UFO UpDates
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   Mar

                          UFO UpDates Mailing List
                                  Mar 2004

  Mar 1:

   Re: The Illuminati - Boone - Greg Boone [52]
   Re: Filer's Files #10-2004 - Stanford - Ray Stanford [16]
   Re: Whittlesea-Beveridge Photo - Golubic - Vic Golubic [7]
   Re: The Rosetta Disk By The Long Now Foundation - - Larry Hatch [10]
   Re: UFOs & Fairies? - McCoy - GT McCoy [21]
   Rumors Of Mars Water Announcement - Larry Hatch [14]
   Re: UFOs & Fairies? - Shough - Martin Shough [35]
   Mars Water Evidence Mounts Scientists Tight-Lipped - Frank Warren [157]
   Drake Illuminates Audience On ET Possibilities - Frank Warren [62]
   Re: Filer's Files #10-2004 - Shell - Tim Shell [12]

  Mar 2:

   Mystery Of Circle In The Sky - UFO UpDates - Toronto [45]
   Re: The Rosetta Disk By The Long Now Foundation - - Terry Groff [8]
   Re: Filer's Files #10-2004 - Stanford - Ray Stanford [14]
   Re: Tracing The Flow Of The Gulf Breeze Money - - Kenny Young [36]
   Re: Rumors Of Mars Water Announcement - McCoy - GT McCoy [4]
   Re: The Illuminati - - Robert Gates [79]
   Hey I Made A Boo-Boo! - Greg Boone [58]
   JPL: What To Expect - Mac Tonnies [5]
   Re: JPL: What To Expect - Shell - Tim Shell [22]
   Re: JPL: What To Expect - Kaeser - Steven Kaeser [5]
   Re: Mystery Of Circle In The Sky - Curtis - Ray Curtis [8]
   Re: The Illuminati - Warren - Frank Warren [16]
   NASA To Release Significant Mars Findings - Frank Warren [43]
   India Lands 'UFO' In Pak, Creates Panic - Frank Warren [37]
   Re: Tracing The Flow Of The Gulf Breeze Money - - Bruce Maccabee [33]
   Secrecy News -- 03/02/04 - Steven Aftergood [143]
   Re: JPL: What To Expect - Stanford - Ray Stanford [11]
   Intense UFO Activity Amid Venezuelan Political - Scott Corrales [78]
   Re: Mystery Of Circle In The Sky - Stanford - Ray Stanford [11]
   JPL/NASA's Ho Hum Conference - Chaz Stuart [9]
   Re: Mystery Of Circle In The Sky - Bright - Dan Bright [12]
   Re: What To Expect - Stanford - Ray Stanford [9]

  Mar 3:

   Re: Filer's Files #10-2004 - LeClair - Aaron LeClair [4]
   Re: Tracing The Flow Of The Gulf Breeze Money - - Katharina Wilson [64]
   Re: JPL/NASA's Ho Hum Conference - Shell - Tim Shell [4]
   New NASA Evidence For Water On Mars - Ray Stanford [6]
   Re: JPL/NASA's Ho Hum Conference - Stanford - Ray Stanford [16]
   Re: JPL: What To Expect - Tonnies - Mac Tonnies [8]
   Re: JPL/NASA's Ho Hum Conference - Tonnies - Mac Tonnies [8]
   Re: Mystery Of Circle In The Sky - Stedman - Gary Stedman [16]
   Re: UFOs & Fairies? - Pope - Nick Pope [31]
   Re: UFOs & Fairies? - Pope - Nick Pope [22]
   Re: The Illuminati - Maccabee - Bruce Maccabee [2]
   Re: Hey I Made A Boo-Boo! - Maccabee - Bruce Maccabee [6]
   CI: JPL: What to Expect And The Aftermath - Mac Tonnies [64]
   Cartnic Effect - Barry Taylor [56]
   Re: Tracing The Flow Of The Gulf Breeze Money - - Aaron LeClair [63]
   Re: The Illuminati - Friedman - Stanton Friedman [15]
   Re: racing The Flow Of The Gulf Breeze Money - - Stanton Friedman [7]
   Re: The Illuminati - Stanford - Ray Stanford [59]
   Re: JPL/NASA's Ho Hum Conference - Lehmberg - Alfred Lehmberg [26]
   Re: Filer's Files #10-2004 - Shell - Tim Shell [4]
   Mystery Over Red Planet Was A Wet Planet - Frank Warren [75]
   Fighter Pilot Revealed As Lord Of The Ring - Frank Warren [33]
   Bush & Cheney Did In Martians - Frank Warren [42]
   NASA - Time For A Change - Al Baier [32]
   Pilot's Acrobatics Captured On Film - Frank Warren [36]
   Re: JPL/NASA's Ho Hum Conference - Kaeser - Steven Kaeser [6]
   Re: The Illuminati - Kaeser - Steven Kaeser [7]
   Re: UFOs & Fairies? - Clark - Jerome Clark [38]
   Re: Cartnic Effect - Connors - Wendy Connors [19]
   Another Pilot Sighting Report Plus - Brian Vike - HBCC UFO [45]
   Re: JPL/NASA's Ho Hum Conference - Fleming - Lan Fleming [9]
   Re: Identfy Friend Or Foe? - Dickenson - Ray Dickenson [23]
   Magaha/Friedman Debate Tape? - Alfred Lehmberg [13]
   Re: Filer's Files #10-2004 - Stanford - Ray Stanford [5]
   NASA-JPL May Have Cooked Their Own Goose! - Ray Stanford [73]
   Bigfoot Makes Appearance In Levittown - Louise A. Lowry [97]
   UFO ROUNDUP Volume 9 Number 9 - John Hayes [425]
   Re: The Illuminati - Warren - Frank Warren [30]
   Montell Williams Show With Sylvia Brown - Terry Groff [23]
   Re: The Illuminati - Warren - Frank Warren [5]
   Re: NASA - Time For A Change - Lehmberg - Alfred Lehmberg [27]
   Re: NASA - Time For A Change - Stanford - Ray Stanford [12]
   Re: Bush & Cheney Did In Martians - Lehmberg - Alfred Lehmberg [14]

  Mar 4:

   Re: NASA-JPL May Have Cooked Their Own Goose! - - Tim Shell [3]
   Re: JPL/NASA's Ho Hum Conference - Stanford - Ray Stanford [10]
   Re: Montell Williams Show With Sylvia Brown - Lowry - Louise A. Lowry
   [11]
   Re: The Illuminati - Stanford - Ray Stanford [8]
   Re: The Illuminati - White - Eleanor White [5]
   Re: NASA-JPL May Have Cooked Their Own Goose! - - Joe McGonagle [15]
   Re: The Illuminati - Stanford - Ray Stanford [8]
   Re: Magaha/Friedman Debate Tape? - Friedman - Stanton Friedman [11]
   Re: Bigfoot Makes Appearance In Levittown - LeClair - Aaron LeClair [8]
   Re: Identfy Friend Or Foe? - LeClair - Aaron LeClair [8]
   Martian Cocktail - UFO UpDates - Toronto [42]
   Filer's Files #11-2004 - George A. Filer [555]
   Re: Filer's Files #10-2004 - Goldstein - Josh Goldstein [22]
   UFOs 'The Little Red Hen' & Disney - Greg Boone [91]
   Re: Filer's Files #10-2004 - LeClair - Aaron LeClair [5]
   Re: The Illuminati - Stanford - Ray Stanford [10]
   Re: Tracing The Flow Of The Gulf Breeze Money - - Kenny Young [10]
   Re: The Illuminati - Gates - Robert Gates [23]
   PRG Press Release - X-Conference - March 2, 2004 - Stephen Bassett [65]
   Re: Cartnic Effect - LeClair - Aaron LeClair [13]
   PRG Update - March 4, 2004 - Stephen Bassett [117]
   Re: Montell Williams Show With Sylvia Brown - Myers - Royce J. Myers
   III [8]
   UFO History: Depressing But Instructive - Richard Hall [13]
   1966-67 UFO Sighting Wave Study - Richard Hall [15]
   Martian 'Ski Slope'? - Colin Stevenson [9]
   Bookies Stop Taking Bets on Life on Mars - Steve Wilson Snr. [18]
   New Phoenix LIghts Book - Josh Crockett [32]
   Re: NASA-JPL May Have Cooked Their Own Goose! - - Ray Stanford [19]
   Re: Tracing The Flow Of The Gulf Breeze Money - - Steven Kaeser [17]
   Re: UFOs 'The Little Red Hen' & Disney - Lehmberg - Alfred Lehmberg
   [15]
   Re: The Illuminati - Boone - Greg Boone [50]
   Re: NASA-JPL May Have Cooked Their Own Goose! - - Ray Stanford [24]
   Re: UFOs 'The Little Red Hen' & Disney - Boone - Greg Boone [25]
   Re: Martian 'Ski Slope'? - Shell - Tim Shell [4]
   Re: NASA-JPL May Have Cooked Their Own Goose! - - Tim Shell [10]
   Re: The Illuminati - Warren - Frank Warren [18]
   Re: The Illuminati - Warren - Frank Warren [18]
   Re: The Illuminati - Warren - Frank Warren [6]
   Re: The Illuminati - Miller - Stuart Miller [17]
   Re: The Illuminati - Warren - Frank Warren [5]
   Re: Martian Cocktail - Balaskas - Nick Balaskas [17]
   Re: Bigfoot Makes Appearance In Levittown - Lowry - Louise A. Lowry
   [17]
   Re: The Illuminati - Kaeser - Steven Kaeser [31]
   Re: JPL/NASA's Ho Hum Conference - Anderson - Paul Anderson [16]
   Re: NASA-JPL May Have Cooked Their Own Goose! - - Paul Anderson [43]
   Secrecy News -- 03/04/04 - Steven Aftergood [100]
   Castlegar/Nelson British Columbia - Brian Vike - HBCC UFO [121]
   Re: Martian 'Ski Slope'? - Stevenson - Colin Stevenson [9]
   Southern Ohio More Sightings & Rumours - Kenny Young [36]
   Re: 1966-67 UFO Sighting Wave Study - Pope - Nick Pope [23]

  Mar 5:

   Re: Bigfoot Makes Appearance In Levittown - LeClair - Aaron LeClair [7]
   Re: NASA-JPL May Have Cooked Their Own Goose! - - Ray Stanford [26]
   Re: The Illuminati - White - Eleanor White [16]
   Re: The Illuminati - Gehrman - Ed Gehrman [20]
   Re: The Illuminati - Stanford - Ray Stanford [12]
   2002 Story About A Russian UFO Incident - Gre Boone [6]
   Re: New Phoenix Lights Book - Stockstill - Bill Stockstill [11]
   Re: 1966-67 UFO Sighting Wave Study - Hall - Richard Hall [12]
   Re: New Phoenix LIghts Book - Maccabee - Bruce Maccabee [34]
   Re: NASA-JPL May Have Cooked Their Own Goose! - - Paul Anderson [10]
   Pyramids And Extraterrestrials - Greg Boone [32]
   Mars Rovers Update - Chaz Stuart [26]
   Re: Filer's Files #10-2004 - McCoy - GT McCoy [13]
   Re: Tracing The Flow Of The Gulf Breeze Money - - Robert Gates [21]
   Barry Chamish Site - Barry Chamish [5]
   Re: JPL/NASA's Ho Hum Conference - Fleming - Lan Fleming [20]
   Re: The Illuminati - Warren - Frank Warren [44]
   Re: The Illuminati - Lehmberg - Alfred Lehmberg [13]
   Re: New Virus Threat - Kaeser - Steven Kaeser [12]
   Re: The Illuminati - Warren - Frank Warren [10]
   UFO Conference In Eureka Springs - Frank Warren [12]
   Re: The Illuminati - Friedman - Stanton Friedman [12]
   Re: The Illuminati - Friedman - Stanton Friedman [6]
   Re: Pyramids And Extraterrestrials - Sandow - Greg Sandow [18]
   Re: NASA-JPL May Have Cooked Their Own Goose! - - Tim Shell [4]
   Re: UFO Conference In Eureka Springs - Groff - Terry Groff [13]
   Re: Pyramids And Extraterrestrials - Shell - Tim Shell [14]
   Re: Barry Chamish Site - Hall - Richard Hall [14]
   Re: UFO Conference In Eureka Springs - Hall - Richard Hall [7]
   Re: Barry Chamish Site - Lehmberg - Alfred Lehmberg [13]
   Re: NASA-JPL May Have Cooked Their Own Goose! - - Lan Fleming [27]
   Re: 1966-67 UFO Sighting Wave Study - Pope - Nick Pope [16]
   Abductees And Medication? - Greg Boone [9]
   Re: The Illuminati - Stanford - Ray Stanford [8]
   Re: NASA-JPL May Have Cooked Their Own Goose! - - Tim Shell [2]
   Re: The Illuminati - Boone - Greg Boone [50]
   Re: The Illuminati - Maccabee - Bruce Maccabee [5]
   Re: UFOs & Fairies? - Aubeck - Chris Aubeck [126]
   Re: Depressing But Instructive - Harney - John Harney [40]
   Stanton Friedman's URL? - Aaron LeClair [4]
   Re: Barry Chamish Site - Balaskas - Nick Balaskas [23]
   Re: New Phoenix Lights Book - Frola - Robert Frola [4]
   CI: "Bunny" Probably Lander Debris - Mac Tonnies [16]
   Mercury Or Venus? - Brendon Andrews [7]
   Re: 1966-67 UFO Sighting Wave Study - Isaac Koi [93]
   Good Hunting - Greg Boone [45]
   Re: Barry Chamish Site - Sandow - Greg Sandow [40]

  Mar 6:

   Re: CI: "Bunny" Probably Lander Debris - Shell - Tim Shell [4]
   Re: New Phoenix Lights Book - Crockett - Josh Crockett [3]
   Ramey AFB Sighting? - Jim Speiser [5]
   Re: Good Hunting - Jones - Sean Jones [8]
   Re: New Phoenix Lights Book - Stockstill - Bill Stockstill [2]
   Re: Barry Chamish Site - Williams - Walt Williams [15]
   UK UFO Magazine Closes - Philip Mantle [25]
   Re: Identfy Friend Or Foe? - Dickenson - Ray Dickenson [44]
   Re: 1966-67 UFO Sighting Wave Study - Pope - Nick Pope [51]
   Re: Barry Chamish Site - Hall - Richard Hall [13]
   Re: Depressing But Instructive - Clark - Jerome Clark [4]

  Mar 7:

   Re: Depressing But Instructive - Golubic - Victor Golubic [67]
   Re: UFOs & Fairies? - Rudiak - David Rudiak [16]
   Re: Abductees And Medication? - Rudiak - [23]
   Re: "Bunny" Probably Lander Debris - Balaskas - Nick Balaskas [23]
   Re: Abductees And Medication? - Holloway - Karin Hoppe Holloway [11]
   NASA Deluged By Civilians' Mars 'Discoveries' - Frank Warren [128]
   CI: A Martian 'Centipede'? - Mac Tonnies [22]
   Sasquatch Speaks: The Truth Is Out There - Loren Coleman [48]
   Re: Barry Chamish Site - Chamish - Barry Chamish [4]
   Re: Good Hunting - Boone - Greg Boone [6]
   Re: Depressing But Instructive - Hall - Richard Hall [33]
   Meier Believer Fails To Prove His Claim - UFO UpDates - Toronto [63]
   Re: Identfy Friend Or Foe? - Freeman - Kelly Freeman [28]
   Re: Ramey AFB Sighting? - Hatch - Larry Hatch [6]
   Re: Depressing But Instructive - Harney - John Harney [31]
   Unusual UFO Picture from St Louis - Roy Hale [7]

  Mar 8:

   Re: UFOs & Fairies? - LeClair - Aaron LeClair [6]
   Re: Depressing But Instructive - Dickenson - Ray Dickenson [25]
   Canadian Subscribers? - Barry Taylor [14]
   Re: Identfy Friend Or Foe? - LeClair - Aaron LeClair [6]
   Re: NASA Deluged By Civilians' Mars 'Discoveries' - Aaron LeClair [7]
   Re: CI: A Martian 'Centipede'? - LeClair - Aaron LeClair [7]
   An Anomalous SETI Signal - Walt Williams [26]
   Re: "Bunny" Probably Lander Debris - Maccabee - Bruce Maccabee [11]
   Re: 1966-67 UFO Sighting Wave Study - Maccabee - Bruce Maccabee [27]
   Press Release - Paradigm Research Group - March 8, - Steven Bassett
   [86]
   Hayward California Sighting Taped - Brian Vike - HBCC UFO [89]
   Re: UFOs & Fairies? - Aubeck - chris aubeck [29]
   Re: Depressing But Instructive - Hall - Richard Hall [35]
   Re: CI: A Martian 'Centipede'? - Stanford - Ray Stanford [44]
   Helen Birdsall On UFO MAGAZINE UK - Helen Birdsall [24]
   Re: Unusual UFO Picture From St Louis - Warren - Frank Warren [5]
   Re: UFOs & Fairies? - Warren - Frank Warren [6]
   Re: Apollo 16 Film - Oberg - James Oberg [16]
   Alien Beings Affect Some - Frank Warren [116]

  Mar 9:

   Did UFO Bring Down Beagle? - Terry Groff [23]
   Re: Ramey AFB Sighting? - Speiser - Jim Speiser [5]
   Re: Sleep Paralysis - Speiser - Jim Speiser [33]
   Re: Identfy Friend Or Foe? - Peterborough - Kelly Peterborough [28]
   Re: Unusual UFO Picture From St Louis - Balaskas - Nick Balaskas [30]
   Artist's Impression Of The Mars Bunny - [14]
   Re: Identfy Friend Or Foe? - Dickenson - Ray Dickenson [9]
   Re: Apollo 16 Film - Balaskas - Nick Balaskas [42]

  Mar 10:

   Sleep Paralysis - Woolf - Maurice Woolf [20]
   Re: An Anomalous SETI Signal - Shell - Tim Shell [3]
   Re: Did UFO Bring Down Beagle? - Balaskas - Nick Balaskas [23]
   Secrecy News -- 03/09/04 - Steven Aftergood [124]
   Friedman Pummels McGaha In Debate - Frank Warren [29]
   Re: NASA Deluged By Civilians' Mars 'Discoveries' - Ray Stanford [7]
   Re: UFOs & Fairies? - Dickenson - Ray Dickenson [12]
   Hoagland's Fossil Theory - Chaz Stuart [6]
   Re: Did UFO Bring Down Beagle? - LeClair - Aaron LeClair [2]
   Re: Artist's Impression Of The Mars Bunny - LeClair - Aaron LeClair [2]
   MJ-12 & Rocky Mountain Flats - Huff - Robert J Huff [19]
   Re: Sleep Paralysis - Stanford - Ray Stanford [10]
   Decker Lake British Columbia - Brian Vike - HBCC UFO [51]
   Re: Hayward California Sighting Taped - Seguin - Trevor Seguin [8]
   CCCRN News: XRD Study of Canadian Crop Formation - Paul Anderson [102]
   CI: New Perspectives On The 'Centipede' - Mac Tonnies [50]
   Re: UK UFO Magazine Closes - Mantle - Philip Mantle [13]
   Re: An Anomalous SETI Signal - Hatch - Larry Hatch [7]
   Re: UFOs & Fairies? - Kaeser - Steven Kaeser [12]
   Re: Friedman Pummels McGaha In Debate - Lehmberg - Alfred Lehmberg [31]
   Secrecy News -- 03/10/04 - Steven Aftergood [102]
   Re: Sleep Paralysis - Shell - Tim Shell [27]
   Kids Thrilled By Close Encounter - UFO UpDates - Toronto [43]
   Re: Sleep Paralysis - Woolf - Maurice Woolf [20]
   Re: Did UFO Bring Down Beagle? - Groff - Terry Groff [10]
   Re: Hoagland's Fossil Theory - Stanford - Ray Stanford [22]
   Re: UFOs & Fairies? - Dickenson - Ray Dickenson [26]
   UFO Magazine Folds After Editor's Death - UFO UpDates - Toronto [29]
   Filer's Files #12 - 2004 - George A. Filer [495]

  Mar 11:

   Re: Depressing But Instructive - Harney - John Harney [36]
   Re: Did UFO Bring Down Beagle? - Balaskas - Nick Balaskas [37]
   Re: Kids Thrilled By Close Encounter - Boone - Greg Boone [5]
   CIA Refuses To Talk Turkey - Larry W. Bryant [51]
   Re: Sleep Paralysis - Seguin - Trevor Seguin [31]
   Re: UFO Magazine Folds After Editor's Death - - Joe McGonagle [24]
   UFO Magazine UK - A. J. Gevaerd - Revista UFO [57]
   Re: Did UFO Bring Down Beagle? - Groff - Terry Groff [11]
   Re: Hoagland's Fossil Theory - Balaskas - Nick Balaskas [25]

  Mar 12:

   50001 Messages Archived Since Dec 1996 - John W. Auchettl [11]
   UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 9 Number 10 - John Hayes [308]
   Secrecy News -- 03/11/04 - Steven Aftergood [105]
   JPL's Mars UFO - Don Ledger [7]
   CI: Do Martians Listen to Compact Discs? - Mac Tonnies [8]
   BLT Research Team Web Site Hacked? - Paul Anderson [14]
   Re: UFOs & Fairies? - Seguin - Trevor Seguin [31]
   Update On BLT Web Site Problem And XRD Study - Paul Anderson [65]
   Re: Hoagland's Fossil Theory - Stanford - Ray Stanford [66]
   Re: UFO Magazine Folds After Editor's Death - Hale - Roy Hale [23]

  Mar 13:

   Re: UFO Magazine UK - Harrison - Diane Harrison [46]
   Re: JPL's Mars UFO - Lehmberg - Alfred Lehmberg [18]
   Re: BLT Research Team Web Site Hacked? - Lehmberg - Alfred Lehmberg
   [10]
   Re: CI: Do Martians Listen to Compact Discs? - - Tim Shell [6]
   Re: JPL's Mars UFO - Shell - Tim Shell [3]
   Re: UFO Magazine Folds After Editor's Death - - Steven Kaeser [6]
   We Need To Talk 'Intelligence' - Greg Boone [54]
   Re: UFO Magazine Folds After Editor's Death - - Joe McGonagle [37]
   Re: Barry Chamish Site - Sandow - Greg Sandow [9]
   Seeking Life as We Know It - UFO UpDates - Toronto [255]
   Re: UFOs & Fairies? - Dickenson - Ray Dickenson [24]
   Re: UFOs & Fairies? - Kaeser - Steven Kaeser [31]
   Re: JPL's Mars UFO - White - Eleanor White [6]
   NASA News Briefing On Unusual Solar Object - UFO UpDates - Toronto [29]
   Martian Lego Blocks And Toblerones - Colin Stevenson [7]
   Astronomer Seeks Life Beyond Earth - Frank Warren [80]
   Re: UFO Magazine Folds After Editor's Death - - Stuart Miller [6]
   Re: NASA News Briefing On Unusual Solar Object - - Ray Stanford [9]
   Re: We Need To Talk 'Intelligence' - Hatch - Larry Hatch [6]
   Re: JPL's Mars UFO - Balaskas - Nick Balaskas [41]
   Re: NASA News Briefing On Unusual Solar Object - - Nick Balaskas [36]
   Re: UFO Magazine Folds After Editor's Death - - Joe McGonagle [18]
   Re: Apollo 16 Film - Fleming - Lan Fleming [8]

  Mar 14:

   Re: UFOs & Fairies? - Bright - Dan Bright [17]
   Re: UFO Magazine Folds After Editor's Death - Burns - Max Burns [14]
   Re: Depressing But Instructive - Maccabee - Bruce Maccabee [12]
   Re: JPL's Mars UFO - Fleming - Lan Fleming [8]
   Re: We Need To Talk 'Intelligence' - Lemire - Todd Lemire [33]
   Re: UFO Magazine Folds After Editor's Death - - Joe McGonagle [9]
   Muncaster Castle Paranormal Conference - Philip Mantle [125]
   Re: UFO Magazine Folds After Editor's Death - Hale - Roy Hale [15]
   No More 'Pelican' Discussion - UFO UpDates - Toronto [8]
   Re: JPL's Mars UFO - Ledger - Don Ledger [7]
   Re: We Need To Talk 'Intelligence' - Ledger - Don Ledger [12]
   FBI Shows Little In The Show-Me State - Larry W. Bryant [32]
   Re: JPL's Mars UFO - Stanford - Ray Stanford [8]
   Re: We Need To Talk 'Intelligence' - Freeman - Kelly Freeman [24]
   Re: NASA News Briefing On Unusual Solar Object - - John Hayes [44]
   Re: FBI Shows Little In The Show-Me State - Young - Kenny Young [31]
   Re: JPL's Mars UFO - Fleming - Lan Fleming [11]
   Re: UFO Magazine Folds After Editor's Death - - From: Joe McGonagle
   [35]
   Re: We Need To Talk 'Intelligence'- Friedman - Stanton Friedman [7]
   What Is The Skies Around Decker Lake? - Brian Vike - HBCC UFO [96]

  Mar 15:

   UFO Spies Vanish Into Black Hole - Terry W. Colvin [52]
   Re: We Need To Talk 'Intelligence' - Ledger - Don Ledger [14]
   Re: We Need To Talk 'Intelligence' - Boone - Greg Boone [30]
   Re: We Need To Talk 'Intelligence' - Boone - Greg Boone [24]

  Mar 16:

   Re: UFO Spies Vanish Into Black Hole - Lehmberg - Alfred Lehmberg [40]
   Re: UFO Spies Vanish Into Black Hole - Clark - Jerome Clark [40]
   Re: We Need To Talk 'Intelligence' - Ray Dickenson [7]
   Out There - Brian Vike - HBCC UFO [289]
   South Korea Suffers 'Alien Vengeance' - UFO UpDates - Toronto [14]
   Astronomers Discover Mysterious Planet-Like Body - UFO UpDates -
   Toronto [82]
   War Of The Words - UFO UpDates - Toronto [243]
   Re: Tracing The Flow Of The Gulf Breeze Money - - Jerry Black [49]
   Re: Tracing the Flow of the Gulf Breeze Money - - Jerry Black [25]
   Re: Tracing the Flow of the Gulf Breeze Money - - Jerry Black [29]
   Re: JPL's Mars UFO - Balaskas - Nick Balaskas [31]
   ACUFOS News March 2004 - Sheryl Gottschall [4]
   Report On 'UFOs & Fairies/Legends/Supernatural - Ray Dickenson [117]
   Re: UFO Spies Vanish Into Black Hole - Connors - Wendy Connors [40]
   Re: UFO Spies Vanish Into Black Hole - Flemming - Lan Fleming [11]
   Re: UFO Spies Vanish Into Black Hole - Burns - Max Burns [21]
   Re: Tracing The Flow Of The Gulf Breeze Money - - Wendy Connors [5]
   Re: UFO Spies Vanish Into Black Hole - Friedman - Stanton Friedman [22]
   Mars Landers? - James Smith [7]
   New Zealander First To Explain UFOs - UFO UpDates - Toronto [71]
   'The Truth' According To Greer - UFO UpDates - Toronto [70]
   Re: UFO Magazine Folds After Editor's Death - Hale - Roy Hale [14]

  Mar 17:

   Re: Tracing the Flow of the Gulf Breeze Money - - Stanton Friedman [13]
   Re: Tracing The Flow Of The Gulf Breeze Money - - Terry Groff [7]
   Re: Tracing The Flow Of The Gulf Breeze Money - - Alfred Lehmberg [29]
   Re: JPL's Mars UFO - Groff - Terry Groff [7]
   UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 9 Number 11 - John Hayes [337]
   Re: UFO Spies Vanish Into Black Hole - Kaeser - Steven Kaeser [37]
   Re: JPL's Mars UFO - Anderson - Paul Anderson [20]
   Re: Tracing the Flow of the Gulf Breeze Money - - Jerome Clark [20]
   Re: UFO Spies Vanish Into Black Hole - Warren - Frank Warren [38]
   Re: JPL's Mars UFO - Balaskas - Nick Balaskas [13]
   Re: JPL's Mars UFO - Stanford - Ray Stanford [53]
   Clumps In Saturn's Rings Giant UFOs? - Nick Balaskas [21]
   Re: JPL's Mars UFO - Ledger - Don Ledger [4]
   Re: JPL's Mars UFO - Ledger - Don Ledger [3]
   Who's Out There? - Frank Warren [280]
   Re: Tracing the Flow of the Gulf Breeze Money - - Robert Gates [67]
   Re: 'The Truth' According To Greer - Connors - Wendy Connors [12]
   Re: JPL's Mars UFO - Ledger - Don Ledger [6]
   Re: UFO Spies Vanish Into Black Hole - Ledger - Don Ledger [11]
   Re: 'The Truth' According To Greer - McCoy - GT McCoy [35]
   Re: Tracing The Flow Of The Gulf Breeze Money - - Bruce Maccabee [161]
   Re: Tracing the Flow of the Gulf Breeze Money - - Bruce Maccabee [40]
   Re: Tracing the Flow of the Gulf Breeze Money - - Bruce Maccabee [20]
   Re: 'The Truth' According To Greer - Gates - Robert Gates [37]
   Re: New Zealander First To Explain UFOs - Brock - Rod Brock [69]
   Re: UFO Spies Vanish Into Black Hole - Clark - Jerome Clark [43]
   Re: UFO Magazine Folds After Editor's Death - - Joe McGonagle [50]
   Re: 'The Truth' According To Greer - Hall - Richard Hall [19]
   Re: Tracing The Flow Of The Gulf Breeze Money - - Richard Hall [3]
   Re: UFO Spies Vanish Into Black Hole - Pope - Nick Pope [39]
   Re: UFO Spies Vanish Into Black Hole - Warren - Frank Warren [43]
   Dr. Norman Bergrun - Bruce Hutchinson [39]
   Re: New Zealander First To Explain UFOs - Maccabee - Bruce Maccabee [8]
   Re: Clumps In Saturn's Rings Giant UFOs? - Hand - William Hand [5]
   Aztec UFO Fest Opens Friday - Frank Warren [78]
   A Movie Musical About Ufos And Aliens! - Chris Rutkowski [71]

  Mar 18:

   More Strange Sightings This Time In The Air - UFO UpDates - Toronto
   [106]
   Re: 'The Truth' According To Greer - Clark - Jerome Clark [3]
   Re: JPL's Mars UFO - Anderson - Paul Anderson [6]
   Re: 'The Truth' According To Greer - Stanford - Ray Stanford [23]
   Re: 'The Truth' According To Greer - Ledger - Don Ledger [5]
   Re: UFO Magazine UK - Gevaerd - A. J. Gevaerd - Revista UFO [28]
   Scientist Creates Roswell UFO Metal - Crockett - Josh Crockett [34]
   Re: 'The Truth' According To Greer - Boone - Greg Boone [2]
   Re: A Movie Musical About Ufos And Aliens! - Boone - Greg Boone [3]
   'The Mythologist' AKA Armen Victorian/Henry - Joe McGonagle [11]
   Re: New Zealander First To Explain UFOs - Stanford - Ray Stanford [12]
   New? Report Of 1947 6-7 Disc-Shaped Objects - Brian Vike - HBCC UFO
   [37]
   Filers Files #13 - 2004 - George A. Filer [555]
   No Flow Of Gulf Breeze Money - Robert Gates [53]
   Re: UFO Magazine Folds After Editor's Death - Hale - Roy Hale [24]
   Re: A Movie Musical About Ufos And Aliens! - Hatch - Larry Hatch [19]
   Re: Aztec UFO Fest Opens Friday - Hatch - Larry Hatch [5]
   Re: Tracing The Flow Of The Gulf Breeze Money - - Joachim Koch [43]
   Saint Elmo's Fire Pictures? - Elena Canziani [9]
   Zygmunt Adamski? - Chris Zielinski [7]
   Near-Earth Asteroid Record-Breaking Approach - Scott Caput [12]
   Re: 'The Truth' According To Greer - Connors - Wendy Connors [22]
   Re: New Zealander First To Explain UFOs - Shell - Tim Shell [12]
   Re: 'The Truth' According To Greer - Shell - Tim Shell [2]
   Police Quiz Hawking Over Abuse - Frank Warren [45]
   Re: A Movie Musical About UFOs And Aliens! - Shell - Tim Shell [12]
   Spielberg & Cruise 'War of The Worlds' - Frank Warren [32]
   Re: JPL's Mars UFO - Ledger - Don Ledger [9]
   Re: No Flow Of Gulf Breeze Money - Clark - Jerome Clark [7]
   Proposed Journal Of UFO History - Richard Hall [6]
   Re: Filers Files #13 - 2004 - Smith - James Smith [30]
   Re: JPL's Mars UFO - Stevenson - Colin Stevenson [17]

  Mar 19:

   UFOs And Fairies/Legends/Supernatural - Pt. I - Terry W. Colvin [455]
   UFOs And Fairies/Legends/Supernatural - Pt. II - Terry W. Colvin [481]
   Re: 'The Truth' According To Greer - Stevenson - Colin Stevenson [9]
   Re: No Flow Of Gulf Breeze Money - Kaeser - Steven Kaeser [4]
   Re: More Strange Sightings This Time In The Air - - Ron Decker [18]
   Re: A Movie Musical About UFOs And Aliens! - McCoy - GT McCoy [4]
   Re: JPL's Mars UFO - Shell - Tim Shell [2]
   Re: JPL's Mars UFO - Balaskas - Nick Balaskas [9]
   Re: UFO Magazine Folds After Editor's Death - - John Rimmer [21]
   Re: Spielberg & Cruise 'War of The Worlds' - Sandow - Greg Sandow [8]
   Re: JPL's Mars UFO - Anderson - Paul Anderson [10]
   NUFORC: Brooksville Forida 03-118-04 - Peter Davenport - NUFORC [65]
   Mars Rover Spots UFO - UFO UpDates - Toronto [21]
   Re: 'The Truth' According To Greer - Hatch - Larry Hatch [19]
   Re: 'The Mythologist' AKA Armen Victorian/Henry - Bruce Maccabee [48]
   Evidence Of Life On Mars - Ray Stanford [37]
   Re: Aztec UFO Fest Opens Friday - Stanford - Ray Stanford [14]
   Mars UFO Crops Up On BBC - Ray Stanford [20]
   Re: Near-Earth Asteroid Record-Breaking Approach - - Nick Balaskas [28]
   Re: 'The Mythologist' AKA Armen Victorian/Henry - Nick Pope [12]
   BBC - UFO Streaks Through Martian Sky - Frank Warren [35]
   Mystery Train Thought To Contain UFO Parts - Kenny Young [49]
   Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices? - Barry Taylor [7]
   Jerry Black To Polygraph Bruce Maccabee - Kenny Young [12]
   Hats Off To George Noory! - Greg Boone [59]
   Deb Jordan & Crop Formation - Aaron LeClair [4]
   Re: Scientist Creates Roswell UFO Metal - Hatch - Larry Hatch [34]
   Re: 'The Truth' According To Greer - Shell - Tim Shell [11]
   Re: Spielberg & Cruise 'War of The Worlds' - Clark - Jerome Clark [12]
   Re: UFOs And Fairies/Legends/Supernatural - Pt. I - Luis R. Gonzalez
   [28]
   Re: NUFORC: Brooksville Forida 03-118-04 - Young - Kenny Young [91]
   Re: 'The Mythologist' AKA Armen Victorian/Henry - Max Burns [11]
   JPL's Mars UFO - Shell - Tim Shell [15]
   PhotoShop-ped Mars UFO Showing Oscillation - Tim Shell [10]
   Re: Jerry Black To Polygraph Bruce Maccabee - - Bruce Maccabee [3]
   Re: 'The Truth' According To Greer - Aldrich - Jan Aldrich [9]
   The Ten Most Wanted Government Documents - Lary W. Bryant [80]
   Re: Jerry Black To Polygraph Bruce Maccabee - - Alfred Lehmberg [17]
   Re: Evidence Of Life On Mars - Ledger - Don Ledger [9]
   Rover Cracks Mystery Of Mars Spheres - UFO UpDates - Toronto [53]
   Re: Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices? - - Bruce Maccabee [24]
   Re: Spielberg & Cruise 'War of The Worlds' - Sandow - Greg Sandow [18]
   Re: Mars UFO Crops Up On BBC - Ledger - Don Ledger [15]
   Re: UFO Magazine Folds After Editor's Death - Hale - Roy Hale [16]
   Re: Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices? - - Stuart Miller [18]
   Re: Hats Off To George Noory! - Myers - Royce J. Myers III [10]
   Re: Spielberg & Cruise 'War of The Worlds' - Pope - Nick Pope [30]
   Re: Jerry Black To Polygraph Bruce Maccabee - Clark - Jerome Clark [3]
   Re: 'The Mythologist' AKA Armen Victorian/Henry - Aaron LeClair [3]

  Mar 20:

   Mystery Lights Changed Doc's Life - UFO UpDates - Toronto [54]
   Re: Zygmunt Adamski? - Pope - Nick Pope [13]
   Re: Jerry Black To Polygraph Bruce Maccabee - - Alfred Lehmberg [14]
   Re: Jerry Black To Polygraph Bruce Maccabee - Groff - Terry Groff [5]
   Re: Evidence Of Life On Mars - Stanford - Ray Stanford [4]
   Re: Jerry Black To Polygraph Bruce Maccabee - - John Rimmer [12]
   Re: Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices? - Boone - Greg Boone [31]
   Re: Jerry Black To Polygraph Bruce Maccabee - Hall - Richard Hall [5]
   Polar Orbiters? - Eleanor White [5]
   Re: Scientist Creates Roswell UFO Metal - Stevenson - Colon Stevenson
   [10]
   Re: 'The Mythologist' AKA Armen Victorian/Henry - Nick Pope [27]
   Re: 'The Truth' According To Greer - Stevenson - Colin Stevenson [19]
   Re: Hats Off To George Noory! - Boone - Greg Boone [14]
   Re: UFO Magazine Folds After Editor's Death - - Joe McGonagle [35]
   FSR Archive CD Review - Joe McGonagle [13]
   Re: 'The Truth' According To Greer - Stevenson - Colin Stevenson [20]
   Brampton Ontario - 2 Round/Circular Objects - Brian Vike - HBCC UFO
   [35]
   Re: Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices? - - Jim Speiser [2]
   Re: Mars UFO Crops Up On BBC - Stanford - Ray Stanford [75]
   Re: Jerry Black To Polygraph Bruce Maccabee - - Brenda Denzler [148]
   Re: Jerry Black To Polygraph Bruce Maccabee - Frola - Robert Frola [7]
   Re: Spielberg & Cruise 'War of The Worlds' - Ledger - Don Ledger [11]
   Re: Jerry Black To Polygraph Bruce Maccabee - McCoy - GT McCoy [6]
   Re: JPL's Mars UFO - LeClair - Aaron LeClair [4]
   FidoNet - Armen Victorian & Aviary - Terry W. Colvin [239]
   Re: 'The Truth' According To Greer - Hatch - Larry Hatch [3]
   A Steven Greer Response - UFO UpDates - Toronto [59]
   Re: More Strange Sightings This Time In The Air - - Larry Hatch [29]
   Re: Hats Off To George Noory! - Hatch - Larry Hatch [23]
   Re: 'The Truth' According To Greer - Hatch - Larry Hatch [19]
   Re: Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices? - Hatch - Larry Hatch [4]
   Re: Jerry Black To Polygraph Bruce Maccabee - Hatch - Larry Hatch [30]
   Re: 'The Mythologist' AKA Armen Victorian/Henry - Bruce Maccabee [4]
   Re: Evidence Of Life On Mars - Maccabee - Bruce Maccabee [3]
   Re: Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices? - - Bruce Maccabee [4]
   Re: Jerry Black To Polygraph Bruce Maccabee - Young - Kenny Young [21]
   Re: A Steven Greer Response - Hatch - Larry Hatch [18]
   Re: 'The Truth' According To Greer - Stevenson - Colin Stevenson [8]
   Re: Jerry Black To Polygraph Bruce Maccabee - - Gildas Bourdais [10]
   Re: JPL's Mars UFO - Ledger - Don Ledger [4]
   Re: Jerry Black To Polygraph Bruce Maccabee - - Alfred Lehmberg [14]
   Aliens out there? Please Come To The Rescue - Frank Warren [82]
   Re: Jerry Black To Polygraph Bruce Maccabee - Clark - Jerome Clark [10]
   Re: Evidence Of Life On Mars - Ledger - Don Ledger [10]
   Re: UFO Magazine Folds After Editor's Death - - John Rimmer [5]
   Re: Hats Off To George Noory! - Myers - Royce J. Myers III [12]

  Mar 21:

   Condon Report's Roy F. Craig Dies - UFO UpDates - Toronto [90]
   Re: UFO Magazine Folds After Editor's Death - Burns - Max Burns [16]
   Re: 'The Truth' According To Greer - Stevenson - Colin Stevenson [15]
   Re: Jerry Black To Polygraph Bruce Maccabee - - John Harney [25]
   Re: Jerry Black To Polygraph Bruce Maccabee - Young - Kenny Young [7]
   Re: Jerry Black To Polygraph Bruce Maccabee - Hatch - Larry Hatch [8]
   Re: UFO Magazine Folds After Editor's Death - Hale - Roy Hale [18]
   Re: Jerry Black To Polygraph Bruce Maccabee - - Bruce Maccabee [32]
   Re: Jerry Black To Polygraph Bruce Maccabee - - Edward Gehrman [61]
   Re: 'The Truth' According To Greer - Stanford - Ray Stanford [69]

  Mar 22:

   Intruders Foundation Mortellaro Case Statement - Larry W. Bryant [42]

  Mar 21:

   Re: Jerry Black To Polygraph Bruce Maccabee - - Jim Speiser [12]
   Re: Jerry Black To Polygraph Bruce Maccabee - - Aaron P. LeClair [2]
   Re: Jerry Black To Polygraph Bruce Maccabee - Gates - Robert Gates [14]
   Re: A Steven Greer Response - Gates - Robert Gates [25]
   Re: 'The Mythologist' AKA Armen Victorian/Henry - Nick Pope [9]
   Re: UFOs And Fairies/Legends/Supernatural - Pt. I - Chris Aubeck [82]
   OZARK UFO Conference April 9-11 - Frank Warren [9]
   Re: Jerry Black To Polygraph Bruce Maccabee - - Kelly Freeman [6]
   Ozzy - Friend Of Little Green Men - Frank Warren [15]

  Mar 22:

   Selected NRO Documents On Reconnaissance Satellites - Larry W. Bryant
   [78]
   Re: Hats Off To George Noory! - Hatch - Larry Hatch [12]
   The Friedman/McGaha Debate - The Day CSICOP Died! - Alfred Lehmberg
   [289]
   Re: Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices? - - Barry Taylor [46]
   Re: Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices? - - Barry Taylor [60]
   Re: Scientist Creates Roswell UFO Metal - Friedman - Stanton Friedman
   [10]
   UFO*BC Updates 03-21-04 - David Pengilly [34]
   Ottawa Onatrio Fireball - Brian Vike - HBCC UFO [29]
   Saskatoon Saskatchewan - 03-21-04 - Brian Vike - HBCC UFO [40]
   Press Release - Paradigm Research Group - - Stephen Bassett [62]
   Re: Aliens out there? Please Come To The Rescue - - Aaron P. LeClair
   [17]
   Chupacabras Exsanguinates Hens In San Ramon Costa - Scott Corrales [59]
   Wrexham UK Science Festival - Chris Parr [19]
   Argentine Monte Maiz Phantom - Scott Corrales [101]
   Re: Jerry Black To Polygraph Bruce Maccabee - Young - Kenny Young [18]
   Re: Jerry Black To Polygraph Bruce Maccabee - Clark - Jerome Clark [3]
   Is The UFO Truth In Aztec? - Frank Warren [75]
   Tycoon Funds Hunt For Alien Life - UFO UpDates - Toronto [30]

  Mar 23:

   Re: Jerry Black To Polygraph Bruce Maccabee - - Gildas Bourdais [3]
   Re: Jerry Black To Polygraph Bruce Maccabee - - Steven Kaeser [36]
   UFO over the River Plate Argentina - Scott Corrales [26]
   Jerry Black's Reply To Conners & Clark - Jerry Black [14]
   Re: Tycoon Funds Hunt For Alien Life - Hall - Richard Hall [3]
   A Velez Farewell - John Velez [96]
   Re: UFO Magazine Folds After Editor's Death - - Joe McGonagle [22]
   Re: Scientist Creates Roswell UFO Metal - Friedman - Stanton Friedman
   [2]
   Re: Aliens out there? Please Come To The Rescue - - Stanton Friedman
   [11]
   Colourful Meteor Startles Prairie Watchers - Frank Warren [29]
   Re: Ottawa Onatrio Fireball - Peterborough - Kelly Peterborough [14]
   Re: Jerry Black To Polygraph Bruce Maccabee - - Bruce Maccabee [7]
   Recent Reports To HBCC UFO - 03-22-04 - Brian Vike - HBCC UFO [147]
   Quebec - Rue de la Montagne - Brian Vike - HBCC UFO [32]
   Re: Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices? - - Bruce Maccabee [30]
   UFO Over Buenos Aires Argentina - Cott Corrales [14]

  Mar 24:

   Ciel de St-Remi Quebec - HBCC UFO [25]
   Astronomers Ecstatic Over Space Visitor - Frank Warren [109]
   NASA About To Announce? - Max Burns [7]
   UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 9 Number 12 - John Hayes [244]
   Re: Brampton Ontario - 2 Round/Circular Objects - - Nick Balaskas [35]
   North Gower Ottawa Ontario - Brian Vike - HBCC UFO [48]
   Report Of 7 UFOs In V-Formation - Barry Taylor [9]
   FOIA Pay Dirt From FBI - Larry W. Bryant [132]
   UFO Investigator & ISU Alumnus Dead - Terry Groff [64]
   A Lineup In The Sky Planets Put On A Show - Frank Warren [48]
   Expert Confirms Meteor In Sunday's Sky - Frank Warren [38]
   Re: Tycoon Funds Hunt For Alien Life - Warren - Frank Warren [4]
   Re: Jerry Black's Reply To Conners & Clark - Clark - Jerome Clark [12]
   Re: Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices? - - Don Ledger [27]
   Re: A Velez Farewell - McCoy - GT McCoy [4]
   Re: A Velez Farewell - Hamilton - Bill Hamilton [11]
   Ufologist "Fridge Magnet Is Alien Artefact" - Chris Parr [24]

  Mar 25:

   Re: UFO Investigator & ISU Alumnus Dead - Warren - Frank Warren [26]
   Filers Files #13 - 2004 - George A. Filer [499]
   Re: Tycoon Funds Hunt For Alien Life - Davenport - Peter B. Davenport -
   NUFORC [30]
   Re: Jerry Black To Polygraph Bruce Maccabee - Hatch - Larry Hatch [7]
   Ironwood Michigan UFO - Terry Groff [16]
   UFOs & Fairies/Legends/Supernatural - Ray Dickenson [20]
   UFO News March 2004 (Australia) - Sheryl Gottschall [113]
   Re: Ufologist "Fridge Magnet Is Alien Artefact" - Walt Williams [7]
   "One Day Getaway" Could Take You Out Of This World - UFO UpDates -
   Toronto [32]
   Re: Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices? - - Bruce Maccabee [41]
   Re: UFO Investigator & ISU Alumnus Dead - Maccabee - Bruce Maccabee [4]
   Alien Encounters In Canada - Brian Vike - HBCC UFO [431]
   Re: Sasquatch Speaks: The Truth Is Out There - - Neil Olsen [29]
   European Parliament UFO Question - Nick Pope [54]
   Re: Filers Files #13 - 2004 - Hatch - Larry Hatch [6]
   Re: Tycoon Funds Hunt For Alien Life - Hall - Richard Hall [9]
   Re: Jerry Black's Reply To Conners & Clark - - Alfred Lehmberg [19]
   Re: Tycoon Funds Hunt For Alien Life - Warren - Frank Warren [12]

  Mar 26:

   Are We Alone? - Frank Warren [63]
   Re: UFO Investigator & ISU Alumnus Dead - Warren - Frank Warren [46]
   Mars Mission Finds Evidence Of Hospitable Sea - Frank Warren [75]
   Re: Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices? - McCoy - GT McCoy [21]
   Re: Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices? - - Bill Hamilton [9]
   Secrecy News -- 03/25/04 - Steven Aftergood [218]
   Re: Aliens out there? Please Come To The Rescue - - Colin Stevenson [7]
   DIA Dances Around The FOIA Maypole - Larry W. Bryant [117]
   New South Wales UFO Hotline Reports - Diane Harrison [112]
   Re: Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices? - - Bruce Hutchinson [32]
   Re: Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices? - - Barry Taylor [23]
   Re: Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices? - - Barry Taylor [58]
   Spectacular Fireball Likely A Meteor - Frank Warren [52]
   Cushing Library Acquires Roy Craig Collection - Frank Warren [23]
   Re: Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices? - - Bill Hamilton [4]

  Mar 27:

   Re: Aliens out there? Please Come To The Rescue - - Tim Shell [20]
   The Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices - Stuart Miller [75]
   Secrecy News - 03/26/04 - Steven Aftergood [132]
   UFO Experts On UK Radio - Nick Pope [19]
   Re: The Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices - - Mike Fortson [16]
   Re: Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices? - - Bruce Maccabee [3]
   Re: Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices? - - Bruce Maccabee [10]
   7th Anniversary Of Heaven's Gate - Greg Boone [4]
   Re: Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices? - - Bruce Maccabee [13]
   Re: Spectacular Fireball Likely A Meteor - Heath - Gord Heath [15]
   Re: Spectacular Fireball Likely a Meteor - Heath - Gord Heath [5]
   Re: DIA Dances Around The FOIA Maypole - Freeman - Kelly Freeman
   <Khfflsciufo@cs.com< [11]
   A Sky Spectacle That's Out Of This World - Frank Warren [23]
   Radio Search For ET Draws A Blank - Joe McGonagle [9]
   Re: Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices? - Hatch - Larry Hatch [19]
   Re: Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices? - - Alfred Lehmberg [30]
   European Voice UFO Article - Nick Pope [171]
   Methane Find On Mars May Be Sign Of Life - Dan Bright [60]
   Re: Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices? - - Bill Hamilton [15]
   Re: The Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices - - Bill Hamilton [6]
   Re: Phoenix Lights - Kelly - Jim Kelly [11]

  Mar 28:

   Re: Methane Find On Mars May Be Sign Of Life - Hall - Richard Hall [3]
   Re: The Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices - - Jim Kelly [28]
   Re: Phoenix Lights - Ledger - Don Ledger [16]
   Re: Are We Alone? - LeClair - Aaron LeClair [54]
   Re: Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices? - - Jim Speiser [21]
   "Fridge Magnet Is Alien Artefact" Episode 2 - Chris Parr [23]
   Re: Radio Search For ET Draws A Blank - White - Eleanor White [16]
   Canada's V-2 Launch Site - Future Attraction For - Nick Balaskas [37]
   Re: The Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices - - Jim Speiser [9]
   Re: Methane Find On Mars May Be Sign Of Life - - Nick Balaskas [25]
   1947 At Roswell, Corona And Other Places - Loren Coleman [62]
   Cincinnati UFO Reported To Wright Patterson AFB - Kenny Young [87]
   Re: The Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices - - Bruce Maccabee [23]
   Re: The Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices - - Bruce Maccabee [5]
   Re: Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices? - - Bruce Maccabee [9]
   Re: Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices? - - Bruce Maccabee [14]
   Re: DIA Dances Around The FOIA Maypole - Bryant - Larry W. Bryant [5]
   CIA Stonewalls Release of Declassification - Larry W. Bryant [68]
   Re: The Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices - - Kelly Freeman [25]
   Re: The Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices - - Bill Hamilton [7]
   Re: European Voice UFO Article - Maccabee - Bruce Maccabee [3]
   Re: Methane Find On Mars May Be Sign Of Life - - Don Ledger [4]
   Re: Phoenix Lights - Speiser - Jim Speiser [9]
   J. Allen Hynek? - Stephen G. Bassett [6]
   Re: Re: The Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices - Don Ledger [8]

  Mar 29:

   Re: Radio Search For ET Draws A Blank - Hatch - Larry Hatch [15]
   Re: The Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices - - Kelly Freeman [16]
   Canadian Prime Minister And UFOs? - Chris Rutkowski [113]
   Re: Phoenix Lights - Hamilton - Bill Hamilton [8]
   Re: The Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices - - Bill Hamilton [5]
   Re: Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices? - - Bill Hamilton [10]
   Re: The Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices - - Bill Hamilton [11]
   Re: The Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices - - Bill Hamilton [6]
   Prime Minister's Plane Has Close Encounter With - Terry Groff [49]
   2 Daylight Discs Over Calgary Alberta - Brian Vike - HBCC UFO [22]
   Re: 1947 At Roswell, Corona And Other Places - - Stanton Friedman [30]
   Re: The Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices - - Jim Kelly [15]
   BBC 'Methane Poses Mars Life Puzzle' - Paul Anderson [4]
   Re: 1947 At Roswell, Corona And Other Places - - Gildas Bourdais [48]
   Re: Methane Find On Mars May Be Sign Of Life - - Josh Goldstein [22]
   Strange Formations in Nuevo Leon Mexico - Scott Corrales [23]
   Prime Minister's Plane Has Close Encounter With - Frank Warren [51]
   Scoop Marks And Bruising In Sonora California - Brian Vike - HBCC UFO
   [64]
   Making Noise Over The Hum - Frank Warren [143]
   Private Spacecraft Could Launch This Summer - Frank Warren [45]
   Re: UFO Magazine Folds After Editor's Death - Hale - Roy Hale [17]
   Another Scoop Mark & El Paso Experience - Brian Vike HBCC UFO [98]
   Re: Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices? - - Bruce Maccabee [14]
   Re: The Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices - - Don Ledger [31]
   Notorious Reed UFO Fraud Re-Surfaces - Royce J. Myers III [6]
   Re: 1947 At Roswell, Corona And Other Places - - Greg Sandow [10]
   Re: The Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices - - Bill Hamilton [24]
   Re: BBC 'Methane Poses Mars Life Puzzle' - Bright - Dan Bright [20]
   Commerece California Spring 1996 - Brian Vike - HBCC UFO [41]

  Mar 30:

   UFO History Journal To Proceed - Richard Hall [12]
   Re: BBC 'Methane Poses Mars Life Puzzle' - Hatch - Larry Hatch [30]
   Re: Notorious Reed UFO Fraud Re-Surfaces - Hatch - Larry Hatch [14]
   Re: Methane Find On Mars May Be Sign Of Life - - [4]
   Re: Radio Search For ET Draws A Blank - Goldstein - Josh Goldstein [89]
   Theology Sees ET Life As Compatible with God - Scott Corrales [47]
   Havoc In The Heavens - Frank Warren [166]
   Re: BBC 'Methane Poses Mars Life Puzzle' - Stanford - Ray Stanford [14]
   Re: Radio Search For ET Draws A Blank - Dickenson - Ray Dickenson [24]
   Secrecy News - 03/30/04 - Steven Aftergood [141]
   UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 9 Number 13 - John Hayes [304]
   Why I Support Alien Abduction Study - Nick Pope [39]

  Mar 31:

   Radio Show Airs Alien Encounters - Frank Warren [112]
   Caution Pravda 'Story'! UFO Fragments Yield - Frank Warren [89]
   Abductees Share Stories - UFO UpDates - Toronto [98]
   16th Annual Ozark UFO Conference - Frank Warren [10]
   Filers Files #15 - George A. Filer [531]
   Re: Polar Orbiters? - Smith - James Smith [63]
   Irish International UFO Conference - UFO UpDates - Toronto [8]
   Re: The Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices - - Kelly Freeman [13]

   The number enclosed in brackets is the number of lines of new text in





   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   Mar > Mar 1

                         Re: The Illuminati - Boone

From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 13:34:22 EST
Fwd Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 14:44:12 -0500
Subject: Re: The Illuminati - Boone


>From: Robert Gates <RGates8254.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 23:37:22 EST
>Subject: Re: The Illuminati

>>From: Eleanor White <eleanor.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 16:09:59 -0500
>>Subject: Re: The Illuminati

>>>From: Robert Gates <RGates8254.nul>
>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 01:29:50 EST
>>>Subject: Re: The Illuminati

>><snip>

>>>>don't have either the first hand knowledge or the time to
>>>>debate this, I'm just passing on what I hear all day every day
>>>>from the shortwave shows.

>>>Alot of what is on shortwave radio is drival at best, so extreme
>>>care should be used when repeating it.

>>The shows I listen to usually cite their references, and urge
>>listeners to "not believe them [hosts]" but check the sources. I
>>would say that by far the greater drivel is heard from
>>mainstream sources, who often ignore real issues and fill your
>>TV screen, radio speaker, or printed pages with frivolous
>>nonsense. Many of the _opinions_ expressed on shortwave I don't
>>buy, but the considerable amount of cited evidence is more than
>>worth the time to listen.

>>The internal bombs planted in the Oklahoma City federal building
>>were one example of issues that never make it to mainstream
>>outlets.

>One point worth mentioning and its applies to UFOs and other
>unusual events. So often we hear reports of events (say UFO or
>otherwise) they are promptly debunked and discredited say like
>Roswell and you find out later that there really was something
>more too it.

>In the OKC bombing we were told after a monumentous govt
>investigation that Timothy McVeigh and a crony were
>responsible... end of story. Never mind eyewitness testimony to
>the FBI that other partys were seen leaving the area, never mind
>connection to White Supremecy groups were made blah blah blah.

>Now we have the main FBI agent (now retired) who was responsible
>for the investigation saying that the investigation was bogus
>and if he would have been in the same position he would have re-
>opened the investigation etc., etc. Apparently it appears that
>Timothy "Oswald" McVeigh had co-conspirators

>So the next time we hear some skeptibunker say "Well Project
>Bluebook said....." we know, as we have always known, that it
>may not be accurate, nor evidence may have been overlooked, or
>ignored.


Thank you Robert and of course you too Ms. White!

Robert glad you saw through all that OK City Bombing charade.

That's one of the reasons why I brought up the subject of
illuminati in the first place. I sat here laughing at the first
volley of negative responses just to see how stimulus-response
some people can be. Myself included!

I work in animation. We're also in a huge fight handling this
Disney/Michael Eisner debacle. It took Roy Disney and some of
our guys to literally fight from the ground floor up but we've
made waves! Miraculous, but again as soon as the revolt was
engaged there were those 'naysayers'. We'll see March 3rd on
that one.

I brought that up because often we'll hear or read something and
immediately lip-off that the originator is 'bringing down the
standards' or 'nuts' or 'seeking attention', etc. Yet here we
are on a UFO list!

I have a saying: " Everything is a crazy idea until it makes
money. "

On to these 'illuminati'. I've run into references and
confessions from reliable people and I had to look further into
it because it's all under the UFO issue. It's under and all over
tons of other issues too from health care to pet breeding! What
I had to come to grips with is there isn't just ONE illuminati
but numerous illuminati of various sizes and influence. There
are old timers like the Masons and their branches and religious,
political groups. Not all in agreement with one another and
often in opposition. The kicker here is how every branch of not
only our government but foreign governments and social
institutions are infiltrated and influenced by these people.

The dangerous ones are the ones who oppose change for the
better. As stated there isn't just one overall group but some
are so interwoven with one another they give off the apparency.
Some are old. Older than the term illuminati itself.

What we should be on the lookout for are those groups that are
using religion, politics, to control and arrest the growth of
creativity and science.

These are the real bad guys. It's like they're on some sort of
bizarre long term agenda for humanity to keep us in the dark and
at each other's throats. They get into government and louse it
up. They get into a religious institution and goof that up. They
get into ladies baking club and all the souffles fall. Y'see?
Some people get a leg up on knowledge and the first thing they
do is try to capitalize on it and beat down their fellow man.

Prime indicator of this low-brow behavior is the attack.
Especially of one's character or viewpoints.

Well that's what I've got to say. Next rant will be on how
dangerous our Legislative branch of government has become and
what we need to do to put a reign on our lawmakers.

Hint: I think that's where we'll all find the real reason behind
the UFO secrecy. Big time. :)


Best,

Greg









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                    Re: Filer's Files #10-2004 - Stanford

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 14:23:48 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 14:45:34 -0500
Subject: Re: Filer's Files #10-2004 - Stanford


>From: George A. Filer Majorstar.nul
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 20:25:36 -0500
>Subject: Filer's Files #10-2004

>http://www.nationalufocenter.com/news/printable.php?id=170ℑ=on

I went there, read that, saw the images, and nearly split my
sides laughing at the ludicrous claim. George has discovered no
such thing (evidence of life on Mars, 'intelligent' or
otherwise), but some readers might have discovered just how
subjective and wide-eyed someone can be just looking at a
natural rock. But, I suppose a person like George Filer who
promotes the silly photos George Ritter takes and pretends show
UFOs, is likely to read anything he wishes into the most prosaic
of situations.

"Proof of ET on Mars E Rock"! I've seen some 'caca de toro' on
this list at times, but, by George, this takes the cake! :)

Gotta run and rescue my wife. She's laughing so hysterically (at
the claim) that I'm afraid she might roll down the stairs.


Ray Stanford

"You know my method. It is founded upon the observance of
trifles." -- Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery








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   Mar > Mar 1

                  Re: Whittlesea-Beveridge Photo - Golubic

From: Vic Golubic <Peetkin.nul>
Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 16:24:28 EST
Fwd Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 14:48:48 -0500
Subject: Re: Whittlesea-Beveridge Photo - Golubic


>From: Tom DeMary <t.demary.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 01:32:59 -0600
>Subject: Re: Whittlesea-Beveridge Photo

<snip>

>This will not work properly, because the lens is altered by the
>macro adjustment and focused at 9.5 inches, instead of infinity.
>I don't think you can assume that the focal length is still 18mm
>when the camera is macro mode.

Agreed, I'm not sure what the mag nification ratio is for the
macro mode setting nor it's 35 mm focal length (telephoto lens)
camera equivalent. It can vary quite a bit with traditional
camera lens attachments. Not sure how the macro mode is
accomplished in this design either.


Vic Golubic








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              Re: The Rosetta Disk By The Long Now Foundation -

From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 14:30:46 -0800
Fwd Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 14:49:44 -0500
Subject: Re: The Rosetta Disk By The Long Now Foundation -


>From: Terry Groff <terry.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 17:37:19 -0600
>Subject: Re: The Rosetta Disk By The Long Now Foundation

>>From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 17:10:54 -0400
>>Subject: Re: The Rosetta Disk By The Long Now Foundation

>>>From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 09:29:05 -0600
>>>Subject: Re: The Rosetta Disk By The Long Now Foundation

> <snip>

>>I think a far better reason for the SETI Specialists not to have
>>picked up signals is that they are assuming very primitive ETI
>>technology. We have known about radio for about 100 years and
>>for Lasers for roughly half that.

>>Just down the street there are sunlike stars a billion years
>>older than the sun. Dr. Barry Downing's work "The Bible and
>>Flying Saucers" takes sightings back at least a couple of
>>thousand years before now. And they are stuck with technology at
>>our level? Mind boggling for its stupidity. One can see why I
>>prefer the label of SETI cultists.

>>As someone pointed out to me, digital radio is booming . But
>>aren't we looking for analog radio?

>OSETI is looking in the optional range and most other SETI
>projects are looking for analog signals.

>One could reason that any signal that might be picked up could
>have been broadcast tens of thousands of years ago, perhaps
>longer. It may very well be that their civilization was at a
>more 'primitive's stage in their technological evolution at that
>time. If their civilization has survived all this time, they
>could be some of the ones visiting us now.

>I'm all for any kind of study whose aim is to detect ETI
>anywhere in this universe, whether it's on Melmac or here on
>Earth.


Hello Stan, Terry ..


I don't know what is actually being monitored, or how, or how
well. I would _hope_ that they are looking for any signal that
stands above the background noise of natural phenomena, analog
digital or whatever, given the limitations of our existing
technology, funding etc.

What would be far worse, would be for nobody to look or listen
at all.


Best wishes

- Larry








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   Mar > Mar 1

                         Re: UFOs & Fairies? - McCoy

From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy.nul>
Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 22:03:21 -0800
Fwd Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 14:51:27 -0500
Subject: Re: UFOs & Fairies? - McCoy


>From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 14:11:09 -0400
>Subject: Re: UFOs & Fairies?

>>From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 12:11:33 EST
>>Subject: Re: UFOs & Fairies?

>>Fairies? Little Green Men? How 'bout 'Changelings'?

><snip>

Well, folks here is a reference to "Green Men ":

http://www.endicott-studio.com/galgreen.html

Green People have been around for a very long time.

<snip>

>UFO debunkers have often tried to explain away physical trace
>cases as Faerie Rings. They are distinct from each other and
>from Crop circles. Faerie rings involve fungi.

Yes,Stan, the Faerie Ring is a Circle of Mushrooms. With a
Mushroom in the Center,(that's where the Fiddler sets.)

>No fungi were found in the Delphos case that I use in my
>lecture. The soil was dried out down 14" in depth and would not
>absorb moisture nor support plant growth and of course a Flying
>Saucer was observed just over the area where the physical trace
>appeared. The ring had not been there prior to the observation
>of the saucer.

>In practically no case have there been saucers observed in
>conjunction with the crop circles... nor with the faerie rings.

That's because of the needs of the Faeries. You, see, a proper
Faerie ring is due to the Faeries having too much time on their
hands, wet weather, tall grass are not good for Faerie activity.
A bored Faerie is an un-happy one, causing all sorts of trouble
and mischief.

The best remedy for the unwanted Faerie activity is the
Following: A good single malt scotch, or a good Irish wiskey,
(Canadian will do in a pinch,) Placed near but not on , the
center of the ring. if properly done, the faeries will be happy
,and the bottle will be gone -or-drained in the morning. But it
needs expert attention to be sucessful.

I would be glad to oversee any endeavor in this area-for
expenses and a specifed sum.

<snip>

GT McCoy







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   Mar > Mar 1

                      Rumors Of Mars Water Announcement

From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 01:05:26 -0800
Fwd Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 14:52:23 -0500
Subject: Rumors Of Mars Water Announcement


Hello all:

This article from Space.com mentions rumors that
JPL/NASA may make some important announcement
about water on Mars.

http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/opportunity_evidence_040229.html

Just what will be announced, who will announce it and how are
all up in the air.

Reportedly, people at JPL are abuzz with this, while both JPL
and NASA are tight lipped in the interim.

If rumors are correct, some announcement will me made early this
week, presumably Monday or Tuesday. It could be BS, but I'm
staying tuned in any case.


Best wishes

- Larry Hatch








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                        Re: UFOs & Fairies? - Shough

From: Martin Shough <mshough.nul>
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 13:33:13 -0000
Fwd Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 14:54:01 -0500
Subject: Re: UFOs & Fairies? - Shough


>From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 14:11:09 -0400
>Subject: Re: UFOs & Fairies?

>>From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 12:11:33 EST
>>Subject: Re: UFOs & Fairies?

>>What also got me was these fairie ring things had similar properties
>>to what I saw in a Stanton Friedman lecture where he showed
>>samples of UFO landing trace soil reactions to water.  Dry and
>>wouldn't absorb water. I believe they were Mr. Ted Phillips'
>>soil sample results.

><snip>

>UFO debunkers have often tried to explain away physical trace
>cases as Faerie Rings. They are distinct from each other and
>from Crop circles. Faerie rings involve fungi.

<snip>

>In practically no case have there been saucers observed in
>conjunction with the crop circles... nor with the faerie rings.

Stanton,

The term 'fairy ring' was historically used in various different
senses, not just for the fungus rings. The 18th century English
antiquary John Brand remarks that "some refer the phenomena to
the operations of electricity" and quotes Philosophical
Transactions regarding "a circle of about five yards diameter,
the rim of which was nearly a foot broad, newly burnt bare as
was evidenced by the hue and frangibility of the roots" observed
after an electrical storm. It was widely believed that such
"blasted" rings were correlated with storms. Erasmus Darwin
subscribed to some such idea, as Vallee pointed out in Magonia.

This was possibly quite a widespread folk idea not restricted to
western "natural philosophers" if we consider the Chinese names
for certain fungi according to Frank Lane (Elements Rage):
Thunder Mushroom, Thunder-peal Mushroom and, even more
explicitly, Thunder-aroused mushroom! Fungi stimulated by the
temperature/humidity conditions associated with storms? Maybe.

But it's interesting that FSR carried a series of reports from
Argentina and Brazil in 1968-69 under the heading "Mushrooms at
Alleged UFO Landing Sites". These were positively huge mushrooms
in some cases, always associated with circular rings or ellipses
of "burnt" or "blackened" grass. I seem to recall a case from
another source where "unknown fungi" were found inside a burned
circle at Tres Arroyos, Argentina in 1973, but I can't give a
reference. Maybe S.American listers could tell us more about
these cases, and if anything ever came of an examination of
monster mushrooms at the University of La Plata following the
Tandil case of November 1968?

This is highly interesting folklore, if nothing else. On the
speculative side, I wonder if the accelerated growth of
abnormally large fungi in such a case could be construed as a
botanical analogue of the accelerated local time experienced by
humans who stumbled into fairy rings? ;-)


Martin Shough








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             Mars Water Evidence Mounts Scientists Tight-Lipped

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 08:32:30 -0800
Fwd Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 14:55:25 -0500
Subject: Mars Water Evidence Mounts Scientists Tight-Lipped


Source: Space.com

http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/opportunity_evidence_040229.html

Mars: A Water World? Evidence Mounts, But Scientists Remain
Tight-Lipped

29 February 2004

PASADENA, California -- Evidence that suggests Mars was once a
water-rich world is mounting as scientists scrutinize data from
the Mars Exploration rover, Opportunity, busily at work in a
small crater at Meridiani Planum. That information may well be
leading to a biological bombshell of a finding that the red
planet has been, and could well be now, an extraterrestrial home
for life.

There is a palpable buzz here at the Jet Propulsion Laboratory
(JPL) in Pasadena, California that something wonderful is about
to happen in the exploration of Mars.

There is no doubt that the Opportunity Mars rover is relaying a
mother lode of geological data. Using an array of tools carried
by the golf cart-sized robot -- from spectrometers, a rock
grinder, cameras and powerful microscopic imager -- scientists
are carefully piecing together a compelling historical portrait
of a wet and wild world.

Where Opportunity now roves, some scientists here suggest, could
have been underneath a huge ocean or lake. But what has truly
been uncovered by the robot at Meridiani Planum is under
judicious and tight-lipped review.

Those findings and their implications are headed for a major
press conference, rumored to occur early next week -- but given
unanimity among rover scientists and agreement on how and who
should unveil the dramatic findings. Turns out, even on Mars, a
political and ego outcrop hangs over science.

Scientific bulls-eye

It is clear that Opportunity's Earth-to-Mars hole in one --
 bouncing into a small crater complete with rock outcrop -- has
also proven to be a scientific bulls-eye. The robot is wheeling
about the crater that is some 70 feet (22 meters) across and 10
feet (3 meters) deep.

It is also apparent that there is a backlog of scientific
measurements that Mars rover scientists working Opportunity have
pocketed and kept close to their lab coats.

For one, the rover found the site laden with hematite -- a
mineral that typically, but not always -- forms in the presence
of water. Then there are the puzzling spherules found in the
soil and embedded in rock. They too might be water-related, but
also could be produced by the actions of a meteor impact or a
spewing volcano.

A few spheres have been sliced in half and their insides imaged.
Patches of these spherules, or "berries" as some call them, have
undergone spectrometer exam to discern their mineral and
chemistry makeup. Close-up photos of soil and rock have also
shown thread-like features and even an oddly shaped object that
looks like Rotini pasta.

Brew of dissolved salts

There is speculation that the soil underneath the wheels of both
Spirit and Opportunity rovers contains small amounts of water
mixed with salt in a brine. That brew of dissolved salts keeps
the mixture well below the freezing point of pure water,
permitting it to exist in liquid form.

Opportunity has revisited select spots in the outcrop, drawn
there, in part, to look for cross-beds -- sedimentary deposits
that are formed in beach, river and sand-dune environments.
Using its Rock Abrasion Tool (RAT), the rover has carried out
several cleaning and grinding sessions on exposed rock outcrop.

Cross-beds are patterns of curving lines or traces found within
the strata of sandstone and other sedimentary rocks. Cross-
bedding indicates the general direction and force of the wind or
water that originally laid down the sediments.

Right around the corner

Opportunity's research is a "work in progress", said Ray
Arvidson, deputy principal investigator for the Mars Exploration
Rover (MER) project from Washington University in St. Louis.
Data is being gathered to present "a coherent story", he said
during a press briefing last Thursday.

"That story is right around the corner," Arvidson told SPACE.com
. "But we need to finish this work in progress, finish the set
of experiments, get the data down from the spacecraft, processed
and analyzed. Then I think that the story will be known," he
said.

Arvidson said multiple working hypotheses are still at play.
Water is involved, but only on some of the hypotheses. Until
coordinated experiments on the outcrop are completed, what the
right hypothesis is remains unknown, he added.

Severing the umbilical cord

Mars exploration using the rovers has allowed on-the-spot
"discovery driven science", said MER Deputy Project Scientist
Albert Haldeman. He likened the Mars robot work now underway to
deep ocean research using remotely operated submersibles.

"It turns out that the best way to explore rocks [on Mars] is go
look at craters. Mobility buys us the ability to do that. It was
the right fit for looking at rocks," Haldeman told SPACE.com .
"The discovery from the Microscopic Imager and seeing those
spherules=85and finding a larger population of spherules and
seeing them in the rocks and the outcrop=85that progression of
discovery influences our thinking."

Haldeman said the next step will be severing the umbilical cord
between Opportunity and the crater it's exploring. The robot
would wheel itself out of that site and onto the expansive
terrain of Meridiani Planum.

"That umbilical cord=85that's hard to break. It's more than even
just a tension within the science team," Haldeman said.

Tantalizing hints

Scientists are carefully analyzing the rock data gleaned by the
Opportunity rover. "We really want to understand that we've got
those figured out right," Haldeman said. Up to now they have
offered some "tantalizing hints", he said, that speak to a
possible relationship with water.

Piecing together the story of what Opportunity has found
involves great care and deliberation, Haldeman said, based on a
wide-range of viewpoints and levels of expertise. "We want to be
cautious," he explained.

More to the point, the science output from Mars must withstand
scrutiny by experts outside the rover investigation teams.

"There are lots of geologists out there who are looking at these
pictures and they are starting to drool," Haldeman said. "The
American taxpayer that spent $800 million on this deserves a
thorough analysis," Haldeman said.

Slippery slope leading to life

One scientist eagerly awaiting the news from Mars, particularly
from Opportunity, is Gilbert Levin. He is Chairman of the Board
and Executive Officer for Science of Spherix Incorporated in
Beltsville, Maryland.

Levin is a former Viking Mars lander investigator. He has long
argued that his 1976 Viking Labeled Release (LR) life detection
experiment found living microorganisms in the soil of Mars.

In 1997, Levin reported that simple laws of physics require
water to occur as a liquid on the surface of Mars. Subsequent
experiments and research have bolstered this view, he said, and
reaffirms his Viking LR data regarding microbial life on Mars.

Levin detailed his Mars views in a SPACE.com phone interview and
via email.

"It's hard to image why such bullet-proof evidence was denied
for such a long time, and why those so vigorously denying it
never did so by meeting the science, but merely by brushing it
away," Levin said.

"Of course, now that it must be acknowledged by all that there
is liquid water on the surface of Mars," Levin added, "this
starts those denying the validity of the Mars LR data down the
slippery slope leading to life."

Mars mud

Levin points to Opportunity imagery that offers conclusive proof
of standing liquid water and running water on a cold Mars.

Other images show the rover tracks clearly are being made in
"mud", with water being pressed out of that material, Levin
said. "That water promptly freezes and you can see reflecting
ice. That's clearly ice. It could be nothing else," he said,
"and the source is the water that came out of the mud."

As for the spherical objects found at the Opportunity site,
Levin has a thought.

"I wonder on Mars if it can rain upwards," he said. The idea is
that subsurface water comes up through the soils and then freezes
when it gets to the surface.

"Maybe these little spherules form just like raindrops form up
above," Levin explained.

Levin said that brine on Mars is a code word for liquid water.
He senses that great care is being taken by rover scientists
because the liquid water issue starts the road to life.

"That's the monument that they are afraid to erect without real
due process," Levin concluded.










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   Mar > Mar 1

               Drake Illuminates Audience On ET Possibilities

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 10:47:14 -0800
Fwd Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 14:59:36 -0500
Subject: Drake Illuminates Audience On ET Possibilities



Source: Wisconsin Technology Network

http://www.wistechnology.com/article.php?id=632

Alien Expert Illuminates Audience on Extraterrestrial
Possibilities

Leif Griffin, 03/01/04

MADISON - Some of extraterrestrial expert Frank Drake�s beliefs
may leave people wondering whether or not he has asteroids for
brains. Speaking to an audience of 300 at the University of
Wisconsin-Madison Feb. 19, Drake, director of the Search for
Extraterrestrial Intelligence Institute in Mountain View,
Calif., explained the reasons why he believes intelligent life
exists in the universe and highlighted potential methods of
communicating with far-off civilizations.

"I think all of us who are well-read at all, or know anything
about the universe, have at some time realized that it could
well be that there are other intelligent beings in space," Drake
said. "Many of them could be more advanced, more sophisticated
and with more of a history. It would be fascinating just to find
out what they are like."

He emphasized the importance of persistence and repetition in
the search for extraterrestrial life.

"Detecting alien life is like winning the lottery, and to win
any lottery we have to make many, many bets," Drake said.

Luckily, Drake asserted, there are also many, many solar systems
that are that are capable of incubating civilizations. Of the
estimated 400 billion stars in the Milky Way, 10 percent are
similar to our solar system and are able to support life, Drake
said. Furthermore, it is only certain that 40 billion stars are
unable to support life due to their relatively brief existence
and rapid resource exhaustion. According to Drake, the remaining
80 percent of stars in the Milky Way are smaller than our sun
but may prove just as useful in the quest for life.

"For a while scientists thought [the less massive stars] were
not suitable for life, but now it appears they too could be
abodes for life, and even perhaps better ones than the stars
that are like the sun," he said.

The potential provided by myriad life-supporting stars bodes
well for the discovery of intelligent life and Drake discussed
methods of communication required to detect extraterrestrial
activity.

"We have the means, if we work very hard, to detect intelligent
life, and get access to all of the wondrous things they can
provide us with," Drake said.

Utilizing rockets to make contact with extraterrestrial life
would be costly and a doomed venture because of the distance,
Drake said, so the best method of detecting alien civilizations
is through electromagnetic messaging. According to Drake, it is
possible to send a 60-second telegram at the speed of light to
the far side of the galaxy for only a dollar�s worth of energy.
The conventional method of powering a space shuttle to complete
the same task would take around 500,000 year�s worth of energy.

Drake also briefly discussed his famous equation, Drake�s
Equation, and its implications. Drake created the seven-factor
equation in 1951 to estimate the number of alien civilizations
in the Milky Way. Using those factors, which account for the
rate of star formation and civilization life span, Drake
estimated there are at least 10,000 such civilizations in the
Milky Way.

Phillip Morrison, emeritus professor at the Massachusetts
Institute of Technology, wrote of Drake�s Equation: "Next to
Einstein�s equation, it is the most recognized equation in
science."










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                     Re: Filer's Files #10-2004 - Shell

From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 14:02:32 -0600
Fwd Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 15:11:54 -0500
Subject: Re: Filer's Files #10-2004 - Shell


>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 14:23:48 -0500
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Subject: Re: Filer's Files #10-2004

>>From: George A. Filer Majorstar.nul
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 20:25:36 -0500
>>Subject: Filer's Files #10-2004

>>http://www.nationalufocenter.com/news/printable.php?id=170ℑ=on

>"Proof of ET on Mars E Rock"! I've seen some 'caca de toro' on
>this list at times, but, by George, this takes the cake! :)

Well, I think it just proves beyond a doubt that Martians knew
English, or some other language with that serifed "E" in it, but
they weren't very good at kerning, because there are no other
letters on either side of it. I guess they were destroyed, while
the "E" remained untouched. Lucky for us, huh? Or maybe somebody
just decided to "buy a vowel" and that's as far as they got.

I think it's tremendously fortunate that both rovers landed in
areas that are so obviously chock full of ancient ruins and
artifacts. But, then again, reviewing some of these
"discoveries," I get the feeling the whole planet is covered
with ruins and artifacts, like a giant junkyard.

Hey, maybe that's where all the rust comes from!








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   Mar > Mar 2

                        Mystery Of Circle In The Sky

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 08:48:52 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 08:48:52 -0500
Subject: Mystery Of Circle In The Sky



Source: The East Anglian Daily Times - UK

http://www.eadt.co.uk/content/news/story.asp?datetime=02+Mar+2004+07%3A17&tbrand
=EADOnline&tCategory=NEWS&category=News&brand=EADOnline&itemid=IPED01+Mar+2004+2
1%3A17%3A33%3A297

March 2, 2004 07:17


Mystery Of Circle In The Sky

By Jonathan Barnes

A MYSTERIOUS circle in the sky had East Anglians scratching
their heads last night.

The giant halo was spotted above the region from about 5.30pm
yesterday, leaving people wondering if they had just seen a UFO.

A number of readers contacted the East Anglian Daily Times to
report the sightings from towns and villages across Suffolk.

EADT designer, Chris Mills, captured the phenomenon on camera
from a spot close to Ipswich Railway Station.

�I'd just left the station when I saw a plane in the sky making
vapour trails,� he said.

�But in front of it, and seemingly much lower in the sky, was a
perfectly round cloud - like a halo above the area around the
Ipswich Town stadium.

�I had a camera with me, so I took a picture of it. It's either
one for the X Files or means the Blues can do no wrong.�

Jim Keating, from Fornham St Martin, spotted the giant halo
while driving in Bury St Edmunds at about 6pm.

�It was like a vapour trail, but a complete circle and must have
been about 20 to 30 metres across. I don't know what it was -
 I've never seen anything like it before,� he said.

Dale Scott also spotted the mysterious ring from his home in
Framsden, near Framlingham, and took a couple of pictures on his
digital camera.

�It was very strange, like a massive smoke ring in the sky. I've
got no idea what it was,� he said.

There was speculation whether the halos were rings around the
moon, caused by refraction of moonlight from ice crystals in the
atmosphere.

Neither EADT weatherman, Ken Blowers, or Roy Gooding, from the
Orwell Astronomical Society, could shed any light on the
mystery. The National Air Traffic Services could not help
either.

But a meteorological officer at Wattisham Airfield said the halo
had probably been caused by an aircraft.

�It was a condensation trail that formed an exact circle, which
was visible before sunset. We don't think it was a crystal cloud
around the sun or the moon,� he added.

�We don't think it was anything extra special - it was probably
an aircraft having a jolly.�

jonathan.barnes.nul








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              Re: The Rosetta Disk By The Long Now Foundation -

From: Terry Groff <terry.nul>
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 14:44:22 -0600
Fwd Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 08:53:43 -0500
Subject: Re: The Rosetta Disk By The Long Now Foundation -


>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 14:30:46 -0800
>Subject: Re: The Rosetta Disk By The Long Now Foundation

>>From: Terry Groff <terry.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 17:37:19 -0600
>>Subject: Re: The Rosetta Disk By The Long Now Foundation

>>>From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul>
>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 17:10:54 -0400
>>>Subject: Re: The Rosetta Disk By The Long Now Foundation

>>>I think a far better reason for the SETI Specialists not to have
>>>picked up signals is that they are assuming very primitive ETI
>>>technology. We have known about radio for about 100 years and
>>>for Lasers for roughly half that.

>>>As someone pointed out to me, digital radio is booming . But
>>>aren't we looking for analog radio?

>>OSETI is looking in the optional range and most other SETI
>>projects are looking for analog signals.

>>One could reason that any signal that might be picked up could
>>have been broadcast tens of thousands of years ago, perhaps
>>longer. It may very well be that their civilization was at a
>>more 'primitive's stage in their technological evolution at that
>>time. If their civilization has survived all this time, they
>>could be some of the ones visiting us now.

>>I'm all for any kind of study whose aim is to detect ETI
>>anywhere in this universe, whether it's on Melmac or here on
>>Earth.

>I don't know what is actually being monitored, or how, or how
>well. I would _hope_ that they are looking for any signal that
>stands above the background noise of natural phenomena, analog
>digital or whatever, given the limitations of our existing
>technology, funding etc.

>What would be far worse, would be for nobody to look or listen
>at all.

Hi Larry,

If you want to read how the SETI.nul project works, go to:

http://setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/about_seti/about_seti_at_home_1.html

It will go in to detail about what types of signals are being
sought and frequency ranges explored.


In my original reply, it should have read "OSETI is looking
in the optical range".

Terry








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                    Re: Filer's Files #10-2004 - Stanford

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 16:37:33 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 08:55:39 -0500
Subject: Re: Filer's Files #10-2004 - Stanford


>From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 14:02:32 -0600
>Subject: Re: Filer's Files #10-2004

>>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>>Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 14:23:48 -0500
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Subject: Re: Filer's Files #10-2004

>>>From: George A. Filer Majorstar.nul
>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 20:25:36 -0500
>>>Subject: Filer's Files #10-2004

>>>http://www.nationalufocenter.com/news/printable.php?id=170ℑ=on

>>"Proof of ET on Mars E Rock"! I've seen some 'caca de toro' on
>>this list at times, but, by George, this takes the cake! :)

>Well, I think it just proves beyond a doubt that Martians knew
>English, or some other language with that serifed "E" in it, but
>they weren't very good at kerning, because there are no other
>letters on either side of it. I guess they were destroyed, while
>the "E" remained untouched. Lucky for us, huh? Or maybe somebody
>just decided to "buy a vowel" and that's as far as they got.

>I think it's tremendously fortunate that both rovers landed in
>areas that are so obviously chock full of ancient ruins and
>artifacts. But, then again, reviewing some of these
>"discoveries," I get the feeling the whole planet is covered
>with ruins and artifacts, like a giant junkyard.

>Hey, maybe that's where all the rust comes from!

Right-on, Tim! Sharp observer. Did you notice that old 1940 Ford
hubcap laying off to the side over there? Heck, someone might
taken that to be a landed UFO!

After reading Filer's earth-shaking announcement, I got to
looking really closely and think there might be an old, faded
Viagra box back in the distance, discarded by some Martian. I
suspect you can read it if you squint real hard. Always wondered
who robbed our local drug store, and why.

Some of those spammers ought to broadcast their spam the
Martians, heck if those guys had to have Antonio Villas-Boas
service their lassie, they must need all the help they can get.
:)


Ray Stanford

Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known."
 - Carl Sagan








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               Re: Tracing The Flow Of The Gulf Breeze Money -

From: Kenny Young <ufo.nul>
Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 19:19:58 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 09:01:31 -0500
Subject: Re: Tracing The Flow Of The Gulf Breeze Money -


>From: Robert Gates <RGates8254.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 00:40:06 EST
>Subject: Re: Tracing The Flow Of The Gulf Breeze Money

>Quite honestly I am still waiting for the evidence of these
>allegations and all I have heard is stories and tales. At this
>point Ed Walters pictures are more credible then tales and
>allegations about MUFON and Bruce M.

You have got to be kidding. How can anyone realistically look at
the hokey Ed Walters pictures, knowing the history of Ed
Walters' photo trickery, the Hyzer photo analysis which shoots
down this case as doube-exposing frauds and all the reported
'money issues' from the beginning... how could any rational
observer not think that this current remark about the photos
having more credibility than contrary information refuting this
case is a zany comment?

I am to be faulted for having no more tolerance for this tired
issue. Jerry Black is right when he says this case is an
embarrassment to the UFO subject. This Ed Walters case is a sham
and I think most of the people on this List know it. It is my
concern that the chief promoter, Dr. Bruce Maccabee, knows full
well this case is a sham in spite of his defense of the case,
and he has promoted and played off of this hoax for many years
now, to his benefit. I also have a deep suspicion that many
folks on this List may be tuned in to that concern, but heavens
forbid if something like that is raised in discussion. Why,
you'd be accused of a negative attack or attempting to "impute
dishonesty." Give me a break. This whole Gulf Breeze case is a
sleaze-pit of hocus-pocus. To avoid discussion because it might
'impute dishonesty' reeks of ulterior motivations, folks, and is
not what true inquiry is all about.

Dr. Maccabee has responded to things on this List before, mostly
trying to resort to an attempted technical discussion with
fogged non-specifics, and I understand why he wants the issue to
be dropped and to "let's move on, please." I would want to get
away from all that too if I were in those shoes.

Sorry to be blowing my steam here, Robert, I don't mean to be
taking it out on you but I am discouraged with this thing called
Ufology right now, disgusted with the sorry caliber of
space-nuts drawn to this subject and the snake-oil salesmen who
'rule the roost' as elder statesmen in this field. Darn it all
I'm burnt out on this whole thing and just don't know where to
go from here.


Kenny Young








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                Re: Rumors Of Mars Water Announcement - McCoy

From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy.nul>
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 21:43:02 -0800
Fwd Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 09:07:09 -0500
Subject: Re: Rumors Of Mars Water Announcement - McCoy


>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 01:05:26 -0800
>Subject: Rumors Of Mars Water Announcement

>Hello all:

>This article from Space.com mentions rumors that
>JPL/NASA may make some important announcement
>about water on Mars.

>http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/opportunity_evidence_040229.html

>Just what will be announced, who will announce it and how are
>all up in the air.

>Reportedly, people at JPL are abuzz with this, while both JPL
>and NASA are tight lipped in the interim.

>If rumors are correct, some announcement will me made early this
>week, presumably Monday or Tuesday. It could be BS, but I'm
>staying tuned in any case.

Hello, all. Larry.

Heard it on Fox,Cnn. this is a big deal. I only hope that
Heinlien is looking Down on all this.


GT McCoy








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                            Re: The Illuminati -

From: Robert Gates <RGates8254.nul>
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 02:12:13 EST
Fwd Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 09:09:22 -0500
Subject: Re: The Illuminati -


>From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
>Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 13:34:22 EST
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Subject: Re: The Illuminati

>>From: Robert Gates <RGates8254.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 23:37:22 EST
>>Subject: Re: The Illuminati

<snip>

>Thank you Robert and of course you too Ms. White!

>Robert glad you saw through all that OK City Bombing charade.

Greg,

A brief clarification of my OKC paragraph. I should have been
clear that people/persons in the FBI apparently destroyed
evidence, did not provide evidence to those investigating that
hideous crime, and or did not provide documentation as requested
by the courts.

Bottom line on that is can things be covered up in/by people
working for the government. Yes you bet. Imagine the reaction in
1997 if somebody would have stated that the FBI destroyed
evidence or did not provide evidence etc etc. The person making
the accusation would have been denounced as a nut seeking
attention... and we have been told how people who believe in
such conspiracys were nut cases. Yet 7 years later.....

>That's one of the reasons why I brought up the subject of
>illuminati in the first place. I sat here laughing at the first
>volley of negative responses just to see how stimulus-response
>some people can be. Myself included!

In essence its the same response somebody gets by skeptics when
they say they have seen a UFO at close range. Now whats
interesting is if a witness told a story to a skeptic about
seeing a meteor going through the sky etc etc, the skeptics
never quite seem to react the way they do when the person says
"I saw a UFO..."  Hmm, the word two faced and double standard
come to mind.

>I work in animation. We're also in a huge fight handling this
>Disney/Michael Eisner debacle. It took Roy Disney and some of
>our guys to literally fight from the ground floor up but we've
>made waves! Miraculous, but again as soon as the revolt was
>engaged there were those 'naysayers'. We'll see March 3rd on
>that one.

Good luck on that one.

>I brought that up because often we'll hear or read something and
>immediately lip-off that the originator is 'bringing down the
>standards' or 'nuts' or 'seeking attention', etc. Yet here we
>are on a UFO list!

>I have a saying: " Everything is a crazy idea until it makes
>money. "

UFOs were a hot ticket item in the publishing industry going
into 1997 (the 50th anniversary) and now that has passed that
has slowed down...I suspect until 2007 or perhaps 2007 for the
60th anniversary. Same is true on the JFK assassination. You get
alot of books, videos and what nots for the 30 year anniversary
in 1993, then that whole subject matter has slowed back.

When there is money to be made the book publishers were be right
on it.  The same is true of colleges and universitys (you know
where many of the scientists and engineers live :) ) If the
government said they had 100 million dollars in grant money to
study UFOs many colleges/universitys and researchers would be
available to study UFOs and extol how little its been studied in
the past and how it deservers serious consideration now.

A university level individual pointedly said one day that the
reason climate change gets so much attention is because they are
milking various federal cash cows for research/grant money and
the government is willing to give it out. I would suppose that
if the govt stopped funding climate change money, the subject
would get as much attention as say UFOs or other subjects.

>On to these 'illuminati'. I've run into references and
>confessions from reliable people and I had to look further into
>it because it's all under the UFO issue. It's under and all over
>tons of other issues too from health care to pet breeding! What
>I had to come to grips with is there isn't just ONE illuminati
>but numerous illuminati of various sizes and influence. There
>are old timers like the Masons and their branches and religious,
>political groups. Not all in agreement with one another and
>often in opposition. The kicker here is how every branch of not
>only our government but foreign governments and social
>institutions are infiltrated and influenced by these people.

>The dangerous ones are the ones who oppose change for the
>better. As stated there isn't just one overall group but some
>are so interwoven with one another they give off the apparency.
>Some are old. Older than the term illuminati itself.

What people don't comprehend, as they guzzle their beer and
monday night football/baseball or whatever is that powerful
agendas are at work to accomplish certain things... much of the
agenda and the people work right out in the open. For example if
somebody would have said 10 years ago that their is planning
happening to in essence merge Canada/North America/South America
people would have dismissed the person as a kook conspiracy
theorist, yet when the President of Mexico openly admits it in
January people kind of yawn and go back to beer and MNF.

IMO people will do the same thing if the govt admitted that UFOs
exist. For a day or two it would be headline news; the people as
a whole would say something about gee how interesting and words
along the lines of "Well I knew all the time...I just never said
in public. Then the media would move back to the next smoking
dead body story, or the latest from the Michael Jackson trial.


>What we should be on the lookout for are those groups that are
>using religion, politics, to control and arrest the growth of
>creativity and science.

The problem with many of these so called scientists is that they
have a belief system locked on something they read or studied 20
to 80 years ago, rather then admitting that science is a process
of change, that new discoverys will be made down the road that
will put new light and new understanding on science, perhaps
even discrediting so called other scientific discoverys.  Point
blank, much of what is published and touted as revolutionary
science will be yawned at in 30 years with the arrival of new
information, new theories, and new technology.

Same is true of the environment. 50 years from now people will
be blathering about how the people in the year 2000 had no clue
had to bury/package waste and how they have to dig up all of the
landfills, radioactive waste dumps and other sites and re handle
everything because the way people did it in 2000 was just
worthless...

This has been my point with UFOs over the years. Instead of
wasting time trying to get skeptibunkers to give the evidence a
fair shake; instead of wasting time to get some university on
the band wagon to do some scientific study, we within the UFO
field need to just go out and do it ourselves and not worry
about whether so called "main stream science" will get on board.


Cheers,

Robert







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                            Hey I Made A Boo-Boo!

From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 02:17:29 EST
Fwd Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 09:27:27 -0500
Subject: Hey I Made A Boo-Boo!


Great Ceasar's Ghost!

I've actually made a boo-boo!

My credibility and reputation are now destroyed beyond all
recognition!

No one will speak to me, no one will play baseball with me ever
again all because I made a boo-boo.

I was reaching for a #1 Windsor Newton brush and accidently
grabbed a #2 and was illustrating a comics page and realized it
was the wrong brush!

Woe is me!

Seriously. I'm only posting that as an illustration to one of
the main things that plagues mankind:

Fear of admitting a mistake or being made wrong.

So what? We make boo-boos. That's why we go to schools and study
and practice.

Yet in this field of UFO research and the inevitable paranormal
venue, I've run into people so danged stubborn that to get them
to see things from another viewpoint is as tough as trying to
find a customer support center that speaks english.

That goes for both sides, skeptics and believers. Even when the
evidence is as plain as the nose on one's face some are square
jawed set to disregard it because it might mean they're wrong
about something.

A scientist, a good one, does his or her research, follows the
proper procedures and presents their conclusions. Other
scientists cross check the data per procedure and either confirm
or invalidate or request further study.

Same with a researcher. A professional one that is. There's no
need for name calling and sniping and berating. That's for
children and those who are afraid.

Sure enough there have been classic cases of fraud in reporting
UFO related things on both sides of the fence from skeptics to
believers. The truth always comes out in the wash anyway.

So if any of us genuinely researches something and in the long
run we find our conclusions aren't precise and exact, so what?
We've learned a lesson and it's time to pick up the pieces and
go back at it. It's not necessarily a smite on our character and
shouldn't be. I'ld rather be rightly wrong than wrongly right.
It saves resources and lives.

In this field of study regarding UFOs a grain of salt is a part
of our arsenal. Caution too.

The danger comes from those who intentionally set out to
deceive. Also from those who made an honest error, discovered so
and didn't own up to it. Sometimes I think the latter is the
most harmful.

To me a perfect man is a man who is honorable and courageous
enough to himself and others to admit he has made an error.
 t's the first step to getting it right.

So to heck with what others say unless it's constructive to the
overall agenda. The wiseacre naysayers and their actions, either
skeptic or believer only validate their insecurities and ill
intentions.

So go out and knock over a cup of soda. Call your dog or cat by
the wrong name. Make a mistake and giggle at yourself. It can be
therapeutic and remind you it's only as serious as your fears
makes it so.


Best,

Greg








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                             JPL: What To Expect

From: Mac Tonnies <macbot.nul>
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 23:49:34 -0800 (PST)
Fwd Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 09:28:24 -0500
Subject: JPL: What To Expect



JPL's Big March 2 Press Conference: What to Expect

by Mac Tonnies

See:

http://posthumanblues.blogspot.com/2004_03_01_posthumanblues_archive.html#107821
277882146776

-end-








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                       Re: JPL: What To Expect - Shell

From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 08:46:28 -0600
Fwd Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 11:41:18 -0500
Subject: Re: JPL: What To Expect - Shell


>From: Mac Tonnies <macbot.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 23:49:34 -0800 (PST)
>Subject: JPL: What To Expect

>JPL's Big March 2 Press Conference: What to Expect
>by Mac Tonnies

>http://posthumanblues.blogspot.com/2004_03_01_posthumanblues_archive.html#10782
1277882146776


I almost don't want to hazard a guess. Looking with my
particularly jaundiced eye, all I see are a lot of rocks, maybe
some sedimentary. With clearly defined channels all over the
place on Mars, it's obvious to any schoolkid with a brain that
there used to be some kind of flowing liquid on the surface, if
only for a little while (a few million years). So that wouldn't
be much of an announcement. Whoop-de-frickin-doo.

On the other hand, I see a lot of markings on the rocks in those
Oppotunity rover photos that look like plant and leaf
impressions - criss-crossed little marks that look like
Japanese bamboo paintings. They even found them in that hole
they scraped away. They're pretty eroded after a billion or so
years, but what do you expect? And as for those little blue
balls... They're interesting and seem to be everywhere. They
don't look like tektites to me. They're a puzzler.

So I don't know. What could JPL announce that's so thrilling?
All I know is what they consider important and what I consider
important can be two very different things. Hey, maybe they have
found a fossil of some kind. That would be cool.

Do they release all of the photos they take to the net?

http://qt.exploratorium.edu/mars/jpl-images/web/

or do they squirrel away some of the better ones for themselves?








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                      Re: JPL: What To Expect - Kaeser

From: Steven Kaeser <steve.nul>
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 09:50:23 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 11:42:52 -0500
Subject: Re: JPL: What To Expect - Kaeser


>From: Mac Tonnies <macbot.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 23:49:34 -0800 (PST)
>Subject: JPL: What To Expect

>JPL's Big March 2 Press Conference: What to Expect

>by Mac Tonnies

>See:

http://posthumanblues.blogspot.com/2004_03_01_posthumanblues_archive.html#107821
277882146776


It appears that there's little doubt that JPL is going to
announce significant finding regarding water on Mars:

http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/opportunity_nasa_040301.html


Steve







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                  Re: Mystery Of Circle In The Sky - Curtis

From: Ray Curtis <r.curtis80.nul>
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 14:44:12 +0000 (GMT Standard Time)
Fwd Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 11:48:16 -0500
Subject: Re: Mystery Of Circle In The Sky - Curtis


>From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>To: <- UFO UpDates Subscribers -> <ufo-updates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 08:48:52 -0500
>Subject: UFO UpDate: Mystery Of Circle In The Sky

>Source: The East Anglian Daily Times - UK

>http://www.eadt.co.uk/content/news/story.asp?datetime=02+Mar+2004+07%3A17&tbran
d=EADOnline&tCategory=NEWS&category=News&brad=EADOnline&itemid=IPED01+Mar+2004+2
1%3A17%3A33%3A297

>March 2, 2004 07:17


Regarding the mystery of a circle in the sky over East Anglia, I
live in Norwich, and whilst at my computer Tuesday about five pm
a beautiful clear early evening I watched while an aircraft
made this lovely halo in the  cloudless sky. A UFO with a
difference.

Hope this clears up the matter.


Regards,

Ray Curtis









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                         Re: The Illuminati - Warren

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 07:57:52 -0800
Fwd Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 11:51:05 -0500
Subject: Re: The Illuminati - Warren


>From: Robert Gates <RGates8254.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 02:12:13 EST
>Subject: Re: The Illuminati

>>From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
>>Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 13:34:22 EST
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Subject: Re: The Illuminati

>>>From: Robert Gates <RGates8254.nul>
>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 23:37:22 EST
>>>Subject: Re: The Illuminati

<snip>

>IMO people will do the same thing if the govt admitted that UFOs
>exist. For a day or two it would be headline news; the people as
>a whole would say something about gee how interesting and words
>along the lines of "Well I knew all the time...I just never said
>in public. Then the media would move back to the next smoking
>dead body story, or the latest from the Michael Jackson trial.

Bob, Greg,

Pardon the the interjection, but I wanted to point out that the
government "doesn't deny the existence of UFOs"; their official
position is:

(1) no UFO reported, investigated, and evaluated by the Air
Force was ever a threat to our national security;

(2) there was no evidence submitted to, or discovered by, the
Air Force that sightings categorized as "unidentified"
represented technological developments or principles beyond the
range of modern scientific knowledge; and

(3) there was no evidence indicating that sightings categorized
as "unidentified" were extraterrestrial vehicles.

(Conclusion of Project Blue Book).


Regards,

Frank










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   Mar > Mar 2

                  NASA To Release Significant Mars Findings

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 08:07:34 -0800
Fwd Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 11:52:19 -0500
Subject: NASA To Release Significant Mars Findings



Source: The Kansas City Star

http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/news/politics/8080827.htm

03- 02-04


NASA to Release Significant Mars Findings

John Antczak

Associated Press

LOS ANGELES - The Opportunity rover has apparently found
something on Mars that's got scientist buzzing back on Earth.

NASA plans to announce Tuesday "significant findings" involving
the six-wheeled rover that has been searching the dusty martian
landscape since January for any history of water.

"The primary mission of the rovers really dealt with the history
of water on Mars and we'll be reporting new findings that bear
on that," NASA spokesman Don Savage said Monday from Washington,
D.C. "I can't go into any detail without telling you what it
was."

Since NASA launched the twin robot geologists last summer,
scientists hoped the rovers would find minerals that could
reveal whether the planet ever was wet enough to support life.

Other than a statement characterizing the findings as
"significant," the space agency revealed no details in advance.
However, participants in the twin rover mission managed by the
Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena, Calif., said last week
that scientists were excited by data that Opportunity was
sending back to Earth.

Opportunity has been studying an outcropping of layered rock
close to its landing site in a small crater on an area of Mars
called Meridiani Planum. A piece dubbed "El Capitan" has
generated much of the latest interest.

Rob Manning, a mission manager, said a week ago that he couldn't
comment on the science team's speculation about the findings but
that there was "probably as much enthusiasm as we've ever had by
the science team and a lot of intense discussions over these
last several days."

Opportunity, as well as its twin Spirit, has been using
microscopic photography, rock abrasion tools that grind off
surface layers and spectrometers to examine the martian
landscape.

While Opportunity has stayed close to its landing site to
explore the outcropping, Spirit has been traveling on the other
side of the planet, studying rocks and soil en route to a big
crater named "Bonneville" that scientists hope will give the
rover a view of geology well below the surface.









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                   India Lands 'UFO' In Pak, Creates Panic

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 08:15:16 -0800
Fwd Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 11:54:27 -0500
Subject: India Lands 'UFO' In Pak, Creates Panic


Source: Sify News

http://sify.com/news/fullstory.php?id=13417841

02-03-04

India Lands 'UFO' In Pak, Creates Panic


New Delhi: Has a UFO (unidentified flying object) landed in
Pakistan from India? Panicky authorities in Pakistan certainly
thought so and sent all concerned on either side of the borders
separating the two nations into a tizzy.

Discuss: We can't trust Pakistan

The Border Security Force (BSF) went on a state of high alert in
Punjab following the report of the UFO taking off from India and
landing in Pakistan.

According to a senior BSF official, the reported flying object
landed in Pakistan territory around 300 yards from the zero line
near the BSF's Fatehpur check post in the village of Chann Kalan
on Thursday evening.

BSF Constable Jagdish Parishad, who was on duty at the
international border on Thursday evening, was quoted by the
Daily Times as saying that he had seen "a flying object like a
hot-air balloon carrying three persons, who disembarked after
landing in Pakistan's territory".

But according to his Senior Commandant Darbara Singh, it could
have been a para-glider or a fan-glider or even a hot air
balloon.

"Now it has become difficult to ascertain the nature of the
flying object that landed in the Pakistani territory, as the BSF
constable deployed at the post was not educated enough to
identify the object," claimed Singh.

"Since the constable has never seen any para-glider, fan-glider
or a hot-air balloon, it is difficult to verify the authenticity
of the matter," he added.

"The BSF has already handed over a protest note to the Pakistan
authorities to provide necessary information on the landing
object," he further said.

Meanwhile, the police station on the Indian side had lodged a
case under the Indian Foreign Passport Act and Foreign Act, a
police official said. ANI










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               Re: Tracing The Flow Of The Gulf Breeze Money -

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 10:44:45 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 11:57:45 -0500
Subject: Re: Tracing The Flow Of The Gulf Breeze Money -


>From: Kenny Young <ufo.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 19:19:58 -0500
>Subject: Re: Tracing The Flow Of The Gulf Breeze Money

>>From: Robert Gates <RGates8254.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 00:40:06 EST
>>Subject: Re: Tracing The Flow Of The Gulf Breeze Money

>>Quite honestly I am still waiting for the evidence of these
>>allegations and all I have heard is stories and tales. At this
>>point Ed Walters pictures are more credible then tales and
>>allegations about MUFON and Bruce M.

>You have got to be kidding. How can anyone realistically look at
>the hokey Ed Walters pictures, knowing the history of Ed
>Walters' photo trickery, the Hyzer photo analysis which shoots
>down this case as doube-exposing frauds and all the reported
>'money issues' from the beginning... how could any rational
>observer not think that this current remark about the photos
>having more credibility than contrary information refuting this
>case is a zany comment?

As has been pointed out many times before on this list and
elsewhere, the Hyzer analysis does not prove a hoax, in spite of
what some people loudly proclaim.

>I am to be faulted for having no more tolerance for this tired
>issue. Jerry Black is right when he says this case is an
>embarrassment to the UFO subject. This Ed Walters case is a sham
>and I think most of the people on this List know it. It is my
>concern that the chief promoter, Dr. Bruce Maccabee, knows full
>well this case is a sham in spite of his defense of the case,

If it had been a sham I would have found this out back in the
spring of 1988 and would have said so at the MUFON symp that
year.

>Dr. Maccabee has responded to things on this List before, mostly
>trying to resort to an attempted technical discussion with
>fogged non-specifics, and I understand why he wants the issue to
>be dropped and to "let's move on, please." I would want to get
>away from all that too if I were in those shoes.

Amusing. Here I am criticized for making use of technical
aspects of Ed's photos to support my conclusion that the photos
weren't faked. And as for "fogged non-specifics" I guess my
"specifics" seem "fogged" because the reader doesn't have enough
knowledge or background in the subject or whatever to understand
the technical details. The importance of the stereo photos with
the SRS camera is a case in point which I described in detail as
long ago as the July 1988 MUFON Symp.

And don't forget that the indictment of "hoax is not just
against Ed. There are a dozen other witnesses who said they saw
the same thing during the roughly 8 month time period (1987-
1988) and many other witnesses who said they saw something
unusual (lights, etc) in the Gulf Breeze skies, also in the same
time period. Sorry. I don't accept the idea that the fact that
Ed's photos were publicized "caused" these other sightings to
happen.

Of course, then there is the follow on: "Bubba"....  one version
of which I saw for myself.

As far as "moving on" is concerned, we may as well. There are
plenty of more recent events that require time and effort. No
point in spending hours on re-arguing that which has been argued
"endlessly" over the last 15 <gulp> years because it seems
apparent that no minds will be changed. Just to re-read the many
hundreds of pages of letters I have received and investigative
material on the subject over the years would require days, when
I am trying to analyze recent cases (and do lots of other stuff,
too... like live).







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                          Secrecy News -- 03/02/04

From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood.nul>
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 11:01:20 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 12:00:16 -0500
Subject: Secrecy News -- 03/02/04


SECRECY NEWS
from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy
Volume 2004, Issue No. 24
March 2, 2004


**      LOS ALAMOS: SIMULATING TERRORIST NETWORKS
**      WHITE HOUSE COUNSEL GONZALES ON ENEMY COMBATANTS
**      JUSTICE DEPT ON CRITICAL INFRASTRUCTURE INFO, SHSI
**      SEEKING CULTURAL DIVERSITY IN U.S. INTELLIGENCE
**      INTELLIGENCE IN SUPPORT OF INTERNAL DEFENSE OPERATIONS


LOS ALAMOS: SIMULATING TERRORIST NETWORKS

Los Alamos scientists are using computer simulations to gain
insight into the nature of Islamist terrorist organizations.

"Borrowing tools from the field of computational economics and
sociology, we are developing agent-based models that simulate
social networks and the spread of social grievances within those
networks," wrote Edward P. MacKerrow in the latest issue of Los
Alamos Science.

"Our computer-generated 'agents' are humanlike, endowed with
personal attributes and allegiances that statistically match the
demographics of a specified region and, like people, interact
with one another and response to societal pressures."

"We can expose our agents to a variety of determinants -- new
government policies, different media exposure, economic
pressures, and others -- and quickly generate hundreds of new
scenarios."

The goal is to develop "a detailed understanding of the
sociodynamics of militant Islamic terrorism," MacKerrow wrote.

See "Understanding Why -- Dissecting Radical Islamist Terrorism
with Agent-Based Simulation" by Edward P. MacKerrow, Los Alamos
Science, Number 28, 2003 (1.5 MB PDF file):

http://www.fas.org/sgp/othergov/doe/lanl/pubs/las28/why.pdf

For no good reason, the full text of the latest issue of Los
Alamos Science is not available on the Los Alamos web site. But
a copy may be found here:

  http://www.fas.org/sgp/othergov/doe/lanl/pubs/las28/index.html


WHITE HOUSE COUNSEL GONZALES ON ENEMY COMBATANTS

"Until today, the Government has been reticent about discussing
in any detail the decision-making steps that may result in an
American citizen being designated as an enemy combatant or how
an American detainee held in the United States may be provided
access to counsel," said White House Counsel Alberto Gonzales
last week.

"Our silence has been largely for reasons of national security."

"We realize that our relative silence on this issue has come at
a cost. Many people have characterized -- mis-characterized, in
our view -- our actions in the war on terrorism as inconsistent
with the rule of law."

"Indeed, because of our silence, many critics have assumed the
worst. They have assumed that there is little or no analysis --
 legal or otherwise -- behind the decision to detain a
particular person as enemy combatant. To them, the decision
making process is a black box that raises the specter of
arbitrary action."

In his February 24 speech, Mr. Gonzales filled in some of the
procedural gaps, while insisting that determinations regarding
who is an enemy combatant are the sole province of the executive
branch.

His presentation is predicated on the assumption that the "war
on terrorism" is analogous, in every significant way, to past
wars such as World War II and that past law and precedent is
therefore a sufficient guide to current practice.

See the text of his speech before the American Bar Association
Standing Committee on Law and National Security here:

http://www.fas.org/irp/news/2004/02/gonzales.pdf

The speech was reported and analyzed in "Bush Counsel: How U.S.
Classifies Terror Suspects" by Vanessa Blum, Legal Times, March
1 (sub. or free reg. required):

http://www.law.com/jsp/dc/index.jsp


JUSTICE DEPT ON CRITICAL INFRASTRUCTURE INFO, SHSI

The new regulations that exempt "critical infrastructure
information" from disclosure under the Freedom of Information
Act were discussed and interpreted by the Department of Justice
Office of Information and Privacy in an online notice last week.

Justice reiterated that the new regulations are likely to be
expanded to encompass information submitted to agencies other
than the Department of Homeland Security (DHS), and that "such a
development could be expected to have an impact upon the daily
processes of FOIA administration at many agencies."

The Justice notice also observed that DHS procedures governing
the handling of "sensitive homeland security information" (SHSI)
are not yet complete.

Those long-anticipated procedures "hold the potential of
significantly altering the landscape for the safeguarding of
federal information," the notice said.  See:

http://www.usdoj.gov/oip/foiapost/2004foiapost6.htm


SEEKING CULTURAL DIVERSITY IN U.S. INTELLIGENCE

"The origins of the Intelligence Community are basically white
male, if you go back to World War II and its aftermath,"
observed Gen. James Clapper, head of the National Geospatial
Intelligence Agency (NGA).  "And that may be a lingering legacy
yet today."

However "we can no longer expect an Intelligence Community that
is mostly male and mostly white to be able to monitor and
infiltrate suspicious organizations or  terrorist groups," said
Rep. Jane Harman (D-CA).  "We need spies that look like their
targets, CIA officers who speak the dialects that terrorists
use, and FBI agents who can speak to Muslim women that might be
intimidated by men."

The challenges to the workforce of U.S. intelligence presented
by a multicultural world, and efforts to meet those challenges,
were addressed in a November 5, 2003 open hearing of the House
Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence.

The transcript of that hearing, published last month, is
available here:

http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/2003_hr/110503hpsci.html


INTELLIGENCE IN SUPPORT OF INTERNAL DEFENSE OPERATIONS

A U.S. Army correspondence course for intelligence personnel
provides an introduction to the theory of revolution and the
role of intelligence in confronting insurgencies and bolstering
internal defense in foreign countries.

Students may monitor their own progress with multiple-choice
self-test questions such as the following:

What are insurgents?

A. Citizens who protest US military combat personnel entering
their country.

B. Citizens attempting to legally alter the governmental
structure by holding private elections.

C. Citizens of a country attempting by illegal means to change
the way it is governed.

D. People that privately disagree with the government over
political issues and hold meetings to discuss how to rectify
identified shortcomings.

The correct answer, um, is C.

See "Intelligence in Support of Internal Defense Operations,"
U.S. Army Intelligence Center, Fort Huachuca, AZ, September 1998
(thanks to RT):

http://www.fas.org/irp/agency/army/internal.pdf


_______________________________________________
Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the
Federation of American Scientists.

To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to
secrecy_news-request.nul
with "subscribe" in the body of the message.

OR email your request to saftergood.nul

Secrecy News is archived at:
http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html

_______________________
Steven Aftergood
Project on Government Secrecy
Federation of American Scientists
web:    www.fas.org/sgp/index.html
email:  saftergood.nul
voice:  (202) 454-4691








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                     Re: JPL: What To Expect - Stanford

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 11:21:15 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 12:01:55 -0500
Subject: Re: JPL: What To Expect - Stanford


>From: Mac Tonnies <macbot.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 23:49:34 -0800 (PST)
>Subject: JPL: What To Expect

>JPL's Big March 2 Press Conference: What to Expect

>by Mac Tonnies

>See:

http://posthumanblues.blogspot.com/2004_03_01_posthumanblues_archive.html#107821
277882146776

I went there and read what you had to say, but think your
crystal ball may be a little fogged up with skepticism about
NASA-JPL, today, Mac.

Well, as I write this, we have only two hours and forty minutes
to wait. This is one on which I hope and believe you are wrong.
 They will surely not say as much as you might hope, but I think
you are in for a surprise.

Ray Stanford

"You know my method.  It is founded upon the observance of
trifles." -- Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery








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               Intense UFO Activity Amid Venezuelan Political

From: Scott Corrales <lornis1.nul>
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 12:36:25 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 12:04:02 -0500
Subject: Intense UFO Activity Amid Venezuelan Political


SOURCE: CIFAE (www.ovniaventura.com)
DATE: March 2, 2004

INTENSE UFO ACTIVITY AMID POLITICAL UNREST
by Hector Arturo Escalante

Venezuela's social and political situation remains tense.
Hundreds of people are demonstrating up to twice a month in the
capital city to publicly express their political ideals and
statements. Parallel to this conflictive situation it has been
possible to report UFO sightings.

Caracas, Venezuela. 2/26/04. While Venezuela's political future
is debated in the streets after manifestations and streetfights
between adversaries and supporters of the Hugo Chavez
government, a strange phenomenon, seemingly invisible before our
very eyes, has been manifesting itself in Venezuelan airspace.
This is the UFO phenomenon.

UFOs in the October 28, 2003 Uprising

As can be seen at www.ovniaventura.com, on October 23, 2003 it
was possible to photograph a UFO by pure chance in the skies of
Caracas. While nothing was seen at the time, the camera eye
managed to pick up a strange "something". It all happened at the
same time that groups opposed to the Venezuelan government were
meeting at squares, streets and avenues throughout the country
on other to collect signatures for a possible recall referendum
against President Chavez. As of that moment, all members of the
"OVNI Venezuela" group have been on alert in the face of
constant conflict and social unrest in Venezuela

UFOs During the January 23rd Celebrations

Two months later, a new chance photo of a UFO was taken during a
renewed and well-attended social demonstration in Caracas,
creating even further expectations as regards the phenomenon's
manifestations. The celebration was the 23rd of January, an
yearly holiday celebrated in the country since 1958 in
commemoration of the overthrow of the dictator Marcos Perez
Jimenez.

On this anniversary, a considerable group of Venezuelans
supporting the Chavez government marched through the main
streets fo Caracas to celebrate 46 years of democracy in
Venezuela. Their opponents marched as well in the suburbs of
eastern Caracas, but in this event, their goal was to alert the
population to the alleged hazads that democracy could be facing
under the Chavez Administration.

As is my custom, I took many photos of the sky, trying to locate
the line of sight over the disturbance area. I took care that
nothing strange should be going on around me (sic), aside to
what was going on at the time. When I took the first photos, the
time was between noon and one o'clock in the afternoon, and the
skies were partly cloudy. On this second opportunity another
"strange" thing was photographed: it was a dark, elongated
object over the western area of the city, not far from the
Miraflores presidential palace, an electric power station and
the Cagigal Observatory.

UFOs During the Mass Demonstration of February 4

Days went by and it was time for a new  and intense social
demonstration. For the third consecutive time it was possible
for me to obtain another UFO image. At the time, the political
situation was worsening with the arrival of the expected
official holiday of the 4th of February. The origin of this
holiday goes back to the morning hours of February 4,. 1992,
when a group of insurgents, led by Cmdr. Hugo Chavez, tried to
drive President Carlos Andres Perez from office after an
abortive coup d'etat. In this new image, the UFO appears to be
hovering over the central districts of the city, just as a
multitude of government supporters met in the La Rinconada
sector to pay tribute to those fallen during the attempted coup
and conmemorate Chavez's first participation in Venezuelan
politics.

When analyzed in detail we can see that this phenomenon, aside
from manifesting itself coincidentally at certain moments of
social stress, has certain visual similarities. When comparing
the November 28 photo with the February 4 one, it is possible to
see an almost exact location between the objects identified
therein, as though these had never moved or rather, giving the
impression that this was a strategic placmeent to carry out a
mission that requires their presence during said moments.
Surprising, isn't it? This is where the matter rests.

Images can be seen at www.ovniaventura.com

====================================

Translation (C) 2004 Scott Corrales IHU
Special Thanks to CIFAE









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                 Re: Mystery Of Circle In The Sky - Stanford

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 12:12:01 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 16:41:28 -0500
Subject: Re: Mystery Of Circle In The Sky - Stanford


>From: Ray Curtis <r.curtis80.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 14:44:12 +0000 (GMT Standard Time)
>Subject: Re: Mystery Of Circle In The Sky

>>From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>To: <- UFO UpDates Subscribers -><ufo-updates.nul>
>>Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 08:48:52 -0500
>>Subject: UFO UpDate: Mystery Of Circle In The Sky

>>Source: The East Anglian Daily Times - UK

>http://www.eadt.co.uk/content/news/story.asp?datetime=02+Mar+2004+07%3A17&t
brand=EADOnline&tCategory=NEWS&category=News&brad=EADOnline&itemid=IPED01+Ma
r+2004+21%3A17%3A33%3A297

>>March 2, 2004 07:17

>Regarding the mystery of a circle in the sky over East Anglia, I
>live in Norwich, and whilst at my computer Tuesday about five pm
>a beautiful clear early evening I watched while an aircraft
>made this lovely halo in the cloudless sky. A UFO with a
>difference.

>Hope this clears up the matter.

This does not exactly clear up the mystery, but it well might if
you will tell us how the aircraft (Could you see what type of
aircraft was involved?) made what you call a "halo". Did it
seem to be 'sky writing', or just an aircraft at high altitude
leaving a condensation wake ('vapor trail'), or what?


Thanks,

Ray Stanford

"You know my method. It is founded upon the observance of
trifles." -- Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery








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                        JPL/NASA's Ho Hum Conference

From: Chaz Stuart <Daydisk2.nul>
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 14:42:34 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 16:46:17 -0500
Subject: JPL/NASA's Ho Hum Conference


Tue, Mar 2, 2004, 2:15pm

Wow! They just announced that they believe water once existed on
Mars! Gee! We didn't know this did we?

Maybe in a few more years they'll tell us that there still is
water there!

I'm breathless...

Mac, I'm afraid you were right! The geologists don't want to
give up their cushy jobs.

--Chaz








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                  Re: Mystery Of Circle In The Sky - Bright

From: Dan Bright <ufo.nul>
Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 19:48:04 -0000
Fwd Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 16:47:21 -0500
Subject: Re: Mystery Of Circle In The Sky - Bright


>From: Ray Curtis <r.curtis80.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 14:44:12 +0000 (GMT Standard Time)
>Subject: Re: Mystery Of Circle In The Sky

>Source: The East Anglian Daily Times - UK
>A MYSTERIOUS circle in the sky had East Anglians scratching their
>heads last night.
>The giant halo was spotted above the region from about 5.30pm
>yesterday, leaving people wondering if they had just seen a UFO.

Further to this item, a spokesman for RAF Lakenheath has
confirmed to "Anglia TV" that a USAF jet was responsible for the
ring's appearance, but refused to name the pilot.

Source:

http://www.itvregions.com/news.php?region=Anglia&content=1443

Images of the circle can be found here:

http://www.ghostpilot.co.uk/Picture001.jpg

http://www.ghostpilot.co.uk/Picture002.jpg


Best,

Dan

--
Dan Bright
www.TheUnexplained.info








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                        Re: What To Expect - Stanford

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 16:00:10 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 16:49:30 -0500
Subject: Re: What To Expect - Stanford


>From: Steven Kaeser <steve.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 09:50:23 -0500
>Subject: Re: JPL: What To Expect

>>From: Mac Tonnies <macbot.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 23:49:34 -0800 (PST)
>>Subject: JPL: What To Expect

>>JPL's Big March 2 Press Conference: What to Expect

>>by Mac Tonnies

>>See:

> http://posthumanblues.blogspot.com/2004_03_01_posthumanblues_archive.html#1078
21277882146776

>It appears that there's little doubt that JPL is going to
>announce significant finding regarding water on Mars:

>http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/opportunity_nasa_040301.html


Not bad for a NASA-JPL start, I think.

The evidence indicates there was definitely water there at one
time, either below or above the surface, and maybe both? (Is any
thinker really surprised?). I will have comment on the JPL
interpretation of the 'blueberries' (small gray spherules) as
concretions later, and while it appears they are right about
many of them, some are clearly (or translucently) of glass and
are probably impact droplets.


Ray Stanford








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                    Re: Filer's Files #10-2004 - LeClair

From: Aaron LeClair <force.nul>
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 16:40:22 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 08:03:58 -0500
Subject: Re: Filer's Files #10-2004 - LeClair


>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 16:37:33 -0500
>Subject: Re: Filer's Files #10-2004

>>From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 14:02:32 -0600
>>Subject: Re: Filer's Files #10-2004

>>>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>>>Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 14:23:48 -0500
>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Subject: Re: Filer's Files #10-2004

>>>>From: George A. Filer Majorstar.nul
>>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>>Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 20:25:36 -0500
>>>>Subject: Filer's Files #10-2004

>>>>http://www.nationalufocenter.com/news/printable.php?id=170ℑ=on

>>>"Proof of ET on Mars E Rock"! I've seen some 'caca de toro' on
>>>this list at times, but, by George, this takes the cake! :)

>>Well, I think it just proves beyond a doubt that Martians knew
>>English, or some other language with that serifed "E" in it, but
>>they weren't very good at kerning, because there are no other
>>letters on either side of it. I guess they were destroyed, while
>>the "E" remained untouched. Lucky for us, huh? Or maybe somebody
>>just decided to "buy a vowel" and that's as far as they got.

>>I think it's tremendously fortunate that both rovers landed in
>>areas that are so obviously chock full of ancient ruins and
>>artifacts. But, then again, reviewing some of these
>>"discoveries," I get the feeling the whole planet is covered
>>with ruins and artifacts, like a giant junkyard.

>>Hey, maybe that's where all the rust comes from!

>Right-on, Tim! Sharp observer. Did you notice that old 1940 Ford
>hubcap laying off to the side over there? Heck, someone might
>taken that to be a landed UFO!

>After reading Filer's earth-shaking announcement, I got to
>looking really closely and think there might be an old, faded
>Viagra box back in the distance, discarded by some Martian. I
>suspect you can read it if you squint real hard. Always wondered
>who robbed our local drug store, and why.

>Some of those spammers ought to broadcast their spam the
>Martians, heck if those guys had to have Antonio Villas-Boas
>service their lassie, they must need all the help they can get.
>:)


Anyone know Jeff Rense personally? I don't, but been wondering
why he has Filer on so much...

Hurts thecredibility of his show I would imagine.

>Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known."
> - Carl Sagan

Carl Vague-an









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               Re: Tracing The Flow Of The Gulf Breeze Money -

From: Katharina Wilson <K_Wilson.nul>
Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 16:53:13 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 08:08:07 -0500
Subject: Re: Tracing The Flow Of The Gulf Breeze Money -


>From: Kenny Young <ufo.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 19:19:58 -0500
>Subject: Re: Tracing The Flow Of The Gulf Breeze Money

>>From: Robert Gates <RGates8254.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 00:40:06 EST
>>Subject: Re: Tracing The Flow Of The Gulf Breeze Money


>>Quite honestly I am still waiting for the evidence of these
>>allegations and all I have heard is stories and tales. At this
>>point Ed Walters pictures are more credible then tales and
>>allegations about MUFON and Bruce M.

I agree 100% with your statement. If there is any proof at all
to support these allegations, then the "paper trail" should be
included and/or posted on one of these people's Web sites
to substantiate their claims.

Mr. Black and Kenny Young - where is _your proof_?
Personally, I think the people on this list are tired of your
unfounded and unproved personal attacks against Bruce Maccabee.

For those of you who were not there: Rex Salisbury _infiltrated_
our MUFON-backed abductee support group, passing himself
off as someone who _cared_ and who was supposedly an
_investigator._ He was _neither_. His wife also attended, but
I am unsure of what she was pretending to be at the time.
I know, because I was _there_.

These allegations are based on the memories of Rex Salisbury,
who - from the very beginning, had his own personal agenda.
He _infiltrated_ several abductee support groups. He passed
himself off as someone he wasn't. He _lied_ from the beginning.

Why should anyone believe anything he has to say now?

>You have got to be kidding. How can anyone realistically look at
>the hokey Ed Walters pictures, knowing the history of Ed
>Walters' photo trickery, the Hyzer photo analysis which shoots
>down this case as doube-exposing frauds and all the reported
>'money issues' from the beginning... how could any rational
>observer not think that this current remark about the photos
>having more credibility than contrary information refuting this
>case is a zany comment?

Although I disagree with every one of your unfounded statements,
people should realize that even without Ed Walters' photographs,
The Gulf Breeze Case still stands as a solid case. Many, many
other people saw the same craft that Ed Walters saw during the
same time period.

I personally know two people who saw this same craft, and I
did not get to know them through email, innuendo or through
third parties. I went to their homes. I met their wives and/or
husbands and children. These are_real_ people with _real_
lives. They don't even want people to know about they saw, and
I can't blame them after what Ed Walters and his family endured.

Don't you remember? Someone even poisoned The Walters' family
dog because they saw and photographed a UFO. How sad and
pathetic for the _debunkers_ and for the weak-minded people who
just can't deal with the truth.

If you don't want to believe that Ed Walters' really saw and
photographed the craft he did, then fine. However, you have no
right to accuse everyone and anyone of photo trickery or of being
paid off for their analyses of the photographs, or for their support
of the case, especially when you do not have one shred of proof
to back up your claims.

Give me a break: You got this information when Rex Salisbury
was "researching his memories"? Did he use hypnosis to "research
his memories?" Did he have dated, documented notes? Did he
have recordings of conversations? Did he give you copies of the
front and back of the _alleged_ checks?

>I am to be faulted for having no more tolerance for this tired
>issue. Jerry Black is right when he says this case is an
>embarrassment to the UFO subject. This Ed Walters case is a sham
>and I think most of the people on this List know it. It is my
>concern that the chief promoter, Dr. Bruce Maccabee, knows full
>well this case is a sham in spite of his defense of the case,
>and he has promoted and played off of this hoax for many years
>now, to his benefit.

Dr. Bruce Maccabee was _not_ the chief promoter of this case. As
the record shows, the local newspaper published the photographs
first. Were they _paid off_ by Walters or Maccabee? I doubt it.

Also, as I recall, after that newspaper published the
photographs, they were _conveniently_ purchased by a large news
company... Night Ridder, if I recall correctly?

And what benefits and rewards has Dr. Maccabee received? So, he
may have been paid for his contribution to the book - If you
knew _anything_ about publishing, _ and I mean _anything_ then
you would know that the sum of $18,000 (if that is really the
amount of money he was paid) is a drop in the bucket for
publishing companies to pay someone for an expert opinion about
the subject matter they are publishing.

Before you and Jerry respond again, why don't you present some
proof for a change instead of empty allegations and innuendos?

And, one last thing, if Mr. Black really knew Vicki Lyons, he
would know better than to put words in her mouth or to speak for
her.

And, he would know how to spell her name!


Katharina Wilson









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                  Re: JPL/NASA's Ho Hum Conference - Shell

From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 16:23:59 -0600
Fwd Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 08:09:43 -0500
Subject: Re: JPL/NASA's Ho Hum Conference - Shell


>From: Chaz Stuart <Daydisk2.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 14:42:34 -0500 (EST)
>Subject: JPL/NASA's Ho Hum Conference

>Tue, Mar 2, 2004, 2:15pm

>Wow! They just announced that they believe water once existed on
>Mars! Gee! We didn't know this did we?

>Maybe in a few more years they'll tell us that there still is
>water there!

First they run over the bunny and now this. And that tiny Mars
screw worm fossil. Oh, well. One baby step at a time, I guess,
so people don't run screaming into the streets in a panic to
find out there used to be a little worm on Mars.







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                     New NASA Evidence For Water On Mars

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 17:33:45 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 08:10:38 -0500
Subject: New NASA Evidence For Water On Mars


NASA Science News for March 2, 2004

Today scientists presented strong evidence that NASA's Mars
rover Opportunity landed in a place that was once drenched in
liquid water.

FULL STORY at:

http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2004/02mar_meridianiwater.htm?list159275








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                 Re: JPL/NASA's Ho Hum Conference - Stanford

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 18:03:21 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 08:15:48 -0500
Subject: Re: JPL/NASA's Ho Hum Conference - Stanford


>From: Chaz Stuart <Daydisk2.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 14:42:34 -0500 (EST)
>Subject: JPL/NASA's Ho Hum Conference

>Tue, Mar 2, 2004, 2:15pm

>Wow! They just announced that they believe water once existed on
>Mars! Gee! We didn't know this did we?

>Maybe in a few more years they'll tell us that there still is
>water there!

>I'm breathless...

>Mac, I'm afraid you were right! The geologists don't want to
>give up their cushy jobs.


Show us any evidence you believe you have that NASA-JPL
geologists (or any others) are hiding anything to loose their
jobs about if they should reveal it.

I think they did a good job with the hard data they had to go
on. Your 'beef' is clearly that it just wasn't sensational
enough for you. Science does not base its conclusions on wishful
thinking, rumors from pro-Mars-life websites, or the like, but
upon evidence they can back up in the 'court' of scientific
reason. It's a tough 'court', and justifiably so.

Three cheers for the guys of NASA and JPL who have worked hard
to get our knowledge of Mars to this point, coolly and
conservatively, without jumping to hasty or insubstantial
conclusions.

Ray Stanford

"You know my method. It is founded upon the observance of
trifles." -- Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery








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                      Re: JPL: What To Expect - Tonnies

From: Mac Tonnies <macbot.nul>
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 15:02:17 -0800 (PST)
Fwd Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 08:17:01 -0500
Subject: Re: JPL: What To Expect - Tonnies


>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 11:21:15 -0500
>Subject: Re: JPL: What To Expect

>>From: Mac Tonnies <macbot.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto
><ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 23:49:34 -0800 (PST)
>>Subject: JPL: What To Expect

>>JPL's Big March 2 Press Conference: What to Expect

>>by Mac Tonnies

>>See:

http://posthumanblues.blogspot.com/2004_03_01_posthumanblues_archive.html#107821
277882146776

>I went there and read what you had to say, but think your
>crystal ball may be a little fogged up with skepticism about
>NASA-JPL, today, Mac.

>Well, as I write this, we have only two hours and forty minutes
>to wait. This is one on which I hope and believe you are wrong.
> They will surely not say as much as you might hope, but I think
>you are in for a surprise.

They said pretty much exactly what I predicted. I wich I could
feel sunnier about this.

=====
Mac Tonnies (macbot.nul)

Explore MTVI @ http://www.mactonnies.com

Posthuman Blues: http://posthumanblues.blogspot.com (daily blog)

"After the Martian Apocalypse": in bookstores July, 2004
http://www.mactonnies.com/atma.html








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                 Re: JPL/NASA's Ho Hum Conference - Tonnies

From: Mac Tonnies <macbot.nul>
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 15:05:19 -0800 (PST)
Fwd Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 08:18:07 -0500
Subject: Re: JPL/NASA's Ho Hum Conference - Tonnies


>From: Chaz Stuart <Daydisk2.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 14:42:34 -0500 (EST)
>Subject: JPL/NASA's Ho Hum Conference

>Tue, Mar 2, 2004, 2:15pm

>Wow! They just announced that they believe water once existed on
>Mars! Gee! We didn't know this did we?

>Maybe in a few more years they'll tell us that there still is
>water there!

>I'm breathless...

>Mac, I'm afraid you were right! The geologists don't want to
>give up their cushy jobs.

Aside from a few specifics gathered by Opportunity, JPL merely
reiterated what it's been saying since the Mariner project.
That was in the 1960s.


=====
Mac Tonnies (macbot.nul)

Explore MTVI @ http://www.mactonnies.com

Posthuman Blues: http://posthumanblues.blogspot.com (daily blog)

"After the Martian Apocalypse": in bookstores July, 2004
http://www.mactonnies.com/atma.html








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                 Re: Mystery Of Circle In The Sky - Stedman

From: Gary Stedman <Gary.Stedman.nul>
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 23:13:17 -0000
Fwd Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 08:49:31 -0500
Subject: Re: Mystery Of Circle In The Sky - Stedman


Hi List Members,

Interviewed on the local Anglia news, the Public Affairs for the
USAFE 48th FW at RAF Lakenheath has confirmed that a F-15E from
the Wing's 492nd FS was the cause of the contrails seen over
Ipswich and Suffolk last night.

As a keen observer and photographer over at Lakenheath I can
vouch for the fact that its fairly common to see the Wing's
Eagles orbiting nearby to run down fuel before recovering to
Lakenheath.

Conditions for contrails over Suffolk and East Anglia were ideal
yesterday evening. I was watching contrailing aircraft about ten
miles away from where this occured. For what its worth, it was
the talk of the Ipswich aviation society this evening!


Gary Stedman
Suffolk
UK







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                         Re: UFOs & Fairies? - Pope

From: Nick Pope <nick.nul>
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 23:31:14 -0000
Fwd Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 08:51:35 -0500
Subject: Re: UFOs & Fairies? - Pope


>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 13:36:05 -0600
>Subject: Re: UFOs & Fairies?

>>From: Nick Pope <nick.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 17:23:31 -0000
>>Subject: Re: UFOs & Fairies?

>>>From: Thiago Luiz Ticchetti <thiagolt.nul>
>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 15:51:15 -0300
>>>Subject: UFOs & Fairies?

>>>I would like to know if anyone has information about the
>>>correlation between UFOs and fairies, mythology, legends,
>>>folklore and so on.

>>Many people have made such a correlation. Perhaps the two most
>>notable are folklorist Thomas E. Bullard and author Jacques
>>Vallee. Bullard's "UFO Abductions: The Measure of a Mystery" is
>>worth a look, as are Vallee's books, especially "Passport to
>>Magonia" and "Dimensions".

>In my opinion Vallee's writings on the alleged correlation
>between fairies and UFO occupants are close to worthless. I will
>give him credit, however, at least for opening the discussion.
>Eddie Bullard, on the other hand, does a masterly job of wending
>his way through the complexities and nuances of the matter,
>whose treatment otherwise in post-Vallee literature tends toward
>the cartoonish and/or polemical.

>I also have written on the subject, showing there are
>correlations but not in any simplistic, one-to-one sense. The
>question is not so much whether supernatural entities exist -
>an unanswerable one - as whether we can experience them, and
>how all of this relates to the issues ufologists confront (e.g.,
>are experiences necessarily events?). I refer anyone who's
>interested to the introductory essay to my book Unexplained!
>(1999) and to the chapters "Fairies" and "Merfolk." My "From
>Mermaids to Little Gray Men: The Prehistory of the UFO Abduction
>Phenomenon," in The Anomalist 8 (Spring 2000): 11-31, continues
>the discussion.

I've just re-read the entry "Fairies Encountered" in Jerry's
book "Extraordinary Encounters", and was remiss in not referring
Thiago to his work (or indeed the work of Janet Bord or Hilary
Evans).

I agree with most of what Jerry says above, aside from his
dismissal of Jacques Vallee's writings on this as being "close
to worthless" (In what sense, Jerry?). I accept that there's a
danger of being too simplistic about correlations.

My previous post pointed out two motifs common to fairy
encounters and alien abduction reports, namely time relativity
and changelings/hybrids.

Jerry points out that dancing is a common theme in fairy
encounters. I can't recall this having come up at all in the
abduction literature. Food and drink is a theme of many fairy
encounters, but does not feature much in the abduction
literature. It crops up more in contactee encounters though, and
this raises again the question of whether we are dealing with
fundamentally different events, or essentially the same event,
but perceived in different ways, according to the knowledge and
belief system of the witness, and prevailing cultural factors.

None of this answers Jerry's question about whether experiences
are necessarily events. I see this as essentially a
philosophical question, though one that gets to the heart of the
whole contactee/abductee/experiencer mystery. It reminds me of
something the late Ralph Noyes said at a Society for Psychical
Research meeting, when he was becoming frustrated with debates
over the use of the word "real", and proposed that it should be
avoided where possible, in the context of parapsychological
research.

Best wishes,

Nick Pope








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                         Re: UFOs & Fairies? - Pope

From: Nick Pope <nick.nul>
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 23:32:50 -0000
Fwd Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 08:52:37 -0500
Subject: Re: UFOs & Fairies? - Pope


>From: John Novak <john.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 13:05:44 -0800
>Subject: Re: UFOs & Fairies?

>>From: Nick Pope <nick.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 17:23:31 -0000
>>Subject: Re: UFOs & Fairies?

>>>From: Thiago Luiz Ticchetti <thiagolt.nul>
>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 15:51:15 -0300
>>>Subject: UFOs & Fairies?

>>>I would like to know if anyone has information about the
>>>correlation between UFOs and fairies, mythology, legends,
>>>folklore and so on.

<snip>

>>To cite an example from my own casefiles, I was working with an
>>abductee who had deliberately not spoken to her young son about
>>her experiences. She reported to me that one day the babysitter
>>had asked the boy if he wished to sleep in the playroom at the
>>top of the stairs, where he sometimes slept. The child's reply
>>was as follows:

>>"I don't want to sleep in that room. If I do, the bad fairies
>>will come and take me away."

>Hi Nick & others,

>I am wondering if you are at liberty to tell if the child you
>mentioned had any kind of "abnormalities" with his brain.

>I have Temporal Lobe Epilepsy, effecting the pineal gland. It
>was due to a brain injury when I was 14. However, in my own
>research and study, it seems my pineal has been "mis-firing"
>from an even earlier age, though it didn't show up as epilepsy
>until a few days after the injury.

>If you've read anything I have written here or anywhere else,
>you might know that I was an active part of James Gilliland's
>ECETI for years. While there, I experienced all manner of, not
>just UFO, but other paranormal activity that I just don't know
>how to fully explain. I have had extremely bizarre experiences
>all my life. Most times, I can write off the strangeness to
>over-active brain activity taking place.

>I do know that because of the nature of the temporal lobe
>activity I experience, I am at somewhat of a disadvantage when
>trying to give first hand accounts of UFO and paranormal
>experiences. However, enough has happened that takes place to me
>and other people around me to make me wonder if it isn't just my
>temporal lobes lighting up. It seems something else is going on,
>especially in the case of UFOs that were seen and sometimes
>filmed by large groups.

>Those out there who have seen these things for themselves come away
>completely different. It is a life altering experience and very
>emotional, which then gives direct correlation, I would think, to
>these experiences and high temporal lobe activity, much the way the
>"religious" or ecstatic experience does as current research is showing
>with NDE and drug induced tests.

>I guess the logical question here would be, has there been any
>research to this end? Is there a way that technology can cause
>an increase in temporal lobe activity? If it is fairly easy to
>do with electronic or magnetic means, then it would seem to me
>that our current grip on reality is tenuous at best and we are
>at the liberty of any higher technology or natural force that
>can manipulate this.

John,

To answer your first question, I'm not aware that the child has
any abnormal medical condition of the type you describe. But
it's my policy not to work with child abductees, and this only
came up in the margins of my work with the child's mother, with
whom I'm still in occasional contact.

On your second question, Michael Persinger has done some
experimental work where he delivers magnetic field pulses to the
brain, firing the temporal lobes, trying to create some of the
effects commonly reported in alien abductions. Sue Blackmore
tried this during the filming of a 1994 documentary for
"Horizon", the prestigious BBC2 science series. While she
reported experiencing a strange pulling sensation, coupled with
strong feelings of anger and fear, there were no UFOs, no
entities, and none of the detailed narrative or motifs that crop
up in alien abduction accounts.

Though they come at it from different angles, researchers such
as Paul Devereux and Albert Budden have done work that is
relevant to your question.


Best wishes,

Nick Pope








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                        Re: The Illuminati - Maccabee

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 18:43:21 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 08:53:52 -0500
Subject: Re: The Illuminati - Maccabee


>From: Robert Gates <RGates8254.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 02:12:13 EST
>Subject: Re: The Illuminati

>>From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
>>Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 13:34:22 EST
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Subject: Re: The Illuminati

<snip>

>This has been my point with UFOs over the years. Instead of
>wasting time trying to get skeptibunkers to give the evidence a
>fair shake; instead of wasting time to get some university on
>the band wagon to do some scientific study, we within the UFO
>field need to just go out and do it ourselves and not worry
>about whether so called "main stream science" will get on board.

Fortunately, that is exactly what some of us have been doing.








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                    Re: Hey I Made A Boo-Boo! - Maccabee

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 18:48:53 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 08:55:47 -0500
Subject: Re: Hey I Made A Boo-Boo! - Maccabee


>From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 02:17:29 EST
>Subject: Hey I Made A Boo-Boo!

>Great Ceasar's Ghost!

>I've actually made a boo-boo!

>My credibility and reputation are now destroyed beyond all
>recognition!

>No one will speak to me, no one will play baseball with me ever
>again all because I made a boo-boo.

<snip>

>Yet in this field of UFO research and the inevitable paranormal
>venue, I've run into people so danged stubborn that to get them
>to see things from another viewpoint is as tough as trying to
>find a customer support center that speaks english.

<snip>

>The danger comes from those who intentionally set out to
>deceive. Also from those who made an honest error, discovered so
>and didn't own up to it. Sometimes I think the latter is the
>most harmful.

>To me a perfect man is a man who is honorable and courageous
>enough to himself and others to admit he has made an error.
>It's the first step to getting it right.

>So to heck with what others say unless it's constructive to the
>overall agenda. The wiseacre naysayers and their actions, either
>skeptic or believer only validate their insecurities and ill
>intentions.

>So go out and knock over a cup of soda. Call your dog or cat by
>the wrong name. Make a mistake and giggle at yourself. It can be
>therapeutic and remind you it's only as serious as your fears
>makes it so.

Stop! Stop!

I can't take this any more. You're being too logical! Too...
'forgiving'!

Where is the fun in that?







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   Mar > Mar 3

                  CI: JPL: What to Expect And The Aftermath

From: Mac Tonnies <macbot.nul>
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 15:52:47 -0800 (PST)
Fwd Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 08:58:26 -0500
Subject: CI: JPL: What to Expect And The Aftermath


Cydonian Imperative
3-2-04

JPL: What To Expect
by Mac Tonnies

[I've posted my predictions for JPL's Mars press conference -
 and a link to the conference's conclusions - on the Cydonian
Imperative site (page 47), where they probably belonged
originally. I think my speculations regarding JPL's perrennial
hesitancy were shown to be well-founded. But you be the judge. -
-Mac]

See: http://www.mactonnies.com/cydonia.html (page 47)


From my weblog, Posthuman Blues:

I've received a lot of email about JPL's big Mars press
conference. People are getting excited. In Space.com's words,
"something wonderful" will likely be revealed. Many expect JPL
to come clean regarding some of the curiously fossil-like
formations seen under the Opportunity rover's microscope. Others
expect - at the least - confirmation of liquid water.

I'm skeptical. Public interest in the Mars rovers has been
steadily waning since Spirit landed in early January. JPL direly
needs one of its patented staged "news" conferences to ensure
that the rovers aren't totally forgotten. As I've written in
Meta Research Bulletin and elsewhere, acknowledging a life-
friendly Martian environment is academic suicide for JPL
geologists, whose continued research hinges on Mars being barren
and lifeless.

So I expect the conference to offer the same speculations JPL
has been tirelessly masticating since the Viking missions.
Specifically, the possibility of water in Mars' remote
geological past. Or maybe - if we're lucky - the possibility of
water in Mars' relatively recent past. Of course, "recent" will
mean something like ten million years ago, but we'll still be
expected to gape in amazement at the sheer wonder of it all.

Reality, however, appears to defy JPL's arid rhetoric. Strong
evidence suggests liquid water on Mars right now. Will JPL dare
admit it? Consider what's at stake. Conceding that Mars has the
chemistry necessary for life is tantamount to an open invitation
for microbiologists to join JPL's zealously guarded ranks. For
scientists supposedly enamored of "searching for life" on the
Red Planet, the JPL team has always been careful to exclude the
life sciences from its post-Viking Mars ventures.

Neither of the MER rovers has any life-detection instrumentation
whatsoever. Plans for future probes also carefully exclude
instruments with the potential to tell us anything conclusive
regarding the prospect of life. For far too long, Mars science
has been the stuff of lofty peer-reviewed journals and endless
debate. In this light, conclusive findings are the last thing
JPL wants; best to keep Mars exploration enigmatic and sketchy
so the academic press can continue to spew forth its never-
 ending post-hoc scenarios. After all, there's grant money on
the line, careers to maintain. And so biologists - the very
people equipped to lead a "search for life" on another world -
 are kept at the gates like so many annoying trespassers, forced
to grapple with JPL's predigested geological musings.

There's an apt saying that sums up JPL's myopia: "When the only
tool you have is a hammer, everything looks like nails." So it
is with Mars. When all you have is a rock abrasion tool and a
proton spectrometer, everything looks like... rocks.

-end-

=====
Mac Tonnies (macbot.nul)

Explore MTVI @ http://www.mactonnies.com

Posthuman Blues: http://posthumanblues.blogspot.com (daily blog)

"After the Martian Apocalypse": in bookstores July, 2004
http://www.mactonnies.com/atma.html








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   Mar > Mar 3

                               Cartnic Effect

From: Barry Taylor <stingray.nul>
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 11:13:24 +1100
Fwd Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 09:00:12 -0500
Subject: Cartnic Effect


Hello List members,

Proposal for new terminology to be used for descriptive purposes
when describing "the flight characteristics of the flight and
direction change of groups of UFOs".

While observing numerous UFO activity during the 1990's, there
was one important observation that still intrigues me. This is
the observation of groups of UFO (usually surrounded with a
white haze) that during their flight appeared to be moving as if
with the "same mind".

We are all aware of the flight characteristics of a flock of
birds and schools of fish that are closely grouped together, and
change direction simultaneously while maintaining the close
group formation. This effect seems to indicate that each bird or
fish is "tuned into" some type of "group awareness" enabling
them to react to direction change instantly. Not one bird or
fish takes a different direction or interrupts the intention of
the group as a whole. Total control of the group is maintained.

Unlike herds of animals quickly moving and changing direction,
who seem to exhibit a "follow the leader" type of awareness.
Humans fall under this category also. This effect indicates an
"individual awareness" and one individual can disrupt and
confuse the entire group if hesitation or different direction is
taken.

I am at this point in time, unaware of a specific terminology
that accurately describes the effect observed of birds and fish
moving as if with the "same mind". This same effect is
associated with the flight of groups of UFO's.

I propose that this effect of "group awareness of the same mind"
be called the "CARTNIC EFFECT".

Why "Cartnic Effect"?

C = Close
A = Association
R = Reaction
T = To
N = Natures
I = Instinctive
C = Control

This effect is a real one, and appears to be a "natural"
awareness not only used in Nature but also used by the UFO. It
could be directly linked to survival and self preservation
(safety) of the overall group.

Preservation and reduced energy requirements of the individual
when flying in group formation is another possibility.
Scientists state that migrating birds when flying in "V"
formation conserve 71% of their energy during their migration
flight. This could well also apply to the UFO. An "exchange" of
energy in UFO groups is another theory I am working on, and may
post that later.

I ask you to think about the use of the above terminology
proposal and see its use when describing, cataloguing,
investigating, reporting and writing about such an effect.

Regards,

Barry Taylor
UFO Researcher
Australia.

http://www.theozfactor.cjb.net








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               Re: Tracing The Flow Of The Gulf Breeze Money -

From: Aaron LeClair <force.nul>
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 20:28:54 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 09:08:18 -0500
Subject: Re: Tracing The Flow Of The Gulf Breeze Money -


>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 10:44:45 -0500
>Subject: Re: Tracing The Flow Of The Gulf Breeze Money

<snip>

I find the sept 8th 8:09 pm 1991 video of a "Bubba"-like object
taken in Gulf Breeze interesting. There is a lot of people that
can be heard on the tape. One person sounds like Ed W. himself,
though I do not know this for a fact. I mention it, to see if
anyone on the list knows wether or not he was present during
this event. There are loads more videos and pics that I find
baffling. Like the live news team capture of a ufo etc.

The video can be seen at:

http://www.ufotheatre.com

last I checked. Nearly everyone on the List has seen it no
doubt, but just in case you haven't, or for the archive readers,
you can check the Bubba vid out there, or I can send you the vid
as an attachment (if you are a Lister). The file is quite large
tho'.

Now, on to Ed's pics and vids. I am not convinced either way
about Ed. I think there is evidence that points in both
directions. I would indeed be interested in any links or
refereces anyone has of any debunking attempts that show a
double exposure with the same (or similar camera) that can reach
the same results as the following pics found  in Ufo abductions
in Gulf Breeze: (all photos mentioned are found in same book)

Photo 1. Where The Object is partly covered by a tree.

Photo 19
Road shot. Photo

Photo 11 Where the object has a beam of light coming out of the
bottom.

Also, I would like to know of any explainations of the daytime
vid of "Bubba" from Ed, through his work window which casts a
shadow.

I'm aware of the double exposure attempt at demonstrating how
one could hoax Ed's pics found in the book "Ufo Abductions Gulf
Breeze". However, the debunker's attempt does'nt address the
issues in the above mentioned photos above.

As a side note: I read through Kenny's interview with Jerry
Black:

http://home.fuse.net/ufo/JBLACK.html

I see lots of speculation and opinions that JB draws his
conclusions from, in turn they have no provable bases in fact.
He also sets up speculations, in which is hard to disprove. I
can give more details if people are interested.

As I read, I wondered if it occured to him, the fact that Ed is
paying lots of money for analysis, might as easily be said to
add credence to his case, just as much credence as he (JB) is
suggesting in making reference to Bruce and MUFON being bought.
Not his exact words maybe, but you can read and see if you agree
with my paraphrasing

http://home.fuse.net/ufo/JBLACK.html

What hoaxer spends loads of money on a variety of analysis?
Miere? Adamski? To my knowledge this would be a rarity. Rarity
doesn't prove it can't be, however, I have trouble concluding
that Bruce and MUFON have been bought when one derives that
conclusion, on the sole bases that money changed hands. Granted,
JB's take is as good as the one I mentioned, but I felt it
needed to be thrown out on the table.

Readers who aren't familiar with Hyzer's explanations
may see:

http://www.skiesare.demon.co.uk/b-or-b.htm

If anyone knows a better source, please post, or send to me.
Thanks. If I have the time, I will give some of my thoughts on
to Hyzer's conclusions. Tho, as Bruce said, it probably won't
change anyone's mind. Might be nice to have in the archives
though, so we'll see.







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   Mar > Mar 3

                        Re: The Illuminati - Friedman

From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul>
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 21:41:51 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 14:41:35 -0500
Subject: Re: The Illuminati - Friedman


>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 07:57:52 -0800
>Subject: Re: The Illuminati

>>From: Robert Gates <RGates8254.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 02:12:13 EST
>>Subject: Re: The Illuminati
>
>>>From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
>>>Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 13:34:22 EST
>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>Subject: Re: The Illuminati

>>>>From: Robert Gates <RGates8254.nul>
>>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>>Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 23:37:22 EST
>>>>Subject: Re: The Illuminati

><snip>

>>IMO people will do the same thing if the govt admitted that UFOs
>>exist. For a day or two it would be headline news; the people as
>>a whole would say something about gee how interesting and words
>>along the lines of "Well I knew all the time... I just never said
>>in public. Then the media would move back to the next smoking
>>dead body story, or the latest from the Michael Jackson trial.

>Pardon the the interjection, but I wanted to point out that the
>government "doesn't deny the existence of UFOs"; their official
>position is:

>(1) no UFO reported, investigated, and evaluated by the Air
>Force was ever a threat to our national security;

>(2) there was no evidence submitted to, or discovered by, the
>Air Force that sightings categorized as "unidentified"
>represented technological developments or principles beyond the
>range of modern scientific knowledge; and

>(3) there was no evidence indicating that sightings categorized
>as "unidentified" were extraterrestrial vehicles.

>(Conclusion of Project Blue Book).


Frank is absolutely right. I pointed out the gross
misrepresentation of these claims in a five page letter to an
Air Force Spokesman who had sent them to a number of
congressman. No response of course... as I noted in TOP
SECRET/MAJIC.

What, if any, of the functions in item one were performed by
somebody other than the Air Force such as the CIA, NRO, NSA,
MJ-12?

Penguins in Antarctica are not a threat to National security,
but are certainly real.

I worked on fission and fusion rockets. They are not beyond the
range of our knowledge... we certainly haven't built any fusion
systems yet.

Etc., etc.


Stan Friedman








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               Re: racing The Flow Of The Gulf Breeze Money -

From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul>
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 21:59:29 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 14:44:03 -0500
Subject: Re: racing The Flow Of The Gulf Breeze Money -


>From: Kenny Young <ufo.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 19:19:58 -0500
>Subject: Re: Tracing The Flow Of The Gulf Breeze Money

>>From: Robert Gates <RGates8254.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 00:40:06 EST
>>Subject: Re: Tracing The Flow Of The Gulf Breeze Money

>>Quite honestly I am still waiting for the evidence of these
>>allegations and all I have heard is stories and tales. At this
>>point Ed Walters pictures are more credible then tales and
>>allegations about MUFON and Bruce M.

<snip>

>Dr. Maccabee has responded to things on this List before, mostly
>trying to resort to an attempted technical discussion with
>fogged non-specifics, and I understand why he wants the issue to
>be dropped and to "let's move on, please." I would want to get
>away from all that too if I were in those shoes.

>Sorry to be blowing my steam here, Robert, I don't mean to be
>taking it out on you but I am discouraged with this thing called
>Ufology right now, disgusted with the sorry caliber of
>space-nuts drawn to this subject and the snake-oil salesmen who
>'rule the roost' as elder statesmen in this field. Darn it all
>I'm burnt out on this whole thing and just don't know where to
>go from here.


Sorry Kenny, but any time there is a choice between Jerry Black
and Bruce Maccabee, I will go with Bruce any time based on his
far more careful, detailed, objective explanations for any
conclusion he has reached in the past.

Science, not shouting, is Bruce's approach.


Stan Friedman









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                        Re: The Illuminati - Stanford

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 21:38:06 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 14:46:17 -0500
Subject: Re: The Illuminati - Stanford


>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 07:57:52 -0800
>Subject: Re: The Illuminati

<snip>

>Pardon the the interjection, but I wanted to point out that the
>government "doesn't deny the existence of UFOs"; their official
>position is:

>(1) no UFO reported, investigated, and evaluated by the Air
>Force was ever a threat to our national security;

>(2) there was no evidence submitted to, or discovered by, the
>Air Force that sightings categorized as "unidentified"
>represented technological developments or principles beyond the
>range of modern scientific knowledge; and

>(3) there was no evidence indicating that sightings categorized
>as "unidentified" were extraterrestrial vehicles.

>(Conclusion of Project Blue Book).

As for that (3), of course if they know it is, for example, an
extraterrestrial vehicle, it is not unidentified, by definition,
is it? Such are the semantic games officialdom plays.

May I share some memories, such as below, with you before
leaving this list soon?

What we call UFOs are taken very seriously by the USAF, but they
don't call them UFOs. That's why, when my project had its
laboratories operative in the hill country northwest of Austin,
Texas, Air Force Intelligence at Bergstrom Air Force Base in
Austin (subsequently closed in the massive base closures some
years ago) called our executive offices in town and tried to get
permission from me for a sizeable group of intelligence officers
to have a guided tour of our 400-acre optical and electronic
facilities (two lab buildings) site.

More interestingly to you, perhaps, is the fact that during that
call, Bergstrom Intelligence tried to get an agreement from me
to call a 'hotline' number at their command post for them to
scramble their F-4 Phantom reconnaissance aircraft, should we
have a sighting.

I never seriously considered calling the command post because
scrambling of the F-4 Phantoms could cause a UFO to leave the
area before we could use our extensive array of equipment, but
intelligence at Bergstrom had enough confidence in our ability
to distinguish a bona-fide 'UFO' from conventional aircraft,
natural phenomena, etc., as to grant me the power to initiate a
scramble based on my personal discretion. Note that it costs a
lot of money to scramble jet aircraft, which is exactly what the
intelligence officer making the proposal promised they would do
in response to any call from me, day or night, 24 hours per day,
365 days per year. They had thoroughly investigated me, my
background, and my project and had good reason to trust our
ability to distinguish a bona-fide UFO from more prosaic things.

In fact, Air Force Intelligence at Bergstrom had known of me
since my sighting of a blue-white, cigar-shaped UFO above the
area of the Mansfield Dam outside Austin, back on June 24, 1967,
which as a result of their investigation became one of the final
cases listed as "unidentified" in official Bluebook files.
(Check that for yourself at:

http://www.cufos.org/Comprehevnsive%20Catalog%20of%201,500%20Project%20BB%20UFO%
20Unknows.pdf )

Can I prove what I just said about the request made by
Intelligence at Bergstrom AFB to have me call their command post
and scramble multiple F-4s? Bet on it. I can and will, when, in
a forthcoming publication, I publish text of the recorded
conversation with the Air Force intelligence officer making the
request. Can I give the date, the time, the name, the rank of
the intelligence officer, and even the secret number into the
Bergstrom command post to scramble jets, etc? Bet on that, too.

Once that is published, any skeptic claiming that the USAF did
not take UFOs seriously, had better be able to explain the plea
Bergstrom AFB Intelligence made to me and my project. My finger,
de facto, was on the scramble button. I am proud of the trust
that they placed in me.

Would I have been a 'traitor' to Ufology to have 'pressed' that
button? I don't think so. Certainly, it would have been fun.
Wow! What a thrill that might have been, had I done so.


Ray Stanford

"You know my method. It is founded upon the observance of
trifles." -- Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery








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   Mar > Mar 3

                 Re: JPL/NASA's Ho Hum Conference - Lehmberg

From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg.nul>
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 07:53:17 -0600
Fwd Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 14:48:05 -0500
Subject: Re: JPL/NASA's Ho Hum Conference - Lehmberg


>From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 16:23:59 -0600
>Subject: Re: JPL/NASA's Ho Hum Conference

>>From: Chaz Stuart <Daydisk2.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 14:42:34 -0500 (EST)
>>Subject: JPL/NASA's Ho Hum Conference

>>Tue, Mar 2, 2004, 2:15pm

>>Wow! They just announced that they believe water once existed on
>>Mars! Gee! We didn't know this did we?

>>Maybe in a few more years they'll tell us that there still is
>>water there!

>First they run over the bunny and now this. And that tiny Mars
>screw worm fossil. Oh, well. One baby step at a time, I guess,
>so people don't run screaming into the streets in a panic to
>find out there used to be a little worm on Mars.


It's the "erosion factor" that's the issue. The
debunker/skeptybunky/CSICOPian credulity castle is built on a
critical grade on a bad (contrived) foundation (...that humanity
is God's favorite and chosen supreme?), and tiny worms on Mars
weakens the down slope footings... If it gives an inch it starts
an inexorable slide to a well earned oblivion.

The status quo remains important to the ones most advantaged by
its maintenance... I say let it slide. If it _can_ fall it
probably should... then we can build a better castle.

Additionally, it's not the accepting masses that will cause the
problems, but those hanging desperately on to the old outdated
paradigms. Kids born after full disclosure will have known
nothing else... they'll be fine. It's going to happen
eventually. The more fierce out denial of it, the greater our
travail...


Lehmberg.nul

EXPLORE "AlienViewGroup" at its HostPros URL.
http://www.alienview.net


JOHN FORD RESTORATION FUND -- John will be released eventually.
He'll need a tax free cash stake to get on his feet. Let's put
one together for him; the bigger it is -- the more attention he
gets. It could have been you. E-mail for detail. $450.00 pledged
-- $200.00 collected!

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see
from afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, scourged by
the scabrously specious scurrilous.








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   Mar > Mar 3

                     Re: Filer's Files #10-2004 - Shell

From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
Date: Wed,  3 Mar 2004 08:23:07 -0600
Fwd Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 14:49:37 -0500
Subject: Re: Filer's Files #10-2004 - Shell


>From: Aaron LeClair <force.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 16:40:22 -0500
>Subject: Re: Filer's Files #10-2004

>Anyone know Jeff Rense personally? I don't, but been wondering
>why he has Filer on so much...

>Hurts the credibility of his show I would imagine.

Not any more than the constant barrage of veiled anti-Semitic
stuff jamming his website. Used to be Rense was a relatively
decent source of UFO-related info, but now the noise has
definitely buried the signal.








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                  Mystery Over Red Planet Was A Wet Planet

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 06:33:54 -0800
Fwd Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 14:50:38 -0500
Subject: Mystery Over Red Planet Was A Wet Planet


Source: The Age

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/03/03/1078295445809.html


March 4, 2004


Mystery over - Red Planet was a wet planet

By Stephen Cauchi
Science Reporter

Decades of speculation on whether Mars once had life-sustaining
water ended yesterday as NASA announced that the landing site of
its rover, Opportunity, used to be "soaking wet".

Mission scientists told a press conference at NASA headquarters
in Washington that two weeks of intensive rock study by
Opportunity unambiguously pointed to a "persistently wet
environment that could possibly have been hospitable to life".

The historic announcement had been hotly anticipated for the past
week as scientists pored over Opportunity's analysis of Martian
rocks, especially a layered specimen called El Capitan.

"Were these rocks acted upon, were they altered by liquid water?
The answer to that question is, definitely, yes," said Steve
Squyres, the principal investigator for Opportunity's science
payload.

"Liquid water once flowed through these rocks. It changed their
texture and it changed their chemistry... this was a ground water
environment that would have been suitable for life. That doesn't
mean that life was there. We don't know that."

Several lines of evidence pointed to the conclusion, scientists
said. These included the rocks' distinctive layering and
pockmarked indentations.

"This distinctive texture is familiar to geologists as the sites
where crystals of salt minerals form within rocks that sit in
briny water," NASA said.

Sulphate salts were also found. According to NASA, "rocks with as
much salt as this Mars rock either have formed in water or, after
formation, have been highly altered by long exposures to water".

The rover also found jarosite, an iron-sulphate mineral pointing
to "an acidic lake or acidic hot springs environment".

Opportunity landed on Mars on January 25 in the Meridiani Planum
region, selected because it is rich in a mineral - grey hematite
- that usually forms in water. Its twin, Spirit, is on the
opposite side of the planet in Gusev crater, which may have been
a lake.

Scientist have long suspected that the Red Planet was at least
partly blue because of distinctive erosion patterns that seem to
have been carved by flowing water.

NASA did not speculate when the water existed, why it vanished or
where it went. Mars may still have water, albeit underground in
reservoirs, but its surface is totally dry. It also has frozen
water mixed with frozen carbon dioxide, or dry ice, in its polar
caps.

Monash University geosciences lecturer Marion Anderson, a member
of the committee that selected Opportunity's landing site, said
the news was "better than what we could have hoped for".

By checking the rock layering, Opportunity will investigate if a
lake once existed at the site or if hot water seeped to the
surface from underground, she said.

"These are pretty much the only two (scenarios) that would give
the structures that we're seeing on these rocks," she said. "In
the next 10 days, Opportunity will see which of these two is what
happened."

Ms Anderson said Meridiani Planum would be a "prime target" for
future Mars landers looking for evidence of past Martian life.
"It gives us more of a reason to look for life than ever before.
If Beagle 2 had survived it might have given us that answer, but
it didn't."

NASA scientists agree. "It is clear that we are going to have to
do a sample return (mission)," NASA administrator Ed Weiler said.

A critic of the theory that Mars once had water, Nick Hoffman of
Melbourne University, conceded the findings "absolutely
guaranteed there was water on Mars".

"I'll eat one slice of humble pie on this one," he said.

Dr Hoffman said he believed the rocks were wet because of water
seeping from the ground, not because they were in a lake.

He said the water may have existed as long ago as 3.5 billion
years, and probably in many places. "There was water seeping out
of the ground just about everywhere. There was a lot of water.
It's very exciting."










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   Mar > Mar 3

                 Fighter Pilot Revealed As Lord Of The Ring

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 06:47:05 -0800
Fwd Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 14:51:30 -0500
Subject: Fighter Pilot Revealed As Lord Of The Ring



Source: The Telegraph

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/03/03/nring03.xml&sShe
et=/news/2004/03/03/ixhome.html

03/03/2004

Fighter pilot revealed as lord of the ring

By David Sapsted

The mystery was solved last night over the cause of a two-mile,
near perfect 'O' shape that appeared 30,000ft above East Anglia.

After a day when many people believed they had seen a UFO and
when a local newspaper speculated that the ring was a halo
created by the refraction of sunlight through ice crystals, the
explanation turned out to be rather more prosaic.

The cause was an American air force F15 fighter jet. And it was
on a training flight - not, as many people in the region had
believed, involved in a stunt to publicise the 11 Oscars won by
the latest Lord of the Rings film. Many thousands of people
witnessed the formation of the ring - or rings, according to
some accounts - late on Monday afternoon.

Mike Easton, 50, a chartered surveyor, photographed the
phenomenon as it formed due west of his home at Blofield,
Norfolk. "It was a nice sunset so I stuck my head out of the
window and saw this amazing circle. It was pretty impressive,"
said Mr Easton.

Initially it was thought that a Tornado jet from RAF Marham,
north Norfolk, or a Jaguar from RAF Coltishall, near Norwich,
could have been responsible. But both bases said their aircraft
were not involved.

Then, late yesterday, a USAF spokesman at Lakenheath, Suffolk,
said one of its F15s was responsible while carrying out "a
routine manoeuvre".

Lt Ed Ekpoudom said: "The pilot said he was just doing a
manoeuvre at 33,000ft at around sunset when the conditions were
conducive for a vapour trail to form. He is surprised to hear
how it appeared from the ground."









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   Mar > Mar 3

                        Bush & Cheney Did In Martians

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 06:51:28 -0800
Fwd Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 16:16:06 -0500
Subject: Bush & Cheney Did In Martians


Source: Rush Limbaugh

http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/site_030204/content/illustrating.guest.ht
ml

March 2, 2004


Bush & Cheney Did In Martians

NASA says that Mars was once wet enough to sustain life, but
there's no life up there now. There's a lesson here. Something
had to happen. Gay marriage, or some other combination of moral
decay must've done them in.

The libs just have to find life somewhere else, and it has to be
more advanced than ours. We are nothing but a bunch of schlubs.
We are rudimentary simpletons, as proven by our tendency to war
and fight with one another. Have you ever noticed that when
liberals imagine life elsewhere, it's always smarter than we
are? It's always more brilliant, because they can get here but
we can't get there?

Liberals like Spielberg make these UFO movies, and guess where
they land? They land in trailer parks! If you are an advanced
civilization why wouldn't you land at the Smithsonian? I'm
fascinated if there is or was life up there, but James Michener
wrote a great book called "Space." Based on what was known about
the universe back in the 70s when the book came out, the
conclusion was there may not be life elsewhere. Our earth may be
so unique that the odds may be against life being anywhere else.
It was controversial at the time, and it is still controversial
now.

Ladies and gentlemen, it may not have been gay marriage that did
in the Martians. There once were Martians. We now know because
NASA is telling us there's enough water up there to have
sustained life. What could have happened? What could have caused
the end of a truly superior and advanced civilization, one that
had to previously occupy Mars to where it's now just basically a
Dust Bowl? It had to be Halliburton or something like the Bush
administration on Mars that used up all the resources, trying to
advance their portfolios.

Big business did in the Martians. If we can find the Martian
stock market we'll find the answer. They didn't conserve, save
the trees, save the natural, pristine tundra, and used up all
the water -- probably while drilling for oil. It won't be long
before this theory is advanced, at DemocratUnderground or some
Howard Dean site, and it won't be long before John Kerry says
Bush did not act soon enough to send troops to Mars to save the
Martians. Mark my words.










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   Mar > Mar 3

                          NASA - Time For A Change

From: Al Baier <abaier.nul>
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 13:05:52 -0600
Fwd Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 16:17:47 -0500
Subject: NASA - Time For A Change



Listerions:

What has NASA really done? After 30+ years, and billions of
dollars, we have a totally useless space station, a dangerously
unsafe shuttle fleet, and yet another rover mission. After the
Apollo missions (NASA's only really impressive achievement),
they lost their direction. We should have people walking on Mars
by now. Instead, we have another entrenched government
bureaucracy, whose only apparent goal is to secure next year's
funding. Gee, I wonder when the next NASA budget comes up for
renewal?

Questions:

1. Why aren't there life-detecting devices on the rover
missions?

2. Why is the color balance drastically skewed to red on all
Mars photos?

3. Why is the Cydonia region carefully ignored?

We have to pull the plug on NASA, reorganization just isn't
going to do it.

We have to get good, solid, PUBLIC discussions going about how
we should fund planetary exploration. We certainly don't need
the scientific/research establishment to tell us how to do it.

Our tax dollars are not at work at NASA.

Predictions (for the record):

1. Liquid water exists on Mars now.

2. Microbial life, and forms up to lichens/fungi exist on Mars
now.

3. Their DNA will match that of earthly forms.

4. Evidence of intelligent life in Mars' past will be proved (at
the rate things are going, probably not in my lifetime).

End of Rant

and I still don't feel any better,

Albert G.









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   Mar > Mar 3

                     Pilot's Acrobatics Captured On Film

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 06:54:24 -0800
Fwd Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 16:19:53 -0500
Subject: Pilot's Acrobatics Captured On Film


Source: Evening News 24

http://www.eveningnews24.co.uk/content/News/story.asp?datetime=02+Mar+2004+14%3A
48&tbrand=ENOnline&tCategory=NEWS&category=News&brand=ENOnline&itemid=NOED02+Mar
+2004+14%3A48%3A48%3A063

March 2, 2004

Pilot's acrobatics captured on film

JUST like the other Lord of the Rings, this was a truly award-
winning performance.

Families across south Norfolk and Suffolk looking up at the
clear skies yesterday evening would have caught a glimpse of
this splendid circle.

Maybe it could have been mistaken for a UFO or another eerie
apparition, but the roar of the jet engines above gave the game
away that this was a pilot embarking on some high-level
artistry.

It took the pilot several attempts to create the perfect circle.
On the first few occasions one side of the vapour trail forming
the shape would fade away before the other had been successfully
completed.

The circle could be clearly seen in the skies above Norwich, but
rail commuters standing out on the platform at Ipswich station
and families in Framsden, near Woodbridge, Suffolk, also caught
a glimpse.

A number of photographers contacted the Evening News's offices
in Rouen Road to let us know about this amazing picture.

Mike Easton, took a picture from his garden at Danesbower Close,
Blofield.

He said: "I looked out of my window and saw this amazing shape
in the sky, which looked like it had been created by a fighter
jet, and decided to take a few pictures of it. The circular
shape was pretty impressive."

But who created the circle? A spokeswoman for RAF Marham today
said it could have been one of their pilots.

"We did have aircraft airborne over that area doing operations
and they could have made circles like that," she said. "But we
can't say for definite because we don't know if RAF Coltishall
were flying at the same time as well."

No-one from RAF Coltishall was available for comment.










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   Mar > Mar 3

                  Re: JPL/NASA's Ho Hum Conference - Kaeser

From: Steven Kaeser <steve.nul>
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 10:41:53 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 16:20:51 -0500
Subject: Re: JPL/NASA's Ho Hum Conference - Kaeser


>From: Mac Tonnies <macbot.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 15:05:19 -0800 (PST)
>Subject: Re: JPL/NASA's Ho Hum Conference

<snip>

>Aside from a few specifics gathered by Opportunity, JPL merely
>reiterated what it's been saying since the Mariner project.
>That was in the 1960s.

Agreed. But, I think those "few specifics" are what they're
excited about. There will still be scientists who claim these
are flawed conclusions, but perhaps fewer than would have been
the case a week ago.


Steve








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                         Re: The Illuminati - Kaeser

From: Steven Kaeser <steve.nul>
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 10:54:14 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 16:21:59 -0500
Subject: Re: The Illuminati - Kaeser


>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 18:43:21 -0500
>Subject: Re: The Illuminati

>>From: Robert Gates <RGates8254.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 02:12:13 EST
>>Subject: Re: The Illuminati

>>>From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
>>>Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 13:34:22 EST
>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>Subject: Re: The Illuminati

><snip>

>>This has been my point with UFOs over the years. Instead of
>>wasting time trying to get skeptibunkers to give the evidence a
>>fair shake; instead of wasting time to get some university on
>>the band wagon to do some scientific study, we within the UFO
>>field need to just go out and do it ourselves and not worry
>>about whether so called "main stream science" will get on board.

>Fortunately, that is exactly what some of us have been doing.

Are we defining everyone who isn't already a part of the UFO
community a "skeptibunker"? The field has been doing this on its
own for 50 years, but I'm not sure that much has been
accomplished. Somehow we have to reach out to mainstream
science, and we need to do it differently than it's been done in
the past.


Steve








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   Mar > Mar 3

                         Re: UFOs & Fairies? - Clark

From: Jerome Clark <jkclark.nul>
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 10:45:08 -0600
Fwd Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 16:23:45 -0500
Subject: Re: UFOs & Fairies? - Clark


>From: Nick Pope <nick.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 23:31:14 -0000
>Subject: Re: UFOs & Fairies?

>>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 13:36:05 -0600
>>Subject: Re: UFOs & Fairies?

<snip>

Hi, Nick,

>>In my opinion Vallee's writings on the alleged correlation
>>between fairies and UFO occupants are close to worthless. I will
>>give him credit, however, at least for opening the discussion.

>>I also have written on the subject, showing there are
>>correlations but not in any simplistic, one-to-one sense. The
>>question is not so much whether supernatural entities exist -
>>an unanswerable one - as whether we can experience them, and
>>how all of this relates to the issues ufologists confront (e.g.,
>>are experiences necessarily events?).

>I agree with most of what Jerry says above, aside from his
>dismissal of Jacques Vallee's writings on this as being "close
>to worthless" (In what sense, Jerry?).

My problem with Vallee's coverage is severalfold, but
the core difficulty from my point of view is that it's offered in
service to an occult worldview, which I judge to be unhelpful,
question-begging, and little more than magical thinking.

I do, however, wish to stress that Vallee deserves credit for
bringing this issue into the discussion. That makes him sort of
like the explorer who's the first one to get to the undiscovered
country. It may be churlish of the rest of us to complain too
much if he doesn't get the map quite right.

>None of this answers Jerry's question about whether experiences
>are necessarily events. I see this as essentially a
>philosophical question, though one that gets to the heart of the
>whole contactee/abductee/experiencer mystery. It reminds me of
>something the late Ralph Noyes said at a Society for Psychical
>Research meeting, when he was becoming frustrated with debates
>over the use of the word "real", and proposed that it should be
>avoided where possible, in the context of parapsychological
>research.

I am sure you don't mean "philosophical question" as simply some
abstraction of the sort ufologists can safely relegate to
late-night discussions over a beer or two. Over the years it has
seemed to me to be the core question that is raised by a wide
range of anomalous reports. I am confident that there are actual
events going on, but I am just as certain that around this
signal is a fog of things I have called experience anomalies
(EAs), which are something else altogether in spite of surface
similarities.

In my judgment, for reasons I have addressed elsewhere, fairy
phenomena and experience are probably more productively viewed
in the context of EAs - though almost certainly, as you suggest,
some or many phenomena pigeonholed in the UFO category may well
be the same.

That doesn't mean that UFO entities are modern fairies, or that
traditional fairies are some variety of UFO entities, just that
they both manifest in anomalies of experience about which, at
this stage of human knowledge, it is difficult, maybe
impossible, to say more. There is no proof that fairies "exist"
in the conventional sense of the verb, but at the same time
there seems no doubt, either, that people have experienced them.
The whole worldwide tradition of fairies is driven, after all,
by perceived encounters with these supernatural beings. This may
be the paradox at the center of the problem of many
extraordinary anomalies (or, more precisely, testimony
concerning many extraordinary anomalies).


Jerry Clark








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   Mar > Mar 3

                        Re: Cartnic Effect - Connors

From: Wendy Connors <fadeddiscs.nul>
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 10:16:07 -0700
Fwd Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 16:27:28 -0500
Subject: Re: Cartnic Effect - Connors


>From: Barry Taylor <stingray.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 11:13:24 +1100
>Subject: Cartnic Effect

>Proposal for new terminology to be used for descriptive
>purposes when describing "the flight characteristics of the
>flight and direction change of groups of UFOs".

>While observing numerous UFO activity during the 1990's, there
>was one important observation that still intrigues me. This is
>the observation of groups of UFO (usually surrounded with a
>white haze) that during their flight appeared to be moving as if
>with the "same mind".

<snip>

>I am at this point in time, unaware of a specific terminology
>that accurately describes the effect observed of birds and fish
>moving as if with the "same mind". This same effect is
>associated with the flight of groups of UFO's.

>I propose that this effect of "group awareness of the same
>mind" be called the "CARTNIC EFFECT".

>Preservation and reduced energy requirements of the individual
>when flying in group formation is another possibility.
>Scientists state that migrating birds when flying in "V"
>formation conserve 71% of their energy during their migration
>flight. This could well also apply to the UFO. An "exchange" of
>energy in UFO groups is another theory I am working on, and may
>post that later.

Barry,

I would be real careful proposing new terminology. Before long,
others will be doing it and before you can whack a wallabee,
your ilk is defining a new science. I agree with your
terminology. It is clear and concise, thus enhancing the mental
image to the proposed term.

Now, if if you could get people to accept CryptoAeronautics
(Manufactured Aerial Objects of Unknown Origin), to replace UFO,
you might have a shot at forcing the evolution of Ufology into a
true science. Which Ufology was always meant to become, even
though it kept getting side-tracked, into a parody of what it
actually encompasses.

So, be very careful to whom you give these ridiculous
ideas...don't want to rock the status quo, or commit the sin
of creating actual teaching terminologies!

But, then again, why not?


Wendy Connors
www.fadeddiscs.com






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   Mar > Mar 3

                     Another Pilot Sighting Report Plus

From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO <hbccufo.nul>
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 09:45:25 -0800
Fwd Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 16:29:53 -0500
Subject: Another Pilot Sighting Report Plus


Another Pilot Sighting Report, Plus.

The person who has reported this sighting to me wants to remain
anonymous.

One night in 1977 on a flight to Chicago (ORD) and after passing
abeam of Louisville,Ky., an extremely bright light appeared in
the northeast. At first we thought it was an aircraft that had
turned on a nose light, but soon realised that it was much too
bright and was much more pure white than an aircraft light. It
also appeared to be at a higher altitude than aircraft would
normally fly. We asked Indianapolis Center if they had traffic
at our one o'clock position. Their reply was in the negative and
also mentioned that they had no radar contact. Shortly
thereafter, the light winked out. The following sightings all
occurred on the ground.

On the night of May, 16th. 2001, I was in the yard of my
residence observing satellites. I had a schedule at hand and a
good pair of binoculars. At 01:10 GMT, what appeared to be a
satellite showed up in the southwest, moving to the northeast.

Unbelievably, it instantly made a 90 degree turn to the
northwest. After making that instant change in direction,it
began to slow down to a stop! Then I saw another,coming from the
southeast on a course to join the first craft. As #2 was
approaching #1, #3 showed up in the far northwest. It was not as
bright as the other two and appeared smaller, but was very
fast.I followed it for about 5 seconds and when I looked for #1
and #2, they both had disappeared. These craft were surely not
satellites.


On the afternoon of May,18, 2002, at 2:20 p.m., I was sitting in
a lawn chair enjoying the fine weather. There were a few
scattered fair weather clouds floating by, but for the most part
the sky was clear and blue. Suddenly,in the northwest,something
caught my eye.It appeared to be a shiny ball,heading to the
southeast at high speed. Not a disc on edge, but a ball! At arms
length, I estimated it to be the size of a BB. If it were manned
and surely it was,it probably was at least 8 ft.in diameter. It
"flew" across 50 degrees of sky in 5 to 7 seconds. It was NOT a
mylar balloon or a weather balloon. Its course was straight and
true. It must have had intelligent control as it passed over the
western edge of Atlanta,Ga. and through the airways and the
traffic patterns of Atlanta's Hartsfield Intl. airport.


Brian Vike
Director HBCC UFO Research
Home - Phone 250 845 2189
email: hbccufo.nul
Website: http://www.hbccufo.com










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                 Re: JPL/NASA's Ho Hum Conference - Fleming

From: Lan Fleming <lfleming6.nul>
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 12:35:19 -0600
Fwd Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 16:32:25 -0500
Subject: Re: JPL/NASA's Ho Hum Conference - Fleming


>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 18:03:21 -0500
>Subject: Re: JPL/NASA's Ho Hum Conference

>>From: Chaz Stuart <Daydisk2.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 14:42:34 -0500 (EST)
>>Subject: JPL/NASA's Ho Hum Conference


>>Tue, Mar 2, 2004, 2:15pm

>>Wow! They just announced that they believe water once existed on
>>Mars! Gee! We didn't know this did we?

>>Maybe in a few more years they'll tell us that there still is
>>water there!

>>I'm breathless...

>>Mac, I'm afraid you were right! The geologists don't want to
>>give up their cushy jobs.

>Show us any evidence you believe you have that NASA-JPL
>geologists (or any others) are hiding anything to loose their
>jobs about if they should reveal it.

Here is the evidence they're "hiding," but they're hiding it in
full view:

http://www3.telus.net/paulanderson/mer.html

They're not actually hiding it, of course. They're just ignoring
it or dismissing it with lame off-the-cuff explanations when
someone has the bad manners to point out to them that these
things are in their rover images. JPL doesn't actually need to
hide evidence when it's much easier for them to just spin it
away.








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                   Re: Identfy Friend Or Foe? - Dickenson

From: Ray Dickenson <editor.nul>
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 19:43:30 +0000
Fwd Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 16:36:07 -0500
Subject: Re: Identfy Friend Or Foe? - Dickenson


As promised, here's a step further. Whether skeptics call it
hypothesis or speculation, _if_ it's valid then skeptics and
debunkers are being affected (or used), just as much as UFO &
abduction experiencers and the rest of us.

A proportion of UFO/abduction experiences are well attested as
non-material, metamorphic, shape-changing. They've been covered
in Vallee's and others' studies but no further conclusions have
been thought possible, except maybe by some in recent "UFOs and
Fairies" posts.

Now

http://www.perceptions.couk.com/uef/friend-foe.txt

goes further, and however `fantastic' you might call it, you'll
see it's fully in line with mundane physics.

It's a sort-of-delayed reply to Larry Hatch's

>Ah! Lets presume they can 'read minds' as in some advanced
>technology that can see minuscule electrical impulses in the
>brain, through the skull mind you, and from some reasonably
>safe distance. Quite a trick.

http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2004/feb/m16-017.shtml

and to Mary Chapman's

>It concerns Hyper-Communications, which in my opinion may be
>the answer to _how_ we eventually will communicate properly
>with ET, and possibly how evolution has been influenced
>and/or has been a process of intervention by Super-
>Intelligences as some have speculated.

http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2004/feb/m17-037.shtml

and could be affecting everybody - everywhere

Sleep easy,

Cheers

Ray D
(apologies if sent twice - didn't get copy from first)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Perceptions" http://www.perceptions.couk.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~








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                        Magaha/Friedman Debate Tape?

From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg.nul>
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 13:50:08 -0600
Fwd Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 16:49:45 -0500
Subject: Magaha/Friedman Debate Tape?



Mr. Friedman. Is the debate tape ready to ship?


Lehmberg.nul

EXPLORE "AlienViewGroup" at its HostPros URL.
http://www.alienview.net


JOHN FORD RESTORATION FUND -- John will be released eventually.
He'll need a tax free cash stake to get on his feet. Let's put
one together for him; the bigger it is -- the more attention he
gets. It could have been you. E-mail for detail.
$450.00 pledged -- $200.00 collected!

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite.
What others see from afar, I leave far behind me."
- Giordano Bruno, scourged by the scabrously specious
  scurrilous.








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                    Re: Filer's Files #10-2004 - Stanford

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 15:09:55 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 16:51:18 -0500
Subject: Re: Filer's Files #10-2004 - Stanford


>From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Wed,  3 Mar 2004 08:23:07 -0600
>Subject: Re: Filer's Files #10-2004

>>From: Aaron LeClair <force.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 16:40:22 -0500
>>Subject: Re: Filer's Files #10-2004

>>Anyone know Jeff Rense personally? I don't, but been wondering
>>why he has Filer on so much...

>>Hurts the credibility of his show I would imagine.

>Not any more than the constant barrage of veiled anti-Semitic
>stuff jamming his website. Used to be Rense was a relatively
>decent source of UFO-related info, but now the noise has
>definitely buried the signal.

That, unfortunately, is the disgusting truth. It's hard not to
notice! Thanks for daring to say it, Tim.


Ray Stanford

"You know my method. It is founded upon the observance of
trifles." -- Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery








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   Mar > Mar 3

                  NASA-JPL May Have Cooked Their Own Goose!

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 15:50:55 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 16:57:22 -0500
Subject: NASA-JPL May Have Cooked Their Own Goose!


NASA-JPL has diagnosed the 'blueberries' as concretions formed
within a wet substrate. Aside from a few of the spheres and at
least one textbook splash-form dumb bell-shaped small object that
seem to be composed of translucent glass possibly knocked up and
frozen in flight by cosmic impact, my examination of many images
of the 'blueberries' taken under diverse light angles suggests
that they are right as to the origin of at least most of the
'blueberries'.

Well, if NASA-JPL really intend to hide evidences of past or
present life on Mars, as some on this List feel is the case,
they have probably cooked their own we've-found-no-evidence-of-
life-on-Mars goose in making that diagnosis!

How so?

The geologists employed by NASA-JPL must not be very well-
informed on research during recent years concerning the function
of bacteria in a vast array of diagenetic (rock forming)
processes and, including the nucleation and growth of
concretions. Yet, in my research into diagenesis in
paleoichnites (ancient traces such as animal tracks and their
fossilized droppings, coprolites) it has been necessary to get
into current research on that, in order to better understand the
things my colleagues and I in paleoichnology find in streambeds
and in broader areas of anciently tracked-upon substrates.

To make a long story short (I shall over-simplify for sake of
brevity), there is increasing evidence of the function of
bacteria in rock-forming and even in some sand-forming processes
(wherein bacteria serve to nucleate the growth of small silicate
crystals). On Earth, in formation of spherical concretions,
bacterial colonies and/or other organic matter infused with
bacteria nucleate crystalline silica growth. I suspect it would
likewise be the case where Mars was wet over extended periods.

In the wet, mushy or 'muddy' environment, the resulting micro-
concretion slowly grows (sometimes incorporating or
encapsulating adjacent grains of silt or sand, sometimes simply
by crystalline growth from colloidally suspended silica
crystallizing and pushing adjacent silt ahead of its growth,
sometimes by a combination of the two processes), increasing its
diameter spherically across time. If conditions for the
bacterial colony's growth are episodic, one can sometimes see
(upon slicing the concretion) rather distinct concentric layers
of growth that formed the concretion, but where conditions for
growth are constant, the concretion may show a crystalline
pattern with virtually no concentric layering.

Nowhere known to me on earth are spherical concretions found in
anywhere nearly the concentration we have been shown within the
layered substrate in that Martian crater or in adjacent areas
where the concretions seem to have weathered (or have been
knocked) ex situ. Wherever I have found concretions in Early
Cretaceous substrates (Barremian-Aptian) they have formed where
the 'muck' that was turned to rock (likely with the help of
bacteria) was (when wet, in dinosaur times) full of organic
material and bacteria, both ferrophagic (iron eating) and other.

Thus it is that I seriously doubt we would see the vast numbers
of concretions in the crater on Mars if bacterial life had not
once been abundant in the wet, concretion forming substrate. As
recent years gone by, it has become more and more understood how
terrestrial rock formation and rock breakdown, as well, are
involved with bacterial processes of diverse types.

When will the seemingly old-fashioned geologists at NASA-JPL
wake up to recent advances in petrogenesis, etc., and realize
that they have likely been showing us concretionary evidence of
(at least) a former abundance of some kind of bacterial life in
a (at least) once water-abundant environment of Mars?

When? Well, I'm not holding my breath. Those people are
probably blind and petrified with paranoia of what colleagues on
the outside might say if they should be even slightly wrong.
Such was not the way of the great scientific pioneers, and
never will be.

Is that a goose I smell cooking, somewhere? Hmmm... could that
be blowing in from Pasadena?


Ray Stanford

"You know my method. It is founded upon the observance of
trifles." -- Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery








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   Mar > Mar 3

                    Bigfoot Makes Appearance In Levittown

From: Louise A. Lowry <ShnSassy1.nul>
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 14:48:35 -0600
Fwd Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 17:02:25 -0500
Subject: Bigfoot Makes Appearance In Levittown


This was in our Local paper yesterday...

Source: The Bucks County Courier Times

http://www.phillyburbs.com/pb-dyn/news/219-03022004-256522.html

03-02-04


Bigfoot makes appearance in Levittown
Bucks County Courier Times

Stuart Caesar likes to hunt in the wilderness of upstate
Pennsylvania.

And over the years, he's heard Native American legends of
Bigfoot, the creature that roams the woods rustling sheep and
deer, and sometime letting loose terrifying screams.

These sightings occur in remote places like Towanda and
Wyalusing and Tioga.

But Caesar believes he has evidence that Bigfoot is stalking
Levittown.

He snapped pictures to show doubters.

He says he's a Bigfoot skeptic. Still, he won't dismiss the
creature's existence completely, mainly because of his eerie
experiences while hunting.

In the hinterlands of Wyalusing and Towanda, he says he's seen
and heard things that can't easily be explained.

He and fellow hunters have had rocks hurled at them by unseen
hands (or paws).

He's heard screams in the night, too.

"Deer and elk make a bellowing noise. I know what that sounds
like. But this is a scream. It's definitely not an animal. If it
is human, what is someone doing in the middle of a mountain,
screaming?

"I'll see stick stackings against trees. I'll see branches
broken off eight or nine feet in the air, cleanly snapped. I've
always wondered what is causing this. These are very isolated
areas. You're on top of a mountain. You're in 'Deliverance'
country."

Bigfoot, the shy, hairy giant of the woods, known to some as
Sasquatch, has fascinated Caesar, 42, since he was a kid.

But by the mid-1980s, after never seeing one himself, or seeing
evidence that would allay doubt, he decided Bigfoot was fake.

"If it was real, we would have it by now," he said.

However, a few years ago he heard about the Pennsylvania Bigfoot
Society, which is based in Jeannette, southeast of Pittsburgh.

He was surprised to hear that the creature had been spotted
frequently throughout western Pennsylvania in recent years.

"When I was kid, that was unheard of. You never heard of Bigfoot
in Pennsylvania," Caesar said.

As a hunter, it makes sense, though, he said.

Animals that were rarely spotted in Pennsylvania a few years
ago, like cougars and mountain lions, are seen more frequently
now.

"It's a change in weather patterns that's causing these animals
to search for food. I figure it's the same with Bigfoot."

He doesn't expect to convince hard-core non-believers. However,
he points out that Indian tribes native to Pennsylvania have
remarkably similar legends about a great mysterious beast that
lurks in the state's vast and largely unpopulated forests.


"Indians believed in Bigfoot. They considered him a spirit of
the forest. They considered him to be a spiritual creature, and
many Indian tribes still hold true to the story. They would
leave him food and he would give them firewood in return,
stacking it against trees," he said.

According to legend, Bigfoot is intelligent, on a parallel with
humans. But what accounts for Bigfoot's terminal shyness?

"If it is intelligent, this makes perfect sense," Caesar said.
"Eight, 9 feet tall, covered with hair. Man's reaction even to
humans with different skin colors causes people to act with fear
and suspicion.

"Now imagine an intelligent creature, which is larger than us
and stronger than us, and lives in the woods and off nature. The
obvious reaction from the general public would not be good.

"Confirmation of this creature's existence would cause a lot of
Beavis and Butthead types to search for it and kill it. People
tend to react in panic to things they don't understand," he
said.

Which brings us to Caesar's photos, which he snapped in December
behind a shuttered Halloween supply store on New Falls Road near
Levittown's Magnolia Hill section.

Caesar said his girlfriend discovered large Bigfoot-like tracks
while showing her daughter a sledding hill she played on as a
kid.

Caesar got his camera and followed the tracks through a fence
topped with barbed wire and down to a small creek, where they
vanished.

"There were toe markings ... the tracks were smooth, indicating
a heel and ball of a foot," he said.

The footprints were 16 inches wide.

And why would Bigfoot come to Levittown?

"Why would a deer be in Levittown? Why would a bear be in
Levittown?" he asked. "If you live in a location where deer and
bear can appear, it's food migration."

I like legends, and mysteries, especially when well told.

But if you ask me, after examining some of the photos, it looks
like Bigfoot was wearing L.L. Bean snow boots as he rooted for
grub.

J.D. Mullane can be reached at 215-949-5745 or at
jmullane.nul His column appears Sunday, Tuesday and
Thursday.


--
World Of The Strange http://www.worldofthestrange.com
Para-Discussion List: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Para-Discuss/







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   Mar > Mar 3

                        UFO ROUNDUP Volume 9 Number 9

From: John Hayes <webmaster.nul>
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 20:41:13 +0000
Fwd Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 17:05:15 -0500
Subject: UFO ROUNDUP Volume 9 Number 9



Posted on behalf of Joseph Trainor.

<Masinaigan.nul>
==========================

      UFO ROUNDUP
Volume 9, Number 9
March 3, 2004
Editor: Joseph Trainor

E-mail: Masinaigan.nul
Website: http://www.ufoinfo.com/roundup/


EL POMBERO CAUSES HAVOC
IN NORTHERN ARGENTINA

      It started with the sighting of a South American
quadruped called the Aguara Guaz, which residents of Saenz
Pena, a city in northern Argentina, mistook for the
legendary El Lobizon (Werewolf--J.T.).  Things went
downhill from there.
      "A woman and her neighbors from barrio Santa Teresita
(neighborhood)" in Saenz Pena "reported that a strange
being 'short and black, like a dwarf' had appeared."
      "It was believed to be the legendary El Pombero (Imp
or Goblin--S.C.), but the possibility that it could be a
product of black magic was not dismissed out of hand,
according to the protagonists of this case."
      "The only person who managed to see the alleged
Pombero was Liliana Nieves, 26, who was allegedly
assaulted by the entity.  She described it as a small man,
completely black, that 'followed her and wanted to drag
her away.'  Until yesterday (Saturday, February 21, 2004)
the woman was confined to the mental ward of the Cuatro de
Junio Hospital" in Saenz Pena.
      "The story gains credibility because over ten
eyewitnesses agree about the events that occurred on
Tuesday night (February 17, 2004), repeated on Thursday
(February 19, 2004) and were expected to reoccur on
Saturday night.  And things are considered all the more
interesting because they occurred in a neighborhood
considered tranquil by its residents."
      "According to various statements collected by El
Norte, the beginning of the story must be traced to
Tuesday when a shower of stones fell over the house
located at 31st Street and 0000 Street in Santa Teresita.
No one could see who was throwing them."
      "'She,'" meaning Liliana, "'saw something ripping at
mandarin and tomato plants in the backyard.  She said a
person ran out.  This was on Tuesday.  Her husband and
another man who was with her gave chase,' said Norma
Cordoba, Liliana's sister-in-law, who lives on the same
property."
      "'While the two of us were alone, a brick hit the
roof.  She told me, 'Come here.  There's another one.'
and a shadow shot out toward the back of the property.  It
kept throwing stones at the roof until four in the
morning, when I had a breakdown.  They took me to the
hospital because I broke down.'"
(Editor's Note:  For more on stone-throwing poltergeists,
see The Complete Books of Charles Fort, Dover Publications
Inc., New York, N.Y., 1974, pages 27, 71, 100, 103, 119,
120, 244, 260, 391, 392, 393, 403, 409, 440, 446, 451 and
521.)
      "Nothing happened on Wednesday evening (February 18,
2004).  Just as the family started to think Tuesday's
ordeal was just a prank, the events repeated on Thursday
night (February 19, 2004), but with some serious
consequences."
      "'Liliana and her husband were sitting on the patio,
and I was in bed,'" Norma reported, "'Stones were hitting
the roof again, and when I went out, all of the neighbors
were up because they had heard the ruckus.  Stones kept
falling on my house and the neighbors' houses.  All of the
lights were on.  All of the people were in the backyard,
and the stones kept falling.'"
      "The neighbors' houses are joined by a common patio
filled with trees whose branches reach the ground.  The
alleged attack took place in back of the dwellings, and
residents claim the shower of stones came from the same
area, but no assailant could be seen."
      "'She (Liliana) went back to see who was throwing the
stones.  And she wouldn't come back.  And we called out to
her until another man found her sprawled on the ground,
with a blow to her face, part of her eye and her mouth.'"
      "'She says it was a man this tall,' the woman
indicated the height of her waistline, 'who covered her
mouth, dragged her to the bushes and beat her.  He let her
go when he heard neighbors calling her name, when they
searched for her,'" said Sra. Cordoba.
      "'Later, when they brought her in, she fell to the
floor.  She asked her brother and her neighbors to remove
whatever was grabbing on to her feet.  They would stand
her up and she would fall down as if her feet were being
pulled out from under her.  No one could see anything, and
they rained machete blows around her.  She was desperate,
saying that someone was there.'"
      "The woman remained in this frenzied state until the
police arrived to take her to the hospital where she
remains in the psychiatric ward."
      "'She said that it came back every so often, saying
it wanted to take her away,' according to Mario Obregon,
the young woman's brother.  'I would stand in front of her
and try to defend her as best I could, but I couldn't see
it.  Then a neighbor came with a (Roman Catholic) crucifix
to pray, and the thing came back even more.  Liliana said
it would grab her ever more fiercely.'"
      "From midnight on Saturday (February 21, 2004) to two
in the morning on Sunday (February 22, 2004), residents of
31st and 0000 Streets in barrio Santa Teresita were on the
lookout, fearful that the strange events that may have
taken place last week would occur again.  These attacks
were attributed to the work of El Pombero and black
magic."
      "As these events occurred on Tuesday and Thursday,
the fear was that they would repeat themselves on
Saturday, following the logic of one 'off night' between
events.  But this was not the case, and locals contacted
by El Norte yesterday pointed out that this was due to the
visit of a deacon who prayed with them in their houses."
      "'i've come to give you some relief, not to increase
your fear.  And your knowledge of God must be increased,
and of the value of the family itself,' said Deacon
Dionisio Castagna of the (Roman Catholic) San Jose
parish."  Castagna learned of the situation through the
neighbors.  "They asked me to bless their house, and I
thought it would be a good thing.  What's important is not
that I should go pour water at their house but to give
them a chance to speak with God,' said the clergyman in a
marked Italian accent."
      Mario Obregon said, "'I never saw anything like this.
Nor did anything remotely similar ever happen to me.  The
boy who lives right next door says it could be El Pombero,
so I can't say because I don't know.  We simply saw
something we cannot describe, but it was supernatural.'"
      "El Pombero or Pomberito, as he is affectionately
known, is the most popular of the (Rio) Corrientes goblins
throughout the ranch country of this river basin.  He also
appears in commentaries, songs, sayings and tales."
      "He is short and squat, always covered by his large
straw hat.  He is as lascivious as the Cupero (another
Argentinian goblin--J.T.), has hairy feet and walks
noiselessly--for this reason he is dubbed Pirague, a name
that has been used to describe independent or left-wing
politicians."
      "It is said that El Pombero can be a faithful friend
whom one can trust blindly in time of need.  An inveterate
smoker, he likes to chew tobacco, and cigarettes and
tobacco products must be left for him at night, by a
window or on a barbed-wire (fence) post.  For this he is
also known as Mascadita (Spanish for Chewy--S.C.)  Black
tobacco is his favorite."  ("But I'll gladly accept
Marlboros"--El Pombero.)
      "El Pombero is a Protean imp.  He can turn into a
bird, or a floating log, anything.  He has the gift of
turning invisible and penetrates ranch houses through any
hole.  He sings like a small chicken when amusing himself
but can imitate all birds perfectly.  Out of fear of
causing a manifestation, some only say his name in a low
voice, but he also had Adepts who claim to have dealings
with him and other strange creatures, as well."
      "He sleeps in backfills and abandoned ovens.  He
hangs around the girls he wants to seduce, which is why
whenever there is a suspicious birth in town and the
father is unknown, people say, 'Surely it was El
Pombero.'"
      "In regard to El Pombero's preference for women, it
is said in Corrientes (province) that he falls in love
with pregnant women who are carrying girl children.  Women
say they know for sure they're going to give birth to a
girl, because they feel for the first few months that El
Pombero is escorting them when they walk at night, or when
they are asleep."
      "Among the Araucan natives (indigenous people of
Chile--J.T.) there is also a 'Pombero' known as Peuken who
pursues women.  He is also a short, lascivious dwarf from
the forested regions of (southern) Chile."
      "'We don't know what was going on there.  All of us
saw something grab her and hold onto her, dragging her
along the ground.  Some said it was El Pombero, because
Lili said later than an old black creature had siezed her
ankles and wanted to kill her,' said Felipe Goitea, one of
the witnesses to the strange event."
      "Local residents stated that they were upset because
orderlies from the Cuatro de Junio Hospital did not
believe Lili when she told them what had happened.  When
she described the black imp, medical personnel said it
'was an invention to conceal an episode of family
violence.'"
      "The woman who claimed having been assaulted by the
legendary entity known as El Pombero was a patient in the
Cuatro de Junio Hospital's Psychiatric Ward (Room 8--G.C.)
from the early morning hours on Friday until Monday
morning (February 23, 2004).  During this time period,
physicians were unable to complete their evaluation of her
mental condition, but they believed that she suffered a
hallucination common to a hysteric attack."
      "However, there are doubts about who inflicted the
blows to her face, leading experts to believe that it
could all be a case of domestic violence, and that
presumably the doctors may ask law enforcement to
investigate the case has not been ruled out.  (See the
Argentinian newspapers El Norte for February 22, 2004,
"Woman nearly battered to death by 'Imp;'  El Norte for
February 23, 2004, "Saenz Pena still in uproar over
strange phenomena assaulting woman;" El Norte for February
25, 2004, "Woman attacked by El Pombero is in the Saenz
Pena mental ward," and Diario Primera for February 23,
2004, "Neighbors blame El Pombero."  Muchas gracias a
Scott Corrales y Gloria Coluchi para estos articulos de
diario.)
(Editor's Comment: Domestic violence, eh?  Well, that
explains everything...except for the showers of stones on
two separate nights, witnessed by over 10 people.)


UFO LANDS IN PAKISTAN;
THREE ALIENS SIGHTED

      Pakistan ordered a Red Alert in the Punjab, along its
border with India, after a UFO was sighted by a constable
of India's Border Security Force (BSF).
      The UFO landed the same night that troops of
Pakistan's Rapid Reaction Force were hunting for Osama Bin
Laden in the hills around Wawa, a town in the South
Waziristan Tribal Agency, located about 304 kilometers
(190 miles) west of Islamabad, the national capital.
      "The mystery surrounding an unidentified flying
object, which was spotted close to the international
border with Pakistan by a police post sentry and a few
villagers of Chann Kalan, continued on the third day."
      "Though Border Security Force authorities have
registered a protest with Pakistani Rangers on Saturday,"
February 28, 2004, "asking them to return any object or
glider if the same had landed on their territory, along
with any accompanying human beings, but there are so
senior officials of BSF who discount the possibility of
any human beings coming across the border--on the basis of
the reports of the size of the flying object collected by
them."
      "On the evening of (Thursday) February 26 (2004), a
sentry of Fatehpur Chowki had spotted an eagle-like flying
object that originated from India and landed about 500
meters inside Pakistan's territory."
      "A high alert was sounded along the Indo-Pak border
in Punjab in the wake of the landing of an 'unidentified
flying object' in Pakistan's territory, BSF Senior
Commandant Darbarah Singh said in Amritsar (India) on
Sunday," February 29, 2004.
      "The incident occurred on Thursday evening (February
26, 2004) when a flying object which took off from the
Indian side landed in Pakistan's territory directly 300
yards (270 meters) away from the zero line (border--
J.T.)."
      "The area was identified on the Indian side as BSF
Post Fatehpur, falling in the village of Chann Kalan, he
said."
      "Singh said, 'As per the eyewitness account of BSF
Constable Jagdish Parishad, who on Thursday evening was
keeping vigil on the International Border, had seen a
flying object like a hot balloon carrying three persons,
who disembarked after landing in Pakistan's territory."
      "Singh said, 'Now it has become difficult to
ascertain the reality that the flying object landed in
Pakistan's territory after crossing Indian territory, as
the BSF constable is not educated enough to identify the
object.'"
      "'Since the constable has never seen a para-glider,
fan glider and even a hot-air balloon during his service
tenure, it is difficult to ascertain the authenticity of
this matter,' he said."
      Just prior to the UFO sighting, "Pakistani troops
backed by helicopter gunships and artillery detained 20
people Tuesday (February 24, 2004) in raids against
suspected Al-Qaeda hideouts in a tribal region bordering
Afghanistan."
      The same day, "two Arab television stations aired
messages attributed to Osama Bin Laden's top deputy," Dr.
Ayman al-Zawahiri.
      "On one tape, broadcast on Al-Jazeera, a voice
attributed to Dr. Zawahiri taunts President (George W.)
Bush with references to his State of the Union speech in
which Bush said two-thirds of Al-Qaeda had been
destroyed."
      "Rejecting that, the voice on the tape says 'Al-Qaeda
is still in the holy war battleground (Pakistan and
Afghanistan--J.T.)' and is preparing to carry out fresh
attacks in the United States."
      On Wednesday, February 25, 2004, "American F-15
fighter jets and Indian jets fought a mock battle" over
Gwalior, a city in central India, "as the first-ever joint
aerial exercise between the two nations, who were on
opposite sides during the Cold War."
      "The ten-day war games, codenamed Operation Cope
India 2004, signalled a new era of military cooperation
between India and the United States.  The Indian Air
Force, the world's fifth largest, said it was a close
match for the U.S. Air Force."
      "The USAF is very advanced but at a tactical level we
are a rough match.  In air-to-air and in beyond-visual-
range combat, however, the Americans have lots of
experience, and we are learning from them,' said Air
Marshal Ajit Bhavani in Gwalior."
      "The ten-day exercise is being held at IAF
Maharajpur, an air base 7 kilometers (4 miles) from
Gwalior.  U.S.-designed twin-engined F-15C Eagles clashed
with Russian-built Sukhoi Su-30s, MiG-21s and French-
designed Mirage 2000s jets of the Indian Air Force (IAF)."
(Editor's Comment:  Most troubling is the fact that these
maneuvers received zero news coverage in the USA's news
media.  Perhaps the UFO that landed in Chann Kalan was
spying on Operation Cope India 2004.)
      Also the same week, USA Defense Secretary Donald
Rumsfeld visited bases in Uzbekistan and Afghanistan,
fueling speculation that an Allied invasion of the South
Waziristan Tribal Agency is imminent.  Osama Bin Laden has
many supporters among the Waziris and Ghazis in those
hills, who revere him as a prophet and refer to him as al-
Sheikh.
      In Afghanistan, Rumsfeld "visited troops in the
southern city of Kandahar and went to the presidential
palace in the Afghan capital, Kabul, to meet with
President Hamid Karzai, U.S. Ambassador Zalmay Khalizad,
and the top American commander in Afghanistan, Lt. Gen.
David Barno."
      In an appearance before the Senate Intelligence
Committee in Washington on Tuesday, February 24, 2004, CIA
director George Tenet discussed the growth of Al-Qaeda in
the region.
      "As for Bin Laden, Tenet suggested the terrorist
leader might be out of action, at least temporarily."
      "'Bin Laden has gone deep underground,' he said,
without elaborating."  (See the Times of India for
February 25, 2004 and for February 28, 2004, "UFO mystery
continues on Indo-Pak border;" the Hindustan Times for
February 29, 2004; The Scotsman for February 26, 2004; and
the Chicago Tribune for February 25, 2004, "Next wave of
terrorists taking shape" and "Pakistani raids net 20 near
border," section 1, page 5.  Many thanks to Jim Hickman,
Krishnari Bai Dharapurnanda, Karim Afzal Khan and Ayesha
al-Khatabi for these news stories.)
(Editor's Comment: Deep underground, eh?  Tell us, Mr.
Tenet, is that "deep underground" as in Shambhala?  I have
a sneaky feeling Osama and his son-in-law, Mohammed Mullah
Omar, scuttled down the ancient Uighur tunnel to Shambhala
again, leaving Dr. Zawahiri to hold the fort in South
Waziristan.)


LUMINOUS UFO SIGHTED
NEAR DENIZLI, TURKEY

      On Thursday, February 26, 2004, at 7 p.m., Jack C.
was outdoors in Kinikli, a suburb of Denizli, a city in
southeastern Turkey, when he looked up at the night sky
and saw a UFO approaching from the north.
      "Its size was about half that of the moon," Jack
reported, "And from my position it was a good two
kilometers (1.2 miles) away.  The object followed me for
about five minutes and suddenly moved forward to the top
of the (Boz Daglari) mountains.  It was moon-shaped and a
bright bulb-colored light.  Its speed was high as it took
only a second to move 30 kilometers (18 miles) westward."
      Denizli is about 400 kilometers (250 miles) southeast
of Ankara, the capital of Turkey.  (Email Form Report)


EIGHT UFOs SIGHTED OVER
CHARLESTON, S.C.

      On Saturday, February 21, 2004, at 11:30 p.m., Ed
Davis and a few friends were outside in Charleston, South
Carolina (population 96,650)  when they suddenly saw a
strange luminous glow approaching from the east, over
Mount Pleasant, S.C. (population 47,609).
      "I saw what looked like a small compact constellation
of lights--maybe 8 to 10 of them--moving in unison from
east to west," Ed reported, "They were synchronized, some
of them left the formation and later dropped back into the
formation at the back.  They came across the sky from east
to west with eight lights in total.  Then the first two
peeled off to the side briefly and then fell back into the
formation.  No change in color, other than the entire area
in the compact formation seemed to have a unified
glow/aura to it but lighter."
      "We were in Charleston, and it was a very clear night
and aircraft were visible from time to time.  There is a
large military base just west of Charleston."  (Many
thanks to ufologist Brian Vike for this news story.)


UFO PHOTOGRAPHED IN
NYACK, NEW YORK

      On Saturday, February 21, 2004, at 3 p.m., John C.
walked down to the west bank of the Hudson River in Nyack,
New York (population 6,737) and decided to try out his new
digital camera.
      "I took several pictures of the Tappan Zee Bridge
(over the Hudson River--J.T.)  There was traffic on the
bridge, and the sky was empty.  When I got home, I was
downloading photos, and a UFO appeared in one photo
unexpectedly.  It was a charcoal-black, V-shaped UFO.  Its
height and speed are unknown."
      Nyack, N.Y. is located about 25 miles (40 kilometers)
north of New York City.  (Email Form Report)


READER FEEDBACK:

MYSTERY VAN IS A FAKE!

      Concerning the mysterious silver-grey van seen and
photographed in Arizona, Alik S. of Canada writes, "The
Raytheon antenna is just a boat radar, and a small one at
that; the grey dish is a satellite-TV antenna, if it was
anything else the receiver at focal point would not be a
common TV downconverter.  There is what looks like a TV
camera with floodlights.  The warning signs are from
military surplus."
      "There is not even a hint of exotic electronics
visible on this thing.  This is simply some guys driving
around playing with gadgets that are readily available
from any boating store."


      That's it for this week.  Join us in seven days for
more UFO, Fortean and paranormal news from around the
planet Earth, brought to you by "the paper that goes home-
-UFO Roundup."  See you next time.

UFO ROUNDUP: Copyright 2004 by Masinaigan Productions, all
rights reserved.  Readers may post news items from UFO
Roundup on their Web sites or in news groups provided that
they credit the newsletter and its editor by name and list
the date of issue in which the item first appeared.

E-Mail Reports to: Joseph Trainor <Masinaigan.nul>
or use the Sighting Report Form at:

http://www.ufoinfo.com/forms/form_sighting.htm

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Website comments: John Hayes <webmaster.nul>

UFOINFO: http://www.ufoinfo.com

Official Archives for UFO Roundup, AUFORN Australian
UFO Reports and Experiences, UFO + PSI Magazine
plus archives of Humanoid Sighting Reports (Albert
Rosales), Filer's Files, Oz Files, UFO News UK.
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If you wish to unsubscribe or feel you have received
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   Mar > Mar 3

                         Re: The Illuminati - Warren

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 13:55:10 -0800
Fwd Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 17:06:47 -0500
Subject: Re: The Illuminati - Warren


>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 21:38:06 -0500
>Subject: Re: The Illuminati

>>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 07:57:52 -0800
>>Subject: Re: The Illuminati

><snip>

>>Pardon the the interjection, but I wanted to point out that the
>>government "doesn't deny the existence of UFOs"; their official
>>position is:

>>(1) no UFO reported, investigated, and evaluated by the Air
>>Force was ever a threat to our national security;

>>(2) there was no evidence submitted to, or discovered by, the
>>Air Force that sightings categorized as "unidentified"
>>represented technological developments or principles beyond the
>>range of modern scientific knowledge; and

>>(3) there was no evidence indicating that sightings categorized
>>as "unidentified" were extraterrestrial vehicles.

>>(Conclusion of Project Blue Book).

>As for that (3), of course if they know it is, for example, an
>extraterrestrial vehicle, it is not unidentified, by definition,
>is it? Such are the semantic games officialdom plays.

<snip>

Ray,

I'll take it a step further - the afore mentioned points in
conclusion of Project Blue Book are "out in out lies!"

1). First and foremost, the government claims that "the
majority" of UFOs investigated, and evaluated by the Air Force
are indeed "IFOs," however; although the percentages vary, they
still by their own admission "don't know" what some are! That
being the case it's impossible to deduce whether they are a
threat to "National Security" or not.

2). I don't know how the Air Force's defines a "threat to
National Security," however; instances of UFOs penetrating
supposedly "secure" military installations, disabling nuclear
weapons, causing "evasive maneuvers by both military and
civilian aircraft, affecting the electronics of such, being
associated with the abduction of citizens, apparently
necessitating fraudulent public statements, to name a few, I
would think "falls under that category!"

3). By their own admission, from the beginning of modern
sightings, starting with "Foo Fighters," because of the
seemingly "advanced dynamics" of these UFOs, e.g., speed,
maneuverability, shape etc., these technologically advanced
vehicles instigated the investigation thereof.

4). In regards to their third point, and not even getting to
"close encounters," etc., there is no known "man-made
technology" that could duplicate the maneuvers of UFOs then and
or now, therefore; "Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter
necessitatem."


Cheers,

Frank









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                   Montell Williams Show With Sylvia Brown

From: Terry Groff <terry.nul>
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 15:39:20 -0600
Fwd Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 17:10:05 -0500
Subject: Montell Williams Show With Sylvia Brown



I'm watching Montell right now with his regular Wednesday guest,
Silvia Brown.

One of the audience members had been a guest on his show before,
telling of her abduction experience. This person believes she
and a friend had been abducted by aliens on their way to a
relative's house. They claim to have observed a reddish-orange
orb descending and "crashing" near them. They then observed
several "saucer" shaped objects emerge from the "crash" site.
This, she said, had occurred at about 12:15 am. The next thing
they remember is that it was now 6 am and they don't know what
had happened to them during the almost 6 hours of missing time.

This person asked Ms. Brown if she believed it was an alien
abduction and without hesitation she said "Absolutely". Prior to
this both ladies had undergone regression hypnosis and the
Doctor who performed the process recorded both sessions.

Having "senior" moments like I do I failed to get any names and
locations so I'm going to send for a transcript of the program.

The audience member also asked Ms. Brown if she thought there
was a message to be taken away from this experience and Sylvia
said "Sure. It's to wake up and realize we are being observed".


Terry Groff

UFO Tools
http://terrygroff.com/ufotools/








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                         Re: The Illuminati - Warren

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 14:19:34 -0800
Fwd Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 17:11:45 -0500
Subject: Re: The Illuminati - Warren


>From: Steven Kaeser <steve.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 10:54:14 -0500
>Subject: Re: The Illuminati

>>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 18:43:21 -0500
>>Subject: Re: The Illuminati

>>>From: Robert Gates <RGates8254.nul>
>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 02:12:13 EST
>>>Subject: Re: The Illuminati

<snip>

>>>This has been my point with UFOs over the years. Instead of
>>>wasting time trying to get skeptibunkers to give the evidence a
>>>fair shake; instead of wasting time to get some university on
>>>the band wagon to do some scientific study, we within the UFO
>>>field need to just go out and do it ourselves and not worry
>>>about whether so called "main stream science" will get on board.

>>Fortunately, that is exactly what some of us have been doing.

>Are we defining everyone who isn't already a part of the UFO
>community a "skeptibunker"? The field has been doing this on its
>own for 50 years, but I'm not sure that much has been
>accomplished. Somehow we have to reach out to mainstream
>science, and we need to do it differently than it's been done in
>the past.

Until the powers-that-be allow it, or an event takes place on a
"grandiose scale," Ufology will only be "whispered" within
"mainstream science".


Frank










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                   Re: NASA - Time For A Change - Lehmberg

From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg.nul>
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 15:56:02 -0600
Fwd Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 17:14:54 -0500
Subject: Re: NASA - Time For A Change - Lehmberg


>From: Al Baier <abaier.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 13:05:52 -0600
>Subject: NASA - Time For A Change

>What has NASA really done? After 30+ years, and billions of
>dollars, we have a totally useless space station, a dangerously
>unsafe shuttle fleet, and yet another rover mission. After the
>Apollo missions (NASA's only really impressive achievement),
>they lost their direction. We should have people walking on Mars
>by now. Instead, we have another entrenched government
>bureaucracy, whose only apparent goal is to secure next year's
>funding. Gee, I wonder when the next NASA budget comes up for
>renewal?

>Questions:

>1. Why aren't there life-detecting devices on the rover
>missions?

...and why did Linda Howe get dismissive and insulting on air
responses when she very rationally inquired same on the C2Cam
show?

>2. Why is the color balance drastically skewed to red on all
>Mars photos?

A 'rose colored glasses' view down a 'primrose path' to a rock-
hound's 'damp dream'?

>3. Why is the Cydonia region carefully ignored?

...along with all the _other_ anomolous locations elsewhere on
Mars, the moon, and our own planet Earth?

>We have to pull the plug on NASA, reorganization just isn't
>going to do it.

And pull all the other plugs, while we're at it, on the current
administration across the board....!

>We have to get good, solid, PUBLIC discussions going about how
>we should fund planetary exploration. We certainly don't need
>the scientific/research establishment to tell us how to do it.

Hey! Use starwars SDI money! The Russians have invented a
countermeasure anyway.

>Our tax dollars are not at work at NASA.

Our tax dollars are not at work, period!

>Predictions (for the record):

>1. Liquid water exists on Mars now.


Verily!

>2. Microbial life, and forms up to lichens/fungi exist on Mars
>now.

Arthur C. Clark, no twinky himself, thinks there are 'trees' on
Mars!

>3. Their DNA will match that of earthly forms.

Gee -- I hope not. I want it to be *alien* as hell!

>4. Evidence of intelligent life in Mars' past will be proved (at
>the rate things are going, probably not in my lifetime).


I'll bet you're surprised! I'll bet the *balloon* bursts in less
than a decade!

>End of Rant

>and I still don't feel any better,


Hey! Go ahead! I do, just for having read it! [g].

Lehmberg.nul
www.AlienView.net

Photo Album: http://www.alienview.net/AVAlbum.htm
(send picture as attachment to Lehmberg.nul)
Splash page:  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AlienViewGroup/
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Radio Show Archives: Out of Service at this time...
http://www.alienview.net/N2Ltune.html








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                   Re: NASA - Time For A Change - Stanford

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 17:04:39 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 17:16:14 -0500
Subject: Re: NASA - Time For A Change - Stanford


>From: Al Baier <abaier.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 13:05:52 -0600
>Subject: NASA - Time For A Change

>Listerions:

>What has NASA really done? After 30+ years, and billions of
>dollars, we have a totally useless space station, a dangerously
>unsafe shuttle fleet, and yet another rover mission. After the
>Apollo missions (NASA's only really impressive achievement),
>they lost their direction.

Al, it will probably not make your down day any brighter, but
there's one very important thing you forgot:

The Hubble Space Telescope

It has facilitated and still is making possible more science
than all other space programs and space missions in the history
of humankind.

At least, you are right about one thing: the 'international
space station'. It seems to have been nothing so much as a State
Department aid program for Russia. :)

Ray Stanford

"You know my method. It is founded upon the observance of
trifles." -- Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery








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                Re: Bush & Cheney Did In Martians - Lehmberg

From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg.nul>
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 16:02:26 -0600
Fwd Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 17:17:43 -0500
Subject: Re: Bush & Cheney Did In Martians - Lehmberg


>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 06:51:28 -0800
>Subject: Bush & Cheney Did In Martians

>Source: Rush Limbaugh

> http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/site_030204/content/illustrating.guest.
html

>March 2, 2004


>Bush & Cheney Did In Martians

>NASA says that Mars was once wet enough to sustain life, but
>there's no life up there now. There's a lesson here. Something
>had to happen. Gay marriage, or some other combination of moral
>decay must've done them in.

<snip>

Rush Limbaugh is proof positive that every funeral, some more
than others, means improvement for an aggregate humanity.


Lehmberg.nul

EXPLORE "AlienViewGroup" at its HostPros URL.
http://www.alienview.net


JOHN FORD RESTORATION FUND -- John will be released eventually.
He'll need a tax free cash stake to get on his feet. Let's put
one together for him; the bigger it is -- the more attention he
gets. It could have been you. E-mail for detail. $450.00 pledged
-- $200.00 collected!

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What others see from afar, I leave far behind me."
- Giordano Bruno, scourged by the scabrously specious scurrilous.








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               Re: NASA-JPL May Have Cooked Their Own Goose! -

From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
Date: Wed,  3 Mar 2004 16:13:57 -0600
Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 07:29:04 -0500
Subject: Re: NASA-JPL May Have Cooked Their Own Goose! -


>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 15:50:55 -0500
>Subject: NASA-JPL May Have Cooked Their Own Goose!

>Those people are probably blind and petrified with
>paranoia of what colleagues on the outside might say
>if they should be even slightly wrong.  Such was not
>the way of the great scientific pioneers, and never
>will be.

>Is that a goose I smell cooking, somewhere? Hmmm...
>could that be blowing in from Pasadena?

Hey, here's something interesting... some Mars blueberries have
"stems."

http://tinyurl.com/2vvnb







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                 Re: JPL/NASA's Ho Hum Conference - Stanford

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 17:22:46 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 07:32:32 -0500
Subject: Re: JPL/NASA's Ho Hum Conference - Stanford


>From: Lan Fleming <lfleming6.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 12:35:19 -0600
>Subject: Re: JPL/NASA's Ho Hum Conference

>>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 18:03:21 -0500
>>Subject: Re: JPL/NASA's Ho Hum Conference

>>>From: Chaz Stuart <Daydisk2.nul>
>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 14:42:34 -0500 (EST)
>>>Subject: JPL/NASA's Ho Hum Conference

>>>Tue, Mar 2, 2004, 2:15pm

>>>Wow! They just announced that they believe water once existed on
>>>Mars! Gee! We didn't know this did we?

>>>Maybe in a few more years they'll tell us that there still is
>>>water there!

>>>I'm breathless...

>>>Mac, I'm afraid you were right! The geologists don't want to
>>>give up their cushy jobs.

>>Show us any evidence you believe you have that NASA-JPL
>>geologists (or any others) are hiding anything to loose their
>>jobs about if they should reveal it.

>Here is the evidence they're "hiding," but they're hiding it in
>full view:

>http://www3.telus.net/paulanderson/mer.html

>They're not actually hiding it, of course. They're just ignoring
>it or dismissing it with lame off-the-cuff explanations when
>someone has the bad manners to point out to them that these
>things are in their rover images. JPL doesn't actually need to
>hide evidence when it's much easier for them to just spin it
>away.

O.K., Lan. Thanks for the convenient link. I had seen those, but
it's nice to have it all together.

You seem to miss my point, however, which was:

How could that cause NASA-JPL geologists to loose their jobs???

That was my 'beef', not whether or not they might conveniently
ignore certain potentially very controversial things.


Thanks,

Ray Stanford

"You know my method. It is founded upon the observance of
trifles." -- Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery








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             Re: Montell Williams Show With Sylvia Brown - Lowry

From: Louise A. Lowry <ShnSassy1.nul>
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 16:21:35 -0600
Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 07:35:06 -0500
Subject: Re: Montell Williams Show With Sylvia Brown - Lowry


>From: Terry Groff <terry.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 15:39:20 -0600
>Subject: Montell Williams Show With Sylvia Brown

>I'm watching Montell right now with his regular Wednesday guest,
>Silvia Brown.

>One of the audience members had been a guest on his show before,
>telling of her abduction experience. This person believes she
>and a friend had been abducted by aliens on their way to a
>relative's house. They claim to have observed a reddish-orange
>orb descending and "crashing" near them. They then observed
>several "saucer" shaped objects emerge from the "crash" site.
>This, she said, had occurred at about 12:15 am. The next thing
>they remember is that it was now 6 am and they don't know what
>had happened to them during the almost 6 hours of missing time.

Terry, Sylvia Browne is a true believer of the aliens visiting
us here on earth, she has mentioned then plenty of times. In
fact, I have here auto tapes called "Angels and Spirit Guides".
On those she mentiones how we are being visited, even though she
does not go into to a greater detail of these aliens. I feel as
time goes on she will tell us more in how much she believes in
them.....


Love & Light
Louise
--
World Of The Strange http://www.worldofthestrange.com
Para-Discussion List: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Para-Discuss/








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                        Re: The Illuminati - Stanford

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 17:28:04 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 07:36:54 -0500
Subject: Re: The Illuminati - Stanford


>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 13:55:10 -0800
>Subject: Re: The Illuminati

>>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 21:38:06 -0500
>>Subject: Re: The Illuminati

<snip>

>>As for that (3), of course if they know it is, for example, an
>>extraterrestrial vehicle, it is not unidentified, by definition,
>>is it? Such are the semantic games officialdom plays.

><snip>

>Ray,

>I'll take it a step further - the afore mentioned points in
>conclusion of Project Blue Book are "out in out lies!"

<snip>

>4). In regards to their third point, and not even getting to
>"close encounters," etc., there is no known "man-made
>technology" that could duplicate the maneuvers of UFOs then and
>or now, therefore; "Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter
>necessitatem."


I cannot read the Latin, but the rest is well-said and
well- taken, Frank.

Excellent points, all.


Ray Stanford

"You know my method.  It is founded upon the observance of trifles." --
Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery








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                         Re: The Illuminati - White

From: Eleanor White <eleanor.nul>
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 17:34:36 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 07:38:06 -0500
Subject: Re: The Illuminati - White


>From: Steven Kaeser <steve.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 10:54:14 -0500
>Subject: Re: The Illuminati

<snip>

>>>This has been my point with UFOs over the years. Instead of
>>>wasting time trying to get skeptibunkers to give the evidence a
>>>fair shake; instead of wasting time to get some university on
>>>the band wagon to do some scientific study, we within the UFO
>>>field need to just go out and do it ourselves and not worry
>>>about whether so called "main stream science" will get on board.

>>Fortunately, that is exactly what some of us have been doing.

>Are we defining everyone who isn't already a part of the UFO
>community a "skeptibunker"? The field has been doing this on its
>own for 50 years, but I'm not sure that much has been
>accomplished. Somehow we have to reach out to mainstream
>science, and we need to do it differently than it's been done in
>the past.


I'm still waiting to hear what that New York City based group of
mainstream doctors, who have been quietly investigating abductee
reports and medical signs, have found to date.


Eleanor White








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               Re: NASA-JPL May Have Cooked Their Own Goose! -

From: Joe McGonagle <joe.mcgonagle.nul>
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 22:43:13 -0000
Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 07:39:20 -0500
Subject: Re: NASA-JPL May Have Cooked Their Own Goose! -


>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>To: <ufoupdaates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 15:50:55 -0500
>Subject: NASA-JPL May Have Cooked Their Own Goose!

<snip>

>When will the seemingly old-fashioned geologists at NASA-JPL
>wake up to recent advances in petrogenesis, etc., and realize
>that they have likely been showing us concretionary evidence of
>(at least) a former abundance of some kind of bacterial life in
>a (at least) once water-abundant environment of Mars?

>When? Well, I'm not holding my breath. Those people are
>probably blind and petrified with paranoia of what colleagues on
>the outside might say if they should be even slightly wrong.
>Such was not the way of the great scientific pioneers, and
>never will be.

>Is that a goose I smell cooking, somewhere? Hmmm... could that
>be blowing in from Pasadena?

I think it may be a bit early to get the knife and fork out,
Ray!

While I don't doubt your description of the concretion process
in an Earth environment, have you considered the effect of the
differences between the Earth environment and that on Mars? For
instance, I suspect that the dessication process on Mars would
be accelerated in comparison to Earth, and this could account
for the higher incidence of these "marbles".

Personally, I would be very surprised to find that (primitive)
life never gained a foothold on Mars, but I don't think that the
evidence to support the current or past existence of even
microbial life has been found yet.


Regards,

Joe








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   Mar > Mar 4

                        Re: The Illuminati - Stanford

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 17:52:09 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 07:41:23 -0500
Subject: Re: The Illuminati - Stanford


>From: Steven Kaeser <steve.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 10:54:14 -0500
>Subject: Re: The Illuminati

>>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 18:43:21 -0500
>>Subject: Re: The Illuminati

>>>From: Robert Gates <RGates8254.nul>
>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 02:12:13 EST
>>>Subject: Re: The Illuminati

>>>>From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
>>>>Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 13:34:22 EST
>>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>>Subject: Re: The Illuminati

>><snip>

>>>This has been my point with UFOs over the years. Instead of
>>>wasting time trying to get skeptibunkers to give the evidence a
>>>fair shake; instead of wasting time to get some university on
>>>the band wagon to do some scientific study, we within the UFO
>>>field need to just go out and do it ourselves and not worry
>>>about whether so called "main stream science" will get on board.

>>Fortunately, that is exactly what some of us have been doing.

>Are we defining everyone who isn't already a part of the UFO
>community a "skeptibunker"? The field has been doing this on its
>own for 50 years, but I'm not sure that much has been
>accomplished. Somehow we have to reach out to mainstream
>science, and we need to do it differently than it's been done in
>the past.

Steve, I wish all UFO researchers would take your advice to
heart.

Thanks for the suggestion. Any ideas on how that might be
accomplished? I agree that "differently" is an important
component.


Ray Stanford

"You know my method. It is founded upon the observance of
trifles." -- Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery








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   Mar > Mar 4

                 Re: Magaha/Friedman Debate Tape? - Friedman

From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul>
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 18:50:37 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 07:43:27 -0500
Subject: Re: Magaha/Friedman Debate Tape? - Friedman


>From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 13:50:08 -0600
>Subject: Magaha/Friedman Debate Tape?

>Mr. Friedman. Is the debate tape ready to ship?

I am pleased to report that the debate tapes (Myself vs. Major
James McGaha "Are Flying Saucers Real?") have just been
received. Only $15.00 including S & H from me at:


POB 958
Houlton
ME 04730-0958


It is 2 hours long and includes the Q and A session. The formal
debate took place at Middle Tennessee State University,
Murfreesboro, TN Jan. 28, 2004


Stan Friedman
www.stantonfriedman.com







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   Mar > Mar 4

             Re: Bigfoot Makes Appearance In Levittown - LeClair

From: Aaron LeClair <force.nul>
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 18:59:58 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 07:46:33 -0500
Subject: Re: Bigfoot Makes Appearance In Levittown - LeClair


>From: Louise A. Lowry <ShnSassy1.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 14:48:35 -0600
>Subject: Bigfoot Makes Appearance In Levittown

>This was in our Local paper yesterday...

>Source: The Bucks County Courier Times

>http://www.phillyburbs.com/pb-dyn/news/219-03022004-256522.html

>03-02-04

>Bigfoot makes appearance in Levittown
>Bucks County Courier Times

>Stuart Caesar likes to hunt in the wilderness of upstate
>Pennsylvania.

<snip>

>But if you ask me, after examining some of the photos, it looks
>like Bigfoot was wearing L.L. Bean snow boots as he rooted for
>grub.

Jeff Rense just did a show about bigfoot. Some guy is claiming
to be involved in the Patterson film. Says he dressed up in a
gorilla suit etc. You can listen to the show via the audio
archives, it's already up on the site. Personally, I currently
have problems with the claims, but I need to wait until more
info. comes out.


http://www.rense.com








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   Mar > Mar 4

                    Re: Identfy Friend Or Foe? - LeClair

From: Aaron LeClair <force.nul>
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 19:15:02 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 07:48:24 -0500
Subject: Re: Identfy Friend Or Foe? - LeClair


>From: Ray Dickenson <editor.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 19:43:30 +0000
>Subject: Identfy Friend Or Foe?

>As promised, here's a step further. Whether skeptics call it
>hypothesis or speculation, _if_ it's valid then skeptics and
>debunkers are being affected (or used), just as much as UFO &
>abduction experiencers and the rest of us.

>A proportion of UFO/abduction experiences are well attested as
>non-material, metamorphic, shape-changing. They've been covered
>in Vallee's and others' studies but no further conclusions have
>been thought possible, except maybe by some in recent "UFOs and
>Fairies" posts.

One theory has to do with Ball lightning hitting people in the
head and then they have seizures, black out, then get regressed
then talk about grey guys due to the hypnotherapist suggestion
etc... Funny, but it is another theory in regards to say the
accounts where a basket ball size light is near an abductee,
then they get parralyzed, soon after see little grey guys morph
out of the ball of light. Example, the Debbie Jordan Intruders
Case by Budd Hopkins.











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   Mar > Mar 4

                              Martian Cocktail

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 07:51:43 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 07:51:43 -0500
Subject: Martian Cocktail




Source: Florida Today

http://www.floridatoday.com/news/space/stories/2004a/030304editorial.htm

Mar 2, 2004


Martian Cocktail

Discovery that Mars was once wet enough for life may get us
closer to ancient cousins

So, we may not be alone after all.

It's a possibility that may have increased following NASA's
exciting announcement Tuesday that its Mars rover Opportunity
has discovered evidence that the Red Planet was once wet enough
to harbor life.

The spacecraft has not found proof of organisms alive now or in
the planet's past, but an analysis of rocks clearly shows "the
ground would have been suitable for life," said Steve Squyers, a
Cornell University scientist and leader of the rovers'
investigative team.

In fact, the mineral composition of the rocks studied by
Opportunity suggests the conditions may have even been magical
enough to allow organisms to flourish.

Who cares?

We all should, because if something did live on Mars eons ago it
may have been an ancient cousin.

You see, the findings are an important -- indeed, historic --
 step in NASA's quest to find out if life on Earth is unique, or
if the seeds that gave rise to humans are common throughout the
cosmos.

If they are, it opens the door to the chance that life forms
exist throughout the universe.

We're not talking about little green men buzzing around the
solar system in UFOs, but rather, that in the great biological
scheme of things, we could be just another multi-celled kid on
the cosmic block.

Right now, however, we don't want to get too far ahead of the
game.

NASA scientists are just starting to sift through the finds of
Opportunity and its sister ship, Spirit, both of which landed on
Mars in January. Much research remains to be done.

But these early finds are like nothing anyone has seen before,
and they make us wonder what astronauts might find if they could
walk on the Martian surface.

Ticket to Mars, anyone?


[UFO UpDates thanks 'Matin' in Toronto for the lead --ebk]







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   Mar > Mar 4

                           Filer's Files #11-2004

From: George A. Filer <Majorstar.nul>
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 19:56:46 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 08:06:17 -0500
Subject: Filer's Files #11-2004


Filer's Files #11-2004 Skywatch Investigations
George A. Filer, Director MUFON Eastern
March 3, 2004

My website is at: www.georgefiler.com

Webmaster: Chuck Warren

Mars Had Intelligent Life - Faces on the Mars ET Rock

The purpose of these files is to report the UFO eyewitness and
photo and /video evidence that occurs on a daily basis around
the world and in space.

These files make the assumption that extraterrestrial
intelligent life exists. Astronaut Edgar Mitchell says, "Aliens
are visiting Earth, The Day the

World Changed When Alien Faces and Writing Were Found on Mars,
Scotland Reports Finding a Skull artifact on Mars, Additional
Artifacts and Writing On Ornamented Stone, Faces On The ET Rock,
Theological Implications of Alien Life, We Are Not Alone,
Blueberries May Be Vegetation, Opportunity Rover Finds Strong
Evidence Meridiani Planum Was Wet, Massachusetts -- Strange
Bright Orange Light Hovering In Sky, New York =96 Witness Takes
Photos, New Jersey =96 UFO Caught on Video, Virginia =96 Greenish
glowing ball seen descending, Florida - Disk Seen By Four
Witnesses, Indiana - A Dark Triangle Moving Through The Sky, and
in Iowa =96

Three White Tear Drops.

Canada - The Craft Was Rotation and Emitting Colors, Venezuela -
Intense UFO Activity Amid Political Unrest, and France - Pilot
Report.


Astronaut Claims We Are Not Alone

The St. Petersburg Times, reports that Astronaut Edgar Mitchell
announced. "The Earth is being visited by extraterrestrials.=94
The sixth astronaut to walk on the moon told 200 people in the
audience. "We are not alone in the universe.=94 Further the
President's after Kennedy were not briefed on the situation.

The Day the World Changed With Faces With Writing on Mars

Filer's Research Institute and Filer's Files is proud to
announce the finding of evidence and artifacts that indicate
extra-terrestrial intelligent life on Mars. This announcement is
not made lightly and is based on multiple images from Mars Rover
Spirit's NASA/JPL images. I have discussed the announcement with
John Schussler the Director of MUFON and he cautioned my
enthusiasm and stated, "I can see the apparent E on the rock.
However, if you look at the other areas on the rock that catch
the angle of the light, it appears that the E is part of that
same light angle - an artifact not a real E.   This is a
situation similar to the Hoagland Mars face that was just a
light angle artifact. Be careful getting to a conclusion on this
one too quickly. Another photo with a light angle taken only a
few minutes earlier or later would confirm or deny this.=94

E above  Face    top or rock G  face

We admit the symbols are difficult to see on some computer
screens and need further verification. I have made numerous
unsuccessful calls to JPL, and left numerous messages. However,
we are working with over a dozen images taken by the Spirit
Rover that show the symbols and possibly two faces taken over
several minutes. When I was in Athens, Greece we saw many
similar markings, and broken carvings. It is my opinion that has
been confirmed by several others, that there are alien symbols
on the Martian rock nicknamed the "ET Rock". On the left upper
corner is a symbol that appears to be similar to our capital
letter E,the top of the E may be closed like a P. A second
symbol similar to our letter G is also apparent.

A possible face also appears to be carved in the right portion
of the rock with part of a second face in the center. The
combination of anomalous features seems to rule out natural
markings on the rock. The symbols are most similar to Greek or
old English writing. These anomalies are shown on both right and
left panoramic cameras eliminating camera angle as a possible
cause.

We can make the assumption that based on the evidence, that
intelligent alien life once existed on Mars and that the aliens
looked humanoid and used symbols for writing similar to our own.
The symbols appear to have been chiseled into the rock and the
faces show form in three dimensions. This rock may have been
carried to this position in the Gusev Crater by a possible flood
or catastrophic meteor hit. Readers of Filer's Files have found
structural shapes, possible vegetation, a network of glassy
tubes, artistic imagery and sculptured faces from satellite data
- all that infer activity by a former civilization. Norman
Bryden has a complete series of photos at:

I would caution that these are initial findings and the images
have been enhanced to bring out detail. However, they can be
seen on multiple JPL images taken on February 16 and 17, 2004,
(sol 43 and 44). The symbols are shown in at least a dozen
separate images, taken by several different cameras including
panoramic left and right cameras and navigation cameras.

None of the other images show symbols ruling out transmission
errors, fakery, camera angle, and camera dust, etc. The
impression of a face seems to appear in several sun angles and
with a couple different cameras. The objects do not appear
natural and suggest they have been designed by intelligent
extraterrestrials.

Scots Reports Finding A Skull

Joe writes, "Like all photos it may just be camera angle or a
trick of the light, however it does look like a bird or animal
skull. It can be viewed at this NASA sol photo:

http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/2/p/016/2P127793693EFF0327P2371L7=
M1.HTML

And I have also attached a small portion of the photo for your
perusal. Thanks to Joe (www.uforth.com)

Conway Costigan writes, "The Spirit PanCam image Sol 52 ID:
2P130989760EFF1120P2426R2M1 shows what may be a fragment of a
statue piece of ornamented stone that appears to be artistically
carved. It seems to have a series of Y's not unlike the ET Rock.
If the area is examined closely, it has an interlaced design.
Funny that NASA would put this one front and center on their
main page." Thanks to Conway Costigan

BC, a professional photographer who is one of our top analysts
says, "It's a possibility the photo is a fake perpetrated by
whom? The "letters"could just be natural formations that
resemble letters but the odds of having two letters of similar
type face on a rock by chance would be beyond astronomical.
Remember that I also don't like the looks of some of the shadows
in the picture. At least four black shadows appear to just be
"things" painted out to resemble shadows. Having the original
photos would make a real difference but we will never see those
even though we paid for them.=94 Thanks to BC

Faces On The ET Rock

Actually there may be more than one face and this is speculation
on my part, becaue I see eyes, lips, cheek, and chin visible.
The lips seem rather wide. A damaged face can be seen in the
center of the rock, that was likely damaged when Gusev Crater
was formed. We admit these are forms that exist in the eye of
the beholder, but many others besides me have commented on the
face. My grand daughter Anastasia saw the faces immediately, and
showed a printed picture to her class. Everyone claimed to see
them. JPL may not agree with our analysis of the ET rock but in
my opinion it sculptured. I have seen similar ruins in Greece,
Iran, Egypt, Israel, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, and Italy. Once we
realize that life exists through out the universe and is
visiting us, the detection becomes much easier.

You may not agree with me, but believe your own eyes.

Mars Stadium - Mars stadium also appears to have writing on it
that look like an A and C symbols on right and center stadium.
This view was taken from a satellite overhead and shows a
depression surrounded by a high structure.

A and C or G

We know there are hundreds of planets outside our solar system
and the history of the ascent of humans indicates we had outside
help. It is my opinion that soon it will become apparent that
extraterrestrials have been visiting and helping us for
thousands of years. For example, writing developed in Egypt
overnight.


Theological Implications of Alien Life

Some are worried about the theological implications if life is
recognized on another planet. The Bible is full of stories about
clouds that carry people and angels. Some of the description
reminds me of terraforming the planet. The Koran, the scriptures
of Islam uses the word =91universes' and makes it clear that the
cosmos contains other creations. Buddhism and Hinduism contain
evidence of extraterrestrials and welcome them. It is time to
realize we are not alone in the universe, trade and interaction
with the extra terrestrials. With JPL's new announcements of
water on Mars it is apparent that both primitive Earth and Mars
were ready for life. Whether God brought life or it was with
panspermia. The next logical question is did life totally
disappear or did it continue and persist until today.

The face also appears similar to faces in Cydonia and Survis
Major. The face appears in 3D but is apparently damaged, perhaps
by the impact of a meteorite. Other debris is scattered around
the area.

Actually, the Darwinian theory of evolution may be in question
if Martians look the same as Humans ,because then we both
required a mutual creator. And God said, "Let us make man in our
image," Genesis 26

Water On Mars

Water exists on Mars in large quantities in polar caps of Mars
and each spring a great deal melts and appears to move toward
the equator. There are two places where water is known to exist
in vast quantities, right at the surface. The permanent ice cap
at the North Pole is larger than Texas and 3,000 feet thick.
This would provide a civilization enough water to irrigate and
grow food. We now have many indications that a civilization once
existed on Mars and may continue despite the dry cold landscape.
The recent Spirit Rover landing on Mars seems to point to
underground water due to the mud like surface. Just when we
expected a startling announcement the Spirit stopped sending
data. It was quiet for two weeks and just as mysteriously,
started broadcasting again. Layering can be seen by
"Opportunity=94 in a dry lake bed. Micro-organisms, algae and
other life forms swathed in biological antifreeze could be
lurking just a few feet under the ice, scientists say. These
living Martians might hibernate for the winter and come out each
spring. Many areas of Mars are shown to be green in the spring
indicating some sort of growth. It is doubtful rocks can change
color over vast areas the size of France just because of warmer
weather. The water appears to move from one area to another in
tube like objects that cover hundreds of miles. Life exists in
harsh climates on Earth in both our Arctic and Antarctic ice
sheets. A system of tubes or pipes are visible on many images
that could carry water. Since we discovered strange alien
writing on Mars, I have been looking for some connection to
human symbols. For example, the Egyptian symbol for water is
^^^^^^^^^ that look very similar to Martian tubes.

We Are Not Alone

Sixteen million years ago a meteorite slammed into Mars
exploding with the power of a nuclear weapon and sending giant
fragments of rock into space that eventually landed in Anartica
about 13,000 years ago. Recently, some was examined by
scientists and in August 1996, scientists from NASA surprised
the world with the announcement that Mars in the distant past
revealed evidence of primitive life on a

Martian rock dubbed ALH 8400.

The ET Rock will likely become more famous because it announces
the discovery of intelligent extraterrestrial life. E and G like
symbols carved into the three foot rock are significant
indications of intelligent life. The three parallel lines that
help make the E are unlikely in nature, the almost perfect
circle of the G or O is even more unlikely. The mathematical are
astronomical that these two letters could be carved by nature.
Preliminary identification also makes it likely that other
carvings are present. Each letter has lines emphasizing the
symbols.

Opportunity Rover Finds Strong Evidence Meridiani Planum Was Wet

On March 2, 2004 JPL scientists announced the part of Mars that
NASA's Opportunity rover is exploring was soaking wet in the
past as we have predicted for several years. The rover found
evidence in a rock outcrop and the presence of sulfates, and
niches where crystals grew. The scientists are convinced that
liquid water once flowed through these rocks. It changed their
texture, and it changed their chemistry," said Dr. Steve Squyres
of Cornell University, Ithaca, NY, principal investigator for
the science instruments on Opportunity and its twin, Spirit.
"NASA launched the Mars

Exploration Rover mission specifically to check for water and an
environment that could possibly have been hospitable to life.
Today we have strong evidence for an exciting answer:

Pictures from the rover's panoramic camera and microscopic
imager reveal the target rock, dubbed "El Capitan," is
thoroughly pocked with indentations about a centimeter (0.4
inch) long and one-fourth or less that wide, with apparently
random orientations. This distinctive texture is familiar to
geologists as the sites where crystals of salt minerals form
within rocks that sit in briny water.  Round particles the size
of BBs are embedded in the outcrop. From shape alone, these
spherules might be formed from volcanic eruptions, from lofting
of molten droplets by a meteor impact, or from accumulation of
minerals coming out of solution inside a porous, water-soaked
rock.

Blueberries May Be Vegetation

Our scientists at Filer Research feel these are forms algae or
lichens. Dr. Annamarie Johnstone writes, "The =91blue berries in
the Opportunity Rover image may be fruticose type rock lichens
(symbiotic plants composed of fungi and algae.) Forming a
mutualistic relationship, the dense skin of the fungus protects
the interior algal cells from desiccation, in turn, the
photosynthetic algae, using sunlight, and produce food for the
fungus.

Lichens are brightly colored pioneer plants in an ecosystem,
capable of "shutting down" metabolically, when subjected to
unfavorable environmental conditions. As a result, they are able
to survive extreme heat, cold and drought.

Lichens grow only when moisture is available, so the amount of
moisture governs their rate of growth. Fungal acids of
fruticose lichens decompose rock into soil, thereby providing
necessary substrate for succession plants, such as mosses; hence
lichens are designated pioneer species of bare-rock habitats.
 Composed mainly of carbohydrates with a small percentage of
protein, rock lichen species can be a food source for animals
and man.

Purportedly, the Mars Rovers are not equipped to analyze organic
or carbon based substances, only inorganic substances can be
analyzed and verified, an unfortunate oversight by scientific
planners, to say the least.=94

Thanks to Dr. Johnstone

The frigid community is made up mostly of primitive creatures
called Cyanobacteria, which live in tightly-woven groups called
microbial mats.

The microbes produce chemicals that act as anti-freeze and UV
shields,

protecting them from frigid temperatures and from sunlight,
which is known

to pass relatively easily through water ice. I happen to live on
a lake and most years the lake freezes but the fish and living
organisms are protected

by the ice which insulates the lake life against the cold
temperatures that can drop to minus 60 degrees Fahrenheit on
Mars. There also appears to be salts and minerals that act as
antifreeze. Many photos appear to show ice over rivers and
lakes.

If this data ever reaches the public at large, perhaps our wars
will seem less significant and we shall realize we are not alone
in the universe. Interacting with alien intelligence could bring
prosperity and peace to a troubled world.

Massachusetts -- Strange Bright Orange Light Hovering In Sky

WAREHAM -- It was about 8:00 PM on a wednesday February 11,
2004, that two other people and I were in on the second floor in
a room watching TV and I noticed an orange light just hovering
in the sky. It appeared to close and too bright to be a star.
This is the 3rd or 4th time I've seen this object in roughly the
same place. The object generally has 2 or 3 planes in its
general vicinity, sometimes appearing to head towards the craft
only to pass under it. I've seen several other reports of
strange hovering orange lights and that is the only reason I am
reporting this. The light generally hovers for 10-15 minutes,
sometimes changing intensity then disappears, without actually
moving. I have seen the light move on one occasion, very slowly
a couple of degrees in the sky then disappear. On the 11th of
February we got in the car to pick up a friend from night school
and the light was obstructed by trees when we saw what looked a
shooting star of the same oranges color of the light flying
overhead at a speed not possible for any aircraft I've ever
seen, and if it was a meteorite, the odds of it coming from the
same apparent direction as the light we saw are most likely
astronomical. Thanks to Peter Davenport UFOcenter

New York =96 Witness Takes Photos

STATEN ISLAND =96 Tops writes, "I'm 37 years old, and when I was
about 14 years old, in 1983, its been a long time.=94 My friend
and I were at a nearby pond and we looked up and saw the
strangest ship. I will never forget it. It was oval to cigar
shaped with lights around the whole ship. It moved very slowly
back,forward, up and down .We both froze and were shocked. I
said what in the world was that to my friend. He was shaking
,and I had goose bumps all over. For 2 minnutes were still
looking at this ship, and then, it took off in a blink of an
eye, I mean like turn your lights off and on real fast, sorry
its hard to explain ,but there's know way in my mind that ship
was from this planet, please response thank you Topthat97

TRUXTON =96 The witness was standing on his front porch at 6 AM,
on February 27, 2004, and noticed a very bright star in the
clear sky, which appeared to be hovering over the top of the
tree line. He states, "As I continued to look up at this star,
it suddenly started moving slowly right to left while making a
humming sound. It stayed above the tree line for approximately
15 minutes. I called my husband at work and he informed me to
get the camera. I took three pictures of the object. I am hoping
the photos got a clear shot of what I witnessed. After the
pictures were taken, the object lowered itself behind the tree
line. Thanks to Peter Davenport UFOcenter

New Jersey =96 UFO Caught on Video

ALPHA - On February 27, 2004, when the husband came home, his 12
year old son and wife were very excited/nervous saying they had
just seen a UFO and caught it on video. They said, the crafts
were close, quiet and moved unlike airplanes. I watched a few
minutes of the tape and being an airplane mechanic by trade,
they did not have a classic light pattern of any commercial
aircraft. It appears on tape to be three objects close together.
Too close together off the sides moving irregularly, and one in
center more classic, disc shaped, spinning as my wife said "Like
a top".Intrigued I went upstairs to try to see what I just saw
on tape for myself and again I caught on video this time what
appeared, a very far distance off at this time, maybe 8-10
miles, and an unusually bright object over eastern Pennsylvania.
It was most certainly not in the airplane flight path as planes
taking off from Allentown appeared to be moving from the NW to
the SE towards me at a steady speed. This object moved from the
east due west.I've never really believed but it was
unidentifiable to me. It was strange. Bright at times moving
rapidly in the distance then gone. All total maybe 20 minutes.
Thanks to Peter Davenport UFOcenter

Virginia - Greenish Gowing Ball Seen Descending

FREDERICKSBURG -- My husband and I were standing on the balcony
on February 8, 2004, of our second floor apt at 12:49 AM. In
Fredericksburg, we live near the armory. We saw something not
really sure of the shape. We were amazed because we have not
seen anything falling from the sky with this strange greenish
glow. There wasn't a sound. It looked like it was falling in
slow motion, toward the Alum Springs Park. The sky was clear and
you could see the stars fine. What ever this was did not look
like any shooting star I have ever seen. I hope we were not the
only ones to have caught a glimpse of this.Thanks to Peter
Davenport UFOcenter

Florida - Disk Seen By Four Witnesses

WEST PALM BEACH =96 The witness was called to the balcony to see a
UFO by three other witnesses around 11:50, PM, on February 11,
2004. The witness states, "So, I look out and it has an orange
shade/glow and it was oval/plate shaped.=94 The other witnesses
told me before it came it was really close to them. But it was
now about four miles away. Little by little it started to fade,
then when it did,I kept staring at its location but it had
disappeared. It moved from one location to another in a quick
flash,leaving a lightening type fade from its movement. It kept
doing this for about 5 more minutes when it finally disappeared.
I and my house mates were amazed. We're still a little shaken.
Thanks to Peter Davenport DavenportUFOcenter

Indiana - A Dark Triangle Moving Through The Sky.

BLOOMINGTON =96 The witness was at a friend's apartment on
February 15, 2004, and I noticed that there was a large
triangular object moving westward through the sky without any
lights or sound at 10:50 PM. It moved slowly and I could see its
outline because it blocked out the background behind it and it
also reflected a small amount of light from the city below.
Thinking that my eyes were playing tricks on me or my glasses
had a glare, I removed my glasses and was still able to see the
object and the small amount of light reflected from it. I
watched it until it became hard to differentiate from the night
sky. At that time I ran inside to get my friend.Thanks to Peter
Davenport UFOcenter

Iowa - Three White Tear Drops

TITONKA -- Watching stars for physics class we saw three white
tear drop shaped unidentified objects hovering in the sky for
about a minute on February 10, 2004, at 10:30 PM. They appeared
out of no where (or we didn't see where they came from), hovered
in sky for 45 sec to 1 min....very high up, kind of hard to
see...they graduatually faded away...whitish bright teardrop
shape in a triangle shape formation.Thanks to Peter Davenport
UFOcenter

Canada - The Craft Was Rotating and Emitting Colors

SPLIT LAKE, MB -- The light was not moving but it was rotating
all the colors on the color spectrum on February 5, 2004, at 9
PM. It was in the air over the lake. I saw the same thing in the
same area a few years back. I am a University graduate with a
degree in Political Science, why are these things here? I will
be attending Law School this fall.

BRITISH COLUMBIA -- Two witnesses on February 29, 2004, at 9:30
p.m. saw a very large, bright white object in the northwestern
sky, that stayed in one place for about ten minutes, then
appeared to fade in brightness slowly, then it gradually moved
north over the period of about 15 minutes. It then slowly
disappeared from view, it was far too bright to be a star, and
did not move in the fashion of any satellite that I have ever
seen.

The altitude, if it was in the atmosphere, was about the same as
the Grouse mountain range if being viewed from Vancouver.  The
color was bright white, just like a very bright star, although
it was about twice to three times the size of Venus. I did see
one plane fly right in line with the object, although the plane
was very far away Brian Vike, Director  HBCC UFO Research Home
- Phone 250 845 2189  email: hbccufo.nul Website:
http://www.hbccufo.com

Venezuela - Intense UFO Activity Amid Political Unrest

Caracas - Escalante Hector Arturo writes, "While Venezuela's
political future is debated with fights in the streets between
adversaries and supporters of the Hugo Chavez government, a
strange phenomenon, has been manifesting itself in Venezuelan
airspace. UFOs were seen in the October during the uprising and
photographs of a UFO over Caracas were taken. Two months later,
a new chance photo of a UFO was taken during a renewed and well-
attended social demonstration in Caracas, creating even further
expectations as regards the phenomenon's manifestations. The
time was between noon and one o'clock in the afternoon. Another
"strange" thing was photographed. It was a dark, elongated
object over the western area of Caracas. During the Mass
Demonstration of February 4, for the third consecutive time it
was possible for me to obtain another UFO image.

At the time, the political situation was worsening. In this new
image, the UFO appears to be hovering over the central districts
of the city, just as a multitude of government supporters met in
the La Rinconada sector to pay tribute to those fallen during
the attempted coup and conmemorate Chavez's first participation
in Venezuelan politics. The November 28 photo with the February
4 one, were in almost the exact location. They give the
impression that this was a strategic placmeent to carry out a
mission that requires their presence during said moments.
Surprising, isn't it? This is where the matter rests. Images can
be seen at www.ovniaventura.com Thanks to Scott Corrales.

New Jersey =96 Children's Abductions Investigation

MULLICA HILL -- Investigator Evelyn Galson reports, "Ann has
been upset because they have been taking her children now. For
awhile she was being left alone and instead they took Steven and
Michele. She would become paralyzed while in bed and she would
hear the aliens speak to her, in her mind. They would say," Be
calm, don't struggle, we're not going to harm them. They
interest us." But she would find marks on her children which
would upset her greatly. In 1999 she took Steven to her doctor,
because she found puncture wounds on him. There were three
puncture wounds in the form of a triangle behind his knee. The
doctor didn't know what could have done it and it took 4 1/2
weeks before the marks disappeared. Then in 2003 she found the
same puncture wounds behind the knee of her daughter, Michele.
Her marks only took 10 days to vanish.=94

When Steven is taken he sees the aliens as Emperor Zurg from
"Toy Story" but later he sees them as the grays. He says he gets
taken through the floor and that he was in the living room and
he saw his daddy and their pet cat. When Steven goes to bed he
tells his Mom that he wants his socks on, Ann told him he should
take off his socks at night to let his feet air. Steven won't
listen to her,he has to have his socks on when he goes to bed.
When they take him he doesn't want his feet to get cold. I guess
he wasn't wearing them one night when they took him and his feet
were cold, so he wants to be prepared now. Another day when Ann
and Steven were watching the show called, "Stargate SG1", Steven
said," Oh, look Mommy they're my friends, but they don't look
just like that, they look a little different." He was talking
about the alien characters in the show, that sort of look like
grays. One night Ann woke up and couldn't move, but she could
hear Michele on the baby monitor, she was talking to someone who
was in her room. Ann knew they were in there with Michele, but
she could do nothing to stop them from taking her child. Thanks
to: Investigator: Evelyn Galson

Kenneth Jankowski writes, "I can confirm Steven's birth
experience as reported in Filer's Files #9, I also had pre-birth
dialogue, and a choice of three women for moms.=94 Over time he
will remember more, if you can show him a black and white photo
of his mom and a color one, and then ask which picture looked
like the Mother he picked. He should pick black and white photo
for that is what this side is compared to over there. In
November 1956, I was born breach, and had the cord around my
neck in case I changed my mind. I remember going down a curvy
tunnel with light and dark hues of gray, then entering the
operating room at ceiling level and seeing a clock 5:56 AM. Then
I entered my body while exiting my mom. Then that was it, I do
remember some of the discussions I had pre-birth. I was
volunteered, at that time against my will; I had asked for
certain factors and was denied. A funny line now that I used was
"I don't want to go down there, people stink!!! And I chose my
mom because I had been with her before. Thanks to:
 KennethJankowski  KennethJankowski.nul

France - Pilot Report -SVC10 Flight London to Nairobi

A pilot reports about his SVC10 flight, direct London to Nairobi
on a night flight in 1971: Flying over France, at 30,000 feet,
above a layer of alto-stratus cloud, whose tops were sitting
about 10,000 feet below us, I saw out to the left, below us
five lighted 21 foot objects, in loose formation. They were
orange/yellowish, not too bright, located between us and the
clouds, and pacing us. As I was captain, I turned the aircraft
this way and that, so all crew could see them. As suddenly as
they had appeared, they suddenly stopped and slowly sank through
the clouds causing a lovely glow for several seconds. We made no
effort to contact ATC.We carried UFO report forms in our
operations flight boxes in the Super VC 10 aircraft in East
African Airways but any mention of UFOs put you in the 'cookie'
category, so we didnt bother to make them out. This was despite
the famous East African Airways DC3 sighting, well documented in
many books, where the plane got permission to leave the airway
and fly once round Mt Kilimanjaro, to allow all passengers and
crew to view a five kilometer long solid metal 'ship' sitting
calmly above the mountain on a crystal clear day and NOBODY had
a camera on board. Thanks to Brian Vike, Director HBCC UFO
Researchhttp://www.hbccufo.comNASA

For This Research To Continue Your Support Is Critical

Dear Readers - Filer's Files has been brought to you free on a
weekly basis for seven years. As of January 2004, I'm requesting
a donation of $2 a month or $24 per year to enable me to
continue with Filer's Files. These files can not exist without
your help. Donations can be sent to:
 https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr for majorstar.nul

You may use Paypal, Visa, American Express, or Master charge.
You can also mail your check to

George Filer, 222 Jackson Road, Medford, NJ 08055.

Many Thanks for your donations

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MUFON UFO JOURNAL -- For more detailed monthly investigative
reports subscribe to the MUFON JOURNAL. A MUFON membership
includes the Journal and costs only $45.00 per year. To join
MUFON or to report a UFO go to http://www.mufon.com/. To ask
questions contact MUFONHQ.nul or HQ.nul Mention that
I recommended you for membership. "The MUFON Journal is now
accepting qualified advertising, please call 1 (303) 932-7709
for more information."

Filer's Files is copyrighted 2004 by George A. Filer, all rights
reserved. Readers may post the COMPLETE files on their Web Sites
if they credit the Newsletter and its editor by name and list
the date of issue. These reports and comments are not
necessarily the OFFICIAL MUFON viewpoint. Send your letters to
Majorstar.nul Sending mail automatically grants permission
for us to publish and use your name. Please state if you wish to
keep your name or e-mail confidential. CAUTION, MOST OF THESE
ARE INITIAL REPORTS AND REQUIRE FURTHER INVESTIGATION.


George A. Filer
www.georgefiler.com/








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                   Re: Filer's Files #10-2004 - Goldstein

From: Josh Goldstein <lovolution.nul>
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 17:36:17 -0800
Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 08:10:01 -0500
Subject: Re: Filer's Files #10-2004 - Goldstein


>From: Aaron LeClair <force.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 16:40:22 -0500
>Subject: Re: Filer's Files #10-2004

<snip>

>Anyone know Jeff Rense personally? I don't, but been wondering
>why he has Filer on so much...

>Hurts thecredibility of his show I would imagine.


In my opinion Jeff Rense has George Filer on his site is that
they both lack credibility. Filer has his own wacky opinions and
I believe Rense uses the most dubious sources on his site.

In the past I have posted messages regarding Rense and they
contained specifics. You can look them up in the archives. I
believe Rense is antisemitic with his support of Ernst Zundel, a
notorious neo-Nazi holocaust denier. Rense was trying to prevent
him from being deported from Canada. There are other things he
has posted that reinforce my belief that Rense is not just
anti-Israel but truly antisemitic.

I believe that Rense in general is a biased conspiracy nut and
hate monger who appeals to people who do not bother to look for
the truth but need his site to reinforce their beliefs. He uses
Barry Chamish (a fellow Jew) for his UFO stories. Chamish has no
credibility reporting on UFO issues but just spreads his
unfounded opinions. In Israel, Chamish is considered a real nut
case.

I feel Rense's credibility is less than zero and he runs a site
that features people lacking credibility and lacking
credentials.


Josh








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                     UFOs 'The Little Red Hen' & Disney

From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 21:20:38 EST
Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 08:16:41 -0500
Subject: UFOs 'The Little Red Hen' & Disney


Wow, have I had a day to remember!

You might ask from the heading to this post, "What the heck is
he trying to do now?"


Let me elaborate.

I work in comics and animation as I've stated before. For years
we in the animation community have been battling for our lives.
The biggest monster being the Walt Disney Co. itself and it's
head a man named Michael Eisner. I'm sure you're reading the
headlines and know where this is going. Yet it does have a lot
to do with the battles UFO researchers, experiencers undergo.

I was more fortunate than most animators who relied on Disney
for their bread and butter. I created books and properties, they
get picked up by studios and agents and the animators animate
them. I wanted to see what was going on when things started
getting shakey back in the mid 90s. To make a long story short,
a man who ran Disney named Frank Wells died in a mysterious
tragic accident leaving a man named Michael Eisner the boss of
all bosses.

Things started going downhill right then. All kinds of nonsense
and I watched as thousands of animators who had created the most
popular and profitable animated flicks get fired and paychecks
slashed to ribbons.

The fight was on and we fought for years. Things came to a head
last year when more animators got fired, Mr. Roy Disney left and
we all started a grassroots campaign to set things right. At
first no one would hear our pleas and only a rare few popular
papers and news sources would give us the time of day. Jeff
Rense was the only guy who would listen and had one of our
community leaders speak for several hours. That got something
started. Then the ball kept rolling and finally Mr. Disney
stepped up to the plate with his partner Stan Gold and really
put the heat on the Disney board of directors. The fight
escalated and now mainstream news got involved and focused on
the cause.

Jeff Rense again gave us a podium. The fight continued. Then the
big board meeting today and a record breaking 43% of the
shareholders dissented.

I got to see something rare nowadays and that is how when
educated, the public will stand up and fight. That brought me to
the subject of Ufology.

How could Ufology get it's message across? What was Ufology
lacking? It dawned on me that it was two things:

1.) Making the subject 'real' to the populace. 2.) Showing the
ramifications of 'not' doing something.

That's what Mr. Disney and my colleagues did. It worked.

We're not out of the woods yet, there's still some fussin' and
fightin' to go but the damage is done for the better in the long
run.

The Disney debacle didn't hit full steam til Mr. Disney stood up
and showed the stockholders, public and press the damage the
board had done and the ramifications if they didn't take a
stand. That hit home and at the meeting which was webcast. There
were many times I thought it would come to blows!

That's what Ufology has to do. Not come to blows, but reassess
the presentation and get out there and make the real data, not
the proclamation, speculation, the real science and history so
that the public can see what's going on and digest it.

Many of you have been fighting this battle from the ground floor
up. That's one thing I always liked about Ufology, I saw people
who didn't give a darn what the press or other people said, I
saw people who truly believed there is an issue and stood up
come what may.

In the old days Ufologists were corralled to small publishers,
some press and lectures. Now there are radio shows, websites, tv
specials a veritable cornucopea of varied information. The
public knows there's something screwy going on, yet there's not
enough reality on what the coverups and character attacks mean.

That's where good science and presentation come in. The big
questions have to be addressed. Primarily: "What's all this UFO
stuff have to do with me and the price of bread? " See?

UFOs aren't interrupting the tv schedule nor the shipments of
bread and beer and cigarettes so there's no mad rush of support
by the public. Yet we that study Ufology have a far better look
at how control groups within and without our government have
engaged in dangerous actions that are long overdue the attention
of our lawmakers. We've seen thanks to the sharp scientists and
researchers in Ufology how the mechanics of disinformation work
and why.

So the lesson is like the story of  "The Little Red Hen"where a
hen wanted help to make a loaf of bread and the other farm
animals got lazy and wouldn't participate yet when the bread was
done they were denied any bread due to their apathetic conduct.
I saw that over the past several years in the animation, film,
TV and entertainment industry. People sat back and did nothing
when they knew damned well others were being subjected to
injustices. Now the tables have turned and guess what? You know.

Same with Ufology. Something is going on and in the long run
when the truth comes out the big question will be,

"What did you do about it?"


Best,

Greg








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                    Re: Filer's Files #10-2004 - LeClair

From: Aaron LeClair <force.nul>
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 19:07:46 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 08:18:29 -0500
Subject: Re: Filer's Files #10-2004 - LeClair


>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 15:09:55 -0500
>Subject: Re: Filer's Files #10-2004

>>From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Wed,  3 Mar 2004 08:23:07 -0600
>>Subject: Re: Filer's Files #10-2004

>>>From: Aaron LeClair <force.nul>
>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 16:40:22 -0500
>>>Subject: Re: Filer's Files #10-2004

>>>Anyone know Jeff Rense personally? I don't, but been wondering
>>>why he has Filer on so much...

>>>Hurts the credibility of his show I would imagine.

>>Not any more than the constant barrage of veiled anti-Semitic
>>stuff jamming his website. Used to be Rense was a relatively
>>decent source of UFO-related info, but now the noise has
>>definitely buried the signal.

Anti-semitic stuff? Haven't seen that, unless you are refering
to the articles on Mel Gibson "The Passion" movie which some
people consider anti-semetic.

I would agree that Rense has some other guests that make him
look bad etc. Haven't seen anything anti-semetic yet though.








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                        Re: The Illuminati - Stanford

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 20:08:47 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 08:36:48 -0500
Subject: Re: The Illuminati - Stanford


>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 14:19:34 -0800
>Subject: Re: The Illuminati

>>From: Steven Kaeser <steve.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 10:54:14 -0500
>>Subject: Re: The Illuminati

>>Are we defining everyone who isn't already a part of the UFO
>>community a "skeptibunker"? The field has been doing this on its
>>own for 50 years, but I'm not sure that much has been
>>accomplished. Somehow we have to reach out to mainstream
>>science, and we need to do it differently than it's been done in
>>the past.

<snip>

>Until the powers-that-be allow it, or an event takes place on a
>"grandiose scale," Ufology will only be "whispered" within
>"mainstream science".

Steve is right.

'Ufology' is responsible for its failures, and not 'the powers
that be'. It is an 'easy out' to plead for 'disclosure', seeking
a political solution, but science is not done that way. Those
who blame their failures on others seldom succeed in anything
really important.


Ray Stanford

"You know my method. It is founded upon the observance of
trifles." -- Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery








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               Re: Tracing The Flow Of The Gulf Breeze Money -

From: Kenny Young <ufo.nul>
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 22:42:56 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 08:37:50 -0500
Subject: Re: Tracing The Flow Of The Gulf Breeze Money -


>From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 21:59:29 -0400
>Subject: Re: Tracing The Flow Of The Gulf Breeze Money

>I will go with Bruce any time based on his
>far more careful, detailed, objective explanations for any
>conclusion he has reached in the past.

Ed Walters too? Don't forget, he's part of the crew.

But you must be right, of course. How silly of us to examine
this case and how unnecessary for the case data to be
challenged, and what a crime to examine the motivations of its
promoters and what a distraction to look for a money trail After
all, the Gulf Breeze investigation stands as an example of naked
science at its best, the essence of impartial, objective and
unadulterated inquiry.

NOT!

Kenny Young








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                         Re: The Illuminati - Gates

From: Robert Gates <RGates8254.nul>
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 23:49:40 EST
Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 08:45:28 -0500
Subject: Re: The Illuminati - Gates


>From: Steven Kaeser <steve.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 10:54:14 -0500
>Subject: Re: The Illuminati

>>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 18:43:21 -0500
>>Subject: Re: The Illuminati

>>>From: Robert Gates <RGates8254.nul>
>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 02:12:13 EST
>>>Subject: Re: The Illuminati

<snip>

>>>This has been my point with UFOs over the years. Instead of
>>>wasting time trying to get skeptibunkers to give the evidence a
>>>fair shake; instead of wasting time to get some university on
>>>the band wagon to do some scientific study, we within the UFO
>>>field need to just go out and do it ourselves and not worry
>>>about whether so called "main stream science" will get on board.

>>Fortunately, that is exactly what some of us have been doing.

>Are we defining everyone who isn't already a part of the UFO
>community a "skeptibunker"? The field has been doing this on its

Skeptibunkers are those such as Phil Klass and others whose
theory in life is "It can't be so therefore it isn't" and "that
all evidence points to any explaination other then ET."

>own for 50 years, but I'm not sure that much has been
>accomplished. Somehow we have to reach out to mainstream
>science, and we need to do it differently than it's been done in
>the past.

Why do we need to reach out to main stream science? So called
main stream science is essentially a fractured crystal of
different agendas, theories, beliefs and interpretations of the
evidence. The so called mainstream geologists couldn't care less
what the so called mainstream astronomers are doing unless of
course it pertains to something they are doing and visa versa.
Give main stream science 10 years and many of the loudly
proclaimed theories, research and evidence will be discredited
and reinterpreted to suit the latest so called findings. Give
main stream science 20-40 years and much of what is taught in
college today will be yawned at.

Like I have said instead of wasting time with main stream
science, Ufology needs to do the same thing the Geologists,
Astronomers do, i.e. work in their own field, publish their own
findings and do their own thing. To be fair it is already being
done to a point. Bruce, Stan and some others are already doing
it.


Cheers,

Robert








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              PRG Press Release - X-Conference - March 2, 2004

From: Stephen Bassett <ParadigmRG.nul>
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 00:04:31 EST
Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 08:47:23 -0500
Subject: PRG Press Release - X-Conference - March 2, 2004



March 2, 2004
Press Release

1st Annual Exopolitics Expo - X-Conference
Hilton Washington, DC North/Gaithersburg - April 16-18, 2004
www.x-conference.com

Washington, DC - Paradigm Research Group is pleased to announce
two additions to the X-Conference. Television journalist,
lecturer and former CNN anchor, Cheryll Jones, will co-moderate
the conference with Stephen Bassett. Astronomer Dr. Thomas Van
Flandern will present on Mars exoarcheology and
faster-than- light travel.

The X-Conference is open to the public and is receiving interest
from around the world with registrations coming in from Eastern
and Western Canada, United Kingdom, Belgium, South Africa and
Dubai among others. Further, Congressional offices are sending
official or unofficial representatives, and invitations are
being sent to a number of presidential candidates to attend or
send representation. Standing offers have been extended to all
candidates to speak briefly regarding their position toward
extraterrestrial-related phenomena and the government imposed
truth embargo.

Conference speakers will include Stephen Bassett, Dr. William
Birnes, Grant Cameron (Canada), Philip Corso, Jr., Paul Davids,
Richard Dolan, Ann Druffel, Stanton Friedman (Canada), Timothy
Good (United Kingdom), Dr. Steven Greer, William Hamilton, Terry
Hansen, Paola Harris (Italy), Richard Hoagland, Linda Moulton
Howe, Dr. C. B. Scott Jones, Jim Marrs, Dr. Bruce Maccabee, Nick
Pope (United Kingdom), Peter Robbins, Dr. Michael Salla
(Australia), Dr. Richard Sauder, Dr. Thomas Van Flandern, Dr.
Robert Wood and Ryan Wood. These speakers have between them
over 200 years of research and/or activism and have published
over 60 books.

All X-Conference speakers are available for radio and television
interviews regarding their presentation topics prior to the
event. Contact Paradigm Research Group.

Over 80% of the American people consistently indicate in
national polls the government is lying to them regarding
extraterrestrial related phenomena, and 50% believe
extraterrestrial craft are the reason for worldwide sightings.
Any other major issue with these numbers would incite a
firestorm of media attention and institutional investigation.

The Hilton Washington, DC North is located at 620 Perry Parkway,
Gaithersburg, Maryland. It is a 3 Star, 3 Diamond hotel with
unlimited free parking, metro access, conference facilities for
1500, banquet facilities for 300+ and is equidistant from all
three major airports (Reagan, Dulles,
BWI).
________________________________

Paradigm Research Group was founded in 1996 to support
the work of research/activist organizations addressing the
science and politics of extraterrestrial related phenomena.

Contact: Stephen Bassett, Executive Director
Email: ParadigmRG.nul
Phone: 202-431-2459
_______________________________________________

Paradigm Research Group
E-mail: ParadigmRG.nul
URL: www.paradigmclock.com
Cell: 202-431-2459
4938 Hampden Lane, #161
Bethesda, MD 20814
________________________________________________

1st Annual Exopolitics Expo - The X-Conference
Hilton Washington DC North/Gaithersburg - April 16-18, 2004
www.x-conference.com







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                        Re: Cartnic Effect - LeClair

From: Aaron LeClair <force.nul>
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 00:22:48 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 08:51:03 -0500
Subject: Re: Cartnic Effect - LeClair


>From: Wendy Connors <fadeddiscs.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates <UFOUpdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 10:16:07 -0700
>Subject: Re: Cartnic Effect

>>From: Barry Taylor <stingray.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 11:13:24 +1100
>>Subject: Cartnic Effect

>>Proposal for new terminology to be used for descriptive
>>purposes when describing "the flight characteristics of the
>>flight and direction change of groups of UFOs".

>>While observing numerous UFO activity during the 1990's, there
>>was one important observation that still intrigues me. This is
>>the observation of groups of UFO (usually surrounded with a
>>white haze) that during their flight appeared to be moving as if
>>with the "same mind".

><snip>

>>I am at this point in time, unaware of a specific terminology
>>that accurately describes the effect observed of birds and fish
>>moving as if with the "same mind". This same effect is
>>associated with the flight of groups of UFO's.

>>I propose that this effect of "group awareness of the same
>>mind" be called the "CARTNIC EFFECT".

>>Preservation and reduced energy requirements of the individual
>>when flying in group formation is another possibility.
>>Scientists state that migrating birds when flying in "V"
>>formation conserve 71% of their energy during their migration
>>flight. This could well also apply to the UFO. An "exchange" of
>>energy in UFO groups is another theory I am working on, and may
>>post that later.

>I would be real careful proposing new terminology. Before long,
>others will be doing it and before you can whack a wallabee,
>your ilk is defining a new science. I agree with your
>terminology. It is clear and concise, thus enhancing the mental
>image to the proposed term.

>Now, if if you could get people to accept CryptoAeronautics
>(Manufactured Aerial Objects of Unknown Origin), to replace UFO,
>you might have a shot at forcing the evolution of Ufology into a
>true science. Which Ufology was always meant to become, even
>though it kept getting side-tracked, into a parody of what it
>actually encompasses.

>So, be very careful to whom you give these ridiculous
>ideas... don't want to rock the status quo, or commit the sin
>of creating actual teaching terminologies!

>But, then again, why not?


I wish UFO meant, undetermined object. I have had several
sightings of "objects" that I could not determine what they
were. I had several different explainations for it, just didn't
know for sure which one was correct.

Flying saucer/alien craft is one possibilty.

I recall hearing Don Berliner say somthhing like:

'Since when is identifying somthing as unidentified, an
identification? Science is suppose to give us identifications
etc.'

I think ufo came to be a term because the airforce did not want
to identify the flying objects with the only conceivable
identification left. Alien craft. They were being conservative,
not calling alot of the "unknowns" flying saucer for example.







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                         PRG Update - March 4, 2004

From: Stephen Bassett <Disclosure2003.nul>
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 02:24:35 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 08:55:55 -0500
Subject: PRG Update - March 4, 2004



PRG
Paradigm Research Group
PRG Update - March 4, 2004



FYI Re: Bloomberg News Article

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/business/2365195

http://www.busrep.co.za/index.php?fSectionId=552&fArticleId=331918
[extended version]

Jan. 21, 2004
Extraterrestrial edge helps the balance sheet
By A. Craig Copetas

Craig Copetas interviewed Stephen Bassett for about 15 minutes
for this story. Craig was provided many quotes with political
grounding regarding the significance and context for the World
Economic Forum ET seminar. Some of these quotes only appeared in
a few extended versions of the article. Craig asked good
questions with a serious tone and seemed interested in the
issue. The article does not fully reflect this. It must be
remembered, however, that reporters don't write to please
themselves - they write to please their editors. [Clarification:
The "30 percent confident" quote was not in reference to
"contractual relationships with major corporations." Rather, it
was in reference to ET involvement with government "on the
ground" as opposed to their presence about the planet (100
percent confident).]


Popular Mechanics Article

If you talk with any magazine publisher, one thing you might
learn is that magazine covers are taken very seriously by
publishers. Articles can sometimes go poorly. Internal artwork
may be so-so. But covers are another matter. Most importantly
they are critical to rack sales. A bad cover can significantly
reduce sales for a single issue. Secondly, the cover, unlike the
inside material, is the public image of the magazine. A bad
cover hangs around for a long time.

So it is worth noting that once again the very mainstream,
established Popular Mechanic Magazine has used a UFO theme for
its cover artwork and lead story. The Feb, 2004 issue, Vol. 181,
No. 2, shows a large disc in support of the article, "When UFOs
Arrive: What Will You Do?" PM has done this before. The article
itself is a bit of a tease and somewhat enigmatic. No matter.
The target audience is not the rural, uneducated bumpkins that
the skeptics and disinformationists claim to be the progenitors
of silly and bogus ET mythology. It is the college educated,
high tech male middle class. The process of indoctrination
continues.


X-Conference

After five months of development, the X-Conference website is
nearly complete. The Lecture/Workshop schedule has been plotted,
but is subject to change. All programs, save for three, have
been posted. Over 100 websites have generously added conference
banner links. Interview requests are coming in for speakers. For
those living on the East Coast within driving distance, a quick
reminder, there is unlimited free parking and a full day of
lectures is just $38 advance purchase.

More info at: www.x-conference.com


Other Conferences

In addition to the X-Conference there are now 20 others listed
in the conference section for 2004 at the PRG website at:
www.paradigmclock.com/conferences.html. More will be added each
month. Recently added: UFO/ET Congress of 2004 in Bordentown,
March 27- 28. See:

http://www.drufo.com

Immediately upcoming are the Aztec UFO Conference, March 19-21,
Aztec, NM

http://www.aztecufo.com/home1.htm

and the 15th Annual Ozark UFO Conference, AR April 9-11, Eureka
Springs, AR

http://www.ozarkufo.com

These conferences need the support of every citizen who believes
the truth regarding an extraterrestrial presence must no longer
be kept form the American people. They are more than just
lectures and PowerPoint presentations - they are celebrations of
the 1st Amendment in the shadow of the "Secret Empire." These
conferences are the leading edge of a paradigmatic tsunami. Grab
a surfboard because "surf's up!"


Paradigm Clock

The Paradigm Clock is about to be reset. Check the Paradigm
Research Group website after March 7 to find out which way the
minute hand is going to be moved and why.

http://www.paradigmclock.com


UFO Magazine (US)

Beginning with the next issue, Stephen Bassett will begin a new
regular column titled, "Exopolitics." An effort is underway to
syndicate this column to a limited group of mainstream
publications. Should that happen, it will be the first
syndicated opinion column focused on issues surrounding
extraterrestrial-related phenomena (it is possible Gabriel Green
had the first such syndicated column in the 1970's, but this has
not been confirmed).

http://www.ufomag.com

There are a number of magazines devoted to alternative science
and news, but it is safe to say the leading U.S. mass market
publication centered on extraterrestrial-related phenomena is
UFO Magazine. All of these publications need the support of
Americans who know they can no longer rely on the nightly TV
news and their daily newspaper to learn about the world.
Mainstream advertisers are generally still caught in the
government's propaganda trap. Consequently, the ability of the
alternative press to publish is solely dependent upon
subscribers. And, of course, this is true for UFO Magazine. When
you subscribe you keep the faith and spread the word. Without
your support the propagandists win. This FYI does not have an
economic motive. (Bassett is not paid for his column.) Sure,
Time Magazine or U.S. News and World Report are a bit less
expensive, but the ideas in UFO Magazine and others in the genre
are going to change your world - soon. Every subscriber to an
alternative press is an activist in the truth process.



________________________________________________________

Paradigm Research Group
E-mail: ParadigmRG.nul
URL: www.paradigmclock.com
Cell: 202-431-2459
4938 Hampden Lane, #161
Bethesda, MD 20814
_________________________________________________________

1st Annual Exopolitics Expo - The X-Conference
Hilton Washington DC North/Gaithersburg - April 16-18, 2004
www.x-conference.com







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             Re: Montell Williams Show With Sylvia Brown - Myers

From: Royce J. Myers III <ufowatchdog.nul>
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 01:23:49 -0800
Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 08:57:14 -0500
Subject: Re: Montell Williams Show With Sylvia Brown - Myers


>From: Terry Groff <terry.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 15:39:20 -0600
>Subject: Montell Williams Show With Sylvia Brown

>I'm watching Montell right now with his regular Wednesday guest,
>Silvia Brown.
>
>One of the audience members had been a guest on his show before,
>telling of her abduction experience. This person believes she
>and a friend had been abducted by aliens on their way to a
>relative's house. They claim to have observed a reddish-orange
>orb descending and "crashing" near them. They then observed
>several "saucer" shaped objects emerge from the "crash" site.
>This, she said, had occurred at about 12:15 am. The next thing
>they remember is that it was now 6 am and they don't know what
>had happened to them during the almost 6 hours of missing time.

>This person asked Ms. Brown if she believed it was an alien
>abduction and without hesitation she said "Absolutely". Prior to
>this both ladies had undergone regression hypnosis and the
>Doctor who performed the process recorded both sessions.

>Having "senior" moments like I do I failed to get any names and
>locations so I'm going to send for a transcript of the program.

>The audience member also asked Ms. Brown if she thought there
>was a message to be taken away from this experience and Sylvia
>said "Sure. It's to wake up and realize we are being observed".


Hi Terry,

Maybe Sylvia can provide all the answers you need. Really, for a
mere $700 for a phone reading from her (no kidding, that is what
she charges), why waste your time investigating anything else?
;-)

Regards,

Royce J. Myers III
UFOWATCHDOG.COM
"Don't Trip On Your Open Mind"









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   Mar > Mar 4

                   UFO History: Depressing But Instructive

From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 11:14:03 +0000
Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 08:58:40 -0500
Subject: UFO History: Depressing But Instructive


Newly added to my web site is a (prophetic) statement presented
to the University of Colorado UFO Project scientists and staff
as they embarked on what was touted to be an independent
scientific study of UFOs. This occurred in November 1966,
probably before many of you on this List were born, or out of
swaddling clothes. (It even seems like a past-life experience to
me!)

On the UFO Page of my web site you will also find other articles
and essays by me on issues of science and UFOs and ideas of how
to break the deadlock and make some progress. Study the past and
learn from history. See:

www.hallrichard.com


Dick Hall










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                       1966-67 UFO Sighting Wave Study

From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 11:24:54 +0000
Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 09:00:50 -0500
Subject: 1966-67 UFO Sighting Wave Study


My detailed chronology and analysis of the 1966-67 UFO sighting
wave is in the final stages of preparation, and tentatively
scheduled for publication in April or May. It will be about 125
pages and includes color graphics.

Those of you who are too young to remember much about thiis
important era of UFO history will find some of the facts and
statistics to be mind-blowing. That wave comprised a microcosm
of the entire UFO question and is well worth mining for
knowledge and insights.

The old saying, "If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and
quacks like a duck, then it's a duck" applies to the 1966-67
"craft-like" objects.

Watch for "Alien Invasion or Human Fantasy?" from the Fund for
UFO Research, and listen to the ducks quack.


Dick Hall









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   Mar > Mar 4

                            Martian 'Ski Slope'?

From: Colin Stevenson <colsweb.nul>
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 12:08:32 -0000
Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 09:02:47 -0500
Subject: Martian 'Ski Slope'?


Could this be proof of Martian's outdoor sport activities?

Can not see any sign of any boulder's at the end of the trails!

http://www.msss.com/mars_images/moc/2004/02/27/2004.02.27.R1102300.gif

http://jpl.convio.net/site/R?i=WIgc3J3ciCFO-3BCLCXxIg

Mars Global Surveyor
Mars Orbiter Camera
MGS MOC Release No. MOC2-649, 27 February 2004


Colin Stevenson
http://www.colsweb.com








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                  Bookies Stop Taking Bets on Life on Mars

From: Steve Wilson Snr. <Ndunlks.nul>
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 08:33:22 EST
Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 09:05:12 -0500
Subject: Bookies Stop Taking Bets on Life on Mars


Source: Yahoo News

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=624&ncid=757&e=10&u=/ap/20040303
/ap_on_sc/britain_mars_bets

03-03-04

Bookies Stop Taking Bets on Life on Mars

.c The Associated Press

LONDON (AP) - The information coming in from the Mars rovers is
exciting for NASA, but it's ending some of the action for
bookies in Britain.

The bookmaking firm Ladbrokes announced it's stopped taking bets
on the question of whether there was ever life on Mars.

NASA scientists said yesterday that the rover Opportunity found
strong evidence to suggest at least part of the Red Planet once
had a wet enough environment to sustain life.

A Ladbrokes spokesman says the latest odds in favor of past life
on Mars were 16-1. Back in the '70s, when the first bets were
placed, the odds were 1,000-1.

He says he expects that scientists will find evidence of past
life on Mars within the coming years.










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   Mar > Mar 4

                           New Phoenix LIghts Book

From: Josh Crockett <thirdeyeching.nul>
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 08:50:20 EST
Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 09:06:44 -0500
Subject: New Phoenix LIghts Book


The Inside Story of the Mysterious Lights over Phoenix

On the evening of March 13, 1997, Lynne Kitei, M.D., looked
out her bedroom window over Phoenix and saw something that would
change her life.

Strange lights appeared in the sky over the nighttime city.
Amber orbs in formation. It was a massive triangular array of
lights moving silently but in unison as though they were
connected. Many people throughout Phoenix and across the state
of Arizona saw them.

Optical illusion? Unlikely. Military aircraft? That's what the
U.S. government wanted her to think. UFOs? That's what her
evidence and subsequent years of careful research, interviews,
and documentation, including photographic proof, strongly
suggest. The result is The Phoenix Lights, a sober, well-
researched account, both personal and scientific, of the story
behind the lights, of the theories and cover-ups, the facts and
denials that surrounded this event.

Kitei, a well-respected Phoenix physician, had always thought of
herself as grounded and practical, not one to be taken up with
new age interests. But her firsthand experience and the
undeniable reality of the photographs she took changed all that.
She found herself a key insider in a complex mystery that has
baffled humanity for centuries. What are UFOs? Who are the
beings presumed to fly them? What do they want? How does it
change your life to see one?

The answers to these questions and more are found in The Phoenix
Lights. Over the years since the sightings, she's become an
ardent, tireless researcher into the truth of the Phoenix Lights
and an advocate for public disclosure by the government about
the subject of unexplained phenomena.

More information can be found at the publishers website:

http://www.hamptonroadspub.com/bookstore/product_ info.php?authors_id=225&produc
ts_id=344








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               Re: NASA-JPL May Have Cooked Their Own Goose! -

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 08:56:12 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 09:08:10 -0500
Subject: Re: NASA-JPL May Have Cooked Their Own Goose! -


>From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 16:13:57 -0600
>Subject: Re: NASA-JPL May Have Cooked Their Own Goose!

>>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 15:50:55 -0500
>>Subject: NASA-JPL May Have Cooked Their Own Goose!

>>Those people are probably blind and petrified with
>>paranoia of what colleagues on the outside might say
>>if they should be even slightly wrong. Such was not
>>the way of the great scientific pioneers, and never
>>will be.

>>Is that a goose I smell cooking, somewhere? Hmmm...
>>could that be blowing in from Pasadena?

>Hey, here's something interesting... some Mars blueberries have
>"stems."

>http://tinyurl.com/2vvnb

Thanks for the 'heads-up", Tim. They look as though they are
analogs of the Early Cretaceous 'bedroom with entrance-exit
tunnel' invertebrate trace fossils (ichnites) that I find
preserved due to bacteria-aided concretion lining having formed
upon their walls (See my explanation of yesterday.) that I find
here in Maryland. Some of the concretion-preserved tunnels and
'bedrooms' (and/or nests?) are still hollow, some are in-filled,
having become natural casts within concretional 'molds'.

I think the NASA-JPL 'goose' (alleging that no signs of past or
present life have been found on Mars) is now possibly cooked. :)
They should have had an expert in paleoichnology (researcher of
ancient traces) on staff and this slip-up would not have
happened. Serves those old-fashioned geologists right. :) Even a
good biologist might have recognized these as signs of ancient
life! It is shameful to what degree over-specialization has
seemingly blinded NASA-JPL!


Ray Stanford

"You know my method. It is founded upon the observance of
trifles." -- Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery









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   Mar > Mar 4

               Re: Tracing The Flow Of The Gulf Breeze Money -

From: Steven Kaeser <steve.nul>
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 08:59:59 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 09:11:17 -0500
Subject: Re: Tracing The Flow Of The Gulf Breeze Money -


>From: Kenny Young <ufo.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 22:42:56 -0500
>Subject: Re: Tracing The Flow Of The Gulf Breeze Money

>>From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 21:59:29 -0400
>>Subject: Re: Tracing The Flow Of The Gulf Breeze Money

>>I will go with Bruce any time based on his
>>far more careful, detailed, objective explanations for any
>>conclusion he has reached in the past.

>Ed Walters too? Don't forget, he's part of the crew.

>But you must be right, of course. How silly of us to examine
>this case and how unnecessary for the case data to be
>challenged, and what a crime to examine the motivations of its
>promoters and what a distraction to look for a money trail After
>all, the Gulf Breeze investigation stands as an example of naked
>science at its best, the essence of impartial, objective and
>unadulterated inquiry.

>NOT!


I don't think anyone has said that the case data shouldn't be
challanged if necessary. But I've not seen anything new posted
in the story, and wonder why there's a need to continue the
arguement.

Do you have any illusion that anyone's mind is going to be
changed at this point?

After so many years, the same can be said about the Roswell
controversy as well as many other cases through the years.

If the Gulf Breeze case was actively being discussed because of
new evidence, then there's reason to beat on this dead horse a
bit more, but otherwise I'd move on the more productive pursuits
(hopefully within ufology).

I do agree with your earlier comment that this field is very
frustrating over time and I've watched many good people come and
go as a result. The field appears to have no standards and often
resembles religion more than science. It's sad.


Steve








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              Re: UFOs 'The Little Red Hen' & Disney - Lehmberg

From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg.nul>
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 08:02:55 -0600
Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 09:13:29 -0500
Subject: Re: UFOs 'The Little Red Hen' & Disney - Lehmberg


>From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 21:20:38 EST
>Subject: UFOs 'The Little Red Hen' & Disney

>Wow, have I had a day to remember!

<snip>

>Same with Ufology. Something is going on and in the long run
>when the truth comes out the big question will be,

>"What did you do about it?"


This is one of the major contributors involved in keeping me
interested despite the documented travails, Mr. Boone - this
rather selfish wish that, when asked the 'big' question by my
grandchildren, I won't have to report to them that (...quoting
General George S. Patton...), I'd "...shoveled s*** in
Louisiana..."


Lehmberg.nul
www.AlienView.net

Photo Album: http://www.alienview.net/AVAlbum.htm
(send picture as attachment to Lehmberg.nul)
Splash page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AlienViewGroup/
Radio Show & Splash Page: http://www.alienview.net/alienviews.htm
Radio Show Archives: Out of Service at this time...
http://www.alienview.net/N2Ltune.html







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                         Re: The Illuminati - Boone

From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul?>
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 09:16:10 EST
Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 09:33:51 -0500
Subject: Re: The Illuminati - Boone


>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 17:28:04 -0500
>Subject: Re: The Illuminati

>>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 13:55:10 -0800
>>Subject: Re: The Illuminati

>>>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 21:38:06 -0500
>>>Subject: Re: The Illuminati

><snip>

>>>As for that (3), of course if they know it is, for example, an
>>>extraterrestrial vehicle, it is not unidentified, by definition,
>>>is it? Such are the semantic games officialdom plays.

>><snip>

>>I'll take it a step further - the afore mentioned points in
>>conclusion of Project Blue Book are "out in out lies!"

><snip>

>>4). In regards to their third point, and not even getting to
>>"close encounters," etc., there is no known "man-made
>>technology" that could duplicate the maneuvers of UFOs then and
>>or now, therefore; "Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter
>>necessitatem."

>I cannot read the Latin, but the rest is well-said and
>well- taken, Frank.


Eureka! You've got it! The word for today is 'Semantics'!

That's the motherlode! I was wondering when someone would bring
it up! Now we can get this show on the road.

This is what I mean. Years ago when I egged a reporter pal of
mine to dig into the UFO issue via the FOIA he did and then one
day slowly turned to me and said:

"This stonewalling is just semantics bs! If you ask for
information about UFOs or flying saucers you'll get the run
around. We've got to find out what terms they use for this."

Then, a pal in the Air Force at the time told me when I asked
him about UFOs he giggled and said,

"Oh the Air Force doesn't deal with UFOs. Because we're the Air
Force, the best defensive and offensive force in the world. Far
as we're concerned we own the skies and there ain't nothin' in
the air we don't know about and better not be." he finished,
obviously mocking his superiors' response to UFO inquiries. In
other words to even suggest that the skies would have anything
unidentified was considered an 'insult' because the top brass
and politicians didn't want to hear of anything 'unidentified'
because we spend too much money to have anything in our skies
'unidentified'. Also, the enemy is very scared when they think
you know everything.

See what's going on? Military protect data by not classifying it
under the name the public or the enemy would recognize. That's
SOP. So it takes time and patience to get the goods. This takes
good old fashioned detective work. It made sense then and does
now.

That's why I don't go after 'UFO' data from the government. It's
a run-around wild goose chase. All you'll get is a smattering of
information.

Now there _are_ keywords you can dig for. We got this trick from
another reporter. It was funny to watch him go into action on
this one. Just like a search engine when he sent in his FOIA
forms with these words he immediately set off alarms. That's
when he knew he was on to something.

That's how data that is sensitive is categorized. So if one were
looking for the real deal on let's say 'WMDs' it wouldn't be
listed as 'WMDs' it would have a nickname like ' Aunt Martha's
Buntcake'. Why? Because there's no way anyone would associate
the two.

So when you ask the govt. about 'UFOs' or 'Extraterrestrials'
you've gotta understand they don't want you to have the real
information because the enemy might get the information.

That's why you've got to shmooze around and get the pick-up
terms. That means rubbing elbows with the officials in charge or
the ground crews. Luckily these 'buzz words' fly off now and
then and a sharp investigator picks em' up.

So keep your ears open. Slang is often the best clue.


Best,

Greg








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               Re: NASA-JPL May Have Cooked Their Own Goose! -

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 09:30:31 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 09:35:51 -0500
Subject: Re: NASA-JPL May Have Cooked Their Own Goose! -


>From: Joe McGonagle <joe.mcgonagle.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 22:43:13 -0000
>Subject: Re: NASA-JPL May Have Cooked Their Own Goose!

>>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdaates.nul>
>>Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 15:50:55 -0500
>>Subject: NASA-JPL May Have Cooked Their Own Goose!

><snip>

>>When will the seemingly old-fashioned geologists at NASA-JPL
>>wake up to recent advances in petrogenesis, etc., and realize
>>that they have likely been showing us concretionary evidence of
>>(at least) a former abundance of some kind of bacterial life in
>>a (at least) once water-abundant environment of Mars?

>>When? Well, I'm not holding my breath. Those people are
>>probably blind and petrified with paranoia of what colleagues on
>>the outside might say if they should be even slightly wrong.
>>Such was not the way of the great scientific pioneers, and
>>never will be.

>>Is that a goose I smell cooking, somewhere? Hmmm... could that
>>be blowing in from Pasadena?

>I think it may be a bit early to get the knife and fork out,
>Ray!

>While I don't doubt your description of the concretion process
>in an Earth environment, have you considered the effect of the
>differences between the Earth environment and that on Mars?

Yes, I have considered that to the extent that it is practical
to do so. Of course, one does not, at this point, know precisely
what the differences are, but we are not dealing with an
environment that is really all that different from what one
finds right here on earth.

The rocks have similar minerals, of which I am well aware due to
my study of analysis done with the equipment used on rocks right
there on Mars, and also because of my study of the mineralogical
and isotopic analyses of numerous Martian meteorites, slices of
eight of which I have right here in my collection. Water was
(and probably still is) present. Heat is also present due to
isotopic decay within the planet and, of course, Mars has the
sun. That's about all it takes to sustain bacterial life.

It would be highly surprising if concretions on Mars are not
formed in ways similar to terrestrial ones. There might be other
types of concretions formed by other processes on Mars, but I'm
hypothesizing based on what we already know.

Please see my earlier posting today in response to seeing the
stemmed 'blueberries' to which Tim Shell linked us at:

http://tinyurl.com/2vvnb


Best Wishes,

Ray Stanford

"You know my method. It is founded upon the observance of
trifles." -- Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery








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               Re: UFOs 'The Little Red Hen' & Disney - Boone

From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 09:34:49 EST
Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 11:50:52 -0500
Subject: Re: UFOs 'The Little Red Hen' & Disney - Boone


>From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 08:02:55 -0600
>Subject: Re: UFOs 'The Little Red Hen' &Disney

>>From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 21:20:38 EST
>>Subject: UFOs 'The Little Red Hen' &Disney

>>Wow, have I had a day to remember!

><snip>

>>Same with Ufology. Something is going on and in the long run
>>when the truth comes out the big question will be,

>>"What did you do about it?"

>This is one of the major contributors involved in keeping me
>interested despite the documented travails, Mr. Boone - this
>rather selfish wish that, when asked the 'big' question by my
>grandchildren, I won't have to report to them that (...quoting
>General George S. Patton...), I'd "...shoveled s*** in
>Louisiana..."

Thanks Al Lehmberg,

I had to write that. I had to tell what happened. I sat here for
the past 6 years watching American jobs being lost and people
who are some of the best artists this country has produced
getting beat down for corporate interests. Then I saw the old
man Roy Disney get up and fight for his rights and his family
legacy. I couldn't stand by the wayside. I saw him stand up for
what's right. And I'm  a heck-raiser from day one. I'm always
getting into a jam for speaking up or fighting what everyone
else is scared to fight. But that's cause I grew up around
fighters. That's what got me interested in Ufology because I saw
men and women fighting for the people. I saw UFOlogists, skeptic
and believers taking a stand. Then when I got to meet the
groundtroops, the victims, the researchers I realized they're
just regular folks much like my neighbors and family.

That's when I realized this is no joke. Hucksters get busted,
operatives get exposed, ethics get put in and gradually like a
good science experiment the truth is coming out.

You mark my words. One day what Ufologists have done will be
recognized by everyone in the world. And when that happens you
watch how many naysayers and scam artists and couch potatoes try
to jump on the bandwagon. I wanna be there when the big " I told
you so's " are being handed out by the UFOlogists.


Best,

Greg









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                      Re: Martian 'Ski Slope'? - Shell

From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 08:42:52 -0600
Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 11:52:40 -0500
Subject: Re: Martian 'Ski Slope'? - Shell


>From: Colin Stevenson <colsweb.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 12:08:32 -0000
>Subject: Martian 'Ski Slope'?

>Could this be proof of Martian's outdoor sport activities?
>Can not see any sign of any boulders at the end of the trails!

>http://www.msss.com/mars_images/moc/2004/02/27/2004.02.27.R1102300.gif

>http://jpl.convio.net/site/R?i=WIgc3J3ciCFO-3BCLCXxIg

Yeah. Where did the boulders go? Broke up maybe.

I don't know how good skiing on Mars would be. Wouldn't the
lower gravity tend to make you go re-e-e-eally slo-o-o-ow? Good
for beginners, I suppose.








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               Re: NASA-JPL May Have Cooked Their Own Goose! -

From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 08:53:36 -0600
Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 11:54:33 -0500
Subject: Re: NASA-JPL May Have Cooked Their Own Goose! -


>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 08:56:12 -0500
>Subject: Re: NASA-JPL May Have Cooked Their Own Goose!

>>From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 16:13:57 -0600
>>Subject: Re: NASA-JPL May Have Cooked Their Own Goose!

<snip>

>>Hey, here's something interesting... some Mars blueberries have
>>"stems."

>>http://tinyurl.com/2vvnb

>Thanks for the 'heads-up", Tim. They look as though they are
>analogs of the Early Cretaceous 'bedroom with entrance-exit
>tunnel' invertebrate trace fossils (ichnites) that I find
>preserved due to bacteria-aided concretion lining having formed
>upon their walls (See my explanation of yesterday.) that I find
>here in Maryland. Some of the concretion-preserved tunnels and
>'bedrooms' (and/or nests?) are still hollow, some are in-filled,
>having become natural casts within concretional 'molds'.

Interesting. Actually, I was sort of keeping my eye out for
these stems, because I thought I might have seen one in an
earlier photo. This one:

http://tinyurl.com/2wgwg

The round circles are the blueberries sliced in half. The one in
the top right of the picture seems to have an "appendage" of
some sort, also sliced open. I'm no expert, so as far as I know
there could be some natural geologic process that could form
that without the need for bugs. But it is curious.








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                         Re: The Illuminati - Warren

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 07:56:04 -0800
Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 11:56:19 -0500
Subject: Re: The Illuminati - Warren


>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 20:08:47 -0500
>Subject: Re: The Illuminati

>>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 14:19:34 -0800
>>Subject: Re: The Illuminati

>>>From: Steven Kaeser <steve.nul>
>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 10:54:14 -0500
>>>Subject: Re: The Illuminati

>>>Are we defining everyone who isn't already a part of the UFO
>>>community a "skeptibunker"? The field has been doing this on its
>>>own for 50 years, but I'm not sure that much has been
>>>accomplished. Somehow we have to reach out to mainstream
>>>science, and we need to do it differently than it's been done in
>>>the past.

><snip>

>>Until the powers-that-be allow it, or an event takes place on a
>>"grandiose scale," Ufology will only be "whispered" within
>>"mainstream science".

>Steve is right.

>'Ufology' is responsible for its failures, and not 'the powers
>that be'. It is an 'easy out' to plead for 'disclosure', seeking
>a political solution, but science is not done that way. Those
>who blame their failures on others seldom succeed in anything
>really important.


Ray, Steve,

Au contraire mon ami! There is a phenomenon unto itself Ray,
that occurred from years of "debunking UFO sightings," an "after
effect" or "side-effect" if you will, that IMHO has been
responsible, for the most part, for the "current mindset" of
mainstream science (as well as public opinion) in regards to
Ufology. This phenomenon has crossed generations and in a sense
is a form of "mind control." Now I don't mean that in a
"diabolical sense," however; the end result is the same--"cause
and effect!"

Think about it, had our government embraced the UFO phenomenon
"publicly" instead of debunking the subject and ridiculing
witnesses and evidence, (for decades) we would have a much
different scenario today. Quite frankly, we might even have
members of the list who are from places much farther then
Brazil.


Cheers,

Frank










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                         Re: The Illuminati - Warren

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 07:57:05 -0800
Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 11:58:21 -0500
Subject: Re: The Illuminati - Warren


>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 20:08:47 -0500
>Subject: Re: The Illuminati

>>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 14:19:34 -0800
>>Subject: Re: The Illuminati

>>>From: Steven Kaeser <steve.nul>
>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 10:54:14 -0500
>>>Subject: Re: The Illuminati

>>>Are we defining everyone who isn't already a part of the UFO
>>>community a "skeptibunker"? The field has been doing this on its
>>>own for 50 years, but I'm not sure that much has been
>>>accomplished. Somehow we have to reach out to mainstream
>>>science, and we need to do it differently than it's been done in
>>>the past.

><snip>

>>Until the powers-that-be allow it, or an event takes place on a
>>"grandiose scale," Ufology will only be "whispered" within
>>"mainstream science".

>Steve is right.

>'Ufology' is responsible for its failures, and not 'the powers
>that be'. It is an 'easy out' to plead for 'disclosure', seeking
>a political solution, but science is not done that way. Those
>who blame their failures on others seldom succeed in anything
>really important.


Ray, Steve,

Au contraire mes ami! There is a phenomenon unto itself Ray,
that occurred from years of "debunking UFO sightings," an "after
effect" or "side-effect" if you will, that IMHO has been
responsible, for the most part, for the "current mindset" of
mainstream science (as well as public opinion) in regards to
Ufology. This phenomenon has crossed generations and in a sense
is a form of "mind control." Now I don't mean that in a
"diabolical sense," however; the end result is the same--"cause
and effect!"

Think about it, had our government embraced the UFO phenomenon
"publicly" instead of debunking the subject and ridiculing
witnesses and evidence, (for decades) we would have a much
different scenario today. Quite frankly, we might even have
members of the list who are from places much farther then
Brazil.


Cheers,

Frank









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                         Re: The Illuminati - Warren

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 08:06:57 -0800
Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 16:07:02 -0500
Subject: Re: The Illuminati - Warren


>From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul?>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 09:16:10 EST
>Subject: Re: The Illuminati

>>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 17:28:04 -0500
>>Subject: Re: The Illuminati

<snip>

>So when you ask the govt. about 'UFOs' or 'Extraterrestrials'
>you've gotta understand they don't want you to have the real
>information because the enemy might get the information.

>That's why you've got to shmooze around and get the pick-up
>terms. That means rubbing elbows with the officials in charge or
>the ground crews. Luckily these 'buzz words' fly off now and
>then and a sharp investigator picks em' up.

>So keep your ears open. Slang is often the best clue.


Greg, Ray,

I.e., "classification, code word classification, and
compartmentalization."


Cheers,

Frank










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                         Re: The Illuminati - Miller

From: Stuart Miller <Stuart.Miller4.nul>
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 15:37:56 -0000
Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 16:08:34 -0500
Subject: Re: The Illuminati - Miller


>From: Robert Gates <RGates8254.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 23:49:40 EST
>Subject: Re: The Illuminati

<snip>

>>>>From: Robert Gates <RGates8254.nul>
>>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>>Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 02:12:13 EST
>>>>Subject: Re: The Illuminati

><snip>

>>>>This has been my point with UFOs over the years. Instead of
>>>>wasting time trying to get skeptibunkers to give the evidence a
>>>>fair shake; instead of wasting time to get some university on
>>>>the band wagon to do some scientific study, we within the UFO
>>>>field need to just go out and do it ourselves and not worry
>>>>about whether so called "main stream science" will get on board.

>Why do we need to reach out to main stream science? So called
>main stream science is essentially a fractured crystal of
>different agendas, theories, beliefs and interpretations of the
>evidence.


Gentlemen,

I couldn't agree more with these two statements. If those on
this List who propogate the neccessity of the involvement of
mainstream Science within Ufology were honest, they would
acknowledge that their real motive is to be taken seriously by a
profession they look up to and by colleagues they admire.

But there comes a time when banging your head against a brick
wall stops being fun anymore. It is very much a case of science
catching up with Ufology, not the other way round.

Until it does, which could still be a while yet as NASA
obviously shows no interest whatsoever in searching for
alternative life forms, then leave the whole messy, ignoble,
corrupt mess to it's own strutting arrogance.

And kick it hard in the scrotal area when it eventually comes
knocking on the door for help.


Stuart Miller








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                         Re: The Illuminati - Warren

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 08:12:28 -0800
Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 16:10:36 -0500
Subject: Re: The Illuminati - Warren


>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 17:28:04 -0500
>Subject: Re: The Illuminati

>>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 13:55:10 -0800
>>Subject: Re: The Illuminati

<snip>

>>4). In regards to their third point, and not even getting to
>>"close encounters," etc., there is no known "man-made
>>technology" that could duplicate the maneuvers of UFOs then and
>>or now, therefore; "Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter
>>necessitatem."

>I cannot read the Latin, but the rest is well-said and
>well- taken, Frank.

>Excellent points, all.

Ray,

Occam's Razor - the simplest explanation is the one that is most
likely to be correct, or KISS (keep it simple, stupid!)

Frank










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                       Re: Martian Cocktail - Balaskas

From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul>
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 10:58:29 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 16:11:19 -0500
Subject: Re: Martian Cocktail - Balaskas


>Source: Florida Today

>http://www.floridatoday.com/news/space/stories/2004a/030304editorial.htm

>Mar 2, 2004

>Martian Cocktail

>Discovery that Mars was once wet enough for life may get us
>closer to ancient cousins

>So, we may not be alone after all.

>It's a possibility that may have increased following NASA's
>exciting announcement Tuesday that its Mars rover Opportunity
>has discovered evidence that the Red Planet was once wet enough
>to harbor life.

<snip>

Hi Everyone!

There is still much excited discussion here, including those
researchers working on the next Mars lander mission, as to what
those blueberries on Mars are - as well as all the other fossil
looking features and fibers found in the Martian rocks. If these
were Earth rocks, geologists would be very certain these
features had a biological explanation. Of course, these are not
Earth rocks...

I was watching David Letterman on TV last night while eating a
late dinner. He was all excited about the salty water discovered
on Mars because now it will be possible for future astronauts
living on the Red Planet to make Margaritas! So if the Martian
Cocktail may not be conducive to creating "life" from inanimate
organic matter, it will give "spirit" to life forms visiting
there.  ;o)


Nick Balaskas








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              Re: Bigfoot Makes Appearance In Levittown - Lowry

From: Louise A. Lowry <ShnSassy1.nul>
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 11:36:37 -0600
Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 16:13:55 -0500
Subject: Re: Bigfoot Makes Appearance In Levittown - Lowry


>From: Aaron LeClair <force.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 18:59:58 -0500
>Subject: Re: Bigfoot Makes Appearance In Levittown

<snip>

>Jeff Rense just did a show about bigfoot. Some guy is claiming
>to be involved in the Patterson film. Says he dressed up in a
>gorilla suit etc. You can listen to the show via the audio
>archives, it's already up on the site. Personally, I currently
>have problems with the claims, but I need to wait until more
>info. comes out.

>http://www.rense.com

I have done some investigating on this sighting. I too have come
to the conclusion that these tracks are indeed by boots, the
stride of the prints would only set the person or creature to be
around 6 feet tall and since there has been damage to a few of
these imprints I would also say the person is around the 200 to
225 pounds.

There is other information coming out and right now I'm trying
to contact a person that had a sighting in October that had
called into the newsman about this, seems there is more here
than meets the eye..also doing some checking on this is Eric
Altman, head of the Penna. Bigfoot Society, and he also agrees
that these prints are _fake_.

Love & Light

Louise

--
World Of The Strange http://www.worldofthestrange.com
Para-Discussion List: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Para-Discuss/








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                         Re: The Illuminati - Kaeser

From: Steven Kaeser <steve.nul>
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 13:57:54 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 16:16:44 -0500
Subject: Re: The Illuminati - Kaeser


>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 07:57:05 -0800
>Subject: Re: The Illuminati

<snip>

>>'Ufology' is responsible for its failures, and not 'the powers
>>that be'. It is an 'easy out' to plead for 'disclosure', seeking
>>a political solution, but science is not done that way. Those
>>who blame their failures on others seldom succeed in anything
>>really important.


>Au contraire mes ami! There is a phenomenon unto itself Ray,
>that occurred from years of "debunking UFO sightings," an "after
>effect" or "side-effect" if you will, that IMHO has been
>responsible, for the most part, for the "current mindset" of
>mainstream science (as well as public opinion) in regards to
>Ufology. This phenomenon has crossed generations and in a sense
>is a form of "mind control." Now I don't mean that in a
>"diabolical sense," however; the end result is the same--"cause
>and effect!"

>Think about it, had our government embraced the UFO phenomenon
>"publicly" instead of debunking the subject and ridiculing
>witnesses and evidence, (for decades) we would have a much
>different scenario today. Quite frankly, we might even have
>members of the list who are from places much farther then
>Brazil.


Frank,

There are many factors that have brought ufology to where it is
today, and we could debate the strengths and weaknesses of them
forever. Probably the turning point for respectability was the
Colorado Project, which was used by Dr. Condon to gather and
formalize evidence that supported his pre-existing beliefs about
the subject. The debate wasn't all that different prior to the
Condon Report, but this provided the Air Force with the excuse
they needed to shut down Project Blue Book, which wasn't going
anywhere, and also provided an (albeit flawed) scientific
conclusion that there was little of importance to the study with
regard to UFOs. To this day, many scientists view this as the
official scientific study on the subject and believe that
further research isn't justified. In addition, it is very
difficult to secure research funds for a subject that has been
dismissed by the "official" scientific community.

But when you talk of public acceptance and beliefs, there are
many subtle factors involved. One of those is the little
understood effect of memes, which can help to form our beliefs
through symbols that cross language and ethnic barriers. I would
suggest that there are a number of symbols related to ufology
that evoke feelings and beliefs by many, which has given those
symbols a special standing.

I've often been told of the "Good 'ol Days" when the phone at
the NICAP office would ring off the hook when sightings took
place, and reporters would walk in daily to get the latest
reports and see if they could use them. But nothing remains the
same, and ufology will probably resemble something different a
decade from now.


Steve








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                 Re: JPL/NASA's Ho Hum Conference - Anderson

From: Paul Anderson <paulanderson.nul>
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 12:06:49 -0800
Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 16:18:03 -0500
Subject: Re: JPL/NASA's Ho Hum Conference - Anderson


>From: Lan Fleming <lfleming6.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 12:35:19 -0600
>Subject: Re: JPL/NASA's Ho Hum Conference

>Here is the evidence they're "hiding," but they're hiding it in
>full view:

>http://www3.telus.net/paulanderson/mer.html

>They're not actually hiding it, of course. They're just ignoring
>it or dismissing it with lame off-the-cuff explanations when
>someone has the bad manners to point out to them that these
>things are in their rover images. JPL doesn't actually need to
>hide evidence when it's much easier for them to just spin it
>away.


Thanks for the link Lan, appreciate it. Just so the List knows,
I started this side-project if you will (apart from my crop
circle studies/CCCRN), as space exploration, planetary missions
in particular, has been a life-long passion of mine, long before
I ever heard of flattened wheat(!). I've been following these
new MER missions with much interest. I may expand this later but
for now at least a chronology of highlights, linked to my
personal web site, including some of the more interesting
anomalies.

And personally I am excited about the water discovery; yes we
had good evidence before this for liquid water in the past, but
now we have the direct on-the-spot proof, for water in large
amounts and long- lasting, that's the key difference. Whether
that was from hydrothermal sources or a standing salty lake or
sea remains to be seen, but is exciting either way.


Paul








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               Re: NASA-JPL May Have Cooked Their Own Goose! -

From: Paul Anderson <paulanderson.nul>
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 12:07:19 -0800
Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 16:19:21 -0500
Subject: Re: NASA-JPL May Have Cooked Their Own Goose! -


>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 15:50:55 -0500
>Subject: NASA-JPL May Have Cooked Their Own Goose!

>NASA-JPL has diagnosed the 'blueberries' as concretions formed
>within a wet substrate. Aside from a few of the spheres and at
>least one textbook splash-form dumb bell-shaped small object that
>seem to be composed of translucent glass possibly knocked up and
>frozen in flight by cosmic impact, my examination of many images
>of the 'blueberries' taken under diverse light angles suggests
>that they are right as to the origin of at least most of the
>'blueberries'.

<snip>

I think Ray might be right in his assessment. There are so many
of these things; the soil all around the crater rim and bedrock
is covered with them. They might be concretions all right, but
why so many of them, as compared to most earthly examples? The
vast number of them may itself indicate biological involvement,
a fascinating idea. Could so many have just eroded out of
bedrock in the normal sense? Squyres himself has said in earlier
JPL briefings that some spherules come from the bedrock (we can
see that) but that many probably do not. If the rover goes out
onto the flat plain and the plain itself is covered with them,
then what? Some of the pancam images I've looked at so far seem
to hint at that, but they may be clustered just around the
crater(s), we don't know yet. But soon now we will see. They
could still be just "normal" concretions, with no biological
involvement, but I think this hypothesis is an interesting
possibility at this point, that should not be dismissed too
quickly.

There are also similar ideas now regarding zinc spherules on
earth that can be created by colonies of microbes:

http://www.sciencenews.org/20031115/bob9.asp

Also, in this new Astrobiology Magazine article, they mention
how even the sulfate-eating bacteria can produce round spores
when they go dormant, with a photo of one, although those are
probably a lot smaller, not sure (no size indication given). It
includes quotes from Benton C. Clark who was in the NASA press
conference panel and seems rather open-minded to the possibility
of Martian life, at least in this form (see below):

http://www.astrobio.net/news/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=8
58&mode=threadℴ=0&thold=0

or

http://tinyurl.com/ytjvz

As for there being no biologists in the press conference panel,
as I've seen mentioned in various places - not quite accurate. I
found this reference in another forum for Dr. Benton C. Clark
(who presented the spectrometer results). His background is
biophysics and he chairs the External Advisory Committee for the
NASA Center for Research and Training in Exobiology at the
University of California San Diego and Salk Institute:

http://nai.arc.nasa.gov/video_archive/clark.cfm

http://stardust.jpl.nasa.gov/news/bio_bclark.html

There's a lot more to his bio than just Lockheed-Martin which
was mentioned in the official press release (and so the
reporters there probably didn't know this either).








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   Mar > Mar 4

                          Secrecy News -- 03/04/04

From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood.nul>
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 15:07:45 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 16:21:14 -0500
Subject: Secrecy News -- 03/04/04


SECRECY NEWS
from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy
Volume 2004, Issue No. 25
March 4, 2004


**      BYRD BLASTS WHITE HOUSE COMMISSION ON IRAQ INTEL
**      THE VIRTUES OF RED TEAMING
**      INTELLIGENT AGENT SOFTWARE AGAINST TERRORISM
**      CHINA AND BALLISTIC MISSILE DEFENSE


BYRD BLASTS WHITE HOUSE COMMISSION ON IRAQ INTEL

The commission that was established by President Bush on
February 6 to review pre-war intelligence on Iraq is "ill-
equipped to discover just what went wrong," argued Sen. Robert
Byrd in a sharply-worded critique on the Senate floor.

Therefore, he said, "Congress should act quickly to create an
independent Iraq intelligence commission."

"The President has described the panel that he created as being
an independent commission," Sen. Byrd noted.  "Well, nothing
could be further from the truth."

"Who created the panel's charter?  The President.  Who chooses
the panel members?  The President.  To whom does the panel
report?  The President.  Whom shall the panel advise and assist?
 The President.  Who is in charge of determining what classified
reports the panel may see?  The President. Who gets to decide
whether the Congress may see the panel's report?  The
President."

"I was born at night but not last night," said Sen. Byrd.

See his March 3 statement here:

http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/2004_cr/s030304.html

In a bold move that could test the validity of Sen. Byrd's
concerns, Senator John McCain, a commission member, has asked
the White House to give the commission subpoena power, according
to a story in The Hill.

Without such power, Sen. McCain argued, the commission will be
ineffective.  The White House has rebuffed the request.

See "Seeking subpoenas:  McCain and Bush clash on powers, scope
of intel probe" by Alexander Bolton, The Hill, March 4:

http://www.thehill.com/news/030404/mccain.aspx


THE VIRTUES OF RED TEAMING

"Red teams" that challenge the premises, goals and operations of
government programs can serve a catalytic role in transforming
military and intelligence organizations, according to a recent
Defense Science Board (DSB) report.

The DSB identified the attributes of successful red teams and
cited instances in which they had played a constructive role.

The U.S. missile defense program, the DSB noted without irony,
has been the beneficiary of much "free red teaming" from critics
such as MIT professor Ted Postol and the Union of Concerned
Scientists.

"Unfortunately, it is often the case that those organizations in
need of red teaming have a culture inimical to its use," the DSB
report said.

See "The Role and Status of DoD Red Teaming Activities," Defense
Science Board, September 2003:

http://www.fas.org/irp/agency/dod/dsb/redteam.pdf


INTELLIGENT AGENT SOFTWARE AGAINST TERRORISM

Information technology in the form of automated "intelligent
agents" holds the promise of advancing defenses against
terrorism that goes well beyond mere "information sharing,"
according to a briefing prepared by the Institute for Defense
Analyses (IDA).

"Some form of intelligent automation is required to continuously
search ... a large amount of ever-changing data to locate
patterns that will not only help generate the desired picture,
but also provide insight into terrorist intentions."

"Intelligent automation will also provide the capability needed
to predict terrorist acts and prevent their occurrence," the IDA
briefing asserted.

See "Defender's Edge: Utilizing Intelligent Agent Technology To
Anticipate Terrorist Acts" by L. B. Scheiber, Institute for
Defense Analyses, June 2003:

http://www.fas.org/irp/threat/agent.pdf


CHINA AND BALLISTIC MISSILE DEFENSE

A study performed last year for the Defense Intelligence Agency
considers China's potential responses to U.S. deployment of
ballistic missile defenses in light of the historical
development of Chinese policy.

"China's attitudes toward BMD have passed through a series of
distinct phases since the beginning of the nuclear era,"
observed author Brad Roberts of the Institute for Defense
Analyses. "Throughout this era it has also pursued its own
strategic defense capabilities."

See "China and Ballistic Missile Defense: 1955 to 2002 and
Beyond" by Brad Roberts, IDA, September 2003:

http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/china/doctrine/bmd.pdf


_______________________________________________
Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the
Federation of American Scientists.

To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to
 secrecy_news-request.nul
with "subscribe" in the body of the message.

OR email your request to saftergood.nul

Secrecy News is archived at:
 http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html

_______________________
Steven Aftergood
Project on Government Secrecy
Federation of American Scientists
web:www.fas.org/sgp/index.html
email:  saftergood.nul
voice:  (202) 454-4691






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   Mar > Mar 4

                      Castlegar/Nelson British Columbia

From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO <hbccufo.nul>
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 12:22:40 -0800
Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 16:23:03 -0500
Subject: Castlegar/Nelson British Columbia


Howdy List Members

I have a question to ask of some of you who may have come across
what I am about to mention. Also what I am talking about here
does not have a connection to the list of reports below. Let me
just say this, for example: How would one handle bringing out
information if anyone was to receive material from a
Intelligence Agency if the information was on UFOs. Keep in mind
this is just a hypothetical question. Of course the persons
personal information would be kept secret. But any thoughts on
this from anyone who may have dealt with a situation like this
before. I would appreciate any information that could be given
on this "thought". Please email me at my personal email address:
hbccufo.nul

Thank you
Brian


Castlegar/Nelson, British Columbia

Date: 1975, 1999, 2001
Time: Varies
Full Description of event/sighting: I have four stories to relate.

The Kootenays have always seemed to be a hot-bed of activity for
as long as I can remember and I have never heard your weekly
show on KBS Radio. I have not told anyone of these things aside
from my wife and brother. Especially the first one. Your
discretion is certainly appreciated. (HBCC UFO) - The witness
has granted me permission to post the reports and the person
will remain anonymous.

1. I was 12 years old and I was at the old Castlegar arena about
10:00 p.m. waiting for my brother to finish a hockey practice. I
went outside the arena with my mother and a friend of hers. We
walked to a coffee shop about 1/2 mile away. While on the way
back, we all noticed a very bright light in the sky. It was a
cool clear night in mid-March. The object was extremely bright.
It sort of was going straight and slow for about 20 seconds,
then made a very sudden turn to the right. It suddenly stopped
after a few more seconds. It was quite high up it seemed - 2-3
miles? At that point, several smaller lights or objects - I
counted at least seven, emerged from the light and were flying
around the still stationary larger object. The objects
eventually made their way across the sky away from view. Total
time - about 2-3 minutes. We were all quite puzzled by the
event. On a side note - I remember we were talking with my mom's
friend and her husband a few weeks later when they were over for
dinner. He told us when he was with the US military in the early
1970's, he was a radar operator responsible for an area in the
US mid-west. He used to track objects on the screen flying at
extreme speeds - but he was also warned to ignore them and to
keep his mouth shut. He was convinced from our descriptions,
that what we saw was definitely not a normal aircraft.

2. In 1999, my wife and two small children - 8 & 4 were
traveling to our home in Nelson from Castlegar. It was about
7:00 p.m. and overcast - no visible stars, in March. My wife and
my daughter noticed a very, very bright light flying very low
coming along from the passenger side at high speed. In a few
seconds it came into view in front of us. It looked about the
size and brightness of a streetlight at about 100-150 yards
away. There was just one bright white light, not strobing or
flashing. We were approaching a hill, and the light definitely
went over the hill. We arrived at the crest within about 10
seconds. When we arrived at the crest we all looked for the
light, but there was no evidence of the it, even though the hill
overlooks a fairly large valley.

3. In the fall of 1999 - Late September, I was playing golf with
a friend of mine on a Sunday morning at about 9:00 a.m.. We were
playing on the old number 2 hole (new #11) on the Granite Pointe
Golf Course. We both heard planes overhead, and we saw quite a
sight. At least three military type jets flying in close
formation around a much larger plane. The plane seemed to have a
very large tank or possibly craft underneath or attached to it's
belly. The planes were flying quite low. A Chemtrail/contrail
seemed to be coming from the bizarre looking craft or tank.
Later that day, a couple who live on Kootenay Lake - and a co-
worker of mine, - 5-6 miles away, saw several jets flying
patterns for over 20 minutes above the lake. The jets numbered
at least 4 -5 at any one time. and seemed to have a very large
amount of exhaust. All three of them claimed to have experienced
some respiratory discomfort after this incident.I have lived in
teh Trail/Nelson/Castlegar region for many years and have never
seen a military aircraft in the area aside from an airshow.

4. The most bizarre one though was in the summer - late July
2001. I was sleeping outside with my two kids - 10/6 under the
stars in the back yard. We have a very private backyard - lots
of trees/terraces and up against the mountain. The view from the
yard is great, with the lake and the City below. It was totally
clear warm mid-summers night and we looked at the various
constellations and spotted satellites and fell asleep at about
midnight.I woke up in the middle of the night - about 2:00 a.m.,
and immediately had a notion for whatever reason to turn my head
and look to the north. I saw what appeared to be an extremely
bright object traversing the sky in a north to south direction.
I thought at first it was an extremely low satellite as it had
no flashing lights whatsoever, just a continuous bright light
like a streetlight again at about 100 yards or so. But it was so
bright I wasn't really sure what it was. There was no noticeable
noise. All of a sudden after watching for about 8-10 seconds,
the object seemed to stop about halfway across the open sky, and
either slowly went out - just like turning off a TV that is
heated up - the light/picture goes very rapidly smaller, or it
just took off at an extreme speed in the opposite direction.
This all took place in a span of maybe 15 seconds. When it
"disappeared", my daughter who was unbeknownst to me awake and
obviously observing the same thing, commented "Dad, what was
that" and "I'm really scared right now". I also experienced a
very odd sensation right after the sighting. It felt eerie to
me. Almost a feeling of dread. We all went quickly inside the
house that night - ending our big camp-out.

5. My brother works in Alberta. One of his friends is a former
air traffic controller for the Edmonton International Airport.
In fact I believe he served for a time as the chief controller
at the airport before retired. He told my brother a couple of
times, that they would regularly see very odd objects on the
radar screen that would go at extreme speeds, and change
direction very quickly - definitely not conventional craft. The
controllers would contact Cold Lake AFB as they also covered
this area as to what they were flying out there. Cold Lake would
always reply to their enquiries "It is not ours, Edmonton".

My many thanks to the witness for the collection of reports.

Brian Vike, Director
HBCC UFO Research
Home - Phone 250 845 2189
email: hbccufo.nul
Website: http://www.hbccufo.com








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   Mar > Mar 4

                    Re: Martian 'Ski Slope'? - Stevenson

From: Colin Stevenson <colsweb.nul>
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 20:22:58 -0000
Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 16:24:11 -0500
Subject: Re: Martian 'Ski Slope'? - Stevenson


>From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 08:42:52 -0600
>Subject: Re: Martian 'Ski Slope'?

>>From: Colin Stevenson <colsweb.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 12:08:32 -0000
>>Subject: Martian 'Ski Slope'?

>>Could this be proof of Martian's outdoor sport activities?
>>Can not see any sign of any boulders at the end of the trails!

>>http://www.msss.com/mars_images/moc/2004/02/27/2004.02.27.R1102300.gif

>>http://jpl.convio.net/site/R?i=WIgc3J3ciCFO-3BCLCXxIg

>Yeah. Where did the boulders go? Broke up maybe.

Can not see much evidence of that even on extreme enlargement.

>I don't know how good skiing on Mars would be. Wouldn't the
>lower gravity tend to make you go re-e-e-eally slo-o-o-ow? Good
>for beginners, I suppose.

Depends on the steepness of the slope together with width/length
and wax of Ski's, but jumps would be outstandingly good and
that's my theory that the Martians jumped from the trail ends.
If the lister's get up enough money together to send me there I
could then ascertain the soundness of my theories. Ditto for the
Moon.

Col

http://www.colsweb.com







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                   Southern Ohio More Sightings & Rumours

From: Kenny Young <ufo.nul>
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 15:28:14 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 16:28:32 -0500
Subject: Southern Ohio More Sightings & Rumours


Source: The Shawnee Sentinel - Portsmouth. Ohio

http://www.portsmouthohio.info/

March 4, 2004


Flying Objects Near A-Plant Area
by Austin Leedom

Small, unidentified low-flying, slow-moving aircraft have been
reported in the area north of the Scioto County line in the A-
plant area. Several ideas about the purpose of the aircraft have
been offered.

Are the aircraft small patrol planes from Homeland Security
watching for Al-Quaida intrusions at the A-plant? Or perhaps the
craft are alien space ships that are flying close to the nuclear
plant to recharge their batteries before zooming off to Mars,
Pluto, Uranus, or other strange and unusual places such as
Cleveland, San Francisco or DisneyWorld.

One sighting was in the area of the Southbound Flea Market on
U.S. 23. Pike County residents said the craft was moving
silently from the direction of the A-plant just at dusk with
lights flashing. Are these aircraft something more sinister than
mere interplanetary cruise ships? Could these aircraft be attack
planes carrying weapons of mass deception? Or are they possibly
reconnaissance craft from an earthly nation? Or, are they merely
tourists gathering, practicing and preparing for a flying visit
to busy, vibrant, downtown Portsmouth?

In another sighting it was reported that an aircraft was seen
flying from the direction of Frasure�s Lake. Are the craft
secretly harbored in the hills of the wilderness of western
Scioto County? We don�t yet have the answers. If sightings
continue to be reported we will ask Doug Deepe to investigate.
He is an Air Force flying veteran; he will find the answer.

Several members of our staff think they have the answer. One
unsteady fellow even offered up the demented idea that the
aircraft are only silent hang-gliders powered by electricity.


--


UFO Research
http://home.fuse.net/ufo
Cincinnati UFO Hotline = 513-588-4548







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   Mar > Mar 4

                 Re: 1966-67 UFO Sighting Wave Study - Pope

From: Nick Pope <nick.nul>
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 21:01:09 -0000
Fwd Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 16:29:25 -0500
Subject: Re: 1966-67 UFO Sighting Wave Study - Pope



>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 11:24:54 +0000
>Subject: 1966-67 UFO Sighting Wave Study

>My detailed chronology and analysis of the 1966-67 UFO sighting
>wave is in the final stages of preparation, and tentatively
>scheduled for publication in April or May. It will be about 125
>pages and includes color graphics.

>Those of you who are too young to remember much about thiis
>important era of UFO history will find some of the facts and
>statistics to be mind-blowing. That wave comprised a microcosm
>of the entire UFO question and is well worth mining for
>knowledge and insights.

<snip>

Dick,

I look forward to seeing your analysis.

In case you've not come across them before, you might be
interested in the following figures, which show the number of
UFO sighting reports submitted to the UK Ministry of Defence:

1960 - 31
1961 - 71
1962 - 46
1963 - 51
1964 - 74
1965 - 56
1966 - 95
1967 - 362
1968 - 280
1969 - 228
1970 - 181

As you can see, 1967 was a significant year for ufology in the
UK too. We discussed some of the problems with figures in the
recent thread on Off-Season UFOs (a thread on which you
commented), but for what it's worth, these are the raw data.


Best wishes,

Nick Pope








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   Mar > Mar 5

             Re: Bigfoot Makes Appearance In Levittown - LeClair

From: Aaron LeClair <force.nul>
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 16:30:53 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 05:00:14 -0500
Subject: Re: Bigfoot Makes Appearance In Levittown - LeClair


>From: Louise A. Lowry <ShnSassy1.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 11:36:37 -0600
>Subject: Re: Bigfoot Makes Appearance In Levittown

>>From: Aaron LeClair <force.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 18:59:58 -0500
>>Subject: Re: Bigfoot Makes Appearance In Levittown

><snip>

>>Jeff Rense just did a show about bigfoot. Some guy is claiming
>>to be involved in the Patterson film. Says he dressed up in a
>>gorilla suit etc. You can listen to the show via the audio
>>archives, it's already up on the site. Personally, I currently
>>have problems with the claims, but I need to wait until more
>>info. comes out.

>>http://www.rense.com

>I have done some investigating on this sighting. I too have come
>to the conclusion that these tracks are indeed by boots, the
>stride of the prints would only set the person or creature to be
>around 6 feet tall and since there has been damage to a few of
>these imprints I would also say the person is around the 200 to
>225 pounds.

Interesting. Your estimate is very close, with the weight of the
alledged person in the suit during the Patterson film.. He said
he weighed around 190 pounds, and the suit weighed around 20
pounds he guessed. So, if he is correct, the weight should be
around 210. Your estimates are the first, and lowest I have
heard. I have heard estimates from 500 to 1000. I have no idea
if these estimates are right.









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   Mar > Mar 5

               Re: NASA-JPL May Have Cooked Their Own Goose! -

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 17:17:03 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 05:01:50 -0500
Subject: Re: NASA-JPL May Have Cooked Their Own Goose! -


>From: Paul Anderson <paulanderson.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 12:07:19 -0800
>Subject: Re: NASA-JPL May Have Cooked Their Own Goose!

>>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 15:50:55 -0500
>>Subject: NASA-JPL May Have Cooked Their Own Goose!

>>NASA-JPL has diagnosed the 'blueberries' as concretions formed
>>within a wet substrate. Aside from a few of the spheres and at
>>least one textbook splash-form dumb bell-shaped small object that
>>seem to be composed of translucent glass possibly knocked up and
>>frozen in flight by cosmic impact, my examination of many images
>>of the 'blueberries' taken under diverse light angles suggests
>>that they are right as to the origin of at least most of the
>>'blueberries'.

><snip>

>I think Ray might be right in his assessment. There are so many
>of these things; the soil all around the crater rim and bedrock
>is covered with them. They might be concretions all right, but
>why so many of them, as compared to most earthly examples? The
>vast number of them may itself indicate biological involvement,
>a fascinating idea. Could so many have just eroded out of
>bedrock in the normal sense? Squyres himself has said in earlier
>JPL briefings that some spherules come from the bedrock (we can
>see that) but that many probably do not. If the rover goes out
>onto the flat plain and the plain itself is covered with them,
>then what? Some of the pancam images I've looked at so far seem
>to hint at that, but they may be clustered just around the
>crater(s), we don't know yet. But soon now we will see. They
>could still be just "normal" concretions, with no biological
>involvement, but I think this hypothesis is an interesting
>possibility at this point, that should not be dismissed too
>quickly.

>There are also similar ideas now regarding zinc spherules on
>earth that can be created by colonies of microbes:

>http://www.sciencenews.org/20031115/bob9.asp

>Also, in this new Astrobiology Magazine article, they mention
>how even the sulfate-eating bacteria can produce round spores
>when they go dormant, with a photo of one, although those are
>probably a lot smaller, not sure (no size indication given). It
>includes quotes from Benton C. Clark who was in the NASA press
>conference panel and seems rather open-minded to the possibility
>of Martian life, at least in this form (see below):

http://www.astrobio.net/news/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=8
58&mode=threadℴ=0&thold=0

>or

>http://tinyurl.com/ytjvz

Thanks for your comments and the interesting links, Paul. I have
many dinosaur (and other) tracks that are literally 'armored'
with iron compounds associated with the bacterial colonies that
once covered their surfaces. It does an excellent job of
recording them as fossil tracks.

On occasion when crossing a stream when searching for Early
Cretaceous tracks and trackways, I come across the tracks in
clay of my own wading boots, from an earlier visit. When my boot
tracks are old enough and the waters have been calm for a good
while (no extreme flooding), I observe that, already, a thick,
reddish (from the action or ferrophagic bacteria) bacterial
slime already has begun to armor my tracks with iron compounds,
hopefully to be found by some paleoichnologist in the incredibly
distant future. Perhaps those denizens of the future will
realize that those were the boot tracks of a human so very long
ago, but will they ever decipher the words imprinted on the in
step, "Le Chameau", if they don't recognize the outline of a
camel within the brand logo? :)

Perhaps they will intellectually 'squint' at it as through a
poor quality lens, even as one might 'squint' at the UFO
mysteries and wonder, not comprehending who or what has passed
our way.

Ray Stanford

"You know my method. It is founded upon the observance of
trifles." -- Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery








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                         Re: The Illuminati - White

From: Eleanor White <eleanor.nul>
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 17:34:02 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 05:03:01 -0500
Subject: Re: The Illuminati - White


>From: Robert Gates <RGates8254.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 23:49:40 EST
>Subject: Re: The Illuminati

<snip>

>Why do we need to reach out to main stream science?

Because they have access to the minds of the government,
corporations, non-government organizations, the media, and the
public. UFOlogists don't at the present time.

Sadly, mainstream science is corrupt, and the proof of that is
shown when in-your-face, endlessly repeating phenomena like UFOs
and other paranormal events are ridiculed and ignored.
Scientists being human are just as corruptible as anyone else.

The lack of life detectors on the Mars rovers is another clear
cut case of scientific corruption. Ditto the refusal to
investigate the Cydonia region in detail.

I salute everyone who tries to expose, and by so doing reduce,
the corruption in current-day science so important issues like
UFOs can get heard and known to all. That's not being 'anti-
science', by the way.


Eleanor White








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                        Re: The Illuminati - Gehrman

From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman.nul>
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 14:38:25 -0800
Fwd Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 08:56:46 -0500
Subject: Re: The Illuminati - Gehrman


>From: Steven Kaeser <steve.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 13:57:54 -0500
>Subject: Re: The Illuminati

>>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 07:57:05 -0800
>>Subject: Re: The Illuminati

><snip>

>>Think about it, had our government embraced the UFO phenomenon
>>"publicly" instead of debunking the subject and ridiculing
>>witnesses and evidence, (for decades) we would have a much
>>different scenario today. Quite frankly, we might even have
>>members of the list who are from places much farther then
>>Brazil.
>There are many factors that have brought ufology to where it is
>today, and we could debate the strengths and weaknesses of them
>forever. Probably the turning point for respectability was the
>Colorado Project, which was used by Dr. Condon to gather and
>formalize evidence that supported his pre-existing beliefs about
>the subject. The debate wasn't all that different prior to the
>Condon Report, but this provided the Air Force with the excuse
>they needed to shut down Project Blue Book, which wasn't going
>anywhere, and also provided an (albeit flawed) scientific
>conclusion that there was little of importance to the study with
>regard to UFOs. To this day, many scientists view this as the
>official scientific study on the subject and believe that
>further research isn't justified. In addition, it is very
>difficult to secure research funds for a subject that has been
>dismissed by the "official" scientific community.

>But when you talk of public acceptance and beliefs, there are
>many subtle factors involved. One of those is the little
>understood effect of memes, which can help to form our beliefs
>through symbols that cross language and ethnic barriers. I would
>suggest that there are a number of symbols related to ufology
>that evoke feelings and beliefs by many, which has given those
>symbols a special standing.

Steven, Frank, List, EBK,

Another factor is that humans are, by nature, conservative and
resistant to change. Our hunter-gatherer ancestors lived for
hundreds of thousands of years without modifying their tool kits
or clothing styles, a fact inconceivable in our modern twenty-
first century society, but still observable in the habits of
most indigenous peoples.

Jung comments on this well known but seldom discussed condition
in "Man and His Symbols"(pg 31):

"I have already pointed out the existence among primitive
peoples of what anthropologists call 'misoneism', a deep and
superstitious fear of novelty. The primitives manifest all the
reactions of the wild animal against untoward events. But
civilized man reacts the same way, erecting psychological
barriers to protect himself from the shock of facing something
new."

Denial, disassociation, and intellectualization are just three
human "psychological barriers" know to inhibit discussion,
inquisitiveness, and understanding.


Ed









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                        Re: The Illuminati - Stanford

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 17:43:44 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 08:58:26 -0500
Subject: Re: The Illuminati - Stanford


>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 08:12:28 -0800
>Subject: Re: The Illuminati

>>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 17:28:04 -0500
>>Subject: Re: The Illuminati

>>>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 13:55:10 -0800
>>>Subject: Re: The Illuminati

><snip>

>>>4). In regards to their third point, and not even getting to
>>>"close encounters," etc., there is no known "man-made
>>>technology" that could duplicate the maneuvers of UFOs then and
>>>or now, therefore; "Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter
>>>necessitatem."

>>I cannot read the Latin, but the rest is well-said and
>>well- taken, Frank.

>>Excellent points, all.

>Occam's Razor - the simplest explanation is the one that is most
>likely to be correct, or KISS (keep it simple, stupid!)

I hope you will acknowledge "Occam's Razor" is not a scientific
principle but a philosophical one.

In many situations, natural and experimental, the simplest
seeming explanation commensurate with the facts is not always
the correct one. Of course, it often is, but "Occam's Razor" is
not always a panacea for getting to the truth of a situation.

It is, however, all too often a pelican's song as the bird sits
on a pier post, overlooking over an ocean of uncomprehended UFO
reality, just crapping all over the place.


Ray Stanford

"You know my method. It is founded upon the observance of
trifles." -- Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery








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                   2002 Story About A Russian UFO Incident

From: Gre Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 17:52:16 EST
Fwd Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 09:01:56 -0500
Subject: 2002 Story About A Russian UFO Incident


http://vn.vladnews.ru/arch/2002/iss342/News/upd19.HTM

Has anyone reported or investigated this incident?

Forgive me if I've missed something. Seems intriguing regarding
the police/govt. response detailed in the story.

Best,

Greg








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                  Re: New Phoenix Lights Book - Stockstill

From: Bill Stockstill <size14d.nul>
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 18:06:13 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 09:04:24 -0500
Subject: Re: New Phoenix Lights Book - Stockstill


>From: Josh Crockett <thirdeyeching.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 08:50:20 EST
>Subject: New Phoenix Lights Book

>The Inside Story of the Mysterious Lights over Phoenix

>On the evening of March 13, 1997, Lynne Kitei, M.D., looked out
>her bedroom window over Phoenix and saw something that would
>change her life.

<snip>

>More information can be found at the publishers website:

>http://www.hamptonroadspub.com/bookstore/product_ info.php?authors_id=225&produ
cts_id=344

Online movies at the book's website:

http://www.thephoenixlights.net/.

I interviewed Pheonix Councilwoman Frances Barwood in November
of 1997 on MSN's UFO Forum and if anyone is interested I can
clean up the log and post it here this weekend. Also, I have the
logs of several interviews I did while with MSN (late 90s)
including, Greg Long, Kal Korff, Clifford Stone, Dan Sherman,
Barry Greenwood, Jim Hickman, etc. if anyone is interested I
could clean them up and post them here.


Bill








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                 Re: 1966-67 UFO Sighting Wave Study - Hall

From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 23:29:23 +0000
Fwd Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 09:28:17 -0500
Subject: Re: 1966-67 UFO Sighting Wave Study - Hall


>From: Nick Pope <nick.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 21:01:09 -0000
>Subject: Re: 1966-67 UFO Sighting Wave Study

>>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 11:24:54 +0000
>>Subject: 1966-67 UFO Sighting Wave Study

>>My detailed chronology and analysis of the 1966-67 UFO sighting
>>wave is in the final stages of preparation, and tentatively
>>scheduled for publication in April or May. It will be about 125
>>pages and includes color graphics.

>>Those of you who are too young to remember much about thiis
>>important era of UFO history will find some of the facts and
>>statistics to be mind-blowing. That wave comprised a microcosm
>>of the entire UFO question and is well worth mining for
>>knowledge and insights.

>I look forward to seeing your analysis.

>In case you've not come across them before, you might be
>interested in the following figures, which show the number of
>UFO sighting reports submitted to the UK Ministry of Defence:

>1960 - 31
>1961 - 71
>1962 - 46
>1963 - 51
>1964 - 74
>1965 - 56
>1966 - 95
>1967 - 362
>1968 - 280
>1969 - 228
>1970 - 181

>As you can see, 1967 was a significant year for ufology in the
>UK too. We discussed some of the problems with figures in the
>recent thread on Off-Season UFOs (a thread on which you
>commented), but for what it's worth, these are the raw data.

Nick,

Thank you very much for this information. With your permission,
I would like to incorporate those annual sighting statistics in
my report. I am already including comparative data from Larry
Hatch's database. These cross-checks on databases and "raw data"
are very helpful.

Please send me your mailing address and I will see that you
receive a review copy of my report. Other Listers may also apply
for review copies, but will not receive them unless they specify
where the review will appear (and maybe not even then; too many
people looking for free handouts).

 - Dick










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                   Re: New Phoenix LIghts Book - Maccabee

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 19:18:58 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 09:33:16 -0500
Subject: Re: New Phoenix LIghts Book - Maccabee


>From: Josh Crockett <thirdeyeching.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 08:50:20 EST
>Subject: New Phoenix LIghts Book


>The Inside Story of the Mysterious Lights over Phoenix

>On the evening of March 13, 1997, Lynne Kitei, M.D., looked
>out her bedroom window over Phoenix and saw something that would
>change her life.

>Strange lights appeared in the sky over the nighttime city.
>Amber orbs in formation. It was a massive triangular array of
>lights moving silently but in unison as though they were
>connected. Many people throughout Phoenix and across the state
>of Arizona saw them.

>.Optical illusion? Unlikely. Military aircraft? That's what the >
>U.S. government wanted her to think. UFOs? That's what her
>evidence and subsequent years of careful research, interviews,
>and documentation, including photographic proof, strongly
>suggest. The result is The Phoenix Lights, a sober, well-
>researched account, both personal and scientific, of the story
>behind the lights, of the theories and cover-ups, the facts and
>denials that surrounded this event.

>Kitei, a well-respected Phoenix physician, had always thought of
>herself as grounded and practical, not one to be taken up with
>new age interests. But her firsthand experience and the
>undeniable reality of the photographs she took changed all that.
>She found herself a key insider in a complex mystery that has
>baffled humanity for centuries. What are UFOs? Who are the
>beings presumed to fly them? What do they want? How does it
>change your life to see one?

>The answers to these questions and more are found in The Phoenix
>Lights. Over the years since the sightings, she's become an
>ardent, tireless researcher into the truth of the Phoenix Lights
>and an advocate for public disclosure by the government about
>the subject of unexplained phenomena.

>More information can be found at the publishers website:

>http://www.hamptonroadspub.com/bookstore/product_info.php?authors_id=225&produc
ts_id=344

This is a "nice" and rather comprehensive book on the subject of
UFOs and the Phoenx events in particular. Although I am only
briefly mentioned in her book, I spent a lot of time, at her request,
analyzing her sightings, photos and videos, as well as videos
of others that were obtained in March, 1997 and during 1998.

My opinion of the "Phoenix Lights" videos is presented in detail
at my web site:

http://brumac.8k.com/phoenixlights1.html

I concluded, based on accurate triangulation, that the lights
she and others (Krzysten, Riordan) on March 13, 1997 at about 10
PM, videotaped were many tens of miles south of Phoenix, not
over Phoenix.

This also applied to other videos from 1998 that I analyzed.

I discovered that the lights were not perfectly stationary, but
moved downward (falling) and to the left - following a general
atmospheric air flow?

My analysis of the videos does not apply to the 8 to 9 PM event
that involved some huge object that traveled southward over a
considerable distance on March 13.

Her book covers this earlier event in detail, as well as others.
IMHO the 8-9 PM event involved a 'True UFO'. However IMHO, the
10 PM videos show lights that could be flares dropped over a
training range by the Maryland National Guard, about 60-80 miles
south of Phoenix (distance determined by triangulation).

On the other hand, she did have a UFO sighting on Feb. 6, 1995
which involved photos and more. I began studying this in 1998.

Unfortunately, I am not at liberty to discuss what I discovered
about that sighting from photoanalysis.

If I am correct in thinking that the March 13 lights she
videotaped - and others photographed and taped - were actually
flares, then the ironic thing would be that non-UFO sightings
spurred her to write her rather erudite book and to include
mention of the real UFO sighting which she never would have
mentioned publicly had it not been for the Phoenix Lights.








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               Re: NASA-JPL May Have Cooked Their Own Goose! -

From: Paul Anderson <paulanderson.nul>
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 16:40:23 -0800
Fwd Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 09:36:31 -0500
Subject: Re: NASA-JPL May Have Cooked Their Own Goose! -


>From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Wed,  3 Mar 2004 16:13:57 -0600
>Subject: Re: NASA-JPL May Have Cooked Their Own Goose!

>Hey, here's something interesting... some Mars blueberries have
>"stems."

>http://tinyurl.com/2vvnb

Good find! I had seen another possible one earlier from Sol 16,
but not quite as distinct, so I hadn't posted it yet being
unsure about it:

http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/1/p/016/1P129617432EFF0322P2260L7M1.J
PG

http://tinyurl.com/2sqkm

It is in the patch of otherwise bare soil near the bottom left
corner of the image; this one is sticking out of the soil, not
from a piece of bedrock (or maybe buried bedrock perhaps).

I had been wondering about that other spherule "sliced" by the
rover that seemed to have a protruding extension too.....








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                       Pyramids And Extraterrestrials

From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 22:01:19 EST
Fwd Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 09:40:33 -0500
Subject: Pyramids And Extraterrestrials


I have a theory regarding the construction of the great
Pyramids.

These monumental structures are found about the Earth.
Constructed of apparently quarried rock of such weight that
modern machinery cannot lift them.

Their precision of construction is such that it is almost
unfathomable by modern science.

So since our greatest scientists can't unravel this mystery the
only explanation is they were designed and constructed by or
with the assistance of extraterrestrials.

Yet I have another theory. Something that's gnawed at me for
years. It should have been as plain as the freckles on my face.
Yet it's so unorthodox I and others who have proposed this have
come under fire.

Here's my theory on who built these looming structures.

Get ready. It's a bit way out there.

I believe from all the data and evidence that the pyramids were
actually constructed by:

Very, very, very, very smart people.

I know, I know. It flies in the face of all convention yet
that's the best conclusion I've come up with.

Yes, it's quizzicle how people thousands of years ago could have
achieved these marvels of manufacture that all our modern
technologies cannot duplicate thus they must have been built by
aliens from space.

But even today my granma's Chrismas Snowball recipe cannot be
duplicated even with the most advanced computer technology.

I guess by default that means my grandma's dishes were created
by or via the assistance of benevolent aliens with a penchant
for yuletide cheer?


Tongue in cheek,

Greg








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                             Mars Rovers Update

From: Chaz Stuart <Daydisk2.nul>
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 23:53:21 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 09:43:20 -0500
Subject: Mars Rovers Update


Source: The Las Vegas Sun

Address:http://www.lasvegassun.com/sunbin/stories/text/2004/mar/04/030400764.htm
l

March 04, 2004


NASA Rover Photographs Mars Solar Eclipse

ASSOCIATED PRESS

PASADENA, Calif. (AP) - The NASA rover Opportunity turned a
camera skyward to photograph Mars' moon Deimos eclipsing the sun
and also carried out the most complex movements yet of its
robotic arm, Jet Propulsion Laboratory said Thursday.

The pictures of Deimos, "terror" in Greek mythology, were taken
by the rover's panoramic camera. Deimos is the smaller of Mars'
two moons. The pictures were not immediately released.

Opportunity also has been studying rocks and soil in a small
crater since landing on the Red Planet in late January.

Scientists announced this week that Opportunity returned strong
evidence that the ground at its landing site was once drenched
in water and would have been hospitable to life.

Opportunity had to execute 490 commands to accomplish a complex
operation of its instrument-laden robotic arm as it studied a
rock dubbed "Last Chance," JPL said.

The rover created three mosaics with its microscopic camera,
recording 128 images with more than 200 arm movements.

On the other side of Mars, Opportunity's twin, Spirit, spent
four hours grinding a 0.08 inch depression into the rock,
brushed the hole clean and began examining it with instruments.


Jet Propulsion Laboratory: http://www.jpl.nasa.gov









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                     Re: Filer's Files #10-2004 - McCoy

From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy.nul>
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 22:09:46 -0800
Fwd Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 09:49:53 -0500
Subject: Re: Filer's Files #10-2004 - McCoy


>From: Josh Goldstein <lovolution.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 17:36:17 -0800
>Subject: Re: Filer's Files #10-2004

>>From: Aaron LeClair <force.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 16:40:22 -0500
>>Subject: Re: Filer's Files #10-2004

><snip>

>>Anyone know Jeff Rense personally? I don't, but been wondering
>>why he has Filer on so much...

>>Hurts thecredibility of his show I would imagine.

>In my opinion Jeff Rense has George Filer on his site is that
>they both lack credibility. Filer has his own wacky opinions and
>I believe Rense uses the most dubious sources on his site.

>In the past I have posted messages regarding Rense and they
>contained specifics. You can look them up in the archives. I
>believe Rense is antisemitic with his support of Ernst Zundel, a
>notorious neo-Nazi holocaust denier. Rense was trying to prevent
>him from being deported from Canada. There are other things he
>has posted that reinforce my belief that Rense is not just
>anti-Israel but truly antisemitic.

>I believe that Rense in general is a biased conspiracy nut and
>hate monger who appeals to people who do not bother to look for
>the truth but need his site to reinforce their beliefs. He uses
>Barry Chamish (a fellow Jew) for his UFO stories. Chamish has no
>credibility reporting on UFO issues but just spreads his
>unfounded opinions. In Israel, Chamish is considered a real nut
>case.

>I feel Rense's credibility is less than zero and he runs a site
>that features people lacking credibility and lacking
>credentials.

Hello, All Josh.

As one who wouldn't pass an Arayan Test, I agree with Josh.
While I don't ascribe nefarious intent on George Filer's part -
Rense is a differnet story. He has been one who seems to see a
Jew around every conspiracy, or at least supporting people who
do. To deny the Holocaust or support those who do, is to defy
the eyewitness Testimony of my late Father-in-Law Carl Miller, a
Geman-American.

Carl was one of the first Americans into Dachau, no Nazis just
the walking dead. Then there were the dead. Heaps and piles of
them. The Nazis were trying to scrub the smokestacks clean of
human fat - then left. The Third Army was arriving.....


GT McCoy








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               Re: Tracing The Flow Of The Gulf Breeze Money -

From: Robert Gates <RGates8254.nul>
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 01:17:11 EST
Fwd Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 09:52:19 -0500
Subject: Re: Tracing The Flow Of The Gulf Breeze Money -


>From: Kenny Young <ufo.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 22:42:56 -0500
>Subject: Re: Tracing The Flow Of The Gulf Breeze Money

>>From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 21:59:29 -0400
>>Subject: Re: Tracing The Flow Of The Gulf Breeze Money

>>I will go with Bruce any time based on his
>>far more careful, detailed, objective explanations for any
>>conclusion he has reached in the past.

>Ed Walters too? Don't forget, he's part of the crew.

>But you must be right, of course. How silly of us to examine
>this case and how unnecessary for the case data to be
>challenged, and what a crime to examine the motivations of its
>promoters and what a distraction to look for a money trail After
>all, the Gulf Breeze investigation stands as an example of naked
>science at its best, the essence of impartial, objective and
>unadulterated inquiry.

Kenny,

I don't have any problem with people looking at a case and
examining the facts. Personally I thought the accusation was a
rather serious one and am sincerely interested in any evidence
that Jerry might have. However as the thread went along it was
obvious to me (and should be to you also) that whether whether
you or I like it or not Jerry Black has not produced any
evidence to support his claims/tales/allegations that Ed gave
some kind of bundle of cash to MUFON to bank roll the
investigation and somehow, someway that same amount of cash was
given to Bruce to bias the investigation.

In essence Jerry is repeating tales and stories told to him
allegedly by the other three.

In a similar vane, we have heard allegations that somebody put
words in the mouth of Vickie Lyons, and that one of the other
people Jerry cites in his story was involved with some abductee
group... allegedly less then honourable. Just like with Jerry's
stories we haven't seen any proof, just another story.

I am still waiting.

Cheers,

Robert







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                             Barry Chamish Site

From: Barry Chamish <chamish.nul>
Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 16:01:45 -0800
Fwd Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 09:57:05 -0500
Subject: Barry Chamish Site


Hi,

I now have my own site. Please have a look at:

http://www.barrychamish.com


Best,

Barry








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                 Re: JPL/NASA's Ho Hum Conference - Fleming

From: Lan Fleming <lfleming6.nul>
Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 07:41:31 -0600
Fwd Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 10:00:18 -0500
Subject: Re: JPL/NASA's Ho Hum Conference - Fleming


>From: Paul Anderson <paulanderson.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 12:06:49 -0800
>Subject: Re: JPL/NASA's Ho Hum Conference

>>From: Lan Fleming <lfleming6.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 12:35:19 -0600
>>Subject: Re: JPL/NASA's Ho Hum Conference

>>Here is the evidence they're "hiding," but they're hiding it in
>>full view:

>>http://www3.telus.net/paulanderson/mer.html

>>They're not actually hiding it, of course. They're just ignoring
>>it or dismissing it with lame off-the-cuff explanations when
>>someone has the bad manners to point out to them that these
>>things are in their rover images. JPL doesn't actually need to
>>hide evidence when it's much easier for them to just spin it
>>away.

>Thanks for the link Lan, appreciate it. Just so the List knows,
>I started this side-project if you will (apart from my crop
>circle studies/CCCRN), as space exploration, planetary missions
>in particular, has been a life-long passion of mine, long before
>I ever heard of flattened wheat(!). I've been following these
>new MER missions with much interest. I may expand this later but
>for now at least a chronology of highlights, linked to my
>personal web site, including some of the more interesting
>anomalies.

Yes, now I see what sort of mischief you get into when crop
circles are out of season. :)

>And personally I am excited about the water discovery; yes we
>had good evidence before this for liquid water in the past, but
>now we have the direct on-the-spot proof, for water in large
>amounts and long- lasting, that's the key difference. Whether
>that was from hydrothermal sources or a standing salty lake or
>sea remains to be seen, but is exciting either way.

The evidence presented was certainly important, but hardly
surprising.

I would have been a lot happier with the press conference had
Dr. Squyres not responded to the single question asked about
evidence for present-day liquid water at the rover sites by
asserting that it's "too brutally cold" on Mars to consider that
possibility.

That statement was not simply an expression of scientific
conservatism; it showed a wreckless disregard for the facts.

The temperature does get above the freezing point on Mars, and
the presence of salts can keep water in the liquid state well
below the freezing point of pure water.

After hearing them talk about the high salt concentrations, I'd
have expected one of these experts would have made the
connection, however tentatively, between the salts and the "mud-
like" material found at the rover site.

Trying to find the appropriate connections between observations
is basically what science is about.








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   Mar > Mar 5

                         Re: The Illuminati - Warren

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 06:20:06 -0800
Fwd Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 10:05:05 -0500
Subject: Re: The Illuminati - Warren


>From: Steven Kaeser <steve.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 13:57:54 -0500
>Subject: Re: The Illuminati

>>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 07:57:05 -0800
>>Subject: Re: The Illuminati

><snip>

>>>'Ufology' is responsible for its failures, and not 'the powers
>>>that be'. It is an 'easy out' to plead for 'disclosure', seeking
>>>a political solution, but science is not done that way. Those
>>>who blame their failures on others seldom succeed in anything
>>>really important.

>>Au contraire mes ami! There is a phenomenon unto itself Ray,
>>that occurred from years of "debunking UFO sightings," an "after
>>effect" or "side-effect" if you will, that IMHO has been
>>responsible, for the most part, for the "current mindset" of
>>mainstream science (as well as public opinion) in regards to
>>Ufology. This phenomenon has crossed generations and in a sense
>>is a form of "mind control." Now I don't mean that in a
>>"diabolical sense," however; the end result is the same - "cause
>>and effect!"

>>Think about it, had our government embraced the UFO phenomenon
>>"publicly" instead of debunking the subject and ridiculing
>>witnesses and evidence, (for decades) we would have a much
>>different scenario today. Quite frankly, we might even have
>>members of the list who are from places much farther then
>>Brazil.

Mornin' Steve,

>There are many factors that have brought ufology to where it is
>today, and we could debate the strengths and weaknesses of them
>forever. Probably the turning point for respectability was the
>Colorado Project, which was used by Dr. Condon to gather and
>formalize evidence that supported his pre-existing beliefs about
>the subject. The debate wasn't all that different prior to the
>Condon Report, but this provided the Air Force with the excuse
>they needed to shut down Project Blue Book, which wasn't going
>anywhere, and also provided an (albeit flawed) scientific
>conclusion that there was little of importance to the study with
>regard to UFOs. To this day, many scientists view this as the
>official scientific study on the subject and believe that
>further research isn't justified. In addition, it is very
>difficult to secure research funds for a subject that has been
>dismissed by the "official" scientific community.

The "Condon Report" is part of the machinery to which I am
speaking. IMHO, I think it's safe to say that "the closure of
Blue Book was premeditated," and the Condon Report was just the
"stamp of approval" to do so.

>But when you talk of public acceptance and beliefs, there are
>many subtle factors involved. One of those is the little
>understood effect of memes, which can help to form our beliefs
>through symbols that cross language and ethnic barriers. I would
>suggest that there are a number of symbols related to ufology
>that evoke feelings and beliefs by many, which has given those
>symbols a special standing.

I would carry that a step further, and reinforce the "effect of
memes" in regards to the perception of our government in the
40's and 50's. We didn't question our government then as we do
today; we were confident in what they told us - if that's what
they say - then of course that's the way it is.

Initially, the government publicly admitted ignorance to the
"Flying Disk" [sic] phenomenon - but of course how can any
government continue to tell its people that they "don't know"
what's flying in their own airspace? Answer: In a new "Cold War
World" - they can't! Better to "explain it away" and take
control, and pacify the public's anxiety and curiosity. When the
Air Force tells you that silvery disc shaped object you just saw
flying by was swamp gas, a hallucination or a heat inversion, of
course it must be - it's silly to think otherwise.

This propaganda (cause) instituted a meme (effect) which
dominated  the majority of public thinking (as well as
mainstream science) for decades. Personally, I don't think this
was intentional, just a beneficial "side-effect" for the
powers-that-be.

>I've often been told of the "Good 'ol Days" when the phone at
>the NICAP office would ring off the hook when sightings took
>place, and reporters would walk in daily to get the latest
>reports and see if they could use them. But nothing remains the
>same, and ufology will probably resemble something different a
>decade from now.

The effect that the public succumbed to, also permeated the
media over time, (along with some help apparently) as UFO
sightings went from "front page news" to getting buried towards
the back of the paper, and why not, as when a sighting caught
officialdom's eye - there would be a perfectly plausible
explanation for it - albeit a not to exciting one. Gradually,
mainstream media would pass on UFO sightings altogether, and it
would end up being fodder for the tabloids.

Today, when a sighting of substance is seen, although it might
get air time and honorable mention in the papers locally, it's
"choked" from going abroad in most cases, and if it happens to
get a "national blip" it's generally done in jes,t accompanied
with guffaws etc.

I've always said that the media is the most powerful weapon on
the planet, and the most powerful people are those that control
it! If the goal is to get "mainstream science" to grasp the UFO
phenomenon, then devise a way to get the media to embrace it,
(seriously) and mainstream science will follow in kind.


Cheers,

Frank










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   Mar > Mar 5

                        Re: The Illuminati - Lehmberg

From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg.nul>
Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 08:04:51 -0600
Fwd Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 10:06:34 -0500
Subject: Re: The Illuminati - Lehmberg


>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 17:43:44 -0500
>Subject: Re: The Illuminati

>>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 08:12:28 -0800
>>Subject: Re: The Illuminati

<snip>

>It is, however, all too often a pelican's song as the bird sits
>on a pier post, overlooking over an ocean of uncomprehended UFO
>reality, just crapping all over the place.


...and the barfing!  Don't forget the barfing! LOL!

Lehmberg.nul

EXPLORE "AlienViewGroup" at its HostPros URL.
http://www.alienview.net


JOHN FORD RESTORATION FUND -- John will be released eventually.
He'll need a tax free cash stake to get on his feet. Let's put
one together for him; the bigger it is -- the more attention
he gets. It could have been you. E-mail for detail.
$450.00 pledged -- $200.00 collected!

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite.
What others see from afar, I leave far behind me."
- Giordano Bruno, scourged by the scabrously specious scurrilous.








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   Mar > Mar 5

                        Re: New Virus Threat - Kaeser

From: Steven Kaeser <steve.nul>
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 09:12:01 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 10:10:06 -0500
Subject: Re: New Virus Threat - Kaeser


>From: Terry Groff <terry.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 15:39:39 -0600
>Subject: Re: New Virus Threat

>>From: Dan Bright <ufo.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 18:43:55 -0000
>>Subject: New Virus Threat

>>Listers,

>>Beware.

>>I today received the "Bagle.K" virus/worm, which went un-
>>detected by both the anti-virus defences on my host server and
>>my local machine. Luckily I suspected this was indeed a virus,
>>and therefore the security of my system was not compromised.
>>However, this particular event serves to highlight just how
>>insidious these viruses are becoming.

<snip>

>I have received several of these in the last couple of days.
>Fortunately I could tell immediately that they were bogus
>because they came from a nonexistent email address from my own
>mail server. I don't have a "support_at_terrygroff.com". Plus
>MailWasher allows me to view the text and headers before I
>actually DL it to my PC.


The .zip file is password protected to prevent many AV products
from scanning it. This relies on the 'dumb human' to open the
email, save the attached .zip, open it, and then enter a
password to access the infector file.

If run, the system will likely not be able to scan it as it
loads into memory and you're infected.

The Bagle variants are part of the cyber war going on between two
anonymous groups, who are compeition with each other, and this
past week has been a real mess for those of us who support AV
deployment.


Steve








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                         Re: The Illuminati - Warren

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 07:00:24 -0800
Fwd Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 10:12:48 -0500
Subject: Re: The Illuminati - Warren


>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 17:43:44 -0500
>Subject: Re: The Illuminati

>>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 08:12:28 -0800
>>Subject: Re: The Illuminati

<snip>

Mornin' Ray,

>I hope you will acknowledge "Occam's Razor" is not a scientific
>principle but a philosophical one.

I will concede that William of Occam was a philospher, however;
"Occam's Razor" does have "scientific merit."

>In many situations, natural and experimental, the simplest
>seeming explanation commensurate with the facts is not always
>the correct one. Of course, it often is, but "Occam's Razor" is
>not always a panacea for getting to the truth of a situation.

Agreed.

>It is, however, all too often a pelican's song as the bird sits
>on a pier post, overlooking over an ocean of uncomprehended UFO
>reality, just crapping all over the place.

Occam's Razor" is of course used with those who have a "limited
view" of things, I believe it applies in reverse however, in the
broader scope of things.


Cheers,

Frank









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                      UFO Conference In Eureka Springs

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 07:16:00 -0800
Fwd Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 10:17:53 -0500
Subject: UFO Conference In Eureka Springs


Source: The Cabot Star Herald - Arkansas

http://www.cabotstarherald.com/Pages/03-04-04/News%20briefs.htm

March 4 2004

UFO conference in Eureka Springs

The 16th annual Ozark UFO Conference is April 9-11 in Eureka
Springs. The program will include personal accounts of UFO
experiences, audio-visual presentations, and a lineup of nine
presenters including researchers, science reporters, and a
retired military colonel.

Additional details and registration information are available by
calling 501-354-2558 or visiting the conference Web site at:

http://www.ozarkufo.com










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                        Re: The Illuminati - Friedman

From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul>
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 10:41:17 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 10:21:03 -0500
Subject: Re: The Illuminati - Friedman


>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 17:43:44 -0500
>Subject: Re: The Illuminati

<snip>

>I hope you will acknowledge "Occam's Razor" is not a scientific
>principle but a philosophical one.

>In many situations, natural and experimental, the simplest
>seeming explanation commensurate with the facts is not always
>the correct one. Of course, it often is, but "Occam's Razor" is
>not always a panacea for getting to the truth of a situation.

>It is, however, all too often a pelican's song as the bird sits
>on a pier post, overlooking over an ocean of uncomprehended UFO
>reality, just crapping all over the place.

The funniest thing about Occam's razor, as applied to UFOs, is
that the simplest explanation for observations of obviously
manufactured, seemingly metallic, craft capable of maneuvers
which Terran seemingly metallic aircraft cannot duplicate, is a
craft built somewhere other than earth, by intelligent beings
more advanced than are terrans.

Considering all the time available for advanced beings elsewhere
than on earth to develop advanced technology, what is the big
deal?


Stan Friedman
www.stantonfriedman.com








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                        Re: The Illuminati - Friedman

From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul>
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 10:45:54 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 10:23:30 -0500
Subject: Re: The Illuminati - Friedman


>From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 14:38:25 -0800
>Subject: Re: The Illuminati

>>From: Steven Kaeser <steve.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 13:57:54 -0500
>>Subject: Re: The Illuminati

>>>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 07:57:05 -0800
>>>Subject: Re: The Illuminati

<snip>

>Denial, disassociation, and intellectualization are just three
>human "psychological barriers" known to inhibit discussion,
>inquisitiveness, and understanding.


Having just watched the 2 hour video of my debate with Major
MaGaha on Jan. 28, 2004, at Middle Tennessee State University, I
can say it provides a lot of examples of D, D, and I.


Stan Friedman
www.stantonfriedman.com







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                 Re: Pyramids And Extraterrestrials - Sandow

From: Greg Sandow <greg.nul>
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 10:35:13 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 10:51:46 -0500
Subject: Re: Pyramids And Extraterrestrials - Sandow


>From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
>Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 22:01:19 EST
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Subject: Pyramids And Extraterrestrials

>So since our greatest scientists can't unravel this mystery
>the only explanation is they were designed and constructed by
>or with the assistance of extraterrestrials.

>Yet I have another theory. Something that's gnawed at me for
>years. It should have been as plain as the freckles on my face.
>Yet it's so unorthodox I and others who have proposed this
>have come under fire.

>Here's my theory on who built these looming structures.

>Get ready. It's a bit way out there.

>I believe from all the data and evidence that the pyramids
>were actually constructed by:

>Very, very, very, very smart people.

Thanks, Greg, for a very, very, very, very smart answer.

In one of Thor Heyerdahl's books, you can read how he solved the
mystery of the Easter Island statues. Those seemed so large and
heavy that indigenous islanders could never have built them.
Mystery lovers speculated, just as Greg recounts about the
pyramids, that the statues must have been built by aliens.

So one night, Thor Heyerdahl asked some people living on the
island now if they knew how the statues got there. I think
they'd all been drinking. The islanders went out, found a statue
that had toppled over, and showed Heyerdahl how their ancestors
had used simple but very, very, very, very smart technology to
lift the statues up. Carving them, of course, would have been no
problem. The mystery was how the statues were lifted to be
upright. The answer turned out to be very ordinary (except for
the technological skill involved). And, let's note, the
islanders could have solved the mystery at any time, but until
Heyerdahl came along, nobody ever asked them.


Greg Sandow








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   Mar > Mar 5

               Re: NASA-JPL May Have Cooked Their Own Goose! -

From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 09:41:09 -0600
Fwd Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 10:53:31 -0500
Subject: Re: NASA-JPL May Have Cooked Their Own Goose! -


>From: Paul Anderson <paulanderson.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 16:40:23 -0800
>Subject: Re: NASA-JPL May Have Cooked Their Own Goose!

>>From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 16:13:57 -0600
>>Subject: Re: NASA-JPL May Have Cooked Their Own Goose!

>>Hey, here's something interesting... some Mars blueberries have
>>"stems."

>>http://tinyurl.com/2vvnb

>Good find! I had seen another possible one earlier from Sol 16,
>but not quite as distinct, so I hadn't posted it yet being
>unsure about it:

http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/1/p/016/1P129617432EFF0322P2260L7M1.J
PG

>http://tinyurl.com/2sqkm

>It is in the patch of otherwise bare soil near the bottom left
>corner of the image; this one is sticking out of the soil, not
>from a piece of bedrock (or maybe buried bedrock perhaps).

That's a good one. Looks like a little round mushroom sticking
up. And you've got some other stemmed blueberries there sticking
out of the rocks. Fun.








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                Re: UFO Conference In Eureka Springs - Groff

From: Terry Groff <terry.nul>
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 09:48:12 -0600
Fwd Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 10:54:28 -0500
Subject: Re: UFO Conference In Eureka Springs - Groff


>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 07:16:00 -0800
>Subject: UFO Conference In Eureka Springs

>Source: The Cabot Star Herald - Arkansas

>http://www.cabotstarherald.com/Pages/03-04-04/News%20briefs.htm

>March 4 2004

>UFO conference in Eureka Springs

>The 16th annual Ozark UFO Conference is April 9-11 in Eureka
>Springs. The program will include personal accounts of UFO
>experiences, audio-visual presentations, and a lineup of nine
>presenters including researchers, science reporters, and a
>retired military colonel.

>Additional details and registration information are available by
>calling 501-354-2558 or visiting the conference Web site at:

>http://www.ozarkufo.com

Eureka Springs is one of my favorite towns on this whole planet.
I haven't been there since '94 to play at the Eureka Springs
Blues Festival but I can guarantee that the town has not
changed. There are still no traffic signals and every downtown
store front has to remain the same by local ordinance. If you
tear down a building, you have to rebuild it to look exactly the
same as the original.

If you dare, you can stay at the Crescent Hotel which abounds
with Ghost stories. Even just visiting the hotel in the day time
filled with people it gave me goosebumps.

This might be your chance to talk personally with Linda Moulton
Howe about her Oliveira "investigation".


Terry








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                 Re: Pyramids And Extraterrestrials - Shell

From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 09:52:30 -0600
Fwd Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 11:29:09 -0500
Subject: Re: Pyramids And Extraterrestrials - Shell


>From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
>Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 22:01:19 EST
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Subject: Pyramids And Extraterrestrials

>I have a theory regarding the construction of the great
>Pyramids.

>I believe from all the data and evidence that the pyramids were
>actually constructed by:

>Very, very, very, very smart people.

There's a tendency for us to think of ourselves (modern humans)
as being somehow generally more intelligent than our ancient
ancestors because we know how to drive cars and work computers
and stuff. But people weren't stupid in the past. If anything,
they might have had to be a little more clever just to survive.
And 10,000 years ago, just like now, there were a few Leonardo
DaVincis and Albert Einsteins walking around in the general
population. And since the population was so much smaller, these
exceptional individuals would less likely have been lost in the
shuffle and more likely gain the attention of a smart king or
emperor to do wome extraordinary work.

Also, honestly, some of the pyramids found around the world
aren't really built that well. Or at least could have been built
a lot better, had they been built by super-intelligent aliens.








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                        Re: Barry Chamish Site - Hall

From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 16:17:21 +0000
Fwd Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 11:31:35 -0500
Subject: Re: Barry Chamish Site - Hall


>From: Barry Chamish <chamish.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 16:01:45 -0800
>Subject: Barry Chamish Site

>Hi,

>I now have my own site. Please have a look at:

>http://www.barrychamish.com


I did, and I must say it fits right in with much of the other
wild-eyed, conspiratorial bushwah that is popping up with
appalling frequency on this site.

What's next? Hitler is alive in Antarctica and harboring flying
saucers inside the hole in the pole? And the Evil Government
(which isn't well-organized enough to do the bizarre things
credited to it as if it were a monolithic entity) knows all
about it.

The Illuminati-World Banker-Jeiwsh cabalists are suppressing
the truth because they are in private negotiations with the
Inner Earth Empire to exchange human beings to aliens for flying
saucer technology. Of course, Bob Lazar tried to break the
secret... gag! *cough*


- Dick







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                 Re: UFO Conference In Eureka Springs - Hall

From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 16:52:25 +0000
Fwd Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 13:57:56 -0500
Subject: Re: UFO Conference In Eureka Springs - Hall


>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 07:16:00 -0800
>Subject: UFO Conference In Eureka Springs

>Source: The Cabot Star Herald - Arkansas

>http://www.cabotstarherald.com/Pages/03-04-04/News%20briefs.htm

>March 4 2004

>UFO conference in Eureka Springs

>The 16th annual Ozark UFO Conference is April 9-11 in Eureka
>Springs. The program will include personal accounts of UFO
>experiences, audio-visual presentations, and a lineup of nine
>presenters including researchers, science reporters, and a
>retired military colonel.

>Additional details and registration information are available by
>calling 501-354-2558 or visiting the conference Web site at:

>http://www.ozarkufo.com

Just take a look at the line-up of speakers for this conference
if you want to obtain a clue why we are not taken seriously!

It appears to me that the organizers of conferences like this
are part of a vast universal consiracy to make the subject look
as silly and mindless as possible. In fact, they probably are
secretly financed by the *gasp* Illuminazis.

 - Dick









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                      Re: Barry Chamish Site - Lehmberg

From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg.nul>
Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 11:03:53 -0600
Fwd Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 13:59:30 -0500
Subject: Re: Barry Chamish Site - Lehmberg


>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 16:17:21 +0000
>Subject: Re: Barry Chamish Site

>>From: Barry Chamish <chamish.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 16:01:45 -0800
>>Subject: Barry Chamish Site

>>I now have my own site. Please have a look at:

>>http://www.barrychamish.com

>I did, and I must say it fits right in with much of the other
>wild-eyed, conspiratorial bushwah that is popping up with
>appalling frequency on this site.

>What's next? Hitler is alive in Antarctica and harboring flying
>saucers inside the hole in the pole? And the Evil Government
>(which isn't well-organized enough to do the bizarre things
>credited to it as if it were a monolithic entity) knows all
>about it.

>The Illuminati-World Banker-Jeiwsh cabalists are suppressing
>the truth because they are in private negotiations with the
>Inner Earth Empire to exchange human beings to aliens for flying
>saucer technology. Of course, Bob Lazar tried to break the
>secret... gag! *cough*


...Jeez, Mr. Hall... I'm sure it's a whole lot worse than any of
that. <g>

Lehmberg.nul

EXPLORE "AlienViewGroup" at its HostPros URL.
http://www.alienview.net


JOHN FORD RESTORATION FUND -- John will be released eventually.
He'll need a tax free cash stake to get on his feet. Let's put
one together for him; the bigger it is -- the more attention he
gets. It could have been you. E-mail for detail. $450.00 pledged
-- $200.00 collected!

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite.
What others see from afar, I leave far behind me."
- Giordano Bruno, scourged by the scabrously specious scurrilous.








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               Re: NASA-JPL May Have Cooked Their Own Goose! -

From: Lan Fleming <lfleming6.nul>
Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 12:43:00 -0600
Fwd Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 14:03:40 -0500
Subject: Re: NASA-JPL May Have Cooked Their Own Goose! -


>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 08:56:12 -0500
>Subject: Re: NASA-JPL May Have Cooked Their Own Goose! -

>>From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 16:13:57 -0600
>>Subject: Re: NASA-JPL May Have Cooked Their Own Goose!

<snip>

>>Hey, here's something interesting... some Mars blueberries have
>>"stems."

>>http://tinyurl.com/2vvnb

>Thanks for the 'heads-up", Tim. They look as though they are
>analogs of the Early Cretaceous 'bedroom with entrance-exit
>tunnel' invertebrate trace fossils (ichnites) that I find
>preserved due to bacteria-aided concretion lining having formed
>upon their walls (See my explanation of yesterday.) that I find
>here in Maryland. Some of the concretion-preserved tunnels and
>'bedrooms' (and/or nests?) are still hollow, some are in-filled,
>having become natural casts within concretional 'molds'.

I just saw that image the other day. It's truly astounding. The
MER scientists say these spherules are concretions, which as I
understand it are minerals that precipitate around a nucleus
impurity and grow radially out from it, forming a more or less
spherical object. How and why would a concretion form a slender
stem of uniform diameter?

It might be the case that all of these spherules had such stems
at one time or another. Before this image came to light, I read
about people conjecturing that the small singular holes seen in
some of the "blueberries" might be points at which a stem had
been broken off. There may be something to that. There's also a
blueberry sectioned by the RAT that has a stem:

http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/1/m/034/1M131212783EFF0500P2959M2M1.J
PG

(Sorry, I don't know how to do the tiny url thing.)

The spherule with the stem is in the upper right part of the image. Other
examples of stemmed spherules have been found, too.


>I think the NASA-JPL 'goose' (alleging that no signs of past or
>present life have been found on Mars) is now possibly cooked. :)
>They should have had an expert in paleoichnology (researcher of
>ancient traces) on staff and this slip-up would not have
>happened. Serves those old-fashioned geologists right. :) Even a
>good biologist might have recognized these as signs of ancient
>life! It is shameful to what degree over-specialization has
>seemingly blinded NASA-JPL!


Back when he was the Administrator, even Dan Goldin complained
about the lack of people trained in biology who worked in the
space sciences -- as if he didn't share some of the blame for
that. Paul Anderson found out that there was an astrobioligist
at the news conference, but he didn't say anything that would
give away his interests. I guess it's not yet politically
acceptable for an astrobiologist to talk about astrobiology, but
at least NASA will let one of them sit on the same podium with
the geologists. That's an improvement, I suppose.








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                 Re: 1966-67 UFO Sighting Wave Study - Pope

From: Nick Pope <nick.nul>
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 18:45:16 -0000
Fwd Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 18:27:05 -0500
Subject: Re: 1966-67 UFO Sighting Wave Study - Pope


>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 23:29:23 +0000
>Subject: Re: 1966-67 UFO Sighting Wave Study

>>From: Nick Pope <nick.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 21:01:09 -0000
>>Subject: Re: 1966-67 UFO Sighting Wave Study

<snip>

>>In case you've not come across them before, you might be
>>interested in the following figures, which show the number of
>>UFO sighting reports submitted to the UK Ministry of Defence:

>>1960 - 31
>>1961 - 71
>>1962 - 46
>>1963 - 51
>>1964 - 74
>>1965 - 56
>>1966 - 95
>>1967 - 362
>>1968 - 280
>>1969 - 228
>>1970 - 181

>>As you can see, 1967 was a significant year for ufology in the
>>UK too. We discussed some of the problems with figures in the
>>recent thread on Off-Season UFOs (a thread on which you
>>commented), but for what it's worth, these are the raw data.

>Nick,

>Thank you very much for this information. With your permission,
>I would like to incorporate those annual sighting statistics in
>my report. I am already including comparative data from Larry
>Hatch's database. These cross-checks on databases and "raw data"
>are very helpful.

>Please send me your mailing address and I will see that you
>receive a review copy of my report. Other Listers may also apply
>for review copies, but will not receive them unless they specify
>where the review will appear (and maybe not even then; too many
>people looking for free handouts).

Dick,

There's no difficulty with using the figures, and no permission
is necessary, as they're already in the public domain. I have
figures from 1959 to 2000, inclusive, if you or other List
members are interested. Some had been in the public domain for
many years, I collated and released others during my tour of
duty on the Ministry of Defence's 'UFO Desk', and figures from
1995 onwards have emerged as a result of questions asked in
Parliament, or posed by journalists and ufologists. But all
figures are the official MOD ones, and can be referenced as
such.

I'll email you my mailing address off-List, and look forward to
receiving a review copy of your report.


Best wishes,

Nick








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                          Abductees And Medication?

From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 14:04:13 EST
Fwd Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 18:33:52 -0500
Subject: Abductees And Medication?


Hi List,

Question arose about abductees.

Anyone have data on whether or not abductees were prescribed
pharmaceuticals in relation to their abductee experience?

This is on several levels. Psychiatric medication, physical
injury medication.

Is there a generalized combination of medications?


Best,

Greg








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                        Re: The Illuminati - Stanford

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 14:10:17 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 18:35:08 -0500
Subject: Re: The Illuminati - Stanford


>From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 08:04:51 -0600
>Subject: Re: The Illuminati

>>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 17:43:44 -0500
>>Subject: Re: The Illuminati

>>>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 08:12:28 -0800
>>>Subject: Re: The Illuminati

><snip>

>>It is, however, all too often a pelican's song as the bird sits
>>on a pier post, overlooking over an ocean of uncomprehended UFO
>>reality, just crapping all over the place.

>...and the barfing!  Don't forget the barfing! LOL!

I was brought up on the Texas gulf coast and never saw a pelican
barf, but with the non-avian species of pelican we're
discussing, I'm inclined to take your word for it, Alfred. :)
They clearly don't digest UFO evidence to which they have
access, so it wouldn't be surprising.


Ray Stanford

"You know my method.  It is founded upon the observance of trifles." --
Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery








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               Re: NASA-JPL May Have Cooked Their Own Goose! -

From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
Date: Fri,  5 Mar 2004 13:13:56 -0600
Fwd Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 18:36:35 -0500
Subject: Re: NASA-JPL May Have Cooked Their Own Goose! -


>From: Lan Fleming <lfleming6.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 12:43:00 -0600
>Subject: Re: NASA-JPL May Have Cooked Their Own Goose!

>(Sorry, I don't know how to do the tiny url thing.)

Very handy for ultra-long URLs:

http://tinyurl.com








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                         Re: The Illuminati - Boone

From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 14:20:32 EST
Fwd Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 18:40:10 -0500
Subject: Re: The Illuminati - Boone


=46rom the Merriam-Webster Dictionary:

Main Entry: il=B7lu=B7mi=B7na=B7ti
Pronunciation: i-"lu-m&-'na-tE
Function: noun plural
Etymology: Italian & New Latin; Italian, from New Latin,
from Latin, plural of illuminatus
Date: 1599
1 : capitalized : any of various groups claiming special

religious enlightenment
2 : persons who are or who claim to be unusually enlightened

-----

Okay, back to basics here and the definition of 'illuminati'.

If you notice we have two. The first is common the second calls
for further scrutiny.

"Persons who-are or who-claim to be unusually enlightened."

Well now. Guess we could fill the bleachers with folks fitting
these profiles.

Einstein, Tesla, Hubbard, Chang, Brown... The list goes on
doesn't it?

Same could be said of abductees. As a singular and a collective
they've come up with some suprisingly enlightened data. Makes me
wonder if the original illuminati were abductees! Would answer
alot of questions.

That's what I was talking about when I first posted this topic.
Why? Because digging through the research I've been involved
with it's as clear as a bell to me that we indeed have some
pretty bright folks and organizations out there that are or
claim to be several steps ahead of the norm.

How do they acquire these enlightened abilities? Are they
genetic or learned? Breeding or reading?

There are some incredibly smart people. Some with IQs in the
200+ range. Yet that doesn't mean they're emotionally stable nor
anywhere near sane nor compassionate.

Either way, it's becoming clear to me that these people and
their groups pass on this advantage in their respective ways
that the common fellow is unaware.

Tantalizing to look at those private schools that churn out
those sharp cookies who quickly get jobs in the corporate sector
yet couldn't tell a salad fork from soup spoon.

We need to take a look at intelligence and it's applications.
It's true origins and the technologies involved in developing,
nurturing and unfortunately, controlling.

Oh I assure you, there are people out here with dynamic
intellects. Luckily history has spawned some who couple those
smarts with insight, foresight and compassion and understanding.
Those are the ladies and gentlemen whom history makes true
heroes of.

Survival strategies and solutions, covert or overt. They're
here.

There is no critter in the woods that can't be tracked. Unless
it doesn't need to go into the woods in the first place.








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                        Re: The Illuminati - Maccabee

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 15:28:02 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 18:48:47 -0500
Subject: Re: The Illuminati - Maccabee


>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 17:43:44 -0500
>Subject: Re: The Illuminati

>>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 08:12:28 -0800
>>Subject: Re: The Illuminati

<snip>

>I hope you will acknowledge "Occam's Razor" is not a scientific
>principle but a philosophical one.

>In many situations, natural and experimental, the simplest
>seeming explanation commensurate with the facts is not always
t>he correct one. Of course, it often is, but "Occam's Razor" is
>not always a panacea for getting to the truth of a situation.

>It is, however, all too often a pelican's song as the bird sits
>on a pier post, overlooking over an ocean of uncomprehended UFO
>reality, just crapping all over the place.

<LOL>

Perhaps what Arnold saw zooming by were actually droppings from
super-high-speed pelicans.








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   Mar > Mar 5

                        Re: UFOs & Fairies? - Aubeck

From: Chris Aubeck <caubeck.nul>
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 21:30:35 +0000 (GMT)
Fwd Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 18:58:11 -0500
Subject: Re: UFOs & Fairies? - Aubeck


>From: Tom Benson <sparkle.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 12:06:05 -0500
>Subject: Re: UFOs & Fairies? - Benson

>>From: David Rudiak <DRudiak.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 19:26:23 -0800
>>Subject: Re: UFOs & Fairies?

>>UFOs & Fairies? (& Little Green Men)

>>>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark.nul>
>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 13:36:05 -0600
>>>Subject: Re: UFOs & Fairies? - Clark

<snip>

>>A side-bar on the possible connections between
>>fairies and aliens concerns the the origins of the
>>term "Little Green Men."
>>We delved into this back in December, 2001, two of
>>my posts on possible comic book origins below:

<snip>

Hi Tom, David, List,

The question of how the term "little green man" entered ufology
is a reoccurring one. I carried out some research into this
myself, finding the expression "little green men" used as far
back as the early 19th century, and the presence of little green
Martians in the 1890s.

I realised was that there have been four main categories of
usage:

1) In very old legends and folklore

Example:

I recommend anyone to do a Google search, which produces
hundreds of hits.

2) In later fairytales and childrens's literature

Example:

A typical instance can be found in the Fort Wayne Journal
Gazette (Fort Wayne, Indiana), published on August 27th, 1911:

The Children's Corner

When Boo the Cow Woke the Rain Man
by Murrat Fisher

[long story, here are some lines from it:]

"Immediately the door opened sharply outward, and next instant
they were both on their backs in the swirling water. Through the
open door they could see a long and narrow passage and through
this passage a small green man was hurrying toward them and he
looked very worried and upset."

"Rupert the Cat glared with his eyes. The little green man
didn't look at all frightening."

3) As an expression of sarcasm (applying to aliens, fairies or
imaginary beings in general, especially when referring to
hallucinations)

Example:

>From the Oshkosh Northwestern (Oshkosh, Wisconsin)
Wednesday, November 4th, 1936:

My New York
by James Aswell

[in a light-hearted discussion of doctors]

"That's the way doctors talk. A man can pull down a couple of
little shades in his head and shut out thought, even the
automatic, surface cerebrations of a New York chatterist. That's
what doctors tell you; and they are the same doctors who, very
likely, will go to pieces suddenly at 50 because they hear bells
ringing and are being followed about by a little green man with
big ears."


4) In ufology, usually in order to mock believers, witnesses or
the subject of ufology itself.

Example:

>From the Newport Daily News (Newport, Rhode Island),
December 7th, 1953 (p.10):

The Saucers Again

Everyone "knows" that there is nothing to the flying saucer
thing, but, just in case, the Air Force is taking steps. It has
distributed to some 75 bases a double-barreled camera it hopes
may solve the flying saucer mystery.

When any Air Force man sights what seems to be a saucer, or
reasonable facsimile thereof, he has orders to point the camera
at the thing and snap. What, if anything, will result nobody
knows. Maybe a shot of a little green man from Mars leaning out
and grinning at the Air Force? Could be!

So here we go again, trying to prove "is they or ain't they?"
flying saucers. Maybe the Air Force, with its double-barreled
cameras, will
prove a point, or disprove one.

[End of quote]


The first reference to a short, green-skinned extraterrestrial
that I have seen is in the "Atlanta Constitution" (Georgia) of
October 8th 1899. Here we read a tale about the "Green Boy From
Hurrah," "Hurrah" being another planet.

Maybe the earliest use of the exact expression "little green
men" that I have found was published in "The Galaxy, An
Illustrated Magazine of Entertaining Reading." The edition is
dated "September 1st-December 15th 1866."

The text gives the impression that the term was already in
common usage then:

[From a tale called "Dies Irae," by Lily Nelson]

And then we got up and went to breakfast. While we sat there, a
vague something that had been hovering on the horizon all the
morning, rolled nearer and nearer over the placid ocean-floor
"Where has Spars disappeared?" said Seyd, suddenly pausing in
his coffee. "Have we altered the course so much, Padroncello?"

"By Jove!" said the Padron, and put duwn his cup. Palinurus, at
the wheel, gave one of his odd snorts, between disgust and
laughter, and we girls looked out in amaze.

"Do islands often skip round in this singular manner?" said Miss
Duck, indolently, helping herself to a jacketed potato. "Or is
it one of the fairy doings with which you so constantly assail
our ears?"

This last to me, and delivered with great scorn, for Miss Duck
prides herself on her practical good sense, and utterly refuses
to believe in little green men to be sought for under mossy
stones. A gnarled tree, for Miss Duck, encloses no lovely maiden
with oaken bodice..."

Finally, evidence that the term "little green man" was used in
early post-Arnold years, but not necessarily in reference to
aliens, comes in items such as the following, from the Waterloo
Daily
Courier (Waterloo, Iowa) of March 2nd, 1948 (p.4):

Strictly Personal

Harris Bids Farewell
fo Frightful Bogeyman

By SYDNEY J. HARRIS.

CAROLYN has a little green man, but he is a pleasant creature
who does nice things and plays with her when no real children
are around. She has never heard of the bogeyman.

The only real progress we have made in child education the last
50 years, it seems to me, is the abolition of the bogeyman and
other mythical monsters who used to frighten kids. Only the most
stupid and backward of parents do that nowadays.

It is just recently that we have become aware of the frightful
consequences such bogeyman scares can have for a child's
imaginative mind. Every people, from antiquity to the present
time, have threatened their offspring with some bogeyman or
another.

[leads on to a discussion of the bogeyman legend follows]

My personal conclusion is that the term "Little Green Men" was
in use long before 1947 to describe supernatural beings of
various kinds, and that the flying saucer age only redefined it
for a new generation.

Regards,

Chris Aubeck




=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Chris Aubeck
Idiomas SEIF
Carrera de S. Jeronimo, 17, 1=BA - A





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                   Re: Depressing But Instructive - Harney

From: John Harney <magonia.nul>
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 21:34:36 -0000
Fwd Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 22:10:38 -0500
Subject: Re: Depressing But Instructive - Harney


>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 11:14:03 +0000
>Subject: UFO History: Depressing But Instructive

>Newly added to my web site is a (prophetic) statement presented
>to the University of Colorado UFO Project scientists and staff
>as they embarked on what was touted to be an independent
>scientific study of UFOs. This occurred in November 1966,
>probably before many of you on this List were born, or out of
>swaddling clothes. (It even seems like a past-life experience to
>me!)

Dick,

You conclude your submission to the Colorado Project by saying "
. . . the lowest common denominator of what is necessary in UFO
investigations is a close study of the best unexplained cases in
isolation, at least temporarily, from the Total Phenomenon."

However, whenever attention is drawn on this List to intensive
investigations, or critical examination of the evidence in
unexplained cases, usually leading what are probably the correct
explanations, such postings are greeted with howls of rage from
believers in the ETH. Your suggested method is certainly applied
by a few ufologists, but is certainly not popular as it is
unlikely to tell most people what they want to hear.

>On the UFO Page of my web site you will also find other articles
>and essays by me on issues of science and UFOs and ideas of how
>to break the deadlock and make some progress. Study the past and
>learn from history. See:

>www.hallrichard.com

On your UFO Page you deal with the story of the alleged killing
of an ET at Fort Dix/McGuire AFB. The dead ET was said to have
been hauled off to Wright-Patterson AFB (where else?).

You consider this preposterous story to be authentic, despite
the fact that it has - unlike Trindade, as Jerry Clark kept
reminding us - _negative witnesses_. Yet you just sweep these
negative witnesses aside with the words: "The fact that several
of the officers involved have denied to other investigators
having any knowledge of the incident is not surprising at all
under the circumstances."

Perhaps it's not surprising because the incident never happened.
This appears to be the conclusion reached by the National
Institute of Discovery Science. I quote from the Discussion
section of their investigations of this case, which is available
at:

http://www.nidsci.org/news/mcguire/discussion.html

"The central thesis arising from this preliminary investigation
is that no corroboration was obtained for the reality of the
alleged incident at McGuire AFB on January 18, 1978. Until and
unless independent corroboration can be obtained, NIDS policy
does not permit conducting a full investigation into this
incident."

and

"NIDS is open to receiving further corroborative evidence that
supports the reality of the 1978 McGuire AFB incident, but based
on the principle of parsimony, the current hypothesis from this
preliminary investigation is that the case is a hoax."


John Harney








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                           Stanton Friedman's URL?

From: Aaron LeClair <force.nul>
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 16:40:04 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 22:14:30 -0500
Subject: Stanton Friedman's URL?


>From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 10:45:54 -0400
>Subject: Re: The Illuminati

<snip>

>Stan Friedman
>www.stantonfriedman.com

You finally going to have a shorter URL? I clicked on your link,
but get an error page. This url still works though:

http://www.v-j-enterprises.com/sfpage.html








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                      Re: Barry Chamish Site - Balaskas

From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul>
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 17:04:36 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
Fwd Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 22:16:40 -0500
Subject: Re: Barry Chamish Site - Balaskas


>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 16:17:21 +0000
>Subject: Re: Barry Chamish Site

>>From: Barry Chamish <chamish.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 16:01:45 -0800
>>Subject: Barry Chamish Site

>>Hi,

>>I now have my own site. Please have a look at:

>>http://www.barrychamish.com

>I did, and I must say it fits right in with much of the other
>wild-eyed, conspiratorial bushwah that is popping up with
>appalling frequency on this site.

>What's next? Hitler is alive in Antarctica and harboring flying
>saucers inside the hole in the pole? And the Evil Government
>(which isn't well-organized enough to do the bizarre things
>credited to it as if it were a monolithic entity) knows all
>about it.

>The Illuminati-World Banker-Jeiwsh cabalists are suppressing
>the truth because they are in private negotiations with the
>Inner Earth Empire to exchange human beings to aliens for flying
>saucer technology. Of course, Bob Lazar tried to break the
>secret... gag! *cough*


Hi Dick!

Are you really sure it was Barry Chamish's web site that you had
a look at?

As an investigative reporter Barry has done an excellent job in
documenting the assassination of Isreali Prime Minister Yitzhak
Rabin and sharing many overlooked, little known and covered up
facts with the public that prove this murder was the result of a
bigger conspiracy rather than the act of a lone gunman as some
still believe was the case for the assassination of U.S.
President John Kennedy.

A few years I met Barry in Toronto where I asked him about those
amazing UFO close encounters that were being reported in Israel,
many of which he investigated personally. At that time Barry
gave me many photocopies of hospital, government and other
official documents as well as transcripts of witness testimonies,
all written in Hebrew, because he thought I was Jewish and could
read all this and would share my thoughts with him.

If the stuff on Barry's web site does not interest you, that's
fine, but to rant on like some uninformed debunker is so
untypical of you, your e-mail surprised me. Were you implying
that Barry is not a credible source of information, including
about UFOs?


Nick Balaskas








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                     Re: New Phoenix Lights Book - Frola

From: Robert Frola <ufologist.nul>
Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 09:01:06 +1100
Fwd Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 22:18:16 -0500
Subject: Re: New Phoenix Lights Book - Frola


>From: Bill Stockstill <size14d.nul>
>To:  ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 18:06:13 -0500
>Subject: Re: New Phoenix Lights Book

>I interviewed Pheonix Councilwoman Frances Barwood in November
>of 1997 on MSN's UFO Forum and if anyone is interested I can
>clean up the log and post it here this weekend. Also, I have the
>logs of several interviews I did while with MSN (late 90s)
>including, Greg Long, Kal Korff, Clifford Stone, Dan Sherman,
>Barry Greenwood, Jim Hickman, etc. if anyone is interested I
>could clean them up and post them here.

I would be interested in those interviews. If no one else is
interested just e-mail the interviews to me.


Cheers

Robert Frola








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                     CI: "Bunny" Probably Lander Debris

From: Mac Tonnies <macbot.nul>
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 16:59:37 -0800 (PST)
Fwd Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 22:52:00 -0500
Subject: CI: "Bunny" Probably Lander Debris


Cydonian Imperative
3-5-04

JPL: "Bunny" Probably Lander Debris

See: http://www.mactonnies.com/cydonia.html

[image]

In this animation, one of the "ears" can be seen swaying in the
Martian breeze. Evidently the object popularly known as the
"bunny" is extremely lightweight - explaining its
"disappearance."

Sheddings from Opportunity Lead Rover Fans on a "Bunny" Chase

http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/spotlight/opportunity/b19_20040304.html

"Without seeing the 'bunny ears' object up close with our own
eyes, it's difficult to provide a positive identification.
However, scientists and engineers are quick to deflate the myth
that it is anything inexplicable."

-end-








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                              Mercury Or Venus?

From: Brendon Andrews <Star1birth.nul>
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 20:40:54 EST
Fwd Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 22:54:58 -0500
Subject: Mercury Or Venus?


Hello,

Any ufologists want to take a peak at an aerial celestrial
object thought to be Mercury or Venus but just too hard to
believe?

Let me know where to send it.


Thanks

Brendon Andrews








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                     Re: 1966-67 UFO Sighting Wave Study

From: Isaac Koi <isaackoi2.nul>
Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 01:55:48 -0000
Fwd Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 23:02:21 -0500
Subject: Re: 1966-67 UFO Sighting Wave Study


>From: Nick Pope <nick.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 18:45:16 -0000
>Subject: Re: 1966-67 UFO Sighting Wave Study

>>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 23:29:23 +0000
>>Subject: Re: 1966-67 UFO Sighting Wave Study

>>>From: Nick Pope <nick.nul>
>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 21:01:09 -0000
>>>Subject: Re: 1966-67 UFO Sighting Wave Study

><snip>

>>>In case you've not come across them before, you might be
>>>interested in the following figures, which show the number of
>>>UFO sighting reports submitted to the UK Ministry of Defence:

>>>1960 - 31
>>>1961 - 71
>>>1962 - 46
>>>1963 - 51
>>>1964 - 74
>>>1965 - 56
>>>1966 - 95
>>>1967 - 362
>>>1968 - 280
>>>1969 - 228
>>>1970 - 181

>>>As you can see, 1967 was a significant year for ufology in the
>>>UK too.

<snip>

>... all
>figures are the official MOD ones, and can be referenced as
>such.

Greetings Dick, Nick, List

In relation to references for the figures supplied by Nick, it
may be helpful to note the following extracts from Hansard (the
official record of questions in the UK's Parliament). These
extracts may also be of interest as they give an outline of the
explanations advanced by the Ministry of Defence for the
relevant sightings.

The figures for 1966-1967 and surrounding years have been given
in reply to various Parliamentary questions, including one on 22
January 1968 (Hansard, House of Commons, Volume 757, Column 40)
and another on 16 October 1973 (Hansard, House of Commons,
Volume 861, Written Answers column 4). The relevant answers
confirm the figures given by Nick and also give the numbers for
1959 (22), 1971 (379) and 1972 (201). The answers also purport
to provide breakdowns of the explanations of the sightings.
These breakdowns were, according to one internal Ministry of
Defence memo, based on "somewhat haphazard allocation" of UFO
reports to various categories. (The relevant memo is at Public
Record Office File Reference AIR 2/19086 document E21, undated
but written in the context of correspondence during the summer
of 1975).

For ease of reference, the text of the 2 particularly relevant
parliamentary questions is set out below. (The text of these
parliamentary questions, and others that may be of interest
(because they relate to 1966-1967 and/or numbers of sightings
for other years), are included in the preliminary draft of a
Hansard Working Document available online at:

http://www.smartgroups.com/vault/ufoinquiry/Hansard/ufo_hansard_extracts.doc

22 January 1968 - House of Commons Volume 757 column 40
 "Unidentified Flying Objects
Mr Edward M Taylor asked the Secretary of State for Defence how
many reports of unidentified flying objects were received in
1967; how many of these reports were subsequently shown to have
a natural explanation; and if he will make a statement.

Mr Merlyn Rees: The total number of reports received in 1967
reflects a wave of public interest in UFOs, reaching a peak
towards the end of the year. The analysis of the reports
published below shows that, as in previous years, the vast
majority were found to have mundane explanations ; the remainder
of the reports contained insufficient investigation but nothing
to suggest that they related to incidents materially different
in kind from those that were explained.

UFO STATISTICS - 1st JANUARY, 1959 TO 31st DECEMBER, 1967 [Table
with columns entitled, from left to right, "year", "satellites",
"balloons", "celestial objects", "Meteorological and natural
phenomena", "aircraft", "miscellaneous", "unexplained"
"insufficient information", "under investigation", "total". The
contents of each row, from left to right are as follows:

1959     1   3  1   7   4  2   4  -  22
1960     -   8  2   7  10  1   3  -  31
1961    16  11  8  20   9  5   2  -  71
1962    11   6  5   8   9  4   3  -  46
1963    18   6  4   4  10  7   2  -  51
1964    43   3  6   -  10  7   5  -  74
1965    27   3  3   2   7  -  14  -  56
1966    38  10  5   5  17  15  5  -  95

Total  154  50  34  53  76  41  38  -  446

1967    57  42  24  19  149  18  46  7  362

Total  211  92  58  72  225  59  84  7  808]

Note : Miscellaneous reports include, for example, hoaxes and the
reflection of light on clouds"

16 October 1973 - House of Commons Volume 861 written answers
column 4 "Unidentified Flying Objects Mr Bishop asked the
Minister of State for Defence how many reports of unidentified
flying objects were received for each year since 1967,
categorised into numbers of satellites, debris, balloons,
celestial objects, meteorological and natural phenomena, &c ;
how many were shown to have a natural explanation ; what action
his department takes to monitor UFOs ; and if he will make a
statement.

Mr Kershaw: All reports of sightings of unidentified flying
objects received from Service and civilian sources alike are
studied for any possible air defence implications. Reports
received in the period 1967 to 1972 are considered to have
originated in the followings ways:

[Table with columns entitled, from left to right, untitled,
"total", "satellites", "balloons", "celestial objects",
"Meteorological and natural phenomena", "aircraft",
"miscellaneous".

The contents of each row, from left to right are as follows:

1967  362   57   42  26  19   150  22
1968  280   65   10  36   3   114  30
1969  228   37    9  27  19   101  17
1970  181    9    8  31  16    97   5
1971  379   28   11  33  62   160  27
1972  201    7   28  17   2   128   5


In the remaining cases insufficient information was provided for
the likely cause to be ascertained. I do not think there is any
aspect of this subject which merits a statement at present."


I hope this is of assistance.

Kind Regards,

Isaac Koi








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                                Good Hunting

From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 21:07:15 EST
Fwd Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 23:05:10 -0500
Subject: Good Hunting


I had quite the chuckle while reading more UFO research data.

It's amazing what people will endure to find an answer!

Many of you have braved cold, heat, deadly seas, hostiles,
financial crisis, threats and violence in this constant search
and discovery. I myself recall many a night out in the woods
not caring if bears were about while digging up samples or
videotaping witnesses, dodging the police etc.

Even in Roswell where giant spiders and lightning bolts rained
down.

What the heck was I doing in these dangerous situations I had
to ask myself. I must be nuts to be doing this.

Then I was watching an episode of "Star Trek: Deep Space Nine"
and I asked myself, why were these characters leaping into
danger. Marching full into the maw of the monster? What in the
name of Phineas J. Whoopie was wrong with these people?

Then I had to take a look at myself and realized why:

We're hunters.

We don't have enough monsters to hunt and no matter how much
technology we have, we'll leave our cushy homes and tv sets and
recliner chairs to leap pell mell into the nearest danger to
satisfy our curiosity or dog down an elusive quarry.

We_can't_resist_a_mystery! We can't! It's our nature!

In all the animal kingdom, outside of the mosquito we're the
best hunters. We don't care where it is, how many claws it has,
how deep it can swim, we will go after it. Not because we need
it, but because we need 'to'. Underwater, on land, in the skies
and now in space and worlds beyond. We'll track it down til it
drops. Perhaps we should find the Latin term for 'persistant'
and change our scientific name to something like "Homo Sapiens
Persistansis" or something ( pardon to my pals at Warner Bros
Animation and their 'Road Runner' toons ).

The UFOlogists I've met and read about just won't stop! I'm so
amazed that come heck or highwater there are those that just
won't let up. I'm very proud of that and admiring no end.

It's good to see that 'hunter's spirit' is still alive and being
used for the forces of good instead of evil.

Perhaps that's our greatest advantage. That no matter what the
opposition says or does to you, they can't beat you because
you're doing what the sum of all humanity's experiences
dictates:

Hunt.

Whatever the prey is, it can run, but it'll only eventually end
up in a lab.


Good hunting.

Greg







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                       Re: Barry Chamish Site - Sandow

From: Greg Sandow <greg.nul>
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 22:32:28 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 23:08:23 -0500
Subject: Re: Barry Chamish Site - Sandow


>From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 17:04:36 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
>Subject: Re: Barry Chamish Site

>Are you really sure it was Barry Chamish's web site that you
>had a look at?

>As an investigative reporter Barry has done an excellent job
>in documenting the assassination of Isreali Prime Minister
>Yitzhak Rabin and sharing many overlooked, little known and
>covered up facts with the public that prove this murder was
>the result of a bigger conspiracy rather than the act of a
>lone gunman as some still believe was the case for the
>assassination of U.S. President John Kennedy.

<snip>

>If the stuff on Barry's web site does not interest you,
>that's fine, but to rant on like some uninformed debunker is
>so untypical of you, your e-mail surprised me. Were you
>implying that Barry is not a credible source of information,
>including about UFOs?

Here's what I found right at the top of the Barry Chamish site:

"...And what did we recently discover; why Kerry is Jewish on
his father's side. Somehow, he forgot the fact that his
grandparents were prominent Jewish business people in Prague and
that his father is 100% Jewish. Ask yourself, do you know anyone
who doesn't know his father's religious background?

As rare as it must be, that affliction runs rampant in CFR
circles. Former CFR Secretary-of-State Madeleine Albright also
forgot that both her parents were Jews, even though she was
raised in the Jewish home of her relatives in London.

If you don't feel like voting Kerry, there is Wesley Clark
waiting in the wings. Uncannily, he is also a CFR member who
only discovered his father was Jewish while he was burning
Bosnia to ashes.

Now how come, no matter which Democrat you choose, you get a CFR
half-Jew who forgot all about it? The answer is found in the
Sabbatean (also Shabbataian and similar spellings) policy of
having their Jewish apostate followers converting and hiding
their roots and beliefs."

This sounds like raving madness to me. CFR, for those who
haven't followed conspiracy thinking, is the Council on Foreign
Relations, an organization some people think is secretly
plotting the New World Order.

Note all the completely wrong or at best highly debatable or
exaggerated statements, about things just about everyone in
America knows something about. Wesley Clark is waiting in the
wings if you don't want to vote for Kerry? Not true; Clark
dropped out of the race long ago. Wesley Clark burned Bosnia to
ashes? Not exactly everyone's interpretation, but here stated as
irrefutable fact. "No matter which Democrat you choose, you get
a CFR half-Jew..."? Is Al Sharpton on the Council on Foreign
Relations? Is Dick Gebhardt or Howard Dean Jewish? If this is
how Chamish writes about simple things, things that have been in
the American press every day (and which he could find out about
even in Israel), then I wouldn't trust him to tell me that the
sky is blue.

And that's before we get to the really tangled stuff about the
CFR and the Shabbateans.


Greg Sandow








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               Re: CI: "Bunny" Probably Lander Debris - Shell

From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 23:41:20 -0800
Fwd Date: Sat, 06 Mar 2004 09:55:32 -0500
Subject: Re: CI: "Bunny" Probably Lander Debris - Shell


>From: Mac Tonnies <macbot.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 16:59:37 -0800 (PST)
>Subject: CI: "Bunny" Probably Lander Debris

>Cydonian Imperative
>3-5-04

>JPL: "Bunny" Probably Lander Debris

>See: http://www.mactonnies.com/cydonia.html

>[image]

>In this animation, one of the "ears" can be seen swaying in the
>Martian breeze. Evidently the object popularly known as the
>"bunny" is extremely lightweight - explaining its
>"disappearance."

>Sheddings from Opportunity Lead Rover Fans on a "Bunny" Chase

>http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/spotlight/opportunity/b19_20040304.html

>"Without seeing the 'bunny ears' object up close with our own
>eyes, it's difficult to provide a positive identification.
>However, scientists and engineers are quick to deflate the myth
>that it is anything inexplicable."

I guess it could have been lander debris. Although when they ran
over it with the rover, it pretty much flattened out into a
white, chalky smear. Didn't look a whole lot like fabric once
they squished it. Oh, well.








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                   Re: New Phoenix Lights Book - Crockett

From: Josh Crockett <thirdeyeching.nul>
Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 01:14:52 EST
Fwd Date: Sat, 06 Mar 2004 09:57:19 -0500
Subject: Re: New Phoenix Lights Book - Crockett


>From: Robert Frola <ufologist.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 09:01:06 +1100
>Subject: Re: New Phoenix Lights Book

>>From: Bill Stockstill <size14d.nul>
>>To:  ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 18:06:13 -0500
>>Subject: Re: New Phoenix Lights Book

>>I interviewed Pheonix Councilwoman Frances Barwood in November
>>of 1997 on MSN's UFO Forum and if anyone is interested I can
>>clean up the log and post it here this weekend. Also, I have the
>>logs of several interviews I did while with MSN (late 90s)
>>including, Greg Long, Kal Korff, Clifford Stone, Dan Sherman,
>>Barry Greenwood, Jim Hickman, etc. if anyone is interested I
>>could clean them up and post them here.

>I would be interested in those interviews. If no one else is
>interested just e-mail the interviews to me.

I'd be interested in seeing them as well.

Thanks,

Josh Crockett







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                             Ramey AFB Sighting?

From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser.nul>
Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 00:39:28 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 06 Mar 2004 09:58:10 -0500
Subject: Ramey AFB Sighting?


Hello, List,

Is anyone aware of a sighting at Ramey AFB in Puerto Rico in the
early sixties?

Any documentation or references appreciated.

==JJS==








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                          Re: Good Hunting - Jones

From: Sean Jones <tedric.nul>
Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 08:54:56 +0000
Fwd Date: Sat, 06 Mar 2004 09:59:23 -0500
Subject: Re: Good Hunting - Jones


>From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 21:07:15 EST
>Subject: Good Hunting

Greg,

Thanks for an interesting read, I only have one comment.

>Whatever the prey is, it can run, but it'll only eventually end
>up in a lab.

Or in the cooking pot <g>

>Good hunting.

>Greg

Warmest

Sean
--

   In an infinite universe, infinitely anything is possible.
                        Sean Jones
              http://www.tedric.demon.co.uk/








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                  Re: New Phoenix Lights Book - Stockstill

From: Bill Stockstill <size14d.nul>
Date: Sat, 06 Mar 2004 04:24:18 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 06 Mar 2004 10:02:12 -0500
Subject: Re: New Phoenix Lights Book - Stockstill


>From: Robert Frola <ufologist.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 09:01:06 +1100
>Subject: Re: New Phoenix Lights Book

>>From: Bill Stockstill <size14d.nul>
>>To:  ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 18:06:13 -0500
>>Subject: Re: New Phoenix Lights Book

>>I interviewed Pheonix Councilwoman Frances Barwood in November
>>of 1997 on MSN's UFO Forum and if anyone is interested I can
>>clean up the log and post it here this weekend. Also, I have the
>>logs of several interviews I did while with MSN (late 90s)
>>including, Greg Long, Kal Korff, Clifford Stone, Dan Sherman,
>>Barry Greenwood, Jim Hickman, etc. if anyone is interested I
>>could clean them up and post them here.

>I would be interested in those interviews. If no one else is
>interested just e-mail the interviews to me.


I'll clean them up and start posting them here in my spare time.

Bill









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                      Re: Barry Chamish Site - Williams

From: Walt Williams <eye_of_horus.nul>
Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 01:50:36 +0000
Fwd Date: Sat, 06 Mar 2004 10:05:10 -0500
Subject: Re: Barry Chamish Site - Williams


>From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 17:04:36 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
>Subject: Re: Barry Chamish Site

>>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 16:17:21 +0000
>>Subject: Re: Barry Chamish Site

>>>From: Barry Chamish <chamish.nul>
>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 16:01:45 -0800
>>>Subject: Barry Chamish Site

>>>I now have my own site. Please have a look at:

>>>http://www.barrychamish.com

>>I did, and I must say it fits right in with much of the other
>>wild-eyed, conspiratorial bushwah that is popping up with
>>appalling frequency on this site.

<snip>

>Are you really sure it was Barry Chamish's web site that you had
>a look at?

>As an investigative reporter Barry has done an excellent job in
>documenting the assassination of Isreali Prime Minister Yitzhak
>Rabin and sharing many overlooked, little known and covered up
>facts with the public that prove this murder was the result of a
>bigger conspiracy rather than the act of a lone gunman as some
>still believe was the case for the assassination of U.S.
>President John Kennedy.

<snip>

>If the stuff on Barry's web site does not interest you, that's
>fine, but to rant on like some uninformed debunker is so
>untypical of you, your e-mail surprised me. Were you implying
>that Barry is not a credible source of information, including
>about UFOs?


All the famous cases are used as 'targets' by remote viewers
'in-training'. Ask credible RV'rs about Kennedy and Rabin, if
you would care to know the truth about these events. Apparently
the ONLY time not available for review limited by system is
beyond 2012.




Best Wishes,

Walt Williams
Founder SETV search model

Director
Search for ExtraTerrestrial Visitation (SETV)
Northridge California, 91367, USA
http://www.setv.org

walt_williams.nul
===================================








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                           UK UFO Magazine Closes

From: Philip Mantle <philipmantle.nul>
Date: Sat, 06 Mar 2004 11:32:20 +0000
Fwd Date: Sat, 06 Mar 2004 10:09:14 -0500
Subject: UK UFO Magazine Closes


Dear colleagues,

I am sad to announce the closure of the UK based publication UFO
MAGAZINE owned by Quest Publications International Ltd. The
closure of the magazine has been the sole decision of the
company owner Mrs Christine Birdsall and the March 2004 issue is
the last magazine to be published.

Since the sudden death of the magazine's founding editor Graham
Birdsall in September 2003 I have been assisting UFO MAGAZINE'S
editor Russel Callaghan on a voluntary basis. Russel and the
rest of the staff at UFO MAGAZINE have worked extremely hard to
keep the magazine afloat and all are extremely surprised and
upset by the recent decisions made concerning the publication of
the magazine by Christine Birdsall.

Many of you have helped with articles and news items and simply
moral support since Graham's death and I would like to take this
opportunity to thank you all for your kind assistance.

Any enquiries concerning any aspect of UFO MAGAZINE should be
put to Christine Birdsall and not myself or the staff of UFO
MAGAZINE.

It's a sad day today and I'm only sorry for Graham Birdsall that
this has happened.

Please feel free to forward this message on to other interested
parties.


Yours sincerely,

Philip Mantle.













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                   Re: Identfy Friend Or Foe? - Dickenson

From: Ray Dickenson <editor.nul>
Date: Sat, 06 Mar 2004 13:36:47 +0000
Fwd Date: Sat, 06 Mar 2004 10:13:48 -0500
Subject: Re: Identfy Friend Or Foe? - Dickenson


>From: Aaron LeClair <force.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 19:15:02 -0500
>Subject: Re: Identfy Friend Or Foe?

>>A proportion of UFO/abduction experiences are well attested as
>>non-material, metamorphic, shape-changing. They've been
>>covered in Vallee's and others' studies but no further
>>conclusions have been thought possible, except maybe by some
>>in recent "UFOs and Fairies" posts.

>One theory has to do with Ball lightning hitting people in the
>head and then they have seizures, black out, then get regressed
>then talk about grey guys due to the hypnotherapist suggestion
>etc... Funny, but it is another theory in regards to say the
>accounts where a basket ball size light is near an abductee,
>then they get parralyzed, soon after see little grey guys morph
>out of the ball of light. Example, the Debbie Jordan Intruders
>Case by Budd Hopkins.

Hello Aaron,

The "temporal seizure explanation" is, like "sleep paralysis", a
rather desperate attempt to give mole-hills as reason for
mountains.

Susan Blackmore, 'researcher' now well rewarded by establishment
and media for being in the skeptibunker - also went for it,
citing Michael Persinger's electromagnetic stimulation of
temporal lobes, by which he 'explains' all OBEs, NDEs and
UFO/abduction experiences.

But when she tried it she could only report crude "physical"
sensations, and for differently placed stimuli, crude "emotional"
sensations - all of which can already be reproduced by physically
stimulating an exposed brain with a prod, or with small electric
shocks. There's no structure to the sensations produced, no theme
or narrative behind them.

Sadly most "mainstream science" is not science at all, just
career hype which, of course _must_ serve the establishments'
agendas - or they don't get tenure and money. This has always
been true - see Galileo (and Bruno).

http://www.perceptions.couk.com/blinded.html

A current example is the "science" behind the Mars cover-up-much
longer than most realize. For decades we've been told that Mars
was "too small to retain water or useful atmosphere and too cold
for life". This was a long-term, carefully planned media
propaganda campaign - not "science".

That "sterile, arid, frozen" scenario was accepted by the
international safety committee as a justification for _not_
sterilizing the Mars probes. NASA/JPL "scientists" promised the
committee that contamination risks were - for the very first
time - of "no consequence" - search for phrase at

http://www7.nationalacademies.org/ssb/bcmarsch5.html

[Since "Perceptions" drew attention, URL keeps changing - to
hide the document? Don't be surprised if it's moved again]

So good Listers rubbing their hands at aroma (see current
NASA/JPL posts) of cooking goose should try to remember - "Truth
will first be ridiculed, then violently opposed, and finally
accepted as self-evident" A Schopenhauer 1788-1860.

They'll simply re-write history - it's worked on every other
issue, "scientific" or not. And the mainstream media are only too
ready to lie for the establishment, they're part of it.

Sorry to spoil the party.

Cheers

Ray D

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Perceptions" http://www.perceptions.couk.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~








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                 Re: 1966-67 UFO Sighting Wave Study - Pope

From: Nick Pope <nick.nul>
Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 13:46:50 -0000
Fwd Date: Sat, 06 Mar 2004 10:15:53 -0500
Subject: Re: 1966-67 UFO Sighting Wave Study - Pope


>From: Isaac Koi <isaackoi2.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 01:55:48 -0000
>Subject: Re: 1966-67 UFO Sighting Wave Study

>>From: Nick Pope <nick.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 18:45:16 -0000
>>Subject: Re: 1966-67 UFO Sighting Wave Study

<snip>

>>... all figures are the official MOD ones, and can be
>>referenced as such.

>Greetings Dick, Nick, List

>In relation to references for the figures supplied by Nick, it
>may be helpful to note the following extracts from Hansard (the
>official record of questions in the UK's Parliament). These
>extracts may also be of interest as they give an outline of the
>explanations advanced by the Ministry of Defence for the
>relevant sightings.

<snip>

>For ease of reference, the text of the 2 particularly relevant
>parliamentary questions is set out below. (The text of these
>parliamentary questions, and others that may be of interest
>(because they relate to 1966-1967 and/or numbers of sightings
>for other years), are included in the preliminary draft of a
>Hansard Working Document available online at:

>http://www.smartgroups.com/vault/ufoinquiry/Hansard/ufo_hansard_extracts.doc

<snip>

>In the remaining cases insufficient information was provided for
>the likely cause to be ascertained. I do not think there is any
>aspect of this subject which merits a statement at present."


Isaac,

Thanks for posting this. When I was working on the MOD's UFO
project I looked through the old files and would certainly agree
with the admission that you quote above, where one of my
predecessors stated that the categorisation of sightings had
been carried out on the basis of a "somewhat haphazard
allocation".

When carrying out investigations, my predecessors and I knew
that we were often making subjective judgements about
categorisation. We attributed explanations on the basis of what
we considered the most likely cause, but many investigations
were inconclusive and we were often unable to be sure what had
been seen.

What everybody wanted to know was how many sightings were
unexplained. But at the heart of that question was the
fundamental difficulty over when to use the word "unexplained"
and when to use the phrase "insufficient data". The sceptical
faction in the MOD never wanted to categorise any sightings as
"unexplained". Their view was that had additional information
been available, it would have enabled desk officers to explain
any and every UFO sighting in conventional terms.

The producers of the recent BBC2 Timewatch documentary on UFOs
asked me about this and requested that I send them copies of
official documents where this issue had been addressed. The
material below is adapted from my initial email response to
Timewatch associate producer Lisa Charles.

In strictness, both the Flying Saucer Working Party's final
report and the Air Ministry's 9 August 1952 response to Winston
Churchill's question about flying saucers stated that all UFO
sightings had conventional explanations.

On 15 July 1964 a Hansard extract records an MOD statement that
90% of sightings had a "perfectly rational explanation" while
10% of cases involved information "insufficient to support an
adequate inquiry".

On 24 June 1965 the MOD responded to a request for information
from the USAF and told them that 90% of cases investigated could
be explained. The remaining 10% were categorised as
"insufficient data".

The USAF's Project Blue Book figures for 1947 - 1965 (inclusive)
showed that 646 cases out of 10,047 (i.e. approx 6.4%) were
categorised as "unidentified". Blue Book had a separate category
for "insufficient data", which averaged out in the years 1953 -
 1964 (inclusive) at approximately 18.3%.

Based on my own official research and investigations, and my
analysis of previous MOD files, I would agree that 5% of
sightings could legitimately be categorised as "unexplained".


Best wishes,

Nick Pope








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   Mar > Mar 6

                        Re: Barry Chamish Site - Hall

From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
Date: Sat, 06 Mar 2004 14:09:08 +0000
Fwd Date: Sat, 06 Mar 2004 10:18:31 -0500
Subject: Re: Barry Chamish Site - Hall


>From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 17:04:36 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
>Subject: Re: Barry Chamish Site

>>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 16:17:21 +0000
>>Subject: Re: Barry Chamish Site

>>>From: Barry Chamish <chamish.nul>
>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 16:01:45 -0800
>>>Subject: Barry Chamish Site

>>>Hi,

>>>I now have my own site. Please have a look at:

>>>http://www.barrychamish.com

>>I did, and I must say it fits right in with much of the other
>>wild-eyed, conspiratorial bushwah that is popping up with
>>appalling frequency on this site.

<snip>

>Are you really sure it was Barry Chamish's web site that you had
>a look at?

>As an investigative reporter Barry has done an excellent job in
>documenting the assassination of Isreali Prime Minister Yitzhak
>Rabin and sharing many overlooked, little known and covered up
>facts with the public that prove this murder was the result of a
>bigger conspiracy rather than the act of a lone gunman as some
>still believe was the case for the assassination of U.S.
>President John Kennedy.

<snip>

Nick,

It is possible that I misinterpreted what I saw on his site, but
I saw what appeared to be word choices, language, insinuations
all geared to international conspiratorial thinking.

It may be that his English is not very good, I don't know, but
it came across to me as fuzzy-minded and, like so much of this
sort of alleged thinking, adding 2 plus 2 and getting 5. I have
no patience for those people.

If I am mistaken and he is a rational human being, then I will
gladly apologize.

 - Dick










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   Mar > Mar 6

                   Re: Depressing But Instructive - Clark

From: Jerome Clark <jkclark.nul>
Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 08:25:07 -0600
Fwd Date: Sat, 06 Mar 2004 10:19:32 -0500
Subject: Re: Depressing But Instructive - Clark


>From: John Harney <magonia.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 21:34:36 -0000
>Subject: Re: Depressing But Instructive

>>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 11:14:03 +0000
>>Subject: UFO History: Depressing But Instructive

>On your UFO Page you deal with the story of the alleged killing
>of an ET at Fort Dix/McGuire AFB. The dead ET was said to have
>been hauled off to Wright-Patterson AFB (where else?).

>You consider this preposterous story to be authentic, despite
>the fact that it has - unlike Trindade, as Jerry Clark kept
>reminding us - _negative witnesses_. Yet you just sweep these
>negative witnesses aside with the words: "The fact that several
>of the officers involved have denied to other investigators
>having any knowledge of the incident is not surprising at all
>under the circumstances."

It is gratifying indeed to see that John Harney has finally
admitted the importance of negative witnesses. Late, if nothing
else, is better than never.


Jerry Clark








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   Mar > Mar 7

                  Re: Depressing But Instructive - Golubic

From: Victor Golubic <Peetkin.nul>
Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 13:06:39 EST
Fwd Date: Sun, 07 Mar 2004 10:38:12 -0500
Subject: Re: Depressing But Instructive - Golubic


>From: John Harney <magonia.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 21:34:36 -0000
>Subject: Re: Depressing But Instructive

>>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 11:14:03 +0000
>>Subject: UFO History: Depressing But Instructive

<snip>

>You consider this preposterous story to be authentic, despite
>the fact that it has - unlike Trindade, as Jerry Clark kept
>reminding us - _negative witnesses_. Yet you just sweep these
>negative witnesses aside with the words: "The fact that several
>of the officers involved have denied to other investigators
>having any knowledge of the incident is not surprising at all
>under the circumstances."


I've been suggesting for years that a Uniform International UFO
Reporting Standard be adopted (promulgated). Items that should,
have to, (must?) be included: (let's discuss)

1) Publish all the Q/A's sessions of the witnesses
(Audio/Video). Having to include the Q/A will accomplish
(capture) many desirable goals (qualities):

a) It will force the interviewer to be more careful on
methodology.

b) It will remove the need for the reporter/investigator to
   criticize certain witness accounts because the witnesses
   will be speaking for themselves; We'll be able to evaluate
   their testimony for ourselves.

c) Cases will have/gain more credibility: We'll be putting the
  witnesses on center stage, where they rightfully should be
  over and over again.

d) There won't be continuous doubts about what a witness did
  or didn't say on such and such a date.

e) Any unanswered questions will become apparent.

f) Debunkers and Believers will have much less wiggle room -
   cases having true and reliable signals will emerge.

2) All the evidence needs to be presented, both positive and
negative: Allow the reader the ability to draw their own
separate conclusions in addition to (reporter/investigator) your
own ... to include: (data should be "visually" presented in some
uniform time line or flow)

a) Movement Vs Time diagrams (Map the "projected" movement on
  a plastic hemisphere and include appropriate time markings).

b) Movement Vs Light/Sound characteristics diagram (map to the
   same)

c) Triangulation calculations: size, distance, speed/velocity
   determination from which we may be able to extract
   acceleration determinations, etc.

d) Many more possibilities will become apparent, recognized, and
   understood, and eventually demanded or looked for...previuosly
   posted.

3) Investigator's Conclusions: The investigator weighs in on the
  facts and presents his views.

4) Suggested areas for future analysis: Because of constraints
on time and money, many cases are incomplete. By suggesting
which areas to pursue, other investigators will know where to
pick up on the case ... everyone's time will be used more
efficiently and without all the wrangling and criticism.

5) The names of the witness should be included in a separate
report to be published after three years. If we can't persuade
witnesses to come forward in a timely fashion, the cases begin
to lose their cohesiveness. We must begin to stress the
importance of having witness names early on; They are the meat
of any case. Video interviewing should be encouraged at all
times ... in absence of names, video is a real good substitute
during the interim periods.

Without the consistent application of believable, accessible,
and fairly reported accounts, not much more will be gained by
the UFO community at large. Let's move away from the extremes
and adopt the attitudes more prevalent in the rational middle
ground. Let's collectively enforce upfront accountability too.
Let's finally have a means to classify, on some form of
hierarchical structure, which of the cases are more deserving
than others and why!


This is by no means a complete accounting of this suggestion.
Many more details are necessarily absent in the interest of
brevity. Therefore, I encourage everyone to participate so that
we may all contribute to it's development and use. I believe all
investigators, readers, and reporters alike must begin to
formulate the necessary thinking process in the filtering and
meaning being assigned to both data and testimony!


Victor Golubic






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   Mar > Mar 7

                        Re: UFOs & Fairies? - Rudiak

From: David Rudiak <DRudiak.nul>
Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 10:32:01 -0800
Fwd Date: Sun, 07 Mar 2004 10:41:39 -0500
Subject: Re: UFOs & Fairies? - Rudiak


>From: Chris Aubeck <caubeck.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 21:30:35 +0000 (GMT)
>Subject: Re: UFOs & Fairies? - Aubeck


>>From: Tom Benson <sparkle.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 12:06:05 -0500
>>Subject: Re: UFOs & Fairies? - Benson

>>>From: David Rudiak <DRudiak.nul>
>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 19:26:23 -0800
>>>Subject: Re: UFOs & Fairies?

>>>UFOs & Fairies? (& Little Green Men)

>>>A side-bar on the possible connections between
>>>fairies and aliens concerns the the origins of the
>>>term "Little Green Men."
>>>We delved into this back in December, 2001, two of
>>>my posts on possible comic book origins below:

>The question of how the term "little green man" entered ufology
>is a reoccurring one. I carried out some research into this
>myself, finding the expression "little green men" used as far
>back as the early 19th century, and the presence of little green
>Martians in the 1890s.

>I realised was that there have been four main categories of
>usage:

>1) In very old legends and folklore

>2) In later fairytales and childrens's literature

>3) As an expression of sarcasm (applying to aliens, fairies or
>imaginary beings in general, especially when referring to
>hallucinations)

>4) In ufology, usually in order to mock believers, witnesses or
>the subject of ufology itself.

>My personal conclusion is that the term "Little Green Men" was
>in use long before 1947 to describe supernatural beings of
>various kinds, and that the flying saucer age only redefined it
>for a new generation.


Chris,

Super post! I think you are dead on that "Little Green Men" was
probably in the vernacular for a very long time, first being
applied to creatures like fairies, and then naturally attaching
itself to aliens. It was certainly deeply inbedded as a
sarcastic anti-UFO term early in the 1950's.

Like black usually being evil, white being good, red being gory
or sexual, green seems to have its own primal associations,
usually something disgusting or just plain creepy. We tend to
associate green with slimy, slithery, crawling, creeping little
critters and other things that go bump in the night.

The comics and comic strips of the 1930's and 1940's were
certainly full of green aliens, but whether "Little Green Men"
in an alien context was commonly used to reference them pre- or
post-Arnold is still not nailed down.


David Rudiak





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   Mar > Mar 7

                   Re: Abductees And Medication? - Rudiak

From: <colsweb.nul>
Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 20:23:27 -0000
Fwd Date: Sun, 07 Mar 2004 10:43:41 -0500
Subject: Re: Abductees And Medication? - Rudiak


>From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 14:04:13 EST
>Subject: Abductees And Medication?


>Question arose about abductees.

>Anyone have data on whether or not abductees were prescribed
>pharmaceuticals in relation to their abductee experience?

>This is on several levels. Psychiatric medication, physical
>injury medication.

>Is there a generalized combination of medications?


Hi Greg and all

In the UK delusions, paranoia, psychosis/suicidal tendencies of
abductees (said to be a delusion by the way) are treated with
the normal anti psychotics and anti depressants + blood tests
and treatment for problems in that regard. EECG test/s can also
be done and any lacking treated as required. In addition anti-
side effect meds may be also given. Usually these treatments are
eased off at the doctor's discretion as the patient becomes more
stable and able to cope.

I believe in some areas of the USA that whole body medicine is
practiced by some involving tests for amino acids, vitamin and
mineral levels of blood and hair etc and any low/high levels
treated with the necessary supplements, i.e.; treatment as for
illegal drug 'bad trips'/psychosis/depression. This is a slow
process and cannot be used in all cases but is a little kinder
than the normal psychotropic drug methodologies above.
Meditation techniques are also encouraged together with good
nutrition.

BTW, yes I believe I was abducted by ET early 1970's together
with interference occasionally since that time.

Kind regards to all,

Colin Stevenson

http://www.colsweb.com







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   Mar > Mar 7

                Re: "Bunny" Probably Lander Debris - Balaskas

From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul>
Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 16:38:05 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
Fwd Date: Sun, 07 Mar 2004 10:44:24 -0500
Subject: Re: "Bunny" Probably Lander Debris - Balaskas


>From: Mac Tonnies <macbot.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 16:59:37 -0800 (PST)
>Subject: CI: "Bunny" Probably Lander Debris

<snip>

>In this animation, one of the "ears" can be seen swaying in the
>Martian breeze. Evidently the object popularly known as the
>"bunny" is extremely lightweight - explaining its
>"disappearance."

>Sheddings from Opportunity Lead Rover Fans on a "Bunny" Chase

>http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/spotlight/opportunity/b19_20040304.html


Hi Everyone!

On February 6 this year I had the opportunty to hear Dr. William
K. Hartmann, an internationally known painter; scientist with
the U.S. Mars Global Surveyor mission (MGS) and author of the
book, 'A Traveler's Guide To Mars', at a talk about Mars that he
gave at the Ontario Science Centre.

Dr. Hartmann mentioned that the late Dr. Carl Sagan never ruled
out the possibility of large animals or macrobes moving around
the surface of Mars. The book 'The Search for Life on Mars' has
a chapter just on Dr. Sagan which deals with his involvement in
the life experiments which were onboard the two Viking landers
that successfully landed on Mars in 1976 and his beliefs that
not only microbes but plants such as trees and even animals like
rabbits hopping by may also exist on Mars.

Is this "Bunny" seen in some pictures taken by the Mars rover
Opportunity to be moving its ears(!) but mysteriously absent in
later pictures taken of the same area, or those mushroom-like
stemmed blueberries or even the pictures which seem to depict
forests on Mars taken by MGS that Dr. Hartmann includes in his
book without much comment, evidence that Dr. Sagan was right all
along about such "macrobes" existing on Mars?


Nick Balaskas







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                  Re: Abductees And Medication? - Holloway

From: Karin Hoppe Holloway <karin.h.h.nul>
Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 00:42:30 -0000
Fwd Date: Sun, 07 Mar 2004 11:02:56 -0500
Subject: Re: Abductees And Medication? - Holloway


>From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 14:04:13 EST
>Subject: Abductees And Medication?


>Anyone have data on whether or not abductees were prescribed
>pharmaceuticals in relation to their abductee experience?

>This is on several levels. Psychiatric medication, physical
>injury medication.

>Is there a generalized combination of medications?


Hi Greg,

>Anyone have data on whether or not abductees were prescribed
>pharmaceuticals in relation to their abductee experience?

>This is on several levels. Psychiatric medication, physical
>injury medication.

>Is there a generalized combination of medications?


None of my CE4 clients reported to me to have been on any sort
of perscription drug, or non-subscribed drug, at the time of any
of their Experiences. Nor was I.

CE4 Experiences usually start in childhood and continue
throughout their lives; hundreds - perhaps thousands - of
experiences. It would be difficult to track the medications of
such a time period.


Best,

Karin Hoppe Holloway, CHt, CEA
www.health-concern.com







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                NASA Deluged By Civilians' Mars 'Discoveries'

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
Date: Sat, 06 Mar 2004 20:43:19 -0800
Fwd Date: Sun, 07 Mar 2004 11:38:32 -0500
Subject: NASA Deluged By Civilians' Mars 'Discoveries'


Source: The Sun Herald

http://www.sunherald.com/mld/sunherald/news/nation/8124461.htm

Sat, Mar. 06, 2004

NASA Deluged By Civilians' Mars 'Discoveries'

BY FAYE FLAM

Knight Ridder Newspapers

PHILADELPHIA - (KRT) - Forget about ancient traces of water on
Mars. There's a little white bunny up there.

And stone tools.

And dinosaur fossils.

Plants, art, even letters of the alphabet.

While NASA scientists pore over the latest Red Planet images for
shreds of evidence that it might have supported algae or pond
scum, thousands of earnest civilians are scanning the same
pictures and pointing out all sorts of things the professionals
missed or haven't acknowledged.

Ever since the robot rovers Spirit and Opportunity landed on
Mars in January, NASA has been flooded with hundreds of daily
calls and e-mails from people eager to share their own dramatic
discoveries.

Medford, N.J., resident George Filer says he has spotted letters
similar to E and G, written on Martian rocks. Filer and his
associates at MUFON (Mutual UFO Network) believe these are the
creations of intelligent beings. He's been trying to tell NASA,
without success.

"They keep a lot from the public," said Filer, a retired Air
Force pilot.

Another observer called The Philadelphia Inquirer to report he'd
seen fossils of dinosaurs and their eggs, and a multitude of
marine fossils - whales, fish and giant squid. "You have to know
how to look," he said. Others have seen rocks they say appear to
have been fashioned into primitive stone tools.

Never before have earthlings had such sharp pictures from
another world, or such easy access to chat rooms, Web sites and
virtual communities to discuss the fossils, tools, letters and
the bunny. Especially the bunny.

A white rabbitlike image appeared in some of the first pictures
beamed back from Opportunity, caught in three-quarter profile,
long ears erect.

"Some Web sites have detailed spatial analysis on the bunny,"
said project scientist Phil Christensen of Arizona State
University.

Christensen says he saw the bunny in the early shots beamed back
from Opportunity. He said he lobbied to have the rover take a
closer look, but the bunny disappeared.

NASA scientists believe the "bunny" was probably a piece of the
landing air bag or some other bit of human-generated trash,
Christensen said. On one Web site, an outraged writer accused
NASA of intentionally running over the bunny with the rover.

The notion of bunnies on Mars may seem far-fetched now, but it
wasn't all that long ago that even eminent scientists speculated
about Martian trees, animals, even intelligent beings. In the
1960s, popular astronomer and author Carl Sagan talked up the
prospect of life on both Mars and Venus.

A closer look at Venus showed it was more than 800 degrees at
the surface. And then in 1965, the spacecraft Mariner 4 flew by
Mars and snapped the first close-up pictures of Mars - which
were both amazing and disheartening. They revealed nothing but a
dry, dead landscape.

"There was nowhere to hide large, conspicuous organisms," said
Harvard biologist Andrew Knoll.

But Sagan and other scientists didn't give up hope; perhaps life
was there in a more subtle form.

When the Viking spacecraft landed on Mars in 1976, it ran a
series of tests for life. A robotic arm on Viking mixed
nutrients with the Martian soil to see whether any microbes
would metabolize them and spit out telltale gases. The tests
came back positive.

Scientists waffled for months over whether the tests could
possibly indicate life. Meanwhile, pictures came back that
showed a rock etched with a shape similar to a letter B, said
Christensen, who worked as a NASA intern at the time.

The NASA guys thought it was funny, he said, but many in the
public believed the B was carved by Martians. "We learned our
lesson," said Christensen. "For a lot of people, this wasn't
funny."

NASA scientists did more analyses of the Viking landing site and
found surprises in the chemistry of the Martian soil. They
decided it was an unanticipated chemical reaction that made
their life-test come out positive. Adding to the bleak picture,
they determined that the atmosphere was less than 1 percent as
thick as ours.

According to "Captured by Aliens, by Joel Achenbach, Sagan
pretty much killed the B theory when he told talk-show host
Johnny Carson it was very unlikely that Martians would use the
same alphabet as Americans.

But in 1976 NASA did it again. In pictures beamed back from the
Viking Orbiter, it noticed a hill that looked like a huge face
with a solemn expression. The agency printed and released the
picture: a cute artifact of light. It got little attention at
first.

Eight years later, in 1984, the face stared out at millions of
supermarket shoppers from the cover of the Weekly World News.
Former CBS science consultant Richard Hoagland wrote a book
speculating that the face, as well as several pyramids, were
carved by an ancient Martian civilization.

Thousands of people still believe aliens made the face, though a
later view of Mars from the Mars Global Surveyor found that,
from a different angle, it just looked like a hill.

George Filer is not deterred. In a boulder photographed by
Spirit on its 44th Martian day, he said, there's a distinct
white E and a G, though the E may be closed off at the top, like
a P. The letters appear to be 3 to 4 inches tall, Filer said.

In his living room, he enlarged the picture on his wide-screen
television. He still had to point out the E and the G. They
looked like they might have been chiseled or spray-painted or
they might have been created by streaks of light that happened
to look like letters.

"I could see easily how NASA would miss them," he said. "What we
do is blow them up, so to speak, on the computer, using
Photoshop and the like. If you believe there's something out
there, you look for evidence."

Christensen said NASA can't make announcements about such
observations unless scientists rule out more mundane
explanations. They have to be wary of belief. As physicist
Richard Feynman once said: The first principle is that you must
not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool.

Some people at NASA probably know about the letters and much
more, Filer said. "I was in the military and there are a lot of
things you can't talk about." He believes NASA is trying to hide
that Mars and the universe are teeming with life.

NASA's Michelle Viotti, the agency's manager for Mars public
engagement, said she's not ignoring Filer; it's just that the
phones are ringing off the hook, and the space agency is still
sorting through the more than 15,000 e-mails it got from the
public in January. NASA is not hiding anything, she said.

"Secretly, deep down, we all hope there's life beyond our own
home planet."









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   Mar > Mar 7

                         CI: A Martian 'Centipede'?

From: Mac Tonnies <macbot.nul>
Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 21:13:19 -0800 (PST)
Fwd Date: Sun, 07 Mar 2004 11:39:39 -0500
Subject: CI: A Martian 'Centipede'?


Cydonian Imperative
5-6-04

A Martian 'Centipede'?
by Mac Tonnies

http://mactonnies.com/imperative47.html

I'm not a geologist or a biologist. Neither, to my
knowledge, is Richard Hoagland. But both of us
unconditionally agree: the segmented object in the
photo above looks decicedly fossil-like. The problem
is justifying JPL's subsequent grinding away of the
anomaly. If Mars once (or still does) host organisms,
preserving their possible remains for future study
strikes me as both sensible and reponsinble, even if
the current generation of rovers is unable to properly
analyze them.

How confident are we that similar "finds" (assuming
the "centipede" is a fossilized lifeform) will
fortuitously turn up when we eventually -- hopefully
-- make it to Mars in person? Could we have just
casually destroyed evidence of something truly
remarkable?

-end-





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                  Sasquatch Speaks: The Truth Is Out There

From: Loren Coleman <lcoleman.nul>
Date: Sun, 07 Mar 2004 01:02:15 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 07 Mar 2004 11:40:37 -0500
Subject: Sasquatch Speaks: The Truth Is Out There


The Washington Post
Washington, D.C.

The Reliable Source

By Richard Leiby
Sunday, March 7, 2004; Page D03

Sasquatch Speaks: The Truth Is Out There

Now it can be told: Bigfoot isn't real!

So says Bob Heironimus, a retired Pepsi bottler from Yakima, Wash., who
reveals to the Reliable Source that he donned a gorilla costume and appeared
in the famous grainy film clip that helped fuel the Bigfoot craze in 1967
and is studied by Bigfoot, Sasquatch and Yeti investigators to this day.

"It's time people knew it was a hoax," Heironimus told us. "It's time to let
this thing go. I've been burdened with this for 36 years, seeing the film
clip on TV numerous times. Somebody's making lots of money off this, except
for me. But that's not the issue -- the issue is that it's time to finally
let people know the truth."

Heironimus, 63, makes his full "confession," as he calls it, in a
just-published book by paranormal investigator Greg Long, "The Making of
Bigfoot." Long spent four years investigating the 60-second film clip and
the people behind it. He traces the shaggy Bigfoot costume to a North
Carolina gorilla suit specialist, Philip Morris, who says he sold it for
$435 to an amateur documentary maker named Roger Patterson (who died in
1972). The hoax was staged near Bluff Creek in Northern California,
according to Heironimus.

"Patterson was the cameraman," Long tells us. "They made a gentleman's
agreement that Bob would get in the suit and walk in front of the camera for
$1,000."

But, Heironimus says, "I was never paid a dime for that, no sir," and adds,
"Sure I want to make some money. I feel that after 36 years I should get
some of it."

Backers of the Bigfoot legend include primatologist Jane Goodall, who was in
Silver Spring last week to tout a new chimpanzee documentary that premieres
tomorrow on Discovery Communications' Animal Planet network. Too busy to
comment herself, Goodall authorized an aide, Nona Gandelman, to tell us she
has read "countless books" about Bigfoot, Sasquatch, Yeti, Chinese wild men
and other creatures. "She's spoken to people whom she respects who say they
have seen one of these hominids," said Gandelman, "and to many other people
she respects who have heard strange calls they thought were made by Bigfoot.
As a scientist, she has a very open mind about this and has yet to close the
door on the possibility."

Bigfoot researcher John Green, a retired Canadian journalist, says the book
doesn't disprove the existence of the mysterious beast. "It's all
[expletive]," he told us. "There are going to be libel actions flying."

Tom Malone, a lawyer in Minneapolis, called us Friday on behalf of Bob
Gimlin, associate of the now-dead Bigfoot filmmaker. "I'm authorized to tell
you that nobody wore a gorilla suit or monkey suit and that Mr. Gimlin's
position is that it's absolutely false and untrue."

And the mystery lives on.....







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   Mar > Mar 7

                      Re: Barry Chamish Site - Chamish

From: Barry Chamish <chamish.nul>
Date: Sun, 07 Mar 2004 13:59:32 -0800
Fwd Date: Sun, 07 Mar 2004 11:42:19 -0500
Subject: Re: Barry Chamish Site - Chamish


>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 16:17:21 +0000
>Subject: Re: Barry Chamish Site

>>From: Barry Chamish <chamish.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 16:01:45 -0800
>>Subject: Barry Chamish Site

>>I now have my own site. Please have a look at:

>>http://www.barrychamish.com

>I did, and I must say it fits right in with much of the other
>wild-eyed, conspiratorial bushwah that is popping up with
>appalling frequency on this site.

>What's next? Hitler is alive in Antarctica and harboring flying
>saucers inside the hole in the pole? And the Evil Government
>(which isn't well-organized enough to do the bizarre things
>credited to it as if it were a monolithic entity) knows all
>about it.

>The Illuminati-World Banker-Jeiwsh cabalists are suppressing
>the truth because they are in private negotiations with the
>Inner Earth Empire to exchange human beings to aliens for flying
>saucer technology. Of course, Bob Lazar tried to break the
>secret... gag! *cough*


Do not discount so quickly. I have been proven time and again
right. And vis a vis Rabin, about half of Israel has stopped
believing the government.


Barry







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                          Re: Good Hunting - Boone

From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 10:13:54 EST
Fwd Date: Sun, 07 Mar 2004 11:43:48 -0500
Subject: Re: Good Hunting - Boone


>From: Sean Jones <tedric.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 08:54:56 +0000
>Subject: Re: Good Hunting

>>From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 21:07:15 EST
>>Subject: Good Hunting

>Greg,

>Thanks for an interesting read, I only have one comment.

>>Whatever the prey is, it can run, but it'll only eventually end
>>up in a lab.

>Or in the cooking pot <g>


ROFL! I know Sean! I was going to add that but saying on
a plate with a fork in it.

Also it'd end up with a leash around it's neck with a name like
'Fido' catching frisbees for the rest of it's days.


Best,

Greg







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                    Re: Depressing But Instructive - Hall

From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
Date: Sun, 07 Mar 2004 15:58:31 +0000
Fwd Date: Sun, 07 Mar 2004 11:47:42 -0500
Subject: Re: Depressing But Instructive - Hall


>From: John Harney <magonia.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 21:34:36 -0000
>Subject: Re: Depressing But Instructive

>>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 11:14:03 +0000
>>Subject: UFO History: Depressing But Instructive

>On your UFO Page you deal with the story of the alleged killing
>of an ET at Fort Dix/McGuire AFB. The dead ET was said to have
>been hauled off to Wright-Patterson AFB (where else?).

>You consider this preposterous story to be authentic, despite
>the fact that it has - unlike Trindade, as Jerry Clark kept
>reminding us - _negative witnesses_. Yet you just sweep these
>negative witnesses aside with the words: "The fact that several
>of the officers involved have denied to other investigators
>having any knowledge of the incident is not surprising at all
>under the circumstances."


John,

On what basis do you conclude this "story" (i.e., direct
testimony from two witnesses and partial documentation) is
"preposterous?" Does your armchair have magic buttons that
reveal ytruth to you? I'm envious. Your total negative bias is
showing. Since there are no real UFOs, it can't be true.  (Non
potest, ergo non est.)

The NIDS investigator called me several times and tried to pry
loose my private and confidential files on the case, but I
didn't give them to him. Neither he nor any of the others at
NIDS interviewed the witnesses.

I can't prove the case is true because I lacked the resources to
follow-up the additional leads, but (as you conveniently left
out of your post) the primary witness checks out completely. I
met him on numerous occasions, his wife, his colleagues, etc. I
arranged for others to meet and question him, and in the fulll
sense of the word interrogate him. I am convinced his story is
true and the event is a closely held secret. Everything points
in that direction. But personal conviction obviously is not
proof, or even strong eveidence.

At this point I simply don't care whether you, NIDS, or anyone
else doesn't think the case is valid. I reported what I had
learned out of a sense of duty, and what I learned (in a
nutshell) is that the primary witness is a very solid with no
motive whatsoever for hoaxing. His connection with the case has
caused him lots of headaches over the years.

My reputation for careful, thorough investigation and a cautious
and conservative approach to the UFO subject (ask many people on
this list who utterly disagree with me about lots of things)
should give people pause about rejecting the report out of hand
as you are doing. I would advise you and everyone else to
suspend judgment.

  - Dick









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   Mar > Mar 7

                   Meier Believer Fails To Prove His Claim

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
Date: Sun, 07 Mar 2004 11:51:33 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 07 Mar 2004 11:51:33 -0500
Subject: Meier Believer Fails To Prove His Claim




Source: PRWeb

http://www.prweb.com/newsbymsa/index.htm

March 5, 2004


UFO Believer Fails Challenge To Prove His Claim! Proponent
Unwilling to Provide Evidence to Back His Claim

The Independent Investigations Group and The Center for Inquiry-
West challenged the representative of the famous Billy Meier UFO
case to provide the evidence he claims to have of
extraterrestrial encounters. He refused.


Los Angeles, CA (PRWEB) March 5, 2004 -- For the past three
years, Michael Horn, the self-described Authorized American
Media Representative for The Billy Meier Contacts, has been
claiming that The Center for Inquiry-West (CFI-West) has failed
to prove that the Billy Meier photographs are a hoax and
therefore the Billy Meier photographs are of real
extraterrestrial spaceships. This is, of course, a logical
fallacy. In addition, Michael Horn�s original challenge was to
�duplicate the effect� of the Meier photos, not to prove the
case a hoax.

On Wednesday, February 11, 2004, The Independent Investigations
Group (IIG) and CFI-West published a side-by-side comparison of
�fake� UFO photos taken by members of the IIG versus �real� UFO
photos taken by Billy Meier on the IIG website at
www.iigwest.com/ufopix.html. Having successfully completed
Michael Horn�s original challenge to �duplicate the effect� of
the Billy Meier photos, he then changed the challenge to include
having the IIG photos tested in the same manner he claims the
Billy Meier photos were tested. He also said that he had a piece
of metal that he claims to have come from an extraterrestrial
spacecraft that also proves that Billy Meier has had contact
with extraterrestrial visitors.

On Friday, February 27, 2004, The IIG and CFI-West challenged
Michael Horn to provide ONE original camera roll of negatives,
out of the approximately 1,200 supposed UFO photos taken by
Billy Meier, and a small piece of the metal he claims to have
come from an extraterrestrial spacecraft as physical evidence
for examination.

Less than two hours after receiving this challenge, Michael Horn
emailed back a refusal to provide ANY actual physical evidence
to back up his claim. CFI-West and the IIG suspect that any
physical material he would provide for testing would show the
Billy Meier case to be a hoax, and that Mr. Horn might lose
income selling DVDs and giving lectures about the Billy Meier
UFO claims.

This refusal to back up a claim with hard evidence is not new to
the IIG, whose business it is to investigate fringe science,
paranormal and extraordinary claims from a rational, scientific
viewpoint, and disseminate factual information about such
inquiries to the public. You can visit www.iigwest.com for
information on other claims that people have made to the IIG in
the past. To see the entire correspondence with Michael Horn and
his claims go to www.iigwest.com/horn.letters.html and to see
the comparison of photos taken by the IIG versus photos taken by
Billy Meier go to www.iigwest.com/ufopix.html.

The Center for Inquiry-West is the west coast home to the
Committee for the Scientific Investigation of Claims of the
Paranormal (CSICOP), publisher of Skeptical Inquirer magazine.
Visit our website at www.cfiwest.org, or call (323) 666-9797

For more information contact:
James Underdown, Executive Director
Center for Inquiry-West
(323) 666-9797 ext 101


[UFO UpDates thanks Norman for the lead]






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   Mar > Mar 7

                    Re: Identfy Friend Or Foe? - Freeman

From: Kelly Freeman <Khfflsciufo.nul>
Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 12:27:46 EST
Fwd Date: Sun, 07 Mar 2004 12:47:29 -0500
Subject: Re: Identfy Friend Or Foe? - Freeman



Hello list,

I would like to give you my perspective on the "sleep
paralysis" phenomenon. While living on Long Island, between
1988-90, I experienced numerous episodes where I would be lying
on my couch and then dozing off only to be suddenly awakened by
an intense electrical impulse inside the right side of my brain
followed by a sense of paralysis. I would try to move, but I
couldn't do it. Usually. these episodes would last only about 10
seconds or so, but it was still a little uncomfortable.

Since I moved down here to Florida, it has not happened to me
again. But, while I was visiting my father in New Mexico, and
sleeping in his RV, it happened again, accompanied by the radio
inside suddenly coming on briefly and what I would describe as
an orange light appearing, briefly inside. I can also remember
hearing female voices in my head. This lasted only seconds.

While on Long Island, I had endured a number of experiences,
 which I won't go into here, but the paralysis episodes were
only a part of a whole.

It is my belief that at least during 1988-1990, Long Island was
experiencing more than its share of UFO sightings. Now, I am not
saying that the paralysis episodes were caused by UFOs or
aliens. Just trying to give the episodes a little perspective.
At no time was I under any medication of any kind for
any- thing. I simply don't do the pharmaceutical thing.

I have never mentioned this to anyone before, because I have
been trying to find some answers to these "happenings". Any
feedback would be appreciated. Just keep it intelligent.


Mr. Kelly Freeman






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                       Re: Ramey AFB Sighting? - Hatch

From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
Date: Sun, 07 Mar 2004 08:53:53 -0800
Fwd Date: Sun, 07 Mar 2004 12:49:03 -0500
Subject: Re: Ramey AFB Sighting? - Hatch


>From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 00:39:28 -0700
>Subject: Ramey AFB Sighting?

>Is anyone aware of a sighting at Ramey AFB in Puerto Rico in the
>early sixties?

>Any documentation or references appreciated.

Hi Jim:

Searching for "RAMEY AFB" only, I have one listing in 1952 and
another in 1968. Nothing for the early 1960s. UFOCAT might have
more.


Sorry

- Larry







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                   Re: Depressing But Instructive - Harney

From: John Harney <magonia.nul>
Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 17:58:39 -0000
Fwd Date: Sun, 07 Mar 2004 19:14:50 -0500
Subject: Re: Depressing But Instructive - Harney


>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sun, 07 Mar 2004 15:58:31 +0000
>Subject: Re: Depressing But Instructive

>>From: John Harney <magonia.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 21:34:36 -0000
>>Subject: Re: Depressing But Instructive

>>On your UFO Page you deal with the story of the alleged killing
>>of an ET at Fort Dix/McGuire AFB. The dead ET was said to have
>>been hauled off to Wright-Patterson AFB (where else?).

>>You consider this preposterous story to be authentic, despite
>>the fact that it has - unlike Trindade, as Jerry Clark kept
>>reminding us - _negative witnesses_. Yet you just sweep these
>>negative witnesses aside with the words: "The fact that several
>>of the officers involved have denied to other investigators
>>having any knowledge of the incident is not surprising at all
>>under the circumstances."

>On what basis do you conclude this "story" (i.e., direct
>testimony from two witnesses and partial documentation) is
>"preposterous?" Does your armchair have magic buttons that
>reveal ytruth to you? I'm envious. Your total negative bias is
>showing. Since there are no real UFOs, it can't be true.  (Non
>potest, ergo non est.)

"I can't believe _that_!" said Alice.

"Can't you?" the Queen said in a pitying tone. "Try again: draw a
long breath and shut your eyes."

Alice laughed. "There's no use trying," she said: "one _can't_
believe impossible things."

"I dare say you haven't had much practice, " said the Queen.
"When I was your age, I always did it for half an hour a day.
Why, sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things
before breakfast."

-- Lewis Carroll, "Through the Looking-Glass"


>The NIDS investigator called me several times and tried to pry
>loose my private and confidential files on the case, but I
>didn't give them to him. Neither he nor any of the others at
>NIDS interviewed the witnesses.

But they interviewed the _negative_ witnesses. So an unbiased
person looking at the information available on this case has to
choose, at least provisionally, between the two witnesses or the
several negative witnesses as telling the truth. Elementary
logic and common sense come down in favour of those who say that
nothing unusual occurred.

>I can't prove the case is true because I lacked the resources
to
>follow-up the additional leads, but (as you conveniently left
>out of your post) the primary witness checks out completely.

I left out most of the details because I expected that those who
were interested, or wished to contribute further comments would
visit your website and the NIDS website first.

>I met him on numerous occasions, his wife, his colleagues, etc. I
>arranged for others to meet and question him, and in the fulll
>sense of the word interrogate him. I am convinced his story is
>true and the event is a closely held secret. Everything points
>in that direction. But personal conviction obviously is not
>proof, or even strong eveidence.

Precisely. Far to much credence is given to many UFO cases
because of personal conviction, friendship, and assessments of
the characters and personalities of alleged witnesses, rather
than hard evidence, independent testimonies, and genuine
documentation.

<snip>

>My reputation for careful, thorough investigation and a cautious
>and conservative approach to the UFO subject (ask many people
on >this list who utterly disagree with me about lots of things)
>should give people pause about rejecting the report out of hand
>as you are doing. I would advise you and everyone else to
>suspend judgment.

You don't suspend judgement in the account of it on your
website; you insist that it's authentic. Hardly a "cautious and
conservative approach" to such an extravagantly bizarre story.


John Harney







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                      Unusual UFO Picture from St Louis

From: Roy Hale <roy.nul>
Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 19:59:24 -0000
Fwd Date: Sun, 07 Mar 2004 19:42:40 -0500
Subject: Unusual UFO Picture from St Louis



Hi All,

I have just placed a UFO picture, which was taken inside Forest
Park, St Louis USA.

http://www.thelosthaven.co.uk/UFOStLouis.htm

All comments are welcome.

Thanks,

Roy






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                        Re: UFOs & Fairies? - LeClair

From: Aaron LeClair <force.nul>
Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 15:09:04 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 07:15:25 -0500
Subject: Re: UFOs & Fairies? - LeClair


>From: David Rudiak <DRudiak.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 10:32:01 -0800
>Subject: Re: UFOs & Fairies?

>>From: Chris Aubeck <caubeck.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 21:30:35 +0000 (GMT)
>>Subject: Re: UFOs & Fairies? - Aubeck

>>>From: Tom Benson <sparkle.nul>
>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 12:06:05 -0500
>>>Subject: Re: UFOs & Fairies? - Benson

<snip>

>>My personal conclusion is that the term "Little Green Men" was
>>in use long before 1947 to describe supernatural beings of
>>various kinds, and that the flying saucer age only redefined it
>>for a new generation.

>Super post! I think you are dead on that "Little Green Men" was
>probably in the vernacular for a very long time, first being
>applied to creatures like fairies, and then naturally attaching
>itself to aliens. It was certainly deeply inbedded as a
>sarcastic anti-UFO term early in the 1950's.

>Like black usually being evil, white being good, red being gory
>or sexual, green seems to have its own primal associations,
>usually something disgusting or just plain creepy. We tend to
>associate green with slimy, slithery, crawling, creeping little
>critters and other things that go bump in the night.

>The comics and comic strips of the 1930's and 1940's were
>certainly full of green aliens, but whether "Little Green Men"
>in an alien context was commonly used to reference them pre- or
>post-Arnold is still not nailed down.


To my Knowledge, when Percival Lowell thought there were canals
on Mars, and therefore intelligent life, writers started
imagining what they would look like, and came up with the little
green man. I do not recall if it was multiple writers, or just
one well known one that started the ball rolling.







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                 Re: Depressing But Instructive - Dickenson

From: Ray Dickenson <editor.nul>
Date: Sun, 07 Mar 2004 22:24:39 +0000
Fwd Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 07:16:56 -0500
Subject: Re: Depressing But Instructive - Dickenson


>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 08:25:07 -0600
>Subject: Re: Depressing But Instructive

>>From: John Harney <magonia.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 21:34:36 -0000
>>Subject: Re: Depressing But Instructive

>>You consider this preposterous story to be authentic, despite
>>the fact that it has - unlike Trindade, as Jerry Clark kept
>>reminding us - _negative witnesses_. Yet you just sweep these
>>negative witnesses aside with the words: "The fact that several
>>of the officers involved have denied to other investigators
>>having any knowledge of the incident is not surprising at all
>>under the circumstances."

>It is gratifying indeed to see that John Harney has finally
>admitted the importance of negative witnesses. Late, if nothing
>else, is better than never.

Hi, it _is_ depressing that so many folk still believe a real
event should be seen identically (or even at all) by multiple
witnesses.

http://www.perceptions.couk.com/magic2.html#2

and

http://www.perceptions.couk.com/percepts.html

should get it thru their skulls that the human brain cannot
"see" things, because the brain has no optical equipment. The
eye, which _is_ an optical instrument, sends its (digital)
output to the "lizard brain" which then suggests or imposes a
picture, chosen from previous templates, to be accepted by the
conscious (or "human") brain.

As Professor Ellison so clearly demonstrated (magic2.html),
given a large enough audience, witness testimony _must_ range
from "negative" (unable to "see" the event) - to "over-positive"
(generating an `untrue' explanation for event).

Either negative or over-positive impression is seen as "the
truth" by the witness. So, given a large audience, a real event
_should_ have both negative witnesses and over-positive
witnesses.

Indeed, a test of a "real" event might be a certain ratio of
"negative witnesses" (maybe of a certain psychological make-up).

cheers

Ray D

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Perceptions" http://www.perceptions.couk.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~





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                            Canadian Subscribers?

From: Barry Taylor <stingray.nul>
Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 13:26:02 +1100
Fwd Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 07:18:04 -0500
Subject: Canadian Subscribers?



Hello List members,

Are there any investigators/researchers on this List that live
in Canada? (or know of suitable contact)

I have just been contacted by a lady who is having "Unusual"
events occurring in her home. The important aspect of these
events, is that 'Physical evidence' is being left behind.

You may be required to collect this evidence in a professional
manner so as to keep samples sterile and suitable for scientific
analysis.

Location : Sask. Canada. Exact location will be revealed when
appropriate. Please reply to my direct email if you can assist.


Thanks,

Barry Taylor
stingray.nul








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                    Re: Identfy Friend Or Foe? - LeClair

From: Aaron LeClair <force.nul>
Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 19:14:31 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 07:20:36 -0500
Subject: Re: Identfy Friend Or Foe? - LeClair


>From: Ray Dickenson <editor.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sat, 06 Mar 2004 13:36:47 +0000
>Subject: Re: Identfy Friend Or Foe?

>>From: Aaron LeClair <force.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 19:15:02 -0500
>>Subject: Re: Identfy Friend Or Foe?

>>>A proportion of UFO/abduction experiences are well attested as
>>>non-material, metamorphic, shape-changing. They've been
>>>covered in Vallee's and others' studies but no further
>>>conclusions have been thought possible, except maybe by some
>>>in recent "UFOs and Fairies" posts.

>>One theory has to do with Ball lightning hitting people in the
>>head and then they have seizures, black out, then get regressed
>>then talk about grey guys due to the hypnotherapist suggestion
>>etc... Funny, but it is another theory in regards to say the
>>accounts where a basket ball size light is near an abductee,
>>then they get parralyzed, soon after see little grey guys morph
>>out of the ball of light. Example, the Debbie Jordan Intruders
>>Case by Budd Hopkins.

>The "temporal seizure explanation" is, like "sleep paralysis", a
>rather desperate attempt to give mole-hills as reason for
>mountains.

<snip>

>Sorry to spoil the party.

You didn't. I never said it was a good theory, only a theory,
and a funny one. I said this in regards to your statement that
no further conclusions have been thought possible.

I miss Blackmore's rainbow colored hair she had in late 70s, or
was it early 80s? Can't recall.










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              Re: NASA Deluged By Civilians' Mars 'Discoveries'

From: Aaron LeClair <force.nul>
Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 19:24:43 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 07:22:13 -0500
Subject: Re: NASA Deluged By Civilians' Mars 'Discoveries'


>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sat, 06 Mar 2004 20:43:19 -0800
>Subject: NASA Deluged By Civilians' Mars 'Discoveries'

>Source: The Sun Herald

>http://www.sunherald.com/mld/sunherald/news/nation/8124461.htm

>Sat, Mar. 06, 2004

>NASA Deluged By Civilians' Mars 'Discoveries'

>BY FAYE FLAM

>Knight Ridder Newspapers

>PHILADELPHIA - (KRT) - Forget about ancient traces of water on
>Mars. There's a little white bunny up there.

>And stone tools.

>And dinosaur fossils.

>Plants, art, even letters of the alphabet.

<snip>

Think that's bad? Look at this

http://krs4sure.2itb.com/DISCOVERY5/

I'm still shaking my head from when I first read it yesterday. I
thought it was a joke, and still hope it is, but he is arguing
it over and over in the ufo.report ng. He isn't alone in getting
all excited over martian dirt. I don't get it.









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                  Re: CI: A Martian 'Centipede'? - LeClair

From: Aaron LeClair <force.nul>
Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 19:37:08 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 07:26:04 -0500
Subject: Re: CI: A Martian 'Centipede'? - LeClair


>From: Mac Tonnies <macbot.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 21:13:19 -0800 (PST)
>Subject: CI: A Martian 'Centipede'?

>Cydonian Imperative
>5-6-04

>A Martian 'Centipede'?
>by Mac Tonnies

>http://mactonnies.com/imperative47.html

>I'm not a geologist or a biologist. Neither, to my
>knowledge, is Richard Hoagland. But both of us
>unconditionally agree: the segmented object in the
>photo above looks decicedly fossil-like. The problem
>is justifying JPL's subsequent grinding away of the
>anomaly. If Mars once (or still does) host organisms,
>preserving their possible remains for future study
>strikes me as both sensible and reponsinble, even if
>the current generation of rovers is unable to properly
>analyze them.

>How confident are we that similar "finds" (assuming
>the "centipede" is a fossilized lifeform) will
>fortuitously turn up when we eventually -- hopefully
>-- make it to Mars in person? Could we have just
>casually destroyed evidence of something truly
>remarkable?


Don't worry. If there are fossils, there will be loads more
there to deal with if and when we get to Mars. Personally, I
think we are looking at a rock I seen a dragon in a cloud
before, it was still a cloud. But if people want to scrutinize
pics of mars, looking for signs of life, fine with me. Just as
long as they don't make this field look any more stupid than it
does, which might be hard, come to think of it.










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                          An Anomalous SETI Signal

From: Walt Williams <eye_of_horus.nul>
Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 20:08:39 +0000
Fwd Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 07:32:21 -0500
Subject: An Anomalous SETI Signal



All,

FYI.

From my friends on the SETI-L .....

-----

From: LARRY KLAES <ljk4.nul>
To: <public.nul>
Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 11:16:39 -0500
Subject: SETI: An Anomalous SETI Signal - The SETI League in APOD


http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap040307.html

Goddard Space Flight Center

http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap040307.html

An Anomalous SETI Signal Credit & Copyright:

http://www.setileague.org/press/photouse.htm

SETI League:  http://www.setileague.org/

Explanation: No one knows for sure what caused this
signal (click to hear the wave file) --

http://www.setileague.org/software/unknown2.wav

There is a slight possibility that it just might originate from
an extraterrestrial intelligence...

-----


Best Wishes,

Walt Williams
Founder SETV search model

Director
Search for ExtraTerrestrial Visitation (SETV)
Northridge California, 91367, USA
http://www.setv.org

walt_williams.nul
===================================








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                Re: "Bunny" Probably Lander Debris - Maccabee

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 23:50:41 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 07:35:02 -0500
Subject: Re: "Bunny" Probably Lander Debris - Maccabee


>From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 16:38:05 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
>Subject: Re: "Bunny" Probably Lander Debris

>>From: Mac Tonnies <macbot.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 16:59:37 -0800 (PST)
>>Subject: CI: "Bunny" Probably Lander Debris

<snip>

>On February 6 this year I had the opportunty to hear Dr. William
>K. Hartmann, an internationally known painter; scientist with
>the U.S. Mars Global Surveyor mission (MGS) and author of the
>book, 'A Traveler's Guide To Mars', at a talk about Mars that he
>gave at the Ontario Science Centre.


Amusing to learn that Hartmann seems "for" sizeable critters
on Mars..

Hartmann has another claim to fame:

he was the photoanalyst for the Condon study (University of
Colorado) in 1967-1968.

Hartmann's most memorable statement refers to the analysis of
the McMinnville photos (Trent, 1950). He wrote that all factors
investigated seemed consistent with the idea that an
"extraordinary flying object" passed within the sight of two
witnesses.








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               Re: 1966-67 UFO Sighting Wave Study - Maccabee

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 23:50:36 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 07:37:36 -0500
Subject: Re: 1966-67 UFO Sighting Wave Study - Maccabee


>From: Nick Pope <nick.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 13:46:50 -0000
>Subject: Re: 1966-67 UFO Sighting Wave Study

>>From: Isaac Koi <isaackoi2.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 01:55:48 -0000
>>Subject: Re: 1966-67 UFO Sighting Wave Study

<snip>

>What everybody wanted to know was how many sightings were
>unexplained. But at the heart of that question was the
f.undamental difficulty over when to use the word "unexplained"
>and when to use the phrase "insufficient data". The sceptical
>faction in the MOD never wanted to categorise any sightings as
>"unexplained". Their view was that had additional information
>been available, it would have enabled desk officers to explain
>any and every UFO sighting in conventional terms.

>The producers of the recent BBC2 Timewatch documentary on UFOs
>asked me about this and requested that I send them copies of
>official documents where this issue had been addressed. The
>material below is adapted from my initial email response to
>Timewatch associate producer Lisa Charles.

>In strictness, both the Flying Saucer Working Party's final
>report and the Air Ministry's 9 August 1952 response to Winston
>Churchill's question about flying saucers stated that all UFO
>sightings had conventional explanations.

>On 15 July 1964 a Hansard extract records an MOD statement that
>90% of sightings had a "perfectly rational explanation" while
>10% of cases involved information "insufficient to support an
>adequate inquiry".

>On 24 June 1965 the MOD responded to a request for information
f>rom the USAF and told them that 90% of cases investigated could
>be explained. The remaining 10% were categorised as
>"insufficient data".

>The USAF's Project Blue Book figures for 1947 - 1965 (inclusive)
>showed that 646 cases out of 10,047 (i.e. approx 6.4%) were
>categorised as "unidentified". Blue Book had a separate category
>for "insufficient data", which averaged out in the years 1953 -
>1964 (inclusive) at approximately 18.3%.

>Based on my own official research and investigations, and my
>analysis of previous MOD files, I would agree that 5% of
>sightings could legitimately be categorised as "unexplained".

The differentiation between "unexplained" (U) and Insufficient
Information (II) is important. In the only really self
consistent study (done by Battelle Memorial Inst along with the
Air Force at Wright Pat... ATIC and published as Special Report
#14) divided the 3201 reports they analyzed (from between 1947
and the end of 1952) into Excellent (E), Good (G), Doubtful (D)
and Poor (P) subgroups. The quality was based upon the self
consistency, apparent credibility and amount of detail in the
reports. They found that as the quality went from P to E the
percent II dropped from 20% to 4% while the percent U increased
from 18% to 35%.

Here they emphazied that the U cases were not merely II cases,
but rather that the U cases had aspects of description which
should have allowed for identification had identification were
possible, whereas the II cases dd not have enough description to
clearly reject one or more possible explanations.

In year the years after the Battelle study Project Blue Book
tried to make it look to the public as if all the U cases could
be explained with more information, in other words that U cases
were actually II. However, during the Battelle period (47-52)
the II and U cases were distinct.

When the 204 excellent military reports (out of 1226 total
military) were separated from the group of E cases the percent U
was as high as 38% and the II cases amounted to only 1.5%.








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             Press Release - Paradigm Research Group - March 8,

From: Steven Bassett <Disclosure2003.nul>
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 03:18:57 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 07:40:00 -0500
Subject: Press Release - Paradigm Research Group - March 8,



PRG
Paradigm Research Group


Press
Release
March 8, 2004

Washington, DC - PRG announces the Paradigm Clock has been reset
to 11:58:45 pm (1 minute and 15 seconds from midnight). Based
upon recent developments the clock has been moved forward a net
15 seconds.

The Paradigm Clock was last reset on November 13, 2002 and
resides at the PRG website: [ www.paradigmclock.com
]www.paradigmclock.com. It is a metaphor representing the
proximity to formal acknowledgment by the U.S. government of an
extraterrestrial presence engaging the planet. It is modeled
after the "Doomsday Clock" first published in 1947 by the
Bulletin of Atomic Scientists. Midnight on the Doomsday Clock
meant nuclear war had begun. Midnight on the Paradigm Clock will
mean formal disclosure of the extraterrestrial presence has
taken place. [Note: these issues and much more will be presented
at the X-Conference, April 16-18, at the Hilton Washington,
DC/Gaithersburg [ www.x-conference.com ]www.x-conference.com .

Basis for new time. Expanded explanations can be found at:

www.paradigmclock.com/timechangechronicle.html

www.paradigmclock.com/timechangechronicle.html

3/2/04 - John Kerry locks up the Democratic Party nomination,
thus creating the prospect of two alumni of Yale University
based secret society, Skull and Bones, facing each other on the
November presidential ballot. This serves to place the issue
of government and cabalistic secrecy as a societal detriment
more prominently on the nation's radar.

Nov-Jan 2004 - A political firestorm develops over the quality,
source and veracity of U.S. intelligence regarding weapons of
mass destruction in Iraq. The matter of government propaganda
and possible misrepresentation of facts to the America people
regarding major issues is elevated to a degree not seen since
Iran Contra in the mid 1980's.

December 2003 - For the first time an orbiter circled the planet
Mars (the Mars Express) which was not under United States
control (European Space Agency). Consequently, barring secret
side agreements, the matter of Martian exoarcheology is now not
solely in the control of NASA, JPL and the U.S. government.

October 2003 - Numerous newspaper articles covering the opening
of the Center for American Progress mention millions of dollars
of financial backing from George Soros, thus placing the
billionaire financier just one degree of separation from the
issues of extraterrestrial phenomena and disclosure.

10/28/03 - Just seven days after the Sci Fi Channel/CFI second
NPC press conference, a new liberal think tank headed by John
Podesta, Center for American Progress, opens it doors.

10/21/03 - The Sci Fi Channel and the Coalition for Freedom of
Information hold a second press conference at the National Press
Club announcing their intentions to file law suits to pressure
the Department of Defense and National Aeronautics and Space
Administration over documents pertaining to the 1965 Kecksburg,
PA events.

9/17/03 - President George W. Bush issues an order under
Executive Order 12958 of April 17, 1995, as Amended extending
"Top Secret" classification authority to the Director of the
Office of Science and Technology Policy.

9/16/03 - President Bush issues Presidential Determination No.
2003-39, which continues to "exempt the Air Force's operating
location near Groom Lake, NV from any Federal, State, interstate
or local provision respecting control and abatement of solid
waste or hazardous waste disposal that would require the
disclosure of classified information concerning the operating
location to any unauthorized person."

11/01/01 - President Bush issues Executive Order 13233 altering
the Presidential Records Act and placing the disposition of
Ronald Reagan's Presidential papers and George H. W. Bush's Vice
Presidential papers under his control

PRG is dedicated to ending the government imposed truth embargo
and convening comprehensive congressional hearings to take the
testimony of government witnesses as regards extraterrestrial-
related phenomena.

Contact Stephen Bassett: 301-990-4290 / ParadigmRG.nul



________________________________________________________

Paradigm Research Group
E-mail: ParadigmRG.nul
URL: www.paradigmclock.com
Cell: 202-431-2459
4938 Hampden Lane, #161
Bethesda, MD 20814
_________________________________________________________

1st Annual Exopolitics Expo - The X-Conference
Hilton Washington DC North/Gaithersburg - April 16-18, 2004
www.x-conference.com








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   Mar > Mar 8

                      Hayward California Sighting Taped

From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO <hbccufo.nul>
Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 23:36:57 -0800
Fwd Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 07:42:48 -0500
Subject: Hayward California Sighting Taped


Hayward, California

Date:  June 13, 2002
Time:  9:15 p.m.
Email report:

HBCC UFO Research followed up by placing a phone call to the witness.
Video footage taken of the event.

Witnesses Email Report below...

On June 13, 2002 I video-taped a round dark object in the sky,
my kids had noticed as we sat in our hot tub just after 9:00
p.m. The object sat motionless until I started filming. Then it
darted in and out of clouds, also back and forth as I tried to
follow it. This was a very scary experience for my kids. I live
in Hayward, Ca. and noticed on your website another sighting in
the area. I've never witnessed anything of this shape or speed
in my life. I just want to get a professional opinion from
someone else. Any ideas?

Telephone follow up below:

I had a pleasant conversation with the witness on the telephone.
He described in detail what he and two other family members has
witnessed on June 13, 2002. The man said it was something he had
never saw before and was stunned at what they were observing.
The fellow explained that on the night of the sighting he and
the family were spending an evening in the hot tub and his
daughter was playing a game, who could spot the most airplanes
flying over head. The gentleman said that it is an active area
due to two airports which are fairly close by. The Oakland and
the Hayward airports.

It was the daughter who first spotted the object and said "there
is a plane". The man's son looked and said he didn't believe it
was a plane. The son asked his father to look at the object in
the night sky. When he looked up to see what the kids were
looking at he saw a black spot which was just sitting stationary
in the sky just below the cloud cover. They all could see the
clouds moving but the dark object stayed in the same spot, not
moving. They all wondered what could this be as it certainly
looked unusual and it sat in the one position for approximately
one minute and again it was not moving. Some quick thinking on
the Dad's part  ... had him running  into their home and
grabbing  a video camera which was sitting on the kitchen table.
He ran back outside with it. He had borrowed it from a close
friend a couple of days prior to this sighting to take some
footage of everyday things. Also not being really familiar with
the camera he was trying his best to catch what he could of the
object.

As he lined the camera up on the object, it started to move very
quickly. It would duck into the cloud cover then pop back out.
 It continued doing this a couple of times but always remaining
in the original area, not moving any distance from where they
first noticed it. It was night and  I wondered how they were
able to see a dark object against a blackened sky. The witness
said, even though it was dark out you were able to see a
whiteness of the clouds and the dark object which sat below
them. So it was the lightened backdrop which enabled the family
to see the darkened craft.

At one point the object moved into a darker cloud and as
everyone watched it  .... the cloud started swirling around and
seemed to pull more of the surrounding cloud into the swirling
motion. As it was doing this the cloud was growing darker. Again
the object poked out from the cloud just slightly and moved back
in again and this is when they all witnessed a strobing light
coming from inside the cloud cover with the cloud starting to
move closer in the direction of the family until it stopped and
pretty much straight away moved back to it's original place. The
total length of this sighting was approximately 2 to 3 minutes.
The fellow said all the time they spent outside that evening
they had not seen any other aircraft in the area.

The man called the Hayward airport to make an enquiry about what
they saw. The folks at the airport told him there were no
flights going out that night. The witness felt that was rather
unusual in itself. He thought maybe because the weather
conditions were not that good and socked in very badly, that
this may be the reason why no flights left that evening.

A still picture was made and blown up from the footage at one of
the local universities. The Astronomy Department of the
University and others checked the photograph out and saw that
there was an object in the photo but no one could  figure out
what it was. So again the witness was left with no answers to
this puzzling sighting.

The fellow told me after the sighting was over,  they all went
into the house as it certainly was a bit frightening to see such
a strange sight. He told me he just paced around the home and
wasn't at all sure what he was going to tell everyone about what
they had seen and videotaped that night.

Many thanks to this family for the wonderful report.

Brian Vike, Director
HBCC UFO Research
Home - Phone 250 845 2189
email: hbccufo.nul
Website: http://www.hbccufo.com








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                        Re: UFOs & Fairies? - Aubeck

From: chris aubeck <caubeck.nul>
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 11:59:59 +0000 (GMT)
Fwd Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 19:44:27 -0500
Subject: Re: UFOs & Fairies? - Aubeck


>From: David Rudiak <DRudiak.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 10:32:01 -0800
>Subject: Re: UFOs & Fairies?

>>From: Chris Aubeck <caubeck.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 21:30:35 +0000 (GMT)
>>Subject: Re: UFOs & Fairies? - Aubeck

>>>From: Tom Benson <sparkle.nul>
>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 12:06:05 -0500
>>>Subject: Re: UFOs & Fairies? - Benson

>>>>From: David Rudiak <DRudiak.nul>
>>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>>Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 19:26:23 -0800
>>>>Subject: Re: UFOs & Fairies?

>>>>UFOs & Fairies? (& Little Green Men)

>>>>A side-bar on the possible connections between
>>>>fairies and aliens concerns the the origins of
>>>>the term "Little Green Men."

<snip>

>Chris,

>Super post! I think you are dead on that "Little
>Green Men" was probably in the vernacular for a very
>long time, first being applied to creatures like
>fairies, and then naturally attaching itself to
>aliens. It was certainly deeply inbedded as a
>sarcastic anti-UFO term early in the 1950's.

<snip>

>The comics and comic strips of the 1930's and 1940's
>were certainly full of green aliens, but
>whether "Little Green Men" in an alien context was
>commonly used to reference them pre- or post-Arnold
>is still not nailed down.

> David Rudiak

Hi David,

A search for the earliest ever use of the term "Little Green
Men" in an alien context would probably not come up with very
satisfying results. Although it is true that little green men
sometimes featured in early science fiction, the expression
itself was not directly transferred from there to ufology.
Rather, the term became automatically associated with aliens
only when flying saucers were, and this happened gradually, not
immediately.

Fiction, supposed witnesses, and scientific speculation before
1900 usually spoke of giant extraterrestrials, not dwarves.
There are plenty of exceptions, but it was quite typical to
claim that extraterrestrials were around 12 feet high - that is,
twice the height of the tallest man anyone was likely to meet in
the street.

Unlike "flying saucer," which was thrust on the world by the
press in 1947 as a term to describe mysterious flying objects,
"little green man" was a common, age-old idiomatic expression,
comparable to "seeing pink elephants," yet with a basis in
folklore that was still alive in literature and some rural
societies.

So, the question "Was the expression used in an alien context
before 1947?" is best answered "no, it was used to describe all
sorts of supernatural beings and became associated with Martians
only after 'flying saucers' did."


Best wishes,

Chris








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                    Re: Depressing But Instructive - Hall

From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 13:54:40 +0000
Fwd Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 19:47:59 -0500
Subject: Re: Depressing But Instructive - Hall


>From: John Harney <magonia.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 17:58:39 -0000
>Subject: Re: Depressing But Instructive

>>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Sun, 07 Mar 2004 15:58:31 +0000
>>Subject: Re: Depressing But Instructive

>>>From: John Harney <magonia.nul>
>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 21:34:36 -0000
>>>Subject: Re: Depressing But Instructive

>>>On your UFO Page you deal with the story of the alleged killing
>>>of an ET at Fort Dix/McGuire AFB. The dead ET was said to have
>>>been hauled off to Wright-Patterson AFB (where else?).

>>>You consider this preposterous story to be authentic, despite
>>>the fact that it has - unlike Trindade, as Jerry Clark kept
>>>reminding us - _negative witnesses_. Yet you just sweep these
>>>negative witnesses aside with the words: "The fact that several
>>>of the officers involved have denied to other investigators
>>>having any knowledge of the incident is not surprising at all
>>>under the circumstances."

>>On what basis do you conclude this "story" (i.e., direct
>>testimony from two witnesses and partial documentation) is
>>"preposterous?" Does your armchair have magic buttons that
>>reveal ytruth to you? I'm envious. Your total negative bias is
>>showing. Since there are no real UFOs, it can't be true.  (Non
>>potest, ergo non est.)

>"I can't believe _that_!" said Alice.

>"Can't you?" the Queen said in a pitying tone. "Try again: draw a
>long breath and shut your eyes."

>Alice laughed. "There's no use trying," she said: "one _can't_
>believe impossible things."

>"I dare say you haven't had much practice, " said the Queen.
>"When I was your age, I always did it for half an hour a day.
>Why, sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things
>before breakfast."

>-- Lewis Carroll, "Through the Looking-Glass"

John,

Ironically, the late Isabel Davis used to quote that exact
dialogue to characterize what skeptibunkers believe in
preference to facing up to reality: such things as high
altitude, high-speed pelicans; hot-air balloons that leave deep
imprints on the ground and scare the pants off a cop; fireballs
that persist for many minuites, stop, hover, maneuver.

>>The NIDS investigator called me several times and tried to pry
>>loose my private and confidential files on the case, but I
>>didn't give them to him. Neither he nor any of the others at
>>NIDS interviewed the witnesses.

>But they interviewed the _negative_ witnesses. So an unbiased
>person looking at the information available on this case has to
>choose, at least provisionally, between the two witnesses or the
>several negative witnesses as telling the truth. Elementary
>logic and common sense come down in favour of those who say that
>nothing unusual occurred.

Phil Klass used to cite a person who lived in Socorro and didn't
see the object land, therefore it didn't happen. Do you believe
that too? The people NIDS interviewed were not the cops on the
scene (a la other people on the same deck of the ship).

>>I can't prove the case is true because I lacked the resources to
>>follow-up the additional leads, but (as you conveniently left
>>out of your post) the primary witness checks out completely.

>I left out most of the details because I expected that those who
>were interested, or wished to contribute further comments would
>visit your website and the NIDS website first.

>>I met him on numerous occasions, his wife, his colleagues, etc. I
>>arranged for others to meet and question him, and in the fulll
>>sense of the word interrogate him. I am convinced his story is
>>true and the event is a closely held secret. Everything points
>>in that direction. But personal conviction obviously is not
>>proof, or even strong eveidence.

>Precisely. Far to much credence is given to many UFO cases
>because of personal conviction, friendship, and assessments of
>the characters and personalities of alleged witnesses, rather
>than hard evidence, independent testimonies, and genuine
>documentation.

Therefore those cases are false? It depends a great deal on the
skills, character, ability, and reputation of those doing the
assessment, doesn't it? Independent testimonies we have in
abundance. Lots of documanettaion in many cases. Hard evidence
in some. But if you want to use the term "preposterous," let's
apply it to the caricature of science that demands a saucer in
the laboratory for physical analysis before even being willing
to look at evidence.

><snip>

>>My reputation for careful, thorough investigation and a cautious
>>and conservative approach to the UFO subject (ask many people
>>on this List who utterly disagree with me about lots of things)
>>should give people pause about rejecting the report out of hand
>>as you are doing. I would advise you and everyone else to
>>suspend judgment.

>You don't suspend judgement in the account of it on your
>website; you insist that it's authentic. Hardly a "cautious and
>conservative approach" to such an extravagantly bizarre story.

Try reading it again, John, as a test of your reading
comprehension. I pointed out quite plainly that my conclusion
was only a personal coinviction, and repeated that on this list.
I also made it quite clear that I could not prove the case, but
felt that it is authentic. What does "conservative" mean to you?
Assuming that a case or event is false because you can't offer
absolute physical proof of it?

"Extravagantly bizarre" on what basis other than your overt
prejudice and unwilingness to suspend judgment since your magic
buttons reveal that it is untrue? Look in the mirror, John, and
you will see a firmly closed mind apparently incapable of
careful judgment, lacking awareness of nuance, ignorant of the
protocols of scientific method. It is my hypothesis that the
case is genuine. Dispute my hypothesis all you wish, but don't
claim magic avenues to ultimate truth.

 - Dick








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   Mar > Mar 8

                  Re: CI: A Martian 'Centipede'? - Stanford

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 09:21:31 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 19:52:12 -0500
Subject: Re: CI: A Martian 'Centipede'? - Stanford


>From: Mac Tonnies <macbot.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 21:13:19 -0800 (PST)
>Subject: CI: A Martian 'Centipede'?

>Cydonian Imperative
>5-6-04

>A Martian 'Centipede'?
>by Mac Tonnies

>http://mactonnies.com/imperative47.html

>I'm not a geologist or a biologist. Neither, to my
>knowledge, is Richard Hoagland. But both of us
>unconditionally agree: the segmented object in the
>photo above looks decicedly fossil-like. The problem
>is justifying JPL's subsequent grinding away of the
>anomaly. If Mars once (or still does) host organisms,
>preserving their possible remains for future study
>strikes me as both sensible and reponsinble, even if
>the current generation of rovers is unable to properly
>analyze them.

>How confident are we that similar "finds" (assuming
>the "centipede" is a fossilized lifeform) will
>fortuitously turn up when we eventually -- hopefully
>-- make it to Mars in person? Could we have just
>casually destroyed evidence of something truly
>remarkable?

Hi Mac,

After many years of studying fossils and looking over hundreds
of thousands of pieces of sedimentary substrate to determine
whether they contain any fossils or not, and from working
closely with some of the world's most respected paleontologists
(researchers into ancient life forms) and paleoichnologists
(researchers into the ground traces left by ancient life forms),
and with all due respect because I know that to the
inexperienced eye the "centipede" may look like a fossil, I can
tell you that I see nothing in the image that appears to be
either an animal or plant fossil or even a fossilized trace of
such.

At this point I should also add that if it showed me any
possibility of being a fossil, I would be delighted and not
write this. If anyone doubts that, look at what I wrote about
the "concretions" (NASA/JPL's term) probably being evidence of
bacterial life. I am in no way a 'goat' about the possibility of
life (either past or present) on Mars. The trouble is, the
"centipede" image shows merely cracks radial to a vaguely
crescent-shaped cavity. I could offer several hypotheses
accounting for the crack pattern (and the cavity), but none
require any organism to have been involved. Furthermore, there
is absolutely nothing in the image that appears diagnostic of
fossilization of any kind, whatsoever.

Personally, it would greatly surprise me if there are not fairly
abundant fossils on Mars, since there was abundant water even on
the surface at one time, but I recommend great caution in what
we call a fossil, lest we "cry wolf" so much as to be unheeded
when a real "wolf" shows up.

On a related topic: I still have a clipping of an article that
came out the day before those first, very low-resolution images
of Mars were sent back to earth in 1965. Anyhow, it stated that
any images from Mars might be delayed being shown publicly for a
certain period of time, due to possible concerns related to
national security! (Huh?!!!) Because of that, I've always
wondered what JPL-NASA might decide to hide from the public. Is
such a "national security" policy is still in effect?

Would we be told the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the
truth? There is cause to wonder. We might justifiably ask what
about Mars could be considered, if released, a risk to national
security, whether in 1965 or in 2004. :)


Ray Stanford

"Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known."
-- Carl Sagan








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   Mar > Mar 8

                      Helen Birdsall On UFO MAGAZINE UK

From: Helen Birdsall <Helen.Birdsall.nul>
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 14:29:03 -0000
Fwd Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 19:56:03 -0500
Subject: Helen Birdsall On UFO MAGAZINE UK


I would firstly like to apologise to all our readers,
subscribers, contributors and friends who have had to find out
about the closure of UFO Magazine from second hand information.

My mother Christine and I had no knowledge that Philip Mantle
had spoken on behalf of us, he had no authority to do so and
letters are being sent out to officially let everyone know about
the closure as we speak.

Our staff are indeed upset by the decision to close the magazine
but they are certainly not surprised. I'm sure that you can
understand that UFO Magazine is a family run business and we
feel we can no longer run it without the main member of our
family being here..

Regarding the statement 'It's a sad day today and I'm only sorry
for Graham Birdsall that this has happened'

Firstly the only people that can speak for my father is us, yes
the magazine was my Dads life, but his priority was always his
family and there is no way that he would want us to continue if
he knew how unhappy it was making us.

It is a very sad day, we have made some amazing friends whilst
involved in this subject and had the best time along the way but
I hope that you will all understand and most importantly respect
our decision to no longer continue.


Thank you for all your support

Helen and Christine Birdsall







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               Re: Unusual UFO Picture From St Louis - Warren

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 07:19:18 -0800
Fwd Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 20:39:00 -0500
Subject: Re: Unusual UFO Picture From St Louis - Warren



>From: Roy Hale <roy.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 19:59:24 -0000
>Subject: Unusual UFO Picture from St Louis

>Hi All,

>I have just placed a UFO picture, which was taken inside Forest
>Park, St Louis USA.

>http://www.thelosthaven.co.uk/UFOStLouis.htm

>All comments are welcome.


Roy,

Are there supportive eye-witness declarations from Minard and
Dunevant, or did they discover the object later, in review?

Regards,

Frank










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                        Re: UFOs & Fairies? - Warren

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 07:46:57 -0800
Fwd Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 20:40:20 -0500
Subject: Re: UFOs & Fairies? - Warren


>From: David Rudiak <DRudiak.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 10:32:01 -0800
>Subject: Re: UFOs & Fairies?

>>From: Chris Aubeck <caubeck.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 21:30:35 +0000 (GMT)
>>Subject: Re: UFOs & Fairies? - Aubeck

>>>From: Tom Benson <sparkle.nul>
>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 12:06:05 -0500
>>>Subject: Re: UFOs & Fairies? - Benson

>>>>From: David Rudiak <DRudiak.nul>
>>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>>Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 19:26:23 -0800
>>>>Subject: Re: UFOs & Fairies?

>>>>UFOs & Fairies? (& Little Green Men)

>>>>A side-bar on the possible connections between
>>>>fairies and aliens concerns the the origins of the
>>>>term "Little Green Men."
>>>>We delved into this back in December, 2001, two of
>>>>my posts on possible comic book origins below:

>>The question of how the term "little green man" entered ufology
>>is a reoccurring one. I carried out some research into this
>>myself, finding the expression "little green men" used as far
>>back as the early 19th century, and the presence of little green
>>Martians in the 1890s.

>>I realised was that there have been four main categories of
>>usage:

>>1) In very old legends and folklore

>>2) In later fairytales and childrens's literature

>>3) As an expression of sarcasm (applying to aliens, fairies or
>>imaginary beings in general, especially when referring to
>>hallucinations)

>>4) In ufology, usually in order to mock believers, witnesses or
>>the subject of ufology itself.

>>My personal conclusion is that the term "Little Green Men" was
>>in use long before 1947 to describe supernatural beings of
>>various kinds, and that the flying saucer age only redefined it
>>for a new generation.

>Super post! I think you are dead on that "Little Green Men" was
>probably in the vernacular for a very long time, first being
>applied to creatures like fairies, and then naturally attaching
>itself to aliens. It was certainly deeply inbedded as a
>sarcastic anti-UFO term early in the 1950's.

>Like black usually being evil, white being good, red being gory
>or sexual, green seems to have its own primal associations,
>usually something disgusting or just plain creepy. We tend to
>associate green with slimy, slithery, crawling, creeping little
>critters and other things that go bump in the night.

>The comics and comic strips of the 1930's and 1940's were
>certainly full of green aliens, but whether "Little Green Men"
>in an alien context was commonly used to reference them pre- or
>post-Arnold is still not nailed down.


Dave, Chris Tom,

Staying in the same "folklore vein," I wonder if the definition
of "Little Green Men" (post 47) partially originated from the
"The Man In The Moon" and the moon being made of "green" cheese
stories?


Frank










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                         Re: Apollo 16 Film - Oberg

From: James Oberg <joberg.nul>
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 12:28:20 -0600
Fwd Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 20:43:18 -0500
Subject: Re: Apollo 16 Film - Oberg


>From: James Oberg <joberg.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 12:07:09 -0600
>Subject: Re: Apollo 16 Film - Oberg

Late last month there was a high level of message traffic about
a JSE article concerning the Apollo-16 video with an anomalous
image, and there was considerable speculation - prior to anyone
actually seeing the article, apparently - about what was claimed
in it, and what was proved.

Through the generosity of two colleagues I obtained a copy of
that article and posted my comments on February 26, here:

http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2004/feb/m26-007.shtml

In the ensuing ten days, as far as I've noticed, there has been
no farther discussion of this subject.

It was far from my intent to shut OFF any discussion, but rather
to begin the process of informed discussion.

I hope in coming days others will be able to examine the actual
article, compare it with my comments, and resume the discussion
at a much more productive level.


James Oberg







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   Mar > Mar 8

                          Alien Beings Affect Some

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 10:49:43 -0800
Fwd Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 20:47:31 -0500
Subject: Alien Beings Affect Some


Source: The Saginaw News - Michigan

http://www.mlive.com/news/sanews/index.ssf?/base/news-9/1078761070189820.xml

Alien beings affect some

Monday, March 08, 2004
Justin Engel
The Saginaw News


It's early afternoon, and Jeff is sitting in front of a dozen-
plus Delta College students, each ear and eye tuned tightly to
him and his out-of-this-world story.

Leaning against the chalkboard over his shoulder are three
pieces of art he's authored. They depict a different alien being
the 37-year-old mid-Michigan resident claims to have confronted.

"That dude in the middle," one student says, pointing toward the
painting of a preying mantis-like creature that seems to crackle
with a menacing static. "Man, I don't know about him."

But that's beside the point.

Class of its own

"There are people who say you shouldn't be teaching this kind of
thing in your classrooms," says Alan G. Hill, a Delta associate
professor of sociology who has dealt with unexplained phenomenon
such as Jeff's close encounters for decades now. "Some just
think it's a waste of money."

Hill is not one of those people. As the instructor of this class
-- titled Social Issues Seminar -- his interest in the
paranormal has manifested itself during the past several years
into an educational setting that explores sociological movements
such as riots, rumors, urban legends and today's subject, alien
abductions.

Some might deem the subjects irrelevant, he says. There was a
time when those same critics had similar words for two other
topics his class touches upon: Christian and Islamic extremism.

"People used to say, 'How could that be important?' " Hill says.

Then Heaven's Gate and 9/11 happened.

What Hill is attempting to do with his class isn't to find the
truth behind the topics or to turn his students into believers,
he says. Whether the preying mantis dude is real is for the
individual to decide, not for the teacher to determine, he says.

Instead, he wants to explore how these subjects fit into modern-
day sociology.

"Let's just say this isn't true -- let's just pretend there's an
explanation for all of this," he poses to his class. "This is
still one of the most amazing sociological phenomenon we've ever
come across."

Hill's students seem to prove that point, some staying as late
as 45 minutes after class just to hear his guest speaker's
story.

Jeff -- a mid-Michigan resident who chooses not to reveal his
last name to protect his father, who is involved in high school
athletics -- has visited Hill's class for the past five years.

"I have no love toward these experiences," Jeff says, the two
Diet Cokes he's brought into the room an indicator he knows this
will take a while to explain. "This isn't something I enjoy."

Jeff believes he's faced something extraordinary -- whether real
or imagined -- since he was a young boy; back when he discovered
what he thought were "big rats" inhabiting his home, back when
"Santa's elves" visited his bedroom one Christmas Eve.

Jeff is older now and knows better. These aren't rodents he's
seeing. Sometimes they're much nicer than that.

Other times, he says, they're much, much worse.

It was 1998 when Jeff returned to Central Michigan University as
a student. The night after final exams, he woke up to find
someone or something forcibly turning his head to its side.

Enter Mr. Mantis

"The next thing I knew, I had this," Jeff starts before turning
to point at the preying mantis-like creature framed in his
middle painting, "this thing coming down at my face."

He had a sense the man-size being wanted him to calm down even
as it stuck a needle-like object into his ear.

"It wanted me to relax," Jeff says, a hint of 6-year-old
exasperation still resonant in his voice. "I was like,
'(Expletive) no.' "

Jeff fought the encounter to no avail, waking up the next
morning with strained neck muscles and an eye he could barely
see with.

Not all of his experiences were so chilling.

In 1994, he says a small gray alien creature woke him from sleep
so he could escape a fire raging in his apartment.

Sometimes, Jeff says, the encounters are even laughable.

Jeff's girlfriend -- another so-called abductee he met through
friends in the UFO movement circle -- moved in with him several
years ago. That didn't sit too well with the beings visiting
her.

One night a creature woke him from sleep, paralyzed him, and
seemed to complain that Jeff's abductors were interfering with
his girlfriend's abductors.

"I guess I was making his job difficult," he laughs. "There
seemed to be a scheduling conflict there."

Therapy

Jeff says his encounters are slowing down now, his last coming
more than a month ago. That's a contrast to the daily
visitations he once received.

Coming to this classroom once a year is "therapy," as he calls
it. Jeff tries to avoid the media with obvious exceptions. He
believes -- as Hill does -- that topics such as his experiences
need attention more than coverage, ears more than television
cameras.

Jon J. Gallagher, for one, is listening.

"You can watch as many documentaries as you want," says
Gallagher, a 21-year-old student in the class. "When there's a
guy sitting in a room with you -- someone you can shake hands
with -- that makes it very real."

Ryan J. Ames, a 19-year-old "pretty devoted" Christian, says he
opposed claims such as Jeff's before he took Hill's class.

"Now I'm able to step back and have an open mind about it," Ames
says.

Nineteen-year-old Nicole J. Bates began the semester unaware of
what she was getting into.

During a break in the first of the three-hour classes, Bates
told Hill she probably would drop out because she didn't believe
in the paranormal. Hill swayed her to stay, saying believing
isn't a prerequisite to the course; only an open mind.

After hearing Jeff, Bates admits she's playing a different tune
now.

"There's no way (Jeff) was making it up," she says, adding that
if his experiences aren't real, she at least thinks he believes
they are  "I still don't know what to make of it."










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   Mar > Mar 9

                         Did UFO Bring Down Beagle?

From: Terry Groff <terry.nul>
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 12:21:16 -0600
Fwd Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 08:50:50 -0500
Subject: Did UFO Bring Down Beagle?


Source: The Scotsman - Edinburgh

http://news.scotsman.com/latest.cfm?id=2623746

Mon 8 Mar 2004


Did UFO Bring Down Beagle?

European scientists are examining an image of the Beagle 2 Mars
lander, taken moments after it was spun off from its mother
ship, that also shows an unidentified object.

The mysterious blot on the photograph is being scrutinised as
one of several potential reasons for the failure of the mission
- Europe's first attempt to land a probe on the Red Planet.

Mission controllers told a London meeting that they were also
considering the possibility that Beagle 2 simply crashed onto
the surface of Mars because the atmosphere on the planet was
less dense than expected.

Scientists said they are examining photographs of the landing
site that show four bright spots, dubbed the "string of pearls,"
that might be Beagle 2's remains.

Beagle 2 has not been heard from since it was ejected from the
European Space Agency's Mars Express orbiter in mid-December.
The 143 pound probe gave no answering signal to scheduled
attempts to contact it on Christmas Day and has remained
stubbornly silent ever since.

(No photos accompanied the article - Terry)







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   Mar > Mar 9

                      Re: Ramey AFB Sighting? - Speiser

From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser.nul>
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 16:16:45 -0700
Fwd Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 08:53:03 -0500
Subject: Re: Ramey AFB Sighting? - Speiser


>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sun, 07 Mar 2004 08:53:53 -0800
>Subject: Re: Ramey AFB Sighting?

>>From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 00:39:28 -0700
>>Subject: Ramey AFB Sighting?

>>Is anyone aware of a sighting at Ramey AFB in Puerto Rico in the
>>early sixties?

>>Any documentation or references appreciated.

>Searching for "RAMEY AFB" only, I have one listing in 1952 and
>another in 1968. Nothing for the early 1960s. UFOCAT might have
>more.

Thank you Larry. I am fairly certain the sighting in question
took place in the early sixties. I am checking with other
sources as well.

Thanks,

==JJS==








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                        Re: Sleep Paralysis - Speiser

From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser.nul>
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 16:35:23 -0700
Fwd Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 08:54:43 -0500
Subject: Re: Sleep Paralysis - Speiser


>From: Kelly Freeman <Khfflsciufo.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 12:27:46 EST
>Subject: Re: Identfy Friend Or Foe?

>I would like to give you my perspective on the "sleep
>paralysis" phenomenon. While living on Long Island, between
>1988-90, I experienced numerous episodes where I would be lying
>on my couch and then dozing off only to be suddenly awakened by
>an intense electrical impulse inside the right side of my brain
>followed by a sense of paralysis. I would try to move, but I
>couldn't do it. Usually. these episodes would last only about 10
>seconds or so, but it was still a little uncomfortable.

<snip>

>I have never mentioned this to anyone before, because I have
>been trying to find some answers to these "happenings". Any
>feedback would be appreciated. Just keep it intelligent.


OK, here goes... this is really strange... and I think it might
be pertinent to hypnopompic/hypnogonic experiences, of which
sleep paralysis is a subset. Then again it may not be pertinent,
but it's so darn strange I just have to talk about it.

When I was about four years old, there was this lamp that stood
next to my bed. It was a tall green floor lamp that ended in a
sort of conic shape at the top, with ornate gold-painted
fleur-de-lis designs around the top. Very 1940's.

One morning I woke up to the sight of my floor lamp at the foot
of my bed...at least it was there for about a second. When it
saw that I was "awake", it sprouted little cartoon legs and
dashed back to its normal place at the head of my bed.

OK, waking dream, four-year-old imagination, etc. etc. No
argument, although I must state that I did not then "wake up for
real" as in most such experiences. I sat bolt upright when I saw
this, and was then _wide_ awake.

Now, for the really, really strange part. Many years later, my
wife began recounting the exact same experience, which she had
when she was about four. She said the lamp was normally at the
head of her bed, but one morning she woke up to find it at the
foot of her bed, and as soon as she saw it, it sprouted cartoon
legs, kinda like a Dr. Seuss animal, and dashed back into place.

But wait, it gets stranger still.

I asked her to describe the lamp. Her description matched my
lamp in every way. Tall, dark green, old, fleur-de-lis designs,
the whole nine yards.

I don't have the slightest clue what this means...but never
having seen a UFO, ghost, or anything, it is the strangest story
I have to tell, and this is the first time I've ever posted
anything about it. I guess I'm hoping someone out there has a
similar experience to relate. Or maybe I'm hoping otherwise...


==JJS==







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                  Re: Identfy Friend Or Foe? - Peterborough

From: Kelly Peterborough <kellymcg.nul>
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 22:29:59 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 08:58:30 -0500
Subject: Re: Identfy Friend Or Foe? - Peterborough


>From: Kelly Freeman <Khfflsciufo.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 12:27:46 EST
>Subject: Re: Identfy Friend Or Foe?

>I would like to give you my perspective on the "sleep
>paralysis" phenomenon. While living on Long Island, between
>1988-90, I experienced numerous episodes where I would be lying
>on my couch and then dozing off only to be suddenly awakened by
>an intense electrical impulse inside the right side of my brain
>followed by a sense of paralysis. I would try to move, but I
>couldn't do it. Usually. these episodes would last only about 10
>seconds or so, but it was still a little uncomfortable.

>Since I moved down here to Florida, it has not happened to me
>again. But, while I was visiting my father in New Mexico, and
>sleeping in his RV, it happened again, accompanied by the radio
>inside suddenly coming on briefly and what I would describe as
>an orange light appearing, briefly inside. I can also remember
>hearing female voices in my head. This lasted only seconds.

>While on Long Island, I had endured a number of experiences,
>which I won't go into here, but the paralysis episodes were
>only a part of a whole.

>It is my belief that at least during 1988-1990, Long Island was
>experiencing more than its share of UFO sightings. Now, I am not
>saying that the paralysis episodes were caused by UFOs or
>aliens. Just trying to give the episodes a little perspective.
>At no time was I under any medication of any kind for
>any- thing. I simply don't do the pharmaceutical thing.

>I have never mentioned this to anyone before, because I have
>been trying to find some answers to these "happenings". Any
>feedback would be appreciated. Just keep it intelligent.

Awareness during Sleep Paralysis (ASP) is experienced by an
estimated 10 to 20 per cent of people at some point during life.
ASP can be truly terrifying beyond belief, especially when
accompanied by hallucinations. Some people only experience it
once, other people are plagued with it on a continual basis for
years.

The interesting thing I've noted is that very few people who
experience ASP equate it with UFO abduction and vice versa.

One good book to start with is The Terror That Comes in the
Night by David Hufford. Also, do a google search on 'Awareness
during Sleep Paralysis' and you get tons of hits.

Be assured you are not alone in ASP, and that many people
experience everything from being terrorized by 'things',
'beings', and 'demons'(including rapes and beatings) to making
friends with the things to experiencing incredible lucid dreams.
It's quite the adventure, never knowing what dreamland will hold
when you have ASP.

Many people with ASP have thought they were going crazy and have
gone to see neurologists and priests, both groups of which seem
not to have heard of ASP, although I think it is more well-known
now.

So, is ASP a glitch in the brain that leads to hyper-dreaming,
related somehow to the Sleeping Sickness that followed the Great
Flu of 1918, related to epilepsy, or a gate to another world or
dimension?

I don't know.

Hope that's intelligent enough fer ya. Sweet dreams!


Kelly








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              Re: Unusual UFO Picture From St Louis - Balaskas

From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul>
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 22:30:10 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
Fwd Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 09:00:30 -0500
Subject: Re: Unusual UFO Picture From St Louis - Balaskas


>From: Roy Hale <roy.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 19:59:24 -0000
>Subject: Unusual UFO Picture From St Louis

<snip>

>I have just placed a UFO picture, which was taken inside Forest
>Park, St Louis USA.

>http://www.thelosthaven.co.uk/UFOStLouis.htm

>All comments are welcome.

<snip>

Hi Roy!

Forest Park is a huge city park located within St. Louis that is
nearly 50 percent larger than New York City's Central Park. Its
many attractions include a bird house and the park serves as a
place of rest for migrating birds.

Although you give no details are given as to what exactly was
cropped and on what the picture was centered on, I think it is
safe to assume that both Kristina Minard and Eric Dunevant were
inside a car and the sight of the bright yellow and white "Sun
Dog" or false second Sun (the result of ice crystals formed in
damp cold winter skies) impressed them so much that they took
this picture.

Since there is no mention that either one saw a UFO before,
during or after they took the picture, then this is simply
another example of a BLURFO - an indistinct UFO-like image on
film or video with zero eyewitnesses.

Since birds do exist, even in central St. Louis, and there is no
mention that others reported seeing anything unusual in the
skies over St. Louis that day, I think it is reasonable to
conclude that this BLURFO was a bird in flight (too early in the
season for flying bugs).

Even if the much higher resolution version of this picture shows
that this BLURFO more closely resembles a distinct dark solid
disk shaped object, it could still be a blurred bird in flight
with its finer features lost in the very bright background.

At least this picture was not presented as proof of a very tight
grid pattern "chemtrail" spraying operation over St. Louis!


Nick Balaskas








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                    Artist's Impression Of The Mars Bunny

From: <colsweb.nul>
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 04:20:43 -0000
Fwd Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 09:02:10 -0500
Subject: Artist's Impression Of The Mars Bunny


Artist impression of the Mars Bunny.

http://www.colsweb.com/MarsBunny.gif

NASA pictures used to realise the form/shape;

First Nasa picture depicts the bushy tail (rear view with
ears down) and fluffy/feathery coat

NASA Side/front view depicts the ears and 6 short legs, NASA
Sculls picture gives head shape

surroundings indicated because NASA side/front view shows the
bunny in allert position (due to movement of camera) with head
raised as it would be raised above its natural surroundings

Eye color also based on NASA side/front view ie; eyes do not
show on the picture therefore same or similar color as coat.


Enjoy :-)

Colin Stevenson








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                   Re: Identfy Friend Or Foe? - Dickenson

From: Ray Dickenson <editor.nul>
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 12:54:17 +0000
Fwd Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 09:21:20 -0500
Subject: Re: Identfy Friend Or Foe? - Dickenson


>From: Aaron LeClair <force.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 19:14:31 -0500
>Subject: Re: Identfy Friend Or Foe?

>>From: Ray Dickenson <editor.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Sat, 06 Mar 2004 13:36:47 +0000
>>Subject: Re: Identfy Friend Or Foe?

>>Sorry to spoil the party.

>You didn't. I never said it was a good theory, only a
>theory, and a funny one. I said this in regards to your
>statement that no further conclusions have been thought
>possible.

>I miss Blackmore's rainbow colored hair she had in late
>70s, or was it early 80s? Can't recall.

Aaron - double apologies due, that "party" comment was meant to
be attached to:

>That "sterile, arid, frozen" scenario was accepted by the
>international safety committee as a justification for _not_
>sterilizing the Mars probes. NASA/JPL "scientists" promised the
>committee that contamination risks were - for the very first time
>- of "no consequence" - search for phrase at
>http://www7.nationalacademies.org/ssb/bcmarsch5.html
>[Since "Perceptions" drew attention, URL keeps changing - to hide
>the document? Don't be surprised if it's moved again]

>So good Listers rubbing their hands at aroma (see current
>NASA/JPL posts) of cooking goose should try to remember - "Truth
>will first be ridiculed, then violently opposed, and finally
>accepted as self-evident" A Schopenhauer 1788-1860.

>They'll simply re-write history - it's worked on every other
>issue, "scientific" or not. And the mainstream media are only too
>ready to lie for the establishment, they're part of it.

>Sorry to spoil the party.

Shouldn't have tried to get _two_ subjects in one mail?

Your `hair comment' interesting - (don't see media photo's - no
TV - by choice), it's a nice thought. But Blackmore doesn't
sound like a rainbow person nowadays.

Cheers

Ray D

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Perceptions" http://www.perceptions.couk.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~








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                        Re: Apollo 16 Film - Balaskas

From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul>
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 09:23:46 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
Fwd Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 09:42:33 -0500
Subject: Re: Apollo 16 Film - Balaskas


>From: James Oberg <joberg.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 12:28:20 -0600
>Subject: Re: Apollo 16 Film - Oberg

>>From: James Oberg <joberg.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 12:07:09 -0600
>>Subject: Re: Apollo 16 Film - Oberg

>Late last month there was a high level of message traffic about
>a JSE article concerning the Apollo-16 video with an anomalous
>image, and there was considerable speculation - prior to anyone
>actually seeing the article, apparently - about what was claimed
>in it, and what was proved.

>Through the generosity of two colleagues I obtained a copy of
>that article and posted my comments on February 26, here:

>http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2004/feb/m26-007.shtml

>In the ensuing ten days, as far as I've noticed, there has been
>no farther discussion of this subject.

>It was far from my intent to shut OFF any discussion, but rather
>to begin the process of informed discussion.

>I hope in coming days others will be able to examine the actual
>article, compare it with my comments, and resume the discussion
>at a much more productive level.

<snip>

Hi Jim!

No, we haven't forgotten you or about the anomalous images of a
saucer-shaped UFO in a movie that was allegedly shot during the
flight of Apollo 16 to the Moon. It was not that long ago that I
sent high quality photocopies of Hiroshi Nakamura's analysis
that was published in JSE to you and others by mail. It does
take time to carefully read Nakamura's 25 page paper and to do
some background checks and verifications of our own before one
makes any quick judgements...

Below is an e-mail I sent to fellow your Texan friend Lan
Fleming:


"Although a reflection from inside the Apollo 16 Command Module
has not been ruled out (we do not even know just how close the
camera was held to the window), I am not aware of other examples
of such reflections in movies or consecutive still photos taken
on Apollo 16 or by similar cameras used in other Apollo flights
in the vicinity of the Moon.

Did this mapping camera have a manual zoom? If the sequence of
pictures of the Moon in the contact sheet (see Fig. 17) are in
chronological order and was accurately reproduced in this paper,
the angular size of the Moon varies from frame to frame. So a
double exposure where the two images of the Moon are not the
same size is not anything to be suspicious about - unless this
particular camera used would make it double exposures impossible
(just like the polaroid cameras that Ed Walters used but somehow
still managed to create such double exposures himself). If it
was the some other Apollo crew, I would suspect a prank was
played or even a deliberate UFO hoax.

James Oberg's objections that the author of the paper used a
later generation and possibly even an altered or retouched copy
of this movie that was obtained through Internet sources and not
NASA is a non-issue, especially since James himself claims to
have seen this Apollo 16 movie and had initially identified the
UFO as the Earth (footnote 1, page 410)!

Grant Cameron is doing further investigation into the Apollo 16
UFO images and last Saturday night on Errol's 'Strange Days...
Indeed' radio program, on UFOs, he also spoke about Apollo 14
astronaut Edgar Mitchell's recent UFO revelations. Edgar was
also the backup Lunar Module pilot for Apollo 16. I wonder what
his comments would be regarding the Apollo 16 UFO images."


Nick Balaskas








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   Mar > Mar 10

                           Sleep Paralysis - Woolf

From: Maurice Woolf <MauriceW.nul>
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 16:51:02 +0200
Fwd Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 08:04:30 -0500
Subject: Sleep Paralysis - Woolf


>From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 16:35:23 -0700
>Subject: Re: Sleep Paralysis

>>From: Kelly Freeman <Khfflsciufo.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 12:27:46 EST
>>Subject: Re: Identfy Friend Or Foe?

>>I would like to give you my perspective on the "sleep
>>paralysis" phenomenon. While living on Long Island, between
>>1988-90, I experienced numerous episodes where I would be lying
>>on my couch and then dozing off only to be suddenly awakened by
>>an intense electrical impulse inside the right side of my brain
>>followed by a sense of paralysis. I would try to move, but I
>>couldn't do it. Usually. these episodes would last only about 10
>>seconds or so, but it was still a little uncomfortable.

<snip>

>>I have never mentioned this to anyone before, because I have
>>been trying to find some answers to these "happenings". Any
>>feedback would be appreciated. Just keep it intelligent.

>OK, here goes... this is really strange... and I think it might
>be pertinent to hypnopompic/hypnogonic experiences, of which
>sleep paralysis is a subset. Then again it may not be pertinent,
>but it's so darn strange I just have to talk about it.

<snip>

>I don't have the slightest clue what this means...but never
>having seen a UFO, ghost, or anything, it is the strangest story
>I have to tell, and this is the first time I've ever posted
>anything about it. I guess I'm hoping someone out there has a
>similar experience to relate. Or maybe I'm hoping otherwise...

I think you and your wife were probably genetically compatible
and that could explain your similar experiences. You were chosen
for each other at age 4. Excuse my presumptuous statement, but
it is just an observation.

I have had similar experiences, I have been having sleep
paralysis episodes since childhood I am 36 now but its
diminished or disappeared since the last time it happened, as I
had made an effort to stay alert and not let the fear take hold
of me. The last time I stayed conscious I noticed a pearl
colored egg-like sphere appear above my bed and I entered this
sphere it seemed to be fluid like in its appearance once this
happened I had no further recollection. Since then, the
paralysis episodes have almost disappeared or maybe the
technique has been changed by the abductors, because of my
inquisitive behavior.

Is there anyone on the List who has ever seen this sphere as
well or tried this technique to gain control over the paralysis.


Maurice Woolf









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                    Re: An Anomalous SETI Signal - Shell

From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 08:51:15 -0600
Fwd Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 08:08:46 -0500
Subject: Re: An Anomalous SETI Signal - Shell


>From: Walt Williams <eye_of_horus.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>,
>Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 20:08:39 +0000
>Subject: An Anomalous SETI Signal

>Explanation: No one knows for sure what caused this
>signal (click to hear the wave file) --

>http://www.setileague.org/software/unknown2.wav

>There is a slight possibility that it just might originate from
>an extraterrestrial intelligence...

Sounds like Martians to me! Seriously, though, has anyone who
knows Morse Code read the blips and bleeps to see if they make
any sense?








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                  Re: Did UFO Bring Down Beagle? - Balaskas

From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul>
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 10:25:28 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
Fwd Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 08:09:44 -0500
Subject: Re: Did UFO Bring Down Beagle? - Balaskas


>From: Terry Groff <terry.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 12:21:16 -0600
>Subject: Did UFO Bring Down Beagle?

>Source: The Scotsman - Edinburgh

>http://news.scotsman.com/latest.cfm?id=2623746

>Mon 8 Mar 2004

>Did UFO Bring Down Beagle?

>European scientists are examining an image of the Beagle 2 Mars
>lander, taken moments after it was spun off from its mother
>ship, that also shows an unidentified object.

>The mysterious blot on the photograph is being scrutinised as
>one of several potential reasons for the failure of the mission
>- Europe's first attempt to land a probe on the Red Planet.

>Mission controllers told a London meeting that they were also
>considering the possibility that Beagle 2 simply crashed onto
>the surface of Mars because the atmosphere on the planet was
>less dense than expected.

>Scientists said they are examining photographs of the landing
>site that show four bright spots, dubbed the "string of pearls,"
>that might be Beagle 2's remains.

>Beagle 2 has not been heard from since it was ejected from the
>European Space Agency's Mars Express orbiter in mid-December.
>The 143 pound probe gave no answering signal to scheduled
>attempts to contact it on Christmas Day and has remained
>stubbornly silent ever since.

>(No photos accompanied the article - Terry)

<snip>

Hi Terry!

Last night I did a quick search for the photo of Beagle 2 that
shows the unidentified object referred to in the article above
that was taken shortly after it separated from the Mars Express
mothership.

Could this UFO be the brightest of several star-like objects
seen in the picture found at the Beagle 2 web site below?

http://www.beagle2.com/resources/photo-album.htm

It is important to learn why Beagle 2 failed to make contact
with Earth after it landed (crashed?) on Mars, especially to
York University space scientist, Prof. Brendan Quine. His
private company has designed 'Northern Light', an improved
version of the Beagle 2 lander that also includes a small rover
named 'Beaver'. He hopes that his Mars landing mission will be
funded by the Canadian Space Agency or other interested group
that has about $50 to $150 million to spare.

The 'Northern Light' Mars landing mission is separate to the
work other space scientists here at York University are involved
in with 'Pheonix', a NASA Mars lander with Canadian
participation that is the next spaceprobe scheduled to land on
the surface of the Red Planet and to search for ET life.


Nick Balaskas








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                          Secrecy News -- 03/09/04

From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood.nul>
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 10:26:42 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 08:11:34 -0500
Subject: Secrecy News -- 03/09/04


SECRECY NEWS
from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy
Volume 2004, Issue No. 26
March 9, 2004


**"DRASTIC" CHANGES SEEN IN DOMESTIC MILITARY OPERATIONS
**HHS ESTABLISHES BIOSECURITY ADVISORY BOARD
**DOD DIRECTIVE ON SAFEGUARDING BIOLOGICAL AGENTS
**REP. HARMAN ON "SERIOUS INTELLIGENCE REFORM"


"DRASTIC" CHANGES SEEN IN DOMESTIC MILITARY OPERATIONS

In the absence of clear guidelines and effective oversight, the
U.S. military is becoming increasingly involved in domestic
operations, including surveillance activities that blur the
traditional distinction between foreign intelligence and
domestic security.

"Since September 11, 2001, the role of the military in domestic
operations has changed drastically," according to the 2004
Operational Law Handbook of the U.S. Army Judge Advocate General
(JAG) Corps.

"Prior to September 11, military involvement in domestic
operations was almost exclusively in the area of civil support
operations. Post-September 11, the military's role has expanded
to cover 'homeland defense' and/or 'homeland security' missions,
somewhat undefined terms," the JAG Handbook stated (p. 355).

Several instances of "an expanding military role in domestic
affairs" were reported today in the Wall Street Journal.

In one case, an Army intelligence officer demanded that a
University of Texas law school turn over the videotape of an
academic conference in order to identify "Middle Eastern"
individuals who had made "suspicious" remarks.

See "Is Military Creeping Into Domestic Spying and Enforcement?"
by Robert Block and Gary Fields, Wall Street Journal, March 9,
p. B1, temporarily available to non-subscribers here:

http://online.wsj.com/article/0,,SB107879172448949834-
email,00.html

One military intelligence organization with a domestic presence
is the low-profile Counterintelligence Field Activity (CIFA).

Quietly created post-September 11, CIFA has a broad charter to
provide counterintelligence and security support to the Defense
Department around the world and within the United States.

"Worldwide, more than 400 civilian and military employees work
for CIFA with the ultimate goal of detecting and neutralizing
the many different forms of espionage regularly conducted
against the United States by terrorists, foreign intelligence
services and other covert and clandestine groups," according to
the Defense Security Service.

"The threats posed by these adversaries include actions to kill
or harm U.S. citizens; to steal critical information or assets
(military or civilian); or destroy critical infrastructures."

CIFA was established in 2002 by Department of Defense Directive
5105.67. See a copy of that Directive here:

http://www.fas.org/irp/doddir/dod/d5105_67.htm

The 2004 Operational Law Handbook published by the U.S. Army JAG
Corps provides a comprehensive map of the terrain of military
law, from the legal basis for the use of force to domestic
operations to the laws governing intelligence and special
operations. A copy is posted here (563 pages, 4.6 MB PDF file):

http://www.fas.org/irp/doddir/army/law2004.pdf


HHS ESTABLISHES BIOSECURITY ADVISORY BOARD

The Department of Health and Human Services last week announced
the creation of a National Science Advisory Board for
Biosecurity to help oversee potentially sensitive or hazardous
research in the life sciences.

The move generally follows a recommendation of the National
Academy of Sciences in a report published last year on
"Biotechnology Research in an Age of Terrorism: Confronting the
Dual Use Dilemma."

The new Board appears to have such limited authority that it is
unlikely to interfere with the conduct of research, as some
scientists had feared. It remains to be seen whether it has
sufficient authority to make a meaningful contribution to
security policy, as others had hoped.

See the March 4 HHS press release here:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/2004/03/hhs030404.html

A detailed FAQ and other information about the new Board may be
found here:

http://www.biosecurityboard.gov/


DOD DIRECTIVE ON SAFEGUARDING BIOLOGICAL AGENTS

The Department of Defense last month issued a new directive on
security for particularly hazardous biological agents and
toxins.

It would establish a database of all DoD and contractor
facilities possessing such materials, and would impose
restricted access on them. It would also "establish a Biological
Personnel Reliability Program for individuals with access to
biological select agents and toxins."

See DoD Directive 5210.88 on "Safeguarding Biological Select
Agents and Toxins," issued by Deputy Secretary of Defense Paul
Wolfowitz on February 11, 2004:

http://www.fas.org/irp/doddir/dod/d5210_88.pdf


REP. HARMAN ON "SERIOUS INTELLIGENCE REFORM"

"Our intelligence community needs an extreme makeover," said
Rep. Jane Harman (D-CA) at a speech on intelligence reform
presented March 5 at the American Enterprise Institute. She is
the ranking Democrat on the House Permanent Select Committee on
Intelligence.

Rep. Harman identified five steps that the President could take
this year to correct past errors and improve future performance,
beginning with a "scrub" of all intelligence on weapons of mass
destruction.

"If estimates of Iraq's WMD programs were so far off the mark,
we must be concerned that systemic deficiencies in intelligence
analysis on other WMD programs and activities exist, such as
those in Iran, Libya, North Korea, Syria and Pakistan," she
said.

"But there are no discernible signs from the Vice President or
President acknowledging the obvious flaws in our intelligence
systems," she said. See:

http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/2004_cr/harman030504.html


_______________________________________________
Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the
Federation of American Scientists.

To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to
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Secrecy News is archived at:
http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html

_______________________
Steven Aftergood
Project on Government Secrecy
Federation of American Scientists
web:  www.fas.org/sgp/index.html
email: saftergood.nul
voice: (202) 454-4691








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   Mar > Mar 10

                      Friedman Pummels McGaha In Debate

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 07:53:57 -0800
Fwd Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 08:16:11 -0500
Subject: Friedman Pummels McGaha In Debate



Hello All,

In watching the Friedman/McGaha Debate video last night, it was
no surpise that Stan was in rare form and McGaha certainly was
out of his league on this one!

Stan's presentation was informative, direct and to the point.
His key points, in his introduction, I felt were a wise choice,
and his overall delivery was superb as usual. The occasional
quip I thought was a plus to his stage presence, and enabled
the audience to relate to him. His summation was heartfelt, and
by that point the audience was wholeheartedly in the Friedman
corner.

On the flipside I felt that McGaha was unorganized, awkward and
nervous. Although he talked a lot about science, he didn't seem
to provide any data, other then rehashing the same old rants
that have been used against Ufology for decades. I found it hard
to believe that he believed what he was saying! It was almost
comical in the sense that he seemed to exhibit all of Friedman's
debunking factors - and doing it while standing next to Stan:

1). What the public doesn't know, we certainly won't tell them.

2). My mind is made up, don't bother me with the facts.

3). If one can't attack the data, attack the people. It is
easier.

4). Do one's research by proclamation rather than investigation.

Finally, at the end during the Q & A session, it seemed that
McGaha "morphed into a politician" as I don't believe he
answered any questions directed toward him! At this point, it
seemed as if McGaha didn't want to be there.


Cheers,

Frank










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              Re: NASA Deluged By Civilians' Mars 'Discoveries'

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 11:47:52 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 08:18:38 -0500
Subject: Re: NASA Deluged By Civilians' Mars 'Discoveries'


>From: Aaron LeClair <force.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 19:24:43 -0500
>Subject: Re: NASA Deluged By Civilians' Mars 'Discoveries'

>>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Sat, 06 Mar 2004 20:43:19 -0800
>>Subject: NASA Deluged By Civilians' Mars 'Discoveries'

>>Source: The Sun Herald

>>http://www.sunherald.com/mld/sunherald/news/nation/8124461.htm

>>Sat, Mar. 06, 2004

>>NASA Deluged By Civilians' Mars 'Discoveries'

>>By Faye Flam

>>Knight Ridder Newspapers

>>PHILADELPHIA - (KRT) - Forget about ancient traces of water on
>>Mars. There's a little white bunny up there.

>>And stone tools.

>>And dinosaur fossils.

>>Plants, art, even letters of the alphabet.

><snip>

>Think that's bad? Look at this

>http://krs4sure.2itb.com/DISCOVERY5/

>I'm still shaking my head from when I first read it yesterday. I
>thought it was a joke, and still hope it is, but he is arguing
>it over and over in the ufo.report ng. He isn't alone in getting
>all excited over martian dirt. I don't get it.

Hi Aaron,

That one takes the cake! Better said, it takes the 'bovine
pattie'. If the writer's tongue is not in cheek, their mind is a
basket case.


Ray Stanford

"You know my method. It is founded upon the observance of trifles."
 -- Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery








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   Mar > Mar 10

                       Re: UFOs & Fairies? - Dickenson

From: Ray Dickenson <editor.nul>
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 16:50:38 +0000
Fwd Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 08:20:12 -0500
Subject: Re: UFOs & Fairies? - Dickenson


Sorry if this suggested already - re. little green men.

"The Green Man" (apparently named by Lady Raglan 1939) said to
have near-history of 400 years, but earlier incarnation in Roman
or earlier times.

http://www.indigogroup.co.uk/edge/greenmen.htm

http://www.mikeharding.co.uk/greenman/greenindex.html

From memories of more recent "Green Man" tales he was maybe
"good" or sometimes "bad" - but always awfully powerful and never
remotely human.

Cheers

Ray D


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Perceptions" http://www.perceptions.couk.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~







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   Mar > Mar 10

                          Hoagland's Fossil Theory

From: Chaz Stuart <Daydisk2.nul>
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 15:50:01 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 08:21:52 -0500
Subject: Hoagland's Fossil Theory


Don't laugh! I don't know about the "cover-up", but he does make
a rather strong case for this fossil being a crinoid relative or
"sea lily" stem:


http://www.enterprisemission.com/articles/03-08-2004/crinoid_cover-up.htm

(too many important, relevant pix to just post the text).


--Chaz








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                  Re: Did UFO Bring Down Beagle? - LeClair

From: Aaron LeClair <force.nul>
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 17:43:42 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 09:08:19 -0500
Subject: Re: Did UFO Bring Down Beagle? - LeClair


>From: Terry Groff <terry.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 12:21:16 -0600
>Subject: Did UFO Bring Down Beagle?

>Source: The Scotsman - Edinburgh

>http://news.scotsman.com/latest.cfm?id=2623746
>
>Mon 8 Mar 2004

>Did UFO Bring Down Beagle?

>European scientists are examining an image of the Beagle 2 Mars
>lander, taken moments after it was spun off from its mother
>ship, that also shows an unidentified object.

<snip>

Know where we can see the image? Thanks.










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             Re: Artist's Impression Of The Mars Bunny - LeClair

From: Aaron LeClair <force.nul>
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 17:49:14 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 09:11:09 -0500
Subject: Re: Artist's Impression Of The Mars Bunny - LeClair


>From: Colin Stevenson <colsweb.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 04:20:43 -0000
>Subject: Artist's Impression Of The Mars Bunny

>Artist impression of the Mars Bunny.

>http://www.colsweb.com/MarsBunny.gif

>NASA pictures used to realise the form/shape;

>First Nasa picture depicts the bushy tail (rear view with
>ears down) and fluffy/feathery coat

>NASA Side/front view depicts the ears and 6 short legs, NASA
>Sculls picture gives head shape

>surroundings indicated because NASA side/front view shows the
>bunny in allert position (due to movement of camera) with head
>raised as it would be raised above its natural surroundings

>Eye color also based on NASA side/front view ie; eyes do not
>show on the picture therefore same or similar color as coat.


It's not a rabbit, it's a badger. See:

http://www.badgerbadgerbadger.com/








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                     MJ-12 & Rocky Mountain Flats - Huff

From: Robert J Huff <rhuff.nul>
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 16:04:11 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 09:28:11 -0500
Subject: MJ-12 & Rocky Mountain Flats - Huff


Hi,

From 1952 to 1989, Rocky Mountain Flats was a government
facility used to fabricate and assemble parts for nuclear
weapons.

Specifically, machinist milled plutonium into triggers for
nuclear bombs. The triggers were then shipped to Texas for
assembly into a weapon.

Recently I Met an individual who has worked as a Radiation
Monitor at Rocky Mountain Flats since 1969.

When asked about the existence of MJ-12, he acknowledged of
their existence and commented that they had recruited 5
machinist form Rocky Flats to work at Area 51 at the Nevada Test
Site. Though they had worked at Rocky Flats for many years,
their high-level Q clearances were re-vetted.

He also acknowledged the presence of MJ-12 at Cheyenne Mountain,
Colorado Springs.

He indicated he did not know MJ-12's mission.

Very best,


Bob









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   Mar > Mar 10

                       Re: Sleep Paralysis - Stanford

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 18:03:12 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 09:13:51 -0500
Subject: Re: Sleep Paralysis - Stanford


>From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 16:35:23 -0700
>Subject: Re: Sleep Paralysis

>>From: Kelly Freeman <Khfflsciufo.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 12:27:46 EST
>>Subject: Re: Identfy Friend Or Foe?

>>I would like to give you my perspective on the "sleep
>>paralysis" phenomenon. While living on Long Island, between
>>1988-90, I experienced numerous episodes where I would be lying
>>on my couch and then dozing off only to be suddenly awakened by
>>an intense electrical impulse inside the right side of my brain
>>followed by a sense of paralysis. I would try to move, but I
>>couldn't do it. Usually. these episodes would last only about 10
>>seconds or so, but it was still a little uncomfortable.

><snip>

>>I have never mentioned this to anyone before, because I have
>>been trying to find some answers to these "happenings". Any
>>feedback would be appreciated. Just keep it intelligent.

>OK, here goes... this is really strange... and I think it might
>be pertinent to hypnopompic/hypnogonic experiences, of which
>sleep paralysis is a subset. Then again it may not be pertinent,
>but it's so darn strange I just have to talk about it.

>When I was about four years old, there was this lamp that stood
>next to my bed. It was a tall green floor lamp that ended in a
>sort of conic shape at the top, with ornate gold-painted
>fleur-de-lis designs around the top. Very 1940's.

>One morning I woke up to the sight of my floor lamp at the foot
>of my bed...at least it was there for about a second. When it
>saw that I was "awake", it sprouted little cartoon legs and
>dashed back to its normal place at the head of my bed.

>OK, waking dream, four-year-old imagination, etc. etc. No
>argument, although I must state that I did not then "wake up for
>real" as in most such experiences. I sat bolt upright when I saw
>this, and was then _wide_ awake.

>Now, for the really, really strange part. Many years later, my
>wife began recounting the exact same experience, which she had
>when she was about four. She said the lamp was normally at the
>head of her bed, but one morning she woke up to find it at the
>foot of her bed, and as soon as she saw it, it sprouted cartoon
>legs, kinda like a Dr. Seuss animal, and dashed back into place.

>But wait, it gets stranger still.

>I asked her to describe the lamp. Her description matched my
>lamp in every way. Tall, dark green, old, fleur-de-lis designs,
>the whole nine yards.

>I don't have the slightest clue what this means...but never
>having seen a UFO, ghost, or anything, it is the strangest story
>I have to tell, and this is the first time I've ever posted
>anything about it. I guess I'm hoping someone out there has a
>similar experience to relate. Or maybe I'm hoping otherwise...


Hi Jim,

O.K. Got it!: Fleur-de-lis (dead give-away), conical shape at
the top (sure clue)! Whomever they are, they're from France!
(Ref.: Saturday Night Live, recalling the bizarre 'cone heads'
who when asked where they were from always said, "We are from
France". :)))

Sorry, I couldn't resist.


Ray Stanford

"You know my method. It is founded upon the observance of
trifles." -- Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery








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   Mar > Mar 10

                        Decker Lake British Columbia

From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO <hbccufo.nul>
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 15:13:03 -0800
Fwd Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 09:38:11 -0500
Subject: Decker Lake British Columbia


Decker Lake, British Columbia

Date:  February 27, 2004
Time:  10:30 p.m.

A lady called from her home in Decker Lake, British Columbia to
file a report on what she witnessed on February 27, 2004. She
observed an object with a number of blue lights on it above
Pauline Mountain. The object moved diagonally towards the
mountain. At some points while she observed it, it stopped,
moved vertically up and down and then continued traveling on a
diagonal path. At one point in the sighting she said it appeared
to look like a disk shaped craft. The lady said she heard no
sound as she was indoors looking out her window and across the
lake towards the mountain. She was able to observe this object
for approximately 5 to 10 minutes before it disappeared.

HBCC UFO foot note: This sighting sounded similar to the
December 8, 2003 sighting entitled, Houston, British Columbia
Frightening Encounter. Decker Lake is approximately a 45 minute
drive east from my home here in Houston, British Columbia.

-----

Decker Lake, British Columbia

Date:  March 7, 2004
Time:  approximately 9:10 p.m.

A witness observed a bright white light and thought at first it
might have been an airplane due to the elongated shape.  Shortly
afterwards it changed into a more round or oval shape and came
to a complete stop. As the witness watched the object traveling
along over Pauline Mountain it flashed an extremely bright blue
light. The object did this a couple of times and what came next
surprised the lady. She clearly was able to see a ring of blue
lights which ran horizontally around the center of the object.
The woman reported there were a large number of lights, and said
it was hard to estimate how many. But she figured there had to
be a dozen or more.

She was able to observe the object for approximately 25 minutes.
As it moved slowly further away the lady lost sight of it. The
lady said it grew smaller and dimmer in size due to the distance
away until it disappeared. She grabbed her video camera and ran
outside, but she explained at this time into the sighting the
object was already at a good distance away and she failed to get
any footage.  The witness did mention that if she'd thought of
the camera at the time of the sighting she was confident that
she'd have been able to film it. No sound was heard. No reaction
from the pets.

HBCC UFO foot note: This sighting sounded similar to the
December 8, 2003 sighting entitled, Houston, British Columbia
Frightening Encounter. Decker Lake is approximately a 45 minute
drive east from my home here in Houston, British Columbia.


Brian Vike
Director HBCC UFO Research
Home - Phone 250 845 2189
email: hbccufo.nul
Website: http://www.hbccufo.com








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               Re: Hayward California Sighting Taped - Seguin

From: Trevor Seguin <h0riz0n.nul>
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 18:11:49 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 09:40:24 -0500
Subject: Re: Hayward California Sighting Taped - Seguin


>From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO <hbccufo.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 23:36:57 -0800
>Subject: Hayward California Sighting Taped

<snip>

>A still picture was made and blown up from the footage at one of
>the local universities. The Astronomy Department of the
>University and others checked the photograph out and saw that
>there was an object in the photo but no one could figure out
>what it was. So again the witness was left with no answers to
>this puzzling sighting.

<snip>

>Brian Vike, Director
>HBCC UFO Research
>Home - Phone 250 845 2189
>email: hbccufo.nul
>Website: http://www.hbccufo.com

I wonder, will either the footage or the still image be made
available to the list? I have intrest in seeing this as it is
quit similar to an experience I had _near_ to the same time.


Thanks

Trevor Seguin

Now that I am wireless.... you can find me here!








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              CCCRN News: XRD Study of Canadian Crop Formation

From: Paul Anderson <paulanderson.nul>
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 18:21:27 -0800
Fwd Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 09:44:21 -0500
Subject: CCCRN News: XRD Study of Canadian Crop Formation


CCCRN NEWS
E-News from the Canadian Crop Circle Research Network

March 10, 2004

http://www.cccrn.ca

_____________________________


XRD Study Of Canadian Crop Formation Now Available From BLT
Research Team Inc.


Have just received the news from Nancy Talbott that the long-
awaited XRD study focusing on the seven-circle barley formation
at Edmonton, Alberta in 1999 is now available on the BLT web
site:

http://www.bltresearch.com/xrd.html

At this end, a special thank you to CCCRN Alberta and Crop
Circle Quest researchers Judy and Mike Arndt in Edmonton,
Alberta who did excellent sampling and other field work of this
formation for BLT.


Nancy's report follows:

-----

After constant delays (mostly due to financial constraints) the
X-ray diffraction study of clay minerals in crop circle soils,
which was begun in 1999 and completed in late 2001, is now
available on the BLT Research Team Inc.'s web-site at:

http:://www.bltresearch.com/xrd.html

BLT is most grateful to Mr. and Mrs. Lyman D. Rogers of Newtown,
Connecticut, whose financial support made this possible, and to
web-site personnel Kim McDonald Gazecki, William Bombardier, and
Abby Lewis who did the actual work of transferring the study to
the web.

This study, funded by Laurance Rockefeller, examined specific
clay minerals (those which are called "expandable" clays and
which are most sensitive to heat) in crop circle soils, in an
attempt to gather further data which might inform us regarding
the hypothesized presence of microwave radiation at crop circle
sites. Multiple scientists were involved (see "Study
Personnel"), most of whom were totally unacquainted with the
crop circle phenomenon at the time they carried out their
individual work on the project. These scientists were carefully
chosen, not only for their specific expertise, but because they
were unaware of the phenomenon, thus ruling out any potential
assertions by skeptics of "experimenter bias."

The results are startling. Specific clay minerals
(illite/smectites) are shown to exhibit a subtle, but
statistically significant, increase in degree of
crystallization....a change heretofore seen only in sedimentary
rock, which has been exposed to the massive pressure (called
"geologic" pressure) of tons of overlying rock and to heat from
the earth's core over hundreds, or thousands of years. To our
knowledge this increase in degree of crystallization has never
been reported previously in surface soils (as is the case here).

If "geologic" pressure had been present, obviously the plants
would have been obliterated. And, of course, they were not.
Further, if the intense heat required (a minimum of 6-800
degrees C, over a period of many hours) to produce the
crystalline change (in the absence of such geologic pressure)
had been present, the plants would have been incinerated. And,
again, they were not. The plants did show the well-documented
changes (elongated apical nodes, presence of expulsion cavities)
regularly found in crop circles which are not created by
mechanical flattening (i.e., with planks and boards). What is
MOST interesting is the fact that both the documented plant
changes and the increases in clay-mineral crystallization
occurred at the SAME sampling locations. A regression analysis
found that the node-length increases in the plants were
correlated with the increase in crystallization of the clay
minerals in the soils at the 99.2% level of confidence, a truly
extraordinary result.

So the data appear to indicate that whatever caused the plant
changes, also caused the soil changes at the same sampling
locations. And yet we realize that the intense energy situation
required to produce the soil effects would have destroyed the
plants altogether. As Dr. Reynolds, the Dartmouth mineralogist
and recognized authority on clay minerals and the XRD technique
whom we asked to review our study stated, we are apparently
dealing with an energy currently unknown to science.

As is often the case in science, new and intriguing questions
have been raised. The notion of mechanical flattening, however,
is without question ruled out.

We hope that all interested members of the crop circle community
will take the time to examine the new study. All of the data and
personnel involved have been included on the web-site. BLT
welcomes comments and/or questions. Please note, also, that many
other changes and additions have been made to other pages on the
site, including the following pages: "Home," "Plant
Abnormalities," "Clay-Mineral XRD Study," "Other Facts,"
"Professional Consultants," "Lab Reports," and "Contact."


Nancy Talbott
BLT Research Team Inc.

http://www.bltresearch.com>www.bltresearch.com

____________________________


CCCRN News is the e-news service of the Canadian Crop Circle
Research Network, providing e-mail updates with the latest news
and reports on the crop circle phenomenon in Canada, as well as
other information on CCCRN-related projects and events, sent
free to your e-mail

To subscribe or unsubscribe, send an e-mail with either
Subscribe CCCRN News or Unsubscribe CCCRN News in the subject
line to: cccrnnews.nul

The Canadian Crop Circle Research Network is a non-profit
research organization which has been seriously investigating and
documenting the crop circle phenomenon and other possibly
related phenomena in Canada since 1995, creating a liason
between researchers, farmers, the public, media and scientists

c. CCCRN, 2004








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                   CI: New Perspectives On The 'Centipede'

From: Mac Tonnies <macbot.nul>
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 21:47:37 -0800 (PST)
Fwd Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 09:46:53 -0500
Subject: CI: New Perspectives On The 'Centipede'


Cydonian Imperative
3-10-04

New Perspectives on the "Centipede"

See: http://www.mactonnies.com/cydonia.html

[Paleontologist Ray Stanford has give me permission to post the
following skeptical commentary on the "centipede fossil" (see
above). Meanwhile, Richard Hoagland has posted a feature-length
piece on the curious formation (The Curious Case of the NASA
Crinoid Cover-Up) that leans toward a biological origin. --M.T.]

After many years of studying fossils and looking over hundreds
of thousands of pieces of sedimentary substrate to determine
whether they contain any fossils or not, and from working
closely with some of the world's most respected paleontologists
(researchers into ancient life forms) and paleoichnologists
(researchers into the ground traces left by ancient life forms),
and with all due respect because I know that to the
inexperienced eye the "centipede" may look like a fossil, I can
tell you that I see nothing in the image that appears to be
either an animal or plant fossil or even a fossilized trace of
such.

At this point I should also add that if it showed me any
possibility of being a fossil, I would be delighted and not
write this. If anyone doubts that, look at what I wrote about
the "concretions" (NASA/JPL's term) probably being evidence of
bacterial life. I am in no way a 'goat' about the possibility of
life (either past or present) on Mars. The trouble is, the
"centipede" image shows merely cracks radial to a vaguely
crescent-shaped cavity. I could offer several hypotheses
accounting for the crack pattern (and the cavity), but none
require any organism to have been involved. Furthermore, there
is absolutely nothing in the image that appears diagnostic of
fossilization of any kind, whatsoever.

Personally, it would greatly surprise me if there are not fairly
abundant fossils on Mars, since there was abundant water even on
the surface at one time, but I recommend great caution in what
we call a fossil, lest we "cry wolf" so much as to be unheeded
when a real "wolf" shows up.

On a related topic: I still have a clipping of an article that
came out the day before those first, very low-resolution images
of Mars were sent back to earth in 1965. Anyhow, it stated that
any images from Mars might be delayed being shown publicly for a
certain period of time, due to possible concerns related to
national security! (Huh?!!!) Because of that, I've always
wondered what JPL-NASA might decide to hide from the public. Is
such a "national security" policy is still in effect?

Would we be told the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the
truth? There is cause to wonder. We might justifiably ask what
about Mars could be considered, if released, a risk to national
security, whether in 1965 or in 2004. :)

-end-





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                     Re: UK UFO Magazine Closes - Mantle

From: Philip Mantle <philipmantle.nul>
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 08:38:02 +0000
Fwd Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 09:49:51 -0500
Subject: Re: UK UFO Magazine Closes - Mantle


To all List Members,

My earlier message regarding the closure of UFO MAGAZINE was
sent on behalf of no one but myself.

The rumour mill had started so I took it upon myself to inform
people before these rumours got out of hand. Neither did I speak
for the late Graham Birdsall. I knew Graham for almost 25 years
and this was purely a personal note from myself.

I have not attempted to speak on behalf of anyone connected to
UFO MAGAZINE and if I have caused any offence I can only
apologise as this was not my intention. I shall say no more on
the matter and wish all of Graham's family all the very best for
the future.


Philip Mantle








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                    Re: An Anomalous SETI Signal - Hatch

From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 01:48:30 -0800
Fwd Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 09:52:07 -0500
Subject: Re: An Anomalous SETI Signal - Hatch


>From: Walt Williams <eye_of_horus.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>,
>Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 20:08:39 +0000
>Subject: An Anomalous SETI Signal

>All,

>FYI.

>>From my friends on the SETI-L .....

> -----

>From: LARRY KLAES <ljk4.nul>
>To: <public.nul>
>Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 11:16:39 -0500
>Subject: SETI: An Anomalous SETI Signal - The SETI League in APOD

>http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap040307.html

>Goddard Space Flight Center

>http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap040307.html

>An Anomalous SETI Signal Credit & Copyright:

>http://www.setileague.org/press/photouse.htm

>SETI League: http://www.setileague.org/

>Explanation: No one knows for sure what caused this
>signal (click to hear the wave file) --

> http://www.setileague.org/software/unknown2.wav

>There is a slight possibility that it just might originate from
>an extraterrestrial intelligence...


Hello Walt:

I hope you will forgive me for this, but I downloaded the sound
file. It sounds like something from a 1950s science fiction
movie! Half a century later, could somebody be making fun of us?
Naaaaah.


Best wishes

- Larry








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                        Re: UFOs & Fairies? - Kaeser

From: Steven Kaeser <steve.nul>
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 08:51:26 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 09:54:22 -0500
Subject: Re: UFOs & Fairies? - Kaeser


>From: Ray Dickenson <editor.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 16:50:38 +0000
>Subject: Re: UFOs & Fairies?

>Sorry if this suggested already - re. little green men.

>"The Green Man" (apparently named by Lady Raglan 1939) said to
>have near-history of 400 years, but earlier incarnation in Roman
>or earlier times.

>http://www.indigogroup.co.uk/edge/greenmen.htm

>http://www.mikeharding.co.uk/greenman/greenindex.html

>>From memories of more recent "Green Man" tales he was maybe
>"good" or sometimes "bad" - but always awfully powerful and never
>remotely human.

I think the link between "The Green Man" and "Little Green Men"
is very tenuous, at best. "The Green Man" has been a
mythological entity for centuries, and there have been numerous
writings about what he represents, such as:

http://www.mythinglinks.org/ct~greenmen~DanNoel.html

I think of him more as a 'Father Nature' figure and have kept
his image in my garden and home for years.

This isn't to say that there isn't any sort of a link between
mythological entities and what we today know as "aliens".
However, these theories aren't easily proven and are more often
than not simply good subjects for discussion.


Steve








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              Re: Friedman Pummels McGaha In Debate - Lehmberg

From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg.nul>
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 07:54:41 -0600
Fwd Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 09:57:11 -0500
Subject: Re: Friedman Pummels McGaha In Debate - Lehmberg


>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 07:53:57 -0800
>Subject: Friedman Pummels McGaha In Debate

>In watching the Friedman/McGaha Debate video last night, it was
>no surpise that Stan was in rare form and McGaha certainly was
>out of his league on this one!

>Stan's presentation was informative, direct and to the point.
>His key points, in his introduction, I felt were a wise choice,
>and his overall delivery was superb as usual. The occasional
>quip I thought was a plus to his stage presence, and enabled
>the audience to relate to him. His summation was heartfelt, and
>by that point the audience was wholeheartedly in the Friedman
>corner.

>On the flipside I felt that McGaha was unorganized, awkward and
>nervous. Although he talked a lot about science, he didn't seem
>to provide any data, other then rehashing the same old rants
>that have been used against Ufology for decades. I found it hard
>to believe that he believed what he was saying! It was almost
>comical in the sense that he seemed to exhibit all of Friedman's
>debunking factors - and doing it while standing next to Stan:

>1). What the public doesn't know, we certainly won't tell them.

>2). My mind is made up, don't bother me with the facts.

>3). If one can't attack the data, attack the people. It is
>easier.

>4). Do one's research by proclamation rather than investigation.

>Finally, at the end during the Q & A session, it seemed that
>McGaha "morphed into a politician" as I don't believe he
>answered any questions directed toward him! At this point, it
>seemed as if McGaha didn't want to be there.


Bummer! I wanted to be the first to comment on the tape! <g>
Well -- good, the pressure's off and I'll take more time with my
own eventual critique. I'm watching it for the second time
now.....

A few words, though...

Let's face it... the right honorable Stanton (Tiberius) Friedman
leaves a smoking hole in the opposition wherever he goes (for
obvious reasons), forgetting for a moment that he refrains from
the obligatory insult that Mr. Mcgaha embraced gleefully and
repetitively... throughout... with his blithely immaterial,
completely off task, and cluelessly irrelevant contribution to
the program. Indeed, Mr. Mcgaha achieved every failure I would
have predicted for him, having twice heard Mr. Friedman in
action before.

Truly, the contest was so one-sided I was compelled to pity for
the decidedly pathetic Mr. Mcgaha. The -only- thing I say is his
defense is that is that -he- stepped up to the podium firing-
line when the *big* CSICOPian guns threw down their specious
weapons and ran like mongrel egg-sucking dogs. What say -you-,
Dr. Nickell? Et tu, Dr. Shirmer? LOL!


Lehmberg.nul

EXPLORE "AlienViewGroup" at its HostPros URL.
http://www.alienview.net


JOHN FORD RESTORATION FUND -- John will be released eventually.
He'll need a tax free cash stake to get on his feet. Let's put
one together for him; the bigger it is -- the more attention
he gets. It could have been you. E-mail for detail.
$450.00 pledged -- $200.00 collected!

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite.
What others see from afar, I leave far behind me."
- Giordano Bruno, scourged by the scabrously specious scurrilous.








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   Mar > Mar 10

                          Secrecy News -- 03/10/04

From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood.nul>
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 10:12:08 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 10:39:40 -0500
Subject: Secrecy News -- 03/10/04


SECRECY NEWS
from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy
Volume 2004, Issue No. 27
March 10, 2004


**      CRS: NEW U.S. NUKE MAY BE MORE THAN A STUDY
**      UNDERGROUND FACILITIES PROLIFERATE
**      DOE CLASSIFICATION NEWS
**      SEN. LEVIN ON IRAQ INTELLIGENCE


CRS: NEW U.S. NUKE MAY BE MORE THAN A STUDY

A sharp increase in projected spending for a new nuclear weapons
concept known as the Robust Nuclear Earth Penetrator (RNEP)
suggests that the program is more than merely a conceptual
study, according to an analysis this week from the Congressional
Research Service (CRS).

In response to public controversy over the new nuclear
initiative, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld said in May 2003
that RNEP "is a study. It is nothing more and nothing less."

But with a five year projected budget of $485 million dollars,
it now looks like something more, the CRS said.

"The FY2005 [budget] request document seems to cast serious
doubt on assertions that RNEP is only a study," wrote CRS
analyst Jonathan Medalia.

A government spokesman told CRS that the large projected
increase in spending for the new nuclear weapon was merely "an
artifact of the budget process [and] was inserted... as a
'placeholder' to protect the option of proceeding with RNEP."

See "Robust Nuclear Earth Penetrator Budget Request and Plan,
FY2005-FY2009," CRS report RS21762, March 8:

http://www.fas.org/spp/starwars/crs/RS21762.pdf

A related CRS study on "Nuclear Weapon Initiatives: Low-Yield
R&D, Advanced Concepts, Earth Penetrators, Test Readiness,"
newly updated March 8, may be found here:

http://www.fas.org/spp/starwars/crs/RL32130.pdf

Direct public access to CRS products like these is opposed by
Congressional leaders such as Rep. Bob Ney (R-OH), chair of the
House Committee on House Administration, and by CRS officials.


UNDERGROUND FACILITIES PROLIFERATE

One of the asserted justifications for a new type of earth
penetrator nuclear weapon is the proliferation of hardened
underground facilities around the world.

The JASON defense advisory group reported in a 1999 study that
"Underground facilities are being used to conceal and protect
critical activities that pose a threat to the United States."

"These include the development and storage of weapons of mass
destruction, principally nuclear, chemical, and biological
weapons. Underground facilities can also protect critical C3
installations and national leadership."

"Hundreds of underground installations have been constructed
worldwide and many more are under construction."

See "Characterization of Underground Facilities," April 1999,
here (68 pages, 3 MB):

http://www.fas.org/irp/agency/dod/jason/ugf.pdf

"Use of underground facilities (UGFs) to protect and conceal
WMD, ballistic missiles, leadership, and other activities is
expanding," DIA Director Vice Admiral Lowell E. Jacoby told the
Senate Armed Services Committee yesterday.

http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/2004_hr/030904jacoby.pdf

"In 2003, we have observed more than a dozen new military or
regime-related UGFs under construction," he said (p. 21).


DOE CLASSIFICATION NEWS

The Department of Energy has resumed publication of its
newsletter on agency classification policy after a two-year
hiatus.

The new issue of CommuniQue provides some now-stale news on the
March 2003 executive order on classification policy, along with
more informative commentary on "Identifying and Protecting
Official Use Only Information," and status reports on various
classification guides that are under development.

See the new issue of CommuniQue here:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/othergov/doe/comm0204.pdf


SEN. LEVIN ON IRAQ INTELLIGENCE

"Initiating a war on the basis of faulty or exaggerated
intelligence is a very serious matter," said Sen. Carl Levin (D-
MI) yesterday. "That's just as true if one supported the war or
not."

"The fact that the intelligence assessments before the war were
so wildly off the mark should trouble all Americans."

Sen. Levin provided an itemized list of discrepancies between
classified intelligence assessments and unclassified
presentations of intelligence, all of which tended to present
the public with an inflated assessment of the Iraqi threat, he
said.

His statement was presented at the March 9 hearing of the Senate
Armed Services Committee where DCI Tenet and DIA Director Jacoby
testified. See:

http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/2004_hr/levin030904.html


_______________________________________________
Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the
Federation of American Scientists.

To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to
 secrecy_news-request.nul
with "subscribe" in the body of the message.

OR email your request to saftergood.nul

Secrecy News is archived at:
 http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html

_______________________
Steven Aftergood
Project on Government Secrecy
Federation of American Scientists
web:www.fas.org/sgp/index.html
email: saftergood.nul
voice: (202) 454-4691








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   Mar > Mar 10

                         Re: Sleep Paralysis - Shell

From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 09:22:41 -0600
Fwd Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 10:41:10 -0500
Subject: Re: Sleep Paralysis - Shell


>From: Maurice Woolf <MauriceW.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 16:51:02 +0200
>Subject: Re: Sleep Paralysis - Woolf

>>From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 16:35:23 -0700
>>Subject: Re: Sleep Paralysis

>>>From: Kelly Freeman <Khfflsciufo.nul>
>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 12:27:46 EST
>>>Subject: Re: Identfy Friend Or Foe?

>>>I would like to give you my perspective on the "sleep
>>>paralysis" phenomenon. [...]

>>>I have never mentioned this to anyone before, because I have
>>>been trying to find some answers to these "happenings". Any
>>>feedback would be appreciated. Just keep it intelligent.

>>OK, here goes... this is really strange... and I think it might
>>be pertinent to hypnopompic/hypnogonic experiences, of which
>>sleep paralysis is a subset. Then again it may not be pertinent,
>>but it's so darn strange I just have to talk about it.

<snip>


>Is there anyone on the List who has ever seen this sphere as
>well or tried this technique to gain control over the paralysis.

Sorry, my sleep paralysis episodes concerned large, shadowy
entities and a strong urge to accomplish a complex
physical/mathematical task in order to "keep the universe
correct" (hard to explain exactly, but it makes perfect sense
when you're in a hynogogic state).

Anyway, the thing I'd like to add to the conversation is I
figured out how to trigger it! So anybody out there who has
never experienced this sort of thing can try it out -- see what
it's like. I found this out by accident when I was having kidney
stone pain. What it essentially involves is taking relatively
stong doses of ibuprofen. Two Advil Liqui-gels during the day,
then four just before you go to bed. (Don't do this if you have
an aspirin alergy of course!) It may take a few days for the
stuff to build up, but if you're like me, you'll soon be "waking
up" in the middle of the night seeing all kinds of crazy shiznit
and trying to keep the universe balanced by accurately adjusting
your pillow. It worked for me. I've since passed the stone, so I
don't take so much Advil anymore. Headaches, that's all.

I don't know what the specific mechanism might be. And it may
not work for you. On the other hand, you might have some kind of
reaction to aspirin or ibuprofen that stimulates this response.
Try it if you like. Let us know what happens. I can't imagine it
would cause anything like kidney damage unless you did it for a
long time. The makers of Advil say it doesn't have any
psychotropic effects. (heh heh) I, of course, take no
responsibility for anything.








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                      Kids Thrilled By Close Encounter

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 15:54:38 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 15:54:38 -0500
Subject: Kids Thrilled By Close Encounter




Source: The Posted Rochdale Observer - UK

http://www.rochdaleobserver.co.uk/news/index/articles/article_id=10394.html


March 9, 2004

Kids Thrilled By Close Encounter Of Mystery Kind

A group of children playing in Littleborough reckon they have
had a close encounter with a UFO.

So vivid was their experience at about 7pm on Thursday they have
started to draw what they saw.

They say the spacecraft hovered slowly just over the rooftops
for several minutes and then shot off at hyper speed.

Lindsey Stansfield, of Timbercliffe, Summit, said her sons,
Louis, aged eight, and Cameron, aged five, were playing with
friends on a trampoline outside their home when they spotted the
'extra terrestrial'.

She said: "The children saw the object flying slowly above the
houses. Some of the children thought it was triangular in shape
and others square, but it could have been to do with what angle
they saw it."

"It had red lights around the edge and yellow lights in the
middle. They rushed in to tell us about it, but the time we got
out it had gone. The children say the object had stopped above
the house behind us and then shot off in hyper drive. Later that
evening they started drawing pictures of what they had seen."

"I would like to know if anyone else in Littleborough saw the
object."

Louis said: "I looked up and saw some lights flashing in the
sky. I went in the house to get my mother, but when we went out
it had gone."

A spokesman for the National Air Traffic service said: "There
was no reported alien activity in controlled airspace that we
are aware of."

A spokeswoman for the Ministry of Defence said: "I am not aware
of any other reported sightings. We do have a UFO report line
telephone number so that people can report things which they
cannot explain."

She said sightings were checked to see if they had any defence
significance, whether the UK airspace may have been compromised
by hostile air activity. But this had not been found to be the
case.

"We believe that there are rational explanations for such
sightings such as aircraft lights or natural phenomena," she
added.


[UFO UpDates thanks Norm for the lead]








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                         Re: Sleep Paralysis - Woolf

From: Maurice Woolf <MauriceW.nul>
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 16:51:
Fwd Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 15:55:37 -0500
Subject: Re: Sleep Paralysis - Woolf


>From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 16:35:23 -0700
>Subject: Re: Sleep Paralysis

>>From: Kelly Freeman <Khfflsciufo.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 12:27:46 EST
>>Subject: Re: Identfy Friend Or Foe?

>>I would like to give you my perspective on the "sleep
>>paralysis" phenomenon. While living on Long Island, between
>>1988-90, I experienced numerous episodes where I would be lying
>>on my couch and then dozing off only to be suddenly awakened by
>>an intense electrical impulse inside the right side of my brain
>>followed by a sense of paralysis. I would try to move, but I
>>couldn't do it. Usually. these episodes would last only about 10
>>seconds or so, but it was still a little uncomfortable.

<snip>

>>I have never mentioned this to anyone before, because I have
>>been trying to find some answers to these "happenings". Any
>>feedback would be appreciated. Just keep it intelligent.

>OK, here goes... this is really strange... and I think it might
>be pertinent to hypnopompic/hypnogonic experiences, of which
>sleep paralysis is a subset. Then again it may not be pertinent,
>but it's so darn strange I just have to talk about it.

<snip>

>I don't have the slightest clue what this means...but never
>having seen a UFO, ghost, or anything, it is the strangest story
>I have to tell, and this is the first time I've ever posted
>anything about it. I guess I'm hoping someone out there has a
>similar experience to relate. Or maybe I'm hoping otherwise...

I think you and your wife were probably genetically compatible
and that could explain your similar experiences. You were chosen
for each other at age 4. Excuse my presumptuous statement, but
it is just an observation.

I have had similar experiences, I have been having sleep
paralysis episodes since childhood I am 36 now but its
diminished or disappeared since the last time it happened, as I
had made an effort to stay alert and not let the fear take hold
of me. The last time I stayed conscious I noticed a pearl
colored egg-like sphere appear above my bed and I entered this
sphere it seemed to be fluid like in its appearance once this
happened I had no further recollection. Since then, the
paralysis episodes have almost disappeared or maybe the
technique has been changed by the abductors, because of my
inquisitive behavior.

Is there anyone on the List who has ever seen this sphere as
well or tried this technique to gain control over the paralysis.


Maurice Woolf












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                   Re: Did UFO Bring Down Beagle? - Groff

From: Terry Groff <terry.nul>
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 10:06:11 -0600
Fwd Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 15:56:44 -0500
Subject: Re: Did UFO Bring Down Beagle? - Groff


>From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 10:25:28 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
>Subject: Re: Did UFO Bring Down Beagle?

>>From: Terry Groff <terry.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 12:21:16 -0600
>>Subject: Did UFO Bring Down Beagle?

>>Source: The Scotsman - Edinburgh

>>http://news.scotsman.com/latest.cfm?id=2623746

>>Mon 8 Mar 2004

>>Did UFO Bring Down Beagle?

>>European scientists are examining an image of the Beagle 2 Mars
>>lander, taken moments after it was spun off from its mother
>>ship, that also shows an unidentified object.

>>The mysterious blot on the photograph is being scrutinised as
>>one of several potential reasons for the failure of the mission
>>- Europe's first attempt to land a probe on the Red Planet.

<snip>

>>(No photos accompanied the article - Terry)

><snip>

>Hi Terry!

>Last night I did a quick search for the photo of Beagle 2 that
>shows the unidentified object referred to in the article above
>that was taken shortly after it separated from the Mars Express
>mothership.

>Could this UFO be the brightest of several star-like objects
>seen in the picture found at the Beagle 2 web site below?

>http://www.beagle2.com/resources/photo-album.htm

<snip>

>Nick Balaskas

Hi Nick,

I'm not sure which photos you're referring to. The only photo I
saw with a star-like object was one that the caption says is the
Beagle 2 itself.

http://www.beagle2.com/resources/pics/down-separation.jpg

Are there others?


Thanks

Terry








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                   Re: Hoagland's Fossil Theory - Stanford

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 15:41:19 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 16:04:18 -0500
Subject: Re: Hoagland's Fossil Theory - Stanford


>From: Chaz Stuart <Daydisk2.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 15:50:01 -0500
>Subject: Hoagland's Fossil Theory

>Don't laugh! I don't know about the "cover-up", but he does make
>a rather strong case for this fossil being a crinoid relative or
>"sea lily" stem:

>http://www.enterprisemission.com/articles/03-08-2004/crinoid_cover-up.htm

>(too many important, relevant pix to just post the text).


Strong case? In your mind, maybe, but not in mine. I went to the
webpage and read everything and examined the images. Not as bad
as George A. Filer with his allegation of Martian writing on
rock, but those Hoagland quotes are from poor observers and
interpreters because their perceptions are clearly colored by
what they want to see, in much the same way that they have
artificially colored (not calibrated, but colored) the
'blueberries' blue. Look how it distorts the balance of colors,
extremely so in one of the images.

They are as kids playing around with fake money and pretending
they are rich.

But, what's new? Hoagland has been playing that game for years
now.

And now we have George Filer playing a more extreme game without
even the play money of simulacra. His claim of finding letters
resembling ours on Martian rock is nothing short of
unadulterated fantasy. With his pretentious silliness before
reporters (as in recent days), IMO, UFO research needs no other
enemies.


Ray Stanford

"You know my method. It is founded upon the observance of trifles." --
Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery







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                       Re: UFOs & Fairies? - Dickenson

From: Ray Dickenson <editor.nul>
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 17:55:44 +0000
Fwd Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 21:17:19 -0500
Subject: Re: UFOs & Fairies? - Dickenson


>From: Steven Kaeser <steve.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 08:51:26 -0500
>Subject: Re: UFOs & Fairies?

http://www.mythinglinks.org/ct~greenmen~DanNoel.html

>I think of him more as a 'Father Nature' figure and have
>kept his image in my garden and home for years.

>This isn't to say that there isn't any sort of a link
>between mythological entities and what we today know as
>"aliens".

Steve, Thanks for the link. "Myth" word by chance brings to mind
a query on "Atlantis":

http://www.perceptions.couk.com/metamail.html#dude

and its reply "A myth is made up to explain something
significant but totally unexplainable - like all
groups/tribes/religions have their own creation link myths, and
Sun/Moon myths, and weather myths - to suit their own
circumstances."

So, coming back to your "Father Nature" figure (which is how I'd
previously seen "the green man" myself) - that would be valid
_if_ there was no nature god in the pantheon when the green man
first arose.

I'll have to re-look at Greek/Roman stuff to be sure but that
doesn't seem to be the case, and if so either the green man is a
much older "nature Myth" - or was invented to explain something
anomalous (& also very ancient).

Would Anthony Roberts and Geoff Gilbertson's "The Dark gods"
analysis

http://www.perceptions.couk.com/magic2.html#1

fit that case?

Or Alfred Russel Wallace's extraordinarily prescient thought at:


http://www.perceptions.couk.com/uef/wallace.html#beings

Cheers

Ray D

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Perceptions" http://www.perceptions.couk.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~








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                   UFO Magazine Folds After Editor's Death

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 21:28:44 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 21:28:44 -0500
Subject: UFO Magazine Folds After Editor's Death




Source: The Yorkshire Post - UK

http://www.yorkshiretoday.co.uk/viewarticle2.aspx?ArticleID=753735&SectionID=55&
Search=Birdsall&Searchtype=any&SearchSection=55&DateFrom=011995&DateTo=032004&Pa
ge=1&ReturnPage=Results.aspx

10 March 2004


UFO Magazine Folds After Editor's Death

Dave Clarke

A Yorkshire-based magazine devoted to Unidentified Flying
Objects and extraterrestrial life is to close after the sudden
death of its editor.

Graham Birdsall, a world authority on UFOs, died aged 49 in St
James's Hospital, Leeds, last September from a brain haemorrhage
after he was taken ill at his home in Colton, east Leeds. He
left a wife and three daughters.

With younger brother Mark he founded in the early 1980s the news
stand magazine empire, based at Stourton in south Leeds, which
published UFO Magazine.

The magazine went on to become the world's best-selling UFO
publication, with a readership measured in the tens of
thousands. It also staged an annual conference in Leeds.

Mr Birdsall became fascinated by UFOs in 1967 when as a boy he
saw a strange object in the sky from the garden of his home in
Leeds.

He travelled the world lecturing on the subject to enthusiasts
and frequently appeared on TV to discuss the latest sightings.

The family continued to publish the magazine after his death
with help from his son-in-law Russell Callaghan, who took over
as editor.

But yesterday Mr Birdsall's widow Christine announced that the
latest issue of the magazine, produced by Quest Publications
International Ltd, would be the last.








                         The UFO UpDates Archive
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   Mar > Mar 10

                          Filer's Files #12 - 2004

From: George A. Filer <Majorstar.nul>
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 15:13:34 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 21:52:43 -0500
Subject: Filer's Files #12 - 2004


Filer's Files #12-2004 Skywatch Investigations.
George A. Filer, Director MUFON Eastern
March 10, 2004, Webmaster: Chuck Warren --
My website is at: www.georgefiler.com/


Mars =96 The Living Planet

Since 1877, when Schiaparelli announced his discovery that a
network of straight lines covered Mars surface, this finding has
been the subject of great controversy among astronomers.
American astronomer Percival Lowell thought the lines
represented the work of intelligent beings, and interpreted them
has canals that brought water from the poles and caused green
vegetation that sprouted each spring in 60 degree weather at the
equator.

Throughout my life I have searched the ruins of ancient
civilizations in Egypt, Mexico, US, Turkey, and England.
Additionally, as an intelligence officer, I evaluated bomb
damaged sites in Vietnam. Preliminary Filer' Research Institute
findings indicate we have found evidence of an ancient
civilization on Mars. An early and non-conclusive theory
indicates an extraterrestrial settlement was destroyed most
likely by an asteroid or meteorite blasting debris out of the
Gusev Crater for several miles around with the power of an
atomic bomb.

We have nicknamed the city "Gavesak" based on some of the
letters or symbols we have found. The area is covered with
millions of rocks laying in the soil sticking up in various
angles. Some have landed on each other. Consequently, we are
looking at bits and pieces of rock that appear to be the remains
of what as once a city or temple. Although it is difficult to
determine a date this happened based on the slim evidence, all
indications are that the blast occurred thousands, if not
millions of years ago.

Gusav Crater Contains Fossils

There is the fascinating possibility that the water-laid
sediments in Gusev crater could contain fossils. In 1995, Gusev
crater was included in NASA's report, "An Exobiological Strategy
for Mars Exploration" (NASA Publication SP-530) as a priority
site for future biological exploration.

If intelligent life existed on Mars the Ma'adim Vallis, in the
southern cratered uplands, one of the largest valley networks on
the planet is an ideal place for city. There would have been
plenty of river water available from the valley that extends
some 900 kilometers, passing through the 160-km-diameter Gusev
crater at 14.7oS, 184.5oW. Younger, smaller impact craters on
the southern and northern rims of Gusev opened the pathway for
water from Ma'adim Vallis. Although some construction or
blasting could have opened the flow of the river.

The Martian climate, large amounts of water, composition of the
soils does not rule out life either past or present. It is
difficult to determine which impact caused the destruction of
"Gavesak" and the ejection of its debris around the crater.

Viking Lander Found a Letter 'B' on Mars

When the Viking Space Craft landed on Mars in 1976, it captured
images of a rock with a 'B' symbol carved into a rock. It was
dismissed because it was unlikely Martians would use our English
alphabet. Many of us thought it might be Martian, and in January
of 1977, the National Geographic came out with an article
favorable to the search for life providing data by Dr. Gerald V.
Levin one of the most brilliant scientists in the country.

Cyanobacteria Found by Microbioligist

Microbiologist Dr. Annamarie Johnstone writes, Proof that living
microorganisms exist in the soil on Mars, was found in 1976,
during the Mars Viking Lander Mission. Dr. Gerald V. Levin, came
to this conclusion after developing a successful technique,
using automated instruments, to detect microbial life that has
earthlike metabolism. In his Labeled Release Experiment of the
Lander Project, Martian soil was inoculated into sterile culture
media and incubated, to detect gas production. A circadian
(daily) rhythm of 24.66 hour gas release indicated that
microbial life exists in the top layer of the Martian surface.
The current Mars Opportunity Rover spectrographic instruments
found elevated levels of sulfur in the form of sulfates in the
Martian soil, that would indicate an abundance of available
oxygen to oxidize sulfur to this state. Photosynthetic, oxygen
producing Cyanobacteria in and on the Mars substrate may be the
source of oxygen for oxidation of sulfur, as well as iron, on
the planet.

As Cyanobacteria (Cyanophyta) increased the oxygen content of
the earth's atmosphere in the Proterozoic era, iron sediments
were oxidized into red ferric oxide, resulting in a change of
color in earth's sedimentary layers from gray to red. If like
bacteria are present on Mars, this may account for the
preponderance of red sediments on Mars, as well. Cyanobacteria
are also known as Blue Green Algae (Cyanophyta), prokaryotic
(primitive) cells lacking a nuclear membrane and some cellular
organelles. Blue and green pigments in the cells are involved in
photosynthetic metabolism. The "Blueberries" described in the
Mars Opportunity Rover report may be living Cyanobacteria
encased in a protective fungal sheath (lichens) and or
fossilized Cyanobacteria called stromatolites. The latter
develop as these bacteria initiate precipitation of calcium
carbonate in water, surrounding the bacterial colonies, and
trapping the cells in sedimentary concretions. This process
continues to occur on the earth today and may occur on Mars when
water is available. "Blueberries" in the sedimentary rock layers
of

Mars may be stromatolites. Thanks to Dr. Annamarie Johnstone,
Ph.D. owner of Aquatox, a marine environental consulting firm

The famous blueberries on Mars

Journal of Microscopy Claims Life on Mars

It is interesting to note that, "The Journal of Microscopy
announced just last week that Australian scientists believe they
have found evidence that life once existed on Mars." They have
found that microscopic fossils of primitive bacteria-like
organisms in a Mars meteorite match characteristics of bacteria
found in mud in Queensland."

Evidence of an Ancient Civilization Found

Our examination of thousands of images has led us to theorize
that we might be observing an ancient civilization similar to
the Mayan/Olmec or Egyptian Civilizations. Strangely, the
symbols and writing are very similar to English.

The symbols or letters A, E, G, H, P, V, and Y have been found.
The Y symbol is the most numerous and often has deep round holes
drilled at the three corners. This gives us a clue concerning
when the symbols may have been brought to Earth.

'Y' is not in the Phoenician alphabet, but is in the Greek
alphabet. According to the Encyclopedia Britannica the Egyptians
first developed writing very suddenly with hieroglyphics, but
with the invention of papyrus paper much was passed on to the
Phoenicians, in about the 10th century BC. The Phoenicians are
thought to have developed most of our known alphabet with 24
consonants that were then transmitted to Greece. Ezekiel records
that he saw the wheel near Babylon about 600 BC. We can
speculate that there was some form of contact at that period.

Many rocks appear to have artistic carvings and craftsman like
work in the stone. One rock appears to be the sculptured head of
a nobleman that looks very similar to depiction's of heads found
today in the Yucatan Peninsula and the ancient Maya region of
Mexico.

Notice the 'Y' at the lower right carved in stone.
 Y
Note: Side view of face similar to Mayan Photo below from
National Geographic Society "The Mysterious Maya" of similar
facial structure and head dress.

Mayan writing is quite different from that found on Mars. It is
apparent that the development of an alphabet on Mars and a
similar one here by accident is very unlikely and indicates some
sort of communication between the planets. A study or our
alphabet and the Martian one would likely reveal a time frame of
intervention. Also the carvings suggest large humanoids.

The Bible give us some hints, "God created man in his likeness."
And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of
the earth, and daughters were born unto them, that the sons of
God saw the daughters of men were fair; and they took them wives
of all which they chose. There were giants in the earth in those
days and also after that, when the sons of god came in unto the
daughters of men of renown." Genesis Chapter 6. 1,2,- 4

The faces on the Martian rocks provide a clue to the origin of
some races on Earth. They remind me of the classic features on
the Olmec or Maya natives in Mexico, Belize, and Guatemala. When
I visited Mexico, I noticed the sloped back heads, large wide
noses and lips on many of the Mayan people. Some of the
construction debris also reminds me of much of the stone
construction throughout the ancient Middle East. I suggest
caution, because a great deal more study is needed to confirm
these preliminary findings.

Notice the square hole found in several stones to stabilize
construction and possible face.

We get some interesting confirmation from the story of creation
of the Mayas contained in "The Code of the Kings," book by Linda
Schele and Peter Mathews. "The third Creation was destroyed by a
great flood on earth. When the Maize Gods arrived at the place
of the new Creation, they sprang up from a crack in the back of
a Cosmic Turtle." The Maya saw this turtle as the three stars
that we call Orion's Belt, and they also saw the crack in the
turtle's back as the ball court. Once reborn, the Maize Gods
directed four old gods to set up the first Hearth of Creation to
center the new order. The gods set up this hearth on 13.0.0.0.
or August 13, 3114 B.C." page 37

So the Maya's and scholars claim a connection. We continue to
gather proof of a former civilization on Mars and urge your
input. We urgently need archeologists, biologists, zoologists
and people with similar expertise.

JPL/NASA has informed us that since there was no chance of life on
Mars, they do not have expertise in these fields of life.
Additionally, there are no tests for life contained on the Mars
Rovers. Their $800 million purpose for the landings was to find
water and they have accomplished their mission.

Both Cosmonauts and Astronauts such as Edgar Mitchell who walked on
the moon are making pronouncements that the Earth has been
visited by extraterrestrials. See:
http://www.sptimes.com/2004/02/18/Neighborhoodtimes/Astronaut__W
e_ve_had_.shtml


ANCIENT OLMECS HAD CELESTIAL NAVIGATION FORMULAS

Astronaut Gordon Cooper in his book "A Leap of Faith" tells the
reader his strong views on the existence of extraterrestrial
intelligence and even the distinct possibility that we have
already had contact." His photographic team at Edwards Air Force
Base photographed a landing of a disc craft. Astronaut Gordon
Cooper in his book states, "During my final years with NASA, I
became involved in a different kind of adventure: undersea
treasure hunting in Mexico. One day, accompanied by a National
Geographic photographer, we landed in a small plane on an island
in the Gulf of Mexico; local residents pointed out to them
pyramid-shaped mounds, where they found ruins, artifacts and
bones. I contacted the

Mexican government and was put in touch with the head of the
National Archaeology Department, Pablo Bush Romero." Together
with Mexican archeologists the two went back to the site. After
some excavating,

Cooper writes, "The age of the ruins was confirmed at 3000 B.C.

Compared with other advanced civilizations, relatively little
was known about the Olmecs who made large statues of their
faces." "Engineers, farmers, artisans, and traders, the Olmecs
had a remarkable civilization.

But it is still not known where they originated... Among the
findings that intrigued me most: that, when translated, turned
out to be mathematical formulas used to this day for navigation,
and accurate drawings of constellations, some of which would not
be officially 'discovered' until the age of modern telescopes.
"It was this, rather than his experiences as an astronaut, that
triggered Gordon Cooper's "Leap of faith":

"This left me wondering: Why have celestial navigation signs if
they weren't navigating celestially?" And he asks: "If 'someone'
had helped the Olmecs with this knowledge, from whom did they
get it?"

Thanks to Gordon Cooper's book, "A Leap of Faith"Chapter 11

Sea Lilly's on Mars

Jason Lange writes, "I'm very familiar with fossils found in
Colorado, and the fossils are shown are Crinoids (sea lillys)
they are very common here on earth and I've seen thousands.
There are many different types. They are found where a body of
water once existed. If this is a crinoid like I believe it is,
then there was life on Mars." Thanks to Jason Lange (Grand
Junction Colorado)

Others See Faces on Mars

Mr. Filer, First, I must congratulate you on your excellent
site at: ww.georgefiler.com/ . I came upon it by surfing and
spent a good hour perusing your links and articles. Something
became quite apparent to me upon first viewing, and I am
wondering if you have noticed it as well. In your fourth picture
down in the main page (ET Rock), I noticed a distinctly alien
face. I don't have Photoshop, and I cannot outline the face on
the picture as I see it, so I will try to describe it as best as
I can. Maybe you will be able to outline it.  Let's imagine the
E Rock is a gerbil facing left. You can see it's snout and the
ear, laying against its body, the buttocks resting on the
ground. If you look where the eye would be you can see a dark
oval/round shape that can work as an eye. Above the dark
oval/round shape you see a smaller bean-sized dark shape (maybe
70% NE from the shape and directly above it). Above from this
shape, to the right and some 60% NE from the kidney bean shape
we can see a shape that looks like an eye.  Ok, so take the
eye, the kidney bean shape, which looks like a nose, and the
dark oval/round shape, which looks like a gaping mouth, and you
have a distinct alien face. The right eye is missing, but the
alien appearance is very obvious to me. Glaring.Thanks to
Acriedel. Please visit my weblog at:
http://www.livejournal.com/users/acriedel

IMAGE OF TREES, FOREST, STREAM AND OTHER OBJECTS

Engineer Norman Bryden writes, "Here are the links to the full
image of the forest and other objects. Put this image on a
large screen TV and look at the many objects in the image. There
are fallen trees, live ones and many structures. Thanks to Norm
stonesnorm.nul

http://www.msss.com/moc_gallery/e07_e12/images/E10/E1001841.html

Conceding that Mars has the chemistry necessary for life is
tantamount to an open invitation for microbiologists to join
JPL's zealously guarded ranks. For scientists supposedly
enamored with "searching for life" on the Red Planet, the JPL
team has always been careful to exclude the life sciences from
its post-Viking Mars ventures that cost close to a billion
dollars. Neither of the rovers has any life-detection
instrumentation nor do future probes have instruments for
detecting life. I urge Dr.Charles Elachi Director Jet Propulsion
Laboratory to look at some of these images that appear as
present vegetation, trees, and a possible river on Mars.

Note: We need experts in life sciences and archeology.

New York =96 Flying Triangle and Huge UFO

NYACK -- When crossing the Tappan Zee bridge on February 21,
2004, at 3 PM, my wife snapped photos of the area because she
though it would be a nice place to buy a house. I downloaded the
pictures and to my surprise there was some thing in the picture
that shouldn't have been there. UFOcenter

New York City (Brooklyn) -- A magazine/book editor and writer
was walking down Pacific Street in Brooklyn, on February 14,
2004, about 7:30 PM, when he saw a glowing whitish neon-green
orb shoot through the sky, going south west, faintly lighting up
the night. He reports, "I stopped in my tracks as it moved as
fast as a shooting star, straight on the horizon, about 30,000
feet but it was huge." The size of tennis ball at arm's length,
perfectly spherical, and it left a trail in its wake. It receded
as it moved away from me in a straight line, and then vanished
into the darkness. "I've never seen anything like it before in
my life!" Thanks to Peter Davenport UFOcenter


Delaware -Circular Lights

NEWCASTLE -- Every night you can see this round object in the
sky that only moves slightly in the vicinity o Newcastle Air
Base. Sometimes it will move real fast. Other times you can see
military planes circling around it, usually when it is lower.
You can definitely tell it is not a plane, star, or anything
that is a common sight on a daily basis. On February 28, 2004,
at 6 PM, we saw it. You can see it best, when there are clouds
in the sky and there are no stars visible to the eye. Sometimes
it will vanish suddenly. but it is very suspicious. UFOcenter

Florida =96 Lights and Flying Triangle

NOKOMIS The object appeared to be over the Gulf of Mexico on
February 11, 2004, at 8 PM. At first there were three lights
with rays of light above and below. Then two sets of three
smaller lights appeared between the three lights. It began
vertical and depending where you stood it was horizontal or at
varying degrees turned. There were up to 21 lights. I called the
police and an officer witnessed this as well. He called in a
helicopter and when it was headed in the direction of the lights
they disappeared only to return within five minutes. We saw them
in the same location from night fall until 8 PM, so for three
other nights and then we returned from our vacation. UFOcenter

FT. WALTON BEACH - A craft was hovering over an area at the edge
of Eglin Air Force base runway on February 13, 2004, at 9:30 PM.
The craft was triangular with bright lights at bottom and
maneuvered up and down and side ways with absolutely no sound
and appeared to be about the size of a Stealth. The craft was
either on or near the air base and was sighted by someone who is
very familiar with that area. I am convinced the Air Force had
to have known about this craft or was responsible for it.
Perhaps the reason so many UFO sightings are in the Panama City
area. Thanks to Peter Davenport UFOcenter

Alabama - Fireball Like the Shuttle Explosion!

HARTSELLE - A couple was leaving their parents house on February
22, 2004, at 8:05 PM, when they noticed the brightest object
they had ever seen in the sky. It traveled across the sky in a
northwestern trajectory. The witnesses commented, "It was almost
identical to the footage of the recent shuttle explosion and we
saw it burning entering the Earth's atmosphere with the longest
tail we have ever seen. " We watched the last meteor shower in
its entirety and never saw anything resembling this!" It
traveled about 10 feet then exploded. After that it traveled
about 25 more feet and exploded again and the show was over. My
father-in-law works for NASA and has confirmed no humans in
space at that time with the exception of the space station which
moved over head thirty minutes earlier. He contributes this to
falling space debris.Thanks to Peter Davenport UFOcenter

Ohio - Silver Metallic Wingless Cigar

LYNDHURST -- Driving north on Brainard road, just before
Mayfield on February 11, 2004, at 8:22 AM, the witness noticed a
long, silver object about 50 degrees above horizon. He was
stopped at a traffic light and realized the object had no wings
or tail assembly. It was 1/2 inch in length at arm's length with
high reflectivity and one dark spot midway on the body. The
object kept a constant side on view, rapidly receded away to the
north in less than five seconds and disappeared. It did not bank
and turn, there was no vapor trail, I heard no sound. Thanks to
Peter Davenport UFOcenter

Oklahoma =96 Saucers and Three Bright Lights Hovering

SALLISAW =96 The observers saw a very bright light in the
southwest sky on February 14, 2004, about 7:30 PM, that seemed
to be hovering at a low altitude. They state, "We began to look
around and saw two more, one to the east, and the other to the
west. We got our binoculars out to get a better look and saw a
saucer shaped object, it was very large. The object seemed to
have very bright lights in quarter sections around it. The
lights were fire red, purple, orange and a light green color.
 The other two were the same but smaller. the one in the
southwest was lowering itself slowly to the ground as it did it
turned triangular shaped and all we could see was a fire red
color with clear, bright light glowing around it. It went down
into the side of a mountain. Then we started looking at the
other two. They moved back and forth and up and down then they
just disappeared. Thanks to Peter Davenport UFOcenter

Texas - Disc Shaped Object

ALEDO -- At about 5:00 PM, the witness spotted something outside
on February 27, 2004, at 5:30 PM, asked his family about a high
flying object. The second witness went outside and looked up to
see an object floating along at a leisurely pace. The object
would waiver back and forth showing that it was a flat disc. I
watched it for about 10 minutes before it floated quite high and
became very hard to see. I wouldn't be reporting this except for
the fact that this object seemed to be rather large, and it was
a disc shape. There were no lights at all on the object, no
sound, and it had a shiny metallic skin. I "think" there was a
design on the flat face of the object, but I couldn't make it
out. Thanks to Peter Davenport UFOcenter

Washington -- Three Hovering Sparkling Objects

SEATTLE -- While taking a walk on Capitol Hill overlooking
Downtown waterfront on February 29, 2004, at 11:20 PM, the
witnesses noticed a rapidly sparkling object in the sky. It had
no FAA strobe pattern and was sparkling at a rapid pace changing
colors all the while. It would change colors from a bright
white to yellow, blue, bright red, and green which could be seen
just before it dimmed. We watched it for almost an hour hoping
it would move or do something but all it did was hover in the
same spot. No star field was visible this night and it was too
close and bright to be a star.

I must say that we saw two other objects that matched the
description of the main object, but the two other ones were
farther away and disappeared from view. I am not sure if they
flew away in the opposite direction to us or if they literally
disappeared. They were in a row stretching out to the west.

Thanks to Peter Davenport UFOcenter

Canada =96 Flying Disco Light

CALGARY =96 The witness, a business owner, was facing west and
noticed a strange very high pitched sound. I looked up and saw
what appeared to be a helicopter with a flashing red tail light
on February 12, 2004, at 2:3O AM. It made no sound as it
circled about 150 meters over my roof in about a half kilometer
radius around the neighborhood. It circled counterclockwise 3
times going over the roof out of sight each time. I also could
not see any of the fuselage except for a faint half-circle that
I guess was the front. Then suddenly, just before it disappeared
over the roof for the third time a rectangular pulsing-strobe
light fired up under the half-circle and it was also
multicolored. The hair on my neck stood up and I ran to get my
binoculars. Disappointingly, I had no film for my camera. It
circled two more times over the house but did not fire its
strange light. Another very weird thing, when I looked at it
through the binocs I could not make out any details of the
fusalage. Thanks to Brian Vike CANADA HBCC Research

Caribbean Cruise - Not Planes But UFOs

Cozumel, Mexico - A group of observers were on a Royal Caribbean
cruise ship, the Navigator of the Seas.The witness states, "I
was celebrating my 15th birthday and we got out of the disco for
teens around 3:50 AM, on February 14, 2004, when my friends and
my chaperons saw three bright lights." They were white, they
weren't moving and were positioned on a diagonal line. We
thought they were planes, but they didn't move and they didn't
have lights like a plane. We were over water so there wasn't
any land nearby and they didn't make sounds like a plane. Then,
we thought they were lights on an island but there were no
islands. They weren't satellites because they were too close to
the ocean. (The day before we left Cozumel, we heard of many
sightings in Mexico.) After a while the first UFO, the lowest
one took off, colored lights turned on and it disappeared. The
second lowest UFO took off the same way and there was no sound
and no trail Finally, the third one took off the same way and
we were really scared!! That's when I realized that maybe those
stories about UFO's could be true. Thanks to Peter Davenport
UFOcenter

UK/England =96 Cigar Shaped UFO

CHELMSFORD -- The 5 craft hovered in a triangle shape and then
seemed to freeze, and then the craft sped off without a trace on
February 13, 2004, at 3 PM. The craft were fully visible and
were quite low, the bottom side of the craft each had a black
circle on the bottom. They sounded like a cross between a lawn
mower and a vacuum cleaner. Inside the house all radios had a
strange chatter on them which stopped when the craft went away.
When the craft left there was a light red trail which hung
around for about 10 minutes. Before the craft left little black
dots (like spores) fell to earth

NEWCASTLE UPON TYNE --- Three friends were standing on the
bridge on February 12, 2004, at 12:43 PM, when all of a sudden a
long shaped craft appeared. It had a white flashing light in
the center which was surrounded by six to eight blue lights. It
stayed still, then disappeared off into the sky again. ((NUFORC
Note: Date is approximate. PD))


Poland -Three Flying Triangles Moving Fast

WARSAW -- We were going home with my friends taking a shortcut
by the forest on February 21, 2004, at 2 PM; suddenly we saw
three triangle shaped aircraft moving from south to north at a
terrific speed. We heard a little bit strange sound; it was
something like an electrical transformer or high voltage
converter. Two of these flying triangles had four lights, and
three of them were in the corners of the triangular shape
vehicles and had blue color. One light was at the center of the
plane/ship with a red/orange color and was pulsing. The third
ship was bigger than those two described above and had more
lights located at the edges. The objects were flying in 'V'
formation and were looking marvelous... I'll never forget this
night. ((NUFORC Note: Report appears to have been submitted from
Poland. PD)) Thanks to Peter Davenport UFOcenter

For This Research To Continue Your Support Is Critical

Dear Readers - Filer's Files has been brought to you free on a
weekly basis for seven years. As of January 2004, I'm requesting
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Filer's Files is copyrighted 2004 by George A. Filer, all rights
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   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   Mar > Mar 11

                   Re: Depressing But Instructive - Harney

From: John Harney <magonia.nul>
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 21:20:28 -0000
Fwd Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 08:38:21 -0500
Subject: Re: Depressing But Instructive - Harney


>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 13:54:40 +0000
>Subject: Re: Depressing But Instructive

>>From: John Harney <magonia.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 17:58:39 -0000
>>Subject: Re: Depressing But Instructive

>>"I can't believe _that_!" said Alice.

>>"Can't you?" the Queen said in a pitying tone. "Try again: draw a
>>long breath and shut your eyes."

>>Alice laughed. "There's no use trying," she said: "one _can't_
>>believe impossible things."

>>"I dare say you haven't had much practice, " said the Queen.
>>"When I was your age, I always did it for half an hour a day.
>>Why, sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things
>>before breakfast."

>>-- Lewis Carroll, "Through the Looking-Glass"


>Ironically, the late Isabel Davis used to quote that exact
>dialogue to characterize what skeptibunkers believe in
>preference to facing up to reality:

Reality?

>such things as high
>altitude, high-speed pelicans;

The Kenneth Arnold sighting? The pelican hypothesis is one of
several suggested explanations. Of course the the chief
objection to it is that one needs to assume that Arnold's
estimates of speeds and distances were very inaccurate.

>hot-air balloons that leave deep
>imprints on the ground and scare the pants off a cop;

Socorro?

>fireballs
>that persist for many minuites, stop, hover, maneuver.

Examples, please.

>Phil Klass used to cite a person who lived in Socorro and didn't
>see the object land, therefore it didn't happen. Do you believe
>that too? The people NIDS interviewed were not the cops on the
>scene (a la other people on the same deck of the ship).

The argument here is about whether this person was in a position
to see or hear the object reported by Zamora. There appears to
be some disagreement about this. So far as the hot-air balloon
explanation is concerned, I would refer you to my posting of
last December:

http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2003/dec/m03-005.shtml

The people interviewed by NIDS were senior officers, including
the base commander. They would hardly have remained ignorant of
such an incident. They did not refuse to comment; they denied
any knowledge of such an incident. So, either the witness you
interviewed a number of times is a liar, or they are liars. Not
a very nice situation.

When all else fails, play the secrecy card. That's what you do
in this case, but apparently heedless of what that implies. If
an ET emerged from a spacecraft, was shot and its body was
recovered for examination, then the implication is that those
responsible for dealing with the matter would be so utterly
stupid and so crassly irresponsible as to attempt to keep it
secret, knowing that if such an event could happen at McGuire
AFB a similar event could happen anywhere at any time. It's
strange, isn't it, how such events seem to happen only in places
where they can quickly be dealt with by the US Air Force?

><snip>

>>You don't suspend judgement in the account of it on your
>>website; you insist that it's authentic. Hardly a "cautious and
>>conservative approach" to such an extravagantly bizarre story.

>Try reading it again, John, as a test of your reading
>comprehension. I pointed out quite plainly that my conclusion
>was only a personal coinviction, and repeated that on this List.
>I also made it quite clear that I could not prove the case, but
>felt that it is authentic. What does "conservative" mean to you?
>Assuming that a case or event is false because you can't offer
>absolute physical proof of it?

>"Extravagantly bizarre" on what basis other than your overt
>prejudice and unwilingness to suspend judgment since your magic
>buttons reveal that it is untrue? Look in the mirror, John, and
>you will see a firmly closed mind apparently incapable of
>careful judgment, lacking awareness of nuance, ignorant of the
>protocols of scientific method. It is my hypothesis that the
>case is genuine. Dispute my hypothesis all you wish, but don't
>claim magic avenues to ultimate truth.

What you call "awareness of nuance" I would call the ability to
suffer fools gladly. Also I am well aware of the "protocols of
scientific method", having spent my career in the strictly
scientific environment of the Meteorological Office. I also
studied for a BA degree in my spare time, which included courses
on the history and philosophy of science.


John Harney








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                  Re: Did UFO Bring Down Beagle? - Balaskas

From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul>
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 17:34:30 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
Fwd Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 08:39:36 -0500
Subject: Re: Did UFO Bring Down Beagle? - Balaskas


>From: Terry Groff <terry.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 10:06:11 -0600
>Subject: Re: Did UFO Bring Down Beagle?

>>From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 10:25:28 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
>>Subject: Re: Did UFO Bring Down Beagle?

<snip>

>>Last night I did a quick search for the photo of Beagle 2 that
>>shows the unidentified object referred to in the article above
>>that was taken shortly after it separated from the Mars Express
>>mothership.

>>Could this UFO be the brightest of several star-like objects
>>seen in the picture found at the Beagle 2 web site below?

>>http://www.beagle2.com/resources/photo-album.htm

<snip>

>I'm not sure which photos you're referring to. The only photo I
>saw with a star-like object was one that the caption says is the
>Beagle 2 itself.

>http://www.beagle2.com/resources/pics/down-separation.jpg

>Are there others?

<snip>

Hi Terry!

If you go to the web site below

http://www.beagle2.com/resources/photo-album.htm

look for and click on 'Descent' which is found below the heading
'Photo Album' on the left of the page. This will take you to the
next page.

Download the picture of Beagle2 in space (the first one at the
top of the page) so that the image fills much of the screen of
your computer monitor. You will then notice two faint stars(?)
of equal brightness close together near the middle of the
picture. Below them and just to the right of the ESA logo you
will also see a much brighter elongated star-like object. Could
this be the same unidentified object near Beagle 2 that was
mentioned in the article?

It should be possible to identify all three of these star-like
objects if they were indeed stars. I suspect they are nothing
more than spacecraft debris floating in space after Beagle 2
separated from the Mars Express mothership - very much like the
debris that floats out of the Space Shuttle after the cargo bay
doors are opened (and sometimes leads to reports of UFOs in
space near the shuttle).

Of course, we do not know the density of particles, including
very small asteroids, in the vicinity of Mars (some believe that
the two small moons of Mars are just temporarily captured
asteroids, two of many more such objects in this region of the
solar system). Could such a very small but fast moving space
rock (just like the elongated star-like object in the picture
near Beagle 2?) have collided with the Mars lander on the final
leg of its journey to the Red Planet?

I would like to know if there are more than just this picture of
Beagle 2 take from Mars Express which should help us determine
if these star-like objects are stars, space debris, small
asteroids or possibly even UFOs.


Nick Balaskas







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                Re: Kids Thrilled By Close Encounter - Boone

From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 21:36:47 EST
Fwd Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 09:34:46 -0500
Subject: Re: Kids Thrilled By Close Encounter - Boone


>From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>To: <- UFO UpDates Subscribers ->
>Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 15:54:38 -0500
>Subject: UFO UpDate: Kids Thrilled By Close Encounter

>Source: The Posted Rochdale Observer - UK

>http://www.rochdaleobserver.co.uk/news/index/articles/article_id=10394.html


>March 9, 2004

>Kids Thrilled By Close Encounter Of Mystery Kind

>A group of children playing in Littleborough reckon they have
>had a close encounter with a UFO.

>So vivid was their experience at about 7pm on Thursday they have
>started to draw what they saw.

>They say the spacecraft hovered slowly just over the rooftops
>for several minutes and then shot off at hyper speed.

>Stansfield, of Timbercliffe, Summit, said her sons,
>Louis, aged eight, and Cameron, aged five, were playing with
>friends on a trampoline outside their home when they spotted the
>'extra terrestrial'.

>She said: "The children saw the object flying slowly above the
>houses. Some of the children thought it was triangular in shape
>and others square, but it could have been to do with what angle
>they saw it."

>"It had red lights around the edge and yellow lights in the
>middle. They rushed in to tell us about it, but the time we got
>out it had gone. The children say the object had stopped above
>the house behind us and then shot off in hyper drive. Later that
>evening they started drawing pictures of what they had seen."

<snip>

Well now! Sure does sound familiar doesn't it? Thought I was
reading a column from a NY State newspaper.


Best,

Greg








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   Mar > Mar 11

                         CIA Refuses To Talk Turkey

From: Larry W. Bryant <overtci.nul>
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 23:24:08 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 09:42:29 -0500
Subject: CIA Refuses To Talk Turkey


Cia Refuses To Talk Turkey... Falls On Its Sword Of Silence

[LWB Observation: "Freedom of (official) information becomes an
empty phrase whenever the Powers that Be decide (1) to stonewall
a person's requested access, and/or (2) to retaliate against his
right to discuss/disseminate/publish that information." -- Larry
W. Bryant (March 10, 2004); from his Introduction to "The Book
of IMO (Innumerable Missed Opportunities)."]

[LWB Note: The following CIA letter to me of Jan. 20, 2004,
contains little to surprise the casual observer, but much to
convince the seasoned UFO researcher-activist that the Agency
continues to prefer having it both ways: i.e., to publicly
downplay the intelligence/scientific value of hard-core UFO-
 encounter reports while privately marshaling CIA resources
toward collecting, analyzing, exploiting, and concealing all
relevant political and technological information. Why would any
foreign country -- including Turkey (the subject of my FOIA
request of June 27, 2003, for all CIA records pertaining to the
Agency's alleged solicitation of, and receipt of, certain UFO
data from the Turkish intelligence agency -- MIT) -- feel it
necessary or advisable to help fuel a CIA agenda so lacking in
public oversight, insight, and debate?]

-----

Dear Mr. Bryant:

Reference: F-2003-01199

This is in response to your letter dated 5 August 2003 in which
you appealed the 24 July 2003 determination of this Agency in
response to your 27 June 2003 Freedom of Information Act request
for the following: "a copy of all CIA-generated and CIA-
received records pertaining to the transmittal of UFO-related
MIT information, along with any and all other records revealing
CIA UFO-related solicitations directed to, coordinated with, and
fulfilled by other intelligence services/operations conducted by
foreign governments...."

Specifically, you appealed our determination to neither confirm
nor deny the existence or nonexistence of records pertaining to
these records.

The Agency Release Panel has considered your appeal and has
determined that the Agency can neither confirm nor deny the
existence or nonexistence of records responsive to your request
on the basis of Freedom of Information Act exemptions (b)(1) and
(b)(3).  Therefore, in accordance with Agency regulations, the
Agency Release Panel has denied your appeal. For your
information, Agency regulations are set forth in part 1900 of
title 32 of the Code of Federal Regulations.

In accordance with the provisions of the Freedom of Information
Act, you have the right to seek judicial review of this
determination in a United States district court.

We appreciate your patience while your appeal was being
considered.

Sincerely,

Herbert O. Briick --
Vice Chairman, Agency Release Panel








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                        Re: Sleep Paralysis - Seguin

From: Trevor Seguin <h0riz0n.nul>
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 21:48:21 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 09:44:04 -0500
Subject: Re: Sleep Paralysis - Seguin


>From: Maurice Woolf <MauriceW.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 16:51:02 +0200
>Subject: Re: Sleep Paralysis - Woolf

>>From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 16:35:23 -0700
>>Subject: Re: Sleep Paralysis

>>>From: Kelly Freeman <Khfflsciufo.nul>
>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 12:27:46 EST
>>>Subject: Re: Identfy Friend Or Foe?

>I have had similar experiences, I have been having sleep
>paralysis episodes since childhood I am 36 now but its
>diminished or disappeared since the last time it happened, as I
>had made an effort to stay alert and not let the fear take hold
>of me. The last time I stayed conscious I noticed a pearl
>colored egg-like sphere appear above my bed and I entered this
>sphere it seemed to be fluid like in its appearance once this
>happened I had no further recollection. Since then, the
>paralysis episodes have almost disappeared or maybe the
>technique has been changed by the abductors, because of my
>inquisitive behavior.

>Is there anyone on the List who has ever seen this sphere as
>well or tried this technique to gain control over the paralysis.

>Maurice Woolf

Maurice, I have had _very_ similar experiences while meditating
and astral projecting. I have been practicing meditative
techniques for a little of 8 years and I have had many, almost
identical experiences to the one mentioned above.

What you speak of is in my opinion a technique employed to
remove your consciousness from your physical body. This for me
is done while very near sleep I retain my conscious thought and
let my body complete it shut down sequence. It starts like deep
relaxation, followed by those intense "falls" brought on by
muscle spasms, then on to a weird feeling somewhat like waking
up after fainting. At this point I sometimes get an electrified
feeling in my mouth followed by a taste of metal.

Then I either fall completely to sleep or I am able to focus on
objects/thoughts that are inside my brain quite clearly, several
of which are slightly egg shape spheres, one of which being
pearly in colour. I attempt to manipulate them in anyway I begin
to feel a sense of weightlessness. And if I am able to travel
towards or "into" them I will leave my body and be in dream like
state completely alert.

Now in this state. My physical body is _COMPLETELY_ paralysed
thank the lord because I am no longer paying attention to it and
if it got up and jumped into the fireplace and light a match I
would not know. ;p But I am able to move freely around my
surroundings and think at a heightened level of clarity. No I am
not convinced that these experiences are the same phenomena But
in the end I think this is a very similar experiences and should
be researched or discussed in a similar forum.

The thing is if I can do this manually. I am sure other people,
Alien, ghost, or human being can probably trigger a very similar
state/response remotely.


Trevor Seguin








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                Re: UFO Magazine Folds After Editor's Death -

From: Joe McGonagle <joe.mcgonagle.nul>
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 08:38:52 -0000
Fwd Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 09:46:39 -0500
Subject: Re: UFO Magazine Folds After Editor's Death -


With the sad demise of UFO Magazine (UK), I would like to appeal
to the previous readership and contributors to support Flying
Saucer Review. I gather that they are also finding it difficult
to compete with the internet, cable TV, etc.

If everyone that used to buy UFO magazine or wrote articles for
it did the same for FSR, FSR may make it to the shelves of the
national magazine outlets.

I am unhappy with the standard of many of the recent (and I mean
10 years!) issues, there seems to be a lack of contributors. FSR
has also lost it's editor recently, and there was some
discussion at one time of a merger with UFO Magazine. If
everyone lends support to FSR, perhaps we can regain a
news-stand UFO journal?

If anyone wants to take out a subscription, you can do so on-
line at:

http://www.fsr.org.uk/

Also, I recently received a CD from FSR with scanned copies of
their first 17 issues (1955-57). I shall be writing a (very
positive!) review of this shortly. It can also be bought at the
bargain price (in my opinion) of =A313 (I don't remember whether
or not that included postage, I suspect not). Bear in mind that
original copies of these issues would definitely cost in excess
of L100, possibly as much as L400!


Joe








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                               UFO Magazine UK

From: A. J. Gevaerd - Revista UFO <gevaerd.nul>
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 07:27:48 -0300
Fwd Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 11:23:51 -0500
Subject: UFO Magazine UK


From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
To: <- UFO UpDates Subscribers ->
Date: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 11:28 PM
Subject: UFO UpDate: UFO Magazine Folds After Editor's Death


>Source: The Yorkshire Post - UK

>http://www.yorkshiretoday.co.uk/viewarticle2.aspx?ArticleID=753735&SectionID=55
&Search=Birdsall&Searchtype=any&SearchSection=55&DateFrom=011995&DateTo=032004&P
age=1&ReturnPage=Results.aspx

>10 March 2004

>UFO Magazine Folds After Editor's Death

>Dave Clarke

>A Yorkshire-based magazine devoted to Unidentified Flying
>Objects and extraterrestrial life is to close after the sudden
>death of its editor.

>Graham Birdsall, a world authority on UFOs, died aged 49 in St
>James's Hospital, Leeds, last September from a brain haemorrhage
>after he was taken ill at his home in Colton, east Leeds. He
>left a wife and three daughters.

>With younger brother Mark he founded in the early 1980s the news
>stand magazine empire, based at Stourton in south Leeds, which
>published UFO Magazine.

<snip>

Dear Friends and Colleagues:

I am terribly sorry to hear about UFO Magazine UK's  demise. But
not surprised. Being a UFO editor myself, for 20 years, I know
what it takes to keep a magazine functioning. I was a friend of
Graham Birdsall's and have lectured many times at his
conferences. I count his daughters and wife, his brother Mark
and son-in-law Russell as friend. I have absolutely no doubt
that all of them struggled and worked extremely hard to keep UFO
Magazine UK alive, and it must have indeed been too much of a
demanding task.

UFO Magazine UK was Graham's life project. It was Graham's
devotion and obsession to present the world with a fine magazine
on UFOs like we have never seen before - and maybe won't see
again! Graham managed to engage his family in his project. So
the girls, Russel and Christine also gave much of themselves to
make the magazine be what it was. But, again, it was Graham's
life project. He was "intended" to do so with his life. I met
the man in several countries and exchanged a lot with him. I am
proud to say that I admired him enormously and will keep doing
so.

In Brazil, where I live, editing a UFO Magazine is also a tough
job. Maybe even harder than in the USA and UK. Things in the
economy of my country are really trying and extremely demanding.
To keep any kind of project alive here one must have lots of
energy. And certainly, to keep a UFO magazine alive here is even
much more complicated and difficult. Even so, I have managed to
keep it running for almost 20 years now. My magazine - which is
the oldest news stand UFO publication in the world and I guess
the largest circulation, of 44 thousand per month - has broken 3
times, but while I remained alive, I managed to reconstruct it
and rebuild it in every of these sad moments.

Like UFO Magazine UK, Brazilian UFO Magazine is my life project.
And those who've met me know how seriously I operate to keep it
alive and running. We once had a staff of 12 and a lot of
resources. But due to the severe economic crisis we are facing
in Brazil (doesn't matter under which what government we are, we
always have crisis!), we are now reduced to 6. Like UFO Magazine
UK, my family is engaged in helping me to keep my life's
project. My daughter, son and girlfriend are also members of my
staff. I often wonder when I'll have to bring my cat in to work
with us.....

Well, with these lines I intended to tell to you all, wherever
you live and whatever you do in and around Ufology, that the
idea of launching and keeping a UFO magazine is hardly a
profitable business. It is barely a business. Rather, it is more
like a passion that you have to work out, no matter what. Graham
did so, working madly to keep the magazine running, day and
night, seven days a week, with the help of his family - as do I.
His life project is my life project, and as long as I am alive,
Brazilian UFO Magazine will be running. After I die, I do not
know.....


A. J. Gevaerd







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                   Re: Did UFO Bring Down Beagle? - Groff

From: Terry Groff <terry.nul>
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 09:06:41 -0600
Fwd Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 12:54:54 -0500
Subject: Re: Did UFO Bring Down Beagle? - Groff


>From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 17:34:30 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
>Subject: Re: Did UFO Bring Down Beagle?


>>From: Terry Groff <terry.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 10:06:11 -0600
>>Subject: Re: Did UFO Bring Down Beagle?

>>>From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul>
>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 10:25:28 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
>>>Subject: Re: Did UFO Bring Down Beagle?

><snip>

>>>Last night I did a quick search for the photo of Beagle 2 that
>>>shows the unidentified object referred to in the article above
>>>that was taken shortly after it separated from the Mars Express
>>>mothership.

>>>Could this UFO be the brightest of several star-like objects
>>>seen in the picture found at the Beagle 2 web site below?

>>>http://www.beagle2.com/resources/photo-album.htm

><snip>

>>I'm not sure which photos you're referring to. The only photo I
>>saw with a star-like object was one that the caption says is
the
>>Beagle 2 itself.

>>http://www.beagle2.com/resources/pics/down-separation.jpg

>>Are there others?

><snip>

>Hi Terry!

>If you go to the web site below

>http://www.beagle2.com/resources/photo-album.htm

>look for and click on 'Descent' which is found below the heading
>'Photo Album' on the left of the page. This will take you to the
>next page.

>Download the picture of Beagle2 in space (the first one at the
>top of the page) so that the image fills much of the screen of
>your computer monitor. You will then notice two faint stars(?)
>of equal brightness close together near the middle of the
>picture. Below them and just to the right of the ESA logo you
>will also see a much brighter elongated star-like object. Could
>this be the same unidentified object near Beagle 2 that was
>mentioned in the article?

Thanks Nick,

Unfortunately we are dealing with yet another digital image off
of the internet.

I blew up the elongated object at the bottom of the page and (to
me) it appears to actually be two objects with a slightly
smaller object in front of the other.

http://terrygroff.com/ufotools/images/down-separation_bu.jpg

1000% B-Spline Resample


Does anyone else see this?

Terry








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                   Re: Hoagland's Fossil Theory - Balaskas

From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul>
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 11:52:38 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
Fwd Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 12:55:47 -0500
Subject: Re: Hoagland's Fossil Theory - Balaskas


>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 15:41:19 -0500
>Subject: Re: Hoagland's Fossil Theory

>>From: Chaz Stuart <Daydisk2.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 15:50:01 -0500
>>Subject: Hoagland's Fossil Theory

>>Don't laugh! I don't know about the "cover-up", but he does make
>>a rather strong case for this fossil being a crinoid relative or
>>"sea lily" stem:

>>http://www.enterprisemission.com/articles/03-08-2004/crinoid_cover-up.htm

>>(too many important, relevant pix to just post the text).

>Strong case? In your mind, maybe, but not in mine. I went to the
>webpage and read everything and examined the images. Not as bad
>as George A. Filer with his allegation of Martian writing on
>rock, but those Hoagland quotes are from poor observers and
>interpreters because their perceptions are clearly colored by
>what they want to see, in much the same way that they have
>artificially colored (not calibrated, but colored) the
>'blueberries' blue. Look how it distorts the balance of colors,
>extremely so in one of the images.

>They are as kids playing around with fake money and pretending
>they are rich.

>But, what's new? Hoagland has been playing that game for years
>now.

>And now we have George Filer playing a more extreme game without
>even the play money of simulacra. His claim of finding letters
>resembling ours on Martian rock is nothing short of
>unadulterated fantasy. With his pretentious silliness before
>reporters (as in recent days), IMO, UFO research needs no other
>enemies.

Hi Ray!

There are numerous examples of such "out of place artifacts" or
OOPARTs here on Earth, so why not on Mars too? Reference to such
things was made on Errol's UFO radio show last Saturday night.

Since Nature does seem to imitate Man too, it is not surprising
that such things will be identified in the Mars rocks by
careful, but not necessarily critical, observers. The human mind
fills in details or interprets the images we see so that the two
capital letters, E and G, although they are the same size and
interesting is not very compelling evidence of past intelligent
life on Mars. Never-the-less, such evidence should never be
selectively ignored as is often done by scientists just because
it goes against their beliefs or the currently accepted
scientific views.

Since you have much experience searching for and identifying
fossils here on Earth, I would like your opinion on what you see
in these images of rocks brought back to Earth from the Moon by
the robotic 'Luna' Soviet spacecraft. Do these look like fossils
to you, George Filer or Richard Hoagland (see web site below)?

http://www.panspermia.org/zhmur2.htm

Since the Moon is in Earth's backyard of space, these fossil
looking objects could very well be identical to early Earth life
that was blasted out into space from large meteor impacts in the
past.


Nick Balaskas








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   Mar > Mar 12

                   50001 Messages Archived Since Dec 1996

From: John W. Auchettl <Praufo.nul>
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 23:31:33 EST
Fwd Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 08:53:37 -0500
Subject: 50001 Messages Archived Since Dec 1996


Hi Errol,

Congratulations and well done. I may be wrong, but I can not
think of another WWW list, in any field of science or general
hobbies, that is this large and can still act or work like a
detailed source or reference manual. Quite a unique and
marvellous end product.


John W. Auchettl

Phenomena Research Australia [PRA]
P.O. Box 523, Mulgrave, Victoria, Australia, 3170
Australian & Asia UFO
1961-2004 - 43 YEARS OF RESEARCH SERVICE








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                       UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 9 Number 10

From: John Hayes <webmaster.nul>
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 20:59:41 +0000
Fwd Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 08:56:58 -0500
Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 9 Number 10



Posted on behalf of Joseph Trainor.

<Masinaigan.nul>
==========================

      UFO ROUNDUP
Volume 9, Number 10
March 10, 2004
Editor: Joseph Trainor

E-mail: Masinaigan.nul
Website: http://www.ufoinfo.com/roundup


UFO AND CHEMTRAILS
SEEN IN SUFFOLK

      "A mysterious circle in the sky had East Anglians
scratching their heads last night." (Monday, March 1,
2004)
      "The giant halo was spotted above the region from
about 5:30 p.m. yesterday, leaving people wondering if
they had just seen a UFO."
      "A number of readers contacted the East Anglia Daily
Times (EADT) to report the sighting from towns and
villages across Suffolk (UK)."
      "EADT designer Chris Mills captured the phenomenon on
camera from a spot close to the Ipswich Railway Station."
      "'I'd just left the station when I saw a plane in the
sky making vapour trails,' he said.  'But in front of it,
and seemingly much lower in the sky, was a perfectly round
cloud--like a halo above the area around the Ipswich town
stadium.  I had a camera with me, so I took a picture of
it.  It's either one for the X-Files or means the Blues
can do no wrong.'"
(Editor's Note:  The 'vapour trails' could be chemtrails,
a phenomenon seen frequently in the USA and also in Brazil
and Italy.  This case strengthens the argument that the
chemtrails are some kind of anti-UFO weapon.)
      "Jim Keating, from Fornham St. Martin, spotted the
giant halo while driving in Bury St. Edmunds at about 6
p.m."
      "'It was like a vapour trail but a complete circle
and must have been about 20 to 30 metres (67 to 100 feet)
across.  I don't know what it was.  I've never seen
anything like it before,' he said."
(Editor's Note:  Bury St. Edmunds is one of the most
notorious UFO hotspots in UK and was the scene of a UFO
flap back in the Eighteenth Century.)
      "Dale Scott also spotted the mysterious ring from his
house in Framsden, near Framlingham, and took a couple of
pictures on his digital camera."
      "'It was very strange, like a massive smoke ring in
the sky.  I've got no idea what it was,' he said."
      "There was speculation whether the halos were rings
around the moon, caused by refraction of moonlight from
ice crystals in the atmosphere."
      "Neither EADT weatherman Ken Blowers nor Roy Golding
from the Orwell Astronomical Society could shed any light
on the mystery.  The National Air Traffic Services could
not help, either."
      "But a meteorological officer from Wattisham Airfield
said the halo had probably been caused by an aircraft."
      "'It was a condensation trail (contrail in the USA--
J.T.) that formed an exact circle, which was visible
before sunset.  We don't think it was a crystal cloud
around the sun or the moon,' he added."
      "'We don't think that it was anything extra special--
it was probably an aircraft having a jolly.'"
      Elsewhere in UK, on Thursday, February 19, 2004, at
3:30 p.m., Victor Minett was in the Burton Dassett Hills
in South Warwickshire when he spotted a UFO."
      Victor reported, "We didn't see the UFO at the time
but took a photo of a strange object in the sky as we were
photographing a lake.  It was a round, dark object, but we
can't really tell if it was spherical or disc-shaped.  It
was a few hundred feet up.  It appeared to be standing
still."
      Victor's photo is on the BBC Web site for
Warwickshire.  UFO Roundup readers can access the site at
http://www.bbc.co.uk/coventry/features  (See the East
Anglia Daily Times for March 2, 2004, "Mystery of circle
in the sky."  Many thanks to Jim Hickman for this
newspaper article.  Victor's sighting was an Email Form
Report.)


LUMINOUS UFO FLOTILLA
SEEN IN QUEENSLAND

      On Thursday, February 26, 2004, at 4:30 a.m., Mrs.
Nicole S. saw a formation of luminous UFOs over Toowoomba,
Queensland state, Australia.
      "There were large spots of light formed in a circle,"
Nicole reported, "Then the same formation in a circle but
smaller.  There was a large one and a smaller one just off
to the side of it.  All of the spots of light were
spinning around in circles and, at the same time, they
were darting across the sky."
      "I was driving east along" Gorman Street "and the
formation was southeast.  As I was driving and watching it
dart across the sky, it went out of sight across the top
of my car.  I then had to stop at a set of lights,
proceeded through the set of lights and caught sight of it
again.  The formation had moved more south but was still
in the east."
      "I did think maybe it was lights coming from the uni
(university--J.T.) in the area but thought at 4:30 a.m.,
probably not.  I then had to turn off the street" onto
Stenner Street "and I was driving east, which was when I
lost sight.  They were quite high in the sky and very
large.  From ground level they looked at least 15 feet
(4.5 meters)" across.  "Altitude roughly 800 to 1,000 feet
(240 to 300 meters).  The sky was overcast."
      Toowoomba, Qlnd. is about 210 kilometers (126 miles)
west of Brisbane.  (Many thanks to John Hayes and Diane
Harrison of the Australian UFO Research Network for this
report.)


FLICKERING UFO SIGHTED
IN SOUTH AFRICA

      On Saturday, March 6, 2004, at 11:44 p.m., eyewitness
Marek reported, "A friend and I were sitting and chatting
in our lounge" in Riviera Pretoria Gauteng, South Africa,
"looking outside northwards, and I pointed out what I
thought was a flare.  It grew brighter but remained
motionless, without a flare's usual downward path.  It
then abruptly faded and moved off to the east in a
perfectly straight line.  We lost sight of it as it moved
behind the mountains."
      Marek described the UFO as "like a flare, bright
white, then yellow.  Round.  Brightness faded too quickly
for a flare.  Then it moved off at maybe 1,200 kilometers
per hour (720 miles per hour--J.T.) by our distance
estimate."  (Email Form Report)


UFOs SIGHTED REPEATEDLY
OVER CARACAS, VENEZUELA

      "Venezuela's social and political situation remains
tense," reported ufologist Hector Arturo Escalante.
"Hundreds of people are demonstrating up to twice a month
in the capital city (Caracas--J.T.) to publicly express
their political ideals and statements.  Parallel to the
confrontational situation, there has been a rise in UFO
sightings."
      "On (Friday) January 23, 2004, a new chance photo of
a UFO was taken during a revered and much-attended
political demonstration in Caracas.  The celebration was
the '23rd of January,' a yearly holiday celebrated in the
country since 1958 in commemoration of the overthrow of
the dictator Marcos Perez Jimenez."
      "On the anniversary, a considerable group of
Venezuelans" supporting the government of President Hugo
Chavez "marched through the main streets of Caracas to
celebrate 46 years of democracy in Venezuela."
      "As is my custom," Escalante reported, "I took many
photos of the sky.  When I took the first photos, the time
was between noon and one o'clock, and the skies were
partly cloudy.  On the second opportunity, another
'strange' thing was photographed; it was a dark elongated
object over the western end of the city, not farm from the
Miraflores presidential palace, an electric power station"
just west of the Plaza O'Leary "and the Cagigal
Observatory."
      On Wednesday, February 4, 2004, "for the third
consecutive time, it was possible to obtain another UFO
image.  In this new image, the UFO appears to be hovering
over the central districts of the city (Candelaria, Santa
Teresa, El Silencio and Quinta Crespo--J.T.), just as a
multitude of government supporters arrived in barrio La
Rinconada to pay tribute to those who fell during the
attempted coup and Commander Hugo Chavez's first
participation in politics."
(Editor's Note: On the morning of February 4, 1992, a
group of insurgents led by Hugo Chavez tried to drive
then-President Carlos Andres Perez out of office in an
abortive coup d'etat.)
      Images of the Venezuelan UFOs can be seen at the
following Web site--http://www.ovniaventura.com  (Muchas
gracias a Scott Corrales y Hector Arturo Escalante para
esas noticias.)


BRIGHT YELLOW UFOs SEEN
OVER BUENOS AIRES

      Venezuela wasn't the only country in South America to
report UFOs.  A five-day UFO flap had Portenos scanning
the night skies over Buenos Aires, the capital of
Argentina.
      The flap began the evening of Monday, February 23,
2004 when "a large, intense yellow-orange UFO" appeared
over the Rio de la Plata, just offshore from the
waterfront area of La Boca.  From there, the glowing
object darted over the Casa Rosada presidential palace,
then headed north to the Avenida Nueve de Julio and flew
over the city's Santa Fe district.
      "Bright yellow UFOs appeared the following night,"
Tuesday, February 24, 2004, with sightings from the
Avellaneda Bridge over the Rio Riachuelo and the suburban
districts of Palermo and San Isidro.
      On Wednesday, February 25, 2005, the UFOs returned
again, this time, crisscrossing the skies over the
Corrientes-Lavalle district (the "Broadway" of Buenos
Aires--J.T.), Luna Park and Charcas.  "They were literally
flying in every direction," reported Argentinian ufologist
Ricardo E. D'Angelo.
      More sightings over El Centro and the Casa Rosada
were reported on Thursday, February 26, and Friday,
February 27, 2004.  "Again, they were flying in all
directions," D'Angelo reported.  (Muchas gracias a Ricardo
E. D'Angelo para esas noticias.)


HOVERING UFO SEEN IN
WOLF CREEK, OREGON

      On Wednesday, January 21, 2004, at 6:45 p.m., Niki
Leighton and her son were driving on a mountain road near
Wolf Creek, Oregon when they spotted a UFO.
      "It was hovering at about 750 feet when we came
around the corner," Niki reported, "My son and I were on
our way to the fire station for the Wednesday night drill
when we saw a very bright ball of light hovering just over
the mountaintop (i.e. London Peak, just west of Wolf
Creek, Ore.--J.T.)  And then it went straight up.  It was
like a very bright ball of light and big.  Don't know if
there was press coverage.  We live in the woods and do not
get the paper or TV reception."  (Email Form Report)


ROVERS FIND EVIDENCE OF
ANCIENT WATER ON MARS

      "One of NASA's robotic rovers has found evidence that
parts of Mars was once soaked with enough water to sustain
life, scientists said Tuesday," March 2, 2004.
      "'Opportunity has landed in an area of Mars where
water once drenched the surface,' said Ed Weiler, a NASA
space science administrator."
      "The conclusion is based in part on salts found in
ancient bedrock.  Scientists hope to tell in coming weeks
whether salt water once filled an open sea or simply
percolated through the rock as groundwater."
      "At a Tuesday briefing at the space agency's
headquarters, scientists released results from the rover's
investigation of a bedrock outcrop.  A piece of the
outcrop, named 'El Capitan,' has caused much interest
among the scientists."
      "Now dry, the rock shows evidence of having been
submerged in water, conditions friendly to the existence
of microbial life."
      "'This was a habitable place on Mars at one point in
time,' said rover science chief Steve Squyres of Cornell
University.  However, he cautioned, 'that doesn't mean
there was life.'"
      "The rover landed inside the small crater crowned
with layered rock on January 24, 2004.  NASA designed the
$820 million twin rover mission, Opportunity and the
Spirit probe on the other side of Mars, to investigate the
possible existence of long-ago habitable conditions.
Scientists have long known that Mars holds water ice in
its poles and likely under its surface, but they have been
uncertain about the role water played in the planet's
geology."
      "The NASA team tested the chemistry of two holes
drilled into the bedrock.  The rocks hold sulfur and
bromide salts in as much as 40 percent of their material,
an unmistakable sign of water weathering the rock, Squyres
said."
      "Also, the rock showed signs of crystals left by
water and spherical 'blueberries' left in the bedrock that
precipitated in place, like pearls formed by oysters."
      "Spirit rover has found evidence of water activity in
a volcanic rock on the other side of Mars from where its
twin, Opportunity, discovered signs that the ground there"
in Meridiani Planum "had once been drenched."
      "The amount of water at Spirit's site at Gusev Crater
would have been much less than what is indicated at
Opportunity's site in Meridiani Planum, Ray Arvidson,
deputy principal investigator of the rover mission said
Friday," March 5, 2004.
      "The findings came from the study of a rock dubbed
'Humphrey' that Spirit came across en route from its
landing site to a big crater named 'Bonneville,' Arvidson
told a news conference at the Jet Propulsion Laboratory"
in Pasadena, California.
      "Spirit used its abrasion tool to grind below the
rock surface and reveal cracks filled with apparent
minerals, an indicator of water action familiar to
geologists studying Earth rocks."
      "Scientists are unable to determine when the water
may have been present, but the evidence suggests it was
during the long-ago formation of the planet."
      "Scientists making the announcement about
Opportunity's discovery earlier this week could not say
whether there had been standing surface water or even an
ocean there, but data showed water had flowed or
percolated through those rocks."
      "Arvidson said there was much less water indicated by
'Humphrey.'"
      "Both rovers continue to work well, mission officials
said."  (See USA Today for March 3, 2004, "Mars rover
finds evidence of ancient water," page 3A, and the
Minneapolis, Minn. Star-Tribune for March 6, 204, "Second
rover finds signs of water on Mars," page A9.)


      That's it for this week.  Join us next time for more
UFO, Fortean and paranormal news from around the planet
Earth--and occasionally, Mars--brought to you by "the
paper that goes home--UFO Roundup."  See you next week.

UFO ROUNDUP: Copyright 2004 by Masinaigan Productions, all
rights reserved.  Readers may post news items from UFO
Roundup on their Web sites or in news groups provided that
they credit the newsletter and its editor by name and list
the date of issue in which the item first appeared.

E-Mail Reports to: Joseph Trainor <Masinaigan.nul>
or use the Sighting Report Form at:

http://www.ufoinfo.com/forms/form_sighting.htm

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   Mar > Mar 12

                          Secrecy News -- 03/11/04

From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood.nul>
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 16:31:53 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 08:58:26 -0500
Subject: Secrecy News -- 03/11/04


SECRECY NEWS
from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy
Volume 2004, Issue No. 28
March 11, 2004


**      THE POLYGRAPH VS. NATIONAL SECURITY
**      DOCTRINE FOR JOINT SPECIAL OPERATIONS
**      IKONOS SATELLITE IMAGE OF MADRID


THE POLYGRAPH VS. NATIONAL SECURITY

As a technology for counterintelligence security screening, the
polygraph has been a spectacular failure. It is hard to recall
the last time that polygraph screening uncovered an actual spy,
and easy to think of spies who had no difficulty escaping its
clutches.

But U.S. government polygraph policy continues to penalize
innocent individuals, and those who presume to challenge that
policy.

Alan P. Zelicoff, a distinguished physician and expert on
biological weapons arms control, was driven to resign his
position as Senior Scientist at Sandia National Laboratories
last year as a consequence of his outspoken criticism of
polygraph testing.

For his diverse technical contributions, Zelicoff had been
awarded Sandia's Meritorious Achievement Award on several
occasions as recently as 2002.

But after publishing an op-ed in the Washington Post last year
criticizing the Lab's polygraph policy, he was suspended and
accused of "insubordination."

Zelicoff was banned from working on a counterterrorism software
tool he had invented to facilitate rapid reporting of disease
outbreaks. When he continued to speak out on the polygraph, he
was suspended a second time. Finally, he quit.

The polygraph won, but the Lab, and the nation that turns to it
for scientific expertise, lost.

"As the only senior [Sandia] scientist who had also practiced
medicine, I knew that continuation of polygraphs was going to be
a disaster for individuals at Sandia and elsewhere in the DOE
complex," Dr. Zelicoff wrote recently. "And indeed it was."

See his account of the episode in "The Polygraph Vs. National
Security," March 11, here:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/eprint/zelicoff.pdf

Convicted spy Aldrich Ames offered an impudent but rather
perceptive commentary on the polygraph in this 2000 letter he
wrote to FAS from Allenwood federal penitentiary, where he is
incarcerated:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/othergov/polygraph/ames.html

In recent years, CIA polygraph examiners have added a new
question to their standard exam, which is also asked in some
official background investigations: Do you have friends in the
media?


DOCTRINE FOR JOINT SPECIAL OPERATIONS

"I have done a lot of things since I've been here in three years
with respect to the special operations capabilities of the
country," said Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld in a March 4
interview with Reuters.

"Special operations forces" are small units with specialized
capabilities that operate clandestinely in hostile or
politically sensitive environments in order to achieve military,
diplomatic, or other objectives.

"We've increased their budget, we've increased their numbers,
we've added conventional forces to take over some of their
responsibilities that they might otherwise have been engaged
in," Secretary Rumsfeld said.

"We have changed their authorities so that now the Special
Operations Command is not only a command that is in support of
other commands, but that on occasion will be a command that will
be supported by other commands. We have connected the United
States Marine Corps to the special operators for the first time
in any significant way."

"And we have given encouragement to them."

"The Defense Department has worked closely with the CIA, going
both ways on any number of occasions over any number of years in
any number of situations.... [In other words,] we've taken them
for cooperative arrangements, they've taken some of our people
sometimes. They may be doing something where it requires some
competence that we have distinctively, so we've worked very
cooperatively with them," Secretary Rumsfeld said.

Military doctrine governing interagency (and multinational)
special operations has been newly revised and presented in
"Doctrine for Joint Special Operations," Joint Publication 3-05,
Joint Chiefs of Staff, December 17, 2003:

http://www.fas.org/irp/doddir/dod/jp3-05.pdf


IKONOS SATELLITE IMAGE OF MADRID

The Atocha Railway Station in Madrid, Spain was one of the
targets of a series of terrorist explosions that killed at least
190 people and wounded over a thousand today.

A high-resolution satellite image taken of the site in August
2003 was released today by Space Imaging, Inc., to support news
coverage of the attack. See:

http://www.fas.org/irp/imint/atocha.htm



_______________________________________________
Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the
Federation of American Scientists.

To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to
secrecy_news-request.nul
with "subscribe" in the body of the message.

OR email your request to saftergood.nul

Secrecy News is archived at:
http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html

_______________________
Steven Aftergood
Project on Government Secrecy
Federation of American Scientists
web:  www.fas.org/sgp/index.html
email: saftergood.nul
voice: (202) 454-4691








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   Mar > Mar 12

                               JPL's Mars UFO

From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 18:25:20 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 08:59:24 -0500
Subject: JPL's Mars UFO


Note the interesting use of "UFO" in this JPL URL re an anomally
in the Martian sky taken by Rover's cameras.

I wonder, would this be a time lapse of Earth?

Watch the wrap, the URL is long.


Best,

Don Ledger

http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/press/spirit/20040311a/Earth_Sol63A_UFO-A
067R1.jpg









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   Mar > Mar 12

                  CI: Do Martians Listen to Compact Discs?

From: Mac Tonnies <macbot.nul>
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 15:33:53 -0800 (PST)
Fwd Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 09:00:11 -0500
Subject: CI: Do Martians Listen to Compact Discs?



Cydonian Imperative
3-11-04

See: http://www.mactonnies.com/cydonia.html (page 47)

Do Martians Listen to Compact Discs?

[image]

CD-like formation at Gusev crater.

What is this?

-end-








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                     BLT Research Team Web Site Hacked?

From: Paul Anderson <paulanderson.nul>
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 18:43:22 -0800
Fwd Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 09:01:14 -0500
Subject: BLT Research Team Web Site Hacked?




I'm just forwarding a message by request from Nancy Talbott who
will be out of town now until the weekend. She says the BLT
Research Team web site went down last night at about 1:20 am and
her ISP doesn't have an explanation yet but suspects it was
hacked. It should be back in a few days, but for now it only
redirects back to an old Register.com page saying that the
domain name has been registered, and that's it.

http://www.bltresearch.com

This comes just after the important new XRD crop circle study
was published on the web site on March 9 (re CCCRN News, March
10). I tend to try not to be too conspiracy-oriented, but there
may be someone out there with way too much free time on their
hands?


Paul








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   Mar > Mar 12

                        Re: UFOs & Fairies? - Seguin

From: Trevor Seguin <h0riz0n.nul>
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 19:05:59 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 09:02:38 -0500
Subject: Re: UFOs & Fairies? - Seguin


>From: Ray Dickenson <editor.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 17:55:44 +0000
>Subject: Re: UFOs & Fairies?

>>From: Steven Kaeser <steve.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 08:51:26 -0500
>>Subject: Re: UFOs & Fairies?

<snip>

>So, coming back to your "Father Nature" figure (which is how I'd
>previously seen "the green man" myself) - that would be valid
>_if_ there was no nature god in the pantheon when the green man
>first arose.

>I'll have to re-look at Greek/Roman stuff to be sure but that
>doesn't seem to be the case, and if so either the green man is a
>much older "nature Myth" - or was invented to explain something
>anomalous (& also very ancient).

<snip>

The reference to The Green Man as father nature is very ancient.
He is not represented so much in Greek and Roman mythos, but
more, in British and Gaelic Myth and folklore. The people of
that area evolved with a great affinity to nature. They knew,
being farmers that there lives depended on the seasons and on
the crops of that year.

They prayed to 'the god of green' and Father Nature was born. At
the same time as the Queen of the dark came into being. Fether
nature has been represented and misrepresented in many wats
through the years, and noone is sure his true original form, but
today his follower mostly see him and either a man of in the
woodlands who plays with the fairie folk, or in the likeness of
Pan, An horned and hooved man.

Wiccan's and other old religion's see The Dominating Father
figure how rules the sun and the summer. And they see the Great
mother as ruling the tides, lunar cycle, and the winter.

Wicca today is a very update version of the religion that was
born with man and evovled through the years with him/and her.

You worship those you depend on and frankly in Northern Europe
you depend on the sun.

The Green man was said to walk in the woodlands with the
fairies. Residents of the British Isles refer to fairie folk as
'Greenies' and 'Greencoaties'

I recommend those interested google "The fairy Children" its and
old tale of Two fairy children, who claim to be of a race with
green skin.


That is all.

Trevor
Master of the Universe :)








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                Update On BLT Web Site Problem And XRD Study

From: Paul Anderson <paulanderson.nul>
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 20:28:05 -0800
Fwd Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 09:11:39 -0500
Subject: Update On BLT Web Site Problem And XRD Study



Didn't intend on multiple posts today(!), but just received this
update from Nancy Talbott re. the problems with the BLT web site
and the XRD study.

-----

Dear Crop Circle Enthusiasts:

1. On the night of March 10-11, at 1:31 a.m., an unknown
individual logged onto the BLT Domain Name manager and altered
our server name to "register.com." In order to do this they had
to know both our User I.D. and our password. There are only two
people who have this information, myself and a new web-site
designer. Neither of us are responsible. I have now contacted
the various people required to get this fixed and have changed
both the User I.D. and the password and am told that the BLT
web-site will be back up in a day or two. At the most, 72
hours. I have no idea what has happened here and regret the
inconvenience to all the people trying to access the site.
Please try again in a day or two.

2. I have been sent a copy of an email distributed by Colin
Andrews regarding the BLT XRD Study, in which he states his
opinion that the XRD Study somehow supports an idea he presented
some time ago that only 20% of reported crop circles (ones he
refers to as having "simple designs") are not man-made. The
data supporting this claim wa not made available when the
announcement was made, and I have seen no data subsequently, and
therefore cannot make any intelligent comment regarding this
claim.

However I must respond to this current assertion that the BLT
XRD Study somehow supports this notion that 80% of crop circles
(those of "complex" design) are all man-made and only 20%
(those with "simple designs") are not man-made. Please be aware
that the BLT study in no way deals with this question, as is
clear if one reads the "Study Objectives" and "Study Results,"
at the beginning of the XRD report. Perhaps Mr. Andrews has
misunderstood entirely the work reported in the BLT study,
mixing up somehow illite/smectites with "magnetic profiles." I
don't know. But the reader should be aware that there is no
scientific evidence provided by the XRD Study which can in any
way be construed as supporting (or contradicting) this 80/20
idea.

Additionally, it is not clear to me what Mr. Andrews means,
exactly, by "simple designs." The XRD Study Case at Edmonton,
Canada is a 7-circle event which looks a bit like a "mini-Triple
Julia," in reverse. Three of the other crop circles initially
evaluated consisted of (1) 2 circles connected by pathways and
with adjacent pathways at Logan Utah in 1966, (2) 3 various-
 sized circles connected by pathways at Acadia Valley, Alberta,
Canada in 1999, and (3) a large ring with long pathways (like an
"X") crossing thru it and with attendant additional pathways at
Whitefish, Montana in, I think, 1999. The soils in all of these
cases indicated the same crystalline changes were present... but
were rejected for the final study due to various sampling
problems (not enough samples/controls, unavailability of
samples/controls due to the farmer's swathing of the field, and
a misunderstanding of sampling protocol by the fieldworkers).
Are these all considered to be "simple designs"?

In science one must clarify terms, protocols, examination
techniques, etc. precisely, so that other professionals can
attempt replication of any results claimed. Anything less is
confabulation, or really BAD science. BLT is trying to offer the
interested public first-class, reliable, professional work, so
that we can all follow new facts as they emerge. Please don't
make the mistake, here, of mixing apples and oranges.


Thank you for your attention,

Nancy Talbott
BLT Research Team Inc.
(<http://www.bltresearch.comwww.bltresearch.com)










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   Mar > Mar 12

                   Re: Hoagland's Fossil Theory - Stanford

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 23:52:50 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 10:12:31 -0500
Subject: Re: Hoagland's Fossil Theory - Stanford


>From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 11:52:38 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
>Subject: Re: Hoagland's Fossil Theory

>>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 15:41:19 -0500
>>Subject: Re: Hoagland's Fossil Theory

>>>From: Chaz Stuart <Daydisk2.nul>
>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 15:50:01 -0500
>>>Subject: Hoagland's Fossil Theory

>>>Don't laugh! I don't know about the "cover-up", but he does make
>>>a rather strong case for this fossil being a crinoid relative or
>>>"sea lily" stem:


>>http://www.enterprisemission.com/articles/03-08-2004/crinoid_cover-up.htm

>>>(too many important, relevant pix to just post the text).

>>Strong case? In your mind, maybe, but not in mine. I went to the
>>webpage and read everything and examined the images. Not as bad
>>as George A. Filer with his allegation of Martian writing on
>>rock, but those Hoagland quotes are from poor observers and
>>interpreters because their perceptions are clearly colored by
>>what they want to see, in much the same way that they have
>>artificially colored (not calibrated, but colored) the
>>'blueberries' blue. Look how it distorts the balance of colors,
>>extremely so in one of the images.

>>They are as kids playing around with fake money and pretending
>>they are rich.

>>But, what's new? Hoagland has been playing that game for years
>>now.

>>And now we have George Filer playing a more extreme game without
>>even the play money of simulacra. His claim of finding letters
>>resembling ours on Martian rock is nothing short of
>>unadulterated fantasy. With his pretentious silliness before
>>reporters (as in recent days), IMO, UFO research needs no other
>>enemies.
>
>Hi Ray!
>
>There are numerous examples of such "out of place artifacts" or
>OOPARTs here on Earth, so why not on Mars too? Reference to such
>things was made on Errol's UFO radio show last Saturday night.
>
>Since Nature does seem to imitate Man too, it is not surprising
>that such things will be identified in the Mars rocks by
>careful, but not necessarily critical, observers. The human mind
>fills in details or interprets the images we see so that the two
>capital letters, E and G, although they are the same size and
>interesting is not very compelling evidence of past intelligent
>life on Mars. Never-the-less, such evidence should never be
>selectively ignored as is often done by scientists just because
>it goes against their beliefs or the currently accepted
>scientific views.
>
>Since you have much experience searching for and identifying
>fossils here on Earth, I would like your opinion on what you see
>in these images of rocks brought back to Earth from the Moon by
>the robotic 'Luna' Soviet spacecraft. Do these look like fossils
>to you, George Filer or Richard Hoagland (see web site below)?
>
>http://www.panspermia.org/zhmur2.htm
>
>Since the Moon is in Earth's backyard of space, these fossil
>looking objects could very well be identical to early Earth life
>that was blasted out into space from large meteor impacts in the
>past.


Nick,

Undoubtedly, the little spheres shown at the panspermia website
are glass micro-spherules from impact events, which are abundant
on the moon. I have several nice slices of lunar highland
breccia right here (from well-documented lunar meteorites), and
they abound with spherules and micro spherules of anorthisitic
(and some other) glass. I think I may even see one or two tiny
spherules of white anorthisitic glass in a lunar mare basalt
slice. I have also closely examined such spherules brought back
by one of the manned lunar missions when my wife temporarily had
some under her guardianship, over-night, in connection with her
job with NASA. I took some nice macro photos of them.

The ringed thing could have any number of causes (See below, for
one.) that are more plausible than the fossil interpretation,
especially if it really came from the moon. I surely would
hesitate to invoke Terra-Luna panspermia to account for
something like that, which is clearly made of glass resulting
from an impact. I trust you understand my point.

If the Russians officials thought those things shown on that
very speculative (due to its unfounded interpretations) website
to be fossils, you can bet the U.S. would have heard about it in
the context of, maybe, "Hey! Look what your astronauts
overlooked!" And, by contrast, if the Russians (or former
Soviets) wanted to cover up (for inconceivable reasons) the
discovery of past life on Luna, they surely would not have let
those images out into public view -- if, in fact, they really
were collected on the moon (and I'm not saying I believe
otherwise).

Believe me, if they were really fossils, they would have shown
up in a major journal by now. What scientist could resist
seeking such a 'feather in his cap' and maybe even a Nobel Prize
for such a discovery if he or she should have confidence in the
fossil interpretation?

I would refer you to, for example, the book Moon Rocks And
Minerals, 1971, Pergamon Press, Inc. (Scientific Results of the
Study of the Apollo 11 Lunar Samples...) It has abundant photos
of spheres and microspheres of glass, and Plate 7, top, shows a
multi-ring hypervelocity impact crater (evidently formed by the
strike of a micrometeorite) with surrounding chipped (spalled)
zone, on a dark brown glass sphere from the lunar fines. That
is very reminiscent of the ridiculously alleged, "...silicated
fossil found in lunar regolith similar to modern spiral
filamentous microorganisms such as Phormidium frigidum..." shown
on that panspermia website. Such a statement shouts of
intellectual dishonesty. Even if it were a fossil (which it
clearly is not), the writer would be hard-put to account for how
it became "silicified" on a waterless moon. In fact, quite a
few very excellent examples of such multi-ring impact craters in
glass are illustrated elsewhere in the book I just referenced.
The person who put together that website and made those claims
shows a deep ignorance of the well-documented identity of lunar
materials, or else is just a dreamer who has little regard for
established facts.

O.K., Nick, you asked for my opinion, so there you have it. As
you state, I have a lot of experience with terrestrial fossils.
 As is not the case with most paleontologists and
paleoichnologists, I also have appreciable experience in the
study of meteorites, including lunar and Martian meteorites, and
with impact glasses (relevant here, and of which I have a very
extensive collection), and a bit of first-hand experience with a
couple of Apollo lunar samples. For those reasons, your asking
my opinion is appreciated, because I feel that I do not speak
'in the dark' on such things.


Ray Stanford

"You know my method. It is founded upon the observance of trifles." --
Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery








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   Mar > Mar 12

             Re: UFO Magazine Folds After Editor's Death - Hale

From: Roy Hale <roy.nul>
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 05:26:54 -0000
Fwd Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 10:16:10 -0500
Subject: Re: UFO Magazine Folds After Editor's Death - Hale


>From: Joe McGonagle <joe.mcgonagle.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 08:38:52 -0000
>Subject: Re: UFO Magazine Folds After Editor's Death

>With the sad demise of UFO Magazine (UK), I would like to appeal
>to the previous readership and contributors to support Flying
>Saucer Review. I gather that they are also finding it difficult
>to compete with the internet, cable TV, etc.


List,

I received a question tonight from a friend of FSR, for Mr
McGonagle.

-----

A statement by a friend of FSR.

Mr Mcgonagle, You have spoken kind words of support for Flying
Saucer Review and have offered your positive view on both the
archive CD and the importance of having a national U.K. UFO
journal.

In order to better understand your long term position on both
FSR and UFO magazine, for which you appear to be sincerely
gathering support; I wonder if you might clear up the following
statement you made on UpDates on 12th November 2003. How did the
change in your position come about on the relative importance of
these publications?

If you remember you stated the following:

Thu, 13 Nov 2003 08:25:34 -0500
Subject: Re: BBC Radio 4 UFO Programme

"You have excluded a multitude of other possible solutions in
your belief that UFOs are of extraterrestrial origin. I mean the
really unexplained and thoroughly investigated ones, not just
stories that you read in FSR/UFO magazine/Junior Sc-fi weekly."

-----

Regards,

Roy








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                       Re: UFO Magazine UK - Harrison

From: Diane Harrison <auforn.nul>
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 20:56:23 +1000
Fwd Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 09:24:26 -0500
Subject: Re: UFO Magazine UK - Harrison


>From: A. J. Gevaerd - Revista UFO <gevaerd.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 07:27:48 -0300
>Subject: UFO Magazine UK

<snip>

>Dear Friends and Colleagues:

>I am terribly sorry to hear about UFO Magazine UK's demise. But
>not surprised.

Hi Everyone,

I, like AJ, was not surprised and being the co-editor of The
Australasian UFOlogist magazine I too know how hard one has to
work to keep it afloat.

Graham poured his Heart and Soul into his UFO magazine, as we do
with ours and as AJ does with his. But now Graham has gone, the
family are left with this enormous decision, where do they go
from here?

We all know a UFO magazine is not like Woman's weekly were all
you have to sell is the newest cake recipe or show pictures of
fat or thin movie stars - if only it was that simple. :>)

Christine, Helen, Louise and Russell have been under constant
pressure to keep up the Graham standard and in doing so they
have known they were under the watchful eyes of not only their
readers, but also their critics. The pressure to deliver the
goods in each issue would have been a tremendous strain on all.

So List, one must ask how can the family truly lay their
farther/husbands soul to rest if they are constantly trying to
be Graham's heart and soul in every issue. Think about it.

>AJ said: I have absolutely no doubt that all of them struggled
>and worked extremely hard to keep UFO Magazine UK alive,
>and it must have indeed been too much of a demanding task.

This is what Helen had to say to me.

"It's completely right what you said about a magazine having
a heart and soul, the only thing is that our magazines belonged
to my Dads heart and soul and now he's gone it hurts too much
to continue."

Helen we in the industry totally understand.

>Well, with these lines I intended to tell to you all, wherever
>you live and whatever you do in and around Ufology, that the
>idea of launching and keeping a UFO magazine is hardly a
>profitable business. It is barely a business. Rather, it is more
>like a passion that you have to work out, no matter what. Graham
>did so, working madly to keep the magazine running, day and
>night, seven days a week, with the help of his family - as do I.
>His life project is my life project, and as long as I am alive,
>Brazilian UFO Magazine will be running. After I die, I do not
>know.....

Well said AJ

Helen Christine remember this, "you can't please everyone, and I
and Robert thank you for the bottom of our hearts for trying.

-----

My comments have been posted with permission of Helen Birdsall.

--

Regards Diane Harrison

Co Editor
The Australasian UFOlogist Magazine
auforn.nul

Editor
The Hard Evidence Magazine.
auforn.nul


Australian Magazines dealing with Australian and World Wide issues

Government issues, Health,New Technology,Space, Free Energy
UFOs, Paranormal, Hard Evidence Conspiracies

http://www.hypermax.net.au/~auforn

Earthlink Publishing (Aust) Pty Ltd
PO Box 738
Beaudessert 4285
QLD Australia
Tel/Fax 07 55 44 6888








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   Mar > Mar 13

                        Re: JPL's Mars UFO - Lehmberg

From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg.nul>
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 08:13:52 -0600
Fwd Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 09:27:04 -0500
Subject: Re: JPL's Mars UFO - Lehmberg


>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 18:25:20 -0400
>Subject: Re: JPL's Mars UFO

>Note the interesting use of "UFO" in this JPL URL re an anomally
>in the Martian sky taken by Rover's cameras.


>http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/press/spirit/20040311a/Earth_Sol63A_UFO-
A067R1.jpg

>I wonder, would this be a time lapse of Earth?

...Wouldn't the smear be more regular? The object photographed
seems to pulse... Moreover, there seems to be a star or small
moon photographed to the left of the object about two and a half
cm to the right from the left edge of the photo... no smear...

...Jeez, Don -- wouldn't it be -wonderful- to be able to accept
an official explanation from our government or its institutions
and agencies regarding these matters?


Lehmberg.nul

EXPLORE "AlienViewGroup" at its HostPros URL.
http://www.alienview.net


JOHN FORD RESTORATION FUND -- John will be released eventually.
He'll need a tax free cash stake to get on his feet. Let's put
one together for him; the bigger it is -- the more attention
he gets. It could have been you. E-mail for detail.
$450.00 pledged -- $200.00 collected!

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite.
What others see from afar, I leave far behind me."
- Giordano Bruno, scourged by the scabrously specious scurrilous.









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   Mar > Mar 13

              Re: BLT Research Team Web Site Hacked? - Lehmberg

From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg.nul>
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 08:19:21 -0600
Fwd Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 09:28:46 -0500
Subject: Re: BLT Research Team Web Site Hacked? - Lehmberg


>From: Paul Anderson <paulanderson.nul>
>Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 18:43:22 -0800
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Subject: BLT Research Team Web Site Hacked?

>I'm just forwarding a message by request from Nancy Talbott who
>will be out of town now until the weekend. She says the BLT
>Research Team web site went down last night at about 1:20 am and
>her ISP doesn't have an explanation yet but suspects it was
>hacked. It should be back in a few days, but for now it only
>redirects back to an old Register.com page saying that the
>domain name has been registered, and that's it.

>http://www.bltresearch.com

>This comes just after the important new XRD crop circle study
>was published on the web site on March 9 (re CCCRN News, March
>10). I tend to try not to be too conspiracy-oriented, but there
>may be someone out there with way too much free time on their
>hands?


ROFL!  Well - that would be _me_, and I didn't do it! <LOL>

Lehmberg.nul
www.AlienView.net

Photo Album: http://www.alienview.net/AVAlbum.htm
(send picture as attachment to Lehmberg.nul)
Splash page:   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AlienViewGroup/
Radio Show & Splash Page:  http://www.alienview.net/alienviews.htm
Radio Show Archives: Out of Service at this time...

http://www.alienview.net/N2Ltune.html -- Tunes composed to put
your -head- in a different place...








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   Mar > Mar 13

               Re: CI: Do Martians Listen to Compact Discs? -

From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 08:20:30 -0600
Fwd Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 09:31:55 -0500
Subject: Re: CI: Do Martians Listen to Compact Discs? -


>From: Mac Tonnies <macbot.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 15:33:53 -0800 (PST)
>Subject: CI: Do Martians Listen to Compact Discs?

>Cydonian Imperative
>3-11-04

>See: http://www.mactonnies.com/cydonia.html (page 47)

>Do Martians Listen to Compact Discs?

>[image]

>CD-like formation at Gusev crater.

Hey, I found another face for your catalog. It's a little one,
of a Martian wearing a bow tie, but I think it's pretty funny.

http:\\www.cpu-net.com\host\shell\deadmartian.jpg

And what's this guy doing walking around?

http:\\www.cpu-net.com\host\shell\marsdude.jpg

Heh heh.








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   Mar > Mar 13

                         Re: JPL's Mars UFO - Shell

From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 08:22:32 -0600
Fwd Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 09:34:42 -0500
Subject: Re: JPL's Mars UFO - Shell


>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
>To:  ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 18:25:20 -0400
>Subject: Re: JPL's Mars UFO

>Note the interesting use of "UFO" in this JPL URL re an anomally
>in the Martian sky taken by Rover's cameras.

>I wonder, would this be a time lapse of Earth?

>Watch the wrap, the URL is long.

>http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/press/spirit/20040311a/Earth_Sol63A_UFO-
A067R1.jpg

I know they were going to try and image the moons. I'm guessing
(debunking) that this might be one of them, on a time-lapse
photo.








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   Mar > Mar 13

                Re: UFO Magazine Folds After Editor's Death -

From: Steven Kaeser <steve.nul>
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 10:38:57 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 09:37:03 -0500
Subject: Re: UFO Magazine Folds After Editor's Death -


>From: Joe McGonagle <joe.mcgonagle.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 08:38:52 -0000
>Subject: Re: UFO Magazine Folds After Editor's Death

>With the sad demise of UFO Magazine (UK), I would like to appeal
>to the previous readership and contributors to support Flying
>Saucer Review. I gather that they are also finding it difficult
>to compete with the internet, cable TV, etc.

I had thought that FSR was not being published any longer. Is
there some web location that one could go to for subscription
information? I would also request that anyone with specific
informaiton contact me directly at steve.nul Thanks
in advance.


Steve








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   Mar > Mar 13

                       We Need To Talk 'Intelligence'

From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 10:58:03 EST
Fwd Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 09:38:51 -0500
Subject: We Need To Talk 'Intelligence'


In this field, UFO research we often marvel at how such craft
could be constructed and perform.

Apotheosis not withstanding, such feats might be considered
paranormal or coming from 'the gods' or some such.

We need to talk 'intelligence'. We need to research just how
smart a person can be, how smart they can get and from my
viewpoint, how smart people have been.

I recall in anthropology class 20 years ago when the professor
placed progressive hominid skulls on her desk. They went from
small to larger ending off at the Cro Magnon state. I remember
giggling when the series of skulls only took up a portion of her
desk and we students kidded each other that there was room after
Cro Magnon for more. Jokers as we were we looked at each other
and made with the wisecracks noting our various head shapes
teasing one another that 'we' were that next step forward or
backwards.

Looking at our history as a species there are so many errors and
misconceptions that what I learned in college 20+ years ago had
to be tossed out as new discoveries radically changed the
conclusions then.

I remember how one kid said that history was written by the guy
who didn't want to get beaten up.

The more we dig, the more we find. The more we find the older
things get. When did modern man first appear? We're still
dealing with guestimates. How smart was modern man then as
compared to now? We don't know. Are we the top of the
evolutionary ladder or did something break off long ago of such
intellect and resourcefulness that we look like kinders to them?

How high can an IQ go?

We make the error of assuming an intelligent group would have
high tech gizmos whose remains we could dig up. Magnificent
sprawling cities etc. That's what 'we' might do. We've got to
stop judging by 'we'. We need more research. More digs.

But basically ( pardon starting a paragraph with 'but' ), we've
got to take a look at intelligence and do the best to qualify
and quantify.

The smartest guy isn't the guy with the most toys and money, to
me it's the guy who can go fishing when he wants to and where he
wants to. The guy who before he marries her is smart enough to
say, " Hey I wanna get a look at your mom first."

It would be wise to look at how much control over a group and
en- -vironment a super intelligent being can achieve. Would a
super intelligent being 'need' to? If we could achieve these
states of higher awareness and intellect what are we doing now
to arrest it?

Better yet, is there super intelligence or are we in general
arrested by some means ( i.e. dietary).

There are big pieces of the human puzzle here. This UFO stuff
falls right in to it. Until we take a better look at ourselves
and are willing to confront that what we really are may not fit
the comfortable or controlling viewpoints often thrust upon us
in youth, we'll still be digging around in the dark.


Best,

Greg







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                Re: UFO Magazine Folds After Editor's Death -

From: Joe McGonagle <joe.mcgonagle.nul>
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 16:12:34 -0000
Fwd Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 09:42:31 -0500
Subject: Re: UFO Magazine Folds After Editor's Death -


Hello Roy, List,

>>From: Joe McGonagle <joe.mcgonagle.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 08:38:52 -0000
>>Subject: Re: UFO Magazine Folds After Editor's Death
>
<snip>

>I received a question tonight from a friend of FSR, for Mr
>McGonagle.

>-----

>A statement by a friend of FSR.

>Mr Mcgonagle, You have spoken kind words of support for Flying
>Saucer Review and have offered your positive view on both the
>archive CD and the importance of having a national U.K. UFO
>journal.

>In order to better understand your long term position on both
>FSR and UFO magazine, for which you appear to be sincerely
>gathering support; I wonder if you might clear up the following
>statement you made on UpDates on 12th November 2003. How did the
>change in your position come about on the relative importance of
>these publications?

>If you remember you stated the following:

>Thu, 13 Nov 2003 08:25:34 -0500
>Subject: Re: BBC Radio 4 UFO Programme

>"You have excluded a multitude of other possible solutions in
>your belief that UFOs are of extraterrestrial origin. I mean the
>really unexplained and thoroughly investigated ones, not just
>stories that you read in FSR/UFO magazine/Junior Sc-fi weekly."
>-----

Roy, I am surprised that you couldn't answer the question for
your "friend of FSR", since you didn't query what I meant at the
time. However, I will spell it out for you both.

My remarks in the message which was posted to the List on 13th
November 2003 were in direct response to your post at:

http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2003/nov/m12-013.shtml

in which you wrote:

"Is your point truly valid? All you have told me, is that you
have considered thousands, and thousands, and thousands, and
thousands, and thousands of UFO sightings, and pilot
testimonies, and government testimonies, and public testimonies,
and astronomer testimonies, and every kind of human walking on
this planet testimonies, video evidence, photo evidence, radar
evidence, audio capture evidence, medical evidence still has not
convinced you of ET, now who is not being open minded, me or
you?"

Magazines and newspapers print stories and opinions mainly, and
not research. On the odd occasion when a magazine presents an
article as research, the so-called research does not always
stand up to scrutiny. I can think of at least two "major" cases
from Yorkshire to which that statement applies, and that is
without straining my memory whatsoever.

They are, however, often good sources on which to base follow-up
research.

To get back to the substance of my original post, I have been
in touch with Paul Whitehead of FSR, and he tells me that the
price of the CD-ROM does include UK postage, and also that a
discount of =A33 is currently being offered when the order is
accompanied by a magazine subscription, or ordered by an
existing subscriber, making it even better value.

For future reference, if there is anything in my posts that you
don't fully understand please feel free to ask for
clarification, ideally during the same year that I post!


Regards,

Joe








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   Mar > Mar 13

                       Re: Barry Chamish Site - Sandow

From: Greg Sandow <greg.nul>
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 12:27:13 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 09:44:46 -0500
Subject: Re: Barry Chamish Site - Sandow


>From: Greg Sandow [mailto:greg.nul]
>Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 10:32 PM
>To: 'ufoupdates.nul'
>Subject: RE: UFO UpDate: Re: Barry Chamish Site - Balaskas

I hadn't paid close enough attention to the news about Kerry's
Jewish ancestry. So for something else that Barry Chamish got
wrong, read on....

>>From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 17:04:36 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
>>Subject: Re: Barry Chamish Site

>>Are you really sure it was Barry Chamish's web site that you had a
>>look at?

>>As an investigative reporter Barry has done an excellent job in
>>documenting the assassination of Isreali Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin
>>and sharing many overlooked, little known and covered up facts with
>>the public that prove this murder was the result of a bigger
>>conspiracy rather than the act of a lone gunman as some still believe
>>was the case for the assassination of U.S.
>>President John Kennedy.

><snip>

>>If the stuff on Barry's web site does not interest you,
>that's fine,
>>but to rant on like some uninformed debunker is so
>untypical of you,
>>your e-mail surprised me. Were you implying that Barry is not a
>>credible source of information, including about UFOs?

>Here's what I found right at the top of the Barry Chamish site:

>"...And what did we recently discover; why Kerry is Jewish on
>his father's side. Somehow, he forgot the fact that his
>grandparents were prominent Jewish business people in Prague
>and that his father is 100% Jewish. Ask yourself, do you know
>anyone who doesn't know his father's religious background?
>As rare as it must be, that affliction runs rampant in CFR
>circles. Former CFR Secretary-of-State Madeleine Albright
>also forgot that both her parents were Jews, even though she
>was raised in the Jewish home of her relatives in London.
>If you don't feel like voting Kerry, there is Wesley Clark
>waiting in the wings. Uncannily, he is also a CFR member who
>only discovered his father was Jewish while he was burning
>Bosnia to ashes.
>Now how come, no matter which Democrat you choose, you get a
>CFR half-Jew who forgot all about it? The answer is found in
>the Sabbatean (also Shabbataian and similar spellings) policy
>of having their Jewish apostate followers converting and
>hiding their roots and beliefs."

>This sounds like raving madness to me. CFR, for those who
>haven't followed conspiracy thinking, is the Council on
>Foreign Relations, an organization some people think is
>secretly plotting the New World Order.

>Note all the completely wrong or at best highly debatable or
>exaggerated statements, about things just about everyone in
>America knows something about. Wesley Clark is waiting in the
>wings if you don't want to vote for Kerry? Not true; Clark
>dropped out of the race long ago. Wesley Clark burned Bosnia
>to ashes? Not exactly everyone's interpretation, but here
>stated as irrefutable fact. "No matter which Democrat you
>choose, you get a CFR half-Jew..."? Is Al Sharpton on the
>Council on Foreign Relations? Is Dick Gebhardt or Howard Dean
>Jewish? If this is how Chamish writes about simple things,
>things that have been in the American press every day (and
>which he could find out about even in Israel), then I
>wouldn't trust him to tell me that the sky is blue.

>And that's before we get to the really tangled stuff about
>the CFR and the Shabbateans.

The most obvious Chamish mistake here is something I didn't know
enough to mention - that Kerry's grandfather, not his father,
was the one who was actively Jewish. Chamish garbles this beyond
recognition. So I'll repeat: I wouldn't trust him to tell me
that the sky is blue.


Greg Sandow








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                         Seeking Life as We Know It

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 09:51:50 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 09:51:50 -0500
Subject: Seeking Life as We Know It




[UFO UpDates thanks Greg Boone for the lead.

 Greg's message, accompanying the URL said: "Quite a suprise
 to read this. An intelligent non-confrontational story on
 searching for extraterrestrial life."]

Source: The L.A. Times

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=3Dstory&u=3D/latimests/20040305/ts_lat=
imes/seekinglifeasweknowit

Fri Mar 5 2004


Seeking Life as We Know It
By K.C. Cole Times Staff Writer

Albert Einstein once famously wondered whether God had a choice
in how he created the universe. His unanswered question drives
physics to this day.

The same question could be asked about the biological universe =97
especially now that the rover Opportunity has found signs of
ancient standing water on Mars.

NASA (news - web sites)'s search for alien life is based on the
strategy "follow the water," and for obvious reasons.

The only life we know is built on a scaffolding of carbon that
floats in bags of water. Bacteria or brontosaurus, we're all
made from the same basic recipe.

But did life have a choice? Could it have evolved from entirely
different ingredients? In looking for water-based life in worlds
beyond, are we making the mistake of peering into a mirror?

Why not life in ethanol? suggested Cornell University's Roald
Hoffmann, a Nobel laureate in chemistry. Or ammonia?

"Now life in liquid ammonia, that would be colorful," said
Hoffmann, explaining that metals can dissolve in ammonia,
"giving bright blue solutions."

And why does the scaffolding have to be carbon?

Why not silicon, its neighbor on the periodic table of elements?

"We're so dumb about what life is because we only have one
example," said astrobiologist Chris McKay of NASA Ames Research
Center at Moffett Field, near the Bay Area city of Mountain
View. "It may be true that we sail through the universe and
everything we find is carbon and water, but I would hesitate to
conclude that based on the one example we have."

As a practical matter, NASA's strategy of following the water
makes good sense.

"We don't know how to do anything better," McKay said. "We're
too stupid to look for things if we don't know what they are."

At $820 million, the twin rover missions have to look at what's
most likely. "If you had to bet, what would you bet on?" asked
Stanford chemist Richard Zare.

Still, one has to wonder what else might be out there.

The search is complicated by the fact that scientists aren't
even sure what life is exactly. Bizarre new species are
discovered on Earth all the time in the most unlikely places.

"We even have trouble understanding what's alive and what's
dead," Zare said. "People still wonder what a virus is."

All life as we know it is spun from carbon-based threads
swimming in water solutions. Both carbon and water have unique =97
some say magical =97 properties. Indeed, physics and chemistry
strongly suggest that life might not have had a choice.



Water is the most eccentric of liquids. "It's this elusive,
magical, mystery molecule," said James Garvin, lead scientist
for the Mars exploration program at NASA headquarters in
Washington.

On the face of it, water seems a rather silly molecule =97 two
hydrogen atoms attached to an oxygen atom in a way that looks
like the head of Mickey Mouse. Even children know its chemical
formula: H2O.

But the bonds it forms with itself and other molecules are
anything but ordinary.

Atoms normally bond by sharing the negatively charged electrons
that buzz around their positively charged nuclei, like people
sharing popcorn at a movie.

In water, the oxygen shares one electron with each of its
hydrogens, leaving four extras. These clump together as "lone
pairs" that can grab onto other molecules like prehensile feet.

At the same time, the two positive hydrogen nuclei stick out the
other side like arms. The "feet" of one water molecule grab the
"arms" of the other, forming abnormally strong networks. Where
one water molecule goes, the others tend to follow. Thus, water
can climb tall trees =97 hand over foot, as it were =97 in defiance
of gravity, carrying nutrients from the soil to the leaves.

Chemists say they would expect water to be a gas at room
temperature because it's made up of just a few light atoms. But
the strong bonds make the molecules stick together in a liquid
form.

Luckily, the bonds aren't so sticky that they form a viscous gel
=97 something that Boston University physicist Eugene Stanley
initially found perplexing. Water flows freely, he and others
discovered, because water molecules stick to each other only
briefly, let go, grab another partner =97 whirling an ever-
changing cast of partners around in a molecular square dance.

The upshot is that water stays watery over a remarkable range of
temperatures (32 to 212 degrees Fahrenheit, to be exact).

This is a liquid bonanza for life, which seems to need some form
of fluid to transport things from place to place. In solids,
molecules stick together and can't go much of anywhere. In
gases, the molecules don't get close enough to interact.

Water's unbalanced geometry =97 positive charges on one side,
negative on the other =97 also gives it a distinctively
schizophrenic personality (although chemists, like
psychiatrists, prefer the term bipolar). This makes it an
excellent solvent.

One side of a molecule grabs on to negative charges; the other
side grabs the positive. This pulls most things apart, so water
can dissolve almost anything. (If things didn't dissolve, they'd
sink to the bottom, or rise to the top =97 not good for a free
flow of chemical reactions.)

Why doesn't life just disintegrate altogether in water then?
While water is one of the most strongly bipolar molecules, it is
not the most reactive =97 meaning it can make things fall apart
(dissolve) without changing their composition (react). So the
parts can be endlessly rearranged.

And as it turns out, the few things water doesn't dissolve are
equally important in assembling life's building blocks. Water
hates fat. "It won't dissolve a spot of grease on my nice silk
tie," Stanley said.

Water herds these hydrophobic (water-hating) and hydrophilic
(water-loving) molecules into structures such as cells. The
hydrophobes point away from each other, while the hydrophiles
look inward. "It's like circling the wagons," McKay said.

Water, in other words, gives living things outsides and insides.
The hostile outside is kept at bay, while inside, the proteins
behind nearly all of life's mechanisms go about their business.

"You have 3,000 proteins, minimally, in every cell," said
University of Massachusetts biologist Lynn Margulis, "and every
reaction requires water. Everything else is negotiable."

What's the water doing with the proteins exactly? "Everything,"
Margulis said. "It's like a loom that you can do the weaving in.
It's the matrix that's holding things in place. Nothing can go
on without it."

The magical molecule does a whole lot more: For example, it
absorbs heat slowly, and holds on to it for a long time. This
stabilizes temperatures not only in the oceans, but also inside
living things =97 which, lest we forget, are made mainly of water.

Finally, water expands when it freezes, contrary to nearly every
other substance known. That's why ice floats, allowing it to
form an insulating blanket on lakes and ponds for life beneath.
Without it, fish would freeze before they hit the grocer's
shelves.

Of course, it's hard to ignore one obvious reason life may
depend on water. Hydrogen is the most abundant element in the
universe. Helium is the second, but it's inert =97 so standoffish
it doesn't bond with other atoms at all. Oxygen comes third.
Maybe life is made of water simply because it's there.

But some otherwise habitable worlds just don't have water. Are
they out of luck?

Not necessarily. "Water's a wonderful molecule," McKay said,
"but there are other wonderful molecules."

Ethanol, or grain alcohol, would probably work, concurred UCLA
chemist Ken Houk. Proteins and nucleic acids are soluble in
ethanol. But the liquid is rare in nature because the chemistry
needed to produce it is complicated.

In contrast, water "is the easiest fluid to make," Garvin said.

As for ammonia (used in smelling salts), it's scarce on Earth,
but "you could easily have an ocean of ammonia," Houk said. In
fact, scientists speculate that Saturn's moon Titan could have
such an ocean. Life could certainly exist at the cold
temperatures at which ammonia is liquid (between minus 28
degrees and minus 108 degrees on Earth). Like water, ammonia is
polar, and an excellent solvent.

Even if water does turn out to be the beverage of choice for
quenching life's insatiable thirst, does that mean carbon has to
be in the mix too?

Many scientists think it does.

"I feel more strongly about carbon than about water," said David
Des Marais, an astrobiologist at NASA Ames Research Center.

Again, there's an abundance argument. Carbon is the fourth-most
common element. And life grabs the ingredients at hand.

Carbon also has unique properties that allow it to form long
chains and rings easily.

Think of carbon as a small atom with four Velcro (actually
electronic) attachment points. One, two or three of these can
form links with other atoms, giving carbon enormous versatility.

Almost anything can find a way to attach. So carbon just
naturally makes the kinds of complex molecules life needs.

Like water, carbon is a Goldilocks substance: It forms strong,
stable bonds, but not so strong that those bonds can't break off
and attach to something else. "You have this kind of texture,"
Margulis said, "a range of properties that change in very subtle
ways."

Carbon's closest competitor, silicon, is not so subtle. Sitting
right below carbon on the periodic table of elements, it also
has four attachment points, but it's heavier and has different
chemical properties.

It can make long chains if you add oxygen, for example. But then
everything it touches turns to stone. "It locks on to things,
and folks, it's over," Zare said. "It's very hard to break the
bonds. It's like rigor mortis." So virtually any attempt at
metabolism as we know it would produce something solid.

Solid silicon compounds are already familiar =97 as rocks, glass,
gels, bricks and, of course, medical implants.

Life seems to have ignored silicon, except here and there as
structural material in rice, grasses and microscopic algae. How
ironic, Hoffmann noted, that the silicon worlds we build
ourselves (computers, electronics) now dominate our lives. "This
is silicon's revenge!"

If there were such a thing as silicon life, it would have to be
built on an entirely different biological model. It probably
would be stiff =97 unable to breathe, for example, as we do.

"You'd have to give up not just carbon but the whole pattern,"
McKay said. "We live as bags of liquid. A better model [for
silicon life] is more like computers, a rigid life form that
gets its energy from some electrochemical means directly."

Just because we do our chemistry on the inside, he said, doesn't
mean all life does. Silicon life might do its chemistry on the
surface.

But if silicon life appeared on ancient Earth along with carbon
life, as some speculate (rather wildly) that it might have, it
wouldn't stand a chance from an evolutionary perspective.

"You might be able to make living things out of different
materials," said UCLA planetary scientist David Paige. "But I'm
comfortable with the idea that the life we are is the best that
we could do given the constraints of our environment and the
laws of physics and chemistry."

Those laws of physics and chemistry apply to the entire
universe, so life elsewhere, Paige speculates, might well look
familiar. "If we find a planet that's covered with water, the
life forms are likely to look like fish, because there's a good
reason fish look like fish and dolphins and submarines."

Of course, life can't spring from carbon and water alone.

At a minimum, life also needs some form of energy =97 the kind we
use from the sun, or the heat of radioactive decay from deep
inside the Earth, or tidal friction that comes from being a
large moon (like Titan) orbiting a large planet.

Life, at its essence, is a mechanism for turning energy into
order.

Many purely physical processes do that as well: Gravity herds
stars into galaxies. The late Columbia University physicist
Gerald Feinberg and New York University biochemist Robert
Shapiro speculated that what they called "physical life" could
exist in solid hydrogen, in neutron stars, even in interstellar
clouds, living on the energy of radiation. This "radiant life"
would consist of individual beings they called "radiobes."

"It may be difficult to think of such systems of being alive,"
they acknowledged in an article included in the collection
"Extraterrestrials: Where Are They?" But our own biochemistry =97
based on proteins and nucleic acids =97 does little "to convey the
wonders, such as elephants and Sequoia trees, that ultimately
arise from it."

Would we recognize these alternative life forms if we saw them?
Probably not.

"Our imagination is biased by what we're able to see," Paige
said. "We can't be as clever as the universe. So we have to be
careful."

One of the mistakes of the 1976 Viking missions to Mars, Paige
said, was looking for life that was "too lifelike." Life, for
example, that eats familiar kinds of food, thrives in similar
environments.

Since that time, scientists have discovered bizarre new
biological worlds of so-called extremophiles on Earth, thriving
in places where life was thought to be impossible =97 such as
boiling-hot vents at the bottom of the ocean, shut off from
sunlight, subsisting on hydrogen sulfide.

These life forms (giant tube worms, for example) came as a
complete surprise. Now, many scientists believe they may be our
earliest ancestors.

More surprises are certainly in store. "We still don't
understand how life works," Houk said. "It's utterly miraculous.
Even though it's sitting there and staring us in the face, we
don't understand it."

-----










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   Mar > Mar 13

                       Re: UFOs & Fairies? - Dickenson

From: Ray Dickenson <editor.nul>
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 18:32:24 +0000
Fwd Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 10:07:54 -0500
Subject: Re: UFOs & Fairies? - Dickenson


>From: Trevor Seguin <h0riz0n.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 19:05:59 -0500
>Subject: Re: UFOs & Fairies?

>The reference to The Green Man as father nature is very ancient
>I recommend those interested google "The fairy Children" its
>and old tale of Two fairy children, who claim to be of a race
>with green skin.


Thanks for the incentive Trevor (M.o.U)

That tale of the green-skinned (foreign/alien) children is given
at:

http://www.sacred-texts.com/neu/celt/tfm/tfm107.htm

from Ralph (Abbot of Coggeshall 1207 - 1218) and added to by
William of Newbridge (another monk?) who says the girl survived
and married a local man - so fairly human-like at least (any
offspring?).

But, as you say, we have a now much older "green man" to check
out.

A slightly frustrating reference is at:

http://www.pantheon.org/areas/folklore/folklore/articles.html?/articles/g/green_
man.html

"A legendary pagan deity"

But now the real problem is at:

http://www.perceptions.couk.com/talltales.txt

which shows how oral (and written) legends and records were
erased or corrupted by christian priest and monks, who had a
monopoly of literacy for several hundred years.

However, there's some large Keltic (Irish) folk tale books in
the piles somewhere - maybe get back to you in a month (or year)
or so.

Cheers,

Ray D


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Perceptions" http://www.perceptions.couk.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~







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                        Re: UFOs & Fairies? - Kaeser

From: Steven Kaeser <steve.nul>
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 14:15:45 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 10:10:15 -0500
Subject: Re: UFOs & Fairies? - Kaeser


>From: Trevor Seguin <h0riz0n.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 19:05:59 -0500
>Subject: Re: UFOs & Fairies?

>>From: Ray Dickenson <editor.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 17:55:44 +0000
>>Subject: Re: UFOs & Fairies?

>>>From: Steven Kaeser <steve.nul>
>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 08:51:26 -0500
>>>Subject: Re: UFOs & Fairies?

><snip>

>>So, coming back to your "Father Nature" figure (which is how I'd
>>previously seen "the green man" myself) - that would be valid
>>_if_ there was no nature god in the pantheon when the green man
>>first arose.

>>I'll have to re-look at Greek/Roman stuff to be sure but that
>>doesn't seem to be the case, and if so either the green man is a
>>much older "nature Myth" - or was invented to explain something
>>anomalous (& also very ancient).

><snip>

>The reference to The Green Man as father nature is very ancient.
>He is not represented so much in Greek and Roman mythos, but
>more, in British and Gaelic Myth and folklore. The people of
>that area evolved with a great affinity to nature. They knew,
>being farmers that there lives depended on the seasons and on
>the crops of that year.

<snip>

Very good explanation, Trevor. I think the 'Green Man' is likely
to be unrelated to modern 'Little Green Men', who are (I
believe) mentioned more in UFO literature than they are by UFO
witnesses. Of course, a number of people have written about the
background of that phrase, and its a discussion that has not
ended (I'm sure).

This discussion alludes to the question of myths and how they
might relate to what we are today calling "UFOs". Joseph
Campbell (author of The Power of the Myth) speaks of very basic
myths that may be programmed into our brain at birth. These may
be little more than impressions and vague beliefs, but he found
that all cultures seemed to have a few very similar mythological
beliefs in spite of no known relationship between those
cultures. How these vague impressions or beliefs evolved in each
was determined in part by the technology and the structure of
that society, but there were often basic common threads. One
example is that of the 'Great Flood', which appears to exist in
all pre-historic cultures in one form or another. It has become
a central part of the Old Testament, but the flood is also
mentioned in the early history of other cultures.

I think there is much to be learned from an examination of how
man's beliefs have evolved over time, and what has effected that
evolution of ideas. When we understand how we identify that
which we believe to be true, we have a better chance of
understanding that which we can't readily identify. We all view
the world around us through the filter of our beliefs and faith,
which we can't help. A better understanding of how that filter
is contructed would be most beneficial (albeit a little boring
for most of those who already "know" the answers).


Steve








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                         Re: JPL's Mars UFO - White

From: Eleanor White <eleanor.nul>
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 17:44:46 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 10:11:49 -0500
Subject: Re: JPL's Mars UFO - White


>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 18:25:20 -0400
>Subject: Re: JPL's Mars UFO

>Note the interesting use of "UFO" in this JPL URL re an anomally
>in the Martian sky taken by Rover's cameras.

This may be a link in the ponderously long chain of "micro
releases" showing the reality that UFOs are artificial craft.
Great way to break it slowly to Earthlings who could not
possibly keep their heads on straight if someone told them
outright.


Eleanor White








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                 NASA News Briefing On Unusual Solar Object

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 10:19:36 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 10:19:36 -0500
Subject: NASA News Briefing On Unusual Solar Object





Donald Savage/Dwayne Brown
Headquarters, Washington
(Phone: 202/358-1547/1726)

Jane Platt
Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif.
(Phone: 818/354-0880)

March 12, 2004
NOTE TO EDITORS : N04-040


NASA Schedules News Briefing About Unusual Solar Object

The discovery of a mysterious object in our solar system is the
topic of a listen-and-log-on news briefing on Monday, March 15,
at 1 p.m. EST.

Dr. Michael Brown, associate professor of planetary astronomy,
California Institute of Technology, Pasadena, Calif. will
present his discovery of the most distant object ever detected
orbiting the sun. He and colleagues made the discovery as part
of a NASA-funded research project.

The virtual news briefing is only for reporters. Reporters in
the United States can listen to the briefing and participate in
the question-and-answer session by calling:

<snip>

Graphics supporting this news briefing will be posted Monday on
the Internet by 1 p.m. EST:

http://www.spitzer.caltech.edu/Media/releases/ssc2004-05/telecon/

Images and information about this discovery will be on the Internet at:

http://www.spitzer.caltech.edu/Media/releases/ssc2004-05

and

http://www.nasa.gov


- end -








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   Mar > Mar 13

                     Martian Lego Blocks And Toblerones

From: Colin Stevenson <colsweb.nul>
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 12:29:23 -0000
Fwd Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 10:23:42 -0500
Subject: Martian Lego Blocks And Toblerones


Do Martians play, or did they play, with 5 meter size Lego
blocks to creating circles and structures seen on

http://www.colsweb.com/MarsSettlements.htm

which shows extracted 3 x enlargements from

http://www.msss.com/moc_gallery/e07_e12/full_gif_non_map/E10/E1001841.gif

and do, did they, use a 2 Toblerone craft to position them?


col








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                     Astronomer Seeks Life Beyond Earth

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 05:42:38 -0800
Fwd Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 10:25:35 -0500
Subject: Astronomer Seeks Life Beyond Earth


Source: LA Monitor - Los Angeles

http://www.lamonitor.com/articles/2004/03/12/headline_news/news03.txt

Saturday, March 13, 2004

Astronomer seeks life beyond Earth

Roger Snodgrass
Monitor Assistant Editor
roger.nul,

If there are many billions of stars in every galaxy and billions
and billions of galaxies, there must be at least billions of
earth-like planets like ours and therefore plenty of
opportunities for life to form and evolve.

So, where is it?

That was what Enrico Fermi wanted to know. The Hungarian nuclear
physicist, who was closely associated with the formative years
of Los Alamos, asked why, with all that potential, we still had
no indisputable evidence for one living cell of life outside of
earth, much less the obvious signs of intelligent life, like
alien space probes or radio chatter.

Those who subscribe to the Fermi Paradox, as it is known, say
that the simplest explanation is that we are alone.

But many others, including Jill Tarter, beg to differ. Tarter is
the director of the Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence
(SETI) Institute in Mountain View, Calif.

In a presentation at the Expanding Your Horizons workshop here
Thursday, and an expanded presentation later that evening at the
Bradbury Science Museum, she made a case for the importance of
the search itself.

"My bottom line is - the search I helped to start may take a
very long time, and may take some one like you to finish it.,"
she told the audience of 150 eighth through tenth graders,
attending a career conference in Los Alamos.

Tarter quoted from one of the pioneers of SETI research and
another prominent figure from the Manhattan Project. Philip
Morrison concluded a 1959 paper in Nature magazine with the
line, "The probability of success is difficult to estimate; but
if we never search, the probability of success is zero,"

Life is a planetary phenomenon. The only life we know so far
lives on a watery planet, not too close and not too far from a
star with a long period of stable energy production, explained
Tarter, a set of parameters that has focused astronomers to
search for similar conditions in our galactic neighborhood.

One result has been the discovery, so far, of 120 planets
orbiting 105 other stars. "But good planets are hard to find,"
Tarter said. The planets that have been identified appear to be
heavy gas giants, like the planets Jupiter and Saturn in our
system, and closer to their star.

A NASA spacecraft called Kepler, scheduled to launch in 2007,
will specifically search for earth-like planets in a patch of
sky containing 100,000 stars.

Other SETI projects have used radio and optical telescopes to
listen and watch for interstellar signs of life, radio
frequencies and optical wavelengths that might indicate an
intelligent source.

Tartar has worked on at least three such programs, most recently
Project Phoenix, a privately funded venture that used the 1000-
meter telescope at Arecibo, Puerto Rico, to tune in to about
1,000 individuals stars. The search was within the one to three
Megahertz range, a little higher than FM radio. Millions of
channels were searched at the same time, and two billion
channels altogether.

Although no solid evidence for intelligent life materialized,
those stars encompassing a mere 200 light years (6 trillion
miles), are a mere fraction of candidates in our galaxy alone.

"Unfortunately, the universe is quite enormous," said Tarter.

Soon, SETI will field another instrument, the Allen Telescope
Array. Assuming the funding requirements are met, the project
going up in northern California will grow from 32 small radio
telescopes to 350 dishes by 2007.

"I don't know when or even if we'll get a signal."

Meanwhile, explorations of Mars will continue, as well as new
probes to the icy moons of Jupiter, where vast oceans and
energy, hint at the possibility for life.

"Can life make a living under the ice?" Tarter asked. Finding
life that has evolved independently from Earth would be a major
step toward establishing that life exists in elsewhere in the
stars.

From the audience came the question, "If we do get a signal, how
are we going to say hello?"

Tarter said her program had signed a protocol agreeing not to
answer, until there is a global consensus on how to answer.








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                Re: UFO Magazine Folds After Editor's Death -

From: Stuart Miller <Stuart.Miller4.nul>
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 15:17:26 -0000
Fwd Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 10:31:18 -0500
Subject: Re: UFO Magazine Folds After Editor's Death -


>From: Joe McGonagle <joe.mcgonagle.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 16:12:34 -0000
>Subject: Re: UFO Magazine Folds After Editor's Death

>>From: Roy Hale <roy.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 05:26:54 -0000
>>Subject: Re: UFO Magazine Folds After Editor's Death

><snip>

>>"You have excluded a multitude of other possible solutions in
>>your belief that UFOs are of extraterrestrial origin. I mean the
>>really unexplained and thoroughly investigated ones, not just
>>stories that you read in FSR/UFO magazine/Junior Sc-fi weekly."
>>-----

>Roy, I am surprised that you couldn't answer the question for
>your "friend of FSR", since you didn't query what I meant at the
>time. However, I will spell it out for you both.

>My remarks in the message which was posted to the List on 13th
>November 2003 were in direct response to your post at:

>http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2003/nov/m12-013.shtml

>in which you wrote:

>"Is your point truly valid? All you have told me, is that you
>have considered thousands, and thousands, and thousands, and
>thousands, and thousands of UFO sightings, and pilot
>testimonies, and government testimonies, and public testimonies,
>and astronomer testimonies, and every kind of human walking on
>this planet testimonies, video evidence, photo evidence, radar
>evidence, audio capture evidence, medical evidence still has not
>convinced you of ET, now who is not being open minded, me or
>you?"

>Magazines and newspapers print stories and opinions mainly, and
>not research. On the odd occasion when a magazine presents an
>article as research, the so-called research does not always
>stand up to scrutiny. I can think of at least two "major" cases
>from Yorkshire to which that statement applies, and that is
>without straining my memory whatsoever.

>They are, however, often good sources on which to base follow-up
>research.

>To get back to the substance of my original post, I have been in
>touch with Paul Whitehead of FSR, and he tells me that the price
>of the CD-ROM does include UK postage, and also that a discount
>of =A33 is currently being offered when the order is accompanied
>by a magazine subscription, or ordered by an existing
>subscriber, making it even better value.

>For future reference, if there is anything in my posts that you
>don't fully understand please feel free to ask for
>clarification, ideally during the same year that I post!

Joe,

Try answering the point.

Why, in one post, do you refer to FSR in a derisable manner and
in another one laud it and tell us all to read it?

Which is it?

Stuart Miller








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              Re: NASA News Briefing On Unusual Solar Object -

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 10:34:43 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 10:51:31 -0500
Subject: Re: NASA News Briefing On Unusual Solar Object -


>From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>To: <- UFO UpDates Subscribers ->
>Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 10:19:36 -0500
>Subject: UFO UpDate: NASA News Briefing On Unusual Solar Object

>Donald Savage/Dwayne Brown
>Headquarters, Washington
>(Phone: 202/358-1547/1726)

>Jane Platt
>Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif.
>(Phone: 818/354-0880)

>March 12, 2004
>NOTE TO EDITORS : N04-040

>NASA Schedules News Briefing About Unusual Solar Object

>The discovery of a mysterious object in our solar system is the
>topic of a listen-and-log-on news briefing on Monday, March 15,
>at 1 p.m. EST.

>Dr. Michael Brown, associate professor of planetary astronomy,
>California Institute of Technology, Pasadena, Calif. will
>present his discovery of the most distant object ever detected
>orbiting the sun. He and colleagues made the discovery as part
>of a NASA-funded research project.

>The virtual news briefing is only for reporters. Reporters in
>the United States can listen to the briefing and participate in
>the question-and-answer session by calling:

><snip>

Hello List Members and others,

Don't expect the finding to reveal any object of alien
technology. Use of the words "mysterious object" in the context
of a UFO list could lead to uninformed speculation that would be
'way out in left field'. It is a purely natural body, as you
will learn on Monday (if you haven't, already).


Ray Stanford

"You know my method. It is founded upon the observance of
trifles." -- Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery








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                 Re: We Need To Talk 'Intelligence' - Hatch

From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 07:41:04 -0800
Fwd Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 10:52:44 -0500
Subject: Re: We Need To Talk 'Intelligence' - Hatch


>From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 10:58:03 EST
>Subject: We Need To Talk 'Intelligence'

>In this field, UFO research we often marvel at how such craft
>could be constructed and perform.

>Apotheosis not withstanding, such feats might be considered
>paranormal or coming from 'the gods' or some such.

<snip>


Hello Greg:

After this, it would be best if you credit your sources.
Otherwise, there might me confusion as to who wrote what.


Best wishes

- Larry Hatch








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                        Re: JPL's Mars UFO - Balaskas

From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul>
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 11:10:35 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
Fwd Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 11:55:55 -0500
Subject: Re: JPL's Mars UFO - Balaskas


>From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 08:22:32 -0600
>Subject: Re: JPL's Mars UFO

>>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
>>To:  ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 18:25:20 -0400
>>Subject: Re: JPL's Mars UFO

>>Note the interesting use of "UFO" in this JPL URL re an anomally
>>in the Martian sky taken by Rover's cameras.

>>I wonder, would this be a time lapse of Earth?

>>Watch the wrap, the URL is long.

>>http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/press/spirit/20040311a/Earth_Sol63A_UFO
-A067R1.jpg

>I know they were going to try and image the moons. I'm guessing
>(debunking) that this might be one of them, on a time-lapse
>photo.

Hi Everyone!

Good try Tim, but you would not make a very convincing debunker!

If you read the text that accompanied the UFO image, the streak
in the picture was most likely produced by an orbiting
spacecraft and was not one of Mars' two known small moons or
even a meteor.

These two Martian moons were photographed by the Opportunity
rover (Deimos on March 4 and Phobos 7 on March 7) as they
crossed the face of the Sun and would have a large angular size
as seen from the surface of Mars. The brightness or thickness of
this streak and its orientation relative to the Martian horizon
agrees with NASA's belief that it is more likely to be a
spacecraft and that it is in a polar orbit.

Meteors do produce luminous streaks but they do not appear and
disappear so abruptly. Long exposures of orbiting satellites
with a camera would produce this effect though. Although the Sun
was already below the Martian horizon, if what was photographed
was indeed a spacecraft orbiting high above the planet, it would
still shine brightly from the direct rays from the Sun. This
would suggest that this image was a large object in space and
would rule out Martian birds, bugs or wind blown soil which
would be appear dark in the night sky.

Since all planets, their moons, asteroids and even the dust
particles of the Zodiacal Light in our inner solar system orbit
the Sun generally in one plane and not randomly in any plane in
3 dimensional space, for this reason the streak is unlikely to
be a previously unknown captured asteroid or new moon of Mars.

Conclusion: Unless it can be proven that NASA's Viking 1 and 2
motherships are still in orbit around Mars over a quarter of a
century later, what we have here is a real UFO in the Martian
sky! Thanks to Don Ledger for bring it to our attention and to
Terry Grogg for the news article about another UFO in a picture
of UK's Beagle 2 flying saucer shaped lander that had just
separated from it's Mars Express mothership.

If that elongated star-like image that is oriented in a
direction pointing towards Beagle 2 is a projectile (unless the
picture was cropped, the streak's non-radial orientation cannot
easily be explained as an optical abberation), who knows, but we
may have triggered the Martian Stars Wars defense system once
again!  ;o)


Nick Balaskas








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              Re: NASA News Briefing On Unusual Solar Object -

From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul>
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 11:22:45 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
Fwd Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 11:58:18 -0500
Subject: Re: NASA News Briefing On Unusual Solar Object -


>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 10:34:43 -0500
>Subject: Re: NASA News Briefing On Unusual Solar Object

>>From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>To: <- UFO UpDates Subscribers ->
>>Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 10:19:36 -0500
>>Subject: UFO UpDate: NASA News Briefing On Unusual Solar Object

<snip>

>>NASA Schedules News Briefing About Unusual Solar Object

>>The discovery of a mysterious object in our solar system is the
>>topic of a listen-and-log-on news briefing on Monday, March 15,
>>at 1 p.m. EST.

>>Dr. Michael Brown, associate professor of planetary astronomy,
>>California Institute of Technology, Pasadena, Calif. will
>>present his discovery of the most distant object ever detected
>>orbiting the sun. He and colleagues made the discovery as part
>>of a NASA-funded research project.

>>The virtual news briefing is only for reporters. Reporters in
>>the United States can listen to the briefing and participate in
>>the question-and-answer session by calling:

>><snip>

>Hello List Members and others,

>Don't expect the finding to reveal any object of alien
>technology. Use of the words "mysterious object" in the context
>of a UFO list could lead to uninformed speculation that would be
>'way out in left field'. It is a purely natural body, as you
>will learn on Monday (if you haven't, already).

Hi Everyone!

Below is an e-mail I sent to my friend Brad Snell (producer and
host of the 'Cosmic Horizons' radio show at York University's
Glendon College campus where I am frequently on as a co-host)
regarding this announcement that I would like to share with you
too. Information embargos prevent me from being more specific
here.

"Astronomer Michael Brown is co-discoverer of a small planet (or
planetoid?) well beyond the orbit of Neptune (in the Kuiper belt
region of our solar system that also includes Pluto and its
large moon companion, Charon). This new planet was found on
February 17 of this year and has been tentatively named "2004
DW". My guess is that at this NASA news briefing they will
announce that this tenth planet of our solar system is as large
or larger than Pluto, the nineth planet which was discovered in
1930.

http://www.rense.com/general50/mys.htm

The search for a brown dwarf (a very large planet or small very
faint sun) companion to our Sun is still going on with infrared
telescopes on Earth and in space. If such an object is ever
found and it is determined that it sometimes passes through the
Oort cloud region of our solar system where numerous large
comets are suspected to exist, then its gravitational influence
may deflect some of these comets or giant balls of ice from
their orbits so they fall towards the Sun. Some may even hit
Earth. The melted water from these comets could produce a global
flood that has not happened here since the days of Noah.

If I were psychic, I would predict that within the next 30
months this brown dwarf will be discovered making our Sun a
member of a binary star system. I will even go further and say
that living dinosaurs will be found in the Congo region of
Africa or unfossilized remains that prove dinosaurs co-existed
with man (and were very likely passengers on Noah's Ark too!)."
 ;o)


Nick Balaskas








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                Re: UFO Magazine Folds After Editor's Death -

From: Joe McGonagle <joe.mcgonagle.nul>
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 16:30:38 +0000
Fwd Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 12:00:20 -0500
Subject: Re: UFO Magazine Folds After Editor's Death -


>From: Stuart Miller <Stuart.Miller4.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 15:17:26 -0000
>Subject: UFO Magazine Folds After Editor's Death

>>From: Joe McGonagle <joe.mcgonagle.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 16:12:34 -0000
>>Subject: Re: UFO Magazine Folds After Editor's Death

>>>From: Roy Hale <roy.nul>
>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 05:26:54 -0000
>>>Subject: Re: UFO Magazine Folds After Editor's Death

<snip>

>Joe,

>Try answering the point.

>Why, in one post, do you refer to FSR in a derisable manner and
>in another one laud it and tell us all to read it?

>Which is it?


Boy, this is hard work.....

My comments were not critical of the publication, but of
_how_people_interpret_the_contents, ie, accepting everything
that appears on TV or in print as immutable fact, without
questioning the depth of research, the motivation of the author,
and sometimes even the rationality of the article amongst other
things.

Roy quoted "thousands, and thousands, and thousands, and
thousands, and thousands of UFO sightings" to support his
contention that UFOs must be extraterrestrial in origin (not
extradimensional, extratemporal, or just mistaken
identifications). I effectively suggested that he shouldn't
simply accept the stories that he reads (eg in FSR or UFO
Magazine) at face value without considering the questions
mentioned above.


Regards,

Joe







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                        Re: Apollo 16 Film - Fleming

From: Lan Fleming <lfleming5.nul>
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 10:34:03 -0600
Fwd Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 12:01:50 -0500
Subject: Re: Apollo 16 Film - Fleming


I wrote a quickie web article about whether the Apollo 16 image
could be a reflection. It gets too hard to talk about things
like this without diagrams, equations, and pictures.

http://www.vgl.org/webfiles/apollo16-ufo/REFLECT.htm


My conclusion is that it could be a reflection from something in
the cabin, but probably not of the camera lens. I agree that
Nakamura dismissed the possibility of internal reflections too
quickly without looking at the problem quantitatively.








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                        Re: UFOs & Fairies? - Bright

From: Dan Bright <ufo.nul>
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 17:00:26 -0000
Fwd Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 09:56:18 -0500
Subject: Re: UFOs & Fairies? - Bright


>From: Steven Kaeser <steve.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 14:15:45 -0500
>Subject: Re: UFOs & Fairies?

>One example is that of the
>'Great Flood', which appears to exist in all pre-historic
>cultures in one form or another. It has become a central part of
>the Old Testament, but the flood is also mentioned in the early
>history of other cultures.

Hello Steve,

Regarding the 'Great Flood' myths, one of the most popular
writers on this subject is Graham Hancock, who in his latest
book "Underworld" proposes that a number of highly advanced
civilisations disappeared at the end of the last Ice Age due to
rising water levels around the globe. He argues that much
ancient flood mythology may have it's roots in the actuality of
such a series of events, the memory of which has been passed
down in culture and story-telling throughout the ages.

However, I haven't studied his claims in any detail so I'm
unable to speak to the validity of his theories. His website is
here:

http://www.grahamhancock.com/

Best to all,

Dan

--
Dan Bright
www.UFOresearch.org








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             Re: UFO Magazine Folds After Editor's Death - Burns

From: Max Burns <max.burns.nul>
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 17:24:53 -0000
Fwd Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 10:00:38 -0500
Subject: Re: UFO Magazine Folds After Editor's Death - Burns


>From: Joe McGonagle <joe.mcgonagle.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 16:30:38 +0000
>Subject: Re: UFO Magazine Folds After Editor's Death

>>From: Stuart Miller <Stuart.Miller4.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 15:17:26 -0000
>>Subject: UFO Magazine Folds After Editor's Death

>>>From: Joe McGonagle <joe.mcgonagle.nul>
>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 16:12:34 -0000
>>>Subject: Re: UFO Magazine Folds After Editor's Death

>>>>From: Roy Hale <roy.nul>
>>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>>Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 05:26:54 -0000
>>>>Subject: Re: UFO Magazine Folds After Editor's Death

><snip>

>>Try answering the point.

>>Why, in one post, do you refer to FSR in a derisable manner and
>>in another one laud it and tell us all to read it?

>>Which is it?

>Boy, this is hard work.....

>My comments were not critical of the publication, but of
>_how_people_interpret_the_contents, ie, accepting everything
>that appears on TV or in print as immutable fact, without
>questioning the depth of research, the motivation of the author,
>and sometimes even the rationality of the article amongst other
>things.

>Roy quoted "thousands, and thousands, and thousands, and
>thousands, and thousands of UFO sightings" to support his
>contention that UFOs must be extraterrestrial in origin (not
>extradimensional, extratemporal, or just mistaken
>identifications). I effectively suggested that he shouldn't
>simply accept the stories that he reads (eg in FSR or UFO
>Magazine) at face value without considering the questions
>mentioned above.


Stuart, Roy, EBK and Listers.

Nice explanation, however based on that logic the writer of this
post believes everything negative he has heard about me. Nothing
positive is to be listened to. The writer of this post is
believing his 'info', even though it has been supplied to him
by two researchers who are proven planters of dis-information
hoaxers, etc.

So I say, dont believe all you have heard especially when it has
come from people who are proven to be untruthful, who do not
even know me. Nor does the writer of this post.

Hey, its doesnt stop him believing all he hears when it suits
him.

Work that one out.

Max







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   Mar > Mar 14

                  Re: Depressing But Instructive - Maccabee

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 12:50:28 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 10:02:33 -0500
Subject: Re: Depressing But Instructive - Maccabee


>From: John Harney <magonia.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 21:20:28 -0000
>Subject: Re: Depressing But Instructive

>>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 13:54:40 +0000
>>Subject: Re: Depressing But Instructive

<snip>

>>such things as high altitude, high-speed pelicans;

>The Kenneth Arnold sighting? The pelican hypothesis is one of
>several suggested explanations. Of course the the chief
>objection to it is that one needs to assume that Arnold's
>estimates of speeds and distances were very inaccurate.

Yes, one objection is that Arnold's estimates of speed and
distances must have been (very) wrong for pelicans to be an
acceptable hypothesis.

This ties in with my previous (several years ago) challenge to
"draw a map"  to show how Arnold's reported speed and directions
of travel (eastward and then turning southward briefly) would
compare with the direction(southward) and speed (50 mph or less)
 of assumed pelicans.

It is my contention that there is no "map" that would produce a
sighting consistent with Arnold's description of what happened
if the objects were... pelicans.....








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                        Re: JPL's Mars UFO - Fleming

From: Lan Fleming <lfleming5.nul>
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 12:09:11 -0600
Fwd Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 10:06:14 -0500
Subject: Re: JPL's Mars UFO - Fleming


>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 18:25:20 -0400
>Subject: JPL's Mars UFO

>Note the interesting use of "UFO" in this JPL URL re an anomally
>in the Martian sky taken by Rover's cameras.

That's not the only one. It looks like this Navcam image shows
"UFOs" going every which ways:

http://tinyurl.com/2va5q

http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/2/n/067/2N132275207EFF1700P1562R0M1.H
TML

The image was taken at 1:54 local solar time, so I assume this
is a photo of the night sky. I doubt that ALL the streaks in
this image could be old NASA or Russian satellites. I'd hazard a
guess that they're meteors.







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                 Re: We Need To Talk 'Intelligence' - Lemire

From: Todd Lemire <tlemire.nul>
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 15:10:22 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 10:08:24 -0500
Subject: Re: We Need To Talk 'Intelligence' - Lemire


>From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 10:58:03 EST
>Subject: We Need To Talk 'Intelligence'

<snip>

>It would be wise to look at how much control over a group and
>environment a super intelligent being can achieve. Would a
>super intelligent being 'need' to? If we could achieve these
>states of higher awareness and intellect what are we doing now
>to arrest it?

>Better yet, is there super intelligence or are we in general
>arrested by some means ( i.e. dietary).

<snip>

Greg,

A favorite quote from Ray Fowler fits perfectly here.

"Know that there is a Creator-Sustainer, who has made Himself
knowable to Creation in direct proportion to the creatures
ability to comprehend and respond." - From the Andreasson Legacy
by Raymond E. Fowler

Whose to say that we're arresting our ability to achieve higher
intelligence Greg?  Are we as a 'group' or 'intelligence' ready
to accept the responsibility that goes along with 'higher
intelligence'?  My opinion says we're not.

Another quote from Mr. Fowler is "One billion years ago, the
highest form of life on earth was a simple wormlike animal.  The
creatures that dwell on planets only one billion years older
than earth may possess an intelligence that surpasses us by as
much as we surpass the worm!" Ray Fowler - The Watchers

Could we even comprehend a higher intelligence if it was to
smack us on the lips?  What if our individual intelligence is
determined by each person's ability to draw from the groups
'collective intelligence'?  How can we determine a maximum level
of intelligence via the limited use of our brain?  Where does a
level of psi intelligence fit into here or does it?  Can we even
compare the two?

Who are the 'we' you speak of who assumes that intelligence is
directly tied into 'technological gizmos'?  I feel that a higher
level of intelligence or awareness or an increase in the ability
of one to manipulate their consciousness would possibly lead
directly away from the dependence on 'technological gizmos'.

I feel, as Ray Fowler states, that we will only perceive what
our current level of intelligence will allow us to comprehend.


My two cents worth,

Todd Lemire










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                Re: UFO Magazine Folds After Editor's Death -

From: Joe McGonagle <joe.mcgonagle.nul>
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 20:56:03 -0000
Fwd Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 10:10:50 -0500
Subject: Re: UFO Magazine Folds After Editor's Death -


>From: Joe McGonagle <joe.mcgonagle.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 16:12:34 -0000
>Subject: UFO Magazine Folds After Editor's Death

>>From: Joe McGonagle <joe.mcgonagle.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 08:38:52 -0000
>>Subject: Re: UFO Magazine Folds After Editor's Death

<snip>

>To get back to the substance of my original post, I have been
>in touch with Paul Whitehead of FSR, and he tells me that the
>price of the CD-ROM does include UK postage, and also that a
>discount of =A33 is currently being offered when the order is
>accompanied by a magazine subscription, or ordered by an
>existing subscriber, making it even better value.

Hello List,

Apologies are in order here:

The discount referred to above is incorrect, it _may_ apply to
any future, more contemporary issues of the CD-ROM, but does not
apply to the older material. Sorry for any confusion caused by
my error.


Regards,

Joe








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                   Muncaster Castle Paranormal Conference

From: Philip Mantle <suemantle.nul>
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 21:19:12 -0000
Fwd Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 10:15:37 -0500
Subject: Muncaster Castle Paranormal Conference


FIRST NATIONAL MUNCASTER PARANORMAL CONFERENCE

Saturday 27th - Sunday 28th March 2004

10.00am - 5.30pm

Presentations will be given on a variety of fields such as,
Apparitions & Hauntings, Out-of-Body and Near-Death-Experiences,
and UFO's. Plus Dr. Jason Braithwaite, Muncaster's resident
apparitional expert and director of scientific investigations
for 12 years, will be presenting some of his results for the
first time at a national conference.

Muncaster Castle has a long reputation as a haunted location,
and Dr Braithwaite=92s research currently involves exploring the
possibility that electro-magnetic fields are responsible for
causing some of the strange experiences reported by tourists and
staff-members alike. A Research Fellow in the Brain Sciences
department at Birmingham University, Dr Braithwaite is
collecting data with the M.A.D.S (magnetic anomaly detection
system), a custom-built computerised system recently installed
at the Castle. The system will be available for inspection
during the Conference.

Speakers include Lionel Fanthorpe, Professor Archie Roy and
Philip Mantle, amongst many others.

Ticket prices are =A330 for one day or =A345 for two days. This
includes free access to Muncaster Castle and Gardens and free
welcoming wine reception on Friday 26th March in the Castle.
This will give everyone the chance to meet the speakers and chat
to others also interested in the paranormal in the glorious
surroundings of the Great Hall.

The ticket price also includes buffet lunch during the day and
tea/coffee/juice and cakes at the end of the day.

Accommodation and evening meals are not included in the price
but there are many local places that can provide excellent and
affordable accommodation and food. Early booking is recommended.

For More Details and full programme please contact Muncaster
Castle on 01229 717614.


Programme

Saturday

10.00

Peter Frost-Pennington

Peter Frost-Pennington, the current owner of Muncaster Castle,
will give a welcoming speech and talk about the long and
fascinating history of the Castle.


10.30

Dr Jason Braithwaite

Dr Jason Braithwaite is a Research Fellow in the Behavioural
Brain Sciences Centre at the University of Birmingham. He has
been studying Muncaster=92s alleged hauntings for over a decade
and is the Director of Research there. He will speak about the
varied ghostly phenomena which has been reported in the Castle
and grounds.

11.30

Lionel Fanthorpe

Lionel Fanthorpe is well-known to TV viewers as the presenter of
Channel 4=92s Fortean TV, and has written many books about the
world of the unexplained. He is also President of the
Association for the Scientific Study of Anomalous Phenomena and
President of the British UFO Research Association. He and
Patricia have investigated unsolved mysteries of all kinds at
first hand for over thirty years -- and his talk today ranges
over a wide selection of them.

12.30  --- 2.30 Buffet Lunch

2.30

Professor Archie Roy

Professor Roy is an Emeritus Prof of Astronomy at Glasgow
University. He has investigated paranormal phenomena for over 40
years, and is well experienced in "hands on" case
investigations. He is the founder of the Scottish Society for
Psychical Research and a founding member of PRISM.

Professor Roy=92s talk today is titled "Overshadowing, Obsession
and Possession". He will speak about well authenticated cases
which relating to the title described. These cases will show -
 without question- that some form of paranormality is involved.

3.30

Tricia Robertson

Tricia Robertson is the Vice President of the Scottish Society
for Psychical Research and a founding member of PRISM. She has
investigated all aspects of the alleged paranormal for over 20
years. She and Professor Roy are joint authors of 3 well
received, papers published in the peer reviewed JSPR relating to
a statistical analysis of statements made by mediums in
conditions up to and including triple blind.

Tricia=92s talk today is titled "Striking a Happy Medium" (no
violence involved) relating to mediumship and paranormal events.
She will speak about various forms of evidence relating to the
survival of human personality after bodily death. The emphasis
is on balancing the science, the phenomena and the sceptical
viewpoint.

4.30 -- Coffee And Cakes


Sunday

10.30

Philip Mantle

Philip Mantle is a ufo researcher with over 20 years of
experience. he is an international author, lecturer and
broadcaster on the subject of UFO's. He is the co-author of two
books: Without Consent (with Carl Nagaitis) a study of alien
abduction accounts in the UK, and Beyond Roswell (with Michael
Hesemann) a full account of the UFO crash at Roswell in l947 and
the alien autopsy film.

His presentation today will be 'Alien Abductions in the UK'.
This presentation will look at such encounters from the UK only
and some of the theories put forward to try and explain them.

11.30

Dr. Jason Braithwaite

Speaking about the M.A.D.S (Magnetic Anomaly Detection System)
and its role in paranormal research. This system has been
custom-designed for the purpose and is currently being used in
research at Muncaster Castle and other locations in Cumbria.

12.30  -- 2.30 Buffet Lunch

2.30

Dr Hugh Pincott

Dr Hugh Pincott is a Chartered Chemist and market research
analyst who has undertaken much paranormal research in past
decades. A former Honorary Secretary of the Society for
Psychical Research, he is currently Chairman of ASSAP.

Dr Pincott believes that alleged paranormal events usually rely
on a high degree of value judgement in their interpretation,
often determined by preconceived ideas and beliefs. He assesses
the weight of reliable evidence for such happenings as ghosts,
poltergeists, time-slips, coincidences, anomalous photographs,
etc. He explains why voluntary research organisations have such
an important part to play in the study of these experiences.

3.30

Panel

The Conference will end with a Panel composed of Speakers,
open to questions from the audience.

4.30 -- Coffee And Cakes










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   Mar > Mar 14

             Re: UFO Magazine Folds After Editor's Death - Hale

From: Roy Hale <roy.nul>
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 04:53:16 -0000
Fwd Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 10:20:06 -0500
Subject: Re: UFO Magazine Folds After Editor's Death - Hale


>From: Joe McGonagle <joe.mcgonagle.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 16:12:34 -0000
>Subject: UFO Magazine Folds After Editor's Death

>Roy, I am surprised that you couldn't answer the question for
>your "friend of FSR", since you didn't query what I meant at the
>time. However, I will spell it out for you both.

>Magazines and newspapers print stories and opinions mainly, and
>not research. On the odd occasion when a magazine presents an
>article as research, the so-called research does not always
>stand up to scrutiny. I can think of at least two "major" cases
>from Yorkshire to which that statement applies, and that is
>without straining my memory whatsoever.

>They are, however, often good sources on which to base follow-up
>research.

Hi,

You forgot to mention in your response, above, regarding
research matters within magazines, that, "In my opinion so-
called research does not always stand up to scrutiny".

>To get back to the substance of my original post, I have been
>in touch with Paul Whitehead of FSR, and he tells me that the
>price of the CD-ROM does include UK postage, and also that a
>discount of =A33 is currently being offered when the order is
>accompanied by a magazine subscription, or ordered by an
>existing subscriber, making it even better value.

The question was not about prices, but about how you made FSR
sound like a joke, then within 3 months you ask everyone to
start placing subscriptions to it? I don't think I am the only
person on this list "In my opinion" who has also noted your
strange U-turn on FSR?

The crux of the matter is, you were asked a very straight
forward question:

"How did the change in your position come about on the relative
importance of these publications?"

To which you have answered with postage prices for FSR CD Roms?


Roy








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   Mar > Mar 14

                        No More 'Pelican' Discussion

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 10:57:11 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 10:57:11 -0500
Subject: No More 'Pelican' Discussion




Messrs Harney, Maccabee, et al,

The 'Pelican' topic has been endlessly discussed here - see
the Archive at:

http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/

Unless someone presents startling new evidence it is now
closed.


Errol Bruce-Knapp
Moderator - UFO UpDates - Toronto







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   Mar > Mar 14

                         Re: JPL's Mars UFO - Ledger

From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 11:41:16 -0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 12:23:06 -0500
Subject: Re: JPL's Mars UFO - Ledger


>From: Lan Fleming <lfleming5.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 12:09:11 -0600
>Subject: Re: JPL's Mars UFO

>>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 18:25:20 -0400
>>Subject: JPL's Mars UFO

>>Note the interesting use of "UFO" in this JPL URL re an anomally in
>>the Martian sky taken by Rover's cameras.

>That's not the only one. It looks like this Navcam image shows "UFOs"
>going every which ways:

>http://tinyurl.com/2va5q

>http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/2/n/067/2N132275207EFF1700-P1562R0M1
.HTML

>The image was taken at 1:54 local solar time, so I assume this is a
>photo of the night sky. I doubt that ALL the streaks in this image
>could be old NASA or Russian satellites. I'd hazard a guess that
>they're meteors.

Hi Lan,

I may be wrong but it's my uderstanding that The Soviets never
got a satellite to Mars. There is JPL's? Explorer that
disappeared back in the mid 90s. How about the Beagle II? Is
there any possibility that it just dropped ino the Mars' gravity
well and got captured due to a misfiring of it's propellants?


Don Ledger









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                 Re: We Need To Talk 'Intelligence' - Ledger

From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 11:56:22 -0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 12:27:02 -0500
Subject: Re: We Need To Talk 'Intelligence' - Ledger


>From: Todd Lemire <tlemire.nul>
>To:  ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 15:10:22 -0500
>Subject: Re: We Need To Talk 'Intelligence'

>>From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 10:58:03 EST
>>Subject: We Need To Talk 'Intelligence'

<snip>

>A favorite quote from Ray Fowler fits perfectly here.
>"Know that there is a Creator-Sustainer,

<snip>

Hi Todd,

Re Ray's: "Know that there is a Creator-Sustainer, who has made
Himself knowable to Creation in direct proportion to the
creatures ability to comprehend and respond." If we were to able
to send people back in time, say to the era of Christ, armed
with our present technology and and mechanical wonders and
display these current sciences, they would likely be confused
with the bible's version of God's power. Perhaps it's all just a
confusion of ignorance and knowledge.


Don Ledger









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   Mar > Mar 14

                    FBI Shows Little In The Show-Me State

From: Larry W. Bryant <overtci.nul>
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 11:52:49 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 12:30:57 -0500
Subject: FBI Shows Little In The Show-Me State


In his recent call for co-ordination on the following case,
St. Louis Ufologist Bruce Widaman has e-mailed some fellow
researchers, as follows:

"Ryan Wood [a researcher in Colorado] has been told that the
establishment of the Cape Girardeau, Mo., office of the F.B.I.
was because of espionage concerns. We think it may have been the
fact that a flying saucer crashed outside of there in 1941.

Can any of you kind and thoughtful people help me clear this up?

Thank you. Bruce Widaman."


Bruce also has forwarded to me the following:

-----

From: "Fred Romanski" <fred.romanski.nul>
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 15:32:19 -0500
To: <Bwidaman.nul

Subject: FBI Records

Mr. Bruce Widaman:

This is in response to your request of 11/12/2003 in which you
asked that a search be conducted for information concerning the
establishment of an FBI office in 1941in Cape Girardo, Missouri,
as a result of espionage concerns.

A search was conducted among the records of the Department of
Justice, specifically the "Subject Index to Various Central
Classified Files", 1918-1981 for the year 1941 under the term
espionage, but no information was found relative to your
request. We also searched the records of the Federal Bureau of
Investigation, specifically the correspondence of FBI director
J. Edgar Hoover for the year 1941, but again no information was
found relative to your request.


Fred Romanski
 Archivist, Civilian Records
Textual Archives Services Division
NWCTC 400757

11/20/2003

-----







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                        Re: JPL's Mars UFO - Stanford

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 12:38:02 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 17:27:31 -0500
Subject: Re: JPL's Mars UFO - Stanford


>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 11:41:16 -0400
>Subject: Re: JPL's Mars UFO

>>From: Lan Fleming <lfleming5.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 12:09:11 -0600
>>Subject: Re: JPL's Mars UFO

>>>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
>>>To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 18:25:20 -0400
>>>Subject: JPL's Mars UFO

>>>Note the interesting use of "UFO" in this JPL URL re an anomally in
>>>the Martian sky taken by Rover's cameras.

>>That's not the only one. It looks like this Navcam image shows "UFOs"
>>going every which ways:

>>http://tinyurl.com/2va5q

>http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/2/n/067/2N132275207EFF1700-P1562R0M1
.HTML

>>The image was taken at 1:54 local solar time, so I assume this is a
>>photo of the night sky. I doubt that ALL the streaks in this image
>>could be old NASA or Russian satellites. I'd hazard a guess that
>>they're meteors.

>I may be wrong but it's my uderstanding that The Soviets never
>got a satellite to Mars.

Hi Don,

Russian probes orbiting Mars are the following: Mars 2, Mars 3,
Mars 5, and Phobos 2. Their orbital situations are not such as
would account for the single, so called, "UFO" streak earlier
discussed on-list.


Ray Stanford

"You know my method. It is founded upon the observance of
trifles." -- Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery








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   Mar > Mar 14

                Re: We Need To Talk 'Intelligence' - Freeman

From: Kelly Freeman <Khfflsciufo.nul>
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 13:52:58 EST
Fwd Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 17:29:11 -0500
Subject: Re: We Need To Talk 'Intelligence' - Freeman


>From:  Todd Lemire <tlemire.nul>
>To:  ufoupdates.nul
>Date:Sat, 13 Mar 2004 15:10:22 -0500
>Subject:  Re: We Need To Talk 'Intelligence'

<snip>

>It would be wise to look at how much control over a group and
>environment a super intelligent being can achieve.  Would a
>super intelligent being 'need' to?  If we could achieve these
>states of higher awareness and intellect what are we doing now
>to arrest it?

<snip>

>Better yet, is there a super intelligence or are we in general
>arrested by some means (i.e. dietary).

Todd,

Regarding your questions concerning whether or not we, as human
beings, are doing anything to inhibit development of a super
intellect, perhaps it is a matter of environmental factors and
the way we sustain ourselves with what we eat on a daily basis.

Consider, for example, all the junk food that is consumed by the
vast majority of people on this planet and what the effect such
unhealthful dietary habits can cause to the human body, and in
particular, the human brain/mind.  Add to that environmental
factors such as nuclear, chemical and other forms of pollution
such as electromagnetic radiation emanating from just about
everywhere, who can say what all these influences are doing to
us?

Then, of course, there is the onslaught of television that seems
to want to dictate how we should live, courtesy of the "powers
that be", and well, what is a poor helpless, uninformed human
supposed to do?  The major concern is can all this be
intentional on part of who knows what/who, or just an accidental
con- sequence?

The super intelligent mind is latent within all of us, we just
need to learn how to tap into it and use it to our advantage.


Kelly Freeman









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              Re: NASA News Briefing On Unusual Solar Object -

From: John Hayes <webmaster.nul>
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 19:51:15 +0000
Fwd Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 17:33:13 -0500
Subject: Re: NASA News Briefing On Unusual Solar Object -


>From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>To: <- UFO UpDates Subscribers ->
>Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 10:19:36 -0500
>Subject: UFO UpDate: NASA News Briefing On Unusual Solar Object

>Donald Savage/Dwayne Brown
>Headquarters, Washington
>(Phone: 202/358-1547/1726)

>Jane Platt
>Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif.
>(Phone: 818/354-0880)

>March 12, 2004
>NOTE TO EDITORS : N04-040

>NASA Schedules News Briefing About Unusual Solar Object

>The discovery of a mysterious object in our solar system is the
>topic of a listen-and-log-on news briefing on Monday, March 15,
>at 1 p.m. EST.

Source: The Australian

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,8968352%255E29=
 098,00.html

15 Mar 04

It's another world ... but is it our 10th planet?
By Louise Milligan and agencies


SCIENTISTS have found a new world orbiting the solar system --
more than 3 billion kilometres further away from the Sun than
Pluto and 40 years away from Earth in a space shuttle.

NASA is expected to announce today the discovery of the space
object, which some experts believe could be a new planet. It is
provisionally known as Sedna, after the Inuit goddess of the
sea.

The discovery of Sedna -- 10 billion kilometres from Earth -- is a
testament to the new generation of high-powered telescopes.

Measurements suggest Sedna's diameter is almost 2000km -- the
biggest find in the solar system since Pluto was discovered 74
years ago. It is believed to be made of ice and rock, and is
slightly smaller than Pluto.

The find will reignite the debate over what constitutes a
planet. Some scientists claim even Pluto is too small to count
as one.

According to astronomer Michael Brown of the California
Institute of Technology, who discovered Sedna, there could be
many other new worlds orbiting the Sun and waiting to be
discovered.

"Sedna is very big, and much further out than previous
discoveries," he said. "I'm pretty sure there are other large
bodies up there too."

But physicist and cosmologist Paul Davies, of Sydney's Macquarie
University, said it was folly to describe Sedna as a planet.
"It's fun, it's exciting, but let's keep it in proportion,"
Professor Davies said yesterday.

He said scientists had known for "a decade or so the solar
system does not come to an abrupt halt" and there were a number
of "planetessimals" or little planets, like Sedna.

[END]


John Hayes

webmaster.nul

UFOINFO:- http://www.ufoinfo.com

Official Archives for UFO Roundup, AUFORN Australian
UFO Reports and Experiences, UFO + PSI Magazine
plus archives of Humanoid Sighting Reports (Albert
Rosales), Filer's Files, Oz Files, UFO News UK.









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              Re: FBI Shows Little In The Show-Me State - Young

From: Kenny Young <ufo.nul>
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 15:12:51 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 17:55:08 -0500
Subject: Re: FBI Shows Little In The Show-Me State - Young


>From: Larry W. Bryant <overtci.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 11:52:49 -0500 (EST)
>Subject: FBI Shows Little In The Show-Me State

>In his recent call for co-ordination on the following case,
>St. Louis Ufologist Bruce Widaman has e-mailed some fellow
>researchers, as follows:

>"Ryan Wood [a researcher in Colorado] has been told that the
>establishment of the Cape Girardeau, Mo., office of the F.B.I.
>was because of espionage concerns. We think it may have been the
>fact that a flying saucer crashed outside of there in 1941.

>Can any of you kind and thoughtful people help me clear this up?

This sounds similar to the unusual report that a nearby post
office was filled with intelligence agents also during this same
time frame. I have long thought that if anything strange really
took place in 1941 it likely happened to the south, nearer to
Charleston, MO,  about 30-miles from The Cape.

In January of 1941 sharecropper Lonnie Yowl found a 'Hitler
Bomb' on the Mississippi County farm he worked on. Yowel alerted
his boss, Carl Stopher, and they called the police. What was
thought to be a 'foreign weapon' was later explained to be a
weather balloon. In 1999, the late Mrs. Edna Stopher, wife of
Carl Stopher, recalled a 'plane crash' on the Stopher property
found by 'a black man'. She did not recall any weather balloon
situation but said it was a 'plane crash of some sort' and that
all kinds of people came out,' and without any prompting, she
also said: "it seemed like there was something secret about it."

And about 4-miles away from the 'Hitler Bomb' incident, in April
of 1942, another sharecropper - Mr. Albert Turner - was taken
aboard a submarine and given a tour by its occupants: a negro
leader and five little brown men. Afterward, Turner was taken to
St. Louis and held many days for questioning. He was released
and never again spoke of this incident, which was reported to be
a 'hoax' in local papers.

I talked with a Charleston, MO local who said that his father,
Mr. Raymond Marshall, a Gunnery Sgt. before WWII, was appointed
by the govt. to fill a "highly secretive undercover position"
working at the local Charleston, Missouri Post Office, with
three other people. Two others filling these positions were ex-
marines. Buddy Marshall, son of Raymond, said that the
postmaster, assistant postmaster and carrier were all
intelligence agents.


Kenny Young








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   Mar > Mar 14

                        Re: JPL's Mars UFO - Fleming

From: Lan Fleming <lfleming5.nul>
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 14:57:33 -0600
Fwd Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 18:03:13 -0500
Subject: Re: JPL's Mars UFO - Fleming


>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 11:41:16 -0400
>Subject: Re: JPL's Mars UFO - Ledger

>>From: Lan Fleming <lfleming5.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 12:09:11 -0600
>>Subject: Re: JPL's Mars UFO

>>>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 18:25:20 -0400
>>>Subject: JPL's Mars UFO

>>>Note the interesting use of "UFO" in this JPL URL re an anomally in
>>>the Martian sky taken by Rover's cameras.

>>That's not the only one. It looks like this Navcam image shows "UFOs"
>>going every which ways:

>>http://tinyurl.com/2va5q

<snip>

>I may be wrong but it's my uderstanding that The Soviets never
>got a satellite to Mars. There is JPL's? Explorer that
>disappeared back in the mid 90s. How about the Beagle II? Is
>there any possibility that it just dropped ino the Mars' gravity
>well and got captured due to a misfiring of it's propellants?

I just read a post from Paul Anderson on the Cydonia List. He
said that the image I referred to was a 5-minute time exposure
and that JPL thinks the streaks were created by cosmic rays
hitting the camera's CCD array.

That seems the most reasonable explanation to me. There are too
many streaks for all of them to be satellites.

With a long exposure, occasionally a cosmic ray will hit at a
low grazing angle, creating a streak rather than a dot -- and
there are a lot of dots on that image that probably are cosmic
ray hits, too.








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   Mar > Mar 14

                Re: UFO Magazine Folds After Editor's Death -

From: From: Joe McGonagle <joe.mcgonagle.nul>
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 22:43:04 -0000
Fwd Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 18:06:43 -0500
Subject: Re: UFO Magazine Folds After Editor's Death -


>From: Roy Hale <roy.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 04:53:16 -0000
>Subject: Re: UFO Magazine Folds After Editor's Death

>From: Joe McGonagle <joe.mcgonagle.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 16:12:34 -0000
>Subject: UFO Magazine Folds After Editor's Death

<snip>

>You forgot to mention in your response, above, regarding
>research matters within magazines, that, "In my opinion so-
>called research does not always stand up to scrutiny".

I did not forget, please don't put words in my mouth. Is it your
opinion that all material presented as research in printed
format always stands up to closer scrutiny? Well you are welcome
to your opinions, I'll stick to the facts - on the odd occasion
when a magazine presents an article as research, the so-called
research does not always stand up to scrutiny.

Fact - not opinion.

<snip>

>The question was not about prices, but about how you made FSR
>sound like a joke, then within 3 months you ask everyone to
>start placing subscriptions to it? I don't think I am the only
>person on this list "In my opinion" who has also noted your
>strange U-turn on FSR?

It was not FSR that was made to sound like a joke in my post at:

http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2003/nov/m13-005.shtml

which is the post you are referring to. It is highly likely that
a few people on this List are experiencing the same comprehenion
difficulty which you seem to be, or that do comprehend it, but
don't want to acknowledge what it means. Once again, from my
reply to Stuart:

"My comments were not critical of the publication, but of
_how_people_interpret_the_contents_, ie, accepting everything
that appears on TV or in print as immutable fact, without
questioning the depth of research, the motivation of the author,
and sometimes even the rationality of the article amongst other
things."

Now I can't think of any clearer way to express that, if you
still don't understand I am sorry, I can't help you.

>The crux of the matter is, you were asked a very straight
>forward question:

>"How did the change in your position come about on the relative
>importance of these publications?"

The direct answer is that no change in my position, with regard
to FSR, occured between the posts which are under discussion. If
you still don't understand I am sorry, I can't help you.

>To which you have answered with postage prices for FSR CD Roms?

No, Roy. That was only a part of my response - re-read the post
at:

http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2004/mar/m13-008.shtml

You will find that I did attempt to answer the question, but
perhaps not with the same clarity and simplicity that I have
employed in this post.


Regards,

Joe








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   Mar > Mar 14

                Re: We Need To Talk 'Intelligence'- Friedman

From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul>
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 19:13:07 -0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 18:40:12 -0500
Subject: Re: We Need To Talk 'Intelligence'- Friedman


>From: Kelly Freeman <Khfflsciufo.nul>
>Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 13:52:58 EST
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Subject: Re: We Need To Talk 'Intelligence'

>>From:  Todd Lemire <tlemire.nul>
>>To:  ufoupdates.nul
>>Date:Sat, 13 Mar 2004 15:10:22 -0500
>>Subject:  Re: We Need To Talk 'Intelligence'

><snip>

>>It would be wise to look at how much control over a group and
>>environment a super intelligent being can achieve. Would a
>>super intelligent being 'need' to? If we could achieve these
>>states of higher awareness and intellect what are we doing now
>>to arrest it?

><snip>

>>Better yet, is there a super intelligence or are we in general
>>arrested by some means (i.e. dietary).

>Regarding your questions concerning whether or not we, as human
>beings, are doing anything to inhibit development of a super
>intellect, perhaps it is a matter of environmental factors and
>the way we sustain ourselves with what we eat on a daily basis.

>Consider, for example, all the junk food that is consumed by the
>vast majority of people on this planet and what the effect such
>unhealthful dietary habits can cause to the human body, and in
>particular, the human brain/mind.  Add to that environmental
>factors such as nuclear, chemical and other forms of pollution
>such as electromagnetic radiation emanating from just about
>everywhere, who can say what all these influences are doing to
>us?

>Then, of course, there is the onslaught of television that seems
>to want to dictate how we should live, courtesy of the "powers
>that be", and well, what is a poor helpless, uninformed human
>supposed to do?  The major concern is can all this be
>intentional on part of who knows what/who, or just an accidental
>con- sequence?

>The super intelligent mind is latent within all of us, we just
>need to learn how to tap into it and use it to our advantage.


Just how many of the world's 6 Billion people can afford junk
food no less any food? How many are in a position to produce
much pollution? Think of Africa, India, Bangladesh, most of the
Moslem world. It is the minority in the West which can afford
junk food, obesity, gas guzzling SUVs. Let us not judge others
by ourselves.


Stan Friedman








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   Mar > Mar 14

                    What Is The Skies Around Decker Lake?

From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO <hbccufo.nul>
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 16:04:51 -0800
Fwd Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 19:19:47 -0500
Subject: What Is The Skies Around Decker Lake?


What Is The Skies Around Decker Lake, Burns Lake and Grassy
Plains?

I have added a little more as to what is being seen around the
Burns Lake, Grassy Plains and Decker Lake area.

I have received a number of calls and emails from
residents from the communities that I mentioned above. After I
contacted the RCMP, Forestry, the small airport at Burns lake
and any helicopter businesses there ended up being no
information, or aircraft flying or working in these areas on
these dates, or for that matter nothing has been flying all
throughout the area at anytime in the later evenings. Some of
the objects that people are witnessing are certainly dropping
down behind Pauline Mountain. Also many objects have been
witnessed by loggers and other forestry workers. Local residents
are now wondering what the heck has been going on as a lot of
strange lights making some very unusual maneuvers have been
witnessed since last August of 2003. I have plans to visit many
of these folks this week to gather more information. Also I will
be speaking to a good sized audience about UFOs which have been
seen throughout the pacific northwest. From what I have been
told, folks are traveling from Prince George and other points
east, also coming in from the west. So this should be an
interesting evening coming up soonly. In the past there has also
been a number of cattle mutes which have taken place in all of
these areas. So I have put the word out to have folks contact me
if anything like a mute does take place due to so much action
happening in the skies.


Decker Lake & Area

Date:  March 12, 2004
Time:  approx: 10:30 p.m.

A witness called from Decker Lake to report seeing a very
unusual object in the night sky. The witness said the sighting
lasted for approximately 10 minutes before it moved away and
into the distance. It then appeared as a very faint light until
it just disappeared. The object seen was extremely bright white
with a ring of red lights around the middle. It was reported
that there were a good number of red lights which could be
easily seen with the naked eye. It was a clear night and the
star were shinning brightly, but the person said this was
certainly no star.

HBCC UFO called the local airport which is very small to enquire
to see if anyone knew if a helicopter or any aircraft was fling
in that area on March 12, 2004 at approximately 10:30 p.m. and
they said they were not aware of anything flying that evening. I
also checked to see if anything was fling on February 27, 2004
and March 7, 2004 and again no reports of aircraft in the area.
Both of these dates I mentioned had sightings of unusual craft
in the area. I will also be taking a drive to visit all of the
witnesses who filed reports to get a better idea where exactly
the objects have been seen.

Also while I chatted with the witness I was told of a number of
incidents which have taken place in and around Decker Lake and
Burns Lake British Columbia. Objects being witnessed by a large
number of folks. Some watching an object skimming over the water
on Francois Lake and the object was of a large size, silent and
glowing. Other strange white/objects making some very fantastic
maneuvers in the sky's above and always dropping down behind one
of the mountains in the Grassy Plains area. This is rather
interesting because I know there has been a number of cattle
mutes that have taken place across Francois Lake and around
Grassy Plains. Also strange creatures are being reported from
our native peoples.

I will also add I receive information from a very credible
source who works on Francois Lake everyday, along with others
who have reported that the large Canadian Search and Rescue
Buffalo had been flying late at night for no known reason over
top of Francois Lake at very unusual hours. Some of these
witness made enquires to why the aircraft was there, thinking
the flight crew may have been on a training mission but there
was no information to come forward.

I am starting to wonder if there isn't something happening all
throughout this area and I am certainly going to be spending
some time out there talking with residents around the area.

Below is a little on what our Search and Rescue Buffalo is.

Buffalo - the Tactical Twin from DHC

DHC's  Buffalo* was designed to meet a US Army requirement for a
fixed-wing tactical transport with a cargo capacity to match
Boeing-Vertol CH-46 Chinook helicopters. The type entered
Canadian service in 1967 as a complement to the larger CC-130
Hercules. The training of paratroopers was among the CC-115's
early tasks but in 1974 the CF Buffalo fleet was modified for
the search-and-rescue role.

Rescue equipment, improved navigation aids, and crew rest
stations were all that was required to convert the Buffalo from
transport** to SAR.  Perhaps a little over- powered for their
new role,  the key virtue of the CC-115s was their availability.
 The Buffalo had little opportunity to make use of their
phenomenal short take-off and landing abilities as SAR aircraft.
However, the rear cargo ramp was ideal for rescue equipment
dropping, and the paratrooper doors suited SAR-tech jumps just
as well.  But, the Buffs are aging and only 6 of 15 remain.


Brian Vike
Director HBCC UFO Research

Home - Phone 250 845 2189
email: hbccufo.nul
Website: http://www.hbccufo.com








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   Mar > Mar 15

                      UFO Spies Vanish Into Black Hole

From: Terry W. Colvin <fortean1.nul>
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 17:51:39 -0700
Fwd Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 09:07:55 -0500
Subject: UFO Spies Vanish Into Black Hole


Source: The Observer - London

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,6903,1168923,00.html >

March 14, 2004

UFO Spies Vanish Into Black Hole

Now you see them...

Mark Townsend
Sunday March 14, 2004
The Observer

At its peak, tens of thousands would await the latest lurid
tales of alien autopsies and flying saucers spying on sleepy
market towns.

Yet the publication that took UFOs from the sci-fi hinterland to
the mainstream has now enjoyed its final print run. After almost
25 years, UFO Magazine was quietly shut down last week.
Suggestions of paranormal interference or alien involvement have
been ruled out. The reason is more down-to-earth: not enough
people care these days.

Sources said its closure had been inevitable since the death of
editor and world UFO expert Graham Birdsall last September.
Birdsall along with younger brother Mark founded the Leeds-based
magazine in 1981. Soon it became the world's top UFO
publication, selling up to 35,000 copies at its height.
Subscribers still talk about the puncture marks on sheep
carcasses which offered proof that extra-terrestrial visitors
had arrived to suck the juices of livestock.

Andy Roberts, author of UFO books and former magazine
contributor, said the public's fascination with mysterious
flying objects had faded. 'Ufology is really a thing of the last
century. The end of the X-Files series didn't help, and there
has been a decline since the televised alien autopsy of the mid-
1990s. Basically it was a hobby that broke into the
mainstream... Ultimately there was only a hardcore following,'
said Roberts.

The sighting of a strange bright object above his Leeds home in
1967 fuelled Birdsall's interest in UFOs. It was an obsession
that would make him a household name among Ufologists and an
obliga tory presence on television whenever a new sighting was
reported.

Birdsall's death followed the loss of another icon of the UFO
community last summer. Ex-diplomat Gordon Creighton, 92, was
editor of Flying Saucer Review, the longest-running UFO
magazine. Founded in 1955, it is still published.

Sightings are still reported. Last week a group of children in
Littleborough, Lancashire, claimed they saw a spacecraft moving
slowly above rooftops for several minutes before it shot off at
high speed.

--
"Only a zit on the wart on the heinie of progress." Copyright
1992, Frank Rice


Terry W. Colvin,
Sierra Vista,
Arizona (USA)
fortean1.nul







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   Mar > Mar 15

                 Re: We Need To Talk 'Intelligence' - Ledger

From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 22:59:35 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 09:10:54 -0500
Subject: Re: We Need To Talk 'Intelligence' - Ledger


>>From: Kelly Freeman <Khfflsciufo.nul>
>>Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 13:52:58 EST
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Subject: Re: We Need To Talk 'Intelligence'

>>>From:  Todd Lemire <tlemire.nul>
>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>Date:Sat, 13 Mar 2004 15:10:22
>>>-0500 Subject:  Re: We Need To Talk 'Intelligence'

>>>It would be wise to look at how much control over a group and
>>>environment a super intelligent being can achieve. Would a super
>>>intelligent being 'need' to? If we could achieve these states of
>>>higher awareness and intellect what are we doing now to arrest
>>>it?

>>>Better yet, is there a super intelligence or are we in general
>>>arrested by some means (i.e. dietary).

<snip>

>>Consider, for example, all the junk food that is consumed by the
>>vast majority of people on this planet and what the effect such
>>unhealthful dietary habits can cause to the human body, and in
>>particular, the human brain/mind.  Add to that environmental
>>factors such as nuclear, chemical and other forms of pollution such
>>as electromagnetic radiation emanating from just about everywhere,
>>who can say what all these influences are doing to us?

<snip>

>>The super intelligent mind is latent within all of us, we just need
>>to learn how to tap into it and use it to our advantage.

>Just how many of the world's 6 Billion people can afford junk food no
>less any food? How many are in a position to produce much pollution?
>Think of Africa, India, Bangladesh, most of the Moslem world. It is
>the minority in the West which can afford junk food, obesity, gas
>guzzling SUVs. Let us not judge others by ourselves.

When it comes right down to it, intelligence isn't measured by
how we live but how we use it to propagate the species. Maybe a
sensibly non-polluted world with ample food for all is an
admirable by-product of our use of our intelligence but I'm
wondering if we aren't fooling ourselves by thinking that a race
much further up the intelligence scale [meaning accumulated
knowledge from being around longer] would be any less messy or
better fed than we are. I'm assuming that they are, mind you,
since we are getting better at it, but we are fighting the
numbers game. It takes money, education but most of all, it
takes time.


Don Ledger








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   Mar > Mar 15

                 Re: We Need To Talk 'Intelligence' - Boone

From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 22:39:07 EST
Fwd Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 09:13:08 -0500
Subject: Re: We Need To Talk 'Intelligence' - Boone


>From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 19:13:07 -0400
>Subject: Re: We Need To Talk 'Intelligence'

>>From: Kelly Freeman <Khfflsciufo.nul>
>>Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 13:52:58 EST
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Subject: Re: We Need To Talk 'Intelligence'

>>>From:  Todd Lemire <tlemire.nul>
>>>To:  ufoupdates.nul
>>>Date:Sat, 13 Mar 2004 15:10:22 -0500
>>>Subject:  Re: We Need To Talk 'Intelligence'

>><snip>

>>>It would be wise to look at how much control over a group and
>>>environment a super intelligent being can achieve. Would a
>>>super intelligent being 'need' to? If we could achieve these
>>>states of higher awareness and intellect what are we doing now
>>>to arrest it?

>><snip>

>>>Better yet, is there a super intelligence or are we in general
>>>arrested by some means (i.e. dietary).

>>Regarding your questions concerning whether or not we, as human
>>beings, are doing anything to inhibit development of a super
>>intellect, perhaps it is a matter of environmental factors and
>>the way we sustain ourselves with what we eat on a daily basis.

>>Consider, for example, all the junk food that is consumed by the
>>vast majority of people on this planet and what the effect such
>>unhealthful dietary habits can cause to the human body, and in
>>particular, the human brain/mind.  Add to that environmental
>>factors such as nuclear, chemical and other forms of pollution
>>such as electromagnetic radiation emanating from=D8=F8 just about
>>everywhere, who can say what all these influences are doing to
>>us?

>>Then, of course, there is the onslaught of television that seems
>>to want to dictate how we should live, courtesy of the "powers
>>that be", and well, what is a poor helpless, uninformed human
>>supposed to do?  The major concern is can all this be
>>intentional on part of who knows what/who, or just an accidental
>>con- sequence?

>>The super intelligent mind is latent within all of us, we just
>>need to learn how to tap into it and use it to our advantage.

>Just how many of the world's 6 Billion people can afford junk
>food no less any food? How many are in a position to produce
>much pollution? Think of Africa, India, Bangladesh, most of the
>Moslem world. It is the minority in the West which can afford
>junk food, obesity, gas guzzling SUVs. Let us not judge others
>by ourselves.


Of course not to judge others by ourselves. We could but that
would be limited. Same as with our viewpoints on
extraterrestrials.

Yet Kelly brought up some great points I forgot to consider
especially about pollution and electromagnetic radiation.

Pollution affects us all worldwide. Not just us westerners.

Also, yes there are 6 billion+ yet what's the percentage that
gets a nutritional diet or how many actually get to eat one meal
a day if that? How many have access to educational materials and
those 'Einsteins' we may have out there, how many actually get
the opportunity to show their stuff?  We've all read of, met
even of intelligent people who were shunned or even killed for
fear of their abilities. Just a quick glance at 20th Century
history will bring up enough data on that to make a ton of
movies.

Here in the west we've got more doctors and lawyers than I think
have existed since the dawn of time and we're not pumping out
Einsteins or Teslas at an alarming rate. I'll have to check the
latest figures on student test scores here in the U.S.

Illiteracy even on a college level too. I recall many, many
hours of having to retrain people who'd just gotten out of
college and could barely write or read. This astounded us! Here
these young people had student debts in the tens of thousands
and could barely function in the office. Yet that's just the
U.S. I've observed first hand in my industries.  You folks in
the labs must see another viewpoint.

I'm betting out there if given the right balance of nutrition and
tutorship we could break out the geniuses we should be producing.


Best,

Greg







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   Mar > Mar 15

                 Re: We Need To Talk 'Intelligence' - Boone

From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 22:47:50 EST
Fwd Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 09:14:23 -0500
Subject: Re: We Need To Talk 'Intelligence' - Boone


>From: Kelly Freeman <Khfflsciufo.nul>
>Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 13:52:58 EST
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Subject: Re: We Need To Talk 'Intelligence'

>>From:  Todd Lemire <tlemire.nul>
>>To:  ufoupdates.nul
>>Date:Sat, 13 Mar 2004 15:10:22 -0500
>>Subject:  Re: We Need To Talk 'Intelligence'

><snip>

>>It would be wise to look at how much control over a group and
>>environment a super intelligent being can achieve.  Would a
>>super intelligent being 'need' to?  If we could achieve these
>>states of higher awareness and intellect what are we doing now
>>to arrest it?

><snip>

>>Better yet, is there a super intelligence or are we in general
>>arrested by some means (i.e. dietary).

>Regarding your questions concerning whether or not we, as human
>beings, are doing anything to inhibit development of a super
>intellect, perhaps it is a matter of environmental factors and
>the way we sustain ourselves with what we eat on a daily basis.

>Consider, for example, all the junk food that is consumed by the
>vast majority of people on this planet and what the effect such
>unhealthful dietary habits can cause to the human body, and in
>particular, the human brain/mind.  Add to that environmental
>factors such as nuclear, chemical and other forms of pollution
>such as electromagnetic radiation emanating from just about
>everywhere, who can say what all these influences are doing to
>us?

>Then, of course, there is the onslaught of television that seems
>to want to dictate how we should live, courtesy of the "powers
>that be", and well, what is a po=D8=F8 or helpless, uninformed human
>supposed to do?  The major concern is can all this be
>intentional on part of who knows what/who, or just an accidental
>con- sequence?

>The super intelligent mind is latent within all of us, we just
>need to learn how to tap into it and use it to our advantage.


Thanks Kelly,

I'd forgotten about pollution as a possible factor. That affects
us all no matter where we live on this globe. The various
pollutants get into everything.

I recall several years ago getting a weather map from 1947
during the 'Roswell' situation. I looked at the wind patterns to
see if some weather balloons from that area had made it to NY
State as one of our local farmers had reported in the newspaper
during that time. Sure enough the wind patterns travelled that
direction. Then I realized that if balloons could do it, what
about fallout.

Sure enough there was alot of data on that. It was dairy country
in those days in NY State. So you know where the pollutants, if
any, ended up.

This is something requiring more study. I went through a detox
program a few years ago and one of the results is to get
radiation out of the body. Didn't know it could build up like
that. For me it wasn't that bad but others on the program were
in agony sometimes. That was just the radiation.

Considering the data on lead poisoning and the effects of lead
on brain functions, that too could be a factor. Will research
that.


Best,

Greg








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   Mar > Mar 16

               Re: UFO Spies Vanish Into Black Hole - Lehmberg

From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg.nul>
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 09:05:16 -0600
Fwd Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 08:12:36 -0500
Subject: Re: UFO Spies Vanish Into Black Hole - Lehmberg


>From: Terry W. Colvin <fortean1.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>,
>Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 17:51:39 -0700
>Subject: UFO Spies Vanish Into Black Hole

>Source: The Observer - London

>http://observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,6903,1168923,00.html

>March 14, 2004

>UFO Spies Vanish Into Black Hole

>Now you see them...

>Mark Townsend
>Sunday March 14, 2004
>The Observer

>At its peak, tens of thousands would await the latest lurid
>tales of alien autopsies and flying saucers spying on sleepy
>market towns.

>Yet the publication that took UFOs from the sci-fi hinterland to
>the mainstream has now enjoyed its final print run. After almost
>25 years, UFO Magazine was quietly shut down last week.
>Suggestions of paranormal interference or alien involvement have
>been ruled out. The reason is more down-to-earth: not enough
>people care these days.

>Sources said its closure had been inevitable since the death of
>editor and world UFO expert Graham Birdsall last September.
>Birdsall along with younger brother Mark founded the Leeds-based
>magazine in 1981. Soon it became the world's top UFO
>publication, selling up to 35,000 copies at its height.
>Subscribers still talk about the puncture marks on sheep
>carcasses which offered proof that extra-terrestrial visitors
>had arrived to suck the juices of livestock.

>Andy Roberts, author of UFO books and former magazine
>contributor, said the public's fascination with mysterious
>flying objects had faded. 'Ufology is really a thing of the last
>century. The end of the X-Files series didn't help, and there
>has been a decline since the televised alien autopsy of the mid-
>1990s. Basically it was a hobby that broke into the
>mainstream... Ultimately there was only a hardcore following,'
>said Roberts.

>The sighting of a strange bright object above his Leeds home in
>1967 fuelled Birdsall's interest in UFOs. It was an obsession
>that would make him a household name among Ufologists and an
>obliga tory presence on television whenever a new sighting was
>reported.

>Birdsall's death followed the loss of another icon of the UFO
>community last summer. Ex-diplomat Gordon Creighton, 92, was
>editor of Flying Saucer Review, the longest-running UFO
>magazine. Founded in 1955, it is still published.

>Sightings are still reported. Last week a group of children in
>Littleborough, Lancashire, claimed they saw a spacecraft moving
>slowly above rooftops for several minutes before it shot off at
>high speed.


Andy Roberts?

Forgetting for a moment that the pronouncements of an admitted
Yorkshire confabulator (...and unctuously arrogant anti-
ufological martinet!) are beneath the contempt of even the
confused fence sitter, the premise of this article is laughable.
 The demise of a general interest in Ufology is certainly
exaggerated if not wrong on all levels.

It's all over cable television, million dollar ad campaigns, and
the internet. There are more sightings and conferences
discussing these sightings that ever before. They are the most
popular subject of late night radio programs serving millions of
people all over the world, and there is more time shifting of
those programs into the daylight hours than ever before.
 Finally, there are more campaigns by ardent and petulantly
denying cultural charlatans (and intellectual cowards!) like,
well... Andy Roberts... than ever before, too, furiously trying
to make to make those *scary* and inconvenient UFOs go away!
 This is more than enough evidence that Ufology is far from its
last gasp.

No... Ufology is not going away... it's just taking a breath,
and a shallow one at that. The Friedman/Mcgaha debate is a
_recent_ example of Ufological validity, verity, and vitality!
The pelicanists have _nothing_, ladies and gentlemen! The
demonstration of that was _effortless_! Indeed, the only thing
sucking like a black hole is the garden variety pelicanist,
himself. Human interest in the Ufological predates the biblical,
Mr. Colvin. It will _handily_ survive the duplicitously canted
pronouncements of an "Andy Roberts."

"_Now_ you see them...".


Lehmberg.nul

EXPLORE "AlienViewGroup" at its HostPros URL.
http://www.alienview.net


JOHN FORD RESTORATION FUND -- John will be released eventually.
He'll need a tax free cash stake to get on his feet. Let's put
one together for him; the bigger it is -- the more attention
he gets. It could have been you. E-mail for detail.
$450.00 pledged -- $200.00 collected!

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite.
What others see from afar, I leave far behind me."
- Giordano Bruno, scourged by the scabrously specious scurrilous.








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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   Mar > Mar 16

                Re: UFO Spies Vanish Into Black Hole - Clark

From: Jerome Clark <jkclark.nul>
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 09:30:52 -0600
Fwd Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 08:13:53 -0500
Subject: Re: UFO Spies Vanish Into Black Hole - Clark


>From: Terry W. Colvin <fortean1.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>,
>Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 17:51:39 -0700
>Subject: UFO Spies Vanish Into Black Hole

>Source: The Observer - London

>http://observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,6903,1168923,00.html >

>March 14, 2004

>UFO Spies Vanish Into Black Hole

>Now you see them...

>Mark Townsend
>Sunday March 14, 2004
>The Observer


>Andy Roberts, author of UFO books and former magazine
>contributor, said the public's fascination with mysterious
>flying objects had faded. 'Ufology is really a thing of the last
>century. The end of the X-Files series didn't help, and there
>has been a decline since the televised alien autopsy of the mid-
>1990s. Basically it was a hobby that broke into the
>mainstream... Ultimately there was only a hardcore following,'
>said Roberts.

This is, of course, sheer twaddle. If history teaches us
anything, it's that (1) you can always get a credulous
journalist to repeat nonsense and (2), more important, there is
no way to extrapolate from ufology's current state what its
future will be.

Interest in UFOs was first pronounced dead in August 1947.
Flying saucers were already being referred to in the past tense
by the second or third week of the month before.

As I learned while researching my encyclopedia, UFOs and
ufologists have been pronounced dead practically since the
beginning of either. I don't except myself from this
foolishness. In the October 1983 issue of Fate, in a piece
titled "Requiem for the UFO Age," I declared that ufology had
gone the way of the dodo. This was, remember, less than four
years before it entered yet another boom period. Nonetheless, a
New York Times reporter phoned me within days of the piece's
appearance for my "authoritative" word on the death of ufology.
He listened as avidly and credulously as the Observer reporter
above.

I was to learn only later how often over history UFOs have been
pronounced the product of last month, last year, last decade, or
- now, as witness the pearls of wisdom in the above quote --
 last century.

Where the question of ufology's vitality or lack of same is
concerned, many variables are in play. For one example, the
1958-1964 period, when many deemed ufology a dying enterprise,
ended with major waves which brought new vitality. Beyond that,
public attention is fickle, and in recent years there has been
much to distract it, not the least of it a world that seems to
grow more dangerous and violent by the day. Moreover, in recent
years there have been no dramatic breakthroughs or controversies
to excite outsiders or to draw new people into the field. Still,
the phenomenon itself is not dead, and as long as it remains,
the potential for new developments - or at least interesting new
sightings - remains.

Dead? Probably not. Sleeping? More likely. And in any event, the
state of ufology's health at any given moment has nothing to do
with the questions our subject, whether robust or anemic in
popular perception, confronts. Ufology or no, those remain.


Jerry Clark








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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   Mar > Mar 16

                     Re: We Need To Talk 'Intelligence'

From: Ray Dickenson <editor.nul>
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 16:22:21 +0000
Fwd Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 08:15:23 -0500
Subject: Re: We Need To Talk 'Intelligence'


>From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 10:58:03 EST
>Subject: We Need To Talk 'Intelligence'

>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
>From: Todd Lemire <tlemire.nul>
>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
>From: Kelly Freeman <Khfflsciufo.nul>
>From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul>
>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
>From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
>From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>

Don't know about any more but I counted nine items to save, the
most sensible consecutive mails one hoped to read.

Any chance of you people getting together to start a political
party, or a new country, or something?

Cheers

Ray D

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Perceptions" http://www.perceptions.couk.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~








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   Mar > Mar 16

                                  Out There

From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO <hbccufo.nul>
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 12:34:24 -0800
Fwd Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 08:25:42 -0500
Subject: Out There


Source: The Vancouver Courier - British Columbia

http://www.vancourier.com/033104/news/033104nn1.html

Monday, March 15, 2004


Out There

By Naoibh O'Connor
Staff Writer

Just past 6 p.m. on Aug. 11, last year, Diana Luca and her
mother, who was visiting from Romania, were chatting at the
kitchen table in Luca's New Westminster home. It was a beautiful
windless evening, the clear blue sky visible from their seats in
front of a large south-facing window.

Out of the corner of her eye, Luca spotted a black object behind
the trees in the back alley. "Look, it's a balloon," she told
her mother. But when the two stepped onto the patio, they saw
what they now insist is a UFO. "It still freaks me out. I could
see it flying behind the trees and on top of the shorter trees,"
says the 34-year-old, recalling the incident from the living
room of her new house.

Luca claims the object-flat and shaped like a Frisbee-flipped to
its underside, which was as red and shiny as a Coke can.

Scared, she called her common-law husband, Mark Murphy, who was
inside. By the time he reached the porch, the object looked
cigar shaped and was an estimated three kilometres away. Murphy
rushed inside to retrieve a camcorder purchased two days
earlier, documenting the rest of the sighting on tape, which he
keeps under lock and key. The 35-year-old property manager has
since copied the tape onto a DVD that he plays over and over.

From the right side of the screen, a small, shiny object moves
towards the centre, then heads rapidly towards the camera. As it
gets closer, it becomes a round, black form that vibrates
slightly, at one point turning on its side, giving it the cigar
shape.

Murphy loses sight of it several times and is forced to refocus
to recapture the object on film. It zips across the screen so
quickly on another occasion that it can only be seen later, when
Murphy watches the tape in slow motion.

"It's something I'll never forget for the rest of my life-I was
in shock. The clarity of this is just incredible," he says. "I
heard about UFOs but had written [them] off in my head. I'm a
skeptical kind of person who has to touch it to believe it, but
now I'm not too certain."

It sounds farfetched, but he's got a lot of company locally.

According to the 2003 Canadian UFO Survey, reported by Chris
Rutkowski of UFOlogy Research of Manitoba, more than 673
sightings of UFOs-defined literally as flying objects that can't
be identified-were documented across the country last year,
including 41 in Vancouver, making it the city with the highest
number of reports. Sources of the reports include the National
UFO Reporting Center in the U.S., UFO*BC, the Houston B.C.
Centre for UFO Research and the Meteor and Impacts Advisory
Committee to the Canadian Space Agency.

Only 17 per cent of the 673 sightings remain unexplained-the
rest were simply fireballs, meteors or other natural phenomena.

Skeptics may brush off UFO sightings as the side effect of too
much B.C. bud, but some members of an organization called UFO*BC
believe the earth has been visited by alien ships.

Graham Conway, the group's vice president, claims to have
spotted 30 himself, and insists many more individuals are
willing to admit sightings these days. "The social acceptance
has changed. People are prepared to come forward and not feel
they'll be written off as kooks."

In 1947, Kenneth Arnold, a pilot involved in a search for a
downed aircraft near Mount Rainier, reported seeing nine objects
flying at an estimated 1,200 miles an hour across the mountains.
They were crescent-shaped, so he described them as saucers
skipping across the water-hence the term "flying saucers." For
Graham Conway, it sparked an interest in UFOs that's never
diminished. At the time, he was living in Sheffield, England and
interested in enigmas. "Fifty-seven years later, I'm nowhere
nearer a solution than the day I started," he says from the
living room of his middle-class home in Delta.

Aside from what many would consider a quirky obsession with
UFOs, the 76-year-old has led a relatively normal life, working
in the hospitality industry and teaching food studies and
consumer education in Ontario and B.C. After retiring in 1986,
he worked for the Salvation Army for eight years before landing
a job with the Delta School Board as a noontime supervisor at a
secondary school.

For a few years, he was associated with an American group called
the Mutual UFO Network, which bills itself as the world's
largest civilian UFO research organization, but found B.C.
reports seemed to drop into a black hole, never to be heard of
again. Frustrated, Conway and a small group of like-minded
friends formed UFO*BC in 1995, and were later joined by Martin
Jasek, a 40-year-old engineer for a utilities company.

The non-profit society operates a 24-hour hotline for reporting
sightings, a web site and a quarterly newsletter. Members also
host lectures on subjects ranging from alien abductions to
cattle mutilations and crop circles. Each year, they investigate
a few UFO reports in the Lower Mainland or Interior.

Jasek, the group's mild-mannered treasurer, developed an
interest in the subject while living in Whitehorse, where he
said reports of unidentified flying objects were plentiful.
Unlike Conway, he's only spotted one UFO-a term he uses
literally in this case, although he suspects that some UFOs are
"intelligently controlled craft" that are not man-made.

Jasek's brief sighting occurred in 1998, while driving across
Manitoba during daylight hours. He glanced over to a slight hill
on his left where a white ball, three metres in diameter and
roughly 200 metres away, appeared. Seconds later, it was
obscured by trees as the vehicle travelled along the highway. By
the time the trees cleared, it had disappeared. To this day,
Jasek, a soft-spoken, serious man, isn't sure what he saw.

Conway, however, has no reservations about his sightings.

With little prompting, he rattles off several anecdotes. In one
case, he was heading up Canada Way towards Edmonds Street when
traffic hit a standstill. Looking up, he spotted a red, disk-
shaped object, possibly six feet in diameter. None of the
passengers in the cars beside him appeared to see it. When
traffic moved forward slightly, the object became more mirror-
like, then headed in a northwesterly direction. Total viewing
time: five minutes.

Another time, Conway was moonlighting as a security officer at a
large parking lot on Annacis Island when he observed a square
aluminum-like craft hovering above a plant emitting steam that
was being circled by seagulls and eagles. Viewing conditions
were excellent, according to Conway, who watched it head
northeast towards the Fraser River for about 10 minutes.

Lack of physical proof does nothing to shake his confidence. In
fact, both men looked puzzled when asked if others see them as
eccentric or odd. "Most people do believe [in UFOs]," insists
Jasek. "You'd be surprised how many people you know have seen
something totally unexplainable, but they don't divulge it
without being prompted."

Conway speculates special psychic gifts passed down through
families make people like him more susceptible to seeing UFOs.
"We have thousands and thousands of reports. Every one can't be
a case of misidentification."

The National UFO Reporting Centre out of Seattle, WA.,
registered two notable UFO sightings in Vancouver last year.
One, on Feb. 12, just past 9 p.m., was from a self-described
"harsh critic of aliens and all that stuff," who lives in
downtown Vancouver on the 16th floor of a high-rise. The witness
was about to watch The Simpsons and spotted an object flying
over some buildings, initially brushing it off as light from a
construction crane. But that turned out not to be the case-nor
was the high-rise on a flight path and the lights weren't
blinking, as on an aircraft. Instead, they were "constantly
beaming a hazy sort of weird whitish/yellowish light."

"At first I didn't see the three lights on the triangular craft
until it very, very slowly, and I stress silently, without the
smallest sound, just hovered towards my building. I mean
anything made by man that flies only 500 meters away has to make
a sound."

After failing to find a camera in the apartment, the witness,
whose gender isn't apparent from the write-up, ran down to the
street and saw the "craft" travel vertically into the sky,
remain stationary for a while, then leave. "Some other people
saw this downstairs and they didn't care. They said it's no big
deal, probably some governmental plane. But what would a
governmental plane be doing in downtown Vancouver?"

At 3 a.m. Oct. 31, another person reported seeing red, orange,
green, blue, yellow and white lights rotating under and around
the edges of an object. The lights weren't bright. It was eerily
silent and the object was moving in "more of a hover, almost a
slight wobble from too low a speed," notes the entry. "It had to
be enormous in size. I guesstimate I was 1-2 kilometres from it,
then it passed behind a building." According to the witness, it
would have been visible to anyone outside at 3 a.m., near
English Bay or the Stanley Park area. Its altitude was very low,
a few hundred feet over the water at English Bay.

Don't bother trying to convince Lee Moller of the existence of
alien space crafts, however. To the computer programmer, a
founding member of the B.C. Society for Skeptical Enquiry, UFOs
are exactly that-unidentified flying objects that likely have a
rational explanation.

Moller argues the sheer distance between stars makes the
prospect of space travel highly unlikely. While the earth is one
"astronomical unit" or 98 million miles away from the sun, the
next nearest star is 300,000 astronomical units away from the
sun-that's four-and-a-half light years. "I'd actually be quite
shocked if there wasn't extraterrestrial life out there, but you
have to understand how big the universe actually is.
[Travelling] about between the stars is not a cheap thing to
do."

"If we ever talk to [extraterrestrial life], it's almost
certainly going to be through radio waves, not through personal
visits-at least in the short term."

Some people confuse conventional aircraft, landing lights,
satellites or planets with UFOs, suggests the 47-year-old
skeptic, because the average person is unfamiliar with natural
phenomena such as sun dogs-reflections of the sun that look like
big glowing balls-meteors or Venus, for instance.

Thanks to a temperate climate in B.C., more people also go out
walking, and are thus more likely to spot objects they can't
identify in the sky, Moller adds.

Moller cites several cases in which experts have exposed so-
called proof of UFOs. Philip Klass, known as the top UFO
debunker in the United States, has come up with plausible
explanations for a number of UFO sightings, including uncovering
the truth behind a striking photo taken by a Florida man. It
turned out to be a double exposure of an outdoor light with a
paper shade. "All I can really say is that if aliens did really
take the time and effort to travel the light years that's
required to actually come to the earth, somehow I don't think
they'd be communicating with us by zipping around the night sky
or drawing big patterns in crops," said Moller.

"Having said all that, I would love for it to be true. Nothing
would be more cool or interesting than the day humanity talks,
in any sense, to something off the planet-it's going to be one
of the greatest days in history."

Barry Beyerstein, a UFO skeptic and psychology professor at
Simon Fraser University who's been involved in brain research,
pointed out quasars and pulsars were once thought to be signs of
extraterrestrial life by noted scientists.

In 1970, he added, English physicist David Simpson conducted a
controlled hoax to expose UFOlogists' readiness to
unquestioningly accept sightings. Late one evening, he set up a
12-volt high-intensity purple spotlight directed towards a hill
three-quarters of a mile away in the town of Warminster,
England, where a group of 30 sky-watchers stood. It was switched
on and off at intervals. One of Simpson's colleagues operating a
fake magnetic field sensor was placed amongst the sky watchers.
At one point, he sounded its alarm buzzer, which signals the
presence of a strong magnetic field-supposedly a sign of UFOs.

Meanwhile, another colleague pretended to take a picture of the
light from a camera on a tripod. Part of the film had already
been exposed, capturing two images, according to an account of
the experiment written by Simpson. They depicted a night view of
street lamps with a bogus UFO superimposed. The photographer
took two real photos so the developed film would show four
negatives-two with UFOs and two without. "They were designed to
present substantial inconsistencies that would allow any
moderately critical investigator to cast strong suspicion on
their authenticity," Simpson wrote.

For more than two years, the hoax was kept secret while
UFOologists debated the supposed sighting.

Correspondence collected by Simpson during that time indicates
many concluded it wasn't a fake.

"...It is important to be aware of the general calibre of UFO
enthusiasts, even if they do not appear to have been directly
involved in the case. Their irrational thinking is infectious
and has frequently provided the media with entertaining
headlines," he wrote. "As a result, certain members of the
general public, on seeing something in the sky that is strange
to them, describe not what they see but what they think they
ought to have seen."

Although both Conway and Jasek argue it's equally important to
be skeptical of the skeptics, whose agenda is to disprove
everything, Beyerstein points out "the burden of proof is always
on the claimant."

Mark Murphy and Diana Luca insist they have proof of a UFO in
their tape, but Moller, for one, isn't convinced, after watching
a version of it posted on the web site www.rense.com.

While Moller doesn't doubt the couple's sincerity, he said he's
seen a lot of UFO photos and movies that look similar. He argues
that a small, shiny object the size of a Frisbee or pie plate
launched into the air could look exactly like what's captured on
film, pointing out the object only appears to stay in the air
for about three seconds. The shininess suggests it caught the
light of the setting sun and the cigar shape simply comes from a
change in the angle from which it's viewed.

Moller suspects the object disappears at the one third mark of
the tape simply because it fell from the sky, perhaps into a
neighbour's yard or field.

"In my view, this is an unremarkable movie," he wrote in an e-
mail. "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. I
find 'pie plate' more plausible than 'extraterrestrial,'
although I am happy to let the whole thing remain a UFO (or
perhaps TIFO, Tentatively Identified...), but not one I am going
to lose sleep over."

Murphy, who maintains he didn't make the tape to make money
although he is in "talks" with a producer from California, is
unmoved by critics, stressing the extreme rate of speed the
object travelled at.

"You can hear it in my voice how shocked I am. It's not a plane,
it's not a balloon, it's not a bird-that's no transportation for
humans. [Debunkers] can call me up-I'll debate any skeptic," he
said. "It could be the military, it could be aliens-who knows?
It was one of those things where the universe opened up and said
look what's out there."

Murphy insists he'd love to get to the bottom of the mystery and
wonders whether anyone else in his neighbourhood saw something
similar.

Luca said she never believed in extraterrestrial life until the
August experience. "Now, at this point, after I've seen it I
have this feeling-it's not a belief-that it's from another
world, something which we don't know, something we cannot
explain with our intelligence or something we can't perceive.

"It happened. We caught it on tape-that's it."

For information about UFO*BC or the skeptics society, check out
www.ufobc.ca and www.seercom.com/bcs/index.cgi

The web site for the Houston B.C. Centre for UFO research, which
can be reached at 1-250-845-2189, is at www.hbccufo.com

Brian Vike, Director
HBCC UFO Research
Home - Phone 250 845 2189
email: hbccufo.nul
Website: http://www.hbccufo.com








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   Mar > Mar 16

                    South Korea Suffers 'Alien Vengeance'

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 08:33:31 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 08:33:31 -0500
Subject: South Korea Suffers 'Alien Vengeance'




Source: Yahoo News

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20040315/od_uk_nm/oukoe_summar
y_9

Mar 15 2004

<snip>

South Korea Suffers Alien Vengeance

SEOUL (Reuters) - North Korea has put the blame squarely on
Washington for the impeachment of South Korean President Roh
Moo-hyun, but the Raelian movement has linked the roots of the
political crisis to a much higher power. The Swiss- based group,
which believes extraterrestrials created humankind, said Roh's
predicament was a direct consequence of alien ire over his
government's refusal to allow a leader of the group to visit
South Korea last year.

<snip>







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              Astronomers Discover Mysterious Planet-Like Body

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 08:36:54 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 08:36:54 -0500
Subject: Astronomers Discover Mysterious Planet-Like Body




Source: NASA Science

http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2004/16mar_sedna.htm?aol992746


Mysterious Sedna

Astronomers have discovered a mysterious planet-like body in the
distant reaches of the solar system.

March 15, 2004: NASA-funded researchers have discovered the most
distant object orbiting the sun. It's a mysterious planet-like
body three times farther from Earth than Pluto.

"The sun appears so small from that distance that you could
completely block it out with the head of a pin," said Dr. Mike
Brown, California Institute of Technology (Caltech), Pasadena,
Calif., associate professor of planetary astronomy and leader of
the research team. The object, called Sedna for the Inuit
goddess of the ocean, is 13 billion kilometers (8 billion miles)
away, in the farthest reaches of the solar system.

Above: An artist's rendition shows the newly discovered planet-
like object, dubbed "Sedna," in relation to other bodies in the
Solar System, including Earth and its Moon, Pluto, and Quaoar.

This is likely the first detection of the long-hypothesized
"Oort cloud," a faraway repository of small icy bodies that
supplies the comets that streak by Earth. Other notable features
of Sedna include its size and reddish color. After Mars, it is
the second reddest object in the solar system. It is estimated
Sedna is approximately three- fourths the size of Pluto. Sedna
is likely the largest object found in the solar system since
Pluto was discovered in 1930.

Brown, along with Drs. Chad Trujillo of the Gemini Observatory,
Hawaii, and David Rabinowitz of Yale University, New Haven,
Conn., found the planet-like object, or planetoid, on Nov. 14,
2003. The researchers used the 48-inch Samuel Oschin Telescope
at Caltech's Palomar Observatory near San Diego. Within days,
telescopes in Chile, Spain, Arizona and Hawaii observed the
object. NASA's new Spitzer Space Telescope also looked for it.

Sedna is extremely far from the sun, in the coldest known region
of our solar system, where temperatures never rise above minus
240 degrees Celsius (minus 400 degrees Fahrenheit). The
planetoid is usually even colder, because it approaches the sun
only briefly during its 10,500- year solar orbit. At its most
distant, Sedna is 130 billion kilometers (84 billion miles) from
the sun, which is 900 times Earth's solar distance.

Scientists used the fact that even the Spitzer telescope was
unable to detect the heat of the extremely distant, cold object
to determine it must be less than 1,700 kilometers (about 1,000
miles) in diameter, which is smaller than Pluto. By combining
available data, Brown estimated Sedna's size at about halfway
between Pluto and Quaoar, a smaller planetoid discovered by the
same team in 2002.

The elliptical orbit of Sedna is unlike anything previously seen
by astronomers. It resembles the orbits of objects predicted to
lie in the hypothetical Oort cloud--a distant reservoir of
comets. But Sedna is 10 times closer than the predicted distance
of the Oort cloud. Brown speculated that this "inner Oort cloud"
might have been formed billions of years ago when a rogue star
passed by the sun, nudging some of the comet-like bodies inward.

Left: Sedna lies farther from the sun than Pluto. Click on the
image to view Sedna's complete orbit.

"The star would have been close enough to be brighter than the
full moon, and it would have been visible in the daytime sky for
20,000 years," Brown explained. Worse, it would have dislodged
comets farther out in the Oort cloud, leading to an intense
comet shower that could have wiped out some or all forms of life
that existed on Earth at the time.

Rabinowitz said there is indirect evidence that Sedna may have a
moon. The researchers hope to check this possibility with NASA's
Hubble Space Telescope. Trujillo has begun to examine the
object's surface with one of the world's largest
optical/infrared telescopes, the 8-meter (26- foot) Frederick C.
Gillett Gemini Telescope on Mauna Kea, Hawaii. "We still don't
understand what is on the surface of this body. It is nothing
like what we would have predicted or what we can explain," he
said.

Right: This is what Sedna looks like through the Palomar
Observatory's 48-inch telescope. The dim object caught the
attention of astronomers because it was moving, slightly, across
the starry field. [More]

Sedna will come closer to Earth in the years ahead, but even at
closest approach, about 72 years from now, Sedna is very far
away--farther than Pluto. Then it will begin its 10,500-year
trip back to the far reaches of the solar system. "The last time
Sedna was this close to the sun, Earth was just coming out of
the last ice age. The next time it comes back, the world might
again be a completely different place," Brown said.







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   Mar > Mar 16

                              War Of The Words

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 08:39:27 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 08:39:27 -0500
Subject: War Of The Words




Source: Space.Com

http://space.com/scienceastronomy/mystery_monday_040315.html


15 March 2004

War Of The Words: Scientist Attacks Alien Claims

By Robert Roy Britt
Senior Science Writer

Astronomer Philip Plait is tired of radio personality Richard
Hoagland's claims. He's had enough of Hoagland's assertions that
NASA is covering up evidence of extraterrestrial life, that the
infamous Face on Mars was built by sentient aliens and, of late,
that otherworldly machine parts are embedded in the red planet's
dirt.

And then there's the mile-long translucent Martian worm.

On Hoagland's web site, there are several images from various
space probes said to possibly show evidence for ET. Recent Mars
rover photos include not just rocks, Hoagland and other
contributors maintain, but common objects that might tell of
alien civilization -- a bowl, a stove, a piston.

Hoagland has since 1983, he says, led "an outside scientific
team in a critically acclaimed independent analysis of possible
intelligently-designed artifacts" on other worlds, using
spacecraft data from NASA and other missions.

Plait, author of "Bad Astronomy" (Wiley & Sons, 2002), which
debunks space myths and common factual misconceptions, had for
years not countered Hoagland directly, because he did not want
to give a man he calls a "pseudoscientist" the "air time that he
so desperately seeks."

But last week Plait took his intellectual gloves off.

Shapes in the clouds

Plait has two words for the latest claims of alien objects on
Mars. The first is "garbage." The second and more scientific
word is "pareidolia." This is the same phenomenon that makes us
see animals or other familiar objects in clouds.

"It's pretty common," Plait said of pareidolia. "Just a few
months ago, a water spot on my shower curtain took on the
uncanny form of the face of Vladimir Lenin." Plait took a
picture of the liquid Lenin and uses it illustrate his
contention that, though objects on the surface of Mars can
sometimes take on interesting shapes, they are just a bunch of
rocks.

"Hoagland's claims irritate me because he is promoting
uncritical thinking," Plait told SPACE.com . "He doesn't want
you to think about what you're seeing. He's trying to bamboozle
you into believing what he's saying."

Critical thinking is the foundation of science, but Plait thinks
it's also an important skill for anyone trying to navigate
modern society. "Hoagland is eroding away at that ability."

Hoagland says the names given to objects shown on his web site
are nicknames, just as the rover scientists came up with
"blueberries" to describe small spherical objects on Mars.

"We are not saying there are stoves or pistons on Mars,"
Hoagland said in a telephone interview. "Absolutely not. When we
began looking at these objects, what struck us was how
remarkably symmetrical, how remarkably designed-looking, how
remarkably manufactured some of these things looked."

Hoagland's web site, however, does not make this distinction
with many rover images. A headline on the home page flatly
states that some objects on Mars are non-natural: "Spirit Sees
(and Still Ignores) More Artificial Junk." And the caption to
one reads, plainly, "an Unmistakable Machined Fitting." Another
caption reads: "When is a Rock Not a Rock? When They Come in
pairs!" And another: "A Collection of Mechanical Bits."

Hoagland said he suggested to scientists on the rover team that
they go study the objects up close to determine their
composition. "NASA chose not to," he said. "So we have a hanging
mystery. We don't know what these things are. We'll never know
what these things are."

Hoagland is routinely critical of Stephen Squyres, a Cornell
University astronomer who is mission manager for the Mars rover
mission. Squyres did not respond to a SPACE.com query regarding
Hoagland's claims.

It should be pointed out that NASA is not in the practice of
commanding its rovers based on suggestions from people outside
the agency or from beyond the Spirit and Opportunity science
teams, which together include dozens of leading geologists and
other scientists from inside the agency and from universities
around the country.

'Pseudoscience'

Philip Plait is an astronomer who develops space-related
classroom materials at Sonoma State University in California and
also works in public outreach on various NASA missions. He
spends his spare time working to right the cosmic wrongs -- big
and small -- promulgated by the popular media and around the
Internet. He is frequently invited to talk to large gatherings
of astronomers, who appreciate his efforts to correct mistakes
in the popular media.

Lately, Plait has heard Hoagland explain his views frequently on
the late-night Coast to Coast AM radio show, which is heard on
hundreds of stations. Meanwhile, a phenomenal flow of images
from NASA's Mars rovers has created a cottage industry in
scientific speculation about the red planet, at Hoagland's web
site and elsewhere.

"I've let this fester long enough," Plait wrote recently on his
web site, badastronomy.com. "This kind of pseudoscience is like
a virus. At low levels, it's no big deal, but when it reaches a
certain threshold it becomes sickening."

Plait works to debunk several specific alien-related claims made
on Hoagland's web site, enterprisemission.com. (Not all of the
scenarios are suggested by Hoagland himself.)

Here are snapshots of two arguments:

    * An image from the Mars Global Surveyor is said on
Hoagland's site to be a gargantuan, glass-like worm that's a
mile long. Plain as a pig in the clouds, the image does indeed
evoke the shape and features of a worm at the bottom of a
canyon. Evenly spaced arcs even resemble ribs. Plait says the
most likely explanation for the rib-like features is that
they're sand dunes, created by wind blowing through the valley.

    * An apparent bit of spacecraft debris from the rover
mission, photographed by Spirit, was dubbed a "bunny" by some.
Hoagland later said the bunny had been optically removed by
NASA. Plait points out that NASA scientists said the object
appeared to be lightweight, and thinks "it is far more likely it
simply blew away in the Martian wind."

Credentials questioned

Plait and other scientists question Hoagland's credentials and
say he is prone to inflating his accomplishments.

Hoagland did not graduate from college. "I didn't actually get a
degree," he said last week. He says he was "possibly the
youngest museum curator in the country" in the mid-1960s at age
19. He is a science writer with a keen interest in space.

Hoagland lists among his awards having received the Angstrom
Medal for Excellence in Science. But there's a catch.

Uppsala University in Sweden, with approval from Royal Swedish
Academy of Sciences, gives out the Angstrom Prize, which
includes a medal and a cash award, given in the honor of 18th
Century Swedish scientist Anders-Jonas Angstrom. Hoagland's
medal, however, came from the separate Angstrom Foundation
Aktiebolag (AFAB). This is a privately-owned company with no
connection to Uppsala University or the Royal Swedish Academy of
Sciences.

"There were no scientists involved in that decision," says Ralph
Greenberg, a professor of mathematics at the University of
Washington. Others who have researched Hoagland's medal say it
carries little if any merit and was not awarded by scientists or
a scientific organization.

Greenberg began looking into Hoagland's background for another
reason.

In a January 1980 article in the popular magazine Star & Sky,
Hoagland wrote of the possibility of an ocean of water under the
ice of Jupiter's moon Europa and that life might have arisen
there. Hoagland says today that the article presented "a radical
new theory," and his web site states Hoagland "is the originator
of this remarkable idea." The web site also states Hoagland
"became the first to propose ... the possible existence of deep
ocean life under the global ice shield perpetually surrounding
the enigmatic moon of Jupiter, Europa."

Greenberg heard Hoagland's claim and did a review of scientific
literature (Star & Sky, now defunct, was not a scientific
journal) and other writings and lectures. Greenberg found that
the ideas of water and life under Europa had both been put forth
before January 1980.

The first known suggestion that Europa might harbor a liquid
ocean was in a 1971 paper by John S. Lewis in the widely
respected science journal Icarus. The idea was discussed in
other papers in the mid-1970s by Lewis and by other scientists.

The possibility of that Europa's hypothesized ocean could
support life was discussed in June 1979 -- six months before
Hoagland's article -- by Benton Clark at a conference at NASA's
Ames Research Center.

"It's clear that [Hoagland] deserves no credit for proposing an
ocean under the ice on Europa," Greenberg told SPACE.com . And
regarding the notion of life: "Others before him wrote on the
same topic with more merit."

Greenberg says Hoagland deserves some credit for helping to
popularize the Europa ideas. But he is bothered that Hoagland
does not make an effort to set the record straight.

"He never made it quite clear that this was not his original
idea in any sense," Greenberg said. "I think it's really
shameful that he hasn't been willing to make it crystal clear."

Greenberg continues: "I don't think [Hoagland] really has any
scientific credentials. He's not a trained scientist in any
sense. He knows some facts. I don't think he has any depth of
knowledge. But he's a good talker, and maybe gives the
impression that he knows more and understands more than he
really does."

Hoagland said Greenberg's comments "are obviously being
viciously spun for the blatant political purpose of destroying
my credibility at this key moment -- when our criticisms of NASA
and the current rover mission are gaining legs. This is what
someone is apparently quite concerned about."

Hoagland said via e-mail over the weekend that his claim to an
ocean at Europa was the first to be based on Voyager 1 and 2
imagery of Europa, from flybys in March and July 1979, and that
his 1980 article was specifically referring to a previous paper
that said any water on Europa had likely become frozen.

"The question of who's first is tricky," Hoagland said.
"Clearly, I was not the first (nor have I ever claimed to be) to
propose an original liquid ocean for Europa. But I do maintain I
was the first to recognize in the new Voyager data that it might
still be liquid."

Greenberg points to the astronomer Carl Sagan as someone who had
discussed the Europa ideas with other scientists in the mid-
1970s. "But, I knew Carl -- and worked with him -- for decades,"
Hoagland says. "And he never once told me I was trespassing on
his turf, even after the Star & Sky piece was published."
Hoagland also says the author Arthur C. Clarke has mentioned him
as the originator of the life-on-Europa idea.

The Face on Mars

Hoagland is perhaps best known for promoting the Viking
Orbiter's "Face on Mars" image as evidence for an alien
civilization. Interestingly it was NASA that started discussion
over the face-like features. Here's how NASA's original caption
read when the image was released in 1976: "Shadows in the rock
formation give the illusion of a nose and mouth. Planetary
geologists attribute the origin of the formation to purely
natural processes."

Hoagland finds interest in much more than the Face itself. He
maintains that drawing lines between features in the Cydonia
region around the face creates angles that involve complex
mathematical formulas and geometric relationships that could
only point to intelligent construction.

His web site's mission statement argues that the Face is
surrounded by "crumbling high tech pyramids ... possible former
environmental arcologies left by someone who tried to make Mars
home... long before our fleeting, recent visits." The statement
then says there is disturbing evidence "of a profound,
deliberately politically-motivated cover-up of this important
data by both major spacefaring nations."

Plait analyzes the math and methodology. He says the precision
of angles and distances that Hoagland claims is greater than is
possible given the images from which Hoagland works. Moreover,
Plait wonders why Hoagland picks certain hills to include in his
diagrams instead of other nearby hills that appear
indistinguishable. Hoagland could be benefiting, he says, by
picking the points that, through random chance, indeed form
patterns.

"Any random set of numbers, when played with as Hoagland did,
will yield many coincidental mathematical relationships," Plait
says. "His mathematical analysis is so full of holes, flaws, and
misdirection that it is completely worthless."

Hoagland, in response, said Plait should talk with others who
have checked the math and shown it to be solid.

"There is a reasonable hypothesis that there could have been an
ancient civilization on Mars," Hoagland said, adding that the
idea has a lot of adherents around the world. "At no point has
NASA chosen to address this scientifically."

His beef with NASA is that the space agency should conduct
systematic studies -- based on standards that he would be
involved in setting -- to answer the questions he poses.

Hoagland says that as his group's effort has come closer to
figuring out "the truth regarding the science and politics of
'extraterrestrial artifacts in the solar system,'" the
opposition has become "rabid and relentless."







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   Mar > Mar 16

               Re: Tracing The Flow Of The Gulf Breeze Money -

From: Jerry Black <gulfbreezeinfo.nul>
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 20:07:40 -0800 (PST)
Fwd Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 08:44:25 -0500
Subject: Re: Tracing The Flow Of The Gulf Breeze Money -


March 14, 2004

To Mr. Bruce Maccabee,

Mr. Bruce Maccabee, please do not bore others and me with your
rehash of your conclusions presented at the MUFON Symposium in
1988. Your biased and illogical conclusions and in some cases,
outright untrue statements do not need to be repeated. It is
still my opinion that your biased and illogical conclusions
stated at the MUFON Symposium in 1988 were the results of a
large payment made to the MUFON Organization from Ed Walters
that was turned over to you, Mr. Maccabee.

I will now give you and your supporters the opportunity to prove
me wrong. You've obliviously shown, during the Gulf Breeze
sightings, that you are an avid supporter of the polygraph test,
even a self-sponsored polygraph test, which is not accepted by
most police departments and other security offices throughout
the United States.

I am now inviting you, Mr. Bruce Maccabee, to take a polygraph
test given by Mr. Cy Gilson who passed in 1992, Mr. Travis
Walton and Mr. Mike Rodgers who were involved in the Travis
Walton UFO abduction in 1975. Mr. Cy Gilson is located near
Snowflake Arizona and I will pay for the polygraph test and
reimburse you for any incidental expenses and meals. Since your
good friend Mr. Stanton Friedman has been your avid supporter, I
will allow him to pay for your travel expenses.

Mr. Cy Gilson has over 25 years experience as a qualified
polygraph expert and is well respected by the police departments
throughout the state of Arizona.

Mr. Bruce Maccabee, you will be tested to see if you received
any monies either directly from Mr. Ed Walters or the MUFON
Organization to which you knew came from Mr. Ed Walters other
than the monies that you received from the two books that both
of you gentlemen wrote.

Finally, you will be tested as to whether you truly believe in
your heart, that the Ed Walters Gulf Breeze case is a true and
valid case.

If you should fail the polygraph test given by Mr. Cy Gilson and
feel there was a personality problem or any other good reason
for failing, I will pay for and give you the test again with
polygraph expert Mr. Hugh Jones. You remember Mr. Hugh Jones I�m
sure, this is the gentleman whom Mr. Charles Flannigan set up an
appointment for Mr. Ed Walters, and Mr. Ed Walters missed his
appointment.

Your avid supporters and I await your reply.

Jerry Black can be reached at:

1-877-731-8400

or

P.O. Box 125,
Blanchester,
Ohio 45107







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               Re: Tracing the Flow of the Gulf Breeze Money -

From: Jerry Black <gulfbreezeinfo.nul>
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 20:09:27 -0800 (PST)
Fwd Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 08:47:10 -0500
Subject: Re: Tracing the Flow of the Gulf Breeze Money -



March 14, 2004

Mr. Stanton Friedman,

I've noticed recently in your reply to Kenny Young, you stated
that Mr. Bruce Maccabee, in your opinion was a very objective
investigator. Certainly nothing could be further from the truth
in the case of the Gulf Breeze sightings. The word objective was
not in Mr. Maccabee's vocabulary during his investigation into
the Gulf Breeze sightings.

Some may consider you standing by your good friend Mr. Bruce
Maccabee to be very noble, but considering you know nothing
about the Gulf Breeze sightings it was not a very smart move.

Please explain this to me, Mr. Friedman, how is it that three of
Mr. Bruce Maccabee's friends, Mr. Richard Hall, Mr. Jerome Clark
and Mr. Ray Fowler, do not support Mr. Bruce Maccabee's work in
the Gulf Breeze sightings. In another words, none of these
gentlemen believes Mr. Maccabee�s conclusions in the Gulf Breeze
sightings.

Would you please explain this for me, I eagerly await your
response.


Jerry Black can be reached at:

1-877-731-8400

or

P.O. Box 125,
Blanchester,
Ohio 45107









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   Mar > Mar 16

               Re: Tracing the Flow of the Gulf Breeze Money -

From: Jerry Black <gulfbreezeinfo.nul>
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 20:11:47 -0800 (PST)
Fwd Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 08:51:40 -0500
Subject: Re: Tracing the Flow of the Gulf Breeze Money -


Mr. Robert Gates

Your observation over the last several years, is that Rex
Salisberry had his own biases and an agenda. Those biases and
agenda, according to you, are that the Gulf Breeze sighting is a
hoax.

Your remarks about Mr. Rex Salisberry show me sir, that you
know totally nothing about Gulf Breeze. The only scientific and
objective investigator working for the Mutual UFO Network at
that time was Rex Salisberry. If you're looking for biased
investigators, sir, you need to look in the direction of Mr. Walt
Andrus and Mr. Bruce Maccabee.

The evidence I will present over the next several months will
show conclusively that Mr. Bruce Maccabee did indeed receive
monies from the Mutual UFO Network that were given to them by
Mr. Ed Walters.

Interesting to note when I told you things that Mr. Rex
Salisberry had told me, you challenged those remarks. However,
when alleged abductee, Katharina Wilson, from Gulf Breeze
Florida tells you something about Mr. Rex Salisberry, you print
it and believe it.

Respectfully, if you decide to talk intelligently about Gulf
Breeze, give me a call. If you don't call, I can only assume
that you have your biased mind already made up.


Jerry Black can be reached at:

1-877-731-8400

or

P.O. Box 125,
Blanchester,
Ohio 45107









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   Mar > Mar 16

                        Re: JPL's Mars UFO - Balaskas

From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul>
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 00:31:14 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
Fwd Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 09:12:40 -0500
Subject: Re: JPL's Mars UFO - Balaskas


>From: Lan Fleming <lfleming5.nul>
>To: UFO Updates <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 14:57:33 -0600
>Subject: Re: JPL's Mars UFO - Ledger

>>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 11:41:16 -0400
>>Subject: Re: JPL's Mars UFO - Ledger

>>>From: Lan Fleming <lfleming5.nul>
>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 12:09:11 -0600
>>>Subject: Re: JPL's Mars UFO

<snip>

>>>That's not the only one. It looks like this Navcam image shows "UFOs"
>>>going every which ways:

>>>http://tinyurl.com/2va5q

<snip>

>>I may be wrong but it's my uderstanding that The Soviets never
>>got a satellite to Mars. There is JPL's? Explorer that
>>disappeared back in the mid 90s. How about the Beagle II? Is
>>there any possibility that it just dropped ino the Mars' gravity
>>well and got captured due to a misfiring of it's propellants?

>I just read a post from Paul Anderson on the Cydonia List. He
>said that the image I referred to was a 5-minute time exposure
>and that JPL thinks the streaks were created by cosmic rays
>hitting the camera's CCD array.

Hi Everyone!

There are three other similar pictures taken with the Navigation
Camera on the Martian day Sol 067 that do not show any streaks
at all (see URL below)! From the times given for the first three
pictures, the exposure times for these three were much shorter
than the similar looking fourth picture with the streaks that
Paul Anderson says was a 5 minutes time exposure.

http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/spirit_n067.html

>That seems the most reasonable explanation to me. There are too
>many streaks for all of them to be satellites.

Where are the "cosmic ray" streaks in the first three pictures?

>With a long exposure, occasionally a cosmic ray will hit at a
>low grazing angle, creating a streak rather than a dot -- and
>there are a lot of dots on that image that probably are cosmic
>ray hits, too.

There are just too many long streaks to be easily explained as
cosmic rays with low grazing angles hitting the detector. Also,
one would expect that the metal(?) camera casing around the
detector would shield it from all such cosmic rays with low
grazing angles allowing mostly cosmic rays entering from the
front lense that would form the many bright point-like images.

As for the other pictures taken by Spirit during daylight hours,
what is that large object on the far rim of Bonneville crater
that is reflecting sunlight as if it was made of polished metal?

This artificial looking object with a shape like the letter V
(or two giant white rabbit ears!) appears in both pictures below
which were taken a day apart and at different local times and
Sun angles. Are there any plans to check it out from up close?

http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/2/n/066/2N132225906EFF1700P1943L0M1.J
PG

http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/2/n/067/2N132319976EFF1800P1816L0M1.J
PG

Does anyone know approximately where the Soviet Mars 2 and 3
landers came down on the Red Planet in 1971 (as I recall, Mars 3
stopped working after just 20 seconds), half a decade before the
two much more successful U.S. Viking landers?


Nick Balaskas








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   Mar > Mar 16

                           ACUFOS News March 2004

From: Sheryl Gottschall <gottscha.nul>
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 17:12:41 +1000
Fwd Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 09:13:35 -0500
Subject: ACUFOS News March 2004


The Australian Centre for UFO Studies March 2004 newsletter is
now available at:

http://www.acufos.asn.au/about/news.html


Sheryl Gottschall







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   Mar > Mar 16

               Report On 'UFOs & Fairies/Legends/Supernatural

From: Ray Dickenson <editor.nul>
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 12:59:43 +0000
Fwd Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 09:22:23 -0500
Subject: Report On 'UFOs & Fairies/Legends/Supernatural



Report on search for UFOs and Fairies/Legends/Supernatural
(and questioning of "mental block" on subject)

UFO UpDates contributions

Fri, 27 Feb, Senr. Thiago Luiz Ticchetti, Vice-Presidente EBE-
ET/Brasilia/DF, International Coordinator UFO Magazine Brazil,
posed question re. "correlation between UFOs and fairies,
mythology, legends, folklore and so on" on UFO Updates List

---------

Which fairly quickly became a discussion re. Little Green Men,
which, as per David Rudiak post, was a mid 1900's media
'put-down' of ET & UFO investigation.

Although, as Chris Aubeck and Greg Boone respectively noted, a)
world-wide check of folk-tales needed, b) some tales like
abductions and "changelings" seem international and timeless.

---------

On Tue 09 Mar 'Perceptions' suggested check on "Green Man"
'Perceptions' has habit of fighting mental blocks - if
possible.

---------

Thu, 11 Mar Trevor Seguin said "Green Man" embedded in Celtic
legend and also steered to "green children"

Follow-up found:

The Green Children of Woolpit, Suffolk, England (c. 1200 ?)

http://anomalyinfo.com/articles/sa00022.shtml

"no-one knows whether or not the Green Girl ever had children."

Other "greenchildren" plus older persistent stories of child-
abductions, substitutions and 'changeling' children - often with
"wizened, green faces" are found in Ireland, Scotland, Wales &
England

Plus, from Dr Brewer's "Dictionary of Phrase & Fable" (twelfth
edition) p. 365 gave some post medieval "Green Man" roles

a) animal - Head huntsman/gamekeeper (on estates)

b) plants - Herbalist and distiller

c) chemistry - Maker & igniter of "squibs and fireworks".

All hinting at relic (or relict) respect for "nature lore" of
pre-medieval "Green Man" legend.

---------

Forteana Group contributions

Sun, 14 Mar put the "green gods"/"green children" question to
forteans.

---------

Mon, 15 Mar Rachel Carthy posted news of "al-Khidr, the Green Man
of the Sufi" "He is the mysterious guide....."

http://khidr.org/khidr.htm

That webpage gave - "historically speaking, Islam inherited the
tradition of Khidr from earlier myths and faiths".

Again, an "immortal" guide from pre-history.

---------

Already we'd got an "ancient nature god" of pre-Celtic Britain,
"a setting of which at least one scholar (Prof J Morris Jones c
1900) said - "the pre-Aryan (ie. pre-Celtic) idioms which still
live in Welsh and Irish were derived from a language allied to
the Egyptians"

And, checking in Egypt, there was another "mystery god" - Bes,
who was originally pre-pantheonic, becoming "benevolent" god of
birth & guardianship:

http://www.touregypt.net/godsofegypt/bes.htm

said "he is never shown in profile, but always full-face, almost
unique in Egyptian art..... Bes is a very unusual god. He does
not appear to be Egyptian at all".

No temples to Bes, but, just like the Green Man, household
images and amulets. (Those checked seem to be of jasper or
faience (both greenish).

Bes image at:

http://www.perceptions.couk.com/westward.html#bes

---------

That was followed same day by Timothy Hodkinson's urging to
check claimed Celt - Egyptian links.

---------

So, re-read source to clarify (and got a "fortean" correlation
from "Perceptions" own memory):

"Whole thing is on p. 78 of "Myths and Legends of the Celtic
Race" (by TW Rolleston, last edition 1919 Harrap - London)

[Quote]:

"Rhys and Brynmor Jones find that the African origin - at least
proximately - of the primitive population of Great Britain and
Ireland is strongly suggested. It is here shown that the Celtic
languages preserve in their syntax the Hamitic, and especially
the Egyptian type"

(Footnote) 'The Welsh People' pp. 616-664 where the subject is
fully discussed in an appendix by Prof. J Morris Jones. "The
pre-Aryan idioms which still live in Welsh and Irish were derived
from a language allied to Egyptian and the Berber tongues"

[End Quote]

But here's something TW Rolleston et al would _not_ have known:
a fairly recent comparison of world blood-groupings (by a UK
uni?) made the news a few years ago when it matched a (native)
North Welsh population group to the blue-eyed Beduin (or
Berbers?) (Tauregs?)."

---------

Timothy also reminded us - "AFAIK green is regarded as being
associated with the Fairies, who you should never talk about"

---------

"Perceptions" notes that similar block or "geas" - due to
religious `ownership' of that color - also applies to eastern
world.

---------

[BTW, careful attributions, mine in third person, _might_ be
sub-conscious try to avoid retribution for breaking the geas.]

End of 'facts'.

---------

Pure Speculation

1) D'you feel `aversion' for this discussion? Why? Is there a
block of logical thought on this subject?

2) A (maybe) world-wide story of Green Man associated with
birth, (forced?) growth, guardianship, guidance - throughout the
ages. Maybe world-wide fear of abductions (mostly of babies) and
of "changelings"/substitutions.

Does this suggest primeval "breeding/construction program for
human race"?

3) "Green Men" are (indirectly) mocked/denigrated in media mid
1900's - around beginning of _heavy_ exploitation/destruction/
desecration of nature world-wide.

4) Are we led to Alfred Russel Wallace's thoughts?

http://www.perceptions.couk.com/uef/wallace.html#beings

And then to Anthony Roberts and Geoff Gilbertson's "Dark Gods"
analysis?

http://www.perceptions.couk.com/magic2.html#1

I.e. - was Charles Fort right when he said "I think we're
property...That once upon a time this Earth was No-Mans Land,
that other worlds explored and colonized here, and fought
amongst themselves for possession, but now it's owned by
something, all others warned off"?

D'you think "change of ownership" happened when Earth exhibited
atomic/nuclear weapons use?

Check http://www.perceptions.couk.com/uef/wb2.html


Cheers

Ray D

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Perceptions" http://www.perceptions.couk.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~






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   Mar > Mar 16

               Re: UFO Spies Vanish Into Black Hole - Connors

From: Wendy Connors <fadeddiscs.nul>
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 06:58:25 -0700
Fwd Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 09:29:36 -0500
Subject: Re: UFO Spies Vanish Into Black Hole - Connors


>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 09:30:52 -0600
>Subject: Re: UFO Spies Vanish Into Black Hole

>>From: Terry W. Colvin <fortean1.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>,
>>Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 17:51:39 -0700
>>Subject: UFO Spies Vanish Into Black Hole


>>Source: The Observer - London

>>http://observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,6903,1168923,00.html

>>March 14, 2004

>>UFO Spies Vanish Into Black Hole

>>Now you see them...

>>Mark Townsend
>>Sunday March 14, 2004
>>The Observer

>>Andy Roberts, author of UFO books and former magazine
>>contributor, said the public's fascination with mysterious
>>flying objects had faded. 'Ufology is really a thing of the last
>>century. The end of the X-Files series didn't help, and there
>>has been a decline since the televised alien autopsy of the mid-
>>1990s. Basically it was a hobby that broke into the
>>mainstream... Ultimately there was only a hardcore following,'
>>said Roberts.

<snip>

>Dead? Probably not. Sleeping? More likely. And in any event, the
>state of ufology's health at any given moment has nothing to do
>with the questions our subject, whether robust or anemic in
>popular perception, confronts. Ufology or no, those remain.


Gentlemen,

I have to agree with Jerry Clark. Ufology is far from dead or
even passe. Roberts, as usual, must be taking one of his
trips... and I'm not talking Club Med.

Let's see. During this lull in major activity, the following is
taking place while Roberts flits around like the tooth fairy:

1. Richard Hall is producing a major analysis of the 1966-67
Wave.

2. Jerry Clark is producing a major work on pre-1947 material...
which hasn't been tapped before.

3. Carl Fiendt is producing major work on underwater UFOs...
neglected for decades, I might add.

4. Vincente-Juan Olmos is cataloguing the photographic
evidence... much needed and has been for decades.

5. Jan Aldrich is compiling radar/UFO material from new
sources.

6. Loren Gross has completed his 30 year trek of UFO history in
his wonderful and very important booklet series from the Ghost
Rockets to 1959.

7. Frank Warren is hard at work digging up every scrap
detailing the Maury Island incident.

8. Francis Ridge is ensuring that the NICAP material is on-line
for the benefit of all... and that's a huge job, but a great
one.

9. Dominic Weinstein is hard at work updating his Pilot/Radar
databases.

10. Larry Hatch is still hard at work making the UFO database
something everyone can be proud.

11. Ann Druffel just gave us a major insight into Dr. James E.
McDonald.

Well, the list of projects continuing in Ufology is enormous and
world-wide. Ufology is far from dead. It's losing many of it's
fanatics, dingbats, do-do's, conspiracy nuts, etc., which is a
good thing, but they'll pop up in force when the next major wave
or event takes place.

What Ufology needs to lose is the Andy Roberts, who haven't a
clue as to what the hell they are talking about.


Wendy Connors
www.fadeddiscs.com







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   Mar > Mar 16

               Re: UFO Spies Vanish Into Black Hole - Flemming

From: Lan Fleming <lfleming5.nul>
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 08:04:55 -0600
Fwd Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 09:31:48 -0500
Subject: Re: UFO Spies Vanish Into Black Hole - Flemming


>From: Terry Colvin <fortean1.nul>
>Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 17:51:39 -0700
>Fwd Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 09:07:55 -0500
>Subject: UFO Spies Vanish Into Black Hole

>Source: The Observer - London

>http://observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,6903,1168923,00.html >

>March 14, 2004

>UFO Spies Vanish Into Black Hole


It seems that the British press feels obligated to periodically
declare the demise of UFOs. It was only a couple years ago that
they made a big deal out of the closure of the impressively
named "British UFO Bureau," which, as it turned out, was a
relatively small group that hadn't actually closed at all.

The British UFO Magazine folded because of decisions made for
personal reasons by the family of Graham Birdsall after his
untimely death and for no other reason that I'm aware of.

The cynical exploitation of what was essentially a family
tragedy to make a political point is a particularly disgusting
example of junk journalism.








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   Mar > Mar 16

                Re: UFO Spies Vanish Into Black Hole - Burns

From: Max Burns <max.burns.nul>
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 14:15:56 -0000
Fwd Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 09:38:04 -0500
Subject: Re: UFO Spies Vanish Into Black Hole - Burns


>From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 09:05:16 -0600
>Subject: Re: UFO Spies Vanish Into Black Hole

>>From: Terry W. Colvin <fortean1.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>,
>>Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 17:51:39 -0700
>>Subject: UFO Spies Vanish Into Black Hole

>>Source: The Observer - London

>>http://observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,6903,1168923,00.html

>>March 14, 2004

>>UFO Spies Vanish Into Black Hole

>>Now you see them...

>>Mark Townsend
>>Sunday March 14, 2004
>>The Observer

>>At its peak, tens of thousands would await the latest lurid
>>tales of alien autopsies and flying saucers spying on sleepy
>>market towns.

<snip>

>>Andy Roberts, author of UFO books and former magazine
>>contributor, said the public's fascination with mysterious
>>flying objects had faded. 'Ufology is really a thing of the last
>>century. The end of the X-Files series didn't help, and there
>>has been a decline since the televised alien autopsy of the mid-
>>1990s. Basically it was a hobby that broke into the
>>mainstream... Ultimately there was only a hardcore following,'
>>said Roberts.

<snip>

>Andy Roberts?

<snip>


Alfred, Terry, EBK and Listers

Here is a take on the post I recieved from a UK ufologist.

-----

..... "an article from today's Observer about the demise
of UFO Magazine.

Note the sneering, sententious tone. And note who is called upon
to speak on behalf of 'ufology'. Not the Chairman of BUFORA, nor
any member of BUFORA.

Not even Nick Pope or Tim Good.

Not a bit of it.

Instead, we are offered the jaundiced opinions of proven liar,
self-confessed hoaxer, professional-wrecker and muckraker, Mr
Andy Roberts.

And see how he never wastes an opportunity to spread his
denialist message.

In matters relating to PSI, one is driven to question The
Observer's commitment to serious news-reporting.


With best wishes,"

-----

Max








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               Re: Tracing The Flow Of The Gulf Breeze Money -

From: Wendy Connors <fadeddiscs.nul>
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 07:26:24 -0700
Fwd Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 09:42:56 -0500
Subject: Re: Tracing The Flow Of The Gulf Breeze Money -


>From: Jerry Black <gulfbreezeinfo.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 20:07:40 -0800 (PST)
>Subject: Re: Tracing The Flow Of The Gulf Breeze Money

<snip>

>To Mr. Bruce Maccabee,

<snip>

>I am now inviting you, Mr. Bruce Maccabee, to take a polygraph
>test given by Mr. Cy Gilson who passed in 1992, Mr. Travis
>Walton and Mr. Mike Rodgers who were involved in the Travis
>Walton UFO abduction in 1975. Mr. Cy Gilson is located near
>Snowflake Arizona and I will pay for the polygraph test and
>reimburse you for any incidental expenses and meals. Since your
>good friend Mr. Stanton Friedman has been your avid supporter, I
>will allow him to pay for your travel expenses.

Of course, Mr. Black, you'll agree to psychiatric testing?


Wendy Connors
www.fadeddiscs.com







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   Mar > Mar 16

               Re: UFO Spies Vanish Into Black Hole - Friedman

From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul>
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 10:36:41 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 09:47:11 -0500
Subject: Re: UFO Spies Vanish Into Black Hole - Friedman


>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 09:30:52 -0600
>Subject: Re: UFO Spies Vanish Into Black Hole

>>From: Terry W. Colvin <fortean1.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>,
>>Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 17:51:39 -0700
>>Subject: UFO Spies Vanish Into Black Hole

>>Source: The Observer - London

>>http://observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,6903,1168923,00.html >

>>March 14, 2004

>>UFO Spies Vanish Into Black Hole

>>Now you see them...

>>Mark Townsend
>>Sunday March 14, 2004
>>The Observer

>>Andy Roberts, author of UFO books and former magazine
>>contributor, said the public's fascination with mysterious
>>flying objects had faded. 'Ufology is really a thing of the last
>>century. The end of the X-Files series didn't help, and there
>>has been a decline since the televised alien autopsy of the mid-
>>1990s. Basically it was a hobby that broke into the
>>mainstream... Ultimately there was only a hardcore following,'
>>said Roberts.

<snip>

>This is, of course, sheer twaddle. If history teaches us
>anything, it's that (1) you can always get a credulous
>journalist to repeat nonsense and (2), more important, there is
>no way to extrapolate from ufology's current state what its
>future will be.

>Interest in UFOs was first pronounced dead in August 1947.
>Flying saucers were already being referred to in the past tense
>by the second or third week of the month before.

>As I learned while researching my encyclopedia, UFOs and
>ufologists have been pronounced dead practically since the
>beginning of either. I don't except myself from this
>foolishness. In the October 1983 issue of Fate, in a piece
>titled "Requiem for the UFO Age," I declared that ufology had
>gone the way of the dodo. This was, remember, less than four
>years before it entered yet another boom period. Nonetheless, a
>New York Times reporter phoned me within days of the piece's
>appearance for my "authoritative" word on the death of ufology.
>He listened as avidly and credulously as the Observer reporter
>above.

>I was to learn only later how often over history UFOs have been
>pronounced the product of last month, last year, last decade, or
>- now, as witness the pearls of wisdom in the above quote --
> last century.

>Where the question of ufology's vitality or lack of same is
>concerned, many variables are in play. For one example, the
>1958-1964 period, when many deemed ufology a dying enterprise,
>ended with major waves which brought new vitality. Beyond that,
>public attention is fickle, and in recent years there has been
>much to distract it, not the least of it a world that seems to
>grow more dangerous and violent by the day. Moreover, in recent
>years there have been no dramatic breakthroughs or controversies
>to excite outsiders or to draw new people into the field. Still,
>the phenomenon itself is not dead, and as long as it remains,
>the potential for new developments - or at least interesting new
>sightings - remains.

>Dead? Probably not. Sleeping? More likely. And in any event, the
>state of ufology's health at any given moment has nothing to do
>with the questions our subject, whether robust or anemic in
>popular perception, confronts. Ufology or no, those remain.


Certainly Roberts comments are nonsense. One might think that if
Graham Birdsall hadn't died, that UFO magazine would have died
anyway. After all he was just the owner, publisher, editor etc;
no basis given for saying readers had lost interest.

I should note that the formal debate between myself and James
McGaha at Middle Tennessee State University on January 28, had
an overflow crowd with people literally in the aisles. The 2 Hour
video is available at:

POB 958,
Houlton,
ME 04730-0958

US $15

My lecture at London (Ontario) Public Library drew over 300 who
paid $11.each. Last fall at Brevard Community College in
Titusville, FL, there were over 500 who paid $5:00. In December
my lecture "Flying Saucers ARE Real" on the Queen Elizabeth 2,
drew what was described to me by a traveler who had taken many
QE 2 cruises as the largest lecture crowd he had seen on all his
cruises.

Rumours of the death of ufology have been greatly exaggerated.


Stan Friedman







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   Mar > Mar 16

                                Mars Landers?

From: James Smith <zeus001002.nul>
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 09:37:12 -0500 (GMT-05:00)
Fwd Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 09:50:35 -0500
Subject: Mars Landers?


Does anyone know, approximately, where the Soviet Mars 2 and 3
landers came down on the Red Planet in 1971?

As I recall, Mars 3 stopped working after just 20 seconds, half
a decade before the two, much more successful, U.S. Viking
landers.....

Also:

1974 Mar 12 Mars 6 impacted at 24S 25W








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                     New Zealander First To Explain UFOs

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 19:05:50 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 19:05:50 -0500
Subject: New Zealander First To Explain UFOs




Source: Scoop - New Zealand

http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/SC0403/S00064.htm

17 March 2004


PRESS RELEASE:

New Zealander First To Explain UFOs

For centuries unexplained lights have appeared in the night sky
with no suitable theory though many have been advanced. A New
Zealander is claiming he was the first to successfully explain
the mystery lights commonly called "UFOs" with a unified theory.
These are the hard-to-explain UFO cases. Author and researcher
Peter Coleman has revealed the real science behind these
unexplained UFO fireballs.

His unified theory not only explains these UFO chariots of fire
but in one sweeping theory ball lightning, the Tunguska
"meteor", the Kaikoura UFOs, the Australian Min mins, the will
o'the wisp and several other events are accounted for. Not
content with theory he has actually created the fireballs in the
laboratory and published the results in a 1999 Spring issue of
EOS Transactions a publication of the American Geological Union.

His theory first appeared in 1993 in Weather (publication of
Royal Meteorological Society of the UK) and in New Scientist 22
May, 1999. He has since written two books Ball Lightning-a
scientific mystery explained (limited edition) that challenges
the idea that ball lightning is an unsolved problem especially
the book by Mark Stenhoff called Ball Lightning- an unsolved
problem. Peter's latest book is Great Balls of Fire-A unified
theory of UFOs, ball lightning, Tunguska and other anomalous
lights is expected to be available sometime this year.

-----

EXPERIMENTAL FIREBALL IMAGE

CAPTION: This was produced in a specialised combustion chamber
with air flowing in through vanes at the bottom to create a
vortex. The fuel gas is LPG. The gas is burning within the
vortex environment. The confined vortex coupled with the burning
gas is experimental. One would expect to see an unconfined
vortex burning and moving at the same time. These vortex
fireballs can get larger up to several meters in diameter. It is
this phenomenon that the author is proposing to explain UFO
fireballs, ball lightning and some anomalous meteors.

-----

The key idea is that many UFO reports are actually luminous
vortices. Only vortices have the power and unpredictibility to
account for extreme events. Couple this to the idea that a
vortex is actually on fire in a spheroidal zone of vortex
breakdown and you have a potent formula that will explain many
puzzling lights.

Vortex breakdown is the essential element. The low air speeds in
this region enable a combustion flame to survive amidst the
surrounding high speed air streams. Imagine seeing such a vortex
at night all that you would see would be the fireball region
moving around in seemingly unpredictable fashion and against the
wind!

That such atmospheric vortex burners should exist is
indisputable and first postulated by Coleman. The whole concept
is firmly based on known ideas and results in science. Coleman
believes that a correct solution could not have eventuated prior
to 1957 simply because vortex breakdown was discovered in 1957
on the leading edge of model wings of planes.

The speculation and confirmnation that naturally occurring
vortices should exhibit vortex breakdown would have have come
later. Vortex breakdown has been seen in tornadoes only
relatively recently by Pauley and Snow in 1988. Reports in early
meteorological literature testify that such vortex burners
exist. Collectively there is now sufficient evidence in favour
of this unified theory.

Dr Stanley Singer a ball litghtning researcher, retired
Professor Karl Nickel, Russian Scientists such as Marina Pankova
and now a prominent scientist and physicist Bernard Haisch
thinks that the theory may explain some UFOs.


Peter F Coleman
75 Wychbury St
Christchurch
Phone 960-9905







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                       'The Truth' According To Greer

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 19:15:00 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 19:15:00 -0500
Subject: 'The Truth' According To Greer




Source: CSETI

http://www.cseti.org/programs/bookdictation2004.htm

THE TRUTH

(THE POWER ELITES DON'T WANT YOU TO KNOW)

You are invited to spend 5 days with Dr. Greer at his farm in
Virginia to hear what he has learned after 14 years of
investigations


Start Date/Time: Sunday April 18, 2004 6 pm

End Date/Time: Thursday, April 22, 2004 midnight

Limited to 15 people, this unique event will be an oral
presentation of the unvarnished truth. Designed to be the core
of Dr. Greer's next book, at these presentations you will be
privy to what really happens behind the scenes and to how the
world's evolution has been hijacked for nearly a century by
craven power interests.

The event will be an informal gathering where Dr. Greer will
present his first hand accounts and personal experiences, dating
from childhood, regarding:

+ The nature of reality and the experience of higher states of
consciousness

+ What extraterrestrial contact is really about

+ What the religious elites don't want you to know about
spirituality and why the priesthood is obsolete

+ Who runs the shadowy secret government - and why

+ The people, the corporations, facilities and agencies hiding
the biggest secrets in history

+ Who has stolen the free energy technologies - and why

+ Disclosure - The inside look at 14 years of Dr. Greer meeting
with the World's Power Elites - and what they know (and don't
know)

+ The next 500,000 years: Blueprint of the golden age of
humanity

+ And more ...

Dinners will be provided at the Farm and sessions will go from
1:30 pm to around midnight each evening.

All sessions will be recorded.

Weather permitting, we will gather under the stars each evening.

Fee: A minimum $600 donation to The Disclosure Project (more is
appreciated).

Notes:

+ This event requires a minimum of 10 and maximum of 15 people.
We will make a decision on March 28th on whether it is a "GO",
depending on how many people have signed up. Please wait for
notification before booking flights.

+ We reserve the right to select the 15 people from the list of
applicants.

+ Everyone will be required to sign a Non-Disclosure Agreement.

+ Anyone who has not attended a CSETI training will be required
to fill out an application.

+ Everyone attending must stay the whole time, except if an
emergency comes up at the last minute.

For more information or to apply, please contact Debbie Foch,
the CSETI Coordinator, via

Email (preferred): coordinator.nul
Phone: 1-888-ET-CSETI (1-301-249-3915) or Fax: 1-877-92-CSETI (1-501-325-8328).

The best time to call is between 1:30 and 4:30 pm Eastern time.
Please leave a voice mail message if no one answers

Payment Methods

Credit Cards (Visa or Master Card) or Checks made payable to The
Disclosure Project.

Mail Checks to:
CSETI/Disclosure Project
PO Box 4556
Largo, MD 20775
USA

or Fax Visa/Master Card Credit Card payments to:
1-877-92-CSETI (1-877-922-7384) or 1-501-325-8328

or Call Debbie at 1-888-ET-CSETI (1-888-382-7384) or 1-301-249-3915.

or ask about PayPal payments.

Back to Schedule of Events








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   Mar > Mar 16

             Re: UFO Magazine Folds After Editor's Death - Hale

From: Roy Hale <roy.nul>
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 14:42:38 -0000
Fwd Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 19:19:00 -0500
Subject: Re: UFO Magazine Folds After Editor's Death - Hale


>From: From: Joe McGonagle <joe.mcgonagle.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 22:43:04 -0000
>Subject: Re: UFO Magazine Folds After Editor's Death

>I did not forget, please don't put words in my mouth. Is it your
>opinion that all material presented as research in printed
>format always stands up to closer scrutiny? Well you are welcome
>to your opinions, I'll stick to the facts - on the odd occasion
>when a magazine presents an article as research, the so-called
>research does not always stand up to scrutiny.

Hi,

Do you believe that after 50 years of FSR being published, their
article research stands up to scrutiny?

>The direct answer is that no change in my position, with regard
>to FSR, occured between the posts which are under discussion. If
>you still don't understand I am sorry, I can't help you.

So if there is no change in your position, you still feel that
FSR is a magazine for stories, right!

It is not my opinion that is in question, you fell into the trap
of mocking one of the UKs most established UFO magazines.

You now advocate people to subscribe to FSR, and you deserved to
be pulled up and asked on how such a change had occured within a
few months from your reply to my original mail.

And besides, aren't you a sceptic? What would a sceptic be
doing asking people to subscribe to a Pro Humanoid Contact
Magazine? Am I the only person on this List who finds this odd?


Roy









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               Re: Tracing the Flow of the Gulf Breeze Money -

From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul>
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 11:11:30 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 03:00:15 -0500
Subject: Re: Tracing the Flow of the Gulf Breeze Money -


>From: Jerry Black <gulfbreezeinfo.nul>
>To: UFO Updates <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 20:09:27 -0800 (PST)
>Subject: Re: Tracing the Flow of the Gulf Breeze Money

>March 14, 2004

>Mr. Stanton Friedman,

>I've noticed recently in your reply to Kenny Young, you stated
>that Mr. Bruce Maccabee, in your opinion was a very objective
>investigator. Certainly nothing could be further from the truth
>in the case of the Gulf Breeze sightings. The word objective was
>not in Mr. Maccabee's vocabulary during his investigation into
>the Gulf Breeze sightings.

>Some may consider you standing by your good friend Mr. Bruce
>Maccabee to be very noble, but considering you know nothing
>about the Gulf Breeze sightings it was not a very smart move.

>Please explain this to me, Mr. Friedman, how is it that three of
>Mr. Bruce Maccabee's friends, Mr. Richard Hall, Mr. Jerome Clark
>and Mr. Ray Fowler, do not support Mr. Bruce Maccabee's work in
>the Gulf Breeze sightings. In another words, none of these
>gentlemen believes Mr. Maccabee's conclusions in the Gulf Breeze
>sightings.

>Would you please explain this for me, I eagerly await your
>response.


Rather an odd question to ask me why other people do or do not
believe something. Try asking them. One need only to compare
track records (scientific publications etc,) to be much more
likely to believe Dr. Maccabee than Mr. Black.

As a scientist myself, I try to reach my own conclusions, not
have them determined by a vote of others. My track record on
Roswell, MJ-12, star travel,etc clearly shows my willingness to
dig deeply and to maintain a large gray basket.

I have no reason to buy into your personal vendetta, and won't
even guess what your motivation is. It hardly seems to be a
search for truth.

Stan Friedman

www.v-j-enterprises.com/sfpage.html







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   Mar > Mar 17

               Re: Tracing The Flow Of The Gulf Breeze Money -

From: Terry Groff <terry.nul>
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 09:42:43 -0600
Fwd Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 03:01:19 -0500
Subject: Re: Tracing The Flow Of The Gulf Breeze Money -


>From: Jerry Black <gulfbreezeinfo.nul>
>To: UFO Updates <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 20:07:40 -0800 (PST)
>Subject: Re: Tracing The Flow Of The Gulf Breeze Money

>March 14, 2004

>To Mr. Bruce Maccabee,

>Mr. Bruce Maccabee, please do not bore others and me with your
>rehash of your conclusions presented at the MUFON Symposium in
>1988. Your biased and illogical conclusions and in some cases,
>outright untrue statements do not need to be repeated. It is
>still my opinion that your biased and illogical conclusions
>stated at the MUFON Symposium in 1988 were the results of a
>large payment made to the MUFON Organization from Ed Walters
>that was turned over to you, Mr. Maccabee.

>I will now give you and your supporters the opportunity to prove
>me wrong.


Mr. Black,

No one is required to prove you wrong. Since you are the
accuser, you must prove yourself right. We are all waiting to
see and hear your "proof", not your anecdotes and hearsay.


Terry Groff

UFO Tools
http://terrygroff.com/ufotools/








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               Re: Tracing The Flow Of The Gulf Breeze Money -

From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg.nul>
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 08:14:54 -0600
Fwd Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 03:04:34 -0500
Subject: Re: Tracing The Flow Of The Gulf Breeze Money -


>From: Jerry Black <gulfbreezeinfo.nul>
>To: UFO Updates <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 20:07:40 -0800 (PST)
>Subject: Re: Tracing The Flow Of The Gulf Breeze Money

>March 14, 2004

>To Mr. Bruce Maccabee,

<snip>

>I am now inviting you, Mr. Bruce Maccabee, to take a polygraph
>test given by Mr. Cy Gilson who passed in 1992, Mr. Travis
>Walton and Mr. Mike Rodgers who were involved in the Travis
>Walton UFO abduction in 1975. Mr. Cy Gilson is located near
>Snowflake Arizona and I will pay for the polygraph test and
>reimburse you for any incidental expenses and meals. Since your
>good friend Mr. Stanton Friedman has been your avid supporter, I
>will allow him to pay for your travel expenses.

<snip>

>Your avid supporters and I await your reply.


It doesn't really matter what the 'actuality' (regarding verity)
of a polygraph test is, Mr. Black. Lay perception is (and
perception is reality, accurate or no) that a polygraph test may
establish innocence, but that it will establish guilt, even if
it's innocence extant. Your demand for a polygraph is specious,
misleading, and not a little insulting with that in mind, and
says a little more about you, I think, than about Dr. Maccabee.
Perhaps you should take a polygraph test, yourself, regarding
what's really driving you vis a vis the bone you continue to
pick with a person that's gone three plus decades (in a disgrace
encouraging field) without one time disgracing himself... All
you have shown thus far is hearsay, innuendo, and unsupported
serious charges like they were fact... I'd think a gentleman
would keep still. You're clear about what you think and what you
think you know... but what can you prove? If you can't prove it,
you ought to stuff a sock in it.


Lehmberg.nul

EXPLORE "AlienViewGroup" at its HostPros URL.
http://www.alienview.net


JOHN FORD RESTORATION FUND -- John will be released eventually.
He'll need a tax free cash stake to get on his feet. Let's put
one together for him; the bigger it is -- the more attention
he gets. It could have been you. E-mail for detail.
$450.00 pledged -- $200.00 collected!

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite.
What others see from afar, I leave far behind me."
- Giordano Bruno, scourged by the scabrously specious scurrilous.








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   Mar > Mar 17

                         Re: JPL's Mars UFO - Groff

From: Terry Groff <terry.nul>
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 09:56:16 -0600
Fwd Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 03:06:48 -0500
Subject: Re: JPL's Mars UFO - Groff


>From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 00:31:14 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
>Subject: Re: JPL's Mars UFO

>>From: Lan Fleming <lfleming5.nul>
>>To: UFO Updates <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 14:57:33 -0600
>>Subject: Re: JPL's Mars UFO - Ledger

>>>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 11:41:16 -0400
>>>Subject: Re: JPL's Mars UFO - Ledger

>>>>From: Lan Fleming <lfleming5.nul>
>>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>>Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 12:09:11 -0600
>>>>Subject: Re: JPL's Mars UFO

><snip>

>>>>That's not the only one. It looks like this Navcam image shows "UFOs"
>>>>going every which ways:

>>>>http://tinyurl.com/2va5q

><snip>

>>>I may be wrong but it's my uderstanding that The Soviets never
>>>got a satellite to Mars. There is JPL's? Explorer that
>>>disappeared back in the mid 90s. How about the Beagle II? Is
>>>there any possibility that it just dropped ino the Mars' gravity
>>>well and got captured due to a misfiring of it's propellants?

>>I just read a post from Paul Anderson on the Cydonia List. He
>>said that the image I referred to was a 5-minute time exposure
>>and that JPL thinks the streaks were created by cosmic rays
>>hitting the camera's CCD array.

>There are three other similar pictures taken with the Navigation
>Camera on the Martian day Sol 067 that do not show any streaks
>at all (see URL below)! From the times given for the first three
>pictures, the exposure times for these three were much shorter
>than the similar looking fourth picture with the streaks that
>Paul Anderson says was a 5 minutes time exposure.

http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/spirit_n067.html


Hi Nick,

I'm kinda curious why on this page they show the right and left
navcam images for all shots except they skyward shots of which
they only show the right camera images. What did they left cam
images see?


Terry








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   Mar > Mar 17

                       UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 9 Number 11

From: John Hayes <webmaster.nul>
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 16:20:00 +0000
Fwd Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 03:11:49 -0500
Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 9 Number 11


Posted on behalf of Joseph Trainor.

<Masinaigan.nul>
==========================

     UFO ROUNDUP
Volume 9, Number 11
March 17, 2004
Editor: Joseph Trainor

E-Mail: Masiniagan.nul
Website: http://www.ufoinfo.com/roundup/


SHOOTDOWN ON MARS?

      "European scientists are examining an image of the
Beagle 2 Mars lander, taken moments after it was spun off
from the mother ship, that also shows an unidentified
object."
      "The mysterious blot on the photograph has been
scrutinised as one of several potential reasons for the
failure of the mission--Europe's first attempt to land a
probe on the Red Planet."
      Beagle 2 journeyed to Mars aboard the Mars Express.
The craft's separation from the orbiter was successful,
but when British scientists attempted to contact the
lander on Christmas Day 2003, they received no reply.
Further attempts proved equally fruitless, and Beagle 2
was presumed lost.
      "Mission controllers told a London meeting that they
were also considering the possibility that Beagle 2 simply
crashed onto the surface of Mars because the atmosphere on
the planet was less dense than expected."
      "Scientists said they are examining photographs of
the landing site that show four bright spots, dubbed 'the
string of pearls,' that might be the Beagle 2's remains."
      "Beagle 2 has not been heard from since it was
ejected from the European Space Agency's Mars Express
orbiter in mid-December (2003).  The 143-pound probe gave
no answering signal to scheduled attempts to contact it on
Christmas Day and has remained stubbornly silent ever
since."
      Some British ufologists maintain that the image shows
a UFO making an attack run on the Beagle 2 as it departed
from the orbiter.  (See The Scotsman for March 8, 2004,
"Did UFO bring down Beagle?"  Many thanks to Jim Hickman
for this newspaper article.  And be sure to visit Jim's
Web site at http://www.thehickman report.com)


WINGED WIERDIE SEEN IN
WEST MIDLANDS, UK

      On Monday, March 8, 2004, at 9:30 p.m., Steve Nicklin
and a friend "were walking across" Northicote Farm in
Wolverhampton, West Midlands, UK "nearby an old Tudor
farmhouse" when "me and a friend saw a humanoid greyish
figure with a human-type head standing in a tree (part of
many trees that border the farm; these were tall pine
trees, and the figure stood in the top branches--S.N.)  We
estimated its size at around 7 feet (2.1 meters).  It had
two legs and two arms connected to membrane-type wings.
Its clawed arms seemed connected to these wings, a bit
like a pterosaur."
      "It moved its head and looked directly at us, since
the moon was full and there were street lights not far
away (the farm is near a heavily-used road--S.N.).  It
turned its head from us, took one giant leap and glided to
the next tree.  The tree bent under this creature's weight
as it took the impact."
      "It then turned its head to look at us once more.
Its gaze felt that it could look into our very being.  We
both felt quite scared (even though my friend is an ex-
artillery officer in the Territorial Army and has done a
lot of night patrols--S.N.)  We both fled quickly."
      "We sat down and discussed what we had seen.  It was
a creature the like" of which "we had never seen before
nor want to ever see again."  (Email Form Report)


STRANGE FIREBALL SIGHTED
IN EASTERN ILLINOIS

      On Tuesday, March 9, 2004, at 9:15 p.m., Ken Walker
was outdoors in Paxton, Illinois (population 4,525) when
he spotted "just a large flaming ball.  I figured it was
just a meteorite, but you never know.  It was rather large
and still big when it hit the treeline at the area of Ten
Mile Grove, outside of Paxton in Ford County."
      "It was a few hundred feet above the treeline when I
noticed it from the corner of my eye," Ken reported, "I
watched it come down until it hit the treeline.  I think
it hit inside the area of Ten Mile Grove, which has three
ponds and a small forest."
      The fireball had "yellow-white flames.  It was round,
a ball of flames...at least at the face of it.  I saw no
sparks, just flames.  It was already pretty close to the
treeline at that point.  There is a tiny forest preserve
there (private property--K.W.)  I think it fell behind
it."
      "As large as the fireball was, it had to be at least
several feet in diameter.  If it was not as close as I
thought it was, then it was probably really big.  The
weather was calm, and no aircraft were in the area.  It
was coming down at an angle from northeast to southwest
(or maybe just east to west--K.W.)."
      Paxton, Ill. is just west of Interstate Highway I-57
approximately 117 miles (187 kilometers) south of Chicago.
(Many thanks to Canadian ufologist Brian Vike for this
report.)


BLUE ELLIPTICAL UFO SEEN
IN WASHINGTON STATE

      On Thursday, March 11, 2004, at 2 a.m., Matti A. was
at her home on Bainbridge Island in the USA's state of
Washington when she saw a UFO approach from the east
across Puget Sound.
      "I was standing inside my house in front of the
door," Matti reported, "I glanced up at the sky and saw a
very bright blue elliptical shape with a bright white
light bordering the shape."
      "The object almost instantly disappeared after
shooting from the right of my (field of) vision to the
left of my vision.  I instantly thought that it was a
comet or a falling satellite, but there was no tail or
trail, except for a very brief light trail.  It winked out
extremely quickly."
      "The object was around an inch or more long, as I saw
it in the sky, which means it had to have been traveling
in the earth's atmosphere.  The color and brightness of
the object were completely stunning, like nothing I've
ever seen in the sky.  The object was about an inch and a
quarter or an inch and a half long as I saw it.  Its speed
was incredibly fast, and it was gone almost
instantaneously."
(Email Form Report)


TWO UFOs PHOTOGRAPHED
IN SOUTHERN BRAZIL

      A building's Webcam accidentally photographed two
silvery UFOs in the daytime sky over Porto Alegre, capital
of the state of Rio Grande do Sul in southern Brazil.
      On Tuesday, March 9, 2004, at 9:44 a.m., the security
camera picked up bright sun flashes over Bahia Guaiba
(bay) just south of the seaport city.  As the objects
closed in, they were "clearly identifiable as silver
spheres, flying in formation."
      The two UFOs made a single pass over the center of
Porto Alegre and then made a long curving turn to the
east, north of Viamao airport, heading towards the South
Atlantic.
      Porto Alegre is about 800 kilometers (500 miles)
south of Rio de Janeiro.  (Muito obrigado a Eustaquio
Andrea Patounas por eso caso.)



STRANGE HAPPENINGS
NEAR AREA 51

      On the morning of Saturday, February 21, 2004, "a
locksmith received a call from a motorist complaining that
the remote-control locking system on his late-model car
refused to respond.  The old-fashioned key, linked to the
same circuitry, wouldn't work, either."  The caller asked
the locksmith to come over and "fix whatever had gone
wrong."
      "A couple of minutes later, another locksmith's phone
rang.  Different caller.  Same problem."
      "By the end of the day, the best estimate is that
police, firefighters, locksmiths, car dealerships and tow-
truck drivers in Las Vegas had received at least 200 calls
from stranded motorists.  Many who are still puzzling over
the incident put the figure as high as five times that."
      "'Maybe it's those little green men,' joked Mike
Estrada, a spokesman for the U.S. Air Force's Nellis air
base" in Nevada, "about 100 miles (160 kilometers) north
of Las Vegas.  He was referring to the fabled Area 51
military research facility, which sits smack in the middle
of Nellis's bombing range and where UFO buffs, conspiracy
researchers and others have long maintained that the
Pentagon picks apart space aliens and their crashed flying
saucers."
      "This time, the likely culprit, according to some,
was a top-secret test of equipment intended to fry an
enemy's circuitry."
      "'As a working hypothesis, the idea that a military
test of some sort was responsible isn't far-fetched,' said
John Pike, director of the Global Security think tank" in
Washington, D.C.  (See The Age of Melbourne, Australia for
March 8, 2004, "So, who did fry those car locks?"  Also
the Las Vegas Review-Journal for February 22, 2004.  Many
thanks to Trevor Griffet for these newspaper articles.)


MOTHMAN STRIKES AGAIN;
FILM EXTRA DIES

      "Betty Jane Mulligan, of Pine Township, Allegheny
County," Pennsylvania, "an engineer, gardener and actress,
died Monday, March 8, 2004.  She was 82."
      "No challenge was too great, no undertaking too
daunting."
      "'She was always an independent soul,' said her
daughter, Judy Brant, also of Pine Township."
      "Mrs. Mulligan appeared as an extra in at least 15
movies, including Lorenzo's Oil, The Silence of the Lambs,
The Mothman Prophecies and Dogma."
      Mrs. Mulligan's is the latest of several deaths that
have come to people associated with the making of the 2002
film, The Mothman Prophecies, which has sparked rumors of
a "Mothman Curse."  (See the Pittsburgh, Pa. Tribune-
Review  for March 11, 2004.  Many thanks to Loren Coleman
for this newspaper article.)


COUPLE SEES A LARGE UFO
IN FRESNO, CALIFORNIA

      On Wednesday, March 10, 2004, at 7:15 p.m.,
eyewitness L.J. and his wife were outdoors in Fresno,
California (population 427,652) when they spotted a UFO
"about a mile or two away.  Ten to twenty lights going in
a circle around the object.  Weather was clear and warm.
We had it in view for five minutes.  There was an airplane
on the southern horizon.  It was a solid object, too far
away for a direct reflection from anything from the
ground.  The object was slowly departing, heading south."
      L.J. described the UFO as "a huge disk with red
lights flashing around the center.  It flew over the
Fresno Air Terminal/National Air Guard airfield and made
no sound.  It was maybe the width of a small city block.
Departure speed was slow.  Height (Altitude) was hard to
tell because the thing seemed so huge."  (Many thanks to
Brian Vike for this report.)


BLUFF CREEK BIGFOOT A
HOAX?  WITNESS SAYS YES!

      "Thirty-six years after the fact, Bob Hieronimus'
conscience finally caught up with him; he confessed to
having donned a gorilla costume and appearing in the
famous 1967 film footage of Bigfoot."
      "'It's time people knew it was a hoax,' Hieronimus
told the Washington Post.  For decades, the grainy film
clip has fueled study and speculation about the existence
of a large mysterious creature in the (USA's) Pacific
Northwest."
      "'It's time to let this thing go,' he told the paper,
'I've been burdened with this for 36 years, seeing the
film clip on TV numerous times.  Somebody's making lots of
money off this, except for me.  But that's not the issue.
The issue is that it's time to finally let people know the
truth.'"
      "The Post reported Hieronimus made his official
confession in the book The Making of Bigfoot by paranormal
investigator Greg Long.  The author says he spent four
years investigating the 60-second film and the people
behind it.  Long traced the Bigfoot costume to Philip
Morris, a North Carolina gorilla suit specialist, who says
he sold it for $435 to an amateur documentary maker named
Roger Patterson (who died in 1972--J.T.)."
      "The hoax was staged near Bluff Creek in northern
California, according to Hieronimus."
      "'Patterson was the cameraman,' Long told the Post,
'They made a gentleman's agreement that Bob (Hieronimus)
would get in the suit and walk in front of the camera for
$1,000.'"
      "Hieronimus' story is a bit different.  'I was never
paid a dime for that, no sir,' he said, adding, 'Sure, I
want to make some money.  I feel that after 36 years  I
should get some of it.'"
      However, "the news doesn't change the views of an
open-minded Jane Goodall, a well-known primatologist.
'She's spoken to people whom she respects who say they
have seen one of these hominids,' said Nora Gandelman, an
aide to Goodall.  'And to many other people she respects
who have heard strange calls they thought were made by
Bigfoot.  As a scientist, she has a very open mind about
this and has yet to close the door on this possibility.'"
      "An associate of the deceased filmmaker (Patterson)
is challenging the veracity of Hieronimus' story.  The
Post says it was contacted by Tom Malone, a Minneapolis
(Minnesota) lawyer, working on behalf of Bob Gimlin, an
associate of Patterson's."
      "'I'm authorized to tell you that nobody wore a
gorilla suit or monkey suit, and that Mr. Gimlin's
position is that it's absolutely false and untrue,' Malone
told the paper."  (See WorldNet Daily for March 10, 2004,
"Man admits: 'I was Bigfoot.'  Many thanks to Steve Wilson
Sr. for this news story.)



NEW HUBBLE PHOTOS REACH
FAR INTO DEEP SPACE

      "Hubble Space Telescope astronomers unveiled the deepest-
ever snapshot of the universe Tuesday," March 9, 2004, "a view
of stars and galaxies active
about 700 million years after the Big Bang."
      "Astronomers say the image reveals more of the so-
called cosmological dark ages from the first billion years
after the Big Bang about 13.7 billion years ago.  That
early era ended with the birth of the first stars and
galaxies."
      "The snapshot image is equivalent to a 1-million-
second-long photographic exposure.  The picture shows
light that existed more than 2 billion years earlier in
the universe's formation than what was shown in Hubble's
landmark Deep Field image released eight years ago (1996).
That image of the vast cosmos became an astronomical icon,
adorning textbook covers, museums and dorm room walls."
      "'We believe we have gotten the deepest picture of
the universe, one that opens new lands of discovery,'
institute astronomer Massimo Stiavelli says."
      "Astronomers report finding oddly shaped galaxies
pulling at each other through gravity, hinting at the
dimly understood formations.  They have used telescopes
over the past decade to steadily gain insight into the era
of these early galaxies.  Advances in Hubble and ground
telescopes powered this drive, aimed at understanding the
earliest stars and galaxies and our own galaxy's birth."
      "Last week, European Southern Observatory scientists
claimed to have detected the farthest known galaxy, about
13.2 billion light-years away (one light-year equals about
5.9 trillion miles--J.T.)."
      "'This Ultra-Deep Field image represents the state of
the art in looking at the early universe,' says
astrophysicist Abraham Loeb of the Harvard-Smithsonian
Center for Astrophysics."
      "In January (2004), NASA chief Sean O'Keefe rejected
a Hubble repair mission for 2006.  Astronomers expect the
telescope to fail by 2007 without the repairs.  The space
agency plans a $300 million space tug to bring Hubble
safely out of orbit."
      "At the unveiling of the Hubble image, Sen. Barbara
Mikulski (Democrat from Maryland--J.T.) repeated calls to
save the telescope."
      "A successor to the telescope--the James Webb Space
Telescope--is scheduled for launch in 2011."  (See USA
Today for March 10, 2004, "Hubble peers farther back than
ever," page 9D.)




Well, that's it for this week.  Join us next time for
more UFO, Fortean and paranormal news from around the
planet Earth--and occasionally, Mars--brought to you by
"the paper that goes home--UFO Roundup."  See you in seven
days.

UFO ROUNDUP: Copyright 2004 by Masinaigan Productions, all
rights reserved.  Readers may post news items from UFO
Roundup on their Web sites and in news groups provided
that they credit the newsletter and its editor by name and
list the date of issue in which the item first appeared.

E-Mail Reports to: Joseph Trainor <Masinaigan.nul>
or use the Sighting Report Form at:

http://www.ufoinfo.com/forms/form_sighting.htm

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Website comments: John Hayes <webmaster.nul>

UFOINFO: http://www.ufoinfo.com

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   Mar > Mar 17

                Re: UFO Spies Vanish Into Black Hole - Kaeser

From: Steven Kaeser <steve.nul>
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 11:28:58 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 03:15:09 -0500
Subject: Re: UFO Spies Vanish Into Black Hole - Kaeser


>From: Wendy Connors <fadeddiscs.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 06:58:25 -0700
>Subject: Re: UFO Spies Vanish Into Black Hole

<snip>

>I have to agree with Jerry Clark. Ufology is far from dead or
>even passe. Roberts, as usual, must be taking one of his
>trips... and I'm not talking Club Med.

>Let's see. During this lull in major activity, the following is
>taking place while Roberts flits around like the tooth fairy:

>1. Richard Hall is producing a major analysis of the 1966-67
>Wave.

>2. Jerry Clark is producing a major work on pre-1947 material...
>which hasn't been tapped before.

>3. Carl Fiendt is producing major work on underwater UFOs...
>neglected for decades, I might add.

>4. Vincente-Juan Olmos is cataloguing the photographic
>evidence... much needed and has been for decades.

>5. Jan Aldrich is compiling radar/UFO material from new
>sources.

>6. Loren Gross has completed his 30 year trek of UFO history in
>his wonderful and very important booklet series from the Ghost
>Rockets to 1959.

>7. Frank Warren is hard at work digging up every scrap
>detailing the Maury Island incident.

>8. Francis Ridge is ensuring that the NICAP material is on-line
>for the benefit of all... and that's a huge job, but a great
>one.

>9. Dominic Weinstein is hard at work updating his Pilot/Radar
>databases.

>10. Larry Hatch is still hard at work making the UFO database
>something everyone can be proud.

>11. Ann Druffel just gave us a major insight into Dr. James E.
>McDonald.

>Well, the list of projects continuing in Ufology is enormous and
>world-wide. Ufology is far from dead. It's losing many of it's
>fanatics, dingbats, do-do's, conspiracy nuts, etc., which is a
>good thing, but they'll pop up in force when the next major wave
>or event takes place.

>What Ufology needs to lose is the Andy Roberts, who haven't a
>clue as to what the hell they are talking about.

Wendy,

For all of the projects you've mentioned, who is the target
audiance and where will that information eventually end up?
While I would not agree with Andy completely, he makes a point.
I don't think the field is "dead", but how the field is defined
has been vastly changed by the Internet and the media. How
ufology is viewed by the general public (not the subset of those
that are involved in research) is far different than it was
during the last half of of the 20th Century, and even during
that time period the public's view evolved. Richard Hall's UFO
Evidence II is a tremendous collection of information, updating
one of the classic NICAP publications, but it hasn't really made
any difference among those who aren't already involved in the
field. Libraries didn't race out to purchase it, and I would
suspect that sales have levelled off at this point.

IMO, ufology is far from a scientific pursuit at this point, and
while there are those within the field doing good work, it
largely goes unnoticed by all but the hard-core among us.

I would also suggest that we are not seeing any reduction in the
number of "fanatics, dingbats, do-do's, conspiracy nuts, etc."
on the Internet and at sponsored symposiums. It pains me to see
some of the good researchers in the field jumping at the
opportunity to appear on the same venue as those that define the
"fringe" in ufology, but they seem to be addicted to the
limelight and don't really understand that they become defined
in part by those they appear with.

The loss of UFO Magazine UK as a resource may have been
inevitable due to loss of subscriptions and rising costs. UFO
publications in the US also have problems, IMO, and unless there
is an event that sparks the interest of the general public, then
I suspect the number of (what I would define as scientifically
oriented) UFO researchers will dwindle over time. Should that
occur, the field will fragment further and who can guess as to
what it will look like in 15 or 20 years.

Just a few thoughts.


Steve








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   Mar > Mar 17

                        Re: JPL's Mars UFO - Anderson

From: Paul Anderson <paulanderson.nul>
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 08:55:44 -0800
Fwd Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 03:46:45 -0500
Subject: Re: JPL's Mars UFO - Anderson


>From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul>
>Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 00:31:14 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
>Fwd Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 09:12:40 -0500
>Subject: Re: JPL's Mars UFO - Balaskas

>There are three other similar pictures taken with the Navigation
>Camera on the Martian day Sol 067 that do not show any streaks
>at all (see URL below)! From the times given for the first three
>pictures, the exposure times for these three were much shorter
>than the similar looking fourth picture with the streaks that
>Paul Anderson says was a 5 minutes time exposure.

>http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/spirit_n067.html

>>That seems the most reasonable explanation to me. There are too
>>many streaks for all of them to be satellites.

>Where are the "cosmic ray" streaks in the first three pictures?

>>With a long exposure, occasionally a cosmic ray will hit at a
>>low grazing angle, creating a streak rather than a dot -- and
>>there are a lot of dots on that image that probably are cosmic
>>ray hits, too.

>There are just too many long streaks to be easily explained as
>cosmic rays with low grazing angles hitting the detector. Also,
>one would expect that the metal(?) camera casing around the
>detector would shield it from all such cosmic rays with low
>grazing angles allowing mostly cosmic rays entering from the
>front lense that would form the many bright point-like images.

>As for the other pictures taken by Spirit during daylight hours,
>what is that large object on the far rim of Bonneville crater
>that is reflecting sunlight as if it was made of polished metal?

>This artificial looking object with a shape like the letter V
>(or two giant white rabbit ears!) appears in both pictures below
>which were taken a day apart and at different local times and
>Sun angles. Are there any plans to check it out from up close?

>http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/2/n/066/2N132225906EFF1700P1943L0M1.
JPG

>http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/2/n/067/2N132319976EFF1800P1816L0M1.
JPG

>Does anyone know approximately where the Soviet Mars 2 and 3
>landers came down on the Red Planet in 1971 (as I recall, Mars 3
>stopped working after just 20 seconds), half a decade before the
>two much more successful U.S. Viking landers?



Hi Nick and list,

Not sure which exposure times you are referring to?; the time
listed for each image on that page for Sol 67 is the time it was
taken during the day or night, in sequence, not the exposure
time (or did you find the exposure times elsewhere?). There is
also a JPL press images page explaining the time exposure photos
with the stars and streaks (bottom photo on page):

http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/press/spirit/20040311a.html

It mentions the five minute exposure used, at least for that
particular image. Not sure about the other four raw images you
referred to though.

Please note, to avoid confusion, these streaks are not the same
as the other unexplained horizontal streak also shown on that
page (and discussed here and elsewhere previously). See caption
"It's a Bird, It's a Plane, It's a... Spacecraft?".

The object on the rim of Bonneville crater is the lander's
discarded heat shield, which JPL had confirmed (it can also be
seen in other orbiter photos taken of the landing site). Some of
the other JPL press releases mention it. Oh well.  :-)


Paul








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   Mar > Mar 17

               Re: Tracing the Flow of the Gulf Breeze Money -

From: Jerome Clark <jkclark.nul>
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 11:16:37 -0600
Fwd Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 03:48:08 -0500
Subject: Re: Tracing the Flow of the Gulf Breeze Money -


>From: Jerry Black <gulfbreezeinfo.nul>
>To: UFO Updates <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 20:09:27 -0800 (PST)
>Subject: Re: Tracing the Flow of the Gulf Breeze Money

>Please explain this to me, Mr. Friedman, how is it that three of
>Mr. Bruce Maccabee's friends, Mr. Richard Hall, Mr. Jerome Clark
>and Mr. Ray Fowler, do not support Mr. Bruce Maccabee's work in
>the Gulf Breeze sightings. In another words, none of these
>gentlemen believes Mr. Maccabee's conclusions in the Gulf Breeze
>sightings.

Please keep my name out of this. Yes, every instinct tells me
that the Gulf Breeze photos are hoaxed, but since I lack
technical training (and, for that matter, on-the-ground
investigative experience) in the matter, I have nothing useful
to say, con or pro, about Bruce Maccabee's work with the GB
pictures. I do, however, like and respect Bruce, whom I have
known since the 1970s, and have full confidence in his
integrity.  At the very worst he may simply be wrong (as I
suspect but can't prove), as everyone of us is about something
or other from time to time. That makes him neither a bad
investigator nor a bad human being.

At the very least, in an area as clouded as UFO research, there
ought to be room both to disagree with colleagues and to respect
-- even (or maybe especially) if they annoy or exasperate us --
 their sincerity and right to hold contrary opinions.

Otherwise, as I'm afraid we're seeing here (with the jaw-
dropping talk of polygraph tests, et al.), we're off on
something that looks less like a research project than a witch
hunt.


Jerry Clark








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   Mar > Mar 17

                Re: UFO Spies Vanish Into Black Hole - Warren

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 10:04:53 -0800
Fwd Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 03:50:05 -0500
Subject: Re: UFO Spies Vanish Into Black Hole - Warren


>From: Terry W. Colvin <fortean1.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>,
>Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 17:51:39 -0700
>Subject: UFO Spies Vanish Into Black Hole

>Source: The Observer - London

>http://observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,6903,1168923,00.html >

>March 14, 2004

>UFO Spies Vanish Into Black Hole

>Now you see them...

>Mark Townsend
>Sunday March 14, 2004
>The Observer

>At its peak, tens of thousands would await the latest lurid
>tales of alien autopsies and flying saucers spying on sleepy
>market towns.

>Yet the publication that took UFOs from the sci-fi hinterland to
>the mainstream has now enjoyed its final print run. After almost
>25 years, UFO Magazine was quietly shut down last week.
>Suggestions of paranormal interference or alien involvement have
>been ruled out. The reason is more down-to-earth: not enough
>people care these days.

>Sources said its closure had been inevitable since the death of
>editor and world UFO expert Graham Birdsall last September.
>Birdsall along with younger brother Mark founded the Leeds-based
>magazine in 1981. Soon it became the world's top UFO
>publication, selling up to 35,000 copies at its height.
>Subscribers still talk about the puncture marks on sheep
>carcasses which offered proof that extra-terrestrial visitors
>had arrived to suck the juices of livestock.

>Andy Roberts, author of UFO books and former magazine
>contributor, said the public's fascination with mysterious
>flying objects had faded. 'Ufology is really a thing of the last
>century. The end of the X-Files series didn't help, and there
>has been a decline since the televised alien autopsy of the mid-
>1990s. Basically it was a hobby that broke into the
>mainstream... Ultimately there was only a hardcore following,'
>said Roberts.

>The sighting of a strange bright object above his Leeds home in
>1967 fuelled Birdsall's interest in UFOs. It was an obsession
>that would make him a household name among Ufologists and an
>obliga tory presence on television whenever a new sighting was
>reported.

>Birdsall's death followed the loss of another icon of the UFO
>community last summer. Ex-diplomat Gordon Creighton, 92, was
>editor of Flying Saucer Review, the longest-running UFO
>magazine. Founded in 1955, it is still published.

>Sightings are still reported. Last week a group of children in
>Littleborough, Lancashire, claimed they saw a spacecraft moving
>slowly above rooftops for several minutes before it shot off at
>high speed.

Dear Mr. Townsend,

Thank you for your piece, "UFO Spies Vanish Into Black Hole."
It's a tribute to other so-called 'journalists' who write about
subjects they know not. It validates the thinking that many "so-
 called journalists" care more about the "deadline" and filling
a spot then the accuracy of "their facts" they purport.

Your clever witticisms throughout the piece, I'm sure kept those
that our as ignorant of the subject of UFOs as you seem to be,
entertained; for future reference "UFOs are not a product of
science fiction" which were brought into the mainstream, just
the opposite in fact--art reflected life in this instance.

Your choice of individuals to give voice to Ufology (and the
magazine) reminded me of the talk show host who has to fill a
spot at the last minute do to a cancellation, and gets the
"ever-willing, waiting by the phone" out of work celebrity to
come in at a moment's notice.

Odd that you chose not to contact the family, and hear the
anguish that they experienced from running a publication in
absence of the main family member of a "family run magazine."

Filling your piece with "blood sucking aliens," the "X-Files"
and the "Alien Autopsy" seems to be SOP with those who are
either to lazy, or frankly just don't care when broaching a
subject they are unfamiliar with; opposed to doing a little
research, and getting away from comedy and sarcasm.

Your journalistic prowess did announce one fact correctly--the
magazine has come to its demise, however; if you think people
don't care about Unidentified Flying Objects in their airspace
then I believe you have tipped one to many a pint. If you choose
to broach the subject of UFOs again, it would behoove to
research your own government's involvement in regards to the
investigation of the UFO phenomenon. Moreover, if you are in
doubt of the public's interest in Ufology, check the ratings for
the recent documentaries done on "Roswell" and the "Rendelsham
Forest Incidents"; follow that by studying the "Roper" and
Gallup polls, and finally check the internet for its most
popular subjects.


Regards,

Frank Warren








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   Mar > Mar 17

                        Re: JPL's Mars UFO - Balaskas

From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul>
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 14:00:09 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
Fwd Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 11:08:38 -0500
Subject: Re: JPL's Mars UFO - Balaskas


>From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 00:31:14 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
>Subject: Re: JPL's Mars UFO

<snip>

>As for the other pictures taken by Spirit during daylight hours,
>what is that large object on the far rim of Bonneville crater
>that is reflecting sunlight as if it was made of polished metal?

>This artificial looking object with a shape like the letter V
>(or two giant white rabbit ears!) appears in both pictures below
>which were taken a day apart and at different local times and
>Sun angles. Are there any plans to check it out from up close?

>http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/2/n/066/2N132225906EFF1700P1943L0M1.
JPG

>http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/2/n/067/2N132319976EFF1800P1816L0M1.
JPG

<snip>

Looks like we have an explanation as to what this object is.

According to NASA, this highly reflective artificial looking
object on the far rim of Bonneville crater, seen also in the
color panoramic picture released yesterday, is Spirit's heat
shield.

http://spaceflightnow.com/mars/mera/040315pan.html

The bright object moving in the Martian sky at night has not yet
been positively identified. As for the strange meteor-like
streaks in one of the four pictures taken by Spirit, we still
have not been given a satisfactory explanation.


Nick Balaskas








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   Mar > Mar 17

                        Re: JPL's Mars UFO - Stanford

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 16:41:02 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 11:10:28 -0500
Subject: Re: JPL's Mars UFO - Stanford


>From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 00:31:14 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
>Subject: Re: JPL's Mars UFO

>>From: Lan Fleming <lfleming5.nul>
>>To: UFO Updates <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 14:57:33 -0600
>>Subject: Re: JPL's Mars UFO - Ledger
>
>>>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 11:41:16 -0400
>>>Subject: Re: JPL's Mars UFO - Ledger

>>>>From: Lan Fleming <lfleming5.nul>
>>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>>Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 12:09:11 -0600
>>>>Subject: Re: JPL's Mars UFO

><snip>

>>>>That's not the only one. It looks like this Navcam image shows "UFOs"
>>>>going every which ways:

>>>>http://tinyurl.com/2va5q

><snip>

>>>I may be wrong but it's my uderstanding that The Soviets never
>>>got a satellite to Mars. There is JPL's? Explorer that
>>>disappeared back in the mid 90s. How about the Beagle II? Is
>>>there any possibility that it just dropped ino the Mars' gravity
>>>well and got captured due to a misfiring of it's propellants?

>>I just read a post from Paul Anderson on the Cydonia List. He
>>said that the image I referred to was a 5-minute time exposure
>>and that JPL thinks the streaks were created by cosmic rays
>>hitting the camera's CCD array.

>There are three other similar pictures taken with the Navigation
>Camera on the Martian day Sol 067 that do not show any streaks
>at all (see URL below)! From the times given for the first three
>pictures, the exposure times for these three were much shorter
>than the similar looking fourth picture with the streaks that
>Paul Anderson says was a 5 minutes time exposure.

>http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/spirit_n067.html

>>That seems the most reasonable explanation to me. There are too
>>many streaks for all of them to be satellites.

>Where are the "cosmic ray" streaks in the first three pictures?

>>With a long exposure, occasionally a cosmic ray will hit at a
>>low grazing angle, creating a streak rather than a dot -- and
>>there are a lot of dots on that image that probably are cosmic
>>ray hits, too.

>There are just too many long streaks to be easily explained as
>cosmic rays with low grazing angles hitting the detector. Also,
>one would expect that the metal(?) camera casing around the
>detector would shield it from all such cosmic rays with low
>grazing angles allowing mostly cosmic rays entering from the
>front lense that would form the many bright point-like images.

>As for the other pictures taken by Spirit during daylight hours,
>what is that large object on the far rim of Bonneville crater
>that is reflecting sunlight as if it was made of polished metal?

>This artificial looking object with a shape like the letter V
>(or two giant white rabbit ears!) appears in both pictures below
>which were taken a day apart and at different local times and
>Sun angles. Are there any plans to check it out from up close?

>http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/2/n/066/2N132225906EFF1700P1943L0M1.
JPG

>http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/2/n/067/2N132319976EFF1800P1816L0M1.
JPG

Thanks for the links, Nick, but there appears to be no reason
for JPL to send the rover over there to check that out. Why?
That appears to be clearly and simply a specular reflection off
one flat surface of a broken rock. Note the sun's position as
evidenced by shadows cast by rocks. Note that the "rabbit ears"
to which you refer are very sharply clipped across the tops, as
is clear in that second photo, evidencing flat breaks of rock,
nothing more.

As evidence of a similar rock reflection, look at the second
image (taken from a slightly different angle) to which you
linked us:

http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/2/n/067/2N132319976EFF1800P1816L0M1.J
PG

Notice that the rock with a flat surface on the near edge of the
crater and slightly to the near left of the item that concerns
you likewise shows a reflection almost as bright. In fact, it
might well be as bright if its reflecting surface were turned at
a slightly larger angle relative to the camera, as is the one
under discussion on the distant crater edge. Notice the flat
breakage across the top on that rock, too. In recent geologic
times on Mars, water has evidently not been abundant, thus
things broken up by impacts or even volcanic explosions (if any
have occurred during such period) in that time span could hardly
be expected to be very rounded.

Keep in mind that many of the rocks on Mars are clearly of
magmatic origin. Some such rocks are likely to be simply glass
(obsidian), because they cooled too fast to crystallize (as
happens in basalt) and such materials might easily form on Mars,
where cooling (once the magma reaches the surface) could be even
faster because of Mars' distance from the sun and due to other
factors, as well. Obsidian is, of course, glass, so that light
striking such surfaces at an oblique angle can be fully as
bright as a reflection off the most highly polished metal.

Then too, from study of Martian meteorites such as, for example,
Shergottites and Nakhlites, we know that often the plagioclase
in such magmatic Mars rocks is (due to force of cosmic impact)
transformed into a diaplectic glass called maskylenite. In such
rocks that fall back to the Martian surface instead of being
launched into space by force of the impact, both the resulting
maskylenite as well as the remaining crystalline and even
cryptocrystalline surfaces could easily provide the kind of
bright reflections we see in those photos.

Even fresh fracture surfaces of basaltic rocks (that are not
shock altered), and also those of some sedimentary rocks, can
likewise produce surprisingly brilliant reflections when light
hits them at an opportune angle.

Sorry, Nick, but there appears to be nothing to suggest that
anything mysterious is responsible for that reflection, and the
shape of the darker part of the object indicates a very jagged,
broken rock and nothing more, as also does the outline of the
part that is brightly reflecting sunlight. Of course, it would
be intriguing if the evidence pointed in a less prosaic
direction, but it simply does not seem to do so.


Ray Stanford








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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   Mar > Mar 17

                    Clumps In Saturn's Rings Giant UFOs?

From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul>
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 18:08:25 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
Fwd Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 11:11:16 -0500
Subject: Clumps In Saturn's Rings Giant UFOs?



Hi Everyone!

Back in 1987, Dr. Norman Bergrun presented visual evidence in
his book 'Ringmakers of Saturn' of what he claimed were giant
UFOs in the rings of Saturn. These large clumps in Saturn's
rings were first spotted back in 1980 in pictures taken by
NASA's Voyagers 1 spacecraft as it flew past Saturn on its way
to the outer regions of our solar system. Since Voyager 2 did
not find these same clumps which Voyager 1 found to be orbiting
Saturn nine months earlier, it was assumed that these clumps
were some unexplained short lived natural phenomenon - or
possibly even giant UFOs that came and went as they pleased. Dr.
Bergrun spoke about these giant UFOs as recently as last month
at the International UFO Congress in Laughlin, Nevada.

With the international Cassini-Huygens spacecraft rapidly
closing in on Saturn, we will soon be able to judge for
ourselves after we examine the closest and highest resolution
pictures ever taken of the rings if these clumps are indeed
giant UFOs as Dr. Bergrun and a few others suspect that they
are.






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   Mar > Mar 17

                         Re: JPL's Mars UFO - Ledger

From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 19:31:24 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 11:12:59 -0500
Subject: Re: JPL's Mars UFO - Ledger


>From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 08:13:52 -0600
>Subject: Re: JPL's Mars UFO

>>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 18:25:20 -0400
>>Subject: Re: JPL's Mars UFO

>>Note the interesting use of "UFO" in this JPL URL re an anomally
>>in the Martian sky taken by Rover's cameras.

>>http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/press/spirit/20040311a/Earth_Sol63A_UFO
-A067R1.jpg

>>I wonder, would this be a time lapse of Earth?

>...Wouldn't the smear be more regular? The object photographed
>seems to pulse... Moreover, there seems to be a star or small
>moon photographed to the left of the object about two and a half
>cm to the right from the left edge of the photo... no smear...

>...Jeez, Don -- wouldn't it be -wonderful- to be able to accept
>an official explanation from our government or its institutions
>and agencies regarding these matters?


Hi Al,

Sorry missed this one. And yes it would. But the jury is still
out. Too many straight lines. Probably just pelicans.


Don









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   Mar > Mar 17

                         Re: JPL's Mars UFO - Ledger

From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 19:55:44 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 11:59:18 -0500
Subject: Re: JPL's Mars UFO - Ledger


>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 12:38:02 -0500
>Subject: Re: JPL's Mars UFO

>>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 11:41:16 -0400
>>Subject: Re: JPL's Mars UFO

<snip>

>>I may be wrong but it's my uderstanding that The Soviets never
>>got a satellite to Mars.

>Russian probes orbiting Mars are the following: Mars 2, Mars 3,
>Mars 5, and Phobos 2. Their orbital situations are not such as
>would account for the single, so called, "UFO" streak earlier
>discussed on-List.


Thanks for the heads up, Ray.


Don











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   Mar > Mar 17

                              Who's Out There?

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 17:29:12 -0800
Fwd Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 12:04:15 -0500
Subject: Who's Out There?


Source: Vancouver Courier - British Columbia

http://www.staging.canada.com/vancouver/story.html?id=260e4328-c747-4a80-b61e-b2
504318b11f

March 16, 2004


Who's out there?
Naoibh O'Connor


Just past 6 p.m. on Aug. 11, last year, Diana Luca and her
mother, who was visiting from Romania, were chatting at the
kitchen table in Luca's New Westminster home. It was a beautiful
windless evening, the clear blue sky visible from their seats in
front of a large south-facing window.

Out of the corner of her eye, Luca spotted a black object behind
the trees in the back alley. "Look, it's a balloon," she told
her mother. But when the two stepped onto the patio, they saw
what they now insist is a UFO. "It still freaks me out. I could
see it flying behind the trees and on top of the shorter trees,"
says the 34-year-old, recalling the incident from the living
room of her new house.

Luca claims the object - flat and shaped like a Frisbee -
flipped to its underside, which was as red and shiny as a Coke
can.

Scared, she called her common-law husband, Mark Murphy, who was
inside. By the time he reached the porch, the object looked
cigar shaped and was an estimated three kilometres away. Murphy
rushed inside to retrieve a camcorder purchased two days
earlier, documenting the rest of the sighting on tape, which he
keeps under lock and key. The 35-year-old property manager has
since copied the tape onto a DVD that he plays over and over.

From the right side of the screen, a small, shiny object moves
towards the centre, then heads rapidly towards the camera. As it
gets closer, it becomes a round, black form that vibrates
slightly, at one point turning on its side, giving it the cigar
shape.

Murphy loses sight of it several times and is forced to refocus
to recapture the object on film. It zips across the screen so
quickly on another occasion that it can only be seen later, when
Murphy watches the tape in slow motion.

"It's something I'll never forget for the rest of my life - I
was in shock. The clarity of this is just incredible," he says.
"I heard about UFOs but had written [them] off in my head. I'm a
skeptical kind of person who has to touch it to believe it, but
now I'm not too certain."

It sounds farfetched, but he's got a lot of company locally.

According to the 2003 Canadian UFO Survey, reported by Chris
Rutkowski of UFOlogy Research of Manitoba, more than 673
sightings of UFOs - defined literally as flying objects that
can't be identified - were documented across the country last
year, including 41 in Vancouver, making it the city with the
highest number of reports. Sources of the reports include the
National UFO Reporting Center in the U.S., UFO*BC, the Houston
B.C. Centre for UFO Research and the Meteor and Impacts Advisory
Committee to the Canadian Space Agency.

Only 17 per cent of the 673 sightings remain unexplained - the
rest were simply fireballs, meteors or other natural phenomena.

Skeptics may brush off UFO sightings as the side effect of too
much B.C. bud, but some members of an organization called UFO*BC
believe the earth has been visited by alien ships.

Graham Conway, the group's vice president, claims to have
spotted 30 himself, and insists many more individuals are
willing to admit sightings these days. "The social acceptance
has changed. People are prepared to come forward and not feel
they'll be written off as kooks."

In 1947, Kenneth Arnold, a pilot involved in a search for a
downed aircraft near Mount Rainier, reported seeing nine objects
flying at an estimated 1,200 miles an hour across the mountains.
They were crescent-shaped, so he described them as saucers
skipping across the water - hence the term "flying saucers." For
Graham Conway, it sparked an interest in UFOs that's never
diminished. At the time, he was living in Sheffield, England and
interested in enigmas. "Fifty-seven years later, I'm nowhere
nearer a solution than the day I started," he says from the
living room of his middle-class home in Delta.

Aside from what many would consider a quirky obsession with
UFOs, the 76-year-old has led a relatively normal life, working
in the hospitality industry and teaching food studies and
consumer education in Ontario and B.C. After retiring in 1986,
he worked for the Salvation Army for eight years before landing
a job with the Delta School Board as a noontime supervisor at a
secondary school.

For a few years, he was associated with an American group called
the Mutual UFO Network, which bills itself as the world's
largest civilian UFO research organization, but found B.C.
reports seemed to drop into a black hole, never to be heard of
again. Frustrated, Conway and a small group of like-minded
friends formed UFO*BC in 1995, and were later joined by Martin
Jasek, a 40-year-old engineer for a utilities company.

The non-profit society operates a 24-hour hotline for reporting
sightings, a web site and a quarterly newsletter. Members also
host lectures on subjects ranging from alien abductions to
cattle mutilations and crop circles. Each year, they investigate
a few UFO reports in the Lower Mainland or Interior.

Jasek, the group's mild-mannered treasurer, developed an
interest in the subject while living in Whitehorse, where he
said reports of unidentified flying objects were plentiful.
Unlike Conway, he's only spotted one UFO - a term he uses
literally in this case, although he suspects that some UFOs are
"intelligently controlled craft" that are not man-made.

Jasek's brief sighting occurred in 1998, while driving across
Manitoba during daylight hours. He glanced over to a slight hill
on his left where a white ball, three metres in diameter and
roughly 200 metres away, appeared. Seconds later, it was
obscured by trees as the vehicle travelled along the highway. By
the time the trees cleared, it had disappeared. To this day,
Jasek, a soft-spoken, serious man, isn't sure what he saw.

Conway, however, has no reservations about his sightings.

With little prompting, he rattles off several anecdotes. In one
case, he was heading up Canada Way towards Edmonds Street when
traffic hit a standstill. Looking up, he spotted a red, disk-
shaped object, possibly six feet in diameter. None of the
passengers in the cars beside him appeared to see it. When
traffic moved forward slightly, the object became more mirror-
like, then headed in a northwesterly direction. Total viewing
time: five minutes.

Another time, Conway was moonlighting as a security officer at a
large parking lot on Annacis Island when he observed a square
aluminum-like craft hovering above a plant emitting steam that
was being circled by seagulls and eagles. Viewing conditions
were excellent, according to Conway, who watched it head
northeast towards the Fraser River for about 10 minutes.

Lack of physical proof does nothing to shake his confidence. In
fact, both men looked puzzled when asked if others see them as
eccentric or odd. "Most people do believe [in UFOs]," insists
Jasek. "You'd be surprised how many people you know have seen
something totally unexplainable, but they don't divulge it
without being prompted."

Conway speculates special psychic gifts passed down through
families make people like him more susceptible to seeing UFOs.
"We have thousands and thousands of reports. Every one can't be
a case of misidentification."

The National UFO Reporting Centre out of Seattle, WA.,
registered two notable UFO sightings in Vancouver last year.
One, on Feb. 12, just past 9 p.m., was from a self-described
"harsh critic of aliens and all that stuff," who lives in
downtown Vancouver on the 16th floor of a high-rise. The witness
was about to watch The Simpsons and spotted an object flying
over some buildings, initially brushing it off as light from a
construction crane. But that turned out not to be the case - nor
was the high-rise on a flight path and the lights weren't
blinking, as on an aircraft. Instead, they were "constantly
beaming a hazy sort of weird whitish/yellowish light."

"At first I didn't see the three lights on the triangular craft
until it very, very slowly, and I stress silently, without the
smallest sound, just hovered towards my building. I mean
anything made by man that flies only 500 meters away has to make
a sound."

After failing to find a camera in the apartment, the witness,
whose gender isn't apparent from the write-up, ran down to the
street and saw the "craft" travel vertically into the sky,
remain stationary for a while, then leave. "Some other people
saw this downstairs and they didn't care. They said it's no big
deal, probably some governmental plane. But what would a
governmental plane be doing in downtown Vancouver?"

At 3 a.m. Oct. 31, another person reported seeing red, orange,
green, blue, yellow and white lights rotating under and around
the edges of an object. The lights weren't bright. It was eerily
silent and the object was moving in "more of a hover, almost a
slight wobble from too low a speed," notes the entry. "It had to
be enormous in size. I guesstimate I was 1-2 kilometres from it,
then it passed behind a building." According to the witness, it
would have been visible to anyone outside at 3 a.m., near
English Bay or the Stanley Park area. Its altitude was very low,
a few hundred feet over the water at English Bay.

Don't bother trying to convince Lee Moller of the existence of
alien space crafts, however. To the computer programmer, a
founding member of the B.C. Society for Skeptical Enquiry, UFOs
are exactly that - unidentified flying objects that likely have
a rational explanation.

Moller argues the sheer distance between stars makes the
prospect of space travel highly unlikely. While the earth is one
"astronomical unit" or 98 million miles away from the sun, the
next nearest star is 300,000 astronomical units away from the
sun-that's four-and-a-half light years. "I'd actually be quite
shocked if there wasn't extraterrestrial life out there, but you
have to understand how big the universe actually is.
[Travelling] about between the stars is not a cheap thing to
do."

"If we ever talk to [extraterrestrial life], it's almost
certainly going to be through radio waves, not through personal
visits-at least in the short term."

Some people confuse conventional aircraft, landing lights,
satellites or planets with UFOs, suggests the 47-year-old
skeptic, because the average person is unfamiliar with natural
phenomena such as sun dogs - reflections of the sun that look
like big glowing balls - meteors or Venus, for instance.

Thanks to a temperate climate in B.C., more people also go out
walking, and are thus more likely to spot objects they can't
identify in the sky, Moller adds.

Moller cites several cases in which experts have exposed so-
called proof of UFOs. Philip Klass, known as the top UFO
debunker in the United States, has come up with plausible
explanations for a number of UFO sightings, including uncovering
the truth behind a striking photo taken by a Florida man. It
turned out to be a double exposure of an outdoor light with a
paper shade. "All I can really say is that if aliens did really
take the time and effort to travel the light years that's
required to actually come to the earth, somehow I don't think
they'd be communicating with us by zipping around the night sky
or drawing big patterns in crops," said Moller.

"Having said all that, I would love for it to be true. Nothing
would be more cool or interesting than the day humanity talks,
in any sense, to something off the planet - it's going to be one
of the greatest days in history."

Barry Beyerstein, a UFO skeptic and psychology professor at
Simon Fraser University who's been involved in brain research,
pointed out quasars and pulsars were once thought to be signs of
extraterrestrial life by noted scientists.

In 1970, he added, English physicist David Simpson conducted a
controlled hoax to expose UFOlogists' readiness to
unquestioningly accept sightings. Late one evening, he set up a
12-volt high-intensity purple spotlight directed towards a hill
three-quarters of a mile away in the town of Warminster,
England, where a group of 30 sky-watchers stood. It was switched
on and off at intervals. One of Simpson's colleagues operating a
fake magnetic field sensor was placed amongst the sky watchers.
At one point, he sounded its alarm buzzer, which signals the
presence of a strong magnetic field - supposedly a sign of UFOs.

Meanwhile, another colleague pretended to take a picture of the
light from a camera on a tripod. Part of the film had already
been exposed, capturing two images, according to an account of
the experiment written by Simpson. They depicted a night view of
street lamps with a bogus UFO superimposed. The photographer
took two real photos so the developed film would show four
negatives -- two with UFOs and two without. "They were designed
to present substantial inconsistencies that would allow any
moderately critical investigator to cast strong suspicion on
their authenticity," Simpson wrote.

For more than two years, the hoax was kept secret while
UFOologists debated the supposed sighting.

Correspondence collected by Simpson during that time indicates
many concluded it wasn't a fake.

"...It is important to be aware of the general calibre of UFO
enthusiasts, even if they do not appear to have been directly
involved in the case. Their irrational thinking is infectious
and has frequently provided the media with entertaining
headlines," he wrote. "As a result, certain members of the
general public, on seeing something in the sky that is strange
to them, describe not what they see but what they think they
ought to have seen."

Although both Conway and Jasek argue it's equally important to
be skeptical of the skeptics, whose agenda is to disprove
everything, Beyerstein points out "the burden of proof is always
on the claimant."

Mark Murphy and Diana Luca insist they have proof of a UFO in
their tape, but Moller, for one, isn't convinced, after watching
a version of it posted on the web site www.rense.com.

While Moller doesn't doubt the couple's sincerity, he said he's
seen a lot of UFO photos and movies that look similar. He argues
that a small, shiny object the size of a Frisbee or pie plate
launched into the air could look exactly like what's captured on
film, pointing out the object only appears to stay in the air
for about three seconds. The shininess suggests it caught the
light of the setting sun and the cigar shape simply comes from a
change in the angle from which it's viewed.

Moller suspects the object disappears at the one third mark of
the tape simply because it fell from the sky, perhaps into a
neighbour's yard or field.

"In my view, this is an unremarkable movie," he wrote in an e-
mail. "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. I
find 'pie plate' more plausible than 'extraterrestrial,'
although I am happy to let the whole thing remain a UFO (or
perhaps TIFO, Tentatively Identified...), but not one I am going
to lose sleep over."

Murphy, who maintains he didn't make the tape to make money
although he is in "talks" with a producer from California, is
unmoved by critics, stressing the extreme rate of speed the
object travelled at.

"You can hear it in my voice how shocked I am. It's not a plane,
it's not a balloon, it's not a bird - that's no transportation
for humans. [Debunkers] can call me up - I'll debate any
skeptic," he said. "It could be the military, it could be
aliens-who knows? It was one of those things where the universe
opened up and said look what's out there."

Murphy insists he'd love to get to the bottom of the mystery and
wonders whether anyone else in his neighbourhood saw something
similar.

Luca said she never believed in extraterrestrial life until the
August experience. "Now, at this point, after I've seen it I
have this feeling - it's not a belief - that it's from another
world, something which we don't know, something we cannot
explain with our intelligence or something we can't perceive.

"It happened. We caught it on tape - that's it."










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   Mar > Mar 17

               Re: Tracing the Flow of the Gulf Breeze Money -

From: Robert Gates <RGates8254.nul>
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 20:11:17 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 12:07:28 -0500
Subject: Re: Tracing the Flow of the Gulf Breeze Money -


>From: Jerry Black <gulfbreezeinfo.nul>
>To: UFO Updates <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 20:11:47 -0800 (PST)
>Subject: Re: Tracing the Flow of the Gulf Breeze Money


>Mr. Robert Gates

>Your observation over the last several years, is that Rex
>Salisberry had his own biases and an agenda. Those biases and
>agenda, according to you, are that the Gulf Breeze sighting is a
>hoax.

Jerry,

Please take a deep breath. Before you proceed, you may also want
to read my upcoming post sent yesterday, which may be on updates
today.

As the saying goes I have no dog in the Gulf Breeze hunt.
Regardless of what anybody believes or disbelieves about Gulf
Breeze that fact remains that you make a rather serious
allegation that money exchanged hands in 1988 from Ed Walters to
MUFON to Bruce Maccabee.

From what you have said, apparently you have concluded that
only way a person could conclude that Ed Walters/Gulf Breeze was
real was through some sizeable bundle of cash. In essence your
position is somehow, someway Ed Walters passed some bundle of
cash (you have refined your position a bit when you mentioned
1988 as the year it happened in todays other email) to a UFO
organization who gave it to Bruce Maccabee to conclude that Ed
Walters case was real.

You maintain that the only so called scientific investigator to
the Ed Walters case was Rex which I find interesting. It would
be like saying the only scientific investigator in the Travis
Walton case was James Harder, or the only scientific
investigator in the Roswell Case was Kevin Randle. Yet we all
know that many of the high profile cases have many investigators
which come to totally different and opposite conclusions...
looking at the same evidence, based upon their
opinion/read/interpretation of the evidence.

I recall you first maintained that FUFOR was involved till Dick
Hall demolished that theory on this List and you back-peddled.
Then it changed to MUFON, and today you state in your email to
Bruce Maccabee the phrase 'in my opinion'.

Since you make these allegations its more then reasonable to
expect you to provide us some hard basis for those allegations
such as copies of checks and or audio/video recordings in which
Ed/MUFON/Walt discussing the checks and money flowing back and
forth. We haven't seen any hard evidence yet, just opinions and
people connecting the dots, much like Phil Klass connected the
dots that the Travis Walton case was a hoax. By the way awhile
back the latest theory from the skeptical tank about Travis
Walton goes along the lines of 'Lie detector test aside, we know
he hoaxed it, we just can't prove it, but someday, somehow the
evidence will show up....' Then the other theory goes along the
lines of 'the only lie detector test that counted was the first
one, not the newer one...'

I also notice that Rex/Vickie/others have thus far shown little
interest in publicly going on record and confirming any
allegations to this point. Perhaps they will on this list.

Instead of continuing to make allegations, please present copies
of your evidence, or at least tell us if you have any other
basis for making the claims you do i.e. "Rex said" "Vickie said"
or somebody else said...keeping in mind thats about as reliable
as Katrina's claiming that Vickie said that words were put in
her mouth. Which reminds me. I wasn't at Gulf Breeze when this
allegedly happened but you recently said that Rex Salisberry
claimed that he heard the money story off the lips of Ed Walters
and that was to be believed, yet when Ed Walters said he shot
pictures of a UFO we are not to believe it because he supposedly
hoaxed it. So if you and Rex really and truly believe that
story, are we to conclude that you or him only believe Ed
Walters when he is supposedly telling a story that you like? By
the way do you have audio tape of that exchange? Just a thought.

You maintain its going to take you a couple of months to do so,
which suggests that you don't currently have any and you are
sincerely hoping that something will turn up. When you have the
evidence I and others will be listening, if not we have a 'jewel
encrusted helmet' story.


Cheers,

Robert








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   Mar > Mar 17

                Re: 'The Truth' According To Greer - Connors

From: Wendy Connors <fadeddiscs.nul>
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 19:58:41 -0700
Fwd Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 16:40:55 -0500
Subject: Re: 'The Truth' According To Greer - Connors


>From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>To: - UFO UpDates Subscribers - <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 19:15:00 -0500
>Subject: 'The Truth' According To Greer

<snip>

>THE TRUTH

>(THE POWER ELITES DON'T WANT YOU TO KNOW)

>You are invited to spend 5 days with Dr. Greer at his farm in
>Virginia to hear what he has learned after 14 years of
>investigations

Greeristic. Moniker assigned to the gullible crowds who allow
their pockets to be picked with promises of enlightened truth...

...Truth found when Greer realized he could get $400 a pop from
the weak of intellect for a flashlight saucer snipe hunt...

Now Greer has a farm...just like Howard Menger! Get it? Howard
held the first Interplanetary Space Convention at his farm in
Lebannon, NJ in September, 1958.

Has this man no morals?

Astounding!


Wendy Connors
www.fadeddiscs.com








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   Mar > Mar 17

                         Re: JPL's Mars UFO - Ledger

From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 23:42:48 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 16:45:42 -0500
Subject: Re: JPL's Mars UFO - Ledger


>From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 00:31:14 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
>Subject: Re: JPL's Mars UFO

<snip>

>As for the other pictures taken by Spirit during daylight
>hours, what is that large object on the far rim of Bonneville
>crater that is reflecting sunlight as if it was made of polished
>metal?

>This artificial looking object with a shape like the letter V
>(or two giant white rabbit ears!) appears in both pictures below
>which were taken a day apart and at different local times and
>Sun angles. Are there any plans to check it out from up close?

>http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/2/n/066/2N132225906EFF1700P1943L0M1.
JPG

>http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/2/n/067/2N132319976EFF1800P1816L0M1.
JPG

>Does anyone know approximately where the Soviet Mars 2 and 3
>landers came down on the Red Planet in 1971 (as I recall, Mars 3
>stopped working after just 20 seconds), half a decade before the
>two much more successful U.S. Viking landers?

I'd say a reflection off a flat faced rock, Nick. I note another
reflection in the foreground as well.

Is your last paragraph suggesting that either Mar's 2 and 3
might be a possible reason for the reflections?


Don Ledger









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   Mar > Mar 17

                Re: UFO Spies Vanish Into Black Hole - Ledger

From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 23:59:06 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 16:50:22 -0500
Subject: Re: UFO Spies Vanish Into Black Hole - Ledger


>From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 10:36:41 -0400
>Subject: Re: UFO Spies Vanish Into Black Hole

>>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 09:30:52 -0600
>>Subject: Re: UFO Spies Vanish Into Black Hole

>>>From: Terry W. Colvin <fortean1.nul>
>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>,
>>>Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 17:51:39 -0700
>>>Subject: UFO Spies Vanish Into Black Hole

>>>Source: The Observer - London

>>>http://observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,6903,1168923,00.html >

>>>March 14, 2004

>>>UFO Spies Vanish Into Black Hole

>>>Now you see them...

>>>Mark Townsend
>>>Sunday March 14, 2004
>>>The Observer

>>>Andy Roberts, author of UFO books and former magazine
>>>contributor, said the public's fascination with mysterious
>>>flying objects had faded. 'Ufology is really a thing of the last
>>>century. The end of the X-Files series didn't help, and there
>>>has been a decline since the televised alien autopsy of the mid-
>>>1990s. Basically it was a hobby that broke into the
>>>mainstream... Ultimately there was only a hardcore following,'
>>>said Roberts.

<snip>

>Rumours of the death of ufology have been greatly exaggerated.


Stan, Jerry, Terry,

It's amazing the milage that Andy gets out of nothing. But he
likely had a sympathetic ear at the London Observer. I've not
seen any reduction in the interest level of the general public
when it comes to the UFO phenomenon. Quite the opposite. Wishful
thinking on Andy Roberts' part? But wishing doesn't make it so.

But at least Mark Townsend went to bed that night feeling better
about himself... slept the sleep of the self-righteous. The kind
of sleep only the innocent and the ignorant can enjoy.


Don Ledger









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   Mar > Mar 17

                 Re: 'The Truth' According To Greer - McCoy

From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy.nul>
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 20:56:54 -0800
Fwd Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 16:53:55 -0500
Subject: Re: 'The Truth' According To Greer - McCoy


From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
To: - UFO UpDates Subscribers - <ufoupdates.nul>
Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 4:15 PM
Subject: 'The Truth' According To Greer


<snip>

Hello, all.

I have to tell story. About 30 years ago I sold Aviation Fuel
and other Petrolium-related Products to various Fixed Base
Operators, Agricultural Operators (CropDusters) and other
people, for a Texaco Jobber. Now I hated to go to one AG
operator becase of his Aussie Sheperd "Badger". Now Badger was a
blue-eyed killer, cats, squrriels, FAA Inspectors weren't safe.

When I pulled up, go out, and knocked on the hangar door, I'd
feel Badger's teeth clamped on the heel (Achille's tendon) of my
freshly oiled Cowboy boots. (Ok, this was Eastern Oregon, USA.)
now his owner, Bud Langon, would yell "Badger let GO! NOW!"

Badger would look up with the most pleading look - "Oh Pleazzze,
let me bite him! Pleazze, I want to feel his flesh between my
teeeth, his blood running in my mouth oh,Pleazzeee!!

"Bad Dog Badger!" Bud yelled. Now as most who have ever had
Border Collies of Aussie Sheperds, etc., they are a breed that
don't like doing anything wrong -i ncluding biting salesmen.
Hurt, Badger slunk away.

What does this story have have to do with the press release of
Dr. Greer? I Thought about laying in to his rant about the way
things are (imagined by him to be)

However, I can't, I want to bite into the Ufological "snipe
hunt" that Greer has created, and drawing others into his
circle, some good - some not. I want to see something useful but
know it ain't going to happen.

So, I was tempted, but I won't bite. 'The Truth' speaks for
itself.


GT McCoy

I had my little Angel on my shoulder saying "Bad GT,Bad GT!"
I know how Badger felt.










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   Mar > Mar 17

               Re: Tracing The Flow Of The Gulf Breeze Money -

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 00:38:45 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 16:59:48 -0500
Subject: Re: Tracing The Flow Of The Gulf Breeze Money -


>From: Jerry Black <gulfbreezeinfo.nul>
>To: UFO Updates <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 20:07:40 -0800 (PST)
>Subject: Re: Tracing The Flow Of The Gulf Breeze Money


>March 14, 2004

>To Mr. Bruce Maccabee,

>Mr. Bruce Maccabee, please do not bore others and me with your
>rehash of your conclusions presented at the MUFON Symposium in
>1988. Your biased and illogical conclusions and in some cases,
>outright untrue statements do not need to be repeated. It is
>still my opinion that your biased and illogical conclusions
>stated at the MUFON Symposium in 1988 were the results of a
>large payment made to the MUFON Organization from Ed Walters
>that was turned over to you, Mr. Maccabee.

Your opinion, is it? Backed up by proof? Or is your opinion
is more important than the
scientific analysis I have presented? Analyses of photos, including
especially the stereo photos which, as I have previously pointed
out numerous times, provided the "conclusive evidence" that
convinced me it was all true?
Oh, but, please.... I wouldn't want to bore you and the others
with "scientific analysis"......
because you couldn't understand it anyway (apparently!).


>I will now give you and your supporters the opportunity to prove
>me wrong. You've obliviously

obliviously?
perhaps, obviously?

>shown, during the Gulf Breeze
>sightings, that you are an avid supporter of the polygraph test,
>even a self-sponsored polygraph test, which is not accepted by
>most police departments and other security offices throughout
>the United States.

Have I said I was an avid supporter? No. I have, on the other
hand, taken the polygraph evidence into account when
evaluating Ed's sighting.
(Ed passed
two polygraph tests and one voice stress test. The polygraph
tests were especially interesting since the polygrapher
was paid to do one test and present the results to Ed, but didn't
believe the results of the first test - Ed passed - so he surprised Ed
by giving him another test... at no further cost...
when Ed arrived at his office expecting
only to get the results of the first test. Ed also passed the second
test. The results of these tests were published many years ago.)


>I am now inviting you, Mr. Bruce Maccabee, to take a polygraph
>test given by Mr. Cy Gilson who passed in 1992, Mr. Travis
>Walton and Mr. Mike Rodgers who were involved in the Travis
>Walton UFO abduction in 1975. Mr. Cy Gilson is located near
>Snowflake Arizona and I will pay for the polygraph test and
>reimburse you for any incidental expenses and meals. Since your
>good friend Mr. Stanton Friedman has been your avid supporter, I
>will allow him to pay for your travel expenses.

My, my. What a great offer. You let someone else pay for my
trip to Arizona. I'm sure Stan will be jumping all over that one!!

>Mr. Cy Gilson has over 25 years experience as a qualified
>polygraph expert and is well respected by the police departments
>throughout the state of Arizona.

I have no doubt that he is respected.

>Mr. Bruce Maccabee, you will be tested to see if you received
>any monies either directly from Mr. Ed Walters or the MUFON
>Organization to which you knew came from Mr. Ed Walters other
>than the monies that you received from the two books that both
>of you gentlemen wrote.

>Finally, you will be tested as to whether you truly believe in
>your heart, that the Ed Walters Gulf Breeze case is a true and
>valid case.

>If you should fail the polygraph test given by Mr. Cy Gilson and
>feel there was a personality problem or any other good reason
>for failing, I will pay for and give you the test again with
>polygraph expert Mr. Hugh Jones. You remember Mr. Hugh Jones Im
>sure, this is the gentleman whom Mr. Charles Flannigan set up an
>appointment for Mr. Ed Walters, and Mr. Ed Walters missed his
>appointment.

>Your avid supporters and I await your reply.

I suppose that if I fail the test by Gilson, that Stan can then
pay my way to Florida to take a second test from Hugh Jones?

OK, if this comes down to lie detection (forgetting "science")
then let me propose a more logical, reasonable approach that
would save a lot of money for you and Stan and save time for me:
YOU find some polygrapher in the Washington DC or Baltimore
area. I would do it, but if I did the test would be "self-
sponsored." Therefore you have to do it. I presume that Gilson
can recommend someone in the vicinity of DC or Balto, someone
who would produce accurate results... well at least to 95%
accuracy estimated for the "lie detector." (Don't know where Ed
Gelb lives. He might be another possibility.)

Note, by the way, that this lie detector approach is a perfectly
"logical" part of the process which embodies Stan's rule for
debunkers: if you can't attack *the data* attack *the person.*

Further commentary:

As I ponder this accusation of essentially taking a bribe from
Ed I think back to that fateful spring of 1988 at a time when no
one knew how things were going to turn out. Oddly enough,
sightings by Ed and others were occurring _during_ the
investigation. This happy situation almost never happens
(generally one investigates history... the sightings that took
place yesterday or a week ago or a month ago or years ago).

I entered the fray in the middle of February, quite certain that
in a few days I would be able to show it was all a hoax during
my first trip to Gulf Breeze - paid for by FUFOR - not by Ed!

Instead of finding a "witness" who was obviously spinning
stories, contradicting himself, refusing to allow analysis of
his photo evidence, refusing to be interviewed in depth, etc., I
found a guy who seemed completely open and even cooperative with
the investigators. (I also discovered, to mysurprise, that there
were numerous sightings by others.)

Everyone already knew by then that Ed had been offered a
sizeable sum as an advance on a book(I think it was $300,000)
and he had turned it down. This certainly didn't sound like a
guy who was out to make a few bucks by selling fake UFO photos
(take the money and run).

And yet the sighting reports were so unbelievable as to be...
unbelievable. And so I didn't believe them. But, on the other
hand, I couldn't prove they were faked. And, as Budd Hopkins has
pointed out, they were so complex as to require a real genius in
order to fake them all in a consistent manner.

But the point I want to make is this: I was alert to whatever Ed
might have done that could indicate a hoax. Offering me a bribe
would have been considered grounds for me calling the case a
hoax and getting out. As I think about it now, I find it
unimaginable that I would have accepted $$$ to perpetuate a
hoax.  Jerry seems to think that I would have accepted a bribe
and gone happily onward to a conclusion that the sightings were
real. Sorry, Jerry, but I value credibility more than that. Had
he offered me a bribe I would have immediately assumed it was a
hoax after all, would have called it a hoax and split. There
wouldn't have been any stereo SRS camera photos. (Ed made the
SRS camera at my suggestion; this camera was designed to
determine whether a UFO was a nearby model or a distant large
object.. Ed knew of its capability to discover a small model
hoax, but he built it anyway and even took 3 SRS UFO photos
(photo pairs)!) Also, there wouldn't have been any extensive
report at the MUFON symp (at least not by me) and there wouldn't
have been any book... at least none with my participation.

Even more mind boggling to me is Jerry's suggestion that MUFON
would try to bribe me after being bribed by Ed (i.e., taking
money from Ed and then passing it, or some of it, on to me). I
just can't imagine Walter Andrus even giving such a ridiculous
thing a passing thought. I am certain that if Ed had tried to
give multi-bux to MUFON/Andrus, Walter would have immediately
called the case a hoax and closed the investigation.

Believe it or not, Jerry, I did not need money to live and I did
not need to grub for $$$ from some UFO photographer who thought
he could make much more $$$ by bribing me to declare his photos
real.

I recall back in the 80's, probably before the GB investigation,
that I was handed the opportunity to get rich on a much simpler
UFO case involving video. A guy in New Hampshire offered to cut
me in... 50/50... if only I would verify that the UFOs he was
videotaping flying over his house were real. "As soon as you
verify the UFOs I can sell the video and we'll make lots of
money," he said (or something like that). "They land right over
there on the other side of that mountain," he explained. Sure
enough, in the video one could see the lights in the evening sky
disappearing over the mountain. UFOs landing. Open and shut
case. One problem. When the UFOs went overhead you could hear a
sound. Well, could be some special sound that UFOs make, even
though it also could have been the sound of a large jet
aircraft. And the orientation of the lights... diamond shape as
they went overhead. Just ignore the fact that a similar shape
often turns up on large jet aircraft.....

Needless to say (but I'll say it anyway) I didn't verify the
"UFOs" and the guy stopped pestering me after a while.

I have had other opportnities to claim "UFO" when I can suspect
either a hoax or an honest misidentification (e.g., the guy who
called me up and spent hours talking about his UFO video....
that turned out to be a video of the world's most popular UFO,
Venus.).

On the other hand, some witnesses have offered to pay small
amounts for analysis of photos or videos. I never ask for $$$,
but some witnesses offer it. A typical question is, "How much do
you charge for analyzing a photo?" In these cases I assume that
the witness actually realizes that analysis takes time and is
therefore worthy of recompense. I could respond, "More than you
can afford," but instead I never take a dime. In fact, I can't
recall taking money from any witness.

And, yes, analysis takes time and is worthy of recompense!

By the time of the GB sighting investigation I had already
invested something like 15 years in UFO studies and
investigation and I had already established a credible
reputation for accurate investigation of the McMinnville, Gemini
11, Tehran Jet, New Zealand, Japan Air Lines and other sightings
and had published papers on the FBI and government cover up.

I wasn't about to waste this reputation for $$$ on what
initially appeared to me to be a probable hoax.

I didn't even take any money after I concluded that it probably
wasn't a hoax (in the summer of 1988).

(The payment I received for a writing the last chapter in his
book was not until December, 1988.)

(It is well known that, in the summer of 1988, Bob Oechsler did
accept $5000 from Ed to cover the costs of extensive photo work
making, in a photo lab along with a professional photographer,
numerous copies of the originals, both prints and slides, at
varying exposure levels and magnifications. Oechsler and the
photographer spent about several weeks in a photo lab, as I
recall.)

Incidently, from my knowledge of the time Ed spent in doing
experiments with his camera and cooperating with other aspects
of the investigation, I conclude that Ed did spend quite a bit
of money on the investigation. But he spent it himself on
himself.... paying for tens and perhaps up to (and beyond?) a
hundred boxes of Polaroid film at roughly $10 per box. He also
spent a lot of time allowing himself to be interviewed and
carrying out photographic experiments (many of which were
designed to smoke out a hoax if there were one).

So the bottom line is.....

Bring it on!

I'll take your "lie detector" test... but I don't plan to spend
any extra time or waste anyone else's money on it.








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   Mar > Mar 17

               Re: Tracing the Flow of the Gulf Breeze Money -

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 00:38:51 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 17:03:47 -0500
Subject: Re: Tracing the Flow of the Gulf Breeze Money -


>From: Jerry Black <gulfbreezeinfo.nul>
>To: UFO Updates <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 20:09:27 -0800 (PST)
>Subject: Re: Tracing the Flow of the Gulf Breeze Money

>March 14, 2004

>Mr. Stanton Friedman,

>I've noticed recently in your reply to Kenny Young, you stated
>that Mr. Bruce Maccabee, in your opinion was a very objective
>investigator. Certainly nothing could be further from the truth
>in the case of the Gulf Breeze sightings. The word objective was
>not in Mr. Maccabee's vocabulary during his investigation into
>the Gulf Breeze sightings.

I don't know how you could presume to know which words were and
which weren't "in my vocabulary" during the Gulf Breeze
investigation. As I have pointed out numerous times in the past
and have published, my initial opinion was that this was another
Meier-type case (note: perhaps you should give Meier a polygraph
test).

It took months of analysis and investigation .. and _no_,_no_
money from _anyone_... before I concluded that the sightings by
Ed were real. (Of course, there were also all the other
sightings. Hmmmm... want to polygraph test the county coronor,
Fenner McConnell, and his wife? They claimed they saw the same
object near their house in July 1988. "And it was no small
model!" exclaimed Mrs. McConnell during a TV interview.)

>Some may consider you standing by your good friend Mr. Bruce
>Maccabee to be very noble, but considering you know nothing
>about the Gulf Breeze sightings it was not a very smart move.

>Please explain this to me, Mr. Friedman, how is it that three of
>Mr. Bruce Maccabee's friends, Mr. Richard Hall, Mr. Jerome Clark
>and Mr. Ray Fowler, do not support Mr. Bruce Maccabee's work in
t>he Gulf Breeze sightings. In another words, none of these
>gentlemen believes Mr. Maccabees conclusions in the Gulf Breeze
>sightings.

>Would you please explain this for me, I eagerly await your
>response.

I wouldn't presume to respond for Stan, but let me respond for
myself. Why don't Hall,Clark, Fowler, et al "believe?" Probably
because they haven't done what I did.

I, too, would probably doubt the conclusion if I hadn't done all
the calculations, analyses, interviews, etc. myself. Sorry, but
it takes a lot of analytical "horsepower" (knowledge of optics
and photography) to understand the significance of some of Ed's
photos. If these gentlemen, and you, can't understand all the
details of photography, parallax calculations for stereo
cameras, experiments to verify photographic parameters, etc.,
then you have to rely on someone who can.

One person who does understand is not in your list above - Jeff
Sainio.

He approached the GB sighting photos from a skeptical point of
view and ultimately concluded they were real. His method of
operation was to examine the photos independently of any
interviews. He was would have called them fake if he found any
conclusive evidence. He did indicate to me that he was surprised
that Ed was willing to let him (Sainio) borrow the originals for
analysis. Jeff presented his results at the 1992 MUFON
Symposium. Sainio did no interviews and never met Ed. He worked
solely with the photos themselves.

As for Messr's Hall, Clark, Fowler, et. al. They may have their
own opinions, but I note that not one of them has called me a
liar. Not one has called for a lie detector test. Perhaps this
is because they believe I would pass such a test.








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   Mar > Mar 17

               Re: Tracing the Flow of the Gulf Breeze Money -

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 00:38:59 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 17:06:00 -0500
Subject: Re: Tracing the Flow of the Gulf Breeze Money -


>From: Jerry Black <gulfbreezeinfo.nul>
>To: UFO Updates <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 20:11:47 -0800 (PST)
>Subject: Re: Tracing the Flow of the Gulf Breeze Money


>Mr. Robert Gates

>Your observation over the last several years, is that Rex
>Salisberry had his own biases and an agenda. Those biases and
>agenda, according to you, are that the Gulf Breeze sighting is a
>hoax.

>Your remarks about Mr. Rex Salisberry show me sir, that you
>know totally nothing about Gulf Breeze. The only scientific and
>objective investigator working for the Mutual UFO Network at
>that time was Rex Salisberry. If you're looking for biased
>investigators, sir, you need to look in the direction of Mr. Walt
>Andrus and Mr. Bruce Maccabee.

>The evidence I will present over the next several months will
>show conclusively that Mr. Bruce Maccabee did indeed receive
>monies from the Mutual UFO Network that were given to them by
>Mr. Ed Walters.

I am interested to find out how you are going to prove
"conclusively" something that _didn't_ happen!

There is no doubt that I would know if I had receive any money
from Ed before the payment for writing a book chapter (said
payment made at the end of 1988, long after my report at the
MUFON symposium in July, 1988).

I would also know if I have received any money from MUFON.

John Scheussler has recently told me that he reviewed the
financial statements and records of MUFON in 1988 and following
years and found to evidence of either donations by Ed. Nor did
he find any record of any payment to me until 1991. I believe
this was a payment of $800 to cover my Sept. 1991 trip to Gulf
Breeze to investigate the "Bubba" sightings and sightings of
rings of light moving throught the sky. It was during that trip
that I, too, saw a ring of lights appear (Sept. 16, 1991). It
was videotaped, photographed and witnessed by about 30 people.
Of course, this was long after the initial Gulf Breeze flap and
Ed's photos (1987 - 1988).

>Interesting to note when I told you things that Mr. Rex
>Salisberry had told me, you challenged those remarks. However,
>when alleged abductee, Katharina Wilson, from Gulf Breeze
>Florida tells you something about Mr. Rex Salisberry, you print
>it and believe it.

>Respectfully, if you decide to talk intelligently about Gulf
>Breeze, give me a call. If you don't call, I can only assume
>that you have your biased mind already made up.

My, my. Appears that anyone who questions or disagrees with
Jerry is biased.








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   Mar > Mar 17

                 Re: 'The Truth' According To Greer - Gates

From: Robert Gates <RGates8254.nul>
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 01:22:30 EST
Fwd Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 17:08:07 -0500
Subject: Re: 'The Truth' According To Greer - Gates


>From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>To: - UFO UpDates Subscribers - <ufoupdates.nul>
>Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 4:15 PM
>Subject: 'The Truth' According To Greer

>Source: CSETI

>http://www.cseti.org/programs/bookdictation2004.htm

>THE TRUTH

>(THE POWER ELITES DON'T WANT YOU TO KNOW)

So if the power elites don't want you to know why did they talk
to Greer who instantly blathered about in disclosure? The more
plausable explaination is Disclosure is being used by people to
promote certain agendas.

>You are invited to spend 5 days with Dr. Greer at his farm in
>Virginia to hear what he has learned after 14 years of
>investigations

Well we are all not actually invited because only 15 hand picked
people will be allowed to come.

>Start Date/Time: Sunday April 18, 2004 6 pm

>End Date/Time: Thursday, April 22, 2004 midnight

>Limited to 15 people, this unique event will be an oral
>presentation of the unvarnished truth. Designed to be the core
>of Dr. Greer's next book, at these presentations you will be
>privy to what really happens behind the scenes and to how the
>world's evolution has been hijacked for nearly a century by
>craven power interests.

So essentially the lucky participants will get the whole Greer
theory about how ET's are benovelent, how the evil governments
are really the ones behind abductions, how a fake ET invasion is
in the work, how the government is working on ET craft etc etc.
The evils of SDI, how free energy is being covered up blah blah
blah. Gee, I didn't need to even attend the event to know that
one.

>The event will be an informal gathering where Dr. Greer will
>present his first hand accounts and personal experiences, dating
>from childhood, regarding:

>+ The nature of reality and the experience of higher states of
>consciousness

>+ What extraterrestrial contact is really about

If you are an abductee, its called getting a probe stuffed up
some bodily orifice.  Not the behavior of benovelent ET's whose
only goal is to help humanity and earth move to the next level
of consciousness.

>+ What the religious elites don't want you to know about
>spirituality and why the priesthood is obsolete

Jesus is an ET? Or better yet religion is all some kind of big
ET stroke job, or its an establishment stroke job to cover up ET
blah blah blah....we have heard these theories all before from
different people.

>+ Who runs the shadowy secret government - and why
>
>+ The people, the corporations, facilities and agencies hiding
>the biggest secrets in history

All the usuall suspects.

>+ Who has stolen the free energy technologies - and why

>+ Disclosure - The inside look at 14 years of Dr. Greer meeting
>with the World's Power Elites - and what they know (and don't
>know)

I thought the power elites were all knowing and were the ones
keeping the secrets.

>+ The next 500,000 years: Blueprint of the golden age of
>humanity

>+ And more ...

>Dinners will be provided at the Farm and sessions will go from
>1:30 pm to around midnight each evening.

What about Breakfest and Lunch???

>All sessions will be recorded.

>Weather permitting, we will gather under the stars each evening.

>Fee: A minimum $600 donation to The Disclosure Project (more is
>appreciated).

9 Grand is not a bad minimum donation.

>Notes:

>+ This event requires a minimum of 10 and maximum of 15 people.
>We will make a decision on March 28th on whether it is a "GO",
>depending on how many people have signed up. Please wait for
>notification before booking flights.

So essentially if they don't get 15 pigeons, the Greer farm
disclosure event for 2004 is over...nah somehow it will come up
again.

>+ We reserve the right to select the 15 people from the list of
>applicants.

I would hope that they would screen the applicants alot better
then the disclosure witnesses.

>+ Everyone will be required to sign a Non-Disclosure Agreement.

Gee, Greer is going to unload the secret of the century but he
expects the participants to keep it secret.

>+ Anyone who has not attended a CSETI training will be required
>to fill out an application.

Is this what people on the List have called flash light waving?

>+ Everyone attending must stay the whole time, except if an
>emergency comes up at the last minute.

What if you have to go to the bathroom?????

Cheers,

Robert








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   Mar > Mar 17

               Re: New Zealander First To Explain UFOs - Brock

From: Rod Brock <humble98225.nul>
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 23:46:01 -0800 (PST)
Fwd Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 17:12:14 -0500
Subject: Re: New Zealander First To Explain UFOs - Brock


From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
To: - UFO UpDates Subscribers - ufoupdates.nul>
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 19:05:50 -0500
Subject: New Zealander First To Explain UFOs


>Source: Scoop - New Zealand

>http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/SC0403/S00064.htm

>17 March 2004

>PRESS RELEASE:

>New Zealander First To Explain UFOs

Mr. Coleman's ideas have made the rounds on this list at least
once before; however, the scope of phenomena that Coleman
purports to explain with this "unified" theory is even more
grand (or perhaps I should say "grandiose") than before.
"Unified theories" of UFOs are tiresome enough, in and of
themselves; throwing several species of "nocturnal lights" into
the mix just adds insult to injury.

I've considered the work and ideas of this Mr. Coleman from New
Zealand who is advancing this "vortice" theory of fireball
formation. The phenomenon, if it exists, is both interesting and
dramatic, but I find it quite awkward and inelegant as a
"unified theory" for explaining will o' the wisp, other
anomalous fireballs, ball lightning, the Min Min lights, and
some UFOs (which it purports to explain). The concept seems to
be more the sort that would occur in the vortice breakdown
region within tornadoes-ergo, high energy environments. This
being the case, Coleman is clearly unaware of the many and
varied historical manifestations of these phenomena, such as my
colleague Chris Aubeck and I  have seen in our research - e.g.,
multiple instances of clear air ball lighting, ball lightning
materialization in rooms and aircraft and other confined spaces,
not to mention the many and varied manifestations of other sorts
of nocturnal lights (e.g., will o' the wisp, or "corpse candle,"
or "earthlights," or whatever particular designation has been
used) in all sorts of calm, presumably low-energy environments.

In short, the theory posits that the combustion takes place in
the region of vortice breakdown, where the air velocities are
LOW. This may be so, but the _existence_ of the vortice, period,
is a high energy phenomenon. So, how to explain the
materialization of ball lighting in still air within a room, as
"vortice" related? How to explain the many and varied
manifestations of "will o' the wisp" not associated with dynamic
weather phenomena, nor with marshes, yet evidencing a kinematic
behavior that can only be described as "dynamic," and has even
sometimes been described as resembling a kind of "curiosity?"

There are other elements within his theory which do not jibe
with numerous accounts to be found in the literature. For
example, in support of the vortex explanation of ball-lighting,
Coleman notes that ball-lightning often explodes violently, thus
indicating the presence of some manner of volatile. He fails to
note that in some of the cases where ball lightning materializes
within confined spaces, the "explosion," while concurrent with
the disappearance of the spheroid, is reported to have occurred
somewhere OUTSIDE the enclosure. This is not suggestive of a
volatile confined in a vortex, but rather of some manner of
plasma phenomenon, where ionization is involved, and which may
further be evidenced by the oft reported odor of ozone in the
aftermath of the BL event.

The simple fact that his "theory" requires that fuel be picked
up by the vortice (e.g., gasoline, naptha, whatever), allows us
to see that a relatively rare concurrence of situations would be
necessary to create such vortice fireballs - that is, the
vortice must contact a fuel source EACH and EVERY time that a
fireball manifests. How then, does this vortice phenomenon
measure up against hundreds, if not thousands of NL cases
predating the 20th century? Indeed, how does it account for all
the anomalous "orb" observations at the Yakima Indian
reservation, alone?

What it comes down to is this: I'm not saying vortice-related
fireballs don't happen; I think they may happen, especially in
tornadic vortice breakdown (where you have the added "oomph" of
a tornado ripping up a gas line) But as a "unified" theory of
"nocturnal lights," Coleman's idea is practically worthless.


Regards,

Rod Brock








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   Mar > Mar 17

                Re: UFO Spies Vanish Into Black Hole - Clark

From: Jerome Clark <jkclark.nul>
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 03:02:23 -0600
Fwd Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 17:14:57 -0500
Subject: Re: UFO Spies Vanish Into Black Hole - Clark


>From: Steven Kaeser <steve.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 11:28:58 -0500
>Subject: Re: UFO Spies Vanish Into Black Hole

>>From: Wendy Connors <fadeddiscs.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 06:58:25 -0700
>>Subject: Re: UFO Spies Vanish Into Black Hole

>For all of the projects you've mentioned, who is the target
>audiance and where will that information eventually end up?
>While I would not agree with Andy completely, he makes a point.
>I don't think the field is "dead", but how the field is defined
>has been vastly changed by the Internet and the media. How
>ufology is viewed by the general public (not the subset of those
>that are involved in research) is far different than it was
>during the last half of of the 20th Century, and even during
>that time period the public's view evolved. Richard Hall's UFO
>Evidence II is a tremendous collection of information, updating
>one of the classic NICAP publications, but it hasn't really made
>any difference among those who aren't already involved in the
>field. Libraries didn't race out to purchase it, and I would
>suspect that sales have levelled off at this point.

Could you explain to me what you mean by the phrase "how ufology
is viewed by the general public"? You apparently assume that the
"general public" - whatever that entity is - (a) is aware of
ufology and (b) has an opinion about it. I see very little
evidence that this is the case, or even that the word "ufology"
is in many vocabularies outside ufologists'. People are aware of
UFOs, of course, but the number who worry about something called
"ufology" or who could even name a single "ufologist" comes
close to zero. I don't count Ufophobic polemicists who like to
sneer at "true believers" while betraying no knowledge whatever
of ufology's history, personalities, debates, and nature.

If libraries aren't rushing to buy Dick Hall's fine book, why do
you assume that's a judgment on ufology and not a function of
social and economic phenomena unrelated to ufology? For example,
declining reference-book sales in general, owing to the impact
of the Internet, cutbacks in library funding for books
generally, and other matters. Ufology exists in the world and is
subject to the same social forces everything else is.

Ufology and ufologists have their faults, obviously, and fair
and pointed criticism is essential to honest inquiry. But where
the rest of the world is concerned, ufology - good, bad, or
indifferent - lacks the resources to make any difference in the
larger world or even to be noticed there. That is no reason for
ufology to discontinue the productive work that it does,
including the research projects Wendy Connors cites and actively
participates in herself. As Allen Hynek used to remark
privately, it may well be that our work is for a future
generation of scientists and scholars to rediscover. If that's
the way it is - it certainly looks that way - I can live with
that.

>IMO, ufology is far from a scientific pursuit at this point,

Now, there's a cliche. With no institutional support from
mainstream science at all, the wonder is not that ufology is
mostly nonscientific, but that science gets done at all inside
it. That it does from time to time is something to be grateful
for, I should think. And to support, as in putting one's own
money into subscriptions to, for two importance instances, the
refereed, scientific Journal of UFO Studies and the Journal of
Scientific Exploration.

>while there are those within the field doing good work, it
>largely goes unnoticed by all but the hard-core among us.

Well, yes, as noted above. So why are you trying to have it both
ways, arguing, as I understand it, that the "general public" at
once (a) has found ufology wanting and (b) scarcely observes
ufology's existence and is ignorant of its concerns?


Jerry Clark








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   Mar > Mar 17

                Re: UFO Magazine Folds After Editor's Death -

From: Joe McGonagle <joe.mcgonagle.nul>
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 09:57:52 -0000
Fwd Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 17:16:51 -0500
Subject: Re: UFO Magazine Folds After Editor's Death -


>From: Roy Hale <roy.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 14:42:38 -0000
>Subject: Re: UFO Magazine Folds After Editor's Death

>>From: From: Joe McGonagle <joe.mcgonagle.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 22:43:04 -0000
>>Subject: Re: UFO Magazine Folds After Editor's Death

Roy stood on one leg, and repeated that amazing gymnastic
ventriloquist trick which he is so adept at:

Placing an entire foot in his mouth almost up to the knee-joint
whilst speaking from a different part of his anatomy he said...

<snip>

>Do you believe that after 50 years of FSR being published, their
>article research stands up to scrutiny?

Yes, some of it does. See for instance:

http://www.ufology.org.uk/article_read.asp?id=116

>So if there is no change in your position, you still feel that
>FSR is a magazine for stories, right!

No, please re-read my post at:

http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2004/mar/m13-008.shtml

>>It is not my opinion that is in question, you fell into the trap
>>of mocking one of the UKs most established UFO magazines.

I haven't stated an opinion, I stated a fact. If you are
bringing opinions into the discussion they must therefore be
your own. The fact that I stated (for at least the third time)
is:

"On the odd occasion when a magazine presents an article as
research, the so-called research does not always stand up to
scrutiny."

If it were an opinion, the only counter-opinion could be that :

"On the odd occasion when a magazine presents an article as
research, the so-called research does always stand up to
scrutiny."

So, is that your opinion, or do you agree with my fact?

I know what your problem is - something does sound like a joke
at:

http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2003/nov/m13-005.shtml

and it isn't FSR. You don't like to acknowledge that you made a
fool of yourself, so you are trying to make it appear that my
remarks were deriding FSR. Go on, admit it!

>You now advocate people to subscribe to FSR, and you deserved to
>be pulled up and asked on how such a change had occured within a
>few months from your reply to my original mail.

I've already made it abundantly clear that no change of position
in regard to FSR was made by me during the period in question.
If you check the archives, you will see that I have been
actively trying to engender support for FSR since at least 6th
August 2003, see:

http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2003/aug/m06-011.shtml

>And besides, aren't you a sceptic? What would a sceptic be
>doing asking people to subscribe to a Pro Humanoid Contact

Firstly, a true sceptic will consider all of the evidence, not
just what suits their pre-conceived ideas (unlike some people).

Secondly, since when did I ask you to choose my reading
material? Are you saying that only "true believers" are allowed
to see the "cosmic secrets" contained within FSR? If so, that is
a very elitist and discriminatory attitude that you have.

Thirdly, not all of the content is as you presume, perhaps you
only read the parts that are "Pro Humanoid Contact" because that
fits your preconceptions and they make you feel nice and warm
inside?

>Magazine? Am I the only person on this List who finds this odd?

Probably not, there are a few other strange people on the list
who would have trouble acknowledging what I wrote as fact, since
it would destroy their "I'm more open-minded than you" stance..

I'm sorry Roy, you are definitely beyond any help that I could
offer you.


Regards,

Joe






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   Mar > Mar 17

                  Re: 'The Truth' According To Greer - Hall

From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 13:10:09 +0000
Fwd Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 17:18:21 -0500
Subject: Re: 'The Truth' According To Greer - Hall


>From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Reply-To: ufoupdates.nul
>To: - UFO UpDates Subscribers - <ufo-updates.nul>
>Subject: UFO UpDate: 'The Truth' According To Greer Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 19:1
5:00 -0500

>Source: CSETI

>http://www.cseti.org/programs/bookdictation2004.htm

>THE TRUTH

>(THE POWER ELITES DON'T WANT YOU TO KNOW)

>You are invited to spend 5 days with Dr. Greer at his farm in
>Virginia to hear what he has learned after 14 years of
>investigations

<snip>

Cough, choke... gag. Sorry, I'm just up from rolling around on
the floor in laughter. As we can see, "Doc" Greer is the
greatest seer and prophet of modern times and we should hang on
his every word. And if we hang together we won't hang
separately.

But since I am really an even greater seer and prophet, I make
this better offer.  A select 20 of you are invited to meet with
me at the Donald E. Keyhoe Archives in Brentwood, Maryland, for
only $300 apiece and hear the really, really, really straight
story of who is hiding what from whom and why and wherefore and
whatnot.

In fact, Largo, Maryland where CSETI interestingly has a mailbox
far away from any Virginia farm country is only a short drive
from Brentwood. Visitors to the Archives will be treated to a
field trip where the Largo post office will be staked out to
observe any alien Virginians entering or leaving.

BYOB.

- Dick










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   Mar > Mar 17

               Re: Tracing The Flow Of The Gulf Breeze Money -

From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 13:14:17 +0000
Fwd Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 17:19:52 -0500
Subject: Re: Tracing The Flow Of The Gulf Breeze Money -


>From: Terry Groff <terry.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 09:42:43 -0600
>Subject: Re: Tracing The Flow Of The Gulf Breeze Money

>>From: Jerry Black <gulfbreezeinfo.nul>
>>To: UFO Updates <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 20:07:40 -0800 (PST)
>>Subject: Re: Tracing The Flow Of The Gulf Breeze Money

>>March 14, 2004

>>To Mr. Bruce Maccabee,

>>Mr. Bruce Maccabee, please do not bore others and me with your
>>rehash of your conclusions presented at the MUFON Symposium in
>>1988. Your biased and illogical conclusions and in some cases,
>>outright untrue statements do not need to be repeated. It is
>>still my opinion that your biased and illogical conclusions
>>stated at the MUFON Symposium in 1988 were the results of a
>>large payment made to the MUFON Organization from Ed Walters
>>that was turned over to you, Mr. Maccabee.

>>I will now give you and your supporters the opportunity to prove
>>me wrong.

<snip>

>Mr. Black,

>No one is required to prove you wrong. Since you are the
>accuser, you must prove yourself right. We are all waiting to
>see and hear your "proof", not your anecdotes and hearsay.

Amen to this!

  - Dick










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   Mar > Mar 17

                 Re: UFO Spies Vanish Into Black Hole - Pope

From: Nick Pope <nick.nul>
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 16:31:05 -0000
Fwd Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 17:21:34 -0500
Subject: Re: UFO Spies Vanish Into Black Hole - Pope


>From: Terry W. Colvin <fortean1.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>,
>Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 17:51:39 -0700
>Subject: UFO Spies Vanish Into Black Hole

<snip>

>Mark Townsend
>Sunday March 14, 2004
>The Observer

>At its peak, tens of thousands would await the latest lurid
>tales of alien autopsies and flying saucers spying on sleepy
>market towns.

>Yet the publication that took UFOs from the sci-fi hinterland to
>the mainstream has now enjoyed its final print run. After almost
>25 years, UFO Magazine was quietly shut down last week.
>Suggestions of paranormal interference or alien involvement have
>been ruled out. The reason is more down-to-earth: not enough
>people care these days.

<snip>

List,

Mark Townsend's article was followed by a feature in Monday's
Daily Mail, entitled "U-F-O-NO?". Like the Observer piece, the
message the journalist seemed to be conveying was that ufology
is dead. The Daily Mail article was written by their science
editor Michael Hanlon, who some List members may recall wrote
about Kevin Conde's Rendlesham Forest claims on July 2 last
year, under the headline "UFO-OLED!".

I was telephoned about the Daily Mail article by Sky News, and
asked to come into their studio to do a live interview on the
state of ufology. I did this at around 4.45 on Monday afternoon
and explained that while UFO Magazine had closed, this had
nothing to do with the level of interest or the number of
sightings. Rather, it was a decision taken by Graham Birdsall's
family in the aftermath of his tragic and untimely death.

Yesterday I went to Stourbridge to give a lecture to UFO
Research Midlands, a local group chaired by Steve Poole. There
were around eighty or ninety people in the audience, but while
there was genuine sadness at the closure of UFO Magazine, I
sensed no loss of interest. Indeed, I formed the impression that
in the aftermath of the magazine's closure we might see an
increased focusing on the grassroots research and investigation
done at local level.

Other things are happening in the UK that lead me to conclude
that ufology is far from dead, and that there is still
considerable public and media interest in the subject. Channel
Five will screen a one-hour UFO documentary at the end of May. I
have been asked to debate the subject at the Cheltenham Festival
of Science in June. Goldsmiths College Psychology Department's
scientific study into the alien abduction phenomenon is now
underway. It is supported by ufologists such as Judith Jaafar
and Malcolm Robinson, and a number of abductees with whom I have
worked are taking part. Finally, I understand that other more
sympathetic articles and features on ufology will be appearing
shortly in the national media.


Best wishes,

Nick Pope








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                Re: UFO Spies Vanish Into Black Hole - Warren

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 09:22:23 -0800
Fwd Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 17:26:14 -0500
Subject: Re: UFO Spies Vanish Into Black Hole - Warren


>From: Steven Kaeser <steve.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 11:28:58 -0500
>Subject: Re: UFO Spies Vanish Into Black Hole

>>From: Wendy Connors <fadeddiscs.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 06:58:25 -0700
>>Subject: Re: UFO Spies Vanish Into Black Hole

><snip>

>>I have to agree with Jerry Clark. Ufology is far from dead or
>>even passe. Roberts, as usual, must be taking one of his
>>trips... and I'm not talking Club Med.

>>Let's see. During this lull in major activity, the following is
>>taking place while Roberts flits around like the tooth fairy:

>>1. Richard Hall is producing a major analysis of the 1966-67
>>Wave.

>>2. Jerry Clark is producing a major work on pre-1947 material...
>>which hasn't been tapped before.

>>3. Carl Fiendt is producing major work on underwater UFOs...
>>neglected for decades, I might add.

>>4. Vincente-Juan Olmos is cataloguing the photographic
>>evidence... much needed and has been for decades.

>>5. Jan Aldrich is compiling radar/UFO material from new
>>sources.

>>6. Loren Gross has completed his 30 year trek of UFO history in
>>his wonderful and very important booklet series from the Ghost
>>Rockets to 1959.

>>7. Frank Warren is hard at work digging up every scrap
>>detailing the Maury Island incident.

>>8. Francis Ridge is ensuring that the NICAP material is on-line
>>for the benefit of all... and that's a huge job, but a great
>>one.

>>9. Dominic Weinstein is hard at work updating his Pilot/Radar
>>databases.

>>10. Larry Hatch is still hard at work making the UFO database
>>something everyone can be proud.

>>11. Ann Druffel just gave us a major insight into Dr. James E.
>>McDonald.

>>Well, the list of projects continuing in Ufology is enormous and
>>world-wide. Ufology is far from dead. It's losing many of it's
>>fanatics, dingbats, do-do's, conspiracy nuts, etc., which is a
>>good thing, but they'll pop up in force when the next major wave
>>or event takes place.

>>What Ufology needs to lose is the Andy Roberts, who haven't a
>>clue as to what the hell they are talking about.

Steven, Wendy,

>Wendy,

>For all of the projects you've mentioned, who is the target
>audiance and where will that information eventually end up?
>While I would not agree with Andy completely, he makes a point.
>I don't think the field is "dead", but how the field is defined
>has been vastly changed by the Internet and the media. How
>ufology is viewed by the general public (not the subset of those
>that are involved in research) is far different than it was
>during the last half of of the 20th Century, and even during
>that time period the public's view evolved. Richard Hall's UFO
>Evidence II is a tremendous collection of information, updating
>one of the classic NICAP publications, but it hasn't really made
>any difference among those who aren't already involved in the
>field. Libraries didn't race out to purchase it, and I would
>suspect that sales have levelled off at this point.

Roberts was quoted as saying, "the public's fascination with
mysterious flying objects had faded." I think it would be fair
to say that "television ratings" and "box office ticket sales"
would be a good "litmus test" to gauge the "public's
fascination" with UFOs, and the like. E.g., the Roswell
Documentary was the highest rated show in SCI-FI Channel
history. Similar numbers were achieved with the documentaries on
Kecksburg and Rendlesham. Mel Gibson's movie "Signs" was a "Mega
Blockbuster" and with the exception of "Passion," it was his all
time "top grossing hit" out of 33 films spanning 27 years. Let
us not forget Spielberg's mini-series, "Taken." Believe me the
interest, fascination and curiosity held by the public in
regards to the subject of UFOs is as strong as ever.

I think the public's "outward view" or "perception" of Ufology
has been fairly consistent (say in the last 40 years)given the
years of debunking by the government and eventual neglect by the
media, with the exception of light hearted and or ignorant
reporting.

Furthermore, I would venture to say that "most of us"  involved
in Ufology "have evolved" in our thinking and or "perception" of
the subject. I think it's safe to say that the majority started
out as skeptics, as that is what society has programmed us for -
 little green men, flying saucers - don't be silly!

I also feel that Dick Hall's work and others like it, has and
does "make a difference" to level-headed" people ignorant to
Ufology. It was work like his, that for me personally, and I'm
sure, not unlike others, made me ask questions, and want to know
more; yes it can be construed as a "David and Goliath" scenario,
but it still has its positive effects nonetheless.

>IMO, ufology is far from a scientific pursuit at this point, and
>while there are those within the field doing good work, it
>largely goes unnoticed by all but the hard-core among us.

It wasn't when the mass media wasn't ignoring the subject.

>I would also suggest that we are not seeing any reduction in the
>number of "fanatics, dingbats, do-do's, conspiracy nuts, etc."
>on the Internet and at sponsored symposiums. It pains me to see
>some of the good researchers in the field jumping at the
>opportunity to appear on the same venue as those that define the
>"fringe" in ufology, but they seem to be addicted to the
>limelight and don't really understand that they become defined
>in part by those they appear with.

The "fringe element," I believe, has also been consistent over
the years.

>The loss of UFO Magazine UK as a resource may have been
>inevitable due to loss of subscriptions and rising costs. UFO
>publications in the US also have problems, IMO, and unless there
>is an event that sparks the interest of the general public, then
>I suspect the number of (what I would define as scientifically
>oriented) UFO researchers will dwindle over time. Should that
>occur, the field will fragment further and who can guess as to
>what it will look like in 15 or 20 years.

So far, within the last 7 decades, UFOs haven't let us down -
interest and participation ebb and flow with UFO activity, or
lack thereof.

I think it is safe to say that until the "power-that-be" make a
statement, and or the mass media gets more serious and
inquisitive, UFO researchers will always be a small minority.
(David).

>Just a few thoughts.

>Steve

Me too.


Cheers,

Frank










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   Mar > Mar 17

                             Dr. Norman Bergrun

From: Bruce Hutchinson <bhutch.nul>
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 12:48:06 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 17:27:56 -0500
Subject: Dr. Norman Bergrun


Fellow Listers;

I bring this up only because the title "Dr." has a lot of cache
when appended to one's name. I got curious when Bergrun's name
was attached to a recent post regarding a supposed UFO spotted
in Saturn's rings, and because he was one of the speakers
recently at the Laughlin conference.

Turns out that "Dr." Bergrun's qualifications might not be quite
what you might expect, given that he also likes to include
former associations with Lockheed, Ames and NASA in his credits.

Here is his curriculum vitae:

http://www.ringmakersofsaturn.com/About%20Bergrun.htm

BS (ME) from Cornell University
LLB From Lasalle
Dsc (Hon) from World University (??!!)

World University, it turns out, is a non-accredited school based
in India that only gives courses in Indian Spiritualism and
"Ancient Science"!

"The World University, run by The Foundation For World Awakening
on the initiative of Sri Kalki Bhagavan, will become a centre
where all the branches of ancient science from around the globe
will be studied, documented and taught."

http://www.experiencefestival.com/index.php/topic/wu-overview

I'm not sure how Bergrun got a _honorary_ degree from such an
"institution", but there it is.

But, it is clear that Bergrun feels that even when he is moving
in astronomical, UFO, or NASA circles, he has the right to use
the title "Dr.", despite the fact that it is an unearned,
honorary degree in Ancient Science from an institution that
clearly does not make even a pretence of teaching modern
scientific thought. Reality is, his highest educational
accomplishment in science is a BSci. That demonstrates that
Bergrun is probably a smart guy, but I guess he thought he
needed the honorific to impress the masses.

To be fair, Bergrun does not try to hide this information.
However, as few people bother to check these things out, it does
give a very false impression of his education and
accomplishments.


Regards;

Bruce Hutchinson








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             Re: New Zealander First To Explain UFOs - Maccabee

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 13:06:21 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 17:30:34 -0500
Subject: Re: New Zealander First To Explain UFOs - Maccabee


>Source: Scoop - New Zealand

>http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/SC0403/S00064.htm

>17 March 2004


>PRESS RELEASE:

>New Zealander First To Explain UFOs

>For centuries unexplained lights have appeared in the night sky
>with no suitable theory though many have been advanced. A New
>Zealander is claiming he was the first to successfully explain
>the mystery lights commonly called "UFOs" with a unified theory.
>These are the hard-to-explain UFO cases. Author and researcher
>Peter Coleman has revealed the real science behind these
>unexplained UFO fireballs.

<snip>

>The key idea is that many UFO reports are actually luminous
>vortices. Only vortices have the power and unpredictibility to
>account for extreme events. Couple this to the idea that a
>vortex is actually on fire in a spheroidal zone of vortex
>breakdown and you have a potent formula that will explain many
>puzzling lights.

>Vortex breakdown is the essential element. The low air speeds in
>this region enable a combustion flame to survive amidst the
>surrounding high speed air streams. Imagine seeing such a vortex
>at night all that you would see would be the fireball region
>moving around in seemingly unpredictable fashion and against the
>wind!

>That such atmospheric vortex burners should exist is
>indisputable and first postulated by Coleman. The whole concept
>is firmly based on known ideas and results in science. Coleman
>believes that a correct solution could not have eventuated prior
>to 1957 simply because vortex breakdown was discovered in 1957
>on the leading edge of model wings of planes.

How many night light UFO sightings occur at the same time that a
high speed jet is zooming by to create vorticies of combustible
gas? (Where dd that comubstible gas come from, anyway?)

>The speculation and confirmnation that naturally occurring
>vortices should exhibit vortex breakdown would have have come
>later. Vortex breakdown has been seen in tornadoes only
>relatively recently by Pauley and Snow in 1988. Reports in early
>meteorological literature testify that such vortex burners
>exist. Collectively there is now sufficient evidence in favour
>of this unified theory.

>Dr Stanley Singer a ball litghtning researcher, retired
>Professor Karl Nickel, Russian Scientists such as Marina Pankova
>and now a prominent scientist and physicist Bernard Haisch
t>hinks that the theory may explain some UFOs.

Perhaps... some UFOs. OK. Which ones?

This doesn't explain the New Zealand sightings of December,
1978.








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   Mar > Mar 17

               Re: Clumps In Saturn's Rings Giant UFOs? - Hand

From: William Hand <ufotruth.nul>
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 13:33:38 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 17:34:10 -0500
Subject: Re: Clumps In Saturn's Rings Giant UFOs? - Hand


>From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufuopdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 18:08:25 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
>Subject: Clumps In Saturn's Rings Giant UFOs?

>Back in 1987, Dr. Norman Bergrun presented visual evidence in
>his book 'Ringmakers of Saturn' of what he claimed were giant
>UFOs in the rings of Saturn. These large clumps in Saturn's
>rings were first spotted back in 1980 in pictures taken by
>NASA's Voyagers 1 spacecraft as it flew past Saturn on its way
>to the outer regions of our solar system. Since Voyager 2 did
>not find these same clumps which Voyager 1 found to be orbiting
>Saturn nine months earlier, it was assumed that these clumps
>were some unexplained short lived natural phenomenon - or
>possibly even giant UFOs that came and went as they pleased. Dr.
>Bergrun spoke about these giant UFOs as recently as last month
>at the International UFO Congress in Laughlin, Nevada.

>With the international Cassini-Huygens spacecraft rapidly
>closing in on Saturn, we will soon be able to judge for
>ourselves after we examine the closest and highest resolution
>pictures ever taken of the rings if these clumps are indeed
>giant UFOs as Dr. Bergrun and a few others suspect that they
>are.

>http://spaceflightnow.com/news/n0403/12saturnrings/

Watch farscape and you will realize what this could possibly be,
or at least their fictional version.

A creature known as a BOODONG!

It is very large and lives in planetary systems with rings of
debris.








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   Mar > Mar 17

                         Aztec UFO Fest Opens Friday

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 11:26:33 -0800
Fwd Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 17:36:39 -0500
Subject: Aztec UFO Fest Opens Friday


Source: The Daily Times - Farmington, New Mexico

http://www.daily-times.com/artman/publish/article_9513.shtml

Mar 17, 2004

Aztec UFO fest opens Friday
by
Debra Mayeux/The Daily Times

AZTEC =97 Fifty-six years ago on a small, dirt road north of
Aztec, something unexplainable happened.

A saucer-shaped ship, 100-feet in diameter, was said to have
crash-landed leaving small charred bodies inside. There were
eyewitnesses =97 military, locals and police officers. There are
Air Force documents one man is working to declassify.

Scott Ramsey of Charlotte, N.C., has spent the past 14 years of
his life researching the purported Aztec UFO crash of 1948. He
has traveled to 28 states, visited numerous military bases and
talked to alleged eyewitnesses of the event.

=93We want to be extremely careful to make sure people are
reliable witnesses,=94 Ramsey said of his research. =93We really try
not to open our mouth until a lot of research has been done.=94

Ramsey will present his findings at the 7th annual Aztec UFO
Symposium Friday through Sunday at Koogler Middle School. His
talk, which he says is =93no smoking gun,=94 will be presented at 11
a.m. Saturday.

The alleged Aztec crash occurred only months after the more
famous 1947 Roswell crash of another alleged UFO. It was two
years before the March 17, 1950, Farmington UFO Armada, which
celebrates its 54th anniversary today.

News accounts at the time, including a front page story in The
Daily Times, said a fleet of hundreds of UFOs were seen by
hundreds of residents flying in formation at high rates of speed
across the city. The event later became know as the Farmington
UFO Armada.

Ramsey said there were several UFO sightings in the state
between 1947 and 1953, almost of which were documented in Air
Force archives.

=93Aircraft were picking up UFOs in New Mexico,=94 the researcher
said. =93My declassifications are centered around Aztec and the
Air Force during that time frame.=94

Most of his research began with a book, =93Behind the Flying
Saucers,=94 published in the 1950s by Frank Scully, who was tipped
off by New Mexico oil men Silas Newton and Leo GeBauer. The two
did not have the best reputation and most skeptics believe the
story was a farce used by Newton and GeBauer to sell oil =93doodle
bug=94 equipment.

=93They had their share of encounters with the law,=94 Ramsey said
of the men, but Scully also claimed he received information from
eight or nine scientists.

Ramsey said Scully went into such great detail in his book, it
had to come from scientists. Ramsey said he was able to prove
many of the details from documents declassified in 1999.

=93It=92s hard to put my presentation into a nutshell, but we=92ve
looked at Scully=92s story,=94 he said.

In addition to Scully=92s claims, Ramsey was able to discover
secret military radar sites in the state. These sites may have
detected the UFO before it crashed near Aztec, but Ramsey said
he still has years of research before solidifying that claim.
What he does have is maps of the radar bases for public review
at the symposium.

Ramsey also commissioned a study of artifacts found at the crash
site. Unfortunately the findings will not be ready for
presentation until next year.

A key artifact was a piece of concrete slab at the site. The
slab has been dismissed as a well cap, but a member of the
military told Ramsey its purpose was as a footer for a crane
used to remove the UFO.

=93It=92s a controversial piece, we=92re trying to date to 1948,=94
Ramsey said adding the study is highly controlled with only one
person on staff knowing the concrete came from a purported UFO
crash site.

Ramsey said he will present his findings to date, some claims
from skeptics, as well as a time line for the crash. He will
also lead tours to the crash site, when he is not speaking at
the symposium.

The cost for the symposium is $50 for Saturday and Sunday, plus
an additional $18 for the Meet and Greet from 6-8 p.m. Friday. A
one day ticket is $35.

Information: The Aztec UFO Information Center, (505) 334-9890 or
on the Web at www.aztecufo.com.










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   Mar > Mar 17

                   A Movie Musical About Ufos And Aliens!

From: Chris Rutkowski <rutkows.nul>
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 14:33:03 -0600
Fwd Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 17:39:44 -0500
Subject: A Movie Musical About Ufos And Aliens!


17 March 2004

Yesterday, I was walking outside a small strip mall when I
passed a video store. Having a few minutes to kill, I went in
and browsed the racks. I soon realized that about half of the
titles in the store were East Indian movies, nearly all in Hindi
or Punjabi. This was a Bollywood goldmine, to be sure. I
casually surveyed the titles and then saw, exactly at eye level,
on the "New Titles" display, the DVD box titled "Koi...Mil
Gaya."

This was one movie I had to have! You see, Koi...Mil Gaya (which
means, apparently, something like "Now that I've found you") is
a Bollywood movie starring some of India's best and hottest
actors - and it's all about UFOs and aliens. ("All singing! All
dancing! All levitating!") I had heard about it several months
ago and discussed it in some forums, but never thought I'd ever
see a copy. I took out a membership in the little store and paid
my two dollars for the rental. I watched the movie later in the
evening when most of my family wasn't around so they weren't
forced to watch it too. I turned on the English subtitles,
although I realized soon into the movie that there was enough
English injected in the dialogue that it probably wasn't
necessary.

It's hard to describe Koi...Mil Gaya. Imagine The Sound of Music
meets E.T., with the lead played by Jim Carrey or Jerry Lewis.
Yes, it's a musical, and this makes it the only UFO movie
musical I can think of. (Unless you count The Rocky Horror
Picture Show.) It's also a romantic comedy, an X-Files episode,
and a Nickelodeon-ish kids flick that delivers a message about
acceptance and an appreciation of life. The scenery and
cinematography are fanstastic, and the dance sequences are
choreographed well, even including special effects and actors on
a lot of wires, with tributes to Gene Kelly and Fred Astaire
musicals.

But good grief, is it ever silly!

The story brings together bits of many other movies, borrowing
heavily from practically ever genre.

Follow this plot: a scientist (in Canada, of all places!) makes
contact with aliens using 1980s computer technology and CE3K-
like tones. His scientist colleagues, of course, don't beleive
him. Later, while driving along an isolated highway with his
pregnant wife, a UFO buzzes them and he crashes. He's killed and
his wife is injured, causing brain damage to her unborn child.
She moves to India and raises her son, Rohi, to manhood,
although he has the mind of a child. He hangs around with the
young kids in his grade 6 class and accidentally meets Nisha, a
gorgeous woman who just wants to party. The local jock/bully
intervenes and our boy loses his girl. But when they get
together again, he inadvertently contacts the aliens again with
a Commodore 64 and they arrive, much to the Keystone-Kop-like
antics and consternation of the local police and army officials.
One alien is left behind, a cute little ET named Jaadoo, who
resembles a blue Tele-Tubbie. He can cure injuries and levitate
people and stuff like that, like My Favorite Martian. There's
even an astoundingly silly basketball game in which the kids are
pitted againt the bullies, and the alien helps them out with
magical powers. Oh, and did I mention the musical dance number
with Jaadoo and the kids frolicking in the fields? Nisha falls
madly in love with Rohi, despite his mental disability. However,
Jaadoo "cures" Rohi's slowness and he is instantly transformed
into a genius, a super- athlete and a disco dance king. There's
a bicycle- and-alien-in- a-bag flying sequence that must surely
violate some kind of copyright. Rohi escapes a hail of bullets
and police as he rescues Jaadoo with his newfound superhuman
speed and agility. He saves Jaadoo from the bad guys and helps
him get back to his spaceship, but Jaadoo takes away his powers
when he leaves for space. (or does he?) Rohi is arrested because
he stole the alien from under the army's noses (in one scene,
almost literally). But in the end he is exonerated and the boy
and girl live happily ever after.

Its website is: www.koimilgayathefilm.com

Hoo-boy! Let's see Spielberg top that one!







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   Mar > Mar 18

                 More Strange Sightings This Time In The Air

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 08:52:19 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 08:52:19 -0500
Subject: More Strange Sightings This Time In The Air





Source: The Tahlequah Daily Press, Tahlequah, Oklahoma

http://tahlequahdailypress.com/articles/2004/03/04/news/top_stories/aaaflying.pr
t

March 4, 2004


More Strange Sightings, This Time In The Air


By Eddie Glenn, Press Staff Writer

Yesterday, when we ended our discussion of strange sightings in
Cherokee County, the topic was Bigfoot, that large hairy beast
who walks upright and allegedly digs through people's trash.

Today, we turn our eyes to the sky, to investigate sightings of
unidentified flying objects (UFOs) in the northeastern Oklahoma
skies.

Keep in mind, however, that although many of us may immediately
think of little green men with large heads scampering from giant
whirring saucers, the term "UFO" is actually quite literal -
 it's anything in the sky that can't be identified.

A visit to the Web site www.ufocasebook.com turns up a report
from 1993 of a couple who were driving home to their house 10
miles north of Tahlequah, on State Highway 10. The couple saw a
glowing oval near Sparrowhawk Mountain (which, by the way, is
just across the Illinois River from Pumpkin Hollow, where our
last Bigfoot sighting occurred. This is mentioned not to imply
that Bigfoot flies around in UFOs, but simply to provide some
sort of continuity to the two stories.).

Anyway, as the couple reached the straight-away on the north
side of the mountain, where S.H. 10 runs through Ed Fite's
property, the UFO headed west. (Fite is mentioned, not to imply
that he might travel around in UFOs - although that may not be
difficult for many who know him to believe - but simply to
provide a more accurate description of where this particular UFO
sighting occurred.)

According to their report, the couple estimated the size of the
UFO to be about the size of two or three double-wide mobile
homes, and they said it may have been making a soft humming
noise. It was moving about 10 miles an hour and was about 150
feet off the ground. They described it as glowing gray, with a
red light on top, and blue and white lights near the center.

The report states: "The next day my wife called Sparrowhawk
village, a small community located on top of the mountain, and
asked if they had seen it. They said yes, and they were on top
of their cars welcoming it!"

Carol Parrish is pastor of Light of Christ Community Church, at
Sparrowhawk Village. According to her, such sightings aren't
uncommon in that area; in fact, they're associated with the very
features that inspired her to locate LCCC on top of Sparrowhawk
Mountain.

Parrish said the sanctuary of the church is built over the point
where five "leys" - lines of energy that run through the earth -
 converge. Many early spiritual sites, she said - especially
those revered by Celtic people - were built on such
convergences.

"Wherever there are energy leys, and they cross each other, they
form energy centers," said Parrish. "Those energy centers help
people shift in levels of consciousness; that enhances
meditation, prayer, altered states of consciousness, inner
healing, and inner growth."

Visions of UFOs, and more, are quite common in and around the
Sparrowhawk community, she said.

"I would say the sightings vary from people being aware of an
angelic figure to being aware of something in the sky, whether
it be saucers or lights," Parrish said.

"'In my Father's house are many mansions,'" she quoted from the
biblical book of John (Chapter 14, verses 2-3), and then
continued, "How I look at it is, there are many dimensions to
life."

Parrish said the concentrated energy on the mountain serves as
an amplifier of sorts, revealing - often depending on our
current state of mind - some of those other dimensions we don't
ordinarily see.

"Our own mood," she said, "makes a difference in what images
open up for us."

According to Dr. Bruce Cornet, deputy administrator for the
National Institute for Discovery Science, Cherokee County hasn't
had an unusually high number of reported UFO sightings. But he
added that probably 80 percent of all sightings are not
reported.

According to the NIDS UFO sighting database, 26 sightings in the
county have been reported since 1959.

"Most of those are from the 1970s and later," Cornet said. "The
greatest number have been from 1996 to now; in fact, there have
been 15 since 1999."

Cornet said the descriptions of the UFOs reported in Cherokee
County are typical - saucers, ovals, flashing lights, etc.

But one sighting that isn't in the NIDS database is one that,
according to Tahlequah artist Murv Jacob, was seen by an entire
football stadium full of people, sometime in the late 1980s.

"I was sitting in a football stadium at Locust Grove with about
100 other people when we saw it, so if I'm crazy, practically
everyone in Locust Grove is crazy, too," he said. "It was
perfectly circular, and it was bright green. Some people thought
it was at tree level, and other people thought it was way up in
the sky. I didn't think it was very big at first, but it's hard
to tell when it's up in the sky and you don't have a frame of
reference."

Jacob said he later talked to people who had been at the
Cherokee Heritage Center in Park Hill that night, and they saw
it as well.

Jacob said that if the UFO he saw that night had any occupants,
he can't imagine why they'd be hanging out here.

"We deserve to be here alone, the way we act," he said. "But I
guess they're interested in us, anyway."

Get involved

UFO sightings can be reported to the National Institute for
Discover Science by calling (702)-798-1700, or by visiting their
Web site at www.nidsci.org, where sightings can be reported
online.

-----

[UFO UpDates thanks Norm for the lead]






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   Mar > Mar 18

                 Re: 'The Truth' According To Greer - Clark

From: Jerome Clark <jkclark.nul>
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 15:57:06 -0600
Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 08:59:12 -0500
Subject: Re: 'The Truth' According To Greer - Clark


>From: Wendy Connors <fadeddiscs.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 19:58:41 -0700
>Subject: Re: 'The Truth' According To Greer

>Now Greer has a farm...just like Howard Menger! Get it? Howard
>held the first Interplanetary Space Convention at his farm in
>Lebannon, NJ in September, 1958.


Yeah, Wendy, but at least Howard Menger was fun!

Cheers,

Jerry Clark







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   Mar > Mar 18

                        Re: JPL's Mars UFO - Anderson

From: Paul Anderson <paulanderson.nul>
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 14:34:33 -0800
Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 09:02:34 -0500
Subject: Re: JPL's Mars UFO - Anderson


>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 23:42:48 -0400
>Subject: Re: JPL's Mars UFO - Ledger

>I'd say a reflection off a flat faced rock, Nick. I note another
>reflection in the foreground as well.

>Is your last paragraph suggesting that either Mar's 2 and 3
>might be a possible reason for the reflections?


Nope, sorry, as I noted yesterday, it is the discarded heat
shield from the lander, already discussed and confirmed by JPL
in the press briefings. I saw a closeup somewhere yesterday too,
in one of the raw image archives, forget which one offhand
(there are a few of them).


Paul






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   Mar > Mar 18

                Re: 'The Truth' According To Greer - Stanford

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 18:03:41 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 09:06:51 -0500
Subject: Re: 'The Truth' According To Greer - Stanford


>Source: CSETI

>http://www.cseti.org/programs/bookdictation2004.htm

>THE TRUTH

>(THE POWER ELITES DON'T WANT YOU TO KNOW)

>You are invited to spend 5 days with Dr. Greer at his farm in
>Virginia to hear what he has learned after 14 years of
>investigations

>Start Date/Time: Sunday April 18, 2004 6 pm

>End Date/Time: Thursday, April 22, 2004 midnight

>Limited to 15 people, this unique event will be an oral
>presentation of the unvarnished truth. Designed to be the core
>of Dr. Greer's next book, at these presentations you will be
>privy to what really happens behind the scenes and to how the
>world's evolution has been hijacked for nearly a century by
>craven power interests.

>The event will be an informal gathering where Dr. Greer will
>present his first hand accounts and personal experiences, dating
>from childhood, regarding:

>+ The nature of reality and the experience of higher states of
>consciousness

>+ What extraterrestrial contact is really about

>+ What the religious elites don't want you to know about
>spirituality and why the priesthood is obsolete

>+ Who runs the shadowy secret government - and why

>+ The people, the corporations, facilities and agencies hiding
>the biggest secrets in history

>+ Who has stolen the free energy technologies - and why

>+ Disclosure - The inside look at 14 years of Dr. Greer meeting
>with the World's Power Elites - and what they know (and don't
>know)

>+ The next 500,000 years: Blueprint of the golden age of
>humanity

>+ And more ...

>Dinners will be provided at the Farm and sessions will go from
>1:30 pm to around midnight each evening.

>All sessions will be recorded.

>Weather permitting, we will gather under the stars each evening.

>Fee: A minimum $600 donation to The Disclosure Project (more is
>appreciated).

>Notes:

>+ This event requires a minimum of 10 and maximum of 15 people.
>We will make a decision on March 28th on whether it is a "GO",
>depending on how many people have signed up. Please wait for
>notification before booking flights.

>+ We reserve the right to select the 15 people from the list of
>applicants.

>+ Everyone will be required to sign a Non-Disclosure Agreement.

Astonishing! Let's recall that he requires, "A minimum $600
donation to The Disclosure Project (more is appreciated)."

Considering the fact that people shall have shelled out a
minimum of $600 each, you think he'd allow them the right to
freedom of speech! Even if it what Greer offers were free, you'd
still hope he would allow them the right to freedom of speech!

One could suspect - based on what I've heard of Greer from his
former friends - that he's actually afraid that if those who
were there were to tell what they were told by him, he might be
shown up as a charlatan and snake oil salesman. After all, he
claims to have repeatedly been aboard spacecraft with his space
friends, or so people who say they have wised up to Greer tell
me! But, those who know him and have talked to me say they don't
believe a word of his reportedly self-aggrandizing claims.

So, takers of his offer must fork out a donation of "a minimum
$600 to the Disclosure Project" and sign a non-disclosure
statement!

Shouldn't it be paid to the Non-Disclosure Project?!!! - instead
of to the Disclosure Project? :-o

And Greer's a doctor? Some might wonder whether medical training
could have enabled him to realize that there are people out
there with less brains than money.


Ray Stanford








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                 Re: 'The Truth' According To Greer - Ledger

From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 19:41:17 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 09:09:25 -0500
Subject: Re: 'The Truth' According To Greer - Ledger


>From: Wendy Connors <fadeddiscs.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 19:58:41 -0700
>Subject: Re: 'The Truth' According To Greer

><snip>

>>THE TRUTH

>>(THE POWER ELITES DON'T WANT YOU TO KNOW)

>>You are invited to spend 5 days with Dr. Greer at his farm in
>>Virginia to hear what he has learned after 14 years of
>>investigations

>Greeristic. Moniker assigned to the gullible crowds who allow their
>pockets to be picked with promises of enlightened truth...

You sure you don't mean "lightened" Wendy? Meaning your pocket
book or wallet lightened to the tune of 600 bucks.

Geez, I've got a nice place in the country. Maybe I should try
that.


Don Ledger







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                        Re: UFO Magazine UK - Gevaerd

From: A. J. Gevaerd - Revista UFO <gevaerd.nul>
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 21:22:44 -0300
Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 09:17:42 -0500
Subject: Re: UFO Magazine UK - Gevaerd


>From: Diane Harrison <auforn.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 20:56:23 +1000
>Subject: Re: UFO Magazine UK

>>From: A. J. Gevaerd - Revista UFO <gevaerd.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 07:27:48 -0300
>>Subject: UFO Magazine UK

<snip>

>>I am terribly sorry to hear about UFO Magazine UK's demise. But
>>not surprised.

<snip>

>>Well, with these lines I intended to tell to you all, wherever
>>you live and whatever you do in and around Ufology, that the
>>idea of launching and keeping a UFO magazine is hardly a
>>profitable business. It is barely a business. Rather, it is more
>>like a passion that you have to work out, no matter what. Graham
>>did so, working madly to keep the magazine running, day and
>>night, seven days a week, with the help of his family - as do I.
>>His life project is my life project, and as long as I am alive,
>>Brazilian UFO Magazine will be running. After I die, I do not
>>know.....

>Well said AJ

>Helen Christine remember this, "you can't please everyone, and I
>and Robert thank you for the bottom of our hearts for trying.

Hello, Diane.

Nice words those of yours. Thanks.

I have been in touch with Helen and can understand what she,
Louise and Christine are going through. I have kids (well, a 17-
year old girl and a 21-year old boy are still kids) of my own
and I wonder how would they work things out with the Brazilian
UFO Magazine when I am gone. I doubt they will be able to keep
it. It is not their life's project.

This very afternoon I just finished editing the April issue -
 #98. We are quickly getting to edition #100, after almost 20
years of hard - really hard - work. UFO #98 took 17 days,
14-16 hours per day, to get ready. It is indeed a very tiring
job. But it was worth every minute and every byte on my computer
to get to the final version.

In 2 weeks the edition will be out and spread all over Brazil,
in 2,200 news stand with aprint run of 44 thousand icopies.
Portugal will get 2,000. As in previous months, we will get
thousands of visits to our website and hundreds of messages. We
get an average of 8,000 hits per day and 200 messages.

It is exciting to do something that can be seen by thousands of
people. An average of 80 people contribute, one way or another,
to every edition, to get to the final product. It is exciting
that thousands of people will learn more about the UFO Phenomena
through this work. This is what counts. This is the real thing.


Keep it up,

A. J.








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   Mar > Mar 18

               Scientist Creates Roswell UFO Metal - Crockett

From: Josh Crockett <thirdeyeching.nul>
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 19:54:06 EST
Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 09:19:14 -0500
Subject: Scientist Creates Roswell UFO Metal - Crockett


Witnesses who found the debris from the Roswell, New Mexico UFO
crash in 1947 reported seeing metal as thin as the silver foil
from a cigarette pack that nonetheless could not be pierced by a
bullet. Now Discover Magazine reports that scientists have
created what sounds like the same thing.

Brad Lemley writes in the April issue of Discover about a metal
strip as thin as aluminum foil that cannot be even be severed by
wire cutters. When a steel ball is dropped onto it, the ball
bounces back and will not go through it.

Lemley writes, "It's all astounding, yet oddly familiar. In the
typical science fiction film circa 1950, there's that scene in
which scientists return from the just-landed flying saucer and
tell the Army brass that no tool known to humankind an cut,
burn, bend or otherwise scar the hull. But the metal in front of
me is decidedly terrestrial in origin=E2=80=94it was developed in
Pasadena=E2=80=A6

"It's called metallic glass, or amorphous metal, and it appears
to be nothing less than an entirely new class of material that
can be used to build lighter, stronger versions of anything."
Amorphous metal is made by rearranging the atoms in metal so
they react differently to heat. William Johnson, who helped
discover it, says, "This is the structural material of the
future." Was it also the structural material of the past for
another civilization?

A strange type of foam, made up of magnesium and bismuth, with
gaps between elements which do not reveal how they are
sandwiched together, was also found at Roswell. Johnson says, "A
sandwich made of two thin sheets of amorphous metal flanking
amorphous foam would be strong, light, insulating fireproof,
bug-proof, rustproof, sound dampening, and difficult to
penetrate with bombs."

Sources:

http://www.unknowncountry.com/news/?id=3D3635

http://www.discover.com/issues/apr-04/features/glassy-metals/?page=3D2







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                 Re: 'The Truth' According To Greer - Boone

From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 20:11:02 EST
Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 09:20:12 -0500
Subject: Re: 'The Truth' According To Greer - Boone


>Source: CSETI

>http://www.cseti.org/programs/bookdictation2004.htm

>THE TRUTH

>(THE POWER ELITES DON'T WANT YOU TO KNOW)

>You are invited to spend 5 days with Dr. Greer at his farm in
>Virginia to hear what he has learned after 14 years of
>investigations


>Start Date/Time: Sunday April 18, 2004 6 pm

>End Date/Time: Thursday, April 22, 2004 midnight

>Limited to 15 people, this unique event will be an oral
>presentation of the unvarnished truth. Designed to be the core
>of Dr. Greer's next book, at these presentations you will be
>privy to what really happens behind the scenes and to how the
>world's evolution has been hijacked for nearly a century by
>craven power interests.

Okay, now I'm scared.


Greg








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             Re: A Movie Musical About Ufos And Aliens! - Boone

From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 20:31:58 EST
Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 09:22:01 -0500
Subject: Re: A Movie Musical About Ufos And Aliens! - Boone


>From: Chris Rutkowski <rutkows.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 14:33:03 -0600
>Subject: A Movie Musical About Ufos And Aliens!


>17 March 2004

>Yesterday, I was walking outside a small strip mall when I
>passed a video store. Having a few minutes to kill, I went in
>and browsed the racks. I soon realized that about half of the
>titles in the store were East Indian movies, nearly all in Hindi
>or Punjabi. This was a Bollywood goldmine, to be sure. I
>casually surveyed the titles and then saw, exactly at eye level,
>on the "New Titles" display, the DVD box titled "Koi...Mil
>Gaya."

Now I'm really-really scared.


Best,

Greg








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                 'The Mythologist' AKA Armen Victorian/Henry

From: Joe McGonagle <joe.mcgonagle.nul>
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 1:38:15 +0000
Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 09:23:27 -0500
Subject: 'The Mythologist' AKA Armen Victorian/Henry


John Lundberg emailed me to say that "The Mythologist", a
documentary film which he directed about Henry Azadehdel aka
Armen Victorian will be broadcast in the UK on BBC4 at 10:40pm
next Thursday 25th March. This should be a fascinating
programme, If you have the opportunity to see it then don't pass
it up!

More details, including short clips from the film and details of
some of the people that appear on it or were involved in it's
production can be found at:

http://www.mythologist.co.uk


Joe








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   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   Mar > Mar 18

             Re: New Zealander First To Explain UFOs - Stanford

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 22:43:01 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 09:34:17 -0500
Subject: Re: New Zealander First To Explain UFOs - Stanford


>From: Rod Brock <humble98225.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 23:46:01 -0800 (PST)
>Subject: Re: New Zealander First To Explain UFOs

>>From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>To: - UFO UpDates Subscribers - ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 19:05:50 -0500
>>Subject: New Zealander First To Explain UFOs

>>Source: Scoop - New Zealand

>>http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/SC0403/S00064.htm

>>17 March 2004

>>PRESS RELEASE:

>>New Zealander First To Explain UFOs

>Mr. Coleman's ideas have made the rounds on this list at least
>once before; however, the scope of phenomena that Coleman
>purports to explain with this "unified" theory is even more
>grand (or perhaps I should say "grandiose") than before.
>"Unified theories" of UFOs are tiresome enough, in and of
>themselves; throwing several species of "nocturnal lights" into
>the mix just adds insult to injury.

Amen.

<snip>

>The simple fact that his "theory" requires that fuel be picked
>up by the vortice (e.g., gasoline, naptha, whatever), allows us
>to see that a relatively rare concurrence of situations would be
>necessary to create such vortice fireballs - that is, the
>vortice must contact a fuel source EACH and EVERY time that a
>fireball manifests. How then, does this vortice phenomenon
>measure up against hundreds, if not thousands of NL cases
>predating the 20th century?

Elementary, my dear Watson: before the 20th century, huge herds
of buffalo ate too much clover and, well, life was a real
'gasser'. :)

>Indeed, how does it account for all
>the anomalous "orb" observations at the Yakima Indian
>reservation, alone?

Driven to poverty by reservation conditions, the Yakima were
living off beans? :-o

>What it comes down to is this: I'm not saying vortice-related
>fireballs don't happen; I think they may happen, especially in
>tornadic vortice breakdown (where you have the added "oomph" of
>a tornado ripping up a gas line) But as a "unified" theory of
>"nocturnal lights," Coleman's idea is practically worthless.

Yes, and I would go one step farther and declare that it
'smells' suspiciously of 'intellectual flatulence'.

:)
Ray Stanford

"You know my method. It is founded upon the observance of
trifles." -- Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery








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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   Mar > Mar 18

                 New? Report Of 1947 6-7 Disc-Shaped Objects

From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO <hbccufo.nul>
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 20:47:26 -0800
Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 10:17:09 -0500
Subject: New? Report Of 1947 6-7 Disc-Shaped Objects


Saranac Lake N.Y.

Date of Sighting: 1947 - August
Time of Sighting: app. 10 PM
Location of Sighting: Saranac Lake N.Y.
Number of witnesses: 5-6
Number of objects: 6-7
Shape of objects: Disc shaped

Full Description of event/sighting:

I was about 4 years old, were at our cabin in the Adirondacks
and several neighbours were visiting us as we just arrived for
our summer vacation.

As I was young I was put to bed earlier but was listening to the
adults talking in the living room. We had no electricity or
running water, so when I wanted to go to the toilet, which was an
outhouse in the corner of the shedl my father escorted me to the
shed and went back inside the cabin door to get away from the
mosquitoes where he could still see the shed.

While in the outhouse every minute or so I could hear a whirring
from far away getting nearer then going away. When I ran back
inside the cabin and told my father he said it was probably just
an owl or other creature.

A few minutes later all the adults were outside the back door as
someone had gone to the outhouse and saw this disc-shaped
object, which seemed to be slightly lit up and making a whirring
sound, coming into view from the south, passing almost overhead
and disappearing around Mount Baker.

I sneaked out and actually saw one, (one passed every minute or
so) before I got caught and was sent back in. We had an old
battery radio (tube) and when listening to the local news the
next day we heard several reports of the same sighting from the
village.

---

Thank you to the witness for sending in this interesting report.

Brian Vike, Director
HBCC UFO Research
Home - Phone 250 845 2189
email: hbccufo.nul
Website: http://www.hbccufo.com







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   Mar > Mar 18

                           Filers Files #13 - 2004

From: George A. Filer <Majorstar.nul>
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 14:09:44 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 10:31:16 -0500
Subject: Filers Files #13 - 2004


Filers Files #13 - 2004 Skywatch Investigations
George A. Filer, Director MUFON Eastern
March 17, 2004

Webmaster: Chuck Warren

My website: www.georgefiler.com/


Was Earth a Colony of Mars?

The Filer Research Institute is dedicated to finding evidence
for extraterrestrial life in the universe and for providing
reports of these encounters. Dr. Gilbert Levin says Viking
Lander Found Life on Mars, More Mars Symbols Found by Expert in
Israel, Dr. Johnstone's Living Blueberry Analysis, Rovers Take
Images of UFOs, "Meteorite Yields Evidence of Primitive Life On
Early Mars, New Jersey =96 Elongated Disc UFO, Tennessee =96 Family
Sees Flying Saucers, Missouri -Orange Spheres, Iowa - Flying
Saucer and Red Marks, Missouri -Orange Spheres, Washington
=96Investigation of Entity Pulls Man From Trailer, Hawaii -
 Distant Moving Star, Canada =96 Bright Ring of Red Lights,
UK/Scotland - Disk Seen for Several Nights, England - Diamond
Hovers, Sweden =96 Fast Moving Lights, and New Zealand - Nine
Orange lights Head Out To Sea

Dr. Gilbert Levin Says Viking Found Life on Mars

Monday, I spoke with Dr. Gilbert Levin who designed the Viking
laboratories tests for life on Mars. He stated, "Mars has life
and for some reason JPL seems to have a closed mind on the
subject." Why is the NASA scientific community blatantly
ignoring the crucial scientific data to support Mars life? It
may be the result of a Brookings Institute report that the
discovery of intelligent life could cause a world wide crisis.

In 1997, Biospherics' President and CEO, Dr. Gilbert V. Levin,
announced his new conclusion that his 1976 Viking Labeled
Release (LR) life detection experiment found living
microorganisms in the soil of Mars. Objective application of the
scientific process to 21 years of continued research and to new
developments on Mars and Earth forced this conclusion. Of all
the many hypotheses offered over the years to explain the LR
Mars results, the only possibility fitting all the relevant data
is that microbial life exists in the top layer of the Martian
surface.

Dr. Levin was hired by NASA to develop a laboratory to prove
that life exists. He designed experiments that tested the soil
of Mars nine times at two different landing sites under
different temperature regimes and environmental conditions. All
his data point to microbes metabolizing a nutrient solution and
giving off an indicative radioactive CO2 gas. The tests
conducted on Mars were positive indicating life, but were not
accepted. Dr Levin states, "We have waited ten years for all of
the theories, experiments and results produced by the many
scientists investigating our experiment to be reviewed before
voicing a committed conclusion of our own. After examining these
efforts in great detail, and after years of laboratory work
trying to duplicate our Mars data by non-biological means, we
find that the preponderance of scientific analysis makes it more
probable than not that living organisms were detected in the LR
experiment on Mars.

This is not presented as an opinion, but as a position dictated
by the objective evaluation of all relevant scientific data. In
conclusion, then, we submit that this real possibility for
Martian biology should be an important - even dominant -
consideration in the future exploration of Mars. This clearly
is not the case at the present time, according to published NASA
plans for continuing the unmanned exploration of Mars which
neglect the biology issue. The search for life on Mars, when
evidence for its possible existence offers such important
potential, should have much greater significance for the
planning of such missions." Thanks to Dr. Gilbert Levin.

Was Earth a Colony of Mars?

The evidence for life on Mars is accumulating each day and
indicates its civilization is much older than ours. My analysis
was based on twenty years experience as a flier, an intelligence
officer and as a photo interpreter. Additionally, I have input
from an experienced group of researchers and professional
photographers and scientists. When photographic evidence
suggested we had found potential Air Force targets, I would
launch aircraft to obtain higher quality images. "I wish I could
launch missions on interesting targets on Mars for high
resolution images!" We thank JPL for making the evidence
available from satellite, rover, and microscopic images that to
us indicates life exists on the planet Mars. Unfortunately, due
to the limitations on our web site and in sending data, I can
not provide our readers with the same quality of images we are
using for analysis.

We encourage you to visit the JPL web site at:

http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/

and check out the artifacts for yourself. The Spirit Rover
landed in the Gusev crater and in our opinion struck an ancient
city or temple site on Mars that we have nicknamed "Gavesak"
based on some of the letters or symbols we have found. The area
is covered with millions of rocks laying in the soil that were
once part of this city that included stone carvings, symbols and
sculpted faces. Although it is difficult to determine a date
this happened based on the slim evidence, all indications are
that the blast occurred thousands, if not millions of years ago.
The main Gusev crater is estimated to be almost four billion
years old when reptiles were beginning on Earth. We just located
a #3 and #4 some other writing on two center rocks. I, also,
located a 'Sv' mark on a large rock taken from the Mars
Pathfinder landing site showing the sojourner rover in 1997.

I also just located an 'A' and a 'V' on different rocks, also
the number '17'on a rock, although this may represent a symbol
'LI' upside down. http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/

2/p/061/2P131778439EFF1159P2212R2M1.JPG

Our experts in various life sciences are finding strong evidence
of life. Below are some of our findings. Evidence of vegetation
including trees, water, lichen and fossils indicating marine
life and cynobacteria is evident. Since there are no means for
testing for life on the rovers, photo interpretation becomes
paramount. Many microscopic images from Opportunity Rover appear
as bioenous sediments that argeological terms as "foraminiferal
ooze" that are essentially marine sediments from the bottom of
large bodies of water.

http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/2/p/061/2P131775136EFF1159P2214L5=
M1.JPG

Did Noah Come From Mars?

We can speculate that Mars gained intelligent life far in
advance of Earth. A sophisticated society was formed not unlike
Earth today, but a terrible disaster apparently occurred.
Asteroids with the force of many nuclear weapons apparently
exploded destroying many areas of the planet. The remaining
inhabitants probably chose several courses of action. Many went
underground to live, some may have built space ships and headed
for Earth.

The story of Noah and the carrying of animals may have been an
allegory of a space ship bringing animals here. Note: Humanoid
anomaly at top left. Image was found by Norman Breyden. We have
located an image of a humanoid being we're calling 'Noah' that
is next to a large crater. At his feet there is an apparent line
of writing to the right of the prominent crater. This image
indicates the intelligence had built a message for posterity. We
are attempting to decipher. Unfortunately, our consultant in
ancient languages Mario Pazzaglini, Ph.D. has passed away.

Life is likely to follow a pattern of migration through the
galaxy. K. E. Tsilkovsky said that colonization and not
evolution, may be the major factor in the spread of life in the
universe." The gravity on Mars is much less than Earth's and
interplanetary flight distorting the gravitational field would
have been much easier for them. If intelligent life forms
migrate to new worlds, such as traveling the 140 million miles
from Mars, it would be logical to take seeds, plants and animals
to start basic agriculture. On Earth many basic foodstuffs,
grains and some domestic cattle have no traceable wild ancestry.
Such ancestry may have been brought to Earth from Mars. The
beginning of Earth's agriculture occurred about ten thousand
years ago in what now is northern Iraq when wheat was first
cultivated in the Neolithic Revolution. There are many symbols
on Mars of life forms. Many can be seen on my website.

More Mars Symbols Found by Expert in Israel

Daniel L. Levy writes, "The magnificent color picture you sent
me was unfortunately too small for the "E" to be clearly
visible. I did, however, finally find 13 views of your boulder
(with these stunning hills behind it!) that were taken by
Spirit's pancam on Sol 44. While searching, I found a similar
rock, that not only has an "E", but also a stylized Hebraic
"Shin", the power symbol of, well, Adonai-Zebaot Himself!.

http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/2/n/051/2N130887058EFF10AGP1868L0=
M1.JPG

taken by the navcam on sol 51: However, in the next picture,
taken by the navcam's right "eye", only the Shin remains
somewhat visible. These photos, apart from their stark beauty,
do not, in my opinion, enable a clear-cut conclusion as to
whether these boulders have been carved with letters, or if they
just exhibit random natural shapes.

On Spirit sol 65, I found an artifact which cannot by any means
be explained away as a random basalt feature. This is a jaw-
dropping, unarguably nonrandom shape! Please, also, take a look
at the microscopic camera views that were made of this
intriguing, artificial-looking object. I have a degree in
Agriculture, and I'm trained as a field zoologist and as a
microbiologist, and my weapon of choice is the microscope. I,
also, took some Geology in my time, and my father and I+ used to
be keen rockhunters. Keep up the good work! Thanks to Daniel L.
Levy.

Caution From a Professional Sculptor

Mr. Kim Shaffer a professional sculptor writes, "As somewhat of
an expert, qualified because I have probably searched for,
carried, cleaved and cut more terrestrial 'rocks' than anyone
alive, I offer these points of possible explanation". I have for
28 years been a sculptor, working in natural stones and have
very many times, found stone, in situ, having strange
characteristics. Some will have almost face-like areas, some
will have fractures or almost geometric patterns from impact
fracturing or natural abrasion. I have noticed that the harder
the stone, the more bizarre the patterns. When I cleave or split
hard stone very often there are almost "letter-like "or "face
like" features in the stone.

One final point, the face on the mars rock is in a recess and on
a fracture line, with the rest of the surface of that rock in a
rough unaltered state. I, as a sculptor, would not go to the
massive effort to carve a face on a stone without altering any
other parts of the stone's surface, nor could I do so. I am not
saying your assumptions are wrong, you may be 100% right, but
there are other possibilites. Thank you for introducing a
subject that we can all debate and enjoy. Mr Kim Shaffer Asst
State Director, MUFON of Tennessee

Mars =96 Catch Basins and Dams and Mars

Inspection Engineer John E. Combest writes, "My transmittal of
the annotated photos covering the Mars photo of a Lake-with-
artificial-Dam was delayed because its original size -
 transmittal of the 7.64MB photos was too large to be permitted
by my internet provider. Therefore - lacking any software by
which I could reduce the pixel count - I resorted to "print
screen" tactics to reproduce the document so that it now
consists of two photos with a total size of about 1.4 MB. Photo
#1 includes what appears to be a dry lake bed with an artificial
dam, and several smaller catch basins with the same type dam
constructed to catch runoff from an area of deep ravines. The
previous sent photos of the Square Building and other structures
at coordinates 42S-158W is about 300 miles from this Lake scene
at coordinates 39S -166W. If both photos had the same
resolution, then it may be that the main Lake Dam may be several
hundred of feet in length with a height of perhaps 40 feet.
http://space.com/scienceastronomy/mars_earth_040311.html

Editors Note - To send high resolution photos by email is
difficult or even to put them in full resolution on my web site
is very expensive. However, these photos infer intelligent life
on Mars has been building dams and attempting to preserve and
transport water.

Living "Blueberries"

Dr. Annamarie Johnestone writes, "Conclusions from an experiment
on the Mars Viking Landau Mission, as well as additional
experiments in similar earth environments since1976, offer proof
that "blueberries" photographed by Mars Opportunity Rover are
lichens (a fungal sheath enveloping cyanobacteria or primitive
algae). In Antarctica, endolithic (living in rock) bacteria,
algae, lichens and fungi have been found alive inside of rock
surfaces, to a depth of 1.5 cm. Like organisms have been
photographed by the Opportunity Rover, in particular,
"Blueberries" (lichens), in and on the Mars rocks. Lichens are
known to photosynthesize and grow in water vapor, as a sole
source of water. Using infra red instruments, Anderson and Tice
(1979) describe a hydrosphere at the Viking Lander site that
they believe could support endolithic growth. Water vapor
measured 50 precipitable microns at the surface of Mars. As
well, lichens have all the characteristics necessary to live in
the harsh Martian environment above the rock surface. In extreme
temperatures of hot or cold, with only absorbed water vapor,
lichens can withstand desiccation from wind and ultra violet
radiation. Color photos from Viking Lander, displaying yellow
and green patches that change color patterns with time, were
observed to be similar to lichens on rocks, according to Levin
and Straat (1988). e photos were computer analyzed for
verification.

In my opinion, it is very unlikely, that inorganic substances
would display like cyclic change. A changing pattern indicates
living organisms. I observed that "blueberries" present in many
Mars Rover photos were elevated above the rock surfaces. Some
lichen species attach to rocks with a tube-like structure that
absorbs and transports inorganic nutrients from the rock to the
lichen's interior, algal-like, microbe component. Fungal acid
excreted through the tube disintegrates the rock to facilitate
the absorption process. Elevation of the exposed "blueberries"
indicates an organic structure rather than an inorganic
substance. Meteorites from Mars, analyzed by JPL and NASA,
contained organic compounds (polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons)
and fossilized primitive cells, according to Hartsfield and
Salsbury (1996). Organic compounds are products of oxygen
photosynthesizing bacteria and plants. Regrettably, the Mars
Rover is not equipt to analyze organic substances. On earth,
lichens are an indicator of clean air, as they flourish in an
unpolluted atmosphere and diminish or disappear in polluted
industrial areas. If there is a significant, living population
of lichens on Mars, as displayed in large changing color
patches, it would indicate that the atmosphere on Mars is not
polluted.

Observing the sky with the green filter of its panoramic camera,
the Mars Exploration Rover Spirit came across a surprise: a
streak across the sky. The streak, seen in the middle of this
mosaic of images taken by the navigation and panoramic cameras,
was probably the brightest object in the sky at the time.
Scientists theorize that the mystery line could be either a
meteorite or one of seven out-of-commission spacecraft still
orbiting Mars. Because the object appeared to move 4 degrees of
an arc in 15 seconds it is probably not the Russian probes Mars
2, Mars 3, Mars 5, or Phobos 2; or the American probes Mariner 9
or Viking 1. That leaves Viking 2, which has a polar orbit that
would fit with the north-south orientation of the streak. In
addition, only Viking 1 and 2 were left in orbits that could
produce motion as fast as that seen by Spirit. Said Mark Lemmon,
a rover team member from Texas A&M University, Texas, "Is this
the first image of a meteor on Mars, or an image of a spacecraft
sent from another world during the dawn of our robotic space
exploration program? We may never know, but we are still looking
for clues." picture

http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/press/spirit/20040311a/12-ml-03-strea=
 k-A067R1.jpg

Object appears to change shape at bottom right time image. This
does not seem to be caused by camera angle. Thanks to Norman
Breyden


ROVER FINDS EVIDENCE OF WATER

"One of NASA's robotic rovers has found evidence that parts of
Mars was once soaked with enough water to sustain life",
scientists said Tuesday, March 2, 2004. "'Opportunity has landed
in an area of Mars where water once drenched the surface," said
Ed Weiler, a NASA space science administrator.

Meteorite Yields Evidence Bacteria On Mars-

News Release NASA: 96-160, August 1996 James Hartfield (Johnson
Space Center) David Salsbury (Stanford University) Excerpt:: The
NASA-funded team found the first organic molecules thought to be
of Martian origin: several mineral features characteristic of
biologic activity; and possible microscopic fossils of
primitive, bacteria-like organisms, inside of a Mars rock that
fell to earth as a meteorite. The journal Science, reports the
compounds they elicited from the meteorites found in Antarctica,
were directly associated with fossil-like structures and
carbonate globules in the rocks.

Life Once Existed On Mars

Journal of Microscopy claims Australian scientists believe they
have found evidence that life once existed on Mars. They have
found that microscopic fossils of primitive bacteria-like
organisms in a Mars meteorite match characteristics of bacteria
found in mud in Queensland. Dr. Taylor says he has found enough
evidence of life on Mars to warrant a manned mission to the red
planet, and that more samples must be collected from Mars for
further investigation..
http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/s1033640.htm

Rover Takes Images of UFOs

Robert Roy Britt reports that on March 11, 2004, the Spirit
rover took the first picture of Earth ever made from the surface
of another planet. It, also, spotted what could be a Viking
Orbiter spacecraft or a meteor - scientists aren't sure which.
The photo of Earth shows the planet as a bright dot above the
horizon. Another sky photo from Spirit shows a thin and short
streak of light. "That streak could have been a meteor," Lemmon
said. Or it could have been the Viking Orbiter 2, still circling
Mars long after its 1970s mission ended. Lemmon said the other
nine spacecraft currently orbiting Mars - three of which are
presently in working order - have known positions and did not
create the streak.

Editor's Note: It could, also, have been one of the UFOs that
are periodically imaged by Mars satellites.

New Jersey =96 Elongated Disc UFO

Morestown =96 Frankie V reports seeing a UFO for over twenty
minutes near Route 295 a few miles east of Philadelphia on March
11, 2004. Several aircraft were also seen passing over the UFO
that was hovering or moving very slowly as it flew around the
area. The craft was a metallic gray color that would change to
red and return to gray. The red color may have been caused by
the sun reflecting off its surface in the bright sunny sky at
3:40 PM. Frankie V has his radio show and had never seen a UFO
before. The craft hovered and then climbed almost straight up to
an estimated 35, 0000 feet. It just stayed in this position
looking like a bright star in the sunny sky. Thanks Frankie V at
www.frankievradioshow.com

Tennessee =96 Family Sees Flying Saucers

KINGSPORT - At 5:30 PM, on February 29, 2004, several children
saw flying saucers in the sky and pointed them out to five
credible adult witnesses. The objects were of various shapes and
color and rising vertically and interacting with each other. The
objects were described as being four small "lights" which were
moving to form various geometric patterns around a large, highly
visible golden colored disc. Some of the smaller objects would
actually circle and touch the large disc, then move away. One
adult witness has taken several pictures with a cheap digital
camera but none were helpful for analysis by Jeff Sainio. These
objects finally ascended in the blue sky until they were no
longer visible.

The adult witnesses shocked, kept watching the sky, then two
cylinder shaped objects crossed the sky at a very high speed.
These were described as white, rectangular and at a very high
altitude. The witnesses were told by the FAA office to notify me
and I was contacted on March 1st by two witnesses at which time
I was given the photographs. I sent these to Jeff Sainio, who
let me know that due to the digital format, the pictures were
useless for analysis. . Thanks to: Kim Shaffer Asst State
Director, MUFON TN.

Missouri -Orange Spheres

ANNAPOLIS =96 Two brothers were driving on Champion Springs Ranch
road on the evening of February 10, 2004, at around 7 PM, near
Black River when they saw five very brightly shining orange
sphere's in the sky. At first they shot around like the balls
that shoot out of Roman candle fireworks. They then began to fly
in V formation like a flock of geese. This was in a wooded area
and at times the light from the spheres would shine across the
tops of the tree's. After the spheres vanished, I saw several
blinking lights in the sky that looked like airplanes. Then, we
heard very loud booms in the sky, like a sonic boom. I later
spoke to the owner of the ranch who told us she saw the spheres
as well and that she had seen them on other occasions. Thanks to
Peter Davenport UFOcenter

Iowa - Flying Saucer and Red Marks

SIOUX CITY =96 A group of friends were camping and went walking by
the creek on February 27, 2004, at 5:30 PM, and saw a red flash
of light to the west. They started walking towards it. I looked
at my watch and it read 3:11 AM. Then, there was another red
flash of light, and my watch then read 3:31. We were a little
freaked out, so we went back to the tent, where we saw that one
of my friends had several red dots on his back that looked
almost like mosquitoes bites. We, then, discovered that we all
had several of these "dots". That night I had a strange dream
about being brought on a saucer shaped ship. The next morning,
all my friends had had the same exact dream. ((NUFORC Note:
Witness asserts that he has photos of the wounds. Witness
describes self as a journalist. PD))

California =96 Hovering Object Over Disneyland

ANAHEIM - On March 1, 2004, two witnesses noticed a black
roundish object that was hovering above the Disneyland hotel at
10:50 AM. There were no lights or sounds from the object and
there were no surface features noticeable, and it was an
overcast day and the object appeared high and not very large. At
first we thought in might be a Mickey Mouse balloon because it
seemed to change shape slightly as it floated. After about a
minute it started floating to the south very slowly but it
didn't quite behave like a balloon. It's movements were a
strange kind of slow bobbing and it was moving in the opposite
direction of the wind. After five minutes of this, the object
changed from a round shape to strait as an arrow and shot off to
the east at a very high speed. It was out of sight in a couple
of seconds. It still made no sound as it moved away fast. Thanks
to Peter Davenport

Washington =96 Entity Pulls Man From Trailer

EATONVILLE --On December 26, 2003, just before midnight. D.H.
age 41 was awakened in his travel trailer and clearly saw a red
orb three inches in diameter floating around. The baseball size
red ball had a two inch red mist around it, so its total
diameter was about five inches. Although the red light was
'hazy' it lit up the entire interior compartment of the trailer.
"It was an extremely bright light hovering in the same spot," he
said. He leaned up on his right elbow very slowly and the light
moved about a half an inch further inside the trailer and then
bolted out the door. D. H. was unaware until that moment that
the trailer door was open. He always closes and locks that door.
The door slammed behind the light. He awoke that morning with a
good sized bump on the back on his head. Yet, he felt better
than he had in months.

The door trim on the floor had a one-and-a-half inch outward
dent in it. The next night he closed his eyes for a minute and
had a flashback of someone pulling him by his ankles out of his
bed. All of the covers had been removed from his body and he was
terrified as he was being dragged feet-first by two hands from
his bed and through the trailer door. The dent was probably
caused by his head striking the trim. "Later he remembered a
large dark gray face about two feet away with thin arms, he saw
no ears, mouth, hair or nose. Joe Ryan (co-investigator) and I
have both interviewed D.H. He does not drink, use drugs, and has
no history of mental illness. He is very frightened and does not
even want to discuss the case. Thanks to William Puckett, UFOs
Northwest, CA

Hawaii - Distant Moving Star

KEAAU =96 The witness got his coffee at 5:30 PM, and looked at a
star filled sky on February 27, 2004, and sat down to enjoy the
beauty or the stars, and noticed one was moving. It flew east
and was a medium size star, but it just kept moving and I had to
get up and go to the other side of house to follow it. There was
no sound, and it seemed to be very high up in the atmosphere.
Although it seemed to slow down a times, its path seemed to be
fairly straight in the late afternoon sky.

Thanks to Peter Davenport UFOcenter

Canada =96 Bright Ring of Red Lights

DECKER LAKE - On March 12, 2004, a very unusual object was seen
in the night sky for ten minutes before it moved away at10:30
PM. The object seen was extremely bright white with a ring of
red lights around the middle. Investigator Brian Vike HBCC
called the local airport and no known aircraft was flying.
Witnesses watched a large object skimming over the water on
Francois Lake that was silent and glowing. Other strange white
objects were making fantastic maneuvers dropping down behind the
mountains in the Grassy Plains area where there have been cattle
mutations. Also, strange creatures are being reported from our
native people. Canadian Search and Rescue Buffalo aircraft have
been flying late at night over Francois Lake. Some of these
witnesses made enquiries as to why the aircraft were there, but
the crews would not reveal why they were flying in the area.
Thanks to Brian Vike, Director CANADA HBCC Research

UK/Scotland - Disk Seen for Several Nights

PAISLEY - A graphic communication student at Napier University
in Edinburgh states that on the night of February 23, 2004, he
noticed an unusual set of hovering lights high in the sky. His
brother (12) confirmed the sighting. The object consisted of a
flickering bright white light that spanned the breadth of the
object, with blue and red flashing lights. The next night at
10:20 PM, the same light pattern was seen again. There was no
directional movement but the object was bigger than before,
indicating it was a bit nearer this time. On Wednesday, I was
working at the Burger King, and again saw a similar formation of
lights much clearer than before, but there was no significant
motion. My two workers looked and both agreed there was the
white light spanning the breadth with red and blue flashing
lights, but immediately dismissed it as a plane. Ten minutes
later it was still there and they said "Ha-ha do you think it's
a UFO? Later that night when I got home Mom and another brother
(18) came to look. We all looked through a monocular and the UFO
had a saucer shape with a white light round the rim, red and
some blue flashing lights. This night it was in a different part
of the sky. Thanks to Peter Davenport UFOcenter

England - Diamond Hovers

BLACKBURN --The object was cigar shaped flying in the very pale
blue sky on February 23, 2004, at 1:45 PM. Sometimes the object
would look black next to the brightness of the sky and as it
flew it appeared metallic. The object was silent and didn't
appear to be moving from side to side but moved very slowly in a
circular way as if pivoted in the middle. It's hard to explain
really, because of the strange shape, sometimes it would appear
like a rod but as it moved around you could only see one end of
the rod, so then it would appear small and circular. It wasn't
actually changing shape but it seemed that way due to the smooth
movements it was making. Thanks to Peter Davenport UFOcenter

Sweden =96 Fast Moving Lights

KISTA - On February 11, 2004, two girls who are 17 and 18 years
old students saw five strong bright lights at around 10 PM, the
colors were yellow, blue and red. The shape was different from
craft to craft although most were round. They suddenly appeared
and just stopped for two seconds and then started climbing
higher in the sky ten times faster than any aircraft. At first,
there were five and then they became 18 heading up. ((NUFORC
Note: Report appears to have been submitted from Sweden. PD))
UFOcenter

New Zealand - Nine Orange lights Head Out To Sea

MATAURI BAY - My wife and I were walking along the beach on
February 21, 2004, at 9 PM, when we saw an orange light appear
from behind a hill near Kerikeri. The light was circular and
moving quite quickly. It was not an aircraft as it had no
navigation lights, beacon or strobe light. After thirty seconds
another orange light appeared. Then more appeared as we counted
nine lights flying from beyond the hill at regular intervals and
headed northwest out to sea. The lights stayed the same orange
color while we watched them. Eventually, we could see all nine
outlined against the stars as they eventually disappeared.
Thanks to Peter Davenport UFOcenter

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   Mar > Mar 18

                        No Flow Of Gulf Breeze Money

From: Robert Gates <RGates8254.nul>
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 23:51:09 EST
Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 10:42:03 -0500
Subject: No Flow Of Gulf Breeze Money


Bottom Line Of The No Flow Of Gulf Breeze Money

As this issue has been batted around a lot, I would like to
share with the List the results of my inquiries.

The issue was raised by Jerry Black who (based upon tales and
stories allegedly told by Rex Salisbury, Vickie Lyons and
others) that Ed Walters sent a large bundle of cash to MUFON and
or FUFOR and that bundle (rumored to be 10 plus K)of cash was
passed to Bruce Maccabee to taint the results of the
investigation in favor of Ed Walters. I said "allegedly" because
somebody recently claimed that words had been put in Vickie
Lyons' mouth. In essence the allegation was that Ed Walters
channeled/funneled cash through MUFON to Bruce.

Keep in mind that Rex/Vickie and others telling the story appear
to come from the point of view of believing that Ed Walters
hoaxed the GB UFO, while MUFON and Bruce Maccabee concluded
entirely differently based upon their investigation.

Originally the other named UFO organization in the 'BG money
funnel allegations' was FUFOR, however as I recall, Richard Hall
wrote an e-mail to this List that demolished that money theory,
based upon his working with FUFOR. Jerry then concluded that
it was and had to be MUFON for various reasons. However, he was
not able to provide any proof at this point - no copies of tax
returns showing a large donation, not to mention any canceled
checks from Ed showing the large donation or anything else.
Apparently the basis for this was memory mining of Rex and
Rex's belief that it happened and that MUFON had to know.

I e-mailed some principles and asked questions and here is the
bottom line on this issue:

MUFON has no receipts of funds (such as the alleged huge
donation) paid to MUFON from Ed Walters. Apparently Ed Walters
did not pay or contribute to MUFON such rumored sums of money.
Nothing shows up in the MUFON tax returns. Point here - if
MUFON's annual income went up 20K, without a boost of
membership, that figure would show up in the tax returns.

Walt Andrus, who was director of MUFON then. When asked about a
monetary donation from Ed Walters to MUFON and/or him
personally, he emphatically said "NO!"

The MUFON records show some small dollar item in 1988 for a
water analysis, no expenditure in 1989, and another small dollar
item in 1990 for a site survey. The small dollar totaled less
then 250.00. They were described as correct and legitimate
expenses, paid from MUFON funds, as part of the investigation.

MUFON apparently doesn't have any information as to the
involvement (donations and/or expenditures) in Gulf Breeze by
other organizations.

So simply stated, there were no sums of money paid by Ed Walters
to MUFON, then given to Bruce Maccabee to tilt the investigation
in favor of Ed Walters.

So the bottom line on the alleged and talked about "flow of Gulf
Breeze money" is there was no flow. What we have here is another
jewel encrusted helmet story.


Cheers,

Robert








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             Re: UFO Magazine Folds After Editor's Death - Hale

From: Roy Hale <roy.nul>
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 05:58:33 -0000
Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 10:54:51 -0500
Subject: Re: UFO Magazine Folds After Editor's Death - Hale


>From: Joe McGonagle <joe.mcgonagle.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 09:57:52 -0000
>Subject: Re: UFO Magazine Folds After Editor's Death

>Roy stood on one leg, and repeated that amazing gymnastic
>ventriloquist trick which he is so adept at:

>Placing an entire foot in his mouth almost up to the knee-joint
>whilst speaking from a different part of his anatomy he said...

Hi,

I see you lost the argument on this one, insulting me does not
do you any favours, you are obviously well trained in the
'insult' tactic used by many people who wish to cover up their
embarassment of talking utter BS!

>I haven't stated an opinion, I stated a fact. If you are
>bringing opinions into the discussion they must therefore be
>your own. The fact that I stated (for at least the third time)
>is:

>"On the odd occasion when a magazine presents an article as
>research, the so-called research does not always stand up to
>scrutiny."

>If it were an opinion, the only counter-opinion could be that :

>"On the odd occasion when a magazine presents an article as
>research, the so-called research does always stand up to
>scrutiny."

>So, is that your opinion, or do you agree with my fact?

More gobbledegook, I don't agree with any aspect of your
argument, your facts are for you and your own mind.

>I know what your problem is - something does sound like a joke
>at:

>http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2003/nov/m13-005.shtml

>and it isn't FSR. You don't like to acknowledge that you made a
>fool of yourself, so you are trying to make it appear that my
>remarks were deriding FSR. Go on, admit it!

No, you simply do not like being pulled up about the foot in
mouth rant, when you said "I mean the really unexplained and
thoroughly investigated ones, not just stories that you read in
FSR/UFO magazine/Junior Sc-fi weekly" Still you seem to find it
very hard to acknowledege you made FSR sound like a wacky Sci Fi
magazine!

>I've already made it abundantly clear that no change of position
>in regard to FSR was made by me during the period in question.
>If you check the archives, you will see that I have been
>actively trying to engender support for FSR since at least 6th
>August 2003, see:

>http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2003/aug/m06-011.shtml

So how can you tell us you support FSR on one hand, then come
and spurt nonsense like the above?

>Firstly, a true sceptic will consider all of the evidence, not
>just what suits their pre-conceived ideas (unlike some people).

Yes, that is why you have the belief that ET does not have
anything to do with UFO sightings.

>Secondly, since when did I ask you to choose my reading
>material? Are you saying that only "true believers" are allowed
>to see the "cosmic secrets" contained within FSR? If so, that is
>a very elitist and discriminatory attitude that you have.

Oh, "elitsit and discriminatory"? Now who is acting this way,
see:

http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2003/nov/m29-013.shtml

>Thirdly, not all of the content is as you presume, perhaps you
>only read the parts that are "Pro Humanoid Contact" because that
>fits your preconceptions and they make you feel nice and warm
>inside?

>Probably not, there are a few other strange people on the list
>who would have trouble acknowledging what I wrote as fact, since
>it would destroy their "I'm more open-minded than you" stance..

You have a habit of this, perhaps you should be retrained along
the way?

>I'm sorry Roy, you are definitely beyond any help that I could
>offer you.

Thank god for that!


Roy








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             Re: A Movie Musical About Ufos And Aliens! - Hatch

From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 00:49:31 -0800
Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 12:35:00 -0500
Subject: Re: A Movie Musical About Ufos And Aliens! - Hatch


>From: Chris Rutkowski <rutkows.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 14:33:03 -0600
>Subject: A Movie Musical About Ufos And Aliens!

>17 March 2004

<snip>

>This was one movie I had to have! You see, Koi...Mil Gaya
>(which means, apparently, something like "Now that I've found
>you") is a Bollywood movie starring some of India's best and
>hottest actors - and it's all about UFOs and aliens. ("All
>singing! All dancing! All levitating!") I had heard about it
>several months ago and discussed it in some forums, but never
>thought I'd ever see a copy.

<snip>

>It's hard to describe Koi...Mil Gaya. Imagine The Sound of
>Music meets E.T., with the lead played by Jim Carrey or Jerry
>Lewis. Yes, it's a musical, and this makes it the only UFO movie
>musical I can think of. (Unless you count The Rocky Horror
>Picture Show.) It's also a romantic comedy, an X-Files episode,
>and a Nickelodeon-ish kids flick that delivers a message about
>acceptance and an appreciation of life. The scenery and
>cinematography are fanstastic, and the dance sequences are
>choreographed well, even including special effects and actors on
>a lot of wires, with tributes to Gene Kelly and Fred Astaire
>musicals.

<snip>

>Its website is: www.koimilgayathefilm.com

> Hoo-boy! Let's see Spielberg top that one!

- - - -

Hi Chris:


Keeeeeripes! And I complain about Hollywood. Looks like you
definitely got your $2 worth.

Musicals drive me right out of the room, but I can see why you
had to rent this one. There must be a tremendous market still
for cinema in India.

I rented one about the birth of their modern independent nation.
One scene showed some Britisher carefully studying books and
tables.

After a while, he would put in a short segment of the new
boundaries between India and Pakistan on a large map. No, they
didn't portray him as a heavy. Not that I could see, just
somebody who carefully divided a huge territory in two or three,
from the comfort of his library.


Best wishes

- Larry








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                   Re: Aztec UFO Fest Opens Friday - Hatch

From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 00:57:38 -0800
Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 12:36:36 -0500
Subject: Re: Aztec UFO Fest Opens Friday - Hatch



>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 11:26:33 -0800
>Subject: Aztec UFO Fest Opens Friday

>Source: The Daily Times - Farmington, New Mexico
>http://www.daily-times.com/artman/publish/article_9513.shtml
>Mar 17, 2004

>Aztec UFO fest opens Friday
>by Debra Mayeux/The Daily Times

>AZTEC =97 Fifty-six years ago on a small, dirt road north of
>Aztec, something unexplainable happened.

Hello Frank, and all at the Farmington Times:

Well, this is a lot cheaper than Dr. Greer's $400 hootenanny
back east. Free Energy costs a lot extra I suppose.


Best wishes

- Larry Hatch







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   Mar > Mar 18

               Re: Tracing The Flow Of The Gulf Breeze Money -

From: Joachim Koch <lists.nul>
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 10:17:48 +0100
Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 12:38:20 -0500
Subject: Re: Tracing The Flow Of The Gulf Breeze Money -


>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 00:38:45 -0500
>Subject: Re: Tracing The Flow Of The Gulf Breeze Money

>>From: Jerry Black <gulfbreezeinfo.nul>
>>To: UFO Updates <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 20:07:40 -0800 (PST)
>>Subject: Re: Tracing The Flow Of The Gulf Breeze Money

Since many years we here in Germany are working in the field of
UFO research on various levels and know Bruce Maccabee and his
work.

We here in Germany estimate Bruce's expertise in the field of
analyzing evidence of UFO sightings such as photographs, videos
etc. . For us he is one of the best researchers in this field
and it is beyond any doubt that he would not support a hoax.

Many years ago, he sent one of his papers to me "Gulf Breeze
without Ed Walters". This paper clearly shows that even if Ed
would have faked all his footage and fooled everyone -- there
have been many more sightings by others in Gulf Breeze at that
time which have nothing to do with Ed Walters.

When I looked at the emails which appeared here regarding
this topic - it seems to me as if it is an assault on
Bruce. So the question arises: why this and why now?

Why running down Bruce Maccabee's name right now? One of the
leading footage analysts in the UFO field? Is this something in
advance? Is it because there is or will be something to be
analized?

'Conspiracy' - this word is usually used to kill any discussion
about the involvement of governmental agencies and the
industrial-military complex in ET knowledege and technology. It
has become an abuse and these agencies and their helpers are
happy about it. But have we not all already experienced too much
in our field of research not to know that there is an agenda who
tries to keep control over the state of knowledge about non-
human intelligence? I only remember what happend to the Roswell
Initiative by the enigmatic 180 degree turn-around of Kent
Jeffrey who once suddenly said the opposite of what he was
fighting for together with us in the years before. And I
remember very well the blackened pages of the NSA-paper that
Stanton showed to his audience on his lectures.

'Jerry Black' could be anyone. Is it worthwhile to do an
investigation on him and his background - and maybe who is
paying him? I remember that Errol once presented a list of
server endings clearly showing that this list it monitored by
'the Empire'. Does anybody know 'Mr. Black' or has seen him? Is
there a door bell you can ring and he opens the door?

In 1997 I have met Travis Walton here in Berlin and could talk
and sit with him for quite a while. This man is not a liar, he
is upright, humble and modest.

Bruce - don't worry about this Mister Black .


Joachim Koch








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   Mar > Mar 18

                         Saint Elmo's Fire Pictures?

From: Elena Canziani <photo2.focus.nul>
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 12:17:14 +0100
Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 12:42:05 -0500
Subject: Saint Elmo's Fire Pictures?


Focus Magazine
Milan
Italy

I'm looking for some picures about/of Saint Elmo's Fire for
Focus, a monthly magazine published in italy.

Can anyone please help me?

Thanks a lot in advance.


Best Regards

Elena








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   Mar > Mar 18

                              Zygmunt Adamski?

From: Chris Zielinski <KRZYSSHULTZ.nul>
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 06:49:46 EST
Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 12:44:20 -0500
Subject: Zygmunt Adamski?


I am intrested in Mr Adamski's mysterious death in Todmorden,
11th June 1980. He was a close friend of my parents and I
identified him in Hebden Bridge Mortuary.

I have an open mind and would like to get in contact with Alan
Godfrey or anyone else with special interest with the case.


Thank you,

Chris Zielinski







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   Mar > Mar 18

                Near-Earth Asteroid Record-Breaking Approach

From: Scott Caput <caput.nul>
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 09:09:51 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 12:46:22 -0500
Subject: Near-Earth Asteroid Record-Breaking Approach


I thought the List might find this interesting.

Seems like a pretty close approach, (0.1 LD) 1/10 the distance
from the earth to the moon.

-----

http://neo.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news142.html

Steven R. Chesley
Paul W. Chodas
NASA's Near Earth Object Program Office
Wednesday, March 17, 2004

A small near-Earth asteroid (NEA), discovered Monday night by
the NASA-funded LINEAR asteroid survey, will make the closest
approach to Earth ever recorded.....

-----

Scott Caput








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                Re: 'The Truth' According To Greer - Connors

From: Wendy Connors <fadeddiscs.nul>
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 07:34:20 -0700
Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 12:49:06 -0500
Subject: Re: 'The Truth' According To Greer - Connors


>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 15:57:06 -0600
>Subject: Re: 'The Truth' According To Greer

>>From: Wendy Connors <fadeddiscs.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 19:58:41 -0700
>>Subject: Re: 'The Truth' According To Greer

>>Now Greer has a farm...just like Howard Menger! Get it?

>>Howard held the first Interplanetary Space Convention at his
>>farm in Lebannon, NJ in September, 1958.

>Yeah, Wendy, but at least Howard Menger was fun!


Hi Jerry,

So true! He was fun!

Howard was actually a gentle and sincere person. He never
charged people for intergalactic snipe hunts. He humbly offered
his photos and music to the public to earn a living... lost his
profession, many friends, etc., yet was soft spoken and really
believed what he claims happened to him and his wife, Connie.

Seems to me that anyone who spends a lifetime holding their
belief against an onslaught of skeptics and debunkers and so-
called common sense, must have had some type of an exceptional,
personal event in their life that gave them unwavering inner
strength.

He may have been two cans short of the proverbial six-pack to
many in Ufology, but I greatly admire his unwavering faith...
which was more important to him than getting people to believe,
accept or follow him.

All without $400 flashlight sessions, I might add.

BTW, I have a copy of Howard's 'Authentic Music From Another
Planet', which is a lot of fun too, even though he doesn't give
Liberace a run for his money. <LoL>


Wendy Connors
www.fadeddiscs.com







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   Mar > Mar 18

               Re: New Zealander First To Explain UFOs - Shell

From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 08:38:30 -0600
Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 12:50:36 -0500
Subject: Re: New Zealander First To Explain UFOs - Shell


>From: Rod Brock <humble98225.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 23:46:01 -0800 (PST)
>Subject: Re: New Zealander First To Explain UFOs

>From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>To: - UFO UpDates Subscribers - ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 19:05:50 -0500
>Subject: New Zealander First To Explain UFOs

>>Source: Scoop - New Zealand

>>http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/SC0403/S00064.htm

>>17 March 2004

>>New Zealander First To Explain UFOs

>What it comes down to is this: I'm not saying vortice-related
>fireballs don't happen; I think they may happen, especially in
>tornadic vortice breakdown (where you have the added "oomph" of
>a tornado ripping up a gas line) But as a "unified" theory of
>"nocturnal lights," Coleman's idea is practically worthless.

I've never been much of an enthusiast for LITS, anyway, since
they are so inherently easy to misinterpret. They're the
"bargain basement" of UFOs. But I doubt that any votrex theory
can still adequately explain lights that change color and then
back again, lights that repeat patterns and so on. Even
something as simple lights that flash on and off are a little
hard to explain since it would require a fuel buildup, burn,
then re-buildup, over and over again.

But, hey. I have an open mind. If this dude can definitively
prove that a specific UFO sighting was the result of this
process, I'll buy it. Of course, it won't mean that another UFO
was a result of the same thing. Theories. I've got some, too.








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                 Re: 'The Truth' According To Greer - Shell

From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 08:41:01 -0600
Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 12:51:57 -0500
Subject: Re: 'The Truth' According To Greer - Shell


>From: Wendy Connors <fadeddiscs.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 19:58:41 -0700
>Subject: Re: 'The Truth' According To Greer

>>From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>To: - UFO UpDates Subscribers - <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 19:15:00 -0500
>>Subject: 'The Truth' According To Greer

><snip>

>>THE TRUTH
>>(THE POWER ELITES DON'T WANT YOU TO KNOW)

>>You are invited to spend 5 days with Dr. Greer at his farm in
>>Virginia to hear what he has learned after 14 years of
>>investigations

>Now Greer has a farm...just like Howard Menger! Get it? Howard
>held the first Interplanetary Space Convention at his farm in
>Lebannon, NJ in September, 1958.

He's gotta do something with all that fertilizer he spreads
around.








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   Mar > Mar 18

                       Police Quiz Hawking Over Abuse

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 07:31:21 -0800
Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 12:59:39 -0500
Subject: Police Quiz Hawking Over Abuse


Source: The Australian - Sydney NSW

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,9009618%255E1702,0
0.html

Police quiz Hawking over abuse

From correspondents in Cambridge, England
March 18, 2004

ASTROPHYSICIST Stephen Hawking has been questioned by detectives
about alleged abuses that reportedly left him with a series of
unexplained injuries, police said tonight.

Hawking, 62, who is paralysed by amyotrophic lateral sclerosis,
was interviewed yesterday by Cambridgeshire police at Papworth
Hospital, said police spokesman Tony Taylorson.

It was the first time police have spoken to Hawking since
opening an investigation late last year into reports that he
suffered mysterious injuries, including a broken wrist, gashes
to the face and a cut lip.

For more than 40 years, sclerosis has deprived the scientist of
the ability to speak or to move, except for a few fingers he
uses to operate a computerized voice box.

Despite his severe disabilities, Hawking is one of the world's
best-known scientists. He serves as Lucasian Professor of
Mathematics at Cambridge University, a post once held by Sir
Isaac Newton, and is author of the best-selling book A Brief
History Of Time.

In January, Hawking suffered from pneumonia and was admitted to
Addenbrooke's hospital in Cambridge. He has since been moved to
Papworth Hospital in the town of Papworth Everad.

"We spoke with Prof. Hawking for the first time on Wednesday in
connection with allegations of abuse against him," Taylorson
said. "I can't say anything more about the case."

Hawking has dismissed allegations that he was assaulted or
abused at his home in Cambridge as "completely false".

Stories in the British press have contained sometimes lurid
allegations attributed to unidentified nurses and others who
have cared for him.

The scientist, who divorced his first wife after 26 years,
married his nurse, Elaine Mason, 53, in 1995. The two now live
in Cambridge near the university.

His former wife, Jane Hawking, who wrote a memoir about their
time together, has urged police to investigate the reported
abuses he suffered. Recently, she said she and their three adult
children have long suspected that he had suffered repeated,
unexplained assaults, some of them reported by his full-time
nurses, but that he refused to take action.

During their investigation, Cambridgeshire police also are
expected to question some of Hawking's previous nurses.










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   Mar > Mar 18

             Re: A Movie Musical About UFOs And Aliens! - Shell

From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 08:48:21 -0600
Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 13:01:05 -0500
Subject: Re: A Movie Musical About UFOs And Aliens! - Shell


>From: Chris Rutkowski <rutkows.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 14:33:03 -0600
>Subject: A Movie Musical About Ufos And Aliens!

A few years back I had an idea for a stage musical based on
George Adamski. I envisioned it as a kind of early 60's rock 'n
roll love story in the "Little Shop of Horrors" mode. I wouldn't
follow the story exactly. Some literary license. Adamski as the
lonely outcast dreamer, a hot dog vendor at an observatory who
discovers and is contacted by aliens. He falls in love with a
particularly hot Venusian girl. Love triangle with Mrs. Adamski.
A climactic rally at Big Rock, where nothing happens and
everybody goes home disappointed. Adamski flies off with his
Venusian sweetheart in the end. Pretty simple, but fun. Maybe
Steve Martin as Adamski.

Angels, please send seed money. ;)








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   Mar > Mar 18

                   Spielberg & Cruise 'War of The Worlds'

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 07:50:49 -0800
Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 13:04:35 -0500
Subject: Spielberg & Cruise 'War of The Worlds'


Source: WebIndia123.com - Kochi, India

http://www.webindia123.com/news/showdetails.asp?id=33872&cat=Entertainment

March 18, 2004


Spielberg and Cruise team up for "The War of The Worlds"!

Washington--It couldn't get better than this. After enthralling
audiences with their 2002 offering, Speilberg and Cruise are
joining forces again to bring H.G. Wells' classic alien-invasion
epic, The War of the Worlds, to the big screen. "They are
working on the screenplay for it and they're trying to move it
along quickly," E-Online quoted Speilberg's publicist, Marvin
Levy as saying.

The project, a coproduction of Paramount Pictures, Cruise/Wagner
Productions and DreamWorks, is yet another UFO tale by Speiberg.
According to the report, War of World's is a darker sci-fi film
like A.I. Artificial Intelligence and Minority Report and 2002's
Emmy-winning Sci Fi Channel miniseries, Taken, produced by
Speilberg.

Shooting for the film is expected to start in the late 2005, as
soon as screenwriter David Koepp (Jurassic Park, Spider-Man)
completes a rewrite of Josh Friedman's first draft and Spielberg
and Cruise clear their calendars.

Wells' War of the Worlds novel was first published in 1898 but
achieved a whole new level of notoriety in American culture when
Orson Welles' Mercury Theater adapted it into a now-infamous
1938 live radio drama.

Since then, there have been numerous attempts made to resurrect
War of the Worlds on film, but all failed save a little-known TV
series in the late '80s, the report adds.

The War of the Worlds will be the first E.T.-themed encounter
for Cruise and his third starring role for Spielberg. If all
goes as planned, the movie will hit theaters most likely in
summer 2006.










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   Mar > Mar 18

                         Re: JPL's Mars UFO - Ledger

From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 11:47:24 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 13:05:53 -0500
Subject: Re: JPL's Mars UFO - Ledger


>From: Paul Anderson <paulanderson.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 14:34:33 -0800
>Subject: Re: JPL's Mars UFO

>>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 23:42:48 -0400
>>Subject: Re: JPL's Mars UFO - Ledger

>>I'd say a reflection off a flat faced rock, Nick. I note another
>>reflection in the foreground as well.

>>Is your last paragraph suggesting that either Mar's 2 and 3
>>might be a possible reason for the reflections?

>Nope, sorry, as I noted yesterday, it is the discarded heat
>shield from the lander, already discussed and confirmed by JPL
>in the press briefings. I saw a closeup somewhere yesterday too,
>in one of the raw image archives, forget which one offhand
>(there are a few of them).


Thanks Paul,

Received this as an explanation from Nick Balaskas as well.

JPL should have photos of these on record to begin with. I'm
sure they would want to know the condition of the hardware used
to land the craft on the Martian surface. I think the scientists
at JPL are in overload mode. There's probably too much
information coming in for them to key their photographs in any
meaningful manner.


Don Ledger









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   Mar > Mar 18

                  Re: No Flow Of Gulf Breeze Money - Clark

From: Jerome Clark <jkclark.nul>
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 10:28:33 -0600
Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 13:08:27 -0500
Subject: Re: No Flow Of Gulf Breeze Money - Clark


>From: Robert Gates <RGates8254.nul>
>To: updates.nul
>Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 23:51:09 EST
>Subject: No Flow Of Gulf Breeze Money

>Bottom Line Of The No Flow Of Gulf Breeze Money

>As this issue has been batted around a lot, I would like to
>share with the List the results of my inquiries.

>The issue was raised by Jerry Black who (based upon tales and
>stories allegedly told by Rex Salisbury, Vickie Lyons and
>others) that Ed Walters sent a large bundle of cash to MUFON and
>or FUFOR and that bundle (rumored to be 10 plus K)of cash was
>passed to Bruce Maccabee to taint the results of the
>investigation in favor of Ed Walters. I said "allegedly" because
>somebody recently claimed that words had been put in Vickie
>Lyons' mouth. In essence the allegation was that Ed Walters
>channeled/funneled cash through MUFON to Bruce.


>I e-mailed some principles [sic] and asked questions and here is the
>bottom line on this issue:

A small point: I think you mean "principals," not "principles."

>So simply stated, there were no sums of money paid by Ed Walters
>to MUFON, then given to Bruce Maccabee to tilt the investigation
>in favor of Ed Walters.

>So the bottom line on the alleged and talked about "flow of Gulf
>Breeze money" is there was no flow. What we have here is another
>jewel encrusted helmet story.

Thanks and congratulations, Robert. Through your good efforts we
can now lay this little exercise in ufological McCarthyism to
rest and put it where it belongs: deep and irrecoverably into
the memory hole.


Cordially,

Jerry Clark








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   Mar > Mar 18

                       Proposed Journal Of UFO History

From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 16:18:24 +0000
Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 13:09:31 -0500
Subject: Proposed Journal Of UFO History


I am preparing a sample issue of a Journal of UFO History (a
publication of the Donald E. Keyhoe Archives) to test the
interest in possible regular publication by subscription.

For a Prospectus via e-mail attachment, contact me off line.


Thank you.

Richard Hall








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   Mar > Mar 18

                     Re: Filers Files #13 - 2004 - Smith

From: James Smith <zeus001002.nul>
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 09:00:00 -0800 (PST)
Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 13:16:23 -0500
Subject: Re: Filers Files #13 - 2004 - Smith


>From: George A. Filer <Majorstar.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 14:09:44 -0500
>Subject: Filers Files #13 - 2004

>Hawaii - Distant Moving Star

>KEAAU  The witness got his coffee at 5:30 PM, and looked at a
>star filled sky on February 27, 2004, and sat down to enjoy the
>beauty or the stars, and noticed one was moving. It flew east
>and was a medium size star, but it just kept moving and I had to
>get up and go to the other side of house to follow it. There was
>no sound, and it seemed to be very high up in the atmosphere.
>Although it seemed to slow down a times, its path seemed to be
>fairly straight in the late afternoon sky.
>Thanks to Peter Davenport UFOcenter

I am not sure how Mr. Filer made this mistake, but the UFO
report is incorrect.

=46rom the REAL report at NUFORC:

http://www.nuforc.org/webreports/035/S35292.html

-----

Occurred : 2/27/2004 05:30 (Entered as : 02/27/1904 5:30)
Reported: 2/27/2004 7:45:54 AM 07:45
Posted: 3/2/2004
Location: Keaau, HI
Shape: Light
Duration:several minutes Looked like a distant moving star, kept going.

I had gotten up, had my coffee and came outside. It was dark,
warm and breezy and a starfilled sky. I pulled out a chair and
sat down to just enjoy the beauty of the early morning. As I
gazed up at the stars, I noticed one was moving and it just kept
going, sort of west to east I'd say. It was like a medium size
star, but it just kept moving and I had to get up and go to
other side of house to follow it. Was it a satellite? There was
no sound, and it seemed to be very high up in the atmosphere.
Although it seemed to slow down a times, I can't really really
say for sure. The path seemed to be fairly straight. Then I lost
sight of it in the east."

-----

Anyway, analysis shows this to be likely a satellite.

The following satellite is the only one that is visible at +-30
min from 5:30 am which is going anywhere near West to East at
that spot and day.

http://home.earthlink.net/%7Ezeus001002/keaau1.jpg


Name: Palapa 6 Rocket 3.3
Magnitude Time: 05:40:00
Alt.0=B0 W  05:41:42 74=B0 N
Az.05:45:36 10=B0 ENE








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   Mar > Mar 18

                       Re: JPL's Mars UFO - Stevenson

From: Colin Stevenson <colsweb.nul>
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 16:49:46 -0000
Fwd Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 13:18:15 -0500
Subject: Re: JPL's Mars UFO - Stevenson


>From: Paul Anderson <paulanderson.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 14:34:33 -0800
>Subject: Re: JPL's Mars UFO

>>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 23:42:48 -0400
>>Subject: Re: JPL's Mars UFO - Ledger

>>I'd say a reflection off a flat faced rock, Nick. I note another
>>reflection in the foreground as well.

Not only a reflection but what seems like a Monkey head a carved
face and a stone balustrading or something or maybe its the
cylindrical body of a space craft which someone can identify?

http://www.colsweb.com/MarsMonkey.gif

122 Kb - 1.5 enlargement extract from

http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/2/n/067/2N132319976EFF1800P1816L0
M1.JPG

Top left looks like the end of some fancy stonework and top
right is reflecting light brightly with material behind it.
Could that Martian Monkey be trying to hide in the shadow whilst
popping its head out of a hole. It has hair too to the right and
reminds me of one of my relations :-)

>>Is your last paragraph suggesting that either Mar's 2 and 3
>>might be a possible reason for the reflections?

>Nope, sorry, as I noted yesterday, it is the discarded heat
>shield from the lander, already discussed and confirmed by JPL
>in the press briefings. I saw a closeup somewhere yesterday too,
>in one of the raw image archives, forget which one offhand
>(there are a few of them).

Did NASA or USSR send a Monkey to Mars in the past? Could Mars
be the actual 'Planet of the Apes' :-)

Kind wishes to all,

Col

http://www.colsweb.com







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   Mar > Mar 19

                UFOs And Fairies/Legends/Supernatural - Pt. I

From: Terry W. Colvin <fortean1.nul>
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 10:20:53 -0700
Fwd Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 08:46:10 -0500
Subject: UFOs And Fairies/Legends/Supernatural - Pt. I


T. Peter Park wrote the Forteana List:

Good-Bye Mermaids, Hello Crop Circles? - Part I
(HISTORICAL SUCCESSION OR DEVELOPMENT OF ANOMALIES) - Part 1


Are so-called "Fortean," "anomalous," or "paranormal" phenomena
constant perennial features of human experience? Or, do they
rather exhibit historical cycles, or a process of historical
succession or evolution? Are they stable, permanent features of
our world? Or, do some anomalies flourish for a few generations
or centuries, then fade away as new phenomena take their place?

Some phenomena, like ESP, "prophetic" or "clairvoyant" dreams,
ghosts, poltergeists, distant apparitions of the dying, and out-
of-the-body experiences, do seem to be perennial elements of
human experience. "Bigfoot" and other "Wildmen" and "Hairy
Hominids," Lake Monsters ("Nessie," "Champ," "Ogopogo," etc.),
and plesiosaurus- or zeuglodon-like sea serpents seem to be
similarly perennial. Thus, "psychic powers" seem to be a
permanent inherent aspect of human nature. Likewise, certain
animals still unknown to "official" biology seem to be an
integral part of our planet's fauna. Other phenomena, however,
do seem to suggest possible historical trends. "Crop circles,"
for instance, seem to have first appeared only in the late 20th
century, while sightings of fairies and mermaids seem to have
been far less common in the 20th century than in earlier
centuries. In April 2003, reports of boulders found inexplicably
placed on top of trees in Indiana's Yellowwood State Forest made
me wonder if we might be seeing the beginnings of yet another
new anomaly--mysteriously tree-perched rocks.

UFO's first burst on the Western public consciousness, as
possible secret weapons or even extraterrestrial spacecraft,
after World War II, in a period marked both by "Cold War"
national security jitters and by the dawning "Space Age" of
realistically possible near-future space flight. The post-1947
"flying saucers" followed hard on the World War II "foo
fighters" and the 1946-1947 northern European "ghost rockets,"
both popularly believed to be foreign secret weapons. Peculiar
lights and contraptions in the sky, however, have been reported
throughout history. Charles Fort cited many 18th, 19th, and
early 20th century reports, suggesting that some were
extraterrestrial craft visiting our planet. Other writers, like
Morris K. Jessup, Harold T. Wilkins, and Jacques Vallee, have
cited reports from the Bible, from Greek, Roman, mediaeval, and
Renaissance annals, and from Egyptian, Hindu, Muslim, Chinese,
and Japanese literature. Ezekiel's vision of wheels within
wheels, and Greek & Roman reports of "shields" and "chariots" in
the sky, have been especially popular as possible ancient UFO's.
However, such very old reports are now difficult to evaluate.
The witnesses are long dead, and the observers or annalists
interpreted the phenomena in pre-scientific religious and
mythological terms--as gods, angels, or demons, or as omens of
good or bad fortune. Many of these ancient, mediaeval, and
Oriental sightings may have simply been meteors, comets,
mirages, "sun-dogs," or unusual cloud formations. While
20th/21st century researchers have cited such sightings as
possible pre-modern extraterrestrial visitations, contemporary
observers and writers interpreted them in terms of their own
cultural concepts of gods, angels, demons, omens, and portents.
Jerome Clark has skeptically concluded that "contrary to what
you read and hear in many popular treatments of the subject, the
UFO phenomenon does not seem to be as old as mankind" [Jerome
Clark, "From Mermaids to Little Gray Men: The Prehistory of the
UFO Abduction Phenomenon," 'The Anomalist'. No. 8 (Spring 2000),
p. 17]

According to Clark, the "first records of phenomena" that
definitely "sound like modem UFOs" appeared in the early 19th
century. However, "these early sightings of strange lights and
structures seemed to those who made them to be weird, bizarre
experiences unrelated to anything else." It was only in 1919,
with the publication of Charles Fort's 'Book of the Damned',
that "anybody realized there was a worldwide phenomenon
consisting of unexplained appearances of unidentified flying
objects." Beginning in the 1890's, "such phenomena sometimes
occurred in waves," with large numbers of sightings reported in
a particular geographical area for a few weeks or months and
then ending. The first such "wave" or "flap" were the "airship"
waves of 1896-1897 and 1909. [Jerome Clark, "From Mermaids to
Little Gray Men: The Prehistory of the UFO Abduction
Phenomenon," +The Anomalist'. No. 8 (Spring 2000), pp. 17-18]

The 1896-1897 and 1909 "airship" waves suggest a late 19th and
early 20th century step-up of strange lights and contraptions in
the sky sightings in comparison to the past and in preparation
of the post-World War II "saucer wave" that is still with us
today. "They" or "it" seem to have largely "left us alone" in
the 1920's and 1930's, even after the panic inspired by Orson
Welles' notorious 1938 "Invasion From Mars" radio broadcast.
However, they came back in force during World War II, and never
left us since. So--just when *DID* UFO's in the modern sense
start?

Maybe in the early years of the 19th century, as Jerome Clark
believed? Or maybe in the 1860's, when UFO's may have crashed in
upstate New York and in Montana, and a "construction" with
"noisy lights" and a "noisy motor" resembling a "gigantic bird"
flew low over Copiap=F3, Chile? Attempted abductions and occupant
sightings date at least from 1880. That year, a terrified
Venezuelan boy managed to back away from a luminous ball to
which he felt "drawn," and witnesses near Lamy, New Mexico saw
and heard a "balloon" with figures speaking an unknown language.
By the time of the 1896-1897 and 1909 "waves," modern-style
UFO's of some sort were already an established phenomenon.

Two UFO's may have crashed in North America in the 1860's,
anticipating Roswell by nearly a century. 1865 newspaper reports
mention the descent of a "meteor" in what is now Montana, and a
trapper's claim to have found artifacts where it landed. A
modern UFO investigator believes he has found possible hints of
another UFO crash with a surviving alien occupant, and a
Roswell-style government cover-up, in upstate New York during
the Civil War--in seeming corroborations of a fantasy horror
writer's curious dream!

The November 15, 1865 Kingston (Ontario) 'British Daily Whig'
reprinted a "recent" 'Missouri Democrat' story under the title
"An Extraordinary Story: A Meteoric Shower: Crockery Falling
from the Sky." Commenting on the 'Missouri Democrat' story in a
July 1998 FATE article, Canadian Fortean researcher W. Ritchie
Benedict noted that "as crockery generally refers to cups and
saucers, this may be the very first reference to =91saucers' in
the sky." The story gave the account of an old Rocky Mountain
trapper, James Lumley, who "about the middle of last September"
(1864? 1865?) saw and heard a "bright luminous body in the
heavens" descending, crashing, and exploding about 75 to 100
miles from the "Great Falls of the Upper Missouri" (present-day
Great Falls, Montana). The next day, he found a crash site with
uprooted trees where "a wide path had been cut through the
forest," resembling the devastation at Podkamennaya Tunguska
(Siberia) in 1908. Lumley found an "immense stone driven into
the side of a mountain." Examining the "stone," he found it
"divided into compartments," and "carved with hieroglyphics" in
several places. Lumley also "discovered fragments of a substance
resembling glass, and here and there dark stains, as though
caused by a liquid." He believed that "the hieroglyphics are the
work of human hands," and that the "stone" itself was "used for
some purpose by animated beings." The Missouri Democrat reporter
noted that "Astronomers have long held that it is possible that
the heavenly bodies are inhabited." Meteors "could be used as a
conveyance by the inhabitants of other planets in exploring
space." Some day "some future Columbus, from Mercury or Uranus,"
could "land on this planet" in a "meteoric conveyance," and
"take possession thereof." They could "eventually drive...the
=91human race' into...the most abject servitude," as the Spaniards
did to the Indians after 1492. "There must be a race superior to
us," the 'Missouri Democrat' concluded, "and this may at some
future time be demonstrated in the manner we have indicated."
[W. Ritchie Benedict, "Was There a =91Roswell' in 1865?," FATE,
July 1998, quoting 'Missouri Democrat'/Kingston 'British Daily
Whig' story in full; FATE article reprinted on-line in Parascope
<http://www.parascope.com/nb/articles/ufocrash1865.htm>] The
'Missouri Democrat' story is interesting not only for its
description of a possible UFO crash 83 years before Roswell, but
also as perhaps the earliest anticipation of H.G. Wells' 'War of
the Worlds'and 20th century "invasion from space" literature.

Another UFO may have also crashed in North America in the
1860's, shortly before Lumley's "meteor." UFO Roundup editor
Joseph Trainor found hints of a possible Civil War era upstate
New York crash in an odd dream reported by New England horror
writer H.P. Lovecraft (1890-1937) in 1920. Lovecraft wrote
friends of dreaming that he was a Union Army surgeon, First
Lieutenant Eben Spencer, home on a furlough in July, 1864 in his
unnamed native village in northern New York state. Urged by a
local youth's pleading, he visited an old hometown medical
colleague, "Dr. Chester," who had gained a sinister reputation
for mysterious experiments. Dr. Chester proudly showed him two
amputated left arms of a bluish-skinned non-human creature--
whereupon Lovecraft awoke. Intrigued by Lovecraft's dream,
Trainor did some research on "Lt. Eben Spencer" and "Dr.
Chester" in 1997.Research in various libraries showed that the
"dream" actually had "roots in reality." There had indeed been a
First Lieutenant Elbridge Gerry Spencer, surgeon, of the 94th
New York Regiment, U.S. Army, from the small northern New York
town of Brockett's Bridge, now called Dolgeville, near Herkimer.
Elbridge Gerry Spencer was born in Brockett's Bridge in March
1839, and enlisted in the Union Army in 1862. "Dr. Chester" was
Dr. H.C. Smallwood, a local herbalist with a younger brother (as
in Lovecraft's dream). Curiously enough, neither Spencer,
Smallwood nor Smallwood's younger brother were listed in the
1870 Census and the 1881 town directory. Even stranger: the 1889
'Herkimer Democrat' obituary of Spencer's sister stated that he
had "vanished twenty years ago," i.e., around 1869. A German-
born New York businessman, Alfred Dolge, came to Brockett's
Bridge in 1874, introducing various industries and many German
immigrants, turning the community into a "company town," renamed
Dolgeville in 1881. Trainor saw the whole mystery as a Roswell-
like 19th century UFO crash cover-up: Smallwood, he speculated,
found a crashed spaceship and badly injured alien in the woods
near Brockett's Bridge, nursed the alien back to health but
could not save its two left arms, and showed it to his brother
and Lieutenant Spencer. As a dutiful Army officer, Spencer
reported it to his military superiors, who informed the ruthless
Union spymaster Lafayette C. Baker, head of the National
Detective Police, a Civil War forerunner of the FBI. Baker
murdered Spencer, Smallwood, and Smallwood's brother to keep
their discovery a secret. Alfred Dolge, too, Trainor felt, was
brought to Brockett's Bridge to destroy all traces of its pre-
1874 past. [Joseph Trainor, "1864: Roswell in Upstate New York?
," UFO Roundup, Vol. 4, No.33 (December 9, 1999), quoting H.P.
Lovecraft, 'Selected Letters: 1911-1937', Vol.1 (Sauk City, WI:
Arkham House, 1965), pp. 100-102; Joseph Trainor, "1997: Cheap
Detective," UFO Roundup, Vol. 4, No.34 (December 16, 1999), e-
mail message of Joseph Trainor to T. Peter Park, September 28,
1999].

 If the Lumley story is NOT a hoax, then it's a MOST
interesting companion-piece to Joseph Trainor's UFO Roundup
speculations about weird horror writer H.P. Lovecraft's 1920
"Lieutenant Spencer dream" suggesting a possible Roswell-like
Civil War era upstate New York UFO crash cover-up. If the Lumley
story is "for real," and if there is any validity to Trainor's
theory about Lovecraft's dream, then we have at least TWO North
American UFO crashes in the 1860's. Could it just be, perhaps,
that the 1860's were when "they" first came here? Are the 1860's
when we perhaps should first start looking for hints of alien
abductions?

A strange "construction" with "lights" and a "noisy motor" flew
low over Copiap=F3, Chile, on July 1, 1868. Local people described
it as" a gigantic bird" with "eyes wide open and shining like
burning coals," covered with "immense scales" that "clashed
together with a metallic sound". Although it was not an actual
landing, Jacques Vallee called this the first instance of close
observation of an unknown object at low altitude in the
nineteenth century. [Charles Fort, 'Lo!' (1931), in 'The
Complete Books of Charles Fort' (New York: Dover Publications,
1974), p. 638, citing 'Zoologist', July, 1868;Jacques Vallee,
'Passport to Magonia' (Henry Regnery, 1969), pp. 179-180, Case
1]

"Close Encounters of the Third Kind" and abductions, too, are
largely a post-World War II phenomenon. A few alleged "occupant"
or "humanoid" sightings from the late 1940's and early 1950's,
including the alleged July 1947 Roswell NM UFO crash alien
bodies, were largely ignored by "serious," "scientific"
UFO'logists because of their embarrassing resemblance to the
wild tales of almost certainly fraudulent "contactees" like
George Adamski, Orfeo Angellucci, George Van Tassel, Daniel
Fry, Truman Bethurum, George Hunt Williamson, and Reinhold
Schmidt. These occultist-oriented "contactees,"spinning
Theosophist or "New Age" fantasies about meeting beautiful,
godlike or angelic "Space Brothers with love-and-peace messages
for us Earthlings, were universally dismissed by "serious" UFO
researchers. Brazilian farmer Ant=F4nio Villas-Boas' 1957
abduction and seduction by a sexy blonde blue-eyed "space-girl"
with high cheekbones and red pubic hair, and Barney & Betty
Hill's 1961 New Hampshire "Interrupted Journey," were the first
abduction tales to be taken seriously by "scientific,"
"responsible" UFO researchers, and not just by "contactee"
cultists. While the Villas-Boas and Hill cases occurred in 1957
and 1961, they were publicized in UFO literature in the mid-
1960's.

More apparently credible UFO abduction stories began to surface
in the late 1960's and early 1970's, becoming an accepted part
of the general UFO discourse. One of the first such stories was
that of Ashland (Nebraska) police patrolman Herbert Schirmer,
who saw a UFO and experienced time loss on the night of December
3, 1967. Under hypnosis, Schirmer remembered being taken aboard
the UFO and talki ng with aliens who claimed to be getting
electricity from power lines. On October 11, 1973, Mississippi
fishermen Charles Hickson and Calvin Parker saw a UFO over the
Pascagoula River, and were abducted and examined by silvery
robot-like entities who took them into the craft. UFO'logists
doing retrospective historical research have found a few
*POSSIBLE* Close Encounter III and abduction cases going back to
the late 19th and early 20th centuries. However, the phenomena
do seem to have become really common only from the 1950's and
1960's onward.

Temple University historian and abduction researcher David M.
Jacobs noted in 'The Threat' (New York: Simon & Schuster, 1998)
that "Researchers can date the abduction phenomenon directly to
the late 1920's, and family studies suggest its origin in the
1890's." He added that the aliens "began their breeding program
at the turn of the century" (David M. Jacobs, 'The Threat',
1998, p. 229) In 'Secret Life' (New York: Simon & Schuster,
1992), Jacobs mentioned "indications" that the abduction
phenomenon "might have begun in the late nineteenth or early
nineteenth century," claimed to have "collected some reports
suggestive of abductions in the 1900's" and "investigated
abductions that iccurred in the early 1930's," and observed that
the "main bulk of abductions seems to have begun in the mid-
twentieth century, perhaps coinciding with the first UFO
sighting waves of the 1940's(David M. Jacobs, 'Secret Life', p.
309). In a private e-mail communication (16 February 2001), Dr.
Jacobs has dated the abduction phenomenon to the second half of
the 19th century for a number of reasons, with family history
stories about great-grandfather's strange experiences, etc., as
one of the clues. Budd Hopkins, according to Jacobs, has
interviewed people who date abductions of their own to the
1920's. Dr. Jacobs himself has hypnotized abductees who had
experiences in the early 1930's and who were quite convinced
that their mother or father was an abductee. The 1896-1897
mystery airship wave, too, Jacobs suspects, might be an
indicator of abduction activity (David M. Jacobs, e-mail, 16
February 2001). The 1920's, when some of Budd Hopkins' older
subjects had abductions--or, more exactly, 1921--saw the first
20th century UFO "kidnapping" mentioned in the media (though
only in 1954), that of an 8-year-old French boy near Marseilles
(see below).

Two reports from 1880--one from Venezuela, one from New Mexico--
appear to be the first known cases respectively of an attempted
abduction and of UFO occupant sightings. In 1880, a 14-year- old
boy in eastern Venezuela saw a luminous ball descending from the
sky and hovering near him. The boy felt somehow "drawn" to the
ball, but succeeded in backing away despite his terror [Vallee,
'Passport to Magonia', Case 5, p. 180, citing Lorenzen, 'UFO's
Over the Americas' (Signet, 1968), p. 206] At Lamy, New Mexico,
on the evening of March 26, 1880, four men walking near Galisteo
Junction heard voices coming from a "strange balloon" flying
over them. It was shaped like a fish and seemed to be guided by
a large fanlike device. There were eight to ten figures aboard,
speaking ab unknown language. The object flew low over Galisteo
Junction and rose rapidly toward the east. [Vallee, 'Passport to
Magonia', Case 6, p. 180, citing 'Flying Saucer Review' (London)
65,3]

Aside from possible abductions, alleged Close Encounters III of
the modern type after the 1880 Galisteo Junction sighting date
at least from the 1896-1897 Great Airship wave. There is, for
instance, the famous or infamous story of the airship that
crashed into a windmill in Aurora, Texas, in 1897, with its
dwarfish "Martian" occupant buried in a local cemetery--a story
now almost universally regarded as a hoax. There is, too, the
almost equally notorious April 1897 Kansas "cownapping" case,
now usually explained as a tongue-in-cheek local newspaper
reprint of a prize-winning tale from a small-town "Liars' Club."

It was in connection with this 1896-1897 wave that the first
published story of an abduction by extraterrestrials appeared in
the Stockton, California, 'Evening Mail' on November 27, 1896.
Two days earlier, Col. H.G. Shaw, a former editor of the
newspaper, claimed that he and a friend, Camille Spooner, had
encountered three tall, thin beings, 7 feet tall and nude, with
small delicate hands and hairless except for a soft downy fur on
the skin, as they were traveling near Lodi, California. The
creatures had large eyes, but small mouths and ears. They
carried bags with nozzles which they held to their mouths as if
to breathe, and bright egg-shaped lamps. Shaw tried to converse
with them, but the creatures did not understand him and only
responded with a warbling, monotonous chant. The aliens tried to
grab the two witnesses and drag them toward a nearby cigar-
shaped airship, but because each weighed less than an ounce,
they lacked the strength and finally retreated. Shaw believed
that the creatures had come from Mars.(On 1896 Lodi incident:
Patrick Huyghe, 'The Field Guide to Extraterrestrials' [New
York: Avon Books, 1996], p. 66, citing Jenny Randles, 'Alien
Contacts and Abductions' [New York: Sterling, 1994]; Jerome
Clark, "From Mermaids to Little Gray Men: The Prehistory of the
UFO Abduction Phenomenon, 'The Anomalist', No. 8, Spring 2000,
p. 18 ) The first recorded successful modern UFO "kidnapping,"
however, seems to have taken place in France in 1921 (see
below).

A little over a decade later, we have the famous case of the
landed craft with human-looking occupants speaking a foreign
language seen by itinerant puppeteer Mr, Lithbridge in
Caerphilly, Wales, on May 18, 1909. Mr. Lithbridge's sighting
was just one of many reported of mysterious lights and crafts
seen flying over England, Wales, and also far-away New Zealand
in 1909. Wales, too, had seen many mysterious lights in 1904-
1905, many coinciding with a Welsh religious revival in 1905.
The 1909 New Zealand wave, too, presented some intriguing Close
Encounters III, mostly of witnesses seeing figures in passing
airships. In one case, a witness reported that such a figure had
shouted at him in an unknown language. In another case, a
newspaper mentioned in passing another printing a letter from a
man who claimed to have had a face-to-face encounter with small
"Japanese"-looking men from a landed airship (Jerome Clark,
"From Mermaids to Little Gray Men," p. 19). In January, 1910,
several witnesses in Invercargill, New Zealand--including the
vicar, the Mayor, and a policeman--saw a cigar-shaped object
hovering at 100 feet altitude. A "man" appeared at a side door
and shouted some words in an unknown language. The opening
closed, and the object accelerated and was lost to
sight.[Vallee, 'Passport to Magonia', p. 187, Case 38, citing
John Stuart, 'UFO Warning' (New Brunswick, NJ: Contact Inner
Light, 1963), p. 24]

  In Hamburg, Germany, at 4 AM early one morning in June 1914,
Gustav Herwagen opened the door of his house and saw a shining
cigar-shaped object with illuminated windows in a nearby field.
Near it were four or five "dwarfs" 1.20 meters (4 feet) tall,
wearing light clothing. Herwagen approached them, but they went
aboard the object as soon as they appeared to be aware of his
presence A door closed, and the craft took off silently,
climbing vertically.[Vallee, 'Passport to Magonia', pp. 187-188,
Case 39, citing UFO Nachrichten (Wiesbaden, Germany), April,
62]

One August afternoon in 1914, three young Americans and a
French-Canadian family saw a UFO with humanoid occupants on Lake
Huron's Georgian Bay in Ontario. William J. Kiehl, two other
young Americans working their way across Canada, and a French-
Canadian couple with their three children saw a spherical craft
resting on the water. Two "little fellows" 4 feet tall with
skinny bodies and big heads wearing iridescent green and purple
clothes, stood on its deck manipulating a green hose, plunging
it into the water. Three other little "men" dressed in light
brown, wearing square masks down to their shoulders, then
appeared on top of the craft, manipulating some tubes or pipes.
The "men" did not appear to notice the witnesses. They soon re-
entered the craft, except for one "little man" who remained
outside, clinging to a railing encircling the craft, as it rose
above the water and shot upward, leaving a short vapor trail.
[Coral and Jim Lorenzen, 'Flying Saucer Occupants' (New York:
New American Library, Signet Books, 1967), pp. 20-23; Jacques
Vallee, 'Passport to Magonia', p. 188, Case 40]

The February 29, 1916, Superior, Wisconsin 'Superior Telegram'
published what Jerome Clark called the "first credible-sounding
CE 3 from an American newspaper." Around 4:30 A.M., night
watchmen on the town's Lake Superior docks observed the passage
of a large flying craft in which three "men" were clearly
visible. This climaxed several nights of "mystery aeroplanes"
and strange lights seen hovering over Superior and nearby
Duluth, Minnesota. While America had not yet officially entered
World War I, nervous Duluth and Superior citizens feared the
lights and "aeroplanes" might be belligerent (presumably German)
bombers about to attack local munitions plants and industrial
facilities. Remnants of a wrecked homemade toy balloon found by
two Duluth waterfront watchmen on the night of February 29/March
1 convinced "reasonable,":"respectable" Duluthers and
Superiorites that the whole "mystery aeroplane" flap had simply
been a hoax fueled by pranksters' hot-air balloons. ('Superior
Telegram', February 29, 1916, and 'Duluth News Tribune'. March 1
and March 2, 1916), According to Clark, the 'Superior Telegram'
"mystery aeroplane" sighting report was "the only report of UFO
occupants to be published in the American press between 1897 and
1947, when the UFO age began" (Clark, "From Mermaids to Little
Gray Men," p. 19).

17-year-old John Boback of Youngstown, Pennsylvania was walking
along the railroad tracks between Youngstown and Mt. Braddock
one day in October, 1917, when he saw a saucer-shaped object
with a platform and rows of lights, sitting in a field 30 yards
to his left. He watched the object for 1-2 minutes. until it
took off with a high-pitched sound, rising gradually like a slow
airplane. It was the size of an average car. The top of the
object was a dome with elongated windows through which Boback
could see figures. [Vallee, Passport to Magonia, p. 188, case
47, citing Hartle, A Carbon Experiment (118 Oberreich St, La
Porte, Indiana 46350), p. 157]

Near Marseilles in the summer of 1921, an eight-year-old boy,
"G.B.", was "abducted" by two beings in the first recorder 20th
century UFO abduction, according to his letter years later in
the October 23, 1954 Paris-Match. Two tall, slender "men" in
flexible metal diving suits and "pliable helmets" had allegedly
dragged him into an "oddly shaped tank." Then "after a while an
opening appeared in the ceiling of the cabin, and in a few
seconds I found myself on the ground. However, I had to walk
most of the afternoon until I found myself near the road I had
left five minutes before." Jacques Vallee (Anatomy of a
Phenomenon, p. 25) called it "the first report of a UFO
=91kidnapping' in modern times,." though "we do not know the exact
reference of this information," listed by G. Quincy "without any
indication of source." [Jerome Clark, "From Mermaids to Little
Gray Men" ('Anomalist', No. 8, Spring 2000), p. 20; Vallee,
'Passport to Magonia', p. 188, Case 43, citing "Quincy"; Vallee,
'Anatomy of a Phenomenon: UFO's in Space: A Scientific
Appraisal' (Henry Regnery, 1965; Ballantine Books, 1974), p. 25,
citing G. Quincy, "Catalogue of 1,027 UFO Observations,"
personal communication; Peter Rogerson, "Fairyland's Hunters,"
'Magonia' 46, June 1993
http//magonia.demon.co.uk/arc/90/revis01.html ,citing INTCAT
files, supplied by Alain Garnard from research by D. Guarden,
and Jerome Clark, "Close Encounters of the Third Kind, 1901-
1959," 'Strange', No. 10, 1992]

[Continued in Part II]



Terry W. Colvin





                         The UFO UpDates Archive
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   Mar > Mar 19

               UFOs And Fairies/Legends/Supernatural - Pt. II

From: Terry W. Colvin <fortean1.nul>
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 10:22:48 -0700
Fwd Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 08:49:34 -0500
Subject: UFOs And Fairies/Legends/Supernatural - Pt. II


T. Peter Park wrote Forteana List:

Good-Bye Mermaids, Hello Crop Circles? - Part II
(Historical Succession Or Development Of Anomalies) - Part 2

[Continued From Part I]

Hunter William C. Lamb was following strange tracks near
Hubbell, Nebraska at 5 A.M. in the early morning of February 22,
1922 when he heard a crackling noise followed by a high- pitched
sound and saw a circular object masking the stars above him. It
became brilliantly lighted and landed in a hollow. Soon
afterward, hiding behind a tree, he saw a creature over 8 feet
tall flying from the direction where the object had landed,
approach the tree where Lamb hid, pass by, and disappear. The
creature left tracks in the snow, which Lamb followed for five
miles without results.[Vallee, 'Passport to Magonia, pp. 188-
189, case 44; Vallee, 'Anatomy of a Phenomenon', pp. 25-26,
citing "Aerospace Technical Intelligence Center. Official files
of the U.S. Air Force"]

Levis Brosseau, 20, of Fermeneuve, Canada, was returning home on
the night of June 12, 1929, when he saw a dark object with a
yellow light and his horse became very nervous. Within 6 meters
(20 feet) of the object four or five dwarfish figures were
running back and forth. He heard their pointed, childlike
voices, then saw the dark object take off with a machinelike
sound and a rush of air. Brosseau estimated the size of object
at about 15 meters (49 feet) in diameter and 5 meters(16 feet)
high. [Vallee, 'Passport to Magonia', p. 189, Case 46, citing
GEPA (Groupement d'Etude des Ph=E9nom=E8nes A=E9riens [Paris], Dec.,
68]

One morning in the Summer of 1933 near Chrysville, Pennsylvania,
a man observed a faint violet light in a field between
Chrysville and Morrestown. Walking to it, he found an ovoid
object 10 feet in diameter and 6 1/2 feet thick with a circular
opening resembling a vault door. Pushing it, he found the room
full of violet light and a smell of ammonia, and saw many
instruments but no occupant. [Vallee, 'Passport to Magonia', p.
189, Case 48, citing APRO (Aerial Phenomena Research
Organization, Tucson, Arizona). July, 64]; Janet and Colin Bord,
'Unexplained Mysteries of the 20th Century' (Chicago:
Contemporary Books. 1989), p. 383]

A few "paleo-abductions" (as Jerome Clark calls them) occurred
in the 1940's and 1950's, long before the Villas-Boas and Hill
cases and Budd Hopkins' and Whitley Strieber's books. The first
is not quite contemporaneous with the reporting, as it occurred
in 1942 and was described in a 1958 letter to the National,
Investigations Committee on Aerial Phenomena. Still, Clark found
it interesting because 1958 was still a few years before the
phrase "UFO abduction" entered the popular vocabulary. Two
soldiers at the Columbus, Mississippi, Army Flying School
watched the rapid descent of two red, glowing objects which then
hovered over woods at the end of the runway. As they watched it,
they experienced an odd feeling of sensory dislocation and found
themselves out on the field, with no memory of leaving the
control tower. Today this feeling of "missing time" would be
considered a possible abduction clue.[Jerome Clark, "From
Mermaids to Little Gray Men," p. 20]

Jerome Clark recounted a 1944 "paleo-abduction" described in a
1980 letter he found in the files of the J. Allen Hynek Center
for UFO Studies in Chicago. Late one night in October, 1944,
according to the letter, members of a family living in an
isolated area on the outskirts of Rochester, Pennsylvania, were
awakened by a loud noise and a flash of light. The
husband/father went to the door, where he saw a brown-robed
figure, four and a half feet tall. Fifteen feet to the figure's
left were five beings of similar height; wearing luminous brown
metallic suits. The figures had large heads, long arms with
long, thin fingers, and slit-like mouths, and were illuminated
by a surrounding light. Three of the figures, including the
robed one (who "seemed to be the leader"), came into the house.
Then the main witness accompanied them to a "craft" landed near
the house. He remembered nothing else until morning. Even then
his memory of what had happened was hazy. He thought he had
dreamed the incident. However, a round, burned circle, 20 feet
from the house and 25 feet in diameter, confirmed the reality of
the previous night's strange events. Even so, family members did
not discuss the incident until many years later. Clark noted
that the letter never stated or implied that the writer had been
abducted . All he said was that after a certain point he had no
memory of what happened to him. His description of the entities
resembled familiar recent descriptions of the "Grays."
Unfortunately, J.Allen Hynek, the Center for UFO Studies
director to whom the letter was directed, did not follow up on
the letter. [Clark, "From Mermaids to Little Gray Men"
('Anomalist', No. 8, Spring 2000), pp. 23-24]

At 10:45 PM on the night of October 18, 1954, a young
Frenchwoman, Mlle. Bouriot, traveling by moped near Lake Saint-
Point in Doubs, Franche-Comt=E9 (eastern France), saw a bright red
light ahead of her on Route N437. It suddenly went out. Her
moped lights then showed three figures along the side of the
road. One was a completely motionless man of medium height,
wearing a hat and a trenchcoat. Next to him stood two small
beings, who then walked across the road in front of Mlle.
Bouriot, at a distance of about 30 feet. Frightened by the deep
strangeness of the incident, she sped away. At one point she
looked behind her and saw a red, oval-shaped UFO take off,
crossing the lake at high speed. The next day some local people
who had heard the story went to the site and found footprints of
very small feet there. When interviewed by a French ufologist in
1968, she stuck to her story and rejected the suggested
explanation that she had seen Boy Scouts. French ufologist Jean-
Luc Rivera, who described the incident to Jerome Clark,
suggested that Mlle. Bouriot saw an abduction in progress. The
motionless state of the human figure recalled the idea that some
persons are "switched off" during an abduction. [Jerome Clark,
"From Mermaids to Little Gray Men," pp. 20-21; Jacques Vallee,
'Passport to Magonia' [Chicago: Henry Regnery Co., 1969], Case
286, pp 233-234, citing: Quincy; Aim=E8 Michel, 'Flying Saucers
and the Straight-Line Mystery' (S.G. Phillips, 1958), p. 197;
'Lumi=E8res dans la Nuit' (Le-Chambon- sur-Lignon, France) 97]

At 3 AM on March 23, 1956, lab technician James Bassett,
suffering from a bout of insomnia, was walking along the banks
of the Grand Michigan River in Grand Ledge, Michigan. He
suddenly "felt the presence of something." Looking up, Bassett
saw a rapidly descending metal sphere giving off an orange glow.
It stopped only 10 feet from him, and remained in place,
hovering four feet above the ground, for the next 10 minutes.
Bassett reported that during the encounter he "lost all track of
time" and had an unexplained feeling that the UFO was "trying to
contact" him. [Jerome Clark, "From Mermaids to Little Gray Men,"
p. 21, citing 'Lansing State Journal', March 23, 1956]

An unnamed soldier with the U.S. Army occupation forces in
Salzburg, Austria was allegedly abducted by a short space-suited
humanoid, taken to Mars, and returned to Earth in 1951,
according to the December 11, 1957 Prince George, British
Columbia Citizen. The former soldier supposedly walked into the
Citizen offices one day in December 1957, and told his weird
story to reporter Ron Powell. The soldier had been walking home
from work at 11 PM on the night of May 15, 1951, when a helmeted
figure stepped in front of him and paralyzed him with a pencil-
like weapon that made a click. The creature was shorter than the
soldier, with a white skin, and wore a dull silvery suit and a
transparent helmet. Its head was large, cylindrical, hairless,
with a very high forehead, large compound eyes like those of a
fly, no nose except for two holes, and a small slit-like mouth.
The being's torso was shaped like a tin can, its legs were of
"proportionate length," but its arms were shorter than a human's
and ended in a hand with three long fingers. The creature placed
a square black plate on the soldier's chest, floating him into a
large round UFO feet in diameter resting in a nearby field. The
craft shot off into space and flew to a planet the soldier
believed to be Mars. The craft landed there on a platform above
a field occupied by many other saucer-shaped vehicles. As his
captor got out, the soldier saw similar beings, and normal human
beings who did not acknowledge his presence. When the creature
returned, they took off and returned to Earth, to the spot where
the soldier had been captured. The creature clicked its pencil-
shaped device again at the soldier, removed the plate from his
chest, and departed in his craft. The soldier had the impression
that he was supposed to forget the incident, but the attempt at
induced amnesia failed. He rushed home, and found he had been
gone for one hour. Six years later, in 1957, he unburdened
himself of his weird experience by walking into the Citizen
offices and relating his story to newsman Powell. The story is
interesting with its similarity to many later abduction
accounts--but completely unsupported and unverified, with no
evidence even of the physical existence--much less the name--of
the soldier who allegedly told his tale to Ron Powell. [Clark,
"From Mermaids to Little Gray Men" ('Anomalist', No. 8, Spring
2000), pp. 22-23; Patrick Huyghe, 'The Field Guide to
Extraterrestrials: Based on Actual Eyewitness Accounts and
Sightings' (New York: Avon Books, 1996), pp. 34-45, citing
Charles Bowen, "Fantasy or Truth? A New Look at an Old Contact
Claim," 'Flying Saucer Review' 13, no.4 (July-August 1967): pp.
11-14]

American airman Fred Reagan claimed one of the very first UFO
abduction "medical examinations" in July 1951. Reagan reported
flying a Piper Cub near Goodman Base, Fort Knox when his plane
was struck by a pulsating rectangular UFO. As Reagan, who had no
parachute, and his wrecked aircraft fell through the air, he was
drawn upward and into the UFO by a "sticky, clinging force."
Inside, Reagan saw small glistening beings three feet tall
looking like "huge stalks of metallic asparagus." They spoke to
him in English and apologized for the accident. They then gave
him a medical examination, found that he had cancer, and removed
it. They later deposited Reagan, unconscious but without a
single bruise, in a farmer's field near the wreckage of his
aircraft. After falling several thousand feet, the engine had
embedded itself six feet into the ground. Less than a year
later, in May 1952, Reagan died at the Georgia State Asylum for
the Insane, of "degeneration of the brain tissue due to extreme
atomic radiation." Reagan's bizarre story sat unpublished in the
files of the editor of the English journal Flying Saucer Review
for over a decade, finally being published in 1969. [Patrick
Huyghe, 'The Field Guide to Extraterrestrials', p. 110, citing
Gordon Creighton, "Healing from UFOs," 'Flying Saucer Review'
15, no.5 (September-October 1969):pp. 20~21; Ovnis Database Casa
Juillet <www.geocities.com/ajuillet/Ovnis.htm>]

Writers like John A. Keel, Jacques Vallee, and Janet & Colin
Bord have pointed out interesting parallelisms and continuities
between modern UFO alien abductions and "CE III's," and
traditional folkloric tales of encounters with fairies, elves,
gnomes, leprechauns, and "little people." They have suggested
that the same phenomenon or entities underlie both traditional
"fairy" and modern "alien" encounter reports. As Jacques Vallee
declared, the "modern, global belief in flying saucers and their
occupants is identical to an earlier belief in the fairy faith,"
and the "entities described as the pilots of the craft" in
modern Close Encounter III and abduction reports are
"indistinguishable from the elves, sylphs, and 'lutins' of the
Middle Ages" (Jacques Vallee, 'Passport to Magonia: From
Folklore to Flying Saucers' [Chicago: Henry Regnery, 1969], 'p.
57). Modern UFO'logists, Vallee lamented, have "never recognized
the fact that beliefs identical yo those held today" by UFO
zealots "have recurred throughout recorded history and under
forms best adapted to the believer's country, race, and social
regime" (Vallee, 'Passport to Magonia', p. viii). "Aliens,"
writers like Vallee and Keel suggest, are just "fairies"
adopting a credibly modern "space age" guise--or "fairies" may
have been "aliens" adapting themselves to the beliefs of pre-
scientific cultures! In either case, the same phenomenon has
been with us for a long, long time, perhaps from prehistoric
times onward. Nothing has changed except the self-presentation
of the beings to match prevailing cultural beliefs. Kenneth
Arnold's June 1947 Mount Rainier sighting introduced nothing new
to the world=3D=3Donly a new understanding (or misunderstanding) of
an age-old phenomenon. There is thus no reason to believe that
extraterrestrials started visiting us in force in 1896, 1909,
1943, or 1947!

Thus, on this view, if people no longer report "fairies,"
"elves," "gnomes," or "little people" in Western industrial
countries as much as they used to in the past--or as they still
seemingly do even today in rural areas and "Third World"
countries--it is simply because the "same phenomenon" or "same
entities" have adopted a guise, costumes, props, and lingo more
in keeping with the beliefs, myths, and obsessions of a
technological space-age culture. Modern culture, on both its
"high" and popular levels, no longer believes in fairies, elves,
and "little people"--but does believe in at least the
possibility of extraterrestrial humanoid visitors. Modern
popular fantasy and imaginative literature, too, features
"spacemen" far more often than it does fairies, elves, and
gnomes--despite the continuing vogue of J.R.R. Tolkien's "Middle
Earth" tales based on traditional European folklore. The "same
entities," on this theory, have through the centuries variously
presented themselves as pagan nature-gods, "elementals,"
"fairies," "little people," djinn, angels, Christian saints, the
Virgin Mary, and space aliens, in accordance with the dominant
beliefs of a given time and place.

Indeed, books on UFO's and Close Encounter often describe
entities resembling traditional fairies or reptilian or frog-
like "cryptids," that are assumed to be "aliens" even though no
mysterious craft is reported nearby. The presumption of many
UFO'logists seems to be that any odd-looking humanoid, except
one obviously of the "Bigfoot, "Man-Ape," or "hairy hominid"
type, MUST be an extraterrestrial, even if no actual UFO is
mentioned by witnesses. Thus, Jacques Vallee listed a "frog-man"
seen at Juminda on the Estonian coast in 1938 or 1939 in his
list of UFO landings in Passport to Magonia, although no UFO was
actually mentioned. At Juminda in the Fall of 1938 (or 1939),
two witnesses observed a "frog-man" 1 meter (39-40 inches) tall,
with a round head, no neck, and a hump in front of the body. Its
mouth was a large, straight slit, while its eyes were like
smaller slits. Its skin was brown-green, and its hands were
normal. It walked in a peculiar "but elegant" fashion, its head
waving up and down while the legs moved "carefully." When
pursued, it accelerated very fast, with feet "fluttering." About
100 meters (300 feet) away it vanished completely. [Vallee,
'Passport to Magonia', pp. 189-190, Case 49, "personal"
informant]

We find the same presumption of a UFO connection with no actual
mention of a strange craft in several well-known creature
reports frequently discussed in UFO books. We see it, for
instance, in two famous reports of mysterious small humanoids
seen by motorists at roadsides at night in 1955: the three
grayish creatures with "froglike" faces seen by Robert Hunnicutt
at Branch Hill, Ohio in March, and the four grayish entities
with large eyes encountered by Margaret Symmonds near Stockton,
Georgia in July [Vallee, 'Passport to Magonia', pp. 248 (Case
361), 249-250 (Case 365); Coral Lorenzen, "UFO Occupants in
United States Reports," in Charles Bowen, ed., 'The Humanoids'
(Chicago: Henry Regnery, 1969), 149-150; Janet & Colin Bord,
'Unexplained Mysteries of the 20th Century'(Chicago:
Contemporary Books. 1989), pp. 150-151, 363. 380; Leonard H.
Stringfield, 'Situation Red: The UFO Siege' (New York: Fawcett
Crest, 1977), pp. 110-111, 114-116] The same goes for another
celebrated night-time roadside encounter--the dark hairy or
furry dwarf with glowing yellow- orange eyes and a pumpkin-
shaped head seen in June 1960 near Globe, Arizona by a woman
personally known to APRO director Coral Lorenzen [Janet and
Colin Bord. 'Unexplained Mysteries of the 20thCentury', pp. 152-
153. 357; Lorenzen, "UFO Occupant Reports in the United States,"
Bowen, 'The Humanoids', pp. 159-161].

The Juminda "frog-man" resembles grotesque small humanoids seen
by Beryl Hickey and her father at Mandurah, Western Australia,
in their house one night in 1930, and by a man gathering
Christmas trees on December 15, 1956 in woods near Derry, New
Hampshire--in both cases, again with no mention of a UFO. The
Mandurah creature was about 20 inches tall, glistened as though
wet or covered with oil, and had pink skin, big ears, a wide
slit mouth, bulging eyes covered with a film and "perfectly
formed little hands and feet." It squeaked in fright when the
Hickey father captured and dragged it outside with a prawning
net. The Derry dwarf was green and naked, with a wrinkled skin
resembling elephant hide, a high domed head, ears like a
bloodhound's, eyes with a film like a snake's, merely two holes
for a nose, short arms and legs, hands like stumps, and feet
with no toes. It a screeched when the witness tried to catch it.
The witness then fled [Bord and Bord, 'Unexplained Mysteries of
the Twentieth Century', pp. 147, 151-152].

Froggish-faced humanoids like those seen at Branch Hill in 1955
shade over into "giant frogs" and "lizard-men" usually claimed
by cryptozoology rather than UFO'logy. The Branch Hill frogfaces
were in fact seen not far from the haunts of the celebrated
"Loveland Frog," a 3- to 5-foot-tall frog-like or lizard-like
reptilian-looking creature seen at the Little Miami River near
Loveland, Ohio in 1972. A "Lizardman" was seen near Wayne, New
Jersey one night in November, 1974 by a motorist driving toward
White Meadow Lake, whose headlights caught a tall scaly greenish
humanoid and a reptilian face with bulging frog-like eyes and a
wide lipless mouth in his headlights [Bord and Bord,
'Unexplained Mysteries of the Twentieth Century', pp. 246-247,
376, C. Lewis Wiedemann, "Difficulties of Tracking Down the
Lizardman," 'Vestigia Newsletter' 3, p. 3; Calendar edited by
Jerome Clark, November 7, 2001, cited by Dale Bacon, private e-
mail communication, November 7, 2001]. Another "Lizardman," 7
feet tall with greenish lizard-like skin, large slanted glowing
red eyes, and 3- fingered hands terrorized people at a swamp
near Bishopville, South Carolina in July 1988 [Bord and Bord,
'Unexplained Mysteries of the Twentieth Century', p. 384;
"Bigfoot" <http://www.theoutlaws.com/unexplained5.htm>; "They
Live Part 4" <www.think-
aboutit.combranton/they'live'part4.htm>]. In none of these cases
were UFO's reported.

Other curious dwarfs and "little men," again with no UFO
connection, are more superficially human-like in appearance,
recalling the "little people" of folklore. They include the 20
bald-headed white-skinned "little men" in leather "knee-pants"
held up by suspenders seen walking in single file along a
roadside near Barron, Wisconsin one summer night in 1919 by 13-
year-old Harry Anderson while carrying oil back to a stranded
car. They also include bizarrely tiny humanoids, like the
"little man" the size of a "Coke bottle" seen near Dunn, North
Carolina in October 1976 by an 8-year-old boy and a 20- year-old
woman. Here, too, we have the rubbery-looking otherwise nude
"little man" 18 inches tall in a sombrero-like hat seen by three
farm boys in May 1913 near Farmersville, Texas as their dogs
attacked it and tore it to pieces, Again, four tiny beings 8
inches tall in white clothes and gray caps were seen by four
boys under a bridge over a muddy riverbed on August 10, 1973
near Ibague, Colombia [Bord and Bord, 'Unexplained Mysteries of
the Twentieth Century', pp 146-147, 155-157, 322, 379, 386,
390].

Sightings of all such odd, anomalous humanoid creatures that
cannot be too easily explained either as extraterrestrial
visitors or as relict pre-Sapiens hominids are a well-
rstablished if still totally mystifying and inexplicable
"experience anomaly." Do they show any historical tend over
time? My own personal impression is that they seem to be
manifesting less often in recent decades as fairies, gnomes, or
"little people" like those of traditional folklore or fairy-
tales, and more and more often as "frog-men" or "lizard-men."
Could that mean that our "Collective Unconscious" is influenced
less these days by folklore and fairy-tale than by science-
fictional imagery, less by the Grimm Brothers and more by comic
books and monster movies? Maybe so! Or maybe rather "They" are
adapting themselves to our own current fantasies and
preoccupations!

"Hard science" or "nuts and bolts" UFO and abduction
researchers, on the other hand, discount or downplay the
supposed resemblances and continuities between traditional fairy
and modern alien encounter stories. For such UFO'logist, the
chronological age or beginning of modern UFO and abduction
reports is a real and serious question, and the 1890's, World
War II, or 1947 may very well be real historical beginnings.
Something truly new in human experience started in the late 19th
century, or during or right after World War II, they believe,
strongly suggestive of extraterrestrial visitation by flesh-
and-blood aliens in nuts-and-bolts spaceships, rather than of
whatever underlay traditional "fairy" or "little people"
stories. All this, of course, depends on the belief that
something very different from past "fairy" and "little people"
encounters did begin happening in the 1890's, with "close
encounters" with "Martians" quite different from traditional
"fairies" and "gnomes."

Temple University UFO phenomenon historian and abduction
researcher David M. Jacobs, for instance, complained that UFO
skeptics connecting abduction stories to traditional myth,
legend, and folklore "lump together all folklore accounts of
=91little people,' gnomes, trolls, dwarfs," and similar mythical
humanoids, "no matter what the context," with abductions "simply
because these characters are small or because they ate said to
have supernatural powers." They "disconnect such folktales from
trheir original social and cultural context" and then "present
them as fact in a completely different milieu." However, they
"present only vague and general similarities" between the
"abduction phenomenon" and "myth, legend, and folklore," like
"superficial stories about =91changelings,' little people, or gods
who live in the heavens." For such "adherents of the folklore
hypothesis," Jacobs felt, ""facile resemblances become complete
modern duplicates" [David M. Jacobs, 'Secret Life: Firsthand
Accounts of UFO Abductions' (New York: Simon & Schuster, 1992),
p. 298]

Folktales, Jacobs continued, also became "evidence that the UFO
abduction phenomenon has been going on for centuries." He
conceded that "hundreds of folktales" had been collected about
"little people, giants, gods, flying machines, people being
kidnapped by trolls," and "other material" that "the uninformed
might decide were like the UFO and abduction phenomenon"
[Jacobs, 'Secret Life', pp. 298-299]. However, Jacobs argued,
the "actual content of myths, legends, and folktales" had
"almost nothing in common with abduction accounts." He pointed
out that "typically, folktales, myths, and legends have been
orally transmitted," and "changed and altered over the years
depending on the =91spin' that the teller puts on the tale." That
"alteration" was "determined by the personality of the teller
and the culture in which he lives," so that folklore is a
"dynamic process that is constantly changing." Thus, finding the
"kernel of truth that may lie behind the tale" was "often
impossible." Abduction victims, on the other hand, "are not
telling stories that they had previously heard from other
people," but rather "relating accounts of sometimes ongoing
events that they believe happened to them " personally [Jacobs,
'Secret Life', p. 299].

Merpeople--"mermaids" and "mermen," creatures with the heads,
arms, and upper torsos of men or women and the rear body parts
and tails of fishes--were apparently quite often seen in the
Mediterranean and the Atlantic Ocean in ancient, mediaeval, and
early-modern times, even in the 19thcentury, but thereafter have
been reported only quite rarely. In the 20th century,
"merbeings" or "merfolk" of a sort have been reported from
waters near certain South Pacific islands, notably from around
Morotai in Indonesia and New Ireland southeast of Papua New
Guinea. However, they no longer seem to be encountered in
Atlantic or Mediterranean waters. Whether we interpret them as
still-unknown marine animals or as totally mysterious
"experience anomalies," merpeople do seem to be a phenomenon
that has largely "had its day." Has a real marine animal become
extinct in its former Atlantic and Mediterranean haunts while
perhaps still surviving in the South Pacific? Or, has an
"experience anomaly" of ultimately "psychic" or
"parapsychological" origin become a less popular or fashionable
archetype in the Collective Unconscious? Like "fairies," have
the entities responsible for traditional "merfolk" reports
adopted a more up-to-date space-age "UFO alien" guise in our
time? Is the mediaeval French mermaid princess M=E9lusine still
alive in our high-tech 21st century, now inserting anal probes
into hapless UFO abductees? Or did M=E9lusine abduct and seduce
Ant=F4nio Villas-Boas in 1957?

Crop circles seem to be a completely new Fortean phenomenon of
our own time. Cereologists(as crop circle researchers call
themselves) have cited a famous English possible crop circle
from 1647-- which other cereologists have dismissed as too vague
and problematical. Whether or not a crop circle did appear in
17th century England. They remained pretty rare, at best, for
300 years. In the 1960's, we did begin to hear occasionally of
"UFO nests," roughly circular or elliptical areas of flattened
vegetation in areas of reputed recent or current UFO activity.
The best-known such "UFO nest" was a circular area of flattened
reeds in a swamp near a farm in Tully, Queensland, Australia in
1966, where the farmer had actually seen a "flying saucer"
rising into the air from the spot where he later found the
flattened reeds. At first, though, they were interpreted in a
comparatively prosaic light, simply as matter-of-fact physical
effects of a landed "flying saucer's" weight on the vegetation
beneath, interesting only as evidence that an unknown heavy
object had indeed landed at a certain locality.

It was only in the late 1980's, however, when complex geometric
crop circles began appearing in Great Britain and Western
Europe, that UFO'logists and Fortean researchers began thinking
in terms of a wholly new anomalous phenomenon, and cereology was
born as a separate new Fortean sub- discipline. We no longer had
simple circles or ellipses of crushed vegetation merely
suggesting a big, heavy object having recently lain there. We
now had complex geometric and artistic patterns definitely
suggesting somebody or something trying to send us a message of
some sort. It was no longer just a question of a flying saucer
crushing the vegetation under it as it landed. It was a MESSAGE,
or at least a GAME, of some sort! As far as I know, NOTHING like
this had EVER happened in the 1950's or 1960's--not even at
Tully in Queensland! Certainly, the 1647 English crop circle
seemed to present no such message and play no such game! Here,
it seems, we really did have a qualitatively new Fortean
phenomenon unknown until very recent times!

I myself wondered recently if yet another new anomaly might be
emerging now in the form of rocks inexplicably placed on
treetops. In April, 2003, I read some reports on boulders
recently found mysteriously perched atop trees in Indiana's
Yello...







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   Mar > Mar 19

               Re: 'The Truth' According To Greer - Stevenson

From: Colin Stevenson <colsweb.nul>
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 17:43:04 -0000
Fwd Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 08:50:43 -0500
Subject: Re: 'The Truth' According To Greer - Stevenson


>From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 08:41:01 -0600
>Subject: Re: 'The Truth' According To Greer

>>From: Wendy Connors <fadeddiscs.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 19:58:41 -0700
>>Subject: Re: 'The Truth' According To Greer

>><snip>

>>>THE TRUTH
>>>(THE POWER ELITES DON'T WANT YOU TO KNOW)

>>>You are invited to spend 5 days with Dr. Greer at his farm in
>>>Virginia to hear what he has learned after 14 years of
>>>investigations

<snip>

It could be worth going if he has one or more of these there;

http://befreetech.com/techpage.htm

Just to see if it actually is what he 'dropped' although its a
little larger than he claimed.

Credit where credit is due for what he may have started. Free
electricity and 20 Kilowatts of it.


Kind wishes

Col






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   Mar > Mar 19

                  Re: No Flow Of Gulf Breeze Money - Kaeser

From: Steven Kaeser <steve.nul>
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 14:04:37 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 08:51:49 -0500
Subject: Re: No Flow Of Gulf Breeze Money - Kaeser


>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 10:28:33 -0600
>Subject: Re: No Flow Of Gulf Breeze Money

<snip>

>Thanks and congratulations, Robert. Through your good efforts we
>can now lay this little exercise in ufological McCarthyism to
>rest and put it where it belongs: deep and irrecoverably into
>the memory hole.

I appreciate the effort as well, but I regret that the lack of
proof hasn't been a problem in the past.


Steve







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   Mar > Mar 19

              Re: More Strange Sightings This Time In The Air -

From: Ron Decker <decker.nul>
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 13:15:54 -0600
Fwd Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 08:53:22 -0500
Subject: Re: More Strange Sightings This Time In The Air -


>Source: The Tahlequah Daily Press, Tahlequah, Oklahoma

>http://tahlequahdailypress.com/articles/2004/03/04/news/top_stories/aaaflying.p
rt

>March 4, 2004

>More Strange Sightings, This Time In The Air

>By Eddie Glenn, Press Staff Writer

>Yesterday, when we ended our discussion of strange sightings in
>Cherokee County, the topic was Bigfoot, that large hairy beast
>who walks upright and allegedly digs through people's trash.

<snip>

In 1970 I had friends who lived near Tahlequah while attending
college. They lived out and heated their home with wood.

One summer day while they were resting from their wood chopping
labors and enjoying a cup of coffee they heard a whirring noise
that was followed by clicking. They couldn't locate the source
of the noises until they looked up. They spotted two UFOs above
the tree tops following the course of a creek bed not far from
where they were cutting wood. The UFOs would move and the
whirring sound would be produced. Then the UFOs stopped and the
clicking would start. They watched the pair of UFOs go through
this routine until they disappeared around the corner of a
hollow, about ten minutes in all. All the while the UFOs whirred
and clicked.

Per my friends the UFOs were not large and were of a silver
color.


Best regards,

Ron Decker








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   Mar > Mar 19

             Re: A Movie Musical About UFOs And Aliens! - McCoy

From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy.nul>
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 12:04:23 -0800
Fwd Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 09:44:59 -0500
Subject: Re: A Movie Musical About UFOs And Aliens! - McCoy


>From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 08:48:21 -0600
>Subject: Re: A Movie Musical About UFOs And Aliens!

>>From: Chris Rutkowski <rutkows.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 14:33:03 -0600
>>Subject: A Movie Musical About Ufos And Aliens!

>A few years back I had an idea for a stage musical based on
>George Adamski. I envisioned it as a kind of early 60's rock 'n
>roll love story in the "Little Shop of Horrors" mode. I wouldn't
>follow the story exactly. Some literary license. Adamski as the
>lonely outcast dreamer, a hot dog vendor at an observatory who
>discovers and is contacted by aliens. He falls in love with a
>particularly hot Venusian girl. Love triangle with Mrs. Adamski.
>A climactic rally at Big Rock, where nothing happens and
>everybody goes home disappointed. Adamski flies off with his
>Venusian sweetheart in the end. Pretty simple, but fun. Maybe
>Steve Martin as Adamski.

>Angels, please send seed money. ;)

I vote Bette Midler as Mrs. Adamski.

The Venusian "Space Babe" needs to be a little strange, like say
Courtney Love, but Courtney may haver own problems now.....


GT McCoy









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   Mar > Mar 19

                         Re: JPL's Mars UFO - Shell

From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 14:14:07 -0600
Fwd Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 09:46:25 -0500
Subject: Re: JPL's Mars UFO - Shell


>From: Colin Stevenson <colsweb.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 16:49:46 -0000
>Subject: Re: JPL's Mars UFO

>>From: Paul Anderson <paulanderson.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 14:34:33 -0800
>>Subject: Re: JPL's Mars UFO

>>>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 23:42:48 -0400
>>>Subject: Re: JPL's Mars UFO - Ledger

>>>I'd say a reflection off a flat faced rock, Nick. I note another
>>>reflection in the foreground as well.

>Not only a reflection but what seems like a Monkey head a carved
>face and a stone balustrading or something or maybe its the
>cylindrical body of a space craft which someone can identify?

>http://www.colsweb.com/MarsMonkey.gif

>http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/2/n/067/2N132319976EFF1800P1816L0>M1
.JPG

>>>Is your last paragraph suggesting that either Mar's 2 and 3
>>>might be a possible reason for the reflections?

>Did NASA or USSR send a Monkey to Mars in the past? Could Mars
>be the actual 'Planet of the Apes' :-)

My "Dead Martian" picture is better than that one:

http://www.cpu-net.com/host/shell/deadmartian.jpg








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   Mar > Mar 19

                        Re: JPL's Mars UFO - Balaskas

From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul>
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 14:54:23 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
Fwd Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 09:47:14 -0500
Subject: Re: JPL's Mars UFO - Balaskas


>From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 11:10:35 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
>Subject: Re: JPL's Mars UFO

>>From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 08:22:32 -0600
>>Subject: Re: JPL's Mars UFO

>>>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
>>>To:  ufoupdates.nul
>>>Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 18:25:20 -0400
>>>Subject: Re: JPL's Mars UFO

>>>Note the interesting use of "UFO" in this JPL URL re an anomally
>>>in the Martian sky taken by Rover's cameras.

>>>I wonder, would this be a time lapse of Earth?

>>>Watch the wrap, the URL is long.

>>>http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/press/spirit/20040311a/Earth_Sol63A_UF
O-A067R1.jpg

>>I know they were going to try and image the moons. I'm guessing
>>(debunking) that this might be one of them, on a time-lapse
>>photo.

<snip>

>These two Martian moons were photographed by the Opportunity
>rover (Deimos on March 4 and Phobos on March 7) as they
>crossed the face of the Sun and would have a large angular size
>as seen from the surface of Mars. The brightness or thickness of
>this streak and its orientation relative to the Martian horizon
>agrees with NASA's belief that it is more likely to be a
>spacecraft and that it is in a polar orbit.

>Meteors do produce luminous streaks but they do not appear and
>disappear so abruptly. Long exposures of orbiting satellites
>with a camera would produce this effect though. Although the Sun
>was already below the Martian horizon, if what was photographed
>was indeed a spacecraft orbiting high above the planet, it would
>still shine brightly from the direct rays from the Sun. This
>would suggest that this image was a large object in space and
>would rule out Martian birds, bugs or wind blown soil which
>would be appear dark in the night sky.

<snip>

>Conclusion: Unless it can be proven that NASA's Viking 1 and 2
>motherships are still in orbit around Mars over a quarter of a
>century later, what we have here is a real UFO in the Martian
>sky! Thanks to Don Ledger for bring it to our attention...

<snip>

Hi Everyone!

Today's BBC news story on JPL's Mars UFO that was written by Dr.
David Whitehouse agrees with us that this unexplainable streak
in the Martian sky is a "UFO" (their term)!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/3520636.stm


Nick Balaskas








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   Mar > Mar 19

                Re: UFO Magazine Folds After Editor's Death -

From: John Rimmer <jrimmer.nul>
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 20:55:17 +0000
Fwd Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 09:48:34 -0500
Subject: Re: UFO Magazine Folds After Editor's Death -


>From: Roy Hale <roy.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 14:42:38 -0000
>Subject: Re: UFO Magazine Folds After Editor's Death

>>From: From: Joe McGonagle <joe.mcgonagle.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 22:43:04 -0000
>>Subject: Re: UFO Magazine Folds After Editor's Death

>>I did not forget, please don't put words in my mouth. Is it your
>>opinion that all material presented as research in printed
>>format always stands up to closer scrutiny? Well you are welcome
>>to your opinions, I'll stick to the facts - on the odd occasion
>>when a magazine presents an article as research, the so-called
>>research does not always stand up to scrutiny.

>Do you believe that after 50 years of FSR being published, their
>article research stands up to scrutiny?

>>The direct answer is that no change in my position, with regard
>>to FSR, occured between the posts which are under discussion. If
>>you still don't understand I am sorry, I can't help you.

>So if there is no change in your position, you still feel that
>FSR is a magazine for stories, right!

>It is not my opinion that is in question, you fell into the trap
>of mocking one of the UKs most established UFO magazines.

If that was a trap, allow me to jump in feet first. FSR may be
an 'established magazine' in the sense that it's been around for
a long time, but it's also been a long time since it published
any serious UFO reports - in effect since the death of Charles
Bowen and Gordon Creighton's assumption of the editiorship.

There has been very little printed in FSR over the past 20 years
which stands up to any critical scrutiny whatsoever - not even
the date on the cover in some cases.

>You now advocate people to subscribe to FSR, and you deserved to
>be pulled up and asked on how such a change had occured within a
>few months from your reply to my original mail.

I can't answer from Joe McGonagle, but I wouldn't advocate
anyone subscribing to FSR, least of all any former readers of
(UK) UFO Magazine. Whatever you think about its contents, it was
a porfessionally produced piece of work, which gave its readers
what they wanted. They would be very disapponted by what FSR has
(had? I haven't seen it round lately) to offer.

>And besides, aren't you a sceptic? What would a sceptic be
>doing asking people to subscribe to a Pro Humanoid Contact
>Magazine? Am I the only person on this List who finds this odd?

I have to say, Roy, I agree with you on this; I do find Joe's
advice quite surprising. There is, of course, still one of the
UK's most established UFO magazines still around, and going from
strength to strength by not indulging in crazy sensationism.

--
John Rimmer
Magonia Magazine
www.magonia.demon.co.uk/arc/00/newmag.htm








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   Mar > Mar 19

             Re: Spielberg & Cruise 'War of The Worlds' - Sandow

From: Greg Sandow <greg.nul>
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 15:57:19 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 09:49:33 -0500
Subject: Re: Spielberg & Cruise 'War of The Worlds' - Sandow


>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 07:50:49 -0800
>Subject: Spielberg & Cruise 'War of The Worlds'

>Wells' War of the Worlds novel was first published in 1898
>but achieved a whole new level of notoriety in American
>culture when Orson Welles' Mercury Theater adapted it into a
>now-infamous 1938 live radio drama.

>Since then, there have been numerous attempts made to
>resurrect War of the Worlds on film, but all failed save a
>little-known TV series in the late '80s, the report adds.

Not so. A movie based on the book was a big success in 1953, and
still is lots of fun to watch.

That fllm updated the story, so we earthlings fight the invading
Martians with jet planes and atomic bombs, instead of with
artillery, as H. G. Wells described. I'd love to know if
Spielberg will set his movie in the present day, or (which I'd
love to see) in the 1890s.


Greg Sandow








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   Mar > Mar 19

                        Re: JPL's Mars UFO - Anderson

From: Paul Anderson <paulanderson.nul>
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 13:40:08 -0800
Fwd Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 09:58:56 -0500
Subject: Re: JPL's Mars UFO - Anderson


>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 11:47:24 -0400
>Subject: Re: JPL's Mars UFO - Ledger

>Thanks Paul,

>Received this as an explanation from Nick Balaskas as well.

>JPL should have photos of these on record to begin with. I'm
>sure they would want to know the condition of the hardware used
>to land the craft on the Martian surface. I think the scientists
>at JPL are in overload mode. There's probably too much
>information coming in for them to key their photographs in any
>meaningful manner.


Hi Don,

No problem. They showed a closeup of it also in today's JPL
press briefing and you can see it in the wonderful new colour
panorama released today (I'm anxious to get closer to some of
those hills!):

http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/press/spirit/20040318a/07-JG-01-pan-A074R
1_br2.jpg

(1 mb)

http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/press/spirit/20040318a/07-JG-01-pan-A074R
1.jpg

(9.5 mb)


Paul








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                    NUFORC: Brooksville Forida 03-118-04

From: Peter Davenport - NUFORC <director.nul>
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 13:51:41 -0800
Fwd Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 10:02:08 -0500
Subject: NUFORC: Brooksville Forida 03-118-04


National UFO Reporting Center

To the List:

NUFORC received an interesting report this morning, which I
thought the members of the list might find interesting.

In brief, a gentleman was driving west on a rural highway near
Brooksville, FL, when he noticed a cluster of distinctly red
lights some distance ahead, which he could not ascribe to any
type of vehicle he was familiar with. When he got within an
estimated 400 feet of the objects, each of which was some 5
inches in diameter, he estimated, they all streaked off in
different directions.

The copied report is below:

[Begin Copied Report]

100 Date: 03/18/2004
110 Time: 01:00
120 Duration: 5 to 10 mins
130 Sighting City: Brooksville
140 Sighting State: fl
150 Sighting Zip: 34609
160 Sighting County: Hernando
170 Witnesses: self
172 Shape: Formation
168 Number of Craft: unknown
180 Summary: strange array of lights suddenly appear about 1/2
mile in front of my truck, in Brooksville Florida.

190 Description: I was traveling west on Ayers Rd, in
Brooksville, Florida about 3 miles east of the RR crossing, I
was the only vehicle on the road at the time, I had my cruise
control set at 55MPH, had my hi-beams on, all of the sudden
these red lights appeared on the road ahead of me about a half
mile away, it was very odd the pattern of red lights didnt match
any vehicle that I was familiar with. I first thought this is
huge what ever it is, it covered both lanes, about 30 ft wide
and about 20 ft high with the one lone light on the other lane
(east bound) was flashing. As I got closer, I slowed down,
turned off my high beams, I realized this moving object is not a
vehicle, I could see the trucks passing north and south on US41
through the lights, all of the sudden as I got closer about 400
feet away these lights all vanished in different directions, and
the red lights went off simuntaneously...as they scattered. this
all lasted about 5 to 10 minutes.

[End Copied Report]


We find the report interesting, given its similarity to another
report we received in April 2003 from three adults in Meriwether
County, Georgia. They reported a cluster of red lights inside
their vehicle for several seconds, which, at one point during
the event, reportedly clustered around an abdominal scar of one
of the occupants of the vehicle. The lights seemed to be "aware"
of the scar, and perhaps its significance! The red lights, about
the size of marbles, suddenly disappeared from the vehicle as
quickly as they had first appeared.

The latter case was investigated by Georgia MUFON, State
Director, Tom Sheets. The Field Investigators were Jim Clifford,
Deputy Director, Olivia Newton, State Section Director. Their
report can be read on the NUFORC site at:

http://www.nuforc.org/webreports/032/S32497.html


Peter
--
Peter B. Davenport, Director
National UFO Reporting Center
P. O. Box 45623
University Station
Seattle, WA 98145
E-Mail: director.nul
Web:   www.UFOCENTER.com
Reporting Hotline: (206) 722-3000







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   Mar > Mar 19

                            Mars Rover Spots UFO

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 10:05:06 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 10:05:06 -0500
Subject: Mars Rover Spots UFO




Source: The Washington Post

http://washingtontimes.com/upi-breaking/20040318-024341-6787r.htm

03-18-04


Mars Rover Spots UFO

PASADENA, Calif., March 18 (UPI) -- NASA scientists said
Thursday the Spirit rover on Mars apparently has spotted an
unidentified flying object streaking across the planet's sky.

The scientists said the object could be the first meteor seen
from the surface of another planet, or another NASA spacecraft
sent to explore Mars nearly 30 years ago.

The sighting was an accident. Spirit was photographing the
Martian sky with its panoramic camera when one of the images it
sent back to Earth contained a streak -- the brightest object in
the sky at the time.

Spirit's mission controllers said the streak probably was a
meteor entering the thin Martian atmosphere at high speed.
However, it also could have been the Viking 2 orbiter, which was
sent to Mars in 1976. Though the craft's power systems shut down
years ago, it is still circling the red planet in a polar orbit
-- a path that matches the direction of the streak in Spirit's
photograph.







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   Mar > Mar 19

                 Re: 'The Truth' According To Greer - Hatch

From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 14:30:58 -0800
Fwd Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 10:08:46 -0500
Subject: Re: 'The Truth' According To Greer - Hatch


>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 18:03:41 -0500
>Subject: Re: 'The Truth' According To Greer

>>Source: CSETI


>>http://www.cseti.org/programs/bookdictation2004.htm


>>THE TRUTH
>>(THE POWER ELITES DON'T WANT YOU TO KNOW)

>>You are invited to spend 5 days with Dr. Greer at his farm in
>>Virginia to hear what he has learned after 14 years of
>>investigations

>>Start Date/Time: Sunday April 18, 2004 6 pm
>>End Date/Time: Thursday, April 22, 2004 midnight


>>Limited to 15 people, this unique event will be an oral
>>presentation of the unvarnished truth. Designed to be the core
>>of Dr. Greer's next book, at these presentations you will be
>>privy to what really happens behind the scenes and to how the
>>world's evolution has been hijacked for nearly a century by
>>craven power interests.

<snip>

>>+ Who has stolen the free energy technologies - and why

<snip>

>>Fee: A minimum $600 donation to The Disclosure Project (more is
>>appreciated).

<snip>

>>+ We reserve the right to select the 15 people from the list of
>>applicants.

>>+ Everyone will be required to sign a Non-Disclosure Agreement.

[!]

>Astonishing! Let's recall that he requires, "A minimum $600
>donation to The Disclosure Project (more is appreciated)."

>Considering the fact that people shall have shelled out a
>minimum of $600 each, you think he'd allow them the right to
>freedom of speech! Even if it what Greer offers were free, you'd
>still hope he would allow them the right to freedom of speech!

>One could suspect - based on what I've heard of Greer from his
>former friends - that he's actually afraid that if those who
>were there were to tell what they were told by him, he might be
>shown up as a charlatan and snake oil salesman. After all, he
>claims to have repeatedly been aboard spacecraft with his space
>friends, or so people who say they have wised up to Greer tell
>me! But, those who know him and have talked to me say they don't
>believe a word of his reportedly self-aggrandizing claims.


>So, takers of his offer must fork out a donation of "a minimum
$600 to the Disclosure Project" and sign a non-disclosure
statement!

>Shouldn't it be paid to the Non-Disclosure Project?!!! -
>instead of to the Disclosure Project? :-o

>And Greer's a doctor? Some might wonder whether medical
>training could have enabled him to realize that there are people
>out there with less brains than money.

Hello Ray:

I'm astonished. Not so much by the minimum $600 each from the hand
picked list of attendees, religious/mystical frauds often do that.

And not so much by the non-disclosure agreement, certain kinds of
religions even do that.

I'm blown away by "claims to have repeatedly been aboard
spacecraft with his space friends.."

Are you sure you have that right, and can it be traced back to
something he said? I'm completely blind-sided by this.

If so, we have a first-class CONTACTEE on our hands! (Sorry for
shouting, I meant to say _contactee_ )

This is really really ripe. Please keep us posted.


Best wishes

- Larry








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   Mar > Mar 19

               Re: 'The Mythologist' AKA Armen Victorian/Henry

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 17:55:02 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 10:12:10 -0500
Subject: Re: 'The Mythologist' AKA Armen Victorian/Henry


>From: Joe McGonagle <joe.mcgonagle.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 1:38:15 +0000
>Subject: 'The Mythologist' AKA Armen Victorian/Henry Azadehdel

>John Lundberg emailed me to say that "The Mythologist", a
>documentary film which he directed about Henry Azadehdel aka
>Armen Victorian will be broadcast in the UK on BBC4 at 10:40pm
>next Thursday 25th March. This should be a fascinating
>programme, If you have the opportunity to see it then don't pass
>it up!

>More details, including short clips from the film and details of
>some of the people that appear on it or were involved in it's
>production can be found at:

>http://www.mythologist.co.uk

Henry! What a guy!

I nailed him the first time he called me. I think he probably
called me a second time, but I'm not sure. I think he called
more than once or twice because I dd not offer him any
particular help or information.

I can't recall everything we discussed the first (only?) time he
called. It was back in the latter half of the 80's, but I don't
recall what year. (1987, 1988?) I was impressed because he was
calling all the way from England and wanted to talk about UFOs
and abductions. Obviously he wanted to know what I knew about
it. We probably talked about government cover up and so on
(documents from CIA, FBI, AF intel and perhaps MJ-12) but I
can't be certain of this. After all, it was 15 or more years ago
He talked a good line about his experiences in the field of UFO
research, etc. He portrayed himself as a "fellow traveler" in
the field of UFO investigation. (This was before he became a
"known entity" as Armen Victorian ).

But then he slipped up. We were talking about abduction research,
I believe he said he basically agreed with Budd. I was interested
as to how he would know whether Budd was correct or not and Henry
referred to his own extensive research with abductees.

I asked him how many he had worked with.

I expected him to say that he had worked with a few abductees,
probably using hypnosis. What he did say caught me by surprise
and is the reason I still remember it: "I've worked with 700
abductees."

I was startled. This seemed like an impossibly huge number and
yet, no one (that I knew) had ever heard of him.

Keeping a cool voice I responded something like this: "Is that
so? And where were these abductees?"

"Some in England but mostly in India."

After he hung up I was left with the impression that for some
reason I didn't know, he was probably was a fake. I thought that
perhaps he was trying to impress me with his knowledge.

How did I know the guy was blowing smoke? Because I was well
aware of the state of abduction research. I knew from the work
of Eddie Bullard that there were only a couple hundred known
abductee cases (Bullard's catalogue listed, I think, 300 cases
known worldwide in the middle '80's, most of which had not been
thoroughly investgated). I knew how much time investigators like
Budd Hopkins and Dave Jacobs, had spent with individual
abductees.

I knew that investigations sometimes took years, I concluded
that no one could have thoroughly researched 700 cases even if
they were all in one place.

Ever since then I have treated information from "Victorian" or
Azedehdel with a grain of salt, unless it was backed up by other
sources of information.








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   Mar > Mar 19

                          Evidence Of Life On Mars

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 20:04:55 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 10:18:17 -0500
Subject: Evidence Of Life On Mars


Source: Space.Com

http://space.com/missionlaunches/mars_blueberries_040317.html

17 March 2004


Mystery Spheres on Mars Finally Identified
By Leonard David
space.com

Using the M=F6ssbauer Spectrometer mounted on Opportunity's robot
arm, a group of the tiny spherules (called "blueberries,"
although they aren't really blue) has been examined and
identified as hematite.

-----

Now, for List members, I have this comment:

JPL/NASA do not tell us that hematite forms as spheres on earth
due to expanding colonization by ferrophagic bacteria, which
consume iron and excrete it as hematite, which expands
spherically. I think it very likely that this kind of thing
formed the "blueberries" on Mars.

Let us not forget, however, that at least some of the
"blueberries" indisputably have 'stems'! Those that have been
clearly shown to have 'stems' strongly suggest that some other
form of life made at least the stem part and probably the
"blueberry" and 'stem' combinations, even though the same kind
of ferrophagic colonization probably filled the cavities (left
by other life) with hematite. In that case, the hematite
possibly grew from the cavity walls, inwardly, filling the voids
and creating a hematite fossil cast, just as seen in some
terrestrial fossils and ichnites.

In releasing the analysis of the "blueberries" as hematite, I
suggest that the JPL/NASA people have this time really 'cooked
their goose' of allegation that no evidence of life on Mars,
past or present, has been found, even if the goose was not fully
cooked by their earlier admission that the "blueberries" are
"concretions" (as suggested in one my earlier postings).

I say it is time for the JPL/NASA nay sayers to 'fess up'
(confess their error, or their cover-up, whichever it was).


Ray Stanford

"You know my method. It is founded upon the observance of
trifles." -- Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery








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   Mar > Mar 19

                 Re: Aztec UFO Fest Opens Friday - Stanford

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 20:16:28 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 10:19:44 -0500
Subject: Re: Aztec UFO Fest Opens Friday - Stanford


>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 11:26:33 -0800
>Subject: Aztec UFO Fest Opens Friday

>Source: The Daily Times - Farmington, New Mexico
>http://www.daily-times.com/artman/publish/article_9513.shtml
>Mar 17, 2004

>Aztec UFO fest opens Friday
>by Debra Mayeux/The Daily Times

>AZTEC - Fifty-six years ago on a small, dirt road north of
>Aztec, something unexplainable happened.

Hello Frank, and all at the Farmington Times:

Well, this is a lot cheaper than Dr. Greer's $400 hootenanny
back east. Free Energy costs a lot extra I suppose.

Hi Larry,

Correction: I know it is hard to believe, but Greer wants a
minimum of $600, not the mere mere $400 you mention!

Amusing, perhaps: In writing Greer's name, above, I initially
made a typographic error and typed the last letter as a d
instead of as an r!

How in the world could I have ever made a mistake like that?!
:-o

Ray Stanford

"You know my method. It is founded upon the observance of
trifles." -- Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery








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   Mar > Mar 19

                          Mars UFO Crops Up On BBC

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 20:33:04 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 10:23:37 -0500
Subject: Mars UFO Crops Up On BBC


The BBC has finally picked up on the "UFO" (JPL's own name for
it on the photo's identification, not mine) photographed on
Mars:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/3520636.stm

Please read it at their website.

Meantime, let me comment:

Note that JPL admits that if the thing that made the streak was
a man-made satellite, due to orbital considerations, it would
necessarily have only been Viking 2.

Important: What they don't tell us is that they know where
Viking 2 would have been, and if Viking 2 could really account
for it, they would have told us so by now.

I suggest it was not a meteor (the trail does not seem correct)
and that it was likely an object of technological origin that
did not originate on earth.

Furthermore, I suspect JPL/NASA realize that by now. I further
suspicion that such is no surprise to them.


Ray Stanford

"You know my method. It is founded upon the observance of
trifles." -- Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery








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   Mar > Mar 19

             Re: Near-Earth Asteroid Record-Breaking Approach -

From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul>
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 20:44:42 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
Fwd Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 10:26:36 -0500
Subject: Re: Near-Earth Asteroid Record-Breaking Approach -


>From: Scott Caput <caput.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 09:09:51 -0500
>Subject: Near-Earth Asteroid Record-Breaking Approach

>I thought the List might find this interesting.

<snip>

>http://neo.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news142.html

>Steven R. Chesley
>Paul W. Chodas
>NASA's Near Earth Object Program Office
>Wednesday, March 17, 2004

>A small near-Earth asteroid (NEA), discovered Monday night by
>the NASA-funded LINEAR asteroid survey, will make the closest
>approach to Earth ever recorded.....

<snip>

Hi Everyone!

I want to remind Steven Chesley and Paul Chodas* that the very
small asteroid "2004FH" (estimated to be only about 100 feet
across) was NOT the closest such asteroid to approach Earth in
recent times.

In August 10, 1972 one such small asteroid actually grazed the
Earth's atmosphere before skipping back out into space. The
trajectory of this asteroid took it over several mid-western
U.S. states and Alberta where the fireball was witnessed by many
and even filmed with a movie camera. The lowest point it came to
the Earth was about 40 miles over Montana. 2004FH was estimated
to have missed the Earth today by over 25,000 miles.

Initial estimates of the size of the asteroid in the 1972 near-
 miss were up to about 20 feet across, later revised up to sizes
over 250 feet if the asteroid had a composition similar to most
stoney meteors. The latest published estimates placed its size
somewhere between 10 and 50 feet across.

It is interesting to note that at 122 feet in length, the Space
Shuttle Columbia which broke up while entering Earth's
atmosphere with a velocity of about 5 miles a second was bigger
than either one of these two very small asteroids.


Nick Balaskas

*It was Paul Chodas who suggested that the mystery object or UFO
found to be orbiting the Earth nearly two years ago was the
third S-IVB stage (about 60 feet in length) of the Saturn V
rocket that propelled the Apollo 12 astronauts to the Moon.








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   Mar > Mar 19

               Re: 'The Mythologist' AKA Armen Victorian/Henry

From: Nick Pope <nick.nul>
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 01:59:23 -0000
Fwd Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 10:27:47 -0500
Subject: Re: 'The Mythologist' AKA Armen Victorian/Henry


>From: Joe McGonagle <joe.mcgonagle.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 1:38:15 +0000
>Subject: 'The Mythologist' AKA Armen Victorian/Henry Azadehdel

>John Lundberg emailed me to say that "The Mythologist", a
>documentary film which he directed about Henry Azadehdel aka
>Armen Victorian will be broadcast in the UK on BBC4 at 10:40pm
>next Thursday 25th March. This should be a fascinating
>programme, If you have the opportunity to see it then don't pass
>it up!

>More details, including short clips from the film and details of
>some of the people that appear on it or were involved in it's
>production can be found at:

>http://www.mythologist.co.uk

Joe,

Thanks. I look forward to this. "Dr Henry" was one of ufology's
more colourful characters in the early Nineties. He telephoned
me frequently at the MOD and his calls were always entertaining.

Either he or Lucien Morgan (another colourful character from
those days) claimed that I was a member of 'The Aviary' - a
group of serving and former government, military and
intelligence personnel who were allegedly setting the ufological
agenda.

My codename was Woodpecker. Apparently.


Best wishes,

Nick Pope








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   Mar > Mar 19

                    BBC - UFO Streaks Through Martian Sky

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 19:55:57 -0800
Fwd Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 10:30:15 -0500
Subject: BBC - UFO Streaks Through Martian Sky


Source: BBC News

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/3520636.stm

18 March 2004

UFO streaks through Martian sky
By Dr David Whitehouse
BBC News Online science editor

Thursday, 18 March, 2004, 14:59 GMT

The US Spirit rover on Mars has seen a UFO streak across the Red
Planet sky.

Astronomers say it could be the first meteor seen from the
surface of another world, or a redundant orbiting spacecraft sent
to Mars 30 years ago.

"We may never know, but we are still looking for clues," said Dr
Mark Lemmon, from Texas A&M University.

Whatever it was, Spirit was lucky to catch sight of the UFO as
the rover's main mission is to look downwards to study rocks and
soil on the planet.

Unidentified Object

Only occasionally does it raise its sights towards the sky to
study the atmosphere of Mars.

But it was on just such an occasion when Spirit was observing
the sky with the green filter of its panoramic camera that the
roving geologist came across the surprise - a streak across the
peach-coloured Martian heavens.

Mission controllers say the streak was probably the brightest
object in the sky at the time.

If the UFO was not a shooting a star then it could have been one
of seven out-of-commission spacecraft that still orbit Mars.

From the object's motion, scientists do not think it was the
Russian probes Mars 2, Mars 3, Mars 5, or Phobos 2; or the
American probes Mariner 9 or Viking 1.

That leaves Viking 2, which has a polar orbit that would fit
with the north-south orientation of the streak.

In addition, only Viking 1 and 2 are in orbits that could
produce the type of motion as fast as that seen by Spirit.







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   Mar > Mar 19

                 Mystery Train Thought To Contain UFO Parts

From: Kenny Young <ufo.nul>
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 01:23:48 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 10:38:13 -0500
Subject: Mystery Train Thought To Contain UFO Parts


Source: The Seattle Times

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/home/

Friday, March 12, 2004


Mystery train put neighbor on wrong track =97 for a while

By Natalie Singer
Seattle Times Eastside Bureau

Bellevue resident Lesley Stuart called recently with a strange
story and a question: Is somebody transporting missiles or UFO
parts across the Eastside in the dead of night?

Stuart's house sits about 100 feet from a railroad crossing for
Burlington Northern Santa Fe Railway on the route that carries
The Spirit of Washington Dinner Train. She and her daughter are
accustomed to the dinner-train crossings and regular freight
shipments. But when they heard what sounded like an extra-long
train in the middle of the night a few weeks ago, they woke up.

What Stuart saw out her bedroom window alarmed her. "It was like
nothing we've seen before. It was spooky," she said. Inside the
northbound cars was cargo that got Stuart's imagination rolling:
long, skinny, shiny blue items that looked to Stuart like
missiles; huge, white, rectangular boxes slanted at one end; a
shiny, white slug-shape thing, as long as a semi-truck, with
narrow bar-code stripes; giant gauges that resembled clock
faces.

"These are not the Boeing airplane parts we're used to seeing,"
said Stuart, who's lived on the corner for four years. "It was
like looking at something from another planet."

The train took 15 minutes to cross, much longer than usual, she
noted. Stuart and her daughter witnessed the odd trains on two
nights before Stuart began leaving her video camera on the
nightstand, ready to record anymore odd activity. But another
strange train never came.

We called Burlington Northern to find out if weapons or UFO
parts had been carted through Bellevue.

It turns out that, while unusual, the shipments were not part of
any covert mission. According to Gus Melonas, the railroad's
regional spokesman, the trains were transporting pieces of giant
wind turbines from the Port of Longview to Alberta, Canada. The
shipments included generators, props and blades from the wind
turbines, which are used to generate power and can be hundreds
of feet tall. Two 57-car trains were rerouted through Bellevue
because the cargo was too big for downtown Seattle's rail
tunnel, Melonas said. "We don't expect this activity anytime
again soon," he added.

Stuart laughed when she heard the explanation.

"I guess that's a reasonable explanation," she said. "So I can
put my video camera away?"

End of article

--
UFO Research
http://home.fuse.net/ufo










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   Mar > Mar 19

                   Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices?

From: Barry Taylor <stingray.nul>
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 18:21:04 +1100
Fwd Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 10:39:26 -0500
Subject: Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices?


Hello List members,

I have just uploaded an article on my UFO web site titled...
"Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices?"

www.theozfactor.cjb.net/hoax_05.htm

I think you will find it an interesting read.


Regards,

Barry Taylor








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   Mar > Mar 19

                   Jerry Black To Polygraph Bruce Maccabee

From: Kenny Young <ufo.nul>
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 02:39:58 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 10:41:37 -0500
Subject: Jerry Black To Polygraph Bruce Maccabee


Jerry Black called earlier yesterday to inform me of his
appreciation of Bruce Maccabee for accepting his invitation to
take a lie detector test and that his search is now underway for
a polygraph examiner local to the Baltimore area. He said that
he will be responding to other UFO UpDates List comments, on his
own, in separate messages.

The acceptance of Black's invitation is a positive gesture by
Bruce Maccabee to answer one of his critics. Will be looking
forward to watching things happen.


Kenny Young

--
UFO Research
http://home.fuse.net/ufo







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   Mar > Mar 19

                          Hats Off To George Noory!

From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 03:56:36 EST
Fwd Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 10:43:08 -0500
Subject: Hats Off To George Noory!


It's moments like last night's Coast To Coast show that bring
back the optimist in a guy.

I know most of you were tuned in and heard, for the first hour
or so, Mr. Wayne Green and his buddy David Booth who professed
to having a vision of another pending disaster and having met
Sister Lucia of 'Fatima' fame.

So Booth and Green get on the air and jabber on and the suspense
mounts. They go into everything except what Sister Lucia had to
say.

So George Noory with the patience of a saint and the resolve of
a knight in shining armor, tells Booth and Wayne that they
either give up the goods or he's going to 'open lines' instead.

He says he'll go to a break and then come back and at that time
they either give up the secrets or 'adios'.

So the break starts, we get some commercials, some neat bumper
music and the suspense builds. Then the show starts again and
it's George alone opening up the lines.

And the fans called in to congratulate and thank Noory!

One of the main problems I've had for years with UFOlogy and
related phenomena is that people would jaw on for days and then
hawk a book or video or seminar. Sure it's okay for a joe to
make a buck to further research but too often it's way overboard
and doesn't do much for their credibility.

In this case, when someone says they've had a vision wherein 95%
of mankind is doomed and then get on the air on a venue as huge
as C2C and the first thing they do is the snakeoil routine then
they should get the boot.

Over the past 10 years we've had to endure endless 'come ons'
and bs and no goods appear. I hate that stuff.

People often ask me to write a book or do a comic on my meager
yet startling UFO research but I say no. Reason being I feel the
professional scientists and suffering victims should be making
the dough to further their research and healing their wounds. So
I just put whatever data I have out for free and if it can help
so be it. I pay out of pocket for any library, travel or lab
work. If I can help a researcher with funding or connecting to
funding, all good.

Yet what George Noory did tonight is what we all who are in
media to any degree should continue to do:

Put the cards on the table.

Let the professional scientists and researchers do the science.

No more snake-oil, dramatists and con men, nor blarneyists.

Just the facts ma'am cause times are dangerous enough.

Mr. Green is a brilliant, brilliant man. No doubt whatsoever on
that. He knows his science and he's a war hero and very
generous. We all owe him for his many inventions as well
including the computers we use each day for one, yet this
situation calls even for him to realize we don't have all day to
sit on our hands when claims such as his guest has made.

If we're going to win this battle, it'll be up to you
professional scientists and researchers to do what you do best
and we in the media to provide the assistance necessary for you
all to present your conclusions like Mr. Bruce-Knapp does and
Jeff Rense and now George Noory.

I for one will be tuning in every night to C2C with the comfort
of knowing that George Noory has finally seen the light and is
brave enough to put his foot down.


Best,

Greg







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   Mar > Mar 19

                         Deb Jordan & Crop Formation

From: Aaron LeClair <force.nul>
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 04:31:02 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 10:45:33 -0500
Subject: Deb Jordan & Crop Formation


This is kind of interesting:

http://www.debshome.com/debsCCirclereport9401.html

I suppose a hoaxer could have read Deb's book, and seen the image
on her site......








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   Mar > Mar 19

               Re: Scientist Creates Roswell UFO Metal - Hatch

From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 02:05:22 -0800
Fwd Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 10:47:44 -0500
Subject: Re: Scientist Creates Roswell UFO Metal - Hatch


>From: Josh Crockett <thirdeyeching.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 19:54:06 EST
>Subject: Scientist Creates Roswell UFO Metal

>Witnesses who found the debris from the Roswell, New Mexico UFO
>crash in 1947 reported seeing metal as thin as the silver foil
>from a cigarette pack that nonetheless could not be pierced by a
>bullet. Now Discover Magazine reports that scientists have
>created what sounds like the same thing.

>Brad Lemley writes in the April issue of Discover about a metal
>strip as thin as aluminum foil that cannot be even be severed by
>wire cutters. When a steel ball is dropped onto it, the ball
>bounces back and will not go through it.

>Lemley writes, "It's all astounding, yet oddly familiar. In the
>typical science fiction film circa 1950, there's that scene in
>which scientists return from the just-landed flying saucer and
>tell the Army brass that no tool known to humankind an cut,
>burn, bend or otherwise scar the hull. But the metal in front of
>me is decidedly terrestrial in origin �it was developed in
>Pasadena!

>"It's called metallic glass, or amorphous metal, and it appears
>to be nothing less than an entirely new class of material that
>can be used to build lighter, stronger versions of anything."
>Amorphous metal is made by rearranging the atoms in metal so
>they react differently to heat. William Johnson, who helped
>discover it, says, "This is the structural material of the
>future." Was it also the structural material of the past for
>another civilization?

>A strange type of foam, made up of magnesium and bismuth, with
>gaps between elements which do not reveal how they are
>sandwiched together, was also found at Roswell. Johnson says, "A
>sandwich made of two thin sheets of amorphous metal flanking
>amorphous foam would be strong, light, insulating fireproof,
>bug-proof, rustproof, sound dampening, and difficult to
>penetrate with bombs."

>Sources: http://www.unknowncountry.com/news/?id=3635

>http://www.discover.com/issues/apr-04/features/glassy-metals/?page=2


Hello Josh:

Now, this is really interesting!

Sadly, the Discover article online cuts you off after the first
page. They want you to subscribe for the rest of it.

Here's a page about Dr. Johnson at Caltech:

 http://www.aph.caltech.edu/people/johnson_w.html

Note the top left image at bottom of page, the one with the
purple oval representing Glassy Alloys.

The Strength (scaled upwards on the left) is superior to steels
and even titanium alloys! That's simply amazing in itself, but
there's more..

Elasticity, the ability to bend and reform usually missing from
hard materials is also very high, about the same as polymers
like nylon, Teflon etc. (at least that's what I think of for
polymers.)

Combine the two, and we have a near miracle coming out of
materials science.

Yes, it does sound like something out of UFO stories. Kinda
makes you wonder. If all this holds true, aircraft and military
applications just leap out of the ground.

Here's another site I found:

http://www.liquidmetal.com/news/dsp.news.070502.asp

.. with some reservations. It turns out that the alloy are
created by fast cooling, so they don't crystallize like regular
metals. This implies two big flaws, at least for now.

1) If they get too hot, they recrystallize and lose their
special properties.

2) The super-fast cooling means that at present, they can only
be produced as thin films or foil. Much thicker and they cool
too slowly and crystallize again.

This has apparently been in the news since 1992. Somehow I
missed out on it.


Best wishes

- Larry Hatch








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   Mar > Mar 19

                 Re: 'The Truth' According To Greer - Shell

From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 08:11:27 -0600
Fwd Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 10:49:30 -0500
Subject: Re: 'The Truth' According To Greer - Shell


>From: Colin Stevenson <colsweb.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 17:43:04 -0000
>Subject: Re: 'The Truth' According To Greer

>>From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 08:41:01 -0600
>>Subject: Re: 'The Truth' According To Greer

>>>From: Wendy Connors <fadeddiscs.nul>
>>>To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 19:58:41 -0700
>>>Subject: Re: 'The Truth' According To Greer

>>><snip>

>>>>THE TRUTH
>>>>(THE POWER ELITES DON'T WANT YOU TO KNOW)

>>>>You are invited to spend 5 days with Dr. Greer at his farm in
>>>>Virginia to hear what he has learned after 14 years of
>>>>investigations

><snip>

>It could be worth going if he has one or more of these there;

>http://befreetech.com/techpage.htm

Now, these things I'm always skeptical of. Whenever I read the
descriptions of these "gathering free energy from magnets"
machines, I get the same feeling as when some fast-talker is
trying to short-change me via a lot of bamboozlement.

From what I understand from my high school electronics classes,
the only way sure fire ways to increase electric motor
efficiency is to reduce friction or figure out a way to
eliminate a lot of the CEMF (which basically can't be done). So
9 times out of 10, it looks like an investment scam. It would be
cool, of course, if it really, really worked. I would love to be
proven wrong.








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   Mar > Mar 19

             Re: Spielberg & Cruise 'War of The Worlds' - Clark

From: Jerome Clark <jkclark.nul>
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 09:21:17 -0600
Fwd Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 10:53:15 -0500
Subject: Re: Spielberg & Cruise 'War of The Worlds' - Clark


>From: Greg Sandow <greg.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 15:57:19 -0500
>Subject: Re: Spielberg & Cruise 'War of The Worlds'

>>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 07:50:49 -0800
>>Subject: Spielberg & Cruise 'War of The Worlds'

>>Since then, there have been numerous attempts made to
>>resurrect War of the Worlds on film, but all failed save a
>>little-known TV series in the late '80s, the report adds.

>Not so. A movie based on the book was a big success in 1953, and
>still is lots of fun to watch.

>That fllm updated the story, so we earthlings fight the invading
>Martians with jet planes and atomic bombs, instead of with
>artillery, as H. G. Wells described. I'd love to know if
>Spielberg will set his movie in the present day, or (which I'd
>love to see) in the 1890s.

So would I. In fact, that was the first question that came to
mind as I read this report. A modern-day version would be, I'm
afraid, just another space-invasion yarn, of which there are all
too many already.

One set in turn-of-the-last-century England, as Wells's original
was, would be fascinating indeed. Unfortunately, I expect that
we'll get the predictable Hollywood version. Let's just hope at
least that it's better than the recent remake of another Wells
novel, The Time Machine, which was truly horrible, worse than
George Pal's earlier film, which I would not have deemed
possible.


Jerry Clark








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   Mar > Mar 19

              Re: UFOs And Fairies/Legends/Supernatural - Pt. I

From: Luis R. Gonzalez <lrgm.nul>
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 16:17:53 +0100
Fwd Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 10:56:48 -0500
Subject: Re: UFOs And Fairies/Legends/Supernatural - Pt. I


>From: Terry W. Colvin <fortean1.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 10:20:53 -0700
>Subject: UFOs And Fairies/Legends/Supernatural - Pt. I


T. Peter Park wrote:

<snip>

>A strange "construction" with "lights" and a "noisy motor" flew
>low over Copiap=F3, Chile, on July 1, 1868. Local people described
>it as" a gigantic bird" with "eyes wide open and shining like
>burning coals," covered with "immense scales" that "clashed
>together with a metallic sound". Although it was not an actual
>landing, Jacques Vallee called this the first instance of close
>observation of an unknown object at low altitude in the
>nineteenth century. [Charles Fort, 'Lo!' (1931), in 'The
>Complete Books of Charles Fort' (New York: Dover Publications,
>1974), p. 638, citing 'Zoologist', July, 1868;Jacques Vallee,
'>Passport to Magonia' (Henry Regnery, 1969), pp. 179-180, Case
>1]

A Chilean colleague located and transcribed _literally_ the original
clipping (in Spanish, sorry):

La carta -del 16 de marzo- relata un hecho acontecido el 15
de marzo.

<snipped by Moderator>

--------

The correct date is March, 15, 1868. The description is clearly
_not_ a strange and noisy "construction" but a gigantic bird
with a serpent body.

<snip>

>One August afternoon in 1914, three young Americans and a
>French-Canadian family saw a UFO with humanoid occupants on Lake
>Huron's Georgian Bay in Ontario. William J. Kiehl, two other
>young Americans working their way across Canada, and a French-
>Canadian couple with their three children saw a spherical craft
>resting on the water. Two "little fellows" 4 feet tall with
>skinny bodies and big heads wearing iridescent green and purple
>clothes, stood on its deck manipulating a green hose, plunging
>it into the water. Three other little "men" dressed in light
>brown, wearing square masks down to their shoulders, then
>appeared on top of the craft, manipulating some tubes or pipes.
>The "men" did not appear to notice the witnesses. They soon re-
>entered the craft, except for one "little man" who remained
>outside, clinging to a railing encircling the craft, as it rose
>above the water and shot upward, leaving a short vapor trail.
>[Coral and Jim Lorenzen, 'Flying Saucer Occupants' (New York:
>New American Library, Signet Books, 1967), pp. 20-23; Jacques
>Vallee, 'Passport to Magonia', p. 188, Case 40]


According to Martin Kottmeyer "Headhunt" ('Magonia' ), this case
is suspicious:

"Late spring 1966. William Kiehl sends the Lorenzens a letter
about a 1914 incident (...). The Lorenzens note that the
incident bore some, but not complete similarity to the Steep
Rock Case of July 2, 1950 and this case was previously recounted
in"Fate" magazine, the magazine from which Kiehl learned about
the Lorenzens interest in ufo phenomena. They also note that
Steep Rock was a journalistic hoax".

<snip>

>Near Marseilles in the summer of 1921, an eight-year-old boy,
>"G.B.", was "abducted" by two beings in the first recorder 20th
>century UFO abduction, according to his letter years later in
>the October 23, 1954 Paris-Match. Two tall, slender "men" in
>flexible metal diving suits and "pliable helmets" had allegedly
>dragged him into an "oddly shaped tank." Then "after a while an
>opening appeared in the ceiling of the cabin, and in a few
>seconds I found myself on the ground. However, I had to walk
>most of the afternoon until I found myself near the road I had
>left five minutes before." Jacques Vallee (Anatomy of a
>Phenomenon, p. 25) called it "the first report of a UFO
>'kidnapping' in modern times,." though "we do not know the exact
>reference of this information," listed by G. Quincy "without any
>indication of source." [Jerome Clark, "From Mermaids to Little
>Gray Men" ('Anomalist', No. 8, Spring 2000), p. 20; Vallee,
>'Passport to Magonia', p. 188, Case 43, citing "Quincy"; Vallee,
>'Anatomy of a Phenomenon: UFO's in Space: A Scientific
>Appraisal' (Henry Regnery, 1965; Ballantine Books, 1974), p. 25,
>citing G. Quincy, "Catalogue of 1,027 UFO Observations,"
>personal communication; Peter Rogerson, "Fairyland's Hunters,"
>'Magonia' 46, June 1993
>http//magonia.demon.co.uk/arc/90/revis01.html ,citing INTCAT
>files, supplied by Alain Garnard from research by D. Guarden,
>and Jerome Clark, "Close Encounters of the Third Kind, 1901-
>1959," 'Strange', No. 10, 1992]

This case is described in a Letter to Editor printed in a French
newspaper: Paris-Match #291, 23 October 1954, reproduced in Jean
Sider's "Le Dossier 1954 et l'imposture rationaliste. Cahier
Iconographique", p. 93. withour any additional data.

Hope it helps.

Luis R. Gonzalez Manso







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   Mar > Mar 19

              Re: NUFORC: Brooksville Forida 03-118-04 - Young

From: Kenny Young <ufo.nul>
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 10:22:34 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 10:57:37 -0500
Subject: Re: NUFORC: Brooksville Forida 03-118-04 - Young


>From: Peter Davenport - NUFORC <director.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 13:51:41 -0800
>Subject: NUFORC: Brooksville Forida 03-118-04

>In brief, a gentleman was driving west on a rural highway near
>Brooksville, FL, when he noticed a cluster of distinctly red
>lights some distance ahead, which he could not ascribe to any
>type of vehicle he was familiar with. When he got within an
>estimated 400 feet of the objects, each of which was some 5
>inches in diameter, he estimated, they all streaked off in
>different directions.

Peter;

The two cases you mention sound oddly similar to an Ohio case
from July of 2000 in which travelers near Ashtabula, Ohio were
surrounded and paced by multiple red lights. Details below -- KY

Subject: UFO Sighting Location: Between East Liverpool and
Ashtabula, Ohio, Route 11 Date: Saturday night [July 22]/Sunday
morning [July 23] Time: Between 11:00 p.m. to 1:00 a.m.

Three motorists advised the Ashtabula County Highway Patrol
office that they were "surrounded and paced by multiple red
lights" while traveling northbound for nearly 40-miles on Route
11 between East Liverpool and Ashtabula, Ohio [Trumbull and
Ashtabula Counties] around midnight on Saturday night, July 22.

The three motorists, ages range from between 60 to 70-years,
were viewed as highly credible by Northeastern Ohio researcher
George Pindroh, who interviewed them on Sunday, July 23. The key
witness is an ex-law enforcement officer. Pindroh, contacted for
a statement on this report, graciously afforded information of
the sighting. He also expressed his respect for the privacy of
the witnesses.

Pindroh told of how the threesome, while driving late at night
on a desolate stretch of Route 11, became alarmed as a red glow
came into view. One passenger asked the driver if the light
source was a truck on the road. As they continued to travel
toward the light source, they report that 'many lights' suddenly
became visible 'all around' their vehicle. One light was
extremely huge [estimated to be at least 3-feet in diameter] and
the other lights were smaller, basketball sized objects that
were strangely seen all around the car, on top, on each side and
in back of their auto, a Cadillac.

The witnesses related to Pindroh that the lights, estimated to
number almost 35 at one time, were thought to be attached to one
larger, unseen object, rather than free-flying light sources.
The lights, said to be very close to and above the car, paced
the threesome as they drove an estimated 40-miles along Route
11, headed south to north. One passenger told Pindroh of being
"scared to death."

While driving along with the lights in pursuit, there was no
traffic seen on Route 11 with the exception of one other car. It
was thought that this car had stopped and its driver was looking
out his window at the lights. The threesome, however, continued
on without stopping.

While traveling on, the ex-law enforcement officer reported to
Pindroh that they had experienced an unusual 'dark area' that
coincided with a disruption involving the car's burglar alarm
system. The electronic car alarm was said to have 'went off'
repeatedly while they drove along, further contributing to the
mayhem. Strangely, a rain-like moisture had also accumulated on
the bottom half of the windshield on the front exterior portion
of the car.

"As best as they could describe," Pindroh reported, "a strange
darkness occurred and everything went black."

The claimants informed that the lights seemed to 'go to the
left' and toward the front of their car as they approached their
home. The first thing they did when entering the house was to
rush to the phone and place a call to the police.

In investigation of the claims, researcher George Pindroh
contacted the Ashtabula County State Highway Patrol office on
Tuesday, July 25 and confirmed the advisement to their office of
numerous red-lights by the claimants. Pindroh also learned that
there were additional calls about 'red lights' received at the
same office around the same time frame, and yet another call was
received at the Highway Patrol Office on Sunday concerning red
lights seen on Saturday night.

Learning that the automobile was later found to have had its
pre-programmed radio stations 'reset' and its clock also found
to be inaccurate due to electronic default, Pindroh consulted
with a Cadillac dealer concerning the alarm system disruption
and the radio/clock issue. The dealer was not able to fully
explain the electronic oddities, noting that if the car had lost
power during the experience, the driver would know as power
steering would be lost and the car would have to be re-started.
Further, the moisture on the vehicle as described by the
witnesses is not compatible with condensation from the air
conditioning system, according to the Cadillac dealer.

Thanks to George Pindroh of the Cleveland UFOlogy Project [CUP]
for the preliminary details of this sighting that was reported
to the Ashtabula County State Highway Patrol office and
releasing the information for this summary. Pindroh further
advises that a full and more detailed report on this case is
pending.

Special NOTE:

Another UFO sighting was reported in Ashtabula County, Ohio on
February 28, 2000. This event, near Saybrook, Ohio, was reported
by area residents and law enforcement officials.

For details of this report, see:

http://home.fuse.net/ufo/Ashtabula2000.html

Filed:
July 27, 2000
Kenny Young
--
UFO Research
http://home.fuse.net/ufo/







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   Mar > Mar 19

               Re: 'The Mythologist' AKA Armen Victorian/Henry

From: Max Burns <max.burns.nul>
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 15:42:21 -0000
Fwd Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 14:03:30 -0500
Subject: Re: 'The Mythologist' AKA Armen Victorian/Henry


>From: Nick Pope <nick.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 01:59:23 -0000
>Subject: Re: 'The Mythologist' AKA Armen Victorian/Henry Azadehdel

>>From: Joe McGonagle <joe.mcgonagle.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 1:38:15 +0000
>>Subject: 'The Mythologist' AKA Armen Victorian/Henry Azadehdel

>>John Lundberg emailed me to say that "The Mythologist", a
>>documentary film which he directed about Henry Azadehdel aka
>>Armen Victorian will be broadcast in the UK on BBC4 at 10:40pm
>>next Thursday 25th March. This should be a fascinating
>>programme, If you have the opportunity to see it then don't pass
>>it up!

>>More details, including short clips from the film and details of
>>some of the people that appear on it or were involved in it's
>>production can be found at:

>>http://www.mythologist.co.uk

>Joe,

>Thanks. I look forward to this. "Dr Henry" was one of ufology's
>more colourful characters in the early Nineties. He telephoned
>me frequently at the MOD and his calls were always entertaining.

>Either he or Lucien Morgan (another colourful character from
>those days) claimed that I was a member of 'The Aviary' - a
>group of serving and former government, military and
>intelligence personnel who were allegedly setting the ufological
>agenda.

>My codename was Woodpecker. Apparently.

Nick, EBK, Listers,

I heard something about this a few years ago, apparently all the
group had codenames after birds. I can't remember where I heard
it.

Someone told me that Andy Tugby, who ran one of the IRC/Mirc
chatrooms, you have been a guest with, Nick.

The person told me that Andy, was part of this group. His
chatroom handle was "Crow". I know Andy. He's a normal guy. It
was just his nick name.

All the best

Rooster









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   Mar > Mar 19

                           JPL's Mars UFO - Shell

From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 09:34:05 -0600
Fwd Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 14:05:47 -0500
Subject: JPL's Mars UFO - Shell


>From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 14:54:23 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
>Subject: Re: JPL's Mars UFO


<snip>

><snip>

>Today's BBC news story on JPL's Mars UFO that was written by Dr.
>David Whitehouse agrees with us that this unexplainable streak
>in the Martian sky is a "UFO" (their term)!

>http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/3520636.stm

Couple of things.

No, it doesn't look like a meteor streak, because it doesn't
have that typical tapering you see on almost all meteor photos.
Unless the meteor is going r-e-a-l s-l-o-w. It's also oddly
irregular.

Of course, you might expect some change in apparent brightness
as it goes across the sky in a thicker atmosphere, like on
Earth. But with such a thin atmosphere on Mars, the light trace
would probably be a lot more regular. That might count against
it being something high in orbit, like a moon (although if it's
a rotating satellite the brightness could possibly change).

Third, doesn't it look a little bit like that UFO Tim Edwards
filmed in Colorado a few years back? I'm not sayin' anything,
I'm just sayin'...








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                 PhotoShop-ped Mars UFO Showing Oscillation

From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 09:44:10 -0600
Fwd Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 14:07:43 -0500
Subject: PhotoShop-ped Mars UFO Showing Oscillation


Just out of curiosity. I hate amateurs who Photoshop UFO stuff,
but.....

Here's an enhancement that shows the Mars UFO and its apparent
oscillation. Interesting. Regular on the right side of the
streak, stops on the left.

Is the "object" on the left?

If we knew the legth of the time exposure, you could figure out
the rate of rotation (or flashing light?).

Submitted for your approval.....

http://www.cpu-net.com/host/shell/marsufo.jpg







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                Re: Jerry Black To Polygraph Bruce Maccabee -

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 10:57:42 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 14:08:57 -0500
Subject: Re: Jerry Black To Polygraph Bruce Maccabee -


>From: Kenny Young <ufo.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 02:39:58 -0500
>Subject: Jerry Black To Polygraph Bruce Maccabee

>Jerry Black called earlier yesterday to inform me of his
>appreciation of Bruce Maccabee for accepting his invitation to
>take a lie detector test and that his search is now underway for
>a polygraph examiner local to the Baltimore area. He said that
>he will be responding to other UFO UpDates List comments, on his
>own, in separate messages.

>The acceptance of Black's invitation is a positive gesture by
>Bruce Maccabee to answer one of his critics. Will be looking
>forward to watching things happen.

I gather, from the generally unenthusiastic response on this
List, that few people will be sitting on the edge of their seats
waiting for the results.








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                Re: 'The Truth' According To Greer - Aldrich

From: Jan Aldrich <project1947.nul>
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 11:35:40 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 14:10:34 -0500
Subject: Re: 'The Truth' According To Greer - Aldrich


<LOL> Ah, yes, a machine that generates more energy than is put
into it. How wonderful! Violates the Law of the Conservation of
Energy. Why the inventor should have the Noble Price locked up.

Not!

Scam-alert. Bull butter alert.

If Greer isn't careful, Otis T. Carr's relatives might sue him
for infringement of copyrights and pattens.


Jan Aldrich
Project 1947








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                  The Ten Most Wanted Government Documents

From: Lary W. Bryant <overtci.nul>
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 11:04:35 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 14:15:06 -0500
Subject: The Ten Most Wanted Government Documents



---------------------------- Original Message ----------------------------
Subject: [FOI-L] Fwd: Choose the Ten Most Wanted Government Documents
From: "Patrice McDermott" <pmcdermott.nul>
Date: Fri, March 19, 2004 10:55 am
To:  FOI-L.nul
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

The American Library Association, through the Washington Office,
is a member of the coalition:

www.openthegovernment.org

mentioned below.

Patrice

>Rick Blum <blumr.nul> 03/18/04 09:18PM

>What would you most want government to show the public? The
>28 secret pages of Congress' joint inquiry into intelligence
>failures leading up to 9/11? Threats to community safety posed
>by chemical plants? How the government has used Patriot Act
>powers? Or a mailing address for the nation's "spy court"?

We are looking for a few good documents. The Ten Most Wanted
government documents for 2004, to be precise. And we're inviting
the public to help.

We've talked with experts and compiled a list of documents that
government could make readily available to the public. Now we're
asking the public to rank the experts' choices and suggest other
documents for the list. So

please go to www.ombwatch.org/TenMostWanted/survey.phtml, take
the survey and encourage your friends and colleagues to do so as
well. The deadline is March 31, 2004.

The survey consists of two short parts. First, you'll have the
chance to rate documents suggested by experts and tell us which
documents you would most like government to show the public.
(Our list has 19 items. You can nominate the 20th.) Second,
we're also asking the public to identify the biggest problems
you face in getting information from government.

What will we do with your vote? After announcing the results in
April as part of the unveiling of OpenTheGovernment.org, a new
coalition that will push for more democracy and less secrecy,
we'll push government to release the documents.

So please, take a few minutes to take the survey at:

www.openthegovernment.org.

Also, please redistribute this announcement to lists you think
may be appropriate.

It's easy, it's quick, and it'll help open the government.
Thanks for your help.

Who We Are and Why We're Doing This

The Ten Most Wanted Project 2004 is being prepared by OMB Watch
and the

Center for Democracy and Technology for OpenTheGovernment.org.
OpenTheGovernment.org is a new, unprecedented coalition of over
30 organizations created to fight increased secrecy and promote
open government. The Center for Democracy and Technology
(www.cdt.org) works to promote democratic values and civil
liberties in the digital age. OMB Watch (www.ombwatch.org)
advances social justice, government accountability and citizen
participation in federal policy decisions.

If the Ten Most Wanted Project 2004 sounds familiar to you, it
should. When the Center for Democracy and Technology and OMB
Watch conducted the 10 Most Wanted survey a few years ago (in
1999), we came up with good results. At that time, the Supreme
Court did not have a web site (but Mongolia's Supreme Court
did). By the 2000 election, the new U.S.

Supreme Court Web site:

www.supremecourtus.gov

was ready to handle the heavy demand to download the Bush v.
Gore decision, allowing thousands from around the world to read
the decisions for themselves at the time that it was published.
In another victory, the government's plans to recover endangered
species were not available online. After the 10 Most Wanted
survey, resources were made available to step up the time frame
to get these important documents online.

Today, the problems are bigger, and our response will be bigger
as well. We have broadened the range of information the Ten Most
Wanted Project will cover. The Ten Most Wanted Project 2004 will
help launch a broad national coalition called
OpenTheGovernment.org to restore openness and accountability in
our government. Both OMB Watch and CDT participate in the
coalition.

So vote for the Ten Most Wanted government documents at:

www.ombwatch.org/TenMostWanted/survey.phtml

It'll help open the government.

Thanks for doing your part.

Rick Blum
OMB Watch (CFC #1308)
1742 Connecticut Ave NW
Washington, DC 20009
Ph 202-234-8494
F 202-234-8584
blumr.nul

---







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                Re: Jerry Black To Polygraph Bruce Maccabee -

From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg.nul>
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 10:08:45 -0600
Fwd Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 14:17:16 -0500
Subject: Re: Jerry Black To Polygraph Bruce Maccabee -


>From: Kenny Young <ufo.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 02:39:58 -0500
>Subject: Jerry Black To Polygraph Bruce Maccabee

>Jerry Black called earlier yesterday to inform me of his
>appreciation of Bruce Maccabee for accepting his invitation to
>take a lie detector test and that his search is now underway for
>a polygraph examiner local to the Baltimore area. He said that
>he will be responding to other UFO UpDates List comments, on his
>own, in separate messages.

>The acceptance of Black's invitation is a positive gesture by
>Bruce Maccabee to answer one of his critics. Will be looking
>forward to watching things happen.


What? This is the stupidest thing I've ever heard! Polygraphs
are a shim-sham, a crack-pot machine, and are easily defeated.
So says Dr. Philip Zimbardo of Stanford and a couple of other
lettered researchers from other universities on an up-dated
college telecourse I saw just Tuesday.

Polygraphs are a lie in the fog, completely subjective, and are
indicative (to the powerful masses) of likely guilt... and only
_possible_ innocence. They _only_ do harm and _never_ do any
lasting good, and they are desired only by persons who would
likely _never_ be strapped to the fallacious machines
themselves...

Dr. Maccabee! You don't need to do this! It's not valid; it's
not science; it proves _nothing_! You've a reputation to stand
on! Stand on it!


Lehmberg.nul
www.AlienView.net
http://www.alienview.net/N2Ltune.html








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   Mar > Mar 19

                    Re: Evidence Of Life On Mars - Ledger

From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 12:28:52 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 14:18:50 -0500
Subject: Re: Evidence Of Life On Mars - Ledger


>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 20:04:55 -0500
>Subject: Evidence Of Life On Mars

>Source: Space.Com
>http://space.com/missionlaunches/mars_blueberries_040317.html
>17 March 2004

>Mystery Spheres on Mars Finally Identified
>By Leonard David
>space.com

<snip>


Hi Ray,

It's one thing for NASA/JPL to use the scientific method and
caution when evaluating these anomalies but they should at least
address the whole of the anomaly, not tentatively propose a half
solution then drop it and move on. And I'm betting that school's
not out in any event.

NASA/JPL isn't the only authority in this area.


Don Ledger









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                    Rover Cracks Mystery Of Mars Spheres

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 14:22:50 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 14:22:50 -0500
Subject: Rover Cracks Mystery Of Mars Spheres




Source: CNN.Com

http://edition.cnn.com/2004/TECH/space/03/18/mars.blueberries/index.html

Friday, March 19, 2004 Posted: 1438 GMT


Rover Cracks Mystery Of Mars Spheres

By Leonard David
SPACE.com

(SPACE.com) - Scientists have learned the composition of the
mysterious sphere-shaped objects scattered across the crater
floor at Meridiani Planum, the landing site of the Opportunity
Mars rover.

By using a Mossbauer Spectrometer mounted on Opportunity's robot
arm, a patch of the tiny spherules - also called "blueberries",
although they are not blue - received close examination and
have now been identified as hematite.

The spectrometer is designed to study minerals that contain
iron, which are common on the martian surface. Also used to pin
down the makeup of the spherules was the rover's Mini-Thermal
Emission Spectrometer, a scientific instrument that can
recognize minerals formed in water. Meridiani: shallow lake?

This new evidence further supports the hypothesis that the
hematite mineral was likely formed in a former standing body of
water. The Meridiani area, it is thought, was once a shallow
lake.

Once Opportunity wheels itself out of its current shallow crater
site, scientists expect the hematite-rich spherules to litter
the landscape at Meridiani Planum.

Philip Christensen, a Mars Exploration Rover scientist from
Arizona State University in Tempe, announced the finding this
week at the 35th annual Lunar and Planetary Science Conference
being held in Houston, Texas. Formation via precipitation

"This finding further supports the hypothesis that these
interesting 'Mars balls' are actually sedimentary concretions,
rather than any of the other working hypotheses," said James
Garvin, lead scientist for Mars Exploration and the Moon at NASA
Headquarters in Washington, D.C.

There have been a variety of contending theories for what may
have caused the unusual mineralogy at Meridiani, including
volcanic causes.

Garvin said that this latest finding strongly supports the view
that the rocks in the outcrop at Meridiani have been modified by
water - a determination made already through other research at
the site.

"Hematite as a major compositional phase in the spherules
supports their formation via precipitation, rather than as
impact-related fallout," Garvin said.

"So, the story is getting better... and multiple lines of
independent evidence support water-related chemical 'processing'
of the rocks," Garvin added. "Now all we have to do is figure
out what made the rocks in the first place and how long the
water may have been involved in the 'soakings.' What a fun
time!"

Copyright 1999-2004 SPACE.com, Inc.


[UFO UpDates thanks Norman for the lead]








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   Mar > Mar 19

                Re: Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices? -

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 11:31:40 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 15:28:48 -0500
Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices? -


>From: Barry Taylor <stingray.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 18:21:04 +1100
>Subject: Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices?

>I have just uploaded an article on my UFO web site titled...
>"Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices?"

>www.theozfactor.cjb.net/hoax_05.htm

>I think you will find it an interesting read.

I read it and found it an interesting read. I commend you for
your combined experimental and analytical approach. However, I
do not agree with it... at least as applied to the famous
Phoenix Lights footage.

I also wonder about the accuracy of some of your suggestions as
to how to make and ignite gas bag balloons. Since I have never
made one myself I would have to say that _some_ of what you have
proposed for creating a balloon, such as the "time delayed
method" (so no one sees a light as the balloon rises to its
buoyant level, seems unlikely to me.

But, to return to the Phoenix lights themselves, as one can
learn from my web page, careful analysis of the video shows that
the lights *did* move downward and _did_ move slowly sideways
(to the left) and the triangulations showed they were many tens
of miles away (60-80). You suggest that they were close because
they were over Phoenix and bright enough to be videotaped.
Perhaps you don't realize that even if they had been over the
city of Phoenix they would have been 5-10 miles from one of the
videotapers (Krzysten) and perhaps 30 miles from another
(Rairdon), yet the images appear equally bright in the videos.

I don't believe the lights were hoax devices but nevertheless
they would have some characteristics common to the hoax balloons
you suggest, if they were, as I suggest (and others before me)
that they were distant parahute borne bright military flares.








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   Mar > Mar 19

             Re: Spielberg & Cruise 'War of The Worlds' - Sandow

From: Greg Sandow <greg.nul>
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 11:35:33 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 15:35:21 -0500
Subject: Re: Spielberg & Cruise 'War of The Worlds' - Sandow


>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 09:21:17 -0600
>Subject: Re: Spielberg & Cruise 'War of The Worlds'

>>That fllm updated the story, so we earthlings fight the invading
>>Martians with jet planes and atomic bombs, instead of with artillery,
>>as H. G. Wells described. I'd love to know if Spielberg will set his
>>movie in the present day, or (which I'd love to see) in the 1890s.

>So would I. In fact, that was the first question that came to
>mind as I read this report. A modern-day version would be,
>I'm afraid, just another space-invasion yarn, of which there
>are all too many already.


That was the first thing I wondered about, too. In the movie,
the Martians were invulnerable. Not even an atom bomb could stop
them. It's surprising, even so, how exciting the movie is.

But in the novel, the Martians sometimes get hurt. A lucky
artillery shell can smash them. And at one point, as Martian
battle machines are crossing the Thames to conquer London, a
battleship rams one of them and destroys it. This makes the
story more powerful.

Plus, there's something wonderful in Wells's 1898 idea of what
Martian invaders would be like. When, toward the end of the
book, they begin to fly, it's a tremendous, demoralizing shock
to a humans who don't yet have airplanes. The Martians sweep
through the countryside in huge conveyances that literally walk,
on legs taller than any building. They grab things with long
tentacles, and sweep their heat rays over the countryside, while
howling with horrible weird voices. That would be fabulous in a
movie. I'd love to see it.


Greg Sandow








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                    Re: Mars UFO Crops Up On BBC - Ledger

From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 12:48:36 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 15:37:35 -0500
Subject: Re: Mars UFO Crops Up On BBC - Ledger


>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 20:33:04 -0500
>Subject: Mars UFO Crops Up On BBC

>The BBC has finally picked up on the "UFO" (JPL's own name for it on
>the photo's identification, not mine) photographed on Mars:

>http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/3520636.stm

>Please read it at their website.

>Meantime, let me comment:

>Note that JPL admits that if the thing that made the streak was a
>man-made satellite, due to orbital considerations, it would
>necessarily have only been Viking 2.

>Important: What they don't tell us is that they know where Viking 2
>would have been, and if Viking 2 could really account for it, they
>would have told us so by now.

>I suggest it was not a meteor (the trail does not seem correct) and
>that it was likely an object of technological origin that did not
>originate on earth.

>Furthermore, I suspect JPL/NASA realize that by now. I further
>suspicion that such is no surprise to them.

>Ray Stanford

Hi Ray.

When I first posted this I was surprised that JPL would use the
"U" word. That's like government using the "R" word. Then along
came the Cosmic Rays and Charged Coupled Device explanation
which was a bit of a hoot. They shot from the hip on that one.

You'd never be able to see anything in the photos if that was
the case. And impacting the CCDs is such a nice straight line,
too.

As for a meteor, the trail looks to thick and too short-not
forgetting of course that it would have to be much lower in
Mar's atmosphere to have the same appearance as one in Earth's
atmosphere. Would it not then be much closer/larger, and more
easily identifiable? I think we can rule out a short duration
con trail-or can we?


Don Ledger









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             Re: UFO Magazine Folds After Editor's Death - Hale

From: Roy Hale <roy.nul>
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 16:54:57 -0000
Fwd Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 16:49:44 -0500
Subject: Re: UFO Magazine Folds After Editor's Death - Hale


>From: John Rimmer <jrimmer.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 20:55:17 +0000
>Subject: Re: UFO Magazine Folds After Editor's Death

>I can't answer from Joe McGonagle, but I wouldn't advocate
>anyone subscribing to FSR, least of all any former readers of
>(UK) UFO Magazine. Whatever you think about its contents, it was
>a porfessionally produced piece of work, which gave its readers
>what they wanted. They would be very disapponted by what FSR has
>(had? I haven't seen it round lately) to offer.

Hi,

Isn't opinion a wonderful thing, you dislike FSR, but will
obviously adore Magonia, never the twain shall meet.

>I have to say, Roy, I agree with you on this; I do find Joe's
>advice quite surprising.

I am glad you have noticed the silence John!

>There is, of course, still one of the UK's most established UFO
>magazines still around, and going from strength to strength by
>not indulging in crazy sensationism.

Well John, I must congratulate you for that advert for Magonia,
perhaps we can look forward to more articles on Pelicanism, I
wondered where James Easton went to. Looks like Magonia is the
right place for him, and his UFOs being Pelicans

http://www.magonia.demon.co.uk/arc/90/pelicanindex.htm

How long do you think you can sustain readers John, regarding
your UFO section on Magonia, considering one of the UKs notorious
sceptics holds such a view below, or is it that sceptics just
enjoy chatting about things that don't really exsist?

'Ufology is really a thing of the last century & the public's
fascination with mysterious flying objects had faded".


Roy







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                Re: Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices? -

From: Stuart Miller <Stuart.Miller4.nul>
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 17:34:56 -0000
Fwd Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 17:02:44 -0500
Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices? -


>From: Barry Taylor <stingray.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 18:21:04 +1100
>Subject: Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices?

>I have just uploaded an article on my UFO web site titled...
>"Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices?"

>www.theozfactor.cjb.net/hoax_05.htm

>I think you will find it an interesting read.


Hi Barry,

A good piece of work Barry, but I can't find I go along with
you.

Firstly, there were many sightings of the Lights well before the
March '97 sighting. The vast majority of these went unnoticed
 by the population of Phoenix. So there wouldn't have been much
point to them really if they were hoaxes.

Second point, you talk about these hoax lights flickering. As I
recall, the Phoenix lights didn't flicker. The hoax lights you
describe would generate illumination. The bizarre thing about
the phenomena that people saw was that the lights on the
translucent object up there did not throw out illumination at
all and their spectral make up was one unknown to mankind,
according to Dilettoso.

These are just two points off the top of my head, without
reference to the book.


Best

Stuart Miller








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   Mar > Mar 19

                    Re: Hats Off To George Noory! - Myers

From: Royce J. Myers III <ufowatchdog.nul>
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 10:48:09 -0800
Fwd Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 17:06:22 -0500
Subject: Re: Hats Off To George Noory! - Myers


>From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 03:56:36 EST
>Subject: Hats Off To George Noory!

>It's moments like last night's Coast To Coast show that bring
>back the optimist in a guy.

>I know most of you were tuned in and heard, for the first hour
>or so, Mr. Wayne Green and his buddy David Booth who professed
>to having a vision of another pending disaster and having met
>Sister Lucia of 'Fatima' fame.

>So Booth and Green get on the air and jabber on and the suspense
>mounts. They go into everything except what Sister Lucia had to
>say.

>So George Noory with the patience of a saint and the resolve of
>a knight in shining armor, tells Booth and Wayne that they
>either give up the goods or he's going to 'open lines' instead.

>He says he'll go to a break and then come back and at that time
>they either give up the secrets or 'adios'.

>So the break starts, we get some commercials, some neat bumper
>music and the suspense builds. Then the show starts again and
>it's George alone opening up the lines.

>And the fans called in to congratulate and thank Noory!

>One of the main problems I've had for years with UFOlogy and
>related phenomena is that people would jaw on for days and then
>hawk a book or video or seminar. Sure it's okay for a joe to
>make a buck to further research but too often it's way overboard

>In this case, when someone says they've had a vision wherein 95%
>of mankind is doomed and then get on the air on a venue as huge
>as C2C and the first thing they do is the snakeoil routine then
>they should get the boot.

>Over the past 10 years we've had to endure endless 'come ons'
>and bs and no goods appear. I hate that stuff.

>People often ask me to write a book or do a comic on my meager
>yet startling UFO research but I say no. Reason being I feel the
>professional scientists and suffering victims should be making
>the dough to further their research and healing their wounds. So
>I just put whatever data I have out for free and if it can help
>so be it. I pay out of pocket for any library, travel or lab
>work. If I can help a researcher with funding or connecting to
>funding, all good.

>Yet what George Noory did tonight is what we all who are in
>media to any degree should continue to do:

>Put the cards on the table.

>Let the professional scientists and researchers do the science.

>No more snake-oil, dramatists and con men, nor blarneyists.

>Just the facts ma'am cause times are dangerous enough.

>Mr. Green is a brilliant, brilliant man. No doubt whatsoever on
>that. He knows his science and he's a war hero and very
>generous. We all owe him for his many inventions as well
>including the computers we use each day for one, yet this
>situation calls even for him to realize we don't have all day to
>sit on our hands when claims such as his guest has made.

>If we're going to win this battle, it'll be up to you
>professional scientists and researchers to do what you do best
>and we in the media to provide the assistance necessary for you
>all to present your conclusions like Mr. Bruce-Knapp does and
>Jeff Rense and now George Noory.

>I for one will be tuning in every night to C2C with the comfort
>of knowing that George Noory has finally seen the light and is
>brave enough to put his foot down.

I've heard Noory in the past sound like he's had to bite his lip
with a couple of guests, you can hear the frustration in the man
from time to time. Perhaps he has had enough of the BS-factor
and enough of fools making the rest of us look like fools with
their utter garbage.

Now the question is: Is this the beginning or the end of getting
rid of the rubes? Hopefully, this isn't the end.....


Regards,

Royce J. Myers III
UFOWATCHDOG.COM









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              Re: Spielberg & Cruise 'War of The Worlds' - Pope

From: Nick Pope <nick.nul>
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 19:07:12 -0000
Fwd Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 17:07:40 -0500
Subject: Re: Spielberg & Cruise 'War of The Worlds' - Pope


>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 09:21:17 -0600
>Subject: Re: Spielberg & Cruise 'War of The Worlds'

>>From: Greg Sandow <greg.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 15:57:19 -0500
>>Subject: Re: Spielberg & Cruise 'War of The Worlds'

>>>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 07:50:49 -0800
>>>Subject: Spielberg & Cruise 'War of The Worlds'

>>>Since then, there have been numerous attempts made to
>>>resurrect War of the Worlds on film, but all failed save a
>>>little-known TV series in the late '80s, the report adds.

>>Not so. A movie based on the book was a big success in 1953, and
>>still is lots of fun to watch.

>>That film updated the story, so we earthlings fight the invading
>>Martians with jet planes and atomic bombs, instead of with
>>artillery, as H. G. Wells described. I'd love to know if
>>Spielberg will set his movie in the present day, or (which I'd
>>love to see) in the 1890s.

>So would I. In fact, that was the first question that came to
>mind as I read this report. A modern-day version would be, I'm
>afraid, just another space-invasion yarn, of which there are all
>too many already.

>One set in turn-of-the-last-century England, as Wells's original
>was, would be fascinating indeed. Unfortunately, I expect that
>we'll get the predictable Hollywood version. Let's just hope at
>least that it's better than the recent remake of another Wells
>novel, The Time Machine, which was truly horrible, worse than
>George Pal's earlier film, which I would not have deemed
>possible.

I too would like to see the movie set in England at the very
beginning of the twentieth century. I would also like to see the
Martian fighting-machines depicted as the walking tripods that
Wells described, as opposed to the more UFO-like machines in the
1953 movie.

List members who know the book well may appreciate the following
anecdote. One day at the Ministry of Defence I received a signal
detailing a UFO sighting reported by a member of the public. I
cannot remember the precise details, but recall that the
description of the object read "cylinder". When I saw that the
location was "Horsell Common" I smiled wryly at the way life can
imitate art, and carefully checked that there was no mention of
the cylinder having landed.

Many authors include a famous or appropriate quote at the
beginning of their books. I used "The War of the Worlds".

Open Skies Closed Minds uses:

"Yet, across the gulf of space... intellects vast and cool and
unsympathetic... regarded this earth with envious eyes, and
slowly and surely drew their plans against us".

The Uninvited uses:

"We have learned... that we cannot regard this planet as being
fenced in and a secure abiding place... we can never anticipate
the unseen good or evil that may come upon us suddenly out of
space".

And there are no prizes for guessing why I titled my first
science fiction novel "Operation Thunder Child".

Now that's a classic scene from science fiction literature that
I'd like to see done well.


Best wishes,

Nick Pope








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             Re: Jerry Black To Polygraph Bruce Maccabee - Clark

From: Jerome Clark <jkclark.nul>
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 13:18:24 -0600
Fwd Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 17:08:34 -0500
Subject: Re: Jerry Black To Polygraph Bruce Maccabee - Clark


>From: Kenny Young <ufo.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 02:39:58 -0500
>Subject: Jerry Black To Polygraph Bruce Maccabee

>Jerry Black called earlier yesterday to inform me of his
>appreciation of Bruce Maccabee for accepting his invitation to
>take a lie detector test and that his search is now underway for
>a polygraph examiner local to the Baltimore area. He said that
>he will be responding to other UFO UpDates List comments, on his
>own, in separate messages.

>The acceptance of Black's invitation is a positive gesture by
>Bruce Maccabee to answer one of his critics. Will be looking
>forward to watching things happen.

I have a suggestion. If Bruce Maccabee takes a polygraph test,
Jerry Black agrees to take a psychiatric test.


Jerry Clark








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               Re: 'The Mythologist' AKA Armen Victorian/Henry

From: Aaron LeClair <force.nul>
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 14:23:46 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 17:10:25 -0500
Subject: Re: 'The Mythologist' AKA Armen Victorian/Henry


>From: Nick Pope <nick.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 01:59:23 -0000
>Subject: Re: 'The Mythologist' AKA Armen Victorian/Henry Azadehdel

>>From: Joe McGonagle <joe.mcgonagle.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 1:38:15 +0000
>>Subject: 'The Mythologist' AKA Armen Victorian/Henry Azadehdel

>>John Lundberg emailed me to say that "The Mythologist", a
>>documentary film which he directed about Henry Azadehdel aka
>>Armen Victorian will be broadcast in the UK on BBC4 at 10:40pm
>>next Thursday 25th March. This should be a fascinating
>>programme, If you have the opportunity to see it then don't pass
>>it up!

>>More details, including short clips from the film and details of
>>some of the people that appear on it or were involved in it's
>>production can be found at:

>>http://www.mythologist.co.uk

>Thanks. I look forward to this. "Dr Henry" was one of ufology's
>more colourful characters in the early Nineties. He telephoned
>me frequently at the MOD and his calls were always entertaining.

>Either he or Lucien Morgan (another colourful character from
>those days) claimed that I was a member of 'The Aviary' - a
>group of serving and former government, military and
>intelligence personnel who were allegedly setting the ufological
>agenda.

>My codename was Woodpecker. Apparently.


Haven't heard that rumor before. Heard the one where you are
supposed to be an abductee though. I E-mailed you about it
awhile back. Ever find out who started that rumor Mr. Pope?








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   Mar > Mar 20

                      Mystery Lights Changed Doc's Life

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 07:54:46 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 07:54:46 -0500
Subject: Mystery Lights Changed Doc's Life



Source; The Arizona Republic

http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/suncities/articles/0319phxlights0319Z1.
html






Mystery Lights Changed Doc's Life

Jan B. Jacobson
Special for The Republic
Mar. 19, 2004 12:00 AM

Strange lights in the sky changed Lynne Kitei's life forever.

Over a two-year period, Kitei, the chief clinical consultant at
the Vital Imaging and Wellness Center at the Arizona Heart
Institute, saw strange lights near her Paradise Valley home
three times.

The first was in February 1995, when "three heavenly lights"
appeared in midair at what she estimated was about 100 yards
from her home. Then she saw them again on Jan. 22, 1997, and on
March 13, 1997. Kitei was looking through her bedroom window
when she saw what she describes as orbs in a triangular
formation passing over Phoenix.

Kitei was one of thousands of witnesses to observe the March 13
sighting, which later became known as "the Phoenix lights." She
took photographs and video of the lights, and her footage aired
on local television stations, the Discovery Channel and major
news networks. She appeared on radio and other talk shows with
other witnesses but did so under the name Dr. Lynne or Dr. X,
concealing her identity because she said she wanted to preserve
her privacy and credibility as a doctor.

A Valley teenager looking through a telescope that March 1997
evening said it looked like a formation of planes, perhaps
vintage ones headed to an air show in southern Arizona. The
Arizona Air National Guard said the other lights were flares
from a night training exercise.

Whatever they were, Kitei she couldn't forget it. So for seven
years, she did her homework, compiling information about
unidentified flying objects, or UFOs. She said she wanted to be
a "messenger" to educate the public about what she considers a
vital issue.

"It's time to get this data out in the open so that a journey to
a new reality will begin," she said. "As with all unexplained
phenomena, the message is 'Wake up' before we destroy our world.
Let the data speak for itself. Once readers read my book, they
can make their own conclusions as to what it was and what it all
means."

She will promote her book, The Phoenix Lights, at 7 tonight at
the Borders bookstore at the Biltmore Fashion Park. She will
give a short lecture and video presentation and sign copies.
More signings are scheduled through the Valley into late April.

Kitei said she initially didn't want to come forward but decided
she couldn't let her research just sit in a drawer.

Valley resident and author Paul Perry wrote the foreword to the
book and said Kitei worked with scientists, engineers, air-
traffic controllers, university professors and photo analysis
experts to try to explain what she and many others had seen.

But don't look for clear-cut answers in her book. Kitei doesn't
really say what she believes the phenomena to be.


[UFO UpDates thanks Norman for the lead]






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   Mar > Mar 20

                         Re: Zygmunt Adamski? - Pope

From: Nick Pope <nick.nul>
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 19:38:53 -0000
Fwd Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 07:57:42 -0500
Subject: Re: Zygmunt Adamski? - Pope


>From: Chris Zielinski <KRZYSSHULTZ.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 06:49:46 EST
>Subject: Zygmunt Adamski?

>I am intrested in Mr Adamski's mysterious death in Todmorden,
>11th June 1980. He was a close friend of my parents and I
>identified him in Hebden Bridge Mortuary.

>I have an open mind and would like to get in contact with Alan
>Godfrey or anyone else with special interest with the case.

Chris,

An article on this case appeared in the October/November 2000
issue (Number 18) of "Unopened Files". I believe the article was
written by Mark Birdsall, who now edits the intelligence
magazine "Eye Spy". A video entitled "Death By Unnatural Causes"
accompanied the issue of "Unopened Files". This included an
interview with Alan Godfrey.

I can send you a copy of the article if you don't already have
it, but I don't have the video, can't recall where it is, and
don't remember ever having watched it. Your best bet might be to
contact Mark Birdsall at "Eye Spy".


Best wishes,

Nick Pope










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                Re: Jerry Black To Polygraph Bruce Maccabee -

From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg.nul>
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 13:49:55 -0600
Fwd Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 07:58:48 -0500
Subject: Re: Jerry Black To Polygraph Bruce Maccabee -


>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 10:57:42 -0500
>Subject: Re: Jerry Black To Polygraph Bruce Maccabee

>>From: Kenny Young <ufo.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 02:39:58 -0500
>>Subject: Jerry Black To Polygraph Bruce Maccabee

>>Jerry Black called earlier yesterday to inform me of his
>>appreciation of Bruce Maccabee for accepting his invitation to
>>take a lie detector test and that his search is now underway for
>>a polygraph examiner local to the Baltimore area. He said that
>>he will be responding to other UFO UpDates List comments, on his
>>own, in separate messages.

>>The acceptance of Black's invitation is a positive gesture by
>>Bruce Maccabee to answer one of his critics. Will be looking
>>forward to watching things happen.

>I gather, from the generally unenthusiastic response on this
>List, that few people will be sitting on the edge of their seats
>waiting for the results.

Only because they are so valueless, sir. I think you're wasting
your time and engaging in a pointless exercise for little, if
any, gain.

Lehmberg.nul

EXPLORE "AlienViewGroup" at its HostPros URL.
http://www.alienview.net


JOHN FORD RESTORATION FUND -- John will be released eventually.
He'll need a tax free cash stake to get on his feet. Let's put
one together for him; the bigger it is -- the more attention
he gets. It could have been you. E-mail for detail.
$450.00 pledged -- $200.00 collected!

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite.
What others see from afar, I leave far behind me."
- Giordano Bruno, scourged by the scabrously specious scurrilous.








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             Re: Jerry Black To Polygraph Bruce Maccabee - Groff

From: Terry Groff <terry.nul>
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 14:04:02 -0600
Fwd Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 07:59:43 -0500
Subject: Re: Jerry Black To Polygraph Bruce Maccabee - Groff


>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 10:57:42 -0500
>Subject: Re: Jerry Black To Polygraph Bruce Maccabee

>>From: Kenny Young <ufo.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 02:39:58 -0500
>>Subject: Jerry Black To Polygraph Bruce Maccabee

>>Jerry Black called earlier yesterday to inform me of his
>>appreciation of Bruce Maccabee for accepting his invitation to
>>take a lie detector test and that his search is now underway for
>>a polygraph examiner local to the Baltimore area. He said that
>>he will be responding to other UFO UpDates List comments, on his
>>own, in separate messages.

>>The acceptance of Black's invitation is a positive gesture by
>>Bruce Maccabee to answer one of his critics. Will be looking
>>forward to watching things happen.

>I gather, from the generally unenthusiastic response on this
>List, that few people will be sitting on the edge of their seats
>waiting for the results.

If the results show anything other than Mr. Black barking up an
imaginary tree, I would be tremendously surprised!


Terry Groff
UFO Tools
http://terrygroff.com/ufotools/






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   Mar > Mar 20

                   Re: Evidence Of Life On Mars - Stanford

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 15:08:27 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 08:01:00 -0500
Subject: Re: Evidence Of Life On Mars - Stanford


>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 12:28:52 -0400
>Subject: Re: Evidence Of Life On Mars

>>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 20:04:55 -0500
>>Subject: Evidence Of Life On Mars

>>Source: Space.Com
>>http://space.com/missionlaunches/mars_blueberries_040317.html
>>17 March 2004

>>Mystery Spheres on Mars Finally Identified
>>By Leonard David
>>space.com

><snip>

>It's one thing for NASA/JPL to use the scientific method and
>caution when evaluating these anomalies but they should at least
>address the whole of the anomaly, not tentatively propose a half
>solution then drop it and move on. And I'm betting that school's
>not out in any event.
>
>NASA/JPL isn't the only authority in this area.


I agree, Don. Bet on it.

Ray Stanford

"You know my method. It is founded upon the observance of
trifles." -- Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery








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                Re: Jerry Black To Polygraph Bruce Maccabee -

From: John Rimmer <jrimmer.nul>
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 20:25:02 +0000
Fwd Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 08:02:14 -0500
Subject: Re: Jerry Black To Polygraph Bruce Maccabee -


>From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 10:08:45 -0600
>Subject: Re: Jerry Black To Polygraph Bruce Maccabee

>What? This is the stupidest thing I've ever heard! Polygraphs
>are a shim-sham, a crack-pot machine, and are easily defeated.
>So says Dr. Philip Zimbardo of Stanford and a couple of other
>lettered researchers from other universities on an up-dated
>college telecourse I saw just Tuesday.

>Polygraphs are a lie in the fog, completely subjective, and are
>indicative (to the powerful masses) of likely guilt... and only
>_possible_ innocence. They _only_ do harm and _never_ do any
>lasting good, and they are desired only by persons who would
>likely _never_ be strapped to the fallacious machines
>themselves...

>Dr. Maccabee! You don't need to do this! It's not valid; it's
>not science; it proves _nothing_! You've a reputation to stand
>on! Stand on it!

Blimey! What's going on here? I, a cursed pelicanist and
skeptibunker, entirely agree with Alfred Lehmberg!

Polygraph tests are just as he describes: indicative of guilt,
and never proof on innocence. They are, completely phoney
science.

Bruce Maccabee has made a very foolish decision, and once he has
made it any - perfectly rational - second thoughts will be seen
as an admission of guilt!

Bad move.


--
John Rimmer
Magonia Magazine
www.magonia.demon.co.uk/arc/00/newmag.htm







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             Re: Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices? - Boone

From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 15:44:54 EST
Fwd Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 08:04:14 -0500
Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices? - Boone


>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 11:31:40 -0500
>Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices?

>>From: Barry Taylor <stingray.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 18:21:04 +1100
>>Subject: Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices?

>>I have just uploaded an article on my UFO web site titled...
>>"Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices?"

>>www.theozfactor.cjb.net/hoax_05.htm

>>I think you will find it an interesting read.

>I read it and found it an interesting read. I commend you for
>your combined experimental and analytical approach. However, I
>do not agree with it... at least as applied to the famous
>Phoenix Lights footage.

>I also wonder about the accuracy of some of your suggestions as
>to how to make and ignite gas bag balloons. Since I have never
>made one myself I would have to say that _some_ of what you have
>proposed for creating a balloon, such as the "time delayed
>method" (so no one sees a light as the balloon rises to its
>buoyant level, seems unlikely to me.

>But, to return to the Phoenix lights themselves, as one can
>learn from my web page, careful analysis of the video shows that
>the lights *did* move downward and _did_ move slowly sideways
>(to the left) and the triangulations showed they were many tens
>of miles away (60-80). You suggest that they were close because
>they were over Phoenix and bright enough to be videotaped.
>Perhaps you don't realize that even if they had been over the
>city of Phoenix they would have been 5-10 miles from one of the
>videotapers (Krzysten) and perhaps 30 =D8=F8 miles from another
>(Rairdon), yet the images appear equally bright in the videos.

>I don't believe the lights were hoax devices but nevertheless
>they would have some characteristics common to the hoax balloons
>you suggest, if they were, as I suggest (and others before me)
>that they were distant parahute borne bright military flares.

Nice site Mr. Taylor! Thanks. We need more of that.

I have to agree with Dr. Maccabee and can only add a layman's
viewpoint.

Considering the decades old nonsense we all have gotten when
looking into UFO accounts from the authorities we pay, as far as
I'm concerned their 'official' positions are noted but put into
the file marked 'S' for 'Staged'.

In regard to the Phoenix lights incident it has for me shown the
importance of 'witness' testimony now stronger than ever.

If you recall those 'Roswell' disclosures from the Air Force
during the 90's they were chock full of wonderful notes except
interviewing the living credible witnesses! How do you engage in
an investigation and not ask somebody who was there?

Oh yes, I remember, 'Time Compression'.

Where'd that term come from anyway?

What amazes me about the Phoenix Lights is that many of us were
live on the air and online at the time. We got live information
from our fans who were in Phoenix when it was happening! Not
only that but we got live accounts from various areas of Phoenix
and surrounding areas. Info from a myriad of peoples and
occupations and viewpoints. That's data a fella can chaw on for
a spell.

For me, this isn't a mystery it's an event that relies on the
old fashioned way of credible extrapolation:

Asking your neighbors.

Hopefully someone will brave the storm and get everyone who was
there that night to write up what they saw and experienced and
put it all together.

Can't beat that in a court of law :)


Best,

Greg








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             Re: Jerry Black To Polygraph Bruce Maccabee - Hall

From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 21:12:04 +0000
Fwd Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 08:05:40 -0500
Subject: Re: Jerry Black To Polygraph Bruce Maccabee - Hall


>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 10:57:42 -0500
>Subject: Re: Jerry Black To Polygraph Bruce Maccabee

>>From: Kenny Young <ufo.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 02:39:58 -0500
>>Subject: Jerry Black To Polygraph Bruce Maccabee

>>Jerry Black called earlier yesterday to inform me of his
>>appreciation of Bruce Maccabee for accepting his invitation to
>>take a lie detector test and that his search is now underway for
>>a polygraph examiner local to the Baltimore area. He said that
>>he will be responding to other UFO UpDates List comments, on his
>>own, in separate messages.

>>The acceptance of Black's invitation is a positive gesture by
>>Bruce Maccabee to answer one of his critics. Will be looking
>>forward to watching things happen.

>I gather, from the generally unenthusiastic response on this
>List, that few people will be sitting on the edge of their seats
>waiting for the results.

Bruce,

The least you should have done was insist that Jerry Black also
agree to take a polygraph test on the question of what real
basis he has for making the allegations in the first place.


- Dick








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   Mar > Mar 20

                               Polar Orbiters?

From: Eleanor White <eleanor.nul>
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 16:29:20 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 08:06:30 -0500
Subject: Polar Orbiters?


Hi,

Has anyone investigated references to at least one polar
orbiting satellite discovered during the Sputnik era, and
presumed therefore not of Earthly origin?


Eleanor White








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             Re: Scientist Creates Roswell UFO Metal - Stevenson

From: Colon Stevenson <colsweb.nul>
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 21:36:12 -0000
Fwd Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 08:08:18 -0500
Subject: Re: Scientist Creates Roswell UFO Metal - Stevenson


>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 02:05:22 -0800
>Subject: Re: Scientist Creates Roswell UFO Metal

<snip>

>Here's another site I found:

>http://www.liquidmetal.com/news/dsp.news.070502.asp

>.. with some reservations. It turns out that the alloy are
>created by fast cooling, so they don't crystallize like regular
>metals. This implies two big flaws, at least for now.

>1) If they get too hot, they recrystallize and lose their
>special properties.

>2) The super-fast cooling means that at present, they can only
>be produced as thin films or foil. Much thicker and they cool
>too slowly and crystallize again.

>This has apparently been in the news since 1992. Somehow I
>missed out on it.


This may also be of interest;

Weak bond Matter by Magnetism.

The ability to create new forms of matter by simply tuning a
magnetic field presents a powerful new tool. The research could
lead to forging new types of matter from the ground up,
including condensates formed from linking three or more
particles.

http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99994619


Col









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               Re: 'The Mythologist' AKA Armen Victorian/Henry

From: Nick Pope <nick.nul>
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 22:06:38 -0000
Fwd Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 08:10:01 -0500
Subject: Re: 'The Mythologist' AKA Armen Victorian/Henry


>From: Max Burns <max.burns.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 15:42:21 -0000
>Subject: Re: 'The Mythologist' AKA Armen Victorian/Henry Azadehdel

>>From: Nick Pope <nick.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 01:59:23 -0000
>>Subject: Re: 'The Mythologist' AKA Armen Victorian/Henry Azadehdel

>>>From: Joe McGonagle <joe.mcgonagle.nul>
>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 1:38:15 +0000
>>>Subject: 'The Mythologist' AKA Armen Victorian/Henry Azadehdel

>>>John Lundberg emailed me to say that "The Mythologist", a
>>>documentary film which he directed about Henry Azadehdel aka
>>>Armen Victorian will be broadcast in the UK on BBC4 at 10:40pm
>>>next Thursday 25th March. This should be a fascinating
>>>programme, If you have the opportunity to see it then don't pass
>>>it up!

>>>More details, including short clips from the film and details of
>>>some of the people that appear on it or were involved in it's
>>>production can be found at:

>>>http://www.mythologist.co.uk

>>Joe,

>>Thanks. I look forward to this. "Dr Henry" was one of ufology's
>>more colourful characters in the early Nineties. He telephoned
>>me frequently at the MOD and his calls were always entertaining.

>>Either he or Lucien Morgan (another colourful character from
>>those days) claimed that I was a member of 'The Aviary' - a
>>group of serving and former government, military and
>>intelligence personnel who were allegedly setting the ufological
>>agenda.

>>My codename was Woodpecker. Apparently.

>Nick, EBK, Listers,

>I heard something about this a few years ago, apparently all the
>group had codenames after birds. I can't remember where I heard
>it.

>Someone told me that Andy Tugby, who ran one of the IRC/Mirc
>chatrooms, you have been a guest with, Nick.

>The person told me that Andy, was part of this group. His
>chatroom handle was "Crow". I know Andy. He's a normal guy. It
>was just his nick name.

Max,

I think this is a reference to the Crow & Raine website and the
online interviews that they did with me and others. I don't
think this has anything to do with The Aviary, be it real or
imagined:

http://web.ukonline.co.uk/mi6/main.html

The first reference to The Aviary that I found in any of my
books is in chapter 34 of Howard Blum's 1990 book "Out There"
(page 238 in the edition I have; infuriatingly, there's no
index).

But as I'm sure US ufologists will confirm, the roots of the
story surrounding The Aviary lie in the murky saga which
involved Bill Moore, Richard Doty, Jaime Shandera, Paul
Bennewitz and the 1989 documentary "UFO Cover-Up Live"
(strawberry ice cream anyone?).

There are few references to my being a member of The Aviary, and
my supposed nickname - Woodpecker - is more usually attributed
to Jaime Shandera. Members vary according to which internet site
you visit. For the record, the only alleged members I can recall
having met are John Alexander, C. B. Scott Jones, Hal Puthoff
and Bruce Maccabee.

I personally regard this whole saga as "son of MJ-12" nonsense.

I think the first real interest in any of this in the UK was
sparked by an article that "Armen Victorian" wrote for the
July/August 1992 issue of "UFO Magazine", entitled "The Birds".


Best wishes,

Nick Pope








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               Re: 'The Truth' According To Greer - Stevenson

From: Colin Stevenson <colsweb.nul>
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 22:02:17 -0000
Fwd Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 08:11:26 -0500
Subject: Re: 'The Truth' According To Greer - Stevenson


>From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 08:11:27 -0600
>Subject: Re: 'The Truth' According To Greer

>>From: Colin Stevenson <colsweb.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 17:43:04 -0000
>>Subject: Re: 'The Truth' According To Greer

>>>From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 08:41:01 -0600
>>>Subject: Re: 'The Truth' According To Greer

>>>>From: Wendy Connors <fadeddiscs.nul>
>>>>To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>>Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 19:58:41 -0700
>>>>Subject: Re: 'The Truth' According To Greer

>>>><snip>

>>>>>THE TRUTH
>>>>>(THE POWER ELITES DON'T WANT YOU TO KNOW)

>>>>>You are invited to spend 5 days with Dr. Greer at his farm in
>>>>>Virginia to hear what he has learned after 14 years of
>>>>>investigations

>><snip>

>>It could be worth going if he has one or more of these there;

>>http://befreetech.com/techpage.htm

>Now, these things I'm always skeptical of. Whenever I read the
>descriptions of these "gathering free energy from magnets"
>machines, I get the same feeling as when some fast-talker is
>trying to short-change me via a lot of bamboozlement.

>>From what I understand from my high school electronics classes,
>the only way sure fire ways to increase electric motor
>efficiency is to reduce friction or figure out a way to
>eliminate a lot of the CEMF (which basically can't be done). So
>9 times out of 10, it looks like an investment scam. It would be
>cool, of course, if it really, really worked. I would love to be
>proven wrong.

Hi Tim, listers

You could be correct but it's good that at least some folk are
trying with some inspired by Greer and seem to be getting
somewhere with this new tech including with some use of
Neutrino's too although like most folk I am sceptical most the
time.

Magnets have been used for some time on fuel lines to normal car
engines with some reduction in fuel used, cleaner engine and
less pollution or increased performance. So magnetics do have
some applications.

There is a lot of inbuilt energy in magnets, the beefree tech
may actually work ok and it's a shame that most free energy
devises are 'jumped on' by other energy suppliers etc as being a
threat to their business.

Most Scientists say 'you can't get anything for nothing' but
take a look at wind, sea wave, flowing river, hydro dams,
nuclear energy production, and yes, even Oil. It's merely a
matter of getting the technology right as we presume ET does.


Col









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                    Re: Hats Off To George Noory! - Boone

From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 17:53:09 EST
Fwd Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 08:33:32 -0500
Subject: Re: Hats Off To George Noory! - Boone


>From: Royce J. Myers III <ufowatchdog.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 10:48:09 -0800
>Subject: Re: Hats Off To George Noory!


>>From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 03:56:36 EST
>>Subject: Hats Off To George Noory!

<snip>

>>If we're going to win this battle, it'll be up to you
>>professional scientists and researchers to do what you do best
>>and we in the media to provide the assistance necessary for you
>>all to present your conclusions like Mr. Bruce-Knapp does and
>>Jeff Rense and now George Noory.

>>I for one will be tuning in every night to C2C with the comfort
>>of knowing that George Noory has finally seen the light and is
>>brave enough to put his foot down.

>I've heard Noory in the past sound like he's had to bite his lip
>with a couple of guests, you can hear the frustration in the man
>from time to time. Perhaps he has had enough of the BS-factor
>and enough of fools making the rest of us look like fools with
>their utter garbage.

>Now the question is: Is this the beginning or the end of getting
>rid of the rubes? Hopefully, this isn't the end.....


I'm with you on that Royce.

Perhaps with a standard set by Noory last night it'll spread far
and wide and will let people know that we're only interested in
the goods not the soap sell.

If you'd heard the responses from the listeners last night after
Noory resumed the broadcast you'ld be rest assured the public
agrees with it.

Now, if we can only get rid of the childish snipes and weak
attempts at character assassination we'd all be doing the public
a better service and providing a series of ethics and standards
that a field like this must have.

Best,

Greg








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                Re: UFO Magazine Folds After Editor's Death -

From: Joe McGonagle <joe.mcgonagle.nul>
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 23:03:13 -0000
Fwd Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 08:35:48 -0500
Subject: Re: UFO Magazine Folds After Editor's Death -


>From: John Rimmer <jrimmer.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 20:55:17 +0000
>Subject: Re: UFO Magazine Folds After Editor's Death

>>From: Roy Hale <roy.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 14:42:38 -0000
>>Subject: Re: UFO Magazine Folds After Editor's Death

>>>From: From: Joe McGonagle <joe.mcgonagle.nul>
>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 22:43:04 -0000
>>>Subject: Re: UFO Magazine Folds After Editor's Death

<snip>

Hello John, List,

at last, some rational and worthwhile discussion about my
support for FSR!

>>You now advocate people to subscribe to FSR, and you deserved to
>>be pulled up and asked on how such a change had occured within a
>>few months from your reply to my original mail.

>I can't answer from Joe McGonagle, but I wouldn't advocate
>anyone subscribing to FSR, least of all any former readers of
>(UK) UFO Magazine. Whatever you think about its contents, it was
>a porfessionally produced piece of work, which gave its readers
>what they wanted. They would be very disapponted by what FSR has
>(had? I haven't seen it round lately) to offer.

I haven't said that the quality of the content in recent years
was equal to that of UFO Magazine, and I have been mildly
critical of the content of FSR. It would be amazing if any
magazine that was in publication for 50 years didn't encounter
"dry spells" of whatever duration along the way. In recent
years, much of the "dry spell" may have been due to Gordon
Greighton's editorial policy, either directly or indirectly. The
fact is that GC is no longer the editor, and the magazine has an
opportunity to emerge from any problems associated with him
personally.

My point was two-fold. I don't think that anyone is going to try
to replace UFO Magazine with a new product in printed form. I
don't believe that E-zines along the lines of UFO Magazine will
be able to entirely fill the vaccuum left by it. Support (by
contributors and subscribers) that used to contribute/subscribe
to UFO Magazine, if switched to FSR, can breathe new life into
it, and possibly result (in a year or two) with FSR reaching the
news-stands.

>>And besides, aren't you a sceptic? What would a sceptic be
>>doing asking people to subscribe to a Pro Humanoid Contact
>>Magazine? Am I the only person on this List who finds this odd?

>I have to say, Roy, I agree with you on this; I do find Joe's
>advice quite surprising. There is, of course, still one of the
>UK's most established UFO magazines still around, and going from
>strength to strength by not indulging in crazy sensationism.

I have to confess John, that I don't have a single copy of
Magonia. This is not because of any dislike for it, but I have
not encountered any copies on the second-hand market, and I
simply don't have the money or the storage space to subscribe to
every magazine that is currently published or the time to read
them. If you are willing to make a review copy available, I will
happily pass it on to someone on the ufologyinuk list to review
it for the www.ufology.org.uk web site, let me know off-list if
that is agreeable. The same offer is extended to any other UFO
publishers that haven't yet  been reviewed on the site, and
which carry a significant proportion of UK-related material.

>From what I do know of Magonia, I think you will agree that it
>wouldn't appeal to the majority of ex-UFO magazine readers
>though?


Regards,

Joe








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                            FSR Archive CD Review

From: Joe McGonagle <joe.mcgonagle.nul>
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 23:08:45 -0000
Fwd Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 08:37:03 -0500
Subject: FSR Archive CD Review


I have now written the review of the FSR 1955-57 archive CD, and
it is on-line at:

http://www.ufology.org.uk/article_read.asp?id=135

My verdict is:

"I have absolutely no hesitation in saying "Go out and buy this
- _now_!", it will prove interesting to UFO enthusiasts and
researchers, social and space historians, and the curious. At
the price, it represents the best collection of historical
material which I have had the pleasure to come across."

If anyone wants a copy of the review in MSWORD format for their
own web site/publication, please contact me off-List.


Regards,

Joe








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               Re: 'The Truth' According To Greer - Stevenson

From: Colin Stevenson <colsweb.nul>
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 22:41:20 -0000
Fwd Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 08:38:13 -0500
Subject: Re: 'The Truth' According To Greer - Stevenson


>From: Jan Aldrich <project1947.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 11:35:40 -0500
>Subject: Re: 'The Truth' According To Greer

><LOL>Ah, yes, a machine that generates more energy than is put
>into it. How wonderful! Violates the Law of the Conservation of
>Energy. Why the inventor should have the Noble Price locked up.

>Not!

>Scam-alert. Bull butter alert.

>If Greer isn't careful, Otis T. Carr's relatives might sue him
>for infringement of copyrights and pattens.


Hi Jan, listers

Please explain to me why Coal, Wood burning, Oil, Nuclear
generators, Wind energy, flowing water energy, Hydro dams, do
not violate the laws quoted?

Have you ever calculated the amount of energy to produce diesel
compared to the amount of energy it gives when used?

Is it not merely a matter of using the inbuilt energy already
freely available converted to another form?

The Earth spins at quite a high rate so why hasn't anyone used
this fact of inbuilt energy to generate electricity yet? Are
they afraid of slowing the planet's spin rate?

Greer gave great inspiration to many free energy experimenters,
including myself. Are we all are wrong to try to make these
machines because no one knows how they can work?

Long live 'King Oil'. Not a realistic prospect because oil
reserves are running low now.

Now is the time to be looking elsewhere for energy conversion /
production. You never know, someone may create UFO propulsion
drive/s soon without the need of Oil !


Col






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                 Brampton Ontario - 2 Round/Circular Objects

From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO <hbccufo.nul>
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 15:24:46 -0800
Fwd Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 08:43:47 -0500
Subject: Brampton Ontario - 2 Round/Circular Objects


Brampton, Ontario

Date: March 19, 2004
Time:  5:30 a.m.
Shape of objects: Round or Circular like
Full Description of event/sighting:

At about 5:30 a.m. eastern time I was at work and stepped
outside into the yard to have a cigarette. It was about 30
minuets to dawn yet so I could still make out some of the stars.

As I was admiring the morning sky I noticed what I thought to be
a star in a unusual area of the sky at that time of morning and
noted its unusual color, which was an orange pinkish hue.

Then I saw it start to slowly move in a northerly direction and
thought I was seeing a high flying aircraft as my place of
employment is about 15 kilometers from Pearson International
Airport, and we have commercial aircraft fly directly over our
building at any given moment of the day.

Usually the planes at that time in the morning come in from the
west and then bank south to the runways.

What I saw next was amazing.

The object I seen quickly started to accelerate north where it
met with another and similar object which seemed to appear out
of nowhere and they both banked hard and fast to the West,
accelerating and decelerating like they were playing with one
another and while this was going on they seemed to wobble and
shimmer.

I thought I may be imagining things but I wasn't.

They were flying at approximately 7 to 10,000 feet and
accelerated more than the speed of a visible satellite seen on a
clear night.


Brian Vike
Director HBCC UFO Research
Home - Phone 250 845 2189
email: hbccufo.nul
Website: http://www.hbccufo.com

[Brampton is North and West of Toronto --ebk]









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                Re: Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices? -

From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser.nul>
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 17:51:51 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 08:53:01 -0500
Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices? -


>From: Stuart Miller <Stuart.Miller4.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 17:34:56 -0000
>Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices?

>>From: Barry Taylor <stingray.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 18:21:04 +1100
>>Subject: Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices?

>>I have just uploaded an article on my UFO web site titled...
>>"Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices?"

>>www.theozfactor.cjb.net/hoax_05.htm

>>I think you will find it an interesting read.

<snip>

>Second point, you talk about these hoax lights flickering. As I
>recall, the Phoenix lights didn't flicker. The hoax lights you
>describe would generate illumination. The bizarre thing about
>the phenomena that people saw was that the lights on the
>translucent object up there did not throw out illumination at
>all and their spectral make up was one unknown to mankind,
>according to Dilettoso.

Oh, my lord, are people still quoting Dilettoso?








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                   Re: Mars UFO Crops Up On BBC - Stanford

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 20:10:15 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 08:55:32 -0500
Subject: Re: Mars UFO Crops Up On BBC - Stanford


>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 12:48:36 -0400
>Subject: Re: Mars UFO Crops Up On BBC

>>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 20:33:04 -0500
>>Subject: Mars UFO Crops Up On BBC

>>The BBC has finally picked up on the "UFO" (JPL's own name for it on
>>the photo's identification, not mine) photographed on Mars:

>>http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/3520636.stm

<snip>

>When I first posted this I was surprised that JPL would use the
>"U" word. That's like government using the "R" word. Then along
>came the Cosmic Rays and Charged Coupled Device explanation
>which was a bit of a hoot. They shot from the hip on that one.

>You'd never be able to see anything in the photos if that was
>the case. And impacting the CCDs is such a nice straight line,
>too.

>As for a meteor, the trail looks to thick and too short-not
>forgetting of course that it would have to be much lower in
>Mar's atmosphere to have the same appearance as one in Earth's
>atmosphere. Would it not then be much closer/larger, and more
>easily identifiable? I think we can rule out a short duration
>con trail-or can we?

Not necessarily closer, larger and more identifiable. The
question is very complex, because meteoroids that produce
meteors (the luminous effects of their passage through the
atmosphere before retardation to subsonic velocity) can be
extremely tiny and still produce an impressive luminous effect.
Also, the velocity of atmospheric entry can vary greatly,
depending of the meteoroid's orbit (hence its aspect of
intersection with the orbit of Mars) and the angle at which it
intersects the upper atmosphere of Mars. Then too, the luminous
effects one sees in the atmosphere may vary greatly according to
the composition of the cosmic body.

For just one example, the high moisture content of some
meteoroids of cometary origin could become quite volatile and
even explosive, putting on 'much more of a show' than a more
coherent mass, such as small nickel-iron bodies, or some other
bodies of asteroidal origin.

In the photo of the Mars "UFO" streak, there are many unanswered
questions. It is my understanding that the 'photo' is really a
photo mosaic of many images taken over several seconds (either
six or fifteen, if I recall correctly), but I still do not know
for sure just how many of those seconds the luminous something,
per se, was photographed ('visible' to the camera).

Certainly the image seems to be a photo composite (mosaic), as
suggested by some things about the 'trail'. Even if we are
looking at a trail and not a singular, very long and narrow
object or phenomenon, we do not know whether the luminous thing
making the light-smear trail was circular, elliptical, or what.

There are things about the 'trail' that (if they are not an
artifact of the photo mosaic) might be interpreted as suggesting
a luminous object was either rotating or had a rotating pattern
of lights (as do some terrestrially reported UFOs) on its
surface, or both. There are even some things that might not only
suggest a spinning-of-axis luminous or incandescent body, but
that the body also might (only might) have had a slow wobble (or
slow tumble) aside from the spinning. The spinning and, or
tumbling is not unusual for some meteors seen and
photographically tracked on earth.

As I said in an earlier posting, however, there are things about
the image that make me doubt that it was a meteor. At least for
now, I will not try to describe those factors here, except to
say that one of them is the insubstantial width variation of the
'trail', despite the very evident luminosity differential across
it, horizontally.

There are a lot of questions I'd like to ask anyone at JPL who
might be able to answer them, but I suspect the JPL people have
their hands full with so much, right now, as to not want to
answer such questions. They might not want to answer them,
anyhow. :)

But, I can't help but recall former NASA head Dan Goldin's
statement upon release of items found in a Martian meteorite
discovered in Antarctica that was interpreted by some as
evidence of fossilized nano-organisms. He said, something like,
"...so we're opening the door just a little..."

Well, I hope this is an example of NASA deliberately "opening
the door" just a little more, but I wouldn't bet on that -- not
with the NASA director, Sean O'Keefe, in the pocket of the
President and one so short-sighted that he blocks a manned
servicing mission to the most scientifically productive
operation NASA has ever conducted, the Hubble Space Telescope.

It is just my personal opinion, but, I don't think the Columbia
shuttle disaster was the worse to ever hit NASA (albeit a
terrible personal disaster for the astronauts and their families
that might have been avoided if Director Sean O'Keefe had been
'on the ball') in recent years. I think the appointment of
O'Keefe as Director was the bigger disaster, and that he was to
some degree negligently responsible for the other disaster. In
some ways he does appear to realize that latter fact, however.
Still, O'Keefe seems only a businessman with no real grasp of
engineering or of science and appears to be devoid of the vision
that distinguishes pioneers from puppets, and men of vision from
political mice.


Ray Stanford

"You know my method. It is founded upon the observance of
trifles." -- Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery









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   Mar > Mar 20

                Re: Jerry Black To Polygraph Bruce Maccabee -

From: Brenda Denzler <denzlerb.nul>
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 20:09:49 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 08:59:39 -0500
Subject: Re: Jerry Black To Polygraph Bruce Maccabee -


>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 10:57:42 -0500
>Subject: Re: Jerry Black To Polygraph Bruce Maccabee

>>From: Kenny Young <ufo.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 02:39:58 -0500
>>Subject: Jerry Black To Polygraph Bruce Maccabee

>>Jerry Black called earlier yesterday to inform me of his
>>appreciation of Bruce Maccabee for accepting his invitation to
>>take a lie detector test and that his search is now underway for
>>a polygraph examiner local to the Baltimore area. He said that
>>he will be responding to other UFO UpDates List comments, on his
>>own, in separate messages.

>>The acceptance of Black's invitation is a positive gesture by
>>Bruce Maccabee to answer one of his critics. Will be looking
>>forward to watching things happen.

>I gather, from the generally unenthusiastic response on this
>List, that few people will be sitting on the edge of their seats
>waiting for the results.

Try this instead of a polygraph?

Brenda Denzler

--------------------------------------------------

Source: Seattle Post-Intelligencer

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/162685_brain01.html

Monday, March 1, 2004


'Brain Fingerprinting' Touted As Truth Meter

Scientist says guilt or innocence can be assessed by testing
electrical brain waves

By Tom Paulson
Seattle Post-Intelligencer Reporter

"Brain fingerprinting" sounds like science fiction, but for one
man it could be a matter of life and death.

Larry Farwell, a Harvard-trained neuroscientist who works out of
a small office in the Washington Technology Center on the
University of Washington campus, hopes to use the case of
Oklahoma death-row inmate Jimmy Ray Slaughter to convince law
enforcement officials and the courts that the technique is
scientifically sound and accurate.

Farwell, whose father was a UW physicist who worked on the
Manhattan Project, believes that Slaughter's case could be a key
test of legal acceptance of the technique.

An appeal of Slaughter's case is expected to be decided by the
U.S. Supreme Court, perhaps as early as this week, said Robert
Jackson, an Oklahoma defense lawyer representing Slaughter.

Slaughter, who was convicted in the 1994 brutal murders of his
11-month-old daughter and her mother, is unlikely to prevail

in his case before the nation's highest court, Jackson said.

But he hopes that new evidence, including the results from
Farwell's innovative and controversial new forensic technology,
will at least open the door to a new argument before the state
Court of Appeals.

"The technique was ruled admissible by an Iowa court," Jackson
said. "We're running out of options and time. We're hoping the
brain fingerprinting will at least get the appeals court to stay
the execution."

Farwell said his brain-testing technique, done on Slaughter last
month, indicates that the man is almost certainly innocent of
both murders.

"It's very clear that he does not know some of the most salient
features of the crime," Farwell said. "We have 99 percent
statistical confidence in our results, and Mr. Slaughter just
did not know some of the things that the perpetrator of this
crime would have known."

Because Slaughter's "brain fingerprint" constitutes new evidence
not being considered in the Supreme Court appeal, Farwell said,
there's a chance that the appellate court will order a new
trial.

That is what happened in Iowa last year for convicted murder
Terry Harrington, who was freed after spending 25 years of a
life sentence for a 1978 murder when the court admitted
Farwell's test as evidence of Harrington's innocence.

It didn't happen for J.B. Grinder, an accused murderer in Macon
County, Mo. The brain-fingerprint test -- requested by the
county sheriff -- showed that Grinder did have "special"
knowledge of the murder. He confessed and was sentenced to life
in prison.

"It works both ways," said Drew Richardson, a former FBI
scientist who left the federal agency to become Farwell's vice
president for forensics.

"You're asking a suspect about information that would only be
known to the guilty person," Richardson said.

You can do that with a regular lie detector, he said, but people
can easily learn how to beat the standard polygraph's measure of
stress. Brain fingerprinting, Richardson said, involves
measuring an involuntary and non-controllable mental response to
the information.

Farwell's technique is based on an electrical signal in the
brain known as a p300 wave. Named because it is an involuntary
response to a recognized object or word that usually happens
within 300 milliseconds, the phenomenon is widely accepted and
not controversial within the neuroscience community.

What's controversial is Farwell's claim that he has figured out
a foolproof way to use the p300 and a secondary, related
electrical brain response -- which he has dubbed a MERMER, for
"memory and encoding related multifaceted
electroencephalographic response" -- to replace the much-
maligned (and legally inadmissible) polygraph test.

"More research does need to be done on the brain wave
techniques, but it's already far better than the polygraph,"
said David Lykken, a retired professor of psychology at the
University of Minnesota and a leading critic of the forensic use
of polygraphs.

"There is no scientific validity supporting the use of the
polygraph test," Lykken said. "It's worse than Russian
roulette."

The National Academy of Sciences issued a report last fall that
determined much the same, adding damningly that there is likely
no way to improve on the polygraph's accuracy because of the
"inherent ambiguity" of what's measured.

The blue-ribbon panel briefly touched on Farwell's approach as
an alternative, noting that it had promise but still needs more
study.

Frank Horvath, a professor of criminology at Michigan State
University and a member of the American Polygraph Association,
said Farwell's brain-fingerprinting scheme remains largely
unproven

"There's a lot of value in looking at brain wave activity, but
there's also a lot of hype," said Horvath, who is also a
consultant to the Defense Department's Polygraph Institute. He
said not enough research has been done to back up Farwell's
claims of accuracy, and the approach has some critical
limitations even if it is shown to be effective.

"It can only be used when the investigator has specific
knowledge of something that only the guilty person would know,"
Horvath said. In many crimes, he said, the investigators won't
have the kind of information needed to adequately test a
suspect.

Until more work can be done to establish the effectiveness of
Farwell's technique, Horvath said, it is best to stick with the
proven track record of the polygraph.

Farwell, who has patented his technique and conducted published
research, agrees that more studies will be needed to objectively
assess the effectiveness of brain fingerprinting. But he doesn't
think this means it shouldn't also be put to use now.

"We have a backlog of some 400 cases from people who say they've
been falsely accused," he said. "Should we have told Jimmy Ray
Slaughter, with maybe 90 days to live, that we can't apply this
technology until everyone is convinced of the science?"

Farwell said he formed a private company, Brainwave Science,
because he wanted to contribute to the betterment of people's
lives.

"I would have been happy continuing to do research, but I
realized I could make a difference," he said.

Farwell said he patented his technique almost 10 years ago but
only recently decided, after initially collaborating with
researchers at the FBI and CIA, to try to launch his innovation
through the world of business and commerce.

He is looking for "angel investors," people with large chunks of
cash willing to invest in something on the cutting edge.

The pioneer of brain fingerprinting has a pedigree that, at the
very least, should make people consider that he may be on to
something. His physicist father, the late George Farwell, was on
the team of scientists assembled by famed physicist Enrico Fermi
for the development of the atomic bomb.

"My father's dissertation, on the discovery of plutonium-240,
wasn't declassified until the 1960s," Farwell noted.

George Farwell, who died only last year (two days after giving a
UW physics lecture in his pajamas and an overcoat), inspired his
son to aggressively pursue scientific truth.

Farwell said he is, in turn, trying to use science to establish
the truth.

"I realize this sounds like science fiction to a lot of people,"
Farwell said. "But this is based on solid science. Once people
understand the technique, it just makes sense."


P-I reporter Tom Paulson can be reached at:

206-448-8318
or
tompaulson.nul







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   Mar > Mar 20

             Re: Jerry Black To Polygraph Bruce Maccabee - Frola

From: Robert Frola <ufologist.nul>
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 11:11:25 +1000
Fwd Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 09:01:11 -0500
Subject: Re: Jerry Black To Polygraph Bruce Maccabee - Frola


>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 10:57:42 -0500
>Subject: Re: Jerry Black To Polygraph Bruce Maccabee

>>From: Kenny Young <ufo.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 02:39:58 -0500
>>Subject: Jerry Black To Polygraph Bruce Maccabee

>>Jerry Black called earlier yesterday to inform me of his
>>appreciation of Bruce Maccabee for accepting his invitation to
>>take a lie detector test and that his search is now underway for
>>a polygraph examiner local to the Baltimore area. He said that
>>he will be responding to other UFO UpDates List comments, on his
>>own, in separate messages.

>>The acceptance of Black's invitation is a positive gesture by
>>Bruce Maccabee to answer one of his critics. Will be looking
>>forward to watching things happen.

>I gather, from the generally unenthusiastic response on this
>List, that few people will be sitting on the edge of their seats
>waiting for the results.


Bruce, my opinion, for what its worth, that its a bad idea and
proves nothing. Your reputation stands alone. Your research
unchallenged and solid. You don't need to entertain the
skeptics.


Robert Frola
EDITOR
The Australasian Ufologist Magazine








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   Mar > Mar 20

             Re: Spielberg & Cruise 'War of The Worlds' - Ledger

From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
Date: Fri, 01 Jan 1904 03:17:56 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 09:03:36 -0500
Subject: Re: Spielberg & Cruise 'War of The Worlds' - Ledger


>From: Greg Sandow <greg.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 11:35:33 -0500
>Subject: Re: Spielberg & Cruise 'War of The Worlds'

>>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 09:21:17>-0600
>>Subject: Re: Spielberg & Cruise 'War of The Worlds'

>>That fllm updated the story, so we earthlings fight the invading
>> Martians with jet planes and atomic bombs, instead of with
>>artillery, as H. G. Wells described. I'd love to know if
>>Spielberg will set his movie in the present day, or (which I'd
>>love to see) in the 1890s.


>So would I. In fact, that was the first question that came to mind
>as I read this report. A modern-day version would be, I'm afraid,
>just another space-invasion yarn, of which there are all too many
>already.

>That was the first thing I wondered about, too. In the movie, the
>Martians were invulnerable. Not even an atom bomb could stop them.
>It's surprising, even so, how exciting the movie is.

>But in the novel, the Martians sometimes get hurt. A lucky artillery
>shell can smash them. And at one point, as Martian battle machines
>are crossing the Thames to conquer London, a battleship rams one of
>them and destroys it. This makes the story more powerful.

>Plus, there's something wonderful in Wells's 1898 idea of what
>Martian invaders would be like. When, toward the end of the book,
>they begin to fly, it's a tremendous, demoralizing shock to a humans
>who don't yet have airplanes. The Martians sweep through the
>countryside in huge conveyances that literally walk, on legs taller
>than any building. They grab things with long tentacles, and sweep
>their heat rays over the countryside, while howling with horrible
>weird voices. That would be fabulous in a movie. I'd love to see it.



Hi Greg and Jerry,

As he did in the Time Machine, Wells abandoned character development
for a richly drawn, descriptive narrative. In War of the Worlds a sense
of impending doom pervades the story. Earthlings were scurrying about
seeking shelter to avoid detection, and there was a feeling of
helplessness amongst the human population. I read them both as a
youngster and was deeply influenced by them. It was back then that I
became determined to take up writing sometime during my life.
I hope Spielberg respects Wells and his book and does them justice. I'm
looking forward to it.


Don Ledger









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             Re: Jerry Black To Polygraph Bruce Maccabee - McCoy

From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy.nul>
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 19:32:16 -0800
Fwd Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 09:05:02 -0500
Subject: Re: Jerry Black To Polygraph Bruce Maccabee - McCoy


>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 10:57:42 -0500
>Subject: Re: Jerry Black To Polygraph Bruce Maccabee

>>From: Kenny Young <ufo.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 02:39:58 -0500
>>Subject: Jerry Black To Polygraph Bruce Maccabee

>>Jerry Black called earlier yesterday to inform me of his
>>appreciation of Bruce Maccabee for accepting his invitation to
>>take a lie detector test and that his search is now underway for
>>a polygraph examiner local to the Baltimore area. He said that
>>he will be responding to other UFO UpDates List comments, on his
>>own, in separate messages.

>>The acceptance of Black's invitation is a positive gesture by
>>Bruce Maccabee to answer one of his critics. Will be looking
>>forward to watching things happen.

>I gather, from the generally unenthusiastic response on this
>List, that few people will be sitting on the edge of their seats
>waiting for the results.

Hell Bruce,

In my opinion. This is going to be the equivalent of (for you
Boxing fans) Louis vs.Schmelling.

In other words, don't go to the bathroom while this is
happening. <G>

GT McCoy









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                        Re: JPL's Mars UFO - LeClair

From: Aaron LeClair <force.nul>
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 23:32:54 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 09:11:32 -0500
Subject: Re: JPL's Mars UFO - LeClair


>From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 09:34:05 -0600
>Subject: Re: JPL's Mars UFO

>>From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 14:54:23 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
>>Subject: Re: JPL's Mars UFO

>>Today's BBC news story on JPL's Mars UFO that was written by Dr.
>>David Whitehouse agrees with us that this unexplainable streak
>>in the Martian sky is a "UFO" (their term)!

>>http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/3520636.stm

>Couple of things.

>No, it doesn't look like a meteor streak, because it doesn't
>have that typical tapering you see on almost all meteor photos.
>Unless the meteor is going r-e-a-l s-l-o-w. It's also oddly
>irregular.

>Of course, you might expect some change in apparent brightness
>as it goes across the sky in a thicker atmosphere, like on
>Earth. But with such a thin atmosphere on Mars, the light trace
>would probably be a lot more regular. That might count against
>it being something high in orbit, like a moon (although if it's
>a rotating satellite the brightness could possibly change).

>Third, doesn't it look a little bit like that UFO Tim Edwards
>filmed in Colorado a few years back? I'm not sayin' anything,
>I'm just sayin'...


Just had a look at a blow up of the picture, and that photo does
look like Tim Edwards UFO. Not sure if it was doctored or not

Later I might try and get some images and blow them up to see if
I get the same thing.








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   Mar > Mar 20

                     FidoNet - Armen Victorian & Aviary

From: Terry W. Colvin <fortean1.nul>
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 21:38:31 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 09:18:34 -0500
Subject: FidoNet - Armen Victorian & Aviary


From the FidoNet UFO Conference: Fri 11 Mar 94 8:53a

By: Don Allen
To: All
Re: Aviary Expose
-----------------------------------------------------------------
.nul: 1:3623/18.nul 2308c87e

 * Forwarded from "MUFON_PUBLIC"
 * Originally by Bob Dunn
 * Originally to All
 * Originally dated 8 Mar 1994, 22:07


I received the following file from George Hansen today with
instructions to release it immediately on the computer UFO
networks.

 -=BEGIN FILE=-

To: Those interested in government-UFO-parapsychology coverup

From: George P. Hansen
    Princeton Arms North 1, Apt. 59
    Cranbury, NJ 08512
     (609) 426-0927

Subject: Dr. Victorian exposes John Alexander of the Aviary

Date: 01 March 1994

Dr. Armen Victorian, the intrepid UFO investigator from
Nottingham, England has uncovered disturbing material regarding
the activities of Dr. John B. Alexander who now holds a high
position at Los Alamos National Laboratory. Alexander has
engaged in secret government work on parapsychology and UFOs. He
was officially involved with the U.S. Army's investigation of
the Cash-Landrum case (in which U.S. citizens received severe
radiation burns). He has admitted that the "Colonel Harold
Phillips" in Howard Blum's book, "Out There" was based on
himself. Alexander serves on the board of directors of Psi Tech,
a company formed by military intelligence personnel trained in
remote viewing.

Within the last year, Alexander has achieved national prominence
in the area of non-lethal warfare. His picture appeared on the
cover of the January 24, 1994, issue of Aviation Week and Space
Technology (as many of you know, UFO debunker Philip J. Klass
was an editor of AW&ST). The Wall Street Journal (January 4,
1993) and the Boston Globe (March 7, 1993) also gave Alexander
considerable coverage.

Victorian's discovery (the text follows) is exceptionally
important. He made an FOIA request to Los Alamos, which was
denied; he then made a second request for material related to
denial of his first request. He hit paydirt. As can be seen in
the attached pages, the CIA has taken action against those who
have attempted to uncover the truth. Also the threats directed
against U.S. citizen Martin Cannon should be of grave concern to
everyone. In addition, Alexander's implicating of Bruce Maccabee
should give everyone in ufology reason for worry.

The most extensive coverage of Alexander and the Aviary has been
published in the New Jersey periodical "Third Eyes Only."
Starting with Issue No. 1, Alexander's connection with C. B.
Scott Jones was discussed. Issue No. 3 covered Jones' warning
that the government may "destroy property and take lives" if it
became embarrassed about the UFO coverup. Nearly all following
issues have carried material on the coverup, including articles
by Victorian, Cannon, and myself.

-----------------------------------------------

Under the letterhead of Los Alamos National Laboratory the
following memorandum appeared, stamped "IN CONFIDENCE". At the
top was a handwritten note saying: "Delivered to Judy Rose
Archuleta, CRM-se on 9/28 by John Alexander."

To: Gilbert Ortiz, CRM-DO, MS A150
Date: 28 September 1993
From: John Alexander
Mail Stop/Telephone: C-983/5-3586
Symbol: IT-6
Subject: FOIA REQUESTS BY "DR. VICTORIAN"

This is to provide you information pertaining to FOIA requests
submitted by "Dr. Victorian" from England.

First, the requester is falsely presenting himself. He is not a
"Dr." nor is he a "Victorian." His real name is Henry Azadehdel.
He is a convicted felon who has been involved in smuggling. His
exploits have been widely covered in the British press and I
have copies of such articles should you be interested in seeing
them. But, there is no reason for you to have suspected him
unless you were aware of his misrepresentation.

Azadehdel/Victorian has been attempting inappropriately to
elicit information on various topics for some time. At one point
he virtually threatened to attack me in writing if I did not
release information he believed to be classified. I have refused
to respond to any of his requests. Somehow, he illegally
obtained a copy of my military personnel files and has
distributed them. While the files are accurate and relatively
straight-forward, they are expessed lately prohibited from being
released. I filed my own FOIA request to determine how the files
got out.

In addition to my files, Azadehdel has been involved in writing
other material about me. Were it published in the United States,
and be reasonably available, I would have sued for libel.

Azadehdel has used his false credentials to obtain information
from many key people including ADM Bobby Inman, ex-director of
NSA. His normal approach is to refer to some key person he may
or may not have talked with, and then ask for relatively benign
information. Once he gets a piece of information, he keeps
expanding his demands, a classic psychological "foot in the
door" technique. He has conducted the same process with ex-CIA
official Dr. Christopher "Kit" Green, and another civilian
scientist with ties to the Government, Dr. Hal Puthoff. In both
cases he published papers that would be considered libelous.
Most recently he has been involved in a written attack against
Dr. Bruce Maccabee, U.S. Navy Surface Weapons Center.

Previously, I have discussed these matters with members of the
CIA and NSA. I considered going to the State Department and
having them ask the British Government to intervene. While the
requests you have received appear to be within legal bounds, he
has asserted he wants access to informaton he believes to be
classified. I have learned that the CIA has asked both British
Intelligence and the police to assist in resolving problems with
Azadehdel. They may have also brought in the Justice Department
as the requests were initiated under false names.

In direct response to your reply about near-death studies, the
answer was correct. Los Alamos has never been involved in near-
death or related studies. It is true that I personally, have
extensive experience in the field and consider it to be an
avocation. That does not translate to institutional interest.

Given the information above, and as Azadehdel is a foreign
national, I suggest a short reply be sent that states we are not
going to provide him information on these or any other topics.
The CIA may be able to provide other aliases which Azadehdel is
known to use. If a central database on FOIA is available you may
want to put all off (sic) those names in and not respond to any
of his requests, current or future.

-------------------------------------------------

Dr. Victorian wrote a letter to Gilbert Ortiz responding to the
statements of John Alexander. The text:


Los Alamos National laboratory,        Dr. A. Victorian,
Mr. Gilbert Ortiz,                     P.O. Box: 99,
Information Practices,                 West PDO,
Mail Stop A150,                        Nottingham, NG8 3NT
Los Alamos, NM 87545                   England
USA

Date: 14 FEB 1994

Ref: BN-294

Dear Mr. Ortiz,

I have received and studied a copy of John Alexander's
Memorandum IN CONFIDENCE, dated September 28, 1993, to you,
delivered by J. Alexander to Judy Rose.

Pertaining the slanderous allegations made by the named [J.
Alexander], I draw your attention to the following;

1. This is an open letter and is not written in confidence. You
may, if you so wish, provide a copy to John Alexander. I have no
objections.

2. I totally reject all and any allegations made by John
Alexander in his written Memorandum of September 28, 1993 - IN
CONFIDENCE.

3. My true identity is and has always been A. Victorian. I
strenuously reject any false allegations made by John Alexander
concerning my identity.

4. My article about him is based on fact, and IS published in
the USA, as well as a number of other countries worldwide. I
have also participated in numerous documentaries as a researcher
and continue to do so. I await with great anticipation Mr.
Alexander's legal action in this regard.

5. ALL of Mr. Alexander's military records, contrary to his
wrongful assertions, were obtained ABSOLUTELY legally. I invite
Mr. Alexander to take whatever legal action he may wish as proof
of his claims to the contrary.

6. Information concerning his research in the Near Death
expriences were given to me by his very close allies and quite
openly. Documentation to that effect is available, should John
Alexander wish to take any further action. In fact his "PhD
Thesis" [which I have studied] was written on the subject of
Near Death Experiences.

7. I have spoken to John Alexander only once. For the record,
and as investigative research the coversation was recorded.
Never, except that one occasion I have talked to him, neither, I
have issued any threats for any information. All of my research
activities are within the boundaries of the law, each carrying
proper references. Once more, I invite and challenge John
ALexander (sic) for the proof of his contentious remarks.

8. Mr. Alexander, upon his own personal admission, belongs to a
particular group of individuals, specialising in dissemination
of disinformation. He holds a bird's title. The group is
collectively known as the AVIARY. Mr. Alexander's title within
that group is the PENGUIN. I enclose a recent article in which
John Alexander openly admits his membership. My article is an
expose' on him and the group, and names the others in the same
group; Hal Puthoff - OWL, Christopher "Kit" Green - BLUEJAY,
Bruce Maccabee - Sea Gull, and others that he has not mentioned
in his memorandum. The title of these individuals, as named
here, are confirmed either by themselves, or their close friends
and associates in the same group [AVIARY], and are well
documented and further reconfirmed by the independent sources.

In closing, I would like to learn from Mr. Alexander why did he
issue a death threat to a Mr. Martin Cannon [a fellow
researcher] in California [thru his wife Victoria
Lacas/Alexander]? Mr. Cannon in fact broadcast Mr. Alexander's
threat, which was taped on the phone in a radio programme in US
last year [1993]. I possess evidence to that effect both from
Mr. Cannon and others concerning this matter.

I enclose herewith a relevant portion of Mr. Cannon's letter
[which was further confirmed by him in the course of a telephone
conversation]. Further written inquiries to Mrs. Alexander
addressing this issue and requesting for an explanation produced
no results [Mrs. Alexander had regular correspondence with me
both prior and after her marriage with John - records available
to that effect]. It seems obvious and peculiar that in any
occasion where Mr. Alexander's wishes are not met, he resorts to
issuing threats [as it is in my case with his memorandum].

Such attitude from the ethical point of view raises some serious
questions with regards to his qualification in discharging his
duties honourably, and without resorting to issuing threats. The
same ethics dictate that individuals exceeding their authority
should be prepared to face disciplinary action for the misuse of
authority bestowed upon them.

Sincerely,

A. Victorian

Encl: Attached, as stated {not included in this transcription}

CC: To media and researchers, with the copy of John Alexander's
memorandum of 28 SEP 1993, IN CONFIDENCE. File.

 -=END FILE=-

I haven't had a chance to talk to Mr. Hansen about this file,
but his telephone number is included should anyone else wish to
contact him. I think that Alexander's alleged admission of being
the "Penguin" is contained in Victorian's "The Pentagon's
Penguin" article published in Lobster Press last year which is
available on file here at the Fortean Research Center at (402)
488-2587 as PENGUIN.ZIP. Victorian says that Alexander made this
admission in a taped telephone conversation with him and I'm not
sure if anyone else has heard this tape and confirmed this.

I have heard Martin Cannon's tape of Victoria Alexander (nee
Lacas) telling him that John had threatened to "sick Gordon
Novel" on him but since I've never spoken to Ms. Alexander
before I can't confirm if that was really her or how serious a
threat that was. For information on Mr. Novel and his alleged
ties to the CIA and the JFK assassination see the book "Coup
D'etat In America" by Alan J. Weberman and Michael Canfield.

One last thing I noticed, Victorian makes a big deal about
Alexander's interest in Near Death Experiences, but Alexander
never denied that he had (or has) an interest in such matters,
he only denied that there was any research going on in that area
at Los Alamos. Well those are my initial comments on the file,
anyone else care to join in?

Bob Dunn

 ---
 * Origin: * <-> FidoNet UFO Moderator * (1:3623/18)

-----


-- "Only a zit on the wart on the heinie of progress." Copyright
1992, Frank Rice


Terry W. Colvin
Sierra Vista
Arizona (USA)

fortean1.nul







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                 Re: 'The Truth' According To Greer - Hatch

From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 04:03:31 -0800
Fwd Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 10:04:30 -0500
Subject: Re: 'The Truth' According To Greer - Hatch


>From: Colin Stevenson <colsweb.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 17:43:04 -0000
>Subject: Re: 'The Truth' According To Greer

><snip>

>It could be worth going if he has one or more of these there;

>http://befreetech.com/techpage.htm

>Just to see if it actually is what he 'dropped' although its a
>little larger than he claimed.

>Credit where credit is due for what he may have started. Free
>electricity and 20 Kilowatts of it.

Hi Col:


<ROFLMOL>  [burp]

- Larry Hatch









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                           A Steven Greer Response

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 10:16:17 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 10:16:17 -0500
Subject: A Steven Greer Response




List,

The following came my way yesterday. I post it FYI,
despite its origin - again, only FYI.....

ebk

-----


Source: DrRichBoylanReports.nul

"Factual reports from Dr. Richard Boylan, one of the foremost
researchers on Star Visitors, UFOs, encounters with Star People,
and the human condition post-contact."


From: Richard Boylan, Ph.D. [mailto:drboylan.nul]
Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 11:49 PM
To: DrRichBoylanReports.nul
Subject: [DrRichBoylanReports] Steven Greer's response, and my analysis
         thereof


(Steven Greer, MD responded:)

"To Whom It May Concern,

Ongoing slander requires that I respond to allegations being made in
various circles.

The event next month is limited to 15 people because it will be held
at our private home and we can only accommodate this number of
people. A donation is requested since the intent of the gathering is
to create a historical record of events and the production of
materials to release to the public will cost between $20,000 and
$25,000, conservatively (out of pocket expenses only). Far from this
being some elite event, it is designed to quickly get the truth and
historical record out to the general public. This is the express
purpose of the gathering and the resulting materials which will be
created.

Ridiculous and unfounded allegations that somehow I am a member of a
high cabal, or have somehow sold out to same, are baseless. In
reality, we are fiercely independent and our goals and purpose have
been clearly articulated. Our actions speak for our intent.
It is true that we have had important discussions with a number of
people and organizations related to covert programs, as well as
leaders of government and society generally. Our purpose is to
provide insight, information and perspective and to engage such
groups and individuals to persuade them to disclose the truth before
it is too late.

Jealous ranting notwithstanding, we feel it important that all
people be viewed as educable and capable of transformation -even the
power elites. We are neither influenced =D8=F8 nor corrupted in any way by=

such contacts. On the contrary, it is a measure of our sincerity
that we wish to engage all parties and view all humans as our
brothers and sisters who can see that it is time for the truth to
come out, and encourage them to facilitate such a disclosure.
As for the endless ad hominem attacks, it is any wonder so few
people of capacity step forward to engage this issue? Those so badly
behaving need only look in the mirror to apprehend why the secrecy
continues. "

DrSGreer.nul

<><><><><><><><><>

Friends,

Steven Greer's response to my questioning his "secret
disclosure" (sic) is phrased in his customary smooth and reassuring
prose. But an examination of what he says, and what he avoids
talking about, is illuminating.

It is not clear what "ongoing slander" Steven Greer is
referring to.

Is he accusing the dowsi

<><><><><><><><><>








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              Re: More Strange Sightings This Time In The Air -

From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 06:43:40 -0800
Fwd Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 13:06:05 -0500
Subject: Re: More Strange Sightings This Time In The Air -


>From: Ron Decker <decker.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 13:15:54 -0600
>Subject: Re: More Strange Sightings This Time In The Air


>>Source: The Tahlequah Daily Press, Tahlequah, Oklahoma

>>http://tahlequahdailypress.com/articles/2004/03/04/news/top_stories/aaaflying.
prt

>>March 4, 2004

>>More Strange Sightings, This Time In The Air

>>By Eddie Glenn, Press Staff Writer

>>Yesterday, when we ended our discussion of strange sightings in
>>Cherokee County, the topic was Bigfoot, that large hairy beast
>>who walks upright and allegedly digs through people's trash.

><snip>

>In 1970 I had friends who lived near Tahlequah while attending
college. They lived out and heated their home with wood.

>One summer day while they were resting from their wood chopping
labors and enjoying a cup of coffee they heard a whirring noise
that was followed by clicking. They couldn't locate the source
of the noises until they looked up. They spotted two UFOs above
the tree tops following the course of a creek bed not far from
where they were cutting wood. The UFOs would move and the
whirring sound would be produced. Then the UFOs stopped and the
clicking would start. They watched the pair of UFOs go through
this routine until they disappeared around the corner of a
hollow, about ten minutes in all. All the while the UFOs whirred
and clicked.

>Per my friends the UFOs were not large and were of a silver
color.


Hello Ron:

I'm up way past my bedtime, so please forgive any bile or
misunderstanding [burp!]

Did (your?) friends describe the _shape_ or _form_ of the UFO?

Failure to specify this telling datum almost invariably leads to
a useless night-light or LITS report.

Discerning readers of the Weekly World UFO reports newsletters
have long since learned to read between the lines in this
particular regard.

It is painful and time-wasting to have to drive this same
stubborn nail down, over and over.  A bargain basement nite-lite
does not become truly interesting with three easy pokes at the
keyboard.

And thanks, whoever it was, for the term 'bargain basement'
UFOs. I tried to find your name, but failed alas.

Apologetically

- Larry Hatch









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                    Re: Hats Off To George Noory! - Hatch

From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 07:05:32 -0800
Fwd Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 13:09:27 -0500
Subject: Re: Hats Off To George Noory! - Hatch


>From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 17:53:09 EST
>Subject: Re: Hats Off To George Noory!

>>From: Royce J. Myers III <ufowatchdog.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 10:48:09 -0800
>>Subject: Re: Hats Off To George Noory!

>>>From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 03:56:36 EST
>>>Subject: Hats Off To George Noory!

 ><snip>

>>>If we're going to win this battle, it'll be up to you
>>>professional scientists and researchers to do what you do best
>>>and we in the media to provide the assistance necessary for you
>>>all to present your conclusions like Mr. Bruce-Knapp does and
>>>Jeff Rense and now George Noory.

>>>I for one will be tuning in every night to C2C with the comfort
>>>of knowing that George Noory has finally seen the light and is
>>>brave enough to put his foot down.

>>I've heard Noory in the past sound like he's had to bite his
>>lip with a couple of guests, you can hear the frustration in the
>>man from time to time. Perhaps he has had enough of the
>>BS-factor and enough of fools making the rest of us look like
>>fools with their utter garbage.

>>Now the question is: Is this the beginning or the end of
>>getting rid of the rubes? Hopefully, this isn't the end.....

>I'm with you on that Royce.

>Perhaps with a standard set by Noory last night it'll spread
>far and wide and will let people know that we're only interested
>in the goods not the soap sell.

>If you'd heard the responses from the listeners last night
after Noory resumed the broadcast you'ld be rest assured the
public agrees with it.

>Now, if we can only get rid of the childish snipes and weak
>attempts at character assassination we'd all be doing the public
>a better service and providing a series of ethics and standards
>that a field like this must have.

Hello Greg, Royce and Greg again:

I heard that same broadcast, driving home from work.

I have to be a little less hopeful in this matter, and I don't
much like it this time.

The feeling I got, was that George Noory was hoping for
something that would put the radio audience on the edge of their
seats, and was disappointed when the perp all but clammed up.

I did not see this as a conversion of Noory to some sort of
allegiance to the 'truth', so much as sheer exasperation that
the BS was unevenly shared.

I don't blame Noory for dumping the huckster, he simply didn't
play by the rules. Don't forget the main rule:  Knock up the
ratings or you're outta here.

This shaman refused to tell us when the End of the World was
scheduled. That's what pissed Noory off; not some new devotion
to high standards of radio journalism.

Anyone who relies on late night radio for the 'truth' about UFOs
or other controversial matters gets exactly what they deserve.


Best wishes

- Larry Hatch









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                 Re: 'The Truth' According To Greer - Hatch

From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 07:26:25 -0800
Fwd Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 13:11:54 -0500
Subject: Re: 'The Truth' According To Greer - Hatch


>From: Colin Stevenson <colsweb.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 22:41:20 -0000
>Subject: Re: 'The Truth' According To Greer

>>From: Jan Aldrich <project1947.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 11:35:40 -0500
>>Subject: Re: 'The Truth' According To Greer

>><LOL>Ah, yes, a machine that generates more energy than is put
>>nto it. How wonderful! Violates the Law of the Conservation of
>>Energy. Why the inventor should have the Noble Price locked up.

>>Scam-alert. Bull butter alert.

>>If Greer isn't careful, Otis T. Carr's relatives might sue him
>>for infringement of copyrights and pattens.

>Please explain to me why

<snip>

Dear Colin:

To answer your questions properly would require a message too
long for this List to endure.

Simply stated, I suggest that you take a course in elementary
physics. Until I did so, I also sounded like an idiot.

>Please explain to me why Coal, Wood burning, Oil, Nuclear
>generators, Wind energy, flowing water energy, Hydro dams, do
>not violate the laws quoted?

In every case above, _useful_ energy in exceeds energy out. Its
a matter of Entropy, a concept dullards seldom study.

>Have you ever calculated the amount of energy to produce diesel
>compared to the amount of energy it gives when used?

Do you mean the energy needed to pump it out of the ground?
That's minimal. Now find a way to produce NEW diesel that
exceeds the energy stored or given back.

I laughed at your first post, thinking you were joking.

Col, I could go on, but I have this really neat bridge for sale.

Cough up $600 and I will provide further details. This will
require a non-disclosure agreement however, as the bridge is
being earthquake retrofitted, and the Nigerian government might
abscond with the funds.


Best wishes

- Larry Hatch









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   Mar > Mar 20

             Re: Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices? - Hatch

From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 07:30:39 -0800
Fwd Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 13:13:36 -0500
Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices? - Hatch


>From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 17:51:51 -0700
>Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices?

>>From: Stuart Miller <Stuart.Miller4.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 17:34:56 -0000
>>Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices?

>>>From: Barry Taylor <stingray.nul>
>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 18:21:04 +1100
>>>Subject: Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices?

>>>I have just uploaded an article on my UFO web site titled...
>>>"Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices?"

>>>www.theozfactor.cjb.net/hoax_05.htm

>>>I think you will find it an interesting read.

><snip>

>>Second point, you talk about these hoax lights flickering. As
>>I recall, the Phoenix lights didn't flicker. The hoax lights you
>>describe would generate illumination. The bizarre thing about
>>the phenomena that people saw was that the lights on the
>>translucent object up there did not throw out illumination at
>>all and their spectral make up was one unknown to mankind,
>>according to Dilettoso.

>Oh, my lord, are people still quoting Dilettoso?

Hi Jim:

It's worse than that.

People are still reporting nite lites.


- Larry Hatch








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             Re: Jerry Black To Polygraph Bruce Maccabee - Hatch

From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 08:01:33 -0800
Fwd Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 13:22:10 -0500
Subject: Re: Jerry Black To Polygraph Bruce Maccabee - Hatch


>From: Robert Frola <ufologist.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 11:11:25 +1000
>Subject: Re: Jerry Black To Polygraph Bruce Maccabee

>>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 10:57:42 -0500
>>Subject: Re: Jerry Black To Polygraph Bruce Maccabee

>>>From: Kenny Young <ufo.nul>
>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 02:39:58 -0500
>>>Subject: Jerry Black To Polygraph Bruce Maccabee

>>>Jerry Black called earlier yesterday to inform me of his
>>>appreciation of Bruce Maccabee for accepting his invitation to
>>>take a lie detector test and that his search is now underway for
>>>a polygraph examiner local to the Baltimore area. He said that
>>>he will be responding to other UFO UpDates List comments, on his
>>>own, in separate messages.

>>>The acceptance of Black's invitation is a positive gesture by
>>>Bruce Maccabee to answer one of his critics. Will be looking
>>>forward to watching things happen.

>>I gather, from the generally unenthusiastic response on this
>>List, that few people will be sitting on the edge of their seats
>>waiting for the results.

>Bruce, my opinion, for what its worth, that its a bad idea and
>proves nothing. Your reputation stands alone. Your research
>unchallenged and solid. You don't need to entertain the
>skeptics.


>Robert Frola
>EDITOR
>The Australasian Ufologist Magazine

Hello Bruce and others:

I stayed out of this fray because I had nothing factual,
anything of substance to contribute to the matter.

All I can say is that every impression I have of Bruce Maccabee
(however he mis-spells it) is one of complete honesty.

I think it is a mistake to submit to any tests set up by anyone
who presents himself the say Black does.

Like Jerry Clark and others, I have real doubts about the Gulf
Breeze series, and of course those are entirely beside the
point.

The point is (as I see it) that we have Mr. Black crawling out
of the woodwork, almost on schedule, with Bruce M [however he
spells it] as the siiiiingle target.

One might ask what else Jerry Black has done for Ufology, but
that's too easy, a cheap shot. After researching UFOs for almost
20 years now, the _only_ reference I have for Jerry Black is/are
his complaints about Bruce Mackabee

Other than Gulf Breeze, where honest opinions differ, my worst
complaint about BM is that his name is too easy to spell rong.
My impressions of Mr. Black are decidedly sorrier.


Best wishes

- Larry Hatch

PS: I can still spell a certain Polish name, a high-school chum
named Tom Walczykowski. There is a sort of poetry to Polish
names, None of them rhyme with Stalin or Hitler.

If your name is Tom Walczykowski, please write
offlist. -LH

"The trouble with a kitten is exactly that ..
 Eventually it becomes a cat."

- Ogden Nash









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   Mar > Mar 20

               Re: 'The Mythologist' AKA Armen Victorian/Henry

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 11:05:50 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 13:24:02 -0500
Subject: Re: 'The Mythologist' AKA Armen Victorian/Henry


>Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 17:55:02 -0500
>Subject: Re: 'The Mythologist' AKA Armen Victorian/Henry Azadehdel

Regarding Henry the "A", I wrote:

>I nailed him the first time he called me. I think he probably
>called me a second time, but I'm not sure. I think he called
>more than once or twice because I dd not offer him any
>particular help or information.

The last sentence should read, I _don't_ think he called more
than once or twice because I did not offer him any particular
help or information.








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                   Re: Evidence Of Life On Mars - Maccabee

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 11:05:12 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 13:25:38 -0500
Subject: Re: Evidence Of Life On Mars - Maccabee


>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
>To:  ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 12:28:52 -0400
>Subject: Re: Evidence Of Life On Mars

>>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 20:04:55 -0500
>>Subject: Evidence Of Life On Mars

>>Source: Space.Com
>>http://space.com/missionlaunches/mars_blueberries_040317.html
>>17 March 2004

>>Mystery Spheres on Mars Finally Identified
>>By Leonard David
>>space.com

><snip>

>It's one thing for NASA/JPL to use the scientific method and
>caution when evaluating these anomalies but they should at least
>address the whole of the anomaly, not tentatively propose a half
>solution then drop it and move on. And I'm betting that school's
>not out in any event.

>NASA/JPL isn't the only authority in this area.


NASA appears to be borrowing from Stan Friedman's
recommendations for debunkers:

Don't tell the public what they don't already know.








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                Re: Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices? -

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 11:35:51 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 13:26:47 -0500
Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices? -


>From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 15:44:54 EST
>Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices?

>>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 11:31:40 -0500
>>Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices?

>>>From: Barry Taylor <stingray.nul>
>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 18:21:04 +1100
>>>Subject: Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices?

>>>I have just uploaded an article on my UFO web site titled...
>>>"Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices?"


>Hopefully someone will brave the storm and get everyone who was
t>here that night to write up what they saw and experienced and
>put it all together.

>Can't beat that in a court of law :)
<

The closest to come to that is the new book by Dr. Lynn Kitai,
available on Amazon and elsewhere.








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             Re: Jerry Black To Polygraph Bruce Maccabee - Young

From: Kenny Young <ufo.nul>
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 11:57:14 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 13:29:06 -0500
Subject: Re: Jerry Black To Polygraph Bruce Maccabee - Young


>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 13:18:24 -0600
>Subject: Re: Jerry Black To Polygraph Bruce Maccabee

>I have a suggestion. If Bruce Maccabee takes a polygraph test,
>Jerry Black agrees to take a psychiatric test.


Jerome, List;

Who was it that had something to say about attacking the
messenger, not the data....?  Why is there such a perception
that this cute little quote applies only one way?

Anyhow, just a quick note here to inform that Jerry Black has
agreed to Wendy Connors' earlier invitation for a psychiatric
test (see her March 16th message).

Wendy's very serious comments (which I thought to be weird and
mean-spirited) were taken by Jerry B. with good humor. He will
post to the List about his full acceptance very soon, and he
will work out the financial arrangement and other details with
Wendy and/or Jerome very shortly (I excpect them to balk, let's
see if I am wrong).

I think the only conditions that he mentions would require the
psychologist Wendy (or Jerry C.?) identifies for the testing
should be fairly local to the Cincinnati area. So rest assured,
it will happen.


Take care,

Kenny Young
--
UFO Research
http://home.fuse.net/ufo








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                     Re: A Steven Greer Response - Hatch

From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 09:06:34 -0800
Fwd Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 13:32:13 -0500
Subject: Re: A Steven Greer Response - Hatch


>From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>To: <- UFO UpDates Subscribers ->
>Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 10:16:17 -0500
>Subject: UFO UpDate: A Steven Greer Response

<snip>

To all concerned:

I must protest all the abba hominy grits attacks on my farm
and/or lemon tree, stinky garage etc.

The Larry Hatch UFO Hootenanny, scheduled for next month, is
necessarily a private affair. In fact, I am the only one invited
or expected.

Ridiculous and unfounded speculation that I will fall asleep at
the pulpit are so scurrilous that none of my non-disclosure
attendees will attest to same.

The refreshments will be Dutch, German or possibly Belgian (beer
markets permitting) and I am the only high priest attending.

Tickets are $6000 each, (apologies for earlier mis-quotes) and
all major credit cards will be accepted, but only if you use
Larry Hatch's credit card and look equally stupid [burp!]


Best wishes

- Larry Hatch

PS: Thanks EBK.








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               Re: 'The Truth' According To Greer - Stevenson

From: Colin Stevenson <colsweb.nul>
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 17:04:58 -0000
Fwd Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 13:39:30 -0500
Subject: Re: 'The Truth' According To Greer - Stevenson


>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
>To:  ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 04:03:31 -0800
>Subject: Re: 'The Truth' According To Greer

>>From: Colin Stevenson <colsweb.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 17:43:04 -0000
>>Subject: Re: 'The Truth' According To Greer

>><snip>

>>It could be worth going if he has one or more of these there;

>>http://befreetech.com/techpage.htm

>>Just to see if it actually is what he 'dropped' although its a
>>little larger than he claimed.

>>Credit where credit is due for what he may have started. Free
>>electricity and 20 Kilowatts of it.

>Hi Col:


><ROFLMOL> [burp]

>- Larry Hatch


Hi Larry, Listers

In reply to Larry's post you might like to read this

http://www.dsto.defence.gov.au/corporate/publicity/ads/v8n2/page2.html

which explains why Larry and most ETs are apparently drunk and
there is no shortage of Free Energy demonstrated on;

http://www.megababy.com/drunk_gif.htm


Have a good weekend :-)


Col








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                Re: Jerry Black To Polygraph Bruce Maccabee -

From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais.nul>
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 18:24:13 +0100
Fwd Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 13:40:52 -0500
Subject: Re: Jerry Black To Polygraph Bruce Maccabee -


>From: Kenny Young <ufo.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 02:39:58 -0500
>Subject: Jerry Black To Polygraph Bruce Maccabee

>Jerry Black called earlier yesterday to inform me of his
>appreciation of Bruce Maccabee for accepting his invitation to
>take a lie detector test and that his search is now underway for
>a polygraph examiner local to the Baltimore area. He said that
>he will be responding to other UFO UpDates List comments, on his
>own, in separate messages.

>The acceptance of Black's invitation is a positive gesture by
>Bruce Maccabee to answer one of his critics. Will be looking
>forward to watching things happen.

To Kenny Young  and All,

I don't think that Bruce Maccabee needed to accept that at all,
but since he has the elegance to do it, Jerry Black should take
it too, right after him, it seems to me.

Under control by independant witnesses.

Anyway, it will just prove nothing.

I agree with Joachim Koch that this Mr Black should be
challenged. Could anyone give us some information about who he
is?


Gildas Bourdais








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                         Re: JPL's Mars UFO - Ledger

From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 14:12:21 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 13:43:29 -0500
Subject: Re: JPL's Mars UFO - Ledger


>From: Aaron LeClair <force.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 23:32:54 -0500
>Subject: Re: JPL's Mars UFO

>>From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 09:34:05 -0600
>>Subject: Re: JPL's Mars UFO

>>>From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul>
>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 14:54:23 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
>>>Subject: Re: JPL's Mars UFO

>>>Today's BBC news story on JPL's Mars UFO that was written by
>>>Dr. David Whitehouse agrees with us that this unexplainable
>>>streak in the Martian sky is a "UFO" (their term)!

>>>http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/3520636.stm

>>Couple of things.

>>No, it doesn't look like a meteor streak, because it doesn't
>>have that typical tapering you see on almost all meteor photos.
>>Unless the meteor is going r-e-a-l s-l-o-w. It's also oddly
>>irregular.

>>Of course, you might expect some change in apparent brightness
>>as it goes across the sky in a thicker atmosphere, like on
>>Earth. But with such a thin atmosphere on Mars, the light trace
>>would probably be a lot more regular. That might count against
>>it being something high in orbit, like a moon (although if it's
>>a rotating satellite the brightness could possibly change).

>>Third, doesn't it look a little bit like that UFO Tim Edwards
>>filmed in Colorado a few years back? I'm not sayin' anything,
>>I'm just sayin'...

>Just had a look at a blow up of the picture, and that photo
>does look like Tim Edwards UFO. Not sure if it was doctored or
>not

>Later I might try and get some images and blow them up to
>see if I get the same thing.


Looks like a capsule-shaped - that's a bit odd - object followed
by a corkscrew type shockwave. Bolide perhaps at a very low
level?


Don Ledger







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                Re: Jerry Black To Polygraph Bruce Maccabee -

From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul>
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 12:17:45 -0600
Fwd Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 13:45:33 -0500
Subject: Re: Jerry Black To Polygraph Bruce Maccabee -


>From: John Rimmer <jrimmer.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 20:25:02 +0000
>Subject: Re: Jerry Black To Polygraph Bruce Maccabee

>>From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 10:08:45 -0600
>>Subject: Re: Jerry Black To Polygraph Bruce Maccabee

<snip>

>>Dr. Maccabee! You don't need to do this! It's not valid; it's
>>not science; it proves _nothing_! You've a reputation to stand
>>on! Stand on it!

>Blimey! What's going on here? I, a cursed pelicanist and
>skeptibunker, entirely agree with Alfred Lehmberg!

>Polygraph tests are just as he describes: indicative of guilt,
>and never proof on innocence. They are, completely phoney
>science.

Great suffering and most barragrugous ZOT, but no one is more
revolted than myself, sir.

Lehmberg.nul

EXPLORE "AlienViewGroup" at its HostPros URL.
http://www.alienview.net


JOHN FORD RESTORATION FUND -- John will be released eventually.
He'll need a tax free cash stake to get on his feet. Let's put
one together for him; the bigger it is -- the more attention he
gets. It could have been you. E-mail for detail. $450.00 pledged
-- $200.00 collected!

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see
from afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, scourged by
the scabrously specious scurrilous.








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   Mar > Mar 20

                 Aliens out there? Please Come To The Rescue

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 04:54:39 -0800
Fwd Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 13:48:11 -0500
Subject: Aliens out there? Please Come To The Rescue



Source: The Scotsman

http://news.scotsman.com/opinion.cfm?id=323022004

Sat 20 Mar 2004


Aliens out there? Please come to the rescue
by
Albert Morris

In the days when the equivalent of 3:50 could provide a high tea,
a night at the cinema for two and a packet of premier cru wine
gums, I occasionally took girlfriends to Edinburgh�s Odeon cinema
which had an auditorium ceiling that indicated, decoratively but
inaccurately, the starlit heavens.

That was no barrier to me. I would point out what I claimed were
the Great Bear, Orion�s Belt, Pegasus and the Pleiades. "Gosh,
Albert, you must know just about everything," said one lass, an
assertion I did not deny.

From my early, children�s matinee, cinema-going days when,
scrutinising the Moon, I could work out where Wanda, the
Venusian witch queen met the crab men from Mars, to the present
pictures of the Red Planet, a study of which has familiarised me
with practically every revealed pebble, I have been an ardent
space-watcher.

The universe has, however, disappointed me. I have seen awesome
pictures of Saturn and Jupiter, the tortured, twisted or frozen
surfaces of planetary satellites, astonishing Hubble telescope
photographs of colourful chaos, and I know that the star-
powdered heavens are pulsating with deaths and births of
galaxies, are strewn with asteroid belts, radiation fields and
black holes, but I want some intelligent-life contact because
there is not too much on Earth.

From HG Wells�s novel, The War of the Worlds, fiction and films
have often postulated the inherent malevolence of Earth visitors
shaped like hyperactive tapioca puddings trying to ingest the
planet, pods seeding human likenesses and others, exhibiting
all-too-human characteristics, merely attempting to blast the
planet into jigsaw puzzle fragments.

A fear that extraterrestrial beings may not like us or are
waiting to take us over, has helped to fuel interest in so-called
flying saucers.

Unidentified flying object sightings began in the United States
in 1947, but from 7 January, 1948, when a US National Guard
pilot, Captain Thomas F Mantell, chasing an apparently metallic,
circular object over Kentucky, radioed, "It�s huge. It�s ..."
before his plane crashed, UFOs in atomic-age skies began to be
reported worldwide.

UFOs have resembled saucers, cigars, tea cosies, large, flashing
lights, chamberpots and psychological test Rorschach blots. Most
have been identified as bright planets, stars, aircraft, unusual
cloud formations or balloons, but some have not been explained
and the possibility remains that nightmarish, bug-eyed creatures
with fearfully-high IQs, possibly living on a diet of electrons,
which probably accounts for much of our radio static, have been
trying to discover how humans tick.

If so, they may be losing patience. Flying saucer spottings have
fallen so much that UFO Magazine, which has featured sightings,
abductions by aliens and close encounters, is to close. Two years
ago, the British Flying Saucer Bureau was shut after UFO
visitations and membership decreased.

That prompts the dismal question: have airborne aliens become so
disillusioned by what they see on this tortured planet that they
are going into hyper warp drive, adjusting their cosmic-ray
diffusers and heading for more congenial climes?

As a supporter of galactic amity, I still hope that, one day,
some outer space visitants will land on earth and stop the
inhabitants from tearing themselves and the planet to pieces The
fact that remedial aliens could resemble man-sized tadpoles with
limbs, would not disguise the fact that they could be new Labour
in political outlook and, therefore, virtual Tories. They would,
I am certain, expand and improve global public services, for the
many, not the few, and, in a very real sense, create a Swedish
welfare state version of Utopia.

Non-smokers, they would be caring and compassionate, devoted to
free health care, community arts, family planning, race
relations, further education and pensioners.

They would favour theatre workshops and social-inclusion
discussion and outreach groups. In religious matters, they would
initiate an ongoing and open-ended dialogue in the context of
the day and age.

Pie in the sky? I hope not. All I say is that this explosive
planet, with its imploding civilisation, needs urgent visionary
intervention. Don�t desert us, UFOs. Have a wine gum. If you
want one word from us, written in crop circles or otherwise, it
is, "help".








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             Re: Jerry Black To Polygraph Bruce Maccabee - Clark

From: Jerome Clark <jkclark.nul>
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 12:58:19 -0600
Fwd Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 15:28:41 -0500
Subject: Re: Jerry Black To Polygraph Bruce Maccabee - Clark


>From: Kenny Young <ufo.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 11:57:14 -0500
>Subject: Re: Jerry Black To Polygraph Bruce Maccabee

>>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 13:18:24 -0600
>>Subject: Re: Jerry Black To Polygraph Bruce Maccabee

>>I have a suggestion. If Bruce Maccabee takes a polygraph test,
>>Jerry Black agrees to take a psychiatric test.

>Who was it that had something to say about attacking the
>messenger, not the data....? Why is there such a perception
>that this cute little quote applies only one way?

I don't think you and Black are standing on exactly solid ground
when you write about "attacking the messenger, not the data,"
when you've made Bruce Maccabee, not his data, the issue. And in
any case, you guys have no "data", just a bunch of hearsay for
which no confirming evidence exists.

You guys beggar belief in your hypocrisy, self-righteousness,
vindictiveness, and personality-obsessed 'research'. From his
vantage point somewhere in hell, though, I'm sure Joe McCarthy
is smiling at you.


Jerry Clark








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                    Re: Evidence Of Life On Mars - Ledger

From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 14:58:22 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 15:30:16 -0500
Subject: Re: Evidence Of Life On Mars - Ledger


>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 11:05:12 -0500
>Subject: Re: Evidence Of Life On Mars

>>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
>>To:  ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 12:28:52 -0400
>>Subject: Re: Evidence Of Life On Mars

>>>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 20:04:55 -0500
>>>Subject: Evidence Of Life On Mars

>>>Source: Space.Com
>>>http://space.com/missionlaunches/mars_blueberries_040317.html
>>>17 March 2004

>>>Mystery Spheres on Mars Finally Identified
>>>By Leonard David
>>>space.com

>><snip>

>>It's one thing for NASA/JPL to use the scientific method and
>>caution when evaluating these anomalies but they should at least
>>address the whole of the anomaly, not tentatively propose a half
>>solution then drop it and move on. And I'm betting that school's
>>not out in any event.

>>NASA/JPL isn't the only authority in this area.

>NASA appears to be borrowing from Stan Friedman's
>recommendations for debunkers:

>Don't tell the public what they don't already know.


I'm betting the odds makers in Vegas [is Nick the Greek still
alive?] if they were taking bets among the scientific
persuasions applicable to Mars's topography, environment etc.,
would find the odds heavily in favor of water on mars and either
microbial life or possibly [very] primative simple celled
animals or plant life. It certainly would not surprise me if
this proved to be so.

If NASA/JPL is playing it close to their chests, why? What's in
it for them?


Don Ledger









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                Re: UFO Magazine Folds After Editor's Death -

From: John Rimmer <jrimmer.nul>
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 19:03:04 +0000
Fwd Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 15:31:16 -0500
Subject: Re: UFO Magazine Folds After Editor's Death -


>From: Roy Hale <roy.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 16:54:57 -0000
>Subject: Re: UFO Magazine Folds After Editor's Death

>>From: John Rimmer <jrimmer.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 20:55:17 +0000
>>Subject: Re: UFO Magazine Folds After Editor's Death

>>I can't answer from Joe McGonagle, but I wouldn't advocate
>>anyone subscribing to FSR, least of all any former readers of
>>(UK) UFO Magazine. Whatever you think about its contents, it was
>>a porfessionally produced piece of work, which gave its readers
>>what they wanted. They would be very disapponted by what FSR has
>>(had? I haven't seen it round lately) to offer.

>Isn't opinion a wonderful thing, you dislike FSR, but will
>obviously adore Magonia, never the twain shall meet.

Hardly surprising, Roy. In case it's missed you, I publish
Magonia so, yes, do tend to show a little affection towards it!


--
John Rimmer
Magonia Magazine
www.magonia.demon.co.uk/arc/00/newmag.htm








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   Mar > Mar 20

                    Re: Hats Off To George Noory! - Myers

From: Royce J. Myers III <ufowatchdog.nul>
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 11:14:20 -0800
Fwd Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 15:34:08 -0500
Subject: Re: Hats Off To George Noory! - Myers


>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 07:05:32 -0800
>Subject: Re: Hats Off To George Noory!

>>From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 17:53:09 EST
>>Subject: Re: Hats Off To George Noory!

>>>From: Royce J. Myers III <ufowatchdog.nul>
>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 10:48:09 -0800
>>>Subject: Re: Hats Off To George Noory!

>>>>From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
>>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>>Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 03:56:36 EST
>>>>Subject: Hats Off To George Noory!

>><snip>

>>>>If we're going to win this battle, it'll be up to you
>>>>professional scientists and researchers to do what you do best
>>>>and we in the media to provide the assistance necessary for you
>>>>all to present your conclusions like Mr. Bruce-Knapp does and
>>>>Jeff Rense and now George Noory.

>>>>I for one will be tuning in every night to C2C with the comfort
>>>>of knowing that George Noory has finally seen the light and is
>>>>brave enough to put his foot down.

>>>I've heard Noory in the past sound like he's had to bite his
>>>lip with a couple of guests, you can hear the frustration in the
>>>man from time to time. Perhaps he has had enough of the
>>>BS-factor and enough of fools making the rest of us look like
>>>fools with their utter garbage.

>>>Now the question is: Is this the beginning or the end of
>>>getting rid of the rubes? Hopefully, this isn't the end.....

>>I'm with you on that Royce.

>>Perhaps with a standard set by Noory last night it'll spread
>>far and wide and will let people know that we're only interested
>>in the goods not the soap sell.

>>If you'd heard the responses from the listeners last night
>after Noory resumed the broadcast you'ld be rest assured the
>public agrees with it.

>>Now, if we can only get rid of the childish snipes and weak
>>attempts at character assassination we'd all be doing the public
>>a better service and providing a series of ethics and standards
>>that a field like this must have.

>I heard that same broadcast, driving home from work.

>I have to be a little less hopeful in this matter, and I don't
>much like it this time.

>The feeling I got, was that George Noory was hoping for
>something that would put the radio audience on the edge of their
>seats, and was disappointed when the perp all but clammed up.

>I did not see this as a conversion of Noory to some sort of
>allegiance to the 'truth', so much as sheer exasperation that
>the BS was unevenly shared.

>I don't blame Noory for dumping the huckster, he simply didn't
>play by the rules. Don't forget the main rule: Knock up the
>ratings or you're outta here.

>This shaman refused to tell us when the End of the World was
>scheduled. That's what pissed Noory off; not some new devotion
>to high standards of radio journalism.

>Anyone who relies on late night radio for the 'truth' about UFOs
>or other controversial matters gets exactly what they deserve.


This is a first for C2C: Last night Noory announced that he had
actually engaged in, get this, checking out someone's claims -
 namely the claim of the two guests that they had visited the
last of the Fatima bunch.

Now, will C2C start checking out their other guests (i.e.:
Dames, Morton, et al) and call them on their bull? It'd be nice
to see, but I have to completely agree with Larry that the
optimism here on the List may be too much to hope for.....


Regards,

Royce J. Myers III
UFOWATCHDOG.COM
"Don't Trip On Your Open Mind"







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   Mar > Mar 21

                      Condon Report's Roy F. Craig Dies

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 12:20:00 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 12:20:00 -0500
Subject: Condon Report's Roy F. Craig Dies




Source: The Durango Herald - Colorado

http://durangoherald.com/asp-bin/article_generation.asp?article_type=news&articl
e_path=/news/04/news040321_1.htm

March 21, 2004

[More info & picture at site --ebk]


Chief UFO investigator Dies

By Patricia Miller
Herald Staff Writer

Roy F. Craig, an investigator who worked on the country's
largest, most systematic investigation of flying saucers, died
Thursday, March 18, 2004, at his La Boca Ranch, south of
Ignacio. He died after a struggle with cancer. He was 79.

Craig was chosen by the project's head, Edward Condon, to serve
as chief field investigator for The Colorado Project, the
official government search for scientific, verifiable evidence
for the existence of unidentified flying objects. He was co-
author of the three-volume Condon report.

Although the report debunked mysteries from outer space, Dr.
Craig's position on UFOs as expressed to the Herald last October
was, "I love them."

"Reports of UFOs have changed popular culture so people are
accepting the probable fact that there are intelligences
elsewhere," he said. "It's got people out of the rut of thinking
the whole universe was created for man."

Years later, he wrote about his experiences in his book UFOS: An
Insider's View of the Official Quest for Evidence (University of
North Texas Press). He donated nine boxes of his papers and
research findings to the Science Fiction and Fantasy Research
Collection at Texas A&M University's Cushing Memorial Library.

He chose the Texas university rather than Fort Lewis College
because the librarian there asked him and because they promised
to keep his papers preserved in a climate-controlled building,
properly catalogued and accessible.

In 2001, Craig's biography was included in A.M. Marquis's Who's
Who in the World, a compilation of leading scientists.

Craig was born on May 10,1924, on the land that his parents,
Anna and Philip Craig, homesteaded on the Florida Mesa. He
graduated from Durango High School, then attended Fort Lewis
College at the old campus at Hesperus.

His college studies were interrupted by military service in the
U.S. Army during World War II.

After his discharge, Craig attended Colorado State University,
the University of Colorado and the California Institute of
Technology before receiving a doctorate in physical chemistry
from Iowa State University.

During his professional career, Craig worked for Rocky Flats in
Boulder, taught physical science at the University of Colorado
and helped set up the Four Corners Research Institute, which
offered environmental and other scientific investigation
services. His teaching career including visiting professorships
at the University of Hawaii and at Ponape, an island in the
South Pacific.

Craig was a community-minded citizen and a vigilant letter
writer. The Herald archive alone contains 44 letters from him
since 1995. Land use was a particular concern of his and he once
cautioned his neighbors not to get into a shooting war "and wipe
the Indians all out" over methane-gas ownership.

He told the Herald that he used to write even more letters to
the Boulder newspaper when he taught at the University of
Colorado. He was protesting the Vietnam War.

Opposition to the war was a position the former soldier arrived
at suddenly. Craig had been making nuclear weapons. He had a
staff of 18 and believed in deterrence: "If we make them, we
won't have to use them."

Then one night he went to hear an Army general speak. The
general said there was no reason they shouldn't use tactical
nuclear weapons to blow up bridges in Vietnam.

Soon after he heard this, Craig quit his job and started
teaching.

For the past 25 years, Craig has raised llamas on his ranch. He
also pastured buffalo for a neighbor and kept two peacocks. His
dining room was full of hundreds of peacock feathers last
October, which he said were his proof that God exists. He saw no
other explanation than God for something as beautiful as a
peacock feather.

Craig enjoyed weekly chess games with his friends, Chester
Anderson and Hal Mansfield. He traveled frequently to Mexico and
the Caribbean and toured South and Central America. A memorable
trip was a monthlong journey around the world on a tour ship.

"He instilled in me an appreciation for the beauty of the
world," said his niece Gayle Voss Button. "He loved his life and
felt he was already in Heaven at his La Boca Ranch."

Craig is survived by his sisters: Carolyn Shryock of Kirtland,
N. M. and Dorothy Voss McCormick of Durango; his sisters-in-law
Joyce Craig and Helen Craig, both of Durango; and many nieces
and nephews.

A memorial service will be held at 2 p.m. Sunday, April 25, at
La Boca Ranch.

Memorial contributions may be made to the Craig-Dyer Scholarship
Fund, Fort Lewis College, 1000 Rim Drive, Durango 81301 or
Hospice of Mercy, 3801 Main Ave., Durango 81301.







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             Re: UFO Magazine Folds After Editor's Death - Burns

From: Max Burns <max.burns.nul>
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 20:56:10 -0000
Fwd Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 13:48:25 -0500
Subject: Re: UFO Magazine Folds After Editor's Death - Burns


>From: John Rimmer <jrimmer.nul>
>Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 19:03:04 +0000
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Subject: Re: UFO Magazine Folds After Editor's Death

>>From: Roy Hale <roy.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 16:54:57 -0000
>>Subject: Re: UFO Magazine Folds After Editor's Death

>>>From: John Rimmer <jrimmer.nul>
>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 20:55:17 +0000
>>>Subject: Re: UFO Magazine Folds After Editor's Death

>>>I can't answer from Joe McGonagle, but I wouldn't advocate
>>>anyone subscribing to FSR, least of all any former readers of
>>>(UK) UFO Magazine. Whatever you think about its contents, it was
>>>a porfessionally produced piece of work, which gave its readers
>>>what they wanted. They would be very disapponted by what FSR has
>>>(had? I haven't seen it round lately) to offer.

>>Isn't opinion a wonderful thing, you dislike FSR, but will
>>obviously adore Magonia, never the twain shall meet.

>Hardly surprising, Roy. In case it's missed you, I publish
>Magonia so, yes, do tend to show a little affection towards it!

Roy, John, EBK and Listers,

I have sat and watched over the last couple of weeks. All I can
see is various individuals positioning themselves with their
various loyalities towards favoured publications.

Obviously a gap has now arisen in the ufological media frenzy.
Individuals are lining themselves up alongside publications
that could be friendly to each other's aims.

Perhaps a list of alternate publications, for the benifit mostly
of UK ufological partners and naturally overseas readers of UK
media, concerning ufological and the paranormal matters should
be posted.

I think the true battle is about to commence, for the Pro-ETH,
and the Sceptical terrorists, whose version of events is
going to be prominent in the printed media.


May the games begin

Max









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   Mar > Mar 21

               Re: 'The Truth' According To Greer - Stevenson

From: Colin Stevenson <colsweb.nul>
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 21:13:06 -0000
Fwd Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 20:13:36 -0500
Subject: Re: 'The Truth' According To Greer - Stevenson


>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 07:26:25 -0800
>Subject: Re: 'The Truth' According To Greer

>>From: Colin Stevenson <colsweb.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 22:41:20 -0000
>>Subject: Re: 'The Truth' According To Greer

>>>From: Jan Aldrich <project1947.nul>
>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 11:35:40 -0500
>>>Subject: Re: 'The Truth' According To Greer

>>><LOL>Ah, yes, a machine that generates more energy than is put
>>>nto it. How wonderful! Violates the Law of the Conservation of
>>>Energy. Why the inventor should have the Noble Price locked up.

>>>Scam-alert. Bull butter alert.

>>>If Greer isn't careful, Otis T. Carr's relatives might sue him
>>>for infringement of copyrights and pattens.

>>Please explain to me why

><snip>

>To answer your questions properly would require a message too
>long for this List to endure.

>Simply stated, I suggest that you take a course in elementary
>physics. Until I did so, I also sounded like an idiot.

>>Please explain to me why Coal, Wood burning, Oil, Nuclear
>>generators, Wind energy, flowing water energy, Hydro dams, do
>>not violate the laws quoted?

>In every case above, _useful_ energy in exceeds energy out. Its
>a matter of Entropy, a concept dullards seldom study.

That is correct, but see below.

>>Have you ever calculated the amount of energy to produce diesel
>>compared to the amount of energy it gives when used?

>Do you mean the energy needed to pump it out of the ground?
>That's minimal. Now find a way to produce NEW diesel that
>exceeds the energy stored or given back.

Yes. The energy used to extract it is less than when it is used
and that is my point here in that there is a vast latent energy
held in quite a few ways which is not being tapped into at all
or used much in any way.

>I laughed at your first post, thinking you were joking.

No. Not at all. I have seen this Free Energy of one type being
released with great good to the environment and used for heating
and/or electricity production. It can also be beneficial in
prolonging Human life but full details of the latter are not yet
fully firmed up therefore use of the thing at present is on hold
until testing is done to see whether long term use is non
harmful or otherwise.

>Col, I could go on, but I have this really neat bridge for sale.

>Cough up $600 and I will provide further details. This will
>require a non-disclosure agreement however, as the bridge is
>being earthquake retrofitted, and the Nigerian government might
>abscond with the funds.

Do folk need bridges these days? I thought everyone fly's
instead :-)


Col








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                Re: Jerry Black To Polygraph Bruce Maccabee -

From: John Harney <magonia.nul>
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 21:21:50 -0000
Fwd Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 20:15:02 -0500
Subject: Re: Jerry Black To Polygraph Bruce Maccabee -


>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 21:12:04 +0000
>Subject: Re: Jerry Black To Polygraph Bruce Maccabee

>>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 10:57:42 -0500
>>Subject: Re: Jerry Black To Polygraph Bruce Maccabee

>>I gather, from the generally unenthusiastic response on this
>>List, that few people will be sitting on the edge of their seats
>>waiting for the results.

>The least you should have done was insist that Jerry Black also
>agree to take a polygraph test on the question of what real
>basis he has for making the allegations in the first place.

Those who have taken sides on this controversy are hardly likely
to change their minds as the result of a polygraph test. Look
what happened in the Travis Walton abduction case, in which
Jerry Black was also involved in arranging polygraph tests.

Those who believed Walton said that Cy Gilson's test was valid,
as he said that Walton was telling the truth, but Klass
discovered that John McCarthy had earlier tested Walton and
found his story to be false. The sceptics accepted McCarthy's
results and rejected Gilson's.

Thus it seems that a polygraph test has been correctly performed
if it tells you what you are hoping to hear.

There is a good summary of the Walton case, including details
about the polygraph tests, including a discussion about the
validity of this technique, at:

http://anw.com/fire/GPriceReport.htm

This is generally favourable to the principle of the lie
detector, but I understand that some American states do not
accept evidence obtained in this way in court. Also, such
evidence is not accepted in British courts.

In view of the lack of a general consensus as to the validity of
polygraph testing, perhaps those concerned might consider that
the result of the proposed test, whatever it might be, is
unlikely to be taken seriously by many of those who hear about
it.


John Harney








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   Mar > Mar 21

             Re: Jerry Black To Polygraph Bruce Maccabee - Young

From: Kenny Young <ufo.nul>
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 16:52:29 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 20:16:30 -0500
Subject: Re: Jerry Black To Polygraph Bruce Maccabee - Young


>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 12:58:19 -0600
>Subject: Re: Jerry Black To Polygraph Bruce Maccabee

>You guys beggar belief in your hypocrisy, self-righteousness,
>vindictiveness, and personality-obsessed 'research'. From his
>vantage point somewhere in hell, though, I'm sure Joe McCarthy
>is smiling at you.

Jerry;

It's good to know that some of the folks in hell can tune into
UFO UpDates. I'll bet ol' Joe McCarthy & others are showing
their pearly whites now because there's more to read in Hell's
Library than just Anne Coulter's "Treason" or Ed Walters "Gulf
Breeze UFO Sightings."


 -- ky








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   Mar > Mar 21

             Re: Jerry Black To Polygraph Bruce Maccabee - Hatch

From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 14:50:57 -0800
Fwd Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 20:18:48 -0500
Subject: Re: Jerry Black To Polygraph Bruce Maccabee - Hatch


>From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 18:24:13 +0100
>Subject: Re: Jerry Black To Polygraph Bruce Maccabee

>>From: Kenny Young <ufo.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 02:39:58 -0500
>>Subject: Jerry Black To Polygraph Bruce Maccabee

>>Jerry Black called earlier yesterday to inform me of his
>>appreciation of Bruce Maccabee for accepting his invitation to
>>take a lie detector test and that his search is now underway for
>>a polygraph examiner local to the Baltimore area. He said that
>>he will be responding to other UFO UpDates List comments, on his
>>own, in separate messages.

>>The acceptance of Black's invitation is a positive gesture by
>>Bruce Maccabee to answer one of his critics. Will be looking
>>forward to watching things happen.

>To Kenny Young  and All,

>I don't think that Bruce Maccabee needed to accept that at all,
>but since he has the elegance to do it, Jerry Black should take
>it too, right after him, it seems to me.

>Under control by independant witnesses.

>Anyway, it will just prove nothing.

>I agree with Joachim Koch that this Mr Black should be
>challenged. Could anyone give us some information about who he
>is?


Dear Gildas:

Forgive my extremely pOOvre (poor) understanding of these highly
exciting matters.

For the last 8 or 10 hours or so, I was treated to the never-
ending renditions of electrical buzzers, lights, flashers, and
all associated whukku until my shift simply ended.

I must go to bed now.


-LH








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   Mar > Mar 21

             Re: UFO Magazine Folds After Editor's Death - Hale

From: Roy Hale <roy.nul>
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 23:03:24 -0000
Fwd Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 20:20:53 -0500
Subject: Re: UFO Magazine Folds After Editor's Death - Hale


Tonight I received a  response to Joe McGonagle's answer,
from a friend of FSR, I post the response below.

-----

Thank you Joe McGonagle, for being so candid in your reply.

Perhaps a few more words to jog your memory?

It seems your initial discomfort with FSR is far more serious
than you first thought. I recall a similar dramatic conversion
on the road to Damascus or perhaps it was on the Motorway? Do we
have an M15 motorway?

I don't believe that all of the blame can be placed on the
advent of the InterNet, this has just accelerated the effect. It
is just that some people's minds have been so open that their
brains have fallen out! The InterNet is simply a convenient
platform for some people who would never be considered viable by
the mainstream media to air their views and gain support from
gullible, or equally "open minded" people. The same effect can
be found in the printed media before the internet was widely
available, for example, Flying Saucer Review.

-----

Roy








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                Re: Jerry Black To Polygraph Bruce Maccabee -

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 18:05:01 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 20:23:43 -0500
Subject: Re: Jerry Black To Polygraph Bruce Maccabee -


>From: John Rimmer <jrimmer.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 20:25:02 +0000
>Subject: Re: Jerry Black To Polygraph Bruce Maccabee

>>From: Alfred Lehmberg <Lehmberg.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 10:08:45 -0600
>>Subject: Re: Jerry Black To Polygraph Bruce Maccabee

>>What? This is the stupidest thing I've ever heard! Polygraphs
>>are a shim-sham, a crack-pot machine, and are easily defeated.
>>So says Dr. Philip Zimbardo of Stanford and a couple of other
>>lettered researchers from other universities on an up-dated
>>college telecourse I saw just Tuesday.

>>Polygraphs are a lie in the fog, completely subjective, and are
>>indicative (to the powerful masses) of likely guilt... and only
>>_possible_ innocence. They _only_ do harm and _never_ do any
>>lasting good, and they are desired only by persons who would
>>likely _never_ be strapped to the fallacious machines
>>themselves...

>>Dr. Maccabee! You don't need to do this! It's not valid; it's
>>not science; it proves _nothing_! You've a reputation to stand
>>on! Stand on it!

>Blimey! What's going on here? I, a cursed pelicanist and
>skeptibunker, entirely agree with Alfred Lehmberg!

>Polygraph tests are just as he describes: indicative of guilt,
>and never proof on innocence. They are, completely phoney
>science.

>Bruce Maccabee has made a very foolish decision, and once he has
>made it any - perfectly rational - second thoughts will be seen
>as an admission of guilt!>

>Bad move.

Good advice even though from an avowed pelicanist! However,I am
assuming (perhaps this is rash!) that Mr. Black is an honourable
man and he will treat this as he treated the Walton case: after
Walton et al passed Jerry's prescribed tests he stated that, in
his opinion, they were telling the truth. I haven't seen any
commentary against the Walton case from Mr. Black for about 10
years now. Therefore, assuming he goes through with this and I
pass I assume he will _get_off_my_back_.

As Jerry Clark has wisely pointed out, I could be wrong in my
assessment of the Walters sightings. (There is little discussion
about the numerous confirmatory sightings except the offhand
comment that other witnesses were all swayed by Ed.. somehow....
a lot of weak mnded individuals in Gulf Breeze?. I don't think
so.)

Perhaps my analysis is fatally flawed, etc. In this case I would
be supporting Ed Walters as a result of incorrect "thinking."
But that would have **nothing** to do with money being passed
around to "buy" the results of the analysis.

The mere fact that Mr. Black is now appealing to "lie detection"
and pointedly ignoring rational analysis (he would hate to bore
everyone with another discussion of the experimental evidence!)
shows that he is grasping at straws to "prove" what he "knows in
his heart" is true (that I joined with or "conspired with" Ed
and probably MUFON to produce a moneymaking hoax UFO case).

This is pelican excrement of the first order.

I suppose that if he goes through with this and I pass he will
want to test Salisberry, Lyons, Andrus, Shuessler, Flannigan,
Watson, etc., hoping to get the answer he wants (Odd, isn't it,
that the only person who _has_ been tested and has already
passed is Ed!!! Compare this with the Walton case where he
failed to pass his first test and there arose a controversy that
lasted for years!)








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   Mar > Mar 21

                Re: Jerry Black To Polygraph Bruce Maccabee -

From: Edward Gehrman <egehrman.nul>
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 15:44:13 -0800 (PST)
Fwd Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 20:26:32 -0500
Subject: Re: Jerry Black To Polygraph Bruce Maccabee -


>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 12:58:19 -0600
>Subject: Re: Jerry Black To Polygraph Bruce Maccabee

>>From: Kenny Young <ufo.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 11:57:14 -0500
>>Subject: Re: Jerry Black To Polygraph Bruce Maccabee
>
>>>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark.nul>
>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 13:18:24 -0600
>>>Subject: Re: Jerry Black To Polygraph Bruce Maccabee
>
>>>I have a suggestion. If Bruce Maccabee takes a polygraph test,
>>>Jerry Black agrees to take a psychiatric test.
>
>>Who was it that had something to say about attacking the
>>messenger, not the data....? Why is there such a perception
>>that this cute little quote applies only one way?
>
>I don't think you and Black are standing on exactly solid ground
>when you write about "attacking the messenger, not the data,"
>when you've made Bruce Maccabee, not his data, the issue. And in
>any case, you guys have no "data", just a bunch of hearsay for
>which no confirming evidence exists.
>
>You guys beggar belief in your hypocrisy, self-righteousness,
>vindictiveness, and personality-obsessed 'research'. From his
>vantage point somewhere in hell, though, I'm sure Joe McCarthy
>is smiling at you.


Jerry C, Kenny and All,

Bruce has taken the only course of action that makes sense.
Innocent folks shouldn't be apprehensive about taking a
polygraph or voice stress analysis. These tests are very
accurate. Just ask Richard Jewell! I happen to think Bruce's
interpretation of the Gulf Breeze photos is correct and Ed W is
not a fraud and is being truthful. But Bruce's polygraph will go
a long way toward settling this issue. I have a police officer
friend who swears by the polygraph. Where I live, all police
officers and sheriffs must pass polygraphs before being hired.
If it's good enough for the FBI, CIA, Navy intelligence, and
most local police agencies, then it should be good enough for
UFO investigators.

I wouldn't think of doing a serious interview without having it
analyzed by VSA. We need to use the meager tools that are
available to us and VSA and polygraph can be easily utilized.
Anyone who refuses a polygraph or VSA is suspect, to my way of
thinking.

Below is an example of how a polygraph can play a major role in
an investigation and how the report is structured and what Bruce
or anyone can expect.

Ed

-----

From "The Bombing of Judi Bari, New Evidence"

www.sonomacountyfreepress.com/judi_bari/who.html

The Peace and Freedom Party attempted to expel Sutley, using
Bari's "police-agent" accusations. Many folks on the left were
sympathetic to Bari's version of events and some came to believe
that Sutley was a government agent. This made his life
unnerving, and he became really worried about his reputation,
credibility and safety. Jan Tucker, a friend of Sutley's who
also happened to be a long time Peace and Freedom Party member
and a licensed private investigator, advised Sutley to take a
polygraph test. Tucker indicated that this would settle the
matter once and for all. Tucker made all the arrangements for
Sutley, who traveled to Los Angeles on December 14, 1994, and
took the examination at Guga & Associates.

Joseph Paolella, a licensed polygraph examiner, administered the
test. In his letter to Tucker informing him of the results,
Paolella gives the following information: "At your request Irv
Sutley was given a polygraph examination on 12/14/94 to
determine whether he had in fact been an informant against Earth
First! or Judi Bari, and whether he was involved in the bombing
of her car and whether he was solicited by Pam Davis to kill
Mike Sweeney."

Paolella goes on to explain his pre-testing of Sutley, what
tests were used and the type of equipment that was employed
and other dynamics of the whole procedure. After Sutley was
prepared, Mr. Paolella asked four questions.

1. Did you receive any payment from law enforcement agencies to
be an informant against Earth First! or Judi Bari? (Sutley's
response was "no.")

2. Were you solicited by Pam Davis to kill Bari's estranged
husband, Mike Sweeney? (Sutley's response was "yes.")

3. Did you write the "Argus" letter to the Ukiah police
epartment in 1989 or 1990? (Sutley's response was "no.")

4. Were you involved in any way with the bombing of Bari's ar on
5-24-90? (Sutley's response was "no.")

"After carefully reviewing the polygraph charts, it is the
opinion of the examiner that the subject told the truth during
the polygraph examination. Respectfully Submitted, Joseph
Paolella."

-----








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   Mar > Mar 21

                Re: 'The Truth' According To Greer - Stanford

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 18:47:10 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 20:28:45 -0500
Subject: Re: 'The Truth' According To Greer - Stanford


>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 14:30:58 -0800
>Subject: Re: 'The Truth' According To Greer

>>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 18:03:41 -0500
>>Subject: Re: 'The Truth' According To Greer

>>>Source: CSETI

>>>http://www.cseti.org/programs/bookdictation2004.htm

>>>THE TRUTH
>>>(THE POWER ELITES DON'T WANT YOU TO KNOW)

>>>You are invited to spend 5 days with Dr. Greer at his farm in
>>>Virginia to hear what he has learned after 14 years of
>>>investigations

>>>Start Date/Time: Sunday April 18, 2004 6 pm
>>>End Date/Time: Thursday, April 22, 2004 midnight

>>>Limited to 15 people, this unique event will be an oral
>>>presentation of the unvarnished truth. Designed to be the core
>>>of Dr. Greer's next book, at these presentations you will be
>>>privy to what really happens behind the scenes and to how the
>>>world's evolution has been hijacked for nearly a century by
>>>craven power interests.

><snip>

>>>+ Who has stolen the free energy technologies - and why

><snip>

>>>Fee: A minimum $600 donation to The Disclosure Project (more is
>>>appreciated).

><snip>

>>>+ We reserve the right to select the 15 people from the list of
>>>applicants.

>>>+ Everyone will be required to sign a Non-Disclosure Agreement.

>[!]

>>Astonishing! Let's recall that he requires, "A minimum $600
>>donation to The Disclosure Project (more is appreciated)."

>>Considering the fact that people shall have shelled out a
>>minimum of $600 each, you think he'd allow them the right to
>>freedom of speech! Even if it what Greer offers were free, you'd
>>still hope he would allow them the right to freedom of speech!

>>One could suspect - based on what I've heard of Greer from his
>>former friends - that he's actually afraid that if those who
>>were there were to tell what they were told by him, he might be
>>shown up as a charlatan and snake oil salesman. After all, he
>>claims to have repeatedly been aboard spacecraft with his space
>>friends, or so people who say they have wised up to Greer tell
>>me! But, those who know him and have talked to me say they don't
>>believe a word of his reportedly self-aggrandizing claims.

>>So, takers of his offer must fork out a donation of "a minimum
>$600 to the Disclosure Project" and sign a non-disclosure
>statement!

>>Shouldn't it be paid to the Non-Disclosure Project?!!! -
>>instead of to the Disclosure Project? :-o

>>And Greer's a doctor? Some might wonder whether medical
>>training could have enabled him to realize that there are people
>>out there with less brains than money.

>I'm astonished. Not so much by the minimum $600 each from the hand
>picked list of attendees, religious/mystical frauds often do that.

>And not so much by the non-disclosure agreement, certain kinds of
>religions even do that.

>I'm blown away by "claims to have repeatedly been aboard
>spacecraft with his space friends.."

>Are you sure you have that right, and can it be traced back to
>something he said? I'm completely blind-sided by this.

>If so, we have a first-class CONTACTEE on our hands! (Sorry for
>shouting, I meant to say _contactee_ )

>This is really really ripe. Please keep us posted.


Hi Larry,

I appreciate your interest. What I reported about Greer claiming
to have been aboard spacecraft with friendly space brothers is,
in my opinion, quite true. First let me point out that the CSETI
solicitation for attendees to buy into that $600 (or more)
admission event by Greer said:

"The event will be an informal gathering where Dr. Greer will
present his first hand accounts and personal experiences, dating
from childhood, regarding: ...+ What extraterrestrial contact is
really about..."

Doesn't seem to suggest what I said, because it apparently
promises that Greer will reveal: "...personal experiences dating
from childhood, regarding... what extraterrestrial contact is
really about..."?

Is it any wonder he wants the attendees to keep what he tells
them to themselves, signing a non-disclosure statement?!

The friend who had the most extended contact with Greer, the one
of my friends to whom Greer told the most about his alleged
visits aboard spacecraft with benign space beings, spent a
couple of days here last weekend. He had told me about Greer's
first-hand accounts of allegedly being aboard spacecraft on
several occasions before, but I grilled him repeatedly about it,
wanting to be sure that he had heard it first-hand, 'from the
horse's mouth', as the saying goes. He was unequivocal about
what Greer had told him and was equally confident that Greer's
claims are untrue. He also expressed his belief that, based on
his encounters with him, that Greer is emotionally unstable and
possibly the most emotionally volatile character he has ever
known.

Sure, that's just one man's experience with, and reactions to,
Greer, but my friend-informant is a highly experienced
investigator, and I know him well enough to have confidence in
his account and his sizing-up of Greer, and would add that what
I was told confirmed precisely my 'gut' impressions of Greer's
personality from having watched him talk on his disclosure video
and on several TV appearances.

So do I believe my friend's accounts of what Greer told him?
100% I am confident my friend told the truth about what Greer
had claimed to him and to others in his presence. I have heard
it from others, of course, too.

Maybe someone should run a disclosure project on Greer. :)

One might also ask him why he tries to usurp the famous SETI
(Search for Extra-Terrestrial Intelligences) acronym and its
reputation with the media by using SETI with a "C" in front of
it, as CSETI for his organizational acronym.

Likewise, one wouldn't have to look very far to discover his
apparent motivation for usurping the name of my laboratory for
instrumented UFO studies, Project Starlight, so embarrassing me
and my project with his flashlight brigades before the visual
media under that name, as to cause me to hesitate to use that
name ever again. Notice how on this list I have usually referred
to it a simply, "the project". Well, now you know the reason
why.

Some people who have little confidence in themselves like to
cause themselves to be mistaken for other better known persons,
when circumstances permit. With organizations, it is as easy as
borrowing (Or, should it be called stealing?) all or part of a
more reputable organization's name and hoping to be mistaken for
it. Having lifted the acronym SETI and the name Project
Starlight, one wonders what else Greer and company might be have
been 'lifting'.

That same syndrome seems evident in Greer's constant name
dropping. I have never seen anyone pump so much hot air into
merely polite acknowledgements by famous persons simply
responding to a person's (Greer's, in this case) overtures. Bob
Oeschler came in a distant second to Greer's exploitation of
this tactic.


Caveat emptor!

Ray Stanford







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   Mar > Mar 21

                Re: Jerry Black To Polygraph Bruce Maccabee -

From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser.nul>
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 20:16:18 -0700
Fwd Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 20:38:24 -0500
Subject: Re: Jerry Black To Polygraph Bruce Maccabee -


>From: Kenny Young <ufo.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 11:57:14 -0500
>Subject: Re: Jerry Black To Polygraph Bruce Maccabee

>>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 13:18:24 -0600
>>Subject: Re: Jerry Black To Polygraph Bruce Maccabee

>>I have a suggestion. If Bruce Maccabee takes a polygraph test,
>>Jerry Black agrees to take a psychiatric test.

>Jerome, List;

>Who was it that had something to say about attacking the
>messenger, not the data....? Why is there such a perception
>that this cute little quote applies only one way?

>Anyhow, just a quick note here to inform that Jerry Black has
>agreed to Wendy Connors' earlier invitation for a psychiatric
>test (see her March 16th message).

>Wendy's very serious comments (which I thought to be weird and
>mean-spirited) were taken by Jerry B. with good humor. He will
>post to the List about his full acceptance very soon, and he
>will work out the financial arrangement and other details with
>Wendy and/or Jerome very shortly (I excpect them to balk, let's
>see if I am wrong).

>I think the only conditions that he mentions would require the
>psychologist Wendy (or Jerry C.?) identifies for the testing
>should be fairly local to the Cincinnati area. So rest assured,
>it will happen.


This whole thing is nuts, and neither test will prove a thing.
Instead of studying the UFO phenomenon, we're studying each
other's brains. Saucer Smear's gonna have a field day with this.
Bruce: As one of your fiercest critics on Gulf Breeze, I can
tell you, you have nothing to prove to me, your honesty has
never been an issue, period. Jerry, I used to admire you for
your turnaround on the Walton case, but I thought maybe you'd
have learned your lesson by now. Everyone: have things gotten so
slow in the skies that we have to resort to this kind of thing
for idle entertainment?

Puh-leez.


==JJS==








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                Re: Jerry Black To Polygraph Bruce Maccabee -

From: Aaron P. LeClair <force.nul>
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 00:45:28 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 20:40:05 -0500
Subject: Re: Jerry Black To Polygraph Bruce Maccabee -


>From: Robert Frola <ufologist.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 11:11:25 +1000
>Subject: Re: Jerry Black To Polygraph Bruce Maccabee

>>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 10:57:42 -0500
>>Subject: Re: Jerry Black To Polygraph Bruce Maccabee

>>>From: Kenny Young <ufo.nul>
>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 02:39:58 -0500
>>>Subject: Jerry Black To Polygraph Bruce Maccabee

>>>Jerry Black called earlier yesterday to inform me of his
>>>appreciation of Bruce Maccabee for accepting his invitation to
>>>take a lie detector test and that his search is now underway for
>>>a polygraph examiner local to the Baltimore area. He said that
>>>he will be responding to other UFO UpDates List comments, on his
>>>own, in separate messages.

>>>The acceptance of Black's invitation is a positive gesture by
>>>Bruce Maccabee to answer one of his critics. Will be looking
>>>forward to watching things happen.

>>I gather, from the generally unenthusiastic response on this
>>List, that few people will be sitting on the edge of their seats
>>waiting for the results.

>Bruce, my opinion, for what its worth, that its a bad idea and
>proves nothing. Your reputation stands alone. Your research
>unchallenged and solid. You don't need to entertain the
>skeptics.

Strange. If Black has faith in polygraphs, then he should
believe Ed Walters hmmm. That being so, drop it.









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   Mar > Mar 21

             Re: Jerry Black To Polygraph Bruce Maccabee - Gates

From: Robert Gates <RGates8254.nul>
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 02:45:07 EST
Fwd Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 20:42:23 -0500
Subject: Re: Jerry Black To Polygraph Bruce Maccabee - Gates


>From: Kenny Young <ufo.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 02:39:58 -0500
>Subject: Jerry Black To Polygraph Bruce Maccabee

>Jerry Black called earlier yesterday to inform me of his
>appreciation of Bruce Maccabee for accepting his invitation to
>take a lie detector test and that his search is now underway for
>a polygraph examiner local to the Baltimore area. He said that
>he will be responding to other UFO UpDates List comments, on his
>own, in separate messages.

>The acceptance of Black's invitation is a positive gesture by
>Bruce Maccabee to answer one of his critics. Will be looking
>forward to watching things happen.

Kenny,

Some thoughts come to mind. As I recall it was recently
mentioned that Ed Walters passed one Polygraph, had a surprise
test sprung on him and passed that, plus passed a voice stress
test. So Ed Walters, the person actually claiming to have
seen/photographed a UFO has passed polygraph testing, yet
apparently Jerry Black wants the investigator to be polygraphed
as well.

Brings to mind interesting possibilities. If you investigated a
UFO case, conclude it was a real UFO, is it warranted that
somebody should demand that you be polygraphed as well to answer
people who disagree with your investigation? Just a thought


Cheers,

Robert








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   Mar > Mar 21

                     Re: A Steven Greer Response - Gates

From: Robert Gates <RGates8254.nul>
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 02:58:00 EST
Fwd Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 20:46:22 -0500
Subject: Re: A Steven Greer Response - Gates


>From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>To: - UFO UpDates Subscribers -
>Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 10:16:17 -0500
>Subject: UFO UpDate: A Steven Greer Response


>List,

>The following came my way yesterday. I post it FYI,
>despite its origin - again, only FYI.....

>ebk

>-----


>Source: DrRichBoylanReports.nul

>"Factual reports from Dr. Richard Boylan, one of the foremost
>researchers on Star Visitors, UFOs, encounters with Star People,
>and the human condition post-contact."


>From: Richard Boylan, Ph.D. [mailto:drboylan.nul]
>Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 11:49 PM
>To: DrRichBoylanReports.nul
>Subject: [DrRichBoylanReports] Steven Greer's response, and my analysis
>     thereof


>(Steven Greer, MD responded:)

>"To Whom It May Concern,

>Ongoing slander requires that I respond to allegations being made in
>various circles.

>The event next month is limited to 15 people because it will be held
>at our private home and we can only accommodate this number of
>people. A donation is requested since the intent of the gathering is
>to create a historical record of events and the production of
>materials to release to the public will cost between $20,000 and
>$25,000, conservatively (out of pocket expenses only). Far from this
>being some elite event, it is designed to quickly get the truth and
>historical record out to the general public. This is the express
>purpose of the gathering and the resulting materials which will be
>created.

List,

Lets take all the fluff and drival away. What this appears to be
in essence is wanting 15 people to invest $600 each (9 grand
total) into helping him bank roll the latest project(s). No
doubt that the people will be groped (oops wrong word) asked to
donate some more towards the end/at the end of the conference.
Doubtlessly for another 1500-2000 each he can train everybody
during the evening hours on CSETI training etc etc.

>Ridiculous and unfounded allegations that somehow I am a member of a
>high cabal, or have somehow sold out to same, are baseless. In
>reality, we are fiercely independent and our goals and purpose have
>been clearly articulated. Our actions speak for our intent.
>It is true that we have had important discussions with a number of
>people and organizations related to covert programs, as well as
>leaders of government and society generally. Our purpose is to
>provide insight, information and perspective and to engage such
>groups and individuals to persuade them to disclose the truth before
>it is too late.

On one hand Greer claims he is going to give us all these pearls
and revelations based upon his 14 year inside look at Greer
meetings "with the World's Powerful Elites - and what they know
(and don't know)" yet why would the so called all powerful elite
meet with Greer, knowing everything they whisper into his ear is
going to get unloaded at a disclosure event? With that being the
case, then one asks the question as to why the "World's Powerful
Elites" allegedly are whispering into Greer's ear, unless they
are using it to suit their own agenda. After all these Powerful
Elites are the same Powerful Elites that allegedly have lied,
cheated, covered up etc etc all these years. Just a thought.

>Jealous ranting notwithstanding, we feel it important that all
>people be viewed as educable and capable of transformation -even the
>power elites. We are neither influenced =D8=F8 nor corrupted in any way by=

>such contacts. On the contrary, it is a measure of our sincerity
>that we wish to engage all parties and view all humans as our
>brothers and sisters who can see that it is time for the truth to
>come out, and encourage them to facilitate such a disclosure.
>As for the endless ad hominem attacks, it is any wonder so few
>people of capacity step forward to engage this issue? Those so badly
>behaving need only look in the mirror to apprehend why the secrecy
>continues. "

And the Secrecy is continung at the Greer level by the signing
of non-disclosure agreements with the parties... but of course
its probably considered to be totally different when Greer wants
a non-disclosure agreement signed.....


Cheers,

Robert








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   Mar > Mar 21

               Re: 'The Mythologist' AKA Armen Victorian/Henry

From: Nick Pope <nick.nul>
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 09:42:29 -0000
Fwd Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 20:48:24 -0500
Subject: Re: 'The Mythologist' AKA Armen Victorian/Henry


>From: Aaron LeClair <force.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 14:23:46 -0500
>Subject: Re: 'The Mythologist' AKA Armen Victorian/Henry Azadehdel

>>From: Nick Pope <nick.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 01:59:23 -0000
>>Subject: Re: 'The Mythologist' AKA Armen Victorian/Henry Azadehdel

<snip>

>>Thanks. I look forward to this. "Dr Henry" was one of ufology's
>>more colourful characters in the early Nineties. He telephoned
>>me frequently at the MOD and his calls were always entertaining.

>>Either he or Lucien Morgan (another colourful character from
>>those days) claimed that I was a member of 'The Aviary' - a
>>group of serving and former government, military and
>>intelligence personnel who were allegedly setting the ufological
>>agenda.

>>My codename was Woodpecker. Apparently.

>Haven't heard that rumor before. Heard the one where you are
>supposed to be an abductee though. I E-mailed you about it
>awhile back. Ever find out who started that rumor Mr. Pope?

Aaron,

There are so many rumors about me doing the rounds, it's
difficult to keep up sometimes.

I'm not quite sure how this one started. I believe it involved a
ufologist doing a bit of self-promotion and/or trying to sell a
story to a national newspaper.


Best wishes,

Nick Pope








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   Mar > Mar 21

              Re: UFOs And Fairies/Legends/Supernatural - Pt. I

From: Chris Aubeck <caubeck.nul>
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 13:14:49 +0000 (GMT)
Fwd Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 20:52:05 -0500
Subject: Re: UFOs And Fairies/Legends/Supernatural - Pt. I


>From: Luis R. Gonzalez <lrgm.nul>
>Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 16:17:53 +0100
>Fwd Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 10:56:48 -0500
>Subject: Re: UFOs And Fairies/Legends/Supernatural - Pt. I

>>From: Terry W. Colvin <fortean1.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 10:20:53 -0700
>>Subject: UFOs And Fairies/Legends/Supernatural - Pt. I


>T. Peter Park wrote:

><snip>

>>A strange "construction" with "lights" and a "noisy
>>motor" flew low over Copiapo, Chile, on July 1,
>>1868. Local people described it as" a gigantic bird"
>>with "eyes wide open and shining like burning
>>coals," covered with "immense scales" that "clashed
>>together with a metallic sound". Although it was not
>>an actual landing, Jacques Vallee called this the
>>first instance of close
>>observation of an unknown object at low altitude in
>>the nineteenth century. [Charles Fort, 'Lo!' (1931),
>>in 'The Complete Books of Charles Fort' (New York:
>>Dover Publications, 1974), p. 638,
>>citing 'Zoologist', July, 1868;Jacques Vallee,
>>Passport to Magonia' (Henry Regnery, 1969), pp.
>>179-180, Case 1]

>A Chilean colleague located and transcribed _literally_ the
>original clipping (in Spanish, sorry):

Hi Luis, Peter,

Just for the record, I also looked into the famous "Copiago"
sighting a couple of years ago as part of an effort to gather
"winged serpent" tales from all over the world.

What originally caught my eye was the near overlap of dates
between the account of a strange airship seen in Parramatta
(Australia) in 1868 and the "Copiago" event. According to the
Magonia Catalogue, the "aerial construction" was sighted over
Chile in July 1868, the same month as the Parramatta sighting.
And both cases concerned "scaly" aircraft.

In Anatomy of a Phenomenon (1965), young Vall=E9e wrote that the
object emitted light and gave off an engine noise, its scales
clashing with a metallic sound. He cited two sources: Charles
Fort's Lo! (1931) and "Zoologist, January, 1868." What surprised
me was that the latter journal would have predated the sighting
itself by about six months!

A search through Fort's book soon solved the mystery. Fort had
quoted from the July 1868 edition of the Zoologist, but this
journal was quoting from a newspaper printed some time before. I
also found that Fort had written the town's name as "Copiapo,"
which is in fact the correct spelling of the town. (An internet
search for "Copiago" produces a large number of hits, most -- but
not all -- of which stem originally from Vall=E9e's typographical
error. However, no such place exists in the world.)

I soon acquired both the original Spanish article and the one
published in Zoologist. A third, also dated 1868, was located
later by Jerry Clark for the Magonia Exchange project:

http://embark.to/magonia

The Copiapo case turns out to be less interesting than I had
first hoped. Basically, the story came from a letter sent by the
directors of a copper mine to the newspaper "El Constituyente"
of Copiapo, published on March 18th 1868. The (alleged)
sighting, therefore, took place just over four months prior to
the Parramatta incident. The original title of the report was
"Este es cuento" ('This is a Tale'), referring to the fantastic
nature of the sighting, though not necessarily in disbelief.
Here it is in English:

"Yesterday at around 5:00pm, when the day's work in the mine was
over and all the workers were gathered together waiting for
their dinner, we saw arrive through the air, on the side of [the
mine known as] "la Ternera," an enormous bird that at first we
took for the clouds that at that moment were covering a part of
the atmosphere, supposing that it had been separated from other
clouds by a chance gust of wind=85As the object in question
approached, causing us great surprise, we could see it was an
unknown flying object (un vol=E1til desconocido). It was moving
from the northeast to the southeast and its flight was fast and
in a very straight line. It passed over just above our heads and
we could see the strange structure of its body. Its great wings
were covered in brownish feathers; the head of the monster
looked like that of a lobster and its eyes open wide and bright
like embers, and it seemed to be covered in something resembling
thick hair, like a sow. Its body was long like a snake's and
only bright scales could be seen on it, which sounded like
metallic pieces when the strange animal moved them.

"Surprise soon became panic amongst the workers before such a
strange phenomenon. All the ornithological knowledge of the good
miners was useless as they searched for the name and nature of
the strange bird that had just passed by, happily leaving no
trace [without causing any damage]. Some claim they detected a
terrible smell in those moments, a smell similar to arsenic when
it is burnt. Others say their senses were not so injured in such
an odd manner. The superstitious believe it was the devil
himself who they saw pass over, while others remember having
witnessed, in the that city, years ago, the passing of a similar
monstrous bird."

It is interesting to see how the miners' story has changed from
'strange bird' to 'spaceship' over the years. The fault lies
ultimately with Charles Fort himself, who interpreted the
description as "a construction that carried lights, and was
propelled by a noisy motor." Vall=E9e's "aerial construction
emitting light and giving off engine noise=85interpreted locally
as a giant bird" is a seemingly harmless reversal of the
argument, but it soon led to many more fanciful versions.


Best wishes,

Chris Aubeck

http://embark.to/magonia

Idiomas SEIF
Carrera de S. Jeronimo, 17, 1 - A
Madrid 28014
Spain

tlf: 687758960










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   Mar > Mar 21

                       OZARK UFO Conference April 9-11

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 06:19:23 -0800
Fwd Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 20:53:15 -0500
Subject: OZARK UFO Conference April 9-11


Source: The Kansas City Star

http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascitystar/living/travel/8211780.htm?1c

Mar. 21, 2004


OZARK UFO CONFERENCE: April 9-11, Inn of the Ozarks Convention
Center, Eureka Springs, Ark. Vendors, researchers, authors and
folks who say they've had UFO experiences will be at the Ozarks
Convention Center for lectures, media presentations and other
activities. $40 a person. (501) 354-2558 or www.ozarkufo.com.
Eureka Springs is in northwest Arkansas.








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   Mar > Mar 21

                Re: Jerry Black To Polygraph Bruce Maccabee -

From: Kelly Freeman <Khfflsciufo.nul>
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 09:50:20 EST
Fwd Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 20:54:38 -0500
Subject: Re: Jerry Black To Polygraph Bruce Maccabee -


>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sat,20 Mar 2004 12:58:19 -0600
>Subject: Re: Jerry Black To Polygraph Bruce Maccabee

>>From: Kenny Young <ufo.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 11:57:14 -0500
>>Subject: Re: Jerry Black to Polygraph Bruce Maccabee

>>Who was it that had something to say about attacking the
>>messenger, not the data....? Why is there such a perception
>>that this cute little quote applies only one way?

>You guys beggar belief in your hypocrisy, self-righteousness,
>vindictiveness, and personality-obsessed 'research'. From his
>vantage point somewhere in hell, though, I'm sure Joe McCarthy
>is smiling at you.

Jerry and list,

Just like to throw in my two cents. Jerry, you are absolutely
right. Let's not afford these two any more time than they
deserve. Bruce, don't take the test. Let's move on.


Peace,

Kelly Freeman









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   Mar > Mar 21

                      Ozzy - Friend Of Little Green Men

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 08:37:39 -0800
Fwd Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 20:56:28 -0500
Subject: Ozzy - Friend Of Little Green Men



Source: New Musical Express - UK

http://www.nme.com/news/107905.htm

21-03-2004

Ozzy - Friend Of Little Green Men

Ozzy Osbourne has been named the nation's favourite ambassador
to welcome aliens to planet earth.

The well-loved rock God has pipped Prime Minister Tony Blair and
presenters Ant and Dec as the face people want to represent them
to alien life.

The poll, on Yahoo! News survey on the Internet, was carried out
following the discovery of signs of water on Mars.

US president George Bush and glamour model Jordan came level in
the survey - with just 9% of the votes.

Ozzy, currently recovering from a near fatal fall from his quad
bike, won 26% of the vote.










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   Mar > Mar 22

               Intruders Foundation Mortellaro Case Statement

From: Larry W. Bryant <overtci.nul>
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 23:16:15 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 08:35:13 -0500
Subject: Intruders Foundation Mortellaro Case Statement


From: IFCentral.nul
To: undisclosed-recipients:;
Date: Sat, March 20, 2004 3:09 pm
Subject: Intruders Foundation - Case Investigation Public Statement


For Public Release: The James Mortellaro Case

March 9, 2004

At any given time the Intruders Foundation simultaneously
conducts more than a dozen ongoing investigations. It is unusual
for us to publicly take a position on cases while investigations
are underway. Such investigations may take years, depending on a
subject's willingness and proximity to our office, the number of
individuals involved, and the types of evidence surrounding the
case. As one would expect, we focus most of our attention on
cases which present multiple participants, eyewitnesses, and
physical and/or supporting medical evidence.

One such case that appeared to meet all of these criteria was
that of Jim Mortellaro. (Our use of Mr. Mortellaro's real name
is in no way a violation of his confidentiality as he has
voluntarily been using his name over the internet and on radio
broadcasts for a number of years.)

For some time now the Intruders Foundation has been
investigating the case of Mr. Mortellaro and seeking
documentation which he had promised would substantiate the case.

This case was of great interest because of the alleged medical
injuries resulting from his abduction in 2001.

Unfortunately, Mr. Mortellaro has never produced credible
evidence in support of these claims.

Furthermore, he provided us with two allegedly official
documents which have proved to be fabrications.

Therefore, Budd Hopkins and the Advisory Committee of the
Intruders Foundation no longer consider this case worthy of
investigation.

Though Mr. Mortellaro may in fact have had abduction experiences
and may have suffered physical trauma as a result of these
experiences, his questionable credibility has forced us to
abandon his case.

As always, the Intruders Foundation continues to apply a
detailed, cautious and methodical protocol to the consideration
and investigation of all potential abduction cases. We thank you
all for your ongoing interest and support of our work.


~ Budd Hopkins
& The Intruders Foundation Advisory Committee








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   Mar > Mar 22

             Selected NRO Documents On Reconnaissance Satellites

From: Larry W. Bryant <overtci.nul>
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 15:04:08 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 09:16:40 -0500
Subject: Selected NRO Documents On Reconnaissance Satellites


Perhaps it would be worthwhile to examine the various 'crashed-
satellite' records to determine the policies and practices of
the official preparedness for, and response to, such serious-
incident reports - especially if any of those crashes resulted
from reported interference with the satellites' operation by so-
called "hostile aerial craft"?]

-----

From: Michael Ravnitzky <mikerav.nul>
To: FOI-L.nul
Date: Sun, March 21, 2004 2:29 am
Subject: [FOI-L] Selected NRO Documents on Reconnaissance Satellites


SELECTED NRO DOCUMENTS ON RECONNAISSANCE SATELLITES
by Michael Ravnitzky , mikerav.nul

Here are a few noteworthy and intriguing documents - and a film
- I spotted in a bibliography of declassified National
Reconnaissance Office - NRO -- documents concerning the history
of spy satellites; you can ask for, and receive, any of the
documents from the NRO at this address:

National Reconnaissance Office
Attn: FOIA Officer
Information Access and Release Center
14675 Lee Road
Chantilly, VA 20151-1715
telephone number: 703 808-5029
fax number: 703 808-5082

Note: all of these documents were recently declassified.

Handling of Capsule - Mission 1005 Crash in Venezuela, August
1964, 2 pages, 2/B/0063, barcode 1400069532

Instructions to Investigation Team in Venezuela, August 1964, 1
page, index 2/B/0062, barcode 1400069565

Incident in Venezuela, On-going Actions for the Recovery and
HANDLING OF THE MEDIA, September 1964, 3 pages, index 2/B/0064,
barcode 1400069496

Memo on New York Times Article 8 July Concerning USAF Discoverer
Program, July 1961, index 2/b/0056, barcode 1400073727

NRO Briefing of President's Foreign Intelligence Advisory Board
- 2 October 1964 Summary of Events, Corona J Mission, Oct 5
Ballistic Impact in Venezuela, 7 pages, index b/4/0024, barcode
1400029037

Memo: Aerial Observation of Area 51 (note: in Corona Mission
9031) April 6, 1962, index 3/A/0079, barcode 1400073566

Reason Why U.S. May be Interested in Obtaining a Geodetic Map of
the Globe, January 1960, 10 pages, index 2/c/0038, barcode
1400066738

Avoidance of Coorbital Intercept, March 10, 1971, index
3/C/0010, barcode 1400022950

Discoverer Contingency Plan, February 1961, 2 pages, index
6/A/0061, barcode 1400070397

Discoverer Program - One Routing Slip, Special Group Minutes -
 contingency plan, August 1961, 2 pages, index 6/A/0062, barcode
1400040963

SAMOS Contingency Plan, March 1962, 5 pages, index 6/A/0063,
barcode 1400023473

Satellite Reconnaissance Contingency Plan, June 1962, 7 pages,
index 6/A/0064, barcode 1400040980

Committee Meeting with Attachments A, B, C, D - contingency
plan, August 1964, 9 pages, index 6/A/0065, barcode 400073414

Motion Picture Color Film: A Point In Time: the Corona Story,
40-50 minutes, May 1995

Motion Picture Script: A Point in Time: the Corona Story, 53
pages, June 1973, index 2?A/0079, barcode 1400023050

Motion Picture Script Treatment, 20 pages, July 1973, 2/B/0039,
barcode 1400040624

Security Protection of Ultra-Sensitive Advanced Intelligence
Collection Systems, Report to the President, ? pages, January
1962, index 6/B/0039, barcode 1400038388

Cover Stories and Procedures for Advanced Intelligence
Collection Systems, PFIAB Recommendation No. 33, July 1962,
index 6/B/0042, barcode 1400038394

Office of Special Projects 1965-1970 Volume 1 of 4, Chapters 1-
2, 153 pages, June 1973, index 2/A/0075, barcode 1400062182

Office of Special Projects 1965-1970 Volume 2 of 4, Chapters 3-4
& references, 156 pages, June 1973, index 2/A/0076, barcode
1400062185

Office of Special Projects 1965-1970 Volume 3 of 4, Appendix B,C
and D and Annex I, 209 pages, June 1973, index 2/A/0077, barcode
1400062814

Office of Special Projects 1965-1970 Volume 4 of 4, Appendix A,
213 pages, June 1973, index 2/A/0078, barcode 1400062183


==========






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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   Mar > Mar 22

                    Re: Hats Off To George Noory! - Hatch

From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 12:06:39 -0800
Fwd Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 09:20:10 -0500
Subject: Re: Hats Off To George Noory! - Hatch


>From: Royce J. Myers III <ufowatchdog.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 11:14:20 -0800
>Subject: Re: Hats Off To George Noory!

>>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 07:05:32 -0800
>>Subject: Re: Hats Off To George Noory!

<snip>

>>I don't blame Noory for dumping the huckster, he simply didn't
>>play by the rules. Don't forget the main rule: Knock up the
>>ratings or you're outta here.

>>This shaman refused to tell us when the End of the World was
>>scheduled. That's what pissed Noory off; not some new devotion
>>to high standards of radio journalism.

>>Anyone who relies on late night radio for the 'truth' about UFOs
>>or other controversial matters gets exactly what they deserve.

>This is a first for C2C: Last night Noory announced that he had
actually engaged in, get this, checking out someone's claims -
 namely the claim of the two guests that they had visited the
last of the Fatima bunch.

>Now, will C2C start checking out their other guests (i.e.:
Dames, Morton, et al) and call them on their bull? It'd be nice
to see, but I have to completely agree with Larry that the
optimism here on the List may be too much to hope for.....

Wow! Checking out the wild claims. That is new. I don't expect
some Conversion of Paul (I mean George), but even small things
matter on a show with such a big audience.

Best

- Larry








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   Mar > Mar 22

              The Friedman/McGaha Debate - The Day CSICOP Died!

From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul>
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 16:27:46 -0600
Fwd Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 10:52:04 -0500
Subject: The Friedman/McGaha Debate - The Day CSICOP Died!


The Friedman/McGaha Debate - The Day CSICOP Died!

Lately, over the last couple of months, I've instituted a
personal attitude shift for myself that was a little more subtle
for me than it's going to be for another, perhaps. Three hots
and a cot provided by a small military retirement has provided
me a lot of time to think - out of the box - as I endure an
unemployment born of pique and persecution, unjustified and not
of my manufacture. I've come to some interesting conclusions as
a result of that thinking that are serious about cultural
criticism (to facilitate a more efficacious reality), so, I'm
trying to encourage as many individuals as I can to 'shift' with
me. I feel it's the future.

Why not? Each day that goes by seems to provide a little more
external validation for this invigorating attitudinal 'shift',
so bear with me if you can - and can decipher the "personal
code" I've been accused of writing in - <g> - because the
result, I think, is the more timely acceptance of an unavoidable
and quickly approaching future that we are all ignorant of...
and for which we are generally unprepared, myself included. I
think we would do well to prepare, more, for this future.
Presently, we are being denied, by our conflicted culture - its
governments, agencies, and institutions - the tools and
materials for that preparation.

That future could be wonderful, folks. We'd do well to be
reasonably prepared for it.

Before my "attitude adjustment," and while maintaining a general
profile as a confident proponent for the extraterrestrial
hypothesis (no apologies there!), I still endured an
undercurrent of personal embarrassment, actually, regarding any
discussion I might try to initiate regarding my ufological
activities, projects, or concerns... with the mainstream world
I'm immersed in... forgetting for a moment the off-line world of
friends and acquaintances also sharing that mainstream world
with me. Prudence locally practiced... seemed indicated. Lack of
it, apparently, got me disqualified from a second career, after
all... I was a tad gun-shy.....

On sidebar, If "the man" is going to deny a person a living wage
for lawful thinking out of the box... what will "he" do if a
person persists? I intend to find out.....

Anyway, I used to be oversensitive and demonstratively
'understanding' (ironic, that!) about the discomfort of persons
around me regarding the subject of UFOs, 'indulgent' of their
lack of ufological interest, and 'disappointed', more than a
little, by their own lack of understanding - their pitying or
scornful expressions and abrupt subject changes (if I tried
to bring the subject up cold?). What follows is a brief
composite conversation with the "mainstream," over the years,
for illustration...

"I saw a strange light in the sky this morning doing some really impossible
things..." I might start...

"Oh yeah..."? ...is the guarded response...

"Yeah... it looked like the shuttle or the space station going over, was
brighter than Venus, and..."

"...It likely -was- the shuttle or the space station going over..." he'd
interrupt.

"I've got an animated schedule from the NASA site that ruled them out...,"
I'd counter.

"Well - it was some other satellite, then... there's hundreds of them up
there."

"Well... yeah," I'd concede, "but none as bright as Venus... I get forecasts
on those too. Additionally, these lights..."

"...Still" He interrupts quickly, "...it had to be a satellite, or a plane
or a balloon, or something..." He shakes an impatient head...

"Well - it changed speed and direction, stopped, and was traveling more or
less due west..."

"So"?

"Well - it was comparatively erratic in flight and absolutely silent with
no navigation lights, ruling out a plane; balloons and satellites don't
abruptly change direction, rate of speed, and... stop. Moreover, satellites
generally don't go west."

"...Um-hmm... so it must be aliens, then, huh?" His pitying smirk begins its
slow bloom.

"Well, no, not necessarily... it just seems to be a logical thing to wonder
given that as the 'impossible' begins to be eliminated about UFOs...
...whatever remains, however improbable, might be the truth about UFOs..."

...Blank look from the addressed, followed most usually by a
subject change or retreat, or even open hostility...

...Look. I know these people have lives - families, jobs, and
mortgages. Further, I know that it's me making the waves,
rocking their boat, or kicking at the last-century wooden spokes
of the wheels on their aggregate cultural applecart. I know that
I can be discomfiting with regard to my ready willingness to
question general reality or providing for an invalidation of
everyone's, too comfortable, status quo. I understand the need
to believe in something rock solid so the night shadows are held
at bay, and I can appreciate that it's difficult to contemplate
that "'everything' one 'knows' is 'wrong'"... That's what kept
me at bay with regard to a more strident and challenging
approach in some chance discussion with the ufologically
unwashed. This is what embarrassed me, reader, provided for my
over-sensitivity to an another's arguably specious or contrived
sensibilities, and compelled an understanding, an acceptance
even, of their lack of intellectual bravery. I figured they were
innocent and victims in the social duplicity just like I was. I
was worried about their feelings.

It's not that way anymore. I would be remiss if I didn't voice
my concern, express my opinion, or make my contribution to the
thought pool available. It's the least I can do, reader, when I
have the manipulating and programming thoughts of others imposed
upon me in an even more forceful manner, and in an authoritarian
way considerably less efficacious than I would dispense or have
dispensed to me. I'm expected to be honest, forthright and
dependable with regard to my society while my society is,
plainly, not honest, forthright or dependable to me in return. I
have difficulty respecting a society that has no respect for me.

I have solid ethics, myself, but my society, seemingly, has no
morals. This creates problems for me that are not of my
manufacture.....

You see, it's not my problem that the scales have begun to fall
from my own eyes. It's not my problem that I still have a
bravery honed, refined, and made baldly mandatory in the social
conditionings of two decades of combat, combat aviation
training, and troop leadership in the armed forces. It's not my
problem that another will choose to turn a blind eye to a
substantially abundant ufological evidentiary base... and
masquerade their equally blind ignorance with obligatory
debunker-isms, spoon-fed CSICOPian platitudes, and head-in-the-
sand congested worldviews! It's not my problem that people
prefer to trust the realities manufactured for them by a
thoroughly corrupted lap-dog and imposter mainstream, or put
their faith and cognitive stock into the canted thinking
contrived for them by those who would try to manipulate them to
ends the manipulated would not appreciate if we knew what those
ends were - no apologies here either! And remember: It's not my
song, folks, and you'd be remiss shooting the piano player. Do
enough of that and pretty soon you won't hear any music at
all... with the exception of the state approved!

It's not my problem, friends and neighbors! Rather, it's a
problem inflicted upon me by an imposed, encouraged, or even
nurtured cultural naivete - I once gleefully supported -  that
society was ultimately predisposed to provide the greatest good
for the greatest number. Upon discovering that the truth was
more... uh... 'oblique' than that - that society was actually
only interested in providing the credible [and grudging]
illusion of "providing the greatest-good-for-the- greatest-
 number". I'm compelled to hold the mainstream authorities,
their representatives, and their faith-based apologists to the
same fire that has been held to me, and protest, stridently (if
needs be!) where they can be found to be breaking the 'rules',
advantaging themselves in the codification of these 'rules', or
selectively interpreting the 'rules' to suit the aforementioned
few. That's a discredited CSICOPian charter, good reader! I'll
have no part of it.

The arguments and the credibilities of the 'mainstream' (and
CSICOPia!) are dead, flatly, become more decomposed and
odiferous with each accelerating second, and can no longer be
counted upon to be the common-sense-retreat-to-traditional-
solid-ground that a reflexive conservative apologist might,
shrilly, advise that they were. No. They're decidedly not a
"step back to better times." They're a step back to medieval
times of feudal social atrocity and the unrestricted lusts of
cold-fish and elitist psychopaths! Devoid of any responsibility
for fairness, and with zero regard for the sensibilities of
individual persons ground up in the institutional machines of
these "neo-lords of imposed ignorance", they destroy the middle
class, supplant the "freer republic" and replace it with an
anti-individualist "new theocracy" every bit as bad (for the
rising and the advancing of the individual human spirit) as
fundamentalist Islam. Even worse in many ways.

Which brings me, albeit the long way around, at last, to the
Friedman/McGaha debate at TSUM on January 24, 2004, or what may
come to be known as, "The Day CSICOP Died...".

There is precious little hyperbole in the preceding and the
preceding is an apt citation in strong support of the ufological
attitude change - alluded to at the beginning of this essay. A
"standing room only" crowd witnessed the complete and total
demolition of all of CSICOPia in the person of one - decidedly
less than intrepid - Mr. McGaha, apparently the only person in
all of CSICOPia willing to stand toe to toe with Mr. Friedman in
a controlled debate. The reader can witness the carnage on tape,
herself, for a small (tres reasonable!) fee. Goliath gets
stomped, again, by David.

The, plainly one-sided, debate began with Mr. Friedman, his
usual faultless ufological rationality in full sail! He stuck to
the facts, outlined his justifications splendidly, and did one
more significant thing. He refrained from any gratuitous insult.
Mr. McGaha failed to perform in a, remotely, similar fashion.
His facts were blustery proclamations, his justifications were
silly, specious, and unconvincing, and he was sneering thinly
veiled insult from one end of his unpracticed presentation to
the other, lightly intimating that Mr. Friedman was a fool to be
discounted out of hand.

The reader will understand when I say it was perfectly obvious
who the fool, really, was. Mr. McGaha paid - and will continue to
pay - heavily, I'm sure, for his easy insolence and reflex
disrespect. He was rude, presumptuous, condescending, unclear,
pedantic, arrogant, patronizing, and not a little duplicitous
where Friedman was the textbook opposite of these things.
Additionally, McGaha was a case study of Friedman's Four Laws of
Fraudulent debunkery..... To wit:

1). "What the public doesn't know, we certainly won't tell
them."

A look of flawless innocence on his moon-like face, he resold
the Robertson Panel and the Condon Report as straight-up
peer reviewed reports born of balanced science... instead of the
admitted torpedoes to serious ufology they were first designed
to be and then actually were! There were dozens of these
anecdotes proffered by Mr. McGaha... some of them real head-
scratchers... He claimed, for example that the sheer volume of
reports regarding different UFO appearances was proof they
didn't exist!!! All the descriptions of UFOs should be the same
to demonstrate verity, McGaha seems to think... ??? Astonishing.

2). "My mind is made up, don't bother me with the facts."

His nose thrown high in almost laughing scorn he pontificated
during one of his pompous verbal faux-pas that there was
"...zero physical evidence of UFOs... PERIOD," and this was
after Mr. Friedman talked about what constituted physical
evidence, indicated some 5000 trace cases, and showed some
slides of same. What a feather-brained and oblivious thing for
Mr. McGaha to do and say.

3). "If one can't attack the data, attack the people. It is
easier."

A large portion of Mr. McGaha's presentation was taken up with
insult to those of us decidedly not in Mr. McGaha's camp,
deriding the abduction community, or dismissing the rest of
anyone else with an open mind - forgetting those thoroughly
convinced, like myself - as malingering "little" people trying
to connect to something "big", patent misleaders, the credulous
mislead, or the weak-willed mentally ill! Finally, dismissing
the noted professor Dr. Peter Sturrock - a trained scientist
with more courage in a nail paring than can be found in a gaggle
of pelicanists - as a thoughtless "believer" was simply
infuriating.

4). "Do one's research by proclamation rather than
investigation."

I don't think Mr. McGaha answered one question asked of him that
evening, at all, that sparks didn't just fly like angry bees off
the CSICOPian axe he ground in the answering of them!

Additionally, he was clear as churned mud with half of what he
said all evening, too - all of it airy proclamation of his
scientistic (sic) faith, bland misinformation, and pointless
ideological saber rattling.

Moreover, his overuse of the expression, "Period", was amateur,
ill-informed, and unconvincing. He used it like it was a
citation when all it really was, was a demonstration that he had
no citation. "There are no UFOs... (wait for it!) ...Period"!

Oh, OK... Mr. McGaha said, "Period"! Everyone turn in your tin-
foil hat and laser pointer! We can at last disband and go our
separate ways"! Such is the verity and validity of McGaha's
citation: "Period"! Mmm... no.....

Doing more harm to his denialist CSICOPian position than would
have been forecast, Mr. McGaha's strutting patronization pointed
up the paucity of his facts, his startling ignorance regarding
the topic, his reliance on fallacy and misdirection to make his
point, and, finally, illuminated the certainty that the hallmark
of CSICOPia is 'reflexive thinking' in support of the suspect
status quo... and not 'reflective thinking' in support of the
advancement of individual human spirit.

He and his knee-jerk reactionary institution are the fuel on the
fire of my rejection of same! He allows me - nay, compels
me... provokes me... tasks me - to pull off my gloves and be
solicitous, no longer, of the specious sensibilities of persons
with a ready sneer, a complacent ignorance, or a self-closed
mind!

He's put me in a situation where I have to "start scaring the
straights," (to quote Bill Murray), too, and that's
regrettable... but, it's not me kicking the spokes out of their
cultural wheels, but that their spokes were bad - or missing
altogether - to begin with! Couple the preceding with the stark
refusal of these persons to perceive that their 'emperor' (or
Mr. McGaha for that matter) is decidedly without a stitch of
clothing... and a mandated shift in ufological attitude is more
than justified!

Shift where - if it hasn't been clear? Shift from the apologetic
and unsettled 'fringe' as a reviled and dismissed "believer" -
 tas purposefully degraded by Mr. McGaha - to the brave and un-
 conflicted individual... comfortable and confident that he/she
holds the higher rational ground, would do the purer, more
courageous science - given tools and fundage - is more in line
with where the mainstream should be, and so should be the
mainstream, in fact! These 'new' mainstreamers can be secure in
their more supportable convictions regarding the 'reality of
things' as it pertains to the ufological and its peripheral
issues... based on a stunning mass of "six kinds" of evidence
for same - anecdotal, photographic, historical/artistic, physical,
scientific, and personal!

Unfounded and unsupported criticisms of canted and denying bias
from the 'former' mainstream remove it to the "real" fringe,
friends and neighbors, and the higher pressure open-minded move
in to supplant the resulting void! That's when we take off in
this new millenium, fellow motes, and not before! My feelings.

It's a new age. Prepare to live in it. There's no other choice.
Oh, and pleasantly surprise both of us and try to do something
more than persecute me for reminding you of the just preceding,
and thanks. Regardless, I'll give as good as I get. Sincerity
and supported convivtion is my protector.

To close: Buy the Friedman/McGaha debate tape by contacting
Stanton Friedman at fsphys.nul I'd wager Mr. McGaha
won't be providing them. Read on.









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   Mar > Mar 22

                Re: Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices? -

From: Barry Taylor <stingray.nul>
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 11:15:00 +1100
Fwd Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 10:54:09 -0500
Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices? -


>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 11:31:40 -0500
>Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices?

>From: Barry Taylor <stingray.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 18:21:04 +1100
>Subject: Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices?

Hi list members,

Bruce, after studying the footage overnight, especially by Mike
Kryzton taken from Moon Mountain, I found the following...

I fully agree with you when you say the 13th March 1997, 10PM
event was flares dropped by aircraft. They do drop and move as
you suggest. This event was 'not' a UFO craft/objects.

Overlay of the nightime and daytime images 'does' show the
flares were dropped 'behind' the peak in the Estrella range. I
will put these images on my site soon.

Study of the  Kryzton footage I have, begins with three flares
already illuminated. The fourth illuminates. If you count the
seconds between the ignition of flares 5,6,7 and 8, you will
find the following.

Flare 5 = 8 seconds
Flare 6 = 9 seconds
Flare 7 = 5 seconds
Flare 8 = 8 seconds

You say in your report:

"The size of the array is given by the following estimated
distances: between the first and second lights to appear was
about 7.5 miles and between the second and ninth lights is about
3.7 miles"

The problem of actual distance arises when working out the speed
of aircraft dropping the flares and time between flare display.

If the flares were say 60 miles away, the shortest time between
flare ignition is 5 seconds. If the flares were say 2 miles
apart, then the aircraft would have to flying at 1440 MPH to
cover the 2 mile distance in 5 sec. If the distance between
flares were 4 miles, you would have to double this speed. Same
applies if flares 70-80 miles away. This does seem unlikely does
it not?

If the speed of the aircraft was a more likely 200MPH, then the
following would apply...

200mph = 0.055 miles/sec. or .227 of a mile in 5 sec. (1/4 mile
in 5 sec.)

Average drop time of flares 5 to 8 is 7.625 sec. 0.055 x 7.625 =
0.42 of a mile between each flare. (average) Multiply this by 4
(number of flares) = 1.677 miles between flares 5 and 8.

Draw a line on an overlay (day & night) image from flare 5 and 8
to the mountain top and ground to the Phoenix city far boarder.
Is this ground distance close to 1.677 miles?

If close, then this means that the flares were dropped at a
close distance behind the mountain and not 70-80 miles.

Your thoughts.


Regards,

Barry Taylor








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   Mar > Mar 22

                Re: Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices? -

From: Barry Taylor <stingray.nul>
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 11:18:59 +1100
Fwd Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 10:55:44 -0500
Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices? -


>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 11:31:40 -0500
>Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices?

>From: Barry Taylor <stingray.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 18:21:04 +1100
>Subject: Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices?

Hello List members,

Thank you for your comments.

Bruce said:

>I also wonder about the accuracy of some of your suggestions
>as to how to make and ignite gas bag balloons.

After retrieving one of the hoax devices that fell to ground,
one with the second firelighter attached below by wire (a
double), I was able to study the construction details. The type
of wire the hoop was made from was a high tensile plastic coated
wire. Enquiries around town to all the craft supply shops,
hardware stores and auto electricians, concluded that the wire
was brought in from out of town because no one carried or had
even seen this type of wire.

On 1st April 1998, I was skywatching in a dark location near the
Clarence River north of town. I saw a car stop some 100 yards
away. They (two persons) left their headlights on and were
moving around in front of the car doing something. This caught
my attention. I thought they were changing a front tyre. They
lit a flame device similar to a hand held gas torch. Suddenly
one of the hoax devices lifted into the air from their position.
I got my video camera out of the car and began to video the
device as it quickly gained altitude. I had witnessed the
launching of one of these devices. The car quickly turned around
to speed off in the opposite direction. I have this footage on
my "UFO Down-Under" video.

Stuart Miller said... >Firstly, there were many sightings of the
Lights well before the >March '97 sighting. The vast majority of
these went unnoticed >by the population of Phoenix. So there
wouldn't have been >much point to them really if they were
hoaxes.

The decade of the 90's was a period of high UFO activity around
the world. The increase of hoax type devices, or increased flare
dropping in the Phoenix area may have a direct relationship to
high UFO activity. As I have suggested in my article, the
launching of hoax devices (or excessive dropping of flares) was
not for the sake of the public, but could be for the purpose of
keeping the UFO away from populated areas.

If you draw a graph of frequency of UFO reports (other then
flares) then the frequency of flare activity, you may find a
direct relationship in their increase and decrease over a period
of time. I found this to be the case here. The peak period of
flare type activity in the Phoenix area during the latter half
of the '90's would also be a time of high UFO activity. The UFO
"V" craft witnessed by Tim Ley and family is just the type of
object "they" do not want you to see. I too have seen UFO "V"
formations of 5 and 7 'discs' just 50ft away. I was able to see
the surface of the golden yellow illumination and draw/describe
it in great detail.

If this is true, than you should find that over the last four
years, the flare activity has all but ceased. It would be worth
while checking this.

>Second point, you talk about these hoax lights flickering.

Have another look at the footage Stuart, they do flicker. The
flickering is also reported by witnesses.

>...and their spectral make up was one unknown to mankind,
>according to Dilettoso.

I contacted Dilettoso around 4 years ago after hearing about the
DOS program he was using to do the spectral analysis. I sent
several images of the Hoax Device I had taken here. Asked him to
test to see if they were the same or similar to the Phoenix
Lights. I received no reply, even after a couple more attempts
for result.

Question for Bruce Maccabee in following email.


Regards,

Barry Taylor








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   Mar > Mar 22

             Re: Scientist Creates Roswell UFO Metal - Friedman

From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul>
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 21:50:22 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 11:01:50 -0500
Subject: Re: Scientist Creates Roswell UFO Metal - Friedman


>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 02:05:22 -0800
>Subject: Re: Scientist Creates Roswell UFO Metal

>>From: Josh Crockett <thirdeyeching.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 19:54:06 EST
>>Subject: Scientist Creates Roswell UFO Metal

<snip>

>>http://www.discover.com/issues/apr-04/features/glassy-metals/?page=2

>Now, this is really interesting!

>Sadly, the Discover article online cuts you off after the first
>page. They want you to subscribe for the rest of it.

>Here's a page about Dr. Johnson at Caltech:

>http://www.aph.caltech.edu/people/johnson_w.html

>Note the top left image at bottom of page, the one with the
>purple oval representing Glassy Alloys.

>The Strength (scaled upwards on the left) is superior to steels
>and even titanium alloys! That's simply amazing in itself, but
>there's more..

>Elasticity, the ability to bend and reform usually missing from
>hard materials is also very high, about the same as polymers
>like nylon, Teflon etc. (at least that's what I think of for
>polymers.)

>Combine the two, and we have a near miracle coming out of
>materials science.

>Yes, it does sound like something out of UFO stories. Kinda
>makes you wonder. If all this holds true, aircraft and military
>applications just leap out of the ground.

>Here's another site I found:

>http://www.liquidmetal.com/news/dsp.news.070502.asp

<snip>

The Discovery article is fascinating. The kicker about the new
materials is that they are expensive to produce... about $15.00
per pound. But they are being used for special applications.
Reference is made to a website:

http://www.iquidmetal.com


Stan Friedman

Just back from the Gettysburg Paranormal Conference, well staged
by Rick Fisher.








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   Mar > Mar 22

                           UFO*BC Updates 03-21-04

From: David Pengilly <davidpengilly.nul>
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 21:20:35 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 11:05:36 -0500
Subject: UFO*BC Updates 03-21-04



1)http://www.ufobc.ca/yukon/n-canol-abd/index.htm

- "Abduction on the North Canol Road"
- Don't miss this Yukon case!
- Look closely at those hands!
- Another superb case from researcher Martin Jasek

2) http://www.ufobc.ca/Events/index.htm

- Peter Davenport lecturing in Vancouver!
- Saturday, April 3, 2004 at 7:00 PM
- Video footage of suspected UFOs!
- A human mutilation case?
- "Star Dreams" Crop Circle DVD on sale!

3) http://www.ufobc.ca/Reports/ufoenigma1.htm

- "The UFO Enigma" - Part 1 and 2
- An article from the late Max Edwards
- Originally printed in The Victorian newspaper

4) http://www.ufobc.ca/Supernatural/Cropcircles/cccrnnews.htm

- latest news from the Canadian Crop Circle Research Network
- Nancy Talbott's long awaited XRD study!

5) http://www.ufobc.ca/Sightings/recent.htm

- Recently Reported BC Sightings
- With the help of NUFORC and HBCC UFO

6) http://www.ufobc.ca/Fern/cattlereports.htm

- 2 new Fern Belzil Mutilation Reports
- A lamb mutilation in Derwent, Alberta
- An elk mutilation in Maidstone, Saskatchewan

7) http://www.ufobc.ca/Reports/Collection/index.htm

- "The Collison Collection"
- Over 20 historical newspaper articles added
- Some very interesting reading!

8) http://www.ufobc.ca/Supernatural/Forteana/ravens.htm

- "A Strange Encounter With Ravens"
- Updated with superb graphic from Director Gord Heath


Dave Pengilly
UFO*BC







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   Mar > Mar 22

                           Ottawa Onatrio Fireball

From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO <hbccufo.nul>
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 21:20:58 -0800
Fwd Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 11:07:04 -0500
Subject: Ottawa Onatrio Fireball


Ottawa, Onatrio Fireball

Date: March 21, 2004
Time:  7:37 p.m.

Two witnesses driving on Rosebella street with my son, between
Conroy road and Bank, going towards Bank, I saw a blue green
fireball with a trail behind, going almost as fast as a shooting
star. It looked like going down to earth in a South-West
direction, I lost it behind the houses, awaiting a big crashing
noise but nothing at all. I first saw It at about the same
altitude as commercial planes usually fly when they are on
approach to the Airport, it happened so quickly that it is
really hard to be precise with the altitude but this is what I
remember. I decided to go to the back road of Ottawa Airport
since the ball was seen going toward it. No sign of the event
but a few cars driving around the airport in the same direction.
I'm sure lot of people saw it, this is a very clear night,
crystal clear with a few light clouds floating quickly pushed by
the strong wind. I'm sure the Airport radar caught it and the
Canadian Forces station Letrim too, these two being very close
from the place we were at the moment. Two big commercial
airplanes size of a Airbus 320 arrived at the moment I was on
the airport back road Letrim and there were some more on
approach from a distance.


Thank you to the witness for the report.

Brian Vike
Director HBCC UFO Research
Home - Phone 250 845 2189
email: hbccufo.nul
Website: http://www.hbccufo.com








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                      Saskatoon Saskatchewan - 03-21-04

From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO <hbccufo.nul>
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 21:36:03 -0800
Fwd Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 11:09:50 -0500
Subject: Saskatoon Saskatchewan - 03-21-04


Saskatoon SK (Southwest of Saskatoon)

Date:  March 21, 2004
Time:  8:34 p.m. CST

Shape of objects: unknown (bright flash of light)
Full Description of event/sighting:

I'm not sure whether this classifies as a UFO or not, but I'd
like to send in a short report on the chance that others saw
this and report it, too.

I happened to be looking out our living room window just after
8:30 this evening, when I saw a brilliant flash of blue-white
light. My view was to the southwest, and the entire southwestern
sky lit up. A good portion of the sky was lit up, well above the
horizon. The houses and trees across the street were
silhouetted. I've often watched summer thunderstorms approach
our city at night, and tonight's flash was easily many times
brighter than any lightning flash I've seen. I took a closer
look outside and could clearly see stars and the last of the
twilight from sunset an hour and 10 minutes earlier. There was
not a cloud in the sky, although infrared satellite imagery
currently (10:30 p.m.) shows light cloud. I checked my watch
after scanning the sky for about a minute and saw that the time
was just approaching 8:35.

About 10 minutes after the event, I saw a neighbor walking along
the sidewalk in front of our house. He seemed to be gazing at
the sky toward the southwest, but he disappeared down the street
before I could go and talk to him.

There is a cellular telephone tower and a hydro substation, both
about 3 km away, in the general direction that I saw the flash.
I have seen nothing on this evening's news to indicate that they
were involved in any mishap. There is nothing on the Environment
Canada web site to indicate a lightning strike. Perhaps it was a
meteor. I once saw a meteor create a brilliant flash in daylight
when I was a child, and tonight's event was somewhat similar.
Whatever it was, it was really bright.

Thank you to the witness for the report.


Brian Vike
Director HBCC UFO Research
Home - Phone 250 845 2189
email: hbccufo.nul
Website: http://www.hbccufo.com








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   Mar > Mar 22

                  Press Release - Paradigm Research Group -

From: Stephen Bassett <ParadigmRG.nul>
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 04:02:09 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 11:34:36 -0500
Subject: Press Release - Paradigm Research Group -


PRG
Paradigm Research Group

Media Announcement
March 22, 2004

Washington, DC - The failure to properly report and investigate
extraterrestrial-related phenomena and the politics of
disclosure and cover-up was the greatest failure of journalism
in the 20th Century. One of the goals of the X-Conference
scheduled for the weekend of April 16-18 at the Hilton
Gaithersburg is to help correct that deficiency. Full
information about the conference is found at:

http://www.x-conference.com

Press passes are available providing access to
all presentations and events (22 press passes have been issued
to date). Two media rooms will be provided for on-site speaker
interviews throughout the weekend.

Leading up to the conference the following speakers are
available for interviews about their presentations:

Stephen Bassett: X-Conference/Politics of Disclosure
Dr. William Birnes: Col. Philip J. Corso
Grant Cameron: U.S. Presidents and the Politics Disclosure
Philip Corso, Jr: Col.Philip J. Corso, Sr.
Paul Davids: Making of the Movie Roswell
Richard Dolan: UFOs and the National Security State
Ann Druffel: Tragic Story of Dr. James McDonald
Stanton Friedman: UFOs: Cosmic Watergate/Debunking the Debunkers
Timothy Good: Beyond Top Secret/Extraordinary Cases
Dr. Seven Greer: History of the Disclosure Project/Secrecy is Terrorism
Paola Leopizzi Harris: Col. Philip J. Corso and Monsignor Corrado Balducci
William Hamilton: Area 51/Case for Reverse Engineering
Richard C. Hoagland: Mars Exoarcheology and NASA's Dilemma
Terry Hansen: News Media Complicity in the UFO Cover-up
Linda Moulton Howe: Extraterrestrial Craft Retrievals and Evidence
Dr. Scott Jones: Nexus of Exopolitics and Global Peace
Jim Marrs: Rule by Secrecy/Remote Viewing
Dr. Bruce Maccabee: UFO/FBI Connection/1952 Washington, DC Sightings
Nick Pope: United Kingdom's "Blue Book" study/the UK UFO project
Peter Robbins: Strange Story of Defense Secretary James Forrestal
Dr. Michael Salla: Emerging Field of Exopolitics
Dr. Richard Sauder: An Underground Empire of Military Bases
Dr. Thomas Van Flandern: Mars Exoarcheology
Dr. Robert Wood/Ryan Wood: MJ-12 Documents/Authenticating the Documents

These speakers have between them over 200 years of research
and/or activism and have published over 60 books. For complete
speaker bios and expanded topic information see the [Speakers]
and [Program] sections at: www.x-conference.com.

The X-Conference is open to the public.

To schedule a television or radio interview with an X-Conference
speaker please contact:
Stephen Bassett: 202-431-2459
ParadigmRG.nul



________________________________________________________

Paradigm Research Group
E-mail: ParadigmRG.nul
URL: www.paradigmclock.com
Cell: 202-431-2459
4938 Hampden Lane, #161
Bethesda, MD 20814
_________________________________________________________

1st Annual Exopolitics Expo - The X-Conference
Hilton Washington DC North/Gaithersburg - April 16-18, 2004
www.x-conference.com









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              Re: Aliens out there? Please Come To The Rescue -

From: Aaron P. LeClair <force.nul>
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 05:50:53 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 11:37:29 -0500
Subject: Re: Aliens out there? Please Come To The Rescue -


>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 04:54:39 -0800
>Subject: Aliens out there? Please Come To The Rescue

>Source: The Scotsman

>http://news.scotsman.com/opinion.cfm?id=323022004

>Sat 20 Mar 2004

>Aliens out there? Please come to the rescue
>by
>Albert Morris

<snip>

>As a supporter of galactic amity, I still hope that, one day,
>some outer space visitants will land on earth and stop the
>inhabitants from tearing themselves and the planet to pieces The
>fact that remedial aliens could resemble man-sized tadpoles with
>limbs, would not disguise the fact that they could be new Labour
>in political outlook and, therefore, virtual Tories. They would,
>I am certain, expand and improve global public services, for the
>many, not the few, and, in a very real sense, create a Swedish
>welfare state version of Utopia.

>Non-smokers, they would be caring and compassionate, devoted to
>free health care, community arts, family planning, race
>relations, further education and pensioners.

>They would favour theatre workshops and social-inclusion
>discussion and outreach groups. In religious matters, they would
>initiate an ongoing and open-ended dialogue in the context of
>the day and age.

>Pie in the sky? I hope not. All I say is that this explosive
>planet, with its imploding civilisation, needs urgent visionary
>intervention. Don't desert us, UFOs. Have a wine gum. If you
>want one word from us, written in crop circles or otherwise, it
>is, "help".

When faced with this sort of topic, I tend to mostly  think of
the good things that could come from it. However, in reading
this, for whatever reason, I became aware of a worrisome
possibilty.

I worry that open contact with another intelligent race, might
make humans more destructive. We might then say "The aliens
will fix it!" and then go about some of our destructive ways,
only with better tools given to us by Zork our friendly alien.

Having aliens hold our hands doesn't seem the best way to grow.
We tend to take for granted what we are given, and cherish more
what we've earned.

Just a new worry of mine.

I'm all for getting an alien's help, this idea just popped in my
mind, and I am now wondering if maybe that is why aliens don't
make more of an open contact. They might know not to give fire
to a baby maybe?









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   Mar > Mar 22

              Chupacabras Exsanguinates Hens In San Ramon Costa

From: Scott Corrales <lornis1.nul>
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 07:11:37 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 11:41:07 -0500
Subject: Chupacabras Exsanguinates Hens In San Ramon Costa



INEXPLICATA
The Journal of Hispanic Ufology
March 22, 2003


Source: Diario Extra - San Jose de Costa Rica

http://www.diarioextra.com/2004/marzo/18/sucesos01.shtml

Thursday, March 18, 2004


Chupacabras Exsanguinates Hens In San Ramon

Photos Graciela Sol=EDs

Several groups of dead hens were bled dry in the backyard of the
Rodriguez household.

A nocturnal Chupacabras attack took place last Tuesday night in
a chicken coop owned by Gonzalo Rodriguez of San Juan de San
Ramon, Ajuela Province, Costa Rica.

Nearly 20 beautiful, plump hens - the type that takes pide in
laying large eggs - were found dead and without a trace of
blood, bearing twin puncture marks on their backs. The birds
were completely dry.

It was late at night when Rodriguez heard strange noises and a
ruckus coming from the henhouse on his property - a commotion
that was far from being normal. He decided to send his son to
check with a flashlight to make sure thieves weren't at work.

The youth obeyed his father and flashlight in hand approached
the large henhouse stealthily, becoming terrified upon seeing a
strange black animal, standing some 40 cm. tall and resembling a
small dog with a long tail and standing on two legs. He recalls,
among what little he was able to see through the flashlight's
beam, that the animal had a very long tongue. Upon seeing the
light, the creature fled into the vegetation, skillfully leaping
over a wall.

An inspection of the henhouse revealed that twenty hens had been
slain. Police authorities of the nearby town of San Ramon were
notified and officer Marcos Hernandez reported to the scene to
corroborate not only Gonzalo Rodriguez's account, but the
testimony of frightened neighbors.

The officer was able to ascertain that several "bunches" of dead
hens lay near the property's fence. The birds were whole and the
only sign of damage to them were the two small holes on its
back, through which it is presumed that the strange assailant
drove its fangs to remove or suck their blood.

Witnesses immediately ascribed the blame for the chicken
slayings to the legendary, sinister and mysterious creature
known throughout Mesoamerica as the Chupacabras.

What occurred two nights ago at the Rodriguez henhouse was
immediately associated with an earlier, similar event, in which
dead sheep had been found with the same characteristics: twin
puncture marks on their necks or back and not a single drop of
blood.

Two days ago, at the same site and to eliminate any questions,
Luis Morun and Luis Angulo, neighbors of the Rodriguez family,
butchered each of the animals to insure that the birds were
totally dry and without a drop of blood.

Neighbors have rejected the possibility that a weasel, wolf or
hen-killing predator such as a fox could be involved. What
startled them most is that formerly one or two hens would
vanish - now twenty did so at the same time.

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

Translation (C) 2004 Scott Corrales IHU
Special thanks to Gloria Coluchi








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   Mar > Mar 22

                         Wrexham UK Science Festival

From: Chris Parr <cparr.nul>
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 13:54:18 -0000
Fwd Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 11:42:57 -0500
Subject: Wrexham UK Science Festival


The 2004 Wrexham Science Festival has once again welcomed the
regions X-FILES investigators and a Paranormal Mini Conference
will be held as part of the festival on Saturday 27th March.

The Parascience organisation make a significant contribution to
the conference and the speaker list is as follows

Ann Whinsper - Hunter and the Haunted
A unique insight to the psychology of the paranormal.

Richard Holland - Paranormal Tales of North Wales.

Steve Parsons - Orbs or a load of balls?
An assessment of paranormal experiences and scientific credibility.

Dave Sadler - Ufos over North Wales - A Stealthy return? Updates
on the recent Black Triangle ufo wave and the New Brighton UFO
photograph which may replace the Trent 1950 photographs as the
most definitive photographic evidence of UFO visitation.

All speakers are scheduled for one hour and the event is free.

for further information

http://www.wrexhamsf.com

Dave Sadler
http://wwww.parascience.org.uk








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   Mar > Mar 22

                        Argentine Monte Maiz Phantom

From: Scott Corrales <lornis1.nul>
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 08:55:38 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 11:46:04 -0500
Subject: Argentine Monte Maiz Phantom



SOURCE: La Manana de Cordoba (digital)
DATE: March 22, 2004

Argentina: The Monte Maiz Phantom

[Note: students of ufology may recognize Monte Ma=EDz as the scene
of the Eugenio Douglass CE3K some 40 years ago, one of the most
spectacular cases in South American saucer lore. There are
certain points of contact between the following story and
"Springheel Jack" events  - SC]

A silhouette of a man who walks on rooftops, drags heavy chains
and makes strange noises turned into a disquieting "phantom"
that has made residents of Monte Ma=EDz restless. As is common in
these cases, the accounts of those who claim having seen or
heard this ghostly shade spread by word of mouth and eventually
reach local police authorities without the persons who claim
having undergone the experience ever being identified. Opinions
on the phantom are diametrically opposed, since some claim
having seen "a figure standing over 2 meters tall, dressed in
black and with spectacular agility" while others say it's all
imagination. Journalist Carlos Maldoni has not hesitated to say
that the culprit "is a foolish or stupid person in disguise,
with a face mask, red eyes and white cape over his shoulders,
who ventures out at night to terrify women living alone." Police
authorities, in any event, are patrolling the streets and
listening to the stories of the terrified residents.

The peace of this 9000 inhabitant locality in the department of
Union was interrupted in the past three weeks by a strange
creature who wanders the night to terrify residents. It is seen
in outlying neighborhoods close to the city limits, where people
wait for sunset to shut themselves in their homes under lock and
key.

The residents call it "the phantom". Those who have seen it say
that it is a young person, very tall and slim, with red eyes. It
dresses in white, sometimes black and others grey. Always wears
a hat and covers its face with a mask or hood.

The sounds on the rooftops begin after 21:00 hours, as do the
calls to the police. Residents claim that it walks on the roof,
shuffles and runs, drags chains, scratches at windows and bangs
at doors. It doesn't speak or yell - it has only been heard to
laugh in dark or whistle; some claim having heard it imitate the
howling of a dog.

One of the characteristics that locals coincide on it the
creature's agility. "They say it runs swiftly and jumps over
barbed wire fencing and walls without touching them," according
to concerned neighbors. Its agility has made law enforcement's
tasks all the harder, since the person runs and vanishes into
the pasturelands surrounding the town. Police say it appears to
have no intention to commit burglary - only to frighten. "It's a
sick person that's causing residents of Monte Maiz to lose their
sleep," said Sheriff Jorge Vivas.

The sheriff added: "Given its m.o., we suspect [the phantom] to
be two youths with a thorough knowledge of the town and the
community. [the phantom] moves very quickly and can be in two
different neighborhoods within minutes. It knows which homes to
upset and chooses those with single women."

In Monte Ma=EDz the popular imagination is fed hourly with a new
story and a different version of the events. There is talk of a
phantom, supernatural doings and special powers are ascribed to
the person. The lack of answers from the police has fed the
legend.

Police units scoured the area at night and reconnoitered the
outlying neighboirhoods. Since the police force is small, they
have had collaboration from municipal workers and volunteer
firemen. Neighborhood watch groups have also formed to spend the
nights awake waiting for "the phantom" to appear. They sally
forth with clubs and some weapons, which is of concern to
policement. They spend the nights awake defending their homes.

Eyewitness accounts follow.

Ivana Molina: "I went out to the yard and saw a man dancing,
whistling and slapping his hands. The neighbors heard similar
noises. The next day, I went out the next day and the same man
tried to grab me. I ran into the house and phone de police. It
banged on our bathroom window and wrote "mueres" (you will die)
with its finger.

Oscar Gonzalez: "I was standing in the yard and saw a shadow
walking along. I could see its red eyes. We went out with
another fellow to find it and [the phantom] jumped into the
neighbor's yard. It was dressed in white. On the following day
it whistled at us again. We went out to chase it and it
vanished.

Veronica Bertrando: "My husband saw it as it crossed the patio.
He says it was dressed in grey with a hood over its head. When
it went by, the dog barked, my husband went outside and it took
off running. He tried to find it but couldn't find it. [The
phantom] hides in such a way that no one can find it."

In a report to Radio Mitre in the city of Buenos Aires, Sheriff
Vivas reported that the alleged phantom has the following
characteristics:

-1.8 to 1.9 mters tall
-dresses in black
-white face (possibily a mask)
-black hat (some describe it as a gaucho hat)
-movements are generally silent
-extreme agility: jumps over fences, walls and climbs up trees
 with ease
-normally appears between 21:30 and 03:00 hours

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

Translation (C) 2004 Scott Corrales
Institute of Hispanic Ufology (IHU)
Special thanks to Christian Quintero, Planeta UFO.








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   Mar > Mar 22

             Re: Jerry Black To Polygraph Bruce Maccabee - Young

From: Kenny Young <ufo.nul>
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 08:58:02 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 11:47:48 -0500
Subject: Re: Jerry Black To Polygraph Bruce Maccabee - Young


>From: Robert Gates <RGates8254.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 02:45:07 EST
>Subject: Re: Jerry Black To Polygraph Bruce Maccabee

>Some thoughts come to mind. As I recall it was recently
>mentioned that Ed Walters passed one Polygraph, had a surprise
>test sprung on him and passed that, plus passed a voice stress
>test. So Ed Walters, the person actually claiming to have
>seen/photographed a UFO has passed polygraph testing, yet
>apparently Jerry Black wants the investigator to be polygraphed
>as well.

>Brings to mind interesting possibilities. If you investigated a
>UFO case, conclude it was a real UFO, is it warranted that
>somebody should demand that you be polygraphed as well to answer
>people who disagree with your investigation? Just a thought


Robert;

In case you weren't aware, self-sponsored polygraph tests aren't
valid. I think it was already said that the legitimate test Ed
Walters was to have taken, he never showed up for.

Your second point also is posed as if you were unaware of the
circumstances of this case. J. Black's focus is not a simple
disagreement on the investigative outcome but to explore the
potential for investigator/claimant financial collaboration and
how such a relationship has effected the investigation.

I'm not too encouraged from all the fluff offered by many of the
UFO UpDates list folks. If this were a case of Remote Viewing,
this gullible lot would all be in favor (some less conscious
persons perhaps while foaming at the mouth).. While Remote
Viewing is no longer used by govt. agencies as it was deemed
'unreliable,' the polygraph is widely used for job screening and
security. It is a legitimate process, despite what the
unconscious pronounce.


 - KY








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             Re: Jerry Black To Polygraph Bruce Maccabee - Clark

From: Jerome Clark <jkclark.nul>
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 08:30:39 -0600
Fwd Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 11:48:41 -0500
Subject: Re: Jerry Black To Polygraph Bruce Maccabee - Clark


>From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 20:16:18 -0700
>Subject: Re: Jerry Black To Polygraph Bruce Maccabee

>>From: Kenny Young <ufo.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 11:57:14 -0500
>>Subject: Re: Jerry Black To Polygraph Bruce Maccabee

>>>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark.nul>
>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 13:18:24 -0600
>>>Subject: Re: Jerry Black To Polygraph Bruce Maccabee


Jim and Listfolk,

>This whole thing is nuts, and neither test will prove a thing.
>Instead of studying the UFO phenomenon, we're studying each
>other's brains. Saucer Smear's gonna have a field day with this.
>Bruce: As one of your fiercest critics on Gulf Breeze, I can
>tell you, you have nothing to prove to me, your honesty has
>never been an issue, period. Jerry, I used to admire you for
>your turnaround on the Walton case, but I thought maybe you'd
>have learned your lesson by now. Everyone: have things gotten so
>slow in the skies that we have to resort to this kind of thing
>for idle entertainment?

I couldn't have said it better myself. Amen, brother.


Jerry Clark








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                         Is The UFO Truth In Aztec?

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 07:15:41 -0800
Fwd Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 11:50:55 -0500
Subject: Is The UFO Truth In Aztec?



Source: The Durango Herald - Clorado

http://durangoherald.com/asp-bin/article_generation.asp?article_type=news&articl
e_path=/news/04/news040321_2.htm

March 21, 2004

Symposium: Is The UFO Truth In Aztec?

By Dale Rodebaugh
Herald Staff Writer

AZTEC, N.M. - True believers and the curious gathered here this
weekend for the seventh annual Aztec UFO Symposium to hear the
latest information on the crash - or landing, according to some
- of an unidentified flying object north of here in 1948.

"There is no smoking gun, but a lot of interesting documents
about what happened here," Scott Ramsey said before his
presentation Saturday. "I'm no evangelist. I just present the
facts and let people make up their minds."

Ramsey, the vice president of a wire company in Charlotte, N.C.,
has been investigating the March 25, 1948, incident near here
since 1990. Ramsey's business travels bring him to the Four
Corners every six to eight weeks.

According to the standard account of the 1948 incident, a
saucer-shaped spaceship about 100 feet in diameter crashed in
Hart Canyon 12 miles northeast of here about 6 a.m. Military
personnel and law-enforcement officers removed 16 dead humanoids
from the craft and then hauled it away.

UFO investigators say the government clammed up immediately,
leaving the public to speculate and theorize about what - if
anything - happened.

Theorists wasted little time. The purported Aztec/alien
connection first was revealed in 1950 in Behind the Flying
Saucers written by journalist and columnist Frank Scully.

It has been kept alive since by investigators of the same
incident or similar New Mexico happenings in Roswell and the
Plains of San Augustin west of Socorro in 1947 and Farmington in
1950.

Robert Chilcoat, of Kingman, Ariz., is investigating a UFO
incident there in 1953.

"The incident, which was kind of similar, was hushed up and the
UFO was taken to an Air Force testing grounds north of Las
Vegas," Chilcoat said. "I've been researching the incident for
about 10 years."

Ramsey said the government gave a lot of importance to the Aztec
incident and did a lot of investigation, but labeled its
findings as classified information. Ramsey said he is gaining
access to some of the documents and has interviewed witnesses
and people involved in the original investigation, including an
Air Force source.

About 200 people, military personnel and scientists, were
involved in the investigation, Ramsey said. They were sworn to
secrecy. Military men were threatened with the loss of their
pension or time in the brig, Ramsey said.

Ramsey said he has spent $200,000 of his own money in visiting
28 states in search of supporting documents or testimony about
the Aztec incident.

"I've pretty much exhausted my resources here," Ramsey said.
"Old-timers are dying left and right. I'm down to second- and
third-hand witnesses."

Ramsey expects to publish his own book on the Aztec UFO next
year.

Art Campbell, an investigator of a purported UFO crash on the
Plains of San Augustin, was scheduled to talk about his work
Saturday afternoon. Photos of artifacts that Campbell says he
found at the crash site, including some narrow shoe soles, were
on exhibit.

Friends of the Aztec Public Library sponsors the symposiums,
which are fund-raisers for the organization and the construction
of a new $2 million, 11,000-square-foot library.

Internet publicity about the symposiums prompted school-children
art contests in eight U.S. states and Israel this year, said
Librarian Leanne Hathcock. Examples of the children's work were
on exhibit in the foyer of Koogler Middle School where the
symposium is being held.

Among other topics on the symposium's three-day agenda are
contacts with extraterrestrials, government cover-up of UFO
reports, crop circles and the connections between
extraterrestrials and indigenous cultures. The symposium ends
today.










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   Mar > Mar 22

                      Tycoon Funds Hunt For Alien Life

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 11:53:01 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 11:53:01 -0500
Subject: Tycoon Funds Hunt For Alien Life




Source: BBC OnLine

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/3556873.stm

22 March, 2004


Tycoon Funds Hunt For Alien Life

Paul Allen, the co-founder of software titan Microsoft, is
ploughing a slice of his fortune into the search for life on
other planets.

Mr Allen is donating $13.5m to the California-based Seti
Institute.

The money will be used to create a radio telescope array
comprising more than 200 dishes which will measure signals from
space.

"It will expand our understanding of how the Universe was
formed," says Mr Allen, a keen fan of science fiction.

Space exploration has seen renewed interest recently with the
Nasa Mars rovers and President George W Bush's outline plans for
an ambitious space initiative.

A world of riches

Funding the search for ET is a drop in the ocean for Mr Allen,
whose estimated worth is $36bn.

It was Mr Allen who persuaded Bill Gates to drop out of Harvard
and join him in creating Microsoft in 1975. He then quit full-
time at Microsoft in 1983 after being diagnosed with Hodgkin's
disease.

But that hasn't stunted his mental and entrepreneurial capacity.
His venture capital firm, Vulcan Ventures, has been one of the
biggest funders of the internet age.

And Mr Allen has his own ever-growing list of internet and
entertainment based start-ups, comprising stakes in more than
140 firms.








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                Re: Jerry Black To Polygraph Bruce Maccabee -

From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais.nul>
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 18:02:32 +0100
Fwd Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 08:48:07 -0500
Subject: Re: Jerry Black To Polygraph Bruce Maccabee -


>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
>To:  ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 14:50:57 -0800
>Subject: Re: Jerry Black To Polygraph Bruce Maccabee

>>From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 18:24:13 +0100
>>Subject: Re: Jerry Black To Polygraph Bruce Maccabee

>>To Kenny Young  and All,

>>I don't think that Bruce Maccabee needed to accept that at all,
>>but since he has the elegance to do it, Jerry Black should take
>>it too, right after him, it seems to me.

>>Under control by independant witnesses.

>>Anyway, it will just prove nothing.

>>I agree with Joachim Koch that this Mr Black should be
>>challenged. Could anyone give us some information about who he
>>is?

>Forgive my extremely pOOvre (poor) understanding of these highly
>exciting matters.

>For the last 8 or 10 hours or so, I was treated to the never-
>ending renditions of electrical buzzers, lights, flashers, and
>all associated whukku until my shift simply ended.

Larry

I am intrigued by your answer. Could you explain a little more?

Gildas Bourdais








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                Re: Jerry Black To Polygraph Bruce Maccabee -

From: Steven Kaeser <steve.nul>
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 12:32:02 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 08:49:41 -0500
Subject: Re: Jerry Black To Polygraph Bruce Maccabee -


Kenny,

This discussion isn't going to be resolved by further
discussion, but with that said.....

>From: Kenny Young <ufo.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 08:58:02 -0500
>Subject: Re: Jerry Black To Polygraph Bruce Maccabee

<snip>

In response to Robert, Kenny wrote:

>In case you weren't aware, self-sponsored polygraph tests aren't
>valid. I think it was already said that the legitimate test Ed
>Walters was to have taken, he never showed up for.

Actually, all polygraphs are sponsored by someone and are about
as reliable as the arbitron ratings. If one side in a legal
dispute has the right to promote a polygraph examination to
prove its point, then the other side has that same right to
prove their point of view. I worked at a retail outlet that
decided to test the polygraph system and brought in a specialist
to solve a crime that never actually occured. Of course,
following the testing of all employees the person giving the
test had "identified" the thief, and in actuality identified
flaws in the polygraph process. It may be your opinion that one
test was more valid than another because of sponsorship, but
that really doesn't make one more accurate than the other.

>Your second point also is posed as if you were unaware of the
>circumstances of this case. J. Black's focus is not a simple
>disagreement on the investigative outcome but to explore the
>potential for investigator/claimant financial collaboration and
>how such a relationship has effected the investigation.

However, the "potential for investigator/claimant financial
collaboration" JB appears to uncovered is based on annecdotal
innuendo. You wouldn't expect to take this before a jury based
on this, would you?

>I'm not too encouraged from all the fluff offered by many of the
>UFO UpDates list folks. If this were a case of Remote Viewing,
>this gullible lot would all be in favor (some less conscious
>persons perhaps while foaming at the mouth).. While Remote
>Viewing is no longer used by govt. agencies as it was deemed
>'unreliable,' the polygraph is widely used for job screening and
>security. It is a legitimate process, despite what the
>unconscious pronounce.

Interesting. The Federal Government halted funding of Remote
Viewing because its accuracy was only about 35%. Hmmmmmmmm.
That's actually not all that bad given the scope of what they
were doing. Your statement is accurate if you take the
Government statements literally, but while I'm not a
conspiratorialist I really take the Government's comments on
most things with a grain of salt.

As far as the polygraph is concerned, it's a tool that meets a
need for some. I've taken them for job employment and hated it,
but there's often not much you can do. If you read agency
reports on this subject, I think you'll find that there are
often better ways of identifying problem employees, but many in
the enforcement end are wedded to the polygraph process It may
be a legitamate process, but that doesn't speak directly to its
accuracy and propriety.








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                     UFO over the River Plate Argentina

From: Scott Corrales <lornis1.nul>
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 12:46:39 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 08:51:14 -0500
Subject: UFO over the River Plate Argentina


SOURCE: http://www.tabascohoy.com.mx/th/nuevo/notas/notas.php?nid=48102

DATE: March 22, 2004

Argentina: UFO Over The River Plate

An unidentified flying object that "shone and swirled" hovered
for a few minutes on the early hours of Monday morning over the
waters of the River Plate (Rio de la Plata) not far from this
city, according to the Argentinean Air Force (AAF) based on
several accounts from eyewitnesses who phoned in their reports.

Commodore Guillermo Losada, the press officer of said force,
underlined that "several phone calls" were received which
alerted the rpresence of this UFO. He added that its existence
could not be officialy confirmed "through the air traffic
controllers (of the metropolitan airport) or through any pilot
testimony" since there were no flights in the vicinity at the
time.

"There has apparently been some sort of sighting, but we cannot
confirm the type of object seen," added Losada in a press
conference.

Losada noted that the eyewitness testimony "drew our attention"
and added that "one must never dismiss out of hand what might
prove to be a phenomenon worthy of study."

"The locals coincided in that it was a shining, swirling flying
object that remained thus for several minutes before vanishing,"
added the spokesman.

============================================================

Translation (C) 2004  Institute of Hispanic Ufology
Special thanks to Gloria Coluchi







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                   Jerry Black's Reply To Conners & Clark

From: Jerry Black <gulfbreezeinfo.nul>
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 11:18:40 -0800 (PST)
Fwd Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 08:52:36 -0500
Subject: Jerry Black's Reply To Conners & Clark


March 22, 2004


Ms. Wendy Connors and Mr. Jerome Clark,

I accept your idea to receive psychological evaluation. I will
accept your offer to take the psychological evaluation under the
same terms given to Mr. Bruce Maccabee for the polygraph test.

Please find a local psychologist of your choosing, and pre-pay
for each session in advance, and then have the office call me to
set up the appointment.

I will attend as many visits that he or she feels necessary, as
long as you pay for each visit in advance.

Copies of the results will be given to both you and I. You have
my permission to place the results on the Internet.

I await your response.

--Jerry Black









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                 Re: Tycoon Funds Hunt For Alien Life - Hall

From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 19:22:27 +0000
Fwd Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 08:53:57 -0500
Subject: Re: Tycoon Funds Hunt For Alien Life - Hall


>From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>To: - UFO UpDates Subscribers -
>Subject: UFO UpDate: Tycoon Funds Hunt For Alien Life
>Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 11:53:01 -0500

>Source: BBC OnLine

>http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/3556873.stm

>22 March, 2004

>Tycoon Funds Hunt For Alien Life

>Paul Allen, the co-founder of software titan Microsoft, is
>ploughing a slice of his fortune into the search for life on
>other planets.

>Mr Allen is donating $13.5m to the California-based Seti
>Institute.

>The money will be used to create a radio telescope array
>comprising more than 200 dishes which will measure signals from
>space.

Too bad he doesn't give a lousy $1 million to UFO research. He
would get a far bigger return on his money.

 - Dick










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                              A Velez Farewell

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 15:13:07 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 08:59:54 -0500
Subject: A Velez Farewell


>From: Larry W. Bryant <overtci.nul>
>To: errol.nul
>Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 23:16:15 -0500 (EST)
>Subject: Intruders Foundation Mortellaro Case Statement

>From: IFCentral.nul
>To: undisclosed-recipients:;
>Date: Sat, March 20, 2004 3:09 pm
>Subject: Intruders Foundation - Case Investigation Public Statement

>For Public Release: The James Mortellaro Case

>March 9, 2004

>At any given time the Intruders Foundation simultaneously
>conducts more than a dozen ongoing investigations. It is unusual
>for us to publicly take a position on cases while investigations
>are underway. Such investigations may take years, depending on a
>subject's willingness and proximity to our office, the number of
>individuals involved, and the types of evidence surrounding the
>case. As one would expect, we focus most of our attention on
>cases which present multiple participants, eyewitnesses, and
>physical and/or supporting medical evidence.

>One such case that appeared to meet all of these criteria was
>that of Jim Mortellaro. (Our use of Mr. Mortellaro's real name
>is in no way a violation of his confidentiality as he has
>voluntarily been using his name over the internet and on radio
>broadcasts for a number of years.)

>For some time now the Intruders Foundation has been
>investigating the case of Mr. Mortellaro and seeking
>documentation which he had promised would substantiate the case.

>This case was of great interest because of the alleged medical
>injuries resulting from his abduction in 2001.

>Unfortunately, Mr. Mortellaro has never produced credible
>evidence in support of these claims.
>
>Furthermore, he provided us with two allegedly official
>documents which have proved to be fabrications.
>
>Therefore, Budd Hopkins and the Advisory Committee of the
>Intruders Foundation no longer consider this case worthy of
>investigation.

>Though Mr. Mortellaro may in fact have had abduction experiences
>and may have suffered physical trauma as a result of these
>experiences, his questionable credibility has forced us to
>abandon his case.

>As always, the Intruders Foundation continues to apply a
>detailed, cautious and methodical protocol to the consideration
>and investigation of all potential abduction cases. We thank you
>all for your ongoing interest and support of our work.

>~ Budd Hopkins
>& The Intruders Foundation Advisory Committee

Hello All,

In the tradition of, 'It ain't over till the fat lady sings' -
 the 'fat lady' has now officially been heard from.

Two years ago, for issuing the exact same warning about
Mortellaro and his alleged 'case' I was subjected to a carefully
orchestrated and very public campaign of lies and vilification
by this same character, Mortellaro. I don't take any pride in
what I am about to admit, but I am human and prone to human
weakness, in all candor I must admit taking particular
satisfaction in this little bit of public vindication. Like I
said I'm not proud of that but I wouldn't be completely honest
if I didn't cop to it.

I'm glad that Budd caught the mistake in time and was man enough
to admit it in public. He deserves proper credit for being so
forth coming.

The next time I hope to be vindicated is the day when the "bugs"
themselves end the cover-up by filling the skies with their star
cars.

It would be nice if that day happens within my lifetime.

Which brings me to the real purpose of this post.....

I would like to take this opportunity to announce my retirement
from public involvement in anything 'ufological'. As far as I'm
concerned, it's all up to "Them" now. Only "They" can end the
cover-up once and for all.

No amount of chatter or debate onthe Internet will expedite it
either. It will be when it will be. Until then, this endless and
circular debate will go on unabated and it can do so without
me. I've contributed more than what could have been reasonably
expected from any witness. I walk away clean and with a clear
conscience. 'I done my best, ma!'

Although I will remain subscribed to the UFO UpDates List I will
no longer be participating in the day-to-day of it. The same
goes for my regular spot as a contributor to EBK's Strange
Days... Indeed. I am confident that Victor Viggiani, Alfred
Lehmberg and others will make good use of the vacated time slot
by continuing to educate everyone and raise public awareness
about the UFO phenom. As I have said on many occasions; there is
an urgency to this whole issue that few are aware of. At this
point however, I have not only said all I have to say on the
subject, I have repeated it all ten times over. It was never my
intention to become a 'posterboy' or 'spokesman' for UFO
abduction. I want out.

The AIC (Abduction Information Center) website will remain as a
feature of EBK's 'Virtually Strange Network' for as long as he
wishes it to be. I will continue to update the AIC site and to
collect signatures and coordinate activities for the UN
Petition. The signature count now stands at; 4,355.

Bottom line: I am a witness. I have allowed my self to become
more involved with ufology than I ever wanted to, or intended.
But enough is enough. My almost full-time involvement has
already devoured almost eight years of my life. It's time for me
to get back to my family and to living out my own life in my own
way.

I ask your indulgence for a moment as I need to publicly thank a
few individuals.

One of the things I am most proud of is the friends I have made and
the people that I have been privileged to be associated with over the
years. Listed in no order of importance, they are all near and dear
to me and own a huge piece of my heart, I would like to mention in
particular;

Errol Bruce-Knapp
Greg Sandow
Dick Hall
Debbie Jordon-Kauble
Katharina Wilson
Marty Murray
Mike Woods
Dave (Furry) Furlotte
Victor Viggiani
GT McCoy
Mac Tonnies
Peter Robbins
Budd Hopkins
and many others...

for their unswerving support and friendship over the years.
"What a long, strange trip it's been!"  ;)

Well, that's all folks. As EBK is fond of saying; "It's all
there in black & white." Everything I have ever contributed to
the List is there at the UFO UpDates Archives for anyone who
cares to plow through it. I have stayed around long enough to
answer any and all questions and to give everyone a chance to
get to know me over time. I value the new friends I have made
and I would like to thank you all from the bottom of my heart.

It's up to the "aliens" now, whoever or whatever they eventually
turn out to be, to drop the other shoe. I'm going to try to
enjoy whatever time of life is left to me and I finally and
officially pass the torch to the next runner. I am weary of the
fight.

I ran my best race. Hope it was good for all of you. Consider it
all as my payback to society, a gift of public service from me
to you. It was all worth it for me because all of you are worth
the effort.

Warmest regards and a fond farewell to all, please stay in
touch.....


John Velez
_Happily_ going back to being "a little nobody."  <Hee-Haw>








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                Re: UFO Magazine Folds After Editor's Death -

From: Joe McGonagle <joe.mcgonagle.nul>
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 20:17:04 -0000
Fwd Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 09:01:35 -0500
Subject: Re: UFO Magazine Folds After Editor's Death -


>From: Roy Hale <roy.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 23:03:24 -0000
>Subject: Re: UFO Magazine Folds After Editor's Death

>Tonight I received a  response to Joe McGonagle's answer,
>from a friend of FSR, I post the response below.

Just out of interest, Roy, why all the mystery surrounding this
"friend of FSR"? They sound just like one of those "anonymous
sources" which so much of ufology is dependent on to create a
good yarn.

>-----
>
>Thank you Joe McGonagle, for being so candid in your reply.

You're welcome, Sir/Madam/Whatever,

>Perhaps a few more words to jog your memory?

>It seems your initial discomfort with FSR is far more serious
>than you first thought. I recall a similar dramatic conversion
>on the road to Damascus or perhaps it was on the Motorway? Do we
>have an M15 motorway?

I couldn't possibly tell you, I'd be breaking the OSA if I did.

I used my remote viewing ability, and divined that the following
is actually a quote by me from December 2002, see:

http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2002/dec/m31-011.shtml

>I don't believe that all of the blame can be placed on the
>advent of the InterNet, this has just accelerated the effect. It
>is just that some people's minds have been so open that their
>brains have fallen out! The InterNet is simply a convenient
>platform for some people who would never be considered viable by
>the mainstream media to air their views and gain support from
>gullible, or equally "open minded" people. The same effect can
>be found in the printed media before the internet was widely
>available, for example, Flying Saucer Review.

Well, friend of FSR (if that is your real name), I am terribly
sorry if I don't happen to accept everything that is printed in
FSR as divine truth. I realise that this amounts to blasphemy
(or is it heresy?) and if tried and found guilty I will be
stoned to death, but Allingham and Adamski don't meet my
sceptical benchmarks for factual ufology (though Roy would
appear to support a different view). That is not to say that
they aren't highly entertaining stories, or that FSR does not
contain some factual articles in it. The same is true of most
(if not all) journals on the topic of ufology.

Perhaps you would prefer me not to promote FSR?


Regards,

Joe








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             Re: Scientist Creates Roswell UFO Metal - Friedman

From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul>
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 16:59:14 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 09:03:19 -0500
Subject: Re: Scientist Creates Roswell UFO Metal - Friedman


>From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 21:50:22 -0400
>Subject: Re: Scientist Creates Roswell UFO Metal

<snip>

>The Discovery article is fascinating. The kicker about the new
>materials is that they are expensive to produce... about $15.00
>per pound. But they are being used for special applications.
>Reference is made to a website:

>http://www.iquidmetal.com

The website should be http://www.liquidmetal.com










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              Re: Aliens out there? Please Come To The Rescue -

From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul>
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 17:25:25 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 09:21:08 -0500
Subject: Re: Aliens out there? Please Come To The Rescue -


>From: Aaron P. LeClair <force.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 05:50:53 -0500
>Subject: Re: Aliens out there? Please Come To The Rescue

>>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 04:54:39 -0800
>>Subject: Aliens out there? Please Come To The Rescue

>>Source: The Scotsman

>>http://news.scotsman.com/opinion.cfm?id=323022004

>>Sat 20 Mar 2004

>>Aliens out there? Please come to the rescue by
>>Albert Morris

<snip>

>I'm all for getting an alien's help, this idea just popped in my
>mind, and I am now wondering if maybe that is why aliens don't
>make more of an open contact. They might know not to give fire
>to a baby maybe?

For many years I have been saying that we are a primitive
society whose major activity is tribal warfare. Most parents
don't give their young children loaded guns to play with (except
maybe in Texas).

One reason among many for coming here could be because we are
going through the transition from being able to make a mess only
on our planet to being able to spread our form of friendship,
(Hostility) to the neighborhood. Quarantine is the word. We are
not equals.


Stan Friedman







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                 Colourful Meteor Startles Prairie Watchers

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 14:17:11 -0800
Fwd Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 09:22:54 -0500
Subject: Colourful Meteor Startles Prairie Watchers


Source: CBC News

http://www.cbc.ca

Colourful meteor startles Prairie watchers

Mon, 22 Mar 2004 7:27:44

WINNIPEG - Emergency officials had to reassure dozens of callers
that a colourful fireball seen speeding across the sky over
Manitoba and Saskatchewan Sunday night was not an exploding
plane but likely a large meteor.

* INDEPTH: Meteors

RCMP Const. Patrick Therrien saw the streak of light as he left
his detachment in Oakbank, Man., just east of Winnipeg.

"You'd never see something like that in a lifetime," he told a
local newspaper. "It was turquoise in colour and it was white in
the front, just like in the movies -- a comet with a long tail."

He and his partner watched the object break into two pieces as
it fell to Earth.

In Regina, about two dozen people called police within 20
minutes of the fireball appearing.

Some described it as changing colour from orange to blue-green
as it neared the ground.

No planes were on a flight path anywhere near the spot where the
blazing ball of light appeared.

Calls also flooded the phone lines of Environment Canada
offices, and the search and rescue headquarters at Trenton, Ont.

A meteor is a small body of matter from outer space that becomes
visible as an illuminated streak when it enters the earth's
atmosphere and friction causes it to start burning.

Any leftover material that reaches the ground is known as a
meteorite.










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   Mar > Mar 23

                 Re: Ottawa Onatrio Fireball - Peterborough

From: Kelly Peterborough <kellymcg.nul>
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 18:17:22 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 09:25:12 -0500
Subject: Re: Ottawa Onatrio Fireball - Peterborough


>From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO <hbccufo.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 21:20:58 -0800
>Subject: Ottawa Onatrio Fireball

>Ottawa, Onatrio Fireball

<snip>

It seems that over the past year or so there have been all kinds
of fireball reports from around the world. And, of course, last
week the news of the asteroid that passed close to earth.

Have any of the List scientists been monitoring this increase
(if, in fact, there is an increase) or aware of any scientific
papers on this subject?

I'm beginning to wonder if we're entering into an asteroid field
and that these reports are just the beginning of the show. And,
also, it makes more sense for alien craft UFOs to disguise
themselves as a naturally occurring meteorite, if they have
nasty intentions, no?

And Brian, thanks for all the interesting reports!


Kelly








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   Mar > Mar 23

                Re: Jerry Black To Polygraph Bruce Maccabee -

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 19:43:52 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 09:26:25 -0500
Subject: Re: Jerry Black To Polygraph Bruce Maccabee -


>From: Kenny Young <ufo.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 08:58:02 -0500>
>Subject: Re: Jerry Black To Polygraph Bruce Maccabee

>>From: Robert Gates <RGates8254.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 02:45:07 EST
>>Subject: Re: Jerry Black To Polygraph Bruce Maccabee

>>Some thoughts come to mind. As I recall it was recently
>>mentioned that Ed Walters passed one Polygraph, had a surprise
>>test sprung on him and passed that, plus passed a voice stress
>>test. So Ed Walters, the person actually claiming to have
>>seen/photographed a UFO has passed polygraph testing, yet
>>apparently Jerry Black wants the investigator to be polygraphed
>>as well.

>>Brings to mind interesting possibilities. If you investigated a
>>UFO case, conclude it was a real UFO, is it warranted that
>>somebody should demand that you be polygraphed as well to answer
>>people who disagree with your investigation? Just a thought

>Robert;

>In case you weren't aware, self-sponsored polygraph tests aren't
>valid. I think it was already said that the legitimate test Ed
>Walters was to have taken, he never showed up for.

Who says a self-sponsored test is invalid if the polygrapher is
experienced and not in collusion with the subject?

It is my recollection that Ed was advised to take a test. He was
reluctant to do it but then decided to do it. He arranged a test
and then found out that investigator Flannigan had also arranged
for a test. By the time Flannigan had arranged a test, Ed had
already been "through the mill."








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                    Recent Reports To HBCC UFO - 03-22-04

From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO <hbccufo.nul>
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 18:52:53 -0800
Fwd Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 09:29:37 -0500
Subject: Recent Reports To HBCC UFO - 03-22-04



Black Hills, Arizona

Received Report: March 22, 2004

Date:  1978 or 1979
Time:  Nighttime

Dear Mr. Brian Vike

Hello once again I hope you are doing fine and well also.  As I
told you in my last e-mail back in the 1970s I think it was 1978
or 1979 I had just turned 18 years old as well as many of my
friends that I grew up with in Dorchester, Massachusetts.

When we all got of age we decided to take a cross country road
trip to California, so 4 of us went cross country on a Greyhound
bus to San Diego California to see just what the west coast was
all about. It took us about 5 days to reach California from
Boston and before we ever heard anything about UFO's we found
out after being in San Diego for only 2 days. We all shared a
motel room and on our second night in California we were
watching the local news in San Diego. The news reporter said
that thousands of calls were coming into the news station as
people were reporting sightings over the area of Palo Alto,
California.

The strange thing was no T.V. footage was shown and it must have
been the government trying to cover it all up. The people
reporting the sightings said they saw huge discs hovering over
Palo Alto in the middle of the day and it was starting to cause
panic for some people. I do remember the news people saying that
it was not a good idea for people to travel up to Palo Alto
because of too much traffic from all of the on lookers. All of
us at the motel just thought it was strange and never gave it
any thought after hearing the report on TV. Well we stayed in
San Diego for about 3 weeks before we all decided to head back
to Massachusetts, so we did. We pooled our money together and
bought a 1968 Dodge Charger for the big trip home so we could
have more freedom than being stuck on a bus for the next 5 days.
 We left California during the late night hours so the car would
not overheat during the day as we crossed through the areas of
desert. Well all was fine until we crossed into the area of
Arizona known as the Black Hills. We had to drive over a
mountain range that seemed to take hours to get over, once we
were headed down hill to the desert areas and level highway we
noticed something very strange indeed. We saw 3 blue beautiful
lights ahead of us, they were the color of cobalt blue like the
old vicks salve jars. It seemed that no matter how far we drove
the lights were always in the same location in the sky ahead of
us.

We decided to pull over and get out to see if these lights were
aircraft or radio towers as it was hard to tell moving at 70
miles per hour in a car. Once we pulled over we got out for a
closer look and noticed that these blue lights did not make a
sound at all and they were in the same exact spot as an hour
before when we first spotted them in the sky. Another strange
fact is that we were the only car on the highway at the time and
not even a truck or anything was spotted during this time. So we
got back in the car and drove for almost another hour before
pulling over once again because the lights were still in the sky
in the same location as before. We started getting a little
nervous and wondered if this was what the people in Palo Alto
have been seeing.

We decided to turn on the car radio to find out if anybody had
called in anything about what we were seeing in the Arizona
desert but as fate would have it the radio was nothing but
static on all stations. We just thought we were so far away from
the nearest radio station and that was why we could not get any
music or news on the radio. We all looked at each other in shock
asking one other if we all saw the same blue lights and if we
could still see them, we all said yes to that.

After a few minutes my friend who was driving decided to turn
off the car head lights and shut off the engine and as soon as
he did we then became instant believers of UFO's because when he
turned off the lights the 3 cobalt blue lights that looked as if
they were at least 500 feet apart from each other began to move
towards each other until the 3 lights became one large blue
light that headed away from us and then went upwards at the
speed of a shooting star.

Many thanks to the witness for the sighting report.

--

Montreal, Quebec

Received: March 22, 2004

Date:  Winter of 1996
Time:  8:00 p.m.

Number of witnesses: 1
Number of object observed: 1
Shape of object: round

The event took place around 8:00 p.m. on a winter night. I was
walking back from a nearby mall. I was on the corner of the
Place Chatillon street and Joseph-Renaud boulevard.

Please note that commercial airplanes fly regularly over my
neighborhood (Anjou), making their approach to land at Dorval
Airport, following approximately a north-east/south-west
trajectory.

The sky was clear, no clouds. At the right moment I looked up
and I saw a small globe of light going north-west. Its altitude
was about the same as planes but was flying in the opposite
direction. More so, it was noiseless and far more quickly than
the jets.

It's edges were well defined et it was much bigger than a star.
It was about the size of a ping-pong ball seen at a distance of
12 meters, with a very white light coming from inside. Suddenly
it dimmed down then went out totally.

It all happened in 2 to 3 seconds. This is the first time that I
report this event officially. Thank you very much.

Thank you to the witness for the report.

------

Onion Lake Saskatchewan

Date:  March 21 2004
Time:  8:00 or 8:30

On the evening of March 21 2004 at about 8:00 or 8:30 as I was
sitting in my car I saw what looked like a comet as it appeared
within seconds at first it looked blue and than turned to a
yellow orangey color and than it disappeared. it came from the
east . I am in Onion Lake Saskatchewan located 30 minutes south
of Lloydminster.

I would like to thank the witness for the report. HBCC UFO
Research would like to point out that what the witness saw was a
Fireball. Many folks saw the same object that evening.

Thank you to the witness for the report.

------

St Albert Alberta
Date: Saturday, March 13 @ 15:10:45 CST
Topic: Alberta Reports

Hello Brian,

I am writing you about two sightings I have had. The first one
occurred in St Albert Alberta when was I was 5 years old, on
Easter Sunday 1966. The object which looked like a large
rotating ball of orange fire moved in a square pattern on the
horizon, to the north of my parent's house, at 6 Spruce
Crescent. The sighting lasted for at least half an hour and took
place over Sir Winston Churchill Ave, between Sturgeon Heights
and Breyside subdivisions. My mother and older sister also
witnessed the UFO and had tried to follow it along Sir Winston
Churchill Ave.

The second sighting took place when I was 14 years old in 1977
on July 4th at 2:00 am while walking back from the Parkland
Drive inn to the Primrose subdivision in West Edmonton. The
object looked like two red lights one over the other, the bottom
light seemed too be swiveling around as if it was attached to a
snake. Me and the two friends I was with thought it was a
helicopter, after it blinked out then reappeared almost over our
heads we knew it couldn't be a normal aircraft. When we first
spotted the object it was about one mile east of us an at a
height of 2000 feet, when it reappeared over us, it was almost
directly overhead but stayed at the same elevation as when we
first saw it. The sighting lasted about twenty minutes, and may
have lasted longer, but we all got the creeps watching it and
took off home.

Thank you to the witness for the report.

Brian Vike, Director
HBCC UFO Research
Home - Phone 250 845 2189
email: hbccufo.nul
Website: http://www.hbccufo.com






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   Mar > Mar 23

                         Quebec - Rue de la Montagne

From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO <hbccufo.nul>
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 19:51:41 -0800
Fwd Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 09:31:43 -0500
Subject: Quebec - Rue de la Montagne


Quebec (just off Rue de la Montagne)

Date:  March 21 2003
Time:  Approx. 9:30-10:00 p.m.

Location of Sighting: West heading East
Number of objects: 2(?)

Shape of objects: Seemed like two X's (could have been attached,
but couldn't see anything between them)

Full Description of event/sighting: I was outside my apartment
building just off the Rue de la Montagne, and I was looking at
Orion, when just to the right of it, coming from the west, I saw
a slightly faint looking orangish light. It was not lit up, it
seemed almost as if the reason I could see it was from the
reflection of the sun or even the city lights. It seemed to be
two "X" shaped or square but were on an angle looking and there
was two of them, almost diagonal to each other, but very close
to one another, and there could have been something I couldn't
see attaching the two, and it could have been only one, with two
X square shaped edges. They seemed to "wobble" as if hanging off
a string and were an reddish-orangish color, going in a straight
"wobbly" direction right across the sky towards the east. Going
much faster than any plane I've seen, but not as fast as a
falling star. It seemed to be in outer space, but yet didn't
seem as high as planes go at 35000 feet, either it was much
bigger, but I'm sure it was much closer. Then before
disappearing over top a building, it's almost as if it vanished,
or turned off and I couldn't see it anymore.

Thank you to the witness for the report.

Brian Vike, Director
HBCC UFO Research
Home - Phone 250 845 2189
email: hbccufo.nul
Website: http://www.hbccufo.com








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   Mar > Mar 23

                Re: Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices? -

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 23:37:49 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 09:33:13 -0500
Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices? -


>From: Barry Taylor <stingray.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 11:15:00 +1100
>Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices?

>>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 11:31:40 -0500
>>Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices?

>>From: Barry Taylor <stingray.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 18:21:04 +1100
>>Subject: Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices?

>Hi list members,

>Bruce, after studying the footage overnight, especially by Mike
>Kryzton taken from Moon Mountain, I found the following...

>I fully agree with you when you say the 13th March 1997, 10PM
>event was flares dropped by aircraft. They do drop and move as
>you suggest. This event was 'not' a UFO craft/objects.

>Overlay of the nightime and daytime images 'does' show the
f>lares were dropped 'behind' the peak in the Estrella range. I
>will put these images on my site soon.

>Study of the Kryzton footage I have, begins with three flares
>already illuminated. The fourth illuminates. If you count the
>seconds between the ignition of flares 5,6,7 and 8, you will
f>ind the following.

>Flare 5 = 8 seconds
>Flare 6 = 9 seconds
>Flare 7 = 5 seconds
>Flare 8 = 8 seconds

>You say in your report:

>"The size of the array is given by the following estimated
>distances: between the first and second lights to appear was
>about 7.5 miles and between the second and ninth lights is about
>3.7 miles"

>The problem of actual distance arises when working out the speed
o>f aircraft dropping the flares and time between flare display.

>If the flares were say 60 miles away, the shortest time between
>flare ignition is 5 seconds. If the flares were say 2 miles
>apart, then the aircraft would have to flying at 1440 MPH to
>cover the 2 mile distance in 5 sec. If the distance between
f>lares were 4 miles, you would have to double this speed. Same
>applies if flares 70-80 miles away. This does seem unlikely does
>it not?

>If the speed of the aircraft was a more likely 200MPH, then the
f>ollowing would apply...

>200mph = 0.055 miles/sec. or .227 of a mile in 5 sec. (1/4 mile
>in 5 sec.)

>Average drop time of flares 5 to 8 is 7.625 sec. 0.055 x 7.625 =
>0.42 of a mile between each flare. (average) Multiply this by 4
>(number of flares) = 1.677 miles between flares 5 and 8.

>Draw a line on an overlay (day & night) image from flare 5 and 8
>to the mountain top and ground to the Phoenix city far boarder.
>Is this ground distance close to 1.677 miles?

>If close, then this means that the flares were dropped at a
>close distance behind the mountain and not 70-80 miles.

>Your thoughts.

What you have pointed out here contradicts my suggestion, made
in the latter half of the ADDENDUM to my Phoenix report (see web
site http://brumac.8k.com), that a single A-10 dropped flares 2
through 9 (as labelled in the report). However, there were
several airplanes in flying home from maneuvers (I don't know
how many). They could have been flying side by side, separated
by several miles, so, if they all dropped flares over a short
time interval as they headed eastward toward Davis-Monthan AFB
in Tucson, the flares could have taken any chance "formation",
including an arc shape.

I recently rechecked the triangulation using the Krzysten and
Rairdon videos. The baseline of the triangle is made by the
distance between the K and R locations, namely about 32 miles.
Using the sighting lines to the lights I again find a
considerable distance (80 or more miles) to the lights.

K (and others) have claimed the lights were north of the
Estrella range. If that were so R would have been looking almost
due west at the collection of lights "end" on. In this case the
lights in the R video would not have had a "shape" similar to
the array in the K video (the "Krzysten Arc") . However, the
fact is that the array in the R video looks very similar to the
"Kzysten Arc." Furthermore, R was not looking due west but
southwest. These videos were both obtained at about 10 PM, March
13, 1997. Hence it is likely that they both show the same
lights, in which case, they were about 80 miles away.








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   Mar > Mar 23

                       UFO Over Buenos Aires Argentina

From: Cott Corrales <lornis1.nul>
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 08:44:26 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 09:36:02 -0500
Subject: UFO Over Buenos Aires Argentina


SOURCE: Indnoticias.com
DATE: 03.23.04

Argentina: Ufo Over Buenos Aires

An Unidentified Flyin Object (UFO) was reported this morning in
the vicinty of the coastal highway of the Argentinean capital.

Several eyewitnesses claim having seen a luminous object that
changed colors incessantly and flew over the River Plate (Rio de
la Plata). This object was followed by a second one that
vanished a few seconds later. Subsequently, witnesses claimed
having seen it over the town of Mor=F3n. (LND Noticias).

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D
Translation (c) 2004, IHU.
Special thanks to Gloria Coluchi








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   Mar > Mar 24

                           Ciel de St-Remi Quebec

From: HBCC UFO <hbccufo.nul>
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 06:54:22 -0800
Fwd Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 09:42:50 -0500
Subject: Ciel de St-Remi Quebec


Ciel de St-R=E9mi, Quebec

Date: March 19, 2004
Time:  Approx: 8:50 p.m.

Number of witnesses: 2
Number of objects: 1
Shape of object: Oval light

Around 8:50 p.m. on March 19 2004, my husband and I noticed a
very luminous object in the sky. We got out of the house to get
a better view. It was oval shaped, almost elongated, very
luminous and stationary. The object was mainly white but it was
flashing very rapidly from white to red, and sometimes a pale
blue. My husband saw very small beams of light coming off the
sides. It was still stationary but around 9:40, from where we
were, we saw a plane approaching the object and it suddenly
moved away. Then it disappeared. We listened intently and the
object made no noise. For my part, it's my second strange
sighting. The first time was in Texas in 1980. I would like to
be contacted by email if you have any question.

Thank you

Thank you to the witness for the report.

Brian Vike, Director
HBCC UFO Research
Home - Phone 250 845 2189
email: hbccufo.nul
Website: http://www.hbccufo.com








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   Mar > Mar 24

                   Astronomers Ecstatic Over Space Visitor

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 08:03:55 -0800
Fwd Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 09:44:03 -0500
Subject: Astronomers Ecstatic Over Space Visitor



Source: The Calgary Herald

http://www.canada.com/calgary/calgaryherald/news/story.html?id=229bcf98-ae28-497
c-a1c1-0d838c277148

March 23, 2004


Fireball streaks across Prairies
Astronomers ecstatic over space visitor

Barb Pacholik and Sherri Zickefoose
CanWest News Service and Calgary Herald

A Calgary amateur astronomer's nightly routine of taping the
city skyline paid off by capturing a glimpse of a spectacular
fireball that blazed across Prairie skies.

"So far, I'm the only one I know who's got it," said Don
Hladiuk, a geologist and member of the Royal Astronomy Society
of Canada.

"So far, I'm the only one I know who's got it," said Don
Hladiuk, a geologist and member of the Royal Astronomy Society
of Canada.

Hladiuk mans the University of Calgary's automatic sky search
camera, and the fish-eye lens caught the streak of light and two
bright flashes at 7:33 p.m., Sunday night, according to the
camera's timer.

"It's really exciting. In the end, you hope to discover new
rocks."

The fireball that lit up the night sky over Alberta,
Saskatchewan and Manitoba has stoked excitement among
astronomers musing about the rare possibility of a significant
meteorite discovery.

Determining the exact path of the fireball, which University of
Calgary geologist Alan Hildebrand estimates to have been the
size of a kitchen sink while sailing over the city, is proving
to be a challenge.

"We wish it was 10 tonnes instead of 100 kilograms," said
Hildebrand, who is the co-ordinator of the Canadian Fireball
Reporting Centre.

Although the sky was cloudy on Sunday night, the burst of light
was visible to Calgarian Rachel Crook as she headed north on
Crowchild Trail.

"There was a great, huge bright-orange flash to the east," she
said.

"It was amazing."

"It totally took me by surprise. My first thought was something
exploded. I was looking for smoke, like it was a helicopter."

On Monday, Martin Beech, a Regina astronomer who sits on a
national meteorite committee, was busy sifting through reported
sightings.

"It's potentially very exciting," said Beech, who teaches at the
University of Regina's Campion College.

"Without a doubt, a very bright fireball was seen," he said,
adding all signs are pointing to a meteor -- burning fragments
of asteroids from the region between Mars and Jupiter.

Because it was so widely visible and some witnesses heard a
sonic boom or smelled sulphur, the possibility of a meteorite --
 when pieces of a meteor actually reach Earth -- are increased,
he added.

"There's a very good chance meteorites did come to ground from
what I've heard so far."

If a meteorite hit Saskatchewan and could be located, it would
be the first "meteorite fall" -- a fireball sighting combined
with finding material on the ground -- that's been recorded in
the province, said Beech, a member of the Meteorites and Impacts
Advisory Committee to the Canadian Space Agency.

The fireball was not a satellite, part of a rocket or other
manmade space debris, confirmed Capt. Dave Muralt of 17 Wing at
CFB Moose Jaw, Sask. He checked Monday with Norad in Colorado,
which tracks orbiting material returning to Earth.

Chris Rutkowski, an unidentified flying object expert in
Winnipeg, said "a good chunk of Canada saw this thing."

He said there were reports Sunday of sightings from Edmonton to
Ottawa and into North Dakota.

Because so many people saw the fireball, chances are it was very
high up, said Rutkowski, who was speaking on behalf of Ufology
Research of Manitoba.

Despite the dramatic display, the show lasted only about four
seconds. But Ronalda and Ben Kleinsasser, who live on a farm
near Kerrobert, Sask., won't forget what they saw.

"I was watching TV when I saw this ball of fire dropping out of
the sky with a tail of flames," said Ben Kleinsasser. "I watched
it coming down until there it was, right in front of us.

"My hair went up on end and I had goose bumps. It was wild. And
it rumbled the floor pretty good because my daughter came
running upstairs asking if someone fell in the house."

Family members scoured the area for any sign of impact or
damage.

"I figured for sure it hit one of our barns or bins. That's how
close it seemed."

If anyone along the meteor's path finds an odd rock, there are
tell-tale characteristics to look for, such as a shiny jet-black
surface and magnetic properties, Beech said.

QUICK FACTS:

Here is some information about meteors:

- What are they: Bits of comet debris. Scientists think comets
formed some 4.6 billion years ago when the sun condensed out of
a cloud of hydrogen, helium and some dust and the solar system
was born.

- Meteor: When the meteoroid, or comet debris, enters the
Earth's atmosphere, the light phenomenon is called a meteor.

- Meteorite: A meteoroid that survives passage through the
atmosphere and hits the ground.

- Speedball:Just before they enter the Earth's atmosphere,
meteoroids travel at 71 km/second, or some 2,663 times as fast
as a fast pitch in baseball, or the same as going around the
Earth in 3.8 minutes.

- Light show: The colour of a meteor is an indication of its
composition and the excitation temperature: sodium atoms give an
orange-yellow light, iron atoms a yellow light, magnesium a
blue-green light, calcium atoms may add a violet hue, while
silicon atoms and molecules of atmospheric nitrogen give a red
light.

- How old: If parts of a meteorite are found, its age can be
determined by testing its level of radioactivity.










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   Mar > Mar 24

                           NASA About To Announce?

From: Max Burns <max.burns.nul>
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 19:11:00 -0000
Fwd Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 09:45:17 -0500
Subject: NASA About To Announce?


EBK, and Listers,

I have just heard that NASA are about to hold a press conference
in the next hour.

The rumour is that they are about to annouce that the Mars
Rover, is right now on the edge of a "Salty Sea"

That's all I have, I will report more shortly.


Max






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                       UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 9 Number 12

From: John Hayes <webmaster.nul>
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 20:06:12 +0000
Fwd Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 09:49:11 -0500
Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 9 Number 12


Posted on behalf of Joseph Trainor.

<Masinaigan.nul>
==========================

      UFO ROUNDUP
Volume 9, Number 12
March 24, 2004
Editor: Joseph Trainor

E-mail: Masinaigan.nul
Website: http://www.ufoinfo.com/roundup/


NEW PLANET DISCOVERED
IN OUR SOLAR SYSTEM

      "Astronomers Monday," March 15, 2004, "revealed the
discovery of a frozen world, the most distant celestial
body ever found in the solar system."
      "Named Sedna after an Inuit (Eskimo) sea goddess who
is said to live at the bottom of the Arctic Ocean, it is
the latest in a series of super-sized icy bodies detected
in recent years."
      "In its elongated orbit, Sedna is now 8 billion miles
(12 billion kilometers) from the sun, compared with
Earth's 93 million miles (148 million kilometers).  It is
smaller than our solar system's smallest planet; with a
diameter of about 1,000 miles (1,600 kilometers), Sedna is
about two-thirds the size of Pluto."
      "'Once you know these objects are out there, you
change how you see the solar system,' says astronomer Mike
Brown of the California Institute of Technology in
Pasadena, who headed the discovery team."
      "Found on November 14 (2003) with a 48-inch (120-
centimeter) telescope, Sedna is the first sighting of a
member of the Oort Cloud of comets, which circles the
solar system perhaps 200 billion to 2 trillion miles (320
billion to 3.2 trillion kilometers) from the sun, Brown
says."
      "Sedna isn't a planet, Brown says, because it's too
small.  (Only half the size of Luna, Earth's moon--J.T.)
But it is still remarkable."
      "A year on Sedna lasts 10,500 (Earth) years as it
travels in an elongated orbit that takes it as far as 84
billion miles (134 billion kilometers) from the sun and
drops its temperature" to 440 degrees below zero on the
Fahrenheit scale.
      "As Sedna nears its closest approach to the sun, it
is summer there; the temperatures are at" 420 degrees
below zero.
      "Sedna is very red, 'quite shiny, quite a surprise,'
Brown says.  He says Sedna might have a small moon
(Yuggoth?--J.T.) circling in a 40-day orbit."
(Editor's Note: From that far out in space, the sun would
appear to a resident of Sedna the way Sirius looks to us--
like a very bright star in an eternally dark night sky.)
      "'It's an exciting discovery in what is really a
tantalizing part of the solar system,' says planetary
astronomer Will Grundy of the Lowell Observatory in
Flagstaff, Arizona, where scientists discovered Pluto in
1930.  Grundy, who wasn't a member of the Sedna discovery
team, doubts that Sedna is part of the mysterious Oort
Cloud--the solar system's freezer for comets flung into
deep space--because its orbit doesn't carry it far enough
away from the sun."
      "What scientists can call a planet is a bit
uncertain.  The International Astronomical Union has
agreed only to an upper limit on the size of a planet,
says astronomer Mordecai-Mark MacLow of the American
Museum of Natural History.  That leaves a lower size limit
open to interpretation."
      "'We have a continuum of orbiting objects now, from
Jupiter to the smallest asteroid you can name, and we'll
likely have to develop new terminology for them,' MacLow
says."
      "When the solar system formed 4.5 billion years ago,
the gravity of a then-nearby star might have pulled Sedna
away, Brown says."
      "Other astronomers call that idea speculative."  (See
USA Today for March 16, 2004, "Far-away planetoid joins
neighborhood," page 9D.)
(Editor's Comment: Well, I guess now we know where H.P.
Lovecraft's body went after the aliens stole it from Swan
Point Cemetery in Providence, Rhode Island back in 1997.)



SILVER TRIANGULAR UFO
SIGHTED IN PUERTO RICO

      "On Thursday, February 25, 2004, Mrs. Elba Rivera and
her husband, as well as several other people, spotted from
the parking lot at the Santa Maria Shopping Center,
located in Rio Piedras (metropolitan San Juan--J.M.),"
Puerto Rico, "a large sized shiny silver isoceles-
triangle-shaped UFO.  The triangle seemed to materialize
in the sky and, even though it appeared to be miles away,
they described its size as some three inches (7.5
centimeters) at arm's length.  This indicates it must have
been large in size.  It seemed to be suspended over the
region of the city of Bayamon."
      "The triangle remained motionless in the sky for
about a minute until a dark cloud from the east covered
it.  When the cloud moved away, the triangle disappeared
from sight."
      "On Thursday, March 4, 2004," Mrs. Rivera, "as well
as several other people, observed another UFO, this time
it was a shiny, large, silvery, cylinder-shaped object.
She described its size as 'was almost 6 feet long,' again
seen from a distance of several miles away.  The object
flew from west to east and disappeared from sight in a
matter of seconds.  In this occasion, the UFO was sighted
by residents of College Park and Altamesa, in Rio Piedras,
P.R.  On both occasions, the sightings occurred around 5
to 6 p.m."  (Muchas gracias a Jorge Martin, director de la
revista Enigmas, para estas noticias.)


BOOMERANG-SHAPED UFO
SPOTTED IN KENTUCKY

      On Thursday, March 18, 2004, 9:45 p.m., Rob P. was
sitting on his patio in Danville, Kentucky (population
15,477) when he saw a strange object in the sky
approaching from the south.
      "A boomerang-shaped object caught my eye as I was
outside on my back patio smoking a cigarette," Rob
reported, "It was faint and hard to see.  I could not tell
if it was low enough to be picking up ambient lighting
from the city streets here where I live, or if it was
emitting a faint glow of its own."
      "Well, it's hard to describe how it appeared...it
looked like a made (manufactured) object, not an animal
flying.  It took a very straight path in the sky and
traversed the whole sky in around 15 seconds.  No sound.
So, if it was some kind of craft or plane, and it had
conventional earthly engines we are used to, it was way
too high for me to hear, meaning that it was indeed flying
at some crazy speed close to 2,000 miles per hour (3,200
kilometers per hour).  Weird!"
      "I have never seen anything like this before.  The
fastness (speed--J.T.) of the object made it even eerier.
I am dumbfounded.  The object traveled in what looked like
a perfect northerly heading.  Forty-five seconds after
this, as I scanned the sky wanting to catch sight of this
object again, a second object came into view."
      "It came from the direction (north) that this object
was headed towards. At first I really thought it was a
shooting star.  I noticed the coincidence of it happening
right after me seeing the first object."
      "The second object seemed to move at the same speed
as the first, which was really fast.  The way it faded
into view really lended to my thinking that it was a
shooting star coming into the atmosphere.  The object
looked like" the first one "for about two seconds.  But
then, as it got overhead of me, it turned red in color and
changed course with what looked like a 90-degree turn
towards the east.  It then continued east for about one
second and then faded quickly from view."
      "I have never, ever seen a meteor make a turn before.
I have seen them come into the atmosphere and slow down,
turn colors, explode leaving trails of sparkles, but
never, ever change course, especially a 90-degree turn."
      Rob said the UFO was "larger than a normal aircraft,
about six times as large as a passenger aircraft
(jetliner) flying at 35,000 feet (10,500 meters)."  (Email
Form Report)


ANOTHER UFO SIGHTED
IN WEST MIDLANDS, UK

      On Thursday, February 19, 2004, at 9:40 p.m., Alison
Devereaux was outdoors at Kings Norton, near Birmingham,
in the West Midlands of UK when she saw a UFO approach
from the east.
      "Sitting outside, I noticed a coloured shape slightly
larger than a star," Alison reported.  "Small ball of
light.  It looked like a star at first, moving across the
sky at a consistent pace.  No tail of light.  Then it
started to jump and move slightly while moving in the same
direction--south.  It seemed to move quite fast, and then
increased its speed again, as though it were coming
through the atmosphere.  No trace of burning up.  Colour
and shape were consistent the whole time."  (Email Form
Report)


YELLOW UFO SEEN AT
GROSE VALE, N.S.W.

      On Saturday, March 20, 2004, at 1:30 a.m., E.P. was
outdoors in Grose Vale, New South Wales, Australia, not
far from Sydney, when she saw a slightly luminous object
approaching from the Blue Mountains to the west.
      "Sitting outside, I noticed a coloured shape slightly
larger than a star," she reported, "Very bright and milky
yellow in colour.  It moved with irregular movements, back
and forth horizontally and vertically, sometimes looking
like it was rotating.  Don't know what it was.  Yellow
with just a hint of orange, sometimes white."  (Email Form
Report)


CROP CIRCLES FOUND IN
NORTHERN IRELAND

      "In Derry (Northern Ireland) this week, a discovery
was made in the greater Shantallow area of two large
circular markings in a field along the west bank of the
river Foyle."
      "Crop marks or 'rings' that appear in a field are
usually associated with programmes such as The X-Files or
extraterrestrial investigation that typically occurs in
heartland America."
      "However, the find seems to be of archaeological
importance rather than an extraterrestrial-related
discovery."
      "During a recent field survey, local archaeologists
Ian Leitch and Thomas Gallagher identified a site near
Ballynagalliagh with unique markings."
      "The largest of these crop marks measures 70 metres
(231 feet) in diameter, and the site lies in an internal
hollow, which holds water in wet weather."
      "Because of this and the fact that there are no
visible remains above ground level, Ian Leitch suggested
that the site may have had an archaeological importance."
      "'The crop marks may be the result of natural
drainage around the highlands, and it's possible that they
encountered an in-filled ditch around some form of
enclosure, which may have occupied the hill,' Ian said."
      Padraich O'Hearne, UFO Roundup correspondent in
Ireland, said he thinks the Ballynagalliagh site may
indeed by some heretofore-unknown prehistoric
civilization.
      "Mr. Leitch's suggested enclosure might be of truly
fabulous age," Padraich said, "It may date back to that
remote period when Ireland was a part of the European
mainland.  Indeed, this site might be an outpost of
Atlantis here in Ireland."  (See the Irish Times for March
12, 2004, "Crop rings in Derry field."  Many thanks to
Robert Fischer and Padraich O'Hearne for this newspaper
article.)


      Well, that's it for this week.  Join us next time for
more UFO, Fortean and paranormal news from around the
planet Earth, brought to you by "the paper that goes home-
-UFO Roundup."  See you in seven days.

UFO ROUNDUP: Copyright 2004 by Masinaigan Productions, all
rights reserved.  Readers may post news items from UFO
Roundup on their Web sites or in news groups provided that
they credit the newsletter and its editor by name and list
the date of issue in which the item first appeared.

E-Mail Reports to: Joseph Trainor <Masinaigan.nul>
or use the Sighting Report Form at:

http://www.ufoinfo.com/forms/form_sighting.htm

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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   Mar > Mar 24

              Re: Brampton Ontario - 2 Round/Circular Objects -

From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul>
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 00:03:56 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
Fwd Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 09:54:40 -0500
Subject: Re: Brampton Ontario - 2 Round/Circular Objects -


>From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO <hbccufo.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 15:24:46 -0800
>Subject: Brampton Ontario - 2 Round/Circular Objects

>Brampton, Ontario

>Date: March 19, 2004
>Time:  5:30 a.m.
>Shape of objects: Round or Circular like
>Full Description of event/sighting:

>At about 5:30 a.m. eastern time I was at work and stepped
>outside into the yard to have a cigarette. It was about 30
>minuets to dawn yet so I could still make out some of the stars.

>As I was admiring the morning sky I noticed what I thought to be
>a star in a unusual area of the sky at that time of morning and
>noted its unusual color, which was an orange pinkish hue.

>Then I saw it start to slowly move in a northerly direction and
>thought I was seeing a high flying aircraft as my place of
>employment is about 15 kilometers from Pearson International
>Airport, and we have commercial aircraft fly directly over our
>building at any given moment of the day.

>Usually the planes at that time in the morning come in from the
>west and then bank south to the runways.

>What I saw next was amazing.

>The object I seen quickly started to accelerate north where it
>met with another and similar object which seemed to appear out
>of nowhere and they both banked hard and fast to the West,
>accelerating and decelerating like they were playing with one
>another and while this was going on they seemed to wobble and
>shimmer.

>I thought I may be imagining things but I wasn't.

No, the witness was not imagining things. The motions of the
objects he describes and his comments that "like they were
playing with one another" and "they seemed to wobble and
shimmer" and even their "orange pinkish" colours agrees very
closely with what would expect of high flying birds seen in the
light of dawn.

This can be easily verified if the witness sets out again on the
next morning with clear skies, especially after it rained/snowed
that night or on the previous day (like it did in Brampton)
which attracts lots of seagulls. Birds flying in and around
Pearson International Airport are such a big problem and a
hazard to aircraft that the airport authorities use other birds
- falcons - to scare away the seagulls and even migratory birds
now flying back north.

>They were flying at approximately 7 to 10,000 feet and
>accelerated more than the speed of a visible satellite seen on a
>clear night.

Unless the witness knows the size of these objects or what they
were, it is impossible to determine their distance. Since the
distance cannot be certain, then their speeds would also be
impossible to deduce. Was the witness really suggesting that
these objects were moving faster that about 5 miles per second,
the orbital velocity of Earth satellites? At his estimated
height of about 10,000 feet, these objects would have been out
of sight in a jiffy!

Have the witness arrange for others in his neighbourhood, all
with compasses, to step out and observe similar such objects in
the future while in contact with each other by phone. Once the
direction and elevation of the same object is accurately noted
by two or more witnesses, then through triangulation, the
distance and even the size of the objects can then be accurately
made, otherwise such estimates by single witnesses are totally
meaningless and only lead to erroneous conclusions.

I want to thank Brian and the witness (the same person that
phoned 'Strange Days... Indeed' on Saturday night to tell
Errol?) for sharing this interesting UFO sighting report with
us.


Nick Balaskas








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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   Mar > Mar 24

                         North Gower Ottawa Ontario

From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO <hbccufo.nul>
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 15:26:30 -0800
Fwd Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 10:53:28 -0500
Subject: North Gower Ottawa Ontario


North Gower, Ottawa, Ontario

Date:  Approx: Fall or Winter of 1974
Time:  9:30 p.m

Hello Brian,

About 30 years ago on my parents farm about 4 miles out of North
Gower on Century Road. It was late fall or early winter. I was
coming back from putting straw down for our horses in the barn,
I often looked up at the night sky to see the stars and the
moon.

This time it was around 9:30 p.m. I looked up at the sky towards
the southwest and there was a kind of longish oval shaped
object. It had bright flashing lights around the outside of it,
there were white, red and green colored lights. It seemed to
hover in one spot for about 5 minutes.

While I was staring at this weird object it dawned on me this
must be a UFO and I wondered if they knew I saw them or they saw
me.

A short while later it started to move and then just a flash of
light and it was gone from sight. I wanted to tell someone
really bad but waited about 5 years after and told my brother. I
never told my parents as I knew they would never believe me. I
met a farmer once from Montana who told me he saw a UFO also and
he is the only person I know who ever told me he had seen one.
Hope my recollection of events is ok, I pretty much remember it
clearly as it is not something easily forgotten.

Additional Information Below.

Good Afternoon Brian,

1. - The location it took place was outside North Gower. North
Gower is about 20 miles south of Ottawa.

2. - The sighting lasted about 5 minutes.The lights on the
object were horizontally around the object and flashed in kind
of a sequence.

3. - The object did not change shape.There was no sound heard
during the whole time.

4. - I am guessing 10,000 feet, hard to judge as it was dark at
the time.

5. - I think I recall a whitish flash when it took off.

6. - That night it was very clear skies with stars out and quite
cold.

7. - There were no other aircraft that I could see in the sky
that night.

I hope this helps. Take care Brian

Thank you to the witness for the report.


Brian Vike, Director
HBCC UFO Research
Home - Phone 250 845 2189
email: hbccufo.nul
Website: http://www.hbccufo.com








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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   Mar > Mar 24

                       Report Of 7 UFOs In V-Formation

From: Barry Taylor <stingray.nul>
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 14:42:12 +1100
Fwd Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 10:55:13 -0500
Subject: Report Of 7 UFOs In V-Formation


Hello List Members,

For your interest, I have just posted a report of my amazing
sighting of a close "V" formation of seven golden UFO discs only
50 feet away. Read what happened to me during the sighting.

www.theozfactor.cjb.net/ufo_vformation.htm

Graphic of the formation and detailed description will help with
your research into these formations.


Regards,

Barry Taylor








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   Mar > Mar 24

                           FOIA Pay Dirt From FBI

From: Larry W. Bryant <overtci.nul>
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 22:46:14 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 11:03:23 -0500
Subject: FOIA Pay Dirt From FBI


Some (Long-delayed) FOIA Pay Dirt from the FBI: The Chuck
Hansen Dossier -- by Larry W. Bryant

After months and months of patiently waiting for the U. S.
Federal Bureau of Investigation to fulfill my FOIA request for
access to all Bureau records pertaining to the
writings/associations/activities of a (not-so-mere) technical
writer named Chuck Hansen (who died on March 26, 2003), I now
can report my recent receipt of some 61 heavily censored pages
from his FBI dossier, which represents part of the 145 pages
reviewed for possible release to me -- the remaining pages now
being referred to what the Bureau calls an "other government
agency (OGA)" (presumably the U. S. Defense Nuclear Agency --
 DNA, which figures prominently in the overall dossier).

The FBI redactions (including entire pages' worth of
information) center on the classified ("SECRET") nature of the
dossier. So, I'm expecting to receive not much releasable
information from any DNA FOIAphiles once they get around to
fulfilling my request.

Why so secret? Since 1971, Hansen had gained fame/(infamy?) for
his daring to research and write about various U. S. nuclear-
 weapons development/testing programs. Apparently, some time in
the spring of 1993 that daring took an alarming turn, resulting
in a counterintelligence investigation by the Bureau's
Washington Metropolitan Field Office -- as referred to by a WMFO
memo dated May 11, 1993, and titled "Possible Unauthorized
Disclosure of Classified Information to Chuck Hansen, et al., at
the Defense Nuclear Agency, WDC [Washington, D.C.]." The memo's
principal paragraphs state:

"Reference WMFO teletype dated 4/30/93 to the Bureau and San
Francisco.

"Per referenced teletype enclosed for the Bureau and San
Francisco [field office] are copies of xeroxed documents
provided by the interviewee, [FBI-redacted] of the Defense
Nuclear Agency."

Having been on the receiving end of FBI interest in my own
critical research into, and writings about, certain government
policies/practices (especially about the role of various
military and law-enforcement officials in the so-called UFO
cover-up), I examine such a dossier as Hansen's with intensity
and a keen sense of empathy. For example, I note that, in
responding (favorably) to the San Francisco office's request for
authorization to interview Hansen, the Bureau headquarters
produced the following background information on him:

"FBIHQ files indicated that a Peninsula Times Tribune article
dated December 11, 1980, mentioned that Charles Hansen was a
Mountain View, California, computer programmer, who used public
information entirely to compile hydrogen bomb descriptions.

"Chuck Hansen submitted a FOIAPA request to the FBI in 1988. He
was interested in obtaining a copy of the 'KGB and the Library
Target, 1962--present,' as mentioned in an Associated Press wire
service story printed in the San Francisco Chronicle, dated May
18, 1988.

"Bureau files also indicated that Chuck Hansen submitted a
FOIAPA request in 1988, to obtain any records pertaining to
himself from 1947-1988.

"Note: Instant [memo] forwards Los Angeles [field office] the
results of a Bureau indices search for captioned subject."

Do you perceive any red flags here? Well, I certainly do. Why
does the Bureau feel compelled to store within its "subject"
indices the identity of any person who happens to submit an
FOIA/Privacy Act request to a given FBI element? Do those
requesters whose inquiries concern controversial or sensitive
issues become automatically FBI-tagged as potential subversives,
worthy of permanent, priority notice within the (now cavernous)
files of the Bureau? Does such targeted record-keeping reflect
wise expenditure of taxpayer funds (not to mention reflecting
conscientious safeguarding of the public's right-to-know and the
Bureau's duty-to-tell)?

As you ponder those questions, consider the denouement of the
Hansen Affair. It comes in the following excerpt from a "SECRET"
Aug. 9, 1993, teletype message from the San Francisco FBI
division to the FBI director:

"Referenced BU airtel authorized SF to conduct interview of
Chuck Hansen in an effort to determine how Hansen was able to
submit freedom of information requests to the Defense Nuclear
Agency, seeking copies of classified historical reports with
such specificity as to request certain numbered pages contained
in each report. These requests would seem to indicate that
Hansen either already had access to the reports requested or was
being furnished information concerning these reports which could
indicate a possible compromise of classified information.

"Contact with Mr. Charles Robert (Chuck) Hansen at 1086 South
Bernardo Ave., Sunnyvale, Ca. 94087, to arrange for an
interview, resulted in Mr. Hansen stating that he wished to
contact his attorney prior to submitting to an interview by FBI
agents.

"On 8/6/93, attorney [deleted] with the law firm of [deleted],
CA., telephonically contacted SF case agent [deleted] in the
Palo Alto resident agency, to advise that he was representing
Mr. Chuck Hansen. Attorney [deleted] requested the nature of the
interview and was advised that this matter was referred by
another federal agency and that the question concerned Mr.
Hansen's ability to make requests for historical documents,
currently classified at the SECRET level, from the Defense
Nuclear Agency, with such specificity as to identify specific
page numbers requested within those reports. It was emphasized
to attorney [deleted] that the Bureau's interest did not concern
the fact that Mr. Hansen had submitted freedom of information
requests from the Defense Nuclear Agency. The Bureau's interest
concerned the possibility that Hansen might already have access
to information that is deemed classified. Attorney [deleted]
made arrangements for SF case agent to interview Chuck Hansen on
8/10/93 at 2:30 PM in the offices of [deleted] in [deleted],
CA., with attorney [deleted] present.

"On 8/9/93, Chuck Hansen left a recorded message on the
telephone answering machine of the Palo Alto resident agency
advising the case agent that 'I am canceling our meeting in San
Francisco on Tuesday afternoon' and that 'he (case agent) should
get back to the people who put him onto me and ask them to put
their questions in writing or have them get in touch with my
attorney in Washington, D.C., [deleted].' Hansen followed up
that call during normal business hours to insure that the case
agent received his message; however, he did not wish to speak
with the case agent.

"For information of WMFO, SF obtained a library copy of Chuck
Hansen's book titled 'U. S. Nuclear Weapons: The Secret
History,' published by Aerofax Inc. for Orion Books, 1988."

The SF memo goes on to discuss Hansen's acknowledged sources for
the book's content, and encourages WMFO "to obtain a copy of
Hansen's book for additional information that might be pertinent
to this investigation.

"SF will submit results of other investigation under separate
cover."

Finally, in a WMFO memo dated Oct. 20, 1993, the Bureau wraps up
its investigation by stating:

"On Wednesday, October 13, 1993, the case agent met with
[deleted], DNA, [deleted], Virginia. [Deleted] was given
[deleted]. [Deleted] advised that DNA [deleted]. Chuck Hansen
[deleted]. At this time, [deleted] advised that DNA [deleted].

"[Deleted] thanked the case agent for the FBI's assistance and
cooperation in this matter.

"Accordingly, WMFO is placing this matter in a closed status."











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   Mar > Mar 24

                     UFO Investigator & ISU Alumnus Dead

From: Terry Groff <terry.nul>
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 02:15:03 -0600
Fwd Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 11:18:31 -0500
Subject: UFO Investigator & ISU Alumnus Dead


Source: Iowa State Daily

http://www.iowastatedaily.com/vnews/display.v/ART/2004/03/24/4061058409b0b?in_ar
chive=1


March 24, 2004
UFO investigator, ISU alumnus dead

By Scott Rank
Daily Staff Writer

An ISU alumnus who worked on the country's largest, most
systematic investigation of UFOs died Thursday after a struggle
with cancer. He was 70.

Roy Craig, who received his doctorate in physical chemistry from
Iowa State in 1952, was chief field investigator for The
Colorado Project, the official government search for verifiable
evidence for the existence of UFOs. He was highly skeptical of
UFOs, but was fascinated by the false reports of their
existence.

"He felt the entire aspect of UFOs were the most important
social phenomena of the last half of the 20th century," said Hal
Mansfield, a friend of Craig. "They opened up the minds of
people to life on other planets and changed their perspective of
Earth as the center of the universe."

Craig's professional career spanned many different branches of
science, including nuclear weapons research, but he gained his
professional notoriety as the chief field investigator for The
Colorado Project, according to an obituary written by Mansfield.

"He gained notoriety because he was on the wrong side of the
fence with those who ardently believed in the existence of
UFOs," Mansfield said. "Dr. Craig's conclusions about UFOs
didn't come down on the believers' side of the issue."

At the end of this project, Craig and the other investigators
released the Condor Report, one of the most important documents
in UFO history, according to the obituary. The report stated
scientists had nothing to gain from taking UFOs seriously and
that the entire subject was largely useless to science.

The report was a response to the thousands of UFO sightings
received by the Air Force during the 1950s and 1960s, according
to Craig's book, "UFOs: An Insider's View of the Official Quest
for Evidence." Public interest in UFOs surged by sensationalized
press attention, which stated the government kept UFOs secret
under the guises of weather balloons and swamp gas.

As part of The Colorado Project, Craig personally investigated
numerous UFO incidents, one involving a bow hunter from
California who claimed he narrowly escaped a killer robot from
space, armed with nothing but his bow and arrows, Craig wrote in
his book.

Craig confirmed most of these "sightings" were merely hoaxes.

"The blind desire to believe can and does lead a person into
absolute absurdities," Craig wrote. "These cases illustrate the
responses of human minds which are governed by the desire to
believe in the reality of flying saucers."

While the report that Craig co-authored debunked mysteries about
outer space, he wrote that UFOs did get people to think about
the possibility of extraterrestrial life.

He also wasn't a complete UFO skeptic.

In the last chapter of his book, Craig included revolutionary
theories that defended the possibility of interstellar travel.
He wrote a few years of scientific progress would prove aliens
traveling to earth was possible -- at least theoretically.

"Roy said most people's disbelief of UFOs existence came from
our limited knowledge of physics and cosmology," Mansfield said.

During his career, he taught physics at the University of
Colorado and helped set up the Four Corners Research Institute,
which offered environmental and other scientific investigations.
He spent his retirement years on a 160-acre ranch in Ignacio,
Colorado, where he took care of a herd of 60 llamas.







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   Mar > Mar 24

                  A Lineup In The Sky Planets Put On A Show

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 06:41:53 -0800
Fwd Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 11:21:07 -0500
Subject: A Lineup In The Sky Planets Put On A Show


Source: Newsday

http://www.newsday.com/news/health/ny-hsplan233719899mar23,0,1056558.story?coll=
ny-health-headlines

A LINEUP IN THE SKY: Planets put on a show

March 23, 2004

Mercury, Venus, Mars, Saturn and Jupiter will line up in the sky
every night for about two weeks starting last night, in a view
of the five planets that may be the best until 2036, according
to NASA.

The five so-called "naked- eye" planets will be visible for an
hour after sunset, and will appear in a line across the sky,
according to a statement posted on the National Aeronautics and
Space Administration Web site.

   The five planets' orbits mean they only "sporadically" appear
on the same side of the sun, usually every few years, according
to NASA. Other such alignments will occur over the next few
years, but this may be the best for at least three decades,
according to NASA astronomer Myles Standish.

"This particular planetary grouping will quite possibly offer
the best nighttime views until 2036," Standish, who works at
NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena, Calif., said in
the statement.

The planets will be visible after sunset tonight in the western
horizon, with Mercury low in the sky, Venus and Mars above it,
Saturn almost directly overhead and Jupiter nearly on the eastern
horizon, NASA said, using a map made for a latitude of 34 degrees
north, or level with Los Angeles. But the planets will similarly
appear in a line across the sky from all locations, according to
NASA.

The moon will also be visible, appearing as a crescent tonight
near Mercury and waxing over the next several nights to become
almost full on April 1 when it will appear above Jupiter,
according to NASA.

To see the gathering of planets, viewers should look at the sky
away from bright city lights and buildings. The planets should
still be visible through urban light pollution, NASA said,
adding that the best views will occur during the last eight to
10 days of March.

Viewing the Fab Five

For the next two weeks, five planets will be in lineand visible
to the naked eye for an hour after sunset.

Jupiter

Saturn

Orion

Mars

Venus

As viewed tonight

Moon

Mercury










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   Mar > Mar 24

                   Expert Confirms Meteor In Sunday's Sky

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 06:45:39 -0800
Fwd Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 11:23:15 -0500
Subject: Expert Confirms Meteor In Sunday's Sky


Source: The Winnipeg Sun

http://www.canoe.ca/NewsStand/WinnipegSun/News/2004/03/23/392062.html

March 23, 2004

Expert confirms meteor in Sunday's sky

By Katie Chalmers - Staff Reporter

No, it wasn't an exploding airplane or an elaborate fireworks
display. The bright fireball that lit up the night sky over
Southern Manitoba on Sunday was a meteor, experts confirm.

"Apparently, it was quite spectacular," said Scott Young, an
astronomer with the Manitoba Museum. "It started off as a single
body from outer space, hit our atmosphere and disintegrated."

Meteors, which are pieces of rock from outer space which burn up
in a puff of light, happen all the time but this one stood out
because of its intensity and early-evening timing which ensured
a widespread audience across Eastern Alberta, the prairies and
into Ontario.

"It looked like something I have never ever seen before," said
Pinawa resident Clara Cooper, who was watching TV with her
husband when she spotted the meteor through a living room window
about 7:30 p.m. "The colours were so fantastic."

UNUSUAL SIGHTING

Witnesses from Oak Bank and Winnipeg were quick to report the
unusual sighting to their local RCMP detachment or Transport
Canada and fill up Young's voice mail at the planetarium.

They reported seeing what looked like a comet with a blue light
near the front and a long, blueish-green tail behind.

"It was seen by literally hundreds of people," said researcher
Chris Rutkowski.

Young is asking anyone who videotaped the meteor to contact the
planetarium so they can figure out where any pieces might have
landed.

He's bracing for a surge of potential meteorite findings from
Manitoba farmers but chances are they're not the real deal.

To date, there have only been seven meteorites ever found in
Manitoba.

"In 30 years, we've never had a single meteorite come through
the door," said Young, adding the brighter-than-usual meteor
likely stemmed from an asteroid instead of a comet.









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   Mar > Mar 24

                Re: Tycoon Funds Hunt For Alien Life - Warren

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 06:52:36 -0800
Fwd Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 11:24:37 -0500
Subject: Re: Tycoon Funds Hunt For Alien Life - Warren


>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 19:22:27 +0000
>Subject: Re: Tycoon Funds Hunt For Alien Life

>>From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>To: - UFO UpDates Subscribers -
>>Subject: UFO UpDate: Tycoon Funds Hunt For Alien Life
>>Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 11:53:01 -0500

>>Source: BBC OnLine

>>http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/3556873.stm

>>22 March, 2004

>>Tycoon Funds Hunt For Alien Life

>>Paul Allen, the co-founder of software titan Microsoft, is
>>ploughing a slice of his fortune into the search for life on
>>other planets.

>>Mr Allen is donating $13.5m to the California-based Seti
>>Institute.

>>The money will be used to create a radio telescope array
>>comprising more than 200 dishes which will measure signals from
>>space.

>Too bad he doesn't give a lousy $1 million to UFO research. He
>would get a far bigger return on his money.

> - Dick

Dick, Et AL,

Perhaps Allen would donate money to UFO research - his interests
are obvious - has anyone asked?


Frank










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   Mar > Mar 24

             Re: Jerry Black's Reply To Conners & Clark - Clark

From: Jerome Clark <jkclark.nul>
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 08:24:11 -0600
Fwd Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 11:25:37 -0500
Subject: Re: Jerry Black's Reply To Conners & Clark - Clark


>From: Jerry Black <gulfbreezeinfo.nul>
>To: UFO Updates <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 11:18:40 -0800 (PST)
>Subject: Jerry Black's Reply To Conners & Clark

>March 22, 2004

>Ms. Wendy Connors and Mr. Jerome Clark,

>I accept your idea to receive psychological evaluation. I will
>accept your offer to take the psychological evaluation under the
>same terms given to Mr. Bruce Maccabee for the polygraph test.

>Please find a local psychologist of your choosing, and pre-pay
>for each session in advance, and then have the office call me to
>set up the appointment.

>I will attend as many visits that he or she feels necessary, as
>long as you pay for each visit in advance.

>Copies of the results will be given to both you and I. You have
>my permission to place the results on the Internet.

>I await your response.

Nice try, guy. I presume the point is to change the subject,
even at the cost of sounding witless. Still, these words:

Alas, you're responsible, as are all of us, for our own health,
mental or otherwise (though you're welcome to pay my dental
bills if you wish to, as I go through complicated, expensive
work on my choppers). But then, of course, you know this quite
well, and which is why neither Wendy nor I offered (or, for that
matter, thought to offer) to pay for yours. All we did was offer
advice. Advice is cheap. The help you need may not be. Good luck
with it, though.


Cheers,

Jerry Clark








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   Mar > Mar 24

                Re: Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices? -

From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 11:09:50 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 11:30:55 -0500
Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices? -


>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 23:37:49 -0500
>Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices?

>>From: Barry Taylor <stingray.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 11:15:00 +1100
>>Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices?

<snip>

>>If close, then this means that the flares were dropped at a
>>close distance behind the mountain and not 70-80 miles.

>>Your thoughts.

>What you have pointed out here contradicts my suggestion, made
>in the latter half of the ADDENDUM to my Phoenix report (see web
>site http://brumac.8k.com), that a single A-10 dropped flares 2
>through 9 (as labelled in the report). However, there were
>several airplanes in flying home from maneuvers (I don't know
>how many). They could have been flying side by side, separated
>by several miles, so, if they all dropped flares over a short
>time interval as they headed eastward toward Davis-Monthan AFB
>in Tucson, the flares could have taken any chance "formation",
>including an arc shape.

>I recently rechecked the triangulation using the Krzysten and
Rairdon videos. The baseline of the triangle is made by the
distance between the K and R locations, namely about 32 miles.
Using the sighting lines to the lights I again find a
considerable distance (80 or more miles) to the lights.

>K (and others) have claimed the lights were north of the
>Estrella range. If that were so R would have been looking almost
>due west at the collection of lights "end" on. In this case the
>lights in the R video would not have had a "shape" similar to
>the array in the K video (the "Krzysten Arc") . However, the
>fact is that the array in the R video looks very similar to the
>"Kzysten Arc." Furthermore, R was not looking due west but
>southwest. These videos were both obtained at about 10 PM, March
>13, 1997. Hence it is likely that they both show the same
>lights, in which case, they were about 80 miles away.


I'm going to keep asking these questions until one or both of
you answer them. Explain why these flares were released at such
an altitude as to be seen 60-80 miles away in Pheonix when the
flares are ineffective above 1,000 to 1,500 feet for ground
illumination [the reason they would be deployed in the first
place].Releasing these flares at altitudes above these altitudes
is a waste of the flare's use. The specs on the flares
recommends they be preset for release at a given altitude but
the flare ignites at 500-1,500 feet. Their use is for the
benifit of ground troops. Their other use is as a decoy. They
can be ejected from the aircraft and then ignite, squirreling
away from the aircraft in unpredictable directions to draw off
an Air to Air or Ground to Air heat seeking missiles.

And if the nonsense explanation that they were ejected as a
safety measure because the A-10s could not land with them
onboard is rejected, because they land with them onboard all of
the time, why then would these pilots be allowed to waste  200-
300 thousand dollars worth of flares by ejecting them at a high
altitude for no reason whatsoever.

Answer these questions first, then you can have fun with the
science. Or you can continue to ignore me.

Don Ledger








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   Mar > Mar 24

                        Re: A Velez Farewell - McCoy

From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy.nul>
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 07:15:07 -0800
Fwd Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 11:32:26 -0500
Subject: Re: A Velez Farewell - McCoy


>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 15:13:07 -0500
>Subject: A Velez Farewell

<snip>

>>Subject: Intruders Foundation Mortellaro Case Statement

<snip>

>Warmest regards and a fond farewell to all, please stay in
>touch.....

>John Velez
>_Happily_ going back to being "a little nobody."  <Hee-Haw>


Happy Trails, Kemosabe, I will stay in touch.

GT McCoy









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                       Re: A Velez Farewell - Hamilton

From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22.nul>
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 07:47:38 -0800
Fwd Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 11:37:13 -0500
Subject: Re: A Velez Farewell - Hamilton


>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 15:13:07 -0500
>Subject: A Velez Farewell

>>From: Larry W. Bryant <overtci.nul>
>>To: errol.nul
>>Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 23:16:15 -0500 (EST)
>>Subject: Intruders Foundation Mortellaro Case Statement

>>From: IFCentral.nul
>>To: undisclosed-recipients:;
>>Date: Sat, March 20, 2004 3:09 pm
>>Subject: Intruders Foundation - Case Investigation Public Statement

>>For Public Release: The James Mortellaro Case

>>March 9, 2004

<snip>

>Well, that's all folks. As EBK is fond of saying; "It's all
>there in black & white." Everything I have ever contributed to
>the List is there at the UFO UpDates Archives for anyone who
>cares to plow through it. I have stayed around long enough to
>answer any and all questions and to give everyone a chance to
>get to know me over time. I value the new friends I have made
>and I would like to thank you all from the bottom of my heart.

>It's up to the "aliens" now, whoever or whatever they eventually
>turn out to be, to drop the other shoe. I'm going to try to
>enjoy whatever time of life is left to me and I finally and
>officially pass the torch to the next runner. I am weary of the
>fight.

>I ran my best race. Hope it was good for all of you. Consider it
>all as my payback to society, a gift of public service from me
>to you. It was all worth it for me because all of you are worth
>the effort.

>Warmest regards and a fond farewell to all, please stay in
>touch.....

John,

Thank you for your contribututions as they have been very
worthwhile. My wife retired from public ufology as well about
three years ago and I know how she feels. I know how you feel as
well.

My own retirement from public ufology may come soon. As you say,
it is up to "them" to end the cover-up. Even if we do not see
this in our lifetime, it has been an adventure.


Best regards to you and your family,

Bill H







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   Mar > Mar 24

                 Ufologist "Fridge Magnet Is Alien Artefact"

From: Chris Parr <cparr.nul>
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 16:27:13 -0000
Fwd Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 17:22:39 -0500
Subject: Ufologist "Fridge Magnet Is Alien Artefact"


Award winning Ufologist believes fridge magnet is Alien Artefact

UFO Magazine UK UFO investigator of the Year Sharon Larkin has
groundbreaking testimony relating to an "Alien artefact" that
has apparently made the treacherous journey around the Universe
and embedded itself onto the paintwork of her cousins car.

http://www.newsandstar.co.uk/news/viewarticle.asp?c=190&id=83410

Throughout the years, Larkin has entertained fellow believers
with Ufological adventures over the years with many tales such
as "good aliens" at Warton Bae, porpoise ET mutilatations and a
defunct military Armaments Depot being the UKs Area 51.

At the Chorley "World without Ends" 2000 UFO conference,I had
presented conclusive evidence that Sharon Larkin was extracting
storylines from the Early X-Files episodes and incorparating
them with her own belief system and feeding these stories to the
press. British Ufology continues to ignore the "warnings from
the past".

Over the years, British ufology allowed itself to be
orchastrated by the Pro ETH - Ufo Magazine and many believed
that a published article was a recognition to their contribution
to ufology. Those who did not follow the Howden alien path were
overlooked.

Those who were concerned about recent Media articles and the
representation of British Ufology must urgently think again!


Chris Parr








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              Re: UFO Investigator & ISU Alumnus Dead - Warren

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 10:18:28 -0800
Fwd Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 00:07:56 -0500
Subject: Re: UFO Investigator & ISU Alumnus Dead - Warren


>From: Terry Groff <terry.nul>
>To: UFO Updates" <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 02:15:03 -0600
>Subject: UFO Investigator & ISU Alumnus Dead

>Source: Iowa State Daily

>http://www.iowastatedaily.com/vnews/display.v/ART/2004/03/24/4061058409b0b?in_a
rchive=1

>March 24, 2004
>UFO investigator, ISU alumnus dead

>By Scott Rank
>Daily Staff Writer

>An ISU alumnus who worked on the country's largest, most
>systematic investigation of UFOs died Thursday after a struggle
>with cancer. He was 70.

>Roy Craig, who received his doctorate in physical chemistry from
>Iowa State in 1952, was chief field investigator for The
>Colorado Project, the official government search for verifiable
>evidence for the existence of UFOs. He was highly skeptical of
>UFOs, but was fascinated by the false reports of their
>existence.

<snip>


Fellow Listers,

Here is a copy of the letter I sent to the author of the afore
mentioned article:


Dear Mr. Rank,

Thank you for your article about the life of Dr. Roy Craig and
his unfortunate passing.

In regards to the comments made by "Hal Mansfield," I'd like to
point out a few errors about UFOs that he made: For one, the
"existence" of UFOs or "Unidentified Flying Objects" has not
been in question "officially" for over six decades. The term was
created by the Air Force in the early 1950's. To use the noun
"believers" in association with UFOs is not rational. It would
be the same as saying, "believers in the Empire State Building,"
neither makes any sense.

Furthermore, one might argue that Dr. Craig "gained notoriety"
by the "subject matter" of the "Condon Report" opposed to his
position on it.

Finally, the so-called  "Condon Report," is filled with errors,
and in some instances is quite ludicrous. Moreover, there is
ample evidence that Edward Condon had a predisposed ideology in
regards to the UFO phenomenon, and was more interested in
maintaining the "status quo" then providing "unbiased scientific
methodology" to the study of said phenomenon.


Respectfully,

Frank Warren










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                           Filers Files #13 - 2004

From: George A. Filer <Majorstar.nul>
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 15:04:16 EST
Fwd Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 00:19:13 -0500
Subject: Filers Files #13 - 2004


Filers Files #13 - 2004 Skywatch Investigations
George A. Filer, Director MUFON Eastern
March 24, 2004,

Webmaster: Chuck Warren

If photos don't show up in email, try

http://www.georgefiler.com/ "Weekly files" Views


UFO's over Ohio and Mars Similar

Mars UFO Streaks By Over the Ancient Salty Sea, Mars Rock on A
Rock with face, Connecticut - Two Bright Objects Streak, New
York - UFO Photographed plus Flying Triangle, Delaware -Two Very
Fast Lights, Virginia - UFO Videotaped, Georgia - Silver Cigar,
South Carolina - Formation Races Across Sky, Florida - Orange
Sphere and Bouncing Balls, Mississippi "Flying Triangle, Ohio -
 Silver Metallic Cigar and Flying Triangle, Louisiana - Seven
Spheres Become a Triangle, Colorado - Strange Oval, New Mexico -
 Chevron UFO, California - Lights Hovering, Flying Triangle and
Disc, Washington - Fishing Vessels Observe Disc, Canada - Fire
Ball, Peru - Testimony of a Close Encounter, UK/Scotland - Disk,
England - Brilliant Trident Light, United Arab Emirates -
Diamond UFO, and Australia-UFO Hovers.

SETI Institute Uses Carrot-on-stick of Finding ET

Air Chief Marshal Lord Dowding, Commander-in-Chief of the Royal
Air Force Fighter Command during the Battle of Britain,

More than 10,000 sightings have been reported, the majority of
which cannot be accounted for by any "scientific" explanation...
I am convinced that these objects do exist and that they are not
manufactured by any nation on Earth. I can therefore see no
alternative to accepting the theory that they come from some
extraterrestrial source. Printed in Sunday Dispatch, London,
July 11, 1954.

Mars UFO Streaks By

Observing the sky with the green filter of its panoramic camera,
the Mars Exploration Rover Spirit came across a surprise: a
streak across the sky. The streak, seen in the middle of this
mosaic of images taken by the navigation and panoramic cameras,
was probably the brightest object in the sky at the time. Only
Viking 2, has a polar orbit that would fit with the north-south
orientation of the streak. Said Mark Lemmon, a rover team member
from Texas A&M University, Texas, "Is this the first image of a
meteor on Mars, or an image of a spacecraft sent from another
world during the dawn of our robotic space exploration program?
We may never know, but we are still looking for clues."

[]

Thanks to JPL. Notice similarity to Fostoria, Ohio UFO
photographed over frozen lake.

Mars - Salty Sea 'Excellent' Site to Search for Life

JPL/NASA has announced that a salty sea once washed over the
plains of Mars at the Opportunity rover's landing site, creating
a life-friendly environment more earthlike than any known on
another world. Opportunity has found evidence for the shores of
a large body of surface water which left their marks in rocks
that developed at the bottom of the sea. Opportunity found a
distinct chemical makeup in the rocks and unique layering
patterns that must have been generated by slow-moving water in
an evaporating sea, researchers said.

JPL is slow to make announcements but Filer Research Institute
and its supporters are finding strong indications for a history
of life on Mars. In recent days, the images coming from the
Rovers is extremely limited to mostly uninteresting views.
Frankly, there seems to be an effort to not make all information
available because we are finding evidence of an ecosystem on
Mars. It is quite likely living microbes are visible at this
time. Direct sunlight is available as an energy source. Some
Opportunity images indicate the fossil remains of various
crinoids, and small sea animals. Temperatures even now on Mars
are not more severe than Antarctica where life now exists. The
apparent fact that Mars once had a warm sea, indicates fish and
sea animals once existed on Mars in a warm climate. This gives
credence to the finding of symbols and letters on Martian rocks
indicating relatively intelligent humanoids.

Mars Rock on a Rock Near Face?

In examining the Rover images, there is often evidence of an
ecosystem, symbols and letters. The Spirit image shows a rock
laying on top of a rock on Mars. Analysis and color indicates
these are different separate rocks.

How likely during an explosive blast from an asteroid would a
rock land on another rock? To the right of the rock is an
apparent face laying in the sand? On its left sideof the double
rock is a white symbol 'P.' To the left is a rock chisel like
tool, that could have made the symbol.

JPL images divided the rock in half. The two large rocks
are the same rock with different views. see:

http://origin.mars5.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/spirit_p040.html

These anomalies are difficult to explain unless alien
intelligence was present to move the rock, and make carvings.
What do you think?

Connecticut - Two Bright Objects Streak

WILLINGTON - The witness saw two circular objects streak across
the sky at 7 PM on March 15, 2004. He says, "I don't know if I
saw a craft, but they were larger and brighter than shooting
stars and they moved across the sky together and then one seemed
to disappear while the other continued on straight across the
sky until I could no longer see it through the trees. The two
objects were a bright, white, yellow in color. Thanks to Peter
Davenport UFOcenter

New York - UFO Photographed plus Flying Triangle

WANTAGH - The photographer had been taking picture of the
sunset.  When developing the pictures, he saw a white sphere in
the background & enlarged it showing what appears to be a UFO at
5 PM on March 14, 2004. The white color was shaped like a sphere
but had something white spilling from underneath in the center
dropping like a tear drop. The sun was already setting well
below the object leaving it against a dark blue backdrop.
UFOcenter

LAKE GROVE - The observer went out to bring his SUV into the
garage and saw a flying dark triangular shaped object in the
western sky at 6:23 PM on March 16, 2004. He states, =98It moved
like no man made object I have ever seen with blue lights at the
corners, and it was spinning in a circular motion. Then it flew
north and just hovered there for a few minutes, then it just
took off like a flash disappearing from sight not to return
again. I was speechless! Thanks to Peter Davenport UFOcenter

Delaware -Two Very Fast Lights

NEW CASTLE   Two round white lights were seen moving very fast
horizontally across the sky at 7:30 PM on March 15, 2004. All of
a sudden one just disappeared and the other shot off in a 90
degree angle and accelerated very quickly and disappeared. A
similar report from Rhode Island for the same time and date.
PD)) UFOcenter

Virginia - UFO Videotaped

WILLIAMSBURG - Two witnesses were able to video an object that
was changing color, shape, and size. There were many lights
around the spaceship looking object with one larger brighter
light in the center. It hovered for at least two hours, but
moved slowly. At times it would move quickly and seem to
camouflage itself by getting much larger.  This siting occured
on March 12, 2004, for two hours and thirty minutes. It spun and
changed colors. One of the observers is employed by a security
department and twenty years service and I feel very trustworthy.
I feel myself to be a very honest person. Thanks to Peter
Davenport UFOcenter

Georgia - Silver Cigar

MARIETTA - On March 10, 2004 a couple was driving north on
Johnson Ferry Road at about 2:20 PM, and looked east out the
window into the clear blue sky and due east was a silver
airplane with no wings. The sky around it shimmered in kind of a
circular pattern. It didn't seem to be moving at all, and there
was no sound. After watching a couple of minutes, I wondered why
I couldn't see the wings. I'm slightly nearsighted (20/40) so I
put on my glasses to see it better. It looked the same - still
no wings. I watched about another 30 seconds or so; then it
disappeared as I watched. It didn't get smaller like it was
going away, nor did it go behind a cloud. It just kind of
clicked off. I told my husband that I think I just saw a UFO. We
got home about five minutes later and heard jets overhead.
Thanks to Peter Davenport UFOcenter

South Carolina - Formation Races Across Sky

MOUNT PLEASANT   Three amber objects in a "V" formation, one
slightly out of formation, approached from the southwest at
midnight on March 17, 2004, with a cloud ceiling at 10,000 feet.
I saw them at about 30 degrees above the horizon. They were
above the ceiling for at times and one would disappear behind a
cloud. They raced overhead to the northeast where I lost sight
at about 25 degrees above the neighbor's trees. They covered
what I would estimate 120 degrees of visible sky in about 6
seconds. Not a sound was heard. Thanks to Peter Davenport
UFOcenter

Florida - 0range Sphere and Bouncing Balls

ST. PETERSBURG   Mary Margaret Zimmer, MUFON State Section
Director is investigating a report, that at about 11 PM, on
March 14, 2004, the witness went out on her third floor balcony
and noticed a somewhat hazy night sky. She saw a sudden fuzzy
light about the size of a basketball that appeared above the
tree tops and seemed to be bouncing ping pong fashion in a
straight line from the south towards the north and was quickly
followed by two more similar lights that also flew in this
bouncing manner. She followed the three lights until they could
no longer be seen because a nearby building blocked her view.
She ran to another window but they had disappeared. Thanks to
Mary Margaret Zimmer, MUFON SSD FL, ASD

WINTER SPRINGS/OVIEDO - The witness saw a round orange sphere
that looked like a meteor moving into the atmosphere at a very
low speed, without a tail. The sphere moved very slow and made a
U shaped turn after which it faded away slowly in over ten
seconds. The object completely disappeared at 12:45 AM, on March
12, 2004. It blinked bright orange one more time then vanished,
but fifteen seconds later it reappeared but looked dim like a
star. Then, it was no longer orange colored but, we knew it
wasn't a star because it was moving until it disappeared past
the roof of an adjacent apartment building. Thanks to Peter
Davenport UFOcenter

Mississippi - Flying Triangle

MERIDIAN   Chris Shelton a teacher writes, "The last encounter
was on Thursday, February 19, 2004, when I was heading home to
Toomsuba. I live on a country road called Smith Spur. I was
coming to the end of Will Garret Rd., when I noticed up in the
sky there was this mysterious triangular shaped vessel hovering
at tree top level. I pulled over on the side of the road and
watched for five minutes as the vessel just sat there taking no
notice as I watched through the windshield of my car. It was a
solid black flying triangle and it stood out against the bright
night sky with three white lights underneath near each point. In
the center of this triangle of lights was a red flashing light.
The vessel was hovering over a small pond at 6:45 PM. I didn't
think much else of it, so I started the car and left as I wanted
to get home. Thanks to Chris Shelton

Ohio - Silver Metallic Cigar and Flying Triangle

LYNDHURST   In bright sunlight, driving north on Brainard road,
just before Mayfield on February 11, 2004, at 8:22 AM., I
noticed a long, silver object to left center, about 50 degrees
above horizon. I stopped at the traffic light and saw the object
had no wings or tail assembly. It was 1/2 inch in length at
arm's length. It had high reflectivity with one dark spot midway
on the body. The object kept a constant side on view, rapidly
receded away to the north in less than 5 seconds and
disappeared. It did not bank and turn, there was no vapor trail,
and I heard no sound.

Fostoria UFO video taped on February 28, 2004, by George Ritter.
Note ice on pond eliminating possibility of insects. Similar to
photo taken over Mars by Rover.

FOSTORIA - The witness was talking to his brother on the phone
and as he walked outside at 6:23 PM, he saw a triangle shaped
object flying slowly over his house on March 16, 2004. It flew
only as high as the tree tops and had pale yellow lights at each
triangle tip and a red light in the middle of the craft. All
lights were underneath the craft and it made absolutely no sound
and left no trail of any kind. It flew from the southeast to the
northwest over the city. I live on the east side of the city. I
watched it as far as I could see it. I was describing the whole
event to my brother on the phone. What could this have been? I
have never seen anything like it. Thanks to Peter Davenport
UFOcenter

Louisiana - Seven Spheres Become a Triangle

NEW ORLEANS   At approximately 9:15 PM on March 16, 2004, the
witness was walking his dog in River Ridge, a suburb of New
Orleans and glanced up to see a group of grayish white spheres
traveling through the sky. They were silent, and fast as the
whole event took less than ten seconds. He watched them fly
overhead, and just as they did, the line broke formation and
formed a triangle with one sphere in the middle. I noticed as
they moved they sort of fluttered, not much though, as if they
were being knocked by slight currents in the air. They appeared
small to me, and I probably wouldn't have noticed them had there
not been so many of them. I will admit that I have never
believed in these sorts of things. I am not a sci-fi fan or
anything like that. I am still skeptical of what I saw, but I
will certainly never forget it. One more fact to add to my
skepticism, I live within 10 miles of the New Orleans
International Airport. Thanks to Peter Davenport UFOcenter

Colorado - Strange Oval

DENVER   On Tuesday, March 9th, and at 4:15 PM in the vicinity
of 32nd and Federal the witness was walking his dog and almost
directly overhead spotted a round gray object moving to the
northeast at a fairly high speed. The object was the size of a
BB at arm's length. To the northeast there were five similar
objects that were silent and flying in a loose formation at less
than 5,000 feet.

The pilot of a light plane flying south might have seen these
craft if he were looking up. I believe the objects were At 4:45
PM, I spotted a black cylindrical object with a white tail below
it hanging motionless about 30 degrees in the sky. Looking at it
through my binoculars it appeared like a cluster of orange
balloons with red lights on them. The white tail appeared rigid.
I watched for about five minutes as the object began to rise
higher in the sky. I am a MUFON member and watch the sky quite a
bit. The 6 objects I saw did not appear any different than ones
I have seen in UFO films and videos shot worldwide over the
years. Witness is MUFON member in Colorado. Thanks to Peter
Davenport UFOcenter

New Mexico - Chevron UFO

ALBUQUERQUE - There was a sighting at 8:08 PM on March 16, 2004,
in what appeared to be a chevron shaped formation of eight
diamond lights flying overhead. The size was that of three
Airbus 300 aircraft flying in tight formation, and not a sound
was herd. I would gage the speed of the craft at or clots to
300knts. Altitude around 800/1000 feet. I could clearly see the
diamond shaped lights and could make out the reflective shape of
what I would call the leading edge. The fly by lasted only 25
seconds no course changes were seen. Thanks to Peter Davenport
UFOcenter

California - Lights Hovering, Flying Triangle and Disc

VALENCIA - The observer spotted an unusual hovering object in
the distance at 10 PM on March 14, 2004. The shape was somewhat
difficult to see, as it was far away, and high, in a dark sky.
However, three lights, in a horizontal row, each light seemingly
was multicolored with white, pink, and green. It stayed in the
same position until I went to bed and could have been a possible
blimp? The husband is an astrogeophysicist and said that it was
the closest thing he's ever seen to a UFO.

LOS ANGELES - The witness saw a flying triangle with unfamiliar
red, green, and blue light patterns. The object had an abnormal
flight path at 8 PM on March 8, 2004 and flew low, then high
over the area. The lights changed from white to colored lights.
We've been seeing this thing for a couple of weeks. It was very
strange and didn't look like a police helicopter because it flew
too high for that.

R. David Anderson writes, "I have been seeing these UFO's while
working on a sunroom addition on our house. I noticed one twice
last week while I was working and on March 22, 2004. I finished
up around 4 PM, and rested with my new 4.3 digital camera
nearby. After about 35 minutes, I saw the UFO to the north
flying at about 30 mph and was probably about at least 250 feet
high. It's direction of travel was toward the Southeast. I
picked up the camera and began to take pictures, following it's
movement as it went from the northern sky to the eastern sky in
about 45 seconds. It went behind a large tree. When it came back
into my view it had climbed much higher and began to dim as it
moved farther away. R. David Anderson.  My seven year old
daughter also saw this UFO. Thanks to R. David Anderson

Washington - Fishing Vessels Observe Disc

NEAH BAY - Four fishing vessels 50 to 60 miles off the west coast of Neah=
 Bay watched a disc for half an hour. What appeared to be a discus shaped=
 large object with very bright lights was seen at 6:23 PM on March 16, 2004.=
 The object had mostly white lights, but there were also red and green=
 lights that seemed to be mimicking the vessels running lights for=
 navigational purposes. The object would move at extreme rates of speed back=
 and forth in a horizontal direction. Then, occasionally at a high rate of=
 speed it flew straight up into the sky. The object seemed to hover above=
 one of the vessels in particular and then flew straight up into the sky and=
 was gone. I was told this by several of the eye witnesses.

SEATTLE - The observer was driving south on I-5 and noticed a
jet flying east across the sky when another jet appeared without
wings at 1 PM on March 8, 2004. As I watched it more, there was
no jet, and the trail wasn't getting any longer. It was
completely horizontal and fairly high in the sky, and as I
looked at it more over a period of about a minute, I swear it
looked like a perfect row of small windows going down the length
of it. It also seemed to have a perfect, long, cylindrical
shape, with the windows going down the middle. I could tell it
was cylindrical because the top and bottom kind of faded as if
there was some roundness to the object. I couldn't tell how high
it was in the sky, but the object looked enormous. After about
two minutes of watching, the object performed a four second fade
out from being completely visible to disappearing completely.
I've never witnessed the trail of a jet disappear that quick
after being visible for that long. Thanks to Peter Davenport
UFOcenter

Canada - Fire Ball

ONION LAKE, SASKATCHEWAN - On the evening of March 21, 2004 at
about 8:00 or 8:30 as I was sitting in my car, I saw what looked
like a comet as it appeared within seconds at first it looked
blue and then turned to a yellow orangey color and then it
disappeared. It came from the east . I am in Onion Lake
Saskatchewan located 30 minutes south of Lloydminster. HBBC UFO
Research would like to point out that what the witness saw was a
Fireball. Many folks saw the same object that evening. Thanks to
Brian Vike, Director 250 845 2189 email: hbccufo.nul

Website: http://www.hbccufo.com

Peru - Testimony of a Close Encounter

LIMA - Ricardo Gonzalez writes, The Air Forces of several
countries like Chile, Uruguay and Pera have created specialized
UFO military research departments. In Pera, the former hub of
the Inca Empire, close encounters have been recorded on numerous
occasions. The question is: Why are they observing us? I was 14
in 1988, when I saw a luminous object shaped like a drop of
water that moved silently west towards the Pacific Ocean. The
press and TV carried it and I became more interested. I was sure
these had a direct connection with extraterrestrial
intelligences. I did possess that unexplainable certainty but
had to wait for another five years to confirm these sensations.
In October 1993, I was enrolled in marketing and administration
courses at the Instituto Peruano de Marketing, and closing my
eyes and settled myself in the chair when a strange voice in my
head said, "Don't stop seeking, we are extraterrestrial beings
and are coming in contact with you,. "You will undergo a
preparation that will lead you to get to know us physically. At
that point I said: "I need proof to know that this is true. And
the "voice responded by suggesting: "Go up to the roof and
there you will see us=A6My younger brother Pepe came up with me
and shouted.

A UFO! A UFO! That light is moving! And, indeed, a concentrated
or solid point of red light appeared that was shaped like a
boomerang. For some instants it remained above us. Then, it
returned traveling east towards the Andes mountains. Upon
listening to my brother's screams, my parents and sister
Mariella, also came up to observe it slowly leave in a silent
manner. In that moment I "heard the voice telling me something
like: "We come with good intentions. Just as we have proceeded
today with you, we have done so with others and we'll continue
doing so in the future so that you can (collectively) gradually
become aware of our presence. You will not only be in contact
with us. You will also be in contact with other beings that are
waiting for you. I wondered what they were trying to tell me
with this. Then, there was silence and the UFO was gone. This
was the beginning of the contact and as the years went by I was
able to understand. Everything would be different after this
unique experience. To be continued. Translated by Giorgio
Piacenza

England - Brilliant Trident Light and Diamond

EAST LONDON   This trident shaped light hung in the West-North-
West sky which we, my wife and 2 children, at 6:23 PM on March
16, 2004, observed returning home from Heathrow, a distance of
25 miles. No stars where visible at the time, although the moon
was full in the East. I have observed an object exactly the same
in appearance last year in the morning sky which was seen by a
dozen other people waiting on the train platform with me.

NOTTINGHAM - On February 25, 2004, at 11:20 PM, the witness was
having a cigarette and noticed a very bright light that looked
like a diamond shape with the bright light at the front, at the
top was a green light but that was not flashing. Then, at the
bottom there was an orange light, which was also not flashing.
The back light was flashing that was white but not as bright as
the front light. The lights on it must have been bright because
I saw the wings of the craft outlined by the light. The wings
were a very sharp triangle with a haze around it. The movements
were just too fast to have been any of our aircraft. It must
have seen something I wasn't supposed to have seen.

BLACKPOOL - I got off a bus and saw a gold object moving across
the sky on February 29, 2004, at 4 PM, with no lights or wings.
The object was cartwheeling slowly across sky. (Rolling across
sky looked kind of like this!  > 8 0 8 0 8 0, first two balloon
shapes but as it spun you saw one balloon shape then two...) It
went slowly across the sky. I was near home, so I wanted to get
witnesses, but as I ran stuff fell out of my bag in the street,
and I lost sight of the object. It made no sound and left no
trails. I took photos with my rubbish camera, but only one
picture revealed the object. Thanks to Peter Davenport UFOcenter

United Arab Emirates - Diamond UFO

DUBAI - The observer spotted a clear diamond shape thing with
blue and orange light that came close to landing, but did not
land at 2 AM, on March 16, 2004. The light was true and real
bright blue orange light, then the shape of the ship started to
appear like a diamond. It started to close down to the face of
the earth, and suddenly disappeared away like lightning.

Australia - UFO Hovers

PERTH - A disc shaped object flew from a nearby hill then
overhead in a =98V' formation. It hovered for about three minutes,
then flew over our heads in a suburban area in daylight at 12:24
PM on March 14, 2004. It flew at aslow pace then sped off
extremely fast.

NEW JERSEY UFO-PARANORMAL CONFERENCE

BORDENTOWN, Days Inn on March 27 & 28, 2004. There is a great
line-up of speakers: Dr. Michael Salla, Kenn Thomas, Rosemary
Guiley, Tom Van Flandern, Ray Cecot, Dr. T. Peter Park, A. & L.
Volpe, and Jay Solomon Contactee. For full information, visit
http://www.drufo.org

SETI Institute Uses Carrot-on-stick of Finding ET

BOSTON   Author, publisher and UFO/ET reality proponent,
Claude DiDomenica of claudescommentary.com, submitted an open
letter to Paul Allen, co-founder of Microsoft. The letter was
prompted by a March 21, 2004 article in The Sydney Morning
Herald in which the Paul G. Allen Foundations donated $13.5
million to the SETI (Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence)
Institute towards construction of the Allen Telescope Array or
ATA. This brings Mr. Allen's total donations to SETI to a
whopping $25 million for this project. So, what is the big
concern about funding for a radio telescope?  DiDomenica
explains. "I'm concerned that the SETI Institute is using the
carrot-on-stick scenario of finding radio signals from
extraterrestrial civilizations. "At the sametime, SETI maintains
that '...the lack of credible physical evidence has made it
difficult for serious scientists to believe that UFOs have
anything to do with extraterrestrial visitors.'" DiDomenica
disputes this statement as absurd and untrue. In fact, he has
compiled a list of credentialed UFO/ET reality proponents.
These scientists include such people as:  * Dr. Edgar
Mitchell, Apollo 14 astronaut * Dr. Bruce Maccabee, physicist

"The DiDomenica Equation" disputes Frank Drake of SETI, who
promotes the belief that the best chance for making contact
with extra-solar intelligent beings is via radio telescopes.
 "The DiDomenica Equation," DiDomenica quotes a March 1, 2004
 Wisconsin Technology Network article that states:  "According
to Drake, it is possible to send a 60-second telegram at the
speed of light to the far side of the galaxy for only a
 dollar's worth of energy."  DiDomenica points out by rough
calculation "Drake's telegram will take 75,000 years to reach
its intended recipient. Therefore, it would take 150,000 years
round trip to get a reply!" He finds it absurd that some
scientists still cling to the notion that the vastness of space
prohibits interstellar travel, thus making radio signals the
best way of finding ET life in the cosmos. DiDomenica points
out, "It is obvious the ET beings visiting us circumvent the
too long a time it would take light-speed barrier, in traveling
here."  DiDomenica has come up with The DiDomenica Equation,
which goes as follows: 'Institutionalized absurdity by
credentialed scientists does not equal truth.'The reali=D8=F8 ty is
that not only do ET beings exist, but they are here visiting
Earth NOW. claudescommentary.nul
 http://claudescommentary.com/media

For This Research To Continue Your Support Is Critical

Dear Readers - Filer's Files has been brought to you free on a
weekly basis for seven years. As of January 2004, I'm requesting
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the date of issue. These reports and comments are not
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   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   Mar > Mar 25

              Re: Tycoon Funds Hunt For Alien Life - Davenport

From: Peter B. Davenport - NUFORC <director.nul>
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 13:18:18 -0800
Fwd Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 00:22:04 -0500
Subject: Re: Tycoon Funds Hunt For Alien Life - Davenport


>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 06:52:36 -0800
>Subject: Re: Tycoon Funds Hunt For Alien Life


>>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 19:22:27 +0000
>>Subject: Re: Tycoon Funds Hunt For Alien Life

>>>From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>To: - UFO UpDates Subscribers -
>>>Subject: UFO UpDate: Tycoon Funds Hunt For Alien Life
>>>Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 11:53:01 -0500

>>>Source: BBC OnLine

>>>http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/3556873.stm

>>>22 March, 2004

>>>Tycoon Funds Hunt For Alien Life

>>>Paul Allen, the co-founder of software titan Microsoft, is
>>>ploughing a slice of his fortune into the search for life on
>>>other planets.

>>>Mr Allen is donating $13.5m to the California-based Seti
>>>Institute.

>>>The money will be used to create a radio telescope array
>>>comprising more than 200 dishes which will measure signals from
>>>space.

>>Too bad he doesn't give a lousy $1 million to UFO research. He
>>would get a far bigger return on his money.

>> - Dick

>Dick, Et AL,

>Perhaps Allen would donate money to UFO research - his interests
>are obvious - has anyone asked?

>Frank

Frank, Dick, et al,

I have submitted three requests for funding... one directly to
Paul Allen, and two to the Allen Foundation... and the only
responses I have received have been polite rejection letters.

Given Allen's rumored interest in the subject of ufology, I do
not understand his failure to express public interest in the
subject. It seems ironic that he is willing to support the SETI
project, to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars, but
apparently is not interested in supporting a similar search
within a hundred miles of our planet! It is an interesting
statement that Jimmy Hendricks and rock 'n roll music take
precedence over the question of alien presence on our planet!!

Interestingly, the Allen Foundation states that an organization
applying for funding MUST have 501 (C) 3 status as a federal
non-profit. However, when one answers the preliminary questions
on the Foundation website, indicating non-status in that
capacity, the response one receives is that of a qualifying
status!

I anticipate applying again, either to the Allen Foundation, or
to Allen directly, for funding for a specific project. I will
share the results with the list.

Peter Davenport

--
Peter B. Davenport, Director
National UFO Reporting Center
P. O. Box 45623
University Station
Seattle, WA 98145
E-Mail: director.nul
Web:   www.UFOCENTER.com
Reporting Hotline: (206) 722-3000








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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   Mar > Mar 25

             Re: Jerry Black To Polygraph Bruce Maccabee - Hatch

From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 13:59:54 -0800
Fwd Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 00:23:25 -0500
Subject: Re: Jerry Black To Polygraph Bruce Maccabee - Hatch


>From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 18:02:32 +0100
>Subject: Re: Jerry Black To Polygraph Bruce Maccabee

>>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 14:50:57 -0800
>>Subject: Re: Jerry Black To Polygraph Bruce Maccabee

<snip>

>>For the last 8 or 10 hours or so, I was treated to the never-
>>ending renditions of electrical buzzers, lights, flashers, and
>>all associated whukku until my shift simply ended.


>Larry

>I am intrigued by your answer. Could you explain a little more?

>Gildas Bourdais


Hello Gildas:

Please forgive that beer-sodden entry of mine!

I had gone through an awful day at work, that's all. Nothing to
do with a UFO sightings or the like.


Best

- Larry










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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   Mar > Mar 25

                            Ironwood Michigan UFO

From: Terry Groff <terry.nul>
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 16:27:25 -0600
Fwd Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 00:27:54 -0500
Subject: Ironwood Michigan UFO


The Ironwood Daily Globe - Michigan

A Confirmation On That UFO

http://www.ironwooddailyglobe.com/0324tidb.htm

Published Wednesday, March 24, 2004 1:22:39 PM Central Time

Ellen Pfeiffer of Ironwood called the Globe to say she and a
friend had seen the bright lights reported by a Kimball, Wis.,
man as an unidentified flying object Sunday evening.

Pfeiffer said she and Darlene Korhonen were coming out of the
Pioneer Park Apartments around 6:15 p.m. when they saw something
in the sky that was neither a star nor an airplane.

"It was absolutely awesome," Pfeiffer said. "I never saw
anything so bright. We couldn't figure out what it was."

Forrest Wiedbrauk of Kimball told the Iron County Sheriff's
Department he had seen 12 bright lights over his house. The
lights turned orange and the craft took off over the barn,
according to the report.







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   Mar > Mar 25

                     UFOs & Fairies/Legends/Supernatural

From: Ray Dickenson <editor.nul>
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 17:31:03 +0000
Fwd Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 07:38:54 -0500
Subject: UFOs & Fairies/Legends/Supernatural


>From: lawrie_williams.nul
>To: Ray Dickenson <ray.nul>
>Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 10:00:44 +1000
>Subject: Re: (forteana) UFO's and Fairies/Legends/Supernatural

>>>There are numerous reports of flying craft in the 1940's
>>>to '70's manned by little grey men.

>>>In one account some tried to grab a truck driver and he
>>>noted their stench.

>>You've got a point commonly noted, but not much remarked on by
>>investigators.

>>That "smell" observation is embarrassingly common - "sulfur-like,
>>burning cardboard, rotten cabbage" - which _should_ lead someone
>>to surmise re the second best chemistry for life - sulfur based.

>>Or maybe we're being visited by relatives of the Brassica family?

>If you are interested, there was an incident where a "fairy
>train" was observed on a beach near Cornwall in England.
>This was more than a century ago. They described the smell
>as being like "freshly broken hot coal". I think this could
>lead to identifying more closely the precise chemicals involved.
>Lawrie Williams

Lawrie I think you're quite right - we now have :- "burning
cardboard" (sulfurous-gassing glue probably) plus "rotten
eggs/rotten cabbages" - from many modern sightings/contacts,
plus "freshly broken hot coal" (seem to remember _that_ smells
sulfurous too) from recent history, plus innumerable "sulfur"
reports from the past [plus of course the "sulfur and brimstone"
from ancient past].

We humans eat many chemicals (and we can produce sulfurous
gasses as a result - see beans & brassica again), although our
basic life-process is `carbon-oxygen' - but we don't have to eat
coal or diamonds.

Others could also be `carbon-oxygen' with slightly more sulfur
producing elements - or maybe alternative process based on
`iron-sulfur' - although they wouldn't have to eat metals.

Why aren't the chemical traces (smells) involved in
sightings/contacts being checked out? Maybe the establishment
already knows the facts?


Cheers

Ray D
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Perceptions" http://www.perceptions.couk.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~







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   Mar > Mar 25

                       UFO News March 2004 (Australia)

From: Sheryl Gottschall <gottscha.nul>
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 13:48:10 +1000
Fwd Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 07:43:54 -0500
Subject: UFO News March 2004 (Australia)


UFO News   March 2004   (Australia)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
A report on the activities of UFO Research Queensland Inc.
Brisbane, Australia. www.uforq.asn.au
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Sightings/Encounters/Investigations
Since our last e-newsletter in November 2003 we have received 21
reports of UFOs. Some of the sightings occurred as far north as
Bundaberg, as far west as Perth, as far south as Tasmania and as
far away as Stockholme. It's amazing how people find us.

Here's some of what has been reported:

A large bat shape with outstretched wings gliding slowly and
silently over the nearby power lines, a solid silver metallic
crescent disappearing into a black rain cloud, seven reddish-
pink stars moving erratically in a group across the sky for
eleven minutes, a bright blue fluorescent golfball-sized light
with a tail streaking behind it moving low over mud flats before
shooting off, two green lights the colour of traffic signals
shining on the doors of a house on a rural property and a
further two in the bush outside, a shooting star with a blue
aura and a tail that lit up the witness's surroundings as well
as inside his home, a 30ft disk shape with two oblong portholes
moving about 300ft above the ground letting off a white vapour
before disappearing in a shower of red and green sparks.


Close Encounters:

Reports of close encounters with greys and other strange beings,
missing time, the appearance of unexplained marks on the body
and bizarre dreams of humans on spacecraft in beds lined up like
dominos continue to trickle into our association at a slow but
consistent rate. So what does it all mean? Although reports
continue to flow, the collective UFO community has still to set
rigorous protocols, develop procedures and then actually apply
them to research in this area. Until such time expect confusion
to continue to reign on this subject.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Media
Radio 4BC

The Paranormal Panel show has lately been evolving into
discussions of broader subjects from what's new in space
exploration to earthquakes, sleep paralysis, exorcism, ghost
reports and of course UFO sightings. One of the UFO reports that
flowed over the airways recently was that of a man who was
taking the washing in late at night when he heard a buzzing
sound. What he then observed was a 100ft dome-shaped object over
his neighbours house emitting blue and white lights through a
very low cloud cover. This occurred in 1988 and he had not
reported it, again demonstrating that people still very much
feel the need to keep the lid on their experiences.

Listen to the show every Friday 9pm Qld time on Radio 4BC
(1116 on the AM dial) or via streaming audio at:

4bc.com.au/sites/4bc/RunScript.asp?p=ASP\~Pg0.asp

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

UFO Encounter Journal (February/March 2004)

Members will find the latest issue of UFO Encounter in their
mailboxes within the next few days. In this issue we step
bravely out into that dark and eerie land known as "the fringe
of Ufology" as we don our explorers outfits, mosquito repellent
and sit with backs to campfires while we percolate over the
following articles in the flickering light:

The Little People
Strangely bizarre and drawing you in the more you read, this is
a first hand account of a Gold Coast woman's fantastic
encounters with small beings who fit the folkloric description
of "gnomes" or "dwarfs". About 2 1/2 to 3ft tall these beings
were described by the woman as "cold, cruel and dispassionate",
far from the usual friendly wee folk of lore, and the disturbing
experiences with them led both her and her daughter to
eventually question their own sanity.

Tutankhamen's Skull
Could the strange cube shape within Pharaoh Tut's skull reveal
that he and his ancestors were genetically engineered alien
hominid entities? Why does this concept upset Egyptologists to
the point of howling from the rooftops. With the bitter feud
among Egyptologists will we ever get any clear answers on
anything Egyptian?

The Underground People
How would you feel about being the descendant of small ugly
creatures with eyes like demons who lived underground and
regularly disturbed the dead? It's something you might not want
to advertise but could old Germanic tales of underground people
be providing a snapshot of our family history?

Timeslips and Portals
Have you ever felt disoriented? Well if you were on a
kaleidoscopic time trip you might just have reason to be.
Slipping from the Palace of Versails to Suffolk in England then
through Haiti and the Bermuda Triangle while moving backwards in
time can certainly take one to dizzying heights. Reports of time
slips have occurred throughout the ages and have been reported
from many places across the globe.

The Phoenix Lights
Can the notion that people and events are put into our paths for
specific purposes extend to UFO sightings and ET encounters? If
so what does that mean? In 1997 lights were seen in the sky over
Phoenix, Arizona that, among other things, had an uncanny
transformational effect on the lives of those who saw them.
Could there be a strange metaphysical connection between UFOs
and humans that challenges us to dig deeper into our very souls
and ask - what's this all about, really?

Living Within The Questions
Do questions about outer space have an effect on our inner
space? If so, what are the questions we are asking and where
might they lead us?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Membership to UFO Research Qld

Membership to UFORQ entitles you to a subscription to our bi-
monthly journal UFO Encounter; a discount entry fee to our
monthly public meetings, conferences & seminars; and access to
our vast lending library complete with books, local and
international exchange publications as well as plenty of videos.

Membership details at:

uforq.asn.au/about/memberpage.html

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Free Sample Journal

You can view a sample issue of UFO Encounter with our
compliments at:

uforq.asn.au/publications/publications.html

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Contact details:

Find us on the web at uforq.asn.au

Email: info.nul
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~








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   Mar > Mar 25

               Re: Ufologist "Fridge Magnet Is Alien Artefact"

From: Walt Williams <walt_williams.nul>
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 04:11:00 +0000
Fwd Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 07:46:33 -0500
Subject: Re: Ufologist "Fridge Magnet Is Alien Artefact"


>From: Chris Parr <cparr.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 16:27:13 -0000
>Subject: Ufologist "Fridge Magnet Is Alien Artefact"

>Award winning Ufologist believes fridge magnet is Alien Artefact

>UFO Magazine UK UFO investigator of the Year Sharon Larkin has
>groundbreaking testimony relating to an "Alien artefact" that
>has apparently made the treacherous journey around the Universe
>and embedded itself onto the paintwork of her cousins car.

>http://www.newsandstar.co.uk/news/viewarticle.asp?c=190&id=83410

<snip>

Hello Chris Parr,

I loved the letter, and it is classic internet history, heh,
heh. So you busted her chops for snagging X--File ideas and
presenting them as ET truths?

In 1992 I busted X-File writers for grabbing alt.alien.research
usenet threads for show segments,








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   Mar > Mar 25

             "One Day Getaway" Could Take You Out Of This World

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 07:50:38 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 07:50:38 -0500
Subject: "One Day Getaway" Could Take You Out Of This World




Source: KOAA TV - Colorado Springs/Pueblo

http://www.koaa.com/news/view.asp?ID33

3/24/2004


A "One Day Getaway" Could Take You Out Of This World

As more malls go up, and chain stores expand, finding out of the
ordinary destinations becomes more difficult. But if you're
willing to get away for a day, Colorado holds some very unique
spots.

One stretch fitting the bill, is Highway 17 in the San Luis
Valley. UFO sightings and some reptiles that look out of place
in the shadow of snow capped mountains.

The UFO watchtower was put up about five years ago, mostly as a
joke after the land- owners heard stories of unexplained
phenomenon in the air over this valley. They thought it would be
a fun attraction. Little did they know it would attract UFO
trackers from around the world, and that they'd have experiences
adding them to the ranks of believers.

Stan Becker of the watchtower explains, "We seen some crystals
in the skies and somebody said man look at that star, it's just
going like heck and we thought it was a falling star. And then
it took off and then it stopped, and then it went a different
way and did flip-flops and we said man that is really strange.
There was about 15 people who seen it."

Now this is identifiable, but it seems alien here in Colorado.
Just a few miles down the road from the UFO tower you can find a
couple hundred alligators living in water from a geo thermal
spring. They were brought here to dispose of waste from a fish
farm, but so many people wanted to see them the business added
on the title of attraction.

So if you want to delve into the unexplained, and out of place
Colorado's Highway 17 is the place to go. The road runs south
from Salida and north from Alamosa.







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   Mar > Mar 25

                Re: Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices? -

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 00:10:52 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 07:53:23 -0500
Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices? -


>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 11:09:50 -0400
>Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices?

>>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 23:37:49 -0500
>>Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices?

<snip>

>>What you have pointed out here contradicts my suggestion, made
>>in the latter half of the ADDENDUM to my Phoenix report (see web
>>site http://brumac.8k.com), that a single A-10 dropped flares 2
>>through 9 (as labelled in the report). However, there were
>>several airplanes in flying home from maneuvers (I don't know
>>how many). They could have been flying side by side, separated
>>by several miles, so, if they all dropped flares over a short
>>time interval as they headed eastward toward Davis-Monthan AFB
>>in Tucson, the flares could have taken any chance "formation",
>>including an arc shape.

>>I recently rechecked the triangulation using the Krzysten and
>>Rairdon videos. The baseline of the triangle is made by the
>>distance between the K and R locations, namely about 32 miles.
>>Using the sighting lines to the lights I again find a
>>considerable distance (80 or more miles) to the lights.

>>K (and others) have claimed the lights were north of the
>>Estrella range. If that were so R would have been looking almost
>>due west at the collection of lights "end" on. In this case the
>>lights in the R video would not have had a "shape" similar to
>>the array in the K video (the "Krzysten Arc") . However, the
>>fact is that the array in the R video looks very similar to the
>>"Kzysten Arc." Furthermore, R was not looking due west but
>>southwest. These videos were both obtained at about 10 PM, March
>>13, 1997. Hence it is likely that they both show the same
>>lights, in which case, they were about 80 miles away.>

>I'm going to keep asking these questions until one or both of
>you answer them. Explain why these flares were released at such
>an altitude as to be seen 60-80 miles away in Pheonix when the
>flares are ineffective above 1,000 to 1,500 feet for ground
>llumination [the reason they would be deployed in the first
>place].Releasing these flares at altitudes above these altitudes
>is a waste of the flare's use. The specs on the flares
>recommends they be preset for release at a given altitude but
>the flare ignites at 500-1,500 feet. Their use is for the
>benifit of ground troops. Their other use is as a decoy. They
>can be ejected from the aircraft and then ignite, squirreling
>away from the aircraft in unpredictable directions to draw off
>an Air to Air or Ground to Air heat seeking missiles.

According to National Air Guard spokespeople in the summer of
1997, the flares were released at an unusually high altitude.
Capt. Eileen Benz, spokesperson for the Arizona National Guard,
and the person who discovered that flares had been dropped that
evening by the Maryland National Guard (Snowbirds), flares were
dropped at an altitude of 15,000 ft. Capt. Drew Sullins,
spokesman for the MD Nat. Guard. said a squad of A-10 using the
Bary Goldwater training range had "dumped several flares" at
high altitude.

The argument presented by Ledger is that it would be stupid or
ridiculous to drop flares at such a high altitude for
operational use, which s true if the operational use is ground
illumination for ground troops. (However, for ground
illumination when night vision devices are used they could be
higher... see below.) However, if the flares were being dumped
before landing then they were being discarded, and not used
operationally, so they could be dumped at any convenient
altitude (high enough so they would burn out before reaching the
ground). Hence the argument that the lights couldn't be flares
because they wouldn't be lit up at such a low alttude des not
apply here because they weren't being used operationally when
they were ejected.

On the other hand, I can **imagine** why one might want to drop
flares at high altitude, for whatever its worth: to provide
lighting of the ground when the A-10's (or ground trooped) were
using night vision devices to attack ground targets. The idea
would be to light the flares at a high altitude and then fly at
a much lower altitude. True, the light reaching the ground would
be dimmer than if the flares were lower, but if the night vision
devices were sensitive enough that might be enough light and,
because the flares are high, the illumination would cover a
large area.. At any rate, one might not want the flares to be
below the planes because then the flares would bloom out the
night vision device displays. I rush to point out that this is
an "imagining" by me, and may have nothing to do with the
dropping of flares that night.

>And if the nonsense explanation that they were ejected as a
>safety measure because the A-10s could not land with them
>onboard is rejected, because they land with them onboard all of
>the time, why then would these pilots be allowed to waste 200-
>300 thousand dollars worth of flares by ejecting them at a high
>altitude for no reason whatsoever.

Nonsense or not, logical or not, that is what was reported in
the 1997. As for the cost... AF pays about $500 each (in lots of
thousands!) from Thiokol.

>Answer these questions first, then you can have fun with the
>science. Or you can continue to ignore me.

Ignore you? How could we do that, young man?








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             Re: UFO Investigator & ISU Alumnus Dead - Maccabee

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 00:10:56 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 07:54:56 -0500
Subject: Re: UFO Investigator & ISU Alumnus Dead - Maccabee


>From: Terry Groff <terry.nul>
>To: UFO Updates" <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 02:15:03 -0600
>Subject: UFO Investigator & ISU Alumnus Dead

>Source: Iowa State Daily

>http://www.iowastatedaily.com/vnews/display.v/ART/2004/03/24/4061058409b0b?in_a
rchive=1

>March 24, 2004
>UFO investigator, ISU alumnus dead

>By Scott Rank
>Daily Staff Writer

>An ISU alumnus who worked on the country's largest, most
>systematic investigation of UFOs died Thursday after a struggle
>with cancer. He was 70.

>Roy Craig, who received his doctorate in physical chemistry from
>Iowa State in 1952, was chief field investigator for The
>Colorado Project, the official government search for verifiable
>evidence for the existence of UFOs. He was highly skeptical of
>UFOs, but was fascinated by the false reports of their
>existence.

<snip>

>At the end of this project, Craig and the other investigators
>released the Condor Report, one of the most important documents
>in UFO history, according to the obituary. The report stated
>scientists had nothing to gain from taking UFOs seriously and
>that the entire subject was largely useless to science.

The "Condor" Report?

I wonder what "Falcon" would have to say about that!!!

<ROFL>







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   Mar > Mar 25

                         Alien Encounters In Canada

From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO <hbccufo.nul>
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 21:18:02 -0800
Fwd Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 08:02:09 -0500
Subject: Alien Encounters In Canada


I have been talking to a very nice lady who's credibility is
outstanding. Due to the position she holds and has held. I have
deleted a number of answers and statements from her emails,
keeping her personal life private. With her permission I have
posted some of our correspondence we have had over the last
while, plus she's answered a number of questions below. There
will be more to come over the next weeks and months and I
certainly look forward to hearing her.

My deepest thanks to this lady and now a new friend.

Brian Vike - HBCC UFO Research

-----

The names have been changed to protect the people in this report:

An Alien Encounter In Canada

My name is Jane and I found your name by chance as I was surfing
the net concerning UFO phenomena's. When I was a child around 7
years old I experienced some events which to this day I can't
forget. I'm now 44 years old, graduated from the Canadian
Forces when I was 17 years old, have a University degree. I can
tell you that I don't have any hallucinations or that I'm not
schizophrenic and that I swear that the following statements are
true occurrences that I experienced.

#1 - I was sitting on the back steps of my grandparents home
looking towards the large field in front of me. Suddenly, I
noticed at a distance of approximately 50 feet a triangular
object striped in different colors just hovering approximately
30 feet above the ground. Then slowly it started to descend to
about 1 foot above ground. The striped colors seemed to move as
the colors were changing colors. I ran inside and asked my
father if he had the camera, unfortunately he didn't but he came
outside just to see what was going on. Needless to say whatever
it was, it was gone. Afterwards, in school and at home I kept
drawing the picture over and over again. My father believed me
until his dying day as he knew that I was raised to tell the
truth. To this day, no matter if I'm in the wrong I will tell
the truth even if it means "personal cost".

#2 - I remember standing outside my grandparents home under the
kitchen window. They had a big green square house and my
grandfather had his "Barber Shop" in front of the house.
Suddenly, a big wind lifted me up gently and I remember being
able to see inside the kitchen on the first floor and in my
grandparents bedroom on the 2nd floor which was directly on top
of the 1st floor kitchen window. Then I descended gently back to
the ground.

#3 - At approximately the same age, I remember walking home from
visiting a school girlfriend who lived a block away. As I was
walking I felt something behind me. I turned around and there
was a thick black cloud which was following me at a very close
range approximately 8 feet from my head. It was about 3 feet
wide and 1 foot from top to bottom. I started running and I
kept turning around and it was following me. I remember being so
scared. I ran in the apartment building, up the stairs and into
my home. My mother saw how scared I was after I explained it to
her she just said, "It's nothing". Maybe that's why for twenty
years I had nightmares that something was chasing after me. But
in the dreams I just flew away. In the last few years I now turn
around in the dream and face what's coming after me, but there's
nobody there only a force. Then I wake up. I guess that's a good
sign.

#4 - When I was around 20 years old I was visiting a friend of
mine from Niger, Africa here in Ottawa. Her husband was asleep
as were the children. It was around 11:00 pm. We were both
sitting on the bed where I slept and talking about various
religious topics. The hall light was on and the accordian-type
door a bit open. Suddenly, a green light was all over the room.
Anna checked the night lamp and it was off and besides the light
bulb was white. This green light filled the room completely. She
then closed the door and we couldn't understand where this light
was coming from. We could see outside and it was pitch black as
she lived on the 20th floor. There was no light coming from
outside. We were amazed and just continued on our various
religious topics. We thought that since it was late we shouldn't
neglect the Muslim night prayer. So I went to check the time. I
said to her, "we missed it and it's now time for the morning
prayer". She thought I was joking and she came to check the time
on the TV and on her wrist watch which she had left in the
living room. We couldn't understand where did all these hours
disappear to. It felt like 1 hour at the most. What happened?
Then we returned to the bedroom completely flabbergasted. We
stayed another few minutes, then suddenly and I mean suddenly we
heard a noise outside the bedroom window and like a black
curtain that was pulled down from the top of the window to the
bottom of the window. The green light which felt so safe and
reassuring was gone at that exact same moment. At the time we
thought it was some "religious experience" and we were thankful
to God to show us "his wonders". Since then Anna went back to
Niger with her family.

Mr. Vike, I haven't told the #4 story to anyone and I've
certainly not shared these UFO experiences with anyone official.
Since then I've had "Lucid Dreams" where I'm asleep but I see
the bedroom and there's always someone in the bedroom usually
walking away and out the door. Dreams are one thing but what to
say of these various experiences. I know, I'm different as I was
"multicultural" since I was a child. I've always admired and
wear clothes from various countries. I also tremendously enjoy
cooking food from different countries. This has caused people to
look at me in a "weird way" and to make me feel different.
Especially 20 years ago! However, I never cared. I figure, it
doesn't hurt anybody including myself. Since then, I'm no longer
Muslim as I find that so many other religions have good things
to offer. I've decided to leave it all to God as it's
complicated to understand which is the correct religion. I
believe a mixture of all is probably closer to the truth. But
the main thing is the Golden Rule. Personally, I don't need to
prove to anybody anything because in my heart I already know
what's the truth and remember as I said I never lie with intent.

Additional Information:

Ok, now, to serious stuff! I found your questions fascinating
and I need to ponder about them. I've thought the same as you as
there's more to the story than what's seen on the surface. Oddly
perhaps, I'm not scared in the least about all that's happened
to me. I'm intrigued and wish I could remember everything and
truly understand what has taken place. As a child growing up I
spent many weekends with my grandparents at that same big green
square house. Many times during the week at night, my
grandmother and I would sneak out the back door from my
grandfather and go get some Deluxe Fish & Chips. P=E9p=E9re thought
m=E9m=E9re was "fat enough"! By the way, that's what I'll be eating
all weekend upon my arrival in Dieppe (part of Moncton, NB).
Delicious! Anyway, the 1st thing I would do is gaze up at the
sky and if the moon was full with that special ring of light
around it, that was it. I was terrified and didn't want to go
out. I still feel this way but not as terrified. I was really
scared and kept saying to my grandmother, "they're going to come
get me". I would cry and scream a bit hysterically. Then, after
m=E9m=E9re would comfort me and reassure me that she wouldn't let
anyone take me away, I would grab on to her clothes. All the way
there, which was 5 minutes walk, I kept turning back to see if
someone was approaching. Talk about pure paranoia! I feel in my
heart that there are good Aliens but there are really bad ones
like the greys. Whenever, I see a picture of one of them or like
in the movie, Signs, the hair on my arms and legs truly stand
up. To this day I'm terrified of them. I believe in my heart
that they torture people, something like the Concentration
Camps. I don't know why or how I know this but it's in my heart.
 I've always believed that if my heart knows the truth or if
someone says something truthful even though it might sound
completely "fantasy", if my hair stands up I know they're
telling me the truth.

Brian, you mentioned bruising, that's odd because just last
night I mentioned to Sam (the Russian boyfriend) how did I get
these bruises on the bottom front part of my right leg. I'm
thinking with all the packing and boxes I must've just hit
myself, but there are two of them. Many times at least once a
month I'll have bruising somewhere on my body. Once, I woke up
with razor like scratches all over my body (front part), that
was strange. The sheets weren't new and a friend of mine called
it "the killer bed"! When I took a shower, you could really see
them as they turned red and slightly swollen. I have to admit
this made me feel uncomfortable.

More of Jane's sighting:

I saw the triangular object in daylight. I remember returning to
the area the next day or so as I always built myself a teepee.
There was some slanted electric pole and I would put a blanket
around it and the tall grass would keep it a bit circular. The
object as I mentioned never "landed", but you'd think some
deposit of some kind would've been left. However, I was a child
of around 7, and I don't think Dad checked it out as the grass
was really tall. The colors were striped from top to bottom;
red, brown, yellow, white (I think there might've been some blue
or green). Then for instance the red became brown, the brown
white etc...What really stood out were the colors, but I
remember the reflection of the sun on what appeared to be a
shiny metallic metal around the outer edges of the object. It
was a bit blinding. Again, I had no fear whatsoever. Just
surprised. From where I was on the steps of the back door it
looked like not more than 3 feet X 3 feet.

More of Jane's uplifting experience:

The second story is unfortunately very vague. It was a wind but
a very strong and gentle wind and cloudy which surrounded me. I
do however get the feeling that someone all in white (cloudy)
but with a smiling face was to my left, holding me. I can't
understand what the purpose would've been. Just to show me the
inside of the kitchen and bedroom. Or maybe it was for me to
understand that not everything can be explained. There was no
fear, in fact it was enjoyable. I wish I could experience this
again. As far as time missing, I was very young as time to a
child is different. But I remember after coming down, running
inside the back door to tell m=E9m=E9re as I thought she might be
worried where I've been. Obviously, I must've told her, but she
probably just thought it's a child's "make believe story".
Something to go along with my teepee!

I also remember seeing a women in the same field but at a short
distance from my grandparents home when my grandmother and I
were taking a walk. M=E9m=E9re never saw her, but I'd see her. Once
I insisted to go have a look as there were trees and bushes, but
she disappeared. I think a house had been torn down and I
remember seeing cement pieces on the ground. She was wearing a
long black dress and long black hair and looked to be a poor
person. She was also very thin but she smiled at me.

I don't remember my grandmother mentioning any experiences but
my father and I would spend hours talking about the possibility.
Dad was a Bank Manager and a very hard worker, and he believed
in UFO's. Both of us were glued to the TV whenever something
came up. Of course my mom thought we were both crazy! But that's
ok. You might've picked up that I was a true daddy's girl!

It's true it's the fear of "what they can do". I guess it must
be because we're talking about it in the last few days, but last
night Sam and I went swimming and I felt really "jumpy", it was
so bad that I asked him to come in the lady's changing room with
me while I took a shower. At least we were the only one's there
unless there was an Alien in the Sauna! Jumpy or not, I need to
know as much as possible and I think you're just the man who can
help me. Maybe, these conversations will "snap" something in my
"memory bank"! Like I said that "intense fear" comes out with
that movie, Signs. It's when his reflection is in the TV. And
with the close-up of his face. Wow! You did trigger a memory
about the bruising. I've noticed a few times that I've had
fingerprint bruising underneath my arms right under the
armpits. The finger tips were pointing towards my chest. I
remember thinking nobody grabbed me and how could I have done
that. This of course has taken place about 1 1/2 years ago. If I
remember correctly it happened twice and a short time between
the two occurrences. I used to have long hair and once I decided
to put my hair up after the shower in front of the mirror and
that's when I noticed. It almost looked like a child's finger
imprints. The fingers were narrower. I think there were 4 finger
marks on each side.

Brian, you were asking about if my nightgown was ripped in any
way concerning the razor-like scratches. Actually the sheets
were NOT new. Maybe Typo on my part. Sorry. I have to confess
that I don't sleep with any clothes. I feel that it restricts my
movement and I feel "trapped". Maybe the Aliens were happy as
they didn't have to battle with the "nightgown". I may as well
laugh a little, even though I know that all of this is really
scary and spooky! Last week I noticed some blood (about 1/2 "
wide) on the pillowcase. I don't understand where it comes from
as I never have a nosebleed. Also, I remember about 10 years
ago, I woke up and there was a big blood stain on the pillowcase
again (about 3" wide). It was close to my mouth and there was
dry blood on my face.

Q - Have seen balls of light or flashes of light in your home or
other locations ?

A - Once I woke up with a huge white flash in front of my eyes -
 however the ATF Bldg in Oklahoma was demolished that day. On
another occasion I was sitting at the table looking at the
window when suddenly there was a 2 foot blue ball at the window
immobilized and then it dropped and disappeared. Ironically, my
belated friend Larry's nephew said he saw the same thing at
about the same time the other side of Ottawa)

Q - Have a "marker memory" that will not go away (i.e.: alien
face, examination, needle, table, strange baby, etc.)

A - A real fear of basements with black or dark doors on either
side. I get an extremely strong feeling that torturous medical
examinations or operations are taking place. I feel I could
almost "relive it". Ironically, on the weekend we went to the
basement in the adjoining building to look for big boxes and
those black doors are on either side with the white walls. I
almost panicked but controlled myself as Sam doesn't seem to be
a believer in all of this, to him I would be "acting nuts". But,
I swear to you Brian this is truly real and again the hair on my
arms are raised.

Q - Have had dreams of UFOs, beams of light, or alien beings.

A - Just last week I dreamed about the greys. It was dark
outside and there was 2 of them at an entrance way (square grey
building with no windows and no grass, all was grey, even the
air). They were gazing or "spying" at me. However, I got the
impression they were scared of me. I just thought because we've
been talking about it, it came out in the subconscious.

Q - Have had a UFO sighting or sightings in your life.

A - As I had mentioned to you concerning that "triangular
object". Yesterday, I looked at the crop circles and one was
triangular shape inside a circle. It makes you wonder.

Q - Have a cosmic awareness, an interest in ecology,
environment, vegetarianism, or are very socially conscious.

A - I've practiced vegetarianism throughout the years. However,
I'm no longer, and I'm constantly gazing up at the stars.

Q - Have a strong sense of having a mission or important task to
perform, without knowing where this compulsion came from.

A - This I've felt for many years. That there's something
"special" about me. However, I have no idea what it's all about.

Q - Have had unexplainable events occur in your life, and felt
strangely anxious afterwards.

A - As I explained to you concerning the green light and my
friend Anna from Niger.

Q - For women only: Have had false pregnancy or missing fetus.
(pregnant, and then not)

A - Something enexplainable happened to me about 9 years ago. I
bled for 3 months, non stop. Anyway, after the blood literally
gushed out of me and unto a $900.00 chair (which ended in the
trash), my Supervisor sent me to the doctor. You never see a
doctor panick as they're always calm. Well, he asked me, "I
don't know what to do, call an ambulance or you take a taxi to
the hospital. He couldn't understand why I waited this long. I
told him "loyalty to my work". Anyway, they put a probe and did
an ultra-sound. The doctor told me there's some sort of
"growth". He didn't know what exactly. Then I went back 1 week
later or so and again he did the examination. He said, "Now,
there's nothing there!" He looked flabberghasted! He said "I
need another doctor as a witness". They both said that there was
no explanation to give me. Of course I was relieved, thinking I
might have cancer or something worse!

Q - Have strong reaction to cover of Communion or pictures of
aliens. Either an aversion to or being drawn to.

A - Very strong reaction to Alien pictures and as I mentioned
that Alien face in the movie "Signs". Also, his movement scares
me alot as it's very animal-like.

Q - Have inexplicably strong fears or phobias. (i.e. heights,
snakes, spiders, large insects, certain sounds, bright lights,
your personal security or being alone).

A - A siren sound, really drives me up the wall. Or high pitch
sound. I've learned to control myself, but once my mother was
with me and I covered my ears and dashed myself against the
wall. My mother was really surprised.

Q - Have experienced self-esteem problem much of your life.

A - A definate yes.

Q - Have awoken with marks, burns or bruises which appeared
during the night with no explanation on how you could have
possibly received them.

A - A definate yes to bruises

Q - Have had, at any time, blood or an unusual stain on sheet or
pillow, with no explanation of how it got there.

A - Yes. As I had explained to you. (explained above)

Q - Have an interest in the subject of UFO sightings or aliens,
perhaps compelled to read about it a lot, or an extreme aversion
towards the subject.

A - I now feel compelled to read about it as I feel there's now
"more behind the scenes" since we've chatted.

Q - Have been suddenly compelled to drive or walk to an out of
the way or unknown area.

A - Yes, but I'm afraid to be alone.

Q - Have the feeling of being watched much of the time,
especially at night.

A - A definate yes. About a year ago I felt this very strongly
prior to Sam moving in with me. Actually, this is one of the
reasons I've asked him to move in. At one point I thought the
clock was staring at me! That's when I said to myself, "this is
totally nuts. I need to get a grip of myself". I just said it's
PTSD - Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, which the doctor said
I've suffered but I've managed to control it myself.

Q - Have had dreams of passing through a closed window or solid
wall.

A - Through a wall.

Q - Have seen a strange fog or haze that should not be there.

A - This is really interesting! Two years ago, I was sitting on
the balcony before sunrise, and it was still a bit dark outside.
Suddenly I looked up and there seemed to be a cloud formation
getting wider and bigger descending quite rapidly. It actually
stopped in front of the balcony and came towards me as if to
engulph me. I felt the moisture and coldness and at first I
thought it was neat like I was in the clouds, but then suddenly,
a fear came over me and I ran in the apartment. The fog
literally covered the whole balcony and it was thick, as I
couldn't see the tree outside. This to me was weird. But then
again, I said, maybe it's normal for fog to descend. I can
honestly say, the fear was because I felt some sort of
Intelligence behind it. Like it was being controlled.

Q - Have awoken with soreness in your genitals which can not be
explained.

A - Yes, repeatedly. Medically, all is fine.

Q - Have had back or neck problems, T-3 vertebrae out often, or
awoken with an unusual stiffness in any part of the body.

A - This has been getting worse in the last few years and about
4 months ago I woke up and couldn't go to work and started
crying as I thought maybe this is serious. I went to the doctor
and they took some tests. Nothing came up and the doctor just
called it "emotional pain" - whatever that means. Anyway, I
constantly have pain throughout my body, but I just don't want
to go on and on about it as some people have it worse. Also, the
neck and shoulder pain is really bad. The only pain related to
my husband's abuse is in the lower back.

Q - Have had electronics around you go haywire or oddly
malfunction with no explanation (such as street lights going out
as you walk under them, TV's and radios affected as you move
close, etc.).

A - Definitely yes. Street lights seem to go off oddly when I go
by even though I'm walking on the other side of the street. I've
noticed this because it's happened so many times. People at work
have accused me of being "The Bug" as you wouldn't believe the
problems which have occurred throughout the years. This was
especially bad from 10 years ago to about 2 years ago. Some of
the guys said, they don't know how to fix the problem as they've
never encountered this before. This has been mentioned to me
many times. It was almost funny. Sometimes they would have to
come to my office every hour or so. My TV has turned on and off
by itself. However, I've noticed that things seem to go haywire
if I'm emotionally upset or angry. The worse was about 4 years
ago at (work place). I just found out on the phone that the guy
at (work place) who was like my dad would retire and not be in
touch with me, (this has since happened). Anyway, at that exact
moment, all the lights in the whole building, computers
etc...went out. They notified us that it was only our building
that was affected, nobody else on the same street or at the
Restaurants next door. But I knew who was responsible. So I
tried to calm myself down as inside of me felt like a volcano
was going to erupt and in an office setting it's not very
professional! I drank some water and after 30 minutes all was
ok. They couldn't find the source of the problem. Needless to
say, I wasn't going to say a word! Can you see their reactions!
I would've been immediately dismissed!

Q - Have insomnia or sleep disorders which are puzzling to you.

A - A definite yes throughout the years.

Q - Have had paranormal or psychic experiences, including
intuition.

A - I've always had this gift; "reading people like a book" and
"intuition".

Q - Have been prone to compulsive or addictive behavior.

A - Doctor told me that I have "Obsessive Compulsive Disorder".
It comes out more if I'm under alot of stress. But every night I
have to check the door and balcony door at least 6 times before
I can reassure myself to go to bed. I also have an ADT Alarm in
my apartment and that helped somewhat, but then everytime I do
check the doors I keep thinking it's not going to keep the
Aliens from coming in! Of course I've tried to hide this from
Sam. He's never said anything. The doctor also told me that
apparently only Intelligent people suffer from OCD. Well, there
you go!

Q - Have been afraid of your closet, now or as a child.

A - I'm always afraid something will be there, looking at me!

Q - Have to sleep against the wall or must sleep with your bed
against a wall.

A - I'm anxious if my back is not towards the wall or towards
Sam. I feel "vulnerable".

Q - Have a difficult time trusting other people. especially
authority figures.

A - That's for sure!!!!

Q - Have had dreams of destruction or catastrophe.

A - Yes. Just last night I was in Israel gazing at the dead sea
and it looked "polluted". I asked an Israeli in my dream, "Isn't
that the Dead Sea or Salt Sea?" He replied yes. I don't bother
with the news since 911 so I wouldn't be surprised if something
did happen in Israel or the Middle East very soon.

Q - Have tried to resolve these types of problems with little or
no success.

A - Yes, and unsuccessfully.

Q - Have many of these traits but can't remember anything about
an abduction or alien encounter.

A - Yes!


Brian Vike
Director HBCC UFO Research
Home - Phone 250 845 2189
email: hbccufo.nul
Website: http://www.hbccufo.com








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   Mar > Mar 25

               Re: Sasquatch Speaks: The Truth Is Out There -

From: Neil Olsen <sovot.nul>
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 22:47:29 -0800
Fwd Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 08:06:09 -0500
Subject: Re: Sasquatch Speaks: The Truth Is Out There -


>From: Loren Coleman <lcoleman.nul>
>To: Loren Coleman <lcoleman.nul>
>Date: Sun, 07 Mar 2004 01:02:15 -0500
>Subject: Sasquatch Speaks: The Truth Is Out There

>The Washington Post
>Washington, D.C.

>The Reliable Source

>By Richard Leiby
>Sunday, March 7, 2004; Page D03

>Sasquatch Speaks: The Truth Is Out There

>Now it can be told: Bigfoot isn't real!

>So says Bob Heironimus, a retired Pepsi bottler from Yakima,
>Wash., who reveals to the Reliable Source that he donned a
>gorilla costume and appeared in the famous grainy film clip
>that helped fuel the Bigfoot craze in 1967 and is studied by
>Bigfoot, Sasquatch and Yeti investigators to this day.

<snip>


Hi all:

I saw the Bigfoot/Yeti documentary on the Discovery channel
tonite. Bob Heironimus seems embittered because he was left out
or at least not paid very much from the $$ made with the
original 1967 Patterson footage. Now that Patterson is dead, Bob
Heironimus may be trying to finally make "his share" of the
money now by taking a debunking position with his "truth" book,
etc. Mr. Heironimus is about two feet too short and even if he
was in a gorilla suit and on mini-stilts, he wouldn't be able to
fake the gait, the turning of the head and why would anyone
making a gorilla suit bother with ponderous breasts?

Most of the evidence including a report by Linda Moulton Howe in
her book "Glimpses of Other Realities II" seems to verify the
existence of Bigfoot. If it does exist, it is definitely not an
oversized gorilla but most likely an intelligent ET creature,
not the "missing link" or some rare species. A species of this
world that is this rare and scattered could not propagate itself
for very long. Bigfoot is probably just another Nephilim
experiment in creating the giants of Genesis chapter 6.

But, as usual, the spirit of accusation prevails and the
controversy goes on and on and on.

Perhaps Earth is some kind of a prison colony for miscreant ETs.
Nothing could be a stiffer jail sentence than being marooned on
a foreign world of 6,000,000 inhabitants, many with high powered
rifles, who would like nothing better than to stuff your hide
with a wire frame and paper mache and then charge a $5 admission
to an exhibition room.


Neil








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   Mar > Mar 25

                      European Parliament UFO Question

From: Nick Pope <nick.nul>
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 06:57:46 -0000
Fwd Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 08:08:15 -0500
Subject: European Parliament UFO Question


List,

A question about UFOs has been asked at the European Parliament.
The question was asked by Sebastiano Musumeci, an Italian MEP.
He uses the phrase "unexplained atmospheric phenomena". His
question suggested that as the issue is not confined to any one
Member State, the European Commission might usefully take a role
in co-coordinating or promoting research, possibly assigning the
task to a body such as the European Space Agency. Here's a link
to his question:

http://www2.europarl.eu.int/omk/sipade2?PUBREF=-//EP//TEXT+WQ+P-2004-0198+0+DOC+
XML+V0//EN&L=EN&LEVEL=3&NAV=S&LSTDOC=Y

Here's a link to the answer given on behalf of the Commission. I
suspect that it will be seen as not addressing the specific
point raised:

http://www2.europarl.eu.int/omk/sipade2?L=EN&OBJID=71651&LEVEL=4&SAME_LEVEL=1&NA
V=S&LSTDOC=Y

These long links can be problematic, so if they don't work, go to the
European Parliament website:

http://www.europarl.eu.int/home/default_en.htm

Select "Parliamentary Questions", then select the simplified
search mode under "Written Questions" and enter the term
"unexplained atmospheric phenomena" in the search field.

This isn't the first time the issue has been raised at the
European Parliament. List members may recall the interest shown
by Elio Di Rupo and Tullio Regge in the aftermath of the wave of
UFO sightings in Belgium in 1989-90. This initiative fizzled out
in 1994. Timothy Good has written about this in "Beyond Top
Secret" (pages 134 - 135).

The European Commission set out its position on the issue again
in 1998, in response to a Parliamentary Question tabled by Eryl
McNally. The response stated simply: "The Commission takes the
view that it has no jurisdiction in this matter":

http://europa.eu.int/eur-lex/pri/en/oj/dat/1998/c_310/c_31019981009en01520152.pd
f

The current issue of the weekly newspaper "European Voice"
contains an article on UFOs, prompted by Sebastiano Musumeci's
question. The full page article goes on to talk about the wave
of UFO sightings over Belgium in 1989 and 1990, the subsequent
investigation, and the previous attempts to have the issue
considered properly by the European Commission. Despite
(correctly) predicting the sceptical response this latest
initiative has drawn, the article is a well-written and positive
account, which I suspect ufologists will welcome, after recent
more negative media coverage. The article is accompanied by a
box detailing seven of Europe's best-known UFO sightings.

The article is on a restricted part of the paper's website so I
can only supply a link to the main site for the time being:

http://www.european-voice.com/

List members in continental Europe may be able to locate a copy
on the newsstands and I'll try to post the article up in the
next few days.

"European Voice" is a newspaper dedicated to reporting the
business of the European Union and its institutions, so it's the
sort of publication where it's unusual but refreshing to see a
positive article about the UFO phenomenon.


Best wishes,

Nick Pope








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   Mar > Mar 25

                     Re: Filers Files #13 - 2004 - Hatch

From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 01:17:22 -0800
Fwd Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 08:13:31 -0500
Subject: Re: Filers Files #13 - 2004 - Hatch


>From: George A. Filer <Majorstar.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 15:04:16 EST
>Subject: Filers Files #13 - 2004

>Filers Files #13 - 2004 Skywatch Investigations
>George A. Filer, Director MUFON Eastern
>March 24, 2004,

>Webmaster: Chuck Warren

>If photos don't show up in email, try

>http://www.georgefiler.com/ "Weekly files" Views



Hello all:

Shouldn't this issue be numbered #14 for 2004?

I'm pretty sure I saw #13 a week ago, dated 18 March 2004.


Best

- Larry









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   Mar > Mar 25

                 Re: Tycoon Funds Hunt For Alien Life - Hall

From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 13:12:48 +0000
Fwd Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 08:27:44 -0500
Subject: Re: Tycoon Funds Hunt For Alien Life - Hall


>From: Peter B. Davenport - NUFORC <director.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 13:18:18 -0800
>Subject: Re: Tycoon Funds Hunt For Alien Life

>>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 06:52:36 -0800
>>Subject: Re: Tycoon Funds Hunt For Alien Life

>>>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 19:22:27 +0000
>>>Subject: Re: Tycoon Funds Hunt For Alien Life

<snip>

>Frank, Dick, et al,

>I have submitted three requests for funding... one directly to
>Paul Allen, and two to the Allen Foundation... and the only
>responses I have received have been polite rejection letters.

<snip>

>I anticipate applying again, either to the Allen Foundation, or
>to Allen directly, for funding for a specific project. I will
>share the results with the list.


Peter,

Good luck. Your very constructive and worthwhile reporting net
and web site certainly are deserving of his financial backing.

For whatever they may be worth in the process, I would be
willing to provide an endorsement or recommendation to include
in your application.


 - Dick








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   Mar > Mar 25

                Re: Jerry Black's Reply To Conners & Clark -

From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul>
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 09:00:38 -0600
Fwd Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 08:30:54 -0500
Subject: Re: Jerry Black's Reply To Conners & Clark -


>From: Jerry Black <gulfbreezeinfo.nul>
>To: UFO Updates <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 11:18:40 -0800 (PST)
>Subject: Jerry Black's Reply To Conners & Clark

>March 22, 2004

>Ms. Wendy Connors and Mr. Jerome Clark,

>I accept your idea to receive psychological evaluation. I will
>accept your offer to take the psychological evaluation under the
>same terms given to Mr. Bruce Maccabee for the polygraph test.

>Please find a local psychologist of your choosing, and pre-pay
>for each session in advance, and then have the office call me to
>set up the appointment.

>I will attend as many visits that he or she feels necessary, as
>long as you pay for each visit in advance.

>Copies of the results will be given to both you and I. You have
>my permission to place the results on the Internet.


Apples and oranges, Mr. Black... their suggestion for your
'evaluation' is metaphor and isn't serious, as you well know,
where your demands on Dr. Maccabee are conflicted, unsupported,
and seriously non-scientific. Pay for your worthless polygraph,
sir, I'd predict that M's presumed successful completion of same
wouldn't satisfy you. Your mind's made up, and facts won't be
allowed to get in your way. The person is easier to attack than
the data, after all.


alienview.nul

EXPLORE "AlienViewGroup" at its HostPros URL.
http://www.alienview.net


JOHN FORD RESTORATION FUND -- John will be released eventually.
He'll need a tax free cash stake to get on his feet. Let's put
one together for him; the bigger it is -- the more attention
he gets. It could have been you. E-mail for detail.
$450.00 pledged -- $200.00 collected!

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite.
What others see from afar, I leave far behind me."
- Giordano Bruno, scourged by the scabrously specious scurrilous.








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   Mar > Mar 25

                Re: Tycoon Funds Hunt For Alien Life - Warren

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 07:13:44 -0800
Fwd Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 09:40:25 -0500
Subject: Re: Tycoon Funds Hunt For Alien Life - Warren


>From: Peter B. Davenport - NUFORC <director.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 13:18:18 -0800
>Subject: Re: Tycoon Funds Hunt For Alien Life

>>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 06:52:36 -0800
>>Subject: Re: Tycoon Funds Hunt For Alien Life

>>>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 19:22:27 +0000
>>>Subject: Re: Tycoon Funds Hunt For Alien Life


>>>>Source: BBC OnLine

>>>>http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/3556873.stm

>>>>22 March, 2004

>>>>Tycoon Funds Hunt For Alien Life

>>>>Paul Allen, the co-founder of software titan Microsoft, is
>>>>ploughing a slice of his fortune into the search for life on
>>>>other planets.

>>>>Mr Allen is donating $13.5m to the California-based Seti
>>>>Institute.

>>>>The money will be used to create a radio telescope array
>>>>comprising more than 200 dishes which will measure signals from
>>>>space.

>>>Too bad he doesn't give a lousy $1 million to UFO research. He
>>>would get a far bigger return on his money.

>>Dick, Et AL,

>>Perhaps Allen would donate money to UFO research - his interests
>>are obvious - has anyone asked?

>>Frank

Peter, Dick, et al,

>Frank, Dick, et al,

>I have submitted three requests for funding... one directly to
>Paul Allen, and two to the Allen Foundation... and the only
>responses I have received have been polite rejection letters.

Do the rejection letters give a reason for denial? Are they
"cookie cutter" responses?

>Given Allen's rumored interest in the subject of ufology, I do
>not understand his failure to express public interest in the
>subject. It seems ironic that he is willing to support the SETI
>project, to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars, but
>apparently is not interested in supporting a similar search
>within a hundred miles of our planet! It is an interesting
>statement that Jimmy Hendricks and rock 'n roll music take
>precedence over the question of alien presence on our planet!!

Forgetting "rumors" for a moment, and "knowing" his interest in
SETI, one would think, given the opportunity to give  a
presentation, that he could be persuaded to comply with funding.
Perhaps he would be willing to fund UFO related projects in a
"not so public way?"

>Interestingly, the Allen Foundation states that an organization
>applying for funding MUST have 501 (C) 3 status as a federal
>non-profit. However, when one answers the preliminary questions
>on the Foundation website, indicating non-status in that
>capacity, the response one receives is that of a qualifying
>status!

>I anticipate applying again, either to the Allen Foundation, or
>to Allen directly, for funding for a specific project. I will
>share the results with the list.


Best of luck Peter, and my advice if possible, would be to
target Allen directly.


Regards,

Frank










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   Mar > Mar 26

                                Are We Alone?

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 07:21:14 -0800
Fwd Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 06:59:23 -0500
Subject: Are We Alone?


Source: Iowa City Press Citizen

http://www.press-citizen.com/news/032404seti.htm

March 24, 2004


Are we alone?

Speaker tells of technology hunt for extraterrestrials

By Kristen Schorsch
Iowa City Press-Citizen

Spaceships shaped like Frisbee discs. Skinny beings with large
heads, long fingers and oval-shaped eyes.

Nope. Not for Kevin Hansen.

While he doesn't know what extraterrestrial life looks like or
in what form it exists, he doesn't think it's a big-headed
monster or cruises the universe in a spaceship.

Maybe extraterrestrials are a machine. Maybe a form of energy,
he says.

Either way, Hansen, like many, thinks the possibility of life
elsewhere in the universe is exactly that - a possibility.

"It's pretty pointless if this planet has the only living life
forms on it," the Kirkwood Community College student said.

Jill Tarter, director of the Center for SETI (Search for
Extraterrestrial Intelligence) Research at the SETI Institute in
California, spoke to a crowd of about 200 people Tuesday in the
University of Iowa's Van Allen Hall. The topics: Finding
technology from intelligent life, and "Hollywood" ideas like
Hansen's.

Tarter's visit to UI was part of the school's Distinguished
Public Lecture Series, which brings nationally known scholars to
campus to discuss ideas in forefront sciences.

Talk of extraterrestrial life has become more mainstream lately
with two rovers, or robots, sent a few months ago to Mars in
search of life - maybe in the form of water - that might have
existed on the Red Planet. Research for the project involved UI
faculty members and students, who worked to develop software to
help people who control the robots.

SETI is building a new radio telescope that will assist in
finding technology from life elsewhere, Tarter said, similar to
how the twin rovers are searching for microbes, or living
organisms, on Mars. Before SETI's newest project, their
researchers shared telescopes such as the Arecibo dish in Puerto
Rico, sometimes giving them only weeks to work.

And while no one has offered concrete evidence so far of
intelligent life, Tarter said the radio telescope could help.

"What's been happening is that we're finding microbial life on
Earth is far more tenacious and able to live in a much wider
range of environments than we've ever conceived before," she
said.

Radio and optical telescopes look for signals, like a flash in
the sky, that could come from other civilizations. An almost
natural sound, such as pulsating tones, also could be signals,
she said.

Linda French, an associate professor of physics at Illinois
Wesleyan University, also has used radio telescopes in search
for intelligent life.

She was one of several graduate students at New York's Cornell
University in the late 1970s that worked with professors to
decode messages that might have been sent from intelligent life.
French now teaches a course for first-year students about
portrayals of alien encounters in science fiction and popular
culture.

"Most of my students think probably that it's more likely than
not that there's life out there," French said. "I think that is
probably true, but it is kind of perplexing that we haven't
found anybody."










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              Re: UFO Investigator & ISU Alumnus Dead - Warren

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 07:29:38 -0800
Fwd Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 07:01:26 -0500
Subject: Re: UFO Investigator & ISU Alumnus Dead - Warren


>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 10:18:28 -0800
>Subject: Re: UFO Investigator & ISU Alumnus Dead

>>From: Terry Groff <terry.nul>
>>To: UFO Updates" <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 02:15:03 -0600
>>Subject: UFO Investigator & ISU Alumnus Dead

>>Source: Iowa State Daily

>>http://www.iowastatedaily.com/vnews/display.v/ART/2004/03/24/4061058409b0b?in_
archive=1

>>March 24, 2004
>>UFO investigator, ISU alumnus dead

>>By Scott Rank
>>Daily Staff Writer

>>An ISU alumnus who worked on the country's largest, most
>>systematic investigation of UFOs died Thursday after a struggle
>>with cancer. He was 70.

>>Roy Craig, who received his doctorate in physical chemistry from
>>Iowa State in 1952, was chief field investigator for The
>>Colorado Project, the official government search for verifiable
>>evidence for the existence of UFOs. He was highly skeptical of
>>UFOs, but was fascinated by the false reports of their
>>existence.

><snip>

>Fellow Listers,

>Here is a copy of the letter I sent to the author of the afore
>mentioned article:

>Dear Mr. Rank,

>Thank you for your article about the life of Dr. Roy Craig and
>his unfortunate passing.

>In regards to the comments made by "Hal Mansfield," I'd like to
>point out a few errors about UFOs that he made: For one, the
>"existence" of UFOs or "Unidentified Flying Objects" has not
>been in question "officially" for over six decades. The term was
>created by the Air Force in the early 1950's. To use the noun
>"believers" in association with UFOs is not rational. It would
>be the same as saying, "believers in the Empire State Building,"
>neither makes any sense.

>Furthermore, one might argue that Dr. Craig "gained notoriety"
>by the "subject matter" of the "Condon Report" opposed to his
>position on it.

>Finally, the so-called  "Condon Report," is filled with errors,
>and in some instances is quite ludicrous. Moreover, there is
>ample evidence that Edward Condon had a predisposed ideology in
>regards to the UFO phenomenon, and was more interested in
>maintaining the "status quo" then providing "unbiased scientific
>methodology" to the study of said phenomenon.


Feedback To Article:

http://www.iowastatedaily.com/vnews/display.v/ART/2004/03/24/4061058409b0b

Posted 03/24/2004

A simple review of the USAF sponsored Condon report (not Condor)
reveals that the entire study was simply a rubberstamp for the
public conclusions of the USAF Project Blue Book. If one looks
but a little deeper into the Condon report one finds a
terrifically biased perspective that did not seek to find the
truth regarding UFO and, further, ignored or obfuscated cases
that might refute the predetermined conclusions offered by the
report.

The easiest proof of the failing of both the USAF Blue Book
project and the USAF sponsored Condon report is that since those
efforts were concluded, thousands of documented reports
including military reports and aviation radar/visual reports
have been made world-wide.

While science has validated the existence of a variety of
natural phenomena that may well have invoked UFO reports, none
of those phenomena were discovered in the course of the so-
called investigations by the USAF. One would think that an
honest inquiry would have revealed those observations.

In fact very little analysis was ever conducted on Blue Book
cases, and even less statistical examinations were undertaken.
Those that were done implied findings other than those
sanctioned by the USAF.

For the benefit of your readers who have seen unidentified
aerial phenomena, there has been no thorough examination of this
matter by the scientific community due to a bias against
examining these issues. There are many cases involving radar and
other physical evidence that can't be explained away as spurious
radar returns and that should be quite interesting to a true
scientist.

Who knows if they are Aliens? Until the matter is engaged by
science in an unbiased manner we will not know.

The French Space Agency has studied UFO for over forty years and
the opinions of its director are reflected in an independant
report to the French Institute for Higher Defense Studies - the
so-called COMETA Report. It is their opinion that the phenomena
may be of great interest to the SETI community and that more
intensive efforts are needed to resolve that question.

This is not to cast dispersions upon Mr. Craig, he participated
in the project under the direction of Mr. Condon. If his
commentary opened any minds at all, that is a fine legacy.


Ted
Exec. Director
California








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                Mars Mission Finds Evidence Of Hospitable Sea

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 07:32:29 -0800
Fwd Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 07:03:51 -0500
Subject: Mars Mission Finds Evidence Of Hospitable Sea


Source: Radio Free Europe

http://www.rferl.org/featuresarticle/2004/3/35A11B66-7F1C-497A-BCEC-1B506ED2DDAD
.html

24 March 2004


World: Mars Mission Finds Evidence Of A Salty Sea Hospitable To Life
By Andrew Tully

U.S. space scientists have moved one step closer to determining
whether Mars once harbored life. Earlier this month, one of two
robotic vehicles roaming the planet found evidence that water
had once eroded stone. Now they've announced that the evidence
points to something even more important.


Washington, 24 March 2004 (RFE/RL) - American scientists say
they have found the strongest evidence yet that Mars was once
hospitable to life.

Speaking with reporters yesterday in Washington, officials from
the U.S. space agency NASA were careful to say they had not
found evidence of life itself. But, they say, "Opportunity" -
 one of two robotic vehicles that landed on the planet in
January - has found evidence of a shallow, salty sea.

The conclusion was based on the same evidence that led to the
announcement on 2 March that water had, indeed, once flowed on
Mars. At that time, however, scientists were able to conclude
only that it was present in the Meridiani Planum, the area being
explored by one of the vehicles.

"We don't know that life was there, but we have an environment
that would have been suitable for life." Ed Weiler, NASA's
associate administrator for space science, said early analysis
of the evidence indicates that some Martian rocks had undergone
erosion that could only have been caused by water. He said
further study determined something even more important.

"It appears that the rocks at Meridiani were not just altered or
modified by water, they were actually formed in water, perhaps a
shallow, salty sea," he said. "This is a profound discovery. It
has profound implications for astrobiology [the study of
extraterrestrial life]. And I'd like to say, if you have an
interest in searching for fossils on Mars, this is the first
place you want to go."

Steve Squyres, the main scientist for the Mars mission, said the
fact that the rock was formed in water, rather than merely
eroded by water, indicates the onetime presence of enough water
to constitute a sea.

"We have found what I believe to be strong evidence that the
rocks themselves are sediments that were laid down in liquid
water. It's a fundamental distinction. It's like the difference
between water you can draw from a well and water you can swim
in."

In other words, Squyres says, a mere trickle of water would not
be enough to sustain life like that known on Earth. But he said
the Martian sea in the Meridiani Planum was plentiful and salty.

"These are the kinds of environments that are very suitable for
life. Now, we don't know that life was there, but we have an
environment that would have been suitable for life. The second
reason it's important is the potential for preservation of
evidence."

Squyres said the minerals in the water may have trapped whatever
was submerged in it, perhaps leaving fossils for eventual
discovery.

There is still a lot that scientists do not know about Mars and
its water, Squyres says - for example, the size of the newly
discovered sea, and how common such seas may have been on the
planet.

They also do not know the size of the former body of water found
by the Mars rover, whether it was once a permanent sea, or
whether it flooded from time to time like a desert basin. There
is also no evidence yet as to when this water existed, or how
long the area was wet.

But Squyres said that uncovering the evidence of the salty sea
on Meridiani Planum proves that NASA has the means to find
answers to at least some of these questions.

The U.S. space agency plans to mount unmanned missions to the
planet every 26 months. One such mission, scheduled for 2013,
would return to Earth with rock samples for more thorough
analysis.

U.S. President George W. Bush also has proposed sending humans
to Mars, although he has not given a detailed schedule for that
effort.










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             Re: Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices? - McCoy

From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy.nul>
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 07:13:46 -0800
Fwd Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 07:07:32 -0500
Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices? - McCoy


>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 00:10:52 -0500
>Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices?

>>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 11:09:50 -0400
>>Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices?

>>>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 23:37:49 -0500
>>>Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices?

<snip>

Hello, all Bruce, Don.

What really bugs me about the Flare theory is: March 13, 1997
was basically at the beginning of fire season in the Southwest.
I was being called up early - then ended up having health
problems,and ttopped flying for good later on.

However, the dropping of flares at altitude over a very dry
brushy, desert even at 15,000 or so feet, is asking to get a
shovel to the right temple by Smokey Bear.

Just the year before, I spent weeks working out of the Phoenix
area, on some very nasty fires, and it was early-April into
May. '97 was even drier, as I recall.

Also, as I recall, the flare "drop" was _outside_ the Goldwater
Range, not a good idea if you actually start a fire.

My problem: the Idea of a flare drop in general seems to be
illogical, unless it was to divert attention from what really
happened that night. Also, weren't the Prescott and Sedona
areas involved too? No bombing range there. There was a nuke
repository and ammo dump between Flagstaff and Prescott and a
couple of MOAS. This might be worth looking into.


GT McCoy









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                Re: Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices? -

From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22.nul>
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 07:45:32 -0800
Fwd Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 07:09:42 -0500
Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices? -


>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 00:10:52 -0500
>Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices?

<snip>

>According to National Air Guard spokespeople in the summer of
>1997, the flares were released at an unusually high altitude.
>Capt. Eileen Benz, spokesperson for the Arizona National Guard,
>and the person who discovered that flares had been dropped that
>evening by the Maryland National Guard (Snowbirds), flares were
>dropped at an altitude of 15,000 ft. Capt. Drew Sullins,
>spokesman for the MD Nat. Guard. said a squad of A-10 using the
>Bary Goldwater training range had "dumped several flares" at
>high altitude.

Bruce, you fail to mention that at that altitude and distance,
these so-called perfectly round amber "flares" would be 1,500
feet in diameter. There are too many discrepancis in the flare
hypothesis and you know that we went round and round on this.  I
have the FOIA docs.  The A-10s dropped LUU-2 flares over the
North Tac Range.  At least 63 of them. How come no one saw 63
lights?


Bill







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                          Secrecy News -- 03/25/04

From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood.nul>
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 11:48:10 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 07:13:06 -0500
Subject: Secrecy News -- 03/25/04


SECRECY NEWS
from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy
Volume 2004, Issue No. 29
March 25, 2004


**      DOD RELEASES STUDY ON ANTHRAX LESSONS LEARNED
**      THE PASSION OF THOMAS BUTLER
**      THE MYTH OF THE PRESIDENT'S DAILY BRIEF
**      A REJOINDER ON POLYGRAPH
**      A LEGAL REVIEW OF THE MOAB BOMB
**      INSCOM: ARMY INTEL AGENTS EXCEEDED THEIR AUTHORITY
**      A NEW ANTI-SECRECY COALITION


DOD RELEASES STUDY ON ANTHRAX LESSONS LEARNED

After nearly two years of refusing to grant public access to an
unclassified report on lessons learned from the anthrax letter
attacks of 2001, the Pentagon has finally released a redacted
version of the document.

"The anthrax attacks revealed weaknesses in almost every aspect
of U.S. biopreparedness and response," the report said.  "As
simple as these attacks were, their impact was far-reaching."

The report, authored by David Heyman of the Center for Strategic
and International Studies, is based on a daylong forum convened
by CSIS under contract to the Defense Threat Reduction Agency
(DTRA) in December 2001.

It provides a detailed and informative but hardly unsuspected
inventory of shortcomings in emergency preparedness and
response.

Ironically, the Defense Department's two-year denial of repeated
requests for release of the document exemplifies one of the
central problems identified in the report.

"The failure to communicate a clear message to the public was
one of the greatest problems observed during the anthrax
attacks... [including] failure to provide timely and accurate
information."

The Department's inability to efficiently process requests for
this document suggests that it still has a long way to go to
remedy this particular failure.

The redacted version of the report was finally released in
response to a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) appeal.

A copy of "Lessons from the Anthrax Attacks: Implications for
U.S. Bioterrorism Preparedness" is posted here (2 MB PDF file):

http://www.fas.org/irp/threat/cbw/dtra02.pdf

The Pentagon did not contend that the withheld portions of the
anthrax report are classified (exemption 1), even though they
are said to concern "vulnerabilities and capabilities of the US
Government to respond to another... attack."

Rather, in an expansive interpretation of the law, it said that
release of the redacted portions would make it possible to
"circumvent Department of Defense rules and practices...."
(exemption 2).

See the March 15 transmittal letter from H.J. McIntyre of the
DoD FOIA Policy Office here:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/2004/03/dod031504.pdf


THE PASSION OF THOMAS BUTLER

Dr. Thomas C. Butler is as great a benefactor to humanity as
anyone is ever likely to meet.

He dedicated his career to the study of infectious disease and
is an internationally renowned expert on plague.  His early
medical research is credited with saving the lives of *millions*
of children around the world each year by advancing oral
hydration as a treatment for diarrhea.

But over the past several months, Dr. Butler has been
humiliated, fined, and compelled to surrender his medical
license, as the result of various procedural violations
committed in the course of his research, such as improperly
shipping bacteria samples abroad via Federal Express.

On March 10, he was sentenced to two years in prison.

He could well have been condemned to an even longer sentence,
observed the Honorable Judge Sam R. Cummings of the Northern
District of Texas.

But the court decided to be merciful, in light of the fact that
"the defendant's research and discoveries have led to the
salvage of millions of lives throughout the world."

"There is not a case on record that could better exemplify a
great service to society as a whole that is substantially
extraordinary," Judge Cummings said.

Alternatively, one could say that there is not a case on record
that could better exemplify the shortsighted application of the
law in a manner that is madly inappropriate to the circumstances
of the case.

After the first million lives that he saves, a defendant is
entitled to some leeway when it comes to the commission of non-
malicious crimes, one might have supposed.  It is hard to
witness the professional destruction of Dr. Butler and to call
it justice.

See the transcript of the March 10 sentencing hearing here:

http://www.fas.org/butler/sentence.html

See also "Butler gets 2 years in prison" by John Dudley Miller,
The Scientist, March 11 (free registration required):

http://www.biomedcentral.com/news/20040311/02


THE MYTH OF THE PRESIDENT'S DAILY BRIEF

The President's Daily Brief (PDB), the daily intelligence
briefing prepared by the Central Intelligence Agency, is one of
those categories of classified information that are sometimes
termed classification "icons" because their near-absolute
secrecy status exceeds any national security justification that
can be rationally offered.  (The intelligence budget total is
another such "icon.")

The myth of the PDB as a sacrosanct document that may never be
disclosed was exploded by Tom Blanton of the National Security
Archive in an online essay and document collection this week
that includes excerpts of several PDBs that have in fact entered
the public domain, with or without authorization.

See "The President's Daily Brief" by Tom Blanton, March 22:

http://www.nsarchive.org/NSAEBB/NSAEBB116/index.htm

See also "Who's Afraid of the PDB?  Why Bush should show the
9/11 commission his briefs" by Tom Blanton in Slate.com, March
22:

http://slate.msn.com/id/2097476/

An August 6, 2001 edition of the PDB has become a particular
focus of controversy because it reportedly described the threat
to the U.S. from Al Qaida.  The White House has refused to
release this key document, and has only permitted the 9-11
Commission to gain partial access to it under exceedingly
restricted circumstances.

But in remarks during a March 24 roundtable interview that
seemed to cast doubt on the legitimacy of such secrecy, National
Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice indicated that this particular
PDB was not that sensitive or interesting:

"This document was a kind of analytic step-back piece that says
we know that al Qaeda has been interested in striking the
American homeland, and then it's historical.  Most of it is
about, he admired the 1993 events at the World Trade Center --
 the bombing in '93. Some things about '97 and '98. There's
mention of hijacking for the purpose of getting the release of
prisoners. So it's not in the context of flying airplanes into
buildings. It mentions that al Qaeda has tried to infiltrate
people into the United States."

"But it's all kind of things that you've heard before...," she
said.  See:

 http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2004/03/20040324-
25.html


A REJOINDER ON POLYGRAPH

It is not correct to say that no spy has ever been caught as a
result of polygraph testing.

John F. Sullivan, who served as a CIA polygrapher for 31 years,
wrote to set the record straight, noting that the polygraph
played a role in the identification of spies such as Sharon
Scranage and James Nicholson.

See his "Rejoinder on Polygraph" here:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/eprint/sullivan.html

Mr. Sullivan is not an uncritical proponent of polygraph
testing.  Nor does he insist, against the findings of the
National Academy of Sciences and others, that the polygraph is
scientifically valid in the way that other diagnostic tools are.

"I have always believed that trying to sell polygraph as a
science was a mistake, and as I stated in my book, polygraph is
92% art and 8% science," he told Secrecy News.

"There are Rembrandts and finger painters among polygraph
examiners, and when done by a 'Rembrandt,' polygraph is very
effective," he wrote in an email. "When done by a finger
painter, polygraph is ineffective, often abusive, and can be
dangerous."

This is a striking analogy since it places the emphasis on the
intuitive gifts of the examiner rather than on the technique or
technology of the test.  One can study and teach painting, but
no training program can reliably produce "Rembrandts" at will.


A LEGAL REVIEW OF THE MOAB BOMB

According to Defense Department regulations, all weapons are to
be reviewed for compliance with international law prior to their
use in conflict.

An Air Force review of the Massive Ordnance Air Blast (MOAB), a
huge 21,000 pound air-dropped explosive that is also informally
known as the "Mother of All Bombs," was conducted last year.

In a three page analysis, the Air Force Judge Advocate General
concluded that "the MOAB weapon... is consistent with the
international legal obligations of the United States, including
the LOAC [law of armed conflict]."  See (thanks to RT):

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/dumb/moab.pdf

For more on MOAB, see:

 http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/moab.h
tm


INSCOM: ARMY INTEL AGENTS EXCEEDED THEIR AUTHORITY

Army intelligence officers who asked the University of Texas Law
School to provide them with a roster of attendees at a recent
conference, in order to identify a "suspicious" participant in
the conference, exceeded their authority, according to an
internal investigation conducted by the Army's Intelligence and
Security Command (INSCOM).

The investigation followed news reports about the incident,
including a March 9 Wall Street Journal story.

"INSCOM's review concluded that the special agents and their
detachment commander exceeded their authority by requesting
information about individuals who were not within the Army's
counterintelligence investigative jurisdiction," according to a
March 12 news release.  See:

http://www.fas.org/irp/news/2004/03/inscom031204.pdf


A NEW ANTI-SECRECY COALITION

In response to the continuing escalation in official secrecy, a
new coalition of organizations and individuals under the aegis
OpenTheGovernment.org is emerging to advance the interests of
openness and accountability.

"The public's right to know promotes equal and equitable access
to government, encourages integrity in official conduct, and
prevents undisclosed and undue influence from special
interests," according to the coalition's statement of values.
"OpenTheGovernment.org seeks to advance the public's right to
know and to reduce secrecy in government."

Among its first activities is an effort to identify the "ten
most wanted" documents that should be publicly accessible but
are not.

See the coalition web site here:

http://www.openthegovernment.org/


_______________________________________________
Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the
Federation of American Scientists.

To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to
secrecy_news-request.nul
with "subscribe" in the body of the message.

OR email your request to saftergood.nul

Secrecy News is archived at:
http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html

_______________________
Steven Aftergood
Project on Government Secrecy
Federation of American Scientists
web:    www.fas.org/sgp/index.html
email:  saftergood.nul
voice:  (202) 454-4691








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              Re: Aliens out there? Please Come To The Rescue -

From: Colin Stevenson<colsweb.nul>
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 16:52:07 -0000
Fwd Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 07:14:54 -0500
Subject: Re: Aliens out there? Please Come To The Rescue -


>From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 17:25:25 -0400
>Subject: Re: Aliens out there? Please Come To The Rescue

>>From: Aaron P. LeClair <force.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 05:50:53 -0500
>>Subject: Re: Aliens out there? Please Come To The Rescue

<snip>

>>I'm all for getting an alien's help, this idea just popped in my
>>mind, and I am now wondering if maybe that is why aliens don't
>>make more of an open contact. They might know not to give fire
>>to a baby maybe?

>For many years I have been saying that we are a primitive
>society whose major activity is tribal warfare. Most parents
>don't give their young children loaded guns to play with (except
>maybe in Texas).

>One reason among many for coming here could be because we are
>going through the transition from being able to make a mess only
>on our planet to being able to spread our form of friendship,
>(Hostility) to the neighborhood. Quarantine is the word. We are
>not equals.


All persons are equal but some are more equal than others.

Most persons are born equal, some achieve inequality and others
have inequality thrust upon them.

Most Extra Terrestrials are born superior, some achieve
superiority and others have superiority thrust upon them.

:-)

col








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   Mar > Mar 26

                     DIA Dances Around The FOIA Maypole

From: Larry W. Bryant <overtci.nul>
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 15:32:11 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 07:16:42 -0500
Subject: DIA Dances Around The FOIA Maypole


DIA Dances 'round the FOIA Maypole, by Larry W. Bryant

"A democracy begins to fail when its citizens start losing trust
in their governmental leaders." -- Larry W. Bryant (March 25,
2004)

You might argue that playing FOIAgames with officialdom becomes
an unproductive exercise from the very start -- for the FOIA
requester, that is. But sometimes, the exercise yields some
insight (not to mention entertainment) that you just can't get ,
these days, from, say, routine digestion of our corporately
filtered news media.

Case in point:

On Dec. 22, 2003, in an act of desperately seeking
accountability from the U. S. Defense Intelligence Agency (which
manages defense attache personnel assigned to various U. S.
embassies overseas), I FOIA'd that agency's FOIA manager with
the request that he send me a copy of the entire DIA case file
on my FOIA request of June 22, 2003 (and subsequent appeal), re
the whistleblower-exposed incident of some "hostile aerial
craft's" interference with some U. S. military satellites during
the summer of 1975 (as teletyped to, inter alia, the U. S.
embassy in Canberra, Australia.

Here's the text of the DIA response, dated March 16, 2004:

"U-2, 166/DAN-1A(FOIA)

"Dear Mr. Bryant:

"This responds to your request under the Freedom of Information
Act dated 22 December 2003. Therein you requested records
concerning your request for records concerning a 1975
unidentified flying object incident in Australia. A search of
DIA's systems of records located four documents responsive to
the subject of your request.

"Upon review, it has been determined that some portions of one
document are not releasable. The portions withheld are exempt
from release pursuant to 5 U.S.C. 552 (b)(1), (b)(2), and
(b)(3), Freedom of Information Act. Subsection (b)(1) applies to
information properly classified under the criteria provided by
Executive Order 12958, as amended. Subsection (b)(2) applies to
information which pertains solely to the internal rules and
practices of the agency. Subsection (b)(3) applies to
information specifically exempted by a statute establishing
particular criteria for withholding. The applicable statute is
10 U.S.C. Section 424. All reasonably segregable portions of the
document are attached hereto.

"The remaining three documents are enclosed for your use without
redaction.

"You are advised that a requester may appeal, within 60 days, an
initial decision to withhold a record or part thereof. Should
you wish to exercise this right, you may do so by referring to
case #0498-03 and addressing your appeal to: Defense
Intelligence Agency; ATTN: DAN-1A (FOIA); Washington, D.C.
20340-5100.

"Sincerely,

"ROBERT P. RICHARDSON, Chief, Freedom of Information Act Staff"

One of the sanitized documents consists of a blank form titled
Defense Intelligence Agency Staff Summary Sheet (Subject:
Freedom of Information Act Appeal of Larry Bryant, case number
0498-03). In the section labeled "BACKGROUND," the form has
three entries:

"1. PURPOSE: To respond to a Freedom of Information Act appeal
(enclosure).

"2. BACKGROUND: The individual requested information on 1975
telexes concerning interference by unidentified flying objects
(UFO) on military satellites (enclosure 2). Due to the searches
conducted for earlier UFO requests, the FOIA Office advised the
request[er] that there were no responsive records (enclosure 3).
On appeal, the records systems were searched without locating
responsive records (enclosure 4).

"3. DISCUSSION: A new search by the classified library indicates
that this Agency could locate no information pertaining to the
request (enclosure 4).

"4. RECOMMENDATION: That DA approve and sign the appeal response
letter."

The revelation expressed in item 2 explains why it took only a
few days for the DIA FOIA wizards to send me a form-letter
dismissal of my original request of June 22, 2003. Of course,
UFO-oriented FOIA warriors regularly encounter this obfuscatory
tactic, which goes like this: "When we receive a request for
UFO-related records, we simply go through the motions of (1)
referring the requester to the old USAF Project Blue Book files,
now maintained by the National Archives and Records
Administration (NARA); and/or (2) giving him some previously
released DIA documents so as to appease him -- and thus easily
wash our hands of the matter."

What's more, the agency's confining its records-search to a
"library" (rather than expanding it to all relevant DIA
operational and functional files) assured swift, certain death
for the request's processing. This (stonewalling) practice of
course sets up a sort of "Catch-22" for the requester: "If we
search the wrong files, and/or couch the data-base search under
date ranges exclusive of 1975, we can report to him: 'No
responsive hits,' and he'll have no chance of proving us wrong."
(Note: here are the date ranges cited in the search printouts:
01/01/87 to 12/31/94; 01/01/95 to 12/31/99; 01/01/00 to
08/25/03; and 01/01/00 to 09/08/03.)

Perhaps the most revelatory item in the case file consists of a
hand-written document-transmittal slip from DIA headquarters,
dated Nov. 17, 2003, addressed to "CS -- Bill"; it states:

"I spoke to Paul Richardson about this appeal because I wanted
to be sure he was covered. It is clear the individual must've
been a DIA employee because he knows too much about our
procedures.

"(1) There are no DAO [defense attache office] files to query.
(2) We do not have many permanent records for the DAO's. It is
something we hope to change with this next iteration of the
records management manual. There certainly wouldn't be copies at
NARA of any internal DAO correspondence (and we didn't have e-
mail in 1975) like minutes from an embassy meeting commenting on
what a security guard said on the existence of telexes. They are
probably not even considered to be temporary files.

"V/R [Very Respectfully],

"Konhea [DeLauth]"

As I await any further whistleblower input into this latest FOIA
merry-go-round, I leave you with a renewed question:

If we citizens no longer can trust such agencies as the DIA,
CIA, NSA, and FBI to faithfully discharge their obligation to
comply with both the spirit and the letter of open-access law,
have we already lost the battle to preserve, protect, and expand
our democratic ideals?








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   Mar > Mar 26

                     New South Wales UFO Hotline Reports

From: Diane Harrison <auforn.nul>
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 08:14:49 +1000
Fwd Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 07:19:05 -0500
Subject: New South Wales UFO Hotline Reports


UFO Reports New South Wales

Source: National UFO Hotline & AUFORN


UFO Report Homebush NSW

1800 Callin Code: 03187 19.12.2004 NSW

Date: 19.12.2004
Day:
Time Reported: 1:00 pm
Location: Homebush, NSW
Reportee: Simon
Report given to nearest rep: Karen B.

Report:

On the 18th December at the Olympic Park Units at Homebush at
around 10:30 pm, Simon was sitting with a friend on his friends
balcony. It was a clear night and two objects appeared, they
seemed to be heading north.  These orange light objects were
travelling at jet speed, performing zigzag manoeuvrers with each
other, darting in and out. They looked as if they were around 35
degree above the horizon. No noise was apparent and their orange
appearance remained constant. The whole event took 5 to 7
seconds according to the reportee and they were both of equal
size, that being the size of a quarter of a five cent piece from
the witnesses perspective. No light trail etc was apparent from
either object leading up to or during the manoeuvrers.

The orange lights eventually disappeared from view separately.

END REPORT

Karen B. AUFORN Director NSW

---

UFO Report Maraylya NSW

1800 Callin Code: 03352 13.03.2004 NSW

Date: 13.03.2004
Day:  Saturday
Time Reported: 1:08 pm
Location: Maraylya, NSW
Reportee: Mrs G
Report given to nearest rep: Karen B.

Report:

On the 12th March at Maraylya, NSW at around 9 pm, the reportee
had noticed a light in the distance, along with a few other
people at a social event. She did not think anything much about
it and thought it was probably someone in the distance using a
spotlight. She left the event at around 10:30 pm to return home.
As she was driving home to Maroota she noticed a large bright
light and in the centre a dark circle. The reportee states that
the object ended up at about 50 metres above her car and was at
least half the size of her own car i.e Hyundai Excel.

Apparently a elongated beam was coming out from the object
towards the ground, however the beam itself did not seem to be
eluminating her car. After around 15 minutes or so, the object
starting darting about, darting across backwards and forwards
and looked graceful when performing these manoeuvrers.

The reportee was driving slower than usual during this event,
since she was watching the object through the front window and
had strain to look high up to see it. Once she had arrived at
Maroota, the object continued its journey. The total drive home
took around 30 minutes.

The reportee later rang the RAAF who stated they had nothing in
the area, but told her they had received a number of calls about
the same phenomina. Calls came from Maraylya, Pitt Town and
Catai.

END REPORT

Karen B. AUFORN Director NSW

---

UFO Report Kookwell NSW

Follow up 1800 Hotline call 3353 NSW

Date:   13th March 04
Time:   6:15 pm
Place:  Krookwell, NSW
Caller:  Kevin
Investigator:  Karen B (NSW)
Report:

On Monday the 1st March at around 3pm the reportee was leaving
his homestead when he noticed an object moving down the gully in
the air. At the top of the gully there are communication towers
and at the bottom there is flat ground and a small dam on the
property. The reportee states it was a clear day and there was
virtually no wind. The object was only a couple of hundred
metres away from the reportee and it came to a dead stop for
about 10-15 seconds at the bottom of the gully, 30-40 metres off
the ground. The reportee states that the object had dark red
and orange lights that were pulsating.

After around 10-15 seconds it cruised off, moving off in
northerly direction over the top of the mountains and then
changed direction again travelling North-West.

Later on the reportee rang the Bureau of Meteriology since he
has found a crashed weather balloon before, but they had nothing
in the area during that time and the description did not fit.
The shape of the object was difficult to determine, he thought
at first it may have been an ultra-light, but soon discarded
that theory due to the orange and red pulsating light display.
 His property is 10 km away from Cowra.

END REPORT

Regards
Karen B. AUFORN Director NSW

Thank you Karen for these reports

--


Regards Diane Harrison
National Director of The Australian UFO Research Network
Australian Skywatch Director

~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>
THE AUSTRALIAN UFO RESEARCH NETWORK
(A Non-Profit Organization)

E-Mail: auforn.nul
E-mail: ufologist.nul
http://www.hypermax.net.au/~auforn

ADMINISTRATION:

PO Box 738
Beaudessert 4285
QLD Australia
Tel 07 55 44 6888
~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>
Australian UFO Research Network Hotline Number
         1800 77 22 88 Freecall
~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>~~~~<>

All NEW UFO Bookshop at
http://www.contactpublishing.com









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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   Mar > Mar 26

                Re: Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices? -

From: Bruce Hutchinson <bhutch.nul>
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 17:36:30 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 07:21:59 -0500
Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices? -


>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 00:10:52 -0500
>Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices?

>>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 11:09:50 -0400
>>Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices?

>>I'm going to keep asking these questions until one or both of
>>you answer them. Explain why these flares were released at such an
>>altitude as to be seen 60-80 miles away in Pheonix when the flares
>>are ineffective above 1,000 to 1,500 feet for ground llumination [the
>>reason they would be deployed in the first place].Releasing these
>>flares at altitudes above these altitudes is a waste of the flare's
>>use. The specs on the flares recommends they be preset for release at
>>a given altitude but the flare ignites at 500-1,500 feet. Their use
>>is for the benifit of ground troops. Their other use is as a decoy.
>>They can be ejected from the aircraft and then ignite, squirreling
>>away from the aircraft in unpredictable directions to draw off an Air
>>to Air or Ground to Air heat seeking missiles.

>According to National Air Guard spokespeople in the summer of
>1997, the flares were released at an unusually high altitude.
>Capt. Eileen Benz, spokesperson for the Arizona National Guard,
>and the person who discovered that flares had been dropped that
>evening by the Maryland National Guard (Snowbirds), flares were
>dropped at an altitude of 15,000 ft. Capt. Drew Sullins,
>spokesman for the MD Nat. Guard. said a squad of A-10 using the
>Bary Goldwater training range had "dumped several flares" at
>high altitude.

I presented the Phoenix scenario to a buddy who is ex-Air Force
and who spent several years as a crew chief in an National Guard
A-10 squadron. His comments:

 - While there are people whose job is to watch costs, generally
speaking, $500 would not be considered an item that is closely
rationed.

 - Re: 15,000 feet. Two possible explanations- One, during this
exercise, the "hard deck" was set quite high. During most
training flights, pilots have to perform their manoevers at a
minimum altitude above actual ground level- the so-called Hard
Deck (he called it something else-I forget- but I remembered
this term from some movie). Local geography, such as
mountains/hills can cause this lower limit to be set quite high.

The purpose is obvious... safety... and his take is that if the
flare drop was to simulate close troop support, then the Hard
Deck for this exercise might have been as high as 12,000 feet.

Two- From the synopsis I gave him, he said that one, possibly
two planes out of a small flight might have been instructed to
drop flares as a way to test that the batch they had was still
good. Most ordinance have ways of being tested, but these tests
are not foolproof, and live fire is the best way to find out if
your stock is still good. If the purpose of the flare drop was
just to test the systems, then the high altitude makes sense as
this would insure that the spent flares were cool before they
hit ground.

Based on the accounts I showed him, he leans toward a ground
support exercise run, with the Hard Deck set to maybe 12k.

If any of you are still in touch with military sources, you
might ask them what the typical minumum altitude for operational
exercises is for this area.


Regards,

Bruce Hutchinson








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   Mar > Mar 26

                Re: Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices? -

From: Barry Taylor <stingray.nul>
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 17:05:06 +1100
Fwd Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 07:24:37 -0500
Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices? -


>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
>To:  ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 11:09:50 -0400
>Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices?

>>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 23:37:49 -0500
>>Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices?

>>>From: Barry Taylor <stingray.nul>
>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 11:15:00 +1100
>>>Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices?

><snip>

>>>If close, then this means that the flares were dropped at a
>>>close distance behind the mountain and not 70-80 miles.

>>>Your thoughts.

>>What you have pointed out here contradicts my suggestion, made
>>in the latter half of the ADDENDUM to my Phoenix report (see web
>>site http://brumac.8k.com), that a single A-10 dropped flares 2
>>through 9 (as labelled in the report). However, there were
>>several airplanes in flying home from maneuvers (I don't know
>>how many). They could have been flying side by side, separated
>>by several miles, so, if they all dropped flares over a short
>>time interval as they headed eastward toward Davis-Monthan AFB
>>in Tucson, the flares could have taken any chance "formation",
>>including an arc shape.

<snip>

>I'm going to keep asking these questions until one or both of
>you answer them. Explain why these flares were released at such
>an altitude as to be seen 60-80 miles away in Pheonix when the
>flares are ineffective above 1,000 to 1,500 feet for ground
>illumination [the reason they would be deployed in the first
>place].

Valid questions you ask Don. I personally do not think the
flares were dropped 60-80 miles away. If they were seen from
that distance, then the Phoenix Lights event would be common
place and not such a surprise to the local residents as this,
and other similar events at the time. They must have been
closer. I am thinking that the influx of large UFO's around the
area caused the Mil. to take this action so as to keep the UFO
away from the eyes of the population of Phoenix. If this was the
purpose, than illumination of the ground was not a factor. Refer
to my original post dated, 19-3-04 with this link to my article:

http://www.theozfactor.cjb.net/hoax_05.htm

Have your read it? If no more close or similar flare activity
over the last 4 years, then you may sway your thoughts my way.
That could be proof. I say 4 years because that appears to be
the time when the bulk of UFO Disc activity drematically
diminished. But that is another story.

The flares did their job well. The news headlines were not
featuring the large UFO "V" craft. Imagine if they were.

>Releasing these flares at altitudes above these altitudes
>is a waste of the flare's use. The specs on the flares
>recommends they be preset for release at a given altitude but
>the flare ignites at 500-1,500 feet. Their use is for the
>benifit of ground troops. Their other use is as a decoy.
<<snip>>>

A decoy for the UFO?

Regards,

Barry Taylor







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   Mar > Mar 26

                Re: Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices? -

From: Barry Taylor <stingray.nul>
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 17:05:29 +1100
Fwd Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 07:29:47 -0500
Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices? -


>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 23:37:49 -0500
>Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices?

<snip>

Last 4 Flares (also possibly 5th) appear to be dropped from the
same aircraft according to the sequence, smooth arc of flares and
time delay between each ignition. The aircraft is doing a
starboard turn and gaining altitude slightly while flying toward
Phoenix. A crucial point in this analysis is the speed of the
aircraft dropping the flares. This way you should be able to
accurately measure the distance between flares therefore distance
behind mountain. Comparison to ground based distance with flare
separation distance is an important calculation that must be
considered. It does not seem to add up that they are 80 miles
away based on this method of calculation.

If the A-10 were flying at max. speed of 400mph (unlikely here)
then the average distance between flares = 0.84 mile. Making the
distance between the last 4 flares dropped = 3.354 miles. (max)
Please check this ground distance on your map. We can do a
horizontal triangulation to test overall distance by comparison
to your established figures. If it matches, well and good. But is
a calculation not made to this date.

<snip>

>K (and others) have claimed the lights were north of the
>Estrella range.

<snip>

I received the following email from a witness to the event, and
confirms your calculation of direction over the mountain:


"The "Lights over Phoenix" were dropped by military aircraft
after the original craft flew over my house 10 min. earlier...
I've seen it... the orange lights you see on the film are over
south mountain. My house is the most north you can get... XX
ave. Union Hills... before leaving the city. If you watch close
on the tape, the camera is facing S.S.W. the flares burn out
behind the profile of south mountain. The flares were a good
cover-up. Not good enough"


Information from various web pages:

 The A-10 Aircraft - "manoeuvrability at low speed and at low
altitude (below 1,000ft) up to 400 mph" (max)

This would make my previous calculations very close to the mark.
We need to test the ground distance below the last 4 flares.

"The LUU-2B Flare has a light output rating of 1.8 x 10(6)
candlepower and at 1,000 feet altitude illuminates a circle on
the ground of 500 meters at 5 lux. The LUU-2 is housed in a pod
or canister and is deployed by ejection. The mechanism has a
timer on it that deploys the parachute and ignites the flare
candle. The flare candle burns magnesium which burns at high
temperature emitting an intense bright white light. The
consumption of the aluminum cylinder that contains the flare
"candle" may add some orange to the light. Timer settings can be
set at 250, 500, and 1,000 to 11,000 feet." (max) Useless at
15,000ft?

This would explain the orange colouring of the Phoenix Lights.

"The LUU-2 has a burn time of approximately 5 minutes (240
sec/300 sec) while suspended from a parachute. Descent Rate:
 8.3 ft/sec (2.5 m/sec)"

Use the descent rate x length of burn to find altitude drop
compare to distance between flares as calculated above.

"The LUU-2B/B flare has an 18-foot diameter cruciform-shaped
canopy parachute suspension system for good stability".


Appreciate you efforts Bruce.


Regards,

Barry Taylor









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   Mar > Mar 26

                    Spectacular Fireball Likely A Meteor

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 17:14:52 -0800
Fwd Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 07:35:04 -0500
Subject: Spectacular Fireball Likely A Meteor


Source: Fort Frances Times - Ontario

http://www.fftimes.com/index.php/17/2004-03-23/13702

March 23, 2004


Spectacular fireball likely a meteor

By The Canadian Press

A spectacular fireball that blazed across Prairie skies and
parts of Ontario was probably a grapefruit-sized meteor,
astronomers said yesterday.

"I hope someone caught it on video," said Scott Young with the
Manitoba Museum. "It was brighter than normal, which means it
was about the size of a grapefruit."

It was not a satellite, part of a rocket, or other human-made
space debris, confirmed Capt. Dave Muralt of 17 Wing at CFB
Moose Jaw, Sask.

He checked yesterday with NORAD in Colorado, which tracks
orbiting material returning to earth. Officials there told him
it wasn't theirs.

Chris Rutkowski, an unidentified flying object expert in
Winnipeg, said "a good chunk of Canada saw this thing."

He said there were reports Sunday of sightings from Edmonton to
Ottawa and into North Dakota.

Because so many people saw the fireball, chances are it was very
high up, said Rutkowski, who was speaking on behalf of Ufology
Research of Manitoba.

"I get the idea it was a bright... large fragmented meteor
that's starting to break up and leaving a large tail."

Rutkowski doubted there was anything left to reach the ground,
but the possibility had astronomers excited.

It's rare, though, to find a meteor has reached the ground to
become what is then called a meteorite, said Martin Beech, an
astronomy professor at the University of Regina.

Most burn up in the atmosphere, briefly illuminated, and are
known to earthlings as shooting stars.

On Sunday, some people reported they felt a sonic boom while
others reported a strange smell and felt vibrations when they
saw the fireball.

That means the meteor was probably low in the Earth's
atmosphere, possibly as low as five km, said Richard Huziak,
president of the Saskatoon Centre of the Royal Astronomical
Society of Canada.

The smell=97similar to ozone=97resulted from the meteor ionizing the
oxygen in the lower atmosphere, he explained.

"If it's getting that far down, there's a good chance material
might have survived to land on the ground," Beech said.

Fireballs enter the atmosphere about 140 km from Earth and
usually burn out about 70 km away.

If anyone along the meteor's path finds an odd rock, there are
tell-tale characteristics to look for, such as a shiny jet-black
surface and magnetic properties, Beech said.

"The recovery conditions right now are perfect. The ground is
still fairly hard and there's snow about, so these black rocks
tend to stand out like a sore thumb."










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   Mar > Mar 26

                Cushing Library Acquires Roy Craig Collection

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 18:07:46 -0800
Fwd Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 07:39:47 -0500
Subject: Cushing Library Acquires Roy Craig Collection


Source: Texas A&M University - College Station, Texas

http://www.tamu.edu/univrel/aggiedaily/news/stories/03/092203-3.html

March 26, 2004

Cushing Library Acquires Roy Craig Collection on UFOs

The Scientific Study of Unidentified Flying Objects (UFOs) forms
the subject of a collection recently acquired by the Texas A&M
University Libraries.

The Roy Craig Collection, which is housed in the Cushing Library
and Archives, contains field notes, interviews, documents,
drafts, manuscripts and artifacts collected during the course of
an exhaustive study by the chief field investigator in the
1960s.

The project team under Dr. Roy Craig searched for sound evidence
to prove or disprove the idea of UFOs, but almost always found
only eyewitness accounts, with few cases supported by any
physical evidence.

Craig later wrote his own book about the project, UFOs: An
Insider�s View, providing his perspective on the study and the
report.

The collection is available for use in the Cushing Library and
is part of an extensive science fiction research collection,
filled with fictional depictions of aliens, space travel, and
UFOs.









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   Mar > Mar 26

                Re: Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices? -

From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22.nul>
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 06:50:41 -0800
Fwd Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 18:58:47 -0500
Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices? -


>From: Bruce Hutchinson <bhutch.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 17:36:30 -0500
>Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices?

>>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 00:10:52 -0500
>>Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices?

>>>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 11:09:50 -0400
>>>Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices?

>>>I'm going to keep asking these questions until one or both of
>>>you answer them. Explain why these flares were released at such an
>>>altitude as to be seen 60-80 miles away in Pheonix when the flares
>>>are ineffective above 1,000 to 1,500 feet for ground llumination [the
>>>reason they would be deployed in the first place].Releasing these
>>>flares at altitudes above these altitudes is a waste of the flare's
>>>use. The specs on the flares recommends they be preset for release at
>>>a given altitude but the flare ignites at 500-1,500 feet. Their use
>>>is for the benifit of ground troops. Their other use is as a decoy.
>>>They can be ejected from the aircraft and then ignite, squirreling
>>>away from the aircraft in unpredictable directions to draw off an Air
>>>to Air or Ground to Air heat seeking missiles.

>>According to National Air Guard spokespeople in the summer of
>>1997, the flares were released at an unusually high altitude.
>>Capt. Eileen Benz, spokesperson for the Arizona National Guard,
>>and the person who discovered that flares had been dropped that
>>evening by the Maryland National Guard (Snowbirds), flares were
>>dropped at an altitude of 15,000 ft. Capt. Drew Sullins,
>>spokesman for the MD Nat. Guard. said a squad of A-10 using the
>>Bary Goldwater training range had "dumped several flares" at
>>high altitude.

>I presented the Phoenix scenario to a buddy who is ex-Air Force
>and who spent several years as a crew chief in an National Guard
>A-10 squadron. His comments:

> - While there are people whose job is to watch costs, generally
>speaking, $500 would not be considered an item that is closely
>rationed.

> - Re: 15,000 feet. Two possible explanations- One, during this
>exercise, the "hard deck" was set quite high. During most
>training flights, pilots have to perform their manoevers at a
>minimum altitude above actual ground level- the so-called Hard
>Deck (he called it something else-I forget- but I remembered
>this term from some movie). Local geography, such as
>mountains/hills can cause this lower limit to be set quite high.

>The purpose is obvious... safety... and his take is that if the
>flare drop was to simulate close troop support, then the Hard
>Deck for this exercise might have been as high as 12,000 feet.

>Two- From the synopsis I gave him, he said that one, possibly
>two planes out of a small flight might have been instructed to
>drop flares as a way to test that the batch they had was still
>good. Most ordinance have ways of being tested, but these tests
>are not foolproof, and live fire is the best way to find out if
>your stock is still good. If the purpose of the flare drop was
>just to test the systems, then the high altitude makes sense as
>this would insure that the spent flares were cool before they
>hit ground.

>Based on the accounts I showed him, he leans toward a ground
>support exercise run, with the Hard Deck set to maybe 12k.

>If any of you are still in touch with military sources, you
>might ask them what the typical minumum altitude for operational
>exercises is for this area.

Analysis like this means little as he it based on spculation and
not what was actually observed, nor on what the Maryland ANG
stated in response to a FOIA.


-Bill H









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              Re: Aliens out there? Please Come To The Rescue -

From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 09:54:47 -0600
Fwd Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 06:43:00 -0500
Subject: Re: Aliens out there? Please Come To The Rescue -


>From: Colin Stevenson<colsweb.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 16:52:07 -0000
>Subject: Re: Aliens out there? Please Come To The Rescue

>>From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 17:25:25 -0400
>>Subject: Re: Aliens out there? Please Come To The Rescue

>>>From: Aaron P. LeClair <force.nul>
>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 05:50:53 -0500
>>>Subject: Re: Aliens out there? Please Come To The Rescue

><snip>

>>>I'm all for getting an alien's help, this idea just popped in my
>>>mind, and I am now wondering if maybe that is why aliens don't
>>>make more of an open contact. They might know not to give fire
>>>to a baby maybe?

>>For many years I have been saying that we are a primitive
>>society whose major activity is tribal warfare. Most parents
>>don't give their young children loaded guns to play with (except
>>maybe in Texas).

>>One reason among many for coming here could be because we are
>>going through the transition from being able to make a mess only
>>on our planet to being able to spread our form of friendship,
>>(Hostility) to the neighborhood. Quarantine is the word. We are
>>not equals.

>Most Extra Terrestrials are born superior, some achieve
>superiority and others have superiority thrust upon them.

I personally think that trying to attribute any sort of rational
human motivation to these bugs is a risky proposition. Not
knowing any other way, it's hard for us, I believe, to think
"alien" enough to get a clue as to what these things are up to.
Along with that, given our own surprisingly limited perceptual
abilities, it could be that they're waving their version of a
red flag at us and we're too stupid, or whatever, and just not
able to recognize it.

I've also tried to imagine what possible biological or social
advantage they might have with more direct contact, and I can't
think of any. Other than as a minor curiosity, we really might
not have that much to offer. Even our planet might not have
anything that extraordinary to investigate or exploit, if that's
what they wanted to do. Why invade Earth for its gold when there
are entire planets elsewhere completely made of the stuff? Or
they can just make it themselves out of lead?

So you see a few little scout ships once in a while, just to
check up on us. No need for anything else. Like walking past a
fish tank. If they all die, too bad, whatever. Plenty of others
in the galaxy.








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                 The Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices

From: Stuart Miller <stuart.miller4.nul>
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 16:55:19 -0000
Fwd Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 06:50:33 -0500
Subject: The Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices


The following is a short extract from an interview conducted
between myself and Dr. Lynne Kitei, author of the book The
Phoenix Lights, for UFO Review, a new on-line e-zine to be
launched soon. The full interview will appear in the first
edition, TBA.

Interview date: 24th. March 04.

Time: 11:00 pm GMT.

SM is Stuart Miller

LK is Doctor Lynne Kitei.


SM: What is your reaction these days, now, when you still hear
the word "flares" mentioned in connection with the lights?

LK:  Oh boy, that does get my ire. First of all, they weren't
flares! That I know. It's funny you should mention that because
last night, the three hour show (Coast To Coast 3/24/04) went so
well and we were getting such wonderful callers, from all over
the United States. It was just really amazing that all these
people were up in the middle of the night listening to this and
it was really comforting. I ve had so much positive
reinforcement. The last caller though, this guy says, I know you
were looking south so it must have been flares on the Barry
Goldwater range .

Well, besides the fact that if you just look at the data,
there's no way these were flares because they don't act like
flares. They defy physics, as we know it, as I've been told by
numerous optical specialists. Flares cannot stay in a straight
line, they cannot form formations, for sure, they're very
erratic, they're white not amber. They have giant slope trails
and they reflect. That's what they're used for; to reflect light
on air.

This didn't come up until a month after the USA Today article,
when I know the media was just badgering, as we were, for an
explanation and so they had to come up with something. The only
real hard data that they had were the four videos that night of
us looking south, so whoever thought it up was certainly very
bright and could make a case because the video itself does not
do it justice. It does not do it justice at all because they re
white in the video; they flicker in the video which they do not
do in real life. They appear smaller as well.

People that want to feed into that explanation, do. Either
they're fearful of the real explanation or they just can't deal
with thinking about it and it's just easier for them to slip
into a logical explanation. What's funny to me is that if you
look at the data, there's just no way. It's comical now when
somebody brings it up and some people are very hard set on it, I
have to tell you. Like this guy on the radio programme last
night. I also received an e-mail to that affect from a guy
that's with the Snowbirds somewhere. These are the people that
really don't look at the data. They hear an explanation; they
jump on it and say, That's fine.

Well what about the mile long triangular craft that everybody
saw. What about that phenomena? To me it's just as important if
not more so because thousands of people saw that as well, or
lights attached to something, which is very similar to what I
photographed, obviously.

A number of people saw these orbs detach from the main object
and go out into the environment, which maybe was what happened
in 95 to my husband and I, and then re-dock. That we didn't find
out about until over a year, in December, after the mass
sighting when I went back to the negatives and tried to find the
one with four lights, which I realised was actually from 95. It
shows quite clearly that when the closed orbs were disappearing,
and when there were three orbs there originally, one on top and
two underneath, there were six lights in the background. Two of
them disappeared as the top orb disappeared so that we saw four
in the background when two were there. Then when there's only
one orb, there's two in the background. So the same formation in
the same location, disappearing in the background when we re
seeing the closed orbs as well. It' s a little too coincidental.

I can get into this for a while but the bottom line is it s
happening world wide and other countries are much more open to
it as well. The flare theory is frustrating to me only in the
fact that some people feed into it. That's OK if that gives them
peace. Everybody in their own time. If that explanation is
justified in their own mind and they can live with that, OK.
That's up to them.









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                           Secrecy News - 03/26/04

From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood.nul>
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 11:53:38 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 06:54:12 -0500
Subject: Secrecy News - 03/26/04


SECRECY NEWS
from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy
Volume 2004, Issue No. 30
March 26, 2004


**      DSB ON FUTURE STRATEGIC STRIKE FORCES
**      SECRECY OF MISSILE DEFENSE TEST DATA QUESTIONED
**      RWANDA TEN YEARS AFTER
**      THE DALAI LAMA CALLS FOR FREEDOM OF INFORMATION
**      JOHN DEAN:  WORSE THAN WATERGATE


DSB ON FUTURE STRATEGIC STRIKE FORCES

In a major study of the future of U.S. strategic military forces
that was disclosed today, the Defense Science Board (DSB) urged
a reorientation of the U.S. nuclear weapons program towards
smaller, more versatile weapons.

"The nuclear weapons program as currently conceived - a program
focused primarily on refurbishing the legacy stockpile - will
not meet the country's future needs," the influential Pentagon
advisory group argued.

"Nuclear weapons are needed that produce much lower collateral
damage (great precision, deep penetration, greatly reduced
radioactivity); have robust performance margins; are devised for
ease of manufacture and maintenance; and produce special effects
(e.g., enhanced EMP, enhanced neutron flux, reduced fission
yield)."

At the same time, the DSB acknowledged that mission requirements
for nuclear weapons have changed.

"While we could previously execute some military operations only
with nuclear weapons, we can now execute many of these with
highly precise conventional weaponry.  The benefits of this
shift are significant.... U.S. interests are best served by
preserving into the future the half-century plus non-use of
nuclear weapons."

The DSB study also examined future intelligence requirements and
noted a variety of shortfalls, including "the inability to
identify and then track the location of adversary leadership
and/or components of WMD."

"These physically small entities are essentially impossible to
find without in situ, intrusive sensors and probably HUMINT as
well.  There has not been enough progress to date given the
post-September 11 need for such systems."

The comprehensive DSB study also assessed future command and
control issues as well as current and future delivery systems
(aircraft and missiles).

See the Report of the Defense Science Board Task Force on Future
Strategic Strike Forces, dated February 2004 and made public
today, here (166 pages, 4.4 MB PDF file):

http://www.fas.org/irp/agency/dod/dsb/fssf.pdf


SECRECY OF MISSILE DEFENSE TEST DATA QUESTIONED

A Pentagon move to classify a set of previously disclosed
recommendations regarding missile defense testing was challenged
yesterday by two Democratic congressmen in a letter to Defense
Secretary Rumsfeld.

"We are writing to request an explanation of the Defense
Department's decision to retroactively classify assessments by
independent Pentagon test evaluators that are highly critical of
the testing program for the national missile defense system,"
wrote Rep. Henry Waxman (D-CA) and Rep. John F. Tierney (D-MA).

The congressmen noted that the recommendations in question had
already been "released to the public, and... distributed
widely."

"The decision to classify the 50 specific recommendations set
forth by the Pentagon's chief testing officer is highly
dubious," they wrote.

"It appears to be an attempt to stymie public debate through the
use of the classification system."

See the March 25 letter from Reps. Waxman and Tierney here:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/congress/2004/h032504.pdf


RWANDA TEN YEARS AFTER

A new collection of declassified documents concerning the
genocide in Rwanda, which took place ten years ago, has been
published by the National Security Archive.

See "The U.S. and Genocide in Rwanda 1994:  Information,
Intelligence and the U.S. Response" edited with an introductory
essay by William Ferroggiaro, March 24:

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB117/index.htm


THE DALAI LAMA CALLS FOR FREEDOM OF INFORMATION

In a speech on the forty-fifth anniversary of the 1959 Tibetan
People's Uprising, the Dalai Lama urged greater freedom of
information as a driver of peaceful political change in China.

"China is undergoing a process of deep change. In order to
effect this change smoothly and without chaos and violence I
believe it is essential that there be more openness and greater
freedom of information and proper awareness among the general
public," he said.

"We should seek truth from facts--facts that are not falsified.
Without this China cannot hope to achieve genuine stability."

"How can there be stability if things must be hidden and people
are not able to speak out their true feelings?"

The full text of the Dalai Lama's March 10 speech was entered
into the Congressional Record here:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/congress/2004/s031004.html


JOHN DEAN:  WORSE THAN WATERGATE

A new book by former Nixon White House counsel and Watergate
whistleblower John W. Dean brings his special experience and
perspective to bear on the Bush Administration, and finds it
"worse than Watergate," which is also the book's title.

"To compare the Bush-Cheney presidency with Nixon's tenure and
Watergate and assert that it is worse than Watergate is not a
charge to be made lightly.  Nor do I."

But Dean sees in Administration policies the potential for a
profound unraveling of the constitutional order, particularly
should there be another large terrorist attack.

"There is... only one antidote: an end to the obsessive,
unjustified, and disproportionate secrecy that defines the Bush-
 Cheney White House," he writes.

Dean synthesizes a vast number of stories of secrecy run amok
and weaves them into an appalling fabric.  This is not a
dispassionate book.  It is angry and judgmental, a self-
 proclaimed polemic.  It will resonate most strongly with those
who have already figured out for themselves that there is
something profoundly wrong with the workings of our government
today.

See more information on "Worse Than Watergate: The Secret
Presidency of George W. Bush" by John W. Dean (Little, Brown,
April 2004) here:

http://www.twbookmark.com/books/15/031600023X/index.html


_______________________________________________
Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the
Federation of American Scientists.

To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to
secrecy_news-request.nul
with "subscribe" in the body of the message.

OR email your request to saftergood.nul

Secrecy News is archived at:
http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html

_______________________
Steven Aftergood
Project on Government Secrecy
Federation of American Scientists
web: www.fas.org/sgp/index.html
email: saftergood.nul
voice: (202) 454-4691








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   Mar > Mar 27

                           UFO Experts On UK Radio

From: Nick Pope <nick.nul>
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 17:16:02 -0000
Fwd Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 06:55:28 -0500
Subject: UFO Experts On UK Radio


Timothy Good and Esen Sekerkarar will be on James Whale's show
on the Talk Sport radio station this Monday evening, between
around 11pm and 1am.

They will discuss recent ufological developments with James and
will take calls from people who have questions about ufology, or
want to talk about a personal sighting.

Timothy Good will discuss some recent UFO sightings in the UK
and may give a taste of some of the material he's due to present
at Stephen Bassett's X-Conference on April 17-18:

http://www.paradigmclock.com/X-Conference/X-Conference.htm

Esen Sekerkarar will discuss UFO sightings and the state of
ufological research in Turkey, presenting a rare opportunity for
listeners to find out about material which is seldom publicised
in Britain or America.

Talk Sport broadcasts at 1089/1053am. You can listen online at
the following url:

http://www.talksport.net/listen


Best wishes,

Nick Pope








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              Re: The Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices -

From: Mike Fortson <satmike.nul>
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 10:24:22 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 07:00:40 -0500
Subject: Re: The Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices -



About the altitude of the A10, LUU2 flare drop.

What I feel some fail to think about is if the flares were
dropped at 12,000 altitude, what would the ignition altitude be?
The flares don't light up as soon as they drop. SOP procedure
would be a 6,000 foot drop, 3,000 ignition, and 500 extinguish.
So even if the flares were to be dropped at 16,000 - as I think
Dr Maccabee stated - the ignition altitude would be much, much
lower. And only those on mountainside homes viewed these lights
anyway.

As an 8:30 p.m. MST., witness to the massive V-shaped craft, I
must congratulate the media and the military for a very
successful diversion. Nearly all the attention of the profoundly
wonderful night on March 13, 1997, has been on those 5-10pm
videos.


Mike Fortson
Gilbert, Az.








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                Re: Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices? -

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 14:50:02 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 07:07:24 -0500
Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices? -


>From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 07:13:46 -0800
>Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices?

>>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 00:10:52 -0500
>>Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices?

<snip>

>What really bugs me about the Flare theory is: March 13, 1997
>was basically at the beginning of fire season in the Southwest.
>I was being called up early - then ended up having health
>problems,and ttopped flying for good later on.

>However, the dropping of flares at altitude over a very dry
>brushy, desert even at 15,000 or so feet, is asking to get a
>shovel to the right temple by Smokey Bear.

>Also, as I recall, the flare "drop" was _outside_ the Goldwater
>Range, not a good idea if you actually start a fire.

Inside Goldwater range if my distance calculations are correct.

>My problem: the Idea of a flare drop in general seems to be
>illogical, unless it was to divert attention from what really
>happened that night. Also, weren't the Prescott and Sedona
>areas involved too? No bombing range there. There was a nuke
>repository and ammo dump between Flagstaff and Prescott and a
>couple of MOAS. This might be worth looking into.


Illogical or not, the Guard admitted doing it.








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                Re: Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices? -

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 14:54:00 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 07:18:20 -0500
Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices? -


>From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 07:45:32 -0800
>Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices?

>>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 00:10:52 -0500
>>Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices?

<snip>

>>According to National Air Guard spokespeople in the summer of
>>1997, the flares were released at an unusually high altitude.
>>Capt. Eileen Benz, spokesperson for the Arizona National Guard,
>>and the person who discovered that flares had been dropped that
>>evening by the Maryland National Guard (Snowbirds), flares were
>>dropped at an altitude of 15,000 ft. Capt. Drew Sullins,
>>spokesman for the MD Nat. Guard. said a squad of A-10 using the
>>Bary Goldwater training range had "dumped several flares" at
>>high altitude.

>Bruce, you fail to mention that at that altitude and distance,
>these so-called perfectly round amber "flares" would be 1,500
>feet in diameter.

I don't know what you mean by this. The flares are fixed in size
by the metal tubes housing the fuel that is burned. Are you
trying to say thatthe flares change their size with altitude?

>There are too many discrepancis in the flare
>hypothesis and you know that we went round and round on this. I
>have the FOIA docs. The A-10s dropped LUU-2 flares over the
>North Tac Range. At least 63 of them. How come no one saw 63
l>ights?

You mean. how come no one in Phoenix reported the lights?
Probably dropped at a lower altitude. The high altitude drops or
"dumps" may have been under special circumstances. On the other
hand, from analyzing the 1998 lights I would conclude that some
flare are dropped at high altitude every year.








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                      7th Anniversary Of Heaven's Gate

From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 14:59:48 EST
Fwd Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 07:29:53 -0500
Subject: 7th Anniversary Of Heaven's Gate


http://www.thesandiegochannel.com/news/2952773/detail.html


I'll never forget that day! Let's hope it never happens again.


Best,

Greg








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                Re: Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices? -

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 15:01:25 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 07:32:42 -0500
Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices? -


>From: Barry Taylor <stingray.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 17:05:06 +1100
>Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices?

>>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 11:09:50 -0400
>>Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices?

<snip>

>>I'm going to keep asking these questions until one or both of
>>you answer them. Explain why these flares were released at such
>>an altitude as to be seen 60-80 miles away in Pheonix when the
>>flares are ineffective above 1,000 to 1,500 feet for ground
>>illumination [the reason they would be deployed in the first
>>place].

>Valid questions you ask Don. I personally do not think the
>flares were dropped 60-80 miles away. If they were seen from
>that distance, then the Phoenix Lights event would be common
>place and not such a surprise to the local residents as this,
>and other similar events at the time. They must have been
>closer.

You are forgetting that there are numerous mountains and a
mountain range (Estrella Range) just south of Phoenix which sets
a lower bound to the altitude over the training range at which
lights could be seen. The people who videotaped the lights on
March 13 were at high enough altitude to see over the mountains
(this applies to the lights at 10 PM). The bottom line is that,
if high enough, they could be seen from higher altitude in
Phoenix even though they were 80 or so miles away.

>I am thinking that the influx of large UFO's around the
>area caused the Mil. to take this action so as to keep the UFO
>away from the eyes of the population of Phoenix. If this was the
>purpose, than illumination of the ground was not a factor. Refer
>to my original post dated, 19-3-04 with this link to my article:

>http://www.theozfactor.cjb.net/hoax_05.htm

>Have your read it? If no more close or similar flare activity
>over the last 4 years, then you may sway your thoughts my way.
>That could be proof. I say 4 years because that appears to be
>the time when the bulk of UFO Disc activity drematically
>diminished. But that is another story.

I believe that there have been Phoenix Lights sightings every
year since (and some in years before... just not combined with a
major UFO event... the "flyover:" at 8:30 PM)

>The flares did their job well. The news headlines were not
>featuring the large UFO "V" craft. Imagine if they were.

I suppose that a "misdirection ploy" is a possibility.








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              Re: Spectacular Fireball Likely A Meteor - Heath

From: Gord Heath <gheath.nul>
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 16:38:55 -0800
Fwd Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 07:36:08 -0500
Subject: Re: Spectacular Fireball Likely A Meteor - Heath


>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 17:14:52 -0800
>Subject: Spectacular Fireball Likely A Meteor

>Source: Fort Frances Times - Ontario

>http://www.fftimes.com/index.php/17/2004-03-23/13702

>March 23, 2004


One of the local TV newcasts here in Vancouver showed video
capture from a Calgary backyard astronomer of the fireball
event. He has a special lens that captures the whole night sky.
The video shown in the newscast has the fireball near the
horizon, showing two sort of bursts of light. The night was
actually quite hazy and you could not see stars on the video,
making the recording even more remarkable. I hope someone does
some analysis of this very interesting video.

I also saw a report that one of the professors from University
of Saskatchewan (I believe), was trying to locate the meteorite
in Rosetown, Saskatchewan. Has anyone actually come up with a
track of this meteor event?


Cheers!

Gord Heath
UFOBC












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              Re: Spectacular Fireball Likely a Meteor - Heath

From: Gord Heath <gheath.nul>
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 16:42:37 -0800
Fwd Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 07:41:33 -0500
Subject: Re: Spectacular Fireball Likely a Meteor - Heath


>From: Gord Heath <gheath.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 16:38:55 -0800
>Subject: Re: Spectacular Fireball Likely a Meteor


>One of the local TV newcasts here in Vancouver showed video
>capture from a Calgary backyard astronomer of the fireball
>event. He has a special lens that captures the whole night sky.

Here is a link to the CBC story.

www.cbc.ca/stories/2004/03/25/sci-tech/meteor040325


Cheers!

Gord Heath
UFOBC












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              Re: DIA Dances Around The FOIA Maypole - Freeman

From: Kelly Freeman <Khfflsciufo.nul<
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 20:17:00 EST
Fwd Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 07:44:16 -0500
Subject: Re: DIA Dances Around The FOIA Maypole - Freeman


>From: Larry W. Bryant <overtci.nul>
>To: UFO Updates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 15:32:11 -0500
>Subject: DIA Dances Around The FOIA Maypole

<snip>

>If we citizens no longer can trust such agencies as the DIA,
>CIA, NSA, and FBI to faithfully discharge their obligation to
>comply with both the spirit and the letter of open-access law,
>have we already lost the battle to preserve, protect, and expand
>our democratic ideals?

Larry,

Maybe we should get mad as hell... and tell them we are not
going to take it anymore. My own feeling is that the UFO
research community needs to start from scratch and put together
a well organized effort to counter such antics by these
agencies. But they need to be sustainable endeavors, and not
suffer the fate like that of Operation Right To Know or The
Disclosure Project.

We may lose the battle... but we have to win the war.  :)


Kelly F.








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                  A Sky Spectacle That's Out Of This World

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 04:57:16 -0800
Fwd Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 11:29:24 -0500
Subject: A Sky Spectacle That's Out Of This World



Source: Dayton Daily News

http://www.daytondailynews.com/localnews/content/localnews/daily/0326planets=
.html

3-26-04

Look, up in the sky! It's a spectacle that's out of this world

Thanks to a rare alignment in the heavens, sky-gazers can find
five planets strung across the Miami Valley morning or evening
sky for a couple weeks.

The positions of Mercury, Venus, Mars, Saturn and Jupiter place
them on the same side of the sun as Earth, and astronomers say
the alignment is an extra special treat because our five nearest
planetary neighbors will appear to be assembled in a small
corner of the sky.

They are best seen just after sunset every night through early
April.

Astronomers also note that the five planets will again be
together at the end of this year and early January 2005.

Viewers will notice that Venus is the brightest of the lot, an
appearance attributable to its position in relation to Earth.

Joe Tarkany, a Miami Valley Astronomical Society board member,
said representatives will provide viewing opportunities tonight
at the Boonshoft Museum of Discovery Apollo Observatory from
7:30 to 9:30 p.m. =97 provided the sky is clear.











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                      Radio Search For ET Draws A Blank

From: Joe McGonagle <joe.mcgonagle.nul>
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 12:39:48 -0000
Fwd Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 12:32:47 -0500
Subject: Radio Search For ET Draws A Blank


Radio search for ET draws a blank

By Dr David Whitehouse
BBC News Online science editor

Arecibo scanned the skies for ET
Astronomers have completed their most sensitive search yet for
radio signals from intelligent life in space.

For full story, please visit:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/3567729.stm


Joe








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             Re: Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices? - Hatch

From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 05:37:16 -0800
Fwd Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 12:34:47 -0500
Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices? - Hatch


>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 15:01:25 -0500
>Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices?

>>From: Barry Taylor <stingray.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 17:05:06 +1100
>>Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices?

>>>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 11:09:50 -0400
>>>Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices?

<snip>

>>I am thinking that the influx of large UFO's around the area
>>caused the Mil. to take this action so as to keep the UFO away
>>from the eyes of the population of Phoenix. If this was the
>>purpose, than illumination of the ground was not a factor. Refer
>>to my original post dated, 19-3-04 with this link to my article:

>>http://www.theozfactor.cjb.net/hoax_05.htm

>>Have your read it? If no more close or similar flare activity
>>over the last 4 years, then you may sway your thoughts my way.
>>That could be proof. I say 4 years because that appears to be
>>the time when the bulk of UFO Disc activity drematically
>>diminished. But that is another story.

>I believe that there have been Phoenix Lights sightings every
>year since (and some in years before... just not combined with a
>major UFO event... the "flyover:" at 8:30 PM)

>>The flares did their job well. The news headlines were not
>>featuring the large UFO "V" craft. Imagine if they were.

>I suppose that a "misdirection ploy" is a possibility.


Hello Bruce, Barry, Don ...

I hope nobody here is suggesting that space aliens put on a
light show for the benefit of Phoenix, AZ.

The mis-direction idea (or diversion as the military say) might
have some merit, but I wouldn't put money on that either.

I suppose its possible that the military used flares or
something else to divert attention from some new Flying Triangle
technology they are playing with.

There were some murmurs of a large lighter-than-air craft that
sounds a lot like the FTs sometimes reported. Why they would
pick a major metropolis is beyond me, unless that's part of the
plan .. maybe something like Belgium in the 1980s .. to
calibrate its 'visibility'.

All that is sheer speculation on my part. What I really really
really doubt is that space aliens put on a light show for the
bored denizens of Phoenix, AZ.


Best wishes

- Larry Hatch








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                Re: Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices? -

From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul>
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 07:00:13 -0600
Fwd Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 12:36:56 -0500
Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices? -


>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
>Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 14:54:00 -0500
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices?

>>From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 07:45:32 -0800
>>Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices?

>>>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 00:10:52 -0500
>>>Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices?

><snip>

>>>According to National Air Guard spokespeople in the summer of
>>>1997, the flares were released at an unusually high altitude.
>>>Capt. Eileen Benz, spokesperson for the Arizona National Guard,
>>>and the person who discovered that flares had been dropped that
>>>evening by the Maryland National Guard (Snowbirds), flares were
>>>dropped at an altitude of 15,000 ft. Capt. Drew Sullins,
>>>spokesman for the MD Nat. Guard. said a squad of A-10 using the
>>>Bary Goldwater training range had "dumped several flares" at
>>>high altitude.

>>Bruce, you fail to mention that at that altitude and distance,
>>these so-called perfectly round amber "flares" would be 1,500
>>feet in diameter.

>I don't know what you mean by this. The flares are fixed in size
>by the metal tubes housing the fuel that is burned. Are you
>trying to say thatthe flares change their size with altitude?

>>There are too many discrepancis in the flare
>>hypothesis and you know that we went round and round on this. I
>>have the FOIA docs. The A-10s dropped LUU-2 flares over the
>>North Tac Range. At least 63 of them. How come no one saw 63
>l>ights?

>You mean. how come no one in Phoenix reported the lights?
>Probably dropped at a lower altitude. The high altitude drops or
>"dumps" may have been under special circumstances. On the other
>hand, from analyzing the 1998 lights I would conclude that some
>flare are dropped at high altitude every year.

You know - before the casual reader gets numb on this, perhaps
an intermission reminder is in order, a non-protein torpondo, a
micro-mini mind missile... a helpful interjection.

Before we allow ourselves to allow a debunking of flares to
discredit the whole Phoenix affair, there was more than enough,
similar, stuff going on... recorded before and after the 'flare'
incident... and Errol just last week hosted a very credible
woman - Dr. Lynne D. Kitei - author and witness of 'The Phoenix
Lights' (who we've been very quiet about) who puts the point to
that - eh?

By all means lets wash the details and see what's colorfast...
but I think it entirely reasonable that flares were released at
that altitude (which is otherwise ludicrous... I don't know the
airway structure in that area, but a spent flare, which are kind
of designed to 'hang' for obvious reasons, and burned out would
be a hazard to pelicans, private, and commercial aircraft...)
released at that altitude to confuse the issue... and to give
someone like Kal K. Korff a reason to discredit the whole
apparent bleedin' thing... using the specific to fallaciously
defuse the aggregate.

We all need to remember that something very ~real~ occurred in
and around that time... whatever the disposition of 'flares'.

alienview.nul
www.AlienView.net

Photo Album: http://www.alienview.net/AVAlbum.htm
(send picture as attachment to alienview.nul)
Splash page:  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AlienViewGroup/
Radio Show & Splash Page: http://www.alienview.net/alienviews.htm
Radio Show Archives: Out of Service at this time...
http://www.alienview.net/N2Ltune.html -- The music in me...








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                         European Voice UFO Article

From: Nick Pope <nick.nul>
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 14:59:21 -0000
Fwd Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 12:40:00 -0500
Subject: European Voice UFO Article


List,

James Drew, Sub Editor of European Voice, has kindly given his
consent to my posting the text of his article from the 18-24 March
edition of the newspaper.

-----

Scepticism set to scupper any chance of Union-led UFO research

By James Drew

Are we alone in the universe? If not, are we being visited by
our intergalactic neighbours? Such questions, normally pondered
following an excellent supper, when port and cigars are handed
out and thoughts turn to philosophical matters, have once again
appeared on the European Parliament's radar screen.

On 20 January, Union for Europe of the Nations (UEN) MEP
Sebastiano Musumeci submitted a proposal concerning the
"creation of a Community body for the study of unexplained
atmospheric phenomena". In other words, unidentified flying
objects (UFOs). "For a long time now," Musumeci declared,
"sightings=85have been reported in all corners of the globe. Some
of these phenomena=85not only cause considerable perplexity but
also fuel theories =96 so far lacking any foundation =96 on the
probable existence of aliens."

The Italian MEP pointed out that the European Commission should
pay special attention to the "serious study" by various European
space centres and research establishments, "since these
phenomena do not fall within the scope of individual member
state competence". "In the light of the above, would the
Commission not consider it appropriate to promote and coordinate
research and information on unexplained atmospheric phenomena at
a Europe- wide level, possibly assigning this responsibility to
a specialized and experienced body, such as [French government
organization] Service d'Expertise des Phenomenes de Rentrees
Atmospheriques (SEPRA) in Toulouse, or the European Space
Agency?"

It is not the first time that such a recommendation has been put
before EU institutions and, considering Belgium's previous
history of remarkable (and well-documented) sightings, perhaps
the question's most surprising characteristic is its rarity.

For at least eight months, beginning in October 1989, Belgium
experienced near-daily sightings of large triangular-shaped
UFOs. The sightings began near Eupen, close to the Dutch and
German border, and then progressed steadily westward to Liege,
Namur, Wavre, Mons and, finally, toward the French border. Among
the witnesses were nearly two hundred members and officers of
the gendarmerie nationale as well as policemen, military and
civilian pilots, air traffic controllers, meteorologists,
aeronautical engineers and physicists.

Observers frequently described the objects as being "as big as a
football field", "as big as, or bigger than, an aircraft
carrier". An account also describes one "hovering for minutes at
a time and [it would] pivot, turning 90 degrees and even 180
degrees" and then moving "too slowly to be a conventional
aeroplane", before "accelerating so rapidly that it would be
across the horizon in a second or two =96 and sometimes it would
flash right back".

On 30-31 March 1990, Belgian Air Force (BAF) F-16 jets were
scrambled to intercept the unknown intruders, their radar
confirming the objects' ability to elude their pursuers by means
of phenomenal manoeuvres, as evident on the radar tapes later
released to the media. In Vague d'OVNI sur la Belgique (Wave of
UFOs over Belgium), a two-volume text produced by Brussels-
 based research group Societe Belge d'Etude des Phenomenes
Spatiaux, retired deputy chief of the BAF, Major-General
Wilfried De Brouwer, said: "The Air Force has arrived at the
conclusion that a number of anomalous phenomena has been
produced within Belgian airspace. The numerous testimonies of
observations=85 reinforced by the [Air Force] reports of the night
of 30-31 March, have led us to face the hypothesis that a
certain number of unauthorized aerial activities have taken
place."

These remarkable events led to a resolution being proposed by
Belgian deputy Elio Di Rupo to the European Parliament in 1991.
The assembly's committee on industry, external trade, research
and energy held numerous meetings, chaired by Tullio Regge, an
Italian Independent MEP and physicist. Di Rupo's intention was
to bring about an all-European agency, run by the Commission and
with a standing committee of experts from the member states,
which would collate and analyze UFO reports from the military,
scientific organizations and the general public.

In a report tabled in December 1993 =96 accepted unanimously by
the committee =96 Regge proposed that SEPRA in Toulouse be given a
statute enabling it to carry out inquiries throughout the EU.
But the proposal to establish what might have become the
European UFO observation centre attracted a great deal of
ridicule in the media and the motion was defeated in early 1994.

In his report, Regge expressed considerable scepticism about the
majority of UFO 'sightings', although he noted that "scientists
still have a duty to continue researching into these events in
order to arrive at a satisfactory explanation". Later, he
emphasized that the proposal by the committee had focused on the
creation of a European evaluation centre within SEPRA, rather
than on a study of the phenomena per se, but largely thanks to
ridicule in the media =96 particularly in the UK =96 critics ignored
this point.

"I was attacked by two UK Labour MEPs who probably hadn't even
read the report," lamented the scientist. "I was accused of
asking for money to do research into Father Christmas and things
of this kind. They put obstacles in my path and this developed
into a strong attack by the UK. I believe that Labour MEPs
decided to attack this report for political reasons, just to
make a fuss."

Almost certainly as a result of the ensuing ridicule, the-then
European Parliament president Egon Klepsch omitted the debate
from its agenda on 21 January 1994. Regge proposed a new text,
but because the Parliament was approaching the end of session
(owing to the election in June 1994) there was insufficient time
to bring the proposal before the assembly's full session.

The reaction comes as no surprise to hardnosed investigators.
Timothy Good, UK bestselling author of ufologists' 'bibles',
such as Beyond Top Secret (1996) and Unearthly Disclosure
(2000), one of the world's most highly regarded UFO experts,
 and a man inured, after 50 years of painstaking research, to
sceptics' slings and arrows, believes that fear of mockery has
held back serious debate on the issue for too long.

"No one wants to look foolish, least of all politicians," he
told European Voice. "When faced with worldwide media that seems
hell-bent on mocking any research, no matter how sober or well
intentioned, it is hardly surprising that people become
discouraged. I welcome Musumeci's proposal, but I fear that
nothing will come of it."

His view is echoed by Nick Pope, who was responsible for the
UK's Ministry of Defence (MoD) UFO research project from 1991-
94: "Despite being interested in Musumeci's Parliamentary
question concerning the study of unexplained atmospheric
phenomena, I doubt the European Commission will accept the
suggestion, despite the fact that coordinating research and
investigation on a Union-wide basis seems like a very sensible
idea.

"It is a great pity that the Commission does not promote and
coordinate research into such matters. "During my time at the
MoD's UFO research project, we investigated several hundred
sighting reports each year and, while most could be explained as
misidentifications of known objects or phenomena, others
appeared to defy any conventional explanation.

"Whatever the explanation for them, if there are things in our
airspace that we do not understand, this raises a number of
defence and flight safety issues."

Pope also agrees with Musumeci's point that "this is not an
issue confined to any one member state". "If we pool our data
and work together on the problem, we stand a better chance of
solving the mystery."

Panel Text:

UFO Sightings across Europe

1942-45: Allied pilots on bombing raids over Germany reported
seeing unusual balls of lights and small metallic discs. Dubbed
'Foo Fighters', the Allies feared they were a new Nazi weapon.
After the war it transpired that German air crew had seen them
too, but were also unaware of their origin.

1946: Strange objects were seen over Norway, Sweden and Finland.
UK and American intelligence took a close interest in sightings
of these so-called ghost rockets, but no explanation was ever
found.

1956: A series of UFO sightings took place over England, in
August. Objects were tracked on radars at Royal Air Force (RAF)
Lakenheath and RAF Bentwaters and the RAF scrambled two Venom
fighters to try to intercept the object. One pilot said he saw
the UFO, which eluded the jets.

1980: In December, United States Air Force personnel based at
RAF Bentwaters and RAF Woodbridge in England reported seeing a
landed UFO in Rendlesham Forest, in Suffolk. Radiation readings
were taken from the landing site, assessed as being ten times
the norm for the area.

1981: In January, a UFO was seen landing near the village of
Trans-en-Provence in France. Unusual marks were found at the
landing site and an analysis of the soil showed various
anomalies.

1990: On 5 November a number of fast jets travelling from the UK
to Germany were overtaken by a UFO as they were entering Dutch
airspace.  The pilots submitted an official report to the
British Ministry of Defence.

1993: In March, a UFO flew over RAF Cosford and RAF Shawbury,
seen by military personnel. A report was sent to UK Ministry of
Defence.








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   Mar > Mar 27

                  Methane Find On Mars May Be Sign Of Life

From: Dan Bright <ufo.nul>
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 15:22:53 -0000
Fwd Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 12:40:51 -0500
Subject: Methane Find On Mars May Be Sign Of Life


Source: The Independent

http://tinyurl.com/2krjq

Methane find on Mars may be sign of life

By Steve Connor, Science Editor
27 March 2004

A strong signal of life on Mars has been detected by scientists
at the US National Aeronautics and Space Admin- istration (Nasa)
and the European Space Agency.

Each group has independently discovered tantalising evidence of
methane in the Martian atmosphere. Methane, a waste product of
living organisms on Earth, could also be a by-product of alien
microbes living under the surface of the Red Planet.

The detection of methane has been the holy grail of scientists
studying the Martian atmosphere, as its presence could provide
unequivocal proof that there is life beyond Earth.

Neither Nasa nor the European Space Agency (ESA) has publicly
announced the findings, but specialists who have seen the data
believe the discovery is genuine - although they are unsure what
it means in terms of confirming the presence of life.

The discovery comes weeks after Nasa and ESA announced new
findings relating to the presence of huge bodies of water on
Mars which could have supported life.

The European effort is led by Vittorio Formisano, of the
Institute of Physics and Interplanetary Science in Rome, who
operates the methane-detecting spectrometer on board the Mars
Express spacecraft orbiting the planet. "We can identify the
presence of methane in the Martian atmosphere and we've been
able to evaluate how much of it there would be," Professor
Formisano said. "Globally, if I average all the data I have, I
can find something of the order of 10 or 10.5 parts per billion.
It's detectable, but only if I average a lot of data."

Methane is destroyed by the intense ultraviolet radiation on
Mars because the gas has a relatively short photochemical
lifetime of about 300 years, so if it is present there must be
something producing it continually, Professor Formisano said.
"[Its presence] is significant and very important. If it is
present you need a source," he added.

The second group to detect signals of methane in the Martian
atmosphere is led by Michael Mumma of Nasa's Goddard Space
Flight Centre in Maryland, who used powerful spectroscopic
telescopes based on Earth.

This team is even believed to have detected variations in the
concentrations of methane, with a peak coming from the ancient
Martian seabed of Meridiani Planum, which is being explored by a
Nasa rover.

This could indicate a subterranean source of methane which is
pumping out the gas, either due to some residual geological
activity or because of the presence of living organisms
producing it as a waste gas.

Asked whether the continual production of methane is strong
evidence of a biological origin of the gas, Dr Mumma said: "I
think it is, myself personally."

He added: "It's difficult to imagine that primordial methane
[from geological activity] would continue outgassing for four
billion years [the age of Mars]. This looks very intriguing."

Both teams of scientists are now busy validating their results
before their respective organisations are prepared to go public
on the implications.

--
Dan Bright
www.UFOresearch.org








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   Mar > Mar 27

                Re: Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices? -

From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22.nul>
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 07:27:55 -0800
Fwd Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 12:42:19 -0500
Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices? -


>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
>Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 14:54:00 -0500
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices?

>>From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 07:45:32 -0800
>>Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices?

>>>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 00:10:52 -0500
>>>Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices?

><snip>

>>>According to National Air Guard spokespeople in the summer of
>>>1997, the flares were released at an unusually high altitude.
>>>Capt. Eileen Benz, spokesperson for the Arizona National Guard,
>>>and the person who discovered that flares had been dropped that
>>>evening by the Maryland National Guard (Snowbirds), flares were
>>>dropped at an altitude of 15,000 ft. Capt. Drew Sullins,
>>>spokesman for the MD Nat. Guard. said a squad of A-10 using the
>>>Bary Goldwater training range had "dumped several flares" at
>>>high altitude.

>>Bruce, you fail to mention that at that altitude and distance,
>>these so-called perfectly round amber "flares" would be 1,500
>>feet in diameter.

>I don't know what you mean by this. The flares are fixed in size
>by the metal tubes housing the fuel that is burned. Are you
>trying to say thatthe flares change their size with altitude?

I am saying that based on the angular displacement of the light
and its distance from my viewing point, and trig calculations
indicate it to be over 1,500 feet in diameter. Pretty large
flares.

However, the FOIA response I rceived last year does not mention
any high altitude drop or dispensing of flares outside the
gunnery range. This is at odds with Eileen Beinz's remarks. Also
Sullins said they dispensed the flares on the North Tac Range.
Wehn they re-enacted the flare drop, it was also on the same
range, not near Ajo.

>>There are too many discrepancis in the flare
>>hypothesis and you know that we went round and round on this. I
>>have the FOIA docs. The A-10s dropped LUU-2 flares over the
>>North Tac Range. At least 63 of them. How come no one saw 63
>>lights?

>You mean. how come no one in Phoenix reported the lights?
>Probably dropped at a lower altitude. The high altitude drops or
>"dumps" may have been under special circumstances. On the other
>hand, from analyzing the 1998 lights I would conclude that some
>flare are dropped at high altitude every year.

No record of higher drops. A total of 117 flares were dispensed
over 2 days. These were bright white and smoked a lot. No one
who saaw the amber orbs reported these flares. The flares were
easily identified as such by witnesses in the year 2000 re-
enactment.








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   Mar > Mar 27

              Re: The Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices -

From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22.nul>
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 07:31:05 -0800
Fwd Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 12:43:54 -0500
Subject: Re: The Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices -


>From: Mike Fortson <satmike.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 10:24:22 -0700
>Subject: Phoenix Lights

>About the altitude of the A10, LUU2 flare drop.

>What I feel some fail to think about is if the flares were
>dropped at 12,000 altitude, what would the ignition altitude be?
>The flares don't light up as soon as they drop. SOP procedure
>would be a 6,000 foot drop, 3,000 ignition, and 500 extinguish.
>So even if the flares were to be dropped at 16,000 - as I think
>Dr Maccabee stated - the ignition altitude would be much, much
>lower. And only those on mountainside homes viewed these lights
>anyway.

>As an 8:30 p.m. MST., witness to the massive V-shaped craft, I
>must congratulate the media and the military for a very
>successful diversion. Nearly all the attention of the profoundly
>wonderful night on March 13, 1997, has been on those 5-10pm
>videos.

You are right Mike. Little attention has been paid to your
sighting, Tim Ley's sighting, and Max's sighting of the big
triangle and few realize that you describe a V-shape and that
others saw a large Triangle-shape. That makes two large objects,
not one.


-Bill








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   Mar > Mar 27

                         Re: Phoenix Lights - Kelly

From: Jim Kelly <Azredant.nul>
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 12:40:49 EST
Fwd Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 12:51:47 -0500
Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights - Kelly


>From: Mike Fortson <satmike.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 10:24:22 -0700
>Subject: Phoenix Lights

>About the altitude of the A10, LUU2 flare drop.

>What I feel some fail to think about is if the flares were
>dropped at 12,000 altitude, what would the ignition altitude be?
>The flares don't light up as soon as they drop. SOP procedure
>would be a 6,000 foot drop, 3,000 ignition, and 500 extinguish.
>So even if the flares were to be dropped at 16,000 - as I think
>Dr Maccabee stated - the ignition altitude would be much, much
>lower. And only those on mountainside homes viewed these lights
>anyway.

>As an 8:30 p.m. MST., witness to the massive V-shaped craft, I
>must congratulate the media and the military for a very
>successful diversion. Nearly all the attention of the profoundly
>wonderful night on March 13, 1997, has been on those 5-10pm
>videos.


It all depends on who you talk to about this. I heard that the
flares were dropped between 17,000 and 20,000 feet. Can anyone
confirm this? Bruce? Tom?

As for the diversion theory, why would the military wait 90
minutes after the giant triangular craft was buzzing around
Phoenix to come up with using the Maryland National Guard as a
diversion? It would have made more sense to send them up right
after the 8:30 event then waiting until 10:00 PM. Remember, the
MNG was already here because they had re-fueled in Phoenix that
morning.

Jim Kelly








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   Mar > Mar 28

             Re: Methane Find On Mars May Be Sign Of Life - Hall

From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 18:05:44 +0000
Fwd Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 13:53:14 -0500
Subject: Re: Methane Find On Mars May Be Sign Of Life - Hall


>From: Dan Bright <ufo.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 15:22:53 -0000
>Subject: Methane Find On Mars May Be Sign Of Life

>Source: The Independent

>http://tinyurl.com/2krjq

>Methane find on Mars may be sign of life

>By Steve Connor, Science Editor
>27 March 2004

>A strong signal of life on Mars has been detected by scientists
>at the US National Aeronautics and Space Admin- istration (Nasa)
>and the European Space Agency.

>Each group has independently discovered tantalising evidence of
>methane in the Martian atmosphere. Methane, a waste product of
>living organisms on Earth, could also be a by-product of alien
>microbes living under the surface of the Red Planet.

<snip>

Well, that explains the Martian "UFO." Swamp gas!


 - Dick










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              Re: The Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices -

From: Jim Kelly <Azredant.nul>
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 13:24:12 EST
Fwd Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 13:57:25 -0500
Subject: Re: The Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices -


>From: Stuart Miller <stuart.miller4.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 16:55:19 -0000
>Subject: Re: The Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices

>The following is a short extract from an interview conducted
>between myself and Dr. Lynne Kitei, author of the book The
>Phoenix Lights, for UFO Review, a new on-line e-zine to be
>launched soon. The full interview will appear in the first
>edition, TBA.

>Interview date: 24th. March 04.

>Time: 11:00 pm GMT.

>SM is Stuart Miller

>LK is Doctor Lynne Kitei.


>SM: What is your reaction these days, now, when you still hear
>the word "flares" mentioned in connection with the lights?

>LK: Oh boy, that does get my ire. First of all, they weren't
>flares! That I know. It's funny you should mention that because
>last night, the three hour show (Coast To Coast 3/24/04) went so
>well and we were getting such wonderful callers, from all over
>the United States. It was just really amazing that all these
>people were up in the middle of the night listening to this and
>it was really comforting. I ve had so much positive
>reinforcement. The last caller though, this guy says, I know you
>were looking south so it must have been flares on the Barry
>Goldwater range .

>Well, besides the fact that if you just look at the data,
>there's no way these were flares because they don't act like
>flares. They defy physics, as we know it, as I've been told by
>numerous optical specialists. Flares cannot stay in a straight
>line, they cannot form formations, for sure, they're very
>erratic, they're white not amber. They have giant slope trails
>and they reflect. That's what they're used for; to reflect light
>on air.

You have got to be kidding me Lynn! Then why did you allow Dr.
Sky, who hosted your book signing event in Scottsdale, AZ,
inform the crowd that the 10:00 PM event was most likely
military flares? I was at that function. Now you are saying that
they could not have been flares?? Which is it?

>This didn't come up until a month after the USA Today article,
>when I know the media was just badgering, as we were, for an
>explanation and so they had to come up with something. The only
>real hard data that they had were the four videos that night of
>us looking south, so whoever thought it up was certainly very
>bright and could make a case because the video itself does not
>do it justice. It does not do it justice at all because they re
>white in the video; they flicker in the video which they do not
>do in real life. They appear smaller as well.

>People that want to feed into that explanation, do. Either
>they're fearful of the real explanation or they just can't deal
>with thinking about it and it's just easier for them to slip
>into a logical explanation. What's funny to me is that if you
>look at the data, there's just no way. It's comical now when
>somebody brings it up and some people are very hard set on it, I
>have to tell you. Like this guy on the radio programme last
>night. I also received an e-mail to that affect from a guy
>that's with the Snowbirds somewhere. These are the people that
>really don't look at the data. They hear an explanation; they
>jump on it and say, That's fine.

Or, they do a complete investigation, utilize facts rather than
what they would like to believe!!! It is interesting that almost
all of your sightings took place in the direction of the
Goldwater Range, where military aircraft come from all over to
perform flare dumping campaigns. Yet, that information was not
in your book!!!

>Well what about the mile long triangular craft that everybody
>saw. What about that phenomena? To me it's just as important if
>not more so because thousands of people saw that as well, or
>lights attached to something, which is very similar to what I
>photographed, obviously.

A good point. _That_ is the real mystery here. A large
Triangular aircraft moving slowly through Phoenix at around 8:30
PM. Not the obvious flare lights at 10:00 PM.

>A number of people saw these orbs detach from the main object
>and go out into the environment, which maybe was what happened
>in 95 to my husband and I, and then re-dock. That we didn't find
>out about until over a year, in December, after the mass
>sighting when I went back to the negatives and tried to find the
>one with four lights, which I realised was actually from 95. It
>shows quite clearly that when the closed orbs were disappearing,
>and when there were three orbs there originally, one on top and
>two underneath, there were six lights in the background. Two of
>them disappeared as the top orb disappeared so that we saw four
>in the background when two were there. Then when there's only
>one orb, there's two in the background. So the same formation in
>the same location, disappearing in the background when we re
>seeing the closed orbs as well. It' s a little too coincidental.

A number of people saw the lights blink out after just a few
minutes. Why isn't that in your book? That is the problem with
witness testimony concerning night-time UFO events. People see
different things, all of our perceptions are different because
human emotions are tied in to them.

You have the credible studies of Tom King and Bruce M. that say
the 10:00 PM event was flares. Yet you dismiss that too?

>I can get into this for a while but the bottom line is it s
>happening world wide and other countries are much more open to
>it as well. The flare theory is frustrating to me only in the
>fact that some people feed into it. That's OK if that gives them
>peace. Everybody in their own time. If that explanation is
>justified in their own mind and they can live with that, OK.
>That's up to them.

You don't think that flare drops are not common worldwide? They
happen on an almost daily occurrence. Just check out Peter
Davenport's website.

Now I will be the first to admit that not all of these sightings
are not flares. Yet, how do you distinguish military flare
lights or a UFO sighting?

Jim Kelly










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   Mar > Mar 28

                         Re: Phoenix Lights - Ledger

From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 13:59:32 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 13:58:46 -0500
Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights - Ledger


>From: Jim Kelly <Azredant.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 12:40:49 EST
>Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights

>>From: Mike Fortson <satmike.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 10:24:22 -0700
>>Subject: Phoenix Lights

>>About the altitude of the A10, LUU2 flare drop.

>>What I feel some fail to think about is if the flares were
>>dropped at 12,000 altitude, what would the ignition altitude be?
>>The flares don't light up as soon as they drop. SOP procedure
>>would be a 6,000 foot drop, 3,000 ignition, and 500 extinguish.
>>So even if the flares were to be dropped at 16,000 - as I think
>>Dr Maccabee stated - the ignition altitude would be much, much
>>lower. And only those on mountainside homes viewed these lights
>>anyway.

>>As an 8:30 p.m. MST., witness to the massive V-shaped craft, I
>>must congratulate the media and the military for a very
>>successful diversion. Nearly all the attention of the profoundly
>>wonderful night on March 13, 1997, has been on those 5-10pm
>>videos.

>It all depends on who you talk to about this. I heard that the
>flares were dropped between 17,000 and 20,000 feet. Can anyone
>confirm this? Bruce? Tom?

>As for the diversion theory, why would the military wait 90
>minutes after the giant triangular craft was buzzing around
>Phoenix to come up with using the Maryland National Guard as a
>diversion? It would have made more sense to send them up right
>after the 8:30 event then waiting until 10:00 PM. Remember, the
>MNG was already here because they had re-fueled in Phoenix that
>morning.


I think the whole point is being missed here. Why were flares
being "ignited" at 12 thousand to 15,000 feet? Remember I said
ignited-not dropped. Because of the A-10's mission capabilities
it doesn't make sense. Don't forget the "flares" are preset on
the ground before the mission.

Note from Manufacturer: The mechanical timer is a three-gear
timer, powered by a torsional mainspring. A phosphorescent
plastic decal with calibrated markings from 250 to 11,000 feet
of fall is located on the face of the timer cover. A white,
plastic, dial timer knob is used to set the desired drop
distance. Settings of 150,500, and 1,000 to 11,000 feet can be
selected. A safe setting is also provided.

Re the FOIA, it is unreliable information to my mind. And as for
Information Officer's statement-she was likely an uniformed
mouthpiece with no real knowledge of the event.


Don Ledger








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   Mar > Mar 28

                         Re: Are We Alone? - LeClair

From: Aaron LeClair <force.nul>
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 15:02:11 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 15:21:38 -0500
Subject: Re: Are We Alone? - LeClair


>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 07:21:14 -0800
>Subject: Are We Alone?

>Source: Iowa City Press Citizen

>http://www.press-citizen.com/news/032404seti.htm

>March 24, 2004

>Are we alone?

>Speaker tells of technology hunt for extraterrestrials

>By Kristen Schorsch
>Iowa City Press-Citizen

>Spaceships shaped like Frisbee discs. Skinny beings with large
>heads, long fingers and oval-shaped eyes.

>Nope. Not for Kevin Hansen.

<snip>

It's weird that a lot of these SETI astronomers say there is not
one shred of scientific evidence to support ufos, alien
abduction etc., therefore they search for signals. It's
inconsistent. They don't apply the same mode of thinking to
their trade. I find it sad that there is more evidence to
support alien visitation than there is for dark-matter, seti
signals, cosmic strings, and awhile back, black-holes and extra-
solor planets.

No one to this day has seen a black-hole or these new planets we
are finding, not to mention has a piece of one. They don't get
ridiculed though.  I know, I know, that is because of the nature
of the beast. Yet, let's consider the nature of the beast in
regards to the ETH.

A tech. advance species could be as hard to detect as a black-
hole. They could outsmart us, out stealth us, out run us. Take
away our cameras, malfunction them etc. Yet some of these
"scientist" demand proof before investigating. A little
backwards I think.

Like their black holes, ufologist have evidence and data that
indicate the eth. They deduce an explaination through process of
elimination. For some reason, many a scientist, don't apply this
method when it comes to ufos etc. I recall Sagan saying, *I'm
aware of how much I want et visitation to be true, therefore I
increase my skepticism*. Why not increase objectivity? He made
himself biased. I recall Hynek once said "Scientist don't always
act scientifically" Sad, but seemingly true. I agree with
somthing I read in A Gary Zukav book. It implied that a lot of
people who are called scientist, are more accurately
technicians. I think these seti scientist, fit that mold. That
isn't to say one can't be both.

For the record, I'm glad we are listening for signals. I won't
attack their field of inquiry like they do ufology. To do so,
would only hamper their progress, like they do ours. I am a
critic of their thinking however. They demand proof before
investigating, then ridicule those who have what they consider
none. Not realizing one of the best way to prove somthing, is to
take seriously, not ridicule, and do objective investigations.

Seti scientist (as well as other scientist) comment about how
the eth can't be so, even though many haven't even done research
or investigation into the ufo related subjects. It's arrogant.
They assume they would know how an *advance* society would do
inter-stellar, travel. Since they can't figure it out, no one
has. Makes as much sense for someone to tell a baseball player
he can't hit home runs, because they can't explain the physics
of hitting a homerun. Add to that asking someone who isn't a
physicist, or a sports fan.

We need the scientific community to not ridicule this subject.
How do they like it when someone ridicules theirs? It hurts the
availability of data and evidence. People are less likely to
come forward because of the riducule factor. Part of the reason
they don't have the proof they want, is their own making. They
make it harder to get the proof they want others to seek, then
ridicule, for not having it.








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   Mar > Mar 28

                Re: Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices? -

From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser.nul>
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 13:06:42 -0700
Fwd Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 15:23:01 -0500
Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices? -


>From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 07:13:46 -0800
>Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices?

>>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 00:10:52 -0500
>>Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices?

>>>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 11:09:50 -0400
>>>Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices?

>>>>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
>>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>>Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 23:37:49 -0500
>>>>Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices?

><snip>

>What really bugs me about the Flare theory is: March 13, 1997
>was basically at the beginning of fire season in the Southwest.
>I was being called up early - then ended up having health
>problems,and ttopped flying for good later on.

>However, the dropping of flares at altitude over a very dry
>brushy, desert even at 15,000 or so feet, is asking to get a
>shovel to the right temple by Smokey Bear.

Fires don't spread too well in a desert. They generally put
themselves out.

>My problem: the Idea of a flare drop in general seems to be
>illogical, unless it was to divert attention from what really
>happened that night.

I have advanced this hypothesis myself in the past. I accept
that they were flares, but why on this night of all nights? And
why in an area so visible to a huge portion of the West Valley,
when such has not occurred before or since, that I can recall.
And why the delay in 'fessing up to it? "Oh, _that_ flare drop!
Oh, yeah, that was us" (months after the fact). And why does it
seem like there is a "spoiler episode" to every major UFO event?
You show me Area 51, I'll show you Bob Lazar. You show me
Bentwaters, I'll show you Larry Warren. You show me Roswell,
I'll show you Glen Dennis (and a host of others). You show me
Gulf Breeze, I'll show you...well, you-know-who...

Just a hypothesis, mind you...

>Also, weren't the Prescott and Sedona
>areas involved too? No bombing range there.

This was related to the 8:30 sightings, which may have been the
"signal" where the flares were the purposeful "noise."

Disclaimer: All this happened during my "sabbatical" from
Ufology, during which time I read very little on the subject, so
I don't claim a thorough knowledge of the Phoenix Lights
Incident.


==JJS==








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   Mar > Mar 28

                 "Fridge Magnet Is Alien Artefact" Episode 2

From: Chris Parr <cparr.nul>
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 20:47:41 -0000
Fwd Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 15:28:10 -0500
Subject: "Fridge Magnet Is Alien Artefact" Episode 2


>From: Chris Parr <cparr.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 16:27:13 -0000
>Subject: Ufologist "Fridge Magnet Is Alien Artefact"

>Award winning Ufologist believes fridge magnet is Alien Artefact

>UFO Magazine UK UFO investigator of the Year Sharon Larkin has
>groundbreaking testimony relating to an "Alien artefact" that
>has apparently made the treacherous journey around the Universe
>and embedded itself onto the paintwork of her cousins car.

>http://www.newsandstar.co.uk/news/viewarticle.asp?c=190&id=83410



"Fridge Magnet is Alien Artefact" Episode 2

http://www.newsandstar.co.uk/news/viewarticle.asp?c=190&id=84580


X-FILES Report 28841 "Alien Artefact" -- March 2004
F.B.I / REF / RH46 /  Agent Dana Scully

The claims of UK Ufologist Sharon Larkin have provided a
Terrestrial explanation. The object in question found to be a
magnetic novelty item originating from Kaysar & Kaysar Desktop
Products of Michigan U.S.A.

My colleague Agent Mulder confirmed that the UK case was "silly
in origin and content" and potentially damaging to the future of
serious and credible Paranormal Research/Studies. He added that
he had never laughed so much since the time he attended a Bufora
Council Meeting during the fall of 1994.

Director Skinner gave reassurances that future X-FILES cases
would be given the strictest scrutiny in order to filter out the
"Crank Element". This latest incident has jeopardised the very
existence of the X-Files and the Department is now under review.
In relation to this, Det Skinner admitted " I am placed in a
tight corner over this, even Tooms couldn't get out of it"

Agent Mulder's Oxford University connections found no evidence
to confirm that the fragments of the alleged Alien Artefact were
actually sent to Cambridge University for analysis.

I conclude that X-FILE 28841 "Alien Artefact" is Closed








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   Mar > Mar 28

                Re: Radio Search For ET Draws A Blank - White

From: Eleanor White <eleanor.nul>
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 17:04:32 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 15:29:16 -0500
Subject: Re: Radio Search For ET Draws A Blank - White


>From: Joe McGonagle <joe.mcgonagle.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 12:39:48 -0000
>Subject: Radio Search For ET Draws A Blank

>Radio search for ET draws a blank

I wonder if it would pay for psychics to regularly attempt to
scan for signs of life. Psychic signals seem much more promising
than conventional electromagnetic. An experiment where, say,
half a dozen psychics, particularly those trained in remote
viewing and who have demonstrated track records, might make one
serious attempt per week for a year, keeping their impressions
in confidential logs until the end of a year.

They might try for impressions of locations of promising
segments of the celestial sphere.

These logs could be tallied and compared at the end of the year,
and any promising segments referenced by two or more of the
psychics might then be scrutinzed more closely by radio
telescopes.

Congruencies other than location in the sky might suggest
further experiments.


Eleanor White








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              Canada's V-2 Launch Site - Future Attraction For

From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul>
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 18:08:05 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
Fwd Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 15:30:25 -0500
Subject: Canada's V-2 Launch Site - Future Attraction For



Hi Everyone!

This Wednesday evening I got a chance to meet and speak with
Captain Terry Wong, a CF-18 pilot and one of six astronaut
finalists who are preparing to be launched into space from
Sarnia, Ontario, Canada (about an hour's drive north of Detroit,
Michigan) aboard a privately built V-2 rocket! Even the powerful
V-2 engine that generates over 50,000 pounds of thrust was built
to the exact specifications from the original plans found at
archives in Germany.

The manned V-2 space flight which the Germans had planned for
1945 mentioned in astronaut Gordon Cooper's book will finally
happen here in Canada six decades later. Wong not only confirmed
what Cooper wrote about this V-2 manned flight but he also told
me of British plans to send an astronaut of their own into space
with a captured V-2 rocket after the end of WWII.

Although Cooper is already on record about his personal UFO
sightings and views, if the other sources mentioned in his book
are also accurate about UFOs and UFO technology by us, then
aerospace history, especially German achievements leading up to
and including WWII, will need to be rewritten in light of these
revelations.

Since the Canadian built V-2 rocket (known as the Canadian
Arrow) is based on proven rocket technology (thousands of these
large rockets were built and successfully launched by the
Germans in the 1940s), their long term goal is to train private
astronauts at the expanded space center in London, Ontario
(about a two hour drive west of Toronto) and to have them
achieve their dreams of going into space for only a few thousand
dollars.

There are already plans in the works for a ballistic passenger
glider or shuttle which will land at airports anywhere in the
world. The most distant destinations will take no longer than an
hour to get there - faster than the Concorde but not much more
expensive. A heavy lift launch vehicle built from clustered V-2
rockets could be used to build a space hotel in orbit or to send
space tourists on a voyage around the Moon and back.


Nick Balaskas








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              Re: The Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices -

From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser.nul>
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 16:26:02 -0700
Fwd Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 15:31:40 -0500
Subject: Re: The Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices -


>From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 07:31:05 -0800
>Subject: Re: The Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices

>>From: Mike Fortson <satmike.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 10:24:22 -0700
>>Subject: Phoenix Lights

>>About the altitude of the A10, LUU2 flare drop.

>You are right Mike. Little attention has been paid to your
>sighting, Tim Ley's sighting, and Max's sighting of the big
>triangle and few realize that you describe a V-shape and that
>others saw a large Triangle-shape. That makes two large objects,
>not one.

Wait a second... I don't want to detract from what I feel (for
the moment) are genuine sightings, but how do we know he simply
could not see the "trailing edge" of the triangle? A lot of
misperception occurs at night. I think it's perfectly feasible
that the two descriptions could be of the same object, viewed
from different angles and under different conditions.

This is an example of how people jump to conclusions, and why we
get such short shrift in the scientific community.


==JJS==








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   Mar > Mar 28

               Re: Methane Find On Mars May Be Sign Of Life -

From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul>
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 19:20:33 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
Fwd Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 15:32:43 -0500
Subject: Re: Methane Find On Mars May Be Sign Of Life -


>From: Dan Bright <ufo.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 15:22:53 -0000
>Subject: Methane Find On Mars May Be Sign Of Life

>Source: The Independent

>http://news.independent.co.uk/world/science_medical/story.jsp?story=505454

>Methane find on Mars may be sign of life

>By Steve Connor, Science Editor
>27 March 2004

>A strong signal of life on Mars has been detected by scientists
>at the US National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA)
>and the European Space Agency.

>Each group has independently discovered tantalising evidence of
>methane in the Martian atmosphere. Methane, a waste product of
>living organisms on Earth, could also be a by-product of alien
>microbes living under the surface of the Red Planet.

>The detection of methane has been the holy grail of scientists
>studying the Martian atmosphere, as its presence could provide
>unequivocal proof that there is life beyond Earth.

>Neither NASA nor the European Space Agency (ESA) has publicly
>announced the findings, but specialists who have seen the data
>believe the discovery is genuine - although they are unsure what
>it means in terms of confirming the presence of life.

Hi Everyone!

If this NASA/ESA discovery is genuine, it would be more exciting
than that picture of a UFO orbiting Mars since it would be solid
scientific evidence of actual Martians!

It is currently thought that the UV light levels on the surface
of Mars are so high that exposed living organisms could not
survive and what little non-biologically methane gas that exists
would have long since been broken down to simpler gases by the
light on Mars. This discovery of methane suggests there must be
something living on Mars that is continuously producing methane.
There is a team of Mars scientists at the University of Toronto
have have designed an experiment to detect very small traces of
methane in the Martian atmosphere, amounts equivalent to that
produced by a just a couple of "farting cows" anywhere on the
planet. We may have already detected them!

Another interesting thing about methane is that it is a better
"green-house" gas than carbon dioxide. If there is some biomass
on Mars now, we can expect it to increase with the very slowly
rising temperatures. The increase in temperatures will produce
more liquid water on the surface which in turn will help to
increase the total methane producing biomass.

We could very well be seeing the start of the warming and
natural terraforming of Mars that will eventually create a
habitable planet for human colonization!


Nick Balaskas








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                  1947 At Roswell, Corona And Other Places

From: Loren Coleman <lcoleman.nul>
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 22:19:40 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 15:37:06 -0500
Subject: 1947 At Roswell, Corona And Other Places


Theo Paijmans writes to a Fortean List (and has given me
permission to forward his remark and my reply to UFO folks):


"Roswell? Other than a crash of a Mogul balloon and Goddard's
early rocket experiments, I can't seem to recall any remarkable
occurrence that would merit the place being 'notorious for the
paranormal'."


Before I get into the heart of this, here's an interesting
series of photos showing the rural nature of the alleged crash
site:

http://www.alienresistance.org/roswellufocrashsitephotos.htm

Without becoming lost in the whole "crashed saucer" debate, I
think it is worth pointing out that since this discussion is
about Fortean locations, to be specific, more mystery seems to
surround what happened at Corona, New Mexico, some 45 miles
north of Roswell. I really don't have any idea what the
prevailing Ufological feeling is about the importance of Corona
versus Roswell. But the "site" of more significance in the
investigations of the 1947 crash, it seems the crash researchers
talk about "the unidentified craft" skipping on the ground at
Roswell and ending up at Corona, true?

Being more interested in "the locations," what I do see is that
while Corona is in Lincoln County (!), Roswell is actually in
Chaves County. From east to west are the counties of Chaves,
then Lincoln, and finally Socorro. Of course, Socorro County is
a "hot" location - for more than 1947 UFO reasons. The White
Sands Missile Range covers the SW corner of Lincoln County, SE
corner of Soccoro County, and others, such as the eastern edge
of Otero County, home of Alamogordo, NM. Alamogordo is most
often associated as being "near" the Trinity Site, the location
of the first atomic bomb explosion, but it is 85 miles from
Alamogordo to the Trinity Site and the nearby McDonald ranch
house.

See:

http://www.alamogordo.com/Old/trinity.html

Of note to certain Forteans is these locations being so near 33
degrees latitude. Even a mainstream online place like CNN
Interactive enjoys pointing out that, near Soccoro:

"It was here - 33 degrees, 40 minutes, 31 seconds north
latitude, 106 degrees, 28 minutes, 29 seconds west longitude -
 where the world changed on July 16, 1945, at 5:29 a.m. Mountain
War Time." See:

http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/cold.war/experience/the.bomb/route/03.trinity/

That JFK would be killed near the Trinity River, on the way to
the Triple Overpass, at the old Masonic Temple location known as
Dealey Plaza (on a ley-line, so to speak), ten miles north of 33
degrees north latitude is chilling to some. Merely an intriguing
coincidence to others.

And some people even think that JFK was killed from the Grassy
Knoll. Okay, hold on. I just had one of those Fortean moments. I
was concurrently examining the "Timeline of the BTK killings":

http://ap.tbo.com/ap/breaking/MGACPZE4CSD.html

to forward to associates interested in such matters. And what
did I notice? That the first victims were members of the Otero
family. I don't recall running across the name "Otero" before
today, only having see it earlier this evening as the county in
which Alamogordo is located. Therefore, taking the next step, I
wanted to see what "Otero" means, via the handy AltaVista Babel
Translation tool. Well, alright, the word Otero = Knoll.

Just another evening of Fortean coincidences, I guess. ;-}

Thanks to Theo for sending me on this little sidetrip.

Loren
http://www.lorencoleman.com








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               Cincinnati UFO Reported To Wright Patterson AFB

From: Kenny Young <ufo.nul>
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 23:13:20 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 15:40:19 -0500
Subject: Cincinnati UFO Reported To Wright Patterson AFB


Subject: UFO Sighting Reported To WPAFB
Location: Fairfield, Ohio (Butler County)
Date: Saturday, March 27 - 8:50 p.m.

Summary

On Saturday evening, March 27 at 8:50 p.m., a man in Fairfield,
Ohio (Butler County) spotted an unidentified flying object while
sitting outdoors in his backyard.

From his vantage point near Mack Road and Crestview in
Fairfield, and looking west to southwest toward Colerain, Mr.
Chris Medecke (name used with permission) observed an unusual
object the size of a dime at arms length. The strange object,
looking like one solid round pulsating and flashing light, was
first noticed low, as if in a treeline which the witness first
said looked like it was 'coming at him' for a duration and then
it moved off traveling north, but again changed direction and
then started moving straight up and then straight down.
Sometimes jerky and abrupt, these 'up and down' maneuvers
continued for about 15 to 20 minutes.

Medecke said that the light on the object was white with a tint
of red, giving it an almost orange look. He stressed that only
one light could be seen, no additional flashing or warning
lights were apparent.

The witness, whose vantage point is more or less on a hill,
observed the situation for over 15 minutes and said repeatedly
that he could not identify the object. He called for his  wife
(36-years old and two sons (13 and 12-years old) to witness the
situation as well.

The object remained low and crested the treeline, but not
obscured by trees the entire duration of the sighting. Medecke
estimated the object was within one mile of his vantage point
and stressed that he heard no airplane sound. The object moved
slow and stayed low.

He said the motion of the object was like nothing he had ever
seen before. It would shift upward drastically and then jolt
back down. He characterized this motion as that of a 'fishing
bobber' on the water.

Menecke said the the sighting could have happened in the
vicinity of Route 4 through Fairfield, a well traveled and
populated quarter.

He said the object then departed to the north and was gradually
out of sight.

At that point, Medecke picked up his telephone and called
directory assistance (411) asking to be put in touch with Wright
Patterson Air Force Base. The call was connected and he spoke
with the base operator, a female receptionist, who advised him
that there was nobody present at the airbase to take his call
about a UFO sighting. She then referred him to the Cincinnati
UFO Hotline (513-588-4548).

Medecke called the hotline and left a message, and around 9:50
p.m. Medecke says that a second UFO was sighted. This object,
according to Medecke, also was first seen to originate from the
same general direction (over Colerain). This object, he said,
was identical in appearance and conduct.

"This second UFO - or whatever it was - had the same type of
performance and maneuvers, moving at slow speed," he said.

Mr. Chris Medecke said the second object was visible for about
10 minutes and departed with some noticeable elevation or climb
toward the south.

I talked to Mr. Medecke after getting his recorded sighting
report from the hotline after 10:00 p.m. Medecke, 36-years old,
is currently employed as a truck driver and has 12-years
experience as an aerospace machinist. He says he is familiar
with jet fighters and easily recognizes jets on approach
patterns to the Greater Cincinnati Airport. Further, he is aware
of the Hamilton County Police Helicopter facility on Hamilton
Avenue (off of I-275 past the Forest Fair Mall exit) and he said
this was not the police chopper.

"Unmistakable, it was not the police chopper," he said. "I would
have heard it. I've never seen anything like this before."

Mr. Medecke said that he also lives close to Mercy South
Hospital and is familiar with the Air Care Chopper that
frequently lands there.

"The way this thing was going up and down, no way it could have
been anything we're familiar with," he said.

Weather conditions at the time are crystal clear skies with
half-moon, temperatures in the upper 50s.

Special note: This is not the first case in which a witness has
used the term 'fishing bobber' to describe the ballistic conduct
of a UFO. In the spring of 2001, a Springboro, Ohio witness used
that exact term to describe an flaming object seen in the
vicinity of Interstate 75.

Filed,
March 27, 2004 - 11:15 P.M.

Kenny Young
--
UFO Research
http://home.fuse.net/ufo
CINCINNATI UFO HOTLINE - 513-588-4548






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   Mar > Mar 28

              Re: The Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices -

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 23:57:22 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 15:51:22 -0500
Subject: Re: The Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices -


>From: Stuart Miller <stuart.miller4.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 16:55:19 -0000
>Subject: The Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices

>The following is a short extract from an interview conducted
>Phoenix Lights, for UFO Review, a new on-line e-zine to be
>launched soon. The full interview will appear in the first
>edition, TBA.

>Interview date: 24th. March 04.

>Time: 11:00 pm GMT.

>SM is Stuart Miller

>LK is Doctor Lynne Kitei.


>SM: What is your reaction these days, now, when you still hear
>the word "flares" mentioned in connection with the lights?

>LK: Oh boy, that does get my ire. First of all, they weren't
>flares! That I know. It's funny you should mention that because
>last night, the three hour show (Coast To Coast 3/24/04) went so
>well and we were getting such wonderful callers, from all over
>the United States. It was just really amazing that all these >
>people were up in the middle of the night listening to this and
>it was really comforting. I ve had so much positive
>reinforcement. The last caller though, this guy says, I know you
>were looking south so it must have been flares on the Barry
>Goldwater range.

>Well, besides the fact that if you just look at the data,
>there's no way these were flares because they don't act like
>flares. They defy physics, as we know it, as I've been told by
>numerous optical specialists. Flares cannot stay in a straight
>line, they cannot form formations, for sure, they're very
>erratic, they're white not amber. They have giant slope trails
>and they reflect. That's what they're used for; to reflect light
>on air.

As I have pointed out here recently and to Dr. Lynne back in
1998, when I was analyzing her photos and the videos from March
13, the lights do not violate 'flare physics', they drop
downward, and drift with the general eastward wind. But more
importantly, the triangular using her video and those of Kyzysten
and Rairdon, shows that the 10 PM video lights were far south of
Phoenix.

>This didn't come up until a month after the USA Today article,
>when I know the media was just badgering, as we were, for an
>explanation and so they had to come up with something. The only
>real hard data that they had were the four videos that night of
>us looking south, so whoever thought it up was certainly very
>bright and could make a case because the video itself does not
>do it justice. It does not do it justice at all because they re
>white in the video; they flicker in the video which they do not
>do in real life. They appear smaller as well.

Who could tell, "in real life" if they flickered by the small
amount noted in the video - there is noticeable flickering
sometimes when the lights go out in Rairdon's video and not so
in Krzysten's when they may be cut off by falling behind the
mountain ridge.

>People that want to feed into that explanation, do. Either
>they're fearful of the real explanation or they just can't deal
>with thinking about it and it's just easier for them to slip
>into a logical explanation.

Strange she should say this. In the months that I spent looking
at her video and photo data I made it clear that the data
pointed toward distant lights at 10 PM on March 13. However, I
accept, and even helped her to prove, that the lights she
photographed close to her house, in 1995, are unexplainable.

>What's funny to me is that if you
>look at the data, there's just no way. It's comical now when
>somebody brings it up and some people are very hard set on it, I
>have to tell you. Like this guy on the radio programme last
>night. I also received an e-mail to that affect from a guy
>that's with the Snowbirds somewhere. These are the people that
>really don't look at the data. They hear an explanation; they
>jump on it and say, That's fine.

>Well what about the mile long triangular craft that everybody
>saw. What about that phenomena? To me it's just as important if
>not more so because thousands of people saw that as well, or
>lights attached to something, which is very similar to what I
>photographed, obviously.

Th 8:30 PM object was seen by many people, passing through the
skies north of Phoenix, and traveling southward over the city.
This was long before the 10 PM lights were videotaped. This
triangle is the real UFO case of March 13.

>A number of people saw these orbs detach from the main object
>and go out into the environment, which maybe was what happened
>in 95 to my husband and I, and then re-dock. That we didn't find
>out about until over a year, in December, after the mass
>sighting when I went back to the negatives and tried to find the
>one with four lights, which I realised was actually from 95. It
>shows quite clearly that when the closed orbs were disappearing,
>and when there were three orbs there originally, one on top and
>two underneath, there were six lights in the background. Two of
>them disappeared as the top orb disappeared so that we saw four
>in the background when two were there. Then when there's only
>one orb, there's two in the background. So the same formation in
>the same location, disappearing in the background when we re
>seeing the closed orbs as well. It' s a little too coincidental.

Her 1995 photos are indeed bizarre for a particular reason I
discovered. However, I am not at liberty to describe why.









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              Re: The Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices -

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 00:00:39 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 15:52:35 -0500
Subject: Re: The Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices -


>From: Mike Fortson <satmike.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 10:24:22 -0700
>Subject: Phoenix Lights

>About the altitude of the A10, LUU2 flare drop.

>What I feel some fail to think about is if the flares were
>dropped at 12,000 altitude, what would the ignition altitude be?
>The flares don't light up as soon as they drop. SOP procedure
>would be a 6,000 foot drop, 3,000 ignition, and 500 extinguish.
>So even if the flares were to be dropped at 16,000 - as I think
>Dr Maccabee stated - the ignition altitude would be much, much
l>ower. And only those on mountainside homes viewed these lights
>anyway.

I think you can adjust the distance they fall before they
ignite. The shortest distance, if I understand the data sheet,
is about 250 ft.

>As an 8:30 p.m. MST., witness to the massive V-shaped craft, I
>must congratulate the media and the military for a very
>successful diversion. Nearly all the attention of the profoundly
>wonderful night on March 13, 1997, has been on those 5-10pm
>videos.

Yup. You saw the real one.








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                Re: Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices? -

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 00:07:36 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 15:54:27 -0500
Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices? -


>From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 07:00:13 -0600
>Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices?

>>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
>>Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 14:54:00 -0500
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices?

<snip>

>Before we allow ourselves to allow a debunking of flares to
>discredit the whole Phoenix affair, there was more than enough,
>similar, stuff going on... recorded before and after the 'flare'
i>ncident... and Errol just last week hosted a very credible
>woman - Dr. Lynne D. Kitei - author and witness of 'The Phoenix
>Lights' (who we've been very quiet about) who puts the point to
>that - eh?

>By all means lets wash the details and see what's colorfast...
>but I think it entirely reasonable that flares were released at
t>hat altitude (which is otherwise ludicrous... I don't know the
>airway structure in that area, but a spent flare, which are kind
>of designed to 'hang' for obvious reasons, and burned out would
>be a hazard to pelicans, private, and commercial aircraft...)
>released at that altitude to confuse the issue... and to give
>someone like Kal K. Korff a reason to discredit the whole
>apparent bleedin' thing... using the specific to fallaciously
>defuse the aggregate.

>We all need to remember that something very ~real~ occurred in
>and around that time... whatever the disposition of 'flares'.

My opinion, after spending hundreds(?) of hours analyzing the
videos of Lynne, and others, and also her photos of 1995 plus to
some extent the 8:30 PM sightings, I conclude that the 10 PM
videos show flares, and 8:30 PM 'sighting (March 13) was a 'real
UFO' - a triangle - and the Feb. 1995 photos of Lynne's show
unexplained "UFO" lights.








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                Re: Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices? -

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 00:12:56 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 15:55:57 -0500
Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices? -


>From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 07:27:55 -0800
>Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices?


>>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
>>Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 14:54:00 -0500>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices?

>>>>According to National Air Guard spokespeople in the summer of
>>>>1997, the flares were released at an unusually high altitude.
>>>>Capt. Eileen Benz, spokesperson for the Arizona National Guard,
>>>>and the person who discovered that flares had been dropped that
>>>evening by the Maryland National Guard (Snowbirds), flares were
>>>dropped at an altitude of 15,000 ft. Capt. Drew Sullins,
>>>>spokesman for the MD Nat. Guard. said a squad of A-10 using the
>>>>Bary Goldwater training range had "dumped several flares" at
>>>>high altitude.

>>>Bruce, you fail to mention that at that altitude and distance,
>>>these so-called perfectly round amber "flares" would be 1,500
>>>feet in diameter.

>>I don't know what you mean by this. The flares are fixed in size
>>by the metal tubes housing the fuel that is burned. Are you
>>trying to say thatthe flares change their size with altitude?

>I am saying that based on the angular displacement of the light
>and its distance from my viewing point, and trig calculations
>indicate it to be over 1,500 feet in diameter. Pretty large
>flares.

The size of the image of a bright light which is too small to
resolve at some distance (e.g., a bright light bulb a few inches
in diameter photographed at several miles...  or a bright star)
is a function of its brightness.

The image size grows with brightness for various optical
reasons. Astronomers use this fact to estimate star magnitude
from te size of images on photographic plates (at least they
used to).  Hence one cannot simply project the size of the image
of a distant light out to the distance of the light and thereby
estimate the size of the light.

In other words, your calculation of flare size from image size
is incorrect. The mst it can give is an upper bound to the size
of the light source (it could be any size smaller than the upper
bound).








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               Re: DIA Dances Around The FOIA Maypole - Bryant

From: Larry W. Bryant <overtci.nul>
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 01:11:21 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 16:00:25 -0500
Subject: Re: DIA Dances Around The FOIA Maypole - Bryant


>From: Kelly Freeman <Khfflsciufo.nul<
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 20:17:00 EST
>Subject: Re: DIA Dances Around The FOIA Maypole

>>From: Larry W. Bryant <overtci.nul>
>>To: UFO Updates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 15:32:11 -0500
>>Subject: DIA Dances Around The FOIA Maypole

><snip>

>>If we citizens no longer can trust such agencies as the DIA,
>>CIA, NSA, and FBI to faithfully discharge their obligation to
>>comply with both the spirit and the letter of open-access law,
>>have we already lost the battle to preserve, protect, and expand
>>our democratic ideals?

>Maybe we should get mad as hell... and tell them we are not
>going to take it anymore. My own feeling is that the UFO
>research community needs to start from scratch and put together
>a well organized effort to counter such antics by these
>agencies. But they need to be sustainable endeavors, and not
>suffer the fate like that of Operation Right To Know or The
>Disclosure Project.

>We may lose the battle... but we have to win the war. :)

Thank You, Mr. Freeman, for these supportive remarks. Alas, I
don't have the answer to this task; all I have is about eight
more years of productive life (according to DeathClock.com), and
a legacy of asking questions, questioning authority, and
exposing the results.









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                 CIA Stonewalls Release of Declassification

From: Larry W. Bryant <overtci.nul>
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 01:39:38 -0500 (EST)
Fwd Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 16:03:21 -0500
Subject: CIA Stonewalls Release of Declassification



From: Michael Ravnitzky <mikerav.nul>
Date: Sat, March 27, 2004 9:50 am
To: FOI-L.nul
Subject: CIA Stonewalls Release of Declassification Committee Records

CIA BLOCKS RELEASE OF DECLASSIFICATION COMMITTEE RECORDS FOR 7 YEARS

by Michael Ravnitzky , mikerav.nul


2517 Holman Avenue
Silver Spring, MD  20910
301-585-1027

March 27, 2004

Central Intelligence Agency
Attn: Robert T. Herman
Information and Privacy Coordinator
Central Intelligence Agency
Washington, DC  20505

Reference:  F-1997-00988, my Freedom of Information request
dated April 8, 1997 for a copy of meeting minutes and agendas
from January 1, 1995 to the present, from the External Referral
Working Group, ERWG, chaired through CIA Records
Declassification, which coordinates the Presidential Libraries
in their Systematic Declassification projects.

Dear Mr. Herman:

I was very disappointed to receive your letter dated March 11,
2004 in which you threatened to cancel my FOIA request if I did
not agree to some open-ended blanket fee payment for the request
I submitted 7 years ago.

In 1997, this comprised a rather recent small set of documents.

I understand that this is the agency1s new method of closing out
requests that have been pending for many years, and it is wrong.
 Instead of responding to legitimate records in a considered
manner, instead your agency appears to use any tact to deflect
requests and any excuse to cancel decade-old requests, holding
requesters to artificial deadlines while ignoring those same
deadlines, relying on absurd procedural methods to deny
requests, lobbying for rules changes while intentionally
delaying requests until the favorable rules have been
established, and the like.

Your agency spends massive resources fighting the obligation to
even search for and review records rather than reviewing those
records, leading to situations where the agency will not even
review 55 year old records for possible release.

Your agency refuses to comply with the established
declassification rules established in the Executive Order on
National Security Information and apparently does not cooperate
with ISOO and ISCAP on declassification review procedures.

Your agency refuses to release a Freedom of Information Act case
log that includes case numbers.

When someone gets tired of waiting 7 years for a response and
brings the matter to judicial review, your agency counsel has
the nerve to argue, unethically, that there is a six year
statute of limitations and the action is barred by time.  What a
bunch of hypocrites you are!

In my rather straightforward request, so many years ago, I
agreed to pay up to $30 in fees.  Since 1997, I have worked for
two different news organizations and these materials would have
been available to me in the news media fee category, but I am no
longer working as a journalist.

Since you state after seven years of waiting that you will
charge more than $30 to process the request, in excess of $200 -
- and who knows how much more -- for fees to which I have not
agreed, you are effectively strong-arming me into withdrawing my
Freedom of Information request.

Therefore, I hereby withdraw my request.  Perhaps someone in a
newsgathering capacity will be inspired to request these
documents before
you shred them.

Sincerely,


Michael Ravnitzky








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   Mar > Mar 28

              Re: The Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices -

From: Kelly Freeman <Khfflsciufo.nul>
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 05:38:02 EST
Fwd Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 16:04:46 -0500
Subject: Re: The Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices -


>From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22.nul>
>To: UFO Updates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sat. 27 Mar 2004 07:31:05 -0800
>Subject: Re: The Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices

>>From: Mike Fortson <satmike.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 10:24:22 -0700
>>Subject: Phoenix Lights

<snip>

>>As an 8:30 p.m. MST., witness to the massive V-shaped craft, I
>>must congratulate the media and the military for a very
>>successful diversion. Nearly all the attention of the profoundly
>>wonderful night on March 13, 1997, has been on those 5-10 p.m.
>>videos.

<snip>

>You are right Mike. Little attention has been paid to your
>sighting, Tim Ley's sighting, and Max's sighting of the big
>triangle and few realize that you describe a V-shape and that
>others saw a large Triangle-shape. That makes two large objects,
>not one.

Bill, Mike and List,

May I be so bold as to suggest that the Phoenix sightings of the
V-shape objects were in fact modern versions of a possible
earlier prototype that was seen in Albuquerque, N.M. on 25 of
August 1951. It was described as a flying wing type aircraft,
"...and there was no sound that could be attributed to the
object. The color of the object was not apparent due to the
twilight, but dark chordwise stripes were noticed under the
wings. Six to eight pairs of soft flowing lights were noticed on
the trailing edge of the wing." Source: Status Report No.2,
Project Grudge, December 11, 1951. It was not known to be a
known aircraft at the time, and there was believed to be a
similar sighthing in Lubbock, Texas.

Now I know that the 1951 sightings don't match exactly with what
was seen in Phoenix, but with 40 or so years of "modernization"
couldn't the Phoenix objects have been the more advanced
versions? I would put money on the possibility that the objects
seen in 1951 and in Phoenix were in fact terrestrial versions of
some secret development program, and thus, would give reason for
the military to drop flares to distract the media and the rest
of us from the real "UFO", if in fact, flares were used at all.

Just a theory that I thought I would share with everybody.


Kelly F.








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              Re: The Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices -

From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22.nul>
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 12:26:27 -0800
Fwd Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 16:07:41 -0500
Subject: Re: The Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices -


>From: Jim Kelly <Azredant.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 13:24:12 EST
>Subject: Re: The Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices

>>From: Stuart Miller <stuart.miller4.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 16:55:19 -0000
>>Subject: Re: The Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices

<snip>

>You don't think that flare drops are not common worldwide? They
>happen on an almost daily occurrence. Just check out Peter
>Davenport's website.

>Now I will be the first to admit that not all of these sightings
>are not flares. Yet, how do you distinguish military flare
>lights or a UFO sighting?

Jim, you obviously don't pay attention to detail or credit
eyewitness testimony or even pay attention to what the spokesman
for the Maryland ANG stated. This is all useless argument and
people will just believe what they want to believe - as you do
about these events.


Bill H.








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                  Re: European Voice UFO Article - Maccabee

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 15:33:11 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 16:09:03 -0500
Subject: Re: European Voice UFO Article - Maccabee


>From: Nick Pope <nick.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 14:59:21 -0000
>Subject: European Voice UFO Article


>List,

>James Drew, Sub Editor of European Voice, has kindly given his
>consent to my posting the text of his article from the 18-24 March
>edition of the newspaper.

-----

>Scepticism set to scupper any chance of Union-led UFO research

>By James Drew

>Are we alone in the universe? If not, are we being visited by
>our intergalactic neighbours? Such questions, normally pondered
>following an excellent supper, when port and cigars are handed
>out and thoughts turn to philosophical matters, have once again
>appeared on the European Parliament's radar screen.


Thanks for posting.

The EHNC syndrome wins again!!!

(ENHC - Emperor Has No Clothes)








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   Mar > Mar 28

               Re: Methane Find On Mars May Be Sign Of Life -

From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 16:34:28 -0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 16:11:55 -0500
Subject: Re: Methane Find On Mars May Be Sign Of Life -


>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 18:05:44 +0000
>Subject: Re: Methane Find On Mars May Be Sign Of Life

>>From: Dan Bright <ufo.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 15:22:53 -0000
>>Subject: Methane Find On Mars May Be Sign Of Life

>>Source: The Independent

>>http://tinyurl.com/2krjq

>>Methane find on Mars may be sign of life

>>By Steve Connor, Science Editor 27 March 2004

>>A strong signal of life on Mars has been detected by scientists at
>>the US National Aeronautics and Space Admin- istration (Nasa) and
>>the European Space Agency.

>>Each group has independently discovered tantalising evidence of
>>methane in the Martian atmosphere. Methane, a waste product of
>>living organisms on Earth, could also be a by-product of alien
>>microbes living under the surface of the Red Planet.

><snip>

>Well, that explains the Martian "UFO." Swamp gas!


That and Earth being mistaken by the Martian witnesses for a
UFO, makes two plausible explanations for UFO sightings on Mars.
Doing the debunker's homework for them, in advance.


Don








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                        Re: Phoenix Lights - Speiser

From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser.nul>
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 16:30:22 -0700
Fwd Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 16:22:59 -0500
Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights - Speiser


>From: Jim Kelly <Azredant.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 12:40:49 EST
>Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights

>>From: Mike Fortson <satmike.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 10:24:22 -0700
>>Subject: Phoenix Lights

>>About the altitude of the A10, LUU2 flare drop.

>>What I feel some fail to think about is if the flares were
>>dropped at 12,000 altitude, what would the ignition altitude be?
>>The flares don't light up as soon as they drop. SOP procedure
>>would be a 6,000 foot drop, 3,000 ignition, and 500 extinguish.
>>So even if the flares were to be dropped at 16,000 - as I think
>>Dr Maccabee stated - the ignition altitude would be much, much
>>lower. And only those on mountainside homes viewed these lights
>>anyway.

>>As an 8:30 p.m. MST., witness to the massive V-shaped craft, I
>>must congratulate the media and the military for a very
>>successful diversion. Nearly all the attention of the profoundly
>>wonderful night on March 13, 1997, has been on those 5-10pm
>>videos.

>It all depends on who you talk to about this. I heard that the
>flares were dropped between 17,000 and 20,000 feet. Can anyone
>confirm this? Bruce? Tom?

>As for the diversion theory, why would the military wait 90
>minutes after the giant triangular craft was buzzing around
>Phoenix to come up with using the Maryland National Guard as a
>diversion? It would have made more sense to send them up right
>after the 8:30 event then waiting until 10:00 PM. Remember, the
>MNG was already here because they had re-fueled in Phoenix that
>morning.

Maybe it took a while to wake up some suit in Washington for
orders to stage a diversion? Perfectly feasible, given that we
are dealing with the military. Hell, it took 40 minutes for us
to scramble planes on 9/11!

I know how you feel about this case, Jim, and you and I have
talked, but I do still have nagging doubts about how long it
took for the MNG to take responsibility for the flare drop.
_That_ length of delay to me is what's less than credible.


==JJS==








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   Mar > Mar 28

                               J. Allen Hynek?

From: Stephen G. Bassett <SGBList2.nul>
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 16:18:33 EST
Fwd Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 16:36:42 -0500
Subject: J. Allen Hynek?


Would someone on the List have contact information for or in be
in a position to act as an intermediary to the family of Dr. J.
Allen Hynek?

If so, please contact me privately. Thank you.


Steve Bassett
ParadigmRG.nul








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             Re: Re: The Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices

From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 17:34:36 -0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 16:41:03 -0500
Subject: Re: Re: The Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices


>From: Kelly Freeman <Khfflsciufo.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul Subject: Re: The
>Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 05:38:02 EST
>Subject: Re: The Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices

<snip>

>May I be so bold as to suggest that the Phoenix sightings of the
>V-shape objects were in fact modern versions of a possible earlier
>prototype that was seen in Albuquerque, N.M. on 25 of August 1951. It
>was described as a flying wing type aircraft, "...and there was no
>sound that could be attributed to the object. The color of the object
>was not apparent due to the twilight, but dark chordwise stripes were
>noticed under the wings. Six to eight pairs of soft flowing lights
>were noticed on the trailing edge of the wing." Source: Status Report
>No.2, Project Grudge, December 11, 1951. It was not known to be a
>known aircraft at the time, and there was believed to be a similar
>sighthing in Lubbock, Texas.

>Now I know that the 1951 sightings don't match exactly with what was
>seen in Phoenix, but with 40 or so years of "modernization" couldn't
>the Phoenix objects have been the more advanced versions? I would put
>money on the possibility that the objects seen in 1951 and in Phoenix
>were in fact terrestrial versions of some secret development program,
>and thus, would give reason for the military to drop flares to
>distract the media and the rest of us from the real "UFO", if in
>fact, flares were used at all.

>Just a theory that I thought I would share with everybody.


Sorry Jim, that theory been done to death. You are probably new
to this but that old dog just don't hunt. Ask yourself this.
Where's the old models from the 50s? Where's the crash wreckage?
Where is the brilliant technology that created these things? And
then why waste time building B2 bombers at 750 million a copy if
the "military" already has the technology?

Don Ledger









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   Mar > Mar 29

                Re: Radio Search For ET Draws A Blank - Hatch

From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 14:11:44 -0800
Fwd Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 10:39:20 -0500
Subject: Re: Radio Search For ET Draws A Blank - Hatch


>From: Eleanor White <eleanor.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 17:04:32 -0500
>Subject: Re: Radio Search For ET Draws A Blank

>>From: Joe McGonagle <joe.mcgonagle.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 12:39:48 -0000
>>Subject: Radio Search For ET Draws A Blank

>>Radio search for ET draws a blank

>I wonder if it would pay for psychics to regularly attempt to
>scan for signs of life. Psychic signals seem much more promising
>than conventional electromagnetic. An experiment where, say,
>half a dozen psychics, particularly those trained in remote
>viewing and who have demonstrated track records, might make one
>serious attempt per week for a year, keeping their impressions
>in confidential logs until the end of a year.

>They might try for impressions of locations of promising
>segments of the celestial sphere.

>These logs could be tallied and compared at the end of the
>year, and any promising segments referenced by two or more of
>the psychics might then be scrutinzed more closely by radio
>telescopes.

>Congruencies other than location in the sky might suggest
>further experiments.


Hello Eleanor:

As a parallel experiment, with rigorous double blind controls,
expert water dowsers could scan upwards instead of along the
ground. By waving their dowsing sticks at the various parts of
the night sky, and carefully recording the coordinates of any
twitches, records could be established for the most promising
coordinates.

Water is the wellspring of life on this planet of course, and
presumably elsewhere.

After suitable results are recorded from both groups, those
would be compared for any correlations. A third group, religious
prophets say, could be used as a control, and/or to settle
disputes and inconsistencies.


Best wishes

- Larry Hatch









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              Re: The Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices -

From: Kelly Freeman <Khfflsciufo.nul>
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 18:36:31 EST
Fwd Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 10:41:26 -0500
Subject: Re: The Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices -


>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 17:34:36 -0400
>Subject: Re: The Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices

>>From: Kelly Freeman <Khfflsciufo.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 05:38:02 EST
>>Subject: Re: The Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices

<snip>

>>Now I know that the 1951 sightings don't match exactly with what was
>>seen in Phoenix, but with 40 or so years of "modernization" couldn't
>>the Phoenix objects have been the more advanced versions? I would put
>>money on the possibility that the objects seen in 1951 and in Phoenix
>>were in fact terrestrial versions of some secret development program,
>>and thus, would give reason for the military to drop flares to
>>distract the media and the rest of us from the real "UFO", if in
>>fact, flares were used at all.

>>Just a theory that I thought I would share with everybody.

<snip>

>Sorry Jim, that theory been done to death. You are probably new
>to this but that old dog just don't hunt. Ask yourself this.
>Where's the old models from the 50's? Where's the crash wreckage?
>Where is the brilliant technology that created these things? And
>then why waste time building B2 bombers at 750 million a copy if
>the 'military' already has the technology?

Don,

First, the name is Kelly and I have been at this awhile. The
questions you asked are flawed. Who says we are supposed to find
the old models? Did one of them really crash? Where is that
brilliant technology? Perhaps it's not meant to be found... yet.
As for the B2 bombers, the question is irrelevant because the
Defense Department has perfected the art of wasting taxpayers
money. But then, simultaneous secret programs couldn't be
possible, could they? What does John Q. Public have the right to
know, anyway?

The ET hypothesis just does't sit right with me with regard to
the V-shape craft sighted in Phoenix. But then, I could be
wrong...and that's OK, too.


Kelly F.










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   Mar > Mar 29

                      Canadian Prime Minister And UFOs?

From: Chris Rutkowski <rutkows.nul>
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 09:33:46 -0600 (CST)
Fwd Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 10:56:14 -0500
Subject: Canadian Prime Minister And UFOs?


29 March 2004

News Advisory:

Ufology Research of Manitoba

Prime Minister Of Canada May Have Seen Brilliant Fireball Over Alberta

Prime Minister Of Canada May Have Seen Brilliant Fireball Over
Alberta

(Winnipeg, MB) A brilliant fireball was seen across western
Canada and east into Ontario on Sunday night, March 21, 2004. It
was seen by witnesses on the ground and in the air, including
observers on the private jet carrying the Right Honourable Paul
Martin, Prime Minister of Canada.

Ufology Research of Manitoba (UFOROM) has confirmed a report
that the pilot of the Prime Minister's aircraft reported an
unidentified bright object to air traffic controllers in
Edmonton while flying near CFB Suffield on Sunday night, March
21 at 7:56 pm local time. It is not known at this time if the
Prime Minister was advised of the incident, or in fact was also
a witness to the event.

The report, made available to UFOROM through Transport Canada,
noted that pilots of three aircraft, including an Air Canada
flight, a Westjet flight and the government jet, all reported
seeing "a very bright light falling from the sky, with smoke
trailing." In addition, pilots of several other aircraft flying
near Westaskiwin, Alberta, also reported seeing the object. One
of these pilots was said to have described it as "the brightest
fireball he'd ever seen."

Astronomers and other researchers are piecing together the
events of last Saturday night and some now believe that at least
two separate fireballs were seen across Canada, and perhaps
more. There had been several earlier UFO reports received by
investigators on Friday, March 19, from locations across Canada
including Summerside, PEI and Victoria, BC. Those reports
involved bright source or flash of light in the sky, moving from
west to east at high speed.

On Saturday, March 21, 2004, around 7:30 pm CST, literally
hundreds of people in Manitoba, including two RCMP officers, saw
a "comet-like," blue-green object with a long tail fragmenting
and flaring as it fell from the northwest to the southeast. One
witness noted: "It was like Armageddon. A round ball of flames
with a long tail headed straight east." It was thought that an
aircraft had crashed, so emergency vehicles tried to respond to
the reports, but to no avail. Across the border into Minnesota,
witnesses near Minneapolis also saw "a blue light hurtling
towards the ground" in the eastern sky around the same time.

Approximately an hour later, at about 9:30 pm EST, a witness in
Quebec reported seeing a fast-moving object "shaped like two
X's'" flying quickly from the west to the east. Around the same
time, a man and his son were in their car near the Ottawa
airport and watched a bright blue-green fireball with a long
tail falling into the southwest.

What seems to have been another cluster of reports occurred in
Alberta about the same time as the Quebec incidents, when
hundreds more people watched a bright, bluish "comet" zip
quickly through the night sky at about 7:30 pm MST, heading from
the northwest to the southeast. Reports came from observers in
Calgary and Edmonton, and other locations along Alberta Route 2.
Some observers in Saskatchewan reported the fireball flew from
the east to the west, allowing meteor experts to pinpoint its
impact site north of Kindersley. At least one all-sky meteor
camera caught the fireball's terminal burst of light low in the
sky northwest of Calgary at 7:33 pm MST. What makes the Alberta
observations particularly significant is the fact that they
included several reports from pilots, including that from the
Prime Minister's own aircraft.

Further complicating the investigations are other reports such
as one from about 2:30 am Sunday morning in northern Alberta of
another bright fireball falling into the east. And most
recently, several reports were received in Manitoba of yet
another fireball or bright meteor seen on Tuesday night, March
23. In almost all cases, the duration of the fireball was
between five and ten seconds, considered quite long for a
meteoric event. Some witnesses had time to call others to turn
around and look at the object progressing through the night sky.

"We're not talking about spaceships or Martians," says Chris
Rutkowski, research coordinator for Ufology Research of
Manitoba, based in Winnipeg. "There's no question that some
objects were witnessed by many observers across Canada on
Saturday night and Sunday morning, but these were spectacular
bolides - chunks of a comet or perhaps a passing asteroid or
other space debris that entered the Earth's atmosphere at high
speed and burned up, fragmenting as they zipped quickly across
the sky."

Rutkowski has been working with astronomers to piece together
the myriad of reports in order to better understand the events
of last Saturday night.

UFOROM publishes an annual report on UFO sightings in Canada,
including many meteors and fireballs. The annual study is
compiled with the participation of investigators, researchers
and journalists across Canada and from files forwarded by
civilian UFO groups and other agencies. Last month, UFOROM
released its 2003 survey, which found that an all-time record
673 reports of unidentified objects were made to various groups
and investigators in Canada. saw an all-time record high number
of sightings reported. Most sightings have explanations such a
the fireballs seen this past week, but the study notes some of
these objects are more difficult to explain.

Rutkowski says that many witnesses are pilots, police and other
individuals with reasonably good observing capabilities and good
judgement.

He notes: "Popular opinion to the contrary, there is yet to be
any incontrovertible evidence that some UFO cases involve
extraterrestrial contact. However, the continued reporting of
UFOs by the public and the yearly increase in numbers of UFO
reports suggests a need for further examination of the
phenomenon by social, medical and/or physical scientists."

The complete study is available online at:

www.geocities.com/aristotl.geo


Ufology Research of Manitoba is an independent, private research
group and is not affiliated with any government agency,
university or business.

For further information, contact:

Ufology Research of Manitoba
e-mail: rutkows.nul








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                        Re: Phoenix Lights - Hamilton

From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22.nul>
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 17:08:07 -0800
Fwd Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 11:01:39 -0500
Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights - Hamilton


>From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 16:30:22 -0700
>Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights

>>From: Jim Kelly <Azredant.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 12:40:49 EST
>>Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights

>>>From: Mike Fortson <satmike.nul>
>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 10:24:22 -0700
>>>Subject: Phoenix Lights

>>>About the altitude of the A10, LUU2 flare drop.

>>>What I feel some fail to think about is if the flares were
>>>dropped at 12,000 altitude, what would the ignition altitude be?
>>>The flares don't light up as soon as they drop. SOP procedure
>>>would be a 6,000 foot drop, 3,000 ignition, and 500 extinguish.
>>>So even if the flares were to be dropped at 16,000 - as I think
>>>Dr Maccabee stated - the ignition altitude would be much, much
>>>lower. And only those on mountainside homes viewed these lights
>>>anyway.

>>>As an 8:30 p.m. MST., witness to the massive V-shaped craft, I
>>>must congratulate the media and the military for a very
>>>successful diversion. Nearly all the attention of the profoundly
>>>wonderful night on March 13, 1997, has been on those 5-10pm
>>>videos.

>>It all depends on who you talk to about this. I heard that the
>>flares were dropped between 17,000 and 20,000 feet. Can anyone
>>confirm this? Bruce? Tom?

>>As for the diversion theory, why would the military wait 90
>>minutes after the giant triangular craft was buzzing around
>>Phoenix to come up with using the Maryland National Guard as a
>>diversion? It would have made more sense to send them up right
>>after the 8:30 event then waiting until 10:00 PM. Remember, the
>>MNG was already here because they had re-fueled in Phoenix that
>>morning.

>Maybe it took a while to wake up some suit in Washington for
>orders to stage a diversion? Perfectly feasible, given that we
>are dealing with the military. Hell, it took 40 minutes for us
>to scramble planes on 9/11!

>I know how you feel about this case, Jim, and you and I have
>talked, but I do still have nagging doubts about how long it
>took for the MNG to take responsibility for the flare drop.
>_That_ length of delay to me is what's less than credible.


Yes, I was the first to ask the Air National Guard, and the
first response I received was negative, the second response I
received was that they were dropped at 8:30 PM, and the third
response was from another source that said 10:00 PM. The
National Guard Bureau gave no time at all, but stated that the
flare drops were on the gunnery range due southwest of us and
not in line with the lights seen.

BH








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   Mar > Mar 29

              Re: The Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices -

From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22.nul>
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 17:10:33 -0800
Fwd Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 11:03:35 -0500
Subject: Re: The Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices -


>From: Kelly Freeman <Khfflsciufo.nul>
>Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 05:38:02 EST
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Subject: Re: The Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices

>>From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22.nul>
>>To: UFO Updates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Sat. 27 Mar 2004 07:31:05 -0800
>>Subject: Re: The Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices

<snip>

>May I be so bold as to suggest that the Phoenix sightings of the
>V-shape objects were in fact modern versions of a possible
>earlier prototype that was seen in Albuquerque, N.M. on 25 of
>August 1951. It was described as a flying wing type aircraft,
>"...and there was no sound that could be attributed to the
>object. The color of the object was not apparent due to the
>twilight, but dark chordwise stripes were noticed under the
>wings. Six to eight pairs of soft flowing lights were noticed on
>the trailing edge of the wing." Source: Status Report No.2,
>Project Grudge, December 11, 1951. It was not known to be a
>known aircraft at the time, and there was believed to be a
>similar sighthing in Lubbock, Texas.

>Now I know that the 1951 sightings don't match exactly with what
>was seen in Phoenix, but with 40 or so years of "modernization"
>couldn't the Phoenix objects have been the more advanced
>versions? I would put money on the possibility that the objects
>seen in 1951 and in Phoenix were in fact terrestrial versions of
>some secret development program, and thus, would give reason for
>the military to drop flares to distract the media and the rest
>of us from the real "UFO", if in fact, flares were used at all.

>Just a theory that I thought I would share with everybody.

The triangle sighted was reported by multiple witnesses and
would dwarf the rather small prototype which I have seen fly,
BTW, at an Edwards AFB air show.


BH








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   Mar > Mar 29

                Re: Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices? -

From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22.nul>
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 17:15:23 -0800
Fwd Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 11:05:55 -0500
Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices? -


>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 00:12:56 -0500
>Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices?

>>From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 07:27:55 -0800
>>Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices?

>>>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
>>>Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 14:54:00 -0500>
>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices?

>>>>>According to National Air Guard spokespeople in the summer of
>>>>>1997, the flares were released at an unusually high altitude.
>>>>>Capt. Eileen Benz, spokesperson for the Arizona National Guard,
>>>>>and the person who discovered that flares had been dropped that
>>>>evening by the Maryland National Guard (Snowbirds), flares were
>>>>dropped at an altitude of 15,000 ft. Capt. Drew Sullins,
>>>>>spokesman for the MD Nat. Guard. said a squad of A-10 using the
>>>>>Bary Goldwater training range had "dumped several flares" at
>>>>>high altitude.

>>>>Bruce, you fail to mention that at that altitude and distance,
>>>>these so-called perfectly round amber "flares" would be 1,500
>>>>feet in diameter.

>>>I don't know what you mean by this. The flares are fixed in size
>>>by the metal tubes housing the fuel that is burned. Are you
>>>trying to say thatthe flares change their size with altitude?

>>I am saying that based on the angular displacement of the light
>>and its distance from my viewing point, and trig calculations
>>indicate it to be over 1,500 feet in diameter. Pretty large
>>flares.

>The size of the image of a bright light which is too small to
>resolve at some distance (e.g., a bright light bulb a few inches
>in diameter photographed at several miles... or a bright star)
>is a function of its brightness.

>The image size grows with brightness for various optical
>reasons. Astronomers use this fact to estimate star magnitude
>from te size of images on photographic plates (at least they
>used to). Hence one cannot simply project the size of the image
>of a distant light out to the distance of the light and thereby
>estimate the size of the light.

Bruce, I happen to be an amateur astronomer and am familiar with
distant light sources and have spent many hours in the desert
observing the same.

>In other words, your calculation of flare size from image size
>is incorrect. The mst it can give is an upper bound to the size
>of the light source (it could be any size smaller than the upper
>bound).

The image I saw was through a telescope as I have told you
before and it did not flare or glare as a star would. It
appeared the size of the full moon as seen with the naked eye
and, like the moon subtended a definite angle of arc and, like
the moon, its light was mostly confine to the inside of the
circle seen. Therefore, the calculation is correct.

BH







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   Mar > Mar 29

              Re: The Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices -

From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22.nul>
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 17:23:41 -0800
Fwd Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 11:23:47 -0500
Subject: Re: The Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices -


>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 23:57:22 -0500
>Subject: Re: The Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices

>>From: Stuart Miller <stuart.miller4.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 16:55:19 -0000
>>Subject: The Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices

>>The following is a short extract from an interview conducted
>>Phoenix Lights, for UFO Review, a new on-line e-zine to be
>>launched soon. The full interview will appear in the first
>>edition, TBA.

>>Interview date: 24th. March 04.

>>Time: 11:00 pm GMT.

>>SM is Stuart Miller

>>LK is Doctor Lynne Kitei.

>>SM: What is your reaction these days, now, when you still hear
>>the word "flares" mentioned in connection with the lights?

>>LK: Oh boy, that does get my ire. First of all, they weren't
>>flares! That I know. It's funny you should mention that because
>>last night, the three hour show (Coast To Coast 3/24/04) went so
>>well and we were getting such wonderful callers, from all over
>>the United States. It was just really amazing that all these >
>>people were up in the middle of the night listening to this and
>>it was really comforting. I ve had so much positive
>>reinforcement. The last caller though, this guy says, I know you
>>were looking south so it must have been flares on the Barry
>>Goldwater range.

>>Well, besides the fact that if you just look at the data,
>>there's no way these were flares because they don't act like
>>flares. They defy physics, as we know it, as I've been told by
>>numerous optical specialists. Flares cannot stay in a straight
>>line, they cannot form formations, for sure, they're very
>>erratic, they're white not amber. They have giant slope trails
>>and they reflect. That's what they're used for; to reflect light
>>on air.

>As I have pointed out here recently and to Dr. Lynne back in
>1998, when I was analyzing her photos and the videos from March
>13, the lights do not violate 'flare physics', they drop
>downward, and drift with the general eastward wind. But more
>importantly, the triangular using her video and those of Kyzysten
>and Rairdon, shows that the 10 PM video lights were far south of
>Phoenix.

As I keep pointing out both Mike Kryzsten and I saw these lights
through telescopes. He agrees with me - no Flicker! In 2000 re-
enaactment - plenty of flicker and different color. Ignore
eyewitness testimony on this one, but take into account in the
Gulf Breeze incident.

Ignore all the other testimony from March 13th on amber lights
and how they were seen moving horizontally and also docking with
the triangle. I suppose the Triangles shoot out flares which
return to them and dock in bays on the sides!

>>This didn't come up until a month after the USA Today article,
>>when I know the media was just badgering, as we were, for an
>>explanation and so they had to come up with something. The only
>>real hard data that they had were the four videos that night of
>>us looking south, so whoever thought it up was certainly very
>>bright and could make a case because the video itself does not
>>do it justice. It does not do it justice at all because they re
>>white in the video; they flicker in the video which they do not
>>do in real life. They appear smaller as well.

>Who could tell, "in real life" if they flickered by the small
>amount noted in the video - there is noticeable flickering
>sometimes when the lights go out in Rairdon's video and not so
>in Krzysten's when they may be cut off by falling behind the
>mountain ridge.

No flickering, no glow around them. Very poor flares that do mot
illuminate surrounding air or objects.








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   Mar > Mar 29

              Re: The Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices -

From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22.nul>
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 17:26:10 -0800
Fwd Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 11:25:17 -0500
Subject: Re: The Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices -


>From: Jim Speiser <jimspeiser.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 16:26:02 -0700
>Subject: Re: The Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices

>>From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 07:31:05 -0800
>>Subject: Re: The Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices

>>>From: Mike Fortson <satmike.nul>
>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 10:24:22 -0700
>>>Subject: Phoenix Lights

>>>About the altitude of the A10, LUU2 flare drop.

>>You are right Mike. Little attention has been paid to your
>>sighting, Tim Ley's sighting, and Max's sighting of the big
>>triangle and few realize that you describe a V-shape and that
>>others saw a large Triangle-shape. That makes two large objects,
>>not one.

>Wait a second... I don't want to detract from what I feel (for
>the moment) are genuine sightings, but how do we know he simply
>could not see the "trailing edge" of the triangle? A lot of
>misperception occurs at night. I think it's perfectly feasible
>that the two descriptions could be of the same object, viewed
>from different angles and under different conditions.


Many witnesses described the V-shape that Mike saw with long
arms, but they could see the sky between the arms when the
object passed overhead. Not so with the triangle. The triangle
reflected ground lights below it and witnesses could see
rectangular panels on the underbelly.

BH







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   Mar > Mar 29

               Prime Minister's Plane Has Close Encounter With

From: Terry Groff <terry.nul>
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 18:16:53 -0600
Fwd Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 12:58:49 -0500
Subject: Prime Minister's Plane Has Close Encounter With



Prime minister's plane has close encounter with UFO in
otherworldly incident

March 28, 2004

http://www.940news.com/news/news.cfm?dir=national&file=n032827A&n=1

Jim Bronskill

OTTAWA (CP) - What fate the stars hold for Paul Martin may be
unclear.

But one thing's certain: Canada's prime minister recently had a
high-flying close encounter with a UFO. Martin and his entourage
were cruising above Alberta when their Challenger jet came within
an otherworldly whisker of a luminous object streaking through
the night sky. In a report to Edmonton air traffic controllers,
the pilot of Martin's plane noted seeing a "very bright light
falling" through the air, with smoke trailing, while the aircraft
passed over Suffield, Alta., on Sun., March 21.

People aboard at least two other planes also saw the plummeting
object, which was travelling "at a very fast rate of speed" from
a high altitude, says the report.

A copy of the one-page form, titled "UFO Procedures," was
provided to The Canadian Press by Chris Rutkowski of the
Winnipeg-based group Ufology Research of Manitoba.

Rutkowski, a longtime tracker of UFO sightings, obtained the
report from the federal Transport Department, which routinely
forwards him data on unidentified flying objects.

Martin travelled to a farm near Picture Butte, Alta., to announce
an aid package for farmers last Monday.

So was an extraterrestrial envoy trying to convey a message to
Canada's new leader?

Unlikely, says Rutkowski. What the prime minister's plane and
many others saw that night was almost certainty a chunk of a
comet or an asteroid that entered Earth's atmosphere and burned
up into fragments.

An amateur astronomer in Calgary captured the blazing streak on
videotape. And it appears one or more such fireballs were seen by
people across the Prairies and as far east as Quebec.

In any event, it's unclear if Martin or his aides even glimpsed
the object that crossed the plane's path.

"I'm not sure of whether the prime minister himself was apprised
of what the pilot had seen at the time," Rutkowski said.

Justin Kingsley, a spokesman for the Prime Minister's Office,
could not shed light on the question of whether Martin was aware
of the celestial sighting. "I don't have any other information
than what was provided through the protocol of the pilots," said
Kingsley.

Ufology Research of Manitoba publishes an annual study on UFO
sightings in Canada, including many cases involving meteors.

The group's recently released 2003 survey found that a record 673
reports of unidentified objects were made to various
organizations and investigators in Canada








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   Mar > Mar 29

                    2 Daylight Discs Over Calgary Alberta

From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO <hbccufo.nul>
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 17:10:22 -0800
Fwd Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 13:01:01 -0500
Subject: 2 Daylight Discs Over Calgary Alberta


Calgary, Alberta

Date: March 28th 2004
Time: Approx: 5:10 p.m.

Number of witnesses: 3
Number of objects: 2
Shape of objects: Round Discs
Full Description of event/sighting:

I was looking into the sky at the Confederation driving range
watching a ball when I saw the first object moving across the
sky at a high rate of speed. I was able to point it out to two
friends I had there and they tracked it with me. As we watched
it move across the sky - we noticed a second one in front of it
- they were moving at such an incredible rate of speed that they
simply vanished into the distance. The two objects were circular
in shape and had a silver metallic color to them.

HBCC UFO Research is following up the report.

Thank you to the witness for the sighing report.

Brian Vike
Director HBCC UFO Research
Home - Phone 250 845 2189
email: hbccufo.nul
Website: http://www.hbccufo.com








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               Re: 1947 At Roswell, Corona And Other Places -

From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul>
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 21:39:21 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 13:05:07 -0500
Subject: Re: 1947 At Roswell, Corona And Other Places -


>From: Loren Coleman <lcoleman.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 22:19:40 -0500
>Subject: 1947 At Roswell, Corona And Other Places

>Theo Paijmans writes to a Fortean List (and has given me
>permission to forward his remark and my reply to UFO folks):

>"Roswell? Other than a crash of a Mogul balloon and Goddard's
>early rocket experiments, I can't seem to recall any remarkable
>occurrence that would merit the place being 'notorious for the
>paranormal'."

Too bad Theo hasn't done his homework. MOGUL doesn't fit at all
(wrong dates... the papers of July 8 say "found last week", the
characteristics don't match at all etc as noted in my 1994 paper
"The Roswell Incident, The USAF, and the NY Times"). I don't
know why any rational person would consider the crash and
retrieval of an alien space craft paranormal-- remarkable yes,
paranormal no.

>Before I get into the heart of this, here's an interesting
>series of photos showing the rural nature of the alleged crash
>site:

>http://www.alienresistance.org/roswellufocrashsitephotos.htm

Sorry but this site is full of nonsense. The Corn Ranch site has
no connection with the Roswell or any other UFO Crash and has
been totally discredited. The Knight family that owned the land
said the only way, in 1947, was by horseback. Frank Kaufmann's
testimony has been shown to be totally worthless as admitted
even by Kevin Randle who touted it so highly for years, despite
there being nothing to support it. The captions say Mac Brazel
led the sherrif to that site, which is nonsense since Brazel led
Marcel and Cavitt to the debris field site many miles away on
the old Foster Ranch... he didn't lead the sheriff anywhere.....

>Without becoming lost in the whole "crashed saucer" debate, I
>think it is worth pointing out that since this discussion is
>about Fortean locations, to be specific, more mystery seems to
>surround what happened at Corona, New Mexico, some 45 miles
>north of Roswell. I really don't have any idea what the
>prevailing Ufological feeling is about the importance of Corona
>versus Roswell. But the "site" of more significance in the
>investigations of the 1947 crash, it seems the crash researchers
>talk about "the unidentified craft" skipping on the ground at
>Roswell and ending up at Corona, true?

No, false. Corona is much more than 45 miles from Roswell. No
skipping. The book by Don Berliner and I: "Crash at Corona: The
Definitive Study of the Roswell Incident" (I still have copies
available) is named that because the crash was much closer to
the tiny (under 1000 pop.) Corona than to the much larger
Roswell (25,000 then) and, of course, the military base was in
Roswell.

>Being more interested in "the locations," what I do see is that
>while Corona is in Lincoln County (!), Roswell is actually in
>Chaves County. From east to west are the counties of Chaves,
>then Lincoln, and finally Socorro. Of course, Socorro County is
>a "hot" location - for more than 1947 UFO reasons. The White
>Sands Missile Range covers the SW corner of Lincoln County, SE
>corner of Soccoro County, and others, such as the eastern edge
>of Otero County, home of Alamogordo, NM. Alamogordo is most
>often associated as being "near" the Trinity Site, the location
>of the first atomic bomb explosion, but it is 85 miles from
>Alamogordo to the Trinity Site and the nearby McDonald ranch
>house.

White Sands Missile Range is the alrgest military base in the
USA. Trinity site is on the range. Alamogordo is at the edge.
Holloman AFB is also right there...

>See:

>http://www.alamogordo.com/Old/trinity.html

>Of note to certain Forteans is these locations being so near 33
>degrees latitude. Even a mainstream online place like CNN
>Interactive enjoys pointing out that, near Soccoro:

>"It was here - 33 degrees, 40 minutes, 31 seconds north
>latitude, 106 degrees, 28 minutes, 29 seconds west longitude -
> where the world changed on July 16, 1945, at 5:29 a.m. Mountain
>War Time." See:

>http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/cold.war/experience/the.bomb/route/03.trinity/

>That JFK would be killed near the Trinity River, on the way to
>the Triple Overpass, at the old Masonic Temple location known as
>Dealey Plaza (on a ley-line, so to speak), ten miles north of 33
>degrees north latitude is chilling to some. Merely an intriguing
>coincidence to others.

>And some people even think that JFK was killed from the Grassy
>Knoll. Okay, hold on. I just had one of those Fortean moments. I
>was concurrently examining the "Timeline of the BTK killings":

>http://ap.tbo.com/ap/breaking/MGACPZE4CSD.html

>to forward to associates interested in such matters. And what
>did I notice? That the first victims were members of the Otero
>family. I don't recall running across the name "Otero" before
>today, only having see it earlier this evening as the county in
>which Alamogordo is located. Therefore, taking the next step, I
>wanted to see what "Otero" means, via the handy AltaVista Babel
>Translation tool. Well, alright, the word Otero = Knoll.

>Just another evening of Fortean coincidences, I guess. ;-}

>Thanks to Theo for sending me on this little sidetrip.


As I keep telling people there is an awful lot of garbage out
there about the Roswell Incident.


Stan Friedman







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              Re: The Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices -

From: Jim Kelly <Azredant.nul>
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 20:42:47 EST
Fwd Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 14:20:57 -0500
Subject: Re: The Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices -


>From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 12:26:27 -0800
>Subject: Re: The Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices

>>From: Jim Kelly <Azredant.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 13:24:12 EST
>>Subject: Re: The Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices

>>>From: Stuart Miller <stuart.miller4.nul>
>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 16:55:19 -0000
>>>Subject: Re: The Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices

<snip>

>>You don't think that flare drops are not common worldwide? They
>>happen on an almost daily occurrence. Just check out Peter
>>Davenport's website.

>>Now I will be the first to admit that not all of these sightings
>>are not flares. Yet, how do you distinguish military flare
>>lights or a UFO sighting?

>Jim, you obviously don't pay attention to detail or credit
>eyewitness testimony or even pay attention to what the spokesman
>for the Maryland ANG stated. This is all useless argument and
>people will just believe what they want to believe - as you do
>about these events.


Sorry Bill, witness testimony was all over the map on what was
seen on March 13th. From orange to yellow, red or Amber color
orbs, some with structure, some without, some of them stobing,
some of them not.  So which of the witness testimony reports do
you throw out?  The ones that don't agree with your theory?

As far as the MNG stated. I know exactly what they said.  I also
know that none of the UFO investigators from Village Labs or
MUFON Arizona asked the local Air Force involved the simple
question of who was visiting on TDY status!  IF one of you had,
the conspiracy whack- jobs might have been silenced.  But since
some of the local investigators were clamoring for television
and book rights, they forgot to do one important thing:

Investigate the case.

Jim Kelly








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                    BBC 'Methane Poses Mars Life Puzzle'

From: Paul Anderson <paulanderson.nul>
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 23:41:00 -0800
Fwd Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 14:22:12 -0500
Subject: BBC 'Methane Poses Mars Life Puzzle'



http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/3577551.stm

____________

Mars Exploration Rovers - Analysis and Updates
http://www3.telus.net/paulanderson/merau.html






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               Re: 1947 At Roswell, Corona And Other Places -

From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais.nul>
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 12:44:11 +0200
Fwd Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 14:23:45 -0500
Subject: Re: 1947 At Roswell, Corona And Other Places -


>From: Loren Coleman <lcoleman.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 22:19:40 -0500
>Subject: 1947 At Roswell, Corona And Other Places

>Theo Paijmans writes to a Fortean List (and has given me
>permission to forward his remark and my reply to UFO folks):

>"Roswell? Other than a crash of a Mogul balloon and Goddard's
>early rocket experiments, I can't seem to recall any remarkable
>occurrence that would merit the place being 'notorious for the
>paranormal'."

<snip>

>to forward to associates interested in such matters. And what
>did I notice? That the first victims were members of the Otero
>family. I don't recall running across the name "Otero" before
>today, only having see it earlier this evening as the county in
>which Alamogordo is located. Therefore, taking the next step, I
>wanted to see what "Otero" means, via the handy AltaVista Babel
>Translation tool. Well, alright, the word Otero =3D Knoll.

>Just another evening of Fortean coincidences, I guess. ;-}

>Thanks to Theo for sending me on this little sidetrip.


Loren, and the List,

Sorry, all this sounds like Fortean gibberish to me.

I feel able to say that, after having studied carefully the
Roswell case, especially all the good work done by so many
researchers over the years.

Even after the demise of witnesses like Kaufmann and
Ragsdale, the case of the UFO remains strong, without the need
for esoteric arguments ot he Fortean kind.

Among the strong points is the complete elimination of the Mogul
story, thanks to the efforts of David Rudiak and others. I added
my little piece to that, pointing to the probability that Brazel
did find the remains of a little balloon cluster on June 14,
such as the NYU team launched everyday in WhiteSands.

There were probably flowered taped radar targets attached to it,
and this would explain very simply his testimony of July 8. But
it had nothing to do with the discovery of the debris field,
beginning of July. I have explained all that in my new book,
released recently in French, called:

"Roswell. Inquiries, Secrecy and Disinformation"
("Roswell. Enqu=EAtes, secret et d=E9sinformation")

I have writen a little article in english to present it,
which can be viewed at:

http://www.ufocom.org/pages/v_us/m_articles/roswell.htm

Another strong point of Roswell, clearly, is that several
credible witnesses have mentioned a site closer to Roswell for
the discovery, and secret retrieval, of the crashed craft. I am
not speaking here of Kaufmann and Ragsdale.

For instance, Lewis Rickett and a new witness, Chester Barton
(see IUR of Summer 2001), have mentioned a site at about 45
minutes north of Roswell. Other winesses pointing to that are
William Woodie, Frankie Rowe and an anonymous witness quoted by
Dennis Balthaser.

BTW, I have read a discussion between Jan Aldrich and others
which took place in June 2003 and was published in the "Ohio UFO
Notebook" of Summer 2003. A series of skeptical arguments were
presented against Roswell. For instance, that the base should
have been put under alert. Well, I don't agree. If there was a
policy of great secrecy for the retrieval of the craft, the last
thing to do was to put the base under alert ! And the fact that
some simple soldiers, among whom some cooks, were recruited on
the spot to mount guard, does not sound like a strong argument
either. If the military police was alredy fully mobilised in the
field, then there may have been some shortage of guards, and
that's all there was to it. Please note that, according to
several witnesses, they were all sworn to secrecy, and at least
some people were rapidly transfered to distant bases.

Gildas Bourdais








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   Mar > Mar 29

               Re: Methane Find On Mars May Be Sign Of Life -

From: Josh Goldstein <lovolution.nul>
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 03:51:21 -0800
Fwd Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 14:26:14 -0500
Subject: Re: Methane Find On Mars May Be Sign Of Life -


>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 18:05:44 +0000
>Subject: Re: Methane Find On Mars May Be Sign Of Life

>>From: Dan Bright <ufo.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 15:22:53 -0000
>>Subject: Methane Find On Mars May Be Sign Of Life

>>Source: The Independent

>>http://tinyurl.com/2krjq

>>Methane find on Mars may be sign of life

>>By Steve Connor, Science Editor
>>27 March 2004

>>A strong signal of life on Mars has been detected by scientists
>>at the US National Aeronautics and Space Admin- istration (Nasa)
>>and the European Space Agency.

>>Each group has independently discovered tantalising evidence of
>>methane in the Martian atmosphere. Methane, a waste product of
>>living organisms on Earth, could also be a by-product of alien
>>microbes living under the surface of the Red Planet.

><snip>

>Well, that explains the Martian "UFO." Swamp gas!


Hi Dick,

I found that report fascinating. But you forgot to mention that
with all the speculation about aliens a lot bigger than
microbes, they may be advanced subterranean dwellers farting
from underground along with kazillions of microbes. That may
well be why the methane level is so high on Mars. :-)

I was somewhat amazed that besides the good stuff on this List a
number of people are so desparate to confirm that there are or
were advanced lifeforms on Mars that they speculate over little
marks on rocks or try to show lousy quality photos of Mars
terrain designs to prove that only aliens could have made them.
Of course George Filer is the deluded leader of that pack.

I live in the wild west of California therefore I operate using
frontier justice. That drives me to a frenzy that "factless
truth speculaters" fail to start their missives saying I imagine
that X is made by... but try to claim their fantasies as "the
truth". Then again that applies to a great many people in our
world who have been interested in Ufos.

Here in Santa Cruz, CA the sherriff of surfing says "I pronounce
that you get evidential or get out of town!.If not we will shoot
off your woodie."


Josh









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                   Strange Formations in Nuevo Leon Mexico

From: Scott Corrales <lornis1.nul>
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 08:25:37 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 14:28:13 -0500
Subject: Strange Formations in Nuevo Leon Mexico



SOURCE: Fundacion Cosmos, A.C.
DATE: 28 March 2004
Images at www.reforma.com


Strange Formations Found In Nuevo Leon Fields

According to information published in the State edition of the
Reforma newspaper on March 26, 2004, some strange crop
formations were found in fields near the city of Cadereyta in
the state of Nuevo Leon.

Up to now we have only had knowledge of the event. However, the
details will be made known shortly, since upon observing the
photo appearing in the newspaper, we realized that the depressed
areas are very similar to the ones appearing in British fields
and whose formation and design is extraordinarily beautiful. No
definite contour can be appreciated in these strange markings,
but the fact remains that they are very similar to the ones
recorded in other parts of our country in early 2003, such as
Los Mochis, Ciudad Obregon and the state of Morelos

We shall be on the lookout for any new developments in these
formations, which have startled farmers in the locality of
Cadereyta.

=====================================================

Translation (c) 2004, Scott Corrales
Institute of Hispanic Ufology (IHU)
Special thanks to Marco Reynoso, Fundacion Cosmos









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   Mar > Mar 29

               Prime Minister's Plane Has Close Encounter With

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 06:27:30 -0800
Fwd Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 14:31:43 -0500
Subject: Prime Minister's Plane Has Close Encounter With


Source: 940 News - Montreal

http://www.940news.com/news/news.cfm?dir=national&file=n032827A&n=1

Prime minister's plane has close encounter with UFO in
otherworldly incident
at 17:31 on March 28, 2004, EST.
JIM BRONSKILL

OTTAWA (CP) - What fate the stars hold for Paul Martin may be
unclear.

But one thing's certain: Canada's prime minister recently had a
high-flying close encounter with a UFO. Martin and his entourage
were cruising above Alberta when their Challenger jet came
within an otherworldly whisker of a luminous object streaking
through the night sky. In a report to Edmonton air traffic
controllers, the pilot of Martin's plane noted seeing a "very
bright light falling" through the air, with smoke trailing,
while the aircraft passed over Suffield, Alta., on Sun., March
21.

People aboard at least two other planes also saw the plummeting
object, which was travelling "at a very fast rate of speed" from
a high altitude, says the report.

A copy of the one-page form, titled "UFO Procedures," was
provided to The Canadian Press by Chris Rutkowski of the
Winnipeg-based group Ufology Research of Manitoba.

Rutkowski, a longtime tracker of UFO sightings, obtained the
report from the federal Transport Department, which routinely
forwards him data on unidentified flying objects.

Martin travelled to a farm near Picture Butte, Alta., to
announce an aid package for farmers last Monday.

So was an extraterrestrial envoy trying to convey a message to
Canada's new leader?

Unlikely, says Rutkowski. What the prime minister's plane and
many others saw that night was almost certainty a chunk of a
comet or an asteroid that entered Earth's atmosphere and burned
up into fragments.

An amateur astronomer in Calgary captured the blazing streak on
videotape. And it appears one or more such fireballs were seen
by people across the Prairies and as far east as Quebec.

In any event, it's unclear if Martin or his aides even glimpsed
the object that crossed the plane's path.

"I'm not sure of whether the prime minister himself was apprised
of what the pilot had seen at the time," Rutkowski said.

Justin Kingsley, a spokesman for the Prime Minister's Office,
could not shed light on the question of whether Martin was aware
of the celestial sighting. "I don't have any other information
than what was provided through the protocol of the pilots," said
Kingsley.

Ufology Research of Manitoba publishes an annual study on UFO
sightings in Canada, including many cases involving meteors.

The group's recently released 2003 survey found that a record
673 reports of unidentified objects were made to various
organizations and investigators in Canada.










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                Scoop Marks And Bruising In Sonora California

From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO <hbccufo.nul>
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 06:38:46 -0800
Fwd Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 14:34:50 -0500
Subject: Scoop Marks And Bruising In Sonora California


Scoop Marks And Bruising In Sonora, California

Date: March 25, 2004
Time: Approx: 9:00 p.m.

Names in this report have been changed to protect the privacy of
the witness.

Also photos can be viewed at the following web address:
http://www.hbccufo.com/index.php

Brian,

Here's the pictures of my brother's scoop marks. As I said,
this morning I noticed the marks on his back. I asked him what
happened and he had no idea. He said that last Thursday, he and
mom were sitting outside of work (a retail store in our area)
and both he and mom noticed a large white light as he says, "the
size of a nickel." It seemed close and as they watched it flew
to the left a little ways and seemed to stop and then got
smaller as if it faded in the distance and blinked out. There
were no FAA mandated blinking lights on the object. My brother
told me, "planes don't make right angle turns like that and then
fade into nothing".

When I asked him if he remembers how he got the marks, he looked
confused and said he had no idea.

If he does remember anything more, we will email you.

Thanks, Brian.

Sincerely,

Additional Information Below:

Oh my god! Brian I will ask my brother those questions in the
morning, he has already gone to bed. But I almost forgot! A few
days ago my brother was having nose bleeds for two or three
days! I'll ask him which nostril tomorrow. I remember him
bleeding and when I saw those marks, I remarked on the
nosebleeds as well. My brother, doesn't feel any pain in the
area. He didn't know the marks were there until I noticed them.
With the bruise all around them, I was amazed that he hadn't
fallen or hit something. But he looked totally confused when I
asked him what happened.

1. We live in Sonora, California

2. About 9:00 PM the light in the sky was seen.

3. They were facing North and the object flew westward. 4.
Observation lasted between 20 and 30 seconds.

5. It looked more like it was disappearing into the distance as
it flew away from them.

6. It was about 100 to 150 yards above them when spotted.

7. As they were looking at it, they could see planes that seemed
to be off in the distance behind the light. The planes seemed to
be higher than the light. The planes did not react to the
object.

8. Clear, starry sky, no clouds in the area.

9. No smell was noticed.

11. No time loss seemed to have happened.

12. He felt an ache in his back, but no pain as such.

13. His nose was bleeding for two days and the blood was in the
right nostril.

14. Large nickel sized light, maybe a little oval in shape,
white, maybe a tint of blue in color.

15. No the bruising just surrounded the scoop marks.

16. No illness, but a little nausea three days ago, when he woke
up.

17. He doesn't remember any cold feeling.

Thank you to the folks for the report.

Brian Vike
Director HBCC UFO Research
Home - Phone 250 845 2189
email: hbccufo.nul
Website: http://www.hbccufo.com






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   Mar > Mar 29

                          Making Noise Over The Hum

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 06:44:49 -0800
Fwd Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 14:36:17 -0500
Subject: Making Noise Over The Hum


Source: The Indy Star - Kokomo Indiana

http://www.indystar.com/articles/2/133270-5162-009.html

Making noise over the hum
In Kokomo, complaints remain

By Tammy Webber
tammy.webber.nul
March 28, 2004

KOKOMO, Ind. -- Time has been kind to this storied city, where
old neon signs hang above shop entrances and blocks of stately
buildings form picturesque streetscapes.

Residents like to boast that Kokomo is the birthplace of the
first American-built automobile, the pneumatic tire, stainless
steel and the carburetor.

But in recent years, this city of about 46,000, an hour north of
Indianapolis, has been known for something else.

The Kokomo hum.

A drone so incessant that some claim it is making their lives
miserable and ruining their health.

While residents realize not everyone can hear their hum, they
say it's time for the state to hear their pleas.

"We are appealing to the state, 'Will you help us?' " said Gael
Deppert, an Indianapolis attorney who said she is volunteering
her services to help residents. "We need to bring in scientists
knowledgeable in various fields to try to grapple with this
situation. We're asking the state to come in with an open mind."

On Friday, Jim Cowan, a Massachusetts researcher who has studied
the hum, and Jeff Symmes, a Lafayette-area resident who says he
became ill while working in Kokomo asked Gov. Joe Kernan's
office for an in-depth study.

More than 100 people have complained of severe headaches,
nausea, joint pain, debilitating heart problems or memory loss
after they began feeling or hearing the hum.

Kernan spokeswoman Tina Noel said the governor would consider
the proposal.

Maureen Christie said a state study is overdue. She said she
began hearing the hum in 1999; the pipes in her home rattled and
it sometimes sounded to her as if she were in an airplane flight
path. Her sinuses bother her, she has memory lapses and her
joints ache.

When she called the State Department of Health to report a
booming sound, she said someone there told her she might want to
check her yard for a meteorite.

"I never called them again," said Christie, 61.

State environment officials said they're not quite sure where to
begin.

"We don't have experts on low-frequency noise," said Tim Method,
deputy commissioner of the Indiana Department of Environmental
Management.

In fact, there has been little research in the United States on
low-frequency noise or its health effects. There are no federal
or state standards for such emissions and no money to study
them, Method said.

He said the agency asked for assistance from the U.S.
Environmental Protection Agency and the Centers for Disease
Control and Prevention when the issue arose a few years ago, but
neither provided funding or technical help.

"This is new for almost everybody," said Method, who
participated in a discussion early last week with state health
officials -- talks that included Deppert, Symmes, Cowan and
other researchers. "We're willing to listen."

A non-believer

Brian Riffe shakes his head and smiles.

He's never heard the hum and doesn't believe it exists -- except
perhaps in the imaginations of a small group of residents.

"I think it's silly, I really do," said Riffe, 21, who manages
Victory Bike Shop. "I don't want to talk badly about some person
who is seriously having problems, but I think maybe we should
have more proof."

He also worries that attention generated by the hum -- stories
have appeared in national media as well as UFO Web sites --
 gives the town a bad name.

"I love this town and this is one more thing: Kokomo's got crazy
people complaining about the hum," he said. "Maybe there is some
proof behind this, and if there is, I'll eat my words."

Skepticism is the biggest stumbling block to getting regulators
and health officials to support a study, said Symmes.

"Most people think it's a joke, and that's a problem," he said.

Symmes was diagnosed by researchers in Portugal with
vibroacoustic disease -- a condition induced by low-frequency
vibrations that causes thickening of the pericardium, the thin
membrane around the heart.

He said he first suspected something was wrong when he was
working in Kokomo in 1999 and began having nosebleeds, severe
headaches, fatigue and joint pain that couldn't be explained by
doctors -- complaints similar to those of dozens of other
residents, based on letters written to lawmakers.

Vibroacoustic disease also can cause pulmonary fibrosis and
damage the central nervous and immune systems, said Mariana
Alves-Pereira, a researcher at the Center for Human Performance
in Portugal, where most studies of the disease have taken place.

The fact that some people in Kokomo -- especially those who work
in industry -- may be exposed to it 24 hours a day, seven days a
week "is very worrisome," she said.

"In Kokomo, our worry is that it apparently is in the home, in
schools, in playground -- everywhere," said Alves-Pereira.

There is no doubt that low-frequency vibrations exist in Kokomo.

An $80,000 study funded by the city of Kokomo last year
confirmed low-frequency tones coming from equipment at two local
factories, perhaps contributing to the hum. Although Haynes
International, a manufacturer of metal alloys, and
DaimlerChrysler's casting plant have agreed to try to muffle the
sounds, researchers say the mystery of the Kokomo hum is far
from solved.

The hum also could be caused or worsened by radio and
electromagnetic frequencies from cell phone towers and other as-
yet-undiscovered sources, said Cowan, the Massachusetts
acoustical engineer who conducted the study.

An Illinois consulting company that measured radio frequencies
and radiation as part of the study described a "fairly complex
electromagnetic environment for a small city," due to cellular
phone towers, radio stations and nearby airports.

That could explain why some residents report hearing a high-
pitched sound, rather than the low booms or vibrations of low-
frequency noise, he said.

Infrasound, very low-frequency noises, are below the range of
human hearing, but can create vibrations and cause other objects
to produce sound. Most people cannot hear tones below 20 hertz;
Cowan measured tones as low as 10 hertz near Haynes.

Electromagnetic radiation does not cause measurable pressures,
but some theorize it could cause sounds to be generated in a
person's head, Cowan said.

Next month, Cowan will retest in Kokomo to determine if the low-
frequency tones around Haynes and DaimlerChrysler have abated.

"I personally think electromagnetic fields have more to do with
(the hum), but we won't know that till we check it out. That's
the big mystery."

Experts estimate it would cost about $400,000 to survey and
inspect sources of ultralow-frequency noise and electromagnetic
waves and determine if they might cause residents' health
problems. They also want the state to host a scientific
symposium on the issue of noise pollution and its effect on
health.

Kokomo city attorney Ken Ferries said officials know the city's
study didn't provide all the answers.

"It's not unusual in industry to have machines that create
noises, but I don't think that's the whole story," he said.

That's why there is no time to waste, said Deppert, the
Indianapolis attorney.

"My sense is that technology has advanced more quickly than our
understanding of the health implications of that technology,"
she said. "I hope that the state could be a significant
contributor to the body of information and maybe help all of us
catch up with the learning curve."










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   Mar > Mar 29

                 Private Spacecraft Could Launch This Summer

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 07:14:39 -0800
Fwd Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 14:39:53 -0500
Subject: Private Spacecraft Could Launch This Summer


Source: The Star Tribune - Minneapolis

http://www.startribune.com/stories/484/4684382.html

Last update: March 28, 2004 at 9:58 AM
Private spacecraft could launch this summer
Betsy Taylor, Associated Press

ST. LOUIS -- The reward is great but so is the risk.

Some of the 27 teams pursuing the $10 million X Prize for the
first privately funded manned spaceflight are closing in on a
goal that once seemed outlandish, and organizers believe a space
trip could be attempted as early as summer.

Announced eight years ago, the goal is to build a craft that can
carry three passengers 62.5 miles above the planet, then make a
second suborbital trip within two weeks.

"It's going to happen in 2004. Someone will win it," said Gregg
Maryniak, director of the St. Louis-based X Prize Foundation,
which was created to spark development of reusable spacecraft
that can take civilians into space. Many of the teams have
conducted test launches -- one U.S. entry propelled a craft to
68,000 feet, or about 13 miles.

Crews from seven nations are pursuing the prize. It's a diverse
assemblage. Teams range from one financed by a billionaire to a
group of scraped-together volunteers. Several boast leading
minds who toss around aerospace terms with dizzying precision;
others lament unexpected fires and explosions as part of the
learning process.

Brian Feeney, 44, is team leader of the Toronto-based da Vinci
Project. In its simplest terms, the group plans to lift a craft
called Wild Fire using an immense helium balloon. The design
switches over to rockets to fly and uses a steerable parachute
to land.

Feeney plans to be on board for the first manned attempt. He
said he thinks of the risk as similar to that of climbing Mount
Everest. "Life is way too short to not explore those
boundaries," he said.

"How many times does a kid have a chance to go into space? I'm
living my dream," he said. "I feel like I'm limited; my bicycle
won't go as far as I want it to. My grandest dream goes all the
way to the stars."

The top competitors include Scaled Composites of Mojave, Calif.
Several competitors believe Scaled Composites could take the
prize.

Financed by Microsoft billionaire Paul Allen, it is led by
aviation pioneer Burt Rutan, perhaps best known for his design
of Voyager, an aircraft that circled the globe in a non-stop
1986 flight without refueling.










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             Re: UFO Magazine Folds After Editor's Death - Hale

From: Roy Hale <roy.nul>
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 16:29:14 +0100
Fwd Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 14:41:09 -0500
Subject: Re: UFO Magazine Folds After Editor's Death - Hale


>From: Joe McGonagle <joe.mcgonagle.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 20:17:04 -0000
>Subject: Re: UFO Magazine Folds After Editor's Death

>Perhaps you would prefer me not to promote FSR?


Joe,

Below are my questions to you.

In the 50 years of FSR being published, had you ever thought of
promoting it apart from this year?

Have you ever agreed with the views of FSR, laid down in stone
by G Creighton?

If yes, I understand you are a sceptic, does this mean you are
changing your presently held views on UFOs and the reality of
Humanoids visiting this planet via craft, documented by FSR over
the last 50 years?

How many sceptic writers has FSR had writing for it in the last
50 years?

How many UK sceptics have promoted FSR in the last 50 years?

Should I feel at odds with a sceptic who wishes to promote the
UKs most documented Humanoid Contact magazine?


Regards,

Roy








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                   Another Scoop Mark & El Paso Experience

From: Brian Vike HBCC UFO <hbccufo.nul>
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 08:20:41 -0800
Fwd Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 14:44:20 -0500
Subject: Another Scoop Mark & El Paso Experience


Received: March 29, 2004

Photos can be viewed at:

http://www.hbccufo.com/index.php

Dear Mr. Vike,

My son sent me a link to the website regarding scars that are
"scoop  marks" and asked me to tell you my story.

I actually have two scars on my thighs. My skin is extremely
white unless I have been in the sun, so the one on the left
thigh is nearly invisible and the one on the right nearly so.
The scar on the left thigh is oval shaped, about the size of a
thumbprint, and full of tiny pinpricks. It is located high up
near my groin and originally was on the inside of my thigh. Over
the years (and as I gained weight), the scar migrated toward the
front of my thigh.

I have a strange memory about receiving this scar. I remember
that I was less than six years old. I was in a doctor's office
and he gave me what I remembered as a "vaccination". I was lying
on a table screaming as he did the procedure, and something or
someone was holding me down. I could see my mother behind the
doctor. She was standing still, almost frozen, staring at us and
not reacting at all - which was extremely strange since she
normally was overly reactive and could not stand to even see me
get an injection. Years later I mentioned the incident to her
and she denied it ever happened, even when I showed her the
scar.

The scar on my right thigh is triangular and featureless, about
a quarter inch in length. I have attached a photo of this scar.
I have no memory of receiving this scar, although I can remember
what caused every other scar I have. My son wrote you and told
you about the day we talked about our scars (erroneously stating
that mine was on the right thigh). What I find very odd  is that
he cannot remember that his sister was there when we discussed
our scars. My daughter also showed us a scar on her thigh that
was identical to ours. None of us remember getting these scars,
nor can I remember any injuries my children might have received
that would have resulted in this kind of scarring.

When I lived in El Paso, Texas, I often watched the desert sky
at night hoping to see shooting stars. I don't recall ever
seeing anything that might have been considered a UFO - at least
not at night, but I do remember one incident very vividly - and
it happened in broad daylight. I was driving on what used to be
called War Road in Northeast El Paso in the summer of 1977.

We frequently drove this road to and from our house. My children
were both in the car with me on this occasion. An extension of
the University of Texas at El Paso had recently been built
nearby, but at the time, this road was not as busy as it has
become now that houses have been built all along it and it has
become a major freeway called Gateway North/South.

I had turned onto War Road from Hondo Pass and as I neared the
college I saw a small circular object in the sky. It looked like
an oversized Frisbee at first. As it came closer, I slowed my
vehicle to get a better look at it. I remember yelling to the
children to look at the object, but they couldn't see it from
the back seat. The object was traveling slowly across the road,
like it was hovering, and it was spinning as it went. Small
markings around the edge resembled windows. It appeared to be
about three foot across and less than a foot deep at the center
axis. I had the vivid impression that there was nothing alive
within it, more like it was a remote control device. Suddenly,
as though whatever was controlling it became aware of my
presence, it shot down at an angle into the desert between me
and the college buildings. I stopped the car, intending to go
look at it more closely. Just before I got out of the car,
however, I glanced in the rearview mirror and saw several cars
coming toward me. There was no place to park as there was no
shoulder on the road and I had to drive on to avoid being hit.

The area where this occurred was near several military bases,
including Fort Bliss and MacGregor Range. When I mentioned the
incident to friends, several warned me that I shouldn't tell too
many people about it because it might have been a test flight by
the military of something created using alien technology. I have
no idea what it really was.

My son told you about his dreams and wanted me to tell you of
similar ones I had most of my life. I had dreams many times that
were always the same. I was in a place that was formed of metal
walls. In my dreams I always thought of it as "home" although it
never resembled any place I ever lived. I would decide to go
somewhere and instead of walking I would bend at the waist, lift
my feet and float. I would propel myself by pushing on the walls
or grabbing projections and pull myself onward. These dreams
occurred when I was a child long before the first space flights
and before I ever read any science fiction stories. They
continued until my mid-30's.

My son also wanted me to mention that the extensive medical
records of my son, my daughter and myself were "lost" from the
military hospital in El Paso - Beaumont - within two years of my
husband's retirement.

Mr. Vike, I would prefer that you didn't use my full name if you
decide to have my story posted on the website. Other than that,
you are free to use this information as you wish. I hope you
find this useful.

Sincerely,

My deepest thanks to the person for their story.

Brian Vike
Director HBCC UFO Research
Home - Phone 250 845 2189
email: hbccufo.nul
Website: http://www.hbccufo.com






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                Re: Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices? -

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 11:39:42 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 14:46:07 -0500
Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices? -


>From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 17:15:23 -0800
>Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices?

>>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 00:12:56 -0500
>>Subject: Re: Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices?

<snip>

>Bruce, I happen to be an amateur astronomer and am familiar with
>distant light sources and have spent many hours in the desert
>observing the same.

>>In other words, your calculation of flare size from image size
>>is incorrect. The mst it can give is an upper bound to the size
>>of the light source (it could be any size smaller than the upper
>>bound).

>The image I saw was through a telescope as I have told you
>before and it did not flare or glare as a star would. It
>appeared the size of the full moon as seen with the naked eye
>and, like the moon subtended a definite angle of arc and, like
>the moon, its light was mostly confine to the inside of the
>circle seen. Therefore, the calculation is correct.

I guess bottom line is that I believe my triangulation is
correct (based on video analysis, having been at the locations
and measured directions, etc.)

You believe your visual impressions are correct.

I can't refute your recollection of visual impression.

My triangulation, however, could be refuted if it is wrong. I
first published my triangulation results in 1998. As yet, no one
has produced data to refute the triangulation, based on the
Krzysten, Rairdon and Lynne videos for March 13, 1997. Nor has
anyone refuted the comparison triangulation I did for lights in
1998 based on Lynne, Krzysten, Rairdon and "P" videos. Th lights
recorded in the 1998 videos produced the same sorts of video
images as the lghts recorded on March 13, 1997.








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              Re: The Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices -

From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 12:46:21 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 16:52:24 -0500
Subject: Re: The Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices -


>From: Kelly Freeman <Khfflsciufo.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 18:36:31 EST
>Subject: Re: The Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices


>>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 17:34:36 -0400
>>Subject: Re: The Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices

>>>From: Kelly Freeman <Khfflsciufo.nul>
>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 05:38:02 EST
>>>Subject: Re: The Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices

><snip>

>>Now I know that the 1951 sightings don't match exactly with what
>>was seen in Phoenix, but with 40 or so years of "modernization"
>>couldn't the Phoenix objects have been the more advanced
>>versions? I would put money on the possibility that the objects
>>seen in 1951 and in Phoenix were in fact terrestrial versions of
>>some secret development program, and thus, would give reason for
>>the military to drop flares to distract the media and the rest of
>>us from the real "UFO", if in fact, flares were used at all.
>

>>Just a theory that I thought I would share with everybody.
>

><snip>

>Sorry Jim, that theory been done to death. You are probably new to
>this but that old dog just don't hunt. Ask yourself this. Where's
>the old models from the 50's? Where's the crash wreckage? Where is
>the brilliant technology that created these things? And then why
>waste time building B2 bombers at 750 million a copy if the
>'military' already has the technology?

>First, the name is Kelly and I have been at this awhile. The
>questions you asked are flawed. Who says we are supposed to find the
>old models? Did one of them really crash? Where is that brilliant
>technology? Perhaps it's not meant to be found... yet. As for the B2
>bombers, the question is irrelevant because the Defense Department
>has perfected the art of wasting taxpayers money. But then,
>simultaneous secret programs couldn't be possible, could they? What
>does John Q. Public have the right to know, anyway?

>The ET hypothesis just does't sit right with me with regard to the
>V-shape craft sighted in Phoenix. But then, I could be wrong...and
>that's OK, too.

Kelly-sorry,

Mine are flawed.

You don't sound like you've been at this for awhile nor that you
have read much. Your "secret technology" is a waste of time and
naive. And how the US government wastes money on its bombers is
irrelevant. You said, "But then, simultaneous secret programs
couldn't be possible, could they? What does John Q. Public have
the right to know, anyway?"

That doesn't matter, where's the proof. Either way there has to
be some proof, and I'm betting it would be a lot easier to
disprove the secret technology hypothesis [STH] than the ETH.

The ET hypothesis doesn't sit right with you so you are going to
invent some brilliant technology that wasn't around in the 50s.
Where did it come from? Look at the early aviation technological
[I'm talking jets] development postwar II history in the states.
There is none. It was imported, from Germany and England. Now
you expect me to believe that during and before WWII there was
some secret, advanced aero technology that no one knew about in
the US?

And aircraft always crash-especially when humans are flying
them. Every model right up to the Concorde. And you _are_ wrong.
Save yourself some time and move on to a more reasonable
scenario.

If I sound trite it's because I'm tired of hearing the same old
"secret US technology" BS on this List and others. It goes no
further than the flying stovepipe SR-71, put-enough-horsepower-
on-a-barn-door-and-it will-fly, technology. Event the B-2 was a
knock-off of the earlier Northrup models and only about 300mph
faster-thanks to Kevlar and more efficient jets. Show me some
sophistication. Please.


Don Ledger









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                    Notorious Reed UFO Fraud Re-Surfaces

From: Royce J. Myers III <ufowatchdog.nul>
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 10:33:05 -0800
Fwd Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 16:54:32 -0500
Subject: Notorious Reed UFO Fraud Re-Surfaces


Believe it or not.....

http://www.ufowatchdog.com/reedreturn.html

Regards,

Royce J. Myers III
UFOWATCHDOG.COM
"Don't Trip On Your Open Mind"









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               Re: 1947 At Roswell, Corona And Other Places -

From: Greg Sandow <greg.nul>
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 14:34:11 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 16:56:27 -0500
Subject: Re: 1947 At Roswell, Corona And Other Places -


>From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 12:44:11 +0200
>Subject: Re: 1947 At Roswell, Corona And Other Places

>And the fact that some simple soldiers, among whom some cooks,
>were recruited on the spot to mount guard, does not sound like a
>strong argument [against Roswell] either. If the military police
>was alredy fully mobilised in the field, then there may have
>been some shortage of guards, and that's all there was to it.
>Please note that, according to several witnesses, they were all
>sworn to secrecy, and at least some people were rapidly
>transfered to distant bases.


I once knew a man who was a cook in the U.S. Army during World
War II. He was the father of a former girlfriend of mine.

I asked him if he'd ever been ordered to do guard duty, and he
said it happened all the time. If guards were needed, officers
would show up without warning, and pick the first enlisted men
they saw.

Skeptics could argue that they wouldn't have done that for such
a high-security matter, but that's just conjecture. We ought to
find out more about how things actually worked.


Greg Sandow








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              Re: The Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices -

From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22.nul>
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 11:36:06 -0800
Fwd Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 16:59:18 -0500
Subject: Re: The Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices -


>From: Jim Kelly <Azredant.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 20:42:47 EST
>Subject: Re: The Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices

>>From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 12:26:27 -0800
>>Subject: Re: The Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices

>>>From: Jim Kelly <Azredant.nul>
>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 13:24:12 EST
>>>Subject: Re: The Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices

<snip>

>>>You don't think that flare drops are not common worldwide? They
>>>happen on an almost daily occurrence. Just check out Peter
>>>Davenport's website.

>>>Now I will be the first to admit that not all of these sightings
>>>are not flares. Yet, how do you distinguish military flare
>>>lights or a UFO sighting?

>>Jim, you obviously don't pay attention to detail or credit
>>eyewitness testimony or even pay attention to what the spokesman
>>for the Maryland ANG stated. This is all useless argument and
>>people will just believe what they want to believe - as you do
>>about these events.

>Sorry Bill, witness testimony was all over the map on what was
>seen on March 13th. From orange to yellow, red or Amber color
>orbs, some with structure, some without, some of them stobing,
>some of them not. So which of the witness testimony reports do
>you throw out? The ones that don't agree with your theory?

No, only the ones seen around 10 PM. All amber. I don't have a
theory BTW.

>As far as the MNG stated. I know exactly what they said. I also
>know that none of the UFO investigators from Village Labs or
>MUFON Arizona asked the local Air Force involved the simple
>question of who was visiting on TDY status! IF one of you had,
>the conspiracy whack- jobs might have been silenced. But since
>some of the local investigators were clamoring for television
>and book rights, they forgot to do one important thing:

Luke AFB, in charge of the gunnery range, was asked about flares
that night on the range and they replied to an FOIA request that
they knew nothing about flares dispensed on March 13th and did
not know who started the rumor. That FOIA was filed by John
Greenawald. Sorry you missed that response.

The following note was passed to me to pass to you from Dr.
Kitei:

-----

From: drlynne.nul

Dear Jim,

I have tried to address your inquiries below in kind. I must say
that I am both surprised and disappointed that someone from a
credible UFO organization is still dwelling on the bogus "flare
theory". As my book imparts, there is a _lot_ more to the story
than just March 13.

It is time we move forward to address the REAL phenomena so we
can start educating and healing others. Wouldn't you agree?

Dr. Lynne

-----

If you decide to reply to her, please use the address given
above. I do not want to act as a go-between.


Thanks,

Bill








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              Re: BBC 'Methane Poses Mars Life Puzzle' - Bright

From: Dan Bright <ufo.nul>
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 21:13:05 +0100
Fwd Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 17:00:08 -0500
Subject: Re: BBC 'Methane Poses Mars Life Puzzle' - Bright


>From: Paul Anderson <paulanderson.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 23:41:00 -0800
>Subject: BBC 'Methane Poses Mars Life Puzzle'

>http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/3577551.stm

This article states "Scientists see two possibilities, both of
them scientifically important, but one of them is sensational."

I'd consider the confirmation of _any_ life on a planet other
than Earth (other than that which we've seeded!) to be pretty
darn sensational in it's implications. Indeed, volcanism would
also be a very significant discovery on Mars.

I'm certainly not advocating sensationalist media headlines, but
it does strike me as interesting that this story appears to have
been somewhat under-played in the media to date, when compared,
for example, to the relatively loud publicity that was afforded
to the discovery of an ancient liquid water sea.

Perhaps mainstream media are just awaiting the press conferences
before hitting the hyperbole hyperdrive. This is certainly one
to watch, and could be absolutely massive in it's implications.
Once life has been detected and confirmed on another planet, the
paradigm will have well and truly shifted.


Best to all,

Dan

--
Dan Bright
www.UFOresearch.org






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                      Commerece California Spring 1996

From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO <hbccufo.nul>
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 13:39:01 -0800
Fwd Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 17:02:17 -0500
Subject: Commerece California Spring 1996


Received: March 29, 2004

City of Commerece, California

Date: Spring of 1996
Time: 10:30 a.m.

The following happened in the Spring of 1996 in the City of
Commerece, just east of downtown Los Angeles. The weather was
cold, windy, overcast with a steady drizzle. My office was
located on the 2nd floor of a office building located in a
industrial park. My window gave me a view due north. At about
10:30 AM, a co-worker entered my office and asked if I had seen
the strange object in the sky north of our office.

I looked out the window and observed a V-shaped black object at
about 1,000 feet altitude. The object did not appear to be very
large. It was completly stationary in the sky, even though the
wind was blowing quite hard. The object appeared to morph,
changing shape so quickly that you couldn't process what it was
doing. It would always return to the V-shape after a few
seconds. To the SE of the object was a red cylinder (pipe
shaped) with an antenna array sticking out of the end facing the
V-shaped obdject. Within a few meters of the cylinder was
another cylinder. I was later told by co-workers that there were
more cylinders directly above our building. I did not go out to
observe because of the steady drizzle. These ojects were
observed for about 30 minutes when they suddenly moved upward
and to the NE in unison. Again, none of the objects swayed in
the steady wind while stationary in the sky. This incident was
observed by at least 30 people in our building. This was the
subject of discussion the next morning on a L.A. talk radio
program and an article in the Orange County Register newspaper
where witnesses described it as looking like a junkyard in the
early morning sky.We were all left with a errie lingering
feeling that we had observed something extraordinary. I have
never been able to locate any followup information on this
incident.

Thank you and keep up the great work.

Thank you to the witness for the interesting report.

Brian Vike
Director HBCC UFO Research
Home - Phone 250 845 2189
email: hbccufo.nul
Website: http://www.hbccufo.com








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                       UFO History Journal To Proceed

From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 23:03:10 +0000
Fwd Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 01:04:21 -0500
Subject: UFO History Journal To Proceed


Based on an encouraging early response to my proposed Journal of
UFO History, I have decided to proceed with bimonthly
publicaton. Subscriptions are now being offered, or a sample
copy for $5.00. Anyone wanting a revised Prospectus reflecting
this and providing ordering information can obtain one by e-
mail attachment on request.

The first issue (Vol. I , No. 1) is written and would have been
in print by now except that Murphy struck on the weekend and my
printer ink cartridge ran dry. The first copies will be mailed
out in a few days to those who paid for a sample copy.

 - Richard Hall
   Donald E. Keyhoe Archives








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              Re: BBC 'Methane Poses Mars Life Puzzle' - Hatch

From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 15:21:34 -0800
Fwd Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 01:05:42 -0500
Subject: Re: BBC 'Methane Poses Mars Life Puzzle' - Hatch


>From: Dan Bright <ufo.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 21:13:05 +0100
>Subject: Re: BBC 'Methane Poses Mars Life Puzzle'

>>From: Paul Anderson <paulanderson.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 23:41:00 -0800
>>Subject: BBC 'Methane Poses Mars Life Puzzle'

>>http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/3577551.stm

>This article states "Scientists see two possibilities, both of
them scientifically important, but one of them is sensational."

>I'd consider the confirmation of _any_ life on a planet other
than Earth (other than that which we've seeded!) to be pretty
darn sensational in it's implications. Indeed, volcanism would
also be a very significant discovery on Mars.

>I'm certainly not advocating sensationalist media headlines,
but it does strike me as interesting that this story appears to
have been somewhat under-played in the media to date, when
compared, for example, to the relatively loud publicity that was
afforded to the discovery of an ancient liquid water sea.

>Perhaps mainstream media are just awaiting the press
conferences before hitting the hyperbole hyperdrive. This is
certainly one to watch, and could be absolutely massive in it's
implications. Once life has been detected and confirmed on
another planet, the paradigm will have well and truly shifted.



Hello Dan, Paul ..

I have to agree. The ancient seas announcement was leaked in
advance with a scheduled announcement, then the headlines.

I searched in vain for news articles about the Methane matter
until it came up late, and seemingly underplayed, second page
type treatment on one of the space science news sites.

I would have shouted that as a headline, even if it doesn't
prove present day life on Mars. There is the outgassing model
for example. But, methane certainly bolsters live critter
arguments. Ancient methane would be destroyed in relatively
short order in Mars' thin harsh atmosphere for one thing, and
Mars had billions of years to exhaust its primordial gases.

Caution and scientific consensus are highly understandable in
such pronouncements, the press and public seem to go overboard
with them. Still, I perceive unequal press treatment when
comparing Ancient Seas and the Methane matter.


Best wishes

- Larry Hatch










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              Re: Notorious Reed UFO Fraud Re-Surfaces - Hatch

From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 16:03:14 -0800
Fwd Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 01:07:19 -0500
Subject: Re: Notorious Reed UFO Fraud Re-Surfaces - Hatch


>From: Royce J. Myers III <ufowatchdog.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 10:33:05 -0800
>Subject: Notorious Reed UFO Fraud Re-Surfaces

>Believe it or not.....

>http://www.ufowatchdog.com/reedreturn.html


Hello Royce:

That is amazing. Video tapes, $25 or 180 Pesos in Spanish and
English. I suppose it was easier to resurrect the old story into
a new market, than to come up with a new tale in the old one.

Do you remember the Art Bell show guest "Mel" with his famous
"Mel's Hole"?... a bottomless pit in Washington State, complete
with government coverup and a military takeover? Unlike "Doctor"
Reed, Mel somehow wore out Mel's hole, or maybe he painted
himself out of the picture inadvertently. So what's he do? He
goes out and finds _another_ one! Even Art Bell had a hard time
playing along with that. Lets see if George Noory lets Dr. Reed
on the air again.


Best

- Larry











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               Re: Methane Find On Mars May Be Sign Of Life -

From: <colsweb.nul>
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 11:03:06 +0100
Fwd Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 01:15:22 -0500
Subject: Re: Methane Find On Mars May Be Sign Of Life -


>From: Josh Goldstein <lovolution.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 03:51:21 -0800
>Subject: Re: Methane Find On Mars May Be Sign Of Life

>>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 18:05:44 +0000
>>Subject: Re: Methane Find On Mars May Be Sign Of Life

>>>From: Dan Bright <ufo.nul>
>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 15:22:53 -0000
>>>Subject: Methane Find On Mars May Be Sign Of Life

>>>Source: The Independent

>>>http://tinyurl.com/2krjq
>
>>>Methane find on Mars may be sign of life

>>>By Steve Connor, Science Editor
>>>27 March 2004

>>>A strong signal of life on Mars has been detected by scientists
>>>at the US National Aeronautics and Space Admin- istration (Nasa)
>>>and the European Space Agency.

>>>Each group has independently discovered tantalising evidence of
>>>methane in the Martian atmosphere. Methane, a waste product of
>>>living organisms on Earth, could also be a by-product of alien
>>>microbes living under the surface of the Red Planet.

>><snip>

>>Well, that explains the Martian "UFO." Swamp gas!


>I found that report fascinating. But you forgot to mention that
>with all the speculation about aliens a lot bigger than
>microbes, they may be advanced subterranean dwellers farting
>from underground along with kazillions of microbes. That may
>well be why the methane level is so high on Mars. :-)

>I was somewhat amazed that besides the good stuff on this List a
>number of people are so desparate to confirm that there are or
>were advanced lifeforms on Mars that they speculate over little
>marks on rocks or try to show lousy quality photos of Mars
>terrain designs to prove that only aliens could have made them.
>Of course George Filer is the deluded leader of that pack.

>I live in the wild west of California therefore I operate using
>frontier justice. That drives me to a frenzy that "factless
>truth speculaters" fail to start their missives saying I imagine
>that X is made by... but try to claim their fantasies as "the
>truth". Then again that applies to a great many people in our
>world who have been interested in Ufos.

>Here in Santa Cruz, CA the sherriff of surfing says "I pronounce
>that you get evidential or get out of town!. If not we will shoot
>off your woodie."


And how do we know where to look for evidence if it isn't for
the very people you attack who point us to it?

And how do we test a hypothesis if we don't have any?


Col







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              Re: Radio Search For ET Draws A Blank - Goldstein

From: Josh Goldstein <lovolution.nul>
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 04:46:43 -0800
Fwd Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 13:28:08 -0500
Subject: Re: Radio Search For ET Draws A Blank - Goldstein


>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 14:11:44 -0800
>Subject: Re: Radio Search For ET Draws A Blank

>>From: Eleanor White <eleanor.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 17:04:32 -0500
>>Subject: Re: Radio Search For ET Draws A Blank

>>>From: Joe McGonagle <joe.mcgonagle.nul>
>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 12:39:48 -0000
>>>Subject: Radio Search For ET Draws A Blank

>>>Radio search for ET draws a blank

>>I wonder if it would pay for psychics to regularly attempt to
>>scan for signs of life. Psychic signals seem much more promising
>>than conventional electromagnetic. An experiment where, say,
>>half a dozen psychics, particularly those trained in remote
>>viewing and who have demonstrated track records, might make one
>>serious attempt per week for a year, keeping their impressions
>>in confidential logs until the end of a year.

>>They might try for impressions of locations of promising
>>segments of the celestial sphere.

>>These logs could be tallied and compared at the end of the
>>year, and any promising segments referenced by two or more of
>>the psychics might then be scrutinzed more closely by radio
>>telescopes.

>>Congruencies other than location in the sky might suggest
>>further experiments.

>As a parallel experiment, with rigorous double blind controls,
>expert water dowsers could scan upwards instead of along the
>ground. By waving their dowsing sticks at the various parts of
>the night sky, and carefully recording the coordinates of any
>twitches, records could be established for the most promising
>coordinates.

>Water is the wellspring of life on this planet of course, and
>presumably elsewhere.

>After suitable results are recorded from both groups, those
>would be compared for any correlations. A third group, religious
>prophets say, could be used as a control, and/or to settle
>disputes and inconsistencies.


Hello 'ol Larry and mind manipulated sweet Eleanor,

I'd like to offer some things that would make this have a great
deal more power and a thousand times more ability to make
contact with _Them_.

1/  The psychic or the dowser should sit or lay outside in an
open space far outside of town with a beautiful view (like a
mountain top) where you are at an altitude closer to rhe stars.

2/ It is very important that this be miles away from any village
or town. You want to escape from the enemies of psychics and
dowsers. They are: cell phone towers, radio or television
transmitters, microwave emitters, non-organic foods, pasteurized
milk, no meat, eggs or seafood the rest of your life, no
artificial fabrics and no fabric dyes, no shoes or anything of
leather, no shaving, whether it be face, armpits, chests, legs
or
vagina.

3/ After meditating 12 hours a day, going to sleep at sunset and
waking before sunrise, no electricity, TV or radio for six
months (the last three must require daily coffee enemas and a
complete fast of only water then you can go to your mountain
top.

4/ Up there park in a nice grassy spot so that you can sit or
lay nude under the stars but near your car. Smoke the holy
sacramental herb if you desire.

5/ Take the required auto jumper cables, your special custom
designed kit of a lead and the instructions on how to connect
the lead to your electronic igntion. Lay those next to the front
of the car and open the hood, Connect the lead to your ignition
as instructed. Put the secret black box at the other end of the
lead on the ground. Make sure the switch is in the off position.
Place the temporal lobe trigger pad headband. Start your car.
Connect the jumper cables to the battery terminals while holding
the other ends in your hand.

6/ Once you have sat down (psychics) or have laid down on your
back blanket on the grass then clip the ends of the jumper
cables to your great toes. Switch the black box on. Get centered
and start chanting the

mantra of Nibiru with steady soft breathing.. If you are a
dowser point your dowsing rods straight up. If they are
connected to the black box You will see St. Elmo's fire start
dancing on the rods. Place the end of

the rods on your temples and you will soon see St. Elmo's fire
dancing in your brain. Do not forget to keep chanting and
breathing. Point your rods to a star or planet and the magic
will begin and you will see the light and be enlightened forever
unless you violate the no nos I told you to stop eating,
drinking, etc.

7/  A great example is pointing your rods at Mars If you hold
them extremely motionless or fixed in a jig you will be able to
see where on Mars there is more or less water. YOU CAN ONLY DO
THIS BY PURCHASING THE BLACK BOX.

8/ A WARNING TO PSYCHICS! Do not use this device more often than
once every other day except on leap years and the federal
holidays.

IT IS A VERY SHORT STEP FROM PSYCHIC TO PSYCHO1

We're selling out in two ways and the kits are flying out the
door. If you act immediately you can get this miracle kit not at
the retail price of $599.95 but we will give you two kits for
only $1150.00. You must have two so that you can share this
magical ecstacy with your wife, partner, kids, grandma or
grandpa, gay wife or husband, cellmate in prison, intrested
aliens or even your pet dog.

And we will also toss in for free the Model IV Ginzu knife plus
a signed book masterpiece channeled by our master, The Greatest
Ginzu, In the book you will see the history of the Knife
Cult.and begin to learn the teachings. by becoming a Ginzu
devotee you have the rare guft to serve at the beck and call of
the Greatest Guru, half human, half God. Your life will never be
the same ever again. You may be the lucky devotee who is chosen
by The Greatest Guru to bear the next generation Guru or Guruess
to bring light to this dark world. It is protocol to lick the
feet of the Guru as a tribute for having received such a
blessing.

Only those who have purchased two black box kits will be
eligible to be chosen by the master.

GET THEM NOW! THEY ARE RAPIDLY BEING SOLD OUT TWO AT A TIME!

Hmm, I'm in Santa Cruz, there are so many New Age wackos that it
would be relativity easy to give weekend workshop for $300,00 a
pop. I will of course play The Greatest Guru. I would easily
captivate the deluded folks, Heading north from Big Sur there is
Carmel, Monterey, Santa Cruz,, San Jose, Silicon Valley, Palo
Alto, San Francisco, Berkely, Oakland and northern California up
to Oregon. There literally are millions ready to have their
pockets.picked and become true believers, I can quickly buy that
Ferrari I lust for, a car fit for a Godman.

Damn, why was I cursed by being an honest man? I once again miss
getting wealthy. <G>The UFO field is always ripe for scams.


Bye,

Josh







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                Theology Sees ET Life As Compatible with God

From: Scott Corrales <lornis1.nul>
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 08:10:51 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 13:36:06 -0500
Subject: Theology Sees ET Life As Compatible with God




SOurce: http://Www.Eladelanto.Com/Noticias/Noticia.Asp
Date: 03/29/04

Theology Sees ET Life As Compatible with God

* Vicente Chafer says it would be an error to believe that we are alone.


Vicente Ch=E1fer yesterday at Geography and History.
Photo Cr.:Valverde


Theology considers the exstence of extraterrestrial life and
Biblical doctrine as being compatible, said theologian Vicente
Chafer yesterday.

According to his theory, "it would be a delusion of grandeur to
think that we are alone in the universe," adding that the Bible
"already speaks of other inhabited worlds, but does not explain
them as it is centered on terrestrial life."

Chafer has adapted Catholic doctrine to scientific and space
discoveries having to do with the universe and acknowledges the
existence of over " 200,000 galaxies, each containing over
100,000 suns. We are but a mote of dust in this inmensity," he
says.

MATHEMATICS: By sheer probabilty calculations it would be safer
to think that there is life on other planets than to state the
contrary, but until now, the closest thing to evidence which
 allows for this hypothesis is the UFO phenomenon. Chafer
points out that an advanced civilization equipped with
spacecraft enabling it to cross intergalactic distances (the
nearest star to our own is four years awaya traveling at the
speed of light -- 300,000 kilometers per second) "wouldn't
trouble itself to fly by, create uncertainty and vanish without
further ado." Furthermore -- according to his beliefs -- the
devil and sin are confined to the Earth, while the resto of the
worlds would be free of both, as the Bible states. Therefore,
such beings would not be interested in contacting us, if only to
avoid "contagion".

These reasons lead Chafer to believe that most UFO sightings and
manifestations are false, and only 20 per cent of them deserve
further study. But he cuttingly declares that said beings would
not be from another planet, and that their existence would be
better justified believing in the figure of the devil, who has
created them "to give us the hope that UFOs will take us to
other, uncontaminated worlds rather than believing in the gospel
of Christ."

The theologion is convinced that pure souls now dwelling in
Catholic heaven shall return to Earth when the presence of both
sin and the devil have been removed, since the former "no longer
has access to other worlds."

------------------------------------

Translation (c) 2004. Scott Corrales
Institute of Hispanic Ufology (IHU)
Special thanks to Jose I. Gomez










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                            Havoc In The Heavens

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 06:33:21 -0800
Fwd Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 21:10:39 -0500
Subject: Havoc In The Heavens



Source: Space.com

http://www.space.com/news/mystery_monday_040329.html

29 March 2004

Havoc in the Heavens: Soviet-Era Satellite's Leaky Reactor's
Lethal Legacy
By Leonard David
Senior Space Writer

Old Soviet nuclear powered satellites leaked a trail of menacing
radioactive droplets that have become a debris threat to other
spacecraft.

Tiny spheres of liquid sodium-potassium (NaK) reactor coolant
dripped from the former Soviet Union�s radar ocean
reconnaissance satellites, known as RORSATs. This class of
satellite -- no longer launched -- carried a nuclear reactor to
power a large radar dish that enabled day/night snooping of
Earth�s oceans.

After a RORSATs tour-of-duty was over, the reactor�s fuel core
was shot high above Earth into a "disposal orbit". Once at that
altitude the power supply unit would take several hundred years
before it reentered the Earth�s atmosphere.

However, in ejecting the core from the main body of a RORSAT, a
plumbing problem plagued the satellite design. Faulty seals
permitted the NaK coolant to leak, leaving thouands upon
thousands of droplets to spill freely in to space.

Hazard to spacecraft

RORSATs were orbited by the Soviets starting in 1967 and stopped
in 1988.

There is evidence from ground-based radar measurements that 16
of a total of 31 RORSAT nuclear reactors orbited lost coolant
following core ejection into disposal orbits.

Paula Krisko, a space debris specialist working for Lockheed
Martin at NASA�s Johnson Space Center (JSC) in Houston, Texas,
noted in a recent newsletter dedicated to orbital debris
research that the NaK droplets have been observed over the last
decade.

Not only have the spheres come under scrutiny by several NASA
radars, Krisko explained, they were also found to have dinged
the Long Duration Exposure Facility, better known in NASA lingo
as LDEF. This school bus-sized spacecraft floated through space
for well over 5 years before being plucked from orbit and
returned to Earth by shuttle Columbia in 1990.

Krisko explained that a study of the NaK coolant droplets
circling Earth, floating about in varying sizes, is estimated to
be 110,000 to over 115,000 in number.

"This population represents an orbital debris hazard to
spacecraft in low Earth orbit," she stated.

Radar studies

Credited with first flagging the Soviet leaking reactor problem
was Don Kessler. He has over 40 years of experience in the
scientific study of human-made space trash, a large chunk of
that time spent at the NASA JSC delving into the problem of
space debris.

Kessler is now an orbital debris and meteoroid consultant in
Asheville, North Carolina.

There has been a significant change in the RORSAT story since
Kessler and his colleagues first reported the problem in 1995.
"It is now accepted by all, even by the Russians, as being
correct and is now part of all orbital debris models," he said.

NASA's main source in spotting the drifting droplets was the
Haystack radar. That facility is operated by Massachusetts
Institute of Technology�s (MIT) Lincoln Laboratory and has been
collecting orbital-debris data for NASA since 1990 under an
agreement with the U.S. Air Force.

Kessler led the effort to discover the cause of an abnormally
high concentration of objects that was detected by the Haystack
radar.  These small objects were zipping about the Earth between
roughly 530 miles (850 kilometer) and 620 miles (1,000
kilometer) altitude.

Something strange going on

"Our first clue that something strange was going on," Kessler
said, was the high concentration of objects near 600 miles (900
kilometers) above Earth. That intensity of objects could not be
explained by an explosion, which would have dispersed the debris
over a larger altitude range, he added.

"The concentration was so high that, whatever the source, it
represented the most significant impact hazard for spacecraft
operating at those altitudes... and still does today," Kessler
said.

Early work involved techniques using the Haystack radar to
sample the environment by simply counting objects as they passed
through the radar beam. The advantage of this was that
researchers were able to statistically sample the environment of
much smaller objects, Kessler explained. Altitude and radial
velocity of the droplets could be accurately measured. But only
rough measurements of motion direction and size of the objects
could be ascertained, he said.

Stare and chase

The final proof came when NASA asked MIT to develop a "stare-
and-chase" procedure where they could track some of the larger
objects long enough to develop orbits.

"We used all this information, plus other sources of
information, to determine the source," Kessler said. That source
of spheres made of NaK coolant was found to come from the
seeping RORSATs, he said.

Kessler told SPACE.com that follow-on NASA work has pegged the
total mass of leaked NaK as over 360 pounds (165 kilograms) --
 greater than he had orginally estimated.

A report on the RORSAT leakage in 1997, led by Alessandro Rossi,
a researcher at the Centro Nazionale Universitario di Calcolo
Elettronico (Electronic National University Center for
Calculation) in Pisa, Italy, pointed out another issue.

Rossi stated that, although the NaK coolant leakage may have
been confined to a specific class of satellite no longer
launched, "the probability that a debris impact might puncture
the radiator of one of the RORSATs still in graveyard orbit,
inducing a new leak from the secondary cooling circuit, is far
from negligible."

Well-defined and publicized

"The issue has been well-defined and publicized," said Nicholas
Johnson, Program Manager and Chief Scientist at the NASA JSC�s
Orbital Debris Program Office.

There is a large population of NaK droplets primarily around 560
miles (900 kilometers) altitude above Earth, Johnson explained.
Some of the largest of these are in the roughly 2 inches to 3
inches (5 to 7 centimeters) diameter category. They have been
cataloged by the U.S. Space Surveillance Network and are
routinely tracked, he said.

The vast majority of the droplets are smaller, down to less than
an inch in diameter, Johnson said. "They are not decaying
rapidly, although some very small particles have reached lower
Earth orbits."

Johnson told SPACE.com that "they pose potential mechanical
damage to other spacecraft, just as more conventional debris of
the same size."

Radioactive droplets?

There is one added element to the RORSAT reactor coolant saga.
Are those droplets radioactive?

Any object, large or small -- a paint fleck or a tiny
radioactive sphere -- whizzing about Earth at high speed is
troublesome to both piloted and automated spacecraft.
Furthermore, eventually those NaK spheres will nose-dive into
the upper atmosphere.

There is no doubt that the NaK coolant was radioactive when a
RORSAT was running, said Gerald Kulcinski, associate dean for
research in the College of Engineering and a professor of
nuclear engineering at the University of Wisconsin at Madison.
In the process, both Sodium-24 and another isotope, Argon-39
would have been created, he said.

While the radioactive Sodium-24 is short-lived, any Argon-39
released would have a half-life of 270 years, Kulcinski noted.

That being said, however, just how much of that Argon-39
radioactive isotope is encapsulated within a space-frozen NaK
coolant droplet is not immediately clear, Kulcinski added.
Specific engineering details of how the RORSAT reactor was
designed and functioned would be required. Yet another unknown
factor is what impurities could have been resident within the
NaK coolant, he said.

Runaway threshold

The NaK droplets represent only the "short-term" issue, Kessler
said. He underscored another concern -- terming it a "runaway
threshold". That is, collisions in space would increasingly
produce large quantities of smaller debris over the next 50
years or so.

"Since we began looking, we have measured debris not only from
sources like the NaK, but from solid rocket motors that eject
large amounts of centimeter-to-micron-size objects, paint flecks
from painted spacecraft surfaces, copper needles from U.S. Air
Force communication tests, and more fragments than expected from
explosions in space," Kessler said.

"In the long-term, debris resulting from collisions is still the
major problem, and will be the most expensive to control,"
Kessler said. "We are on the threshold, if we have not already
exceeded it, of reaching a �critical density� of objects in low
Earth orbit, where collisional fragmentation will cause the
debris environment to slowly grow even if all other sources are
eliminated."










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   Mar > Mar 30

             Re: BBC 'Methane Poses Mars Life Puzzle' - Stanford

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 10:44:02 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 21:54:03 -0500
Subject: Re: BBC 'Methane Poses Mars Life Puzzle' - Stanford


To NASA Concerning Martian Methane,
a completely spontaneous :) evocation,
by Ray Stanford:


Dispense with your doubting,
In faith take a dive,
'Cause if Mars is farting,
You can bet it's alive!


Sorry, NASA, but your reticence is real gasser! As you have long
said, the Martian volcanoes are dead (so, no methane from them),
but now it seems that on Mars, "The hills are alive, with the
sound of..." (Due credit and apologies to Richard Rodgers and
Oscar Hammerstein II.)

Well, at least, make that the valleys, canyons, ravines, and
certain polar-adjacent areas?








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              Re: Radio Search For ET Draws A Blank - Dickenson

From: Ray Dickenson <editor.nul>
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 17:30:47 +0100
Fwd Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 22:20:33 -0500
Subject: Re: Radio Search For ET Draws A Blank - Dickenson


>From: Eleanor White <eleanor.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 17:04:32 -0500
>Subject: Re: Radio Search For ET Draws A Blank

>>From: Joe McGonagle <joe.mcgonagle.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 12:39:48 -0000

>>Radio search for ET draws a blank

>I wonder if it would pay for psychics to regularly attempt to
>scan for signs of life. Psychic signals seem much more
>promising than conventional electromagnetic.

Probably better doing that Eleanor, than relying on
seeing/hearing radio or light - electro-magnetic signals.

"A civilization very much more advanced than we will be engaged
in a busy communications traffic with its peers; but not with
us, and not via technologies accessible to us." - from
"Communication with Extraterrestrial Intelligence" - by Carl
Sagan (ed.) 1973 p. 366

and

"Communication is a universal, but the use of radio is a
parochial, when we go out into the Galaxy... a radio signal will
be about as useful as a smoke signal. Communication evolves" -
from "Evolving the Alien" - by Profs. Jack Cohen & Ian Stewart,
2002. ISBN 0-09-187927-2

What else could we be trying? See:

http://www.perceptions.couk.com/uef/setigift2.html

And maybe:

http://www.perceptions.couk.com/uef/wb2.html

where evidence seems to suggest big Gov't already knows
something about it.

The answer may not be _too_ far away (technically) from that
"psychic" methodology.


Cheers
Ray D

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Perceptions" http://www.perceptions.couk.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~







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                           Secrecy News - 03/30/04

From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood.nul>
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 13:01:33 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 22:26:30 -0500
Subject: Secrecy News - 03/30/04


SECRECY NEWS
from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy
Volume 2004, Issue No. 31
March 30, 2004


**      NSA EXTENDS BUDGET SECRECY
**      NSA DECLASSIFICATION ACTIVITY
**      RAND: GOVT WEB SITES OF LITTLE USE TO TERRORISTS
**      CRS ON TESTIMONY FROM WHITE HOUSE ADVISERS


NSA EXTENDS BUDGET SECRECY

Prior to the Bush Administration, the budget levels for signals
intelligence at the National Security Agency became unclassified
as they turned 25 years old.

But early in 2001, carried along by the new tide of official
secrecy, the NSA determined that even this limited degree of
historical budget accountability was excessive and had to be
reversed.

"Previously, SIGINT resource information was UNCLASSIFIED if the
information was 25 years or older but SECRET if less than 25
years old. It is now SECRET for all timeframes," according to a
February 12, 2001 NSA policy decision obtained by Secrecy News.

Likewise, "Previously, the total personnel strength of the
cryptologic community... was UNCLASSIFIED if the information was
25 years or older but CONFIDENTIAL if less than 25 years old. It
is now CONFIDENTIAL for all timeframes," according to another
policy decision of the same date.

These and other changes to NSA classification policy as of 2001
were itemized in an annex to the NSA classification manual,
released in redacted form this week under the Freedom of
Information Act. See:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/othergov/nsa/changes01.pdf

Still, historical NSA budget information of the kind now deemed
"classified" by the National Security Agency may be found, for
example, here (thanks to David Barrett):

http://www.fas.org/sgp/othergov/dia-nsa1972.pdf


NSA DECLASSIFICATION ACTIVITY

Even as they extended the secrecy of the total number of SIGINT
personnel indefinitely, officials at the National Security
Agency in 2001 simultaneously declassified the number of
civilian and military personnel who work at NSA headquarters at
Fort Meade, MD.

Why?

Because the Bush Administration's NSA Transition Team asked them
to, in response to a request from the Maryland congressional
delegation.

Furthermore, "it is in NSA's best interests to declassify basic
civilian personnel figures in order to be able to advocate more
effectively for NSA," according to an internal NSA memorandum
dated January 19, 2001 obtained by Secrecy News.

In other words, in this case classification and declassification
were political decisions, not national security decisions.

Another internal NSA document from April 2001 elaborated on the
purely political drivers behind such classification actions.

NSA officials, it said, were "under pressure to declassify the
numbers of military personnel at NSA. They are not under
pressure to declassify any other numbers (e.g., number of
military personnel living in Maryland or the total number of
contractors employed at NSA), so those items remain classified."

It was a simple political calculation. But it had nothing to do
with national security. See:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/othergov/nsa/personnel.pdf

See related NSA declassification policy memoranda, released in
redacted form, here:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/othergov/nsa/index.html


RAND: GOVT WEB SITES OF LITTLE USE TO TERRORISTS

In recent years, government agencies have removed whole
libraries of information from their web sites based on a vague
presentiment that the information could be used by terrorists.
 But this thoughtless resort to secrecy was unjustified, judging
from a new RAND Corporation study.

"In the wake of the Sept. 11, 2001 terrorist attacks in the
United States, questions were raised about whether the federal
government makes geospatial information" - such as maps and
imagery - "so readily available that terrorists and other
potential enemies could exploit this information to plan new
attacks. Because of this concern, many federal agencies began
restricting some of their publicly available geospatial
information, particularly information accessible through the
Internet."

But "RAND researchers... found no publicly accessible federal
geospatial information deemed critical to meeting attackers'
information needs," according to a March 25 news release.

"Although publicly available geospatial information on federal
Web sites and in federal databases could potentially help
terrorists select and locate a target, attackers are likely
to need more detailed and current information - better
acquired from direct observation or other sources, according
to the RAND study. These other sources include textbooks,
non-government Web sites, trade journals and street maps."

RAND noted that "Public access to this vast quantity of
federal geospatial information has many benefits for the
nation."

"For example, the information is used to assist law enforcement
agencies, advance scientific knowledge, inform people about
environmental risks, help communities prepare and respond to
natural disasters and other emergencies, create more accurate
maps, assist economic development efforts, and help a wide array
of government agencies do their jobs more effectively."

In order to preserve such benefits, RAND called for a reasoned
analytical process, rather than a knee-jerk response, to
evaluate and address the risks associated with particular
information.

"Our study suggests that decisionmakers need to use an
analytical process for identifying sensitive geospatial
information because no 'one size fits all' set of guidelines is
likely to work," according to John Baker, lead author of the
RAND report, which was prepared for the National Geospatial
Intelligence Agency.

See "Mapping the Risks: Assessing the Homeland Security
Implications of Publicly Available Geospatial Information," RAND
Corporation, March 25 (flagged by www.resourceshelf.com) here:

http://www.rand.org/publications/MG/MG142/


CRS ON TESTIMONY FROM WHITE HOUSE ADVISERS

The history of presidential advisers testifying before Congress,
or refusing to do so, was helpfully summarized two years ago in
a report by the Congressional Research Service.

Soon it will have to be updated to include the political
pirouette of national security adviser Condoleezza Rice who, it
was announced today, will testify, after all, before the 9-11
Commission.

See "Presidential Advisers' Testimony Before Congressional
Committees: A Brief Overview" by Harold C. Relyea and Jay R.
Shampansky, April 5, 2002:

http://www.fas.org/irp/crs/RL31351.pdf

Congressional leaders oppose direct public access to CRS
reports like this one.




_______________________________________________
Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the
Federation of American Scientists.

To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to
secrecy_news-request.nul
with "subscribe" in the body of the message.

OR email your request to saftergood.nul

Secrecy News is archived at:
http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html

_______________________
Steven Aftergood
Project on Government Secrecy
Federation of American Scientists
web:  www.fas.org/sgp/index.html
email: saftergood.nul
voice: (202) 454-4691






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   Mar > Mar 30

                       UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 9 Number 13

From: John Hayes <webmaster.nul>
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 20:12:20 +0100
Fwd Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 22:31:59 -0500
Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 9 Number 13


Posted on behalf of Joseph Trainor.

<Masinaigan.nul>
==========================

      UFO ROUNDUP
Volume 9, Number 13
March 31, 2004
Editor: Joseph Trainor

E-mail: Masinaigan.nul
Website: http://www.ufoinfo.com/roundup/


PREHISTORIC OCEAN
FOUND ON MARS

      "A salty sea once existed on the surface of Mars, an
environment that could have supported early life on the
Red Planet, NASA scientists announced Tuesday," March 23,
2004.
      "'We think (the rover) Opportunity is now parked on
the shoreline of a salty sea on Mars,' says Steve Squyres
of Cornell University, lead scientist of NASA's twin-rover
Mars mission."
      "The Opportunity rover uncovered evidence of the
ancient body of water in a bedrock outcrop surrounding its
landing site in a crater."
      "Uneven deposits of salts in the outcrop and 'cross-
bedding' of rock layers unmistakably show water currents--
gentle one-mile-per hour ones--laid down the bedrock
layers at an undetermined point in Mars' past, Squyres
said."
      "The rover team had reported three weeks ago that
water once saturated the bedrock, but scientists had not
been certain until now that open water once existed at the
crater.  'This dramatic confirmation of standing water in
Mars' history builds on a progression of discoveries about
that most Earth-like of alien planets,' says Ed Weller,
NASA space science chief."
      "'This result gives us impetus to expand our
ambitious program of exploring Mars to learn whether
microbes have ever lived there and, ultimately, whether we
can.'"
      "Opportunity and its twin sister, Spirit, which is on
the other side of the planet, landed in January (2004).
The $820 million rovers were sent to look for clues in
rocks and soil to the Martian history of water.  Water is
thought to be necessary for life to have ever existed on
Mars."
      "Mars is a desert planet.  It is notable for dust
storms, freezing temperatures and a thin carbon dioxide
atmosphere."
      "But the mission's findings thus far suggest that
billions of years ago, water flowed on the then-young
planet.  This could have given microbial life a chance to
arise, some scientists say."
      "The team delayed its latest results by two weeks so
that six outside scientists could review the findings."
      "'I'm convinced.  It's very compelling geologic
evidence,' says Melissa Lane of the Planetary Science
Institute in Tucson," Arizona, "an outside scientist who
was not part of the NASA review team."
      "The rovers' instruments detect traces of iron in
their search for minerals rusted by water.  Neither rover
can detect organic materials or microbe fossils left
behind by living organisms."
      "Opportunity left its crater on Monday," March 22,
2004 "to explore the Meridiani Planum plain, overcoming
slippery sand to make its exit."  (See USA Today for March
24, 2004, "Traces of long-lost 'salty sea' found on Mars,"
page 1A.)
(Editor's Comment: UFO Roundup would like to offer a
posthumous Nostradamus Award to science-fiction author Lin
Carter (1930-1988).  Lin predicted the existence of
prehistoric seas on Mars in his 1967 novel, The Flame of
Iridar.)


UFOs SIGHTED IN THE
LAKE SUPERIOR REGION

      "Ellen Pfeiffer of Ironwood (population 6,293)," in
Michigan's Upper Peninsula, "called the Globe to say she
and a friend had seen the bright light reported by a
Kimball, Wisconsin man as an unidentified flying object
Sunday evening," March 21, 2004.
      "Pfeiffer said she and Darlene Korhonen were coming
out of the Pioneer Park Apartments around 6:15 p.m. when
they saw something in the sky that was neither a star nor
an airplane."
      "'It was absolutely awesome,' Pfeiffer said, 'I never
saw anything so bright.  We couldn't figure out what it
was.'"
      "Forrest Wiedbrauk of Kimball, Wisconsin told the
Iron County Sheriff's Department that he had seen 12
bright lights over his house.  The lights turned orange,
and the craft took off over the house, according to the
report."
      On Friday, March 12, 2004, eyewitness M.N. "was
driving eastward on Wellington Street in Sault Sainte
Marie, Ontario, Canada," at the southeastern end of Lake
Superior.  "As I came to the central part of the city
(known to us residents of the Lake Superior region as
"Soo, Canada"--J.T.), I noticed a straight beam of light
hovering in the early morning sky" around 4 a.m. "from the
top of the hill that was on my northern side."
      "My vehicle came to a complete stop at a cross
street, and I looked all the way down to the end of the
street (7 blocks away--M.N.) because the street ends at
the base of the hill and has a metal stairwell leading to
McDonald Avenue."
      "Although being 7 blocks away, my eyes were able to
focus on a little dark figure that was standing very
still.  This caught my curiosity, and, as I slowly drove
towards it, it started moving from side to side with fluid
movements, as if it was hovering in mid-air.  It moved as
if it was confused, or afraid, and didn't know what to
do."
      "As I got closer, the figure's appearance seemed to
have metamorphosed into a transparent, shadow-like entity
that very swiftly flew up the stairs.  To my astonishment,
the beam of light that I had seen in the sky a few minutes
ago, and a couple of miles away, was now at the top of the
hill, only about 100 feet (30 meters) away."
      "With my heart racing and blood pumping, I drove as
fast as I could eastward along the base of the hill until
I came to the nearest hill street and drove up McDonald
Avenue to see what was happening.  In a matter of seconds,
travelling from the bottom to the top of the hill, I
arrived at the top of the steps only to find three circle-
shaped burn markings on the pavement of the street."
      "Approximately 10 seconds later, I heard a very weird
kind of gunshot sound, looked up to the sky and saw a
bright light shooting up into the stars.  As I was
watching the spectacle, a surreal kind of peaceful feeling
came upon me, and it felt as if every hair on my body were
standing on end.  The feeling only lasted for what felt
like 30 seconds, but when I looked at my watch, it was a
good 40 minutes later."
      "I drove home in astonishment and only told a very
few good friends.  Since that night, I have heard other
accounts of some kind of bright light hovering across the
summit of that hill very slowly, with a beam of light
shining down from it."  (See the Ironwood, Mich. Globe for
March 24, 2004, "A confirmation on the UFO."  Many thanks
to Jim Hickman for this newspaper article.  The Soo
encounter was an Email Form Report.)


UFOs REPORTED IN OHIO

      On Thursday, March 11, 2004, a witness in Clifton,
Ohio "reported a high 'star-like' object that had unusual
brightness, thought at first to be a satellite traversing
a good portion of the sky at a routine clip until the
object undertook a 90-degree banking maneuver.  Size of
the object was 'star-like.'  No sound heard.  Viewed about
straight overhead," and its final direction of departure
was to the northwest.
      "The object was seen near the intersection of Vestry
and Straight Streets near the Deaconness Hospital" in
Clifton.
      On Wednesday, March 17, 2004, at 7:02 p.m., the
witness was outdoors in Dillonvale, Ohio (population 781),
a town on Route 152 about 15 miles (25 kilometers) north
of Wheeling, West Virginia, when he saw a UFO.  He
reported, "I, my son and a friend witnessed a very large
black object hovering in the eastern sky, approximately 45
degrees due east.  The object was at 2,000 to 3,000 feet
(600 to 900 meters)" in altitude, "hovering still with the
breaks in the passing low-level clouds we had last night.
For about two minutes in duration, the object was
perfectly still (as I could see the passing clouds
moving), and then it slowly moved due east and, within 30
seconds, disappeared into the clouds around 30 degrees
above the horizon.  There were no lights whatsoever on the
object, and the object made no sound."
      "Judging from where I was viewing the object," the
witness added, "I would guesstimate that it was directly
over the Kenwood Mall/Madeira area and moved due east
after that."  (Many thanks to Ohio ufologist Kenny Young
for these reports.)


THREE UFOs SIGHTED IN
HERTFORDSHIRE, UK

      On Friday, March 19, 2004, at 11:45 p.m., eyewitness
R.A. was outdoors in Codicote, Hertfordshire, UK when she
saw "three UFOs hovering in the same area.  There were
three objects in the sky" with an "oval shape and silver
colour.  One object was circling, and the other two were
sort of chasing each other."
      "The one that was circling was not moving very fast,
but the two that were chasing each other were moving
fairly fast.  I observed these objects for 10 to 15
minutes.  The sighting took place in the village of
Codicote, and the objects stayed in the same area."
      "When I first saw these objects, I thought they might
be the lights of a car reflecting in the sky, but, when no
car went past, I thought it strange.  So I ignored it.
When I looked, I believed it to be a strobe light, but
there was not a beam coming from the ground."
      "I asked my boss to take a look, and he agreed with
me that it was not a strobe light or car lights.  We
looked for a little while longer and then went home.  He
got his daughter to take a look.  He also got his video
camera and took a recording, but because the camera is
old," the image "has not come out that well."  (Many
thanks to Canadian ufologist Brian Vike for this report.)


UFO HOVERS OVER THE
RIO DE LA PLATA

      "An unidentified flying object was reported this
morning," Saturday, March 27, 2004, "in the vicinity of
the coastal highway" near Buenos Aires, the capital of
Argentina.
      "Several eyewitnesses claim having seen a luminous
object that changed colors incessantly and flew slowly
over the Rio de la Plata," a broad estuary between Buenos
Aires and Montevideo, the capital of neighboring Uruguay.
      "Subsequently, a witness claimed having seen it over
the town of Morin" in eastern Argentina.
      Earlier in the week, on Monday, March 22, 2004, "an
unidentified flying object that 'shone and swirled'
hovered for a few minutes over the waters of the Rio de la
Plata not far from the shoreline of Buenos Aires,
according to the Fuerzas Aereas Argentineras (FAA or
Argentinian Air Force--J.T.), which received several
accounts from eyewitnesses who phoned in their reports."
      "Air Commodore Guillermo Losada, press officer for
the FAA, confirmed that 'several phone calls' were
received, which alerted them to the presence of the UFO.
He added that their existence could not be officially
confirmed 'through the air traffic controllers or through
any pilot testimony' since there were no flights in the
vicinity at the time."
      "'There has apparently been some sort of sighting,
but we cannot confirm the type of object seen,' added
Losada."  (Muchas gracias a Scott Corrales y Gloria
Coluchi para estas noticias.)


CHUPACABRA KILLS 20 HENS
IN SAN RAMON, COSTA RICA

      "Several groups of dead hens were bled dry in the
backyard of the Rodriguez household."
      "A nocturnal Chupacabra attack took place last
Tuesday night," March 16, 2004, "in a chicken coop owned
by Gonzalo Rodriguez of barrio San Juan (neighborhood) of
San Ramon, Ajuela province, Costa Rica."
      "Nearly 20 beautiful plump hens--the type that take
pride in laying large eggs--were found dead and without a
trace of blood, bearing twin puncture marks on their
backs.  The birds were completely dry."
      "It was late at night when Rodriguez heard strange
noises and a ruckus coming from the henhouse on his
property--a commotion that was far from being normal.  He
decided to send his son to check with a flashlight (torch
in UK and Australia--J.T.), to make sure chicken thieves
weren't at work."
      "The youth obeyed his father and, flashlight in hand,
approached the huge henhouse stealthily, becoming
terrified upon seeing a strange black animal some 40
centimeters (15 inches) tall and resembling a small dog
with a long tail and standing on two legs.  He recalls,
from what little he was able to see through the
flashlight's beam, that the animal had a very long tongue.
Upon seeing the light, the creature fled into the
vegetation, skillfully leaping over a wall."
      "An investigation of the henhouse revealed that 20
hens had been slain.  Police authorities of the nearby
town of San Ramon were notified, and Officer Marcos
Hernandez reported to the scene to corroborate not only
Gonzalo Rodriguez's account but the testimony of
frightened neighbors."
      "The officer was able to ascertain that several
'bunches' of dead hens lay near the property's fence.  The
birds were whole, and the only sign of damage to them was
two small holes on the back, through which is presumed
that the strange assailant drove its fangs to remove or
suck their blood."
      "Witnesses immediately ascribed the blame for the
chicken slayings to the legendary, sinister and mysterious
creature known throughout Central America as the
Chupacabra."
      "What occurred two nights ago at the Rodriguez
household was immediately associated with an earlier,
similar event, in which dead sheep have been found with
the same characteristics: twin puncture marks on their
necks or back and not a single drop of blood."
      "Neighbors have rejected the possibility that a
weasel, a wolf or a hen-killing predator such as a fox
could be considered.  What startled them most is that
formerly one or two hens would vanish--now 20 did so at
the same time."  (See the newspaper Extra of San Jose de
Costa Rica for March 18, 2004, "Chupacabra exanguinates
hens in San Ramon."  Muchas gracias a Scott Corrales y
Gloria Coluchi para esto articulo de diario.)


      Well, that's it for this week.  Join us in seven days
for more UFO, Fortean and paranormal news from around the
planet Earth--nd occasionally, Mars--brought to you by
"the paper that goes home--UFO Roundup."  See you then.

UFO ROUNDUP: Copyright 2004 by Masinaigan Productions, all
rights reserved.  Readers may post news items from UFO
Roundup on their Web sites or in news groups provided that
they credit the newsletter and its editor by name and list
the date of issue in which the item first appeared.

E-Mail Reports to: Joseph Trainor <Masinaigan.nul>
or use the Sighting Report Form at:

http://www.ufoinfo.com/forms/form_sighting.htm

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   Mar > Mar 30

                     Why I Support Alien Abduction Study

From: Nick Pope <nick.nul>
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 23:39:09 +0100
Fwd Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 22:33:17 -0500
Subject: Why I Support Alien Abduction Study


List,

Over recent months I've posted a few times on the subject of the
study into the alien abduction phenomenon being carried out by
psychologists at Goldsmiths College, University of London.

Given the fact that Professor Chris French (a confessed sceptic
on the ETH) is undertaking this study, some people have
expressed surprise that I've commended this project and actively
encouraged abductees and experiencers to take part. I wanted to
explain my thinking on this. There are three main reasons why I
support this initiative.

Firstly, whatever Chris French's personal views, he and his team
are being scrupulous so far as methodology and protocols are
concerned. He's consulted with parapsychologists, ufologists and
experiencers. Witness confidentiality is paramount, and
participants can use pseudonyms if they wish.

Secondly, ufologists often complain that scientists don't take
an interest in UFOs or alien abductions. I believe it would send
the wrong message if ufologists complain about one of the rare
occasions when the scientific community is taking an interest.
This is, after all, proper science. Data collected from
abductees will be compared with data from a control sample
matched on such factors as gender and age. The intention is to
publish the results in scientific journals.

Thirdly, I believe that taking part in this study will be
beneficial for the abductees and experiencers concerned. A
common factor in alien abduction reports is the loss of control.
Setting aside judgement on the true nature of the phenomenon, be
it physical or psychological, those involved feel disempowered.
Feedback I've had from participants suggests they feel
empowered, and welcome the opportunity to be proactive as
opposed to reactive.

The original timescales for the study have slipped a little, and
there's still time for people to get involved. UK-based
abductees and experiencers wishing to take part, or wanting
further information, should contact Julia Santomauro. You can
email her at apru.nul or telephone her on 020 7919 7171,
extension 4389.


Best wishes,

Nick Pope








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   Mar > Mar 31

                      Radio Show Airs Alien Encounters

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 08:42:09 -0800
Fwd Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 10:42:45 -0500
Subject: Radio Show Airs Alien Encounters



Source: The Palm Beach Post

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/accent/content/auto/epaper/editions/wednesday/a=
ccent_04969bfde471f0c700a8.html

March 31, 2004

Radio show airs alien encounters

By Eliot Kleinberg, Palm Beach Post Staff Writer


The caller was a pilot 30,000 feet over Area 51, the mysterious
Nevada military base that allegedly holds crashed UFOs. The
radio host urged him to turn back. The pilot reported an F-16
military jet was heading his way.

"It looks like some kind of ray gun is coming up from the
ground. It has a weird-looking barrel, like a light. Oh, God.
They're shooting at me. I'm going in."

Then dead air.

Did it happen?

Debunkers to the contrary, millions of people listen to Coast to
Coast AM, a syndicated radio program that airs on some 500
stations in North America. It's broadcast in the dead of night,
for the people who believe, and the people who maybe wonder just
a little, and the people who just can't get to sleep.

Listeners are linked in a worldwide electronic slumber party,
complete with ghost tales and psychics and angel sightings and
aliens over the World Trade Center.

On one recent show:

=95 A man identified at least three "portals" to other dimensions
and times -- two in California and one in Arizona -- but gave no
exact locations. At one, he said, "I could have sworn I saw
sandal feet there, and then I heard a voice saying, -- almost
right behind me, made me jump -- 'Do you want to come through?'
I said, no I didn't."

=95 An e-mailer saw ghosts in the basement of his grandfather's
St. Louis house and later awoke to find them encircling his bed;
in the morning, he said, his mirror was cracked, and "I had
scratch marks all over my arms in the shape of human
fingernails."

=95 And a lady in Winnipeg, Canada, had a girlfriend who regularly
talks to the dead, by appointment, explaining, "She'll tell you
something only the two of you would have done together."

Host plays along

Host George Noory often grills callers for more details and
clucks in amazement at their stories, offering "my gosh,"
"that's weird" and "what an unbelievable story."

What you won't hear him say is, "You're nuts."

"It's not my responsibility," Noory said in a telephone
interview.

"Do I believe every story that comes into Coast to Coast? No,"
he said. "When you listen to some of these stories, a lot of
them could be concocted, far-fetched. But a lot of them also
give you that ability to just doubt."

If someone calls to say he's captured an alien, Noory said: "I
tell him, 'Send me the picture.' I've never gotten a picture.
But I'm not going to belittle him on the air."

Noory, a broadcaster for 33 years, replaced Art Bell, who
created the show in 1993. It was Bell, who lives within sight of
Area 51, who fielded the call from the alleged ill-fated
interloper. Bell mysteriously left the show for two weeks in
1998; he later revealed his 16-year-old son had been kidnapped
and raped in 1997 by a substitute teacher. He then left again
briefly in 2000 after being falsely accused of child
molestation. When Bell retired for good in January 2003, Noory,
a late-night talk host in St. Louis and Bell's backup since
April 2001, took over. He does the show from Southern
California. Bell still hosts weekend shows from Nevada.

The show's Web site is loaded with material from its guests and
supporters, and contains much of the usual paranormal bulletin-
board items:

A "Dr. Joseph M" got his hands on an alleged "Top Secret" CIA
memo that says the "problem of death and dying has been
conquered permanently." An X-ray of a spine showed the ghostly
image of an alien's face. And a mysterious glow was reported in
the Topanga Canyon near Los Angeles (others later wrote in that
it was the launch of a Minuteman missile from nearby Vandenburg
Air Force Base).

One entry showed what the correspondent said was a mysterious
flying object he saw attached to a commercial jet flying over
West Palm Beach on Dec. 15, 2002. The entry said that "local
news made a small blurb about it," but a check has found no
published reports. An e-mail to the correspondent bounced back,
and his name was not found on a national database.

The show publishes a newsletter called After Dark that it says
"satisfies seekers of the weird, the unexplainable and the
supernatural -- in even more detail than the radio show. Plus,
After Dark dares to explore, in-depth, today's alternative
worlds of health, medicine, and spirituality. And much, much
more."

Order the newsletter for a year for $40 and get a CD of
interviews with, and a four-page biography of, Malachi Martin, a
former Jesuit priest and a prominent exorcist who died in 1999
and whose writings suggested the Vatican had become either a
corporate stooge of Communists or a cohort of Satan.

'They believe everything'

Noory, raised a Catholic, said he questions the mysteries of the
universe and believes the paranormal and religion coexist. He
also said he believes in many of the subjects his callers cover
-- including conspiracies.

"There's no question in my mind that there's a manipulation
worldwide. Who are they? I don't know."

Noory said he censors no one. He said he has had callers
challenge others, and his show has invited debunkers, including
the South Florida-based James Randi; Randi turned down the
invitation.

Noory also doesn't judge his listeners. "There's some people
that listen to it for pure entertainment value," he said.
"There's people that listen to it because they believe
everything."

Noory said his goal isn't to give people the creeps.

"When people call and say, 'There's a ghost in my room, what do
I do?', I say, 'Turn on the lights,' " Noory said. But he said
his show succeeds because listeners listen in the dark, maybe a
little scared to peek out the window.

"It would not work at 10 o'clock in the morning," he said. "It
would lose the mystery."











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   Mar > Mar 31

                 Caution Pravda 'Story'! UFO Fragments Yield

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 08:08:13 -0800
Fwd Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 10:44:44 -0500
Subject: Caution Pravda 'Story'! UFO Fragments Yield


Source: Pravda

http://english.pravda.ru/science/19/94/378/12390_UFO.html

03/31/2004

UFO fragments yield sensational results

An unidentified flying object has crashed in the Far East.
Hundreds of people witnessed the event. The UFO crashed into the
rocky mountains located in the town of Dalnegorsk.

A strange spherical object has slightly brushed upon the mount
at approximately 8:00pm, January 29th, 1986. Witnesses claim
they saw a bright flash but did not hear anything. The glow from
the fire appeared rather strange: blue aureole lasted for about
an hour and a half.

At first, local residents thought it was a rocket from the
nearest military base. However, as it turned out, neither our,
nor foreign armed forces conducted training at that time.

In a few days after the incident, a group of rescue workers and
researchers headed by professor Dvuzhilin climbed up the
Rockies. They managed to collect vitrified metal fragments for
analysis.

Scientists were mesmerized by the results:

The fragments contained majority of elements of the periodic
table. The alloy was incredibly strong; nothing but a diamond
cutter could cut it. Strange things were happening to the metal
fragments as well: certain metals were miraculously substituted
by others. After melting the alloy in a vacuum, spectrum
analysis did not detect previously present particles of gold,
silver and nickel. Instead, such elements as titan and
molybdenum appeared.

Back then scientists could not come up with a logical
explanation and simply called it "mysticism". The main surprise
however was yet to be discovered. Some of the fragments
contained unusual gauze. It was made of the tiniest (only 17
micron wide) carbonic and metal threads. They in turn were made
of twisted fibers.

It was impossible at the time to create anything that would
resemble that piece of work. Nobody knew its main purpose
either. Russian scientists did not want to mention aliens and
simply assumed that the crashed object was an American
apparatus; and the gauze was a mere example of their
revolutionary technological advances.

After the USSR's collapse, all of those fragments (collected at
611m height) were introduced to English, American and Japanese
scientists. They were all allowed to attend the actual place of
the catastrophe and videotape the landscape. Valeri Dvuzhilin
contacted his American colleagues; they however weren't much of
help. American scientists disproved the assumption that the
object had anything to do with American ground breaking
technologies. In the end both sides began suspecting KGB.

Indeed KGB had something to do with the crash. Members of the
regional committee of the Far East decided to conduct their own
investigation. The investigation was mainly triggered by certain
rumors of the locals who claimed that KGB was testing some
secret weapons.

Back then, thirty three unidentified flying objects were spotted
near Dalnegorsk. They hovered at 611 and illuminated the
surface. Army guards, navy crews observed the show along with
hundreds of local residents. TV and radio stations announced
that those were simply "weather conditions."

Everyone preferred to forget about what happened at 611.
However, events of the past year brought the memory back to
life. Army guards of the Nakhodka region spotted a UFO. The
object was located at 25 kilometers away from Dalnegorsk. This
triangular-shpade machine equipped with six engines was moving
quietly, hovering above sea and dry land. It disappeared after
about an hour.

Afterwards, local fishermen discovered a rather strange
substance in water. Interestingly, it was similar to the one
found and examined by Dvuzhilin in 1986. Similar alloys were
found only in the mountains in places where people witnessed
those flying objects.

 Another expedition that was sent to the mountains to examine
the area more thoroughly detected a major anomaly at the height
611. After the UFO crash, even silicon becomes magnetized in the
area.

"We climbed atop the mount together with Valeri Dvuzhilin,"
tells leader of the expedition Vadim Chernobrov. "We acquired
almost thirty kg of various samples such as metal particles,
wood fragments, stones. They were later sent to Moscow along
with earlier acquired samples for further analysis. They were
examined in several different research centers for more
objective results."

Preliminary analysis yielded sensational results: those were
neither traces of natural cataclysms, nor products of earthly
technologies. The place at 611 m is the world's only place with
distinct traces of the UFO landing.

Vadim Chernobrov assumes that there was not quite a crash but
rather a rather bad landing. According to Dvuzhilin, Dalnegorsk
attracts UFOs due to some unique fields of rare metals. If this
is true, then another visit is not that far off.










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   Mar > Mar 31

                           Abductees Share Stories

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 23:45:04 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 23:45:04 -0500
Subject: Abductees Share Stories




Source: Cibola County News - Grants, New Mexico

Wednesday, March 31, 2004

Abductees Share Stories

An alien abduction night held at Double Six Gallery in Grants
last month featured spaceship paintings, glow-in-the-dark
jewelry and a sense of light-hearted fun. The second meeting
last Thursday had a slightly different tone.

The gathering was small - only about 10 people - but the
geographical areas represented at the gallery event were large.
Cars in the parking lot showed owners from Arizona, Colorado,
North Dakota and New Mexico. Residents of the star Zeta Articuli
were the main (serious) topic of conversation.

Three people in the group claimed to have met the aliens before.
Former Grants resident Robert Allen said he has seen the star
travelers many times, and has been abducted several times as
well. Gil Riggs claimed to have seen aliens since 1951, when he
was in the Coast Guard in Alaska. A woman who refused to
identify herself said aliens attempted to abduct her but she
refused to go.

Allen

Allen said he was first abducted in 1990 while living in Grants.
"They came through the walls and took me," he explained. The
spacemen reportedly told him, "We love you," at the time of his
abduction.

Allen has since made it his mission to educate the world about
our brothers from space by selling videotapes, giving talks
about alien descriptions in the Bible and interpreting
petroglyphs that show 1,200-year-old drawings of star travelers
riding on disks. He believes crop circles, cattle mutilations
and alien pregnancies are all the work of spiny gray people from
outer space.

"I'm amazed people are talking of this openly," Allen said.
"Many people are afraid to speak out because of ridicule."

Allen believes the Earth is about to experience a massive
spiritual change as aliens try to change human DNA and help
earthlings avoid a nuclear-related disaster like "The Grays"
experienced in the past. "We have a mission to make them feel
welcome."

Allen said he thinks "We are interplanetary beings ourselves"
who were brought here from outer space, and that the aliens like
us because the Earth is so beautiful from space.

He advised audience members to carry a camera everywhere they
go, even though he said he has never succeeded in getting a
picture of an alien.

Allen believes aliens don't show themselves openly because the
U.S. military wants to use their technology for military
purposes. He named President Dwight D. Eisenhower, President
George W. Bush and former Fuhrer Adolph Hitler as famous UFO
sighters. Hitler shot down a UFO in Germany during World War II,
according to Allen.

"Grants needs to go out and reach everyone on the subject," he
said.

Riggs

Gil Riggs said the aliens are nitrogen-based life forms who were
created in a laboratory and cannot reproduce on their own. That
is why they keep trying to get Earth women pregnant - so they
can remove the alien baby before it is born, "without scars or
anything." He said the aliens are also concerned about humans
blowing themselves up with atomic bombs, and that they remove
gold from the earth with lasers.

Riggs claimed that UFOs are so common that the US and USSR
signed agreements during the Cold War to hold off on launching
nuclear bombs until after they had verified that no UFOs were
involved. Airline pilots and stewardesses have been told to keep
their mouths shut about UFO sightings, he added, and military
pilots can be court-martialed if they talk.

Riggs claimed to have seen half-mile-long mother ships while UFO
watching in Laguna and San Diego. Some answered questions by
blinking their lights.

He talked of earthly astronauts who believe in little gray men
from space, and of how those little visitors follow him around.
He also believes in reincarnation, and that people from Atlantis
had space travel.

Other audience members

A woman who refused to identify herself, but who said she is a
psychiatric nurse, had her own memories of an attempted
abduction that she refused to participate in. She felt there are
several kinds of aliens with different missions concerning
Earth, and that they can be divided into "Good Guys" and "Bad
Guys." The woman said her boss is a psychiatrist who treats
abductees' psychological problems, and that the U.S. government
is trying to cover up proof of alien visits. Allen agreed.
"There's lots of secret stuff the government doesn't want us to
know."

Even local residents got into the act. Janice Derrick didn't
make any comments about her own beliefs, but noted that UFO
sightings are a rural phenomena and that people often saw lights
in the sky when she was a girl growing up in Oklahoma. "Every
country on earth has encountered this problem," she said.

Artist Dennis Black said he attended a UFO conference in
Stockton Pass, Arizona, and that the area is sometimes called a
"portal" for space visitors. "All things are possible," he said.
Of course, Black also wore a t-shirt that stated, "You have the
right to remain silent. Anything you say will be misquoted, and
then used against you."

The next Alien Abduction Night is planned for 6 p.m. on April 27
at the Double Six Gallery. For more information, call 287-7311
or stop by 117 N. First Street in Grants.  - Marian Hamilton







   UFO UpDates
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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   Mar > Mar 31

                      16th Annual Ozark UFO Conference

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 10:01:55 -0800
Fwd Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 23:48:35 -0500
Subject: 16th Annual Ozark UFO Conference


Source: The Baxtor Bulletin - Arkansas

http://www.baxterbulletin.com/news/stories/20040331/localnews/179583.html

3-31-04

16th annual Ozark UFO Conference, Inn of the Ozarks Convention
Center, Eureka Springs, April 9-11. Lectures and audio-visual
presentations, pertaining to UFOs. Will include researchers,
authors and persons who have had UFO experiences plus. Admission:
$40 per person. Contact Lucius Farish at (501) 354-2558.

ozarkufo.nul
http://www.ozarkufo.com









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   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   Mar > Mar 31

                              Filers Files #15

From: George A. Filer <Majorstar.nul>
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 14:52:06 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 22:01:28 -0500
Subject: Filers Files #15


Filers Files #15 - 2004 Skywatch Investigations
George A. Filer, Director MUFON Eastern
March 31, 2004, Webmaster: Chuck Warren --

If photos don't show up in email, try

www.georgefiler.com/"Weekly files" Views

Last week' files on March 24, were mistakenly numbered #13
instead of #14


Mars Faces Indicate Life

Mars Bonneville Crater, Asteroid Near Miss of Earth by only
25,000 Miles, Mars Has a New Face, Methane Gas on Mars Indicates
Life, Massachusetts =96 Shape Shifting, Rhode Island - Egg Shaped
Object, New Jersey - Light Formations, North Carolina =96 Two
Silver Elongated Objects, Kentucky -Huge Craft, Ohio =96 Disc
Paces Cars, Minnesota =96 Flying Triangle, Texas =96 UFO
Photographed, Arizona =96 Light, California =96 Disk and Sphere,
Canada - Prime Minister Sees UFO's, Brazil =96 Flying Triangle,
UK/Scotland =96Cylinder, England =96 Flying Triangle, and Jordan -
 Cigar Shaped UFO.

Spirit Rover Reaches Mars Bonneville Crater

The crater is about 200 meters across and 20 meters deep and
appears to contain the remnants of an ancient temple or
structure. Here is the statue waiting for us at its rim. Thanks
to JPL. Note square corners, apparent writing on head dress. Two
faces with nose, mouth and eyes.

Carl Sagan stated, =93Craters have shapes. Some are perfectly
bowl-shaped; others are flat, shallow, gently sloped. The shape
of the crater does not much depend on the velocity of the
impacting object, provided it hits the ground hard enough  the
result is the same as detonating a large explosion at the point
of impact. The crater shape does depend on how soft the surface
is, and on fragility of the infalling material.=94 Page 262. Comet
by Carl Sagan.

I speculate that an ancient structure or temple was hit by the
exploding object such as asteroid. You can compare the ejecta
from this explosion with all other rover missions, and Spirit is
taking images of see carved rocks with symbols, faces, curved
and smooth unnatural features. While in the Air Force, one of my
jobs was to access the effectiveness of bombing in Vietnam. We
had a similar situation where structures were destroyed by large
explosions. Essentially, we are looking at rubble from this
explosion at Bonneville, the nickname infers a pleasant place,
before it was destroyed.

Statues, major buildings and the like would have been thrown
into the air for hundreds of meters leaving little to identify.
I asked my 5th grade grand-daughter to take some photos to
class. The student scientists reported seeing E,Y,G symbols and
several faces. Parts of statues, busts and columns are
identifiable in my opinion.

Observation is the key to discovery in science. Certain shapes
such as triangles do not occur in planetary surface geology. Yet
we are collecting many examples of triangles and pyramids. Many
civilizations erect statues to their leaders and gods. We know
that nature can make various symbols and faces by accident but
seldom do you see more than one or two in a whole quarry.
Consequently, one face or one letter is not proof, but if dozens
of faces and symbols are found, we can declare that life once
existed at the place we have nicknamed =93Gavesak.

JPL informs me that the best cameras on the Rover have a
resolution of 1024 x 1024 pixel images. There isn't any excuse
for using a 1 megapixel sensor when 3 megapixel cameras were
available at Walmart for a few hundred dollars. Right now there
are 5 and 6 megapixel point and shoot cameras there. NASA
technology is touted to be decades AHEAD of the consumer market,
but in photo imaging it is decades BEHIND. They even shoot in
color. This European Space Agency Image sent by Bob Bryant shows
a temple like structure with an underground entrance. Structure
at top left is similar to Mayan Pyramid at Uxmal,

In my opinion Mars has life today. The evidence sent back from
Mars by two Viking Landers in 1976 and 1977 was not clearcut. In
fact, NASA's first press release about the Viking tests
announced that the results were positive. The "Labelled Release"
(LR) experiments had given positive results. Later NASA reversed
its position. I spoke with Dr. Levin last week who insists his
Mar's life experiments proved there is life on Mars.

When the same two experiments were run on soil from Antarctica,
the same conflicting results were obtained (LR - positive;
organics - negative.) Soil from Antarctica definitely contains
life. The test for organics was negative because it is far less
sensitive than the LR experiment. The same problem could have
caused the organics test on Mars to give a false negative. Rick
Berry has located this astounding image of multiple faces.
Flying over the faces can be seen from either direction.

Arthur C. Clarke said, "It is really quite amazing by what
margins competent but conservative scientists and engineers can
miss the mark, when they start with a preconceived idea, what
they are investigating is impossible. When this happens, the
most well-informed men become blinded by their prejudices and
are unable to see what lies directly ahead of them."

Asteroid Misses Earth by only 25,000 Miles

Mitch Battros (ECTV) writes, " I know this is hard to believe,
but it is true. Just hours ago, a new razor close asteroid
zoomed by Earth. It is known as =912004 FY15=92. I am researching
like mad trying to find =91who=92 found this rock, and =91when=92. I
will be reporting on this breaking news event as information
becomes available. Asteroid 2004 FY15 occurred early on March
27th. It was discovered by the Catalina Sky Survey (CSS) in
Arizona and confirmed early by Robert Hutsebaut of Brussels,
Belgium. The object is 25 meters (75 feet) across. Distance was
a mere 23,786 kilometers (14,780 miles). This is the 12,000
miles =93closer=94 than last weeks Asteroid 2004 FH =93record close
flyby=94. Folks, I realize most of you may not be able to grasp
just how close and dangerous this asteroid is. It is history
making. Thanks to Earth Changes TV

Methane Gas on Mars Indicates Life.

Two different teams, one using Mars Express, the second using
the Canada-France-Hawaii telescope, have discovered about the
same proportion of methane in the Martian atmosphere (roughly
1/100,000,000).  This is about 100 times less than on Earth.
According to the second team, "methanogenesis by living
subterranean organisms is the most likely explanation" (living
now, not fossils). Source:
http://mainlymartian.blogs.com/2004/03/methane_and_thu.html
Jean-Pierre Pharabod

Massachusetts =96 Shape Shifting

METHUEN =96 The witness spotted a shape shifting object moving low
to the ground at 9:40 PM. on March 19, 2004. At first I thought
it was a balloon being launched from a local business but it was
almost gas like in form. As this mass went up, I realized it was
changing shape with a slight changing of color. I followed it up
and then it started moving over my head pretty high in the sky.
I followed it until it went over my sister in laws house and I
couldn=92t see it anymore. I then saw three lights chasing it.
These lights seemed extremely high and moved extremely fast
following the shape changing objects exact path. I can only
explain it as cloud like or gas like with a self emitting light?
It seemed to change shape and color. It started low to the
ground and rose slowly. I have never seen anything like it
before. I called my local Police, but no one else has reported
anything. Thanks to Peter Davenport UFOcenter

Rhode Island - Egg Shaped Object

West Warwick =96 I was walking the dogs with my son and saw what I
thought was a falling star. I said "look a falling star". By the
time I was done saying that, I realized it wasn=92t a falling star
because it was going horizontally and it was much too low. So I
yelled it's not a falling star, it's a UFO and then I thought it
could be a missile of some sort. But, it split in two. Or
perhaps there were two that were traveling close together and
just split apart. Then, one went east and the other went very
slightly south east.

((NUFORC Note: The witness believed that the object probably was
not a meteor. PD))

New York - Sky WatchnnnnnnnnNew Jersey =96 Abduction Investigation

PINE BUSH -- Vinny Polise writes, "Just 45 minutes from the
hustle and bustle of New York City, Pine Bush is one of the most
serene places to visit because of its peaceful surroundings and
rolling hills but its secret is frequent UFO visits." The winter
months have been extremely hard on the sky watchers with high
winds and temperatures that dropped well below freezing, but
spring is upon us so the nightly UFO sky watches will become
more and more frequent. I was recently at the monthly meeting of
the United Friends Observer Society, which is held the first
Wednesday of the month at the Old School House on Route 52 in
Walker Valley. Sightings are starting to pick up once again.

John and Sue Mann play a big part in the experiences that
surround the Pine Bush enigma. They are the ones to talk with
when dealing with strange activity in Pine Bush. Check out their
photos, which are extremely impressive! Thanks to Vinny Polise
The Pine Bush Experience www.pinebushufo.com

New Jersey - Light Formations

TINTON FALLS =96 The observers have been seeing orbs near the
Jersey Shore on a regular basis. This is the 5th event in the
last three months. They have increased in frequency and because
of other events the observers suspects other aspects of these
'sightings' might be in effect on March 21, 2004 at 9 PM. I was
heading out to the garage and felt panicked, something I haven't
felt since I was a young boy and it was exactly the same
feeling, specifically a feeling of being watched. The
temperature had dropped significantly, clearing the night sky
for some good star viewing this evening. I look at the night sky
each and every night, as well as study astrology and do some
amateur astronomy, so I am VERY aware of the positions of the
planets. What I first thought to be Venus, was a bit too high in
the sky for 8:25pm. I kept looking and thought it was odd that
it looked as bright as it did in late February.

I continued to look and it faded into a very faint dot, and then
disappeared. " With that, I looked DIRECTLY above my head, and
saw two more bright 'dots' or orbs' which were flying in an
echelon right formation, heading due east. These things were
bright looking stars, but lower than real stars and they turned
into dim dots (which then made them look more natural like
stars. I looked back in the direction of the first object and it
came 'zooming' back into full brightness. Thanks to Peter
Davenport UFOcenter

HOPEWELL - On March 22, 2004 at 8 PM, while driving on back road
near Hopewell, two friends spotted a formation of four lights,
with the bottom three diagonal to the right . The top brightest
light was slightly off to the left. We looked at the formation
for a minute while it stayed stationary, and then the top
brightest light began to move. It passed the car and changed
position from the right of the car over to the left. Once we
looked back at the remaining three lights, the next top one
moved a little to the right, flew straight up, then disappeared
into the sky. After driving a little while longer, we were
shocked to find a number of blinking lights surrounding the car.
After a short amount of time, the objects disappeared, and we
noticed we were being followed by a mysterious car. The car's
headlights were so bright it caused my friend and me to comment
on growing headaches. When we slowed to allow the car to pass,
it came to a stop, and eventually fell behind us. The whole
event lasted about ten minutes.Thanks to Peter Davenport
UFOcenter

North Carolina =96 Two Elongated Objects

VIRGINIA BORDER =96 The witness was driving south on Highway 220
toward Greensboro at 5:30 PM, on March 14, 2004, when an object
appeared in front of him in the distance and was moving in a
very fluid manner across the sky. It was silver, elongated and
left no contrail like a plane. There were also two airliners in
the air at what seemed to be about the same altitude and they
were leaving contrails, but this object was not. I kept watching
and then it just darted straight up and vanished. A few minutes
later, I saw another object that looked exactly the same as
before. Its characteristics were the same as the first. The
second object stayed in the sky moving to the west for just a
few minutes and then it darted up and away like the first
object. It was difficult to tell the altitudes of the objects,
but I would say it was between 10,000 - 25,000 feet. Thanks to
Peter Davenport UFOcenter

Kentucky -Huge Craft

LOUISVILLE =96 A huge cone shaped object was flying very slow and
stopped for a few seconds and then started moving again and then
picked up speed at 4:10 AM on March 23, 2004. The witness was at
a new cut road in Louisville and got out of his car to view the
huge craft that was a little over a mile away at a 45 degree
angle. The craft had four lights that were visible, two on the
top and two on the bottom. It was moving northwest and the
weather was clear at 32 degrees. There was no sound and it had
to be at least 300 yards long. The top was about half of that.
This had to be the mother of the mother ships. This was not a
plane, bird, or chopper. I know what I saw. I have a degree in
criminal justice, private investigations and certified in
missing persons and studied bounty hunting and fingerprinting, I
work on facts and facts only, and this is a fact. Thanks to
Peter Davenport UFOcenter

Ohio =96 Disc Paces Cars

SHEFFIELD LAKE -- Around 11 PM on Friday night, March 19, 2004,
three friends decided to go to a local pub and were driving west
on US Route 6 towards Lorain at about 35 mph in light traffic.
The road follows the southern shore of Lake Erie, homes line
both sides of the road, and those on our right have the lake as
their backyard. Two friends were in the first vehicle and a
friend was following. They could see a very bright white light
ahead on the right in a cluster of trees. They thought it might
be a medical helicopter traveling along the shoreline but it was
not moving. As we cleared the trees there it was about 50 feet
above the lake right next to a large house. There was a very
bright white light but as they got closer they could make out
faintly in the light a saucer shaped object with a dome on top
and one red and blue light below it, steady not flashing. The
light was very intense yet gave no reflection, not on the house
or on the ground. The witness states, =93I=92m still driving
westbound in some traffic, I slowed down and want to stop but
unless you go into a driveway you can't. Then the object started
moving, pacing us at about 30mph, still maintaining its position
over the shore line and going behind houses for thirty minutes,
yet no reflection on anything.=94 It looked to be about 20 to 25
feet in diameter and did not change its appearance. My friend
said, "Be careful driving, since I was staring at the UFO.=94

All of a sudden a feeling of fear came over me, not just being
afraid but near terror. I was driving OK, and leaving about
seven or eight car lengths behind the car in front because I was
trying to make out exactly what the shape within that light was
and keeping along side of it. Then, I thought what's with this
fear. Then the fear left and I had a feeling of contentment. We
watched the ship the whole time, and after about 5 blocks, we
made the one traffic light, the UFO started to speed up and flew
faster and faster heading west and climbing until its light
became a pinpoint. The climb was very gradual as it accelerated
away very smoothly. The person following us didn't see a thing.
The geographical location is near Avon Point on Lake Erie. I
downed a drink as soon as we got to the pub. Thanks to Peter
Davenport UFOcenter

Disc image taken by George Ritter 30 miles from Lake Erie

Minnesota =96 Flying Triangle

OAKDALE =96 The witness reports, =93On this night My fianc=E9', her
daughter and myself witnessed a triangular object flying
northeast on March 24, 2004. It passed directly over our vehicle
as we were driving due south at 9 PM. We saw it initially coming
towards us several miles away. I said to my fianc=E9, "Look, there
is a UFO". In jest at first because we are both sky-watchers. I
said this because I am not used to seeing aircraft with dominate
blue and green lights. There were 6 lights visible from the
bottom of the craft. Two lights, with a blue and a green that
were dominate. There were three yellow/white lights about 1/3 as
bright as the green and blue lights. Also, a slightly fainter
red light. The red light was on the leading edge of the triangle
at the apex. Two thirds of the way back to the base of the
triangle were green and blue lights nearer to the edges. At the
base were the three yellow/white lights centered on the base
between the green and blue lights.

As it came closer and then right over us, it was very clear that
this was not a helicopter and it was flying at 1200 feet
altitude and there was no sound. It seemed to be going no more
than 80 miles per hour. I turned around to follow it and kept up
pretty well at 50 MPH. I was in a residential area and soon had
to stop. We stopped and watched it for several minutes and saw a
helicopter flying NW seemingly going towards this object. There
was also another helicopter going directly N and to our left
that seemed to be headed in that direction, also. It was very
easy to hear and see that these were helicopters. As the
triangle reached five miles north of us it turned to the
northwest. I am former Air Force and know aircraft but this is
the first time I have been stumped ;) Thanks to Peter Davenport
UFOcenter

Texas =96 UFO Photographed

ROUND ROCK =96 The witness was outside and noticed what looked
like a plane leaving a contrail going straight up on March 22,
2004. There was something sitting there next to the contrail at
11:30 AM..  He states, =93I got two pictures before it
disappeared.=94 It was glowing on the bottom and silver on top. He
was facing toward Austin Bergstrom Airport, but 30 miles south
of it. Maybe it is the angle, but I swear it seemed it was
taking off almost straight up and moving pretty fast too.
mmay1.nul

Arizona - Light

LAKE HAVASU CITY =96 A bright reddish-orange light was spotted
southeast of the city phasing on and off in an inconsistent
north-to-south-to-north again pattern. I saw a bright,
artificial light (relative in terms to the stars) in the sky
southeast of the city. On first sighting it "turned on" for
about 3 or 4 seconds, holding, then phased out on March 24, 2004
at 8:30 PM. Approximately 3 seconds later it flared again, but
more to the south, in the same manner as it did before. About 15
seconds later it flared again, but more to the north. The light
was orange-red in color. Other aircraft were observed in the
vicinity of the light. It should be noted that Nellis AFB is
approximately 150 miles to the north, while Luke AFB is about
200 miles to the east. The light was not a shooting star, as it
exhibited no like patterns. I don't claim that the object was a
UFO or a craft of any type, but it was inconsistent with
anything else I've seen, and I've lived in the open West near
air force bases and missile testing facilities nearly all my
life. I also make a living based on my ability to observe.
Thanks to Peter Davenport UFOcenter

California =96 Disk and Sphere

VALENCIA -- Looking out my bedroom window, i observed an unusual
hovering object in the distance. The shape was somewhat
difficult to see, as it was far away, and high, in a dark sky.
However, three lights, in a horizontal row, each light seemingly
multicolored (white, pink, green...but difficult to tell for
sure) maintained the same position until i went to bed about an
hour later. Possible blimp? My husband is an astrogeophysicist
and said that it was the closest thing to a UFO he has ever
seen.

Santa Monica =96 The craft came from the west out from over the
Pacific Ocean at 12:15 PM, on March 15, 2004. It was flying much
higher than the commercial jet traffic over Los Angeles. It
looked like four shiny metallic spheres traveling at a very high
velocity together. They passed over the Los Angeles Valley then
went over the mountains to the east of Burbank heading east.
Less than two minutes passed from the time I spotted the object
over the Pacific to the time it went over Los Angeles and over
the mountain east of Burbank and out of sight. The craft was
much bigger than a commercial jet and as it rotated up it formed
the classical chevron shape. I've made several 3D renderings of
what I saw to help explain.

UFO1_1: View of approaching craft from over the Pacific - balls
parallel to the ground

UFO2_2: Chevron shape it formed when it rotated upward

UFO3_3: Object rotates back to 4 balls together flying parallel
to the ground

UFO4_4: Object slightly rotated.  The craft appeared a
metallic/chrome in color. The very high craft appeared much
larger than the lower flying Commercial Planes approaching
LAX..Thanks to Peter Davenport UFOcenter

MODESTO =96R. David Anderson writes, =93I have been seeing UFO's
while I was working on a sunroom addition on our house. I
noticed one twice last week while I was working and on March 22,
2004. I finished up around 4 PM, and rested with my new 4.3
digital camera nearby. After about 35 minutes, I saw the UFO to
the north flying at about 30 mph and was probably about 250 feet
high. It's direction of travel was toward the Southeast. I
picked up the camera and began to take pictures, following it's
movement as it went from the northern sky to the eastern sky in
about 45 seconds. It went behind a large tree. When it came back
into my view it had climbed much higher and began to dim as it
moved farther away. My seven year old daughter also saw this
UFO."

Thanks to R. David Anderson.

Washington =96Three Flying Lights

YAKIMA -- They moved slowly across the ridge to the valley on
March 17, 2004, at 8:10 PM, as if looking for something at 8:20
PM. The witness was out driving in the West Valley area when he
saw three lights in the sky. The witness says, =93At first I
thought they were just star's until they moved, so I stopped and
started watching.=94 They were moving slow at first across a ridge
line then down in a valley over homes and field=92s making no
sound's at all They were three small round or flat lights with a
steady gold glow. I watched for about ten or fifteen minuets and
all at once they were gone in to the night sky! Thanks to Peter
Davenport UFOcenter

Canada - Prime Minister Sees UFO's

RUE DE LA MONTAGNE, QC =96 The witness was outside his apartment
building at Orion when coming from the west, he saw a slightly
faint looking orange light on March 21, 2004, at 9:45 PM. It was
not lit up and probably the reflection of the sun or even the
city lights made it visible. It seemed to be two "X" shaped or
square craft. The angle made it appear that there were two of
them, almost diagonal to each other, but very close to one
another. There could have been something I couldn't see
attaching the two, and it could have been only one, with two X
square shaped edges. They seemed to "wobble" as if hanging off a
string and were a reddish-orange color, going in a straight
"wobbly" direction right across the sky towards the east. They
were going much faster than any plane but not as fast as a
falling star. It didn't seem as high as planes fly at 35,000
feet.

OTTAWA (CP) - What fate the stars hold for Paul Martin may be
unclear.  But one thing's certain: Canada's prime minister
recently had a high-flying close encounter with a UFO. Martin
and his entourage were cruising above Alberta when their
Challenger jet came within another worldly whisker of a luminous
object streaking through the night sky. In a report to Edmonton
air traffic controllers, the pilot of Martin's plane noted
seeing a "very bright light falling" through the air, with smoke
trailing, while the aircraft passed over Suffield, Alta., on
Sunday, March 21.

People aboard at least two other planes also saw the plummeting
object, which was traveling "at a very fast rate of speed" from
a high altitude, says the report.  A copy of the one-page form,
titled "UFO Procedures," was provided to the Canadian Press by
Chris Rutkowski of the Winnipeg-based group Ufology Research of
Manitoba.  Rutkowski, a longtime tracker of UFO sightings,
obtained the report from the federal Transport Department, which
routinely forwards him data on unidentified flying objects.
 Martin traveled to a farm near Picture Butte, Alta., to
announce an aid package for farmers last Monday.  So was an
extraterrestrial envoy trying to convey a message to Canada's
new leader?  Unlikely, says Rutkowski. What the prime minister's
plane and many others saw that night was almost certainty a
chunk of a comet or an asteroid that entered Earth's atmosphere
and burned up into fragments. An amateur astronomer in Calgary
captured the blazing streak on videotape. And it appears one or
more such fireballs were seen by people across the Prairies and
as far east as Quebec.  In any event, it's unclear if Martin or
his aides even glimpsed the object that crossed the plane's
path. The group's recently released 2003 survey found that a
record 673 reports of unidentified objects were made to various
organizations and investigators in Canada. Thanks to CNews and
Jim Bronskill.

CALGARY, ALBERTA =96 Three witnesses reported seeing two discs on
March 28, 2004, at 5:10 PM. I was looking into the sky at the
Confederation driving range watching a ball when I saw the first
object moving across the sky at a high rate of speed. I was able
to point it out to two friend and they tracked it with me. As we
watched it move across the sky - we noticed a second one in
front of it, they were moving at such an incredible rate of
speed that they simply vanished into the distance. The two
objects were circular in shape and had a silver metallic color
to them. Thanks to HBCC UFO Research which is following up the
report.  Brian Vike, Director http://www.hbccufo.com

Brazil =96 Flying Triangle

JOANOPOLIS =96 On March 22, 2004, at 3 AM, a flying triangle was
seen for thirty minutes over Brazil. It appeared in the west
side of the dam and JAGUAR=CC. Later another craft appeared. Both
objects were flying triangles with a golden color. Later, the
objects passed over a vehicle near the mountain of the LOPO.
Thanks to Peter Davenport UFOcenter

UK/Scotland -Cylinder

MOTHERWELL =96 At 11 PM on March 22, 2004, the witness was sitting
watching television when out the corner of his eye he caught
something green colored flying by . The witness saw a bright
green cylinder, about twice the diameter of a ball. It appeared
to be traveling at a phenomenal speed but it was difficult to
tell how far away it was. It was traveling in an arc like it may
have been following the earth's curvature. It disappeared from
my view when it seemed to dip behind some buildings on the
skyline. The speed and the color really made an impact on me,
hence this report. I have never seen a =93UFO=94 but I cannot deny
what I saw. Thanks to Peter Davenport UFOcenter

England =96 Flying Triangle

LANGFORD -- A formation of three white pinpoints of light slowly
crossed the night sky at very high altitude on on March 15, 2004
at 12:15 PM. The lights formed the shape of an isosceles
triangle, or Greek letter Delta rotated anti-clockwise by 45
degrees. I would estimate that the lights that were furthest
apart from each other (which were in "line astern" formation)
subtended an angle of around 5 degrees from where I saw them.
They were moving ESE over a period of about 5-10 minutes.

Note: Peter Davenport indicates the NOSS Navy triple satellites
on www.heavens-above.com database indicates that NOSS 2 or NOSS
2-1 are likely suspects, as the ground track and timings fits
very well.

Jordan - Cigar Shaped UFO

AMMAN -- My son and I were looking at the Taurus constellation
close to the moon on March 25, 2004 at 7:25 PM when we
registered something passing by heading direction north (coming
south) 50 meters high. We thought at first it was a bird or a
bat, but there were no wings, just this cigar shaped object
(50cm long) passing by without any sound. The color was
something like cherry wood. It made some 100 meters within 10
seconds. Thanks to Peter Davenport UFOcenter

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   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   Mar > Mar 31

                         Re: Polar Orbiters? - Smith

From: James Smith <zeus001002.nul>
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 16:57:05 -0500 (GMT-05:00)
Fwd Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 22:06:14 -0500
Subject: Re: Polar Orbiters? - Smith


>From: Eleanor White <eleanor.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 16:29:20 -0500
>Subject: Polar Orbiters?

>Has anyone investigated references to at least one polar
>orbiting satellite discovered during the Sputnik era, and
>presumed therefore not of Earthly origin?
>Eleanor White


I have looked at some journal references of these observations
as well as a number of UFO-type web sites. At the end of this
email I describe the journal reference, but first lets review
the sensational UFO website type widely repeated story.....

"It was in February 1960 that the first discovery of a mystery
satellite first caused a sensation in the U.S. Department of
Defense. It was hardly surprising, for the North American Air
Defense System's radar tracking facilities had locked on to what
appeared to be a satellite weighing at least 15 tons - far in
excess of anything capable of being place into orbit in 1960."

"It was quickly established that the satellite had not been
launched by either the United States or Russia. For a start, it
was in the wrong kind of orbit. The mystery object's path took
it over the North and South poles..."

Or this other....

"In February 1960 a station of the North American Air Defense
System picked up a radar echo from an enormous space station
orbiting the Earth. This intercept caused panic and alarm
throughout America's and the Soviet Union's Defense Departments.
It was the wrong kind of orbit for a Soviet launch. The space
station was in a polar orbit, whereas the orbits of Soviet
satellites were invariably inclined at 65 degrees to the
equator, which took the satellites over South America and North
Africa. Apart from that, there was no booster on either side of
the Atlantic capable of putting such an object into space.
American scientists had calculated that the weight of the
orbiting station was around 15 tons. For three weeks the
Americans kept track of the space station, then it vanished as
suddenly as it had appeared."

No reference for this report is given on any of the UFO
websites.

Now for the journal article:

In J.P. Bagby's "Natural Earth Satellites" in the Journal of the
British Interplanetary Society(Vol. 34. #7, pg289-293, 1981) he
states that Grumman Aircraft Engineering detected an unknown
retrograde body in August 1960. These records are in Grumman
Report No.ADR 07-07-62.4. He lists eight observations from the
report which were made by six teams (7 locations).

Bagby goes on to calculate the orbital elements for these
retrograde objects. Seven such objects, which he attributes to a
parent body from a 1880 swarm, have an inclination of around 135
degrees. One other object is at 101 degrees. As of 1981, only
one of the seven objects were still visible and the 101 degree
one too.

Babgy contends that the retrograde group accounted for the 18th
and 19th century "Vulcan" sightings. I have not
read that paper.

Other references:

Bagby J.P. "Vulcan" Evidence Re-Examined/Journal of the
Astronautical Sciences. Vol. 19. #4. ? USA, VA, Springfield:
AAS, 1972.

Bagby J.P. Evidence of an Ephemeral Earth Satellite/Nature.
Vol. 211. #5045. ? Ldn, 1966.

Bagby J.P. Further "Vulcan" Evidence/Journal of the
Astronautical Sciences. Vol. 20. #4. ? USA, VA, Springfield:
AAS, 1973.

Bagby J.P. Natural Earth Satellites/Journal of the British
Interplanetary Society. Vol. 34. #7. ? Ldn, 1981.

Bagby J.P. Terrestrial Satellites: Some Direct and Indirect
Evidence/Icarus. Vol. 10. #1. ? USA, NY, Ithaca, 1969.

Baker RML Ephemeral Natural Satellites of the Earth, Science,
128 (3333): 1211-1213 1958

I have found no recent sighting data on these satellites.







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   Mar > Mar 31

                     Irish International UFO Conference

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 22:10:18 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 22:10:18 -0500
Subject: Irish International UFO Conference




The UFO Society of Ireland announces:

First Irish International UFO Conference to be held on June
11-13, 2004 at the National University of Ireland, Galway

http://www.ufosocietyireland.com/conference.htm


The UFO Society of Ireland is located at:

www.ufosocietyireland.com

President: Betty Meyler


[UFO UpDates thanks Norman for the lead]








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   Mar > Mar 31

              Re: The Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices -

From: Kelly Freeman <Khfflsciufo.nul>
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 18:56:32 EST
Fwd Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 22:32:16 -0500
Subject: Re: The Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices -


>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 12:46:21 -0400
>Subject: Re: The Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices

<snip>

>You don't sound like you've been at this awhile nor that you
>have read much. Your secret technology is a waste of time and
>naive. And how the US government wastes money on its bombers is
>irrelevant. You said, "But then, simultaneous secret programs
>couldn't be possible, could they? What does John Q. Public have
>the right to know, anyway?

>That doesn't matter, where's the proof. Either way there has to
>be some proof and I'm betting it would be a lot easier to
>disprove the secret technology hypothesis [STH] than the ETH.

>The ET hypothesis doesn't sit right with you so you are going to
>invent some brilliant technology that wasn't around in the 50s.
>Where did it come from? Look at the early aviation technological
>[I'm talking jets] development postwar II history in the states.
>There is none. It was imported, from Germany and England. Now
>you expect me to believe that during and before WWII there was
>some secret, advanced aero technology that no one knew about in
>the US?

>And aircraft always crash-especially when humans are flying
>them. Every model right up to the Concorde. And you_are_wrong.
>Save yourself some time and move on to a more reasonable
>scenario.

>If I sound trite it's because I'm tired of hearing the same old
>"secret US technology" BS on this List and others. It goes no
>further than the flying stovepipe SR-71, put-enough- horsepower-
>on-a-barn-door-and-it will-fly, technology. Even the B-2 was a
>knock-off of the earlier Northrup models and only about 300mph
>faster-thanks to Kevlar and more efficient jets. Shoe me some
>sophistication. Please.

Don,

Gee whiz, you're no fun at all. Sorry I brought this whole thing
up. But, unfortunately, we were sidetracked which is entirely my
fault. My original post suggested "...terrestrial in nature".
But please, don't throw accusations and insults just because I
happen to entertain a theory you disagree with. Good God! It is
just a theory! We could go on and on, but that would be a
waste_of_time. Hope we can have a more productive
discussion/debate on something else in the future.

Have a good day and may peace be with you always.


...Damn! What happened to those Great Airships anyway?


Kelly