Warren


Source: The Durango Herald

http://durangoherald.com/asp-bin/article_generation.asp?article_type=news&articl
e_path=/news/04/news040204_3.htm

February 4, 2004

'Snowdown Flyer' Spawns Mystery

By Shane Benjamin
Herald Staff Writer

Thousands of people on Main Avenue saw it and heard it as it
buzzed across the night sky at a high rate of speed Friday
during Durango's Snowdown Light Parade.

But nearly a week after the winged object passed overhead, there
is much speculation about what it was and where it came from.
Did it have a pilot or was it operated by remote control? Was it
legal? Was it safe?

Most spectators of the Stone Age-themed parade are calling the
object an "airplane." But not Del Gregg, of Gregg Flying Service
at the Animas Air Park. For him, "It was a UFO. It was a Stone
Age UFO."

The plane passed directly over the parade twice, traveling the
same direction as the parade - south to north. On its second
flyby, the plane traveled the length of the parade and then
banked northeast as it approached Mercy Medical Center, said
Keith Harlan, a spectator.

"The second time that it swooped by, I got a full-on view,"
Harlan said. "My guess is it was too small to be piloted by a
man. It was too fast and too large to be a remote control. So my
guess is it was some sort of camera-operated flying device that
could have been remotely operated from anywhere."

He described the plane as being 15 feet long with a 15-foot wing
span. It traveled about 90 mph and was about 100 feet above the
tallest building, Harlan said. "It didn't sound like a small
engine," he said. "It sounded more like a turbo prop-driven
plane.

"Everyone was wondering what the plane was," he said.

The Durango-La Plata County Airport tracks commercial flights,
but doesn't have any tracking device for general-aviation
airplanes, said Don Brockus, spokesman at the airport.

"We don't have any information available about that plane," he
said.

Brockus, who was at the parade, said he was surprised at the
plane's altitude.

"It piqued my curiosity," he said. "I guess I would say I was
somewhat surprised - surprised in just the fact it was there,
that it was plainly buzzing Main street and how quick it was."

Terry Fiedler, event coordinator for the Snowdown Light Parade,
said the plane was a surprise to him as well. He did not know
where it came from or if it was piloted.

"I saw it go over," he said. "I'm guessing it was just somebody
coming into town and buzzed the parade because they knew it was
going on."

A man at Durango Air Service, who refused to be identified, said
he recognized the plane as possibly belonging to Key Lime Air,
which transports freight from Denver to Durango. But Glen Rich,
chief pilot for Key Lime Air in Denver, said his pilots weren't
responsible. "I don't know what the deal was," he said.

Airplanes within a half-mile of populated areas are required to
be at least 1,000 feet above the highest obstacle, said Mike
Fergus, spokesman for the Federal Aviation Administration for
the Northwest region in Renton, Wash.

He could not immediately say Tuesday afternoon if any complaints
had been filed with the FAA.

"Buzzing a parade is very questionable depending on the
altitude," he said.










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               Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Velez

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 11:56:47 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 17:06:00 -0500
Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Velez


>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 00:23:50 -0500
>Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph

<snip>

Hi Bruce,

Could better size, distance and speed estimates be obtained by
getting more detailed information directly from the camera man
himself? E.g. If we knew the precise distance to the first
telephone pole (from the camera) would that information aid in
determining the distance to the object in question.

Getting some kind of read on size, distance and speed is
paramount to our ability to determine if it is a 'bird' or a
'fly' that was captured in mid-flight.

*Amy: You keep saying that 'some people have identified the
object as a flying saucer' which isn't true. There is a huge
difference between someone saying that what they see 'looks'
like a flying saucer, and a statement that it _is_ a flying
saucer. Until you learn to make that simple distinction you're
going to have trouble understanding what many of us _are_
saying. I really don't believe that any of the members of this
list are ignorant enough to make such a wild and unsubstantiated
claim. I am deeply surprised that you do think so. This is a
pretty bright group of individuals (overall) that we have
assembled here. A lot of contentious bickering could be
eliminated if you stop insisting on misinterpreting what people
are saying.

Let's all get on the same page here. We'll get a lot more
accomplished and with minimal disruption in the flow of the work
being done.


Regards,

John Velez








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                        Re: State Of Ufology - Boone

From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 12:27:37 EST
Fwd Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 17:07:56 -0500
Subject: Re: State Of Ufology - Boone


Look, the reason there's no en masse effort by the public to
pressure the powers that be about UFOs is very simple:

UFOs present no immediate danger or interruption of lifestyle.

Popular yes, but calling for a divergence of resources, no.

As to date no one has provided irrefutable evidence and
casualties are minor and speculative at that.

People worldwide are extremely fascinated by the subject but
since there's no 'clear and present danger' there's no rush pell
mell into the fray.

On one hand Ufologists call for federal assistance to give
witnesses who claim to have irrefutable proof immunity from
prosecution as they're sworn to secrecy due to some military
oath.

Yet no public have equally fascinating proof. You'ld figure
with 6 billion people somebody would have something
somewhere. Especially after 50 years of public array.

There is no body on Earth that could coordinate a suppression or
coverup of this magnitude. It's unrealistic to grant that much
efficiency to our governmental bodies. It would take a global
effort of such magnitude and shrewdness the like of Grade B
movie villains (evil henchmen, high arch collars, bullwhips).

That leaves us suppositions. A few are: The entire alien
hypothesis is false or misassigned.  Everyone on Earth since
time began is suffering from some sort of mental derangement. Or
the scariest one of all:

Our species as a whole is being subjected to technologies so
advanced our pursuit in this matter is an ongoing uphill battle.

That kind of technology to control every facet of our existence
is for me unbelievable. A nut or bolt or replicator is going to
breakdown at some time or another. Maybe they do.

If one stretches the imagination we might find out we've never
been the dominant species on Earth but just hyperactive
nuisances in a planetary paddock.

Would the populations of Earth settle for finding out that
our lives are under the thumb of a foreign government of
such age and advanced technology that we're just 'posers'
in the sport of global administration?  I'll bet to primitive
tribal groups we look like we come from space or the gods.

Something is afoot here. Time to put the cards on the table or
sit back and do the stealthy science necessary to either put the
most elaborate fraud in human history to rest, or bust open the
doors to the biggest secret of our age.

The man behind the curtain?


Best,

Greg







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               Re: Tracing The Flow Of The Gulf Breeze Money -

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 12:04:36 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 17:10:17 -0500
Subject: Re: Tracing The Flow Of The Gulf Breeze Money -


>From: Jerry Black <gulfbreezeinfo.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 19:13:29 -0800 (PST)
>Subject: Tracing The Flow Of The Gulf Breeze Money

>February 4, 2004

>Part I.

>Tracing The Flow Of The Money

>To Mr. Bruce Maccabee and other interested parties,

>snip>

>Mr. Bruce Maccabee it's time for you to come clean with the UFO
>community.

>Jerry Black

Hello Bruce, All,

Ok, I suppose somebody has to ask... and better by a friend than
a foe I suppose.

Bruce... is _any_ of the above true? Where did Jerry Black get
the idea that so much money changed hands between Ed Walters,
MUFON/yourself and Bob Oechsler in regard to the Gulf Breeze
case?

Nasty (potentially deadly to your reputation) accusations, man.
Something that needs addressing immediately. What light can
you shed on this?


Regards,

John Velez








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                           Secrecy News - 02/05/04

From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood.nul>
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 15:00:31 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 17:53:24 -0500
Subject: Secrecy News - 02/05/04


SECRECY NEWS
from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy
Volume 2004, Issue No. 14
February 5, 2004


**      ARMY OFFICIALS UP IN ARMS OVER FAS WEB SITE
**      TSA TRIES TO ERASE PUBLIC TESTIMONY
**      SEN. GRAHAM ON SECRECY AND INTELLIGENCE REFORM
**      HPSCI REPORT ON PLAME RESOLUTION OF INQUIRY
**      CIA FILES OPPOSITION TO HISTORICAL BUDGET DISCLOSURE


ARMY OFFICIALS UP IN ARMS OVER FAS WEB SITE

U.S. Army security officials became exercised this week at the
possibility that a classified Army publication was posted on the
web site of the Federation of American Scientists.

One security official called for the FAS web site to "remove all
Army publications ASAP," and suggested that he would contact the
FBI if prompt action were not forthcoming.

Following review of the document identified by the Army official
as classified, FAS declined to remove it from the web because
its contents were clearly innocuous.

Furthermore, we added in an emailed response, "We do not
recognize the Army's authority to restrict our freedom to
publish."

Another Army official intervened to advise the security official
that "Unclassified Army publications and documents are in the
public domain [and] you definitely shouldn't threaten the owners
of these websites...as you have...."

The Army security official shortly retreated with the
explanation that the supposedly classified document on the FAS
web site was unclassified after all. In other words, nevermind.

The sequence of events is reflected in this exchange of email
messages, which occurred on February 4:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/2004/02/army020404.html


TSA TRIES TO ERASE PUBLIC TESTIMONY

In an extraordinary attempt to alter the public record, the
Transportation Security Agency (TSA) is seeking to remove all
public traces of certain testimony that was presented at a
congressional hearing last November, because the testimony
identified specific security problems at an airport in
Rochester, New York.

Congressional Quarterly (CQ) Homeland Security reported that the
Federal Document Clearing House (FDCH), which produces
transcripts of congressional hearings, agreed to delete the
testimony from its database.

TSA also asked CQ to delete the testimony from its website, but
CQ refused.

"Our position is that any government statement voluntarily made
public can't be classified retroactively at a later date," CQ
President Robert Merry told CQ Homeland Security.

See "TSA Asks Media to Expunge Public Testimony on Airport
Security Problems" by Jeff Stein, CQ Homeland Security, February
4:

http://tinyurl.com/2vflf


SEN. GRAHAM ON SECRECY AND INTELLIGENCE REFORM

The prospects that the latest round of intelligence reviews will
lead to significant reforms of U.S. intelligence are not
favorable, based on the track record of past Commissions and
investigations.

According to Sen. Bob Graham (D-FL), "A large number of the
problems identified by the [congressional] joint inquiry [into
September 11] and a series of commissions which preceded the
joint inquiry have not been addressed."

Among the recommendations adopted by 2002 Joint Inquiry - and
ignored - was a proposal to revise the intelligence
classification process so as to permit greater public disclosure
of certain intelligence information.

"There is a suspicion among many Americans - and I believe it is
justified - that classification is being used to shield
politically embarrassing information from public scrutiny, as
was the case with the information on the role of foreign
governments in the September 11 attack," Sen. Graham said in the
second of a series of floor statements on intelligence this
week.

"Unfortunately, little progress has been made so far in the task
of reviewing the use of classified information, particularly in
the area of intelligence. The Intelligence Authorization Act
requires the President to report on the barriers to sharing
classified information. Congress has not yet given serious
consideration to this important topic," he said.

See Sen. Graham's February 3 floor statement here (remarks on
classification policy highlighted in bold):

http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/2004_cr/graham020304.html


HPSCI REPORT ON PLAME RESOLUTION OF INQUIRY

The House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence last week
met in closed session and then voted against a proposed
"resolution of inquiry" into the leak of clandestine CIA officer
Valerie Plame's identity.

"I am disappointed that the [committee] Chairman [Porter J.
Goss] did not even permit an open hearing to allow the public
the ability to assess and judge for themselves our
deliberations," said Rep. Rush Holt (D-NJ), who had introduced
the resolution.

"The fact that much of the HPSCI's oversight work must take
place in closed session does not mitigate the importance of, or
the probing nature of, the oversight to which U.S. Intelligence
Community is subjected by the HPSCI," said Chairman Goss.

See the new Report on the HPSCI action, dated February 3, here:

http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/2004_rpt/h108-413


CIA FILES OPPOSITION TO HISTORICAL BUDGET DISCLOSURE

It is methodologically difficult for an outsider to pronounce a
final judgment on the quality and integrity of CIA intelligence
analysis regarding recent events. As Agency defenders are quick
to point out, critics lack access to the full record on which a
fair judgment should be based.

But one can deduce a lot about the intellectual rot at CIA by
observing how the Agency stubbornly opposes declassification of
fifty year old budget information.

CIA officials assert with a straight face that national security
and intelligence methods would be placed at risk by disclosure
of this antiquated information.

Is this incompetence? Is it dishonesty? That is not for us to
say. But anyone can see that it is nonsense.

This week the CIA filed its pro forma opposition to an amended
FAS lawsuit seeking declassification of intelligence budget
figures from 1947 to 1970. See:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/foia/1947/cia020204.pdf


_______________________________________________

Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the
Federation of American Scientists.

To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to
secrecy_news-request.nul
with "subscribe" in the body of the message.

OR email your request to saftergood.nul

Secrecy News is archived at:
http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html

_______________________
Steven Aftergood
Project on Government Secrecy
Federation of American Scientists
web:  www.fas.org/sgp/index.html
email: saftergood.nul
voice: (202) 454-4691








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             Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Stanford

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 15:45:46 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 17:56:01 -0500
Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Stanford


>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 00:36:07 -0500
>Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph

>>From: Martin Shough <mshough.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 15:21:45 -0000
>>Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph

<snip>

>The conclusion is the same, however. The flight of a bird must
>be ruled out before "escalation of hypotheses" (J. Allen Hynek)

I agree, provided we also consider the possibility that there
might be a fly (or flying bug) in the photographic 'ointment'.


Ray Stanford

"You know my method. It is founded upon the observance of trifles." --
Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery








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               Re: "Sight Unseen:" Distortions and Innuendos -

From: Katharina Wilson <K_Wilson.nul>
Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 15:43:10 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 18:00:02 -0500
Subject: Re: "Sight Unseen:" Distortions and Innuendos -


I am truly disappointed in the way my case and Hopkins' and
Rainey's one or two possible explanations relating to it has
been distorted and misquoted by some on this List.

I gave Budd Hopkins and Carol Rainey permission to publish my
case in their book. With all due respect to Errol, I did not
give Luis R. Gonzalez permission to re-write, summarize and ad
innuendo to it, to be published on UFO UpPates or any other
list.

The material is copyrighted and in my opinion, the way it was
used does not fall into "fair usage" under copyright law.

Because of misstatements of the facts and personal innuendos,
people who do not read the book are going to have a completely
biased view of that particular case and possibly the entire
book. That must be what Mr. Gonzalez was after in the first
place.

What you have read by some on this List are not the facts
pertaining to my case or the way it was presented in "Sight
Unseen."

If you want to understand all sides of the issues being
discussed here, go buy the book, or better yet, since Mr.
Gonzalez thinks it is such a bad book, maybe he can mail you his
copy.

>I got it last Christmas, read the dust covers, leafed through
>it, and put it back behind some other titles like Howe's
>Glimpses... (I finally decided to get them after the recent
>debate about that alleged Brazilian abduction's photos). But I
>disgress.....

Mr. Gonzalez, could you please tell the List and me what Linda
Howe's "Glimpses of Other Realities" and the alleged Brazilian
abductions have to do with my case?

The question is rhetorical - your innuendo is perfectly clear.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but keep the facts
straight and don't _rewrite_ any more portions of my case to
serve your preconceived notion of what you _think_ happened to
me.


Katharina Wilson









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                     Re: Review Of Sight Unseen - Rimmer

From: John Rimmer <jrimmer.nul>
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 20:48:34 +0000
Fwd Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 18:02:31 -0500
Subject: Re: Review Of Sight Unseen - Rimmer


>From: Stuart Miller <Stuart.Miller4.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 15:55:46 -0000
>Subject: Re: Review Of Sight Unseen

>>From: John Harney <magonia.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 21:15:29 -0000
>>Subject: Re: Review Of Sight Unseen - Harney

The Sage of Altrincham (twinned with Canby, I believe) writes:

>I know there's never a policeman about when you need one, but if
>there is anybody on this List with the statutory authority, then
>please arrest for me for disturbing the peace. For that is what
>I have done. It has been so very pleasant here these last six
>weeks or so since Christmas. Marvelous messages, intelligent
>discussion, and a sense of harmony and calm. That is now at an
>end because I was silly enough to write something about Bud
>Hopkins. Rimming popped his head up yesterday and now the
>Vampire of Mortlake Cemetry stakes a claim. All we need to
>complete the axis of evil is for Roberts to re-emerge saying he
>has no chemical weapons, sorry, that should just be chemicals,
>and the pack of jokers is complete.

>How do you get off, John, giving Gerry Clark a hard time about
>where he lives when you dwell under a slab with a load of
>stiffs?

For the record: it is John Rimmer (i.e. me) who "lives under a
slab in Mortlake Cemetery", or, as I would prefer to put it,
"lives in an quaint period cottage adjoining an attractive and
historic open space", and John Harney (who wrote the posting
that appears to have got you foaming at the mouth) who lives in
a modern apartment in vibrant downtown Bracknell. Maybe before
accusing other people of not reading things, you should get your
own ocular gear in order.

>>Hopkins has a professional reputation as an artist; what he does
>>or does not believe about UFOs is hardly relevant to it.

>To follow this fatuous argument through to its childish
>conclusion, on that basis then John go back to Liverpool where
>you were born. You cannot live in London because you weren't
>born there,

He'll correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think John Harney was
born in Liverpool.

>just like Budd cannot speak or write about
>abductions because he started life as an artist. There is a law
>that says that once you start something in life, then that is
>what you stick to. Thankfully for the rest of us, that law
>exists only in the terribly compartmentalised brain of John
>Harney.

So Hopkins has *two* professions: one is as an artist, and the
other is as a writer of sensationalised books about abductions.
Neither is likely to be harmed by his latest publication.

--
John Rimmer
Magonia Magazine
www.magonia.demon.co.uk/arc/00/newmag.htm








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                     Re: Review Of Sight Unseen - Harney

From: John Harney <magonia.nul>
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 20:54:39 -0000
Fwd Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 18:04:53 -0500
Subject: Re: Review Of Sight Unseen - Harney


>From: Stuart Miller <Stuart.Miller4.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 15:55:46 -0000
>Subject: Re: Review Of Sight Unseen

>>From: John Harney <magonia.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 21:15:29 -0000
>>Subject: Re: Review Of Sight Unseen - Harney

>List

>I know there's never a policeman about when you need one, but if
>there is anybody on this List with the statutory authority, then
>please arrest for me for disturbing the peace. For that is what
>I have done. It has been so very pleasant here these last six
>weeks or so since Christmas. Marvelous messages, intelligent
>discussion, and a sense of harmony and calm. That is now at an
>end because I was silly enough to write something about Bud
>Hopkins. Rimming popped his head up yesterday and now the
>Vampire of Mortlake Cemetry stakes a claim. All we need to
>complete the axis of evil is for Roberts to re-emerge saying he
>has no chemical weapons, sorry, that should just be chemicals,
>and the pack of jokers is complete.

I don't live near Mortlake Cemetery - aren't you confusing me
with someone else?

>How do you get off, John, giving Gerry Clark a hard time about
>where he lives when you dwell under a slab with a load of
>stiffs?

Again, you are confusing me with someone else. Wouldn't it be
best to be clear as to who you are replying to before you start?

>Oh well, preliminaries over, better get on with it.

>>Hopkins has a professional reputation as an artist; what he does
>>or does not believe about UFOs is hardly relevant to it.

>To follow this fatuous argument through to its childish
>conclusion, on that basis then John go back to Liverpool where
>you were born.

I was not born in Liverpool. Who told you that?

>You cannot live in London because you weren't
>born there, just like Budd cannot speak or write about
>abductions because he started life as an artist. There is a law
>that says that once you start something in life, then that is
>what you stick to. Thankfully for the rest of us, that law
>exists only in the terribly compartmentalised brain of John
>Harney.

Ah, at least you spelt my name right.

>>If he _really_ has various means of checking why doesn't he tell
>>us what they are?

>I am guilty (again! Please! Somebody arrest me) of judgement.
>That judgement John is that I have always associated you with
>quality and intelligent thought. I am wrong. You haven't read
>the book so I cannot understand how you can have the nerve to
>wade in with this whinging nonsense, unless you are determined
>to show the rest of us what a twerp you are.

>He does tell us what his methods are for checking as to whether
>someone is telling him the truth or not. He makes mention of it
>twice. Go and have a look for yourself. Here's a clue; the
>second reference can be found, errrrr after the first!

I have read the book, but don't have it to hand at the moment
because the person you are obviously confusing me with is
reading it. Anyway, if Hopkins really did have a technique for
telling true from false abduction reports, it would need more
than two "mentions" to describe it.

>>Reasonable explanation? What reasonable explanation? You're
>>joking, surely?

>I don't tell jokes John. I have a sense of humour bypass. Having
>said that, something amusing did strike me the other day. Have
>you noticed how, in English upper middle class society, there is
>a very close proximity in pronounciation between the words
>"John" and "Yawn"?

What is the relevance of "English upper middle class society" to
this thread?

>>The ideas are utterly crazy and incoherent. It isn't a
question
>>of accepting or  rejecting - Hopkins and Rainey's pseudo-
>>scientific speculations just don't make sense.

>Oh dear. I'm not sure why I should spend any time on this reply
>when you clearly haven't bothered either. Is English your
native
>tongue? I think you'll find that you are rejecting their
>arguments.

>Carol has based all her possibilities on hard fact. She has
>taken solidly accredited, peer reviewed terrestrial based
>scientific advancements and experiments and said, "This is what
>we on earth can do already. It is therefore reasonable to
>conclude that a more intelligent species can do the same thing
>and possibly do it better." Darn! Isn't pseudo science a pain!

All Carol Rainey's stuff about scientific advancements is the
sort of thing you can read about in "New Scientist" every week.
It is hardly reasonable to attempt to use it to explain stories
which are unsupported by physical evidence and which are more
rationally explained, or at least described, with reference to
delusions, unusual mental states and distorted memories.

>>That's right - so long as it's a good read, why bother with the
>>details or whether it makes sense or not? If you like fantastic
>>yarns, why not read science fiction?

>I do. I read some rag called Magnausea. Are we talking about the
>same publication? The one I read is a good laugh if one wants to
>enter the world of clenched buttocks and the overly anxious.
>Filled with grovelling acolytes all laying prone at the feet of
>King Yawn.

Yes, as Magonia - or whatever rude name you like to call it -
 doesn't indulge in sensationalism and pseudoscientific
nonsense, some people find it a bit boring. But, unlike certain
other UFO journals, we have never attempted to turn it into an
entertainment magazine and get a big readership by publishing
amazing claims and fuzzy photographs by assorted cranks and
frauds.


John Harney








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   Feb > Feb 5

               Re: Tracing The Flow Of The Gulf Breeze Money -

From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg.nul>
Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 08:15:24 -0600
Fwd Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 18:23:36 -0500
Subject: Re: Tracing The Flow Of The Gulf Breeze Money -


>From: Jerry Black <gulfbreezeinfo.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 19:13:29 -0800 (PST)
>Subject: Tracing The Flow Of The Gulf Breeze Money

>February 4, 2004

>Part I.

>Tracing The Flow Of The Money

>To Mr. Bruce Maccabee and other interested parties,

>Mr. Bruce Maccabee,

<snip>

That's "Doctor" Bruce Maccabee, sir, with, decidedly, a few more
ounces of lead in his *blackjack* than you've got. Try coming at
_me_ like this is want want a literary treat and some cold
verbal steel! Your introduction on this is written right out
"Todd," and I won't be standing for a lot of it, giving _at
least_ as good as I get. Color me offended, if you're right,
wrong _or_ incompetent... and provoked to as much "usenet" as
Errol will allow!

Good show, sir! That _this_ is the way to win arguments and
effectively influence the thoughts of others... is said with no
_small_ amount of sarcasm!


Lehmberg.nul

EXPLORE "AlienViewGroup" at its HostPros URL.
http://www.alienview.net


JOHN FORD RESTORATION FUND -- John will be released eventually.
He'll need a tax free cash stake to get on his feet. Let's put
one together for him; the bigger it is -- the more attention he
gets. It could have been you. E-mail for detail. $450.00 pledged
-- $200.00 collected!

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see
from afar, I leave far behind me."

- Giordano Bruno, scourged by the scabrously specious
scurrilous.







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   Feb > Feb 6

                       Re: State Of Ufology - Gehrman

From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman.nul>
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 13:14:18 -0800
Fwd Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 07:25:15 -0500
Subject: Re: State Of Ufology - Gehrman


>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 22:25:39 +0000
>Subject: Re: State Of Ufology

>>From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 11:18:15 -0800
>>Subject: Re: State Of Ufology

>>>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 22:13:19 +0000
>>>Subject: State Of Ufology

><snip>

>>>Basically, there is no such thing in any meaningful sense as
>>>"Ufology". There are some very dedicated people

>>No, there are many dedicated people!

>>>who have tried
>>>hard, some for a very long time, to try to bring order and
>>>reason into the study of UFOs. With very little success
>>>overall.

>>I disagree. We've been very successful in convincing the general
>>public that there is/has been a cover-up of UFO information by
>>powerful interests.

>So, we strongly disagree. That's fine. I''m merely expressing my
>opinion, and you are expressing yours.

>But "We are all being skillfully manipulated and ignored by
>powerful forces...?" How paranoid is that?

Richard,

Not one iota. If it is, I share the condition with Stanton
(Cosmic Watergate) and Bruce M ( Abduction in my Life). If we
are not being told the truth by our government, then we are
being manipulated. What would you call it? And the fact that
they're powerful must be obvious to all. And their skillfulness
is self validating. You don't seem to be bothered.

>I gave you rather
>succinct reasons why we are being ignored, which you don't seem
>to comprehend.

I comprehend, I just don't agree.

>Also, we haven't succeeded in convincing very
>many people who really matter (i.e., who have it in their power
>to change things) at all.

Of course not! We are being dominated by powerful forces and
they are continuously trying to keep the notion suppressed. The
final revelation will probably be the result of some inadvertent
SNAFU or unintended consequence. Let's hope they're still only
human.

Unless it's really too late! Then I expect a flu pandemic or a
Mad Cow type disease to sort out the winners and losers.

>Please define the "general public" and how you imagine they
>alone will be able to change things.

We (the general public) have little or no power to influence
what will happen or the ability to "change things" - right now.
But if we stay informed and get pissed or scared or lucky
enough, we might.

Check out the following:

http://www.ufoevidence.org/documents/doc969.htm

A new national poll found that 72 percent of Americans believe
the government is not telling the public everything it knows
about UFO activity, and 68 percent think the government knows
more about extraterrestrial life than it is letting on, the SCI
FI Channel reported. The poll-sponsored by SCI FI as part of its
promotion for Steven Spielberg's 20-hour SF miniseries Taken-
also revealed that men more than women think such information
should be shared with the public. RoperASW conducted the poll of
1,021 adults aged 18 and over from Aug. 23-25. The margin of
error is 3 percent.

Among the poll's other findings:

 - The younger you are, the stronger your belief that the
government is withholding information about UFOs and
extraterrestrial life: 80 percent of respondents 18-24 years old
said so, compared with 75 percent of those 25-34 years old and
73 percent of those 35-49 years old.

 - Just over half (53 percent) of respondents said that their
level of trust in the government has remained stable over the
past five years, while nearly a third (29 percent) said that
they trust the government less than they did five years ago.

 - Most respondents said that the government does not share
enough information with the public in general (55 percent) and
that the U.S. government should not withhold information about
UFO sightings (60 percent) and potential encounters with
extraterrestrial life (58 percent) when national security is not
an issue.








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   Feb > Feb 6

                      Re: The Beveridge UFO - Stanford

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 16:18:25 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 07:26:38 -0500
Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO - Stanford


>From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 08:13:39 -0600
>Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO

>>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 18:36:22 -0800
>>Subject: The Beveridge UFO

>>Oh and by the way - the thingy in the picture was a bug flying
>>by in close proximity to the camera!

>Okay, but what kind of bug?

Simple, my dear Watson! It was a camera bug.

:) Sorry, I couldn't resist.

Ray Stanford

"You know my method. It is founded upon the observance of
trifles." -- Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery








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   Feb > Feb 6

                      Re: The Beveridge UFO - Harrison

From: Diane Harrison <auforn.nul>
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 07:09:09 +1000
Fwd Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 07:28:08 -0500
Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO - Harrison


>From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 08:13:39 -0600
>Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO

>>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 18:36:22 -0800
>>Subject: The Beveridge UFO

>>Oh and by the way - the thingy in the picture was a bug flying
>>by in close proximity to the camera!

>Okay, but what kind of bug?

Hi Tim

Tim I can't prove the smug on the photo is a beetle I wish I
could but if it is the most common kind of beetle to be in
flight at this time of the year is the Christmas Beetle.

http://www.geocities.com/brisbane_beetles/ChristmasBeetle.htm

The Christmas Beetle is common in all parts of Australia their
colors vary from brown to gold to silver - they are most common
around Christmas time hence the name and can be seen throughout
January.

They have white to translucent type wings hidden under their
shell like body and if captured in flight on a digital camera
could appear to be dome shaped.

To Frank & Amy thank you for your kind comments.

Food for thought.


--

Regards Diane Harrison

National Director of The Australian UFO Research Network
Australian Skywatch Director

~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>
THE AUSTRALIAN UFO RESEARCH NETWORK
(A Non-Profit Organization)

E-Mail: auforn.nul
E-mail: ufologist.nul
http://www.hypermax.net.au/~auforn

ADMINISTRATION:

PO Box 738
Beaudessert 4285
QLD Australia
Tel 07 55 44 6888
~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>
Australian UFO Research Network Hotline Number
         1800 77 22 88 Freecall
~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>

All NEW UFO Bookshop at
http://www.contactpublishing.com








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               Re: Tracing The Flow Of The Gulf Breeze Money -

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 16:29:50 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 07:31:45 -0500
Subject: Re: Tracing The Flow Of The Gulf Breeze Money -


>From: Jerry Black <gulfbreezeinfo.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 19:13:29 -0800 (PST)
>Subject: Tracing The Flow Of The Gulf Breeze Money


>February 4, 2004

>Part I.

>.Tracing The Flow Of The Money

>To Mr. Bruce Maccabee and other interested parties,

>Mr. Bruce Maccabee, I've taken the time to read over your
>response to my one hour, taped interview, concerning the Gulf
>Breeze sightings.

>Your replies are filled with illogical conclusions to very
>simple events, in some cases outright lies.

>For years, investigators inside the MUFON organization and
>outside the MUFON organization have wondered why there was never
>a disparaging word in print against the Ed Walters Gulf Breeze
>sightings. In many of the journals, in your reports and other
>investigator's reports in the MUFON organization, I cannot find
>one disparaging word against Ed Walters's sightings or his
>claims of abduction.

>Early on in the investigation of the Gulf Breeze sightings, Mr.
>Ed Walters offered to pay the MUFON organization thousands of
>dollars to help defray the cost of the investigation of the Gulf
>Breeze sightings. In another words, Ed Walters offered MUFON
>money to help them investigate his own case.

>Mr. Walt Andrus, at that time, director of the Mutual UFO
>Network, accepted that money.

>By accepting that money, he
>certainly created a conflict of interest. He also did not
>acknowledge, to the general public, that he had received
>thousands of dollars from Mr. Ed Walters to investigate the
>case.

I am not aware that Andrus accepted any money from Walters. I do
not recall anything of the sort. However, you should take this
up with Andrus himself.

>Several investigators in the MUFON organization including
>your self, Mr. Bruce Maccabee, knew this information. I have
>never heard, in the history of ufology, of a subject under
i>nvestigation by a UFO organization, paying for his own
>investigation.

I didn't know about it. Perhaps you can name those who did...
assuming it happened!

>The agreement that Walter Andrus had with Mr. Ed Walters was the
>money would then be given to either the Fund for UFO Research or
>to the MUFON Organization.

>At that point, the monies were then given to you, Mr. Bruce
>Maccabee either from the Fund for UFO Research or directly from
>the MUFON organization. This was done because you were one of
>the lead investigators in the Ed Walter's Gulf Breeze sightings.

>Mr. Bruce Maccabee, you have said, for the past twelve years you
>never received any monies from Ed Walters, other than the
>eighteen thousand dollars for your part in writing a chapter in
>his book. However, you did receive, as I stated early, thousands
>of dollars, some saying as much as twenty thousand dollars from
>the Fund for UFO Research or the MUFON organization, which was
>donated to them by Mr. Ed Walters.

>So no matter how you look at it Mr. Maccabee, the money came
>from Mr. Ed. Walters pocket.

>You neglected to tell people about the thousands of dollars you
>received from one of those two organizations. This explains why
>every time Ed Walters stumbled during his reporting of his
>pictures and his abductions, you were always there to pick him
>up. You Mr. Maccabee, were Mr. Ed Walters paid investigator. You
>were not working for the Fund for UFO Research or the MUFON
>organization, you sir, were working for Mr. Ed Walters.

And You, Mr Black, have apparently become delusional.

The Fund for UFO Research DID authorize me to expend Fund money
to fly to Florida to investigate the case after a suggestion by
Budd Hopkins that I should evaluate the photos. At the time
(early February, 1988) I did not know who the photographer was
and I was aware of only the first 5 photographs by Ed The cost
of my plane ticket to Florida was about $300. I stayed overnight
at the home of CHarles Flannigan, so there were no hotel
expenses. Transportation was supplied I and mostly bought my own
food. Hence the total amount of money paid to me by the Fund was
about $300.

Ed Walters never gave money to the Fund and, so far as I know,
never gave money to MUFON, but as I said before, you'd have to
take up the MUFON situation with Andrus (or Scheussler). I
presume you can produce some evidence to back up your charges...
evidence besides your own claims.

>It clearly shows in the way you handled the entire
>investigation. Both, Mr. Walt Andrus and yourself are to blame
>here for accepting monies from the subject during an ongoing
>investigation. You gentlemen are embarrassments to the UFO
>community.

I took no money from Ed Walters or MUFON or the Fund (except
about 300 to cover air fare).

>This also explains why Mr. Ed Walters was privy to all
>information, almost immediately, that was given to you in
>confidential basis.

>When you pay thousands of dollars to an organization, you expect
>to be part and included in all aspects of the investigation.

>This certainly was true when Rex Salisberry turned in his report >
>requested by the MUFON organization. Immediately upon his report
>being turned over to the MUFON organization, Ed Walters was made
>aware of everything in the report.

>Also, my own personal experience was with Mr. William G. Hyzer
>concerning his report that was issued to Rex Salisberry and to
>Walt Andrus. The understating was, this report was to be read
>only by people in the MUFON organization and of course, Mr. Rex
>Salisberry.

>Within 48 hours after his report was issued to the MUFON
>organization, Mr. William G. Hyzer received in the mail a
>letter, airmail express, stating to him that these pictures were
>copyrighted and he was not to use them in any of his journals.

>So how did Mr. Ed Walters obtain information on Rex's report and
>William G. Hyzer's report almost instantaneously, when they were
>received by the MUFON organization? The answer is he was privy
t>o everything because he was paying for the investigation.

Paying for the investigation? What evidence do you have of that?
(Note to the amused reader: The Gulf Breeze investigation
discussed here by Black took place in the spring of 1988.
Numerous skeptics have levelled all sorts of claims against the
Gulf Breeze sightings, but, so far as I know, this is the first
time in 16 years that someone has expicitly claimed that the
investigation was "paid for" by Ed Walters. If he had actually
paid a large sum of money to the Fund or to MUFON I am sure that
SOMEONE would have mentioned it years ago!


>In talking about the tracing of the flow of the money, we
>certainly don't want to forget the five thousand dollars that
>Mr. Bob Oechsler received from Mr. Ed Walters for doing some
>work with the original pictures.

Yes, this did happen. Oechsler spent several weeks with a
professional photographer in a darkroom making prints and slides
after learning from Polaroid how to clean the original pictures.
He made many copies of each photo, varying the exposure times in
order to get the best possible print and slide copies. An
important rason for obtaining the best possible prints from each
photo was to allow for careful examination of each to look for
evidence of hoaxing. If Ed had hoaxed the photos he probably
wouldn't have allowed anyone to copy and study the photos as
carefully as Oechsler and I did.

>Mr. Bob Oechsler was Mr. Maccabee's 'yes' man. He also got into
>Mr. Ed Walter's pockets.

I don't know what you mean here. Bob essentially carried out his
own investigation.


>I thought this was pretty much common knowledge throughout the
>UFO community, but surprised to find out that many investigators
>were not aware that Bob Oechsler had received five-thousand
>dollars from Ed Walters.

That fact has been published numerous times in the last 16 years.

>There is a very clear pattern here of Ed Walters trying to buy
>support for his Gulf Breeze sightings case. In the case of
>Bruce Maccabee, Walt Andrus and Bob Oechsler, he received that
>support.

>Mr. Bruce Maccabee it's time for you to come clean with the UFO
>community.

Jerry, you have been at this since the early 1990's. You level
the same sorts of charges over and over again. You have in the
past misinterpreted a card written to you by Ed Walters in which
he explained the $5,000. Apparently you still don't understand
it.

Had Ed offered large sums of money... or any money at all... to
either the Fund or MUFON soon after the investigation started
(spring, 1988), this would have been considered grounds for
immediately assuming a hoax and thus ending the investigation.
In other words, had Ed offered beaucoup $$$ for an investigation
there woudn't have been an investigation... at least not by me.

I have never accepted remuneration from a witness for an
investigation. As I have pointed out numerous times in the past
15 years, my investigation was largely complete by the time of
the MUFON symposium in July, 1988. I was not offered a contract
to write a chapter for Ed's book until late November, 1988, long
after I had made my investigation results public.

A particularly important aspect of the history of this
investigation from the point of view of photo analysis is that
by June of 1988 I had analyzed the stereo photos which Ed took
and concluded it would have been too difficult for him to fake
the images in Nimslo (4 lens stereo camera) photos and the
similar image in the May 1 "SRS" camera photos. This
photographic fact combined with all the other witness stories
indicated to me that Ed had not hoaxed his photos. At the MUFON
Symposium in July that year I discussed all the potential hoax
hypotheses and presented arguments against each. This
information was made available to the general public through a
document ("A History of the Gulf Breeze Sightings") that was
(15 years ago!) sold by the Fund. If the Fund made any money
from the Walters case it was from the sale of that document.

So now, Mr. Jerry Black, it's time to let the Gulf Breeze case
fade into history while we spend our time on much more recent
events.








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                      Re: Review Of Sight Unseen - Pope

From: Nick Pope <nick.nul>
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 00:56:58 -0000
Fwd Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 07:32:51 -0500
Subject: Re: Review Of Sight Unseen - Pope


>From: John Harney <magonia.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 21:15:29 -0000
>Subject: Re: Review Of Sight Unseen - Harney

>>From: Stuart Miller <Stuart.Miller4.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 17:27:53 -0000
>>Subject: Re: Review Of Sight Unseen

<snip>

>>If Hopkins is convinced of the veracity of a witnesses testimony
>>(and as he revealed, he has various means of checking) and yet

>If he _really_ has various means of checking why doesn't he tell
>us what they are?

<snip>

John, Stuart and List,

I'm not sure that Budd Hopkins has claimed to have a sure-fire
way of checking the veracity of witnesses. What I have heard him
say previously is that he has some techniques to smoke out
witnesses who are confabulating, or making up stories that they
think he wants to hear.

One such technique involved him attempting to lead witnesses by
suggesting that if their experience was real, a specific course
of action would almost certainly have followed. He then said
what this was and asked whether it had indeed occurred. Budd
believed that someone who was confabulating or lying would go
along with the suggestion, in an effort to match their narrative
with what Budd had led them to believe was a standard pattern in
genuine abduction experiences.

A similar technique was used during the Roper Poll, when in
addition to five questions revolving around scenarios often
reported by abductees, people were asked whether the word
"Trondant" had any secret meaning to them. The word had been
made up and the question was designed simply to weed out those
people who automatically said yes to the scenarios, for whatever
reasons.

It may be that Budd has other such techniques up his sleeve. If
he does, it's obvious that revealing them would invalidate them
as a tool for spotting liars, fantasists and confabulators.

I acknowledge that this is frustrating for other researchers. A
similar debate rages over symbols reported by some abductees.
Budd has a large database of such symbols and is often urged to
publish the data. But he deliberately withholds this information
so that he can use it as a way of cross-checking witness
testimony. It would clearly be very interesting if different
abductees reported having seen the same symbols, provided Budd
could be sure that there had been no collusion. The moment the
data are in the public domain, this technique would be invalid.


Best wishes,

Nick Pope








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             Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Harrison

From: Diane Harrison <auforn.nul>
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 11:17:25 +1000
Fwd Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 07:41:25 -0500
Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Harrison


>From: Amy Hebert <vanguard.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 10:25:06 -0600
>Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph

>>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 18:17:31 -0500
>>Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph

>>>From: Amy Hebert <vanguard.nul>
>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 13:49:16 -0600
>>>Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph


>>>Actually, I think we are beating a dead horse here and Bruce
>>>probably has better things to do with his time.

>>I have to disagree, Amy. Calling the dialog surrounding this most
>>recent UFO photo 'beating a dead horse' is premature in the
>>extreme. This photo is far from being something to be put on
>>a shelf to collect dust or so easily dismissed.

Hi John,

I think Amy may have shelved other peoples opinions for the
moment.


>>What's the hurry?

>Never said the photo should be dismissed, John. I said I am
>putting it in my files under "unknown" until more evidence is
>forthcoming. I don't have a "dismissed" file because I believe
>in many, many possibilities.

Hi Amy

I, like you, never said "dismiss the photo", but I have noticed
when I question how one has come to a conclusion I too got asked
if I was biased toward abductees because maybe I'm the type who
thinks an abductee can't make an objective comment or an
observation because they're an abductee?

That comment "biased towards abductee's kinda cut deep with me
and I did not take it lightly but John you made your point".

John, I have the guts to ask questions about another persons
opinion and research be they an abductees the best UFO
book writer or the best in their own mind UFO researchers
in the world and I will continue to do so.

Opinion: a belief, attitude or view point. Each and everyone on
this List has a right to an opinion and the right to express
ones own opinion.

"What have some forgotten? in my opinion! the common thread that
ties us all together "we are all researching the unknown" some
may think they have all the answers and if they do I'm happy to
listen to what they have to say... but be warned there are many
on this list and on others lists that will ask you to "please
explain" and if you take offence to being asked to explain, well
what can I say "that's research" :>)

>There's no hurry for me, just conservation of time. As a single
>mom with two daughters to put through college, I need to make
>more money and am in the process of applying for teaching
>positions at the local college and university. I put my career
>on hold for the last 12 years mainly to be there for my children
>but also to devote as much time as possible to my research.
>Well, I'm tired of being poor and college is expensive. My
>priorities now center around making as much money as I can so my
>daughters will have a better life than I had. I will still be
>doing research but on a part-time or spare-time basis from now
>on.

Amy you have done a wonderful job, so don't let the buggers get
you down. Unfortunately there is the tall poppy syndrome at work
and some researchers tend to think they are better than others.

Amy I'm not going to give this thread anymore unless I can see
more evidence appear and for now I personally feel as Frank what
more can be said or done.

Thank you Amy and all and may I make state this final point
"please don't forget where some of you came from and who put you
there".

A best selling UFO book doesn't move off the shelf on its own
someone on this list took the time to buy one. :>)

"Searching for the Truth"
--
Co Editor Diane Harrison
The Australasian UFOlogist Magazine


P.O Box 738
Beaudesert 4285

Phone Fax 07 55 44 6 888








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              Re: Michael J. Woods On NASA's Motives - Fleming

From: Lan Fleming <lfleming5.nul>
Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 20:15:43 -0600
Fwd Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 07:43:00 -0500
Subject: Re: Michael J. Woods On NASA's Motives - Fleming


>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>To: UFO Updates <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 17:17:42 -0500
>Subject: Re: Michael J. Woods On NASA's Motives - Stanford

<snip>

>I think the link below gives us a fairly good idea of why NASA
>received the data from Northwest Airlines. If it make us all as
>airline passengers potentially safer from scumbags (to borrow a
>term from John Walsh of America's Most Wanted) and potentially
>dangerous psychotics, I may not worry too much, while admitting
>that it really seems more than just a wee bit out of NASA's
>purview! Let each decide for himself or herself, however:

>http://www.wired.com/news/privacy/0%2C1848%2C61987%2C00.html


The balance between security and liberty is certainly a very
complex issue, but there are two things I find very troubling
about the actions of NASA and the airlines:

First, the information was sent by the airlines to NASA covertly
without the knowledge of the passengers. While I don't
particularly enjoy going through metal detectors at airports, I
understand why it's necessary. But I _know_ that I'm going
through a metal detector; it's not done furtively like the NASA
data mining was done before it was exposed by FOIA requests.

Second, nobody seems to have suspected that NASA was involved in
this sort of activity. (From his initial reaction, it seemed to
be as big a surprise to Ray as it was to me). When you go
through the metal detectors at the airport, you know that it's
the proper authorities that are in charge, not some agency you'd
never dream was involved in that sort of surveillance. This is
not what taxpayers assume NASA is spending their money on.

The point more relevant to this list is that NASA is highly
compliant if not totally subservient to the Defense Department
and other government agencies involved with national security
(and sometimes more dubious activities cloaked in the guise of
national security). A recent article on Space.Com about the U2
scandal of the 1950s described how NASA went along with a CIA
scheme to paint the NASA logo on a U2 spy plane to demonstrate
to the news media that the U2 shot down by the Soviets was doing
innocent meteorological work and had merely lost its bearings
and strayed over Russian territories.

This is why I think the idea is overly simplistic that NASA
would eagerly and promptly announce the discovery of evidence of
intelligent life on another planet because of the big budget
increase they would get. I very much suspect that any such
announcement would be cleared with the national security
agencies (such as the NSA) before it was made. If NASA was told
to cover something up in the name of national security, I've
little doubt that they would comply.

Given Ray's own unhappy experience with the Socorro sample he
submitted to NASA for analysis, I would think he might at least
have some mixed feelings in that regard.

BTW: You have my sympathy, Ray, for the personal losses you
wrote about. It sounds like you're going through a tough time
now.


Lan








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                     Re: New European UFO Survey - Burns

From: Max Burns <max.burns.nul>
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 03:49:24 -0000
Fwd Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 07:47:34 -0500
Subject: Re: New European UFO Survey - Burns


>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 20:43:02 +0000
>Subject: Re: New European UFO Survey

>>From: Max Burns <max.burns.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 00:31:43 -0000
>>Subject: Re: New European UFO Survey

><snip>

>>The mission statement and portfolio of this group looks
>>impressive. I certainly hope that this group can recieve support
>>from ufology as they make themselves known. Also, what they hope
>>to achieve with this collaboration across a broad spectram of
>>academia.

>>I am sure the group will keep us all informed as they move into
>>the full launch over the coming months.

>>I welcome the European UFO survey to our global ufological
>>family:

>>http://www.europeanufosurvey.com/

>As far as I can see all we still have is that oxymoronic
>"anonymous science." They will receive no credibility whatsoever
>without giving their names. Anyone can claim to have those
>backgrounds. At the very least, they need to have a few willing
>to speak out, giving their full identities.


Richard, EBK and listers,

Perhaps, there may be future releases of information in the
coming months information that is not currently available on the
web site It would be premature to judge the group before anyone
has had an opertunity to listen and hear what they have to say.

Especially as they are only in the early stages of the launch

Surely time will tell.


Max









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               Re: "Sight Unseen:" Distortions And Innuendos -

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 23:31:07 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 11:12:25 -0500
Subject: Re: "Sight Unseen:" Distortions And Innuendos -


>From: Katharina Wilson <K_Wilson.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 15:43:10 -0500
>Subject: "Sight Unseen:" Distortions and Innuendos

>I am truly disappointed in the way my case and Hopkins' and
>Rainey's one or two possible explanations relating to it has
>been distorted and misquoted by some on this List.

>I gave Budd Hopkins and Carol Rainey permission to publish my
>case in their book. With all due respect to Errol, I did not
>give Luis R. Gonzalez permission to re-write, summarize and ad
>innuendo to it, to be published on UFO UpPates or any other
>List.


Hello Katharina,

With all due respect to you, Luis R. Gonzalez did not need
permission to comment in the way that he did, on your
fascinating case as discussed in Hopkin's and Rainey's book.
Copyright law provides no such protection and its intention is
not to protect an author or an author's subject from
controversy. Anyone can discuss a controversial subject without
breaking copyright law. It is well to expect and accept some
controversy. If not, I suggest you brace yourself, for the time
could come, with all the heartless CSICOP 'pelicans' out there,
that you may come to think of Gonzalez's discussion as
comparatively kind and restrained. I am glad his discussion did
not seem to contain anything even close to attempted slander or
any content that would be considered libelous, unless there's
something I missed in reading it.

I'm sorry to see you distressed about the discussion, but it
might be helpful to realize that once one allows oneself to step
out into controversy, it is best to simply be philosophical and
realize that certain things are likely to 'come with the turf'.
It might be prudent to try and let such controversy strengthen
you as might an annealing fire upon metal, lest, otherwise, your
reaction to it 'burn' and weaken you from within.

I personally know nothing of your experience, but plan to give
it a fair 'hearing' by reading the book and hope others will do
so before commenting. The universe seems much stranger than some
in this forum may be willing to accept. I've weathered some
controversy, myself, over the years, and, based on my
experience, I encourage you to allow what comes your way to
strengthen you. It may seem a painful strengthening, but hold in
there, and you will be stronger and feel better in the long run.
Of course, calmly and resolutely 'stand your ground', if it is
realistic to do so, remembering that when flames get turned up,
it is usually the cool gal or guy who comes out on top. I
haven't, personally, always succeeded in doing that, but think
it a worthwhile, when possible.


Every Good Wish,

Ray Stanford

"You know my method. It is founded upon the observance of
trifles." -- Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery









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                        Re: State Of Ufology - Clark

From: Jerome Clark <jkclark.nul>
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 23:10:39 -0600
Fwd Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 11:27:21 -0500
Subject: Re: State Of Ufology - Clark


>From: Steven Kaeser <steve.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 10:33:54 -0500
>Subject: Re: State Of Ufology

>>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 22:25:39 +0000
>>Subject: Re: State Of Ufology

>>>From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman.nul>
>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 11:18:15 -0800
>>>Subject: Re: State Of Ufology

>>>>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
>>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>>Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 22:13:19 +0000
>>>>Subject: State Of Ufology
>><snip>


>In a recent magazine article, a major UFO author was quoted as
>saying that one of his prime "scientific" sources of information
>was the MUFON Journal, which just about caused me to fall out of
>my chair laughing. IMO, the Journal of UFO Studies (which is
>published infrequently) is the only UFO publication that could
>be considered to be scientific. There are certainly good
>articles in the MUFON Journal, IUR and other UFO publications.
>But none of them approach the level of a truly scientific
>journal, which is a problem for ufology.

And I take profound offense here. For a number of years I was
senior editor, and am now an associate editor, of IUR, and to
see it referred to in the same breath as the MUFON Journal "and
other UFO publications," and then to find it defined as "a
problem for ufology," causes this jaw to drop and steam to pour
out of these ears.

By Kaeser's standards, if they were applied to more mainstream
concerns than ufology, only academic journals would matter, and
all other magazines, whatever their audience and seriousness,
would be "a problem for cultural intelligence." Happily, in the
real world The New Republic, The Nation, The Weekly Standard,
The New York Review of Books, The Chronicle of Higher Education,
and any number of intellectually oriented magazines which are
not academic, refereed journals are not generally considered
"problems" for society.

I am not knocking other UFO magazines, which have their virtues
and faults in varying proportions, but IUR was never intended to
be an academic journal, but an intelligent, thoughtful,
critically minded magazine for an audience of people who were
looking precisely for that. When I seriously revamped the
magazine on assuming editorship in 1985, I told my CUFOS fellows
that I conceived the magazine to be, to the extent that we were
able to make it so (in other words, imperfectly), the ufological
equivalent of The Atlantic Monthly. We've all worked hard to
make IUR smart. We haven't always been right, but then who is?
For the most part I believe we have succeeded in creating and
sustaining a very smart magazine which has sought
conscientiously to bring sober standards to UFO writing and to
solicit high-quality writing.

To be blunt, I am appalled and infuriated to be told by somebody
I don't know, and whose contributions to this field are
unfamiliar to me, that IUR is "a problem for ufology." If you
want to disagree with IUR's point of view, write an intelligent,
literate article expressing those criticisms, and we will
publish it. But I defy you to document that IUR, arguably the
most respected UFO magazine published in America, is "a problem
for ufology." On our masthead, as contributing editors, we have
Jenny Randles, Bill Chalker, Chris Rutkowski, Kevin Randle, and
Dick Haines. The other two senior editors are George Eberhart
and Mark Rodeghier. Our regular contributors include some of the
finest researchers, investigators, and thinkers in this field
(Eddie Bullard, Mike Swords, Dick Hall, Greg Sandow, and many
more), including any number of Ph.D.s from a variety of
disciplines.

But then I guess they're all problems for ufology and just
don't measure up to Steve Kaeser's high standards.


Jerry Clark








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                       Reports To HBCC UFO - 02-05-04

From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO <hbccufo.nul>
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 22:09:29 -0800
Fwd Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 11:35:50 -0500
Subject: Reports To HBCC UFO - 02-05-04



Howdy

A couple of things I have received. Also I have been receiving
abduction reports every week, some are very good cases. I will
keep all updated as I roll along.

I have the new site up and running, it is a great looking
website, and this is thanks to two wonderful people, one who
donated the domain name and website, and another who built the
site up from scrach. I can't thank them all enough.

Brian
HBCC UFO


Houston, British Columbia

Date:  February 3, 2004
Time:  7:06 a.m.

This sighting took place approx: 5 kilometers west of Houston,
British Columbia. The area where the sighting took place has
been a very active location for numerous sightings over 2002 and
2003. The farm I visited today (February 4, 2003) sits high
above the Bulkley Valley and these folks and their neighbors
have a terrific view of all the surroundings.

A witness called me on the morning of February 4, 2004 to report
that she and her husband both saw something that didn't look
right. The woman gets up early to get her husband and children
ready for the day's work and school. As she made her way through
her home at 7:06 a.m. she walked by the kitchen sink, stopped,
backed up and gave a call out for her husband to come and have a
look at what she was watching.

Both stood inside their home looking out the window at a moon
sized object. It's color was very bright, (a good example would
be if you were sitting looking into a camp fire watching the
bright colored flames shooting up). This object was "bright"!
The witness only could guess as to the shape of it, but thought
it was circular. She reported to me the top of the object was
domed shaped for sure. (also what is very important in this
story is that it was completely dark outside, the sun had not
started to rise).

The farm the family owns is very large, and there is a great
deal of pasture. From the kitchen where they observed the
object, there is a clump of poplar and spruce trees. Then behind
that is another opening of pasture area, then another row or
clump of trees. In-between these rows of trees,  is where the
object was seen moving about. Not in an erratic fashion at all,
it just dropped down slowly and "stopped"!

Since the orange glowing object was staying stationary at the
time, the lady grabbed her video camera and started to shoot
some film from the kitchen window. Because what she and her
husband were watching was certainly strange looking, she thought
about making a move to the outside onto the patio. She ran
quickly to the front door, opened it and went outside with video
camera in hand. When she looked over to the area where the
object was sitting, or had been ....it had vanished. The woman
ran back inside to the kitchen window again, and there it was,
sitting stationary and shining very brightly. So she shot a
little more footage until it just blinked out.

After I took the call about the sighting, I asked was she going
to be at home for a while, and if so, I would like to come out
to have a look around. I also wanted to take a look at the
footage and do the report of the sighting. The witness said it
would be fine if I wanted to come up to their home right away,
so I grabbed my keys and headed out.

I was greeted by the witnesses when I arrived and she explained
exactly what they saw, showed me where the object was located
and where she was standing when filming. The lady then showed me
into the kitchen and told me that this is where she first
noticed it. She then took me outside and pointed to where the
object was when she tried to capture it on film.

I said you are kidding, because it would not have mattered from
either location the lady was filming from, the object should
have been visible. With winter here the popular trees had
already dropped their leaves months ago. There were not many
spruce trees in the area to block out such a large object. Why
the witness could not see it when she went outdoors is a mystery
to me, there was nothing to block out this large orange glowing
object. I could see clearly through the first set of trees to
the second row. So why the light disappeared has me baffled.

We went back into the house so she could let me view the footage
she shot. What I viewed was a totally blackened area, there was
no light from an approaching sunrise. The object as the witness
described to me was sitting exactly where she told me it was. It
was a brilliant orange light and extremely large in size.
Something else I found interesting was one of the larger popular
trees which was in front of the light, (closest to their home
and at the edge of the open field) there is what looks like a
string of lights which is running down the tree. When I first
looked at this part in the footage it reminded me as if one was
looking at a set of Christmas lights running from the top
branches downward to about half the length of the tree. The
lights also spread out over a few of the larger branches as
well. These streamers of light were also very bright.

I eventually left the witnesses home and drove up the road to
look around away from the site where the object had been seen.
But from the vantage point I was at now, I was able to look over
all the fields and the valley below. I did not see anything out
of the norm. I also drove back down the road and stopped at the
side of the road and looked around the area where the large
object was spotted, again I saw no signs of any kind of
disturbance in the snow or around and on any of the trees.

So what the husband and wife witnessed is an unknown for now.

I was also given a copy of the tape to have it looked at.

-------------------------
Prince George, British Columbia

Date:  January, 30, 2004
Time:  9:45 p.m.

I received a call on the toll free line from a woman who resides
in Prince George, British Columbia. She wanted to report seeing
a circular ball of red light approx: one block from her home. It
was bright and the witness watched the object rise up from
behind the trees in the neighborhood. It stopped briefly then
moved slowly towards the west for a short distance before it
came to a complete stop. The red light dropped down towards the
trees, but stopped just short of the tops. Again it rose up
rather quickly, then stopped and sat stationary for a few
seconds. It finally continued it's travels maneuvering in a
strange fashion towards the west. The witness said as it flew a
long it would make a tight maneuver on a curve, in other words
it looks as if it was going around a bend. The object continued
in this motion until it was out of her line of sight. Also the
lady I talked with had called her Mother out of the house when
she first saw it, both daughter and Mother observed the object.
No sound was reported associated to it.

Thank you to the witnesses for their report.

----------

Prince George, B. C.

Date:  January 5, 2004
Time:  approx: 4:00 p.m.

A lady called me from Prince George, British Columbia to file a
report on something unusual she had witnessed on January 5, 2004
at approx: 4:00 p.m. She was standing by the Future Shop with
her back to the building. The lady said it was almost completely
dark out when she spotted it just above the horizon over one of
the local hills. A short contrail, coral red in color. She
mentioned if it had of been light out she may have been able to
see the body of the craft, or something that may have been
making the colored contrail. But because of the time of day, and
being almost pitch black out she could not see what was causing
the contrail. The witness said it was very bright, defined
trail. The lady said she didn't believe it was very high up in
the sky and the object did not have any flashing strobe lights
on it. It traveled on a steady, straight path not making any
unusual moments as it flew along. The witness said she observed
it for approx: a couple of minutes and then she walked back into
the store. The object was still visible at the time she stopped
watching it. So we have no idea just how long the lady would
have been able to observe it for.

Thank you to the witness for the report.

-----------------

Nelway, B.C. Sasqutach Sighting

Date:  Tuesday 20, 2004
Time: 7:30 p.m.

Four witnesses traveling highway #6 south of Salmo near Nelway,
B.C., claim to have seen a large hair covered creature crossing
the highway approx: 200 feet in front of the car. They said the
beast must have been well over 7 feet in height and was
completely covered with hair. Due to it being dark out, the
witnesses all describe the creature as being darkish in color
even when the headlights from their vehicle shone on it. The
driver stopped the car a short distance from it, ( approx: 100
feet) he rolled down his drivers side window and watched as the
manlike figure reached the shoulder of the highway and then it
stopped. The witnesses reported that the it turned towards them,
glanced briefly at the folks in the car, then turned and started
to walk from the highway down into the ditch which ran along
side the road, gave out a loud screaming sound before walking
off into the woods.

All four witnesses said when they first spotted the creature it
just walked slowly up the small incline to the highway and did
not stop until it was on the other side of the road, what ever
it was kept walking very slowly and it didn't seem to care if
there was anyone else around at the time.

Brian Vike of HBCC UFO Research is talking to the witnesses in
hopes of gathering any other possible information on this.

Thank you so much for the witnesses for their report.


--------------------

Nelson, British Columbia

(Two Reports) - Beam Of Light & Objects Splitting In Two.

Date:  January 11, 2004
Time:  8:15 p.m.

HBCC UFO took a telephone call from a fellow who resides in
Nelson, British Columbia. He wanted to make a report on
something unusual that he and his family witnessed on there way
back home from Salmo, B.C. which is a 41 kilometer drive to
home. Approximately 8 kilometers south of Nelson the fellows
wife pointed out the passenger side of their vehicle and said
look at that. There teenage children in the back got rather
excited when they saw it but the husband said it must be a
helicopter. Due to the man's wife insisting he slow the vehicle
down so they could have a much better look at it. What they all
saw was a narrow beam of light coming from the sky and lighting
up the side of a local mountain in the short distance. A rough
guess to the distance between them and the mountain where the
light was hitting it would have been approx: a half mile. Due to
the slope of the mountain side they could easily see the beam of
light hitting the forest.

As they followed the light back up into the sky they could not
see any type of aircraft or object. The fellow did say that
where the light originated from it was like it came from
something as they certainly could see where it came from, but
again could see nothing in the form of a craft of any kind. He
said it was like the light came from no where. Seeing it was at
night and being very dark they were not able to see what was
causing this light to shine down upon the forest. His wife did
roll down the passenger side window and could not hear any
sound. A guess to the altitude the light was originating from
may have put it just above the mountain top.

The total time the event lasted was approx:25 to 30 seconds
before the light went out. The witness I talked with said that
it sent shivers throughout his wife's body after it was over.
The kids thought it was pretty cool so he said.

They all arrived home safely and a strange story to tell their
friends and family.

What it was is anyone's guess. But what i do know is that "no"
aircraft were flying at that time in that area.

Thank you to the witnesses for their report.

------------------

Nelson, British Columbia

Date:  January 12, 2004
Time:  9:40 p.m.

A witnessed called from Nelson, British Columbia and explained
that he had observed a brilliant ball of white light traveling
slowly and extremely low over the town of Nelson, B.C. The
object was traveling in an easterly direction and as it got to
around the Cedar Street area it broke up into two pieces, one
then flew off to the southeast and the other went almost
directly to the north. The piece that went northward moved off
at a very fast rate of speed as the other moved a long slowly at
about the same rate of speed as the main ball of light. The
witness said there appeared to be no type of explosion when it
separated, they just seen to break in half. There was no sound
reported when he first noted the light and there was no sound
coming from it when it separated. He guessed the whole event
happened over a period of 7 or 8 seconds at most.

After breaking a part, the witness said the ball of light moving
to the north was gone in a split second as the other heading
southeast he was able to watch until he could not see it anymore
because of the distance from him to the ball of light. The
witness hope someone else will come forward to report this to
me.

Thank you to this witness for his report.

HBCC UFO would like to ask if anyone may have been witness to
either of these sightings would they please be kind enough to
contact me with their report.

---------------

Sicamous, British Columbia

Date:  December 26, 2003
Time:  approx: 11:30 p.m.
Sightings continue in this area.

I was wrapping up my year end reports for 2003 when a telephone
call came in on December 31, 2003. A lady had gone to the
internet in search of a Canadian UFO Investigator so she could
file a report on some strange on-going sightings which had been
taking place in her area. At one point the objects seen were so
frightening to her and the family, that the RCMP was called to
the witnesses residence to investigate. The witness did state
that she was not going to call this a UFO, meaning something
from another world because she really did not firmly believe in
this. The lady went on to say that what she and her family have
been observing was something they could not explain. Be it
military or something else, whatever these objects are, they do
some very bizarre things in the sky.

On December 26, 2003 the dispatcher for the  Sicamous, British
Columbia RCMP detachment took a call from an excited woman who
requested the RCMP  come to her home and look into the unusual
sights that had been taking place over a period of time. Whilst
making the report she felt that she wasn't being taken seriously
... and that maybe they thought her to be a little crazy..
however when an hour passed and the RCMP officer arrived in her
yard it was a different story.  As soon as he saw the object he
stood and looked in amazement.  He had no idea what it was.

I was told that the officer left the families home and drove
towards the mountain where the object was sitting to get a
closer and better look. (HBCC UFO Note: So far I have left two
messages with the Sicamous RCMP detachment to have the constable
call me back using my toll free number and as of yet he has not
returned my call. I am not giving up on him, and I will keep
trying until I get a hold of him even if it means becoming a
pest).

"An important part to this case is that excellent video footage
has been shot by the family".

As the tape is rolling you can hear the children in the
background commenting on how quickly the object was moving all
over the sky. It appears to be moving rather quickly, zig
zagging, etc.. I asked the witness about how she was holding the
camera, knowing that any slight movement while video taping can
make "something" appear to move. In the footage it shows the
object moving erratically around the sky. The other members of
her family who stood watching this event unfold saw the very
same thing with the naked eye..... something flying all around
the sky.

The witness said  these objects (plural as there are more than
one at different times) ..... was also seen by her husband
whilst he was up in the mountains which is around their area.
 He described one of the objects as being as big as a house and
covered in lights.  At the time, he was waiting for his daughter
and her cousin to return with the snowmobile.  He watched the
object with his naked eye and estimated it to be approximately a
mile away from his location.

He was so excited and frightened at what he saw whilst he
waited...  that he immediately drove back home, ran into the
house and told his wife of his adventure.  She thought he had
been drinking as he was acting strange and obviously was very
scared.  Knowing they had to go back out to that location where
the object was seen because they had to pick up the kids, the
gentleman said he was not going back out there alone !  The
husband's sighting took place before December 26, 2003, and what
the family caught on tape on December 26, 2003 was the same
object.  It had returned.

They also saw the object through their binoculars and described
it as being in the shape of an acorn or a diamond.

It was an extraordinary sighting because not only did the object
shine brightly and move around erratically ... but at one point
when it was stationary ... it shot out a large red fireball,
then six bright orange lights appeared in the sky around it.
 Each of the orange lights had another two white lights on them.
   These white lights shot a beam of light towards the ground.
 Approximately  half an hour later four more of the large
acorn/diamond shaped objects showed up and sat either stationary
or moved around the sky. The witnesses said the objects appeared
to have hundreds of lights on each of them.

These folks have recently moved into this home, but the previous
owners said they used to watch in the daylight hours ... on many
occasions silver disk shaped objects flying over and around the
mountains behind the house.

This case is under investigation and this is only raw data at
present. Video tape is currently being examined.

A foot note to this. The lady who reported the sighting and who
rang the RCMP told me that when the constable arrived and saw
the object .. he commented to her that he knew of nothing that
moved that quickly ... nor of anything that could stop like it
did on a dime.

This story proved interesting enough that the television station
(CHBC TV out of Kelowna, British Columbia) sent a news crew to
interview  the family and to get a copy of the footage. CHBC TV
is a part of the Global TV network which is one of Canada's
giants in the media business. The story ended up airing not just
on that station, but aired all over British Columbia on Global
BCTV. They ran the story at least three times as a part of their
news. Once at 6:00 p.m. Friday night, again at 11:00 p.m. and
again on the Saturday morning news.  As I was the investigator
on the case they also called me a number of times and
interviewed me about the story. The news gave this story a good
length of time to play out on TV which was really great to see.

Something else of interest prior to these sightings but in the
same area was when an RCMP officer who was out on his usual
rounds in his patrol car ... noticed an object in the sky and
was instantly hit with a beam of light from it.   After his
shift was over and upon his return to his detachment he informed
his co-workers of what he had seen.  They thought he was seeing
things.   Now perhaps they have a different interpretation of
the event.

Sicamous, British Columbia Update:

Update: Sicamous, British Columbia Sighting
Date: Tuesday, January 20 @ 20:13:20 CST
Topic: British Columbia Reports

RCMP Report.

Date: December 26, 2003 Time: approx: 11:30 p.m.

This report is a short update on the case I am working on. After
the witnesses from Sicamous, B.C. contacted me over what they
had saw, I immediately started an investigation into the case. I
called the Sicamous RCMP Detachment and requested to speak to
the Constable who attended to the call. I was told by the
dispatcher that he wasn't in that day and I left a message for
him to call me back at my toll free number. I did talk briefly
to the dispatcher who took the call that night from the excited
witnesses. He did confirm a report was made and a RCMP Constable
did go to the witnesses home to see what all the fuss was about.

After several days had past I received a telephone call from the
RCMP officer who drove out to take a look at what the family was
reporting. (the reason why there was a delay in the officer
calling me back was due to him being off for a few days)

The police officer was pleasant to talk to and we had a nice
discussion. He was very helpful in providing me with information
on what he saw when he arrived at the location. He was directed
to where the object was sitting in the sky. At this point the
witnesses said to the officer that the object had moved slightly
up higher in the sky and that they had taken video of it. The
constable also told me that the witnesses said that it looked
more like a diamond in shape when it was lower and orange lights
had kept coming and going from the object.

The RCMP constable said the witness did point out one orange
colored light to him, which he admits to seeing, but he did say
he did not see it move. On the large object which caught
everyone's attention that night, I asked the officer if he would
be able to describe this to me. He said it was stationary, blue
and red lights with clear lighting, almost white light in the
middle. The officer also said he did not know what it was. It
could have been a number of things. The constable did look
through the binoculars at the object and gave me the description
of what he saw and whatever it was, was just sitting there. So
the officer did see it but he cannot testify to it moving around
as he did not see this happen while he was there for a short
period of time. The member went back to the detachment to get a
phone number for a UFO group who might want to look into the
sighting and passed it along to the family. The family called a
UFO group and left as message but no one returned their call.

They kept searching on internet and found HBCCUFO ...

Another update will be coming shortly with the results of what
was caught on video.

If anyone in the local areas around Sicamous, Salmon Arm, Chase,
Sorrento, Enderby and communities in-between have maybe noticed
this object, or something else unusual in the skies would you
please be kind enough to contact me with the information.

Thank you
Brian Vike, Director
HBCC UFO Research
Canadian Toll Free UFO Hotline 1 866 262 1989 - Free call.
email: hbccufo.nul
Home phone 250 845 2189
http://www.hbccufo.com








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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   Feb > Feb 6

               Re: Tracing The Flow Of The Gulf Breeze Money -

From: Robert Gates <RGates8254.nul>
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 02:14:08 EST
Fwd Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 12:07:50 -0500
Subject: Re: Tracing The Flow Of The Gulf Breeze Money -


>From: Jerry Black <gulfbreezeinfo.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 19:13:29 -0800 (PST)
>Subject: Tracing The Flow Of The Gulf Breeze Money


>February 4, 2004

>Part I.

>Tracing The Flow Of The Money

>To Mr. Bruce Maccabee and other interested parties,

Jerry,

I read with interest your piece and was disappointed as it
appears to be a bunch of allegations that don't have any details
substantiated. I would like to ask some questions and get a
detailed straight answer.

What date and exactly how much did Ed Walters give money to
MUFON/FUFOR? What was the context of the money? Donation?  Do
you have a copy of any agreement/email/letter and or
communication between Ed Walters and or Walt Andrus?

Do you have a copy of the letter Walters allegedly wrote to
Hyzer and or Salisbery about the photos? Do you know for a fact
that he (Walters) had the report in his hands, meaning that
somebody at MUFON received the reports from Hyzer/Salisbery,
promptly over nighted them to Walters? Timing would be critical
here. One could almost conclude that somebody up the vine just
pickup the phone and call Walters about something in one of the
reports.

Do you have a copy of the 5000.00 Walters check or a specific
admission from Bob Oechsler for the alleged work he did on the
Walters photo(s)?

I look forward to the detailed answers.


Cheers,

Robert







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   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   Feb > Feb 6

               Re: "Sight Unseen:" Distortions and Innuendos -

From: Luis R. Gonzalez <lrgm.nul>
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 10:10:45 +0100
Fwd Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 12:37:09 -0500
Subject: Re: "Sight Unseen:" Distortions and Innuendos -


>From: Katharina Wilson <K_Wilson.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 15:43:10 -0500
>Subject: "Sight Unseen:" Distortions and Innuendos

>I am truly disappointed in the way my case and Hopkins' and
>Rainey's one or two possible explanations relating to it has
>been distorted and misquoted by some on this List.

Sorry, Katharina, up to now I have considered you a serious
person, even if I do not believe in the objective reality of
your stories. I only mentioned your case, just because _you_
wrote about it first and I wished to take advantage of your
presence here to learn more. Remember I wrote:

>>But, taking advantage of Katharina Wilson's presence,
>>I would like to learn more about her "airport incident".

>>As presented in the book, Budd's "Strange Case of
>>the Relictant Faucets" goes like this (please, correct me
>>if I get something wrong):


Can you explain precisely what I so grossly distorted and
misquoted?

>I gave Budd Hopkins and Carol Rainey permission to publish my
>case in their book. With all due respect to Errol, I did not
>give Luis R. Gonzalez permission to re-write, summarize and ad
>innuendo to it, to be published on UFO UpPates or any other
>List.

>The material is copyrighted and in my opinion, the way it was
>used does not fall into "fair usage" under copyright law.

>Because of misstatements of the facts and personal innuendos,
>people who do not read the book are going to have a completely
>biased view of that particular case and possibly the entire
>book. That must be what Mr. Gonzalez was after in the first
>place.


Please, what personal innuendos did I write in my summary? I
have read it again in case I missed something offensive I might
have written, and do not find a word. Which misstatements? Any
summary is precisely that, summarized, but I think I did not
leave outside anything important or distorted excesively the
situation..... In any case, I sincerely have never intended to
insult anybody, and ask forgiveness if I have offended you
unwillingly.

You make a terrible accusation: that my "real" intention
probably was to infuse in potential readers a biased view. You
cannot be more wrong. My personal position is always trying to
get the first hand version of anything. This is why, to mention
an example I already used in this List, I got and read
"Nighteyes" in reference to Linda Cortile's case; to ponder by
myself if the alleged similarities were such. So, here and now,
again I say. Please, do not trust any opinion here, reach your
own one, reading "Sight Unseen" and even, if the persons are
willing and cooperative, asking them (publicly or privately) for
clarifications. In this case, you Katharina, just a few days
Linda Cortile, some months ago John Velez.

Unfortunately, it seems that you cannot accept any other
interpretation that the one you are already committed to. If I
began dissecting any incident trying to get the real facts (not
coloured by _any_ interpretation), the response I got is always
a tantrum, accusations of disloyalty or worse, and the severance
of any future exchange.

>What you have read by some on this List are not the facts
>pertaining to my case or the way it was presented in "Sight
>Unseen."

>If you want to understand all sides of the issues being
>discussed here, go buy the book, or better yet, since Mr.
>Gonzalez thinks it is such a bad book, maybe he can mail you his
>copy.

Sorry, I am a compulsive reader and book-lover. If I had thrown
away all the bad books I have bought, my library would be quite,
quite small. I sincerely think the book is worth reading, but
not worth buying. In fact, I have just read it from cover to
cover. But I was confirmed in my initial idea (not surprise
here, you surely think), it is not even original, if only I miss
any discussion about antigravity. It belongs to the old lineage
of ufological books (almost since the early 50s) which
extrapolating wildly from the scientific knowledge at the time,
tried to explain why those magical UFOs are not so unbelievable
after all.

>>I got it last Christmas, read the dust covers, leafed through
>>it, and put it back behind some other titles like Howe's
>>Glimpses... (I finally decided to get them after the recent
>>debate about that alleged Brazilian abduction's photos). But I
>>disgress.....

>Mr. Gonzalez, could you please tell the List and me what Linda
>Howe's "Glimpses of Other Realities" and the alleged Brazilian
>abductions have to do with my case?

Absolutely _nothing_. Believe me or not, I was only explaining
why I have delayed the reading of "Sight Unseen".

>The question is rhetorical - your innuendo is perfectly clear.

You are reading malevolent intentions, where there is none.

>Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but keep the facts
>straight and don't _rewrite_ any more portions of my case to
>serve your preconceived notion of what you _think_ happened to
>me.

I do not know what happened to you. But I cannot avoid my
surprise. As I said at the beginning, I really considered you a
serious and intelligent person (and before you say so, I do
_not_ think you are hoaxing anything). So, it really surprise me
that such an intelligent person would be unable to make a
"reality check" at the restroom: stop and look clearly for her
reflection in any mirror, touch anybody, etc. If what Hopkins
wrote about your incident is precise, it really shows that you
were far more agitated and confused that you really acknowledge.

After following the reactions in this thread, I have abandoned
all hope of having a rational debate here anytime. If I dare not
to agree with your interpretations of your anecdotal stories, I
am not only an idiot, uncapable to see such a clear reality
(this could certainly be true, even if it would be hard to
admit), but I am also a bad person, purposely trying to insult
and denigrate other people for my own dark interests. And that
is _neither_ true _nor_ acceptable.

I try never to read intentions behind words. I am quite fed up
others do that continuosly as an excuse not to debate.


Sincerely,

Luis R. Gonzalez Manso








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   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   Feb > Feb 6

                        Re: State Of Ufology - Kaeser

From: Steven Kaeser <steve.nul>
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 07:49:50 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 12:57:02 -0500
Subject: Re: State Of Ufology - Kaeser


>From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 13:14:18 -0800
>Subject: Re: State Of Ufology

>>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 22:25:39 +0000
>>Subject: Re: State Of Ufology

>>>From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman.nul>
>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 11:18:15 -0800
>>>Subject: Re: State Of Ufology

>>>>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
>>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>>Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 22:13:19 +0000
>>>>Subject: State Of Ufology

<snip>

This thread, by itself, appears to exemplify the "State of
Ufology" today. Given the broad umbrella of beliefs and theories
(often based on little more than flawed evidence and faith)
there's no question as to how large a target those in this field
have become.

If the Government keeps something secret, it must be related to
UFOs.

If there is some phenomenon that we can't explain or understand,
if must be related to UFOs.

If a disease suddenly begins to spread and cause problems for
humanity, it must be caused by the evil government empire and
thus, related to UFOs.

This scatterbrained nonsense is the reason that many good
researchers have left the field in disgust, which I guess leaves
more room for the paranoia.


Steve







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   Feb > Feb 6

                     Re: Review Of Sight Unseen - Miller

From: Stuart Miller <Stuart.Miller4.nul>
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 13:01:28 -0000
Fwd Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 12:58:02 -0500
Subject: Re: Review Of Sight Unseen - Miller


>From: John Rimmer <jrimmer.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 20:48:34 +0000
>Subject: Re: Review Of Sight Unseen


>>From: Stuart Miller <Stuart.Miller4.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 15:55:46 -0000
>>Subject: Re: Review Of Sight Unseen

>>>From: John Harney <magonia.nul>
>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 21:15:29 -0000
>>>Subject: Re: Review Of Sight Unseen - Harney

>The Sage of Altrincham (twinned with Canby, I believe) writes:

Actually, I don't live in Altrincham!

<snip>

>>How do you get off, John, giving Gerry Clark a hard time about
>>where he lives when you dwell under a slab with a load of
>>stiffs?

>For the record: it is John Rimmer (i.e. me) who "lives under a
>slab in Mortlake Cemetery", or, as I would prefer to put it,
>"lives in an quaint period cottage adjoining an attractive and
>historic open space", and John Harney (who wrote the posting
>that appears to have got you foaming at the mouth) who lives in
>a modern apartment in vibrant downtown Bracknell. Maybe before
>accusing other people of not reading things, you should get your
>own ocular gear in order.

Why does this this feel like a scene from "The Night Of The
Living Dead"? Two posts from two zombies, arms outsretched,
reeling towards me with eyes ablaze.

If you want to play that game John then I would be happy to sink
into the mire with you and bore the rest of this List utterley
witless with pathetic side stepping of issues and points. I've
already started the ball rolling with my opening statement about
where I live. I live in Bowdon which is a suburb of Altrincham.

http://www.magonia.demon.co.uk/history.html

The link shows that at the very least Yawn probably grew up and
lived in Murkeyside. That he now lives in Bracknell is perfectly
understandable. Firstly, it is far to close to Slough which is
David Brent territory. Secondly, it is perfectly reasonable for
him to wish to distance himself as much as possible from any
association with your home town. I sympathise there. But as
usual, you fuss with the detail and avoid the actual issue. This
is because you are both intellectual light weights incapable of
sustaining any argument or point.

>>just like Budd cannot speak or write about
>>abductions because he started life as an artist. There is a law
>>that says that once you start something in life, then that is
>>what you stick to. Thankfully for the rest of us, that law
>>exists only in the terribly compartmentalised brain of John
>>Harney.

>So Hopkins has *two* professions: one is as an artist, and the
>other is as a writer of sensationalised books about abductions.
>Neither is likely to be harmed by his latest publication.

Spot on! Partcularly his reputation as a writer which, far from
being harmed, will actually be advanced as result of this
publication. Try engaging brain before pressing keys on
keyboard.

Right, on to the next zombie.

Stuart Miller








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              Re: Michael J. Woods On NASA's Motives - Lehmberg

From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg.nul>
Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 07:06:56 -0600
Fwd Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 12:59:45 -0500
Subject: Re: Michael J. Woods On NASA's Motives - Lehmberg


>From: Lan Fleming <lfleming5.nul>
>To: UFO Updates <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 20:15:43 -0600
>Subject: Re: Michael J. Woods On NASA's Motives

>>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>>To: UFO Updates <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 17:17:42 -0500
>>Subject: Re: Michael J. Woods On NASA's Motives - Stanford

<snip>

>This is why I think the idea is overly simplistic that NASA
>would eagerly and promptly announce the discovery of evidence of
>intelligent life on another planet because of the big budget
>increase they would get. I very much suspect that any such
>announcement would be cleared with the national security
>agencies (such as the NSA) before it was made. If NASA was told
>to cover something up in the name of national security, I've
>little doubt that they would comply.

>Given Ray's own unhappy experience with the Socorro sample he
>submitted to NASA for analysis, I would think he might at least
>have some mixed feelings in that regard.

I don't know what everybody's problem with NASA is when they
have been so _perfectly_ forthcoming with regard to official
footage of UFOs.  I mean, look how stolid they've been about
STS48 as just _one_ example! <LOL>


Lehmberg.nul

EXPLORE "AlienViewGroup" at its HostPros URL.
http://www.alienview.net


JOHN FORD RESTORATION FUND -- John will be released eventually.
He'll need a tax free cash stake to get on his feet. Let's put
one together for him; the bigger it is -- the more attention
he gets. It could have been you. E-mail for detail.
$450.00 pledged -- $200.00 collected!

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite.
What others see from afar, I leave far behind me."
- Giordano Bruno, scourged by the scabrously specious scurrilous.








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                       Re: The Beveridge UFO - Warren

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 05:46:57 -0800
Fwd Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 13:01:46 -0500
Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO - Warren


>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 16:18:25 -0500
>Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO

>>From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 08:13:39 -0600
>>Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO

>>>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 18:36:22 -0800
>>>Subject: The Beveridge UFO

>>>Oh and by the way - the thingy in the picture was a bug flying
>>>by in close proximity to the camera!

>>Okay, but what kind of bug?

>Simple, my dear Watson! It was a camera bug.

>:) Sorry, I couldn't resist.


Tim, Ray,

Er... shutterbug!


Frank










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                      Re: State Of Ufology - Goldstein

From: Josh Goldstein <lovolution.nul>
Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 06:09:47 -0800
Fwd Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 13:04:33 -0500
Subject: Re: State Of Ufology - Goldstein


>From: Steven Kaeser <steve.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 10:33:54 -0500
>Subject: Re: State Of Ufology

>>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 22:25:39 +0000
>>Subject: Re: State Of Ufology

<snip>

>In a recent magazine article, a major UFO author was quoted as
>saying that one of his prime "scientific" sources of information
>was the MUFON Journal, which just about caused me to fall out of
>my chair laughing. IMO, the Journal of UFO Studies (which is
>published infrequently) is the only UFO publication that could
>be considered to be scientific. There are certainly good
>articles in the MUFON Journal, IUR and other UFO publications.
>But none of them approach the level of a truly scientific
>journal, which is a problem for ufology.

Steve,

I agree with you and may I add that the problem of a lack of a
scientific journal is an extension of the larger problems that
Richard Hall laid out.

I hate to say it but to me the state of ufology is sad and
sorry. I have posred to the same over the years. Check the
archives if you have a particularly morbid desire to see what I
have been saying in more detail. <g>

Unless some things radically change, I suppose ufology will
drift on as I have experienced since the mid 1970s, full of
promise but so loaded down with egotistical saucer swindlers,
scam artists, cons, deluded believers, etc that it smothers the
promise. So much of popular ufology peddles to a public driven
by emotion and without the analytical skills and awareness to
begin to be able to try to remain objective and to be able to
determine truth from fiction. Certainly the media has taken
advantage of this and has profited.

I find it fascinating that Jerry Black has today brought up the
Gulf Breeze case. I remember all the investigation  and all the
rancor that went on and on. At some point I started questioning
how Walt Andrus and MUFON had come to their conclusions. It
caused me to have my first serious doubts about the integrity of
MUFON.

I was not involved in it but from being a lowly field
investigator and state section director for three counties in
California far outside of MUFON HQ it really affected me. I was
out of the loop but hot news of the slugfest got to me, as it
did to most ufo researchers and MUFON members. It was the talk
of the ufo world.

There are serious aspects of that case (the money is only one)
that after all these years are not resolved and deserve to be
settled once and for all. Please don't make it the massive and
longtime slugfest it was the first time around. Let's stick to
analyzing the evidence.

The weight of the above has caused many serious people and
institutions to steer clear of ufology because they are afraid
of being tainted with "the stigma" of a "UFO wacko". On this
list we have mentioned quite a number of cases deserving of
serious, scientific study. The sad state of ufology is that
there does not seem to be the interest and money available to
even scientifically investigate them let alone come to any
scientific conclusions. Scientific ufology is almost non-
existant while bloated popular ufology rules the roost.

Further into the sad state of ufology is having to let our arms
down from years of reaching for the holy grail of "what the
government knows". After all these years I still do not have any
factual idea of what they do or do not know about ufos. I may
never know that.

How can we get ufology in a better state than sad and sorry? I
have no realistic ideas at this point. I suspect things will
just go along as they have been.

Ed Gehrman, I am sorry to say that I have disagreed with every
post of yours on this List. But such is the cost of freedom as
we are looking at these issues in very different ways.


Keep 'em flyin',

Josh








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                        Re: State Of Ufology - Shell

From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 08:08:32 -0600
Fwd Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 13:06:07 -0500
Subject: Re: State Of Ufology - Shell


>From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 12:27:37 EST
>Subject: Re: State Of Ufology

>Look, the reason there's no en masse effort by the public to
>pressure the powers that be about UFOs is very simple:

>UFOs present no immediate danger or interruption of lifestyle.

I thought for a second there you were going to say because it
doesn't have anyone's exposed boob in it.








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                      Re: Janet Jackson & UFOs - Boone

From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 09:26:26 EST
Fwd Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 13:07:34 -0500
Subject: Re: Janet Jackson & UFOs - Boone


See! I told you so!

Already since the 'Super Bowl Incident' where singer Janet
Jackson exposed a breast the outcry is overwhelming to say the
least.

There are actually FCC investigations into the matter,
Congressional panels assembled and tens of thousands of news and
talk show hours and who knows how many miles of print dedicated
to it.

There hasn't been a marshalling of American resources this huge
since the invasion of Normandy and it's all because a prank has
gone awry.

It's the record breaking internet search item as well.

Yet 50 years of UFO sightings, solid citizens reporting
abductions and etc. and even a highly publicized sighting over a
major city for the umpteenth time don't warrant as much
attention and resources by our government?

What kind of bs is this? A woman bears a breast? We're mammals!
We're called mammals for a very simple reason:

We have mammary glands!

Only in the U.S. would some throwback nonsense like this occur.
With ever present real dangers to our very existence as a
species at hand the best our countrymen can do is piss and moan
about a woman showing a boob.

We're nuts. Plain and simple.

From now on whenever anyone mentions the Janet Jackson boob
incident again I'm going to say things like:

It wasn't a boob, it was a weather balloon.

How do you know it was a real boob? There's no solid evidence.

Can you produce anything other than videotape? Video can be
tampered with you know!

I'll believe it was a boob when I get my hands on it to examine!

Only one boob? You'll have to provide more than one boob to
convince me!

I'll have to ask Phil Klass if it's a real boob. He's older than
me and I'm sure he's seen his share of real boobs and if he says
it's a real boob I'll buy it.

Just because you saw it on the internet doesn't mean it's a real
boob.

Drudge does not mean it's real.

The govt. is looking into it. I'm sure they know a boob when
they see one.

No, the billion people watching the incident either live or on
tv aren't reliable witnesses. Just like the 'Phoenix Lights'
incident they were all drunk on beer and high carb diets.

It wasn't a real boob. Janet Jackson wasn't even at the
Superbowl that day. Our records show it was a crash test dummy
and dummy boobs don't count.

You 'thought' you saw a boob. It was probably time compression.

There was no boob on radar so it's not real.

I don't care if you heard about it on the Art Bell Show or the
Jeff Rense Show or Strange Days Show. Everyone knows those shows
are run by left wing sympathizers and the boob was a 'right
boob' and they're jealous!


Best,

Greg







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               Re: Tracing The Flow Of The Gulf Breeze Money -

From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 14:27:40 +0000
Fwd Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 13:10:13 -0500
Subject: Re: Tracing The Flow Of The Gulf Breeze Money -


>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 16:29:50 -0500
>Subject: Re: Tracing The Flow Of The Gulf Breeze Money

>>From: Jerry Black <gulfbreezeinfo.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 19:13:29 -0800 (PST)
>>Subject: Tracing The Flow Of The Gulf Breeze Money

>>February 4, 2004

>>Part I.

>>.Tracing The Flow Of The Money

>>To Mr. Bruce Maccabee and other interested parties,

>>Mr. Bruce Maccabee, I've taken the time to read over your
>>response to my one hour, taped interview, concerning the Gulf
>>Breeze sightings.

>>Your replies are filled with illogical conclusions to very
>>simple events, in some cases outright lies.

>>For years, investigators inside the MUFON organization and
>>outside the MUFON organization have wondered why there was never
>>a disparaging word in print against the Ed Walters Gulf Breeze
>>sightings. In many of the journals, in your reports and other
>>investigator's reports in the MUFON organization, I cannot find
>>one disparaging word against Ed Walters's sightings or his
>>claims of abduction.

>>Early on in the investigation of the Gulf Breeze sightings, Mr.
>>Ed Walters offered to pay the MUFON organization thousands of
>>dollars to help defray the cost of the investigation of the Gulf
>>Breeze sightings. In another words, Ed Walters offered MUFON
>>money to help them investigate his own case.

>>Mr. Walt Andrus, at that time, director of the Mutual UFO
>>Network, accepted that money.

>>By accepting that money, he
>>certainly created a conflict of interest. He also did not
>>acknowledge, to the general public, that he had received
>>thousands of dollars from Mr. Ed Walters to investigate the
>>case.

>I am not aware that Andrus accepted any money from Walters. I do
>not recall anything of the sort. However, you should take this
>up with Andrus himself.

>>Several investigators in the MUFON organization including
>>your self, Mr. Bruce Maccabee, knew this information. I have
>>never heard, in the history of ufology, of a subject under
>i>nvestigation by a UFO organization, paying for his own
>>investigation.

>I didn't know about it. Perhaps you can name those who did...
>assuming it happened!

>>The agreement that Walter Andrus had with Mr. Ed Walters was the
>>money would then be given to either the Fund for UFO Research or
>>to the MUFON Organization.

>>At that point, the monies were then given to you, Mr. Bruce
>>Maccabee either from the Fund for UFO Research or directly from
>>the MUFON organization. This was done because you were one of
>>the lead investigators in the Ed Walter's Gulf Breeze sightings.

>>Mr. Bruce Maccabee, you have said, for the past twelve years you
>>never received any monies from Ed Walters, other than the
>>eighteen thousand dollars for your part in writing a chapter in
>>his book. However, you did receive, as I stated early, thousands
>>of dollars, some saying as much as twenty thousand dollars from
>>the Fund for UFO Research or the MUFON organization, which was
>>donated to them by Mr. Ed Walters.

>>So no matter how you look at it Mr. Maccabee, the money came
>>from Mr. Ed. Walters pocket.

>>You neglected to tell people about the thousands of dollars you
>>received from one of those two organizations. This explains why
>>every time Ed Walters stumbled during his reporting of his
>>pictures and his abductions, you were always there to pick him
>>up. You Mr. Maccabee, were Mr. Ed Walters paid investigator. You
>>were not working for the Fund for UFO Research or the MUFON
>>organization, you sir, were working for Mr. Ed Walters.

>And You, Mr Black, have apparently become delusional.

>The Fund for UFO Research DID authorize me to expend Fund money
>to fly to Florida to investigate the case after a suggestion by
>Budd Hopkins that I should evaluate the photos. At the time
>(early February, 1988) I did not know who the photographer was
>and I was aware of only the first 5 photographs by Ed The cost
>of my plane ticket to Florida was about $300. I stayed overnight
>at the home of CHarles Flannigan, so there were no hotel
>expenses. Transportation was supplied I and mostly bought my own
>food. Hence the total amount of money paid to me by the Fund was
>about $300.

>Ed Walters never gave money to the Fund and, so far as I know,
>never gave money to MUFON, but as I said before, you'd have to
>take up the MUFON situation with Andrus (or Scheussler). I
>presume you can produce some evidence to back up your charges...
>evidence besides your own claims.

<snip>

If Ed Walters had given money to the Fund (especially in the
large sums alleged) for investigation of his photos, I certainly
would have known about it. This allegation is flatly untrue. The
Fund's financial transactions all are a matter of public record.

I am skeptical of Ed Walters and his photos, but not of Bruce
Maccabee whom I have know for 40 years since he was a young
graduate student volunteering time for NICAP. His integrity is
unquestioned. People can disagree about interpretations honestly
and honorably without having to impute dishonesty.


 - Dick Hall










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                        Re: The Beveridge UFO - Shell

From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 08:37:20 -0600
Fwd Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 13:12:15 -0500
Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO - Shell


>From: Diane Harrison <auforn.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul,
>Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 07:09:09 +1000
>Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO

>The Christmas Beetle is common in all parts of Australia their
>colors vary from brown to gold to silver - they are most common
>around Christmas time hence the name and can be seen throughout
>January.

So it could either be a Christmas beetle or a flying saucer
popping out of isospace.  I'll buy that.  As long as we're able
to narrow it down.

See, the point is, without additional factual evidence, your
"coulda" is just as valid as my "coulda."  The fact Christmas
beetles are common in the area around the time the photo was
taken might seem to have more weight to it as an explanation,
but it's a logical fault.  The most we can say is that something
caused a reaction in the pixels in the camera.  It could have
been a Christmas beetle.  It could have been a fault in the
camera.  It could have been a flying saucer from Tralfamadore.

Some couldas make the whole thing easier to dismiss than others,
though.

And it's a natural human tendency to want to explain and
categorize things.

If you follow the thread of the discussion, that's what you'll
see happening.  Presented with an unknown, we've tried to
squeeze as much factual data out of it as possible, and when
that got nowhere, we reduced our frustration level by
introducing a list of possible (although logically irrelevant)
"explanations."

My thought is that we just settle down and learn to live with
the idea that when presented with something like this, we just
admit our ignorance.  We don't know.  The photo is inconclusive
given the evidence we have.  Then we move on, but keep our eyes
open in case something else like it shows up again.  Again,
because ufo study has very limited resources, time management
becomes very important.  Analyze, report, file, move on.








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                       Re: The Beveridge UFO - Warren

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 07:13:30 -0800
Fwd Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 13:14:30 -0500
Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO - Warren


>From: Diane Harrison <auforn.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul,
>Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 07:09:09 +1000
>Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO

>>From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 08:13:39 -0600
>>Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO

>>>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 18:36:22 -0800
>>>Subject: The Beveridge UFO

>>>Oh and by the way - the thingy in the picture was a bug flying
>>>by in close proximity to the camera!

>>Okay, but what kind of bug?


>Tim I can't prove the smug on the photo is a beetle I wish I
>could but if it is the most common kind of beetle to be in
>flight at this time of the year is the Christmas Beetle.

>http://www.geocities.com/brisbane_beetles/ChristmasBeetle.htm

>The Christmas Beetle is common in all parts of Australia their
>colors vary from brown to gold to silver - they are most common
>around Christmas time hence the name and can be seen throughout
>January.

>They have white to translucent type wings hidden under their
>shell like body and if captured in flight on a digital camera
>could appear to be dome shaped.

>To Frank & Amy thank you for your kind comments.

>Food for thought.

Diane, Tim, Et Al.,

You're welcome Diane - you and Amy (as well as others) have done
some excellent work on this case; unfortunately, there's not a
lot to "bite into".

Personally, in evaluating the photograph, and evaluating the
data from that, as well as the data about the camera itself and
the science of digital photography, (much of which was offered
here on the list) along with the environment the photo was taken
in, and the "lack of supporting evidence", I, for the moment
have come to the conclusion that what was captured digitally was
a flying insect with "light, or white colored wings". (Dan
Bright's enlargement of the photo seen here:

http://zaziork.com/astrobservation/images/DCP_4401_enl_res60.jpg

shows a body with two wings IMHO.

"Absence of evidence" of course is not "evidence of absence",
however; in some cases it can be construed as "partial evidence"
itself. E.g., methinks if this was a craft of some sort, (which
it appeared to be to me at first glance) given the time of day,
etc., I believe there "would have been" additional evidence,
i.e., eye witnesses, radar reports etc. Speaking of which has
anyone "eliminated that possibility?"

Of course, unless further evidence comes up, what remains is
"UO," (unknown object) as we can't even say for sure if it is
"self-propelled." As with anything that "comes down the pike" in
regards to a possible UFO sighting etc., it is necessary to go
through the motions, and that certainly has been done here to
great extent, and certainly is to be commended!

To that end, with the absence of further evidence, I felt some
attention should be brought to the machinery of what has taken
place since this photograph appeared in the public domain. That
machinery is the "expeditious collection, collation, evaluation
and dissemination of the data surrounding a UFO event!"

In other words, "I thought it necessary" to "focus on the
positive" of what has transpired since this "pic" came into
play, and that everyone involved deserved an "attaboy!" (And
girl).


Good Work!

Frank Warren








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                     Re: Review Of Sight Unseen - Miller

From: Stuart Miller <Stuart.Miller4.nul>
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 15:15:43 -0000
Fwd Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 00:43:19 -0500
Subject: Re: Review Of Sight Unseen - Miller


>From: John Harney <magonia.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 20:54:39 -0000
>Subject: Re: Review Of Sight Unseen


>>From: Stuart Miller <Stuart.Miller4.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 15:55:46 -0000
>>Subject: Re: Review Of Sight Unseen

>>>From: John Harney <magonia.nul>
>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 21:15:29 -0000
>>>Subject: Re: Review Of Sight Unseen - Harney

>>List

>I don't live near Mortlake Cemetery - aren't you confusing me
>with someone else?

<snip>

>>How do you get off, John, giving Gerry Clark a hard time about
>>where he lives when you dwell under a slab with a load of
>>stiffs?

>Again, you are confusing me with someone else. Wouldn't it be
>best to be clear as to who you are replying to before you start?

In this case, not really. It's either the monkey or the organ
grinder but which ever way it cuts, it's still the same.

<snip>

>>To follow this fatuous argument through to its childish
>>conclusion, on that basis then John go back to Liverpool where
>>you were born.
>
>I was not born in Liverpool. Who told you that?

No one. I made it up.

>>You cannot live in London because you weren't
>>born there, just like Budd cannot speak or write about
>>abductions because he started life as an artist. There is a law
>>that says that once you start something in life, then that is
>>what you stick to. Thankfully for the rest of us, that law
>>exists only in the terribly compartmentalised brain of John
>>Harney.

>Ah, at least you spelt my name right.

The mis-spelling of the other zombie's name was not a mistake.
I'm surprised that one got through.

<snip>

>>He does tell us what his methods are for checking as to whether
>>someone is telling him the truth or not. He makes mention of it
>>twice. Go and have a look for yourself. Here's a clue; the
>>second reference can be found, errrrr after the first!

>I have read the book, but don't have it to hand at the moment
>because the person you are obviously confusing me with is
>reading it. Anyway, if Hopkins really did have a technique for
>telling true from false abduction reports, it would need more
>than two "mentions" to describe it.

OK. Pick a number then. Has this got anything to do with that
bingo game that Chemical Andy was on about? Can I play too?

>>>Reasonable explanation? What reasonable explanation? You're
>>>joking, surely?

>>I don't tell jokes John. I have a sense of humour bypass. Having
>>said that, something amusing did strike me the other day. Have
>>you noticed how, in English upper middle class society, there is
>>a very close proximity in pronounciation between the words
>>"John" and "Yawn"?

>What is the relevance of "English upper middle class society" to
>this thread?

None. It was a spiteful and malicious attempt on my part to
indicate the close proximity between yourself and ennui. Package
yourself upYawn and sell yourself to insomniacs.

<snip>

>>Carol has based all her possibilities on hard fact. She has
>>taken solidly accredited, peer reviewed terrestrial based
>>scientific advancements and experiments and said, "This is what
>>we on earth can do already. It is therefore reasonable to
>>conclude that a more intelligent species can do the same thing
>>and possibly do it better." Darn! Isn't pseudo science a pain!

>All Carol Rainey's stuff about scientific advancements is the
>sort of thing you can read about in "New Scientist" every week.
>It is hardly reasonable to attempt to use it to explain stories
>which are unsupported by physical evidence and which are more
>rationally explained, or at least described, with reference to
>delusions, unusual mental states and distorted memories.

Oh this is funny. I take it then that you are dismissing New
Scientist as some pop rag filled with Readers Digest style,
spoon fed simplistic nonsense. Or something similar. I've no
idea where Carol drew her material from but even if by chance,
some came from New Scientist or some other similar publication,
does that somehow make it invalid? Are you saying New Scientist
publishes lies and disinformation?

So its all in the show is it John? The superficialities, the
source? As long as that appeals to your vanities then that's OK,
is it? And while I'm sure the barbs you aim at those who claim
to have been abducted are nothing they haven't heard before,
perhaps it might be a good idea to keep those private thoughts
just that. At least on this List.

>>>That's right - so long as it's a good read, why bother with the
>>>details or whether it makes sense or not? If you like fantastic
>>>yarns, why not read science fiction?

>>I do. I read some rag called Magnausea. Are we talking about the
>>same publication? The one I read is a good laugh if one wants to
>>enter the world of clenched buttocks and the overly anxious.
>>Filled with grovelling acolytes all laying prone at the feet of
>>King Yawn.

>Yes, as Magonia - or whatever rude name you like to call it -
> doesn't indulge in sensationalism and pseudoscientific
>nonsense, some people find it a bit boring. But, unlike certain
>other UFO journals, we have never attempted to turn it into an
>entertainment magazine and get a big readership by publishing
>amazing claims and fuzzy photographs by assorted cranks and
>frauds.


So Magnausea is neither entertaining or interesting. Well, fair
enough, you can't be accused of using this site to garner
further readership then. So while you directly accost UFO
Magazine readers, you indirectly label your following as boring
and devoid of any interest as Human Beings. John, we agree.
Trouble is, most of your readers would be quite happy to be
labled that way.


Stuart Miller








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                               Jim Mortellaro

From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg.nul>
Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 06:54:22 -0600
Fwd Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 00:40:54 -0500
Subject: Jim Mortellaro



UpDatesFolk --

Mary Sutherland of BUFO:

http://www.burlingtonnews.net/listen

interviewed "famous abductee" Dr. J. Mortellaro at this address
for around three hours...

http://www.buforadio.com/interviews/id7.html

Dr. Mortellaro wondered allowed at one point why some of the
abduction community wasn't more supportive of him... I mean...
he was a "hero" of same, an educated and hyper-intelligent
talent, a brave man standing tall in the face of overwhelming
opposition (with regard to evil aliens, persons who have
'inexplicably' turned on him, crippling responsibilities to an
ill wife and aging parents, contribution to community, law
enforcement, and the massive debilitating pain he must
personally endure every _second_ of his existence... no
respite). He just "didn't understand" it...

Ms. Sutherland did not press with regard to why some in the
abduction community might be reluctant to support the 'Doctor',
pity - it would have been interesting to hear what Mortellaro
had to say on the subject, given that he achieved his doctorate,
at all, demonstrating that he was minimally adept at *packaging*
a *product* into an article a target *customer* would likely
want to *buy*, even a smart, educated, experienced, and
_appropriately_ lettered customer (or customers).

Hmmmm... nothing wrong with responsible profit if profited
responsibly... oh... and Doctor Mortellaro does _not_ "own" the
sound files of the now defunct (...and what a tragically
needless waste _that_ was!) AlienViews II radio program, as he
reported to Ms. Sutherland.  Why would he _report_ that? If he
thinks he does, he should try to use them.  Verily.


Lehmberg.nul

EXPLORE "AlienViewGroup" at its HostPros URL.
http://www.alienview.net


JOHN FORD RESTORATION FUND -- John will be released eventually.
He'll need a tax free cash stake to get on his feet. Let's put
one together for him; the bigger it is -- the more attention
he gets. It could have been you. E-mail for detail.
$450.00 pledged -- $200.00 collected!

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite.
What others see from afar, I leave far behind me."
- Giordano Bruno, scourged by the scabrously specious scurrilous.








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                    Re: Review Of Sight Unseen - Gonzalez

From: Luis R. Gonzalez <lrgm.nul>
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 17:25:48 +0100
Fwd Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 07:55:15 -0500
Subject: Re: Review Of Sight Unseen - Gonzalez


>From: Nick Pope <nick.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 00:56:58 -0000
>Subject: Re: Review Of Sight Unseen

>I'm not sure that Budd Hopkins has claimed to have a sure-fire
>way of checking the veracity of witnesses. What I have heard him
>say previously is that he has some techniques to smoke out
>witnesses who are confabulating, or making up stories that they
>think he wants to hear.

<snip>

All this would be perfect if he somehow had calibrated his
techniques. Unfortunately, even when I asked publicly, I have
never read any example of an "IFO abduction", if you get what I
mean.

I do not trust any UFO investigator who, at least, had not
discovered after investigation that 50% of his UFO cases are
IFO. Curiosuly, not a single US abduction researcher has ever
publicly recognized to have found a trivial explanation for an
abduction he had spent time investigating. Let me contrast that
with the Spanish situation:

Here in Spain, we had 3 world-wide known abductions (all of them
substantially through Antonio Ribera=B4s articles in FSR).

First, we got "Julio F.". Unfortunately, after the initial
investigation and regressive hypnosis (by non other that Mr.
Jordan Pe=F1a, UMMO's hoaxer) nobody has been able to contact the
witness who allegedly died a few years later.

Third, we have the "strange case of the Jinn and the dolmen",
including even several close-up photos of the alleged alien
abductors. Nobody has been able to reinvestigate the case.

And second, we have "Prospera Munoz". One serious investigator
(Mr. Jose Ruesga) had followed her case for many years, becoming
even a personal friend of the lady. His conclusion about the
case is clear: some kind of unconscious confabulation due to a
stressful familiar situation.

I am sure that if US researchers would public acknowledge and
explain that they were sometimes fooled by one of their alleged
abductees, their case would certainly get stronger, not the
contrary.

We all have heard about Dr. Mack's case, and I have read about a
similar incident with Leo Sprinkle, but even in those cases,
those investigators did not discovered the truth just by
themselves. On the contrary, they were forced to admit the truth
and limited themselves to ackowledge the situation, without
further explanations.

>I acknowledge that this is frustrating for other researchers. A
>similar debate rages over symbols reported by some abductees.
>Budd has a large database of such symbols and is often urged to
>publish the data. But he deliberately withholds this information
>so that he can use it as a way of cross-checking witness
>testimony. It would clearly be very interesting if different
>abductees reported having seen the same symbols, provided Budd
>could be sure that there had been no collusion. The moment the
>data are in the public domain, this technique would be invalid.

Well, one thing is to withhold data as a way of cross-checking,
and other quite different, to sit on it for many years, without
ever saying anything. After more than 25 years of
investigations, surely he should be able to answer a simple
question:

Has he ever found at least 3 independent abductees (ideally,
from 3 different investigators) who describe at least 4
identical complex symbols?

There are literally thousands of pages of alleged alien
writings, many of them publicly known, so I am not asking too
much.







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                     Re: New European UFO Survey - Hall

From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 16:31:45 +0000
Fwd Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 07:57:01 -0500
Subject: Re: New European UFO Survey - Hall


>From: Max Burns <max.burns.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 03:49:24 -0000
>Subject: Re: New European UFO Survey

>>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2004 20:43:02 +0000
>>Subject: Re: New European UFO Survey

>>>From: Max Burns <max.burns.nul>
>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 00:31:43 -0000
>>>Subject: Re: New European UFO Survey

>><snip>

>>>The mission statement and portfolio of this group looks
>>>impressive. I certainly hope that this group can recieve support
>>>from ufology as they make themselves known. Also, what they hope
>>>to achieve with this collaboration across a broad spectram of
>>>academia.

>>>I am sure the group will keep us all informed as they move into
>>>the full launch over the coming months.

>>>I welcome the European UFO survey to our global ufological
>>>family:

>>>http://www.europeanufosurvey.com/

>>As far as I can see all we still have is that oxymoronic
>>"anonymous science." They will receive no credibility whatsoever
>>without giving their names. Anyone can claim to have those
>>backgrounds. At the very least, they need to have a few willing
>>to speak out, giving their full identities.

>Richard, EBK and listers,

>Perhaps, there may be future releases of information in the
>coming months information that is not currently available on the
>web site It would be premature to judge the group before anyone
>has had an opertunity to listen and hear what they have to say.

>Especially as they are only in the early stages of the launch

>Surely time will tell.

Max,

I am not pre-judging anything, but instead merely making an
observation. In fact, I fervently hope that they are legitimate.
But let's take a hypothetical case:

If this group makes some statement alleging scientific validity
to UFOs or claiming to validate some aspect of related research
anonymously, good and influential scientists (be they
uncommitted or outright skeptics) will pay no attention. If
those same scientists see the statement(s) issuing from people
with legiitmate and verifiable scientific credentials, they will
be far more likely to take a look at the work, at least to the
extent of trying to find  fault wiith it or good reason to
modify their views.....

That's science.


 - Dick







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                      Nigeria Quashes Air Crash Rumour

From: Terry W. Colvin <fortean1.nul>
Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 09:52:12 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 08:00:47 -0500
Subject: Nigeria Quashes Air Crash Rumour


Source: BBCi

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/3458427.stm

2004/02/04

Nigeria quashes air crash rumour

The Nigerian authorities have called off the search for a plane
alleged to have crashed near the commercial capital, Lagos, last
week.

Aviation minister Malam Isa Yuguda said no evidence of a crash
had been found.

Mr Yuguda said investigations showed that neither Nigeria nor
any other country had declared a plane missing.

On Friday, several people said they had seen a commercial
aircraft capable of carrying 25 people ditch in the sea off
Lekki beach, to the east of Lagos.

The purported crash scene was less than one kilometre (half a
mile) from the beach - which is located on a busy flight path.

We didn't find any sign - no floating oil, no debris The world's
main news organisations - including the BBC - immediately
carried the reports.

Reuters news agency quoted a construction worker as saying: "We
were working when we saw a plane turning and twisting in the
air. Then suddenly it plunged into the ocean and we heard a loud
explosion."

Another "witness" told the Associated Press that white, yellow
and blue twin-engine plane had come down.

"I rushed down here and saw smoke. Only the nose was still above
the water," he said.

UFO

Nigerian aviation officials contacted various airlines - both
domestic and foreign - but none reported a missing plane. They
nevertheless sent crews to search for any wreckage

On Wednesday they confirmed that they had drawn a blank.

"We didn't find any sign - no floating oil, no debris," said the
head of the search operation Elyasu Bako said.

The minister advised that in future, announcements that could
cause panic to the industry should be confirmed through relevant
bodies, including his office, before being made public.

The head of the Nigeria Aviation Safety Initiative told Reuters
news agency that the crashed object had been classified as an
Unidentified Flying Object.


C. BBC MMIV


--
"Only a zit on the wart on the heinie of progress." Copyright
1992, Frank Rice


Terry W. Colvin, Sierra Vista, Arizona (USA)
fortean1.nul







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                      Re: State Of Ufology - Dickenson

From: Ray Dickenson <editor.nul>
Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 18:00:09 +0000
Fwd Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 08:03:22 -0500
Subject: Re: State Of Ufology -  Dickenson


>From: Kenny Young <ufo.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 03:14:46 -0500
>Subject: Re: State Of Ufology

>If academia had not abandoned the UFO subject, the
>snake-oil salesmen would not have stepped in to fill
>the vacuum

Question is - why did academia abandon the subject? Remember the
fate of the COMETA publication? (search for "cometa ihedn")

http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/1999/jul/m22-015.shtml

A high-level, technical and academic appraisal, it was
immediately attacked and persistently anti-propagandized at
great (gov't?) expense until most folk are now afraid to even
reference it.

Why were certain agencies afraid of the COMETA appraisal? I
suggest two basic reasons - in the text:


1) "the physical reality of UFOs, under control of
intelligent beings, is "quasi-certain." Only one hypothesis
takes into account the available data: the hypothesis of
extraterrestrial visitors."

2) "the possibility of secret, privileged contacts which
might be "attributed to the United States." The attitude of the
U.S. is seen as "most strange" since the 1947 wave"


And that "strange attitude" has since been imposed on other,
previously more open-minded regions, as Listers' memory will
show.

Latin-America, Europe and much of the world _not_ under
totalitarian rule was once more open-minded (excluding UK, the
most secretive, and arguably most corrupt bureaucracy in
Europe). All open-mindedness has now gone - secrecy and ridicule
is a given. Where is that pressure coming from?

Let's examine the (gov't sponsered) debunkers' only real
premise: "Everything presently unknown (what you can't measure
NOW) doesn't exist - by decree!"

Yes - it's the same premise used for imprisoning & burning
Giordano Bruno and for silencing Galileo.

Modern mind-control? Or secret take-over?

cheers

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Perceptions" http://www.perceptions.couk.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~





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                      Re: Janet Jackson & UFOs - Kaeser

From: Steven Kaeser <steve.nul>
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 13:48:26 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 08:14:41 -0500
Subject: Re: Janet Jackson & UFOs - Kaeser


[everything deleted for sanity reasons]

I find is somewhat amusing, and to a certain degree concerning,
that this List is degenerating into a discussion of the reality
of Janet Jackson's right breast.


Steve

-----

[And, of course, its all due to a] the lack of any UFO traffic
 on  the List and b] the total lack of humour on the part of
 any subscriber!

 Thread Archive Reads - Friday 02-07-04

 036 Re: Janet Jackson & UFOs - Boone
 006 Re: Janet Jackson & UFOs - Rimmer
 006 Re: Janet Jackson & UFOs - Maccabee
 004 Re: Janet Jackson & UFOs - Kaeser
 004 Janet Jackson & UFOs

                                --ebk]









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             Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Maccabee

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 13:49:08 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 08:17:28 -0500
Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Maccabee


>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 11:56:47 -0500
>Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph

>>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 00:23:50 -0500
>>Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph

>Could better size, distance and speed estimates be obtained by
>getting more detailed information directly from the camera man
>himself? E.g. If we knew the precise distance to the first
>telephone pole (from the camera) would that information aid in
>determining the distance to the object in question.

>Getting some kind of read on size, distance and speed is
>paramount to our ability to determine if it is a 'bird' or a
>'fly' that was captured in mid-flight.

Knowing the distance is very important, obviously. Unfortunately
even if we knew exact distances to all the known objects in the
photo that wouldn't help us determine the distance to the UO
(unknown object). If we knew, a priori, some information about
the object (such as its size!) we could determine the distance.
In a rare case (McMinnville photos) the photographic information
was sufficient to provide a distance estimate based on
atmospheric attenuation and scatering of light. Unfortunately
the image conditions that pertained to the (first) McMinnville
photo do not occur here. HAD THERE BEEN VISUAL WITNESSES.... we
might be in a better position to estimate distance. If, for
example someone had said "it went behind the telephone pole"...
well, then we would know it wasn't a bug. And so on.


*Amy: You keep saying that 'some people have identified the
object as a flying saucer' which isn't true. There is a huge
difference between someone saying that what they see 'looks'
like a flying saucer, and a statement that it _is_ a flying
saucer. Until you learn to make that simple distinction you're
going to have trouble understanding what many of us _are_
saying.

I really don't believe that any of the members of this List are
ignorant enough to make such a wild and unsubstantiated claim. I
am deeply surprised that you do think so. This is a pretty
bright group of individuals (overall) that we have assembled
here. A lot of contentious bickering could be eliminated if you
stop insisting on misinterpreting what people are saying.

Let's all get on the same page here. We'll get a lot more
accomplished and with minimal disruption in the flow of the work
being done.









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                       Re: State Of Ufology - Gehrman

From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman.nul>
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 11:06:38 -0800
Fwd Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 08:22:03 -0500
Subject: Re: State Of Ufology - Gehrman


>From: Josh Goldstein <lovolution.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 06:09:47 -0800
>Subject: Re: State Of Ufology

>>From: Steven Kaeser <steve.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 10:33:54 -0500
>>Subject: Re: State Of Ufology

<snip>

>Further into the sad state of ufology is having to let our arms
>down from years of reaching for the holy grail of "what the
>government knows". After all these years I still do not have any
>factual idea of what they do or do not know about ufos. I may
>never know that.

>How can we get ufology in a better state than sad and sorry? I
>have no realistic ideas at this point. I suspect things will
>just go along as they have been.

>Ed Gehrman, I am sorry to say that I have disagreed with every
>post of yours on this List. But such is the cost of freedom as
>we are looking at these issues in very different ways.


Josh,

Really? Maybe you could offer one specific example.

How else is a guy to change if not shown the error of his ways?

I'm just a nobody who happens to have some interest in UFOs.

My approach is very scientific, using Randi's definition,
so I don't see any reason we should be "looking at these issues
in very different ways" except that you might refuse to examine the
information I've brought to the List.

Are you saying there isn't a cover-up and that it's just the
incompetence of the UFO investigators, or the distraction of the
UFO sideshow that prevents the truth from being revealed?


Ed








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                        Re: State Of Ufology - Clark

From: Jerome Clark <jkclark.nul>
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 13:20:43 -0600
Fwd Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 08:28:47 -0500
Subject: Re: State Of Ufology - Clark


>From: Josh Goldstein <lovolution.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 06:09:47 -0800
>Subject: Re: State Of Ufology

>>From: Steven Kaeser <steve.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 10:33:54 -0500
>>Subject: Re: State Of Ufology

>>>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 22:25:39 +0000
>>>Subject: Re: State Of Ufology


Josh,

>I agree with you and may I add that the problem of a lack of a
>scientific journal is an extension of the larger problems that
>Richard Hall laid out.

What do you mean, "a lack of a scientific journal"?

Two scientific journals serve ufology. One is the Journal of UFO
Studies (JUFOS), published by CUFOS, and the other - not
exclusively ufological in content, but a frequent publisher of
scientific UFO papers - is the Journal of Scientific
Exploration, published by the Society for Scientific Exploration
(SSE).

Ufology, everybody knows, has lots of problems, but one of them
is not that it has no outlets for refereed academic papers. One
problem, however, may be to get ufologists to subscribe to and
otherwise support them. Knowing they exist is at least a start.


Jerry Clark








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                      Re: The Beveridge UFO - Stanford

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 14:47:47 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 08:43:33 -0500
Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO - Stanford


>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 05:46:57 -0800
>Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO

>>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 16:18:25 -0500
>>Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO

>>>From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 08:13:39 -0600
>>>Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO

>>>>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
>>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>>Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 18:36:22 -0800
>>>>Subject: The Beveridge UFO

>>>>Oh and by the way - the thingy in the picture was a bug flying
>>>>by in close proximity to the camera!

>>>Okay, but what kind of bug?

>>Simple, my dear Watson! It was a camera bug.

>>:) Sorry, I couldn't resist.

>Tim, Ray,

>Er... shutterbug!

Thanks, Frank. That reduces the analysis further, in fact,
revealing it as an 'open-and-shut' case! :) <groan>

That saves us all some time. :)

Ray Stanford

"You know my method.  It is founded upon the observance of
trifles." -- Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery








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               Re: "Sight Unseen:" Distortions and Innuendos -

From: Katharina Wilson <K_Wilson.nul>
Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 14:57:06 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 08:49:01 -0500
Subject: Re: "Sight Unseen:" Distortions and Innuendos - Wilson


>From: Luis R. Gonzalez <lrgm.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 10:10:45 +0100
>Subject: Re: "Sight Unseen:" Distortions and Innuendos

>>From: Katharina Wilson <K_Wilson.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 15:43:10 -0500
>>Subject: "Sight Unseen:" Distortions and Innuendos

>>I am truly disappointed in the way my case and Hopkins' and
>>Rainey's one or two possible explanations relating to it has
>>been distorted and misquoted by some on this List.

>Sorry, Katharina, up to now I have considered you a serious
>person, even if I do not believe in the objective reality of
>your stories. I only mentioned your case, just because _you_
>wrote about it first and I wished to take advantage of your
>presence here to learn more. Remember I wrote:

>>>But, taking advantage of Katharina Wilson's presence,
>>>I would like to learn more about her "airport incident".

Okay. Going back to a few of the questions in your original or
second post: One was about wondering if the plane was even on
time:

Yes, the plane landed on time, as I remember, we were actually a
few minutes early.

The women's restroom was right across the wide hall area as I
exited the ramp from the plane. It was basically a straight line
with approximately a 20 to 30-degree straight line path, so it
did not take long at all to reach the ladies' room.

In other words, the ladies' room was right across from where I
exited the plane, but slightly to my left.

To paraphrase: you also asked why I didn't say something louder
to other people in the restroom or why didn't I touch anyone.

I spoke to the girl in a normal voice and when she basically
ignored me, I thought it was sort of rude because I know or
thought she should have heard me.

She walked away and I basically just looked at her in disbelief.
Either she completely ignored me or she didn't hear me, which to
me, was impossible. I was almost face to face with her.

I wasn't angry enough to shout out to anyone, it's not really my
nature. I would have felt embarrassed by creating a "scene."

<snip>

>Unfortunately, it seems that you cannot accept any other
>interpretation that the one you are already committed to.

My interpretation of this event is that I experienced the
phenomenon of missing time. I have no doubt of that since that
is what all of the events led me to believe. I also do not have
another term for missing an hour or so from my life, without
having any memory of being attacked, hit over the head, drugged,
kidnapped, etc.

I recall that you questioned if I had read my watch correctly:

I am sure I read my watch correctly. If I suspected that I had
not, (and had I not experienced the unusual feelings/emotions
that I did) I never would have suspected anything and I would
have never made any personal documentation of this event in my
journal.

You also seemed to make an issue of my telephoning my
husband from the airport as opposed to my hotel room as I
normally do.

I don't know what to make of that. (?) So, I called him from the
airport instead. I think I told him I would call as soon as I
got to the airport - Just in case anyone wants to know, I also
telephoned him when I got to my room.

It may have been my feelings of being panicked, perhaps I just
wanted to hear his voice? But, in my opinion, it does not have
any particular bearing on the facts of the case except for the
amount of time I was on the phone, which was not long at all,
about two or three minutes.

<snip>

>>Mr. Gonzalez, could you please tell the List and me what Linda
>>Howe's "Glimpses of Other Realities" and the alleged Brazilian
>>abductions have to do with my case?

>Absolutely _nothing_. Believe me or not, I was only explaining
>why I have delayed the reading of "Sight Unseen".

>>The question is rhetorical - your innuendo is perfectly clear.

>You are reading malevolent intentions, where there is none.

The innuendo that I read into this is: Everyone else on this
List is very familiar with the alleged (now infamous) Brazilian
abduction case and Linda Howe's reporting of it and her
interpretation. It really seemed to me that you were lumping
this book into the same category as that case, which did not
turn out so well for Ms. Howe.

<snip>

>I do not know what happened to you. But I cannot avoid my
>surprise. As I said at the beginning, I really considered you a
>serious and intelligent person (and before you say so, I do
>_not_ think you are hoaxing anything). So, it really surprise me
>that such an intelligent person would be unable to make a
>"reality check" at the restroom: stop and look clearly for her
>reflection in any mirror, touch anybody, etc. If what Hopkins
>wrote about your incident is precise, it really shows that you
>were far more agitated and confused that you really acknowledge.

I am a serious person (and am always trying to improve my
intelligence). Coming from the perspective of a non-abductee and
a non-abduction researcher, I can understand why you would want
a "reality check" in the bathroom.

First, I am not the kind of person who would go up and touch a
complete stranger in a bathroom.

I am not sure about seeing myself in the mirror because checking
my appearance was the last thing on my mind at that time.

And you are right, I may have been more agitated than I want to
admit, but if you could understand what it is like to have your
reality altered, it can be very unnerving - and in a public
place like an airport or an airport bathroom, it can be more
unsettling. I am not the kind of person who likes to draw
attention to myself.

Remember, I felt something was different or that perhaps this
event really started on the plane. My interest in the elderly
lady sitting in front of me is when I really think this all
started.

For anyone who has been abducted and has conscious recall
a lot of the time, they can tell you that there is a "presence" or
a "feeling" beforehand that is sometimes felt. Sometimes one's
focus is centered on something else just prior to "them" coming.
I think that is what was occurring on the plane just as were landing.

I think you also questioned the time it took me to get to the
baggage claim area. This was perhaps the strangest part of all.

Everything I saw on my way to the baggage claim area was a
yellowish tan color. I don't really recall an escalator, but I
assumed there must have been one since I saw two levels.

This in itself is strange to me. How did I get downstairs to the
baggage claim? I don't know.

You also mentioned the number of other passengers or people
around.

From the plane to the bathroom and inside the bathroom there
were the usual number of people one would expect after exiting a
plane and going into the bathroom.

There was the phone call and I didn't look around then - I faced
the phone.

After that, it is rather vague. There is the feeling of seeing
two levels, assuming there was an escalator, and then being very
near the baggage claim area. And, there was hardly anyone around
because everyone else had already gotten their baggage and had
left.

I was frustrated and embarrassed at being so late and making my
host wait for me so long, so out of frustration I told her the
plane was late, etc.

As Budd said in the book, he tried to talk me into going under
hypnosis for this event and for the book, but I declined. I have
not undergone hypnosis since 1988. It's just a personal
decision.

Perhaps we would have had more information about the event, but
then, another "can of worms" would have been opened - we'd be
having a discussion about the pros and cons and 'this and that'
about the validity of hypnosis.

What you have are my conscious memories. I do not have a brain
disorder - I have had two MRIs and two CAT scans of my brain. I
don't have any psychoses - so, as I titled my journal entry
relating to this event:

"Who can help me find my missing time?"

And, please know, I did not misread my watch.

I hope people will still be interested in this book - you still
haven't heard my host's side of the story, and there are plenty
of other good cases written about in "Sight Unseen."


Katharina Wilson









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               Re: Sight Unseen:" Distortions And Innuendos -

From: Katharina Wilson <K_Wilson.nul>
Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 15:18:35 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 09:00:39 -0500
Subject: Re: Sight Unseen:" Distortions And Innuendos -


>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 23:31:07 -0500
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Subject: Re: "Sight Unseen:" Distortions And Innuendos -

>>From: Katharina Wilson <K_Wilson.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 15:43:10 -0500
>>Subject: "Sight Unseen:" Distortions and Innuendos

>>I am truly disappointed in the way my case and Hopkins' and
>>Rainey's one or two possible explanations relating to it has
>>been distorted and misquoted by some on this List.

>>I gave Budd Hopkins and Carol Rainey permission to publish my
>>case in their book. With all due respect to Errol, I did not
>>give Luis R. Gonzalez permission to re-write, summarize and ad
>>innuendo to it, to be published on UFO UpPates or any other
>>List.

<snip>

>Hello Katharina,

>With all due respect to you, Luis R. Gonzalez did not need
>permission to comment in the way that he did, on your
>fascinating case as discussed in Hopkin's and Rainey's book.
>Copyright law provides no such protection and its intention is
>not to protect an author or an author's subject from
>controversy. Anyone can discuss a controversial subject without
>breaking copyright law. It is well to expect and accept some
>controversy. If not, I suggest you brace yourself, for the time
>could come, with all the heartless CSICOP 'pelicans' out there,
>that you may come to think of Gonzalez's discussion as
>comparatively kind and restrained.

>Every Good Wish,

>Ray Stanford

Hi Ray:

It wasn't the intention or the way it was written so much as it
was the quantity that was quoted and rewritten.

As far as the innuendo he specifically mentioned, I explained
that to him in my post prior to this one.

Thanks for your input - I have met and have actually been
photographed by the "elder one", Phil Klass. Survived that okay,
so I guess I'm over it. However, he never sent me copy. <smiles>


Katharina Wilson








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   Feb > Feb 7

                    Houston, British Columbia - 12-08-03

From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO <hbccufo.nul>
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 13:14:40 -0800
Fwd Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 09:02:24 -0500
Subject: Houston, British Columbia - 12-08-03


Hi List

Since I am at it, I figured I would fire this report along as
well. I am sorry if I had posted this before, but I don't
believe it made it through. Now the folks are extremely
credible, business owners here in town. Not ones to make up a
story. Of course who knows for certain. Anyway, another
interesting one from Houston, B.C.

I was about to look around the area since sparks were noted
coming from the object, but it didn't help with a new batch of
snow on the ground.

Take care
Brian

-----

Houston, British Columbia

Date:  December 8, 2003
Time:  approx: 8:45 p.m.

I was stopped today in the mall and pulled off to the side. A
lady who I know very well wanted to tell me about something she
and her husband and two children witnessed on December 8, 2003
at approx: 8:45 p.m.

Her husband had just picked her up from a friends house and they
arrived back home shortly after. They pulled into their long
driveway only to see the two kids standing outside yelling and
pointed towards the mountain behind their home. The husband
stopped the car quickly and both parents jumped out in fear as
they had no idea what was wrong, thinking the worst. They almost
immediately noticed a white oval shaped object sitting
stationary over the back of their property.

The oval shaped object had a solid ring of blue lights which
seemed to be moving around the white colored object. A slight
and annoying hum could be heard coming from it. The Mother went
over and grabbed the two children and went into the house with
them, Dad followed close behind. They thought it would be safer
than standing outside as they had no idea what is was they were
looking at. Once inside the home, they proceeded to a back
bedroom, closed the door behind them as not to allow any light
from inside the home to give away where they were. (feeling
frightened at this time)

But still curiosity was getting the best of them. So they
watched the object, still sitting in the exact spot from when
they first noted it. The family told me the trees which were
below it were all lit up in a white light, and for a good
distance around the area. After a total of approx: 4 minutes of
watching this unusual craft, it slowly started to move. As it
did so the witnesses claimed they could see sparks dropping off
the bottom side of it. The sparks were reported to be a white in
color. They told me that there was no quick moment to the
object, it just rose up rather slowly and as it reached the top
of the mountain this is where they lost sight of it. The craft
did not blink out, they thought it just crossed over the top and
maybe moved down the other side. They reported that whatever it
was, huge.

The husband told me it was not a helicopter, no way !! He said
we were very close to this thing, and what noise it gave off was
minimal, except for this consent humming sound. The husband also
said area residents would have been blind not to see this as it
was so bright and large in size.

HBCC UFO Note: After I talked with the witness in the mall I
made arrangements and did go to visit the whole family earlier
today. I sat with all of them for a long period of time and I
can say this for certain. I believe they saw something really
strange as everyone was still very excited over what they saw
that evening. I also will be going back tomorrow to look around
the area where this object was reported to be hovering.


Brian Vike, Director

HBCC UFO Research
Canadian Toll Free UFO Hotline 1 866 262 1989 - Free call.
Home - Phone/Fax 1 250 845 2189
email: hbccufo.nul
Website: http://www.hbccufo.com








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                       Re: The Beveridge UFO - Ledger

From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 23:29:45 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 09:20:54 -0500
Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO - Ledger


>From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 08:13:39 -0600
>Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO

>>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 18:36:22 -0800
>>Subject: The Beveridge UFO

>>Oh and by the way - the thingy in the picture was a bug flying
>>by in close proximity to the camera!

>Okay, but what kind of bug?


Yeah? Who decided it was a bug?


Don Ledger









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             Pa. D.A. Nixes Prospect For Grand Jury Re Kecksburg

From: Larry W. Bryant <overtci.nul>
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 00:49:02 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 09:23:49 -0500
Subject: Pa. D.A. Nixes Prospect For Grand Jury Re Kecksburg


In his letter to me of Feb. 2, 2004 (as quoted below),
Westmoreland County, Pa., district attorney John W. Peck
cheerfully (and unabashedly) displays his lack of knowledge
(and/or concern) about the rich, venerable, and productive
history of grand-jury impanelment in cases where the targeted
incident lies below the level of an indictable offense. I wonder
if he'd change his tune were a current/former Pennsylvania state
policeman to come forward and blow the whistle on his superiors'
role in aiding/abetting the feds' Kecksburg Incident
activities/subsequent coverup. Alas, Mr. Peck's (predictable)
cop-out adds merely another document to the public's
UFO- esearch file folder labeled "Missed Opportunities."

---

TEXT OF MR. PECK'S LETTER TO LWB:

Dear Mr. Bryant:

This will acknowledge receipt of your letter dated January 19,
2004 [*], in which you have requested a special state grand jury
regarding the alleged observation of unidentified flying
object(s) near Kecksburg, Pennsylvania on December 9, 1965.

This Office does not have a standing grand jury. In order to
initiate a grand jury, it is necessary to apply to the court for
an order directing that a grand jury be summoned and, more
importantly, alleging that criminal activity exists which
requires an investigating grand jury. Of course, there is
significant expense and a great deal of time consumed in
presenting a case to a grand jury.

In considering whether to convene a grand jury regarding the
events that occurred near Kecksburg in 1965, two things come to
mind. First, from what little I know of the alleged events I am
not aware there was a crime committed by individuals that would
be a violation of the laws of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania.
A grand jury is limited to an inquiry into violations of state
crime [sic]. Additionally, if a crime was committed, the statute
of limitations has most likely expired regarding any offenses
thereby preventing any prosecution.

If the alleged events at Kecksburg are worthy of investigation,
it would be a matter for the resources of federal authorities
who, I understand, were involved in the initial matter.

I am sorry I cannot be of any more assistance to you in this
matter.

Very truly yours,

John W. Peck

---

* TEXT OF LWB's LETTER OF JAN. 19, 2004, TO MR. PECK:

TO: John Peck, Esq.; District Attorney of Westmoreland County,
Penn. - 2 North Main Street - Suite 206; Greensburg, PA 15601

FROM: Larry W. Bryant

DATE: January 19, 2004

As pointed out in a brand-new electronic petition now being
circulated via the Internet (see:

http://www.PetitionPetition.com/cgi/petition.cgi?id=6516

the time has come for immediate impanelment of a special state
grand jury in Westmoreland County, Pa., to determine exactly
what happened (and why) during and after the official government
authorities' retrieval of a crash-landed unidentified flying
object near Kecksburg, Pa., on the night of Dec. 9, 1965.

Accordingly, on behalf of the petition's signatories, I hereby
request that you proceed promptly with all the authority and
commitment of your office, to have the applicable court of law
impanel the sought-for grand jury. Please note that, as you take
this long-overdue action toward investigating, discovering, and
reporting the whole truth about (and consequences of) the
Kecksburg Incident, I readily can provide you with photo-copies
of declarations from several key Kecksburg witnesses (along with
other pertinent material gleaned from recent freedom-of-
information-driven research at the federal level). Some of this
material reveals a pattern of abuse of authority on the part of
certain members of the retrieval team - including their
commandeering of private property, their intimidation of local
witness, and their deceptive practices. What's more, the federal
government's stonewalling response to recent FOIA inquiries
about the Kecksburg Incident serves to ripen the case for
immediate impanelment of the grand jury in its investigatory-
 and-reporting function.

To be sure: for whatever reasons, not all researchers into the
Kecksburg Incident (especially some of those having a
commercially vested interest in its current status and/or
outcome) happen to share/approve/support my seeking the
impanelment. This (expected) subcultural discord, however,
should be of no consequence in your fulfillment of my request;
indeed, its very presence offers the grand jury just another
reason for seizing this opportunity to help the public dispel
the aura of mystery, anxiety, and negativity that has beset the
Kecksburg Incident for nearly 40 years.

Please let me know, soon, how I (and others) may assist you in
gathering and presenting all available evidence for the grand
jury's work.

By snail-mail, I'm sending to you a signed printout of this e-
formatted letter.


LARRY W. BRYANT

Copy furnished to: Lewis Kannon

"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things
that matter." - Martin Luther King, Jr.









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               Re: Tracing The Flow Of The Gulf Breeze Money -

From: Kenny Young <ufo.nul>
Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 02:05:56 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 09:30:18 -0500
Subject: Re: Tracing The Flow Of The Gulf Breeze Money -


Robert, List;

I called Jerry about the questions after his post to UpDates.
Jerry asked that I type some answers on his behalf. These are
his words in response to questions by Robert Gates, as I have
re-typed them and verified by Jerry over the telephone this
evening

-- Kenny

-----

>From: Robert Gates <RGates8254.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 02:14:08 EST
>Subject: Re: Tracing The Flow Of The Gulf Breeze Money

>>From: Jerry Black <gulfbreezeinfo.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 19:13:29 -0800 (PST)
>>Subject: Tracing The Flow Of The Gulf Breeze Money

<snip>

>Jerry,

>I read with interest your piece and was disappointed as it
>appears to be a bunch of allegations that don't have any
>details substantiated. I would like to ask some questions
>and get a detailed straight answer.

>What date and exactly how much did Ed Walters give money to
>MUFON/FUFOR? What was the context of the money? Donation? - Do
>you have a copy of any agreement/email/letter and or
>communication between Ed Walters and or Walt Andrus?


Jerry Black responds:

Vicky Lyons and Charles Flannigan both confirmed to Rex
Salisberry that MUFON received money from Ed Walters for the
purpose of subsidizing the investigation of the Gulf Breeze
sightings. This was later confirmed in a phone conversation
between Ed Walters and Rex Salisberry. Ed Walters said that he
had paid money to the MUFON organization to support the
investigation. He also said that he had shared part of his
proceeds of the book royalties with Mr. Maccabee.

We do not have an exact figure how much Walters gave. I do not
have copies of checks or E-mails.

The amount of money was rumored to be between ten to twenty
thousand dollars.

From page 70 of Carol and Rex Salisberry's comprehensive report
entitled "Anatomy of the Gulf Breeze - Ed Walters UFO Case," Rex
states: "We were told by Vicky Lyons, who witnessed the original
investigation, that Walters had paid for some of the
investigative costs incurred early during the investigation.
This troubled us because this appeared to be something which had
been hidden by MUFON."

>Do you have a copy of the letter Walters allegedly wrote to
>Hyzer and or Salisbery about the photos? Do you know for a fact
>that he (Walters) had the report in his hands, meaning that
>somebody at MUFON received the reports from Hyzer/Salisbery,
>promptly over nighted them to Walters? Timing would be critical
>here. One could almost conclude that somebody up the vine just
>pickup the phone and call Walters about something in one of the
>reports.

Ed Walters wrote a letter to photoanalyst William G. Hyzer
telling him that he did not have permission to use his Gulf
Breeze photos because they were copyrighted. This is according
to Mr. Hyzer as he told me by telephone. Hyzer was surprise and
upset because it was his understanding that the information
given in his report was to be directed only to the MUFON
director Walt Andrus and the information not to be arbitrarily
given out to Walters, the claimant.

Hyzer received the reply from Ed Walters within 48 hours of
issuing his less than favorable report. Ed Walters sent this
letter via special delivery "Air Mail" to Hyzer within 48-hours
of Hyzer delivering his report to MUFON.

Common sense would dictate that if Ed Walters responded in 48-
 hours after the Hyzer report was sent to Walt Andrus, that
Walters certainly must have been given the - conclusion of the
report almost immediately.

>Do you have a copy of the 5000.00 Walters check or a specific
>admission from Bob Oechsler for the alleged work he did on the
>Walters photo(s)?

Yes we do. I have an admission from Oechsler during a 3-hour
telephone conversation that I had with him. He acknowledged
receiving $5,000 from Walters. Maccabee has also noted this in
his responses to my earlier investigative expose. Bob Oechsler
has admitted receiving $5,000 from Ed Walters for doing work
with the original Polaroid pictures of alleged UFOs.

Whatever work was done by Oechsler for the $5,000 was not useful
or beneficial in analyzing the validating of the Gulf Breeze
pictures.

I apologize to the UFO Update List that I am not always able to
quickly respond 'on list' to questions, but again, please call
me at my telephone number, toll free, at 1-877-731-8400.


 - Jerry Black








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               Re: Tracing The Flow Of The Gulf Breeze Money -

From: Kenny Young <ufo.nul>
Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 02:53:39 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 09:34:06 -0500
Subject: Re: Tracing The Flow Of The Gulf Breeze Money -


>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 14:27:40 +0000
>Subject: Re: Tracing The Flow Of The Gulf Breeze Money

>If Ed Walters had given money to the Fund (especially in the
>large sums alleged) for investigation of his photos, I certainly
>would have known about it. This allegation is flatly untrue. The
>Fund's financial transactions all are a matter of public record.

>I am skeptical of Ed Walters and his photos, but not of Bruce
>Maccabee whom I have know for 40 years since he was a young
>graduate student volunteering time for NICAP. His integrity is
>unquestioned. People can disagree about interpretations honestly
>and honorably without having to impute dishonesty.


> - Dick Hall

UFO UpDates List folk:

Jerry Black has a response to the comments by Richard Hall.
These are his words as I have transcribed by telephone this
evening -- Kenny

------

Mr. Hall;

I appreciate your comments and your remarks are so noted. I have
the utmost respect for you and your work in the UFO field.

In my earlier response, I said the money Ed Walters gave to
MUFON to support his Gulf Breeze investigation went from
"either/or" MUFON/FUFOR to Bruce Maccabee. In my statement, I
said "either/or." However, I take your word that The Fund for
UFO Research is not involved and did not receive money from Ed
Walters. The evidence is very clear that Bruce Maccabee received
the money directly from MUFON given to them by Ed Walters.

I can understand you having respect for a friend that you have
known for 40 years. However, the evidence is very clear. Mr.
Bruce Maccabee may have not have been totally honest when he
said that he did not know that Ed Walters had given money to
MUFON for the sole purpose of investigating the Gulf Breeze
case.

If Vicky Lyons and Charles Flannagan both had this information,
it would be illogical to think Mr. Maccabee would not have known
this. The telephone call between Rex Salisberry and Ed Walters
affirms that the payment was made and certainly Maccabee should
have known.

Mr. Hall, by your own admission, you state you have problems
with the Gulf Breeze case, yet not the integrity of its primary
investigator. As hard as it may be sometimes, we must not let
good friendships stand in the way of being critical of poor,
one-sided investigations.  -- J.B.

-----

Jerry Black states: "I apologize to the UFO Update List that I
am not always able to quickly respond 'on list' to questions,
but again, please call me at my telephone number, toll free, at
1-877-731-8400.


- Jerry Black








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   Feb > Feb 7

                                UFO On Mars?

From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg.nul>
Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 04:57:19 -0600
Fwd Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 09:36:25 -0500
Subject: UFO On Mars?



What the _hell_ is this, then?

From, and with no apologies, the Coast to Coast website...
mainstream media is _totally_ responsible for driving me into
the arms of fringe radio. I'm sure Mr. Rimmer (of Magonia), he
of the horrific hologram, would understand that, for all his
protestations to the very contrived contrary.

http://www.coasttocoastam.com/timages/page/sol33_2.jpg


Lehmberg.nul

EXPLORE "AlienViewGroup" at its HostPros URL.
http://www.alienview.net


JOHN FORD RESTORATION FUND -- John will be released eventually.
He'll need a tax free cash stake to get on his feet. Let's put
one together for him; the bigger it is -- the more attention
he gets. It could have been you. E-mail for detail.
$450.00 pledged -- $200.00 collected!

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite.
What others see from afar, I leave far behind me."
- Giordano Bruno, scourged by the scabrously specious scurrilous.









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                        Re: State Of Ufology - Kaeser

From: Steven Kaeser <steve.nul>
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 08:28:03 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 09:43:31 -0500
Subject: Re: State Of Ufology - Kaeser


>From: Ray Dickenson <editor.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 18:00:09 +0000
>Subject: Re: State Of Ufology

>>From: Kenny Young <ufo.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 03:14:46 -0500
>>Subject: Re: State Of Ufology

>>If academia had not abandoned the UFO subject, the
>>snake-oil salesmen would not have stepped in to fill
>>the vacuum

>Question is - why did academia abandon the subject? Remember the
>fate of the COMETA publication? (search for "cometa ihedn")

>http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/1999/jul/m22-015.shtml

>A high-level, technical and academic appraisal, it was
>immediately attacked and persistently anti-propagandized at
>great (gov't?) expense until most folk are now afraid to even
>reference it.

Please provide any reference you may have to a government effort
to "attack" the COMETA report. I'm unaware of any reaction at
all the publication, which was a commercial publication and not
an "official" report, per se.

>Why were certain agencies afraid of the COMETA appraisal? I
>suggest two basic reasons - in the text:

>1) "the physical reality of UFOs, under control of
>intelligent beings, is "quasi-certain." Only one hypothesis
>takes into account the available data: the hypothesis of
>extraterrestrial visitors."

Certainly this is a non-committal statement which translates to
'the anecdotal evidence appears to support ETI, but we really
don't have the proof'. Is this glass half full or half empty?

>2) "the possibility of secret, privileged contacts which
>might be "attributed to the United States." The attitude of the
>U.S. is seen as "most strange" since the 1947 wave"

This is certainly true, but there were hundreds of other factors
at work here, from nuclear proliferation to the "Cold War".

<snip>

>Let's examine the (gov't sponsered) debunkers' only real
>premise: "Everything presently unknown (what you can't measure
>NOW) doesn't exist - by decree!"

>Yes - it's the same premise used for imprisoning & burning
>Giordano Bruno and for silencing Galileo.

>Modern mind-control? Or secret take-over?

>cheers

Again, please provide linkage between any Government and
"debunkers". I'd love to get into a discussion with Government
entities if such evidence could be found.

Let me explain that while I'm speaking on my own behalf, I'm a
volunteer with the Fund for UFO Research. The Fund sponsored the
translation of the COMETA report into English, which was then
approved by the COMETA group as accurate. A thousand copies were
made and distributed to Government leaders, assorted Press
contacts, a handful of UFO researchers, and key business
leaders. Our hope was that this would cause them to take pause
and react in some way. Our hopes were, unfortunately, in vain.

I think the bottom line was that the COMETA report was another
statement of opinion, which (in this case) came from well
respected former government officials. It is similar in scope to
"The UFO Evidence" which was produced by the UFO Coalition and
sent to a similar group of individuals. Neither provided the
"smoking gun" that would be needed to spark a public
investigation. IMO, the highly politically charged atmosphere in
the U.S. would prevent any real interest in this subject unless
there is a major shift in the public's demand for a right to
know. That probably won't happen unless there's a major event
that the public and press can't ignore. Economics and the War
against terrorism (another topic for another list) are at the
forefront right now, and provide a more immediate threat to most
individuals.


Steve








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               Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Hatch

From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 06:12:10 -0800
Fwd Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 09:45:01 -0500
Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Hatch



>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 13:49:08 -0500
>Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph

<snip>

>>Getting some kind of read on size, distance and speed is
>>paramount to our ability to determine if it is a 'bird' or a
>>'fly' that was captured in mid-flight.

>Knowing the distance is very important, obviously. Unfortunately
>even if we knew exact distances to all the known objects in the
>photo that wouldn't help us determine the distance to the UO
>(unknown object). If we knew, a priori, some information about
>the object (such as its size!) we could determine the distance.
>In a rare case (McMinnville photos) the photographic information
>was sufficient to provide a distance estimate based on
>atmospheric attenuation and scatering of light. Unfortunately
>the image conditions that pertained to the (first) McMinnville
>photo do not occur here. HAD THERE BEEN VISUAL WITNESSES.... we
>might be in a better position to estimate distance. If, for
>example someone had said "it went behind the telephone pole"...
>well, then we would know it wasn't a bug. And so on.

>*Amy: You keep saying that 'some people have identified the
>object as a flying saucer' which isn't true.

<snip>

Hello Bruce, John, Diane and all:

I'm still trying to fix the position of the Sun, believe it or
not, with respect to the objects in the famous photo.

Diane has it on good authority that the cameraman was facing
West. Now, I don't expect that to be _exactly_ west, within a
few degrees of due west.

Dan Bright (zaziork.com) and I finally agreed on approximate Sun
angle of 288 degrees azimuth (18 degrees North of due West) and
an altitude of about 55 degrees above the horizon.

Please see Dan's images here, they look pretty good:

http://zaziork.com/astrobservation/images/DCP_4401_enl_res60.jpg

Ignoring the 'UFO' for a moment, please look for clues to the
position of the Sun on the objects in the field of vision.

1) IF we are looking West here, then the Sun must be above the
field of vision, or else it would show, possibly 'blinding' the
camera so nothing else shows!

2) From the silvery box-on-a-box at far left, the one with the
top almost flush with the horizon (ridge), reflections and
shadows are consistent with the Sun angles and the "cameraman
facing generally West."

3) Notice that the front faces of the railway crossing X-signs
are dark, indicating the Sun was behind them

4) The lit red lights indicate a train just passed or is just
about to pass.

5) Other reflections from rounded surfaces, the top of the RR
crossing sign at left, the lower RH insulator on the tall power
transmission crossbar on the power pole .. agree with the Sun
being above the field of view, and somewhat to the right of
center for this photo.

Bruce: do you agree? If so, what does that tell us about the
'ufo'? My original impression, assuming the shape of a classic
flying saucer, was that the Sun was somewhat behind the
photographer.

Now it seems to be in front of him, and off to the right, and
high enough (55 degrees elevation) to stay out of the photo. IF
the Sun were behind the photographer, we should be able to see
the fronts of the RR crossing X-signs etc.

Given that, the classic saucer image I had pictured starts to
weaken. Somehow I cannot see a 'bird' in all this, but some sort
of flying insect becomes all the more plausible.

If that has any merit, what I thought were reflections from a
rounded saucer surface might indeed be the semi-transparent
wings of an insect.

The only problem with that, is the wings seem much to far to one
end of the body, in this case to the right. Most insects I know,
respectable ones at least, keep their wings pretty much in the
middle to balance their bodily center of mass.

Unless something better comes in, I'm gonna have to derate this
case as a probable mis-identification of a natural object. If
that's right, I lean toward a bug rather than a bird. A bug is
much less likely to go unnoticed for one thing.

Diane: I would love to visit any Victorian pub which you may
recommend. Given the time and money, I'd go visit Australia at
the drop of a hat.


Best wishes

- Larry Hatch









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                         Re: State Of Ufology - Hall

From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 14:28:14 +0000
Fwd Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 09:49:12 -0500
Subject: Re: State Of Ufology - Hall


>From: Ray Dickenson <editor.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 18:00:09 +0000
>Subject: Re: State Of Ufology

>>From: Kenny Young <ufo.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 03:14:46 -0500
>>Subject: Re: State Of Ufology

>>If academia had not abandoned the UFO subject, the
>>snake-oil salesmen would not have stepped in to fill
>>the vacuum


Ray,

This is a chicken or egg question. But one thing we know for
certain is that the snake-oil salesmen have stepped in to fill
the vacuum.

>Question is - why did academia abandon the subject? Remember the
>fate of the COMETA publication? (search for "cometa ihedn")

I have given very simple and straightforward answers to this
question, which you may choose not to accept, but I could also
strongly support my case based on substantial documenattion adn
long experience. "Academia" is not monolithic, and many members
do take UFOs seriously and work at it quietly.

>http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/1999/jul/m22-015.shtml

>A high-level, technical and academic appraisal, it was
>immediately attacked and persistently anti-propagandized at
>great (gov't?) expense until most folk are now afraid to even
>reference it.

I strongly challenge this allegation. What government or other
great expense? Do you have any documenattion for this claim?
Show us the money trail. Please cite some examples where
"Academia" attacked and/or anti-propagandized the COMETA report.

>Why were certain agencies afraid of the COMETA appraisal?

What agencies? Who was "afraid" of the report? Please be specific.

>I suggest two basic reasons - in the text:

>1) "the physical reality of UFOs, under control of
>intelligent beings, is "quasi-certain." Only one hypothesis
>takes into account the available data: the hypothesis of
>extraterrestrial visitors."

>2) "the possibility of secret, privileged contacts which
>might be "attributed to the United States." The attitude of the
>U.S. is seen as "most strange" since the 1947 wave"

>And that "strange attitude" has since been imposed on other,
>previously more open-minded regions, as Listers' memory will
>show.

>Latin-America, Europe and much of the world _not_ under
>totalitarian rule was once more open-minded (excluding UK, the
>most secretive, and arguably most corrupt bureaucracy in
>Europe). All open-mindedness has now gone - secrecy and ridicule
>is a given. Where is that pressure coming from?

You talk as if you have some sort of privileged view from atop
the world, and see things that thew rest of us are incapable of
seeing. How can you make such sweeping statements? Have you
actually done some kind of survey, or gathered documentation to
support your view? Or is this simply another example of exactly
what I was talking about in my original post?

>Let's examine the (gov't sponsered) debunkers' only real
>premise: "Everything presently unknown (what you can't measure
>NOW) doesn't exist - by decree!"

Have you and evidence or documentation that the debunkers are
"government-sponsored?" I don't disagree that they are wrong and
their logic absurd.

>Yes - it's the same premise used for imprisoning & burning
>Giordano Bruno and for silencing Galileo.

>Modern mind-control? Or secret take-over?

Or, as Bruce Maccabee has put it, "self-censorship?" Or as Pogo
said, "We have met the enemy and he is us."


- Dick








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                             UFOs Call Town Home

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 09:56:37 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 09:56:37 -0500
Subject: UFOs Call Town Home





Source: hte Herald Sun - Melbourne, Australia

http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5478,8612037%5E2862,00.html

08feb04

UFOs Call Town Home
by Ian Haberfield

The tiny town of Beveridge, north of Melbourne, is fast earning
a reputation as Australia's UFO hot spot.

Since Whittlesea Council released a photograph purportedly
showing a UFO, other locals have come forward claiming to have
seen flying objects.

Kilmore resident Peter Christie said he was taking his daughter,
Elise, to a friend's house about 10pm on Saturday, January 10,
when he noticed something flying in the west.

"I saw this round thing in the sky with lights coming out of
it," she said. "It was sort of moving. It wasn't going very fast
or anything.

"It had big, round lights coming out of it, it was too wide to
be a plane... and it was nothing like a helicopter."

She said there were several lights beaming outwards from the
side of the object, parallel to the ground.

"We both said, 'no, that's definitely not a plane'," she said,
adding that the object was in view for several minutes.

"We were going over a hill and there was one stage when we
couldn't see anything. Then it appeared again. I wasn't scared.
I was a bit shocked."

Mr Christie, who was driving, managed a few short glances at the
object but agreed it was definitely not a plane.

"We didn't know what it was... and then we heard the news the
other day," he said.

Elise said several people had greeted her comments about the
sighting with scepticism. So she stopped talking of it until
Whittlesea Council's photograph, with a disc-shaped object in
the sky, was widely publicised late last month.

The release of Whittlesea Council's UFO photo sparked much
interest and the council's website recorded more than 37,000
hits over three days.

Council traffic engineer Roland Rozario, who took the photo, was
interviewed reporters from across the globe and websites
reprinted his photograph.








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                        Re: The Beveridge UFO - Hall

From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 14:34:14 +0000
Fwd Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 09:58:52 -0500
Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO - Hall


>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
>To:  ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 23:29:45 -0400
>Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO

>>From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 08:13:39 -0600
>>Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO

>>>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 18:36:22 -0800
>>>Subject: The Beveridge UFO

>>>Oh and by the way - the thingy in the picture was a bug flying
>>>by in close proximity to the camera!

>>Okay, but what kind of bug?

>Yeah? Who decided it was a bug?


This thread is beginning to bug me.

But seriously folks, has anyone addressed the possibility (all
alternatives need to be considered and confirmed or ruled out)
that the image is the result of a developmental flaw? If so, I
missed that. But then, I haven't followed every single comment
having seen hundreds of such photos come and go over the years.

Very often when the photographer sees nothing, it is because
there was nothing there to see. This may be different for
digital cameras, but someone should at least address the issue
if they haven't already.


 - Dick







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                   Re: Review Of Sight Unseen - McGonagle

From: Joe McGonagle <joe.mcgonagle.nul>
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 14:59:46 -0000
Fwd Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 13:43:54 -0500
Subject: Re: Review Of Sight Unseen - McGonagle


>From: Nick Pope <nick.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 00:56:58 -0000
>Subject: Re: Review Of Sight Unseen

<snip>

>I acknowledge that this is frustrating for other researchers. A
>similar debate rages over symbols reported by some abductees.
>Budd has a large database of such symbols and is often urged to
>publish the data. But he deliberately withholds this information
>so that he can use it as a way of cross-checking witness
>testimony. It would clearly be very interesting if different
>abductees reported having seen the same symbols, provided Budd
>could be sure that there had been no collusion. The moment the
>data are in the public domain, this technique would be invalid.

I am aware that you are currently taking a particular interest
in the abduction phenomenon, Nick. Has Budd shared any of his
symbol database with you, and are you paying specific attention
to symbols and/or languages involved in abduction reports in the
course of your current research?

This is one avenue of abduction research which may produce
measurable results, IMHO.


Regards,

Joe








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               Re: "Sight Unseen:" Distortions and Innuendos -

From: Luis R. Gonzalez <lrgm.nul>
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 16:20:08 +0100
Fwd Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 14:56:35 -0500
Subject: Re: "Sight Unseen:" Distortions and Innuendos -


>From: Katharina Wilson Wilson <K_Wilson.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 14:57:06 -0500
>Subject: "Sight Unseen:" Distortions and Innuendos

>>From: Luis R. Gonzalez <lrgm.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 10:10:45 +0100
>>Subject: Re: "Sight Unseen:" Distortions and Innuendos

First at all, I am happy we have clarified your misunderstanding
and that you have decided to continue our exchange in a calm,
and rational manner.

Please, remember that I was questioning not the alleged facts,
but Hopkins & Rainey's interpretation of them as invisibility and
teleportation. Curiously, you did not mention the 12-letters word.

You are sure of your memories, but being sure does not improve
one iota their exactitude, I can even argue that it worsen it.

>You also seemed to make an issue of my telephoning my
>husband from the airport as opposed to my hotel room as I
>normally do.

>I don't know what to make of that. (?) So, I called him from the
>airport instead. I think I told him I would call as soon as I
>got to the airport - Just in case anyone wants to know, I also
>telephoned him when I got to my room.

>It may have been my feelings of being panicked, perhaps I just
>wanted to hear his voice? But, in my opinion, it does not have
>any particular bearing on the facts of the case except for the
>amount of time I was on the phone, which was not long at all,
>about two or three minutes.

So, you don't see it. Surely my fault, I probably did not
explain myself properly. Let me try again.

Hopkins wrote (quoting you):

"We arrived at O'Hare a few minutes early, because I remember
looking at my watch and seeing that it was 2:10 Portland time"

<snip>

"After I left the rest room I saw some pay phones and remembered
that I promised to call my husband after the plane landed.
Usually, I don't call him till I get to my hotel room, but this
time I called him right away. I was extremely agitated, and the
first thing he said was: "I see your plane was late getting to
Chicago". I looked at my watch and it read about 3:20 Portland
time".

My experience as an occasional air traveller is that getting out
of the plane, collecting the luggage, taking the transportation
to the nearby city, collecting the keys at the hotel, and
reaching the room, usually take much more than 1 hour. So, if
you usually call your husband from the hotel, when he received
your call, he has not any reasonable reason to suppose your
plane was late. To him, you were calling from the hotel, and the
delay was completely reasonable.

Do you see the incongruency?

This part of the incident cannot had happened exactly as you
recall, and if you are wrong here, you can be wrong in other
things (or not).

Of course, the explanation could be as simple as he asking an
hypothetical question ("Did the plane arrive late?") and you
interpreting it as an affirmation. But even in this favourable
case, your recall is not precise. And I defend it does have a
bearing in the case.

So, if you admit that your conversation took a couple of
minutes, and you insist that your clock did show the same time
(3:20) at the luggage reclaim area, I would bid for a simpler EM
effect (clock stoppage), because teleportation would not be
enough, it should had been time travel!

><snip>

>>I do not know what happened to you. But I cannot avoid my
>>surprise. As I said at the beginning, I really considered you a
>>serious and intelligent person (and before you say so, I do
>>_not_ think you are hoaxing anything). So, it really surprise me
>>that such an intelligent person would be unable to make a
>>"reality check" at the restroom: stop and look clearly for her
>>reflection in any mirror, touch anybody, etc. If what Hopkins
>>wrote about your incident is precise, it really shows that you
>>were far more agitated and confused that you really acknowledge.

>I am a serious person (and am always trying to improve my
>intelligence). Coming from the perspective of a non-abductee and
>a non-abduction researcher, I can understand why you would want
>a "reality check" in the bathroom.

I consider myself an abduction researcher, even if I have never
been able to talk at length with any alleged abductee. In any
case, it is not I who should want a "reality check", you
yourself should be looking for it.

>First, I am not the kind of person who would go up and touch a
>complete stranger in a bathroom.

>I am not sure about seeing myself in the mirror because checking
>my appearance was the last thing on my mind at that time.

Please, we are not talking about checking your appearance or
doing strange things in a bathroom, we are talking about a
person who after having dozen of alleged aliens encounters in
all kind of circunstances (even MILABS, if I do not recall
wrongly), finding herself panicking because the automatic
faucets are not registering her, is unable to control herself
the few seconds needed to look at a mirror and confirm (or not)
if she is really invisible! If after suffering so many strange
incidents in my life, I would find myself in a similar
situation, I will not hesitate to touch somebody in the shoulder
and politely ask her anything, or even bump premeditately
against some person, offering later whatever excuses I may need.
Or many other "reality checks" anybody can think in the spur of
the moment. The only reason I cam imagine not to do so is being
so much agitated and unnerved not to trust anything I recalled
later.

>For anyone who has been abducted and has conscious recall
>a lot of the time, they can tell you that there is a "presence" or
>a "feeling" beforehand that is sometimes felt. Sometimes one's
>focus is centered on something else just prior to "them" coming.
>I think that is what was occurring on the plane just as were landing.

Yes, I have read about it. Specially significant to me, was Leah
Haley's alarm system, whose only function seemed to be to prime
her about any inminent abduction, almost like the whistle made
with Pavlov's dogs.

>As Budd said in the book, he tried to talk me into going under
>hypnosis for this event and for the book, but I declined. I have
>not undergone hypnosis since 1988. It's just a personal
>decision.

I completely back you in such decision.

>I hope people will still be interested in this book - you still
>haven't heard my host's side of the story, and there are plenty
>of other good cases written about in "Sight Unseen."

Now that you mention it, I also find something not normal in
your host actions. Allegedly, they were so concerned that they
checked with United Airlines, but did not even try to call you
through the loudspeakers. Besides, in a so busy airport, I do
not think a luggage carrousel could be get unused for an hour,
your red suitcase going around for a full 60 minutes. I am sure
a better estimation of your missing time would be less than 30
minutes.

In the end, what I am really questioning is Hopkins' attitude to
consider anything strange in the life of an abductee as
originated with the aliens.


Luis R. Gonzalez Manso








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               Re: Tracing The Flow Of The Gulf Breeze Money -

From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 15:25:18 +0000
Fwd Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 14:58:29 -0500
Subject: Re: Tracing The Flow Of The Gulf Breeze Money -


>From: Kenny Young <ufo.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 02:53:39 -0500
>Subject: Re: Tracing The Flow Of The Gulf Breeze Money

>>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 14:27:40 +0000
>>Subject: Re: Tracing The Flow Of The Gulf Breeze Money

>>If Ed Walters had given money to the Fund (especially in the
>>large sums alleged) for investigation of his photos, I certainly
>>would have known about it. This allegation is flatly untrue. The
>>Fund's financial transactions all are a matter of public record.

>>I am skeptical of Ed Walters and his photos, but not of Bruce
>>Maccabee whom I have know for 40 years since he was a young
>>graduate student volunteering time for NICAP. His integrity is
>>unquestioned. People can disagree about interpretations honestly
>>and honorably without having to impute dishonesty.

>>- Dick Hall

>UFO UpDates List folk:

>Jerry Black has a response to the comments by Richard Hall.
>These are his words as I have transcribed by telephone this
>evening -- Kenny

>Mr. Hall;

>I appreciate your comments and your remarks are so noted. I have
>the utmost respect for you and your work in the UFO field.

>In my earlier response, I said the money Ed Walters gave to
>MUFON to support his Gulf Breeze investigation went from
>"either/or" MUFON/FUFOR to Bruce Maccabee. In my statement, I
>said "either/or." However, I take your word that The Fund for
>UFO Research is not involved and did not receive money from Ed
>Walters. The evidence is very clear that Bruce Maccabee received
>the money directly from MUFON given to them by Ed Walters.

>I can understand you having respect for a friend that you have
>known for 40 years. However, the evidence is very clear. Mr.
>Bruce Maccabee may have not have been totally honest when he
>said that he did not know that Ed Walters had given money to
>MUFON for the sole purpose of investigating the Gulf Breeze
>case.

>If Vicky Lyons and Charles Flannagan both had this information,
>it would be illogical to think Mr. Maccabee would not have known
>this. The telephone call between Rex Salisberry and Ed Walters
>affirms that the payment was made and certainly Maccabee should
>have known.

>Mr. Hall, by your own admission, you state you have problems
>with the Gulf Breeze case, yet not the integrity of its primary
>investigator. As hard as it may be sometimes, we must not let
>good friendships stand in the way of being critical of poor,
>one-sided investigations.  -- J.B.

Mr. Black et al.,

I was highly critical of the investigation. Ask Walt Andrus,
Bruce Maccabee, Marge Christensen, or anyone else involved with
MUFON at that time.

There was a great deal of internal dissension among active MUFON
people, including the Saiisberrys with whom I communicated a few
times.

 - Richard Hall









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              Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Bright

From: Dan Bright <ufo.nul>
Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 15:47:00 -0000
Fwd Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 14:59:48 -0500
Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Bright


>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 15:45:46 -0500
>Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph

>I agree, provided we also consider the possibility that there
>might be a fly (or flying bug) in the photographic 'ointment'.

Again for the benefit of those without image software, I posted
some interesting enhancements (simple colour level adjustments)
that may mitigate in favour of the 'bug' hypothesis:

http://zaziork.com/astrobservation/whittlesea_image_analysis.htm

Naturally I'm very cautious about 'enhancing' images, due to the
ease by which such adjustments can provide false impressions of
the original data. So while the blow-ups linked above may
suggest a clearer definition of wings and head/abdomen/thorax
detail, I still agree with the (seeming) consensus that there is
too little data upon which to formulate a definitive conclusion.


Best to all,

Dan Bright
www.theunexplained.info








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                Re: Nigeria Quashes Air Crash Rumour - Ledger

From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 11:50:18 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 15:02:05 -0500
Subject: Re: Nigeria Quashes Air Crash Rumour - Ledger


>From: Terry W. Colvin <fortean1.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 09:52:12 -0700
>Subject: Nigeria Quashes Air Crash Rumour

>Source: BBCi
>http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/3458427.stm
>2004/02/04

>Nigeria quashes air crash rumour

>The Nigerian authorities have called off the search for a plane
>alleged to have crashed near the commercial capital, Lagos, last
>week.

>Aviation minister Malam Isa Yuguda said no evidence of a crash
>had been found.

>Mr Yuguda said investigations showed that neither Nigeria nor
>any other country had declared a plane missing.

>On Friday, several people said they had seen a commercial
>aircraft capable of carrying 25 people ditch in the sea off
>Lekki beach, to the east of Lagos.

<snip>

>The head of the Nigeria Aviation Safety Initiative told
>Reuters news agency that the crashed object had been classified
>as an Unidentified Flying Object.


Terry, the most likely reason there was no report of a missing
aircraft is that it was transporting illegal drugs. Knowlegable
witnesses to the crash have tenatively identified the aircraft
as a Beech 1900.


Best,

Don Ledger









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                        Re: State Of Ufology - Hatch

From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 07:57:43 -0800
Fwd Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 15:04:23 -0500
Subject: Re: State Of Ufology - Hatch


>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 14:28:14 +0000
>Subject: Re: State Of Ufology

>>From: Ray Dickenson <editor.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 18:00:09 +0000
>>Subject: Re: State Of Ufology

>>>From: Kenny Young <ufo.nul>
>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 03:14:46 -0500
>>>Subject: Re: State Of Ufology

>>>If academia had not abandoned the UFO subject, the
>>>snake-oil salesmen would not have stepped in to fill
>>>the vacuum

>This is a chicken or egg question. But one thing we know for
>certain is that the snake-oil salesmen have stepped in to fill
>the vacuum.

Agreed.

<snip>

>.... "Academia" is not monolithic, and many members
>do take UFOs seriously and work at it quietly.

That is what interests me here.

I suppose nobody has reliable percentages, but I somehow suspect
that the number of closet UFO-interested mainstream types,
scientists and even SETI people, is larger than one might guess
offhand.

In fields like Astronomy, where the number of talented and
qualified candidates greatly outnumber the jobs available, any
hint of interest in the 'paranormal' could spell doom.

Imagine two projects competing for federal research funds; one
headed up by a "UFO-nut", the other (equally qualified) by
somebody looking to undercut the first .. and all this in the
face of a government that is in total ufo-mess avoidance mode.

How about college professors competing for tenure, or the next
opening at a prestigious university?

I was cataloguing UFO sightings for 10 or 12 years before I
stuck my name out publicly, and I'm no high ranking academic.

Honest skeptics aside; charlatans, mystics and airheads do
everything imaginable to make this terrible situation worse.

Who, with a scientific reputation to maintain, is going to
publicly state their interest in UFOs, in a world where Bob
Lazar can waltz out of Area 51 carrying 2 kg of element 115 and
survive... where UFO cultists commit mass suicide... where
snake-oil is more costly in volume?

No. 'Le College Invisible' is what we have. Lets be glad for
that, and I don't envision big changes any time soon.

What I hope I see, are signs that some very bright people, some
one might not expect, do take these matters seriously.

I wonder if there is some way to estimate, however crudely, just
how many closet UFO people there actually are within science and
academia, in percentage terms. I don't need names, but I'd enjoy
some rough numbers.


Best wishes

- Larry Hatch


PS: Back in the 1950s when I was a kid, some well known UFO
movie/documentary played on one of the 3 TV channels we had
then. Afterward, I went outside to look at the sky.

Right next door, was the hard-headed and very successful
businessman who still lives there today! He was clearly doing
the exact same thing. Over the 50 years since then, he never
indicated the slightest interest in UFOs.








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                  Re: Houston, British Columbia - 12-08-03

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 11:04:53 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 15:06:47 -0500
Subject: Re: Houston, British Columbia - 12-08-03


>From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO <hbccufo.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 13:14:40 -0800
>Subject: Houston, British Columbia - 12-08-03

>Hi List

>Since I am at it, I figured I would fire this report along as
>well. I am sorry if I had posted this before, but I don't
>believe it made it through. Now the folks are extremely
>credible, business owners here in town. Not ones to make up a
>story. Of course who knows for certain. Anyway, another
>interesting one from Houston, B.C.

>I was about to look around the area since sparks were noted
>coming from the object, but it didn't help with a new batch of
>snow on the ground.

>Take care
>Brian

>-----

>Houston, British Columbia

>Date: December 8, 2003
>Time: approx: 8:45 p.m.

>I was stopped today in the mall and pulled off to the side. A
>lady who I know very well wanted to tell me about something she
>and her husband and two children witnessed on December 8, 2003
>at approx: 8:45 p.m.

>Her husband had just picked her up from a friends house and they
>arrived back home shortly after. They pulled into their long
>driveway only to see the two kids standing outside yelling and
>pointed towards the mountain behind their home. The husband
>stopped the car quickly and both parents jumped out in fear as
>they had no idea what was wrong, thinking the worst. They almost
>immediately noticed a white oval shaped object sitting
>stationary over the back of their property.

>The oval shaped object had a solid ring of blue lights which
>seemed to be moving around the white colored object. A slight
>and annoying hum could be heard coming from it. The Mother went
>over and grabbed the two children and went into the house with
>them, Dad followed close behind. They thought it would be safer
>than standing outside as they had no idea what is was they were
>looking at. Once inside the home, they proceeded to a back
>bedroom, closed the door behind them as not to allow any light
>from inside the home to give away where they were. (feeling
>frightened at this time)

<snip>

Thanks, Brian,

That's an interesting report, being (at least at face value) to
my mind the most important you have submitted of late, for
several reasons:

(1) The object was close enough that an unusual sound ("a slight
and annoying hum") was heard which seemingly does not resemble
that made by any known aircraft.

That said, based on careful questioning of the witnesses, could
you be more specific about the perceived nature, pitch, and
anything else the witnesses might describe about the hum. For
example, did anyone compare it to any specific and more familiar
hum such as a large electric generator, a refrigerator running,
an automobile engine running at a distance, or whatever? If you
do not have their best possible characterization of the hum,
please inquire further. Also, did all witnesses notice the hum?
If not, please separate the hearers and non-hearers by age (or
any other factor you might find potentially significant) for us.

(2) A ring of blue light was visible around the otherwise white object.

That said, some clarification seems in order because you reported:

>The oval shaped object had a solid ring of blue lights which
>seemed to be moving around the white colored object.

The clarification is needed because you said, "...a solid ring",
yet the plural "lights" was used. So, what did you mean in
calling it a solid ring of blue lights? If the ring of light
were really solid (a continuous ring), I doubt you would have
used the plural, "lights". Did you perhaps mean that there was a
continual (as contrasts with solid) series of blue lights around
the object? And, did you mean around a rim, as is often reported
of seemingly disc-shaped UFOs, or did you mean around it as a
ring around an oval or ellipsoidal object, say around it, top-
to-bottom, or how?

I ask for clarification on that because a particular
configuration of blue lights might tend to suggest
magnetohydrodynamic propulsion, diagnostic evidence of which my
project has filmed and magnetometrically recorded in operation
around some daylight UFOs. A different arrangement of blue
lights, however, might provide clues applicable to a different
interpretation.

Also, I would like it if you could question each witness about
the specific color of blue ring of light(s?) separately, so they
just do not tend to confirm a specific description by another
witness questioned beforehand. That is a human tendency and it
happens with honest witnesses in even close-range sightings, so
one must be cautions if one wants an objective description by
each witness independently. Preferably, use of a standard color
chart in getting such a description would be helpful, because a
witness who sees a series of color samples (in this case of
various hues of blue) tends to have memory triggered much more
accurately by looking at the colors and choosing the correct one
than just by trying to recall (without such visual aid) the
color and describe it. Furthermore, the specific color pointed
out on a chart is a vastly more precise description for an
analyst than is, for example, "...it was a light, middle blue".

Did the color of the ring of blue light(s?) alter in any way as
the object lifted up and then disappeared or flew over the hill
(if that's what happened)? If so, in what way?

Likewise, did the central white "oval" alter color in any way?
If so, in what way?

Finally, Brian, you reported that the ring of blue light(s?):

>...seemed to be moving around the white colored object...<

I take it that your use of the term "...seemed to be moving
around..." might mean that the ring might actually have
consisted on a sequencing ring of blue light sources, since
unless lights were sequencing somewhat like an old theater
marquee there would likely have been no such impression. Is my
interpretation of your report correct? If so, could you obtain
witness estimates of the rate at which the light pattern gave
the appearance of circling, or at least an estimate of the rate
at which individual light sources might have been on and then
off?

The kind of data I request may not mean much of anything to some
on this list, but to any who, like me, are concerned about what
physics might be involved, the kind of information requested can
be helpful, if the observers are good observers and careful
reporters of what they think they observed, and if the
investigator is careful.

I would like to compare what those observers noticed to what my
project and I have filmed of daylight UFOs with sequencing
bluish emission patterns around them, so any help you might be
able to provide would be deeply appreciated.

Also, I want to thank you, Brian, for so consistently and
faithfully reporting cases you investigate to this List. I wish
that more persons were able and willing to get out 'into the
field' as you are consistently doing. Some of us might
interview, screen cases, and report somewhat differently than
you do, but by golly, it is the doers like you, Brian, who
actively investigate, rather than the desktop pontificators, who
deserve the most and brightest UFOlogical 'stars in their
crowns'.


Appreciatively,

Ray Stanford

"You know my method. It is founded upon the observance of
trifles." -- Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery








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                        Re: The Beveridge UFO - Hatch

From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 08:12:39 -0800
Fwd Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 15:08:29 -0500
Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO - Hatch


>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 14:34:14 +0000
>Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO

<snip>

>This thread is beginning to bug me.

Me too.

>But seriously folks, has anyone addressed the possibility (all
>alternatives need to be considered and confirmed or ruled out)
>that the image is the result of a developmental flaw? If so, I
>missed that. But then, I haven't followed every single comment
>having seen hundreds of such photos come and go over the years.

>Very often when the photographer sees nothing, it is because
>there was nothing there to see. This may be different for
>digital cameras, but someone should at least address the issue
>if they haven't already.


Hi Dick:

I tried to look at this from all angles, but never seriously
considered a photographic flaw.

For me, and I'm no photo expert, the 'bug' is too solid,
complete and consistent to be a photographic anomaly.

I would expect such an anomaly to betray itself by some
geometrical (digital) pattern like a lens effect would, or maybe
a string of bad bits in an electronic chip.

If there were such a flaw, other images from the same camera
should show them.

Rather than some imaging foo-boo, I suggest a beetle instead of
a bug. Both have many flying species after all. If that sounds
like hair-splitting, some people consider spiders and centipedes
to be 'bugs' when neither can fly nor is either even an insect!

What I least expect are Venusian space brothers here to save us
from our evil [burp] ways.


Biss wushes

- Larry Hatch









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                       Re: UFOs Call Town Home - Hatch

From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 08:26:24 -0800
Fwd Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 15:42:59 -0500
Subject: Re: UFOs Call Town Home - Hatch


>Source: The Herald Sun - Melbourne, Australia

>http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5478,8612037%5E2862,00.htm
l

>08feb04

>UFOs Call Town Home
>by Ian Haberfield

>The tiny town of Beveridge, north of Melbourne, is fast earning
>a reputation as Australia's UFO hot spot.

>Since Whittlesea Council released a photograph purportedly
>showing a UFO, other locals have come forward claiming to have
>seen flying objects.

>Kilmore resident Peter Christie said he was taking his daughter,
>Elise, to a friend's house about 10pm on Saturday, January 10,
>when he noticed something flying in the west.

>"I saw this round thing in the sky with lights coming out of
>it," she said. "It was sort of moving. It wasn't going very fast
>or anything.

>"It had big, round lights coming out of it, it was too wide to
>be a plane... and it was nothing like a helicopter."

>She said there were several lights beaming outwards from the
>side of the object, parallel to the ground.

>"We both said, 'no, that's definitely not a plane'," she said,
>adding that the object was in view for several minutes.

<snip>

Good heavens. The so-called Whittlesea event took place on 15
January 2004. A 10 January sighting is five (count them) days
earlier.

Whittlesea a UFO hotspot?

I show one (possibly-to-be-deleted) record for any place nearby.

I would advise the Whittlesea/Beveridge Chambers of Commerce to
produce their UFO coffee mugs and tee-shirts in limited
editions.


Best wishes

- Larry










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                       Re: The Beveridge UFO - Ledger

From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 12:50:17 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 17:30:08 -0500
Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO - Ledger


>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 14:34:14 +0000
>Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO

<snip>

>This thread is beginning to bug me.

>But seriously folks, has anyone addressed the possibility (all
>alternatives need to be considered and confirmed or ruled out) that
>the image is the result of a developmental flaw? If so, I missed
>that. But then, I haven't followed every single comment having seen
>hundreds of such photos come and go over the years.

>Very often when the photographer sees nothing, it is because there
>was nothing there to see. This may be different for digital cameras,
>but someone should at least address the issue if they haven't
>already.


What "bugs" me Dick is the assumption that the object is a bug
when there is no evidence to support this contention. There is
work to be done here. For one thing the stated direction in
which the picture was taken conflicts with the stated time of
day and the shadow lines. Additionally I've been a photographer
for some 30 years and made a profession out of it for some time.
This bug in front of the lens has never occurred in the
thousands of pics I've taken nor for that matter have birds
shown up, unless I was shooting them. I have one anomalous photo
out of those thousands, and that was during a time exposure of
the Moon, a top shaped object -which I did not see- on it's side
some distance away from the Moon. I don't know what it is, but
one thing I'm certain of is that it's not a lens flare [consider
the light during time exposure] now a bug.

These convenient bugs and birds, which no one seems to be able
to identify or explain, are just that... convienient. Let's do
the work before we run around half cocked pretending that we
"ufologists" are beyond being duped by a bug in front of the
lens when indeed you might be duped into the wrong
identification.

Since the nature of the anomalous object-commonly known as a
ufo- is picked up with a camera and not seen by the witness-
what's the big deal? The camera-even the SLR-is far more capable
of stopping action at 1/2,000th of a second than is the human
eye which stops action only up to about 1/15th-1/16th of a
second.Digital cameras can stop action up to 1/20,000 of a
second. I see nothing remotely unusual about the photographer
not "seeing" that object, particularly through the tiny field of
a view finder. I sometimes wonder if any of those on these lists
ever use a camera or know anything about them considering the
nonsense I see on here.

Some one mentions there being no "sonic boom" if this object was
moving above the speed of sound. Paul R. Hill, an aerodynamicist
with Langley at NASA wondered the same thing about reports back
in the 50's 60s and 70's etc., and believed that it had
something to do with a possible field generated around the
object as a result of it's power source or perhaps purposely to
allow the object to slide effortlessly through the atmosphere.
He also noted that often the object was moving with a large
portion of its surface inclined into to the direction of flight
which would induce terrific drag, rather than attempting to
plane at some angle of attack. It has to be remembered that the
atmosphere creates terrific drag even after transonic
achievement, so eliminating it is a desirable effect.

Here's an experiment. Try and find the solid body of the Columbia inside
the plasma ball surrounding it as it breaks up in the atmosphere.
Those that can't get by today's physics are really going to have a
problem in the "UFO" field.

If we can't determine what it is then it is an unknown [that
means UFO, for those that don't understand the term], not a bug
or a bird because we can't identify it.

Sour grapes explanation. It's probably a "bug".


Don Ledger










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              Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Ledger

From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 13:35:02 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 17:32:06 -0500
Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Ledger


>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 06:12:10 -0800
>Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph

<snip>

>I'm still trying to fix the position of the Sun, believe it or
>not, with respect to the objects in the famous photo.

Yeah I keep bleating away about this problem with the light and
time versus the direction in which the camera was pointing.
Something doesn't add up if the time stated for the photo taken,
is correct.

Again Larry... a bug? Why? In another thread I've addressed
"the-UFO- photos-captured-which-the-photographer-didn't-see"
question. Whether the photographer saw the object or not, is not
a real issue-nor a reason to discount the photograph. Consider
the speed of the object and the picture through a viewfinder.
Remember most amateur photographers don't use the viewfinder on
a digital camera, they use the little 1.5 inch screen. I defy
anyone to notice an object on that screen the size of this
thing. particularly if it's moving too fast to see.

Remember, radar can't see the B-2B bomber but that doesn't mean
it's not there. To quote Stan Friedman. "I've never seen Tokyo,
but I'm positive it exists."

The ambiguity of the human eye [and the brain that processes the
information] cuts in both directions.

Don Ledger









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                      Re: The Beveridge UFO - Stanford

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 12:57:54 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 17:34:02 -0500
Subject: Re:  The Beveridge UFO - Stanford


>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 23:29:45 -0400
>Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO

>>From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 08:13:39 -0600
>>Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO

>>>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 18:36:22 -0800
>>>Subject: The Beveridge UFO

>>>Oh and by the way - the thingy in the picture was a bug flying
>>>by in close proximity to the camera!

>>Okay, but what kind of bug?

>Yeah? Who decided it was a bug?


Hi Don,

I, for one, did, but only after careful image analysis and
consideration of a host of other 'possibilities', even though at
first glimpse I fancied we might be looking at something less
prosaic, like, say, a cartoonist's version of a 'UFO'. I have
heard from others on this List who feel the same way.

That doesn't mean I expect those who might enjoy perceiving (or
have some inner need to perceive) a UFO in the image to agree,
however. Everyone has a right to their own perceptive paradigm.

In my opinion, however, one who tries to let go of his or her
expectations or hopes in analyzing an image and just asks, "What
is most likely to have produced that image? What am I really
looking at, there?" is far more likely to accurately determine
what created an image than anyone with a hope or wish at what
might be there.

I am, of course, not asking you, Don, or anyone else to
necessarily agree with my conclusion about what the image shows,
but I trust you understand my plea for an objective examination
of what might realistically be the source of the image. I have
seen domed, daylight discs and successfully movie-filmed several
such objects, so I have no reason to, a priori, reject the
possibility that someone else might have photographed one (even
if he didn't notice anything unusual). Realistically, however,
I must say that the image shown looks to me a heck of a lot more
like a unfocused, flying bug (I think I may be able to made out
some unfocused images of some of the bug's legs, too) than any
domed UFO I have ever seen and filmed, first hand, or accepted
as possibly real in seemingly credible photos made by others.

Finally, whatever one makes of this photo, both its circumstance
(unseen) and the lack of unambiguous image content make it next
to useless, or probably utterly useless, in elucidating the 'UFO
mystery' in its classical sense.

Thus, I second the motion of others who have suggested we move
on to hopefully more meaningful issues.


Ray Stanford

"You know my method. It is founded upon the observance of trifles." --
Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery








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                     6 UFO Sighting Reports This Morning

From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO <hbccufo.nul>
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 10:54:27 -0800
Fwd Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 17:35:26 -0500
Subject: 6 UFO Sighting Reports This Morning


Hi List,

Just an early morning update on things this Saturday morning,
February 7, 2004.

So far today, and it is only 11:00 a.m. I have taken 6 UFO
sighting reports. The phone has been ringing pretty good this
morning, plus emails reports coming in. So things are heating up
again for northern British Columbia.

Take care and I will be posting all reports as I get them
written up.

Take care


Brian

HBCC UFO Research








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               Re: Michael J. Woods On NASA's Motives - Rudiak

From: David Rudiak <DRudiak.nul>
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 11:04:40 -0800
Fwd Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 17:37:38 -0500
Subject: Re: Michael J. Woods On NASA's Motives - Rudiak


>From: Lan Fleming <lfleming5.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 16:27:19 -0600
>Subject: Re: Michael J. Woods On NASA's Motives

>>From: Eleanor White <eleanor.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 10:05:24 -0500
>>Subject: Michael J. Woods On NASA's Motives

>>Michael stated that NASA could not be covering up artifacts
>>because nothing would spur generous budget allocations like
>>finding artificial structures and implements on Mars. I'd like
>>to comment that Michael's point would only be true _if_ NASA
>>management and higher members of the NASA chain of command
>>are, behind the scenes and above all else, wanting a larger
>>budget.

>Speaking of different organizations internal to NASA having
>different agendas: I recently read in disbelief that Northwest
>Airlines has admitted sending personal information about their
>passengers to NASA without the passengers knowing about it. It
>almost sounds like a paranoid conspiracy theory, but it appar-
>ently is a fact that NASA has been involved in what amounts
>to spying on the public in the name of national security. It
>makes me wonder if acronym "NASA" now stands for the National
>Airline Spy Agency. I doubt that whatever NASA group is involved
>in these covert intelligence activities cares much about whether
>or not there's life on Mars - unless the Martians are booking
>flights on Northwest.

NASA (and it's predecessor NACA) have often been in bed with our
national security state agendas, and it is doubtful that it has
ever been a truly independent civilian organization. The
earliest, well-documented example that I am familiar with is the
infamous U-2 shootdown by the Russians in 1960.

The CIA had NASA put out a cover story that the downed U-2 was
really an errant NASA/Air Force weather research plane flying
out of Turkey. Supposedly the pilot passed out from oxygen
deprivation and the plane went off course and crashed. NASA even
went so far as to manufacture phonied transcripts of
communications with the pilot before he passed out. To bolster
the cover story, a NASA insignia was quickly painted on a U-2
along with a fictitious NASA serial number, and put on display
for the news media at the NASA Flight Research Center at Edwards
AFB.

NASA/NACA complicity with the CIA concerning the true purpose of
the U-2 dated back to 1956. NACA's director Hugh Dryden issued
two press releases that the U-2 aircraft were conducting weather
research with Air Force support. The U-2 unit operating out of
Turkey was designated a weather reconnaissance squadron.

(Weather balloons in 1947, weather planes in 1960--the cover
story hadn't changed much.)

For more on NASA and the U-2 cover story:

http://www.dfrc.nasa.gov/Gallery/Photo/U-2/HTML/E-5442.html

http://www.globalsecurity.org/intell/systems/u-2.htm

So NASA covering up evidence of alien life if instructed to do
so? Sure, why not? They know who is truly buttering their bread.


David Rudiak







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   Feb > Feb 7

             Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Stanford

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 16:23:35 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 17:39:01 -0500
Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Stanford


>From: Dan Bright <ufo.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 15:47:00 -0000
>Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph

>>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 15:45:46 -0500
>>Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph

>>I agree, provided we also consider the possibility that there
>>might be a fly (or flying bug) in the photographic 'ointment'.

>Again for the benefit of those without image software, I posted
>some interesting enhancements (simple colour level adjustments)
>that may mitigate in favour of the 'bug' hypothesis:

>http://zaziork.com/astrobservation/whittlesea_image_analysis.htm

>Naturally I'm very cautious about 'enhancing' images, due to the
>ease by which such adjustments can provide false impressions of
>the original data. So while the blow-ups linked above may
>suggest a clearer definition of wings and head/abdomen/thorax
>detail, I still agree with the (seeming) consensus that there is
>too little data upon which to formulate a definitive conclusion.


You're doing a bright job, Dan, in keeping with your name. Keep
up the good work and best wishes,

Ray Stanford

"You know my method.  It is founded upon the observance of trifles." --
Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery








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                     Re: Review Of Sight Unseen - Harney

From: John Harney <magonia.nul>
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 21:29:44 -0000
Fwd Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 17:41:35 -0500
Subject: Re: Review Of Sight Unseen - Harney


>From: Stuart Miller <Stuart.Miller4.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 15:15:43 -0000
>Subject: Re: Review Of Sight Unseen

>>From: John Harney <magonia.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 20:54:39 -0000
>>Subject: Re: Review Of Sight Unseen

>>All Carol Rainey's stuff about scientific advancements is the
>>sort of thing you can read about in "New Scientist" every week.
>>It is hardly reasonable to attempt to use it to explain stories
>>which are unsupported by physical evidence and which are more
>>rationally explained, or at least described, with reference to
>>delusions, unusual mental states and distorted memories.

>Oh this is funny. I take it then that you are dismissing New
>Scientist as some pop rag filled with Readers Digest style,
>spoon fed simplistic nonsense. Or something similar. I've no
>idea where Carol drew her material from but even if by chance,
>some came from New Scientist or some other similar publication,
>does that somehow make it invalid? Are you saying New Scientist
>publishes lies and disinformation?

There's nothing wrong with the information in New Scientist as
far as I know. The point is that it is irrelevant to cases of
people who believe they are being abducted by aliens, or who are
persuaded by Hopkins and friends that they are being abducted by
aliens. Some of these people obviously need the services of
mental health professionals, rather than having their fantasies
reinforced by enthusiastic amateurs who develop increasingly
crazy notions about aliens.

The technique of using various items culled from scientific
journals to attempt to explain the absence of convincing
physical evidence for alien abductions might be entertaining,
but it is really rather silly as more mundane (more boring?)
explanations are available for the phenomena described.

Either abductions are physical, in which case the military would
be dealing with them - which does not seem to be happening - or
they are psychological, and treatment of such cases should be
left to professionals.

>So its all in the show is it John? The superficialities, the
>source? As long as that appeals to your vanities then that's OK,
>is it? And while I'm sure the barbs you aim at those who claim
>to have been abducted are nothing they haven't heard before,
>perhaps it might be a good idea to keep those private thoughts
>just that. At least on this List.

I don't aim barbs at those who claim to have been abducted - I
am concerned about those who exploit them, by sensationalising
their accounts and claiming that abductions are physically real.
There are many on this list who take a very indulgent attitude
to such people, but are constantly moaning that mainstream
science doesn't take ufology seriously.

>So Magnausea is neither entertaining or interesting. Well, fair
>enough, you can't be accused of using this site to garner
>further readership then. So while you directly accost UFO
>Magazine readers, you indirectly label your following as boring
>and devoid of any interest as Human Beings. John, we agree.
>Trouble is, most of your readers would be quite happy to be
>labled that way.

I don't know what your problem with Magonia is. No one is forced
to read it. Those who don't like it can read the glossy UFO mags
instead, with their exciting stories about the latest cover-up
conspiracies, developments in anti-gravity propulsion, how the
space people built the Pyramids, and other such garbage.


John Harney








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                         Re: UFO On Mars? - Balaskas

From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul>
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 17:31:51 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
Fwd Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 17:47:30 -0500
Subject: Re: UFO On Mars? - Balaskas


>From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg.nul>
>Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 04:57:19 -0600
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Subject: UFO On Mars?

>What the _hell_ is this, then?

>From, and with no apologies, the Coast to Coast website...
>mainstream media is _totally_ responsible for driving me into
>the arms of fringe radio. I'm sure Mr. Rimmer (of Magonia), he
>of the horrific hologram, would understand that, for all his
>protestations to the very contrived contrary.

<snip>

Hi Alfred!

Unlike the object in the Whittlesea Australia UFO photograph, we
can almost definitely rule out a flying bird or a bug as an
explanation for this spot in the Martian sky! This UFO on Mars
can also be clearly seen in the original Spirit Rover picture
that is posted at NASA's JPL web site below.

http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/2/n/033/2N129300816EFF0327P1730L0M1.H
TML

Last night I attended a special talk on Mars at the Ontario
Science Centre by William K. Hartmann, a scientist involved with
the Mars Global Surveyor and the author of 'A Traveler's Guide
To Mars'. During the public question period after his
fascinating presentation, I asked Dr. Hartmann for his comments
on the vivid bluish-green colours in certain suspected river
valleys and some deep basins or craters on Mars seen in the
detailed pictures taken by the British spacecraft Mars Express
this is currently orbiting Mars. To my surprise, this Mars
scientist said he was not sure but he suspected that these
colours were not real! Based on this guess, this winner of the
Carl Sagan Medal from the American Astronomical Society came to
the conclusion that these amazing British pictures of Mars do
not really depict water nor could they be interpreted as life on
Mars!

After the talk, I told Dr. Hartmann while he signed a copy of
his book for me (and then continued to draw a picture of Mars
with its two orbiting moons with a red pen), that I had followed
up in the late Jim Irwin's (Apollo 15 moonwalker) search for
Noah's Ark in eastern Turkey near the borders of Armenia and
Iran and for evidence of a recent global flood similar to the
one than once covered much of the surface of Mars. Although he
knew Irwin and his work and acknowledged that there was large
regional flood in recent human history in that part of the
world, he did not believe that this flood was a world-wide
catastrophic event as described in the Bible and in the written
and oral traditions of peoples all around the globe.

In his talk Dr. Hartmann said that the late Dr. Carl Sagan,
unlike the majority of his fellow scientists, never ruled out
the possibility of large animals or macrobes moving around the
surface of Mars. A geologist working on the two Viking landers
that successfully landed on Mars in 1976 said the following:
"Carl wanted to rev up the camera in order to see rabbits hop
by." (page 76 in 'The Search for Life on Mars' by Henry Cooper).
Maybe this strange white object with the two protruding things
(see the URL below) will turn out to be Carl Sagan's "Rabbit" or
some similar macrobe.

http://www.rense.com/general48/stransge.htm

Such a discovery would vindicate Sagan and his more open minded
and exciting approach of doing science and may encourage other
Mars scientists to do likewise who now avoid such scientific
speculation or show any excitement in public leaving us to try
and figure things out. Where are scientists like Carl Sagan when
we need them?


Nick Balaskas







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               Re: "Sight Unseen:" Distortions and Innuendos -

From: Katharina Wilson <K_Wilson.nul>
Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 18:26:51 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2004 09:44:27 -0500
Subject: Re: "Sight Unseen:" Distortions and Innuendos -


>From: Luis R. Gonzalez <lrgm.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 16:20:08 +0100
>Subject: Re: "Sight Unseen:" Distortions and Innuendos

>>From: Katharina Wilson Wilson <K_Wilson.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 14:57:06 -0500
>>Subject: "Sight Unseen:" Distortions and Innuendos

>>>From: Luis R. Gonzalez <lrgm.nul>
>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 10:10:45 +0100
>>>Subject: Re: "Sight Unseen:" Distortions and Innuendos

<snip>

>"After I left the rest room I saw some pay phones and remembered
>that I promised to call my husband after the plane landed.
>Usually, I don't call him till I get to my hotel room, but this
>time I called him right away. I was extremely agitated, and the
>first thing he said was: "I see your plane was late getting to
>Chicago". I looked at my watch and it read about 3:20 Portland
>time".

>My experience as an occasional air traveller is that getting out
>of the plane, collecting the luggage, taking the transportation
>to the nearby city, collecting the keys at the hotel, and
>reaching the room, usually take much more than 1 hour. So, if
>you usually call your husband from the hotel, when he received
>your call, he has not any reasonable reason to suppose your
>plane was late. To him, you were calling from the hotel, and the
>delay was completely reasonable.

NO - I called my husband from the airport and I told him I was
at the airport. Maybe I should have told you that I told him I
was calling from the airport.

Then, when I got to my room, I telephoned him again.

Again, I called my husband from the airport, so YES, it does
make sense.

>Do you see the incongruency?

No, because there is no incongruence.

>This part of the incident cannot had happened exactly as you
>recall, and if you are wrong here, you can be wrong in other
>things (or not).

No, _again_, I called my husband from the airport.

>Of course, the explanation could be as simple as he asking an
>hypothetical question ("Did the plane arrive late?") and you
>interpreting it as an affirmation. But even in this favourable
>case, your recall is not precise. And I defend it does have a
>bearing in the case.

You are reading things into this conversation that are not there.

>So, if you admit that your conversation took a couple of
>minutes, and you insist that your clock did show the same time
>3:20) at the luggage reclaim area, I would bid for a simpler EM
>effect (clock stoppage), because teleportation would not be
>enough, it should had been time travel!

My watch worked just fine the whole weekend and it worked fine
before that and it continued to work fine for another year until
the battery went out. Now it has a new battery, and it still
works fine.

><snip>

>I consider myself an abduction researcher, even if I have never
>been able to talk at length with any alleged abductee. In any
>case, it is not I who should want a "reality check", you
>yourself should be looking for it.

I was not implying that you needed a reality check, I was
saying that I understood why you would want one.

>First, I am not the kind of person who would go up and touch a
>complete stranger in a bathroom.

>>I am not sure about seeing myself in the mirror because checking
>>my appearance was the last thing on my mind at that time.

>Please, we are not talking about checking your appearance or
>doing strange things in a bathroom, we are talking about a
>person who after having dozen of alleged aliens encounters in
>all kind of circunstances (even MILABS, if I do not recall
>wrongly), finding herself panicking because the automatic
>faucets are not registering her, is unable to control herself
>the few seconds needed to look at a mirror and confirm (or not)
>if she is really invisible! If after suffering so many strange
>incidents in my life, I would find myself in a similar
>situation, I will not hesitate to touch somebody in the shoulder
>and politely ask her anything, or even bump premeditately
>against some person, offering later whatever excuses I may need.
>Or many other "reality checks" anybody can think in the spur of
>the moment. The only reason I cam imagine not to do so is being
>so much agitated and unnerved not to trust anything I recalled
>later.

With all due respect, no one who has _never_ been abducted (by
ETs or humans) knows precisely how they will respond and what
their emotions will be until it happens to them.

>>I hope people will still be interested in this book - you still
>>haven't heard my host's side of the story, and there are plenty
>>of other good cases written about in "Sight Unseen."

>Now that you mention it, I also find something not normal in
>your host actions. Allegedly, they were so concerned that they
>checked with United Airlines, but did not even try to call you
>through the loudspeakers. Besides, in a so busy airport, I do
>not think a luggage carrousel could be get unused for an hour,
>your red suitcase going around for a full 60 minutes. I am sure
>a better estimation of your missing time would be less than 30
>minutes.

Maybe you are not aware, but airports do not stagger flights
throughout the day, they group flights, and multiple carriers
have "rush hours" for lack of a better term. So, it is possible
for a "lull" in traffic to occur. If everyone had already
retrieved their baggage and left, there would not have been many
people around at all.

>In the end, what I am really questioning is Hopkins' attitude to
>consider anything strange in the life of an abductee as
>originated with the aliens.

Just as an FYI: Budd by no means believes that everything
strange that occurs to people is ET related. I distinctly recall
him telling me that one event I believed was an abduction was,
his actual words were, "That must have been a nice dream."

I just want to make it clear that Budd got everything down on
paper absolutely correctly as far as my experience in the
airport goes. He did not make any mistakes in reporting what
happened to me. I documented this in my journal immediately
after returning to Portland.

As far as Carol Rainey's interpretations, ideas or theories go,
they are all plausible to me. She even states that these are
only theories as to what may have happened. She is entitled to
put forth theories as to what may have happened to me. I still
to not know how whoever did this did it, but it happened and
what is in the book is everything I remember about it up to this
point.

** I really have nothing new to add to this post or to the
events that occurred to me at O'Hare, so I will not be
responding to it again. Thanks.***


Katharina Wilson










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                        Re: The Beveridge UFO - Velez

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 18:31:56 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2004 09:46:07 -0500
Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO - Velez


>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
>To:  ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 12:50:17 -0400
>Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO

>>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 14:34:14 +0000
>>Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO

><snip>

>>This thread is beginning to bug me.

>>But seriously folks, has anyone addressed the possibility (all
>>alternatives need to be considered and confirmed or ruled out) that
>>the image is the result of a developmental flaw? If so, I missed
>>that. But then, I haven't followed every single comment having seen
>>hundreds of such photos come and go over the years.

>>Very often when the photographer sees nothing, it is because there
>>was nothing there to see. This may be different for digital cameras,
>>but someone should at least address the issue if they haven't
>>already.

>What "bugs" me Dick is the assumption that the object is a bug
>when there is no evidence to support this contention. There is
>work to be done here. For one thing the stated direction in
>which the picture was taken conflicts with the stated time of
>day and the shadow lines. Additionally I've been a photographer
>for some 30 years and made a profession out of it for some time.
>This bug in front of the lens has never occurred in the
>thousands of pics I've taken nor for that matter have birds
>shown up, unless I was shooting them. I have one anomalous photo
>out of those thousands, and that was during a time exposure of
>the Moon, a top shaped object -which I did not see- on it's side
>some distance away from the Moon. I don't know what it is, but
>one thing I'm certain of is that it's not a lens flare [consider
>the light during time exposure] now a bug.

>These convenient bugs and birds, which no one seems to be able
>to identify or explain, are just that... convienient. Let's do
>the work before we run around half cocked pretending that we
>"ufologists" are beyond being duped by a bug in front of the
>lens when indeed you might be duped into the wrong
>identification.

>Since the nature of the anomalous object-commonly known as a
>ufo- is picked up with a camera and not seen by the witness-
>what's the big deal? The camera-even the SLR-is far more capable
>of stopping action at 1/2,000th of a second than is the human
>eye which stops action only up to about 1/15th-1/16th of a
>second.Digital cameras can stop action up to 1/20,000 of a
>second. I see nothing remotely unusual about the photographer
>not "seeing" that object, particularly through the tiny field of
>a view finder. I sometimes wonder if any of those on these lists
>ever use a camera or know anything about them considering the
>nonsense I see on here.

>Some one mentions there being no "sonic boom" if this object was
>moving above the speed of sound. Paul R. Hill, an aerodynamicist
>with Langley at NASA wondered the same thing about reports back
>in the 50's 60s and 70's etc., and believed that it had
>something to do with a possible field generated around the
>object as a result of it's power source or perhaps purposely to
>allow the object to slide effortlessly through the atmosphere.
>He also noted that often the object was moving with a large
>portion of its surface inclined into to the direction of flight
>which would induce terrific drag, rather than attempting to
>plane at some angle of attack. It has to be remembered that the
>atmosphere creates terrific drag even after transonic
>achievement, so eliminating it is a desirable effect.

>Here's an experiment. Try and find the solid body of the Columbia inside
>the plasma ball surrounding it as it breaks up in the atmosphere.
>Those that can't get by today's physics are really going to have a
>problem in the "UFO" field.

Hi Don,

You wrote:

>If we can't determine what it is then it is an unknown [that
>means UFO, for those that don't understand the term], not a bug
>or a bird because we can't identify it.

<lol> Ooooh, be careful, Don! You're using the dreaded 'UFO'
acronym! There are some who will insist that you mean to say
that the object is an 'alien craft from outer space.' Not that
it is an 'unidentified flying object.' I never fail to be
surprised about how many people are still stuck on what is meant
by the acronym 'U.F.O.' All this time I was laboring under
impression that we all understood each other when we used -
basic- terms like 'UFO.' If we have to stop and explain every
time we use the term, maybe it is time to choose a new one.

All I know is; each and every time I use the acronym UFO) that
what is meant is; an 'unidentified flying object' and not 'alien
invaders from outer space.' Some people just can't seem to make
that distinction. Not only that, some will insist that that is
what you mean even after you tell them that it is _not_ what you
meant! What do you do then? Pull your hair out? Old horseplayers
have a saying about not being able to win for all the losing!
It's, Catch 22. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

>Sour grapes explanation. It's probably a "bug".

"Sour grapes explanation", Hee-Haw! I love that one! I've been
sitting back studying the responses to this photo. Talk about
'Short Attention Span Theater'!!! There are people who have
already _shelved_ the case because they think that there is
nothing more to be learned or done in this case! Still others
have declared that the object could be a "bug," ergo, end of
story. Nothing left to discuss. Sayonara Whittlesea  photo, it's
been a blast but now it's time to move on and feed on the next
thing.

The sheer speed with which some people can sweep something under
a rug, or become 'bored' is nothing short of blinding. Or as Mel
Brooks would label it; "Ludicrous speed."

No use discussing this photo anymore, it's been solved, wrapped
up neatly, tied in ribbon and put on a shelf to collect dust.
And you may wonder why so little ever gets accomplished in
ufology. Well wonder no more my friend and pass around the
Ritalin tablets. The average attention span for 'some' around
here can be measured in moments. <vbg>

I don't let it 'bug' me. I just continue to ask my questions and
hope I find some answers here and there. If you finally learn
anything about the position of the sun when the photo was taken
I would appreciate your sharing it with me, Don. I for one,
haven't put this one to bed yet. Too many unanswered questions.
And in spite of many opinions to the contrary, that 'thing' in
the photo (whatever it is) _still_ looks like a domed disc to my
eyes.

I hate having an itch that I can't scratch.


Warmest regards,

John Velez








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             Houston Resident Busy Researching Sightings In The

From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO <hbccufo.nul>
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 16:10:56 -0800
Fwd Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2004 10:14:58 -0500
Subject: Houston Resident Busy Researching Sightings In The


Source: Prince George Citizen

http://www.princegeorgecitizen.com

February 7, 2004


Houston Resident Busy Researching Sightings In The Sky

by Paul Strickland
Citizen staff


A Houston man who researches celestial phenomena says a number
of unexplained objects have appeared in the night sky over
Prince George and the Northern Interior in recent years.

Brian Vike hopes local residents will phone his toll-free line,
1-866-262-1989, to report any unusual sightings.

Vike owns and operates HBCC UFO Research (HBCC stands for
Houston, British Columbia, Canada), which he established in
2000. He says the number of reports of unexplained night-sky
phenomena has increased dramatically since 2002.

"There is no doubt something is happening in our skies", he
said. "Particularly in the last two months there have been a lot
of strange things."

Vike said a Prince George resident reported a red ball of light
just west of the city Jan.30 around 9.30 p.m.

"The first time it rose from behind trees, and then it moved to
the west and hovered above the trees," he said.

"Afterwards it jumped higher quite suddenly, took off for the
west, and made a curving motion.

"She said that, being so close, they thought it may be a
helicopter but it made no noise." Vike says.

Another resident called around the same time to report exactly
the same phenomena, he added.

Other Prince George residents saw a ball of light over the
industrial area east of the downtown core, the evening of
January 29th. "It flew over and split in two," Vike said. "Each
part went in a different direction".

This week a city resident near First and Tabor told The Citizen
she and four friends saw two orange objects in the northern sky,
January 31st around 10.p.m. After five or 10 minutes they moved
lightly apart, one more slowly than the other. The first one
disappeared fairly quickly into clouds afterwards, while the
other moved out more slowly and faded off.

Above a month and a half ago, Prince George residents phoned
about a possible meteor, Vike said. "It was a real good fireball
streaking across the sky just west of Prince," he said. "It was
blue and left a long bright trail behind it. It lit up quite an
area as it travelled through."

Another incident occurred in the city about a month ago. A
resident was standing by the Future Shop, looking west just
after the sky had turned dark. For two minutes the resident saw
a large flame, such as from a jet afterburn, but they didn't see
any aircraft anywhere.

Last Fall, a Quesnel resident driving north towards Prince
George saw an oval shaped light from highway 97 between the two
communities.

"In the last while dozens of people in Prince George have seen
unusual phenomena," he said.

Reports of sightings may be faxed to Vike at 250 845 2189 or
email to hbccufo.nul










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   Feb > Feb 8

                      Re: State Of Ufology - Dickenson

From: Ray Dickenson <editor.nul>
Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2004 00:38:09 +0000
Fwd Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2004 10:18:59 -0500
Subject: Re: State Of Ufology - Dickenson


>From: Steven Kaeser <steve.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 08:28:03 -0500
>Subject: Re: State Of Ufology

>Again, please provide linkage between any Government and
>"debunkers".

>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 14:28:14 +0000
>Subject: Re: State Of Ufology

>I strongly challenge this allegation. What government or other
>great expense?

Some've misunderstood (maybe) "Perceptions" stance on UFOs and
other phenomena.

I'm no Ufologist and no policeman, mediaman, psychologist,
medic, taxman, bureaucrat or lawyer either, but, by standing
back from nit-picking arguments on primary data (anyway always
controlled by those in "power"), "Perceptions" has drawn
conclusions & successfully forecast large-scale national
corruption and deceptions amongst _all_ those groups. (see
"perceptions + tax" or "laworjustice" or "beebvbeeb" in Google).

All "Perceptions" forecasts have eventually been confirmed (so
far).

How's it done? - By viewing secondary (emergent) data. Like - a)
who's taken control of evidence and 'rules'? [that agency is
always the first subverted by perps] - b) who's _actually_
controlling cover-ups? [almost never first in line, hidden by
fronts] - b) who gains from corruption / deceptions? [not always
immediately apparent].

And "Perceptions" famously successful forecasts in science area
come the same way, by abandoning _all_ accepted axioms and
starting from scratch. Why? Most reported
experiments/discoveries _didn't_ actually produce the results we
are told about.

(see "perceptions + radiation" or "perceptions + experiment +
michelson" in Google).

Now you can see - from "Exosci" and "psyche storms" - the UFO
conclusions (however 'dangerous' they may be).

As in so many other areas, we're being conned.


Cheers

Ray D

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Perceptions" http://www.perceptions.couk.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~





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                          Re: UFO On Mars? - Velez

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 19:57:58 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2004 10:20:49 -0500
Subject: Re: UFO On Mars? - Velez


>From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 17:31:51 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
>Subject: Re: UFO On Mars?

>>From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg.nul>
>>Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 04:57:19 -0600
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Subject: UFO On Mars?

>>What the _hell_ is this, then?

>>From, and with no apologies, the Coast to Coast website...
>>mainstream media is _totally_ responsible for driving me into
>>the arms of fringe radio. I'm sure Mr. Rimmer (of Magonia), he
>>of the horrific hologram, would understand that, for all his
>>protestations to the very contrived contrary.

><snip>

>Hi Alfred!

Hello Alfred, Nick, All,

Nick responded:

>Unlike the object in the Whittlesea Australia UFO photograph, we
>can almost definitely rule out a flying bird or a bug as an
>explanation for this spot in the Martian sky! This UFO on Mars
>can also be clearly seen in the original Spirit Rover picture
>that is posted at NASA's JPL web site below.

>http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/2/n/033/2N129300816EFF0327P1730L0M1.
HTML

It looks like a case of simple 'pixel drop-out' Alfred. I don't
think anything 'green' with antenae is going to come popping out
of it any time soon.  :)

>Where are scientists like Carl Sagan when
>we need them?

Scientists like Carl Sagan? I hope this doesn't sound too crass
but, my answer to that questions is; "Hopefully, the same place
Carl is now. Six feet under!"

In case you couldn't tell, there is no love lost between me and
the late Carl Sagan. I'm not among those who 'idolize' him.


John Velez








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                        Re: UFO On Mars? - Stockstill

From: Bill Stockstill <size14d.nul>
Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 21:07:42 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2004 10:56:43 -0500
Subject: Re: UFO On Mars? - Stockstill


>From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg.nul>
>Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 04:57:19 -0600
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Subject: UFO On Mars?

>What the _hell_ is this, then?

>From, and with no apologies, the Coast to Coast website...
>mainstream media is _totally_ responsible for driving me into
>the arms of fringe radio. I'm sure Mr. Rimmer (of Magonia), he
>of the horrific hologram, would understand that, for all his
>protestations to the very contrived contrary.

>http://www.coasttocoastam.com/timages/page/sol33_2.jpg

That is not the only strange thing in this photo. Check the full
size NASA photo at:

http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/2/n/033/2N129300816EFF0327P1730L0M1.J
PG.

What is that along the upper left edge of the picture? It
appears to be close to the camera. I guess it could be part of
the Rover. Anyone know for sure?


Bill








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                       Re: The Beveridge UFO - Ledger

From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 22:13:12 -0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2004 11:00:24 -0500
Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO - Ledger


>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 12:57:54 -0500
>Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO - Ledger

>>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 23:29:45 -0400
>>Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO

<snip>

>>Yeah? Who decided it was a bug?

>I, for one, did, but only after careful image analysis and
>consideration of a host of other 'possibilities', even though at
>first glimpse I fancied we might be looking at something less
>prosaic, like, say, a cartoonist's version of a 'UFO'. I have
>heard from others on this List who feel the same way.

>That doesn't mean I expect those who might enjoy perceiving (or
>have some inner need to perceive) a UFO in the image to agree,
>however. Everyone has a right to their own perceptive paradigm.

>In my opinion, however, one who tries to let go of his or her
>expectations or hopes in analyzing an image and just asks, "What
>is most likely to have produced that image? What am I really
>looking at, there?" is far more likely to accurately determine
>what created an image than anyone with a hope or wish at what
>might be there.

>I am, of course, not asking you, Don, or anyone else to
>necessarily agree with my conclusion about what the image shows,

Yeah, well what's the reason for the gentle brow beating in the
2nd and 3rd paragraphs. If you want to argue your case leave the
"inner need" BS out of it and we can take it from there. I don't
hang on UFO pics to round out my life, don't have some deep need
to believe in them. What I have a deep need for is a new
airplane.

I've been to your site and Amy's and in your case I've seen
nothing there to make me believe that this is a bug. I don't see
legs either.

And Amy's method of using a dupe to emmulate a bug does't sit
well with me either. What you end up with there is a bug created
by using the outlines of something that might be anomalous. Put
wings on a pig and it's still a pig with wings.

If she could show me an actual picture of a bug that could
definitly be proved to be a bug that comes close to matching the
Beverage UFO, then zip I'm there. Otherwise either way it's just
a theory and not definitive. But consider this, it only takes a
few feet of distance to blow your bug out of the picture. I've
seen no estimate of distance for this bug to show up in the
picture-and in focus. The camera probably was set for
infinityand that bug would have been unseen at say 4 feet or
cloase. out past that and it's getting to be a big bug.

>but I trust you understand my plea for an objective examination
>of what might realistically be the source of the image. I have
>seen domed, daylight discs and successfully movie-filmed several
>such objects, so I have no reason to, a priori, reject the
>possibility that someone else might have photographed one (even
>if he didn't notice anything unusual). Realistically, however, I
>must say that the image shown looks to me a heck of a lot more
>like a unfocused, flying bug (I think I may be able to made out
>some unfocused images of some of the bug's legs, too) than any
>domed UFO I have ever seen and filmed, first hand, or accepted
>as possibly real in seemingly credible photos made by others.

>Finally, whatever one makes of this photo, both its
>circumstance (unseen) and the lack of unambiguous image content
>make it next to useless, or probably utterly useless, in
>elucidating the 'UFO mystery' in its classical sense.

That may be. It's a bit amazing don't you think, that these
things never show up in the proper manner, making it easier to
determine what they are.

>Thus, I second the motion of others who have suggested we move
on to hopefully more meaningful issues.

I think this issue will do well enough for me for the time
being, but that's up to the List and its Moderator. I'd be happy
knowing for sure in what direction the photographer was facing.
I don't believe West.


Don Ledger








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                          Re: UFO On Mars? - Groff

From: Terry Groff <terry.nul>
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 21:04:10 -0600
Fwd Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2004 11:02:13 -0500
Subject: Re: UFO On Mars? - Groff


>From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg.nul>
>Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 04:57:19 -0600
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Subject: UFO On Mars?

>What the _hell_ is this, then?

>From, and with no apologies, the Coast to Coast website...
>mainstream media is _totally_ responsible for driving me into
>the arms of fringe radio. I'm sure Mr. Rimmer (of Magonia), he
>of the horrific hologram, would understand that, for all his
>protestations to the very contrived contrary.
>http://www.coasttocoastam.com/timages/page/sol33_2.jpg

That image comes from the Left navigation camera of the Spirit
Rover:

http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/2/n/033/2N129300816EFF0327P1730L0M1.H
TML

Full Image:

http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/2/n/033/2N129300816EFF0327P1730L0M1.J
PG

It definitely has a spot in it however the Right Camera image has
no such object:

http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/2/n/033/2N129300816EFF0327P1730R0M1.H
TML

Full Image:

http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/2/n/033/2N129300816EFF0327P1730R0M1.H
TML

According to the NASA page, both images were taken at 13:39:02
Mars local solar time.

Could it be a speck of Martian dust on the left lens?


Terry Groff

UFO Tools - http://terrygroff.com/ufotools/








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                          Re: UFO On Mars? - McCoy

From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy.nul>
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 19:26:48 -0800
Fwd Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2004 11:06:51 -0500
Subject: Re: UFO On Mars? - McCoy


>From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 17:31:51 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
>Subject: Re: UFO On Mars?

>>From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg.nul>
>>Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 04:57:19 -0600
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Subject: UFO On Mars?

>>What the _hell_ is this, then?

<snip>

>>From, and with no apologies, the Coast to Coast website...
>>mainstream media is _totally_ responsible for driving me into
>>the arms of fringe radio. I'm sure Mr. Rimmer (of Magonia), he
>>of the horrific hologram, would understand that, for all his
>>protestations to the very contrived contrary.

>Such a discovery would vindicate Sagan and his more open minded
>and exciting approach of doing science and may encourage other
>Mars scientists to do likewise who now avoid such scientific
>speculation or show any excitement in public leaving us to try
>and figure things out. Where are scientists like Carl Sagan when
>we need them?


Hello all,

It is Clearly an Martian Pelican, Pelicanisi Marvini - Noted for
the heavy Crest of Feathers on its head and its tendency to want
to blow up the Earth for a better view of Venus.


GT McCoy









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                     Re: New European UFO Survey - Burns

From: Max Burns <max.burns.nul>
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 03:34:07 -0000
Fwd Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2004 11:13:05 -0500
Subject: Re: New European UFO Survey - Burns


>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 16:31:45 +0000
>Subject: Re: New European UFO Survey

>>From: Max Burns <max.burns.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 03:49:24 -0000
>>Subject: Re: New European UFO Survey

>>Perhaps, there may be future releases of information in the
>>coming months information that is not currently available on the
>>web site It would be premature to judge the group before anyone
>>has had an opertunity to listen and hear what they have to say.

>>Especially as they are only in the early stages of the launch

>>Surely time will tell.

>I am not pre-judging anything, but instead merely making an
>observation. In fact, I fervently hope that they are legitimate.
>But let's take a hypothetical case:

>If this group makes some statement alleging scientific validity
>to UFOs or claiming to validate some aspect of related research
>anonymously, good and influential scientists (be they
>uncommitted or outright skeptics) will pay no attention. If
>those same scientists see the statement(s) issuing from people
>with legiitmate and verifiable scientific credentials, they will
>be far more likely to take a look at the work, at least to the
>extent of trying to find  fault wiith it or good reason to
>modify their views.....

>That's science.

Dick,

That's a hypothetical situation - sure, I understand your point.
As I said. Perhaps we could stay away from the hypothetical and
simply wait and see what develops with the group.

They will stand or fall by the credibility of there findings,
and naturally if the group begin to make disclosure of there
findings then a name will have to be put to any claims.


Max








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                        Houston British Columbia 1985

From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO <hbccufo.nul>
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 21:26:56 -0800
Fwd Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2004 11:16:30 -0500
Subject: Houston British Columbia 1985


Report received February 7, 2004

Houston, British Columbia

Date:  1985
Time:  approx: 12:00 (midnight)

A fellow called me from Prince George today (February 7, 2004)
as he had a story to tell me over a sighting that he and a
friend of his had back in 1985 while working in Houston and the
Burns Lake areas.

Due to his occupation the gentleman had to travel back and forth
at that time between towns. They were working on contracts at
two different jobs.

One night, around midnight, they were on their way back to
Houston from Burns Lake, B.C. and were about 5 kilometers east
of Houston. There is a long straight stretch before you climb a
small long hill on Highway #16 which takes you right into the
town of Houston. While traveling on this straight part of the
Highway the witnesses passed the local gold course, looking
straight in front of them and a little to their right, sits
Mount Harry Davis.

On top of the mountain there sits the VOR (Visual Omni Range),
at this point on the drive both men watched a large bright,
white object rise from the VOR vertically into the air. They
wondered if it might have been a helicopter with one bright
light on it, but they soon ruled this out due to what the object
did next. When the light/object reached a certain point in the
night sky, it split into two balls of light and each ball of
light "shot" off at an incredible rate of speed in different
directions. The witnesses were so surprised that they stopped
their truck in the middle of the highway, flew open their doors
and stood watching this event unfold.

Both men started looking at one another wondering what it was
they just witnessed as it was so very unusual.

They were so curious to know what was up at the top of the
mountain, plus they wanted to look around for any sign that
something may have been there, that shouldn't have been, they
drove up the winding road on Mount Harry Davis and finally
reached the VOR on top of the mountain. Nothing unusual was
noted around the area, but they sure were baffled at what they
saw the night before.

Thank you to the witness for the report.


Brian Vike

Director
HBCC UFO Research
Canadian Toll Free UFO Hotline 1 866 262 1989 - Free call.
Home - Phone/Fax 1 250 845 2189
email: hbccufo.nul
Website: http://www.hbccufo.com








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               Re: Nigeria Quashes Air Crash Rumour - Stanford

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 01:21:35 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2004 11:18:31 -0500
Subject: Re: Nigeria Quashes Air Crash Rumour - Stanford


>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 11:50:18 -0400
>Subject: Re: Nigeria Quashes Air Crash Rumour

>>From: Terry W. Colvin <fortean1.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 09:52:12 -0700
>>Subject: Nigeria Quashes Air Crash Rumour

>>Source: BBCi
>>http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/3458427.stm
>>2004/02/04

>>Nigeria quashes air crash rumour

<snip>

>Terry, the most likely reason there was no report of a missing
>aircraft is that it was transporting illegal drugs. Knowlegable
>witnesses to the crash have tenatively identified the aircraft
>as a Beech 1900.


Hi Don,

Very reasonable, but, how would you access the probability that
a Beech 1900 could crash into the ocean in flames and not leave
an oil slick or any debris floating on or in the water, as seems
to have been the situation in this case?

Ray Stanford

"You know my method. It is founded upon the observance of
trifles." -- Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery








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               Re: Tracing The Flow Of The Gulf Breeze Money -

From: Robert Gates <RGates8254.nul>
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 02:54:56 EST
Fwd Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2004 11:21:00 -0500
Subject: Re: Tracing The Flow Of The Gulf Breeze Money -


>From: Kenny Young <ufo.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 02:05:56 -0500
>Subject: Re: Tracing The Flow Of The Gulf Breeze Money

>I called Jerry about the questions after his post to UpDates.
>Jerry asked that I type some answers on his behalf. These are
>his words in response to questions by Robert Gates, as I have
>re-typed them and verified by Jerry over the telephone this
>evening

>-----

>>From: Robert Gates <RGates8254.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 02:14:08 EST
>>Subject: Re: Tracing The Flow Of The Gulf Breeze Money

>>>From: Jerry Black <gulfbreezeinfo.nul>
>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 19:13:29 -0800 (PST)
>>>Subject: Tracing The Flow Of The Gulf Breeze Money

><snip>

>>Jerry,

>>I read with interest your piece and was disappointed as it
>>appears to be a bunch of allegations that don't have any
>>details substantiated. I would like to ask some questions
>>and get a detailed straight answer.

>>What date and exactly how much did Ed Walters give money to
>>MUFON/FUFOR? What was the context of the money? Donation? - Do
>>you have a copy of any agreement/email/letter and or
>>communication between Ed Walters and or Walt Andrus?


>Jerry Black responds:

>Vicky Lyons and Charles Flannigan both confirmed to Rex
>Salisberry that MUFON received money from Ed Walters for the
>purpose of subsidizing the investigation of the Gulf Breeze
>sightings. This was later confirmed in a phone conversation
>between Ed Walters and Rex Salisberry. Ed Walters said that he
>had paid money to the MUFON organization to support the
>investigation. He also said that he had shared part of his
>proceeds of the book royalties with Mr. Maccabee.

Dear Kenny, Jerry, List,

So essentially we have Lyons and Flannigan telling Salisberry
that MUFON got some kind of cash donation; we also have Ed
Walters allegedly telling Rex Salisberry this as well. So
essentially the key to all three of these exterior storys is Rex
Salisberry...whom we know has his own bias about the case.

>We do not have an exact figure how much Walters gave. I do not
>have copies of checks or E-mails.

So essentially its rumor/gossip and inuendo at this point, until
verified or not verified.

>The amount of money was rumored to be between ten to twenty
>thousand dollars.

Did anybody get a copy of the MUFON annual tax return which is
public record for the year in question which could shed light to
the large donation theory?

>From page 70 of Carol and Rex Salisberry's comprehensive report
>entitled "Anatomy of the Gulf Breeze - Ed Walters UFO Case," Rex
>states: "We were told by Vicky Lyons, who witnessed the original
>investigation, that Walters had paid for some of the
>investigative costs incurred early during the investigation.
>This troubled us because this appeared to be something which had
>been hidden by MUFON."

Essentially we have Vicky Lyons wagging a story on Salisberry
and apparently Salisberry never bothered to verify it further.
Without verification this is essentially another Roswellesque
"jewel encrusted helmet" story.

By their own account the phrase "some investigative costs"
apparently has morphed by somebody into allegedly paying
somebody 10/20K.

The problem with that is absolutly no proof of anything without
copies of MUFON checks to investigators and even then it will be
tough to present a case. Assuming Walters unloaded a sizeable
cash donation on MUFON, then anybody connected with the Gulf
Breeze case could have "received money that came from Ed
Walters" and whatever story they come up with no matter which
side could also be considered contaminated.

Years ago I recall a story then attributed to Walt Andrus that
MUFON also reembursed/paid for some of the expenses incured by
Salisberry and Hyzer. Bottom line is you would have to see the
MUFON checks to see who got paid what and when.

>>Do you have a copy of the letter Walters allegedly wrote to
>>Hyzer and or Salisbery about the photos? Do you know for a fact
>>that he (Walters) had the report in his hands, meaning that
>>somebody at MUFON received the reports from Hyzer/Salisbery,
>>promptly over nighted them to Walters? Timing would be critical
>>here. One could almost conclude that somebody up the vine just
>>pickup the phone and call Walters about something in one of the
>>reports.

>Ed Walters wrote a letter to photoanalyst William G. Hyzer
>telling him that he did not have permission to use his Gulf
>Breeze photos because they were copyrighted. This is according
>to Mr. Hyzer as he told me by telephone. Hyzer was surprise and
>upset because it was his understanding that the information
>given in his report was to be directed only to the MUFON
>director Walt Andrus and the information not to be arbitrarily
>given out to Walters, the claimant.

>Hyzer received the reply from Ed Walters within 48 hours of
>issuing his less than favorable report. Ed Walters sent this
>letter via special delivery "Air Mail" to Hyzer within 48-hours
>of Hyzer delivering his report to MUFON.

>Common sense would dictate that if Ed Walters responded in 48-
> hours after the Hyzer report was sent to Walt Andrus, that
>Walters certainly must have been given the - conclusion of the
>report almost immediately.

My point exactly. If this is all correct Ed may not have even
had a copy of the report, just that somebody called him and read
a segment of the report, and or asked a question for
clarification purposes. In essence we can't connect the dots and
make the claim that Ed Walters received a copy of the report, we
can only say that the evidence suggests that he had at least
been told the conclusions of the report and or been advised that
Hyzer was using his copyrighted photographs.


Cheers,

Robert








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                              Jim Mortellaro #2

From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg.nul>
Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2004 09:01:17 -0600
Fwd Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2004 11:24:32 -0500
Subject: Jim Mortellaro #2


Time for more embarrassing self-disclosure, folks, but I can't
very well stand still for extremely significant threats serially
communicated to me - and to my family! - by a person acting, in
my opinion, like a piqued and spoiled infant because I refuse to
support him , believing him, or credit, in any way, his
incredulous story!

My opinion is my own, formed from _my_ experience, and is a
result of _personal_ filters - like all of us... - _however_
canted or biased! I won't apologize for it or them!

I could be all wet regarding my position on the verity of the
good doctor! I will; however, express my opinion, sir, madam,
and other entities (or infants!) lurking, and will not be
intimidated by litigious bullies communicating their scurrilous
threats through harried third persons!

Forwarded to me through another party, the following missive
from Doctor Jim Mortellaro is the latest installment in a string
of written intimidations from same, threats of civil action, and
one even trying, in my astonished opinion - also sent through a
third person [and how *intelligent* is that?] - suggests
extortion(!) ...because I'm "off the hook" regarding a costly
civil suit, if I facilitate his business plan by writing a
glowing report for him on UFO UpDates!


Forwarded Message from Dr. Mortellaro follows - my comments
inserted:

-----

>From: Jsmortell.nul
>To: [removed]
>Sent: Sunday, February 08, 2004 1:00 AM
>Subject: Fwd: bufo radio

>'Fraid you won't get any good news from me.

Thing is, Dr. Mortellaro _never_ had any good news - in my
opinion.

>Your friend is spreading his venom to any
>venue he decides is appropriate in which to
>hurt me.

I am expressing an individual opinion on a public List and I
remind the good Doctor that it wasn't "venom" while it was
employed in his service, and all injury in the matter
experienced by same is, and has always been, in my opinion,
largely self-imposed! Moreover, there is no _less_ injury
imposed than the threat of even _specious_ legal action for
daring to speak out in a free society, unfettered by serially
bullying, litigiously intimidating and self-aggrandizing
neo-cons! <imo>

>[name removed] ... this is undeserved.

_That_ would be the good Doctor's opinion.

>With respect, I
>don't think I will take more. Here is proof
>positive of liable.

"Liable" is communication of an 'untruth' as fact. Reasonable
opinions, even expressed publicly, have some protection. "Proof
positive" would appear to be an artful, convenient, and
arbitrary stretch on the Doctor's part.

>He can't afford attorney
>fees, let alone my winning a liable suit.

Doctor Mortellaro is quite correct about that... several years
of suffering persecution for rational/ethical interests
involving UFOs (and abductions) and the lost annual wages that
that implies, _has_ made attorney fees impossible to afford. Set
point, Doctor. But, neither can I afford an obnoxious bully who
would <imo> control my thoughts, threaten my wife and very
critically-ill mother, or try to extort behaviors from me that
hull-breaches my self-respect, despoils my pride, and
compromises my _earned_ integrity! In your _eye_, sir!

>I can handle both. Quite well.

An activity in which, I would predict, the good Doctor has had
no small amount of practice...

>All I need now is proof that he has indeed
>affected my ability to be successful at my
>endeavor, whatever that might be,

Denied, even justifiably, profit in one venue the intrepid
'entrepreneur' will seek another? No one is meant to be
'threatened' or 'intimidated' in the exercise... it's "just
business", after all? Sad that my holdings are burned at
the stake of Dr. Mortellaro's fickle pique and justifiably
deflated pride, but that's the way the "cookie crumbles"?

>...and he
>belongs to me. Lock, stock and home.

"Lock, stock and home..." What would the reader feel upon
receipt of this communication?

It's been ten long years in cyberspace and no one, to _this_ sad
point, had yet threatened to destroy my life, appropriate my
home, and put me out on the street for becoming disenchanted
with him -  and I _am_ disenchanted with him.

It _is_ true that I no longer believe him. It is _fact_ that I
can no longer testify to his verity or provide a quality
reference for him - even under threat of litigation -
_especially_ under threat of litigation! Were I to succumb to
this discomfiting scurrilous intimidation _I_ would become the
unbravery that I decry everywhere else! What would the reader
do?

Can one be sued for refusing to believe?

>He's your friend. In'he?

>Jim Mortellaro

-----

I was the doctor's respectful friend once, his best friend for a
time - a friend that helped him with his health, supported his
assertions, and believed his incredible story. Now I don't.

Consequently, I won't be threatened, intimidated, and bullied
for changing my mind for reasons I find personally compelling.

Sorry Doctor - I suppose you're just going to have to do your
worst... your threats are unconsidered and fatuous, your
intimidations are impertinent and immature, and your juvenile
attitude says a whole lot more about you than it does about me
(in my _opinion_). All three are now public. ...Another bed you
made. Verily.


Lehmberg.nul

EXPLORE "AlienViewGroup" at its HostPros URL.
http://www.alienview.net


JOHN FORD RESTORATION FUND - John will be released eventually.
He'll need a tax free cash stake to get on his feet. Let's put
one together for him; the bigger it is - the more attention
he gets. It could have been you. E-mail for detail.
$450.00 pledged - $200.00 collected!

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite.
What others see from afar, I leave far behind me."
- Giordano Bruno, scourged by the scabrously specious scurrilous.








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   Feb > Feb 8

              Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Bright

From: Dan Bright <ufo.nul>
Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2004 12:59:08 -0000
Fwd Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2004 11:27:54 -0500
Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Bright


Listers:

If anyone wants the exact specifications on the camera used to
take the Whittlesea image (Kodak DC240), the entire manual can
be read online here:

http://tinyurl.com/3fy9o

Best to all,

--
Dan Bright
www.theunexplained.info








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               Re: Tracing The Flow Of The Gulf Breeze Money -

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 08:31:38 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2004 11:31:00 -0500
Subject: Re: Tracing The Flow Of The Gulf Breeze Money -


>From: Kenny Young <ufo.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 02:53:39 -0500
>Subject: Re: Tracing The Flow Of The Gulf Breeze Money

>>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 14:27:40 +0000
>>Subject: Re: Tracing The Flow Of The Gulf Breeze Money

>>If Ed Walters had given money to the Fund (especially in the
>>large sums alleged) for investigation of his photos, I certainly
>>would have known about it. This allegation is flatly untrue. The
>>Fund's financial transactions all are a matter of public record.

>>I am skeptical of Ed Walters and his photos, but not of Bruce
>>Maccabee whom I have know for 40 years since he was a young
>>graduate student volunteering time for NICAP. His integrity is
>>unquestioned. People can disagree about interpretations honestly
>>and honorably without having to impute dishonesty.

>UFO UpDates List folk:

>Jerry Black has a response to the comments by Richard Hall.
>These are his words as I have transcribed by telephone this
>evening -- Kenny

>------

>Mr. Hall;

>I appreciate your comments and your remarks are so noted. I have
>the utmost respect for you and your work in the UFO field.

>In my earlier response, I said the money Ed Walters gave to
>MUFON to support his Gulf Breeze investigation went from
>"either/or" MUFON/FUFOR to Bruce Maccabee. In my statement, I
>said "either/or." However, I take your word that The Fund for
>UFO Research is not involved and did not receive money from Ed
>Walters. The evidence is very clear that Bruce Maccabee received
>the money directly from MUFON given to them by Ed Walters.

What evidence is "very clear"? You have the claim by Vicki Lyons
and Rex Salsbury that Ed paid some money to MUFON. They don't
know how much. (I conjecture that it wasn't much, but I don't
know.) Did Lyons and Salisberry say MUFON then paid me or is
that conjecture on your part? I received no money from MUFON,
although MUFON did cover my expenses to attend the MUFON
symposium in July (MUFON always pays the expenses of the
speakers.) They probably also paid me an honorarium for speaking
(typically $100.00).

>I can understand you having respect for a friend that you have
>known for 40 years. However, the evidence is very clear. Mr.
>Bruce Maccabee may have not have been totally honest when he
>said that he did not know that Ed Walters had given money to
>MUFON for the sole purpose of investigating the Gulf Breeze
>case.

>If Vicky Lyons and Charles Flannagan both had this information,
>it would be illogical to think Mr. Maccabee would not have known
>this. The telephone call between Rex Salisberry and Ed Walters
>affirms that the payment was made and certainly Maccabee should
>have known.

Perhaps Vicki or Rex can also state the amount?

At any rate, I didn't receive any money from MUFON.

Since you have not liked my conclusion that Ed Walters case is
real you are alleging that my conclusion is a result of a large
"payoff" by Walters to me through either MUFON or the FUND. This
is a serious charge which I deny.

Meanwhile, there is the case itself: all of the sightings and
photos, etc. You have presented arguments against the case in
the past but for some reason your arguments have degenerated to
baseless allegations. Where is the UFO science in that?








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   Feb > Feb 8

                       Re: The Beveridge UFO - Warren

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2004 06:06:42 -0800
Fwd Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2004 11:32:39 -0500
Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO - Warren


>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
>To:  ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 23:29:45 -0400
>Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO

>>From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 08:13:39 -0600
>>Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO

>>>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 18:36:22 -0800
>>>Subject: The Beveridge UFO

>>>Oh and by the way - the thingy in the picture was a bug flying
>>>by in close proximity to the camera!

>>Okay, but what kind of bug?

>Yeah? Who decided it was a bug?


Hi Don,

I decided it was a bug, however; to get the "jest" of what I was
saying you would have to read the original post as to not take
the one line shown above out of context.

At any rate , in "my opinion," I "believe" barring further
evidence/data that the object captured digitally in the so-
called "Whittlesea UFO" pic is a flying insect of some sort
"caught in flight" in close proximity to the camera. I've come
to this "hypothetical conclusion" based on my own
"inspection/research" of the pic, along with the data presented
by fellow listers.

Furthermore, I started this thread because it seemed to me that
the original "Whittlesea thread" had become "static," and I felt
it necessary to put some emphasis on the fine work done by those
who chose to take the time and analyze the pic, as well as those
who added their respective observations, (your name was included
of course).

The "expeditious collection, collation, evaluation and
dissemination of the data for the event is exactly what Ufology
needs, only on a larger scale, but certainly in the manner that
was/is performed here by the members of this list.


Warmest Regards,

Frank Warren







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                    Ted Phillips' Physical Traces Update

From: Ted Phillips - I.A.I. <archaeoanom.nul-linc.net>
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 09:49:05 -0600
Fwd Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2004 11:38:36 -0500
Subject: Ted Phillips' Physical Traces Update





                   PHYSICAL TRACES ASSOCIATED
                              WITH
                   UNIDENTIFIED FLYING OBJECTS

                        An Interim Report


                   RESULTS OF PROCESSING DATA

                           1490 - 2004

                         Ted R. Phillips

               CENTER FOR PHYSICAL TRACE RESEARCH
                   archaeoanom.nul-linc.net



INTRODUCTION

This report presents a statistical analysis of data given in
3,059 reports involving observations of anomalous phenomena or
objects on or near the ground resulting in physical residues
generated by the observed phenomena or objects. These
observations took place in 91 countries between 1490 and 2004.

The analysis permits certain regularities of these phenomena to
be brought out. The data indicates there is a certain type of
phenomenon which shows stable statistical properties.

This research began in 1968 and after 36 years it is yet
premature to consider the nature of these phenomena on the basis
of the data presented to date. The developments of methods of
obtaining more reliable data and expansion of the initial
information used will result in a database of the most important
piece of the UFO puzzle - physical evidence.

At this point there seems to be no relation to the more popular
crop circles which are much larger and complex than UFO landing
sites. The current problem is the inclination on the part of
investigators to identify possible landing sites as crop circles
- if it's circular, it must be a crop circle.


SUGGESTED FUTURE RESEARCH

To obtain more definite conclusions, more reliable and detailed
data must be obtained. These events must be well documented and
sampled for laboratory analysis. There needs to be a central
repository for landing/physical evidence events. Currently, the
data is scattered among numerous investigators in many
countries.

A central repository should produce interim reports to be
available to the general public and serious investigators. This
will produce new data and a much more complete database. The
entire database should be available in some form as physical
trace events will give us the most substantial evidence for - or
against - the existence of Unidentified Flying Objects.


Fig. 1 - DISTRIBUTION OF EVENTS BY YEAR

Pre 1900       24 cases       0.78%

1900 - 1939    22 cases       0.72%
1940 - 1949    28 cases       0.92%
1950 - 1959    303 cases      9.91%
1960 - 1969    534 cases     17.46%
1970 - 1979   1109 cases     36.25%
1980 - 1989    498 cases     16.28%
1990 - 1999    435 cases     14.22%
2000 - 2004    106 cases      3.46%


Fig. 2 - PEAK YEAR DISTRIBUTION

1954           105 CASES      3.43%
1969           133 CASES      4.35%
1973           159 CASES      5.20%
1974           125 CASES      4.01%
1975           147 CASES      4.81%
1976           114 CASES      3.73%
1977           119 CASES      3.90%
1979           121 CASES      4.00%
1980           103 CASES      3.37%
TOTALS         1126 CASES    36.80%


Fig. 3 - PEAK TIME DISTRIBUTION
             (local times)

2300           256 cases
2000           251 cases
2100           245 cases
2200           200 cases
0200           142 cases
2400           137 cases
1900           137 cases
0400           124 cases
1700           119 cases
1800            98 cases


Fig. 4 - PEAK  DISTRIBUTION COUNTRIES

United States  979 cases
France         245 cases
Canada         214 cases
Brazil         199 cases
Italy          184 cases
Australia      168 cases
England        168 cases
New Zealand    153 cases
Argentina      122 cases
Venezuela       93 cases
              ----------
              2525 cases


Fig. 5 - PEAK DISTRIBUTION STATES

Missouri        43 cases
Iowa            39 cases
Illinois        38 cases
California      35 cases
Indiana         33 cases


Multiple Witness Events: 40.4% (1,236 cases)

Occupants/Beings Reported:    23.9% (731 cases)
More than one being seen:     63.2% (461 cases)
Being described as small:     57.1% (417 cases)


Fig. 6 - SHAPE DISTRIBUTION OF OBJECTS

Circular          57.2%
Oval              21.2%
Sphere            14.6%
Cylinder/Cigar     6.0%
Various Shapes     1.0%


Fig. 7 - OBJECT COLOR

Metallic          59.6%
Red               11.0%
White             10.1%
Orange-Red         5.5%
Orange             3.7%
Yellow             3.7%
Blue-White         2.8%
Green              2.8%
Gold               0.8%


Fig. 8 - SOUND RELATED TO OBJECT

Sound Heard         9.3%
Whistling          31.1%
Humming            22.6%
Hissing            11.3%
Buzzing            11.1%
Beeping            10.0%
"Electronic"       10.0%
Roaring             4.9%


Graph below indicates the object dimensions as estimated by
witnesses. Dimensions in meters are as follows;

A: one - three              B: four - seven
C: eight - twelve           D: twelve  - sixteen
E: seventeen - twenty-one   F: twenty-two - twenty-five
G: twenty-five +







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   Feb > Feb 8

                         Brazilian National Skywatch

From: Eustaquio Andrea Patounas <socex.nul>
Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2004 13:48:54 -0300
Fwd Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2004 11:50:58 -0500
Subject: Brazilian National Skywatch


The Extraterrestrial Studies Society - SOCEX - have important
news for people interested in the examination and analysis of
the UFO phenomenon.

On Saturday, March 6th, from 8:00 p.m. UTC/GMT until  5:00 a.m.
UTC/GMT Sunday, March 7th, we will looking at the Brazilian sky
in order to identify possible occurrences of UFOs.

We will soon make available, to you all, a celestial map for the
date in question, of the positions of planets, constellations
and other characteristics to help prevent errors of
interpretation.

With this initiative, we intend to build a Brazilian network
with the participation of specialists in extraterrestrial
studies, amateurs and the curious.

Brazil deserves special attention to its pretty sky that
certainly has plenty of visitors from space.

The e-mail:

vigilianacional.nul

is for registration and referred occurrences.


SOCEX
http://socex.net/







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                             Re: Jim Mortellaro

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 19:01:01 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2004 09:58:14 -0500
Subject: Re: Jim Mortellaro


>From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg.nul>
>Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 06:54:22 -0600
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Subject: Jim Mortellaro

>UpDatesFolk --

>Mary Sutherland of BUFO:

>http://www.burlingtonnews.net/listen

>interviewed "famous abductee" Dr. J. Mortellaro at this address
>for around three hours.....

>http://www.buforadio.com/interviews/id7.html

>Dr. Mortellaro wondered allowed at one point why some of the
>abduction community wasn't more supportive of him... I mean...
>he was a "hero" of same, an educated and hyper-intelligent
>talent, a brave man standing tall in the face of overwhelming
>opposition (with regard to evil aliens, persons who have
>'inexplicably' turned on him, crippling responsibilities to an
>ill wife and aging parents, contribution to community, law
>enforcement, and the massive debilitating pain he must
>personally endure every _second_ of his existence... no
>respite). He just "didn't understand" it...


Hello Alfred,

Honestly Alfred, who cares about Mortellaro? Really!

That lying sack was dropped from this E-mail List. Mostly for
using the List _and_ the moderators name to spread slanderous,
malicious lies about me behind my back. And why did he do that?
All because I called him a liar to his face for ripping off -
 word for word - without alteration, experiences that I had
shared on this List and that he now claimed as his own.

Not that any two abductees cannot have the same experiences,
there is just something really sick about a person who will
rip-off the experiences of another. This guy needs serious
psychological help and _you_ know it. Which prompts the
question:

Why are you even mentioning the name of this pariah of a human
being on this List? You _know_ that he cannot respond here.
Aside from the fact that; if I never hear his name again it'll
be too soon, it isn't fair to talk about people who cannot
defend themselves in the same forum in which they are being
indicted.

Let sleeping dogs lie. He's history. If he wants to get
attention for himself let him do it on his own.

The one I feel sorry for is Budd. When the day comes that he
learns he has been fooled, he'll go through the roof. Let
Mortellaro tout his lies without help from any of us.

Alfred, that SOB was a plague to me for three years. I'm really
glad to finally be rid of him. Please, I'm asking you as a
friend, let that rotting corpse continue to mould in the grave
without any of us disturbing the soil.

In hopes that this is the _last_ time I will ever see his name
on this List.


Most sincerely,

John Velez








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                    Harrassment - Has It Happened To You?

From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 11:26:54 EST
Fwd Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2004 12:24:55 -0500
Subject: Harrassment - Has It Happened To You?


Often we read or hear or watch on TV where witnesses to UFO
events, investigators and experiencers mention that they got a
'visit' either by persons posing as government officials or bona
fide government officials. Also stories of shadowy characters
who seem to know more than the average bear.

Since many of you have been in the fight either as researchers,
skeptics, experiencers, has any of you ever been harrassed,
warned or threatened?

How did you handle it?

Is this a real situation or overblown?


Best,

Greg








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                         Re: UFO On Mars? - Lehmberg

From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg.nul>
Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2004 10:34:03 -0600
Fwd Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2004 12:28:30 -0500
Subject: Re: UFO On Mars? - Lehmberg


>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 19:57:58 -0500
>Subject: Re: UFO On Mars?

>>From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 17:31:51 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
>>Subject: Re: UFO On Mars?

<snip>

>>Unlike the object in the Whittlesea Australia UFO photograph, we
>>can almost definitely rule out a flying bird or a bug as an
>>explanation for this spot in the Martian sky! This UFO on Mars
>>can also be clearly seen in the original Spirit Rover picture
>>that is posted at NASA's JPL web site below.

>>http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/2/n/033/2N129300816EFF0327P1730L0M1
.HTML

>It looks like a case of simple 'pixel drop-out' Alfred. I don't
>think anything 'green' with antenae is going to come popping out
>of it any time soon. :)

<snip>

Ordinarily I'd defer to your superior pixelship, John, but damn,
"it don't look like no pixel dropout to me, bruh..." The dropped
pixels I'm familiar with have been non-informational, all black
or white, real holes in the data. There's differentiated gray in
these pixels (of the oh ever so *trusted* NASA original) like in
the rest of the photo, really seeming to be something
photographed in the frame that was there at the time. Could you
have another look at the original, and give me a second bird's-
eye-low-down-on-this-caper? <g>

http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/2/n/033/2N129300816EFF0327P1730L0M1.H
TML


Thanks man,

Lehmberg.nul

EXPLORE "AlienViewGroup" at its HostPros URL.
http://www.alienview.net


JOHN FORD RESTORATION FUND -- John will be released eventually.
He'll need a tax free cash stake to get on his feet. Let's put
one together for him; the bigger it is -- the more attention
he gets. It could have been you. E-mail for detail.
$450.00 pledged -- $200.00 collected!

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite.
What others see from afar, I leave far behind me."
- Giordano Bruno, scourged by the scabrously specious scurrilous.







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                         Re: UFO On Mars? - Lehmberg

From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg.nul>
Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2004 10:42:10 -0600
Fwd Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2004 12:30:44 -0500
Subject: Re: UFO On Mars? - Lehmberg


>From: Terry Groff <terry.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 21:04:10 -0600
>Subject: Re: UFO On Mars?

<snip>

http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/2/n/033/2N129300816EFF0327P1730R0M1.H
TML

>Full Image:

http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/2/n/033/2N129300816EFF0327P1730R0M1.H
TML

>According to the NASA page, both images were taken at 13:39:02
>Mars local solar time.

>Could it be a speck of Martian dust on the left lens?

Jeez, do you think? Wouldn't a lens speck be _way_ out of focus
if that were the case? Not being in both cameras seems pretty
damning, but is it possible that the frame rates were out of
sinc, and one camera was "looking" at a fast mover at an instant
that the other was not? Is that a consideration? Damn startling
photograph, though, huh?


Lehmberg.nul

EXPLORE "AlienViewGroup" at its HostPros URL.
http://www.alienview.net


JOHN FORD RESTORATION FUND -- John will be released eventually.
He'll need a tax free cash stake to get on his feet. Let's put
one together for him; the bigger it is -- the more attention
he gets. It could have been you. E-mail for detail.
$450.00 pledged -- $200.00 collected!

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite.
What others see from afar, I leave far behind me."
- Giordano Bruno, scourged by the scabrously specious scurrilous.








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                          Re: UFO On Mars? - Groff

From: Terry Groff <terry.nul>
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 11:37:55 -0600
Fwd Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2004 13:13:12 -0500
Subject: Re: UFO On Mars? - Groff


>From: Bill Stockstill <size14d.nul>
>To:  ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 21:07:42 -0500
>Subject: Re: UFO On Mars?

>>From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg.nul>
>>Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 04:57:19 -0600
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Subject: UFO On Mars?

>>What the _hell_ is this, then?

>>From, and with no apologies, the Coast to Coast website...
>>mainstream media is _totally_ responsible for driving me into
>>the arms of fringe radio. I'm sure Mr. Rimmer (of Magonia), he
>>of the horrific hologram, would understand that, for all his
>>protestations to the very contrived contrary.

>>http://www.coasttocoastam.com/timages/page/sol33_2.jpg

>That is not the only strange thing in this photo. Check the full
>size NASA photo at:

>http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/2/n/033/2N129300816EFF0327P1730L0M1.
JPG.

>What is that along the upper left edge of the picture? It
>appears to be close to the camera. I guess it could be part of
>the Rover. Anyone know for sure?

Yeah, I noticed that too. I went back to the NASA site and looked
at several of the images taken by the Spirit Rover Navigation
Camera.

http://origin.mars5.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/spirit.html

I noticed that in each horizon image taken by the left camera
you will find the same spot but it is not in any of the images
taken with the right camera.

It could be a speck of dust or pixel dropout but I'm fairly sure
there is no flying object there.


Terry Groff

UFO Tools - http://terrygroff.com/ufotools/








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                 Re: Harrassment - Has It Happened To You? -

From: Joe McGonagle <joe.mcgonagle.nul>
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 18:17:55 -0000
Fwd Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2004 11:39:07 -0500
Subject: Re: Harrassment - Has It Happened To You? -


>From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 11:26:54 EST
>Subject: Harrassment - Has It Happened To You?

<snip>

>Since many of you have been in the fight either as researchers,
>skeptics, experiencers, has any of you ever been harrassed,
>warned or threatened?

>How did you handle it?

>Is this a real situation or overblown?

The only examples that I have personally experienced are those
perpetrated by other 'ufologists'. Veiled threats and oblique
warnings in otherwise friendly conversations, overt threats in
emails, etc.

I also received crank phone calls at odd hours of the night, but
I silenced them by disallowing anonymous calls on my line. I
suspect that these also originated from within the UFO
community.

One person who thought they may have been undergoing an
abduction experience that I was working with also reported
threatening phone calls from someone using a voice processor to
disguise their voice. I am quite certain that I know the person
responsible to have been another investigator (and experiencer)
who was supposed to be helping with the case (if you're reading
this, you know who you are!). In that situation I explained to
the victim who I thought was behind it, and what I based that
accusation on, and advised them to ignore further calls unless
they became a real nuisance. I also conveyed to the person that
I thought was responsible that measures had been taken to
identify the culprit which should produce results on the next
occasion. The calls stopped.

As a general rule of thumb, I suggest ignoring any such
behaviour unless you can identify the culprit, in which case you
should then confront them at a time and place of your choice.
However, some circumstances may require that active attempts to
identify the person responsible are made.


Regards,

Joe








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                      Re: The Beveridge UFO - Stanford

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 13:21:40 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2004 11:41:17 -0500
Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO - Stanford


>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 22:13:12 -0400
>Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO

>>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 12:57:54 -0500
>>Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO - Ledger

>>>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 23:29:45 -0400
>>>Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO

><snip>

>>>Yeah? Who decided it was a bug?

>>I, for one, did, but only after careful image analysis and
>>consideration of a host of other 'possibilities', even though at
>>first glimpse I fancied we might be looking at something less
>>prosaic, like, say, a cartoonist's version of a 'UFO'. I have
>>heard from others on this List who feel the same way.

>>That doesn't mean I expect those who might enjoy perceiving (or
>>have some inner need to perceive) a UFO in the image to agree,
>>however. Everyone has a right to their own perceptive paradigm.

>>In my opinion, however, one who tries to let go of his or her
>>expectations or hopes in analyzing an image and just asks, "What
>>is most likely to have produced that image? What am I really
>>looking at, there?" is far more likely to accurately determine
>>what created an image than anyone with a hope or wish at what
>>might be there.

>>I am, of course, not asking you, Don, or anyone else to
>>necessarily agree with my conclusion about what the image shows,

>Yeah, well what's the reason for the gentle brow beating in the
>2nd and 3rd paragraphs. If you want to argue your case leave the
>"inner need" BS out of it and we can take it from there. I don't
>hang on UFO pics to round out my life, don't have some deep need
>to believe in them. What I have a deep need for is a new
>airplane.

I was not alleging that you "hang on UFO pics to round out" your
life, Don, but making a statement of well established fact, and
you and I and all others involved wouldn't be into UFOs if there
were not some kind of inner need being met there. No insult
intended. It's just a fact of life that we are influenced not
only by what we recognize consciously as our personal interests,
but also what we hold, unconsciously, as important. It's not a
matter of "B.S.", but simply the manner in which the human
perceptual system works. If in doubt, ask Richard Haines, Ph.D.,
a psychologist well appraised concerning the human visual and
perceptual systems in part due to some of the work he did at
Ames before he retired from NASA. If mind bias and perceptual
mechanisms are not involved in your personal 'seeing', then
you're an alien of some sort, as you're surely not human. Human
or not, I wish you a new airplane. :)

And don't talk to me about the fact that humans don't pretty
well see what they want to see in something. I cannot forget the
farmer (and his wife and children) who reported to me that every
night some time after midnight an orange-glowing UFO was coming
down over their field with opened-out landing gear and landing.
He invited me and the project crew to come out the next morning
and watch the landing for ourselves. I accepted and told the
crew not to get their hopes up because if there's one thing UFOs
don't normally do is land night-after-night in the same place.
So we took excellent binoculars along and waited with the
utterly sincere farm family for "the landing". In the wee hours,
the farmer went out (We were enjoying good homemade cookies and
coffee, inside, provided by his wife.) and came back inside
declaring something to the effect that, "They're out there, the
landing gear are opened out, and they are descending." (He had
been watching this through low grade binoculars and a will-to-
 believe mind.)

Well, Don, we went out, saw the planet Jupiter setting in the
west, focused the Bausch & Lomb, high-power binoculars (and a
telescope), and showed the farmer and his family that
the"landing pods" were really the most visible moons of Jupiter.
Being intellectually honest, they agreed that we were right. It
is unrealistic to allege that the mind and unconscious desires
and needs does not play a major part in human perception,
including your own, and whether you realize it or not. That is
especially so when the ratio of signal to noise is quite low, as
in the photo under discussion.

>I've been to your site and Amy's and in your case I've seen
>nothing there to make me believe that this is a bug. I don't see
>legs either.

You're losing your memory or mind, and I trust it's the former
rather than the latter. How can I say that? Simply because I
have no website and no web page. :) I never have had any,
either. But I commend Amy Hebert for her work and agree with her
suggestion as to the most likely cause of the image in the
disputed photo.

>And Amy's method of using a dupe to emmulate a bug does't sit
>well with me either. What you end up with there is a bug created
>by using the outlines of something that might be anomalous. Put
>wings on a pig and it's still a pig with wings.

Don, you simply are not addressing Amy's intention in that
presentation. Maybe you're just being snide or else you do not
understand the function of paradigm creation or modeling in the
scientific process. It does not matter whether sophisticated
software was used to present a model or hand-made art, the model
is only intended as a illustration of a generalized,
hypothetical situation that might have resulted in the image on
the Australian film.

>If she could show me an actual picture of a bug that could
>definitely be proved to be a bug that comes close to matching the
>Beverage UFO, then zip I'm there. Otherwise either way it's just
>a theory and not definitive. But consider this, it only takes a
>few feet of distance to blow your bug out of the picture. I've
>seen no estimate of distance for this bug to show up in the
>picture-and in focus.

Forget it, Don. The bug, object, or whatever, is not in focus,
as Bruce Maccabee has mentioned. It is not image smear, alone,
that makes that image indistinct, as Bruce clearly carefully
explained. So, bug or omnibus alien vehicle, the thing is not in
focus, and that puts some very serious constraints on the
distance that thing could have been from the camera, favoring
the bug hypothesis, as Bruce Maccabee has commented and
carefully explained.

>The camera probably was set for
>infinityand that bug would have been unseen at say 4 feet or
>cloase. out past that and it's getting to be a big bug.

Unseen? Baloney. The aperture was surely small enough that a
nearby buy would not have been optically dissolved into
invisibility. Quite to the contrary!

>>but I trust you understand my plea for an objective examination
>>of what might realistically be the source of the image. I have
>>seen domed, daylight discs and successfully movie-filmed several
>>such objects, so I have no reason to, a priori, reject the
>>possibility that someone else might have photographed one (even
>>if he didn't notice anything unusual). Realistically, however, I
>>must say that the image shown looks to me a heck of a lot more
>>like a unfocused, flying bug (I think I may be able to made out
>>some unfocused images of some of the bug's legs, too) than any
>>domed UFO I have ever seen and filmed, first hand, or accepted
>>as possibly real in seemingly credible photos made by others.

>>Finally, whatever one makes of this photo, both its
>>circumstance (unseen) and the lack of unambiguous image content
>>make it next to useless, or probably utterly useless, in
>>elucidating the 'UFO mystery' in its classical sense.

>That may be. It's a bit amazing don't you think, that these
>things never show up in the proper manner, making it easier to
>determine what they are.

Honestly, Don, do you really think that a bug speeding by near
the camera (in this circumstance) would show up any other way
than a bit distorted by a lack of focus and speed? How could it
be otherwise? Please explain your reasoning there.

The real problem here has nothing to do with the bug, or the
photo, per se. It has to do with our personal concepts of how a
classic UFO should appear and our perception of an ambiguous
image that has some slight resemblance to a cartoonist's concept
of a UFO.

>>Thus, I second the motion of others who have suggested we move
>>on to hopefully more meaningful issues.

>I think this issue will do well enough for me for the time
>being, but that's up to the List and its Moderator. I'd be happy
>knowing for sure in what direction the photographer was facing.
>I don't believe West.

I am confident that the photographer is approximately right
about the direction the camera was pointing, and now that you
mention it, note that you were mistaken on that. Common, Don,
you're too smart a guy to hold onto a simple mistake about the
direction in which the camera was pointing, when the
photographer tells us otherwise.


Every good wish,

Ray Stanford








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                         Re: UFO On Mars? - Lehmberg

From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg.nul>
Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2004 12:26:31 -0600
Fwd Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2004 11:43:03 -0500
Subject: Re: UFO On Mars? - Lehmberg


>From: Terry Groff <terry.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 11:37:55 -0600
>Subject: Re: UFO On Mars?

>>From: Bill Stockstill <size14d.nul>
>>To:  ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 21:07:42 -0500
>>Subject: Re: UFO On Mars?

>>>From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg.nul>
>>>Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 04:57:19 -0600
>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>Subject: UFO On Mars?

>>>What the _hell_ is this, then?

>>>From, and with no apologies, the Coast to Coast website...
>>>mainstream media is _totally_ responsible for driving me into
>>>the arms of fringe radio. I'm sure Mr. Rimmer (of Magonia), he
>>>of the horrific hologram, would understand that, for all his
>>>protestations to the very contrived contrary.

>>>http://www.coasttocoastam.com/timages/page/sol33_2.jpg

>>That is not the only strange thing in this photo. Check the full
>>size NASA photo at:

>http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/2/n/033/2N129300816EFF0327P1730L0M1.
JPG.

>>What is that along the upper left edge of the picture? It
>>appears to be close to the camera. I guess it could be part of
>>the Rover. Anyone know for sure?

>Yeah, I noticed that too. I went back to the NASA site and looked
>at several of the images taken by the Spirit Rover Navigation
>Camera.

>http://origin.mars5.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/spirit.html

>I noticed that in each horizon image taken by the left camera
>you will find the same spot but it is not in any of the images
>taken with the right camera.

>It could be a speck of dust or pixel dropout but I'm fairly sure
>there is no flying object there.


...Same speck in different pictures? But what about the focus
problem? Be that as it may... just when you think you have a
'smoking gun' by the short and curlies... ah well...


Lehmberg.nul

EXPLORE "AlienViewGroup" at its HostPros URL.
http://www.alienview.net


JOHN FORD RESTORATION FUND -- John will be released eventually.
He'll need a tax free cash stake to get on his feet. Let's put
one together for him; the bigger it is -- the more attention
he gets. It could have been you. E-mail for detail.
$450.00 pledged -- $200.00 collected!

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite.
What others see from afar, I leave far behind me."
- Giordano Bruno, scourged by the scabrously specious scurrilous.








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                        Re: UFO On Mars? - McGonagle

From: Joe McGonagle <joe.mcgonagle.nul>
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 18:32:13 -0000
Fwd Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2004 11:49:01 -0500
Subject: Re:  UFO On Mars? - McGonagle


>From: Terry Groff <terry.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 11:37:55 -0600
>Subject: Re: UFO On Mars?

>>From: Bill Stockstill <size14d.nul>
>>To:  ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 21:07:42 -0500
>>Subject: Re: UFO On Mars?

>>>From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg.nul>
>>>Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 04:57:19 -0600
>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>Subject: UFO On Mars?

>>>What the _hell_ is this, then?

<snip>

>Yeah, I noticed that too. I went back to the NASA site and looked
>at several of the images taken by the Spirit Rover Navigation
>Camera.

>http://origin.mars5.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/spirit.html

>I noticed that in each horizon image taken by the left camera
>you will find the same spot but it is not in any of the images
>taken with the right camera.

>It could be a speck of dust or pixel dropout but I'm fairly sure
>there is no flying object there.

Oh Terry, how can you say that! You do realise that now those
desperate to believe that there are little green men on Mars
(the ones that built the face/pyramids/canals etc.) will now
have to invest at least another 30 minutes poring over images to
come up with yet another blur that they can speculate about!

In order to alleviate their lack of proof of little green men, I
should point out that NASA wouldn't publish any images without
checking them first for any such proof.

Also, what evidence is there that any man-made technology has
reached the Mars? After all, we were fooled by the so-called
"Moon Landings" for all those years. Now we know that the Moon
is really made of cheese, I suspect that Mars is also (perhaps
the source of "Red Leicester"?).

Remember, "absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" as
some like to say!


Joe








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                        Re: Jim Mortellaro - Gonzalez

From: Luis R. Gonzalez <lrgm.nul>
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 19:41:42 +0100
Fwd Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2004 11:50:38 -0500
Subject: Re: Jim Mortellaro - Gonzalez


>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 19:01:01 -0500
>Subject: Re: Jim Mortellaro

>>From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg.nul>
>>Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 06:54:22 -0600
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Subject: Jim Mortellaro

>>Mary Sutherland of BUFO:

>>http://www.burlingtonnews.net/listen

>>interviewed "famous abductee" Dr. J. Mortellaro at this address
>>for around three hours.....

>Hello Alfred,

>Honestly Alfred, who cares about Mortellaro? Really!

>The one I feel sorry for is Budd. When the day comes that he
>learns he has been fooled, he'll go through the roof. Let
>Mortellaro tout his lies without help from any of us.

>Alfred, that SOB was a plague to me for three years. I'm really
>glad to finally be rid of him. Please, I'm asking you as a
>friend, let that rotting corpse continue to mould in the grave
>without any of us disturbing the soil.

>In hopes that this is the _last_ time I will ever see his name
>on this List.


John, Alfred,

Just for the record. Are you saying that Budd Hopkins, whose
investugative skills at detecting fraudulent abductees have been
receiving laudatory mentions on another threads in this very
List, is being fooled by Jim Mortellaro about his recent
abduction with surprising medical evidences and even an
independent witness?


Yours,

Luis R. Gonzalez Manso








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                     Re: Review Of Sight Unseen - Miller

From: Stuart Miller <Stuart.Miller4.nul>
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 18:57:52 -0000
Fwd Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2004 11:53:06 -0500
Subject: Re: Review Of Sight Unseen - Miller


>From: John Harney <magonia.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 21:29:44 -0000
>Subject: Re: Review Of Sight Unseen

>>From: Stuart Miller <Stuart.Miller4.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 15:15:43 -0000
>>Subject: Re: Review Of Sight Unseen

>>>From: John Harney <magonia.nul>
>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 20:54:39 -0000
>>>Subject: Re: Review Of Sight Unseen

>>>All Carol Rainey's stuff about scientific advancements is the
>>>sort of thing you can read about in "New Scientist" every week.
>>>It is hardly reasonable to attempt to use it to explain stories
>>>which are unsupported by physical evidence and which are more
>>>rationally explained, or at least described, with reference to
>>>delusions, unusual mental states and distorted memories.

>>Oh this is funny. I take it then that you are dismissing New
>>Scientist as some pop rag filled with Readers Digest style,
>>spoon fed simplistic nonsense. Or something similar. I've no
>>idea where Carol drew her material from but even if by chance,
>>some came from New Scientist or some other similar publication,
>>does that somehow make it invalid? Are you saying New Scientist
>>publishes lies and disinformation?

John

Firstly, thank you for a direct and straight forward reply.
Appreciated.

Just a point I missed from your previous reply. There is plenty
of physical evidence, namely scoop marks on abductees bodies.
I'm guessing you might argue these are self inflicted or from
any other source other than an alien abduction?

>There's nothing wrong with the information in New Scientist as
>far as I know. The point is that it is irrelevant to cases of
>people who believe they are being abducted by aliens, or who are
>persuaded by Hopkins and friends that they are being abducted by
>aliens. Some of these people obviously need the services of
>mental health professionals, rather than having their fantasies
>reinforced by enthusiastic amateurs who develop increasingly
>crazy notions about aliens.

Firstly, it is a little unrealistic of you to wave away
someone's lifetime work simply because they don't have the
appropriate accademic accreditation, for that is what you are
doing with Hopkins.And I seriously doubt he has ever persuaded
anyone that they have been abducted. I am curious myself as to
why I find your writing so irritating and I think it is because
of the dismissive and somewhat haughty tone that is always
there. You may not believe in abductions and think the whole
phenomena is something "American", with all that implies, but to
be as abrupt as you are about this subject is being as unkind to
abductees as you believe Hopkins and his colleagues are also
being.

I disagree with your comments about New Scientist. I would argue
that any publication which might help people understand what has
happened to them has got be useful, whether its got anything to
do with abductions or not..

You make mention above that "Some of these people obviously need
the services of mental health professionals". As you've
qualified it, what then is the position within your framework of
those who claim to have been abducted but who, in your opinion,
don't need psychiatric help? Delusional? Narcisstic? Surely any
adjective you produce is one inclined to imply the individual
needs professional help.

>Either abductions are physical, in which case the military would
>be dealing with them - which does not seem to be happening - or
>they are psychological, and treatment of such cases should be
>left to professionals.

Well, as you strike out the military option, what's left is that
all abductees do indeed need help from professionals. As you're
someone who, as we've already established, seems to hang a great
deal of weight on a person's accademic qualifications, could you
advise what your qualifications are that enable you to make such
a statement with authority? Why should we accept what you say?

What would be even worse John would be if you were to tell us
that you were in the mental health profession yourself. Then
you'd be guilty of making a diagnosis without even talking to
the client. If what you are offering is a non professional
opinion, to which of course you are entitled, then it behoves
you to make that point clear and not present your thoughts as a
done deal.

>I don't aim barbs at those who claim to have been abducted - I
>am concerned about those who exploit them, by sensationalising
>their accounts and claiming that abductions are physically real.

But on that basis John, The Lancet and the rest of them may as
well pack up and shut down if you remove from them the right,
with the client/patient's permission, for contributors to review
unusual or interesting cases. I suspect it's just in the case of
abductions that you would prefer this to be the reality.

>There are many on this list who take a very indulgent attitude
>to such people, but are constantly moaning that mainstream
>science doesn't take ufology seriously.

Let me fill in the blanks. This is because this is a serious
List filled with serious and intelligent people and there should
be no room here for nonsensical gibberish like talk of
abductions. Can I suggest you visit the Virtually Strange Home
page? Unless someone has held a gun to Errol's head, it would
seem that the List Moderator and Site owner doesn't feel the
same way. Would you like to be the one to tell him he needs
professional help? Best of luck.

>I don't know what your problem with Magonia is. No one is forced
>to read it. Those who don't like it can read the glossy UFO mags
>instead, with their exciting stories about the latest cover-up
>conspiracies, developments in anti-gravity propulsion, how the
>space people built the Pyramids, and other such garbage.

Unquestionably John, the tone and laguage in my previous posts
to you neither served me well nor was appropriate for this List,
and I apologise for that. But by way of an extremely small
excuse for my reaction, this last paragraph just about sums it
up. Your level of intollerance beggars belief. Do you have any
respect for other people's ideas and beliefs if they don't
corrspond with yours? Everything is dismissed, just like that. A
wave of the hand, the chain is pulled, and it's all flushed
away. I'm curious to ask just what exactly you do believe in in
relation to the principal subject matter of this List?


Stuart Miller








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                        Re: State Of Ufology - Kaeser

From: Steven Kaeser <steve.nul>
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 14:21:16 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2004 11:55:14 -0500
Subject: Re: State Of Ufology - Kaeser


>From: Ray Dickenson <editor.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2004 00:38:09 +0000
>Subject: Re: State Of Ufology

<snip>

>Some've misunderstood (maybe) "Perceptions" stance on UFOs and
>other phenomena.

>I'm no Ufologist and no policeman, mediaman, psychologist,
>medic, taxman, bureaucrat or lawyer either, but, by standing
>back from nit-picking arguments on primary data (anyway always
>controlled by those in "power"), "Perceptions" has drawn
>conclusions & successfully forecast large-scale national
>corruption and deceptions amongst _all_ those groups. (see
>"perceptions + tax" or "laworjustice" or "beebvbeeb" in Google).

>All "Perceptions" forecasts have eventually been confirmed (so
>far).

>How's it done? - By viewing secondary (emergent) data. Like - a)
>who's taken control of evidence and 'rules'? [that agency is
>always the first subverted by perps] - b) who's _actually_
>controlling cover-ups? [almost never first in line, hidden by
>fronts] - b) who gains from corruption / deceptions? [not always
>immediately apparent].

>And "Perceptions" famously successful forecasts in science area
>come the same way, by abandoning _all_ accepted axioms and
>starting from scratch. Why? Most reported
>experiments/discoveries _didn't_ actually produce the results we
>are told about.

>(see "perceptions + radiation" or "perceptions + experiment +
>michelson" in Google).

>Now you can see - from "Exosci" and "psyche storms" - the UFO
>conclusions (however 'dangerous' they may be).

>As in so many other areas, we're being conned.


Indeed, we all have our perceptions to deal with. But I've
learned, from both sides in this debate that the old "If it
walks like a duck and quacks like a duck then it must BE a duck"
argument isn't something that I'm going to base my belief
structure on (or at least try not to).

One of the facets of this genre that I've found most interesting
is belief structures and how they're developed. It goes both
ways in the genre of ufology, and I believe that few if any take
that limitation into account when they press forward with their
arguments.


Steve








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                          Re: UFO On Mars? - Groff

From: Terry Groff <terry.nul>
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 13:07:11 -0600
Fwd Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2004 11:56:48 -0500
Subject: Re: UFO On Mars? - Groff


>From: Bill Stockstill <size14d.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 21:07:42 -0500
>Subject: Re: UFO On Mars?

>>From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg.nul>
>>Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 04:57:19 -0600
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Subject: UFO On Mars?

>>What the _hell_ is this, then?

>>From, and with no apologies, the Coast to Coast website...
>>mainstream media is _totally_ responsible for driving me into
>>the arms of fringe radio. I'm sure Mr. Rimmer (of Magonia), he
>>of the horrific hologram, would understand that, for all his
>>protestations to the very contrived contrary.

>>http://www.coasttocoastam.com/timages/page/sol33_2.jpg

>That is not the only strange thing in this photo. Check the full
>size NASA photo at:

>http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/2/n/033/2N129300816EFF0327P1730L0M1.
JPG.

>What is that along the upper left edge of the picture? It
>appears to be close to the camera. I guess it could be part of
>the Rover. Anyone know for sure?

>Bill

Yeah, I noticed that too. I went back to the NASA site and
looked at several of the images taken by the Spirit Rover
Navigation Camera.

http://origin.mars5.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/spirit.html

I noticed that in each horizon image taken by the left camera
you will find the same spot but it is not in any of the images
taken with the right camera.

It could be a speck of dust or pixel dropout but I'm fairly sure
there is no flying object there.


Terry Groff

UFO Tools - http://terrygroff.com/ufotools/








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                          Re: UFO On Mars? - Ledger

From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2004 15:28:01 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2004 11:59:08 -0500
Subject: Re: UFO On Mars? - Ledger


>From: Terry Groff <terry.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 21:04:10 -0600
>Subject: Re: UFO On Mars?

>>From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg.nul>
>>Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 04:57:19 -0600
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Subject: UFO On Mars?

>>What the _hell_ is this, then?

>>From, and with no apologies, the Coast to Coast website...
>>mainstream media is _totally_ responsible for driving me into
>>the arms of fringe radio. I'm sure Mr. Rimmer (of Magonia), he
>>of the horrific hologram, would understand that, for all his
>>protestations to the very contrived contrary.
>>http://www.coasttocoastam.com/timages/page/sol33_2.jpg

>That image comes from the Left navigation camera of the Spirit
>Rover:

>http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/2/n/033/2N129300816EFF0327P1730L0M1.
HTML

>Full Image:

>http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/2/n/033/2N129300816EFF0327P1730L0M1.
JPG

>It definitely has a spot in it however the Right Camera image has
>no such object:

>http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/2/n/033/2N129300816EFF0327P1730R0M1.
HTML

>Full Image:

>http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/2/n/033/2N129300816EFF0327P1730R0M1.
HTML

>According to the NASA page, both images were taken at 13:39:02
>Mars local solar time. Could it be a speck of Martian dust on
>the left lens?


If that spot keeps showing up on the left camera's pictures,
it's likely a dead sensor in the camera's CCD.

Best,

Don Ledger









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                       Re: The Beveridge UFO - Ledger

From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2004 16:05:22 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2004 12:19:41 -0500
Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO - Ledger


>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2004 06:06:42 -0800
>Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO

<snip>

>Yeah? Who decided it was a bug?


>Hi Don,

>I decided it was a bug, however; to get the "jest" of what I was
>saying you would have to read the original post as to not take the
>one line shown above out of context.

>At any rate , in "my opinion," I "believe" barring further
>evidence/data that the object captured digitally in the so- called
>"Whittlesea UFO" pic is a flying insect of some sort "caught in
>flight" in close proximity to the camera. I've come to this
>"hypothetical conclusion" based on my own "inspection/research" of
>the pic, along with the data presented by fellow listers.

>Furthermore, I started this thread because it seemed to me that the
>original "Whittlesea thread" had become "static," and I felt it
>necessary to put some emphasis on the fine work done by those who
>chose to take the time and analyze the pic, as well as those who
>added their respective observations, (your name was included of
>course).

>The "expeditious collection, collation, evaluation and dissemination
>of the data for the event is exactly what Ufology needs, only on a
>larger scale, but certainly in the manner that was/is performed here
>by the members of this list.


Hi Frank,

I'm assuming that you decided for yourself and to your own
satisfaction that the Beveridge or Whittlesea object was a bug.
I on the other hand have not, as yet, been satisfied that this
is indeed a bug or a bird. One of the reasons I don't like to
blow this shot off is due to the very nature of the "gaseous
appearing" envelope surrounding the object. Much can be learned
from ordinary jet's exhausts of the aircraft's performance and I
believe that there is something to the aura surrounding some UFO
photos. Rather than being out of focus perhaps this is some by-
product of it's power source. I made mention of this to Errol on
SDI Saturday evening. I'm sure there are some out there that can
make much of that aura by measuring light intensity, spectrum
and what have you. What does it look like in infrared for
example? How is the envelope refracting or filtering light
passing through it?

Since we now have the specs on the Kodak camera that was used we
know that if it was a bug it had to be approximately 20 inches
away or slightly closer to the lens of the camera for that level
of detail to show up.

Again, I'm curious about this as a possible piece of the puzzle,
not as Ray suggests, that I'm  loath to give it up because I (..
have some inner need to perceive).

Those who know me, know better.


Best,

Don Ledger









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                       Re: The Beveridge UFO - Ledger

From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2004 16:05:22 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2004 12:22:41 -0500
Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO - Ledger


>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2004 06:06:42 -0800
>Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO

<snip>

>>Yeah? Who decided it was a bug?


>I decided it was a bug, however; to get the "jest" of what I was
>saying you would have to read the original post as to not take the
>one line shown above out of context.

>At any rate , in "my opinion," I "believe" barring further
>evidence/data that the object captured digitally in the so- called
>"Whittlesea UFO" pic is a flying insect of some sort "caught in
>flight" in close proximity to the camera. I've come to this
>"hypothetical conclusion" based on my own "inspection/research" of
>the pic, along with the data presented by fellow listers.

>Furthermore, I started this thread because it seemed to me that the
>original "Whittlesea thread" had become "static," and I felt it
>necessary to put some emphasis on the fine work done by those who
>chose to take the time and analyze the pic, as well as those who
>added their respective observations, (your name was included of
>course).

>The "expeditious collection, collation, evaluation and dissemination
>of the data for the event is exactly what Ufology needs, only on a
>larger scale, but certainly in the manner that was/is performed here
>by the members of this list.


Hi Frank,

I'm assuming that you decided for yourself and to your own
satisfaction that the Beveridge or Whittlesea object was a bug.
I on the other hand have not, as yet, been satisfied that this
is indeed a bug or a bird. One of the reasons I don't like to
blow this shot off is due to the very nature of the "gaseous
appearing" envelope surrounding the object. Much can be learned
from ordinary jet's exhausts of the aircraft's performance and I
believe that there is something to the aura surrounding some UFO
photos. Rather than being out of focus perhaps this is some by-
product of it's power source. I made mention of this to Errol on
SDI Saturday evening. I'm sure there are some out there that can
make much of that aura by measuring light intensity, spectrum
and what have you. What does it look like in infrared for
example? How is the envelope refracting or filtering light
passing through it?

Since we now have the specs on the Kodak camera that was used we
know that if it was a bug it had to be approximately 20 inches
away or slightly closer to the lens of the camera for that level
of detail to show up.

Again, I'm curious about this as a possible piece of the puzzle,
not as Ray suggests, that I'm  loath to give it up because I (..
have some inner need to perceive).

Those who know me, know better.


Best,

Don Ledger









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                      Re: Review Of Sight Unseen - Pope

From: Nick Pope <nick.nul>
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 20:10:52 -0000
Fwd Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2004 12:24:06 -0500
Subject: Re: Review Of Sight Unseen - Pope


>From: Luis R. Gonzalez <lrgm.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 17:25:48 +0100
>Subject: Re: Review Of Sight Unseen

>>From: Nick Pope <nick.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 00:56:58 -0000
>>Subject: Re: Review Of Sight Unseen

>>I'm not sure that Budd Hopkins has claimed to have a sure-fire
>>way of checking the veracity of witnesses. What I have heard him
>>say previously is that he has some techniques to smoke out
>>witnesses who are confabulating, or making up stories that they
>>think he wants to hear.

>All this would be perfect if he somehow had calibrated his
>techniques. Unfortunately, even when I asked publicly, I have
>never read any example of an "IFO abduction", if you get what I
>mean.

>I do not trust any UFO investigator who, at least, had not
>discovered after investigation that 50% of his UFO cases are
>IFO. Curiosuly, not a single US abduction researcher has ever
>publicly recognized to have found a trivial explanation for an
>abduction he had spent time investigating.

I think it's much more difficult to make such assessments about
abduction reports. With UFO sightings, a prosaic explanation
will often be obvious, especially if an investigator can
correlate the sighting with known aerial activity. The files of
Project Blue Book and the UK Ministry of Defence's UFO project
suggest that around 95% of UFO sightings can be explained in
conventional terms, or are cases where insufficient data exist
to make a reliable assessment.

I certainly wouldn't dispute that a proportion of abduction
accounts can be explained in terms of mental disorders or
hoaxes. Others are probably attributable to hypnagogic or
hypnopompic hallucinations, or a combination of vivid dreams and
sleep paralysis. Other theories include Lawson and McCall's
birth trauma hypothesis, or the idea that some accounts could be
distorted memories of childhood sexual abuse. But these last two
theories are themselves controversial and unproven.

So let's take a couple of examples. Take a witness who sees a
large, white, slow-moving, cigar-shaped object over a city a few
miles away. An investigator ascertains that at that precise time
and location, a blimp was flying over a football stadium. You
can be virtually certain that you have your explanation. But now
consider a person, with no apparent sign of mental disorder, who
comes to you with a detailed abduction narrative. I think it's
much harder to assess and categorise such cases in the way that
one can do with UFO sightings.

<snip>

>>I acknowledge that this is frustrating for other researchers. A
>>similar debate rages over symbols reported by some abductees.
>>Budd has a large database of such symbols and is often urged to
>>publish the data. But he deliberately withholds this information
>>so that he can use it as a way of cross-checking witness
>>testimony. It would clearly be very interesting if different
>>abductees reported having seen the same symbols, provided Budd
>>could be sure that there had been no collusion. The moment the
>>data are in the public domain, this technique would be invalid.

>Well, one thing is to withhold data as a way of cross-checking,
>and other quite different, to sit on it for many years, without
>ever saying anything. After more than 25 years of
>investigations, surely he should be able to answer a simple
>question:

>Has he ever found at least 3 independent abductees (ideally,
>from 3 different investigators) who describe at least 4
>identical complex symbols?

That's a question for Budd, of course, and I don't know the
answer. I'm guessing he hasn't had convincing evidence of
this, on the basis that if he had, he would presumably say so,
with a view to strengthening his case for the reality of alien
abductions.

However, the problem here is the phrase in my original post:

"provided Budd could be sure that there had been no collusion".

Even if abductees who have apparently had no previous contact
with each other reported having seen similar symbols during an
abduction experience, it isn't possible to be certain that there
has been no collusion. Neither could anyone prove that abductees
reporting symbols had not come across them before, on the
internet, or elsewhere in the public domain.

My guess is that Budd feels the benefits of withholding the data
(so he can check newly-reported symbols against ones in his
files) outweigh the benefits of publishing the database.
Researchers working with abductees will have to make up their
own minds on this tricky issue.

>There are literally thousands of pages of alleged alien
>writings, many of them publicly known, so I am not asking too
>much.

As you say, there's a lot of material on this in the public
domain. A Google search on the phrase "alien symbols" will point
researchers to data on this. Much can be found at the abduct.com
website, where links to several galleries of such symbols can be
accessed from the homepage:

http://www.abduct.com

Best wishes,

Nick Pope








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             Re: Ted Phillips' Physical Traces Update - Stanford

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 15:48:59 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2004 12:26:57 -0500
Subject: Re: Ted Phillips' Physical Traces Update - Stanford


>From: Ted Phillips - I.A.I. <archaeoanom.nul-linc.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 09:49:05 -0600
>Subject: Ted Phillips' Physical Traces Update


>                  PHYSICAL TRACES ASSOCIATED
>                             WITH
>                  UNIDENTIFIED FLYING OBJECTS

>                       An Interim Report

>                  RESULTS OF PROCESSING DATA

>                          1490 - 2004

>                        Ted R. Phillips

>              CENTER FOR PHYSICAL TRACE RESEARCH
>                  archaeoanom.nul-linc.net


<snip>

Hi Ted,

Is there some way we can access this interesting report in a
more detailed or complete form -- on-line, in print, or however?

If it is available in print, please appraise us of the cost and
how to order.

Your dedicated work on trace cases over several decades is very
much appreciated, Ted.


Thanks,

Ray Stanford

"You know my method. It is founded upon the observance of
trifles." -- Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery








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              Re: Harrassment - Has It Happened To You? - Pope

From: Nick Pope <nick.nul>
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 21:38:50 -0000
Fwd Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2004 12:28:10 -0500
Subject: Re: Harrassment - Has It Happened To You? - Pope


>From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 11:26:54 EST
>Subject: Harrassment - Has It Happened To You?

>Often we read or hear or watch on TV where witnesses to UFO
>events, investigators and experiencers mention that they got a
>'visit' either by persons posing as government officials or bona
>fide government officials. Also stories of shadowy characters
>who seem to know more than the average bear.

>Since many of you have been in the fight either as researchers,
>skeptics, experiencers, has any of you ever been harrassed,
>warned or threatened?

>How did you handle it?

>Is this a real situation or overblown?

Greg,

I'll give you a slightly different perspective on this, in that
I've worked on the UK Ministry of Defence's UFO project, and
have had it put to me that my predecessors and I have engaged in
such activities.

I don't deny that there are some witnesses in the UK who have
received visits from military or Ministry of Defence personnel.
This doesn't tend to happen now, but did in the past, as part of
the investigative process into sightings.

I wouldn't rule out the possibility that some witnesses were
asked not to talk about their sightings, but I don't think this
is necessarily as sinister as it sounds. Particularly in the
Fifties and Sixties, I suspect this was a natural consequence of
the Cold War mentality and the prevailing culture of secrecy. A
firm request not to discuss matters may have been misconstrued
as a threat, especially in the case of members of the public who
had not had previous dealings with the military.

There's another issue to factor in. There have been numerous
incidents involving bogus paramedics and ambulance staff, social
workers, priests, military personnel, etc. In some cases the
deception has been carried out for monetary or sexual reasons.
But in other cases, we seem to be dealing with a form of mental
disorder. I hesitate to use the phrase 'Walter Mitty', but
believe it may be appropriate in this instance. If some people
derive gratification from pretending to be paramedics, is it not
understandable that others may enjoy pretending to be with a
government agency whose job it is to suppress information about
UFOs? Films like Men in Black probably don't help here.

And I wouldn't entirely rule out the possibility that some
people might go to see a witness they'd heard about in the
media, pretending to be from a government agency, in order to
extract information.

I realise that my comments are unlikely to be appreciated by
all, but would like to assure List members that I have not been
involved in harassing UFO witnesses, and am unaware of any
instances where my predecessors or successors have done so.


Best wishes,

Nick Pope








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             Re: Ted Phillips' Physical Traces Update - Friedman

From: Stan Friedman <fsphys.nul>
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 18:59:13 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2004 12:30:14 -0500
Subject: Re: Ted Phillips' Physical Traces Update - Friedman


>From: Ted Phillips - I.A.I. <archaeoanom.nul-linc.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 09:49:05 -0600
>Subject: Ted Phillips' Physical Traces Update


>                   PHYSICAL TRACES ASSOCIATED
>                              WITH
>                   UNIDENTIFIED FLYING OBJECTS

>                        An Interim Report

>                   RESULTS OF PROCESSING DATA

>                           1490 - 2004

>                         Ted R. Phillips

>               CENTER FOR PHYSICAL TRACE RESEARCH
>                   archaeoanom.nul-linc.net



We need the graph that wasn't included at the end of this very
important work... size distribution


STF







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                         Re: UFO On Mars? - Stanford

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 18:04:58 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2004 12:32:10 -0500
Subject: Re: UFO On Mars? - Stanford


>From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2004 10:34:03 -0600
>Subject: Re: UFO On Mars?

>>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 19:57:58 -0500
>>Subject: Re: UFO On Mars?

>>>From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul>
>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 17:31:51 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
>>>Subject: Re: UFO On Mars?

><snip>

>>>Unlike the object in the Whittlesea Australia UFO photograph, we
>>>can almost definitely rule out a flying bird or a bug as an
>>>explanation for this spot in the Martian sky! This UFO on Mars
>>>can also be clearly seen in the original Spirit Rover picture
>>>that is posted at NASA's JPL web site below.

>>http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/2/n/033/2N129300816EFF0327P1730L0M1
.HTML

>>It looks like a case of simple 'pixel drop-out' Alfred. I don't
>>think anything 'green' with antenae is going to come popping out
>>of it any time soon. :)

><snip>

>Ordinarily I'd defer to your superior pixelship, John, but damn,
>"it don't look like no pixel dropout to me, bruh..." The dropped
>pixels I'm familiar with have been non-informational, all black
>or white, real holes in the data. There's differentiated gray in
>these pixels (of the oh ever so *trusted* NASA original) like in
>the rest of the photo, really seeming to be something
>photographed in the frame that was there at the time. Could you
>have another look at the original, and give me a second bird's-
>eye-low-down-on-this-caper? <g>

>http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/2/n/033/2N129300816EFF0327P1730L0M1.
HTML


Hello Alfred,

Although you did not inquire of my opinion, I would like to say
that you are quite observant and, I believe, correct. That thing
does not seem to be pixel drop-out, and whatever is there
appears to show atmospherics (gray gradients) commensurate with
other distant horizon and near-horizon landforms.

As to the 'problem' of the other stereo pair not showing the
'whatzzit', perhaps I read somewhere that these are not
isochronus (taken at the same time) stereo pairs but
'artificial' stereo pairs, possibly made by a common lens merely
shifting its position or some other such arrangement, perhaps to
save the weight of a second lens system. That could account for
a 'UFO', for example, not showing up in a so-called stereo pair.
Someone might want to check on the accuracy of my memory on
that, however. I forget where that was said or I'd provide a
link. If someone wanted to think in a rather suspicious vein,
one might actually consider that the JPL 'stereo pairs' could be
deliberately be non-isochronus (simultaneous) in order (in the
event that an unmentionable something should show up) to say
(while hoping people presume that they are simultaneous), that,
"It's not real or it would be in both stereo images." I'm not
saying that's what is happening, but I wouldn't put it past
them.

I have what looks like a different image from that same part of
the horizon and taken in the same general time period that shows
a somewhat similar but more diffused object, phenomenon, or
effect, but, if I recall correctly, somewhat over to the right.
It was one of the first black and white photos released from the
first of the two landings, if not the first.

As to that dark thing at the upper-left image edge in several
photos, it seemingly shows no gray-level variances, unlike the
image discussed above.

Thanks for your input, Alfred. We've "looked at it from both
sides now", to paraphrase an old song about clouds. And this
matter may be worthy of a longer, harder look, as well.

Finally, it seems to me that the disputed near-horizon image,
aside from seemingly showing atmospherics, is comprised of
multiple pixels on multiple lines and might be interpreted as
showing something that could have radial symmetry around a
vertical axis, with a possibly conical or tapered shape on the
upper side along that axis. In fact, and although the image is
vague, it reminds me of objects reported in several multi-
witness, close-range UFO sightings which I have kept on file. Of
course, we humans tend to perceive ambiguous things according to
our preconceptions and/or inner tendencies (presumably an
evolutionary adaptation for survival through early recognition
of dangerous or even potentially rewarding situations). So, I
hedge that visual interpretation with great caution and mention
it only as a tentative interpretation of what might be there.**
[Of one thing I feel confident, Don Leger, this particular image
is not a bug, even though some may differ. :) ]


Ray Stanford

**In memory of my beloved eldest brother, Clinton, who
unexpectedly passed into the 'hereafter' a week ago tonight, and
who wisely taught me, again and again, as a child to, "Believe
none of what you hear and only half of what you see." Maybe
that's why (after a few 'false starts') I eventually chose
cameras, magnetometers, and a gravimeter, etc. with which to
pursue UFOs as physical phenomena in 'real time' and not only as
history (i.e., as reports). Hopefully, none will be offended if
in this context I say, "Thanks, Clinton. You are deeply missed,
and your gentleness and good humor were a light to our whole
family and to all who knew you well."








   UFO UpDates
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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   Feb > Feb 9

               Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Hatch

From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2004 16:29:17 -0800
Fwd Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2004 12:33:49 -0500
Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Hatch


>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
>To:  ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 13:35:02 -0400
>Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph

>>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 06:12:10 -0800
>>Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph

> <snip>

>>I'm still trying to fix the position of the Sun, believe it or
>>not, with respect to the objects in the famous photo.

>Yeah I keep bleating away about this problem with the light and
>time versus the direction in which the camera was pointing.
>Something doesn't add up if the time stated for the photo taken,
>is correct.

>Again Larry... a bug? Why? In another thread I've addressed
>"the-UFO- photos-captured-which-the-photographer-didn't-see"
>question. Whether the photographer saw the object or not, is not
>a real issue-nor a reason to discount the photograph. Consider
>the speed of the object and the picture through a viewfinder.
>Remember most amateur photographers don't use the viewfinder on
>a digital camera, they use the little 1.5 inch screen. I defy
>anyone to notice an object on that screen the size of this
>thing. particularly if it's moving too fast to see.

>Remember, radar can't see the B-2B bomber but that doesn't mean
>it's not there. To quote Stan Friedman. "I've never seen Tokyo,
>but I'm positive it exists."

>The ambiguity of the human eye [and the brain that processes the
>information] cuts in both directions.


Hi Don:

By now I hope you have seen Dan Bright's color-modified images
here:

http://zaziork.com/astrobservation/whittlesea_image_analysis.htm

[Thanks Dan]

To my untrained eye, and allowing for the cautions Dan made
regarding altered colors, it looks more and more like a flying
insect (note the wings) and less like the domed saucer shape I
thought I had made out earlier.

What it doesn't look like (to me) is a bird.

It could be one thing disguised to look like another, but I
think that's stretching things.


Best wishes

- Larry









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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
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             Re: Harrassment - Has It Happened To You? - Hebert

From: Amy Hebert <vanguard.nul>
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 20:30:52 -0600
Fwd Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2004 12:36:55 -0500
Subject: Re: Harrassment - Has It Happened To You? - Hebert


>From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 11:26:54 EST
>Subject: Harrassment - Has It Happened To You?

>Often we read or hear or watch on TV where witnesses to UFO
>events, investigators and experiencers mention that they got a
>'visit' either by persons posing as government officials or bona
>fide government officials. Also stories of shadowy characters
>who seem to know more than the average bear.

>Since many of you have been in the fight either as researchers,
>skeptics, experiencers, has any of you ever been harrassed,
>warned or threatened?

>How did you handle it?

>Is this a real situation or overblown?

Hi, Greg:

Now that you mention it....

(I will have to do this in two-parts because it is such a long
story)

On June 7, 1997, around 9:50pm, I walked into my back yard to
calm my two dogs who were going absolutely berserk barking at
something behind our house. I then saw something in the sky to
the west that looked like a crescent moon but was definitely
_not_ the moon (long story). About fifteen minutes after it
finally disappeared from it's position behind my house, two
people 106 miles south of my location saw the exact same thing
_and_ saw two smaller, shiny, cigar-shaped objects go into it
before it descended into the field below.

I posted my sighting to a UFO List I (not UFO Updates), left a
report on the NUFORC answering machine and called the FAA, the guy
only laughed. But what I saw that night changed my life forever.

(I don't call this harrassment but @ 22 hours after I first
contacted and interviewed the other two witnesses, two large
charcoal-colored airplanes followed by a helicopter with a dark-
tented canopy flew real low over my house - shook the windows,
circled then the helicopter circled and landed, circled and
landed at the exact spot where the object was that I saw on June
7th. After they left, I called the other witnesses and before I
could say a word, the witness said a helicopter had just circled
their house and the area several times.)

About 3 weeks later on June 26, 1997, I received an E-mail from
a guy who claimed to work for the federal government - "OSI" -
 asking me to call his office in Langley, Va. He also wrote to
the other two people who saw the same or similar object that I
saw on June 7th and told them he was with the OSI and wanted to
talk to them. What was unusual was that the only place I posted
my sighting was completely separate from the list where the
couple had their report posted. Only one person had contacted me
about my sighting prior to this "OSI" guy. In other words, no
one seemed to care about what we saw and most people dismissed
as a misidentification.

I wrote the "OSI" guy back saying that I doubted he was with the
OSI and he would have to prove it. He then wrote back giving me
a brief bio about himself, gave me his phone number and again
asked me to call him at his office and said to ask for "agent
Eddie Thomas" (he also signed with the name "Edward Page" in one
of our correspondences). I called the operator and she told me
the area code indicated a number in Oklahoma. I then called the
number, got an answering machine with some kind of rock music
and what sounded like a teenager telling me to leave a message.
I died laughing.

I E-mailed "Mr. Thomas" and told him I was very busy and didn't
have time for his little games. He replied that the number I
called was his home number but his office was in Langley, Va. He
said that if necessary he could have me "completely checked out"
and gather any information he wanted about me. This, of course,
ticked me off so I just ignored his letters after that. (I
advised the other two witnesses to let me handle him because he
sounded like a joker.)

Mr. Thomas kept E-mailing me asking me to call him and he wanted
to arrange an "interview" with me - in person. He was nicer in
his subsequent letters but quite persistent. Finally, I figured
"what-the-hell" and called him just to get him out of my face.
This time he answered the phone and we talked. He was nice
enough on the phone but I thought he seemed to talk more about
what _he_ knew about UFO's than ask me questions about my
sighting and what the couple had seen. We made an appointment to
meet at a restaurant in my town a week later and I would show
him where I saw the object (I planned to take him to the field
near my house but not to my house and take a friend for
protection because I didn't know this guy).

Not once did I believe Mr. Thomas was who he claimed to be. I
only agreed to meet with him because I am friendly and it seemed
so important to him. As I expected, Mr. Thomas E-mailed me a few
days before our scheduled meeting and said he could not keep our
appointment and would contact me when he returned from wherever
it was he had to go. I never heard back from him.

About two years later, I came across his E-mails while cleaning
out my files so I wrote to him and asked how he was doing. I
told him, again, I never believed he was with the OSI and I knew
he was going to cancel our appointment. To my surprise, he
answered still claiming he was with the OSI working and
traveling a lot. We corresponded for a while but he continued to
insist he was an agent with the OSI. (I found his character
interesting and the psychotherapist side of me wanted to
understand why people pretend to be something they are not.)

About every year or so I would contact Mr. Thomas just to see
what he was up to. He eventually moved to a town in Texas and
told me he was writing a movie script and opening up his own
movie studio and still insisted he worked for the OSI..

One time I wrote and asked him to send me his employee ID number
and fax me a copy of his employment ID (as he had offered to do
in one of our correspondences). As to be expected, he replied
that "internal policies" required the information be kept
private or it would get him in trouble. I finally gave up and
forgot about the "OSI" guy. Never did get him to tell the truth
but it was an interesting study.

One day, in response to something I had mentioned on the UFO Updates
list about an encounter with an "OSI" guy, a subscriber contacted me
wanting to know more about my experiences with this individual (I will
not specify this person in public because he is still on this list and
I admire and respect him). He-who-must-not-be-named (henceforth
referred to as 'Nameless') asked me all
kinds of questions which I answered to the best of my abilities.
Luckily, I had saved all my correspondences with the OSI guy so I sent
copies of these to 'Nameless'.

After reviewing my answers, 'Nameless' said it appeared that I had
been contacted by the _same_ individual that he and another person had
been investigating for years, since 1997. As it turned out, my "OSI"
guy was contacting others around the same time he began contacting me
in June, 1997 - only with a different story. After comparing notes,
'Nameless' said
that not only did the names used by this individual match the names
given
to the other person involved in his investigation ("Edward Page" and
"Eddie Thomas" - publicly available), the phone number given to me by
Mr.Thomas/Page matched the phone number given to the other person by
the
same Mr.Thomas/Page (not made public).

After corresponding for a while, 'Nameless' asked me
to keep the "Page situation" confidential until they obtained more
information and the other person had decided on a course of action. I
responded,

"I promise to keep the situation confidential until we obtain more
information and some course of action is decided upon, acted upon and
Mr. Page is reported and stopped. I can't promise to keep quiet
forever because people need to be warned about those like Mr. Page and
told the truth. If "friend of Nameless" takes care of it, fine. But
if he avoids setting the record straight, I will not be part of any
cover-up or lie."

I was already writing an article describing my encounters with
the "OSI guy" and my own subsequent investigation I planned to
share with the public long before 'Nameless' first contacted me.
Although I didn't think anyone would really care, I wanted to
warn others about people like Mr. Thomas/Page and alert the
public to these types of hoaxers. Due to 'Nameless's request, I
decided to put off releasing my article for a while.

From June 4, 2002 to October 3, 2002, 'Nameless' and I continued
to correspond. I began to feel like the truth about this
situation might never be told and became concerned that the
other person involved in the investigation might have more to
lose than gain by going public with the truth and might be
trying to bury it.

I asked if either 'Nameless' or his friend had ever contacted
the OSI about this guy to ask questions or report this guy. I
also asked 'Nameless' if they had reported Mr. Thomas/Page to
the authorities for impersonating an OSI agent. 'Nameless'
replied that it would be "first on the list".  I asked
'Nameless' this question again several months later and he
replied, "Not as of yet."

In August, 2002, in the course of my own investigation, I
contacted the OSI office in Hampton, Va. (actual location for
the OSI office of Langley. Va.). I asked the guy who answered
the phone who I needed to talk to about an individual who had
contacted me in June, 1997 claiming to be an "OSI agent"? Since
he wasn't sure what I was talking about, I briefly told him
about my encounter with the "OSI guy" who had E-mailed me from
an AOL address. The fact that Mr. Thomas had been E-mailing me
from an AOL address (the OSI uses AOL?) seemed most amusing to
him but he was very nice. He then put me on hold and transferred
me to someone who gave his name as "Special Agent -----------".

Again, I explained my encounter with Mr. Thomas/Page who had
sent E-mails using AOL claiming he was an OSI agent. I asked if
a Mr. Eddie or Edward Thomas or an Eddie or Edward Page had ever
been employed by or worked for his office and he said he'd never
heard of him. He then explained that they do not investigate
such claims (of people impersonating OSI agents) in his office
and referred me to the FBI. At that point, after telling the
story twice, I began to feel quite foolish for going that far in
investigating Mr. Thomas' outrageous claims.

It had barely been one year since 9-11 and here I was taking up
the time of these fine federal employees who had terrorists and
other threats to our country to deal with. I called the FBI and
they gave me the number of the office to call that handles
people like Mr. Thomas but I never called it. Mr. Thomas was,
afterall, nothing but a two-bit hoaxer and hardly worth _my_
time let alone the OSI or FBI's time.

Five years after the encounter with the "OSI" guy, 'Nameless'
and his friend were _still_ investigating. The friend of
'Nameless' had published his story on the internet leading
others to believe the OSI goes around 'contacting' and
'watching' UFO researchers and investigators. With increasing
suspicion, I wrote to 'Nameless' and asked him why his friend,
knowing what he knew about Mr. Thomas/Page continued to make his
story and video available on the internet. 'Nameless' replied,

"There is nothing questionable about the data, only about the
individual's motives that instigated the event! Moreover, when
this ordeal comes to its conclusion, and if it proves to be a
100% hoax, very little changes will have to be made to the "----
-------- video" if _____________ continues to offer it to the
public. Personally, I believe that the "------------"
information is important to Ufology either way."

'Nameless' went on to describe his friend's upstanding moral
character and how much mental anguish he had suffered as a
result of his encounters with Mr. Thomas/Page. At the end of his
letter, 'Nameless' finally told me to contact his friend
directly.  After 5 months, I still had not been contacted by the
other person involved in the 'investigation'. All correspondence
had been routed through 'Nameless' to his friend and from his
friend back to me.

I wrote to the other person involved in the 'investigation' on
November 3, 2002. I introduced myself and indicated that he
should already know me through my correspondences with
'Nameless'. The friend of 'Nameless' replied that he didn't know
me but only knew "of" me through 'Nameless'.? From there, he
went on and on about our experiences with the same person being
completely different, how displeased he was that I would
question his motives for not coming forth with the truth (yet
continued to post his story on the internet - with accompanying
video), and since I wasn't there during his 'encounters' with
the OSI guy, I had no right to make assumptions about how the
truth should be handled.

The friend of 'Nameless' also made it quite clear that he had
copyrighted his story with the Library of Congress and anyone
using any portion of his story as described in his 2-hour video
or as posted on his web site would be violating copyright laws
and subject to the consequences of such copyright laws by using
any part of it without his permission.

However, this friend of 'Nameless' holds no copyrights to MY
story nor can he copyright the truth. No one owns the truth, it
belongs to all.

I asked the friend of 'Nameless' if we could cooperate and write
an article together detailing what we had learned about Mr.
Thomas/Page so he could never do to others what he had done to
us. The friend of 'Nameless' said he planned to make everything
public when his investigation was complete but he wasn't there
yet. Repeatedly, this friend of 'Nameless' emphasized that he
_still_ didn't know for certain that it was all a hoax. And his
explanation for keeping his original story and video available
on the internet was,

"Of over 2000 web sites on Roswell on the www, mine is
considered one of the top ten, which I'm extremely proud of. The
reason for that is my method of doing research and my honesty in
sharing information with the public and letting them decide what
they want to believe."

Well, I hardly have a web site so it's definitely not one of the
"top ten". It's been almost seven years now since my encounters
with the "OSI guy" first began. I've waited more than a year and
a half for 'Nameless' and his friend to do something about
setting the record straight but the story and the video remain
posted on the internet, unaltered, still letting people decide
what they want to believe.

As it turns out, Eddie aka "Ed", "Edward" Thomas/Page was
nothing more than a truck driver. According to his ex-wife,
Eddie enjoyed spinning wild tales and used the materials for his
scripts and short stories he liked to write. Mr. Thomas never
worked for the OSI.

But then, who knows, perhaps the more modern MIB's drive 18
wheelers and wear baseball hats advertising "Joe's Crab Shack".
It is, after all, a new millennium.

A. Hebert

"The only thing we have to fear is fear itself." --Franklin Delano
Roosevelt--

Links to interesting web sites:

http://www.truthseekeratroswell.com/intro.html

http://www.rense.com/general27/cia.htm







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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   Feb > Feb 9

                       Re: The Beveridge UFO - Warren

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2004 08:26:59 -0800
Fwd Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2004 12:40:17 -0500
Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO - Warren


>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 12:50:17 -0400
>Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO

>>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 14:34:14 +0000
>>Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO

><snip>

>>This thread is beginning to bug me.

>>But seriously folks, has anyone addressed the possibility (all
>>alternatives need to be considered and confirmed or ruled out) that
>>the image is the result of a developmental flaw? If so, I missed
>>that. But then, I haven't followed every single comment having seen
>>hundreds of such photos come and go over the years.

>>Very often when the photographer sees nothing, it is because there
>>was nothing there to see. This may be different for digital cameras,
>>but someone should at least address the issue if they haven't
>>already.

Don, Dick, Et Al.,

First, Don, I initiated this thread because the original
"Whittlesea thread" seemed IMHO to become "static"; that the
focus seemed to shift from the "contributions" of those who have
bothered to look into this case, to "how" they said something,
or the "way they said it. Because of "that," I thought it would
be nice, to focus on the "positive" accomplishments of those
that chose to take the time to analyze/investigate/research the
pic!

In re-reading the thread(s) and looking at the offerings of
various people on the list, I for one was quite impressed with
the expeditious "response, investigation, research effort, and
analysis of the photograph! To that end, I had hoped that like
minds would chime in, and this would be an "up-lifting thread"
and focus could be put on the "mechanics" of the research of the
event, as well as future events, and fill in any "research
holes" that might still be existent in this case.

To the best of my knowledge, in re-reading the posts concerning
the event near Beveridge, I don't believe "anyone" has stated
"conclusively" what the object is/was - of course no one can, as
the data is inconclusive. That said, so we're on the same page,
what is being offered are "educated opinions" or "hypothetical
conclusions" based on the current data to date.

To be clear - for me - and only for me - IMHO I believe, based
on "my own analysis" as well as other contributions from fellow
listers, and data etc., offered on this list, that the "object"
captured digitally in the pic known as the "Whittlesea UFO" is
an "flying insect" of some sort that was in close proximity to
the camera. This is of course a theory - "my theory." My theory
or "opinion" could change if additional evidence/data is
realized.

Finally, having said all that, and before I continue with my
rejoinder to your post; hopefully we can get back on course with
the initial goal of this thread which was to "focus" on the
"positive aspects" of the investigation/research to date, by
fellow listers who have donated their time and efforts to figure
out just what the hell this thing is!

Again, my hat is off, and I bow to the efforts and good work of
my fellow Listers!

>What "bugs" me Dick is the assumption that the object is a bug
>when there is no evidence to support this contention.

There is evidence, Don, starting with the pic itself, which is
direct evidence. If you blow the pic up you can make out
"wings," IMHO. There is "circumstantial evidence in that we know
Australia is filled with "flying insects." There is "direct
evidence" that digital pictures of insects, e.g., bees taking on
an entirely different images when captured in flight - e.g.,
rods! There is "supportive evidence"; if it was a bug/insect
that would easily explain why there "weren't any eye witnesses."

>There is work to be done here. For one thing the stated direction in
>which the picture was taken conflicts with the stated time of
>day and the shadow lines. Additionally I've been a photographer
>for some 30 years and made a profession out of it for some time.
>This bug in front of the lens has never occurred in the
>thousands of pics I've taken nor for that matter have birds
>shown up, unless I was shooting them. I have one anomalous photo
>out of those thousands, and that was during a time exposure of
>the Moon, a top shaped object -which I did not see- on it's side
>some distance away from the Moon. I don't know what it is, but
>one thing I'm certain of is that it's not a lens flare [consider
>the light during time exposure] now a bug.

"The majority" of photographers who earn a living at it, would
say in all the thousand of pictures they've taken, "they never
shot a UFO"; yet we know there are UFOs. For that matter most
people haven't seen a UFO - but they exist.

>These convenient bugs and birds, which no one seems to be able
>to identify or explain, are just that... convienient. Let's do
>the work before we run around half cocked pretending that we
>"ufologists" are beyond being duped by a bug in front of the
>lens when indeed you might be duped into the wrong
>identification.

There has been work done Don - good work - and it is continuing,
and there has been "opinions" given during the process.

>Since the nature of the anomalous object-commonly known as a
>ufo- is picked up with a camera and not seen by the witness-
>what's the big deal? The camera-even the SLR-is far more capable
>of stopping action at 1/2,000th of a second than is the human
>eye which stops action only up to about 1/15th-1/16th of a
>second.Digital cameras can stop action up to 1/20,000 of a
>second. I see nothing remotely unusual about the photographer
>not "seeing" that object, particularly through the tiny field of
>a view finder. I sometimes wonder if any of those on these lists
>ever use a camera or know anything about them considering the
>nonsense I see on here.

I think Don if you re-read the posts from those concerned, and
look at their respective research, e.g., Amy, John, Dan, Diane,
Larry and Bruce "nonsense" is not the term you would use
describing their work!

>Some one mentions there being no "sonic boom" if this object was
>moving above the speed of sound. Paul R. Hill, an aerodynamicist
>with Langley at NASA wondered the same thing about reports back
>in the 50's 60s and 70's etc., and believed that it had
>something to do with a possible field generated around the
>object as a result of it's power source or perhaps purposely to
>allow the object to slide effortlessly through the atmosphere.
>He also noted that often the object was moving with a large
>portion of its surface inclined into to the direction of flight
>which would induce terrific drag, rather than attempting to
>plane at some angle of attack. It has to be remembered that the
>atmosphere creates terrific drag even after transonic
>achievement, so eliminating it is a desirable effect.

Interesting point... makes one wonder if there has been any work
done in regards to UFOs and sonic booms.

>Here's an experiment. Try and find the solid body of the
>Columbia inside the plasma ball surrounding it as it breaks up
>in the atmosphere. Those that can't get by today's physics are
>really going to have a problem in the "UFO" field.

>If we can't determine what it is then it is an unknown [that
>means UFO, for those that don't understand the term], not a bug
>or a bird because we can't identify it.

>Sour grapes explanation. It's probably a "bug".


As mentioned earlier, everyone "has" or "is" coming to "their
own" "hypothetical conclusions" either based on their own
research, or that of those on this list, or elsewhere from the
available data to date; moreover, although this might be a UFO,
(verbatim) there is no evidence that it is in fact "flying,"
i.e., "self-propelled." So technically, we can't even call it a
UFO - "photographic anomaly" or "unknown object" would be better
suited.

In conclusion Don, to avoid any continuance in a negative vein
for this particular thread, I want to make clear that my
response is not meant to be offensive in any form or manner,
merely and explanation for establishing the thread originally,
as well as how I have come to the conclusion, (hypothetically)
at present given the data to date, that the object in the pic is
a "bug, critter, insect" etc., opposed to a "metalic craft" of
some sort.


Respectfully,

Frank Warren










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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   Feb > Feb 9

             Re: Ted Phillips' Physical Traces Update - Friedman

From: Stan Friedman <fsphys.nul>
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 12:57:19 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2004 12:43:43 -0500
Subject: Re: Ted Phillips' Physical Traces Update - Friedman



>From: Ted Phillips - I.A.I. <archaeoanom.nul-linc.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 09:49:05 -0600
>Subject: Ted Phillips' Physical Traces Update


>                   PHYSICAL TRACES ASSOCIATED
>                              WITH
>                   UNIDENTIFIED FLYING OBJECTS

>                        An Interim Report

>                   RESULTS OF PROCESSING DATA

>                           1490 - 2004

>                         Ted R. Phillips

>               CENTER FOR PHYSICAL TRACE RESEARCH
>                   archaeoanom.nul-linc.net

<snip>

>Graph below indicates the object dimensions as estimated by
>witnesses. Dimensions in meters are as follows;

>A: one - three              B: four - seven
>C: eight - twelve           D: twelve  - sixteen
>E: seventeen - twenty-one   F: twenty-two - twenty-five
>G: twenty-five +

I hope listers can appreciate, even just based on this brief
summary, how much useful information Ted Phillips has gathered
over the years on physical trace cases. Next time somebody tells
you there isn't any physical evidence, please remind them.

I am sure the numbers to go with the diameters given in the last
paragraph will be forthcoming... along with many others.

As you can imagine this is just the tip of the iceberg. If you
have such cases on file, please submit them to Ted. He lives in
Missouri, and, like the rest of us who have been involved in
ufology for several decades, isn't getting any younger. Ted
appears in my 1978 UFO documentary " UFOs ARE Real" and was a
protege of Allen Hynek.


Stan Friedman

www.v-j-enterprises.com/sfpage.html








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                          Re: UFO On Mars? - Groff

From: Terry Groff <terry.nul>
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 11:50:44 -0600
Fwd Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2004 15:43:41 -0500
Subject: Re: UFO On Mars? - Groff


>From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2004 12:26:31 -0600
>Subject: Re: UFO On Mars?

>>From: Terry Groff <terry.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 11:37:55 -0600
>>Subject: Re: UFO On Mars?

<snip>

>>http://origin.mars5.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/spirit.html

>>I noticed that in each horizon image taken by the left camera
>>you will find the same spot but it is not in any of the images
>>taken with the right camera.

>>It could be a speck of dust or pixel dropout but I'm fairly sure
>>there is no flying object there.

>...Same speck in different pictures? But what about the focus
>problem? Be that as it may... just when you think you have a
>'smoking gun' by the short and curlies... ah well...

Yeah, I know. Dang it. I was taken by the original image too. So
much so that I even did some blowups with six different filters.
You can view my results if you want although they have no real
value anymore (at least to me).

http://terrygroff.com/ufotools/ufo/images/martian_object_resamples.jpg

As for the focus, all I can say is that both the right and left
images of the Nav Cam seem to be in focus to me. Try looking at
them stereoscopically.


Terry







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                          Secrecy News -- 02/09/04

From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood.nul>
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 14:13:04 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 07:20:35 -0500
Subject: Secrecy News -- 02/09/04


SECRECY NEWS
from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy
Volume 2004, Issue No. 15
February 9, 2004


**      SOCIAL NETWORK ANALYSIS AND INTELLIGENCE
**      BUSH NAMES ADVISORY COMMISSION ON INTELLIGENCE
**      IG: DOJ DID NOT VIOLATE FOIA BY WITHHOLDING DIVERSITY REPORT
**      LEAHY ON PARADE MAGAZINE ON FOIA
**      EISENHOWER: THIS LETTER WILL CONSTITUTE YOUR AUTHORITY


SOCIAL NETWORK ANALYSIS AND INTELLIGENCE

An Air Force study of the Iranian government that was co-
sponsored by the National Security Agency shows how U.S.
intelligence agencies are making use of "social network
analysis," a social science research tool, to inform their
products.

In social network analysis the patterns of social interaction
are subjected to rigorous examination and modeling, beginning
with questions such as: Who knows whom? Which individuals and
groups interact with one another and on what terms?

Social network analysis provides a useful way of structuring
knowledge and framing further research. Ideally, it can also
enhance an analyst's predictive capacity.

"Correctly interpreting a social network assists in predicting
behavior and decision-making within the social network," wrote
Capt. Robert S. Renfro, II and Richard F. Deckro of the Air
Force Institute of Technology.

"The ability to understand and predict behavior of members in a
social network allows the analyst to evaluate specific courses
of action that will influence the members of a social network in
a desirable manner."

In an illustrative example, the Air Force authors applied this
method in order "to understand the relative influence of
individuals in the Iranian government."

Of course, like other analytical techniques, social network
analysis produces results that are no better than the data upon
which it rests. It cannot compensate for intelligence that is
fabricated, skewed or simply erroneous.

See "A Social Network Analysis of the Iranian Government" by
Renfro and Deckro, based on research co-sponsored by the
National Security Agency and the National Air Intelligence
Center, November 2001, (1 MB PDF file) here:

http://www.fas.org/irp/eprint/socnet.pdf


BUSH NAMES ADVISORY COMMISSION ON INTELLIGENCE

President Bush issued an executive order to establish a
Commission that will "examine" intelligence capabilities but not
"investigate" how intelligence was used to support the decision
to go to war against Iraq.

The new Commission will exclusively advise the President rather
than foster public accountability.

"The Commission is established for the purpose of advising the
President... in order to ensure the most effective counter-
proliferation capabilities of the United States and response to
the September 11, 2001, terrorist attacks and the ongoing threat
of terrorist activity," the President's executive order
declared.

"In implementing this order, the Commission shall solely advise
and assist the President," the order stated.

According to the terms of the executive order, the Commission's
resulting report does not even have to be transmitted to
Congress. (The Bush Administration's entirely inconsequential
2001 NSPD-5 review of U.S. intelligence was not provided to
Congress either.)

Instead, "within 90 days of receiving the Commission's report
[next year], the President will consult with the Congress
concerning the Commission's report and recommendations, and will
propose any appropriate legislative recommendations arising out
of the findings of the Commission."

Public accountability is not mentioned in the new order.

See Executive Order 13328 of February 6, 2004 here:

http://www.fas.org/irp/offdocs/eo/eo-13328.htm

The President's announcement of seven of the nine advisory
commission members may be found here:

http://www.fas.org/irp/news/2004/02/wh020604.html


IG: DOJ DID NOT VIOLATE FOIA BY WITHHOLDING DIVERSITY REPORT

The Department of Justice did not violate the Freedom of
Information Act by withholding large portions of a recent report
on attorney workforce diversity, even though some of the
portions withheld were factual in nature, the Department's
Inspector General concluded in a new report.

After FOIA requesters asked for disclosure of the workforce
diversity report, the Department posted a copy of the report on
its web site with many passages blacked out. Those passages
were "deliberative" in nature, the Department claimed, and
therefore exempt from disclosure.

But due to a technical error by Justice, Russ Kick of
TheMemoryHole.org was able to strip away the black marks and to
post the full text of the document on his web site.

Upon examination of the full uncensored document, it was clear
that many of the withheld portions were factual in nature, and
not deliberative at all, prompting several protests to the
Inspector General (IG).

But factual or not, the IG concluded that the Department had
acted within its discretionary authority to withhold portions of
the document.

It appears that "discretionary decisions [to withhold or release
information] are not based on objective criteria but on
political factors," said Michael J. Ravnitzky, who had requested
the document under FOIA. "That itself is quite important and
interesting."

Last month, observed Russ Kick, "the Justice Department released
the entire report (with new bonus material) completely
unredacted on their site! Isn't that a de facto admission that
the redactions weren't necessary in the first place?"

See "A Review of the Response by the Department of Justice to
Freedom of Information Act Requests for the Workplace Diversity
Report," DoJ Inspector General, dated January 29 and published
February 6:

http://www.fas.org/irp/agency/doj/oig/foia-div.html


LEAHY ON PARADE MAGAZINE ON FOIA

"One of the most common uses of ... freedom of information laws
[is] to ensure that schools, neighborhoods and local industries
are safe and secure," noted Sen. Patrick J. Leahy (D-VT) last
week.

He reflected on a remarkable story that appeared last month in
Parade Magazine, which he entered into the Congressional Record,
describing how ordinary Americans use the Freedom of Information
Act to protect themselves and their communities.

See his remarks on "The Importance of State and Federal Freedom
of Information Laws" on the Senate floor, February 6:

 http://www.fas.org/sgp/congress/2004/s020604.html


EISENHOWER: THIS LETTER WILL CONSTITUTE YOUR AUTHORITY

President Eisenhower, Secrecy News noted last year (12/17/03),
once sent "classified letters... to ten private citizens
throughout the country giving them authority over various parts
of the economy and total society in the event of the declaration
of a national emergency."

Now the Conelrad Atomic Secrets web sites has tracked down those
extraordinary letters from President Eisenhower and published
most of them on its web site (one remains classified and
unavailable).

See "This Letter Will Constitute Your Authority: The Eisenhower
Ten" here:

http://tinyurl.com/27p3f


_______________________________________________
Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the
Federation of American Scientists.

To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to
 secrecy_news-request.nul
with "subscribe" in the body of the message.

OR email your request to saftergood.nul

Secrecy News is archived at:
 http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html

_______________________
Steven Aftergood
Project on Government Secrecy
Federation of American Scientists
web:www.fas.org/sgp/index.html
email: saftergood.nul
voice: (202) 454-4691







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   Feb > Feb 10

                    2003 Canadian UFO Survey News Release

From: Chris Rutkowski <rutkows.nul>
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 16:59:23 -0600 (CST)
Fwd Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 07:25:35 -0500
Subject: 2003 Canadian UFO Survey News Release


News Advisory:

Study Finds UFO Sightings in Canada at All-Time High

February 9, 2004 - (Winnipeg, MB) The 2003 Canadian UFO Survey
was released today by Ufology Research of Manitoba (UFOROM), an
independent study group that analyses information about
unidentified flying objects reported across Canada. Its findings
include:

- There were 673 UFO sightings reported in Canada in 2003 - or
nearly two each day.

- There were about 39 per cent more UFO reports in 2003 than
2002. The number of UFO reports per year in Canada has increased
almost 350 per cent since 1998.

- In 2003, record numbers of UFOs were reported in British
Columbia (304), Alberta (76), Ontario (150) and Quebec (49).

- In 2003, about 17 per cent of all UFO reports were
unexplained. This percentage of unknowns falls to about seven
per cent when only high-quality cases are considered.

- Most UFO sightings have two witnesses.

- The typical UFO sighting lasted approximately 10 minutes in
2003.

UFOROM research director and study author Chris Rutkowski notes:

"The most important findings of this study include the fact that
the number of UFO sightings in Canada has increased over the
past fifteen years, and 2003 saw an all-time record high number
of sightings reported. People continue to report observing
unusual objects in the sky, and some of these objects do not
have obvious explanations."

He also says that many witnesses are pilots, police and other
individuals with reasonably good observing capabilities and good
judgement. Although most reported UFOs are simply lights in the
night sky, a significant number are objects with definite shapes
observed within the witnesses' frame of reference.

Rutkowski cautions: "Popular opinion to the contrary, there is
yet to be any incontrovertible evidence that some UFO cases
involve extraterrestrial contact. However, the continued
reporting of UFOs by the public and the yearly increase in
numbers of UFO reports suggests a need for further examination
of the phenomenon by social, medical and/or physical
scientists."

The study was produced with the cooperation of researchers and
investigators across Canada and with case data from private,
public and government sources.

The complete study is available online at:

http://www.geocities.com/aristotl.geo

For further information, contact:

Ufology Research of Manitoba, e-mail: rutkows.nul

Media interviews are available with local contacts in British
Columbia, Manitoba, Ontario, Quebec, New Brunswick and Nova
Scotia.

Note: UFO sightings in Canada can be reported toll-free to:

1-866-262-1989










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                         Re: Jim Mortellaro - Velez

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 14:24:50 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 07:27:50 -0500
Subject: Re: Jim Mortellaro - Velez


>From: Luis R. Gonzalez <lrgm.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 19:41:42 +0100
>Subject: Re: Jim Mortellaro

>>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 19:01:01 -0500
>>Subject: Re: Jim Mortellaro

>>>From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg.nul>
>>>Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 06:54:22 -0600
>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>Subject: Jim Mortellaro

>>>Mary Sutherland of BUFO:

>>>http://www.burlingtonnews.net/listen

>>>interviewed "famous abductee" Dr. J. Mortellaro at this address
>>>for around three hours.....

>>Honestly Alfred, who cares about Mortellaro? Really!

>>The one I feel sorry for is Budd. When the day comes that he
>>learns he has been fooled, he'll go through the roof. Let
>>Mortellaro tout his lies without help from any of us.

>>Alfred, that SOB was a plague to me for three years. I'm really
>>glad to finally be rid of him. Please, I'm asking you as a
>>friend, let that rotting corpse continue to mould in the grave
>>without any of us disturbing the soil.

>>In hopes that this is the _last_ time I will ever see his name
>>on this List.


Hello,

You inquired.

>Just for the record. Are you saying that Budd Hopkins, whose
>investugative skills at detecting fraudulent abductees have been
>receiving laudatory mentions on another threads in this very
>List, is being fooled by Jim Mortellaro about his recent
>abduction with surprising medical evidences and even an
>independent witness?

First, I'd like to admonish you that, salivating over a keyboard
can wreak havoc with its electronics. Secondly, my comment was
very direct and forthright. I didn't say _anything_ that even
remotely resembles what _you_ have written (interpreted) up
above. I said what _I_ said. Not what you would like to 'think'
I said.

I don't speak to you Luis because you already have your mind
made up about so many things that it becomes a waste of effort
to engage in dialog with you. According to you, we're all
telling "stories." (defacto lies.) So why bother? I'm surprised
that Katarina has been so patient with you. I would have pointed
you toward the door the second you and your 'made-up' mind
entered the room.

Mortellaro fooled me. He 'fooled' a lot of people. I was the one
who introduced him to both Budd Hopkins and to this List. And if
Budd Hopkins is promoting the case, then he has fooled Budd as
well. Jim makes you feel sorry for him, empathize with him. It
takes time to figure out that it's all manipulation. We're all
human, Luis. Unless you want to make something out of that, I
really have nothing further to say to you. Like I said earlier,
it's _always_ a brutal waste of time and effort trying to
communicate with you. Like talking to a wall.


John Velez










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                       Re: The Beveridge UFO - Warren

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2004 11:34:36 -0800
Fwd Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 07:29:36 -0500
Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO - Warren


>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
>To:  ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2004 16:05:22 -0400
>Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO

>>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2004 06:06:42 -0800
>>Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO

><snip>

>>>Yeah? Who decided it was a bug?

>>I decided it was a bug, however; to get the "jest" of what I was
>>saying you would have to read the original post as to not take the
>>one line shown above out of context.

>>At any rate , in "my opinion," I "believe" barring further
>>evidence/data that the object captured digitally in the so- called
>>"Whittlesea UFO" pic is a flying insect of some sort "caught in
>>flight" in close proximity to the camera. I've come to this
>>"hypothetical conclusion" based on my own "inspection/research" of
>>the pic, along with the data presented by fellow listers.

>>Furthermore, I started this thread because it seemed to me that the
>>original "Whittlesea thread" had become "static," and I felt it
>>necessary to put some emphasis on the fine work done by those who
>>chose to take the time and analyze the pic, as well as those who
>>added their respective observations, (your name was included of
>>course).

>>The "expeditious collection, collation, evaluation and dissemination
>>of the data for the event is exactly what Ufology needs, only on a
>>larger scale, but certainly in the manner that was/is performed here
>>by the members of this list.

>I'm assuming that you decided for yourself and to your own
>satisfaction that the Beveridge or Whittlesea object was a bug.
>I on the other hand have not, as yet, been satisfied that this
>is indeed a bug or a bird. One of the reasons I don't like to
>blow this shot off is due to the very nature of the "gaseous
>appearing" envelope surrounding the object. Much can be learned
>from ordinary jet's exhausts of the aircraft's performance and I
>believe that there is something to the aura surrounding some UFO
>photos. Rather than being out of focus perhaps this is some by-
>product of it's power source. I made mention of this to Errol on
>SDI Saturday evening. I'm sure there are some out there that can
>make much of that aura by measuring light intensity, spectrum
>and what have you. What does it look like in infrared for
>example? How is the envelope refracting or filtering light
>passing through it?

I have in fact come to the conclusion that the object in the
afore mentioned pic is an insect of some sort, with the evidence
at hand, however; I reserve the right to change that "opinion"
if further evidence presents itself.

I am not in anyway, "blowing this off," only making a hypothesis
with the current data to date; moreover, there isn't any
"definitive" proof in any direction, and if that day comes,
regardless of the outcome, (bug or craft of some sort etc.)it
will certainly help with future events of "unknown objects"
captured with a digital camera; to that end the relevance is of
great value no matter what the object is.

I believe "all angles" of the pic should be exercised, this
certainly includes what could be an "aura" or some "distortion"
surrounding the object.

>Since we now have the specs on the Kodak camera that was used we
>know that if it was a bug it had to be approximately 20 inches
>away or slightly closer to the lens of the camera for that level
>of detail to show up.

I think my sister-in-law has that very same camera,(I know it's
a Kodak) if so, I will try some experiments and see what I can
come up with. If it were a bug as I believe (so far) and we
don't know the "size" or "what kind" how can the distance be
judged so accurately. Separately, I might point out that the
"gravel" at the bottom of the pic, presumably near the
photographer's feet is clearly recognizable.

>Again, I'm curious about this as a possible piece of the puzzle,
>not as Ray suggests, that I'm  loath to give it up because I (..
>have some inner need to perceive).

>Those who know me, know better.

Personally Don, I hope I'm wrong in my theory, however; even if
I am, we will then have another photo of a UFO in the pile
without any other supportive evidence as to what it really is.


Cheers,

Frank







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                        Re: The Beveridge UFO - Velez

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 14:57:16 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 07:31:14 -0500
Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO - Velez


>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 13:21:40 -0500
>Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO

>>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 22:13:12 -0400
>>Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO

>>>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 12:57:54 -0500
>>>Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO - Ledger

>>>>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
>>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>>Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 23:29:45 -0400
>>>>Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO

<snip>

>>>Yeah? Who decided it was a bug?

>Don, you simply are not addressing Amy's intention in that
>presentation. Maybe you're just being snide or else you do not
>understand the function of paradigm creation or modeling in the
>scientific process.

I think it is you who do not, to use your own words, "understand
modeling in the scientific process," Ray. If you think that the
club/turd shaped object that Amy is using as her example of a
'fly' is an accurate reproduction of the body of any known 'fly'
then I completely understand why you have no faith in half of
what you see. (perceive)

If Amy had used the 3D model of the body of a fly and then was
able to make a convincing look-alike for the Whittlesea object,
I too would have been convinced that the possibility we are
seeing a 'fly' was the best possible explanation. But that's not
the case is it?

The fact is; Amy had to create a really distorted image/thing,
(that 'club' shaped object she calls a 'fly') put wings on it
and move it around nine ways from Sunday just to get it begin to
resemble the object in the photo. Yet _that_ depiction is what
you consider to be a fair and accurate 'scientific
model/rendition of a 'fly'.

Again, no wonder you don't trust your own perceptions.

>Forget it, Don. The bug, object, or whatever, is not in focus,
>as Bruce Maccabee has mentioned. It is not image smear, alone,
>that makes that image indistinct, as Bruce clearly carefully
>explained. So, bug or omnibus alien vehicle, the thing is not in
>focus, and that puts some very serious constraints on the
>distance that thing could have been from the camera, favoring
>the bug hypothesis, as Bruce Maccabee has commented and
>carefully explained.

What a 'spin-doctor' you are, Ray! It's really quite remarkable.
One of the many comments that Bruce Maccabee made was;

>Knowing the distance is very important, obviously. Unfortunately
>even if we knew exact distances to all the known objects in the
>photo that wouldn't help us determine the distance to the UO
>(unknown object). If we knew, a priori, some information about
>the object (such as its size!) we could determine the distance.

Without those distance measurements there is no way to tell what
it is we're looking at. Why arrive at _any_ conclusions so early
in the proceedings? Especially if you consider that we are not
yet in possession of all the facts. What kind of "science" are
you practicing, Ray? Science 'by proclamation'? as Stan Freidman
is fond of saying.

>>Finally, whatever one makes of this photo, both its
>>circumstance (unseen) and the lack of unambiguous image content
>>make it next to useless, or probably utterly useless, in
>>elucidating the 'UFO mystery' in its classical sense.

Twaddle! Says you. Don makes an excellent point when he draws
our attention to the size of the disturbance in the atmosphere
surrounding the 'object.' We still don't know what it is we're
looking at in spite of the all-fired rush that some of us are
apparently in to arrive at a conclusion and to put this case on
a shelf. Again I ask... What's the rush?

All the facts aren't in yet, Ray. If the anxiety is getting to
you so much to put this one to rest, maybe you ought to sit out
this dance.

'With every good wish'  ;)


John Velez







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                      Re: State Of Ufology - Dickenson

From: Ray Dickenson <editor.nul>
Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2004 20:01:33 +0000
Fwd Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 08:38:35 -0500
Subject: Re: State Of Ufology - Dickenson


>From: Steven Kaeser <steve.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 14:21:16 -0500
>Subject: Re: State Of Ufology

>the old "If it walks like a duck and quacks like
>a duck then it must BE a duck" argument isn't
>something that I'm going to base my belief
>structure on (or at least try not to)


'Lo Steven,

No 'belief structures', however plain old logic seems to say
that powerful and largely unrecognized forces and motivations
are behind the irrational block on mainstream UFO research.

But I fully understand and respect your own viewpoints because I
too had middle-of-the-road/conformist views of science and of
'democratic' (UK's) power structures (maybe 'cos mostly wasn't
working in UK).

Even so, my various jobs meant I was well aware of other
countries' hidden forces and networks, which often carried much
weight. (see "perceptions + brief.txt" in Google, maybe also
"perceptions + world1")

On return to UK began asking some awkward science questions,
'cos published info (text-books & prestige "theories") was
plainly inconsistent, contradictory:

http://www.perceptions.couk.com/uef/ansci3.html#embar

and then some awkward social questions - because UK's media
_weren't_ asking them:

http://www.perceptions.couk.com/answers5.html#agenda

or "laworjustice" in Google, and "your battles".

Guess what happened? Illegal pressures and threats from various
authorities and getting pulled over by the boys-in-blue - but
only after they'd had time to run the license plate (not
before).

The bent officials, media (and cops) clearly thought silencing
this unknown joe would be only a matter of rigging some "legal"
oppression to gag him. They weren't to know this analyst _and_
communicator joe is downright stubborn.

That's how "Perceptions" started. If it suddenly gets pulled
you'll know what's happening.

Please check "perceptions + reports.txt" and then tell me it
_doesn't_ hold water, bearing in mind the psychology of
power-elites and of their eager-beaver minions.


Best regards

Ray D
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Perceptions" http://www.perceptions.couk.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~






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                             Re: Jim Mortellaro

From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg.nul>
Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2004 14:59:40 -0600
Fwd Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 08:48:56 -0500
Subject: Re: Jim Mortellaro


>From: Luis R. Gonzalez <lrgm.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 19:41:42 +0100
>Subject: Re: Jim Mortellaro

>>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 19:01:01 -0500
>>Subject: Re: Jim Mortellaro

>>>From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg.nul>
>>>Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 06:54:22 -0600
>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>Subject: Jim Mortellaro

>>>Mary Sutherland of BUFO:

>>>http://www.burlingtonnews.net/listen

>>>interviewed "famous abductee" Dr. J. Mortellaro at this address
>>>for around three hours.....

>>Honestly Alfred, who cares about Mortellaro? Really!

>>The one I feel sorry for is Budd. When the day comes that he
>>learns he has been fooled, he'll go through the roof. Let
>>Mortellaro tout his lies without help from any of us.

>>Alfred, that SOB was a plague to me for three years. I'm really
>>glad to finally be rid of him. Please, I'm asking you as a
>>friend, let that rotting corpse continue to mould in the grave
>>without any of us disturbing the soil.

>>In hopes that this is the _last_ time I will ever see his name
>>on this List.

>Just for the record. Are you saying that Budd Hopkins, whose
>investugative skills at detecting fraudulent abductees have been
>receiving laudatory mentions on another threads in this very
>List, is being fooled by Jim Mortellaro about his recent
>abduction with surprising medical evidences and even an
>independent witness?


Mr. Manso...

I can only answer your question in terms of what _I_ believe,
what _I_ think, and what _I_ know. You appear, sir, to want to
boil this thorny issue down into a fallacy of "either/or" with
either Budd Hopkins being *fooled* and therefore fallible or
*not fooled* and therefore infallible. Reality is always more
than just two choices, a plethora of alternatives are usually
available, and we would be remiss in the extreme to even pretend
that there are just two choices here.

I believe that Budd Hopkins is an upfront genuine researcher
with a pioneer's spirit and an explorer's soul. I believe that
he investigates something that is real in the real world,
something with immediate importance to us all, and something
that helps define the future we're all going to have to live in.
I've met the man, heard him speak, read his book, and spoken to
him on the telephone. Forgetting for a moment that -I've- been
wrong before, I believe that Mr. Hopkins has been very
convincing as regards the validity of his over-all work and
cannot be expected to have to demonstrate spot-on, 100% accuracy
in every case. Dr. John Mack, another credible researcher has
had prepared "ringers" slid into his seminars by "Robertsonian
CSICOPians"... I'd predict that Dr. Jacobs has had to endure
similar charlatans, scalawags, and sociopaths. This does not
detract from their over-all contribution, their competency, or
their veracity. I believe, Budd Hopkins -is- the genuine
article, even if a few of his cases are not.

I think that there are legions of psychopaths that would subvert
the work of the aforementioned to their own ends and I produced
a paper on that theme to be found at:

http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2001/feb/m07-003.shtml

I think some of these 'individuals' do their own research and
can cleverly appropriate the experience and the work of others
to facilitate those scurrilous and disingenuous (by definition)
ends. Some of these persons have been involved with law
enforcement and understand how to contrive an evidentiary or
audit trail to facilitate their bogus claims. I think that some
of these persons have lived their whole lives this way, moving
fretfully from one group of facilitators to another, advantaging
themselves on the work (or experience) of others, and then
moving on when the well of good faith runs dry (or they expose
themselves). I think that some of these persons have become
adept at advantaging themselves on the backs of others and are
as capable of fooling Mr. Hopkins, or Doctors Mack and Jacobs,
as they are of fooling me... or even you, Mr. Manso.

I know that I cannot, in good faith, support the claims of _all_
abductees, credit _all_ their assertions, validate _all_ their
paradigms, provide citation for -all- their experience, or prop
up _all_ their stories in any way. I know that, with some of
these persons, every day that goes by seems to provide another
evidentiary bit, or claim, that strains credulity more and more,
the sum total of which must, eventually, strain that credulity
to the breaking point. I know that some people lie, Mr. Manso,
and moreover, don't even know that they are doing so. I know
that it is very hard for even the practiced adept to ferret
these persons out and so Budd Hopkins (Mack, Jacobs or any other
credible researcher) should not be held accountable and liable
for the good-faith testimony that they receive. Moses and
Solomon can be taken for a ride... as can I... as can you. The
trick is to not be an impacted ideologue - and get off the
*ride* in time.

Don't try to boil this down to mere black and white, Mr. Manso.
Black and white is an abstraction or an allegory that does not
exist in the real world. In reality, everything is gray.
Moreover, at the denouement I'm sure that Mr. Hopkins will be
shown to be a lot more *right* than he was *wrong* (whatever
that means). That's what I believe, what I think, and what I
know...


Lehmberg.nul

EXPLORE "AlienViewGroup" at its HostPros URL.
http://www.alienview.net


JOHN FORD RESTORATION FUND -- John will be released eventually.
He'll need a tax free cash stake to get on his feet. Let's put
one together for him; the bigger it is -- the more attention
he gets. It could have been you. E-mail for detail.
$450.00 pledged -- $200.00 collected!

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite.
What others see from afar, I leave far behind me."
- Giordano Bruno, scourged by the scabrously specious scurrilous.







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   Feb > Feb 10

              Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Shough

From: Martin Shough <mshough.nul>
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 21:13:10 -0000
Fwd Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 08:56:02 -0500
Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Shough


>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2004 16:29:17 -0800
>Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph

>>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
>>To:  ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 13:35:02 -0400
>>Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph


Whether the photographer's companion saw it _is_ a real issue.
Whether anyone on the passing train saw it is a real issue. The
answer appears to be "no" in both cases. It isn't impossible that
no-one saw a supersonic or hypersonic discoid several times the
angular diameter of the moon hurtling over the landscape. But
neither is it impossible that nobody paid any attention to a
bird, either. Either way it is a material issue.

>To my untrained eye, and allowing for the cautions Dan made
>regarding altered colors, it looks more and more like a flying
>insect (note the wings) and less like the domed saucer shape I
>thought I had made out earlier.

>What it doesn't look like (to me) is a bird.

To me it _still_ does look like a bird. The 'buglike' shape is
possibly due to the motion blur. Birds flap their wings
relatively slowly; insects rapidly.

I would expect the motion blur due to the bulk displacement of
an insect during the exposure to be much smaller than the motion
blur of its wings due to the rapid rate of oscillation. In this
case it appears that the opposite is the case.

Dan Bright's image shows a large blurred bulk which you have to
remember represents the _movement_ of the object during the
1/250 sec exposure, not the physical shape of the object itself.

The wings on the other hand are stopped with very little
vertical oscillation during the exposure. You can see this
clearly on the wing which is pointed more or less straight at
the camera and makes a thin bright highlight.

This suggests that the wing is beating slowly relative to the
lateral bulk motion of the object, which in turn suggests (to
me) the aerodynamic lift of a bird rather than a bug. If you see
the dark area below and to the rear as a motion-blurred image of
the shadow on the underside of the body you can separate this
from the lighter dorsal region of the body immediately behind
the wings, which of course are very foreshortened due to the
perspective.


Martin Shough








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                     Re: Review Of Sight Unseen - Sandow

From: Greg Sandow <greg.nul>
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 16:39:43 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 09:46:47 -0500
Subject: Re: Review Of Sight Unseen - Sandow


>From: Nick Pope <nick.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 20:10:52 -0000
>Subject: Re: Review Of Sight Unseen

>>Has he ever found at least 3 independent abductees (ideally, from 3
>>different investigators) who describe at least 4 identical complex
>>symbols?

Yes, though all from abductees he's worked with. I don't know if
other abduction investigators have reported the same symbols.

I've seen these symbols, and found them pretty staggering. I
agree with Nick Pope (hi, Nick!) that we'd be better off if we
could exclude any possibility of collusion. If, for instance,
abductees in different parts of the world, working with
investigators who don't know each other, reported the same
symbols, I'd agree that the case would be stronger.

I also think Budd's procedure wasn't rigorous enough. When an
abductee reported seeing symbols, he'd ask the abductee to draw
them. At that point, he should have (in my view) not looked at
the drawing himself, but instead asked the abductee to seal it
in an envelope. The envelope, and all others from abductees who
drew symbols, would then be given to some neutral investigator.
Eventually all the envelopes received up to a certain point
would be opened, and the similarity (or lack of it0 between the
symbols could have been judged by a panel of investigators, who
wouldn't even have been told where the symbols came from, or
what the similarity (or lack of it) might mean. They wouldn't
even be told the subject of the investigation - that is, that
it had to do with UFOs.

That's the best way to keep the comparison of the symbols as
impartial as possible.

But now let me say why, as anecdotal evidence, these symbols
struck (as I said) pretty staggering. I first heard of them,
separately, from two abductees who worked with Budd. These
people knew each other, but weren't specially friendly. I'm not
aware that they ever saw each other outside of Budd's very, very
occasional support group meetings.

Both told me very similar stories. They'd remembered seeing
these symbols (actually, in one case, I believe one of the
abductees said she'd drawn them every since she was a child, and
suspected they might have something to do with what she believed
were her abductions). They told Budd about the symbols. Budd
asked them to draw them. When they'd finished, he didn't say
anything. Instead, he left the room, and came back with a
notebook in which were many other drawings abductees had made.
Both of these abductees were amazed, not to say overwhelmed. One
(a man) began crying. It was only at that point, he told me,
that he began to believe that his supposed abductions might
actually have been real.

A good while afterward - it might have been a couple of years -
- I asked Budd if I could see the symbols. By this time, we were
friends. He absolutely refused to show them to me, even though
he trusted me. He wanted them to be secret, so as not to
compromise later abductees who might draw them. (Though as we've
discussed, we have to trust his honesty here, and we can't be
absolutely sure the abductees didn't show the symbols to each
other.)

I got a little tough with him. I told him what I already knew,
and told him I could write about it if I wanted to, for
publication somewhere. I also told him - which was my real
point in getting tough - that if he had many samples, there was
no need to keep them confidential any longer. It was time to
show them to the world, and have them studied formally.

He gave in, and showed me the same notebook (he said) that he'd
shown the abductees I'd spoken to. And this was where I was
staggered. There were 14 extensive samples, from 14 people, each
with distinct handwriting. I've promised not to describe the
symbols, so I won't do that here. I can tell you that they were
distinct enough - different, that is, from any other symbols
I've ever seen - so that I'd recognize them instantly again.
Imagine that you'd been reading English all your life, never saw
any other alphabet, and suddenly saw 14 samples of printing in
Hebrew alphabet. That's how distinct and new the symbols were.

Another way I've conveyed how consistent they were is this.
Suppose they were like the dots and dashes of Morse Code. They
weren't anything like that, in actual fact, but suppose they
were. Every one of the 14 samples would have had nothing but
dots and dashes - absolutely nothing else. Not even a single
squiggle, diagonal line, circle, square, or anything else.
Nothing but dots and dashes. That's how consistent the 14
samples of these symbols were. They were all made up of the same
elements (which, by the way, is one way they differed from any
alphabet I know; they were made up of smaller parts, easy to
notice and remember). All of them have these same elements; none
of them had anything that wasn't built from these elements.

Later Budd told me that, in fact, he had 35 samples. He showed
them to me. Same story again - the additional 21 samples were
equally as consistent, both with the original 14 and with each
other. I believe he should publish them, exactly as he says he's
received them. At one point, JUFOS was interested in publishing
a study of the symbols, but it then ceased publication for a
while. I don't know if the project has ever gotten back on
track.

That's what I know about this subject. Anyone who's seen Budd's
notebooks, with the 35 samples of these allegedly remembered
symbols, each in a different handwriting, would have to be
impressed. Even die-hard debunkers (the kind who think
abductees, generally speaking, need psychiatric help, despite
numerous studies to the contrary) would have to grant that if
this is a hoax, it's a fairly monumental one. Unless, of course,
somebody thinks that Budd is hoaxing it.

Which, come to think of it, I suppose somebody might think,
given that on this list we've just had somebody confidently
declare that Budd tells his abductees that they've been
abducted. This somebody, of course, has had about as much
contact with Budd, his abductees, and his methods as I've had
with the Tasmanian royal family (should there be such a thing).
Hardcore UFO skeptics, I really must observe, may be more
regularly guilty of wishful thinking than any other class of
human beings I've ever observed, apart from tiny children.
(Well, some credulous UFO believers can be just as bad.) Just
look at Luis R. Gonzalez, and all his assumptions about
Katharina Wilson, which Katharina - a class act, if ever I've
seen one here - so patiently demolished.

And now Luis jumps - hope once more triumphing over experience
(though he doesn't seem to have processed his experience) - all
over the idea that poor Budd Hopkins may have been fooled by
someone claiming to be an abductee. Ha! says Luis. Didn't those
same people, the same ones saying Budd was fooled, also say that
Budd has reasonable checks on whether abductees are credible.
They're contradicting themselves!!!!!

Except... haven't we known, in other walks of life, reputable,
competent people who sometimes make mistakes? Budd, otherwise
careful, could have made a mistake here. Poor UFO investigators.
I guess they, alone of all humans, have to be completely,
utterly infallible.


Greg Sandow








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   Feb > Feb 10

                     Re: Review Of Sight Unseen - Harney

From: John Harney <magonia.nul>
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 22:17:07 -0000
Fwd Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 09:56:43 -0500
Subject: Re: Review Of Sight Unseen - Harney


>From: Stuart Miller <Stuart.Miller4.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 18:57:52 -0000
>Subject: Re: Review Of Sight Unseen

>>From: John Harney <magonia.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 21:29:44 -0000
>>Subject: Re: Review Of Sight Unseen

>Firstly, thank you for a direct and straight forward reply.
>Appreciated.

>Just a point I missed from your previous reply. There is plenty
>of physical evidence, namely scoop marks on abductees bodies.
>I'm guessing you might argue these are self inflicted or from
>any other source other than an alien abduction?

If someone visited his doctor and asked him to have a look at
his scoop marks, or other strange marks on his skin, the doctor
would presumably tell him what they were and prescribe
appropriate medication if necessary, or if he didn't know what
they were he would probably refer him to a dermatologist. I
don't think it likely that the doctor would explain that the
marks were caused by the Greys who use incredibly crude methods
for obtaining tissue samples - not even if he had read Budd
Hopkins's books.

The point I am trying to make is that in evaluating abduction
reports we should admit that some things are difficult to
explain in conventional terms, but at the same time we must
retain some grip on reality if we hope to be taken seriously. If
we don't expect to be taken seriously but just want to argue
among ourselves or entertain people then I suppose it doesn't
really matter.

>Firstly, it is a little unrealistic of you to wave away
>someone's lifetime work simply because they don't have the
>appropriate accademic accreditation, for that is what you are
>doing with Hopkins.And I seriously doubt he has ever persuaded
>anyone that they have been abducted. I am curious myself as to
>why I find your writing so irritating and I think it is because
>of the dismissive and somewhat haughty tone that is always
>there. You may not believe in abductions and think the whole
>phenomena is something "American",

Probably more South American than North American. Many early
reports came from South America, but the details were rather
different to the stories of the Greys as developed by Hopkins
and Jacobs. The Villas Boas case introduced the idea of
interbreeding with aliens. However, some of the early reports
were of failed attempts at abductions, the aliens being repelled
by shotgun blasts!

>with all that implies, but to
>be as abrupt as you are about this subject is being as unkind to
>abductees as you believe Hopkins and his colleagues are also
>being.

If I seem abrupt I am merely trying to avoid using meaningless
words to avoid getting to the point which is simply, as I have
said, that abductions must be either physical or psychological.
Imagine someone tells you he has bought an expensive new car. If
he takes you for a ride in it then you will know it is a real
one. If he keeps making excuses when you ask to have a look at
it, and you never get to see it, you will soon suspect that it
is imaginary. It would be rather meaningless, though, to say it
might be something in between

>You make mention above that "Some of these people obviously need
>the services of mental health professionals". As you've
>qualified it, what then is the position within your framework of
>those who claim to have been abducted but who, in your opinion,
>don't need psychiatric help? Delusional? Narcisstic? Surely any
>adjective you produce is one inclined to imply the individual
>needs professional help.

If their belief in abductions is disrupting their life and work
then they obviously need help. If such beliefs are not causing
serious problems then this is presumably not necessary. It's just
a matter of common sense. If they think they are being abducted
by aliens then they must be deluded unless they are _really_
being abducted by aliens. That's just simple logic.

>>Either abductions are physical, in which case the military would
>>be dealing with them - which does not seem to be happening - or
>>they are psychological, and treatment of such cases should be
>>left to professionals.

>Well, as you strike out the military option, what's left is that
>all abductees do indeed need help from professionals. As you're
>someone who, as we've already established, seems to hang a great
>deal of weight on a person's accademic qualifications, could you
>advise what your qualifications are that enable you to make such
>a statement with authority? Why should we accept what you say?

As I said above, they need professional help if their belief in
abductions is causing them serious problems. That is surely
obvious enough.

>What would be even worse John would be if you were to tell us
>that you were in the mental health profession yourself. Then
>you'd be guilty of making a diagnosis without even talking to
>the client. If what you are offering is a non professional
>opinion, to which of course you are entitled, then it behoves
>you to make that point clear and not present your thoughts as a
>done deal.

I'm not making a diagnosis, I'm just employing logic and common
sense. It's quite normal for people who have various delusions
to have professional treatment, and unless UFO abductions are
physically real events, then they must be delusions. I don't see
how one can wriggle out of it. If diagnoses are to be made they
should be made by mental health professionals, not by me or you
or Budd Hopkins.

>>I don't aim barbs at those who claim to have been abducted - I
>>am concerned about those who exploit them, by sensationalising
>>their accounts and claiming that abductions are physically real.

>But on that basis John, The Lancet and the rest of them may as
>well pack up and shut down if you remove from them the right,
>with the client/patient's permission, for contributors to review
>unusual or interesting cases. I suspect it's just in the case of
>abductions that you would prefer this to be the reality.

The doctors who write in The Lancet do not generally indulge in
fantastic speculations as to the causes of their patients'
illnesses.

>>There are many on this list who take a very indulgent attitude
>>to such people, but are constantly moaning that mainstream
>>science doesn't take ufology seriously.

>Let me fill in the blanks. This is because this is a serious
>List filled with serious and intelligent people and there should
>be no room here for nonsensical gibberish like talk of
>abductions. Can I suggest you visit the Virtually Strange Home
>page? Unless someone has held a gun to Errol's head, it would
>seem that the List Moderator and Site owner doesn't feel the
>same way. Would you like to be the one to tell him he needs
>professional help? Best of luck.

I would never presume to tell Errol what to allow on this List;
that would obviously be ridiculous.

>>I don't know what your problem with Magonia is. No one is forced
>>to read it. Those who don't like it can read the glossy UFO mags
>>instead, with their exciting stories about the latest cover-up
>>conspiracies, developments in anti-gravity propulsion, how the
>>space people built the Pyramids, and other such garbage.

>Unquestionably John, the tone and laguage in my previous posts
>to you neither served me well nor was appropriate for this List,
>and I apologise for that. But by way of an extremely small
>excuse for my reaction, this last paragraph just about sums it
>up. Your level of intollerance beggars belief. Do you have any
>respect for other people's ideas and beliefs if they don't
>corrspond with yours? Everything is dismissed, just like that. A
>wave of the hand, the chain is pulled, and it's all flushed
>away. I'm curious to ask just what exactly you do believe in in
>relation to the principal subject matter of this List?

I am not the only one on this List to be dismissing a great deal
of what passes for "ufology". There have been many posts
recently complaining of pseudo-scientific nonsense and crazy UFO
conferences. I realise that many people find this sort of stuff
entertaining, and they want to believe in it, or at least to
achieve a pleasant suspension of disbelief. Personally I find
wild speculation and downright lies masquerading as science or
scholarship profoundly irritating.


John Harney






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   Feb > Feb 10

             Re: Harrassment - Has It Happened To You? - Wilson

From: Katharina Wilson <K_Wilson.nul>
Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2004 17:46:57 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 10:12:45 -0500
Subject: Re: Harrassment - Has It Happened To You? - Wilson


>From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 11:26:54 EST
>Subject: Harrassment - Has It Happened To You?


>Often we read or hear or watch on TV where witnesses to UFO
>events, investigators and experiencers mention that they got a
'>visit' either by persons posing as government officials or bona
>fide government officials. Also stories of shadowy characters
>who seem to know more than the average bear.

>Since many of you have been in the fight either as researchers,
>skeptics, experiencers, has any of you ever been harrassed,
>warned or threatened?

>How did you handle it?

>Is this a real situation or overblown?


I haven't had any overt harassment, but there have been some
"interesting" things that have occurred over the years.

I started getting a lot of "clicking" sounds on my phone when I
lived in Portland. OR. Nothing like this happened prior to
living there or in my previous location until I published my
book.

After I wrote my book, "The Alien Jigsaw," I began hearing
clicks on the phone when I would talk (to basically anyone). It
became so noticeable, that I had the telephone repair people out
to my home several times, but they could never find a reason for
it.

During one call to the repair office, even the lady I was
registering the complaint with heard the clicks and found it
strange. Twice, she had someone check out the - can't remember
the exact term, but I think it is called a land-station or box
station for my area. I never used cordless phones, always a
"land line."  Nothing was found to be wrong there either.

After a few visits, I realized that each time the telephone
repair man would come to my home, it would be the same person. I
found that odd and stopped calling the repair office and decided
to just live with it.

I think I probably had them out to my home about five times.

* * *

After my book was published and I was communicating with a lot
of abductees, around six hours a day on the phone, I received
two phone calls separated by a couple of months' duration. I
would pick up the phone and the most beautiful music would be
playing.

I didn't know the music, but it was so beautiful - then, I would
suddenly hang up the phone thinking that there may be a
subminimal message contained in it. (Odd thought, but you never
know.)

I asked another abductee about it and she said she, too,
received phone calls from time to time where no one would say
anything, it would just be playing beautiful music. She also
lived in Portland, OR.

* * *

For a while during this same time, I would sometimes pick up my
phone to make a call and I would hear two men on the line
talking to one another. They were with INS of all things.

They would immediately hear the click of my line engaging
theirs, and would become so paranoid, they would say, "This is
INS! Who is this!?"

This happened several times over the course of a couple of weeks
and then stopped. These guys would immediately alert one
another, - saying, "Do you here that?  Do you hear that?"

They would then stop talking and hang up.

* * *

During one conversation between by husband and my father - 3000
miles apart, they were talking and a third voice (a male voice)
very clearly stated, "See, it works."

My husband asked my father, "Did you hear that?" and my father
replied in the affirmative.

* * *

I started carrying a camera with me everywhere I went when I
lived in Portland and one day my husband and I were followed
home by someone driving a large white van with darkened windows.

It was very obvious that it was following us and since I had my
camera, I decided to act.

We pulled into the driveway and I immediately got out of the
car. The van suddenly stopped and turned around in the middle of
the road in front of our house and sped away, but I got a
photograph of the back of it. I never had it enlarged to try to
find the licence plate number because it never happened again.


* * *

After moving to North Carolina, the clicking sounds on the phone
resumed, but only when talking about certain topics like
"experiences" or the war or things associated with the war. The
clicking sounds also occur just after ET experiences, but I
ignore them as best I can.

With Echelon and probably other listening capabilities of the
NSA, there's no telling why the clicks are happening now.

* * *

I do know that "Lisa" - published in "Project Open Mind" on my
Web site (as well as Lammers' "MILABS" and Karla Turner's
"Taken" has reported heavy harassment from black helicopters.
She has sent me numerous photographs of them flying over her
house (so low that her windows rattle). One time her back door
opened from the vibrations of a helicopter flying over head.

She has told me several times that she has received threatening
phone calls from anonymous sources just after experiences
telling her not to talk about her experiences.

Check out my site, but click on the original (archived) Web site
accessible from the Title page. Go to the second half of
"Project Open Mind."

http://www.alienjigsaw.com

You can check out Karla's book "Taken" for more, in depth
reports about government or government types intervening in the
lives of abductees.

Getting into a "grayer" area, are the MILAB experiences of
abductees. MILAB abductees remember quite a bit that would fit
into the category of being harassed, or even worse, by people
wearing all black jump-suit type clothing, military uniforms,
plain clothes, you name it, but they are convinced they are
humans, and not aliens using "camouflage" or screen memories.

http://www.alienjigsaw.com/Part_IV/newmib.html

Check out Eve Lorgen's Web site and Michelle Gruerin's site.
They have also written about these types of things happening as
well.

And, probably the latest most detailed account I can highly
recommend is Leah Haley's book, "Unlocking Alien Closets." She
also has a Web site: search Greenleaf publications.

http://www.greenleafpublications.com

http://www.alienlovebite.com

http://members.aol.com/nymush/sands.html

Hope this helps


Katharina Wilson








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   Feb > Feb 10

                        Professor Searches For Aliens

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2004 14:48:55 -0800
Fwd Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 10:15:03 -0500
Subject: Professor Searches For Aliens


Source: The Crimson Daily News

http://www.thecrimson.com/article.aspx?ref=3D357295

February 09, 2004


Professor Searches for Aliens

Some professors like to communicate with students=97others, with
aliens.

Physics and Electrical Engineering Professor Paul Horowitz '65
says he's convinced that communicating with extraterrestrial
life will soon be within scientists' reach.

Horowitz, who has taught physics at Harvard since 1974, is a
leading figure in the official Search for Extra-Terrestrial
Intelligence (SETI)=97a national project devoted to identifying
intelligent life outside our galaxy, with hubs at Harvard and
Princeton.

Lounging in his newly renovated office in Jefferson Lab,
Horowitz says he is excited about the future of SETI and his own
involvement in the search.

"We're basically asking how would we communicate with these
intelligent life forms without going over to [visit] them on a
rocket," Horowitz says.

And he quickly debunks the notion that extraterrestrial life is
unworthy of academic investigation.

"They've found that at least 100 planets exist outside our solar
system. What happened here [on Earth] is probably very typical,"
he says. "Somewhere, the magic happens that leads to self-
reproducing organisms."

Horowitz says people first became interested in extraterrestrial
life in the mid-19th century.

But he points to the discovery of the radio telescope in the
1960s, which he began working with in the 1970s, as the time
when people realized communication over galactic distances might
be possible.

The discovery, Horowitz says, seemed the perfect alternative to
expensive space travel and past attempts to measure charged
particles, which bend in magnetic fields such as those in space.

Beam Me Up

Recent developments, however, have demonstrated the superiority
of optical laser SETI over radio=97and Horowitz has helped pioneer
this technology.

He explains that extraterrestrials are most likely contacting
humans by aiming laser beams at receivers on earth. These beams,
Horowitz believes, will illuminate their planet or star of
origin to a level 5,000 times brighter than the sun.

"When a laser pulse is aimed from a certain star, the star
illuminates for a moment so that we can see it," he explains.
"We only do receiving."

Horowitz says that he and physics graduate student Andrew Howard
use a complex optical telescope to search the night sky for such
flashes of light. The telescope has sensitive light detectors at
its focus and measures five feet across its bottom.

The actual optical telescope is operated by a team at the
Oakridge Observatory in Harvard, Mass.

While Horowitz says he has detected some flashes, he has yet to
confirm their extraterrestrial origin.

Horowitz says that he can currently only observe a limited
number of targeted stars but looks forward to developing what
will be called the All-Sky telescope within a year or so.

This telescope, which will be complete once a detector apparatus
is installed, will be able to observe the entire sky=9710,000
times more area than the team currently covers.

"We're only myopically looking at stars now," he says.

He anticipates the All-Sky will allow his team to investigate
not only stars, but the spaces in between them where he suspects
that advanced civilizations may roam between various stars and
planets.

He adds that his research is focused on "calculation, not
speculation" and brims over with enthusiasm for the optical
SETI.

Light Years Away?

Howard and Horowitz work concurrently with researchers at
Princeton who make simultaneous observations. Each team
generates observational diagrams, including the stars observed,
the number of observations made and the signals detected.

According to Howard, the teams' findings always match.

"Combined, the two results have never produced a false
positive," he says.

Jill Tarter, the Bernard M. Oliver Chair for SETI at the SETI
Institute in California, calls the project with Princeton "very
innovative and clever."

She describes the Sky Survey instrument Horowitz already uses as
"typically Paul=97typically creative and inventive."

To Horowitz, the future of SETI seems both daunting and
enthralling.

"SETI hasn't succeeded yet, so it's clearly got a ways to go,"
he says.

Of the 20,000 observations his telescope has made, Horowitz
says, no decidedly conclusive observations have been reached.

Still, he says that he and Howard are excited about the coming
years.

"We like trying new and different things," he says.

Other astronomers, such as Dr. Joseph Lazio of the Naval
Research Laboratory, are more skeptical of the project's short-
term success, but affirm the significance of the study.

"Will we have success in the near future? Define 'near,'" he
says. "In the next 100 years? Many astronomers are hoping that
in the next 20 years, we'll be finding Earth-like planets."

Tarter also says she foresees some difficulties with Horowitz's
All-Sky project, namely the unpredictable New England weather.

"Can you do something about the weather in Massachusetts?" she
asks jokingly. "You need a lot of clear nights for the survey,
and it's going to take a lot of time to get 100 clear nights."

Still, Tarter says she supports Horowitz's general project.

"All this UFO, alien abduction garbage attached to SETI [is]
what makes money, what people find sexy," she says. "But the
real SETI is a valid scientific exploration."

She reminds any naysayers of the project's monumental
significance.

"We have this opportunity now to answer the age old question:
are we alone? I feel very privileged to do something which might
have some impact on society," she says.

Horowitz says it is that very possibility that motivates him to
keep searching the sky each night.

"My long view is, it's not a question of 'if', it's a question
of 'when'", he says. "We're gonna contact them someday."







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   Feb > Feb 10

              Re: Harrassment - Has It Happened To You? - Boone

From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 23:47:42 EST
Fwd Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 10:17:18 -0500
Subject: Re: Harrassment - Has It Happened To You? - Boone


>From: Nick Pope <nick.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 21:38:50 -0000
>Subject: Re: Harrassment - Has It Happened To You?

>>From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 11:26:54 EST
>>Subject: Harrassment - Has It Happened To You?

>I'll give you a slightly different perspective on this, in that
>I've worked on the UK Ministry of Defence's UFO project, and
>have had it put to me that my predecessors and I have engaged in
>such activities.

>I don't deny that there are some witnesses in the UK who have
>received visits from military or Ministry of Defence personnel.
>This doesn't tend to happen now, but did in the past, as part of
>the investigative process into sightings.

>I wouldn't rule out the possibility that some witnesses were
>asked not to talk about their sightings, but I don't think this
>is necessarily as sinister as it sounds. Particularly in the
>Fifties and Sixties, I suspect this was a natural consequence of
>the Cold War mentality and the prevailing cultu=D8=F8 re of secrecy. A
>firm request not to discuss matters may have been misconstrued
>as a threat, especially in the case of members of the public who
>had not had previous dealings with the military.

>There's another issue to factor in. There have been numerous
>incidents involving bogus paramedics and ambulance staff, social
>workers, priests, military personnel, etc. In some cases the
>deception has been carried out for monetary or sexual reasons.
>But in other cases, we seem to be dealing with a form of mental
>disorder. I hesitate to use the phrase 'Walter Mitty', but
>believe it may be appropriate in this instance. If some people
>derive gratification from pretending to be paramedics, is it not
>understandable that others may enjoy pretending to be with a
>government agency whose job it is to suppress information about
>UFOs? Films like Men in Black probably don't help here.

>And I wouldn't entirely rule out the possibility that some
>people might go to see a witness they'd heard about in the
>media, pretending to be from a government agency, in order to
>extract information.

>I realise that my comments are unlikely to be appreciated by
>all, but would like to assure List members that I have not been
>involved in harassing UFO witnesses, and am unaware of any
>instances where my predecessors or successors have done so.


Thank you Nick Pope for clearing that up.

It's very enlightening to get data from the source!

What you've presented brings alot to the table.

If your government didn't engage in harrassment or threats against
UFO witnesses/whistleblowers/researchers etc. Then who did if any?

Are U.K. citizens open to discussion and disclosure of this subject
more than their U.S. cousins?

Here in the U.S. we're rife with stories of such threats and harrassments.
I've had four such incidents personally but none from official government
sources. It begs to query whom did these persons represent then?

The stories from Roswell to Kecksburg have some who state that they
were threatened and/or harrassed by officials. That's why I've asked.

We're dealing with several levels here:

Officials
Covert Officials
Private groups and individuals
Covert Private groups and individuals

If one were to entertain all the stories of 'secret people' arriving and
threatening witnesses, one would suspect some form of stealth and
liberty akin to some Hollywood script.

There's more here than meets the eye and we've all got a responsibility
to dig deeper and bring to light who these people are and whom and
what agenda do they represent.


Best,

Greg








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   Feb > Feb 10

                             Services/UFO/Space?

From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2004 23:19:47 -0800
Fwd Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 10:22:29 -0500
Subject: Services/UFO/Space?


Hello all:


Did anyone else get the message below?

It sounds like somebody is casting a very wide net here, and I'm
wondering what its all about. Would such a grand undertaking
start out from a hotmail account?


Just curious

- Larry Hatch

-------- Original Message --------

From: "Tel Dog" <teldog2002.nul>
To: larryhatch.nul
Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2004 16:07:14 +0000
Subject: Services/Ufo/Space


Hello,

I represent a company that is currently building a website
incorporating various forums such as Music and reviews, Law and
live Law feeds, Sports news, live scores and live feeds, TV
listings and Sky channel listings with synopsis, Environment and
live feeds, Student Term Papers plus Student forums, Pen Pals,
Forces� Pen Pals, Children�s Stories and Games, Home, Health and
Fitness, Lost Connections and missing People, Dating, Chat
rooms, a Space, Astronomy and UFO forum, an Online Games forum
and a Cinema and reviews forum amongst other features. We think
our users will find this variety very interesting and hope to
forge a real sense of community amongst members.

We would be very grateful if you could help us by letting us
know if you can provide a service for the UFO/Space/Astronomy
Forum, possibly by recommending some critics and writers to do
reviews and answer any questions that our users would like to
put to the experts. We are open to suggestions of areas where
you may be able to help. Contributors would, of course, be
remunerated accordingly.

I would be very grateful if you could find the time to reply to
this request. Any help or advice you could offer would be very
welcome.

Thank you in anticipation,

Terry.









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   Feb > Feb 10

                    Prince George British Columbia Lights

From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO <hbccufo.nul>
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 23:19:55 -0800
Fwd Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 14:52:07 -0500
Subject: Prince George British Columbia Lights


On the evening of February 31, 2004 a large number of Prince
George residents were stunned and puzzled over what they were
witnessing in the night sky between 8:00 - 10:00 p.m., PST. Some
called the Prince George Citizen newspaper to explain what it
was they saw, and how peculiar it was. All of the witnesses, by
the dozens, observed two extremely bright, orange circular
lights in the sky. The lights stayed fairly close together and
did not make any sudden moments. Many residents reported the
lights just hanging there for a number of minutes before moving
ever so slightly. HBCC UFO Research was contacted by the Prince
George Citizen enquiring about it, and a staff reporter did an
interview for Saturday, February 7, 2004, newspaper.

Over the weekend the telephone did not stop ringing. Many
reports of orange lights came in from Prince George residents.
Plus other very interesting reports for 2003 and back as far as
the 1950s. Some of these reports included beams of lights
hitting their vehicles as they travelled along the highway. A
huge ball of light hovering over the tree tops not making any
sound. A line of red balls of light sitting stationary in the
night sky, etc...

After taking the calls and listening to the stories, some of the
descriptions started me thinking. More folks contacted me. Some
had watched the whole event unfold viewing the lights through
binoculars. A retired military man was certainly the key to this
case. Plus another lady who also gave a great description of the
event.

I made several enquiries to the RCMP but the police had no
information about the matter and took no calls from the general
public over it.

I typed up a few reports below from the eye witnesses who called
in.

Report #1
Report received February 7, 2004
Prince George, British Columbia

Date: January 30, 2004
Time: Between 8:00 & 9:00 p.m.

I had a call from a lady on February 7, 2004 who wanted to file
a report on something she and her husband witnessed as they were
driving down Tabor from 15th. They looked to the east and saw
lights in the sky and thought at first it may have been an
airplane. The witnesses mentioned they saw no strobe lights
which they knew an aircraft would have. They reported the lights
were moving rather slowly. As they drove down the road they
passed by the trees which blocked their view of the lights in
the sky. After they came to a clear area, they stopped the car
and looked to the south and again noticed the lights.

The witnesses told me that when they saw it again, this time it
appeared to look like a black balloon, or umbrella shape.

The lady said it looked as if the object would flip over, so the
umbrella appearance was at the bottom and then would show up
back on top. The lady and husband reported not a sound coming
from it and whatever it was dropped downwards. The couple
reported the lights as being white in color. The witnesses
estimated they observed the event for approx: 5 minutes.

The folks didn't believe the object was very far from their
location and said it wasn't that high up when they first saw it.
Also they finally lost sight of the lights when they dropped
down low enough that homes finally blocked their view. The
people estimated the size to be roughly that of a golf ball. One
other note, the witnesses said they believed that the lights
were moving diagonally as they came closer to the ground.

Thank you to the witnesses for their report.

Report #2
Report received February 7, 2004
Prince George, British Columbia

Date: January 31, 2004
Time: Between 9:00 - 9:30 p.m.

A gentleman called to report seeing the orange lights witnessed
over Prince George on January 31, 2004. He and his wife live
near 1st & Foothills in Prince George and were planning an
evening out when the walked out of their home, which faces
towards the downtown area they noticed the two orange colored
lights in the night sky. They said the lights were very bright
and that is what caught their attention. The witness went on to
say he is used to seeing helicopters and fixed winged aircraft
flying over all the time, but what he could not understand was
the brightness of the lights, also how close the lights were to
one another. The couple stood just outside their front door
watching the lights for a good three minutes, but due to them
having reservations they had to get on their way. The husband
wondered if it might be a UFO, his wife said it possibly might
be a plane, but both still thought it looked rather odd. He told
me he almost dismissed it at that time. But as they drove along
1st Avenue heading towards Tabor and not traveling very far the
fellow decide it was time to pull the car over as he said one
doesn't get to see anything like this very often or ever.

As they both sat watching, they were able to get a good view of
what was taking place. One of the orange lights appeared to be
over top of the other or maybe off to a bit of an angle to the
left. Another 3 to 4 minutes passed and the bottom light started
dropping off towards the left and seemed to flicker a little
bit. He thought it may have been going into some of the light
clouds that were present that evening, then all of a sudden the
light disappeared. The other light was still visible and stayed
around the same area in the sky for a little while longer. The
witness estimated the last light held it's brilliance for maybe
another 30 seconds before it started to flicker. It began to
fade and then would become very bright again.

This went on for a very short period of time before it to
vanished.

Again it was lightly overcast with a high ceiling. The witness
also estimated the objects were roughly a finger length apart if
one was to hold out their hand at arms length. The witness
stated that the lights did sit stationary for some of the time,
before moving. The witnesses reported no sound was heard, and no
aircraft were seen in the area. At arm's length, using his
thumbnail to guess at an approx: size of the lights, he said
each one may have been one fifth of the size of his nail.

Thank you to the witnesses for their report.

Report #3
Report received February 7, 2004
Prince George, British Columbia

Date: January 31, 2004
Time: approx: 9:30 p.m.

Calls kept coming into HBCC UFO Research over the January 31,
2004 sighting in Prince George, B.C.

Below is another report from a fellow who wanted to tell me what
he witnessed that evening. The evening was overcast and no stars
were visible at the time of the sighting. The man went on to
tell me that his daughter spotted it first and then called to
the rest of the family to come out and look at the strange
lights in the sky which were reported to be just over top of one
of the local mountains. He explained that the color of the
lights were an orange/white. The witness also said he thought
there may have been a small tail behind each of the lights, but
it was hard to distinguish for certain. The lights were
stationary for a very short time when these folks noticed them
and as they watched, the lights did start to move but ever so
slightly.

They said there were two very bright lights which looked
identical to one another. The man's wife said they looked like
landing lights from an aircraft due to how close they were
together, and the brightness of them. They all ruled this out
quickly as the lights just stayed in the one area of the sky.
They observed the lights rise up for a short distance, still
staying close to one another. As they watched one of the lights
seemed to disappear quickly, but they didn't think it went into
the clouds as he noted the cloud ceiling was rather high that
night and the lights weren't close to them.

The other remaining light was seen to move back, or away from
the families location and it also disappeared. Both lights were
extremely bright, and the family said they stayed that way until
they finally blinked out, or just vanished.

These folks figured they watched the lights for at least two
minutes before they were gone. The man said, how long they were
visible before he noticed them is anyone's guess. They also
reported no sound and the witnesses said if it had a plane or
helicopter you would have certainly have heard it. The folks
estimated that the lights were approx: 10 times larger than
their thumbnail.

Thank you to the family for their report.

Report #4
Report received February 7, 2004
Prince George, British Columbia

Date: January 31, 2004
Time: approx: 9:30 - 10:00 p.m.

Now this was a very interesting call that I received from a man
who resides in Prince George, B.C. When I answered the phone,
the fellow said he had just read their local newspaper and that
he could tell me exactly what the lights were that everyone saw
that evening. Below is the report the gentleman gave to me.

The fellow said he watched the whole event through a pair of
field glasses. It was January 31, 2004, between 9:30 - 10:00
p.m. and the man claims "it" landed two blocks from his home.
The witness said what he watched was a couple of night jumpers,
jumping with parachutes with lights attached around their feet
or ankles. The man observed them coming over from the west over
the hill. He mentioned that he had a fairly strong set of
glasses (binoculars) and was clearly able to see the jumpers
hanging in their chutes and saw when they turned their lights
off. One of them landed in a park just two blocks away from the
witnesses home and the other went towards the Fraser River and
the BCR Railway. The gentleman figured the were practicing night
jumping.

When the jumpers were first spotted they were rather high up and
he and his wife first thought it may have been an airplane. He
went on to say the lights were a very bright orange in color,
and the reason they were no longer visible was simply because
they had turned them off.  The fellow, now retired, was in the
military himself and had done a lot of jumping and as soon as he
spotted the orange lights he thought it looked familiar due to
the descent, plus the way the lights were traveling. When he
looked through his binoculars he knew exactly what it was he was
seeing.

He figured the jumpers used their lights to keep track of each
other and to designate where they were going to. Once they
started getting closer to the ground they turned off their
lights and just used the lights from the city to land. He also
said the chutes were beautiful, very modern shaped parachutes
and the jumpers with such good gear were able to carry out some
of the antics they pulled off that cold evening. It was actually
comical as the witness said one of the jumpers almost turned
himself upside down and then this would give the impression of
the lights going back up into the night sky. The two jumpers
were carrying out some acrobatics on their way and obviously no
sound was reported.

Thank you very much to the witnesses for their reports.

Brian Vike

Director HBCC UFO Research
Canadian Toll Free UFO Hotline 1 866 262 1989 - Free call.
Home - Phone 1 250 845 2189
email: hbccufo.nul
Website: http://www.hbccufo.com







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                  Stupidity In The New Age Of Anti-Science

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 05:48:54 -0800
Fwd Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 14:53:27 -0500
Subject: Stupidity In The New Age Of Anti-Science


Source: The Scotsman

http://news.scotsman.com/opinion.cfm?id=3D160812004

10 February 2004


Stupidity in the new age of anti-science

Gillian Bowditich

SOME 3.7 million people claim to have been abducted by aliens.
Only 11 per cent of Americans believe in evolution. Type "Flat
Earth Society" into the Google search engine on the internet and
you will have a choice of 466,000 sites. How did we get this
stupid?

One explanation is that the aliens doing all that abducting have
been removing people=92s brains. Perhaps there is a UFO pathology
laboratory hovering somewhere over Bonnybridge with the sum of
our collective senses pickled in jars.

How else are we to explain the phenomenon of what the
philosopher Roger Scruton describes as "reason on the retreat,
both as an ideal and a reality"? It=92s not just that we have
become a nation of gullible, emotionally incontinent, deeply
irrational sentimentalists. Nor that, where once we would have
hidden our credulousness, we now proudly wear it on our
distressed linen sleeves. It is the fact that this stupidity is
officially sanctioned, pandered to and incorporated into our
laws.

The latest example of this is the Human Tissues Bill currently
going through Parliament. This bill is the government=92s response
to the organ retention outcry at Royal Liverpool Children=92s
Hospital in Alder Hey five years ago. If it becomes law, the use
for research purposes of tissue samples, blood and even urine
specimens, without specific patient consent, will be illegal.
The penalty for a doctor flouting that law will be up to three
years in jail.

According to Cancer Research UK and the Wellcome Trust, two of
the biggest and best respected medical research organisations in
the world, this bill could stifle advances in childhood
leukaemia, cancer, SARS and AIDS. Already ten research projects
on rare tumours in children have either folded or failed to
start because of the difficulties in carrying out this kind of
scientific research in the current hysterical climate. Mark
Walport, director of the Wellcome Trust, believes that if this
bill were effective now, the work that led to the discovery of
genes responsible for the most common inherited form of breast
cancer might not be possible. It could even be a criminal
offence to try. The Royal College of Pathologists is extremely
concerned about the situation and even the Medical Research
Council, the government-funded organisation, has serious doubts
about the bill.

So the government is rethinking this shoddily drafted piece of
legislation which is likely to clog the system with yet more
bureaucracy, restrict vital research and unwittingly criminalise
doctors? Wrong. The government is pressing ahead. It is doing so
because it is more worried about determined pressure groups
which will resort to emotional blackmail than it is about
stifling vital medical research.

There is no question that the guidelines surrounding organ
retention needed to be overhauled after it became clear that the
practice was widespread. Nor is there any doubt that a group of
people who had already suffered the appalling tragedy of losing
a child, were further upset when they discovered that some of
their loved one=92s organs had been retained without their
knowledge. But the emotive language which has been used in
relation to these cases is a scandal in itself. "We will never
know how many were butchered for their organs," ran one tabloid
headline. The children were referred to as "torn souls". An
alien, reading the Daily Record while waiting for a passing
human to abduct, could have been forgiven for believing Burke
and Hare were on the loose.

The dangerous and insulting premise of the new legislation is
that doctors, if not legislated against, will do unspeakable
things to the rest of us. But even the one rogue pathologist who
caused so much upset at Alder Hey was not killing people. He was
saving lives.

Some of the bereaved have now formed themselves into the
Nationwide Organ Retention Group. They have received apologies,
explanations, a change in clinical practice, an ex-gratia offer
of damages and will soon have a new law. But this is not enough.
They now want compensation, despite the fact that this will
haemorrhage vital funds from an already indebted NHS.

Their lawyer, the deliciously named Mervyn Fudge, says some of
his clients have been unable to work because of the trauma they
have suffered in discovering that body parts had been taken from
relatives without permission. They will need compensation for
loss of earnings as well as compensation for suffering.

Why is nobody prepared to stand up to these chancers? The reason
is that the ultimate crime in these touchy-feely times is not
ignorance or irrationality but lack of empathy. Politicians lack
the courage to condemn this madness even when it means the
potential for real harm to be done to those dependent on medical
research for their health.

This cowardliness on the part of the authorities is being
exploited by extreme groups opposed to all kinds of scientific
progress, be it genetic modification, therapeutic cloning or
animal testing. In the last few months they have scored several
victories. Cambridge University has dropped its plans for a =A332
million primate-research centre for the study of diseases such
as Alzheimer=92s and Parkinson=92s because of security fears. Colin
Blakemore, head of the Medical Research Council was dropped as a
potential candidate for an honour because of New Labour=92s
squeamishness about animal testing. Hunting and fur-farming have
been banned by New Labour. The ease with which these lobby
groups are able to infiltrate and influence government is
alarming.

The rest of us may not be firebombing the homes of scientists,
but we happily swallow all manner of genetically modified
bunkum, be it "molecularly restructured" designer water at =A33 a
bottle, or the latest scare story.

Previous generations had their superstitions, but they had a
fundamental belief in the ability of science to improve their
quality of life. They were proved right. Within three
generations, life expectancy in Britain rose by 30 years. In the
half century after the Second World War, infant mortality fell
from 50 deaths per 1,000 births to fewer than six. For good
measure, science threw in the internet, talking pictures and the
self-cleaning oven.

Science equalled progress and was seen as an almost universally
good thing. Our grandparents may have balked at seating 13 at
the dinner table, but they would never have argued that teaching
children about feng shui was as important as teaching them the
second law of thermodynamics.

Now, in our age of unreason and anti-science, life expectancy is
set to fall for the first time, the fate of tissue samples and
diseased organs has become more important than the welfare of
the living, and the government has announced that alternative
treatments such as Indian ayurvedic medicine could be granted
the same status as conventional medicine on the NHS. According
to Francis Wheen=92s brilliant new book, How Mumbo Jumbo Conquered
The World, the 36,000 general practitioners in this country are
now outnumbered by the 50,000 purveyors of complementary and
alternative medicine.

If that=92s what you want, fine. Just remember, while you are
sitting under your pyramid reordering your charkas and
rebalancing your energy flow, not to get cancer. And be careful
not to venture too close to the edge of the world. You wouldn=92t
want to fall off now, would you?










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   Feb > Feb 10

                Oxygen Detected In Wake Of Extrasolar Planet

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 06:20:58 -0800
Fwd Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 14:54:30 -0500
Subject: Oxygen Detected In Wake Of Extrasolar Planet


Source: The News Sentinel

http://www.fortwayne.com/mld/newssentinel/7911756.htm

Mon, Feb. 09, 2004

Oxygen detected in wake of extrasolar planet
The Dallas Morning News

(KRT) - Astronomers have discovered oxygen on a planet outside
the solar system - but not, sadly for sci-fi addicts, the kind
of oxygen that extraterrestrial critters could breathe.

Oxygen and carbon atoms are flying away from a planet that
orbits the star HD 209458, which is 150 light-years (900
trillion miles) away. The oxygen and carbon most likely came
from the planet's lower atmosphere, where they once existed in
stable molecules such as water and methane.

Alfred Vidal-Madjar, an astronomer in Paris, and his colleagues
made the discovery by studying HD 209458 with the Hubble Space
Telescope. Every 3 1/2 days, the planet passes directly in front
of its parent star, creating a three-hour eclipse as seen from
Earth. The astronomers took advantage of these eclipses to study
the huge gaseous atmosphere being ripped away from the planet by
the star's powerful gravitational pull.

The findings will appear soon in Astrophysical Journal Letters.

Scientists have unofficially dubbed the planet Osiris, after the
ancient Egyptian god who was ripped to pieces to prevent his
return to life after being murdered.









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             Re: Harrassment - Has It Happened To You? - Warren

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 06:38:20 -0800
Fwd Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 14:55:31 -0500
Subject: Re: Harrassment - Has It Happened To You? - Warren


>From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 11:26:54 EST
>Subject: Harrassment - Has It Happened To You?

>Often we read or hear or watch on TV where witnesses to UFO
>events, investigators and experiencers mention that they got a
>'visit' either by persons posing as government officials or bona
>fide government officials. Also stories of shadowy characters
>who seem to know more than the average bear.

>Since many of you have been in the fight either as researchers,
>skeptics, experiencers, has any of you ever been harrassed,
>warned or threatened?

>How did you handle it?

>Is this a real situation or overblown?


Good Day Greg,

Interesting topic - -thanks for injecting it. I'll offer this
tidbit: First known mention of the MIB, to the best of my
knowledge was with "Harold Dahl" in the "Maury Island Incident"
which of course preceded Roswell. Many thought/think Dahl
concocted the whole UFO story,as well as the MIB element, but
what isn't widely known is the MIB, or what a surviving family
member conveyed to me as, "government men" also "threatened"
another witness to the event.

Separately, I have two letters in the file from well-known
Ufologists active n the 60's that were contacted and grilled
from an individual (possibly the same man) who said he was from
the Air Force; just questions, no intimidation with these
events.


Regards,

Frank Warren









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             Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Williams

From: Walt Williams <walt_williams.nul>
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 05:59:08 +0000
Fwd Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 14:58:02 -0500
Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Williams


>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2004 16:29:17 -0800
>Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph

>>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
>>To:  ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 13:35:02 -0400
>>Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph

>>>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 06:12:10 -0800
>>>Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph


Hello Larry, Amy and All,

Regarding URL:

http://a-realitycheck.com/whittleseaufo/analysis.htm

Just tossing in my three worthless cents.

Been reading the thread about the insect idea. Amy has done well
in her presentation. The question in my mind after reviewing her
work becomes...how far away from the camera and how large would
the insect need be to appear as 'it' presumably does in the
digital image.  Also the make and model of the camera  would be
useful to know.

Morphing an insect image model (generated via the Corel Bryce
program) to **MATCH** the original digital image is in my
opinion, cooking the data somewhat...and it may be argued that
it biases the conclusion in a particular direction. However, it
is fascinating glimpse into an alternative perspective and
nicely done.  If the 'insect' model was simply rotated and
scaled without changing the model geometry dimensions then that
would be pretty good evidence provided an actual insect phyla
model was employed, however if the model's dimensions was
altered then who knows what its value might be? Also, using an
authentic insect phyla as the comparitive standard in difference
to that (I presume) of a random creation of an artist's notion
of an insect could show plausible viability of the 'insect'
idea. It would be interesting to determine the insect model data
pedigree.

Interesting how these things reveal other useful information,
such as it appears that the insect is coasting, i.e., the wings
may not be flapping.  It seems that most insects don't coast, as
small insect's wings do not typically have enough surface area
to provide unpowered lift. Another curiosity, why is there so
much ?'motion'? blurring on the front to back axis, and
apparently more so than the wings? Seems one would want need to
know a little about the camera workings too, characteristics
such as the CCD imager array integration time. Knowing this will
reveal how fast an image is integrated and also give some notion
as to periodocity of wing motion, i.e., flapping speed, etc.
 Also, there seems to be much environment blurring around the
immediate area of the image object, wonder what caused that?
Again, might be a characteristic of the dithering algorythm used
in the imaging processing software of the camera? Be that as it
may, many suspected ET objects exhibit similar blurring which is
thought to be caused by a surrounding high energy field which is
said to ionize the atmosphere, another possible explanation.

Best Wishes,

Walt Williams,

walt_williams.nul
===================================

Walt Williams,

Director
Search for ExtraTerrestrial Visitation (SETV)
Northridge California, 91367, USA
http://www.setv.org

walt_williams.nul
===================================







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               Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Shell

From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 09:00:52 -0600
Fwd Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 14:59:39 -0500
Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Shell


>From: Martin Shough <mshough.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 21:13:10 -0000
>Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph

>>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2004 16:29:17 -0800
>>Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph

>>>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 13:35:02 -0400
>>>Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph

>Whether the photographer's companion saw it _is_ a real issue.
>Whether anyone on the passing train saw it is a real issue. The
>answer appears to be "no" in both cases. It isn't impossible that
>no-one saw a supersonic or hypersonic discoid several times the
>angular diameter of the moon hurtling over the landscape. But
>neither is it impossible that nobody paid any attention to a
>bird, either. Either way it is a material issue.

>>To my untrained eye, and allowing for the cautions Dan made
>>regarding altered colors, it looks more and more like a flying
>>insect (note the wings) and less like the domed saucer shape I
>>thought I had made out earlier.

>>What it doesn't look like (to me) is a bird.
>To me it _still_ does look like a bird. The 'buglike' shape is
>possibly due to the motion blur. Birds flap their wings
>relatively slowly; insects rapidly.

I could look like either a bird or a bug to me, except I don't
see any indication of a head or tail. If it was a beetle,
perhaps the blurry left portion could be legs, maybe.

As I've said, there are much clearer pictures of "real" UFOs out
there to worry about. Even if this one was completely in focus
and showed a solid-looking metallic disk, where does that get
us? Curiously, nowhere further. It could still be an old pie
plate or a balloon or a visitor from the Moon or a secret
Australian aeroplane test. No way to tell. File.

(BTW, just because it looked like a beetle doesn't mean it
wasn't a probe from the Moon Men. If I had the technology, I'd
make all my probes look like insects. ;^)








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                    Re: Review Of Sight Unseen - Bourdais

From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais.nul>
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 16:40:51 +0100
Fwd Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 15:01:05 -0500
Subject: Re: Review Of Sight Unseen - Bourdais


>From: Greg Sandow <greg.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 16:39:43 -0500
>Subject: Re: Review Of Sight Unseen

>>From: Nick Pope <nick.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 20:10:52 -0000
>>Subject: Re: Review Of Sight Unseen

<snip>

>Which, come to think of it, I suppose somebody might think,
>given that on this list we've just had somebody confidently
>declare that Budd tells his abductees that they've been
>abducted. This somebody, of course, has had about as much
>contact with Budd, his abductees, and his methods as I've had
>with the Tasmanian royal family (should there be such a thing).
>Hardcore UFO skeptics, I really must observe, may be more
>regularly guilty of wishful thinking than any other class of
>human beings I've ever observed, apart from tiny children.
>(Well, some credulous UFO believers can be just as bad.) Just
>look at Luis R. Gonzalez, and all his assumptions about
>Katharina Wilson, which Katharina - a class act, if ever I've
>seen one here - so patiently demolished.

Greg, Nick and List,

Thank you for all this very interesting information. It confirms
what I knew already.

Mr Gonzalez has just made on this List a demonstration of
wishful thinking and a priori judgement, regarding the story of
Katharina Wilson, whom we must all thank to have put the record
straight. Mr Gonzalez is not in a good position to question a
researcher like Budd Hopkins, to say the least.

Having finished to read his book, I confirm my opinion that it
is a very intersting contribution. The last part offers thoughts
about the question of genetic manipulations, and possibly
related cattle mutilations.


Gildas Bourdais







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                       Re: Services/UFO/Space? - Groff

From: Terry Groff <terry.nul>
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 10:18:36 -0600
Fwd Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 15:02:19 -0500
Subject: Re: Services/UFO/Space? - Groff


>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2004 23:19:47 -0800
>Subject: Services/UFO/Space?

>Hello all:

>Did anyone else get the message below?

>It sounds like somebody is casting a very wide net here, and I'm
>wondering what its all about. Would such a grand undertaking
>start out from a hotmail account?

>Just curious


I'm always leery of anything that comes from a hotmail account.
I only have a couple of friends that use hotmail. Everything
else I get is SPAM.

This email seems sincere though and I don't see any indication
of them wanting any money so they might be legit. Maybe you can
check it out for us.


Terry








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                       Re: The Beveridge UFO - Hebert

From: Amy Hebert <vanguard.nul>
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 10:33:38 -0600
Fwd Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 15:03:41 -0500
Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO - Hebert


>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
>To:  ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2004 16:05:22 -0400
>Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO

>>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2004 06:06:42 -0800
>>Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO

<snip>

>I'm assuming that you decided for yourself and to your own
>satisfaction that the Beveridge or Whittlesea object was a bug.
>I on the other hand have not, as yet, been satisfied that this
>is indeed a bug or a bird. One of the reasons I don't like to
>blow this shot off is due to the very nature of the "gaseous
>appearing" envelope surrounding the object. Much can be learned
>from ordinary jet's exhausts of the aircraft's performance and I
>believe that there is something to the aura surrounding some UFO
>photos. Rather than being out of focus perhaps this is some by-
>product of it's power source. I made mention of this to Errol on
>SDI Saturday evening. I'm sure there are some out there that can
>make much of that aura by measuring light intensity, spectrum
>and what have you. What does it look like in infrared for
>example? How is the envelope refracting or filtering light
>passing through it?

<snip>

Hi, Don:

Well, let's just keep beating this poor dead horse some more.
Nothing better to do with my time...not!

What you are calling the "gaseous appearing envelope"
surrounding the object appears to be due to the Gibb's effect -
 as pointed out by Steve Sensi back in the begining of this
discussion about the Whittlesea UFO photo (as well as possible
blurring due to the motion of the object), See:

http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2004/jan/m25-016.shtml

I have observed this effect in almost every photograph (most
often in digital photographs) and video still I have in the old
IFO Database as well as in the new IFO Database not to mention
the hundreds of images I've studied but did not include in these
databases.

Don, how do you plan to separate the UFO's "aura" or "envelope"
from the distortion caused by the Gibbs effect in order to
analyze the potential power source of this object?  How will you
know you are _not_ analyzing the distortion rather than the
"power source", exhaust, gaseous envelope, etc.?

This image is, afterall, a jpg.

I have placed a few images from the old and new IFO Database on
a web page for your review.  I increased the contrast so the
Gibbs effect would be more visible.  The first 4 images are of
IFO's.  See if you can identify them then tell me which ones
might have a "gaseous envelope" or exhaust that might be
analyzed to determine it's 'power source' and how you plan to
separate the distortion from the original pixels in a jpg.

See:

http://a-realitycheck.com/whittleseaufo/atmosphere.htm

I will be posting more IFO information related to the Whittlesea
UFO in the near future.

To learn more about the Gibbs effect and other photographic
artifact common in digital photography go to:

http://www.michaeldvd.com.au/Articles/VideoArtefacts/VideoArtefactsGibbsEffect.h
tml

http://www.adamwilt.com/pix-artifacts.html

A. Hebert

PS - Sorry for the sloppy job I did on this web page. I only
had just enough time to throw it together.







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                 Re: Harrassment - Has It Happened To You? -

From: Geoffrey Richardson <geoff.nul>
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 17:27:23 -0000
Fwd Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 15:05:29 -0500
Subject: Re: Harrassment - Has It Happened To You? -


>From: Nick Pope <nick.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 21:38:50 -0000
>Subject: Re: Harrassment - Has It Happened To You?

>I don't deny that there are some witnesses in the UK who have
>received visits from military or Ministry of Defence personnel.
>This doesn't tend to happen now, but did in the past, as part of
>the investigative process into sightings.

In the January 2004 edition of UFO Magazine(UK), Stuart Miller
and Chris Rolfe write about their investigations into the UFO
events at Burmarsh (Kent-UK) in March 1997.

They describe how, in February 1999, Chris Rolfe received a tape
recording of a telephone conversation between him and Jerry
Anderson about a year previously. They had discussed the
Burmarsh case.

Eventually an independent expert concluded that the recording
had been obtained by using a remote laser directional microphone.
This is only a brief resume of part of the article but harrassment
was definitely inferred.


Geoff Richardson








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                      Re: The Beveridge UFO - Stanford

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 12:51:46 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 15:08:07 -0500
Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO - Stanford


>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 14:57:16 -0500
>Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO

>>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 13:21:40 -0500
>>Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO

<snio>

>>Don, you simply are not addressing Amy's intention in that
>>presentation. Maybe you're just being snide or else you do not
>>understand the function of paradigm creation or modeling in the
>>scientific process.

>I think it is you who do not, to use your own words, "understand
>modeling in the scientific process," Ray. If you think that the
>club/turd shaped object that Amy is using as her example of a
>'fly' is an accurate reproduction of the body of any known 'fly'
>then I completely understand why you have no faith in half of
>what you see. (perceive)

>If Amy had used the 3D model of the body of a fly and then was
>able to make a convincing look-alike for the Whittlesea object,
>I too would have been convinced that the possibility we are
>seeing a 'fly' was the best possible explanation. But that's not
>the case is it?

>The fact is; Amy had to create a really distorted image/thing,
>(that 'club' shaped object she calls a 'fly') put wings on it
>and move it around nine ways from Sunday just to get it begin to
>resemble the object in the photo. Yet _that_ depiction is what
>you consider to be a fair and accurate 'scientific
>model/rendition of a 'fly'.

>Again, no wonder you don't trust your own perceptions.

Anyone is foolish who takes their perceptions of ambiguous
situations or images (whether in a photo or in the sky) at face
value without due examination, including you, John. Furthermore,
it is ironic that a person likie you who becomes a fiery mouthed
monster if you think anyone is putting words into your mouth
figuratively put words into my mouth in saying that I consider
Amy's model an, "...accurate 'scientific model/rendition of a
'fly'..."! I challenge you to provide a quote from any of my
previpous posts saying that Amy had accurately depicted a fly! I
clearly said it was a generalized modelling of a situation which
involved both form and dynamics. Shame of you for trying to put
words in my mouth, John.

Oh, and by the way, you like to tell us you had two years in
classes relevant to this discussion of camera image matters, but
curiously you do not tell your grade in those courses or whether
you even passed or really even finished them. I'm beginning to
think you were stretching things since you declared as though
speaking 'excathedra' that the whazzit in the Mars photo was
pixel dropout when a host of gray-scale gradients were visible.
I even suspect that you secretly now know that you were wrong on
that, too.

>>Forget it, Don. The bug, object, or whatever, is not in focus,
>>as Bruce Maccabee has mentioned. It is not image smear, alone,
>>that makes that image indistinct, as Bruce clearly carefully
>>explained. So, bug or omnibus alien vehicle, the thing is not in
>>focus, and that puts some very serious constraints on the
>>distance that thing could have been from the camera, favoring
>>the bug hypothesis, as Bruce Maccabee has commented and
>>carefully explained.

>What a 'spin-doctor' you are, Ray! It's really quite remarkable.
>One of the many comments that Bruce Maccabee made was;

I suggest you keep out of that and let Bruce tell me if I am
wrong concerning the hypothesis he was favoring on this.

Hey, Bruce, would you please telling us, again, what hypothesis
seems most commensurate with the facts of that photo. :) I paid
attention to your words, but it seems John must have been
distracted, perhaps by his own beliefs about it.

<snip>

>Without those distance measurements there is no way to tell what
>it is we're looking at. Why arrive at _any_ conclusions so early
>in the proceedings? Especially if you consider that we are not
>yet in possession of all the facts. What kind of "science" are
>you practicing, Ray?

I practive lot more science than you seem even capable of
understanding, John. Your complaint that, "Especially if you
consider that we are not yet in possession of all the facts."
proves that. Science is a process of gaining knowledge by
examination of the know, then construction (on that basis) of
falsifiable hypothesis predicting specific things or results
unknown beforehand, and then testing of that hypothesis by both
the one proposing the hypothesis and by his peers. Science does
not have faith for all the facts to magically show up (or be
pontificated by John Velez, a priori) but deductes them by
experimentation and the scientific method.

>Science 'by proclamation'? as Stan Freidman is fond of saying.

There you go de facto having Stan Friedman comment on my
statements without even consulting him! Shame on you again,
John. Let Stan comment, if he wishes.

Tell me, John. How many mainstream, peer-reviewed, scientific
papers have you ever delivered on any subject at any mainstream
scientific conferences on any subject? :) Well, as early as
1998, I delivered three peer-reviewed papers on Early Cretaceous
ichnites to the Philadelphia Academy of Sciences' international
conference, with a tremendously enthusiastic audience response
(the audiences were about 90% professional scientists), even
causing one of the world's best known paleontologists (Robert T.
Bakker, Ph.D.) to spontaneously jump up and declare to the
audience that my personal findings (he had examined them first-
 hand) constitute the most impressive and scientifically
important assemblage of dinosaur fossils ever assembled by any
individual in the entire history of paleontology. One of the
scientific world's most highly regarded and referenced dinosaur
paleontologists told an equeally world-class dinosaur
paleontologists that my contributions to the science of east
coast (USA) paleontology exceed those of all other
paleontologists who have ever worked in the east coast,
combined.

Scheduled for publication this month in a premier international
scientific journal, is my paper, A New Dinosaur Ichnotaxon From
The Lower Cretaceous Patuxent Formation Of Maryland And
Virginia, describing and naming my discoveries of the world's
first indisputably hypsilophodontid dinosaur tracks (front and
back footprints). I am first author, the second author being
Dr. Robert E. Weems (U.S. Geological Survey, Reston, Virginia),
and the third author being none less than the world's most
prominent expert of dinosaur (and other ancient) tracks, Dr.
Martin G. Lockley, Department of Geology, the University of
Colorado, Denver.

Do you really think those professional and internationally
referenced scientists take me to be the pseudoscientific smuck
you are clearly trying to make me out to me? And, yes, John,
they know of earlier my psychic work and my work in UFOlogy,
too, and both have read several of my writings on both subjects.

It is universally accepted by every paleintologist and
paleoichnologist who has examined my vast collection of seld-
found tracks and trackways during the last two years, that I am
the pioneer discoverer of Maryland's Cretaceous dinosaur,
mammal, pterosaur, and other tracks when they were totally
unknown before my descoveries, and that I have at least fifteen
different varieties of dinosaur tracks catalogued.

Tell me, John, don't you think that a discoverer with that kind
of track record (pun intended) deserves better credit at
observation and objective pattern discernment than you have been
willing to grant me? I early-on said on this list that at first
glance I thought that I might be looking at a domed disc in the
Beveridge image (I even sent the link to my three adult children
and asked them to consider that it might be a domed disc in that
photo.) but that after contemplating the image in a more
objective frame of mind I realized it probably shows a
unfocused, speeding, and slightly turning (out of the photo
plane) 'bug'.

Yes, John, I admitted to this List that I was wrong in that
first interpretation of what made that image, but never once on
this list have I ever heard you admit that you were wrong on
even the smallest of matters dealing with anything! Real
forthcoming and objective, aren't you?! I have read several of
your letters letters (folling fiery tirades against others, by
you) trying to convince us that you really weren' being nasty to
anyone, that you'really just Mr. white-hatted Johnny nice guy!
 What a joke!

Hey, haven't you noticed, John, that more and more of the real
thinkers on this list are coming across to the 'it looks most
like a bug' side? :) That kind of bugs you, doesn't it?

>>>Finally, whatever one makes of this photo, both its
>>>circumstance (unseen) and the lack of unambiguous image content
>>>make it next to useless, or probably utterly useless, in
>>>elucidating the 'UFO mystery' in its classical sense.

>Twaddle! Says you. Don makes an excellent point when he draws
>our attention to the size of the disturbance in the atmosphere
>surrounding the 'object.'

Your comments again demonstrate your lack of objectivity. You
were screaming your subjective head off declaring the importance
of this photo of a domed UFO in your silly early posting
concerning it. The photo is utterly useless in diagnosing the
nature of the the classis UFO problem, because it is of very
poor image quality. All it demonstrates is the willingness of
you and a few others on this list to see a UFO in it.

You say that Don, "...makes an excellent point when he draws our
attention to the size of the disturbance in the atmosphere
surrounding the object." !

How about you telling us just precisely what evidence you have
that there was any 'disturbance in the atmosphere' surrounding
the thing photographed. Evidently you mean 'of' the atmosphere,
since you seem to be implying the presence of something other
than mere unfocused image and motion smear and effects attendant
to electronic imaging.

I say there is no evidence of any exotic effects on the
atmosphere around that thing, and that the noise you imagine to
be such has not the slightest resemblence to such bona-fide
magnetohydrodynamic plasma (plasma-in-magnetically-induced-
motion) phenomena as my project has filmed surrounding
propelling truly anomalous sky objects of diverse shapes and of
a tremendous range of sizes.

Ray Stanford

"You know my method. It is founded upon the observance of
trifles." -- Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery






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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   Feb > Feb 10

                       UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 9 Number 6

From: John Hayes <webmaster.nul>
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 17:36:04 +0000
Fwd Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 15:09:26 -0500
Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 9 Number 6



Posted on behalf of Joseph Trainor.

<Masinaigan.nul>
==========================

      UFO ROUNDUP
Volume 9, Number 6
February 11, 2004
Editor: Joseph Trainor

E-mail: Masinaigan.nul
Website: http://www.ufoinfo.com/roundup/


WEREWOLF CAUSES HAVOC
IN MEXICO'S YUCATAN

      "Over 100 residents of the Texan Palomeque
commissariat of the municipality of Hunucma," in Mexico's
state of Yucatan, "headed by 10 police officers, went
after an alleged 'paranormal being' dubbed 'the
Wolfwoman,' whose escapades have caused fear among
residents of this and other Yucatan communities."
      Like a scene from a Frankenstein movie, "armed with
rifles, shotguns, pistols and equipped with lanterns, the
locals organized into groups and plunged into the
wilderness (rain forest) in order to put an end to the
'being,' described by witnesses as being hairy, standing
approximately a meter and a half (or 5 feet tall), walking
on two legs and with glowing red eyes."
      "The alleged Wolfwoman has slain hundreds of farm
birds in the commissariat and has been seen in communities
within the municipality such as Uman, Halachi and Sisal."
      "Tadeo Cuich, one of the municipal police officers of
Hunucma who accompanied the hunters, said that the matter
has already turned into a legend and that there is a great
amount of fear in the locality, to the extent that the
residents of Texan Palomeque and other neighboring
communities no longer go out at night, fearful of
encountering the strange being."
      "Residents of Texan did not have the luck to find the
'Wolfwoman,' although some say the creature was running
towards Uman."
      "But it wasn't just the Wolfwoman who has the hairs
of the locals standing on end since the municipalities
claim having seen other supernatural beings, as occurred
in Opichon, an eastern locality, was there was talk of the
Huay Kekon (Mayan for devil hound--J.T.) responsible for
slaying dozens of pigs, dogs and cats in the area."
      "The presence of the notorious Chupacabra has even
been reported in Merida, the state capital."
(Editor's Comment:  Right now, the Chupacabra is extremely
active in Chile.  See the following story in this issue.)
      "No one slept in Texan Palomeque last night (Sunday,
February 1, 2004).  Residents organized into groups and
ventured into the wilderness to hunt down 'the
Wolfwoman.'"
      "Until 11 p.m. last night, about 100 people armed
with rifles and lanterns combed the wilderness of this
rural comissariat near Hunucma, searching for the strange
creature that has caused its dogs to become restless."
      "Movement began in Texan at 7:30 p.m., after the
barking of dogs was heard from a two-story house outside
of town, where hogs and poultry are raised."
      "Since last Wednesday (January 28, 2004), when
turkeys were found dead 'under bizarre circumstances,' the
locals are alert to the slightest commotion.  The constant
barking of the dogs attracted the first group of
'hunters,' whose number gradually increased."
      "Minutes later, someone said 'the Wolfwoman' was seen
outside of town, on the road to Uman."
      "Benito Canul Canul, a 45-year-old worker who took
part in the posse, said that he managed to fire at the
strange being outside his house on the way to the
cemetery.  He is unsure if he hit it."
      "'The creature was dog-shaped but with glowing
eyes,'" Benito said.  (See Edicion Yucatan for February 2,
2004, "Posse searches for wolf-woman."  Muchas gracias a
Scott Corrales y Gloria Coluchi para esto articulo de
diario.)


COUPLE SEES CHUPACABRA
IN CENTRAL CHILE

      "Completely overwhelmed and not at all desirous of
returning to the countryside--at least not for a while--a
state prosecutor and his wife have returned to Santiago
after having spent a week in La Serena, where they ran
into a hairy monster that made their blood run cold as
they took an alternate route to the main highway.  They
say it wasn't a creature made by the Lord."
      "The beast was nearly identical to the one seen in
early January (2004) by (bus) driver Juan Berrios in
Buin," a city just south of Santiago de Chile, the
national capital.  (For more, see UFO Roundup, volume 9,
number 5 for February 4, 2004, "Chupacabra spooks bus
drivers in central Chile," page 6.)
      "Roberto Ayar Rojas, Maribel Arnaiz Cazaux and their
young daughter, Daphane, left La Serena around midnight on
Wednesday (February 4, 2004) toward Highway 5 North.  'We
wanted to take our time before heading home.  We're used
to traveling at night because it's a lot less hectic,'
said Maribel, from her home in Quinta Normal," a suburb of
Santiago.
      "As they have for many years, the Ayar-Arnaiz family
decided to go off the beaten track and take scenic routes
through inland towns to avoid the recurrent tolls and
traffic and partly to discover non-tourist destinations
even if it was already nighttime."
      "Some 200 kilometers (120 miles) north of Santiago,
the family headed for the town of Romeral in the Fifth
Region and entered the town.  After driving for more than
an hour, Roberto found that the road ended in a fork, and
they were forced to choose which path to take.  'We
finally decided to take the right-hand path, and in no
more than a kilometer along the road, we found someone in
a microbus terminal of whom we asked the route to take
back to Santiago.  He told us to take the other road, so
we had to turn back,' said the head of household."
      "The time was about 6 a.m. when they turned back and
took the alternate road.  To one side, dense vegetation
covered the side of the road, and on the other side there
were trees.  The girl was sleeping in the back seat, and
the couple spoke excitedly while they smoked cigarettes.
It was then that the 'thing' appeared."
      "'It was horrible.  I swear to you that I've never
seen anything like it.  It was a dog, a rabbit or any
other known animal.  It was halfway in the middle of the
road, standing on two feet.  It was completely covered in
hair and had red eyes,' recalled Roberto, less than 24
hours after seeing the unexplained creature.  'It was bent
and had a hump on its back.  It had the body of a
kangaroo.  It had two small hands (forepaws) that it moved
quickly and deep-set eyes.  In fact, it looked at us, was
just as scared as we were, and it ran off, jumping into
the bushes,' added Maribel, still feeling the fright."
      "Both were frozen and later asked each other if they
had seen the same thing.  After recovering from the shock,
the couple agreed that the most frightening detail was
(the creature's) gaze and the two large fangs protruding
from its upper jaw."
      "'They were like two tubes, one stuck to the other.
Some seconds elapsed and it took off.  It walked just like
those two-legged lizards, sort of knock-kneed.  I don't
have a word for it, but it's supernatural,' said (Roberto)
Ayar, who explained that he'd always thought the
Chupacabra was a media creation designed to conceal other
things."
      In the barrio Santa Filomena in the village of
Viluco, near Buin, where the bus drivers saw the
Chupacabra, rumors began flying fast and furious when a
mysterious group of "gringos" appeared one night and began
shooting video footage and taking still photographs.
Locals said the men were agents of the USA from a variety
of different organizations, including the CIA, NASA and
FEMA.
      "Juan Espinoza, another driver of the bus line,
claimed that the foreigners were probably 'gringos'--
seemingly Americans--who arrived in a jeep to determine
where the event occurred."
      "'They were there until 6 in the morning.  They came
around, took some photos, but didn't ask any questions,'
said Espinoza, who was startled by their high-tech gear."
      The Chilean newspaper La Cuarta investigated the
story and, "as regards the 'gringos' who were taking
photos in Buin, La Cuarta was able to determine that these
men were members of the Instituto de Investigaciones
Exobiologicas, made up of Spaniards who have worked in the
paranormal field for over 30 years."  (See La Cuarta for
February 4, 2004, "Americans visited Buin to hunt
monster," and for February 7, 2004, "Prosecutor, spouse
see monster."  Muchas gracias a Scott Corrales y Liliana
Nunez para eses articulos de diario.)


UFOs REPORTED IN INDIA

      On Wednesday, January 28, 2004, Sandeep Chau was
outdoors at his home in Bhatwadi, near Smashan Bhumi,
Ghatkopar, in the west end of Mumbai (formerly Bombay--
J.T.), India's largest city, at 7:40 p.m. when he looked
up and saw "an unusual light travelling from west to
east."
      "It was looking like a star but not blinking and was
moving erratically. It disappeared after three seconds,"
Sandeep reported, "The same thing happened three times
within 15 minutes at different locations in the sky.  It
is confirmed that it was not a shooting star, and it was
not like a normal aeroplane.  On this day, the sky was
clear, and we should have been able to see it up in that
area of the sky.  It was very high and travelling
smoothly."
      On July 26, 2003, Sumeet Gupta spotted a luminous UFO
over Haryana in India.  He wrote, "I, Sumeet Gupta, 24, a
businessman from Yamuna Nagar, Haryana, India, report that
on the evening of July 26, 2003, I, along with six or
seven others, was outside my home after dinner when we saw
a large light in the sky.  While the object could have
been nothing but the planet Mars, I decided to film it
using a SONY 700X Handycam Digital 250E (camera).  I was
struck by what I saw."
      "The object emitted a yellow fire-like light and was
quite big compared to the other stars.  It was moving
around and also made a bright flash of light.  This object
was disc-shaped."  (Email Form Reports)


MORE AUSSIES REPORT
SEEING VICTORIA UFO

      "The tiny town of Beveridge, north of Melbourne," in
Australia's Victoria state, "is fast earning a reputation
as Australia's UFO hot spot."
      "Since Whittlesea Council released a photograph
purportedly showing a UFO, other locals have come forward
claiming to have seen flying objects."
      "Kilmore resident Peter Christie said he was taking
his daughter, Elise, to a friend's house about 10 p.m. on
Saturday, January 10 (2004) when he noticed something
flying to the west."
      "'I saw this round thing in the sky with lights
coming out of it,'" Elise said, "'It was sort of moving.
It wasn't going very fast or anything.  It had big round
lights coming out of it.  It was too wide to be a plane,
and it was nothing like a helicopter.'"
      "She said there were several lights beaming outwards
from the side of the object, parallel to the ground."
      "'We both said, 'No, that's definitely not a plane,''
she said, adding that the object was in view for several
minutes."
      "'We were going over a hill, and there was one stage
where we couldn't see anything.  Then it appeared again.
I wasn't scared.  I was a bit shocked.'"
      "Mr. Christie, who was driving, managed a few short
glances at the object but agreed it was definitely not a
plane."
      "'We didn't know what it was...and then we heard the
news the other day,' he said."
      "Elise said several people had greeted her comments
about the sighting with scepticism.  So she stopped
talking of it until Whittlesea Council's photograph, with
a disc-shaped object in the sky, was widely publicised
late last month. (January 2004)"
      "The release of Whittlesea Council's UFO photo
sparked much interest, and the council's website recorded
more than 37,000 hits over three days."  (See the
Australian newspaper Herald-Sun of Melbourne for February
8, 2004, "UFOs call town home."  Many thanks to Jim
Hickman for forwarding this newspaper article.)


MORE UFOs SEEN OVER
HUDDERSFIELD, UK

      "Strange lights have been seen in the skies above
Linthwaite."
      "Alan Robinson of Reinwood Road, Quarmby was in his
garden at 5:20 p.m. on Monday, January 19 (2004), when he
saw a bright round light in the sky in the distance."
      "He had been trying to spot a man-made satellite
which can be seen near the Moon at certain times."
      "Mr. Robinson said: 'I saw this UFO.  It was big and
bright and flying at cruising speed at a very high
altitude for about six seconds.  There were no navigation
lights.  I am a plane enthusiast and I can normally
identify aircraft.  It was just really strange.'"
      "Robert Williams, a member of the Huddersfield
Astronomical and Philosophical Society, said no one had
spotted the object from the society's Crosland Hill
observatory."
      "But he said there were several rational explanations
for the sighting."
      "He said it could be the International Space Station
(ISS), which is sometimes visible above Huddersfield.  He
said the space station was very bright and moved quickly."
      "Alternatively, the object could have been a man-made
satellite, said Mr. Williams.  There are about 30 man-made
satellites which pass over the Earth, some travelling in
groups at an altitude of 200 miles (320 kilometers)."
      "There is one particular group of three--in a
triangular shape--which passes above Huddersfield."
      "Finally, Mr. Williams said the object could have
been an 'iridium flare.'  These flashes of light, lasting
just seconds, occur when communications satellites catch
light from the sun when they rotate."
      "Mr. Williams added: 'I would imagine that anything
anyone sees in the night sky is not strange or unusual.'"
(See the Huddersfield Daily Examiner for February 2, 2004,
"Strange sighting in sky puzzles satellite watcher."  Many
thanks to Robert Fischer for forwarding this newspaper
article.)


UFO SPOTTED BY MANY IN
BANOS MORALES, CHILE

      "An event that few will never forget occurred last
Saturday (January 31, 2004) when at 11 p.m. a strange
object flew over the Banos Morales area at an unusual
speed, flying from west to east."
      "'The night was completely clear, and we managed to
see an object flying at considerable speed.  On two tips,
it had yellow and red lights, with a blue tail,' said one
of the eyewitnesses."
      "According to many ufologists, this is a privileged
area for observing unidentified flying objects, just like
Cajon del Maipo."
      "'We couldn't believe what we were seeing.  It all
happened in a matter of seconds.  I'm sure, like many
other residents, that what we saw wasn't an aircraft or a
satellite.  It was a very strange thing, but wonderful at
the same time.  I'll never forget what I saw,' said the
witness."  (See the Chilean newspaper Puente Alto al Dia
for February 6, 2004, "UFO sighting at Banos Morales."
Muchas gracias a Scott Corrales y Liliana Nunez para esto
articulo de diario.)


PERU SHOCKED BY EERIE
RITUAL MURDER

      "In a ritual comparable to the ones performed by
ancient Andean tribes, peasants in a village located in
the southern Andes of Peru discovered a year-old child
whose heart was torn out and offered to the gods in
exchange for fertile soil and an abundant harvest."
      "'He was sacrificed, no doubt about it,' said a
veteran agent of the Yunguyo Sheriff's Department, upon
seeing the child's remains spread on the slopes of Torre
Torrni peak, the site chosen for the cruel ceremony."
      "Sergeant Juan Felipe Quispe, 58, told the newspaper
La Republica that he had never before witnessed such a
sight."
      "'On many occasions I have heard stories about deaths
and unmarked graves for those who were murdered to honor
the soil, the sun and the moon, but never thought they
were true until now,' he stated."
      "According to the authorities, those who sacrificed
the child--whose identity is unknown--celebrated the event
as a grand affair.  'They beheaded him and then opened his
chest,' reads the police report."
      "The victim was approximately one year old and showed
no physical defects, he added.  All of the cadaver's
organs remained within the thorax except for the heart,
which was removed by hand without the use of surgical
instruments."
      "It is known that a full ritual was held at the scene
of the sacrifice due to a specific fact: the heard was
found 300 meters (1,000 feet) away from the body, covered
in multicolored wildflower petals."
(Editor's Note:  Right now it's late summer in Peru and
the other countries of the southern hemisphere.)
      "Investigators also found 43 plastic bottles
containing rum and chicha (a beer--J.T.) made from the
maceration of roots and tubers.  A tin of coagulated blood
was also found."
      "The information was given to police by other farmers
who reject such sacrifices."
      "Payment to the Earth with human sacrifices was
customary in the Andes during and before the Inca empire.
Children and virgin girls were preferred as the potential
victims."  (See the newspaper La Republica of Lima, Peru
for February 5, 2004.  Muchas gracias a Monica Gaetano de
Silva para esto articulo de diario.)
(Editor's Note:  The "Vatican" of this religion was
Pachacamac, a city of ancient pyramids in the Rio Lurin
valley, located 32 kilometers (20 miles) south of Lima,
the national capital.)


MYSTERIOUS BOOMS HEARD
IN BASEHOR, KANSAS

      "A mysterious sound, something like a 'sonic boom,'
has some local residents of Basehor," Kansas (population
2,280) "scratching their heads, curious about the sound's
origin and, more importantly, its function."
      "Basehor police chief Vince Weston and his police
officers have taken reports from residents in the past
several months, since Halloween, about booming noises in
the night air."
      "'We've gotten a couple,' Weston said, 'It's not a
continuous thing, but on some weekend nights, there is a
noise that sounds like fireworks without the display.'"
      "One local man reporting the sound to police
described the noise as sounding like 'dynamite or TNT,'
the police chief said."
      "Residents reporting the strange recurring sound have
told police it is usually a quick blast coming at strange
times.  Some have placed the noise coming from the south
of the city, toward areas along County Road 2."
      "'It's usually one or two blasts, and then it's done
for the evening,' Weston said."
      "The police department opened an investigation into
the matter but, as of yet, it has not revealed any helpful
information."
      "An official with the Tonganoxie Police Dept. said
there have been no reports of their noise in their
jurisdiction.  As of press time, deputies with the
Leavenworth County Sheriff's Department were reviewing
past reports to see if any matched similar descriptions."
      Basehor is just north of the Kansas Turnpike,
approximately 16 miles (28 kilometers) west of Kansas
City.  (See the Basehor, Kan. Sentinel for January 22,
2004, "Police puzzle over strange sounds."  Many thanks to
Daniel Wilson for forwarding this newspaper article.)


PHANTOM PANTHER TURNS
UP IN SHROPSHIRE, UK

      "A new breed of wildcat could be flourishing on the
Shropshire countryside, a police wildlife expert has
warned."
      "Several 'big cat' sightings have been reported close
to the (motorway) A442 in Telford, said Alan Mootham,
wildlife liaison officer for the south of the borough."
      "And although none of the tip-offs has led to any
mystery animal being captured roaming the countryside, Mr.
Mootham insisted all sightings are taken seriously."
      "He said a reason for an increased number of
sightings, both in Shropshire and across the country,
could be a new type of cat flourishing."
      "'We have had recent reports in the last few months
of large cat sightings close to the Eastern Primary.'"
(See the Shropshire Star for January 29, 2004, "Increased
sightings of big cats."  Many thanks to UFO Roundup's
phantom panther expert, Robert Fischer, for this newspaper
article.)


UNDERGROUND BASE STIRS
FEARS IN COLORADO

      Construction of a giant underground base in western
Colorado has locals and visitors wondering just what the
Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) is up to.
      According to researcher Rose King, "There is a new
tunnel that has been under construction for about two
years now.  It is located on the east side of the San Juan
mountain range just west of South Fork, Colorado
(population 604) on Highway 160."
      South Fork is about 40 miles (64 kilometers)
northwest of Alamosa, the "UFO capital" of Colorado and
the heart of the San Juan Valley.  Ufologist Christopher
O'Brien has documented hundreds of UFO sightings in the
area in his two books, The Mysterious Valley and Enter the
Valley.
      "Dulce, New Mexico is just south of this position in
the San Juan range," Rose added.
(Editor's Note:  Dulce is alleged to be the site of a
large underground base that was the scene of a battle
between U.S. Marines and space aliens in September 1969.
Also, Alamosa, Colo. is the site of the King Ranch horse
mutilation case of September 1967, an event which kicked
off the current wave of animal mutilations.)
      "One day, during a rainstorm, the traffic on Highway
160 had stopped to allow the opposing lane's traffic to
come through the flaggers" because construction had
reduced the road to one lane for a short distance.
      "As we were all waiting in line," Rose recalled, "I
didn't pay much attention to the white truck in front of
me.  Then, surprisingly, the guy got out wearing a FEMA
coat (field jacket--J.T.).  I am sure he only had it on
because it was lightly raining and might not have worn it
any other time.  It was one of those kinds of dark blue
cop, FBI or some agency coat they put on during a field
event."
      "He got out, looked up the hillside, and then looked
over the edge down toward the stream below as if he was
checking out strengthening positions."
(Editor's Comment: Could be.  But I think he was just
looking for a private place to go to the bathroom.)
      "There are a few of us that feel this is one of the
cover tunnels for an underground entrance into the tunnel
systems here in Colorado.  It's sort of like a connection
to the Denver International Airport underground city
system."
      "The tunnel is still under construction, and both
entrances are blocked now.  Anyone have any more
information about this?"
      Just three miles (5 kilometers) northwest of South
Fork, in the Rio Grande National Forest on Highway 149, is
a tiny town with the curious name of Masonic Park.  The
town abuts the area of the underground base.  (Many thanks
to Rose King for this news story.)


DATELINE: MARS...

      "NASA's Opportunity rover took microsopic images
Sunday," February 8, 2004, "of a bedrock outcropping on
the surface of Mars that scientists hope will answer
questions about whether could have formed in water."
      "The images will help scientists understand what the
environment was like when the rock was formed, said Jim
Erickson, deputy mission manager."
      "Opportunity's camera spotted the outcropping, which
is about 50 feet (15 meters) long and a foot (0.3 meters)
high, within days of its January 24 (2004) landing.  It is
the first bedrock outcropping seen on any Mars mission."
      "The microscopic images and other tests could shed
light on whether water--a key ingredient for life--ever
flowed freely on Mars."
      "Also Sunday, scientists were studying data that the
Spirit rover had gathered Saturday," February 7, 2004, "by
drilling a small hole into a sharply-angled rock dubbed
Adirondack."
      On Sunday night, February 8, 2004, an enlargement of
an image downloaded from Opportunity's exploration site in
Meridani Planum showed what looked like a petroglyph
chiseled by non-human hands.  The petroglyph shows a
perfect circle with three sweeping lines, looking like
comet's tails, to the right of it.  The image was
circulated by the Brazilian magazine Revista UFO.
      Brunilda Barros, UFO Roundup's Brazil correspondent,
speculated that "the circle might represent the rogue
planet or star Nibiru.  Perhaps Nibiru's close approach to
Mars billions of years ago destroyed the Red Planet's
ecosystem.  An unknown Martian carved the petroglyph to
show how his world ended, which is what Immanuel
Velikovsky (who wrote Worlds in Collision in 1950--J.T.)
suggested."
      "The rovers are exploring opposite sides of the
planet Mars as part of their $280 million mission."  (See
USA Today for February 9, 2004, "Mars rover snaps images
of bedrock," page 10A.  Muito obrigado a Revista UFO por o
fotografia.)


MISSING PLANE MYSTERY
PUZZLES NIGERIA

      "Nigeria's Aviation Ministry on Saturday," January
31, 2004, "cast doubt on reports that a 25 to 35-seat
passenger plane had crashed into" the Atlantic Ocean, off
the coast of West Africa.
      "Witnesses and at least one airport official in
Lagos," Nigeria's capital, "reported the crash on Friday,"
January 30, 2004, "saying the plane had disappeared under
the waves along a busy West African flight path that is
also used by multinational oil companies to fly workers to
and from facilities in Nigeria's oil delta."
      "But on airline has reported any planes missing so
far, the Aviation Ministry said in a statement Saturday."
      "A rescue boat dispatched by the (Nigerian)
government earlier in the day combed the waters off of
Lagos, but found no evidence of a plane crash."  (See the
Duluth, Minn. News-Tribune for February 1, 2004, "Ministry
questions report of crash," page 2A.  Many thanks to Jim
Hickman for this report.)


ELVIS CHURCH HAS ONTARIO
"ALL SHOOK UP"

      "When it comes to eternal salvation, it's now or
never."
      "At least that's the message you might hear if you
attend church services celebrated by an ordained Anglican
priest--who officiates as an Elvis impersonator."
      "Rev. Dorian Baxter--known to followers as 'Elvis
Priestly'--recently celebrated his one-year anniversary of
his self-proclaimed Christ the King Graceland Independent
Anglican Church of Canada."
      "Baxter, 53, says he broke away and formed his own
church after the Anglican Church of Canada banned him from
the pulpit and told him to stop imitating Elvis in his
services."
      "The preacher of pop is known for celebrating
weddings in a red-velvet jumpsuit and even driving couples
to the ceremony in his white Cadillac."
      "And if that's not enough, he even alters the lyrics
of Elvis's songs to make them a bit more spiritual,
including Blue Suede Shoes."
      "While some parishioners get all shook up by the act,
he draws about 100 'idol' worshipers every week."
      "Baxter's fascination with the King of Rock began at
age 6 after his family got a new hi-fi (high fidelity)
stereo."
(Editor's Note to our Younger Readers: A stereo was a
machine with two speakers that produced music from round
black plastic disks called records.  You might find some
in an antique store or in your grandmother's attic.)
      "'It was 1956 and Elvis came on,' he says, 'I was
mesmerized.'"
      "Years later, after entering the priesthood, Baxter
turned to (Elvis) Presley in an attempt to help turn teens
away from what he saw as the satanic overtones of heavy
metal music."
      "'I thought, 'Well, it's time to fight fire with
fire.  And if this music is going to influence these young
people so badly, then I'm going to use music for good.'"
(See the National Enquirer for February 10, 2004, "Blue
Suede Pulpit," page 35.)
(Editor's Comment:  Can you imagine what will happen in
August 2077, when the Elvisians--two million strong--
descend on Graceland for the centennial of the King's
death or disappearance or what-have-you?  By then, Blue
Suede Shoes will probably be a hymn.  I can hear it now...
      Well, it's one for the Father
      Two for the Son
      Three for the Spirit
      Let's have some fun
      Don't you--
      Send my Elvis away!
Graceland in August 2077--it's a date!)


READER FEEDBACK:

INVESTIGATING THE MYSTERY VAN

      Concerning the silver-grey mystery van that has been
seen and photographed in Arizona recently, (see UFO
Roundup, volume 9, number 5 for February 4, 2004, "Mystery
van seen by many in Arizona," page 4) Morris C. Coller
writes, "There are several things that make me more than a
little suspicious about that grey van.  The first being
the license plate.  I have yet to see a government vehicle
without government plates on it."
      "What's more, I can't imagine a spook vehicle having
ordinary license plates and then all sorts of government
markings all over it; by the way, of which I don't see
any."
      "I am also almost willing to bet that the number
beneath the license plate is completely bogus and was put
there to make people think it was a government vehicle.
If someone was really smart, they would check out the
license plate and see who the vehicle belongs to."
      "Number Two reason is that the sign that was about
damaging the vehicle, etc. does not show any reference to
the appropriate Federal Code number.  Also, these signs
can be made in any sign shop in the country or a person's
basement or garage if they have a small sign company."
      "Another, and very interesting, thing is the antenna
that looks as if it is marked Raytheon.  At first glance I
thought it was a regular Raytheon antenna, but the word on
it is not Raytheon, though it is supposed to look as if it
is."
      "Maybe the thing that bothers me the most is the
report that not only the people with the van been quite
willing to talk to bystanders but have shown them the
inside of the vehicle, plus they have made no complaints
about being photographed."
      "I wonder if they would be willing to show somebody
about in the engine compartment of the van.  I say this
because even if those antennas are only for receiving
purposes, it will take a lot of electricity to power the
equipment, and since I am sure at least a couple of those
antennas are for transmitting data, it will take even more
power for the frequencies they are tuned for."
      "No matter how you look at it, if this van is legit,
it needs one heck of an alternator system to power the
equipment.  I would also like to know the electrical
frequency of this alternator.  The FA-18, as well as most
other military planes and maybe even commercial planes,
use a 400 Hz AC system for their electronics, as well as a
28-volt DC system for general power."
      "Something also interesting is the fire extinguisher
notice.  It is completelt different from every one I have
ever seen and is in a completely wrong place and is the
wrong color.  Every one I have ever seen has been in RED
and no strange arrows are used.  The marking will say,
'Fire Extinguisher behind the door' in RED.  It also has
to be in close proximity to the most likely source of
fire, usually the engine compartment.  And must be readily
accessible; notice there are no handles on those doors."
      "Another thing that makes me almost positive it is
bogus is the wording on that 'Warning' sign.  I have never
seen any kind of official, state or Federal warning of
this type, and I have seen more than a few, that states,
'in most cases.'  It will read 'is punishable by a fine of
$XX,XXX and/or imprisonment for up to XX years.'"
(Editor's Comment:  Morris, you make a very compelling
case for the "mystery van" being an elaborate, if
expensive, hoax.  If you're right, then just who is the
hoaxer?
An independently wealthy eccentric?  A renegade ufologist?
What will happen next in this bizarre six-year-old case is
anybody's guess.)

Also last week Bill Hamilton wrote in to say "I have not
been in Arizona for six years.  I am with MUFON Ventura
currently and ED of Skywatch International.
http://www.skywatch-research.org


 From the UFO Files...

1977: THE FAYETTE FACTOR

      Who--or more precisely, what--is "the Fayette
Factor?"
      It's probably one of the strangest mysteries in
American Forteana, first discovered by researcher Bill
Grimstad back in 1977.  Namely, a surprisingly high
incidence of paranormal events linked to places named
after one of the USA's Founding Fathers--the Marquis de
Lafayette.
      According to Grimstad, "Lafayette traveled widely in
this country (USA) and doubtless must have been the
inspiration for many or most of the 18-odd counties and 28
towns and cities across the land that I have been able to
find with some form of his name."
      Marie-Joseph Paul Roch de Motier, Marquis de
Lafayette, was born in 1757.  His father, a French Army
officer, was killed in the battle of Minden in 1759, and
the marquis was brought up by his mother's prestigious
family, the de Noailles.  At the age of 18, he traveled to
the Americas at his own expense and became an aide to
General George Washington, who loved him like a son.  By
the end of the War of the American Revolution, Lafayette
commanded the Continental Army in Virginia.
      That's the Lafayette every American schoolboy knows.
But, as researcher Manly Palmer Hall has pointed out, the
marquis had ties to the esoteric groups of the late
Eighteenth Century.
      "In addition to his political pursuits," Grimstad
wrote, "Lafayette was busily involved in certain circles
that should be of interest to contemporary Illuminati
buffs."
      According to Manly Palmer Hall, Lafayette was an
associate of both Dr. Anton Mesmer, "the Father of
Hypnotism," and Giuseppe Balsamo, better known as
Cagliostro, a Sicilian sorcerer who was an acolyte of Adam
Weishaupt's Illuminati.
      Hall wrote, "In 1785, the Marquis...joined the
Egyptian Masonry of Cagliostro and proclaimed his absolute
confidence in the 'Grand Cophte.'  (One of Balsamo's many
titles--J.T.)  When Anton Mesmer arrived from Vienna with
his theories of animal magnetism, Lafayette was one of his
first customers."
      Grimstad adds, "But Lafayette also had the closest
ties with Benjamin Franklin, the American revolutionary
sage (and member of (Sir Francis) Dashwood's 'Hell-Fire
Club' in Britain (also known as the 'Medmenham Monks' of
High Wycombe, Kent--J.T.).  As Hall puts it, 'Benjamin
Franklin was a philosopher and a Freemason--possibly a
Rosicrucian initiate.  He and the Marquis de Lafayette--
also a man of mystery--constitute two of the most
important links that culminated in the establishment of
the original thirteen American colonies as a free and
independent nation.'"
      "Lafayette, Hall summarises, 'is a direct link
between the (esoteric) political societies of France and
the young American government.'"
(Editor's Comment:  Maybe one of our French readers could
find out if any of Lafayette's ancestors in either the de
Motier or the de Noailles families ever had ties to the
Knights Templar or the Cathars.)
      How much of the marquis's involvement in such matters
was due to his deeply-held esoteric beliefs or to mere
socializing is something for historians of the future to
determine.  What's of interest to Forteans is the uncanny
number of paranormal incidents linked to the name
Lafayette.
      Grimstad has an impressive list.
      "In Fayette County, Alabama, is the Musgrove
Methodist Cemetery.  The tombstone of one Robert L.
Musgrove there bears a discoloration, not especially
realistic, that is locally believed to be the bridal-
veiled figure of Musgrove's fiancee.  Apparently he was
killed just before the wedding, and the sorrowing girl"
willed her image "onto the marble by her many visits to
the grave."
(Editor's Comment:  And I have to wonder if Sir Arthur
Conan Doyle used this real-life case as the basis for his
Sherlock Holmes story, "The Musgrave Ritual.")
      "The engima-laden state of Arkansas has two sites."
      "The city of Fayetteville, in the northwest corner"
of Arkansas, "has long been legendary for oddities.  UFOs
and aerial lightshows, water monsters in the nearby White
River and Springheel Jack-type window peepers are among
the manifestations."
      "In the southwest angle of Arkansas is a Bigfoot
hotspot that has been immortalised--in America, at least--
by the (1974) movie The Legend of Boggy Creek.  The
critters have been known hereabouts since 1856, centering
their activities lately upon the town of Fouke in Miller
County and ranging eastward into Lafayette County."
      "In the scenic Bluegrass area of Kentucky, the
university city of Lexington sits atop one of America's
more dramatic lost cave stories.  Historian G.W. (George
Washington) Ranck recorded in 1872 that hunters in 1776
had found a tunnel behind a rock panel of 'peculiar
workmanship' and covered with hieroglyphics.  The
descending portal widened to a sort of gallery running
downward a few hundred feet to a huge underground room.
Ranck cited the hunters' reports that this chamber
contained idols, altars and about 2,000 human mummies.
Although the entrance to the amazing cavern was (of
course--B.G.) lost, there are still cave true-believers
who poke about looking for the weird mausoleum beneath
this part of Fayette County."
      "Followers of ghost lore may have heard of the recent
(1976) antics of a supposed phantom in Lilac Hill, a large
old farmhouse at Fayette, Missouri.  A number of
psychically-sensitive individuals have been trying to
discern what is troubling the alleged spirits, of whom
there are said to be at least two."
      "In New York state, a farm near Cardiff, 10 miles (16
kilometers) south of Syracuse, was the starting point in
October 1869 for one of the more sensational fossil
controversies.  The 'Cardiff Giant' is still displayed at
museum near Cooperstown," and the weird stone idol was
found in a quarry near "the Nineteenth Century town of La
Fayette."
      Also, "it was in April of 1830 that the Church of
Jesus Christ of the Latter-Day Saints (also known as the
Mormons--J.T.) was founded by Joseph Smith and a few
disciples, who claim to have received more than a little
help from certain angelic friends in the neighborhood.
The place: Fayette, New York."
      "Another haunted house story takes us to an American
state that perhaps rivals New York and Arkansas in the
number and interest of its anomalies.  It also brings us
back across the trail of the peripatetic Marquis de
Lafayette.  This is the A.S. Slocumb Mansion, located in
the North Carolina city of Fayetteville.  The Slocumb
House is supposed to have a number of special occupants.
It also has, or had, a secret vault in the basement and at
least one tunnel leading to the Cape Fear River channel."
      In 1977, the USA experienced one of the most severe
winters in its history.  "As of February 3, 1977, the
National Weather Service announced that the 'hardest hit
area' of the north-central states region was Fayette
County, Ohio."
      Bigfoot "became rather more aggressive on April 23,
1976 when it attempted to carry off a four-year-old boy
from his backyard on a farm in Tennessee.  A sheriff's
posse pursued the entity and seems to have shot enough
high-powered rifle fire into it to have felled King Kong
himself.  However, as if tiring of the game, the creature
finally leaped out of its cul-de-sac and simply vanished.
These events occurred within a few miles of the hamlet
called Fayetteville, Tennessee."
      "Now I would like to consider some examples of a more
ominous character," Grimstad wrote, "We find 'the
Lafayette factor' in the Abraham Lincoln assassination of
the 1860s...A slippery character named Lafayette Baker had
been brought in to head the Secret Service by the
enigmatic Edwin M. Stanton, President Lincoln's arrogant
Secretary of War.  Otto Eisenschiml, the pioneer
revisionist historian of this amazingly crude murder
conspiracy, delved into the story as far as the surviving
records would allow."
      "His findings suggest that Lafayette Baker and
Stanton had maneuvered to facilitate the escape into the
South of assassin John Wilkes Booth, and when that proved
impossible (owing to Booth's broken leg--J.T.) to ensure
that the killer was not brought back and that his
evidently-incriminating diary did not survive intact."
      At the same hour Lincoln was shot at Ford's Theatre,
Secretary of State William Seward "was attacked and
savagely knifed by a deranged giant named Lewis Paine, who
had forced his way into the Seward home.  This house
fronted upon Lafayette Square, just across Pennsylvania
Avenue from the White House."
      Residents of the District of Columbia sometimes refer
to the area "as 'Tragedy Square.'  No other section of
Washington has had so much intrigue, mystery, murder and
macabre happenings as has the area directly opposite 1600
Pennsylvania Avenue.'"
      The Fayette Factor has also come into play in occult
crimes, as well.
      "On July 3, 1977, 23-year-old Gary Rock was charged
on two counts of criminal homicide after two local
volunteer firemen were killed by a sniper while responding
to a fire alarm at Rock's isolated cabin, near
Fayetteville, Pennsylvania."
      "On July 31, 1977, two young people sitting in a
parked car along the Brooklyn, New York seashore were shot
several times by a mysterious assailant who had become
known as 'the Son of Sam.'  The girl, Stacy Moskowitz,
died of her injuries; her companion, Robert Violante,
suffered eye damage.  Miss Moskowitz was an alumna of
(Brooklyn's) Lafayette High School.  When she and Violante
were shot, it was while they were sitting 'not far from
Lafayette High School,' according to the New York Times"
of August 1, 1977, page 34-C.
      To Grimstad's list, your editor can add one site
which he has visited personally.  On Peirce Street in East
Greenwich, Rhode Island is the General James Varnum House.
This fine old Georgian mansion was built in 1761, its
grand opening on the very day the Marquis de Lafayette
turned four years old.  During the war, Lafayette was a
frequent visitor to the Varnum House and visited it yet
again during his tour of the USA in 1826.
      Today the Varnum House is notorious for its periodic
ghost and poltergeist manifestations.
      It's just all part of the enduring mystery we call
"the Fayette Factor." (See Fortean Times No. 25 for Spring
1978, "Fateful Fayette" by Bill Grimstad, page 3; Why Was
Lincoln Murdered? by Otto Eisenschiml, Little, Brown &
Co., Boston, Mass., 1937; America's Assignment with
Destiny by Manly Palmer Hall, Philosophical Research
Society, Los Angeles, Cal., 1951; and Weird America by Jim
Brandon, E.P. Dutton Co., New York, N.Y., 1978.)

      Well, that's it for this week.  Join us next time for
more UFO, Fortean and paranormal news from around the
planet Earth--and occasionally, Mars--brought to you by
"the paper that goes home--UFO Roundup."  See you in seven
days.

UFO ROUNDUP: Copyright 2004 by Masinaigan Productions, all
rights reserved.  Readers may post news items from UFO
Roundup on their Web sites or in news groups provided that
they credit the newsletter and its editor by name and list
the date of issue in which the item first appeared.

E-Mail Reports to: Joseph Trainor <Masinaigan.nul>
or use the Sighting Report Form at:

http://www.ufoinfo.com/forms/form_sighting.htm

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UFO Reports and Experiences, UFO + PSI Magazine
plus archives of Humanoid Sighting Reports (Albert
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   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   Feb > Feb 10

                     Re: Review Of Sight Unseen - Velez

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 13:42:00 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 15:13:23 -0500
Subject: Re: Review Of Sight Unseen - Velez


>From: Greg Sandow <greg.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 16:39:43 -0500
>Subject: Re: Review Of Sight Unseen - Sandow

>>From: Nick Pope <nick.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 20:10:52 -0000
>>Subject: Re: Review Of Sight Unseen

>>>Has he ever found at least 3 independent abductees (ideally, from 3
>>>different investigators) who describe at least 4 identical complex
>>>symbols?

>Yes, though all from abductees he's worked with. I don't know if
>other abduction investigators have reported the same symbols.

Hi Greg, All

You wrote:

>I've seen these symbols, and found them pretty staggering.

They 'staggered' you as an independent observer, as an experiencer
they brought me to my knees. (See below)

>I agree with Nick Pope (hi, Nick!) that we'd be better off if we
>could exclude any possibility of collusion. If, for instance,
>abductees in different parts of the world, working with
>investigators who don't know each other, reported the same
>symbols, I'd agree that the case would be stronger.

I'm genuinely surprised that this hasn't been attempted yet.
Actually, Nick Pope and yourself being as you are, in the good
graces of many of the major abduction researchers, are in a
position to actualize such a study. Of all the individuals I can
think of, both of you are in the best position to be able to
secure the trust and cooperation of the front line researchers.
Think about it.

>But now let me say why, as anecdotal evidence, these symbols
>struck (as I said) pretty staggering. I first heard of them,
>separately, from two abductees who worked with Budd. These
>people knew each other, but weren't specially friendly. I'm not
>aware that they ever saw each other outside of Budd's very, very
>occasional support group meetings.

 From reading this post I know that one of the 'abductees' you
are talking about is me. (It's ok to use my name Greg. You and
EBK are probably the only human beings alive that I trust to
'use my name' responsibly.) If the other abductee is R-Mary (?)
then I can tell you that a. I had not met her _before_ I drew
the symbols for Budd, and b. we never exchanged 'symbols'. In
fact, I didn't know until I actually saw some of the signatures
on the samples 'who' had produced them. At that point, they were
all strangers to me with the exception of 'Christine M.' And I
had never exchanged 'symbols' with her either.

I didn't know I knew any 'symbols' until it came up quite
spontaneously during a hypnosis session. As I was reliving an
abduction experience, I started telling Budd that 'they' were
showing me some 'writing' on a large, curved screen.

>Both told me very similar stories. They'd remembered seeing
>these symbols (actually, in one case, I believe one of the
>abductees said she'd drawn them every since she was a child, and
>suspected they might have something to do with what she believed
>were her abductions). They told Budd about the symbols. Budd
>asked them to draw them. When they'd finished, he didn't say
>anything. Instead, he left the room, and came back with a
>notebook in which were many other drawings abductees had made.
>Both of these abductees were amazed, not to say overwhelmed. One
>(a man) began crying. It was only at that point, he told me,
>that he began to believe that his supposed abductions might
>actually have been real.

Thanks for trying to protect me, Greg. Don't worry about
preserving my macho image. 'Weeping Willy' was me. That's what I
was talking about earlier, seeing the similarity and in some
cases _identical_ symbols (in my admittedly cursory perusal of
the many pages of symbols I was able to match up -three- of the
ones I had drawn with symbols that appeared on some of the other
pages) literally brought me to my knees and reduced me to tears.

If what was happening was not 'real' then how on earth could
these strangers have produced identical symbols to the ones I
had just drawn for Budd? It blew my mind. I'm not psychic and
some of those other samples had been drawn years before I had
drawn mine. The individuals were all (with the exception of
Chris) complete strangers to me. There was just no way that it
could be 'coincidence.' For the first time in Budd's
investigation of my case, _I_ began to believe that it could all
possibly be true. In fact, the reason it shattered me the way it
did was because deep down inside I knew the only way this could
happen was if each of us had seen those symbols precisely where
we recalled seeing them... on board UFOs.

>(Though as we've discussed, we have to trust his honesty
>here, and we can't be absolutely sure the abductees didn't
>show the symbols to each other.)

For whatever worth my 'word' may have around here, I can swear
to you that I did not exchange 'symbols' with anyone. And that
no one shared theirs with me. I had promised Budd that I
wouldn't share them with anyone.

>He gave in, and showed me the same notebook (he said) that he'd
>shown the abductees I'd spoken to. And this was where I was
>staggered. There were 14 extensive samples, from 14 people, each
>with distinct handwriting. I've promised not to describe the
>symbols, so I won't do that here. I can tell you that they were
>distinct enough - different, that is, from any other symbols
>I've ever seen - so that I'd recognize them instantly again.
>Imagine that you'd been reading English all your life, never saw
>any other alphabet, and suddenly saw 14 samples of printing in
>Hebrew alphabet. That's how distinct and new the symbols were.

I don't know how much weight my own opinion carries considering
that I am one of the 'subjects' that contributed samples but, I
too was deeply impressed with how 'distinct' the symbols are and
how they have an alphabet-like integrity within themselves.

>Another way I've conveyed how consistent they were is this.
>Suppose they were like the dots and dashes of Morse Code. They
>weren't anything like that, in actual fact, but suppose they
>were. Every one of the 14 samples would have had nothing but
>dots and dashes - absolutely nothing else. Not even a single
>squiggle, diagonal line, circle, square, or anything else.
>Nothing but dots and dashes. That's how consistent the 14
>samples of these symbols were. They were all made up of the same
>elements (which, by the way, is one way they differed from any
>alphabet I know; they were made up of smaller parts, easy to
>notice and remember). All of them have these same elements; none
>of them had anything that wasn't built from these elements.

I just want to confirm/corroborate what Greg has stated here.

>At one point, JUFOS was interested in publishing
>a study of the symbols, but it then ceased publication for a
>while. I don't know if the project has ever gotten back on
>track.

I asked Stuart Appelle about this a couple of years ago. At the
time JUFOS was not being published, (money problems, what else
is new!) and the study had been put on a back-burner. Now that
JUFOS is back up an running, maybe we can convince him to
follow-up on the study and see if it cannot be performed now.

>That's what I know about this subject. Anyone who's seen Budd's
>notebooks, with the 35 samples of these allegedly remembered
>symbols, each in a different handwriting, would have to be
>impressed. Even die-hard debunkers (the kind who think
>abductees, generally speaking, need psychiatric help, despite
>numerous studies to the contrary) would have to grant that if
>this is a hoax, it's a fairly monumental one. Unless, of course,
>somebody thinks that Budd is hoaxing it.

Although there are always exceptions to every rule, -most- would
be deeply impressed with those samples. As for Budd "hoaxing
it," I know he didn't "hoax" mine. I didn't "hoax" them either.

>Which, come to think of it, I suppose somebody might think,
>given that on this list we've just had somebody confidently
>declare that Budd tells his abductees that they've been
>abducted. This somebody, of course, has had about as much
>contact with Budd, his abductees, and his methods as I've had
>with the Tasmanian royal family (should there be such a thing).

I can't speak for anyone else, but he never did it with me.

>Just look at Luis R. Gonzalez, and all his assumptions about
>Katharina Wilson, which Katharina - a class act, if ever I've
>seen one here - so patiently demolished.

Katharina is every bit the class act you say she is.

>And now Luis jumps - hope once more triumphing over experience
>(though he doesn't seem to have processed his experience) - all
>over the idea that poor Budd Hopkins may have been fooled by
>someone claiming to be an abductee. Ha! says Luis. Didn't those
>same people, the same ones saying Budd was fooled, also say that
>Budd has reasonable checks on whether abductees are credible.
>They're contradicting themselves!!!!!

>Except... haven't we known, in other walks of life, reputable,
>competent people who sometimes make mistakes? Budd, otherwise
>careful, could have made a mistake here. Poor UFO investigators.
>I guess they, alone of all humans, have to be completely,
>utterly infallible.

Not too many people have a gift for telling it like it is like
you do Mr. Sandow. Spot on!


Warmest regards,

John Velez, Abductee









   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   Feb > Feb 10

                       Re: The Beveridge UFO - Shough

From: Martin Shough <mshough.nul>
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 18:52:45 -0000
Fwd Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 15:15:17 -0500
Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO - Shough


>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 13:21:40 -0500
>Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO

>>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 22:13:12 -0400
>>Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO

>>>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 12:57:54 -0500
>>>Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO - Ledger

<snip>

>>>I, for one, did, but only after careful image analysis and
>>>consideration of a host of other 'possibilities', even though at
>>>first glimpse I fancied we might be looking at something less
>>>prosaic, like, say, a cartoonist's version of a 'UFO'. I have
>>>heard from others on this List who feel the same way.

>>. . . show me an actual picture of a bug that could
>>definitely be proved to be a bug that comes close to matching the
>>Beverage UFO, then zip I'm there. Otherwise either way it's just
>>a theory and not definitive. But consider this, it only takes a
>>few feet of distance to blow your bug out of the picture. I've
>>seen no estimate of distance for this bug to show up in the
>>picture-and in focus.

>Forget it, Don. The bug, object, or whatever, is not in focus,
>as Bruce Maccabee has mentioned. It is not image smear, alone,
>that makes that image indistinct, as Bruce clearly carefully
>explained. So, bug or omnibus alien vehicle, the thing is not in
>focus, and that puts some very serious constraints on the
>distance that thing could have been from the camera, favoring
>the bug hypothesis, as Bruce Maccabee has commented and
>carefully explained.

Hi Ray, Don

For the sake of accuracy I'd like to point out that Bruce
Macabee did _not_ say this, as far as I am aware, but quite the
opposite:

"One of the most interesting aspects of the UO image is that it
appears to be more blurred at the left and right edges that at
the top and bottom edges, Simple defocus blur by itself, which
could happen if the UO were very small and close to the camera,
would make the edges of the image fuzzy or diffuse by the same
amount all the way around the edge, Since that does not appear
to be the case, one can say that the left-right edge blur was
caused by motion during the shutter time." (Thu, 5 Feb 2004
00:23:50 -0500)

This does not by itself favour bug, bird or saucer theories.


Martin Shough





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                        The 2003 Canadian UFO Survey

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 05:04:20 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 05:04:20 -0500
Subject: The 2003 Canadian UFO Survey


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                            The 2003
                      CANADIAN UFO SURVEY:
                   an analysis of UFO reports
                            in Canada

                ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



                           Compiled by
                          Geoff Dittman
                               and
                       Chris A. Rutkowski

                          Contributors:


        Errol Bruce-Knapp, MUFON Ontario and UFO Updates
            Sue Darroch, Para-Researchers of Ontario
                     Peter Davenport, NUFORC
            Michel Deschamps, MUFON Ontario, Sudbury
                   George Filer, Filer's Files
          Stanton Friedman, Fredericton, New Brunswick
       Anita Goodrich, Hauntings Research Group (Ontario)
                  Hans Grasholm, UFO*BC (Yukon)
              Jen H., Newfoundland UFOs, St. John's
                Martin Jasek, UFO*BC (Vancouver)
              Stephanie Lechniak, Haunted Hamilton
                   Don Ledger, UFO Nova Scotia
                      Dave Pengilly, UFO*BC
                 Jacques Poulet, CHUCARA, Quebec
                    Joe Trainor, UFO Roundup
Elliott Van Dusen, Paranormal Phenomena Research & Investigation
                       Brian Vike, HBCCUFO

                             Editor
                     Chris Rutkowski, UFOROM

              Data Entry, Compilation and Analyses
                      Geoff Dittman, UFOROM


                          Published by

                  Ufology Research of Manitoba
                     Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
                             c 2004


The 2003 Canadian UFO Survey

Overview

Since 1989, UFOROM has been soliciting UFO case data from all
known and active investigators and researchers in Canada. Our
goal has been to provide data for use by researchers as they try
to understand this controversial phenomenon. No comparable
studies are currently produced by any other research group in
North America. The only known similar program is one in Sweden,
where UFO report data is analysed by the Archives for UFO
Research. They have lists of Swedish UFO sightings from 1997 to
the present online. 2003 thus marks our fifteenth year of
collecting and analysing Canadian UFO report data. UFOROM
presently has UFO data from 1993 to the present available online,
and is working to add earlier national case data to the database.
The 2003 Canadian UFO Survey: Summary of Results


O    There were 673 UFO sightings reported in Canada in 2003 - or
     nearly two each day.

O    There were about 39 per cent more UFO reports in 2003 than
     2002. The number of UFO reports per year in Canada has
     increased almost 350 per cent since 1998.

O    British Columbia, Alberta, Ontario and Quebec all had all-
     time record high numbers of UFOs reported in 2003.

O    In 2003, about 17 per cent of all UFO reports were
     unexplained. This percentage of unknowns falls to about
     seven per cent when only high-quality cases are considered.

O    Most UFO sightings have two witnesses.

O    The typical UFO sighting lasted approximately 10 minutes in
     2003.


The most important findings of this study include the fact that
the number of UFO sightings in Canada has increased over the
past fifteen years, and 2003 saw an all-time record high number
of sightings reported. People continue to report observing
unusual objects in the sky, and some of these objects do not
have obvious explanations. Many witnesses are pilots, police and
other individuals with reasonably good observing capabilities
and good judgement. Although most reported UFOs are simply
lights in the night sky, a significant number are objects with
definite shapes observed within the witnesses' frame of
reference.

Popular opinion to the contrary, there is yet to be any
incontrovertible evidence that some UFO cases involve
extraterrestrial contact. The continued reporting of UFOs by the
public and the yearly increase in numbers of UFO reports
suggests a need for further examination of the phenomenon by
social, medical and/or physical scientists.

For further information, contact:
Ufology Research of Manitoba,
e-mail: rutkows.nul

Note: A toll-free telephone number to report UFO sightings in
Canada has become operational. This "UFO Hotline" is:
1-866-262-1989.

Raison D'etre

Why bother to collect UFO reports? In one sense, the answer may
be as simple as "because they're there." Polls by both
professional and lay organizations have shown that approximately
ten per cent of all North Americans believe they have seen UFOs.
Given the population data available, this implies a very large
number of UFO reports. If UFOs are trivial and non-existent, as
some claim, then one might ask why such a large percentage of
the population is labouring under the delusion of seeing things
that are "not there." If, on the other hand, UFOs represent a
"real" phenomenon, the data should be examined for insight into
its nature. In either situation, it can be argued that UFO
reports deserve and merit serious scientific attention.

In general, the public equates UFOs with alien visitation.
However, there is no incontrovertible proof that this is a real
connection. In order to determine if there might be signs of
extraterrestrial contact, research on the actual characteristics
of UFO reports is needed. Do the reports really bear out such a
linkage? What, exactly, are people seeing and reporting as UFOs?
Are they seeing "classic" Hollywood-style flying saucers, like
those portrayed in movies and television shows? Are there really
well-documented and well-witnessed UFO reports, with no
explanation as to their nature? Given the general public
perception that aliens exist and are present in our Solar
System, and that the answers to these questions may already
exist in the beliefs and desires of popular culture, a thorough
examination of actual UFO reports would go far to provide
necessary insight into the phenomenon.

What is generally overlooked by most writers and readers on this
subject is that UFO reports are the foundation of ufology (the
study of the UFO phenomenon). While this may seem an obvious
fact, many books on UFOs and related subjects proceed on the
basis of assumptions, theories and individual anecdotal
accounts. Many books about UFO abductions on bookstore shelves
give the impression that this aspect of the UFO phenomenon
constitutes most of ufology. This is certainly not the case; UFO
research begins with the investigation of UFO reports. It is
through later collection and study that researchers can theorise
about the phenomenon and eventually write papers and books
speculating about UFO origins (including the possible evidence
of alien contact.) Abduction cases actually comprise a very tiny
fraction of the bulk of UFO data. The "bread and butter" of UFO
research lies not in fanciful discourses about aliens' genetic
manipulation of humans but in what UFO witnesses are actually
seeing and reporting.

This last point cannot be overemphasized. The UFO reports
collected and analysed in our annual Surveys are the only data
upon which studies of Canadian UFOs can be reasonably based. As
UFOs are a worldwide phenomenon, the results of analyses of
Canadian UFO reports can easily be applied to cases in other
countries. In effect, this is the empirical data for research in
this field. If one wants to know what people really are seeing
in the skies, the answer lies within these reports.

The General Collection of UFO Data

Many individuals, associations, clubs and groups claim to
investigate UFO reports. Many solicit reports from the general
public. Comparatively few actually participate in any kind of
information sharing or data gathering for scientific programs.
Some are primarily interest groups based in museums,
planetariums, church basements or individuals' homes, and do
essentially nothing with the sighting reports they receive.
Because there is no way to enforce standards in UFO report
investigations, the quality of case investigations varies
considerably between groups and across provinces. Quantitative
studies are difficult because subjective evaluations and
differences in investigative techniques do not allow precise
comparisons. UFOROM's requests for data from Canadian UFO
researchers and investigators include only basic information
that can be used in rigourous analyses. This includes things
such as date of the sighting, the time, duration, number of
witnesses and their location - facts which are not subjective
and can be used in scientific studies before interpretation.

The Official Collection of UFO Data

Until 1995, the National Research Council of Canada (NRC)
routinely collected UFO reports from private citizens, RCMP,
civic police and military personnel. This collection of data was
in support of the NRC's interest in the retrieval of meteorites,
with the idea that witnesses' reports of bright lights in the
sky were mostly fireballs and meteors which could then be
triangulated to locate fallen meteorites. (In fact, the
Innisfree meteorite was found in Alberta through this system.)

This practice ceased as a result of budgetary restrictions,
lowered prioritization of meteoric research and the perceived
reduction in importance of UFO data. However, included among the
NRC reports were many observations of meteors and fireballs, and
these have been added into the UFOROM database since 1989. For
several years, the collection of such reports was in an
effective hiatus, but in 2000, an arrangement facilitated that
UFO sightings reported to Transport Canada could then be
referred to UFOROM for research into the phenomenon. This does
not mean that UFOROM receives all official government or
military UFO reports. UFO sightings reported to the RCMP, for
example, will normally get sent only to RCMP Divisional
Headqaurters.

Another reason why UFO data should be collected and studied is
found in official directives of the Department of National
Defence regarding the actions of all pilots in Canadian
airspace. In documents relating to CIRVIS (Communications
Instructions for Reporting Vital Intelligence Sightings), both
civilians and military personnel are instructed that:

     CIRVIS reports should be made immediately upon a vital
     intelligence sighting of any airborne, waterborne and
     ground objects or activities which appear to be
     hostile, suspicious, unidentified or engaged in illegal
     smuggling activity.

     Examples of events requiring CIRVIS reports are:

          - unidentified flying objects;
          - submarines or warships which are not Canadian or
          American;
          - violent explosions; and
          - unexplained or unusual activity in Polar
          regions, abandoned airstrips or other remote,
          sparsely populated areas.

     [DND Flight Information Publication - GPH 204. Flight
     Planning and Procedures, Canada and North Atlantic,
     Issue No. 57, Effective 0901Z 20 May 1999]

In other words, it is considered in the best interests of
everyone to report UFO sightings, and certainly of interest to
the Department of National Defence. The annual Canadian UFO
Survey looks critically at UFO sightings and assesses their
nature.

 For the purposes of this and other scientific studies of UFO
data, UFO sightings which have been made to recognized
contributing and participating groups, associations,
organizations or individuals (for a list of contributors see
page 2 of this report) are considered officially reported and
valid as data in this study. The collection of Canadian UFO data
is challenging. However, the data obtained for analysis yields
results that can be compared with other studies. This is useful
in understanding the nature of UFO reports not only in Canada,
but can shed light on the nature of UFO reports elsewhere in the
world.

UFO Reports in Canada

The following table shows the numbers of reported UFOs per year
since 1989.


        Year            Number of cases       Cumulative total

        1989                  141                   141

        1990                  194                   335

        1991                  165                   500

        1992                  223                   723

        1993                  489                   1212

        1994                  189                   1401

        1995                  183                   1584

        1996                  258                   1842

        1997                  284                   2126

        1998                  194                   2320

        1999                  259                   2579

        2000                  263                   2842

        2001                  374                   3216

        2002                  483                   3699

        2003                  673                   4372

The number of UFO reports per year has varied annually,
depending on a number of factors. However, yearly totals have
generally been slowly but steadily increasing since 1989. The
year 2003 saw a 39 per cent increase in UFO report numbers over
2002. Remarkably, between 1998 and 2003, there has been an
almost 350 per cent increase in the number of UFO reports. This
clearly contradicts comments by those who would assert that UFOs
are a "passing fad" or that the number of UFO sightings is
decreasing. In fact, since media coverage of UFOs has been
decreased in recent years, it is more striking that without
media stimuli, UFO sightings are being reported in greater
numbers.

Still, we must recognize that yearly figures are greatly
dependent on many factors, especially the cooperation of
contributors to the annual survey. The large number of UFO
reports in 1993 was almost entirely due to a single major
fireball event which spawned reports by hundreds of independent
observers across the country. Similarly, the dramatic increase
in UFO reports for 2003 is partly due to a single major event on
July 28, 2003, in the Okanagan Valley, in which literally
hundreds of people observed and reported seeing a band of white
light arching across the sky. This spectacular sight was
certainly not a fireball but may still eventually have a
conventional explanation. There is no question that something
was seen, due to the large number of witnesses reporting it over
a very wide area. Nevertheless, the 2003 data represents the
largest number of UFO reports ever recorded in a single year in
the 15-year history of the annual Canadian UFO Survey.

UFOs and IFOs

For this study, the working definition of a UFO is an object
seen in the sky which its observer cannot identify.

Studies of UFO data routinely include reports of meteors,
fireballs and other conventional objects. In many instances,
observers fail to recognize stars, aircraft and bolides, and
therefore report them as UFOs. Witnesses often report watching
stationary flashing lights low on the horizon for hours and
never conclude they are observing a star or planet.

Some UFO investigators spend many hours sorting IFOs from
UFOs. Historically, analyses of UFO data such as the American
projects Grudge, Sign and Blue Book all included raw UFO data
which later were resolved into categories of UFOs and IFOs.
Sometimes, observed objects are quickly assigned a particular IFO
explanation even though later investigation suggests such an
explanation was unwarranted. The reverse is also true.

The issue of including IFOs in studies of UFO data is an
important one. One could argue that once a sighting is
explained, it has no reason to be considered as a UFO report.
However, this overlooks the fact that the IFO was originally
reported as a UFO and is indeed valid data. It may not be
evidence of extraterrestrial visitation, but as UFO data, it is
quite useful. It must be remembered that all major previous
studies of UFOs examined UFO reports with the intent to explain
a certain percentage of cases. These cases were the IFOs -
 definitely part of the UFO report legacy.

IFOs are problematic in that they are not interesting to most
ufologists. In fact, some UFO investigators readily admit they
do not record details about UFO reports that seem easily
explained as ordinary objects. This may be a serious error. The
UFO witness may be conscientiously reporting an object that is
mysterious to him or her - the exact definition of a UFO.
Therefore, even late-night, anonymous telephone calls that are
obviously reports of airplanes or planets should be rightly
logged as UFO reports. It seems reasonable that all UFO reports
be included in statistical databases and in later studies on the
phenomenon, regardless of the cases' later reclassification as
IFOs.

The IFO question became more significant in 2003 as many more
fireball and meteor reports than usual were added as data from
astronomical sources. Brilliant fireballs have always been
included within UFO data, especially the American military
studies, and have been included in the UFOROM annual studies as
a matter of course and to allow better comparisons with
historical studies. As fireball reporting networks become more
efficient, however, the number of IFOs in the UFO database
increases dramatically. Many fireballs are reported as UFOs and
are thus justifiably included in the UFO database. Others that
are reported as fireballs and bolides might not be considered
appropriate for inclusion, and this problem should be addressed
in later analyses.

Since most UFO reports can be explained and reclassified as
IFOs, this fact attests to the reality of the objects seen. UFO
reports actually reflect real events which occur. When a UFO is
reported, a real object has been seen that was not just a
fantasy of a witness' imagination.

Method

Data for each case was received by UFOROM from participating
researchers across Canada. The information then was coded by
members of UFOROM and entered into a Microsoft Excel database
and statistically analysed.


     An example of the coding key is as follows:

Example: 2003  01 09 1530 Vernon BC DD 900 silver  2    ps  6   5
UFOBC  p  four objs. seen

Field:           1     2   3     4         5       6     7      8
9     10  11 12 13     14      15    16

     Field 1 is a default YEAR for the report.
     Field 2 is the MONTH of the incident.
     Field 3 is the DATE of the sighting.
     Field 4 is the local TIME, on the 24-hour clock.
     Field 5 is the geographical LOCATION of the incident.
     Field 6 is the PROVINCE where the sighting occurred.
     Field  7  is  the  TYPE of report, using the Modified  Hynek
     Classification System.
     Field 8 is the DURATION of the sighting, in seconds  (a
     value of 600 thus represents 10 minutes).
     Field 9 is the primary COLOUR of the object(s) seen
     Field 10 is the number of WITNESSES
     Field 11 is the SHAPE of the object(s) seen
     Field 12 is the STRANGENESS of the report.
     Field 13 is the RELIABILITY of the report.
     Field 14 is the SOURCE of the report.
     Field 15 is the EVALUATION of the case.
     Field 16 includes any COMMENTS noted about the case.


Analyses of the Data

Distribution of UFO Reports Across Canada

In 2003, British Columbia had more than 45 per cent of the total
number of UFO sightings reported in Canada, a substantial over-
 representation based on population alone. Ontario and Quebec
together constitute more than 60 per cent of Canada's
population, but had less than 30 per cent of the total number of
UFO reports in 2003. Only 31 cases were reported east of Quebec
in 2003. In 2003, the numbers of UFO reports in BC, Alberta,
Ontario and Quebec were the highest ever recorded.

                             TABLE 1
             Distribution of UFO Reports by Province


       BC   AB  SK   MB  ON  PQ  NB  PEI  NS  NF  YK  NT  NU

1989   15   16  18   22  34  28   1   -    3   3   -   1

1990   76    9  10   20  21  36   7   3    5   4   1   2

1991   59   22   7    6  30  16   9   1    7   4   1   -

1992   90    8   9   23  56  10   9   -    3   4   3   1

1993  157   56  93   74  51  32   3   1    3   7   -   5

1994   14   39   8   10  51  34   6   -    9   6   3   3

1995   45   10  11   48  41  20   -   -    1   1   -   4

1996   43   10  11   39  63  45   1   -    9   1  35   -

1997   99   11   5   32  72  24   1   1    6   3   8  22

1998   58    6  14   15  59  15   1   1    -   -  22   2

1999  118   19   1    6  79   8   1   1    0   6  20   0

2000  102   17   8   19  53  22   0   0   15   0  26   0

2001  123   40  12   20  87  34   5   2   21   6  18   1

2002  176   51   6   36 128  34   4   0   23   3  20   0

2003 304   76   19   25 150  49   4   2   21   4  16   2   5


In addition, the geographical names of UFO sighting locations
were examined for trends. Many cities were found to have
multiple reports, and these are noted in the following table.
Large metropolitan areas include their suburbs.

In 2003, Vancouver (including Surrey, North Vancouver, etc.) was
cited as a location where UFOs were most frequently observed.
Metro Toronto held this honour in 2002, but was second in 2003.
Two small towns in northern British Columbia appeared on the
list as third and fourth. Making the top ten list for the first
time were Airdrie (Alberta) and Kelowna (BC). Calgary and
Edmonton's traditional rivalry persists in both cities making
the list. Kimberly, Vernon and Winnipeg also had significant
numbers of UFO reports.


     Canadian Cities With the Most UFO Reports in 2003


 Rank    Rank         City          Province        Number of
  in      in                                         Reports
 2003    2002

   1       2       Vancouver           BC              41

   2       1        Toronto            ON              34

   3       4        Houston            BC              33

   4       3        Terrace            BC              30

   5                Airdrie            AB              17

   6                Kelowna            BC              16

   7       9        Calgary            AB              15

   8       6        Edmonton           AB              14

   9       5        Winnipeg           MB              13
 (tie)

   9                Kimberly           BC              13
 (tie)

   9                 Vernon            BC              13
 (tie)



Monthly Trends in UFO Reports

Monthly breakdowns of reports during each year tend to show
slightly different patterns. For example, in 1999, UFO cases had
no clear peaks in monthly report numbers, but the year 2000 saw
a very significant set of peaks in August and October and
troughs in May and June. UFO reports are generally thought to
peak in summer and trough in winter, presumably due to the more
pleasant observing conditions during the summer months, when
more witnesses are outside. In 2003, a very unusual monthly
variation was found. With the exception of a large peak in
July/August and a lesser one in October, there was almost a
constant level of UFO activity reported throughout the year. The
yearly trough in May/June was slightly evident. This is counter-
intuitive to the belief that more UFOs are seen when there are
more people outside during warmer periods of the year.



                             TABLE 2
                     Monthly Report Numbers


         J    F   M    A    M    J    J    A    S    O    N    D

1989    13    9   6    9    5    9    5    5   12   32   27    9

1990    17    7   6    47   10  10    9   47   15   16   10    -

1991    13    7   17   12    7  12   16   25   16   12   11   17

1992    15   16   27   16   22  16   23   19   11   16   21   21

1993    59   15   20   22   14  38   27   49   41  152   24   21

1994    16   12   15   21   15  37   19    8   15   10    7   13

1995    14   12   13    9    9  10   28   33   28   11   11    5

1996    37   18   20   16    8  20   30   32   10   22   30   11

1997    19   11   31   29   17  13   29   29   22   16   26   37

1998     3    4    8    5    9  13   16   40   45   35    7    4

1999     8   20   22    7   31  10   27   36   30   29   30    7

2000    21   17   15   21   12  11   19   46   20   44   15   19

2001    36   19   33   25   17  26   51   81   25   17   27   16

2002    31   54   41   28   36  44   73   74   42   26   19   14

2003    41   46   46   46   31  30  131  102   46   64   43   47


UFO Report Types

An analysis by report type shows a similar breakdown to that
found in previous years. The percentage of cases of a particular
type remains roughly constant from year to year, with some
variations. Nocturnal Lights (NLs), increased 51 per cent in
2002 to 64 per cent in 2003. Daylight Disc reports decreased
from 15.8 per cent in 2002 to 11 per cent in 2003. In general,
more UFOs in 2003 were simply lights seen in the night sky.
Nearly 87 per cent of all UFO sightings in 2003, including both
NL and Nocturnal Disc (ND) cases, occurred at night.

Less than 3 per cent of all reported UFO cases in 2003 were
Close Encounters. Very, very few UFO cases involve anything
other than distant objects seen in the sky. This is an important
statistic, because the current popular interest in abductions
and sensational UFO encounters is based not on the vast majority
of UFO cases but on the very tiny fraction of cases which fall
into the category of close encounters. The endless speculation
of what aliens may or may not be doing in our airspace seems
almost completely unconnected to what are actually being
reported as UFOs.

                              TABLE 3

          Report Types (Modified Hynek Classifications)


          NL    ND    DD    C1    C2    C3   C4

1989      84    20    16    10     7    -     2

1990     141    24    15     2     1    -     4

1991     110    26    13     7     4    1     2

1992     136    44    20    15     5    2     3

1993     372    77    26     8     2    1     1

1994-95  234    78    28    21     1     1    5

1996     170    40    27     8     3     4    1

1997     145    62    52     4     2     5    8

1998     115    23    25     6     1     -    -

1999     163    44    37     3     7     1    -

2000     179    31    26     4     2     2    -

2001     218    80    55     8     1     3    3

2002     293    94    76     8     5     0    1

2003     431   152    74     5     5     3    2


For those unfamiliar with the classifications, a summary
follows:

NL (Nocturnal Light) - light source in night sky

ND (Nocturnal Disc) - light source in night sky that appears
     to have a definite shape

DD (Daylight Disc) - unknown object observed during daytime
    hours

C1 (Close Encounter of the First Kind) - ND or DD occurring
     within 200 metres of a witness

C2 (Close Encounter of the Second Kind) - C1 where physical
    effects left or noted

C3 (Close Encounter of the Third Kind) - C1 where
   figures/entities are encountered

C4 (Close Encounter of the Fourth Kind) - an alleged
   "abduction" or "contact" experience

Note: The category of Nocturnal Disc was created in the 1980s by
UFOROM originally for differentiation of cases within its own
report files.

Hourly Distribution

The hourly distribution of cases has usually followed a similar
pattern every year, with a peak at 2200 hours local and a trough
around 1000 hours local. In 2002, there was an unexpected slight
shift in the peak from 2200 to 2300 hours, and a shift in the
trough from 1000 to noon. In 2003, the peak is again at 2300
hours, but the trough has shifted earlier than before, to 0900.

Since most UFOs are nocturnal lights, most sightings will occur
during the evening hours. Since the number of possible observers
drops off sharply near midnight, we would expect  the hourly
rate of UFO reports would vary with two factors: potential
observers and darkness.

Duration

The category of Duration is interesting in that it represents
the subjective length of time the UFO experience lasted. In
other words, this is the length of time the sighting lasted as
estimated by the witness. Naturally, these times are greatly
suspect because it is known that people tend to badly misjudge
the flow of time. However, some people can be good at estimating
time, so this value has some importance. Although an estimate of
"one hour" may be in error by several minutes, it is unlikely
that the true duration would be, for example, one minute.
Furthermore, there have been cases when a UFO was observed and
clocked very accurately, so that we can be reasonably certain
that UFO events can last considerable periods of time.

The average duration of a sighting can be calculated as the sum
of all given durations divided by the number of cases with a
stated duration. This value has varied somewhat, from seven
minutes in 1994 to 25 minutes in 1996. In 2002, the average
duration of all cases was 920 seconds, or about 15 minutes, but
this duration fell significantly in 2003 to 613 seconds, or
about 10 minutes. This drop is probably due to the increase in
very short duration meteor/fireball reports.

Previous analyses have shown that long-duration sightings tend
to occur in the early morning hours, from about midnight until
6:00 a.m. It is probable that the majority of these observations
are of astronomical objects, moving slowly with the rotation of
the Earth.

The duration of a sighting is one of the biggest clues to its
explanation. Experience in studying UFO reports has shown us
that short duration events are usually fireballs or bolides, and
long duration events of an hour or more are very probably
astronomical objects. In between, there can be no way to
distinguish conventional objects from UFOs solely with Duration
data. One study by an Ontario UFO group which timed aircraft
observations found that the duration of such sightings varied
between 15 seconds to more than eight minutes. Therefore,
sightings with durations in this range could very well be
aircraft, providing other observational data do not contradict
such an explanation.

Colour

In cases where a colour of an object was reported by witnesses,
the most common colour in 2003 was white (37 per cent). The next
most common colour was "multicoloured," with 13 per cent of the
total. Next in order were orange, green and red. This is somewhat
different from 2002 in that red was much more common last year.
Since most UFOs are nocturnal starlike objects, the abundance of
white objects is not surprising. Colours such as red, orange,
blue and green often are associated with bolides (fireballs).
     The "multicoloured" designation is problematic in that it
literally covers a wide range of possibilities. Some studies of
UFO data have partitioned the category of Colour to include both
"primary" and "secondary" colours in cases where the observed UFO
had more than one colour. The multicoloured label has been used,
for example, when witnesses described their UFOs as having white,
red and green lights. (Many of these are certainly stars or
planets, which flash a variety of colours when seen low on the
horizon. Aircraft also frequently are described as having more
than one colour of light.) For our study, the Colour
classification refers only to the primary colour in the witness'
description.

Witnesses

The average number of witnesses per case between 1989 and 2002 is
approximately 2.00. This value has fluctuated between a high of
2.4 in 1996 to as low as 1.4 in 1990. In 2003, the average number
of witnesses per case was 2.04.

This indicates that the typical UFO experience has more than
one witness, and supports the contention that UFO sightings
represent observations of real, physical phenomena, since there
is usually a corroborator present to support the sighting.

Shape

Witnesses' descriptions of the shapes of UFOs vary greatly. In
2003, almost 40 per cent were of "point sources" -  that is,
"starlike" objects. The next most common shapes were "fireball,"
with 26 per cent and "triangle" at five per cent. The classic
"flying saucer" or disc-shaped object comprised only slightly
more than three per cent of all UFO reports, contrary to popular
opinion.

The shape of a perceived object depends on many factors such as
the witness' own visual acuity, the angle of viewing, the
distance of viewing and the witness' own biases and descriptive
abilities. Nevertheless, in combination with other case data
such as duration, shape can be a good clue towards a UFO's
possible explanation.

Strangeness

The assigning of a Strangeness rating to a UFO report is based
on a classification adopted by researchers who noted that the
inclusion of a subjective evaluation of the degree to which a
particular case is in itself unusual might yield some insight
into the data. For example, the observation of a single,
stationary, starlike light in the sky, seen for several hours,
is not particularly unusual and might likely have a prosaic
explanation such as that of a star or planet. On the other hand,
a detailed observation of a saucer-shaped object which glides
slowly away from a witness after an encounter with grey-skinned
aliens would be considered highly strange.

The numbers of UFO reports according to strangeness rating show
an inverse relationship such that the higher the strangeness
rating, the fewer reports. The one exception to this
relationship occurs in the case of very low strangeness cases,
which are relatively few in number compared to those of moderate
strangeness. It is suggested this is the case because in order
for an observation to be considered a UFO, it must usually rise
above an ad hoc level of strangeness, otherwise it would not be
considered strange at all.

The average strangeness rating for UFO reports during 2003 was
3.6, unchanged from 2002, where 1 is considered not strange at
all and 9 is considered exceptionally unusual. Therefore, most
UFOs reported are of objects which do not greatly stretch the
imagination. Hollywood-style flying saucers are, in reality,
relatively uncommon in UFO reports.

Reliability

The average Reliability rating of Canadian UFO reports in 2003
was 5.39, similar to 2002, indicating that there were
approximately the same number of higher quality cases as those
of low quality. Low reliability was assigned to reports with
minimal information on the witness, little or no investigation
and incomplete data or description of the object(s) observed.
Higher reliability cases might include actual interviews with
witnesses, a detailed case investigation, multiple witnesses,
supporting documentation and other evidence.

Reliability and Strangeness ratings tend to vary in classic
bell-shaped curves. In other words, there are very few cases
which were both highly unusual and well-reported. Most cases are
of medium strangeness and medium reliability. These are the
"high- quality unknowns" which will be discussed in a later
section of this study. However, there are also very few low-
strangeness cases with low reliability. Low-strangeness cases,
therefore, tend to be well-reported and probably have
explanations.

Sources

UFO data used in this study were supplied by many different
groups, organizations, official agencies and private
individuals. Since this annual survey began in the late 1980s,
more and more cases have been obtained and received via the
Internet.

In 2002, about 32 per cent of the total cases were obtained
through the private and non-profit National UFO Reporting Center
in the USA, which has a toll-free telephone number for reporting
UFOs and a large sightings list created through voluntary
submission of online report forms by witnesses. This
contribution dropped to 19 per cent in 2003. About seven per
cent of the 2003 cases came from UFO*BC (a significant drop from
about 67 per cent in 2001), which also has a toll-free number
and a significant public presence in its province. One can
speculate that if there were a well-advertised toll-free number
and accompanying website for reporting UFOs in each Canadian
province, perhaps yearly report numbers would increase
dramatically. The Houston BC Centre for UFOs (HBCCUFO) had the
lion's share of contributions, with 38 per cent, and it, too,
has a toll-free number for reporting UFOs across Canada. The
Meteor and Impacts Advisory Committee to the Canadian Space
Agency (MIAC) was the source for more than 16 per cent of all
fireball reports.

A little less than four per cent of the cases in 2003 came as a
result of information obtained through Transport Canada and the
Department of National Defence.

Evaluation (Explanations)

The breakdown by Evaluation for 2003 cases was similar to
results from previous years.  There were four operative
categories: Explained, Insufficient Information, Possible or
Probable Explanation, and Unknown (or Unexplained). It is
important to note that a classification of Unknown does not
imply that an alien spacecraft or mysterious natural phenomenon
was observed; no such interpretation can be made with certainty,
based solely on the given data (though the probability of this
scenario is technically never zero).

In most cases, an Evaluation is made subjectively by both the
contributing investigators and the compilers of this study. The
category of Unknown is adopted if the contributed data or case
report contains enough information such that a conventional
explanation cannot be satisfactorily proposed. This does not
mean that the case will never be explained, but only that a
viable explanation is not immediately obvious. Cases are also
re- evaluated periodically as additional data or information is
brought to attention or obtained through further investigation.

Since 1989, the average proportion of Unknowns has been about 13
per cent per year. In 2003, this was about 17 per cent. This is
a relatively high figure, implying that almost one in six UFOs
cannot be explained. However, there are several factors which
affect this value.

The level and quality of UFO report investigation varies because
there are no explicit and rigourous standards for UFO
investigation. Investigators who are "believers" might be
inclined to consider most UFO sightings as mysterious, whereas
those with more of a skeptical predisposition might tend to
subconsciously (or consciously) reduce the Unknowns in their
files.

During the first few years of these studies, an evaluation of
Explained was almost nonexistent. At first, contributors tended
to ignore UFO sightings that had a simple explanation and
deleted them as actual UFO data. Hence, the only UFO reports
submitted by contributors tended to be high-strangeness cases.
Contributors were then encouraged to submit data on all UFO
reports they received, so that a more uniform assessment and
evaluation process could be realized. Because many IFO cases
such as fireballs and meteors are initially reported as UFOs,
the Explained category was considered necessary for a full
review of UFO data. As noted previously, early American studies
of UFO data included such cases, so present-day comparative
studies should include such data as well. Furthermore, since
there are no absolutes, the subjective nature of assigning
Evaluations is actually an interpretation of the facts by
individual researchers.

The process of evaluating UFO sightings is often complex,
involving a series of steps that take into account errors of
observation and unpredictable but natural phenomena. Checks with
star charts, police, air traffic control operators and
meteorologists are often performed. Where possible, witnesses
are interviewed in person, and sketches or photographs of the
area may be examined. The intent is to eliminate as many
conventional explanations as possible before allowing an
evaluation or conclusion.


                             TABLE 4
                 Evaluation of Canadian UFO Data


         Explained    Insuf. Info.  Poss. Explan.   Unexplained

         #      per     #      per    #      per     #      per
               cent           cent          cent           cent

1989     0      0      74     52.5   47     33.3    20    14.2

1990     0      0      90     46.4   78    40.2     26    13.4

1991     2     1.2     80    48.5    69    41.8     14     8.5

1992    17      8      83     37     74     33      49     22

1993   154     1.5    170    34.8   115    23.5     50    10.2

1994-95 71    19.1    124    33.3   131    35.2     46    12.4

1996    24     9.3    105    40.7    87    33.7     42    16.3

1997    17     6.0    106    37.3   122     43      39    13.7

1998    10     5.1     75    38.7    87    44.8     22    11.3

1999    10     3.9     82    31.5   135    51.9     32    12.3

2000    22     8.5     94    36.4   108    41.9     34    13.2

2001    22     5.9    130    34.7   165    44.1     57    15.2

2002    12     2.5    192    39.7   192    39.7     87     18

2003   110    16.3    166    24.7   286    42.5    111    16.5

Total  471    10.7    1571   35.9   1296   29.6    629    14.4


There were 111 Unknowns out of 673 total cases in 2003. If we
look only at the Unknowns with a Reliability rating of 7 or
greater, we are left with 28 high-quality Unknowns in 2003
(about four per cent of the total). This is in agreement with
previous studies. As a comparison, USAF Blue Book studies found
three to four per cent of their cases were "excellent" Unknowns.

It should be emphasized again that even high-quality Unknowns do
not imply alien visitation. Each case may still have an
explanation following further investigation. And of those that
remain unexplained, they may remain unexplained, but still are
not incontrovertible proof of extraterrestrial intervention or
some mysterious natural phenomenon.


Summary of Results

As with previous studies, the 2003 Canadian UFO Survey does not
offer any positive proof that UFOs are either alien spacecraft
or a specific natural phenomenon. However, it does show that
some phenomenon which often is called a UFO is continually being
observed by witnesses.

The typical UFO sighting is that of two people together
observing a moving, distant white or red light for several
minutes. In most cases, the UFO is likely to be eventually
identified as a conventional object such as an aircraft or
astronomical object. However, in a small percentage of cases,
some UFOs do not appear to have an easy explanation and may be
given the label of "unknown."

What are these "unknowns?" From a completely scientific
standpoint, we have no way of extrapolating a definitive
explanation based on this data. Biases for or against the view
that UFOs are extraterrestrial spacecraft often hinder the
scientific process and cloud the issue. A 'debunker' who has a
strong belief that UFO reports are all fabrications or
misinterpretations may tend to dismiss a truly unusual case out
of hand, whereas a 'believer' who believes aliens are indeed
visiting Earth may read something mysterious into a case with a
conventional explanation.

All that a study of this kind can do is present the data and
some rudimentary analyses. The recognition that there really are
only a handful of higher-quality unknowns among the mass of UFO
cases might lead a debunker to believe they, too, might find an
explanation if enough effort were to be expended, but to a
believer this might be the required proof that some UFOs have no
explanations.

The Evaluation value is a subjective value imposed by the
investigator or compiler (or both) with a scale such that the
low values represent cases with little information content and
observers of limited observing abilities and the higher values
represent those cases with excellent witnesses (pilots, police,
etc.) and also are well-investigated.  Naturally, cases with
higher values are preferred. The interpretation of the 111
Unknowns is that these cases were among the most challenging of
all the reports received in 2003. It should be noted that most
UFO cases go unreported, and that there may be ten times as many
UFO sightings that go unreported as those which get reported to
public, private or military agencies. Furthermore, it should be
noted that some cases with lower reliability ratings suffer only
from incomplete investigations, and that they may well be more
mysterious than those on the list of Unknowns. And, above all,
these cases are not proof of extraterrestrial visitation.

Other comments

Since 1989, rate of UFO reporting in Canada has been an average
of 20 cases per month, although this has been increasing during
the past five years. In 2002, the monthly rate was 40 per month,
or at least one UFO sighting each day somewhere in Canada. The
rate jumped significantly again in 2003, to more than 50
sightings per month.

The increase in the numbers of UFO reports with time likely
does not have a simple explanation. It could be related to a
growing awareness within the general population that there are
agencies which collect UFO reports. It could be that there really
are more UFOs physically present in the sky. It could be that the
collection of UFO data is becoming more efficient. While media
have been noted as playing a definite role in UFO waves (a
national increase in UFO sightings), media coverage of UFO
reports has significantly declined over the past decade while the
number of reports has risen. Perhaps a cultural factor is at work
as well, where "aliens" and UFOs are now well-entrenched within
the societal mindset and are accepted as more probable than
fiction. This question by itself is deserving of scientific
study.

UFO witnesses range from farmhands to airline pilots and from
teachers to police officers. Witnesses represent all age groups
and racial origin. What is being observed? In most cases, only
ordinary objects. However, this begs a question. If people are
reporting things that can be explained, then the objects they
observed were "really" there. Were the objects we can't identify
"really" there as well? If so, what were they?

These are questions that only continued and rational research
can answer, and only if researchers have the support and
encouragement of both scientists and the public.


       Contributing Organizations

AUFOSG (Alberta UFO Study Group)
http://www.aufosg.com
e-mail: aufosg2003.nul (Jim Moroney)

National UFO Reporting Center
http://www.ufocenter.com
e-mail: director.nul (Peter Davenport)

UFO Nova Scotia
http://www.donledger.com
e-mail: dledger.nul (Don Ledger)

MUFON Ontario
http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/mufonontario/mufonindex.html
e-mail: mufonont.nul (Errol Bruce-Knapp)

HBCC UFO Research
http://www.hbccufo.com
e-mail: hbccufo.nul (Brian Vike)

UFO*BC
http://www.ufobc.ca
e-mail: dave.nul (Dave Pengilly)
et al.

UFOROM (Ufology Research of Manitoba)
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Delphi/7998
e-mail: rutkows.nul (Chris Rutkowski)
http://www.geocities.com/aristotl.geo
e-mail: gdittman.nul (Geoff Dittman)

CHUCARA
Box 61
La Prairie, Quebec    J5R 3Y1
http://www.chucara.com
e-mail: jpoulet.nul (Jacques Poulet)

UFO Updates
http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates
e-mail: ufoupdates.nul (Errol Bruce-Knapp)

UFO Roundup
http://ufoinfo.com/roundup
e-mail: masinaigan.nul (Joseph Trainor)

Filer's Files
http://www.filersfiles.com
e-mail: majorstar.nul (George Filer)

Para-Researchers of Ontario
http://pararesearchers.org
e-mail: sue.nul (Sue Darroch)

Haunted Hamilton
http://www.hauntedhamilton.com
e-mail: info.nul (Stephanie Lechniak)

Hauntings Research Group (Ontario)
http://www.hauntingsresearchgroup.homestead.com/
e-mail: agoodrich_hrg.nul (Anita Goodrich)

Paranormal Phenomena Research & Investigation (PPRI) (Nova
Scotia)
http://www.ppri.cjb.net
e-mail: foxmulder.nul

Newfoundland UFO Research (NUFOR)
e-mail: nufor.nul

Newfoundland UFOs
e-mail: nfufos.nul (Jen H.)

UFO Yukon Research Society
http://www.ufobc.ca/yukon/index.html
e-mail: mjjasek.nul (Martin Jasek)

Transport Canada
Department of National Defence
Royal Canadian Mounted Police

          Most Interesting Canadian 'Unknowns' in 2003

The following are those Canadian UFO reports in 2003 which had a
Reliability Rating of 7 or greater, a Strangeness Rating of 6 or
greater and which were also assigned an Evaluation of Unknown.

January 31, 2003
10:30 pm  Villeneuve, AB
Two witnesses watched a large, white object, described as "two
saucers rim to rim," move slowly through a farm yard and over
some houses, then out of sight.

February 12, 2003
9:02 pm   Vancouver, BC
A dark triangular craft with some sort of structured
undercarriage was seen to fly silently over the city. It was in
view for three minutes by two witnesses.

February 19, 2003
9:20 am   Raymore, SK
A fast-moving silvery object, "like a cruise missile," flew
swiftly across snow-covered fields east of Regina, heading
north.

March 3, 2003
7:55 am   Houston, BC
The driver and passenger of a truck travelling along a highway
watched as a silver object the size and shape of "an Airstream
trailer" flew alongside them, then zoomed away.

April 21, 2003
11:45 pm  Houston, BC
Two people watched an unusual black object with several rows of
lights on its surface swept back in a "V" shape as it flew
silently west to east.

July 7, 2003
10:30 pm  Verdun, PQ
A witness watched a gray, teardrop-shaped object moving slowly
at low altitude over rooftops, making an unusual whirring sound.

July 31, 2003
1:00 am   Glenmore, BC
Eight people saw some unusual, green nocturnal lights moving in
the sky. Shortly thereafter, two of the witnesses began having
odd dreams and panic attacks, and believed they had periods of
"missing time," suggestive of alien abduction.

August 6, 2003
12:32 am  North Bay, ON
Three witnesses watched as a gray, cigar-shaped object,
stationary in the sky, became "wavy" and then suddenly
disappeared from view after five minutes.

August 10, 2003
2:22 pm   Whitehorse, YK
A large fuselage-shaped object flew low along a road, under some
guy wires, and among trees.

August 23, 2003
6:45 pm   Winnipeg, MB
A saucer-shaped object with "protrusions" was observed by three
witnesses for 30 seconds as it flew over some cars on a highway.

September 21, 2003
Whitehorse, YK
A triangular object with red lights flew over a pair of
witnesses.

December 8, 2003
8:45 pm   Houston, BC
An unusual white, oval object with a ring of blue lights hovered
overtop a house, dropping sparks, then flew steadily towards the
mountains and was lost to sight.

December 24, 2003
1:00 pm   Airdrie, AB
Three people watched a chrome-coloured "marble" hanging
motionless in the sky. After about
15 seconds, it vanished without a trace.

A note about the "Okanagan Arch"

On July 28, 2003, two very unusual objects were observed in the
night sky by literally hundreds of witnesses in southern British
Columbia, many of then in the Okanagan Valley.

First, at approximately 12:45 am, a "moon-sized" object was seen
flying over the region. The object traveled from the northwest
to the southeast, changing direction in some cases to move over
local mountains, and dropping into valleys. When it did this the
object traveled briefly to the west then made its turn back on
course to the southeast. The object was reported by all
witnesses as being "as large as a full moon" and extremely
bright white in colour. Its movement was described by several
witnesses as a "zig- zag." No sound was associated with the
object. The weather conditions were clear, as it was a star-
filled night. Shortly thereafter, a beam of light appeared
overhead, arching across the sky at about 1:00 am and persisting
until at least 2:00 am. The beam or ray of white light was
observed from Kamloops to as far south and east as Jaffray,
British Columbia. People who watched the strange and puzzling
event said the white light looked "as bright as a fluorescent
tube" and said it was arced from horizon to horizon as if one
was viewing a rainbow. The beam of light sat almost stationary
in this position for approximately an hour before dissipating.
Almost everyone who witnessed the beam of white light said they
had never seen anything like this before. All said they had
watched the northern lights many times, but they insisted this
was certainly not the aurora.

The fact that hundreds of witnesses reported the two events is
testament that something physically real was observed. In some
cases, both objects were reported by the same observers. The
possibility of an astronomical cause was first considered, but
this does not seem a viable explanation. If the arch was a
meteor train, its hour-long persistence would be highly
unlikely, especially one as bright as reported. As it turns out,
there was a bright bolide reported near Omak, Washington, at
12:27 am on July 28, 2003, fragmenting as it flew in the
northwest sky. It lasted for two seconds. Although its location
and direction would place it in the right area, it is very odd
that none of the hundreds of witnesses of the arch reported
seeing such a bright fireball.

Another factor that could be involved in the arch is the fire
situation in the BC interior about that time. Forest fires
ravaged much of the Okanagan Valley during the summer,
especially where the arch was seen. This seems more than a
coincidence. It is quite possible that the first object could
have been, perhaps, a water bomber or a related fire fighting
aircraft. As for the arch itself, one can speculate that light
from the fires reflected off their own clouds of smoke. One
problem with this suggestion is that witnesses of the arch
described it as brilliant white, whereas reflected fire light
would likely be more red or orange in colour.

An astronomer at Penticton Observatory was asked to comment on
the arch, and he noted:

My recollection is that the fires had started before then so
their effects are certainly something to consider. On the other
hand, this summer I became aware of a phenomenon known as the
'Okanagan Arch', a whitish band which crosses the sky, similar
in form to an aurora but not an aurora colour, persists for
hours, is seen in the Okanagan from time to time, and nobody
knows what it is, in particular nobody at the observatory. One
of these was reported in mid-August, and the descriptions for
July 28 sound very similar.

So even astronomers were scratching their heads over this
phenomenon. Where does this leave us? A persistent aerial
phenomenon that is not astronomical could therefore be
atmospheric in nature. Noctilucent clouds, perhaps? But why
suddenly, for an entire hour, so geometrically perfect and so
long after sunset? Earthquake lights? Yet the description does
not match most EQL reports. Further, the arch did not precede or
follow any significant seismic activity in the region. There was
a minor 3.2 M earthquake on August 12, 59 km west of Kelowna,
but it would be difficult to connect such a low-energy event
with such a phenomenal aerial display, especially since stronger
events in the same area did not generate such arches. For
example, a much stronger 4.6 M earthquake in Wyoming on August
21 has not been associated with any luminous aerial displays.

Unfortunately, we are left with many reports of a well-witnessed
luminous aerial phenomenon with no explanation.








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   Feb > Feb 11

                          Secrecy News -- 02/10/04

From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood.nul>
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 13:34:44 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 05:22:27 -0500
Subject: Secrecy News -- 02/10/04


SECRECY NEWS
from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy
Volume 2004, Issue No. 16
February 10, 2004


**      2002 INTEL BUDGET TOTAL EXEMPT FROM FOIA, COURT RULES
**      CRS ON SENSITIVE SECURITY INFORMATION
**      CRS ON PATRIOT ACT SUNSET


2002 INTEL BUDGET TOTAL EXEMPT FROM FOIA, COURT RULES

The 2002 intelligence budget total is exempt from disclosure
under the Freedom of Information Act, a federal court judge has
ruled, because that number, which was around $35 billion,
"relates to intelligence sources or methods that the DCI must
protect."

The ruling by D.C. District Judge Ricardo M. Urbina, dated
February 6 and disclosed today, came in a Freedom of Information
Act lawsuit against the Central Intelligence Agency brought by
the Federation of American Scientists.

Last April, Director of Central Intelligence George J. Tenet
swore under penalty of perjury that disclosure of the total
intelligence budget for 2002 -- a single number encompassing the
intelligence-related expenditures of more than a dozen agencies
-- would damage national security and compromise sources and
methods.

Given the DCI's personal intervention, the court's ruling was no
great surprise.  To have ordered budget disclosure would have
been to publicly call George Tenet a liar.

And yet the decision is a disappointment, since it means that
there is no one in authority who will stand up and say that CIA
budget secrecy is wrong on the merits.

By any rational measure, it is simply not true that disclosing
the intelligence budget total would damage national security or
intelligence methods.  That is why a growing number of foreign
democracies publish the size of their intelligence accounts.
That is also why the CIA itself disclosed the 1997 and 1998
budget totals ($26.6 and $26.7 billion, respectively), in
response to previous litigation.

Judge Urbina, who often issues rulings that are models of
discernment and empathy, in this case declined to confront the
core dispute or to exercise independent review of CIA's
substantive claims.  His decision is here:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/foia/2002/rmu020604.pdf


CRS ON SENSITIVE SECURITY INFORMATION

"Sensitive Security Information" (SSI) is a relatively new
category of aviation security-related information whose
disclosure is restricted, generating disputes over whether and
when secrecy concerning transportation security is warranted.

Based in statute, SSI includes "information about security
programs, vulnerability assessments, technical specifications of
certain screening equipment and objects used to test screening
equipment ... and other information."

"The [SSI] regulations are intended to reduce the risk of vital
security information reaching the wrong hands and resulting in
another terrorist attack," according to a new report from the
Congressional Research Service (CRS).

But they "have raised a number of concerns about the management
of such information and the accountability of governmental
agencies."

The use of the SSI restriction by the Transportation Security
Agency and the resulting tensions over public access are
explored by CRS analyst Mitchel A. Sollenberger in "Sensitive
Security Information (SSI) and Transportation Security:
Background and Controversies," February 5:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/RS21727.pdf

The House Committee on House Administration, led by Rep. Bob Ney
(R-OH), opposes direct public access to CRS reports like this
one.


CRS ON PATRIOT ACT SUNSET

Over a dozen provisions of the USA Patriot Act regarding certain
aspects of foreign intelligence and law enforcement surveillance
authority are set to expire automatically on December 31, 2005.

The affected provisions are itemized and explored in this new
report from the Congressional Research Service:  "USA Patriot
Act Sunset: Provisions That Expire on December 31, 2005" by
Charles Doyle, January 2:

http://www.fas.org/irp/crs/RL32186.pdf

An abbreviated version of the same report is available as "USA
Patriot Act Sunset: A Sketch," January 7:

http://www.fas.org/irp/crs/RS21704.pdf

Direct public access to these reports is provided without
congressional authorization.


_______________________________________________
Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the
Federation of American Scientists.

To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to
secrecy_news-request.nul
with "subscribe" in the body of the message.

OR email your request to saftergood.nul

Secrecy News is archived at:
http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html

_______________________
Steven Aftergood
Project on Government Secrecy
Federation of American Scientists
web:    www.fas.org/sgp/index.html
email:  saftergood.nul
voice:  (202) 454-4691








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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   Feb > Feb 11

                    Re: Review Of Sight Unseen - Gonzalez

From: Luis R. Gonzalez <lrgm.nul>
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 20:12:56 +0100
Fwd Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 05:24:14 -0500
Subject: Re: Review Of Sight Unseen - Gonzalez


>From: Greg Sandow <greg.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 16:39:43 -0500
>Subject: Re: Review Of Sight Unseen

>>From: Nick Pope <nick.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 20:10:52 -0000
>>Subject: Re: Review Of Sight Unseen

>>>Has he ever found at least 3 independent abductees (ideally, from 3
>>>different investigators) who describe at least 4 identical complex
>>>symbols?

<snip>

>All of them have these same elements; none
>of them had anything that wasn't built from these elements.

>Later Budd told me that, in fact, he had 35 samples. He showed
>them to me. Same story again - the additional 21 samples were
>equally as consistent, both with the original 14 and with each
>other. I believe he should publish them, exactly as he says he's
>received them. At one point, JUFOS was interested in publishing
>a study of the symbols, but it then ceased publication for a
>while. I don't know if the project has ever gotten back on
>track.

>That's what I know about this subject. Anyone who's seen Budd's
>notebooks, with the 35 samples of these allegedly remembered
>symbols, each in a different handwriting, would have to be
>impressed. Even die-hard debunkers (the kind who think
>abductees, generally speaking, need psychiatric help, despite
>numerous studies to the contrary) would have to grant that if
>this is a hoax, it's a fairly monumental one. Unless, of course,
>somebody thinks that Budd is hoaxing it.

Hi, Greg, nice to hear from you again!

Let me see if I have understand it properly. Are you saying that
Mr. Hopkins has collected (among the dozens of different alleged
alien symbols he has got in 25 years of investigations) not only
4 but 35 samples of substantially the same symbols? Are you
saying that Mr. Hopkins has collected from allegedly 35
different abductees, texts (in other words, long collection of
symbols) that seems to be written in the same language (Hebrew,
in your analogy)? Something as if you have collected
newsclippings from all over the world, and could group at least
35 of them as belonging to the same alphabet, say cyrillic,
because they esentially use the same "letters"?

That would really be a "smoking gun"!!

The ufological community should make Mr. Hopkins an offer he
could not refuse, document in depth each of these samples, and
ask (challenge) the scientific community for an explanation.

>Just
>look at Luis R. Gonzalez, and all his assumptions about
>Katharina Wilson, which Katharina - a class act, if ever I've
>seen one here - so patiently demolished.

Well, my perception is that she was neither patient nor
demolished my assumptions, but as she refuse to continue (and I
perfectly understand it, she has not any obligation), it stops
there.

For instance, does anybody agree with me that, if Katharina's
watch marked the same time when she began her phone talk with
her husband, and later (2, 3 or 5 minutes, it doesn't matter) at
the luggage reclaim area, it cannot have been just a
teleportation but also a travel back in time? It is not easier
and perfectly acceptable for the ufological minded person to
consider a temporary EM effect which stopped her watch after
returning from the alleged abduction (a sequel from her
abduction, like her alleged invisibility, and the yellowish tan
that enveloped everything) and made it click again after meeting
with her hostess?

>And now Luis jumps - hope once more triumphing over experience
>(though he doesn't seem to have processed his experience) - all
>over the idea that poor Budd Hopkins may have been fooled by
>someone claiming to be an abductee. Ha! says Luis. Didn't those
>same people, the same ones saying Budd was fooled, also say that
>Budd has reasonable checks on whether abductees are credible.
>They're contradicting themselves!!!!!

>Except... haven't we known, in other walks of life, reputable,
>competent people who sometimes make mistakes? Budd, otherwise
>careful, could have made a mistake here. Poor UFO investigators.
>I guess they, alone of all humans, have to be completely,
>utterly infallible.

Did you read what I wrote? I said that I do not trust any
ufologist who do not get at least 50% IFOs. In other words, UFO
testimonies which fooled him for a while, until he explained
them. So, I am the very first to concede that UFO investigators
are fallible, and get fooled (probably, much more than they even
dare to acknowledge). That is one of the reason why I repeatedly
ask Hopkins for some example about his own failures, they will
make him more human. Calibration.


Yours,

Luis R. Gonzalez Manso






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              Re: Harrassment - Has It Happened To You? - Boone

From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 15:05:40 EST
Fwd Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 05:25:42 -0500
Subject: Re: Harrassment - Has It Happened To You? - Boone


>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 06:38:20 -0800
>Subject: Re: Harrassment - Has It Happened To You?

>>From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 11:26:54 EST
>>Subject: Harrassment - Has It Happened To You?

>>Often we read or hear or watch on TV where witnesses to UFO
>>events, investigators and experiencers mention that they got a
>>'visit' either by persons posing as government officials or bona
>>fide government officials. Also stories of shadowy characters
>>who seem to know more than the average bear.

>>Since many of you have been in the fight either as researchers,
>>skeptics, experiencers, has any of you ever been harrassed,
>>warned or threatened?

>>How did you handle it?

>>Is this a real situation or overblown?

>Interesting topic - -thanks for injecting it. I'll offer this
>tidbit: First known mention of the MIB, to the best of my
>knowledge was with "Harold Dahl" in the "Maury Island Incident"
>which of course preceded Roswell. Many thought/think Dahl
>concocted the whole UFO story,as well as the MIB element, but
>what isn't widely known is the MIB, or what a surviving family
>member conveyed to me as, "government men" also "threatened"
>another witness to the event.

>Separately, I have two letters in the file from well-known
>Ufologists active n the 60's that were contacted and grilled
>from an individual (possibly the same man) who said he was from
>the Air Force; just questions, no intimidation with these
>events.

Thank you Frank Warren!

Glad to see someone has some documentation on this subject.

Considering the flood of responses to my post I'ld say the
situation isn't as overwhelming as we would believe yet
something is there and it's quickly focusing on not government
intimidation or threats but 'private' or 'organizational'
intrusions. What's alarming is that these persons are
impersonating both government/military and law enforcement.

Depending on the true volume of cases and the verification of
them it's still a gray area. Would be neat if someone had or
would put together a collection of these events to help us
qualify & quantify them.

What's ironic is one of the companies that optioned one of my
comic book/sci-fi series for film developement is the same
company that brought the 'Men In Black' comic series to the
screen.


Best,

Greg







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              Re: Harrassment - Has It Happened To You? - Boone

From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 15:19:38 EST
Fwd Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 05:27:59 -0500
Subject: Re: Harrassment - Has It Happened To You? - Boone


>From: Geoffrey Richardson <geoff.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 17:27:23 -0000
>Subject: Re: Harrassment - Has It Happened To You?

>>From: Nick Pope <nick.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 21:38:50 -0000
>>Subject: Re: Harrassment - Has It Happened To You?

>>I don't deny that there are some witnesses in the UK who have
>>received visits from military or Ministry of Defence personnel.
>>This doesn't tend to happen now, but did in the past, as part of
>>the investigative process into sightings.

>In the January 2004 edition of UFO Magazine(UK), Stuart Miller
>and Chris Rolfe write about their investigations into the UFO
>events at Burmarsh (Kent-UK) in March 1997.

>They describe how, in February 1999, Chris Rolfe received a tape
>recording of a telephone conversation between him and Jerry
>Anderson about a year previously. They had discussed the
>Burmarsh case.

>Eventually an independent expert concluded that the recording
>had been obtained by using a remote laser directional microphone.
>This is only a brief resume of part of the article but harrassment
>was definitely inferred.


>Geoff Richardson

Thanks Geoff Richardson!

That's quite intriguing to say the least! That type of
technology has been around for awhile and there's no telling who
was behind it. Private and public folks get their hands on the
latest technologies and there's no telling what they use them
for until they get pinched.

It seems to me, this is just imagination at work here, that
government has probably been subcontracting civilian companies
to dig into UFO issues. These civilian contractors aren't held
to the same standards as government reps so if they screw up
their actions can be denied, invalidated or hidden in mile high
paper files.

It wouldn't suprise me one bit to find out government hired some
knuckleheads to do the dirty work and when they goofed up they
hid the actions.

It'll take more data, but I still say this is the area we should
be focusing on. I've been digging around on info regarding
persons sent to mental institutions for reporting, witnessing,
researching, and experiencing UFO incidents. That stuff is hot!
So much to go through I would need an army but I've got lots of
help so far. Now it's to find out why these people were sent
there and if there was a collective effort and on what levels.


Best,

Greg







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                      Re: Review Of Sight Unseen - Pope

From: Nick Pope <nick.nul>
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 20:22:23 -0000
Fwd Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 05:28:57 -0500
Subject: Re: Review Of Sight Unseen - Pope


>From: Joe McGonagle <joe.mcgonagle.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 14:59:46 -0000
>Subject: Re: Review Of Sight Unseen

>>From: Nick Pope <nick.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 00:56:58 -0000
>>Subject: Re: Review Of Sight Unseen

><snip>

>>I acknowledge that this is frustrating for other researchers. A
>>similar debate rages over symbols reported by some abductees.
>>Budd has a large database of such symbols and is often urged to
>>publish the data. But he deliberately withholds this information
>>so that he can use it as a way of cross-checking witness
>>testimony. It would clearly be very interesting if different
>>abductees reported having seen the same symbols, provided Budd
>>could be sure that there had been no collusion. The moment the
>>data are in the public domain, this technique would be invalid.

>I am aware that you are currently taking a particular interest
>in the abduction phenomenon, Nick. Has Budd shared any of his
>symbol database with you, and are you paying specific attention
>to symbols and/or languages involved in abduction reports in the
>course of your current research?

>This is one avenue of abduction research which may produce
>measurable results, IMHO.


Joe,

I've received around a hundred accounts of alien
contact/abduction, but have received perhaps no more than half a
dozen drawings of symbols recalled during these various
experiences. I believe I've passed all of these to Budd, and
he's reported no match with anything in his database. I can't
recall mention of alien language in any of my cases.

I share your view that these are fruitful areas for research,
and when time allows, I intend to return to this. But even if
some apparent matches are reported, we need to be cautious. If
the symbols are in the public domain (e.g. on the abduct.com
website) we cannot be certain that the abductee has not come
across them before. And even if more than one abductee reports
symbols not in the public domain (e.g. ones in Budd's
deliberately withheld database) we cannot be certain that there
has been no collusion, with intent to defraud.

Anyway, perhaps this is an area that the Goldsmiths College
study might probe, in the course of the detailed interviews they
intend to carry out with participants into their scientific
study into the alien abduction phenomenon. I'll raise this with
Professor Chris French or Julia Santomauro.


Best wishes,

Nick Pope







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                        Close Encounter On Highway 7

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 06:43:20 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 06:43:20 -0500
Subject: Close Encounter On Highway 7




Source: The Winnipeg Sun

http://www.canoe.ca/NewsStand/WinnipegSun/News/2004/02/11/343270.html


Wed, February 11, 2004

Close Encounter On Highway 7
Family Of 3 Witnesses UFO

By
Kevin Engstrom
Staff Reporter


John Stewart doesn't believe in aliens but he would like an
explanation for the saucer-like object he saw in the sky last
summer. The Stony Mountain resident, along with his wife and 11-
year-old son, reported seeing the unidentified flying object on
Aug. 23 while driving into Winnipeg.

"It was the freakiest thing I've ever seen in my life," said
Stewart, who works for a local recording company. "It was
absolutely amazing to see and the more I think about it, the
more I wish I could see it again."

Stewart's sighting was one of 25 reported in the province last
year, according to the 2003 Canadian UFO Survey. The survey was
released yesterday by an independent research group led by
Winnipegger Chris Rutkowski.

Stewart said the saucer caught his eye while driving past a
farmer's field on Highway 7 about 6:45 p.m. that day. He
initially assumed it was a small airplane or helicopter,
hovering 30 to 40 metres above the ground, but he realized it
was much more than that after the object flew over the highway
median and turned sideways as it passed cars at speeds of up to
140 km/h.

"Me and my wife looked at each other and said 'What the hell is
that?' " Stewart recalled yesterday. "It wasn't aerodynamic at
all, so it shouldn't have been able to have been flying, let
alone flying while going that fast."

The object was pewter in colour and had a diameter of about
three metres, he said, with black and symmetrical, ball-like
windows along the side. After it flew over Stewart's truck, the
family lost sight of the UFO only 90 seconds after first
spotting it.

"I have no idea what it was," he said. "If I believed in aliens
I'd have thought it was a probe of some sort but I don't know
about that."

DRAWINGS SIMILAR

At Rutkowski's urging, all three family members drew a picture
of what they saw. All three drawings were strikingly similar,
said Stewart.

He said he wouldn't have come forward if he had spotted the
object while alone, saying there is a stigma attached to people
who report such sightings. Even his friends were skeptical when
he told them about it.

"Nobody believed me until my wife said she saw it, too," he
said. "So they now believe we saw something."

Stewart's sighting was one of 115 in Canada last year that have
no apparent explanation, said Rutkowski.

There were 673 sightings reported across the country last year,
an increase of 39% from 2002.

Most UFO sightings can be attributed to natural phenomena or
human activity.

---

SIGHTINGS IN '03

Findings of 2003 Canadian UFO survey:

- Sightings up 39% from 2002 to 673

- There were 25 sightings in Manitoba last year, down from 36 in 2002

- Thirteen of those sightings were in Winnipeg

- About 17% of all sightings were unexplained

- Typical sighting lasted 10 minutes

- Most sightings have two witnesses

-- Ufology Research of Manitoba







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                  Mystery Object Spotted From Space Station

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 06:45:42 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 06:45:42 -0500
Subject: Mystery Object Spotted From Space Station




Source: The Australian - Sydney NSW

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/sectionindex2/0,5746,auscontacts%255E%255ET
EXT,00.html

February 11, 2004

Mystery Object Spotted From Space Station
From AFP


MOSCOW: The Russian-US crew on board the International Space
Station (ISS) have noticed an unidentified object outside the
orbiting craft, US and Russian space officials said on Tuesday.

US astronaut Michael Foale and his Russian colleague Alexander
Kaleri last week observed "a 20cm long strip of soft material"
which was floating in space, a NASA representative in Russia,
Sergei Puzanov, told AFP.

"For the moment. It's not clear what it is. US and Russian
experts are studying photos sent by the crew to Earth to try and
determine its origin," he said, adding that it posed "no danger
to the station or its crew members."

It could be be a piece of the station's insulation or a strip
used to attach some technical equipment to the outside of the
station, according to Russian experts quoted by the Interfax
news agency.

"It is possible that we will never manage to find out what it
was," a spokeman for Russian mission control outside Moscow,
Valery Lyndin, told Interfax.

According to Lyndin, there was a similar incident on the now
scrapped Russian space station Mir.

The cosmonauts saw a "shining object" which they filmed but
experts who studied these images were "unable to establish what
the object was," he added.

AFP







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                    Re: Review Of Sight Unseen - Gonzalez

From: Luis R. Gonzalez <lrgm.nul>
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 21:51:14 +0100
Fwd Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 06:48:25 -0500
Subject: Re: Review Of Sight Unseen - Gonzalez


>From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 16:40:51 +0100
>Subject: Re: Review Of Sight Unseen

>>From: Greg Sandow <greg.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 16:39:43 -0500
>>Subject: Re: Review Of Sight Unseen

>>>From: Nick Pope <nick.nul>
>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 20:10:52 -0000
>>>Subject: Re: Review Of Sight Unseen

><snip>

>>Which, come to think of it, I suppose somebody might think,
>>given that on this list we've just had somebody confidently
>>declare that Budd tells his abductees that they've been
>>abducted. This somebody, of course, has had about as much
>>contact with Budd, his abductees, and his methods as I've had
>>with the Tasmanian royal family (should there be such a thing).
>>Hardcore UFO skeptics, I really must observe, may be more
>>regularly guilty of wishful thinking than any other class of
>>human beings I've ever observed, apart from tiny children.
>>(Well, some credulous UFO believers can be just as bad.) Just
>>look at Luis R. Gonzalez, and all his assumptions about
>>Katharina Wilson, which Katharina - a class act, if ever I've
>>seen one here - so patiently demolished.

>Thank you for all this very interesting information. It confirms
>what I knew already.

>Mr Gonzalez has just made on this List a demonstration of
>wishful thinking and a priori judgement, regarding the story of
>Katharina Wilson, whom we must all thank to have put the record
>straight. Mr Gonzalez is not in a good position to question a
>researcher like Budd Hopkins, to say the least.

Now, at last, I understand the mistake. All of you have been
thinking I was trying to explain away the missing time, and
consequently, all the incident.

Nothing would be farther from my intentions. There is clearly
missing time. Period.

I consider it to be below half an hour, but nevertheless, there
is. Of course, we will never agree about its interpretation, but
must agree to disagree.

What I was really trying was to explain away the alleged
subsequent teleportation from the pay phones to the luggage
reclaim area. Just that, nothing more.

Of course, if as Katharina said, when she talked with her
husband from the airport, she opened the conversation saying she
_was_ at the airport, her husband's answer makes perfect sense.
But from there on, I still maintain my position: no
teleportation there.

>Having finished to read his book, I confirm my opinion that it
>is a very intersting contribution. The last part offers thoughts
>about the question of genetic manipulations, and possibly
>related cattle mutilations.

So, Mr. Hopkins, after years of talking about hybridation
experiments with all those sexual variations (from plain "love
making" to sperm and ova painful extractions), now changes road
and maintain that the quid were instead all those "scoop marks",
collecting tissues to make gene tranfers.


Luis R. Gonz=E1lez Manso






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                 Re: Harrassment - Has It Happened To You? -

From: Bill Stockstill <size14d.nul>
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 16:34:30 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 06:50:43 -0500
Subject: Re: Harrassment - Has It Happened To You? -


>From: Nick Pope <nick.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 21:38:50 -0000
>Subject: Re: Harrassment - Has It Happened To You?

>>From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 11:26:54 EST
>>Subject: Harrassment - Has It Happened To You?


Hi Nick:

It is interesting that you would chime in on this topic. Years
ago I read  "UFO A Deadly Concealment" by Derek Sheffield. I was
so interested in the book I later started up written
correspondence with him on his investigations into the Belgium
triangle UFO sightings of 1989/1990. He wrote of harrassment via
the British Post Office. He states in his book that about 2
dozen pieces of mail, including registered mail, involving his
investigation into the 1989/90 Belgium UFO flap never made it to
their destinations.

He also wrote of several encounters with your where you seemed
to give him incomplete information. When I wrote him of your
book, "Open Skies, Closed Minds", he was shocked. He thought you
were a government debunker. Here are some of the things he
states happened when he contacted you for information of the
British Government's knowledge of the March 30/31, 1990 Belgium
F-16 UFO encounter:

Your department handled radar enquires but you had no figures
concerning them.

You first told him that radar can have spurious returns but
later admitted skilled radar operators can discern them from
real objects.

You told Derek that in 1992 there were 147 UFO reports and when
he asked for information on the sightings was given "a few
sparse details - heavily censored - which revealed no details
that could be checked."

Derek was left with the impression after contacting you that the
he "...was surprised at the standard of investigation that the
Ministry of Defense attributed to these reports; in the main
they consisted of  minimal enquiries that only indicated a token
interest and a juvenile attitude..." And wrote of  "reference by
Mr Pope to a particular book that would have reduced the whole
subject to one of science fiction. But, of course, that could
have been the intention".

Now, 11 years later do you have any information on who was doing
it and why Sheffield's mail was being intercepted? Do you still
stand on your earlier statements that the Belgium Air Force
and/or NATO did not notify the British MoD of a UFO traveling
toward the UK at 1,000 mph and 6 minutes out?


Yours,

Bill Stockstill









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                      Re: The Beveridge UFO - Stanford

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 15:11:52 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 06:58:05 -0500
Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO - Stanford

>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 14:57:16 -0500
>Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO

>>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 13:21:40 -0500
>>Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO

<snip>

>>Don, you simply are not addressing Amy's intention in that
>>presentation. Maybe you're just being snide or else you do not
>>understand the function of paradigm creation or modeling in the
>>scientific process.

>I think it is you who do not, to use your own words, "understand
>modeling in the scientific process," Ray. If you think that the
>club/turd shaped object that Amy is using as her example of a
>'fly' is an accurate reproduction of the body of any known 'fly'
>then I completely understand why you have no faith in half of
>what you see. (perceive)

>If Amy had used the 3D model of the body of a fly and then was
>able to make a convincing look-alike for the Whittlesea object,
>I too would have been convinced that the possibility we are
>seeing a 'fly' was the best possible explanation. But that's not
>the case is it?

>The fact is; Amy had to create a really distorted image/thing,
>(that 'club' shaped object she calls a 'fly') put wings on it
>and move it around nine ways from Sunday just to get it begin to
>resemble the object in the photo. Yet _that_ depiction is what
>you consider to be a fair and accurate 'scientific
>model/rendition of a 'fly'.

>Again, no wonder you don't trust your own perceptions.

Anyone is foolish who takes their perceptions of ambiguous
situations or images (whether in a photo or in the sky) at face
value without due examination, including you, John. Furthermore,
it is ironic that a person like you who becomes a fiery mouthed
monster if you think anyone is putting words into your mouth
figuratively put words into my mouth in saying that I consider
Amy's model an, "...accurate 'scientific model/rendition of a
'fly'..."! I challenge you to provide a quote from any of my
previous posts saying that Amy had accurately depicted a fly! I
clearly said it was a generalized modeling of a situation which
involved both form and dynamics. Shame of you for trying to put
words in my mouth, John.

>>Forget it, Don. The bug, object, or whatever, is not in focus,
>>as Bruce Maccabee has mentioned. It is not image smear, alone,
>>that makes that image indistinct, as Bruce clearly carefully
>>explained. So, bug or omnibus alien vehicle, the thing is not in
>>focus, and that puts some very serious constraints on the
>>distance that thing could have been from the camera, favoring
>>the bug hypothesis, as Bruce Maccabee has commented and
>>carefully explained.

>What a 'spin-doctor' you are, Ray! It's really quite remarkable.
>One of the many comments that Bruce Maccabee made was;

I suggest you keep out of that and let Bruce tell me if I am
wrong concerning the hypothesis he was favoring on this.

Hey, Bruce, would you please telling us, again, what hypothesis
seems most commensurate with the facts of that photo. :) I paid
attention to your words, but it seems John must have been
distracted, perhaps by his own beliefs about it.

<snip>

>Without those distance measurements there is no way to tell what
>it is we're looking at. Why arrive at _any_ conclusions so early
>in the proceedings? Especially if you consider that we are not
>yet in possession of all the facts. What kind of "science" are
>you practicing, Ray?

I practice a lot more science than you seem even capable of
understanding, John. Your complaint that, "Especially if you
consider that we are not yet in possession of all the facts."
proves that. Science is a process of gaining knowledge by
examination of the know, then construction (on that basis) of a
testable hypothesis predicting specific things or results
unknown beforehand, and then testing of that hypothesis by both
the one proposing the hypothesis and by peers.

>Science 'by proclamation'? as Stan Friedman is fond of saying.

There you go de facto having Stan Friedman comment on my
statements without even consulting him! Shame on you again,
John. Let Stan comment, if he wishes.

Tell me, John. How many mainstream, peer-reviewed, scientific
papers have you ever delivered on any subject at any mainstream
scientific conferences on any subject? :) Well, as early as
1998, I delivered three peer-reviewed papers on Early Cretaceous
ichnites to the Philadelphia Academy of Sciences' international
dinosaur symposium, with a tremendously enthusiastic audience
response (the audiences were about 90% professional scientists),
even causing one of the world's best known paleontologists
(Robert T. Bakker, Ph.D.) to spontaneously jump up,following two
of my talks) and declare to the audience that my personal
findings (he had examined them first-hand) constitute the most
impressive and scientifically important assemblage of dinosaur
fossils ever assembled by any individual in the entire history
of paleontology. One of the scientific world's most highly
regarded and referenced dinosaur paleontologists told an equally
world-class dinosaur paleontologists that my contributions to
the science of east coast (USA) paleontology exceed those of all
other paleontologists who have ever worked in the east coast,
combined.

Scheduled for publication this month in a premier international
scientific journal, is my paper, A NEW DINOSAUR ICHNOTAXON FROM
THE LOWER CRETACEOUS PATUXENT FORMATION OF MARYLAND AND
VIRGINIA, describing and naming my discoveries of the world's
first indisputably hypsilophodontid dinosaur tracks (front and
back footprints). I am first author, the second author being Dr.
Robert E. Weems (U.S. Geological Survey, Reston, Virginia), and
the third author being none less than the world's most prominent
expert of dinosaur (and other ancient) tracks, Dr. Martin G.
Lockley, Department of Geology, the University of Colorado,
Denver.

Do you really think those professional and internationally
referenced scientists take me to be the pseudoscientific smuck
you are clearly trying to make me out to me? And, yes, John,
they know of my earlier psychic work and my work in Ufology,
too, and both have read several of my writings on both subjects.
I would never ask scientists to co-author papers with me unless
they are informed that I have been involved in controvesial
subjects.

It is universally accepted by every paleontologist and
paleoichnologist who has examined my vast collection of self-
found tracks and trackways during the last two years, that I am
the pioneer discoverer of Maryland's Cretaceous dinosaur,
mammal, pterosaur, and other tracks when they were totally
unknown before my discoveries, and that I have at least fifteen
different varieties of dinosaur tracks catalogued.

I am the finder of the only articulated dinosaur ever found in
Maryland, and it is the world's first-found hatchling nodosaur
(declared diagnostic by 28 professionals). One of the world's
most highly respected dinosaur paleontologists with a major
eastern university and I are preparing a paper describing and
naming it as a new species for a world-class scientific
publication.

My aforementioned co-author (on more papers than mentioned) Dr.
Martin G. Lockley and I are preparing a paper on my find of the
most high-quality, lar gest, and most scientifically significant
mammal track known, worldwide, out of the entire Mesozoic. If
you don't understand why such a track is scientifically
'earthshaking', then you aren't familiar with mesozoic
paleoichnology; but don't feel like the Lone Ranger, if so,
because most persons aren't. If that paper isn't accepted by the
best of the best, then we both will be surprised.

Tell me, John, don't you think that a discoverer with that kind
of track record (pun intended) deserves better credit at
observation and objective pattern discernment than you have been
willing to grant me? If you don't acknowledge that my success in
that field (both as to the ability to find and identify tracks
and to analyze and write scientifically) then you are dreaming
in a fantasy world of self delusion.

I early-on said, on this List, that at first glance I thought
that I might be looking at a domed disc in the Beveridge image
(I even sent the link to my three adult children and asked them
to consider that it might be a domed disc in that photo.) but
that after contemplating the image in a more objective frame of
mind I realized it probably shows a unfocused, speeding, and
slightly turning (out of the photo plane) 'bug'.

Yes, John, I admitted to this List that I was wrong in that
first interpretation of what made that image, but never once on
this list have I ever noticed you admit that you were wrong on
even the smallest of matters dealing with anything!

Hey, haven't you noticed, John, that more and more of the real
thinkers on this List are coming across to the 'it looks most
like a bug' side? :) Doesn't that kind of 'bug' you? :)

>>>Finally, whatever one makes of this photo, both its
>>>circumstance (unseen) and the lack of unambiguous image content
>>>make it next to useless, or probably utterly useless, in
>>>elucidating the 'UFO mystery' in its classical sense.

>Twaddle! Says you. Don makes an excellent point when he draws
>our attention to the size of the disturbance in the atmosphere
>surrounding the 'object.'

Your comments again demonstrate your lack of knowledge of and
lack of objectivity concerning the nature of perception. You
were declaring the importance of this photo as one of a domed
UFO in your early post concerning it. But, the photo is
utterly useless in diagnosing the nature of the classic UFO
problem, because it is of very poor image quality and there was
no witness. All it demonstrates is human gullibility. Try
presenting that photo (in the absence of witness testimony) to
any scientific jury and you would be laughed out of house,
justifiably.

You say that Don Leger, "...makes an excellent point when he
draws our attention to the size of the disturbance in the
atmosphere surrounding the object." !

How about you or Don (if he really said that) telling us just
precisely what evidence you have that there was any 'disturbance
in the atmosphere' surrounding the thing photographed, since you
seem to be implying something is there other than mere unfocused
image and motion smear and effects attendant to electronic
imaging.

I see no evidence of any exotic effects in the atmosphere around
that thing, and that the noise you imagine to be such has not
the slightest resemblance to such bona-fide magnetohydrodynamic
plasma (plasma-in-magnetically-induced-motion) phenomena as my
project has filmed propelling truly anomalous sky objects of
diverse shapes and of a tremendous range of sizes. (We have
simultaneous ELF magnetometric recordings and spectra that
confirm the presence of a very strong magnetic field in some of
those cases.)

In short, I know what such effects look like from diverse
daylight UFO filmings and what we see in the Beveridge image has
no resemblance to any of them, and all such effects we have
filmed have distinctive commonalties.

>We still don't know what it is we're
>looking at in spite of the all-fired rush that some of us are
>apparently in to arrive at a conclusion and to put this case on
>a shelf. Again I ask... What's the rush?

>All the facts aren't in yet, Ray.

In science all the facts are never in. But with this unimportant
photo showing nothing more than what resembles a passing 'bug',
only the dreamers are panting for more.

For those interested, I will be addressing (my paper has already
been approved by the professionals involved) a session called
Dinosaurs of the Eastern United States, at the Geological
Society of America annual meeting in Tyson's Corner, Virginia,
next month. If anyone really wants to attend, please query me
for details.

Ray Stanford

"You know my method. It is founded upon the observance of
trifles." -- Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery








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                        Re: The Beveridge UFO - Velez

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 16:42:17 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 07:04:29 -0500
Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO - Velez


>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 12:51:46 -0500
>Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO

>>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 14:57:16 -0500
>>Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO

>>>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 13:21:40 -0500
>>>Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO

>>>Don, you simply are not addressing Amy's intention in that
>>>presentation. Maybe you're just being snide or else you do not
>>>understand the function of paradigm creation or modeling in the
>>>scientific process.

>>I think it is you who do not, to use your own words, "understand
>>modeling in the scientific process," Ray. If you think that the
>>club/turd shaped object that Amy is using as her example of a
>>'fly' is an accurate reproduction of the body of any known 'fly'
>>then I completely understand why you have no faith in half of
>>what you see. (perceive)

>>If Amy had used the 3D model of the body of a fly and then was
>>able to make a convincing look-alike for the Whittlesea object,
>>I too would have been convinced that the possibility we are
>>seeing a 'fly' was the best possible explanation. But that's not
>>the case is it?

>>The fact is; Amy had to create a really distorted image/thing,
>>(that 'club' shaped object she calls a 'fly') put wings on it
>>and move it around nine ways from Sunday just to get it begin to
>>resemble the object in the photo. Yet _that_ depiction is what
>>you consider to be a fair and accurate 'scientific
>>model/rendition of a 'fly'.

>>Again, no wonder you don't trust your own perceptions.

Hello All,

Ray Stanford wrote:

>Anyone is foolish who takes their perceptions of ambiguous
>situations or images (whether in a photo or in the sky) at face
>value without due examination, including you, John.

I have written out carefully how and what I have examined in the
Whittlesea photo on-List and privately to a few individuals. Why
do you assume the worst of me in terms of 'taking my perceptions
at face value without examination?'

>Furthermore,
>it is ironic that a person likie you who becomes a fiery mouthed
>monster if you think anyone is putting words into your mouth
>figuratively put words into my mouth in saying that I consider
>Amy's model an, "...accurate 'scientific model/rendition of a
>'fly'..."! I challenge you to provide a quote from any of my
>previpous posts saying that Amy had accurately depicted a fly! I
>clearly said it was a generalized modelling of a situation which
>involved both form and dynamics. Shame of you for trying to put
>words in my mouth, John.

You (again, condescendingly) said to Don Ledger, "Maybe you're
just being snide or else you do not understand the function of
paradigm creation or modeling in the scientific process."

Does that not state that you think Amy's 'model' was one you
consider to be useful "scientifically." And that Don somehow
misses the lesson in favor of being "snide" about it. I don't
know, Ray. How many ways are there to interpret your 'not so
veiled' insults?

>Oh, and by the way, you like to tell us you had two years in
>classes relevant to this discussion of camera image matters, but
>curiously you do not tell your grade in those courses or whether
>you even passed or really even finished them.

By the time this is published to the List you (and EBK acting as
witness) will be in possession of a copy of my certification in
computer graphic art signed and dated by the Dean of the
department and affixed with the seal of Long Island University.

You can also contact Mr. Irwin Finkelstien, President of 'Jalor
Color Labs' (250 Hudson St. N.Y., N.Y.) and he will confirm my
almost twenty-five years of hands-on work experience as a
journeyman lithographer and graphic artist. I also studied film
and photographic techniques with experts from the Kodak company.
There are courses in various aspects of image creation and
reproduction that are too numerous to mention here that I took
at the Association of Graphic Artists headquarters here in NYC.

Now that you have insinuated that I have been less than honest
about my credentials as a graphic professional, I demand that
you produce copies of your own credentials.

What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

Now it's your turn. How do we know that your credentials are
real? Produce them.

>I'm beginning to
>think you were stretching things since you declared as though
>speaking 'excathedra' that the whazzit in the Mars photo was
>pixel dropout when a host of gray-scale gradients were visible.
>I even suspect that you secretly now know that you were wrong on
>that, too.

It _is_ pixel drop-out. What do you think it is, Ray. ET? Maybe
it's an enormous club-shaped Martian fly, eh?

>>What a 'spin-doctor' you are, Ray! It's really quite remarkable.
>>One of the many comments that Bruce Maccabee made was;

>I suggest you keep out of that and let Bruce tell me if I am
>wrong concerning the hypothesis he was favoring on this.

And Bruce Maccabee gave several possibilities, including speed
estimates if the object was large and farther away from the
camera. He may 'favor' the insect hypothesis but he doesn't
carve anything in stone in regard to what the object could/might
be. The only one attempting to arrive at premature conclusions
is you, Ray. And one or two others who have a personal agenda or
who think they know more/better than the rest of us.

>>Without those distance measurements there is no way to tell what
>>it is we're looking at. Why arrive at _any_ conclusions so early
>>in the proceedings? Especially if you consider that we are not
>>yet in possession of all the facts. What kind of "science" are
>>you practicing, Ray?

>I practive lot more science than you seem even capable of
>understanding, John.

Wow! You certainly are full of yourself aren't you? This
conversation has just come to a screeching halt. I do not have
to take this kind of insult. You're not really interested in
discussing anything. You're way too enthralled with the sound of
your own voice to ever hear anything I might have to say.

I demand a public apology for the way you have spoken to me,
and as for _your_ 'alleged' credentials, I await copies.


John Velez








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              Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Bright

From: Dan Bright <ufo.nul>
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 22:02:24 -0000
Fwd Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 07:05:18 -0500
Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Bright


>From: Martin Shough <mshough.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 21:13:10 -0000
>Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph


>The wings on the other hand are stopped with very little
>vertical oscillation during the exposure. You can see this
>clearly on the wing which is pointed more or less straight at
>the camera and makes a thin bright highlight.
>This suggests that the wing is beating slowly relative to the
>lateral bulk motion of the object, which in turn suggests (to
>me) the aerodynamic lift of a bird rather than a bug.

Hello Martin et al,

Beetle wings move between 46 and 90 beats per second. On
average, beetles are able to travel at 5km per hour
(3.106856mph, 1,388.89mm/sec, 54.68 inches/sec).

The exposure time here was 1/250. Therefore, our "average"
beetle could have travelled 0.22 inches (around quarter of an
inch) over the period of the 1/250 exposure.

The "Christmas beetle" (Anoplognathus sp., subfamily Rutelinae),
which Diane indicated was common to the area at the time of the
photograph, has an average body length of 25mm (0.98 inches).

Going by these figures, if flying flat-out at 54.68inch/sec, a
Christmas beetle could have travelled around one quarter of its
length during a 1/250 exposure.

By contrast, a horsefly can be up to 30mm long (1.2 inch), can
beat its wings up to 100 times per second, and has a top speed
of 22km/h (240.59 inches per second). That's 0.96 inches of
movement in a 1/250 exposure, or 80% of body length.

It's also worth considering that blurring (especially at both
the left or right extremities) could appear not only due to
forward motion but also lateral deviation from a linear forward
trajectory, involving changes of heading, altitude and attitude.


Best,

--
Dan Bright
www.theunexplained.info








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              Re: Harrassment - Has It Happened To You? - Pope

From: Nick Pope <nick.nul>
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 22:07:38 -0000
Fwd Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 07:18:51 -0500
Subject: Re: Harrassment - Has It Happened To You? - Pope


>From: Geoffrey Richardson <geoff.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 17:27:23 -0000
>Subject: Re: Harrassment - Has It Happened To You?

>>From: Nick Pope <nick.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 21:38:50 -0000
>>Subject: Re: Harrassment - Has It Happened To You?

>>I don't deny that there are some witnesses in the UK who have
>>received visits from military or Ministry of Defence personnel.
>>This doesn't tend to happen now, but did in the past, as part of
>>the investigative process into sightings.

>In the January 2004 edition of UFO Magazine(UK), Stuart Miller
>and Chris Rolfe write about their investigations into the UFO
>events at Burmarsh (Kent-UK) in March 1997.

>They describe how, in February 1999, Chris Rolfe received a tape
>recording of a telephone conversation between him and Jerry
>Anderson about a year previously. They had discussed the
>Burmarsh case.

>Eventually an independent expert concluded that the recording
>had been obtained by using a remote laser directional microphone.
>This is only a brief resume of part of the article but harrassment
>was definitely inferred.

Geoff,

Somebody was certainly interfering in the investigation, but
there's no evidence to suggest it was anything do to with
officialdom. Quite the opposite, in fact. As you will be aware,
Chris Rolfe received a letter telling him he was no longer
permitted to investigate the UFO sighting in question. The
letter appeared to be an official one, but was in fact a hoax.
Somebody else was trying to make Chris and Jerry think that the
RAF were taking an interest in their investigation.

The BT investigator who Jerry contacted found no evidence to
suggest that anyone had interfered with his telephone or the
telephone line. I don't know the background or expertise of the
"independent investigator" who Jerry called in, so can't comment
on his conclusions. However, media stories that have appeared in
recent years demonstrate clearly that the technology to record
other people's telephone calls is more widely available than
many people suppose. And such technology is certainly not
exclusively in the hands of official bodies.

Somebody was certainly making a nuisance of themselves and
complicating Chris and Jerry's investigation. However, I suspect
these actions were the work of somebody with a ufological agenda
of their own, and not of any government agency.


Best wishes,

Nick Pope








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               Re: Stupidity In The New Age Of Anti-Science -

From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 16:12:54 -0600
Fwd Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 07:20:39 -0500
Subject: Re: Stupidity In The New Age Of Anti-Science -


>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 05:48:54 -0800
>Subject: Stupidity In The New Age Of Anti-Science

>Source: The Scotsman
>http://news.scotsman.com/opinion.cfm?id=160812004
>10 February 2004

>Stupidity in the new age of anti-science
>Gillian Bowditich

>SOME 3.7 million people claim to have been abducted by aliens.
>Only 11 per cent of Americans believe in evolution. Type "Flat
>Earth Society" into the Google search engine on the internet and
>you will have a choice of 466,000 sites. How did we get this
>stupid?

We started getting stupider when we hauled out the broadest
brush we could find and then started painting with it. Could we
have a breakdown as to what percentage of abductees believe in
evolution? Or how many "Flat Earthers" claim to have been
abducted?

You know, I've never read an article like this mention that a
majority - a BIG majority - of real, live, rational scientists
believe in God. This fact is not offered as any kind of
refutation of the suggestion that people are getting stupider. I
personally don't believe in God, but I don't claim that to prove
I'm more intelligent than someone who does. I'm only suggesting
that rationality and intelligence are only tangentially linked,
and that some of the world's greatest minds believe and have
believed some of the most irrational, stupid things.

Why? Because reality is complex and subtle, and remains mostly
unexplored and unexplained. Because we're creatures of our time,
and can only work and think within existing frameworks. And
because the smartest people on the planet are those who
understand how little they really know.









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                 Re: Harrassment - Has It Happened To You? -

From: Geoffrey Richardson <geoff.nul>
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 22:16:14 -0000
Fwd Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 07:22:02 -0500
Subject: Re: Harrassment - Has It Happened To You? -


>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 06:38:20 -0800
>Subject: Re: Harrassment - Has It Happened To You?

>>From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 11:26:54 EST
>>Subject: Harrassment - Has It Happened To You?

>> Frank Warren wrote:

>>Interesting topic - thanks for injecting it. I'll offer this
>tidbit: First known mention of the MIB, to the best of my
>knowledge was with "Harold Dahl" in the "Maury Island Incident"
>which of course preceded Roswell.

Believe it or not, what could be described as a MIB incident was
reported by "The Yorkshire Post" (UK) in 1909 - two workmen were
asked if they had seen an airship by two men who alighted from a
large car.

See "Men in Black" at The WHY? Files

http://www.thewhyfiles.co.uk

Geoff Richardson









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              Re: Harrassment - Has It Happened To You? - Pope

From: Nick Pope <nick.nul>
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 22:44:04 -0000
Fwd Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 07:23:32 -0500
Subject: Re: Harrassment - Has It Happened To You? - Pope


>From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 23:47:42 EST
>Subject: Re: Harrassment - Has It Happened To You?

>>From: Nick Pope <nick.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 21:38:50 -0000
>>Subject: Re: Harrassment - Has It Happened To You?

>>>From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 11:26:54 EST
>>>Subject: Harrassment - Has It Happened To You?

>>I'll give you a slightly different perspective on this, in that
>>I've worked on the UK Ministry of Defence's UFO project, and
>>have had it put to me that my predecessors and I have engaged in
>>such activities.

>>I don't deny that there are some witnesses in the UK who have
>>received visits from military or Ministry of Defence personnel.
>>This doesn't tend to happen now, but did in the past, as part of
>>the investigative process into sightings.

>>I wouldn't rule out the possibility that some witnesses were
>>asked not to talk about their sightings, but I don't think this
>>is necessarily as sinister as it sounds. Particularly in the
>>Fifties and Sixties, I suspect this was a natural consequence of
>>the Cold War mentality and the prevailing culture of secrecy. A
>>firm request not to discuss matters may have been misconstrued
>>as a threat, especially in the case of members of the public who
>>had not had previous dealings with the military.

>>There's another issue to factor in. There have been numerous
>>incidents involving bogus paramedics and ambulance staff, social
>>workers, priests, military personnel, etc. In some cases the
>>deception has been carried out for monetary or sexual reasons.
>>But in other cases, we seem to be dealing with a form of mental
>>disorder. I hesitate to use the phrase 'Walter Mitty', but
>>believe it may be appropriate in this instance. If some people
>>derive gratification from pretending to be paramedics, is it not
>>understandable that others may enjoy pretending to be with a
>>government agency whose job it is to suppress information about
>>UFOs? Films like Men in Black probably don't help here.

>>And I wouldn't entirely rule out the possibility that some
>>people might go to see a witness they'd heard about in the
>>media, pretending to be from a government agency, in order to
>>extract information.

>>I realise that my comments are unlikely to be appreciated by
>>all, but would like to assure List members that I have not been
>>involved in harassing UFO witnesses, and am unaware of any
>>instances where my predecessors or successors have done so.

>Thank you Nick Pope for clearing that up.

>It's very enlightening to get data from the source!

>What you've presented brings alot to the table.

>If your government didn't engage in harrassment or threats against
>UFO witnesses/whistleblowers/researchers etc. Then who did if any?

<snip>

Elaborating on my previous post, I think that four likely
possibilities are as follows:

Some witnesses were visited by government or military personnel
carrying out perfectly legitimate Blue Book or UK Ministry of
Defence investigations into UFO sightings. Witnesses may have
been asked not to discuss their sightings with anyone else. This
might reflect a Cold War mentality. Alternatively, the
investigators may have been trying to avoid information getting
into the public domain, so that future witness testimony would
not have been contaminated by people being unduly influenced by
something they'd seen in the media. A polite but firm request
along these lines may then have been misinterpreted as something
more sinister.

Some witnesses may have been visited by unscrupulous journalists
or ufologists, trying to elicit details of UFO sightings by
posing as government officials. Such individuals might then tell
witnesses not to discuss the matter with anyone else, firstly to
cover their tracks, and secondly to maximise the chances of a
journalistic or ufological scoop.

Some witnesses may have been visited and threatened by 'Walter
Mitty' characters posing as government employees. There are
plenty of well-documented cases of bogus officials.

Finally, some claims of visits and threats are likely to be
false.


Best wishes,

Nick Pope









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                     Re: Services/UFO/Space? - Stanford

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 20:09:23 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 07:28:54 -0500
Subject: Re: Services/UFO/Space? - Stanford


>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2004 23:19:47 -0800
>Subject: Services/UFO/Space?

>Did anyone else get the message below?

>It sounds like somebody is casting a very wide net here, and I'm
>wondering what its all about. Would such a grand undertaking
>start out from a hotmail account?

<snip>

Hi Larry,

Well I didn't get such a message, but someone who requests such
information or help and wants to remain basically anonymous
(giving only a 'first' name) IMO doesn't deserve the sweat off
anyone's back.

Ray Stanford

"You know my method.  It is founded upon the observance of
trifles." -- Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery








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                       Re: The Beveridge UFO - Ledger

From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 01:22:02 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 07:33:45 -0500
Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO - Ledger


>From: Amy Hebert <vanguard.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 10:33:38 >-0600
>Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO

<snip>

>Well, let's just keep beating this poor dead horse some more. Nothing
>better to do with my time... not!

>What you are calling the "gaseous appearing envelope" surrounding the
>object appears to be due to the Gibb's effect - as pointed out by
>Steve Sensi back in the begining of this discussion about the
>Whittlesea UFO photo (as well as possible blurring due to the motion
>of the object), See:

>http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2004/jan/m25-016.shtml

>I have observed this effect in almost every photograph (most often in
>digital photographs) and video still I have in the old IFO Database
>as well as in the new IFO Database not to mention the hundreds of
>images I've studied but did not include in these databases.

>Don, how do you plan to separate the UFO's "aura" or "envelope" from
>the distortion caused by the Gibbs effect in order to analyze the
>potential power source of this object? How will you know you are
>_not_ analyzing the distortion rather than the "power source",
>exhaust, gaseous envelope, etc.?

>This image is, afterall, a jpg.

>I have placed a few images from the old and new IFO Database on a web
>page for your review. I increased the contrast so the Gibbs effect
>would be more visible. The first 4 images are of IFO's. See if you
>can identify them then tell me which ones might have a "gaseous
>envelope" or exhaust that might be analyzed to determine it's 'power
>source' and how you plan to separate the distortion from the original
>pixels in a jpg.

>See:

>http://a-realitycheck.com/whittleseaufo/atmosphere.htm

>I will be posting more IFO information related to the Whittlesea UFO
>in the near future.

>To learn more about the Gibbs effect and other photographic artifact
>common in digital photography go to:

>http://www.michaeldvd.com.au/Articles/VideoArtefacts/VideoArtefactsGi-
>bbsEffect.html

>http://www.adamwilt.com/pix-artifacts.html

>A. Hebert

>PS - Sorry for the sloppy job I did on this web page. I only had just
>enough time to throw it together.


Hi Amy,

No problem with the quick job. And thanks. But what's the rush? This is
what we are here for, right? Cripes I've seen weeks of nonsense on this
Lists about some of the most innocuous subjects. I often wonder where
Errol finds the patience. My apologies here now.

No Steve and Amy I don't see that same degree of Gibb's effect
in other parts of the photo or mosquitoing-or ringing if you
will as is surrounding the "object" and I'm betting no one else
does either.

Many have been rushing in to show off their expertise re JPEG,
MPEG and their vast experience of dealing with it. and is
probably a satisfying way in which to stroke egos, but it
doesn't do much for the study of the image does it? I want to
see more and proof to boot. If this is an IFO, prove it. Don't
just throw words around.

Amy, you seem to be a bit miffed with my curiosity [and Paul R.
Hill's] about the surrounding envelope. Since all aircraft abide
and endure it during flight I believe it a subject worthy of
exploration. If not with this photo ten perhaps the next.

Amy, if you and others are tired of this argument - I have a
mental picture of many bored readers-aloof and using their horse
tails, on-a-stick, to scare the flies off cow patties - then
don't waste your time on it.

I never said, BTW, that we could determine the power source, but
there is a real science in aerodynamics dealing with drag
coefficients and the effect of the boundary layer on the
aircraft's performance and speed.

There must be dozens of these types of photos around and I'd be
real surprised to find MPEG compression problems on some of the
older silver halide negatives.

Lastly, have a close look at your own pics Amy. You had to push
the contrast to make the effect appear [which doesn't look
anything like the object blurring incidentally] where in the
Beveridge photo the blurring is in sharp contrast to the rez in
the rest of the picture.

Why do you suppose that dumb little Kodak picked only your "bug"
to display the Gibbs effect. Ah,ah- motion doesn't count. The
shutter speed stopped that. Just like it froze the left-side
light signal blinking back and forth. No Gibbs effect there.

Dan Bright's contrast and color enhancements seems to bring out
some detail and even suggests a wing, but it looks much to small
a surface area to sustain lift. A bee's wing area to body weight
ratio is bad enough but even its wings are larger proportionally
than what I see in the color enhancements.


Ain't this fun?

Don Ledger










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   Feb > Feb 11

                       Re: The Beveridge UFO - Ledger

From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 01:46:36 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 07:35:55 -0500
Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO - Ledger


>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 12:51:46 -0500
>Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO

>>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 14:57:16 -0500
>>Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO

>>>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 13:21:40 -0500
>>>Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO


Jeez, you two... pistols at dawn?

Tone it down a bit. It's only a damn UFO/BUG shot.

And there's no need to fight over me.


Don









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               30 Years On - Is This Our Greatest UFO Mystery?

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 07:39:41 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 07:39:41 -0500
Subject: 30 Years On - Is This Our Greatest UFO Mystery?




Source: 105.7 ABC _FM Darwin Australia

http://www.abc.net.au/darwin/stories/s1041972.htm

10 February  2004


More Than 30 Years On - Is This Our Greatest UFO Mystery?

Presenter: Cherie Beach

Researcher: Fiona Churchman

It was one of those ads you couldn't help noticing as you curled
up on the couch and read Darwin's Saturday paper.

It read - In 1972, I saw a UFO at 5am over Darwin airport with 3
other gentlemen. After 31 years I would like to make contact
again with the other witnesses. Two were security guards from
Darwin airport, the other was 'Fred' whose father was the
caretaker at the Darwin German Club. Please contact me...

What UFO? And was this a windup - or was the person who placed
the ad serious?

That person is Rodney Jarvis who is writing a book about his
strange experiences in Northern Australia and wants to include
the story of the night he saw a UFO.

He realises the chances of contacting the other witnesses are
slim.

"After more than 30 years, ever since I witnessed this UFO I
guess every single week I've thought about it and I just thought
well I'll give it a shot, perhaps out of the three other
witnesses, one of them or someone who knows one of them might
like to contact me just so we can compare our recollections of
what actually happened," he said.

Rodney says he was at Darwin airport on that fateful night,
sleeping in the car because he was waiting to catch an early
flight and at 4.45 in the morning he woke up and looked out the
window.

"I saw a very large orange light moving very slowly just above
the tops of the houses that I could see in silhouette and as I
was watching it the first thing I thought of was a helicopter.

"As it moved across to the left it immediately stopped and
reversed back in the opposite direction and I thought well, a
helicopter can't manouvre that quickly," he says.

That's when Rodney decided to wake his mate Fred, to show him
what was happening.

"He was not sure what it was, we both got out of the car and he
was absolutely terrified of it right from the start and as we
watched it it continued to zigzag towards us," says Rodney.

"As it came over us it was climbing in altitude and as it passed
over the top of us I put my hand in through the open window and
flashed the car lights once, and it stopped, immediately above
us."

Rodney says he felt then that this was a chance not in a
lifetime but in two or three hundred lifetimes to see something
like this and he wanted desperately whoever or whatever it was.

"Fred had the opposite reaction, when it stopped, he ran in
panic and hid underneath the eaves of a building and he was
screaming out get out of there you maniac, you don't know what
that is get away.

"And I was thinking I just want to contact this craft or UFO or
whatever it was".

AFter about 15 minutes, Rodney says two airport security guards
came over to find out why they were flashing car lights at five
in the morning, and he says they witnessed the UFO heading
straight into the air and over the horizon.

Rodney is sticking to his story and is determined to find those
who can back him up.

Can you help? Does this sound familiar? Let us know through the guestbook

Hear the story of the night the UFO hovered over Darwin
( Audio in RealMedia format ) -  Requires RealPlayer







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                      Re: The Beveridge UFO - Maccabee

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 01:32:17 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 07:44:49 -0500
Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO - Maccabee


>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 12:51:46 -0500
>Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO

>>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 14:57:16 -0500
>>Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO

<snip>

>>>Forget it, Don. The bug, object, or whatever, is not in focus,
>>>as Bruce Maccabee has mentioned. It is not image smear, alone,
>>>that makes that image indistinct, as Bruce clearly carefully
>>>explained. So, bug or omnibus alien vehicle, the thing is not in
>>>focus, and that puts some very serious constraints on the
>>>distance that thing could have been from the camera, favoring
>>>the bug hypothesis, as Bruce Maccabee has commented and
>>>carefully explained.

>>What a 'spin-doctor' you are, Ray! It's really quite remarkable.
>>One of the many comments that Bruce Maccabee made was;

>I suggest you keep out of that and let Bruce tell me if I am
>wrong concerning the hypothesis he was favoring on this.

>Hey, Bruce, would you please telling us, again, what hypothesis
>seems most commensurate with the facts of that photo. :) I paid
>attention to your words, but it seems John must have been
>distracted, perhaps by his own beliefs about it.

I hate to get into the middle of a "who said/did what to whom"
or "who is the idiot" type of argument, but since my discussion
of this UO photo (Unknown Object) is evidently "bugging " people
I guess I will take the opportunity to expound:

Note: I take no responsibility for baldness resulting from
pulling your hair out in frustration after reading the discourse
below!!!

If you pick any area of the sky in the photo and blow it up you
see "structure". Is this a real effect of the sky? No ,its a
combination of (linear) electronic noise in the CCD sensor and
digitization noise. This is one type of problem with
interpreting the picture. Some of the "atmospheric effect"
around the object may be just a result of (linear) electronic
and digitization noise.

The whole image has "soft" edges... suggesting poor focus. The
left edge seems to be the most blurred, but the right is also
considerably blurred.

The bottom and the top of the main (darker) body where it joins
the white "dome" seem to be the least blurred. The different
amounts of blurring COULD be attributed to left-right motion
combined with slight defocus. The overall lighting is consistent
with a "solid" object that is illuminated from above left in the
photo (bottom surface dark, top surface bright).

Thus we might suggest an object moving to the left or right
which is also slightly out of focus. This would probably suggest
something close to the camera (to be out of focus), say a couple
of feet away. It is true that the right edge seems a little less
blurred than the left side, but this could be a result in the
difference in lighting and/or a difference in reflectivity.

Another possibility for overall image blur... that is, fuzziness
all around, which doesn't require defocus is that an object
moved toward or away from the camera, i.e., changed its radial
distance. This sort of motion causes an image to shrink (moving
away) or grow (moving toward) during the shutter time but the
resulting edge blur is NOT symmetric around the whole object.
Edges bounding wider portions will be smeared more than edges
bounding narrow portions. Suppose an object was a rectangle of
length L and width W. IF the rectangular object increased its
distance from the camera by 5% then the width dimension of the
image would decrease by 5% and the length dimension of the image
would also decreased by 5%. If the Length and width are not
equal, then the absolute amounts of edge blur will be different.
It is the absolute edge shift in position that causes the
blurred edge, so if L (horizontal dimension)> W (vertical
dimension) then the blur of the edges perpendicular to L, i.e.,
the vertical (left and right) edges, will be blurred more than
the horizontal edges (top and bottom). Thus, to get an image
which is blurred all around but is more blurred at the left and
right sides than at the top and bottom without assuming lateral
motion one needs only to assume that the object is wider (left
right) than it is high and also assume a motion either toward or
away from the lens,

In the present photo, the least fuzzy horizontal boundary (edge)
seems to be where the "white dome" meets the darker bottom.
Measuring downward (on a blowup) from the body-dome junction to
the bottom of the dark area I get a distance which seems to be
about 1/3 of the maximum left-right width I could imagine for
the object. In other words, if any radial motion occurred I
would expect the blur of the (nearly) vertical edges (left and
right) to be about 3 times greater than the blur of the
horizontal edges (bottom and dome-body junction). But it doesn't
look that way. It looks as is the left-right edges are blurred
more than 3 times the amount of the horizontal edges. If this is
so, one can imagine adding lateral motion to the toward-or-away
(radial) motion to create a resulting smear that has more left-
right smear than expected from radial motion alone.

[Sound of loud snore!]

I know, You're falling asleep. You want to know what this has to
do with about bugs and birds.
See below.

To "concretize" this discussion assume a saucer at 3000 ft.
Assume, as I did in my previous message, that the angular size
of the UO (unknown object) image is 1 ft / 50 ft = 1/50 of a
radian. That makes the saucer (1/50)3000 = 60 ft wide. With the
apparent width to height (excluding the dome) ratio of 3:1, that
makes it 20 ft thick (excluding the dome where the
extraterrestronauts were standing and watching their picture
being taken). Clearly this is the Zeta Reticulan model without
the optional Bird of Prey Klingon Cloaking Device.

Assume a 5% change in distance (moving away, for example) and a
5% change in lateral position. That is, the distance changed by
0.05 x 3000 = 150 ft and the lateral position changed by 0.05 x
60 = 3 ft. This would "fuzz" the horizontal top-bottom edges by
0.05 x 20 = 1 ft from radial motion (angular smear 1 ft/3000 ft)
and the vertical left right edges would be smeared by the
combination of .05 x 60 ft = 3 ft due to radial motion and 0.05
x 60 ft = 3 ft due to lateral motion for a total of 6 ft
(angular smear 6/3000). In other words, the vertical edges
(left-right) would appear about 6 times "fuzzier" than the
horizontal edges. Looking at the picture... who's to say? (If
you don't like this "fuzziness ratio" pick your own distance and
lateral position changes.)

OK. Now we come to the interesting part that results from the
assumption that some blur is a result of radial motion. In the
above I calculated the distance change at 150 ft for 5% edge
blur (5% of 3000 ft). This distance would have been covered in
1/250 sec. Velocity? 150 ft/(1/250 sec) = (gulp) 37,500 ft/sec
(speed of sound in air is about 1100 ft/sec). The lateral motion
of only 3 ft in 1/250 sec corresponds to a measely 750 ft/sec.
Clearly the inclusion of blur caused by radial distance change
introduces a new feature to the analysis, namely very high
speed!!!

Now cut the assumed distance to 30 ft, 1/100 of the previous.
Now, instead of a 60 ft Reticulan craft we now have a chubby 0.6
ft tweety bird, 7 " long by about 2.4 " high. All distances are
proportional so 5% changes are now 1.5 ft radial and 0.03 ft
lateral in 1/250 of a second corresponding to a mere 375 ft/sec
radial and 7.5 ft/sec lateral.

Wait a minute! 375 ft/sec for a bird? (88 ft/sec = 60 mph)
I think not! Not even high flying pelicans!

OK, cut the distance to 3 ft. This is "buggy" distance. The
length is about 0.7" and the height about 0.2". Fat beetle size?
Again distances and speeds are proportional so the distance
moved is 0.15 ft radial and 0.003 ft lateral. The speeds are
37.5 ft/sec radial and 0.75 ft/sec lateral. Now, 37.5 ft/sec
sounds a bit high for a bug... but maybe not! Also: if you allow
that the object was only several ft from the camera, then it is
possible to "share" the overall blur between the defocus due to
short distance and the blur dur t motion toward or away from. In
other words, if I assume a bug close to the lens which was
flying toward or away from the camera at the time of the photo I
may be able to deduce a combination of defocus and radial motion
that would result in a reasonable bug speed (what is that?) and
still get the smear/blur shown in the photo.

Of course, if this were an insect or a bird there could be other
dynamic conditions changing (wings flapping) that could produce
blurriness of portions of the image that would be superimposed
on any blurriness caused motion.

What does this all prove?

Well, at the very least we now know that things aren't as simple
as we thought!

Looking at the photo, with its juicy shape and bright and dark
"surfaces" (well, the LOOK like surfaces) one can be "seduced"
into saying, perhaps in a low voice, even a whisper... "saucer,
saucer, saucer...."

But now we know, if a saucer its the speed model.

I'mnot afraid of speed (in a saucer). Read my paper on
acceleration to find that out:

http://www.nidsci.org/articles/maccabee/acceleration.html

But, let's face it, that is the Xtreme Xplanation. Before we
make the flying ET leap we must be certain that neither bug nor
bird not film flaw - nor a chance combination of all three(?)
figure that one out(!) - could explain the image

And, by the way, I'm not convinced its a bird or a bug! But I
have yet to take the flying leap!!








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              Re: Harrassment - Has It Happened To You? - Velez

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 03:29:46 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 07:48:52 -0500
Subject: Re: Harrassment - Has It Happened To You? - Velez


>From: Katharina Wilson <K_Wilson.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2004 17:46:57 -0500
>Subject: Re: Harrassment - Has It Happened To You?

>>From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
>>Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2004 17:46:57 -0500
>>Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 11:26:54 EST
>>Subject: Harrassment - Has It Happened To You?

>>Often we read or hear or watch on TV where witnesses to UFO
>>events, investigators and experiencers mention that they got a
>'>visit' either by persons posing as government officials or bona
>>fide government officials. Also stories of shadowy characters
>>who seem to know more than the average bear.

>>Since many of you have been in the fight either as researchers,
>>skeptics, experiencers, has any of you ever been harrassed,
>>warned or threatened?

>>How did you handle it?

>>Is this a real situation or overblown?

>I haven't had any overt harassment, but there have been some
>"interesting" things that have occurred over the years.

>I started getting a lot of "clicking" sounds on my phone when I
>lived in Portland. OR. Nothing like this happened prior to
>living there or in my previous location until I published my
>book.

>After I wrote my book, "The Alien Jigsaw," I began hearing
>clicks on the phone when I would talk (to basically anyone). It
>became so noticeable, that I had the telephone repair people out
>to my home several times, but they could never find a reason for
>it.

Hi Katharina, Greg, All,

Like Katharina, I haven't ever experienced any overt harassment,
however I did have one very curious incident happen that made me
think I might be being observed or monitored and that maybe the
people doing it wanted me to know they were watching me.

This happened just after the NOVA program aired back in 1995. I
went out to buy a pack of smokes one afternoon and I noticed a
car containing two men sitting just a few doors away from the
front of my house. The man behind the wheel was in his early to
mid 60's if I had to venture a guess as to age and the other
fellow appeared to be in his mid-thirties. Nothing unusual about
two guys sitting in a parked car chatting. What set this
incident apart from the norm was; as I approached the vehicle
I overheard the older man exclaim to the younger one, "Oh sh*t!
That's our man!"

They were both looking directly at me!

The young guy's jaw went slack as if he had been caught with his
hand in the cookie jar, and the older man had an expression of
anger on his face. He immediately cranked up the engine and they
_peeled_ out of there, tires squealing.

I just stood there with my jaw on the ground. I didn't know what
to make of the older man's cryptic remark or the entire incident
for that matter. Who on earth would want to keep tabs on me I
wondered. Why were these guys hanging around in front of my
house where I could see them if they were trying to conduct some
kind of clandestine investigation of me or my  movements? What
the devil did that old guy mean by the remark, "that's our man"?
The only thing that made any sense to me at all was that maybe
they wanted me to know that somebody was watching me. To what
end, I have no idea. I do know what the old guy said and that
they were both looking right at me when he said it.

Go figure that one out!

Not being paranoid by nature, I simply chose to forget the whole
thing. The only people I ever mentioned it to was, my wife, Budd
Hopkins and Errol Bruce-Knapp. There really isn't much that
anyone can make out of a weird incident like that. I will
venture this much though, I wouldn't be at all surprised if some
government agency wasn't monitoring a few individuals who may
be reporting UFO contact/abduction in public. Like I said, this
incident happened shortly after the NOVA segment on abduction
aired.

Thought I'd share that one.


John Velez
One of ET's lab rats









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              Re: Harrassment - Has It Happened To You? - Novak

From: John Novak <john.nul>
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 15:10:39 -0800
Fwd Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 07:52:23 -0500
Subject: Re: Harrassment - Has It Happened To You? - Novak


>From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 11:26:54 EST
>Subject: Harrassment - Has It Happened To You?

>Since many of you have been in the fight either as researchers,
>skeptics, experiencers, has any of you ever been harrassed,
>warned or threatened?

While a few years old now, this article I'm including from James
Gilliland (www.eceti.org) and myself reflects the harrassment
we've had over the years. The most direct harrassment I had came
a year after we wrote the article.

On arriving home to the Sattva Sanctuary in Trout Lake, WA after
visiting family in Seattle, we found our bedroom had been
ransacked and everything gone through. It was quite upsetting,
especially after hearing from our housemate that two FBI agents
showed up the night before we returned and gave warnings about
an imminent terrorist attack that would take place in Seattle.
This was only a few weeks after the plane crashes on 9-11-01.

After cleaning up the mess, I sat own at my computer to send out
an urgent email about a UFO event that had taken place over the
weekend while we were gone. As soon as I hit the "send" button,
my computer crashed. It crashed so hard that I had to get a
whole new computer system. Hard drive, processor, modem, video
card...everything. The entire computer was wiped out.  I still
do not know if that was a legitimate terrorist warning they were
privy to, or if it was meant to intimidate after thrashing our
room and computer.

I really began to get scared at this point. Like I said, we had
just returned from Seattle. While in Seattle, I met up with a
different researcher who passed me along some very intersting
information that is now evidence in a class action lawsuit
agsinst the Federal Reserve (see our website for those details).
When returning to the ranch, there was a physicist and his wife
who had been doing research on "free energy" systems amongst
other technologies with James. After we all talked over what had
just transpired, he helped me calm down and suggested my wife
and I go get a meal at the restaurant down the road.

Sounded like a great plan. However, on the road to the
restaurant, we began noticing white vans and Chevy suburbans
passing us by, making sudden u-turns and then following us. All
of them had US government license plates. In all, there was
around 8-10 of these vehicles. Here we are out in the middle of
nowhere, suddenly getting surrounded by white governement
vehicles. We pulled off the road once we got the to the
restaurant and ran inside. We were followed in by a gentleman
you would call the typical "MIB". Full black suit, tie, dark
glasses and he continually spoke into what was probably a
microphone on his sleeve collar. He took a both across from us
and never took his eyes from me.

I went from being scared to being pretty freaked out. I had no
idea what was going to happen. Wasn't sure if they were going to
take me away in a van or what. And there I was with my wife and
child. I had heard the stories about people who just dissapear,
never to be heard from again, and I feared that this was the
last meal I would ever share with my family. I just hoped that
if they did take me away, that they would do so away from the
eyes of my son. That was not the last memory of his father I
wanted him to have.

I finally put my head in my hands, closed my eyes and said with
a heavy sigh and a few tears, "I think it's time to forget all
this research and just go back to Seattle. I'll find a regular
job and we'll just pretend none of this happened."

After about 30-40 seconds of deep thought, I looked up and the
guy in the booth was gone. The white vehicles outside were gone.

Three days later we were packed and on our way to visit family
in Michigan for 3 months.

I have not had the harrasment since. James continues to have
problems with state officials, but after talking with some black
budget boys who went to the ranch to see the UFOs for
themselves, it seems the federal harrassment is over. James told
them that the harassment needed to end, and for the most part it
did.

The only thing now I can say may be harrassment is my wife lost
two jobs since then. Both times it occured right after
publishing research over my own website. Coincidence? Perhaps.
But the timing has been uncanny.

I know many of you think James is a fraud and we faked or
misinterpret the videos and photographs. That he's nothing but
another New Age whacko. Neat. Your right to think so. However, I
can tell you that nothing was ever faked under my watch, and I
was his webmaster for many years. I also lived there for 6
months in 2001. I visited regularly.

I do not know if James is truly speaking to ET. I do not know if
there are pilots behind these unknown craft that fly over and
sometime land on Mt. Adams on a regular basis. But it sure seems
something very real is happening in that place and has been for
centuries. James just happens to be the most vocal and
charismatic personality to go public about his experiences
there.

It is such as shame that the people who could do the most
scientific study on the place are the ones who have been most
upset by James and his spiritual message. In many ways, I think
the UFO community itself is much more harassing, intimidating
and outright manipulative than any MIBs.

For instance, James sent the state director for MUFON here in
Washington a copy of all the best video and all the background
research materials done on the area by ourselves and from the
research commisioned by Hynek's UFO group. The director took all
this to his small group of people that he said included a
minister, lawyer amongst others.

After going over all the material, he said they came to the
conclusion that there was definitely something going on over
Trout Lake, but because of James' spiritual beliefs, they were
not interested in continuing the research!

Say what?!#&^%!%@#!

Who the hell cares what James believes? Investigate the damn
UFOs, please!

Then Peter Davenport went on a spree of slamming the UFO
activity at the ranch as nothing more than satellites and
calling us all liars and charlatans at all the local MUFON and
other UFO and paranormal events in the Seattle area. He even
denied that UFO hotspots existed when interviewed by Art Bell!
And he never even bothered to look at the evidence or go there
to investigate for himself.

What is wrong with this picture? Dr. Hynek commissions studies
of the area and calls it ideal for UFO study considering the
massive amounts of research, documentation and ongoing sightings
and anomalous activity. Other researchers make similar
conclusions as the years go by.

20 years after Hynek, James Gilliland and a whole host of
independent investigators come along and get the video and film
that has eluded past researchers.

Even the video clips that have been shown on television such as
on the History Channel are not the best ones James and others
have. The editors keep leaving out the good stuff and putting on
skeptibunkers. I could not believe my ears when I saw a
skeptibunker saying that these were nothing more than sattelites
as they were showing a clip of a UFO on the frickin' side of the
Mt. Adams, morphing, splitting into 4 and coming back together.
A sattelite on the ground? And then no follow up comment on such
absurdity? Come on people!

And this is just my own personal experience with one UFO
hotspot. I am only one of many all over this planet with similar
tales of harrasment from MIBs and Ufologists.


-John Novak
www.supremalex.org

--------------------------

www.eceti.org

The bringing of this message to you has been very costly and has
been met with great resistance. It would be in error not to
mention the dark side of contact with benevolent, spiritually
and technologically advanced off world visitors. There is an
elite of which their main goal is to keep you in darkness,
subservient and dependent upon them for all of your physical and
spiritual needs.

There are three things which threaten this elite group most the
most of which is sovereignty. Each individual making their own
personal God connection is a threat. This would do away with the
hierarchical structure where men put themselves between God and
the individual to control and enslave the masses. The
realization that the Creator is not separate from creation is a
threat.. When one realizes the true meaning of Omnipresent,
warring on the other children of God in all their diversity
ends. Warring on and the destruction of Nature, our environment
ends. The ability of those to capitalize at the expense of
Humanity and Nature ends. This is the greatest threat to the war
industry. Enlightenment, Sovereignty, Universal Peace and the
right to free will and self determination all threaten this
elite group.

These are the principles by which we operate. There have been
serious consequences for standing on these basic human and
divine rights.

Our first attacks came from above. Choi, a good friend who had
filmed a Pleiadian ship after a telepathic contact which told
him to take his video camera on a plane from Portland to LA, was
hit with psychotronics. Shortly after mailing out 9 video copies
of the tape, we were visited by black helicopters. They circled
the ranch at low elevation three times video taping the ranch,
after which they dropped down 2 feet above the ground thirty
yards away in a stare down. I could see the mole on the right
cheek of the pilot and the tan jump suit with an insignia he was
wearing. This was in the presence of two families and a couple
of friends. It was an intimidation run and the noise shook the
two houses.

Late one night Choi was hit by some sort of beam. It caused his
heart to skip. He could not breath and he broke out with lesions
all over his body. The Pleiadians intervened and healed him. The
lesions disappeared as quick as they came. He was later told his
student visa was no longer valid and was sent back to Korea.

My other good friend Paul was arrested and sent to jail on a
trumped up charge for a year. It had to do with using safe and
natural means of pest control not sanctified by the industry. I
myself have had a fictitious job and income assigned to me, have
had liens based on fraudulent information placed against the
property by the State of Washington. This has gone all the way
to the governor's office, yet nothing was done. So much for
truth and justice.

I have also been hit on a regular basis with psychotronics, have
had my truck sabotaged on several occasions, one of which the
entire wheel and rim came off on the highway. My books were
taken off the ISBN list or shown to be out of print.

Our web site has been attacked and our account erased. The
people at the server said that if they did not know me and were
good friends with me, they would have to say I never existed.

My webmaster's computer was hacked into somehow earlier this
year. The perpetrators were able to invisibly disable his anti-
virus software so they could then upload a swarm of computer
viruses, causing him to have to reformat his hard drive several
times. This coincidentally happened on the same day some big
name computer hardware and software corporations (one who makes
the processor and one who makes the anti-virus software on his
computer) and military intelligence people gave the site a look.
In just the last few months, his personal website was disabled
the same day he left to come visit the center here. On his way
home with his wife and 2 year old child, his entire rear wheel
and rim came off his car while driving. The next day his health
took an immediate turn for the worse and he was in and out of
the hospital 4 different times with two extended stays for
pancreatitis that the doctors still have no answers as to why it
happened. During his first hospitalization in early April, he
had an NDE and came out enlightened. He also had to be taken by
an aid car to the emergency room earlier this month because of a
full grand mal seizure.

Our phones went down constantly at crucial times and we had some
power outages that destroyed most of the equipment in the house.
It happened at the pole. Was it tampering? I have also had my
checking account stripped of all funds.

This has not deterred us. It has only made us more determined to
get out the truth. Although it has been very costly on many
levels to friends and family, if asked I would do it all over
again [webmaster's note: so would I!]. I believe in honesty,
integrity, courage, and universal justice. They are our true
nature and cannot be suppressed forever.

These people who would like to hold you in darkness and
subservience have been very clever. They have, however, not been
wise. What ever pain, suffering or loss they have brought upon
others, they will have to endure. There is a greater force they
cannot fight nor run from. That force is pressing hard on upon
them and their days of tyranny are coming to a close.

Most of the attacks have ceased other than a few covert
disruptions. I believe it is due to the fact that we came out
with the information rather than hide. I am a little fish in
this process. When enough fish get together you have a school. A
mystery school. Don't let our efforts be in vain. We need your
help individually and collectively.









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   Feb > Feb 11

                   Re: Review Of Sight Unseen - Goldstein

From: Josh Goldstein <lovolution.nul>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 01:21:05 -0800
Fwd Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 07:55:07 -0500
Subject: Re: Review Of Sight Unseen - Goldstein


>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 13:42:00 -0500
>Subject: Re: Review Of Sight Unseen

>>From: Greg Sandow <greg.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 16:39:43 -0500
>>Subject: Re: Review Of Sight Unseen - Sandow

>>>From: Nick Pope <nick.nul>
>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 20:10:52 -0000
>>>Subject: Re: Review Of Sight Unseen

<snip>

As you know, I am not an abductee nor do I have any expertise in
that area of study. I only know what I have been reading over
the years and what I have heard from experiencers. I have yet to
read Budd Hopkins' latest book.

Unless I get abducted I will never really what the experience is
really like. I see that as similar when people ask me about
combat in Vietnam. It's one thing to tell about them but unless
one was in the same situation that person will not know what it
was really like and what I felt at the time. One can talk to
therapists or others but they will only get an idea of what I
know I feel from that trauma but they were not there to
experience it at the time. John, I fully honor you being "man"
enough not to hide your emotions from this list.

In terms of the symbols abductees have reported, I wonder if
Budd has had them looked at from various perspectives. What I am
going to say does not concern the validity of abductees. I am
wondering if these symbols have been examined by professionals
who study symbols. In the past I suggested that there is a Jung
Institute in New York. I am sure that there are academics in
your area who have expertise with symbols in history. This can
be done without stating names and without contaminatingpolluting
the population of abductees and their symbols. I am suggesting
studying the similarities between the symbols of different
abductees, and what they may represent in known symbology. The
Jung Institute may  also be able to interpret the symbols
psychologically. They can tell whether they contain what are
known as archetypal symbols. I am not implying anything
regarding the actual source of the symbols but I think they
deserve a multi discipline examination. Certain baselines would
need to be defined, such as how many people remembered these
symbols directly or under hypnosis, etc.

What do you think of this idea? Do you know whether Budd has
taken that approach or whether he would be willing to do so?
Would you be willing to develop it?


Josh








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                  Re: The 2003 Canadian UFO Survey - Hatch

From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 02:48:59 -0800
Fwd Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 07:57:21 -0500
Subject: Re: The 2003 Canadian UFO Survey - Hatch



>                             The 2003
>                       CANADIAN UFO SURVEY:
>                    an analysis of UFO reports
>                             in Canada
>
>                 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

>                            Compiled by
>                           Geoff Dittman
>                                and
>                        Chris A. Rutkowski

>                           Contributors:

>         Errol Bruce-Knapp, MUFON Ontario and UFO Updates
>             Sue Darroch, Para-Researchers of Ontario
>                      Peter Davenport, NUFORC
>             Michel Deschamps, MUFON Ontario, Sudbury
>                    George Filer, Filer's Files
>           Stanton Friedman, Fredericton, New Brunswick
>        Anita Goodrich, Hauntings Research Group (Ontario)
>                   Hans Grasholm, UFO*BC (Yukon)
>               Jen H., Newfoundland UFOs, St. John's
>                 Martin Jasek, UFO*BC (Vancouver)
>               Stephanie Lechniak, Haunted Hamilton
>                    Don Ledger, UFO Nova Scotia
>                       Dave Pengilly, UFO*BC
>                  Jacques Poulet, CHUCARA, Quebec
>                     Joe Trainor, UFO Roundup
> Elliott Van Dusen, Paranormal Phenomena Research & Investigation
>                        Brian Vike, HBCCUFO

>                              Editor
>                      Chris Rutkowski, UFOROM

>               Data Entry, Compilation and Analyses
>                       Geoff Dittman, UFOROM

>                           Published by

>                   Ufology Research of Manitoba
>                      Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
>                              c 2004



Hello Goeff, Chris, EBK and all contributors, of course:

This is an excellent report. I find the list at the end most
interesting, a set of cases with good ratings for both
strangeness and credibility.

This is just the sort of thing I look for when I compile
listings for my own database.

Congratulations on a very good and welcome job done!


- Larry Hatch








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                    Re: Review Of Sight Unseen - Cammack

From: Diana Cammack <cammack.nul>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 13:18:37 +0200
Fwd Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 07:59:20 -0500
Subject: Re: Review Of Sight Unseen - Cammack


>From: Nick Pope <nick.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 20:22:23 -0000
>Subject: Re: Review Of Sight Unseen

>>From: Joe McGonagle <joe.mcgonagle.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 14:59:46 -0000
>>Subject: Re: Review Of Sight Unseen

>>>From: Nick Pope <nick.nul>
>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 00:56:58 -0000
>>>Subject: Re: Review Of Sight Unseen

>><snip>

>>>I acknowledge that this is frustrating for other researchers. A
>>>similar debate rages over symbols reported by some abductees.
>>>Budd has a large database of such symbols and is often urged to
>>>publish the data. But he deliberately withholds this information
>>>so that he can use it as a way of cross-checking witness
>>>testimony. It would clearly be very interesting if different
>>>abductees reported having seen the same symbols, provided Budd
>>>could be sure that there had been no collusion. The moment the
>>>data are in the public domain, this technique would be invalid.

>>I am aware that you are currently taking a particular interest
>>in the abduction phenomenon, Nick. Has Budd shared any of his
>>symbol database with you, and are you paying specific attention
>>to symbols and/or languages involved in abduction reports in the
>>course of your current research?

>>This is one avenue of abduction research which may produce
>>measurable results, IMHO.


<snip>

>I share your view that these are fruitful areas for research,
>and when time allows, I intend to return to this. But even if
>some apparent matches are reported, we need to be cautious. If
>the symbols are in the public domain (e.g. on the abduct.com
>website) we cannot be certain that the abductee has not come
>across them before. And even if more than one abductee reports
>symbols not in the public domain (e.g. ones in Budd's
>deliberately withheld database) we cannot be certain that there
>has been no collusion, with intent to defraud.

>Anyway, perhaps this is an area that the Goldsmiths College
>study might probe, in the course of the detailed interviews they
>intend to carry out with participants into their scientific
>study into the alien abduction phenomenon. I'll raise this with
>Professor Chris French or Julia Santomauro.


I urge any researchers to collect material in places like
Africa, in order to avoid the problem of experiencers being
exposed to media (movies, internet, etc) where symbols, stories,
and other data are shared.

While it may require an effort to find abductees in such areas,
the reward of collecting untainted testimonies should outweigh
the problems.


Diana








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   Feb > Feb 11

             Re: Oxygen Detected In Wake Of Extrasolar Planet -

From: Walt Williams <walt_williams.nul>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 03:23:14 +0000
Fwd Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 08:02:01 -0500
Subject: Re: Oxygen Detected In Wake Of Extrasolar Planet -


>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 06:20:58 -0800
>Subject: Oxygen Detected In Wake Of Extrasolar Planet

>Source: The News Sentinel

>http://www.fortwayne.com/mld/newssentinel/7911756.htm

>Mon, Feb. 09, 2004

<snip>

Frank,

Neat article, thanks. I have an image of HD209458 transiting in
front of the sun, if anyone cares to take a peek. I posted this
on my website back in 1999. Scroll down from the anchor... its
about middle of the page. Its a cool picture.

http://www.setv.org/motivate.html#exoplanet_HD209458


Best Wishes,

Walt Williams

Director
Search for ExtraTerrestrial Visitation (SETV)
Northridge California, 91367, USA
http://www.setv.org

walt_williams.nul
===================================








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                     Re: Review Of Sight Unseen - Miller

From: Stuart Miller <Stuart.Miller4.nul>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 12:14:40 -0000
Fwd Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 08:03:59 -0500
Subject: Re: Review Of Sight Unseen - Miller


>From: John Harney <magonia.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 22:17:07 -0000
>Subject: Re: Review Of Sight Unseen

>>From: Stuart Miller <Stuart.Miller4.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 18:57:52 -0000
>>Subject: Re: Review Of Sight Unseen

>>>From: John Harney <magonia.nul>
>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 21:29:44 -0000
>>>Subject: Re: Review Of Sight Unseen

<snip>

>If someone visited his doctor and asked him to have a look at
>his scoop marks, or other strange marks on his skin, the doctor
>would presumably tell him what they were and prescribe
>appropriate medication if necessary, or if he didn't know what
>they were he would probably refer him to a dermatologist. I
>don't think it likely that the doctor would explain that the
>marks were caused by the Greys who use incredibly crude methods
>for obtaining tissue samples - not even if he had read Budd
>Hopkins's books.

The point about the scoop marks is that they are an anachronism.
As you will know from the book, they are the scar tissue left
over from a now dated medical procedure that is no longer used.

The point is, why are abductees turning up with these markings,
particularly when none of them have ever had this procedure?

And much to my shame, I had forgotten something that Greg Sandow
kindly mentioned in his message. Abductees have, on countlerss
occasions, been subjected to psychiatric examination and found
to be in sound mental health. This is a proven fact John and it
does rather remove the main block of your argument. Do you have
any other point to make that might convince the rest of us that
abductees are bonkers?

>The point I am trying to make is that in evaluating abduction
>reports we should admit that some things are difficult to
>explain in conventional terms, but at the same time we must
>retain some grip on reality if we hope to be taken seriously. If
>we don't expect to be taken seriously but just want to argue
>among ourselves or entertain people then I suppose it doesn't
>really matter.

Good point, but obviously where we differ is where the line is drawn. I
think that Bud puts forward a fairly convincing case that something is
amiss.

As for being taken seriously, forget it. We never will be. You
cannot fight a propaganda campaign that's been waged against us
for the last 50 years.

<snip>

>Probably more South American than North American. Many early
>reports came from South America, but the details were rather
>different to the stories of the Greys as developed by Hopkins
>and Jacobs. The Villas Boas case introduced the idea of
>interbreeding with aliens. However, some of the early reports
>were of failed attempts at abductions, the aliens being repelled
>by shotgun blasts!

OK John, we'll forget about the entire American continent and
mark them all down as "dodgy".

<snip>

>>>I don't aim barbs at those who claim to have been abducted - I
>>>am concerned about those who exploit them, by sensationalising
>>>their accounts and claiming that abductions are physically real.

>>But on that basis John, The Lancet and the rest of them may as
>>well pack up and shut down if you remove from them the right,
>>with the client/patient's permission, for contributors to review
>>unusual or interesting cases. I suspect it's just in the case of
>>abductions that you would prefer this to be the reality.

>The doctors who write in The Lancet do not generally indulge in
>fantastic speculations as to the causes of their patients'
>illnesses.

You think? You have to ask yourself why cases are featured in
the first place. Often, it is because they are bizarre or very
unusual or else in some way advance the cause of medical
science.

And while this is a subjective statement, I don't believe Bud
sensationalises the cases he writes about. They do that
themselves.

>>>There are many on this list who take a very indulgent attitude
>>>to such people, but are constantly moaning that mainstream
>>>science doesn't take ufology seriously.

>>Let me fill in the blanks. This is because this is a serious
>>List filled with serious and intelligent people and there should
>>be no room here for nonsensical gibberish like talk of
>>abductions. Can I suggest you visit the Virtually Strange Home
>>page? Unless someone has held a gun to Errol's head, it would
>>seem that the List Moderator and Site owner doesn't feel the
>>same way. Would you like to be the one to tell him he needs
>>professional help? Best of luck.

>I would never presume to tell Errol what to allow on this List;
>that would obviously be ridiculous.

My point, which I didn't make very well, was this. I have no
idea what the List Moderator's views are on abduction, but
hypothetically speaking, let us assume they broadly mirror
yours. Yet he is still prepared to give the subject space on the
site. He is prepared to be tolerant of other ideas even if they
conflict with his own. I don't sense that from you, at least in
relation to this topic.

<snip>

>I am not the only one on this List to be dismissing a great deal
>of what passes for "ufology". There have been many posts
>recently complaining of pseudo-scientific nonsense and crazy UFO
>conferences. I realise that many people find this sort of stuff
>entertaining, and they want to believe in it, or at least to
>achieve a pleasant suspension of disbelief. Personally I find
>wild speculation and downright lies masquerading as science or
>scholarship profoundly irritating.

No disrespect intended but I am wary of those who need to drag
in the whole world in order to bolster their arguments. At this
moment, I am not interested in what others might think about
what appears on this List, just you John.

I appreciate your efforts in trying to keep this general subject
nailed down and stop it drifting off into the realms of total
flakedom, but I think most people would find it difficult to
ignore the claims of many hundreds of thousands of others who
have had strange experiences that cannot easily be explained.
You can write some of them off as cranks or attention seekers
but you can't write them all off, by a long way.

I think the whole concept of abductions might be difficult for
you, which is fine, but I guess what I am asking for is maybe a
bit of kindness and patience in this direction. I'm not accusing
you of not caring, clearly you do as I think part of your
irritation with this is your perception of the harm being done
to abductees as a result of the publicity given to them. But
like it or not, this seems to be a real phenomenon and it is
deserving of our attention and interest.


Stuart Miller








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   Feb > Feb 11

                      Re: The Beveridge UFO - Lehmberg

From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg.nul>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 06:57:03 -0600
Fwd Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 08:06:19 -0500
Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO - Lehmberg


>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 01:46:36 -0400
>Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO

>>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 12:51:46 -0500
>>Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO

>>>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 14:57:16 -0500
>>>Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO

>>>>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>>Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 13:21:40 -0500
>>>>Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO

>Jeez, you two... pistols at dawn?

>Tone it down a bit. It's only a damn UFO/BUG shot.

>And there's no need to fight over me.


Well - It's all your fault Don, what with all the suggestive
clothing and heavy lip gloss. Your come-hither looks and nine
inch heeled CFMS aren't fooling anybody either. I've been
tempted to fight over you myself (and _have_ when I think about
it - LOL!).

But yeah - lets all step back, take a deep breath, and remember
how much we entertain the CSICOPians (and retrograde CSICOPians)
when we do this.

A thought.


Lehmberg.nul

EXPLORE "AlienViewGroup" at its HostPros URL.
http://www.alienview.net


JOHN FORD RESTORATION FUND - John will be released eventually.
He'll need a tax free cash stake to get on his feet. Let's put
one together for him; the bigger it is - the more attention
he gets. It could have been you. E-mail for detail.
$450.00 pledged - $200.00 collected!

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite.
What others see from afar, I leave far behind me."
- Giordano Bruno, scourged by the scabrously specious scurrilous.









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   Feb > Feb 11

               Re: Stupidity In The New Age Of Anti-Science -

From: Stuart Miller <Stuart.Miller4.nul>
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 23:07:35 -0000
Fwd Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 09:19:34 -0500
Subject: Re: Stupidity In The New Age Of Anti-Science -


>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 05:48:54 -0800
>Subject: Stupidity In The New Age Of Anti-Science


Frank,

Thanks for posting this. Please be assured that all the negative
comments below are not aimed at you, the messenger, but at the
journalist

What a nasty, hysterical appalling piece of work. And that's
just the writer.


>Source: The Scotsman

>http://news.scotsman.com/opinion.cfm?id=3D160812004

>10 February 2004


>Stupidity in the new age of anti-science

>Gillian Bowditich

>SOME 3.7 million people claim to have been abducted by aliens.
>Only 11 per cent of Americans believe in evolution. Type "Flat
>Earth Society" into the Google search engine on the internet and
>you will have a choice of 466,000 sites. How did we get this
>stupid?

There is a strutting insensitive arrogance about the manner of
this writing which is so negative that it deflects from what
she's written. Only 11 per cent of Americans believe in
evolution?  May I congratulate the other 89 per cent then. They
appear to be more up to date about the shortcomings in Darwins
theories than this amateur seems to be.

>One explanation is that the aliens doing all that abducting have
>been removing people's brains. Perhaps there is a UFO pathology
>laboratory hovering somewhere over Bonnybridge with the sum of
>our collective senses pickled in jars.

There is only one reply I can posibly think of in response to
this.....

>How else are we to explain the phenomenon of what the
>philosopher Roger Scruton describes as "reason on the retreat,
>both as an ideal and a reality"? It's not just that we have
>become a nation of gullible, emotionally incontinent, deeply
>irrational sentimentalists. Nor that, where once we would have
>hidden our credulousness, we now proudly wear it on our
>distressed linen sleeves. It is the fact that this stupidity is
>officially sanctioned, pandered to and incorporated into our
>laws.

>The latest example of this is the Human Tissues Bill currently
>going through Parliament. This bill is the government's response
>to the organ retention outcry at Royal Liverpool Children's
>Hospital in Alder Hey five years ago. If it becomes law, the use
>for research purposes of tissue samples, blood and even urine
>specimens, without specific patient consent, will be illegal.
>The penalty for a doctor flouting that law will be up to three
>years in jail.

And rightly so. This woman's complete lack of compassion is
amazing. Whatever follows on legislation wise in relation to
this matter has been brought upon the heads of the medical
establishment by their own gross insensitvity and greed. Picture
this. Imagine you have suffered the worst kind of tragedy that
any parent can experience - the loss of a child. A funeral
service is held, the child buried, and some time later you
discover that your child was buried without it's heart, liver,
etc. etc., and that nobody asked permission from you before
removing these organs. I would be quite happy to call anyone who
says otherwise, to their face, a liar if they reply that they
don't mind as it's all in the interests of medical progress.

And this is what was going on for years at Liverpool and I also
believe, in Bristol as well. If there is now an over reaction,
then it is regretable but more than understandable.

>According to Cancer Research UK and the Wellcome Trust, two of
>the biggest and best respected medical research organisations in
>the world, this bill could stifle advances in childhood
>leukaemia, cancer, SARS and AIDS. Already ten research projects
>on rare tumours in children have either folded or failed to
>start because of the difficulties in carrying out this kind of
>scientific research in the current hysterical climate. Mark
>Walport, director of the Wellcome Trust, believes that if this
>bill were effective now, the work that led to the discovery of
>genes responsible for the most common inherited form of breast
>cancer might not be possible. It could even be a criminal
>offence to try. The Royal College of Pathologists is extremely
>concerned about the situation and even the Medical Research
>Council, the government-funded organisation, has serious doubts
>about the bill.

While some of what she writes above may or may not be true, one
need also to be wary of the counter attack from the medical
profession, who probably object to having their butchering
monitored as opposed to the free reign they were given
beforehand. There is a smell of a campaign here, where
everything is hyped up and over exagerated, as in the case of
any PR exercise. The hysteria she mentions seems to be rather
one sided at the moment.

>So the government is rethinking this shoddily drafted piece of
>legislation which is likely to clog the system with yet more
>bureaucracy, restrict vital research and unwittingly criminalise
>doctors? Wrong. The government is pressing ahead. It is doing so
>because it is more worried about determined pressure groups
>which will resort to emotional blackmail than it is about
>stifling vital medical research.

Perhaps she should wait until the legislation is passed before
making judgements. This government are many things, but the one
thing they are definitely not are stupid.

>There is no question that the guidelines surrounding organ
>retention needed to be overhauled after it became clear that the
>practice was widespread. Nor is there any doubt that a group of
>people who had already suffered the appalling tragedy of losing
>a child, were further upset when they discovered that some of
>their loved one's organs had been retained without their
>knowledge. But the emotive language which has been used in
>relation to these cases is a scandal in itself. "We will never
>know how many were butchered for their organs," ran one tabloid
>headline. The children were referred to as "torn souls". An
>alien, reading the Daily Record while waiting for a passing
>human to abduct, could have been forgiven for believing Burke
>and Hare were on the loose.

>The dangerous and insulting premise of the new legislation is
>that doctors, if not legislated against, will do unspeakable
>things to the rest of us.

Well, there are no figures for the number of people who have
died on the operating theatre as a result of a drunken surgeon
but I believe the numbers, as indicated to me by a doctor, are
quite high. Furthemore, our newspapers are filled on a daily
basis with stories of doctors who have neglected, sexually
mollested, or actually abused patients. While relatively
speaking the numbers are low, can you blame the public for
cynicism?

>But even the one rogue pathologist who
>caused so much upset at Alder Hey was not killing people. He was
>saving lives.

Yes, but in so doing managed to destroy the lives of many
hundreds of others.

>Some of the bereaved have now formed themselves into the
>Nationwide Organ Retention Group. They have received apologies,
>explanations, a change in clinical practice, an ex-gratia offer
>of damages and will soon have a new law. But this is not enough.
>They now want compensation, despite the fact that this will
>haemorrhage vital funds from an already indebted NHS.

The NHS insurers (if such a thing exists) should have ensured
their clients observed best practices and standards.

>Their lawyer, the deliciously named Mervyn Fudge, says some of
>his clients have been unable to work because of the trauma they
>have suffered in discovering that body parts had been taken from
>relatives without permission. They will need compensation for
>loss of earnings as well as compensation for suffering.

>Why is nobody prepared to stand up to these chancers?

This is too much. She is disgusting.

>The reason
>is that the ultimate crime in these touchy-feely times is not
>ignorance or irrationality but lack of empathy. Politicians lack
>the courage to condemn this madness even when it means the
>potential for real harm to be done to those dependent on medical
>research for their health.

>This cowardliness on the part of the authorities is being
>exploited by extreme groups opposed to all kinds of scientific
>progress, be it genetic modification, therapeutic cloning or
>animal testing.

This individual, I refuse to call her a human being, would no
doubt have fared very well under the Third Reich. This is Nazi
Party Tract.

>In the last few months they have scored several
>victories. Cambridge University has dropped its plans for a =A332
>million primate-research centre for the study of diseases such
>as Alzheimer's and Parkinson's because of security fears.

Then perhaps she can volunteer. After all, her DNA is 99 per
cent identical to the primates concerned. Does anybody else see
similarities here between this and abductions?

>Colin
>Blakemore, head of the Medical Research Council was dropped as a
>potential candidate for an honour because of New Labour's
>squeamishness about animal testing. Hunting and fur-farming have
>been banned by New Labour. The ease with which these lobby
>groups are able to infiltrate and influence government is
>alarming.

Did you watch the "Countryside" documentary a few years ago,
dearest Gillian, the one about Huntingdon Labs and the beagles?
No, I definitely wasn't in favour of the activists' campaign
that followed afterwards, but if you saw that and can still
write the crap above, then you are, gee, I've run out of
adjectives.

>The rest of us may not be firebombing the homes of scientists,
>but we happily swallow all manner of genetically modified
>bunkum, be it "molecularly restructured" designer water at =A33 a
>bottle, or the latest scare story.

Actually, no we don't. At least not in the UK. GM food anyone?

>Previous generations had their superstitions, but they had a
>fundamental belief in the ability of science to improve their
>quality of life. They were proved right. Within three
>generations, life expectancy in Britain rose by 30 years. In the
>half century after the Second World War, infant mortality fell
>from 50 deaths per 1,000 births to fewer than six. For good
>measure, science threw in the internet, talking pictures and the
>self-cleaning oven.

And the nuclear bomb, biological weapons, viruses, and one or two ther
little things. Thank you science.

>Science equalled progress and was seen as an almost universally
>good thing. Our grandparents may have balked at seating 13 at
>the dinner table, but they would never have argued that teaching
>children about feng shui was as important as teaching them the
>second law of thermodynamics.

One sweep of the arm and that's you New Age lot down the john.
Oh OK, she's not got it all wrong then!

>Now, in our age of unreason and anti-science, life expectancy is
>set to fall for the first time, the fate of tissue samples and
>diseased organs has become more important than the welfare of
>the living, and the government has announced that alternative
>treatments such as Indian ayurvedic medicine could be granted
>the same status as conventional medicine on the NHS. According
>to Francis Wheen's brilliant new book, How Mumbo Jumbo Conquered
>The World, the 36,000 general practitioners in this country are
>now outnumbered by the 50,000 purveyors of complementary and
>alternative medicine.

I now add "stupidity" to my description of this writing. This
isn't a fad, it's a statement of a lack of support and belief in
the medical profession. Oh what heresey! Not all bow down to the
Great God of Science. This is blasphemy surely.

>If that's what you want, fine. Just remember, while you are
>sitting under your pyramid reordering your charkas and
>rebalancing your energy flow, not to get cancer. And be careful
>not to venture too close to the edge of the world. You wouldn't
>want to fall off now, would you?

Spoilt child temper tantrum time.

The only valid point to come out of all this drivel are the
concerns of those who either have, or have relatives who have
diseases or illnesses for which at the moment science can offer
no remedies. I think actually that's her point but its difficult
to make out amongst the cacophony of wailing. And amid all that,
she has dishonestly failed to make one point clear. The only
thing that is fundamentally changing is that people need to be
asked first if its OK to remove certain organs from deceased
relatives. Errr just like they need to be asked now in relation
to organ donations for transplant. At the root of all this is a
fear that "permissions" will dry up as a result of what's
happened. And perhaps they might for a while.

But unlike her, I have much more faith in people than she
apparently has. It is possible that some people might die in the
short term as a result and one can't ignore that. I wouldn't
want to be one of those people nor would I want it to happen to
anyone else. It is the price to be paid for the gross abuse of
trust that the medics have laid upon us. But as often, science
has persued it's own selfish course, indifferent to the
sensitivities of those it claims to be serving.

Frank. The letters page in The Scotsman following this article
might make interesting reading.


Stuart Miller








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   Feb > Feb 11

                     Experts Studying ISS Object Photos

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 06:12:47 -0800
Fwd Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 16:06:34 -0500
Subject: Experts Studying ISS Object Photos


Source: Interfax

http://www.interfax.ru/e/B/0/28.html?id_issue=8672897

Experts studying photos of object seen flying near ISS

Feb 10 2004 5:55PM

MOSCOW. Feb 10 (Interfax) - Russian and U.S. mission control
experts are scrutinizing photographs of an unidentified object
that the International Space Station crew saw flying near the ISS
but that a NASA spokesman dismissed as "no danger" to the station.

"It's so far unclear what kind of object it was," NASA public
relations officer Sergei Puzanov told Interfax. But "this object
poses no danger to the ISS."

An earlier NASA report said that, after checking the engines of
the Progress supply spaceship, the ISS crew, Russian Alexander
Kaleri and American Michael Foale, noticed a narrow strip of
apparently soft material, 20 to 25 centimeters long, that was
moving away from the station.

Some specialists believe the object may have been a piece of
insulation, and others think it may have been part of a ribbon
fixing something outside the station.

"It may prove impossible to determine what it is," Russian
mission control spokesman Valery Lyndin told Interfax.

"There was already an instance on the [Russian] Mir station where
it proved impossible to determine the origin of an object that
had been noticed outside the station, and specialists gave up
their studies.

"Those aboard the Mir had noticed a glittering object.

"Cosmonaut Musa Manarov made a video recording, which was
urgently transmitted to Earth, but it proved impossible to
determine the origin of the UFO. Specialists' conclusions varied."









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                   Mysterious Object Floats Away From ISS

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 06:20:59 -0800
Fwd Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 16:08:07 -0500
Subject: Mysterious Object Floats Away From ISS


Source: WFTV 9

http://www.wftv.com/news/2828549/detail.html

February 9, 2004

Mysterious Object Floats Away From International Space Station


Kennedy Space Center, Fla. -- In orbit, you don't want to hear
someone say, "What was that?!"

But, something has floated away from the International Space
Station. Now, NASA and the Russian Space Agency are trying to
figure out what it was.

They don't know what it is, but astronaut Michael Foale saw it
float away, and now Mission Control is trying to determine if it
came from the space station itself or a Russian capsule that just
docked with the station.

Commander Foale and cosmonaut Sasha Valerie spoke to educators
this morning, answering questions about their last mystery, a
recent loss of air pressure.

"The pressure changes were very similar to changes you
experience as weather, so it was not a big shift in pressure,"
said Foale.

They made no mention of the object floating away from the
station. Foale reported seeing a six to eight inch piece of
debris rotating slowly away from them, passing over the Russian
solar array panels.

The item was noticed just after a Russian progress capsule
docked with the station and test fired its thrusters. The first
impression from Mission Control is that it could have been
anything from some propellant, to a Velcro strap.

The science experiments continued aboard the station while
Russian Mission Control examined photographs to try and
determine what it was.

A NASA spokesperson in Houston says it doesn't appear the object
was vital to the space station, and based on the way it floated
away they do not believe it will come back into contact with the
space station either.

Meanwhile, back on the ground, the next American astronaut
preparing to live aboard the space station has fallen ill,
leaving NASA and the Russians to pick an entirely new team to
make the next trip.










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                           INEXPLICATA #12 On-Line

From: Scott Corrales <lornis1.nul>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 10:34:06 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 16:09:31 -0500
Subject: INEXPLICATA #12 On-Line



Dear Readers,

Inexplicata #12 (Winter 2003) is finally on-line at:

www.inexplicata.us

Enjoy!


Scott Corrales
Editor-Inexplicata, The Journal of Hispanic Ufology
Institute of Hispanic Ufology (IHU)







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                       Interviews With Edgar Mitchell

From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22.nul>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 07:17:43 -0800
Fwd Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 16:18:40 -0500
Subject: Interviews With Edgar Mitchell


Source: The Palm Beach Post

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/localnews

Palm Beach Post Interviews Ex-Astronaut Dr Edgar Mitchell

Mitchell Weighs In On Various Controversial Matters

Ex-Astronaut's Curiosity Continues -
By Eliot Kleinberg, Palm Beach Post
Sunday, February 8, 2004

Somewhere in deep space, Ed Mitchell experienced a cosmic
awakening that changed his life.

"I got to look out the window a lot," he recalled about his
return trip from the moon 33 years ago this week. "I had a
powerful insight looking at the heavens. Suddenly, it became
damn personal."

Since then, he has founded an institute to study the
unexplained, has written two books and keeps busy on the lecture
circuit. He asserts that very many people are like him:
questioning, challenging, keeping an open mind about the
unexplained.  This is fact about Edgar Dean Mitchell. He has a
doctorate. He served 20 years in the Navy. He helped rescue the
crippled Apollo 13 in 1970. And on Feb. 5, 1971, he became the
sixth man to walk on the moon.

While many of his fellow 1960s "right stuff" astronauts lead
quiet, sometimes reclusive lives, Mitchell, 73, stays in the
public eye. But he fiercely protects his home life on a spread
hidden among the nurseries west of Lantana, scattered with pine
trees and boasting its own corral and pond. Developers have come
knocking, but he's not interested.

His sprawling ranch house is cluttered with books, sculptures
and paintings, as well as photos, plaques and memorabilia of his
NASA career. Also on one wall: A Kurdish tapestry he bought in
Turkey in 1982 while on a scientific mission to find documents
and artifacts of the Nestorians, an ancient Christian sect. It
symbolizes his life: always searching.

Ed Mitchell was on a Navy ship in the Pacific Ocean in 1957 when
the Soviets shocked the world by flinging Sputnik into space,
beating the Americans and starting the space race. He decided
then, at age 27, that he wanted to be a part of the fledgling
U.S. space program.

"I knew at that point that humans wouldn't be far behind," he
said. "My motivation was like the bear that went over the
mountain: to see what he could see."

Born in the Depression era in west Texas, he grew up on a ranch
in Artesia, N.M. As he walked to school in nearby Roswell, he
sometimes saw Robert Goddard, the godfather of modern rocketry,
launching rockets into the sky. Around the time Mitchell was a
senior in high school, Roswell became a household word as the
site of an alleged crash of an alien spacecraft.

He started flying at age 13 and got his pilot's license at 16.
After college, he enlisted in the Navy and flew combat missions
in Korea. He earned two undergraduate degrees as well as a
Doctorate from MIT; his thesis described a mission to Mars.

Mitchell joined the astronaut corps in 1966. A year later, three
of his colleagues were vaporized in a fire on the launch pad
aboard Apollo 1. "It was a risky business and we knew it," he
said. Then he stops. His voice grows thick. "You can't lose your
friends and not be affected."

The space program continued and Mitchell eventually specialized
in the lunar module. He was set for the ill-fated Apollo 13
mission, but crewmate Alan Shepherd, who'd been sidelined by
inner-ear balance problems, needed more training. So his team -
 the third was command module pilot Stuart Roosa - was
rescheduled for Apollo 14.

As in the dark days after the Columbia and Challenger shuttle
disasters, missions were delayed more than a year by the Apollo
13 crisis. Mitchell said his Apollo 14 crew knew that if that
mission was anything less than a spectacular success, NASA would
have difficulty restoring public and government confidence in
the space program. By the time Apollo 14 finally went up,
budget cuts already had scrapped missions 18, 19 and 20, and
everyone at NASA knew Apollo 17 would be the last - which it
was.

Despite the years of preparation and anticipation, Mitchell
said, "You suppress your exhilaration and emotion and go do
the... job," he said.

A Revelation In Space
Mitchell and Alan Shepard spent 33 1/2 hours on the moon.
Shepherd hit the famous golf shot. Mitchell threw a javelin,
which got less press.

His crewmates and NASA superiors didn't know that Mitchell had
made secret arrangements to conduct space experiments on
extrasensory perception, the ability to send and receive
thoughts. "I was well aware as far as science was concerned this
was not mainstream," he said.

Four times on the flight, he focused on sets of numbers. He'd
alerted colleagues when he would be sending those thoughts. But
the mission was delayed by 40 minutes, so each experiment
occurred 40 minutes after it was supposed to. He found out later
he'd been successful 35 of 400 times. He said that's too many to
attribute to chance.

After his return, one of the participants leaked the tests to
the press. "I didn't expect it to hit the news the way it did,"
he said.

But it was anothe experience he'd had during his return voyage
that changed his life. Mitchell wrote about it in his 1996
memoir, The Way of the Explorer: "What I experienced during that
three-day trip home was nothing short of an overwhelming sense
of universal connectedness. I actually felt what has been
described as an ecstasy of unity."

Mitchell wrote that he felt "a sense that our presence as space
travelers, and the existence of the universe itself, was NOT
ACCIDENTAL, but that there was An intelligent process at work.
I perceived the universe as in some way conscious."

A year and a half later, in 1972, Mitchell left NASA and the
Navy. The Apollo program was done, the shuttle was a decade away
and "I didn't want to fly a desk," he said. The more he thought
about the epiphany he'd had in space, the more he felt he had to
do something with it.

"I had to find out. What's it all about? It led me to think:
What we in science are modeling is incomplete and possibly
flawed. Let's go find out."

He began researching mystical literature, including that of the
Hindu and Buddhist religions. There, he came across Samadhi. The
Sanskrit word refers to a state of consciousness and total
unity; an individualism but also a oneness. He found what he had
experienced is discussed in virtually every culture and
religion. Mitchell argues that ESP, clairvoyance - getting
thoughts from nature - and other supposedly supernatural feats
are within the capabilities of every person.

"It would appear most of the so-called mystical and spiritual
experiences these people have been having forever are part of
the quantum properties of every living organism," he said. So in
January 1973 he founded the Institute of Noetic Sciences in
California (noetic is from the Greek word for mind). The
nonprofit organization, which numbers among its members
scientists, philosophers and religious scholars, explores the
scientific foundations of psychic and spiritual events. He still
serves as an adviser and sits on its board of directors.

His goal was to take such concepts out of the realm of the far-
out and "bring them into scientific perspective."

Personal Turmoil
Even as Mitchell seeks spiritual peace, his
personal life at times has been anything but peaceful.

Just before leaving NASA, Mitchell, in the middle of divorcing
his first wife, Louise, met Anita Rettig, a publicist at Walt
Disney World. They married in 1972 and he adopted her three
children. Later, they moved to Palm Beach County, where Anita
had friends. Mitchell hooked up with Generoso Pope, publisher of
The National Enquirer and other tabloids based at the time in
Lantana. Mitchell's job was to coordinate with his connections
in the psychic world. "It didn't last too long," he said.

Mitchell's marriage to Anita ended in divorce in 1984 after he
had an affair with Sheilah Ledbetter, a former Playboy model.
Ledbetter filed a paternity suit against Mitchell which proved
in 1986 that he had fathered a son with her. They married in
1989 and divorced 10 years later. For now, Mitchell lives off
his naval pension, his book royalties and his lectures. He also
stays in touch with his colleagues.

"For 3,000 years, we've been asking: Who are we? How did we get
here? Where are we going?" he said. "Space exploration is about
that. And we'll keep doing it."

-----

Ed Mitchell on:

The Challenger And Columbia Disasters: Over the last 20 years,
NASA settled into workaday space missions: important, but not
exciting. Ground the shuttle, after it's finished building the
International Space Station. But then, do new manned missions to
explore the moon and Mars.

NASA Then And Now: "When I was working with NASA in the early
1960s, this was the most dedicated, driven, together, 'Gonna do
it,' motivated team of people you're ever going to encounter.
That high motivation lasted up through the beginnings of the
Apollo program... We weren't ready scientifically yet to go out
into deep space.

But we did it because it was a political imperative. And it
worked. But once we'd done that, it's, 'Ho, hum, what have you
done now?' And by the early 1970s, when we were halfway through
the lunar landings, the climate in NASA was becoming
bureaucratic. I've said facetiously we had to fill out forms in
triplicate just to go to the bathroom."

President Bush's Recent Mars Mission Proposal: "I'm sure we will
(go) in due course. I personally think this current initiative
is an election year ploy. I don't want to diminish the notion of
going to the moon and Mars. It's a powerful notion and we will
do it sooner or later. The question is timing and motivation.
The budget isn't near what it's going to take." Also, must be an
international effort "and we're not anywhere close to doing it."

Life On Other Planets: It would be far more IRrational to
believe Earth is the ONLY SPOT in the universe with intelligent
life. Life elsewhere in this solar system, now or ever? No. We
know enough about those planets to make it highly unlikely they
supported anything more sophisticated than the equivalent of
algae.

Whether Aliens Have Visited Earth: Has no first-hand experience
but is convinced.

Hostile? "Not that I'm aware."

People who claim they were abducted by aliens? "Something has
happened to them. The jury's still out about what happened."
Can't dismiss one theory that aliens are collecting
terrestrial DNA for research.

A Government Cover-Up Of UFOs: "That's putting it mildly. We've
been lied to and covered up. It was a military rationale 50
years ago. Now it's a bureaucratic morass. I doubt if higher-
ups even know what the right answers are."

Why a cover up at the beginning? "It would rattle our
foundations."

AREA 51, the secret military base in Nevada where scientists
study crashed alien spacecraft and their crews: Was briefed,
even recently, by "old timers" who were there, "but I can't say
by whom."

The Roswell Incident, in which aliens, some alive, were
recovered after a July 1947 crash: "It was valid. I've been
briefed."

Erich Von D=E4niken, whose many books theorize early Biblical
passages and folk stories actually described visits by aliens:
"It's pretty far out. There may be a kernel of truth."

Was mankind genetically engineered by other civilizations or
originally immigrants from another planet? "I have not seen
validation for that."

Whether space flight will ever be as workaday as in Star Trek:
"It's inevitable. Yes. By the end of this century. Out of our
solar system. Provided we don't destroy ourselves."

-----

More On Edgar Dean Mitchell:

Born: Sept. 17, 1930, Hereford, Texas. Raised in Artesia, N.M.

Education: Bachelor of Science, Industrial Management, Carnegie
Institute of Technology, 1952. Bachelor of Science, Aeronautical
Engineering, U.S. Naval Postgraduate School, 1961. Doctor of
Science, Aeronautics and Astronautics, Massachusetts Institute
of Technology, 1964. Military: U.S. Navy, 1952-1972.
NASA: 1966-1972. Lunar module commander, Apollo 14, Jan. 31-Feb.
9, 1971.

Feb. 5: became sixth of 12 men to walk on moon. Crewmates:
commander Alan B. Shepard, Jr. (died 1998); command module pilot
Stuart A. Roosa (died 1994).

Awards: Presidential Medal of Freedom, Navy Distinguished Medal,
three NASA Group Achievement Awards. Inducted to Space Hall of
Fame, 1979, Astronaut Hall of Fame, 1998. Founder, Institute of
Noetic Sciences. Co-founder, Association of Space Explorers.
Author, Psychic Exploration, 1974; The Way of the Explorer, 1996
(revised 2001).









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             Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Williams

From: Walt Williams <walt_williams.nul>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 06:56:06 +0000
Fwd Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 16:20:12 -0500
Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Williams


Hello All,

Another thought has struck me about the digital image and your
last post Amy & website. There are so many factors which can
affect the appearance of an object...

Back in 1998 while I was studying 'orbs' (Amy I simulated these
objects using small shiny beads of a known size dropped in-front
of camera while snapping shots in a psychorama). To support my
experiments I engineered a two axis digital imaging system which
was controlled by homebrew software I wrote. I was interested to
try to determine where in coordinate space 'orbs' were
positioned at time of image capture. I found certain mfr's
camera models store additional useful information with each
digital image. I employed Canon A5Z's for my experiments and was
able to access various interesting camera settings which are
auto-set by camera sensors via embedded microcontroller during
image acquisition and then stored in compact flash (CF) with
each acquired image. Amy, your note about 'Gibb's effect' was
news to me, however I suspect that it is the same thing as
envelope compression loss which if one has option might preclude
using RAW data format, i.e., no compression. Back to point
regarding camera 'science' data. Flash density (energy stuffed
into flash-tube), focus depth, exposure time and ambient light
level was stored with each image in CF, there was other stuff
too, but I don't recall?, in addition to manual camera settings
such as resolution and other modes, etc. Maybe Kodak cameras
also store this type information?

Canon provides developers with software
development kit (SDK) for their cameras.

These days I don't have time to drill-down to this level of
investigation, who knows, maybe somebody out there will be
interested to squeeze the stone? If the camera uses Cf, if the
traffic engineer still has the images stored on the camera/CF
that type data might still be available....camera model and a
call to Kodak developer support?

Best Wishes,

Walt Williams,

Director
Search for ExtraTerrestrial Visitation (SETV)
Northridge California, 91367, USA
http://www.setv.org

walt_williams.nul
===================================







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                     Re: Review Of Sight Unseen - Sandow

From: Greg Sandow <greg.nul>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 09:53:03 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 16:21:11 -0500
Subject: Re: Review Of Sight Unseen - Sandow


>From: Josh Goldstein <lovolution.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 01:21:05 -0800
>Subject: Re: Review Of Sight Unseen

>In terms of the symbols abductees have reported, I wonder if
>Budd has had them looked at from various perspectives. What I
>am going to say does not concern the validity of abductees. I
>am wondering if these symbols have been examined by
>professionals who study symbols.

As far as I know, Budd hasn't had this done. He certainly
should. I'd hoped this was one approach the JUFOS study would
have pursued.


Greg Sandow








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                      Re: The Beveridge UFO - Stanford

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 11:23:13 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 16:25:28 -0500
Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO - Stanford


>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 16:42:17 -0500
>Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO

<snip>

>I demand a public apology for the way you have spoken to me,
>and as for _your_ 'alleged' credentials, I await copies.

No need to send me copies, as I am inclined to accept what you
said. As to apology, you have spoken much more harshly to me at
times, but I have never demanded an apology from you. Also, few
respond well to angry demands, and I am among them.

In fact, by now, you are surely aware that what Errol first
posted from me concerning you was something entirely accidental
because it was sent before reviewing it for 'cooling' or even
spell checking. I notified Errol of that accident (as he can
tell you), but he had already posted it when I sent him the
'cooler' version which I see posted this morning. (Thanks,
Errol.)

I don't know about you, but I sometimes get upset (as yesterday)
with someone's posting, hastily write a nasty to semi-nasty
response, then think better of it after some cooling and try to
prepare and then send a gentler, kinder version. That is what I
intended to do yesterday, but I accidentally hit the send button
instead of the file (then, the save for later editing) and the
thing didn't even ask me for a spell check (as evident in my
abundant typos and incorrect spellings) but just sent it off to
the list. I didn't even realize what had happened until I went
to find the unedited missive to further work on it. That's when
I realized what had happened and notified Errol, but it was too
late.

You may notice, John, that in the edited version I didn't
question your education, having by then cooled my response to
your post(s) and checked some earlier, saved material and
realizing there was no reason to doubt your education in that
area (but thanks for correcting my inadvertent questioning on
that), even though I still question whether you were right about
pixel drop-out.

In your angry post today, you demand my credentials. I really
don't owe you any explanation,

 but because it has been brought up on-List, I shall explain: My
credentials are only in my scientific achievements, such as the
work I mentioned in my inadvertent posting (yesterday) and the
expanded and edited one Errol posted today. Surely you have read
my posts over the months stating that although I have educated
myself by reading much technical and scientific material on
subjects as wide as plasma physics to paleontology and regularly
read the journals Nature, Science, Meteoritics and Planetary
Science, and even the popularized Science News (because it is
broad-spectrum and references important technical papers), I am
proud to say that academically (formally) I have only a high
school education.

Why am I proud of that?(!) Because many people with only a high
school education stop educating themselves then and there, but I
did not do so. My family was financially very poor because I
father twice had to twice spend many years in tuberculosis
sanatoriums and so we had money to help only one of us identical
twins through college. We chose Rex to go because he was
clearly set on eventually getting a Ph.D. in psychology (which
he got, even going straight from his B.S. degree to a Ph.D. with
no masters degree needed in between and with honors from the
University of Texas, Austin.), while, as to me, I had, since
seventh grade, wanted to become an aerospace engineer designing
better propulsion systems for space travel, but my four-witness
close encounter -- within six feet (about two meters) -- with
an estimated forty-foot (about twelve meters) oblate spheroid
made me quite confused of what I should study in college. UFO
propulsion became the 'apple of my eye', and I decided to do
instrument studies of UFOs and pursued related private studies
and went on to found Project Starlight International in 1964.

(Please, List members, do not confuse my genuine and original
work with Stephen Greer's copycat and notorious "Project
Starlight".)

I am proud to say that by 1976, under my direction and with the
generous support of a few well-to-do-bachelors, the project had
assembled the finest array of optical and electronic instruments
ever assembled privately to record UFO optical images (including
light spectra) and electromagnetic and gravitic phenomena
associated with UFOs. We then went on to successfully use those
instruments in the field with well-documented results even
better than I had expected. That work is on-going, despite
erroneous claims by some that it ceased when I moved to Maryland
in February, 1986, and work toward publication of results (with
consultation from physicists, astrophysicists, and aerospace
engineers) is in progress.

Of course, I am also proud of my achievements in paleontology
(described in the earlier postings) which prove that a
dedicated, intelligent person can make major scientific finds,
write good scientific papers, and get published in top-level,
refereed scientific journals and publications even with only a
high school diploma. Fortunately, science does not depend on a
Ph.D. (but that helps, of course) or even a B.S. or a Master's
degree, but upon whether one is really doing meaningful science
or not and knows how to properly discuss and publish it.

I believe that the same can be done in scientific UFOlogy, and I
hope to prove it before very long. I do not believe that
mainstream science is as close-minded to good UFO evidence as
some on this list seem to feel. But scientists are 'political
animals', too, so it's not only what you say, but how you say
it, that counts with that establishment. One must 'speak their
language', and my writing of paleontology papers has been a good
practice at learning the idiom. Let's see what happens.

This may not make you feel any better about me, John Velez, but
I hope so. You see, I agree with a heck of a lot of the things
you say on this List and even with some of the complaints you
make. I note that in at least one way we're alike: We both
tend to 'shot from the hip'. But it would be nice if we can
restrain ourselves from shooting at each other, because I think
we're both fairly good shots. :)


Best Wishes,

Ray Stanford








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                       Re: The Beveridge UFO - Ledger

From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 12:25:13 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 16:27:23 -0500
Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO - Ledger


>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
>Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 01:32:17 -0500
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO

<snip>

>But, let's face it, that is the Xtreme Xplanation. Before we
>make the flying ET leap we must be certain that neither bug nor
>bird not film flaw - nor a chance combination of all three(?)
>figure that one out(!) - could explain the image

>And, by the way, I'm not convinced its a bird or a bug! But I
>have yet to take the flying leap!!

Hi Bruce,

That's the problem isn't it? We are missing some information to
make a final determination-distance. It can be argued either
way - bug or craft.

Is there any way to make a determination of distance by using
focal length. I haven't looked yet [and I don't expect to find
it either] but perhaps a shadow on the ground might be in the
picture. The terrain doesn't leave much to be desired. It's a
grassy field, but not impossible.

Like you I have no problem with very high Mach numbers for UFOs
since there have been reports of such since the late 40s. The
bug hypothesis needs a speedy culprit to nail it down. Anyone
got one?

Is there and entomologist on this List?

Best,

Don Ledger









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                      Re: The Beveridge UFO - Stanford

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 11:38:05 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 16:29:36 -0500
Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO - Stanford


>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 01:22:02 -0400
>Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO

<snip>

>Many have been rushing in to show off their expertise re JPEG,
>MPEG and their vast experience of dealing with it. and is
>probably a satisfying way in which to stroke egos, but it
>doesn't do much for the study of the image does it? I want to
>see more and proof to boot. If this is an IFO, prove it. Don't
>just throw words around.

Hold it right there, Don. The burden of proof is on anyone who
alleges that this highly ambiguous image shows something truly
anomalous, not upon those who propose straight-forward
explanations. How so? Well, prosaic events such a bug flights,
that might have caused the image are quite common. UFO events
are, in fact, quite rare.

And, don't be fooled by thinking that reports by locals who have
heard of this photo and report seeing things they did not
understand at different times and not at that place have any
relevance. They do not. Some instances cases involving fake UFO
photos, with people hearing about them and thinking they are
real, have naturally caused the innocent (and not so innocent)
to report things to the media they might never otherwise have
reported.


Ray Stanford

"You know my method. It is founded upon the observance of
trifles." -- Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery








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                      Re: The Beveridge UFO - Stanford

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 11:43:11 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 16:33:02 -0500
Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO - Stanford


>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 01:46:36 -0400
>Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO

>>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 12:51:46 -0500
>>Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO

>>>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 14:57:16 -0500
>>>Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO

>Jeez, you two... pistols at dawn?

>Tone it down a bit. It's only a damn UFO/BUG shot.

>And there's no need to fight over me.

Hi Don,

That's probably sage advice, Don, even though we were really not
fighting over a nice guy like you but over our reactions to each
other. Call it 'The Shoot-out At The Not-So-O.K. Corral'.  :o)


Every Good Wish,

Ray Stanford

"You know my method. It is founded upon the observance of
trifles." -- Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery








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                      Re: The Beveridge UFO - Stanford

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 11:54:37 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 16:34:10 -0500
Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO - Stanford


>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
>Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 01:32:17 -0500
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO

>>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 12:51:46 -0500
>>Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO

>>>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>>
>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 14:57:16 -0500
>>>Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO

<snip>

>But, let's face it, that is the Xtreme Xplanation. Before we
>make the flying ET leap we must be certain that neither bug nor
>bird not film flaw - nor a chance combination of all three(?)

<snip>

Hi Bruce,

Thanks for that intelligent analysis and discussion of the
Beveridge image. I follow your reasoning exactly and personally
think it points to the most 'bugging' of explanations.  :)


Ray Stanford








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                      Re: The Beveridge UFO - Stanford

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 12:20:31 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 16:36:32 -0500
Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO - Stanford


>From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 06:57:03 -0600
>Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO

>>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 01:46:36 -0400
>>Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO

>>Jeez, you two... pistols at dawn?

>>Tone it down a bit. It's only a damn UFO/BUG shot.

>>And there's no need to fight over me.

>Well - It's all your fault Don, what with all the suggestive
>clothing and heavy lip gloss. Your come-hither looks and nine
>inch heeled CFMS aren't fooling anybody either. I've been
>tempted to fight over you myself (and _have_ when I think about
>it - LOL!).

>But yeah - lets all step back, take a deep breath, and remember
>how much we entertain the CSICOPians (and retrograde CSICOPians)
>when we do this.

>A thought.

Personally I suspect it's a 'pain-in-the-ass' to CSICOPians when
they see that at least some pro-UFO people are not beating our
chests over ambiguous things in photos that look like they could
easily be explained as speeding bugs, and suggesting they are
domed discs or something to waste time over pondering endlessly
in hopes of some great revelation.


Ray Stanford

"You know my method.  It is founded upon the observance of
trifles." -- Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery








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                     Re: Review Of Sight Unseen - Velez

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 13:37:09 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 16:40:42 -0500
Subject: Re: Review Of Sight Unseen - Velez


>From: Josh Goldstein <lovolution.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 01:21:05 -0800
>Subject: Re: Review Of Sight Unseen

>>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 13:42:00 -0500
>>Subject: Re: Review Of Sight Unseen

<snip>

Hi Josh, All,

You wrote:

>Jung Institute may  also be able to interpret the symbols
>psychologically. They can tell whether they contain what are
>known as archetypal symbols. I am not implying anything
>regarding the actual source of the symbols but I think they
>deserve a multi discipline examination.

The last time I spoke to Stuart Appelle he indicated that they
intended to put the samples through a multi-disciplinary
analysis. Among the experts he wanted to submit the samples to
were psychologists, although I cannot tell you how many, if any,
were going to be Jungians who would be observing the material
from that unique perspective. You'd have to ask him about that.
It's a good idea though.

>Certain baselines would
>need to be defined, such as how many people remembered these
>symbols directly or under hypnosis, etc.

What difference would it make as long as what is being recalled
is strikingly/compellingly similar or identical? Another more
important thing that needs to be determined is; if randomly
chosen individuals were asked to 'invent' an alphabet from
imagination, would they produce something similar or identical
to what the abductees have produced. Although it is important, I
think knowing if 'anybody' can come up with those symbols would
be a much stronger 'base-line' than a break-down of how many
recalled the 'alien alphabet' consciously, without the aid of
hypnosis.

The kind of inquiry I just suggested would reveal if your
Jungian 'collective unconscious' idea has any merit. It just may
be that when you ask anybody to 'invent' an alphabet from
imagination, you get something similar to what the abductees
produced.

We need to know if that is the case. _That_ would be a good
'base-line' to move out from. Once the uniqueness of the symbols
is established, further studies can be entered into with
confidence that they are not just running up and down blind
alleys.

>What do you think of this idea? Do you know whether Budd has
>taken that approach or whether he would be willing to do so?
>Would you be willing to develop it?

Greg Sandow got Budd to submit some samples to Stuart Appelle at
Cornell University for study. That much has already been
accomplished and no 'small feat' that was! The only reason the
study was never performed has to do with JUFOS being in dire
financial straits more than any thing else. Now that the
publication is back up and running and a venue exists for peer
review of the findings, I see no reason why it cannot be put
back on the agenda.

Greg, can you contact Stuart and inquire about the possibility
of reviving the abductee symbol analysis? It would be great to
hear what some experts have to say about them. Speaking as one
of the contributing subjects, my curiosity is piqued.

Good thoughts, Josh. I hope your suggestion is taken into
consideration and that at least one or two Jungians are included
in the list of experts to be consulted.


Regards,

John Velez
ET Scribe <G> ;)









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   Feb > Feb 12

                Vancouver Tops In UFO Sightings Across Canada

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 09:54:30 -0800
Fwd Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 07:33:29 -0500
Subject: Vancouver Tops In UFO Sightings Across Canada


Source: The Seattle Post Intelligencer - Washington

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/aplocal_story.asp?category=6420&slug=CAN%20U
FO%20Report

February 11, 2004

Vancouver tops in reported UFO sightings across Canada

The Associated Press

WINNIPEG, Manitoba -- Vancouver and Toronto topped the list of
Canadian cities with sightings of unidentified flying objects,
according to an annual report.

According to the 2003 Canadian UFO Survey released Tuesday by
Ufology Research of Manitoba, there were 673 UFO sightings across
Canada last year, 39 percent more than in 2002. Of the sightings
reported last year, 41 were in Vancouver and 34 in Toronto.

"It's still puzzling why we're seeing an increase," survey
author Chris Rutkowski said. "It could be that more people are
willing to admit they've seen a UFO because they see other
people admitting it. The ridicule barrier is almost completely
eliminated."

Of the total sightings, 17 percent remain unexplained.

"We have enough information to judge that the other objects were
a star or an aircraft," Rutkowski said.









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               Many Unanswered Questions About Nigerian Plane

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 09:58:42 -0800
Fwd Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 07:35:11 -0500
Subject: Many Unanswered Questions About Nigerian Plane



Source: AllAfrica.Com

http://allafrica.com/stories/200402110201.html

The Many Unanswered Questions About Goshen Beach Plane Crash

February 10, 2004
Posted to the web February 11, 2004

Nigerians were Friday, January 30, 2004, jolted by reports of
another plane crash in Lagos, four years after the EAS crash
that killed former Sports Minister, Ishaya Mark Aku, and close
to a hundred others. The incident which had since generated so
much controversy in the nation's aviation circles was reported
to have happened at Goshen Beach at about 3:00pm that fateful
day.

News of the crash of the aircraft suspected to be a 20-seat
capacity Beach 1900 as described by eyewitnesses, first filtered
out of the radio wave, setting officials of parastatals in the
aviation ministry and aviation correspondents on their toes.
Earlier reports about the crash were sketchy, and efforts to get
details from air traffic controllers, who should know, and local
operators at the Murtala Mohammed Airport, Ikeja, yielded no
result as at 7:00pm that evening. However, officials of the
Federal Airports Authority of Nigeria (FAAN); Nigerian Airspace
Management Agency (NAMA); Nigerian Civil Aviation Authority
(NCAA) and the Fire Service at the airport responded promptly to
the crash site with their ambulance vehicles for search and
rescue of the aircraft and its occupants.

Officials of South Africa-based Critical Rescue International
and Nigerian Red Cross were also on hand to assist in the
operation. But for some minutes of aerial hovering over the
purported crash spot by military helicopter, not much of search
and rescue operation was conducted on the day. The reason for
this is simply lack of search and rescue equipment. Therefore,
everyone who thronged the crash site waited patiently for some
four hours to see if the Beach waters could throw up any
evidence either in terms of aircraft parts or personal effects
of those on board.

But while the speculation game as to aircraft type and identity
of operator continued, experts in the industry wondered what
could have been responsible for such a crash, as the day's
weather was seen as one of the best for flight operation.
Because of the axis the crash purportedly happened, air traffic
controllers, pilots and other aviation experts were quick to
conclude that the ill-fated aircraft was on its way to Lagos
from the Niger Delta Zone, preferably Warri. Suspicion of
operator was then narrowed down only to companies operating the
Beach 1900 in the country, while contacts were being made to
Osubi Airstrip in Warri, Eket and Escravos by officials of NAMA
to ascertain if any aircraft took off from any of those bases
that had not arrived at its destination. This became necessary
because air traffic controllers (ATC) had confirmed that they
had no dossiers of the aircraft, departure and arrival points in
their records. That Friday ended with no meaningful search and
rescue operation.

The environmental sanitation exercise of the following day did
not dampen the anxiety of aviation parastatal officials and
other members of the public who, Vanguard learnt, got to the
purported crash site before the exercise started at 7:00am. It
is necessary to state that much of what transpired this day was
more of keeping vigil at the Beach front for clues than actual
search and rescue. The only sign of activity in the Beach waters
this Saturday morning was the effort of a private search and
rescue outfit, Critical Response International (CRI), which boat
hovered around suspected crash spot in search of clues about the
crash. This went on for hours, as officials of aviation
parastatals at the Beach stood helpless, relying on information
brought to the shore by the 5-man search team.

At about 11:30am, the team, having almost given up on further
search, came with the information that it had found traces of
aviation oil, which they tried ceaselessly to track the exact
spot of the crash, but to no avail. Their frustration became
noticeable when at about 1:30pm, the officials mainly from FAAN,
the NCAA and NAMA had consultations on how to reach the aviation
minister in Abuja to liaise with the Naval High Command to
authorise movement of their equipment to the crash site,
especially with insistence from construction workers at Goshen
Beach Estate and CRI that an aircraft came down into the beach.
Before the close of the day, the aviation ministry in Abuja had
issued a statement, saying no plane crashed into Goshen Beach.
The statement signed by the chief press secretary to the
minister, Mrs. Ngozi Okwuogu, stated inter alia: "Information of
the reported aircraft was said to have been triggered by an SOS
message received from Econet message received from Econet Crisis
Management Centre, indicating that an aircraft crashed around
Goshen Estate, near Maroko.

"Immediately, all the relevant agencies: The Nigerian Civil
Aviation Authority (NCAA), Nigerian Airspace Management Agency
(NAMA), the Federal Airports Authority of Nigeria (FAAN), the
Accident Investigation Prevention Bureau (AIPB) of the ministry
were on the spot of the reported scene to ascertain the truth of
the matter before announcing same to the public.

"National Emergency Management Agency (NEMA) Rescue Co-
ordination Centre was immediately activated and series of checks
with an Air Traffic Control (ATC) unit at both Murtala Mohammed
Airport (MMA) and all other airports in the South Eastern sector
of the country did not reveal any missing aircraft."

The statement added that checks with Accra, Cotonou, Douala and
Malabo also did not reveal any information as to any missing
aircraft, even as it stated that the terminal approach radar,
communication and navigational facilities at the Murtala
Mohammed Airport (MMA) were all serviceable and in use at the
material time. Suffice to say that the Saturday ended without
any meaningful search and rescue operation because of lack of
equipment. It is necessary to state that the government closed
further search and rescue operation that Saturday.

From Sunday, the Goshen Beach became the isolated terrain that
it is. When Vanguard called there Sunday, the beach bore traces
of inactivity, as no one was found on ground. Stakeholders in
the aviation ministry were a bit surprised that the ministry's
position that there was no plane crash was hasty, especially as
twenty-four hours were not enough to conduct thorough search and
rescue operation to foreclose any further operation as indicated
by the minister, Mallam Isa Yuguda, at a press conference called
in Lagos to put the lid on further search and rescue operation.

Observers contend that even if no aircraft actually crashed into
the beach, the federal government needed to convince Nigerians
that nothing of such happened, and that the only way to do this
was to carry out thorough search and rescue. In this line of
thought is safety watchdog, the Nigerian Aviation Safety
Initiative (NASI) which, in a statement, warned government
against foreclosing and treating as a non-issue the reported
sighting of the crash of an unidentified flying object (UFO) at
the beach. " We view as premature any attempt to put the lid on
the search at this time, especially against the categorical
statement of Jenin Bowen, a member of the search team from
Critical Response International who insists after preliminary
search that there is an aircraft in the waters. Indeed, unless
the sighting can be rationally explained or the state of mind of
the eyewitnesses called, NASI believes that the government has a
responsibility in ensuring that the mystery surrounding the
crashed UFO is unraveled.

The fact that no aircraft is missing even makes it more
demanding for government to resolve the mystery, certainly it
should be viewed from the angle of national security," the group
said in the statement signed by Capt. Jerry Agbeyegbe, its
Executive Secretary and founder. As posed by NASI and other
aviation watchers, where did the aircraft depart from? Who is
the operator and who were the occupants? What was its mission?
Why was there no flight plan filed as required by aviation
regulations?

These are questions begging for answers from the nation's
aviation authorities and security agencies, as what transpired
on the fateful Friday, though controversial, bothers more on
national security. However, Mallam Yuguda, while wishing away
the crash of any aircraft, had told newsmen at the briefing that
what was mistaken for an aircraft by the construction workers
who claimed to have seen the plane come down were the fragments
of illegal oil barges blown to pieces by men of the Nigerian
Navy same day within the same environment. But watchers of the
aviation sector argued that even if that was what transpired,
the ministry ought to have worked stridently to retrieved such
fragments from the ocean bed to convince the people that there
was no crash of any sort.

They also picked holes in the ministry's argument that contact
with countries within the West African sub-region did not lose
any aircraft days after the purported crash, saying the aircraft
could have been one on illegal mission, stressing that the
owners could never have owned up that their plane was missing.
It was learnt that because of the epileptic nature of the radar
at the Murtala Mohammed Airport in terms of performance, there
had been cases of aircraft straying illegally into the nation's
airspace without being picked by the radar.

It would seem that aviation parastatal officials who claimed to
have conducted search and rescue operation, told the minister
only what they wanted him to know, especially considering the
haste with which he dismissed the crash story as a hoax. The
unease some of the officials felt at every probing question
asked the minister and efforts made to check reporters from
asking more than five questions at that briefing was a pointer
to this direction.

Consequently, so many questions were left unanswered about the
purported crash story. Even before coming to Lagos, Yuguda was
far away in Abuja giving instructions for issuance of a
statement denouncing the story, while nothing in terms of actual
search and rescue operation was going on. Up till the time of
briefing the press on the matter last Wednesday, the minister
was yet to visit the site of the purported plane crash.

He dashed out of Lagos in the same express manner he dashed in.
However, fielding questions from journalists at the briefing,
Mallam Yuguda, who had within twenty-four hours after the
purported crash authorised a statement dismissing the crash,
left room for possibilities of the presence of an aircraft under
the sea bed when he said the federal government had not
foreclosed investigation into the matter.

On claims that traces of aviation oil was found in the Beach
waters, close to the point the aircraft purportedly plunged, the
minister did not explain what steps relevant agencies in the
ministry had taken to ascertain the genuineness of that claim,
neither was he categorical about the fact that the oil
reportedly found by CRI search team was from the fragments of
the illegal oil barge blown by the Navy near the site of the
crash.

"For the sake of convincing Nigerians that there was no crash,
the minister ought to ensure that the fragment of the illegal
barge he claimed to have been mistaken for an aircraft was
brought out of the sea bed at the spot the plane reportedly
crashed, which I understand eyewitnesses have been able to
identify," observed an aviation expert who sought anonymity.

The displeasure of the senate over the manner search and rescue
was carried out by the relevant government agencies further
raised questions about the exercise, as that currently remains
the lacuna as to whether there was a crash of an air plane or
not. It also further called to question Nigeria's emergency
response capabilities. Such capabilities were lacking in the ADC
crash of 1996 in Lagos; EAS crash of 2001 in Kano, and have
again been displayed in the case of the Goshen Beach crash
incident, which yet remains a mystery because of shoddy search
and rescue operation.









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                        Re: The Beveridge UFO - Sensi

From: Darren Sensi <mrsensi.nul>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 19:45:03 +0100 (CET)
Fwd Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 07:37:16 -0500
Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO - Sensi


>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 01:22:02 -0400
>Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO - Ledger


>No Steve and Amy I don't see that same degree of Gibb's effect
>in other parts of the photo or mosquitoing-or ringing if you
>will as is surrounding the "object" and I'm betting no one else
>does either.


Hello Don,

I originally posted because i saw the effect around the object
as a typical noise/artifact that i see in almost any jpeg and i
didn't want to see it become accepted as some kind of physical
effect until someone had pointed that out. Try looking at the
furthest left branch on the tree in the foreground directly
below and to the right of the object it has almost the exact
same combination of mosquito noise and tiling artifacts as those
that keep getting pointed out around the object itself.

>Many have been rushing in to show off their expertise re JPEG,
>MPEG and their vast experience of dealing with it. and is
>probably a satisfying way in which to stroke egos, but it
>doesn't do much for the study of the image does it? I want to
>see more and proof to boot. If this is an IFO, prove it. Don't
>just throw words around.

I tried to explain as clearly as possible using known terms to
avoid any confusion on exactly what effects i was pointing out.
I never claimed to be an expert and the only satisfaction gained
was that of knowing i had brought to everyone's attention
something which might have hindered a fair analysis of the
photo. I agree this is far from being an IFO and i don't believe
that this is a bird or insect either but i am open minded to
both these things as possible explanations to.

>Dan Bright's contrast and color enhancements seems to bring out
>some detail and even suggests a wing, but it looks much to small
>a surface area to sustain lift. A bee's wing area to body weight
>ratio is bad enough but even its wings are larger proportionally
>than what I see in the color enhancements.

I agree the "wing" is definatly not in proportion with the size
of what would have to be the body and if a semi translucent wing
is held at the right angle to produce a glazing reflection then
it would be highlighting the entire area of that wing because of
it's flat surface. I can't see any legs or body segments either
and if in flight a beetle has it's wing cases open .LOL so there
would be no smooth areas on the object at all except perhaps the
head?







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                          Secrecy News -- 02/11/04

From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood.nul>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 14:00:08 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 07:39:41 -0500
Subject: Secrecy News -- 02/11/04


SECRECY NEWS
from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy
Volume 2004, Issue No. 17
February 11, 2004


**      INTELLIGENCE OVERSIGHT IN THE BIBLE
**      CRS ON HOMELAND SECURITY
**      FRD ON TERRORISM AND CRIME
**      JASON ON NEUTRINOS AND THE GLOBAL GRID
**      LEAK PROBE PERCOLATES ALONG


INTELLIGENCE OVERSIGHT IN THE BIBLE

It is often noted that espionage is an ancient enterprise with
roots at least as old as the Bible.

But what is rarely if ever recalled is that intelligence
oversight and accountability are *also* part of the Biblical
record, and that the Deity imposed a severe penalty upon those
who distorted intelligence and inflated threats.

A Washington Times op-ed writer today attempted to defend the
CIA by citing the first half of the Biblical precedent.

"Some Americans find in the CIA a convenient scapegoat, failing
to recognize that throughout history espionage has been used to
protect peoples from their enemies. Ancient Israel had spies:
'Moses sent them to spy out the land of Canaan [to see] whether
the cities they dwell in are camps or strongholds.' (Numbers
13:17-19)," wrote Ernest W. Lefever of the Ethics and Public
Policy Center in the Washington Times, Feb. 11, p. A18.

What Dr. Lefever failed to mention is that the spies sent by
Moses came back with a hyped National Intelligence Estimate,
with unhappy results.

"The land, through which we have gone, to spy it out, is a land
that devours its inhabitants... and we seemed to ourselves like
grasshoppers, and so we seemed to them." (Numbers 13: 32-33).
Only Joshua and Caleb dissented from this majority view.

Because they wittingly or unwittingly exaggerated the
capabilities of the Canaanites, God sentenced the spies to
death, displaying no judicial deference to the intelligence
agencies.

"The men who brought an unfavorable report about the land died
by a plague before the Lord," we are told.

"But Joshua son of Nun and Caleb son of Jephunneh alone remained
alive, of those men who went to spy out the land." (Numbers 14:
36-37).


CRS ON HOMELAND SECURITY

There are quite a few reports of the Congressional Research
Service that present authoritative surveys of an issue coupled
with insightful, expert analysis; others are perfunctory
compilations of material readily available in the public domain.

But all of them are subject to the arbitrary secrecy policy
championed by Rep. Bob Ney (R-OH), chairman of the House
Committee on House Administration, and embraced by the CRS
leadership, which prohibits direct public access to CRS reports.

To defy that secrecy policy, and to make those reports directly
available to the public, is therefore a virtuous act even when
the reports themselves are of uneven quality.

A selection of recent CRS reports on Homeland Security and
related topics is here:

"Homeland Security: The Presidential Coordination Office,"
updated February 4, 2004:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/RL31148.pdf

"Homeland Security: Department Organization and Management --
Implementation Phase," updated February 4, 2004:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/RL31751.pdf

"Pipeline Security: An Overview of Federal Activities and
Current Policy Issues," updated February 5, 2004:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/RL31990.pdf

"Ricin: Technical Background and Potential Role in Terrorism,"
updated February 4, 2004:

http://www.fas.org/irp/crs/RS21383.pdf

"Border Security and Unmanned Aerial Vehicles," January 2, 2004:

http://www.fas.org/irp/crs/RS21698.pdf

"Maritime Security: Overview of Issues," updated December 5,
2003:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/RS21079.pdf

"Port and Maritime Security: Background and Issues for
Congress," updated December 5, 2003:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/RL31733.pdf

"Air Cargo Security," updated September 11, 2003:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/RL32022.pdf

"Comparisons of U.S. and Foreign Military Spending: Data from
Selected Public Sources," January 28, 2004:

http://www.fas.org/man/crs/RL32209.pdf


FRD ON TERRORISM AND CRIME

Unlike the Congressional Research Service, the Federal Research
Division of the Library of Congress does make some of its
reports directly available to the public.

The following two reports were prepared by FRD for the DCI Crime
and Narcotics Center (thanks to GP, www.resourceshelf.com for
pointing these out):

"Nations Hospitable to Organized Crime and Terrorism," October
2003:

http://www.fas.org/irp/cia/product/frd1003.pdf

"Terrorist and Organized Crime Groups in the Tri-Border Area of
South America," July 2003 (a report which has been the subject
of recent news stories):

http://www.fas.org/irp/cia/product/frd0703.pdf


JASON ON NEUTRINOS AND THE GLOBAL GRID

The JASON defense advisory group is another worthy entity that
operates happily outside of public awareness. Two more
previously unpublished JASON reports, somewhat dated but of
possible interest to specialists, are now available here:

"Neutrino Detection Primer," JSR-84-105, March 1988 (2 MB). This
report is intended to provide for non-expert readers a survey of
natural and man-made neutrino sources and a critical review of
various methods which have been proposed for their detection:

http://www.fas.org/irp/agency/dod/jason/neutrino.pdf

"JASON Global Grid Study," JRS-92-100, July 1992 (5 MB). This is
an assessment of the emerging global communications grid, as of
the early 1990s:

http://www.fas.org/irp/agency/dod/jason/grid.pdf


LEAK PROBE PERCOLATES ALONG

The increasing pace of the investigation into the leak of
undercover CIA officer Valerie Plame's identity is raising
expectations that the probe might actually lead to some
conclusive result.

But news reports indicated that some Administration officials
were refusing to sign forms waiving any confidentiality they
might have been granted by journalists.

Rep. Henry Waxman (D-CA) and Rep. John Conyers (D-MI) wrote to
the President yesterday, contending that such officials were not
complying with his explicit direction to comply fully with the
leak investigation. See their February 10 letter here:

http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/2004_cr/h021004.pdf


_______________________________________________
Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the
Federation of American Scientists.

To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to
secrecy_news-request.nul
with "subscribe" in the body of the message.

OR email your request to saftergood.nul

Secrecy News is archived at:
http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html

_______________________
Steven Aftergood
Project on Government Secrecy
Federation of American Scientists
web:  www.fas.org/sgp/index.html
email: saftergood.nul
voice: (202) 454-4691







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   Feb > Feb 12

                       Re: The Beveridge UFO - Hebert

From: Amy Hebert <vanguard.nul>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 13:47:06 -0600
Fwd Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 07:43:03 -0500
Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO - Hebert


>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 01:22:02 -0400
>Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO

>>From: Amy Hebert <vanguard.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 10:33:38 >-0600
>>Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO

<snip>

>No problem with the quick job. And thanks. But what's the rush?
>This is what we are here for, right? Cripes I've seen weeks of
>nonsense on this List about some of the most innocuous
>subjects. I often wonder where Errol finds the patience. My
>apologies here now.

You're welcome, Don. ;>

No rush, Don, I just don't see enough information to do much
with this photograph at this time. Maybe if more evidence or
relavent information is forthcoming, we can do something more by
way of analysis.

>No Steve and Amy I don't see that same degree of Gibb's effect
>in other parts of the photo or mosquitoing-or ringing if you
>will as is surrounding the "object" and I'm betting no one else
>does either.

OK, Don, perhaps this page I just constructed will help
demonstrate the Gibbs effect in reference to the Whittlesea UFO.

http://a-realitycheck.com/whittleseaufo/GibbsEffect.htm

>Many have been rushing in to show off their expertise re JPEG,
>MPEG and their vast experience of dealing with it. and is
>probably a satisfying way in which to stroke egos, but it
>doesn't do much for the study of the image does it? I want to
>see more and proof to boot. If this is an IFO, prove it. Don't
>just throw words around.

I keep putting out and putting out, Don, but still you are not
satisfied (don't tell your wife - joking! ;>). I have provided
models and all kinds of images in support of my contentions, all
you have provided so far are theories, speculation and words.
It's your turn to provide proof of _your_ contentions. ;>

I gave you materials to test your theory about the "envelope"
around the Whittlesea object yet you totally ignored everything.
Please give it a try. ;>You might learn something, we might all
learn something. (I will post the actual unaltered images later
this week - once you have ventured your guesses.) Here is the
URL again:

http://a-realitycheck.com/whittleseaufo/atmosphere.htm

>Amy, you seem to be a bit miffed with my curiosity [and Paul R.
>Hill's] about the surrounding envelope. Since all aircraft abide
>and endure it during flight I believe it a subject worthy of
>exploration. If not with this photo ten perhaps the next.

I'm not "miffed" at all! I've learned so much and continue to
learn.

>Amy, if you and others are tired of this argument - I have a
>mental picture of many bored readers-aloof and using their horse
>tails, on-a-stick, to scare the flies off cow patties - then
>don't waste your time on it.

I'm not bored either. I just don't think there is enough
evidence for a thorough analysis of this photograph at this
time.

>I never said, BTW, that we could determine the power source, but
>there is a real science in aerodynamics dealing with drag
>coefficients and the effect of the boundary layer on the
>aircraft's performance and speed.

>There must be dozens of these types of photos around and I'd be
>real surprised to find MPEG compression problems on some of the
>older silver halide negatives.

MPEG compression will only occur when an image is rendered
digital.

>Lastly, have a close look at your own pics Amy. You had to push
>the contrast to make the effect appear [which doesn't look
>anything like the object blurring incidentally] where in the
>Beveridge photo the blurring is in sharp contrast to the rez in
>the rest of the picture.

OK, Don, I provided the original images from the Whittlesea UFO
photograph with the increased contrast along side. I use various
contrast and adjustments to see some details more clearly. The
effect is there.

>Why do you suppose that dumb little Kodak picked only your "bug"
>to display the Gibbs effect. Ah,ah- motion doesn't count. The
>shutter speed stopped that. Just like it froze the left-side
>light signal blinking back and forth. No Gibbs effect there.

I found some color smearing with the light (see the new web
page). Does anyone know what causes this?

>Dan Bright's contrast and color enhancements seems to bring out
>some detail and even suggests a wing, but it looks much to small
>a surface area to sustain lift. A bee's wing area to body weight
>ratio is bad enough but even its wings are larger proportionally
>than what I see in the color enhancements.

I'll add more on this later. Right now I'm late to work.

Waiting for your guesses about the images I posted. Anyone want
to guess?

>Ain't this fun?

Yes, I'm having great fun!! Really!

A. Hebert

PS - I may have found more shadows to help with analysis. See
last photograph on my new web page.







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                           Humans In MicroGravity

From: Walt Williams <walt_williams.nul>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 13:25:01 +0000
Fwd Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 08:43:17 -0500
Subject: Humans In MicroGravity



Hello All,

I found an interesting paper regarding certain physiological
effects on Humans in 'space', could give clue about some of the
problems ET might have had to resolve.

Text fragment follows:

EXPOSURE TO MICROGRAVITY (=B5G) in space has consistently induced
hemodynamic changes in crew members during spaceflight. One of
the most serious problems among astronauts after spaceflight is
cardiovascular deconditioning. A recent study disclosed that 64%
of the crew members examined suffered from orthostatic
intolerance after spaceflight, i.e., 9 of 14 astronauts could
not complete the 10-min stand test that all of the astronauts
could complete before the flight (2).

For complete paper see:

http://ajpregu.physiology.org/cgi/content/full/277/2/R419


Best Wishes,

Walt Williams

Director
Search for ExtraTerrestrial Visitation (SETV)
Northridge California, 91367, USA
http://www.setv.org

walt_williams.nul
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D





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              Re: Harrassment - Has It Happened To You? - White

From: Eleanor White <eleanor.nul>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 16:41:29 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 08:48:52 -0500
Subject: Re: Harrassment - Has It Happened To You? - White


>From: John Novak <john.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 15:10:39 -0800
>Subject: Re: Harrassment - Has It Happened To You?

<snip>

>After cleaning up the mess, I sat own at my computer to send out
>an urgent email about a UFO event that had taken place over the
>weekend while we were gone. As soon as I hit the "send" button,
>my computer crashed. It crashed so hard that I had to get a
>whole new computer system. Hard drive, processor, modem, video
>card...everything. The entire computer was wiped out. I still
>do not know if that was a legitimate terrorist warning they were
>privy to, or if it was meant to intimidate after thrashing our
>room and computer.

Sounding familiar to this "mind control" harassment veteran.

I once had a PC totally wiped out, as described above, when
before I got my bearings in this arena in the late 90s, I had
just sent an email accusing my former military outfit, the U.S.
Navy, of electronically torturing me. I got a second PC on the
air in 20 minutes, and just as it logged in to the Internet, it
got totalled too.

Clearly, someone has technology available to them _far_ more
advanced than what the average university physics professor
knows about.

>I really began to get scared at this point. Like I said, we had
>just returned from Seattle. While in Seattle, I met up with a
>different researcher who passed me along some very intersting
>information that is now evidence in a class action lawsuit
>agsinst the Federal Reserve (see our website for those details).
>When returning to the ranch, there was a physicist and his wife
>who had been doing research on "free energy" systems amongst
>other technologies with James. After we all talked over what had
>just transpired, he helped me calm down and suggested my wife
>and I go get a meal at the restaurant down the road.

>Sounded like a great plan. However, on the road to the
>restaurant, we began noticing white vans and Chevy suburbans
>passing us by, making sudden u-turns and then following us.

Sounds familiar. In my case it's been a guy who looked like a
clone of Mafia Don Carlo Gambino. Others have had white
'government' vehicles shadow them too.

>All of them had US government license plates. In all, there was
>around 8-10 of these vehicles. Here we are out in the middle of
>nowhere, suddenly getting surrounded by white governement
>vehicles. We pulled off the road once we got the to the
>restaurant and ran inside. We were followed in by a gentleman
>you would call the typical "MIB". Full black suit, tie, dark
>glasses and he continually spoke into what was probably a
>microphone on his sleeve collar. He took a booth across from us
>and never took his eyes from me.

Hey, this is beginning to "feel like home"!

<snip>

>The only thing now I can say may be harrassment is my wife lost
>two jobs since then. Both times it occured right after
>publishing research over my own website.

Oh, _boy_! Is this _ever_ familiar! I've had play-goofy 'agents'
follow me around when searching for a job, saying they knew me
and told them all about 'mind control'. They put on a real show.

One potential employer (who did not hire me) stated that the
play-goofy 'agent' showed up 5 minutes after I left!


Eleanor White







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              Re: Experts Studying ISS Object Photos - Balaskas

From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 16:45:35 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
Fwd Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 08:49:48 -0500
Subject: Re: Experts Studying ISS Object Photos - Balaskas


>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 06:12:47 -0800
>Subject: Experts Studying ISS Object Photos

>Source: Interfax

>http://www.interfax.ru/e/B/0/28.html?id_issue=8672897

<snip>

>An earlier NASA report said that, after checking the engines of
>the Progress supply spaceship, the ISS crew, Russian Alexander
>Kaleri and American Michael Foale, noticed a narrow strip of
>apparently soft material, 20 to 25 centimeters long, that was
>moving away from the station.

>Some specialists believe the object may have been a piece of
>insulation, and others think it may have been part of a ribbon
>fixing something outside the station.

<snip>

Hi Frank!

From the description of this mysterious object, it sounds very
much like the undulating free flying "space snake" that was seen
on previous space missions and even recorded on video by veteran
Shuttle astronaut Story Musgrave. Musgrave also saw this space
snake on at least one previous space flight.

Could near-Earth space be a much stranger place than we could
possibly imagine where such living critters do exist?


Nick Balaskas







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                        Re: The Beveridge UFO - Hall

From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 22:34:35 +0000
Fwd Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 08:51:23 -0500
Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO - Hall


>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 12:20:31 -0500
>Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO

>>From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 06:57:03 -0600
>>Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO

>>>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 01:46:36 -0400
>>>Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO

>>>Jeez, you two... pistols at dawn?

>>>Tone it down a bit. It's only a damn UFO/BUG shot.

>>>And there's no need to fight over me.

>>Well - It's all your fault Don, what with all the suggestive
>>clothing and heavy lip gloss. Your come-hither looks and nine
>>inch heeled CFMS aren't fooling anybody either. I've been
>>tempted to fight over you myself (and _have_ when I think about
>>it - LOL!).

>>But yeah - lets all step back, take a deep breath, and remember
>>how much we entertain the CSICOPians (and retrograde CSICOPians)
>>when we do this.

>>A thought.

>Personally I suspect it's a 'pain-in-the-ass' to CSICOPians when
>they see that at least some pro-UFO people are not beating our
>chests over ambiguous things in photos that look like they could
>easily be explained as speeding bugs, and suggesting they are
>domed discs or something to waste time over pondering endlessly
>in hopes of some great revelation.

>Ray Stanford

Coming from the "Great Revelator" who in the past has, contacted
aliens through his mental powers, communicated with the
"Brothers," regaled us with the "secret of Fatima," etc., this
is most amusing. He sure has wasted our time with his "psychic"
pretensions, and now masquerades as the Most Scientific of Us
All.

Sorry; not being a good Brother I have broken my monkish vow of
silence, and guess that I will have to do penance.


 - Dick







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                               Off-Season UFOs

From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 14:36:53 -0800
Fwd Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 08:53:39 -0500
Subject: Off-Season UFOs



Hello all:

We pretty much know where UFOs are seen during the famous waves
over the modern era. I put up a series of maps showing those,
including:

North America 1947:

http://www.larryhatch.net/NAM47.html


North America 1952:

http://www.larryhatch.net/NAM52.html


Europe, France especially in 1954

http://www.larryhatch.net/EUR54.html


...and others on this Maps Menu:

http://www.larryhatch.net/MAPSMENU.html


The question occurs, where are UFOs seem _between_ the major
waves?

To study this, I set up filters on my software to _exclude_ the
following months/years:

June-July 1947; Mar-Apr 1950; June-Sept 1952;
Sept-Nov. 1954; November 1957; August 1965;
March-April 1966; March 1967; July-Sept 1968;
Oct-Nov 1973.

I left the rest of the data in to study the remainder.

Then, I ran off the following maps for

North America:

 http://www.larryhatch.net/NWMNAM.html

South America:

http://www.larryhatch.net/NWMSAM.html


Europe:

http://www.larryhatch.net/NWMEUR.html

I haven't done a fine analysis of the new data yet, but it might
be fun to compare and contrast those displays with the wave
years maps.

Maybe there are some discernible patterns to UFO sightings
locations "off-season" versus the busiest periods.

The three new maps are on my Thematic Maps menu here, along with
some new decades maps:

http://www.larryhatch.net/THEMEMAPS.html

Comments are always welcome.


Best wishes

- Larry Hatch







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                      Re: The Beveridge UFO - Balaskas

From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 17:58:24 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
Fwd Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 08:56:47 -0500
Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO - Balaskas


>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
>To:  ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 12:25:13 -0400
>Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO

>>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
>>Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 01:32:17 -0500
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO

<snip>

>>But, let's face it, that is the Xtreme Xplanation. Before we
>>make the flying ET leap we must be certain that neither bug nor
>>bird not film flaw - nor a chance combination of all three(?)
>>figure that one out(!) - could explain the image

<snip>

>Like you I have no problem with very high Mach numbers for UFOs
>since there have been reports of such since the late 40s. The
>bug hypothesis needs a speedy culprit to nail it down. Anyone
>got one?

>Is there and entomologist on this List?

Hi guys!

The only flying bugs that I have seen moving as fast as 60 MPH
were on the windshield of my car while I was driving on the
highway!

The best explanation is still an object not too small or too big
but was something in between such as a bird. As seen through my
eyes and interpreted by my mind, the dome of what looks to some
to be a classic flying saucer is more like the wing of a bird.
The shadows and non-uniform blurring can also be better
explained by a non-symetrical object like a bird that could have
been oriented in a number of possible ways in the sky when the
camera captured it in flight on film.

If the object was very much larger, it would be moving so fast
that we would still have to explain why a sonic boom was not
heard.

Of course, if the picture was taken through the windshield of a
car (possible since the photographer took the picture from the
middle of the road and not the side of the road as one would
expect from a pedestrian), the object could still turn out to be
a bug - a squashed one!


Nick Balaskas







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              Physical Trace Events & 2003 Canadian UFO Survey

From: Ted Phillips - I.A.I. <archaeoanom.nul-linc.net>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 17:52:36 -0600
Fwd Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 10:25:33 -0500
Subject: Physical Trace Events & 2003 Canadian UFO Survey


I was surprised by the Canadian report, in that reports have
increased 350% since 1998.

I'm curious as to how many of those events involved physical
evidence (not crop circles).

The trace database indicates a per month drop in such reports.

1950-1959: 2.5

1960-1969: 4.5

1970-1979: 9.2

1980-1989: 4.2

1990-1999: 3.6

2000-2003: 2.2

This drop is curious and the quality (high strangeness) of trace
events also has dropped.


Ted Phillips








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                      Re: The Beveridge UFO - Maccabee

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 19:16:26 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 10:36:00 -0500
Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO - Maccabee


>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 12:25:13 -0400
>Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO

>>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
>>Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 01:32:17 -0500
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO

<snip>

>>But, let's face it, that is the Xtreme Xplanation. Before we
>>make the flying ET leap we must be certain that neither bug nor
>>bird not film flaw - nor a chance combination of all three(?)
>>figure that one out(!) - could explain the image

>>And, by the way, I'm not convinced its a bird or a bug! But I
>>have yet to take the flying leap!!

>Hi Bruce,

>That's the problem isn't it? We are missing some information to
>make a final determination-distance. It can be argued either
>way - bug or craft.

>Is there any way to make a determination of distance by using
>focal length. I haven't looked yet [and I don't expect to find
>it either] but perhaps a shadow on the ground might be in the
>picture. The terrain doesn't leave much to be desired. It's a
>grassy field, but not impossible.

The f-stop was listed as about 9, as I recall, implying a
reasonable depth of field. If focused at infinity then I would
expect to get reasonable focus as close as several feet. Thus
only objects really close to the camera would appear out of
focus (e.g., bug).

As I pointed out, defocus de to closeness is not the only
possible explanation for fuzzy or "soft" edges of an image.
Motion toward or away from the camera can also fuzz the edges(as
can lateral motion smear). Then there always is the quality...
or lack of same.. just due to the photographic medium.

Bottom line: I don't think we can use focal length to determine
the distance.

As for a shadow... I thought of that. If real and a few
hundred(?) feet away, the shadow would be behind the sign at the
right side of the tracks (I think)

If small and close the shadow would be below the field of view.
No doubt there is some assumed distance where the shadow would
appear between the camera and the sign...but I don't see any.
That argues for close (small) or far away (big).







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                      Re: The Beveridge UFO - Maccabee

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 19:19:42 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 10:38:56 -0500
Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO - Maccabee


>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 11:54:37 -0500
>Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO

>>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
>>Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 01:32:17 -0500
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO

>>But, let's face it, that is the Xtreme Xplanation. Before we
>>make the flying ET leap we must be certain that neither bug nor
>>bird not film flaw - nor a chance combination of all three(?)

><snip>

>Hi Bruce,

>Thanks for that intelligent analysis and discussion of the
>>Beveridge image. I follow your reasoning exactly and personally
think it points to the most 'bugging' of explanations.  :)

What we need is a debugging... on a grand scale. On the other
hand, maybe the passengers in the saucers are bugs... a la the
Men in Black movie.







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              Re: Harrassment - Has It Happened To You? - Pope

From: Nick Pope <nick.nul>
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 00:36:58 -0000
Fwd Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 10:40:20 -0500
Subject: Re: Harrassment - Has It Happened To You? - Pope


>From: Bill Stockstill <size14d.nul>
>To:  ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 16:34:30 -0500
>Subject: Re: Harrassment - Has It Happened To You?

>>From: Nick Pope <nick.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 21:38:50 -0000
>>Subject: Re: Harrassment - Has It Happened To You?

>It is interesting that you would chime in on this topic. Years
>ago I read  "UFO A Deadly Concealment" by Derek Sheffield. I was
>so interested in the book I later started up written
>correspondence with him on his investigations into the Belgium
>triangle UFO sightings of 1989/1990. He wrote of harrassment via
>the British Post Office. He states in his book that about 2
>dozen pieces of mail, including registered mail, involving his
>investigation into the 1989/90 Belgium UFO flap never made it to
>their destinations.

Bill and List,

Mr Sheffield was a persistent correspondent. But curiously
enough, every time I wrote to him, he replied virtually by
return of post. Over the several months that this correspondence
continued, the mail flowed freely and speedily in both
directions.

>He also wrote of several encounters with your where you seemed
>to give him incomplete information. When I wrote him of your
>book, "Open Skies, Closed Minds", he was shocked. He thought you
>were a government debunker. Here are some of the things he
>states happened when he contacted you for information of the
>British Government's knowledge of the March 30/31, 1990 Belgium
>F-16 UFO encounter:

I'm sorry to hear that Mr Sheffield thought I was a government
debunker, because I made every effort to respond fully to his
numerous questions. He used some of my letters in his book, and
if you re-read this correspondence, I hope you'll see that I
tried to be as helpful as possible.

>Your department handled radar enquires but you had no figures
>concerning them.

We never separated the data out in this way.

>You first told him that radar can have spurious returns but
>later admitted skilled radar operators can discern them from
>real objects.

These two points are not contradictory. I was probably trying to
explain the basics of radar technology to Mr Sheffield.

>You told Derek that in 1992 there were 147 UFO reports and when
>he asked for information on the sightings was given "a few
>sparse details - heavily censored - which revealed no details
>that could be checked."

The figure is certainly correct. But it's not the business of
the MOD to provide an aerial identification service to members
of the public. If ufologists ask the MOD for information with
regard to specific cases, we'll indicate whether or not we've
received other reports that might correlate what was seen. If we
have, we'll release redacted versions. But you may rest assured
that the MOD will not release personal details of witnesses to
ufologists. I'm sorry to hear that Mr Sheffield viewed this as
censorship. We viewed it as respecting witness confidentiality.
Nowadays we'd describe it as compliance with the Data Protection
Act 1998.


Best wishes,

Nick Pope







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                       Re: The Beveridge UFO - Ledger

From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 23:29:28 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 10:44:10 -0500
Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO - Ledger


>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 11:38:05 -0500
>Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO

>>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 01:22:02 -0400
>>Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO

><snip>

>>Many have been rushing in to show off their expertise re JPEG, MPEG
>>and their vast experience of dealing with it. and is probably a
>>satisfying way in which to stroke egos, but it doesn't do much for
>>the study of the image does it? I want to see more and proof to
>>boot. If this is an IFO, prove it. Don't just throw words around.

>Hold it right there, Don. The burden of proof is on anyone who
>alleges that this highly ambiguous image shows something truly
>anomalous, not upon those who propose straight-forward explanations.

Well, is it not anomalous? So far there is no definitive proof either
way. Bruce Maccabee can't determine whether it's near the lens or
hundreds of feet away.

>How so? Well, prosaic events such a bug flights,
>that might have caused the image are quite common. UFO events are, in
>fact, quite rare.

I find that argument a bit weak. We can't be certain that UFO
events are uncommon. Very few bug events are reported but there
are dozens of UFO reports worldwide each day and that's just the
ones that are indeed reported, albeit many are of a prosaic
nature.

>And, don't be fooled by thinking that reports by locals who have
>heard of this photo and report seeing things they did not understand
>at different times and not at that place have any relevance. They do
>not. Some instances cases involving fake UFO photos, with people
>hearing about them and thinking they are real, have naturally caused
>the innocent (and not so innocent) to report things to the media they
>might never otherwise have reported.

Yeah, no argument there. And I'm not fooled by the other
reports. They don't concern me - unless of course one is during
the same time-frame and area when the photo was taken.

But, it's my contention this thing was moving too fast to be
seen by the naked-eye and was accidentally trapped by the 250-6
shutter speed. If it's reasonable for a bug, then why not the
so-called "flying saucer", or the better appellation the UAP?


Don Ledger







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                       Re: The Beveridge UFO - Ledger

From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 23:33:43 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 10:45:24 -0500
Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO - Ledger


>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 12:20:31 -0500
>Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO

>>From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 06:57:03 -0600
>>Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO

>>>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 01:46:36 -0400
>>>Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO

>>>Jeez, you two... pistols at dawn?

>>>Tone it down a bit. It's only a damn UFO/BUG shot.

>>>And there's no need to fight over me.

>>Well - It's all your fault Don, what with all the suggestive
>>clothing and heavy lip gloss. Your come-hither looks and nine
>>inch heeled CFMS aren't fooling anybody either. I've been
>>tempted to fight over you myself (and _have_ when I think about
>>it - LOL!).

All the trouble I go through, carefully choosing my make-up has
paid of. And I've spent years tweaking my come-hither/heather
look. Looks like it's finally paying off.


Donna








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               Re: Stupidity In The New Age Of Anti-Science -

From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 01:07:16 -0800
Fwd Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 13:56:26 -0500
Subject: Re: Stupidity In The New Age Of Anti-Science -


>From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 16:12:54 -0600
>Subject: Re: Stupidity In The New Age Of Anti-Science

>>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 05:48:54 -0800
>>Subject: Stupidity In The New Age Of Anti-Science

>>Source: The Scotsman
>>http://news.scotsman.com/opinion.cfm?id=160812004
>>10 February 2004

>>Stupidity in the new age of anti-science
>>Gillian Bowditich

>>SOME 3.7 million people claim to have been abducted by aliens.
>>Only 11 per cent of Americans believe in evolution. Type "Flat
>>Earth Society" into the Google search engine on the internet and
>>you will have a choice of 466,000 sites. How did we get this
>>stupid?

>We started getting stupider when we hauled out the broadest
>brush we could find and then started painting with it. Could we
>have a breakdown as to what percentage of abductees believe in
>evolution? Or how many "Flat Earthers" claim to have been
>abducted?

>You know, I've never read an article like this mention that a
>majority - a BIG majority - of real, live, rational scientists
>believe in God. This fact is not offered as any kind of
>refutation of the suggestion that people are getting stupider. I
>personally don't believe in God, but I don't claim that to prove
>I'm more intelligent than someone who does. I'm only suggesting
>that rationality and intelligence are only tangentially linked,
>and that some of the world's greatest minds believe and have
>believed some of the most irrational, stupid things.

>Why? Because reality is complex and subtle, and remains mostly
>unexplored and unexplained. Because we're creatures of our time,
>and can only work and think within existing frameworks. And
>because the smartest people on the planet are those who
>understand how little they really know.


Hello Tim:

Ah yes, the broad brush, then the brush-off.

Point to a gaggle of idiots, then you can dismiss the entire UFO
mess with one neat flush of the toilet.

If I may seize on one side issue however:

I was surprised when you wrote that a BIG majority of scientists
believe in God! I would have guessed a sizable minority, maybe
30% or so.

I was wrong. Here is a quote from an Atheist site:

"... surveys typically find that around 40% of scientists
believe in god; so believers are in the minority. (The most
recent survey was by Edward J. Larson and Larry Witham, was
carried out in 1996, and was reported in the journal 'Nature'.)"

http://www.infidels.org/news/atheism/intro.html

One thoughtful Deist website apparently refers to the same or
similar study:

"According to a 1997 survey published in 'Nature', four out of
ten scientists believe in God. A slightly higher proportion,
just over 45%, said they did not believe in God, while 14.5%
considered themselves agnostics. The surprising truth is that
the proportion of believers to atheists has not changed in the
last 80 years."

http://www.protestantedigital.com/hemeroteca/004/international.htm

That last factoid also surprised me! I would have expected the
ratio of (athiests+agnostics)/deists to have increased notably,
if slowly, over 8 decades as the older generations leave the
scene.

One more interesting factoid from that same second page: The
very term "scientists" wasn't used before 1833! Science history
is full of genuine scientists before then, but they simply
didn't use that term. What was Isaac Newton (1642 - 1727) if not
a scientist? I understand he considered himself a "natural
philosopher" and mathematician.

Maybe the term 'scientist' was coined to differentiate chemists,
physicists, naturalists etc. from others kinds of philosophers.
I'm on very weak ground here.

My main point remains that the majority of scientists,
presumably all types, do not profess a belief in God. I'm
surprised to find that about 40% actually do!

I hope the figures do not include "bible science" types.


Best wishes

- Larry Hatch








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                                 Space Ghost

From: Louise A. Lowry <ShnSassy1.nul>
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 06:22:51 -0600
Fwd Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 14:02:31 -0500
Subject: Space Ghost

Source: The Pitch - Kansas City

http://www.pitch.com/issues/2004-02-05/strip.html/1/index.html

February 12, 2004


Space Ghost
What if Bob Lindsay abducted an alien and no one cared?

As Told to Tony Ortega
feedback.nul


Talk about flyover country. Now even Kansas City's UFOs are
getting no respect.

It's been nearly three weeks since Bob Lindsay spotted something
falling out of the sky on a security monitor at the TriGen power
plant downtown.

Lindsay seems like a straight-up kind of guy. He's a chiller
operator at the plant, which supplies power, heating and cooling
to major buildings downtown. When the summer's swelterin',
Lindsay's the man making sure the temperature stays cool in
Bartle Hall.

So you can imagine that Lindsay has a little time on his hands
when it's the dead of winter and air conditioning's about as
useful as tits on a boar.

On January 14, Lindsay was usin' a little of that leisure time
to check on a colleague in the plant's control room when he
noticed something odd. A security camera trained on a couple of
the plant's boiler stacks happened to capture an object moving
across the sky.

"I saw a long, black object, and I could see flames starting at
its nose and going up both sides of it," Lindsay tells the
Strip.

Lindsay wasn't sure what he was seeing, so the 52-year-old did
what he figured was the responsible thing - he made a videotape
of the flight and alerted the media.

First, he says, he tried The Kansas City Star, but the newspaper
didn't get back to him. So naturally, he next turned to the Fox
network.

And here's where the story really gets strange.

After describing what he'd seen to a producer at WDAF Channel 4,
Lindsay was told that the Fox affiliate - get this - wasn't
interested.

Say what? The network that brought us Alien Autopsy passes on a
UFO videotape? What's the world coming to?

Still, Lindsay didn't give up. He had better luck with KMBC
Channel 9, which aired Lindsay's tape and called NORAD (the
North American Aerospace Defense Command), only to find that the
U.S. military claimed not to know anything about a re-entering
piece of space junk over Kansas City. The ABC station also
consulted an astronomer, who said the object was probably a
large meteor (freakin' spoilsport).

Channel 9's story was picked up by numerous television outlets
outside the Kansas City region and was rebroadcast from Florida
to the Bay Area.

Lindsay admits that after the story started to spread, he
figured he'd be answering calls from plenty of other local
television and radio outlets.

But so far, nothing.

And here's what's even stranger. Despite putting up notices of
the sighting on two different UFO Web sites, Lindsay's had no
inquiries whatever from UFO researchers - and his messages on
the two sites have both disappeared!

What the - !

This meat patty was beginning to smell an X-Files-sized
conspiracy. Here was videotape of a sighting - the gold standard
of Ufology - and not a single self-styled Agent Mulder or Scully
had descended on Lindsay to take down his testimony.

That just ain't natural. In this meat patty's experience, even
the whiff of a close encounter is enough to bring hordes of
amateur Area 51 experts out of the woodwork to make astounding
pronouncements of space-alien involvement on the slimmest of
evidence. Why, this tenderloin itself has seen persuasive
outer- space gurus convince eyewitnesses that the
indistinguishable speck they had spotted above their heads was
actually a full- blown hyper-dimensional mothercraft with
illuminated portholes filled with the visages of bulbous-eyed
aliens. These folks are good.

And by now, they'd normally be all over Lindsay and his
videotape like a hound dog on a bone.

Instead, Lindsay remains unmolested and, truth be told, a little
bewildered.

This sirloin decided to get to the bottom of things and looked
up Jim Johnson, director of Kansas City's chapter of the Mutual
UFO Network.

Jim, it turned out, was well aware of the Lindsay Incident. In
fact, he said, his group of local UFO aficionados has been
buzzing about it in a flurry of e-mails. But that enthusiasm, he
says, hasn't resulted in an actual MUFON investigation.

Why not?

"I personally didn't take an interest, because I didn't think it
was a UFO. This looked like a falling piece of space debris. I
don't think anybody in our group thought it was worth
investigating," Johnson uttered, to this cutlet's amazement.

Could it be? Had the Strip really found a skeptical UFO hunter?

After talking with Johnson for a little while, this meat patty
got the distinct impression that perhaps some of the impulse
power has leaked out of the E.T. industry since the passing of
the millennium and the cancellation of X-Files.

Johnson says just sixteen folks showed up at the local MUFON's
last bimonthly meeting in January at the Westport Branch
Library. Only 21 came the time before.

And as for local flying-saucer activity? Johnson says he hasn't
seen one yet, and it's been more than a decade since the last
local crop circle showed up.

This porterhouse of pontification hated to get back to Lindsay
with the bad news. But it gave the chiller man the news
straight: "Pardner, about that spacecraft you nabbed in midre-
entry? Nobody gives a crap."

Lindsay was mystified by the lack of response to his celestial
prize.

"I put it on the Internet to see if anyone had any interest.
Nothing. I don't know what the problem is. Maybe the government
told them to back off."

That's the spirit, Bob. That's the spirit.

--
World Of The Strange http://www.worldofthestrange.com
Para-Discussion List: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Para-Discuss/






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                       What Does A Martian Look Like?

From: Louise A. Lowry <ShnSassy1.nul>
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 06:40:14 -0600
Fwd Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 14:07:01 -0500
Subject: What Does A Martian Look Like?


Source: BBC News

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/3472179.stm

Monday, 9 February, 2004


What does a Martian look like?

It's life but not as we know it....

Fictional aliens come in all shapes and sizes - but what would a
creature from another planet really look like? Would we even
recognise one if we met it? In a new book published this month,
science fiction writers Jack Cohen and Ian Stewart set out to
find the answers.

The first thing to get straight when thinking about life on
other planets, according to Jack Cohen, is that it will almost
certainly not be humanoid.

In the same way that Jesus Christ is portrayed as a Caucasian in
Western culture, Mr Cohen argues, we have made fictional aliens
in our own image.

"ET looks like a cute three-year-old child. But that is just for
dramatic purposes, within the film."

The development of spines and skeletons is, he says, an
evolutionary accident that could well be unique to Earth.

"If you ran Planet Earth again, the chances are you wouldn't get
vertebrates. You wouldn't get creatures with a jointed spine."

The Roswell alien autopsy footage, which purported to show a
creature recovered from a crashed space ship, is too humanoid to
be taken seriously, he argues. The same goes for the classic
almond-eyed alien creatures from the X Files and countless
Hollywood movies.

Bogeymen

When authors and film-makers are not making their aliens cosily
familiar, they are creating modern-day bogeymen.

The alien has become a "quasi-scientific stand-in" for ghosts,
ghouls and fairies, Cohen and Stuart argue.

The best example of this is the film Alien, which plays on our
fear of the unknown to spine-chilling effect. But the science
behind the film is "beyond nonsense", according to Mr Cohen.

The idea that a creature would wait 12,000 years before hatching
its egg, "without something eating it" is absurd, he says. That
it would adapt instantly to the human immune system is similarly
far-fetched.

Life on Mars?

But the famous scene where the alien creature emerges from John
Hurt's stomach is the most unrealistic of all.

"If you have something much bigger than your heart moving around
inside your chest and you don't know about it, you are in big
trouble."

The idea that aliens live on Mars is also wide of the mark - the
chances of life being found on the red planet are slim, the pair
argue.

It may have been around two billion years ago, when Mars had
water and an atmosphere, but it would not have had a chance to
develop beyond the most primitive of organisms, before dying
out.

Real aliens

But just because aliens don't look like us or live on Mars does
not mean they don't exist.

"We've got to get away from all those comfortable ideas that
aliens will be just like us, except for a few minor differences
that don't challenge our imagination."

"Real aliens will be very alien indeed," Cohen and Stewart
write.

Many different habitats can theoretically support life, not just
a water and oxygen based planet.

Anywhere that physical matter exists and there is an energy
source could lead to the development of something of sufficient
complexity that we would categorise it as "life".

Perhaps a gas cloud on a moon of Jupiter or a "sentient sea" of
the kind found in the classic science fiction novel Solaris.

Exotic types

But only aliens that have evolved in a similar environment to
earth would be interested in visiting us and making contact,
Cohen and Stewart argue.

Other, more exotic types of alien life might be here already,
they argue, but we are just not able to recognise them.

"Certainly aliens would not look like the canonical little green
men... unless they wanted to.

"They might look exactly like people. Or cats. Or houseflies. Or
they could be invisible, or lurking just outside our space time
continuum."

They could also be concealed inside atoms or they could "exist
only in the gaps where the human perceptual systems are in their
refractory phase and cannot register their existence."

But the chances are they are not here at all.

Like humans, whose initial enthusiasm for space exploration,
which culminated in the moon landings in the late 1960s, petered
out, they just might not be interested in making the trip.

What Does a Martian Look Like? The Science of Extra-terrestrial
Life, by Jack Cohen and Ian Stewart, is published by Ebury Press


--
World Of The Strange http://www.worldofthestrange.com
Para-Discussion List: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Para-Discuss/






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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   Feb > Feb 12

              Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Shough

From: Martin Shough <mshough.nul>
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 13:09:43 -0000
Fwd Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 14:09:52 -0500
Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph - Shough


>From: Dan Bright <ufo.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 22:02:24 -0000
>Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph

>>From: Martin Shough <mshough.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 21:13:10 -0000
>>Subject: Re: Whittlesea Australia UFO Photograph

>>The wings on the other hand are stopped with very little
>>vertical oscillation during the exposure. You can see this
>>clearly on the wing which is pointed more or less straight at
>>the camera and makes a thin bright highlight.
>>This suggests that the wing is beating slowly relative to the
>>lateral bulk motion of the object, which in turn suggests (to
>>me) the aerodynamic lift of a bird rather than a bug.

>Hello Martin et al,

>Beetle wings move between 46 and 90 beats per second. On
>average, beetles are able to travel at 5km per hour
>(3.106856mph, 1,388.89mm/sec, 54.68 inches/sec).

Hi Dan

Thanks for the interesting information. So given an average
wingbeat period of about 1/80 second one would expect that if
the wings are caught during, say, an upbeat (1/160 sec.) then
they would be blurred through 2/3 of that upward motion in 1/250
sec. The same for a downbeat. If the wings happen to be caught
just at the peak of the cycle then they would appear blurred by
about half this much (about 1/3 of the full up-down cycle).

Given that the near wing is edge-on to the camera and appears as
a _fairly_ sharp and bright line, it seems safe to conclude that
it is not blurred through 2/3 of its motion, and probably not
even by 1/3 either. In other words a 1/250 second exposure would
only 'stop' a wing beat which was at least twice as slow, and
probably at least three times as slow, as the mean insect rate.
This rate is about half the minimum cited rate of a beetle wing.

Therefore although the bulk lateral rate deducible from apparent
motion blurring might be consistent either with a bird or with
an insect, this wingbeat measure serves to test between the
hypotheses. The result is probably inconsistent with an insect,
but is consistent with a bird.


Best

Martin Shough








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   Feb > Feb 12

               Re: Experts Studying ISS Object Photos - Warren

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 07:03:30 -0800
Fwd Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 14:13:02 -0500
Subject: Re: Experts Studying ISS Object Photos - Warren


>From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 16:45:35 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
>Subject: Re: Experts Studying ISS Object Photos

>>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 06:12:47 -0800
>>Subject: Experts Studying ISS Object Photos

>>Source: Interfax

>>http://www.interfax.ru/e/B/0/28.html?id_issue=8672897

><snip>

>>An earlier NASA report said that, after checking the engines of
>>the Progress supply spaceship, the ISS crew, Russian Alexander
>>Kaleri and American Michael Foale, noticed a narrow strip of
>>apparently soft material, 20 to 25 centimeters long, that was
>>moving away from the station.

>>Some specialists believe the object may have been a piece of
>>insulation, and others think it may have been part of a ribbon
>>fixing something outside the station.

><snip>

>Hi Frank!

>>From the description of this mysterious object, it sounds very
>much like the undulating free flying "space snake" that was seen
>on previous space missions and even recorded on video by veteran
>Shuttle astronaut Story Musgrave. Musgrave also saw this space
>snake on at least one previous space flight.

>Could near-Earth space be a much stranger place than we could
>possibly imagine where such living critters do exist?

>Nick Balaskas


Nick,

I was unaware of the Musgrave's story. Although I'm a firm
believer that "man" will discover many "new" things about space
etc., in the next few decades, methinks the object was most
likely some debris, since in essence we have an orbiting "junk
yard" around our beloved planet.


Regards,

Frank









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   Feb > Feb 12

               "Birth Of Cloned Boy Medical Equivalent Of UFO

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 07:19:15 -0800
Fwd Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 14:16:33 -0500
Subject: "Birth Of Cloned Boy Medical Equivalent Of UFO


Source: China View

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2004-02/12/content_1311019.htm

2004-02-12

Australia: birth of cloned boy medical "UFO story"

CANBERRA, Feb. 12 (Xinhuanet) -- The claimed birth of a cloned
boy in Sydney is "the medical equivalent of a UFO story" as well
as illegal, said Australian Health Minister Tony Abbott on
Thursday.

He was commenting on the claims by the controversial
international cloning group Clonaid that its sixth cloned baby
was born in Sydney on Feb. 5.

Talking to local TV Nine Network, the minister said human
cloning is dangerous, illegal and immoral.

Opposition health spokeswoman Julia Gillard also said
Clonaid'sclaims are disturbing, pointing out that the federal
parliament has unanimously passed legislation to outlaw cloning
in Australia.

The Clonaid said on its website that the boy is "perfectly
healthy" and seven other cloned babies are expected in a
fortnight.

It claimed that the cloned child born in Australia was "not
conceived within Australia and therefore adheres to Australian
cloning laws."






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                                 Rocket Man

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 07:26:40 -0800
Fwd Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 14:18:20 -0500
Subject: Rocket Man


Source: The Christian Monitor

http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/0211/p15s01-stss.html

February 11, 2004

Rocket Man

Aviation legend and convention-buster Burt Rutan leads the
charge among civilians out to claim the point position on manned
spaceflight. Will such barnstormers of space supplant NASA?

By Bruce V. Bigelow | Contributor to The Christian Science
Monitor

February 11, 2004

   The high desert 90 miles northeast of Los Angeles was once
the bottom of an ancient sea. Today highways run arrow-straight
through the desolate terrain, past crooked Joshua trees that
stand like sentinels. At an airport near the old mining town of
Mojave, rows of mothballed jetliners bake in the desiccating
heat.

In vivid contrast, the Mojave Airport also offers a window on
the future. Here sit the Civilian Flight Test Center and some of
the most advanced aircraft in the world. For more than 60 years,
the real attraction of this place has been the azure dome
overhead, where a flier can see for 30 miles, 360 days a year.
It is pilot heaven, home of Edwards Air Force Base, and the
birthplace of the sonic boom.

Mojave also is home to Burt Rutan. In a world that celebrates
test pilots and fighter jocks, Mr. Rutan has attained his own
special status as one of the nation's most visionary aircraft
designers.

To the public at large, Rutan is best known as the creator of
Voyager, the willowy plane that hangs in the lobby at the
National Air and Space Museum in Washington. The propeller-
driven aircraft made aviation history in 1986, flying nonstop
around the world on a single tank of gas.

To aviation enthusiasts, Rutan is renowned for creating designs
that marry lightweight materials with sophisticated ideas. His
home-built craft have set new standards for speed, distance, and
fuel economy.

Now 60, the crusty engineer with the trademark muttonchops is
poised to again seize the public imagination by applying his do-
it-yourself approach in a quest for space - one that
deliberately excludes NASA. And even as Washington dreams - one
year after the loss of Columbia - about moon bases and missions
to Mars, some experts maintain that it is private individuals
like Rutan who will shape the race for the final frontier.

Bankrolled by Microsoft billionaire Paul Allen, Rutan plans to
send three civilian test pilots in a rocket plane to the
threshold of space. By making the subor- bital flight to an
altitude of 100 kilometers (62 miles) twice within two weeks,
Rutan hopes to win the $10 million X Prize, an international
contest created by a group of space enthusiasts eight years ago.
The idea was modeled after the contest with a $25,000 purse that
spurred pioneer aviator Charles Lindbergh to prove in 1927 that
it was possible to fly a plane alone across the Atlantic.

Rutan not only wants to set records and make history, but also
to shatter conventional notions about the near-impossibility of
private ventures sending ordinary folks into space.

"He's motivated by a desire to be different and startling as
much as anything else," says Peter Garrison, a contributing
editor at Flying magazine who has known Rutan for 30 years.
"He's certainly the most prolific and imaginative designer of
his time."

Mindful of his role on the global stage, Rutan wants to show
that he has developed the world's first private program for
manned spaceflight - and then hand the keys to a new generation
of pioneers he calls "the barnstormers of space."

His vision of the future of space travel includes a visceral
antibureaucratic streak that Rutan expresses with blunt candor.
He has emphasized that his space program, which cost an
estimated $25 million, has used no government money and relied
on no government labs.

"We have no government customers and no government technical
interface," he told a group of test pilots in Los Angeles in
September. "That's fun."

When Rutan first unveiled his experimental spacecraft for the
public last April, he also was, consciously or unconsciously,
conjuring up the lost gonzo spirit of the Right Stuff.

In the 1950s, the United States was developing two different
ways of launching astronauts into space. One was the Mercury
Redstone rocket, a ballistic missile topped by a manned capsule
that test pilots back then derisively called "Spam in a can."
The other was the X-15, a rocket-powered aircraft carried to
high altitude by a B-52 bomber. The X-15 dropped away from the
mother ship, the rocket engine ignited in midair, and the pilot
aimed for the great yawning void.

This was the way Chuck Yeager had punched a hole in the sky in
1947 when he broke the sound barrier in the X-1, the ship that
was the primogenitor of all the winged rockets that followed.

With the ascendancy of NASA, however, the idea of reaching space
in a rocket plane evaporated like a contrail in the sky.

Now Rutan has returned to that path not taken. With no B-52s at
his command, he created a stunningly unusual mother ship, the
White Knight, to carry his rocket plane and launch it at about
50,000 feet.

The star-spangled rocket plane, SpaceShipOne, has made at least
eight flights since last April, when Rutan announced his quest
at Scaled Composites, the company he founded in 1982. This
lightweight spaceship, made of graphite and epoxy, has short
wings and twin vertical tails that flip up to act like a giant
air brake, enabling the aircraft to drop like a shuttlecock as
it reenters the atmosphere.

After several glide tests, SpaceShipOne broke the sound barrier
in its first powered test flight Dec. 17, a milestone that
coincided with the 100th anniversary of the Wright Brothers'
first flight.

As the rocket ship reached near weightlessness at 68,000 feet -
 the apex of its flight - ground observers heard test pilot
Brian Binnie exclaim over the radio, "Wow! That was a wild
ride!"

But Rutan isn't ready to step up to the microphones just yet.
The rocket man has rebuffed media requests to discuss his work
in progress in recent months. Instead, he has burrowed into his
Mojave lair, sending strong signs that he won't reappear until
he has accomplished the 21st-century equivalent of landing at Le
Bourget field.

Even if Rutan is successful, the extent to which private
barnstormers could displace NASA's role in the future of manned
spaceflight remains uncertain.

Daniel Goldin, the former NASA administrator who got into a
rancorous tiff over space tourist Dennis Tito's $20 million ride
to the international space station in 2001, professes great
respect for Rutan.

"I think Burt Rutan is just one of the great engineers of our
time," says Mr. Goldin. "He has done wonderful things. That
Voyager, nobody thought it could be done, and Burt pulled it
off."

Goldin would not discuss how aerospace entrepreneurs, wannabe
tourists, and other space buffs have embraced Rutan's venture.

Still, even the last man to walk on the moon seems to doubt NASA
will be the one to send his successor there. In an interview
with Australian Broadcasting in 2002, 30 years after his
mission, Apollo 17 astronaut Harrison Schmitt spoke of mining
the moon as a logical step toward sending humans to Mars.

"There's a lot of engineering, exciting engineering that has to
be done to make it possible and economic to do," Mr. Schmitt
said. "We need to find a way to create that technology base
without asking the taxpayer to do it for us."

Such thinking is what makes Rutan's venture so appealing.

"Burt Rutan's project is huge for the alternative space
community," says Greg Klerkx, author of "Lost in Space," a
recently published book that describes NASA as a bureaucratic
monopoly that strangles private initiatives in its realm.

"For the first time, really, you have the combination of a
company with a strong track record in aircraft and spacecraft
development paired with significant private backing," Mr. Klerkx
explains. "If Scaled Composites is successful with SpaceShipOne,
it will be a simple, relatively inexpensive template upon which
other vehicles can be built."

At NASA headquarters in Washington, spokesman Michael Braukus
calls Rutan's work "phenomenal." But he says the space agency
doesn't really have an official position concerning manned
spaceflights undertaken by the private sector.

"What the X Prize is trying to do is stimulate space tourism,
and that's wonderful," Mr. Braukus says. But space tourism, he
adds, "is not something that NASA's geared toward."

Saying that he is not familiar with the alternative space
community or its specific complaints about NASA, Braukus
maintains that "what NASA does is high-risk research. That's
what we've done since we were founded.... We do things that are
dangerous, that deal with exploration, in aviation as well as in
spaceflight."

But Rutan's views about NASA have only sharpened with scorn
through the years. To Rutan, NASA's culture of denial has led to
too many accidents, its technology is too expensive, and its
programs have grown - ironically - too risk-averse.

"We seem to be making acronyms for engineering welfare, rather
than having the courage to actually fly something," Rutan said
last April.

In his presentation for test pilots in Los Angeles last fall,
Rutan referred to NASA as "Nay-Say" and promised the brotherhood
of fliers that his quest to reach space would create "a whole
bunch of new jobs."

"And I mean fun jobs," he said, with another jab at the
aerospace bureaucracy, "and not just a job to test the latest
software upgrade for the F-18."

Elbert L. "Burt" Rutan was born June 17, 1943, and raised in
Dinuba, in California's Central Valley. As the youngest of three
children, he paid close attention as his brother Dick, who was
five years older, took flying lessons in 1954. Their sister Nell
later became a flight attendant for American Airlines, although
Dick says she did not share her brothers' fixation.

"Both of us had an abnormal fascination with aviation," recalls
Dick Rutan, who would go on to fly 325 combat missions in
Vietnam.

"Of course, his particular interest was in the design and
structure and the flying products and stuff," adds Dick. "And
me, I just wanted to fly."

Dick remembers their mother taking Burt to buy a model-airplane
kit, but even then his younger brother didn't want to build
planes from a kit. He wanted balsa wood so he could build his
own airplanes, "so that was his focus from Day 1."

At 16, Burt soloed in a single-engine Aeronca Champ after
logging only five hours and 44 minutes in flight training. He
attended California Polytechnic State University, San Luis
Obispo, and graduated with an aeronautical engineering degree in
1965. For the next seven years, he worked as a civilian flight-
test project engineer at Edwards Air Force Base.

In 1974, after a two-year stint as test-center director for the
Bede Aircraft Co. in Newton, Kan., Rutan returned to Mojave,
where he founded the Rutan Aircraft Factory to develop his own
designs for the growing market in home-built aircraft.

At the time, home-built aircraft took a lot of metal fabrication
and woodworking skills in mini machine shops. Blueprints
practically required an engineering degree to read, and there
was little text for guidance. But Rutan's small company came on
the scene with bold new ideas for aircraft made of lightweight
composite materials, and it offered customers an extraordinary
level of service and technical support.

In 1975, when the prototype VariEze landed at the annual fly-in
convention at Oshkosh, Wis., "it practically caused a mental
meltdown," says Dan Patch, a pilot who lives in San Diego. "This
amazing little plane just 'dropped in' after flying all the way
from California, and proceeded to break the closed-course
endurance record for its weight class four days later," says Mr.
Patch. "No loud talk, no self-promotion, just, boom, right in
front of the world's largest gathering of aviators."

Patch says he later heard Rutan give a talk about his VariEze
prototype, and found elements of the aerodynamic design
extremely sophisticated. Having a doctorate in engineering
physics, Patch says he had a pretty good idea that Rutan knew
what he was talking about. He bought a set of plans the week
they came out.

"Well before I finished my plane, VariEzes were setting records
for range and efficiency," says Patch. "It flew circles around
the increasingly overpriced and old-fashioned 'factory built'
planes."

Another VariEze owner, Rich Steck of Roswell, Ga., remembers
attending an open house that Rutan regularly held for home-built
enthusiasts at the Mojave Airport. After patiently answering
their questions, Rutan rolled out his VariEze prototype. Rutan
fired up the Volkwagen-engine conversion, recalls Mr. Steck.

"It quit just as he lifted his long left leg into the cockpit,"
Steck writes in an e-mail. "He glanced at the instrument panel,
grinned, and said: 'Runs longer with the fuel switch on.' "

To visiting pilots, the episode made Rutan seem fallible, and
human, Steck recalls. "Made it seem possible we could build what
he had designed."

Rutan followed the success of his VariEze design with a series
of other remarkable aircraft, including the Defiant and Long-EZ.
By the early 1980s, however, he decided to transition out of the
home-built aircraft market, mostly because of mounting pressures
arising from his exposure to liability.

"I always felt that [I should take] very good care of those that
I did sell plans to, and help them ethically and safely build
and fly their airplanes," Rutan said in an online interview
about five years ago with Air & Space magazine. "The guys that I
was at risk from - and still am - are people that buy an
airplane someone else has built, and the relatives of whoever he
may take for a ride."

In 1982, when Rutan founded Scaled Composites as a separate
business, it was chiefly to make proprietary designs and
composite scale models of prototype aircraft designs for various
customers. For the next 20 years or so, he became involved in a
number of projects, including his biggest failure - developing
an aircraft for Beech Aircraft in 1985 called the Starship. The
project was intended to replace the Beechcraft King Air, but
commercial production proved to be too complicated and costly
for the Raytheon subsidiary.

By the following year, Rutan was overseeing test flights of the
Voyager, with his brother Dick and copilot Jeana Yeager at the
controls. While Burt Rutan oversaw the design and construction,
his brother and Yeager oversaw fundraising for the $2 million
mission, with much of that donated by fellow aviators.

"It was a very informal thing, very much like a private 'skunk
works,' if you will," said Jack Norris, who served as technical
director in mission control for the Voyager flight. "He can do a
couple of calculations and wing everything in between because he
started out as a kid designing and building model airplanes."

Yet Mr. Norris, who spent his career in the aerospace industry,
says he also was struck by how quickly Burt Rutan could absorb
information. During a Voyager test flight off the California
coast, Norris realized nobody had prepared a press release that
included all the key information about the flight. So he wrote a
draft and showed it to Rutan after he returned from an out-of-
town trip.

"I never saw anybody in any circumstance read a dense piece of
paper, thoroughly digest it, and come back with the exact answer
anywhere near that quick," Norris says. "In about 30 seconds he
had read the whole thing, digested it, and said, essentially,
these 11 things are right, these seven things are wrong, and
here's what you want to say. Boom. Boom. Boom."

In the years following Voyager's flight, Rutan's career soared
as Scaled Composites produced scores of startling and
imaginative designs for aircraft. The company also developed a
wing-type sail for an America's Cup catamaran in 1988, a General
Motors Ultralite show car in 1992, and a 40-meter wind-power
turbine.

Rutan also took on a number of military contracts, including
"black budget" work - military research done under extreme
secrecy - on a 40 percent scale model of the B-2 Stealth bomber.
Rutan's company also designed a high-altitude, remotely piloted
vehicle for the Ballistic Missile Defense Organization. It built
a 62 percent scale prototype of an advanced transport plane for
the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency.

"He was a pioneer in the use of composite materials in private
aircraft," says Dick Rutan. What defines his brother, he says,
is his ability to "dive into his pool of nonsense and chaos" and
find the perfect solution way out in a corner someplace.

Today, Burt Rutan has overseen designs for more than 300
aircraft. Forty have been built and flight-tested. But the only
Rutan design ever certified by the Federal Aviation
Administration is Starship, which was discontinued shortly after
Beech entered production. The rest are classified strictly as
experimental aircraft designs.

"It would be a waste" to seek certification, says Dick. "He's an
innovative, creative designer. Why should he waste all of his
time trying to certify an airplane with a bunch of know-nothing
bureaucrats?"

As it is, his intensity may have carried a cost. Burt Rutan has
been married four times. He had health problems in 1998, and
since then only flies with a second pilot seated next to him.

"That really was his own fault," says his brother. "He was just
so engrossed in his designs and in running the company that he
just gave himself a heart attack. He was drinking about 20 cups
of coffee a day, sitting ... in front of a computer, eating
tacos, and popping Rolaids."

"Burt can be funny and pleasant and sometimes he can even be
modest," says Flying magazine's Mr. Garrison, "[but] he has a
big ego and he wants things to go his own way. People who work
for him don't always have the most adoring reports."

At the same time, Garrison says, Rutan's health problems "gave
him a sense that he has a limited amount of time to establish
his place in the firmament. And that's what this [space program]
is all about."

It may also be helping to drive his participation in another
big-budget project: to build a plane to fly nonstop around the
globe with a single pilot - and in a third of the time it took
Voyager. Test flown last month, Virgin Atlantic-backed
GlobalFlyer was designed by Scaled Composites to loop the earth
in 80 hours.

After 10 months, Scaled Composites still has given no indication
when SpaceShipOne will attain its ultimate goal in the
thermosphere. But Rutan's team appears close - and the timing
could provide another, more poignant, contrast for the people
who live and work beneath the celestial sphere.

In 1986, after Rutan's Voyager was two or three days into its
around-the-world flight, people "started to catch onto the idea
that this thing was real," says Norris, "and maybe it's going to
happen." It was just before Christmas, the same year in which
the shuttle Challenger was lost. "So where the Challenger was a
big downer," Norris remembers, "the Voyager turned out to be
this big uplifter."

Now Rutan is poised to do it again with SpaceShipOne, just as
the nation recalls the loss of Columbia one year ago. If he has
his way, his base in this ancient landscape could soon be
designated a legal spaceport.

The high desert north of Los Angeles really is a place of vivid
contrasts.









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   Feb > Feb 12

                       Re: The Beveridge UFO - Ledger

From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 11:27:29 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 14:20:47 -0500
Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO - Ledger


>From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 17:58:24 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
>Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO

>>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
>>To:  ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 12:25:13 -0400
>>Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO

<snip>

>>Like you I have no problem with very high Mach numbers for UFOs
>>since there have been reports of such since the late 40s. The
>>bug hypothesis needs a speedy culprit to nail it down. Anyone
>>got one?

>>Is there and entomologist on this List?

>The only flying bugs that I have seen moving as fast as 60 MPH
>were on the windshield of my car while I was driving on the highway!

<snip>

>If the object was very much larger, it would be moving so fast
>that we would still have to explain why a sonic boom was not
>heard.

Nick,

If it was a conventional aircraft-and not a bird or bug- there
would have been a sonic boom. The photographer would likely have
been bleeding from the ears. The wake behind it would have been
terrific. But if it was your classic exotic [thought-to-be]
extraterrestrial craft there is no reason it would have to
behave as do our earthbound aircraft.

>Of course, if the picture was taken through the windshield of a
>car (possible since the photographer took the picture from the
>middle of the road and not the side of the road as one would
>expect from a pedestrian), the object could still turn out to be
>a bug - a squashed one!

If memory serves the photographer was standing on the road
[facing west].

Incidentally, why was he taking pictures of the RR Crossing?


Don Ledger







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                              Black Hole Mayhem

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 07:29:59 -0800
Fwd Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 14:22:47 -0500
Subject: Black Hole Mayhem


Source: SpaceRef.com

http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewpr.html?pid=13622

February 11, 2004


Black Hole Mayhem: New Results from Chandra and XMM-Newton

New X-ray data from two orbiting satellites, providing the
best evidence to date for a spectacular black hole event long
predicted by theory but not confirmed until now, will be the
subject of the next NASA Space Science Update (SSU).

The SSU starts at 1 p.m. EST on Wednesday, February 18, 2004, in
the James E. Webb Auditorium, NASA Headquarters, 300 E St., S.W.,
Washington.

Science team leaders will present their findings for this
discovery, which could provide crucial information about how
these black holes grow and affect surrounding stars and gas. The
SSU will be carried live on NASA TV with two-way question- and-
answer capability for reporters covering the event at
participating NASA centers.

Panelists:

-- Dr. Stefanie Komossa, postdoctoral researcher, Max-Planck-
 Institute for Extraterrestrial Physics, Garching, Germany.

-- Dr. Guenther Hasinger, astrophysicist, Max-Planck-Institute
for Extraterrestrial Physics.

-- Dr. Kim Weaver, astrophysicist, NASA Goddard Space Flight
Center, Greenbelt, Md.

-- Dr. Alex Filippenko, professor, University of California,
Berkeley, Calif.

- Panel Moderator: Dr. Paul Hertz, Senior Scientist for
Astronomy and Physics, Office of Space Science, NASA
Headquarters, Washington.

NASA Television is available on AMC-9, transponder 9C, C-Band,
located at 85 degrees west longitude. The frequency is 3880.0
MHz. Polarization is vertical, and audio is monaural at 6.80
MHz. For information about NASA TV on the Internet, visit:

http://www.nasa.gov/ntv

Audio of the broadcast is available on voice circuit from the
Kennedy Space Center, Fla. at: 321/867-1220/1240/1260. The
update will be webcast live on the Internet at:









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                 Reality Check: Spheres On Mars Not Fossils

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 07:32:15 -0800
Fwd Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 14:24:26 -0500
Subject: Reality Check: Spheres On Mars Not Fossils

Source: Yahoo News

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=96&ncid=753&e=10&u=/space/200402
11/sc_space/realitycheckspheresonmarsnotfossils

Reality Check: Spheres on Mars Not Fossils

Space.com

Wed Feb 11,10:53 AM ET

Mars has a long history of being misinterpreted, from conjurings
of apparent canals that signaled an alien civilization to the
infamous NASA (news - web sites) photo of a supposed giant face.
Now a close-up picture of tiny spheres embedded in a Martian
rock has some people seeing fossilized life.

This alternate, perhaps hopeful view of a picture taken by
NASA's Opportunity Rover and released Monday has been expressed
in e-mail messages to reporters and geologists. Mission
scientists anticipated it and were ready yesterday with a
response.

While the spherules, as the small structures are called, are
incredibly interesting, they are not that incredible, according
to Steven Squyres, principal investigator for the Mars
Exploration Rover (MER) project from Cornell University.

"There simply is no reason to promote a biological origin for
these [spherules] when there are so many other, far more
probable ways of making them," Squyres told SPACE.com.

Squyres quoted his former teacher and friend, the late Carl
Sagan, who popularized the phrase, "Extraordinary claims require
extraordinary evidence."

"To claim a finding of fossils on Mars would certainly be
extraordinary," Squyres said, "yet there are many different and
very ordinary ways in which Nature makes spherical objects of
this size by non-biological processes."

Water, maybe

The rover mission is designed to learn whether Mars was once
warmer and wetter - as most scientists believe - a place that
might have supported some form of very simple, microbial life.
The spherules, after further investigation, may point in that
direction. But water does not equal life, it only sets the
stage.

Asked if, prior to getting these first close-up images of a Mars
rock, he had harbored any hope of finding fossilized life on
Mars, Squyres replied: "Never."

"Even on Earth, which has been a warm and life-friendly planet
for nearly all of its history, macroscopic fossils [the sort
that would show up in a rover image] don't turn up in any real
abundance in the geologic record until about 600 million years
ago - less than 15 percent of the planet's history," Squyres
explained. "To expect that life could have evolved to that level
of complexity in what might have to be less time, on what has
surely been a more hostile planet, would be asking far too
much."

The spherules are a few millimeters in diameter - much bigger
than a typical bacterium, which would be the sort of thing
scientists would expect to find on the red planet if there is
any life there.

The spheres are almost surely of a different composition than
the rock in which they are embedded, a preliminary analysis
showed. Scientists hope to determine what they are made of in
coming days with tests by multiple rover instruments. The tiny
beads are thought to have formed in one of three ways:

* Ash from a volcanic eruption was suspended in the air, stuck
together, and fell from the sky.

* Molten rock from a volcano or a meteor impact froze in mid-air
into glass beads.

* Fluid, possibly water, carried dissolved minerals through a
rock and "precipitated" grains that grew into spheres, through a
process called "concretion."

The last possibility most excites geologists, but more study is
needed to determine which of the hypotheses is correct.

Strange colors

In one strangely colored image of Stone Mountain, the smallish
rock with the outsized name in which the spherules are embedded,
other spherules are seen scattered about in the surrounding
soil.

The radical color enhancement - done purposely to bring out
differences in composition between the rock's primary makeup and
that of the spheres - gives the spheres an eerie, perhaps even
lifelike appearance. But the colors are not real. In a true-
color image of the same scene, the spheres are unremarkable.

Stone Mountain is part of a modest outcropping roughly the
height of a single stair step. There is a depressed region at
its base - a shallow crater - and a higher plateau above. It is
not known where the scattered spherules came from.

"It's impossible to know the pedigree of the ones that we see in
the soil," Squyres said. "Some of them certainly must have
weathered out of the outcrop, but many of them may be from
elsewhere, including materials above the outcrop and outside the
crater that we haven't been to yet."

Squyres had expected to be asked about whether the spherules
were fossils. So he had asked a colleague, Andrew Knoll of
Harvard University, to draft a more lengthy explanation for
their non-biological origin.

Not biology

"Some small organisms [on Earth] are spheroidal, but not all
small spheroidal structures are organisms," Knoll writes.
Extraterrestrial structures or chemical signatures can be
accepted as biological "only if we can rule out formation by
physical processes - the idea being that while life might vary
from planet to planet, physics and chemistry should not."

Knoll continues: "We know that physical processes make
structures like those seen in the images," adding that "we do
not know of any cells on Earth" that would form fossils that
look, in detail, like the structures seen in the Opportunity
photograph.

Spherical fossils this big - a few millimeters in diameter
instead of microscopic - are relatively rare," Knoll explains.
And cells do not fossilize as whole, solid structures.

Responding to a specific suggestion that the rover had found
small creatures called diatoms, Knoll said: "This is
impossible," citing several observed characteristics of the
spherules that don't match up.

The spherules are solid or mostly solid, Knoll writes, with
holes interpreted to be small cavities known to geologists as
vesicles. "This is not a likely consequence of biology."









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                           Water, Water Everywhere

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 07:35:11 -0800
Fwd Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 14:26:04 -0500
Subject: Water, Water Everywhere


Source: The Independent

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/science_medical/story.jsp?story=489934


11 February 2004

Water, Water Everywhere

Conventional wisdom is that extraterrestrial life is most likely
to be found on Earth-like worlds. But astronomers now believe
that giant landless planets with oceans hundreds of kilometres
deep could be teeming with organisms.

By Marcus Chown


Picture a giant, blue-white world with a planet-wide ocean
hundreds of times bigger than the Earth's and 10 times as deep.
According to planetary physicists in France and America, such
"ocean planets" could be common - and possibly the best places
in our galaxy to find life.

Until recently, nobody suspected the existence of giant water-
worlds, but in the past decade astronomers have discovered more
than 100 planets orbiting nearby stars. These "extrasolar"
planetary systems have changed our ideas of the kind of planets
that are possible.

In particular, some of the extrasolar planetary systems contain
"hot jupiters"; gas-giant planets similar to our own Jupiter,
but orbiting perilously close to the fires of their parent star.
In the case of the nearby star 51 Pegasi, for instance, a
Jupiter-like planet orbits eight times closer to its parent star
than the distance at which Mercury - the innermost planet in the
solar system - orbits the Sun.

The puzzle is that, if such planets are born so close to their
stars, the ferocious heat should long ago have caused them to
evaporate. Planetary physicists have been forced to conclude,
therefore, that the planets were born much farther from their
stars and then "migrated" inward.

The picture that has emerged is of a planet being driven in
towards its star during the late stages of planet formation by
the gravitational force between the planet and the remnant of
the swirling disc of dust out of which the planets formed. But,
if this could happen to a gas-giant planet such as Jupiter, why
could it not happen to an ice-giant planet like Uranus or
Neptune?

"Exactly," says Christophe Sotin of the University of Nantes in
France. If such a planet migrated towards its star, the heat
would cause its huge "mantle" of ice to melt, resulting in a
planet with a gigantic ocean. "Observational techniques are not
good enough to detect such 'ocean planets' yet," Sotin says.
"But we think they could be very common in our galaxy."

The possibility of ocean planets is not exactly new; they were
first proposed by David Stevenson of the California Institute of
Technology in Pasadena. However, Sotin and his colleagues are
the first to work out the details and publish them.

Sotin learnt about the possibility of ocean planets from
colleagues. He began to figure out what they might look like
when he discovered that his colleagues thought they could have
oceans thousands of kilometres deep. "I realised that was
totally preposterous," Sotin says. He is an expert on ice that
forms under high-pressure conditions; expertise he has used to
deduce the internal structure of Jupiter's giant ice-moon,
Callisto. Usually, the melting point of ice goes down at high
pressure. This would mean that deep down in an ice planet, where
the ice was being squeezed by the weight of all the material
bearing down from above, it should be liquid. "This is what led
my colleagues to think that all the ice in an ice planet would
melt, making an ocean thousands of kilometres deep," says Sotin.

However, he knew that at ultra-high pressure - the kind found
deep in an ice giant - ice enters a different "phase" known as
"Ice II". Instead of its melting point dropping as the pressure
goes up, it increases, so the ice is prevented from melting.
"Consequently, you only get an ocean about 100 kilometres deep,
not thousands of kilometres deep," Sotin says.

Sotin and his colleagues have calculated the depth of liquid
water for ice-giant planets less than 10 times the mass of the
Earth. The depth depends on the surface temperature of the
planet, which in turn depends on the atmosphere, which may
contain heat-trapping greenhouse gases such as carbon dioxide
and water vapour. Since the atmospheric composition of such a
planet is not well known, Sotin has calculated the ocean depth
for different surface temperatures.

If the surface temperature is 7C, the ocean will be 72
kilometres deep and the seabed temperature and pressure 35C and
11,000 atmospheres respectively. For a higher surface
temperature, the ocean will be deeper, and vice versa. For
instance, a surface temperature of 30C leads to an enormous
ocean depth of 133 kilometres.

A planet about eight times the mass of the Earth would have
about twice the Earth's diameter and gravity at the surface
about 50 per cent higher. An ocean 100 kilometres deep is 10
times the depth of the deepest ocean trench and 40 times the
average depth of the ocean. With the ocean covering an area six
times that of the Earth, we are therefore talking about a volume
240 times greater. "The Earth's ocean is a mere puddle by
comparison," Sotin says.

Others researchers have also suggested the existence of water
worlds, but ones actually born close in to the star, rather than
ones that have migrated there from far away. According to the
simulations of a team led by Sean Raymond of the University of
Washington, Seattle, it is possible to make worlds with more
than 100 times the Earth's water.

On such ocean planets, there would be no possibility of any
continents poking above the water, as the ocean would be 10
times deeper than the height of Everest. The climate on such a
world would depend on things such as the orbit of the planet and
the orientation of the axis about which it spins, so in general
it is not predictable.

But the planet's weather is likely to be extreme. "On Earth,
hurricanes run out of steam when they encounter land but, on an
ocean world, there would be no land to encounter," Sotin says.
"There might be super hurricanes." The winds would pile up
enormous ocean swells, which would never run in to land. "We're
talking about the kind of mountainous waves you get in the
Pacific, only more so," Sotin says.

What about the prospects for life? Well, on Earth, we believe
life got started in nutrient-rich waters close to volcanic vents
on the sea floor. The crucial factor, therefore, is how much ice
at the foot of the ocean separates the water from the planet's
volcanic interior. "If it is a thin layer, the prospects for
life are good," says Sotin. "If it's thick, they're not."

However, a minority of scientists think that volcanism isn't
necessary to get life started. These are the people, led by
Chandra Wickramasinghe of the University of Wales College,
Cardiff, who believe that life is "seeded" from space, with
micro-organisms spread from star system to star system in
cometary dust. If this "interstellar panspermia" idea is
correct, then ocean planets will certainly contain life.
Essential nutrients could rain down from meteorites continually
bombarding the ocean from space.

Ocean planets are also exciting to planetary scientists because
they ought to be relatively easy to detect. Currently, our
observational techniques have difficulty detecting even a giant
mass such as Jupiter, and such bodies are not detected directly,
only by the effect their gravity has on their parent star.

The race is on to detect an extrasolar planet directly - by the
light it reflects from its sun. For an Earth-like planet - the
Holy Grail of planetary searches - this is immensely difficult.
"However, for an ocean planet, far bigger and with an ocean
shining like a giant silvered mirror, it should be much easier,"
Sotin says.

Currently, several space-based observatories are being built to
detect extrasolar planets directly. They include the European
Space Agency's project Darwin, a flotilla of six spacecraft
flying in formation, each carrying a two-metre infrared
telescope; and Nasa's Terrestrial Planet Finder, an eight-metre
visible-light telescope. If ocean planets really do exist, then
the odds are that it will be one of their number, rather than an
Earth-mass planet, that will be discovered first. "If so," Sotin
says, "We'd better start learning dolphin!"










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              Space Photo Contents Often Are All In Eye Of The

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 07:43:09 -0800
Fwd Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 14:28:39 -0500
Subject: Space Photo Contents Often Are All In Eye Of The


Source: The Baltimore Sun

http://www.baltimoresun.com/technology/custom/pluggedin/bal-pl.himowitz12feb1200
1707,0,5882199.column?coll=bal-home-columnists

Feb 12, 2004


Space Photo Contents Often Are All In Eye Of The Beholder

When it comes to space, seeing is not necessarily believing.

Consider the photo that landed on my desk the other day. At
first it looks like one of the standard Mars shots that NASA has
been posting online for more than a month now.

It shows the front of the Spirit rover in the foreground and the
now-famous ruddy, rock-strewn Martian landscape. But look a bit
further into the distance and you'll see them - a Starbucks and
a McDonald's arch, looking quite at home.

A friend who found the photo on the Web passed a print on to me,
and it generated quite a few laughs at the office - along with
some dark oaths from photographers to the effect that this kind
of junk is why people don't believe the pictures they see
anymore.

Meanwhile, there's nothing like a torrent of legitimate photos
from space to bring out the UFO freaks, conspiracy theorists and
fanatics who claim to see ancient cities, faces and religious
images in pictures of the Martian surface and faraway galaxies.

You can blame the fake stuff on digital photography, which
records images as a grid of tiny, colored dots stored on a
computer's hard drive. The technology has spawned software that
can manipulate images in ways that are invisible to the naked
eye.

You may have already done this yourself. Virtually all photo-
editing programs come with a feature that "removes" red-eye from
flash exposures and changes the eye color to something
resembling reality.

Microsoft's Picture It!, which I use frequently, has a wonderful
little feature called "fix blemishes." Put the cursor on a
pimple, wart, scar or shaving nick, click the button, and it
disappears. I call it "digital Clearasil."

And those are just basic tools. With the advanced features
available in many programs, it's not surprising that images from
space have been tempting targets for pranksters, most of whom
use their talent - such as it is - to create visual puns and
wordless satire on contemporary life.

After I saw the first picture, I did a Google search and found a
half-dozen silly Mars shots, all of which took NASA photos and
superimposed images of Starbucks, McDonald's and Wal-Marts.
Obviously many minds think along the same lines.

With one exception, they were obviously "PhotoShopped," a term
photographers have invented for images edited with Adobe's
popular and powerful software. But the best of the bunch, a
Starbucks cup half buried in the Martian sand, was the work of a
real expert.

On the other hand, there are folks out there who think NASA has
already doctored the photos it posts, because - as we all know -
 the government is always hiding something. These are
undoubtedly children of the people who knew for a fact that Neil
Armstrong's walk on the moon back in 1969 was concocted on a
Hollywood movie set. Just do a Google search for "fake Mars
photos" and follow a few links that turn up. But buckle your
seat belt before you click - you're entering the Twilight Zone.

More interesting, and just as entertaining, are folks who see
strange things in photos from space. Skeptics have coined a term
for this phenomenon - pareidolia, an illusion or misperception
involving a vague or obscure stimulus that's perceived as
something clear and distinct.

Pareidolia is common enough, and predates the space program by a
millennium or two. We've all seen the Man in the Moon, or faces
and images of ships and elephants in cloud formations (When I
was a young reporter, I once wrote a story about a gardener who
grew a green pepper that looked like Richard Nixon, but it never
made the paper.)

In 1978, some 8,000 people made pilgrimages to the home of a New
Mexico woman who discovered a picture of Jesus in a burned
tortilla. And in 2001, thousands saw the face of Satan captured
in a CNN video and Associated Press photos of smoke billowing
from the World Trade Center. (For a great collection these and
more example of pareidolia, visit http://thefolk lorist.com)

Space seems to hold a particular fascination for pareidoliacs.
Some argue that the most famous was the distinguished American
astronomer Percival Lowell, who in 1894 built one of the first
modern observatories on a hill high above the clear air of
Flagstaff, Ariz. His observations of Mars convinced him that its
strange markings were "canals" built by an ancient civilization
- a notion that persisted for more than half a century.

NASA disproved the canal theory beyond a doubt with its first
Mars missions, but the agency's own photos - now available in
quantity and high-resolution quality on the Web - have inspired
similar flights of fancy in a wired world.

One of the most famous was the Hubble Space Telescope's
spectacular 1995 photo of the Eagle Nebula - 7,000 light-years
from Earth - where many of the faithful discovered what appeared
to be an image of Jesus.

Cheryl Gundy, spokeswoman for the Space Telescope Institute in
Baltimore, remembers that one well. "We certainly didn't go out
of our way in captions to say it was the face of God," she said.

But she agreed that these things are in the eye of the beholder.
"I think if you look hard enough and you want to see it, you
will see it," she said.

At:

http://hubblesite.org/newscenter/newsdesk/archive/releases/1995/44/

you'll find the original photo.

Six years later, Ufologists got their hopes up when a photo
snapped by NASA's Solar and Heliospheric Observatory picked up
what appeared to be a flying saucer. It turned out to be a
digital artifact caused by stars in the background that blended
into a single image.

Since the first Viking orbiter circled Mars in 1976, photos from
NASA's space probes have provided grist for the Close Encounters
mill.

If you're ready for another trip to the Twilight Zone, you'll
find a good collection of them at
www.icidal.com/xproject/news/marslife.html

The most famous was a low-resolution Mars image from 1976 that
appeared to show the face of a king or lion carved into a plateau
on the Cydonia Mensae. Speculation about the source of the face
kept the ancient-civilizations crowd exercised for 25 years,
until Mars Global Surveyor took a definitive pass over the site
with a high-resolution camera and proved it was a natural rock
formation.

Now that NASA has a couple of rovers on the planet (with more
planned), we're likely to see many more mysteries resolved with
equally prosaic explanations.

But somehow, it's a shame.









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                       Re: The Beveridge UFO - Hebert

From: Amy Hebert <vanguard.nul>
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 09:38:36 -0600
Fwd Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 14:30:12 -0500
Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO - Hebert


>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 01:22:02 -0400
>Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO

>>From: Amy Hebert <vanguard.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 10:33:38 >-0600
>>Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO

<snip>

Hi, Don:

I will pick up where I left off yesterday when I ran out of time
(if that's OK with you). Sorry.

>No Steve and Amy I don't see that same degree of Gibb's effect
>in other parts of the photo or mosquitoing-or ringing if you
>will as is surrounding the "object" and I'm betting no one else
>does either.

Can you see it now? (Can you hear me now? ;>)

http://a-realitycheck.com/whittleseaufo/GibbsEffect.htm

The Gibbs effect is in many places in the photograph and it is
clearest around objects contrasted against the sky.

>Many have been rushing in to show off their expertise re JPEG,
>MPEG and their vast experience of dealing with it. and is
>probably a satisfying way in which to stroke egos, but it
>doesn't do much for the study of the image does it? I want to
>see more and proof to boot. If this is an IFO, prove it. Don't
>just throw words around.

Don, I don't think anyone is 'showing off' their expertise any
more than you and many others are 'showing off' when drawing on
a vast knowledge base of information in other discussions. Do
you call using information and tools to support one's
contentions "ego stroking" when you or Dick or Bruce Maccabee do
it? And as for it not doing much for the study of the image,
many people have written to me via private E-mail as well as on
this list thanking me for my input as well as the input of
others along these lines.

I think everyone helps in analyses by bringing whatever talents
or skills they have to the table.

<snip>

>I never said, BTW, that we could determine the power source, but
>there is a real science in aerodynamics dealing with drag
>coefficients and the effect of the boundary layer on the
>aircraft's performance and speed.

This is true, Don, but what you said was:

"One of the reasons I don't like to blow this shot off is due to
the very nature of the "gaseous appearing" envelope surrounding
the object. Much can be learned from ordinary jet's exhausts of
the aircraft's performance and I believe that there is something
to the aura surrounding some UFO photos. Rather than being out
of focus perhaps this is some by- product of it's power source.
I made mention of this to Errol on SDI Saturday evening. I'm
sure there are some out there that can make much of that aura by
measuring light intensity, spectrum and what have you. What does
it look like in infrared for example? How is the envelope
refracting or filtering light passing through it?"

Perhaps you did not mean you could determine the power source
but you were referring to some kinds of analyses using the
'gaseous appearing' envelope surrounding the object in the
Whittlesea UFO photograph. I was responding to your reference by
pointing out the Gibbs effect involved and asked you how you
would separate the 'envelope' or "aura" from the digital noise
that surrounds the object to determine if any "by-products of
it's power source" were actually present.

I thought your suggestions of using light intensity, spectrum,
infrared, refraction, etc. were excellent ideas. I just don't
know how you would separate a possible envelope surrounding the
object from the mosquito noise (Gibbs effect) which also
surrounds the object. Wouldn't you want to do that before
measuring light intensity, spectrum, infrared, refraction, etc.?
I mean, if you don't separate the noise from the signal
(envelope in this case), how will you know you are not measuring
both the noise _and_ the signal (envelope) at the same time? How
accurate would the analysis be if at least some attempt is not
made to determine what is truly visible in the image and what is
merely distortion?

I'd really like to know how one would separate the digital noise
from the true image beneath or within of an unknown flying
object. Can anyone explain how this can be done? If we do this
first, then we could apply the various experiments/tests you
suggested, Don.

>There must be dozens of these types of photos around and I'd be
>real surprised to find MPEG compression problems on some of the
>older silver halide negatives.

I doubt negatives have many problems with the Gibbs effect or
mosquito noise since they are not digital. I have found there is
less Gibbs effect in the video stills and regular photographs I
have captured for the IFO Database than the images I captured
using my digital cameras (although these do have some noise due
to being compressed when scanned and converted to jpgs).

>Lastly, have a close look at your own pics Amy. You had to push
>the contrast to make the effect appear [which doesn't look
>anything like the object blurring incidentally] where in the
>Beveridge photo the blurring is in sharp contrast to the rez in
>the rest of the picture.


 (I forgot to indicate that I also decreased the brightness of
these images.) I did this, Don, to help designate the area of
Gibbs effect that _surrounds_ the object in the Whittlesea
photograph. Decreasing the brightness and increasing the
contrast makes the amount of Gibbs effect easier to see and
perhaps easier to measure. I would think this process would be a
useful tool now and in the future especially with all the
digital photographs and video footage of alleged UFO's we will
be analyzing due to the growing proliferation of digital
cameras. Of course you would not use this tool for analyzing any
blurring that may be present. But you would need to distinguish
between how much is actual blurring and what just looks like
blurring due to Gibbs effect and other digital noise.

There also appears to be an effect in this image that I've come
to recognize in many images I have acquired for the IFO Database
that involves a kind of "shadow" or dark base below an object
that is not really part of the object. I have found this "false
base" in images I have of IFO's so I know it is not part of
their original structure. It appears to be some sort of lens
flare but not necessarily the regular kinds of lens flare. I am
studying this effect and will let you know what I learn when I
have more information.

>Why do you suppose that dumb little Kodak picked only your "bug"
>to display the Gibbs effect. Ah,ah- motion doesn't count. The
>shutter speed stopped that. Just like it froze the left-side
>light signal blinking back and forth. No Gibbs effect there.

Uh, Don, take another look. Even the signals lights, as well as
many other objects in the photograph, display the Gibbs effect.

And please note that I have indicated the object could be many
things from a UFO to a flying insect (never said it looked like
a fly either - I tend to lean toward it possibly being a large
type of bee). The point is...we do not know what it is or is
not.

I never said motion does not count. I simply asked how you will
determine the difference between what's really going on and what
may be due to the gibbs effect/digital noise.

>Dan Bright's contrast and color enhancements seems to bring out
>some detail and even suggests a wing, but it looks much to
small >a surface area to sustain lift. A bee's wing area to body
weight >ratio is bad enough but even its wings are larger
proportionally >than what I see in the color enhancements.

Yes, if we look for details we know should exist if it were a
flying insect or airplane, etc. but are not entirely visible, we
might assume these details are not there. Again, I refer you to
the images of IFO's I asked you to analyze and tell me what you
thought they were from the photographs alone.

There are images of flying insects on that page. Can you see
the wings? The wings are visible if you know what you're
looking at. And...the wings seem much too small to sustain lift
for such a large body but they must work because it was flying
(it was quite close to the camera). I have found that images of
many ordinary flying objects become quite distorted (almost
beyond recognition) when frozen in time in a photograph or in
video stills. In photographs and in video footage the least
visible aspect on many flying insects are their wings - same for
airplanes, helicopter rotors, kite tails, strings on balloons,
bird wings, etc.

Welcome to my world, Don. <g>

A. Hebert







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                         Re: Off-Season UFOs - Hall

From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 15:47:45 +0000
Fwd Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 14:32:14 -0500
Subject: Re: Off-Season UFOs - Hall


>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 14:36:53 -0800
>Subject: Off-Season UFOs


>We pretty much know where UFOs are seen during the famous waves
>over the modern era. I put up a series of maps showing those,
>including:

>North America 1947:

>http://www.larryhatch.net/NAM47.html

>North America 1952:

>http://www.larryhatch.net/NAM52.html

>Europe, France especially in 1954

>http://www.larryhatch.net/EUR54.html

>...and others on this Maps Menu:

>http://www.larryhatch.net/MAPSMENU.html

>The question occurs, where are UFOs seem _between_ the major
>waves?

>To study this, I set up filters on my software to _exclude_ the
>following months/years:

>June-July 1947; Mar-Apr 1950; June-Sept 1952;
>Sept-Nov. 1954; November 1957; August 1965;
>March-April 1966; March 1967; July-Sept 1968;
>Oct-Nov 1973.

>I left the rest of the data in to study the remainder.

>Then, I ran off the following maps for

>North America:

>  http://www.larryhatch.net/NWMNAM.html

>South America:

>http://www.larryhatch.net/NWMSAM.html

>Europe:

>http://www.larryhatch.net/NWMEUR.html

>I haven't done a fine analysis of the new data yet, but it might
>be fun to compare and contrast those displays with the wave
>years maps.

>Maybe there are some discernible patterns to UFO sightings
>locations "off-season" versus the busiest periods.

>The three new maps are on my Thematic Maps menu here, along with
>some new decades maps:

>http://www.larryhatch.net/THEMEMAPS.html

>Comments are always welcome.

Larry,

Great minds think alike; or on parallel tracks anyway.

A few years ago I wrote an article for International UFO
Reporter studying exactly this question: What goes on in UFO
sighting "troughs" (as oposed to waves). The article was
available on the Center for UFO Studies web site for a long
time; I haven't looked lately.


 - Dick







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                Re: Physical Trace Events & 2003 Canadian UFO

From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 11:52:53 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 14:36:59 -0500
Subject: Re: Physical Trace Events & 2003 Canadian UFO


>From: Ted Phillips - I.A.I. <archaeoanom.nul-linc.net>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 17:52:36 -0600
>Subject: Physical Trace Events & 2003 Canadian UFO Survey

Hi Ted,

Nice to see you active. Hope you are well.

I was wondering if you had an email for Lucius Farish. I wanted
to contact him. EBK gave me an address that bounced back.

Take care and thanks for the Trace Report. Some of the best
reading I've done in months.

I've been racking my brain [now that you've mentioned it] trying
to recall any incident that I was aware of where there might
have been trace reports.

BTW-do you [or would you] consider cattle/animal mutilations as
a part of your trace evidence research?

I realize that there is no definitive evidence that these
mutilations are caused by "off-worlders" if you will, but if as
you say the numbers of trace reports and claims of actual
landings have fallen dramatically-could this imply a shift in
the MO of these things re interrelationships with us
terrestrials?


Best,

Don Ledger









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                       Re: The Beveridge UFO - Shough

From: Martin Shough <mshough.nul>
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 16:29:56 -0000
Fwd Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 14:39:06 -0500
Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO - Shough


>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
>Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 01:32:17 -0500
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO

<snip>

>The whole image has "soft" edges... suggesting poor focus. The
>left edge seems to be the most blurred, but the right is also
>considerably blurred.

<snip>

>Thus we might suggest an object moving to the left or right
>which is also slightly out of focus. This would probably suggest
>something close to the camera (to be out of focus), say a couple
>of feet away. It is true that the right edge seems a little less
>blurred than the left side, but this could be a result in the
>difference in lighting and/or a difference in reflectivity.

>Another possibility for overall image blur...that is, fuzziness
>all around, which doesn't require defocus is that an object
>moved toward or away from the camera, i.e., changed its radial
>distance.

Hello Bruce,

Permit me to paraphrase the argument in your long post: You
point out that there does appear to be a small amount of
blurring top and bottom in addition to the lateral motion blur.
You measure this vertical blur to be, shall we say, several
times as small as the lateral motion blur, and interpret it as
due to either poor focus or a _radial_ distance change. Since
poor focus implies proximity to the lens, and since the implied
_radial_ velocity would be something like twice the maximum
airspeed of a fast bird, your analysis appears to favour an
insect on either interpretation.

However another possibility for image blur on both vertical and
horizontal axes is object motion in both vertical and horizontal
planes. There is no reason why an object having (say) a 20 mph
major component of velocity left to right shouldn't have a minor
component in the up-down direction as well. Arguably, critters
such as insects _and_ birds typically do _not_ move perfectly
horizontally.  Vertical body motion up and down in reaction to
the force exerted by each wingbeat would probably be on the
order of 0.01" in 1/250 sec for a rate of a few beats/sec, and
thus negligible; but the bulk vertical motion required is after
all only a fraction of the acceleration due to gravity. A common
bird such as a pigeon can swoop at well over 40 knots. Therefore
a bird swooping left to right, descending at just a few ft/sec.,
could exhibit exactly such differential blurring.

Do you not agree that this can eliminate or substantially reduce
the radial motion you calculate as being required, and that
therefore your analysis no longer favours - on this ground at
least - an insect as opposed to a bird? As I pointed out in a
reply to Dan Bright there is also the question of the stopping
of 'wing' motion in 1/250 sec which appears to favour a wingbeat
period much longer than the period characteristic of an insect.

Finally, to that person who is reading this with a sigh and
asking "Why does it matter?" my answer is that if facts and
reason do not matter then nothing does. Some people were quite
excited about this 'domed saucer' picture when it first emerged.
There was talk of all that might be learned from it about
propulsion systems and so forth. The facts sure as hell mattered
then. Didn't they?


Martin Shough







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                      Re: The Beveridge UFO - Lehmberg

From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg.nul>
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 09:59:15 -0600
Fwd Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 14:41:15 -0500
Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO - Lehmberg


>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 23:33:43 -0400
>Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO

>>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 12:20:31 -0500
>>Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO


>All the trouble I go through, carefully choosing my make-up has
>paid off. And I've spent years tweaking my come-hither/heather
>look. Looks like it's finally paying off.


...And those nine-inch heels take their toll too, I'll bet,
forgetting that they make it look hard for you to run away.

You're _very_ fetching as it regards rippling calf muscles! <LOL>

Lehmberg.nul

EXPLORE "AlienViewGroup" at its HostPros URL.
http://www.alienview.net


JOHN FORD RESTORATION FUND -- John will be released eventually.
He'll need a tax free cash stake to get on his feet. Let's put
one together for him; the bigger it is -- the more attention he
gets. It could have been you. E-mail for detail. $450.00 pledged
-- $200.00 collected!

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see
from afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, scourged by
the scabrously specious scurrilous.






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               Re: Stupidity In The New Age Of Anti-Science -

From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 13:13:25 -0600
Fwd Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 14:42:32 -0500
Subject: Re: Stupidity In The New Age Of Anti-Science -


>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 01:07:16 -0800
>Subject: Re: Stupidity In The New Age Of Anti-Science

>>From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 16:12:54 -0600
>>Subject: Re: Stupidity In The New Age Of Anti-Science

>My main point remains that the majority of scientists,
>presumably all types, do not profess a belief in God. I'm
>surprised to find that about 40% actually do!

Hmm... I admit I made the statement without researching it,
although I thought I was accurately recalling some kind of study
done. The number that comes to mind is like 63-65%. Anyway, as
you point out, 40% is nothing to sneeze at. Achooo! Would
athiest sites be the best source for this figure? Is there any
neutral third party that can verify it?

>I hope the figures do not include "bible science" types.

I don't know. I would think not, but I suppose that requires a
little additional research. Those guys "scientifically
investigating" Noah's Ark or angels probably should be excluded.
Although... some are highly qualified and use standard
scientific methodology. Just because they're religious kooks
might not necessarily eliminate them from consideration.

And there are those angel investigators who tie them into UFOs
and other types of discoporate entities, so... <head scratch>







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                        Re: The Beveridge UFO - Velez

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 14:23:32 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 14:45:08 -0500
Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO - Velez


>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 11:23:13 -0500
>Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO

>>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 16:42:17 -0500
>>Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO

><snip>

>>I demand a public apology for the way you have spoken to me,
>>and as for _your_ 'alleged' credentials, I await copies.

You respond:

>No need to send me copies, as I am inclined to accept what you
>said.

It's easy to say that after the fact isn't it? You have been in
receipt of my credentials for two days.

Ray, you not only insulted my intelligence, you have insinuated
that I have been much less than honest about myself, my work
related experience and my education. In essence calling me a
liar. I have worked very hard for many years to gain the trust
and confidence of my peers. People who know me, know that there
is value to my 'word' and that I am a frank and honest person.
You seem to think that what you have done to me in public by
insulting my intelligence and implying that I have lied about my
background and education is somehow acceptable and 'no big
deal.' Well, I've got a news flash for you... it's not 'ok.'

For the last time, I _demand_ a public apology, (here, in the
same forum in which you insulted me and called into question my
honesty and intelligence) and I hope that it will be sincere.
You need to realize the gravity of what you have done. More, it
would be nice if you would assure me that it will not ever
happen again.

>As to apology, you have spoken much more harshly to me at
>times, but I have never demanded an apology from you.

Apologize for what? Because I told you in public (on this List)
what I thought of you for badmouthing, (gossiping about) Dick
Hall to me behind his back? I don't think very much of people
who behave the way you do, Ray and I said so. That is where all
this is coming from. I didn't want to hear what you had to say
and when you refused to stop I was forced to flag you on it in
public. It worked. You stopped.

Now, I hear from you again. And you are writing to me to infer;
a. that I am too stupid to understand the complicated nature of
the 'science' that you are involved in and that I have been less
than honest about my background and education. It just keeps
getting better and better every time I come into contact with
you.

>We both
>tend to 'shot from the hip'. But it would be nice if we can
>restrain ourselves from shooting at each other, because I think
>we're both fairly good shots. :)

Really? From where I sit, you missed me by a country mile. I
am _exactly_ who I say I am. You inferred otherwise. A public
apology is in order.

You are sadly mistaken about me. You were wrong.

Apologize - in public.


John Velez







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                  50 Years Ago The Coniston UFO Photograph

From: Chris Parr <cparr.nul>
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 19:27:11 -0000
Fwd Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 14:47:24 -0500
Subject: 50 Years Ago The Coniston UFO Photograph


On the 15th February 1954, 13 year old Steven Darbishire along
with his cousin Adrian Myers, managed to obtain a photograph of
an Adamski style Scout ship at Coniston Cumberland Lake District
UK. The photograph later went on to cause a media frenzy and the
case became an early predecessor to Ufological photographic
evidence.

Many years later, premier UK ufo researchers Dr Dave Clarke and
Andy Roberts had reinvestigated the Coniston UFO photograph and
their findings can be seen at:

http://www.flyingsaucery.com

which go on to reveal significant new evidence and testimony
which addresses the original investigation and ufological
influences from the period.

On August 28th 1977, at nearby Windermere, 10 police officers
had observed a diamond shaped UFO which was observed for 20
minutes.


Chris Parr
Cumbria Ufologist








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                 Re: Harrassment - Has It Happened To You? -

From: Geoffrey Richardson <geoff.nul>
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 19:43:38 -0000
Fwd Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 16:27:59 -0500
Subject: Re: Harrassment - Has It Happened To You? -


>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 06:38:20 -0800
>Subject: Re: Harrassment - Has It Happened To You?

>>From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 11:26:54 EST
>>Subject: Harrassment - Has It Happened To You?

>>Often we read or hear or watch on TV where witnesses to UFO
>>events, investigators and experiencers mention that they got a
>>'visit' either by persons posing as government officials or bona
>>fide government officials. Also stories of shadowy characters
>>who seem to know more than the average bear.

>>Is this a real situation or overblown?

Perhaps in past years it was necessary for "MIBs" (for want of a
better description) to actually visit people who were involved
in Ufology as an experiencer or researcher etc.

Nowadays these activities do not seem to be reported much at all.

Could it be that interested "agencies" (whether government/military
or civilian) are now in possession of such sophisticated and hi-tech
methods that they can investigate or even harass a target without
having to put in an appearance physically?

This could involve anything from recording telephone
conversations to amending or deleting personal records etc.

It would be quite easy to discredit someone or cause them to
lose a job if these methods were viable.


Geoff Richardson







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                      Re: The Beveridge UFO - Stanford

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 16:38:20 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 09:25:21 -0500
Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO - Stanford


>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 14:23:32 -0500
>Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO

>>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 11:23:13 -0500
>>Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO

>>>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 16:42:17 -0500
>>>Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO

>><snip>

>>>I demand a public apology for the way you have spoken to me,
>>>and as for _your_ 'alleged' credentials, I await copies.

>You respond:

>>No need to send me copies, as I am inclined to accept what you
>>said.

>It's easy to say that after the fact isn't it? You have been in
>receipt of my credentials for two days.

Sorry, John, but the image of your credential came as just from
"John" with the subject line, "For you". I get so many spams
these days from people who think I have both tensile and
dimensional needs with the masculine appendage, that I just
thought it was one of those and sent it into the delete file.

Only after I received another private communication from you
with Berveridge UFO in the subject line did I begin to realize
over a late dinner last night, that the deleted message might
have been from you, so when we got back home, I went to the
delete file and wrote you, privately: "Congratulations! I
believed you at your word with this morning's post from you,
but now I have before me the 'ocular evidence'."

I further said to you last evening, via email, privately:

"I only spoke of suspicions and did not call you a liar. Read it
again, but keep in mind that... that first letter was never
intended to be sent as I explained _on-list_, describing the
mistake of how it was accidentally sent. In fact, I can't
understand how Errol even mistakenly posted it because it
clearly was sent by me accidentally (Would you like to see a
copy of what got sent accidentally to Errol with all the stuff
from your letter retained at the bottom?), since it definitely
was not in keeping (because of all the text I left down at the
bottom) with his clearly delineated rules of submission, but
accidents and oversights happen."

That happened, however, so I think it incumbent upon me to
apologize for my private, off-the-cuff pondering, that
inadvertently got published in this List.

So, John, please accept my apology. I also want to apologize for
doubting (albeit only temporarily and intended privately) what
you had said about your training, for as I see on the
certificate from Long Island University School of Continuing
Studies, dated November, 1995, you satisfactorily completely and
satisfied all program requirements at their Computer Graphics
Training Center.

As I said last night and meant it, "Congratulations!" I am
positively impressed.

I certainly did not intend to insult your intelligence (even
when I sometimes question your reasoning), because you are
obviously among the real thinkers on this List, and I often find
myself in agreement with points or even complaints you make,
although at other times I differ.

Anyhow, John, you have my apology, my congratulations, and my
best wishes,


Ray Stanford

P.S.: And hey, List, my apology for inadvertently starting an
un-called-for mess. You will not have to put up with me much
longer, because soon I must be signing-off to get more serious
work done on three books, a couple of them with a fellow
ufologist-author. But I will remember each of you fondly,
whether you be believer, skeptic, serious researcher, friend,
enemy, critic, fellow-traveler, and whatever you might be. Tiwud
with good wishes to all.







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                       Re: The Beveridge UFO - Ledger

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 16:54:43 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 09:27:28 -0500
Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO - Ledger


>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 11:27:29 -0400
>Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO

<snip>

>If it was a conventional aircraft-and not a bird or bug - there
>would have been a sonic boom. The photographer would likely have
>been bleeding from the ears. The wake behind it would have been
>terrific. But if it was your classic exotic [thought-to-be]
>extraterrestrial craft there is no reason it would have to
>behave as do our earthbound aircraft.

>>Of course, if the picture was taken through the windshield of a
>>car (possible since the photographer took the picture from the
>>middle of the road and not the side of the road as one would
>>expect from a pedestrian), the object could still turn out to be
>>a bug - a squashed one!

>If memory serves the photographer was standing on the road
>[facing west].

>Incidentally, why was he taking pictures of the RR Crossing?

Just guessing, Don, but I was brought up in a little railroad
town, and from time to time engineers came by to certify that
the warning lights were functioning properly. Perhaps this
engineer was photographing the lights flashing to certify (To
his superiors who might have wanted photo documentation?) that
they had worked properly when the train passed?


Ray Stanford

"You know my method. It is founded upon the observance of
trifles." -- Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery







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   Feb > Feb 13

               Re: 50 Years Ago The Coniston UFO Photograph -

From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg.nul>
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 15:52:08 -0600
Fwd Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 09:30:10 -0500
Subject: Re: 50 Years Ago The Coniston UFO Photograph -


>From: Chris Parr <cparr.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 19:27:11 -0000
>Subject: 50 Years Ago - The Coniston UFO Photograph

>On the 15th February 1954, 13 year old Steven Darbishire along
>with his cousin Adrian Myers, managed to obtain a photograph of
>an Adamski style Scout ship at Coniston Cumberland Lake District
>UK. The photograph later went on to cause a media frenzy and the
>case became an early predecessor to Ufological photographic
>evidence.

>Many years later, premier UK ufo researchers Dr Dave Clarke and
>Andy Roberts had reinvestigated the Coniston UFO photograph and
>their findings can be seen at:

>http://www.flyingsaucery.com

>which go on to reveal significant new evidence and testimony
>which addresses the original investigation and ufological
>influences from the period.

>On August 28th 1977, at nearby Windermere, 10 police officers
>had observed a diamond shaped UFO which was observed for 20
>minutes.


Thanks Mr. Parr, for the heads up... but Mr. Andy Roberts was on
this List several weeks ago - a List he disparages everywhere
else, BTW - and made every indication via some provoked self-
disclosure regarding his clandestine 'activities', that we
can't trust a thing that drools from his mouth or dribbles from
his... pen. Verily, in the words of my ancestors (and by his own
admission) he is a prevaricating pelicanist who speaks with
forked beak... for the good of ufology and science, of course...
but misrepresentation, by any other name, _would_ smell as
sweet... which is not very, in the aggregate... I'll pass.

Lehmberg.nul

EXPLORE "AlienViewGroup" at its HostPros URL.
http://www.alienview.net


JOHN FORD RESTORATION FUND -- John will be released eventually.
He'll need a tax free cash stake to get on his feet. Let's put
one together for him; the bigger it is -- the more attention he
gets. It could have been you. E-mail for detail. $450.00 pledged
-- $200.00 collected!

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see
from afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, scourged by
the scabrously specious scurrilous.





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   Feb > Feb 13

              Re: Harrassment - Has It Happened To You? - White

From: Eleanor White <eleanor.nul>
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 17:33:32 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 09:42:49 -0500
Subject: Re: Harrassment - Has It Happened To You? - White


>From: Geoffrey Richardson <geoff.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 19:43:38 -0000
>Subject: Re: Harrassment - Has It Happened To You?

<snip>

>Could it be that interested "agencies" (whether government/military
>or civilian) are now in possession of such sophisticated and hi-tech
>methods that they can investigate or even harass a target without
>having to put in an appearance physically?

I can _guarantee_ that.


Eleanor White






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   Feb > Feb 13

             Re: "Birth Of Cloned Boy Medical Equivalent Of UFO

From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy.nul>
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 21:13:32 -0800
Fwd Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 09:49:57 -0500
Subject: Re: "Birth Of Cloned Boy Medical Equivalent Of UFO


>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 07:19:15 -0800
>Subject: "Birth Of Cloned Boy Medical Equivalent Of UFO Story"

>Source: China View

>http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2004-02/12/content_1311019.htm

>2004-02-12

>Australia: birth of cloned boy medical "UFO story"

<snip>

Hello, all.

Weekly world news headline:

Batboy Cloned In Australia!


GT McCoy







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                         Re: Off-Season UFOs - Hatch

From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 00:52:14 -0800
Fwd Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 10:34:20 -0500
Subject: Re: Off-Season UFOs - Hatch


>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 15:47:45 +0000
>Subject: Re: Off-Season UFOs

>>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 14:36:53 -0800
>>Subject: Off-Season UFOs

>>We pretty much know where UFOs are seen during the famous waves
>>over the modern era. I put up a series of maps showing those

<snip>,

>> ...and others on this Maps Menu:

>>http://www.larryhatch.net/MAPSMENU.html

>>The question occurs, where are UFOs seem between the
>>major waves?

>>To study this, I set up filters on my software to
>>_exclude_ the following months/years:

>>June-July 1947; Mar-Apr 1950; June-Sept 1952;
>>Sept-Nov. 1954; November 1957; August 1965;
>>March-April 1966; March 1967; July-Sept 1968;
>>Oct-Nov 1973.

>>I left the rest of the data to study the remainder.

>>Then, I ran off the following maps for

>>North America:
>> http://www.larryhatch.net/NWMNAM.html

>>South America:
>> http://www.larryhatch.net/NWMSAM.html

>>Europe:
>> http://www.larryhatch.net/NWMEUR.html

>>I haven't done a fine analysis of the new data yet, but it might
>>be fun to compare and contrast those displays with the wave
>>years maps.

>>Maybe there are some discernible patterns to UFO sightings
>>locations "off-season" versus the busiest periods.

>>The three new maps are on my Thematic Maps menu here,
>>along with some new decades maps:
>>http://www.larryhatch.net/THEMEMAPS.html

>>Comments are always welcome.

>Larry,

<snip>

>A few years ago I wrote an article for International UFO
>Reporter studying exactly this question: What goes on in UFO
>sighting "troughs" (as oposed to waves). The article was
>available on the Center for UFO Studies web site for a long
>time; I haven't looked lately.


Hello Sir Richard!

I did a Google Search and found your article still up on the
cohenufo website! (please repair URL wrap)

http://www.cohenufo.org/UFO%20Waves-Role%20of%20NICAP%20by%20Richard%20Hall.htm

It looks like an exact reprint of your IUR article for Winter,
1999.

There is a good list of sightings in the article, which
indicates to me that UFO activity doesn't stop completely. In
fact these are some of the better cases out there.

What seems to stop is media attention, public reaction and the
inevitable onslaught of low strangeness and poorly witnessed
accounts.

I still feel that the wave phenomenon has some objective
validity, but its hard to gauge that in a frenzied atmosphere
with every boob, nut and charlatan crawling out of the woodwork.

IF the wave phenomenon is valid, then the trough or drought
periods must have some meaning as well. I'm not talking
psychology or sociology here, though we had best factor in those
matters as well.

Whoever or whatever is responsible for the more credible UFO
sightings during a wave, would presumably be doing something
else during a trough. I can't speculate what that might be, not
publicly at least. Maybe over a nice bottle of red wine. [burp!]


Best wishes

- Larry








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                         Re: Off-Season UFOs - Hatch

From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 01:03:22 -0800
Fwd Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 10:35:33 -0500
Subject: Re: Off-Season UFOs - Hatch


>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 15:47:45 +0000
>Subject: Re: Off-Season UFOs

>>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 14:36:53 -0800
>>Subject: Off-Season UFOs

>A few years ago I wrote an article for International UFO
>Reporter studying exactly this question: What goes on in UFO
>sighting "troughs" (as oposed to waves). The article was
>available on the Center for UFO Studies web site for a long
>time; I haven't looked lately.


Hello again Dick:

I forgot something in my last message:

There is a second website which has reproduced your entire
article from IUR for Winter 1999:

http://www.ufoevidence.org/websites/site756.htm

The good news is the URL is short so it won't wrap and get cut
off.

The fair use notice at bottom reads:

"FAIR USE NOTICE: This page contains copyrighted material the
use of which has not been specifically authorized by the
copyright owner.  This website distributes this material without
profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving
the included information for research and educational purposes.
We believe this constitutes a fair use of any such copyrighted
material as provided for in 17 U.S.C =A7 107."


Best

- Larry








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               Re: 50 Years Ago The Coniston UFO Photograph -

From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 09:05:22 -0600
Fwd Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 10:38:00 -0500
Subject: Re: 50 Years Ago The Coniston UFO Photograph -


>From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 15:52:08 -0600
>Subject: Re: 50 Years Ago The Coniston UFO Photograph

>>From: Chris Parr <cparr.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 19:27:11 -0000
>>Subject: 50 Years Ago - The Coniston UFO Photograph

>>On the 15th February 1954, 13 year old Steven Darbishire along
>>with his cousin Adrian Myers, managed to obtain a photograph of
>>an Adamski style Scout ship at Coniston Cumberland Lake District
>>UK. The photograph later went on to cause a media frenzy and the
>>case became an early predecessor to Ufological photographic
>>evidence.

>>Many years later, premier UK ufo researchers Dr Dave Clarke and
>>Andy Roberts had reinvestigated the Coniston UFO photograph and
>>their findings can be seen at:

>>http://www.flyingsaucery.com

>>which go on to reveal significant new evidence and testimony
>>which addresses the original investigation and ufological
>>influences from the period.

>Thanks Mr. Parr, for the heads up... but Mr. Andy Roberts was
>on this List several weeks ago - a List he disparages everywhere
>else, BTW - and made every indication via some provoked self-

>disclosure regarding his clandestine 'activities', that we
>can't trust a thing that drools from his mouth or dribbles from
>his... pen.

I've always been wary of admitted hoaxes. I guess I'm just a
hardened skeptic who doesn't believe anybody, no matter what
they say.

I wonder why someone's admission of a hoax is so much more often
readily accepted than that someone's initial claim. Particularly
when it's proven they often have much more motivation to take
back their claim after they've had a strong dose of unwelcome
attention from the authorities and the fringies.

Also (in a neat little bit of circular logic), if a person is so
untrustworthy as to create a hoax, if they've shown themselves
to be horrible liars, why do they suddenly become trustworthy
when they admit it?

I guess we're much more likely to believe people when they're
telling us things we want to hear.







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                          Secrecy News -- 02/13/04

From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood.nul>
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 10:10:18 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 10:40:35 -0500
Subject: Secrecy News -- 02/13/04


SECRECY NEWS
from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy
Volume 2004, Issue No. 18
February 13, 2004


**      GEORGE WASHINGTON, DIRECTOR OF MILITARY INTELLIGENCE
**      ABRAHAM LINCOLN ON SOLDIERS AWOL
**      THE IRAQ INTELLIGENCE INVESTIGATIONS
**      US HIGHLY ENRICHED URANIUM ABROAD
**      US INTELLIGENCE ON SOVIET SPACE PROGRAMS


GEORGE WASHINGTON, DIRECTOR OF MILITARY INTELLIGENCE

"General George Washington, as Commanding General of the
Continental Army... literally became America's first director
of military intelligence," according to a research paper
prepared by a US Marine Corps graduate student. "He directed the
operations that were conducted, and performed his own analysis."

"The Continental Army's effectiveness in intelligence includes
examples of the proper use of espionage, counterintelligence,
communications security, codebreaking, deception, operational
security, surveillance, reconnaissance, reporting and analysis."

Uncritical and naive in presentation ("Sun Tzu said it quite
well"), the author nevertheless provides a convenient
introduction to his chosen subject, and references to more
complete and discriminating accounts.

See "George Washington, America's First Director of Military
Intelligence" by LCDR Michael S. Prather, Marine Corps
University, Quantico, Virginia, 2002:

http://www.fas.org/irp/eprint/prather.pdf


ABRAHAM LINCOLN ON SOLDIERS AWOL

President of the United States. Absent without leave. Deserters.

These terms, much in the news lately, may have first appeared
together in close proximity in an 1863 proclamation by President
Abraham Lincoln, who ordered all soldiers who were absent
without leave to promptly return to duty and promised amnesty if
they did.

"All soldiers now absent from their respective regiments without
leave, who shall, on or before the first day of April, report
themselves... may be restored to their respective regiments
without punishment, except the forfeiture of pay and allowances
during their absence; and all who do not return within the time
above specified shall be arrested as deserters, and punished as
the law provides," President Lincoln declared.

See A Proclamation by the President of the United States
Respecting Soldiers absent without leave, March 10, 1863:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/othergov/dod/awol.pdf


THE IRAQ INTELLIGENCE INVESTIGATIONS

"The independent commission President Bush has appointed to look
at the failure of intelligence in our country will never, ever
be accepted for a number of reasons, not only the breadth and
scope of the investigation but because of the co-chair, Laurence
Silberman."

So said Senator Harry Reid (D-NV) in a pointed critique of the
new White House advisory panel on intelligence on February 11.

Sen. Reid singled out Judge Silberman, the new panel co-chair,
as a particularly objectionable figure, calling him "a long-time
political operative in the far right of the Republican Party."
See:

http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/2004_cr/s021104.html

Judge Silberman rejected that characterization in an interview
with the Los Angeles Times, published February 12.

"My whole career is one of independence and integrity," he said.
"I have been confirmed six times by the U.S. Senate without a
negative vote."

President Bush yesterday named the last two members of the nine-
member intelligence advisory panel, Charles M. Vest and Henry S.
Rowen. See:

http://www.fas.org/irp/news/2004/02/wh021204.html

While the new White House panel is purely advisory and has no
authority to investigate the White House, the Senate
Intelligence Committee yesterday agreed to expand its review to
include an examination of how Administration officials publicly
presented intelligence concerning Iraq, as reported today in the
Los Angeles Times and the Washington Post.


US HIGHLY ENRICHED URANIUM ABROAD

Over the past fifty years, the U.S. has exported, and failed to
recover, tons of weapons-grade highly enriched enriched uranium
(HEU) to foreign countries as part of the Atoms for Peace
program.

Because HEU is used principally in research and test reactors,
not power reactors, it is often located in low-security civilian
facilities such as universities. This material therefore poses
an extraordinary proliferation hazard, due to the threat of
theft or diversion. A first generation nuclear explosive can be
devised with no more than a few tens of kilograms of HEU.

According to a new report from the Department of Energy
Inspector General, the U.S. has neglected to take all necessary
steps to recover and secure such material.

"As of August 2003, the Department was likely to recover only
about half of the approximately 5,200 kilograms of HEU" that it
set out to recover in a 1996 initiative.

"Moreover, there was no effort to recover an additional 12,300
kilograms of HEU dispersed to foreign countries which was not
included" in the 1996 program.

See "Recovery of Highly Enriched Uranium Provided to Foreign
Countries," DOE Inspector General Audit Report, February 9 (1 MB
PDF file):

http://www.fas.org/irp/agency/doe/ig-heu.pdf


US INTELLIGENCE ON SOVIET SPACE PROGRAMS

Life will be discovered on Mars, the CIA predicted.
Unfortunately, it will be communist!

As late as 1989, the CIA estimated that it was "likely" that the
soon-to-collapse Soviet Union would undertake a manned mission
to Mars.

"We believe the Soviets are planning for a manned Mars landing
mission some time after the year 2000," the CIA analysis stated.

See "Soviet Options for a Manned Mars Landing Mission," CIA
Directorate of Intelligence, December 1989, released in
"sanitized" form in 1999, here:

http://www.fas.org/irp/cia/product/sovmars.pdf

Numerous declassified intelligence documents on the Soviet space
program, from the early 1960s to the early 1990s, have been
declassified and disclosed by the CIA. A selection of such
documents (thanks to Jeff Brower and AT) may be found here:

http://www.fas.org/irp/cia/product/index.html#sovsp

Anyone with even a passing interest in the history of Soviet
space will want to get a copy of "The Moon Race End Game: A New
Assessment of Soviet Crewed Lunar Aspirations, Part 1" by Peter
Pesavento and Charles P. Vick, in the current issue of Quest
Magazine (volume 11, no. 1, 2004).

The authors take full advantage of the latest declassified
documents and, by interviews with government officials, go
beyond what is in the declassified record.

The article is not available online, but information about Quest
Magazine may be found here:

http://www.spacebusiness.com/quest/


_______________________________________________
Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the
Federation of American Scientists.

To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to
secrecy_news-request.nul
with "subscribe" in the body of the message.

To UNSUBSCRIBE, send a blank email message to
secrecy_news-remove.nul

OR email your request to saftergood.nul

Secrecy News is archived at:
http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html

_______________________
Steven Aftergood
Project on Government Secrecy
Federation of American Scientists
web:  www.fas.org/sgp/index.html
email: saftergood.nul
voice: (202) 454-4691







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   Feb > Feb 14

                    Re: Review Of Sight Unseen - Bourdais

From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais.nul>
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 16:42:22 +0100
Fwd Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 03:36:11 -0500
Subject: Re: Review Of Sight Unseen - Bourdais


>From: Luis R. Gonzalez <lrgm.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 21:51:14 +0100
>Subject: Re: Review Of Sight Unseen


>>From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 16:40:51 +0100
>>Subject: Re: Review Of Sight Unseen

<snip>

>>Mr Gonzalez has just made on this List a demonstration of
>>wishful thinking and a priori judgement, regarding the story of
>>Katharina Wilson, whom we must all thank to have put the record
>>straight. Mr Gonzalez is not in a good position to question a
>>researcher like Budd Hopkins, to say the least.

>Now, at last, I understand the mistake. All of you have been
>thinking I was trying to explain away the missing time, and
>consequently, all the incident.

>Nothing would be farther from my intentions. There is clearly
>missing time. Period.

>I consider it to be below half an hour, but nevertheless, there
>is. Of course, we will never agree about its interpretation, but
>must agree to disagree.

>What I was really trying was to explain away the alleged
>subsequent teleportation from the pay phones to the luggage
>reclaim area. Just that, nothing more.

>Of course, if as Katharina said, when she talked with her
>husband from the airport, she opened the conversation saying she
>_was_ at the airport, her husband's answer makes perfect sense.
>But from there on, I still maintain my position: no
>teleportation there.

To Luis and the List,

So, you admit that there was a missing time, but you reject the
hypothesis of a teleportation. It is your right to do so, but,
when reading again your posts, I don't see any clear argument
against it. I am not saying that the teleportation is proven
either. But there is a strange time effect!

Katharina said that, apparently, she crossed the airport in a
very short time, and she does not remember exactly how.

Her watch showed the same time of 3:20. when she arrived at the
luggage claim area. You said yourself, in your message of Feb 1,
that it should take at least 15 minutes, in any big airport.

Then you admit that she could have been teleported:

"Then, 'they' discover their time-machine also did not work
properly and teleported her to the luggage claim area".

Now, what argument do you propose against it?

In your message of Feb 7, you "bid for a simpler EM effect
(clock stoppage), because teleportation would not be enough, it
should have been time travel!"

Sorry, but I don't understand. You seem to propose now an
stranger hypothesis!

>>Having finished to read his book, I confirm my opinion that it
>>is a very interesting contribution. The last part offers thoughts
>>about the question of genetic manipulations, and possibly
>>related cattle mutilations.

>So, Mr. Hopkins, after years of talking about hybridation
>experiments with all those sexual variations (from plain "love
>making" to sperm and ova painful extractions), now changes road
>and maintain that the quid were instead all those "scoop marks",
>collecting tissues to make gene tranfers.

This time, you remark is pure caricature of a rich and complex
book. Actually, Budd Hopkins and Carol Rainey, in their 'Final
Words', present somewhat differing viewpoints.

That, alone, shows that they don't claim to have all the
answers.

Budd does not "change road", and does not "maintain".

He just presents and discusses, with Carol, a bunch of
interesting ideas.


Gildas Bourdais








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                         Re: Off-Season UFOs - Shell

From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 09:53:41 -0600
Fwd Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 03:38:37 -0500
Subject: Re: Off-Season UFOs - Shell


>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 00:52:14 -0800
>Subject: Re: Off-Season UFOs

>>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 15:47:45 +0000
>>Subject: Re: Off-Season UFOs

<snip>

>>A few years ago I wrote an article for International UFO
>>Reporter studying exactly this question: What goes on in UFO
>>sighting "troughs" (as oposed to waves). The article was
>>available on the Center for UFO Studies web site for a long
>>time; I haven't looked lately.

>Hello Sir Richard!

>I did a Google Search and found your article still up on the
>cohenufo website! (please repair URL wrap)

>http://www.cohenufo.org/UFO%20Waves-Role%20of%20NICAP%20by%20Richard%20Hall.htm

>Whoever or whatever is responsible for the more credible UFO
>sightings during a wave, would presumably be doing something
>else during a trough. I can't speculate what that might be, not
>publicly at least. Maybe over a nice bottle of red wine. [burp!]

It's a very impressive bit of data analysis. Has it shown any
predictive value yet? For instance, is there a flying saucer
that shows up at 10:15 PM every third Valentine's Day over Des
Moines, Iowa?

I don't know what kind of pattern analysis program would be
necessary to find that out. I imagine something like those radio
signal pattern detectors used by SETI. It would be fun to find
some recurring patterns, check them against things like solar
flares, el Nino activity, butterfly migrations, etc. Then I'd be
ready with my good old Kodak Stereo camera.

Fun!








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                       Re: Off-Season UFOs - Dickenson

From: Ray Dickenson <editor.nul>
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 16:17:37 +0000
Fwd Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 03:42:41 -0500
Subject: Re: Off-Season UFOs - Dickenson


>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 00:52:14 -0800
>Subject: Re: Off-Season UFOs

>I still feel that the wave phenomenon has some
>objective validity, but its hard to gauge that
>in a frenzied atmosphere with every boob, nut
>and charlatan crawling out of the woodwork.

Yup, like "crime figures" - only vice versa - "Crime figures"
are _reports_. Not only that, but they're collated by agencies
that (now) profit from inflating/uprating those reports.

Whereas forty or so years ago those same agencies -
police/ media/politicals - profited by _deflating_ crime
figures.

Result: violence has decreased by 50% or so (objective fact -
less dead bodies lying around) but "violent crime figures" go
through the roof.

http://www.perceptions.couk.com/dethrates.txt

UK Gov't have found a more "objective" (w/ lower figures)
assessment of crime using the annual crime survey - a
questionnaire based work.

D'you think we'll ever get that in UFO matters?

Cheers

Ray D

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Perceptions" http://www.perceptions.couk.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~







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               Re: 50 Years Ago The Coniston UFO Photograph -

From: Steven Kaeser <steve.nul>
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 11:48:00 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 03:44:11 -0500
Subject: Re: 50 Years Ago The Coniston UFO Photograph -


>From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 09:05:22 -0600
>Subject: Re: 50 Years Ago The Coniston UFO Photograph

<snip>

>I've always been wary of admitted hoaxes. I guess I'm just a
>hardened skeptic who doesn't believe anybody, no matter what
>they say.

>I wonder why someone's admission of a hoax is so much more often
>readily accepted than that someone's initial claim. Particularly
>when it's proven they often have much more motivation to take
>back their claim after they've had a strong dose of unwelcome
>attention from the authorities and the fringies.

>Also (in a neat little bit of circular logic), if a person is so
>untrustworthy as to create a hoax, if they've shown themselves
>to be horrible liars, why do they suddenly become trustworthy
>when they admit it?

>I guess we're much more likely to believe people when they're
>telling us things we want to hear.

I think the issue is that no one has the ability to listen with
a completely open mind and uses their own beliefs, faith and
training to filter all information they absorb. Unidentified
events that don't fit the expected pattern are viewed with
skepticism, while the later admissions that it was all a hoax
would tend to let it fit those expected norms.

In the early days of ufology there were a number of researchers
who began the process of testing the public by creating hoaxes
to see how they would react. In the end (for some of them) their
area of interest evolved from the identification of unknowns to
the public's reaction to them. Gray Barker was one such
researcher, and his work is today considered suspect because he
became involved in hoaxing UFOs.

IMO, there's probably value in testing public perceptions, and
how our view of reality impacts our ability to view data with an
open mind. Unfortunately, UFO researchers seem to have their own
areas of interest and most are leary of opening that
psychological can of worms.


Steve








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                         Re: Space Ghost - Maccabee

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 12:47:11 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 03:45:37 -0500
Subject: Re: Space Ghost - Maccabee


>From: Louise A. Lowry <ShnSassy1.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 06:22:51 -0600
>Subject: Space Ghost

>Source: The Pitch - Kansas City

>http://www.pitch.com/issues/2004-02-05/strip.html/1/index.html

>February 12, 2004


>Space Ghost
>What if Bob Lindsay abducted an alien and no one cared?

>As Told to Tony Ortega

>feedback.nul

>Talk about flyover country. Now even Kansas City's UFOs are
>getting no respect.

>It's been nearly three weeks since Bob Lindsay spotted something
>falling out of the sky on a security monitor at the TriGen power
>plant downtown.

I wonder if this is Ortega is the same guy who did  big hatchet
job on Diletoso and the Phoenix Lights back in 1997 or 1998.








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                       Re: UN Petition Update - Velez

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 16:28:42 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 03:59:29 -0500
Subject: Re: UN Petition Update - Velez


Hello All,

The number of signatures on the UN Petition for UFO info
disclosure stands at, 4202. Not bad. But it could be much
better. Please read and sign the petition if you haven't done so
already. Tell others about it. People cannot sign it if they do
not know it exists.

The number of signatures from countries such as France, Italy,
Germany, the USA and Mexico stand out among the rest. If we can
spread the word about the petition in countries like China,
which shows a popular interest in the subject of UFOs it could
help to put us over the top in no time flat.

It took the better part of five years for the 'Roswell Petition'
to gather about 30,000 signatures. I am beginning to suspect
that it will take about as long for us to gather a similar number
of signatures for the UN petition. No worries, we'll just do what
we have to do to make it a success.

Spread the word! Tell everyone you know to check it out. The
URL appears at the bottom of each and every post that issues
forth from UFO UpDates. Just click on the link and you're there!
Couldn't be easier. ;)


Regards,

John Velez








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                  Fatima & UFOs [was Re: The Beveridge UFO]

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 16:56:14 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 04:06:38 -0500
Subject: Fatima & UFOs [was Re: The Beveridge UFO]


>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 22:34:35 +0000
>Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO

>>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 12:20:31 -0500
>>Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO

<snip>

>>Personally I suspect it's a 'pain-in-the-ass' to CSICOPians when
>>they see that at least some pro-UFO people are not beating our
>>chests over ambiguous things in photos that look like they could
>>easily be explained as speeding bugs, and suggesting they are
>>domed discs or something to waste time over pondering endlessly
>>in hopes of some great revelation.

>>Ray Stanford

And Dick Hall responded:

>Coming from the "Great Revelator" who in the past has, contacted
>aliens through his mental powers, communicated with the
>"Brothers," regaled us with the "secret of Fatima," etc., this
>is most amusing. He sure has wasted our time with his "psychic"
>pretensions, and now masquerades as the Most Scientific of Us
>All.

>Sorry; not being a good Brother I have broken my monkish vow of
>silence, and guess that I will have to do penance.

That sounds like a familiar chant from the old monk coming out
of his "vow of silence". I'm starting to enjoy its charm, like
listening to a Gregorian chant or maybe a Tibetan Buddhist
mantra.

Well, thank you, Dick, for this opportunity. Today seems
appropriate to comment on things related to the Fatima
apparitions, because they were also on the 13th of the month.

When I was employed as a research psychic by the Association for
The Understanding of Man, I was requested to give 'readings'
from a self-induced state, guided by the suggestion of a
'readings conductor' who directed my unconscious to discuss the
then undisclosed 'secret of Fatima'. My unconscious was asked to
attune with the 'secret of Fatima' that had been withheld by the
Roman Catholic church and to describe it to those present. Quite
a challenge?

No way anyone could possibly do that successfully, is there,
Dick?

"Psychic pretentions", you say. No pretense at all. Yes, I gave
readings, over three decades ago, on 'the secret of Fatima', and
there are some indisputable facts that interested List members
might enjoy knowing, so please allow me to first ask our patient
readers:

Wouldn't it have been interesting if some psychic had actually
told the world on August 12, 1971, during the tenure of the Paul
VI, that an assassination attempt on the life of the second pope
thereafter (John Paul II) was a significant part of the secret
of Fatima, publishing it nine years before the event and while
it was still a deep secret of the Roman Catholic hierarchy?

Wouldn't it be interesting if the predicted assassination
attempt were to occur on May 13, 1981 (the 65th anniversary of
the first Fatima event of May 13, 1916) as if in confirmation
that such was the secret, and if the Pope were to confirm that?

Well, my readings on Fatima predicted exactly that, ten years
and, again, nine years ahead of time.

Can I absolutely prove that? Of course:

The transcriptions of those 1971 and 1972 Fatima readings
through me were published in 1972 in hard-cover under the title,
FATIMA PROPHECY (Association for the Understanding of Man, 1972.
See pages 64-65 and 137-139.), years before Pope John Paul II
was shot in Vatican Square on May 13, 1981! Last I heard, the
book was still in print after all these years, as a mass-market
soft cover, published by Ballentine Books, N.Y. (See pages 98-99
and 190-192 in the mass-market version.)

In fact, on May 13,1981, I was driving to the post office in
Austin, Texas, when news of John Paul II having been shot came
over the radio and I thought, "Oh my God! The readings were
right!"

For over a week my phone rang repeatedly with calls from people
saying things like, "Ray! Do you realize that your readings
predicted exactly that Pope's being shot, that it was part of
the secret of Fatima, and it happened on a Fatima anniversary,
as if in confirmation!"

The final confirmation came recently, when John Paul II,
himself, declared that the attempt on his life had been the
fulfillment of the 'secret of Fatima', precisely confirming what
was said in my readings and those of no one else.

John Paul II even pointed out that the assassination attempt was
on the 65th anniversary of the very first apparition at Fatima.

Indeed, having been the only psychic in the world to have
accurately revealed and published the 'secret of Fatima' (as
recently defined by Pope John Paul II), even while the church
held it in secret, makes me confident that contrary to what Dick
Hall seemingly wants List members to believe, I have reason to
respect my psychic ability.

Furthermore, thousands of persons, worldwide, who read the book
containing those readings wrote to say that my readings on the
Fatima secret were, for them, inspiring and life-changing for
the better. I doubt that means a thing to Dick Hall, but it
surely does to me. We have different life values, apparently.

Of course, such declarations by readers are a subjective
evaluation on their part, but the accuracy of my readings'
definition of the deepest 'secret of Fatima' (as now defined by
Pope John Paul II) cannot be in dispute, because the book was in
the U.S. Library of Congress (and in thousands of persons'
homes) years before the Pope was shot on May 13, 1981.

I by no means believe all the 'teachings' in my Fatima readings
and don't think others should, but their accuracy about 'the
Fatima secret', per se, cannot be disputed, since Pope John Paul
II has confirmed that his attempted assassination was, in fact,
the secret, and the date was, meaningfully, the 65th anniversary
of the very first apparition in a field near the town of Fatima,
Portugal.

So, Dick, you have repeatedly tried to discredit me because
several decades ago I gave psychic readings, but I don't think
that is an objective way to access my contributions to human
welfare or even science, be it in Ufology or in Paleontology,
which are really separate issues from religious, spiritual
concerns, or psychic ability. No one is perfect, and I do not
pretend to be, yet I think it only fair to ask that my
contributions to science be evaluated in and of themselves,
without regard to private beliefs you imagine I might have held
in the past.

I am not the wide-eyed, subjective guy you seem to want others
to believe me to be, Dick. Soon after I moved to the D.C. area
my wife and I enjoyed having you out to dinner and then over to
our home afterward. Sometime in the visit, you candidly
declared, "Ray, you are as big a mystery as the UFOs,
themselves!" Truth is, I kind of liked that; but, if you really
meant it (and I believe you did), I suggest you quit pretending
to have me figured out, because you simply haven't a clue as to
the real me.

Does one ask a biologist his religious beliefs or religion
before reading his scientific paper? Does one ask that of a
physicist? Of course not! If you have any evidence that my or
anyone's contributions should not be examined free of prejudice
concerning our personal world-views or religions, I suggest you
present it now or cease the innuendo for sake of your own
credibility.

If you have some private revelation that psychic ability or
phenomena are non-existent and that those who may believe in or
experience them are somehow hopelessly flawed, then that, in
itself, is a religious revelation that you might want to hide in
your pantry with cupcakes or pipe tobacco.

If, on the other hand, you have a testable hypothesis supporting
that, I suggest you publish it for peer review. Otherwise, you
are no better than Pat Robertson, preaching that psychic
phenomena are the work Satan.

But, thanks for bringing up the subject. As a result, maybe some
readers have learned something that they might find interesting.

And for those of you who got through it, thanks for 'listening'.


Ray Stanford

"You know my method. It is founded upon the observance of
trifles." -- Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery







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             Re: 50 Years ago The Coniston UFO Photograph - Parr

From: Chris Parr <cparr.nul>
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 22:48:03 -0000
Fwd Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 04:10:52 -0500
Subject: Re: 50 Years ago The Coniston UFO Photograph - Parr


I am amazed that so called UFO researchers cannot accept the
version of events from the adult testimony of the principle UFO
witness Steven Darbishire and prefer to cling to the induced
testimony of the same witness when he was a 13 year old child.

Maybe the witness was the victim of MIB harassment from the
Flying Saucery Squad (F.S.S)

In an apparent hate campaign against leading UK researcher Andy
Roberts,Mr Lehmberg makes a prolonged and desperate attempt to
ignore genuine ufo revelations and testimony in order to fit his
contrived and banal ufo perspective.

Maybe Mr Lehmberg's opinion of the Coniston UFO is reliant on
the book " UFO'`s and how to see them " by Jenny Randles in
which the author states that in 1991, witness Steven Darbishire
maintains his version of events from 15-2-1954.

You could also add to all this, the claims by author Timothy
Good in his best selling "Beyond Top Secret" that Darbishire
stood by his witness testimony and did not wish to elabarote on
the event any further.

If we applied the train of thought that you had to rely on
immediate testimony to ufo cases and incidents then rationality
and objectivity would not exist.

I would be very surprised if UK ufologists did not recognise the
significant findings of the Coniston UFO photograph case by
Messrs Clarke and Roberts and I encourage anybody in the UK to
condemn or support this factual approach to genuine UFO
research.


Chris Parr







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                 Re: Harrassment - Has It Happened To You? -

From: Geoffrey Richardson <geoff.nul>
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 01:33:03 -0000
Fwd Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 04:13:34 -0500
Subject: Re: Harrassment - Has It Happened To You? -


>From: Eleanor White <eleanor.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 17:33:32 -0500
>Subject: Re: Harrassment - Has It Happened To You?

>>From: Geoffrey Richardson <geoff.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 19:43:38 -0000
>>Subject: Re: Harrassment - Has It Happened To You?

><snip>

>>Could it be that interested "agencies" (whether government/military
>>or civilian) are now in possession of such sophisticated and hi-tech
>>methods that they can investigate or even harass a target without
>>having to put in an appearance physically?

>I can _guarantee_ that.

>>Yes, but when do the agencies concerned become concerned
>>enough to "intimidate" someone?

>I am aware of a "Ufologist" who, over a period of two to three
>years, experienced a great deal of intimidation from presumably
>a group with an extraordinary methods and facilities available
>to them. Initially I admit that I had doubts as to whether
>anything was actually happening - I was wrong, no doubt in my
>mind about that. Yet, there did not seem to be anything the
>person was aware of or involved with that could warrent such
>attention.


At what point do they start taking an interest?

Geoff Richardson







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                Yukon UFO Buff Fascinated By The Unexplained

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 04:19:44 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 04:19:44 -0500
Subject: Yukon UFO Buff Fascinated By The Unexplained





Source: The Whitehorse Daily Star - Yukon, Canada

http://www.whitehorsestar.com/storyDetail.lasso?r=3D48398



UFO Buff Fascinated By The Unexplained
by Chuck Tobin

UFOs continue to drive Lorraine Bretlyn's curiosity.

So too, however, do stories of Big Foot and pretty much anything
paranormal.

And there is no shortage of them.

As the mainstay behind the local paranormal network, Bretlyn
runs advertisements in the classified ads asking for accounts of
anything seemingly inexplicable.

Responses are steady, and provide Bretlyn with more material
than she's able to investigate. She finds it hard to even cover
off her own files and personal experiences.

She points to a picture her partner, Dave Lavoie, took on Grey
Mountain while they were up there exploring a cave that's
popular with hikers.

The image superimposed on the landscape photograph looking south
from the mountainside is spherical, with three other small
spherical images inside.

There was nothing there when the picture was taken, she insists,
and suggests the image is too perfect to be sun flare from the
lens.

Bretlyn says to the untrained eye, a photograph might just be
another photograph. To her, however, they can be clear evidence
of paranormal activity.

She points to a night time picture dominated by what most would
see as snowflakes. She says without hesitation, and with no fear
of ridicule, that they are dinner bells. At a second glance,
they look like bells.

A friend who passed away recently gave Bretlyn a set of dinner
bells before she died.

Photographs of the three remaining houses in the Shipyards area
have produced some of the most active scenes of the paranormal,
says the 50-year-old audio-metric technician.

But so too has the Fish Lake Road site of the Pueblo Mine
tragedy of 1917.

"Even some of the older buildings around town were obviously
important to somebody or something, because I do get paranormal
things showing up there."

In another photo she took of a friend of hers, she points to a
speck in the sky she remembers nothing of when the picture was
snapped.

Enlarged, it clearly shows dimensions not typical of any common
aircraft.

Bretlyn once lived next door to Martin Jasek. He was among those
largely responsible for starting up the monthly UFO column
published in the Star. The column ended when Jasek moved south.

"He was a closet ufologist," Bretlyn quips. She helped push him
out into the light after she struck up a conversation with him
when she noticed he had carved his Halloween pumpkin in the
shape of an alien.

Bretlyn continues her campaign for stories of the unexplainable
with her P.I.G. Publications =96 Paranormal Information Gathering.

Though having something of a broader focus, she still gets
regular reports of UFOs, like the one she witnessed a couple of
weeks ago along the Fish Lake Road.

She and Lavoie decided to check out a tip at about 9 p.m. They
had received a call from an Arkell resident who had been
watching an object through a telescope.

Sure enough, recalls Bretlyn, they witnessed an immobile object
that then moved and reappeared, in a fashion that was
inexplicable by any of today's common standards.

"I can't ID it; it is in the air and it is not a jet, so chalk
it down and it is a UFO," she said. "At the same time, people in
Arkell were watching it with a telescope.

"We had quite a few calls from around that area."

The interest among Yukoners in UFOs was quite apparent when, in
the fall of 2000, the UFO society hosted a conference on the
subject. It was sold out =96 standing room only, as it was
estimated more than 300 people attended at one point or another.

There is too, however, the terrestrial unexplained.

"One year, we had almost 100-per-cent Big Foot stories," Bretlyn
said.

One of the callers, she said, wanted to know if she could make a
foot cast.

"And they were all different," she said of the Big Foot reports.
"And the most interesting one was from the Fish Lake Road."

But Bretlyn pointed out she's received a report from a Dawson
City woman who was most taken by footprints she came across in
the Tombstones area.

Whether it's in the sky, on the ground or in another plane,
Bretlyn says, there remains a keen interest among Yukoners in
the paranormal. Some are not adverse to speaking of their
feelings, and others are still shy about sharing their
experiences.

In any case, says Bretlyn, P.I.G. Publications is still there,
and so is her interest in the unexplainable.



All content =A91997-2004 star.nul






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                            1956 Lunar Path Light

From: Ted Phillips, I.A.I. <archaeoanom.nul-linc.net>
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 09:53:07 -0600
Fwd Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 04:59:09 -0500
Subject: 1956 Lunar Path Light


I found this in the files and thought it might be of interest.

The image at:

http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/ufoupdates/listers/ted/56moonufo.html

was taken by a good friend, professor of astronomy at a college
in 1956. He gave me the negative and this print before getting
rid of the rest. He was afraid of ridicule.

He used the observatory refractor (a 16 or 18 inch - can't
remember). He was getting ready to image the moon and saw this
bright circular light moving across the lunar path, waited until
it was on the terminator for max contrast.


Ted









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               Re: 50 Years ago The Coniston UFO Photograph -

From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg.nul>
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 04:31:57 -0600
Fwd Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 06:40:20 -0500
Subject: Re: 50 Years ago The Coniston UFO Photograph -


>From: Chris Parr <cparr.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 22:48:03 -0000
>Subject: Re: 50 Years ago The Coniston UFO Photograph

<snip>

>In an apparent hate campaign against leading UK researcher Andy
>Roberts,Mr Lehmberg makes a prolonged and desperate attempt to
>ignore genuine ufo revelations and testimony in order to fit his
>contrived and banal ufo perspective.

"Prolonged and desperate," Mr. Parr, I think more accurately
describes a belligerent attempt by Mr. Roberts to recapture
credibility lost as a result of an arrogant admission he made
(while in his post conference cups, I understand) regarding
"blue hare", that he (and the good Doctor "C") had been hoaxing
around in Ufology "for years".

Perhaps Mr. Roberts can re-garner some of that credibility lost
were he to come clean about his duplicity and start acting like
a researcher instead of a snarky pelicanist ideologue... be that
as it may, your description of my small dissent as a "hate
campaign" seems like nothing more than abject surrender to
whiney histrionics and ardent spin doctoring. I'm unmoved in the
first place, suspect there will be no credible revelations from
Mr. Roberts forthcoming in the second, and would you tell him to
stay the hell out of my e-mail box in the third?  Thanks.

<snip>

Lehmberg.nul

EXPLORE "AlienViewGroup" at its HostPros URL.
http://www.alienview.net


JOHN FORD RESTORATION FUND -- John will be released eventually.
He'll need a tax free cash stake to get on his feet. Let's put
one together for him; the bigger it is -- the more attention
he gets. It could have been you. E-mail for detail.
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"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite.
What others see from afar, I leave far behind me."
- Giordano Bruno, scourged by the scabrously specious scurrilous.







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                      Re: 1956 Lunar Path Light - Franz

From: Cap. Alejandro Franz <alfafox.nul>
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 04:44:02 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 06:43:33 -0500
Subject: Re: 1956 Lunar Path Light - Franz


>From: Ted Phillips, I.A.I. <archaeoanom.nul-linc.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 09:53:07 -0600
>Subject: 1956 Lunar Path Light

>I found this in the files and thought it might be of interest.

>The image at:

>http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/ufoupdates/listers/ted/56moonufo.html

>was taken by a good friend, professor of astronomy at a college
>in 1956. He gave me the negative and this print before getting
>rid of the rest. He was afraid of ridicule.

I found that the picture of the moon is a fake. Maybe that's the
ridicule your good friend was afraid of. If you see the part in
which the other half side that is part of the moon couldn't let
the stars show in the background as it does.

See:

http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/ufoupdates/listers/ted/images/lunar%201956.j
pg


Capt. Alejandro Franz
director.nul







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               Re: 50 Years Ago The Coniston UFO Photograph -

From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 01:53:28 -0800
Fwd Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 16:25:47 -0500
Subject: Re: 50 Years Ago The Coniston UFO Photograph -


>From: Steven Kaeser <steve.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 11:48:00 -0500
>Subject: Re: 50 Years Ago The Coniston UFO Photograph

>>From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 09:05:22 -0600
>>Subject: Re: 50 Years Ago The Coniston UFO Photograph

> <snip>

>>I've always been wary of admitted hoaxes. I guess I'm just a
>>hardened skeptic who doesn't believe anybody, no matter what
>>they say.

>>I wonder why someone's admission of a hoax is so much more often
>>readily accepted than that someone's initial claim. Particularly
>>when it's proven they often have much more motivation to take
>>back their claim after they've had a strong dose of unwelcome
>>attention from the authorities and the fringies.

>>Also (in a neat little bit of circular logic), if a person is so
>>untrustworthy as to create a hoax, if they've shown themselves
>>to be horrible liars, why do they suddenly become trustworthy
>>when they admit it?

>>I guess we're much more likely to believe people when they're
>>telling us things we want to hear.

>I think the issue is that no one has the ability to listen with
>a completely open mind and uses their own beliefs, faith and
>training to filter all information they absorb.

<snip>

>... UFO researchers seem to have their own
>areas of interest and most are leary of opening that
>psychological can of worms.

>Steve

Hello Steve:

I hate to open psychological cans of worms, I even avoid canned
beer if I have any choice.

Regarding the Coniston photo(s): I view anyone coming up with
Adamski Saucer pix as extremely suspect. In this case (and if I
have it right) the Coniston pix came out just months after the
Adamski-Leslie book, complete with its own images.

Something very similar happened in Spain. From
my Discredited Sightings page:

"1973/08/xx Bolonia, Tarifa, Cadiz, SPAIN: Amateur Archeologist
(some boy) photos saucer. Wide publicity by J.J. Benitez. /LDLN
#139 etc. Delisted. Photo was perfect copy of earlier one from
Barra da Tijuca in Brazil, also fake. Credit: V-J Ballester
Olmos "


As for Barra di Tijuca, I include that on the very
same D-list:


"1952/5/07 BARRA di TIJUCA, Brazil: FIVE photos taken of 60
meter silent Flying Saucer. Goes South to sea. /FSR vol.17 #3
and APRO Bulletin Vol.1 #1, their first issue! Shadows on an
uncropped photo indicate the Sun about 45 degrees beneath the
horizon (underwater) at 4:15 PM local time. A most unlikely
arrangement.  Credit: Loren Gross (/r142#1p47) and Brad Sparks.
"

Those two cases were 21 years apart. Now picture 2 boys in their
early teens, right on the heels of the Adamski craze, complete
with pix of an Adamski saucer.

That really rings my warning bells. Frankly, I'm about one inch
from throwing Darbyshire/Coniston onto the same Discredited
Sightings page.

 http://www.larryhatch.net/DISCRED.html

Does anyone consider that a rash or unwarranted
thing for me to do?


Best wishes

- Larry

= = = = =








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                         Re: Off-Season UFOs - Hatch

From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 02:35:11 -0800
Fwd Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 16:28:36 -0500
Subject: Re: Off-Season UFOs - Hatch


>From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 09:53:41 -0600
>Subject: Re: Off-Season UFOs

>>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 00:52:14 -0800
>>Subject: Re: Off-Season UFOs

>>>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 15:47:45 +0000
>>>Subject: Re: Off-Season UFOs

<snip>

>>>A few years ago I wrote an article for International UFO
>>>Reporter studying exactly this question: What goes on in UFO
>>>sighting "troughs" (as oposed to waves). The article was
>>>available on the Center for UFO Studies web site for a long
>>>time; I haven't looked lately.

>>Hello Sir Richard!

>>I did a Google Search and found your article still up on the
>>cohenufo website! (please repair URL wrap)

>http://www.cohenufo.org/UFO%20Waves-Role%20of%20NICAP%20by%20Richard%20Hall.htm

>>Whoever or whatever is responsible for the more credible UFO
>>sightings during a wave, would presumably be doing something
>>else during a trough. I can't speculate what that might be, not
>>publicly at least. Maybe over a nice bottle of red wine. [burp!]

>It's a very impressive bit of data analysis. Has it shown any
>predictive value yet? For instance, is there a flying saucer
>that shows up at 10:15 PM every third Valentine's Day over Des
>Moines, Iowa?

>I don't know what kind of pattern analysis program would be
>necessary to find that out. I imagine something like those radio
>signal pattern detectors used by SETI. It would be fun to find
>some recurring patterns, check them against things like solar
>flares, el Nino activity, butterfly migrations, etc. Then I'd be
>ready with my good old Kodak Stereo camera.

> Fun!

Hello Tim:

Yes! It would be lots of fun to find anything with any
predictive value. I've never found anything like that, but that
doesn't make it impossible.

If I make the highly speculative presumption that 'genuine' UFOs
are driven by some high intelligence, and further that they
prefer not to interfere or make their presence known, then it
would follow that they avoid obvious periodic or repetitive
appearances. In short, there would be some randomizing factor in
their scheduling algorithms.

If one accepts all that (and I can't blame anyone who doesn't),
then the best hope would be for some overlooked flaw in their
methods. This will never be found if the data is cluttered and
masked by junk sightings which are irrelevant; thus the ad-hoc
filtration in my database.

So far, and to put it mildly, attempts to predict future waves
have been less than successful. That doesn't make them 'wrong'
necessarily.

If we can read these predictions over the Internet, so can
'they'... and probably much easier than I do after a few beers.
[burp!]

If I ever come up with something statistically interesting, good
numbers pointing to a pattern, I would have to think twice
before going online with it, for these reasons and others.


Best wishes

- Larry Hatch








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                       Re: The Beveridge UFO - Bright

From: Dan Bright <ufo.nul>
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 12:20:05 -0000
Fwd Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 16:30:51 -0500
Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO - Bright


>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 16:38:20 -0500
>Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO

>You will not have to put up with me much
>longer, because soon I must be signing-off to get more serious
>work done on three books, a couple of them with a fellow
>ufologist-author.

Ray:

As you know, I'm relatively new to this e-mail List, but can say
with certainty that this collective will be poorer for your
absence. I've enjoyed benefiting from your vast experience and
expertise in UFO research.

I'm sure that I'm not alone in wishing you well for your
forthcoming books, and in hoping that you'll return to the list
after your 'sabbaticle'.

All the best,

Dan Bright
www.theunexplained.info








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               Re: 50 Years ago The Coniston UFO Photograph -

From: Joe McGonagle <joe.mcgonagle.nul>
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 12:23:17 -0000
Fwd Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 16:32:51 -0500
Subject: Re: 50 Years ago The Coniston UFO Photograph -


>From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 04:31:57 -0600
>Subject: Re: 50 Years ago The Coniston UFO Photograph

>>From: Chris Parr <cparr.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 22:48:03 -0000
>>Subject: Re: 50 Years ago The Coniston UFO Photograph

<snip>

>"Prolonged and desperate," Mr. Parr, I think more accurately
>describes a belligerent attempt by Mr. Roberts to recapture
>credibility lost as a result of an arrogant admission he made
>(while in his post conference cups, I understand) regarding
>"blue hare", that he (and the good Doctor "C") had been hoaxing
>around in Ufology "for years".

Hmm... I don't recall Dave Clarke being implicated in the Blue
Hare hoax/test/experiment/crime/blasphemous sin? Perhaps I
missed something?

>Perhaps Mr. Roberts can re-garner some of that credibility lost
>were he to come clean about his duplicity and start acting like

I thought that was the point? He did come clean about "his
duplicity", and that's why you've got the hump?

>a researcher instead of a snarky pelicanist ideologue... be that

Am I to take it that only people that believe in alien
visitation are worthy of calling themselves researchers,
according to your credo? That seems somewhat elitist to me,
though I can see that it would be less challenging to some
people's convictions.

>as it may, your description of my small dissent as a "hate
>campaign" seems like nothing more than abject surrender to
>whiney histrionics and ardent spin doctoring. I'm unmoved in the

You seem to be quite adept at "whiney histrionics and ardent
spin doctoring" yourself. Mountains and molehills come to mind,
no doubt you could expand that simple expression to a thousand
or so words...perhaps turn it into one of odd Alfred's odes.

>first place, suspect there will be no credible revelations from
>Mr. Roberts forthcoming in the second, and would you tell him to
>stay the hell out of my e-mail box in the third? Thanks.

Alfred, I doubt that Andy would take any notice, no matter who
told him to stay out of your inbox. The solution is simple,
apply a filter to your inbox if you want to play "I can't hear
you!".

For the record, I do appreciate and accept the revelation
obtained by Andy and Dave regarding the admission by Darbishire
that he hoaxed the image. On the other hand, perhaps you think
that they beat the confession out of him, in true MI5 style.


Regards,

Joe









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                Transit Of Venus A Rare Celestial Phenomenon

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 04:54:36 -0800
Fwd Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 16:34:38 -0500
Subject: Transit Of Venus A Rare Celestial Phenomenon



Source: Sun Journal

http://www.newbernsj.com/SiteProcessor.cfm?Template=/GlobalTemplates/Details.cfm
&StoryID=13803&Section=Local

February 14,2004

Transit of Venus a rare celestial phenomenon:
It will occur June 8

Patricia Smith
Freedom ENC


Few, if any, who are alive today have ever seen a transit of
Venus - the last time one occurred was 1882.

Those born in the 20th Century will get their first glimpse of
the celestial event this summer when Venus passes directly
between the Earth and the sun June 8.

"Because of the rarity of the event it's kind of an interesting
phenomenon to see," said Richard McColman, program producer with
the Morehead Planetarium in Chapel Hill.

As the planets revolve around the solar system they move
closely, but not quite, on the same plane, so planetary
alignments do not happen that often, McColman said.

The next Transit of Venus will happen in 2012.

The entire Transit of Venus will last about six hours, but only
the last hour and 26 minutes will be visible from North Carolina
as the sun rises, McColman said.

"Basically it will just look like kind of a little dot that just
gradually moves across the sun," McColman said.

As the planet starts to come out from in front of the sun,
viewers will see a sunlight ring (the illuminated atmosphere)
around the part that is not silhouetted, said Brian Davis,
professor of physics at the University of North Carolina at
Wilmington.

"That's an incredible sight," Davis said.

The Transit of Venus can be seen without magnification, but it
will be very small, McColman said.

"Most people would not even notice it," he said.

By telescope viewers will be able to discern the planet as
opposed to a diffused-appearing sunspot, he said.

Using a proper sun filter is a must, regardless of how the
transit is viewed, McColman said. Never look directly at the
sun, he said, because it can cause damage to the eyes.










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                  Reporter Spoke To Suspect During Standoff

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 05:10:42 -0800
Fwd Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 16:37:38 -0500
Subject: Reporter Spoke To Suspect During Standoff


Source: WKYTV 27

http://www.wkyt.com/Global/story.asp?S=1645599&nav=4CALKpb9

February 14, 2004


Herald-Leader Reporter Spoke To Suspect During Standoff

While police surrounded a home where gunfire killed two people
including a firefighter, a newspaper reporter spoke by telephone
with the lone person holed up in the house.

The Lexington Herald-Leader said a reporter inadvertently called
the home and ended the call after a request by police who were
alerted by an editor.

"Me and God's creatures - we're going to do the best we can with
what we got to work with," the Herald-Leader quoted the man as
saying. "These police officers and these folks - I got a feeling
they're getting ready to die."

Lexington firefighter Brenda Cowan, 40, died Friday after being
shot while responding to a domestic violence call at the home in
southeast Fayette County. Another firefighter also was shot.

When firefighters, who also are emergency medical workers,
arrived on the scene a woman already had been shot. She also
died.

After a standoff of several hours, police took a man into
custody and identified him as Pat Hutchinson. Charges were not
immediately filed.

According to the Herald-Leader, its reporters were trying to
call neighbors of the home. Thinking the shooting happened at a
different home, a reporter accidentally called Hutchinson.
"We're going against the evil alien clones," the Herald-Leader
reported Hutchinson as saying. "I started with my wife."

The newspaper placed the call about 4:30 p.m. EST, about an hour
after the standoff began. Once the reporter realized she had the
suspect on the line, she kept him talking while an editor called
police.

The conversation continued while the editor was put on hold.
When an officer returned to the line and asked the Herald-Leader
to end the call with Hutchinson, the reporter did.

Soon after, the reporter relayed the contents of the interview
to police. Asked to start at the beginning, Hutchinson told the
paper, "At the end of World War II, a UFO crash-landed near the
Russian border." Aliens "possess the upper echelons of our
administration. There's only 735 true humans left in Lexington,
less than 3 million left worldwide," he said.

He denied that he had mental problems: "You think, 'this guy's a
nut.' I'm not a nut."










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                    Re: 1956 Lunar Path Light - Stanford

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 09:27:37 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 16:38:47 -0500
Subject: Re: 1956 Lunar Path Light - Stanford


>From: Cap. Alejandro Franz <alfafox.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 04:44:02 -0700
>Subject: Re: 1956 Lunar Path Light

>>From: Ted Phillips, I.A.I. <archaeoanom.nul-linc.net>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 09:53:07 -0600
>>Subject: 1956 Lunar Path Light

>>I found this in the files and thought it might be of interest.

>>The image at:

>>http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/ufoupdates/listers/ted/56moonufo.html

>>was taken by a good friend, professor of astronomy at a college
>>in 1956. He gave me the negative and this print before getting
>>rid of the rest. He was afraid of ridicule.

>I found that the picture of the moon is a fake. Maybe that's the
>ridicule your good friend was afraid of. If you see the part in
>which the other half side that is part of the moon couldn't let
>the stars show in the background as it does.

>See:

http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/ufoupdates/listers/ted/images/lunar%201956.j
pg


Captain Franz,

Although I am not commenting on whether the photo under
discussion is authentic (i.e., not fake by the astronomer), I
think a more objective interpretation of the many white spots on
the right is that they are probably either the result of light-
blocking debris on the negative making white spots on the photo
print emulsion, and/or just damage to, or else light-colored
debris upon, the face of the photo, per se, or conceivably even
a combination of the two.  After all, the photo is said to have
been made in 1956, so it, and/or its negative, is 47 or 48 years
old. Photos and negatives can get awfully damaged in that amount
of time.

I could go on talking about my reasons for thinking that, but
will mention one, for now:  Note that a couple of those white
spots you interpret as "stars" are substantially elongated (one
is even curved like a bit of 'lint', perhaps), while many others
are mere dots.  Do you propose that a couple of the stars took a
waltz or did the fandango in the sky while the others stayed on
their cosmic courses. :)


Ray Stanford

"You know my method.  It is founded upon the observance of trifles." --
Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery








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                    Re: 1956 Lunar Path Light - Phillips

From: Ted Phillips - I.A.I. <archaeoanom.nul-linc.net>
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 09:26:21 -0600
Fwd Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 16:41:16 -0500
Subject: Re: 1956 Lunar Path Light - Phillips


>From: Cap. Alejandro Franz <alfafox.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 04:44:02 -0700
>Subject: Re: 1956 Lunar Path Light

>>From: Ted Phillips, I.A.I. <archaeoanom.nul-linc.net>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 09:53:07 -0600
>>Subject: 1956 Lunar Path Light

>>I found this in the files and thought it might be of interest.

>>The image at:

>>http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/ufoupdates/listers/ted/56moonufo.html

>>was taken by a good friend, professor of astronomy at a college
>>in 1956. He gave me the negative and this print before getting
>>rid of the rest. He was afraid of ridicule.

>I found that the picture of the moon is a fake. Maybe that's the
>ridicule your good friend was afraid of. If you see the part in
>which the other half side that is part of the moon couldn't let
>the stars show in the background as it does.

>See:

>http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/ufoupdates/listers/ted/images/lunar%201956.
jpg


Those are not stars, they are dust particles and various debris
from lying around for 50 years - you need a course on
photography, my friend.


Ted







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                               Trots In Space

From: Terry W. Colvin <fortean1.nul>
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 10:09:46 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 16:46:56 -0500
Subject: Trots In Space


Source: Fortean Times

http://www.forteantimes.com/articles/176_trots.shtml

August 2003

Trots In Space
Matt Salusbury

Juan R Posadas was no ordinary Trotskyite; socialists from outer
space, the benefits of nuclear war and communication with
dolphins were all part of his revolutionary programme. Matt
Salusbury tells the story of one of the World=92s strangest
political thinkers.

We think of UFO cults, typically, as being na=EFve, fancy-dress
Californian affairs, scary religious Doomsday sects, or even
neo-Nazi groups convinced that flying saucers operate from a
secret Antarctic base. But there was one UFO cult at the
opposite end of the political spectrum: a Trotskyite UFO cult.

They called themselves the Posadists after their founder Juan R
Posadas and, like many UFO cults, they bore a fierce loyalty to
their "dear master".1 They believed that close encounters were
evidence of superior socialist civilisations from Earth=92s
future. Their bizarre belief in flying saucers was not
channelled to them by some tackily-named space entity but
"theoretically informed" by Marx and Trotsky, and was for them a
logical extension of Marxist dialectical materialism. Posadas
wrote: "We will travel to planets millions of light years away
under a Socialist society."

<snip>

...More at URL above.

Terry


-- "Only a zit on the wart on the heinie of progress." Copyright
1992, Frank Rice


Terry W. Colvin,
Sierra Vista,
Arizona (USA)
fortean1.nul








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                             Excalibur Briefing

From: Chris Burns <Thurstonoreggae.nul>
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 12:24:27 EST
Fwd Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 16:48:13 -0500
Subject: Excalibur Briefing


List,

Finally got a copy of the book Excalibur Briefing by Thomas
Bearden, and before delving into it I went looking for
commentary and/or criticism of it, but found none.

I'd be interested on hearing from anyone familiar with the book
who might offer some comments about it.

I imagine those delving into hotspot-research and/or psychical
research might be the ones are not only familiar with the
material but could offer at least a perspective on whether the
ideas presented in the book have held up in the 20-plus years
since it was written.


Thanks,

Chris Burns








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                 Aaron Sorkin's Fictional Treatment Of UFOs

From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg.nul>
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 11:25:30 -0600
Fwd Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 16:52:02 -0500
Subject: Aaron Sorkin's Fictional Treatment Of UFOs


Open Letter To Aaron Sorkin On His Fictional Treatment Of UFOs

Mr. Sorkin, I know you likely get this a lot, but I think your
"West Wing" program is spot on, the best thing on network
television in 50 years. I blew it off in the beginning because
it -was- network television (Emmys don't mean a damn thing to
me), but picked it up in syndication on Bravo, and have been
pleasurably _awash_ in re-runs since. I'm a retired military
aviator and not given to histrionics (really!) but I can
genuinely report to you that I am cheering or in tears
(frequently both!) for every episode, many of which I have seen
2 or 3 times. It is at once a civics education, a moral
exploration, and a competent foil for the occluded and uptight
right! I'll be buying the series on DVD, for sure.

I was _especially_ impressed with your treatment on the subject
of "UFOs" in the segment featuring a dismissive skeptic Sam
Seaborn and the 'Everyman-UFO-Nut'. At the start of the program
I thought you were going to snicker ignorantly up your sleeve
like the duplicitous and hijacked mainstream, but no! By the end
of the segment, the UFO nut was nowhere near as "nutty" as when
he was first introduced, and the perplexed Sam, helped along,
very cryptically, by Josh and Toby (..._were_ they kidding?)...
had his head turned around more than a little!

Thank you, sir!

It was a very balanced and informative portrayal in cameo for a
generally uninformed public, and bravely unusual for that! Well
done!

You provide a quality service, Mr. Sorkin... I appreciate your
courage in providing same. My _absolute_ best, sir, and thanks
again.


Lehmberg.nul

EXPLORE "AlienViewGroup" at its HostPros URL.
http://www.alienview.net


JOHN FORD RESTORATION FUND -- John will be released eventually.
He'll need a tax free cash stake to get on his feet. Let's put
one together for him; the bigger it is -- the more attention
he gets. It could have been you. E-mail for detail.
$450.00 pledged -- $200.00 collected!

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite.
What others see from afar, I leave far behind me."
- Giordano Bruno, scourged by the scabrously specious scurrilous.






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                              For Jaime Maussan

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 15:01:34 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 16:53:57 -0500
Subject: For Jaime Maussan


Hi All,

Excuse me for using the List in order to contact Jaime Maussan.
I have been trying to reach him for several days but all my
messages keep getting bounced by his server.

Jaime, If you are reading this, could you please contact me at
your earliest convenience? Thank you.

And thank you to the List members for your indulgence.


Regards,

John Velez








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                     Re: 1956 Lunar Path Light - Shough

From: Martin Shough <mshough.nul>
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 20:20:31 -0000
Fwd Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 16:57:42 -0500
Subject: Re: 1956 Lunar Path Light - Shough


>From: Cap. Alejandro Franz <alfafox.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 04:44:02 -0700
>Subject: Re: 1956 Lunar Path Light

>>From: Ted Phillips, I.A.I. <archaeoanom.nul-linc.net>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 09:53:07 -0600
>>Subject: 1956 Lunar Path Light

>>I found this in the files and thought it might be of interest.

>>The image at:

>http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/ufoupdates/listers/ted/56moonufo.html

>>was taken by a good friend, professor of astronomy at a college
>>in 1956. He gave me the negative and this print before getting
>>rid of the rest. He was afraid of ridicule.

>I found that the picture of the moon is a fake. Maybe that's the
>ridicule your good friend was afraid of. If you see the part in
>which the other half side that is part of the moon couldn't let
>the stars show in the background as it does.

Who was it wrote the classic sci fi novel "The Stars Like Dust" -
Asimov maybe? Whatever, these 'stars' are certainly like dust,
and probably are.


Martin Shough








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                      Re: 1956 Lunar Path Light - Shell

From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 10:25:05 -0800
Fwd Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 17:01:56 -0500
Subject: Re: 1956 Lunar Path Light - Shell


>From: Cap. Alejandro Franz <alfafox.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 04:44:02 -0700
>Subject: Re: 1956 Lunar Path Light

>>From: Ted Phillips, I.A.I. <archaeoanom.nul-linc.net>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 09:53:07 -0600
>>Subject: 1956 Lunar Path Light

>>I found this in the files and thought it might be of interest.

>>The image at:

>>http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/ufoupdates/listers/ted/56moonufo.html

>>was taken by a good friend, professor of astronomy at a college
>>in 1956. He gave me the negative and this print before getting
>>rid of the rest. He was afraid of ridicule.

>I found that the picture of the moon is a fake. Maybe that's the
>ridicule your good friend was afraid of. If you see the part in
>which the other half side that is part of the moon couldn't let
>the stars show in the background as it does.

I think those little specs are probably dust on the photo, not
stars. Nice debunking try, though. Interesting.








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   Feb > Feb 14

                         Re: Off-Season UFOs - Shell

From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 10:28:25 -0800
Fwd Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 17:03:36 -0500
Subject: Re: Off-Season UFOs - Shell


>From: Ray Dickenson <editor.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 16:17:37 +0000
>Subject: Re: Off-Season UFOs

>>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 00:52:14 -0800
>>Subject: Re: Off-Season UFOs

>>I still feel that the wave phenomenon has some
>>objective validity, but its hard to gauge that
>>in a frenzied atmosphere with every boob, nut
>>and charlatan crawling out of the woodwork.

>Yup, like "crime figures" - only vice versa - "Crime figures"
>are _reports_. Not only that, but they're collated by agencies
>that (now) profit from inflating/uprating those reports.

>Whereas forty or so years ago those same agencies -
>police/ media/politicals - profited by _deflating_ crime
>figures.

>Result: violence has decreased by 50% or so (objective fact -
>less dead bodies lying around) but "violent crime figures" go
>through the roof.

Actually, violent crime figures have decreased significantly.

Some people see a correlation between more abortion, less
violent crime, supposedly because there are fewer
unwanted/abused kids growing up to be violent adults.

Others see it as a natural consequence of demographic shift.

That's always the problem with statistics, even with UFO data.
There may be correlations, but proving causation is often
difficult.








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                             "Like A Giant Star"

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 10:50:57 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 10:50:57 -0500
Subject: "Like A Giant Star"




Source: North Bay News North Bay, Ontario

http://www.baytoday.ca/content/news/details.asp?c15

"Like A Giant Star"

Saturday, February 14, 2004

By Phil Novak
BayToday.ca

BayToday.ca received the following anonymous email this morning
and would like to know if anybody else witnessed what is
described or took digital pictures:


"Hi,

Did anyone else see or hear anything about the UFO last night.
Our family watched it from our farm near Nipissing sit
motionless over Lake Nipissing, it seemed, for just over one
hour before it moved slowly away o the west.

My son was listening to a scanner and the police, military etc.
were all aware. Numerous planes were in the sky trying to
observe but none of them went too close. It was huge - like a
giant star; at one point it was moving closer and we were
terrified-we had the kids all dressed and ready to jump in the
car and leave. I didn't take my eyes off of it from 7:55 pm
until 9 pm when it slowly disappeared. My daughter in law called
the news and they said they had been instructed by the police
not to give out any information.

There was nothing on the news. I have never seen anything like
this in my life. Does anyone know anything about this?"


If you witnessed this or have pictures please let me know at:

feedback.nul

and provide some sort of contact information.

Thanks

-----

[UFO UpDates thanks Mr. Fazzari for the lead]






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                      In Search Of Other-Worldly Truths

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 11:01:37 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 11:01:37 -0500
Subject: In Search Of Other-Worldly Truths




Source: The Taipei Times - Taiwan

http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/feat/archives/2004/02/15/2003098897

Sunday, Feb 15, 2004,Page 18


In Search Of Other-Worldly Truths

Whether it's UFOs or lost underwater cities, Taiwan's fringe
scientific societies hope to make monkeys out of their doubters
over the coming year and prove once and for all that the truth
is really out here

By Gavin Phipps
Staff Reporter


At 5:30pm on Jan 4, 2004, Taipei's Steven Lai was standing with
his camcorder near the Shin Kong Tower when he caught sight of a
triangular object in the skies above him. Making use of his top
of the line digital recorder Lai filmed what he believed to be a
UFO circling the skies above Taipei.

Lai sent his footage to the Taiwan Ufology Society (TUFOS,
previously known as the Taiwan Unidentified Flying Objects
Association - for confirmation as to whether or not he was
witness to a UFO sighting. He hadn't. According to experts, the
clumsy and slightly out of focus footage, which shows a
triangular entity with red and green markings in flight, is a
man made object.

"We studied it for some time, but the object was too close to
the buildings to have been a UFO," said TUFOS President James
Huang (???). "We reckon that what he saw was probably a plastic
bag or some other small man made object that had been picked up
by the wind and was blowing through the air."

While Lai's footage wasn't this year's first Taiwan UFO
sighting, hundreds of people still trawl the skies with high-
powered telescopes daily hoping to catch a glimpse of the
unexplained. They send their reports, whether credible or not,
to TUFOS. Now boasting 500 members, the group is the nation's
sole Ufology society and is a sorting house for dozens of
reports that come in annually regarding UFO sightings in Taiwan.

Since Taiwan's first officially recorded sighting of a UFO by
Tsai Chang-hsien) on March 5, 1956, there have been upward of 54
feasible sightings and countless false sightings of unidentified
flying objects cruising the skies above Taiwan. All these
reports have landed on the desk of Ho Hsien-jung, TUFOS' chief
investigator.

Affectionately known as "Ufo Ho" to his friends and colleges,
the articulate Ufologist spent months wading through pages of
reports filed by Taiwanese citizens over the years. Realizing
the information his organization had gathered was wasted sitting
in his computer, Ho decided to publish a complete record of
Taiwan's UFO sightings.

"There's certainly no shortage of books touching on UFO
sightings, but there was nothing specific to Taiwan," he said.
"No one had ever set out to catalog the nation's UFO sightings
and publish all the written and photographic evidence in a
single publication before."

It took Ho almost a year to sift through information and contact
and re-interview the people who had reported the sightings, to
ensure there were no discrepancies. Entitled On the Trail of UFO
Sightings, (the book, which was released last week, details 54
of the most important UFO sightings ever to have been reported
in Taiwan, as well as the countless sightings TUFOS had been
informed of in China.

The results of Ho's book point to a drop in UFO sightings in
Taiwan in recent years, with only two recorded incidents taking
place last year, and an increase in the number of sightings on
the opposite side of the Taiwan Strait.

"Obviously there are more people in China than anywhere else, so
I'm not surprised at the increase in sightings there. The recent
drop in UFO sightings can be put down to several things," he
said. "There are now more diseases than ever before, and
anything landing here would be susceptible to falling victim to
them. And secondly, I think the military use of lasers means
that fewer extra-terrestrials now dare to enter the Earth's
atmosphere in case they are shot down."

<snip>








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                     Re: 1956 Lunar Path Light - Fleming

From: Lan Fleming <lfleming5.nul>
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 16:14:56 -0600
Fwd Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 12:13:00 -0500
Subject: Re: 1956 Lunar Path Light - Fleming


>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 09:27:37 -0500
>Subject: Re: 1956 Lunar Path Light - Stanford

>>From: Cap. Alejandro Franz <alfafox.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 04:44:02 -0700
>>Subject: Re: 1956 Lunar Path Light

>>>From: Ted Phillips, I.A.I. <archaeoanom.nul-linc.net>
>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 09:53:07 -0600
>>>Subject: 1956 Lunar Path Light

>>>I found this in the files and thought it might be of interest.

>>>The image at:

>>>http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/ufoupdates/listers/ted/56moonufo.html

>>>was taken by a good friend, professor of astronomy at a college
>>>in 1956. He gave me the negative and this print before getting
>>>rid of the rest. He was afraid of ridicule.

>>I found that the picture of the moon is a fake. Maybe that's the
>>ridicule your good friend was afraid of. If you see the part in
>>which the other half side that is part of the moon couldn't let
>>the stars show in the background as it does.

>>See:

>http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/ufoupdates/listers/ted/images/lunar%201956.
jpg

>Captain Franz,

>Although I am not commenting on whether the photo under
>discussion is authentic (i.e., not fake by the astronomer), I
>think a more objective interpretation of the many white spots on
>the right is that they are probably either the result of light-
>blocking debris on the negative making white spots on the photo
>print emulsion, and/or just damage to, or else light-colored
>debris upon, the face of the photo, per se, or conceivably even
>a combination of the two.  After all, the photo is said to have
>been made in 1956, so it, and/or its negative, is 47 or 48 years
>old. Photos and negatives can get awfully damaged in that amount
>of time.


Ray,

You're right on target here. I've seen other photographs taken
by Earth-based telescopes that show similar lights, one of them
in an old issue of Sky and Telescope. They tend to appear near
the moon's day/night terminator as this one does.

One theory is that the light flashes are electrical discharges
that have something to do with differences in electric potential
between the day-side and the night-side of the terminator. Some
people might shout "UFO" too quickly. Others, obviously, shout
"hoax" too quickly.








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                       Re: UN Petition Update - White

From: Eleanor White <eleanor.nul>
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 17:18:51 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 12:14:59 -0500
Subject: Re: UN Petition Update - White


>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 16:28:42 -0500
>Subject: UN Petition Update

<snip>

>It took the better part of five years for the 'Roswell Petition'
>to gather about 30,000 signatures. I am beginning to suspect
>that it will take about as long for us to gather a similar number
>of signatures for the UN petition. No worries, we'll just do what
>we have to do to make it a success.

>Spread the word! Tell everyone you know to check it out. The
>URL appears at the bottom of each and every post that issues
>forth from UFO UpDates. Just click on the link and you're there!
>Couldn't be easier. ;)


It may be more than apathy, John. Our group has a small quick-
symptom-recognition survey posted, and it was booming along in
2002. By last autumn (2003), the responses had dropped off to
virtually zero, while we know the numbers of those targetted are
increasing significantly from emails and phone calls. We are
scratching our heads trying to find ways around what can't be
anything but intentional blockage.

You might want to ask various UFO magazine publishers for a pro-
bono link in their publications to get around what may also be
a deliberate blockade.


Eleanor White








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                        Re: For Jaime Maussan - Burns

From: Max Burns <max.burns.nul>
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 22:29:12 -0000
Fwd Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 12:31:32 -0500
Subject: Re: For Jaime Maussan - Burns


>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
>Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 15:01:34 -0500
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Subject: For Jaime Maussan

>Excuse me for using the List in order to contact Jaime Maussan.
>I have been trying to reach him for several days but all my
>messages keep getting bounced by his server.

>Jaime, If you are reading this, could you please contact me at
>your earliest convenience? Thank you.

>And thank you to the List members for your indulgence.

I believe that Jaime Maussan has been at the UFO congress in
Laughlyn all this last week.

Max








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                      Re: 1956 Lunar Path Light - Oberg

From: James Oberg <joberg.nul>
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 16:52:42 -0600
Fwd Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 12:34:43 -0500
Subject: Re: 1956 Lunar Path Light - Oberg


>From: Ted Phillips, I.A.I. <archaeoanom.nul-linc.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 09:53:07 -0600
>Subject: 1956 Lunar Path Light

>http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/ufoupdates/listers/ted/56moonufo.html

>He used the observatory refractor (a 16 or 18 inch - can't
>remember). He was getting ready to image the moon and saw this
>bright circular light moving across the lunar path, waited until
>it was on the terminator for max contrast.

Very interesting, along with the twenty other dimmer white dots
shown against the dark background of the Moon - what might all
those objects have been? Did you remember any info on the
angular speed of the bright one? And the date/time, so somebody
could seek documented simo events?


James Oberg







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              Re: Harrassment - Has It Happened To You? - White

From: Eleanor White <eleanor.nul>
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 18:10:30 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 12:35:59 -0500
Subject: Re: Harrassment - Has It Happened To You? - White


>From: Geoffrey Richardson <geoff.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 01:33:03 -0000
>Subject: Re: Harrassment - Has It Happened To You?

<snip>

>>I am aware of a "Ufologist" who, over a period of two to three
>>years, experienced a great deal of intimidation from presumably
>>a group with an extraordinary methods and facilities available
>>to them. Initially I admit that I had doubts as to whether
>>anything was actually happening - I was wrong, no doubt in my
>>mind about that. Yet, there did not seem to be anything the
>>person was aware of or involved with that could warrent such
>>attention.

>At what point do they start taking an interest?

If you're asking me, (and I believe the covert organization
tormenting us is the same one wanting to keep the lid on UFO
truths,) they are totally unpredictable. They'll keep some of
us in pain at the level unmedicated cancer, for no apparent
reason. Others get by with not much more than harassment skits
in the street, again, unrelated to what each of us is doing in
the way of activism.

This suggests _extreme_ compartmentalization, characteristic of
very secret organizations.

When a non-targetted person who has an ability to materially
help us starts to assist, they can get "warning shots across the
bow", such as phone calls with no one there, 'bee-sting' zaps
while trying to sleep, or sabotage of the home, car, or
workplace. But even here, there are no obvious criteria for
deciding who gets what "interest" on behalf of these perps.

A radar engineer who had volunteered to help us by assembling a
demonstration device using Dr. Joseph Sharp's implant-less
method for using modified radar signals to transmit voice into
someone's skull, got quite a shot across his bow. Once he
started working on our equipment, his wife "freaked out" and
left him for good, in spite of a good marriage beforehand. And
he got a considerable period of degraded vision and pronounced
"shakes", as well as some other effects.

Of course demonstrating implant-less transmission of voice into
someone's skull, through walls, is a cut above what most people
who offer the ability to assist can do. Again, it's totally
unpredictable.


Eleanor White








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               Re: 50 Years ago The Coniston UFO Photograph -

From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg.nul>
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 17:10:56 -0600
Fwd Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 12:38:21 -0500
Subject: Re: 50 Years ago The Coniston UFO Photograph -


>From: Joe McGonagle <joe.mcgonagle.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 12:23:17 -0000
>Subject: Re: 50 Years ago The Coniston UFO Photograph

>>From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 04:31:57 -0600
>>Subject: Re: 50 Years ago The Coniston UFO Photograph

>>>From: Chris Parr <cparr.nul>
>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 22:48:03 -0000
>>>Subject: Re: 50 Years ago The Coniston UFO Photograph

><snip>

>>"Prolonged and desperate," Mr. Parr, I think more accurately
>>describes a belligerent attempt by Mr. Roberts to recapture
>>credibility lost as a result of an arrogant admission he made
>>(while in his post conference cups, I understand) regarding
>>"blue hare", that he (and the good Doctor "C") had been hoaxing
>>around in Ufology "for years".

>Hmm... I don't recall Dave Clarke being implicated in the Blue
>Hare hoax/test/experiment/crime/blasphemous sin? Perhaps I
>missed something?

It's referenced in Burns "The Usual Suspects..." witnessed by
persons standing in the group addressed, and not denied by the
principals. You may miss more than you think, sir.

>>Perhaps Mr. Roberts can re-garner some of that credibility lost
>>were he to come clean about his duplicity and start acting like

>I thought that was the point? He did come clean about "his
>duplicity", and that's why you've got the hump?

Details, Mr. McGonagle. It's all in the details. In a post-
conference drunken brag... he let slip the tip of the iceberg. I
suppose you're quite comfortable running aground on what remains
beneath the surface. I'm, decidedly, not.

>>a researcher instead of a snarky pelicanist ideologue... be that

>Am I to take it that only people that believe in alien
>visitation are worthy of calling themselves researchers,
>according to your credo?

...I guess the short answer to that question is, YES, Mr.
McGonagle, frankly! I'm fed up with reluctant ufological blow-
bags and mainstream scientistics (sic) standing around and
wringing their hands regarding an asked and answered question on
whether aliens exist or not! They exist! Massive evidence exists
on extant levels championed by better persons than you and me.
They exist. If you still wonder if they do or not... I don't
have a whole lot of time for you, flatly. Insisting to dwell on
that question, when it has already been answered enough for any
-reasonable- person, makes you part of the problem and decidedly
contrary to a rational solution... and part of the reason we
haven't gotten anywhere in 50 years! Be proud!

They exist, sir. Have some courage! Let's move on.

>That seems somewhat elitist to me,
>though I can see that it would be less challenging to some
>people's convictions.

Not elitist, sir! You take your garden varity and vat dyed
pelicanist. Now, there's your lock-kneed elitist. Swing your
unclever brush away from me. Thank you.

>>as it may, your description of my small dissent as a "hate
>>campaign" seems like nothing more than abject surrender to
>>whiney histrionics and ardent spin doctoring. I'm unmoved in the

>You seem to be quite adept at "whiney histrionics and ardent
>spin doctoring" yourself. Mountains and molehills come to mind,
>no doubt you could expand that simple expression to a thousand
>or so words...perhaps turn it into one of odd Alfred's odes.

...You want discourse, or do you want to stand around, slack-
jawed, and make uncleverly inaccurate comments? I'll wait. Oh -
 and an Ode is in the works, Sir. Thanks.

>>first place, suspect there will be no credible revelations from
>>Mr. Roberts forthcoming in the second, and would you tell him to
>>stay the hell out of my e-mail box in the third? Thanks.

>Alfred, I doubt that Andy would take any notice, no matter who
>told him to stay out of your inbox. The solution is simple,
>apply a filter to your inbox if you want to play "I can't hear
>you!".

...I should think a real gentelman would respect another's
expressed wishes, sir. I don't see where I have to exert one ERG
of energy building a wall that would preclude him the
opportunity to write something informative, informational, or
even apologetic. I'm not about walls and the necessity for them,
Mr. McGonagle, your intrepid and respected *researcher,* Mr.
Roberts is.

>For the record, I do appreciate and accept the revelation
>obtained by Andy and Dave regarding the admission by Darbishire
>that he hoaxed the image. On the other hand, perhaps you think
>that they beat the confession out of him, in true MI5 style.

You can put your faith and trust in it, sir, I think it's the
act of a fool. Moreover, I think anybody with a lick of sense
and a CSICOPian war story thinks so too. Hope this helps...
Verily.


Lehmberg.nul

EXPLORE "AlienViewGroup" at its HostPros URL.
http://www.alienview.net


JOHN FORD RESTORATION FUND -- John will be released eventually.
He'll need a tax free cash stake to get on his feet. Let's put
one together for him; the bigger it is -- the more attention
he gets. It could have been you. E-mail for detail.
$450.00 pledged -- $200.00 collected!

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite.
What others see from afar, I leave far behind me."
- Giordano Bruno, scourged by the scabrously specious scurrilous.








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                       Re: Off-Season UFOs - Dickenson

From: Ray Dickenson <editor.nul>
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 23:42:46 +0000
Fwd Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 12:40:36 -0500
Subject: Re: Off-Season UFOs - Dickenson


>From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 10:28:25 -0800
>Subject: Re: Off-Season UFOs

>Actually, violent crime figures have decreased significantly.

You're understandably confused; _reported_ violent crime is up -
as expected, responding to hype and increasing geriatric paranoia

http://www.perceptions.couk.com/violence.html

but UK gov't figures for violent crime are _down_ - being now
taken from the `crime survey' - a questionnaire and so more
objective.

>>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 02:35:11 -0800
>>Subject: Re: Off-Season UFOs

>>If I ever come up with something statistically
>>interesting, good numbers pointing to a pattern,
>>I would have to think twice before going online
>>with it, for these reasons and others.

Sharp thinking, but probably wasted:-

a) if `they' are really advanced the idea (in your brain) could
be expected to be visible to them;

b) all past experience indicates `they' don't want to communicate
with Earth's "leaders" - rather the reverse;

c) if you _wanted_ contact then demonstrating logic (and
therefore non-resemblance to our "leaders") seems a good ploy.

cheers

Ray D

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Perceptions" http://www.perceptions.couk.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~







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              West Coast Screenings Of 'Touched' With Dr. John

From: <info.nul>
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 19:56:14 -0800 (PST)
Fwd Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 12:45:52 -0500
Subject: West Coast Screenings Of 'Touched' With Dr. John


From: Will Bueche

Benefit Screening of TOUCHED

FEB 28 IN LOS ANGELES
to be hosted by SHIRLEY MACLAINE
with DR. JOHN MACK and filmmaker LAUREL CHITEN
in attendence.

Actress/author Shirley MacLaine will be hosting the Los Angeles
premiere of the new documentary TOUCHED, an award-winning film
about people who think they've had contact with aliens, and the
Harvard psychiatrist who believes them.

Harvard psychiatrist-turned-philosopher Dr. John Mack, an expert
on the alien encounter phenomenon and the central character in
the film, and Emmy-nominated filmmaker Laurel Chiten will be in
attendance for audience discussion.

When: Sat. Feb 28 at 7PM
Where: Saturday, Feb 28th, 7:00 pm
Raleigh Studios' Chaplin Building,
5300 Melrose Ave Hollywood
Price: Tickets $25; advance tickets available at
www.touchedfilm.com

Three years in the making, TOUCHED weaves together stories of
people whose lives have been in some way "touched" by alien
encounters, whether real or imagined.  Dr. Mack plays a central
role in the film, introducing his research into the lives of the
so- called "experiencers," who bring with them reports of
missing time, bodily probing, sperm extraction or impregnation,
a strange project to create a hybrid alien/human race and
apocalyptic warnings.

In presenting the lives of several "experiencers" of alien
contact, the film illustrates how the alien encounters can
paradoxically bring a sense of connection to other life while
also alienating people from a culture that does not believe in
their experiences.

Initially a skeptic, Chiten now labels herself an agnostic. "I
am not convinced that these people have been visited by aliens,
but I do believe that something profound has happened to them.
And maybe, just maybe, everything they have described is, in
fact, completely true."

In addition to Dr. Mack and several experiencers from the United
States and abroad, Chiten's film presents interviews with Mack's
nemesis at Harvard Medical School, Dr. Arnold Relman, as well as
British mythologian Patrick Harpur, former Vatican demonologist
Monsignor Corrado Balducci, Brazilian clinical psychologist
Gilda Moura, Radcliffe Fellow and social critic Wendy Kaminer,
and Professor of Law at Harvard Law School Alan M. Dershowitz.
TOUCHED won Best Documentary at Toronto's Female Eye Film
Festival.

As part of this West Coast tour,
TOUCHED will be screening in:

San Francisco - Feb 20
Sonoma - Feb 21 and Feb 22
Tucscon - Feb 23
Santa Fe - Feb 24
Albuquerque - Feb 25
Los Angeles - Feb 28

Dr. John Mack and filmmaker Laurel Chiten will be at many of
these screenings.

For complete information visit:

http://www.touchedfilm.com


"Touched offers a uniquely contemplative perspective on the
alien abduction phenomenon [and] presents the 'experiencers' and
their stories with sensitivity
and without judgement."
 =97Boston's Weekly Dig

"Chiten's masterful accomplishment combines great tenderness
towards the 'experiencers' with rigorous questioning. It's a
mind-expanding journey that will
ignite debate."
 =97Eleanor Nichols Director, Sonoma Film Institute,
Sonoma State University

"I screened TOUCHED at a symposium for undergraduate juniors.
Students' initial skepticism about the subject was replaced with
curiosity, tolerance, and a desire to understand. They could not
stop asking questions!"
 =97Edward A. Kravitz, Ph.D.,
 Professor, Harvard Medical School

###









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                      Re: The Beveridge UFO - Stanford

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 23:25:31 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 15:05:18 -0500
Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO - Stanford


>From: Dan Bright <ufo.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 12:20:05 -0000
>Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO

>>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 16:38:20 -0500
>>Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO

>>You will not have to put up with me much
>>longer, because soon I must be signing-off to get more serious
>>work done on three books, a couple of them with a fellow
>>ufologist-author.

>Ray:

>As you know, I'm relatively new to this e-mail List, but can say
>with certainty that this collective will be poorer for your
>absence. I've enjoyed benefiting from your vast experience and
>expertise in UFO research.

>I'm sure that I'm not alone in wishing you well for your
>forthcoming books, and in hoping that you'll return to the list
>after your 'sabbaticle'.

Well, thanks, Dan. That's very kind of you and much appreciated.

Your own thoughtful and entirely appropriate contributions to
UFO UpDates surely have made it a more worthwhile and meaningful
experience for me and, I'm confident, for many List members.
Your www.theunexplained.info, likewise. It shows great promise
for the times ahead. The field needs your level-headed
sensibility, so keep up the good work.


Ray Stanford








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                         Re: Off-Season UFOs - Pope

From: Nick Pope <nick.nul>
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 11:10:46 -0000
Fwd Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 15:07:28 -0500
Subject: Re: Off-Season UFOs - Pope


>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 14:36:53 -0800
>Subject: Off-Season UFOs

>We pretty much know where UFOs are seen during the famous waves
>over the modern era. I put up a series of maps showing those,
>including:

<snip>

>The question occurs, where are UFOs seem _between_ the major
>waves?

>To study this, I set up filters on my software to _exclude_ the
>following months/years:

>June-July 1947; Mar-Apr 1950; June-Sept 1952;
>Sept-Nov. 1954; November 1957; August 1965;
>March-April 1966; March 1967; July-Sept 1968;
>Oct-Nov 1973.

>I left the rest of the data in to study the remainder.

<snip>

>I haven't done a fine analysis of the new data yet, but it might
>be fun to compare and contrast those displays with the wave
>years maps.

>Maybe there are some discernible patterns to UFO sightings
>locations "off-season" versus the busiest periods.


Larry,

Thanks for posting this. I know you'll be aware of some of these
factors, but thought I'd share my views on some of the problems
that arise when trying to do statistical analysis of UFO
sightings.

When running the UK Government's UFO project I asked a member of
staff to do a study into the geographical spread of sightings. I
gave her some outline maps of the UK and asked her to go through
the files for the last three years, marking the locations. Here
are some of the issues that arose:

The Ministry of Defence didn't have a monopoly on the data. Some
people reported to us, and there was a national reporting system
that ensured we received reports sent to military bases, civil
airports and police stations. But this reporting system had
broken down in places, and some people were not aware that
reports should have been forwarded. But in any case, we had no
way of sweeping up reports that were sent to civilian UFO groups
or researchers, or to the media. We would find out about some of
these sightings, but by no means all.

Many people who see UFOs don't report them at all, either
because they fear ridicule or because they don't know where to
send their reports. Again, this brought it home to us that we
were plotting only a proportion of the overall sightings.

A straightforward exercise to map UFO sighting reports takes no
account of any analysis of the sightings. Ministry of Defence
and USAF data told me that 95% of sightings were likely to be
attributable to prosaic explanations, or involve situations
where insufficient data existed to make a reliable assessment of
what was seen. To give one example of how this can affect the
data, we knew that a high proportion of UFO sightings were
caused by misidentifications of aircraft or aircraft lights.
Therefore, any meaningful analysis of the geographical spread of
UFO sightings should take account of the location of
flightpaths. There are many other things to factor in: the sites
where weather balloons are launched, areas where airships fly,
etc.

The media can create a UFO wave. When a UFO story runs in a
local newspaper, the article often ends with a request that
other witnesses come forward. This creates a receptive
environment for reports, and UFO witnesses who might otherwise
have said nothing will feel more comfortable about speaking out,
and will have an obvious outlet. There can be a domino effect
here; a local newspaper might run a story and ask for other
witnesses to get in touch; local radio or television may then
pick up the story and make a similar request. Finally, even
national newspapers or television channels may run the story.
Before you know it, you have the next Warminster or Bonnybridge
on your hands. Are such places really UFO hotspots, or are they
just areas that have been portrayed as such? Once an area gets a
reputation as a hotspot, ufologists go on skywatches there, and
may direct reporters and documentary makers to these areas as
opposed to others. Things are seen in these locations because
this is where people are looking. It becomes a self-fulfilling
prophesy.

This point about the media is also important to bear in mind
when looking at apparent peaks in UFO sightings at a particular
time, as well as in a particular location. Media interest in a
UFO story is likely to be short-lived, but the receptive
environment for sighting reports that exists while the media
spotlight is on can skew the figures for anyone trying to plot
whether there are more sightings at a particular time of year.

UFO researchers can create UFO waves. A proactive researcher
will smoke out reports that might otherwise not come to light,
and act as a 'lightning conductor' for such data. In much the
same way as applies in the point about the media, an apparent
hotspot does not necessarily mean there are more sightings in a
particular area. It may simply be that a more receptive
environment has been created for people to make reports, and a
higher proportion of UFO sightings will be reported in this area
as opposed to another.

We need to factor in data on population density. If more UFOs
are seen in a particular area, might it not reflect the fact
that there are more people there to see them? Indeed, the
results of my MOD study produced maps that seemed to reflect
this very point. More UFO reports came from in and around London
than from anywhere else, and there were similar clusters around
major conurbations.

There's an issue regarding how to score multiple witness
sightings. Do we treat a UFO seen by a family of four as one
report or four? What about sightings in broadly the same
location at broadly the same time, but by witnesses not in
precisely the same location?

I no longer have access to the Ministry of Defence's UFO files,
and I'm doing this from memory, so I may have missed out some
important issues. But I hope this has at least highlighted some
of the difficulties we faced when trying to do statistical
analysis of UFO data. I'm sure ufologists ran into exactly the
same problems, and I'd be interested in people's thoughts on
this.

Best wishes,

Nick Pope








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                    Re: 1956 Lunar Path Light - Maccabee

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 08:28:49 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 15:09:19 -0500
Subject: Re: 1956 Lunar Path Light - Maccabee


>From: Ted Phillips - I.A.I. <archaeoanom.nul-linc.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 09:26:21 -0600
>Subject: Re: 1956 Lunar Path Light

>>From: Cap. Alejandro Franz <alfafox.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 04:44:02 -0700
>>Subject: Re: 1956 Lunar Path Light

>>I found that the picture of the moon is a fake. Maybe that's the
>>ridicule your good friend was afraid of. If you see the part in
>>which the other half side that is part of the moon couldn't let
>>the stars show in the background as it does.

>>See:

>>http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/ufoupdates/listers/ted/images/lunar%201956
.jpg


>Those are not stars, they are dust particles and various debris
>from lying around for 50 years - you need a course on
>photography, my friend.

I agree with the dust hypothesis (and some photographic noise, I
presume). I am puzzled by the extremely bright overexposed(?)
spot at the center. Without trying to scale the picture
accurately I would guess that the arc is over 100 miles long.









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                      Re: Humans In MicroGravity - Pope

From: Nick Pope <nick.nul>
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 15:20:18 -0000
Fwd Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 15:10:57 -0500
Subject: Re: Humans In MicroGravity - Pope


>From: Walt Williams <walt_williams.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 13:25:01 +0000
>Subject: Humans In MicroGravity

>I found an interesting paper regarding certain physiological
>effects on Humans in 'space', could give clue about some of the
>problems ET might have had to resolve.

<snip>

Walt,

Thanks for posting this. Interesting stuff. It's also important
to bear in mind the psychological difficulties that may arise.

This is a major issue for NASA, and you may find the following
paper of interest, as it covers both physiological and
psychological factors:

http://human-factors.arc.nasa.gov/eas/Stress%20and%20Cognition.pdf

If the link doesn't work, search NASA's site using the phrase
psychological effect (without using inverted commas) and it
should come out at the top.


Best wishes,

Nick Pope









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                        Re: For Jaime Maussan - Boone

From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 10:56:24 EST
Fwd Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 15:14:40 -0500
Subject: Re: For Jaime Maussan - Boone


>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
>Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 15:01:34 -0500
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Subject: For Jaime Maussan

>Hi All,

>Excuse me for using the List in order to contact Jaime Maussan.
>I have been trying to reach him for several days but all my
>messages keep getting bounced by his server.

>Jaime, If you are reading this, could you please contact me at
>your earliest convenience? Thank you.

>And thank you to the List members for your indulgence.


Likewise! Didn't get bounced emails but it's important to get
hold of Jaime Maussan. I have some awesome news for him!

What's cool about Jaime Maussan is when you mention his
name in my neighborhood people just beam with joy! Our top
minister wouldn't shut up about a story Jaime did years ago.

Then there's a foxy actress who I go to class with and she
lives up the street. She's on several TV shows and films and
we got to chatting one day about Mexico, where she's from,
and I asked her if she'd been on television there and of course
she'd been on numerous shows.

I asked her if she'd ever watched Jaime Maussan on TV and she
almost exploded with cool Jaime Maussan stories.

You've got to hand it to Jaime because anyone with fans as
beautiful as she is has got the world on a string!


Best,

Greg








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              Re: Harrassment - Has It Happened To You? - Boone

From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 13:44:12 EST
Fwd Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 15:18:30 -0500
Subject: Re: Harrassment - Has It Happened To You? - Boone


>From: Eleanor White <eleanor.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 16:41:29 -0500
>Subject: Re: Harrassment - Has It Happened To You?

>>From: John Novak <john.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 15:10:39 -0800
>>Subject: Re: Harrassment - Has It Happened To You?

><snip>

>>After cleaning up the mess, I sat own at my computer to send out
>>an urgent email about a UFO event that had taken place over the
>>weekend while we were gone. As soon as I hit the "send" button,
>>my computer crashed. It crashed so hard that I had to get a
>>whole new computer system. Hard drive, processor, modem, video
>>card...everything. The entire computer was wiped out. I still
>>do not know if that was a legitimate terrorist warning they were
>>privy to, or if it was meant to intimidate after thrashing our
>>room and computer.

>Sounding familiar to this "mind control" harassment veteran.

<snip>


>>I really began to get scared at this point. Like I said, we had
>>just returned from Seattle. While in Seattle, I met up with a
>>different researcher who passed me along some very intersting
>>information that is now evidence in a class action lawsuit
>>agsinst the Federal Reserve (see our website for those details).
>>When returning to the ranch, there was a physicist and his wife
>>who had been doing research on "free energy" systems amongst
>>other technologies with James. After we all talked over what had
>>just transpired, he helped me calm down and suggested my wife
>>and I go get a meal at the restaurant down the road.

>>Sounded like a great plan. However, on the road to the
>>restaurant, we began noticing white vans and Chevy suburbans
>>passing us by, making sudden u-turns and then following us.

>Sounds familiar. In my case it's been a guy who looked like a
>clone of Mafia Don Carlo Gambino. Others have had white
>'government' vehicles shadow them too.

<snip>

Well I'll be!!! Eleanor I think you've just hit the nail on the
head.

A fellow who looked like the late 'Carlo Gambino'? Well I've
got a suprise for you:

I've seen this guy. Not only him but an accomplice of his I
nailed last week. I can't go into details, 'cause no one would
believe me, but it fits into something I've been researching.

I think I know who these people are and what their agenda is but
its so far out no one would believe it without doing the foot
work. What I did instead was went to a group who handles these
types of people. Rest assured his accomplice got what she
deserved cause I've never seen a woman of that bulk get up and
haul butt that fast.

Yep, I think we're finally whittling down the culprits and from
what I know so far it's not the U.S. government. Thanks to Nick
Pope's response, to this thread, I had to realize that govt.
only goes so far. Their resources limited and legal reasons.

Yet there are groups that don't have those limitations and if
what I've gathered is true it brings things around in a full
circle to what I'd read years ago during our own government's
analysis of this phenomena from back in the late 40's.

I think Budd Hopkins and Dr. Jacobs are on the right track but
don't have the names of the culprits. I think my people do and
not only that, it's far more intertwined with what we really
are, not what we pretend to be.

Extraterrestrial may have to be re-defined or tossed out all
together.


Best,

Greg








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                      Re: "Like A Giant Star" - Ledger

From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 02:54:36 -0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 15:25:47 -0500
Subject: Re: "Like A Giant Star" - Ledger


>From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>To: - UFO UpDates Subscribers - <UFO-UpDates.nul>
>Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 10:50:57 -0500
>Subject: UFO UpDate: "Like A Giant Star"

>Source: North Bay News North Bay, Ontario

>http://www.baytoday.ca/content/news/details.asp?c15

>"Like A Giant Star"

>Saturday, February 14, 2004

>By Phil Novak BayToday.ca

>BayToday.ca received the following anonymous email this morning and
>would like to know if anybody else witnessed what is described or
>took digital pictures:

Someone in Nova Scotia reported to an astronomy.com discussion
group that he saw a "mystery smudge" to the right of Orion last
evening.

There was a rocket launch from Canaveral last evening and it
left an exhaust plume.

This from another List that tracks satellites and launches etc.,:

---

"....this evening (2/14) and looked up at 7:29 p.m. Central time
and saw a small pale blue cloud about 1.5 degrees in diameter
in Eridanus at RA 4h 10m, -8 degrees declination. The sky was
otherwise cloudless. The puff remained in the same area but slowly
expanded and faded over 35 minutes. I have heard of barium releases
to study the ionosphere -- was this one of those? Your comments are
appreciated!"


Reply:

"That was the exhaust from the circularization burn of the
upper stage of the IUS from the Defense Satellite Program
(DSP) launch several hours earlier from Cape Canaveral.

"We".. saw it from about 110-115 km (70 or so miles) NW of
Austin, from a dark site - a roadside in the country (because
it was cloudy over our planned site, Canyon of the Eagles, when
we came to the "fork in the road").

****estimated the integrated magnitude to be possibly as
bright as +1. The burn was at 1:22 UTC (7:22 PM CST). At
the very beginning it was strikingly well defined, an
isoceles triangle with the two long sides slightly curved and
a very flat shorter edge on the WSW.

The triangular shape persisted for quite some time, as the cloud
expanded and grew more diffuse and faint.

"We" thought that we were able to see the light of the burn in
an 8-inch scope."

---

None of this has been confirmed, however the launch did occur.

I wonder if this was the object" in question?

I removed the names.

Best,

Don Ledger









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                     Re: 1956 Lunar Path Light - Ledger

From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 02:59:06 -0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 15:28:49 -0500
Subject: Re: 1956 Lunar Path Light - Ledger


>From: Lan Fleming <lfleming5.nul>
>To: UFO Updates <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 16:14:56 -0600
>Subject: Re: 1956 Lunar Path Light

<snip>

>Ray,

>You're right on target here. I've seen other photographs taken by
>Earth-based telescopes that show similar lights, one of them in an
>old issue of Sky and Telescope. They tend to appear near the moon's
>day/night terminator as this one does.

>One theory is that the light flashes are electrical discharges that
>have something to do with differences in electric potential between
>the day-side and the night-side of the terminator. Some people might
>shout "UFO" too quickly. Others, obviously, shout "hoax" too quickly.

Hi Lan,

Don't forget that Ted said the astronomer "waited" until the
light got near the terminator so as to give the picture maximum
contrast.


Don Ledger









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                    Re: 1956 Lunar Path Light - Balaskas

From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul>
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 14:24:02 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
Fwd Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 15:37:34 -0500
Subject: Re: 1956 Lunar Path Light - Balaskas


>From: Lan Fleming <lfleming5.nul>
>To: UFO Updates <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 16:14:56 -0600
>Subject: Re: 1956 Lunar Path Light

>>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 09:27:37 -0500
>>Subject: Re: 1956 Lunar Path Light - Stanford

<snip>

>>http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/ufoupdates/listers/ted/images/lunar%201956
.jpg

>>Captain Franz,

>>Although I am not commenting on whether the photo under
>>discussion is authentic (i.e., not fake by the astronomer), I
>>think a more objective interpretation of the many white spots on
>>the right is that they are probably either the result of light-
>>blocking debris on the negative making white spots on the photo
>>print emulsion, and/or just damage to, or else light-colored
>>debris upon, the face of the photo, per se, or conceivably even
>>a combination of the two.  After all, the photo is said to have
>>been made in 1956, so it, and/or its negative, is 47 or 48 years
>>old. Photos and negatives can get awfully damaged in that amount
>>of time.

>Ray,

>You're right on target here. I've seen other photographs taken
>by Earth-based telescopes that show similar lights, one of them
>in an old issue of Sky and Telescope. They tend to appear near
>the moon's day/night terminator as this one does.

>One theory is that the light flashes are electrical discharges
>that have something to do with differences in electric potential
>between the day-side and the night-side of the terminator. Some
>people might shout "UFO" too quickly. Others, obviously, shout
>"hoax" too quickly.

Hi Lan!

Yes, there are literally thousands of such bright lights
reported moving in front of or near the surface of the Moon
prior to the start of the space age in the late 1950s. A few
have even been captured on film and video. An astronomer friend
of mine with the Dominion Astrophysical Observatory even saw one
such bright and unexplained light himself during the years of
the Apollo flights to the Moon which was confirmed by an
astronomer colleague of his in Kansas.

Amateur astronomer and ufologist Chris Rutkowski even wrote
about these lights, also known as Transient Lunar Phenomena or
TLPs, which had been observed by many on the Moon in an article
published in the 'Journal of the Royal Astronomical Society of
Canada'. Although there could very well be different
explanations for each one (eg. meteors striking the Moon, an
asteroid passing between Earth and Moon, a volcanic eruption,
etc.), collectively TLPs have remained a mystery to this day.

To me, this particular picture of a TLP taken in 1956 could very
well turn out to be a double exposure. The Moon is always a
popular object to photograph by people through small telescopes
and so are the bright planets. Since both the Moon and the
planet would have been centered in the pictures taken with a
telescope, this picture could be a double exposure. Also, the
relative size of this bright object (slightly overexposed and of
a different phase than that of the Moon?) is about the right
size for a planet too if taken under the same magnification.

Of course, if the testimony of the college professor is accurate
and that the bright object was moving while he observed it, then
it could not possibly be a double exposure or even a planet. I
would then guess that this bright object was a particularly
large near Earth asteroid or a UFO - like the many which were
observed and reported in pre-Sputnik times by scientists and the
military. There is even an account of a successful attempt in
contacting the occupants of two E.T. spacecraft which were
initially thought to be two large meteoroids captured by the
Earth that remained in orbit for only a short while, but that is
another story.

One additional comment, if the UFO in the Apollo 16 images that
were written about recently in the 'Journal for Scientific
Exploration' and which ufologist Grant Cameron is currently
studying turn out to be of a real massive object as is
suspected, this UFO would be about as big as the bright object
in this 1956 picture of the Moon.


Nick Balaskas








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                       Re: Excalibur Briefing - Shell

From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 19:13:59 -0800
Fwd Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 15:39:26 -0500
Subject: Re: Excalibur Briefing - Shell


>From: Chris Burns <Thurstonoreggae.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 12:24:27 EST
>Subject: Excalibur Briefing

>Finally got a copy of the book Excalibur Briefing by Thomas
>Bearden, and before delving into it I went looking for
>commentary and/or criticism of it, but found none.

>I'd be interested on hearing from anyone familiar with the book
>who might offer some comments about it.

I seem to recall that it was filled with the kind of dense, yet
somehow unverifiable balderdash typical of the sub-genre.
Questions always remain begged. And the last twenty years
nothing much has developed to illuminate his various statements.

It's entertaining, though, if you like that kind of science
paranoia stuff. Royal Rife, Nikola Tesla, Wilhelm Reich, Richie
Rich, etc. It's not the worst way to kill a rainy afternoon.








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              The "Bunny" And The Mainstream Media's Literalism

From: Mac Tonnies <macbot.nul>
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 12:05:14 -0800 (PST)
Fwd Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 15:43:15 -0500
Subject: The "Bunny" And The Mainstream Media's Literalism


See: http://posthumanblues.blogspot.com

--Mac Tonnies


OY!!! Those "debunkers" sure are a clever lot, huh?

The esteemed New York Times, no less......

Instead of going out of its way to edify the public with a
guffaw-inducing image of the Face on Mars with cartoon rabbit
ears, why didn't the Times' illustrious staff do any
investigative reporting?

If they had, they'd learn that the lander-debris idea is porous,
that the so-called "bunny" has evidently moved, that the
Opportunity rover had a perfect chance to take a closer look but
was steered onward to save "precious machine time," and that no
one - not even the biggest nuts out there (and there are a ton
of them) - think the "bunny" is actually a rabbit (I personally
labeled it the "pronged object", in an unsuccessful attempt to
avoid "hit-pieces" like this one).

The Times is brandishing the "bunny" label literally. What about
"Sushi," the rock lovingly (and quite incomprehensibly) named by
JPL's own? Will the Times run a condescending article chastising
NASA geologists for suggesting the presence of raw fish in a
Martian crater?








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   Feb > Feb 15

                         Approaching Comet C/2002 T7

From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul>
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 15:10:16 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
Fwd Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 15:47:46 -0500
Subject: Approaching Comet C/2002 T7


Hi Everyone!

Dr. J. Allen Hynek, astronomer and UFO consultant to the U.S.
Air Force, was born in 1910 when Comet Halley made a
particularly close approach to the Earth and predicted that he
would leave Earth when Comet Halley returned. Hynek died in
1986, the same year Comet Halley made its next visit to us,
although not as close to the Earth as in 1910 when we passed
through its tail.

Bright comets are very rare and possibly for this reason there
is much fascination with them. About a month ago the U.S.
'Stardust' spacecraft made a close encounter with Comet Wild 2
to take pictured of and capture some comet dust too. This
spacecraft (which has the names of some MUFON Ontario and UFO
UpDates subscribers onboard) is now on its long trip back to
Earth along with this comet dust.

Below is an announcement of another comet which may very well
turn out to be the brightest in recent years.


Nick Balaskas


---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 12:56:14 -0600
From: SpaceWeather.com <swlist.nul>
To: SpaceWeather.com <swlist.nul>
Subject: Approaching Comet C/2002 T7

Spaceweather News for Feb. 15, 2004
http://spaceweather.com

Comet C/2002 T7 (LINEAR) is approaching Earth and brightening
every day. It's not yet a naked-eye object, but the 7th-
magnitude fuzzball is easy to see through backyard telescopes.
The comet lies not far from brilliant Venus in the western sky
after sunset.

For the next three months, the comet will continue to brighten
as it nears Earth. May 19th is the date of closest approach
(0.27 AU). At that time C/2002 T7 might glow brighter than a 1st
magnitude star--easily seen with the unaided eye. (Note: there
is considerable uncertainty about how bright this object will
become.) In May you'll have to be in the southern hemisphere to
see it easily. Now is the best time for northern hemisphere
observers to look, before the comet plunges south.

Visit Spaceweather.com for more information and images.

---








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   Feb > Feb 15

                    Re: 1956 Lunar Path Light - Stanford

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 15:24:08 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 15:49:37 -0500
Subject: Re: 1956 Lunar Path Light - Stanford


>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 08:28:49 -0500
>Subject: Re: 1956 Lunar Path Light

<snip>

>I agree with the dust hypothesis (and some photographic noise, I
>presume). I am puzzled by the extremely bright overexposed(?)
>spot at the center. Without trying to scale the picture
>accurately I would guess that the arc is over 100 miles long.

Huh??? It all depends on the distance, Bruce, as you surely
realize. Are you presuming the alleged light source was at the
distance of the moon? If so, what is the basis for such a
presumption?


Ray Stanford








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             Anonymous Caller Claims "Intimate" Monsanto Status

From: Kenny Young <ufo.nul>
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 15:59:52 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 17:08:55 -0500
Subject: Anonymous Caller Claims "Intimate" Monsanto Status


Anonymous Caller Claims "Insider" MONSANTO Status Remarks fuel
earlier claim of Dayton, OH corporation

In mid-1995 a Springfield, Ohio man alleged that 'parts and
components' of a crashed flying saucer held at Wright Patterson
AFB (Fairborn, OH) were taken and, under light security,
reverse-engineered at the Monsanto Research Corporation on
Nicholas Road in nearby Dayton, Ohio. Several years ago, a
report concerning this claim was posted online at:

http://home.fuse.net/ufo/monsanto.htm

Most recently, a caller to the Cincinnati UFO Hotline (513-588-
4548) has responded to that internet report. The caller,
apparently not choosing to leave a name or contact info, offers
the following comments enclosed below. If he reads this, I would
like him to phone again with additional information, and
possibly try to find a way that I can make contact. Rest assured
that privacy and confidentiality will be respected.....

-- KY

---

Anonymous caller of January 17, 2004
9:07 PM

"Good Evening Mr. Young. I was just doing some looking on the
web and ran across your "Monsanto-Nicholas Road" article on the
reverse engineering and the scary guy that came in and
supervised things. Well... yeah, uh huh... that's fairly
accurate. The guy you were talking to, he ah.... there's not
many details in that story but its kind of accurate. Monsanto
Board of Directors used to have a facility in the Merchandise
Mart in Chicago on the 9th floor. I am intimate with that
facility and also intimate with the Chesterfield, Missouri
genetics engineering labs and some of the instruments that have
been "given" to them so that they can give us our genetic corn
and do cancer research - your guy wasn�t too far off, man."

Second call on same date,
9:10 PM

"You want some more interesting information... well the Monsanto
Board of Directors... their meeting room where the board members
meet to discuss such matters has a tape on it that includes 24
computerized computers built into the table... and another Board
of Directors, apparently they all get their own individual
stuff. There is a... crap....a time-frame... there is a huge
underground facility underneath the Chesterfield, Missouri
location, down in the sub-basements - its absolutely
astronomically big - huge facility. Navtech is the company that
currently has tenant rights on the ex-Monsanto areas. Just
confirmation for you, but you not want to... you might not want
to pursue it too much because some of the folks involved in that
stuff are really scary, man."

---

UFO Research
http://home.fuse.net/ufo








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                     Re: 1956 Lunar Path Light - Fleming

From: Lan Fleming <lfleming5.nul>
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 14:54:57 -0600
Fwd Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 17:10:48 -0500
Subject: Re: 1956 Lunar Path Light - Fleming


>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 02:59:06 -0400
>Subject: Re: 1956 Lunar Path Light

>>From: Lan Fleming <lfleming5.nul>
>>To: UFO Updates <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 16:14:56 -0600
>>Subject: Re: 1956 Lunar Path Light

><snip>

>>You're right on target here. I've seen other photographs taken by
>>Earth-based telescopes that show similar lights, one of them in an
>>old issue of Sky and Telescope. They tend to appear near the moon's
>>day/night terminator as this one does.

>>One theory is that the light flashes are electrical discharges that
>>have something to do with differences in electric potential between
>>the day-side and the night-side of the terminator. Some people might
>>shout "UFO" too quickly. Others, obviously, shout "hoax" too quickly.

>Hi Lan,

>Don't forget that Ted said the astronomer "waited" until the
>light got near the terminator so as to give the picture maximum
>contrast.

I'd overlooked that comment. If this light was first observed
away from the terminator, that would make the electrical
discharge hypothesis less likely, at least for this particular
image.

By the way, the general term astronomers give to this sort of
thing is "transient lunar phenomenon." The bright flashes are
usually near the terminator, but there are other types of TLPs
as well, such as dim reddish glows and cloud-like features.
These seem to be more associated with certain locations on the
moon and some astronomers think they may have something to do
with volcanism even though the Moon is considered to be
geologically dead.








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   Feb > Feb 15

                 Re: The "Bunny" And The Mainstream Media's

From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy.nul>
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 14:00:25 -0800
Fwd Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 17:12:33 -0500
Subject: Re: The "Bunny" And The Mainstream Media's


>From: Mac Tonnies <macbot.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 12:05:14 -0800 (PST)
>Subject: The "Bunny" And The Mainstream Media's Literalism

>See: http://posthumanblues.blogspot.com

>--Mac Tonnies

>OY!!! Those "debunkers" sure are a clever lot, huh?

>The esteemed New York Times, no less......

>Instead of going out of its way to edify the public with a
>guffaw-inducing image of the Face on Mars with cartoon rabbit
>ears, why didn't the Times' illustrious staff do any
>investigative reporting?

<snip>

>The Times is brandishing the "bunny" label literally. What about
>"Sushi," the rock lovingly (and quite incomprehensibly) named by
>JPL's own? Will the Times run a condescending article chastising
>NASA geologists for suggesting the presence of raw fish in a
>Martian crater?

Mac,

What would be funny is if this thing is a hatchling of some sort
and it follows the Rover eveywhere-like a  baby duck. <G>

Every where the rover goes here's 'junior'- would be kind of
hard to explain.


GT McCoy









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                    Re: 1956 Lunar Path Light - Maccabee

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 17:06:32 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 17:15:00 -0500
Subject: Re: 1956 Lunar Path Light - Maccabee


>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 15:24:08 -0500
>Subject: Re: 1956 Lunar Path Light

>>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 08:28:49 -0500
>>Subject: Re: 1956 Lunar Path Light

<snip>

>>I agree with the dust hypothesis (and some photographic noise, I
>>presume). I am puzzled by the extremely bright overexposed(?)
>>spot at the center. Without trying to scale the picture
>>accurately I would guess that the arc is over 100 miles long.

>Huh??? It all depends on the distance, Bruce, as you surely
>realize. Are you presuming the alleged light source was at the
>distance of the moon? If so, what is the basis for such a
>presumption?

Yup. I realized after I sent the message late last night that I
should have included the assumption that the object - if it was
an object - was actually on the moon.

Actually, all we know is that it was between the moon and the
telescope. The thin curved line appears to be in good focus
(otherwise would be a fat curved line) and so is probably not
close to the telescope. How close it could be and still be in
good focus I don't know without knowing the focal length and
aperture diameter of the telescope.

If the arc was actually moving, as claimed, then it would seem
to be anomalous. The angular length is 0.0005-0.0006 radians
approx. (very quick estimate... might be wrong!).

That would be 5-6 ft at about 2 miles.

It appears to be brighter than the background.

Don't know what time the photo was taken, but there would be
some altitude above the earth at which something between the
telescope and the moon would become lit by the sun.








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                  Blue Hare - Redux [was: 50 Years ago The

From: Max Burns <max.burns.nul>
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 22:24:32 -0000
Fwd Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 17:20:27 -0500
Subject: Blue Hare - Redux [was: 50 Years ago The


>From: Joe McGonagle <joe.mcgonagle.nul>
>To: <ufoUpDates.nul>
>Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 12:23:17 -0000
>Subject: Re: 50 Years ago The Coniston UFO Photograph

>>From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg.nul>
>>To: ufoUpDates.nul
>>Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 04:31:57 -0600
>>Subject: Re: 50 Years ago The Coniston UFO Photograph

>>>From: Chris Parr <cparr.nul>
>>>To: <ufoUpDates.nul>
>>>Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 22:48:03 -0000
>>>Subject: Re: 50 Years ago The Coniston UFO Photograph

><snip>

>>"Prolonged and desperate," Mr. Parr, I think more accurately
>>describes a belligerent attempt by Mr. Roberts to recapture
>>credibility lost as a result of an arrogant admission he made
>>(while in his post conference cups, I understand) regarding
>>"blue hare", that he (and the good Doctor "C") had been hoaxing
>>around in Ufology "for years".

>Hmm... I don't recall Dave Clarke being implicated in the Blue
>Hare hoax/test/experiment/crime/blasphemous sin? Perhaps I
>missed something?

Alfred & Chris, EBK & Listers

Perhaps for those who miss things, I have supplied the full
detail of the Blue Hare attempted hoax against me. Which
includes the full admission of who was involved and in what.

Perhaps the reason that often people miss things is when they
are offered the evidence for free they refuse to even look at
it.

The extract is taken from my article which appeared in NFB. The
full article is soon to go on line available to all interested
parties on line.

I will inform the List when this happens.


Paste from The Usual Suspects.

The Blue Hare game plan was to come forward after I
released bogus information as fact and thereby discredit
my investigation into the Sheffield case. When that failed,
the originators released the disinformation in such a way
as to look like they had pulled off some sort of intelligence
coup. The only thing it actually proved is I verify facts
before using them. Not the impression the disinformers
sought to convey. The title of the post announcing
BLUE HARE's debut on the UFO UpDates mailing list was
outrageous to say the least.

'Max Burns Hoax Exposed'.

Considering my only involvement in a hoax was to resist it,
this is rather rich. This was a last ditch attempt to close me
down and contaminate my research by confusing FACT
with FICTION. The very thing Roberts and Clarke
have accused me of throughout my investigation. When the
attempted 'Blue Hare' hoax landed on the UFO UpDates
mailing list in June 1999 Roberts wrote of it:

"You've got to laugh and admire at the gall of whoever was
behind this hoax (which takes several readings before the full
ramifications sink in). No doubt there will now be a flurry of
'outraged' decent Ufologists who are appalled at such a hoax
[attempted hoax: Max Burns] being perpetrated on the 'UFO
community'. They will be wrong. There is a long tradition of
hoaxing within Ufology and associated subjects, and careful hoax
experiments can only be helpful" [helpful to whom? MB] "However
unpalatable this may seem it is true. The Burns hoax is just one
in a long line of instructive exercises which we ignore at our
peril" Roberts continued. "As the hoaxer/s say: 'caveat lector'
(surely related to Hannibal Lector judging by the way Burns was
chewed up and spat out!)"

[** Andy Roberts 21/6/99 UFO UpDates mailing List].

The phrase 'Burns hoax' is highly significant. When I revealed
the truth of my dealings with 'Blue Hare' (aka Roberts Clarke
and troops) to UFO UpDates [** 10/7/99] Roberts quickly
responded.

He wrote:

"Firstly, most of what Max says is based in some truth. But note
the words 'most' and 'some'. Secondly, most of what Max says is
open to interpretation and his particular brand of paranoid
'spin doctoring'. To reply to each and every tedious allegation
would be time consuming and boring"

[** Andy Roberts 13/7/99 UFO UpDates].

The fact is if my post had been wrong Roberts would have been on
it straight away. To feign a brush off rather than provide a
proper answer is a standard tactic amongst this lot. Blue Hare's
message to UFO UpDates was certainly eye-catching.


ATTENTION A MESSAGE FROM GENIUS LOKI FOLLOWS

"We are a group of people, active in UFO hoaxing since the mid
80s, going under the collective name of Genius Loki. We believe
if are unable to determine that a case is hoaxed or not then
they should stick to watching sci-fi.

Stupidity within Ufology has reached new peaks of intensity
during the last two years. The latest example is how the so-
 called Sheffield Incident/Howden Moors UFO Crash has been
promoted by certain individuals".

I am not now claiming a UFO crashed, but initially gave credence
to this hypothesis, along with other suggestions. Even before
the Blue Hare hoax was being perpetrated I revised my findings
in response to new evidence. At that juncture I thought a
military jet had crashed. My updated research was in the public
domain, lecture contents definitely in Clarke/Roberts'
possession courtesy of Tim Matthews/Hepple. The truth of my
views or anybody else's of no interest to 'Blue Hare' crew,
except as something to misrepresent.

Though I did not use the bogus Blue Hare information in
my research Roberts/Clarke have tried to transform my
investigation into a hoax by claiming the entire 24/3/97
events a hoax.. Blue Hare was from start to finish a
distraction. As they themselves put it

"This is not the place to go into the specifics of the case.
Many will be familiar with it already and it has been widely
featured on UFO UpDates and UFO Magazine. Several websites have
also featured the case in depth. From our point of view it had
been satisfactorily solved. But there are those who will not see
reason and instead see saucers and conspiracy everywhere". I see
a conspiracy because Blue Hare was one in pure form: more than
three people acting against another. "As part of our hoaxing
experiments we decided to see just how good a researcher Burns
and his supporters were and devised a scenario which would test
their investigative powers. Burns was emailed from an anonymous
source on 20 March 1999. As time went on it became clear that
Burns was prepared to manipulate facts to promote his fanciful
version of the Sheffield Incident. According to Dr David Clark's
investigation of the Howden Moors/Sheffield Incident there was
no evidence to indicate either a Tornado had crashed or that a
UFO had been involved. Nor did Dr Clark find evidence of a
cover-up. As far as we could see, Clark's investigation was
comprehensive and exhaustive. The case was closed - but NOT
apparently for Max Burns".

[** 'Bluehare' UFO UpDates 20/6/99].


Although we pretty much knew Roberts Clarke & Matthews/Hepple
were behind it hard evidence was needed.

At the annual Fortean Times UnConvention in London 13-14/4/02.
In the bar after the first day Malcolm Robinson & Judith Jaafar
demanded to know why Roberts and Clarke had both tried to plant
false information into my research? As Roberts had been drinking
he was loose-lipped, and did not deny he and Clarke were behind
Blue Hare. Useful as this admission was, it was still relatively
private. The next day Roberts and Clarke were on the panel.
Matthew Williams dropped it on his toes in front of 500 people,
asking him to confirm or deny what was admitted the night
before. Flustered, Roberts again conceded involvement in the
Blue Hare hoax as another member of the panel, Judith Jaafar,
was present the night before when under the influence Roberts
let slip his and Dr Clarke's involvement. Clarke seemed
concerned about Roberts' admission, with good reason. Eight days
later (22/4/02) Roberts sent an email to Matthew Williams via
Judith Jaafar.


Dear Matthew,

I'd like to make a clear, unequivocal statement which you can
cut out and keep to show whoever you like - but which I'd like
you to always quote in full and not out of context. [Yet again,
Roberts demands a hearing in full and not to be misquoted.
Courtesies he and his fellow suspects deny critics]. "Dr Dave
Clarke, myself and others as yet unnamed were behind the Blue
Hare hoax (Tim Matthews came along for the ride but wasn't
actually 'involved'). * We are also behind several other UFO (as
yet unrevealed) hoaxes dating back to the late 1980s * These
have/are being carried out as controlled experiments to test: -
 how belief spreads - how easy it is to introduce new motifs
into the subject - how competent UFO investigators are - how
easily the media can be manipulated Results of some of these
experiments will be made public when the time is right. Others,
necessarily so, will remain embedded with the subject.

[** Private e-mail Roberts To Matthew Williams 22/4/02].

Extract taken from NFB issue five

www.borderland.co.uk

Max Burns








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                    Re: 1956 Lunar Path Light - Stanford

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 18:02:09 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 09:42:17 -0500
Subject: Re: 1956 Lunar Path Light - Stanford


>From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 14:24:02 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
>Subject: Re: 1956 Lunar Path Light - Balaskas

<snip>

>One additional comment, if the UFO in the Apollo 16 images that
>were written about recently in the 'Journal for Scientific
>Exploration' and which ufologist Grant Cameron is currently
>studying turn out to be of a real massive object as is
>suspected, this UFO would be about as big as the bright object
>in this 1956 picture of the Moon.

Hi Nick,

Is there any way non-members of Sturrock's organization can
access that Apollo 16-related report?

Ray Stanford

"You know my method. It is founded upon the observance of
trifles." -- Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery







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                        Re: Off-Season UFOs - Hebert

From: Amy Hebert <vanguard.nul>
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 17:19:27 -0600
Fwd Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 09:44:42 -0500
Subject: Re: Off-Season UFOs - Hebert


>From: Nick Pope <nick.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 11:10:46 -0000
>Subject: Re: Off-Season UFOs

<snip>

Hi, Nick:

I'm wondering how the information yielded from your study could be
turned around and used to disguise tests of secret military projects
and/or psychological responses to unknown/novel stimuli.

>When running the UK Government's UFO project I asked a member of
>staff to do a study into the geographical spread of sightings. I
>gave her some outline maps of the UK and asked her to go through
>the files for the last three years, marking the locations. Here
>are some of the issues that arose:

>To give one example of how this can affect the
>data, we knew that a high proportion of UFO sightings were
>caused by misidentifications of aircraft or aircraft lights.
>Therefore, any meaningful analysis of the geographical spread of
>UFO sightings should take account of the location of
>flightpaths. There are many other things to factor in: the sites
>where weather balloons are launched, areas where airships fly,
>etc.

If someone wanted to test aircraft with various lighting
patterns, CC&D, stealth, etc., would this be a good location? If
there were any witnesses, photographs, video footage, could they
be dismissed, discredited or ignored by citing nearby
flightpaths, airports, launch facilities, etc.?

>The media can create a UFO wave. When a UFO story runs in a
>local newspaper, the article often ends with a request that
>other witnesses come forward. This creates a receptive
>environment for reports, and UFO witnesses who might otherwise
>have said nothing will feel more comfortable about speaking out,
>and will have an obvious outlet. There can be a domino effect
>here; a local newspaper might run a story and ask for other
>witnesses to get in touch; local radio or television may then
>pick up the story and make a similar request. Finally, even
>national newspapers or television channels may run the story.
>Before you know it, you have the next Warminster or Bonnybridge
>on your hands. Are such places really UFO hotspots, or are they
>just areas that have been portrayed as such? Once an area gets a
>reputation as a hotspot, ufologists go on skywatches there, and
>may direct reporters and documentary makers to these areas as
>opposed to others. Things are seen in these locations because
>this is where people are looking. It becomes a self-fulfilling
>prophesy.

How could the media and UFO "waves" be used in tests of secret
aircraft as well as psychological responses to novel stimuli?
Could these events be related to psyops?

Could UFO "hotspots" be used as testing grounds for man-made
UFOs? How could data related to UFO "hotspots" be used in
military strategies in peace time and in war?  Are there any
correlations between UFO "hotspots"? Are there patterns related
to UFO "hotspots" and UFO sightings in general?

What consistencies and descrepancies appear in relation to data
acquired from UFO "hotspots"?

>This point about the media is also important to bear in mind
>when looking at apparent peaks in UFO sightings at a particular
>time, as well as in a particular location. Media interest in a
>UFO story is likely to be short-lived, but the receptive
>environment for sighting reports that exists while the media
>spotlight is on can skew the figures for anyone trying to plot
>whether there are more sightings at a particular time of year.

If there was a need to deceive the general public about the
_real_ UFO sighting peaks and locations, could the media, UFO
organizations, etc. be used to create skewed data (aka
misinformation/disinformation)?

>UFO researchers can create UFO waves. A proactive researcher
>will smoke out reports that might otherwise not come to light,
>and act as a 'lightning conductor' for such data. In much the
>same way as applies in the point about the media, an apparent
>hotspot does not necessarily mean there are more sightings in a
>particular area. It may simply be that a more receptive
>environment has been created for people to make reports, and a
>higher proportion of UFO sightings will be reported in this area
>as opposed to another.

If someone wanted to establish a UFO 'hotspot' either to test
exotic aircraft or keep attention away from an important testing
area, how would one create an environment receptive to
deception?

What would be the best location? What types of civilian
populations are more likely to accept deception at face value
asking few questions?

Would one choose a location near water, mountains, military
bases, urban, rural? What factors determine an ideal location
for a 'receptive environment'?  Would one consider 'loop holes'
in aviation regulations in the selection of this environment?
 For example: if regulations restrict tests of experimental
aircraft over populated land regions but not over large bodies
of water, would it be possible to create a 'receptive
environment' just off shore or over lakes, etc.? To test human
psychological reactions to experimental aircraft and/or novel
stimuli, could this be done over a large city below a certain
altitude and/or paired with some other event/distraction
(plausible deniability)?

To make sure the event was reported by the media according to
plan, might certain personnel be "planted" at strategic
locations to ensure everything went down as a major or minor UFO
event? Would it make sense to test secret aircraft over or near
highways or areas where respected authorities like policemen,
firemen, etc. would be available as "credible witnesses" and
report seeing a "UFO"? (In the right place at the right time?)

How could "experts", "authorities", researchers, "credible
witnesses", general misinformation and belief systems be used to
keep people believing in certain directions - away from the
truth?

>We need to factor in data on population density. If more UFOs
>are seen in a particular area, might it not reflect the fact
>that there are more people there to see them? Indeed, the
>results of my MOD study produced maps that seemed to reflect
>this very point. More UFO reports came from in and around London
>than from anywhere else, and there were similar clusters around
>major conurbations.

If humans can use CC&D to make aircraft virtually invisible, why
are UFO's visible at all?

>There's an issue regarding how to score multiple witness
>sightings. Do we treat a UFO seen by a family of four as one
>report or four? What about sightings in broadly the same
>location at broadly the same time, but by witnesses not in
>precisely the same location?

If the creators of a UFO wanted it to be seen, where would they
go to be seen? On the flip side of this coin, where would they
go to keep from being seen?

>I no longer have access to the Ministry of Defence's UFO files,
>and I'm doing this from memory, so I may have missed out some
>important issues. But I hope this has at least highlighted some
>of the difficulties we faced when trying to do statistical
>analysis of UFO data. I'm sure ufologists ran into exactly the
>same problems, and I'd be interested in people's thoughts on
>this.

Thank you, Nick.

I was wondering...were you asked by your superiors to do this study or
was it just for your own personal information? Did you share the
results of your study with the MOD, file it - what happened to the
study?

Just wondering... ;>

Sincerely,

A. Hebert







   UFO UpDates
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   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   Feb > Feb 16

                           Filer's Files #07-2004

From: George A. Filer <Majorstar.nul>
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 02:54:58 EST
Fwd Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 09:54:18 -0500
Subject: Filer's Files #07-2004


Filer's Files #07-2004 Skywatch Investigations.
George A. Filer,  Director MUFON Eastern
February 11, 2004, Webmaster: Chuck Warren --
My website is at:  www.georgefiler.com/

Life Once Existed On Mars

The purpose of these files is to report the UFO eyewitness and
photo/video evidence that occurs on a daily basis around the
world and in space.  The European Space Agency Shows Blue River
Like Valleys, Australian Scientists Claim There Was Life on
Mars, New York - A Bright Globe Observed, Pennsylvania - Red,
Green and Amber Lights In The Sky, Georgia - Something Rattled
Our Windows, North Carolina - Bright Disc Shaped Object,
Illinois - Strange Craft Hovers Chicago Midway Airport,
Louisiana - Flying Triangle, Texas - Aurora Seen, New Mexico - -
 Abductions Continue, Arizona - Refractive Sphere, Nevada - Disc
Photographed, California - UFOs spotted, Chile - Forty Percent
See UFOs, UK/England - Flying Triangle Disappears, India - A UFO
With Bright Light, Australia - Three Weeks of Bright Lights.
Review of "Behind the Flying Saucers=E2=80=9D 1949.


I'm at the UFO Congress in Laughlin, Nevada having a wonderful
time, but finding it very difficult to send out these files. I
had dinner last night with many of the speakers who all agree
UFOs are here. I sat next to Leah Haley who has told her story
of personal abductions by aliens, and told me about her new book
"Unlocking Alien Closets.=E2=80=9D  Haktan Akdogan told us about
recent UFO sightings in Turkey and his UFO museum. Professor
James McCanney told us about space ships that ride rivers of
electro-magnetic energy through space.

Life once existed on Mars, Australian scientists

Australian scientists believe they have found evidence that life
once existed on Mars.  They have found that microscopic fossils
of primitive bacteria-like organisms in a Mars meteorite match
characteristics of bacteria found in =D8=F8 mud in  Queensland.  The
research is published today in the Journal of Microscopy.

One of the scientists, Dr. Tony Taylor, from the Australian
Nuclear Science and Technology Organization, says he expects his
work will spark intense debate.

"The fossils that we have in the meteorite are the original
material - the only difference is that you need a very high-
 powered electron microscope to image them, to see them, and
basically whenever we find these fossils here on Earth, no one
ever questions they were made by bacteria," he said.  "The only
difference is that it was in a meteorite from Mars."  Dr. Taylor
says he has found enough evidence of life on Mars to warrant a
manned mission to the red planet, and that more samples must now
be collected from Mars for further investigation.

"We've now got enough evidence to warrant a sample retrieval
mission and I believe it's going to be a matter of developing
the technology to get authentic pieces of Mars back here on
Earth, where we can subject them to the really high-tech high
resolution instruments that you can't possibly put on Mars," he
said. http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/s1033640.htm

New York - A Bright Globe Observed

DEER PARK - Driving west bound on Long Island Expressway on
January 21, 2004, at 5:10 PM, the witness noticed a small
reddish globe glowing between the horizon and Venus around
60,000 feet up. It was a clear sky no clouds, the sun was going
down and the sky was turning colors. This globe would shine
brightly, and streak across (not very far) the sky making a
contrail and then stop. The globe that was glowing red to orange
would disappear. The contrail that it made would dissipate
incredibly fast. Then it appeared again, slightly over from
where it disappeared. It made a glow, drew a contrail and
disappeared after two minutes. Thanks to Peter Davenport
www.ufocenter.com

Pennsylvania - Red, Green and Amber Lights In The Sky

REAMSTOWN - The witness had just awakened at 3:05 AM, on =D8=F8
January 24, 2004, and looked out the window and noticed strange
lights in a row in the western sky. The witness stated, " It was
clear and dark that morning, but I didn't have my glasses on. I
could see the lights all in a row; it looked like a plane in the
dark. It sat there for a moment then started to move. I heard no
sound. There were red, green and amber lights. As it moved away
like a plane would, I saw an airplane fly close by to the
lights. This plane continued over my home. I did hear the second
plane. I wish I had had my glasses on. Thanks to Peter Davenport
www.ufocenter.com

North Carolina - Bright Disc Shaped Object

GREENSBORO - A couple was out on their deck watching how the jet
stream was affecting the speed and direction of airplanes in the
sky on January 24, 2004, at 3:30 PM. They were watching one
plane flying east and one plane flying west and remarking how
much the speed was affected. They saw an extremely bright disc
shaped object in the sky over the PTI airport at a high
altitude. The only thing to compare it to was how Venus has
appeared recently in the night sky. The witness states, "My
girlfriend thought it must be a star and I remarked that it
could possibly be Venus. As we watched, the object appeared to
be getting closer. At the time there were at least six airplanes
visible in the sky and each one was leaving a vapor trail behind
it.

This object was leaving no trail and appeared to be coming
straight down vertically and not horizontally like the
airplanes. The object suddenly seemed to shift direction and
begin to move straight up into the sky. It was getting smaller,
but was still incredibly bright. A small cloud passed in front
of the object, but the object was still clearly visible through
the cloud, when suddenly it just blinked out. When the cloud
passed, nothing was there anymore, leaving us at a loss for what
it could have been. The cloud was small, and there was no way it
could have gone in any direction but straight up, without us
seeing where it went. Thank=D8=F8 s to Peter Davenport
www.ufocenter.com

Georgia - Something Rattled Our Windows

NORCROSS - The witness reports, "My husband and I were sitting
in our living room when we heard a helicopter flying very low,
on January 24, 2004, at 9:30 PM, so we jumped up to see if there
was a search light, maybe it was a police helicopter.=E2=80=9D Then we
saw what looked a lot like a bright star moving rather quickly
across the sky, but it's motions were mechanical, not like a
shooting star since there was no tail, and it did not aim down,
but the chopper seemed to be following it. We ran out to the
front and barely saw the chopper in the distance. Thanks to
Peter Davenport www.ufocenter.com

Illinois - Strange Craft Hovers Chicago Midway Airport

CHICAGO - Three witnesses saw something in the sky on January
24, 2004, at about 7:30 PM in the Midway Airport Area over
Narragansett Avenue. - It was on a cold Saturday evening. One of
the witnesses saw a strange looking craft, just hovering over to
the southwest, near the moon and a bright star. He said, "The
strange craft was way bigger than a huge jet plane, and it had
three enormous lights blinking in alternate patterns. It had
hovered in the same spot for about five minutes without moving
anywhere, but as soon as another person walked up to ask a quick
question, the strange looking craft just vanished into thin air.
Thanks to Peter Davenport www.ufocenter.com

DOWNERS GROVE - On Thursday, January 22, 2004, at 5:30 PM, the
witness was standing on his deck and observed a glowing white
light, moving ENE at approximately 15,000 feet altitude. The
size of the light was estimated as the size of a pencil eraser
held at arm's length. The light was similar to those I have seen
in the past. The witness lives underneath a major air corridor
directly south of O'Hare and directly west of Midway airports in
suburban Chicago. Southbound aircraft departing O'Hare were
operating in the area at 5000-7500 feet, and westbound aircraft
departing Midway wer=D8=F8 e also in the area, flying over the
O'Hare traffic.

The object was above both flight paths, and flew high over an
MD-80 aircraft departing O'Hare. The object didn't have any red
and green running lights, or white anti-collision strobes, or
landing lights normally seen on aircraft in this area. It
entered my vision from above and decelerated and stopped moving,
about two miles downrange of my position. Then, the object
blinked out, and after a second, rapidly reappeared as a star-
like object and accelerated upward at an angle resembling a
curve ball thrown by a baseball pitcher, only upwards. The
witness states, "I have seen this type of object in the Chicago
area, several times in the past two years. It decelerates,
hovers and accelerates at an angle with amazing speed. It was
ABSOLUTELY NOT an aircraft, as I am quite familiar with
aircraft, having worked as an airline executive.=E2=80=9D Thanks to
Peter Davenport www.ufocenter.com

Louisiana - Flying Triangle

DERIDDER - On January 21, 2004, 7:50 PM, three witnesses
spotted something weird, and their dog started barking. The
witness noticed a flying triangle with red lights on the points
and white lights in the middle in the western sky over Deridder.
It was hovering and the air force planes were flying around it.
I called my dad and told him to look at it. l just wanted to ask
people what is going on? Thanks to Peter Davenport
www.ufocenter.com

Texas - Aurora

Last night I believe I witnessed the super secret Aurora
aircraft or similar "V" shaped aircraft fly over my house at a
very low altitude. The arrangement of the lights, sound of the
engine and the contrails were like no other aircraft I have ever
observed. Even my 9 year old could hear the difference from
other jets. He came flying out of the house thinking it was a
UFO. I live just outside San Antonio, Texas and it was a
perfectly clear moonlit night. I understand the aircraft could
have 3 possible power plants (power plants unknown) and=D8=F8 the
information I obtained from my observations last night could
narrow that down, or point to another type of propulsion if it
was the Aurora. It had very strange contrails. I know the
information I have would be useful to someone interested in
"Aurora project/black aircraft" especially the contrails
observed afterwards. Thanks to Steven

New Mexico - Abductions Continue

ROSWELL - Judie writes, "We retired this summer, and have our
twin grandsons, we are raising, here for their senior year.=E2=80=9D
With in weeks I was working at the museum. I just love it. You
would not believe where the people come from and how far they
travel to get information on UFO's. EXCEPT the President of the
U.S. ignored us.  We were prepared with cameras, but if he
stopped, it would be acknowledging they do exist, I guess. I
still have no idea why I am here, but I guess when they are
ready for me to know, I will. I am commenting on the gal who
said it runs in families... My grandmother recently contacted a
friend who is a physic. She called me at almost 10 at night to
talk. One thing she said was that one of my twins is 6th
generation of abductee's. That is correct. At 3 or 4 years he
was doing alien writings. I asked the aliens to stop till he
was at least a teenager. One night we were out of town and he
got very agitated, grabbed a piece of paper and wrote about
danger on the way home. YES - A gunman pulled up behind us on
the way home, as Josh wanted to do a potty call. The abductions
continue, the latest being 3 days ago. Thanks to Judie

Nevada - Disc Photographed

LAS VEGAS - The witness writes, "We took photos of New York,
New York Hotel at 8:30 AM, on January 21, 2004, and upon
developing the photos, a disc shaped object appeared in picture.
Thanks to Peter Davenport www.ufocenter.com

Arizona - Refractive mirror like Sphere observed

SAINT JOHNS - The witness was burning some wood debris near his
home, 15 miles NE of town at about 9 AM on January 30, 2004.
The witness states, "I saw, about 100 yards away, a perfect
sphere about 5 or 6 foot across, hovering 75 yards off the
ground, and it was moving very slow. It appeared to be
observing from a distance. I walked towards the sphere and it
changed direction and as I compensated, it changed direction
again. Here is the important point. I don't think; I was
supposed to see the sphere because it was almost cloaked with
the background. The closest I could come to describing this, was
that it refracted the light almost as if you were looking at a
mirror ball in water. When it became obvious that I could see it
in contrast to the sky by walking directly at it, the craft made
several slow evasive moves, and then dropped away and down
towards the ground and a bush. Then I could not distinguish it,
because there was no contrast to the ground and bush. I was
unable to discern it at this point and lost my view of it. This
event lasted about five minutes." Thanks to Jeff Rense and Peter
Davenport www.ufocenter.com

California - Humming, Bright Green Mass Of Light

SAN DIEGO --My friend saw a green cigar shaped light on a cloudy
night, January 24, 2004, at 7:40 PM. She called me and our
other friend outside. We all watched it for 5 minutes as it
disappeared and reappeared a couple of times, remaining at the
same spot. The green light was incredibly bright and of a color
very phosphoric. It did not have any source, or a tail. It was
just like a mass of green light in the sky. It was quite high,
probably as far as Venus. We weren't able to see it again, as it
got cloudier. Thanks to Peter Davenport

DESERT HOT SPRINGS - The roaring repeating humming noise was
eerie. In 58 years, I have never heard such a low heartbeat
sound EVER. The witness states, " I was in our home office on
January 21, 2004, at 6:50 PM, and the sliding door was open,
when I heard a low humming, pulsating like a heartbeat, from
outdoors. Hum, hum, and hum like it was alive. It was like
an underground motor. I went outdoors and it stopped. We
overlook Palm Springs, CA about 1500 feet above the valley floor
with desert hills behind us. It was dark. I went to the east
side of house and heard a chopper, but did not see that either.
Then north of the house, with my husband, we both saw a solid
red light faster than an airplane, cross the sky from east to
west. I called my neighbor and she said she heard it. The
vibration shook her refrigerator shelves down. In 30 years, she
has never heard or felt anything like it. I sensed the
helicopter was chasing it.

SAN FRANCISCO - A small unidentifiable aircraft, at low
elevation, with two to three different colored lights
(red/white), was observed on January 26, 2004, 11:03 PM. It was
flying at very low speed, without FAA registration id, located
from my vantage point in my apartment at 1960 Fulton Street. It
flew at a SW-NE direction at an altitude of about 600 feet. I
lost visual aircraft contact level with Gillson Hall on USF
campus. It had an odd lower trajectory over a crowded
metropolitan area - morphed from single engine aircraft to
irregular lighting pattern. At a certain point this aircraft was
very identifiable to me as a small single engine Cessna-type
aircraft. However, it flew in a rather odd trajectory with the
only identifiable features being an alternating red and white
flashing light. I have spent some time gathering info to report
to the FAA. Thanks to Peter Davenport www.ufocenter.com

Chili - Mayor of San Jose de Maipo states: 40% OF LOCALS HAVE
SEEN UFOS IN THE CORDILLERA

In January alone over 10 UFO sightings have been reported. No
one knows why they appear, but the fact is that strange lights
cross the area regularly, to the extent that residents of Caj=C3=B3n
del Maipo consider it a normal occurrence.

SANTIAGO, JANUARY 28 - So frequent are the sightings of
phenomena over the skies of Cajon del Maipo that local residents
consider it part of their daily routine. Oscar Farias lives in
the Las Vertientes sector and both he and his wife Maritza
Valero have repeatedly seen UFOs in the Pre-Cordillera.

"We've seen truly surprising spheres and flying saucers. Only
two weeks ago, with my cousin and around 8 am, we saw a silver
saucer in the El Alto del Canelo sector, moving at average speed
and losing itself in the west." Patricia Aros, 37, works for a
service corporation and claims having seen strange lights in the
higher reaches of Caj=C3=B3n del Maipo on a regular basis: "Its
common to see large and small lights moving over this area. I no
longer fear them. We aren't alone in this immense universe and
if these otherworldly beings wanted to harm us they would've
done so already. I think we should be mentally prepared for what
is going to happen in the future. Who knows if tomorrow human
civilization will definitely establish contact with beings from
other worlds?"

So recurrent is the phenomenon that even San Jose de Maipo's
current mayor, Miguel Marquez Olivares, witnessed a "film
worthy" close encounter when he was literally assaulted by a
UFO.

"On that occasion I was in the Del Ingenio sector driving my
pickup truck with my family and group of friends when we
suddenly saw an oval shape vehicle issuing multi-hued lights of
great intensity as it hovered over the hills. Suddenly, in a
matter of seconds, the strange object took off and hovered above
us, killing my truck's engine. It lit up a radius of four
kilometers with an intense white light, which could be seen as
far off as the town of San Gabriel. The experience was truly
intense even though it lasted no more than a minute, because
from one moment to another the light shut itself off and the
phenomenon vanished."

According to the functionary, "40% of the locals have seen UFOs
over the Andean Cordilelra, or rather, have had experiences
involving strange-looking lights and craft. Even the drovers
discuss their furtive encounters with scintillating luminous
phenomena that frighten the  cattle and horses alike." Thanks
to Scott Corrales, Institute of Hispanic Ufology (IHU). For the
translation.

UK/England - Flying Triangle Disappears

LONDON - On January 24, 2004, at 2 PM, a married couple saw
three red lights in a triangle shape flying over. As it got
closer, it flew lower and my wife and I both saw it, so we drove
to see if there was anything there. When we got there, there
was nothing to see. But it was very real! This happened in
London England (Hackney). Thanks to Peter Davenport
www.ufocenter.com

Germany - A Flash Of Light That Lit The Entire Sky

BABENHAUSEN - Standing in formation, 84 soldiers all witnessed
a flash in the sky on January 22, 2004, at 6:25 AM. The sky was
clear and NO lightning was present, although it could have just
been an electrical disturbance in the atmosphere, but I'm not
really certain. The ENTIRE sky lit up. Usually when lightning
bolts strike, you can see a path, but this was NOT a lightning
bolt. The flash appeared for two seconds and vanished. All the
soldiers in formation just looked at each other and scratched
their heads. Although the area is in the flight path of aircraft
landing at Frankfurt International Airport, there were NO
aircraft in the area at the time of the flash. Thanks to Peter
Davenport www.ufocenter.com

India - A UFO With Bright Light

BILASPUR - It was the day when I attended my friend's birthday
party on January 21, 2004, at 8:15 PM, and I was going to my
home with my friend. I left my friend at his house, I looked in
the sky and saw between the trees a triangular shape ship with
bright brown light. I saw it for only 5 seconds. Thanks to
Peter Davenport www.ufocenter.com

Australia - Three Weeks of Bright Color Changing Spheres

CARNARVON GORGE - The witness has seen spheres flying low over
the gorge for three weeks and was able to film some activity
with their handy cam on January 25, 2004, at 7:30 PM. The object
flew slowly west until dispersing  over the mountains. There
was no engine noise when the object was hovering. The observer
continued to drive, and half an hour later saw a similar object
moving up on the left side, again stopped to film, and this
vehicle /object started to move away. The observer returned home
2-3hrs later and saw a bright light in the sky changing color,
and got video footage of it changing colors. The next night he
saw more than one spread out across sky. He has been witnessing
this for three weeks now with little change. Sometimes they move
around, some stay in same spot. He caught one last night giving
off all colors from the down side of craft, then the light
pulled in and changed to the up side of the craft. He has tried
to film stars on the camcorder, but it won't pick them up. When
directed at these objects it picks them up. One light is just to
the right of Orion. Thanks to Peter Davenport www.ufocenter.com

Behind The Flying Saucers Review

Chris Evans who authored "Alien Conspiracy: Unraveling the
UFO/Alien Mystery stated in the MUFON UFO Journal Oct 2003,
that the famous Dr. Gee in Frank Scully's book "Behind The
Flying Saucers was actually the eminent magnetic scientist
Dr. Walter Russel (1871-1963) and much in this book is true.

I had always felt this was a basically factual book because
Scully had met with the first hand witness to at least two UFO
crashes. The book discussed that three flying saucers were found
on this continent and a fourth on the Sahara Desert. Scully and
Dr. Gee (Russel) were driving to Phoenix early in the summer of
1949, and heard a radio news report of a flying saucer and
Scully asked Dr. Russel about them. "Too bad we weren't
associated before, he said. "I could have worked you into the
project of the first one we were called in to examine. It
landed down near Aztec, New Mexico. I got a call and flew down
from Denver in three hours. He started, to tell the details
of two saucers the research magnetic scient ist had personally
seen, examined, checked on, and researched. Dr. Gee might show
us some of the things that had been taken off one flying
saucer=E2=80=94some small disks of a metal unknown to this earth, a
tiny radio which operated under principles quite unknown to our
engineers, a strange cloth, some gears and other small things
which he could carry with him, and which he had taken off one of
the ships for research, after he found members of the Air Force
picking off pieces just for souvenirs.

Showing no feeling whatever that he was airing confidences which
might be violated, he answers all sorts of question concerning
the possible origin of the flying saucers and how they might
have got to this earth from another planet, and, more important
to his mind, how they could have got back to where they came
from. The smallest detail, which a woman might bring up, about
the interior of the cabin of the flying saucer, matters of
water, food, clothing, were quietly explained just a s one might
describe the furniture of his own home. His knowledge of
magnetic energy was as far ahead of us as, say, the knowledge of
atomic-energy scientist mush have been to the average person,
snip. It means more because the geophysicist said he had checked
over two of the saucers and believed they were driven, not by
fuel, jet, turbojet, or even athodyds, but by magnetic power and
that due to certain metals not found on the this earth but found
on the saucers, he suspected the space ships were from another
planet. In fact he ridiculed the idea of anything getting even
as far as the moon on jet propulsion or anything like it.

Before he left he promised us he would show us small parts of
one of the saucers on his next trip from Phoenix. A radio had
him particularly baffled. It had no tubes, no aerials, and no
wires. He guessed the cabin must have been its antenna. He was
trying to rig up a substitute antenna. He could hear a high
singsong note 15 minutes past the hour. However, the d ial was
so micro metrically keyed it was difficult to stay on the wave.
He was thinking of setting up something like a block-and-fall,
which permits a clumsy hand to lift a heavy object. Anyway he'd
take it along. Wasn't much bigger than a king-sized cigarette
package. He said he regretted the ship was dismantled this way
but the Army seems to breed souvenir hunting as it does rank.
When he saw what was happening he grabbed a few things himself,
not to put in his trophy cabinet but to use for research.
(Snip) In time we saw all those things all except the jacket.
We examined the radio, their gears, and the film. Then began
the reign of error. Air Force closed Project Saucer and went
underground. All were told to forget what they knew;
"Hallucinations became a routine answer. "Psycho " became
the veiled threat. Everybody shut up but the people. " Behind
The Flying Saucers Pages 38 to 41.

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George A. Filer
www.georgefiler.com/






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                         Re: Off-Season UFOs - Hatch

From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 15:44:15 -0800
Fwd Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 14:04:44 -0500
Subject: Re: Off-Season UFOs - Hatch


>From: Ray Dickenson <editor.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 23:42:46 +0000
>Subject: Re: Off-Season UFOs

>>From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 10:28:25 -0800
>>Subject: Re: Off-Season UFOs


>>Actually, violent crime figures have decreased significantly.

<snip>

>>>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 02:35:11 -0800
>>>Subject: Re: Off-Season UFOs

>>>If I ever come up with something statistically
>>>interesting, good numbers pointing to a pattern,
>>>I would have to think twice before going online
>>>with it, for these reasons and others.

>Sharp thinking, but probably wasted:-

>a) if 'they' are really advanced the idea (in your brain) could
>be expected to be visible to them;

Ah!  Lets presume they can 'read minds' as in some advanced
technology that can see minuscule electrical impulses in the
brain, through the skull mind you, and from some reasonably safe
distance. Quite a trick.

I forget how many billions of brains there are to
read, lets presume they just look for UFO interested
parties .. some large minority maybe.

What would 'they' learn? Probably that there are as many
thoughts, theories and impressions as there are minds to
conceive them... including perceived patterns of UFO sightings.

It sounds like a logistic nightmare, and 'they' may well have
much more important things to do with their time resources.

If I were in their shoes (do they wear shoes?) I would search
the internet. Google might have some really interesting users if
this has any merit! Its child's play getting onto the net
anonymously. Bleep in a few keywords and see what pops up.

Given the swamp of ufo "information" if that's even the right
word, I would see such disarray of opinions and ideas that I
would take comfort that few if any UFO students are really on to
much of anything.

>b) all past experience indicates `they' don't want to
>communicate with Earth's "leaders" - rather the reverse;

Agreed.

>c) if you _wanted_ contact then demonstrating logic (and
>therefore non-resemblance to our "leaders") seems a good
>ploy.

I'm not expecting or hoping for contact personally, that seems
really unlikely to me. It would be inconsistent with their
behavior to date, and with any unbiased study of this planet and
its natural inhabitants.

Maybe in the distant future, their studies mostly completed, and
when we are ready for contact. They could soft-start a dialogue
by sending something for the SETI people to pick up on, then
slowly suggest that they or their probes are closer than some
might have guessed ..


Best wishes

- Larry H.







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                       Re: Excalibur Briefing - Burns

From: Chris Burns <Thurstonoreggae.nul>
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 19:32:40 EST
Fwd Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 14:09:37 -0500
Subject: Re: Excalibur Briefing - Burns


Dear Tim and list,

>From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 19:13:59 -0800
>ubject: Re: Excalibur Briefing


>>From: Chris Burns <Thurstonoreggae.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 12:24:27 EST
>>Subject: Excalibur Briefing

>>Finally got a copy of the book Excalibur Briefing by Thomas
>>Bearden, and before delving into it I went looking for
>>commentary and/or criticism of it, but found none.

>>I'd be interested on hearing from anyone familiar with the book
>>who might offer some comments about it.

>I seem to recall that it was filled with the kind of dense, yet
>somehow unverifiable balderdash typical of the sub-genre.
>Questions always remain begged. And the last twenty years
>nothing much has developed to illuminate his various statements.

>It's entertaining, though, if you like that kind of science
>paranoia stuff. Royal Rife, Nikola Tesla, Wilhelm Reich, Richie
>Rich, etc. It's not the worst way to kill a rainy afternoon.

Thanks for the comments.

I have been curious about this book for several reasons: first
it addresses the odd photos that I have found in both UFO
hotspot cases and alleged "hauntings".

I have had the privilege of getting to know some individuals who
have private collections of these type of photos that they have
produced from a specific area, and their stories along with the
photos have completely changed the way I look at the UFO
phenomenon.

Second, the book delves into the idea of "tulpas", which I
imagine is an extremely unpopular concept amongst ufologists,
but I admit is striking a chord with me. So I'll dig into the
book and see what I think.

For me I would at least pay attention to Thomas Bearden just on
the fact that he addresses the subject of these types of photos,
and discusses the images in the context of them representing a
manifestation of the UFO phenomenon which as far as I have seen
is totally on the mark.

Chris Burns







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   Feb > Feb 16

                         Re: Off-Season UFOs - Hatch

From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 16:44:10 -0800
Fwd Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 14:30:27 -0500
Subject: Re: Off-Season UFOs - Hatch


>From: Nick Pope <nick.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 11:10:46 -0000
>Subject: Re: Off-Season UFOs

>>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 14:36:53 -0800
>>Subject: Off-Season UFOs

<snip>

>>The question occurs, where are UFOs seem _between_ the major
>>waves?

>>To study this, I set up filters on my software to _exclude_ the
>>following months/years:

>>June-July 1947; Mar-Apr 1950; June-Sept 1952;
>>Sept-Nov. 1954; November 1957; August 1965;
>>March-April 1966; March 1967; July-Sept 1968;
>>Oct-Nov 1973.

>>I left the rest of the data in to study the remainder.

><snip>

>>I haven't done a fine analysis of the new data yet, but it might
>>be fun to compare and contrast those displays with the wave
>>years maps.

>>Maybe there are some discernible patterns to UFO sightings
>>locations "off-season" versus the busiest periods.

>Larry,

>Thanks for posting this. I know you'll be aware of some of these
>factors, but thought I'd share my views on some of the problems
>that arise when trying to do statistical analysis of UFO
>sightings.

>When running the UK Government's UFO project I asked a member of
>staff to do a study into the geographical spread of sightings. I
>gave her some outline maps of the UK and asked her to go through
>the files for the last three years, marking the locations. Here
>are some of the issues that arose:

>The Ministry of Defence didn't have a monopoly on the data. Some
>people reported to us, and there was a national reporting system
>that ensured we received reports sent to military bases, civil
>airports and police stations. But this reporting system had
>broken down in places, and some people were not aware that
>reports should have been forwarded. But in any case, we had no
>way of sweeping up reports that were sent to civilian UFO groups
>or researchers, or to the media. We would find out about some of
>these sightings, but by no means all.

Hello Nick:

Everyone trying to compile reports has to run into
this and similar. I simply collected reports from
all sources available to me, most in the public
domain, some from obscure sources. Here's a list
of many/most of those:

 http://www.larryhatch.net/USOURCE.html

A fairly lengthy file, it took almost 2 decades
to wade thru that.

>Many people who see UFOs don't report them at all, either
>because they fear ridicule or because they don't know where to
>send their reports. Again, this brought it home to us that we
>were plotting only a proportion of the overall sightings.

Yes! My sister's sighting in about 1950 is a case in point. A
golden sphere came right down this very street, possibly 1000
feet altitude. It came to a stop briefly, then almost instantly
shot back to the Northwest, from where it had came. Its not in
the literature, and the date is very approximate. I might have
been 5 years old at the time, in the opposite yard playing.

You will search the literature in vain for any reference to
this. There must be thousands if not millions of similarly
buried sightings. There isn't a damned thing I can do about it.

>A straightforward exercise to map UFO sighting reports takes no
>account of any analysis of the sightings. Ministry of Defence
>and USAF data told me that 95% of sightings were likely to be
>attributable to prosaic explanations, or involve situations
>where insufficient data existed to make a reliable assessment of
>what was seen. To give one example of how this can affect the
>data, we knew that a high proportion of UFO sightings were
>caused by misidentifications of aircraft or aircraft lights.
>Therefore, any meaningful analysis of the geographical spread of
>UFO sightings should take account of the location of
>flightpaths. There are many other things to factor in: the sites
>where weather balloons are launched, areas where airships fly,
>etc.

By 'straight-forward' I presume you mean uncritical. I work to
filter out the obvious junk, and derate seemingly questionable
accounts if I list them at all.

>The media can create a UFO wave. When a UFO story runs in a
>local newspaper, the article often ends with a request that
>other witnesses come forward. This creates a receptive
>environment for reports, and UFO witnesses who might otherwise
>have said nothing will feel more comfortable about speaking out,
>and will have an obvious outlet. There can be a domino effect
>here; a local newspaper might run a story and ask for other
>witnesses to get in touch; local radio or television may then
>pick up the story and make a similar request. Finally, even
>national newspapers or television channels may run the story.
>Before you know it, you have the next Warminster or Bonnybridge
>on your hands. Are such places really UFO hotspots, or are they
>just areas that have been portrayed as such? Once an area gets a
>reputation as a hotspot, ufologists go on skywatches there, and
>may direct reporters and documentary makers to these areas as
>opposed to others. Things are seen in these locations because
>this is where people are looking. It becomes a self-fulfilling
>prophesy.

Yes indeed! The self-created wave. Good reports that would have
been lost surface, but this skews the numbers. And of course the
me-too types and bandwagon hoppers jump in with all sorts of
bogus stuff.

That's one of the main reasons I made these 'off-season' maps.
Hopefully, media-generated effects are much reduced.

 http://www.larryhatch.net/NWMNAM.html
 http://www.larryhatch.net/NWMSAM.html
 http://www.larryhatch.net/NWMEUR.html

>This point about the media is also important to bear in mind
>when looking at apparent peaks in UFO sightings at a particular
>time, as well as in a particular location. Media interest in a
>UFO story is likely to be short-lived, but the receptive
>environment for sighting reports that exists while the media
>spotlight is on can skew the figures for anyone trying to plot
>whether there are more sightings at a particular time of year.

>UFO researchers can create UFO waves. A proactive researcher
>will smoke out reports that might otherwise not come to light,
>and act as a 'lightning conductor' for such data. In much the
>same way as applies in the point about the media, an apparent
>hotspot does not necessarily mean there are more sightings in a
>particular area. It may simply be that a more receptive
>environment has been created for people to make reports, and a
>higher proportion of UFO sightings will be reported in this area
>as opposed to another.

I think that's what happened in NE Utah in the 1960s-70s when
Biologist Frank Salisbury went cataloging sightings there. Look
at the blob of sightings just below the SW corner of Wyoming on
this map.

http://www.larryhatch.net/WESTUSA.html

The sightings density is _way_ out of proportion to the small
population. The whits blob of events shown outweighs metro Salt
Lake City, Las Vegas, Phoenix, Tucson, even Portland Oregon.

And... that's about 98% all from one single book by Salisbury.
It makes me wonder what else is lurking, unstudied,
unpublished...

>We need to factor in data on population density. If more UFOs
>are seen in a particular area, might it not reflect the fact
>that there are more people there to see them? Indeed, the
>results of my MOD study produced maps that seemed to reflect
>this very point. More UFO reports came from in and around London
>than from anywhere else, and there were similar clusters around
>major conurbations.

I have a routine in the database software that ranks states, the
DC, and Canadian provinces/territories by raw sightings counts,
same over population, and same over area. This isn't on my
website yet, stay tuned.

On the same map above, compare Arizona to New Mexico. Areas are
about the same (NM slightly larger than AZ) but AZ has less than
one quarter the filtered sightings counts per 1000 population as
New Mexico.

I don't see any obvious demographic reason for this.

>There's an issue regarding how to score multiple witness
>sightings. Do we treat a UFO seen by a family of four as one
>report or four? What about sightings in broadly the same
>location at broadly the same time, but by witnesses not in
>precisely the same location?

Trying to avoid "numbers inflation", I give one listing to each
event (with rare exceptions) regardless if there was one witness
or a score of them. Sometimes I will discover two listings
(different sources usually) for the same event. If/when I do, I
combine them into one record noting both sources.

If two sets of witnesses are removed by a few miles, I give them
two listings, even though the original stimulus or craft may be
identical. This might suggest a trajectory if the times of day
are close enough. It might also suggest a mundane explanation.

>I no longer have access to the Ministry of Defence's UFO files,
>and I'm doing this from memory, so I may have missed out some
>important issues. But I hope this has at least highlighted some
>of the difficulties we faced when trying to do statistical
>analysis of UFO data. I'm sure ufologists ran into exactly the
>same problems, and I'd be interested in people's thoughts on
>this.

>Best wishes,

> Nick Pope

I have no special access to official records like
these. They offer important pieces to the puzzle.
Its important to get them out where I and others can
study them.


Best wishes

- Larry Hatch








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   Feb > Feb 16

                     Re: 1956 Lunar Path Light - Fleming

From: Lan Fleming <lfleming5.nul>
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 19:21:42 -0600
Fwd Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 14:45:50 -0500
Subject: Re: 1956 Lunar Path Light - Fleming


>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
>To: UFO Updates <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 17:06:32 -0500
>Subject: Re: 1956 Lunar Path Light

<snip>

>If the arc was actually moving, as claimed, then it would seem
>to be anomalous. The angular length is 0.0005-0.0006 radians
>approx. (very quick estimate... might be wrong!).

I think that we also need to keep in mind that the "object" (if
there was one) could be smaller than the telescope's resolution;
point sources such as stars viewed without a telescope will
appear larger the brighter they are.







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                         HBCC UFO Reports - 02-15-04

From: HBCC UFO <hbccufo.nul>
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 23:08:17 -0800
Fwd Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 14:54:54 -0500
Subject: HBCC UFO Reports - 02-15-04



Hi List

Here are just a few reports I have received over the last short
while. More are sitting here and have been posted to my site.

---

Miworth, British Columbia

Report Received: February 8, 2004
Date: August 1970
Time: approx: 12:15 a.m.

A woman called from Prince George, British Columbia to report a
strange experience which took place at Miworth (a small area
here in northern B.C. outside of the Prince George District).
The lady said she was with six friends sport fishing. After the
day on the lake came to an end, they finished their supper and
everyone sat around laughing and discussing the days events.
Night had fallen and suddenly from out of nowhere a light lit up
the camp area from above. The lady estimated that approximately
100 yards around them was covered in a soft, extremely bright
white light. The trees, the edge of the lake, the trucks, and
trailers were aglow. They all felt there was an object of some
type sitting stationary above them, but no one could see
anything due to the intensity of the light. They heard no sound,
saw no object of any kind. A couple in the group thought at
first it may have been a helicopter, but they soon ruled that
out as there would have been a great deal of noise.

The woman said they all experienced something but weren't
exactly sure what....?

Each questioning the other saying, "what was that"? Before the
people started talking and asking about it, the lady said it
seemed if everyone was frozen in place and once everyone was
aware that something took place, they all started complaining of
feeling very cold. She said "I watched everyone looking up at
it, whatever it was". They also all experienced an electrical,
tingling feeling surging through their bodies.

It wasn't long after their weird experience that the people said
their good nights and went to bed. They had planned to spend
another day at the lake but decided to leave the next day and go
home. They were frightened and didn't want to be there if the
same thing happened again.

There were no other reports of any more problems that the lady
is aware of happening to anyone else.

I thank her for her report.

-----

Laidlaw, British Columbia

Report Received: February 13, 2004
Date: June 1966
Time: approx: 11:25 p.m.

A fellow called to tell me of a sighting he had when he was in
his early teens. He recalls the account very clearly. The man
said there were roughly twenty family members who, at a reunion
at a home in Laidlaw, British Columbia, had a campfire and folks
were roasting up some wieners. One of the younger children there
yelled out loudly for everyone to look over towards one of the
local mountains.

Everyone looked to where the child was pointing and saw a large
object sitting stationary over top of the mountain. It sat there
for a brief time and then started to move along the mountain
rim, stopped and returned to where it had come from. Then it
moved towards the family (still a distance away) then back again
to it's original position. The witness reported the color was a
salmon/peach. He said the shape of the object was definitely
circular. They all watched it for approximately 15 minutes and
finally it moved off behind the mountain.

Everyone was surprised to say the least and one of the adults
ran into call the airport to report and to enquire if anyone
else was reporting this massive object. The first thing the
tower operator explained was that they did not use balloons
anymore because they had radar. The man in the tower was
laughing! But he did finally say there was no aircraft in the
area where the object had been seen. Also nothing was showing up
on his radar.

The witness said there were others who had also observed this
strange object as reports were filed with the RCMP and the local
newspaper at that time.

Thank you to the witness for the report.

-----


Endako, British Columbia

Received Report: February 13, 2004
Date: Late Fall 1989
Time: 6:45 p.m.

A husband and wife were driving from Endako back to Prince
George, British Columbia where they lived. It was early evening
and already dark out, they were approximately 8 kilometers east
from Endako when the wife pointed out an unusual object which
was flying low and parallel to their vehicle along Highway #16.
The husband then slowed the vehicle down so he could get a
better look at it. He told me the object, whatever it was, made
some quick moments, away from them and back again, also jerking
forward and slowing down almost as if it was pacing the car. The
object was reported to have changed color a number of times,
from a pale green, to red and then blue. There were no flashing
lights on the object and the witnesses could not make out its
shape due to the darkness of the night.

The witnesses claim the object stayed with them for a number of
miles until they got to a bridge which crosses the Stellako
River which is west from Fraser Lake, British Columbia.  When
the driver and passenger changed direction in their vehicle they
lost sight of the object as it seemed to continue on its flight
path straight east ward.

The couple did pull over to the side of the road to see if they
might be able to get a better look, but when they got out of the
car the object had disappeared.

Thank you to the witness for the report.

--------

Report Received: February 8, 2004
Fort St. James - Along Highway #16
Date: Fall -1991
Time: approx: 10:45 p.m.

A couple were driving home to Prince George after a day's outing
in Fort St. James. As they traveled along Highway # 16 east and
passed a well known tourist spot called Bednesti Lake, the
passenger, the husband's wife, commented to her husband about
where a light was coming from? A white light seemed to be
reflecting off the hood of their car. When she first took notice
of the light it wasn't all that bright, but what got her
wondering was they were traveling in a totally darkened out area
along the highway. As they drove along the light grew brighter
and brighter. It was engulfing the vehicle. The husband started
slowing down because the bright light was actually making it
difficult to continue. The passenger got up the nerve to lean
forward and look out and up to see where the light source was
coming from. All the lady was able to see was a beam of light,
or just a brightenss which had engulfed the whole vehicle at
this point. She said it was blinding to her eyes and it stayed
right with them.

The witness said whatever it was followed them for a number of
kilometers down the highway. Finally, because it was exceedingly
difficult to see where they were headed, the husband pulled the
car over to the side of the road, got out and as soon as he did
the light went out. They did not hear any sound at all. They
even thought it was a helicopter when it first appeared, but got
very frightened as it paced with them for so long.

When the couple finally arrived home safely, they got up the
next morning, the wife turned on the radio and while listening
in she heard a news story about a man who called the radio
station to report seeing an unusual beam of light shining down
onto the highway the night before. Of course, the man who had
made the report had no idea what the couple had experienced.

This incident happened a number of years ago, but it was still
very fresh in the ladies mind when she was telling me the story.
The woman mentioned it was very overcast that evening. Even when
the passenger looked up through the front windshield the light
was so bright it was to hard to see anything. It was extremely
difficult to know if there was a craft of some sort above them,
if it was below or above the cloud ceiling. I was told it must
have been a narrow beam as it did not light up much of the
surrounding area, but mainly lit up the outside, and inside of
the car.

I would like to thank the people for their report.



--------



Received: February 13, 2004

Calgary, Alberta

Date: February 12, 2004
Time: 7:30 p.m.

Something to add to your list, last evening around 19:30 my wife
and I were out walking. In the eastern sky there appeared to be
a very bright satellite. It appeared to be moving north easterly
somewhere close to or above the foothills. I commented that it
seemed to be moving far to fast for a satellite and my wife said
that maybe it was a plane. Didn't think much more of it until
1/2 hour later as I was walking my daughter to a friend's house
and there it was again except is was further south in the sky
parallel to Calgary but moving a little slower. It moved a few
kilometers and then seemed to move almost instantly about 50
kilometers closer but still over the foothills to the west. When
I got home I got my binoculars and took a closer look. The
object appeared somewhat round with lights along the top (very
bright) a band and then an additional number of less luminous
lights on the bottom. It well may have been jets as I noticed
the snowbirds in Calgary earlier in the day but there it is for
your information.

Kindest Regards,

Thank you to the witness for the report.

Brian Vike, Director
HBCC UFO Research
Canadian Toll Free UFO Hotline 1 866 262 1989 - Free call.
Home - Phone 1 250 845 2189
email: hbccufo.nul
Website: http://www.hbccufo.com







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   Feb > Feb 16

                   Team Locates Farthest Galaxy From Earth

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 06:14:47 -0800
Fwd Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 14:55:57 -0500
Subject: Team Locates Farthest Galaxy From Earth


Source: Los Angeles Times

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-briefs16.1feb16,1,7347139.s
tory?coll=la-headlines-nation

February 16, 2004


Team Locates Farthest Galaxy from Earth

In a discovery that offers a rare glimpse back to when the
universe was just 750 million years old, a team of
astrophysicists said they have detected a tiny galaxy that is
the farthest known object from Earth.

The team, including a California Institute of Technology
astronomer, uncovered the galaxy, roughly 13 billion light-years
from Earth, using the Hubble Space Telescope and telescopes atop
Mauna Kea in Hawaii.










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                         Re: Off-Season UFOs - Pope

From: Nick Pope <nick.nul>
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 18:56:03 -0000
Fwd Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 14:57:35 -0500
Subject: Re: Off-Season UFOs - Pope


>From: Amy Hebert <vanguard.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 17:19:27 -0600
>Subject: Re: Off-Season UFOs

>>From: Nick Pope <nick.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 11:10:46 -0000
>>Subject: Re: Off-Season UFOs

>>When running the UK Government's UFO project I asked a member of
>>staff to do a study into the geographical spread of sightings. I
>>gave her some outline maps of the UK and asked her to go through
>>the files for the last three years, marking the locations. Here
>>are some of the issues that arose:

><snip>

>I'm wondering how the information yielded from your study could be
>turned around and used to disguise tests of secret military projects
>and/or psychological responses to unknown/novel stimuli.

This is not a question on which it would be appropriate for me
to comment, beyond a general observation that prototype aircraft
or UAVs are generally test flown in clearly defined areas set
aside for this purpose. I can't say any more than this, but was
not in any case briefed on any such projects, because I had no
'need to know'. I'm afraid I've snipped out most of the rest of
your post, as the questions followed from your point above. I
apologise.

<snip>

>>I no longer have access to the Ministry of Defence's UFO files,
>>and I'm doing this from memory, so I may have missed out some
>>important issues. But I hope this has at least highlighted some
>>of the difficulties we faced when trying to do statistical
>>analysis of UFO data. I'm sure ufologists ran into exactly the
>>same problems, and I'd be interested in people's thoughts on
>>this.

>Thank you, Nick.

>I was wondering...were you asked by your superiors to do this study or
>was it just for your own personal information? Did you share the
>results of your study with the MOD, file it - what happened to the
>study?

I undertook this project on my own initiative, but it was wholly
consistent with my brief. We received several hundred reports of
UFO sightings each year, and my research into the geographical
spread of sightings complemented my investigative work. This is
something I did around ten years ago now, so I can't be sure of
the details, but I probably briefed my line manager and side
copied the maps to colleagues in the Directorate of Air Defence
and the Defence Intelligence Staff. All this work was
unclassified, and in line with an initiative on Open Government
I released the maps to various UFO organisations and
researchers, both proactively and on demand. I think they've
been published in various books and magazines, and may be on the
internet somewhere. Perhaps some of the UK ufologists to whom I
released this material can help on this?


Best wishes,

Nick Pope






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             Re: Team Locates Farthest Galaxy From Earth - Boone

From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 15:12:32 EST
Fwd Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 16:13:50 -0500
Subject: Re: Team Locates Farthest Galaxy From Earth - Boone


>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 06:14:47 -0800
>Subject: Team Locates Farthest Galaxy From Earth

>Source: Los Angeles Times

>http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na->briefs16.1feb16,1,7347139
.story?coll=la-headlines-nation

>February 16, 2004


>Team Locates Farthest Galaxy from Earth

>In a discovery that offers a rare glimpse back to when the
>universe was just 750 million years old, a team of
>astrophysicists said they have detected a tiny galaxy that is
>the farthest known object from Earth.

>The team, including a California Institute of Technology
>astronomer, uncovered the galaxy, roughly 13 billion light-years
>from Earth, using the Hubble Space Telescope and telescopes atop
>Mauna Kea in Hawaii.


Thanks Frank Warren.

What gets me is we can see that far but can't give us definitive
answers as to whether there are planets around our closest
neighbor Alpha Centauri or whether there are planets around the
Zeta Reticuli system.

Oooo the frustration.....

Best,

Greg







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                    Re: 1956 Lunar Path Light - Balaskas

From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul>
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 15:24:37 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
Fwd Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 16:15:06 -0500
Subject: Re: 1956 Lunar Path Light - Balaskas


>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 18:02:09 -0500
>Subject: Re: 1956 Lunar Path Light

>>From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 14:24:02 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
>>Subject: Re: 1956 Lunar Path Light - Balaskas

<snip>

>>One additional comment, if the UFO in the Apollo 16 images that
>>were written about recently in the 'Journal for Scientific
>>Exploration' and which ufologist Grant Cameron is currently
>>studying turn out to be of a real massive object as is
>>suspected, this UFO would be about as big as the bright object
>>in this 1956 picture of the Moon.

>Is there any way non-members of Sturrock's organization can
>access that Apollo 16-related report?


Hi Ray!

The Society for Scientific Exploration (Dr. Peter Sturrock is a
member of its Editorial Board) has published very many important
UFO research papers in its peer reviewed 'Journal of Scientific
Exploration'. This paper about what seems to be a large UFO in
the immediate vicinity of the Moon that was photographed from
Apollo 16 is just one of these.

As an Associate Member of SSE, I have a subscription to their
journal and have many back issues. Back issues can be purchased
individually too. The issue with the article you are interested
in ('Video Analysis of an Anomalous Image Filmed during Apollo
16') is found in Vol. 17, No. 3, pp. 409-433, 2003. If you
cannot get this issue of JSE through the inter-library loan
system, you should be able to get a complete reprint (including
the amazing images of an object which looks very much like a
classic flying saucer) from the author. His name and mailing
address are:

Hiroshi Nakamura

Takaramachi 1-3-2,
Katsushika-ku,
Tokyo 124-0005,
Japan

It is interesting to note that the author acknowledged the help
of several people, including our Dr. Bruce Maccabee "for his apt
criticism in revising the manuscript".

An abstract of this paper can be found at the web site below.

http://www.scientificexploration.org/jse/abstracts/v17n3a2.html

Should you not be able to get this article through your library
or the author, I would be happy to send you a photocopy of this
paper provided for research purposes and give credit to JSE and
the paper's author. Don't forget to give me an address where I
can mail these photocopies to you.


Nick Balaskas








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                       Re: Excalibur Briefing - White

From: Eleanor White <eleanor.nul>
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 16:25:11 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 16:55:53 -0500
Subject: Re: Excalibur Briefing - White


>From: Chris Burns <Thurstonoreggae.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 19:32:40 EST
>Subject: Re: Excalibur Briefing

<snip>

>For me I would at least pay attention to Thomas Bearden just on
>the fact that he addresses the subject of these types of photos,
>and discusses the images in the context of them representing a
>manifestation of the UFO phenomenon which as far as I have seen
>is totally on the mark.


I'd like to add that, for us "mind control" targets, Tom Bearden
gains credibility in our eyes from the fact that he has
undergone invasive high-tech harassment and threats, as we have.
As I see it, he must be doing something right.


Eleanor White







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             Re: Team Locates Farthest Galaxy From Earth - Shell

From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 15:35:57 -0600
Fwd Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 16:57:22 -0500
Subject: Re: Team Locates Farthest Galaxy From Earth - Shell


>From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
>Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 15:12:32 EST
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Subject: Re: Team Locates Farthest Galaxy From Earth

>>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 06:14:47 -0800
>>Subject: Team Locates Farthest Galaxy From Earth

>>Source: Los Angeles Times

>>http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na->briefs16.1feb16,1,734713
9.story?coll=la-headlines-nation

>What gets me is we can see that far but can't give us
>definitive answers as to whether there are planets around our
>closest neighbor Alpha Centauri or whether there are planets
>around the Zeta Reticuli system.

I bet Proxima Centauri has five small rocky planets around it
and one gas giant, and Zeta Reticuli has six, including two gas
giants.

When is somebody going to launch a deep space probe - hi-res
camera and radio, that's all we need - in that direction
(Centauri System)? We have a good ion drive cooked up. Sure,
it'll take a little while to get there, but we could probably
start getting good data when it's only halfway there. We would
probably build faster ships that would catch up with it, but we
gotta start sometime. And we could pick up the older ships as we
go.

I'm all for it. And terraforming Venus, too, with some
genetically modified bacteria that will float in the atmosphere
and burn the CO2 into Nitrogen and H20. No time like the present
to start!







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                       Re: Excalibur Briefing - Harney

From: John Harney <magonia.nul>
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 21:45:18 -0000
Fwd Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 16:59:50 -0500
Subject: Re: Excalibur Briefing - Harney


>From: Chris Burns <Thurstonoreggae.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 19:32:40 EST
>Subject: Re: Excalibur Briefing

<snip>

>For me I would at least pay attention to Thomas Bearden just on
>the fact that he addresses the subject of these types of photos,
>and discusses the images in the context of them representing a
>manifestation of the UFO phenomenon which as far as I have seen
>is totally on the mark.

I haven't read Excalibur Briefing myself, so I can't comment.

However, there is an interesting short article by Martin
Kottmeyer, titled "Do UFO flaps express cold war
kundalini?",which comments on this and some of Bearden's other
writings. It was published in Magonia Supplement No. 47, which
is available at:

http://www.magonia.demon.co.uk/arc/00/ms47.htm


John Harney





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               Klass' Papers At American Philosophical Society

From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 22:01:25 +0000
Fwd Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 17:31:41 -0500
Subject: Klass' Papers At American Philosophical Society


During a surfing session on the internet today I discovered that
Phil Klass's UFO papers have been donated to the American
Philosophical Society. I didn't study the listing thoroughly,
but two things stood out at first glance:

(1) The 1965 Heflin photograph, pictured there, was dismissed by
him as fraudulent in a caption, on what basis I would be very
interested to learn. No doubt because it _couldn't_ be
legitimate because real UFOs don't exist.

(2) His correspondence related to UFOs does not include my very
extensive correspondence with him, nor that of Bruce Maccabee's
very extensive correspondence with him. Hmmm! I wonder why?
Could it be that those letters might prove to be embarassing to
him?


 - Dick Hall










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                       Re: Off-Season UFOs - Dickenson

From: Ray Dickenson <editor.nul>
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 22:07:34 +0000
Fwd Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 17:35:56 -0500
Subject: Re: Off-Season UFOs - Dickenson


>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 15:44:15 -0800
>Subject: Re: Off-Season UFOs

>Ah! Lets presume they can 'read minds' as in some advanced
>technology that can see minuscule electrical impulses in the
>brain, through the skull mind you, and from some reasonably
>safe distance. Quite a trick.

>If I were in their shoes (do they wear shoes?) I would search
>the internet. Google might have some really interesting users
>if this has any merit! Its child's play getting onto the net
>anonymously. Bleep in a few keywords and see what pops up.

>I'm not expecting or hoping for contact personally, that
>seems really unlikely to me. It would be inconsistent with
>their behavior to date, and with any unbiased study of this
>planet and its natural inhabitants.

Larry, your logic, as always, is impeccable, but I'm still
uneasy about our tactical assumptions and our (single) strategy.


Situation

- several types of 'visitors' have been here for quite a while
and choose to show themselves in tantalizing and confusing
glimpses that follow no general pattern (except contradictory
ones?).


Tactics

- our tactical assumption of 'sensible' technology. We're facing
a mixed bag of possible friends/foes almost certainly
years/generations/millennia ahead of us (statistical
probabilities). We surely daren't assume any limit on the
technology available to them - no matter how 'magical'.

Here's quote from two sharp thinkers:


"An advanced technology (say a million years old, or five
hundred million, compared to the two hundred year history of
'advanced' human technology) will be able to make, distribute,
and hide artifacts that we cannot begin to imagine."

--Professors Jack Cohen & Ian Stewart "Evolving the Alien"
ISBN 0-09-187927-2


So I'm uneasy about our tactics - it's like a naked savage
deciding to punch-out an armored brigade _and_ a regiment of
hypnotists.


Strategy

- the only strategy we (our leaders) seem to have is: Compete or
capitulate!

That's what _we'd_ expect of a primitive animal. And that's what
we're demonstrating (and broadcasting) for all to see and hear.
"Exploitative consumerism - red in tooth and claw" - whether
it's called capitalism, communism, facism or any other political
"ism".

I'm tempted to forecast useful contact for some who can
demonstrate and broadcast logic/empathy/altruism (quite a
package) to the _really_ advanced ones. Maybe it's already
happening - neither parties are likely to tell CNN.


Sting-in-tail

Of course, that might not help those in Puerto Rico or S.
America who seem to be hosting visitors (or their pets) almost
as primitive and bloodthirsty as our leaders.


Best regards

Ray D

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Perceptions" http://www.perceptions.couk.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~






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                        Re: Excalibur Briefing - Hall

From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 22:11:23 +0000
Fwd Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 17:37:40 -0500
Subject: Re: Excalibur Briefing - Hall


>From: Eleanor White <eleanor.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 16:25:11 -0500
>Subject: Re: Excalibur Briefing

>>From: Chris Burns <Thurstonoreggae.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 19:32:40 EST
>>Subject: Re: Excalibur Briefing

>>For me I would at least pay attention to Thomas Bearden just on
>>the fact that he addresses the subject of these types of photos,
>>and discusses the images in the context of them representing a
>>manifestation of the UFO phenomenon which as far as I have seen
>>is totally on the mark.

>I'd like to add that, for us "mind control" targets, Tom Bearden
>gains credibility in our eyes from the fact that he has
>undergone invasive high-tech harassment and threats, as we have.
>As I see it, he must be doing something right.


Eleanor,

What exactly are "invasive high-tech harassment and threats,"
and how do you know that Bearden claims to have undergone them.
Has he said so anywhere available for inspection?

I have sort of followed this thread, though not thoroughly
because it all sounds very strained to me and not clearly
grounded in real experience -a s opposed to paranoid imaginings.

The speculations that someone (a) has the technology and (b) the
time, resources, and personnel to follow individuals around
sounds pretty far-fetched to me. Certainly not the U.S.
Government. And Greg Boone hints at some other monolithic, all-
 powerful group without specifying it.

What exactly are we talking about here? Let's speak out clearly
on what you think is going on and the reasons why you think so.
Mutterings and insinuations and suspicions without documented
facts are worthless.


 - Dick








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                      Re: 1956 Lunar Path Light - Velez

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 17:11:45 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 17:38:55 -0500
Subject: Re: 1956 Lunar Path Light - Velez


>From: Lan Fleming <lfleming5.nul>
>To: UFO Updates <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 19:21:42 -0600
>Subject: Re: 1956 Lunar Path Light

>>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
>>To: UFO Updates <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 17:06:32 -0500
>>Subject: Re: 1956 Lunar Path Light

><snip>

>>If the arc was actually moving, as claimed, then it would seem
>>to be anomalous. The angular length is 0.0005-0.0006 radians
>>approx. (very quick estimate... might be wrong!).

>I think that we also need to keep in mind that the "object" (if
>there was one) could be smaller than the telescope's resolution;
>point sources such as stars viewed without a telescope will
>appear larger the brighter they are.

Hi Lan, All,

Has anyone mentioned the possibility that the bright object in
the photograph may be 'intra-atmospheric' and nowhere near the
surface of the moon at all? Bruce already made mention that even
rough calculations based on 'apparent' size, (assuming the
object is on the moon) puts the size at 'around' 100 miles in
diameter. Whatever the phenomena is, it would rapidly assume
more plausible dimensions if it was within the atmosphere when
photographed.

Based on size alone, if the object/phenomena was close to the
moon, some unknown astronomical phenomena seems likely to be
responsible. That is, unless ET can built craft that is 100
miles in diameter. If the phenom is located inside the
atmosphere then we're looking at a whole other set of problems
in terms of making any identification.

Just a thought.


Regards,

John Velez







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                        Re: Excalibur Briefing - Hall

From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 22:14:20 +0000
Fwd Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 17:39:57 -0500
Subject: Re: Excalibur Briefing - Hall


>From: John Harney <magonia.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 21:45:18 -0000
>Subject: Re: Excalibur Briefing

>>From: Chris Burns <Thurstonoreggae.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 19:32:40 EST
>>Subject: Re: Excalibur Briefing

>>For me I would at least pay attention to Thomas Bearden just on
>>the fact that he addresses the subject of these types of photos,
>>and discusses the images in the context of them representing a
>>manifestation of the UFO phenomenon which as far as I have seen
>>is totally on the mark.

>I haven't read Excalibur Briefing myself, so I can't comment.

>However, there is an interesting short article by Martin
>Kottmeyer, titled "Do UFO flaps express cold war
>kundalini?",which comments on this and some of Bearden's other
>writings. It was published in Magonia Supplement No. 47, which
>is available at:

>John Harney

John,

Now, this is really funny. Kottmeyer/kundalini vs. Bearden/weird
science. A pox on both your houses.


 - Dick









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                 Re: Klass' Papers At American Philosophical

From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg.nul>
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 17:17:15 -0600
Fwd Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 07:23:58 -0500
Subject: Re: Klass' Papers At American Philosophical


>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 22:01:25 +0000
>Subject: Klass' Papers At American Philosophical Society

>During a surfing session on the internet today I discovered that
>Phil Klass's UFO papers have been donated to the American
>Philosophical Society. I didn't study the listing thoroughly,
>but two things stood out at first glance:

>(1) The 1965 Heflin photograph, pictured there, was dismissed by
>him as fraudulent in a caption, on what basis I would be very
>interested to learn. No doubt because it _couldn't_ be
>legitimate because real UFOs don't exist.

>(2) His correspondence related to UFOs does not include my very
>extensive correspondence with him, nor that of Bruce Maccabee's
>very extensive correspondence with him. Hmmm! I wonder why?
>Could it be that those letters might prove to be embarassing to
>him?


Well - in as much as the doddering old misanthrope is the
ufological darling of the mainstream, we're not likely to find
out (in the aggregate), are we?  Perhaps we could read them
here... Mr. Hall? Dr. Maccabee?


Lehmberg.nul
www.AlienView.net

Photo Album: http://www.alienview.net/AVAlbum.htm
(send picture as attachment to Lehmberg.nul)
Splash page:   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AlienViewGroup/
Radio Show & Splash Page:  http://www.alienview.net/alienviews.htm
Radio Show Archives: Out of Service at this time...









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                       Re: Excalibur Briefing - White

From: Eleanor White <eleanor.nul>
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 18:24:17 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 07:25:45 -0500
Subject: Re: Excalibur Briefing - White


>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 22:11:23 +0000
>Subject: Re: Excalibur Briefing

<snip>

>Eleanor,

>What exactly are "invasive high-tech harassment and threats,"
>and how do you know that Bearden claims to have undergone them.
>Has he said so anywhere available for inspection?

I can't quote him verbatim - I heard him describe physical
symptoms and threats on a talk show interview which happened at
some point within the past 3 years. He stated that what brought
it on was when he decided to develop advanced energy systems.

I don't have time to scan his

http://www.cheniere.org

site for written confirmation, but I have a feeling someone who
did would find this confirmed there.

>I have sort of followed this thread, though not thoroughly
>because it all sounds very strained to me and not clearly
>grounded in real experience -a s opposed to paranoid imaginings.

It ceases to be 'paranoid' once it starts happening. You are fortunate
it hasn't happened to you.

>The speculations that someone (a) has the technology and (b) the
>time, resources, and personnel to follow individuals around
>sounds pretty far-fetched to me. Certainly not the U.S.
>Government.

We are unable to identify the source, but some entity does have,
and use, such time, resources, and personnel. I have a number of
examples of their sabotage available for inspection. The massive
sabotage at my former place of work was witnessed by many with
the expertise to know very well it was sabotage. Plenty of
physical evidence. Management chose to ignore it.

>And Greg Boone hints at some other monolithic, all-
>powerful group without specifying it.

Such a group or groups exist - that much is true.

>What exactly are we talking about here? Let's speak out clearly
>on what you think is going on and the reasons why you think so.
>Mutterings and insinuations and suspicions without documented
>facts are worthless.

The sophisticated criminals carrying out these crimes, (and in
my view, the UFO cover up crimes too) put a great deal of effort
into planning them so they leave no credible evidence.

If we had documented evidence, we would have been able to stop
these crimes long ago. But that doesn't mean what I'm talking
about here are mere 'suspcions'. There has been physical
evidence on a par with UFO traces.


Eleanor White








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                        Re: Off-Season UFOs - Chapman

From: Mary Chapman <alfie107.nul>
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 15:26:46 -0800
Fwd Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 07:29:09 -0500
Subject: Re: Off-Season UFOs - Chapman


>From: Ray Dickenson <editor.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>,
>Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 22:07:34 +0000
>Subject: Re: Off-Season UFOs


Ray and List,

Wow, powerful observations here!Your reasonings are quite astute
IMHO!

>Larry, your logic, as always, is impeccable, but I'm still
>uneasy about our tactical assumptions and our (single) strategy.

>Situation

>- several types of 'visitors' have been here for quite a while
>and choose to show themselves in tantalizing and confusing
>glimpses that follow no general pattern (except contradictory
>ones?).

The motives thereof known only to the Prime Directive(s),
perhaps?And of which we, in our current state of awareness,
wouldn't be able to comprehend even if we_did_know the motives,
mission, or plans.

>Tactics

>- our tactical assumption of 'sensible' technology. We're facing
>a mixed bag of possible friends/foes almost certainly
>years/generations/millennia ahead of us (statistical
>probabilities). We surely daren't assume any limit on the
>technology available to them - no matter how 'magical'.

>Here's quote from two sharp thinkers:

>"An advanced technology (say a million years old, or five
>hundred million, compared to the two hundred year history of
>'advanced' human technology) will be able to make, distribute,
>and hide artifacts that we cannot begin to imagine."

>--Professors Jack Cohen & Ian Stewart "Evolving the Alien"
>ISBN 0-09-187927-2

>So I'm uneasy about our tactics - it's like a naked savage
>deciding to punch-out an armored brigade _and_ a regiment of
>hypnotists.

Another example would be: Our doggie Rover trying to discern
"who or what is that white-coat (Vet) who is probing me and
shooting me with a needle?I resent his actions, and I KNOW he is
up to no good!"There is little we as a human could do
to_explain_to Rover that he is being *cared for* or *examined*
for his own good, is there?Please note: I am not suggesting that
what the Abductors are reportedly doing to the Abductees
is_good_for them.I'm merely using an example of how two
different species with differences in comprehension and
communication capabilities cannot get on the same page.


>Strategy

>- the only strategy we (our leaders) seem to have is: Compete or
>capitulate!

>That's what _we'd_ expect of a primitive animal. And that's what
>we're demonstrating (and broadcasting) for all to see and hear.
>"Exploitative consumerism - red in tooth and claw" - whether
>it's called capitalism, communism, facism or any other political
>"ism".

>I'm tempted to forecast useful contact for some who can
>demonstrate and broadcast logic/empathy/altruism (quite a
>package) to the _really_ advanced ones. Maybe it's already
>happening - neither parties are likely to tell CNN.

Exactly! It's almost an oxymoron!

>Sting-in-tail

>Of course, that might not help those in Puerto Rico or S.
>America who seem to be hosting visitors (or their pets) almost
>as primitive and bloodthirsty as our leaders.

I have copied and pasted an article that I think is very
interesting here.

It concerns Hyper-Communications, which in my opinion may be the
answer to_how_we eventually will communicate properly with ET,
and possibly how evolution has been influenced and/or has been a
process of intervention by Super- Intelligences as some have
speculated.


Regards,

Mary Chapman

-----

RUSSIAN DNA DISCOVERIES
Summarized by Baerbel

* Edited and translated

Esoteric and spiritual teachers have known for ages that our
body is programmable by language, words and thought. This has
now been scientifically proven and explained.


The human DNA is a biological Internet and superior in many
aspects to the artificial one. The latest Russian scientific
research directly or indirectly explains phenomena such as
clairvoyance, intuition, spontaneous and remote acts of healing,
self healing, affirmation techniques, unusual light/auras around
people (namely spiritual masters), mind's influence on weather
patterns and much more.

In addition, there is evidence for a whole new type of medicine
in which DNA can be influenced and reprogrammed by words and
frequencies WITHOUT cutting out and replacing single genes. Only
10% of our DNA is being used for building proteins. It is this
subset of DNA that is of interest to western researchers and is
being examined and categorized. The other 90% are considered
"junk DNA."

The Russian researchers, however, convinced that nature was not
dumb, joined linguists and geneticists in a venture to explore
that 90% of "junk DNA." Their results, findings and conclusions
are simply revolutionary!

According to there findings, our DNA is not only responsible for
the construction of our body but also serves as data storage and
communication. The Russian linguists found that the genetic code
- especially in the apparent "useless" 90% - follows the same
rules as all our human languages.

To this end they compared the rules of syntax (the way in which
words are put together to form phrases and sentences), semantics
(the study of meaning in language forms) and the basic rules of
grammar. They found that the alkalines of our DNA follow a
regular grammar and do have set rules just like our languages.
Therefore, human languages did not appear coincidentally but are
a reflection of our inherent DNA.

The Russian biophysicist and molecular biologist Pjotr Garjajev
and his colleagues also explored the vibrational behavior of
DNA. In brief the bottom line was: "Living chromosomes function
just like a holographic computer using endogenous DNA laser
radiation." This means that they managed, for example, to
modulate certain frequency patterns (sound) onto a laser-like
ray which influenced DNA frequency and thus the genetic
information itself.

Since the basic structure of DNA-alkaline pairs and of language
(as explained earlier) is of the same structure, no DNA decoding
is necessary. One can simply use words and sentences of the
human language! This, too, was experimentally proven!

Living DNA substance (in living tissue, not in vitro) will
always react to language-modulated laser rays and even to radio
waves, if the proper frequencies (sound) are being used. This
finally and scientifically explains why affirmations, hypnosis
and the like can have such strong effects on humans and their
bodies. It is entirely normal and natural for our DNA to react
to language.

While western researchers cut single genes from DNA strands and
insert them elsewhere, the Russians enthusiastically created
devices that influence cellular metabolism through modulated
radio and light frequencies, thus repairing genetic defects.

They even captured information patterns of a particular DNA and
transmitted it onto another, thus reprogramming cells to another
genome. So they successfully transformed, for example, frog
embryos to salamander embryos simply by transmitting the DNA
information patterns! This way the entire information was
transmitted without any of the side effects or disharmonies
encountered when cutting out and re-introducing single genes
from the DNA.

This represents an unbelievable, world-transforming revolution
and sensation: by simply applying vibration (sound frequencies)
and language instead of the archaic cutting-out procedure!

This experiment points to the immense power of wave genetics,
which obviously has a greater influence on the formation of
organisms than the biochemical processes of alkaline sequences.

Esoteric and spiritual teachers have known for ages that our
body is programmable by language, words and thought. This has
now been scientifically proven and explained.

Of course the frequency has to be correct. And this is why not
everybody is equally successful or can do it with always the
same strength. The individual person must work on the inner
processes and development in order to establish a conscious
communication with the DNA.

The Russian researchers work on a method that is not dependent
on these factors but will ALWAYS work, provided one uses the
correct frequency. But the higher developed an individual's
consciousness is, the less need is there for any type of device:
one can achieve these results by oneself. Science will finally
stop laughing at such ideas and will confirm and explain the
results. And it doesn't end there.

The Russian scientists also found out that our DNA can cause
disturbing patterns in a vacuum, thus producing magnetized
wormholes! Wormholes are the microscopic equivalents of the so-
 called Einstein-Rosen bridges in the vicinity of black holes
(left by burned-out stars).

These are tunnel connections between entirely different areas in
the universe through which information can be transmitted
outside of space and time. The DNA attracts these bits of
information and passes them on to our consciousness. This
process of hyper-communication (telepathy, channeling) is most
effective in a state of relaxation.

Stress, worry or a hyperactive intellect prevent successful
hyper- communication or the information will be totally
distorted and useless. In nature, hyper-communication has been
successfully applied for millions of years. The organized flow
of life in insects proves this dramatically. Modern man knows it
only on a much more subtle level as "intuition." But we, too,
can regain full use of it.

As an example from nature, when a queen ant is separated from
her colony, the remaining worker ants will continue building
fervently according to plan. However, if the queen is killed,
all work in the colony stops. No ant will know what to do.
Apparently, the queen transmits the "building plans" even if far
away - via the group consciousness with her subjects. She can be
as far away as she wants, as long as she is alive.

In humans, hyper-communication is most often encountered when
one suddenly gains access to information that is outside one's
knowledge base. Such hyper-communication is then experienced as
inspiration or intuition (also in trance channeling). The
Italian composer Giuseppe Tartini, for instance, dreamt one
night that a devil sat at his bedside playing the violin. The
next morning Tartini was able to note down the piece exactly
from memory. He called it the Devil's Trill Sonata.

For years, a 42-year old male nurse dreamt of a situation in
which he was hooked up to a kind of knowledge CD-ROM. Verifiable
knowledge from all imaginable fields was then transmitted to him
that he was able to recall in the morning. There was such a
flood of information that it seemed a whole encyclopedia was
transmitted at night. The majorities of facts were outside his
personal knowledge base and reached technical details of which
he knew absolutely nothing. When hyper-communication occurs, one
can observe in the DNA, as well as in the human, supernatural
phenomena.

The Russian scientists irradiated DNA samples with laser light.
On screen, a typical wave pattern was formed. When they removed
the DNA sample, the wave pattern did not disappear, it remained.
Many controlled experiments showed that the pattern continued to
come from the removed sample, whose energy field apparently
remained by itself. This effect is now called phantom DNA
effect. It is surmised that energy from outside of space and
time still flows through the activated wormholes after the DNA
was removed. The side effects encountered most often in hyper-
communication in humans are inexplicable electromagnetic fields
in the vicinity of the persons concerned.

Electronic devices like CD players and the like can be irritated
and cease to function for hours. When the electromagnetic field
slowly dissipates, the devices function normally again. Many
healers and psychics know this effect from their work: the
better the atmosphere and energy, the more frustrating it can be
for recording devices as they stop functioning at that exact
moment. Often by next morning all is back to normal.

Perhaps this is reassuring to read for many, as it has nothing
to do with them being technically inept; it means they are good
at hyper- communication.

In their book Vernetzte Intelligenz, Grazyna Gosar and Franz
Bludorf explain these connections precisely and clearly. The
authors also quote sources presuming that in earlier times
humanity had been just like the animals: very strongly connected
to group consciousness and thereby acted as a group. In order to
develop and experience individuality, however, we humans had to
forget hyper-communication almost completely.

Now that we are fairly stable in our individual consciousness,
we can create a new form of group consciousness - namely one in
which we attain access to all information via our DNA without
being forced or remotely controlled about what to do with that
information. We now know that just as we use the internet, our
DNA can feed proper data into the network, can retrieve data
from the network, and can establish contact with other
participants in the network. Remote healing, telepathy or
"remote sensing" about the state of another can thus be
explained. Some animals know from afar when their owners plan to
return home. This can be freshly interpreted and explained via
the concepts of group consciousness and hyper-communication.

Any collective consciousness cannot be sensibly used over any
period of time without a distinctive individuality; otherwise we
would revert to a primitive herd instinct that is easily
manipulated. Hyper-communication in the new millennium means
something quite different.

Researchers think that if humans with full individuality would
regain group consciousness, they would have a god-like power to
create, alter and shape things on Earth! AND humanity is
collectively moving toward such a group consciousness of the new
kind.

Fifty percent of children will become a problem as soon as they
go to school, since the system lumps everyone together and
demands adjustment. But the individuality of today's children is
so strong that they refuse this adjustment and resist giving up
their idiosyncrasies in the most diverse ways.

At the same time more and more clairvoyant children are born.
Something in those children is striving more towards the group
consciousness of the new kind, and it can no longer be
suppressed.

As a rule, weather for example is rather difficult to influence
by a single individual. But it may be influenced by group
consciousness (nothing new about this to some indigenous
tribes). Weather is strongly influenced by Earth resonance
frequencies (Schumann frequencies). But those same frequencies
are also produced in our brains, and when many people
synchronize their thinking or when individuals (spiritual
masters, for instance) focus their thoughts in a laser-like
fashion, then it is not at all surprising that they can
influence the weather.

A modern day civilization which develops group consciousness
would have neither environmental problems nor scarcity of
energy: for if it were to use such mental powers as a unified
civilization, it would have control of the energies of its home
planet as a natural consequence.

When a great number of people become unified with higher
intention as in meditating on peace - potentials of violence
also dissolve.

Apparently, DNA is also an organic superconductor that can work
at normal body temperature, as opposed to artificial
superconductors which require extremely low temperatures between
200 and 140=B0C to function. In addition, all superconductors
are able to store light and thus information. This further
explains how DNA can store information.

There is another phenomenon linked to DNA and wormholes.
Normally, these super-small wormholes are highly unstable and
are maintained only for the tiniest fractions of a second. Under
certain conditions stable wormholes can organize themselves,
which then form distinctive vacuum domains in which for example,
gravity can transform into electricity. Vacuum domains are self-
radiant balls of ionized gas that contain considerable amounts
of energy. There are regions in Russia where such radiant balls
appear very often.

Following the ensuing confusion the Russians started massive
research programs leading finally to some of the discoveries
mentions above. Many people know vacuum domains as shiny balls
in the sky. The attentive look at them in wonder and ask
themselves, what they could be.

I thought once: "Hello up there. If you happen to be a UFO, fly
in a triangle." And suddenly, the light balls moved in a
triangle. Or they shot across the sky like ice hockey pucks:
they accelerated from zero to crazy speeds while sliding
silently across the sky. One is left gawking and I have, as many
others, too, thought them to be UFOs. Friendly ones, apparently,
as they flew in triangles just to please me.

Now, the Russians found - in the regions where vacuum domains
often appear - that sometimes fly as balls of light from the
ground upwards into the sky, and that these balls can be guided
by thought. Since then it has been found that vacuum domains
emit waves of low frequency that are also produced in our brains
and because of this similarity of waves they are able to react
to our thoughts. To run excitedly into one that is on ground
level might not be such a great idea, because those balls of
light can contain immense energies and are capable of mutating
our genes.

Many spiritual teachers also produce such visible balls or
columns of light in deep meditation or during energy work, which
trigger decidedly pleasant feelings and do not cause any harm.
Apparently this is also dependent on some inner order, quality
and origin of the vacuum domain. There are some spiritual
teachers, like the young Englishman Ananda, for example, with
whom nothing is seen at first, but when one tries to take a
photograph while they sit and speak or meditate in hyper-
communication, one gets only a picture of a white cloud on a
chair.

In certain Earth healing projects, such light effects also
appear on photographs. Simply put, this phenomena has to do with
gravity and anti-gravity forces that are ever more stable forms
of wormholes and displays of hyper-communication with energies
from outside our time and space structure. Earlier generations
that experienced such hyper- communication and visible vacuum
domains were convinced that an angel had appeared before them:
and we cannot be too sure to what forms of consciousness we can
get access when using hyper-communication.

Not having scientific proof for their actual existence, people
having had such experiences do NOT all suffer from
hallucinations. We have simply made another giant step towards
understanding our reality. Official science also knows of
gravity anomalies on Earth that contribute to the formation of
vacuum domains. Recently gravity anomalies have been found in
Rocca di Papa, south of Rome.

...........

The full article can be viewed - in English - on the Kontext
website below.

All information is from the book "Vernetzte Intelligenz" von
Grazyna Fosar und Franz Bludorf, ISBN 3930243237, summarized and
commented by Baerbel. The book is unfortunately only available
in German so far. You can reach the authors here:

Kontext - Forum for Border Science
http://www.fosar-bludorf.com









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                Re: Team Locates Farthest Galaxy From Earth -

From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul>
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 18:48:34 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
Fwd Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 07:30:44 -0500
Subject: Re: Team Locates Farthest Galaxy From Earth -


>From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 15:35:57 -0600
>Subject: Re: Team Locates Farthest Galaxy From Earth

<snip>

>I bet Proxima Centauri has five small rocky planets around it
>and one gas giant, and Zeta Reticuli has six, including two gas
>giants.

>When is somebody going to launch a deep space probe - hi-res
>camera and radio, that's all we need - in that direction
>(Centauri System)? We have a good ion drive cooked up. Sure,
>it'll take a little while to get there, but we could probably
>start getting good data when it's only halfway there. We would
>probably build faster ships that would catch up with it, but we
>gotta start sometime. And we could pick up the older ships as we
>go.

Hi Tim!

I think you will soon be proven to be right - at least
partially.

Proxima Centauri, a small star which is very unlike our Sun has
two close neighbours (the binary star system Alpha Centauri A
and B) that are much more Sun-like and about the same size too.

A careful search using the "gravitational wobble" technique has
ruled out very large gas giant planets orbiting any one of these
three stars (unless these giant planets are located at distances
very much further away from these stars). Except for the
surprisingly quick retraction of the announcement that a large
planet was discovered orbiting around one of the two stars that
make up Zeta Reticuli (both are very Sun-like too), no very
large gas giants have been found orbiting these stars either.

Small rocky planets about the size of Earth or smaller orbiting
nearby stars cannot be detected with the techniques now in use
but there are plans to soon construct much higher resolution
optical telescopes that will allow us to see them directly from
the starlight that reflects off them. Just like the signals from
several radio telescopes thousands of miles apart can now be
combined to produce extremely high resolution images of galaxies
far away, once we do the same with optical telescopes we will
clearly be able to read the 'Made in U.S.A.' imprint in the
lunar soil from the bottom of the boots that the Apollo
astronauts wore during their walks on the Moon.

For decades now we have had the technology to reach the stars
with massive solar sail spacecraft that can accelerate faster
than ion drive engines and reach ultimate speeds approaching the
speed of light. Once we do send people out there in person with
their own cameras, I suspect that astronomer Terence Dickinson
who authored the very controversial and provocative article 'The
Zeta Reticuli Incident' in Astronomy magazine three decades
earlier which identified the likely home of the E.T.s that
abducted Betty and Barney Hill will also be proven to be correct
too.

I believe reprints of this Astronomy magazine article and copies
the exchange of letters it generated, including from Carl Sagan,
can still be obtained from Stanton Friedman.

>I'm all for it. And terraforming Venus, too, with some
>genetically modified bacteria that will float in the atmosphere
>and burn the CO2 into Nitrogen and H20. No time like the
present >to start!

Next to the Moon, Venus comes closer to us than Mars but for
some reason this Earth-size planet with an atmosphere is totally
ignored by everyone, including the Soviets who had sent many
spacecraft there and had even taken pictures from the surface of
the "planet of love".

Venus is the brilliant white light in the early evening sky and
not far from the bright, but not as brilliant, red light of
Mars, the "planet of war". If someone could have suggested to
U.S. President Bush and his oil buddies that the CO2 in the
atmosphere of Venus likely originated from huge oil fields just
below the surface, the 100s of billions of dollars spent for the
War with Iraq could have been used to send teams of astronauts
(along with Bruce Willis too?) to Venus to drill for oil!


Nick Balaskas








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                       Re: Excalibur Briefing - Burns

From: Chris Burns <Thurstonoreggae.nul>
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 19:16:45 EST
Fwd Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 07:32:20 -0500
Subject: Re: Excalibur Briefing - Burns


>From: John Harney <magonia.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 21:45:18 -0000
>Subject: Re: Excalibur Briefing

>I haven't read Excalibur Briefing myself, so I can't comment.

>However, there is an interesting short article by Martin
>Kottmeyer, titled "Do UFO flaps express cold war
>kundalini?",which comments on this and some of Bearden's other
>writings. It was published in Magonia Supplement No. 47, which
>is available at:

>http://www.magonia.demon.co.uk/arc/00/ms47.htm

John,

Thanks for the link!  Will read it today.

>From: Eleanor White <eleanor.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 16:25:11 -0500
>Subject: Re: Excalibur Briefing

>I'd like to add that, for us "mind control" targets, Tom Bearden
>gains credibility in our eyes from the fact that he has
>undergone invasive high-tech harassment and threats, as we have.
>As I see it, he must be doing something right.

Eleanor,

I have to admit my ignorance on the issue of mind control, but
will follow up and see if I can find out anything about
Bearden's story.


Thanks again,

Chris Burns













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                      Re: Excalibur Briefing - Gehrman

From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman.nul>
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 16:43:57 -0800
Fwd Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 07:47:44 -0500
Subject: Re: Excalibur Briefing - Gehrman


>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 22:11:23 +0000
>Subject: Re: Excalibur Briefing

>>From: Eleanor White <eleanor.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 16:25:11 -0500
>>Subject: Re: Excalibur Briefing

>>>From: Chris Burns <Thurstonoreggae.nul>
>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 19:32:40 EST
>>>Subject: Re: Excalibur Briefing

>>>For me I would at least pay attention to Thomas Bearden just on
>>>the fact that he addresses the subject of these types of photos,
>>>and discusses the images in the context of them representing a
>>>manifestation of the UFO phenomenon which as far as I have seen
>>>is totally on the mark.

>>I'd like to add that, for us "mind control" targets, Tom Bearden
>>gains credibility in our eyes from the fact that he has
>>undergone invasive high-tech harassment and threats, as we have.
>>As I see it, he must be doing something right.

>What exactly are "invasive high-tech harassment and threats,"
>and how do you know that Bearden claims to have undergone them.
>Has he said so anywhere available for inspection?

<snip>


Richard, EBK, List,

Below is Bearden's website.

At least there are the trappings of scientific method, but would
you call this science?:

http://www.cheniere.org/toc.html


Ed








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                      Re: Excalibur Briefing - Gehrman

From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman.nul>
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 16:55:31 -0800
Fwd Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 07:50:01 -0500
Subject: Re: Excalibur Briefing - Gehrman


>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 22:14:20 +0000
>Subject: Re: Excalibur Briefing

>>From: John Harney <magonia.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 21:45:18 -0000
>>Subject: Re: Excalibur Briefing

>>>From: Chris Burns <Thurstonoreggae.nul>
>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 19:32:40 EST
>>>Subject: Re: Excalibur Briefing

>>>For me I would at least pay attention to Thomas Bearden just on
>>>the fact that he addresses the subject of these types of photos,
>>>and discusses the images in the context of them representing a
>>>manifestation of the UFO phenomenon which as far as I have seen
>>>is totally on the mark.

>>I haven't read Excalibur Briefing myself, so I can't comment.

>>However, there is an interesting short article by Martin
>>Kottmeyer, titled "Do UFO flaps express cold war
>>kundalini?",which comments on this and some of Bearden's other
>>writings. It was published in Magonia Supplement No. 47, which
>>is available at:

>Now, this is really funny. Kottmeyer/kundalini vs. Bearden/weird
>science. A pox on both your houses.

Richard, John,

I thought the Kottmeyer article was great!

Could you define "weird science" and how does "weird science"
differ from regular science?

Ed








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                     Re: 1956 Lunar Path Light - Sparks

From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul>
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 20:21:01 EST
Fwd Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 07:51:56 -0500
Subject: Re: 1956 Lunar Path Light - Sparks



>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
>To: UFO Updates <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 17:06:32 -0500
>Subject: Re: 1956 Lunar Path Light

<snip>

>If the arc was actually moving, as claimed, then it would seem
>to be anomalous. The angular length is 0.0005-0.0006 radians
>approx. (very quick estimate... might be wrong!).

>That would be 5-6 ft at about 2 miles.


Hi Bruce,

It's about 1.8% of the lunar diameter, or about 0.16
milliradian. Or about 1.7 feet diameter at 2 miles. If near the
moon, about 35 miles.


Brad







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                       The Aliens Have Landed On e-Bay

From: Royce J. Myers III <ufowatchdog.nul>
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 17:03:45 -0800
Fwd Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 07:54:17 -0500
Subject: The Aliens Have Landed On e-Bay


Gee, now if I only had the $1.3 million asking price.....

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2987329514&category=19270


Regards,

Royce J. Myers III
UFOWATCHDOG.COM










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                 Re: Klass' Papers At American Philosophical

From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy.nul>
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 17:46:03 -0800
Fwd Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 07:56:05 -0500
Subject: Re: Klass' Papers At American Philosophical


>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 22:01:25 +0000
>Subject: Klass' Papers At American Philosophical Society

>During a surfing session on the internet today I discovered that
>Phil Klass's UFO papers have been donated to the American
>Philosophical Society. I didn't study the listing thoroughly,
>but two things stood out at first glance:

<snip>

Hello, all Dick,

Hmm. I didn't know denial was a Phliosophy - fancy that.


GT McCoy










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                 Re: Klass' Papers At American Philosophical

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 20:51:26 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 07:58:18 -0500
Subject: Re: Klass' Papers At American Philosophical


>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 22:01:25 +0000
>Subject: Klass' Papers At American Philosophical Society

>During a surfing session on the internet today I discovered that
>Phil Klass's UFO papers have been donated to the American
>Philosophical Society. I didn't study the listing thoroughly,
>but two things stood out at first glance:

>(1) The 1965 Heflin photograph, pictured there, was dismissed by
>him as fraudulent in a caption, on what basis I would be very
>interested to learn. No doubt because it _couldn't_ be
>legitimate because real UFOs don't exist.

>(2) His correspondence related to UFOs does not include my very
>extensive correspondence with him, nor that of Bruce Maccabee's
>very extensive correspondence with him. Hmmm! I wonder why?
>Could it be that those letters might prove to be embarassing to
>him?

Interesting. I think have all the correspondence (Klass'
originals plus copies of my responses). Perhaps not included
because of "overwhelmingness"?

Our correspondence on the McMinnville case probably numbers
in the hundreds of pages (I haven't counted).

In the New Zealand case it is _well_ over 1000 (four, 3-ring
binder notebooks).








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                    Re: 1956 Lunar Path Light - Maccabee

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 20:53:57 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 08:00:09 -0500
Subject: Re: 1956 Lunar Path Light - Maccabee


>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 17:11:45 -0500
>Subject: Re: 1956 Lunar Path Light

>>From: Lan Fleming <lfleming5.nul>
>>To: UFO Updates <ufoupdates.nul>
>.>Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 19:21:42 -0600>
>>Subject: Re: 1956 Lunar Path Light

>>>If the arc was actually moving, as claimed, then it would seem
>>>to be anomalous. The angular length is 0.0005-0.0006 radians
>>>approx. (very quick estimate... might be wrong!).

>>I think that we also need to keep in mind that the "object" (if
>>there was one) could be smaller than the telescope's resolution;
>>point sources such as stars viewed without a telescope will
>>appear larger the brighter they are.

>Has anyone mentioned the possibility that the bright object in
>the photograph may be 'intra-atmospheric' and nowhere near the
>surface of the moon at all? Bruce already made mention that even
>rough calculations based on 'apparent' size, (assuming the
>object is on the moon) puts the size at 'around' 100 miles in
>diameter. Whatever the phenomena is, it would rapidly assume
>more plausible dimensions if it was within the atmosphere when
>photographed.

Based on size alone, if the object/phenomena was close to the
>moon, some unknown astronomical phenomena seems likely to be
>responsible. That is, unless ET can built craft that is 100
>miles in diameter. If the phenom is located inside the
>atmosphere then we're looking at a whole other set of problems
>in terms of making any identification.

Let's be sure we are talking about the same images. The faint arc
is what I was talking about when I said over 100 miles if at the
moon distance. I am puzzled about the bright light, but that is
not what I think the astronomer was referring to as moving.








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                 Re: Klass' Papers At American Philosophical

From: Stan Friedman <fsphys.nul>
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 22:27:13 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 08:02:40 -0500
Subject: Re: Klass' Papers At American Philosophical


>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 22:01:25 +0000
>Subject: Klass' Papers At American Philosophical Society

>During a surfing session on the internet today I discovered that
>Phil Klass's UFO papers have been donated to the American
>Philosophical Society. I didn't study the listing thoroughly,
>but two things stood out at first glance:

<snip>

Dick,

Can you give a URL for the listing of the correspondence?
Obviously I am curious whether my correspondence with Klass is
there as well.

Also I should note that the APS has 75 feet of stuff from Edward
U. Condon re the U. of Colorado study, though Condon claimed
that the files had not been preserved. and also has Donald
Menzel's UFO Correspondence.

The latter does not include Menzel's unpublished autobiography,
nor his correspondence with President Kennedy, nor the 1100
pages of his Loyalty Hearing.

All of these are at the Harvard Archives. I had to get 3
signatures to review that material back in 1986. The fund
covered my expenses for that trip and one the same week to the
Forrestal collection at the Firestone Library at Princeton
University.


Stan Friedman








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                   Mystery Light Seen Above NSW Australia

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 20:09:54 -0800
Fwd Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 08:03:55 -0500
Subject: Mystery Light Seen Above NSW Australia


Source: ABC News

http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/s1046746.htm

February 17, 2004

Mystery light seen above NSW

Astronomers have been busy discovering what caused a mysterious
coloured light seen in the sky by many people across western New
South Wales just after 6:00am (AEDT).

The light was seen by people from as far as Lightning Ridge,
Gulgong, Oberon and Young.

Callers to ABC Central West and Western Plains this morning
described the light as a slow moving shooting star travelling
west to east, low on the horizon.

"Yeah, it was very low and very, very bright, just a bright
green object ... might be one of those Martians," one caller
said.

"It started to break up, red pieces started to come out the back
of it, then it disappeared," said another.

"I was right beside the shearing shed and it was so bright it
was like the truck was coming with full beam on," said a third
caller.

John Smith from the CSIRO Radio Telescope at Parkes says the
light was most likely a meteor burning lower in the atmosphere
than normal.








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               With Close-Ups of Mars The Mystery Gets Lost In

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 20:12:30 -0800
Fwd Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 08:05:50 -0500
Subject: With Close-Ups of Mars The Mystery Gets Lost In


Source: The New york times

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/02/17/science/space/17MARS.html?ex=3D1077598800&=
en=3D8db69a6cc1c14b6d&ei=3D5062

February 17, 2004


With Close-Ups of Mars, the Mystery Gets Lost in Space

By Sarah Boxer

Oh, for the days of mottled orbs and fiery craters! I don't want
to be a NASA naysayer, but photographically speaking, things
were more romantic before the Mars landing.

Spirit and Opportunity, the rovers rolling across the planet,
may have sturdy little arms, hearts and drill bits, but often
they are rather prosaic photographers. They have turned the
mysterious red planet into an ordinary desert. Does Mars really
look like southern Iraq?

It's not for want of equipment. The photographic Web site of NASA
and its Jet Propulsion Laboratory,

http://photojournal.jpl.nasa.gov/targetFamily/Mars

shows pictures from half a dozen cameras: the panoramic camera,
the navigation camera, the microscopic imager, the descent image
motion estimation system and the hazard identification cameras
(front and rear).

Most of the knockout Mars shots, however, are not the work of
these cameras, but were taken from much farther away, by the
Mars Global Surveyor Mars Orbiter Camera.

In 2002, this orbiting camera shot a picture of the gullies in
one of the craters of Mars. The detailed, sepia-toned photograph
looks like a lusciously thick mudslide. In 2003, the orbiter
camera took a picture of the Martian globe as a pink and gray
marble hanging in a black sky. In 2004, it photographed some
scalloped shapes in the desolate north polar dunes, indicating
which way the Martian winds blew. And later, the camera caught a
view of the south polar residual cap that could pass as one of
Edward Weston's 1930's sand dune photographs. The troughs on the
pole look like the trails of a thousand snakes in the sand.

Now that the spaceships have landed, though, the pictorial
prospect is more muted and more, well, mundane. Some of the
photographs are quite nice, but you have to keep reminding
yourself that they come from far, far away. They don't have the
thrill of unfamiliarity. You don't have to reach for a metaphor
to describe them. You can just turn to your atlas.

One photograph taken by the Opportunity looks like a shot of the
foothills in the Austrian Alps. And when the Spirit rolled off
its lander last month, it started photographing the Gusev
crater, a red rocky expanse resembling the Mojave Desert.

Each camera tried a different tack, but all ended up with
humdrum views. The panoramic camera took a picture with rolling
hills in the distance. The navigation camera got a closer look
at the flatland. The hazard-identification cameras, both front
and back, focused not only on the obstacles in front of them and
behind but also gave a view of the vehicle itself. One image
taken by the Spirit's panoramic camera even shows the drag mark,
nicknamed the Magic Carpet, left by the rover.

I know that the Mars rovers had to find a relatively smooth
place to land. And I know that the rovers are on Mars to study
the soil and rocks and see how they react to the shock of things
landing on and dragging across them. Still, it does seem a
little sad if after traveling millions of miles you find that
the most photogenic thing around you is the car you came in on
and the tracks it made.

For some viewers, of course, this is exactly the excitement.
Familiarity. Mars is like home. Same dust, same rocks, same
prospects. Maybe there was even water once. It's a place that
earthlings and their land rovers could colonize soon.

NASA has heaped on the folksiness. It treats the vehicles like
plucky characters, and when the Spirit eventually reached one of
its targets =97 a triangular football-size rock =97 NASA gave the
rock a name, Adirondack, and photographed it from every point of
view: at a distance, up close, from the side, from above. But
from my point of view, the most intriguing picture, taken in
black and white by the microscopic imager, was the strangest, a
close-up that showed only one facet of the rock, half in
brilliant sun, half in the shadow of the rover. Why? Because it
didn't look like an Earth rock.

The Opportunity is currently exploring part of the Meridiani
Planum, a place that looks, according to the panoramic camera,
like a rocky outcrop in a Courbet landscape. The view can almost
make you nostalgic for the Old World. But among the pictures
taken by the Opportunity, one of my favorites, made by the
microscopic imager, features something unearthly: perfectly
round, perfectly bizarre beadlike things on the crater's floor.
But good old NASA calls them blueberries!

Why then are some pictures taken by the hazard-identification
cameras so thrilling? They are, if anything, the most homey of
all. The rear camera is constantly looking backward, focusing
anxiously on the lander from which it roved. And the front
camera cannot take a picture without including a bit of the
rover in it. In one picture you can see the arm of the
Opportunity, and the arm's shadow, as it reaches beyond the
rover onto Martian soil. Way off in the distance you can see the
rock outcropping the rover is about to explore.

What saves the picture from looking like just another image of
an earthly construction site, though, is the sharp curve of the
horizon. The planet looks like an orb again. A round foreign
object out there waiting to be discovered.








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             Raelians Commemorate Giordano Bruno's Assassination

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 20:16:35 -0800
Fwd Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 08:07:39 -0500
Subject: Raelians Commemorate Giordano Bruno's Assassination


Source: Scoop

http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/CU0402/S00160.htm

16 February 2004

Raelian Commemorate Giordano Bruno's Assassination

Press Release: Raelian Movement

The Raelian Movement commemorates the assassination of Giordano
Bruno by a 'Planetary day of mourning=92 in his memory


The Raelian Movement, an atheist religion which founding dogma
is the affirmation that all forms of life on Earth were created
scientifically a very long time ago (thanks to a perfect
mastering of genetic engineering) by extraterrestrial visitors,
announces that it will organize on February 17, 2004 in Rome and
in many countries around the world, demonstrations asking for
the rehabilitation of Giordano Bruno.

On February 17, 1600, the philosopher and defrocked monk
Giordano Bruno was sentenced to death at the stake by the Roman
Catholic Church. He was then burnt alive at the 'Campo dei
Fiori=92 in Rome.

The 'Holy Congregation of the Roman and Universal Inquisition=92,
then under the order of the Pope Clement VIII, had him
imprisoned and the court of the Roman Inquisition initiated a
trial against him for 'heresy=92, for he dared declare that the
Universe was 'infinite=92 and even worse, suggest that some forms
of life might exist outside the Earth. These ideas were
considered totally 'heretic=92 and contrary to the Catholic
doctrine.

Today, Giordano Bruno=92s hypotheses are revived and accepted
since the discovery of planets outside our solar system and
numerous research programs are trying to discover traces of
extraterrestrial life.

Although the Church has rehabilitated, after centuries of
wondering, other philosophers such as Galileo, Jan Hus and
Savonarole, it has not yet found the courage to recognize its
culpability for the assassination of Giordano Bruno, one of the
great minds of his time, a philosopher welcomed by the European
princes and long protected by Henri III, king of France.

For the launching of the campaign '2004, International Year of
Atheism=92, the Italian Raelians will gather in the Italian
capital and will pay homage to Giordano Bruno on the anniversary
of his death; flowers will be deposited at the foot of the
statue, erected in 1889 at the 'Campo dei Fiori=92 in Rome, while
Raelians worldwide will gather also in their respective
countries in his honor and in homage to freedom of thought.

We solemnly ask the Pope of the Roman Catholic Church to:

- ask for forgiveness, in the name of his Church, for the
assassination of GIORDANO BRUNO, burnt at the stake.

- prove to the world that the repentance of his Church is not
hypocritical, by accepting to 'uncanonize=92 cardinal Robert
Bellarmin=85 who conducted the trials of Galileo and Giordano
Bruno, and who was canonized in 1930 (here is a new opportunity
to question the claim to infallibility of the popes=85).

The 60,000 Raelians of the planet will ask people to sign
petitions to request apologies from the Pope and to ask that the
canonization of the cardinal who instructed the trial be
nullified.








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                       Re: Excalibur Briefing - Hatch

From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 00:55:13 -0800
Fwd Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 08:09:35 -0500
Subject: Re: Excalibur Briefing - Hatch


>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 22:14:20 +0000
>Subject: Re: Excalibur Briefing

>>From: John Harney <magonia.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 21:45:18 -0000
>>Subject: Re: Excalibur Briefing

<snip>

>>However, there is an interesting short article by Martin
>>Kottmeyer, titled "Do UFO flaps express cold war
>>kundalini?",which comments on this and some of Bearden's other
>>writings. It was published in Magonia Supplement No. 47, which
>>is available at:

>Now, this is really funny. Kottmeyer/kundalini vs. Bearden/weird
>science. A pox on both your houses.



Hello sir Richard:

Kundalini sounds vaguely like a kind of pasta, so I looked for
'kundalini recipe" as an exact phrase. Google came up with
nothing. Ditto for "kundalini sauce", so I can't tell if its
served with marinara, pesto or sour cream.

Entering Kundalini and Recipe as separate words (any
order/context) I got lots of stuff about yoga, yogurt and Indian
mysticism in general.

Maybe that's what its served with, a spiced yogurt sauce and/or
mild curry.


Best wishes

- Larry









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                         Re: Off-Season UFOs - Hatch

From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 01:15:47 -0800
Fwd Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 08:11:49 -0500
Subject: Re: Off-Season UFOs - Hatch


>From: Ray Dickenson <editor.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>,
>Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 22:07:34 +0000
>Subject: Re: Off-Season UFOs

>>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 15:44:15 -0800
>>Subject: Re: Off-Season UFOs

>>Ah! Lets presume they can 'read minds' as in some advanced
>>technology that can see minuscule electrical impulses in the
>>brain, through the skull mind you, and from some reasonably
>>safe distance. Quite a trick.

>>If I were in their shoes (do they wear shoes?) I would search
>>the internet. Google might have some really interesting users
>>if this has any merit! Its child's play getting onto the net
>>anonymously. Bleep in a few keywords and see what pops up.

>>I'm not expecting or hoping for contact personally, that
>>seems really unlikely to me. It would be inconsistent with
>>their behavior to date, and with any unbiased study of this
>>planet and its natural inhabitants.

>Larry, your logic, as always, is impeccable, but I'm still
>uneasy about our tactical assumptions and our (single) strategy.

>Situation

>- several types of 'visitors' have been here for quite a while
>and choose to show themselves in tantalizing and confusing
>glimpses that follow no general pattern (except contradictory
>ones?).

Uh, is that your estimate of the situation, or just an idea we
can kick around?

I'd like some solid proof that some intelligent alien probes
have arrived at Earth; a much more conservative conjecture.
There could be different types for different purposes, yes.

>Tactics

>- our tactical assumption of 'sensible' technology. We're facing
>a mixed bag of possible friends/foes almost certainly
>years/generations/millennia ahead of us (statistical
>probabilities). We surely daren't assume any limit on the
>technology available to them - no matter how 'magical'.

Unless you attribute supernatural or magical powers to them,
they are bound by the laws of physics. What's missing here is we
don't know all the rules, and hence the limitations that nature
does and must impose.

For example: In theory, given enough (useful) energy, one could
make anything out of anything -but- Nobody can make something
out of nothing .. not unless you want to drag in the gods etc.

>Here's quote from two sharp thinkers:

>"An advanced technology (say a million years old, or five
>hundred million, compared to the two hundred year history of
>'advanced' human technology) will be able to make, distribute,
>and hide artifacts that we cannot begin to imagine."

>--Professors Jack Cohen & Ian Stewart "Evolving the Alien"
>ISBN 0-09-187927-2

Agreed. Probably stuff we wouldn't recognize if we looked right
at it too, but not just for a hobby. I would expect anything
placed on or about the Earth to have some purpose.

>So I'm uneasy about our tactics - it's like a naked savage
>deciding to punch-out an armored brigade _and_ a regiment of
>hypnotists.

I see no need for conflict. What's needed are facts.

>Strategy

>- the only strategy we (our leaders) seem to have is: Compete or
>capitulate!

I'm sorry, but you lost me here.

>That's what _we'd_ expect of a primitive animal. And that's what
>we're demonstrating (and broadcasting) for all to see and hear.
>"Exploitative consumerism - red in tooth and claw" - whether
>it's called capitalism, communism, facism or any other political
>"ism".

<snip>


Best wishes

- Larry Hatch








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   Feb > Feb 17

                      Excerpt From 'Valley Of The UFOs'

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 08:37:24 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 08:37:24 -0500
Subject: Excerpt From 'Valley Of The UFOs'




Source: Fate Magazine

Volume 57 No. 2 Issue 646
February 2004

Valley Of The UFOs
by
Frank Joseph

[Ridgeland - near Menomonie, NW Wisconsin --ebk]

<snip>

A Fatal Encounter

More serious was an encounter of the worst kind experienced on
the night of April 22, 1976, when police officer George Wheeler
investigated a flaming red object hovering a hundred feet or so
over central Elmwood. As he drove up beneath the craft, his
radio abruptly ceased to function. Sometime later, David Moots,
a local resident, saw the patrol car sitting silently and unlit
in the middle of a downtown street. Inside, Officer Wheeler was
barely conscious.

In response to ambulance technicians trying to save his life en
route to the emergency ward, Wheeler claimed he had been hit in
the chest with a painful red ray that shot from the UFO through
his windshield. As his health rapidly deteriorated for causes
his doctors could not determine, he repeatedly told them, to
their disbelief; that he was dying from the mysterious effects
of internal injuries caused by alien beings. Within six months
after his April en counter, Officer George Wheeler died of
unknown causes.

What is it about the Belleville-Ridgeland-Elmwood area that
attracts visitors from another world? Whatever the reason or
reasons, the relationship between extraterrestrials and the
territories where they are sighted cannot be discounted.
Investigators hoping to learn some answers may wish to camp out
in Wisconsin�s Valley of the UFOs - if they dare.


Frank Joseph is a regular FATE contributor and editor of
Ancient American Magazine.

Also a regular monthly contributor to:

Mind/Shift... Explaining The UnExplained

http://www.virtuallystrange.com/mindshift/

ebk








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                  Re: Raelians Commemorate Giordano Bruno's

From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg.nul>
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 07:31:43 -0600
Fwd Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 08:52:59 -0500
Subject: Re: Raelians Commemorate Giordano Bruno's


>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 20:16:35 -0800
>Subject: Raelians Commemorate Giordano Bruno's Assassination

>Source: Scoop

>http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/CU0402/S00160.htm

>16 February 2004

>Raelian Commemorate Giordano Bruno's Assassination

>Press Release: Raelian Movement

>The Raelian Movement commemorates the assassination of Giordano
>Bruno by a 'Planetary day of mourning' in his memory


...Even the broken clock can be right two times a day.

Lehmberg.nul

EXPLORE "AlienViewGroup" at its HostPros URL.
http://www.alienview.net


JOHN FORD RESTORATION FUND -- John will be released eventually.
He'll need a tax free cash stake to get on his feet. Let's put
one together for him; the bigger it is -- the more attention he
gets. It could have been you. E-mail for detail. $450.00 pledged
-- $200.00 collected!

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite.
What others see from afar, I leave far behind me."
- Giordano Bruno, scourged by the scabrously specious scurrilous.






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                      Re: 1956 Lunar Path Light - Oberg

From: James Oberg <joberg.nul>
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 07:13:49 -0600
Fwd Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 09:05:03 -0500
Subject: Re: 1956 Lunar Path Light - Oberg


>From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 15:24:37 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
>Subject: Re: 1956 Lunar Path Light

>If you cannot get this issue of JSE through the inter-library loan
>system, you should be able to get a complete reprint (including
>the amazing images of an object which looks very much like a
>classic flying saucer) ...

Isn't the use of the term 'object' the conclusion of a rigorous
study, which even the author admits has not been done? So
calling it an "object" from the beginning is presumptive and
biased, eh?
It's an interesting image, to be sure - whether it's an object,
or an imaging artifact, or a reflection, aye, there's the
rub..... I would be interested in seeing a copy of the article,
for research purposes.
My mailing address is
RT 2 box 350,
Dickinson,
TX 77539
I would like to determine whether the author interviewed any of
the witnesses or read any of the transcripts of the air-to-
ground and the mission debriefings, or viewed any of the other
imagery from the mission especially during this flight phase [as
well as imagery from other missions in similar flight phases].
And if the author did not, I am interested in his excuse.
I would also like to determine how the author decided my opinion
of the photograph without - as far as I can remember - asking
me.

Thanks!

James Oberg








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                      Re: 1956 Lunar Path Light - Oberg

From: James Oberg <joberg.nul>
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 07:18:23 -0600
Fwd Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 09:06:33 -0500
Subject: Re: 1956 Lunar Path Light - Oberg


>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 17:11:45 -0500
>Subject: Re: 1956 Lunar Path Light - Velez


>Has anyone mentioned the possibility that the bright object in
>the photograph may be 'intra-atmospheric' and nowhere near the
>surface of the moon at all?


Am I the only one curious about missing data such as date/time
of the image and the reported angular rate across the face of
the Moon? Seems to me that obtaining such information would go a
long way towards constraining the speculations that have been
offered.


James Oberg







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                        Re: Excalibur Briefing - Hall

From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 14:06:02 +0000
Fwd Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 09:12:25 -0500
Subject: Re: Excalibur Briefing - Hall


>From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 16:55:31 -0800
>Subject: Re: Excalibur Briefing

>>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 22:14:20 +0000
>>Subject: Re: Excalibur Briefing

>>>From: John Harney <magonia.nul>
>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 21:45:18 -0000
>>>Subject: Re: Excalibur Briefing

>>>>From: Chris Burns <Thurstonoreggae.nul>
>>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>>Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 19:32:40 EST
>>>>Subject: Re: Excalibur Briefing

>>>>For me I would at least pay attention to Thomas Bearden just on
>>>>the fact that he addresses the subject of these types of photos,
>>>>and discusses the images in the context of them representing a
>>>>manifestation of the UFO phenomenon which as far as I have seen
>>>>is totally on the mark.

>>>I haven't read Excalibur Briefing myself, so I can't comment.

>>>However, there is an interesting short article by Martin
>>>Kottmeyer, titled "Do UFO flaps express cold war
>>>kundalini?",which comments on this and some of Bearden's other
>>>writings. It was published in Magonia Supplement No. 47, which
>>>is available at:

>>Now, this is really funny. Kottmeyer/kundalini vs. Bearden/weird
>>science. A pox on both your houses.

>Richard, John,

>I thought the Kottmeyer article was great!

>Could you define "weird science" and how does "weird science"
>differ from regular science?

>Ed

Ed,

As a former MUFON editor I was the recipient of some of
Bearden's impenetrable, "scientific" writings. They were, as far
as I could tell, all "trappings" and no substance. In short,
classic pseudoscience. Pretentious and chockalok with vast
arrays of mathematical symbols. Science at least attempts to
explain, or to hypothesize and theorize, not obscure and
obfuscate.

 - Dick







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                 Re: Klass' Papers At American Philosophical

From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 14:11:36 +0000
Fwd Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 16:25:35 -0500
Subject: Re: Klass' Papers At American Philosophical


>From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 17:46:03 -0800
>Subject: Re: Klass' Papers At American Philosophical Society

>>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 22:01:25 +0000
>>Subject: Klass' Papers At American Philosophical Society

<snip>

>Hmm. I didn't know denial was a Phliosophy - fancy that.


>GT McCoy

GT,

Yes, any more or less systematic ideas are philosophies. I was a
Philosophy major at Tulane University.  Philosophies range from
the sublime to the ridiculous. The history of philsophy is the
history of human ideas.

I can still vividly recall the head of the department, the
formidable James K. Feibleman (fondly known as "The Feeb")
declaring in class one day that a religion is a philosophy
that's taken seriously.

Denial is a Klassic religion.

 - Dick









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                 Re: The Aliens Have Landed On e-Bay - Shell

From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 08:15:24 -0600
Fwd Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 16:27:06 -0500
Subject: Re: The Aliens Have Landed On e-Bay - Shell


>From: Royce J. Myers III <ufowatchdog.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 17:03:45 -0800
>Subject: The Aliens Have Landed On e-Bay

>Gee, now if I only had the $1.3 million asking price.....

>http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2987329514&category=19270

Photo looks like some kids out smokin dope in a field somewhere.








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                    Re: 1956 Lunar Path Light - Lehmberg

From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg.nul>
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 08:45:03 -0600
Fwd Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 16:43:18 -0500
Subject: Re: 1956 Lunar Path Light - Lehmberg


>From: James Oberg <joberg.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 07:18:23 -0600
>Subject: Re: 1956 Lunar Path Light

>>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 17:11:45 -0500
>>Subject: Re: 1956 Lunar Path Light - Velez

>>Has anyone mentioned the possibility that the bright object in
>>the photograph may be 'intra-atmospheric' and nowhere near the
>>surface of the moon at all?

>Am I the only one curious about missing data such as date/time
>of the image and the reported angular rate across the face of
>the Moon? Seems to me that obtaining such information would go a
>long way towards constraining the speculations that have been
>offered.

>James Oberg

...and as we all know 'speculations' must be 'constrained' at
all costs if comfortable stasis is to be remotely achieved!

Lehmberg.nul
www.AlienView.net

Photo Album: http://www.alienview.net/AVAlbum.htm
(send picture as attachment to Lehmberg.nul)
Splash page:   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AlienViewGroup/
Radio Show & Splash Page:  http://www.alienview.net/alienviews.htm
Radio Show Archives: Out of Service at this time...








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                       UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 9 Number 7

From: John Hayes <webmaster.nul>
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 15:26:47 +0000
Fwd Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 16:46:29 -0500
Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 9 Number 7



Posted on behalf of Joseph Trainor.

<Masinaigan.nul>
==========================

UFO ROUNDUP
Volume 9, Number 7
February 18, 2004
Editor: Joseph Trainor

E-mail: Masinaigan.nul
Website: http://www.ufoinfo.com/roundup/



UFO AND CHEMTRAILS SEEN
IN NORTHERN ITALY

      On Sunday, January 11, 2004, at 4:45 p.m., hundreds
of people in Parma, a large city 140 kilometers (84 miles)
southeast of Milano, watched as a lone airplane spread
chemtrails through the southwestern sky.
      The chemtrails were also seen in nearby Fornovo di
Taro.
       According to an eyewitness, "We noticed a lot of
contrails in the southwest corner of the sky, over the
Appennine Mountains.  One airplane was travelling from
east to west, and the contrails were neat and straight.
Suddenly, a lot lower, there appeared a bright orange
spot, apparently flying in formation with the plane as the
plane was making the contrails.  This object was moving
with the plane but did not make any contrails itself."
      Fabrizio, another witness, reported, "I reached to
grab my binoculars and, when I looked, the UFO was a bit
ahead of the plane.  My binoculars were 12X, and I clearly
saw the plane.  But when I brought the binoculars to focus
on the UFO, the object disappeared."
      Unfamiliar with chemtrails--the long-lasting, puffy
contrails often seen in the USA--the Italian witnesses
commented that "while the plane was in motion, the
contrail made a point-like fold, and this way the contrail
remained for a long period of time and then gradually
vanished.  Do you have any explanation for this?"
(Editor's Comment:  Your best bet is to visit Google and type in
"chemtrails.")
      Also on January 11, 2004, a couple in Fossacesia, a
town 40 kilometers (25 miles) south of Pescara, spotted a
UFO at 5:55 p.m.  "I was with my girl friend Carlotta,"
the witness reported, "We parked the car on the side of
the road, the side opposite to the entry gate.  We got out
and crossed the road to visit her grandmother's apartment.
That's when I saw a bright light turning on a horizontal
angle for about five seconds.  I pointed it out to
Carlotta, but she had already seen it.  We both followed
it with our gazes.  The object moved along in a horizontal
line.  Then it disappeared, like an explosion or
disintegration.  It seemed like a comet, horizontal
course, no visible contrail, like a phenomenon maybe known
but for us inexplicable."
      On Thursday, January 1, 2004, "two 18-year-old women
left a New Year's Eve party at 2:10 a.m." in Thiene, a
small city in the foothills of the Dolomite Mountains
about 150 kilometers (90 miles) west-northwest of Venezia
(Venice) and had a UFO encounter.
      According to Italian ufologist Carmelo Scuderi, the
women "saw in the sky, above the house of one of them, a
silent multicolored sphere emitting light rays.  The
object was described by one of the women as 'like the
bright turning disco sphere they used to have in the 1970s
and 1980s.'  The sphere rotated on its own axis while
simultaneously swinging like a pendulum.  One girl tried
to snap a photo of it.  The girls then went inside the
house, but when they came out, they found that the sphere
had disappeared."  (Grazie a Carmelo Scuderi per questi
rapporti.)


UFOs SIGHTED IN UK

      On Sunday, February 8, 2004, just after midnight, Tim
Lock was outdoors in the woods at Wraxall and Failand in
Bristol, UK when "approaching from the northwest came a
white light with a red tinge piloting above the trees,
moving sharply about but hovering over the same area, as
if it had lost something.  It moved up, down, forward,
backward, up, down, forward and so on.  We also saw three
smaller shooting-star objects shoot about under it from
the left at about 15 minute intervals."
      Tim and his companions kept the strange object in
view until 2 a.m.  "I filmed it on my camcorder, and my
mother and girl friend also observed it.  I watched it
until I fell asleep at 2 a.m.  I then awoke around 3:30
a.m., and it was gone.  It was real white with a halo
around it that was fuzzy.  We tried to think logically
about what it was" but couldn't come up with any ideas.
      On Tuesday, February 10, 2004, Raymond Mulhall, 17,
"spotted a UFO over Meanwood in Leeds," UK.  "This
sighting was witnessed by 8 people, two of whom were
policemen.  The object was about 50 feet (15 meters)
across and 20 feet (6 meters) high.  It moved across the
sky without a single noise.  It appeared to land in an
area nicknamed the Witches Quarry."
      "An hour later," Ray reported, "I arrived at the
Witches Quarry and found damaged trees and three
triangular depressions in the ground.  These were 25 feet
(7.7 meters) apart and depressed into the ground to a
depth of 8 inches (20 centimeters).  There was a strange
heat emanating from the ground that I found rather creepy,
so I left and returned home."  (Email Form Reports)


SMALL UFO APPROACHES
THE SPACE STATION

      "The Russian-United States crew aboard the
International Space Station (ISS) has reported an
unidentified object outside their orbiting craft, said
space officials on Tuesday," February 10, 2004.
      "U.S. astronaut Michael Foale and his Russian
colleague Alexander Kaleri last week observed 'a 20-
centimeter (8-inch) long strange object of soft material,'
which was floating in space, said a NASA representative in
Russia, Sergei Puzanov."
      "'For the moment, it's not clear what it is.  U.S.
and Russian experts are studying photos sent by the (ISS)
crew to Earth to try and determine its origin,' he said,
adding that it posed 'no danger to the station or its
crew.'"
      "It could be a piece of the station's insulation or a
strap used to attach some technical equipment to the
outside of the station, according to Russian experts
quoted by the Interfax news agency."
      "'It is possible we will never manage to find out
what it was,' said a spokesman for Russian mission control
in Moscow, Valery Lyndin."
      "According to Lyndin, there was a similar incident on
the now-scrapped Russian space station Mir."
      "The cosmonauts saw 'a shining object' which they
filmed, but experts who studied these images 'were unable
to establish what the object was,' he added."  (See the
Interfax report for February 10, 2004, "Something's out
there."  Many thanks to Jim Hickman for this news story.
And don't forget to visit Jim's Web site, The Hickman
Report, at http://www.thehickmanreport.com)


RED UFO SIGHTED IN
FRESNO, CALIFORNIA

      On Monday, February 9, 2004, at 8:25 p.m., Sam S. was
outdoors at his home in Fresno, California (population
427,652), a large city located 182 miles (267 kilometers)
southeast of San Francisco, when he saw a UFO approaching
from the north.
      The object, Sam reported, consisted of "alternate red
flashing lights in close proximity, all of them blinking.
Looked like random red sparkles in a group.  I sent an
email to our local news station, KSEE-TV, Channel 24," but
received no reply.  (Email Form Report)



BUSY WEEK FOR ROVERS
ON MARS

      With Spirit operational once again, it was a busy
week on Mars for both of the Mars rovers.
      On Monday, February 9, 2004, Opportunity took "up-
close images of the crater wall" in Meridani Planum,
showing "wavy rock layers eaten away by Martian dust and
embedded with small, dark 'spherules,'" which have
geologists puzzled.
      Opportunity's images "suggest the crater's bedrock
wall is made up of layers of either fine volcanic ash or
ancient Martian dust compacted over time.  The origins of
the darker 'spherules' are still a mystery."
      Also on Monday, "Opportunity's twin rover, Spirit,
has started riving itself to a larger crater on the other
side of Mars."
      On Tuesday, February 10, 2004, "the Spirit rover
rolled across the surface of Mars, shattering a one-day
distance record on the planet, NASA said.  The drive
covered more than three times the greatest distance that
NASA's Sojourner rover traveled in one day on its 1997
mission to Mars, mission manager Jim Erickson said."
      Spirit is "on its way to investigate a crater
nicknamed 'Bonneville,'" which is about 800 feet (240
meters) from where the rover landed in Gusev Crater.
      But progress on Spirit's journey was hampered
Wednesday, February 11, 2004, "when frigid temperatures on
Mars" prevented NASA "from sending commands to the Spirit
rover for a planned drive" to Bonneville Crater.  "The
cold prevented the rover from rotating an antenna."
      Opportunity finished up the week by taking close-up
images of the exposed bedrock at its landing site.  (See
USA Today for February 10, 2004, "Rover zeroes in on
crater wall," page 7D; USA Today for February 11, 2004,
"Spirit sets Mars distance record," page 3A; and USA Today
for February 12, 2004, page 14D.)


BEAGLE 2 LANDER IS
DECLARED "LOST"

      "European scientists officially ended their hunt for
the missing Beagle 2 Mars lander" on Wednesday, February
11, 2004 "by announcing an investigation into the
disappearance of the spacecraft in December (2003)."
      "The investigation, to be conducted jointly by the
British government and the European Space Agency (ESA), is
routine following the loss of any spacecraft."
      "Beagle 2, part of the European Space Agency's Mars
Express mission, was scheduled to land on the Red Planet
on December 25 (2003).  It has not been heard from since
it separated from the mother ship in mid-December."  (See
USA Today for February 12, 2004, "Agency gives up on lost
Beagle 2 lander," page 14D)


READER FEEDBACK:

NO UNDERGROUND BASE NEAR
SOUTH FORK, COLORADO

      Concerning the rumors of a secret underground FEMA
base off Highway 160 just west of South Fork, Colorado
(See UFO Roundup, Volume 9, Number 6 for February 11,
2004, "Underground base stirs fears in Colorado," page 9),
ufologist Christopher O'Brien writes, "I have a feeling I
should respond to this post in your current UFO Roundup
service."
      "As you know, I have been investigating the San Luis
Valley for over ten years.  I have investigated rumors of
underground facilities on the Colorado/New Mexico border
and (to my knowledge) this construction project located
just west of South Fork, Colorado--where the road snakes
its way up toward Wolf Creek Pass--is simply a mundane
expansion of State Highway 160 from a two-lane to a four-
lane highway."
      "I don't know who Rose King is, but I think she is
mistaken and maybe even a bit alarmist in her report.
They've been doing obvious road work in the canyon and
constructing an obvious passenger car tunnel as anyone
from the area can attest."
      "By the way, Masonic Park is a summer home/retirement
community for Masons and has never had anything strange
associated with the location.  Several really good UFO
sightings have occurred between there and Creede,
Colorado, but that's about it."
      "Also, it's not the 'San Juan Valley' but the San
Luis Valley."



      Well, that's it for this week.  Join us in seven days
for more UFO, Fortean and paranormal news from around the
planet Earth, brought to you by "the paper that goes home-
-UFO Roundup."  See you next time.

UFO ROUNDUP: Copyright 2004 by Masinaigan Productions, all
rights reserved.  Readers may post news items from UFO
Roundup on their Web sites or in news groups provided that
they credit the newsletter and its editor by name and list
the date of issue in which the item first appeared.

E-Mail Reports to: Joseph Trainor <Masinaigan.nul>
or use the Sighting Report Form at:

http://www.ufoinfo.com/forms/form_sighting.htm

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Website comments: John Hayes <webmaster.nul>

UFOINFO: http://www.ufoinfo.com

Official Archives for UFO Roundup, AUFORN Australian
UFO Reports and Experiences, UFO + PSI Magazine
plus archives of Humanoid Sighting Reports (Albert
Rosales), Filer's Files, Oz Files, UFO News UK.
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                      Alien Country: Earthlings Welcome

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 09:03:51 -0800
Fwd Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 16:47:32 -0500
Subject: Alien Country: Earthlings Welcome


Source: CNN

http://www.cnn.com/2004/TRAVEL/02/16/hln.hot.road.alien.country/

Alien country: Earthlings welcome

By Mike Fink
CNN Headline News
Monday, February 16, 2004 Posted: 6:00 PM EST (2300 GMT)

(CNN) -- When pictures from NASA's Mars rovers were beamed back
to Earth, many were disappointed by the absence of images of
alien life. For those of us who support the search for E.T., our
attention must continue to focus here on our home planet.

Roswell, New Mexico, is considered by many to be the
"mothership" of alien adventure; one of the most famous UFO
"crashes" occurred here in 1947. Since then a whole culture of
alien-awareness has grown. But the city hardly holds a monopoly
on extraterrestrial excitement. In fact, there are several
alternatives to this mainstream alien hot spot.

One of them is Dreamy Draw, a recreation area near Phoenix,
Arizona. As the story goes, a UFO crashed there in 1947, just
three months after the Roswell incident. The remains of two 4-
1/2-foot passengers were reportedly taken from the crash site
and kept in a local's freezer until the military took them away.
True believers say that shortly after the crash, the Army Corps
of Engineers built a dam at the site to cover up the evidence.
According to the city of Phoenix, the dam wasn't built until
1973. Decide for yourself.

If you'd like the opportunity to see a UFO, head out to the "UFO
Watchtower" in Hooper, Colorado. Judy Messoline, a former cattle
rancher, opened the observatory in 2000. Since then, she has
played host to thousands of visitors and claims to have
documented numerous sightings.

A cemetery in Aurora, Texas, supposedly features an alien
pilot's burial site. A nearby state historical marker tells the
legend of a spacecraft that crashed there in 1897. However, the
exact location of the pilot's grave is unknown. If you can't
make it out to the cemetery, rent "Aurora Encounter," about the
alien's visit.

Aliens must like Wisconsin. It's home to three UFO "Capitals of
the World." First there's Dundee, where every summer believers
and nonbelievers alike gather to celebrate extraterrestrial
visitations. They call it UFO Daze. Coincidentally, several UFOs
have been reportedly sighted on nearby Highway 67.

Wisconsin's second "UFO Capital of the World" is Elmwood. UFOs
allegedly started visiting the area in the mid-70s. Since then,
residents claim to have seen anywhere from 30 to 50 strange-
looking objects in the sky. Every year the town holds a festival
that includes a group "UFO Watch."

And then there's Belleville, which holds its annual UFO
celebration the last Saturday in October.

In the movie "Contact," the National Radio Astronomy Observatory
in New Mexico received alien messages. Located near Socorro, 27
radio antennas search the skies for intergalactic data. Each
antenna is 2 feet in diameter and weighs 230 tons. Free guided
tours are available. Even if the observatory hasn't recently
made contact with alien life, there's something eerie about
seeing all of those dishes pointed toward the heavens.

NASA's rovers are continuing their exploration of Mars.
President Bush has announced plans to launch a manned mission
there, but that won't happen until after 2030. So if you can't
wait that long for interplanetary interaction, keep searching --
 even if it's here on Earth.










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                    Re: 1956 Lunar Path Light - Stanford

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 11:53:52 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 16:48:58 -0500
Subject: Re: 1956 Lunar Path Light - Stanford


>From: James Oberg <joberg.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 07:13:49 -0600
>Subject: Re: 1956 Lunar Path Light - Oberg

>>From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 15:24:37 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
>>Subject: Re: 1956 Lunar Path Light

>>If you cannot get this issue of JSE through the inter-library loan
>>system, you should be able to get a complete reprint (including
>>the amazing images of an object which looks very much like a
>>classic flying saucer) ...

>Isn't the use of the term 'object' the conclusion of a rigorous
>study, which even the author admits has not been done? So
>calling it an "object" from the beginning is presumptive and
>biased, eh?

Jim,

 "...presumptive and biased...", huh?!

It is you who are 'loading' the word 'object' with unintended
meaning(s), and, thus, you who come across as presumptive and
biased.

Seems you're due a vocabulary reality check,

Haven't you ever heard terms like, "the object of our
attention", a "photographic object", etc.?

Of the word "object", www.dictionary.com says:

(1) Something perceptible by one or more of the senses,
especially by vision or touch; a material thing.

(2) A focus of attention, feeling, thought, or action: an object
of contempt.

(3) The purpose, aim, or goal of a specific action or effort:
the object of the game.

So it is you, as usual, who are trying to put meanings into UFO
researcher's statements that they may not intend, by
subjectively 'reading into' their statements. I suggest that the
term was not used to define the image as a solid, 3-D something,
but to propose questions that might diagnose the nature or
origin of an optical image, whether purely of optical or
artifactual origin or due to a physical something passing in
front of the camera at whatever distance.

In the current issue of Discover magazine, Volume 25, # 3,
March, 2004, there is an interesting interview with scientist
Meenakshi Wadhwa, the very bright woman who is Curator of
Meteorites at the Field Museum, Chicago. That interview begins
with the entire left side of a page taken up with a large-font
quote (See the quote below.) from the scientist, stating
something that you and your CSICOP cronies have either never
learned, or else that you neglect to apply to your thinking if
you once learned it:

"If there's one thing you learn as a scientist, it's never close
your mind off to things that seem farfetched." -- Meenakshi
Wadhwa

Oh, that certain parties on this list were as wise as she.


Ray Stanford

"You know my method. It is founded upon the observance of
trifles." -- Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery








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                 Re: Klass' Papers At American Philosophical

From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 14:24:55 +0000
Fwd Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 16:51:47 -0500
Subject: Re: Klass' Papers At American Philosophical


>From: Stan Friedman <fsphys.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 22:27:13 -0400
>Subject: Re: Klass' Papers At American Philosophical Society

>>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 22:01:25 +0000
>>Subject: Klass' Papers At American Philosophical Society

>>During a surfing session on the internet today I discovered that
>>Phil Klass's UFO papers have been donated to the American
>>Philosophical Society. I didn't study the listing thoroughly,
>>but two things stood out at first glance:

>Dick,

>Can you give a URL for the listing of the correspondence?
>Obviously I am curious whether my correspondence with Klass is
>there as well.

>Also I should note that the APS has 75 feet of stuff from Edward
>U. Condon re the U. of Colorado study, though Condon claimed
>that the files had not been preserved. and also has Donald
>Menzel's UFO Correspondence.

>The latter does not include Menzel's unpublished autobiography,
>nor his correspondence with President Kennedy, nor the 1100
>pages of his Loyalty Hearing.

>All of these are at the Harvard Archives. I had to get 3
>signatures to review that material back in 1986. The fund
>covered my expenses for that trip and one the same week to the
>Forrestal collection at the Firestone Library at Princeton
>University.

>Stan Friedman

Stan and List,

The American Philosophical Society url for this is:

www.amphilsoc.org/library

Click on MSS Department and use their search engine for Klass
UFOs, and you will find a list of the holdings. Your name is not
on the list either, nor is Jim McDonald's as I recall. Very
interesting selectivity there. Of course every kook and debunker
is included. Perhaps we should ask CSICOP to justify this
pattern.


 - Dick










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                        Re: Excalibur Briefing - Koch

From: Joachim Koch <lists.nul>
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 18:01:01 +0100
Fwd Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 16:52:58 -0500
Subject: Re: Excalibur Briefing - Koch


>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 22:11:23 +0000
>Subject: Re: Excalibur Briefing

>The speculations that someone (a) has the technology and
>(b) the time, resources, and personnel to follow
>individuals around sounds pretty far-fetched to me.
>Certainly not the U.S. Government. And Greg Boone hints
>at some other monolithic, all- powerful group without
>specifying it.

>What exactly are we talking about here? Let's speak out
>clearly on what you think is going on and the reasons why
>you think so.
>Mutterings and insinuations and suspicions without
>documented facts are worthless.


Hello Richard,

Do you have to be naive here on this List or is this already
debunking?

To help you out of the dilemma with (a) you should take a few
hours time and read "Gravitobiology" by T.E. Bearden.

To help you with your next dilemma (b) you should take another
few hours time and read: "Angels don't play this HAARP. Advances
in Tesla Technology" by N.J. Begich and J. Manning.

And regarding an "all-powerful group"...

You surely know already that your President is a member of the
"Skull & Bones" order? And how and by whom he became President?
And that his father is a member of the "Skull & Bones" order?
And that his grandfather was a member of the "Skull & Bones"
order? This same grandfather who alledgedly robbed the head of
Geronimo, the famous Apache Elder, from his grave only to
present it as a trophy for his initiaton to this order?

And you surely know that the next President (if elected) John
Kerry was 'tapped' only two years before George W. to become a
member of the "Skull & Bones" order which he is since then?

So these two know underwent the same sinister rites in the same
'Tomb' and they surely have met several times in the 'Bohemian
Club' with many other known names.

All facts, all documented. Come on, you surely know about.

So how do you feel?


All the best,

Joachim

-----------------------------------
More info: http://www.kochkyborg.de
-----------------------------------







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   Feb > Feb 17

                          Secrecy News -- 02/17/04

From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood.nul>
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 12:33:57 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 16:55:46 -0500
Subject: Secrecy News -- 02/17/04


SECRECY NEWS
from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy
Volume 2004, Issue No. 19
February 17, 2004


**      "INDEFENSIBLE SECRECY" AT CIA
**      SPECIAL OPERATIONS FORCES AND THE LAW
**      SENATE TO HOLD SECRET SESSION ON INTELLIGENCE
**      SSCI EXPANDS INQUIRY INTO PRE-WAR IRAQ INTELLIGENCE


"INDEFENSIBLE SECRECY" AT CIA

Government officials are successfully blocking efforts to reform
national security secrecy policies, but the price of their
success is mounting public contempt for those policies.

The CIA last week defeated a Freedom of Information Act lawsuit
to compel the Director of Central Intelligence (DCI) to
declassify the total intelligence budget for Fiscal Year 2002.
 A federal court ruled that the aggregate intelligence spending
figure is exempt from disclosure. (Secrecy News, 02/10/04).

However, the DCI's victory is raising larger questions about the
integrity of the U.S. intelligence bureaucracy's secrecy
practices, and even about its ability to perform its core
mission:  to properly assess threats to the national security.

The government's handling of the budget disclosure matter "is so
erratic that it cannot reasonably command public respect,"
according to a ringing editorial in the Washington Post today.

The Post noted that the CIA had declassified budget totals from
1997 and 1998 but "ludicrously" resisted release of similar
information from half a century earlier.

The stubborn opposition to disclosure of the intelligence budget
total "only highlights a classification system out of control,"
the Post concluded.

See "Indefensible Secrecy," Washington Post, February 17 (free
registration required):

 http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A46680-
2004Feb16.html

In a motion filed in D.C. District Court today, the Federation
of American Scientists asked Judge Ricardo M. Urbina to
reconsider his February 6 ruling and to release the requested
budget number for 2002.  See:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/foia/2002/sa021704.pdf


SPECIAL OPERATIONS FORCES AND THE LAW

Special operations forces (SOF) are small military units that
employ unconventional methods of warfare.  Thousands of U.S.
special operations personnel are deployed in dozens of countries
around the world including, of course, Afghanistan and Iraq.

But "the unconventional operational methods of SOF create a
chink in their armor not faced by the conventional armed
forces," according to a recent master's thesis by an Air Force
Major:  "The nontraditional attire worn by SOF while operating
in enemy territory, rather than traditional uniforms, arguably
results in forfeiture of prisoner of war (POW) status for SOF
under the law of war."

In addressing this legal issue, the author provides a highly
readable introduction to the organization and characteristics of
U.S. special forces, as well as the relevant laws of war.

See "Nontraditional Uniforms Do Accord Prisoner of War Status
For Special Operations Forces" by Maj. Robert James Drone,
George Washington University Law School, August 31, 2003 (79
pages, 2.7 MB PDF file) (thanks to RT):

http://www.fas.org/man/eprint/drone.pdf

"The special forces' success in Iraq has ... obscured a more
ominous consequence of their newfound popularity: that expanding
their role in the way [Defense Secretary] Rumsfeld intends could
be very dangerous for U.S. foreign policy," writes Jennifer
Kibbe of the Brookings Institution.

"Thanks to the vagueness of U.S. law governing covert action,
using the military for such operations is -- at least under one
interpretation of the law -- much easier than using the CIA."

See "The Rise of the Shadow Warriors" by Jennifer D. Kibbe in
Foreign Affairs, March/April 2004.


SENATE TO HOLD SECRET SESSION ON INTELLIGENCE

The Senate will meet in closed session in the near future to
address the status of U.S. intelligence, the Washington Post
reported.

The precise date and scope of the session have yet to be worked
out, the Post said ("Senate to Close Intelligence Session" by
Helen Dewar and Dana Priest, February 14).

Since 1929, the Senate has held 53 secret sessions, according to
a report of the Congressional Research Service.  Six sessions in
January and February 1999 concerned the impeachment of President
Clinton.  The next most recent secret session in the Senate in
April 1997 addressed the Chemical Weapons Convention.

The origin and past practice of such closed sessions of Congress
is summarized in "Secret Sessions of Congress: A Brief
Historical Overview" by Mildred Amer, Congressional Research
Service, updated August 5, 2003:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/RS20145.pdf


SSCI EXPANDS INQUIRY INTO PRE-WAR IRAQ INTELLIGENCE

The Senate Select Committee on Intelligence issued a statement
on February 12 regarding the newly expanded scope of its inquiry
into the pre-war use of intelligence on Iraqi weapons of mass
destruction.

That inquiry will now include the politically delicate but
crucial question of "whether public statements and reports and
testimony regarding Iraq by U.S. Government officials made
between the Gulf War period and the commencement of Operation
Iraqi Freedom were substantiated by intelligence information."
 See:

http://www.fas.org/irp/news/2004/02/ssci021204.html


_______________________________________________
Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the
Federation of American Scientists.

To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to
secrecy_news-request.nul
with "subscribe" in the body of the message.

OR email your request to saftergood.nul

Secrecy News is archived at:
http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html

_______________________
Steven Aftergood
Project on Government Secrecy
Federation of American Scientists
web:    www.fas.org/sgp/index.html
email:  saftergood.nul
voice:  (202) 454-4691







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   Feb > Feb 17

                      Re: Excalibur Briefing - Gehrman

From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman.nul>
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 10:57:49 -0800
Fwd Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 16:57:30 -0500
Subject: Re: Excalibur Briefing - Gehrman


>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 14:06:02 +0000
>Subject: Re: Excalibur Briefing

>>From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 16:55:31 -0800
>>Subject: Re: Excalibur Briefing

>>Could you define "weird science" and how does "weird science"
>>differ from regular science?

>As a former MUFON editor I was the recipient of some of
>Bearden's impenetrable, "scientific" writings. They were, as far
>as I could tell, all "trappings" and no substance. In short,
>classic pseudoscience. Pretentious and chockalok with vast
>arrays of mathematical symbols. Science at least attempts to
>explain, or to hypothesize and theorize, not obscure and
>obfuscate.

Richard,

By "Pretentious and chockalok (chockablock) with vast arrays of
mathematical symbols" do you mean you couldn't understand it, so
you considered it crap and then dismissed it?

Maybe you couldn't understand it because it was you who couldn't
understand the science.

He does have a "PhD, MS (nuclear engineering), BS (mathematics -
 minor electronic engineering)" which indicates to me that he
considers himself a "scientist".

Below you'll find a brief excerpt from an article on his web
page. Do you consider this an example of "impenetrable,
"scientific" writings"?

Or is his writing just difficult to understand? I don't have the
answer since I'm not a trained physicist but this quote doesn't
seem much different from many scientific sounding pronouncements
made by mainstream scientists which are accepted as being true
by other scientists.

I don't see anything "weird" about it.

Ed

http://www.cheniere.org/toc.html

Reducing Our Dependence on Fossil Fuels
T. E. Bearden

Dependence on fossil fuels is a direct result of continuing
serious flaws in the classical electrodynamics (CED) model used
for electrical power system design and production. CED
eliminates what actually powers an electrical circuit, and this
error is still propagated by the scientific community nearly
half a century after the discovery of broken symmetry in
physics. The asymmetry of opposite charges means that every
dipolarity extracts energy from the vacuum and outputs a
continuous stream of observable EM energy. By correcting the
flawed CED model and its resulting electrical power technology,
a permanent solution to the energy crisis is possible,
significantly reducing the usage of fossil fuels and nuclear
power systems.

The source charge and its associated surrounding virtual charges
of opposite sign in the vacuum comprise a dipolar ensemble. By
its asymmetry, this dipolar ensemble absorbs virtual photon
energy from the vacuum, transduces it into real observable EM
energy, and continuously emits observable photons radially in
all directions The emitted energy establishes and replenishes
the associated fields and potentials expanding toward infinity
at light speed. This solves the long-vexing problem of how the
charge produces its associated EM fields and potentials and what
furnishes the input energy.







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   Feb > Feb 17

                 Re: The "Bunny" And The Mainstream Media's

From: Paul Anderson <paulanderson.nul>
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 11:23:28 -0800
Fwd Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 17:00:41 -0500
Subject: Re: The "Bunny" And The Mainstream Media's


>From: Mac Tonnies <macbot.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 12:05:14 -0800 (PST)
>Subject: The "Bunny" And The Mainstream Media's Literalism

>See: http://posthumanblues.blogspot.com

>--Mac Tonnies

>OY!!! Those "debunkers" sure are a clever lot, huh?

>The esteemed New York Times, no less......

>Instead of going out of its way to edify the public with a
>guffaw-inducing image of the Face on Mars with cartoon rabbit
>ears, why didn't the Times' illustrious staff do any
>investigative reporting?

>If they had, they'd learn that the lander-debris idea is porous,
>that the so-called "bunny" has evidently moved, that the
>Opportunity rover had a perfect chance to take a closer look but
>was steered onward to save "precious machine time," and that no
>one - not even the biggest nuts out there (and there are a ton
>of them) - think the "bunny" is actually a rabbit (I personally
>labeled it the "pronged object", in an unsuccessful attempt to
>avoid "hit-pieces" like this one).

>The Times is brandishing the "bunny" label literally. What about
>"Sushi," the rock lovingly (and quite incomprehensibly) named by
>JPL's own? Will the Times run a condescending article chastising
>NASA geologists for suggesting the presence of raw fish in a
>Martian crater?

Apart from my more current crop circle studies, probably my
biggest passion since I was a little kid was space exploration,
planetary in particular, so I've been watching these new Mars
missions with much interest.

I can back Mac up on this, this "bunny" saga is puzzling. Nobody
I ever heard of actually thought this thing was a real rabbit
(!), yet this is the treatment from the NYT. Yet NASA itself, as
Mac points out, has often take to giving "cute" names to
interesting objects or photos. Where are these kinds of
condescending articles about that??

It is odd-looking in the available images, with two easily seen
protrusions or "stalks" pointing upward, hence the "bunny"
analogy.

The object itself is clearly visible in the full-size colour panorama for
anyone who wants to examine it themselves.

What's interesting also is that it is (or was) located _directly_
between the lander and the far right-hand end of the bedrock,
which is where the rover just went straight to.

In subsequent front hazcam images taken after the panorama, when
the rover is first on the ground, but not yet moved at all, the
object is apparently gone, even though the images show the same
location, even given the "fish-eye" type distortion. What
happened to it?

In public comments within the last few days JPL MER team members
have stated that they believe it was a piece of flimsy debris
from the airbags. I see that as plausible, the thing that annoys
me is that they have done nothing to back that up. There has
been no mention of it in any of the press briefings, etc.

If you look at some of the newest images within the last day or
two now, you also see the rover's tracks going to the bedrock,
passing right through the spot where the object used to be, even
doing "circles" around what may be the exact spot, as if they
were looking to see what happened to it.

Perhaps JPL is puzzled also as to why it is no longer there, and
their best guess right now is that it was a piece of lightweight
debris that blew away (an interesting comment from Ronald
Greeley of the MER team though, in response to the question of
whether the rover's instrument arm could have picked up the
object, was that no, it can't pick up anything of weight). Or
maybe they were just hoping that if they publicly ignored it
long enough that it would go away, which it apparently did!

Some have conjectured that the object was run over or somehow
otherwise removed by the rover, but if the assessment of the
images taken before the rover made any movement toward the
bedrock is accurate, it seems the "bunny" disappeared before
that on it's own. But that it _was_ there is certain.

Regardless of what the thing is or was, I think this is a good
example of how NASA and the mainstream media too often tend to
react when things that "shouldn't be there", unexpectedly show
up anyway.

At least on the other hand though, we are getting some wonderful
close-up images of the odd small grey-blue coloured "spherules"
covering the soil and attached to / imbedded in the bedrock at
Meridiani, whatever they may turn out to be!


Paul







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                       Close Encounter Yours For $1.3m

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 11:57:47 -0800
Fwd Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 17:02:02 -0500
Subject: Close Encounter Yours For $1.3m


Source: The Register

http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/28/35616.html

17/02/2004

Close Encounter yours for $1.3m
By Lester Haines

Stay up to date wherever you are, with The Register Mobile

Blimey they don't half sell some old rubbish on eBay, eh? The
latest extraordinary item to come to our attention is a close
encounter video apparently shot in 1998 by someone called
"Sargel18".

Of course, there's plenty of this sort of nonsense going down on
the world's favourite auction site, but the blurb accompanying
this particular must-have offer is worth a shufti. Here's the
intro:

A BRIEF BIO ON SARGEL18: In 1988 a man walked down into his
basement in his home in Ringwood NJ and sees hundreds of black
Salamanders lining its walls and floor. At this exact moment, he
remembers that while living in Wanaque NJ in 1964 he was invited
aboard a UFO. After recalling this powerful experience, his life
begins to fall apart and within months he finds himself at the
door of a powerful witch in search of the meaning of his
experiences. As the door opened, the words spoken to him would
set him on the path of becoming one of the most successful
metaphysical researchers to come about in our known memory.

"I've been waiting for you for 15 years. Now come inside it's
time to start your teachings". And so it goes twittering on for
what seems like hours. What is actually for sale, though, is
"history making, 1998 video footage of a meeting with an
interdimensional Alien ('contact' by Sargel18) in the deep woods
of Wanaque, NJ.".

Good Lord. And here, for the record, is what such an encounter
(with suitable digital enhancements) looks like:

Please do not ask us what on earth a "preSumer Naggas" is and
why it should want to appear in a puff of smoke in New Jersey.
The vendor's insane ravings do not throw any light on the
matter.

Still, if you'd like to examine the footage in further detail,
it's yours for a cool $1.3m. And don't think about sending Mr 18
sarky emails, either. This bloke is deadly serious:

First, let's get this out of the way. Harassing and or menacing
emails will be forwarded to the proper authorities. Also, please
do not send me any letters, which contain attachments, as they
will all, be deleted immediately, without viewing.

Let me also remind you that placing a winning bid on eBay
constitutes a legally binding contract. Any false bids will be
dealt with by eBay standards and also my lawyer will be
contacted. Consider the above, fair warning as this is a legal
auction. Better play it safe and just visit Sargel18's website
instead. It's heralded as "THE ONGOING RESEARCH OF AN ALCHEMICAL
METAPHYSICIAN AT AN ANCIENT NEW JERSEY VORTEX", and complete
with the following warning:

The pictures and information contained hereon can be very
unsettling for some peoples realities. Our observation's show
that over 7 out of 10 people when viewing certain pictures that
relate directly to their belief systems have a tendency to shut
down the reasoning part of the brain and show signs of nervous
tension. We believe that this directly relates to reality
programming that has been instilled in our race since its
conception. "By whom", is the ultimate question that needs an
answer. Please proceed with caution.

Readers will have to find out for themselves what shocking
truths lie beyond this web portal, because there's no way on
God's earth this particular hack is going to risk complete
mental collapse by coming face-to-face with the intergalactic
terror which is the preSumer Naggas. Don't say we didn't warn
you.










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   Feb > Feb 17

                  Re: Raelians Commemorate Giordano Bruno's

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 15:42:31 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 17:06:56 -0500
Subject: Re: Raelians Commemorate Giordano Bruno's


>From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 07:31:43 -0600
>Subject: Re: Raelians Commemorate Giordano Bruno's Assassination

>>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 20:16:35 -0800
>>Subject: Raelians Commemorate Giordano Bruno's Assassination

>>Source: Scoop

>>http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/CU0402/S00160.htm

>>16 February 2004

>>Raelian Commemorate Giordano Bruno's Assassination

>>Press Release: Raelian Movement

>>The Raelian Movement commemorates the assassination of Giordano
>>Bruno by a 'Planetary day of mourning' in his memory

>...Even the broken clock can be right two times a day.

Good point. Yet, with the spaced-out Raelian clock having a 24-
hour face, let's cuts that figure to once per day. <G>

Ray Stanford

"You know my method. It is founded upon the observance of
trifles." -- Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery








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                       Re: Off-Season UFOs - Dickenson

From: Ray Dickenson <editor.nul>
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 20:47:41 +0000
Fwd Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 17:08:19 -0500
Subject: Re: Off-Season UFOs - Dickenson


>From: Mary Chapman <alfie107.nul>
>Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 15:26:46 -0800
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Subject: Re: Off-Season UFOs

>>tempted to forecast useful contact for some who can
>>demonstrate and broadcast logic/empathy/altruism (quite a
>>package) to the _really_ advanced ones. Maybe it's already
>>happening - neither parties are likely to tell CNN.

>Exactly! It's almost an oxymoron!

>I have copied and pasted an article that I think is very
>interesting here.

>It concerns Hyper-Communications, which in my opinion may be
>the answer to_how_we eventually will communicate properly
>with ET, and possibly how evolution has been influenced
>and/or has been a process of intervention by Super-
>Intelligences as some have speculated.

Mary and List

Many thanks for good words and that article - I'd've missed it
(been a bit busy here).

Maybe it's serendipity but at first sight it chimes with current
thoughts about _real_ physics, coming together with some
remembered results (Rhine/Duke) of experiments on plant / animal
consciousness (linked reactions to stimuli by remote organisms).

Put together with stuff at "Super Ants" (Google) there seems to
be a case emerging for a non-local (instantaneous & unlimited by
distance) medium allowing information transfer between organisms
and possibly even consciously, between physical minds (organic
things in our skulls).

We easily allow ourselves to be impressed by human "science",
but when we realize it doesn't know how crystals really grow
["perceptions item crystals" in Google], or how some animals
really communicate instantaneously (forget "instinct" - it's a
science cop-out, like "mass-hallucination" - how? without
telepathy!), that should put us on our guard.

It looks like reality is still out there, waiting to be found.

Thanks again - hope to go further with this soon.

cheers

Ray D

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Perceptions" http://www.perceptions.couk.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~





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                       Re: Off-Season UFOs - Dickenson

From: Ray Dickenson <editor.nul>
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 20:48:30 +0000
Fwd Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 17:10:26 -0500
Subject: Re: Off-Season UFOs - Dickenson


>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 01:15:47 -0800
>Subject: Re: Off-Season UFOs

>>several types of 'visitors' have been here for quite a while
>>and choose to show themselves in tantalizing and confusing
>>glimpses that follow no general pattern (except contradictory
>>ones?).

>Uh, is that your estimate of the situation, or just an idea we
>can kick around?

Yep, Larry (and List)

I respect your expertise and any stand for impartial
objectivity.

To me the UFO scene is a court-room, w/expert witnesses,
advocates (ie lawyers) for either side, gov't as good / bad
judge and media as court reporter.

But the back-row of the jury just wants a grip of `what really
happened'. After that, this jury-member doesn't really need
further legal wrangling or technical details, interesting and
valuable though they may be to the experts & lawyers.

Official stuff (and maybe those quotes gathered by Patrick D
Knowles) at:

http://www.perceptions.couk.com/reports.txt


could've convinced many by now, even without decades of
multiple-witness testimony from around the world - some at:

http://www.perceptions.couk.com/uef/wb2.html

top of page.

Well, assessment of available evidence has recently brought me
to that viewpoint.

The feeling is - "it's time move on"

cheers

Ray D

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Perceptions" http://www.perceptions.couk.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~





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                      Re: 1956 Lunar Path Light - Shell

From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 15:57:15 -0600
Fwd Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 17:12:21 -0500
Subject: Re: 1956 Lunar Path Light - Shell


>From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 08:45:03 -0600
>Subject: Re: 1956 Lunar Path Light

>>From: James Oberg <joberg.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 07:18:23 -0600
>>Subject: Re: 1956 Lunar Path Light

<snip>

>>Am I the only one curious about missing data such as date/time
>>of the image and the reported angular rate across the face of
>>the Moon? Seems to me that obtaining such information would go a
>>long way towards constraining the speculations that have been
>>offered.

>>James Oberg

>...and as we all know 'speculations' must be 'constrained' at
>all costs if comfortable stasis is to be remotely achieved!

I suggest that additional data would have little or no effect on
"constraining" speculation. What fresh data usually does is
steer speculation into different avenues, rarely is it
constrained. Speculation tends to be like toothpaste that
resists being squashed back into the tube.

Fortunately, I'm entertained by speculation. I never consider it
a hinderance to investigation. When dealing with extraordinary
claims, one must remain open to avenues that might lead to
extraordinary evidence.








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   Feb > Feb 18

                         60's Pilot Sighting Reports

From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO <hbccufo.nul>
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 13:55:39 -0800
Fwd Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 02:44:18 -0500
Subject: 60's Pilot Sighting Reports


Hi List

I have a couple of new reports to type up, just received
February 16, 2004. But below are two interesting pilot reports I
received today. Enjoy.

Pilot Sighting Reports

Hello Brian,

The gentleman wishes to remain anonymous, which I always
respect. Please do not ask me for the fellows contact
information as I will not be giving it out. Thank you, Brian

Here is a report on my sightings, in the air and on the
ground.You may use them as you wish.

My first sighting happened in 1961, on a trip from Tampa, Fla.
to Atlanta, Ga. It was a night flight and we had leveled off at
our assigned altitude and were approximately 40 miles north of
Tampa. We suddenly observed a flight of four star-like objects
heading south, high above us and to the east, going very fast.
They were in tandem and were surrounded by a bluish-white haze
or glow.We called on Miami Center frequency and asked if anyone
else was seeing these objects. Immediately, an Areo Commander
aircraft crew said, "Yes, we are over Vero Beach and we have
them in sight". Miami Center switched us over to Jacksonville
Center at this time. After our initial call into Jacksonville
Center, we asked if the controller had been getting any reports
of UFOs. He replied that he had numerous reports and that the
Air Force had scrambled jet fighters to attempt to catch
them,but had failed to get close to them. He also mentioned that
there had been many sightings all along the east coast of the
U.S. from as far north as Richmond,Va.  My estimate of their
speed was something over 2000 mph and their altitude above
35,000 ft. We observed them about 30-45 seconds. After
completing the trip and driving home, I turned on the radio to
hear the latest news. The announcer said that according to a
U.S. Airforce report, the mysterious objects seen in the eastern
and southern states tonight, were meteors. I say, "Meteors, they
were NOT". I knew I had seen my first UFOs and what a thrill it
was.

My second sighting occurred in 1967 on the final leg of a trip
to St. Louis, Mo. and back to Atlanta, Ga., with a stop at
Huntsville, Ala. It was late afternoon, the sun had just gone
down and the sky was quite bright with good visibility in a
cloudless sky. In the southwest we noticed a very bright
reddish-orange light that almost appeared like Venus would in a
darker sky, but not in a color that Venus presents. It was just
a short time later that we noticed the light was moving toward
us. As it got closer we could see that it would pass behind our
aircraft. Then, as our viewing angle changed, we could see that
there were in fact, two lights (objects) and their brilliance
was nearly blinding, traveling in tandem and the rearward object
slightly to the left of the leader. Their speeds were just
fantastic!  A guesstimate of 4000mph. Their altitudes appeared
to be in the 4000-6000ft. range and it was my belief that they
flew right over Redstone!  They left no smoke trails or plasma
trails and simply disappeared after passing behind us. This
sighting was the most thrilling I've had (so far).

Brian, I'll send you more sightings soon.

I would really like to extend my deepest thanks to this fellow
for his reports.

Take care

Brian Vike, Director
HBCC UFO Research
Canadian Toll Free UFO Hotline 1 866 262 1989 - Free call.
Home - Phone  250 845 2189
email: hbccufo.nul
Website: http://www.hbccufo.com






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                       Re: Excalibur Briefing - Shell

From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 16:15:11 -0600
Fwd Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 02:46:12 -0500
Subject: Re: Excalibur Briefing - Shell


>From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 10:57:49 -0800
>Subject: Re: Excalibur Briefing


>Reducing Our Dependence on Fossil Fuels
>T. E. Bearden

>The source charge

An electron or positron, perhaps?

>and its associated surrounding virtual charges

Virtual charges?  As in the virtual monkey that might fly out of
my butt?

>of opposite sign in the vacuum comprise a dipolar ensemble.

So we have a charged particle surrounded by virtual particles of
the opposite polarity?  Says who?

>By its asymmetry, this dipolar ensemble absorbs virtual photon
>energy from the vacuum

Whoa right here.  How can a surrounded particle have asymmetry?
Even allowing for such "virtuality," sounds like what we have
here is a symmetrical charge bubble.

>transduces it into real observable EM energy,

"Transduces" what via how?  Unless you're going to show me some
kind of trans-virtual flux, I just don't see how that can
happen.

>and continuously emits observable photons radially in all
>directions.

So the photons are passing through the virtual charge shell?
Huh?

>The emitted energy establishes and replenishes the associated
>fields and potentials expanding toward infinity at light speed.

So we've got virtual flux growing as a result of photon
transmission, but how do we have an infinite expansion with
photons, which are blocked by dense matter?

>This solves the long-vexing problem of how the charge produces
>its associated EM fields and potentials and what furnishes the
<input energy.

It boils down to explaining (not) an unexplained effect by using
hypothetical and unproven concepts.  If you don't pay attention
to what Bearden is actually saying, you get the notion that you
understand and that he's said something important, but it turns
out his "explanation" is as virtual as the charged particles he
talks about.








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                        Re: Excalibur Briefing - Hall

From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 22:24:43 +0000
Fwd Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 02:48:11 -0500
Subject: Re: Excalibur Briefing - Hall


>From: Joachim Koch <lists.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 18:01:01 +0100
>Subject: Re: Excalibur Briefing

>>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 22:11:23 +0000
>>Subject: Re: Excalibur Briefing

<snip>

>All facts, all documented. Come on, you surely know about.

>So how do you feel?

>All the best,

>Joachim

Joachim,

I feel great, but you must be quite ill to entertain such quaint
and off-the-wall ideas. But what do I know; I have two older
brothers who graduated from Yale, which must in your
conspiratorial circles totally disqualify me from being honest
and straightforward. There are two American English words that
aptly describe your views presented here, and they rhyme with
equine and excrement.


 - Dick








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                      Re: 1956 Lunar Path Light - Velez

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 17:30:36 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 02:49:52 -0500
Subject: Re: 1956 Lunar Path Light - Velez


>From: James Oberg <joberg.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 07:18:23 -0600
>Subject: Re: 1956 Lunar Path Light

>>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 17:11:45 -0500
>>Subject: Re: 1956 Lunar Path Light - Velez

>>Has anyone mentioned the possibility that the bright object in
>>the photograph may be 'intra-atmospheric' and nowhere near the
>>surface of the moon at all?

>Am I the only one curious about missing data such as date/time
>of the image and the reported angular rate across the face of
>the Moon? Seems to me that obtaining such information would go a
>long way towards constraining the speculations that have been
>offered.


Herr Oberg,

Ya know, part of the reason why I always call you 'Herr Oberg'
has to do with your 'brown-shirt' attitude toward myself and
others in regard to force feeding us what _you_ think we should
or should not be saying.

Instead of being so concerned about "constraining" my comments
maybe you should pay some attention to problems that are closer
to home, such as dealing with your own serious, (not to mention
rather annoying) 'control' issues.

If you were raised as a Christian you'll recognize the reference
I'm sure:

"First remove the log from thine own eye..." yadda, yadda, and
all that. You know what I mean?


John Velez









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                        Re: Excalibur Briefing - Hall

From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 22:35:19 +0000
Fwd Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 02:53:10 -0500
Subject: Re: Excalibur Briefing - Hall


>From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 10:57:49 -0800
>Subject: Re: Excalibur Briefing

>>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 14:06:02 +0000
>>Subject: Re: Excalibur Briefing

>>As a former MUFON editor I was the recipient of some of
>>Bearden's impenetrable, "scientific" writings. They were, as far
>>as I could tell, all "trappings" and no substance. In short,
>>classic pseudoscience. Pretentious and chockalok with vast
>>arrays of mathematical symbols. Science at least attempts to
>>explain, or to hypothesize and theorize, not obscure and
>>obfuscate.

>Richard,

>By "Pretentious and chockalok (chockablock) with vast arrays of
>mathematical symbols" do you mean you couldn't understand it, so
>you considered it crap and then dismissed it?

>Maybe you couldn't understand it because it was you who couldn't
>understand the science.

<snip>

>Reducing Our Dependence on Fossil Fuels
>T. E. Bearden

<snip>

Ed,

I was a scientific philosophy major and a mathematics minor at
Tulane University, so I understand the difference between clear,
logical exposition and doubletalk. Yes, I do see "weird science"
in this example of his writing. I see lots of what we used to
call "buzz words" and "buzz phrases" which sound impressive but
really say nothing meaningful at all. For example:

Broken symmetry
Dipolar ensemble
Virtual photon energy

I also see someone who obviously believes that a long tradition
of science is wrong and he is right when it comes to generating
something out of nothing, and a lot of wishful thinking cloaked
in pseudoscience.

I remain very underwhelmed.

 - Dick








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                       Re: Excalibur Briefing - Hatch

From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 14:36:21 -0800
Fwd Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 02:54:56 -0500
Subject: Re: Excalibur Briefing - Hatch


>From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 10:57:49 -0800
>Subject: Re: Excalibur Briefing

>>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 14:06:02 +0000
>>Subject: Re: Excalibur Briefing


<snip>

>http://www.cheniere.org/toc.html

>Reducing Our Dependence on Fossil Fuels
>T. E. Bearden

>Dependence on fossil fuels is a direct result of continuing
>serious flaws in the classical electrodynamics (CED) model used
>for electrical power system design and production. CED
>eliminates what actually powers an electrical circuit, and this
>error is still propagated by the scientific community nearly
>half a century after the discovery of broken symmetry in
>physics. The asymmetry of opposite charges means that every
>dipolarity extracts energy from the vacuum and outputs a
>continuous stream of observable EM energy. By correcting the
>flawed CED model and its resulting electrical power technology,
>a permanent solution to the energy crisis is possible,
>significantly reducing the usage of fossil fuels and nuclear
>power systems.

>The source charge and its associated surrounding virtual charges
>of opposite sign in the vacuum comprise a dipolar ensemble. By
>its asymmetry, this dipolar ensemble absorbs virtual photon
>energy from the vacuum, transduces it into real observable EM
>energy, and continuously emits observable photons radially in
>all directions The emitted energy establishes and replenishes
>the associated fields and potentials expanding toward infinity
>at light speed. This solves the long-vexing problem of how the
>charge produces its associated EM fields and potentials and what
>furnishes the input energy.

- - -

Ed,

Without going into details (I'm late for work), Bearden's piece
above reads like balderdash to me, even with a short scan.

What on Earth is 'asymmetrical' about equal and opposite
charges? That's considered the epitome of symmetry if I have it
right.

If Bearden has the secret to free energy from virtual photons
(or whatever) he should be very, very rich by now. The Japanese
would be all over it for one thing, even if somehow overlooked
here.

Any details on where Bearden got his Ph.D?


Just curious

- Larry








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                   Whittlesea UFO Photograph Enhancements

From: Barry Taylor <stingray.nul>
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 10:24:21 +1100
Fwd Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 14:40:51 -0500
Subject: Whittlesea UFO Photograph Enhancements


Hello List members,

To view my enhancements and comments on the two recent Oz UFO
photos, go to my web page at:

http://www.theozfactor.cjb.net/oz_1.htm

Featuring False Colour Enhancements from 'Super Zooms' of each object.

Feed back on my comments welcome.

Regards,

Barry Taylor
Australian UFO Researcher








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                      Re: 1956 Lunar Path Light - Franz

From: Capt. Alejandro Franz <alfafox.nul>
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 20:01:19 -0700
Fwd Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 14:51:07 -0500
Subject: Re: 1956 Lunar Path Light - Franz


>From: Ted Phillips - I.A.I. <archaeoanom.nul-linc.net>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 09:26:21 -0600
>Subject: Re: 1956 Lunar Path Light

>>From: Cap. Alejandro Franz <alfafox.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 04:44:02 -0700
>>Subject: Re: 1956 Lunar Path Light

<snip>

>>I found that the picture of the moon is a fake. Maybe that's the
>>ridicule your good friend was afraid of. If you see the part in
>>which the other half side that is part of the moon couldn't let
>>the stars show in the background as it does.

>>See:

>>http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/ufoupdates/listers/ted/images/lunar%201956
.jpg

>Those are not stars, they are dust particles and various debris
>from lying around for 50 years - you need a course on
>photography, my friend.


Hi Ted,

Thank you for your nice post.

I promise I'll take a photography course also I think you need a
course on Astronomy and on investigation.  <g>

You said you have the negative of that 'print' and you didn't
provide it. That negative days before could have been of
valuable help but now here is the real story about the 1956
Lunar Path Light that you said it was taken by a good friend of
yours and that's not true. What should I say of this one? is a
fake or a hoax?

I learned from a dictionary that a fake is something that is a
counterfeit; not what it seems to be. A counterfeit is a copy
that is represented as the original. A hoax is something
intended to deceive or a deliberate trickery.

As part of my 'armschair investigation" I've found that the
original 'print' is from 1953 that was discovered and
photographed in Oklahoma by Dr. Leon Stuart, an amateur
astronomer.

STORY:

"In the early morning hours of Nov.15, 1953, an amateur
astronomer in Oklahoma photographed what he believed
to be a massive, white-hot fireball of vaporized rock rising
from the center of the Moon's face. If his theory was right,
Dr. Leon Stuart would be the first and only human in history
to witness and document the impact of an asteroid-sized
body impacting the Moon's scarred exterior.

Almost a half-century, numerous space probes and six manned
lunar landings later, what had become known in astronomy circles
as "Stuart's Event" was still an unproven, controversial theory.
Skeptics dismissed Stuart's data as inconclusive and claimed the
flash was a result of a meteorite entering Earth's atmosphere.

That is, until Dr. Bonnie J. Buratti, a scientist at NASA's Jet
Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif., and Lane Johnson of
Pomona College, Claremont, Calif., took a fresh look at the 50-
year-old lunar mystery.  "Stuart's remarkable photograph of the
collision gave us an excellent starting point in our search,"
said Buratti.

See J. Buratti NASA video at:

http://realserver1.jpl.nasa.gov:8080/ramgen/Video-moon-crater-AVC-2003-039.rm

"We were able to estimate the energy produced by the collision.
But we calculated that any crater resulting from the collision
would have been too small to be seen by even the best Earth-
based telescopes, so we looked elsewhere for proof."

Using imagery taken from lunar orbit by the Clementine
spacecraft in 1994, Buratti and Johnson discovered a crater that
was significantly brighter than others in the vicinity.

They had located "Stuart's Event" See:

http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/images/moon/moon_lunarflash_buratti.gif

Buratti and Johnson's reconnaissance of the 35-kilometer
(21.75-mile) wide region where the impact likely occurred
led them to observations made by spacecraft orbiting the
Moon.

First, they dusted off photographs taken from the Lunar Orbiter
spacecraft back in 1967, but none of the craters appeared a
likely candidate. Then they consulted the more detailed imagery
taken from the Clementine spacecraft in 1994.

"Using Stuart's photograph of the lunar flash, we estimated the
object that hit the Moon was approximately 20 meters (65.6 feet)
across, and the resulting crater would be in the range of one to
two kilometers (.62 to 1.24 miles) across. We were looking for
fresh craters with a non-eroded appearance," Buratti said.

Part of what makes a Moon crater look "fresh" is the appearance
of a bluish tinge to the surface. This bluish tinge indicates
lunar soil that is relatively untouched by a process called
"space weathering," which reddens the soil. Another indicator of
a fresh crater is that it reflects distinctly more light than
the surrounding area.

Buratti and Johnson's search of images from the Clementine
mission revealed a 1.5-kilometer (0.93 mile) wide crater. It had
a bright blue, fresh-appearing layer of material surrounding the
impact site, and it was located in the middle of Stuart's
photograph of the 1953 flash. The crater's size is consistent
with the energy produced by the observed flash; it has the right
color and reflectance, and it is the right shape.

Having the vital statistics of Stuart's crater, Buratti and
Johnson calculated the energy released at impact was about .5
megatons (35 times more powerful than the Hiroshima atomic
bomb). They estimate such events occur on the lunar surface once
every half-century.

"To me this is the celestial equivalent of observing a once-in-
a- century hurricane," said Buratti. "We're taught the Moon is
geologically dead, but this proves that it is not. Here we can
actually see weather on the Moon," she said.

While Dr. Stuart passed on in 1969, his son Jerry Stuart offered
some thoughts about Buratti and Lane's findings. "Astronomy is
all about investigation and discovery. It was my father's
passion, and I know he would be quite pleased," he said. Buratti
and Johnson's study appears in the latest issue of the space
journal, Icarus."


Source:

NASA Solves Half-Century Old Moon Mystery
http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/releases/2003/23.cfm
____________________________________________


CASE CLOSED

Best regards to you and all,

Capt. Alejandro Franz
director.nul








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                 Re: Close Encounter Yours For $1.3m - McCoy

From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy.nul>
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 18:14:03 -0800
Fwd Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 15:05:54 -0500
Subject: Re: Close Encounter Yours For $1.3m - McCoy


>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 11:57:47 -0800
>Subject: Close Encounter Yours For $1.3m

>Source: The Register

>http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/28/35616.html

>17/02/2004

>Close Encounter yours for $1.3m
>By Lester Haines

>Stay up to date wherever you are, with The Register Mobile

>Blimey they don't half sell some old rubbish on eBay, eh? The
>latest extraordinary item to come to our attention is a close
>encounter video apparently shot in 1998 by someone called
>"Sargel18".

<snip>

>Readers will have to find out for themselves what shocking
>truths lie beyond this web portal, because there's no way on
>God's earth this particular hack is going to risk complete
>mental collapse by coming face-to-face with the intergalactic
>terror which is the preSumer Naggas. Don't say we didn't warn
>you.


Hello all, Frank.

I looked at this when Royce posted this,seems to be indeed a
oh,Ganja enhanced flim effort. "Blair Witch" has nothing to worry
about. The 1.3 mil price is probably 1000X the production
costs,unless they used some parent's video cam, then it would be
less.

As far as the Pre Sumer Naggas goes, the Sumer civilization was
the first to use Naggahide, explaining the absent Post-Sumer
Naggas.


GT McCoy








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                       Re: Off-Season UFOs - Maccabee

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 22:17:44 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 15:08:33 -0500
Subject: Re: Off-Season UFOs - Maccabee


>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 16:44:10 -0800
>Subject: Re: Off-Season UFOs


>>From: Nick Pope <nick.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 11:10:46 -0000
>>Subject: Re: Off-Season UFOs

<snip>

>>We need to factor in data on population density. If more UFOs
>>are seen in a particular area, might it not reflect the fact
>>that there are more people there to see them? Indeed, the
>>results of my MOD study produced maps that seemed to reflect
>>this very point. More UFO reports came from in and around London
>>than from anywhere else, and there were similar clusters around
>>major conurbations.

>I have a routine in the database software that ranks states, the
>DC, and Canadian provinces/territories by raw sightings counts,
>same over population, and same over area. This isn't on my
>website yet, stay tuned.

>On the same map above, compare Arizona to New Mexico. Areas are
>about the same (NM slightly larger than AZ) but AZ has less than
>one quarter the filtered sightings counts per 1000 population as
>New Mexico.

>I don't see any obvious demographic reason for this.

Many years ago when I and the world were young (early 1970s) I
was studing the statistical data in Project Blue Book Special
Report #14. In that publication they present, without comment, a
map showing the USA with grid areas which are 1 degree squares,
i.e., latitude (horizontal) and longitude (vertical) lines
spaced 1 degree apart. Inside each grid square they listed the
number of sightings. I got it into my head that it would be
"neat" to use this to correlate with the population. So I
embarked on a many week long process of estimating the
population in each grid square. Unfortunately, population
estimates in such accessible sources as the yearly alamacs are
given by county within a stae, not by 1 degree squares. So I had
much pain and suffering in estimating the population in 1 degree
squares from data on the population in counties. But I did it,
and reasonably well, I think. Then I located all the military
air bases in the USA in the 1950 time frame.

Now I was able to plot the number of sightings vs population. I
found negligible correlation... in fact the "noise" overwhelmed
any correlation. As I recall, the mst prominent example of non-
correlation was the comparison of the square with Albuquerque NM
in it with Washington, DC or New York or LA, etc. (This was long
before the Uintah basin sightings were collected). In this case
ABQ, with an estimated 200-300,000 people had the same number or
a greater number of sightings than the areas with ten times its
population.

I did find a sort of correlation, howver, between squares with
Military Air Bases (MABs) and the nmber of sightings. The
correlation was not strong, but it certainly appeared that there
were more sightings in the squares with MABs than in the
sightings without, regardless of the population. And one must
keep in mind that many MABs were in the vicinity of large
cities. This was published in a paper Scientific Investigation
of Unidentified Flying Objects (an analysis of SR#14) by the
Center for UFO Studies in the first and third issues of the
Journal of UFO Studies.








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               Re: Close Encounter Yours For $1.3m - Maccabee

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 23:42:33 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 15:19:43 -0500
Subject: Re: Close Encounter Yours For $1.3m - Maccabee


>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 11:57:47 -0800
>Subject: Close Encounter Yours For $1.3m


>Source: The Register

>http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/28/35616.html

>17/02/2004

>Close Encounter yours for $1.3m
>By Lester Haines

>Stay up to date wherever you are, with The Register Mobile

>Blimey they don't half sell some old rubbish on eBay, eh? The
>latest extraordinary item to come to our attention is a close
>encounter video apparently shot in 1998 by someone called
>"Sargel18".

>Of course, there's plenty of this sort of nonsense going down on
>the world's favourite auction site, but the blurb accompanying
>this particular must-have offer is worth a shufti. Here's the
>intro:

>A BRIEF BIO ON SARGEL18: In 1988 a man walked down into his
>basement in his home in Ringwood NJ and sees hundreds of black

"Sargel 18" established the "orbsite" about 8-10 years ago
(www.orbsite.com) to feature his pictures of what I call "flash
orbs":

http://brumac.8k.com/orb_1.html

His website is now sponsored by "Alientel" the first computer
company to protect its customers against diseases that are
transmitted by computer software sold by Microsoft, etc.
Alientel appears to be the latest incarnation of the "American
Computer Company" which claimed 7 -8 years ago that it had proof
that transistors were based on back-engineered alien technology.

<LOL>

Pardon my sidespitting laughter.








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                      Re: 1956 Lunar Path Light - Franz

From: Capt. Alejandro Franz <alfafox.nul>
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 01:18:21 -0700
Fwd Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 15:30:31 -0500
Subject: Re: 1956 Lunar Path Light - Franz


>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 08:28:49 -0500
>Subject: Re: 1956 Lunar Path Light

>>From: Ted Phillips - I.A.I. <archaeoanom.nul-linc.net>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 09:26:21 -0600
>>Subject: Re: 1956 Lunar Path Light

<snip>

>>Those are not stars, they are dust particles and various debris
>>from lying around for 50 years - you need a course on
>>photography, my friend.

>I agree with the dust hypothesis (and some photographic noise, I
>presume). I am puzzled by the extremely bright overexposed(?)
>spot at the center. Without trying to scale the picture
>accurately I would guess that the arc is over 100 miles long.


Hi Bruce,

I also agree with you and Ted about the dust and debris
hypothesis about the star's misinterpretation and it is my
mistake.

I don't agree in your guess of a 100 miles arc longitude because
the bay named SINUS MEDII closer to the 'print's light' measures
350x350Km/212x212Miles. The light spot in the 'print' measures
about 50x50Km/30X30Miles almost the same size of PALLAS crater.
(info bellow SINUS MEDII)

See SINUS MEDII picture:

http://www.alcione.org/1953_FLARE/impact05.jpg

See PALLAS crater and craterlets:
http://www.alcione.org/1953_FLARE/pallas1.jpg
( this image is not very clear but I'll fix it tomorrow)

PROVISIONAL PAGE WITH IMAGES AND DATA
(huge size) http://www.alcione.org/1953_FLARE/

The size of the suspected meteor's that hit the Moon was
approximately 20 meters (65.6 feet) across as Dr. Bonnie J.
Buratti asserted

I posted two hours ago that the light of the 1953 image from Dr.
Stuart is located between the following craterlet points south
of PALLAS crater and north west of BRUCE's crater. It's not a
joke. :)

PALLAS crater
Position:
Longitude: 1.6=B0 West
Latitude: 5.5=B0 North

PALLAS H craterlet
Position:
Longitude: 1.5 =B0 West
Latitude: 04.60 =B0 North

PALLAS B craterlet
Position:
Longitude: 2.6 =B0 West
Latitude: 04.20 =B0 North

PALLAS C craterlet
Position:
Longitude: 1.1 =B0 West
Latitude: 04.50 =B0 North

PALLAS E craterlet
Position:
Longitude: 1.4 =B0 West
Latitude: 04.00 =B0 North

PALLAS F craterlet
Position:
Longitude: 1.3 =B0 West
Latitude: 03.40 =B0 North

PALLAS X craterlet
Position:
Longitude: 3.2 =B0 West
Latitude: 05.20 =B0 North

BRUCE crater
Position:
Longitude: 0.4=B0 East
Latitude: 1.1=B0 North

SINUS MEDII

Type: Bay
Geological period: Imbrian (From -3.85 billions
years to -3.2 billions years) ?

Size:
Dimension: 350x350Km / 212x212Mi
Height: 0m / 0ft
Height/Wide ratio: 0

Description:

Small sea situated to the center of the visible face.
52 000 km2. Broadsided to the South by Rima
Oppolzer and to the East by Rimae Triesnecker.

Observation:

Interest : Pretty interesting formation
Observation period: First Quarter or 6 days after
Full Moon Minimal Instrument: 10x binoculars

Position:

Longitude: 0.0=B0 East
Latitude: 0.0=B0 North
Quadrant: North-East
Area: Moon disk center

-------------------------------------------------------

PALLAS crater

Type: Crater
Geological period: Nectarian (From -3.92 billions years
to -3.85 billions years)

Size:
Dimension: 50x50Km / 30x30Mi
Height: 1260m / 3800ft
Height/Wide ratio: 0.0252

Description:

Damaged circular formation. Forms an interesting couple with
Murchison.

Steep slopes supporting Bode to the North-West Pallas B & E
to the South and crushed by Murchison to the East.

Walls supporting the craterlet Pallas A to the North-West and
Pallas H to the South.

Flat floor filled with lava in communication to the North-East with
that of Murchison. Central mountain. Hills wrinkle ridges and
craterlets.

Observation:

Interest : Very interesting formation
Observation period: First Quarter or 6 days after Full Moon
Minimal Instrument: 50 mm refractor

Position:

Longitude: 1.6=B0 West
Latitude: 5.5=B0 North
Quadrant: North-East
Area: Moon disk center

---------------------------------------------------------------

I used a nice program 'Virtual Moon Data' that you can download
and is FREE at: http://astrosurf.com/avl/prog/avlsetup.exe

Best regards,

Capt. Alejandro Franz
director.nul







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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   Feb > Feb 18

                       Re: Excalibur Briefing - Novak

From: John Novak <john.nul>
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 00:26:40 -0800
Fwd Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 15:36:38 -0500
Subject: Re: Excalibur Briefing - Novak


>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 22:24:43 +0000
>Subject: Re: Excalibur Briefing

>>From: Joachim Koch <lists.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 18:01:01 +0100
>>Subject: Re: Excalibur Briefing

>>>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 22:11:23 +0000
>>>Subject: Re: Excalibur Briefing

><snip>

>>All facts, all documented. Come on, you surely know about.

>>So how do you feel?

>I feel great, but you must be quite ill to entertain such quaint
>and off-the-wall ideas. But what do I know; I have two older
>brothers who graduated from Yale, which must in your
>conspiratorial circles totally disqualify me from being honest
>and straightforward. There are two American English words that
>aptly describe your views presented here, and they rhyme with
>equine and excrement.


No no no, Dick. You don't understand. Joachim is not the one
entertaining the ideas of these groups. He's the one reporting
on the facts.

I can see how you would confuse the two. Scull & Bones boys do
seem to be off-the-wall, quaint and full of equine excrement. In
fact, it would not surprise me in the slightest to learn they
regularly eat the stuff as part of their happy rituals after
digging up dead people and telling all their dirty sex secrets.

I'm curious, did you hear of this particular aspect of their
ritual by association?

Also, you seem to be confusing "goes to school at Yale" with
membership into an elite ritualistic cult that happens to have
residence on the school.

And since you feel that all stories such as the one I gave about
harassment to UFO researchers and experiencers is nothing more
than a paranoid fairy tale since I can't prove it, please tell
me just exactly how I could prove it and to whom I am supposed
to report this to even if I could?

Should I just keep my mouth shut, Dick? Let the "professionals"
handle it? Report it to the Attorney General?

Nope. Nowhere to go with that but places like this List, Dick.
And gosh... wouldn't you know, someone responds and says they've
experienced the same kind of treatment.

Do you know that, if nothing else, hearing from just one other
person saying that they have experienced similar things has
really helped me to continue with this research, Dick. Do you
think that's worth anything knowing that you aren't completely
insane just because you experienced something that left no
material facts behind?







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   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   Feb > Feb 18

                     Re: 1956 Lunar Path Light - Hebert

From: Amy Hebert <vanguard.nul>
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 12:56:32 -0600
Fwd Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 16:22:04 -0500
Subject: Re: 1956 Lunar Path Light - Hebert


>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 17:30:36 -0500
>Subject: Re: 1956 Lunar Path Light

>>From: James Oberg <joberg.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 07:18:23 -0600
>>Subject: Re: 1956 Lunar Path Light

>>>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 17:11:45 -0500
>>>Subject: Re: 1956 Lunar Path Light - Velez

>>>Has anyone mentioned the possibility that the bright object in
>>>the photograph may be 'intra-atmospheric' and nowhere near the
>>>surface of the moon at all?

>>Am I the only one curious about missing data such as date/time
>>of the image and the reported angular rate across the face of
>>the Moon? Seems to me that obtaining such information would go a
>>long way towards constraining the speculations that have been
>>offered.

>Herr Oberg,

>Ya know, part of the reason why I always call you 'Herr Oberg'
>has to do with your 'brown-shirt' attitude toward myself and
>others in regard to force feeding us what _you_ think we should
>or should not be saying.

>Instead of being so concerned about "constraining" my comments
>maybe you should pay some attention to problems that are closer
>to home, such as dealing with your own serious, (not to mention
>rather annoying) 'control' issues.

>If you were raised as a Christian you'll recognize the reference
>I'm sure:

Dear John, James, List:

I've been so busy lately that I've had to delete many messages
without reading them just to keep my mail box from becoming
overloaded (wish I had the time to read them all but I don't).
Today I took off work and to give myself a break from all the
work I have to do (income tax, FAFSA's, job apps) I thought I'd
treat myself to a little look-see into the world of UFO's, etc.

I opened this message and found myself scratching my head
wondering what the heck was going on. I found John's question
about the object possibly being "intra-atmospheric" a logical
proposal. And I thought Mr. Oberg's suggestion about finding the
missing data (date, time, angular rate) apropos as well. So, (I
wondered) why are we now discussing Mr. Oberg's nationality, the
color of his shirt (i.e. "attitude") and control issues? What
has all this got to do with what seemed to be a reasonable
discussion moving along about an unknown object or light in a
photograph of the moon taken in 1956?

In order to catch up, I went to the Updates archives and
followed this discussion ("1956 Lunar Path Light") originally
posted by Mr. Ted Phillips on Saturday, February 14, 2004 to
today's posts. Some people outright dismissed the photograph as
a hoax while others began calculating distances, "arc's", sizes,
etc. with almost no data to go on except the photograph and the
information relayed by the photographer. We did much the same
thing with the Whittlesea UFO photograph.

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with speculating and
calculating but why is it necessary to berate someone for asking
pertinent questions? Both John's and Mr. Oberg's questions were
important to the discussion. Why do so many interesting and
productive discussions degenerate into name-calling, accusations
and word-fights?

Most of the people on this List, I presume, are here to learn
about UFO's and what's going on (aka - the truth). This list
alone has a tremendous concentration of educated and
professional participants (skeptics and believers alike). I
often picture all of us sitting around a table as in a board
meeting, face-to-face, and respond accordingly.

In a professional setting, many of the tiffs and fights we see
on this List would not be openly tolerated (of course the
politics would remain as an undercurrent). Pointing fingers and
calling people names, as well as other immature tactics, is
counter-productive and a waste of time. If their jobs depended
on their abilities to discuss without fighting, how many on this
list would find themselves unemployed? ;> (Poor Errol. What he
must go through!)

If we listen, _really_ listen, to what each person is saying and
pretend we are talking face-to-face rather than keyboard-to-
screen, we can learn so much from each other. Extend the same
respect to others as you would have extended to yourself. Focus
on the issues not the emotions. And, above all, remember there
are no sides in the search for the truth. There may be many
paths but there is only one truth. We are all in this together.


IMHO

A. Hebert








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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   Feb > Feb 18

                          Magonia Supplement No. 49

From: John Rimmer <jrimmer.nul>
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 19:09:15 +0000
Fwd Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 16:25:32 -0500
Subject: Magonia Supplement No. 49


Here for your edification is Magonia Supplement 49. The main
items in this issue are John Harney's review of "Sight Unseen"
by Budd Hopkins, and Martin Kottmeyer counterintutively
questioning the theory that media publicity creates UFO flaps.

It is also available as an HTML document on the Magonia website
at:

http://www.magonia.demon.co.uk/arc/00/ms49.htm

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

EDITORIAL

For many UFO enthusiasts, one of their chief frustrations is
that mainstream science does not take them seriously. One would
think that the best solution to this problem would be to make
their research methods and theorising rigorously logical and
scientific. But no, the favoured procedure is to denounce the
more outrageous ufologists, who tour the crazy conferences,
telling delighted audiences what they obviously want to hear,
and giving their backing to those who seem slightly less crazy,
if only because they are slightly less flamboyant. That these
"scientific" ufologists are not really sincere in their stated
desire for objectivity always becomes obvious as they react with
rage to any attempts to subject their favourite UFO cases, or
the theories of their favourite fellow ufologists, to critical
examination

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

KEYHOE AND THE 'MODEST SURGE' OF 1950

Martin S. Kottmeyer

NOW WE GIVE evidence for probably the funniest paradox of the
theory that flaps are caused by media, introduced by a quote we
take from Philip Klass's UFO Explained (Vintage, 1974, p. 322.)


=85during the five-year period from 1947 to 1951, the number of
UFO reports submitted to the USAF averaged fewer than fifteen
per month. This included a modest surge during 1950 when Donald
Keyhoe, the principal early publicizer of the extraterrestrial
hypothesis, published his first UFO book, filled with
extravagant claims and charges of a high-level government
conspiracy to withhold the "truth from the public." [his
italics, as usual]

The book had its first test market release in Midwest bookstores
on 27 May and had general release on 5 June . (Loren Gross,
UFOs: A History: 1950: April - July, p. 51)

What leaps out at you when you look at the Blue Book numbers of
1950 is that May and June are actually the two lightest months
of that year. This is even less than that magically small
average of the 1947-51 period - fifteen.

1950 Blue Book tally by month

Jan   15
Feb   13
Mar   41
Apr   17
May   8
Jun   9
Jul   21
Aug   21
Sep   19
Oct   17
Nov   14
Dec   15

Uh-oh, this looks bad, you think. But then you remember that
Keyhoe's book was actually just a fleshing out of an article he
did for True magazine several months earlier. It was the article
that was the big sensation. UFO historian David Jacobs, in fact,
said of it:

This issue of True was the most widely sold and read in the
magazine's history. Indeed, it was one of the most widely read
and discussed articles in publishing history.

(The UFO Controversy in America Indiana University Press, 1975/
Signet, September 1976, pp. 49-50)

Loren Gross's account of the article's release concurs it
generated great excitement. Frank Edwards got an early copy of
the article on 21 December 1949 and was so impressed, he leaned
on True's editor to let him break the story, despite a prior
agreement with Walter Winchell letting him be first. Edwards's
broadcast generated enough interest to lead to an Associated
Press article the following afternoon. On the 24th the magazine
hit the streets and Winchell plugged it on his broadcast. This
gave the article international attention and an aura of
journalistic acceptance rarely given the subject. (Loren Gross
UFOs: A History: Volume 2: 1949, pp. 63-4)

Yet, the report numbers for January and February similarly fail
to rise above fifteen. It isn't until March that the 'modest
surge' appears. It may be tempting to blame this on seasonal
factors. December and January are typically light months for UFO
activity presumably because of the cold and cloudiness. But then
we are back to why there was no reaction to the release of the
book in June as reading Klass would lead you to expect.

Curtis Peebles notes that True followed up Keyhoe's article with
a second article in their March issue penned by Commander R.B.
McLaughlin, the former commander of White Sands Proving Ground.
He recounted a 24 April 1949 incident that he was convinced was
a flying saucer from another planet piloted by animate
intelligent beings. His claim ends up reading:

The twin articles sparked a wave of publicity and sightings
during early 1950.
(Watch the Skies, Smithsonian Institution, 1994, p. 44)

The most spectacular case of this period was the Farmington, New
Mexico incident of 17 March 1950 where thousands of saucers were
seen by inhabitants. It was eventually blamed on fragments of a
burst and frozen Skyhook balloon. In the next paragraph,
however, the twin articles became a trio. In the April issue,
"mailed in late March" Peebles adds, the magazine carried seven
photos of flying saucers, albeit their quality was self-
evidently low.

By the end of spring 1950, flying saucers had received several
months of steady publicity in the wake of the Keyhoe article.
(ibid., p. 44)

All very informative, but the puzzle is why reports are
concentrated in March and by the end of the spring numbers are
dropping. Only MacLaughlin's piece is set close to the start of
the March surge. Why do the other two articles fail to create
individual surges of their own. Worse, MacLaughlin's article is
the least exciting of the three. Still worse, the biggest story
about flying saucers in March had nothing to do with McLaughlin.

On 9 March 1950, R.L. Dimmick's tale of seeing a 23 inch long
corpse taken from a crashed saucer around Mexico City hit the
scene. As Loren Gross tells it:

Teletypes sent the story across the nation. Radio stations
filled the airwaves. This triggered scores of requests for more
information about the alleged amazing event. The Chicago
Tribune complained its phone lines became tied into knots. The
Pentagon came under siege by newsmen seeking details but the
annoyed High Command professed ignorance=85 (UFOs: A History:
1950: January -March pp. 37-8)

Time magazine, in its 17 April 1950 issue, was driven to comment
on the frenzy Dimmick stirred up with his story, confirming it
as the prominent story of this period. When you place R.L.
Dimmick's tale on the time chart, it looks ideal to be the
likely cause of the March surge. This solution has its own
interesting aspects. Dimmick's tale was basically confessed as a
hoax and has no defenders these days. Yet this false tale
generates a minor flap of reports that includes a notorious
case, Farmington, defended by sixties UFO icon James McDonald
and still accepted as mysterious by certain ufologists.

I automatically sympathise with those who feel this is all quite
counterintuitive. How could Keyhoe's writings, whose seminal
importance and popularity is accepted by all, not have created
an important flap? Why, in fact, do the numbers seem to go down
in the days after their first release? How could the Dimmick
tale, whose present-day obscurity is well-deserved, have caused
this 'modest surge'? Yet that is what the evidence points to. A
funny paradox, indeed, if you think media attention is the
critical factor in the creation of UFO flaps.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

LITERARY CRITICISM

John Harney gets infuriatingly supercilious about a recent
addition to the UFO abduction literature

Budd Hopkins and Carol Rainey, Sight Unseen: Science, UFO
Invisibility and Transgenic Beings, Atria Books, New York, 2003
There are several reasons why the work of Budd Hopkins attracts
criticism and the principal one is the fact that he evidently
regards abduction narratives as being true accounts of real,
physical events. In his book on the Linda Napolitano abduction
case, this led to all manner of absurdities, including the then
secretary-general of the United Nations being asked some very
silly questions. This new book is just as crazy, even though his
wife, Carol Rainey, has attempted to give it a veneer of
respectability by giving snippets of information about
developments in applied science and arguing that the fantastic
details of UFO abduction stories are not in conflict with basic
scientific principles.

Hopkins insists that UFO encounter reports are not the results
of hallucinations, sleep paralysis, or hoaxes. "The skilled UFO
researcher has learned how to identify such mundane
explanations, thus avoiding pursuit of any vague, dubious, and
unsupported accounts." The main problem here is that the
abductees get to know what Hopkins expects of them. If he
considers their cases important they are repeatedly questioned,
as well as some of them attending his abductee support group.

We are told that: "Out of the mass of credible reports that
remain, the supporting physical, medical and photographic
evidence is so consistent that none of the debunkers'
psychological or psychosocial theories can begin to explain it
away. Over the years, for better or for worse, I have come to
believe that UFO abductions are real, event-level occurrences."
Of course, physical, medical and photographic evidence does
exist in connection with many of these stories, but, as Hopkins
carefully avoids pointing out, there are always mundane
explanations which can be considered to account for such
evidence.

What appears to be a new departure for Hopkins is his discussion
of extraordinary accounts, which do not fit in with the rather
stereotyped abduction narrative which he has developed in co-
operation with David Jacobs and a few other investigators. This
time he gives us some stories reminiscent of John Keel's The
Mothman Prophecies. He doesn't mention Keel of course, as he is
an "unperson" in certain sections of American ufology.

These stories are interesting, but Hopkins's determination to
take them as being accurate accounts of real physical events
results in much absurd theorising and pseudoscientific
speculation. One of them concerns the abductee Katharina Wilson
who told Hopkins about an occasion when she flew from Portland,
Oregon to Chicago to speak at a UFO conference. Two of the
organisers of the conference had arranged to meet her at the
airport. Although her plane was on time she was about an hour
late in meeting the organisers. Hopkins, of course, attributes
this "missing time" to a probable abduction, with the result
that the story becomes more convoluted and complicated than the
original report. It seems that Wilson started to feel somewhat
confused while still on the plane. When she got off she visited
the women's toilet near the gate and allegedly had trouble
washing her hands. The washbasins had automatic taps operated by
sensors, but when she put her hand under them nothing happened,
although the other women there had no trouble. She felt panicky
and asked a woman: "Am I invisible or something?" The woman did
not answer, which she thought very odd, though the most likely
explanation is that the woman thought she was crazy.

Two chapters are devoted to discussing this case, one written by
Hopkins and the other obviously by his wife who writes: "In
looking at Katharina Wilson's troubling, confusing experience at
O'Hare Airport, we may speculate about an abduction, or a
changeable human energy field, even the possibility of
teleportation, although we currently possess a limited knowledge
of such subjects." So it seems we can indulge in any sort of
fantastic speculation apart from the obvious one that Wilson was
suffering from one of her mental fugues which caused her to lose
an hour by wandering around aimlessly. This story will cause
more sensible readers to wonder, not about a "changeable human
energy field" (whatever that might be), but whether Wilson is
fit to be allowed out on her own.

As for the taps, Carol Rainey did some research on these devices
but probably didn't manage to get details of all the variations
on the theme of taps and other plumbing items worked by sensors.
She has assumed that the taps in the toilet visited by Katharina
Wilson were operated by holding one's hands under them, but I
have encountered a design in which the sensor is let into the
tiles above the basin and you have to touch it to turn the tap
on. If they were of this type and if Wilson, in her confused
state, failed to notice, then this explains the phenomenon. But
don't tell Hopkins, as he doesn't like mundane explanations.

We also have the fascinating story of the "phantom support
group", which is supported by "four credible witnesses". These
witnesses were actually two married couples, and Hopkins
interviewed the two men separately and the two women together.
Hopkins tells us that the accounts he received agreed with one
another but he doesn't give us the separate accounts; we are
merely given his interpretation of what he was told. Also, the
alleged events had taken place some years previously.

It is said that two ufologists, "Dennis" and "Don" had produced
a videotape of their investigation of an abduction case in their
area and had presented it at a meeting which was open to the
public and was attended by 15 to 20 people. A week later they
received a call from a man who said he had been at the meeting,
and he invited them to a meeting of his abductee support group.

This was a very odd meeting, in an apartment block, where
Dennis, Don and their wives were greeted by "a very strange
'blank-looking', rather short man . . . " The other people
present were also described as "blank-looking". The leader of
the group berated Don for making the video of the abduction
investigation. When questioned he claimed never to have heard of
Budd Hopkins or David Jacobs.

One of the strange persons present at the meeting was a
"mannequin like female whom they regarded as almost unnaturally
beautiful". She suddenly stood up. "As she did so, both men said
that she seemed to metamorphose into an incredibly ugly,
inhuman-looking creature with large eyes and sparse hair. It was
this metamorphosis that triggered their speedy exit from the
apartment."

This is all very strange, and very interesting if taken as an
example of modern folklore, although Hopkins obviously expects
us to believe that the incident really happened as described.
However, there are certain details which one would reasonably
expect to see included in such a story. Why are we not told the
name of the town where the incident took place? Why is there no
mention of any attempt being made to identify the owner of the
apartment or the person who rented it on the day of the
incident? Who are these keen ufologists who sell videos and hold
public meetings but insist on remaining incognito in the story?

We are told that the incident occurred in the "early 1990s", so
there has been plenty of time for confabulation, in addition to
Hopkins's editing of the accounts into a smoothly written
narrative. This would not matter if the authors did not regard
this as a description of a real event. They just cannot see how
their total rejection of the psychosocial approach to such
narratives gives rise to absurd speculations masquerading as
scientific theories.

There is much more that could be written about Hopkins's
technique of interpreting the weirdest UFO narratives literally,
in defiance of basic scientific principles and common sense. No
doubt he will respond to criticism of this book as he did with
his account of the Napolitano case (Witnessed), either by
ignoring it, or by indulging in character assassinations of his
more persistent critics.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Reviews by Peter Rogerson

Dave Blevins, UFO Directory International, McFarland and Co,
2003. =A328.00

Whereas the first edition of this directory published 10 years
ago was a privately published affair, this edition has been
produced by one of the leading publishers of specialist
reference books. Another main change is that most of the entries
contain e-mail addresses and web sites which were barely a gleam
in the early 1990s.

Most entries give name, address, telephone number, e-mail and
web sites for the various organisations, and sometimes give
publications and date of foundation. Most of the main entries
give a synopsis of the group's activities either supplied direct
or taken from their website. One omission which can be
significant in this field is that the names of the "leaders" of
the group are omitted and often have to be worked out from the
e-mail address.

It has to be said that there is an awful lot of padding; most of
the USA entries are for local branches of MUFON, and similar
listing of local branches pads out the Italian section. More
serious is the inclusion of the Aetherius Society, which surely
is a religious cult and not a UFO organisation of any kind.
Perhaps significantly the British section seems to have the
largest quota of unverified entries, some of of which seem to be
the same organisation under various incarnations. The perceptive
reader will also find it an amusing game working out which of
the UK organisations listed exist primarily in the fertile
imagination of Tim Hepple/Matthews.

But at least Magonia is listed, which is a rarity in these
things.

-----

John F. Moffitt, Picturing Extraterrestrials: Alien Images in
Modern Mass Culture, Prometheus, 2003

Presented with a book entitled Picturing Extraterrestrials
written by a retired professor of the history of art, you would
probably expect a glossy book full of gorgeous colour
illustrations of aliens taken from book and magazine covers,
film posters and the whole gamut of modern kitsch. What you get,
apart from 16 pages of black and white illustrations, is
mountains of text, discussing alien abduction narratives from a
generally sceptical viewpoint. Some good points are made, and
there are attempts at humour.

There is no doubt that this a wide ranging study; not many UFO
books will cover the influence of Swedenborg and Eliphas Levi on
symbolist art in the same pages which discuss the genesis of the
American cultural icon Betty Crocker (don't worry, fellow Brits,
I'm as baffled by this name as you are). The thesis seems to be
that the the abduction narratives are part of post-modernist
commercial culture; they are capitalist commodities, phenomena
of the world of TV and other pop kitsch images.

This is interspersed with general sceptical comments on the
abduction scene, and UFO history (of course Americocentric, and
containing a number of careless howlers). These are often
sensible enough but they have been made many times before, and
hardly seem the province of the art historian.

The cover describes this book as "accessible", but I am afraid
that this description is somewhat of a terminological
inexactitude; reading it was rather like swimming through
treacle. With a good, slashing editor, parts would have made
interesting Magonia articles, but the chapters just don't add up
to a coherent book. Why cannot Prometheus Books employ good
quality literary editors to make the manuscripts they receive
actually readable? The feeling is that anyone wearing an "I Love
Randi" badge can walk into the office and get their manuscripts
published regardless of literary merit.

-----

Stephen Webb, If the Universe is Teeming with Aliens, Where is
Everybody?: Fifty Solutions to the Fermi Paradox and the Problem
of Extraterrestrial Life, Copernicus and Praxis, 2002. $27.50

William C Burger, Perfect Planet, Clever Species, How Unique Are
We? Prometheus Books, 2003

Two books taking a critical look at the claims for
extraterrestrial intelligence which will offer little succour to
supporters of the ETH. Webb looks at a wide range of
explanations for the absence of the ETs or their signals,
ranging from the odd to the profound. He examines and largely
rejects most of the reasons given as to why ETs might actually
exist but wouldn't or couldn't be detected. Instead he sees the
absence of their evidence as pretty good evidence for their
absence. He argues that this absence is probably due to a
variety of factors, acting as a kind of sieve gradually reducing
the chances

As I argued in Magonia, Webb suggests that the belief in ETs is
a kind of arrogance masquerading as humility, the belief that
our kind of intelligence and the qualities we value in ourselves
have universal significance, and that other animals are somehow
failed animals. Aliens will be themselves, products of their own
evolutionary histories and not either surrogate or idealised
human beings and will not be pursuing human projects.

Burger comes to more or less the same conclusion after his rapid
survey of the development of life, humankind and scientific
culture on earth. For both authors the road to anthropomorphic,
spaceship and telescope building intelligences is littered with
too many astronomical, biological and cultural hurdles to be
anything but extremely rare.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


O D D S  A N D  E N D S

Laughlin laugh-in.

Anyone who wonders why the world of science refuses to take
ufology seriously has only to glance at the notices announcing
UFO conferences. For sheer absurdity they take some beating. The
Laughlin conference - 13th International UFO Congress - is to be
held from 8 to 14 February. Some of the delights which those
attending can look forward to include:

"WYNN FREE & DAVID WILCOCK - Wynn has done the hard research,
connecting the dots that show us a very persuasive picture of
David Wilcock as 'the reincarnated Edgar Cayce'. David has
reluctantly come to accept his past life history as Cayce, and
is now ready to advance both his personal karma (and ours) with
his new mission." What relevance this might have to UFOs is not
stated.

"RICH DOLAN - 'The Greatest Show in the Quadrant' - Humanity's
Impending Flame-Out and the Presence of Others: Our global
civilization is perched at the brink of collapse. How does the
existence of alien intelligence fit in? What might be their
perspectives and interests in human civilization's impending
flame-out? Anything we can do?" This lecture is followed by the
Lunch Break. Shouldn't this be the Out-to- lunch Break?

"WENDELLE STEVENS - Will present the case of Andreas Wiesengrun
from Germany, who willingly went aboard an ET ship for 3 days of
indoctrination. The 6 species aboard took turns showing him the
origin of Earth's humanity, and how we were genetically upgraded
to where we are now. They showed him where we are going when we
finally mature enough to leave the nest (our planet) and join
the sea of humanity freely living forever in space."

Santiago Yturria Garza (Mexico) is going to "present two brand
new cases from the UK". However, it seems that no British
ufologist is scheduled to present new cases from Mexico.

Also attending this circus will be Budd Hopkins and his wife
Carol Rainey, to plug their book Sight Unseen. Hopkins is always
moaning about scientists not taking him seriously, but if he
persists in attending events where most of the speakers are even
crazier than he is, then what can he expect?

-----

Even funnier.

Yet another feast of absurdity is promised at a conference to be
held in New Jersey on 27 and 28 March, sponsored by The UFO/ET
World Traveling Museum and Library of Scientific Anomalies.
Speakers and their topics are:

Jaime Maussan - from Mexico, the Top News Investigator of TV "60
minutes" discusses Ongoing Investigations of UFOs & ET News.

Jay Soloman - Contactee from the Pleiades Star System for 11
years in the 1990s discusses his experiences.

Vince DiPietro - From the Goddard Space Flight Center and author
of "Unusual Martian Surface Features" shows us more unusual Mars
features.

T. Peter Park, PhD discusses Pre-1947 UFO Sightings & CEIIIs
among other things.

Rosemary Eileen Guiley - discusses Vampires from Outer Space.

Michael Salla, PhD - discusses UFOs & ETs in World Politics.

Tom Van Flanders, PhD - discusses Life on Mars - More Anomalies,
Scientific Evidence for Life on Mars.

Anthony & Lynn Volpe - discuss How the Space People Interact
With Us & Their Own Experiences.

Any comment would be superfluous.

-----

Off his trolley.

Some years ago we published some items in Magonia about the
mysterious ticket eater who apparently haunted the tramways of
western Europe. This was an urban legend, but in recent years
some new tramways have been constructed in the British Isles and
the bizarre stories concerning them are usually literally true
rather than mythical. Like most forms of public transport the
trams are subject to the unwelcome attentions of window-
scratchers, graffiti artists, and other vandals and
troublemakers. But there seems to be something about trams which
makes some of them go to extremes. Here is a good example, from
a website conducted by Stephen Parascandolo (http://www.croydon-
tramlink.co.uk):

"On Friday 7th November, in the morning rush hour, a graffiti
artist was hard at work on a tram travelling eastbound from
Croydon to Elmers End. The driver was asked to get the culprit
to leave the tram at Blackhorse Lane, which eventually took
around 5 minutes once he realised the tram wasn't going anywhere
and the Police were nearby.

"However, he jumped onto a Croydon bound tram from Beckenham
Junction which was packed and pushed his way around trying to
graffiti as much as possible. With a major commotion on board,
it was decided to take 2548 out of service at East Croydon so
the Police could deal with the matter. Having unloaded the tram
at East Croydon, the culprit was still hard at work when the
Police arrived. They then had their work cut out as he went
berserk whilst on the floor being handcuffed and once in the
Police van tried his hardest to turn it over by rocking it from
side to side."

-----

Tiger woman.

Fifty people were arrested in Qom, India, as police broke up a
crowd that had assembled to watch the rumoured execution of a
half-woman, half tigress, on 9 November. Police told the crowd
the rumour was false, but they smashed windows in several
buildings as they attempted to disperse them. (The Daily
Telegraph, 10 November 2003)

-----

The husband in the bathroom.

A Turkish woman locked her rich husband naked in the bathroom
for three years, claiming that he was mentally disturbed,
according to the newspaper Hurriyet on 10 November.

-----

Orhan Babacutu, aged 41, was found traumatised, sitting on the
shower tiles next to the lavatory, with a bowl on the floor for
his food. His wife, Kevser, faces criminal charges. Mr Babacutu
said: "Her goal was to make me sick so that I die and she
inherits my fortune." He was freed after his mother called the
police.(The Daily Telegraph, 11 November 2003)

-----

The case of the cuddly goose.

When Van Thinh Le, from Vietnam, appeared before Barkingside
magistrates, charged with causing unnecessary suffering to a
wild animal, a Canada goose, Mark Jones, prosecuting for the
RSPCA, said that Thinh Le was caught with the goose under his
jacket in Wanstead Park, London. "The defendant opened his coat
and the goose fell.

"It lay motionless for some time before it was able to make its
way to the water. Mr Le said, 'I like to cuddle these animals. I
didn't realise this was against the law.' The concern of the
RSPCA is the reality that this bird was being taken for the
pot."

In mitigation, Robert Rye, defending Mr Le, said that goose
cuddling was a Vietnamese custom, and the birds were not taken
for the pot. Having pleaded guilty, Mr Le was told to pay =A3400
costs and given a two-year conditional discharge. The presiding
magistrate warned him not to try cuddling geese again.

Enquiries to the Vietnamese Embassy in London failed to elicit
any comments. (David Sapstead, 'Goose cuddle is a flight of
fancy', The Daily Telegraph, 5 December 2003)


--
John Rimmer
Magonia Magazine
www.magonia.demon.co.uk/arc/00/newmag.htm








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   Feb > Feb 18

                         Re: Off-Season UFOs - Hall

From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 20:28:59 +0000
Fwd Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 16:27:27 -0500
Subject: Re: Off-Season UFOs - Hall


>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 22:17:44 -0500
>Subject: Re: Off-Season UFOs

>>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 16:44:10 -0800
>>Subject: Re: Off-Season UFOs

>>>From: Nick Pope <nick.nul>
>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 11:10:46 -0000
>>>Subject: Re: Off-Season UFOs

>>>We need to factor in data on population density. If more UFOs
>>>are seen in a particular area, might it not reflect the fact
>>>that there are more people there to see them? Indeed, the
>>>results of my MOD study produced maps that seemed to reflect
>>>this very point. More UFO reports came from in and around London
>>>than from anywhere else, and there were similar clusters around
>>>major conurbations.

>>I have a routine in the database software that ranks states, the
>>DC, and Canadian provinces/territories by raw sightings counts,
>>same over population, and same over area. This isn't on my
>>website yet, stay tuned.

>>On the same map above, compare Arizona to New Mexico. Areas are
>>about the same (NM slightly larger than AZ) but AZ has less than
>>one quarter the filtered sightings counts per 1000 population as
>>New Mexico.

>>I don't see any obvious demographic reason for this.

>Many years ago when I and the world were young (early 1970s) I
>was studing the statistical data in Project Blue Book Special
>Report #14. In that publication they present, without comment, a
>map showing the USA with grid areas which are 1 degree squares,
>i.e., latitude (horizontal) and longitude (vertical) lines
>spaced 1 degree apart. Inside each grid square they listed the
>number of sightings.

<snip>

>Now I was able to plot the number of sightings vs population. I
>found negligible correlation... in fact the "noise" overwhelmed
>any correlation. As I recall, the mst prominent example of non-
>correlation was the comparison of the square with Albuquerque NM
>in it with Washington, DC or New York or LA, etc. (This was long
>before the Uintah basin sightings were collected). In this case
>ABQ, with an estimated 200-300,000 people had the same number or
>a greater number of sightings than the areas with ten times its
>population.

Bruce & List,

In my forthcoming report on the 1966-67 UFO sighting wave for
the Fund for UFO Research (hopefully before June), I have
plotted the sightings vs. U.S. Census Divisions with the help of
a graphic artist, using now readily available data from the
Census Bureau. There are a couple of areas that slightly depart
from a straight population correlation.


 - Dick









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   Feb > Feb 18

                           Can People Go To Mars?

From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul>
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 15:47:34 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
Fwd Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 16:28:21 -0500
Subject: Can People Go To Mars?


Hi Everyone!

The effects of high levels of radiation on astronauts' health
during and after a long space flight to Mars and back is still
not known.

The NASA Science News article below suggests ways of minimizing
the total amount of radiation the crew would be exposed to
through the use of different materials not currently used in the
construction of spacecraft and possibly the redesign of these
spacecraft so that the crew living quarters are shielded by the
radiation absorbing liquid hydrogen in the fuel tanks.

http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2004/17feb_radiation.htm?list100309

What I found particularly interesting was a related story (see
end of the NASA article) about the "phantom astronaut" that was
onboard the International Space Station for four months
recently. This phantom astronaut was partially human and part
machine and was used to measure and study the radiation threat
to astronauts on the proposed long duration interplanetary space
flights.

Trivia minded space flight enthusiasts would be interested to
know that back in 1990 'Aviation Week & Space Technology', also
sometimes known as 'Aviation Leak...' created much interest over
their "Human Skull Launched Into Space On Secret Military
Shuttle Flight" article. The actually identity of the person the
human head came from and the identity of the person(s) that flew
in space as the "phantom astronaut" was not known but very
likely came from India where many human skeletons that are used
in medical schools originate.

Since much of the radiation in deep space consists of fast
moving charged particles that come from the Sun and we know that
a magnetic field deflects moving charged particles, if we
generate a strong enough magnetic field in the Sun pointing end
of our spacecraft, we should be able to create a radiation-free
cone around the crew. Since some UFOs are known to have caused
car engines to stop working, electric lights to turn off and
other types of electrical interference, this suggests that they
are interplanetary spacecraft with strong magnetic fields around
them to protect their biological operators from the same
radiation that threatens our astronauts.


Nick Balaskas








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   Feb > Feb 18

                       Re: Excalibur Briefing - Hatch

From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 01:08:05 -0800
Fwd Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 16:33:03 -0500
Subject: Re: Excalibur Briefing - Hatch


>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 22:35:19 +0000
>Subject: Re: Excalibur Briefing

>>From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 10:57:49 -0800
>>Subject: Re: Excalibur Briefing

>>>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 14:06:02 +0000
>>>Subject: Re: Excalibur Briefing

>>>As a former MUFON editor I was the recipient of some of
>>>Bearden's impenetrable, "scientific" writings. They were, as far
>>>as I could tell, all "trappings" and no substance. In short,
>>>classic pseudoscience. Pretentious and chockalok with vast
>>>arrays of mathematical symbols. Science at least attempts to
>>>explain, or to hypothesize and theorize, not obscure and
>>>obfuscate.

>>Richard,

>>By "Pretentious and chockalok (chockablock) with vast arrays of
>>mathematical symbols" do you mean you couldn't understand it, so
>>you considered it crap and then dismissed it?

>>Maybe you couldn't understand it because it was you who couldn't
>>understand the science.

><snip>

>>Reducing Our Dependence on Fossil Fuels
>>T. E. Bearden

> <snip>

>Ed,

>I was a scientific philosophy major and a mathematics minor at
>Tulane University, so I understand the difference between clear,
>logical exposition and doubletalk. Yes, I do see "weird science"
>in this example of his writing. I see lots of what we used to
>call "buzz words" and "buzz phrases" which sound impressive but
>really say nothing meaningful at all. For example:

>Broken symmetry
>Dipolar ensemble
>Virtual photon energy

>I also see someone who obviously believes that a long tradition
>of science is wrong and he is right when it comes to generating
>something out of nothing, and a lot of wishful thinking cloaked
>in pseudoscience.

>I remain very underwhelmed.



Hello Dick and Ed:

Here is a deep, detailed study of some of the many many claims
made by T.E. Bearden. I'm glad someone else went to all the
work.

 http://www.phact.org/e/z/BeardenReview.htm

Bearden claimed the Russians shot down the space shuttle in both
instances, 1986 and 2003 for example. That isn't dealt with at
length, rather his free energy stuff going back 10 years.

What's notable is Bearden's consistent appeal to the fringe
people, untutored in math and science, and careful avoidance of
anyone qualified to test or validate his claims.

Some of the same people who complain Ufology is not being taken
seriously, seem to swallow and even promote every crank, mystic
and snake-oil salesman that comes down the pike.

Lets all take a big guess why.

If there is an 'invisible college', it isn't just to avoid a ufo
stigma, socially or professionally. Part of the reason may well
be to simply avoid those so open minded that their brains fell
out.

Try to imagine what a complete and utter drag it is to see the
same sorts of BS trotted out over and over.

I should add that the www.phact.org site (URL above) is very pro
'free-energy', and even has an FE email list up. I like one of
their links, The Museum of Unworkable Devices!

 http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/museum/unwork.htm

Other links and ideas are more hopeful if less amusing. We all
would like alternative energy sources, myself especially.

Phact.org has no use for T.E. Bearden however.

Forgive me if I busy myself with other matters.


Best wishes

- Larry Hatch








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   Feb > Feb 18

                   Re: 60's Pilot Sighting Reports - Hatch

From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 03:25:18 -0800
Fwd Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 16:34:05 -0500
Subject: Re: 60's Pilot Sighting Reports - Hatch


>From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO <hbccufo.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 13:55:39 -0800
>Subject: 60's Pilot Sighting Reports

>Hi List

>I have a couple of new reports to type up, just received
>February 16, 2004. But below are two interesting pilot reports I
>received today. Enjoy.

>Pilot Sighting Reports

>Hello Brian,

>The gentleman wishes to remain anonymous, which I always
>respect. Please do not ask me for the fellows contact
>information as I will not be giving it out. Thank you, Brian

>Here is a report on my sightings, in the air and on the
>ground.You may use them as you wish.

>My first sighting happened in 1961, on a trip from Tampa, Fla.
>to Atlanta, Ga. It was a night flight and we had leveled off at
>our assigned altitude and were approximately 40 miles north of
>Tampa. We suddenly observed a flight of four star-like objects
>heading south, high above us and to the east, going very fast.
>They were in tandem and were surrounded by a bluish-white haze
>or glow.We called on Miami Center frequency and asked if anyone
>else was seeing these objects. Immediately, an Areo Commander
>aircraft crew said, "Yes, we are over Vero Beach and we have
>them in sight". Miami Center switched us over to Jacksonville
>Center at this time. After our initial call into Jacksonville
>Center, we asked if the controller had been getting any reports
>of UFOs. He replied that he had numerous reports and that the
>Air Force had scrambled jet fighters to attempt to catch
>them,but had failed to get close to them. He also mentioned that
>there had been many sightings all along the east coast of the
>U.S. from as far north as Richmond,Va. My estimate of their
>speed was something over 2000 mph and their altitude above
>35,000 ft. We observed them about 30-45 seconds. After
>completing the trip and driving home, I turned on the radio to
>hear the latest news. The announcer said that according to a
>U.S. Airforce report, the mysterious objects seen in the eastern
>and southern states tonight, were meteors. I say, "Meteors, they
>were NOT". I knew I had seen my first UFOs and what a thrill it
>was.

<snip>


Hello Brian:


How very strange!

With only 120 events listed worldwide, 1961 is the slowest year
in my *U* Database between 1947 and the trough of the mid 1980s.

Even so, there are 6 listings for Florida in 1961, the most of
any state in the USA. California came in second with 5, half the
states had none at all.

While none of these are in the Tampa area, they show up in a
dog-leg pattern from the western panhandle of Florida (Eglin
AFB) over to Palatka, then down the east coast. One was near
Cape Canaveral. Neighboring states show nothing.

The only thing resembling a concentration is a thin belt of
events from Wisconsin generally SE to the Washington DC area.

Others are very loosely scattered. There is one strange report
from Wetaskewin, Alberta.


Best wishes

- Larry Hatch









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   Feb > Feb 18

                       Re: Excalibur Briefing - Shough

From: Martin Shough <mshough.nul>
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 11:38:39 -0000
Fwd Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 16:35:55 -0500
Subject: Re: Excalibur Briefing - Shough


>From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 16:15:11 -0600
>Subject: Re: Excalibur Briefing

>>From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 10:57:49 -0800
>>Subject: Re: Excalibur Briefing

>>Reducing Our Dependence on Fossil Fuels
>>T. E. Bearden

>>The source charge

>An electron or positron, perhaps?

>>and its associated surrounding virtual charges

>Virtual charges?  As in the virtual monkey that might fly out of
>my butt?

>>of opposite sign in the vacuum comprise a dipolar ensemble.

>So we have a charged particle surrounded by virtual particles of
>the opposite polarity?  Says who?

>>By its asymmetry, this dipolar ensemble absorbs virtual photon
>>energy from the vacuum

>Whoa right here.  How can a surrounded particle have asymmetry?
>Even allowing for such "virtuality," sounds like what we have
>here is a symmetrical charge bubble.

>>transduces it into real observable EM energy,

>"Transduces" what via how?  Unless you're going to show me some
>kind of trans-virtual flux, I just don't see how that can
>happen.

>>and continuously emits observable photons radially in all
>>directions.

>So the photons are passing through the virtual charge shell?
>Huh?

>>The emitted energy establishes and replenishes the associated
>>fields and potentials expanding toward infinity at light speed.

>So we've got virtual flux growing as a result of photon
>transmission, but how do we have an infinite expansion with
>photons, which are blocked by dense matter?

>>This solves the long-vexing problem of how the charge produces
>>its associated EM fields and potentials and what furnishes the
><input energy.

>It boils down to explaining (not) an unexplained effect by using
>hypothetical and unproven concepts.  If you don't pay attention
>to what Bearden is actually saying, you get the notion that you
>understand and that he's said something important, but it turns
>out his "explanation" is as virtual as the charged particles he
>talks about.

Hi Tim

Bearden may be wrong (I know nothing about him or his ideas) but
in fact the 'machinery' appealed to by Bearden according to this
quotation is conventional. If you accept the reigning paradigm
of quantum mechanics then you are wrong to sneer at the notion
of virtual charges, and the dipole he describes is quite valid.
This is called vacuum polarization. Because the quantum vacuum
surrounding an electron (say) supposedly gives rise to virtual
particles of all possible kinds, including particles of opposite
charge, there is calculated to be a net concentration of these
opposite and attracting virtual positrons surrounding it, whose
influence will be to minutely alter the effective charge on the
electron. This difference can be measured, and it exists. It is
precisely equal to the one predicted by vacuum polarisation.

The transduction he refers to would seem maybe to have something
to do with the constraining of possible virtual em wavelengths
by the 'gaps' in the charge dipole. By acting to reduce the
number of _negative-energy_ modes in the vacuum the pairs of
particles contribute a net positive energy to the field. If this
is what he's getting at, then this is related to the Casimir
effect, and again it is well 'understood' in QED.

As for the electromagnetic potential going to infinity, this is
a basic requirement of an electromagnetic gauge theory of
massless gauge bosons, which is what photons are. So again this
is in itself a harmless statement.

Whether or not the theory that Bearden then launches from this
platform is a valid theory is obviously a different question.


Martin Shough








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                     Re: 1956 Lunar Light Path - Demary

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 18:39:31 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 18:39:31 -0500
Subject: Re: 1956 Lunar Light Path - Demary

From: Tom DeMary <t.demary.nul>
To: CURRENT-ENCOUNTERS.nul
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 09:09:27 -0600
Subject: Re: 1956 Lunar Light Path


Pardon this misdirected post, but my posts don't seem to be
getting through to UFO UpDates, so I am posting to Current
Encounters with some "blind copies".


Please see:

www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2003/jan/m11-014.shtml

http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/releases/2003/23.cfm

http://www.labbey.com/Famous/Stuart.html


The new, "starry" photo looks likes a poor reproduction of Dr.
Leon Stuart's 1953 "lunar explosion" photograph, which was in
the news back in January 2003. The photo at the "labbey" link
is in the same orientation as the Ted Phillips photo:

www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/ufoupdates/listers/ted/56moonufo.html

which began the topic on Feb 14.


Tom DeMary


--------


Tom,

At 10:09 AM 17/02/2004, you wrote Current Encounters:

>Pardon this misdirected post, but my posts don't seem
>to be getting through to UFOUpdates, so I am posting
>to Current Encounters with some "blind copies."

No mail from you is making it through to this address.

a] are you sending mail to the List's address in the
   header above?

b] you're not currently on the List of subscribers to
   UFO UpDates. Would you like to be added?


Errol Bruce-Knapp
Moderator UFO UpDates - Toronto








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   Feb > Feb 19

                    Raelians Commemorate Giordano Bruno's

From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais.nul>
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 09:38:01 +0100
Fwd Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 10:03:42 -0500
Subject: Raelians Commemorate Giordano Bruno's


>From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 07:31:43 -0600
>Subject: Re: Raelians Commemorate Giordano Bruno's Assassination

>>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 20:16:35 -0800
>>Subject: Raelians Commemorate Giordano Bruno's Assassination

>>Source: Scoop

>>http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/CU0402/S00160.htm

>>16 February 2004

>>Raelian Commemorate Giordano Bruno's Assassination

>>Press Release: Raelian Movement

>>The Raelian Movement commemorates the assassination of Giordano
>>Bruno by a 'Planetary day of mourning' in his memory

>...Even the broken clock can be right two times a day.

Yes!

And there are heroes to commemorate twice a month.
BTW, If you are broke, try to meet an ET on a mountain,
and launch a new sect, like Rael did in 1973.


Gildas Bourdais







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                          Bearden's Mail Order Ph.D

From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 02:29:44 -0800
Fwd Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 10:33:08 -0500
Subject: Bearden's Mail Order Ph.D


Hello all:


Earlier I asked where T.W. Bearden got his Ph.D.

Judging from his BS, and his MS (apparently genuine)
its a fair question.

This web page seems to sum it up:

http://www.greaterthings.com/News/FreeEnergy/Directory/Beware/Bearden_Bogus_PhD/
#InvestigativeReport

(please repair URL wrap)

... Trinity College, a mail order type diploma mill formerly in
the UK, which rolled up its carpet and set up shop at as mail-
drop in South Dakota!

Bearden's "Ph.D" was in "Life Experience"... a prestigious
degree which my lemon tree could earn after proper remuneration
of course.

Bearden is unapologetic as you will see if you follow the links.
Be sure to read the SPAM quoted in link above. "No one is turned
down".


Best wishes

- Larry Hatch






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                       Re: Excalibur Briefing - Shell

From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 08:22:28 -0600
Fwd Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 12:16:55 -0500
Subject: Re: Excalibur Briefing - Shell


>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 14:36:21 -0800
>Subject: Re: Excalibur Briefing

>>From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 10:57:49 -0800
>>Subject: Re: Excalibur Briefing

>>>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 14:06:02 +0000
>>>Subject: Re: Excalibur Briefing

><snip>

>>http://www.cheniere.org/toc.html

>>Reducing Our Dependence on Fossil Fuels
>>T. E. Bearden

<snip>

>What on Earth is 'asymmetrical' about equal and opposite
>charges? That's considered the epitome of symmetry if I have it
>right.

>If Bearden has the secret to free energy from virtual photons
>(or whatever) he should be very, very rich by now. The Japanese
>would be all over it for one thing, even if somehow overlooked
>here.

No, man, you don't get it! The oil companies, working with the
Illuminati and the reptilian aliens would never let it come out
because it would mean the collapse of world government, the
Vatican, and eBay! They did the same thing with the 100-MPG
carburetor in the 1960's.

Don't be fooled. The Bush Family, Henry Kissigner, the Saudi
Arabian monarchy, Steven Spielberg, Carrot Top, and the Masons
are all working together to keep us slaves. And there ain't
nothin' any of us can do because of the chips implanted in our
heads that are controlled by subspace radio signals from a
secret black satellite at the L5 points between earth and the
moon. They hide in plain sight! That's what the Prozac is for!

Shoes for industry!








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                        Re: Excalibur Briefing - Hall

From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 21:33:44 +0000
Fwd Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 12:18:44 -0500
Subject: Re: Excalibur Briefing - Hall


>From: John Novak <john.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 00:26:40 -0800
>Subject: Re: Excalibur Briefing

>>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 22:24:43 +0000
>>Subject: Re: Excalibur Briefing

>>>From: Joachim Koch <lists.nul>
>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 18:01:01 +0100
>>>Subject: Re: Excalibur Briefing

>>>>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
>>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>>Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 22:11:23 +0000
>>>>Subject: Re: Excalibur Briefing

<snip>

>>>All facts, all documented. Come on, you surely know about.

>>>So how do you feel?

>>I feel great, but you must be quite ill to entertain such quaint
>>and off-the-wall ideas. But what do I know; I have two older
>>brothers who graduated from Yale, which must in your
>>conspiratorial circles totally disqualify me from being honest
>>and straightforward. There are two American English words that
>>aptly describe your views presented here, and they rhyme with
>>equine and excrement.

>No no no, Dick. You don't understand. Joachim is not the one
>entertaining the ideas of these groups. He's the one reporting
>on the facts.

I understand perfectly, unless there is some game-playing going
on with his comments. Should I assume that?

>I can see how you would confuse the two. Scull & Bones boys do
>seem to be off-the-wall, quaint and full of equine excrement.

I agree.

>In fact, it would not surprise me in the slightest to learn they
>regularly eat the stuff as part of their happy rituals after
>digging up dead people and telling all their dirty sex secrets.

>I'm curious, did you hear of this particular aspect of their
>ritual by association?

What aspect are you referring to? Or should I reverse your
question and address it to you?

>Also, you seem to be confusing "goes to school at Yale" with
>membership into an elite ritualistic cult that happens to have
>residence on the school.

You keep insisting that I am confused. I didn't say that going
to Yale had anything necessarily to do with Skull & Bones crap;
my brothers were not involved with that. I was merely observing
that in the paranoid world view, the fact that they went to Yale
would probably be used against me...in their twisted thinking
processes.

>And since you feel that all stories such as the one I gave about
>harassment to UFO researchers and experiencers is nothing more
>than a paranoid fairy tale since I can't prove it, please tell
>me just exactly how I could prove it and to whom I am supposed
>to report this to even if I could?

Show me where I said that. All I said was that they sound
paranoid unless you can advance some concrete evidence. If youi
can't, you had best shut up and communicate privately with like-
minded people. Friendly advice., not a sweeping judgment. When
people say crazy-soundiing things, I always ask for the
evidence. Otherwise it becomes purely a matter of faith. And
unlike some people on this list, I do not have automatic faith
in crazy-sounding ideas.

>Should I just keep my mouth shut, Dick? Let the "professionals"
>handle it? Report it to the Attorney General?

Speak out all you want, but stop putting words in my mouth. And
when I hear crazy-sounding ideas, should I just shut uip, John?
Report them to the Attorney General? Turn the people over to
"Professionals?"

>Nope. Nowhere to go with that but places like this List, Dick.
>And gosh... wouldn't you know, someone responds and says they've
>experienced the same kind of treatment.

As long as Errol doesn't cut you off, you have every right to
comment on this List; and I have every right to respond to your
comments. Get used to it!

>Do you know that, if nothing else, hearing from just one other
>person saying that they have experienced similar things has
>really helped me to continue with this research, Dick. Do you
>think that's worth anything knowing that you aren't completely
>insane just because you experienced something that left no
>material facts behind?

That's fine. Then the List is serving a priestly or mental
health function. People honestly perceive all sorts of weird
things that may or may not be physically, objectively "real." So
be it. I do not criticize such people as human beings; far from
it. But I may quite legitimately question the legitimacy of what
they claim if some sort of evidence is not presented. And I am
very tolerant about anecdotal evidence to a poiint.


 - Dick










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               Tell Jim Moseley Exactly What You Think Of Him!

From: Karl Pflock <Ktperehwon.nul>
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 16:35:57 EST
Fwd Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 12:21:44 -0500
Subject: Tell Jim Moseley Exactly What You Think Of Him!


Fellow Listbeings,

First, shhh! Not a word to Internet-phobic Jim Moseley about
this - yet. Now then.....

The months November 2003 through July 2004 ring in "Saucer
Smear" editor-publisher James W. Moseley's 50th year of
saucering, of telling it shockingly close to how it is in the
wonderfully weird world of ufology--50 madcap years as Serious
Ufologist (his Adamski expose, publishing "Saucer News"),
UFOhoxer (the Straith letter), Semi-Serious Ufologist (his 4-D
Theory, "Saucer Smear"), and Reigning Court Jester of The Field.
This makes Jim one of if not *the* longest surviving
continuously active "saucerer" on (this) planet! Love him or
hate him, there's no denying Jim Moseley, for better or worse,
has been and remains a Presence in ufology.

To mark this shockingly close to momentous occasion, "Smear" -
site

www.martiansgohome.com/smear

webmaster Steve Mansee, Ufotoonist Matt Graeber, and and I have
created the Official James W. Moseley 50th Anniversary Roast
Page:

www.martiansgohome.com/moseley_roast

We know that many of you have Moseley tales to tell, yarns
certain to recall glorious and inglorious past Moseleyean
ufological happenings and adventures to the minds of others, to
be shared, too. Now's the time and the Official Roast Page is
the place to tell it like it is or was. Post your thoughts,
memories, good wishes, photos, whatevers there - now, tomorrow,
and the next day. Sometime post-July, at a time and place yet to
be determined, all will be presented to Jim. We'll keep everyone
posted on the page as plans develop.

Please pass the word to all and sundry- -except our "vicitim,"
of course. Oh, yeah, and when you go to the roast page, you'll
find out why the exact beginning of Jim Moseley's 50 years of
saucering is somewhat and appropriately ambiguous.


Cheers,

Karl Pflock







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               Re: Link to FOTOCAT News February 2004 - Olmos

From: Vicente-Juan Ballester Olmos <ballesterolmos.nul>
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 23:27:28 +0100 (CET)
Fwd Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 12:23:00 -0500
Subject: Re: Link to FOTOCAT News February 2004 - Olmos


FOTOCAT News, February 2004

A new briefing report of the progress of FOTOCAT can be read in
the following link to the Spain=B4s Anomaly Foundation web site:

http://www.anomalia.org/fotocat1.htm

The catalog presently stores the nice figure of 4,444
photographic, worldwide events.

A description of catalog structure is provided, as well as a
statistical graph of cases recorded 1946-2004, where wave and
low periods are visible.

A table of cases per country, for countries contributing over 1%
of total (44 reports or more) is also offered as additional
information.

How can you assist in the development of this-to-be-public tool? Please
access to:

http://www.anomalia.org/fotocat1.htm

for details.

Report is both in English and Spanish.


Best wishes,

V-J









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                         Re: Off-Season UFOs - Hatch

From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 14:32:50 -0800
Fwd Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 12:32:59 -0500
Subject: Re: Off-Season UFOs - Hatch


>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 22:17:44 -0500
>Subject: Re: Off-Season UFOs

>>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 16:44:10 -0800
>>Subject: Re: Off-Season UFOs

<snip>

>>On the same map above, compare Arizona to New Mexico. Areas are
>>about the same (NM slightly larger than AZ) but AZ has less than
>>one quarter the filtered sightings counts per 1000 population as
>>New Mexico.

>>I don't see any obvious demographic reason for this.

>Many years ago when I and the world were young (early 1970s) I
>was studing the statistical data in Project Blue Book Special
>Report #14. In that publication they present, without comment, a
>map showing the USA with grid areas which are 1 degree squares,
>i.e., latitude (horizontal) and longitude (vertical) lines
>spaced 1 degree apart. Inside each grid square they listed the
>number of sightings. I got it into my head that it would be
>"neat" to use this to correlate with the population. So I
>embarked on a many week long process of estimating the
>population in each grid square. Unfortunately, population
>estimates in such accessible sources as the yearly alamacs are
>given by county within a stae, not by 1 degree squares. So I had
>much pain and suffering in estimating the population in 1 degree
>squares from data on the population in counties. But I did it,
>and reasonably well, I think. Then I located all the military
>air bases in the USA in the 1950 time frame.

>Now I was able to plot the number of sightings vs population. I
>found negligible correlation... in fact the "noise" overwhelmed
>any correlation. As I recall, the mst prominent example of non-
>correlation was the comparison of the square with Albuquerque NM
>in it with Washington, DC or New York or LA, etc. (This was long
>before the Uintah basin sightings were collected). In this case
>ABQ, with an estimated 200-300,000 people had the same number or
>a greater number of sightings than the areas with ten times its
>population.

>I did find a sort of correlation, howver, between squares with
>Military Air Bases (MABs) and the nmber of sightings. The
>correlation was not strong, but it certainly appeared that there
>were more sightings in the squares with MABs than in the
>sightings without, regardless of the population. And one must
>keep in mind that many MABs were in the vicinity of large
>cities. This was published in a paper Scientific Investigation
>of Unidentified Flying Objects (an analysis of SR#14) by the
>Center for UFO Studies in the first and third issues of the
>Journal of UFO Studies.


Hello Bruce:

One caution here, one I'm sure you are aware of.

During the 40s - 60s, people would report small town sightings
to the nearest military base, often the closest Air Force Base
on the presumption they would be properly investigated <LOL>

Incautious compilers of sightings lists or catalogs would cite
the name of the _base_ instead of the little town, road or
whatever where the actual events took place!

This would tend to skew studies based on those catalogs making
Mil Bases look more like UFO magnets than they otherwise would.
I'm not suggesting that they aren't of course.

If this is so, it might partly explain why New Mexico shows over
_four times_ the sightings counts per 1000 population as
Arizona. Another cause could be 'investigator effect' .. Roswell
types digging for data in NM selectively, to the near exclusion
of Arizona.

The demographic argument looks fairly weak when you compare the
densely populated East Coast with the western states in general.
There, sightings over area are a better fit, but even that
deviates from the expected norm.


Best

- Larry









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                            Australian Fire Ball

From: Diane Harrison <auforn.nul>
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 09:06:45 +1000
Fwd Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 12:34:35 -0500
Subject: Australian Fire Ball


Australia - Fire Ball - Burleigh Heads - Gold Coast
Source: National UFO Hotline 1800

Follow up Callin Code 3314 15.2.04
Location: Burleigh Heads Qld, Gold Coast

http://www.hypermax.net.au/~auforn/Gold-CoastUFO2004.html

Sighting report:

Mr X and his wife were quite shaken up on Sunday Night 15th Feb
04 at about 7.46pm at Burleigh Heads, they saw a fire ball
travelling from North to South. It changed shape, and travelled
right over their heads, they were going to run as they thought
it was coming straight for them.

As it reached over their heads it made a hissing sound like gas
leaking said Mr X.

Mr X took some photo's but we have to take in to consideration
that his hands were shaking when he took the photo's using a
digital camera.

Mr X being of mature age was unable to give me any further
details.

Regards

Jan Stone AUFORN Qld
Thank you Jan for this report

--


Regards Diane Harrison
National Director of The Australian UFO Research Network
Australian Skywatch Director

~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>
THE AUSTRALIAN UFO RESEARCH NETWORK
(A Non-Profit Organization)

E-Mail: auforn.nul
E-mail: ufologist.nul
http://www.hypermax.net.au/~auforn

ADMINISTRATION:

PO Box 738
Beaudessert 4285
QLD Australia
Tel 07 55 44 6888
~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>
Australian UFO Research Network Hotline Number
         1800 77 22 88 Freecall
~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>

All NEW UFO Bookshop at
http://www.contactpublishing.com









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                      Re: 1956 Lunar Path Light - Velez

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 18:18:18 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 12:37:29 -0500
Subject: Re: 1956 Lunar Path Light - Velez


>From: Amy Hebert <vanguard.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 12:56:32 -0600
>Subject: Re: 1956 Lunar Path Light

>>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 17:30:36 -0500
>>Subject: Re: 1956 Lunar Path Light

>>>From: James Oberg <joberg.nul>
>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 07:18:23 -0600
>>>Subject: Re: 1956 Lunar Path Light

>>>>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
>>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>>Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 17:11:45 -0500
>>>>Subject: Re: 1956 Lunar Path Light - Velez

>>>>Has anyone mentioned the possibility that the bright object in
>>>>the photograph may be 'intra-atmospheric' and nowhere near the
>>>>surface of the moon at all?

>>>Am I the only one curious about missing data such as date/time
>>>of the image and the reported angular rate across the face of
>>>the Moon? Seems to me that obtaining such information would go a
>>>long way towards constraining the speculations that have been
>>>offered.

>>Herr Oberg,

>>Ya know, part of the reason why I always call you 'Herr Oberg'
>>has to do with your 'brown-shirt' attitude toward myself and
>>others in regard to force feeding us what _you_ think we should
>>or should not be saying.

>>Instead of being so concerned about "constraining" my comments
>>maybe you should pay some attention to problems that are closer
>>to home, such as dealing with your own serious, (not to mention
>>rather annoying) 'control' issues.

>>If you were raised as a Christian you'll recognize the reference
>>I'm sure:

>Dear John, James, List:

Hello,

You interject,

>Why do so many interesting and
>productive discussions degenerate into name-calling, accusations
>and word-fights?

Amy, why is my response to James Oberg any business of yours? If
you don't "understand" the why of it, or you just don't like the
tone of it, you can simply trash it!

Don't fret over it or let it bother you. It's between James Oberg
and myself. We're both grown men who can speak for ourselves.
I didn't address it to you. Why are you even responding to it?

Am I (or any one else) not allowed to respond _in_kind_ to snide
List without _you_ jumping in and posting yet another
unsolicited 'critique' of it. Somehow it's okay with you if
people throw insults around or consistently  misinterpret and
twist the meaning of what I might say, but heaven forbid if I
choose not to take it.

If you don't like or understand what you read in a post... trash
it and move on. Simple!

>In a professional setting, many of the tiffs and fights we see
>on this List would not be openly tolerated

This is not a "professional" setting.

>Extend the same
>respect to others as you would have extended to yourself.

It would be really nice if everybody practiced what they preach
too.

Relax Amy. When I'm talking to you I promise I will use your
name so you'll know it is you I am addressing. The post you are
so concerned about was intended for James Oberg. Who, like
yourself and more recently Ray Stanford, think it's ok to insult
me or to misinterpret just about every word that comes out of my
mouth.

>IMHO,

MYOB. I wasn't talking to you.


John Velez








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             Re: Whittlesea UFO Photograph Enhancements - Hebert

From: Amy Hebert <vanguard.nul>
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 17:39:13 -0600
Fwd Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 13:46:09 -0500
Subject: Re: Whittlesea UFO Photograph Enhancements - Hebert


>From: Barry Taylor <stingray.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 10:24:21 +1100
>Subject: Whittlesea UFO Photograph Enhancements

>Hello List members,

>To view my enhancements and comments on the two recent Oz UFO
>photos, go to my web page at:

>http://www.theozfactor.cjb.net/oz_1.htm

>Featuring False Colour Enhancements from 'Super Zooms' of each
>object.

>Feed back on my comments welcome.

Hi, Barry:

Re: Photo No. 1. The Beveridge Victoria UFO Photo

I took your "Super Zoom" enhanced image of the
Beveridge/Whittlesea UFO (the first image on your page on the
right hand side), compared it to my and everyone else's enlarged
images (unenhanced in some cases) and found that the brighter
areas, areas presumably reflecting light, became shorter and
rounder in your version of the object. Furthermore, while the
presumed "edges" in the enlarged versions by others appear sharp
and clear, the "edges" in your version are blurred and grainy.

In other words, your 'enhanced' version of the
Beveridge/Whittlesea UFO is quite different from other versions
of the same object. Anyone can compare versions by taking
Barry's image and putting it side-by-side with other enlarged
images presented at:

http://a-realitycheck.com/whittleseaufo/analysis.htm

http://www.zaziork.com/astrobservation/beveridge.htm

http://zaziork.com/astrobservation/whittlesea_image_analysis.htm

http://www.hypermax.net.au/~auforn/WhittleseaUFO.html

http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/ufoupdates/listers/WhatIsee/

It seems you used your same 'Super Zoom' version in the rest of
your analyses on your page.

Can you please describe the processes and what programs you used
to achieve your 'enhanced' images?

And...

Re: Photo No. 2. The Tasmania UFO Photo

What was the date and time for this photograph?

Was the photographer's name really "Rod Beveridge" or is that a
pseudonym?

Where can we view a larger, unenhanced version of this
photograph so that others may do their own analysis?

Thank you, Barry.

Oh, one last question... Did you use the same programs and/or
processes that you used with the Beveridge/Whittlesea UFO
photograph to 'enhance' the "Orbs" on your "Spirit Orbs" page?

http://www.theozfactor.cjb.net/oz_1.htm

Perhaps you haven't read the studies done by Dr. Maccabee, Dr.
Eltjo H. Haselhoff and Gary Burton concerning "orbs" at:

http://brumac.8k.com/orb_1.html
http://www.cropcircleconnector.com/Dutch/LightOrbsSenseandNonsense.html
http://ifo.s5.com/


A. Hebert








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                 Strange Lights In Sky Reported By Resident

From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO <hbccufo.nul>
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 17:15:04 -0800
Fwd Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 13:46:09 -0500
Subject: Strange Lights In Sky Reported By Resident



Hi List

Well below is a newspaper article which just came out today, I
have been working on this case and many others that have come
in. Two major cases are sitting on the desk that are nothing
more than amazing reports. One from British Columbia and the
other from new Brunswick. Many more reports plus these have to
be taken off of audio and typed up.

take care
Brian

-----

Strange Lights In Sky Reported By Resident

by Bernice Trick
Citizen staff
Prince George Citizen Newspaper
Wednesday February 18th 2004

A local resident wants to know if anyone else has seen fast
moving balls of fire in the sky above Prince George in recent
months.

Lisa Hallam says she's witnessed the sight on three separate
occasions - including Monday night - as well as August 18,
2003 and January 31, 2004.

"The first time I saw this intensely red ball of fire was last
August 18 above Punchaw Park, just off Ness Avenue where I
live," said the 35-year old Hallam, describing the object's size
as about four times the size of the brightest star in the sky.

"I knew it wasn't Mars because it was located behind me," said
Hallam.

She said another strange thing at the time was the electronics
in her home "started acting funny. We'd lose the TV signal and
the screen would go green, and the VCR and DVD player turned
themselves on and off," said Hallam, who's a CNC student.

"I saw the light again January 31. I thought I was losing my
mind, so thank goodness my mother saw it, too.

"(On Monday) night I was coming home about 6:30 p.m. along
Rainbow Drive and there it was again, travelling northwest above
Cranbrook Hill acting in the same manner as the others. It moved
pretty fast. It's so intensely red."

When Hallam reached home she continued to watch the sky, and
said there were two other unique sites.

"Above Cranbrook Hill there was a circular shaped blue green hue
that appeared both in front of and behind the clouds, and then I
saw a long, rectangular hue of light-green light. It resembled
the northern lights, but moved horizontally instead of up and
down. My neighbour saw the bar-shaped hue, also."

That same day, Lisa's mother, Cheryll Hallam, said the
electronics "went wonky" again. Gil Self, vice president of the
Prince George Astronomical Society, said there had been no
reports of the lights described by Hallam.

"Right now Venus is brilliant due to its location in its orbit
high in the western sky. It sparkles like a jewel", said Self,
who said he never discredits reports by people, but instead,
tries to explain the likely causes.

Self said there are many explanations for lights in the sky -
 refracted light from aircraft, electrical phenomenon in the
sky, fireballs, meteorites, and electrical discharges from time
to time.

UFO expert Brian Vike of Houston said: "I have no explanation
for the sighting, but I am going to check out a few things
regarding it and a few more sightings in the Prince George
area."

Vike can be contacted toll free at 1-866-262-1989.

Brian Vike

DirectorHBCC UFO Research
Canadian Toll Free UFO Hotline 1 866 262 1989 - Free call.
Home - Phone 1 250 845 2189
email: hbccufo.nul
Website: http://www.hbccufo.com








   UFO UpDates
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   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   Feb > Feb 19

                           Filer's Files #08-2004

From: George A. Filer <Majorstar.nul>
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 23:34:29 EST
Fwd Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 13:46:09 -0500
Subject: Filer's Files #08-2004


Filer's Files #08-2004 Skywatch Investigations.
George A. Filer, Director MUFON Eastern
February 18, 2004, Webmaster: Chuck Warren --

My website is at: www.georgefiler.com/


Possible Life in Space

The purpose of these files is to report the UFO eyewitness and
photo/video evidence that occurs on a daily basis around the
world and in space. Mars - Living Anomalies Discovered?
Abduction Investigation in Mullica Hill, UFO Approaches the
Space Station, Maine - An Explosion Of Light Under 3 Stars, New
Hampshire - Light Explodes Into a Green Light, Massachusetts -
Fighters Chase Cigar, Connecticut - Five Scattered Ball Lights,
New York - Scary Situation Over The Hudson and Flying Triangle,
New Jersey - Suspicious Low Moving Lights , Pennsylvania - Disk
Seen for Ninety Minutes, Virginia - Bright Object in the Sky,
South Carolina -Three Big Orange Lights, Georgia - Filmed Disk
UFOs, Objects, Florida - Pilot Sighting, Tennessee - Dark Oval
Object Photographed In Daytime, Ohio - Silver Metallic Wingless
UFO, Iowa - Fast Moving Bright Lights In The Sky, Missouri - We
Saw A Slow Moving Orange Sphere, Nebraska - Changing Multi-
Colored Lights, Arizona - Five Disk Shaped Ships, California - A
Bright Round Yellow Object and Low Flying Craft, Canada - Bright
Light Video, Alaska - Explosive Light Over Skies, Ireland -
 Flying Triangle With Three Red Lights, UK - UFOs Sighted, South
Africa - I Saw A UFO, and Australia - Three Big White Disks
Shoot Into Sky.

International UFO Congress

I just returned from speaking at the International UFO Congress
in Laughlin, Nevada. It was a fantastic conference with 27 top
international speakers. There were reports on hundreds of
sightings worldwide from the US, Turkey, the UK, Germany,
Brazil, Mexico, Israel, and Australia and dozens of impressive
videos and films were shown. Besides a great conference, I met
dozens of interesting people. I also took a couple days to visit
the Grand Canyon, that is one the seven natural wonders of the
world. The Flamingo Resort is a great place for a conference and
I suggest you plan on going next year. The only problem was that
I was unable to get last weeks Filer's Files from Laughlin, NV
or Bullhead, Arizona. I had to drive to Flagstaff, AZ to finally
get them out. I want to thank Teri and Bob Brown for a wonderful
conference.

One of the most interesting speakers was Dr. Norman Bergrun's a
former NASA scientist who showed Evidence of ET Intelligence
with a possible ET ship in the rings of Saturn.

A strange Light is at #1 with a possible cylindrical ship at the
end of Saturn ring. Point #2 allegedly shows electromatic lines.
Thanks to Dr. Norman Bergrun and Voyager Copyright photos.

UFO Approaches The Space Station

"The Russian-United States crew aboard the International Space
Station (ISS) has reported an unidentified object outside their
orbiting craft, said space officials on Tuesday," February 10,
2004. "U.S. astronaut Michael Foale and his Russian colleague
Alexander Kaleri last week observed a 20- centimeter (8-inch)
long strange object of soft material, which was floating in
space, said a NASA representative in Russia, Sergei Puzanov."
"For the moment, it's not clear what it is. U.S. and Russian
experts are studying photos sent by the (ISS) crew to Earth to
try and determine its origin, he said, adding that it posed no
danger to the station or its crew." "It could be a piece of the
station's insulation or a strap used to attach some technical
equipment to the outside of the station, according to Russian
experts quoted by the Interfax news agency." "It is possible we
will never manage to find out what it was, said a spokesman for
Russian mission control in Moscow, Valery Lyndin. According to
Lyndin, "there was a similar incident on the now-scrapped
Russian space station Mir." "The cosmonauts saw a shining object
which they filmed. (See the Interfax report for February 10,
2004, "Something's out there." Thanks to Jim Hickman
http://www.thehickmanreport.com)

Mars - Living Anomalies Discovered?

Norm Bryden writes, "These are sections of images released from
Opportunity of Sol 013 and I think that these formations may be
life forms. There are spherical and medallion shaped objects
that look like some kind of growth. They are on the surface and
are not covered with dust. They also appear to be growing out of
the bare rock faces. Some look like the spheres that appear from
spore colonies here on earth. There are also many coin or
medallion shaped objects all around that are similar in size.
These various objects look like a type of living growth. JPL
photo sent by Norman Bryden stonesnorm.nul

Abductions Investigation in New Jersey

MULLICA HILL - Investigator Evelyn Galson writes, "On February
5, 2004, George Filer and I went to talk to Ann Francis, and
investigate more about her experiences. She was open and
friendly and seemed very sincere. She revealed to us many things
that her family had been experiencing.

Ann Francis- 35 years old

James Francis- 40 years old

Steven Francis - 4 1/2 years old- son

Michele Francis 1 1/2 years old- daughter

Ann Francis has had some college, she was also a member of Mensa
for very high IQs. The society welcomes people from different
walks of life whose IQ is in the top 2% of the population. She
left college and ended her studies because she wanted to get
married, but is now planning to return and take classes in
physics.

ANN'S EARLY YEARS

When she was a young child she lived in Pennsville, N.J. on a
dead end road surrounded by woods and a swamp. She was told
never to go into the woods by her Mom. When she was three years
old, she was taken out through the window of her bedroom by two
beings. These beings looked like Pebbles and Bamm Bamm from the
cartoon called The Flintstones. She was taken high above the
trees, down below she saw a round ship on the ground with an
opened hatch. Standing in the open hatch she saw a tall Gray
with long arms and legs. She had, also, seen another ship just
above the ship that was on the ground, but high in the sky. As
she watched she saw trucks with canvas tops coming down the road
she lived on. The beings that had her changed their appearance,
they were now small Grays. They kept her just below tree level
moving her in and out as if to hide her, they didn't want her to
be seen.She doesn't know what happened in between this time
period, it is a little unclear. The next thing she remembers is
being dropped from above and falling onto her bed. (As an adult
she realized the trucks were military vehicles.)

When she was a young girl she had a game she played with her
sister. She had the ability to locate people if she concentrated
on them. Her sister would go in her room and Ann could tell her
exactly were she was in the room at different times. This really
made her sister nervous, because she couldn't understand how she
was doing it. Ann didn't know how she did it either, just that
she was able to do it.

Ann's grandparents lived in Glassboro, N.J. and she remembers
playing in the backyard with neighborhood children and seeing
small triangular shaped flying objects with lights and buttons
on them and two handles on the front. She remembers that the
children could fly and ride on them. They were young, so they
didn't question their ability to fly or where they came from.

NEW YORK - When Ann was older she was still having experiences
while living in New York, she was taken up into a ship and was
told by gray aliens to remember what she was seeing. Looking out
the window of their ship, she could see into the windows of a
huge craft that was right next to them and she could see people
and Grays. On another day, as she was walking in the city and
passed a store window with a photo of Whitley Strieber, the
author of "Communion", she became very upset because she knew
him, and remembers seeing him on one of the ships when she was
taken. She wrote to him and told him about it.

She said that she has seen humans on ships and they were working
with the aliens. She remembers being taken to a desert like
place in a valley, with Pueblo Indian type buildings. On the
inside there were four sets of four cubic areas, the walls could
close, but there was no ceiling on top of these cubic areas.
There was a bed and a sink and a place to put things. She was
shown a dining hall and bathrooms for men and another for women.
The complex appeared to be a training base where people were
being taught by the aliens. She remembers sitting at a curved
panel, it had lights and small knobs on it. There was an oval
object in the panel which she would place her hand on and move
it around apparently learning to fly their craft. She knew this
place was a Training Camp, and she was being trained as were the
others but she didn't know exactly what she was being trained
for. She remembers hearing in her mind a comment by a Gray, that
"They are training well." The Investigation Continues. Thanks to
Evelyn Galson

Maine - An Explosion of Light Under Three Stars

OGUNQUIT - The witness went out on January 27, 2004, at 10 PM,
to look at the stars on a clear night and saw what seemed to be
an explosion of light under the three stars in Orion's Belt. One
particularly bright star with a pulsing circle moved in a
strange way. The witness states, "I turned away to clear my eyes
to make sure it wasn't an illusion and when I looked back the
star was defiantly moving in a zigzag way." I watched for a
moment and went in the houses to get my daughter so she could
tell me I wasn't seeing things, but the star was gone. Tonight
about 1:30 am my husband came in from smoking a cigarette and
said he saw something, too. Towards the west was a zig zag
moving star. I can't honestly say I saw a UFO, but I am making
sure my doors and windows are locked and I am afraid to go out
and look up. Thanks to Peter Davenport UFOcenter

New Hampshire -Bright Light Explodes Into a Green Light

COLEBROOK - A bright white light was observed on the western
horizon just south of Mount Monadnock, on February 1, 2004, that
at first was thought to be Venus about 7 PM. An hour later, the
observer noticed the light appeared to be moving slowly towards
his location as he drove south bound on US Route 3. He thought
maybe it was a border patrol helicopter because of its movements
and location. By 7:30 PM, it was very obvious the object was
moving towards my location. The witness states, "I continued to
look occasionally at the bright light when suddenly it exploded
into a green light that illuminated the Connecticut River Valley
on both the NH and VT sides. It had small tendrils coming down
to ground as it exploded. My passenger with me was very scared
and insisted that we go home. Thanks to Peter Davenport
UFOcenter

Massachusetts - Fighters Chase Cigar

WOBURN -- At 11:30 PM, on January 29, 2004, 8: PM, several
fighter jets were heard in the area, apparently they were
chasing an object that was originally seen in Westport, Ct area
about 60 minutes earlier. The object was silent and had long
probe like extension and several bright lights all in a
white/blue color. Fighter jets were heard in the area for about
an hour then all became silent. No stories appeared in the
morning papers and no accounts where broadcasted on any of the
news stations. Weather conditions were clear and cold with great
visibility from soft crescent shaped moonlight. Thanks to Peter
Davenport UFOcenter

Connecticut - Five Scattered Ball Lights

MIDDLEBURY - On February 1, 2004, two friends were driving in
two cars following each other at 9 PM, when the girlfriend
called on the cell phone to her boyfriend's car ahead. He said,
"Look at all those strange lights on left that look like cell
phone towers?" If you use the lights as a guide to the top of
the tower they were all uneven and very bright. They were not
blinking and they were hovering way lower than planes. I
insisted they were towers, but he told me they weren't. Fifteen
minutes later, he went back by the spot and the lights were
gone. I decided to return a couple days later and I can confirm
there were no towers in the area so there was nothing there that
can produce those lights. Thanks to Peter Davenport UFOcenter

New York - Flying Triangle and Scary Situation

NEW YORK CITY - A medical student reports seeing a large
triangle shaped UFO on January 25, 2004, at 4 AM, that hung over
the Hudson River for about two minutes. It seemed to be
searching for something, because there was a light-blue beam
coming from the middle of it. When I went to pull out my camera,
it slowly lowered itself into the water. Many people saw this
object besides me. Thanks to Peter Davenport UFOcenter

BROOKLYN - The observer was walking and looking west and saw a
green light in the sky moving very fast and then disappearing on
January 28, 2004,at 8:55 PM. The observer states, "The object
flew west over my head with a light on it, but it was hard to
tell in the dark." This is a brownstone neighborhood; the light
looked much lower than planes or helicopters, which sometimes-
fly overhead. I thought I was nuts until I heard a teenager
nearby telling his friend about seeing it, too. We compared
notes and he saw pretty much exactly what I saw.. Thanks to
Peter Davenport UFOcenter

New Jersey - Suspicious Moving Lights and Disk Spotted

PENNSAUKEN - Witnesses saw six lights on January 29, 2004, at
9:30 PM, two separate UFOs very close to each other holding
steady in the air with no movement as if they were watching
something. Suddenly one of them turned off its lights for three
seconds and then turned then back on three seconds later. Both
started moving very slow getting lost. The witness writes, "I
told my friend Junior to stop his truck and we jumped to the
ground and saw these craft and sat down and discussed what we
really saw and concluded that those things couldn't be planes or
helicopters because of their very close proximity to the ground.
Also there was no sound at all. I knew from the beginning when I
saw the lights that they were not normal. Thanks to Peter
Davenport

CLIFTON - A disk tears through the skies silently and at
lightning speed and is observed by two witnesses on February 2,
2004 at 12:30 PM. The witness reports, "I was in the car with my
cousin (non-believer) and he pointed out the object to me. He
said jokingly, "Is that a UFO?" and laughed at me (believer) I
rolled down all of the windows in the car to listen and there
was no sound. Any aircraft that was so close to our car would
have made some noise. It flew past us and it was out of our
vision in under ten seconds, but I got a good look at it for
five seconds. Due to the winter's sun glare I couldn't see
anything very good other than a very bright shiny disk. Thanks
to Peter Davenport UFOcenter

Pennsylvania - Disk Seen for Ninety Minutes

READING - The observer spotted a disk with blue and red lights,
stationary in the southeast for 90 minutes. It disappeared when
aircraft approached on January 29, 2004, at 6 PM. The disk was
very bright with blue and red lights, that sat stationary in the
southeastern sky for around 90 minutes. Disappeared when
aircraft finally approached. Thanks to Peter Davenport UFOcenter

Virginia - Bright Object in the Sky

RICHMOND - The witness was walking his dogs, when a bright
object was seen in the northeast sky on January 28, 2004, at
6:35 PM. He states, "I'm guessing it was at about 10,000 feet in
the clear night sky and pulsed a metallic and steel blue light,
as I write this at 7:30 it is still in the sky and has not moved
an inch...I called the local CBS affiliate here in Richmond and
simply told them what I saw in the sky, I, also, had my wife and
stepson take turns outside looking at it through my binoculars
and they had no idea what it was either. Thanks to Peter
Davenport UFOcenter

South Carolina -Three Big Orange Lights Sat In The Sky

MYRTLE BEACH - The observer was driving down Highway 31 towards
501 on January 29, 2004, 1:46 PM, when he spotted the first two
big orange lights, and then another. One was higher up than the
other, about as high up as the smaller planes fly in the area,
but they couldn't have been planes because they disappeared.
These big orange lights sat in the sky motionless for a moment
before vanishing. I have never seen anything like this. Thanks
to Peter Davenport UFOcenter

Georgia - Filmed Disk Unidentified Flying Objects

COHUTTA - The photographer bought a new Cannon ES8600, 8mm
camcorder and within 24 hours recorded about 30 minutes of
"unidentified flying objects", on February 2, 2004, between
around 12 noon. Shooting at the sky and blocking the sun out
with the eve of my house and only seeing the rays of the sun, I
filmed about 30 minutes of "unidentified flying objects". I
started off by having the roof of my house in the lower portion
of the filming, for reference points and for focus. While
getting my house in the lower portion of the video, and looking
up from the view finder, I noticed a light shadow coming up from
behind my house. I luckily caught a dark disk shaped UFO going
straight overhead. It was about the size of a pea at arm's
length. There are at least three or four disks in the film that
seem to blend in with the rays of the sun, but if you shoot away
from the sun, you can catch them on film. You see the saucer
shapes as they move at the correct angle and the sun reflects
off them, they look like a white spot going across the sky.
Thanks to Peter Davenport UFOcenter

Florida - Pilot Sighting Report

My first sighting happened in 1961, on a trip from Tampa, Fla.
to Atlanta, Ga. It was a night flight and we had leveled off at
our assigned altitude and were approximately 40 miles north of
Tampa. We suddenly observed a flight of four star-like objects
heading south, high above us and to the east, going very fast.
They were in tandem and were surrounded by a bluish-white haze
or glow. We called on Miami Center frequency and asked if anyone
else was seeing these objects. Immediately, an Areo Commander
aircraft crew said, "Yes, we are over Vero Beach and we have
them in sight." Miami Center switched us over to Jacksonville
Center at this time.

After our initial call into Jacksonville Center, we asked if the
controller had been getting any reports of UFOs. He replied that
he had numerous reports and that the Air Force had scrambled jet
fighters to attempt to catch them, but had failed to get close
to them. He also mentioned that there had been many sightings
all along the east coast of the U.S. from as far north as
Richmond,Va. My estimate of their speed was something over 2000
mph and their altitude above 35,000 ft. We observed them about
30-45 seconds. After completing the trip and driving home, I
turned on the radio to hear the latest news. The announcer said
that according to a U.S. Air Force report, the mysterious
objects seen in the eastern and southern states tonight, were
meteors. I say, "Meteors, they were NOT". I knew I had seen my
first UFOs and what a thrill it was. Thanks to Brian Vike,
Director HBCC UFO Research hbccufo.nul Website:
http://www.hbccufo.com

Tennessee - Daytime Dark Oval Object Photographed

BRISTOL - The witness was driving home from getting a
preliminary site photo for another investigation on January 30,
2004, 3 PM, when I spotted a dark oval object near my home in
the sky. I snapped one photo and hurried home to get the object
on video, but it was no longer visible. Thanks to Peter
Davenport UFOcenter

Ohio - Silver Metallic Wingless UFO

LYNDHURST - The witness was driving north on Brainard Road east
of Cleveland and noticed a long silver object to left center in
the sunlight at 8:22 AM on February 11, 2004. It was about 50
degrees above the horizon. The object had no wings or tail
assembly. It was 1/2 inch in length at arm's length with high
reflectivity. There was one dark spot midway on the body. The
object kept a constant side on view, rapidly receded away to the
north in less than five seconds and disappeared. Thanks to Peter
Davenport UFOcenter

Editor's Notes: The object looks similar to a UFO videotaped by
George Ritter 125 miles away in Findlay, Ohio several years ago.

Iowa - Fast Moving Bright Lights In The Sky

VINTON - The witness reports, "I was driving down a gravel road
near our home on January 27, 2004, 11:20 PM, and out of nowhere
I saw two bright white lights in the sky ahead of me." One was
to my right and one to my left. The lights were similar to a
large aircraft you would see flying very low, but the speed and
agility could only be described as similar to a helicopter. They
both moved at the exact speed coming towards each other meeting
directly in front of me, but still at a distance from me and
then immediately with the exact speed started descending down.
At that point I stopped my truck and said to myself, what are
they going to do? Land on the highway? I was a little nervous to
see what "they" were, but again they started moving forward and
I soon realized that they had vanished. They were gone just as
fast as they appeared. Thanks to Peter Davenport UFOcenter

Missouri - We Saw A Slow Moving Orange Sphere

WILLARD -- The witnesses were a 23-year-old pastor, his 23-year-
old wife, and a 22-year-old friend who were driving home on
state highway AB on January 31, 2004, at 9:30 PM, when they saw
an orange glowing sphere moving through the sky very slowly.
They pulled over at a closed gas station to watch it and see if
it had any navigational beacons. The witness states, "My uncle
is a pilot, and has taught me about aircraft recognition and
there were no navigational beacons or flashing lights." It was a
constantly glowing orange sphere moving backwards and forwards
across the sky very slowly. "It passed overhead and then
disappeared completely," he stated. Thanks to Peter Davenport
UFOcenter

Nebraska - Changing Multicolored Lights

KENT COUNTY -- A bright object, with multicolored lights was
seen in the southern sky, just above the trees, then it rose up
and traveled north on January 30, 2004, at 8 PM. It began to
rise after a while, then it proceeded to travel in a northern
direction. No apparent shape could be determined. There were
very bright colored lights for twenty minutes. Thanks to Peter
Davenport UFOcenter

Arizona - Five Disk Shaped Ships

TUCSON - The witness reports, "On February 14, 2004, I lay there
enjoying my spa's pulsating water on my back at 7:45 PM, and saw
something that I have never seen before." As I looked up into
the southern sky and noticed about eight randomly spaced, light
flashes that would flash on and off? They looked like miniature
fireworks as they had bright centers and little flashes or beams
that emanated from the center. The Tucson Gem and Mineral Show
did have fireworks that weekend to celebrate 50 years}, but
unlike fireworks that usually have embers drifting down, these
light flashes had no embers etc. At first I figured them to be
planes, then helicopters as Davis Montham Air Force base is in
that direction. There was no sound that I could hear. They
flashed on, then off for about 20 seconds, then one by one
blinked off and did not reappear for the time I was in my spa.
Interesting I thought to myself." Email report.

California - A Bright Round Yellow Object and Low Flying Craft

SAN FRANCISCO - A small unidentifiable aircraft was observed on
January 26, 2004, at 11:03 PM, flying at a very low speed
without making any sound without FAA registration
identification. From my vantage point in my apartment at 1960
Fulton St., it flew northeast at an altitude of 600 feet (in
reference to Transamerica Building comparison). I lost visual
aircraft contact at the level with Gillson Hall on the USF
campus. This is an unusually low trajectory over a crowded
metropolitan area. It morphed from single engine aircraft to
irregular lighting pattern with two to three different colored
lights (red/white). The witness reports, "At first this aircraft
was identifiable to me as a small single engine Cessna-type
aircraft, however, it flew in a rather low trajectory with an
alternating red and white flashing light.

ANTIOCH - The witness reports seeing a bright glowing round
yellow/orange pulsing object that moved slowly and silently
almost overhead on January 30, 2004, at 4:20 AM. It was moving
 northeast pulsing and dipping a little over the river and
started to descend towards the Delta Islands for ten minutes. I
drove down to the river attempting to locate it again but
couldn't do so. The object had a bright pulsing intensity from
all angles. Thanks to Peter Davenport UFOcenter

Oregon - Brightly Lit Cylindrical Object Rises Slowly

TILLAMOOK -- The witness spotted a bright cylinder shaped light
approximately 500 feet above the south end of Tillamook Bay at
7:30 PM, on February 2, 2004. He observed the bright light
through binoculars and saw a fully illuminated cylinder that was
rising slowly in a northwesterly direction. The cylinder entered
a broken cloud cover and illuminated the clouds as it continued
to rise and then disappeared after five minutes. Several minutes
after the cylinder disappeared, jet fighter aircraft were heard
above the Bay City area. Thanks to Peter Davenport UFOcenter

Canada - Bright Light Video

HOUSTON, BC - On February 4, 2004, Brian Vike investigated a
sighting that took place west of town high above the Bulkley
Valley. At 7:06 AM, the wife gave a call for her husband to come
and have a look at a moon sized object. It's circular color was
very bright, and the top of the object was domed shaped. It was
still dark outside and the object was seen moving in between a
row of trees. It just dropped down slowly and "stopped"! She
grabbed her video camera and started to shoot some film of the
bright, shining object. She went outside to shoot but the object
disappeared. Returning inside the object was again visible.
Brian states, "Why the witness could not see it when she went
outdoors is a mystery to me, there was nothing to block out this
large orange glowing object. I could see clearly through the
first set of trees to the second row. So why the light
disappeared has me baffled. I was, also, given a copy of the
tape to have it looked at. Brian Vike, Director HBCC UFO
Research

Alaska - Explosive Light Over Skies

KETCHIKAN -- Many people have seen unexplained flashing red and
blue, bright lights numerous times that move like a UFO, but
tonight on January 30, 2004, 8: PM, topped them all. The witness
states, "While standing on the patio, I saw an extremely bright
object flying in a downward motion with lights that looked like
explosions that were so bright, they shone through the clouds."
I've seen falling stars and meteors; and this was definitely a
UFO. I remember I saw a documentary once that showed pictures
from the atmosphere of spaceships flying around Earth and then
what looked like gunfire from Earth towards them, like we were
shooting at them. This is exactly what it looked like for about
four seconds and they were gone. Thanks to Peter Davenport
UFOcenter

Ireland - Flying Triangle With Three Red Lights

PORTLAOISE - The student was out walking his dog, Roxy on
January 27, 2004, at 10 PM, when he noticed strange lights in
the sky that hovered over them for at least a minute. He states,
"There were three bright red lights that were definitely not an
airplane and I have never seen any other aircraft that looked
like this." There was no sound and then it shot off at an
incredible speed. Thanks to Peter Davenport UFOcenter



UK - UFOs Sighted

BRISTOL -- On Sunday, February 8, 2004, just after midnight, Tim
Lock was outdoors in the woods at Wraxall and Failand when
"approaching from the northwest came a white light with a red
tinge piloting above the trees, moving sharply about but
hovering over the same area, as if it had lost something. It
moved up, down, forward, backward, up, down, forward and so on.
 Tim says, "We, also, saw three smaller shooting-star objects
shoot about under it from the left at about 15 minute
intervals." Tim and his companions kept the strange object in
view until 2 AM, until he fell asleep . "I filmed it on my
camcorder, and my mother and girl friend, also, observed it. It
was real white with a halo around it that was fuzzy.

LEEDS --On Tuesday, February 10, 2004, Raymond Mulhall, 17,
spotted a UFO over Meanwood in the UK. "This sighting was
witnessed by 8 people, two of whom were policemen. The object
was about 50 feet (15 meters) across and 20 feet (6 meters)
high. It moved across the sky without a single noise. It
appeared to land in an area nicknamed the Witches Quarry." "An
hour later," Ray reported, "I arrived at the Witches Quarry and
found damaged trees and three triangular depressions in the
ground. These were 25 feet (7.7 meters) apart and depressed
into the ground to a depth of 8 inches (20 centimeters). There
was a strange heat emanating from the ground that I found rather
creepy, so I left and returned home." Thanks to Editor: Joseph
Trainor, UFO Roundup Vol. 9, # 7 Feb.18, 2004 E-mail:
Masinaigan.nul Website: http://www.ufoinfo.com/roundup/


South Africa - I Saw a UFO and an Orange Ball

TRICHARDT -- I looked outside my window and saw the UFO on
January 27, 2004, at 10:30 PM, coming closer as if to land. It
had bright colorful lights and it got brighter as it came
closer. I ran outside and it was gone. Thanks to Peter
Davenport

CAPE TOWN - On February 2, 2004, an orange "ball" was seen
hovering and moving short distances at high speed by three
witnesses. It appeared to be dancing, flickering, and had one
red navigation light, which appeared intermittently. The witness
reports, "The moon was almost full and the object was clearly
visible, but it was hard to know at what distance it was
relative to my position." My friend thought it could be a
helicopter, but there was no sound and it was too high up. I
just felt it was unnatural when I observed it. I can only say
that it was not an aircraft, satellite, or anything that I have
seen before. Perhaps there is a scientific explanation, but for
me this is an "UFO". Thanks to Peter Davenport UFOcenter

Australia - Three Big White Disks Shoot Into Sky

MELBOURNE - The witness was walking home from the shopping
center on February 2, 2004, at about 6:30PM, when he saw three
white disks floating about three feet above an empty field.
 Each disk was about 30 meters in diameter and floating next to
each other. At first, the witness thought they were some sort
of water tank device. He states, "I approached and after I took
the first couple of steps all three of them shot up into the air
about 500 meters as fast as a sling shot and then in a neck
snapping move, they jolted off at a 90 degree angle and were out
of sight within a few seconds." I study physics at UNI and I
know that they must have broken the sound barrier or gotten
close within four seconds from take off. The way they sped up
from take off at about 200 mph and continued to speed up as they
made a 90 degree turn from vertical to horizontal at an even
higher speed, then sped up so fast that they were out of sight
within a few seconds on a clear blue sky day was amazing. I have
not slept since then. It was completely silent. I have never
told anybody except my girlfriend and never will. Thanks to
Peter Davenport UFOcenter


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   Feb > Feb 19

                       Near Huntsville Alabama Report

From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO <hbccufo.nul>
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 05:29:51 -0800
Fwd Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 13:46:09 -0500
Subject: Near Huntsville Alabama Report



Hi List

Well all I can say is what an interesting day. I have lost count
as to how many sighting reports came in. New and old reports,
mostly for British Columbia and other parts of Canada and the
United States.

Take care
Brian

-----

Huntsville, Alabama (30 miles south)

Received: February 18, 2004

Date: Feb. 10,1999
Time: 8:15 pm central

Hello Brian.

I have an account I would like to share with you. I live just 30
miles south of Huntsville and have seen some strange objects in
the sky where I live. Since you listed the pilots reports about
some of their strange sightings I would like to share with you
what I saw one winter eve. On Feb. 10, 1999 that night at 8:15
p.m. central I was outside enjoying the clear skies and
beautiful stars evident in the winter months. I was watching
what appeared to be a commercial airliner traverse the skies
from south to north towards Huntsville. As the airliner got to
approx. 45 degrees above horizon while I was fixed watching it,
suddenly a brilliant white "star" like object (round and approx.
4-8 feet in diameter) just appeared out of nowhere above and
behind the airliner. It just blinked on and was at a estimated
distance of perhaps 5-8 miles in the planes 9:00 position.

The light was motionless (for maybe .2-.3 second) after
appearing then it zoomed down to the planes port side to a
distance of approx. 1/4 mile away from the planes wing and the
same apparent altitude. Once it reached this position it paced
along the left side at the same speed as the airliner. I ran
inside and got my wife and kids to come and watch as the object
remained along side the plane until out of sight. The amazing
thing about this incident was the objects speed. I've since
given thought and some calculations as to the speed the object
moved.

Since looking into the vastness of the space makes it difficult
to determine exact distances but speculating distances and time
the object traveled I surmised the object was at least 5 miles
and possible as much as 8 miles away (assuming the airliner was
at a typical altitude of between 28,000-32,000 ft. as a
reference of distance from object to plane) and took only .3-.4
second to make up the distance that would equate to a velocity
of between 45,000 to 96,000 mph. Pretty amazing to watch an
object go from zero to 96,000 mph in an instant. The area where
I live has in the past been a hot bed of UFO activity. One world
known event occurred in Fyffe AL (1991 I think) where a
cylindrical object was seen by hundreds of people including
friends of mine. The object hovered over pastures where cattle
mutilations were found the following day. One of my friends
watched one eve coming home from work as it hovered and
maneuvered slowly over a wooded area near Blountsville AL and
shined a brilliant red beam to the ground. The next day the area
was taped off with yellow tape and a crew resembling a bio-
hazard team was scouring the area.

I have done some research into older cases that date back to the
early forties and before. One was a coworker of my wife that saw
a disc shaped object hovering above their farms pasture. Once
the man (a boy of 10 at the time) approached the object it
instantly disappeared. He described it as metallic brushed
aluminum color, 40' in diameter and 10-12 feet thick as a
perfect disc shaped and top/bottom equidistant from the center
edge. This occurred in 1942. Another incident dating to 1938
where another acquaintance and a buddy was deer hunting in
eastern Tennessee and saw a large disc craft between two
mountains as he described "down in a deep hollow" move slowly
below mountain peeks as if searching for something (wildlife?).
I tried to shake him in his conviction to see if he would stick
with his story and he told me "so help me God we saw
this......and we didn't tell anybody for a long time."

I am convinced that our government knows more than they are
sharing.

Thanks for your time.

Thank you to the witness for this wonderful report.

Brian Vike

Director HBCC UFO Research
Canadian Toll Free UFO Hotline 1 866 262 1989 - Free call.
Home - Phone 1 250 845 2189
email: hbccufo.nul
Website: http://www.hbccufo.com








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   Feb > Feb 19

                            UFO Sighted Over City

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 06:58:22 -0800
Fwd Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 13:46:09 -0500
Subject: UFO Sighted Over City



Source: The Evening Herald - Plymouth UK

http://www.thisisplymouth.co.uk/displayNode.jsp?nodeId=99746&command=displayCont
ent&sourceNode=98877&contentPK=8904264

19 February 2004


UFO Sighted Over City

This amazing photograph snapped over Plymouth is being called
one of the best pictures of a UFO ever taken.

A city-based amateur photographer captured this image when he
was trying out his new hi-tech digital camera at night. It shows
what can only be described as an 'unidentified flying object'
hovering above St Budeaux.

Another, equally stunning, snap shows the same brightly-
illuminated object tilted at a different angle.

UFO experts are highly excited by the pictures and the Royal
Navy today asked the Herald to supply them with the photos -
 because they want to study them.

Plymouth-based UFOlogist Bob Boyd has called the snaps among the
'best five' pictures of a UFO he has ever seen - in 25 years of
spotting the phenomena. Mr Boyd, chairman of the Plymouth UFO
Research Group, said: "It's the real thing."

He claimed the picture had been examined by a photographic
expert who confirmed it was genuine.

The man who took the photograph, a dockyard worker living in St
Budeaux, didn't realise what he had snapped until he got home
and inspected his pictures.

A Plymouth City Airport spokesman said it was 'highly unlikely'
it was a commercial flight. Mr Boyd does not know of anybody
else reporting the UFO, but said: "That doesn't mean nobody saw
it."










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   Feb > Feb 19

                      Another 50th Anniversary Of Note

From: Steven Kaeser <steve.nul>
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 09:48:22 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 13:46:09 -0500
Subject: Another 50th Anniversary Of Note


Source: The Washington Post

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A53203-2004Feb18.html

02-19-04

The Style Section

Ike and the Alien Ambassadors
The Whole Tooth About the President's Extraterrestrial Encounter
By Peter Carlson
Washington Post Staff Writer
Thursday, February 19, 2004; Page C01

Fifty years ago tomorrow - on Feb. 20, 1954 - President Dwight
Eisenhower interrupted his vacation in Palm Springs, Calif., to
make a secret nocturnal trip to a nearby Air Force base to meet
two extraterrestrial aliens.

Or maybe not. Maybe Ike just went to the dentist. There's some
dispute about this.

The Ike-met-with-ETs theory is advanced by Michael Salla, a
former American University professor who now runs the Peace
Ambassador Program at AU's Center for Global Peace.

The Ike-went-to-the-dentist theory is advanced by the folks at
the Dwight D. Eisenhower Library in Abilene, Kan. And by James
M. Mixson, a dentist, professor of dentistry and historian of
presidential dental work.

Just to make things more intriguing: On the night in question,
the Associated Press reported this: "Pres. Eisenhower died
tonight of a heart attack in Palm Springs."

Two minutes later, the AP retracted that bulletin and reported
that Ike was still alive.

Indeed, Ike was alive. And he continued living until 1969. But
in the decades since his death, his activities on the night of
Feb. 20, 1954, have become fodder for strange theories about
alien beings.

Some facts are beyond dispute: Eisenhower was on a golf vacation
in Palm Springs on Feb. 20, 1954. After dinner that night, he
made an unscheduled departure from the Smoking Tree Ranch, where
he was staying. The next morning, he attended a church service
in Los Angeles. Also that morning, his spokesman announced to
the press that Ike had visited a dentist the previous night
because he'd chipped a tooth while eating a chicken wing at
dinner.

Salla, who has a PhD in government from the University of
Queensland in his native Australia, doesn't believe it. He
figures the dentist trip is just a cover story. He believes Ike
went to Edwards Air Force Base, where he met with two ETs with
white hair, pale blue eyes and colorless lips.

These aliens - nicknamed "Nordics" in UFO circles because they
resemble Scandinavian humans - traveled to Edwards from another
solar system in a flying saucer and, Salla says, they spoke to
Eisenhower.

There was telepathic communication," says Salla, 45, as he sits
in his suburban Falls Church living room. "It's as though you're
hearing a person but they're not speaking."

The "Nordics" offered to share their superior technology and
their spiritual wisdom with Ike if he would agree to eliminate
America's nuclear weapons.

"They were afraid we might blow up some of our nuclear
technology," Salla says, "and apparently that does something to
time and space and it impacts on extraterrestrial races on other
planets."

Ike declined the ETs' offer, Salla says, because he did not want
to give up the nukes.

Sometime later in 1954, Ike reached a deal with another race of
extraterrestrials, known as the "Greys" - allowing them to
capture earthling cattle and humans for medical experiments,
provided that they returned the humans safely home. Since then,
Salla says, the "Greys" have kidnapped "millions" of humans.

Salla, author of "The Hero's Journey Toward a Second American
Century," published his ET theories in his new book,
"Exopolitics: Political Implications of the Extraterrestrial
Presence" and in an article on his "Exopolitics" Web site
(www.exopolitics.org).

For much of the '90s, Salla studied conflict resolution and
tried unsuccessfully to apply that knowledge to prevent war in
East Timor and the Balkans, he says. Frustrated, he began
looking for an extraterrestrial connection to human misery and,
he says, he found evidence of ET visitations - including the Ike
encounter - on the Internet.

"There's a lot of stuff on the Internet," he says, "and I just
went around and pieced it together."

Meanwhile, he taught at the School of International Service at
American University. In 2003 he founded the university's Peace
Ambassador Program, described on the AU Web site as a "summer
program that combines study, meditative practices, and prayer
ceremonies at selected Washington DC sites aimed at promoting
individual self-empowerment and Divine Governance in Washington
DC."

Salla stresses that his ET research is not connected with his
work at AU's Center for Global Peace. The folks at the Center
for Global Peace are also quite eager to stress that fact.

"The research that Michael Salla is doing is not research that
he is conducting on behalf of the center or in collaboration
with the center," says Betty Sitka, associate director of the
Center for Global Peace. "This is his own personal research."

Meanwhile, the question remains: Did Ike really meet with ETs 50
years ago?

"Not to our knowledge," says Jim Leyerzapf, an archivist at the
Eisenhower Library. "There's nothing in the archives that
indicates that."

Then Leyerzapf bursts out laughing.

He has heard this theory before. "We've had so many requests on
that subject that we have a person who specializes in this."

That person is archivist Herb Pankratz.

"He specialized in transportation," Leyerzapf says, "and we
decided to add UFOs to that. He does trains, planes, automobiles
- and flying saucers."

The library fielded dozens of questions about the alleged Ike-ET
meeting in the late '80s and early '90s, when several UFO books
advanced the theory, Pankratz says.

"It's interesting how these stories have changed," Pankratz
noted in an e-mail. "Initially, the accounts claimed the
President made a secret trip to Edwards Air Force Base to view
the remains of aliens who had crashed at Roswell, N.M., in 1947.
Later stories then claimed he had actually visited with live
aliens."

Pankratz doesn't buy either theory. He believes the dentist
story, and he cites James Mixson, the dental historian and
professor at the University of Missouri-Kansas City School of
Dentistry. Mixson's article "A History of Dwight D. Eisenhower's
Oral Health" - published in the November 1995 issue of the
Bulletin of the History of Dentistry - is the definitive work on
Ike's teeth.

Citing the U.S. surgeon general's records on Ike's medical and
dental history, opened to researchers in 1991, Mixson reported
that on the fateful night of Feb. 20, 1954, Ike chipped the
porcelain cap of his "upper left central incisor" and it was
repaired by Dr. Francis A. Purcell.

Alas, Purcell is unavailable for comment. He died in 1974,
according to Pankratz.

"The lack of a dental record from Purcell's office," Mixson
wrote, "has helped fuel belief in this UFO encounter."

But, Mixson quickly added, "the President had well-documented
difficulties with this crown."

Indeed, the crown, which was installed in July 1952, was chipped
and repaired in December 1952, the February in question, and
again in July 1954, when the president's dentist, Col. James M.
Fairchild, replaced it with a "thin cast gold/platinum thimble
crown."

That may be more than you wanted to know about Ike's dental
work. If not, Mixson goes on at some length, quoting a long,
lyrical passage written by Fairchild on this troublesome
presidential incisor.

Meanwhile, there's another perplexing question: Why did the AP
report that Ike died that night?

"Somebody was fooling around and it went out," Pankratz says.
"It wasn't supposed to go out but it did."

Ike never made any public statement about meeting ETs, Pankratz
says. But did he perhaps spill the beans to his family? Ike's
son, John S.D. Eisenhower, is a retired Army brigadier general
and author of several books on history, including "General Ike:
A Personal Reminiscence."

Asked via e-mail if his father had ever mentioned meeting with
aliens, Eisenhower responded with a short but emphatic reply:







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   Feb > Feb 19

                Extraterrestrial Visitor In Russian Province

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 08:04:03 -0800
Fwd Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 13:49:23 -0500
Subject: Extraterrestrial Visitor In Russian Province


Source: Pravda

http://pravda.us/science/19/94/378/12092_alien.html

02/18/2004


Extraterrestrial Visitor In Russian Province

Research of the clothes alien Aleshenka (found in the Ural
region) was wrapped in, revealed that this creature has nothing
in common with human being, it is an alien, Moscow expert on
UFOs Vadim Chernobrov said in interview to Chelyabinsk media.
This sensation goes back to 1996 to village Kaolinovy near the
provincial town of Kyshtym in Chelyabinsk region.

On August 13, 1996 pensioner Tamara Vasilievna Prosvirina went
to the village cemetery. Poor old lady suffered from psychiatric
disease, and her perception of the surrounding world was weird.
She used to gather flowers from the graves and decorated her
room with these flowers almost every day.

In the evening the woman had supper and went to bed. Suddenly
strange "voice" aroused in her brain. It requested Tamara
Vasilievna to go to the cemetery again. The lady got dressed,
took her torch and went out.

Huge eyes were staring at her out of the closest grave mound.
The pensioner approached the grave and saw a strange creature
about 25 centimeters in height. This was not a human being.

Tiny onion-shaped head looked like it was composed of five
petals. The little creature had no ears, huge slanting catlike
eyes occupied the biggest part of its face. The creature could
not talk, but it started whistling quietly to attract the lady"s
attention. Probably in this manner the alien was communicating
in its planet.

The pensioner took the creature to her place. At home she
started examining the alien. The body of Aleshenka (the
diminutive name she gave to the creature) was plump and was
swaying like jelly. The skin on the body was gray and with dark
spots in brown on the head. No hair, small holes instead of
ears. Small flat nose enabled the creature to breath.

Dark-gray eyes. No eye-lids. The vertical pupils of the eyes
were constantly narrowing and expanding.

Long fingers had small sharp claws. No genitals revealing
creature"s sex. The creature had no navel which all mammals
have.

The woman could not figure out how to feed Aleshenka. Its mouth
resembled a tiny hole and had no lips, but it could stretch
itself widely. The alien had a complete set of teeth, but too
small lower jaw and huge scarlet tongue occupying almost all the
mouth cavity disturbed chewing process for it. Tamara Vasilievna
put a caramel candy into the creature"s mouth, and the alien
started sucking the candy. The lady was gave Aleshenka some milk
and water with a tea-spoon.

Moist sweat appeared onto the alien"s body after eating.
Aleshenka started disseminating sweet smell soaking clothes and
furniture. Tamara Vasilieva wiped Aleshenka with a rag from time
to time. The creature was lying and did not move most of the
time. From time to time it started stretching its legs.

The next day all the villagers heard of the news: the woman was
telling everybody that she got a child and his name is Aleshenka
Cute. At first many people thought the child just seemed to
Tamara Vasilievna resulting from her disease. However, one day
the pensioner"s daughter-in-law (also named Tamara) came to her
place. After sitting and talking in the kitchen for a while, the
old lady said it was time to feed her child. Her daughter-in-law
followed the lady into another room and saw the weird creature
wrapped into swaddling band.

Both the daughter-in-law and her mother saw the creature, but
they did not report the police about it. They say if Aleshenka
was a human child, they would report the police. The creature
was not a human being, consequently it was an animal, and there
is no reason to report anywhere about it. "Let it be Tamara
Vasilievna"s pet. She will take care of it, and she will have
something to do", the women decided.

However, a neighbor reported about Tamara Vasilievna to
psychiatrists, and one day ambulance came and took the woman to
psychiatric hospital. Tamara Vasilievna tried to explain that
she left a child in the house, but the doctors did not take her
words seriously. The lady"s relatives were not aware of her
being taken to hospital, and therefore there was nobody to feed
the creature. Soon it died of thirst and hunger. After the
alien"s death, its body started drying out and becoming
mummified.

Only one person, Vladimir Nurdinov remembered about the
creature. He used to come to Tamara Vasilievna"s place, and saw
Aleshenka. After hearing that the lady was taken to hospital,
the man came to her apartment to take Aleshenka to his house. He
was too late, Aleshenka was dead. Dry mummy was lying in bed.

Nurdinov took the mummy to his place. He did not know what to do
with it. Soon the police came to the man"s apartment - he was
suspected of stealing power cable in Novogorny village. The
policemen decided this was the mummy of a child and took it for
expertise.

However, doctors claimed the mummified creature has minimum 20
features distinguishing it from a human being. Medical experts
rejected the idea that Aleshenka could be a mutant child. During
the second expertise, some doctors had this version. The town of
Kyshtym is situated in the area contaminated after the accident
at the secret object in Chelyabinsk-40 town in 1957. After the
accident, freaks are born in the area from time to time. After
taking the body from the expertise, the police investigator
started researching the version of extraterrestrial visitor in
his unofficial investigation - his bosses prohibited him from
"doing nonsense".

The investigator decided to ask UFO expert organization called
"Star Academy UFO-Contact in Zolotov Method". The Academy was
200 kilometers away, in the town of Kamensk-Uralsky of
Sverdlovsk region. Organization Head Galina Semenkova took the
mummified body to conduct its astral expertise. After that the
investigator was unable to contact her: the woman"s relatives
responded to the phone calls that she "went shopping", "went for
a walk" or "is away on a trip". Only recently Galina Semenkova
said at the seminar on UFOs in Tokyo what had happened to
Aleshenka remains. According to Semenkova, when she was carrying
the mummy from Kyshtym to her town, flying saucer appeared in
the sky. Her vehicle engine stopped working. Aliens from the
flying saucer demanded the body of their dead fellow, and the
woman gave them the body immediately.

The detective story of the little alien continued. Japanese TV
crew phoned Tamara Vasilievna"s relatives. The Japanese were
working on a documentary about Aleshenka and wanted to interview
the lady. However, just several days before the Japanese TV crew
arrival, tragedy happened. Late at night on August 5, 1999
Tamara Vasilievna somehow showed up on the highway. The
psychiatric hospital patient was absolutely naked, the only
garment the woman was wearing were socks. Eye-witnesses say it
looked like the woman was reacting to somebody"s call. People
wanted to take the woman off the highway, but were too late: two
vehicles ran into the place where the poor sick lady was
standing and caused her instant death.

In 1997 the announcement was posted in the Internet on sale of
the mummy of extraterrestrial visitor found in Russia. What is
this? Is somebody selling fake mummy of the well-known alien?
Maybe no aliens took the mummy to their planet? Probably both
the statements are correct. Selling fake mummies of Aleshenka
became profitable business. Aliens from Alfa-Centaurus did not
stop the woman's vehicle. The mummy is likely to be under the
research in some special services laboratory, or just destroyed
because of careless treatment. Aleshenka"s remains may also be
in the collection of some rich man fond of UFOs.

Aleshenka"s story is still in progress. Japanese decided to
sponsor erecting the monument to the alien. Ordinary Japanese
donated money for the monument after seeing the documentary
"Traces of alien Aleshenka" by Asahi TV company.


Marin Khlybova










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   Feb > Feb 19

                  Re: Raelians Commemorate Giordano Bruno's

From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg.nul>
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 09:41:26 -0600
Fwd Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 13:50:50 -0500
Subject: Re: Raelians Commemorate Giordano Bruno's


>From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 09:38:01 +0100
>Subject: Re: Raelians Commemorate Giordano Bruno's Assassination

>>From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 07:31:43 -0600
>>Subject: Re: Raelians Commemorate Giordano Bruno's Assassination

>>>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 20:16:35 -0800
>>>Subject: Raelians Commemorate Giordano Bruno's Assassination

>>>Source: Scoop

>>>http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/CU0402/S00160.htm

>>>16 February 2004

>>>Raelian Commemorate Giordano Bruno's Assassination

>>>Press Release: Raelian Movement

>>>The Raelian Movement commemorates the assassination of Giordano
>>>Bruno by a 'Planetary day of mourning' in his memory

>>...Even the broken clock can be right two times a day.

>Yes!

>And there are heroes to commemorate twice a month.

Well, you'll generate a significant amount of conversation from
me if you're suggesting that the monk be among them, sir.

>BTW, If you are broke, try to meet an ET on a mountain,
>and launch a new sect, like Rael did in 1973.

The mountain is the key. That's why the one I'd meet out near
the compost heap wouldn't count for much. ...Coffee grounds
burning in a flame that didn't consume them... location,
location, location...

Lehmberg.nul

EXPLORE "AlienViewGroup" at its HostPros URL.
http://www.alienview.net


JOHN FORD RESTORATION FUND -- John will be released eventually.
He'll need a tax free cash stake to get on his feet. Let's put
one together for him; the bigger it is -- the more attention
he gets. It could have been you. E-mail for detail.
$450.00 pledged -- $200.00 collected!

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite.
What others see from afar, I leave far behind me."
- Giordano Bruno, scourged by the scabrously specious scurrilous.








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                    Re: Bearden's Mail Order Ph.D - Shell

From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 10:06:51 -0600
Fwd Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 13:52:12 -0500
Subject: Re: Bearden's Mail Order Ph.D - Shell


>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
>To: Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 02:29:44 -0800
>Subject: Bearden's Mail Order Ph.D

>Earlier I asked where T.W. Bearden got his Ph.D.
>Judging from his BS, and his MS (apparently genuine)
>its a fair question.

>Bearden's "Ph.D" was in "Life Experience"... a prestigious
>degree which my lemon tree could earn after proper remuneration
>of course.


So his Ph.D is apparently as virtual as his free-energy photonic
flux.








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                  Re: Raelians Commemorate Giordano Bruno's

From: Terry Groff <terry.nul>
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 11:26:46 -0600
Fwd Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 14:21:56 -0500
Subject: Re: Raelians Commemorate Giordano Bruno's


>From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 09:38:01 +0100
>Subject: Re: Raelians Commemorate Giordano Bruno's Assassination

<snip>

>>>Raelian Commemorate Giordano Bruno's Assassination

>>>Press Release: Raelian Movement

>>>The Raelian Movement commemorates the assassination of
Giordano
>>>Bruno by a 'Planetary day of mourning' in his memory

>>...Even the broken clock can be right two times a day.

>Yes!

>And there are heroes to commemorate twice a month.
>BTW, If you are broke, try to meet an ET on a mountain,
>and launch a new sect, like Rael did in 1973.

Dang. The ET I met on the mountain told me to become a bass
player in a Blues band and now I _am_ broke.  :-)

Terry








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                      Re: 1956 Lunar Path Light - Velez

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 13:17:00 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 14:24:08 -0500
Subject: Re: 1956 Lunar Path Light - Velez


>From: Amy Hebert <vanguard.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 12:56:32 -0600
>Subject: Re: 1956 Lunar Path Light

>>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 17:30:36 -0500
>>Subject: Re: 1956 Lunar Path Light

>>>From: James Oberg <joberg.nul>
>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 07:18:23 -0600
>>>Subject: Re: 1956 Lunar Path Light

>>>>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
>>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>>Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 17:11:45 -0500
>>>>Subject: Re: 1956 Lunar Path Light - Velez

>>>>Has anyone mentioned the possibility that the bright object in
>>>>the photograph may be 'intra-atmospheric' and nowhere near the
>>>>surface of the moon at all?

>>>Am I the only one curious about missing data such as date/time
>>>of the image and the reported angular rate across the face of
>>>the Moon? Seems to me that obtaining such information would go a
>>>long way towards constraining the speculations that have been
>>>offered.

>>Herr Oberg,

>>Ya know, part of the reason why I always call you 'Herr Oberg'
>>has to do with your 'brown-shirt' attitude toward myself and
>>others in regard to force feeding us what _you_ think we should
>>or should not be saying.

>>Instead of being so concerned about "constraining" my comments
>>maybe you should pay some attention to problems that are closer
>>to home, such as dealing with your own serious, (not to mention
>>rather annoying) 'control' issues.

>>If you were raised as a Christian you'll recognize the reference
>>I'm sure:

>Dear John, James, List:

Hello List,

In my last response to Amy Hebert this next paragraph should have
read as follows:

>Am I (or any one else) not allowed to respond _in_kind_ to snide
>remarks and insults? It seems like I cannot post a word to this
>list without _you_ jumping in and posting yet another unsolicited
>'critique' of it. Somehow it's ok with you if people throw insults
>around or consistently  misinterpret and twist the meaning of
>what I might say, but heaven forbid if I choose not to take it.

>If you don't like or understand what you read in a post... trash it
>and move on. Simple!

A piece of one of the sentences was cut off accidentally in the
original. I just wanted to post the correct version.


John Velez








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                          Secrecy News -- 02/19/04

From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood.nul>
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 12:50:48 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 14:30:10 -0500
Subject: Secrecy News -- 02/19/04


SECRECY NEWS
from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy
Volume 2004, Issue No. 20
February 19, 2004


**      LOST AND FOUND: LOS ALAMOS TECHNICAL REPORTS
**      A REVIEW OF CRITICALITY ACCIDENTS
**      ENRICO FERMI: "WHERE IS EVERYBODY?"
**      DOE REPORT ON INADVERTENT DISCLOSURES
**      BOOK: THE CONDOR YEARS
**      INTELLIGENCE REVIEW FOREVER


LOST AND FOUND: LOS ALAMOS TECHNICAL REPORTS

In 1997, as part of its "Library Without Walls" project, Los
Alamos National Laboratory began offering online public access
to thousands of unclassified reports reflecting fifty years of
research in nuclear science and technology, and related topics.

Five years later, as part of the post-September 11 purge of
government web sites, public access to this material was
terminated.

But in a spectacular information-salvage operation, most of
these Los Alamos documents, comprising nearly ten gigabytes,
were acquired and preserved by independent researchers Gregory
Walker and Carey Sublette.

"We archived them," said Sublette, "before the 'Library Without
Walls' became the 'Library of Walls'."

Indexes of the recovered Los Alamos reports are posted here:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/othergov/doe/lanl/index.html

Selected reports of special interest will be posted in weeks and
months to come. As time and disk space allow, Secrecy News will
entertain requests to post particular documents listed in the
indexes.


A REVIEW OF CRITICALITY ACCIDENTS

Among the Los Alamos documents preserved by Walker and Sublette
is a 1967 account of all known nuclear "criticality" accidents
as of that time.

A criticality accident is an unintended acceleration of the
chain reaction of neutrons in a mass of fissile material. In a
worst case scenario, supercriticality can lead to fuel melting
and explosion. Of 34 criticality incidents identified by the Los
Alamos report, six of them resulted in a total of eight deaths.

Does public access to such reports matter? Would an ordinary
member of the public have any interest in a technical account of
past criticality accidents?

The answer is yes. In fact, twenty years ago the history of
nuclear reactor criticality accidents was at the center of a
public dispute over the safety of the small research reactor on
the UCLA campus before it was permanently shut down in 1984.

The Los Angeles-based Committee to Bridge the Gap, led by Dan
Hirsch, successfully challenged relicensing of the UCLA reactor
after pointing out that the water-cooled, graphite moderated
reactor core had positive reactivity coefficients, a significant
design flaw, and was vulnerable to an accidental power
excursion. Public access to technical reports bearing on the
problem played a crucial role in clarifying the issue and
ensuring public safety.

See "A Review of Criticality Accidents" by William R. Stratton,
Los Alamos Scientific Laboratory report number LA-3611, January
1967 (112 pages, 3.9 MB PDF file):

http://www.fas.org/sgp/othergov/doe/lanl/la-3611.pdf


ENRICO FERMI: "WHERE IS EVERYBODY?"

According to an often repeated anecdote, physicist Enrico Fermi
once wondered aloud about the existence of extraterrestrial
beings and why they had not shown up on Earth: "Where is
everybody?"

In another Los Alamos report that was withdrawn from online
public access, Los Alamos scientist Eric M. Jones tracked down
the three colleagues with whom Fermi discussed the matter --
 Edward Teller, Herbert York, and Emil Konopinski -- and
obtained their written recollections of the 1950 conversation.

See "'Where is Everybody?': An Account of Fermi's Question," Los
Alamos National Laboratory report number LA-10311-MS, March 1985
(17 pages, 1 MB PDF file):

http://www.fas.org/sgp/othergov/doe/lanl/la-10311-ms.pdf


DOE REPORT ON INADVERTENT DISCLOSURES

The Department of Energy this week published its most recent
periodic report on inadvertent disclosures of classified nuclear
weapons information in declassified files at the National
Archives.

Out of 1.2 million pages reviewed, DOE officials identified 574
pages containing classified information that should not have
been disclosed. The most frequently identified subject of the
inadvertent disclosures concerned "storage locations" (of
nuclear weapons) and "stockpile quantities."

The value of this archival document hunt is questionable.

Considering that validated nuclear weapons designs and
production equipment are reportedly in international
circulation, and that thousands of kilograms of highly enriched
uranium exported by the U.S. have yet to be recovered, the
dogged pursuit of inadvertently disclosed historical details,
"classified" though they may be, seems more and more absurd.

See the Twelfth Report on Inadvertent Releases of Restricted
Data and Formerly Restricted Data under Executive Order 12958,
August 2003, declassified version released February 2004:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/othergov/doe/inadvertent12.pdf


BOOK: THE CONDOR YEARS

From 1973 to 1980, military dictatorships in Chile, Argentina,
Uruguay, Bolivia, Paraguay and Brazil collaborated in an
alliance known "Condor." The alliance employed the full
apparatus of torture, "disappearances," and other extreme human
rights abuses in the name of combating Marxist insurgents.
Thousands of innocent civilians were killed.

Investigative journalist John Dinges tells the story of Condor,
and fills in many heretofore missing gaps in the record, in a
well-received new book called "The Condor Years: How Pinochet
and His Allies Brought Terrorism to Three Continents." See:

http://www.johndinges.com/condor/

Some of the documents obtained by Dinges, regarding an
assassination threat against former New York mayor Ed Koch, were
published by the National Security Archive, where he is a
fellow. See:

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB112/index.htm


INTELLIGENCE REVIEW FOREVER

The state of U.S. intelligence is such that "It is not
surprising that hypotheses tend to harden into dogma, that their
sensitivity to changed conditions is not articulated, and that
new data are not sought to test them."

Remarkably, this critique of intelligence comes from the CIA
itself. And as perfectly apt as it may sound today, it was
written in 1971.

The same critique notes an imbalance between collection and
analysis, tensions between civilian and military intelligence,
and the structural weakness that limits the effectiveness of the
DCI.

The enduring relevance of these and other criticisms more than
30 years later suggests that efforts to reform the U.S.
intelligence bureaucracy are futile and possibly diversionary.

See "A Review of the Intelligence Community," March 10, 1971,
released in declassified form in 1998 (50 pages, 800 KB PDF
file):

http://www.fas.org/irp/cia/product/review1971.pdf


_______________________________________________
Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the
Federation of American Scientists.

To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to
secrecy_news-request.nul
with "subscribe" in the body of the message.

OR email your request to saftergood.nul

Secrecy News is archived at:
http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html

_______________________
Steven Aftergood
Project on Government Secrecy
Federation of American Scientists
web:  www.fas.org/sgp/index.html
email: saftergood.nul
voice: (202) 454-4691








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                       Re: Excalibur Briefing - Geiger

From: Bob Geiger <rbgeiger.nul>
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 13:13:27 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 14:32:24 -0500
Subject: Re: Excalibur Briefing - Geiger


>From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 08:22:28 -0600
>Subject: Re: Excalibur Briefing

<snip>

>Shoes for industry!

Shoes for the dead!








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                        Re: Excalibur Briefing - Hall

From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 18:40:46 +0000
Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 07:58:07 -0500
Subject: Re: Excalibur Briefing - Hall


>From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 08:22:28 -0600
>Subject: Re: Excalibur Briefing

>>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 14:36:21 -0800
>>Subject: Re: Excalibur Briefing

<snip>

>>If Bearden has the secret to free energy from virtual photons
>>(or whatever) he should be very, very rich by now. The Japanese
>>would be all over it for one thing, even if somehow overlooked
>>here.

>No, man, you don't get it! The oil companies, working with the
>Illuminati and the reptilian aliens would never let it come out
>because it would mean the collapse of world government, the
>Vatican, and eBay! They did the same thing with the 100-MPG
>carburetor in the 1960's.

>Don't be fooled. The Bush Family, Henry Kissigner, the Saudi
>Arabian monarchy, Steven Spielberg, Carrot Top, and the Masons
>are all working together to keep us slaves. And there ain't
>nothin' any of us can do because of the chips implanted in our
>heads that are controlled by subspace radio signals from a
>secret black satellite at the L5 points between earth and the
>moon. They hide in plain sight! That's what the Prozac is for!

>Shoes for industry!

Tim,

Finally! Someone has got it right. But you overlooked the
Government-alien hybrids.

 - Dick










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                   Re: Bearden's Mail Order Ph.D - Shough

From: Martin Shough <mshough.nul>
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 19:40:18 -0000
Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 08:15:43 -0500
Subject: Re: Bearden's Mail Order Ph.D - Shough


>From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 10:06:51 -0600
>Subject: Re: Bearden's Mail Order Ph.D

>>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
>>To: Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 02:29:44 -0800
>>Subject: Bearden's Mail Order Ph.D

>>Earlier I asked where T.W. Bearden got his Ph.D.
>>Judging from his BS, and his MS (apparently genuine)
>>its a fair question.

>>Bearden's "Ph.D" was in "Life Experience"... a prestigious
>>degree which my lemon tree could earn after proper remuneration
>>of course.

>So his Ph.D is apparently as virtual as his free-energy photonic
>flux.

Hi Tim Shell

Here's a second chance for you to ignore my reply to your first
post.

Bearden may be wrong (I know nothing about him or his ideas) but
in fact the 'machinery' appealed to by Bearden according to this
quotation is conventional. If you accept the reigning paradigm
of quantum mechanics then you are wrong to sneer at the notion
of virtual charges, and the dipole he describes is quite valid.
This is called vacuum polarization. Because the quantum vacuum
surrounding an electron (say) supposedly gives rise to virtual
particles of all possible kinds, including particles of opposite
charge, there is calculated to be a net concentration of these
opposite and attracting virtual positrons surrounding it, whose
influence will be to minutely alter the effective charge on the
electron. This difference can be measured, and it exists. It is
precisely equal to the one predicted by vacuum polarisation.

The transduction he refers to would seem maybe to have something
to do with the constraining of possible virtual em wavelengths
by the 'gaps' in the charge dipole. By acting to reduce the
number of _negative-energy_ modes in the vacuum the pairs of
particles contribute a net positive energy to the field. If this
is what he's getting at, then this is related to the Casimir
effect, and again it is well 'understood' in QED.

As for the electromagnetic potential going to infinity, this is
a basic requirement of an electromagnetic gauge theory of
massless gauge bosons, which is what photons are. So again this
is in itself a harmless statement.

Whether or not the theory that Bearden then launches from this
platform is a valid theory is obviously a different question.


Martin Shough







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                       Re: Excalibur Briefing - Kaeser

From: Steven Kaeser <steve.nul>
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 14:55:31 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 08:16:55 -0500
Subject: Re: Excalibur Briefing - Kaeser


>From: Bob Geiger <rbgeiger.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 13:13:27 -0500
>Subject: Re: Excalibur Briefing

>>From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 08:22:28 -0600
>>Subject: Re: Excalibur Briefing

><snip>

>>Shoes for industry!

>Shoes for the dead!

Okay, okay, so we're ALL bozos on this bus.....







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                  Re: Raelians Commemorate Giordano Bruno's

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 14:59:45 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 08:18:03 -0500
Subject: Re: Raelians Commemorate Giordano Bruno's


>From: Terry Groff <terry.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 11:26:46 -0600
>Subject: Re: Raelians Commemorate Giordano Bruno's Assassination

>>From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 09:38:01 +0100
>>Subject: Re: Raelians Commemorate Giordano Bruno's Assassination

><snip>

>>>>Raelian Commemorate Giordano Bruno's Assassination

>>>>Press Release: Raelian Movement

>>>>The Raelian Movement commemorates the assassination of
>Giordano
>>>>Bruno by a 'Planetary day of mourning' in his memory

>>>...Even the broken clock can be right two times a day.

>>Yes!

>>And there are heroes to commemorate twice a month.
>>BTW, If you are broke, try to meet an ET on a mountain,
>>and launch a new sect, like Rael did in 1973.

Hi Terry,

You wrote:

>Dang. The ET I met on the mountain told me to become a bass
>player in a Blues band and now I _am_ broke.  :-)

<LOL> I'm an abductee drummer in a Blues band with an interest
in ufology, the dreaded triple-whammy! I'm so poor that, when I
go to Kentucky Fried Chicken I have to lick other people's
fingers!

Funny response, Terry. I hear you a-cryin' da Blues!

PS- Check out John Mayall's latest, 'Stories'... not bad for a
70 year old knock-about. I hope I can still swing that hard (if)
I ever reach that age.


Regards,

John Velez







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                 Apollo 16 Film [was: 1956 Lunar Path Light]

From: Lan Fleming <lfleming5.nul>
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 14:05:43 -0600
Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 08:21:26 -0500
Subject: Apollo 16 Film [was: 1956 Lunar Path Light]


>From: James Oberg <joberg.nul>
>To: UFO Updates <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 07:13:49 -0600
>Subject: Re: 1956 Lunar Path Light - Oberg

>>From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 15:24:37 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
>>Subject: Re: 1956 Lunar Path Light

>>If you cannot get this issue of JSE through the inter-library loan
>>system, you should be able to get a complete reprint (including
>>the amazing images of an object which looks very much like a
>>classic flying saucer) ...

<snip>

>I would like to determine whether the author interviewed any of
>the witnesses or read any of the transcripts of the air-to-
>ground and the mission debriefings, or viewed any of the other
>imagery from the mission especially during this flight phase [as
>well as imagery from other missions in similar flight phases].
>And if the author did not, I am interested in his excuse.

Perhaps the "excuse" would be that there _were_ no witnesses.
Mr. Oberg has said he interviewed the Apollo 16 astronauts and
they didn't see anything, despite the fact that their camera did
see something. As in the case of the STS-48 and STS-80 videos,
the camera is the ONLY "witness."

>I would also like to determine how the author decided my opinion
>of the photograph without - as far as I can remember - asking
>me.


Mr. Oberg has been giving out his opinion for free for quite
some time now. One place he posted it is:

http://www.edmitchellapollo14.com/wwwboard/messages/2094.html#followups

What's puzzling to me is that his description of the Apollo 16
film bears little resemblance to what is shown in the version
available all over the place on the net. Here are two sources,
for those who'd like to see it for themselves:

http://www.ufocasebook.com/bestapollo16.avi

http://www.geocities.com/futureshock2000/apollo16ufo.zip
(mpeg format)

In the post at the first link I cited, Mr. Oberg stated:

"After discussion on the internet, a photo technician suggested
it is a reflection of the sunlit camera lens in the Apollo
window. Support for this view is that as the hand-held camera
'jerks' back and forth, the image seems to move twice as far as
the image of the moon itself, indicated the image is not of
something bright outside the window. ..."

Running the mpeg movie slower than real time, I saw no movement
of the "image" relative to the Moon whatsoever. I couldn't find
any relative motion after measuring distances on frames grabbed
from the movie, either. Perhaps there's a version of the film
showing this relative motion, but it's not in the6-second movie
I've seen.

Oberg continues:

"...Also, the portion of the illuminated arc changes during the
sequence, as if the sunlit round object moved in and out
relative to the shadow of the window's edge. "

What the mpeg shows is that the camera pans to the right and
then back to the "object" about 5 seconds later. The illuminated
arc was considerably narrower than it was before the the camera
was jerked away. And the object (or image, if you like) was at
almost precisely the same position relative to the Moon that it
was when it first appeared.

Finally, Oberg states:

"Note also that the image is always off to the side of the
camera's main pointing, which is towards the receding moon. This
is further indication that the photographer saw nothing unusual
in his viewfinder, if he even noticed the image at all."


Unless the version I've seen is incomplete, the object is almost
dead-center in the frame when it first appears (the very first
frame of the mpeg). It's about 1/4 the way from the left edge in
the last frame when the camera pans back to it.

The lack of motion relative to the Moon indicates that the
object was not the camera lens (again, with the caveat that the
6-second version of the movie I've seen may not be incomplete).
However, I wouldn't reject the possibility that it might be a
reflection caused by some other light source other than the
camera lens in the small space of the Apollo command module
without more information. I'd be interested to read the JSE
paper to see if the author considered the reflection
possibility.





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                       Re: Excalibur Briefing - Rimmer

From: John Rimmer <jrimmer.nul>
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 23:54:52 +0000
Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 08:44:41 -0500
Subject: Re: Excalibur Briefing - Rimmer


>From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 08:22:28 -0600
>Subject: Re: Excalibur Briefing

>No, man, you don't get it! The oil companies, working with the
>Illuminati and the reptilian aliens would never let it come out
>because it would mean the collapse of world government, the
>Vatican, and eBay! They did the same thing with the 100-MPG
>carburetor in the 1960's.

>Don't be fooled. The Bush Family, Henry Kissigner, the Saudi
>Arabian monarchy, Steven Spielberg, Carrot Top, and the Masons
>are all working together to keep us slaves. And there ain't
>nothin' any of us can do because of the chips implanted in our
>heads that are controlled by subspace radio signals from a
>secret black satellite at the L5 points between earth and the
>moon. They hide in plain sight! That's what the Prozac is for!

Hey, c'mon, be fair! What about evil the Magonian Pelicanists?
What's the point of being in a hidden, super-secret, underground
conspiracy if everyone doesn't know you're in it?


John Rimmer
Magonia Magazine
www.magonia.demon.co.uk/arc/00/newmag.htm







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                 CI: The 'Mainstream' Considers Mud on Mars

From: Mac Tonnies <macbot.nul>
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 23:19:53 -0800 (PST)
Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 09:41:37 -0500
Subject: CI: The 'Mainstream' Considers Mud on Mars



Cydonian Imperative
2-20-04

The "Mainstream" Considers Mud on Mars

See: http://www.mactonnies.com/cydonia.html

[image]

"Laguna Hollow" photographed by the Spirit rover.

[external link] Scientists Searching for Martian Water
Say Rover May Have Found Mud.

JPL: "To help scientists get a better look at the variations in
the fine-grained dust at different depths, controllers commanded
Spirit to 'jiggle' its wheels in the soil before backing away to
a distance that allows the area to be reached with the robotic
arm. Spirit will likely spend part of sol 46 analyzing this area
with the instruments on its robotic arm."







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                    Re: Bearden's Mail Order Ph.D - Hatch

From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 00:47:05 -0800
Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 10:09:43 -0500
Subject: Re: Bearden's Mail Order Ph.D - Hatch



>From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 10:06:51 -0600
>Subject: Re: Bearden's Mail Order Ph.D

>>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
>>To: Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 02:29:44 -0800
>>Subject: Bearden's Mail Order Ph.D

>>Earlier I asked where T.W. Bearden got his Ph.D.
>>Judging from his BS, and his MS (apparently genuine)
>>its a fair question.

>>Bearden's "Ph.D" was in "Life Experience"... a prestigious
>>degree which my lemon tree could earn after proper remuneration
>>of course.

>So his Ph.D is apparently as virtual as his free-energy
>photonic flux.

- - -

Hi Tim:

Well, nearly so. I'm sure they presented Doctor Bearden with a
nice Ph.Diploma, suitable for framing. As far as I can tell,
there are no physical artifacts associated with 'free-energy
photonic flux'.

I considered a nice Ph.D in Ufology, but I haven't gotten my
master's yet. I fear the most affordable diploma mills issue
xerox paper diplomas. None too impressive. I could get a star
named after my lemon tree, but have better use for the funds.


Best

- Larry







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                     Cuba Wins Award For UFO Documentary

From: Scott Corrales <lornis1.nul>
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 09:17:01 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 11:00:31 -0500
Subject: Cuba Wins Award For UFO Documentary



INEXPLICATA
The Journal of Hispanic Ufology
February 19, 2004


SOURCE: Terra.cl
DATE: February 17, 2004

CUBA WINS AWARD FOR UFO DOCUMENTARY

Cuban producer was awarded the top award at the Vina del Mar UFO
film festival, which attracted over 500 persons this weekend.

VI=D1A DEL MAR, Februar 16.- "Ovnis en Cuba: 50 a=F1os de Misterio"
was the audiovisual production that won the alien statuette at
the First Latin American UFO Documentary Festival, an event that
ended yesterday after an intensive day of UFO projections at the
Vina de Mar Municipal Theater.

Event organizers told Terra.cl that at least 500 people attended
the event, which was organized by the AION UFO research group.
 organizadores del evento, al menos unas 500 personas se dieron
cita al evento convocado.

The competition had a jury made up of renowned national and
international ufologists who ruled unanimously that the winning
video was an audiovisual production by Antonio Cortazar, who
presented hitherto unseen images taken in Havana and other
island locations. Cortazar is the current vicepresident of the
Cuban Writers and Intellectuals Society.

Honorable mentions were given to two other productions from
Brazil and Germany.

UFO buffs were able to enjoy cases collected by researcher
Carlos Mu=F1oz in Punta Arenas, as well as the work of analyst
Eugenio Ford, who presented CEFAA's latest computer analyses on
UFO sightings in  Santiago, Iquique and Vi=F1a del Mar.

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

Translation (C) 2004 Scott Corrales Institute of Hispanic Ufology
Special thanks to Christian Quintero, Planeta UFO











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                                   BLURFOs

From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22.nul>
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 05:29:14 -0800
Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 11:07:36 -0500
Subject: BLURFOs


We have a real problem. Lately, anything that streaks across a
digital camera lens or video cam is being hailed as a flying
saucer or UFO photo....

Read more about it and see the illustrations at:

http://www.rense.com/general49/blurfo.htm


Bill Hamilton










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                             Is It Or Isn't It?

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 06:05:20 -0800
Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 11:17:59 -0500
Subject: Is It Or Isn't It?



Source: The Daily Record - Glasgow, Scotland

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/content_objectid=13969350_method=full_siteid=8
9488_headline=-IS-IT-OR-ISN-T-IT--name_page.html

Feb 20 2004


Is It Or Isn't It?

'Flying saucer' Pictures Stun UFO Watchers

By Mark Mcgivern

Remarkable pictures of what seems to be a flying saucer hovering
over houses have sent UFO watchers wild.

An amateur photographer captured the images when he was trying
out his new hi-tech digital camera at night.

They show what some experts are convinced is a UFO hovering
above Plymouth. A photographic expert has said the pictures
appear to be genuine and not faked in any way.

The pictures were taken by a Devonport Dockyard worker who
wishes to remain anonymous. The Royal Navy has already asked to
study the snaps.

Plymouth 'UFO-logist' Bob Boyd has called the snaps among the
best five pictures of a UFO he has seen in25years of spotting
the phenomena.

Boyd, chairman of the Plymouth UFO Research Group, said:
'There's no doubt in mymind it's the real thing.'

The photographer was put in touch with the UFO Research Group.

Boyd said: 'He was just experimenting with his new camera and
was amazed when he looked at the photographs an hour later.

'He was a total sceptic before this but he's now a firm
believer. He was really shocked by what happened.'

The photographs were taken on January 28, just before 6pm, at St
Budeaux Square in the Devon city.

Daily Record Picture Editor Stuart Nicol was more sceptical. He
said: 'It could be a number of things.

'What concerns me most is that the images of the UFO are sharp
but there is a degree of movement in the landscape.'










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                        Ike And The Alien Ambassadors

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 11:24:15 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 11:24:15 -0500
Subject: Ike And The Alien Ambassadors

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A53203-2004Feb18.html

02-18-04


Ike And The Alien Ambassadors

By Peter Carlson

Fifty  years ago tomorrow - on Feb. 20, 1954 - President Dwight
Eisenhower interrupted his vacation in Palm Springs, Calif., to
make a secret nocturnal trip to a nearby Air Force base to meet
two extraterrestrial aliens.

Or maybe not. Maybe Ike just went to the dentist. There's some
dispute about this.

The Ike-met-with-ETs theory is advanced by Michael Salla, a former
American University professor who now runs the Peace Ambassador
Program at AU's Center for Global Peace.








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                               The Illuminati

From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 11:35:01 EST
Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 12:59:46 -0500
Subject: The Illuminati


Okay, sometimes in this area of research things can go from
weird to weirder to weirdest.

For my entire life I've heard these stories and such about
secret global cabals in particular the 'Illuminati'.

At first when I was a kid I thought it was a rock band. Finding
no LPs or 45s at the time I brushed it off.

Then in the mid 70s my mom was yelling about a book called "Holy
Blood, Holy Grail". I read a bit of it and tossed it off as too
bizarre.

Yet as the years have rolled on, (Bob Seger instumental here)
these secret groups have come to the fore more often than most
franchise sports teams I know.

Then while doing more research I ran into a doctor I know who
was part of this group. What he told me and confirmed for me
shook me up. The last bit of data on this group and groups like
it came in a couple of weeks ago. Confirmed.

So I have to apologize to all the folks I didn't pay attention
to regarding these issues. Teaches me a lesson for being hard
headed and arrogant. Considering how people react to UFO
research I had to flip things and realize I was reacting
unprofessionally to others with wild claims and research.

This is quite an alarming discovery for me on many levels. There
are so many secret this-es and thats-es they should have their
own starter jackets and merchandise out for cryin' out loud.

So my next question is for more data from reliable sources about
this group and groups like it.

Any suggestions, i.e. books, tapes, websites?


Best,

Greg






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                           Re: BLURFOs - Stanford

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 12:14:30 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 13:06:18 -0500
Subject: Re: BLURFOs - Stanford


>From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22.nul>
>To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 05:29:14 -0800
>Subject: BLURFOs

>We have a real problem. Lately, anything that streaks across a
>digital camera lens or video cam is being hailed as a flying
>saucer or UFO photo....

>Read more about it and see the illustrations at:

>http://www.rense.com/general49/blurfo.htm


Thanks, Bill, for alerting us to that, to James Neff for
producing it, and to Jeff Rense for carrying it. I've been
trying to get that message through for years, now. That's one of
several reasons why my project has used only good,
'old-fashioned' movie film and 35mm film in recording the optical
images of UFOs and has encouraged others to remain old-fashioned
as long as film availability allows it.

I suspect that James Neff's warning (and those of others who
prefer fact over fantasy) will fall on deaf ears, however, and
that, e.g., the pages of a certain UK magazine will continue to
be replete with enough color images of 'orbs' (dust, as clearly
demonstrated in Neff's article) and other prosaic artifacts of
photography as to make any realist nauseated.


Ray Stanford

"You know my method. It is founded upon the observance of
trifles." -- Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery







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                             Re: BLURFOs - Velez

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 12:51:48 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 13:09:17 -0500
Subject: Re: BLURFOs - Velez


>From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22.nul>
>To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 05:29:14 -0800
>Subject: BLURFOs

>We have a real problem. Lately, anything that streaks across a
>digital camera lens or video cam is being hailed as a flying
>saucer or UFO photo....

>Read more about it and see the illustrations at:

>http://www.rense.com/general49/blurfo.htm


Hi Bill, All,

Thank you Bill for posting this and thank you to James Neff for
some really classy graphics work.

Albeit inadvertently, James Neff has proven a point I have been
trying to make about the 'object' in the Whittlesea photo. If
you study James's graphics carefully you'll note that he has
taken the image of a bird in flight and blurred it. As you can
see from the final product, it does not even remotely resemble
the object can be seen in the sky of the Whittlesea photo.

In fact, James had to blur the bird so much in order to get it
to resemble a 'disc' shaped object, that absolutely _no_
discernable_detail_ remains at all of the bird shape. It no
longer resembles a 'bird' or the object in the Whittlesea photo.

James's creation ends up being something new, something we
haven't seen yet. I have been saying all along that if those who
claim to see a 'bird' or a 'fly' in the Whittlesea photo would
take the 'actual' shape of a bird or a fly (in full flight) and
reproduce a convincing look-alike to the object in the Oz photo,
that it would lend much weight to their theory. None of them has
been able to do it. I give James extra credit for using the
'actual' shape of a bird.

Also take careful note that in _all_ of his graphics that the
blur he added is _uniform_ in front of, and behind, his objects.
There is a heavy blur in front _and_ back. Not so in the
Whittlesea photo.

The 'front' (leading) edge of the Oz object is pretty
sharp/clear while the back end of the 'object' (whatever it is)
shows the kind of blur or trailing that is common to, and
consistent with, motion.

Again, at least James took the actual shape of a 'bird' and
blurred it. Not some random, bastardized-shape that is being
pawned off as an acceptable substitute or image of a bird. (As
has been done with a so-called 'fly'.) The proof is in the
pudding. Jeff took a bird, blurred it as best he could, and
failed to come up with anything that resembles the object in the
Whittlesea photo. That says something.

Now if we can get someone to do the same thing with the shape of
a 'real fly' in flight, we can dismiss that too as a 'possible'
or even 'probable' cause for the image recorded at Whittlesea.

Consider this:

Please don't forget that the photographer and the good people on
the city council down there are _not_ 'UFO buffs'. It's tough to
blame 'predisposition' or 'prejudgment' on folks who know little
or nothing of UFO phenomena. Yet they see something unusual
enough to submit to experts for analysis. Those of us who see a
'domed disc' shaped object in the sky of the Oz photo are not
alone.

I seriously doubt the council as a whole would have asked for
help with a photo of what they thought (or perceived) was a
common 'bird' or a 'fly'. It is my contention that those who see
a 'fly' or a 'bird' in the sky of the Whittlesea photo are not
only in the minority, some of them (not all) have a personal
theory or 'agenda' that requires this photo and others to be
dismissed as a misidentified 'fly' or 'bird.'

Show me da money! Show me a picture of a fly or bird in flight
that resembles the classic flying saucer shaped object in the
Whittlesea photo. So far, nobody has been able to even get
close.

I did. All I had to do was make a domed disc, add a little light
from the right and above, throw in a touch of motion blur and
viola! Whittlesea object!

Again, thanks to Bill for the post and Neff for proving a point
I've been trying to make. Nice work James.  ;)


Regards,

John Velez








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                        Re: The Illuminati - Chapman

From: Mary Chapman <alfie107.nul>
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 10:33:57 -0800
Fwd Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 06:38:03 -0500
Subject: Re: The Illuminati - Chapman


>From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 11:35:01 EST
>Subject: The Illuminati

>Okay, sometimes in this area of research things can go from
>weird to weirder to weirdest.

>For my entire life I've heard these stories and such about
>secret global cabals in particular the 'Illuminati'.

>At first when I was a kid I thought it was a rock band. Finding
>no LPs or 45s at the time I brushed it off.

>Then in the mid 70s my mom was yelling about a book called "Holy
>Blood, Holy Grail". I read a bit of it and tossed it off as too
>bizarre.

>Yet as the years have rolled on, (Bob Seger instumental here)
>these secret groups have come to the fore more often than most
>franchise sports teams I know.

>Then while doing more research I ran into a doctor I know who
>was part of this group. What he told me and confirmed for me
>shook me up. The last bit of data on this group and groups like
>it came in a couple of weeks ago. Confirmed.

>So I have to apologize to all the folks I didn't pay attention
>to regarding these issues. Teaches me a lesson for being hard
>headed and arrogant. Considering how people react to UFO
>research I had to flip things and realize I was reacting
>unprofessionally to others with wild claims and research.

>This is quite an alarming discovery for me on many levels. There
>are so many secret this-es and thats-es they should have their
>own starter jackets and merchandise out for cryin' out loud.

>So my next question is for more data from reliable sources about
>this group and groups like it.

>Any suggestions, i.e. books, tapes, websites?

Hi Greg!

Here are some links of interest on the subject of Secret
Societies, and their impact on the world at large. Also, it
might behoove you to read "The Da Vinci Code" by Dan Brown. It
is a fiction genre, but it is Truth-based! Talk about a good
source of information regarding Secret Societies!! It is also a
good read, in my humble opinion.


http://www.bilderberg.org/skulbone.htm

http://www.freedomdomain.com/secretsocieties/skull01.html

http://www.trilateral.org/memb.htm


Regards,

Mary Chapman









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                  Explanations For MOC #M08--04688 - White

From: Vince White <Vinceomni.nul>
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 13:38:43 EST
Fwd Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 06:43:08 -0500
Subject: Explanations For MOC #M08--04688 - White


Listers;

The Mars pictures from NASA's OPPORTUNITY are impressive and
deserve high congratulations. Yet far more impressive Mars
images have been returned and are virtually ignored. Indeed,
most of the world and I daresay most Listers haven't seen the
truly anomalous images.

How many national daily newspapers have run MOC M08-04688? In
the flood of published Mars images, this strip is largely
missing.

http://ida.wr.usgs.gov/display/MGSC_1066/m08046/m0804688.imq.jpg

This image strip shows radially branching dendroidal structures,
with long vertical shadows. One can see primary, secondary,
tertiary, branches. Yes, clear branches are visible. They appear
to be giant trees. If this is geophysics, it is truly exotic
geophysics, appearing on a relatively flat plain.

Do we have multiple radially branching rocks extending into the
thin   Martian air? Do we have "ice" trees, radially projecting
with vertical features, blending gradually into what appears to
be a forest?

What is NASA's explanation? According to Sir Arthur C.Clarke
there really is no response by JPL/NASA..The stance by some in
NASA is to make insinuations about Arthur's mental status.

While pundits speak of the theoretical possibility of life on
Mars it is quite possibly staring us right in the face.
Additionally there are many many highly anomalous images besides
the trees that most haven't even seen yet. It all brings NASA's
credibility into focus---would the discovery of life on Mars
even be announced? Sometimes the best hiding place is right in
plain sight?

ESA's EXPRESS orbiter, with it's color 3-D high resolution,
could reimage this area, perhaps in a spectacular fashion.

What do listers who have actually taken a look at this image
strip think explains the radially branching structures? NASA
seems largely silent on this. Why?


Vince White







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                            Re: BLURFOs - Hebert

From: Amy Hebert <vanguard.nul>
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 13:21:40 -0600
Fwd Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 06:51:14 -0500
Subject: Re: BLURFOs - Hebert


>From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 05:29:14 -0800
>Subject: BLURFOs

>We have a real problem. Lately, anything that streaks across a
>digital camera lens or video cam is being hailed as a flying
>saucer or UFO photo....

>Read more about it and see the illustrations at:

>http://www.rense.com/general49/blurfo.htm

Please note that the Whittlesea UFO appears to more closely
resemble the images of the bird and insect in the middle range
rather than in the "BLURFO" zone (another name for IFO). In
addition, it is obvious that Mr. Neff has not video-taped,
photographed and analyzed hundreds of IFO images for the last 5
years or he would know where his calculations (what
calculations?) are off. Note that he does not indicate the
dimensions of his "BLURFO" zone - it could be anywhere from an
inch to miles. Images just don't happen according to his
descriptions as I've seen all kinds appear on video as well as
in photographs. There are many more factors involved than just
where the objects appear or at what focal range the image is
captured.

I will discuss this more in a later post and share more images
(photographs, video stills, etc.) I have compiled in relation to
the Whittlesea UFO and now Mr. Neff's "BLURFO's" this weekend as
I have to get to work again.

I'm sure Dr. Maccabee can comment on Mr. Neff's "orb"
photographs as related to the "BLURFO" zone.


A. Hebert








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                            Re: BLURFOs - Miller

From: Stuart Miller <Stuart.Miller4.nul>
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 19:40:54 -0000
Fwd Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 06:54:03 -0500
Subject: Re: BLURFOs - Miller


>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 12:14:30 -0500
>Subject: Re: BLURFOs

>>From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22.nul>
>>To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 05:29:14 -0800
>>Subject: BLURFOs

>I suspect that James Neff's warning (and those of others who
>prefer fact over fantasy) will fall on deaf ears, however, and
>that, e.g., the pages of a certain UK magazine will continue to
>be replete with enough color images of 'orbs' (dust, as clearly
>demonstrated in Neff's article) and other prosaic artifacts of
>photography as to make any realist nauseated.


Hi Ray,

If you have ever edited a magazine, and when I say "a magazine",
I mean one intended for the newstands - as opposed to one to
give out to a few like-minded friends - then you will know that
you don't restrict it's contents to just what you would like to
see in it.

Aside from the commercial aspects, its about people and about
giving them access. Life would be a lot simpler without
customers but as Palin said to Cleese in the "Dirty Fork"
sketch, "Never kill a customer - it's bad for business". I
didn't particularly care for the orbs pix either but there it
is.


Stuart Miller








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                        ET's No Alien To Santa Feans

From: Will Bueche <willbueche.nul>
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 12:57:41 -0800 (PST)
Fwd Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 07:01:43 -0500
Subject: ET's No Alien To Santa Feans


Dr. Mack 'Touched' Tour News

Source: The Albuquerque Journal - New Mexico

http://www.abqjournal.com/news/state/148190nm02-20-04.htm

February 20, 2004


ET's No Alien to Santa Feans

By Wren Propp
Journal Northern Bureau

SANTA FE -- Count alien abduction as yet another way the capital
city upholds its rep as the City Different.

Massachusetts filmmaker Laurel Chiten said she was "blown away"
in December when maybe as much as half of a standing-room-only
Santa Fe audience who saw her film "Touched" raised their hands
to say they'd had personal interaction with aliens from other
worlds.

"Touched" is a documentary about people who say they have
experienced alien abduction and contact. It was screened at the
Santa Fe Film Festival in December with sold-out showings.

"I was kind of blown away. ... The film really found its
audience" in Santa Fe, said Chiten in a telephone interview from
California.

Chiten and Dr. John E. Mack, a Harvard University psychiatrist
and researcher of those he calls "experiencers" -- folks who
report missing time, probes, sperm extraction, impregnation and
hybridization experiments after contact with aliens -- plan to
be in Santa Fe on Tuesday and Albuquerque on Wednesday for
additional screenings of the film.

Santa Fe's reputation as a place for people to heal, with
alternative medical practices, lifestyles and religious rituals,
makes it prime stomping grounds for those who believe they have
made alien connections, said Jon Bowman, executive director of
the film festival.

"A lot of people come here to lick their wounds. It's kind of a
way station, a crossroads," Bowman said.

And New Mexico's long-standing reports of crashing flying
saucers from Roswell to Aztec and years of cattle mutilations
provide fertile soil for those who would also be interested in
"Touched," he said.

"It goes with the territory," Bowman said.

After a screening of "Touched" in Santa Fe in December, audience
members talked about their own experiences, Chiten said.

Unlike discussions after other screenings elsewhere, the Santa
Feans didn't argue about the existence of aliens or the
possibility of mental illness on the part of abductees, she
said.

"This audience asked questions about the phenomenon and broke
into a discussion with each other, sharing their experiences,"
Chiten said.

When someone in the audience asked how many people at the
theater had experienced contact with aliens, about half raised
their hands, Chiten said.

"I was shocked," she said.

Mack, who calls those who have reported contact with aliens
"experiencers," said that perhaps those drawn to Santa Fe are
also drawn to experiences sent out from other dimensions.

"I would guess that the people in Santa Fe would be different
from those in New York," he said in a telephone interview from
the East Coast. "They might be more open spirited instead of
digging in their heels."

Mack earned a Pulitzer Prize for his biography of T.E. Lawrence
titled "A Prince of Our Disorder: The Life of T.E. Lawrence,"
whose life was explored in the film "Lawrence of Arabia."

The kind of discussion reported by Chiten in Santa Fe sounds
similar to the kind of discussion Mack hopes the film will
generate worldwide.

The film "avoids the rather sterile debate" over whether alien
contact can be proved," he said.

Viewers "can't help feel these are authentic individuals.... The
film goes to the heart," Mack said.


Get 'Touched' Again

In encore events sponsored by the Santa Fe Film Festival,
"Touched" will be shown at The Screen at the College of Santa
Fe, 1600 St. Michael's Drive, at 7 p.m. Tuesday.

Another showing, along with appearances by director Laurel
Chiten and Dr. John E. Mack, is at 7 p.m. Wednesday at the
Madstone Theaters in Albuquerque, 6311 San Mateo Blvd. NE.

Tickets for both showings are $10 and available at the door.
More information is available by calling the festival at 988-
5225.

Copyright 2004 Albuquerque Journal







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                           Shuttle Will Never Fly

From: Terry W. Colvin <fortean1.nul>
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 14:11:25 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 07:07:46 -0500
Subject: Shuttle Will Never Fly


Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 15:24:48 +0100
From: Amara Graps <amara.nul>
 To: Extropy-chat.nul
SUBJ: FWD [extropy-chat] SPACE: Shuttle will never fly...


Last Christmastime the Los Angeles Times published a series of
articles on the Columbia story by writer Robert Lee Hotz. Even
though I know that he probably had to add some sensationalist
elements to make it into a good newspaper story, he didn't need
to embellish it very much because it is a gripping story on its
own. Plus I think that he is a talented writer.

I jumped into the middle of the series last December, catching
the story regarding the impressive detective work by the
astronomers. Here, allow me to quote part of the story:

=========

The astronomer and the physicist were certain that the first
debris fell not over East Texas, where so much attention
centered, but a thousand miles to the west.

They enlisted Brian Kern, another astronomer from Caltech, and
three experts in space navigation from the Jet Propulsion
Laboratory in Pasadena.

They called themselves the skunk team.

Beasley eventually counted 6,541 images and 34 video recordings
of the shuttle's last reentry, covering its entire flight path
across the United States.

Amateurs had taken them all.

Beasley and Dimotakis studied two shaky videos shot with
camcorders.

Immediately, they noticed that in the first video, recorded by a
man near Reno, the shuttle passed Venus in the sky.

They seized the clue.

By knowing Columbia's planned trajectory, the relative position
of the planet and the constant rate of the video frames, they
worked out the timing, speed and direction of the flight to
within a fraction of a second.

The second video was from Springville, Calif., near Sequoia
National Forest. In it, they spotted the star Deneb and the
compass star Polaris. Other stars - Alpha Cepheus, Vega and Beta
Cassiopeia - could be plotted. This allowed them to confirm the
timing of the flashes and the position of the shuttle.

By enhancing the stars digitally and then working with the
constellations they revealed, the two men determined that
Columbia's actual flight path had been barely a mile off its
predicted reentry. Navigation experts at the Jet Propulsion
Laboratory quickly confirmed their work.

The skunk team could then estimate the mass and size of the
debris the spacecraft was shedding.

By knowing the properties of the exotic materials used in
shuttle construction - recorded in three 22-year-old notebooks
archived in the Caltech library - they calculated how quickly
each piece was left behind by the spacecraft.

A theory took form.

=========

The scientific work of these three people used techniques that
are well known to meteorite researchers and amateurs who record
(often with video cameras) the meteors' entries and calculate
their orbits and, occasionally, search for the objects' fall
location (and sometimes succeed to find them). The work of these
three was particularly comprehensive and detailed and well-done,
I thought.

Even though I know these techniques, to see it well-written in a
major newspaper, and more, to know its importance in solving the
mystery of the shuttle explosion, gave me goosebumps.

I saw the first landing of the First US spaceshuttle on April
12, 1981. I still have my photographs and I remember the crowd
at Edwards Air Force base. So then the birth and death of that
tool for discovery is close to my heart, and the whole story
makes me sad. Not for NASA, because I think that the problems
with the space agency are now clearer than ever, but I am sad
that alot of human's excitement and curiosity for exploring the
universe have become buried under politics and some dirty
business and other activities.

But I continue to try to help keep alive the curiosity for
exploring the universe (or maybe it is just a selfish interest
to share what I like about it myself). Here are the links to the
whole story.


Sunday, December 21, 2003
BUTTERFLY ON A BULLET
Decoding Columbia: A detective story
By Robert Lee Hotz
In an inquest fraught with questions of guilt and shame, scientists
unravel the mystery of a shuttle's demise.

http://www.latimes.com/news/science/la-sci-shuttle21dec21,0,4233726,print.story?
coll=la-news-science

Monday, December 22, 2003
BUTTERFLY ON A BULLET
Curious outsiders get the jump on NASA
By Robert Lee Hotz
Columbia was a white butterfly bolted to a bullet.

http://www.latimes.com/news/science/la-sci-shuttle22dec22,0,5347840,print.story?
coll=la-news-science


Tuesday, December 23, 2003
BUTTERFLY ON A BULLET
Exhuming Columbia, one piece at a time
By Robert Lee Hotz
Early investigators had to rely on informed guesswork. But clues were
puring in.

http://www.latimes.com/news/science/la-sci-shuttle23dec23,0,6461954,print.story?
coll=la-news-science


Wednesday, December 24, 2003
BUTTERFLY ON A BULLET
The fate of a wing shaped by politics
By Robert Lee Hotz
Fragments of Columbia were laid out on a vast concrete floor like
broken bones on an
autopsy table.

http://www.latimes.com/news/science/la-sci-shuttle24dec24,0,7576068,print.story?
coll=la-news-science


Thursday, December 25, 2003
BUTTERFLY ON A BULLET
Firing point-blank at NASA's illusions

http://www.latimes.com/news/science/la-sci-shuttle25dec25,0,690189,print.story?c
oll=la-news-science


Friday, December 26, 2003
BUTTERFLY ON A BULLET
Swallowing the fire: Columbia's final voyage
By Robert Lee Hotz
It was at best a make-work mission.

http://www.latimes.com/news/science/la-sci-shuttle26dec26,0,1804303,print.story?
coll=la-news-science



===================

Switching gears in a different view on this Columbia Story.

Edward Tufte is one of my heroes, and he has written alot
recently about why PowerPoint is one of the worst ways to
communicate and present information. While searching for
something else, I stumbled across these Columbia writings at his
web site:

http://www.edwardtufte.com/ and his bulletin board:
http://www.edwardtufte.com/bboard/q-and-a?topic_id=1 ,

in particular: (related to the Columbia)


http://www.edwardtufte.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=0000OR&topic_id=1&top
ic=Ask%20E%2eT%2e

http://www.edwardtufte.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=0000Rs&topic_id=1&top
ic=Ask%20E%2eT%2e

especially this:

http://www.edwardtufte.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=0000jL&topic_id=1&top
ic=Ask%20E%2eT%2e

where he says:

{beginning quote}
page 191:
http://lfd.streamos.com/caib/report/web/full/caib_report_volume1.pdf
from the
Columbia Accident Investigation Board

"At many points during its investigation, the Board was
surprised to receive similar presentation slides from NASA
officials in place of technical reports. the Board views the
endemic use of PowerPoint briefing slices instead of technical
papers as an illustration of the problematic methods of
technical communication at NASA." {end quote}

This is one of those comitragedy things, isn't it?

Also, extropes, check this out!

http://www.edwardtufte.com/tufte/space


Have a good weekend,
Amara

--

********************************************************************
Amara Graps, PhD     email: amara.nul
Computational Physics   vita: ftp://ftp.amara.com/pub/resume.txt
Multiplex Answers     URL:  http://www.amara.com/
********************************************************************


--

"Only a zit on the wart on the heinie of progress." Copyright
1992, Frank Rice


Terry W. Colvin,
Sierra Vista,
Arizona (USA)
fortean1.nul







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   Feb > Feb 21

                         Georgina Bruni On UK Radio

From: Nick Pope <nick.nul>
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 21:22:37 -0000
Fwd Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 07:09:50 -0500
Subject: Georgina Bruni On UK Radio


Georgina Bruni will be on James Whale's show on the Talk Sport
radio station on Monday evening, between around 11pm and 1am.

She'll be discussing recent UFO sightings in the UK, other
current  ufological news, and latest developments in the
continuing search for the truth about the Rendlesham Forest
incident.

As ever, callers are welcome to phone in with questions, or
details of any UFO sightings, alien abductions or other strange
experiences they've had.

Talk Sport broadcasts at 1089/1053am. You can listen online,
live, at the following url:

http://www.talksport.net/listen


Best wishes,

Nick Pope








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                    Another Planet Found Orbiting Our Sun

From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul>
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 16:58:54 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
Fwd Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 07:20:07 -0500
Subject: Another Planet Found Orbiting Our Sun


Hi Everyone!

"...seek and you will find..." Matthew 7:7

Just like in 1930 when young astronomer Clyde Tombaugh
discovered the 9th planet orbiting our Sun, a new systematic
search nearly 3/4 of a century later has discovered many more
small planets or planetoids in our solar system. Now we have
discovered yet another one that they suspect could be as large
as Pluto itself - which only as recently as 1978 was found to
actually be a double planet (Pluto-Charon).

http://spaceflightnow.com/news/n0402/20kuiper/

We have already detected over ten times as many planets orbiting
other stars than those orbiting our own Sun. Makes one wonder
just how many other still undetected planets, or possibly even a
dwarf companion star to our Sun, await to be discovered in our
immediate backyard of space once new and expanded surveys of the
sky are made.

I had the pleasure of hearing the late Clyde Tombaugh talk about
his discovery a while back at a meeting of the Royal
Astronomical Society of Canada in Ottawa. The late Peter
Millman, an astronomer who headed Project Magnet back in the
1950s (one of Canada's official UFO projects) was also present.
Clyde was a very experienced observer of the skies, and one
of many astronomers who have reported seeing UFOs. He and fellow
astronomers were never able to explain his sighting of a large
UFO with what looked like a row of illuminated rectangular
windows.


Nick Balaskas








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                       2004 Humanoid Reports To 02-20

From: Albert Rosales <Garuda79.nul>
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 17:56:00 EST
Fwd Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 07:27:19 -0500
Subject: 2004 Humanoid Reports To 02-20


2004 Humanoid Reports To 02-20-04

We began the year 2004 with a bizarre encounter in Chile and one
in Mexico involving a law enforcement officer.

1.
Location. Viluco, Chile
Date: January 5 2004     Time: 0515A

40-year old driver Juan Berrios was on his on an errand on Santa
Filomena Street on his way to Las Vertientes terminal when at
about 70 meters in front of his car he noticed a strange figure
standing on the middle of the road. He rubbed his eyes and then
saw nothing and kept on driving, at about 5 meters away the
bizarre figure again appeared. Stunned at what he was seeing
Berrios almost lost control of his vehicle as he swerved around
the figure almost upending the vehicle. The strange creature had
what appeared to be the carcass of a bloodied dog clutched in
his jaws. The creature suddenly jumped and disappeared into the
brush. Berrios described the creature as about 1.50m in height,
with large hind legs like a kangaroo, small curved front arms
that ended in claw like protrusions, a spiky dorsal fin on its
back, and a tail resembling that of a rattler on a snake. The
facial features were also bizarre; it had a wolf-like snout,
several sharp rows of teeth, and fierce-looking red eyes. It
jumped a height of about 5 meters and disappeared from sight.

HC addendum
Source: Juan Maulen, quoting La Cuarta Newspaper
January 29 2004     Type: E


2.
Location. Jordanow, Poland
Date: January 13 2004     Time: 0258A

48-year old, L K was lying in bed with his face turned towards
the window. Suddenly he woke up with a strange feeling that
something odd was happening in the street. He opened his eyes
and noticed a ball, which was hanging in the sky. It shone with
a white-blue silvery light---like the moon---but it was 2-3
times bigger than the moon. He immediately looked at the clock
and noticed the time. He looked around the bedroom and saw his
wife and dog sleeping calmly. The witness then felt very dizzy
and went to sleep again. That same night he had another strange
experience. While in a half-awake state in his bed he heard a
strange female voice, which repeated a passage read in an
unknown language (the witness is an interpreter and speaks five
foreign languages fluently). Feeling afraid he covered his head
with a pillow. He immediately checked all the electrical devices
in the room but they were all turned off, except for the icebox.
His wife and dog again slept calmly. The witness also heard the
strange voice the next night.

HC addendum
Source: Robert K Lesniakiewicz, Poland     Type: F?




3.
Location. Valles de la Silla, Monterrey, Nuevo Leon, Mexico
Date: January 16 2004     Time: 0315A

21-year old police officer Leonardo Samaniego Gallegos was
patrolling a section of Alamo Street when he observed what
appeared to be the figure of a woman totally dressed in a black
cloak-like outfit descend from a nearby tree towards his patrol
car. She appeared to float towards the car at very high speed.
She had large black eyes without any pupils. Terrified he drove
away from the area but was chased by the flying apparition. He
called for assistance over his police radio. The tree the
strange figure descended from was about 6 meters high. The
strange flying creature approached the police car and impacted
onto the front windshield pushing it inward, apparently trying
to get in using what appeared to be large pointy claws at this
point Gallegos lost consciousness. In the videotaped interview
officer Gallegos describes the eyes and black gown as in the
news article but adds the description of a "helmet" or headpiece
it was wearing that curved downward to a point at the back of
the creature's head. Also, a police officer from Santa Catarina,
Jorge Contreras declared that he and two more policemen from the
Regia police saw exactly the same flying being that officer
Samaniego saw, but three days before. They saw it flying and
decided not to say anything---until they heard about Samaniego's
case. Norma Alicia Herrera who lives in Colonia La Playa
declared in a TV interview that she and her brother also saw the
flying humanoid at daytime and that it looked weird. She said
that her brother was so stunned by the sighting that he was sick
for almost a week afterwards. Another neighbor in that sector
also videotaped several days before, a strange flying humanoid
and gave the video to the TV station.

HC addendum
Source: John Velez, Abduction Information Center quoting
Newspaper sources and Santiago Yturria     Type: E


It did not take long for another bizarre entity report to
surface this one from Indiana.


4.
Location. Manchester, Dearborn County, Indiana
Date: January 24 2004     Time: 1930

A 17-year old motorist traveling almost 10 miles north of Aurora
Indiana on Saturday night claims to have encountered an unusual
figure on the road. While driving his black Chevrolet Cavalier
southbound along North Hogan Road a "figure" was spotted in the
headlights of the automobile as it was crouched down near a
puddle of water. From the driver's perspective the figure was
spotted out the windshield on the right of the car. After
passing the frail-looking figure, the driver looked into his
rear view mirror and again observed---illuminated by the
taillights of his car---what he described as a tall, abnormal
figure that moved strangely with pointed joints that "buckled
out". He estimated the figure stood around 6 feet, seven inches.
"It had protruding joints and moved very strangely." The driver
said he was able to ascertain the figure, alleged to be dark
gray or black and "pencil thin" stand up and take several steps
toward the woods along the roadside. The figure definitely
walked on two legs and was thought somehow, to be a male,
although no clothing was noted. No face or eyes could be seen,
but the witness had the impression that the figure was looking
straight at him. The figure was immediately thought to be
something out of the ordinary, not a human being. The duration
of the sighting was "hurried" and possibly within the 3 to 4
second range. The driver continued on for a small distance after
passing the figure and finally put on his brakes, coming to a
stop at an estimated 2 minute walking distance on the road from
the location of the sighting. He looked back to further observe
the entity. At that point, a second car came into view and
approached from the opposite direction, passed and then reached
the spot on the road where the figure was thought to be. The 17-
year old motorist reportedly watched closely and observed the
second car undertake what he thought to be an evasive maneuver
near the vicinity of where he thought the figure would be
situated, then the car turned around at that spot and shortly
pulled up behind him, somewhat in the grass. There was an
elderly couple in the car, both in their late 60s or early 70s
and both with gray hair. The driver, who wore glasses said,
"Boy, did you see something back there? I'll tell you right now,
that was no person." The passenger, an elderly female said, "It
was no human being. It was no man." The elderly couple were
reportedly "spooked" but offered to follow the first witness the
remainder of the trip down North Hogan Road, clearly in the
opposite direction of their intended destination route. It was
thought that the elderly couple observed this same figure on the
opposite side of the road, and possibly had observed it more
closely. Later, the 17-year old witness was said to have become
hysterical, and within an hour was describing the figure as an
"alien".

HC addendum
Source: Kenny Young, Florence Kentucky, UFO Research,
Bob Leibold, Natural Light Productions Cincinnati     Type: E


5.
Location. Leona Vicario, Yucatan, Mexico
Date: January 28 2004     Time: midnight

Maria Luisa Fernandez Morales a residents living in the
outskirts of the city reported that an unknown creature killed
at least 50 of her hens, which she kept in her backyard. The
witness, who sold chickens for a living heard a loud ruckus
coming from the pen and ran out only to confront a very strange
creature similar to a "tiger" but bipedal in nature and emitting
loud grunting sounds. According to the witness the mysterious
creature jumped over a wire fence and ran from the area leaving
a trail of blood behind. It only took several minutes for the
creature to kill the chickens. Also residents from the town of
Texan Palomeque have reported seeing what they describe as a
"wolf-woman", which has also killed and decapitated hundreds of
chickens in area.

HC addendum
Source: Martin Morita, Grupo Reforma, Mexico     Type: E


6.
Location. Texan Palomeque, Yucatan, Mexico
Date: January 29 2004     Time: night

Numerous locals have seen a bizarre creature dubbed the
"wolfwoman" and it is said to be responsible for the slaying of
hundreds of farm birds. Some who has seen it describe it as
about 5 ft tall, walking on two legs, hairy and with glowing red
eyes. About 100 people armed with rifles and flashlights
searched the area for the alleged humanoid. Benito Canul a 45-
year old worker living outside the city of Uman said he managed
to fire at the strange being outside his house on the way to the
cemetery, he is unsure if he hit it. "The creature was dog
shaped but with glowing red eyes" Benito said.

HC addendum
Source: Scott Corrales, Gloria Coluchi     Type: E


7.
Location. Chicxulub, Yucatan, Mexico
Date: January 29 2004     Time: late night

Local residents have reported seeing a creature described as
resembling a huge creature with horse-like legs, and covered in
gray colored hair. It is said that from the waist up the
creature resembles a woman and emits a loud chirping sound like
that of a bat. Numerous mutilated dog carcasses have been found
in the area, also that of chickens and cats. 16-year old
Patricia Figueroa Ponce was watching television one night when
she heard loud "chirping" noises coming from the backyard, she
ran to the kitchen after hearing her farm animals shriek in an
agitated manner, and her dogs acted afraid and nervous. She
looked out the window and saw a bizarre creature resembling a
huge dog, but with half of its body human in appearance.
Terrified she yelled for her mother but when both ran outside
the strange creature had disappeared. Some of the local
residents claim that the creature is actually a witch from the
nearby city of Conkal who had been practicing black magic and
had somehow transformed itself.

HC addendum
Source: Alberto Arias Colli, "Diario de Yucatan-Merida"
Mexico February 1 2004     Type: E


8.
Location. Near Joao Pessoa, Paraiba, Brazil
Date: January 31 2004     Time: night

23-year old Alan Flavio was visiting the farm of his
girlfriend's cousin and late one evening he and the cousin were
rounding up some stray cattle in the outer areas of the farm.
Soon they had stopped to rest when Flavio noticed that the
horses were a little restless he looked around and saw movement
in the nearby brush. He caught a quick glimpse of a figure, he
described as "graphite" in color with long thin but strong legs.
It quickly scurried behind some trees and disappeared from
sight. Later that night sometime after midnight as he slept in
the farmhouse he suddenly woke up feeling a strong hand pushing
on his chest. He was paralyzed and could not move or speak. He
then noticed a dark figure, human in shape standing over him. It
seemed to emit a strong influence over the witness, which
totally controlled him. The whole time his girlfriend and cousin
slept in the next room and was not in any way disturbed. Soon
the dark human-shaped figure vanished and he was able to move
again.

HC addendum
Source: UFO Genesis, Brazil     Type: E


9.
Location. Near Romeral, Chile
Date: late January 2004     Time: 0600A

Roberto Ayar Rojas, Maribel Arnaiz Cazaux and their daughter,
Daphane were driving on an isolated road surrounded by woods
when suddenly a bizarre creature appeared on the road ahead on
them. The creature stood on two feet; it was totally covered
with hair, and had bright red eyes. The creature stood bent
forward on two large hind legs similar to a kangaroo. It had two
small "hands" which it moved very rapidly. Once the creature
spotted the witness car it seemed afraid, it suddenly jumped at
incredible speed into the woods. The husband and wife pair had
meanwhile stopped the car and after recovering from the shock it
drove quickly away from the area. They later reported that what
scared them the most was the two large protruding fangs from the
creature's upper mandible. The witnesses felt that the creature
bounded away in an "unnatural" manner. Thankfully their daughter
slept during the encounter. In the nearby town of Buin another
motorist struck a similar creature apparently without hurting it
and hairs possibly belonging to creature were found on the
scene.

HC addendum
Source: Liliana Nu=F1ez, Hector Cossio L     Type: E


10.
Location. Jordanow, Poland
Date: February 13 2004     Time: 0100A

77-year old Mrs. K J woke up late at night and went to the
lavatory and back to her bedroom, as she passed through the
kitchen she was surprised to see a strong flame-orange light,
which floated in the sky. She quickly realized that it couldn't
be the moon. The light had the shape of a hemisphere, the upper
part was rounded and its bottom was flat. The light was 2-3
times bigger than the full moon. The witness states that the
light hung above the forest over Hajdowka hill, which was 1.5 km
from her house. She watched for about 5 minutes and felt dizzy
and then she went to bed. During the night she had a disturbing
"dream" about a strange meeting with a huge shiny "thing". She
awoke feeling very frightened around 0630A.

HC addendum
Source: Robert K Lesniakiewicz, Poland     Type: F?








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                          Re: The Illuminati - Koch

From: Joachim Koch <lists.nul>
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 00:26:50 +0100
Fwd Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 08:32:12 -0500
Subject: Re: The Illuminati - Koch


>From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 11:35:01 EST
>Subject: The Illuminati

<snip>

>So my next question is for more data from reliable
>sources about this group and groups like it.

>Any suggestions, i.e. books, tapes, websites?

Hi Greg,

It made me very thoughtful that here on this honourable List
which I know now for so many years so much aggression and so
much nonsense was written, only because of mentioning the fact
that past, current and future Presidents of the U.S. are members
of the secret and sinister order of "Skull and Bones".

I have two websites for you:

1) The Yale Herald:

http://www.yaleherald.com/article.php?Article=2523


2)TV excerpt from the "Meet the Press" show:

http://www.prisonplanet.com/010104kerryadmits.html

There are a lot more books, tapes and websites, of course.

Well, I like to leave this thread here because this is a UFO
List and I don't want to stretch Errol's patience too much.

All the best,

Joachim


-----------------------------------
More info: http://www.kochkyborg.de
-----------------------------------







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                       Re: Excalibur Briefing - Novak

From: John Novak <john.nul>
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 17:06:29 -0800
Fwd Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 08:51:12 -0500
Subject: Re: Excalibur Briefing - Novak


>From: John Rimmer <jrimmer.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 23:54:52 +0000
>Subject: Re: Excalibur Briefing

>>From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 08:22:28 -0600
>>Subject: Re: Excalibur Briefing

>>No, man, you don't get it! The oil companies, working with the
>>Illuminati and the reptilian aliens would never let it come out
>>because it would mean the collapse of world government, the
>>Vatican, and eBay! They did the same thing with the 100-MPG
>>carburetor in the 1960's.

>>Don't be fooled. The Bush Family, Henry Kissigner, the Saudi
>>Arabian monarchy, Steven Spielberg, Carrot Top, and the Masons
>>are all working together to keep us slaves. And there ain't
>>nothin' any of us can do because of the chips implanted in our
>>heads that are controlled by subspace radio signals from a
>>secret black satellite at the L5 points between earth and the
>>moon. They hide in plain sight! That's what the Prozac is for!

>Hey, c'mon, be fair! What about evil the Magonian Pelicanists?
>What's the point of being in a hidden, super-secret, underground
>conspiracy if everyone doesn't know you're in it?

>John Rimmer
>Magonia Magazine
>www.magonia.demon.co.uk/arc/00/newmag.htm


<LOL> Yeah... you guys are a riot! While you're at it, don't
forget this nutcase's research. Didn't know about Carot Top,
however. You'll have to clue me in better on that one so we can
do some follow up on it.

-John Novak


Source: http://www.supremalex.org/shock-n-ah.htm

By the way, there is/was a secret society/cult based on
Demeter/Ceres where rituals called the "Eleusinian Mysteries"
were performed on initiates for Illumination, or spiritual
enlightenment. I do not make judgments on these rituals as being
good or evil. However, I can say that at the Secret Society at
Yale called "Skull and Bones", there are rituals performed to a
"feminine god" that Father & Son Bush were required to go
through for their initiation into this group of "enlightened"
ones.


Source: http://www.4rie.com/rie%206.html

... The most likely potential member is from a Bones family, who
is energetic, resourceful, political and probably an amoral team
player.

... Honors and financial rewards are guaranteed by the power of
The Order. But the price of these honors and rewards is
sacrifice to the common goal, the goal of The Order. Some,
perhaps many, have not been willing to pay this price.

The Old Line American families and their descendants involved in
the Skull & Bones are names such as: Whitney, Perkins, Stimson,
Taft, Wadsworth, Gilman, Payne, Davidson, Pillsbury, Sloane,
Weyerhaeuser, Harriman, Rockefeller, Lord, Brown, Bundy, Bush
and Phelps.

Most important, however, is this _fact_ about George W. Bush as
_originally_ reported by ABC News during the Presidential
Election (Click here for full original article)


Article since removed. Was at:

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/world/DailyNews/london001025.html

and to prove it, go here:

http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://abcnews.go.com/sections/world/DailyNews/lond
on001025.html


ABC News:

Do presidential candidates Al Gore and George W. Bush have royal
connections? Buckingham Palace politely declined to comment.
(Digital Stock)

By Tony Eufinger

LONDON, Oct. 25, 2000 - When it comes to picking the winner in
the American presidential race, Britain's leading chroniclers of
royal ancestors say they've never been wrong - not once in
almost 200 years.

Based on facts gleaned from the old scrolls and dusty archives
of Burke's Peerage - researchers of royal bloodlines since 1826
- the Brits wager it will be Texas Gov. George W. Bush.

"The presidential candidate with the most royal genes and
chromosomes has, up to now, always won the White House," say the
researchers at Burke's Peerage.

They say Bush's blue blood runs thicker than Vice President Al
Gore' s. In fact it trumps the royal ties of every other
president to date, including his father's. It seems George W.
has inherited his mother's deep blue blood-line.


His Royal Highness, King Dubya

Burke's publishing director, Harold Brooks-Baker says Bush's
royal connections are startling.

"[Bush] is closely related to every European Monarch both on and
off the throne," says Brooks-Baker.

Some of the governor's royal kin include Britain's Queen
Elizabeth II, the Queen Mother, Dutchess Sarah "Fergy" Ferguson
and even the late Princess Diana.

His most prominent ancestor may be England's King Charles II,
who shared the governor's vision of a strong military.

Going back nearly 1000 years, Brooks-Baker points out both the
Bush and Pierce families [Barbara Bush's maiden name is Pierce]
were high society.

"Not one member of his family was working class, middle class,
or even middle, middle class," he notes.


Why is this so important? Because of an ancient concept in the
mystery schools called the "Divine Right of Kings".

Black's Law Dictionary 6th edition defines it thusly:

Divine right of kings. The right of a king to rule as posited by
the patriarchal theory of government, especially under the
doctrine that no misconduct and no dispossession can forfeit the
right of a monarch or his heirs to the throne, and to the
obedience of the people. This theory was in its origin directed,
not against popular liberty, but against papal and
ecclesiastical claims to supremacy in temporal as well as
spiritual affairs.

In other words, George W. Bush (the Burning Bush) has now
declared his vision and actions to be the "ultimate authority
for humanity" as if spoken by the Supreme Creator of the
Universe! And all the monarchs of the world bow to his
"supremacy". Why? Because he has become "King of the World" and
has the bloodline to prove it backed by the mightiest military
force in known history to any who might oppose him!

Manifest Destiny: a term used to describe the belief in the
1840's in the inevitable territorial expansion of the United
States. People who believed in manifest destiny maintained that
the United States should rule all North America because of U.S.
economic and political superiority, because the U.S. population
was growing rapidly, and because it was God's will that the
United States should do so. --World Book Encyclopedia


"The liberty we prize is not America's gift to the world, it is
God's gift to humanity." ...
 -- G.W.B. State of the Union address

"This crusade, this war on terrorism, is going to take a while."
 G.W.B. To reporters in Washington

"The reason we start a war is to fight a war, win a war, thereby
causing no more war!"
 -- George W. Bush (first Presidential debate)

"If this were a dictatorship, it'd be a heck of a lot easier...just
as long as I'm the dictator..."
 --Washington, DC, Dec 18, 2000, first trip to Washington as
President-Elect








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                         Re: The Illuminati - Olsen

From: Neil Olsen <sovot.nul>
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 20:17:17 -0800
Fwd Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 08:56:40 -0500
Subject: Re: The Illuminati - Olsen


>From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 11:35:01 EST
>Subject: The Illuminati


>Okay, sometimes in this area of research things can go from
>weird to weirder to weirdest.

<snip>

>So my next question is for more data from reliable sources about
>this group and groups like it.

>Any suggestions, i.e. books, tapes, websites?

Greg and List;

The world banking system including the US Federal Reserve bank is
(allegedly) controlled by the Illuminati. A good place to start is
http://www.worldnewsstand.net/today/articles/fedprivatelyowned.htm

For a wider expose of the Illuminati banking group, go to:

http://search.freefind.com/find.html?id=63082184&pid=r&mode=ALL&n=0&query=Illumi
nati


Best,

Neil








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                            Re: BLURFOs - Taylor

From: Barry Taylor <stingray.nul>
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 13:34:53 +1100
Fwd Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 11:15:35 -0500
Subject: Re: BLURFOs - Taylor


>From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22.nul>
>To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 05:29:14 -0800
>Subject: BLURFOs

>We have a real problem. Lately, anything that streaks across a
>digital camera lens or video cam is being hailed as a flying
>saucer or UFO photo....

>Read more about it and see the illustrations at:

>http://www.rense.com/general49/blurfo.htm


Thank you, Bill, for making us aware of the Rense article.

This has been a 'pet subject' of mine for some years now. Ever
since the "Rod" Phenomena started.

I have done controlled experiments in an attempt to capture
"Rods". All I have been able to capture is "Motion blur of fast
flying insects". (Which is what Rods really are!)

I have seen some of George Ritter's images and they sure look
like motion blur of insects and birds to me.

When experimenting with such activities with a video camera, it
is *essential* that the focus is set to manual focus, and
adjusted to infinity. Auto focus is totally useless. There is
no_way auto focus can adjust to a small close object moving at
just moderate speeds, let alone hundreds or thousands of mile
per hour. If using auto focus, you are *guaranteed* to get false
readings. Auto focus on small or fast moving objects, day or
night is also useless. You can not base true research and
analysis using these camera settings.

Shutter speed is the second most important setting to consider.
When setting up a fixed video camera in an attempt to capture
UFO's or 'Rods', you *must* use at least 1/10,000th shutter
speed setting. Anything, especially the standard 1/50th shutter
speed will also guarantee false results.

These are the first questioned to be asked when analysing other
persons footage of stills grabbed from video. If they did_not
use these settings, then you are wasting your time, and the
images tell you nothing substantial.

As for the article by James Neff on "The BLURFO trouble with
'Orbs', well that is another story. I have done enough
controlled experimentation to find that the Orb phenomena is
real. Close duplication using dust or flour, does not prove the
Orb phenomena does not exist. Anything can be duplicated, even
UFO's as we know. But that does not make them not a real
phenomena does it?

When experimenting to capture Orbs, I use 35mm colour film plus
digital camera. Always take 3 quick photos of the one scene. How
do you explain Orbs appearing on only one of the series of
photos and not the others? Sometimes take 100 35mm photos and if
lucky may get one only with Orb in it. This is an interesting
and real mystery, and should not be scoffed at. True
experimentation will eventually yield positive results. Why not
continue your research James and Bruce, you will be pleasantly
surprised.


Regards,

Barry Taylor









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                             Re: BLURFOs - Hatch

From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 02:27:14 -0800
Fwd Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 11:19:54 -0500
Subject: Re: BLURFOs - Hatch


>From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 05:29:14 -0800
>Subject: BLURFOs

>We have a real problem. Lately, anything that streaks across a
>digital camera lens or video cam is being hailed as a flying
>saucer or UFO photo....

>Read more about it and see the illustrations at:

>http://www.rense.com/general49/blurfo.htm


Hello Bill, James, Bruce..

This is a nice piece of work. I fear though that the people who
need the information the most will either miss it or reject it
out of hand.

One telling thing is the number of people who didn't see
anything strange until they viewed the media after the fact. It
is _then_ that they discover UFOs, 'rods' <LOL> <burp>

I'm not about to preach to those types, big waste of time.
However, you have provided a nice display for the few who
sincerely want to solve a mystery.


Best wishes

- Larry








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                Re: Explanations For MOC #M08--04688 - Hatch

From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 04:31:17 -0800
Fwd Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 11:22:46 -0500
Subject: Re: Explanations For MOC #M08--04688 - Hatch


>From: Vince White <Vinceomni.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 13:38:43 EST
>Subject: Explanations For MOC #M08--04688

>The Mars pictures from NASA's OPPORTUNITY are impressive and
>deserve high congratulations. Yet far more impressive Mars
>images have been returned and are virtually ignored. Indeed,
>most of the world and I daresay most Listers haven't seen the
>truly anomalous images.

>How many national daily newspapers have run MOC M08-04688? In
>the flood of published Mars images, this strip is largely
>missing.

>http://ida.wr.usgs.gov/display/MGSC_1066/m08046/m0804688.imq.jpg

>This image strip shows radially branching dendroidal structures,
>with long vertical shadows. One can see primary, secondary,
>tertiary, branches. Yes, clear branches are visible. They appear
>to be giant trees. If this is geophysics, it is truly exotic
>geophysics, appearing on a relatively flat plain.

<snip>

>What do listers who have actually taken a look at this image
>strip think explains the radially branching structures? NASA
>seems largely silent on this. Why?

Hello Vince:

Somehow I missed that image as well.

Using the 08-4688 number, I browsed up a lot of web pages,
mostly from pro (Mars) life sites.

I found some official ones too, MOC / Malin SSS but those just
presented the strip image(s) without comment.

Other MOC images are presented with Malin/NASA commentary,
things like " the large crater at center is such-and-such in
size .. illumination is from the upper left .. the channel
suggests the possibility of an ancient stream .. "

But here I read nothing. Just the 04688 images, and you have to
download and search large files to get to the interesting parts.

If the experts at Malin SSS and/or NASA are undecided or
reluctant to give opinions about these odd features, they should
simply say so.

Not to do so only feeds the paranoia of conspiracy types etc.

While browsing, I found something else I had missed. So called
"spiders" are features that look (to me) like small canyons
branching and radiating out from central points, as if water
eroded them into a central drain hole!

Here's an interesting page about those:

http://www.newfrontiersinscience.com/Members/v02n03/a/NFS0203a.shtml


"Fibonacci Branching" is found throughout nature, but always in
the context of living things, unlike river deltas, say. See page
above for a discussion of that.

I agree we should insist on some official discussion of these
features from the experts.

Is this geology? Fine. Lets all learn some new geology, and not
be treated to a wall of silence, as if we were simple minded
payers of the bills, otherwise left out of the loop.

Note: If man ever lands on Mars, it is absolutely imperative
that _no_trace_ of English Ivy be on board. Not a single
molecule.


Best

- Larry Hatch









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                 Re: Friedman & McGaha To Debate - Lehmberg

From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg.nul>
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 06:39:26 -0600
Fwd Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 11:32:22 -0500
Subject: Re: Friedman & McGaha To Debate - Lehmberg


From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 10:28:38 -0800
Fwd Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 15:38:47 -0500
Subject: Re: Friedman & McGaha To Debate - Warren

<snip>

Any word on whether that taped debate is ready for purchase.
I've got 20 dollars burning a hole in my pocket! <G>


Lehmberg.nul

EXPLORE "AlienViewGroup" at its HostPros URL.
http://www.alienview.net


JOHN FORD RESTORATION FUND -- John will be released eventually.
He'll need a tax free cash stake to get on his feet. Let's put
one together for him; the bigger it is -- the more attention
he gets. It could have been you. E-mail for detail.
$450.00 pledged -- $200.00 collected!

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite.
What others see from afar, I leave far behind me."
- Giordano Bruno, scourged by the scabrously specious scurrilous.








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                             Re: BLURFOs - Hatch

From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 04:41:44 -0800
Fwd Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 11:40:46 -0500
Subject: Re: BLURFOs - Hatch


>From: Stuart Miller <Stuart.Miller4.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 19:40:54 -0000
>Subject: Re: BLURFOs

>>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 12:14:30 -0500
>>Subject: Re: BLURFOs

<snip>

>>I suspect that James Neff's warning (and those of others who
>>prefer fact over fantasy) will fall on deaf ears, however, and
>>that, e.g., the pages of a certain UK magazine will continue to
>>be replete with enough color images of 'orbs' (dust, as clearly
>>demonstrated in Neff's article) and other prosaic artifacts of
>>photography as to make any realist nauseated.

>If you have ever edited a magazine, and when I say "a magazine",
>I mean one intended for the newstands - as opposed to one to
>give out to a few like-minded friends - then you will know that
>you don't restrict it's contents to just what you would like to
>see in it.

>Aside from the commercial aspects, its about people and about
>giving them access. Life would be a lot simpler without
>customers but as Palin said to Cleese in the "Dirty Fork"
>sketch, "Never kill a customer - it's bad for business". I
>didn't particularly care for the orbs pix either but there it
>is.

Hello Stuart:

I suppose that explains that. At least you are up-front about
it.

Would you care to tell us which publication you and Ray are
referring to?


Thanks in advance

- Larry Hatch








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                       Solar System's Chilling Mystery

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 05:57:01 -0800
Fwd Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 12:48:57 -0500
Subject: Solar System's Chilling Mystery



Source: The Scotsman

http://news.scotsman.com/scitech.cfm?id5822004

21 Feb 2004


Solar system's chilling mystery

Alastair Dalton
Science Correspondent

Astronomers believe they have found the largest object in the
solar system since the discovery of Pluto in 1930.

The frozen celestial body or planetoid, named 2004 DW, is 4.4
billion miles from Earth and appears to be more than half the
size of Pluto.

Preliminary observations suggest it is 10 per cent larger than
Quaoar, a 800-mile diameter object found in 2002.

Professor Mike Brown, an astronomer from the California
Institute of Technology, said: "Right now, it looks like it
could be bigger than Quaoar, which would put it bigger than
anything since Pluto."

The object was found on Monday by Prof Brown and his colleagues,
Dr Chad Trujillo, of the Gemini Observatory in Hawaii, and Dr
David Rabinowitz, of Yale University in Connecticut, using the
48in Samuel Oschin telescope at the Palomar Observatory, near
San Diego in California.

The telescope has a 150-megapixel camera, which the astronomers
used to take three images of the same patch of sky at 90-minute
intervals.

They compared the trio of images to reveal the presence of a
distant object in orbit, since it changed position from picture
to picture and clearly stood out against the static backdrop of
distant stars.

Prof Brown said: "We simply look for things that move. Even
things that are four billion miles away move. They move very
little - they inch across our screen - but it�s enough to know
there�s something out there."

The object lies at the outer fringes of the Kuiper Belt, a swarm
of frozen rock and ice beyond the orbit of Neptune.

Pluto is the largest known object in the Kuiper Belt, although
it is traditionally considered a planet - the ninth discovered
in the solar system. The new-found frozen world is the 15th
object larger than 300 miles in diameter found in the region.

Preliminary measurements suggest the object follows an
elliptical orbit that takes it as close as 2.7 billion miles to
the sun and as far out as 4.7 billion miles. It takes an
estimated 252 years for the object to complete one orbit of the
sun.

Pluto was discovered 74 years ago on Wednesday, by Clyde
Tombaugh, an American astronomer, from the examination of a
series of pictures taken a month previously at Lowell
Observatory in Arizona.








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                         Re: The Illuminati - Boone

From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 09:38:59 EST
Fwd Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 12:51:12 -0500
Subject: Re: The Illuminati - Boone



Thanks List for the "Illuminati" links and data.

This has very much to do with Ufology I can assure you.

I'm getting in touch with a friend who is willing to go on the
air and rat these people out.

I've got to go back and start from scratch - no pun intended -
in regards to the Illuminati and similar groups.

That's one thing I like about Ufology, no matter where you turn
you've got to be on your toes studying every science, history,
humanities. Sometimes I feel like 'Mr. Spock'.

I have family that are top top lawyers and judges in the U.S.
They told me to back and study the Constitution in regard to
banking. That was a suprise! I think our entire banking system
in the U.S. is bass-ackwards and man oh man is there some dirt
to be dug up.


Best,

Greg








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                         Re: The Illuminati - Hatch

From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 06:39:13 -0800
Fwd Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 12:53:42 -0500
Subject: Re: The Illuminati - Hatch


>From: Neil Olsen <sovot.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 20:17:17 -0800
>Subject: Re: The Illuminati

>>From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 11:35:01 EST
>>Subject: The Illuminati

>>Okay, sometimes in this area of research things can go from
>>weird to weirder to weirdest.

><snip>

>>So my next question is for more data from reliable sources about
>>this group and groups like it.

>>Any suggestions, i.e. books, tapes, websites?

>Greg and List;

>The world banking system including the US Federal Reserve bank is
>(allegedly) controlled by the Illuminati. A good place to start is
>http://www.worldnewsstand.net/today/articles/fedprivatelyowned.htm

>For a wider expose of the Illuminati banking group, go to:

>http://search.freefind.com/find.html?id=63082184&pid=r&mode=ALL&n=0&query=Illum
inati



Dear Neil:

I think the Illuminati should put up a nice website. Its about
time. Heck, I did just that on a shoestring.

Any Commie-*** conspiracy without a nice website isn't much
worth worrying about these days.

My sister's pet bird probably has at least a Geocities site up.
If the Illuminati cannot come up with their own rant-page, I
doubt <burp> there is much to fear.

Even the Roman Catholic Church has up a website nowadays, so
does every seller of scented candles. If the Illuminati wish a
bit of exposure, there is no better vehicle.

IF the 'Illuminati' wish to stay in the dark, or leave the rest
of us in the dark, I can only thank them for their unintended
kindness.

Politicians are not "Illuminati". They are simply people who got
voted for too much. I won't be making that same mistake twice.


Best wishes

- Larry Hatch








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                          Re: The Illuminati - Hall

From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 16:29:21 +0000
Fwd Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 12:57:34 -0500
Subject: Re: The Illuminati - Hall


>From: Neil Olsen <sovot.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 20:17:17 -0800
>Subject: Re: The Illuminati

>>From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 11:35:01 EST
>>Subject: The Illuminati


<snip>

Has this List suddenly lost its collective marbles? Spare us
this 'Illuminati' nonsense and do a little historical research
into its irrational and largely anti-semitic roots.

Start by reading Daniel Pipes' book. Good Lord, what arrant
nonsense.

In my philosophy student days we called this sort of thing the
"Devil in the Corner" theory. You can 'explain' almost anything
by assuming an all-powerful, evil devil figure lurking in the
corner and doing people in.

The Skull and Bones at Yale thing is vastly overstated here.
Secret, yes. Evil or whatever negative connotation you like, no!

It's just a bunch of young men playing games just like many (not
all) fraternities also do. I never thought of the fraternities I
saw as 'evil'. Stupid and childish in some cases, yes.

And I still insist to you Vast Conspiracy theorists, name your
"evil" parties. Be specific. Cite factual evidence (not the
mutterings without evidence of various web sites).

Bah, humbug!


- Dick








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                           Re: BLURFOs - Bugliaro

From: Michele Bugliaro <michelebugliaro.nul>
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 17:50:02 +0100
Fwd Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 13:00:14 -0500
Subject: Re: BLURFOs - Bugliaro


>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 02:27:14 -0800
>Subject: Re: BLURFOs

>>From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 05:29:14 -0800
>>Subject: BLURFOs

>>We have a real problem. Lately, anything that streaks across a
>>digital camera lens or video cam is being hailed as a flying
>>saucer or UFO photo....

Hello list.

I've been reading posts for a while; I must say a lot of you are
really good researchers. I fully agree with the problem exposed
here.

>>Read more about it and see the illustrations at:

>>http://www.rense.com/general49/blurfo.htm

>This is a nice piece of work. I fear though that the people who
>need the information the most will either miss it or reject it
>out of hand.

That was useful. Once more, I agree.

>One telling thing is the number of people who didn't see
>anything strange until they viewed the media after the fact. It
>is _then_ that they discover UFOs, 'rods' <LOL><burp>

>I'm not about to preach to those types, big waste of time.
>However, you have provided a nice display for the few who
>sincerely want to solve a mystery.

Well, it's a real problem. I've seen a lot of these exemples on
the web, from all sort of "paranormal researchers" who spot orbs
all over the place. I'm having a laugh here:

http://www.orbsbybeans.com/photogallery.html :-)

Question: do you think it's possible to explain rods in a
similar way?


Best wishes from far Switzerland. I hope my English is good
enough.



................................
Michele Bugliaro, Designer SUP, Red. Informiamo.com
<http://www.ufopsi.com>
<http://pub169.ezboard.com/bufopsiforum>
................................
"We all live with the objective of being happy;
our lives are all different and yet the same."
                                 --Anne Frank









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             Center For Physical Trace Research Update 02-21-04

From: Ted Phillips - I.A.I. <archaeoanom.nul-linc.net>
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 11:10:09 -0600
Fwd Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 13:07:10 -0500
Subject: Center For Physical Trace Research Update 02-21-04


Center For Physical Trace Research
Information Update - February 21, 2004

As stated in 1998, the Center has no desire to infringe on or
take away information from any investigator in the field or in
his armchair. The purpose of this project remains the same:
gathering data on possible UFO landings and resulting physical
traces. I have no idea why these events take place, where the
objects might originate or the purpose of said objects.

This information will be emailed to a select list of serious and
unbiased researchers on a regular basis. If this information
offends any of the people on the List just let me know and you
will be quickly removed.

I am currently involved with three projects; the Slovakian Cave
Project, the Missouri Project, and a multiple witness, long
duration project involving orbs seen and photographed in
daylight and at night with daylight landing events. More
information on these projects in the next update.


Latest Reports:

02/10/04 - UK, Meanwood - Eight witnesses observed an object some
50 feet in diameter and 20 feet thick. It approached and landed
in a quarry with no sound. An hour later a check of the area
revealed three triangular depressions and damaged trees. The
depressions were 25 feet apart and each was pushed 8 inches into
the ground.

01/0003 - Australia, Wullagi, Northern Territories - Four-year-
old child tells her mother that late one night three "frogmen"
like figures came in through the bedroom window encased in a
mist. She tries to wake her mother that sleeps in the bed with
her but is unable to. The dog in the room does not react. The
mother heard noises, in the bushes outside the window, she was
unable to get up from the bed. A scorched area and burnt foliage
was found on the ground in the yard.

01/01/03 - Puerto Rico, Carolina - Matmari and Martin Rodriguez
C. saw an object approaching which crashed against the leaves of
a palm tree and burned about one meter of grass in their yard.
Officials for the Arecibo Observatory and the Environmental
Quality Board found radiation at the site.

01/26/03 - Argentina, San Andres de Giles - locals found a circle
some 23 feet in diameter with burned grass and a white ash-like
substance at its center. Around the perfect circle, soybean
plants were green and two feet high.

02/00/03 - England, Horsham, West Sussex - Witness reported
seeing a silver suited 7 foot tall man, which leapt across the
width of the road in one bound. There have been odd chemical
odors, apparent lack of oxygen, rapid changes in temperature in
the area. A bright blue light which, when approached was found
to be a 40 foot vertical flame in the middle of the woods.

02/21/03 - 2200 - Canada, Wellington - 5 witnesses, house lights
went out and the - two family dogs reacted. They saw a bright
light in the yard, like a camera flash in brightness. They could
then see three objects hovering for five minutes. They changed
shape and formation, and moved vertically making 90 degree
turns. A sixth witness tried to use her cell phone but it
wouldn't work properly. The lights climbed at high speed and the
house lights came back on. The witnesses found a melted area of
snow in a triangle with circles at each tip. The event lasted 25
minutes.

02/23/03 - 0900 - Argentina, Las Pailas, Salta - 24-year-old
Milagros Linquin had gone to a rocky hillside to retrieve her
goats when she noticed a shiny object on the nearby hill. Close
to the summit she saw a metallic object, rectangular in shape
with numerous visible windows. She counted eight windows on the
object. Around the object she saw numerous shiny objects, square
in shape, some larger than others. She counted 14 of these
square metallic "covers." At this point, her father, 74-year-old
Don Linquin came up and also saw the shiny object. In the
meantime, Milagros had climbed a bit further and was now closer
to the object. At this point both witnesses noticed several
human-like figures wearing white garments and moving around the
object, apparently working on the shiny covers. There were five
figures in total. After about 30 minutes, Milagros climbed
higher in order to approach the object. The object disappears
leaving a deep rectangular track in the ground.

04/18/03 - 1817 - Russia, Kaliningrad - A large number of local
residents watched as a "flying wing" shaped object flew over at
high speed and plunged into Kaliningrad Harbor. The event was
caught on video by a local RTR Russian State Television news
crew, which was present on the naval base, filing a documentary
segment on the Russian Baltic Fleet. According to a Russian
Naval Commander, stated that object had been tracked on numerous
radar systems as it came in. The light colored gray device, with
no visible seams or rivet patterns, was estimated to be the size
of a small airliner, with no sound. - One Sovremini Class
Destroyer was slightly damaged by the ejected debris. Radiation
was reportedly detected and debris less than one meter in size
was recovered.

05/00/03 - Russia, Moscow region - Witness and her mother were
sitting on the porch when they saw a "cloud" of unusual form.
Thinking it was just a cloud they retired and late that night
they awoke with terrible headaches and an odd vibration. A
bright beam of light came through the window and moved across
the room. As soon as she was out of the light the headache
ceased. The witness went to the porch and saw a pear-shaped
"cloud" just like the one seen earlier. It was now much
brighter, with silvery, blue beams of light and a protrusion
resembling an antenna. The witness ran toward the object and
suddenly her body felt weightless and she seemed to float above
the ground. She floated quickly towards the bright object and
when she was less than 2 meters away she fell and lost
consciousness. She came to the next morning lying on the cold
ground. She had been there for over three hours. She and her
mother went to the spot where the object had been and found a
circular burnt patch on the potato bed. Nothing grew on the spot
for three months.

08/00/03 -  Canada, St. Laurent, Manitoba - During the last week
in August four witnesses were driving south of St. Laurent
towards the golf course road when they saw flashing light over
and above one of the buildings on the course. The lights were
hovering in one area and very low over the sheds. The witnesses
thought, after seeing a car pulled to one side of the road with
the lights flashing, that someone might be breaking into the
shed. Two of the men decided to sneak in to see if they could
catch someone causing damage. The other two went back home to
get their parents. As the two were half-way down to the area
they passed near a dugout and heard a loud, piercing scream.
They walked another 100 feet and a three-foot tall being ran in
front of them 25 feet away. Both men ran back towards the road.
Shortly after the two youths arrived with their parents. Unusual
holes found in the ground throughout the area.

08/11/03 - 0500 - Poland, Szcecinek - Mr Lech Hacinski going home
after work saw three figures standing under a nearby overpass.
One of the figures left the others and walked to the middle of
the road with one of its hands raised up. Hacinski was forced to
stop his car as the figure stood in the road. Witness claimed
the figure asked him questions about the car and how it operated
using telepathy. After something of a conversation the figures
floated to a nearby field where a huge dark round object rested
on the ground. The bottom of the device was surrounded by fog.
Beings disappeared into the object, which ascended to the west
at high speed. On the field where the object had landed a 50
meter wide circular area of flattened wheat.

12/15/03 -  MO, Louisburg - "On the night of 12/15/2003. As my
wife and I were pulling into our driveway after a dinner out, we
noticed a bright light back in our fields. We live on a farm and
our fields extend out for a mile behind our house. It was
raining and the air was thick as fog. But we could see this
bright light in the field. The light shoots straight up into the
sky, disappearing into the clouds. I didn't see anything but a
big ball of light. The next day we walked about half a mile and
found a ring10 feet in diameter. I never believed in UFOs before
and had never seen anything like this.










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                           Re: BLURFOs - Stanford

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 12:19:57 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 13:19:58 -0500
Subject: Re: BLURFOs - Stanford


>From: Stuart Miller <Stuart.Miller4.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 19:40:54 -0000
>Subject: Re: BLURFOs

>>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 12:14:30 -0500
>>Subject: Re: BLURFOs

>>>From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22.nul>
>>>To: "UFO UpDates - Toronto" <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 05:29:14 -0800
>>>Subject: BLURFOs

>>I suspect that James Neff's warning (and those of others who
>>prefer fact over fantasy) will fall on deaf ears, however, and
>>that, e.g., the pages of a certain UK magazine will continue to
>>be replete with enough color images of 'orbs' (dust, as clearly
>>demonstrated in Neff's article) and other prosaic artifacts of
>>photography as to make any realist nauseated.

>Hi Ray,

>If you have ever edited a magazine, and when I say "a magazine",
>I mean one intended for the newstands - as opposed to one to
>give out to a few like-minded friends - then you will know that
>you don't restrict it's contents to just what you would like to
>see in it.

>Aside from the commercial aspects, its about people and about
>giving them access. Life would be a lot simpler without
>customers but as Palin said to Cleese in the "Dirty Fork"
>sketch, "Never kill a customer - it's bad for business". I
>didn't particularly care for the orbs pix either but there it
>is.


Hi Stuart,

I understand what you're saying, but no not at all agree with
such 'taking' of an uninformed public with photographic
artifacts (i.e., 'orbs', as clearly demythologized by Neff and
others before him) presented in a context by which they may be
misunderstood as images of truly anomalous objects or phenomena.

It is reasonable to speculate that UFO magazine's editorial
policy on such serves, ultimately, to the detriment of the
magazine and goes against the credibility of UFO research in
general. If such policy is maintained, ultimately, the magazine
will come to be regarded more and more as the tabloids 'Weekly
World News', 'Globe', or whatever. In fact, I could introduce
you to a number of seriously UFO-interested scientists and
engineers who already feel that way.

In maintaining the position the magazine has taken concerning
such things, some persons who are doing serious, objective, and
scientifically credible UFO research increasingly cringe at
submitting an even highly popularized article for the magazine.
How do I know? I have talked to some of them who have considered
and rejected submission of interesting and, IMO, evidential and
important manuscripts.

Don't tell us that respect for readership and credibility is not
the best editorial policy in the long run.

Poor, indeed, is the publication that thrives off feeding the
appetites of the wide-eyed, which seems to be the policy your
message of today is describing.

Likewise poor is the magazine that nether respects its audience
nor respects copyright law. A back issue of UFO magazine has
today been handed to me that illegally (in violation of
copyright law) reproduces the beautiful and accurately detailed
landing-site illustrations from my book on the Socorro, New
Mexico, UFO landing without having asked permission to reproduce
them and without any attribution, whatsoever. That is a clear
and demonstrable violation of copyright law, and may be legally
actionable.


Quite Seriously,

Ray Stanford

"Men have become the tools of their tools."
                    -- Henry David Thoreau








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                           Re: BLURFOs - Stanford

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 12:31:41 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 13:22:13 -0500
Subject: Re: BLURFOs - Stanford


>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 04:41:44 -0800
>Subject: Re: BLURFOs

>>From: Stuart Miller <Stuart.Miller4.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 19:40:54 -0000
>>Subject: Re: BLURFOs

>>>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 12:14:30 -0500
>>>Subject: Re: BLURFOs

><snip>

>>>I suspect that James Neff's warning (and those of others who
>>>prefer fact over fantasy) will fall on deaf ears, however, and
>>>that, e.g., the pages of a certain UK magazine will continue to
>>>be replete with enough color images of 'orbs' (dust, as clearly
>>>demonstrated in Neff's article) and other prosaic artifacts of
>>>photography as to make any realist nauseated.

>>If you have ever edited a magazine, and when I say "a magazine",
>>I mean one intended for the newstands - as opposed to one to
>>give out to a few like-minded friends - then you will know that
>>you don't restrict it's contents to just what you would like to
>>see in it.

>>Aside from the commercial aspects, its about people and about
>>giving them access. Life would be a lot simpler without
>>customers but as Palin said to Cleese in the "Dirty Fork"
>>sketch, "Never kill a customer - it's bad for business". I
>>didn't particularly care for the orbs pix either but there it
>>is.

>I suppose that explains that. At least you are up-front about
>it.

>Would you care to tell us which publication you and Ray are
>referring to?


Hi Larry,

We are referring to the UFO Magazine (published in the UK, but
available elsewhere at newsstands), formerly edited by the late
Graham Birdsall.

I have more to say about that publication's editorial policies
in an earlier posting today.


Ray Stanford

"You know my method. It is founded upon the observance of
trifles." -- Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery








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                       UFO Magazine UK [was: BLURFOs]

From: Stuart Miller <Stuart.Miller4.nul>
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 17:36:32 -0000
Fwd Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 13:25:19 -0500
Subject: UFO Magazine UK [was: BLURFOs]


>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 04:41:44 -0800
>Subject: Re: BLURFOs

>>From: Stuart Miller <Stuart.Miller4.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 19:40:54 -0000
>>Subject: Re: BLURFOs

>>>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 12:14:30 -0500
>>>Subject: Re: BLURFOs

<snip>

>>>I suspect that James Neff's warning (and those of others who
>>>prefer fact over fantasy) will fall on deaf ears, however, and
>>>that, e.g., the pages of a certain UK magazine will continue to
>>>be replete with enough color images of 'orbs' (dust, as clearly
>>>demonstrated in Neff's article) and other prosaic artifacts of
>>>photography as to make any realist nauseated.

>>If you have ever edited a magazine, and when I say "a magazine",
>>I mean one intended for the newstands - as opposed to one to
>>give out to a few like-minded friends - then you will know that
>>you don't restrict it's contents to just what you would like to
>>see in it.

>>Aside from the commercial aspects, its about people and about
>>giving them access. Life would be a lot simpler without
>>customers but as Palin said to Cleese in the "Dirty Fork"
>>sketch, "Never kill a customer - it's bad for business". I
>>didn't particularly care for the orbs pix either but there it
>>is.

>I suppose that explains that. At least you are up-front about
>it.

>Would you care to tell us which publication you and Ray are
>referring to?

Hello Larry

Ray was referring to UFO Magazine as publsihed in the UK - no
relation to the American version.

We did, a couple months or so back, feature quite a number of
pictures of orbs sent in by readers.

A couple of points. Firstly Ray is entitled to his opinion,
which I respect, and I hope it was understood that I wasn't
complaining per se about his comments.

Secondly Larry, it's not really much of an admission. UFO
Magazine is a commercial publication and as such, it cannot be
all things to everyone. Inevitably therefore, there will be
articles or features that don't appeal to some. Also, through
enforced circumstances, we have a new editor, Russ, and Russ
will bring his own touch and philosphy to the way he edits the
mag. I'm sure I'm teaching you to suck eggs here.

As I mentioned, I personally did not care for the piece on orbs
we did as I'm not particularly into them. But if I had been
editor, I almost certainly would have included the piece because
there was reader interest. No readers, no mag.

It's all about keeping an editorial balance and I think Russ is
well on line with that, as Graham was before him. As an added
point, our editor is very approachable and if any writers on
this List are having trouble getting published then please
consider us (yes, despite or because of the orbs) and anything
sent in will be given very serious consideration.


QPIL.nul


Stuart Miller








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                       Suppression Of Exopolitics Book

From: Max Dean Parsons Snr. <mparsons1.nul>
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 12:37:58 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 13:35:17 -0500
Subject: Suppression Of Exopolitics Book

To: Peter Carlson <carlsonp.nul>

[Non-Subscriber Post]

-----

From: Dr Michael Salla <exopolitics.nul>
Sent: Saturday, February 21, 2004 10:28 AM
To: exopolitics.nul
Subject: [exopolitics] Suppression of Exopolitics Book -
          Record Pulled from Database

Greetings All, this is to let you know that the information
about my recently released book, Exopolitics: Political
Implications of the Extraterrestrial Presence, was 'removed' by
someone from the large databased used by large retail bookstores
to place orders from customers. I tried the large book store
chains, Borders and  Barnes & Noble, to see if orders could be
placed and they had no record of the book and told me they
couldn't do anything about it, and thought that the book might
not yet be available.

This was significant since after the Washington Post article on
the Eisenhower meeting there would have been hundreds of
inquiries about the book but people would have been told it's
unavailable. I got the following message from my publisher,
Dandelion Books, confirming that someone had pulled the records
from the database. This was most likely the work of one of the
US alphabet agencies working with the ET management teams who
don't want the book to become widely circulated due to the
information in it.

Here is the message I received from Carol Adler, President of
Dandelion Books:


"Michael, "someone" removed the information from the Bowker
Books in Print data base... I know it was entered because the
cookies were still there, but the entire file was wiped out.

Try the stores tomorrow... They should be able to bring it up on
the live data base,since I just re-entered it... and it should
show immediately. Please let me know. I have a direct contact to
a Bowker attorney because I've been through this before.

They'll all getting to know me <lol>"

-----

Dr. Salla, welcome to the real world. Dirty tricks 101 and:


Ike Snd the Alien Ambassadors

The Whole Tooth About the President's Extraterrestrial Encounter

By Peter Carlson
Washington Post Staff Writer

Thursday, February 19, 2004; Page C01

Fifty years ago tomorrow -- on Feb. 20, 1954 -- President Dwight
Eisenhower interrupted his vacation in Palm Springs, Calif., to
make a secret nocturnal trip to a nearby Air Force base to meet
two extraterrestrial aliens.

[more]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A53203-2004Feb18.html

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A53203-2004Feb18?language=printer

c .2004 The Washington Post Company








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                     Keyless Car & Garage Entry Mystery

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 13:56:18 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 13:56:18 -0500
Subject: Keyless Car & Garage Entry Mystery




Source: KLAS-TV CBS 8 - Las Vegas, Nevada

http://www.klas-tv.com/global/story.asp?s=1657460

02-20-04

Michael Geeser
Consumer Editor


Keyless Car & Garage Entry Mystery

Have you had problems with your keyless car remote? You weren't
alone. It happened to hundreds of people here in the Valley. The
problem is the remotes for car doors and garage doors didn't
work for many people Friday. Why, is the big question.

Mechanics at the dealerships don't know why. Neither does the
National Weather Service. 8 On Your Side spoke with a Mark
Garner the Chair of the Science Department at Community College
of Southern Nevada, who said; possibly it has to do with some
type of device being used to jam frequencies.

8 On Your Side called Nellis Air Force Base and they said it's
not them, which leaves car dealerships to deal with the problem.
"Well we've had a flood of them come in today and tell us there
cars won't start," says Steve Grossardt of Gaudin Ford, "They're
going to parts departments and putting batteries and still won't
work, they're coming to us and asking to reprogram them and
we're telling them it's not us causing the problem."

So what do you do if you can't get in your car? It may remind
you of yesteryear, but the key still opens the door. If your car
won't start, Grossardt reminds everyone there is a bypass
button.







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                       Re: The Beveridge UFO - DeMary

From: Tom DeMary <t.demary.nul>
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 12:55:23 -0600
Fwd Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 14:40:50 -0500
Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO - DeMary


It is not clear to me that the time/sun angle has been nailed
down. Much of the discussion was based on the camera time of
14:52 pm which gives an altitude of about 55 degrees (Azimuth
287 degrees), as used in some of the posts. However, the shadows
in the photos are quite short, suggesting that the Sun is more
overhead. Standard time was assumed for that calculation.

The photographer said that the time was about 2 pm. Since the
location was Eastern Australia in the summer, he surely meant 2
pm Australian Eastern Daylight Time. Yes? No?

At 2 pm AEDT, the Sun was at 73 degrees altitude and 335 degrees
azimuth. At 14:52 AEDT the Sun was at 66 degrees altitude and
306 degrees azimuth.

The Sun crossed the meridian (High Noon) at the site of the
photo about 1:29 pm AEDT.

I think that these higher altitudes are more in keeping with the
short shadows, but they probably don't affect anyone's
speculations.


Tom DeMary








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                      Re: Excalibur Briefing - Stanford

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 14:00:42 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 14:42:46 -0500
Subject: Re: Excalibur Briefing - Stanford


>From: John Novak <john.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 17:06:29 -0800
>Subject: Re: Excalibur Briefing

>>From: John Rimmer <jrimmer.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 23:54:52 +0000
>>Subject: Re: Excalibur Briefing

>>>From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 08:22:28 -0600
>>>Subject: Re: Excalibur Briefing

<snip>

>His Royal Highness, King Dubya

>Burke's publishing director, Harold Brooks-Baker says Bush's
>royal connections are startling.

>"[Bush] is closely related to every European Monarch both on and
>off the throne," says Brooks-Baker.

A dubious Texan wondereth: "What meaneth that?! Darest he say
that 'King Dubya' be the most monorchid U.S. President ever?!"
 :-)

Sorry, I just couldn't resist the pun! [If you don't know what
monorchid means, look it up in a medical or a veterinary
dictionary.]

Whatever your political opinion, have at least a nice Ufological
weekend. Not everyone can have a ball, after all. :o)


Ray Stanford

"You know my method. It is founded upon the observance of
trifles." -- Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery








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                              John Ford Update!

From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg.nul>
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 13:01:20 -0600
Fwd Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 14:49:35 -0500
Subject: John Ford Update!


Some Good News regarding John Ford!

-----

From: Kelly Freeman <.nul>
To: Lehmberg.nul
Date: Saturday, February 21, 2004 12:04 PM
Subject: Re: Info


Mr. Lehmberg,

Good to hear from you! John ford is doing fine, or as fine as
one could expect in his situation. He has recently recovered
from colon surgery and the doctors say he is doing fine. He is
currently being "interned" at the Mid-Hudson Psychiatric Center.

Yes, he is quite lucid and still maintains his innocence.

Currently, Mr. Ford is seeking to file a lawsuit against the
Suffolk County Police Dept. and the District Attorney's Office
for seizing all of LIUFON's files/records. Perhaps the money can
be raised to support this effort.

I lived on Long Island from 1983 to 1990 and started ufo
investigations with LIUFON in 1988. I was with the initial
investigation of the Moriches Bay Incident, and although I
didn't participate in all of the investigation, the witnesses I
had a chance to interview certainly seemed sincere. I can also
attest to the fact that black helicopter activity was intense
and I myself was harassed by them.

But aside from that there is a lot more to the story, or at
least my impression is, than what most people may be aware of.
That's all I can say for now. I don't know how much the
political machine of Long Island may have had or not had to do
with it, but it certainly was convenient wasn't it?

I am still puzzled by the whole thing and get chills down my
spine when i think of the implications.

John is supposed to call me within the next couple weeks and I
will tell him about your support and others. Are you interested
in receiving his mailing address? I am sure he would welome all
letters of support.

...Look forward to hearing from you. have a good day and may
peace be with you always.


Mr. Kelly Freeman
Florida UFO Network








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                            Re: BLURFOs - Sandow

From: Greg Sandow <greg.nul>
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 14:25:14 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 15:05:26 -0500
Subject: Re: BLURFOs - Sandow


>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 12:19:57 -0500
>Subject: Re: BLURFOs

>>From: Stuart Miller <Stuart.Miller4.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 19:40:54 -0000
>>Subject: Re: BLURFOs


Ray Stanford is completely right, in the following:

>>If you have ever edited a magazine, and when I say "a
>>magazine", I mean one intended for the newstands - as opposed
>>to one to give out to a few like-minded friends - then you
>>will know that you don't restrict it's contents to just what
>>you would like to see in it.

>I understand what you're saying, but no not at all agree with
>such 'taking' of an uninformed public with photographic
>artifacts (i.e., 'orbs', as clearly demythologized by Neff
>and others before him) presented in a context by which they
>may be misunderstood as images of truly anomalous objects or
>phenomena.

<snip>

>In maintaining the position the magazine has taken concerning
>such things, some persons who are doing serious, objective,
>and scientifically credible UFO research increasingly cringe
>at submitting an even highly popularized article for the magazine.
>How do I know? I have talked to some of them who have
>considered and rejected submission of interesting and, IMO,
>evidential and important manuscripts.

>Don't tell us that respect for readership and credibility is
>not the best editorial policy in the long run.

I've worked for mass-market publications. No, the editors might
not like everything that goes in them. But you don't print
things you know aren't true or credible, just to appeal to
readers. Then your magazine becomes junk, and intelligent people
don't know whether to believe anything that's in it. Then your
credibility drops, maybe to zero, and - at least in the mass
market - your circulation may drop, too. People magazine, for
instance, is different from the National Enquirer, and because
of all its advertising, probably makes a lot more money. But if
what they printed wasn't credible, the advertisers would
disappear, and the magazine would be in trouble. Result: People
may print celebrity-oriented gossip, but you can trust what you
read in it. Not so the Enquirer.

Of course, maybe UFO magazines are different. Maybe intelligent
people, by and large, don't read them. Maybe the only way to
succeed with one commercially is to publish sensational crap.
I'm quite serious about this. Maybe the economic model for UFO
magazines says you have to publish junk to survive.

But then Stuart should say so. I had the wonderful experience,
recently, of having dinner with the head of one of the top
commercial book publishing houses in the US. He's a sharp,
commercial guy, whose company publishes best seller after best
seller. And yet he told a lot of stories of books he wouldn't
publish. In one case, he was offered a book about a celebrity, a
man whose name on the cover of the book would guarantee sales -
especially since the author had access to formerly confidential
papers, and also people in the celebrity's life who'd never
talked about their lives with him before.

But this publisher judged that the writer wasn't good or
credible enough. So he passed on what surely would be a best
seller, simply because he couldn't stand behind the book's
quality. It really is possible to have integrity, and sitll
succeed in the mass market.


Greg Sandow








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                         Re: The Illuminati - Jones

From: Sean Jones <tedric.nul>
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 19:54:54 +0000
Fwd Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 15:08:36 -0500
Subject: Re: The Illuminati - Jones


>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 16:29:21 +0000
>Subject: Re: The Illuminati


I join Richard in the "Bah, humbug!" corner. The Illuminati,
mentioned in the first Lara Croft film, and going back some, in
one of the Indiana Jones films, are a secret society if anything
at all, certainly no hotbed of evil doers.

And so what if they exist, as long as they do no harm, or plan
no harm to others.

It takes all sorts to make this funny world of ours to go round.


Warmest to all

Sean (Jones)
--

   In an infinite universe, infinitely anything is possible.
                        Sean Jones
              http://www.tedric.demon.co.uk/








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                            Re: BLURFOs - Miller

From: Stuart Miller <Stuart.Miller4.nul>
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 20:08:39 -0000
Fwd Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 10:47:50 -0500
Subject: Re: BLURFOs - Miller


>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 12:19:57 -0500
>Subject: Re: BLURFOs

>>From: Stuart Miller <Stuart.Miller4.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 19:40:54 -0000
>>Subject: Re: BLURFOs

<snip>

>Likewise poor is the magazine that nether respects its audience
>nor respects copyright law. A back issue of UFO magazine has
>today been handed to me that illegally (in violation of
>copyright law) reproduces the beautiful and accurately detailed
>landing-site illustrations from my book on the Socorro, New
>Mexico, UFO landing without having asked permission to reproduce
>them and without any attribution, whatsoever. That is a clear
>and demonstrable violation of copyright law, and may be legally
>actionable.


Ray,

I apologise for the brevity of this (I am about to go out) and I
will answer the rest of your points tomorrow, but I would like
to deal with this point urgently.

If the facts are as you describe, and I have no reason to
question what you say at this moment, then unquestionably we owe
your a profound and sincere apology, which I extend on behalf on
the magazine.

I will do a little bit more digging, which will obviously be on
Monday, and then get back to you again, possibly off List.


Stuart Miller







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                         Re: The Illuminati - Kirkos

From: Nick Kirkos <atlantis.nul>
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 15:11:29 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 10:51:14 -0500
Subject: Re: The Illuminati - Kirkos


>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 16:29:21 +0000
>Subject: Re: The Illuminati

>>From: Neil Olsen <sovot.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 20:17:17 -0800
>>Subject: Re: The Illuminati

>>>From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 11:35:01 EST
>>>Subject: The Illuminati

>Has this List suddenly lost its collective marbles? Spare us
>this 'Illuminati' nonsense and do a little historical research
>into its irrational and largely anti-semitic roots.

<snip>

>And I still insist to you Vast Conspiracy theorists, name your
>"evil" parties. Be specific. Cite factual evidence (not the
>mutterings without evidence of various web sites).

>Bah, humbug!


I enjoy when this List delves into alternate realities. Mr. Hall
may not wish to shake-up his belief systems, that is fine. The
realization that corrupt activities by governments seems to have
no limit is very unsettling and is worthy of discussion.

The Illuminati have been linked to UFOs. Like any and all UFO
theories this can not be proven. So in my book this topic is
fair game for this List.


NK







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                       Re: The Beveridge UFO - Bright

From: Dan Bright <ufo.nul>
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 20:26:19 -0000
Fwd Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 10:52:21 -0500
Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO - Bright


>From: Tom DeMary <t.demary.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 12:55:23 -0600
>Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO

>It is not clear to me that the time/sun angle has been nailed
>down. Much of the discussion was based on the camera time of
>14:52 pm which gives an altitude of about 55 degrees (Azimuth 287
>degrees), as used in some of the posts. However, the shadows in
>the photos are quite short, suggesting that the Sun is more
>overhead.

Hello Tom,

The EXIF data on the camera indicated 14:52. EXIF data is
notoriously unreliable, and of course the camera clock may not
have been set correctly. Therefore, in keeping with the
photographer's recollection that he took the image "about 2pm",
I've been working on the assumption that the camera clock was
one hour fast, making the actual time 13:52 local.

>The photographer said that the time was about 2 pm. Since the
>location was Eastern Australia in the summer, he surely meant 2
>pm Australian Eastern Daylight Time. Yes? No?

Ideally someone would be able to check with the photographer on
this point, but I would assume that he was indicating local time
(GMT+11 hours, including DST)

>At 2 pm AEDT, the Sun was at 73 degrees altitude and 335 degrees
>azimuth. At 14:52 AEDT the Sun was at 66 degrees altitude and 306
>degrees azimuth.

Where did you get those figures Tom? I've been using the
following figures [http://aa.usno.navy.mil/]

13:52: Sun azimuth: 287.6=B0, Sun altitude: 55.1=B0
14:52: Sun azimuth: 275.6=B0, Sun altitude: 43.4=B0


All the best,

Dan

--
Dan Bright
www.zaziork.com







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                Re: Another 50th Anniversary Of Note - White

From: Eleanor White <eleanor.nul>
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 18:06:04 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 11:00:20 -0500
Subject: Re: Another 50th Anniversary Of Note - White


>From: Steven Kaeser <steve.nul>
>To: <Undisclosed-Recipient:;>
>Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 09:48:22 -0500
>Subject: Another 50th Anniversary Of Note

>Source: The Washington Post

>http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A53203-2004Feb18.html

>02-19-04

>Ike and the Alien Ambassadors
>The Whole Tooth About the President's Extraterrestrial Encounter
>By Peter Carlson
>Washington Post Staff Writer
>Thursday, February 19, 2004; Page C01

<snip>

>"They were afraid we might blow up some of our nuclear
>technology," Salla says, "and apparently that does something to
>time and space and it impacts on extraterrestrial races on other
>planets."

I don't doubt that a nuke can impact congruent other dimensions,
but I'm skeptical about the statement above because there are
_huge_ nuclear events going on all over the place - in the
stars.


Eleanor White







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                       Re: Excalibur Briefing - Burns

From: Chris Burns <Thurstonoreggae.nul>
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 18:34:04 EST
Fwd Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 11:02:18 -0500
Subject: Re: Excalibur Briefing - Burns


List,

Wow!

I've been looking over the week's past posts on Bearden and
Excalibur spurred by my initial post, and want to say "a big
thanks" for those who passed on URLs and such.

Although a lot of serious questions were raised about Bearden's
education, expertise and logic, I still think I'll take the time
to read Excalibur - but certainly, now, I can approach it with
some better-defined questions in mind.


Thanks again,

Chris Burns






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                         Re: The Illuminati - Boone

From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 19:57:30 EST
Fwd Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 11:05:46 -0500
Subject: Re: The Illuminati - Boone


>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 16:29:21 +0000
>Subject: Re: The Illuminati

>Has this List suddenly lost its collective marbles? Spare us
>this 'Illuminati' nonsense and do a little historical research
>into its irrational and largely anti-semitic roots.

>Start by reading Daniel Pipes' book. Good Lord, what arrant
>nonsense.

>In my philosophy student days we called this sort of thing the
>"Devil in the Corner" theory. You can 'explain' almost anything
>by assuming an all-powerful, evil devil figure lurking in the
>corner and doing people in.

>The Skull and Bones at Yale thing is vastly overstated here.
>Secret, yes. Evil or whatever negative connotation you like, no!

>It's just a bunch of young men playing games just like many (not
>all) fraternities also do. I never thought of the fraternities I
>saw as 'evil'. Stupid and childish in some cases, yes.

>And I still insist to you Vast Conspiracy theorists, name your
>"evil" parties. Be specific. Cite factual evidence (not the
>mutterings without evidence of various web sites).


Ja Dick, same could be said about UFO research. Yet that we know
is a viable field.

You sound like I did on the subject of the 'Illuminati'. Sure
there's a quagmire of data and overblown speculation but it
doesn't mean we bite the dog for barking.

That old order may have teeth yet in other forms. We've seen
political and religious beliefs ebb and flow.

I wouldn't have brought it up if there wasn't something there.


Best,

Greg







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                             More On John Ford!

From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg.nul>
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 16:17:30 -0600
Fwd Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 11:09:10 -0500
Subject: More On John Ford!


More on Ford! Drop a note to John Ford! You'd like one iff'n it
was _you_!

-----

From: Khfflsciufo.nul
To: Lehmberg.nul
Sent: Saturday, February 21, 2004 1:11 PM
Subject: Re: Info

Mr. Lehmberg,

I have just finished looking through your websites and listening
to the radio program you did on Strange Days...  I would like to
thank you for your support and steadfastness at getting to the
truth of the John Ford Affair.

Here is John's current mailing address;

John Ford,
Mid-Hudson Forensic Psychiatric Center
Box 158,
New Hampton, N.Y.
10958 - 015
wd41 #10022

Stay in touch. And as John Ford would say, "the truth is out
there".


Mr. Kelly Freeman

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"The truth is..." that he's IN there, people! ... And he very
likely _shouldn't_ be --Lehmberg



Lehmberg.nul
www.AlienView.net

Photo Album: http://www.alienview.net/AVAlbum.htm
(send picture as attachment to Lehmberg.nul)
Splash page:   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AlienViewGroup/
Radio Show & Splash Page:  http://www.alienview.net/alienviews.htm
Radio Show Archives: Out of Service at this time...







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                         Re: The Illuminati - McCoy

From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy.nul>
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 20:38:06 -0800
Fwd Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 12:01:39 -0500
Subject: Re: The Illuminati - McCoy


>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 16:29:21 +0000
>Subject: Re: The Illuminati

>>From: Neil Olsen <sovot.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 20:17:17 -0800
>>Subject: Re: The Illuminati

>>>From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 11:35:01 EST
>>>Subject: The Illuminati

>Has this List suddenly lost its collective marbles? Spare us
>this 'Illuminati' nonsense and do a little historical research
>into its irrational and largely anti-semitic roots.

Yes, and its anti-Catholic roots too, I've read the 'Holy Blood
Holy Grail' tome, and it, like the 'Da Vinci Code is well, crap.

Not quite on the order of the Proticols Of The Masters of Zion
but nontheless, fantasy.

>Start by reading Daniel Pipes' book. Good Lord, what arrant
>nonsense.

>In my philosophy student days we called this sort of thing the
>"Devil in the Corner" theory. You can 'explain' almost anything
>by assuming an all-powerful, evil devil figure lurking in the
>corner and doing people in.

The Devil is rolling on the floor of Hell laughing his tail off
at the human effort to find him in every corner. <G>


>The Skull and Bones at Yale thing is vastly overstated here.
>Secret, yes. Evil or whatever negative connotation you like, no!

>It's just a bunch of young men playing games just like many (not
>all) fraternities also do. I never thought of the fraternities I
>saw as 'evil'. Stupid and childish in some cases, yes.

Yes I agree, I hated fraternity activity at my own college. My
cousin got expelled for not wearing a 'beanie' (and putting a
couple of upperclassmen in the hospital for trying to make him
wear said beanie.)

>And I still insist to you Vast Conspiracy theorists, name your
>"evil" parties. Be specific. Cite factual evidence (not the
>mutterings without evidence of various web sites).

>Bah, humbug!

Yes , Dick, Bah Humbug!

GT McCoy

"Most conspriacy therories tend to cancel each other out."
--Robert Anton Wilson.








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                             Re: BLURFOs - Hatch

From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 01:39:35 -0800
Fwd Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 12:04:34 -0500
Subject: Re: BLURFOs - Hatch


>From: Michele Bugliaro <michelebugliaro.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 17:50:02 +0100
>Subject: Re: BLURFOs

>>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 02:27:14 -0800
>>Subject: Re: BLURFOs

<snip>

>Well, it's a real problem. I've seen a lot of these examples on
>the web, from all sort of "paranormal researchers" who spot orbs
>all over the place. I'm having a laugh here:

>http://www.orbsbybeans.com/photogallery.html :-)

>Question: do you think it's possible to explain rods in a
>similar way?

>Best wishes from far Switzerland. I hope my English is good
>enough.


Hello Michele:

Your English is just fine! I should speak Helvetian as well.

Rods are as much of a problem as we make of it.

I have the distinct impression that some Rods Promoters do not
want this matter solved!

Maybe they have more to gain, a following perhaps, by
maintaining the mystery and avoiding any solution.

There was one spot mentioned where 'rods' were imaged all the
time. I suggested that the investigators put down their cameras
and pick up a butterfly net. There was little if any response. I
take it this idea was somewhat un-welcome.


Best wishes

- Larry Hatch








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                         Re: The Illuminati - Warren

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 09:04:10 -0800
Fwd Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 12:09:52 -0500
Subject: Re: The Illuminati - Warren


>From: Nick Kirkos <atlantis.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 15:11:29 -0500
>Subject: Re: The Illuminati

>>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 16:29:21 +0000
>>Subject: Re: The Illuminati

<snip>

>>Has this List suddenly lost its collective marbles? Spare us
>>this 'Illuminati' nonsense and do a little historical research
>>into its irrational and largely anti-semitic roots.

><snip>

>>And I still insist to you Vast Conspiracy theorists, name your
>>"evil" parties. Be specific. Cite factual evidence (not the
>>mutterings without evidence of various web sites).

>>Bah, humbug!

>I enjoy when this List delves into alternate realities. Mr. Hall
>may not wish to shake-up his belief systems, that is fine. The
>realization that corrupt activities by governments seems to have
>no limit is very unsettling and is worthy of discussion.

>The Illuminati have been linked to UFOs. Like any and all UFO
>theories this can not be proven. So in my book this topic is
>fair game for this List.


Hello Nick,

Pardon me for interjecting, but the blanket you're putting on
UFOs, is rather large - i.e.: "Like any and all UFO theories,
this can not be proven."

Many theories have been proven about UFOs - it is not a
'faith-based' subject.


Regards,

Frank Warren







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                Last Night's 'Strange Days... Indeed' Program

From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 11:32:49 EST
Fwd Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 12:19:51 -0500
Subject: Last Night's 'Strange Days... Indeed' Program


Saturday night is a big night for the paranormal.

I tuned into Errol Bruce-Knapp's 'Strange Days... Indeed' and
was treated to a jam-packed, edge of the seat thrill ride.

I had a ball! Mr. Ted Phillips was on, noted for his extensive
UFO trace cases research. Found out he was a musician and a
generally jovial gentleman of the kind of down-to-earth ( no pun
intended ) character so rare in the limelight.

He spun a very funny tale about singer Andy Williams a favorite
of my family. We got to learn also about the great state of
Missouri. Quite the music launchpad for countless stars and art
forms! ( I know, one of our ministers is from St. Louis and he
won't shut up about it.)

Also on was John Velez who talked about this List.

John, you spoke of issues I've had to deal with on a daily basis
when working for the old 'Parascope' forum on America Online.
There we covered the paranormal, conspiracies, documentation
etc. and did many a field trip and interview with some of you on
this List and celebs in other fields who had a viewpoint on the
topics. Of note, long time 'Batman' writer Doug Moench - also
known for his 'Big Book' series for DC Comics.

As John observed on the program, the often unprofessional and
disrespectful attacks on Lists, members etc., I had to deal with
on a daily basis. The amount of data that goes through this
List, that we see, is the equivalent to what I would get online,
in real time, in an hour. It was often gruelling, to say the
least. When you've 30 + people every minute expressing
themselves, those 30+ leaving and another wave coming in and out
24/7 you can see.....

We often would have tag teams of people who would appear, just
to invalidate the viewpoints of others. Many times we'd have to
set the hounds on them, and soon discovered they were part of
gangs whose agendas were threatened by any viewpoint they felt
uncomfortable with.

They would mask their screen names, but made the fatal error of
not realizing a trained writer and editor can detect the tell
tale signature - Syntax.

Yep, grammar, diction, all the goodies would pour through. That
and AOL's security procedures nailed them as well.

What was even funnier was, one day one of these jokers sent out
an email to his cronies detailing their next attack. What the
guy failed to realize is that he had included my email address
in his address window. I sat there for 2 days reading how these
knuckleheads were plotting and what they'd done in the past.
Suprised me what groups they were working for! Then I sprang it
on them. Red faces all that day! Suddenly, for about a year,
there was calm in ye old "Grassy Knoll" Chat Room.

When a person resorts to insults they immediately admit they've
run out of facts. The truth needs no anger, nor condescending
rhetoric to make its point. It's the truth.

So John Velez, don't let em' get ya' down. When people act like
that toward you and conspire against you, it only means they're
upset because you've proven yourself better than they, and they
can't stand it.


Best,

Greg







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                        Re: UFO Magazine UK - Miller

From: Stuart Miller <Stuart.Miller4.nul>
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 16:52:49 -0000
Fwd Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 12:29:13 -0500
Subject: Re: UFO Magazine UK - Miller


>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 12:19:57 -0500
>Subject: Re: BLURFOs

>>From: Stuart Miller <Stuart.Miller4.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 19:40:54 -0000
>>Subject: Re: BLURFOs

>>>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 12:14:30 -0500
>>>Subject: Re: BLURFOs

<snip>

>I understand what you're saying, but no not at all agree with
>such 'taking' of an uninformed public with photographic
>artifacts (i.e., 'orbs', as clearly demythologized by Neff and
>others before him) presented in a context by which they may be
>misunderstood as images of truly anomalous objects or phenomena.

Hello Ray,

Well, it would be fascinating to take a poll on this List to see
how many are desirous of dumping, say, abductions into the same
waste paper pin that you wish to drop the subject of orbs into.
Believe you me, there would be plenty. Not into abductions Ray?
Then whatever specifics do interest you, I guarantee you
someone, somewhere will think it's a complete load of baloney,
and whats more, will no doubt be able to point to some reputable
"expert" who can convincingly debunk your pet speciality. Don't
be so elistist.

After all, what could be sillier or more misleading than trying
to propogate the theory that from time to time, IBE's spin
around our atmosphere in silly tin cans or modular craft made
out of exotic plastics or metals and occasionally interact with
us on this planet? C'mon, get real.

>It is reasonable to speculate that UFO magazine's editorial
>policy on such, serves ultimately, to the detriment of the
>magazine and goes against the credibility of UFO research in
>general?

It isn't reasonable at all and I don't care for speculation on
this matter. In fact I completely refute the above, absolutely.

Whatever UFO Magazine's policy may or may not be, it seems to
have served it well over the years. If we disrespected our
readers or treated them as idiots, then I don't think the
magazine would have continued for as long as it has. And in so
doing, it has over time, seen off competion here in the UK. What
does that say? Well there are a number of possible
interpretations, but the one I would go with is that it's
editors know what they're doing and are successfully providing a
service to their readership, which that readership seems to
appreciate.

>If such policy is maintained, ultimately, the magazine
>will come to be regarded more and more as the tabloids 'Weekly
>World News', 'Globe', or whatever. In fact, I could introduce
>you to a number of seriously UFO-interested scientists and
>engineers who already feel that way.

And they're welcome to join the List.

Believe you me, I hear exactly the same comments about the
American publication of the same name as ours. And the criticism
always seems to come from the same type of source, the so called
"serious" ufologist. We can never win. In some ways, the
membership of this List is poison to the continuation of popular
publications in the UFO field and it is a bit short sighted.

Because UFO Magazine doesn't always present the subject in the
manner you would like, this is grounds enough - it would seem -
to write it off as tabloid. You make totally subjective
statements about the contents, without the slightest
consideration for what might interest others. It's not about
providing a service soley for you, Ray.

Perhaps it might be pertinent to turn the whole thing round and
look at the positive aspects.

UFO Magazine brings the subject of ufology to an international
market, particularly it's domestic market. Without us, the
vacuum it would create, as well as the loss of an outlet and
noted source of information, and to an extent, leadership and
guidance, would be devastating for British ufology. It would
fragment and become even more chaotic than it already is. It is
a cohesive glue that, at the moment, holds a large number of like
minded people together and provides shelter from the constant
mockery of those who regard the subject as inane or only of
interest to those who "aren't right in the head". Open it's
pages and you are suddenly in a world where, despite what you
think Ray, you are treated with respect because the subject that
fascinates and intrigues you is taken very seriously. Where you
can see that you are not alone and that there are others even
further down the road than you.

I'm bright enough, Ray, to work out that your observations are,
in a way, complimentary. You feel we've let you down. You
wouldn't feel like that if you didn't care for the magazine and
expected "better". But instead of sniping, tell me, here, what
changes you would like to see. I won't criticise - I will treat
what you say seriously and discuss it with the editor and then
get back to you.

>In maintaining the position the magazine has taken concerning
>such things, some persons who are doing serious, objective, and
>scientifically credible UFO research increasingly cringe at
>submitting an even highly popularized article for the magazine.
>How do I know? I have talked to some of them who have considered
>and rejected submission of interesting and, IMO, evidential and
>important manuscripts.

Then those that feel like that are welcome to either sit on what
they've written, so that no one will ever read it, or to submit
their work elsewhere to a web site or small circulation
publication, so that, er, no one will ever read it.

But at least those people will have kept their moral integrity
and feel much better inside for it. There is nothing so crass as
a smug ufologist.

Hear what you're saying, Ray. "My work is too good to be sullied
by publication in that." To quote John Velez - puleese! Some of
you guys have got past the point of being in danger of taking
yourselves too seriously.

>Don't tell us that respect for readership and credibility is
>not the best editorial policy in the long run.

Answered already.

>Poor, indeed, is the publication that thrives off feeding the
>appetites of the wide-eyed, which seems to be the policy your
>message of today is describing.

Then we profoundly disagree on the interpretation of what I've
said.


Stuart Miller








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                 Re: UFO Magazine UK [was: BLURFOs] - Miller

From: Stuart Miller <Stuart.Miller4.nul>
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 17:22:56 -0000
Fwd Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 12:41:44 -0500
Subject: Re: UFO Magazine UK [was: BLURFOs] - Miller


>From: Greg Sandow <greg.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 14:25:14 -0500
>Subject: Re: BLURFOs

>>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 12:19:57 -0500
>>Subject: Re: BLURFOs

>>>From: Stuart Miller <Stuart.Miller4.nul>
>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 19:40:54 -0000
>>>Subject: Re: BLURFOs


Hello Greg,

>I've worked for mass-market publications. No, the editors might
>not like everything that goes in them. But you don't print
>things you know aren't true or credible, just to appeal to
>readers.

And please point to exactly where I said that.

I said I didn't care for them and wasn't into the subject.

>Then your magazine becomes junk, and intelligent people
>don't know whether to believe anything that's in it. Then your
>credibility drops, maybe to zero, and - at least in the mass
>market - your circulation may drop, too. People magazine, for
>instance, is different from the National Enquirer, and because
>of all its advertising, probably makes a lot more money. But if
>what they printed wasn't credible, the advertisers would
>disappear, and the magazine would be in trouble. Result: People
>may print celebrity-oriented gossip, but you can trust what you
>read in it. Not so the Enquirer.

Leaving aside the subject of ufology and UFO Magazine for a
moment - sat on my backside in north west England, I have heard
of the Enquirer. And it's not published here. I have never heard
of People magazine. What does that tell you?

And incidentally, the Enquirer has an interesting history within
ufology that is a little more soundly based then some might
imagine.

>Of course, maybe UFO magazines are different. Maybe intelligent
>people, by and large, don't read them. Maybe the only way to
>succeed with one commercially is to publish sensational crap.
>I'm quite serious about this. Maybe the economic model for UFO
>magazines says you have to publish junk to survive.

Greg. You're either very brave or very insensitive. I used the
word "elitist" in my reply to Ray and that certainly applies
here too.

People that read UFO magazines are not stupid. On the contrary,
they demonstrate an ability to look beyond their immediacy and
acknowledge that there might be more to "all this" than the
arrogant amongst us on this planet can deal with. They have
broader horizons and a greater imagination. They are likely to
be less rigid in their outlook and more accepting, both of
people and of the strange and unusual.

They are not frightened. They are likely to be better balanced
and more rounded individuals. They don't need to be spoon fed a
diet of "sensational crap".

>But then Stuart should say so. I had the wonderful experience,
>recently, of having dinner with the head of one of the top
>commercial book publishing houses in the US. He's a sharp,
>commercial guy, whose company publishes best seller after best
>seller. And yet he told a lot of stories of books he wouldn't
>publish. In one case, he was offered a book about a celebrity, a
>man whose name on the cover of the book would guarantee sales -
>especially since the author had access to formerly confidential
>papers, and also people in the celebrity's life who'd never
>talked about their lives with him before.

>But this publisher judged that the writer wasn't good or
>credible enough. So he passed on what surely would be a best
>seller, simply because he couldn't stand behind the book's
>quality. It really is possible to have integrity, and sitll
>succeed in the mass market.

This is not relevant to the argument. It seems your publisher
friend is still prepared to publish "rubbish" except on this
occasion, the objection was to the writer and his skills and not
the tabloid, gossip mongering, salacious nature of the subject.

All this says is that there is honour amongst thieves after all.


Stuart Miller







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   Feb > Feb 22

                          Re: The Illuminati - Hall

From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 17:22:21 +0000
Fwd Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 12:46:30 -0500
Subject: Re: The Illuminati - Hall


>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 09:04:10 -0800
>Subject: Re: The Illuminati

>>From: Nick Kirkos <atlantis.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 15:11:29 -0500
>>Subject: Re: The Illuminati

>>>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 16:29:21 +0000
>>>Subject: Re: The Illuminati

<snip>

>>I enjoy when this List delves into alternate realities. Mr. Hall
>>may not wish to shake-up his belief systems, that is fine. The
>>realization that corrupt activities by governments seems to have
>>no limit is very unsettling and is worthy of discussion.

>>The Illuminati have been linked to UFOs. Like any and all UFO
>>theories this can not be proven. So in my book this topic is
>>fair game for this List.

>Pardon me for interjecting, but the blanket you're putting on
>UFOs, is rather large - i.e.: "Like any and all UFO theories,
>this can not be proven."

>Many theories have been proven about UFOs - it is not a
>'faith-based' subject.

I erased Nick's message not intending to reply, but will
piggyback here and add this afterthought.

If anything linked to UFOs (no matter how arbitrarily) cannot be
proven and that makes it fair game for this List, that would
tend to make this List a gigantic manure pile. Which of course
it isn't - most of the time. Just occasional droppings of an
equine excrement variety.

Not much of anything can be proven - in the scientific sense -
which often makes anti-science types think that their
imaginations are just as good as science.

Irrationalism lives, hence The Illuminati, or International
Bankers, or the Trilateral Commission in all their imagined evil
and imagined eoistence, in any meaningful sense, continue to
clutter up undisciplined minds.


 - Dick








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               Re: Suppression Of Exopolitics Book - Stanford

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 12:32:20 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 12:52:02 -0500
Subject: Re: Suppression Of Exopolitics Book - Stanford


>From: Max Dean Parsons Snr. <mparsons1.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 12:37:58 -0500
>Subject: Suppression Of Exopolitics Book

>To: Peter Carlson <carlsonp.nul>

>[Non-Subscriber Post]

>-----

>From: Dr Michael Salla <exopolitics.nul>
>Sent: Saturday, February 21, 2004 10:28 AM
>To: exopolitics.nul
>Subject: [exopolitics] Suppression of Exopolitics Book -
>     Record Pulled from Database

>Greetings All, this is to let you know that the information
>about my recently released book, Exopolitics: Political
>Implications of the Extraterrestrial Presence, was 'removed' by
>someone from the large databased used by large retail bookstores
>to place orders from customers. I tried the large book store
>chains, Borders and Barnes & Noble, to see if orders could be
>placed and they had no record of the book and told me they
>couldn't do anything about it, and thought that the book might
>not yet be available.

>This was significant since after the Washington Post article on
>the Eisenhower meeting there would have been hundreds of
>inquiries about the book but people would have been told it's
>unavailable. I got the following message from my publisher,
>Dandelion Books, confirming that someone had pulled the records
>from the database. This was most likely the work of one of the
>US alphabet agencies working with the ET management teams who
>don't want the book to become widely circulated due to the
>information in it.

<snip>

>Ike Snd the Alien Ambassadors

>The Whole Tooth About the President's Extraterrestrial Encounter

>By Peter Carlson
>Washington Post Staff Writer

>Thursday, February 19, 2004; Page C01

>Fifty years ago tomorrow - on Feb. 20, 1954 - President Dwight
>Eisenhower interrupted his vacation in Palm Springs, Calif., to
>make a secret nocturnal trip to a nearby Air Force base to meet
>two extraterrestrial aliens.

>[more]

>http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A53203-2004Feb18.html

>http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A53203-2004Feb18?language=printer

>c .2004 The Washington Post Company

While admitting strong skepticism about the claim that on
February 20, 1954, Dwight David Eisenhower met with aliens, I
must state that I am somewhat skeptical of Eisenhower Library
archivist Herb Pankratz's statement quoted in the Washington
Post article, which was reported as follows:

"It's interesting how these stories have changed," Pankratz
noted in an e-mail. "Initially, the accounts claimed the
President made a secret trip to Edwards Air Force Base to view
the remains of aliens who had crashed at Roswell, N.M., in 1947.
Later stories then claimed he had actually visited with live
aliens."

Why am I a bit skeptical? In 1957 I was visiting a 'well-placed'
friend in Palm Springs who said she had a very highly placed
U.S. Air Force source (an officer of very high rank, who she
named, but whose name I do not recall after 47 years, in part
because I didn't attach any great importance to a story that
would be difficult, if not impossible, to verify) who assured
her in no uncertain terms that President Eisenhower had met with
some kind of extra-terrestrials in February, 1954, while
visiting the area.

Anyhow, the story - true or false - already involved aliens as
of 1957, and there was no mention of the President's having gone
there to merely view remains of aliens. One might wonder why a
President should make a trip to view alien bodies over six years
after the alleged crash in New Mexico?

Furthermore, if Sala's information that his book had disappeared
from the books-available list is accurate, then one really might
have cause to wonder if there has been a hired hacker at work.
If so, then in my mind it may add some possible credence to the
story that Eisenhower was in the Palm Springs area on a highly
secret and truly 'far-out' mission, instead of for a mere
vacation complicated by emergency dental work.

And yes, I recall the erroneous story off the Associated Press
line that Eisenhower (a man for whom I had great respect) had
died on the night of February 20, 1954, but I have never heard
any convincing explanation of how that happened. Oh, I could
dream up a fictional scenario for how the story happened that
would fit right in to the meeting-with-aliens claim; but good
golly, Miss Molly, we already have too much fiction and
unfounded rumor in this field.


Ray Stanford

"You know my method. It is founded upon the observance of
trifles." -
Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery







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   Feb > Feb 22

                           Re: BLURFOs - Bugliaro

From: Michele Bugliaro <michelebugliaro.nul>
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 18:49:13 +0100
Fwd Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 12:59:05 -0500
Subject: Re: BLURFOs - Bugliaro


>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 01:39:35 -0800
>Subject: Re: BLURFOs

>>From: Michele Bugliaro <michelebugliaro.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 17:50:02 +0100
>>Subject: Re: BLURFOs

>>>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 02:27:14 -0800
>>>Subject: Re: BLURFOs

><snip>

>>Well, it's a real problem. I've seen a lot of these examples on
>>the web, from all sort of "paranormal researchers" who spot orbs
>>all over the place. I'm having a laugh here:

>>http://www.orbsbybeans.com/photogallery.html :-)

>>Question: do you think it's possible to explain rods in a
>>similar way?

>>Best wishes from far Switzerland. I hope my English is good
>>enough.

Hello Larry,

>Your English is just fine! I should speak Helvetian as well.

Thanks. Only thing is, Helvetian doesn't exist: we speak
Italian, French and German, as I do.

>Rods are as much of a problem as we make of it.

>I have the distinct impression that some Rods Promoters do not
>want this matter solved!

>Maybe they have more to gain, a following perhaps, by
>maintaining the mystery and avoiding any solution.

Nice shot!

>There was one spot mentioned where 'rods' were imaged all the
>time. I suggested that the investigators put down their cameras
>and pick up a butterfly net. There was little if any response. I
>take it this idea was somewhat un-welcome.

I agree. I've the impression it happens sometimes in ufology and
in crop circles too, when a "researcher" seems more interested
in selling photographs or videos than lead a serious
investigation. As soon as you want serious evidence... poof!


................................
Michele Bugliaro, Designer SUP, Red. Informiamo.com
<http://www.ufopsi.com>
<http://pub169.ezboard.com/bufopsiforum>
................................

"We all live with the objective of being happy; our lives are
all different and yet the same." (Anne Frank)








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   Feb > Feb 22

                        Re: The Illuminati - Kimball

From: Paul Kimball <Kimballwood.nul>
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 12:55:00 EST
Fwd Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 13:01:01 -0500
Subject: Re: The Illuminati - Kimball


>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 09:04:10 -0800
>Subject: Re: The Illuminati

>>From: Nick Kirkos <atlantis.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 15:11:29 -0500
>>Subject: Re: The Illuminati

>>>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 16:29:21 +0000
>>>Subject: Re: The Illuminati

><snip>

>>>And I still insist to you Vast Conspiracy theorists, name your
>>>"evil" parties. Be specific. Cite factual evidence (not the
>>>mutterings without evidence of various web sites).

<snip>

>>I enjoy when this List delves into alternate realities. Mr. Hall
>>may not wish to shake-up his belief systems, that is fine. The
>>realization that corrupt activities by governments seems to have
>>no limit is very unsettling and is worthy of discussion.

>>The Illuminati have been linked to UFOs. Like any and all UFO
>>theories this can not be proven. So in my book this topic is
>>fair game for this List.

<snip>

>Pardon me for interjecting, but the blanket you're putting on
>UFOs, is rather large - i.e.: "Like any and all UFO theories,
>this can not be proven."

>Many theories have been proven about UFOs - it is not a
>'faith-based' subject.

As Dick would no doubt point out, many "facts" have been proven
about the UFO subject. I'm convinced by those facts that at
least some them relate to a government cover-up. What that
cover-up is covering up, or who is involved (is it a vast
conspiracy, a small conspiracy or just good old government
stupidity) remains open to reasoned and informed theorising,
about which reasonable and informed people can disagree.

I am certain beyond a reasonable doubt, however, that neither
the Illuminati, nor the Federal Reserve, the Council on Foreign
Relations, the Warren Commission, the Freemasons, or the
Bildibergers, are part of "it".

Barring real evidence to the contrary, such as the kind which
exists for the Air Force vis-a-vis UFOs, it's time to move on.


Best regards,

Paul Kimball
www.redstarfilm.com







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   Feb > Feb 23

                Re: Suppression Of Exopolitics Book - Fleming

From: Lan Fleming <lfleming5.nul>
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 12:50:29 -0600
Fwd Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 12:09:26 -0500
Subject: Re: Suppression Of Exopolitics Book - Fleming


>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 12:32:20 -0500
>Subject: Re: Suppression Of Exopolitics Book - Stanford

<snip>

>While admitting strong skepticism about the claim that on
>February 20, 1954, Dwight David Eisenhower met with aliens, I
>must state that I am somewhat skeptical of Eisenhower Library
>archivist Herb Pankratz's statement quoted in the Washington
>Post article, which was reported as follows:

>"It's interesting how these stories have changed," Pankratz
>noted in an e-mail. "Initially, the accounts claimed the
>President made a secret trip to Edwards Air Force Base to view
>the remains of aliens who had crashed at Roswell, N.M., in 1947.
>Later stories then claimed he had actually visited with live
>aliens."

>Why am I a bit skeptical? In 1957 I was visiting a 'well-placed'
>friend in Palm Springs who said she had a very highly placed
>U.S. Air Force source (an officer of very high rank, who she
>named, but whose name I do not recall after 47 years, in part
>because I didn't attach any great importance to a story that
>would be difficult, if not impossible, to verify) who assured
>her in no uncertain terms that President Eisenhower had met with
>some kind of extra-terrestrials in February, 1954, while
>visiting the area.

>Anyhow, the story - true or false - already involved aliens as
>of 1957, and there was no mention of the President's having gone
>there to merely view remains of aliens. One might wonder why a
>President should make a trip to view alien bodies over six years
>after the alleged crash in New Mexico?

>Furthermore, if Sala's information that his book had disappeared
>from the books-available list is accurate, then one really might
>have cause to wonder if there has been a hired hacker at work.
>If so, then in my mind it may add some possible credence to the
>story that Eisenhower was in the Palm Springs area on a highly
>secret and truly 'far-out' mission, instead of for a mere
>vacation complicated by emergency dental work.

Allegations like Eisenhower's meeting with extraterrestrials are
so difficult to verify that I usually don't pay very much
attention to them. But it was hard for me not to pay attention
after watching an MSNBC "news" show spend almost 10 minutes
ridiculing the Eisenhower story a few nights ago. (I can't
remember the shows name, but it was the one right after
"Hardball").

It went way beyond the usual 30 seconds of snickering and
smirking that the talking heads typically devote to UFO stories.
They made quite a production out of it. They showed lots of
silly pictures of movie aliens and so forth.

After interviewing the Washington Post reporter, they had on
some unfunny comedian who calls himself "Moe Rocca" to drag it
out a while longer.

I came away half-convinced that somebody with influence over the
news media was really intent on quashing this story for good.
That someone would go to the trouble of hacking a publishers'
database kind of reinforces that impression.







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   Feb > Feb 23

                       Re: The Beveridge UFO - DeMary

From: Tom DeMary <t.demary.nul>
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 13:05:23 -0600 (GMT-06:00)
Fwd Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 12:13:53 -0500
Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO - DeMary


>From: Dan Bright <ufo.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 20:26:19 -0000
>Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO - Bright

>>From: Tom DeMary <t.demary.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 12:55:23 -0600
>>Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO

>>It is not clear to me that the time/sun angle has been nailed
>>down. Much of the discussion was based on the camera time of
>>14:52 pm which gives an altitude of about 55 degrees (Azimuth
>>287 degrees), as used in some of the posts. However, the
>>shadows in the photos are quite short, suggesting that the
>>Sun is more overhead.

>Hello Tom,

Hi Dan,

>The EXIF data on the camera indicated 14:52. EXIF data is
>notoriously unreliable, and of course the camera clock may not
>have been set correctly. Therefore, in keeping with the
>photographer's recollection that he took the image "about 2pm",
>I've been working on the assumption that the camera clock was
>one hour fast, making the actual time 13:52 local.

That would be 13:52 Australian Eastern Daylight Time, I presume.

>>The photographer said that the time was about 2 pm. Since the
>>location was Eastern Australia in the summer, he surely meant
>>2 pm Australian Eastern Daylight Time. Yes? No?

>Ideally someone would be able to check with the photographer
>on this point, but I would assume that he was indicating local
>time (GMT+11 hours, including DST)

I agree that GMT+11 = AEDT.

>>At 2 pm AEDT, the Sun was at 73 degrees altitude and 335
>>degrees azimuth. At 14:52 AEDT the Sun was at 66 degrees
>>altitude and 306 degrees azimuth.

>Where did you get those figures Tom? I've been using the
>following figures [http://aa.usno.navy.mil/]

>13:52: Sun azimuth: 287.6=B0, Sun altitude: 55.1=B0
>14:52: Sun azimuth: 275.6=B0, Sun altitude: 43.4=B0

I used Guide 8, a commercial, high precision, astronomical
calculator.

I tested the USNO site, and, I claim, it agrees with my previous
calculations. I used form B, 15 Jan 2004, S 37 31, E 145 07,
East of Greenwich, 11 hours. I got:

Time        Alt         Az
13:00       72.6        22.8
13:10       73.3        15.2
13:20       73.6         7.1
13:30       73.7       358.8
13:40       73.6       350.6
13:50       73.1       342.6
14:00       72.4       335.1
14:10       71.4       328.3
14:20       70.3       322.1
14:30       69.0       316.5
14:40       67.6       311.5
14:50       66.0       307.1
15:00       64.4       303.1
15:10       62.7       299.5
15:20       61.0       296.2
15:30       59.2       293.3
15:40       57.3       290.5
15:50       55.5       288.0

which differ by 2 hours from your numbers, and are in agreement
with my numbers. "Local noon" was about 13:30, as I claimed, so
whether we believe the photographer or the camera about the
time, the sun was high in the sky, as indicated by the shadows
in the image. 45 or 55 degrees altitude for the Sun just does
not make sense with the shadows.

I have no idea why your numbers differ by 2 hours from the ones
I got, unless perhaps you confused 3:52 & 13:52.


Tom DeMary








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                         Re: The Illuminati - Warren

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 11:26:03 -0800
Fwd Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 12:16:13 -0500
Subject: Re: The Illuminati - Warren


>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 17:22:21 +0000
>Subject: Re: The Illuminati

>>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 09:04:10 -0800
>>Subject: Re: The Illuminati

>>>From: Nick Kirkos <atlantis.nul>
>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 15:11:29 -0500
>>>Subject: Re: The Illuminati

<snip>

>I erased Nick's message not intending to reply, but will
>piggyback here and add this afterthought.

>If anything linked to UFOs (no matter how arbitrarily) cannot be
>proven and that makes it fair game for this List, that would
>tend to make this List a gigantic manure pile. Which of course
>it isn't - most of the time. Just occasional droppings of an
>equine excrement variety.

>Not much of anything can be proven - in the scientific sense -
>which often makes anti-science types think that their
>imaginations are just as good as science.

>Irrationalism lives, hence The Illuminati, or International
>Bankers, or the Trilateral Commission in all their imagined evil
>and imagined eoistence, in any meaningful sense, continue to
>clutter up undisciplined minds.

> - Dick

Dick, Nick,

In regards to the "Illuminati" or some secret organization etc.,
I will remain "open-minded." We've learned that not so secret
organizations e.g., the Air Force, have had very "secret
agendas" in regards to UFOs (to name only one); one might argue
that various organizations, or at least "sub-organizations have
been created solely because of the presence of UFOs.

My point, however; is that there indeed is much that can be said
about UFO's from a Scientific point of view based on empirical
observations, and or investigation of UFO reports. For example:

* Some UFOs occupy a position in space.

* Some UFOs advance as time passes.

* Some UFOs interact with the environment e.g., thermal effects
  etc.

* Some UFOs emit light.

* Some UFOs produce turbulence.

* Some UFO's leave behind physical evidence that can be
measured, e.g., indentations, burn marks etc.

* Some UFOs that are photographed offer data that can be
measured, speed, size, etc.

* Some UFOs affect electronic and magnetic systems

* Some UFOs have emitted debris and or "slag" which of course
can be analyzed scientifically.

* Some UFOs affect people physically.

The list goes on, but you get the gist of it; since many of the
afore mentioned attributes are recurring, henceforth Scientific
theory, hypothesis can be derived.

Obviously we all want better data, but I think those of us that
have taken a "pro UFO," or I should say "pro ETH stance" argue
that "much can be learned" from the data available if one only
looks at it. (Speaking of course to Mainstream Science).


Regards,

Frank







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                         Bizarre Argentine Encounter

From: Albert Rosales <Garuda79.nul>
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 14:55:52 EST
Fwd Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 12:20:16 -0500
Subject: Bizarre Argentine Encounter


Location. Santa Teresita, Saenz Peata, Chaco, Argentina

Date: February 21 2004  Time: late night

26-year old Liliana Nievas was sitting in her patio with her
boyfriend when suddenly several cascotazos'- a sort of dried
fruit peel - fell on the two apparently coming from an area
behind the patio. Liliana went alone to investigate when she
came upon a short dark 'man', which began to pummel her and
attempted to drag her away.

She could only describe the entity as short, dark and shadowy,
which covered her mouth and began to drag her on the ground.
Hearing her screams, several neighbors, family members, and her
boyfriend ran to find the woman lying on the ground suffering
facial injuries.

She kept screaming that "he is trying to drag me away" as the
astounded group watched as a mysterious force indeed seemed to
pull her away, however they did not see anybody.

Finally with the help of her boyfriend and others they managed
to hold Liliana down and the force seemed to release her. She
was taken to a local hospital suffering from grievous injuries.
Others in the area reported being pelted by bricks and another
witness reported seeing a shadowy entity stealing fruit from his
backyard.



HC addendum

Source: Planeta UFO Groups, quoting 'Norte Edicion Digital'

Sunday February 22 2004, Chaco, Argentina  Type: E


This incident sort of reminds me of the infamous incident in
Manila Phillipines back in 1951







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               Commotion Over Aguara Guazu Argentina Sighting

From: Scott Corrales <lornis1.nul>
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 15:14:21 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 12:26:13 -0500
Subject: Commotion Over Aguara Guazu Argentina Sighting


Dear Readers,

Those who have been following INEXPLICATA for a few years now
will recall the 2001 events involving the belief in the
supernatural entity "lobizon" that forms part of Argentinean,
Uruguayan and southern Brazilian folklore. In this case, the
unknown creature was positively identified as an Aguara Guazu,
an odd, deer-legged canid. But the "lobizon" belief remains
strong..

SC

SOURCE: El Norte-Edicion Digital
DATE: 22 February 2004

ARGENTINA: Commotion in Saenz Pena Over an Aguara Guazu Sighting


SAENZ PENA: ALL BELIEVED IT WAS A LOBIZON, BUT IT WAS ONLY AN
AGUARA GUAZU

"I saw it, I saw it...it was huge. I don't believe in such
things, but others at the "10" service station also saw it. It
was a lobizon," said Francisco, a young man who yesterday
evening was driving along Calle Belgrano in his small Fiat
Spazio when suddenly "a dog the size of a calf crossed my path
and uttered a very ugly cry. I pulled over because I was really
scared," he told a radio station.

The appearance of an animal similar to a large dog in the
downtown area caused a stir in this city and it wasn't long
before word spread - mainly over the phone - that "the Lobizon is
loose in Saenz Pena", according to the countless eyewitness
stories collected by radio stations contacted by frightened
locals, who claim having seen and heard a strange beast they
didn't steatite to associate with the Lobizon. "Call Professor
Lopez and ask for his opinion, because it's the same creature
that appeared in Concepcion del Bermejo," suggested an AM radio
listener.

The alleged Lobizon appeared suddenly - who knows how - in the
downtown area. Witnesses claim seeing it around the Club Accion
(15th street, between 16th and 18th) and later along 11th street
heading eastward, zig-zagging in the vicinity of a service
station.

"I was on my motorbike, about to fuel up, when I saw that the
service station employee got scared and ran into the office, but
I had no idea what was going on. Then I stopped the bike and
heard a howl similar to that of a human, something chilling, but
saw nothing until a boy told me that the Lobizon was afoot. I
tried to start the motorbike but it wouldn't turn over...I
almost fainted," said Alejandro Soto to an FM radio station. He
works as a security guard and was heading back to his home in
Barrio Puerta del Sol.

A well-known radio journalist from Barrio Santa Teresita
acknowledged that the howling of local dogs "didn't let me
sleep.Then I went outside and heard growls that gave me goose-
flesh," he said.

Other accounts were also heard: "Why shouldn't we be afraid,
when a huge dog the size of a calf, with big ears and howling
like a human [appears]?" asked Martin Caballero, who was heading
home along 11th street on his bicycle, returning from a friend's
house.

"This was a hairy, long eared critter that ran very fast - I saw
it! It screamed like someone was beheading it," explained Ramon
Arroyo, who had just finished his work shift at that early hour
of the morning.

Jorge Garc=EDa, the director of the city's zoo, confirmed that the
alleged Lobizon was a "poor harmless aguara guazu" that was
captured after a long chase that ended at a garage on 17th
street. The reason for its appearance downtown is a result of
the prolonged drought that afflicts the region, explained Garcia
to LT16 Radio Saenz Pena. Add to this the modification of its
natural habitat, the excessive expansion of the agricultural
area and the permanent modification and fragmentation of natural
environments, "and the animal goes out in search of a more
suitable habitat, disorientedly so, sometimes in a suburban and
urban area finding an excess population of dogs, which frighten
it. With every step it hears more barks, more klaxons and it
begins a frightened race."

This is the second time that an Aguara Guazu appears in the
business district. The first was on 1st and 28th streets. "On
that occasion, it ran onto the premises of a shop and we
captured it without the media ever hearing about it, but don't
forget that in Napenay, when one of these creature got into a
ranch house when Boca was playing the final game of the America
Liberators Cup, national television showed up to film the
alleged Lobizon and all that foolishness," remarked the zoo
director.

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

Translation (C) 2004 Scott Corrales
Institute of Hispanic Ufology
Special thanks to Gloria Coluchi







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   Feb > Feb 23

                        Re: Off-Season UFOs - Hebert

From: Amy Hebert <vanguard.nul>
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 14:18:33 -0600
Fwd Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 12:27:51 -0500
Subject: Re: Off-Season UFOs - Hebert


>From: Nick Pope <nick.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 18:56:03 -0000
>Subject: Re: Off-Season UFOs

>>From: Amy Hebert <vanguard.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 17:19:27 -0600
>>Subject: Re: Off-Season UFOs

Hi, Nick:

Sorry for the late reply to this. I only have time to catch up
on weekends.

<snip>

>>I'm wondering how the information yielded from your study could be
>>turned around and used to disguise tests of secret military projects
>>and/or psychological responses to unknown/novel stimuli.

>This is not a question on which it would be appropriate for me
>to comment, beyond a general observation that prototype aircraft
>or UAVs are generally test flown in clearly defined areas set
>aside for this purpose. I can't say any more than this, but was
>not in any case briefed on any such projects, because I had no
>'need to know'. I'm afraid I've snipped out most of the rest of
>your post, as the questions followed from your point above. I
>apologise.

No, problem, Nick.

<snip>

>>I was wondering...were you asked by your superiors to do this study or
>>was it just for your own personal information? Did you share the
>>results of your study with the MOD, file it - what happened to the
>>study?

>I undertook this project on my own initiative, but it was wholly
>consistent with my brief. We received several hundred reports of
>UFO sightings each year, and my research into the geographical
>spread of sightings complemented my investigative work. This is
>something I did around ten years ago now, so I can't be sure of
>the details, but I probably briefed my line manager and side
>copied the maps to colleagues in the Directorate of Air Defence
>and the Defence Intelligence Staff. All this work was
>unclassified, and in line with an initiative on Open Government
>I released the maps to various UFO organisations and
>researchers, both proactively and on demand. I think they've
>been published in various books and magazines, and may be on the
>internet somewhere. Perhaps some of the UK ufologists to whom I
>released this material can help on this?

Thank you, Nick. I will find the information I need.


A. Hebert







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   Feb > Feb 23

                         Re: The Illuminati - Novak

From: John Novak <john.nul>
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 12:25:34 -0800
Fwd Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 13:07:44 -0500
Subject: Re: The Illuminati - Novak


>From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 11:35:01 EST
>Subject: The Illuminati

<snip>

>So my next question is for more data from reliable sources about
>this group and groups like it.

>Any suggestions, i.e. books, tapes, websites?


You can go to my website and download all court documents from
an ongoing class action lawsuit against the Federal Reserve.

NO. _CV 03 291-KI_

MARCEL RUDOLF REMENAR, & creditor v. FEDERAL RESERVE
BANK OF SAN FRANCISCO OREGON BRANCH

I set up a page with the full details and all court documents here:

http://www.supremalex.org/lawsuit/

The zip file containing all the court documents is here:

http://www.supremalex.org/lawsuit/files/allfiles.zip

Files are scanned and virus free.

You wanteded documentation and proof of Illuminati. Here it is.

Heading to the Supreme Courts...

This isn't evidence that just sits on a website and gets sent
over Lists.

This is _evidence_ now submitted in court.

The Wizard of Oz has been exposed.

Welcome to the New World. Changes without guns and violence can
still be acheived. Pens and keyboards are mightier than swords
and ultimately much more effective for lasting change.


-John Novak

www.supremalex.org







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   Feb > Feb 23

              Argentine Woman Almost Battered To Death By 'Imp'

From: Scott Corrales <lornis1.nul>
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 15:47:57 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 13:10:57 -0500
Subject: Argentine Woman Almost Battered To Death By 'Imp'



INEXPLICATA
The Journal of Hispanic Ufology
February 22, 2004

Source: El Norte Digital
Date: February 22, 2004

ARGENTINA: WOMAN NEARLY BATTERED TO DEATH BY "IMP"

SAENZ PE=D1A (Agencia). While the generalized commotion over the
appearance of an Aguara Guaz=FA was still fresh in the public's
mind, after relating it to the legendary "Lobizon", a woman and
neighbors from Barrio Santa Teresita reported that a strange
being "short and black, like a dwarf" had appeared. It was
linked to the legendary "Pombero", but the possibility that it
could be a product of black magic was not dismissed out of hand,
according to the protagonists of this case.

The only person who managed to see this alleged "Pombero" is
Liliana Nieves, 26, who was allegedly assaulted by the entity.
She described it as small man, completely black, that "battered
her and wanted to drag her away". Until yesterday, this woman
was confined in the mental ward of the 4 de Junio Hospital.

The story gains credibility because over 10 eyewtinesses agree
on the events which commenced on Tuesday night, repeated on
Thursday and were expected to reocurr on Saturday night. And
they are all the more interesting because they occured in a
neighborhood considered tranquil by its residents.

According ot numerous statements collected by NORTE, the
beginning of the story must be traced to last Tuesday, when a
shower of stones fell over the home located at 31 and 0000
street in Santa Teresita. No one could see who was throwing
them. "She," --meaning Liliana Nieves -- "saw something ripping
out mandarin and tomato plants in the back yard. She said a
person ran out. This was on Tuesday. Her husband and another man
who was with her gave chase," said Norma Cordoba, Liliana's
sister in law, who lives on the same property as the battered
woman.

"While the two of us were alone, a brick hit the roof. She told
me come here, there's another one, and a shadow shot out toward
the back of the property. It kept throwing stones at the roof
until 4 in the morning, when I had a breakdown. They took me to
the hospital because I broke down."

Nothing happened on Wednesday evening. Just when the family
started to think Tuesday's ordeal was just a prank,  the events
repeated on Thursday night, but with more serious consequences.

"Liliana and her husband were sitting the patio and I was in
bed. Stones were hitting the roof again, and when I went out,
all of my neighbors were up, because they'd heard the ruckus.
The stones kept falling on my house and neighboring houses
alike. All the lights were on, all of the people were in the
back yard, and the stones kep falling."

The neighbors' houses are joined by a common patio filled with
trees whose branches reach teh ground. The alleged attack took
place in back of the dwellings, and residents claim that the
shower of stones came from the same area, but no assailant could
be seen. "She [Liliana] went back to see who was throwing the
stones. And she wouldn't come back. And we called out to her,
until another man found her spread on the ground with a blow to
her face, part of her eye and mouth. It's all broken [sic]."

"She says that it was a man this tall," the woman indicates the
height of her waistline, "who covered her mouth, dragged her to
the bushes and beat her. He let her go when he heard neighbors
calling her name, when they searched for her," said the battered
woman's sister in law.

"Later, when they brought her in, she fell to the floor. She
asked her brother and the neighbors to remove what ever was
grabbing on to her feet. They would stand her up and she would
fall down as if her feet were being pulled out from under her.
No one could see anything, and they rained machete-blows around
her. She was desperate saying that someone was there."

The woman remained in this frenzied state until the police
arrived to take her to the hospital where she remains in the
Psychiatric Ward.

"She said that [it] would come back every so often, saying it
wanted to take her away," according to Mario Obregon, the young
woman's brother. "I would stand in front of her and would try to
defend her as best I could, but I couldn't see "it", and she
would see it even more. Then a neighbor came with a crucifix to
pray, and the thing came back even more. Liliana said it would
grab her even more fiercely."

"This was the scene that impressed neighbors the most, because
it seemed that a strange and invisible force was pushing the
woman and tried to drag her away. She said it was a little man,
all black, that she could see and who looked like an imp. We
took her outside, because it said that it wanted to take her
away and beat her."

Midday yesterday, deacon Dionisio Castagna of the San Jos=E9
Parish visited the locals, spoke to them and prayed with them,
agreeing to bless their homes. The clergyman didn't question
whether the event was true or not, but asked them to strengthen
their faith in God and reaffirm family ties.

The police reported yesterday that around 02:00 on Friday--
curiously, at the same time that the Aguara Guazu appeared in
the downtown streets -- they received a report from neighbors
claiming that a woman had been the victim of a brick attack.
Police personnel reported there and "witnessed brick shards at
the site".

An hour later, the police returned to the site and underook an
operation led by deputy sheriff Aldo Fernandez, who found an
unusually large number of peolpe who claimed that the woman in
question "was lifted and thrown against the wall, but we could
not see who was throwing her. She was bruised and had to be
hospitalized."

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

Translation (C) 2004 Scott Corrales IHU
Special thanks to Gloria Coluchi







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   Feb > Feb 23

                         Re: The Illuminati - White

From: Eleanor White <eleanor.nul>
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 15:55:22 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 13:12:44 -0500
Subject: Re: The Illuminati - White


>From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 09:38:59 EST
>Subject: Re: The Illuminati

<snip>

>That was a suprise! I think our entire banking system
>in the U.S. is bass-ackwards and man oh man is there some dirt
>to be dug up.

So did John F. Kennedy. He issued an order to print $4 billion
in "U.S. Notes" as opposed to Federal Reserve Notes. Some say
that's what got him killed.

The problem with the Federal Reserve system, so say many
researchers, is that it is a _private_ entity, owned by private
bankers, which _lends_ money to the U.S. Government. This gives
them _stranglehold_ power over the visible government. The Fed
collects _interest_ which is an unnecessary expense, so say the
researchers I hear regularly on the shortwave news and talk
shows.

This situation of private bankers lending to visible
governments, thus gaining barely visible control, is replicated
all over the world and has been for a long time.

The tie-in to UFO secrecy is that you have wealthy and powerful
people who control the visible governments, so pleading or
demanding the full release of UFO information isn't going to
happen if the private bankers decide it won't.

My anti-mind control group has the same problem - hidden agendas
which so far have denied us relief from the harassment and
justice (and are very likely responsible for the harassment to
begin with.)

I don't have either the first hand knowledge or the time to
debate this, I'm just passing on what I hear all day every day
from the shortwave shows.


Eleanor White







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                    MJ-12 Documentary - Canadian Air Date

From: Paul Kimball <Kimballwood.nul>
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 18:20:57 EST
Fwd Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 13:14:39 -0500
Subject: MJ-12 Documentary - Canadian Air Date


All:

Space: The Imagination Station (Canada) has set April 28 as the
premiere date for the documentary "Do You Believe in Majic?"
about the original MJ-12 papers (EBD, TF memo, CT memo).

The film features Stan Friedman, Karl Pflock, Nick Redfern,
Bruce Maccabee, Rich Dolan and others, and examines the case for
and against the authenticity of these controversial documents in
what I hope people will find as a serious and balanced manner.

As for entertainment value, any film where Stan and Karl get to
have a go at each other is entertaining in my books!

If you have any questions about the film, feel free to drop me a
line.


Best regards,

Paul Kimball
www.redstarfilm.com







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   Feb > Feb 23

                             Re: BLURFOs - Hatch

From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 15:24:02 -0800
Fwd Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 13:16:07 -0500
Subject: Re: BLURFOs - Hatch


>From: Michele Bugliaro <michelebugliaro.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 18:49:13 +0100
>Subject: Re: BLURFOs

>>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 01:39:35 -0800
>>Subject: Re: BLURFOs

<snip>


>>Your English is just fine! I should speak Helvetian as well.

>Thanks. Only thing is, Helvetian doesn't exist: we speak
>Italian, French and German, as I do.


Hello Michele:

I was only kidding about Helvetian.

I saw the word "Helvetia" on a Swiss Franc coin for the first
time in 1965. That seemed like a nice root-word for all things
Swiss. Now I will make a Helvetian cheese sandwich, You know,
that tasty cheese with the holes in it.


Best wishes

- Larry







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   Feb > Feb 23

                         Re: Magazine UK - Stanford

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 20:00:40 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 13:20:47 -0500
Subject: Re: Magazine UK - Stanford


>From: Stuart Miller <Stuart.Miller4.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 16:52:49 -0000
>Subject: UFO Magazine UK

>>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 12:19:57 -0500
>>Subject: Re: BLURFOs

<snip>

>>I understand what you're saying, but no not at all agree with
>>such 'taking' of an uninformed public with photographic
>>artifacts (i.e., 'orbs', as clearly demythologized by Neff and
>>others before him) presented in a context by which they may be
>>misunderstood as images of truly anomalous objects or phenomena.

>Well, it would be fascinating to take a poll on this List to see
>how many are desirous of dumping, say, abductions into the same
>waste paper pin that you wish to drop the subject of orbs into.
>Believe you me, there would be plenty. Not into abductions Ray?

I didn't include abductions in my comments about irresponsible
coverage by UFO Magazine (UK, yet I really might have included
the US magazine.). If fact,I am personally confident that some
(and, perhaps many) abductions occur. I have seen enough
evidence to become convinced that abduction does happen. Of
course, I do not believe in a lot of those publicly reported,
but suspect that there are (even among abductees) few who
believe all claims of abduction. I agree with Betty Hill that
there are many 'bangwaggoners' whose imaginations are bigger
than their regard for objective reality, but also consider that
she may be too narrow in her view on what might constitute a
valid case.

>Then whatever specifics do interest you, I guarantee you
>someone, somewhere will think it's a complete load of baloney,
>and whats more, will no doubt be able to point to some reputable
>"expert" who can convincingly debunk your pet speciality. Don't
>be so elistist.

Of course, there are even a few nay sayers who believe the world
is not approximately spherical but is flat, but that should not
bother those who know the shape of our planet. Debunkers do not
concern me because they are not objective skeptics. I favor
rational skepticism over wide-eyed fools, be it to read (their
writings) or to have as company for good conversation.

>After all, what could be sillier or more misleading than trying
>to propogate the theory that from time to time, IBE's spin
>around our atmosphere in silly tin cans or modular craft made
>out of exotic plastics or metals and occasionally interact with
>us on this planet? C'mon, get real.

I am a lot more realistic, if that's what you mean, than your
magazine has ever been. Since about 1974, I have repeatedly gone
out with recording gravimeter, recording magnetometer,
spectrographic camera, movie film cameras, and high-resolution
35 mm SLR cameras (1,000 mm lens) and gotten the kind of
evidence that is very meaningful to physicists and aerospace
engineers. If that's not being real about UFOs, please set me
straight. It's you and your magazine who should get real with
the UFO-intrigued public upon which the magazine thrives.

Speaking of UK phenomenologists whose work UFO Magazine has
promoted, I wouldn't brag if I were you. Concerning one whose
work the magazine has championed, Colin Andrews.: During the
heyday of crop circles (before the fakers got them so complex,
embroidered, and convoluted as to be credible only to the highly
credulous), I telephoned Colin and left a message on his
telephone offering to bring our project's whole array of cameras
and instruments like the recording gravimeter and recording
magnetometers and cameras over there to see what might be
monitored. I said I might, in fact, just lone him instruments,
shipping them to him, should that be of interest.

Do you think Colin responded? Of course not, he preferred to
have dowsers out in the fields with him! LMAO!

Concerning crop patterns, your magazine acts even worse, if
that's possible. In your Volume 24, number 1, page 27,
describing two highly dubious crop 'messages', as (and I quote):
"The most significant event in the UFO saga happened two years
ago. It was the first direct communication we've received from
space beings. And it came in answer to a message sent from Earth
into space 27 years earlier."

"Get real", you egotistically declare! It is clearly your
magazine's editorial policy that needs to get real! There is not
one stitch of evidence that those two crop 'messages' were
created (and rather crudely, at that) by anyone other that fly-
by-night terrestrials. The magazine staff should be ashamed of
publishing such an intellectually dishonest statement.

>>It is reasonable to speculate that UFO magazine's editorial
>>policy on such, serves ultimately, to the detriment of the
>>magazine and goes against the credibility of UFO research in
>>general?

>It isn't reasonable at all and I don't care for speculation on

>Whatever UFO Magazine's policy may or may not be, it seems to
>have served it well over the years.

It may have served the financial interests of its publisher over
recent years (How else could one find it on local newsstands in
the USA?), but, IMO, that is a far cry from serving the best
interests of the public or even of its own narrow-band
readership. Calling those two silly little crop 'messages' an
alien communication in answer to a message carried into space
years before is just one small example of intellectual
dishonesty that does not serve the interests of anyone except
(and only in the short run) the publisher.

>If we disrespected our
>readers or treated them as idiots, then I don't think the
>magazine would have continued for as long as it has. And in so
>doing, it has over time, seen off competion here in the UK. What
>does that say? Well there are a number of possible
>interpretations, but the one I would go with is that it's
>editors know what they're doing and are successfully providing a
>service to their readership, which that readership seems to
>appreciate.

I'm all too sure its editors know exactly what they are doing to
keep the family enterprise going. That never was my point. But
poor, indeed, are those who prostitute so potentially profound a
subject by making irresponsible statements such as mentioned
above.

>>If such policy is maintained, ultimately, the magazine
>>will come to be regarded more and more as the tabloids 'Weekly
>>World News', 'Globe', or whatever. In fact, I could introduce
>>you to a number of seriously UFO-interested scientists and
>>engineers who already feel that way.

>And they're welcome to join the List.

With your magazine's track record, don't hold your breath
expecting them.

>It's not about providing a service soley for you, Ray.

I have no need of your magazine for insight into UFOs, so I
never look to it for that 'service' (to use your word)!
Furthermore, it seldom provides anything resembling real
insight. I read it mainly to learn who is taking whom 'for a
ride' of gullibility and imagination. Some of your writers seem
to be taking themselves for a ride. You know exactly what I was
saying, so quit playing games and twisting words, Stuart. I was
clearly discussing the duty to serve the interest of the public
with objective analysis rather than the wide-eyed 'Geewhizzing',
which is, IMO, the flaky fare your magazine sometimes shovels
out.

>Perhaps it might be pertinent to turn the whole thing round and
>look at the positive aspects.

>UFO Magazine brings the subject of ufology to an international
>market, particularly it's domestic market. Without us, the
>vacuum it would create, as well as the loss of an outlet and
>noted source of information, and to an extent, leadership and
>guidance, would be devastating for British ufology.

Guidance?!! How ridiculous. I have had some, IMO, possibly
credible reports from British UFOlogers complaining about how
Graham allegedly tried to put down anything in British UFOlogy
that did not please him and his publishing effort. Hearsay, it's
true, but baseless? I wonder whether there might have been some
fire with the smoke.

>Open it's pages and you are suddenly in a world where, despite what
you think Ray, you are treated with respect because the subject that
>fascinates and intrigues you is taken very seriously.

Oh really! Respect, huh?! Do you call literally stealing the
copyrighted illustrations from my book on Socorro, without
asking my permission and with absolutely no credit, as to
source, being respectful? Graham Birdsall didn't care to
manifest it in the context of my intellectual property!

I expect to be speaking with a copyright lawyer tomorrow to
discuss possible action for theft of intellectual property. It
is not a matter of money, but a matter of principle. I would
hope that in so doing, the theft of intellectual properties of
other writers, illustrators, photographers, or researchers might
be discouraged. I suspect a letter from their UK office should
begin to set you people straight concerning the matter of
respect for the intellectual property of others. Of course, an
acknowledgement of the misdeed (mentioning Volume number, issue
number, and page numbers), plus a sincere and profound apology
for it from the present editor of the magazine addressed to me
via this public forum (UFO UpDates, if acceptable to Errol)
might cause me to reconsider the matter.

In a private letter to me (yesterday, February 21, 2004) you said:

"If the facts are as you describe, and I have no reason to
question what you say at this moment, then unquestionably we owe
your [sic.] a profound and sincere apology, which I extend on
behalf on the magazine.

How can you apologize for anything you have not acknowledged
happened?

>I'm bright enough, Ray, to work out that your observations are,
>in a way, complimentary. You feel we've let you down. You
>wouldn't feel like that if you didn't care for the magazine and
>expected "better".

I do hope for better editorial policy from your magazine.
(Pardon my generic use of your.)

>...tell me ...what changes you would like to see. I won't
>criticize - I will treat what you say seriously and discuss it
>with the editor and then >get back to you.

I like that suggestion and if you will privately provide me a
telephone number, I will gladly call you at my expense and
discuss suggestions. Sorry, I'm a slow typist and am too busy
writing on two scientific papers (ancient tracks, not UFOs,
right now) and preparing a couple of books, but I am open to
offering suggestions if there is an open mind and a 'willing
ear'.

>>In maintaining the position the magazine has taken concerning
>>such things, some persons who are doing serious, objective, and
>>scientifically credible UFO research increasingly cringe at
>>submitting an even highly popularized article for the magazine.
>>How do I know? I have talked to some of them who have considered
>>and rejected submission of interesting and, IMO, evidential and
>>important manuscripts.

>Then those that feel like that are welcome to either sit on what
>they've written, so that no one will ever read it, or to submit
>their work elsewhere to a web site or small circulation
>publication, so that, er, no one will ever read it.

The wise prefer quality over size, in matters ranging as widely
as sex through science. Yet, serious UFOlogy based on physical
science need not resort to small publications or to publishing
on obscure websites, when they do not chose your magazine, thank
you.

>Hear what you're saying, Ray. "My work is too good to be sullied
>by publication in that."

Talk about trying to put words into a guy's mouth! That's an
incredibly subjective and 'read-into' interpretation of my short
comments concerning the magazine. In fact, I was not at all
referring to my work but to work and the opinions of colleagues
(and said so) whom I respect because of their objectivity and
scientific approach. Don't expect them to be knocking at your
magazine's door unless editorial policy up-grades greatly.

My exact statement was:

"In maintaining the position the magazine has taken concerning
such things, some persons who are doing serious, objective, and
scientifically credible UFO research increasingly cringe at
submitting an even highly popularized article for the magazine.
How do I know? I have talked to some of them who have considered
and rejected submission of interesting and, IMO, evidential and
important manuscripts."

Looks as though you did not objectively read my statement! I
said, "I have talked to some of them..." and I am not in the
habit of talking to myself. Those mentioned, with whom I have
discussed the matter, say they also have colleagues (to whom I
did not speak) who feel the same way.

I suppose their attitude could possibly also have something to
do not only with the editorial policy of your magazine but with
the fact that your magazine has also sponsored at its annual
(until Graham's untimely death) conferences the likes of Stephen
Greer, Bob Oeschler, etc. (Yes, I realize that some of your
speakers have been much more credible than they.)

All this is not to say that your magazine has had nothing of
value in it, but a change in editorial policy would, IMO, help
you and maybe even the world, in the long run.


Very Sincerely,

Ray Stanford







   UFO UpDates
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   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   Feb > Feb 23

                        Re: The Illuminati - Stanford

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 21:47:46 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 13:22:53 -0500
Subject: Re: The Illuminati - Stanford


>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 09:04:10 -0800
>Subject: Re: The Illuminati

>>From: Nick Kirkos <atlantis.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 15:11:29 -0500
>>Subject: Re: The Illuminati

<snip>

>>I enjoy when this List delves into alternate realities. Mr. Hall
>>may not wish to shake-up his belief systems, that is fine. The
>>realization that corrupt activities by governments seems to have
>>no limit is very unsettling and is worthy of discussion.

>>The Illuminati have been linked to UFOs. Like any and all UFO
>>theories this can not be proven. So in my book this topic is
>>fair game for this List.

>Pardon me for interjecting, but the blanket you're putting on
>UFOs, is rather large - i.e.: "Like any and all UFO theories,
>this can not be proven."

>Many theories have been proven about UFOs - it is not a
>'faith-based' subject.

Hello Frank,

If you have time and inclination to do so, please share with us
the theories you feel have been proven about UFOs.

Thanks,

Ray Stanford

"You know my method. It is founded upon the observance of
trifles." --Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   Feb > Feb 23

                         Re: UFO Magazine UK - Gates

From: Robert Gates <RGates8254.nul>
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 01:01:08 EST
Fwd Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 13:24:25 -0500
Subject: Re: UFO Magazine UK - Gates


>From: Stuart Miller <Stuart.Miller4.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 16:52:49 -0000
>Subject: UFO Magazine UK

>>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 12:19:57 -0500
>>Subject: Re: BLURFOs

><snip>

>>I understand what you're saying, but no not at all agree with
>>such 'taking' of an uninformed public with photographic
>>artifacts (i.e., 'orbs', as clearly demythologized by Neff and
>>others before him) presented in a context by which they may be
>>misunderstood as images of truly anomalous objects or phenomena.

>Well, it would be fascinating to take a poll on this List to see
>how many are desirous of dumping, say, abductions into the same
>waste paper pin that you wish to drop the subject of orbs into.
>Believe you me, there would be plenty. Not into abductions Ray?
>Then whatever specifics do interest you, I guarantee you
>someone, somewhere will think it's a complete load of baloney,
>and whats more, will no doubt be able to point to some reputable
>"expert" who can convincingly debunk your pet speciality. Don't
>be so elistist.

Listers,

Personally I am not that impressed with the so called rods
however I do realize that some people breathlessly await the
next rods video.

What would be interesting is a side by side comparison shot in
so called New Mexico rod country of rods with both a 16mm camera
and a digital video, and an analog video. One suspects that the
so called Rods would only be visible in the video camera. One
also suspects that when that might happen (if it ever did) we
would hear elaborate tales and stories about how the rods,
moving at 100 million miles per hour are only visible in the
video frames blah blah blah.

As to coverage in UFO Mag, lets be fair. Some people aren't into
Cattle Mutilations, yet articles may appear, some people aren't
into abductions, yet articles may appear, some people aren't
into super secret aircraft, yet articles appear. Some people
don't believe in crop circles, yet articles may appear. The
point of a monthly magazine is not to appear only to those who
believe in Cattle mutilations that happen at 8:34 PM on Saturday
nights. The point is to have sufficently interesting articles
about the many facets of UFO and UFO releated research and
interests.


Cheers,

Robert







   UFO UpDates
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   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   Feb > Feb 23

              Re: Last Night's 'Strange Days... Indeed' Program

From: John <johnvelez.aic.nul>
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 01:43:49 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 13:27:19 -0500
Subject: Re: Last Night's 'Strange Days... Indeed' Program


>From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 11:32:49 EST
>Subject: Last Night's 'Strange Days... Indeed' Program

>Saturday night is a big night for the paranormal.

>I tuned into Errol Bruce-Knapp's 'Strange Days... Indeed' and
>was treated to a jam-packed, edge of the seat thrill ride.

>I had a ball! Mr. Ted Phillips was on, noted for his extensive
>UFO trace cases research. Found out he was a musician and a
>generally jovial gentleman of the kind of down-to-earth ( no pun
>intended ) character so rare in the limelight.

>He spun a very funny tale about singer Andy Williams a favorite
>of my family. We got to learn also about the great state of
>Missouri. Quite the music launchpad for countless stars and art
>forms! ( I know, one of our ministers is from St. Louis and he
>won't shut up about it.)

Hi Greg, All,

Pardon this 'long one' but I need to speak about something very
important that threatens the integrity of the List in a very
fundamental way. Read on and it'll all become clear.

Greg wrote:

>Also on was John Velez who talked about this List.

I've earned the right to sound off about this List when I need
to. At the invitation of the moderator, I have been an active
member of this List, almost since its inception in the mid-
nineties. With each post I have always strived to make an
informative or meaningful contribution. Some times I hit the
mark, sometimes I miss, but my intentions are always honest and
from the heart.

This List, its moderator and many of its members mean a lot to
me. Aside from some truly wonderful friendships I've formed,
there is a lot of 'me' invested in this List. Because of the
reason 'why' I am here, I have always been candid, with everyone
and kept myself as open and available as any human being can be
given the circumstances. All in hopes of maybe raising the
awareness of the readers of UFO UpDates and hopefully to help
out one or two folks who may find themselves in the same
impossible situation myself and my family find ourselves in.

I am a hard working family man. The time of my life that I give
to this List is taken from them. Time spent here has to be
meaningfully spent. I'm not here to sell anybody anything, no
books, no 'take' or belief systems about 'aliens' or 'UFOs', nor
am I here promoting myself or my 'theories.'

I'm here to do my level headed best to make the best
contribution I can to something I firmly believe is the most
important issue facing mankind today. Hopefully to enjoy the
ride as well. However, when it becomes frustrating, hurtful and
mean-spirited, it drains all the life-force out of it. Worse
yet, it threatens the integrity of the List.

Greg, you wrote:

>John, you spoke of issues I've had to deal with on a daily basis
>when working for the old 'Parascope' forum on America Online.

Then you will be sure to understand the corrosive nature of what
I am about to share. Read the following message from Nick
Balaskas addressed to Amy Hebert and tell me if it sets off any
of your internal 'alarms.'

Nick writes to Amy off-List:

>Hi Amy!

>Thanks to James Neff, we now have a name/acronym for this class
>of blurred or odd UFO-like images that were never seen by the
>photographer or noticed by others that may have been present.

>It is BLURFO!

>Since such unwitnessed blurred or odd UFO-like images will no
>longer be classed as "UFOs", we can now publicly argue over any
>such "BLURFO" without making us look foolish or confusing the
>public about current state of ufology and the true nature of
>UFOs.

>As for other things that people also report seeing in the sky
>that are also of much concern to them - such as "jet contrails"
>and "chemtrails" - we should finally retire the more sinister
>sounding latter name since there is nothing physical or chemical
>ever proven to justify a distinction between jet contrails and
>chemtrails.

>Nick Balaskas

Why are some members of this List deciding on which 'labels' and
'explanations' to use to debunk (in the future) when a photo
turns up of - quote - "blurred or odd UFO-like images that were
never seen by the photographer or noticed by others that may
have been present."

Isn't that the same kind of cheap, thoughtless 'stock answer'
debunking that CSICOP does? Does this sound like 'collusion' to
debunk and dismiss future offerings with pre-approved and agreed
upon 'labels'? Does it not attempt to exercise an insidious kind
of 'control?'  I think it does.

These little 'behind the scenes' agreements among those who will
monopolize and control the discussion for the sake of increasing
the value of their own stock, is arrogant and egocentric. It
also explains why I can no longer post to this List without
being -systematically- defamed and insulted.

>As John observed on the program, the often unprofessional and
>disrespectful attacks on Lists, members etc., I had to deal with
>on a daily basis.

What gets me by the ya-ya's is how they will jab at you with
demeaning insults and then accuse you of making noise and
'attacking_them' when you dare to hit back. I'm not much for
'turning my cheek' so I'm an easy mark for them. But no more.
Now I'm wise to the fact that (maybe more than most,) I
represent a very _threat_ to these individuals. Maybe to the
'turf' they are trying to stake out for themselves. I don't
know. But It would explain the vehemence and ferocity of their
negative almost obsessive attention towards me.

>We often would have tag teams of people who would appear, just
>to invalidate the viewpoints of others. Many times we'd have to
>set the hounds on them, and soon discovered they were part of
>gangs whose agendas were threatened by any viewpoint they felt
>uncomfortable with.

As  much denial as will follow my publication of the note above
from Nick to Amy, the tone and 'intention' of it is clear.

>What was even funnier was, one day one of these jokers sent out
>an email to his cronies detailing their next attack. What the
>guy failed to realize is that he had included my email address
>in his address window. I sat there for 2 days reading how these
>knuckleheads were plotting and what they'd done in the past.

That is _exactly_ the situation we have here! I find myself
being sent copies of this Mickey Mouse Club's conspiratorial
crap for reasons unknown to me. I just want to see them exposed
and hanging by their own words for all the _unearned_ grief
they've caused me.

>Suprised me what groups they were working for! Then I sprang it
>on them. Red faces all that day! Suddenly, for about a year,
>there was calm in ye old "Grassy Knoll" Chat Room.

Hopefully myself and others who dare to use terms like, "flying
saucer" on a UFO List will not be set upon by these control
freaks.

>When a person resorts to insults they immediately admit they've
>run out of facts. The truth needs no anger, nor condescending
>rhetoric to make its point. It's the truth.

Ahem, Mr. Stanford, are ya listenin'?

>So John Velez, don't let em' get ya' down.

No sir. I do business here with the confidence and inner
strength of a man who has the truth on his side.  ;)

>When people act like
>that toward you and conspire against you, it only means they're
>upset because you've proven yourself better than they, and they
>can't stand it.

I don't pretend to know why some people do some of the things
they do. But when it starts to affect me, or something I care
about, _adversely_ that's where I draw a line in the sand that
none may pass.

Thanks for the note Greg. It was timely and something I needed
to hear right now.

For the benefit of the List...

Regards,

John Velez








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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   Feb > Feb 24

                      NASA & Soviet Astronauts And UFOs

From: Giuliano Marinkovic <giuliano.marinkovic.nul>
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 15:01:01 +0100
Fwd Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 08:14:29 -0500
Subject: NASA & Soviet Astronauts And UFOs


NASA & Soviet Astronauts And UFOs
Alleged Incidents During Space Missions
More Traces - Can Anyone Confirm This?


Dear Colleagues,

I am preparing new TV documentary about UFO incidents in Space
where I want to give an objective look towards the controversy.
Altought I have a pretty much good chronology there is one part
of ufology in that field that is especially controversial.

There are some sources in ufology which indicated that there are
some radio communications between Apollo and other mission with
Houston (which were not open to public) where some astronauts
allegedly reported UFO's.

Allegedly some HAMRADIO operators have heard those
communications. There is famous quote connected with Apollo 11
mission which says:

NASA: Whats there?

Mission Control calling Apollo 11...

Apollo 11: These "Babies" are huge, Sir! Enormous!

OH MY GOD! You wouldn't believe it!

I'm telling you there are other spacecraft out there, Lined up
on the far side of the crater edge! They're on the Moon watching
us!

As Hamradio operator myself, few years ago, I tried to confirm
those allegations but without no luck which gives me impressions
that those quotes are a very old hoax. But anyway, if anyone has
more info about it or more comments please send it to me so I
could use it in my TV and radio program.

There are some other sources about old NASA missions and UFO's
like Frank Edwards's antological book 'Flying Saucers - serious
bussiness' and some statemens from Maurice Chatelain, allegedly
ex worker inside NASA. Can anyone confirm those allegations
which I will present in the text bellow. Is this a confirmed
hoax or there are some other sources that can confirm this
statemens and allegations with some good ground?

Also has anyone heard about that alleged interview with Neil
Armstrong and anonymous professor which you will also find in
the text bellow.

Please check the text bellow;

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

by Maurice Chatelain, former chief of NASA Communications

Maurice Chatelain, mathematician, physicist and a writer, as
well as one of those who designed the space ship Apollo, and
former chief of NASA Communications for the Apollo moon
missions, is among those who have broken the silence of the
cover--up, and has revealed the following information on
extraterrestrial civilizations which have constantly watched our
space missions.


Neil Armstrong & Edwin "Buzz" Aldrin

According to the NASA Astronaut Neil Armstrong the Aliens have a
base on the Moon and told us in no uncertain terms to get off
and stay off the Moon.

According to hitherto un-confirmed reports, both Neil Armstrong
and Edwin "Buzz" Aldrin saw UFOs shortly after that historic
landing on the Moon in Apollo 11 on 21 July 1969. I remember
hearing one of the astronauts refer to a "light" in or on a
crater during the television transmission, followed by a request
from mission control for further information. Nothing more was
heard.

According to a former NASA employee Otto Binder, unnamed radio
hams with their own VHF receiving facilities that bypassed
NASA's broadcasting outlets picked up the following exchange:


NASA: Whats there?

Mission Control calling Apollo 11...

Apollo 11: These "Babies" are huge, Sir! Enormous!

OH MY GOD! You wouldn't believe it!

I'm telling you there are other spacecraft out there,

Lined up on the far side of the crater edge!

They're on the Moon watching us!

A certain professor, who wished to remain anonymous, was engaged
in a discussion with Neil Armstrong during a NASA symposium.

Professor: What REALLY happened out there with Apollo 11?

Armstrong: It was incredible, of course we had always known
there was a possibility, the fact is, we were warned off!(by the
Aliens). There was never any question then of a space station or
a moon city.

Professor: How do you mean "warned off"?

Armstrong: I can't go into details, except to say that their
ships were far superior to ours both in size and technology -
Boy, were they big! ...and menacing!

No, there is no question of a space station.

Professor: But NASA had other missions after Apollo 11?

Armstrong: Naturally - NASA was committed at that time, and
couldn't risk panic on Earth. But it really was a quick scoop
and back again.

According to a Dr. Vladimir Azhazha:

"Neil Armstrong relayed the message to Mission Control that two
large, mysterious objects were watching them after having landed
near the moon module. But this message was never heard by the
public -- because NASA censored it."

According to a Dr. Aleksandr Kasantsev, Buzz Aldrin took color
movie film of the UFOs from inside the module, and continued
filming them after he and Armstrong went outside.

Armstrong confirmed that the story was true but refused to go
into further detail, beyond admitting that the CIA was behind
the cover-up.

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D


Sent by:

<=3D=3D=3D>=3D=3D=3D<=3D=3D=3D>=3D=3D=3D<=3D=3D=3D>=3D=3D=3D<=3D=3D=3D>=3D=
=3D=3D<=3D=3D=3D>=3D=3D=3D<=3D=3D=3D>=3D=3D=3D<=3D=3D=3D>=3D=3D=3D<=3D=3D=3D=
>
Giuliano Marinkovi=E6
* urednik i scenarist TV emisije 'UFO-ENIGMA'
* autor i urednik radio emisije 'UFO_NAUTICA'
editor of the TV and radio programs 'UFO-ENIGMA' and 'UFO-NAUTICA'
Radio Student (Zagreb) 100,5 Mhz, Utorak - 22:00 h
Radio Sky (Beketinci - Osijek) 103,3 Mhz, Utorak - 21:00 h
Streaming: http://www.radiosky.tk
<=3D=3D=3D>=3D=3D=3D<=3D=3D=3D>=3D=3D=3D<=3D=3D=3D>=3D=3D=3D<=3D=3D=3D>=3D=
=3D=3D<=3D=3D=3D>=3D=3D=3D<=3D=3D=3D>=3D=3D=3D<=3D=3D=3D>=3D=3D=3D<=3D=3D=3D=
>
Adresa / Snail mail:
Giuliano Marinkovic, Poste-Restante, 10000 Zagreb, Croatia, Europe
<=3D=3D=3D>=3D=3D=3D<=3D=3D=3D>=3D=3D=3D<=3D=3D=3D>=3D=3D=3D<=3D=3D=3D>=3D=
=3D=3D<=3D=3D=3D>=3D=3D=3D<=3D=3D=3D>=3D=3D=3D<=3D=3D=3D>=3D=3D=3D<=3D=3D=3D=
>
e-mail: giuliano.marinkovic.nul
ICQ UIN: #66584465
gsm: +385-98-900-2649
<=3D=3D=3D>=3D=3D=3D<=3D=3D=3D>=3D=3D=3D<=3D=3D=3D>=3D=3D=3D<=3D=3D=3D>=3D=
=3D=3D<=3D=3D=3D>=3D=3D=3D<=3D=3D=3D>=3D=3D=3D<=3D=3D=3D>=3D=3D=3D<=3D=3D=3D=
>=3D=3D=3D<=3D=3D=3D>






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                   Might Earth Sew Seeds Throughout Space?

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 09:40:24 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 16:28:24 -0500
Subject: Might Earth Sew Seeds Throughout Space?


I thought some of you might find this science speculation as
carried in today's Nature Science Updates of interest.

Yes, scientists do speculate, legitimately so:

http://www.nature.com/nsu/040216/040216-20.html


Ray Stanford

"You know my method. It is founded upon the observance of
trifles." -- Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery







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                 More Fallout From Pombero Argentina Attack

From: Scott Corrales <lornis1.nul>
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 09:54:29 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 16:30:19 -0500
Subject: More Fallout From Pombero Argentina Attack



INEXPLICATA
The Journal of Hispanic Ufology
February 23, 2004


SOURCE: El Norte Edici=F3n Digital
DATE: February 23, 2004

SAEZ PENA STILL IN UPROAR OVER STRANGE PHENOMENON ASSAILING
WOMAN

SAENZ PENA (Agencia). From midnite on Saturday until two in the
morning on Sunday, residents of 31st Street and 0000 of Barrio
Santa Teresita were on the lookout, fearful that the strange
events that may have taken place last week would occur again.
These attacks were attributed to the work of a "pomberito" (imp,
goblin) and black magic.

However, yesterday morning was peaceful, as it had always been
in this neighborhood until the strange event shattered the
habitual calm. In the meantime, the 26 year old woman at the
center of the events is still hospitalized, claiming that she
was attacked by a creature standing less than 1 meter tall,
completely black, that struck her in the face and wanted to drag
her away by her feet. Neighbors armed with sticks, machetes and
daggers tried to defend her against something they couldn't see.

Even the police was alerted, and residents were told to call law
enforcement again should a repetition of the events occur.
Police officers reported to the scene on the evening of Thursday
and early Friday morning when the entire neighborhood was turned
on its ear by the alleged Pombero attack on the girl, and the
shower of stones that fell on the dwellings. They [police] were
also witnesesses--although armed with weapons they didn't know
where to point at--of the strange "brickbatting" of the homes,
according to the police report itself.

As these events occurred on Tuesday and Thursday, the fear was
that they would repeat on Saturday, following the logic of one
"off night" between events. But this was not the case, and
locals consulted by NORTE yesterday pointed out that this is due
to the visit of a holy man who prayed with them in their homes.

"I've come to give you some relief, not to increase your fear.
And your knowledge of God must be increased, and of the value of
the family itself," said deacon Dionisio Castagna of the San
Jose Parish, who visited the dwellings affected by these events
at the neighbors' own request. "They asked me to bless their
homes, and I thought it was a good thing. What's important is
not that I should go pour water at the homes, but to give them a
chance to speak with God," said the clergyman in a marked
Italian accent.

Mario Obregon, a neighbor of the young woman attacked by the
alleged Pombero, witnessed her falling to the ground and being
dragged along, screaming that someone was pulling her feet and
trying to drag her away. "She went into some shrubs were she was
beaten. All of the neighbors went out to check the site and
found nothing. In the meantime, from 2 a.m. to 4 a.m., the
shower of stones continued."

"My neighbor saw a shadow behind my house. The locals crowded
into the back of my property, and that's when something grabbed
this girl and threw her to the ground. When I saw that she was
prone, i went back and saw that something was dragging her
along. She screamed that it hurt, that [someone] should get it
off of her, that she saw a critter, or a man, something. We
could see nothing."

"I never saw this, nor did anything remotely similar ever happen
to me. The boy who lives next door says it could be the Pombero.
I don't know the Pombero, so I can't say, because I don't know.
We simply saw something  we can't describe, but it was
supernatural," he concluded.

According to tradition and the remarks of Maria Jaime, a
Corrientes native residing in Canada, the Pombero or
"Pomberito", as he is affectionately know, is the most popular
of the Corrientes goblins throught the ranch country of that
river basin. He also appears in conversation, songs, sayings and
tales.

He is short and squat, always covered by his large straw hat. He
is as lascivious as the "curup=ED", has hairy feet and walks
noiselessly--for this reason, he is dubbed "Pirague", a name
that has been used to describe indpendent or left-wing
politicians.

It is said that the Pombero can be a faithful friend in whom one
can trust blindly in a time of need. An inveterate smoker, he
likes to chew tobacco, and cigarrettes or tobacco products must
be left out for him at night, by a window, on a barbed wire
post, etc. For this he is also known as mascadita ("Chewie").
Black tobacco is his favorite.

The Pombero is a protean imp. He can turn into a bird, a
floating log, anything. He has the gift of turning invisible and
penetrates ranches through any hole. He sings like a small
chicken when anouncing himslef, but can imitate all birds
perfectly. Out of fear of causing a manifestation, some only
name him in low voices, but he also has adepts who claim to have
dealings with him and hold conversations as well.

He sleeps in backfills and abandoned ovens. He mesmerizes the
girls he wants to seduce, which is why whenever there is a
suspicious birth in town and the father is unknown, people say:
"Surely it was the Pombero!"

In regard to the Pombero's preference for women, it is said in
Corrientes that he falls in love with pregnant women who are
carrying girl children. Women say that they know for sure if
they're giving birth to a girl, because they can feel, from the
very first months, that the Pombero is escorting them when they
walk at night, or when they are asleep.

Among the Araucan natives there is also a Pombero known as
Peuken who pursues women. He is also a short, lascivious dwarf
from the forested regions of Chile.

[...]


Translation (C) 2004 Scott Corrales
Institute of Hispanic Ufology
Special thanks to Gloria Coluchi







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                          Secrecy News -- 02/23/04

From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood.nul>
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 11:17:08 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 16:32:26 -0500
Subject: Secrecy News -- 02/23/04


SECRECY NEWS
from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy
Volume 2004, Issue No. 21
February 23, 2004


**      SPECIAL OPERATIONS FORCES ON THE ASCENDANT
**      BARRIERS TO UNCLASSIFIED INFO PROLIFERATE
**      CRS ON FOREIGN TERRORIST ORGANIZATIONS


SPECIAL OPERATIONS FORCES ON THE ASCENDANT

In a quiet realignment of U.S. military force structure,
clandestine special operations forces are being assigned ever
greater mission responsibility.

"In the last three years the role of the Special Operations
Forces has just increased and increased and increased," said
Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld in a February 17 interview
with WTVT-TV in Tampa, Florida, where U.S. Special Operations
Command is headquartered.

But the nature and significance of that increase are difficult
for the public to fathom, since government officials won't
discuss the subject.

"I have no comment on any particular questions about Special
Forces because we don't talk about these Special Forces," said
Pentagon spokesman Lawrence DiRita at a February 19 news
briefing.

In the absence of official comment, one can still glean a good
deal of information about the role of special operations forces
through unclassified military research and strategy papers.

Over the past year alone, studies have been prepared on topics
such as: "The Army Special Operations Forces Role in Force
Projection";   "How Can the U.S. Army Overcome Intelligence
Sharing Challenges Between Conventional and Special Operations
Forces?"; "Transformation of Special Operations: Reducing Joint
Friction"; "Should the Marine Corps Expand Its Role in Special
Operations?"; and "Guerrilla Warfare Tactics in Urban
Environments".

These and other papers on special operations can be found here:

http://www.fas.org/man/eprint/index.html#sof

The budget for Special Operations Command increased by 35% in
2004, reported William M. Arkin in an incisive critical
commentary on special forces in the Los Angeles Times, "Not a
Magic Bullet," February 22.


BARRIERS TO UNCLASSIFIED INFO PROLIFERATE

The system of government controls on unclassified information is
becoming more complex, as new types of official restrictions on
public access to information multiply.  These include the
following:


Critical Infrastructure Information (CII)

On February 20, the Department of Homeland Security published
its interim rule on "critical infrastructure information" (CII),
which would prohibit release of information "voluntarily
submitted" by industry regarding systemic infrastructure
vulnerabilities.

"By offering an opportunity for protection from disclosure under
the Freedom of Information Act for information that
qualifies..., the Department will assure private sector entities
that their information will be safeguarded from abuse by
competitors or the open market," DHS stated.  See:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/2004/02/fr022004.html

"Shrouding infrastructure information in absolute secrecy will
remove a powerful incentive for remedial action and might
actually exacerbate security problems," argued David Sobel of
the Electronic Privacy Information Center in July 2002
testimony:

   http://www.epic.org/security/infowar/07_02_testimony.html


Critical Energy Infrastructure Information (CEII)

Another new and related control category called "Critical Energy
Infrastructure Information" (CEII) was devised by the Federal
Energy Regulatory Commission (FERC).  This extraordinary control
marking blocks public requests for certain unclassified energy
information unless the requester can demonstrate a "need to
know," and consents to sign a non-disclosure agreement.

Over the past six months, FERC reports, it received 126 requests
for information designated as CEII.  Most requests were granted,
or otherwise resolved.

But four requests were denied "because the requester did not
agree to the terms of an appropriate non-disclosure agreement."
 See:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/2004/02/ferc021304.html


Sensitive Homeland Security Information (SHSI)

A separate category called "Sensitive Homeland Security
Information" was established in the Homeland Security Act of
2002.  The regulations governing this category have not been
completed.

"The Department of Homeland Security is currently working to
develop procedures for the sharing of sensitive homeland
security information," a DHS official wrote on February 18. "At
this time, however, these procedures have not been finalized."

http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/2004/02/dhs021804.pdf


Sensitive But Unclassified (SBU)

Then there is "sensitive but unclassified."   This term is most
frequently used as a generic description of information that is
not intended for release, rather than as a specific information
control category.

But here is a November 2002 Treasury Department document that is
actually marked "Sensitive But Unclassified."  It comes from the
document collection published by Ron Susskind in connection with
his book "The Price of Loyalty":

http://digbig.com/3shh


The Tenth Exemption

Perhaps the most widespread of all official controls on
unclassified information is what might be called the tenth
exemption to the Freedom of Information Act:  "I don't wanna
tell you."

Last week Secrecy News called the CIA Public Affairs office to
request a copy of the unclassified speech that was delivered at
CIA on February 11 by Jami A. Mascik, deputy director of
intelligence.  The text of the speech had previously been
provided to the Washington Post and the New York Times.

A few hours later, a CIA official ("Michelle") called back to
advise that Bill Harlow, the head of CIA public affairs, was
"exercising his discretion not to give it to you."


CRS ON FOREIGN TERRORIST ORGANIZATIONS

A new report from the Congressional Research Service provides a
111 page compilation of previously published information on
"Foreign Terrorist Organizations."

A copy of the February 6 report, courtesy of the U.S. State
Department but not the U.S. Congress, is posted here:

http://www.fas.org/irp/crs/RL32223.pdf


_______________________________________________
Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the
Federation of American Scientists.

To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to
secrecy_news-request.nul
with "subscribe" in the body of the message.

OR email your request to saftergood.nul

Secrecy News is archived at:
http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html

_______________________
Steven Aftergood
Project on Government Secrecy
Federation of American Scientists
web:    www.fas.org/sgp/index.html
email:  saftergood.nul
voice:  (202) 454-4691






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                       Re: The Beveridge UFO - Bright

From: Dan Bright <ufo.nul>
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 18:07:11 -0000
Fwd Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 16:33:43 -0500
Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO - Bright


>From: Tom DeMary <t.demary.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 13:05:23 -0600 (GMT-06:00)
>Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO

>>From: Dan Bright <ufo.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 20:26:19 -0000
>>Subject: Re: The Beveridge UFO - Bright

>I tested the USNO site, and, I claim, it agrees with my previous
>calculations. I used form B, 15 Jan 2004, S 37 31, E 145 07, East
>of Greenwich, 11 hours. I got:

Tom:

I've just checked back, and it seems I failed to account for DST
correctly. It states "When daylight time is in use, add one hour
to the times listed in the table." So, for 13:52, I had a
brain- burp and looked up the table value for 13:52+1hr. Of
course, I should have looked up 12:52.

Thanks for calling that Tom, I should have double checked but
was yet to get round to it.


Best,

Dan







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                           Re: BLURFOs - Bugliaro

From: Michele Bugliaro <michelebugliaro.nul>
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 19:41:56 +0100
Fwd Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 16:35:51 -0500
Subject: Re: BLURFOs - Bugliaro


>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 15:24:02 -0800
>Subject: Re: BLURFOs

>>From: Michele Bugliaro <michelebugliaro.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 18:49:13 +0100
>>Subject: Re: BLURFOs

<snip>

>>>Your English is just fine! I should speak Helvetian as well.

>>Thanks. Only thing is, Helvetian doesn't exist: we speak
>>Italian, French and German, as I do.

>I was only kidding about Helvetian.

>I saw the word "Helvetia" on a Swiss Franc coin for the first
>time in 1965. That seemed like a nice root-word for all things
>Swiss. Now I will make a Helvetian cheese sandwich, You know,
>that tasty cheese with the holes in it.

Aaah, okay. <LOL>In fact, the full latin name is "Confederatio
Helvetica". I did some latin in the past, but nowadays I cannot
say more than "Formosam Gliceram amat Lupercus". :-)

Back to clypei ardentes.



................................
Michele Bugliaro, Designer SUP, Red. Informiamo.com
<http://www.ufopsi.com>
<http://pub169.ezboard.com/bufopsiforum>
................................
"We all live with the objective of being happy; our lives are
all different and yet the same." (Anne Frank)








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                  Re: Bizarre Argentine Encounter - Wilson

From: Katharina Wilson <K_Wilson.nul>
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 17:25:06 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 16:37:50 -0500
Subject: Re: Bizarre Argentine Encounter - Wilson


>From: Albert Rosales <Garuda79.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 14:55:52 EST
>Subject: Bizarre Argentine Encounter


>Location. Santa Teresita, Saenz Peata, Chaco, Argentina

>Date: February 21 2004  Time: late night

<snip>

>She could only describe the entity as short, dark and shadowy,
>which covered her mouth and began to drag her on the ground.
>Hearing her screams, several neighbors, family members, and her
>boyfriend ran to find the woman lying on the ground suffering
>facial injuries.

>She kept screaming that "he is trying to drag me away" as the
>astounded group watched as a mysterious force indeed seemed to
>pull her away, however they did not see anybody.

And another snip about the same story, but a different post:

>From: Scott Corrales <lornis1.nul>
>Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 15:47:57 -0500
>Fwd Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 13:10:57 -0500
>Subject: Argentine Woman Almost Battered To Death By 'Imp'


>INEXPLICATA
>The Journal of Hispanic Ufology
>February 22, 2004

>Source: El Norte Digital
>Date: February 22, 2004

>ARGENTINA: WOMAN NEARLY BATTERED TO DEATH BY "IMP"

>An hour later, the police returned to the site and underook an
>operation led by deputy sheriff Aldo Fernandez, who found an
>unusually large number of peolpe who claimed that the woman in
>question "was lifted and thrown against the wall, but we could
>not see who was throwing her. She was bruised and had to be
>hospitalized."

Wouldn't _this_ fall into the "Invisibility Theory" posed by
Budd Hopkins and Carol Rainey in "Sight Unseen"? ?


Katharina Wilson









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                              When UFOs Arrive

From: Stephen MILES Lewis <ufoupdates.nul>
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 18:32:02 -0600
Fwd Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 16:41:23 -0500
Subject: When UFOs Arrive


Source: Popular Mechanics

http://popularmechanics.com/science/space/2004/2/when_ufos_arrive/

When UFOs Arrive

The U.S. and other world governments already have detailed
secret plans for first contact.

By Jim Wilson
Illustration by Edwin Herder

When UFOs land, a series of plans created to deal with nuclear
emergencies and biological attacks will be activated.

Within the scientific community, the question is no longer
whether extraterrestrial life exists, but if ET is smart enough
to do long division. Scientists are of two minds regarding the
existence of extraterrestrial intelligence. Skeptics acknowledge
simple life-forms might be found on other planets, but insist
that intelligent life is unique to Earth. Their belief is based
on the assumption that Earth possesses unique physical
attributes, including a magnetic field that deflects cosmic rays
and a moon that absorbs asteroids. Together, these protective
features make Earth a rare safe harbor--one that nurtured the
evolution of primitive life-forms into intelligent beings. The
opposing camp sees the prospect for discovering alien life in
more mathematical terms. Its touchstone is the Drake Equation,
which links the probability of discovering extraterrestrial
intelligence to factors such as the size of the universe and the
number of stars with earthlike planets. With the discovery of
each new planet beyond Earth's solar system--there are now more
than 100--the odds of encountering intelligent alien life
increase. Governments and international organizations around the
world have taken notice of the changing odds. No governmental
official has gone on record claiming that UFOs are real, let
alone a threat. Yet with little public fanfare, they have begun
preparing for the single most important event in human history:
first contact. That is, the moment earthlings discover
incontrovertible proof that they are not alone.

Early Warning

Unless ET materializes from another dimension in the middle of
the Super Bowl, humans most likely will have some advance
warning of its arrival. How much time we get to straighten up
for extraterrestrial company depends upon who spots ET first.

The privately funded SETI Institute uses radio telescopes owned
by observatories around the world to sweep the sky for signals
broadcast by advanced civilizations. If ET has read Emily Post,
or her intergalactic equivalent, and calls ahead, we could have
years, even decades, to prepare for first contact.
Unfortunately, the current SETI (Search for Extraterrestrial
Intelligence) project can afford to look at only small swatches
of the sky, so any extraterrestrial courtesy calls probably will
be missed.

A more likely scenario is that the U.S. Air Force would spot
ET's spacecraft as it traverses the void between the Earth and
the moon. Using powerful radar and optical telescopes in Hawaii,
Greenland, Florida and the Indian Ocean, the Air Force Space
Command tracks satellites, monitors missile launches, and spots
baseball- and larger-size bits of orbiting debris with the hope
of preventing it from perforating a space shuttle or the
International Space Station. If ET turns up on Space Command's
radar, it would mean the alien visitors are only hours or
minutes away.

The giant radio telescope in Arecibo, Puerto Rico, has been the
backbone of the SETI project for 20 years.

A Proposed Welcoming Committee

Photos by Peter Menzel (Eric Drexler), Don Milici (Jane
Goodall), Phillip Gentry (Ning Li), NASA (John Glenn), courtesy
of MIT (Sheila E. Widnall), courtesy of SETI Institute (Frank
Drake), courtesy of Earthtech International, Inc. (Hal Puthoff)

The International Academy of Astronautics in Paris maintains a
list of volunteers willing to help world governments if ET
arrives. Most are astronomers. Here is the team that PM would
prefer to see on the job. Shown counterclockwise from the center
are:  Sen. John Glenn, American Representative. As the first
American to orbit the Earth and an elected political leader, the
senator is the obvious choice to lead the American delegation.
Frank Drake, Science Officer. Creator of the Drake Equation and
a driving force behind the SETI project, Drake would represent
the world's scientific community. Hal Puthoff, Powerplant
Engineering. An expert on zero-point energy, a means of
extracting limitless power from the quantum vacuum without
violating the known laws of physics, Puthoff would understand
how ET powers its craft.

Sheila E. Widnall, Weapons Systems. A Massachusetts Institute of
Technology professor who served as Secretary of the Air Force in
the 1990s, Widnall would be able to assess ET's weapons. Ning
Li, Propulsion Systems. A former NASA scientist, Li devised the
theory that explains how the electromagnetic force that we use
every day might also be harnessed to manipulate gravity. Perhaps
ET uses similar technology. K. Eric Drexler, Structural Systems.
A trailblazer in the now fast-growing field of nanotechnology--
building materials atom by atom--Drexler pioneered the idea of
smart materials, which ET would doubtlessly also use in its
craft. Jane Goodall, Communications Officer. Having devoted her
life to the study of chimpanzees, primatologist Goodall has
proved her ability to communicate with intelligent nonhumans.

Countdown To Contact

The broad-brush outline for Earth's response to the first alien
encounter is set out in an international agreement called the
"Declaration of Principles Concerning Activities Following the
Detection of Extraterrestrial Intelligence." Written by a
committee of scientists organized by the SETI Institute, the
declaration spells out what astronomers should do, and what they
should avoid doing, immediately after first contact.

Perhaps the most surprising aspect of the agreement is that
astronomers who sign on to the declaration agree to keep the
news of an imminent contact under their hat until the astronomy
community and authorities have been notified.

The declaration also establishes fairly specific guidelines
regarding the protection of the radio frequencies that alien
civilizations might use to communicate with Earth. As soon as a
radio signal is confirmed as originating from an
extraterrestrial source, the International Telecommunications
Union would ask governments around the world to forbid use of
that portion of the electromagnetic spectrum. It is hoped that
ET will have sufficiently studied human habits to understand
that calling earthlings on the frequencies used for microwave
ovens and garage door openers will be interpreted as a
belligerent act.

Close Encounter

Around 1999 the first contact protocols were put to the test.
For 12 hours, SETI astronomers marveled at the prospect that
their golden moment had arrived. A signal that repeated in an
organized pattern was detected beaming straight at the Earth
from 1 million miles in space.

The first priority was to alert radio astronomers around the
world to redirect their telescopes. The signal from the distant
stationary object quickly faded as the relentless rotation of
the Earth swept it out of the telescope's listening range.
Douglas Vakoch, the SETI Institute's social scientist
responsible for preparing Earth's reply to an extraterrestrial
message, tells POPULAR MECHANICS what happened next: "At this
point, all of our discussions were internal to our team. We
didn't want to cry wolf. Then, in the midst of the process, we
get a call from The New York Times." So much for the secrecy
provision of the SETI protocol. Within hours, the story
evaporated. The SETI team identified the mystery signal as a
data transmission from SOHO, a sun-watching observatory on an
almost-stationary orbit about 1 million miles from Earth.

Vakoch says he was not surprised that the story of the possible
alien contact leaked so quickly. "These guidelines have no legal
force. They have been drafted in the hope of getting broader
discussion."

As far as the U.S. government is concerned, that discussion
started and ended more than 40 years ago. Regardless of how the
world's astronomy community might want to handle first contact,
Uncle Sam has ideas of his own. And they rest on the assumption
that ET is first and foremost an illegal alien.

Presumed Dangerous

The question of how humanity might react to its first contact
with intelligent aliens was officially raised in the late 1950s
by the then newly created National Aeronautics and Space
Administration (NASA). Curious as to how discoveries about the
origin of the universe might affect society as a whole, NASA
contracted with the Brookings Institution, a leading think tank,
to research the question. Only a small part of its 100-page
answer, which came to be known as "The Brookings Report," dealt
with alien encounter. But it contained a stern warning.
"Anthropological files contain many examples of societies, sure
of their place in the universe, which have disintegrated when
they had to associate with previously unfamiliar societies
espousing different ideas and different life ways; others that
survived such an experience usually did so by paying the price
of changes in values and attitudes and behavior."

In 1972, as engineers prepared the first space mission that
would travel outside of Earth's solar system, NASA decided to
ignore warnings in the 1960 "Brookings Report" about the dangers
inherent in contact with an advanced alien race. Instead, the
space agency sent an invitation for extraterrestrials to visit
Earth. A gold-anodized aluminum plaque engraved with a map
showing the location of Earth was attached to the Pioneer 10
spacecraft. When it sent its last message, in January 2003, it
was more than 7 billion miles along on a trip that will take it
to the star Aldebaran.

Operating on the assumption that a craft with no exhaust stream
must be nuclear powered, the Nuclear Emergency Search Team
(NEST) would be mobilized to secure an alien aircraft.

State Of Emergency

If ET turns up at NASA's doorstep bearing that invitation, it is
in for a surprise. Instead of getting a handshake from the head
of NASA, it will be handcuffed by an FBI agent dressed in a
Biosafety Level 4 suit. Instead of sleeping in the Lincoln
Bedroom at the White House, the alien will be whisked away to
the Department of Agriculture's Animal Disease Center on Plum
Island, off the coast of New York's Long Island. Here it will be
poked and probed by doctors from the National Institutes of
Health. A Department of Energy (DOE) Nuclear Emergency Search
Team (NEST) will tow away its spacecraft.

Unfriendly as this welcome may seem, it is the chain of events
that most likely will follow the visitor's arrival. Unique as
the appearance of an alien-piloted spacecraft may be, the event
incorporates elements of three situations familiar to federal
emergency response workers: a plane crash, the release of
radioactive material, and the capture of an animal suspected of
harboring a contagious disease. Responsibilities in these
situations are spelled out in Presidential Executive Orders.

Unless it is spewing exhaust, the craft would be assumed to be
nuclear powered. This determination would put NEST technicians
in charge of securing the craft and moving it to a DOE facility,
most likely in New Mexico, where it would be in close proximity
to the Sandia and Los Alamos nuclear laboratories and the White
Sands Missile Range. International agreements also put NEST on
call if the craft lands out of the United States, as happened in
1978 when a Soviet satellite leaking nuclear fuel landed in the
Canadian wilderness.

NEST, however, would operate in the background. In a nuclear
emergency, the FBI is put in charge of public safety, public
health and public information. Those, at least, are the plans.
How things might actually turn out is anyone's guess.

Skeptics often ask why UFO sightings seem to take place only in
remote locations instead of on busy city streets. Perhaps ET
knows what earthlings have in mind when it lands.

Nonhuman but alive, ET would likely be legally classified as an
animal and quarantined in a Biosafety Level 4facility (above) on
Plum Island (below). PHOTO BY AP/WIDEWORLD PHOTOS










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                         Whittlesea Case Camera Info

From: Dan Bright <ufo.nul>
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 01:27:23 -0000
Fwd Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 16:46:55 -0500
Subject: Whittlesea Case Camera Info


Listers:

Some more information about the camera used to take this image
may be found here:

http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/DC240/DC240A.HTM

Particularly pertinent to analysis is that this camera has a
'sharpening' algorithm described as follows:

"Sharpness: Provides three options for sharpening or softening a
picture: Sharp: Highlights the edges contained within your
images so that they stand out more. Standard: Captures the image
and stores it as is with no changes to sharpness. Soft: Blurs
fine details so that they become "softer" and edges of objects
blend into the image."

The camera has a 'wide angle' mode, with an aperture range of
f/2.8-16 in 'wide angle'.

The review also states that "Standard working range for image
capture is between 20 inches (0.5 m) and infinity in wide angle
or telephoto mode" and that the lens "is almost totally free of
geometric distortion, across its full focal-length range."

Many thanks to Tony Cook of VUFORS (Victorian UFO Research
Society), who sent over this link. The media approached VUFORS
to investigate this case shortly after the image was made
public.

Tony informs me that he would be willing to approach Whittlesea
city council for further information and possibly visit the
site. To that end, if anyone has any questions you'd like
forwarded along with my own queries to the photographer by way
of Tony and Whittlesea council, please let me know either on-
 list or via email over the next few days (I plan to send my
'questionairre' by the end of the week). Naturally, I'll post
the response to the list as and when received.


Best to all,

Dan
--
ufo.nul
www.theunexplained.info







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                         Re: UK UFO Magazine - Parr

From: Chris Parr <cparr.nul>
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 02:34:22 -0000
Fwd Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 16:52:52 -0500
Subject: Re: UK UFO Magazine - Parr


I can understand the frustration from serious UK ufologists
regarding the contributions and viewpoints promoted by the UK
UFO magazine.

Let us remember that UK UFOMAG is a magazine - and for years has
been Knocking out at least 60% ETH material - 10% advertising -
5% astronomy 10% ufo reports - 10% historical UFO cases - 5%
UFO trivia, etc.

During the emergence of a new and unforeseen 'UFO culture, the
opportunistic and fortunate development of UK UFO Magazine" had
recognised the potential of The X-Files and had incorporated
the new belief system, whilst creating the alleged voice of UK
ufology.

As an aside - during the early 90's, many ufologists had a low
tolerance for the stance and views of Nick Pope... yet as a
later perspective, I believe Mr Pope has dumped the officialdom
bore trend and has become the committed and polished article and
a credit to the UFO/media representation. I also believe that
Nick will show genuine ufological colours and concentrate on his
ufological potential in UFO Revelations.

UFO magazine had a policy 'not to pay for evidence... I remember
Graham Birdsall being stung for copyright by Kiviat TV for 50
pounds)... for printing a still from footage from Kent 1999 (see
Chris Rolfe Kent Ufologist)

I have discussed UFO cases and incidents and issues with Mr
Birdsall over the years and the man never gave anybody a bad
word and supported Ufo studies to the hilt. Mr Birdsall was ETH
and supported the cause.

What evidence and who owns copyright?

I would expect experienced UFO authors/contributors footage
experts to know who owns the copyright and if you forward it
without consent then you may be exploited with your UFO evidence
footage


Chris Parr





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                         Re: The Illuminati - Gates

From: Robert Gates <RGates8254.nul>
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 01:29:50 EST
Fwd Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 18:09:14 -0500
Subject: Re: The Illuminati - Gates


>From: Eleanor White <eleanor.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 15:55:22 -0500
>Subject: Re: The Illuminati

>>From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 09:38:59 EST
>>Subject: Re: The Illuminati

><snip>

>>That was a suprise! I think our entire banking system
>>in the U.S. is bass-ackwards and man oh man is there some dirt
>>to be dug up.

>So did John F. Kennedy. He issued an order to print $4 billion
>in "U.S. Notes" as opposed to Federal Reserve Notes. Some say
>that's what got him killed.

>The problem with the Federal Reserve system, so say many
>researchers, is that it is a _private_ entity, owned by private
>bankers, which _lends_ money to the U.S. Government. This gives
>them _stranglehold_ power over the visible government. The Fed
>collects _interest_ which is an unnecessary expense, so say the
>researchers I hear regularly on the shortwave news and talk
>shows.

The Federal Reserver was created by an act of Congress... in
essence Congress shirked its Constitutional monetary
responsibility over to the Fed. The only way something is going
to change is by an act of congress, and Congress either
controled by the Democrats or Republicans is more then happy to
let the Fed run the show.

The real bottom line is our money is only worth something
because somebody in authority says it does, meaning its
no longer back by Gold/Silver. Every time you buy something
with your credit card, in essence you create money, and when
its paid back its decreated or so several bankers tell me.
Every time you collect interest on your savings and checking
account, you are doing the same thing the Fed does, i.e.
make money from money. When you really get right down
to it lots of so called money only exists as debits and or
credits on a spread sheet somewhere.

>This situation of private bankers lending to visible
>governments, thus gaining barely visible control, is replicated
>all over the world and has been for a long time.

>The tie-in to UFO secrecy is that you have wealthy and powerful
>people who control the visible governments, so pleading or
>demanding the full release of UFO information isn't going to
>happen if the private bankers decide it won't.

Bankers would tell you that they are above all of that. As I
recall Baron Rothchild said something like "If I control the
money of a nation, I care not about the politics" The bankers
couldn't care less about UFOs/ET unless of course it bears
directly onto the bank/money situtation

<snip>

>don't have either the first hand knowledge or the time to
>debate this, I'm just passing on what I hear all day every day
>from the shortwave shows.

Alot of what is on shortwave radio is drival at best, so extreme
care should be used when repeating it.


Cheers,

Robert







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                          Re: Space Ghost - Speiser

From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser.nul>
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 23:30:22 -0700
Fwd Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 18:11:28 -0500
Subject: Re: Space Ghost - Speiser


>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 12:47:11 -0500
>Subject: Re: Space Ghost

>>From: Louise A. Lowry <ShnSassy1.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 06:22:51 -0600
>>Subject: Space Ghost

>>Source: The Pitch - Kansas City

>>http://www.pitch.com/issues/2004-02-05/strip.html/1/index.html

>>February 12, 2004

>>Space Ghost
>>What if Bob Lindsay abducted an alien and no one cared?

>>As Told to Tony Ortega

>>feedback.nul

>>Talk about flyover country. Now even Kansas City's UFOs are
>>getting no respect.

>>It's been nearly three weeks since Bob Lindsay spotted something
>>falling out of the sky on a security monitor at the TriGen power
>>plant downtown.

>I wonder if this is Ortega is the same guy who did big hatchet
>job on Diletoso and the Phoenix Lights back in 1997 or 1998.

I happen to be investigating this now, mainly because Ortega is
an old acquaintance of mine. Based on his writing style, I would
say it is the same guy.

You do agree the hatchet job on Dilletoso, at least, was
deserved?


==JJS==









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                          Re: Magazine UK - Miller

From: Stuart Miller <Stuart.Miller4.nul>
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 10:25:34 -0000
Fwd Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 18:14:55 -0500
Subject: Re: Magazine UK - Miller


>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 20:00:40 -0500
>Subject: Re: Magazine UK

>>From: Stuart Miller <Stuart.Miller4.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 16:52:49 -0000
>>Subject: UFO Magazine UK

>>>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 12:19:57 -0500
>>>Subject: Re: BLURFOs

<snip>

>Speaking of UK phenomenologists whose work UFO Magazine has
>promoted, I wouldn't brag if I were you. Concerning one whose
>work the magazine has championed, Colin Andrews.: During the
>heyday of crop circles (before the fakers got them so complex,
>embroidered, and convoluted as to be credible only to the highly
>credulous), I telephoned Colin and left a message on his
>telephone offering to bring our project's whole array of cameras
>and instruments like the recording gravimeter and recording
>magnetometers and cameras over there to see what might be
>monitored. I said I might, in fact, just lone him instruments,
>shipping them to him, should that be of interest.

>Do you think Colin responded? Of course not, he preferred to
>have dowsers out in the fields with him! LMAO!

This is unbelievably rude of him and as a representative of a
publication that has employed Colin in the past, we would like
to accept full responsibility for his rudeness. We would also
like to accept full responsibility for World War II, for the
appalling punctuality of Virgin trains on the UK west coast
line, and for the Simpsons, which is often blasphemous.

>Concerning crop patterns, your magazine acts even worse, if
>that's possible. In your Volume 24, number 1, page 27,
>describing two highly dubious crop 'messages', as (and I quote):

"Ding". That is the first chime of an alarm bell going off in my
head. We do not number our magazine like that, unless you are
referring to a very old copy. In which case Ray, I wish to take
you to task for that very rude word you uttered 55 years ago to
that dear lady in the ice cream parlor when you were a young
child. How could you?

Are you sure you've got the right magazine?

>Guidance?!! How ridiculous. I have had some, IMO, possibly
>credible reports from British UFOlogers complaining about how
>Graham allegedly tried to put down anything in British UFOlogy
>that did not please him and his publishing effort. Hearsay, it's
>true, but baseless? I wonder whether there might have been some
>fire with the smoke.

People submit articles. They are not published for one reason or
another. Result? One grumpy writer who looks for an explanation
other than the fact that possibly the piece he submitted wasn't
up to standard.

>In a private letter to me (yesterday, February 21, 2004) you said:

I did not send you a private "letter" on the 21st. What I did do
was to send to you directly, as a curtesy, a copy of a reply to
your message on this List. I did this because I knew that my
reply would take something like ten to fifteen hours maybe to
appear on this List and I didn't want you to have to wait that
long to get a reply.

However, I did send you a private message yesterday, as I
promised I would in my reply. In it I asked if you would be good
enough to supply us with the date of the publication of the
particular issue that you allege contains the breach of
copyright. I have not had a reply to that yet and would
appreciate one please.

We cannot move forward here until you do this.


Stuart Miller







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               Aliens Exist Say Researchers & Audience Members

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 06:47:47 -0800
Fwd Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 18:19:34 -0500
Subject: Aliens Exist Say Researchers & Audience Members


Source: Arizona Daily WildCat

http://wildcat.arizona.edu/papers/97/103/01_6.html

February 24, 2004

Aliens exist, say researchers, abducted audience members

By Sarah Stanton
Arizona Daily Wildcat

Alien abductees and university professors who specialize in
extraterrestrial research gathered last night at University
Medical Center to share their out-of-this-world experiences.

UA professor Gary Schwartz emceed a free lecture titled
"Evidence for Extraterrestrial Life?"

More than 50 people attended the event, which featured two
documentaries and a question-and-answer session with two doctors
who believe that extraterrestrial life exists in some form.

Schwartz, the director of the UA's Human Energy Systems Lab,
said, "Our lab works in controversial areas, but the topic
tonight is extremely controversial."

Dr. Lynne Kitei, a cardiologist from Phoenix, recounted her
numerous UFO sightings and showed the audience a documentary
featuring her home video of the phenomena, titled "The Phoenix
Lights."

Kitei had her first UFO sighting in 1995. She was taking a bath
when her husband started screaming to her from their bedroom to
come see the unusual lights that were "hovering" outside the
window.

Kitei described the lights as "three amber orbs, each about 3 to
6 feet in diameter, about 50 to 75 feet above us, hovering in a
triangular formation."

She took video and still photos of the lights as they "dimmed
away."

Two years later, on March 13, 1997, Kitei said a mass UFO
sighting occurred in Phoenix and throughout Arizona. Up to
10,000 people saw the orbs of light that Kitei described as they
waited to see the Hale-Bopp comet.

Panic ensued as people called the police departments and fire
departments. No one knew what caused the unusual lights that
some described as being attached to some sort of ship that was
said to be more than a mile long, she said.

Kitei called Luke Air Force base and could not obtain any
information. She contacted the Phoenix Sky Harbor airport, where
one air traffic controller and one commercial pilot reported
seeing the lights. Nothing showed up on the radar.

The mystery went unsolved until 2000, when the National Guard
staged an air show to prove to the public that an Air Force
maneuver was behind the mysterious "Phoenix lights." They flew
planes with flares attached to them over the city to "re-enact"
the event.

But the people who had witnessed the real Phoenix lights,
including Kitei, were still skeptical.

Kitei contacted Schwartz, who was reluctant to take on the
subject.

"To tell you the truth, I didn't really want to see her," he
said.

But Schwartz found Kitei's evidence very convincing and said
that she was "alarmingly sane."

"I could not give up my intellectual integrity," he said.

Schwartz went on to write the foreword to Kitei's book.

Kitei also told the audience that she had a near-death
experience as a child, has also had out-of-body experiences and
believes she is telepathic.

The evening got more out-of-this-world as Dr. John Mack, a
professor of psychiatry at Harvard University, took the stage
with his documentary titled "Touched," which chronicles his
research on alien abductions.

Mack, who conducted extensive clinical analysis of supposed
abductees, said he did not find any psychological disturbances
that could account for their behavior.

One man said he was abducted by aliens and taken into their
spacecraft, where sperm samples were taken, and he was forced to
mate with an alien female.

A woman claimed to have mothered hybrid alien-human children.

Skepticism of these phenomena is widespread. Harvard conducted a
14-month investigation into Mack's research, concerned that he
was connecting Harvard with a subject controversial, according
to Mack's documentary.

But they did not take any action against Mack and ultimately
allowed him to continue his research.

There are also many people who believe these phenomena are real.
When Kitei asked how many people in the audience were
"believers," almost all of the people raised their hands.

One woman in the audience claimed to be an alien abductee
herself.

"I just wanted to say that I am an abductee, and the experience
has always been positive and exciting for me," she said.

Kitei said it is probable that intelligent extraterrestrial life
exists.

"Our solar system is relatively young. There may be beings that
are billions of years more advanced than we are. We may be
looking for FM on the AM dial," she said.

Schwartz said we as a culture need to stop denying reliable data
on controversial subjects.

"Shakespeare said, 'To be or not to be; that is the question.'
But for us, it's, 'To see or not to see; that is the question,"
he said.








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                 Embryos For Human Cloning Produced In Korea

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 06:51:32 -0800
Fwd Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 18:24:30 -0500
Subject: Embryos For Human Cloning Produced In Korea



Source: The Chosun Ilbo - Korea

http://english.chosun.com/w21data/html/news/200402/200402240004.html

Feb.24 2004

Clonaid Claims Embryos Needed for Human Cloning Produced in Korea

tThe controversial international cloning company, Clonaid has
announced they've produced the human embryos needed to clone
babies right here in Korea. The firm which was created by a UFO
cult known as the Raelians said Tuesday they have implanted human
embryos cloned in a South Korean research center into wombs.

Clonaid said these embryos were the ones used to create Eve, the
first-ever cloned human being in December 2002 and also to give
birth to their sixtht cloned baby boy in Australia early this
month. Clonaid declined to offer details of the research center
nor the cloning process. Experts here are skeptical about
Clonaid's latest claims, pointing out there are very few
institutions that are equipped with such high cloning technology.

They are criticizing the group for defaming the reputed work of
Doctor Hwang Woo-suk who recently led a research to extract stem
cells from cloned human embryos for the first time in the world.
The reaction is generally negative around the world with many
scientists doubtfult that Clonaid produced its sixth human clone
since the organization has failed to present DNA evidence to back
their claims. However, the validity issue aside, some researchers
voice caution, saying the incident serves as a reminder of the
present dangers posed by any study leading to the cloning of humans.









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                Re: NASA & Soviet Astronauts And UFOs - Oberg

From: James Oberg <joberg.nul>
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 10:34:15 -0600
Fwd Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 18:40:02 -0500
Subject: Re: NASA & Soviet Astronauts And UFOs - Oberg


>From: Giuliano Marinkovic <giuliano.marinkovic.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 15:01:01 +0100
>Subject: NASA & Soviet Astronauts And UFOs

>I am preparing new TV documentary about UFO incidents in Space
>where I want to give an objective look towards the controversy.

Email me directly at:

joberg at houston.rr.com

and visit my home page

http://www.jamesoberg.com

for many items which argue that most of these stories are easily
exposed as misunderstandings and hoaxes.

James Oberg






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                         Re: Apollo 16 Film - Oberg

From: James Oberg <joberg.nul>
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 10:56:02 -0600
Fwd Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 18:41:59 -0500
Subject: Re: Apollo 16 Film - Oberg


>From: Lan Fleming <lfleming5.nul>
>To: UFO Updates <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 14:05:43 -0600
>Subject: Apollo 16 Film [was: 1956 Lunar Path Light]

>Perhaps the "excuse" would be that there _were_ no witnesses.
>Mr. Oberg has said he interviewed the Apollo 16 astronauts and
>they didn't see anything, despite the fact that their camera did
>see something. As in the case of the STS-48 and STS-80 videos,
>the camera is the ONLY "witness."

By no means. Somebody who is looking at a scene and reports
there WAS no light hovering out there, is most certainly a
witness. By Fleming's definition, if in a crowd of twenty people
one points to the sky and cries, 'Look at the UFO', and the
others look up but see nothing, they don't COUNT as witnesses.
Preposterous, I'd say.

>Mr. Oberg has been giving out his opinion for free for quite
>some time now. One place he posted it is:

>http://www.edmitchellapollo14.com/wwwboard/messages/2094.html#followups

>What's puzzling to me is that his description of the Apollo 16
>film bears little resemblance to what is shown in the version
>available all over the place on the net.

One possibility is that I was viewing the original video from
the NASA film, and the Internet UFO sites have digitized,
scanned, re-centered, and possibly contrast-enhanced the image
to appeal to their viewing audience.


James Oberg






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   Feb > Feb 24

                     UFOs At Galileo Launch - Whitehead

From: Robert Whitehead <robwhiteheaduk.nul>
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 17:41:59 +0000
Fwd Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 18:45:10 -0500
Subject: UFOs At Galileo Launch - Whitehead


Dear All

A message to all UK List members with cable or satellite TV.

Tonight on the Discovery Science channel there is a programme
called 'On Jupiter' which is about the history of man's interest
in the giant planet.

About half way through the programme, just before the second ad
break, there is a shot of the launch of the Galileo probe. To
the right of the screen, and in a fraction of a second, at least
five huge, dark objects appear from far away in the distance and
shoot over the launch pad, fanning out as they go.

I think at least two of these objects appear to fly behind the
launching rocket, and then emerge from the other side of the
rocket some distance away.

Anyone else aware of this incident?

Anyway, get your video recorders ready, everyone!


Regards

Rob Whitehead








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   Feb > Feb 25

                Re: NASA & Soviet Astronauts And UFOs - Shell

From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 13:16:53 -0600
Fwd Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 02:13:38 -0500
Subject: Re: NASA & Soviet Astronauts And UFOs - Shell


>From: Giuliano Marinkovic <giuliano.marinkovic.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 15:01:01 +0100
>Subject: NASA & Soviet Astronauts And UFOs

>NASA & Soviet Astronauts And UFOs
>Alleged Incidents During Space Missions
>More Traces - Can Anyone Confirm This?

>NASA: Whats there?

>Mission Control calling Apollo 11...

>Apollo 11: These "Babies" are huge, Sir! Enormous!

>OH MY GOD! You wouldn't believe it!

>I'm telling you there are other spacecraft out there, Lined up
>on the far side of the crater edge! They're on the Moon watching
>us!


It's an old hoax. What they really said was:

HOUSTON: Tranquility, could you repeat?

Armstrong: Repeat, Houston, there are huge babies up here
approximately 2 klicks away.

Aldrin: They appear to be nine months to a year old, but from
where we're standing estimate they're around 20 to 30 meters
tall!

HOUTSON: Copy that, Tranqulitity. Do you see their parents
anywhere nearby?

Armstrong: Negative, Houston. But they may be on the other side
of the crater they're lined up along.

Aldrin: I think we'd see them, though. The parents would have to
be 10 times as big.

HOUSTON: Stand by, Tranquility, we're notifying experts at the
National Institute for Enormous Infants.

Armstrong: Roger, Houston. Maybe they'll know what to do. They
look peaceful now, but they could become fussy at any moment.

HOUSTON: Tranquility, be advised, look around for any kind of
rattle or blanket you can use to calm the babies if they become
agitated.

Aldrin: Roger, Houston. But what if they...

HOUSTON: Please repeat, Tranquility.

Aldrin: What if they need a diaper changed!!

Armstrong: That sure would be one giant poop for mankind!

HOUSTON: Very funny, Neil. Over.







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   Feb > Feb 25

                       UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 9 Number 8

From: John Hayes <webmaster.nul>
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 19:57:12 +0000
Fwd Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 02:41:53 -0500
Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 9 Number 8


Posted on behalf of Joseph Trainor.

<Masinaigan.nul>
==========================

      UFO ROUNDUP
Volume 9, Number 8
February 25, 2004
Editor: Joseph Trainor

E-mail: Masinaigan.nul
Website: http://www.ufoinfo.com/roundup/


TWO DEAD IN A BIZARRE
"FAYETTE FACTOR" CASE

      The Fayette Factor, plus Friday the Thirteenth,
proved to be a lethal combination in Lexington, Kentucky
(population 260,512) last week.
      "A domestic-violence shooting that spiraled into a
six-hour standoff killed a Lexington woman, a firefighter
and wounded at least three others yesterday (Friday,
February 13, 2004).  After hours of negotiations, police
blasted chemical agents into a home in rural southern
Fayette County," Kentucky.
(Editor's Note: The Fayette Factor refers to the
startlingly high incidence of paranormal events in the USA
associated with places named after the Marquis de
Lafayette.  For more, see UFO Roundup, volume 9, number 6,
"1977: The Fayette Factor," page 14.)
      "Pat Hutchinson, 45, was apprehended about 9:45 p.m.
He is accused of fatally shooting a woman in the house.
She is thought to be his wife of 13 years, Fontaine, 60."
      "The first black female Lexington firefighter ever--
and the third firefighter to die in the line of duty,
Brenda Cowan, 40, had just been promoted to lieutenant on
Tuesday," February 10, 2004.
      "Last night Fire Chief Bill Hendricks' eyes welled
with tears as he recalled pinning on her badge."
      "The other firefighter that was shot, Jim Sandford,
was in stable condition last night, said Lexington Fire
Dept. Major Greg Stapleton.  A third firefighter, Mike
Souder, suffered an apparent sprain and was treated and
released."
      "A Lexington police officer also was injured in a car
wreck traveling to the scene."
      "Hutchinson told the Herald-Leader that he shot
Fontaine and the paramedics because he was staging a coup
against human clones."
      "'You're about to see Armageddon,' said Hutchinson,
who spoke calmly about a vast conspiracy involving UFOs,
human clones and the CIA."
      "'I started with my wife,' he said, 'I shot her in
the head.  She's got a radio sticking in her skull.'"
      "Hutchinson talked to the Herald-Leader by phone
around 4:30 p.m. after the shootings.  A reporter trying
to reach neighbors called him by accident."
      "Yesterday's event began at 3:45 p.m. when emergency
units descended on the house at 8645 Adam Lane, near Exit
99 off (Interstate Highway) I-75 after a neighbor called,
reporting that a woman had been shot there, police said."
      "When Cowan and Sandford approached the home, they
were gunned down, police said."
      "Four other paramedics who were trapped inside their
vehicle asked for emergency response units to evacuate
them safely."
      "The area and the barricade was filled with dozens of
police, fire and emergency personnel."
      "Two helicopters landed on the interstate" highway.
"I-75 South was blocked at the Clays Ferry exit and at the
Athens-Boonesboro Road, stalling traffic for miles."
      "For the next few hours, police negotiated with the
man to come out of the house.  By 7:26 p.m., (electrical)
power was cut at the interstate, blackening the area
around his house.  The power cut took out floodlights
around his home and left one visible light on the front
porch."
      "About an hour later, police blasted six chemical
agents into the house, according to police conversation on
the monitor."
      "A separate party of officers, equipped with shotguns
and search dogs, headed for the woods surrounding the
house around 8:45 p.m.  They fired at least six more
rounds, according to the monitor.  Officers also reported
hearing coughing inside the house and running water."
      "Each time a (chemical) round was fired, the pop
echoed throughout the woods."
      "Hutchinson endured an hour and a half of the
chemical agents which irritate eyes, skin and nasal
passages."
      "At the University of Kentucky Hospital earlier that
evening, Mayor Teresa Isaac, Commonwealth's Attorney Ray
Larson and various city officials arrived.  Cowan was
pronounced dead at 5:35 p.m., about a half hour before the
coroner's van pulled up to the emergency room entrance."
      Brenda Cowan "was a Union County native and the
sister of former UK (University of Kentucky) basketball
star Fred Cowan."
      "Cowan's pastor, the Rev. Richard Gaines of
Consolidated Baptist Church, was consoling firefighters
yesterday evening in the Third Street station."
      "Fontaine Hutchinson, the woman thought to have been
killed at the house, found joy in simple things such as
cats, orchids and a brief stint with a storied band of
trapeze artists, the Flying Wallendas."
      Fontaine "cultivated wild and domestic orchids at her
home."
      "Fontaine was divorced from the late Lt. John Keene
Van Houten-Gurnes, a retired Lexington police officer who
died last year."  (See the Lexington, Ky. Herald-Leader
for February 14, 2004, "Bizarre dispute erupts.
Firefighter shot, killed," page 1.  Many thanks to Rose
Vrabel for this newspaper article.)
(Editor's Comment:  I'm just glad Kentucky police caught
this guy before "the voice in the refrigerator" told him
to take his guns and his Clone War to nearby Fayette
Mall.)


FIGHTER PLANES CHASE
UFOs IN CALIFORNIA?

      "Two Navy fighter jets rattled North Bay residents at
dusk Thursday," February 5, 2004, "roaring loudly while
flying tight circles over Petaluma (population 54,548)," a
suburb north of San Francisco, "for several minutes."
      "The F-18s came from Lemoore Naval Air Station, south
of Fresno, according to the Federal Aviation
Administration (FAA).  But FAA officials said they don't
know why the planes were in the Bay area."
      "Efforts to contact officials at Lemoore were
unsuccessful."
      According to ufologist Daniel Wilson, "On Friday,
February 6, 2004, at 6:36 p.m., a cigar-shaped UFO was
reported at Solvang (population 5,332), approximately 260
miles (416 kilometers) south of Petaluma."
      "'It was quite a show,' said Mike Gose, manager of
Petaluma's municipal airport.  'I'm going to get a lot of
calls about this.'"
      "Gose said he called the federal radar facility that
tracks aircraft in the region.  They said the flight was
authorized but wouldn't say what the planes were doing."
      "Walt Smith, the FAA's regional director, said an FAA
official in Petaluma reported the jets flying at medium
altitude--about 5,000 to 10,000 feet (1,500 to 3,000
meters)--in contrast to the witnesses who reported the
planes as low as 1,000 feet (300 meters)."
      "The planes roared over Petaluma at about 5:40 p.m.
and circled concentrically in opposite directions over
town.  They circled so tightly that at times they were
sideways, one pulsing its afterburner and leaving a bright
tail of flame behind."
      "Smith said the afterburner, not the altitude of the
jets, was the cause of the tremendous noise."
      "At about 5:45 p.m., the planes headed south and
disappeared."
      "Some residents said their houses shook from the roar
of the planes."
      "Unnerved callers were concerned that the fighters
could be tracking possible terrorist activity.  Others
initially thought a plane was crashing."
      "'They must have been trying to make a show of force
or something,' said resident Tom Burrows, 'I doubt
somebody would be practicing...over the treetops over the
town, just for the hell of it.'"
      "Petaluma police dispatchers were heard to tell
callers they had no explanation for the flyovers."
      "Judy Mazzeo and her husband thought a plane might be
crashing and ran outside to see the jets circling over
their Petaluma home."
      "'I really thought something terrible was happening,'
she said, 'It was practically like they were buzzing us.'"
      "Gose speculated that someone might have violated
restricted airspace before landing in Petaluma and the F-
18s were scrambled as a precaution.  A similar scenario
played out after the 9/11 terrorist attacks, when two
planes were followed by fighter jets into Petaluma.  The
fighters were checking out the two planes, one of which
flew too close to Travis Air Force Base in Fairfield
(population 96,178)."
      Mysterious sonic booms and air maneuvers were also
reported in southern California.
      "The shaking, rattling and booming that's been going
on around Barstow (population 21,119)," a small city 120
miles (200 kilometers) northeast of Los Angeles, "lately
is no cause for alarm, according to an Edwards Air Force
Base spokesman."
      "The unusual noises were the result of (U.S.) Air
Force jets flying at supersonic speeds in testing
corridors north of town.  John Haire, chief of media
relations at Edwards, said the base hasn't been doing many
more supersonic flights than usual but current weather
conditions could cause the sonic booms to carry more
easily."
      "The booms could be louder and more noticeable to
Barstow residents because it has been colder and more
moist recently, Haire said."
      "'It doesn't mean a test acceleration,' he said,
'It's just normal, routine-type stuff.'"
      "Pilots at Edwards fly new F/A-22 Raptors, as well as
F-15 and F-18 fighters that can fly at supersonic speeds,
in two designated flight corridors north of Barstow.  One
of these has its southern border about a mile from town,
Haire said."
      "In addition to Edwards, sonic booms could be
associated with other military installations in the area."
      "But Peggy Shoaf, a spokeswoman for the China Lake
Naval Air Weapons Station, said her base hasn't done any
supersonic flight testing lately."
      "As for any role Fort Irwin might have in recent
sonic booms, Major Chris Belcher, a spokesman for the
post, said the Army doesn't have supersonic aircraft."
      "Planes sometimes do fly at supersonic speeds at the
post, however, and Nellis Air Force Base in Nevada
coordinates such flights."
      "Air Force Master Sgt. Charles Ramey, a spokesman for
Nellis, identified Edwards as the most likely cause of
recent booms.  Ramey also echoed Haire's comments about
cold. moist air relaying the noise better than hot dry
air."  (See the Petaluma, Cal. Press-Democrat for February
6, 2004, "Two Navy F-18s roar and thunder over Petaluma,"
and for February 6, 2004, "Sonic booms shock, rattle
Barstow."  Many thanks to Daniel Wilson for these
newspaper articles.)


UFO ACTIVITY RISES IN
BRAZIL'S PANTANAL

      There has been a sharp upsurge of UFO sightings,
including daylight discs, in the Pantanal rain forest of
Brazil's southwestern state of Mato Grosso do Sul.
      According to Brazilian ufologist Brunilda Barros,
"Just over 100 cases have been catalogued by the Centro
Brasileiro des Pesquisas de Discos Voadores or CBPDV
(Translated: Brazilian Center for the Investigation of
Flying Saucers --J.T.)."
      "My cousin Maria Victoria and her family live in Tres
Lagoas," Brunilda reported, "And she says Mato Grosso do
Sul is an area of major UFO activity, specifically in the
(state) capital, Campo Grande, and the Pantanal."
      "The most recent UFO sightings were in Bela Vista and
Corumba.  Also, a number of motorists driving on the
(Highway) BR-262 between Aquiduana and Miranda saw round
luminous objects hovering above the palm trees.  A silver
disc was seen hovering in daylight over the Fazenda
Bodoquena (farm), just off the highway."
      "Daylight discs were also seen at the beginning of
February (2004) in the southern part of the state (Mato
Grosso do Sul--J.T.), especially by the people living
between Nova Alvorada do Sul and Dourados.  Other UFOs
were sighted in Seminario, Sidrolandia and in Tres Lagoas,
not far from the Fuerza Aerea Brasileira (Portuguese for
Brazilian Air Force--J.T.) base that protects Campo
Grande."  (Muito obrigado a Brunilda Barros por esos
casos.)


MYSTERY BOOM AND UFO
JOLT AREQUIPA, PERU

      "Peruvian scientists are puzzled by the cause of a
powerful earth tremor in the region of Arequipa," Peru's
second largest city, located in the Andes 1,000 kilometers
(600 miles) south-southeast of Lima, the national capital.
      "Supposedly, the boom and subsequent quake were
caused by 'an unidentified bright object.'  Dr. Armando
Minaya, chairman of the Geophysical Institute of Arequipa,
confirmed this assumption."
      "A powerful earthquake, measuring 3.5 on the Richter
scale, was reported in the mountain region near Arequipa
on Monday, February 2, 2004.  Local campesinos (field
workers--J.T.) informed the institute that they had seen
'a bright object plunging to the ground' midway up a
mountainside.  Witnesses claim they heard 'a major
explosion' and noticed smoke rising from the
mountainside."
      "A team of scientists were sent to the site of the
mysterious impact.  The scientists claimed that it might
have been a large meteorite, since there were no signs of
any earthquake damage in the immediate vicinity."  (See
the Peruvian newspaper La Republica for February 4, 2004.
Muchas gracias a Monica Gaetano de Silva para esto
articulo de diario.)


MYSTERY BOOMS HEARD BY
THOUSANDS IN INDIA

      "The director-general of the Institute of
Seimsological Research, Dr. Janardan Negi, has clarified
that the blasts being heard in parts of Saurashtra (state
in western India) during the past week were just
underground tremors."
      "Allaying people's fears, who suggested another major
earthquake in the making, Dr. Negi said the blasts were
caused by 'sonic booms' by overflying jet aircraft."
      "Two loud explosions were heard and a tremor was felt
in the Gondal, Jetpur and Rajkot regions, near Ahmedabad,
at 9:10 and 9:15 p.m. on the morning of (Wednesday)
January 28, 2004."
(Editor's Note:  Gondal, Jetpur and Rajkot are in the
Kathiawar Hills, located about 250 kilometers (150 miles)
west of Ahmedabad.)
      "Also there were reports from Jamanagar and Dwarka in
Saurashtra of loud reports at 10:15 and 10:20 a.m."
      "Recalling similar reports of explosive sounds that
appeared on September 22 (2003) in Ahmedabad, Gandhinagar
and various districts of the state, Dr. Negi said the
Indian Air Force (IAF) had admitted to them being 'sonic
booms' caused by low-flying fighter planes."
      "The IAF confirmed that noise from a boom could be
heard up to hundreds of kilometers away."
      "Although some of the shallow earthquakes could also
produce blasting sounds due to cracking or the movement of
rocks, it is quite different from the 'sonic booms' being
caused by jets, Dr. Negi said."
      "'In fact, the movement of rocks starts a sound wave
which can be further carried by the air,' Dr. Negi
explained, 'Such sounds generated by the earth are loud
and deep-sounding, emanating from inside the earth.'"
(See the Times of India for January 30, 2004, "Blasts in
Saurashtra due to 'sonic booms.'  Many thanks to Daniel
Wilson and Krishnari Bai Dharapurnanda for this newspaper
article.)


UFO PHOTOGRAPHED IN
PLYMOUTH, UK

      "A city-based photographer has captured an image" of
a UFO "while trying out his new hi-tech digital camera at
night."
      "It shows what can only be described as 'an
unidentified flying object' hovering about St. Budeaux,"
at Plymouth in the southwestern corner of UK.
      "Another, equally stunning snap shows the same
brightly-illuminated object tilted at a different angle."
      "UFO experts are highly delighted by the pictures,
and the Royal Navy today asked the Herald to supply them
with the photos--because they want to study them."
      "Plymouth-based ufologist Bob Boyd has called the
snaps among the "Best Five" pictures of a UFO he has ever
seen in 25 years of spotting the phenomenon."
      "Mr.Boyd, chairman of the Plymouth UFO Research
Group, said: 'It's the real thing.'"
      "He claimed the pictures had been examined by a
photographic expert who confirmed it was genuine."
      "The man who took the photographs, a dockyard worker
living in St. Budeaux, didn't realise what he had snapped
until he got home and inspected his photos."
      "A Plymouth City Airport spokesman said it was
'highly unlikely' it was a commercial flight.  Mr. Boyd
does not know of anybody else reporting the UFO but said:
'That doesn't mean nobody saw it.'"  (See the Plymouth
Herald for February 19, 2004, "UFO sighted over city."
Many thanks to Louise A. Lowry for this newspaper
article.)


BIG FEMA MANEUVERS
REPORTED IN TEXAS

      Large-scale maneuvers to combat terrorist activities
were conducted last week in Texas by the Federal Emergency
Management Agency (FEMA).
      "Simulated terrorist attacks and natural disasters
will erupt in Texas later this week as part of a national
homeland security preparedness drill."
      "The Texas exercise will feature a simulated
explosion of a portable nuclear weapon in Cotulla
(population 3,614)," a small town on Interstate Highway I-
35 about 100 miles (60 kilometers) south of San Antonio.
Plus "a simulated radiation leak at the Comanche Peak
power plant in Glen Rose (population 2,112)," a town at
the intersection of Highways 67 and 144, located about 40
miles (64 kilometers) southwest of Fort Worth.
      The third FEMA exercise consists of "a simulated
Category 4 hurricane in Corpus Christi, Tex. (population
277,454)" on the Gulf of Mexico.
      "The U.S. Northern Command is coordinating the drill,
set to occur Thursday and Friday (February 19 and 20,
2004).  It's been dubbed Operation Unified Defense 04."
      "Much of the drill will concentrate on command post
communication and coordination, not first responders in
the streets, and there will be little activity apparent to
the general public, said Col. Gene Pino of the U.S.
Northern Command."
      "'We hope and pray the day will never come that we
face a real disaster like the one we will be simulating,'
Governor Rick Perry said Tuesday (February 17, 2004),
announcing the exercise.  But if these kinds of
catastrophic events do occur, officials need to be
prepared to respond, he said."
      "The drills will involve more than 50 federal, state
and local organizations, mainly in Texas, Alaska,
Colorado, Virginia and the area around Washington, D.C.
Military personnel and the U.S. Department of Homeland
Security will be heavily involved."
      "One reason the tiny town of Cotulla (best known as
"The Heart of the Texas Brush Country"--J.T.) was chosen
as the site for the simulated deadly nuclear explosion is
its location along Interstate 35, between San Antonio and
Laredo.  Officials are working on ways to maximize
response capabilities in this region of the state, said
Jack Colley, head of the state (Texas) Division of
Emergency Management."
      "Elsewhere in south Texas, the hurricane simulation
will take place in Corpus Christi."  (Which, by the way,
is the birthplace of actress Farrah Fawcett--J.T.)
      "Jay Kimbrough, the governor's homeland security
director, said emergency planners are preparing for a
scenario in which terrorists might use a catastrophic
weather event as a cover or a diversion to launch a
terrorist act."
      "'It's these kinds of scenarios that are being played
out.  The idea is that catastrophic events could very well
be an opportunity for somebody to further complicate our
lives,' he said."  (See the Longview, Texas News-Journal
for February 18, 2004, "State taking part in homeland
security drill."  Many thanks to Jim Danvers for this
newspaper article.)


IKE AND THE ALIENS

      Fifty years ago, "on February 20, 1954, President
Dwight D. Eisenhower interrupted his vacation in Palm
Springs, California to make a secret nocturnal trip to a
nearby Air Force base to meet two extraterrestrial
visitors."
      "Or maybe not.  Maybe Ike just went to the dentist.
These's some dispute about this."
      "The Ike-met-with-ETs theory is advanced by Michael
Salla, a former American University professor who now runs
the Peace Ambassadors Program at AU's Center for Global
Peace."
      "The Ike-went-to-the-dentist theory is advanced by
the folks at the Dwight D. Eisenhower Library in Abilene,
Kansas (population 6,543).  And by James M. Mixson, a
dentist, professor of dentistry and historian of
presidential dental work."
      "Just to make things more interesting.  On the night
in question, the Associated Press reported this: 'Pres.
Eisenhower died tonight as a result of a heart attack in
Palm Springs.'"
      "Two minutes later, the AP retracted this bulletin
and reported that Ike was still alive."
      "Indeed, Ike was alive.  And he continued living
until 1969.  But in the decades since his death, his
activities on the night of February 20, 1954 have become
fodder for strange theories about alien beings."
      "Some facts are beyond dispute: Eisenhower was on a
golf vacation in Palm Springs on February 20, 1959.  After
dining that night, he made an unscheduled departure from
the Smoking Tree Ranch where he was staying.  The next
morning, he attended a church service in Los Angeles.
Also that morning, his spokesman announced to the press
that Ike had visited a dentist the previous night because
he'd chipped a tooth while eating a chicken wing at
dinner."
      "Salla, who has a Ph.D. in government from the
University of Queensland in his native Australia, doesn't
believe it.  He figures the dentist trip is just a cover
story.  He believes Ike went to Edwards Air Force Base
where he met with two ETs with white hair, pale blue eyes
and colorless lips."
      "These aliens--nicknamed 'Nordics' in UFO circles
because they resemble Scandinavian humans--traveled to
Edwards from another solar system in a flying saucer and,
Salla says, they spoke to Eisenhower."
      "'There was telepathic communication,' says Salla,
45, as he sits in his suburban Falls Church (Virginia)
living room.  'It's as though you're hearing a person but
they're not speaking.'"
      "The 'Nordics' offered to share their superior
technology and their spiritual wisdom with Ike if he would
agree to eliminate America's nuclear weapons."
      "'They were afraid we might blow up some of our
nuclear technology,' Salla says, 'and apparently this does
something to time and space and it impacts on ET races on
other planets.'"
      "Ike declined the ETs' offer, Salla says, because he
did not want to give up the nukes."
      "Sometime later in 1954, Ike reached a deal with
another race of ETs, known as 'the Greys' (Zeta
Reticulans--J.T.), allowing them to capture earthling
cattle and humans for medical experiments, provided that
they returned the humans safely home.  Since then, Salla
says, the 'Greys' have kidnapped 'millions' of humans."
      "Salla, author of The Hero's Journey Through a Second
American Century, published his extraterrestrial theories
in a new book, Exopolitics: Indications of the
Extraterrestrial Presence, and an article on his
'Exopolitics' Web site."
(Editor's Note:  UFO Roundup readers can access Salla's
Web site at http://www.exopolitics.org)
      "For much of the 1990s, Salla studied conflict
resolution and tried unsuccessfully to apply this
knowledge to prevent war in East Timor and the Balkans, he
says.  Frustrated, he began looking for an ET connection
to human misery and, he says, he found evidence of ET
visitations--including the Ike encounter--on the
Internet."
      "Meanwhile, he taught at the School of International
Service at American University.  In 2003, he founded the
university's Peace Ambassadors Program, described on AU's
Web site as 'a summer program that combines study,
meditative practices and prayer ceremonies at related
Washington D.C. sites aimed at promoting individual self-
empowerment and Divine Governance in Washington, D.C.'"
      "Salla stresses that his ET research is not connected
with his work at AU's Center for Global Peace.  The folks
at the Center for Global Peace are also quite eager to
stress this fact."
      "Meanwhile, the question remains: Did Ike really meet
with extraterrestrials fifty years ago?"
      "'Not to our knowledge,' says Jim Leyerzapf, an
archivist at the Eisenhower Library.  'There's nothing in
the archives to indicate that.'"
      "Then Leyerzapf burst out laughing."
      "He has heard these things before.  'We've had so
many requests on this subject that we have a person who
specializes in this.'"
      "That person is archivist Herb Pankratz."
      "'He specialized in transportation,' Leyerzapf says,
'and we decided to add UFOs to that.  He does trains,
planes, automobiles--and flying saucers.'"
      "The library fielded dozens of questions about the
alleged Ike/ET meeting in the late 1980s and early 1990s,
when several UFO books advanced the theories, Pankratz
says."
      "'It's interesting how these stories have changed,'
Pankratz noted in an email.  'Initially, the accounts
claimed the president made a secret trip to Edwards Air
Force Base to view the remains of aliens who had crashed
at Roswell, N.M. in 1947.  Later stories then claimed he
had actually visited with live aliens."
      "Pankratz doesn't buy either theory.  He believes the
dentist story, and he cites James Mixson, the dentist
historian and professor at the University of Missouri--
Kansas City School of Dentistry.  Mixson's article, 'A
History of Dwight D. Eisenhower's Dental Health,' was
published in the November 1995 issue of the Bulletin of
the History of Dentistry" and "is the definitive work on
Ike's teeth."
      "Citing the U.S. Surgeon General's records on Ike's
medical and dental history, opened to researchers in 1991,
Mixson  reported that on the fateful night of February 20,
1954, Ike chipped the porcelain cap of his 'upper left
central incisor' and it was repaired by Dr. Francis A.
Purcell D.D.S."
      "Alas, Dr. Purcell is unavailable for comment.  He
died in 1974, according to Pankratz."
      "The lack of a dental record from Purcell's office,'
Mixson wrote, 'has helped fuel belief in this UFO
encounter.'"
      "But Mixson added quickly, 'the President had well-
documented difficulties with this crown.'"
      "Indeed, the crown, which was installed in July 1952,
was chipped and repaired in December 1952, the February in
question and again in July 1954 when the president's
dentist, Col. James M. Fairchild, replaced it with a 'slim
thin-cast gold-platinum thimble crown.'"
      "That may be more than you ever wanted to know about
Ike's dental work.  If not, Mixson goes on at some length,
quoting a long, lyrical passage written by Col. Fairchild
on this troublesome presidential incisor."
      "Meanwhile, there's another perplexing question: Why
did the AP report that Ike died that night?'"
(Editor's Comment:  Good question!  Especially since Ike
suffered a very real heart attack the following year--in
1955.)
      "'Somebody was fooling around and it went out,'
Pankratz says, 'It wasn't supposed to go out but it did.'"
      "Ike never made any public statement about meeting
ETs, Pankratz says.  But did he perhaps spill the beans to
his family?"
      "Ike's son, John S.D. Eisenhower, is a retired Army
bigadier general and author of several books on history,
including General Ike: A Personal Reminiscence."
      "Asked via email if his father had ever mentioned
meeting with aliens, Eisenhower responded with a short but
emphatic reply: 'No.'"
      "He declined to comment further."  (See the
Washington Post for February 19, 2004, "Ike and the Alien
Ambassadors."  Many thanks to Jim Hickman for forwarding
this newspaper article.  And be sure to check out Jim's
Web site, The Hickman Report, at
http://www.thehickmanreport.com)
(Editor's Comment:  Here's my theory on what happened.
During the meeting at Edwards, President Eisenhower, a
notorious ladies man, got a little fresh with Jelu the
space princess.  Jelu whirled and punched him in the
mouth.  That's how the porcelain crown got chipped.  The
Secret Service went and fetched Dr. Purcell, who treated
the president at the air base.  That's why there's no
patient record in Dr. Purcell's office files.  As for the
phony AP "heart attack" bulletin.  That was a pre-prepared
cover story to be released if the aliens had flown away
with Ike and the U.S. government been forced to explain
the president's sudden disappearance.)


GEOLOGISTS INTRIGUED
BY MARTIAN SOIL

      "The first look beneath the Martian surface has shown
that the soil composition changes dramatically with depth
and hints that trace amounts of water have been present
recently or may even be there now, researchers said
Thursday," February 19, 2004.
      "The Opportunity rover has spent the past three days
examining a 4-inch (10-centimeter) deep trench it created
with its front wheel in Meridiani Planum.  While the
spectroscopic data has not yet been beamed back to Earth,
microscopic images have presented new puzzles for the team
at the Jet Propulsion Center in Pasadena, California, to
contemplate while they wait for the data."
      "Pictures of the wall of the trench show it is
composed of sand-sized grains of red rock cemented
together.  The cement could have been forced by minute
amounts of water rising to the surface, bringing with it
salts that would act as a cement, said JPL geologist
Albert Yen."
      "The pictures of the wall show that small spheres
present on the surface--nicknamed Martian blueberries--are
also present underground, embedded in the matrix of the
soil.  To the team's surprise, however, the underground
spheres are brighter and shinier than those on the
surface."
      "'We're not sure what is going on here,' Yen said."
      "The bottom of the trench, in contrast, is so finely
grained that individual grains do not show up in the
microscopic images, Yen said."
      "Halfway around Mars at Gusev Crater, the Spirit
rover wriggled its wheels slightly on the surface,
revealing the top layer of soil to be much stickier than
expected."
      "'The surface layer is different from the layer
underneath it,' said geologist Dave Des Marais of NASA's
Ames Research Center, 'and some stuck to the wheel.  We're
very interested in why the surface material is sticky.'"
      "To take a better look," the JPL team used "Spirit's
front wheel Saturday," February 21, 2004 "to excavate a
trench similar to that produced by Opportunity."
      On Sunday, February 22, 2004, "Spirit was sending
back data from the 3-inch (7.5-centimeter) trench it
studied with a microscopic imager and a Mossbauer
spectrometer, an instrument that measures the composition
and abundance of iron-bearing minerals."
      "Scientists hope the minerals show whether the Red
Planet's environment once held water to support life."
      "Spirit is expected to begin driving today (Monday,
February 23, 2004) toward the crater Bonneville."  (See
the Duluth, Minn. News-Tribune for February 20, 2004,
"Rovers' images hint at trace amounts of water on Mars,"
page 5A; and USA Today for February 23, 2004, "Rover
searches trench for water on Mars," page 3A.)


READER FEEDBACK:

SAW MYSTERY VAN IN PENSACOLA,
FLORIDA BACK IN 2002

      Concerning the mysterious silver-grey van cruising
around the USA, reader Maxx writes, "I airbrush T-shirts
around the country for a living, and a year and a half
ago, I saw your silver mystery van in a flea market just
east of Pensacola, Florida."
      "I don't see what the big deal is.  I even talked to
the guy who owns it.  He sells military surplus stuff,
i.e. patches and clothing and what-not.  He's an older
guy, probably early sixties, has a salt-and-pepper beard,
and a bit paunchy around the middle.  Nice guy, all in
all."
      "I asked him about his unusual array.  A lot of it, I
might add, didn't exactly look legitimate.  And he said
it's a hobby of his.  I asked him if he's seen anything,
and he replied, 'Of course.'"
      "There was a lot of radio equipment in there, as
well.  I also might add that there are a couple of pretty
nice flea markets and swap meets in the Phoenix (Arizona)
area--Greyland Park and Shop and Mercado on, I think, 53rd
Street.  Try looking for this guy there."
(Editor's Comment:  Maxx, your description sounds like the
"Lone UFO Hunter" who's been seen behind the wheel of the
van.  It strengthens the argument that the van's owner is
simply an unusual hobbyist.  But then UFO Roundup gets
letters like the following...)


MORE THAN ONE VAN IN ARIZONA?

      Concerning the same topic (See UFO Roundup, volume 9,
number 5 for February 4, 2004, "Mystery van seen by many
in Arizona," page 4), Mike Fortson writes, "I mailed my
friend in Prescott Valley, Arizona the picture of the van
shown on the (UFO INFO Web) site and the brief story about
two weeks ago.  She claims there were no windows on the
passenger side of the van.  Also, there were more
'satellite dishes,' four to be exact.  And also, there was
a strange-looking antenna that resembled a refrigerator
coil that was approximately four feet (1.3 meters) tall."
      "She claims the van pictured is NOT the van she saw
that day."


      Well, that's it for this week.  Join us in seven days
for more UFO, Fortean and paranormal news from around the
planet Earth, brought to you by "the paper that goes home-
-UFO Roundup."  See you next time.

UFO ROUNDUP: Copyright 2004 by Masinaigan Productions, all
rights reserved.  Readers may post news items from UFO
Roundup on their Web sites or in news groups provided that
they credit the newsletter and its editor by name and list
the date of issue in which the item first appeared.

E-Mail Reports to: Joseph Trainor <Masinaigan.nul>
or use the Sighting Report Form at:

http://www.ufoinfo.com/forms/form_sighting.htm

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Website comments: John Hayes <webmaster.nul>

UFOINFO: http://www.ufoinfo.com

Official Archives for UFO Roundup, AUFORN Australian
UFO Reports and Experiences, UFO + PSI Magazine
plus archives of Humanoid Sighting Reports (Albert
Rosales), Filer's Files, Oz Files, UFO News UK.
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   Feb > Feb 25

                       Re: When UFOs Arrive - Kimball

From: Paul Kimball <Kimballwood.nul>
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 16:56:04 EST
Fwd Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 02:43:08 -0500
Subject: Re: When UFOs Arrive - Kimball


>From: Stephen MILES Lewis <ufoupdates.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 18:32:02 -0600
>Subject: When UFOs Arrive

>Source: Popular Mechanics

Stephen:

Thanks for this interesting article.

<snip>

>A proposed welcoming committee:

>The International Academy of Astronautics in Paris maintains a
>list of volunteers willing to help world governments if ET
>arrives. Most are astronomers. Here is the team that PM would
>prefer to see on the job. Shown counterclockwise from the center
>are:  Sen. John Glenn, American Representative. As the first
>American to orbit the Earth and an elected political leader, the
>senator is the obvious choice to lead the American delegation.
>Frank Drake, Science Officer. Creator of the Drake Equation and
>a driving force behind the SETI project, Drake would represent
>the world's scientific community. Hal Puthoff, Powerplant
>Engineering. An expert on zero-point energy, a means of
>extracting limitless power from the quantum vacuum without
>violating the known laws of physics, Puthoff would understand
>how ET powers its craft.

Blah blah blah... if we really want to show-off, we'd send out
Sharon Stone (I'm dating myself here)- smart and beautiful.
Perhaps Bruce Willis too - just in case ET got out of hand.

<snip>

>Skeptics often ask why UFO sightings seem to take place only in
>remote locations instead of on busy city streets. Perhaps ET
>knows what earthlings have in mind when it lands.

Indeed - perhaps they know because they've already had some
first hand experience!


Paul Kimball







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                   Re: Whittlesea Case Camera Info - Velez

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 17:36:01 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 02:44:39 -0500
Subject: Re: Whittlesea Case Camera Info - Velez


>From: Dan Bright <ufo.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 01:27:23 -0000
>Subject: Whittlesea Case Camera Info

>Listers:

>Some more information about the camera used to take this image
>may be found here:

>http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/DC240/DC240A.HTM

>Particularly pertinent to analysis is that this camera has a
>'sharpening' algorithm described as follows:

>"Sharpness: Provides three options for sharpening or softening a
>picture: Sharp: Highlights the edges contained within your
>images so that they stand out more. Standard: Captures the image
>and stores it as is with no changes to sharpness. Soft: Blurs
>fine details so that they become "softer" and edges of objects
>blend into the image."

>The camera has a 'wide angle' mode, with an aperture range of
>f/2.8-16 in 'wide angle'.

>The review also states that "Standard working range for image
>capture is between 20 inches (0.5 m) and infinity in wide angle
>or telephoto mode" and that the lens "is almost totally free of
>geometric distortion, across its full focal-length range."

>Many thanks to Tony Cook of VUFORS (Victorian UFO Research
>Society), who sent over this link. The media approached VUFORS
>to investigate this case shortly after the image was made
>public.

Hi Dan,

You wrote:

>Tony informs me that he would be willing to approach Whittlesea
>city council for further information and possibly visit the
>site. To that end, if anyone has any questions you'd like
>forwarded along with my own queries to the photographer by way
>of Tony and Whittlesea council, please let me know either on-
>list or via email over the next few days (I plan to send my
>'questionairre' by the end of the week). Naturally, I'll post
>the response to the list as and when received.

Wow! This is a great opportunity. Thank you.

I have a couple of questions, please:

1. Where in the sky was the sun when he snapped the photo of the
crossing?

2. How far does he estimate he was standing from the flashing RR
signs?

3. What 'mode' was the camera and lens set to when he took the
snapshot.

Thanks again, Dan. This is a tremendous service you are
performing for us. Nice follow-up, and very good work, man!

Regards, look forward to your post with (hopefully) answers
right from the horses own mouth.  ;)


John Velez









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              Re: NASA & Soviet Astronauts And UFOs - Lehmberg

From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg.nul>
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 17:50:57 -0600
Fwd Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 02:46:23 -0500
Subject: Re: NASA & Soviet Astronauts And UFOs - Lehmberg


>From: James Oberg <joberg.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 10:34:15 -0600
>Subject: Re: NASA & Soviet Astronauts And UFOs

>>From: Giuliano Marinkovic <giuliano.marinkovic.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 15:01:01 +0100
>>Subject: NASA & Soviet Astronauts And UFOs

>>I am preparing new TV documentary about UFO incidents in Space
>>where I want to give an objective look towards the controversy.

>Email me directly at:

>joberg at houston.rr.com

>and visit my home page

>http://www.jamesoberg.com

>for many items which argue that most of these stories are easily
>exposed as misunderstandings and hoaxes.

>James Oberg


...And make a huge block of salt available for the exercise, Mr.
Marinkovic. Verily.

Lehmberg.nul

EXPLORE "AlienViewGroup" at its HostPros URL.
http://www.alienview.net


JOHN FORD RESTORATION FUND -- John will be released eventually.
He'll need a tax free cash stake to get on his feet. Let's put
one together for him; the bigger it is -- the more attention
he gets. It could have been you. E-mail for detail.
$450.00 pledged -- $200.00 collected!

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite.
What others see from afar, I leave far behind me."
- Giordano Bruno, scourged by the scabrously specious scurrilous.








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                         Re: Space Ghost - Davenport

From: Peter B. Davenport - NUFORC <director.nul>
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 16:18:56 -0800
Fwd Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 02:57:31 -0500
Subject: Re: Space Ghost - Davenport


>From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 23:30:22 -0700
>Subject: Re: Space Ghost

>>From: Louise A. Lowry <ShnSassy1.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 06:22:51 -0600
>>Subject: Space Ghost

>>Source: The Pitch - Kansas City

>>http://www.pitch.com/issues/2004-02-05/strip.html/1/index.html

>>February 12, 2004

>>Space Ghost
>>What if Bob Lindsay abducted an alien and no one cared?

>>As Told to Tony Ortega

>>feedback.nul

>>Talk about flyover country. Now even Kansas City's UFOs are
>>getting no respect.

>>It's been nearly three weeks since Bob Lindsay spotted something
>>falling out of the sky on a security monitor at the TriGen power
>>plant downtown.


>I wonder if this is Ortega is the same guy who did big hatchet
>job on Diletoso and the Phoenix Lights back in 1997 or 1998.

>I happen to be investigating this now, mainly because Ortega is
>an old acquaintance of mine. Based on his writing style, I would
>say it is the same guy.

>You do agree the hatchet job on Dilletoso, at least, was
>deserved?


To the List:

I just e-mailed a response to Tony Ortega regarding the alleged
sighting over Kansas City. In his article, he states the
following: "Despite putting up notices of the sighting on two
different UFO Web sites, Lindsay's had no inquiries whatever
from UFO researchers - and his messages on the two sites have
both disappeared!"

I write to set the record straight, since NUFORC did receive on
January 28th what I presume was Mr. Lindsay's report of his
sighting, and we have had it posted to our site since January
31st. The reason no one contacted him from here is that he
provided absolutely no personal or contact information in his
report, and the sighting was two weeks olde, by the time he got
around to reporting it! Moreover, we have yet to see any of the
video he allegedly captured of the object.

I do not know what Mr. Lindsay witnessed, but given my
experience with reports of this nature, i.e. at either dawn or
dusk, I would want to rule out a high-altitude jet with
contrails behind it, before concluding that the witness had
observed a "bona fide" UFO.


Peter B. Davenport
NUFORC - National UFO Reporting Center








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                        Re: Apollo 16 Film - Fleming

From: Lan Fleming <lfleming5.nul>
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 19:04:04 -0600
Fwd Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 03:20:51 -0500
Subject: Re: Apollo 16 Film - Fleming


>From: James Oberg <joberg.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 10:56:02 -0600
>Subject: Re: Apollo 16 Film

>>From: Lan Fleming <lfleming5.nul>
>>To: UFO Updates <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 14:05:43 -0600
>>Subject: Apollo 16 Film [was: 1956 Lunar Path Light]

>>Perhaps the "excuse" would be that there _were_ no witnesses.
>>Mr. Oberg has said he interviewed the Apollo 16 astronauts and
>>they didn't see anything, despite the fact that their camera did
>>see something. As in the case of the STS-48 and STS-80 videos,
>>the camera is the ONLY "witness."

>By no means. Somebody who is looking at a scene and reports
>there WAS no light hovering out there, is most certainly a
>witness. By Fleming's definition, if in a crowd of twenty people
>one points to the sky and cries, 'Look at the UFO', and the
>others look up but see nothing, they don't COUNT as witnesses.
>Preposterous, I'd say.

What's preposterous is how Oberg struggles to equate someone
claiming to see a UFO in a crowd of people who didn't see
anything with a film _showing_ something that the photographer
didn't happen to notice. The object (or whatever) was only
visible for a little over two seconds in the version available
on the net and it could have easily been missed by the
photographer.

>>Mr. Oberg has been giving out his opinion for free for quite
>>some time now. One place he posted it is:

>>http://www.edmitchellapollo14.com/wwwboard/messages/2094.html#followups

>>What's puzzling to me is that his description of the Apollo 16
>>film bears little resemblance to what is shown in the version
>>available all over the place on the net.

>One possibility is that I was viewing the original video from
>the NASA film, and the Internet UFO sites have digitized,
>scanned, re-centered, and possibly contrast-enhanced the image
>to appeal to their viewing audience.

Another possibility is that Oberg didn't look at the Apollo 16
film very carefully. He seems to have had a similar problem with
his "analysis" of the STS-48 video.

The the object in the digitized version of the Apollo 16 film is
near the center of the view only at the beginning of the
sequence before the camera pans across the lunar horizon and at
the end when it pans back in the other direction. The lunar
horizon wouldn't be visible on both sides of the object if the
film had been "re-centered" for digitizing, as Oberg speculates
wildly.








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                         Re: Magazine UK - Stanford

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 20:51:13 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 08:26:55 -0500
Subject: Re: Magazine UK - Stanford


>From: Stuart Miller <Stuart.Miller4.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 10:25:34 -0000
>Subject: Re: Magazine UK

>>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 20:00:40 -0500
>>Subject: Re: Magazine UK

<snip>

>>Do you think Colin responded? Of course not, he preferred to
>>have dowsers out in the fields with him! LMAO!
>>Concerning crop patterns, your magazine acts even worse, if
>>that's possible. In your Volume 24, number 1, page 27,
>>describing two highly dubious crop 'messages', as (and I quote):

>"Ding". That is the first chime of an alarm bell going off in my
>head. We do not number our magazine like that, unless you are
>referring to a very old copy.

Stuart,

You don't know your own magazine! I was quoting from the cover
that clearly states, "Volume 24, No. 1", which I had just
purchased for that purpose from the local bookstore-news stand.
I was quoting the printing of the volume and issue numbers as
stated to the upper right side of the cover of that January,
2004, issue.

I suggest you look at it yourself and apologize for your errant
haste. I would remind you that the cover features a trisket
(three-armed) crop circle, a photo of Tory leader Michael
Howard, mention that "Fleetwood Lights Return!", and, also,
"Abduction Research Funding Approved", etc. Sound familiar?

A lack of research seems typical of you and, IMO, your magazine.


Ray Stanford








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                        Re: Apollo 16 Film - Stanford

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 21:27:15 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 08:31:15 -0500
Subject: Re: Apollo 16 Film - Stanford


>From: James Oberg <joberg.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 10:56:02 -0600
>Subject: Re: Apollo 16 Film

>>From: Lan Fleming <lfleming5.nul>
>>To: UFO Updates <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 14:05:43 -0600
>>Subject: Apollo 16 Film [was: 1956 Lunar Path Light]

>>Perhaps the "excuse" would be that there _were_ no witnesses.
>>Mr. Oberg has said he interviewed the Apollo 16 astronauts and
>>they didn't see anything, despite the fact that their camera did
>>see something. As in the case of the STS-48 and STS-80 videos,
>>the camera is the ONLY "witness."

>By no means. Somebody who is looking at a scene and reports
>there WAS no light hovering out there, is most certainly a
>witness. By Fleming's definition, if in a crowd of twenty people
>one points to the sky and cries, 'Look at the UFO', and the
>others look up but see nothing, they don't COUNT as witnesses.
>Preposterous, I'd say.

>>Mr. Oberg has been giving out his opinion for free for quite
>>some time now. One place he posted it is:

>>http://www.edmitchellapollo14.com/wwwboard/messages/2094.html#followups

>>What's puzzling to me is that his description of the Apollo 16
>>film bears little resemblance to what is shown in the version
>>available all over the place on the net.

>One possibility is that I was viewing the original video from
>the NASA film, and the Internet UFO sites have digitized,
>scanned, re-centered, and possibly contrast-enhanced the image
>to appeal to their viewing audience.

Jim,

You seem to be trying to lead (or else mislead?) us to presume
that you viewed the original.

Yet, I cannot help but notice that you do not actually tell us
that you did so. Only a "possibility",huh?!

As fair witnesses to your statement, we cannot be sure of what
you're actually saying.

So please clarify: Did you or didn't you? Yes or no.

If so, where, when, and under what circumstance did you view the
original, and were there any witnesses present who you could
name to substantiate your claim?


Ray Stanford








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                       Re: UK UFO Magazine - Stanford

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 00:08:49 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 08:34:38 -0500
Subject: Re: UK UFO Magazine - Stanford


>From: Chris Parr <cparr.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 02:34:22 -0000
>Subject: Re: UK UFO Magazine

>I can understand the frustration from serious UK ufologists
>regarding the contributions and viewpoints promoted by the UK
>UFO magazine.
>
>Let us remember that UK UFOMAG is a magazine - and for years has
>been Knocking out at least 60% ETH material - 10% advertising -
>5% astronomy 10% ufo reports - 10% historical UFO cases - 5%
>UFO trivia, etc.

>During the emergence of a new and unforeseen 'UFO culture, the
>opportunistic and fortunate development of UK UFO Magazine" had
>recognised the potential of The X-Files and had incorporated
>the new belief system, whilst creating the alleged voice of UK
>ufology.

>As an aside - during the early 90's, many ufologists had a low
>tolerance for the stance and views of Nick Pope... yet as a
>later perspective, I believe Mr Pope has dumped the officialdom
>bore trend and has become the committed and polished article and
>a credit to the UFO/media representation. I also believe that
>Nick will show genuine ufological colours and concentrate on his
>ufological potential in UFO Revelations.

>UFO magazine had a policy 'not to pay for evidence... I remember
>Graham Birdsall being stung for copyright by Kiviat TV for 50
>pounds)... for printing a still from footage from Kent 1999 (see
>Chris Rolfe Kent Ufologist)

>I have discussed UFO cases and incidents and issues with Mr
>Birdsall over the years and the man never gave anybody a bad
>word and supported Ufo studies to the hilt. Mr Birdsall was ETH
>and supported the cause.

>What evidence and who owns copyright?

>I would expect experienced UFO authors/contributors footage
>experts to know who owns the copyright and if you forward it
>without consent then you may be exploited with your UFO evidence
>footage

Hi Chris,

I'm not sure if you were addressing me when you asked, "What
evidence and who owns copyright?", but in case you were asking
about the illustrations from my Socorro book that Graham
Birdsall ran in an issue of UFO Magazine several years ago, it
is I who own the copyright, whether we're talking about the U.S.
edition (a hardcover) or the U.K. edition (a mass-market soft
cover), as clearly stated in the front material.

No part of that book was ever sent or offered to Graham (or
anyone else) for use in his magazine by me or any agent of mine.

What was illegally used were the carefully drawn illustrations
from my Socorro book, drawn with care and accuracy right down to
every terrain detail (and even vegetation), based on photos I
had taken at the landing site soon after the event.

Nothing was even said in the UFO Magazine (UK) article carrying
them, as to the source of the illustrations or naming me as the
copyright owner. No permission was sought of me or my agent.

Who owns copyright? I suggest you read a good book on copyright
law or at least look it up on the internet. Every edition of my
Socorro book carried my copyright statement, but now one need
not even present such a statement (although it is legally
advisable) to be covered under the law.

I have no 'bone to pick' about what kind of person Graham
Birdsall was, and many clearly liked him, while some others did
not. (Who among us is liked by all?) But I hope you will admit
that using anyone's copyrighted material without permission and
with no attribution is not proper behavior and highly illegal.
Of course, I don't know whether he did that in any other case,
but his having done so with my material gives justifiable cause
to wonder.

Of course if one feels an end justifies the means, I suppose it
is possible to justify anything. I don't happen to buy that kind
of philosophy.


Ray Stanford








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   Feb > Feb 25

                          Re: Space Ghost - Speiser

From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser.nul>
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 22:33:59 -0700
Fwd Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 08:36:59 -0500
Subject: Re: Space Ghost - Speiser


>From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 23:30:22 -0700
>Subject: Re: Space Ghost

>>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 12:47:11 -0500
>>Subject: Re: Space Ghost

>>>From: Louise A. Lowry <ShnSassy1.nul>
>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 06:22:51 -0600
>>>Subject: Space Ghost

>>>Source: The Pitch - Kansas City

>>>http://www.pitch.com/issues/2004-02-05/strip.html/1/index.html

>>>February 12, 2004

>>>Space Ghost
>>>What if Bob Lindsay abducted an alien and no one cared?

>>>As Told to Tony Ortega

>>>feedback.nul

>>>Talk about flyover country. Now even Kansas City's UFOs are
>>>getting no respect.

>>>It's been nearly three weeks since Bob Lindsay spotted something
>>>falling out of the sky on a security monitor at the TriGen power
>>>plant downtown.

>>I wonder if this is Ortega is the same guy who did big hatchet
>>job on Diletoso and the Phoenix Lights back in 1997 or 1998.

>I happen to be investigating this now, mainly because Ortega is
>an old acquaintance of mine. Based on his writing style, I would
>say it is the same guy.

Identity confirmed. Ortega, Anthony, formerly of Phoenix New
Times, author of Phoenix Lights/Dilletoso Hatchet Job.


==JJS==








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                              V-Shaped Objects?

From: Amy Hebert <vanguard.nul>
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 00:32:59 -0600
Fwd Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 08:59:57 -0500
Subject: V-Shaped Objects?


Below is a link to an interesting article a friend sent to me
about "V-shaped" objects being launched from Texas.

http://www.defensetech.org/archives/000742.html


A. Hebert








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                            'Multiverse' Theories

From: Terry W. Colvin <fortean1.nul>
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 00:18:18 -0700
Fwd Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 09:02:26 -0500
Subject: 'Multiverse' Theories


http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1047755,00.html

According to 'multiverse' theorists, life as we know it could be
nothing but a Matrix-style simulation

Paul Davies
Tuesday September 23, 2003
The Guardian

The Copernican principle - that our location in space is
unremarkable - is the default assumption for most scientists.
But recently this principle has been challenged by a group of
cosmologists who claim that what we have all along been calling
"the universe" is nothing of the sort. Rather, it is a tiny
fragment of a much vaster and more elaborate system that, for
want of a better word, has been dubbed "the multiverse".

The basic idea is simple. Cosmologists think the universe began
with a big bang about 14bn years ago. This means we can't see
anything farther than 14bn light years away, however good our
telescopes may be, because light from those regions hasn't had
time to reach us yet. But this doesn't mean there is nothing
there, and for decades astronomers supposed that what lies
beyond this horizon in space is likely to be more or less the
same as we observe in our cosmic backyard - just more galaxies.


-- "Only a zit on the wart on the heinie of progress." Copyright
1992, Frank Rice


Terry W. Colvin, Sierra Vista, Arizona (USA)
fortean1.nul








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                         Whittlesea-Beveridge Photo

From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul>
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 02:45:38 EST
Fwd Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 09:04:17 -0500
Subject: Whittlesea-Beveridge Photo


I don't see how any serious analysis of the Whittlesea-Beveridge
photo can possibly be done without knowing the Field of View
(FOV), in degrees, of the picture that was taken. Yet despite
all the various postings on this case, including Kodak DC240
digital camera data, not one single person has posted the FOV in
Degrees or even raised the question of its absence from analyses
until now. Without the FOV in Degrees you cannot tell how high
in degrees the "UFO" was in the sky or what direction various
objects in the photo were really at. How can you analyze the
photo without that kind of data?

I contacted Kodak for information on the FOV for the DC240 but
the camera is no longer produced and they did not have the data.
At best they guessed from various file data that the Wide Angle
lens would give about a 85.5 degrees wide FOV, but that was a
guess based on interpreting various parameters and possibly
interpreted them wrong, by a low-level customer service
representative. My own rough estimate of the FOV from
measurements of objects of approximately known size is roughly
100 degrees.

All of the argument earlier on this list about conflicting
direction of sun shadows was due to the fact that in a wide
angle view the objects that look like they are almost in front
of you are actually way off to one side in a significantly
different direction. Thus the control box to the left side of
the photo looks like the sun is coming down on the front and
sides yet the railroad crossing signs directly in front of the
camera look like the sun is behind them. Both are right. Why?
Because straight ahead is W (West) but the control box off to
the left is about in the SW (South West), a considerably
different direction.

What is needed is the FOV measured directly from the camera used
and an interview with the photographer so there is no
uncertainty about what lens was used and at what setting.


Brad Sparks








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             Re: NASA & Soviet Astronauts And UFOs - Marinkovic

From: Giuliano Marinkovic <giuliano.marinkovic.nul>
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 12:08:47 +0100
Fwd Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 09:05:48 -0500
Subject: Re: NASA & Soviet Astronauts And UFOs - Marinkovic


Dear colleagues.

Thanks for the confirmation of the hoax of the alleged 'Apollo
11 comunications' (Maurice Chatellain and other folklore etc)...
Few years ago, I have tried to confirm those allegations inside
hamradio community because I am hamradio operator myself.

There was no results so I suspected that it was an old hoax back
then, but thanks now for the final confirmation of the
references.

Now I will move on for confirmation of some other statements of
that subject.

Apollo 11 radio UFO communications in the program will be
presented as a ufo
folklore and old hoax.


Thanks once more.

Giuliano








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                        Feb. 22 Corinth S.C. Mystery

From: Kenny Young <ufo.nul>
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 05:43:25 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 09:08:07 -0500
Subject: Feb. 22 Corinth S.C. Mystery


UFO spotter in Corinth expects mystery to remain unsolved

08:17 AM EST on Wednesday, February 25, 2004

By Maria Katoula/6News
WCNC Charleston, N.C.

CORINTH, S.C. -- This is the story of an unidentified flying
object that fell from the sky and set a field on fire. But the
woman who spotted it doesn�t expect to ever find out what it
was.

It happened Sunday night in Corinth just outside of Gaffney.

Carrie Martin and her husband saw a fiery object floating across
the sky and now wish they hadn�t.

"The object in the sky looked like a round thing,� says Martin.
"And on the bottom it had five rods, like sparklers, red hot
rods.�

They were almost home, driving down the same Corinth Road
they�ve driven down everyday for 23 years.

"We watched it pass over the car. We stopped and it passed over
the phone lines,� she says. "And this thing was not dropping
heavy, it was floating around up there. We drove down the road
and cam"

The Martins called 911 and when firefighters arrived Martin says
they saw a small burning brush fire at the time.

"We checked with local Greenville-Spartanburg and Charlotte
airports, and found no history of a plane reporting trouble.�

And to make this even more of a mystery, firefighters found a
one foot round piece of metal, but it disappeared. No one seems
to know where it is.

Martin wonders if the federal aviation people came and got it.

Everyone seems to have a theory.

One person says it could be something from outer space like
space trash.

"People think this is like something you read in the National
Enquirer,  but this really happened to us,� says Martin. "It�s
like reading a  mystery book and someone�s torn out the last
chapters and we never know what happened.�

End of article








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              Argentine Pombero 'Attack Victim' In Mental Ward

From: Scott Corrales <lornis1.nul>
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 10:05:45 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 10:00:08 -0500
Subject: Argentine Pombero 'Attack Victim' In Mental Ward


INEXPLICATA
The Journal of Hispanic Ufology
February 25, 2004


SOURCE: El Norte Digital (Chaco, Argentina)
DATE: 02.25.04

WOMAN ATTACKED BY POMBERO WAS IN THE SAENZ PENA PSYCHIATRIC WARD

The woman who claimed to have been assaulted by the dwarfish
entity known as the Pombero, was a patient in the 4 de Junio
Hospital's Psychiatric Ward from early morning on Friday to
Monday morning. During this time, physicians were unable to
complete the evaluation of her mental condition, but they
believe that she suffered hallucinations common to an hysteric
attack.

However, there are doubts about who inflicted the blows to her
face, leading experts to believe that it could all be a case of
doemstic violence, and the possibility that doctors may ask law
enforcement to investigate the case, has not been ruled out. It
is worth noting that Mercedes Liliana Nievas [NOTE--this is the
third name given to the victim, the other two being "Lili
Mederos" and "Liliana Nieves" - SC] caused a stir in Barrio
Santa Teresita when she claimed having been attacked by a short,
black, animal faced entity that beat her. Earlier, both the
young woman's family and some neighbors reported that the roofs
of their homes had been pelted with shards of brick.

When the police intervened, the woman was taken to Ward 8,
victim of a nervous attack that caused hospital personnel to
bind her hands and feet and administer powerful sedatives. "She
left the hospital on Monday, because her family took her away. In
other words, she wasn't released by physicians, because we
advised her to stay longer in order to complete our findings,"
Dr. Ramiro Islas, head of the psychiatric unit, told NORTE.

"The evaluation was not completed, but all indications point to
a hysteric attack. There are several types of hysteria, and hers
was of the dissociative type, meaning that there is
confabulation on her part," noted the physician.

Dr. Islas interviewed the patient on two different occasions,
and says that she gave different versions each time. "The first
time she said she'd fallen in the bathroom, but I didn't believe
her because the injuries on her face seemed to be the product of
a blow more than a fall. The second time she said it was a
Pombero."

According to the psychiatrist, hallucinations of this sort are
very common in hysteria cases "but what is not common is that
the confabulation should involve a popular imaginary character
such as the Pombero."

Finally, Islas believed that the hysteria attack could be the
result "of a conflict that sometimes involves family, finances
or critical situations which lead to the nervous breakdown."
Consequently, there is the suspicion that domestic violence
could be involved.


Translation (C) 2004 Scott Corrales
Institute of Hispanic Ufology (IHU)
Special thanks to Gloria Coluchi











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                           Filer's Files #09-2004

From: George A. Filer <Majorstar.nul>
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 17:50:30 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 10:21:11 -0500
Subject: Filer's Files #09-2004


Filer's Files #09-2004 Skywatch Investigations
George A. Filer, Director MUFON Eastern
February 25, 2004, Webmaster: Chuck Warren

My website is at: www.georgefiler.com/

Alien Life Found?

The purpose of these files is to report the UFO eyewitness and
photo/video evidence that occurs on a daily basis around the
world and in space. These files make the assumption that
intelligent life exists other than humans as described in the
early sacred writings of mankind. Earth Could Be Scattering Life
Throughout Our Galaxy, Mars Rovers May Have Found Salty Water,
Mars - Can Rocks Grow or Move? E.T. Craft Are Made With Strange
Technology, Jupiter =96 Is Sending Radio Signals, Abduction
Investigation in Mullica Hill, NJ continues, New Jersey -
 Glowing Tethered Object Not UFO, South Carolina =96 UFO Looks
Like the Sun, Florida =96 Alien Encounter, Florida - Marcos Island
News on Aliens, Alabama - Pilot Reports UFO, Ohio -The Green
Object Was Streaking, Indiana =96 Green Light Sighting, Arizona =96
Five Disk Shaped Ships, England =96 Photo of Disc Shaped UFO
Taken, Sweden =96 UFOs reported, and Australia - Disks Land
Leaving Patches on the Ground.

Earth Could Be Scattering Life Throughout Our Galaxy

Microbes could ride on specks of dust, powered by the Sun's
rays, says William Napier, an astronomer at the Armagh
Observatory in Northern Ireland. Scientists have pondered
whether life might ride between star systems ever since the
nineteenth century. Some think that a collision between a life-
bearing planet and another celestial body could scatter stones
and boulders into space carrying living organisms. These deep-
frozen spores could then make their way to other worlds -- an
idea called 'panspermia.' However, the chances are stacked
against such an event. Spores would have to survive the meteor
impact and be thrown into space. The boulder would then have to
leave the solar system and land on another life-supporting
planet. It would have to get there quickly, too. The radiation
streaming through space will cook any organisms in space rocks.
Typically, says Napier, "The boulders will be sterile by the
time they are ejected from the solar system."

But microbes might survive if they can escape the Sun's gravity
more quickly. And that might happen, says Napier, if the rocks
they sit on are first ground to dust. And the pressure of
sunlight can quickly blow grains this small out of the solar
system. The same force might one day propel spacecraft through
the cosmos. Such a grain could travel about six light years from
Earth in 70,000 years -- far enough to reach other stars. We
could be surrounded by a huge 'biodisk' of frozen organisms
floating on grains of rock, says Napier, all of which can wander
in and out of our solar system quite easily. "The solar system
is as leaky as a sieve," he says.

Earth should spread its seed widest when we pass through a giant
molecular cloud, a mass of dusty material from which stars are
born. This has happened about five times since life appeared on
Earth. Each time, Napier estimates about three billion trillion
microbes passed from Earth into the cloud. The chances of some
of these finding their way to an Earth-like planet are quite
high, he says. A similar process could even explain how the
Earth wound up hosting life in the first place, he adds. Thanks
to Nature Magazine http://www.nature.com/nsu/040216/040216-
20.html

Editor's Note: If we assume Napier is correct, life that is
estimated to exist on Earth for 3.8 billion years could have
sent life to Mars. The green vegetation that springs up almost
over night on vast stretches of Mars each spring look like green
snow-ice algae that sometimes grows on snow and in harsh
conditions here on Earth. Areas the size of France are observed
to grow in days, while no dust storms can account for their
sudden appearance.

Editor=92s Note: I suggest JPL examine the European Space Agency
photos of green vegetation in Spirit's landing zone marked by
the + sign. A little water, a few spores and suddenly millions
of acres on Mars turn green suggesting growing vegetation such
as algae. Geologists claim there is no geological explanation
for the green growth.

Mars Rovers May Have Found Salty Water

Robert Roy Britt writes, "NASA's Opportunity rover sent back new
images from Mars showing that small spheres previously found on
the surface also exist below, in a trench the rover dug." Hints
of salty water were also found in the trench, but much more
analysis is needed to learn the true composition. Meanwhile
Opportunity's twin rover, Spirit, is about to dig a trench of
its own in order to investigate soil that sticks to its wheels,
suggesting the fine-grained material might be moist. JPL
officials said the soil at both locations could contain small
amounts of water mixed with salt in a brine that can exist in
liquid form at very low temperatures. The scientists stressed
that only minuscule amounts of water would be needed to create
the brine. Water is the main thing scientists are searching for
at Mars, because all life as we know it requires liquid water.
 Spirits Gusev landing site (marked +) was photographed by the
European Space Agency satellite showing large amounts of green
coloring that is normally associated with living organisms and
not land forms or minerals.

Mars - Can Rocks Grow or Move?

Mark Fink has sent me Mars Rover images.  He says, "There have
been many strange very life like things showing up in Mars pics
(especially the microscopic images)... but this is the first
time that there are two of the same thing close to one another.
The navigation and a hazard cam shot of the same location.. they
just come out Tuesday Feb 25th. Mars rover Spirit has imaged two
"critters" sticking out of the sand near the same location...
 there seems to be some signs of movement. (Shell like object at
bottom of photos may move.)

Please look over these two images.. (see below image to see a
better view of the "critter" in the foreground.

http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/2/f/051/2F130897419EFF1100P1210R0=
M1.JPG

http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/2/n/051/2N130896685EFF10CEP1933L0=
M1.JPG

Thanks to mark_fink.nul

Editor=92s Note: I looked at the images and found a different
anomaly at the edge of the left tire track.

In the first image the crab like rock has no claws, in the
second one he does. Can anyone explain how the rock appeared to
grow?

Can camera angle explain the apparent growth at the left above
tire track? The two Mars rover JPL/NASA images shown above have
been enlarged to show similar size objects.

Opportunity's spheres - At Meridiani Planum near the equator of
Mars, Opportunity has examined its self-dug trench. More data is
yet to be returned that should help scientists understand
mysterious BB-sized spheres they've found strewn on the surface
everywhere in the vicinity and embedded in a rock wall. Now
those spheres have been found in the trench. Unlike those on
the surface, the spheres in the wall of the trench are "polished
and shiny," said geochemist Albert Yen of NASA=92s Jet Propulsion
Laboratory. No one knows why. Yen said it's not surprising that
the buried spheres are different from those at the surface,
since they experience different conditions. Some coating could
be responsible for the higher reflectivity of the long-buried
spheres below. He said it was not due to just an effect of
lighting. In the broader sense, the spheres could have been
formed in a volcano or a meteor impact, or they might be the
result of running water. Those are the three hypothesis
researchers have been working with for several days now. Each is
still a possibility.

Jupiter =96 Is Sending Radio Signals

NASA says the shortwave radio signals from Jupiter aren't a sign
of extraterrestrial intelligence. The emissions are generated
naturally by plasma instabilities in Jupiter's magnetosphere, a
pulsing power beam. Most space physicists say that ionized gas
in the upper atmosphere above Jupiter's magnetic poles sometimes
behaves like a powerful radio laser or maser. The radiation can
be so intense that Jupiter frequently outshines the Sun as a
source of radio energy at ham radio wavelengths. The radio laser
gets its power from Jupiter's volcanic moon Io. Tidal forces
from Jupiter and its other large satellites superheat the
interior of the moon Io and make it the most volcanic body in
the Solar System. Volcanic materials are thrown far above Io's
surface. Much of that enters orbit around Jupiter, forming a
huge gaseous donut around the giant planet.

Editor=92s Note: Perhaps we are picking up the radio signals of
intelligent extraterrestrial life that has a pulsing power beam.
 The next time you listen to the radio remember it may be a
pulsing power beam. See and hear signals from Jupiter on my
website: www.georgefiler.com/

E.T. Craft Are Made With Strange Technology

Robert Collins reports that his Los Alamos National Laboratories
contact writes on January 4, 2004.....Before answering your
questions, you are assuming that ET crafts are made with our
technology based on your questions. Many years ago, we made that
same mistake and it took us several years to correct the mistake
and start fresh from the drawing board. "Their" technology is
nothing similar to ours. We do not utilize our physics or
chemistry in a comparison analysis. We started from scratch and
learned their principles of dynamics, physics, etc. The
document I gave "_____" was a briefing to people with some basic
knowledge of the craft. I used our grammar and basic English
comparison phrases to explain a very complex ET system. See full
story at:,
http://www.ufoconspiracy.com/reports/lanl_message.htmr

Editor=92s Note: If scientists have trouble figuring out the craft
with one to examine, it is almost impossible for scientists or
ufologists to determine the exact nature of the craft.
 Apparently even the alien physics is quite different. It is my
theory that another non-human intelligence is operating on the
Earth that has advanced technology and the ability to hide its
presence. One aspect of their technology is craft that operate
at exceptionally high speed, too fast for the human eye to see
unless they choose to slow down. They can also penetrate earth
or water at high speeds. Science may be of little help in
obtaining proof or their existence because the aliens operate
with a science far different from our own, that is not
understood or recognized by most of our scientists. The
majority of scientists work in very narrow fields often with
grants, and very few can afford the ridicule of attempting to
investigate UFOs.

In recent years, George Ritter has been videotaping a series of
blurred UFOs behind a farm in Fostoria, Ohio. Noted artist and
webmaster James Neff has written that blurs on videotape are not
UFOs but most likely insects. I drove from New Jersey to Ohio to
meet with George Ritter to investigate his images and found him
to honest and forthright. I believe he is honest and forthright
in his attempts to obtain video of Unidentified Flying Objects
and regularly captures remarkable images. George Ritter places
his camera on a tripod in his backyard and shoots video for
several hours without touching the camcorder except to set up
and remove the tape. I was present while he videotaped some
remarkable images of UFOs. I did not see the UFOs captured on
the video, since they appear to move at very high speeds of over
a thousand miles per hour. This was determined by measuring
their progression from frame to frame and the distance covered
above the farm.

The camcorder generally used by George Ritter is his RCA VHS
video camera Model cc 4251. While video taping UFOs the camera
also video tapes birds, bees and other insects as the camera
automatically changes focus on the object in the center of the
video screen almost instantly. On wide angle position the camera
focuses from an inch from the lens to infinity. The camera is
capable of taking images at very close range as is apparent by
the image of the bird that is only a few feet away from the
lens, while a bee flies only a few inches from lens. The
following image does not appear to be an insect and we believe
the Unidentified Flying Objects that appear over the farm at a
distance of approximately 265 yards or more are genuine UFOs.
George Ritter has always been open to have qualified experts
attempt to repeat his results with high speed film. Efforts have
been made to obtain help from Ohio State and Bowling Green
University to evaluate the images on site.

Note: Similar disc image taken by Whittlesea Council, in
Beveridge, Australia in January over railroad signal. See
Filer's Files #05-20004. Thanks to Barry Taylor.

Photo

New Jersey - Abduction Investigation

MULLICA HILL =96 Evelyn Gaulson and George Filer investigated the
abduction of Ann Francis. Investigator Gaulson writes, "When she
was pregnant with her son in 1999, she woke up one morning and
saw a mark just above her navel. She went to her doctor and
showed him the mark. He told her that it looked like she had an
amniocentesis test. (This test is done by insertion of a hollow
needle through the abdominal wall and into the uterus to obtain
amniotic fluid especially for the determination o fetal sex or
chromosomal abnormality. ) The mark didn't go away for weeks.
While she was pregnant with Steven, she got a craving for meat,
she would just brown it on both sides and then eat it, it was
mostly raw meat. Before she was pregnant she was a vegan. (A
vegan is a strict vegetarian who consumes no animal food or
dairy products.) During the delivery of her son there was a
problem so they delivered her child by cesarean section. They
had placed a blue blanket in front of her so she couldn't see
the surgery. When her son was delivered the nurse lifted her
baby high up and said, "Look at your baby". Ann couldn't see her
baby because it wasn't high enough the blanket was in the way.
All of a sudden the baby grabbed the blanket and pulled it down
and looked at her. They were amazed that he did that.

One day Steven said, "Mommy I picked you." Ann said, " What do
you mean, you picked me?" "When I was in Heaven I picked you for
my mommy," was his answer. And on another occasion Steven said,
" Mommy remember the blue blanket, I couldn't see you so I
pulled it down." Ann asked him what he was talking about, "What
blue blanket?" Steven said. "When I was born, I pulled down the
blue blanket so I could see you." She was so surprised with the
things he said. She hadn't told him about what happened when he
was born. How could he know about it? When Ann was pregnant with
Michele, she told Steven that he was going to have a baby
brother or sister, he said, "No mommy I'm going to have a
sister, not a brother?" She said, "But you might have a
brother." Again he said, "No, I'm going to have a sister, I just
know it." The investigation continues. Thanks to Evelyn Gaulson

New Jersey - Glowing Blue/White Object

KEARNEY/ELIZABETH -- I've noticed a number of reports about a
glowing blue/white object in the vicinity of Kearney, Elizabeth,
and the New Jersey Turnpike on February 4, 2004. You should be
aware there's an advertising blimp-shaped balloon that appears
to be tethered to a tower in the area. Its hard to pin point its
exact location but it is visible for many miles because it is
floating about the height of a 15-story building with no large
structures to obstruct the view.

I first spotted it while traveling south on the NJ Turnpike in
the area of Exit 18 and could still see it when we left at Exit
13. I had my eye on it the whole time because it really had me
going. It hovers, sways and turns with the breeze giving the
appearance of something changing shape. It gives off a very
bright, eerie, blue/white glow.

Georgia =96 A Moving Light

BLACKSHEAR =96 On February 18, 2004, at 8:30 until 9 PM, I really
didn't think much of my nephew saying he wanted to use the
telescope until I went out and off to the northwest was a very
bright circular object. It slowly moved to the north and all of
a sudden, it took off like a rocket for about a half a second.
It slowed and started moving south. It slowly moved south for a
few seconds then it turned moving back towards the north again.
At times it would appear to be hanging in the night sky swinging
like a pendulum. It would go in all directions, like someone
scribbling on a piece of paper. It also had faint blinking
colors such as you would see with the stars. Occasionally, you
could see what looked liked a tail from a comet. At 9:45 PM, I
walked back outside and the object was nowhere in sight. Another
thing I should point out is that my nephew said he has seen it
for the last couple of days. Thanks to Brian Vike, Director HBCC
UFO Research http://www.hbccufo.com

South Carolina =96 UFO Looks Like the Sun

Kris Waddell writes, "I would like to share my UFO sighting on
the night of July 20, 1998, when I was standing on my front
porch with my grandmother and noticed a really big and bright
object moving slowly through the sky." It almost looked like the
sun. I was really excited and asked my grandmother to go get my
telescope. "I said hurry Nanny hurry" she couldn=92t find it so I
turned my head and looked in the living room and turned back
around in a matter of a second. Looking back into the sky. It
wasn=92t there. I was filled with awe and was shocked, because I
couldn=92t believe that this happened. I am still wondering if it
was a UFO or an airplane. But I know that airplanes don=92t fly
away in a second. And I do know that airplanes aren=92t bright as
the sun. I am only 17 years old and my parents taught me to tell
the truth, and this is no lie!!! Please let me know what you
think it was, or why it moved so fast.

Editor=92s Note: Hundreds of similar reports are sent to Peter
Davenport=92s National UFO Reporting Center and MUFON. Most of
these remain unsolved and are called unidentified flying
objects.

UFOs and Aliens in Southwest Florida

Steven Skelley a minister who writes for the Marcos Island Sun
Times writes,

"I was surfing the Web one night when I came across a Web site
that offered eyewitness accounts of alien sightings right here
in Southwest Florida." The site, UFOinfo.com, also lists alien
sightings from across the USA. One such listing is from a
Collier County resident who was traveling I75. According to his
account, "I noticed an object in the sky. It had three tiny
white lights and came closer at a very slow pace. I was able to
make out the shape very distinctly as a low flying triangle. It
was well below the clouds, and its lights were at each apex. The
lights did not illuminate any portion of the craft. I pulled
over to the side of the road and shut off the engine to listen.
It was traveling west and passed by in three minutes. The window
was down, and the engine off, but there was no sound. I turned
the ignition to aux to have the radio on. I looked back and the
object was gone. I got out of my van, and looked around, but
there was nothing, not even contrails. I noticed the van's
digital clock lost two minutes."

A Web site named UFOs.about.com lists this Southwest Florida
alien encounter. "James W. Flynn was camping in the Everglades
when, shortly after midnight, he saw an object that he thought
was an airplane in trouble descend about a mile away. He drove
his swamp buggy towards the light, which was visible through the
trees. About a quarter of a mile from the light, the vegetation
became so dense that he could not proceed except on foot. As he
got close to the object, he saw it was a large cone-shaped
structure hovering close to the ground; it was about 75 feet
wide and 25 feet high, and had rows of windows with light
shining through them. As he neared the object, a beam of light
struck him in the forehead, knocking him unconscious and leaving
him temporarily blinded. The UFO then vanished, leaving behind
burned trees and vegetation. A medical examination showed
impairment of muscle and tendon reflexes which a doctor did not
believe could be faked."

Science fiction movies have been using the UFO and alien theme
for decades. Do you believe there are aliens among us? I do. Did
you know the Bible talks about beings that are "not of this
place, not of this world?" And not just anyone in the Bible, but
Jesus himself talks about what many people would call "aliens,
beings not of this world." If you look up the word "alien" in a
dictionary, you'll find definitions like; "someone different, a
nonnative, someone from another place." Remember that: someone
different and from another place. An alien.

Let's look at what Jesus says in the book of John chapter 17
verses 1, 14-17. Jesus looked toward heaven and prayed: "Father
... I have given them your word and the world rejects them, for
they are not of this world any more than I am of this world. My
prayer is not that you take them out of the world but that you
protect them from the evil one. They are not of this world, even
as I am not of it. Set them apart by the truth. Your word is
truth."

We could translate the prayer in passage like this, "God, I have
given people your word and now other people reject them, other
people think they're different. It's true. They are now as alien
to this world as I am. Protect them. Continue to set them apart
by the truth of your word." Being a Christian is about allowing
God to make us different from what we were and allowing him to
make us something alien to the normal way the world works and
people are. The Bible says the way to destruction is wide and
most people choose to go that way, but the way to righteousness
is narrow and few people choose it. The few, the different, the
alien.

God's plan is not for us to be the same as most people. Most
people are on the wrong path, the wide way. God's plan is not
for us to have the same mindset as our peer group. They're
probably not living their lives according to God's truth. God's
plan is not for us to be tolerant or accepting of things that
are wrong, even when most people do.

God's plan is for us to be made into something different. A new
person on the inside. Someone in a right relationship with the
creator of the universe and everything in it. God's plan is for
us to be so filled with his life that we look and think and work
in a way that's alien to the rest of the world. God's plan is
for us to be so filled with his light and love in this darkened
world that we're like Jesus; we just don't fit in anymore.

That is what Jesus was saying: God, they're so filled with your
word and your plan and your light and your truth that, just like
me, they're alien. They're sanctified. They're set apart.
They're not of this world. There are aliens among us, beings who
are not of this world. People who have been set apart, made
different on the inside by God himself. This week, let's ask God
to mold us into what we were really meant to be, not just what
everyone else is. Let's choose to become aliens to this world.
Thanks to Steven Skelley is an ordained minister. =A9Marco Island
Sun Times 2004
http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=3D10992578&BRD=3D2256&PAG=3D
461&dept_id=3D455823&rfi=3D8

Florida =96 Alien Encounter

ORLANDO -- It was about 8:45 PM, and I was cat-fishing at Lake
Downy Park just east of downtown Orlando on February 6, 2004. I
had a feeling something was watching me for about five minutes,
I kept looking around me and saw nothing. It was very dark but
the moon made things OK to see. I heard foot steps in the
woods/marsh on the side of lake near the dock I was fishing
from, when I saw and heard a ripple in water near the shore.
Then I saw two stork like legs and a head watching me. It looked
right at me and I was very scared and yelled, "Hey!" It stood up
like a man my size or so, and stared me dead in eyes. I went to
run off the dock, but when I did so, it walked at a slow pace
toward the end of dock to trap me. I phoned 911 and they told me
to stay put, and the police were coming. What I saw was not
human and was not a native animal, but apparently, it didn=92t
want to hurt me, because if it wanted to, it could have. Later,
I called the FBI and they said they cant help. Since then I cant
sleep, and see that face and I=92m scared to even sleep. I=92m 22
years old and never have seen anything like that in my life. For
proof please call the Orange County Sheriff Department. Thanks
to Peter Davenport UFOcenter

Alabama - Pilot Report

My second sighting occurred in 1967, on the final leg of a trip
to St. Louis, Missouri and back to Atlanta, Georgia. It was late
afternoon, the sun had just gone down and the sky was quite
bright with good visibility. In the southwest we noticed a very
bright reddish-orange light that almost appeared like Venus
would in a darker sky, but not in a color that Venus presents.
It was just a short time later that we noticed the light was
moving toward us. As it got closer we could see that it would
pass behind our aircraft. There were two lights (objects) and
their brilliance was nearly blinding, traveling in tandem and
the rearward object slightly to the left of the leader. Their
speeds were just fantastic! An estimate of 4000 mph. Their
altitudes appeared to be in the 5000 feet range and it was my
belief that they flew right over Redstone! They left no smoke
trails or plasma trails and simply disappeared after passing
behind us. This sighting was the most thrilling I've had so far.
Thanks to Brian Vike, Director HBCC UFO Research
http://www.hbccufo.com

North Carolina - Flying Triangle

SHILOH - A criminal justice professional was coming home from
work February 8, 2004, at 6:20 AM, and spotted a craft flying at
tree top level. He reports, "As I crossed a little bridge on 343
the craft flared to the left and flew south along 343 steadily
increasing speed until I lost sight of the craft." The underside
of the craft was unusual with three conical shaped depressions
that glowed a bluish color that turned to white as it picked up
speed. The top of the flying triangle craft was jet black.
Thanks to Peter Davenport UFOcenter

Ohio -The Green Object Was Streaking

MANSFIELD -- The green object was streaking across the sky on
February 10, 2004, at 5:15 AM. It was bright green like the
light on a stop light that seemed to be below the clouds,
parallel with the horizon. The witness states, "I thought it was
a plane crashing, but no sound was made by the object that was
like a streaking comet but, much closer." Duration was for three
seconds. Thanks to Peter Davenport UFOcenter

Indiana =96 Green Light Sighting

MAJENICA -- Two witnesses saw a craft traveling northbound over
Indiana Highway 5, flying over the town. The car a little ways
in front of me applied its brakes and may have seen it too. The
witness states, "What I saw was a light green light fall from
the sky in the north, slightly to the east on February 14, 2004,
at 12:45 AM. At first I thought it must be a shooting/falling
star, but it left no trail and looked nothing like any aircraft
I have ever seen, and I have a decent knowledge of aeronautics.
It fell from 75 degrees to 55 degrees, and then it disappeared
just as it appeared. It looked almost as if it could be falling
(if in fact it were) toward the Huntington Reservoir or the
nearby airport. When we visited the reservoir seven minutes
later there were about fifty geese in the spillway of the dam
that were nervous and more vocal then normal. It was odd to see
geese in the middle of the winter, since I have never seen geese
there before. A pilot and another witness, also, saw something
earlier that night. Thanks to Bryce W.

Arizona =96 Five Discs Spotted

SCOTTSDALE =96 A couple who are investors and own two companies
witnessed five disk shaped ships enter the lower atmosphere at
11 PM, from the northeast and travel south on February 3, 2004.
The witness writes, "Two ships were seen through my night vision
scope, and this is how I know the shape of the ships." We could
hear two ships as they flew by. They sounded as though they were
pushing against the air. All ships were glowing red, blue and
orange. The faster the ships accelerated the lights would
pulsate more rapidly. All the ships were of equal size and
shape. We estimate each ship was the size of a small airliner.
Her background was as an advertisement executive and my
background was director of operations in my industry. Thanks to
Peter Davenport UFOcenter

England =96 Photo of Disc Shaped UFO Taken

PLYMOUTH =96 An amazing photograph was snapped by an amateur
photographer who was trying out his new hi-tech digital camera.
The image can only be described as an 'unidentified flying
object' hovering above St. Budeaux. Another, equally stunning,
image shows the same brightly illuminated object tilted at a
different angle. UFO experts are highly excited by the pictures
and the Royal Navy today asked the Herald to supply them with
the photos -- because they want to study them.

Sweden =96 UFOs reported

KISTA - A strong bright light with yellow, blue and red colors
was spotted on February 11, 2004, at 10 PM. The witness
observed, The shape is different from craft to craft and some
are round. They suddenly appear and just stop for two seconds
then they go up higher in the air, and then they just fly away.
The speed is ten times an airplane. First there were five, then
they become 18. Two girls, 17-18 year old students had never
seen a UFO before. Thanks to Peter DavenportUFOcenter

Australia - Disks Land Leaving Patches on the Ground

ALICE SPRINGS =96 On February 10, 2004, at 10:14 PM, a 16 year old
observer and a few friends went out in the bush to look through
a telescope when one asked, "Hey what are those things floating
around?" They watched for a while and managed to get one in the
telescope for a clear view. The observer says, "They were like
saucers but there were four of them that had a green color, and
were they hovering about 15-20 meters from the ground." I didn't
see any sort of alien life forms, although there were trees in
the way so we didn't get a clear view of the ground. But I did
hear wired and bazaar noises coming from the direction of the
saucers that we watched for at least two minutes or even more.
There were about 6-7 that departed, so I think that some were on
the ground just sitting there. In an instant they were out of
sight.

After they left, we went and looked and there were two patches
on the ground, and some faint footprints were observed. No one
was around so we stayed there for a while, just looking at the
marks, and were totally amazed and a bit freaked out. My friends
are older than me, one is 20, and the other 22. We all saw it
well with the naked eye, and I, also, got the telescope on them,
they looked unreal! Thanks to Peter Davenport UFOcenter

Open Hearings - Congress should consider opening hearings on the
hundreds of UFO sightings obtained each month and why two-thirds
of Martian probes disappear.

WHAT YOU SHOULD KNOW WHEN BUY OR SELL A HOME

Learn how you can obtain the best real estate agent for your
needs. To get a free copy of this report e-mail me at
Majorstar.nul

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Dear Readers - Filer=92s Files has been brought to you free on a
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You can also mail your check to:

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reserved. Readers may post the COMPLETE files on their Web Sites
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the date of issue. These reports and comments are not
necessarily the OFFICIAL MUFON viewpoint. Send your letters to
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for us to publish and use your name. Please state if you wish to
keep your name or e-mail confidential. CAUTION, MOST OF THESE
ARE INITIAL REPORTS AND REQUIRE FURTHER INVESTIGATION.

Regards,

George A. Filer www.georgefiler.com/















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   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   Feb > Feb 26

                      Re: 'Multiverse' Theories - Shell

From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 08:37:22 -0600
Fwd Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 14:00:03 -0500
Subject: Re: 'Multiverse' Theories - Shell


>From: Terry W. Colvin <fortean1.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 00:18:18 -0700
>Subject: 'Multiverse' Theories

>http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1047755,00.html

>According to 'multiverse' theorists, life as we know it could
>be nothing but a Matrix-style simulation

>Paul Davies Tuesday September 23, 2003
>The Guardian

The notion of a multiverse is very appealing, but a little
difficult to work with on the practical side. UFOs zipping back
and forth between universes, or even being conjured up out of a
parallel reality as tulpic or morphogenic forms by our own
imaginations is a fun idea. I guess the primarly problem I run
into is that in spite of the mathematical potential for a
multiverse, I only experience one universe at a time.

Why would that be? Why does my perspective of time and space
seem to be so limited, given the infinite variety of
mathematical possibilities? I suppose that by DNA limiting my
conscious interaction with a multiple universe reality I have a
better chance at survival. Time only flows in one direction, so
I can gain some understanding of cause and effect, for example.
But there also might be some real advantages to being able to
shift from one universe to another at will. Maybe our alien pals
can do this like walking through a door. The nature of physical
reality... I admit my profound ignorance.








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   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   Feb > Feb 26

                   Re: Whittlesea-Beveridge Photo - Shell

From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 08:43:50 -0600
Fwd Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 14:00:54 -0500
Subject: Re: Whittlesea-Beveridge Photo - Shell


>From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 02:45:38 EST
>Subject: Whittlesea-Beveridge Photo

>I don't see how any serious analysis of the Whittlesea-
Beveridge photo can possibly be done without knowing the Field
of View (FOV), in degrees, of the picture that was taken.

The image shows a little smeary something that some people think
looks like a bug and some people think looks like a saucer.
 Will knowing the FOV somehow make that image more distinct?
 Will it somehow allow us to know that the angels dancing on
that pinhead are doing the Shim-Sham, rather than a Virginia
Reel?








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   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   Feb > Feb 26

                   Re: Whittlesea-Beveridge Photo - Bright

From: Dan Bright <ufo.nul>
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 15:06:12 -0000
Fwd Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 14:01:47 -0500
Subject: Re: Whittlesea-Beveridge Photo - Bright


>From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 02:45:38 EST
>Subject: Whittlesea-Beveridge Photo

>Yet despite all the various postings on this case,
>including Kodak DC240 digital camera data, not
>one single person has posted the FOV in Degrees
>or even raised the question of its absence from analyses until
>now.

How could anyone have posted the FOV if it is unknown? Of course
this is an important part of the analysis, and something about
which I'm sure many on this list have considered. Indeed, I was
planning on contacting Kodak myself for this very purpose.
Thanks for saving me the trouble.

>What is needed is the FOV measured directly from the camera used
>and an interview with the photographer so there is no uncertainty
>about what lens was used and at what setting.

Obviously. Which is why I'm trying to arrange precisely that via
Tony Cook (VUFORS). Please don't hesitate to post any further
specific questions that you'd like answered to the list. I will
ensure that they are included in my document, to be forwarded at
the end of the week.


Regards,

Dan Bright

--
www.theunexplained.info








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                          Secrecy News -- 02/25/04

From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood.nul>
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 12:05:25 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 14:03:58 -0500
Subject: Secrecy News -- 02/25/04


SECRECY NEWS
from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy
Volume 2004, Issue No. 22
February 25, 2004


**      DSB:  DOD HOMELAND SECURITY CAPABILITIES "IMMATURE"
**      LOS ALAMOS SCIENCE JOURNAL RESTORED TO THE WEB
**      DISPUTE OVER 1953 "STATE SECRETS" CASE CONTINUES
**      IAEA REPORT ON LIBYA
**      SSCI ANNUAL THREAT BRIEFING
**      SUPREME COURT WON'T HEAR SECRET 9/11 CASE
**      ONE WORLD OR NONE (1946)


DSB:  DOD HOMELAND SECURITY CAPABILITIES "IMMATURE"

"The conceptual thinking and the capabilities required to
address the homeland security challenge are still immature,"
according to a recent Defense Science Board (DSB) study on the
evolving role of the Department of Defense in homeland security.

The DSB addressed familiar concerns regarding information
sharing, maritime security, infrastructure protection, incident
response, and defense intelligence.

Many of the resulting recommendations are dull-edged and
practically useless.  Thus:  "Upgrades are needed in all areas
of intelligence collection" and "The analytic component of
intelligence needs to be more highly integrated with
collection."

But there are interesting and important nuggets scattered
randomly throughout the report.

The DSB describes a previously unreported March 2003 memorandum
of understanding on information sharing signed by the Director
of Central Intelligence, the Secretary of Homeland Security, and
the Attorney General.  Among other things it prescribes
procedures for a rapid-response 24 hour declassification cycle
or "release upon request."  (pp. 9-10).

A proposal first presented in Secrecy News for a "security
policy laboratory" (SN, 01/10/03) and briefed to DoD consultants
a year ago was adopted (without attribution) as a recommendation
for "an information-sharing laboratory" that "is capable of
testing evolving policies, tools, and techniques for information
sharing."  (p. 13).

The "Defense Science Board 2003 Summer Study on DoD Roles and
Missions in Homeland Security," Volume I, is dated November
2003.  It was quietly released last month.  A copy is posted
here (128 pages, 5.7 MB PDF file):

http://www.fas.org/irp/agency/dod/dsb/homelandss.pdf


LOS ALAMOS SCIENCE JOURNAL RESTORED TO THE WEB

The recovery of information that was removed from the web site
of Los Alamos National Laboratory continues with the posting of
all back issues of Los Alamos Science, the lab's esteemed annual
journal, on the Federation of American Scientists web site.

"In this magazine, we hope to provide a forum for scientists and
engineers at [Los Alamos] to present their work to each other
and to the wider community in a fashion that promotes
understanding," according to the journal's inaugural issue in
1980.

Los Alamos Science has covered a daunting array of current
topics in science and technology in reasonably accessible form,
from nuclear science to supercomputing to "unsolved problems in
the science of life."  Its accounts of nuclear weapons history
are themselves considered primary sources in the field.  The
special 1987 memorial issue on Stanislaw Ulam represents science
at its most cultured and humane.

The deletion of this material was an error that promotes public
stupidity, not national security.

Los Alamos Science "was taken off the web after 9-11" explained
Joy E. Baker of the journal's editorial staff, as part of a
scrub of the entire Lab web site.

"They plan to bring it back," she said on February 23, "but I
couldn't hazard a guess when."

How about now?

All issues of Los Alamos Science from 1980 through 2002 are now
posted here:

 http://www.fas.org/sgp/othergov/doe/lanl/pubs/LaScience.htm

Most of this material was captured by Gregory Walker and Carey
Sublette in their Los Alamos document collection (SN, 02/19/04).
 The remainder was located, ironically enough, on a temporary
Los Alamos web page, with articles marked "restricted to LANL."
 No more.


DISPUTE OVER 1953 "STATE SECRETS" CASE CONTINUES

United States v. Reynolds, the 1953 Supreme Court decision
upholding the "state secrets privilege," was founded on false
affidavits provided by the Air Force, according to surviving
plaintiffs from that case who have filed a new lawsuit alleging
fraud.

In the latest round, the plaintiffs rebut the government's
motion to dismiss their case.  See their Memorandum in
Opposition, filed February 24 in the Eastern District of
Pennsylvania, here:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/jud/herring0204.pdf


IAEA REPORT ON LIBYA

A "restricted" report of the International Atomic Energy Agency
on Libya's pursuit of nuclear weapons technologies is now
available here:

http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/libya/iaea0204.pdf

An initial assessment of what is new and interesting in the
report was provided by "Analyst" here:

http://www.mideastweb.org/log/archives/00000199.htm

Another "restricted" though widely reported IAEA report on
Iranian nuclear activities has not yet been obtained.


SSCI ANNUAL THREAT BRIEFING

The Director of Central Intelligence, the Director of the FBI
and the Director of the DIA presented their annual threat
briefing to the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence on
February 24.  (The State Department, which usually participates,
was absent.)

The testimony was largely devoid of self-criticism or an
appreciation of the loss of credibility suffered by U.S.
intelligence as a result of the failure to locate the
anticipated stockpiles of weapons of mass destruction.

The witnesses' prepared statements are posted here:

   http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/2004_hr/index.html#threat

Director Tenet "mistat[ed] the facts" and failed to give "honest
answers" about U.S. intelligence support to UN weapons
inspectors before the war, said Sen. Carl Levin (D-MI) on
February 23.

"The CIA did not share all of the top suspect WMD sites in Iraq
that Director Tenet said twice publicly before the war that it
had shared with U.N. inspectors," said Sen. Levin.  "It is more
evidence of the shaping of intelligence to fit the
administration's policy objectives."  See:

http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/2004_cr/s022304.html


SUPREME COURT WON'T HEAR SECRET 9/11 CASE

The U.S. Supreme Court declined to review the secret detention
of Mohamed K. Bellahouel, a Florida man who was apprehended for
unknown reasons after September 11.

The decision upheld the government's position, which was
presented in an extraordinary secret brief, and the Court
rebuffed efforts by news media organizations to intervene.

See this story from the Reporters Committee for Freedom of the
Press, which helped bring the case to light:

http://www.rcfp.org/news/2004/0223mkbvwa.html

See also "Supreme Court decision may limit access to terror
cases" by Warren Richey, Christian Science Monitor, February 24:

http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/0224/p04s01-usju.html


ONE WORLD OR NONE (1946)

In an early assessment of the threat posed by nuclear weapons,
the Federation of American Scientists in 1946 published a best-
selling volume entitled "One World or None."  Today, it has been
posted on the FAS web site.

"'One World or None' is an illuminating, powerful, threatening
and hopeful statement which will clarify a lot of confused
thinking about atomic energy," according to one review in the
New York Herald Tribune on March 17, 1946.

Others disagreed.  "You cannot intelligently discuss the atomic
bomb except against the background of present political
realities," including the looming threat from the Soviet Union,
according to an ABC News critique, and the authors displayed "a
terrifying unawareness of politics."

"It remains a document of intense cultural interest," wrote
historian Paul Boyer in his book "By the Bomb's Early Light,"
though it is also "a very disjointed affair....  For all their
eloquence, the contributors were much better at evoking the
atomic nightmare than at prescribing remedies."

Those contributors included Hans Bethe, Albert Einstein, J.
Robert Oppenheimer, Niels Bohr, Leo Szilard and other
luminaries.

"By far the most gripping chapter of 'One World or None'"
according to Boyer, "was 'If the Bomb Gets Out of Hand' by
Philip Morrison."

"Priced at a dollar, the FAS 'One World or None' sold a hundred
thousand copies," he noted.  The full text of "One World or
None" is now available here:

http://www.fas.org/oneworld/index.html



_______________________________________________
Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the
Federation of American Scientists.

To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to
secrecy_news-request.nul
with "subscribe" in the body of the message.

OR email your request to saftergood.nul

Secrecy News is archived at:
http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html

_______________________
Steven Aftergood
Project on Government Secrecy
Federation of American Scientists
web:    www.fas.org/sgp/index.html
email:  saftergood.nul
voice:  (202) 454-4691








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                        Re: V-Shaped Objects? - McCoy

From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy.nul>
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 09:48:49 -0800
Fwd Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 14:05:03 -0500
Subject: Re: V-Shaped Objects? - McCoy


>From: Amy Hebert <vanguard.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 00:32:59 -0600
>Subject: V-Shaped Objects?

>Below is a link to an interesting article a friend sent to me
>about "V-shaped" objects being launched from Texas.

>http://www.defensetech.org/archives/000742.html

Yes, it is V-shaped all right, a slow moving, Teathered V-shape.
By the way, The current issue of Airpower Magazine (march) has
an article on the Cross Flying Wings. They were never built (at
least in the 1940s) but they have a definte ah, Triangular Form.
Interesting article.

Issue has some good stuff about theX-15's accident record, -not
as bad as some of the other X planes.

One wonders what would've been if Mc 'Nam'ara and others hadn't
thrown lives and money at Vietnam instead of the High Ground of
Space.We'd be on Mars now trying to figure out an efficent way to
get to Alpha Centauri.


GT McCoy








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                         Re: Apollo 16 Film - Oberg

From: James Oberg <joberg.nul>
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 12:07:09 -0600
Fwd Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 14:09:40 -0500
Subject: Re: Apollo 16 Film - Oberg


>From: Lan Fleming <lfleming5.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 14:05:43 -0600
>Subject: Apollo 16 Film

>Is the Apollo-16 "Anomalous Image" Really An Alien Spaceship?

>Jim Oberg

I have had the opportunity, thanks to the kindness of
associates, to review the paper by Hiroshi Nakamura, "Video
Analysis of an anomalous image filmed during Apollo-16" (Journal
of Scientific Exploration, Volume 17, Issue 3,  Fall 2003, pp.
409-432).  I'd like to present my preliminary impressions, while
reserving a more detailed assessment for the future.

The author was quite clear in his view: "We believe that the
object is a large extraterrestrial artifact..... This is the
only hypothesis that is consistent with the data." (p. 431). The
artwork in Figure 12 [p. 424] showed an interpretation of the
images that is a classic 'domed flying saucer' right out of the
1950s.

He concluded: "The measurements and analysis contained in this
paper established that the object captured in this video file is
not Earth, a minor planet, the command module, space debris, or
a photo aberration." He added: "The visual signal of the object
which we showed by this paper is obviously more artificial than
the well-known 'Big WOW' signal. We insist that such an
important signal not be overlooked by the researcher's
prejudices."

It's unclear how much =96 if any =96 editing or peer reviewing was
performed by the editors at JSR, although the author thanked
Bruce Maccabee for suggesting revisions. A number of fundamental
astronomical errors =96 such as referring to the "far dark side"
of the moon, or believing the plural of 'mare' (lunar sea) is
'mares' instead of the correct 'maria' =96 suggest little or
nothing was done.

No competent editor should have allowed such a blatant reliance
on secondary sources of unverified reliability. Instead of
watching the actual 16-mm film, the author merely relied on an
Internet MPEG which had been potentially altered in unknown
ways. Instead of talking to ANY witness =96 the flight crew, the
ground controllers, the photointerpreters (such as the retired
chief of Apollo crew photography, Richard Underwood) =96 the
author merely stated that "Donald Ratsch has claimed that the
footage was taken by Mr. John W. Young", without providing any
argument for believing the hearsay statement.

The actual sequence lasted about 20 seconds on CL-862, and
although it was complete at:

http://www.ufocasebook.com/bestapollo16.avi

it seems to have been sped up by a factor of three. The image
shows the left edge of the sunlit 'limb' of the moon, with the
image in the left portion of that scene, then the camera pans
along the limb, stops, and pans back to the end of the sunlit
limb (where it intersects with the terminator). The half-moon
shape of the image has markedly changed, as if the top half was
no longer illuminated.

The author wrote that "some skeptics claimed the object in
question was Earth", but in actuality, the identification of the
image with Earth (incorrectly, as it turned out) was made by Mr.
Don Pickard, the NASA photo technician who produced the CL-862
film in 1981 and how selected that sequence for inclusion with
other space images that were being widely misrepresented as
'UFOs' in various magazines, books, and documentaries. Pickard
has no opinion about UFOs, so calling him a 'skeptic' is
inappropriate and arguably prejudicial. The author has evidently
neither seen the original CL-862 film or been in touch with Mr.
Pickard.

The abstract stated, "Image analysis is performed to determine
if the object in question is Earth as claimed by Karsten Voigt,
even though James Oberg, who also thought it was Earth, has
retracted that explanation because of work by Jack Kasher." This
is false. I changed my view because, once I had heard of the
objections by Ratsch and Kasher, I performed my own analysis of
the image and identified the craters along the terminator, which
allowed me to determine the camera's line of sight relative to
Earth. I did not, then or now, accept any claims by Ratsch or
Kasher on face value, and in fact have found the vast majority
of their claims regarding astronaut 'UFO imagery' to be
incorrect.

Most of the Nakamura paper was devoted to identifying the lunar
features along the imaged limb, comparing them with other Apollo
lunar imagery and with lunar imagery from the Japanese Nozomi
probe, and using geometrical analysis to locate the observing
point. This appears to have been done competently, if perhaps
unnecessarily since most of what is 'proved' was not in serious
doubt to begin with. But as with the page after page of Apollo
mission event data, it gave the misleading impression of massive
supporting data for the author's conclusions, when in fact none
of the data that occupies more than two thirds of the published
paper has any relevance to the conclusions.

The author acknowledged that he was provided with all requested
images from the Lunar and Planetary Institute (in Houston). He
added, "Unfortunately, their photographs do not have a UFO image
(we cannot judge the rumor that a UFO was blotted out with an
air brush)" [p. 427]. To the best of my knowledge, there is not
and never has been a rumor that any alterations were made to
these images =96 the only source of such a rumor is the author's
own imagination, and if he admits he cannot distinguish between
his own imaginations and provable facts, it is a startling
confession.

The author's "argumentation by elimination" is flawed with
convenient, arbitrary assumptions, as shown by his treatment of
close-in 'space junk' [p. 425]. "It could not have been debris
very close to the Apollo 16 since the UFO images seems [emphasis
added] to be well focused, whereas a nearby object, whether seen
directly through a window or seen as a weak (dim) reflection in
the window, would likely [emphasis added] be out of focus since
the camera was focused on infinity (the moon is well focused).
This distance vs focus argument also rejects the question of
whether or not it could be something attached to the spacecraft
itself which was momentarily illuminated by the sun. Thus for
all of these reasons the object was not a piece of debris or a
part of the command module." However, at the f-stops and film
ASAs typically used for such photography, the depth of field of
a camera set at infinity can range from a meter or two out to
infinity =96 objects quite close to the camera would be within
this range and be in focus. And besides, the mystery image sure
looks out-of-focus to me!

His treatment of the possibility of a window reflection shows
similar "arguing the consequent" with convenient assumptions and
'might-be' assertions. "This raises the question of whether or
not the image could be a reflection in the window of some object
inside the command module. Astronauts routinely might [emphasis
added] have placed their camera lens against the window surface
to avoid reflections [the author appears unaware that the window
had several panes, and he shows no familiarity with any of the
hundreds of Apollo photos which clearly do show internal
reflections]."

"If the lens of the movie camera was not close to the spacecraft
window, then one probably could not reject [emphasis added] the
idea of a reflection . . . as a possible explanation. However,
the redeeming [an interesting choice of words: JO] feature of
this footage is that, as the camera swings over to the 'right
side' of the moon, it would [emphasis added] cause a large
change in the angle of incidence of the reflected image of an
interior object. Thus, if a reflection, the UFO image should
have [emphasis added] moved rapidly over the different areas of
the film scene.  Furthermore, the window's reflection of some
object inside the command module might [emphasis added]
disappear with changes of the position off the camera as it
swings around, whereas the UFO image in the footage is
relatively constant with respect to the moon over this interval.
It is thus unlikely [emphasis added] that the UFO was a
reflection of an interior light or some other interior object."

Here is where some schematic drawings would have helped make the
point about how a reflection would really =96 not 'should' or
'might' =96 behave, but the author evidently made no studies,
performed no analysis, didn't even take a cine camera to a small
window and pan it across exterior targets to see how it and the
window reflections behaved. All of the above 'reflection'
arguments are purely 'thought experiments', imaginary and
unprovable, and quite possibly preordained by the desire to
eliminate this prosaic explanation's plausibility.

My own familiarity with astronaut photography through small
windows makes the reflection hypothesis attractive. The shape of
the image matches the shape of the lens of the cine camera, or
potentially some other round illuminated object viewed
obliquely. Panning the camera does NOT involve swinging the
camera as the astronaut rotates his body (the way you might do
it outside on Earth), but involves translating the camera-
astronaut sideways while rotating around an axis passing through
the window =96 because the camera lens must remain in position to
see through that window. And that implies =96 try this at home, by
all means =96 that the reflections would NOT significantly move,
as the author mistakenly alleged. At a given range to the glass,
the camera position relative to the window cannot be changed, or
it would no longer be able to see out that window.

In the end, by declaring that a reflection is 'unlikely', the
author argues that an alien spaceship is MORE likely. This
strikes me as an unlikely scenario, inadequately argued. And by
omitting the testimony of the three men on the scene =96 they each
told me, individually, that they recall seeing nothing outside
their windows in that period except the moon =96 and the other
photography from the crew (no object in view), along with the
air-to-ground radio conversations and the post-flight debriefing
transcripts, all of which make no mention of any such
apparition, the article is at the very least fatally incomplete,
and at worst, misleading.


James Oberg








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                        02-04 Update From Rich Dolan

From: Richard Dolan <keyhole.nul>
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 14:13:02 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 14:11:04 -0500
Subject: 02-04 Update From Rich Dolan



Greetings. In case you haven't noticed, I don't send out many of
these updates. The last one was several months ago.

The lack of frequent updates doesn't mean I haven't been busy. I
continue to research Volume Two of my study, UFOs and the
National Security State. This will take the history of the UFO
phenomenon and the US national security community from the early
1970s to the present day. Finally, I am able happily to report
that the research is proceeding well. During the past few years,
this was a stop and go situation, where a good month would be
followed by one or more slow months. However, momentum has
picked up since latter 2003, and I hope to continue riding this
nice wave. If I were to stop all research and write the book
based on my current notes, I imagine it would be about a 350
page book. However, I am planning for around 500 pages and
intend to spend the rest of 2004 gathering my data. I don't
consider it entirely unreasonable to have the book done by the
latter half of 2005.

A major reason for the slowdown is simply the existence of other
commitments. I continue to write and edit articles on UFOs and
related topics for Phenomena Magazine. Unlike articles I wrote
between 2001 and 2003, these are not yet available online. You
can click here to read about the magazine's current issue. My
article is on remote viewing, and in particular is an attempt to
understand just why and how it works. I was fortunate to have
the input of several leading remote viewers in the preparation
of this article.

I was pleased recently to speak at the International UFO
Congress in Laughlin, Nevada, earlier this month. My topic was
"The Greatest Show in the Quadrant: Humanity's Impending Flame-
Out." It is my growing belief that we as a civilization are
driving pedal to the metal toward a sheer cliff. There are a
number of possible culprits that could very easily send us over
the edge (ecological disaster, climate change, wars, terrorism,
etc.), but I focused my presentation on one possible cause with
special relevance to the UFO research field: the probability of
a major shortfall in fossil fuel energy production. North
America is already experiencing a serious crisis in the
production of natural gas =96 this is a permanent, long-term
situation. There is good reason to believe that global
production of petroleum is near its own peak level (indeed, we
have yet to reach the global production of 2000, so that peak
could well have already come and gone).

Aside from the obvious relevance to our civilization and indeed
our lives, the topic is relevant to the UFO phenomenon. At least
when considering the likelihood of exotic technologies that are
held at secret installations such as Area 51 and elsewhere. Are
there answers to the coming natural gas and petroleum crises
held in the deep-black world? Two decades of observational
evidence and insider leaks indicate the answer could well be
"yes."

With each passing year, the U.S. media and its citizenry more
and more resemble Russian peasants in the days of the czar. The
attitude can be summed up as, "well, they'll let us run out of
oil, then introduce whatever secret replacement they've
developed." That is, when people think about this at all.
Personally, I'm not especially happy (or confident) about the
idea of our national security state bailing us out at the
eleventh hour.

This passivity is a grave threat to our freedom and possibly our
very survival. For instance, consider how the major media have
handled the existence of sightings of exotic craft in the last
twenty years. One example that comes to mind is that of the
great sightings of perfectly triangular craft over Belgium and
elsewhere in Europe at the end of 1989 and into 1990. This
involved an exceptional vehicle (or several vehicles) seen by
thousands of eyewitnesses and tracked on radar by the Belgian
Royal Air Force. Intercepting F-16 jets were thoroughly
outclassed by this vehicle that moved silently, swiftly, with
instant acceleration, and so on.

As many will recall, this incident elicited some mainstream
comment, mostly in the form of "well, it's probably some
experimental aircraft." In other words, if it's not "alien,"
it's not important.

Well, okay. So what IF it was one of "ours"? Isn't this
interesting? Isn't this important? After all, what makes it go?
What is its source of energy? Etc. etc. etc. This event was 15
years ago, and to this day there is no officially acknowledge
aircraft that can do the things that triangle could do.

The answer to that question is very important, and I don't see
people asking it. Certainly a total silence from our supposed
"watchdogs" in mainstream journalism. But we all know better
about them by now, don't we? Yes, I think we do.

I also must mention the upcoming X-Conference in Washington DC,
scheduled for April 17 and 18, and organized by Stephen Bassett.
Many of you probably know that Steve ran for Congress on the UFO
Disclosure issue and continues to work hard toward this goal.
The conference will focus on the governmental, political and
media aspects of 50+ years of UFO engagement and official
denial, and it shows all the signs of becoming an important
event in the history of international UFO politics. I am very
pleased and honored to be one of the speakers.

In addition to myself, other speakers will be: Stephen Bassett,
Dr. William Birnes, Grant Cameron (Canada), Philip Corso, Jr.,
Paul Davids, Ann Druffel, Stanton Friedman (Canada), Timothy
Good (United Kingdom), Dr. Steven Greer, William Hamilton, Terry
Hansen, Paola Harris (Italy), Richard Hoagland, Linda Moulton
Howe, Dr. C.B. Scott Jones, Jim Marrs, Dr. Bruce Maccabee, Nick
Pope (United Kingdom), Peter Robbins, Dr. Michael Salla
(Australia), Dr. Richard Sauder, Dr. Robert Wood, Ryan Wood.

If you are able to attend this important conference, I urge you
to go. It promises to be a hell-raiser.

More information on this conference is available at
http://www.paradigmclock.com/X_Conference/X_Conference.htm

Later this year, I will also be speaking at the UFO & Abduction
Conference in Roswell, New Mexico during the Fourth of July
weekend. The full list of speakers so far is: Bill Alnor,
Stephen Bassett, Richard Dolan, Ann Druffel, David Flynn, John
Greenewald, Mike Heiser, Jim Hickman, Joe Jordan, Eve Lorgen,
Guy Malone, David Sereda, Chris Ward, and Jim Wilhelmsen.

For more information about this conference, see:
http://www.ancientofdays.net/

Finally, I will be appearing on the new radio-web show Dark
Matters, hosted by Don Ecker and Dwight Schultz this Saturday,
February 28. The show airs on a live feed 8 p.m. Pacific
Standard Time (11 p.m. EST). If you miss it, it's archived.
Check http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Dark_Matters/ to learn about
the show. To listen, go to http://www.realityradionetwork.com
and click on "Saturday 11 - 2"

As always, I am happy to conduct private correspondence via
email, but ask for your forgiveness if my reply is occasionally
not immediate. I always do my best.


Best regards,

Rich Dolan

http://keyholepublishing.com









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                  Re: Whittlesea-Beveridge Photo - Golubic

From: Victor Golubic <Peetkin.nul>
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 15:59:00 EST
Fwd Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 14:12:34 -0500
Subject: Re: Whittlesea-Beveridge Photo - Golubic


>From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 02:45:38 EST
>Subject: Whittlesea-Beveridge Photo

>I don't see how any serious analysis of the Whittlesea-Beveridge
>photo can possibly be done without knowing the Field of View
>(FOV), in degrees, of the picture that was taken. Yet despite
>all the various postings on this case, including Kodak DC240
>digital camera data, not one single person has posted the FOV in
>Degrees or even raised the question of its absence from analyses
>until now. Without the FOV in Degrees you cannot tell how high
>in degrees the "UFO" was in the sky or what direction various
>objects in the photo were really at. How can you analyze the
>photo without that kind of data?

>I contacted Kodak for information on the FOV for the DC240 but
>the camera is no longer produced and they did not have the data.
>At best they guessed from various file data that the Wide Angle
>lens would give about a 85.5 degrees wide FOV, but that was a
>guess based on interpreting various parameters and possibly
>interpreted them wrong, by a low-level customer service
>representative. My own rough estimate of the FOV from
>measurements of objects of approximately known size is roughly
>100 degrees.

>All of the argument earlier on this list about conflicting
>direction of sun shadows was due to the fact that in a wide
>angle view the objects that look like they are almost in front
>of you are actually way off to one side in a significantly
>different direction. Thus the control box to the left side of
>the photo looks like the sun is coming down on the front and
>sides yet the railroad crossing signs directly in front of the
>camera look like the sun is behind them. Both are right. Why?
>Because straight ahead is W (West) but the control box off to
>the left is about in the SW (South West), a considerably
>different direction.

>What is needed is the FOV measured directly from the camera used
>and an interview with the photographer so there is no
>uncertainty about what lens was used and at what setting.


>Brad Sparks

Interested parties:

Given the statement that the camera operates optically from,
what I assume is 1.0X through 3.0X optically with a zoom
equivalent focal length on a 35 millimeter camera of 39-117 mm,
the actual focal length as stated, is instead, 6 to 18 mm for
the DC240.

Therefore, with the given information, one can assume that the
CCD measures approximately 6 millimeters diagonally (assumed,
but could be purely horizontal), with an aspect ratio (width to
height) of 2.6/3.4 (as measured from various pages both
featuring and stating these width to height values).

With that given, at normal mode (non wide angle settings)
the FOV "diagonally" is probably very close to:

1X magnification - 2 * Arctan((6/2)/6) = 53.1 Degrees.
...therefore, horizontally the FOV is 44.0 Degrees
...and vertically the FOV is 33.7 Degrees

3X magnification - 2 * Arctan((6/2)/18) = 18.9 Degrees.
...therefore, horizontally the FOV is 15.7 Degrees
...and vertically the FOV is 12.0 Degrees

And, assuming the lens behaves linearly,
2X magnification - 2 * Arctan((6/2)/12) = 28.1 Degrees
...therefore, horizontally the FOV is 24.7 Degrees
...and vertically the FOV is 17.8 Degrees

One may then interpolate any increments between these values
depending upon the zoom setting at the time and place the image
was recorded.

For wide angle settings, I've sent questions to various testing
resource outfits and await a response.  Other than that, testing
the camera and interviewing the witness, as Brad has stated, is
the only logical course of action.


Victor Golubic






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                        Re: V-Shaped Objects? - Hatch

From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 03:33:51 -0800
Fwd Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 09:13:24 -0500
Subject: Re: V-Shaped Objects? - Hatch


>From: Amy Hebert <vanguard.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 00:32:59 -0600
>Subject: V-Shaped Objects?

>Below is a link to an interesting article a friend sent to me
>about "V-shaped" objects being launched from Texas.

>http://www.defensetech.org/archives/000742.html

> A. Hebert


Hello Amy:


Interesting. My next question is, How long has the military been
playing with these?  Do they sometimes display lites on their
corners for safety purposes or tracking?


Best

- Larry







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                        Astronaut: We've Had Visitors

From: Max Dean Parsons, Sr. <mparsons1.nul>
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 09:18:02 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 09:18:02 -0500
Subject: Astronaut: We've Had Visitors


Source: St. Petersburg Times - Florida

http://www.sptimes.com/2004/02/18/Neighborhoodtimes/Astronaut__We_ve_had_.shtml

February 18, 2004

Astronaut: We've had visitors

The sixth man to walk on the moon shares his unconventional
views.

By Waveney Ann Moore
Times Staff Writer

St. Petersburg - The aliens have landed.

Thus declared Apollo 14 astronaut Edgar Mitchell on Saturday to
more than 200 admirers.

"A few insiders know the truth... and are studying the bodies
that have been discovered," said Mitchell, who was the sixth man
to walk on the moon. Mitchell, who landed on the moon with Alan
B. Shepard, said a "cabal" of insiders stopped briefing
presidents about extraterrestrials after President Kennedy.
[more]

**URL:















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                   'The Phoenix Lights' By Dr. Lynne Kitei

From: Geoffrey Richardson <geoff.nul>
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 16:56:25 -0000
Fwd Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 09:28:08 -0500
Subject: 'The Phoenix Lights' By Dr. Lynne Kitei


On 13th March 1997, an event took place in the skies over
Arizona. At approximately 7-50p.m. a "V-shaped" formation of
bright blue/yellow-white orbs were observed leaving the Las
Vegas area (Nevada) and flying at speed over the border into
Arizona.

The object was observed to travel over the Phoenix area and then
on to Tucson - via a 300 mile corridor.

The "V-shaped" formation was observed by thousands of people -
from truck drivers to physicians and children to lawyers,
including air traffic controllers at Phoenix commercial
airport.This series of incidents became known as "The Phoenix
Lights".

However, "unknown" objects had been observed in the Arizona
skies for over two years and during this time photographic and
video evidence was captured by a local physician - Dr. Lynne
Kitei. Dr. Lynne has finally authored a remarkable book which
will has recently been published.

Dr. Lynne�s book provides a detailed account of a momentous
incident which will not only be of inestimable value to
Ufologists but also provide comfort to those who have had a
convincing UFO sighting themselves and have questions they need
to answer.

This is not just a book for �UFO buffs� though, being authored
with such clarity of thought and expression, it is a book that
should be a fascinating read for everyone".

A review of Dr. Lynne's book,

"The Phoenix Lights - a Skeptic's Discovery That We Are Not
Alone"

is available at the WHY? Files - see "The Phoenix Lights ".

http://www.thewhyfiles.co.uk


Geoff Richardson






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                               UFOs & Fairies?

From: Thiago Luiz Ticchetti <thiagolt.nul>
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 15:51:15 -0300
Fwd Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 09:30:14 -0500
Subject: UFOs & Fairies?



Hello List

I would like to know if anyone has information about the
correlation between UFOs and fairies, mythology, legends,
folklore and so on.

Thank you very much.


Thiago Luiz Ticchetti
vice-presidente EBE-ET/Brasilia/DF
International Coordinator UFO Magazine Brazil







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                   Witnesses Report Seeing Fireball In Sky

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 12:40:19 -0800
Fwd Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 09:35:33 -0500
Subject: Witnesses Report Seeing Fireball In Sky


Source: ABC 7 News - Denver,Colorado

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/2876236/detail.html

February 26, 2004

Witnesses Report Seeing Fireball In Sky
Meteor Streaks Over Metro Area Around 6:30 PM


DENVER -- If you saw something unusual in the night sky above
Colorado Wednesay night, you weren't alone.

Many people called 7NEWS to report a fireball around 6:30 p.m.
and the Museum of Nature and Science said it was likely a
meteor.

"I did see the meteor as clear as day," said viewer Annmarie
Maynard, who was in Westminster at the time. "I would say it
came down in the mountains. It was not streaking across the sky
but in a rather quick descent."

"I live on the Western slope in Crawford, and was traveling to
Paonia at 6:30 last night, when in the northeast I saw a huge
meteor fall and explode above the earth. It seemed like it was
right there, and I felt very privileged to have witnessed such
an event," said Kim Johnson, another viewer.

"We live in Loveland and saw a ball (white with a bright green
tail) go over the house and it seemed very big and low and I
even thought it landed in our 60 acres. Before getting that low,
it seemed to go out," said viewer Rosemary Barry. "I have seen
falling stars but nothing ever like this one. Pretty strange
sighting."

Scientists at the Museum of Nature and Science are looking for
people who may have seen it. They're interested in where the
meteor was seen, where it possibly landed and if any video or
pictures were taken. If you saw the fireball Wednesday night,
report your sighting on Cloudbait.com.










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                         Re: The Illuminati - White

From: Eleanor White <eleanor.nul>
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 16:09:59 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 09:36:57 -0500
Subject: Re: The Illuminati - White


>From: Robert Gates <RGates8254.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 01:29:50 EST
>Subject: Re: The Illuminati

<snip>

>>don't have either the first hand knowledge or the time to
>>debate this, I'm just passing on what I hear all day every day
>>from the shortwave shows.

>Alot of what is on shortwave radio is drival at best, so extreme
>care should be used when repeating it.

The shows I listen to usually cite their references, and urge
listeners to "not believe them [hosts]" but check the sources. I
would say that by far the greater drivel is heard from
mainstream sources, who often ignore real issues and fill your
TV screen, radio speaker, or printed pages with frivolous
nonsense. Many of the _opinions_ expressed on shortwave I don't
buy, but the considerable amount of cited evidence is more than
worth the time to listen.

The internal bombs planted in the Oklahoma City federal building
were one example of issues that never make it to mainstream
outlets.


Eleanor White







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                          Re: Magazine UK - Harney

From: John Harney <magonia.nul>
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 19:51:49 -0000
Fwd Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 09:39:35 -0500
Subject: Re: Magazine UK - Harney


>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 20:51:13 -0500
>Subject: Re: Magazine UK

>>From: Stuart Miller <Stuart.Miller4.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 10:25:34 -0000
>>Subject: Re: Magazine UK

>>"Ding". That is the first chime of an alarm bell going off in my
>>head. We do not number our magazine like that, unless you are
>>referring to a very old copy.

Yes, I can't find any volume numbers or serial numbers on the
cover or anywhere else in UFO Magazine, except for the ISSN
(which, curiously, is referred to as "ISNN").

>You don't know your own magazine! I was quoting from the cover
>that clearly states, "Volume 24, No. 1", which I had just
>purchased for that purpose from the local bookstore-news stand.
>I was quoting the printing of the volume and issue numbers as
>stated to the upper right side of the cover of that January,
>2004, issue.

No, no, my copy certainly does not have "Volume 24, No. 1" on
the cover, or anywhere else. It merely has "January 2004" to
identify which issue it is.

>I suggest you look at it yourself and apologize for your errant
>haste. I would remind you that the cover features a trisket
>(three-armed) crop circle, a photo of Tory leader Michael
>Howard, mention that "Fleetwood Lights Return!", and, also,
>"Abduction Research Funding Approved", etc. Sound familiar?

That's right, except for the "Volume 24 No.1" bit. Have another
look, Ray, and tell us if you can still see it.


John Harney







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                        Brisbane, Australia Sighting

From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO <hbccufo.nul>
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 13:05:49 -0800
Fwd Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 09:41:09 -0500
Subject: Brisbane, Australia Sighting


Brisbane, Australia

Date: Early 1982
Time: 7:30 to 8:00 p.m.

A lady telephoned me and wanted to report a sighting she and
another had in Brisbane, Australia back in 1982. She was living
in a two story apartment building which was located on top of a
hill and had been living there for eighteen months. Also the
building they lived in was right over top of the flight path for
their major airport. The jet airliners would come in very low
and the lady said it almost felt as if the wheels of these
aircraft were skimming across the roof. So she was used to
hearing and seeing the large aircraft fly over her home.

One evening the couple felt a vibration which was different from
the normal aircraft. Actually the vibration traveled straight
through their bodies. Thinking something was not right they went
to their living room window which had a beautiful view of the
city. What they saw was certainly unusual. The brightest object
passed right overhead. The witness told me that it looked like
burning magnesium as this was the best example the lady was able
to think of. Whatever it was, was extremely large and very
bright. The woman said it was a brilliant blue/white in color
and it was blinking, or pulsating off and on. When it pulsed off
they were not able to see anything until the light returned and
it was only the bright light which was seen.

As it moved slowly through the night sky the object came to a
stop over southern Brisbane. It was at this point high up in the
sky it again disappeared due to the light going out and when the
light returned the object was in a completely different
location. It all happened so quickly they wondered how it was
possible that any craft was able to move so fast and so far away
from it's last location. This continued for some time, blinking
off and on and again appearing in a different part of the sky.
The lady said they watched the object for an hour and a half.
Just before it left the airspace it was in, the object split
into two separate lights. Both of them were now blinking on and
off and the colors were amazing she said. She also added the
object was shooting off what looked like flares and again these
were colored as well. After a short time the two parts joined
into one large object again then split into four pieces and now
throwing off a large number of what they described as colored
flares. Once again all the four separate parts came together
forming one large brilliant object and started flying westward
towards the desert. The witness said it was very exciting to
watch from their veranda.

The lady went on to say they knew it wasn't anything that
mankind had as she knew of no technology that would be able to
perform the aerial acrobatics this object had done that night in
a split second.

Something interesting the lady also mentioned was that the
international airport had flights arriving and departing
approximately every fifteen minutes. She said for the whole time
the object sat over Brisbane there was not a flight to be seen
coming or going or flying above. As the lady reported above.....
the object left, heading west into the desert over the Great
Dividing Mountain Range. She was so excited at what she had seen
she could not go to bed.  It was a warm night so she sat
 looking toward the mountain where the object had headed.
Approximately thirty minutes after the object was out of her
sight a group of lights appeared in the distance where the
object was last seen. The lights were coming closer and it
appeared that they were following the same track the object was
traveling, just back tracking. As the lights drew closer and
then passed right over top of their apartment the woman was able
to see and hear what these objects were. There were four or five
military helicopters that were flying in overhead.

After the helicopters passed by and out of her sight the normal
air traffic resumed their flights.

The witness called the airport the following day and the folks
there denied that something had taken place the night before.
There was nothing in the local newspapers or on radio or
television. The folks wondered if they had been the only ones
watching the drama unfold in the skies that night. They never
did find out what it was or find any other people who may have
watched the same event.


Thank you to the witness for the report.

Brian Vike
Director
HBCC UFO Research
Home - Phone 250 845 2189
email: hbccufo.nul
Website: http://www.hbccufo.com







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                 The Rosetta Disk By The Long Now Foundation

From: Terry W. Colvin <fortean1.nul>
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 14:17:30 -0700
Fwd Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 09:45:44 -0500
Subject: The Rosetta Disk By The Long Now Foundation


(Another Rosetta news item)

Besides carrying the instruments of my work groups, the Rosetta
spacecraft is carrying a 'Rosetta Disk' mounted under the
thermal  blankets of the orbiter, made by the Long Now
Foundation:

http://www.longnow.org/10klibrary/RosettaMission.htm


{begin quote}

This broad collection of creation stories is intended both as an
icon for the mission as well as a functional language recovery
tool for potential finders in unknown futures.

As an iconic object, the creation stories suggest a mythic frame
for the Rosetta Mission as it journeys to the Comet
67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenko to elaborate our understanding of the
scientific story of planetary genesis.

And as a linguistic tool, the 1,000 parallel Genesis
translations creates a contemporary version of the historic
Rosetta Stone, enabling finders to work from known languages to
decipher those on the disk unknown at the time of finding.

Whether the finders are human or otherwise, this broad archive
of human languages will hopefully offer a glimpse into the range
and diversity of vernacular symbolic systems used by the peoples
and cultures that have collectively sent the spacecraft.

This Rosetta Mission Rosetta Disk is a small platter of pure
nickel, 70mm in diameter and 0.3 mm thick, weighing 6-7 grams.

The 7,000 pages are micro-etched into the nickel as physical
images (think engraving at a very small scale), with each page
about a half millimeter tall.

Reading the texts on the disk requires a 500X microscope.

This high-density analog storage technology avoids the operating
system, application and format dependencies of digital storage
systems as well as the fast material decay rates of typical
digital storage media.

{end quote}

--

****************************************************************


Amara Graps, PhD
Istituto di Fisica dello Spazio Interplanetario, INAF - ARTOV,
Via del Fosso del Cavaliere, 100, I-00133 Roma, ITALIA


--

"Only a zit on the wart on the heinie of progress." Copyright
1992, Frank Rice


Terry W. Colvin, Sierra Vista, Arizona (USA)
fortean1.nul






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                    Carbon Found Older Than Solar System

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 14:52:04 -0800
Fwd Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 09:49:02 -0500
Subject: Carbon Found Older Than Solar System



Source: Eureka Alert

The American Association for the Advancement of Science (AAAS)

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2004-02/wuis-cft022504.php

26-Feb-2004

Carbon Found To Be Older Than The Solar System

For the first time, researchers have identified organic material
in interplanetary dust particles (IDPs), gathered from the
Earth's stratosphere, that was made before the birth of our
Solar System.

The material was identified on the basis of its carbon isotopic
composition, which is different from the carbon found on Earth
and in other parts of the Solar System. Isotopes are variations
of elements that differ from each other in the number of
neutrons they have, making them similar chemically but different
physically.

Christine Floss, Ph.D., senior research scientist in Earth and
Planetary Sciences and Physics at Washington University in St.
Louis, said that the organic material in the IDP she and her
colleagues analyzed probably was formed in molecular clouds in
the interstellar medium before the formation of the Solar
System. The isotopic anomalies are produced by chemical
fractionation at the very low temperatures found in these
molecular clouds.

"Our findings are proof that there is presolar organic material
coming into the Solar System yet today," Floss said. "This
material has been preserved for more than 4.5 billion years,
which is the age of the Solar System. It's amazing that it has
survived for so long."

The finding helps in understanding the Solar System's formation
and the origin of organic matter on Earth. The work was
published in the Feb. 27, 2004 issue of Science, and was
supported by NASA grants.

Over the past 20 years, researchers have found isotopic
anomalies in nitrogen and hydrogen from IDPs but never before in
carbon. Floss said one of the reasons for this was the
limitations of earlier instruments. She and her colleagues used
a new type of ion microprobe called the NanoSIMS, which enables
researchers to analyze particles at much greater spatial
resolution and higher sensitivity than before. Until recently,
ion probes could only measure the average properties of an IDP.
In 2000, with help from NASA and the National Science
Foundation, the University bought the first commercially
available NanoSIMS. Made by Cameca in Paris, the NanoSIMS can
resolve particles as small as 100 nanometers in diameter. A
hundred thousand such particles side-by-side would make a
centimeter. Typical sub-grains in IDPs range from 100 nanometers
to 500 nanometers.

"The question has always been: Why don't we see any unusual
carbon isotopic compositions?" Floss said. "The thinking was if
the nitrogen and hydrogen isotopic anomalies are formed in the
same regions of space, it was logical to expect unusual carbon
isotopic compositions as well. One school of thought was that
there were different fractionation processes with carbon in
opposite directions, that cancelled out any anomalies produced.
Another possibility was that the nitrogen and hydrogen might
have been produced in phases that weren't originally organic --
that the organic material itself was formed in the solar system
and basically inherited the hydrogen and nitrogen isotopic
compositions from some precursor material. But our isotopic
analysis shows that the organic material was formed before the
Solar System existed and was later incorporated into the IDP."

Floss and Frank Stadermann, Ph.D., Washington University senior
research scientist in Physics, worked with colleagues at
Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory in drawing their
conclusions.

"A lot of IDPs come from comets," Floss said. "It makes sense
that organic material would be preserved in a very cold
environment, such as where comets form at the edge of the Solar
System. For something to stay this pristine and primitive, one
can assume that it came from that kind of environment."

Floss said it's estimated that, over a million years, about a
centimeter of carbonaceous material comes in the form of such
cosmic dust and a significant amount of that material may be
presolar in origin.

Floss said that her work builds on the pioneering work of the
late Robert Walker, Ph.D., professor of Physics at Washington
University. Walker was instrumental in the acquisition of the
NanoSIMS and in the 1980s made landmark studies verifying the
extraterrestrial origin of such stratospheric dust particles.









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               Re: NASA & Soviet Astronauts And UFOs - LeClair

From: Aaron LeClair <force.nul>
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 18:29:10 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 09:51:03 -0500
Subject: Re: NASA & Soviet Astronauts And UFOs - LeClair


>From: Giuliano Marinkovic <giuliano.marinkovic.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 12:08:47 +0100
>Subject: Re: NASA & Soviet Astronauts And UFOs

>Thanks for the confirmation of the hoax of the alleged 'Apollo
>11 comunications' (Maurice Chatellain and other folklore etc)...
>Few years ago, I have tried to confirm those allegations inside
>hamradio community because I am hamradio operator myself.

<snip>

This article might interest you:

http://www.etcontact.net/Newsite/FullText.asp?ID=501

I haven't been able to fish out the AP news report mentioned at
the page linked above. Mcdivitt had a sighting. So far as I
know, it's legit. Buzz, and Neil is still in my rumor file.
Cooper had ufo related incidents, tho, not in space, as I
recall.










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                          Re: Magazine UK - Miller

From: Stuart Miller <Stuart.Miller4.nul>
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 15:00:09 -0000
Fwd Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 09:58:53 -0500
Subject: Re: Magazine UK - Miller


>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 20:51:13 -0500
>Subject: Re: Magazine UK

>>From: Stuart Miller <Stuart.Miller4.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 10:25:34 -0000
>>Subject: Re: Magazine UK

>>>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 20:00:40 -0500
>>>Subject: Re: Magazine UK

><snip>

>>>Do you think Colin responded? Of course not, he preferred to
>>>have dowsers out in the fields with him! LMAO!
>>>Concerning crop patterns, your magazine acts even worse, if
>>>that's possible. In your Volume 24, number 1, page 27,
>>>describing two highly dubious crop 'messages', as (and I quote):

>>"Ding". That is the first chime of an alarm bell going off in my
>>head. We do not number our magazine like that, unless you are
>>referring to a very old copy.

>Stuart,

>You don't know your own magazine! I was quoting from the cover
>that clearly states, "Volume 24, No. 1", which I had just
>purchased for that purpose from the local bookstore-news stand.
>I was quoting the printing of the volume and issue numbers as
>stated to the upper right side of the cover of that January,
>2004, issue.

>I suggest you look at it yourself and apologize for your errant
>haste. I would remind you that the cover features a trisket
>(three-armed) crop circle, a photo of Tory leader Michael
>Howard, mention that "Fleetwood Lights Return!", and, also,
>"Abduction Research Funding Approved", etc. Sound familiar?

>A lack of research seems typical of you and, IMO, your magazine.


Ray

Copies of the magazine, as published in the UK, do not have the
designations you describe. They just simply have the month and
the year. If you then deduce that I don't know my own magazine
from that observation, then you are right.

I am now asking you, publicly, for the third time, to state the
particular issue of the magazine in which you allege this
copyright breach occurred. I'll spell it out clearly. Put up or
shut up.

Your last reply yesterday was a perfect example of
grandstanding. You have shouted very loudly Ray and yet don't
seem to want to come through with the evidence.


Stuart Miller







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               Re: Tracing The Flow Of The Gulf Breeze Money -

From: Jerry Black <gulfbreezeinfo.nul>
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 17:26:18 -0800 (PST)
Fwd Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 10:12:58 -0500
Subject: Re: Tracing The Flow Of The Gulf Breeze Money -

>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 16:29:50 -0500
>Subject: Re: Tracing The Flow Of The Gulf Breeze Money

>>From: Jerry Black <gulfbreezeinfo.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 19:13:29 -0800 (PST)
>>Subject: Tracing The Flow Of The Gulf Breeze Money


To Bruce Maccabee & all Interested Parties:

Mr. Bruce Maccabee, you claim you never knew about a large sum
of money donated to the MUFON organization by Ed Walters for the
sole purpose of helping finance the Gulf Breeze sightings
investigation. As tight as you were with Ed Walters from the
very beginning, do you expect me to believe that Vivkie Lyons,
Charles Flannigan, and Rex Salisberry (who learned about the
money directly from Walters� lips), all knew and you didn�t
know?

Rex Salisberry told me some weeks ago as I was researching his
memories about the subject: "Bruce knew about the money."

Your continued arrogance in denying that you knew about the
payments, when all the evidence shows you had to know, forces me
to make the following statement: In my opinion, you, sir, are not
telling the truth.

I intend to prove that statement over the next several months,
as I show step-by-step how you and Mr. Walt Andrus proceeded on
your biased and one-sided investigation.

Jerry Black can be reached at:

1-877-731-8400
P.O. Box 125
Blanchester
Ohio 45107







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                Re: Subject: Re: Whittlesea-Beveridge Photo -

From: Tom DeMary <t.demary.nul>
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 00:30:23 -0600
Fwd Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 16:29:41 -0500
Subject: Re: Subject: Re: Whittlesea-Beveridge Photo -


>From: Victor Golubic <Peetkin.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 15:59:00 EST
>Subject: Re: Whittlesea-Beveridge Photo - Golubic

<snip>

>Given the statement that the camera operates optically from,
>what I assume is 1.0X through 3.0X optically with a zoom
>equivalent focal length on a 35 millimeter camera of 39-117 mm,
>the actual focal length as stated, is instead, 6 to 18 mm for
>the DC240.

>Therefore, with the given information, one can assume that the
>CCD measures approximately 6 millimeters diagonally (assumed,
>but could be purely horizontal), with an aspect ratio (width to
>height) of 2.6/3.4 (as measured from various pages both
>featuring and stating these width to height values).

<snip>

Victor,

Your math is sound, and a 6 mm diagonal is a reasonable
assumption, but you are in effect assuming the FOV, since it is
determined by sensor size and focal length of the lens. The
sensor size could be from 4 to 9mm, which makes a big difference
in the angle of the Field of View, if the focal length was 10mm,
as given in the EXIF data.


>For wide angle settings, I've sent questions to various testing
>resource outfits and await a response. Other than that, testing
>the camera and interviewing the witness, as Brad has stated, is
>the only logical course of action.

The camera, as far as I can tell, has no wide angle setting - it
has a zoom lens (39 - 117mm as stated above). 39mm is not very
wide. The camera does have an optional accessory lens, which
fits over its zoom, to give a wide angle 35mm equivalent of
24mm, as Brad Sparks mentioned in material I snipped out.

I thought that the 35mm equivalency was straight-forward, until
I saw this is a link that explains three different ways that
camera makers can specify it:

http://www.panoramafactory.com/equiv35/equiv35.html

These proliferating low-end digital cameras are all about ease
and convenience, with very little useful documentation
about their photographic specifics.


Tom DeMary







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                        'Flying Saucer' In The Hills

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 07:04:28 -0800
Fwd Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 16:31:00 -0500
Subject: 'Flying Saucer' In The Hills



Source: The Manchester News - UK

http://www.manchesteronline.co.uk/news/stories/Detail_LinkStory=3D82484.html

'Flying Saucer' In The Hills

Friday, 27th February 2004

Is it a halo or a flying saucer?

Whatever way you look at plans for a massive monument for
Rossendale - just unveiled - it will certainly be a dominant
feature of the skyline to visitors approaching the Valley.

The intention is that the circular steel mesh creation will be
lit from underneath to make it appear as if it is hovering above
the hillside gateway into Rossendale at Top o' Slate above
Haslingden.

It has been called the Halo by its designer, John Kennedy, of
Tockholes, near Darwen, but is more likely to be dubbed the
flying saucer, especially as Rossendale is part of "UFO alley"
because of sightings.

John is planning to have his Halo - 20 metres in diameter -
 standing five metres off the ground on a tripod. The cost, in
the region of =A350,000, will be met by the North West Development
Agency and the East Lancashire Partnership.

His design was chosen from 188 ideas in a competition.

Other East Lancashire landmarks were his inspiration, among them
Darwen Tower, which had the appearance of a comic strip "Flash
Gordon" rocket.

And he admitted that the idea of a UFO was in his mind.

What do you think of the Halo?









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   Feb > Feb 27

                          Secrecy News -- 02/27/04

From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood.nul>
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 10:02:02 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 16:33:26 -0500
Subject: Secrecy News -- 02/27/04


SECRECY NEWS
from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy
Volume 2004, Issue No. 23
February 27, 2004


**      PENTAGON PUBLISHES INTELLIGENCE BUDGET DATA
**      DDI MISCIK ON THE STATE OF ANALYSIS AT CIA
**      BILL HARLOW, ZEN MASTER
**      IAEA REPORT ON IRAN
**      IS THE RECIPE FOR RICIN ON THE INTERNET?
**      OTHER NEWS AND RESOURCES


PENTAGON PUBLISHES INTELLIGENCE BUDGET DATA

In an implicit repudiation of the Director of Central
Intelligence's budget secrecy policies, the Pentagon has
published proposed 2005 spending figures for classified
intelligence research and development programs and for
procurement of classified equipment by defense intelligence
agencies.

According to the DCI, public disclosure of a single aggregate
figure for all intelligence-related spending would damage
national security and compromise intelligence sources and
methods. (And even fifty year old budget data remain classified
at CIA.)

But although DCI Tenet swore under penalty of perjury that such
secrecy was necessary, his views on the subject do not command
respect, not even at the Pentagon, which has included more
detailed and current intelligence spending figures in its latest
budget request.

Thus, the Pentagon is asking for close to $4.1 billion in
intelligence research and development funds and $544 million in
procurement funds in FY 2005 "for classified equipment procured
by the Defense Intelligence Agency, National Geospatial
Intelligence Agency, National Security Agency, and the
Counterintelligence Field Activity." The figures represent a
slight decrease from the current year.

The figures themselves are fairly opaque and do not begin to
reveal the substance of the programs they fund. Which is why
there are no grounds for classifying them, let alone a much
broader aggregation of all intelligence spending government-
wide.

The intelligence budget data sheets were published on the DoD
Comptroller web site, and were reported on February 26 by John
Liang in InsideDefense.com. They are excerpted here:

http://www.fas.org/irp/agency/dod/fy05class.pdf


DDI MISCIK ON THE STATE OF ANALYSIS AT CIA

CIA Deputy Director for Intelligence (DDI) Jami A. Miscik
presented her view of the "state of analysis" at CIA in a
February 11 speech that was alternately defensive and self-
critical.

"First and foremost, you need to know our integrity has held
firm," she declared. "Our integrity goes hand-in-hand with our
analytic objectivity."

But she admitted analytical failures, such as the continued
reliance on an intelligence source that had been tagged as a
fabricator, while noting that CIA had discovered and
acknowledged the lapse at its own initiative.

Ms. Miscik expressed uncertainty about the proper format for the
President's Daily Brief and the relationship between the
National Intelligence Council and the Directorate of
Intelligence.

She also observed that analysts in CIA's Directorate of
Intelligence are "younger, more junior and more inexperienced
than ever before."

And she announced "a new requirement for a one-day Tradecraft
Refresher Course that will be mandatory for all analysts and
managers.... This is that serious."

The text of the "DDI's State of Analysis Speech" was obtained by
Secrecy News and is now available here (11 pages, 2 MB PDF
file):

http://www.fas.org/irp/cia/product/021104miscik.pdf


BILL HARLOW, ZEN MASTER

We have much to learn from Bill Harlow, the Director of the CIA
Office of Public Affairs which reliably rebuffs our requests for
information.

When Secrecy News initially called CIA Public Affairs to request
a copy of DDI Miscik's speech above, we were told that Mr.
Harlow was "exercising his discretion not to give it to you"--
 even though it had been previously provided to the Washington
Post and the New York Times. (SN, 02/23/04).

At first glance, this response appeared to be the petty act of a
minor bureaucrat bent on stifling criticism of his troubled
agency.

But beneath the small-minded facade, Mr. Harlow was propounding
a deeper lesson.

Go out and cultivate your own sources, Bill was saying. Don't
become dependent on our "Office of Public Affairs." When
authorized channels are blocked, seek out the unauthorized
channels. Be creative. Get what you need by your own devices.

And so we did.

http://www.odci.gov/cia/information/harlow.html


IAEA REPORT ON IRAN

New evidence of previously undisclosed research in Iran on
enrichment and reprocessing of nuclear materials was described
in a February 24 report from the International Atomic Energy
Agency.

A copy of the IAEA report, marked "restricted distribution" and
"for official use only" perhaps in order to ensure a wide
readership, is posted here:

http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/iran/iaea-0204.pdf


IS THE RECIPE FOR RICIN ON THE INTERNET?

The widely reported assertion that one can find the "recipe" for
manufacturing the toxin ricin on the internet is investigated
and debunked by analyst (and chemist) George Smith in National
Security Notes, a new publication of GlobalSecurity.org. See:

http://www.globalsecurity.org/org/nsn/index.html


OTHER NEWS AND RESOURCES

Democratic members of the House Select Committee on Homeland
Security presented their critique of homeland security policy in
a new report presented on the first anniversary of the
Department of Homeland Security. See "America at Risk: Closing
the Security Gap" here:

http://www.house.gov/hsc/democrats/

In 1968, the U.S. military planned to attack the Soviet anti-
ballistic missile system (ABM) with more than 100 nuclear
weapons, according to an article in the March/April issue of the
Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists. See "The Protection Paradox"
by Hans M. Kristensen, Matthew G. McKinzie and Robert S. Norris:

 http://www.thebulletin.org/issues/2004/ma04/ma04kristensen.html

Selected documents on U.S. military space policy, including
descriptions of new intercontinental ballistic missile concepts,
are provided by the Western States Legal Foundation here:

http://www.wslfweb.org/space/spacedocs.htm

A Freedom of Information Act officer at FBI Headquarters was
sentenced to a year in prison yesterday because she unlawfully
accessed the FBI's Automated Case Support (ACS) computer system.
See this Justice Department news release:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/2004/02/doj022604.html



_______________________________________________
Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the
Federation of American Scientists.

To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to
secrecy_news-request.nul
with "subscribe" in the body of the message.

OR email your request to saftergood.nul

Secrecy News is archived at:
http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html

_______________________
Steven Aftergood
Project on Government Secrecy
Federation of American Scientists
web:  www.fas.org/sgp/index.html
email: saftergood.nul
voice: (202) 454-4691







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              Re: The Rosetta Disk By The Long Now Foundation -

From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 09:29:05 -0600
Fwd Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 16:35:19 -0500
Subject: Re: The Rosetta Disk By The Long Now Foundation -


>From: Terry W. Colvin <fortean1.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 14:17:30 -0700
>Subject: The Rosetta Disk By The Long Now Foundation

>(Another Rosetta news item)

>Besides carrying the instruments of my work groups,
>the Rosetta spacecraft is carrying a 'Rosetta Disk' mounted
>under the thermal  blankets of the orbiter, made by the Long Now
>Foundation:

>http://www.longnow.org/10klibrary/RosettaMission.htm

Maybe I've read too many berserker stories, but the longer I
live, the more I feel like we ought to be shutting up about
ourselves and laying a little low.  Of course the odds of an
intelligent civilization finding this probe or the Voyagers is
essentially zero, but...

Of all the reasons I've heard why we haven't detected signals
from other intelligences, the one that makes the most sense to
me is that they're purposely keeping quiet.  I think if you
watch any of the nature programs on TV, you can't help but feel
that what nature is, above all else, is one big smorgasbord with
everything eating everything else.  I just get a gut feeling (so
to speak) that if there is other life out there in the universe,
it's gonna be operating in the same way.  Predator and prey.
 Yeah, we might luck out and meet a species that has something
similar to our own sense of compassion, who might help us
survive until we can get our technological act together, but I
wouldn't bet on it.

The more I think about it, the more I view these aliens as a
real threat.

If there turns out to be nothing to worry about, great.  But
just on the off chance that the nastier critters out there are
scouting around for fresh meat, I really think we should conduct
much of our exploration (particularly extra-solar exploration)
with as much stealth as possible.







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                       Re: UFO Magazine UK - Stanford

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 11:24:39 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 16:43:49 -0500
Subject: Re: UFO Magazine UK - Stanford


>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 19:51:49 -0000
>Subject: Re: UFO Magazine UK

>>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 20:51:13 -0500
>>Subject: Re: UFO Magazine UK

>>>From: Stuart Miller <Stuart.Miller4.nul>
>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 10:25:34 -0000
>>>Subject: Re: UFO Magazine UK

>>>"Ding". That is the first chime of an alarm bell going off in my
>>>head. We do not number our magazine like that, unless you are
>>>referring to a very old copy.

>Yes, I can't find any volume numbers or serial numbers on the
>cover or anywhere else in UFO Magazine, except for the ISSN
>(which, curiously, is referred to as "ISNN").

>>You don't know your own magazine! I was quoting from the cover
>>that clearly states, "Volume 24, No. 1", which I had just
>>purchased for that purpose from the local bookstore-news stand.
>>I was quoting the printing of the volume and issue numbers as
>>stated to the upper right side of the cover of that January,
>>2004, issue.

>No, no, my copy certainly does not have "Volume 24, No. 1" on
>the cover, or anywhere else. It merely has "January 2004" to
>identify which issue it is.

>>I suggest you look at it yourself and apologize for your errant
>>haste. I would remind you that the cover features a trisket
>>(three-armed) crop circle, a photo of Tory leader Michael
>>Howard, mention that "Fleetwood Lights Return!", and, also,
>>"Abduction Research Funding Approved", etc. Sound familiar?

>That's right, except for the "Volume 24 No.1" bit. Have another
>look, Ray, and tell us if you can still see it.

On the edition in my hand, the "Volume 24, No. 1, Jan" is found
in white, the smallest type font on the cover, and is located
just above the tiny color image of the U.S. flag, to the right
of which reads USA $6.99, and just below that is the Canadian
flag in color, followed by CS7.99. Does your issue there show
those flags and the US and Canadian prices? If not, did it ever
dawn on you and Stuart Miller that I might be describing the
cover for a Newsstand Edition as sold here in the U.S.A. and in
Canada, which could necessarily list something the British
edition does not, perhaps for purpose of some requirement,
possibly, of the US distributors that the issue be stated as I
have quoted for purpose of keeping track of which issue they
already have up on the newsstands?

With the magazine editor's permission, I would be happy to scan
the cover and send you and Stuart a copy.

Further more John Harney, it is disgusting of you to say,
"...tell us if you can still see it", as though to imply that I
hallucinated it, looking down your pelican beak that is so long
that your intellectual focus it too poor to think before your
nose that there just might be a special cover adapted to US or
Canadian newsstand service.

I am reasonably confident that by now Stuart Miller knows that I
was right (He could easily discover that there is such a US &
Canada newsstand edition by asking the publisher.) but is too
ashamed of his hasty mistake to have told the list.

Do you really suppose that I made up such a trivial detail,
either consciously (or unconsciously, hallucinated it)? Stupid!
Motivation, John?! What would your pelican mind suppose would be
my motivation for adding such an alleged (by you) false and
trivial detail to my post?

Would you like a signed note from my local bookseller, Books-A-
Million, where I bought the newsstand copy, on their letterhead,
confirming what the cover says? :)

I invite US and Canadian List members to just have a look at the
current newsstand edition of UFO Magazine if you can find it at
a good bookstore or newsstand and confirm to this List (if
you've time and inclination) how wrong Pelican John is on this
matter.

The last laugh on this issue (pun intended) is mine, John. :)


Ray Stanford

"You know my method. It is founded upon the observance of
trifles." -- Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery







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                       Re: UFO Magazine UK - Stanford

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 12:01:20 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 08:35:37 -0500
Subject: Re: UFO Magazine UK - Stanford


>From: Stuart Miller <Stuart.Miller4.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 15:00:09 -0000
>Subject: Re: UFO Magazine UK

>>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 20:51:13 -0500
>>Subject: Re: UFO Magazine UK

>>>From: Stuart Miller <Stuart.Miller4.nul>
>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 10:25:34 -0000
>>>Subject: Re: UFO Magazine UK

>>>>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>>Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 20:00:40 -0500
>>>>Subject: Re: UFO Magazine UK

<snip>

>Copies of the magazine, as published in the UK, do not have the
>designations you describe. They just simply have the month and
>the year. If you then deduce that I don't know my own magazine
>from that observation, then you are right.

>I am now asking you, publicly, for the third time, to state the
>particular issue of the magazine in which you allege this
>copyright breach occurred. I'll spell it out clearly. Put up or
>shut up.

>Your last reply yesterday was a perfect example of
>grandstanding. You have shouted very loudly Ray and yet don't
>seem to want to come through with the evidence.

The evidence of your magazine's illegal action is in its own
files, if they really want to see it; but the volume number,
issue number, and page(s) number(s) of the UFO Magazine (UK)
issue that illegally published (no permission, no attribution)
my Socorro book's landing site illustrations will be named in a
certified letter to the magazine's publisher.

"Put up or shut up", you declare. Under the circumstance, I'd
use kid cloves and walk as if protecting eggshells if I were you
when acting as a spokesperson for the magazine. So tell me,
Stuart, was that attempt at inflamatory language said only on
your personal behalf of was it said on behalf of the magazine?
 :)

We will deal with the magazine. It is out of your hands,
personally, so I think it might be wise of you, to borrow your
words, to "Shut up". Someone might interpret it that you are
commenting publicly on behalf of the magazine.


Ray Stanford

"Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known." --
 Carl Sagan






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                        Re: UFO Magazine UK - Hebert

From: Amy Hebert <vanguard.nul>
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 13:49:53 -0600
Fwd Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 08:39:56 -0500
Subject: Re: UFO Magazine UK - Hebert


>From: John Harney <magonia.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 19:51:49 -0000
>Subject: Re: UFO Magazine UK

>>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 20:51:13 -0500
>>Subject: Re: UFO Magazine UK

>>>From: Stuart Miller <Stuart.Miller4.nul>
>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 10:25:34 -0000
>>>Subject: Re: UFO Magazine UK

<snip>

>No, no, my copy certainly does not have "Volume 24, No. 1" on
>the cover, or anywhere else. It merely has "January 2004" to
>identify which issue it is.

>>I suggest you look at it yourself and apologize for your errant
>>haste. I would remind you that the cover features a trisket
>>(three-armed) crop circle, a photo of Tory leader Michael
>>Howard, mention that "Fleetwood Lights Return!", and, also,
>>"Abduction Research Funding Approved", etc. Sound familiar?

>That's right, except for the "Volume 24 No.1" bit. Have another
>look, Ray, and tell us if you can still see it.

>John Harney

Good Afternoon, Gentlemen:

I do not wish to get in the middle of this discussion but I have
an October issue of UFO Magazine here in front of me that has
printed on the cover "VOLUME 23 No.10 oct" (caps are printed
that way on the cover).

It says it's printed in Great Britain and indicates it is "ISNN
0966-1107" on the back side of the front cover.

Perhaps this is done for issues printed in the United States but
not in Great Britain? Check with the publishers?

I will scan the cover of the issue I have and post it on a web
page for your review tonight.

Please excuse this intrusion. Just trying to help.


Sincerely,

A. Hebert







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                        Close Call Meteorite 2004 AS1

From: Jaime Maussan <jaimemaussanmx.nul>
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 14:16:59 -0600 (CST)
Fwd Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 08:46:35 -0500
Subject: Close Call Meteorite 2004 AS1


Dear Friends:

I just received the following from a Mexican Astronomer. It
seems to be a real event.

This event made me remember the Romanek Case, especially the
so-called Prophecy for 12-12-2003.

Do you have any comments on this?


Jaime Maussan


-----

From: Rodolfo Garrido <rodolfogarrido.nul>
To: Jaime Maussan <jaimemaussanmx.nul>
Subject: Checa esto es importante...
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 11:36:22 -0600


Jaime checa esto por favor es importante...

Another Close Call
25-Feb-2004

http://www.unknowncountry.com/news/?id=3579

It has just been revealed that on January 13, astronomers came
within a few minutes of telling the world that an asteroid was
about to impact the Earth. Asteroid expert Clark Chapman says it
was a "nine-hour crisis." It was an amateur astronomer who
finally figured out it wasn't going to hit us.

David Whitehouse writes at bbcnews.com that some astronomers
believed that asteroid 2004 AS1 had a one-in- four chance of
hitting the Earth on January 14 or 15. At less than a mile wide,
it was not big enough to cause a major extinction event, but it
would have caused widespread local damage wherever it landed.
Scientists knew it would hit the Northern Hemisphere, but had no
idea exactly where. They were about to alert President Bush when
they discovered the asteroid would pass us by. If it had been
about to impact, scientists would have begun bouncing radar
signals off it in order to predict where it would land. Since
according to statistical odds, it would be most likely to land
in the ocean, the biggest danger would have been if it had
exploded in the atmosphere, blocking out sunlight and causing a
"nuclear winter".

Chapman reveals that the asteroid was first spotted by twin
optical telescopes in New Mexico, which sent details to the
Minor Planet Center in Massachusetts. The MPC posted the details
on the internet and asked other astronomers to take a look at
the asteroid. It was expected to grow 40 times brighter the next
day, which is a sign an asteroid is getting closer very quickly.
But the object had only been observed four times and astronomers
hadn�t identified its orbit. The question was: should they warn
the world or keep quiet until they were sure? "They completely
misread the situation," says astronomer Benny Peiser. "There was
plenty of time to get other observers on the job."

NASA's Steven Chesley sent out an e-mail saying the asteroid had
a 25% chance of striking the Earth in a few days. This was when
Clark Chapman and David Morrison, of the International
Astronomical Union's Working Group on Near Earth Objects,
considered making an early morning call to the White House.
Brian Marsden, of the Minor Planet Center, says, "That would
have jumped the gun before we knew much about the object. I find
it incredible that such action was contemplated on the basis of
just four observations. That is just not enough to yield a
sensible orbit. There was no need to panic as it was obvious
that the situation would have been resolved, one way or another,
in another hour or two."

It was an amateur astronomer who saved the day. After receiving
the Chesley e-mail, he managed to take a picture of the sky
during a moment when the clouds had parted. If the asteroid had
been aiming for the Earth, it would have been in the picture,
but it wasn't, meaning it wasn't going to impact. If the sky had
stayed cloudy, however, there might have been no choice but to
raise the alarm. Marsden says, "If it had been cloudy and the
call had been made to the President it would have been
disastrous."

2004 AS1 eventually passed by at a distance of about 32 times
the distance from the Earth to the Moon, so it turned out to
pose no danger to life on Earth.

If the government keeps asteroid information secret from the
public, what aren't they telling us aboutUFOs?








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              Re: The Rosetta Disk By The Long Now Foundation -

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 17:45:23 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 08:51:16 -0500
Subject: Re: The Rosetta Disk By The Long Now Foundation -


>From: Terry W. Colvin <fortean1.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 14:17:30 -0700
>Subject: The Rosetta Disk By The Long Now Foundation

>(Another Rosetta news item)

>Besides carrying the instruments of my work groups, the Rosetta
>spacecraft is carrying a 'Rosetta Disk' mounted under the
>thermal blankets of the orbiter, made by the Long Now
>Foundation:

>http://www.longnow.org/10klibrary/RosettaMission.htm

>{begin quote}

>This broad collection of creation stories is intended both as an
>icon for the mission as well as a functional language recovery
>tool for potential finders in unknown futures.

>As an iconic object, the creation stories suggest a mythic frame
>for the Rosetta Mission as it journeys to the Comet
>67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenko to elaborate our understanding of the
>scientific story of planetary genesis.

>And as a linguistic tool, the 1,000 parallel Genesis
>translations creates a contemporary version of the historic
>Rosetta Stone, enabling finders to work from known languages to
>decipher those on the disk unknown at the time of finding.

If any aliens ever get hands, tenacles, or what have they on
that thing and succeed in translating the text(s), they could
decide we are a bunch of pseudoscientific, superstitious
primitives, to say nothing of the fact that they might conclude
from the Biblical creation story that we are both guilt-ridden
and are male chauvenist pigs. (Eve from a rib of Adam!)

One might have thought that the European Space Agency was too
wise to put something into space promoting a myth that members
of pre-scientific middle-eastern culture created (to explain
what they did not comprehend); but, sadly, that thought would be
wrong. Scientists should protest, along with people of various
religions who hold to differing creation myths.

A Bible tract in space! That takes the cake! Perhaps we only
dream that we are living in the 21st century!


Ray Stanford

"Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known."
-- Carl Sagan







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                  Re: Whittlesea-Beveridge Photo - Golubic

From: Victor Golubic <Peetkin.nul>
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 18:54:14 EST
Fwd Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 08:53:22 -0500
Subject: Re: Whittlesea-Beveridge Photo - Golubic


>From: Tom DeMary <t.demary.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 00:30:23 -0600
>Subject: Re: Whittlesea-Beveridge Photo

>>From: Victor Golubic <Peetkin.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 15:59:00 EST
>>Subject: Re: Whittlesea-Beveridge Photo - Golubic

><snip>

>>Given the statement that the camera operates optically from,
>>what I assume is 1.0X through 3.0X optically with a zoom
>>equivalent focal length on a 35 millimeter camera of 39-117 mm,
>>the actual focal length as stated, is instead, 6 to 18 mm for
>>the DC240.

>>Therefore, with the given information, one can assume that the
>>CCD measures approximately 6 millimeters diagonally (assumed,
>>but could be purely horizontal), with an aspect ratio (width to
>>height) of 2.6/3.4 (as measured from various pages both
>>featuring and stating these width to height values).

><snip>

>Victor,

>Your math is sound, and a 6 mm diagonal is a reasonable
>assumption, but you are in effect assuming the FOV, since it is
>determined by sensor size and focal length of the lens. The
>sensor size could be from 4 to 9mm, which makes a big difference
>in the angle of the Field of View, if the focal length was 10mm,
>as given in the EXIF data.


>>For wide angle settings, I've sent questions to various testing
>>resource outfits and await a response. Other than that, testing
>>the camera and interviewing the witness, as Brad has stated, is
>>the only logical course of action.

>The camera, as far as I can tell, has no wide angle setting - it
>has a zoom lens (39 - 117mm as stated above). 39mm is not very
>wide. The camera does have an optional accessory lens, which
>fits over its zoom, to give a wide angle 35mm equivalent of
>24mm, as Brad Sparks mentioned in material I snipped out.

>I thought that the 35mm equivalency was straight-forward, until
>I saw this is a link that explains three different ways that
>camera makers can specify it:

>http://www.panoramafactory.com/equiv35/equiv35.html

>These proliferating low-end digital cameras are all about ease
>and convenience, with very little useful documentation
>about their photographic specifics.


>Tom DeMary


Thanks for updating my assumptions...with some input
and the other info on the posssible 24 mm focal attachment
(Brad).  I was simply giving the standard setup.  Yes, the
manufacturers don't give you everything you want within
their specs and it becomes frustrating to say the least!

If everyone will go to this web page you'll see that my
calculation is very close, except that my assumption of
the diagonal aperture of 6 mm is instead 6.44
horizontal . . . which was the other explicitly stated
alternative.

http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/DC240/240PICS.HTM

Once your there, page down to the data on the macro
shot of the dollar bill, it gives all the distance and width
info from which you'll see that my assumption is quite
close for 3.0x (others too).  If it was 10 mm, then you just
need to plug it in...I was only giving three reasonable
points at 1, 2, and 3x.

There you will read this, "With its zoom lens run out
to the telephoto end of its range (3.0X), and the camera
set for "macro" focusing, the DC240 does a very
respectable job of close-up photography. The minimum
focusing distance of 9.6 (9.5) inches (0.25 m) results
in a reasonably "tight" minimum viewable area of
2.6x3.4 inches (65 x 87 mm)."

Calculating from this: 2 * Arctan ((3.4/2)/9.5) = 20.3
degrees, one arrives at a value very close to what I
provided for my 3.0X estimate of 18.9.  However,
this is the true horizontal dimension (confirmed here),
Therefore, my assumption of the diagonally "film"
aperture for the CCD being 6 mm is instead 6.44 mm
horizontal.

We now have a little wider FOV from what I had
estimated previously:

1X magnification - 2 * Arctan((6.44/2)/6) = 56.4 Degrees.
...therefore, horizontally the FOV is 56.4 Degrees
...vertically the FOV is 43.2 Degrees, and diagonally
...it is, 2* Arctan((7.33/2)/6) = 62.8 Degrees

2X magnification - 2 * Arctan((6.44/2)/12) = 30.0 Degrees
...therefore, horizontally the FOV is 30.0 Degrees
...and vertically the FOV is 22.9 Degrees, and diagonally
...it is, 2* Arctan((7.33/2)/12) = 34.0 Degrees

3X magnification - 2 * Arctan((6.44/2)/18) = 20.3 Degrees.
...therefore, horizontally the FOV is 20.3 Degrees
...and vertically the FOV is 15.5 Degrees, and diagonally
...it is, 2* Arctan((7.33/2)/18) = 23.0 Degrees

Therefore, at 10 mm, which I hadn't been aware of until someone
had e-mailed me off the line (this is still an estimate of the
zoom setting from what I gather), we get...

2 * Arctan((6.44/2)/10) = 35.7 Degrees....therefore,
horizontally the FOV is 35.7 Degrees...and vertically
the FOV is 27.3 Degrees, and diagonally...it is,
2* Arctan((7.33/2)/10) = 40.3
And, by direct input, the magnification is 1.67 X
for that setting.

And, yes, the CCD imging area could be smaller or larger to
accommodate different lenses at different focal lengths. This
would change everything above by a factor of 35/24 (6.44 becomes
9.4, just plug it in and recalculate). Perhaps there's a
panoramic setting too?  I think we have it fairly close now for
the 24 mm style attachment (if present).

At 9.4 and a 10 mm focal length (1.67X), we get:

2 * Arctan((9.4/2)/10) = 50.3 Degrees....therefore, horizontally
the FOV is 50.3 Degrees...and vertically the FOV is 38.5
Degrees, diagonally...it is, 2* Arctan((10.7/2)/10) = 56.3
Degrees.

The web page I provided should help with many other camera
manufacturers as well.


Victor Golubic







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              Re: The Rosetta Disk By The Long Now Foundation -

From: Terry W. Colvin <fortean1.nul>
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 19:47:42 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 08:56:21 -0500
Subject: Re: The Rosetta Disk By The Long Now Foundation -


>From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 09:29:05 -0600
>Subject: Re: The Rosetta Disk By The Long Now Foundation

>>From: Terry W. Colvin <fortean1.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 14:17:30 -0700
>>Subject: The Rosetta Disk By The Long Now Foundation

>>(Another Rosetta news item)

>>Besides carrying the instruments of my work groups,
>>the Rosetta spacecraft is carrying a 'Rosetta Disk' mounted
>>under the thermal  blankets of the orbiter, made by the Long Now
>>Foundation:

>>http://www.longnow.org/10klibrary/RosettaMission.htm

>Maybe I've read too many berserker stories, but the longer I
>live, the more I feel like we ought to be shutting up about
>ourselves and laying a little low.  Of course the odds of an
>intelligent civilization finding this probe or the Voyagers is
>essentially zero, but...

>Of all the reasons I've heard why we haven't detected signals
>from other intelligences, the one that makes the most sense to
>me is that they're purposely keeping quiet.  I think if you
>watch any of the nature programs on TV, you can't help but feel
>that what nature is, above all else, is one big smorgasbord with
>everything eating everything else.  I just get a gut feeling (so
>to speak) that if there is other life out there in the universe,
>it's gonna be operating in the same way.  Predator and prey.
>Yeah, we might luck out and meet a species that has something
>similar to our own sense of compassion, who might help us
>survive until we can get our technological act together, but I
>wouldn't bet on it.

>The more I think about it, the more I view these aliens as a
>real threat.

>If there turns out to be nothing to worry about, great.  But
>just on the off chance that the nastier critters out there are
>scouting around for fresh meat, I really think we should conduct
>much of our exploration (particularly extra-solar exploration)
>with as much stealth as possible.

Agreed, the 'Prime Directive' on Star Trek may well be the
exception than the rule. I am posting an academic paper by
Douglas Raybeck to EBK for his approval and posting.

Terry


--

"Only a zit on the wart on the heinie of progress." Copyright
1992, Frank Rice


Terry W. Colvin, Sierra Vista, Arizona (USA)
fortean1.nul








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                      Predator And Prey Models - Part I

From: Terry W. Colvin <fortean1.nul>
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 19:47:49 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 10:58:59 -0500
Subject: Predator And Prey Models - Part I


[[The signature block is one of my previous lives. -TWC]]


Terry W. Colvin <colvint.nul>  Voice: [520]538-5392
U.S. Message Text Formatting (USMTF) Program  FAX: [520]538-5435
Air Tasking Orders [Desert Storm I]    DSN: 879-5392
Fort Huachuca (Cochise County), Arizona USA
"No editor ever likes the way a story tastes unless he pees
in it first." -Mark Twain



Predator And Prey Models And Contact Considerations
by
Douglas Raybeck

Anthropology Department
Hamilton College
Clinton, NY 13323
<draybeck.nul>


Paper presented at the 11th Annual CONTACT Conference
Palo Alto, California
March 18th P 20th, 1994.

INTRODUCTION

Within the scientific community, as well as in the popular press
and among science fiction writers, there has long been a concern
with Extraterrestrials and the possibility of communication with
them. This concern has led to such projects as the Search for
Extraterrestrial Intelligence (SETI) (Morrison, et al. 1977)
that continues to be a focus of attention for many scientists
even though currently facing reduced funding (Harrison and Elms
1990, Raybeck 1992). As recently as this year, Harrison
published an intriguing paper concerning Extraterrestrial
intelligence in one of psychology's major journals (Harrison
1993). At the same time, scientists have theorized and
speculated about the nature of Extraterrestrial intelligence and
the problems involved in inter-sapient communication (Sagan
1973). The general consensus has been that the universe is very
likely to host other intelligent beings, that some of these will
be more technologically advanced than current humanity, and that
some will be trying to locate other intelligences.

In the science fiction community, images of Extraterrestrials
have been variegated in form, in intelligence and in intentions.
They range form the beneficent aliens of Julian May, who only
wish to elevate the lot of humanity and facilitate our
participation in an intergalactic "milieu," (1987a, 1987b) to
the malevolent Extraterrestrials of Greg Bear, who travel about
the universe locating intelligent life forms and destroying them
because they may be potential future competitors (1987).
Generally, however, images of aliens in the popular press and
among the scientific community are positive. It is widely
believed that if a sapient form can achieve the degree of
civilization necessary to support inter-stellar communication,
it is unlikely to be characterized by hostile intentions.

In this paper, I wish to examine this assumption. As an
anthropologist, I am aware that there are some markedly
different paths to the evolution of intelligence. These
differences can provide us with models that can suggest some of
the variety we may anticipate among Extraterrestrials. I am
concerned about the possibility that a technologically oriented
intelligence may as likely be developed by a predatory species
as by a non-predatory one. I am particularly concerned with the
kinds of stimuli that promote the development of intelligence,
and with what sorts of ethical notions might be associated with
these varying modes of evolving intelligence. This exercise in
modeling should have consequences for how we approach the
possibility of Extraterrestrial communication.

THE CASE FOR INTELLIGENCE

Among the range of definitions for intelligence, one that is
widely accepted is the ability to learn new response patterns
(Jerison 1973). Generally, intelligence confers upon an organism
greater adaptability and flexibility in dealing with
environmental challenges. However, many complex adaptations to
the environment do not require the classical concept of
intelligence. Scientists have long known that insects are
capable of complex adaptations to their

environments in a fashion that relies upon genetic programming
rather than on learning (Wilson 1980). Indeed, Schull has
recently argued that even the adaptive characteristics of plant
and animal species are related to information-processing and
that it would be fruitful to view such species as intelligent
(1990). Overwhelmingly, however, the scientific community is
persuaded that a greater capacity for learning is a superior
adaptation to suggested alternatives.

In the evolution of intelligence on earth there has been a
consistent trend from relatively closed instinctive patterns
toward "open" learning. (Hinde 1974, Sluckin 1965). Jastrow has
noted the evolution of intelligence from lower organisms to
humanity and to computers (1981). He and others believe that, if
one has competing species, the evolution of intelligence is
inevitable because the the advantages it confers upon the
possessor (Itzkoff 1983, Sagan 1977). However, the questions
concerning the rate at which intelligence is developed and the
nature of the species that are most likely to possess it are
more complex.

Evolutionary theorists and developmental biologists have long
been aware that the development of intelligence involves a
series of interactions between organisms and their environment
(Laughlin and Brady 1978, Laughlin and D'Aquili 1974,
Manosevetz, et al. 1969, Mazur and Robertson 1972, Tunnell
1973). The environment must contain conditions for which
intelligence is an adaptive trait. Beings with greater
intelligence then reproduce in increasing numbers, filling their
eco-niches and driving out less intelligent competitors. It is
important to note, however, that the entities disadvantaged in
this scenario are the ones that either compete directly with our
intelligent others or are directly exploited by them.

Complex environments select for intelligence by creating
conditions where more intelligent competitors have an advantage
in exploiting limited resources (Evans and Schmidt 1990,
Robinson 1990). Animals that proceed by instinct have a limited
set of behavioral repertoires with which to respond to changing
conditions. They are limited not only by their physiology, but
by their ability to perceive the existence of new demands and
new resource possibilities. Their coping equipment is
genetically based and suited to the parameters of the
environment in which the organism evolved. Should that
environment change, the organism may likely prove unable to
adapt to the new circumstances and be seriously disadvantaged in
its competition with other species. (Daly and Wilson 1978,
Dawkins 1976, Smith 1984).

Generally, increasing intelligence confers upon an organism a
better opportunity to model the environment, both natural and
behavioral, so that food getting, mating and general survival
strategies can be maximized. Intelligence is selected for
because it benefits the possessor, not because it is helpful to
others.

Costs and Advantages of Intelligence An increase in intelligence
has meant a corresponding rise in brain size. As Jerison has
noted, "The mass of neural tissue controlling a particular
function is appropriate to the amount of information processing
involved in performing the function" (1973: 8). This has been
true in organic evolution, and in the evolution of artificial
intelligence as well (Gardner 1985, Goldstein and Papert 1977,
Jastrow 1981, Llinas 1990, Nelson and Bower 1990, Schank and
Childers 1984). It seems likely that, however information is
processed, it would also be true for Extraterrestrials.

Intelligence is not without certain physical costs. Particularly
in

the case of high mammals, intelligence has been found to be
expensive in terms of the body's resources. Brain tissue
requires large supplies of glucose and oxygen (Milton 1988), but
these are justified by the advantages that intelligence confers.
Indeed, the costs of intelligence are evidence of its importance
and success as an environmental adaptation.

There are also social consequences that accompany the
development of significant intelligence. An increasing reliance
on a learned repertoire implies an increased period of
dependency on the part of the young. The need for learning plus
the problems of rearing learning-based offspring involve a very
serious cost from an evolutionary perspective. Such organisms
have few offspring and this means that, unlike lower organisms
that reproduce in greater numbers, the survival of each of these
offspring is important. This longer maturation period and the
need for security creates a trend toward social living, as the
infant and its mother are in need of the support of others
(Laughlin and D'Aquili 1974). This model is not only true for
humans but also apes, cetaceans, elephants, and most other
mammals with appreciable intelligence. Further, as we shall see,
the exigencies of social life can prove to be as strong a
stimulus for the evolution of increased intelligence, as any
other factor. This creates a positive feedback loop in which
intelligence promotes social living which, once established,
makes increased intelligence highly adaptive.

Even among lower animals, greater intelligence means more
flexibility in dealing with environmental conditions. For
predators this implies a greater ability to locate and consume
prey, while, for prey, greater intelligence increases the
likelihood of avoiding such a fate (Byrne and Whiten 1988).

As intelligence increases, other emergent properties appear
which reflect the expanded complexity of the system, and which
confer still greater advantages upon the possessor. At some
point, increasing intelligence should lead to self-awareness
(Itzkoff 1985, Jastrow 1981, Laughlin and D'Aquili 1974). An
organism equipped with self- awareness can model not only the
externals of the environment, but can now include itself as an
element of attention. It has a self- concept separable from the
environment and capable of conscious examination and reflection
(Tunnell 1973). Concurrent with such a development is an
increase in the organism's ability to construct an internal
environment that can not only represent the external world, but
also make possible the construction of symbols which are, by
definition, arbitrarily related to their referents (Gazzaniga
1992, Laughlin and D'Aquili 1974, Laughlin, et al. 1990).

The capacity for symbolism represents an enormous evolutionary
advantage for any intelligent species. Prior to its appearance,
communications are limited by environmental stimuli in what is
termed a "closed" system (Hockett 1973). In such circumstances,
an organism emits a signal that is automatically called forth by
an external stimulus. There is no displacement in time or space,
and such calls are generally mutually exclusive. The information
carrying capacity of the system is thus limited to the number of
calls hard-wired into the organism. With symbolism, organisms
gain the ability to displace their messages and to combine them
in ever more complex and novel assemblages. Further, they can
assign meanings in complex ways influenced, but not dictated, by
biology. This opens up the realm of culture, a learned set of
patterns for behavior that are far more malleable than the
biological substrate that made them possible.


While symbolism involves greatly increased freedom from the
constraints of the organism's biological limitations, this
freedom is not absolute. For humans, the structure of our brain
imposes limits both on the amount of information we can process
at any given time (Miller 1956, Miller 1951), and on the kinds
of information we can process (Ardila and Ostrosky-Solis 1989,
Jerison 1990, Lenneberg 1967, Thompson and Green 1982). There is
reason to believe that similar limitations and perceptual
dispositions would attend any evolving sentience (Gazzaniga
1992, Sauer and MacNair 1983, Stokoe 1989, Wasserman 1989).
Given such an expectation, it seems likely that sentients who
have evolved from a predator background would differ markedly
from sentients whose gustatory preference run to plants.


--
"Only a zit on the wart on the heinie of progress." Copyright 1992, Frank Rice


Terry W. Colvin, Sierra Vista, Arizona (USA)
fortean1.nul








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                     Predator and Prey Models - Part II

From: Terry W. Colvin <fortean1.nul>
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 19:47:59 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 11:01:31 -0500
Subject: Predator and Prey Models - Part II



PREDATOR INTELLIGENCE MODELS

There are a variety of relations that obtain between predator
and prey. Some predators, such as the anteater, specialize in a
single prey; others, like the wolf, ingest a wide range of prey,
but most probably fall in the mid-range (Evans and Schmidt
1990). All predators need strategies to locate, obtain and
consume prey, but the nature of these strategies can range from
the genetically programmed activities of spiders , to the
complex hunting practices of the !Kung bushmen of the Kalahari
Desert (Lee 1979, Lee 1984, Marshall 1976). In the latter case,
intelligence not only makes it more likely that prey will be
obtained, it also promotes an optimal distribution of calories
and even saving against future need.

In assessing whether or not predators are as likely as others to
develop high intelligence, the answer is unequivocal PPP they
are not less, but more likely than others to evolve a high
intelligence. This somewhat surprising conclusion results from
an examination of ethological research, as well as contemplation
of the models purporting to describe factors that promote
intelligence.

Recall that intelligence is selected for when it enables an
organism to exploit resources that would otherwise elude it.
This argument holds for both predators and prey, but, for
reasons I will discuss below, its selective pressure is greater
for predators. Recall also, that complex environments select for
intelligence by creating conditions where more intelligent
competitors have an advantage in exploiting limited resources
(Evans and Schmidt 1990, Robinson 1990). The simple fact of the
matter is that predators have a more difficult set of problems
to solve and these involve environmental conditions that are
more complex for the predator than they are for the prey. Said
another way, predators are more environmentally challenged than
prey and this increases the selective advantage of increased
intelligence.

Prey need to locate resources which, in the case of herbivores
are nicely stationary. Further, they need to survive the
depredations of predators, but it is not necessary that all
individuals need to endure, to insure the perpetuation of the
prey species. Indeed, many prey adapt to the competition with
predators by becoming more fecund rather than more elusive.

In contrast, predators must actively solve their problems
including locating prey. As Malthus would suggest, there are
always more prey than predators, but such prey may prove
difficult to find. To survive, predators must prove more capable
than their prey. The complexity of a predator's environment not
only includes those elements also encountered by prey, but also
the behavior of the prey itself. It might be argued that the
prey could benefit from being able to better model the behavior
of predators but, given their

higher birth rate and the costs of intelligence, the selective
advantage of intelligence is actually less for prey than for
predators.

As may be imagined, the presumed world view of an intelligent
predator would view other entities in an extremely utilitarian,
probably gustatory, fashion. There would likely be constraints
on exploitative behaviors, since no intelligent predator would
wish to extirpate a source of calories, but there is no reason
to anticipate much in the way of inter-sapient altruism. Indeed
should Extraterrestrial visitors prove to be evolved from a
consistent predator base, it seems likely that their interest in
us would, at least from our perspective, be quite malevolent.

Of course, it may be argued that the assumption of uniform
hostility on the part of Extraterrestrials descended from
predator stock is too simplistic since it does not incorporate
the meliorating influence of adaptation to social life over a
prolonged period of evolution. My image of predators also
obfuscates the possible role of culture in reducing an us-them
view of the universe. In fairness, then, we should examine a
wider range of possibilities in which intelligence can be
promoted by a variety of circumstances in addition to predation.


EVOLUTIONARY SOURCES OF INTELLIGENCE

Tool Use: Since the middle of this century, one of the classic
arguments in anthropology concerning a probable stimulus for
intelligence focused on early tool use (Oakley 1959). Tool use
and, especially, tool manufacture place a premium on eye-hand
coordination, the ability to visualize a future result, and
other capacities associated with intelligence (Washburn 1960,
Wynn 1988). To the extent that tool use and tool making
represent an adaptive advantage in a competitive environment,
the qualities on which they depend will be selected for. It is
argued that our australopithecine forbears, who first used
tools, and Homo habilis, who first constructed tools, set in
motion a positive feedback loop, an ineluctable chain of events
that culminated in Homo sapiens sapiens. The selection for
better eye- hand coordination and greater intelligence resulted
in organisms that could construct more effective tools. These
tools conferred an even greater adaptive advantage which, in
turn, increased the selective pressure for better eye-hand
coordination, greater intelligence, and so forth.

Although it is now regarded as unlikely that this model best
accounts for the evolution of human intellectual capacities
(Wynn 1988), it does seems probable that constructing tools
helped to further human intelligence. It also seems quite
possible that the development of a tool tradition would have a
similar influence on Extraterrestrial life forms.

Interestingly, while the role of tool reliance is relevant to
the development of intelligence, it seems to tell us nothing
about the ethical implications of that intelligence. Tools can
be used for a variety of purposes, both malignant and benign.
The purpose towards which tools are bent will depend upon
considerations that are essentially independent of tool
manufacture itself. Tool use means greater efficiency, but it
does not suggest toward what end.

Spatial Behavior: Most evolutionary scenarios for our hominid
past include a prolonged period of foraging. Except for
carnivores, it seems likely that a lengthy interval of gathering
would characterize many organisms as they evolved toward higher
intelligence. Several anthropologists have argued that the
demands of foraging behavior make increased intelligence highly
adaptive. Foraging puts a premium on memory and

on the ability to locate and exploit ephemeral resources.
Further, foraging through a defined domain, emphasizes the
ability to estimate the location and reoccurrence of seasonal
resources. One authority on primate foraging behaviors has
argued that those primates with larger brains also have larger
ranges and more varied diets, suggesting a causal relationship
(Milton 1988).

Whatever the role of foraging in selecting for intelligence, it
seems likely that it would be only one factor among many. Some
authorities have suggested that the evolution of the nervous
system was partly due to the memory requirements described above
and partly due to a more general need for problem solving
skills. It is thought that there were selective pressures
calling for the mind to make ever finer discriminations (Iran-
 Nejad, et al. 1992).

The ability to develop accurate cognitive maps of an organism's
territory would confer a variety of advantages ranging from more
reliable resource exploitation to fewer encounters with
dangerous competitors. However, again, this adaptation would
seem to provide little indication of the ethical implications of
an intelligence derived from such stimuli. To encounter matters
of ethical moment, we must, almost by definition, look to the
social realm where organisms interact with one another.

Social Behavior: The best argument for the importance of the
social environment in creating pressure for increased
intelligence was advanced by Alison Jolly (1985), a noted
primatologist, currently at Princeton. Jolly's study of Lemurs
revealed that there were significant, complex, social problems
to be solved in order for an organism to mate, cooperate with
others, and maintain a viable group status. She argued that the
need to adapt to complex social circumstances selected for
intelligence in both males and females (Jolly 1985). Further,
the slow maturation of young created a situation in which
learned social skills had an early impact on dominance relations
and, later, on mating opportunities. Nor was this reproductive
concern solely one for males, as it has been shown that dominant
females tend to have more opportunities for mating and a greater
likelihood of raising dominant males.

Several studies have recently supported Jolly's original
contribution and elaborated some of the mechanisms involved
(Lewin 1988). Cheney, working with vervets found that their
adaptive social behaviors and social learning were significantly
more complex than behaviors related to other tasks such as
foraging (Cheney and Seyfarth 1988). There is currently general
agreement that demands of social participation are perhaps the
most powerful stimuli for the development of higher
intelligence. Authorities assert that socially skilled organisms
have significant advantages over others, including a better
ability to foresee the behavior of their competitors (Smith
1984: 69), and greater skill in constructing and maintaining
profitable alliances (Harcourt 1988).

Portions of this scenario seem foreordained by the nature of
intelligence itself. As noted earlier, greater intelligence
means a prolonged period of infant dependency, a greater need
for a learned behavioral repertoire, and a general trend for
social living to support the first two. The complexities of
social life, the differential access to resources, and mating
opportunities that accompany high levels of social skill all
place considerable selective pressure on increased intelligence
and, to some extent sociability. Ethological studies indicate
that any organism whose behavior puts the group at risk suffers
exclusion, injury and/or a loss of mating opportunities.


This model would seem to have some utility for conjecturing
about the nature of Extraterrestrial intelligence and attitudes.
It seems likely that any intelligence that evolves in a social
unit will be affected by the minimal functional requirements
involved in group cooperation and cohesion. The result will
likely be an organism that has serious constraints on agonistic
behavior and an ability to engage in cooperative endeavors. This
scenario is markedly more hopeful than the one suggested above
for intelligent predators, but it would still be wise to
consider the probable nature of social behavior, for there are
often marked differences between in-group behavior and that
directed toward outsiders.


--
"Only a zit on the wart on the heinie of progress." Copyright
1992, Frank Rice


Terry W. Colvin, Sierra Vista, Arizona (USA
fortean1.nul








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                     Predator and Prey Models - Part III

From: Terry W. Colvin <fortean1.nul>
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 19:48:07 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 11:03:24 -0500
Subject: Predator and Prey Models - Part III


MACHIAVELLIAN SOCIAL BEHAVIOR

If this material can be used to project Extraterrestrial
intentions, an examination of group behavior among monkeys, apes
and humans reveals some rather disquieting social trends.
Indeed, according to recent authorities, the adumbrated altruism
and cooperation that was to characterize social life appears to
have roots in a rather ominous social calculus. Smith has argued
that the exigencies of social life provide a powerful stimulus
for increased intelligence, the capacity for symbolism and the
ability to abstract patterns: "...an animal would have to think
of others as having motivations similar to its own, so that it
could foresee their future behavior, and it would have to
communicate symbolically" (Smith 1984: 69).

However, the question remains as to what end these abilities are
directed, and a recent collection of essays suggests that
Machiavellianism is evolutionarily adaptive:

...in most cases where uses of social expertise are apparent,
they are precisely what Machiavelli would have advised!
Cooperation is a notable feature of primate society, but its
usual function is to out-compete rivals for personal gain.
[However,] ...it seems likely that the later course of human
evolution has been characterized by a much greater emphasis on
altruistic uses of intelligence. (Byrne and Whiten 1988:vi)

Unfortunately, the authors also note that the weight of
evolutionary evidence supports an argument that our intelligence
evolved principally from "a need for social manipulation."
(Ibid.) Basically, it seems it is in the individual's interest
to take advantage of others, as long as doing so does not
jeopardize social standing, mating possibilities, and access to
resources.

If the nature of in-group dynamics seems a somewhat unpromising
suggestion of what Extraterrestrial contact might hold, the
character of out-group relations is even less encouraging. The
Nobel laureate, Konrad Lorenz (1963) has argued that inter-group
relations among many species are characterized by aggression and
that this agonistic behavior has a positive function. He
suggests that intra-group aggression serves as a spacing
mechanism to promote a dispersal of populations throughout the
environment, thereby facilitating a more efficient utilization
of resources (Ibid.). He notes that such behavior is
particularly true for members of the same species and for those
others that exploit the same resources.

In instances of confrontations between carnivores, Lorenz
believes that there are instinctive inhibitions on the use of
deadly force. He suggests that these have evolved because
carnivores are too well equipped for damaging each other. Thus,
the result of an aggressive encounter would probably mean the
death or maiming of both parties. Instead, intra-carnivore
contests, rather than extending to deadly action, are limited to
displays of ferocity. However, herbivores and

omnivores are less well equipped to seriously injure one another
and, as a consequence, are presumed to lack instinctive checks
on the display of intra-species aggression. Indeed, since both
parties can survive the encounter, it is thought that intra-
species aggression among non-carnivores may help to select for
increased intelligence, as more intelligent organisms avoid
contests they are apt to lose but initiate ones where they are
likely to win (Cheney and Seyfarth 1988, Harcourt 1988). This
would increase mating opportunities and inclusive fitness.

According to Borgia (1980) who has examined human aggression as
a biological adaptation, individuals will participate in
aggression when it improves their inclusive fitness relative to
other behaviors in which they could engage. Thus, an accurate
assessment of complex social circumstances where aggression may
be directed toward others or toward oneself is a highly adaptive
skill, and one that also places an emphasis on and selects for
intelligence.

Intra-species behavior ranges from Machiavellian to agonistic
according to whether the principles are members of the same or
of different groups, and in consideration of other relevant
social variables. However, inter-species behavior displays a far
narrow set of behaviors. Simply put, with the exception of some
symbiotes, the record of inter-species behavior is clearly one
of competition and aggression (Byrne and Whiten 1988, Hinde
1974, Lorenz 1963). It seems that the only consideration that
tempers inter-species aggression is self-interest. Thus, some
predators limit their kills and increase their territories in
order to preserve the availability of prey (Lorenz 1963).

Thus, whether a specie derives its intelligence from tool use,
territorial exploration, an adaptation to complex social life,
or some combination of the three, there seems to be no reason to
anticipate the evolution of an intelligence characterized by
beneficence. On the contrary, it would seem that one of the
functions of intelligence is to promote a more efficient
exploitation of the environment, an environment that contains
other organisms, including members of one's own group.


CONCLUSION

 I confess to having begun the research for this paper in a mood
of optimism, anticipating that Extraterrestrial intelligences
would be at least as likely to display benevolence as
malevolence since they would have mastered a complex technology,
survived their own evolutionary challenges, and learned
sufficient cooperation to make high civilization possible. The
result of my research has led to a reevaluation of my original
expectations and, to the extent that these models are applicable
to future encounters with Extraterrestrials, a much more somber
conclusion.

Obviously models such as these, which are grounded in the
particular nature of earth organisms, especially mammals, cannot
presume to anticipate all possibilities. It is possible, though
not probable, that an Extraterrestrial intelligence would be
telepathic, hive oriented or significantly different in a
variety of ways (Hanlon and Brown 1989, Wasserman 1989). In such
circumstances, models such as those proposed here may be assumed
to have limited utility. However, several authorities believe
there are good reasons to anticipate a sentience significantly
different from our own but sharing sufficient characteristics to
enable communication (Raybeck 1992, Sagan 1973, Sagan 1977).

I have not argued that a species must be a carnivore to be a
predator. Indeed, some omnivores, such as ourselves, are truly
formidable predators. Neither have I argued that a species must
be

exclusively a predator to be influenced by selective pressures
appropriate for a predatory evolutionary scenario. However, if
predation is a major means of environmental adaptation, then the
presumed result is a simplistic world view representing a
consistent usPthem dichotomy in which us are fine ... but them
are dinner.

The assessments of non-predator forms of intelligence, while
more complex and somewhat more encouraging than the models
suggested by a presumed intelligent predator, still imply a
rather unpromising set of circumstances. As noted earlier,
intra-group behavior among non-predators seems best
characterized by Machiavellianism rather than by disinterested
altruism. As for inter-group relations the likelihood of
violence seems greatly increased. Still worse is the
prognostication for inter-species violence which would seem to
approximate that suggested by the models for predator behavior.

If these scenarios seem too pessimistic, we should recall our
own recent history and current state of affairs. As an omnivore
with a rather predatory past, our treatment of our own species
has not generally been characterized by an enlightened altruism.
Slavery, colonialism and inter-ethnic violence have marked our
history and continue to mar our present. This is not a necessary
state of affairs, as there are societies, such as the Semai,
where war and even interpersonal violence are effectively
unknown (Dentan 1968, Knauft 1987). However, when humans compete
for limited resources inter-group violence is a common, and
often predictable, response (Ferguson and Farragher 1988,
Harrison 1973, Montagu 1968). Indeed, competition within groups
can, in several social settings, also readily yield agonistic
behavior (Chagnon 1983, Meggitt 1977). Thus, it would seem naive
to anticipate better behavior from Extraterrestrials than we
manifest ourselves.

While the speed-of-light limitations on space travel make it
unlikely that any Extraterrestrial could readily visit us, such
things are within the realm of possibility. The best analogy
might be with early European exploitation of Southeast Asia. The
distance was impressive, communications haphazard, and the risks
great. Nonetheless, a small European power, Portugal, managed to
enslave populations, devastate property and destroy small
states. It also lead to Portuguese control of the spice trade,
and to Portuguese ascendancy back in Europe (Hall 1955, Harrison
1968, Swearer 1984).

Despite the rather negative conclusions of this study, I would
not counsel the abandonment of SETI or any reduction of the
current efforts to listen in on intelligent Extraterrestrial
life forms. On the contrary, I think we would be well advised to
be as informed as we can concerning the possibility of other
sentients. Indeed, in light of the behavioral significance of
differing gustatory patterns, I would particularly like to know
what they had for dinner. I would feel much more comfortable
entering into discussions with a salad- eater than with an
entity that derives its nourishment from higher on the food
chain. Nonetheless, as I have suggested, it is just these latter
entities that we are most apt to encounter. What then?

The potential benefits to be gained from interstellar
communication are too great to be ignored or avoided. Certainly
the listening should continue but, as I have suggested, the
potential danger of attracting the attention of an
Extraterrestrial sentient is also too great to be ignored. I
would recommend carefully assessing the location of any future
Extraterrestrial communicants, and gathering whatever
information about them might be possible, prior to

contemplating an active exchange of messages. Finally, if we do
find reason to send forth a message, I recommend we break with
the model established by Pioneers 10 and 11, which included a
detailed representation of our solar system and some hints on
how to get here. At the minimum, we should try to avoid
including a return address.


BIBLIOGRAPHY

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Bear, Greg
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Borgia, Gerald
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Byrne, Richard W., and Andrew Whiten, eds.
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Chagnon, Napoleon
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Cheney, Dorothy L., and Robert M. Seyfarth
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Daly, Martin, and Margo Wilson
1978 Sex, Evolution, And Behavior. North Scituate, Mass: Duxbury
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Dawkins, Richard
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Dentan, Robert Knox
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Evans, David L., and Justin O. Schmidt, eds.
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Gardner, Howard
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Gazzaniga, Michael S.
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1977 Artificial Intelligence, Language, and the Study of Knowledge.
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Hall, D. G. E.
1955 A History of South-East Asia. London: Macmillan & Company.

Hanlon, Robert E., and Jason W. Brown
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Harcourt, Alexander H.
1988 Alliances in Contests and Social Intelligence. In
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Harrison, Brian
1968 South-East Asia: A Short History. London: Macmillan.

Harrison, Robert
1973 Warfare. Minneapolis: Burgess Publishing Company.

Hinde, Robert A.
1974 Biological Bases of Human Social Behaviour. New York:
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Hockett, C. F.
1973 Man's Place in Nature. New York: McGraw-Hill Publishers.

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Itzkoff, Seymour W.

1983 The Form of Man: The Evolutionary Origins of Human
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Itzkoff, Seymour W.
1985 Triumph of the Intelligent: the Creation of Homo sapiens
sapiens. Ashfield, MA: Paideia.

Jastrow, Robert
1981 The Enchanted Loom: Mind in the Universe. New York: Simon
and Schuster.

Jerison, Harry, J.
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Jerison, Harry J.
1973 Evolution of the Brain and Intelligence. New York: Academic
Press.

Jolly, Alison
1985 The Evolution of Primate Behavior. New York: Macmillan
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Knauft, Bruce M.
1987 Reconsidering Violence in Simple Human Societies: Homicide
among the Gebusi of New Guinea. Current Anthropology 28: 457-499.

Laughlin, Charles D., Jr., and Ivan A. Brady, eds.
1978 Extinction and Survival in Human Populations. New York:
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Laughlin, Charles D., Jr., and Eugene G. D'Aquili
1974 Biogenetic Structuralism. New York: Columbia University
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Laughlin, Jr., Charles D., John McManus, and Eugene G. d'Aquili
1990 Brain, Symbol & Experience. Boston: New Science Library.

Lee, Richard
1979 The !Kung San: Men, Women, and Work in a Foraging Society.
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Lee, Richard B.
1984 The Dobe !Kung. New York: Holt Rinehart and Winston.

Lenneberg, Eric H.
1967 Biological Foundations of Language. New York: Wiley.

Lewin, Roger
1988 In the Age of Mankind. Washington, DC: Smithsonian Books.

Llinas, Rodolfo R., ed.
1990 The Workings of the Brain: Development, Memory, and
Perception. New York: W.H. Freeman and Company.

Lorenz, Konrad
1963 On Aggression. Wilson, Marjorie Kerr, transl. New York:
Harcourt, Brace & World, Inc.

Manosevetz, Martin, Gardner Lindzey, and Delbert D. Thiessen, eds.
1969 Behavioral Genetics: Method and Research. New York:
Appleton-Century-Crofts.

Marshall, Lorna
1976 The !Kung of Nyae Nyae. Cambridge, MA: Harvard University
Press.

May, Julian
1987a The Metaconcert. New York: Ballantine Books.

May, Julian
1987b Surveillance. New York: Ballantine Books.

Mazur, Allan, and Leon S. Robertson
1972 Biology and Social Behavior. New York: The Free Press.

Meggitt, Mervyn
1977 Blood is Their Argument: Warfare Among the Mae Enga Tribesmen
of the New Guinea Highlands. Palo Alto: Mayfield Publishing
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Miller, George
1956 The Magical Number Seven, Plus or Minus Two: Some Limits on
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Miller, George A.
1951 Language and Communication. New York: McGraw-Hill Book
Company, Inc.

Milton, Katherine
1988 Foraging behavior and the Origin of Primate Intelligence. In
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Montagu, M.F. Ashley, ed.
1968 Man And Aggression. London: Oxford University Press.

Morrison, Philip, John Billingham, and John Wolfe, eds.
1977 The Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence: SETI.
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1990 Brain Maps and Parallel Computers. Trends in Neurosciences
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1959 Man the Tool-Maker. Chicago: University of Chicago Press.

Raybeck, Douglas

1992 Problems in Extraterrestrial Communication. In Proceedings.
IX CONTACT Conference. Palo Alto, CA: Contact.

Robinson, Michael H.
1990 Predator-Prey Interactions, Informational Complexity, and the
Origins of Intelligence. In Insect Defenses: Adaptive Mechanisms
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Schmidt, eds. Pp. 129-149. Albany, NY: State University of New
York Press.

Sagan, Carl, ed.
1973 Communication with Extraterrestrial Intelligence (CETI).
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Sagan, Carl
1977 The Dragons of Eden: Speculations on the Evolution of Human
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Sauer, Charles H., and Edward A. MacNair
1983 Simulation of Computer Communication Systems. Englewood
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Schank, Roger C., and Peter G. Childers
1984 The Cognitive Computer: On Language, Learning and Artificial
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Schull, Jonathan
1990 Are Species Intelligent? Behavioral and Brain Sciences 13:
63-109.

Sluckin, W.
1965 Imprinting and Early Learning. Chicago: Aldine Publishing
Company.

Smith, John Maynard
1984 The Evolution of Animal Intelligence. In Minds, Machines and
Evolution, Christopher Hookway, ed. Pp. 63-71. New York:
Cambridge University Press.

Stokoe, William C.
1989 Language: From Hard-Wiring Or Culture? Sign Language Studies
63: 163-180.

Swearer, Donald K.
1984 Southeast Asia. Guilford: The Dushkin Publishing Group, Inc.

Thompson, Richard A., and John R. Green, eds.
1982 New Perspectives in Cerebral Localization. New York: Raven
Press.

Tunnell, Gary G.
1973 Culture and Biology: Becoming Human. Minneapolis: Burgess
Publishing Company.

Washburn, S. L.
1960 Tools and Human Evolution. Scientific American 203: 62-75.

Wasserman, Philip D.
1989 Neural Computing: Theory and Practice. New York: Van
Nostrand Reinhold.

Wilson, Edward O.
1980 Sociobiology. Cambridge: The Belknap Press.

Wynn, Thomas
1988 Tools and the Evolution of Human Intelligence. In
Machiavellian Intelligence, Richard W. Byrne, and Andrew Whiten,


--
"Only a zit on the wart on the heinie of progress." Copyright
1992, Frank Rice


Terry W. Colvin, Sierra Vista, Arizona (USA
fortean1.nul








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               Re: Tracing The Flow Of The Gulf Breeze Money -

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 00:32:29 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 11:06:30 -0500
Subject: Re: Tracing The Flow Of The Gulf Breeze Money -


>From: Jerry Black <gulfbreezeinfo.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 17:26:18 -0800 (PST)
>Subject: Tracing The Flow Of The Gulf Breeze Money

>>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 16:29:50 -0500
>>Subject: Re: Tracing The Flow Of The Gulf Breeze Money

>>>From: Jerry Black <gulfbreezeinfo.nul>
>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 19:13:29 -0800 (PST)
>>>Subject: Tracing The Flow Of The Gulf Breeze Money


>To Bruce Maccabee & all Interested Parties:

>Mr. Bruce Maccabee, you claim you never knew about a large sum
>of money donated to the MUFON organization by Ed Walters for the
>sole purpose of helping finance the Gulf Breeze sightings
>i>nvestigation. As tight as you were with Ed Walters from the
>very beginning, do you expect me to believe that Vivkie Lyons,
>Charles Flannigan, and Rex Salisberry (who learned about the
>money directly from Walters� lips), all knew and you didn�t
>know?

>Rex Salisberry told me some weeks ago as I was researching his
>memories about the subject: "Bruce knew about the money."

>Your continued arrogance in denying that you knew about the
>payments, when all the evidence shows you had to know, forces me
>to make the following statement: In my opinion, you, sir, are not
>telling the truth.

>I intend to prove that statement over the next several months,
>as I show step-by-step how you and Mr. Walt Andrus proceeded on
>your biased and one-sided investigation.

I may have been told that Ed donated money for the
investigation. I can't be sure. It was now well over 10 years
ago.

If I was, I don't recall how much. Nor do I know when it was
donated. But, so what. I received no money to help with the
investigation other than the plane ticket from the Fund for UFO
Research and a free room from Charles Flannigan.

As I told you before you'd have to discuss this donation with
MUFON. I do know that Ed spent a considerable amount of money on
making Polaroid pictures for test purposes (at about $1 per
picture, as I recall the cost). He made many pictures which were
used to provide daytime images taken at the locations of
nighttime UFO photos and many other photos taken to test the
cameras. When he made the stereo camera he took "double"
pictures (stereo pair for each UFO photo).

As for your claim of my "biased and one-sided investigation" I
deny any such accusation and will be happy to outline, yet once
again, why I reached my conclusions as presented at the MUFON
Symposium in 1988 and in Ed's first book.










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                 Re: Brisbane, Australia Sighting - Stanford

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 00:58:52 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 11:08:17 -0500
Subject: Re: Brisbane, Australia Sighting - Stanford


>From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO <hbccufo.nul>
>To: UFO Updates" <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 13:05:49 -0800
>Subject: Brisbane, Australia Sighting

>Brisbane, Australia

>Date: Early 1982
>Time: 7:30 to 8:00 p.m.

>A lady telephoned me and wanted to report a sighting she and
>another had in Brisbane, Australia back in 1982. She was living
>in a two story apartment building which was located on top of a
>hill and had been living there for eighteen months. Also the
>building they lived in was right over top of the flight path for
>their major airport. The jet airliners would come in very low
>and the lady said it almost felt as if the wheels of these
>aircraft were skimming across the roof. So she was used to
>hearing and seeing the large aircraft fly over her home.

>One evening the couple felt a vibration which was different from
>the normal aircraft. Actually the vibration traveled straight
>through their bodies.

<snip>

>Something interesting the lady also mentioned was that the
>international airport had flights arriving and departing
>approximately every fifteen minutes. She said for the whole time
>the object sat over Brisbane there was not a flight to be seen
>coming or going or flying above.

Whether somehow of perceptual origin or due to something much
more strange, I have noticed reports of such a phenomenon in
quite a few other cases.

For example, I interviewed several relatives within a large
Arizona family who had been travelling in multiple cars (as a
kind of car caravan) back home through norhern Arizona,
returning from a funeral in another state. In mid-afternoon on a
bright summer day, they were travelling west on State Highway
260 through the Apache Sitgreaves National Forest when, coming
around a curve, those in the first car something so startling in
the sky that they pulled off the roadway to watch it. In turn,
the family members following did likewise, equally in awe.

What they clearly saw at disconcertingly close range was what
looked like "some weird aircraft from the future" that reminded
each of them of nothing so much as, "Batman's airplane"! In came
near, then hovered for an extended period before leaving. The
thing had a window-like panel made of "something resembling
translucent black obsidian" (volcanic glass).

The thing that puzzled all of them, afterward, the most was not
the mysterious craft -- strange though it was! It was this:
Traffic was terribly dense on that highway through mountains and
pine trees on such summer days, as it usually is. But when the
sighting ocurred, everyone I interviewed said something just
seemed, as one described it as unnatural and weird, like they
were somehow isolated into some kind of time 'pocket' from the
rest of the world. They said it felt kind of like everything was
inexplicably slowed down, and most puzzling of all was that with
the heavy traffic they had been experiencing for many miles both
before and after the encounter seemed non-existent during the
sighting!


Ray Stanford

"You know my method. It is founded upon the observance of trifles." --
Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery








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                        Re: UFO Magazine UK - Miller

From: Stuart Miller <Stuart.Miller4.nul>
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 12:28:03 -0000
Fwd Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 11:16:27 -0500
Subject: Re: UFO Magazine UK - Miller


>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 11:24:39 -0500
>Subject: Re: UFO Magazine UK

>>From: John Harney <magonia.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 19:51:49 -0000
>>Subject: Re: UFO Magazine UK

<snip>

>On the edition in my hand, the "Volume 24, No. 1, Jan" is found
>in white, the smallest type font on the cover, and is located
>just above the tiny color image of the U.S. flag, to the right
>of which reads USA $6.99, and just below that is the Canadian
>flag in color, followed by CS7.99. Does your issue there show
>those flags and the US and Canadian prices?

Could you do me a favour and count the number of stars on the
American flag? It matters. If there are 49, then you are paying
the correct cover price. If there are 50, then you are being
overcharged by one dollar.

>If not, did it ever
>dawn on you and Stuart Miller that I might be describing the
>cover for a Newsstand Edition as sold here in the U.S.A. and in
>Canada, which could necessarily list something the British
>edition does not, perhaps for purpose of some requirement,
>possibly, of the US distributors that the issue be stated as I
>have quoted for purpose of keeping track of which issue they
>already have up on the newsstands?

No, it never dawned on me at all.

>With the magazine editor's permission, I would be happy to scan
>the cover and send you and Stuart a copy.

You do not have his permission. He doesn't like you at the
moment. He thinks you're horrid. Please respect our copyright
and under no circumstances do you have permission to reproduce
anything from the magazine. Failure to adhere to this
instruction will result in action by our lawyers, Sue, Grabbit,
and Run.

Copyright theft Ray is just that. Theft. (Isn't the concept of
irony a wonderful thing?)

>Further more John Harney, it is disgusting of you to say,
>"...tell us if you can still see it", as though to imply that I
>hallucinated it, looking down your pelican beak that is so long
>that your intellectual focus it too poor to think before your
>nose that there just might be a special cover adapted to US or
>Canadian newsstand service.

I don't think John was implying you were hallucinating. I think
he was trying to suggest you weren't very bright.

>I am reasonably confident that by now Stuart Miller knows that I
>was right (He could easily discover that there is such a US &
>Canada newsstand edition by asking the publisher.) but is too
>ashamed of his hasty mistake to have told the list.

On that point you are right. I have never felt so ashamed in all
my life. As someone who is used to speaking to and helping those
with issues, I feel in this case Ray I have let you down badly.
I am sorry.

>Do you really suppose that I made up such a trivial detail,
>either consciously (or unconsciously, hallucinated it)? Stupid!
>Motivation, John?! What would your pelican mind suppose would be
>my motivation for adding such an alleged (by you) false and
>trivial detail to my post?

As you know Ray, pelicans eat fish. I think John smelt something
fishy about your observation about the issue details of the mag
and was just pecking around to see if there was anything tasty
to get that enormous beak of his into. I think he struck
paydirt.

>Would you like a signed note from my local bookseller, Books-A-
>Million, where I bought the newsstand copy, on their letterhead,
>confirming what the cover says? :)

Could you? It would be helpful. Then perhaps it can be lodged in
the UFO UpDates Archives at the Virtually Strange site so that
it can assume it's importance and position alongside such other
relevant missives like the Eisenhower Briefing and Kennedy's
note to his milkman.

>I invite US and Canadian List members

If there is a party Ray, I want to be invited.

>to just have a look at the
>current newsstand edition of UFO Magazine if you can find it at
>a good bookstore or newsstand and confirm to this List (if
>you've time and inclination) how wrong Pelican John is on this
>matter.

Just one small point. UFO Magazine is available in the States
not only from good bookstores but bad ones as well.

>The last laugh on this issue (pun intended) is mine, John. :)

If you say so Ray.


Stuart Miller








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                         Re: UFO Magazine UK - Hale

From: Roy Hale <roy.nul>
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 12:54:19 -0000
Fwd Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 11:17:57 -0500
Subject: Re: UFO Magazine UK - Hale


>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 11:24:39 -0500
>Subject: Re: UFO Magazine UK

>The last laugh on this issue (pun intended) is mine, John. :)


Hi,

And so it seems  ufologly is slowly dying, consumed with numbers
on papers, dented egos and trivial newstand chatter, who blames
people  on being sceptical, when such tripe is spoken about ISNN
or ISSN numbers, inside pieces of printed paper.

And so the debunkers slowly recline in their seats, and say to
each other " Ufology will eat itself ".

Dear Graham, I am so sorry to see your magazine disscusion go
down this route, I hope you are looking down on this with utter
frustration.


Roy








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                     Tarter Discusses Search For Aliens

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 05:17:44 -0800
Fwd Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 11:18:53 -0500
Subject: Tarter Discusses Search For Aliens



Source: The Daily Mississippian

http://www.thedmonline.com/vnews/display.v/ART/2004/02/27/403f5188365a6

February 27, 2004

Tarter Discusses Search For Aliens

by Erin M. Smith
DM Campus News Editor


Renowned scientist Jill Tarter spoke Tuesday at the Ford Center
for the Performing Arts, detailing her role in the search for
extraterrestrial life.

Tarter, director of the once-defunct Search for Extraterrestrial
Intelligence program, described the process in combing through
the expanding universe, exploring the possibility of intelligent
life.

"When we ask ourselves are we the only one in the universe,
we're asking, 'Are there any other intelligent...life in the
universe that wonder if they are alone.'"

The SETI program, which was featured in the 1997 movie
"Contact," written by famed astronomer Carl Sagan, utilizes what
Tarter called "primitive technology" to search for life.

"We are the youngest technology out there," Tarter said,
explaining that if she and her team of scientist make contact,
the signal sent by the extraterrestrial life would be far more
superior.

However, to begin her search for the life, Tarter said, she and
her scientists use radio telescopes to find signals emitted by
light, starts and planetary objects.

"The signal from the stars are very, very faint," Tarter said.
"If you take a single cell phone (transmitter) and put the
transmitter on the moon, it is the second strongest signal in
the sky."

With the SETI program, Tarter began searching for the faint
signals in 1975 after she received her doctorate from the
University of California at Berkeley, and when NASA terminated
the program in 1993, Tarter had to find another resource to
continue her love.

"We are rising from the ashes of congressional termination,"
Tarter said.

Tarter and her colleagues created the privately funded Project
Phoenix, a project that uses the largest radio telescope in the
world in Arecibo, Puerto Rico, with another in England to search
for signals simultaneously.

"We haven't yet detected a signal, but we really haven't done a
lot of searching."

With Project Phoenix, the telescopes can only comb through about
one million stars, around 0.001 percent of the Milky Way Galaxy,
Tarter said.

In 2007, Tarter said scientists are planning to build the Allen
Telespan Array, a group of more than 300 radio telescopes in
California, to expand in their search for signals.

"It will be 300 times faster than today in 2007."

After Tarter and her team of scientists find a signal, she said
they will try to deduce from the information the composition of
the planet's atmosphere. If water, ozone and methane are present
in the atmosphere, like Earth, scientist believe life also may
be existent, Tarter said.

The lecture was sponsored by the UM National Remote Sensing and
Space Law Center, the Sarah Isom Center for Women and the
Mississippi Space Grant Program.

Although Tarter has yet to find any life, she still remains an
eternal optimist.

"I've worked hard in this project, and that's no reason at all
to be (discouraged), because it's a huge universe out there."










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                       Re: UFO Magazine UK - Stanford

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 09:01:12 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 11:20:59 -0500
Subject: Re: UFO Magazine UK - Stanford


>From: Amy Hebert <vanguard.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 13:49:53 -0600
>Subject: Re: UFO Magazine UK

<snip>

>I do not wish to get in the middle of this discussion but I have
>an October issue of UFO Magazine here in front of me that has
>printed on the cover "VOLUME 23 No.10 oct" (caps are printed
>that way on the cover).

>It says it's printed in Great Britain and indicates it is "ISNN
>0966-1107" on the back side of the front cover.

>Perhaps this is done for issues printed in the United States but
>not in Great Britain? Check with the publishers?
>
>I will scan the cover of the issue I have and post it on a web
>page for your review tonight.

>Please excuse this intrusion. Just trying to help.


Hi Amy,

Thanks. I figured someone out there should have an issued-for-
US-Canada market copy on hand to confirm my statement, and I
naturally appreciate your reporting. My copy, too, had the word
VOLUME in caps, but since Errol has indicated he doesn't care
for words in all-caps, I just didn't write it that way.


Ray Stanford

"Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known."
-- Carl Sagan








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                Re: Close Call Meteorite 2004 AS1 - Dickenson

From: Ray Dickenson <editor.nul>
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 14:54:08 +0000
Fwd Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 11:24:12 -0500
Subject: Re: Close Call Meteorite 2004 AS1 - Dickenson


>From: Jaime Maussan <jaimemaussanmx.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 14:16:59 -0600 (CST)
>Subject: Close Call Meteorite 2004 AS1

>David Whitehouse writes at bbcnews.com that some astronomers
>believed that asteroid 2004 AS1 had a one-in- four chance of
>hitting the Earth on January 14 or 15. At less than a mile
>wide, it was not big enough to cause a major extinction event

http://www.perceptions.couk.com/uef/thump2.txt

[Quote]

"Ananova:

'Comet disaster caused nuclear winter in dark ages'

A "nuclear winter" that plunged people into starvation 1,500
years ago may have been caused by a comet colliding with Earth.

Astronomers at Cardiff University say a 6th century impact
caused crop failures, widespread starvation and summer frosts.

The team has studied evidence from tree rings which suggests the
Earth underwent a series of very cold summers around 536-540AD.

Historical references from the period, known as the Dark Ages,
tell of crop failures and summer frosts, researchers said.

Scientists in the School of Physics and Astronomy believe this
was caused by a comet hitting the earth and exploding in the
upper atmosphere.

Dr Derek Ward-Thompson, who supervised the project, said: "One
of the exciting aspects of this work is that we have re-
classified the size of comet that represents a global threat.

"This work shows that even a comet of only half a kilometre in
size could have global consequences. Previously nothing less
than a kilometre across was counted as a global threat.

[End quote]

Earlier

http://www.perceptions.couk.com/uef/thump.txt

shows slow realization of facts.

For Terry, Tim and Ray's concerns re "The Rosetta Disk By The
Long Now Foundation

>The more I think about it, the more I view these aliens as a
>real threat.

http://www.perceptions.couk.com/uef/setigift2.html

considers the various probabilities.


cheers

Ray D
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Perceptions" http://www.perceptions.couk.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~





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                   UFO Mystry Continues On Indo-Pak Border

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 11:26:44 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 11:26:44 -0500
Subject: UFO Mystry Continues On Indo-Pak Border




Source: The Times Of India

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/526158.cms

Saturday, February 28, 2004


UFO Mystry Continues On Indo-Pak Border
Yudhvir Rana

AMRITSAR: The mystery shrouding around an unidentified flying
object, which was spotted close to the international border with
Pakistan by a police post sentry and a few villagers of Chann
Kalan, continued on the third day.

Though Border Security Force authorities have sent a protest
note to Pak rangers on Saturday asking them to return any
'object' or glider if the same had landed in their territory
alongwith any accompanying human being but there are senior
officials in BSF who discount the possibility of landing of any
human beings across the border =96 on the basis of reports about
the size of flying object collected by them.

Notably on the evening of February 26, a sentry of Fatehpur
chowki had spotted an eagle-like flying object that originated
from India and landed about 500 meters inside Pakistan 's
territory.

Darbara Singh, commandant, 80 Battalion told that they have
reports that Pakistan was conducting para-gliding, para-dropping
and hand-glider exercise close to the border in the area ranging
from Ravi Syphon and Mayani village, adding that there was no
report of border crossing of any object with them.









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                   NASA Makes Public The Documents On UFO

From: Terry Groff <terry.nul>
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 09:49:04 -0600
Fwd Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 11:31:06 -0500
Subject: NASA Makes Public The Documents On UFO



NASA Makes Public The Documents On UFO: Truth About Tragedy In
Keksburg

http://english.pravda.ru/science/19/94/378/12181_.html
02/28/2004 17:20

(uncorrected text from Pravda)

NASA agreed to make public the documents on the tragedy in
Keksburg after persistent requests of Sci-Fi TV channel. The
town in Pensilvania went down in history after its residents saw
unusual phenomenon on December 9, 1965 - ball of flames in the
evening sky. The ball was landing.

The landing area was quickly encircled by the military who later
evacuated something out of it. Strict measures of secrecy were
taken - the people of Keksburg became blocked in their town.
Local press increased the tension by writing that UFO had landed
there. No official comments were made. First there was a version
of the fall of Soviet space device "Kosmos-96" designed to
research Venus. However, later this version was rejected.

There is no definite answer what it was. From that time, people
started calling Keksburg "second Rosewell". Near that town in
New Mexico spaceship of aliens crashed in 1947, some people say.

Such mysteries are important stories for Sci-Fi TV channel
producing programs on existence of extraterrestrial
civilizations and various anomaly phenomena. The channel took
many efforts to make NASA reveal the information on Keksburg
case. NASA decided to follow the requests after facing the
threat of legal proceedings for violating Freedom of Information
Act.

It is early to say that people will hear some sensation news. 36
unclassified pages can contain any information, including some
well-known things. The ally of Sci-Fi - Coalition for Freedom of
Information - said that after studying these documents it will
decide what to do next. Meanwhile, Pentagon does not intend to
reveal its documents on the Keksburg case.

Remarkably, former Head of White House employees in Bill
Clinton"s Administration John Podesta is one of the supporters
of revealing the truth on UFOs. This former high-ranking
official is amused with the habits of Washington bureaucracy. "I
will not exaggerate by saying that Washington entered sci-fi
era. Revealing the identity of CIA agent is acceptable, while
the records of the catastrophe in Keksburg happened 38 years ago
are kept secret.", said John Podesta sarcastically making
analogies with the recent scandals about Iraqi crisis.


Source: Russkaya Ufologichaskaya Set

http://rufon.r2.ru/








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                         Re: UFOs & Fairies? - Pope

From: Nick Pope <nick.nul>
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 17:23:31 -0000
Fwd Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 12:33:10 -0500
Subject: Re: UFOs & Fairies? - Pope


>From: Thiago Luiz Ticchetti <thiagolt.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 15:51:15 -0300
>Subject: UFOs & Fairies?

>I would like to know if anyone has information about the
>correlation between UFOs and fairies, mythology, legends,
>folklore and so on.

Thiago,

Many people have made such a correlation. Perhaps the two most
notable are folklorist Thomas E. Bullard and author Jacques
Vallee. Bullard's "UFO Abductions: The Measure of a Mystery" is
worth a look, as are Vallee's books, especially "Passport to
Magonia" and "Dimensions".

I summarised some of these correlations in the first chapter of
my book on alien abductions, "The Uninvited". Some modern
accounts of alien abductions certainly have similarities with
older accounts of human encounters with the little people. This
is apparent, for example, with the Tylwyth Teg of Welsh
mythology or the Celtic tales of Oisin and the Tir na n'Og. Time
relativity is a motif common to the old and the new. Those who
encounter fairy folk often return home to find years have
elapsed, when they thought they had been gone for only a short
time. The parallel with the so-called "missing time" of modern
abduction accounts is intriguing. The theme of fairies stealing
babies and replacing them with changelings has parallels with
the missing fetuses and human/alien hybridisation programs
postulated by some abduction researchers.

To cite an example from my own casefiles, I was working with an
abductee who had deliberately not spoken to her young son about
her experiences. She reported to me that one day the babysitter
had asked the boy if he wished to sleep in the playroom at the
top of the stairs, where he sometimes slept. The child's reply
was as follows:

"I don't want to sleep in that room. If I do, the bad fairies
will come and take me away."


Best wishes,

Nick Pope









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                         Re: UFOs & Fairies? - Clark

From: Jerome Clark <jkclark.nul>
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 13:36:05 -0600
Fwd Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 17:55:37 -0500
Subject: Re: UFOs & Fairies? - Clark


>From: Nick Pope <nick.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 17:23:31 -0000
>Subject: Re: UFOs & Fairies?

>>From: Thiago Luiz Ticchetti <thiagolt.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 15:51:15 -0300
>>Subject: UFOs & Fairies?

>>I would like to know if anyone has information about the
>>correlation between UFOs and fairies, mythology, legends,
>>folklore and so on.

>Many people have made such a correlation. Perhaps the two most
>notable are folklorist Thomas E. Bullard and author Jacques
>Vallee. Bullard's "UFO Abductions: The Measure of a Mystery" is
>worth a look, as are Vallee's books, especially "Passport to
>Magonia" and "Dimensions".

In my opinion Vallee's writings on the alleged correlation
between fairies and UFO occupants are close to worthless. I will
give him credit, however, at least for opening the discussion.
Eddie Bullard, on the other hand, does a masterly job of wending
his way through the complexities and nuances of the matter,
whose treatment otherwise in post-Vallee literature tends toward
the cartoonish and/or polemical.

I also have written on the subject, showing there are
correlations but not in any simplistic, one-to-one sense. The
question is not so much whether supernatural entities exist -
 an unanswerable one - as whether we can experience them, and
how all of this relates to the issues ufologists confront (e.g.,
are experiences necessarily events?). I refer anyone who's
interested to the introductory essay to my book Unexplained!
(1999) and to the chapters "Fairies" and "Merfolk." My "From
Mermaids to Little Gray Men: The Prehistory of the UFO Abduction
Phenomenon," in The Anomalist 8 (Spring 2000): 11-31, continues
the discussion.


Jerry Clark








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                   Re: Whittlesea-Beveridge Photo - Sparks

From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul>
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 15:11:37 EST
Fwd Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 17:58:11 -0500
Subject: Re: Whittlesea-Beveridge Photo - Sparks



http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2004/feb/m26-004.shtml

>From: Dan Bright <ufo.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 15:06:12 -0000
>Subject: Re: Whittlesea-Beveridge Photo - Bright

>>From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 02:45:38 EST
>>Subject: Whittlesea-Beveridge Photo

>>Yet despite all the various postings on this case,
>>including Kodak DC240 digital camera data, not
>>one single person has posted the FOV in Degrees
>>or even raised the question of its absence from analyses until
>>now.

>How could anyone have posted the FOV if it is unknown? Of course
>this is an important part of the analysis, and something about
>which I'm sure many on this list have considered. Indeed, I was
>planning on contacting Kodak myself for this very purpose.
>Thanks for saving me the trouble.
<snip>

Hi Dan,

The point was that "no one even raised the question" (as I said
in my posting), no one said "We're lacking fundamental data
here, we need the FOV or we cannot go on like this, it's
ridiculous!" No one commented that without the FOV you can't do
any analysis of object size/distance, angles, etc. So it was
disconcerting and frustrating to see so many postings were
flying by and no one even stopped to say, "Wait a second! We
can't be spinning our wheels like this when we don't even know
the size of the photo or FOV." No one did that.

Someone needs to step back and take some stock in the level of
knowledge and understanding of basics. The 1958 Trindade photos
are a classic example of this. Over 40 years of alleged
"analyses" by supposed "experts" and not one of them until my
postings on UFO UpDates last year ever even mentioned let alone
used the FOV angular data, or said "We're missing the FOV guys!
We really can't do ANYTHING without the FOV."

As for Tim Shell yeah that's right all UFO "photo analysis" is
about is just the "UFO" image so why not just save everyone a
lot of trouble in photoanalysis and from now on use your amateur
notions and clip out all the rest of the photos, just leave the
UFO images. In fact let's enact a rule that from now on all UFO
photoanalysis will be carried out on the "UFO" images only and
any analysis of background and foreground and other data is
strictly forbidden.

Regards,

Brad








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                       Re: Re: UFOs & Fairies? - Novak

From: John Novak <john.nul>
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 13:05:44 -0800
Fwd Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 18:00:53 -0500
Subject: Re: Re: UFOs & Fairies? - Novak


>From: Nick Pope <nick.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 17:23:31 -0000
>Subject: Re: UFOs & Fairies?

>>From: Thiago Luiz Ticchetti <thiagolt.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 15:51:15 -0300
>>Subject: UFOs & Fairies?

>>I would like to know if anyone has information about the
>>correlation between UFOs and fairies, mythology, legends,
>>folklore and so on.

>Many people have made such a correlation. Perhaps the two most
>notable are folklorist Thomas E. Bullard and author Jacques
>Vallee. Bullard's "UFO Abductions: The Measure of a Mystery" is
>worth a look, as are Vallee's books, especially "Passport to
>Magonia" and "Dimensions".

>I summarised some of these correlations in the first chapter of
>my book on alien abductions, "The Uninvited". Some modern
>accounts of alien abductions certainly have similarities with
>older accounts of human encounters with the little people. This
>is apparent, for example, with the Tylwyth Teg of Welsh
>mythology or the Celtic tales of Oisin and the Tir na n'Og. Time
>relativity is a motif common to the old and the new. Those who
>encounter fairy folk often return home to find years have
>elapsed, when they thought they had been gone for only a short
>time. The parallel with the so-called "missing time" of modern
>abduction accounts is intriguing. The theme of fairies stealing
>babies and replacing them with changelings has parallels with
>the missing fetuses and human/alien hybridisation programs
>postulated by some abduction researchers.

>To cite an example from my own casefiles, I was working with an
>abductee who had deliberately not spoken to her young son about
>her experiences. She reported to me that one day the babysitter
>had asked the boy if he wished to sleep in the playroom at the
>top of the stairs, where he sometimes slept. The child's reply
>was as follows:

>"I don't want to sleep in that room. If I do, the bad fairies
>will come and take me away."


Hi Nick & others,

I am wondering if you are at liberty to tell if the child you
mentioned had any kind of "abnormalities" with his brain.

I have Temporal Lobe Epilepsy, effecting the pineal gland. It
was due to a brain injury when I was 14. However, in my own
research and study, it seems my pineal has been "mis-firing"
from an even earlier age, though it didn't show up as epilepsy
until a few days after the injury.

If you've read anything I have written here or anywhere else,
you might know that I was an active part of James Gilliland's
ECETI for years. While there, I experienced all manner of, not
just UFO, but other paranormal activity that I just don't know
how to fully explain. I have had extremely bizarre experiences
all my life. Most times, I can write off the strangeness to
over-active brain activity taking place.

I do know that because of the nature of the temporal lobe
activity I experience, I am at somewhat of a disadvantage when
trying to give first hand accounts of UFO and paranormal
experiences. However, enough has happened that takes place to me
and other people around me to make me wonder if it isn't just my
temporal lobes lighting up. It seems something else is going on,
especially in the case of UFOs that were seen and sometimes
filmed by large groups.

Those out there who have seen these things for themselves come away
completely different. It is a life altering experience and very
emotional, which then gives direct correlation, I would think, to
these experiences and high temporal lobe activity, much the way the
"religious" or ecstatic experience does as current research is showing
with NDE and drug induced tests.

I guess the logical question here would be, has there been any
research to this end? Is there a way that technology can cause
an increase in temporal lobe activity? If it is fairly easy to
do with electronic or magnetic means, then it would seem to me
that our current grip on reality is tenuous at best and we are
at the liberty of any higher technology or natural force that
can manipulate this.


-John Novak








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              Re: The Rosetta Disk By The Long Now Foundation -

From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul>
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 17:10:54 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 18:02:36 -0500
Subject: Re: The Rosetta Disk By The Long Now Foundation -


>From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 09:29:05 -0600
>Subject: Re: The Rosetta Disk By The Long Now Foundation

>>From: Terry W. Colvin <fortean1.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 14:17:30 -0700
>>Subject: The Rosetta Disk By The Long Now Foundation

>>(Another Rosetta news item)

>>Besides carrying the instruments of my work groups,
>>the Rosetta spacecraft is carrying a 'Rosetta Disk' mounted
>>under the thermal  blankets of the orbiter, made by the Long Now
>>Foundation:

>>http://www.longnow.org/10klibrary/RosettaMission.htm

>Maybe I've read too many berserker stories, but the longer I
>live, the more I feel like we ought to be shutting up about
>ourselves and laying a little low.  Of course the odds of an
>intelligent civilization finding this probe or the Voyagers is
>essentially zero, but...

>Of all the reasons I've heard why we haven't detected signals
>from other intelligences, the one that makes the most sense to
>me is that they're purposely keeping quiet.  I think if you
>watch any of the nature programs on TV, you can't help but feel
>that what nature is, above all else, is one big smorgasbord with
>everything eating everything else.  I just get a gut feeling (so
>to speak) that if there is other life out there in the universe,
>it's gonna be operating in the same way.  Predator and prey.
> Yeah, we might luck out and meet a species that has something
>similar to our own sense of compassion, who might help us
>survive until we can get our technological act together, but I
>wouldn't bet on it.

>The more I think about it, the more I view these aliens as a
>real threat.

>If there turns out to be nothing to worry about, great.  But
>just on the off chance that the nastier critters out there are
>scouting around for fresh meat, I really think we should conduct
>much of our exploration (particularly extra-solar exploration)
>with as much stealth as possible.

I think a far better reason for the SETI Specialists not to have
picked up signals is that they are assuming very primitive ETI
technology. We have known about radio for about 100 years and
for Lasers for roughly half that.

Just down the street there are sunlike stars a billion years
older than the sun. Dr. Barry Downing's work "The Bible and
Flying Saucers" takes sightings back at least a couple of
thousand years before now. And they are stuck with technology at
our level? Mind boggling for its stupidity. One can see why I
prefer the label of SETI cultists.

As someone pointed out to me, digital radio is booming . But
aren't we looking for analog radio?


Stan Friedman

www.v-j-enterprises.com/sfpage.html








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                           Filer's Files #10-2004

From: George A. Filer Majorstar.nul
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 20:25:36 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 09:48:18 -0500
Subject: Filer's Files #10-2004



http://www.nationalufocenter.com/news/printable.php?id=170ℑ=on







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                   Re: Whittlesea-Beveridge Photo - Bright

From: "Dan Bright" <ufo.nul>
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 23:36:39 -0000
Fwd Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 09:49:46 -0500
Subject: Re: Whittlesea-Beveridge Photo - Bright


>From: Brad Sparks <RB47x.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 15:11:37 EST
>Subject: Re: Whittlesea-Beveridge Photo

>The point was that "no one even raised the question" (as I said
>in my posting), no one said "We're lacking fundamental data here,
>we need the FOV or we cannot go on like this, it's ridiculous!"
>No one commented that without the FOV you can't do any analysis
>of object size/distance, angles, etc. So it was disconcerting and
>frustrating to see so many postings were flying by and no one
>even stopped to say, "Wait a second! We can't be spinning our
>wheels like this when we don't even know the size of the photo or
>FOV." No one did that.

Fair enough Brad. Lets hope that Tony Cook is able to gain
access to the camera in order to take the precise measurements
that are required. (On that note, if anyone has any last minute
additions to the 'plan of investigation' please email me direct
by tomorrow evening at the latest, after which it will be
forwarded to Tony in Australia).

>Someone needs to step back and take some stock in the level of
>knowledge and understanding of basics.

In my case, I have next to no real experience in photo analysis,
so I'm on a steep learning curve here. I appreciate the
illuminating posts from knowledgeable analysts like yourself and
others on this List.


Best to all,

Dan

--
Dan Bright
www.theunexplained.info







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              Re: The Rosetta Disk By The Long Now Foundation -

From: Terry Groff <terry.nul>
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 17:37:19 -0600
Fwd Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 09:51:45 -0500
Subject: Re: The Rosetta Disk By The Long Now Foundation -


>From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 17:10:54 -0400
>Subject: Re: The Rosetta Disk By The Long Now Foundation

>>From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 09:29:05 -0600
>>Subject: Re: The Rosetta Disk By The Long Now Foundation

<snip>

>I think a far better reason for the SETI Specialists not to have
>picked up signals is that they are assuming very primitive ETI
>technology. We have known about radio for about 100 years and
>for Lasers for roughly half that.

>Just down the street there are sunlike stars a billion years
>older than the sun. Dr. Barry Downing's work "The Bible and
>Flying Saucers" takes sightings back at least a couple of
>thousand years before now. And they are stuck with technology at
>our level? Mind boggling for its stupidity. One can see why I
>prefer the label of SETI cultists.

>As someone pointed out to me, digital radio is booming . But
>aren't we looking for analog radio?

OSETI is looking in the optional range and most other SETI
projects are looking for analog signals.

One could reason that any signal that might be picked up could
have been broadcast tens of thousands of years ago, perhaps
longer. It may very well be that their civilization was at a
more 'primitive's stage in their technological evolution at that
time. If their civilization has survived all this time, they
could be some of the ones visiting us now.

I'm all for any kind of study whose aim is to detect ETI
anywhere in this universe, whether it's on Melmac or here on
Earth.


Terry Groff
UFO Tools - http://terrygroff.com/ufotools/







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                 Eddie Clontz: Master Of Tabloid Journalism

From: Terry W. Colvin <fortean1.nul>
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 17:01:22 -0700
Fwd Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 10:02:46 -0500
Subject: Eddie Clontz: Master Of Tabloid Journalism


Source: The Economist - London

http://www.economist.com/displaystory.cfm?story_id=S%27%298%3C%28PA%2F%2B%20P%22
%2C%0A

Feb 19th 2004


Eddie Clontz: Master Of Tabloid Journalism

Eddie Clontz, master of tabloid journalism, died on January
26th, aged 56

THE relationship between truth and reporting has ever been a
tricky one. No scene remains undistorted as it passes the eye of
the beholder, and none reaches the page exactly as it was. But
while living with this discrepancy, many journalists struggle
with a much baser temptation. What they really want to put into
their copy is that extraordinary "fact", that jaw-dropping story
retailed by a single source down a crackling telephone line,
which would earn them a banner headline if they could only stand
it up.

Eddie Clontz felt this more than most, and he never resisted the
temptation. As the deviser and, for 20 years, the editor-in-
chief of WEEKLY WORLD NEWS, his delight was to run the wildest
stories he could find. He described himself not as an editor but
as a circus-master, drawing readers into his tent with an
endless parade of fantasies and freaks.

The NEWS had, and has, an unassuming look, a black-and-white
tabloid with blurry graphics that sits at supermarket checkouts
across America, among the chewing gum. But its headlines, in
inch-high sans serif, are another matter. "ARCHEOLOGISTS FIND
MIDDLE EARTH IN NEW JERSEY SWAMP!""SEVEN CONGRESSMEN ARE
ZOMBIES!""TINY TERRORISTS DISGUISED AS GARDEN GNOMES!" ("'These
guys are typical al-Qaeda operatives,' says a top CIA source,
'with beards down to their belt buckles'.") Such stories, all
from one recent issue, would have made Mr Clontz proud.

The NEWS for which he was hired, in 1981, was a sorry affair, a
dumping ground for stories that failed to make the NATIONAL
ENQUIRER. It had been started mostly to make use of the
ENQUIRER's old black-and-white presses after the sister-tabloid
had gone to colour. Mr Clontz soon shook it up. Out went the
tired celebrity gossip; in came space aliens, dinosaurs, giant
vegetables, and a "Psychic" column in which his brother Derek
would find readers' car keys. Circulation soared. In a good
week, it can reach well over a million.

Two stories in particular got Mr Clontz noticed. In 1988, his
organ revealed that "ELVIS IS ALIVE! (King of Rock 'n' Roll
Faked his Death and is Living in Kalamazoo, Mich!)". A few years
later, the NEWS reported that a bat boy, with huge ears and
amber eyes and "eating his own weight in insects each single
day", had been found by scientists in a cave in West Virginia.

Both items were followed up for years. Elvis went on appearing;
Bat Boy escaped, was recaptured by the FBI, fell in love and
endorsed Al Gore for president. Readers wrote in with their own
sightings, bolstering whatever truth the nation believed was
there. In 1993, Mr Clontz dared to kill the resurrected Elvis
("ELVIS DEAD AT 58!")--only to reveal some time later that this
death, too, had been a hoax.

SCALLOPS TO SCOOPS
Sheer chance seemed to bring Mr Clontz to this strange outpost
of journalism. After dropping out of school at 16 and trying his
luck as a scallop fisherman, he became a copy boy on his local
paper in North Carolina. He moved next to a Florida paper, and
from there to the disreputable corner office in the ENQUIRER
building, in a run-down resort near Palm Beach, from which he
was to entertain and terrify America.

His own politics were mysterious. Under the pseudonym "Ed
Anger", he wrote a NEWS column so vitriolically right-wing that
it possibly came from the left. Anger hated foreigners, yoga,
whales, speed limits and pineapple on pizza; he liked flogging,
electrocutions and beer. No, Mr Clontz would say, he had no idea
who Anger really was. But he was "about as close to him as any
human being."

Mr Clontz also always denied that his staff made the stories
up. It was subtler than that. Many tips came from "freelance
correspondents" who called in; their stories were "checked", but
never past the point where they might disintegrate. ("We don't
know whether stories are true," said Mr Clontz, "and we really
don't care.") The staff also read dozens of respectable
newspapers and magazines, antennae alert for the daft and the
bizarre. When a nugget was found, Mr Clontz would order them to
run away with it, urging them to greater imaginative heights by
squirting them with a giant water-pistol.

Yet he also showed care for authenticity. If a story resisted
tracking down, he would give it the dateline "Bolivia". If it
relied on "scientific research", he would make sure the
scientists were Bulgarian. Writers who made up the names of
Georgia natives terrorised by giant chickens would be asked to
check in the telephone book to make sure they did not exist.
Loving editorial attention was given to the face of Satan when
he appeared in a cloud formation over New York.

The result of this was that many readers appeared to believe Mr
Clontz's stories. Letters poured in, especially from the
conservative and rural parts of the country where Ed Anger's
columns struck a chord. If a sensible man like Anger kept
company with aliens and 20-pound cucumbers, perhaps those
stories too were true. When the NEWS reported the discovery of a
hive of baby ghosts, more than a thousand readers wrote in to
adopt one. But the saddest tale was of the soldier who wrote, in
all seriousness, offering marriage to the two-headed woman.


--
"Only a zit on the wart on the heinie of progress." Copyright 1992, Frank Rice


Terry W. Colvin,
Sierra Vista, Arizona (USA)
fortean1.nul







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                     Did UFO Cause Calgary Power Outage?

From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO <hbccufo.nul>
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 16:41:57 -0800
Fwd Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 10:04:51 -0500
Subject: Did UFO Cause Calgary Power Outage?


Calgary, Alberta - Did A UFO Cause A Power Outage?

Date: February 2001
Time: evening

I received a telephone call from a woman who resides in Calgary,
Alberta. The family has a very good view of the city of Calgary.
One evening the family watched a craft over top of Calgary back
in 2001. They reported observing an object for approximately two
hours. The lady told me the family got a new telescope for
Christmas and this evening in February was the first time they
really tried it out. It was cold  outside so they set the
telescope up indoors and viewed the skies from the comfort of
their home looking through one of their large living room
windows. The lights were turned off as they did not want to have
their view obscured.

The family noticed a bright object high in the sky and first
thought it may have been the planet Venus. So they turned the
telescope slightly to have a peek at it. (At this point I should
tell you that the weather conditions were good and the skies
clear and the temperature down to about minus 29).

As they lined up the telescope using the view finder and then
looked through the scope they were surprised to see an object
which was shrouded in clouds. There were no other clouds visible
in the sky that they noticed. The object that was witnessed  had
an elliptical shape to it. One end of it was poking out of the
cloud cover and they were surprised to see windows on the craft.
She said she could clearly see through the telescope that the
object had windows which ran down along its side.

The lady said it looked as if whatever this was, was trying to
impersonate a star. The object would move around the sky very
slowly and if anyone on the ground would have seen it, they may
have just thought it to be a star or planet. She said it was
very high up in altitude. After taking roughly a five minute
break from looking through their telescope she came back and now
viewed two bright objects. One was stationary over top of the
other and offset by half the length of one of the crafts. Both
objects still wrapped in a cloud cover and she saw a long tube
which was connecting the two objects at roughly a forty five
degree angle. The woman said it was a beautiful, cylindrical
shaped tube wrapped in cloud. Also it was reported that the
cloud cover stuck very close to the shape of the objects and not
spread out across the sky.

It was the bottom object, or the end which was sticking out of
the cloud cover that she could see had windows, which were the
same shape of the objects or roundish. When the objects moved
directly overhead of Calgary all of the electricity went out.
When the objects moved to the outskirts of the city the power
came back on and eventually the crafts moved out of sight. The
lady said it was a very exciting night and one they would never
forget.

I made an enquiry to see if there was a power outage in the
early New Year of 2001. I was told there was an electrical
disruption in February of 2001.

Thank you to the witness for the report.

Brian Vike, Director
HBCC UFO Research
Home - Phone 1 250 845 2189
email: hbccufo.nul
Website: http://www.hbccufo.com







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                        A Secret Encampment In B.C.?

From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO <hbccufo.nul>
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 16:51:00 -0800
Fwd Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 10:07:43 -0500
Subject: A Secret Encampment In B.C.?


A Secret Encampment In B.C.?
Date: Friday, February 27 @ 01:13:25 CST
Topic: British Columbia Reports

Posted: February 27, 2004

Hi Brian

Just read your story on the CAUS website. I was born in
Vancouver, but have spent much of the last ten years in Arizona.
I'm very close friends with some of the most recognized names in
UFO investigations, and in fact, lectured on the topic myself in
the '90s.

Since you're going to be visiting this lady with regard to her
UFO experience, and you obviously are a B.C. resident yourself,
I have some information that you may be interested in and might
want to pursue further.

I used to train horses in the 100 Mile House area around 1980-
81. Some of our clients were wealthy German and Swiss families
who seems quite out of place considering the remote location. In
1991, while staying in Paradise Valley, AZ, I was told by a
well-known Bulgarian Ufologist that B.C. had been home to a
secret German encampment where high-tech flying saucers and
advanced aerial vehicles had been engineered and tested since
the '50s. It was said to be isolated and near a railroad.
Putting 2 and 2 together, I asked a friend of my dad's, a Lac La
Hache resident since 1955 if he'd heard any stories about odd
objects seen in the skies, and a secret encampment of sorts.

To my surprise, he answered right away, with a "YES" to both
inquiries. Plenty of sightings and definitely a remote, highly
guarded, foreign-inhabited, self-contained village. There are
several mines on the property and their supplies and personal
are largely brought in by float plane. This fellow used to
deliver oil to most ranches and businesses in the Cariboo - so
he knew who and what was out there. Nobody I've ever told this
to has investigated further, which still leaves me wondering
what is going on.

The location is called Eagle, and /or Murphy Lake. Both names
show up on the topographical map. It is south and east of the
Lac La Hache ... I believe near the Green Lake area. From what
I've heard, armed guards will meet you on the roughly-kept
logging road and deny entry to outsiders. Sounds tougher than
Area 51 to get a glimpse of.

If the opportunity arises, perhaps asking a few questions from
locals around Lilloet will get you a bit more information, or
some nervous glances. Their reactions will tell you a lot. That
area is well known to hunters, as I understand it, and they know
to keep away from Eagle lake.

Good luck with your investigations. Nice to meet a fellow CAUS
fan. Peter is a great friend of mine and an incredible crusader
for UFO information.

Regards,
(name deleted) Richmond, B.C.

Brian Vike, Director HBCC UFO Research Canadian Toll Free UFO
Hotline 1 866 262 1989 - Free call. Home - Phone 1 250 845 2189
email: hbccufo.nul Website: http://www.hbccufo.com







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                Budd Hopkins' Article On Witness Intimidation

From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 20:52:22 EST
Fwd Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 10:10:47 -0500
Subject: Budd Hopkins' Article On Witness Intimidation


http://www.intrudersfoundation.org/witness_intimidation.html

Saw the above article about UFO witness/abductee intimidation.

Feeling big time validated and continuing hot pursuit.

Thanks Budd Hopkins for bringing it up.

These guys will get nabbed sooner or later and then we'll get to
the bottom of this harrassment nonsense that's gone on far too
long in this the United States.


Best,

Greg









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                        Re: UFOs & Fairies? - Rudiak

From: David Rudiak <DRudiak.nul>
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 19:26:23 -0800
Fwd Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 10:13:26 -0500
Subject: Re: UFOs & Fairies? - Rudiak


UFOs & Fairies? (& Little Green Men)

>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 13:36:05 -0600
>Subject: Re: UFOs & Fairies? - Clark

>In my opinion Vallee's writings on the alleged correlation
>between fairies and UFO occupants are close to worthless.

>I also have written on the subject, showing there are
>correlations but not in any simplistic, one-to-one sense. The
>question is not so much whether supernatural entities exist -
>an unanswerable one - as whether we can experience them, and
>how all of this relates to the issues ufologists confront (e.g.,
>are experiences necessarily events?). I refer anyone who's
>interested to the introductory essay to my book Unexplained!
>(1999) and to the chapters "Fairies" and "Merfolk." My "From
>Mermaids to Little Gray Men: The Prehistory of the UFO Abduction
>Phenomenon," in The Anomalist 8 (Spring 2000): 11-31, continues
>the discussion.

A side-bar on the possible connections between fairies and
aliens concerns the the origins of the term "Little Green Men."
We delved into this back in December, 2001, two of my posts on
possible comic book origins below:

http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2001/dec/m26-012.shtml

http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2001/dec/m31-018.shtml

Now here's some more. The New York Times now has its clipping
files in electronic form dating back to 1851. This enables
keyword searches for old articles (about ten thousand times
faster than trying to find them by going through the Times
Index). This doesn't solve the question of the origins of
"little green men" applied to aliens, but does provide some
further insight. Here's what I found when I searched the phrase
"little green men:"

The earliest use of "Little Green Man/Men" in the New York Times
dates to Dec. 6, 1902, in a book review of a children's fairy
tale:

"There are more wonderful adventures in the story of 'The Gift
of the Magic Staff,' by Fannie E. Ostrander ...(Fleming H.
Revell Company). Paul is the boy who, because he is a nice sort
of boy who does the best he can under any circumstances, is
given the magic staff by the Little Green Man, cuts steps in the
fog, climbs up to visit the cloudland fairies, and does many
other unusual things."

[Note that this "little green man" predates previously given
"earliest" LGM attributed to Kipling's 'Puck of Pook's Hill'
(dated 1906)].

The next NYT reference dates to June 12, 1950, and refers to a
1927 novel by Robert Nathan that Disney was planning to make
into an animated feature (but apparently later dropped):

"'The Woodcutter's House,' a fantasy by Robert Nathan, will be
Walt Disney's next project, combining live action with
animation. ...According to Disney's present plans, the only
animated character in the picure will be Nathan's Little Green
Man, who is the confidant of the woodland animals in the
story..."

These "little green men" stem from fairy tales and folklore. The
first NYT reference that may be connected to sci-fi and aliens
comes next year, announcing a sci-fi/mystery novel called "The
Case of the Little Green Men" (Phoenix books) by Mack Reynolds.
The book review by Anthony Boucher on Sept. 23, 1951 describes
it this way:

"This first novel by a rising writer of science-fantasy shorts
turns a bewildered private detective loose in the strange world
of science fiction..., gathered in an anonymous city for the
1952 National Science Fiction Convention."

This suggests that the term "little green men was already part
of the sci-fi genre going back to at least 1951. However, the
first crystal clear reference to LGM from outer space in the NYT
dates to Dec. 4, 1955 in another review of a book called
"Martians, Go Home," by Fredric Brown (E. P. Dutton & Co.), a
sci-fi satire:

"Just as science fiction had so often predicted, they finally
landed on earth (in 1964). The Martians, that is. And, still
true to prophecy, they were little green men. From there on out,
however, any resemblance of the real thing to the prophesied was
purely coincidental, for the extra-terrestrials were 'churlish,
detestable, execrable, fiendish, insolent, impudent, jerring,
jabbering *** kill-joys.' They were a crew of leering peeping-
Toms who stuck their noses into every human activity from making
laws to making love, and their gibes from the sidelines were
hardly conducive to the success of either activity."

Note how the "little green men" part is described as being "true
to prophecy," another indication that the term LGM referring to
aliens well predates this.

The last 50's reference is in a commentary (May 19, 1959) by
Robert Moses on the arts called "Needed: New Medicis for New Art
Centers." Deep in the article Moses bemoans the lack of arts in
American culture:

"In music, if you talk Beethoven's Fifth, barrel organ stuff
from Puccini or the Rimsky-Korsakoff ballets to teenagers, you
will find that their vote is for "The Little Green Men from
Mars" and "Take Me to Your Leader, Cha, Cha, Cha."

The search engine came up with 7 LGM hits from the 1950s and 15
for the 1960s (as far as I searched). The 1960's LGM all seemed
to be used in a humorous or derogatory fashion. E.g., referring
to the Ranger 7 photographic moon mission, on Aug. 1, 1964 they
quoted JPL director William H. Pickering, "Well, if you mean
were there any little green men, the answer is 'no.'" Then to
hammer it home, they also made Pickering's comment their
"Quotation of the Day."

Another example of sneering use of "LGM" came with announcement
of the AF sponsoring a "scientific" study of UFOs in 1966, what
became the infamously biased Condon Commission. Announcing the
planned study on August 21, 1966:

"The Air Force plans to have one of the nation's leading
universities ...coordinate an intensive scientific study of
U.F.O. sightings and publish detailed reports. An Air Force
scientist said: 'We still think the chances of finding evidence
of little green men is rather small, but we want to show we have
a completely open mind on the subject.'"

The Wall Street Journal also now has historical clippings in
electronic form and can be searched. The earliest use of "little
green men" came in the 1960s (four instances). The first dates
to Dec. 21, 1960, a rather interesting article about how contact
with aliens could conceivably happen any day and how NASA was
concerned:

"...[NASA] thinks we'd better get ready to discover that we
earthlings aren't alone. Any time now, earth could discover
'intelligent life' in other parts of the universe, warned NASA
in a rather gloomy report the other day. But we'd better watch
out. We might stumble onto a superior race that would cause our
own civilization to crumble. This is the standard sort of
science fiction pessimisim, which assumes the hostility of the
little green men with the wiggly antennae. We're inclined to be
more hopeful..." Then the WSJ does what it usually does--reduce
everything to money. They add that unlike many humans, the
aliens wouldn't expect a handout.

Two other references involve UFO debunkery and have to do with
the Condon Commission:

(May 3, 1968) "Congressional UFOing. If you are a flying saucer,
tremble. Rep. J. Edward Roush has just called called for a
Congressional investigation. Congressman Roush, it seems, isn't
satisfied with a study of unidentified flying objects conducted
by the University of Colorado under Air Force auspices... Now,
UFOs are hard to investigate. First you have to identify them.
Various suggestions include little green men, mass
hallucinations, the planets Jupiter, Venus and Mars, and a type
of lightening that comes in balls and floats (the Germans have a
word for it, kugelblitz). Personally, every UFO we have seen has
defied identification by the clever tactic of turning into an
airplane just when it got close enough for a good look. So it's
understandable that the Air Force stuy has had its problems.
Somehow, though, we doubt that typical Congressional
investigating methods would do much better. Marsh gas is
allergic to klieg lights. And how do you subpoena a kugelblitz,
let alone a little green man?"

(Jan. 15, 1969) "A Sound Conclusion. Controversy has already
enveloped a new report debunking suggestions that unidentified
flying objects are likely to be spaceships from other planets.
...One thing has always puzzled us, though. If someone did prove
UFOs were peopled with little green men, what are we supposed to
do about it? If flying saucers are manifestations of a superior
intelligence, presumably it will make itself known to us when it
deems us ready. In the meantime, frankly, we have enough other
things to worry about. The latest report, done ...at a cost of
$500,000, says further investigation of UFOs isn't worth a lot
more trouble and public expense. Whether it's science or history
or just common sense, that strikes us as a sound conclusion."

Interestingly, the latter commentary doesn't totally dismiss the
idea that UFOs are real. Instead the logic is that there is
nothing that could be done about them anyway, so why bother
spending any more tax dollars? (Back to arguing the bottom
line.) Being good capitalists, no doubt the WSJ would prefer the
government give the money to them instead.

Independently I found another LGM use in the Austin Statesman,
Nov. 9, 1957, (on the heels of the Nov. 1957 UFO flap) by
syndicated Washington columnist Frederick Othman:

"New Flying Saucer Epidemic On. All over this land again are
flying saucers... No little green men have climbed out of these
celestial vehicles so far, but in another couple of days I
wouldn't be surprised..."

The upshot of this search is that use of "little green men" was
obviously well-engrained in the venacular in the 1950s and seems
to have a connection to science fiction dating back to at least





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                         Re: The Illuminati - Gates

From: Robert Gates <RGates8254.nul>
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 23:37:22 EST
Fwd Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 12:13:41 -0500
Subject: Re: The Illuminati - Gates



>From: Eleanor White <eleanor.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 16:09:59 -0500
>Subject: Re: The Illuminati

>>From: Robert Gates <RGates8254.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 01:29:50 EST
>>Subject: Re: The Illuminati

><snip>

>>>don't have either the first hand knowledge or the time to
>>>debate this, I'm just passing on what I hear all day every day
>>>from the shortwave shows.

>>Alot of what is on shortwave radio is drival at best, so extreme
>>care should be used when repeating it.

>The shows I listen to usually cite their references, and urge
>listeners to "not believe them [hosts]" but check the sources. I
>would say that by far the greater drivel is heard from
>mainstream sources, who often ignore real issues and fill your
>TV screen, radio speaker, or printed pages with frivolous
>nonsense. Many of the _opinions_ expressed on shortwave I don't
>buy, but the considerable amount of cited evidence is more than
>worth the time to listen.

>The internal bombs planted in the Oklahoma City federal building
>were one example of issues that never make it to mainstream
>outlets.

Eleanor,

One point worth mentioning and its applies to UFOs and other
unusual events. So often we hear reports of events (say UFO or
otherwise) they are promptly debunked and discredited say like
Roswell and you find out later that there really was something
more too it.

In the OKC bombing we were told after a monumentous govt
investigation that Timothy McVeigh and a crony were
responsible... end of story. Never mind eyewitness testimony to
the FBI that other partys were seen leaving the area, never mind
connection to White Supremecy groups were made blah blah blah.

Now we have the main FBI agent (now retired) who was responsible
for the investigation saying that the investigation was bogus
and if he would have been in the same position he would have re-
opened the investigation etc., etc. Apparently it appears that
Timothy "Oswald" McVeigh had co-conspirators

So the next time we hear some skeptibunker say "Well Project
Bluebook said....." we know, as we have always known, that it
may not be accurate, nor evidence may have been overlooked, or
ignored.


Cheers,

Robert







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                                 Ed Walters?

From: Aaron LeClair <force.nul>
Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 00:17:42 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 12:15:34 -0500
Subject: Ed Walters?


Hello List,

I haven't heard any recent news on Ed Walters. Does anyone know
if he has any recent video, or photos? How about any recent
abduction claims?

I recall reading in his books that he has one or two children,
who would be grown by now. Have they came forward with any news,
or any of their own ufo related experiences?

Also, what was the reason for Ed's divorce?

Thanks for any information you may have.

It seems Ed has kinda faded away, and I've been wanting to read
up on any recent events/claims, but haven't found any.

Again, thanks.







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              Re: The Rosetta Disk By The Long Now Foundation -

From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 23:33:49 -0800
Fwd Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 12:16:55 -0500
Subject: Re: The Rosetta Disk By The Long Now Foundation -


>From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 17:10:54 -0400
>Subject: Re: The Rosetta Disk By The Long Now Foundation

>I think a far better reason for the SETI Specialists not to have
>picked up signals is that they are assuming very primitive ETI
>technology. We have known about radio for about 100 years and
>for Lasers for roughly half that.

Quite true. Actually, in the fictional space predator/prey
scenario, radio is cleverly used by the predator species (or
their robotic emissaries) to track down other species that are
intelligent but not cosmologically or technologically
sophisticated enough put up a good fight. Ripe for the picking,
in other words. A civilization with radio might only last a
couple hundred years, and by then the berserkers and the hungry
aliens have made short work of them.

>Just down the street there are sunlike stars a billion years
>older than the sun. Dr. Barry Downing's work "The Bible and
>Flying Saucers" takes sightings back at least a couple of
>thousand years before now. And they are stuck with technology at
>our level? Mind boggling for its stupidity. One can see why I
>prefer the label of SETI cultists.

Fortunately for us, we are situated in a kind of boondocks of
the galaxy. That may have saved us from invasion and
"utilization" so far. Either that or we're being protected, like
a flock of sheep being protected from the wolves. Fort said he
thought we were property. Vallee thought UFO flaps look like
classic instruction curves. We like to think we're the masters
of our own destiny. but who knows? A little DNA nudge here, a
little technology drop there...

>As someone pointed out to me, digital radio is booming . But
>aren't we looking for analog radio?

From what I understand, we're looking for carrier waves. Whether
the signal is being sent with a modulated amplitude or
frequency, it still needs a carrier wave. What other ways are
there to encode a signal? How about polarization? Combine two
polarized signals and you get 3-D! That could be mighty hard to
decode.

As little as we know about the structure of spacetime, I still
think there may be a shortcut around the Einsteinian lightspeed
limit. Maybe not for matter, but for information at least. Some
way to modulate dark energy? Tom Bearden's virtual space? Some
dimension of space where time isn't quite as limiting. That's
probably what all the _smart_ aliens are using these days.

In the meantime, we're sitting here broadcasting "I Love Lucy"
reruns and waving a big flag that says, "Hey, predator species!
Here we are! Why not drop by and suck out our living brains?
We're ready!"







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               Re: Tracing The Flow Of The Gulf Breeze Money -

From: Robert Gates <RGates8254.nul>
Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 00:40:06 EST
Fwd Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 12:19:36 -0500
Subject: Re: Tracing The Flow Of The Gulf Breeze Money -


>From: Jerry Black <gulfbreezeinfo.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 17:26:18 -0800 (PST)
>Subject: Tracing The Flow Of The Gulf Breeze Money

>>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 16:29:50 -0500
>>Subject: Re: Tracing The Flow Of The Gulf Breeze Money

>>>From: Jerry Black <gulfbreezeinfo.nul>
>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 19:13:29 -0800 (PST)
>>>Subject: Tracing The Flow Of The Gulf Breeze Money


>To Bruce Maccabee & all Interested Parties:

>Mr. Bruce Maccabee, you claim you never knew about a large sum
>of money donated to the MUFON organization by Ed Walters for the
>sole purpose of helping finance the Gulf Breeze sightings
>investigation. As tight as you were with Ed Walters from the
>very beginning, do you expect me to believe that Vivkie Lyons,
>Charles Flannigan, and Rex Salisberry (who learned about the
>money directly from Walters=E2=80=99 lips), all knew and you didn=E2=80=99t=

>know?

Jerry, Listers,

As I have followed this over time (many years) some things were
and are apparent. Rather then debate and drivel back and forth
over email, lets get to the points of the matter at hand.

1) All tales and stories aside, it was my observation that the
principles you mention all had their own bias and agenda, i.e.
all evidence points to the hoax theory.

2) Other then verbal assurances do you, Vickie, Charles or Rex
have:

a) copies of check(s) issued by Ed to MUFON and what the amount
or amounts were? By the way if Rex's answer is something to the
effect of "Well Ed said.." then one could easily conclude that
Rex/Vickie/Charles apparently only believe Ed when they like the
story.

b) copies of any documents signed or sent by Ed and given to
MUFON indicating that the money was either a donation or to help
fund the investigation? You should easily be able to get a copy
of the MUFON tax return for that year and the donation/money
would probably show up. If it does show up it would show up as
a donation

c) copies of checks issued by MUFON to Bruce for that said
amount of money and letters/communications from MUFON to Bruce
indicating that the investigation is being bankrolled by Ed's
money and that the investigation was to be tilted/slanted in
Ed's favor.

Right now one would have to make the assumption that the answer
is something to the effect of "Gee, we don't have that... but we
are connecting 2 plus 3, plus 4 and we come up with 20.

Quite honestly I am still waiting for the evidence of these
allegations and all I have heard is stories and tales. At this
point Ed Walters pictures are more credible then tales and
allegations about MUFON and Bruce M.

>Rex Salisberry told me some weeks ago as I was researching his
>memories about the subject: "Bruce knew about the money."

So what is the basis for Rex claiming Bruce knew about the money?

>Your continued arrogance in denying that you knew about the
>payments, when all the evidence shows you had to know, forces me
>to make the following statement: In my opinion, you, sir, are not
>telling the truth.

It appears like the evidence that is being presented thus far
does not bear to the allegations that are being unloaded.

Cheers,

Robert








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                   Re: Whittlesea-Beveridge Photo - DeMary

From: Tom DeMary <t.demary.nul>
Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 01:32:59 -0600
Fwd Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 12:21:16 -0500
Subject: Re: Whittlesea-Beveridge Photo - DeMary


>From: Victor Golubic <Peetkin.nul>
>Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 18:54:14 EST
>Fwd Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 08:53:22 -0500
>Subject: Re: Whittlesea-Beveridge Photo - Golubic

<snip>

>If everyone will go to this web page you'll see that my
>calculation is very close, except that my assumption of
>the diagonal aperture of 6 mm is instead 6.44
>horizontal . . . which was the other explicitly stated
>alternative.

>http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/DC240/240PICS.HTM

Sorry, I don't understand where 6.44 horizontal came from. I
think that is a number from your calculation below.

>Once your there, page down to the data on the macro
>shot of the dollar bill, it gives all the distance and width
>info from which you'll see that my assumption is quite
>close for 3.0x (others too). If it was 10 mm, then you just
>need to plug it in...I was only giving three reasonable
>points at 1, 2, and 3x.

>There you will read this, "With its zoom lens run out
>to the telephoto end of its range (3.0X), and the camera
>set for "macro" focusing, the DC240 does a very
>respectable job of close-up photography. The minimum
>focusing distance of 9.6 (9.5) inches (0.25 m) results
>in a reasonably "tight" minimum viewable area of
>2.6x3.4 inches (65 x 87 mm)."

This will not work properly, because the lens is altered by the
macro adjustment and focused at 9.5 inches, instead of infinity.
I don't think you can assume that the focal length is still 18mm
when the camera is macro mode.

>Calculating from this: 2 * Arctan ((3.4/2)/9.5) = 20.3
>degrees, one arrives at a value very close to what I
>provided for my 3.0X estimate of 18.9. However,
>this is the true horizontal dimension (confirmed here),
>Therefore, my assumption of the diagonally "film"
>aperture for the CCD being 6 mm is instead 6.44 mm
>horizontal.

OK, you are forcing your previous 18mm calculation to agree with
the FOV of the result from the test report by changing 6mm
diagonal to 6.44 horizontal. I think this is incorrect because
the focal length was no longer 3x. The lens was zoomed out to
3x, set to macro, and adjusted to minimum focus, which changes
the focal length of the lens.

<snipped calculations with 6.44mm sensor length>

After comparing the Kodak specs to a Sony DSC P30 camera,
pulling out hair, and web searching, I think that the Kodak
DC240 has a standard-sized "1/2.7" CCD chip. The active sensor
area has a 6.592mm diagonal, and is 5.270 x 3.960mm (4:3 ratio).
The horizontal FOV is 30 degrees at 10mm focal length.

>The web page I provided should help with many other camera
>manufacturers as well.

http://www.imaging-resource.com

is good. I like:

http://www.dpreview.com

too.

Tom DeMary







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                        Re: UFOs & Fairies? - Aubeck

From: Chris Aubeck <caubeck.nul>
Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 14:27:59 +0000 (GMT)
Fwd Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 12:23:32 -0500
Subject: Re: UFOs & Fairies? - Aubeck


>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark.nul>
>Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 13:36:05 -0600
>Fwd Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 17:55:37 -0500
>Subject: Re: UFOs & Fairies? - Clark

>>From: Nick Pope <nick.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 17:23:31 -0000
>>Subject: Re: UFOs & Fairies?

>>>From: Thiago Luiz Ticchetti <thiagolt.nul>
>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 15:51:15 -0300
>>>Subject: UFOs & Fairies?

>>>I would like to know if anyone has information
>>>about the correlation between UFOs and fairies,
>>>mythology, legends,folklore and so on.


>In my opinion Vallee's writings on the alleged
>correlation between fairies and UFO occupants are
>close to worthless. I will give him credit, however,
>at least for opening the discussion.

<snip>

>I also have written on the subject, showing there are

>correlations but not in any simplistic, one-to-one
>sense. The question is not so much whether
>supernatural entities exist - an unanswerable one -
>as whether we can experience them, and how all of
>this relates to the issues ufologists confront
>(e.g., are experiences necessarily events?).

>Jerry Clark

Hi Thiago, Nick, Jerry,

While I agree with Jerry's opinion that a study of legends and
folklore, especially fairy folklore, offers deep and important
insights into the nature of anomalous experiences, I would like
to add that there most definitely _are_ important correlations
in a "one-to-one sense" that have not been dealt with by any of
the writers mentioned in this thread so far.

It should not be inferred from this that fairy folklore consists
mainly or even partly of UFO reports in disguise, but until
those more simplistic parallels Jerry refers to receive
scholarly attention I doubt very much whether any firm
conclusions can be drawn at all.

I would recommend anyone interested in pursuing this topic to
read up on African, Oceanic, Asian, South, Central and North
American Indian fairy lore, as well as the more popular
European, folklore before passing judgement. As many researchers
working in these areas have discovered, modern UFO sightings not
only blend with but actually confirm ancient folkloric beliefs
about luminous aerial phenomena, supernatural entities,
abductions, and "hybrid children," to name just a few motifs.
This is something that is not so easily detectable from European
traditions, although an exception that comes to mind can be
found in Barbara Rieti's book "Strange Terrain: The Fairy World
in Newfoundland" (1991).

Regards,

Chris







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                   Re: Filer's Files #10-2004 - McGonagle

From: Joe McGonagle <joe.mcgonagle.nul>
Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 16:04:55 -0000
Fwd Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 12:27:01 -0500
Subject: Re: Filer's Files #10-2004 - McGonagle


>From: George A. Filer <Majorstar.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 20:25:36 -0500
>Subject: Filer's Files #10-2004

>http://www.nationalufocenter.com/news/printable.php?id=170ℑ=on

Come off it!

A rock which looked like a crab (complete with moving pincers)
about which "Several experts sent objections stating that the
apparent anomaly claw was caused by a change in camera angle
between two cameras".

Followed by :

"these images interested experts from around the country and
helped point the way to more discoveries". What experts?
Noticeably, the names are ommited.

Then comes:

"It is my opinion that has been confirmed by several others,
that there are alien symbols on the Martian rock nicknamed the
'E Rock'"

Well, you are welcome to your opinion, but who are the "several
others" who confirm your opinion? Are they the same "interested
experts" mentioned above, or just a bunch of hangers-on?

The core of your "Proof of ET" would appear to be the following:

"On the left upper corner is a symbol that appears to be similar
to our capital letter E. The top of the E may be closed like a
P. A second symbol similar to our letter G is also apparent. A
possible face also appears to be carved in the right portion of
the rock. The combination of anomalous features seems to rule
out natural geologic markings. The symbols are most similar to
Greek or old English writing. The E was also used as a Roman
numeral for 250 and was a borrowing from the Phoenician. These
anomalies are shown on both right and left cameras eliminating
camera angle as a possible cause. The symbol G was used as a
Roman numeral for 400, and the seventh letter in the English
alphabet from the Latin."

Give it a few weeks, and someone will find letters that spell
out "Made In The USA", and use that as "proof" that the landers
never reached Mars, or indeed didn't leave Earth in the first
place.

Finally, you write:

"We can make the assumption that based on the evidence, that
intelligent alien life once existed on Mars that the aliens
looked humanoid and used symbols for writing similar to our
own".

Who are "We"? I hope that you don't include me amongst them.
There is no "proof" of any current or historic presence of ET on
Mars here, Just your (and your "several others") opinions. If
this is the sort of "research" that you are intending to use
donations to carry out, then I suggest that no-one should waste
their money on it.


Regards,

Joe







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              Re: Budd Hopkins' Article On Witness Intimidation

From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 16:59:22 +0000
Fwd Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 12:28:14 -0500
Subject: Re: Budd Hopkins' Article On Witness Intimidation


>From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 20:52:22 EST
>Subject: Budd Hopkins' Article On Witness Intimidation

>http://www.intrudersfoundation.org/witness_intimidation.html

>Saw the above article about UFO witness/abductee intimidation.

>Feeling big time validated and continuing hot pursuit.

>Thanks Budd Hopkins for bringing it up.

>These guys will get nabbed sooner or later and then we'll get to
>the bottom of this harrassment nonsense that's gone on far too
>long in this the United States.

>Best,

>Greg

Greg,

The type of intimidation my good friend and colleague Budd
Hopkins is talking about is not by any mysterious, unnamed,
unidentifiable people or groups. It is by people like Phil Klass
(and I have observed him do it) who slur and attempt to browbeat
abductees in public forums and in their publications and media
interviews.

There's a big difference.


 - Dick







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                         Re: UFOs & Fairies? - Boone

From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 12:11:33 EST
Fwd Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 12:29:24 -0500
Subject: Re: UFOs & Fairies? - Boone


Fairies? Little Green Men? How 'bout 'Changelings'?

I remember looking at news clippings from the Poughkeepsie
Journal that went back to the late 1700s. It wasn't called the
Poughkeepsie Journal then it was something like 'The
Poughkeepsie Eagle' or something. Mind you Poughkeepsie is a
city 75 miles north of NY City and is 300 + years old.

I remember it was 1835 or '36 an article about 'Fairie Rings'
was in the paper. It detailed a farmer concerned with the rash
of 'Fairie Rings' that were cropping up and something about farm
animals being disturbed by them.  I first thought of crop
circles which I recall vividly walking through in that region
when it was big time dairy and farming country. They were called
'Fairie Rings' back then too. Last I recalled was probably '78
on the old Van Wagner Road.

Those old newspaper articles  were chock full of stories of 'wee
folk', 'fairies', 'ghosts' and suprisingly 'changelings'.

It never ceases to amaze me that recorded history is full of
these stories and people took them quite seriously back then
without the sniping, harrassment and knucklewalking invalidation
we get from so-called experts and govt. yet it's a-okay to say what
was an old comedian 'Flip Wilson' gag: "The Devil made me do it!"

What also got me was these fairie ring things had similar properties
to what I saw in a Stanton Friedman lecture where he showed
samples of UFO landing trace soil reactions to water.  Dry and
wouldn't absorb water. I believe they were Mr. Ted Phillips' soil
sample results.

These stories went on for well past into the 60's. I'll bet if I
ask the old farming families about them they'll have lots of
data on the fairie ring stuff.

As for LGMs, I recall old comic book stories from the 30s with
aliens in them that were green. I'll ask some of the comic gurus
I know for references.

Changelings? I remember as a kid parents would actually put
things in the room with the baby to prevent changelings! I think
people still do it.


Best,

Greg






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                        Re: UFOs & Fairies? - Benson

From: Tom Benson <sparkle.nul>
Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 12:06:05 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 12:32:29 -0500
Subject: Re: UFOs & Fairies? - Benson


>From: David Rudiak <DRudiak.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 19:26:23 -0800
>Subject: Re: UFOs & Fairies?

>UFOs & Fairies? (& Little Green Men)

>>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 13:36:05 -0600
>>Subject: Re: UFOs & Fairies? - Clark

<snip>

>A side-bar on the possible connections between fairies and
>aliens concerns the the origins of the term "Little Green Men."
>We delved into this back in December, 2001, two of my posts on
>possible comic book origins below:

>http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2001/dec/m26-012.shtml

>http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2001/dec/m31-018.shtml
>
>Now here's some more.

<snip>



Regarding Little Green Men, another source is; " The Little
Genleman in Green, A Fairy Tale," by Una Savin (Loring,
Pubihers, Boston, 1865).


Tom







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                         Re: UFOs & Fairies? - Clark

From: Jerome Clark <jkclark.nul>
Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 12:15:59 -0600
Fwd Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 16:51:54 -0500
Subject: Re: UFOs & Fairies? - Clark


>From: Chris Aubeck <caubeck.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 14:27:59 +0000 (GMT)
>Subject: Re: UFOs & Fairies?

>>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 13:36:05 -0600
>>Subject: Re: UFOs & Fairies?

<snip>

>>I also have written on the subject, showing there are
>>correlations but not in any simplistic, one-to-one
>>sense. The question is not so much whether
>>supernatural entities exist - an unanswerable one -
>>as whether we can experience them, and how all of
>>this relates to the issues ufologists confront
>>(e.g., are experiences necessarily events?).

>While I agree with Jerry's opinion that a study of legends and
>folklore, especially fairy folklore, offers deep and important
>insights into the nature of anomalous experiences, I would like
>to add that there most definitely _are_ important correlations
>in a "one-to-one sense" that have not been dealt with by any of
>the writers mentioned in this thread so far.

>I would recommend anyone interested in pursuing this topic to
>read up on African, Oceanic, Asian, South, Central and North
>American Indian fairy lore, as well as the more popular
>European, folklore before passing judgment. As many researchers
>working in these areas have discovered, modern UFO sightings not
>only blend with but actually confirm ancient folkloric beliefs
>about luminous aerial phenomena, supernatural entities,
>abductions, and "hybrid children," to name just a few motifs.

I find your remark rather startling in its sweep and in the
magnitude of its allegations, Chris.

Perhaps it would move the discussion along if you would
be so kind as to give us some specific examples. Thanks.


Cordially,

Jerry Clark







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                       Re: UFOs & Fairies? - Friedman

From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul>
Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 14:11:09 -0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 16:57:14 -0500
Subject: Re: UFOs & Fairies? - Friedman


>From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 12:11:33 EST
>Subject: Re: UFOs & Fairies?

>Fairies? Little Green Men? How 'bout 'Changelings'?

<snip>

>What also got me was these fairie ring things had similar properties
>to what I saw in a Stanton Friedman lecture where he showed
>samples of UFO landing trace soil reactions to water.  Dry and
>wouldn't absorb water. I believe they were Mr. Ted Phillips' soil
>sample results.

>These stories went on for well past into the 60's. I'll bet if I
>ask the old farming families about them they'll have lots of
>data on the fairie ring stuff.

<snip>

UFO debunkers have often tried to explain away physical trace
cases as Faerie Rings. They are distinct from each other and
from Crop circles. Faerie rings involve fungi.

No fungi were found in the Delphos case that I use in my
lecture. The soil was dried out down 14" in depth and would not
absorb moisture nor support plant growth and of course a Flying
Saucer was observed just over the area where the physical trace
appeared. The ring had not been there prior to the observation
of the saucer.

In practically no case have there been saucers observed in
conjunction with the crop circles... nor with the faerie rings.

In addition, the CC are far more elaborate. Hockey pucks and
basketballs can both be described as round objects but are
hardly interchangeable.


Stan Friedman