UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
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   Apr

                          UFO UpDates Mailing List
                                  Apr 2004

  Apr 1:

   UFO Like '50,000 Spotlights' - Terry Groff [37]
   Book Exposes British Government's UFO Top Secrets - Nick Redfern [22]
   Time Travel & UFOs - Greg Boone [13]
   Request For Coordination Assistance - Larry W. Bryant [95]
   PRG/X-PPAC Update - 02-01-04 - Stephen Bassett [72]
   Re: Polar Orbiters? - Dickenson - Ray Dickenson [49]
   Re: Notorious Reed UFO Fraud Re-Surfaces - - Josh Goldstein [48]
   Re: Methane Find On Mars May Be Sign Of Life - - Josh Goldstein [25]
   Progressive First to Offer UFO Insurance - UFO UpDates - Toronto [44]
   West Central Minnesota Sighting & Photos - Brian Vike - HBCC UFO [71]
   'Fifty Planets' Could Have Life - UFO UpDates - Toronto [74]
   Re: Notorious Reed UFO Fraud Re-Surfaces - Myers - Royce J. Myers III
   [24]
   Zero-Point Energy Machine On Sale! - Tim Shell [2]
   Re: Radio Search For ET Draws A Blank - Pope - Nick Pope [15]

  Apr 2:

   Re: Methane Find On Mars May Be Sign Of Life - Hall - Richard Hall [4]
   Fairy Rings - Martin Shough [47]
   Re: Methane Find On Mars May Be Sign Of Life - - Lan Fleming [26]
   Prophets Of Apocalipse - Thiago Luiz Ticchetti [11]
   Re: Radio Search For ET Draws A Blank - Chapman - Mary Chapman [8]
   Re: Notorious Reed UFO Fraud Re-Surfaces - Myers - Royce J. Myers III
   [26]
   Montreal, Quebec Reports '73 & '85/86 - Brian Vike - HBCC UFO [40]
   Zero-Point Energy Machine On Sale! - Ray Stanford [5]
   Re: The Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices - - Don Ledger [8]
   Magonia Finger Points - Stuart Miller [52]
   Time Travel & UFOs - Tim Shell [16]
   Secrecy News -- 04/01/04 - Steven Aftergood [117]
   Re: Caution Pravda 'Story'! UFO Fragments Yield - Bruce Maccabee [6]
   Re: Why I Support Alien Abduction Study - Maccabee - Bruce Maccabee
   [11]
   Re: Filers Files #15 - Balaskas - Nick Balaskas [44]
   Re: Time Travel & UFOs - Bruce Maccabee [17]
   PRG Media Notice 04-02-04 - Stephen Basset [20]
   Star-Trek & UFOs? - Aaron LeClair [31]
   Need Address For UK's Tony Dodd - Murray Bott [11]
   Re: Radio Search For ET Draws A Blank - Dickenson - Ray Dickenson [33]
   Galileo - Maurice Woolf [15]
   Re: Star Trek & UFOs - Cammack - Diana Cammack [13]
   Re: Notorious Reed UFO Fraud Re-Surfaces - Hall - Richard Hall [14]
   Re: Galileo - Shell - Tim Shell [13]
   Re: Radio Search For ET Draws A Blank - Shell - Tim Shell [30]
   Re: Star-Trek & UFOs? - Ticchetti - Thiago Luiz Ticchetti [20]
   Star-Trek & UFOs? - Oberg - James Oberg [20]
   Re: Galileo - Wise - William Wise [2]
   Re: Star-Trek & UFOs? - Bueche - Will Bueche [30]
   Re: Galileo - Shough - Martin Shough [3]
   Re: Star-Trek & UFOs? - Groff - Terry Groff [3]
   Re: Star Trek & UFOs - Shell - Tim Shell [19]
   Re: Polar Orbiters? - Oberg - James Oberg [28]

  Apr 3:

   Re: Star-Trek & UFOs? - Ledger - Don Ledger [8]
   Re: Polar Orbiters? - Ledger - Don Ledger [26]
   Re: Star Trek & UFOs - Shough - Martin Shough [26]
   Re: Why I Support Alien Abduction Study - Harney - John Harney [10]
   Re: Why I Support Alien Abduction Study - Pope - Nick Pope [30]
   Re: Galileo - Maccabee - Bruce Maccabee [6]
   Re: Star Trek & UFOs - Chapman - Mary Chapman [26]
   Re: Galileo - Friedman - Stanton Friedman [14]
   Re: Time Travel & UFOs - Friedman - Stanton Friedman [7]
   Re: Radio Search For ET Draws A Blank - Pope - Nick Pope [21]
   Re: Radio Search For ET Draws A Blank - Friedman - Stanton Friedman
   [10]
   Re: Polar Orbiters? - Dickenson - Ray Dickenson [16]
   Re: Filers Files #15 - Dickenson - Ray Dickenson [6]
   Re: Radio Search For ET Draws A Blank - Dickenson - Ray Dickenson [18]
   Re: The Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices - - Kelly Freeman [3]
   Re: Filers Files #15 - Stanford - Ray Stanford [140]
   Technical Marvel Robot Real Or Fake? - Greg Boone [7]
   Re: Caution Pravda 'Story'! UFO Fragments Yield - Gildas Bourdais [15]
   Closing The Record On Mortellaro - Alfred Lehmberg [485]
   James Oberg Interview - Norman [6]
   Another Metallic Sound On ISS - Norman [6]
   Re: Galileo [Correction] - Friedman - Stanton Friedman [6]
   Re: Filers Files #15 - Dickenson - Ray Dickenson [42]
   ...Fill your Bucket! - Alfred Lehmberg [72]
   Re: Closing The Record On Mortellaro - Hall - Richard Hall [13]
   Re: Filers Files #15 - Hall - Richard Hall [5]
   Burned At The Steak - Larry Hatch [54]
   Re: Why I Support Alien Abduction Study - Freeman - Kelly Freeman [18]
   Re: Why I Support Alien Abduction Study - Ledger - Don Ledger [24]
   Re: Time Travel & UFOs - Hatch - Larry Hatch [43]
   UFO 'Flight License'? - Terry Groff [17]
   Re: Star-Trek & UFOs? - Moroff - Daniel Moroff [9]
   Re: Closing The Record On Mortellaro - McGonagle - Joe McGonagle [7]
   Re: Polar Orbiters? - Oberg - James Oberg [30]
   Re: Filers Files #15 - Maccabee - Bruce Maccabee [23]

  Apr 4:

   Re: Caution Pravda 'Story'! UFO Fragments Yield - Bruce Maccabee [8]
   Re: Closing The Record On Mortellaro - Lehmberg - Alfred Lehmberg [9]
   Re: Closing The Record On Mortellaro - Clark - Jerome Clark [11]
   Re: Filers Files #15 - Balaskas - Nick Balaskas [72]
   St Paul, Minnesota Sighting 04-01-4 - Brian Vike - HBCC UFO [47]
   Re: Filers Files #15 - Shell - Tim Shell [13]
   Re: Why I Support Alien Abduction Study - Bright - Dan Bright [50]
   Re: Time Travel & UFOs - Shell - Tim Shell [13]
   Re: Closing The Record On Mortellaro - Clark - Jerome Clark [19]
   Re: Why I Support Alien Abduction Study - Pope - Nick Pope [16]
   Re: Filers Files #15 - Balaskas - Nick Balaskas [40]
   Re: Closing The Record On Mortellaro - Lehmberg - Alfred Lehmberg [35]
   Re: Radio Search For ET Draws A Blank - Pope - Nick Pope [47]
   Re: Star-Trek & UFOs? - Ledger - Don Ledger [9]
   Re: UFO Magazine Folds After Editor's Death - Hale - Roy Hale [4]
   Re: UFO 'Flight License'? - McCoy - GT McCoy [7]
   Another Sonora California Encounter & Scoop Mark - Brian Vike - HBCC
   UFO [65]
   Re: BBC 'Methane Poses Mars Life Puzzle' - Anderson - Paul Anderson
   [17]
   Re: Filers Files #15 - Dickenson - Ray Dickenson [14]

  Apr 5:

   Documentary Series 'UFO Under Investigation' - Jacques Poulet [17]
   Re: Closing The Record On Mortellaro - Lehmberg - Alfred Lehmberg [17]
   Re: losing The Record On Mortellaro - McGonagle - Joe McGonagle [26]
   Re: Radio Search For ET Draws A Blank - Friedman - Stanton Friedman
   [68]
   Re: UFO Magazine Folds After Editor's Death - - Joe McGonagle [6]
   Re: Documentary Series 'UFO Under Investigation' - - Chris Rutkowski
   [7]
   Re: Another Metallic Sound On ISS - White - Eleanor White [12]
   Re: Polar Orbiters? - Hall - Richard Hall [10]
   Re: Filers Files #15 - Friedman - Stanton Friedman [12]
   Crop Circles In Australia - Sheryl Gottschall [77]
   Re: Closing The Record On Mortellaro - Clark - Jerome Clark [12]
   A UK-Led Micro-Mission to Mars' Moons? - Frank Warren [104]
   Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers - Chris Parr [14]
   Re: Another Metallic Sound On ISS - Smith - James Smith [10]
   E.T. Call Home - Frank Warren [86]
   Re: 'Flight License'? - Groff - Terry Groff [9]

  Apr 6:

   Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers - Mantle - Phillip Mantle
   [30]
   Re: Documentary Series 'UFO Under Investigation' - - Chris Rutkowski
   [8]
   Russian 'Flying Saucers' To Grace American Skies? - Frank Warren [41]
   Cameras To Roll On Suffolk UFOs - Frank Warren [47]
   Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers - Kaeser - Steven Kaeser
   [19]
   Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers - - Ed Gehrman [18]
   Secrecy News -- 04/05/04 - Steven Aftergood [130]
   Re: Why I Support Alien Abduction Study - Harney - John Harney [34]
   Re: Closing The Record On Mortellaro - Harney - John Harney [4]
   Zeta Reticuli I & II? - Greg Boone [6]
   Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers - Koch - Joachim Koch [15]
   Keyhoe Archives & UFOs - Richard Hall [19]
   UK UFO Researcher Database 2001? - Roy Hale [39]
   Re: Another Metallic Sound On ISS - Scheldroup - John Scheldroup [15]
   Professor Rallies Pilots For Meteor Site Watch - Frank Warren [29]

  Apr 7:

   Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers - Gates - Robert Gates [19]
   Re: E.T. Call Home - McCoy - GT McCoy [14]
   Re: Radio Search For ET Draws A Blank - Balaskas - Nick Balaskas [46]
   3 Red Objects Over Calgary - Brian Vike - HBCC UFO [29]
   Re: 'Flight License'? - McCoy - GT McCoy [12]
   Rupert Idaho Cluster Sighting - Brian Vike - HBCC UFO [50]
   Ripped-Off Map Image By German Site - Larry Hatch [26]
   'UFO' Over Ottawa - Chris Rutkowski [15]
   Re: Zeta Reticuli I & II? - Friedman - Stanton Friedman [11]
   Re: Closing The Record On Mortellaro - Lehmberg - Alfred Lehmberg [14]
   Re: Closing The Record On Mortellaro - Friedman - Stanton Friedman [6]
   Re: Documentary Series 'UFO Under Investigation' - - Alfred Lehmberg
   [35]
   Re: Zeta Reticuli I & II? - Lehmberg - Alfred Lehmberg [14]
   Re: Why I Support Alien Abduction Study - Clark - Jerome Clark [24]
   UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 9 Number 14 - John Hayes [375]
   Re: UK UFO Researcher Database 2001? - McGonagle - Joe McGonagle [101]
   Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers - Shell - Tim Shell [20]
   Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers - Shell - Tim Shell [19]
   UFO Seen Over Ottawa - Frank Warren [16]
   Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers - Groff - Terry Groff [6]
   Re: Zeta Reticuli I & II? - Balaskas - Nick Balaskas [52]
   Re: Closing The Record On Mortellaro - Kaeser - Steven Kaeser [12]
   Professor Chris French On Abduction Phenomenon - Nick Pope [169]
   Re: Closing The Record On Mortellaro - Velez - John Velez [6]
   Re: Why I Support Alien Abduction Study - Reason - Cathy Reason [55]
   Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers - Myers - Royce J. Myers III
   [11]
   Re: Another Metallic Sound On ISS - Grass - Robert Grass [12]
   Re: Closing The Record On Mortellaro - Rimmer - John Rimmer [7]
   Re: Why I Support Alien Abduction Study - Kaeser - Steven Kaeser [34]
   Re: Zeta Reticuli I & II? - Shell - Tim Shell [8]
   Story On Quantum Physics And New Experiment - Greg Boone [8]
   Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers - Parr - Chris Parr [20]
   Re: Zeta Reticuli I & II? - Brock - Rod Brock [62]
   Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers - Morris - Neil Morris [6]
   Journal Of UFO History Prospectus - UFO UpDates - Toronto [83]
   Re: Ripped-Off Map Image By German Site - Groff - Terry Groff [8]
   Brazilians Campaign Against UFO Secrecy - UFO UpDates - Toronto [24]
   Re: Ripped-Off Map Image By German Site - Hatch - Larry Hatch [11]
   Re: Zeta Reticuli I & II? - Friedman - Stanton Friedman [11]
   Re: Radio Search For ET Draws A Blank - Friedman - Stanton Friedman
   [20]
   Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers - Kaeser - Steven Kaeser
   [41]
   Re: Why I Support Alien Abduction Study - Sandow - Greg Sandow [15]
   Pilot Sightings 1963-1975 - James Smith [23]
   Re: Another Metallic Sound On ISS - Smith - James Smith [24]
   Re: Documentary Series 'UFO Under Investigation' - - Chris Rutkowski
   [5]
   Re: Professor Chris French On Abduction Phenomenon - Ray Stanford [14]
   Re: Another Metallic Sound On ISS - Scheldroup - John Scheldroup [21]
   Auroras Alert From NASA - Ray Stanford [19]
   Aliens Prefer Grolsch Beer - Chris Rutkowski [5]
   Secrecy News - 04/07/04 - Steven Aftergood [110]
   Scots UFO Capital - Terry Groff [30]
   Re: Documentary Series 'UFO Under Investigation' - - Paul Kimball [49]
   Re: Why I Support Alien Abduction Study - Harney - John Harney [35]
   Re: Why I Support Alien Abduction Study - Lehmberg - Alfred Lehmberg
   [15]
   Re: Documentary Series 'UFO Under Investigation' - - Alfred Lehmberg
   [11]
   Re: Pilot Sightings 1963-1975 - Hall - Richard Hall [10]
   Re: Why I Support Alien Abduction Study - Clark - Jerome Clark [91]
   Filers Files #16 - 2004 - George A. Filer [453]
   Re: Aliens Prefer Grolsch Beer - Pope - Nick Pope [35]
   Re: Why I Support Alien Abduction Study - Harney - John Harney [29]
   Re: Another Metallic Sound On ISS - McGonagle - Joe McGonagle [5]
   Re: 'UFO' Over Ottawa - Balaskas - Nick Balaskas [52]
   Re: Pilot Sightings 1963-1975 - Friedman - Stanton Friedman [6]
   Re: Zeta Reticuli I & II? - Brock - Rod Brock [20]
   Re: Why I Support Alien Abduction Study - Sandow - Greg Sandow [66]
   Re: Why I Support Alien Abduction Study - Freeman - Kelly Freeman [13]
   Terrace Standard Article: Seeing Things - Brian Vike - HBCC UFO [124]
   Re: Radio Search For ET Draws A Blank - Stanford - Ray Stanford [26]

  Apr 8:

   Close Encounter At Great Orme - UFO UpDates - Toronto [54]
   Is NASA Awash With 'UFOs'? - Larry W. Bryant [76]
   Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers - - Gildas Bourdais [13]
   Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers - Shell - Tim Shell [2]
   What Goes With Grolsch Beer Ads About UFOS? - Chris Rutkowski [6]
   It's Official - Bonnybridge Is UFO Capital Of UK - Terry Groff [24]
   Beam Me Up Scottie - Terry Groff [36]
   Re: Zeta Reticuli I & II? - Shell - Tim Shell [10]
   Re: Why I Support Alien Abduction Study - Reason - Cathy Reason [81]
   Burt Rutan's Rocket - GT McCoy [5]
   Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers - Kaeser - Steven Kaeser
   [29]
   Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers - - Dave Vetterick [18]
   Re: Why I Support Alien Abduction Study - Reason - Cathy Reason [46]
   Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers - - Alfred Lehmberg [10]
   Re: Why I Support Alien Abduction Study - Hall - Richard Hall [29]
   Chupacabras On The Prowl Again In Argentia? - Scott Corrales [29]
   Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers - Baiata - Maurizio Baiata
   [25]
   UFOs Seen Across Canada On March 28, 2004 - Chris Rutkowski [148]

  Apr 9:

   John Ford Fund Gets Cash Infusion! - Alfred Lehmberg [14]
   Re: Why I Support Alien Abduction Study - Rimmer - John Rimmer [20]
   UFO Monthly.com - Chris Evers [58]
   Re: Zeta Reticuli I & II? - Friedman - Stanton Friedman [47]
   PRG Update - April 9, 2004 - Stephen G. Bassett [61]
   Re: Burt Rutan's Rocket - Woods - Mike Woods [9]
   First Science Fiction Museum & Hall Of Fame - UFO UpDates - Toronto
   [92]
   "Aliens Did It" Circle Investigator - Brian Vike - HBCC UFO [59]
   Area 51 Microbiologist Ready To Talk - Royce J. Myers III [170]
   Re: Why I Support Alien Abduction Study - Goldstein - Josh Goldstein
   [7]
   Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers - Greg Boone [26]
   Re: Chupacabras On The Prowl Again In Argentia? - - Greg Boone [20]
   Suffolk Forest Yields UFO Surprises - Terry Groff [43]
   Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers - Shell - Tim Shell [8]
   Re: Why I Support Alien Abduction Study - Lehmberg - Alfred Lehmberg
   [11]
   Re: Why I Support Alien Abduction Study - Dickenson - Ray Dickenson
   [19]
   Re: Why I Support Alien Abduction Study - Sandow - Greg Sandow [213]
   Re: Why I Support Alien Abduction Study - Clark - Jerome Clark [56]
   Re: Why I Support Alien Abduction Study - - Virgilio Sanchez-Ocejo [13]
   Dangerous Space Rocks Under Watch - Diana Cammack [61]
   Re: Another Metallic Sound On ISS - Scheldroup - John Scheldroup [29]
   Re: Burt Rutan's Rocket - Scheldroup - John Scheldroup [8]
   Re: Zeta Reticuli I & II? - Scheldroup - John Scheldroup [2]
   Re: Chupacabras On The Prowl Again In Argentia? - - Virgilio
   Sanchez-Ocejo [4]
   Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers - Kaeser - Steven Kaeser
   [23]

  Apr 10:

   Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers - Mantle - Philip Mantle
   [45]
   Re: First Science Fiction Museum & Hall Of Fame - - Bruno Mancusi [6]
   Re: Why I Support Alien Abduction Study - Pope - Nick Pope [15]
   President Stephen G. Bassett? - Larry W. Bryant [35]
   Re: Ripped-Off Map Image By German Site - Joachim Koch [7]

  Apr 11:

   Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers - - Gildas Bourdais [12]
   Re: Jerry Black To Polygraph Bruce Maccabee - Black - Jerry Black [23]
   Re: No Flow Of Gulf Breeze Money - Black - Jerry Black [19]
   A Review of The Meier Contacts - Alfred Lehmberg [222]
   Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers - - Ed Gehrman [39]
   Re: Burt Rutan's Rocket - Balaskas - Nick Balaskas [37]
   Re: Ripped-Off Map Image By German Site - Page - Trevor Page [4]
   Re: Why I Support Alien Abduction Study - Rimmer - John Rimmer [51]
   Re: Why I Support Alien Abduction Study - Rimmer - John Rimmer [30]
   Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers - - John Scheldroup [54]
   Budd Hopkins' UFO Seminar - 04-17-04 NYC - The Intruders Foundation
   Ifinfo1@aol.com [73]
   HBCC UFO Reports - 04-10-04 - Brian Vike - HBCC UFO [108]
   Bassett For President Of The United States! Yes! - Alfred Lehmberg [25]

  Apr 12:

   Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers - - Ed Gehrman [39]
   Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers - - Ed Gehrman [83]
   Re: Ripped-Off Map Image By German Site - Hatch - Larry Hatch [16]

  Apr 13:

   Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers - Koch - Joachim Koch [90]
   Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers - - Ed Gehrman [23]
   Re: Jerry Black To Polygraph Bruce Maccabee - - Bruce Maccabee [18]
   Re: No Flow Of Gulf Breeze Money - Maccabee - Bruce Maccabee [18]
   Re: Ripped-Off Map Image By German Site - Hatch - Larry Hatch [12]
   Re: Zeta Reticuli I & II? - Koch - Joachim Koch [157]
   "Flying To Space Is Very Interesting" - Frank Warren [212]
   UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 9 Number 15 - John Hayes [582]
   Letter From Betty Hill To Velikovsky - Terry W. Colvin [86]
   Re: Dangerous Space Rocks Under Watch - Scheldroup - John Scheldroup
   [21]
   HBCC UFO Reports - 04-13-04 - Brian Vike - HBCC UFO [140]

  Apr 14:

   Spacecraft To Measure Earth's Drag On Space-Time - Frank Warren [69]
   Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers - Shell - Tim Shell [55]
   Spacecraft To Measure Earth's Drag On Space-Time - Frank Warren [69]
   Secrecy News -- 04/14/04 - Steven Aftergood [122]
   Steve Bassett For 'President' #3 - Alfred Lehmberg [41]
   Re: Steve Bassett For 'President' #3 - Lehmberg - Alfred Lehmberg [27]
   Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers - - John Scheldroup [57]
   Filers Files #17 - 2004 - George A. Filer [520]
   Robert A.M. Stephens - Again! - Part I - UFO UpDates - Toronto [265]
   Robert A.M. Stephens - Again! - Part II - UFO UpDates - Toronto [168]
   Re: Steve Bassett For 'President' #3 - Kaeser - Steven Kaeser [12]
   Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers - White - Eleanor White [8]
   Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers - - Ed Gehrman [34]
   Re: The Mystery of Sedna's 'Missing Moon' - - Ray Stanford [9]
   Was This A UFO Over Uldale UK? - Joe McGonagle [23]

  Apr 15:

   Fatal Plane Crash Mystery - UFO UpDates - Toronto [154]
   UFO Sightings May Prompt Investigation - UFO UpDates - Toronto [113]
   Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers - - Ray Stanford [7]
   UFO Displays In Univ. Virginia Astronomy Class - Larry Hatch [30]
   Re: Robert A.M. Stephens - Again! - Part II - Royce J. Myers III [16]
   Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers - - Ed Gehrman [8]
   Re: Steve Bassett For 'President' #3 - Lehmberg - Alfred Lehmberg [31]
   Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers - - Alfred Lehmberg [17]
   Re: The Mystery of Sedna's 'Missing Moon' - - Nick Balaskas [17]
   Re: Another Sonora California Encounter - Stanford - Ray Stanford [80]
   UFOs Believed Sighted Over Iran - Frank Warren [19]
   Re: The Mystery of Sedna's 'Missing Moon' - - Ray Stanford [11]
   Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers - - Gildas Bourdais [21]
   Re: UFOs Believed Sighted Over Iran - Shell - Tim Shell [2]

  Apr 16:

   The WHY? Files Network Additions & Updates - Geoffrey Richardson [19]
   Great Orme Is A Hotspot For UFOs - UFO UpDates - Toronto [30]
   Secrecy News -- 04/15/04 - Steven Aftergood [155]
   A New UFO Magazine - UFO Monthly.com - Philip Mantle [14]
   Peculiar 04-15-04 Sighting In Orlando Forida - Peter Davenport - NUFORC
   [56]
   Re: Was This A UFO Over Uldale UK? - Hale - Roy Hale [12]
   3 New Sightings Maps By UFO Shapes - Larry Hatch [24]
   Re: Fatal Plane Crash Mystery - McCoy - GT McCoy [77]
   Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers - - John Scheldroup [47]
   A Paradigm Shift At UVA? - Larry W. Bryant [215]
   Steve Bassett for 'President' #4 - Alfred Lehmberg [101]
   Re: A New UFO Magazine - UFO Monthly.com - Hale - Roy Hale [9]
   Re: The WHY? Files Network Additions & Updates - - Ray Stanford [21]
   Re: 3 New Sightings Maps By UFO Shapes - Stanford - Ray Stanford [23]

  Apr 17:

   High Strangeness On SDI - Wendy Connors [20]
   Re: Steve Bassett for 'President' #4 - Kaeser - Steven Kaeser [43]
   Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers - - Ed Gehrman [44]
   Re: 3 New Sightings Maps By UFO Shapes - Hatch - Larry Hatch [9]
   Effect Of Childhood Abductions On The Adult? - Luis R. Gonzalez [7]
   Re: Peculiar 04-15-04 Sighting In Orlando Forida - - Larry Hatch [24]
   Brazilian's Freedom Of UFO Information Now - Philip Mantle [30]
   MUFON Investigates Rochester Indiana Sighting - UFO UpDates - Toronto
   [118]
   Re: Steve Bassett for 'President' #4 - Lehmberg - Alfred Lehmberg [155]
   Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers - - John Scheldroup [77]

  Apr 18:

   Re: Star-Trek & UFOs? - Gonzalez - Luis R. Gonzalez [17]
   Re: Star-Trek & UFOs? - Gonzalez - Luis R. Gonzalez [10]
   R.A.M Stephens, Still, At Large - Alfred Lehmberg [90]
   Re: Peculiar 04-15-04 Sighting In Orlando Forida - - Kelly Freeman [16]
   Re: Zeta Reticuli I & II? - Koch - Joachim Koch [163]
   Bible Code II - Linda Kerth [19]

  Apr 19:

   Re: Steve Bassett for 'President' #4 - Kaeser - Steven Kaeser [19]
   Re: The WHY? Files Network Additions & Updates - - Geoffrey Richardson
   [13]
   Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers - - Ed Gehrman [38]
   Re: Meteor Showers Rocks On Midwestern Homes - - Nick Balaskas [15]
   Re: Zeta Reticuli I & II? - Hatch - Larry Hatch [32]
   Re: Bible Code II - Scheldroup - John Scheldroup [19]
   Cache Of The UFO Evidence 1964 Found - Richard Hall [21]
   Re: Chupacabras On The Prowl Again In Argentia? - - Fern Belzil [8]
   Re: Bible Code II - Myers - Royce J. Myers III [8]
   Steve Bassett For President #5 - Alfred Lehmberg [91]
   Any X-Conference Reactions? - Steven Kaeser [6]
   UFO Seen Whizzing Over Winnipeg - Frank Warren [42]
   Re: Steve Bassett for 'President' #4 - Lehmberg - Alfred Lehmberg [53]
   Re: Bible Code II - Dickenson - Ray Dickenson [9]

  Apr 20:

   Re: Bible Code II - White - Eleanor White [13]
   Steve Bassett For President #5 - Page - Trevor Page [12]
   Humanoid Reports 01 - 04 2004 - Albert Rosales [737]
   Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers - - Gildas Bourdais [5]
   Re: Steve Bassett For President #5 - Lehmberg - Alfred Lehmberg [19]
   Re: Effect Of Childhood Abductions On The Adult? - - Nick Pope [12]
   Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers - Kaeser - Steven Kaeser
   [24]
   UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 9 Number 16 - John Hayes [773]
   Re: High Strangeness On SDI - Balaskas - Nick Balaskas [19]
   Re: Bible Code II - Sandow - Greg Sandow [15]
   Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers - - Ed Gehrman [19]
   Mars Rover Anomalies - John Scheldroup [18]
   Re: Steve Bassett For President #5 - Reitnauer - Jonathan Reitnauer
   [29]

  Apr 21:

   Re: Bible Code II - Dickenson - Ray Dickenson [36]
   'Other Folk' Or 'Parallel Race' Theme - Terry W. Colvin [96]
   [SO] The X-Conference Revealed - UFO UpDates - Toronto [50]
   Return To Magonia Project - Rod Brock [30]
   City Nuts For UFOs - Terry Groff [52]
   2004 Lyrid Meteor Shower - Ray Stanford [12]
   200 Page Brazilian Operation Saucer Available As - A. J. Gevaerd -
   Revista UFO [88]

  Apr 22:

   Re: Bible Code II - Conway - Richard Conway [14]
   Re: Mars Rover Anomalies - Stevenson - Colin Stevenson [17]
   Filers Files #18 - 2004 - George A. Filer [523]
   Re: 'Other Folk' Or 'Parallel Race' Theme - Clark - Jerome Clark [15]
   Secrecy News -- 04/21/04 - Steven Aftergood [183]
   Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers - - Ed Gehrman [56]
   Re: 200 Page Brazilian Operation Saucer Available - John Scheldroup
   [40]
   Re: Any X-Conference Reactions? - Maccabee - Bruce Maccabee [7]
   Re: 'Other Folk' Or 'Parallel Race' Theme - Aubeck - Chris Aubeck [62]
   Re: Bible Code II - Velez - John Velez [46]
   Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers - Kaeser - Steven Kaeser
   [41]
   Steve Bassett 'American Candidate' #6 - Alfred Lehmberg [77]
   Are We Making Any Ground Toward Disclosure? - Greg boone [19]
   Re: Any X-Conference Reactions? - Pope - Nick Pope [25]
   Marrs Attacks Official 'Secrecy' On Aliens - Groff - Terry Groff [106]
   Re: Any X-Conference Reactions? - Adams - Brian Adams [5]
   Re: Bible Code II - Dickenson - Ray Dickenson [48]
   Re: Mars Rover Anomalies - Adams - Brian Adams [8]
   Re: Magonia's Second Website - John Rimmer [9]
   Moon UFO No Longer Unidentified - UFO UpDates - Toronto [42]
   MJ-12 Documentary - Paul Kimball [26]
   Re: Are We Making Any Ground Toward Disclosure? - - Tin Shell [3]
   Albanian Close Encounters? - Albert Rosales [9]
   Re: 'Other Folk' Or 'Parallel Race' Theme - Hatch - Larry Hatch [6]

  Apr 23:

   Re: 'Other Folk' Or 'Parallel Race' Theme - Clark - Jerome Clark [17]
   No Wonder The Press Bypasses UFOs - Greg Boone [43]
   Re: Mars Rover Anomalies - Groff - Terry Groff [7]
   Re: Moon UFO No Longer Unidentified - Groff - Terry Groff [8]
   Re: Mars Rover Anomalies - Scheldroup - John Scheldroup [16]
   Re: Bible Code II - Kerth - Linda Kerth [37]
   NARA Cops Out - Larry W. Bryant [49]
   Re: Mars Rover Anomalies - Grass - Robert Grass [5]
   Re: Albanian Close Encounters? - Hatch - Larry Hatch [28]
   Secrecy News -- 04/23/04 - Steven Aftergood [212]
   X-Conference Draws Hundreds To Gaithersburg - UFO UpDates - Toronto
   [144]
   Re: Bible Code II - Shell - Tim Shell [17]
   Re: Albanian Close Encounters? - Aubeck - Chris Aubeck [32]

  Apr 24:

   Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers - - Ed Gehrman [61]
   Re: 'Other Folk' Or 'Parallel Race' Theme - Hatch - Larry Hatch [10]
   St Tropez France UFO Photos - Brian Vike HBCC UFO [56]
   Silvery But Translucent Saucer Terrace, B.C. - Brian Vike HBCC UFO [28]
   Re: Mars Rover Anomalies - Scheldroup - John Scheldroup [9]
   Re: Are We Making Any Ground Toward Disclosure? - - Kelly Freeman [27]
   Re: Moon UFO No Longer Unidentified - Groff - Terry Groff [7]
   Re: Magonia's Second Website - Hale - Roy Hale [5]
   Re: X-Conference Draws Hundreds To Gaithersburg - - Bruce Maccabee [4]
   Re: X-Conference Draws Hundreds To Gaithersburg - Bruce Maccabee [11]
   Mars Crater Water Lake - Colin Stevenson [14]
   UFOs A Modest Proposal - Josh Crockett [56]
   Re: Albanian Close Encounters? - Hatch - Larry Hatch [19]
   Re: X-Conference Draws Hundreds To Gaithersburg - - Alfred Lehmberg
   [86]
   Re: Moon UFO No Longer Unidentified - Fleming - Lan Fleming [22]
   Re: Are We Making Any Ground Toward Disclosure? - - Alfred Lehmberg
   [29]
   Re: X-Conference Draws Hundreds To Gaithersburg - - Eleanor White [6]
   Re: Magonia's Second Website - Harney - John Harney [11]

  Apr 25:

   Re: Magonia's Second Website - Rimmer - John Rimmer [6]
   Southern California High Desert Report - Brian Vike - HBCC UFO [45]
   Re: Mars Crater Water Lake - Shell - Tim Shell [11]
   Re: "Exopolitics" - White - Eleanor White [18]
   Re: Mars Crater Water Lake - Freeman - Kelly Freeman [15]
   Re: Mars Crater Water Lake - Freeman - Kelly Freeman [8]

  Apr 26:

   UFOs Over Iranian Cities - Brian Vike - HBCC UFO [39]
   Budd Hopkins' UFO Seminar - May 22, 2004 (NYC) - The Intruders
   Foundation [71]
   Vancouver BC Area - 04-14-04 - Brian Vike - HBCC UFO [85]
   Leah Haley To Speak At May MUFON Meetings - Marc Davenport [19]
   Strange Animal Deaths In Chile - Scott Corrales [36]
   Unpublished Interviews With Kenneth Arnold - Dave Haith [14]

  Apr 27:

   NARA Mitigates Its Cop-Out - Larry W. Bryant [55]
   Re: Magonia's Second Website - Hale - Roy Hale [3]
   Meadow California Report - 04-23-04 - Brian Vike HBCC UFO [43]
   Florida Today Editorial - UFO UpDates - Toronto [58]
   Secrecy News -- 04/27/04 - Steven Aftergood [88]
   UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 9 Number 17 - John Hayes [603]
   Bill Hamilton Announces Retirement - UFO UpDates - Toronto [25]
   Re: Mars Crater Water Lake - Stevenson - Colin Stevenson [15]
   Argentine Shepherds Feared UFO Abduction - Scott Corrales [63]

  Apr 28:

   St. Catharines, Ontario Sighting 1999 - Brian Vike - HBCC UFO [47]
   Disappointing Release Of UK's New UFO Monthly - Santiago Yturria [102]
   Tress Splitting & Blue Flashes Fernie B.C. - Brian Vike - HBCC UFO [46]
   Government Secrecy Exposed With 14 Million+ Hits - John Greenewald, Jr.
   [50]
   They Are Aliens & They Came To Ilkley Moor - Terry Groff [43]
   The Lobizon Rides Again In Argentina - Scott Corrales [32]
   Chile: New Chupacabras Attacks In South America - Scott Corrales [62]
   Evidence Of Patagonian Impact Crater? - Scott Corrales [46]
   UFOs In Iranian Skies? - Frank Warren [16]
   National Post Article On Majic - Stanton Friedman [32]
   Richard Dolan's X-Conference Review - UFO UpDates - Toronto [140]
   Rock with Embedded Manmade-Like Component - Walt Williams [13]
   May's Sky And Telescope - Stanton Friedman [17]
   UFO Fever Grips Iran - UFO UpDates - Toronto [36]
   Basque Country UFO Over Atxondo - Scott Corrales [44]
   Re: May's Sky And Telescope - Shell - Tim Shell [12]
   Filers Files #19 - 2004 - George A. Filer [527]
   Re: National Post Article On Majic - Kimball - Paul Kimball [38]

  Apr 29:

   Re: Government Secrecy Exposed With 14 Million+ - Bruce Maccabee [2]
   Re: May's Sky And Telescope - Scheldroup - John Scheldroup [4]
   Re: Evidence Of Patagonian Impact Crater? - - Ray Stanford [7]
   Re: May's Sky And Telescope - Colvin - Terry W. Colvin [11]
   New Digests Posted At The Magonia Exchange Website - Rod Brock [49]
   Re: Rock With Embedded Manmade-Like Component - - Larry Hatch [14]
   New Maps - Missing Time & Abductions - Larry Hatch [26]
   Re: UFO Fever Grips Iran - Dickenson - Ray Dickenson [10]
   UFO Sighting In Ucu Yucatan - Scott Corrales [54]
   UFOs Over Nolo Yucatan - Scott Corrales [33]
   Re: Rock With Embedded Manmade-Like Component - - Tin Shell [10]
   Mysterious Wounds On Dead Chilean Sheep - Scott Corrales [36]
   Re: Rock With Embedded Manmade-Like Component - - Rod Brock [11]
   MP3s And Ufology's Audio History - Wendy Connors [35]
   Re: National Post Article On Majic - Kimball - Paul Kimball
   Kimballwood@aol.com [12]
   Re: Moon UFO No Longer Unidentified - Oberg - James Oberg [12]

  Apr 30:

   Re: New Maps - Missing Time & Abductions - Tonnies - Mac Tonnies [7]
   Re: Richard Dolan's X-Conference Review - Gates - Robert Gates [7]
   Pravda On "Mass Disappearances" - Kenny Young [143]
   Cattle Mute Near Winnepeg - UFO UpDates - Toronto [57]
   Will-O-The Wisps - Terry W. Colvin [49]
   Re: Richard Dolan's X-Conference Review - Lehmberg - Alfred Lehmberg
   [49]
   Re: Richard Dolan's X-Conference Review - Kaeser - Steven Kaeser [11]
   Re: Richard Dolan's X-Conference Review - Hamilton - Bill Hamilton [28]
   Re: Pravda On "Mass Disappearances" - Stanford - Ray Stanford [43]
   The Acevedo Abduction - Scott Corrales [87]
   Re: Richard Dolan's X-Conference Review - Lehmberg - Alfred Lehmberg
   [16]
   Re: Pravda On "Mass Disappearances" - Bueche - Will Bueche [14]
   Re: Richard Dolan's X-Conference Review - Kaeser - Steven Kaeser [7]
   Re: Pravda On "Mass Disappearances" - Hamilton - Bill Hamilton [49]
   The Black Vault Television Series Begins Filming - John Greenewald Jr.
   [51]
   Secrecy News -- 04/30/04 - Steven Aftergood [149]

   The number enclosed in brackets is the number of lines of new text in





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   Apr > Apr 1

                        UFO Like '50,000 Spotlights'

From: Terry Groff <terry.nul>
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 18:09:13 -0600
Fwd Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 13:01:50 -0500
Subject: UFO Like '50,000 Spotlights'


UFO like '50,000 spotlights'

Herald Sun -  Melbourne Australia

http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5478,9150852%255E1702,00.ht
ml

01apr04

RESIDENTS of the outback town of Winton saw a flash 'like 50,000
spotlights' as a huge fireball crashed to earth somewhere in
central Queensland late yesterday.

Authorities are trying to track down the source of a large
fireball seen in the sky over the state's north and central
west. Speculation has ranged from space junk to a meteorite.

"We only know it wasn't an aircraft," a spokesman for the
Australian Search and Rescue Organisation said.

But in Winton Elsa Nelms and her partner Graeme East had front
row seats for the spectacular light show, sitting on their
verandah at dusk talking business with a friend.

 "Suddenly there was this flash, it's the only way I can
describe it - it was so bright it was a white flash and it lit
everything up," Ms Nelms said.

"It was like somebody had turned on 50,000 spotlights."

"We all looked up in the sky and there was a white smoke trail
coming from the north-east - like a firecracker smoke trail but
it was too high to even be an aircraft."

Ms Nelms said she had gone into her backyard to lock her dog in
a pen when the house shook.

"While I was putting him away there was a rumble like thunder a
long way away.

"I missed the action up in the house but my partner said the
eaves shook and the roof rattled."

She said the whole of Winton either saw or felt the event, with
phones ringing all over town and people coming out of their
houses to see what was going on.

"The neighbours came over and they were white-faced," she said.

Ms Nelms said she later spoke by phone to friends living 130km
outside Winton who had seen the flash but not felt the rumble.

"There's probably is a big hole somewhere - but had this fallen
on Winton we probably wouldn't be sitting here talking about
it," Ms Nelms said.








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   Apr > Apr 1

              Book Exposes British Government's UFO Top Secrets

From: Nick Redfern <Skywatcher4u.nul>
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 13:33:14 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 13:06:22 -0500
Subject: Book Exposes British Government's UFO Top Secrets



Press Release:
New Book Reveals British Government's UFO Secrets

A Covert Agenda: The British Government's UFO Top Secrets Exposed
By
Nick Redfern

Published By:
Paraview Special Editions, 2004. $14.95

For half a century, a conspiracy of silence has existed at the highest
levels of the British Government to prevent the general public from
learning the shocking facts which lie behind one of the most emotive
issues of our time - unidentified flying objects. Now that silence has
been broken.

In A Covert Agenda, Nick Redfern reveals the details of hundreds of pages
of previously classified British Ministry of Defense and Royal Air Force
files on UFOs. He has interviewed Royal Air Force pilots, radar operators
and Ministry of Defense civil servants appointed to investigate UFOs.
A Covert Agenda demonstrates that the emerging, official picture is a
highly disturbing one: unidentified flying objects are routinely
penetrating our airspace and the military infrastructure has little or no
control over the situation.

For further details see:

http://www.paraview.com/press_releases/apr1_2004.htm









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                             Time Travel & UFOs

From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 23:58:11 EST
Fwd Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 13:07:23 -0500
Subject: Time Travel & UFOs


Why is it the more I study the subject of 'time' the more it
looks like it doesn't exist?

So is the future the past, the past the future?

Like the character of Capt. Janeway on 'Star Trek: Voyager' it
all gives me a headache.

Yet in studying UFOs that subject comes up in more than one
area. Just wondering about any recommended references regarding
the subject of 'time travel'.

I did hear Mr. Friedman say at a lecture, and forgive me if I
misquote but I recall him saying:

"The future is not an extrapolation of the past"


Best,

Greg








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                     Request For Coordination Assistance

From: Larry W. Bryant <overtci.nul>
Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 01:26:55 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 13:09:40 -0500
Subject: Request For Coordination Assistance


To: Hon. John W. Warner <To: senator.nul>
United States Senate
Washington, DC 20510

From: Larry W. Bryant
3518 Martha Custis Drive
Alexandria, VA 22302

DATE: April 1, 2004

Referring to the enclosed copy of my April 1, 2004, FOIA request
to the U. S. National Archives and Records Administration, I
want you to know that the principal whistleblower in this matter
has provided me a notarized "John Doe affidavit" attesting to
his officially acquired knowledge of the reported incident.

Mr. "Doe" has authorized me to notify you of his willingness to
testify during any relevant investigation deemed appropriate by
the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence (and/or any other
congressional committee). Accordingly, I ask that you forward
this letter (with its enclosures) to the chairman of that
committee, and that you inform me of the committee's designated
point-of-contact through whom I and Mr. "Doe" may continue
coordination on this public issue long overdue for resolution.

Please note that your assisting me with this coordination can
strengthen both the committee's oversight function and the
public's right to know what happened (and why) during and after
this pivotal incident in the history of U. S. operations in
space.

By snail-mail, I'm sending to you a signed printout of this e-
formatted letter.



LARRY W. BRYANT

Copies furnished to:

Mark S. Zaid, Esq. (Washington, D.C.)

"John Doe"

TEXT OF LWB's FOIA REQUEST TO NARA (4/01/04):

To: Archivist of the United States
U. S. National Archives and Records Administration
ATTN: Freedom of Information Manager
8601 Adelphi Road -- Room 3110
College Park, MD 20740-6001

From: Larry W. Bryant
3518 Martha Custis Drive
Alexandria, VA 22302

DATE: April 1, 2004

Referring to the enclosed copy of an advertisement printed in
the April 18, 2003, edition of the Fort Myer, Va., "Pentagram"
newspaper (titled "Blow the Whistle on 'Hostile Aerial Craft'"),
I hereby submit this freedom-of-information request for access
to all NARA-housed records pertaining to the "hostile aerial
craft" satellite-interference incident referred to in the ad.

In your search for all responsive records, please include the
retired records of such proponent agencies as the Defense
Intelligence Agency (including defense attache files), the
Central Intelligence Agency (including the CIA-generated
"Presidential Daily Briefs"), the intelligence-
gathering/reporting elements of the Air Force/Army/Navy/Marine
Corps/Coast Guard, the State Department (including intelligence-
service and embassy files), the National Security Agency
(including NSA-produced signals-intelligence files), the
National Aeronautics and Space Administration, the DOD National
Military Command Center at the Pentagon, the National
Reconnaissance Office, the Defense Advanced Research Projects
Agency, and the Department of Justice (including the Federal
Bureau of Investigation).

To facilitate your search, you might wish to focus on the fact
that such an incident of "hostile aerial craft's" interference
with sensitive U. S. government property would've been brought
to the priority attention of the highest officials in many of
the agencies cited above. Accordingly, I request that the NARA
search include your submitting to those officials (past and
current) a written request that they provide you with all
practical leads and sources toward tracking down, accounting
for, and preserving this "essential evidence" of an historic
event yet to be officially disclosed to the public.

In my capacity as a columnist for the Internet website of
UFOcity.com, I hereby ask that you waive all records-search fees
incident to your fulfilling this FOIA request.

I'm snail-mailing to you a signed printout of this e-formatted
letter.


LARRY W. BRYANT

Copies furnished to:

Mark S. Zaid, Esq. (Washington, D.C.)

Peter Robbins, Editor-in-Chief, http://www.ufocity.com

Chairman, U. S. Senate Select Committee on Intelligence

TEXT OF THE "PENTAGRAM" AD (4/18/03):

 Blow the Whistle on "Hostile Aerial Craft"

A brand-new UFO-coverup whistleblower has stepped forward to
relay his account of having witnessed some "smoking gun" telexes
during his security-guard duty in 1975 at the U. S. embassy in
Canberra, Australia. Emanating from the Tidbinbilla tracking
range, these electronic messages reported hostile interference
from UFOs with some of our supersecret military satellites. The
reports characterized the interlopers as "hostile aerial craft."
If you (or someone you know) have confirmatory evidence of those
reports, please contact Larry W. Bryant at.... Be assured that
at least one congressional committee would be interested in
evaluating and correlating any evidence you choose to share with
us.









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                        PRG/X-PPAC Update - 02-01-04

From: Stephen Bassett <ParadigmRG.nul>
Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 03:28:31 EST
Fwd Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 13:15:04 -0500
Subject: PRG/X-PPAC Update - 02-01-04



PRG
Paradigm Research Group


X-Conference

The Hilton Gaithersburg Hotel is very close to being booked-up.
If you are registered or are about to register for the
conference and you want to stay at the conference hotel, you
will need to book your rooms ASAP. As soon as the Hilton is
full, another hotel five blocks away will be brought on line and
information will be placed on the website. There will be free
shuttle service between these hotels. The X-Conference booking
code is PAR. Hilton Hotel phone numbers are: 800-774-1500 or
301-977-8900.

As of April 1 the advance booking rates have been replaced by
same-day rates, but conference packages still offer savings over
a la carte purchases.

Also, air passenger levels are still below average, and a quick
survey of national air fares confirms that economy ticket prices
are generally still available right up until 7 days from
departure dates.

www.x-conference.com


X-Conference Media Coverage

As of March 31, 2004, 26 press passes were reserved, mostly
alternative media. Mainstream journalists usually wait until
just before an event before requesting press credentials, so the
press presence should increase substantially by conference
weekend.

An interview with conference director, Stephen Bassett, will air
April 11, on "Independent Expressions," the 10 pm EST Sunday
evening member netcast on the website of Shirley MacLaine. The
X-Conference will also be mentioned to the shirleymaclaine.com
members in their upcoming newsletter. The netcast is at:
www.shirleymaclaine.com/i-expression/ieradioschedule.html

Other media appearances includes:

Strange Days... Indeed - Saturday, April 10, 9:30 pm,
CFRB 1010 AM Toronto Netcast


MUFON Symposium

Stephen Bassett will present to MUFON's 35th Annual Symposium to
be held at the Denver Marriott South East the weekend of July
16-18, 2004. His topic will be "Deception, Denial and
Disclosure: the Exopolitical Revolution." Stephen is honored to
speak to the largest and oldest extraterrestrial-related
phenomena research organization in the world. Does this
organization have a role in the "exopolitical revolution"
leading to the most profound secular event in human history? Is
there a time for politics and science to be mixed? Come to
Denver and find out. Full Symposium information at:

http://www.comufon.org/

Other scheduled conference appearances:

Ancient of Day Conference - Roswell, NM - July 2-4,
Paraworld Expo - October 21-24 - Los Angeles


2004: Get Out the Questions

PRG's political action committee, X-PPAC, will soon put out a
national press release announcing the next iteration of its
biannual project, "2004: Get Out the Questions." The purpose of
this project is to encourage citizens to asked any and all
federal candidates during the 2004 campaigns what their views
and positions are regarding extraterrestrial-related phenomena
and the alleged government truth embargo. It is most helpful if
these questions can be posed on camera or on microphone. Just a
handful of such questions picked up by the campaign media
coverage could have dramatic effect. www.x-ppac.org

_____________________________________________________

Paradigm Research Group
E-mail: ParadigmRG.nul
URL: www.paradigmclock.com
Cell: 202-431-2459
4938 Hampden Lane, #161
Bethesda, MD 20814
_____________________________________________________

1st Annual Exopolitics Expo - The X-Conference
Hilton Washington DC North/Gaithersburg - April 16-18, 2004
www.x-conference.com










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   Apr > Apr 1

                       Re: Polar Orbiters? - Dickenson

From: Ray Dickenson <editor.nul>
Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 12:26:12 +0100
Fwd Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 13:16:44 -0500
Subject: Re: Polar Orbiters? - Dickenson


>From: Eleanor White <eleanor.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 16:29:20 -0500
>Subject: Polar Orbiters?

>Has anyone investigated references to at least one polar
>orbiting satellite discovered during the Sputnik era,
>and presumed therefore not of Earthly origin?

Eleanor, thanks for the incentive,

Some folk might have already found this quote from:

http://www.violations.dabsol.co.uk/probe/probepart2.htm

"Dr. Luis Corralos, a Venezuelan astronomer working for his
National Communications Ministry, discovered an unclear image of
an unknown object apparently trailing Sputnik II, the Soviet
satellite launched on 4th November 1957. Investigations were
instigated but no public explanation has ever been given... on
4th January 1960, not one but two objects of sizeable
proportions were detected in polar orbit. These objects were
estimated to weigh 15 tons each (compared to the largest US
satellite of that time which weighed only 500lbs or the Soviet�s
3000lb.)... US National Space Surveillance Control Centre
(NSSCC) formally admitted that an unidentified �satellite� was
in polar orbit, although with a rider that a natural explanation
would probably be forthcoming at a later date. It wasn�t, or at
least none was made available."

and further on, giving report of different type of "unknown"
satellite

"Duncan Steel... University of Adelaide in Australia... object
discovered... late 1991 in orbit around the Sun could be a
candidate for an alien probe. This 10 metre object was
discovered by the Spacewatch telescope at Kitt Peak Observatory
in November 1991 and named �1991 VG�. It was later observed in
April 1992... Steel concluded that the object might be an alien
probe because of two unusual characteristics... exhibited rapid
variations in brightness .. distinct and different reflectivity,
highly unusual for small asteroids... object has an Earth-like
orbit...concluded that there could be only three possibilities
... either an asteroidal body, a man-made spacecraft or an alien
artefact of some kind... man-made spacecraft could easily be
ruled out... equally dismissed the idea of it being an
asteroid... admitted that he could not prove that the probe was
of alien origin any more than he could prove it was of another
origin."

Trying for hard details of polar orbit sats. is otherwise a no-go
area, probably 'cos many of them (post 'mid-60's) were spy sats.
and presumably still verboten to discuss (see "Perceptions" index
for CIA).
Some (uninformative) official sites:

http://www.nasda.go.jp/about/history_e.html re NASDA history

and

http://www.fas.org/spp/military/facility/vafb-over.htm

http://www.fas.org/spp/military/program/nssrm/initiatives/westrang.htm

re Cooke AFB (now Vandenberg AFB) being the only USA-based
polar-orbit launch facility


Cheers

Ray D

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Perceptions" http://www.perceptions.couk.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~







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   Apr > Apr 1

                 Re: Notorious Reed UFO Fraud Re-Surfaces -

From: Josh Goldstein <lovolution.nul>
Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 04:18:01 -0800
Fwd Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 13:18:41 -0500
Subject: Re: Notorious Reed UFO Fraud Re-Surfaces -


>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 16:03:14 -0800
>Subject: Re: Notorious Reed UFO Fraud Re-Surfaces

>>From: Royce J. Myers III <ufowatchdog.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 10:33:05 -0800
>>Subject: Notorious Reed UFO Fraud Re-Surfaces

>>Believe it or not.....

>>http://www.ufowatchdog.com/reedreturn.html


>That is amazing. Video tapes, $25 or 180 Pesos in Spanish and
>English. I suppose it was easier to resurrect the old story into
>a new market, than to come up with a new tale in the old one.

>Do you remember the Art Bell show guest "Mel" with his famous
>"Mel's Hole"?... a bottomless pit in Washington State, complete
>with government coverup and a military takeover? Unlike "Doctor"
>Reed, Mel somehow wore out Mel's hole, or maybe he painted
>himself out of the picture inadvertently. So what's he do? He
>goes out and finds _another_ one! Even Art Bell had a hard time
>playing along with that. Lets see if George Noory lets Dr. Reed
>on the air again.


Larry and Royce,

We've known each other many moons. At this time we need to
develop a training camp, teach and organise a covert network of
serious UFO researchers to go after Reed and his ilk just like
we are going after Bin Laden.  All candidates must be determined
first by a full security screening and one intense day for us to
make or break them before their written and oral entrance exams.
Once we have trained enough covert warriors we can set up cells
around the world. For example, we will have a Mexican cell to go
after Jaime Musson.

We can meet in Pescadero, California over artichoke soup and
dinner  in the back room of Emma's restaurant. That room is
secure, the wmployees all have clearances and the entire place
is surrounded with an active Faraday cage.

I have contacts so we can use facilities at decommisioned Fort
Ord. It is the same facility used to train Mulder and Scully in
advanced present and future action (they are also on board this
project as instructors).

The Art Bell and George Noory station will be taken down from
our cell that is already trained out at Area 51.

Gentlemen, I just wanted to give you a couple of ideas of
possible future missions. However, remember that this will be a
worldwide effort and it will radically transform the world of
UFOlogy. Those mental terrorists will just disappear with a few
things planted to blame it on Chupacabras.This a call for a
UFOhad to go after those UFOjihadists who lie out of both sides
of their mouth without having any sense of what is factual, and
what is fantasy that they spin. This is time for a New No Spin
Zone in UFOlogy.

Are you on the bus or off the bus? If we could take down Satan
Hussein and the Taliban we can take care of those clowns. It is
a preemptive mission because those fools are destroying the
credibility of UFOlogy.

Potential candidates will be contacted once we have developed a
leadership able to carry out the program.

Larry and Royce, please come to the planning meeting with your
lists of potential agent candidates.

Remember that we do not screen with polygraphs.We have better
methods that are more truthful. The person screened may get
banged up a bit with

slight injuries but this method is nearly infallible. If they
lie they are only further injuring themselves as at some point
we apply the second phase techniques. If they have lied through
phase one then we set their pants on fire. If that does not
break them we will apply stage three techniques that I will
discuss at our meeting.


In Victory,

Josh








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               Re: Methane Find On Mars May Be Sign Of Life -

From: Josh Goldstein <lovolution.nul>
Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 05:02:36 -0800
Fwd Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 13:20:57 -0500
Subject: Re: Methane Find On Mars May Be Sign Of Life -


>From: Colin Stevenson <colsweb.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 11:03:06 +0100
>Subject: Re: Methane Find On Mars May Be Sign Of Life

>>From: Josh Goldstein <lovolution.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 03:51:21 -0800
>>Subject: Re: Methane Find On Mars May Be Sign Of Life

<snip>

>>>Well, that explains the Martian "UFO." Swamp gas!

>>I found that report fascinating. But you forgot to mention that
>>with all the speculation about aliens a lot bigger than
>>microbes, they may be advanced subterranean dwellers farting
>>from underground along with kazillions of microbes. That may
>>well be why the methane level is so high on Mars. :-)

>>I was somewhat amazed that besides the good stuff on this List a
>>number of people are so desparate to confirm that there are or
>>were advanced lifeforms on Mars that they speculate over little
>>marks on rocks or try to show lousy quality photos of Mars
>>terrain designs to prove that only aliens could have made them.
>>Of course George Filer is the deluded leader of that pack.

>>I live in the wild west of California therefore I operate using
>>frontier justice. That drives me to a frenzy that "factless
>>truth speculaters" fail to start their missives saying I imagine
>>that X is made by... but try to claim their fantasies as "the
>>truth". Then again that applies to a great many people in our
>>world who have been interested in Ufos.

>>Here in Santa Cruz, CA the sherriff of surfing says "I pronounce
>>that you get evidential or get out of town!. If not we will shoot
>>off your woodie."

>And how do we know where to look for evidence if it isn't for
>the very people you attack who point us to it?

Colin, as usual you don't understand and obviously do not
understand the parts that are a semi-sarcastic joke. The only
people I am talking about are those who make claims that
innocuous terrestial features on Mars _must_ be from aliens.

>And how do we test a hypothesis if we don't have any?

I would suggest one not form any hypothesis until one has gotten
some education in Martian geology or at least run the questions
past a couple of people who are professionals in that field. In
addition, accept the recent photos of the face on Mars as an
example of how people can be fooled by light, shadows, and a
bunch of rocks.. Don't get really wacky and try to show that
there are giant spires on the moon that were alien super
skyscrapers.

The discovery of methane on Mars was not anticipated  but the
readings came from the proper measuring equipment. The same for
what has been discovered on the surface of Mars through our
rovers. The findings in the soil, terrain, and water left on
Mars each confirmed some former hypothesis that was formed from
the orbital missions and detected through scientific
instruments. We have also discovered some new things that are
being evaluated. But these things are never promoted as actual
facts until they have been vetted by peers through their own
testing of the evidence.


Keep your head in the sky and your feet on the ground,

Josh








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                  Progressive First to Offer UFO Insurance

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 13:23:27 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 13:23:27 -0500
Subject: Progressive First to Offer UFO Insurance





Source: Business Wire

http://home.businesswire.com/portal/site/google/index.jsp?ndmViewId=news_view&ne
wsId040401005072&newsLang=en

April 01, 2004


Progressive First to Offer UFO Insurance - In Another Industry
First, Auto Insurer Pulls Your Leg on April Fool's Day

MAYFIELD VILLAGE, Ohio--(BUSINESS WIRE)--April 1, 2004

Forget the questions about deductibles and limits--let's get to
the real issues. If your car is damaged in an alien abduction,
is it covered? And, what do those crop patterns in the shape of
the Progressive logo really mean?

The Web site of the Progressive group of insurance companies,
progressive.com, has taken the day off from serious business to
poke a little fun at itself and the very serious subject of car
insurance. In honor of April Fool's Day, that for-fun-only
observance that dates back to as early as 1582 in France, the
Company's Web site will feature insurance for UFOs, urging all
drivers, uh, pilots, to buy the coverage they need before
leaving the solar system.

Progressive is the country's third largest auto insurer and was
recently named #1 on the Business Week 50 ranking of all
Standard & Poor's 500 companies.

The Company interviewed the being photographed for the Web site.
Preferring to remain anonymous, it said: "We are a forward-
thinking civilization that's 'out there' and, frankly, we
doubted such an innovative group existed on Earth. Sure, some of
our beings reported encounters with Progressive people in the
past but we passed that off as a hoax and a myth. But, we came,
we saw, and now we're believers."

The being then nibbled on the antenna of one the Company's
trademark Immediate Response Vehicles, walked up the ramp to the
Mother Ship and, using the onboard communicator, said: "The
truth may be out there...but great rates are right here!" The
Mother Ship sped away; a strange series of lights was later
reported in the sky above Progressive headquarters in suburban
Cleveland.

The Progressive group of insurance companies, in business since
1937 provides drivers and aliens (today only) with the most
competitive rates in the galaxy and 24/7, in-person and online
service. The companies offer insurance by phone at 1-800-
PROGRESSIVE, online at progressive.com and through more than
30,000 independent insurance agencies in the U.S. The Common
Shares of the Progressive Corporation, the Mayfield Village,
Ohio-based holding company, are publicly traded at NYSE:PGR.
More information can be found at progressive.com.








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                  West Central Minnesota Sighting & Photos

From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO <hbccufo.nul>
Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 06:26:29 -0800
Fwd Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 13:41:40 -0500
Subject: West Central Minnesota Sighting & Photos


West Central Minnesota Sighting - Photos

Date:  Date: March 31, 2004
Time: Time: 9:30 p.m.

Photos can be viewed at:

http://www.hbccufo.com/index.php

I have continued to see various assorted craft off and on for
well, years. Tonights craft was particulary interesting because
of the apparent shape. Which was different to me. I noticed a
bright flash and went for my camera. The lights hovered in the
eastern sky for about 5 minutes and then diappeared by imploding
or shutting off all at once.

Let me know what enhancements might show on this.

Hope all is well or as well as can be for you and yours Brian.

Thank you to the witness for the report.

HBCC UFO Is following up on this report.

Brian Vike, Director HBCC UFO Research Home - Phone 250 845 2189
email: hbccufo.nul Website: http://www.hbccufo.com

In describing the brilliant flash - I would say an electric
white/blue, as lightening.

In describing movement =96 It would be best to say it was like
something that had been moving very fast and suddenly stopping.
It had a hanging sense to it as if an unstable slight spin. The
turning was slow and it gave an appearance of adjusting the
actual lights. The lights appeared to have a sequencing effect.
To say they went from odd positions to a more uniform alignment.
After they came into =91straight line=92 forming a V with an odd
nose. A =91W=92 type of nose. Then they just faded down and a quick
white/blue flash and it was gone.

I do not know what direction it came from. I can only say it
=91materialised=92 in the eastern sky. With the exception of
maneuvering the lights it made no drastic moves. I do not know
which way it went because it seemed to implode or leave in the
manner in which it appeared. Flash and gone.

The sky was clear. All other natural and satellite features were
in normal placement. The temperature was in the 20=92sF. Slight
breeze.

To take a wild guess as to elevation of object I would say just
above small craft path. The placement was toward the lake. I
think it was above the lake. The lake is 7 blocks east downhill
from my home.

To describe structure I would call it a very interesting bit of
=91piecework=92. I mean to say it was not in alignment when it first
=91appeared=92. It performed some kind of structuring act.

It may be best to call it W shaped. I say that because though it
was V in overall shape, at least by the manipulating of the
lights it also formed an indent like the W or a ^ at the V
center.

I did not detect any sound other then a humming sensation at the
top of my head.

Myself and my dog and cat were the witnesses for this that I am
aware of.  The cat a HUGE Orange Tom Tabby went to the west in
the bit of thicket to hunt. The dog a miniature Schnauzer/Lhasa
(Benji) was mildly distressed. He could hear something and
wanted to go into the house. He growled for sometime but that
could be because he does not like his cat to be hunting in the
dark! We have sighted strange black dogs=85they look like hienna=92s
in stature, they stalk the deer trail through the west hillside.

Thank you for your time. I bring this one up because its shape
was new to me. I see allot of oval shaped objects and Spheres.
Orbs abound! I stand contrary to ALL digital orbs being Blurfos.
I have seen hundreds of orbs pass through this part of the
world. They can be seen with the naked eye. They are not an
aftershot. Another words they are there before a picture is even
taken. I have seen =91cloud=92 forms in a number of locations in
this area. They appear to be intelligent and have a set purpose
what that purpose is=85I do not profess to know!


Brian Vike
Director HBCC UFO Research
Home - Phone 250 845 2189
email: hbccufo.nul
Website: http://www.hbccufo.com








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                       'Fifty Planets' Could Have Life

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 13:52:33 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 13:52:33 -0500
Subject: 'Fifty Planets' Could Have Life




Source: BBC News Online

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/3588721.stm

1 April, 2004


'Fifty Planets' Could Have Life
By Helen Briggs
BBC News Online science staff


Astronomers estimate about half the planetary systems so far
discovered in our galaxy could contain Earth-like worlds.

And they say that space telescopes will be capable of observing
these planets and investigating them to see if they support life
in about 15 years' time.

Scientists have recently discovered more than 100 stars other
than our Sun with planets circling about them.

But they are all giant planets like Jupiter that cannot sustain
life.

Planets more like the Earth should, in theory, exist too. But
they are too small to be seen using current technology.

Computer modelling

Research work by the UK's Open University suggests there are
perhaps 50 or so of these small, rocky bodies on which there is
liquid water and possibly life.

"We would certainly expect them to be something like Earth in
size and in mass, to have a reasonable atmosphere; they'll have
oceans and continents, they'll be potential abodes of life, but
the big question is - has there actually been life there?" OU
astronomer Professor Barrie Jones told BBC News Online.

His team used computer modelling to calculate the likely number
of habitable planets, based on what we know about how planets
form and the conditions needed for life.

The planets would exist in what is sometimes referred to as the
"Goldilocks" zone, a region set back from the parent star where
it is neither too hot for liquid water, nor too cold.

By launching "Earths" into a variety of orbits in this zone and
following their progress with the computer model, the small
planets have been found to suffer a variety of fates.

Atmospheric clues

In some systems, the proximity of one or more Jupiter-like
planets results in gravitational ejection of the "Earth" from
anywhere in the habitable zone.

However, in other cases there are safe havens in parts of the
Goldilocks zone, and in the remainder the entire zone is a safe
haven.

Nine of the known exoplanetary systems have been investigated in
detail using this technique, enabling the team to derive the
basic rules that determine the habitability of the remaining 90
or so systems.

At the moment, it is just a theory, but by the middle of the
next decade, we should have the technology to search directly
for Earth-like planets.

The new generation of space telescopes will look for gases given
off by living things in the atmospheres of distant worlds.

Distant wonder

Finding chemicals such as carbon dioxide, water and ozone would
be intriguing evidence of life.

But even if those chemical signs were detected, it would not be
possible to send a space mission, Professor Jones said.

"It's likely the nearest Earth-type world in the habitable zone
would be a few tens of light-years away, maybe 100 light-years
away; that's being optimistic," he told BBC News Online.

"There's not much prospect of travelling to these worlds; all we
can do is rely on instruments orbiting somewhere in the solar
system and making observations.

"I think we could be in the rather frustrating position of
having indirect evidence of life through the nature of the
atmosphere but not being absolutely certain and not having any
prospect of becoming absolutely certain in the foreseeable
future."

Professor Jones gave details of the modelling work at the UK's
National Astronomy Meeting in Milton Keynes.

Its results are more optimistic than a similar study led by Dr
Kristen Menou, of Princeton University, US, last year which
found perhaps less than a quarter of extrasolar planetary
systems might contain Earth-like worlds.


[UFO UpDates thanks Norman for the lead]







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              Re: Notorious Reed UFO Fraud Re-Surfaces - Myers

From: Royce J. Myers III <ufowatchdog.nul>
Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 07:53:13 -0800
Fwd Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 13:57:17 -0500
Subject: Re:  Notorious Reed UFO Fraud Re-Surfaces - Myers


>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 16:03:14 -0800
>Subject: Re: Notorious Reed UFO Fraud Re-Surfaces

>>From: Royce J. Myers III <ufowatchdog.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 10:33:05 -0800
>>Subject: Notorious Reed UFO Fraud Re-Surfaces

>>Believe it or not.....

>>http://www.ufowatchdog.com/reedreturn.html

>That is amazing. Video tapes, $25 or 180 Pesos in Spanish and
>English. I suppose it was easier to resurrect the old story into
>a new market, than to come up with a new tale in the old one.

>Do you remember the Art Bell show guest "Mel" with his famous
>"Mel's Hole"?... a bottomless pit in Washington State, complete
>with government coverup and a military takeover? Unlike "Doctor"
>Reed, Mel somehow wore out Mel's hole, or maybe he painted
>himself out of the picture inadvertently. So what's he do? He
>goes out and finds _another_ one! Even Art Bell had a hard time
>playing along with that. Lets see if George Noory lets Dr. Reed
>on the air again.

Larry,

Yeah, it is amazing that these idiots have the gall to try to
take another swipe at us with this bunk tale. These morons moved
their story to Mexico, with the help of Jaime Maussan (no
surprise), to hawk their story there.

What I find more amazing are the investigators (Maussan, Iaria,
et al) that made claims of absolute proof and endorsed this
fantasy. We were told they had thoroughly investigated
'Dr.Reed', had verified all the witnesses, had documentation to
support the story, and that evidence had been scientifically
evaluated. Of course, this supposed evidence never surfaced and
all involved in the perpetration of this scam brushed it off
and/or crawled back under their rocks.

Mel's Hole? Now there's something that's funny. Amazing that
anyone actually took this story seriously. As for the Reed UFO
Fraud making it back on Coast to Coast, I think that George
Noory is a bit more discerning than Art Bell. Of course, that
isn't to say that Bell won't have them on his weekend
slots...guess we'll wait and see...it seems that there is a
conflict where facts and ratings collide and ratings usually
win.

Regards,

Royce J. Myers III
UFOWATCHDOG.COM











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   Apr > Apr 1

                     Zero-Point Energy Machine On Sale!

From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
Date: Thu,  1 Apr 2004 10:48:26 -0600
Fwd Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 14:06:51 -0500
Subject: Zero-Point Energy Machine On Sale!



http://www.thinkgeek.com/stuff/looflirpa/zero.shtml

I think this should be handy in case of a power outage.








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                Re: Radio Search For ET Draws A Blank - Pope

From: Nick Pope <nick.nul>
Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 19:05:08 +0100
Fwd Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 16:23:53 -0500
Subject: Re: Radio Search For ET Draws A Blank - Pope


>From: Ray Dickenson <editor.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 17:30:47 +0100
>Subject: Radio Search For ET Draws A Blank

<snip>

>"A civilization very much more advanced than we will be engaged
>in a busy communications traffic with its peers; but not with
>us, and not via technologies accessible to us." - from
>"Communication with Extraterrestrial Intelligence" - by Carl
>Sagan (ed.) 1973 p. 366

>and

>"Communication is a universal, but the use of radio is a
>parochial, when we go out into the Galaxy... a radio signal will
>be about as useful as a smoke signal. Communication evolves" -
>from "Evolving the Alien" - by Profs. Jack Cohen & Ian Stewart,
>2002. ISBN 0-09-187927-2

Ray,

And not forgetting my personal favourite, from Terence McKenna:

"To search expectantly for a radio signal from an
extraterrestrial source is probably as culture-bound a
presumption as to search the galaxy for a good Italian
restaurant".

The quote comes from an essay entitled "Tryptamine Hallucinogens
and Consciousness", first published in 1992. John Mack uses the
quote in "Abductions" (page 410 in the issue I have).

Notwithstanding the above, my personal view is that SETI is
worth trying. I look forward to debating this with Stan in the
margins of the X-Conference.


Best wishes,

Nick Pope








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   Apr > Apr 2

             Re: Methane Find On Mars May Be Sign Of Life - Hall

From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 18:34:02 +0000
Fwd Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 07:46:40 -0500
Subject: Re: Methane Find On Mars May Be Sign Of Life - Hall


>From: Josh Goldstein <lovolution.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 05:02:36 -0800
>Subject: Re: Methane Find On Mars May Be Sign Of Life

>>From: Colin Stevenson <colsweb.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 11:03:06 +0100
>>Subject: Re: Methane Find On Mars May Be Sign Of Life

>>>From: Josh Goldstein <lovolution.nul>
>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 03:51:21 -0800
>>>Subject: Re: Methane Find On Mars May Be Sign Of Life

<snip>

>>>I live in the wild west of California therefore I operate using
>>>frontier justice. That drives me to a frenzy that "factless
>>>truth speculaters" fail to start their missives saying I imagine
>>>that X is made by... but try to claim their fantasies as "the
>>>truth". Then again that applies to a great many people in our
>>>world who have been interested in Ufos.

>>>Here in Santa Cruz, CA the sherriff of surfing says "I pronounce
>>>that you get evidential or get out of town!. If not we will shoot
>>>off your woodie."

>>And how do we know where to look for evidence if it isn't for
>>the very people you attack who point us to it?

>Colin, as usual you don't understand and obviously do not
>understand the parts that are a semi-sarcastic joke. The only
>people I am talking about are those who make claims that
>innocuous terrestial features on Mars _must_ be from aliens.

>>And how do we test a hypothesis if we don't have any?

>I would suggest one not form any hypothesis until one has gotten
>some education in Martian geology or at least run the questions
>past a couple of people who are professionals in that field. In
>addition, accept the recent photos of the face on Mars as an
>example of how people can be fooled by light, shadows, and a
>bunch of rocks.. Don't get really wacky and try to show that
>there are giant spires on the moon that were alien super
>skyscrapers.

>The discovery of methane on Mars was not anticipated  but the
>readings came from the proper measuring equipment. The same for
>what has been discovered on the surface of Mars through our
>rovers. The findings in the soil, terrain, and water left on
>Mars each confirmed some former hypothesis that was formed from
>the orbital missions and detected through scientific
>instruments. We have also discovered some new things that are
>being evaluated. But these things are never promoted as actual
>facts until they have been vetted by peers through their own
>testing of the evidence.

>Keep your head in the sky and your feet on the ground,


Now, that closing remark is a motto appropriate for the entire
field. No joshing!

 - Dick










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   Apr > Apr 2

                                 Fairy Rings

From: Martin Shough <mshough.nul>
Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 19:53:33 +0100
Fwd Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 07:48:15 -0500
Subject: Fairy Rings


Source; New Scientist

http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99994833

31 March 04


Exclusive from New Scientist Print Edition.
Mysterious 'fairy circles' defy explanations

The three main theories to explain the origins of the mysterious
"fairy circles" of Namibia have just been dismissed, following
an in-depth study by South African researchers.

"They still remain a mystery," says Gretel van Rooyen, a
botanist at the University of Pretoria, who headed the team
conducting the study.

Fairy circles are discs of completely bare sandy soil anything
from two to 10 metres in diameter. Found exclusively along the
western coastal fringes of the Namib desert in southern Africa,
they are easy to spot because they are barren in the middle yet
have unusually lush perimeters of tall grasses, which stand out
from the otherwise sparse vegetation of the desert.

>From the time researchers began to take an interest in how they
were formed in the early 1970s, three major explanations
emerged: termites, radioactive soil and toxic debris left in the
soil by Euphorbia damarana, the poisonous milkbush plant.

The radioactive soil theory was easily dismissed after van
Rooyen sent samples to the South African Bureau of Standards to
be tested for radioactivity and they were all found to be
negative. "That would have been the perfect explanation," she
says. "But they found no traces."


Dead or alive


To check out the poisonous plant idea, van Rooyen's team located
some milkbushes in the desert - living and dead - and took
samples of soil from underneath. They tried to grow desert
plants on it in the lab and found that the grass species Lolium
multiflorum flourished in the soil, showing there was no toxic
debris to account for the barren patches.

That left just one proposed explanation - that termites mop up
all the seeds on the fairy circles leaving nothing that will
grow. "It's the one most people believe," says van Rooyen.

But when her team dug for termites, or their nests, they found
nothing. "We dug trenches up to two metres deep, but found no
signs or remains," she says.

So where do the circles come from? The researchers have shown
that grasses withered on samples of soil taken from the fairy
circles themselves, but did better than expected when grown on
earth from the lush perimeter, proving that there really does
seem to be something different about the two areas of soil.

Van Rooyen is now following up the possibility that toxic
elements are somehow deposited in the circles. "But even if we
find them, how they came to be there is the next problem." For
the moment, she admits, "we're left with the fairies."








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               Re: Methane Find On Mars May Be Sign Of Life -

From: Lan Fleming <lfleming5.nul>
Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 12:58:24 -0600
Fwd Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 07:50:52 -0500
Subject: Re: Methane Find On Mars May Be Sign Of Life -


>From: Josh Goldstein <lovolution.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 05:02:36 -0800
>Subject: Re: Methane Find On Mars May Be Sign Of Life

<snip>

>I would suggest one not form any hypothesis until one has gotten
>some education in Martian geology or at least run the questions
>past a couple of people who are professionals in that field. In
>addition, accept the recent photos of the face on Mars as an
>example of how people can be fooled by light, shadows, and a
>bunch of rocks..

The Face on Mars is a much better example of how people can be
easily fooled by shoddy propaganda like JPL's infamous "catbox"
dis-enhancement of the 1998 MGS Face image, which was so poor
that the late CNN science reporter John Holliman described it as
a "blotchy white patch that may or may not be the Face on Mars."

The Face is certainly too eroded to conclude that it's
artificial, but it's also certainly not a "bunch of rocks." It's
a single coherent landform with elements of symmetry that have
yet to be explained by JPL's geologists, who apparently prefer
to rely on the shoddy "scientific" enhancements to avoid having
to explain anything.

>Don't get really wacky and try to show that
>there are giant spires on the moon that were alien super
>skyscrapers.

There's definitely been a lot of silly speculation about the
Face, but there is still a serious scientific case for its
artificiality made by scientists who DO know something about
geology - not to mention image processing and interpretation.

>The discovery of methane on Mars was not anticipated  but the
>readings came from the proper measuring equipment.

While there were no specific expectations of methane, such
potential indications of extant life on Mars WERE anticipated by
those who take the artificiality hypothesis regarding the Face
seriously and also by those who see Gil Levin's labeled release
experiment on VIking as compelling evidence for life on Mars
(the two groups are not, of course, the same, but they overlap).
The belated acknowledgement by NASA that there are ancient sea
or lake beds on Mars is another thing that didn't exactly come
as a revelation from out of the blue. Basically, that's 25 year-
old news.








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                           Prophets Of Apocalipse

From: Thiago Luiz Ticchetti <thiagolt.nul>
Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 16:02:19 -0300
Fwd Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 07:51:49 -0500
Subject: Prophets Of Apocalipse


Hello List

I am writing a text on the cases where the aliens show to the
abductees images of the Earth being destroyed by a meteor, or
for climatic storms; I mean everything related to what we are
doing to our planet. Are they the profects of the apocalipse?
Why would they be informing us about? Why the alert? I would
like to know if you have information about it. Do you know some
cases of that type?


--
Thiago Luiz Ticchetti
vice-presidente EBE-ET/Brasilia/DF
International Coordinator UFO Magazine Brazil








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               Re: Radio Search For ET Draws A Blank - Chapman

From: Mary Chapman <alfie107.nul>
Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 11:06:11 -0800
Fwd Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 07:55:48 -0500
Subject: Re: Radio Search For ET Draws A Blank - Chapman


>From: Josh Goldstein <lovolution.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 04:46:43 -0800
>Subject: Re: Radio Search For ET Draws A Blank

>>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 14:11:44 -0800
>>Subject: Re: Radio Search For ET Draws A Blank

<snip>

>>Water is the wellspring of life on this planet of course, and
>>presumably elsewhere.

>>After suitable results are recorded from both groups, those
>>would be compared for any correlations. A third group, religious
>>prophets say, could be used as a control, and/or to settle
>>disputes and inconsistencies.


>Hello 'ol Larry and mind manipulated sweet Eleanor,

>I'd like to offer some things that would make this have a great
>deal more power and a thousand times more ability to make
>contact with _Them_.

<snip>

>And we will also toss in for free the Model IV Ginzu knife plus
>a signed book masterpiece channeled by our master, The Greatest
>Ginzu, In the book you will see the history of the Knife
>Cult.and begin to learn the teachings. by becoming a Ginzu
>devotee you have the rare guft to serve at the beck and call of
>the Greatest Guru, half human, half God. Your life will never be
>the same ever again. You may be the lucky devotee who is chosen
>by The Greatest Guru to bear the next generation Guru or Guruess
>to bring light to this dark world. It is protocol to lick the
>feet of the Guru as a tribute for having received such a
>blessing.

>Only those who have purchased two black box kits will be
>eligible to be chosen by the master.

>GET THEM NOW! THEY ARE RAPIDLY BEING SOLD OUT TWO AT A TIME!

>Hmm, I'm in Santa Cruz, there are so many New Age wackos that it
>would be relativity easy to give weekend workshop for $300,00 a
>pop. I will of course play The Greatest Guru. I would easily
>captivate the deluded folks, Heading north from Big Sur there is
>Carmel, Monterey, Santa Cruz,, San Jose, Silicon Valley, Palo
>Alto, San Francisco, Berkely, Oakland and northern California up
>to Oregon. There literally are millions ready to have their
>pockets.picked and become true believers, I can quickly buy that
>Ferrari I lust for, a car fit for a Godman.

>Damn, why was I cursed by being an honest man? I once again miss
>getting wealthy. <G>The UFO field is always ripe for scams.


Josh,

They say laughter is the best medicine, and I must say that
after reading this last night I am WAY healthier today!!  :^)

By the way... do you suppose you could give me a special_deal_
if I buy four Kits?  Say... four for $2,299.00??


Mary








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              Re: Notorious Reed UFO Fraud Re-Surfaces - Myers

From: Royce J. Myers III <ufowatchdog.nul>
Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 11:12:18 -0800
Fwd Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 07:59:13 -0500
Subject: Re: Notorious Reed UFO Fraud Re-Surfaces - Myers


>From: Josh Goldstein <lovolution.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 04:18:01 -0800
>Subject: Re: Notorious Reed UFO Fraud Re-Surfaces

>>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 16:03:14 -0800
>>Subject: Re: Notorious Reed UFO Fraud Re-Surfaces

>>>From: Royce J. Myers III <ufowatchdog.nul>
>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 10:33:05 -0800
>>>Subject: Notorious Reed UFO Fraud Re-Surfaces

>>>Believe it or not.....

>>>http://www.ufowatchdog.com/reedreturn.html

>>That is amazing. Video tapes, $25 or 180 Pesos in Spanish and
>>English. I suppose it was easier to resurrect the old story into
>>a new market, than to come up with a new tale in the old one.

<snip>

Josh,

Are you talking about... oh... a conspiracy? Mmmmmmm... too
funny Josh, too funny.

"UFO UpDates List Members Conspire To Take Out UFO Morons: The
Truth Behind Their Attempt To Silence, Well, Us! Only $19.95 -
Available in English and Spanish. Lecture tape available
soon!!"

Don't give them any more fodder Josh, I can see them all
drooling now and mentally counting all the money they think they
can make.....

It would be nice if there were a way to organize and get rid of
these clowns. Unfortunately, I've found that this will never
happen and this field will continue to be plagued with nut jobs,
liars, idiots, and skepti-bunkers in turn making the rest of
those serious about the subject look as equally ridiculous.

Guess I'll be having that artichoke soup at Emma's...is it good?

<Royce gives Josh the secret Masonic-Illuminati-Old Navy-19.5-
MJ12-Area51-S4-MenInBlack-covert ops-hand shake>


Regards,

Royce J. Myers III
UFOWATCHDOG.COM

PS: By the way, today, April Fool's Day (I love irony), is the
day that Sean "I'd Sue You But I Can't Prove Anything" Morton
lost his lawsuit against me and my website... Happy April Fool's
Day!











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                    Montreal, Quebec Reports '73 & '85/86

From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO <hbccufo.nul>
Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 11:48:32 -0800
Fwd Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 08:06:56 -0500
Subject: Montreal, Quebec Reports '73 & '85/86



Montreal, Quebec Reports, 1973 & 1985/86

---

First case:

Montreal, 1973. I was with my mother. It was nightime and the
sky was perfectly clear. We were walking on Viau Street, near
the Jean-Talon intersection. Viau Street is north/north-west
bound.

Looking up, we saw a disk from which emanated an intense bright
orange light, comparable to the tip of a lighted cigarette when
someone puffs on it. The size was about the same as the moon et
the edges were clearly defined. It was flying much faster than
the commercial aircrafts that usually fly over this sector. Its
trajectory was pretty much along the Viau Street. It blinked 3
times then it disappeared, perfectly silent.

At the time I thought it was the Kohoutek (sp?) comet but I was
only 11 at the time. Back then the media talked a lot about this
comet passing near Earth. Of course I know now that comets
aren't bright orange, they don't blink and they don't fly
through the entire sky in 3 seconds. And comets have a long
tail.

---

Second case:

1985 or 1986, in the Laurentides Mountains, north of Montreal.
It was night time and I was taking a walk with 3 or 4 friends.
We were spending the week-end at a friend's cottage. As I turned
to the right I saw a bright orange disk between the trees, again
as bright as a lighted cigarette. The edges were not well
defined and it was not emanating light like a star, not points
of light.  Maybe like a crumpled paper ball, round but not
smooth.

It followed the horizon line slowly enough and there was a long
and thick trail behind, also bright orange. I lost it behind the
trees after about 3 seconds. Unfortunately my friends didn't see
it. The most bizarre thing is that we just had a conversation
about UFO's. Strange coincidence.

Thank you.

---

Thank you to the witness for the reports.

Brian Vike,
Director HBCC UFO Research
Home - Phone 250 845 2189
email: hbccufo.nul
Website: http://www.hbccufo.com







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                     Zero-Point Energy Machine On Sale!

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 14:53:16 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 08:08:04 -0500
Subject: Zero-Point Energy Machine On Sale!


>From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 10:48:26 -0600
>Subject: Zero-Point Energy Machine On Sale!

>http://www.thinkgeek.com/stuff/looflirpa/zero.shtml

>I think this should be handy in case of a power outage.

But for all believers out there, please read the "loofilrpa"
part of the URL backward. Otherwise, plug it in! :)


Ray Stanford

"You know my method. It is founded upon the observance of
trifles." -- Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery







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              Re: The Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices -

From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 16:58:18 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 08:09:39 -0500
Subject: Re: The Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices -


>From: Kelly Freeman <Khfflsciufo.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 18:56:32 EST
>Subject: Re: The Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices

>Don,

>Gee whiz, you're no fun at all. Sorry I brought this whole
>thing up. But, unfortunately, we were sidetracked which is
>entirely my fault. My original post suggested "...terrestrial in
>nature". But please, don't throw accusations and insults just
>because I happen to entertain a theory you disagree with. Good
>God! It is just a theory! We could go on and on, but that would
>be a waste_of_time. Hope we can have a more productive
>discussion/debate on something else in the future.

>Have a good day and may peace be with you always.

>...Damn! What happened to those Great Airships anyway?


Hi Kelly,

Actually I can be great fun. But wait until you've been going
over stuff like this for 8 years or so, then you'll see where
I'm coming from.

Airships are something different but you have to start in
1895.....

Best,

Don Ledger








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                            Magonia Finger Points

From: Stuart Miller <stuart.miller4.nul>
Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 22:17:46 +0100 (BST)
Fwd Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 08:15:27 -0500
Subject: Magonia Finger Points


The two Johns,

[John Harney & John Rimmer --ebk]

Gentlemen, I am writing to comment about the leader article in
the current edition of Magonia. I received it today, April 1st.
but I am presuming you are serious. In essence, for those that
have not read it yet or are unable to, the writer suggests that
it won't be long before Society starts taking against abductees
in the same way that ethnic and racial groups of people are
frequently discriminated against by some sections of Society.
Soon you can expect to see "Hybrids Out" signs stuck on front
doors. Principal culprit? Why who else but none other than dear
old Budd.

That in itself is fine in that I feel the point is well
intentioned but wayward. However, when one combines it with the
review of "Sight Unseen" by Peter Rogerson, contained at the
back of the magazine, then the whole thing takes on a different
hue altogether.

Actually, the two items combined are very funny, no doubt
unintentionally so. If there is one thing that you two gentlemen
still don't quite seem to be comfortable with, even after all
this time, it is the wall of aggression that frequently
confronts you. You seem mildly bemused by those who "froth at
the mouth" at your writings.

Well then, you might want to have a word with Rogerson who wrote
the Hopkins review. Because he is so beside himself with hatred
and derision that all objectivity goes out the window.

Be clear - I am not criticising the fact that you have printed a
negative review of a book that I happen to like. I do seriously
welcome the objectivity and enjoy seeing how others who have
read the same book as me see it in a different light.

But you guys are supposed to offer, at the very least, an
intelligent and rational response to the wilder claims of
loonies like myself who see conspiracies everywhere and Grays
lurking behind every natural calamity that besets Earth.

But Rogerson's detestation of Hopkins seems to allow him to make
medical judgements about characters in Hopkins book whom he has
never met. Diagnosis at a distance is a bit much even for
someone like me. To find it in Magonia is both surprising and
disappointing.

A few points:

"Hopkins is capable of inflicting great damage on his abductee
victims". Is he? Where's your proof for such a statement?

"Abductees meet all sorts of odd people" and "Some of these are
clearly people with forms of autism or borderline schizophrenia"
 Same question virtually - where's the proof, how does he know?.

There are further examples of very extreme statements about
Budd. He's a big boy and can look after himself, and I'm sure
others have written worse, but you need to be careful. Your
obsession with him and very obvious deep hatred is beginning to
distort your rational responses. You are in danger of making
fools of yourselves.


Stuart Miller







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                             Time Travel & UFOs

From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 15:03:05 -0600
Fwd Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 08:25:06 -0500
Subject: Time Travel & UFOs


>From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 23:58:11 EST
>Subject: Time Travel & UFOs

>Why is it the more I study the subject of 'time' the more it
>looks like it doesn't exist?

>So is the future the past, the past the future?

No, the future and the past, just like the present, are not much
more than clouds of probabilities. That is, if you did manage to
create a stable bubble of this universe around yourself and
travel "back" into time, it would quickly (relatively) dissolve
into a gray, squishy haze of randomizing and virtualizing
particles.

>I did hear Mr. Friedman say at a lecture, and forgive me if I
>misquote but I recall him saying:
>"The future is not an extrapolation of the past"

That sounds correct. The future is a rough approximation of the
present, then it also quickly evaporates/congeals into a mush of
probabilities. We live in a little "lag zone" between the
present (which we can never actively experience, because by the
time we experience and understand it, it's already become part
of the past) and the past.

It's possible, I suppose, that by traveling into the past or the
future, we might bring our perception to it, and since we become
a quantum observer then, we might bring some kind of stability
to the alternate universe. I wouldn't bet on it, though.








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                          Secrecy News -- 04/01/04

From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood.nul>
Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 17:24:44 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 08:26:52 -0500
Subject: Secrecy News -- 04/01/04


SECRECY NEWS
from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy
Volume 2004, Issue No. 32
April 1, 2004


**      LAWSUIT OVER PRESIDENTIAL RECORDS DISMISSED
**      LAWSUIT ON 1970 COVERT ACTION IN CHILE DISMISSED
**      CHALLENGE TO US V. REYNOLDS PROCEEDS
**      SENATE RATIFIES ADDITIONAL IAEA PROTOCOL
**      HOUSE INTELLIGENCE STAFFER PLAYED SECRET ADVOCACY ROLE


LAWSUIT OVER PRESIDENTIAL RECORDS DISMISSED

A lawsuit that sought to challenge Bush Administration
restrictions on public access to Presidential records from past
Administrations was dismissed by a federal court this week.

In November 2001, President Bush issued an executive order that
significantly increased the authority of current and former
presidents to block public requests for unclassified records
from prior administrations.

In one of its more extravagant formulations, the Bush order
asserted a hereditary right of executive privilege by which the
heirs of a deceased or disabled former president could assert
the privilege on his behalf.

The executive order (EO 13233) was challenged by a broad
coalition of historians and public interest researchers led by
Scott Nelson of the Public Citizen Litigation Group.

But their complaint was not "justiciable," a court ruled,
concluding that the plaintiffs did not have standing and could
not demonstrate imminent injury.

Fundamentally, the ruling suggests that the courts cannot serve
as an effective venue in which to challenge official secrecy
policies, no matter how egregious they may be.

See the March 28 ruling by Judge Colleen Kollar-Kotelly here:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/jud/aha.pdf


LAWSUIT ON 1970 COVERT ACTION IN CHILE DISMISSED

Another lawsuit that was deemed "non-justiciable" this week
concerned the U.S. role in the attempted coup in Chile in 1970
in which Chilean commander-in-chief Gen. Rene Schneider was shot
in an attempted kidnapping.

Schneider's children filed suit against the United States and
against former national security adviser Henry Kissinger in
particular, seeking to hold them responsible for Schneider's
death.

The historical and legal background to the case was discussed in
a 30 page opinion by Judge Rosemary M. Collyer, who granted the
defendant's motion to dismiss the matter. See the March 30
ruling here:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/jud/schneider.pdf


CHALLENGE TO US V. REYNOLDS PROCEEDS

Was United States v. Reynolds, the 1953 Supreme Court decision
that affirmed the government's "state secrets" privilege,
decided in error based on fraudulent testimony from Air Force
officials?

Litigation over that question continues in federal district
court in Pennsylvania.

In the latest installment in the case, the government argued
March 19 on technical grounds that no fraud had been committed
and that the complaint should be dismissed:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/jud/herring_us_031904.pdf

The plaintiffs, who include family members of the original 1953
plaintiff in the case, asked the court on March 25 to allow
oral argument:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/jud/herring032504.pdf


SENATE RATIFIES ADDITIONAL IAEA PROTOCOL

The Senate ratified a measure that would strengthen the
International Atomic Energy Agency's authority to inspect
suspected nuclear weapons sites.

The so-called Additional Protocol "allows the IAEA to inspect
non-declared facilities, if the organization believes that
illegal nuclear activities may be taking place there," said
Senator Joe Biden. The United States retains special rights
to a "national security exclusion" that can be used to block
IAEA inspection of U.S. facilities, he noted.

See the March 31 Senate floor debate on the IAEA Additional
Protocol here:

http://www.fas.org/nuke/control/usiaea/docs/usiaea4.htm


HOUSE INTELLIGENCE STAFFER PLAYED SECRET ADVOCACY ROLE

A staff member of the House Permanent Select Committee on
Intelligence last year drafted legislation that apparently would
have channeled hundreds of thousands of dollars to an advocacy
group that he was working to establish, according to a jaw-
dropping story in the Capitol Hill newspaper Roll Call.

That particular provision was blocked by the Senate in
conference. But the House committee staffer, John Stopher, went
on to help create and raise funds for the United States
Geospatial Intelligence Foundation, an advocacy organization
that sought $60,000 membership fees from industry sponsors.

The story, reported by Damon Chappie, represents an unusually
crass instance of bias and conflict of interest among
intelligence committee staff members.

A more commonplace concern has to do with the fact that a
significant fraction of committee staffers are former employees
of the intelligence agencies they oversee or perhaps, like the
current Director of Central Intelligence, they hope to be future
employees.

Either way, their capacity for independent criticism or, when
necessary, confrontation is likely to be diminished.

Details of the Stopher affair are recounted in "Intel Aide's
Ties Draw Scrutiny" by Damon Chappie, Roll Call, April 1, posted
with permission here:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/2004/04/rc040104.html


_______________________________________________
Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the
Federation of American Scientists.

To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to
secrecy_news-request.nul
with "subscribe" in the body of the message.

To UNSUBSCRIBE, send a blank email message to
secrecy_news-remove.nul

OR email your request to saftergood.nul

Secrecy News is archived at:
http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html

_______________________
Steven Aftergood
Project on Government Secrecy
Federation of American Scientists
web:  www.fas.org/sgp/index.html
email: saftergood.nul
voice: (202) 454-4691








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               Re: Caution Pravda 'Story'! UFO Fragments Yield

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 18:00:18 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 08:28:28 -0500
Subject: Re: Caution Pravda 'Story'! UFO Fragments Yield


>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 08:08:13 -0800
>Subject: Caution Pravda Story! UFO Fragments Yield Sensational Results

>Source: Pravda

>http://english.pravda.ru/science/19/94/378/12390_UFO.html

>03/31/2004

>UFO fragments yield sensational results

>An unidentified flying object has crashed in the Far East.
>Hundreds of people witnessed the event. The UFO crashed into the
>rocky mountains located in the town of Dalnegorsk.

>A strange spherical object has slightly brushed upon the mount
>at approximately 8:00pm, January 29th, 1986. Witnesses claim
>they saw a bright flash but did not hear anything. The glow from
>the fire appeared rather strange: blue aureole lasted for about
>an hour and a half.

This story has at least some basis in truth. I recall reading
about it in translated Russian papers shortly after it happened
(back in the days of glassnost and perestroika). Anyway, it
would appear that some strange material was found after
witnesses saw a ball of light (I don';t recall exactly) crash
into "hill 611" (named after its height... in meters)








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             Re: Why I Support Alien Abduction Study - Maccabee

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 18:00:26 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 08:30:56 -0500
Subject: Re: Why I Support Alien Abduction Study - Maccabee


>From: Nick Pope <nick.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 23:39:09 +0100
>Subject: Why I Support Alien Abduction Study

>Over recent months I've posted a few times on the subject of the
>study into the alien abduction phenomenon being carried out by
>psychologists at Goldsmiths College, University of London.

>Given the fact that Professor Chris French (a confessed sceptic
>on the ETH) is undertaking this study, some people have
>expressed surprise that I've commended this project and actively
>encouraged abductees and experiencers to take part. I wanted to
>explain my thinking on this. There are three main reasons why I
>support this initiative.

>Firstly, whatever Chris French's personal views, he and his team
>are being scrupulous so far as methodology and protocols are
>concerned. He's consulted with parapsychologists, ufologists and
>experiencers. Witness confidentiality is paramount, and
>participants can use pseudonyms if they wish.

>Secondly, ufologists often complain that scientists don't take
>an interest in UFOs or alien abductions. I believe it would send
>the wrong message if ufologists complain about one of the rare
>occasions when the scientific community is taking an interest.
>This is, after all, proper science. Data collected from
>abductees will be compared with data from a control sample
>matched on such factors as gender and age. The intention is to
>publish the results in scientific journals.

My main 'worry' about such a study is that, being psychologists,
they will confine their study to the verbal testimony and ignore
physical effects/evidence.

(Consider, that John Mack has argued something like this: we
will never have convincing physical evidence.

The corollary to this is, why look?

I wouldn't believe in the abduction stuff either... without the
evidence provided by many pain vanilla sightings and also the
UFO sighting reports that are made by the abductees.

For example, would he take a Walton type case, analyze Walton
and ignore everything else?








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                       Re: Filers Files #15 - Balaskas

From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul>
Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 19:54:53 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
Fwd Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 08:42:33 -0500
Subject: Re: Filers Files #15 - Balaskas


>From: George A. Filer <Majorstar.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 14:52:06 -0500
>Subject: Filers Files #15

<snip>

>Methane Gas on Mars Indicates Life.

>Two different teams, one using Mars Express, the second using
>the Canada-France-Hawaii telescope, have discovered about the
>same proportion of methane in the Martian atmosphere (roughly
>1/100,000,000).  This is about 100 times less than on Earth.
>According to the second team, "methanogenesis by living
>subterranean organisms is the most likely explanation" (living
>now, not fossils). Source:
>http://mainlymartian.blogs.com/2004/03/methane_and_thu.html
>Jean-Pierre Pharabod

<snip>


Hi George! Hi Everyone!

York University space scientist John Caldwell and his graduate
student Tatiana Ouvarova have made a proposal to use the Hubble
Space Telescope (HST) to search for sulphur dioxide (SO2) on
Mars (You may recall that Prof. Caldwell was the only researcher
to use the HST to study the chemical composition of the Moon -
 something people considered impossible because the Moon was too
close and much too bright). If they do detect SO2 in the Martian
atmosphere, this would be proof of recent volcanic activity on
Mars and thus the most probable explanation for the source of
methane gas detected by CFH and ESA. Until this search for SO2
is made, no one will be able to say with certainy that the
methane discovered on Mars has a biological origin.

So, unless the the gyros on the soon to be retired HST suddenly
fail or it experiences other major technical problems and NASA
informs them that their search for SO2 cannot be done, we will
not have too long to wait before we can say with confidence
whether life has been discovered on Mars or not.

If life is detected on Mars, it will almostly certainly have
originated from Earth. Although subject to much debate among
scientists, there is geological evidence that microbial life has
existed on our planet for over one billion years. During this
period of time, the Earth has experienced many major impacts by
large asteroids and comets which sent rocks harbouring many of
these Earth organisms on voyages in all directions of space at
escape velocities (over 7 miles per second). Not only would many
of these rocks with living organisms from Earth have reached all
planets in our solar system but they could very well have seeded
millions of other worlds orbiting distant stars too. As our
galaxy rotated over the past one billion years, these organisms
from Earth would have reached a wide region of containing many
millions of stars in much the same way a diamond stylus or
needle eventually passes over the entire grooved surface of a
spinning vinyl record.

Since we know for sure that there is at least one planet with
life (Earth), there have been many violent meteor/comet impacts
with the Earth in the past and recently published papers have
shown that organisms in rocks can indeed survive high levels of
radiation and the extremes temperatures of space, a simple and
logical conclusion is that all ETs in our galaxy, if they do
exist, originated on Earth!


Nick Balaskas








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   Apr > Apr 2

                           Re: Time Travel & UFOs

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 23:54:37 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 08:47:40 -0500
Subject: Re: Time Travel & UFOs


>From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 23:58:11 EST
>Subject: Time Travel & UFOs

>Why is it the more I study the subject of 'time' the more it
>looks like it doesn't exist?

>So is the future the past, the past the future?

>Like the character of Capt. Janeway on 'Star Trek: Voyager' it
>all gives me a headache.

Without memory there is either (a) no time or (b) no way of
knowing whether there is time or not.

Answer (a) is analagous to "if a tree falls in the woods and no
one is around to hear it... does it make a noise?

In this case, (a) means, if there is no memory, does time pass
anyway?

By the way, what does it mean, "time pass" ???

If answer (b) time could "pass" or not.... without memory no one
would know.

By the way, what does it mean to "know?"

And, while you're at it, what is memory? I know you just used it
(memory).

If your head isn't aching enough already, read THE SEARCH FOR
THE INTELLECTON at my web site:

http://brumac.8k.com/AbductionInLife/INTELLECTON.html.

Then,if you can still remember what the question was, answer it.
(The question is, what is the question?)








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                          PRG Media Notice 04-02-04

From: Stephen Basset <ParadigmRG.nul>
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 03:30:50 EST
Fwd Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 08:50:15 -0500
Subject: PRG Media Notice 04-02-04


PRG
Paradigm Research Group


PRG Executive Director, Stephen Bassett, will guest on the first
hour of Coast to Coast AM with George Noory Friday, April 2, 10
pm PST. He will talk about the Sci Fi Channel, CFI, John
Podesta, George Soros, Disclosure and the X-Conference.

In the Washington, DC metro area Coast to Coast AM is aired on
WMAL AM 630.

Link: www.coasttocoastam.com

________________________________________________________

Paradigm Research Group
E-mail: ParadigmRG.nul
URL: www.paradigmclock.com
Cell: 202-431-2459
4938 Hampden Lane, #161
Bethesda, MD 20814
_________________________________________________________

1st Annual Exopolitics Expo - The X-Conference
Hilton Washington DC North/Gaithersburg - April 16-18, 2004
www.x-conference.com








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                              Star-Trek & UFOs?

From: Aaron LeClair <force.nul>
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 04:07:46 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 08:54:07 -0500
Subject: Star-Trek & UFOs?


I'm not a big Star Trek fan, and a child of the 70s, so bear
with me for asking some trivial questions. I have done a search
via the UpDates Archive, and on the Net, and haven't found the
answers I seek yet. I am hoping some of you can help me, as well
as give your feedback as to what I am dealing with.

I would like to know what year Star-Trek aired. I know it was
the 60s, can't find the exact month and year. I am asking this,
because I am trying to find out which came first, alien
abduction stories where people are getting beamed up, or Star-
Trek beaming people up on the show. I heard that Gene R. the
creator of star trek, took ideas from ufology, however, I can
never trace anything to him. It's always second hand etc.

The Hill's abduction case in the 60s had no beams involved. This
is considered the first publicly knowned abduction. I know there
have been contactee cases before, but none to my recollection
involve beams. Plus the contactee cases that I am refering to,
before the 60s are bunk. If you know of any that aren't, please
let me know.

My dillema is this, every potientially credible abduction claim
I know about, that pre-dates the 60s, and therefore pre-dates
Star-Trek is recalled/reported after the 60s.

For example Budd Hopkins might have dealt with an abductee in
the 80s, of a 60 year old, that recalls being abducted as a
child - way before Star-Trek - through regression that took
place in the 80s. I would like to know of any abduction reports
on record before the 60s. This would rule out Star Trek having
an influence on the abduction case.

There are some who think that the bible reports abduction, but
this is open to interpretation. I am looking for some abduction
reports that involve beams, say from late 1800s, to late 1950s.

Thanks for any info. and insight you might share.








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   Apr > Apr 2

                       Need Address For UK's Tony Dodd

From: Murray Bott <murrayb.nul>
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 22:58:33 +1200 (NZST)
Fwd Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 08:56:35 -0500
Subject: Need Address For UK's Tony Dodd


Greetings List

I have a request from someone locally here, in Auckland, seeking
contact details for Tony Dodd in England.

Details reqeusted are an Email and/or regular snail-mail
address.

Would anyone who has these contact me with these details?


Regards

Murray Bott
--
Email : murrayb.nul
Voice : 64-9-6345285
Snail : PO Box 27117, Mt Roskill, Auckland 1030, New Zealand








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              Re: Radio Search For ET Draws A Blank - Dickenson

From: Ray Dickenson <editor.nul>
Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 14:16:03 +0100
Fwd Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 08:59:05 -0500
Subject: Re: Radio Search For ET Draws A Blank - Dickenson


>From: Nick Pope <nick.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 19:05:08 +0100
>Subject: Re: Radio Search For ET Draws A Blank

>>From: Ray Dickenson <editor.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 17:30:47 +0100
>>Subject: Radio Search For ET Draws A Blank

>>"A civilization very much more advanced than we will be engaged
>>in a busy communications traffic with its peers; but not with
>>us, and not via technologies accessible to us." - from
>>"Communication with Extraterrestrial Intelligence" - by Carl
>>Sagan (ed.) 1973 p. 366

>>and

>>"Communication is a universal, but the use of radio is a
>>parochial, when we go out into the Galaxy... a radio signal will
>>be about as useful as a smoke signal. Communication evolves" -
>>from "Evolving the Alien" - by Profs. Jack Cohen & Ian Stewart,
>>2002. ISBN 0-09-187927-2

<snip>

>Notwithstanding the above, my personal view is that SETI is
>worth trying. I look forward to debating this with Stan in the
>margins of the X-Conference.


Hello Nick,

Your hopefulness is understandable but is it commendable?

A simple statistical look at just our galaxy's 'material life'
probabilities:

http://www.perceptions.couk.com/uef/setigift2.html#INTELLIGENCE

says:

1) some galactic life hasn't reached intelligence;

2) some galactic life is 'primitive' - say from homo habilis
level to just past (our) level of mechanical/radio technology;

3) some galactic life is 'advanced' - possibly by millions of
years - long using _only_ energy-field technologies.

Question 1 - do we want to hear, even from the past, radio
messages sent by beings at our WorldWarI level - i.e. greedy,
murderous, racist primitives? (Winston Churchill advocated mass
poison-gassing for 'natives') see:

http://www.perceptions.couk.com/truechurch.txt

Question 2 - do we want any such nearby beings to hear us?

Question 3 - if we don't (and I don't), shouldn't we be trying
to listen-in on 'advanced' communications? (Listening more
advisable than shouting?).

We're approaching a cusp of being able to leave mechanical/radio
technology, to begin using energy-field technology - see:

http://www.perceptions.couk.com/uef/wb2.html#factor

Therefore failure to consider those three questions will leave us
whistling in the dark - chancy tactic in a jungle.

And then there's the (increasing) likelihood of even older 'non-
material' beings with even weirder, more dangerous abilities -
see:

http://www.perceptions.couk.com/uef/friend-foe.txt


Cheers

Ray

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Perceptions" http://www.perceptions.couk.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~









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                                   Galileo

From: Maurice Woolf <MauriceW.nul>
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 15:45:23 +0200
Fwd Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 09:04:53 -0500
Subject: Galileo


Hallo to you all,

Galileo maintained the earth was not the center of all existence
and was burnt at the stake for believing same. I have been
following the List and I think UFOs can be debunked if anyone
tried hard enough.

I think our scientific method is too immature to aptly capture
or describe this phenomena. It's the same as life and death - it
exists but science cannot explain it. The spirit and the ethereal
body of man are still more elusive.

I am not crazy - I know I don't hallucinate or feel things that
are not real. I saw it and that's it. Burn me at the stake if
you want to, but I'll bet my life's savings that UFOs do exist.
Just give it some time, consciousness changes don't occur
overnight.


Maurice Woolf








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                       Re: Star Trek & UFOs - Cammack

From: Diana Cammack <cammack.nul>
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 16:08:01 +0200
Fwd Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 10:33:19 -0500
Subject: Re: Star Trek & UFOs - Cammack


>From: Aaron LeClair <force.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 04:07:46 -0500
>Subject: Star-Trek & UFOs?

<snip>

>I would like to know what year Star-Trek aired. I know it was
>the 60s, can't find the exact month and year. I am asking this,
>because I am trying to find out which came first, alien
>abduction stories where people are getting beamed up, or Star-
>Trek beaming people up on the show. I heard that Gene R. the
>creator of star trek, took ideas from ufology, however, I can
>never trace anything to him. It's always second hand etc.

<snip>

>I would like to know of any abduction reports on record before
>the 60s. This would rule out Star Trek having an influence on
>the abduction case.

Not to keep beating the same drum, but again i urge researchers
to look beyond the USA and other TV-cultures, for it is only
there that Star Trek has tainted evidence.

While we see Star Trek now in South Africa, there are
undoubtedly places in Africa (and S. America and Asia) where
populations have not seen the show, or any other science ficton
programme, or heard of 'transport beams' and aliens.

I urge you to ty to collect current/new cases of abductions from
these areas where people remain untainted by TV and film, so we
won't have to rely on old cases to test the hypothesis.


Diana In Cape Town










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               Re: Notorious Reed UFO Fraud Re-Surfaces - Hall

From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 14:23:19 +0000
Fwd Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 10:36:34 -0500
Subject: Re: Notorious Reed UFO Fraud Re-Surfaces - Hall


>From: Royce J. Myers III <ufowatchdog.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 11:12:18 -0800
>Subject: Re: Notorious Reed UFO Fraud Re-Surfaces

>>From: Josh Goldstein <lovolution.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 04:18:01 -0800
>>Subject: Re: Notorious Reed UFO Fraud Re-Surfaces

>>>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 16:03:14 -0800
>>>Subject: Re: Notorious Reed UFO Fraud Re-Surfaces

>>>>From: Royce J. Myers III <ufowatchdog.nul>
>>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>>Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 10:33:05 -0800
>>>>Subject: Notorious Reed UFO Fraud Re-Surfaces

>>>>Believe it or not.....

>>>>http://www.ufowatchdog.com/reedreturn.html

>>>That is amazing. Video tapes, $25 or 180 Pesos in Spanish and
>>>English. I suppose it was easier to resurrect the old story into
>>>a new market, than to come up with a new tale in the old one.

><snip>

>Josh,

>Are you talking about... oh... a conspiracy? Mmmmmmm... too
>funny Josh, too funny.

>"UFO UpDates List Members Conspire To Take Out UFO Morons: The
>Truth Behind Their Attempt To Silence, Well, Us! Only $19.95 -
>Available in English and Spanish. Lecture tape available
>soon!!"

>Don't give them any more fodder Josh, I can see them all
>drooling now and mentally counting all the money they think they
>can make.....

>It would be nice if there were a way to organize and get rid of
>these clowns. Unfortunately, I've found that this will never
>happen and this field will continue to be plagued with nut jobs,
>liars, idiots, and skepti-bunkers in turn making the rest of
>those serious about the subject look as equally ridiculous.

Amen! This has been my message for many years, and it falls on
deaf ears. Even people who should know better can't seem to
comprehend how much harm these people do to the efforts of truly
scientific and sensible people trying to get UFOs the attention
they deserve. So they "give aid and comfort to the enemy" by
cheerfully co-existing with them and, instead, shoot the
messenger. Ask me; I'm riddled with bullet holes.

What can be done, as your fine example illustrates, is to expose
them for what they are and disassociate yourself from them.
Although you can't get rid of them, you can make it clear to the
world at large that you disown them and have little or nothing
in common with them. That there is a serious case for UFOs which
they are beclouding.


 - Dick










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                             Re: Galileo - Shell

From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 08:20:41 -0600
Fwd Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 10:39:01 -0500
Subject: Re: Galileo - Shell


>From: Maurice Woolf <MauriceW.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 15:45:23 +0200
>Subject: Galileo

>I am not crazy - I know I don't hallucinate or feel things that
>are not real. I saw it and that's it. Burn me at the stake if
>you want to, but I'll bet my life's savings that UFOs do exist.

I personally have never seen anything I would consider to be a
flying or landed object that is beyond a doubt not something
from this planet or time. If you've had such an experience, you
should consider yourself fortunate. Such occurances are rare.
And, as in most cases, it's also a bit unfortunate, because it's
just another no-evidence anecdote to add to the pile. Galileo at
least had a telescope he could tell people to look through to
see the things he saw. Hopefully he had faith that others in the
future would help prove him right.

I guess until I personally have an experience like yours, where
I'm absolutely sure, no question, that I've seen something
beyond extraordinary, I have to live with the fact that I just
don't know what's going on, if anything.








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                Re: Radio Search For ET Draws A Blank - Shell

From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 08:38:30 -0600
Fwd Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 10:44:25 -0500
Subject: Re: Radio Search For ET Draws A Blank - Shell


>From: Ray Dickenson <editor.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 14:16:03 +0100
>Subject: Re: Radio Search For ET Draws A Blank

>>From: Nick Pope <nick.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 19:05:08 +0100
>>Subject: Re: Radio Search For ET Draws A Blank

>>>From: Ray Dickenson <editor.nul>
>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 17:30:47 +0100
>>>Subject: Radio Search For ET Draws A Blank

>>>"A civilization very much more advanced than we will be engaged
>>>in a busy communications traffic with its peers; but not with
>>>us, and not via technologies accessible to us." - from
>>>"Communication with Extraterrestrial Intelligence" - by Carl
>>>Sagan (ed.) 1973 p. 366

>>>and

>>>"Communication is a universal, but the use of radio is a
>>>parochial, when we go out into the Galaxy... a radio signal will
>>>be about as useful as a smoke signal. Communication evolves" -
>>>from "Evolving the Alien" - by Profs. Jack Cohen & Ian Stewart,
>>>2002. ISBN 0-09-187927-2

><snip>

>>Notwithstanding the above, my personal view is that SETI is
>>worth trying. I look forward to debating this with Stan in the
>>margins of the X-Conference.

>Question 1 - do we want to hear, even from the past, radio
>messages sent by beings at our WorldWarI level - i.e. greedy,
>murderous, racist primitives?

I would like to hear, if only to get a look at some possible
alternate scenarios for potential development. Although because
history is such an odd string of chance occurances, I don't
think we'd ever find another civilization that would give us an
accurate "case on point."

>Question 2 - do we want any such nearby beings to hear us?

Fortunately, we don't have to worry too much about that, unless
they've come up with some Stargate technology or something.

>Question 3 - if we don't (and I don't), shouldn't we be trying
>to listen-in on 'advanced' communications? (Listening more
>advisable than shouting?).

Absolutely. Listen quietly is definitely the way to go. I
personally think that an insect-like being (if any) is a likely
type of intelligent creature to make its way through space. Just
because there are so many successful insect types on Earth. Now,
I don't know if ants or bees or termites have "souls" or the
equivalent form of self-awareness. I'm guessing not. So we might
expect such a creature to track us down from our radio signals
and simply, dispassionately overrun us.

The second type of being, perhaps even more prevalent, would be
the mindless reproducing "Von Neumann" machine. They'd only have
to be programmed to look for intelligent life by their radio
broadcasts, then find those civilizations, examine them for any
useful technological advancements, then tear them apart, rebuild
as many other self-replicating machines as possible
incorporating the advancement, and go on their merry way.
Forever and ever, amen. Also not a very pleasant end for
humanity. (Is DNA a Von Neumann machine?)

Now, maybe it won't make any difference. I figure that with
artificial intelligence developing so fast here on Earth,
humanity as we know it only has maybe 2500 or 3000 years left on
this planet, anyway. By the time the bugs or the Borgs get here,
our decendants, intelligent machines, might be up for the fight.
Or to join up.







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                      Re: Star-Trek & UFOs? - Ticchetti

From: Thiago Luiz Ticchetti <thiagolt.nul>
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 12:17:35 -0300
Fwd Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 10:53:52 -0500
Subject: Re: Star-Trek & UFOs? - Ticchetti


>From: Aaron LeClair <force.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 04:07:46 -0500
>Subject: Star-Trek & UFOs?

<snip>

>I would like to know what year Star-Trek aired. I know it was
>the 60s, can't find the exact month and year. I am asking this,
>because I am trying to find out which came first, alien
>abduction stories where people are getting beamed up, or Star-
>Trek beaming people up on the show. I heard that Gene R. the
>creator of star trek, took ideas from ufology, however, I can
>never trace anything to him. It's always second hand etc.

<snip>

>I would like to know of any abduction reports on record before
>the 60s. This would rule out Star Trek having an influence on
>the abduction case.

Hello Aaron,

Well, here in Brazil there are two cases where the abductee was
hit by a beam of light that I know.

One occured in 1952 in the city of Carna=FAba, Piaui State. The
person, Mr. Arlindo Gomes, was hit by a beam of light and got
paralized. He was abducted and then recalled some parts of the
event. This case wasn't researched very much because he was
killed by a car months later.

The other was in april 23, 1953, in the city of Mau=E1, S=E3o Paulo
state. Mr. Willian Borges Silva, was in his car when a ball of
light hit him in the chest. Then a great rounded UFO appeared
and took him inside it. There he was examined by some type of
"hairy creatures".

I am not sure about these cases, but I hope that help you.

Regards

--
Thiago Luiz Ticchetti
vice-presidente EBE-ET/Brasilia/DF
International Coordinator UFO Magazine Brazil







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                          Star-Trek & UFOs? - Oberg

From: James Oberg <joberg.nul>
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 09:59:32 -0600
Fwd Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 12:18:19 -0500
Subject: Star-Trek & UFOs? - Oberg


>From: Aaron LeClair <force.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 04:07:46 -0500
>Subject: Star-Trek & UFOs?

>I would like to know what year Star-Trek aired. I know it was
>the 60s, can't find the exact month and year. I am asking this,
>because I am trying to find out which came first, alien
>abduction stories where people are getting beamed up, or Star-
>Trek beaming people up on the show. I heard that Gene R. the
>creator of star trek, took ideas from ufology, however, I can
>never trace anything to him. It's always second hand etc.


'Star Trek' first appeared on TV in the fall of 1966, but exact
dates of exact episodes should be available in published
'concordances' in any good bookstories 'SF' section.

The issue of an impact of popular culture on UFO-related
memories is a good research theme but very difficult to prove.
It's been claimed that the 'Outer Limits' episode, the 'Bellero
Shield', which aired the Friday before the Hills' first
regression session with Dr. Simon, has an alien whose wraparound
eyes (unusual for abductee reports to that time) may have
influenced Betty's description. There is no evidence she saw the
show =96 nor can we expect to ever find any =96 but even a glance at
a TV promo may have had an effect.

As for other abductee descriptions, the first UFO abduction on
television that I recall is a 1961 episode of the Twilight Zone
with Andy Devine as the hapless victim. The aliens were short,
hairless, had holes for ears, no noses, and large slanting
almond-shaped eyes. Such a description was rare prior to the
broadcast, but became more typical in later years =96 although
cause-and-effect is probably utterly unprovable.


James Oberg








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   Apr > Apr 2

                             Re: Galileo - Wise

From: William Wise <w.wise.nul>
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 10:32:53 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 12:19:47 -0500
Subject: Re: Galileo - Wise


>From: Maurice Woolf <MauriceW.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 15:45:23 +0200
>Subject: Galileo

>Galileo maintained the earth was not the center of all existence
>and was burnt at the stake for believing same. I have been
>following the List and I think UFOs can be debunked if anyone
>tried hard enough.


Galileo died of natural causes.

Will








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                       Re: Star-Trek & UFOs? - Bueche

From: Will Bueche <willbueche.nul>
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 07:51:08 -0800 (PST)
Fwd Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 12:20:51 -0500
Subject: Re: Star-Trek & UFOs? - Bueche


As a fan of Star Trek the Next Generation (from the 1980s) with
only some awareness of the 1960s show that came first, I think I
can still point out that the "transporter" on Star Trek is
different than what most people report in alien encounter cases.

On Star Trek, their transporter "dematerializes" a person amid a
swirl of sparkles and then they are "rematerialized" elsewhere
amid similar sparkles.

In most alien encounters that I've heard about, people describe
being pulled up into a beam of light (something which is not
shown on Star Trek), moving bodily through the air for several
meters (again, not what is done on Star Trek) and deposited into
what seems to be a alien ship.

The only similarity I see to the famous transporter of Star Trek
is that people say they pass through walls as they're being
carried by this beam of light; similarly, on Trek, you can be
transported through pretty much anything.

That said, I have read one report of a person who described
feeling they were dissolved and then rematerialized, so maybe
you're referring to this. But generally speaking, the comparison
of Star Trek's "beaming" and alien encounters, if a comparison
is to be made, must be based on the concept that the general
public must have heard vague stories about Star Trek and
misinterpreted what is shown on the show, rather than being
based on having actually seen the show.

Frankly what is described in alien encounters sounds more
reminiscent of the science fiction concept of a "tractor beam,"
which is just a fancy term for some kind of magnetic pull that
doesn't depend on metals but rather on energy - another avenue
for you to research I'd say. "Tractor beams" have been in both
Star Trek and Star Wars, and everything in between.








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                            Re: Galileo - Shough

From: Martin Shough <mshough.nul>
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 17:31:22 +0100
Fwd Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 12:32:03 -0500
Subject: Re: Galileo - Shough


>From: Maurice Woolf <MauriceW.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 15:45:23 +0200
>Subject: Galileo

>Hallo to you all,

>Galileo maintained the earth was not the center of all existence
>and was burnt at the stake for believing same. I have been
>following the List and I think UFOs can be debunked if anyone
>tried hard enough.

In the interests of historical accuracy, Galileo was not burned
at the stake.


MS








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                        Re: Star-Trek & UFOs? - Groff

From: Terry Groff <terry.nul>
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 11:02:49 -0600
Fwd Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 12:33:11 -0500
Subject: Re: Star-Trek & UFOs? - Groff


>From: Aaron LeClair <force.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 04:07:46 -0500
>Subject: Star-Trek & UFOs?

>I'm not a big Star Trek fan, and a child of the 70s, so bear
>with me for asking some trivial questions. I have done a search
>via the UpDates Archive, and on the Net, and haven't found the
>answers I seek yet. I am hoping some of you can help me, as well
>as give your feedback as to what I am dealing with.

>I would like to know what year Star-Trek aired. I know it was
>the 60s, can't find the exact month and year.

I can't pinpoint the month but I believe it was the summer of
1965. The first episode was 'Where No Man Has Gone Before'.


Terry








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                        Re: Star Trek & UFOs - Shell

From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 11:05:52 -0600
Fwd Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 12:36:07 -0500
Subject: Re: Star Trek & UFOs - Shell


>From: Diana Cammack <cammack.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 16:08:01 +0200
>Subject: Re: Star Trek & UFOs

>>From: Aaron LeClair <force.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 04:07:46 -0500
>>Subject: Star-Trek & UFOs?

>>I would like to know of any abduction reports on record before
>>the 60s. This would rule out Star Trek having an influence on
>>the abduction case.

Don't worry about it. There's no way to logically prove that any
television program or movie "contaminated" any sighting or
abduction report. Explain the mechanism to me.

I go into a theater, see E.T. and on the drive home, I see a
flying saucer. How exactly did my watching E.T. cause me to see
the saucer? If I go to a cowboy movie, and I see a cowboy while
I'm driving home, does that mean the movie made me see the
cowboy? I went to see Planet of the Apes and didn't see a single
monkey on my way home. It doesn't make any sense! But when I see
an alien movie, suddenly my mind is all confused and I start
seeing all kinds of nutty things that aren't there. Completely
ridiculous.

>Not to keep beating the same drum, but again i urge researchers
>to look beyond the USA and other TV-cultures, for it is only
>there that Star Trek has tainted evidence.

I fail to see where or how any evidence has been "tainted". This
bad skeptical argument has been bandied about by folks like
Martin Kottmeyer for such a long time, people are starting to
see it as valid, when it isn't! If somebody tells you, "Oh, this
sighting was obviously influenced by an episode of The Outer
Limits", you get them to explain exactly how that happens.

"Well... uh... duh....." Exactly.








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   Apr > Apr 2

                         Re: Polar Orbiters? - Oberg

From: James Oberg <joberg.nul>
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 09:49:41 -0600
Fwd Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 12:51:00 -0500
Subject: Re: Polar Orbiters? - Oberg


>From: Ray Dickenson <editor.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 12:26:12 +0100
>Subject: Re: Polar Orbiters?

>>From: Eleanor White <eleanor.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 16:29:20 -0500
>>Subject: Polar Orbiters?

>>Has anyone investigated references to at least one polar
>>orbiting satellite discovered during the Sputnik era,
>>and presumed therefore not of Earthly origin?

>Eleanor, thanks for the incentive,

>Some folk might have already found this quote from:

>http://www.violations.dabsol.co.uk/probe/probepart2.htm

>"Dr. Luis Corralos, a Venezuelan astronomer working for his
>National Communications Ministry, discovered an unclear image of
>an unknown object apparently trailing Sputnik II, the Soviet
>satellite launched on 4th November 1957. Investigations were
>instigated but no public explanation has ever been given... on
>4th January 1960, not one but two objects of sizeable
>proportions were detected in polar orbit. These objects were
>estimated to weigh 15 tons each (compared to the largest US
>satellite of that time which weighed only 500lbs or the Soviet=92s
>3000lb.)... US National Space Surveillance Control Centre
>(NSSCC) formally admitted that an unidentified =91satellite=92 was
>in polar orbit, although with a rider that a natural explanation
>would probably be forthcoming at a later date. It wasn=92t, or at
>least none was made available."

<snip>

>Trying for hard details of polar orbit sats. is otherwise a no-go
>area, probably 'cos many of them (post 'mid-60's) were spy sats.
>and presumably still verboten to discuss (see "Perceptions" index
>for CIA).


Amateur skywatchers have been tracking polar orbiting vehicles
for decades, see their activities described at:

http://www.satellite.eu.org/satintro.html

The problem with the 'violations' site you mention is it's
hopelessly crammed with ancient bunk and modern mistakes. The
most relevant misinformation re the 'polar orbit sightings' in
1960 is the claim that military launchings into such orbit
didn't begin until later. Some UFO writer just made that up =96
possibly confident that nobody in his target audience would have
the competence or concern to check on the claim =96 but
(surprise!) it's not true: Discoverer launchings into polar
orbit began in 1959 (there were eight that year). Many ejected
recoverable capsules, but most of these went off course and
entered new orbital trajectories.

This sort of factual atrocity is no stranger to the 'violations'
sight, as even a cursory overview can show. In its section on
'astronaut UFO sightings', it has a picture of an instrument
boom extending from an Apollo spacecraft and calls it a
'cylinder-shaped UFO'. It also has another picture attributed to
Apollo-12 of a classic decorated discoid object that 'NASA won't
comment on' =96 false, of course, as NASA tells anybody who asks
that the image is of the sunlit end of a jettisoned S-IV-b
rocket stage, suitably airbrushed by a British UFO magazine to
remove the edges.

So I suggest you need to dig more deeply into this interesting
historical claim.


James Oberg








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   Apr > Apr 3

                       Re: Star-Trek & UFOs? - Ledger

From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 14:02:14 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 05:28:42 -0500
Subject: Re: Star-Trek & UFOs? - Ledger


>From: James Oberg <joberg.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 09:59:32 -0600
>Subject: Re: Star-Trek & UFOs?

>>From: Aaron LeClair <force.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 04:07:46 -0500
>>Subject: Star-Trek & UFOs?

>>I would like to know what year Star-Trek aired. I know it was
>>the 60s, can't find the exact month and year. I am asking this,
>>because I am trying to find out which came first, alien
>>abduction stories where people are getting beamed up, or Star-
>>Trek beaming people up on the show. I heard that Gene R. the
>>creator of star trek, took ideas from ufology, however, I can
>>never trace anything to him. It's always second hand etc.

> 'Star Trek' first appeared on TV in the fall of 1966, but
>exact dates of exact episodes should be available in published
>'concordances' in any good bookstories 'SF' section.

>The issue of an impact of popular culture on UFO-related
>memories is a good research theme but very difficult to prove.
>It's been claimed that the 'Outer Limits' episode, the 'Bellero
>Shield', which aired the Friday before the Hills' first
>regression session with Dr. Simon, has an alien whose wraparound
>eyes (unusual for abductee reports to that time) may have
>influenced Betty's description. There is no evidence she saw the
>show -- nor can we expect to ever find any -- but even a glance at
>a TV promo may have had an effect.

>As for other abductee descriptions, the first UFO abduction on
>television that I recall is a 1961 episode of the Twilight Zone
>with Andy Devine as the hapless victim. The aliens were short,
>hairless, had holes for ears, no noses, and large slanting
>almond-shaped eyes. Such a description was rare prior to the
>broadcast, but became more typical in later years -- although
>cause-and-effect is probably utterly unprovable.


Hi Jim,

The problem being of course, from where did the script writer of
the Twilight Zone piece come up with the idea? Was it, pure
imagination, some vague disturbing memory perhaps or his/her own
full blown episode? But as you say, cause and effect. How do we
prove it? I suppose that some enterprising soul could track down
the writer and ask.

Don Ledger









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   Apr > Apr 3

                        Re: Polar Orbiters? - Ledger

From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 14:11:25 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 05:31:39 -0500
Subject: Re: Polar Orbiters? - Ledger


>From: James Oberg <joberg.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 09:49:41 -0600
>Subject: Re: Polar Orbiters?

>>From: Ray Dickenson <editor.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 12:26:12 +0100
>>Subject: Re: Polar Orbiters?

>>>From: Eleanor White <eleanor.nul>
>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 16:29:20 -0500
>>>Subject: Polar Orbiters?


>>>Has anyone investigated references to at least one polar
>>>orbiting satellite discovered during the Sputnik era,

>>>and presumed therefore not of Earthly origin?

>>Eleanor, thanks for the incentive,

>>Some folk might have already found this quote from:

>>http://www.violations.dabsol.co.uk/probe/probepart2.htm

>>"Dr. Luis Corralos, a Venezuelan astronomer working for his
>>National Communications Ministry, discovered an unclear image of
>>an unknown object apparently trailing Sputnik II, the Soviet
>>satellite launched on 4th November 1957. Investigations were
>>instigated but no public explanation has ever been given... on
>>4th January 1960, not one but two objects of sizeable
>>proportions were detected in polar orbit. These objects were
>>estimated to weigh 15 tons each (compared to the largest US
>>satellite of that time which weighed only 500lbs or the Soviet=92s
>>3000lb.)... US National Space Surveillance Control Centre
>>(NSSCC) formally admitted that an unidentified =91satellite=92 was
>>in polar orbit, although with a rider that a natural explanation
>>would probably be forthcoming at a later date. It wasn=92t, or at
>>least none was made available."

><snip>

>>Trying for hard details of polar orbit sats. is otherwise a no-go
>>area, probably 'cos many of them (post 'mid-60's) were spy sats.
>>and presumably still verboten to discuss (see "Perceptions" index
>>for CIA).

>Amateur skywatchers have been tracking polar orbiting vehicles
for decades, see their activities described at:

>http://www.satellite.eu.org/satintro.html

>The problem with the 'violations' site you mention is it's
hopelessly crammed with ancient bunk and modern mistakes. The
most relevant misinformation re the 'polar orbit sightings' in
1960 is the claim that military launchings into such orbit
didn't begin until later. Some UFO writer just made that up --
possibly confident that nobody in his target audience would have
the competence or concern to check on the claim -- but
(surprise!) it's not true: Discoverer launchings into polar
orbit began in 1959 (there were eight that year). Many ejected
recoverable capsules, but most of these went off course and
entered new orbital trajectories.

>This sort of factual atrocity is no stranger to the
'violations' sight, as even a cursory overview can show. In its
section on 'astronaut UFO sightings', it has a picture of an
instrument boom extending from an Apollo spacecraft and calls it
a 'cylinder-shaped UFO'. It also has another picture attributed
to Apollo-12 of a classic decorated discoid object that 'NASA
won't comment on' -- false, of course, as NASA tells anybody who
asks that the image is of the sunlit end of a jettisoned S-IV-b
rocket stage, suitably airbrushed by a British UFO magazine to
remove the edges.

>So I suggest you need to dig more deeply into this interesting
historical claim.


What about the claim of a 15 ton object in Polar orbit, Jim? I
belive that started this thread. Let's not be led off course by
squirrel tracks when we are hunting moose. Is there factual
information on that?

Don Ledger









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   Apr > Apr 3

                        Re: Star Trek & UFOs - Shough

From: Martin Shough <mshough.nul>
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 19:22:00 +0100
Fwd Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 05:33:04 -0500
Subject: Re: Star Trek & UFOs - Shough


>From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 11:05:52 -0600
>Subject: Re: Star Trek & UFOs

>>From: Diana Cammack <cammack.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 16:08:01 +0200
>>Subject: Re: Star Trek & UFOs

>>>From: Aaron LeClair <force.nul>
>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 04:07:46 -0500
>>>Subject: Star-Trek & UFOs?

>>>I would like to know of any abduction reports on record before
>>>the 60s. This would rule out Star Trek having an influence on
>>>the abduction case.

>Don't worry about it. There's no way to logically prove that any
>television program or movie "contaminated" any sighting or
>abduction report. Explain the mechanism to me.

>I go into a theater, see E.T. and on the drive home, I see a
>flying saucer. How exactly did my watching E.T. cause me to see
>the saucer?

If you are of sound mind it probably wouldn't. On the other hand
if you drive home, go to bed, and then wake up in the morning
'remembering' that you saw the saucer, it just might

>If I go to a cowboy movie, and I see a cowboy while
>I'm driving home, does that mean the movie made me see the
>cowboy? I went to see Planet of the Apes and didn't see a single
>monkey on my way home. It doesn't make any sense! But when I see
>an alien movie, suddenly my mind is all confused and I start
>seeing all kinds of nutty things that aren't there. Completely
>ridiculous.

The point is that if you were predisposed to "seeing things"
that night, then you might more probably have seen an ape than,
say, an alligator. It's not completely ridiculous that images we
see become incorporated into our mental life. Dreams are just
the obvious example we can all attest to. Rarer kinds of
'visionary' experience  - call them what you like - presumably
behave the same. If hallucinations did not incorporate familiar
sense material they would always be completely random patterns
of light and shape without meaning. They aren't. They use
powerful imagery and tell stories. Protesting that similar
exploitation of available imagery in UFO experiences is
impossible won't help your case.

This is most obviously true in some vivid contact and abduction
reports of ambiguous reality-status. Even if there is an
empirical core phenomenon, that wouldn't exclude some personal
psychological material getting in there as well.

More generally, it is proven, by half a century of study of
IFOs, that how people describe what they see in the sky is
definitely influenced by expectations picked up from current
imagery. You don't have to conclude that there's no signal; but
you can't deny that there is as yet no cast-iron method of
filtering it from the noise.


Martin Shough







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   Apr > Apr 3

              Re: Why I Support Alien Abduction Study - Harney

From: John Harney <magonia.nul>
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 19:34:10 +0100
Fwd Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 05:34:45 -0500
Subject: Re: Why I Support Alien Abduction Study - Harney


>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 18:00:26 -0500
>Subject: Re: Why I Support Alien Abduction Study

>>From: Nick Pope <nick.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 23:39:09 +0100
>>Subject: Why I Support Alien Abduction Study

>>Over recent months I've posted a few times on the subject of the
>>study into the alien abduction phenomenon being carried out by
>>psychologists at Goldsmiths College, University of London.

>>Given the fact that Professor Chris French (a confessed sceptic
>>on the ETH) is undertaking this study, some people have
>>expressed surprise that I've commended this project and actively
>>encouraged abductees and experiencers to take part. I wanted to
>>explain my thinking on this. There are three main reasons why I
>>support this initiative.

>>Firstly, whatever Chris French's personal views, he and his team
>>are being scrupulous so far as methodology and protocols are
>>concerned. He's consulted with parapsychologists, ufologists and
>>experiencers. Witness confidentiality is paramount, and
>>participants can use pseudonyms if they wish.

>>Secondly, ufologists often complain that scientists don't take
>>an interest in UFOs or alien abductions. I believe it would send
>>the wrong message if ufologists complain about one of the rare
>>occasions when the scientific community is taking an interest.
>>This is, after all, proper science. Data collected from
>>abductees will be compared with data from a control sample
>>matched on such factors as gender and age. The intention is to
>>publish the results in scientific journals.

>My main 'worry' about such a study is that, being psychologists,
>they will confine their study to the verbal testimony and ignore
>physical effects/evidence.

How interesting it is that any scientific projects which attempt
to resolve any questions relevant to ufology always seem to
generate great anxiety in certain quarters. Is it feared that
the Goldsmiths College team will eventually arrive at the
"wrong" answers to the UFO abduction enigma?

Surely, if anything alleged to be physical evidence in
connection with UFO abduction reports is presented to the
psychologists, they are quite capable of submitting it to the
appropriate experts for evaluation.


John Harney






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               Re: Why I Support Alien Abduction Study - Pope

From: Nick Pope <nick.nul>
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 19:56:00 +0100
Fwd Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 05:35:45 -0500
Subject: Re: Why I Support Alien Abduction Study - Pope


>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 18:00:26 -0500
>Subject: Re: Why I Support Alien Abduction Study

>>From: Nick Pope <nick.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 23:39:09 +0100
>>Subject: Why I Support Alien Abduction Study

>>Over recent months I've posted a few times on the subject of the
>>study into the alien abduction phenomenon being carried out by
>>psychologists at Goldsmiths College, University of London.

<snip>

>My main 'worry' about such a study is that, being psychologists,
>they will confine their study to the verbal testimony and ignore
>physical effects/evidence.

>(Consider, that John Mack has argued something like this: we
>will never have convincing physical evidence.

>The corollary to this is, why look?

>I wouldn't believe in the abduction stuff either... without the
>evidence provided by many pain vanilla sightings and also the
>UFO sighting reports that are made by the abductees.

>For example, would he take a Walton type case, analyze Walton
>and ignore everything else?

Bruce,

There are three parts to the study. The first involves
administering questionnaires that will provide data on various
psychological factors that have been put forward as being
relevant to abductions. The second involves testing for the
higher levels of psychic ability often reported by abductees. In
each of these work strands, data will also be collected from a
control sample matched on such factors as age and gender. The
third work strand involves undertaking detailed interviews with
participants. This will present an opportunity for discussing
any physical effects and evidence, although you're right that
the focus will be on psychological factors, as is inevitable
given that the study's being carried out by psychologists. But
this is where the "everything else" that you mention in relation
to a Walton type case could come out. If funding is secured for
a follow-up study, it may be that the scope of the
investigations can be widened.

Incidentally, you might be interested in an account of a
scientific analysis of a suspected alien implant, coordinated by
Dr Susan Blackmore:

http://www.susanblackmore.co.uk/journalism/ufo97.html

An interview with Professor Chris French was printed in the
January 2004 issue of UFO Magazine. He gives a lot of detail
about the Goldsmiths College study. I wrote the questions, so
have all the material on my computer. I'll post the interview
here as soon as I can, so you and others can see what Chris had
to say about the scope of the study, the methodology, etc.


Best wishes,

Nick Pope








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                           Re: Galileo - Maccabee

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 14:15:54 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 05:38:15 -0500
Subject: Re: Galileo - Maccabee


>From: Maurice Woolf <MauriceW.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 15:45:23 +0200
>Subject: Galileo


>Galileo maintained the earth was not the center of all existence >
>and was burnt at the stake for believing same. I have been
>following the List and I think UFOs can be debunked if anyone
>tried hard enough.


Minor historical note (but not minor for Galileo).

Giordano Bruno was burned, not Galileo.

Galileo was forced (made an offer he couldn't refuse) to recant
his theories of the solar system (which were based on the theory
of Copernicus... who published after he was beyond... far
beyond... the reach of the authorities)








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                       Re: Star Trek & UFOs - Chapman

From: Mary Chapman <alfie107.nul>
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 11:14:17 -0800
Fwd Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 05:40:06 -0500
Subject: Re: Star Trek & UFOs - Chapman


>From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 11:05:52 -0600
>Subject: Re: Star Trek & UFOs

>>From: Diana Cammack <cammack.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 16:08:01 +0200
>>Subject: Re: Star Trek & UFOs

>>>From: Aaron LeClair <force.nul>
>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 04:07:46 -0500
>>>Subject: Star-Trek & UFOs?

>>>I would like to know of any abduction reports on record before
>>>the 60s. This would rule out Star Trek having an influence on
>>>the abduction case.

>Don't worry about it. There's no way to logically prove that any
>television program or movie "contaminated" any sighting or
>abduction report. Explain the mechanism to me.

>I go into a theater, see E.T. and on the drive home, I see a
>flying saucer. How exactly did my watching E.T. cause me to see
>the saucer? If I go to a cowboy movie, and I see a cowboy while
>I'm driving home, does that mean the movie made me see the
>cowboy? I went to see Planet of the Apes and didn't see a single
>monkey on my way home. It doesn't make any sense! But when I see
>an alien movie, suddenly my mind is all confused and I start
>seeing all kinds of nutty things that aren't there. Completely
>ridiculous.

>>Not to keep beating the same drum, but again i urge researchers
>>to look beyond the USA and other TV-cultures, for it is only
>>there that Star Trek has tainted evidence.

>I fail to see where or how any evidence has been "tainted". This
>bad skeptical argument has been bandied about by folks like
>Martin Kottmeyer for such a long time, people are starting to
>see it as valid, when it isn't! If somebody tells you, "Oh, this
>sighting was obviously influenced by an episode of The Outer
>Limits", you get them to explain exactly how that happens.

>"Well... uh... duh....." Exactly.

Tim:

Although your line of reasoning is very valid, I'd like to offer
another explanation.  In theory, it_is_quite possible that the
UFO/Abductee descriptions in some ways relate to T.V. programs
or sci-fi literature.  If the descriptions of ETs happen to be
similar to those as depicted in the movies or television , it
could very well be because in our stage of development our
perceptions do not allow us the_exact_formula for replicating
their image in our mind.  Therefore, our brain takes over and
analyzes the incoming data as it relates to something known to
us.  The_Aliens_may actually look much different than the
mainstream descriptions, but the confounded brain cannot
accurately conjure up the_actual and factual_manifestation, so
it sends out a more familiar image.  Or, maybe the ETs
themselves_make up_their own image to coincide with our ideas
about them?  Maybe they are clever enough and advanced enough to
manufacture an illusion that coincides with our beliefs.  When
in Rome...?

Some of the earlier postings regarding ETs, UFOs, Fairies, and
the Ancient gods eluded to this idea in my mind.  Those little
Fairies, green men, Pagan Gods, etc., if seen today, might also
be described as looking like the Greys, Reptilians, or Preying
Mantis types of aliens.

It may be that our descriptions have more to do with our current
state of mental perceptions than of accurate imaging.

Mary









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                           Re: Galileo - Friedman

From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul>
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 17:57:43 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 06:04:11 -0500
Subject: Re: Galileo - Friedman


>From: Martin Shough <mshough.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 17:31:22 +0100
>Subject: Re: Galileo

>>From: Maurice Woolf <MauriceW.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 15:45:23 +0200
>>Subject: Galileo

>>Hallo to you all,

>>Galileo maintained the earth was not the center of all existence
>>and was burnt at the stake for believing same. I have been
>>following the List and I think UFOs can be debunked if anyone
>>tried hard enough.

>In the interests of historical accuracy, Galileo was not burned
>at the stake.

In the interest of good sense and historical accuracy, a number
of so-called skeptics have been trying extremely hard for

Note Phil Klass' 4 books and Don Menzel's 3.

Remember the question isn't "What are UFOs?", but are any of the
unexplained sightings - (1.5% of Blue Book Special Report 14's
3201 sightings, could _not_ be explained completely separate from
the 9.5% listed as Insufficient Information - inteligently
controlled ET spacecraft? Note, too, that the probability that
the true UNKNOWNS were just missed KNOWNS was less than 1% for
starters.

By the way do you have any evidence to support your
proclamation? Or is it just wishful thinking because you don't
want to admit you haven't done your homework?


Stan Friedman








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                      Re: Time Travel & UFOs - Friedman

From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul>
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 18:16:20 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 06:08:01 -0500
Subject: Re: Time Travel & UFOs - Friedman


>From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 15:03:05 -0600
>Subject: Re: Time Travel & UFOs

>>From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 23:58:11 EST
>>Subject: Time Travel & UFOs

>>Why is it the more I study the subject of 'time' the more it
>>looks like it doesn't exist?

>>So is the future the past, the past the future?

>No, the future and the past, just like the present, are not much
>more than clouds of probabilities. That is, if you did manage to
>create a stable bubble of this universe around yourself and
>travel "back" into time, it would quickly (relatively) dissolve
>into a gray, squishy haze of randomizing and virtualizing
>particles.

>>I did hear Mr. Friedman say at a lecture, and forgive me if I
>>misquote but I recall him saying:
>>"The future is not an extrapolation of the past"

>That sounds correct. The future is a rough approximation of the
>present, then it also quickly evaporates/congeals into a mush of
>probabilities. We live in a little "lag zone" between the
>present (which we can never actively experience, because by the
>time we experience and understand it, it's already become part
>of the past) and the past.

>It's possible, I suppose, that by traveling into the past or the
>future, we might bring our perception to it, and since we become
>a quantum observer then, we might bring some kind of stability
>to the alternate universe. I wouldn't bet on it, though.


What I have been saying for many years is that technological
progress comes from doing things differently in an unpredictable
way. The future (Technologically speaking) is not an
extrapolation of the past. A laser is not just a better
lightbulb. A nuclear rocket is not just a better chemical
rocket. New physics is required in both cases.

Stan Friedman







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                Re: Radio Search For ET Draws A Blank - Pope

From: Nick Pope <nick.nul>
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 23:25:14 +0100
Fwd Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 06:08:48 -0500
Subject: Re: Radio Search For ET Draws A Blank - Pope


>From: Ray Dickenson <editor.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 14:16:03 +0100
>Subject: Re: Radio Search For ET Draws A Blank

>>From: Nick Pope <nick.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 19:05:08 +0100
>>Subject: Re: Radio Search For ET Draws A Blank

<snip>

>>Notwithstanding the above, my personal view is that SETI is
>>worth trying. I look forward to debating this with Stan in the
>>margins of the X-Conference.

>Your hopefulness is understandable but is it commendable?

>A simple statistical look at just our galaxy's 'material life'
>probabilities:

>http://www.perceptions.couk.com/uef/setigift2.html#INTELLIGENCE

>says:

>1) some galactic life hasn't reached intelligence;

>2) some galactic life is 'primitive' - say from homo habilis
>level to just past (our) level of mechanical/radio technology;

>3) some galactic life is 'advanced' - possibly by millions of
>years - long using _only_ energy-field technologies.

>Question 1 - do we want to hear, even from the past, radio
>messages sent by beings at our WorldWarI level - i.e. greedy,
>murderous, racist primitives?

<snip>

>Question 2 - do we want any such nearby beings to hear us?

>Question 3 - if we don't (and I don't), shouldn't we be trying
>to listen-in on 'advanced' communications? (Listening more
>advisable than shouting?).

<snip>

Ray,

Answer 1 - I do. In the first instance, finding the sort of data
you envisage would in itself give a definitive answer to the
question of whether we are the only civilisation in the
universe. The issue of content is secondary, but would doubtless
be fascinating, especially if decipherable.

Answer 2 - The cat is out of the bag. We have been a detectable
civilisation for many years, most notably because of our
television broadcasts. And then there's the message sent towards
the M13 star cluster in 1974 by Carl Sagan and Frank Drake, from
Arecibo.

Answer 3 - I think we should both listen and look (optical SETI
is becoming increasingly sophisticated). But if there are
communicative civilisations out there, the "interstellar
internet" postulated by Timothy Ferris seems a good model of
what we might find.


Best wishes,

Nick Pope








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              Re: Radio Search For ET Draws A Blank - Friedman

From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul>
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 19:12:18 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 06:11:15 -0500
Subject: Re: Radio Search For ET Draws A Blank - Friedman


>From: Nick Pope <nick.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 19:05:08 +0100
>Subject: Re: Radio Search For ET Draws A Blank

>>From: Ray Dickenson <editor.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 17:30:47 +0100
>>Subject: Radio Search For ET Draws A Blank

><snip>

>>"A civilization very much more advanced than we will be engaged
>>in a busy communications traffic with its peers; but not with
>>us, and not via technologies accessible to us." - from
>>"Communication with Extraterrestrial Intelligence" - by Carl
>>Sagan (ed.) 1973 p. 366

>>and

>>"Communication is a universal, but the use of radio is a
>>parochial, when we go out into the Galaxy... a radio signal will
>>be about as useful as a smoke signal. Communication evolves" -
>>from "Evolving the Alien" - by Profs. Jack Cohen & Ian Stewart,
>>2002. ISBN 0-09-187927-2

>And not forgetting my personal favourite, from Terence McKenna:

>"To search expectantly for a radio signal from an
>extraterrestrial source is probably as culture-bound a
>presumption as to search the galaxy for a good Italian
>restaurant".

>The quote comes from an essay entitled "Tryptamine Hallucinogens
>and Consciousness", first published in 1992. John Mack uses the
>quote in "Abductions" (page 410 in the issue I have).

>Notwithstanding the above, my personal view is that SETI is
>worth trying. I look forward to debating this with Stan in the
>margins of the X-Conference.


Nick I invite you and others on the is List to read my Challenge
To Seti Specialists, on my website:

http://www.v-j-enterprises.com/sfpage.html

I agree that there is benefit to people who are working on radio
telescope SETI, but can't find a good excuse if one is truly
interested in locationg ET intelligence. Theirs is a search for
radio signals.. having not the slightest evidence that any are
out there to be detected.


Stan Friedman
See you at the X Conference









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                       Re: Polar Orbiters? - Dickenson

From: Ray Dickenson <editor.nul>
Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 00:36:09 +0100
Fwd Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 06:12:08 -0500
Subject: Re: Polar Orbiters? - Dickenson


>From: James Oberg <joberg.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 09:49:41 -0600
>Subject: Re: Polar Orbiters?

>>From: Ray Dickenson <editor.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 12:26:12 +0100
>>Subject: Re: Polar Orbiters?

>>>From: Eleanor White <eleanor.nul>
>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 16:29:20 -0500
>>>Subject: Polar Orbiters?

>>>Has anyone investigated references to at least one polar
>>>orbiting satellite discovered during the Sputnik era,
>>>and presumed therefore not of Earthly origin?

>>Eleanor, thanks for the incentive,

>>Some folk might have already found this quote from:

>>http://www.violations.dabsol.co.uk/probe/probepart2.htm

>The problem with the 'violations' site you mention is it's
>hopelessly crammed with ancient bunk and modern mistakes.

James, I'm not a `believer' or a `debunker', just a collector of
references.

If an article has attributions to named sources - and that
article gives two (academic) sources for those two reports - then
believers or debunkers can go digging; I've done my bit.

And I repeat - the actual numbers of USA/USSR polar orbiters
are fuzzy and hard detail is unattainable for obvious (spy sat.)
reason. E.g. your own "1959 launch reports" seems to be
contradicted by the "1960 Was First Polar Launch" quote by others
on this List (Bob Young) and by NASDA site.

Us folk on the ground eventually learn that lies and
misdirections are regarded as `necessary language' by
establishments (and their minions).


Cheers

Ray D

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Perceptions" http://www.perceptions.couk.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~







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                      Re: Filers Files #15 - Dickenson

From: Ray Dickenson <editor.nul>
Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 00:37:13 +0100
Fwd Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 06:53:28 -0500
Subject: Re: Filers Files #15 - Dickenson


>From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 19:54:53 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
>Subject: Re: Filers Files #15 - Balaskas

>>From: George A. Filer <Majorstar.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 14:52:06 -0500
>>Subject: Filers Files #15

>>Methane Gas on Mars Indicates Life.

>Since we know for sure that there is at least one planet with
>life (Earth), there have been many violent meteor/comet impacts
>with the Earth in the past and recently published papers have
>shown that organisms in rocks can indeed survive high levels of
>radiation and the extremes temperatures of space, a simple and
>logical conclusion is that all ETs in our galaxy, if they do
>exist, originated on Earth!

Not quite Nick, you're presuming that life originated here
first. It could be the other way round - as many eminent
scientists have suggested.


Cheers

Ray

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Perceptions" http://www.perceptions.couk.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~







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              Re: Radio Search For ET Draws A Blank - Dickenson

From: Ray Dickenson <editor.nul>
Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 00:37:29 +0100
Fwd Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 06:55:36 -0500
Subject: Re: Radio Search For ET Draws A Blank - Dickenson


>From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 08:38:30 -0600
>Subject: Re: Radio Search For ET Draws A Blank

>>From: Ray Dickenson <editor.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 14:16:03 +0100
>>Subject: Re: Radio Search For ET Draws A Blank

<snip>

>I would like to hear, if only to get a look at some possible
>alternate scenarios for potential development. Although because
>history is such an odd string of chance occurances, I don't
>think we'd ever find another civilization that would give us an
>accurate "case on point."

>>Question 2 - do we want any such nearby beings to hear us?

>Fortunately, we don't have to worry too much about that, unless
>they've come up with some Stargate technology or something.

Hi Tim, and isn't that a rather big "unless"?

>>Question 3 - if we don't (and I don't), shouldn't we be trying
>>to listen-in on 'advanced' communications? (Listening more
>>advisable than shouting?).

>Absolutely. Listen quietly is definitely the way to go. I
>personally think that an insect-like being (if any) is a likely
>type of intelligent creature to make its way through space. Just
>because there are so many successful insect types on Earth. Now,
>I don't know if ants or bees or termites have "souls" or the
>equivalent form of self-awareness. I'm guessing not. So we might
>expect such a creature to track us down from our radio signals
>and simply, dispassionately overrun us.

>The second type of being, perhaps even more prevalent, would be
>the mindless reproducing "Von Neumann" machine.
<snip>
>Also not a very pleasant end for humanity.

Yup Tim, we share many s.f. sources - but I'm always forced, by
personal bg., to check ultimate horror stories: the plans of our
own "rulers" - see;

http://www.perceptions.couk.com/why.html

Thankfully real history tells us that on Earth, and maybe
elsewhere, those plans have mostly been subverted - we ordinary
folk survive, the rulers go extinct. Check "altruist survivor" -
 Google

But with bigger, more deadly and more pervasive weaponry ... who
knows? It could be a photo-finish, do we get zapped by our own
megalomaniac leaders - or by the insect/robot/vampire invaders?

Unless that "altruist survivor" principle is universal.


Cheers

Ray

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Perceptions" http://www.perceptions.couk.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~







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              Re: The Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices -

From: Kelly Freeman <Khfflsciufo.nul>
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 22:02:21 EST
Fwd Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 06:59:00 -0500
Subject: Re: The Phoenix Lights - Man Made Hoax Devices -


>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Thu. 01 Apr 2004 16:58:18 -0400
>Subject: Re: The Phoenix Lights - Man Made Devices

>Actually I can be great fun. But wait until you've been going
>over stuff like this for 8 years or so, then you'll see where
>I'm coming from.

Duly noted.

>Airships are something different but you have to start in
>1895.....

Exactly..... :)


K.F.









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                       Re: Filers Files #15 - Stanford

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 00:15:16 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 07:08:05 -0500
Subject: Re: Filers Files #15 - Stanford


>From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 19:54:53 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
>Subject: Re: Filers Files #15 - Balaskas

>>From: George A. Filer <Majorstar.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 14:52:06 -0500
>>Subject: Filers Files #15

><snip>

>>Methane Gas on Mars Indicates Life.

>>Two different teams, one using Mars Express, the second using
>>the Canada-France-Hawaii telescope, have discovered about the
>>same proportion of methane in the Martian atmosphere (roughly
>>1/100,000,000). This is about 100 times less than on Earth.
>>According to the second team, "methanogenesis by living
>>subterranean organisms is the most likely explanation" (living
>>now, not fossils). Source:
>>http://mainlymartian.blogs.com/2004/03/methane_and_thu.html
>>Jean-Pierre Pharabod

><snip>

>York University space scientist John Caldwell and his graduate
>student Tatiana Ouvarova have made a proposal to use the Hubble
>Space Telescope (HST) to search for sulphur dioxide (SO2) on
>Mars (You may recall that Prof. Caldwell was the only researcher
>to use the HST to study the chemical composition of the Moon -
>something people considered impossible because the Moon was too
>close and much too bright). If they do detect SO2 in the Martian
>atmosphere, this would be proof of recent volcanic activity on
>Mars and thus the most probable explanation for the source of
>methane gas detected by CFH and ESA. Until this search for SO2
>is made, no one will be able to say with certainy that the
>methane discovered on Mars has a biological origin.

>So, unless the the gyros on the soon to be retired HST suddenly
>fail or it experiences other major technical problems and NASA
>informs them that their search for SO2 cannot be done, we will
>not have too long to wait before we can say with confidence
>whether life has been discovered on Mars or not.


Nick,

The finding of active volcanoes on Mars producing SO2 would in
no way preclude methane produced by living organisms. Earth has
plenty of active volcanoes producing SO2, but hang around a
cattle feed lot or even around a mexican restaurant after
someone has had his fill of frijoles (aka., beans) and you will
detect plenty of methane production!

The finding of SO2 on Mars would not prove that the methane is
of volcanic origin! I thought you were supposed to have a
scientific background Nick, but I guess it has been highly
diluted by your fundamentalist Christianity that believes in a
ridiculously young earth and would hope that no native life is
found on Mars, or at least if it is there, that it was knocked
there from earth due to a cosmic impact because your mythical,
Biblical Genesis doesn't tell of your particular brand of god
breathing any life into things on Mars! I'm not knocking your
Christianity, Nick, but the irrational, pseudo-scientific
'baggage' that some of you insist must be a part of it.

The rocks of Maryland have not been related to any volcanic
activity in about 500,000,000 years, yet sulphur abounds as
various compounds, some more stable, some transitional (and
stinking terribly), while millions of people, cattle, and other
living organisms (including some bacteria) are making methane
today. The presence of SO2 does not preclude methane of organic
origin.

So, although there could conceivably be SO2 left over from
ancient volcanism on Mars, it would certainly not prove that
volcanoes are actively producing it and producing the methane
present today. Furthermore, as I said, the presence of volcanic
SO2 does not preclude the organic production of methane.

As to the following statement of yours, Nick, it is unbecoming
to you as a person with scientific training:

>If life is detected on Mars, it will almostly certainly have
>originated from Earth.

There is not one stitch of evidence on which to base such a
statement, you know it, and as a scientist (if that's what your
education suggest you should be) you should be ashamed to make
such a baseless statement.

Put up (the evidence) or shut up, Nick. Conclusively, there was
an ancient sea on Mars. What would really be surprising is if
life did not develop there, quite independently of earth.

Also, that's an odd statement (earth origin of any Mars life)
considering that you recently sent me a private communication
stating that you had a discovery that suggests the earth is very
young!

Do you know how long even the Martian meteorite with the least
in-space time (based on cosmogenic isotopes) was in space before
its orbit intetsected earth's and it fell here? Well, the
shortest time in space of any of them is that of the Martian
meteorite Dar al Gani 476 (Sample in my collection.), which was
in space for 1.16 (plus or minus 0.11) million years (Wadhwa et
al, 2000). The longest in space was Dhofar 019 (Sample is in my
collection.), having made a 19.8 (plus or minus 2.3) million
year journey to earth (Borg et al., 2001). I would expect
terrestrial material launched in a cosmic impact (albeit of a
totally vitrified nature) would take at least that long to reach
Mars, and since in your religious dogma the earth is only a few
thousand years of age, forget 'seeding' Mars, because your
hypothesized launch from, say, a 5,000 year-old Earth has hardly
had time to arrive there. :)

By the way, Nick, there is no evidence whatsoever, that viable
DNA can last so long as the million-years-plus involved in a
natural Earth-to-Mars journey, especially under the thermal and
radiational conditions that would be encountered. Do you realize
what one cosmic ray burst could do to it? How many of those
might it encounter in a million-year-plus journey?

The aforementioned Martian meteorites are all impact-shocked
basalt. So shocked are they, in fact, that one of their
minerals, plagioclase, has been diaplectically transformed into
a glass called maskylenite. By contrast, with launch
requirements on Mars, the energy required to launch terrestrial
rock into space would not form a diaplectic glass (in which
bacteria would not survive, anyhow), but a molten mass akin to
(if not identical to) tektite glass in which temperatures would
have reached over 1,200 to 1,400 degrees centigrade, destroying
any bacteria or viruses.

>During this
>period of time, the Earth has experienced many major impacts by
>large asteroids and comets which sent rocks harbouring many of
>these Earth organisms on voyages in all directions of space at
>escape velocities (over 7 miles per second). Not only would many
>of these rocks with living organisms from Earth have reached all
>planets in our solar system but they could very well have seeded
>millions of other worlds orbiting distant stars too.

Worse than science fiction, scientific feces!: "... which sent
rocks harboring many of these Earth organisms on voyages... many
of these rocks have reached all planets in our solar
sysytem....."

Bring it on, Nick! Where's your evidence?! Truth told, there is
none. You try to feed our readers with whole cloth fiction to
feed your fantasy that all organic life was created on earth
because by your concept, your god breathed life into lifeless
matter on earth, alone. Therefore, you believe that if there's
life elsewhere, it came from the 'creation' allegedly described
in your particulatr brand of mythology!

Talk about an earth-centered (as far as life goes) universe! You
live, psychologically, in a pre-Copernican world, Nick, while
claiming to me a modern scientist! Any cosmic body massive
enough to strike the earth hard enough as to launch terrestrial
materials to such speed as to not only escape earth's gravity,
but to reach Mars, would itself be totally vaporized during the
impact launch. The terrestrial materials that might (in only the
largest of impacts) be launched to escape velocity would have
absorbed so much kinetic energy of the impactor as to be totally
melted. That's hardly likely to send viable organisms to Mars or
anywhere else!

In fact, the only terrestrial materials that have ever been
demonstrated to have been launched into space by the most
gigantic of such cosmic impacts did not even reach parabolic or
hyperbolic velocities and fell back to earth from their
elliptical (and sub-elliptical) journies as tektites, which were
so molten as to show no crystals and are so homogenous as to
shown only schleiren flows due to areas of slightly differential
silicate concentrations.

There is not any indisputable evidence that fossil organisms
have been found in Martial meteorites, much less viable bacteria
or visuses! Personally, I suspect that some of the putative
nanobacteria found in one or two martian meteorites might be
fossil organisms, but even on that the jury is still out. No one
has any evidence that viable organisms (as contrast with the
putative fossils) have survived Mars-to-Terra (Earth) launch and
transport, however. It is more than a little irresponsible of
you to say that impacts on earth, "...sent rocks harboring many
of these Earth organisms on voyages... many of these rocks have
reached all planets in our solar sysytem....."

Unless you can show us your omniscient crystal ball, Nick, cool
it! IMO, you are making a pseudo-scientific fool of yourself.

I take your own ludicrous words as the proof:

>...all ETs in our galaxy, if they do
>exist, originated on Earth!

Oh, Omniscient One! Reveal to us more! Please, much more! :)

Seriously, however, IMO, your declaration, above, is the most
pseudo-scientific and really quite stupid thing I have ever
heard from anyone on this List who has professed scientific
training.

There are, evidently, a lot of confused people out there who
might mistakenly believe that you are telling them scientific
and religious truth, combined.

After all, Pat Robertson has quite a following, and a friend
told me recently that Robertson has said that anyone involved
with UFOs should be burned at the stake! I love the Christian
charity of the 'Religious Right'. :) So watch out, Nick, your
'brothers-in-Christ' might get you. :-o

But, dream on, believe that all life originated on earth, if you
dare! I can see Copernicus 'turning over in his grave'! Your
'universe' and your concept of god are very small, indeed.

What you contribute to this List that is objective and
scientific is welcome and good, Nick; but please spare us your
fundamentalistic view of 'creation'. It contains a bit too much
intellectual methane, and someone might strike a scientific
match.


Ray Stanford








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   Apr > Apr 3

                    Technical Marvel Robot Real Or Fake?

From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 00:54:09 EST
Fwd Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 07:09:19 -0500
Subject: Technical Marvel Robot Real Or Fake?



http://www.r50rd.co.uk/research/internal/v2i/engin/videos/stop_test.htm

http://www.r50rd.co.uk/research/internal/v2i/engin/

Now this video and website blew me away. If we can make
something like this I expect to see kids using them to fight
each other on the streets.


Best,

Greg








   UFO UpDates
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   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   Apr > Apr 3

               Re: Caution Pravda 'Story'! UFO Fragments Yield

From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais.nul>
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 12:19:12 +0200
Fwd Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 07:11:39 -0500
Subject: Re:  Caution Pravda 'Story'! UFO Fragments Yield


>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 18:00:18 -0500
>Subject: Caution Pravda 'Story'! UFO Fragments Yield Sensational Results

>>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 08:08:13 -0800
>>Subject: Caution Pravda Story! UFO Fragments Yield Sensational Results

>>Source: Pravda

>>http://english.pravda.ru/science/19/94/378/12390_UFO.html

>>03/31/2004

>>UFO fragments yield sensational results

>>An unidentified flying object has crashed in the Far East.
>>Hundreds of people witnessed the event. The UFO crashed into the
>>rocky mountains located in the town of Dalnegorsk.

>>A strange spherical object has slightly brushed upon the mount
>>at approximately 8:00pm, January 29th, 1986. Witnesses claim
>>they saw a bright flash but did not hear anything. The glow from
>>the fire appeared rather strange: blue aureole lasted for about
>>an hour and a half.

>This story has at least some basis in truth. I recall reading
>about it in translated Russian papers shortly after it happened
>(back in the days of glassnost and perestroika). Anyway, it
>would appear that some strange material was found after
>witnesses saw a ball of light (I don';t recall exactly) crash
>into "hill 611" (named after its height... in meters)


To Bruce and the List

Perhaps there is some element of truth, but a good hoax always
has that.

I asked recently my friend Boris Shurinov, one ufologist to be
trusted if there are any in Russia, what to think of these
fantastic "revelations" of "Pravda".

He told me "it's all crap!"

To begin with, this web site has nothing to do with the
newspaper "The Pravda", so its title alone creates al lot of
confusion.

Boris has fought courageously against many false stories from
Russia and the people who have peddled them. So he has been
bitterly attacked in turn. Logically. Let's see if this happens
again, on this List.


Gildas Bourdais








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   'Its All Here In Black & White'
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   Apr > Apr 3

                      Closing The Record On Mortellaro

From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul>
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 05:42:09 _0600
Fwd Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 08:16:50 -0500
Subject: Closing The Record On Mortellaro


One Man's Opinion On The Mortellaro Affair

The only thing that kept me going with regard to Dr. Mortellaro
and his 'perceived abduction' for as long as I did was Dr.
Mortellaro himself. I believed the "man." He was that sincerely
convincing..... When his personal credibility finally
evaporated; however, so did any faith in his awkward and
unlikely tale.

His story now, in retrospect and in the opinion of this writer,
seems baldly contrived, patently juvenile and stealthily
appropriated. I'm astonished I was ever taken-in. I'm more than
a little ashamed, actually.

In my defense (and to neutralize glowing recommendations I've
written for him over the last couple of years, extant in
cyberspace) the Doctor (?) was only ever given credence, by _me_
at any rate, out of the idiosyncratic credit I feel he had
painstakingly assembled with me for my ongoing, and too late
recognized for what it was... advantage taking manipulation. I
now believe I was well and truly duped. Such is the scope of
this expressed opinion.

I _wanted_ to believe Dr. Mortellaro, because I was cloyingly
'engineered' to believe Dr. Mortellaro. I believed the "man",
such as he portrayed himself. In light of circumstances,
occurrences, evolved realizations, collected documents of saved
E_mail, and hindsight, that belief has evaporated, completely.

A practiced adept, in my opinion, at telling the listener
exactly what the listener wanted to hear, Dr. Mortellaro worked
his comfortingly cloying psychological magic for me, among
others, I feel. As time went on, this seemed to become more and
more obvious. He was flattering, accommodating, externally
validating, and self-deprecating... a "great guy", at the start
- the kind of friend you 'thought' saw _you_ the way you
_wished_ you could see yourself... no, in my opinion it was ever
a mask of cold and duplicitous calculation.

Early on, and from the beginning, Dr. M. was very careful to hit
all the appropriate (and inappropriate - come to think of it!)
'friendship' buttons with me, display all the qualifying
identifiers of empathy and compassion for me, highlight his
toleration of politics and liberal humanism to me, swear oaths
of passionate fidelity at me... and spun for me a comforting web
of perceived reality that encouraged a return to him of all
those things, plus (!) from me. A grown man, combat pilot, and
college graduate, I bought into Dr. Mortellaro for the
proverbial hook, line, and sinker. The entire experience is a
recognized personal regret, now, in a life with few regrets - a
tree producing, sadly, only regrettable fruit. Moreover, and in
my very considered estimation, it was all an axe-grinding
charade, fiction, and fantasy to facilitate a non-admitted goal
of sanguine self-promotion.

All of the insouciant and duplicitous stroking alluded to was
necessary for me to swallow extremely unlikely (totally
_unacceptable_ if not buttressed by strange lights in my own
sky!) tales of men in black, shadowy harassment by government
agents, inexplicable bugging of his home by persons unknown,
frequent abductions by alien beings, meetings with Bob Dylan,
friendships with legendary writers, a hypnotically recalled
introduction to his own 'star children', and his 'brave'
struggle with "mean-spirited boss-alien-preying-mantis beings"
that tortured him, spitefully(!), and made him have forced
reproductive relations with discomfiting persons...

That's the report! Incredulous stuff... and I bought it! Christ,
but I feel, in the 20/20 hindsight, like such a patent fool.

Thing is... all of this, 'weird stuff', was happening to this
"great guy" with a heart of 'gold', seemingly generous as the
day is long, brave as a New York fireman, and smart as two and a
half guys with Doctorate degrees (of which he had two or two and
a half!). Well, no, no, and resoundingly no.

In my defense, and in my opinion, no one of this 'calibre',
'depth of feeling', 'personal integrity', and 'reputation' could
be saying the stuff he was saying, making these stupefyingly
incredible claims... unless he was crazy... or it was really
happening to him, I reasoned. I believed, as anyone can... the
'big' lie...

And there seemed to be a whole medical community willing to
stand behind him with regard to his general sanity and to the
high-strangeness of his physical claims. Like others, some of
them significantly smarter, more experienced and more educated
than me (Budd Hopkins among them), I bought in. It was _easy_ to
do... he was a '_great_' guy... and his... feces seemed
consolidated?

<heavy sigh>

Moreover, he was being "maligned", "persecuted," "discounted,"
and "marginalized"... well nigh "destroyed" by significant
elements in the ufological community for reasons which were even
outlined to me at the time, but which I rationalized away (to my
present chagrin) as 'sour grapes' of a 'missed opportunity'...
on _their_ part! Hindsight indicates the only thing these
'Malicious Mortellaro Maligners' were actually guilty of was not
wanting to dance to the good Doctor's dictating tune (!) and
wanting to focus more on what was 'occurring' over who it was
occurring 'to'... and how 'valiant' that person was in his
'brave' struggle with it! The preceding sentence is a _key_
concept, reader, verily.

As it turned out, all the warnings, I believe, and I mean _all_
the warnings, were spot on! Doctor Mortellaro never wanted
'teammates' (in my opinion) in a righteous group struggle
against the unknown (indeed, he has no concept of teamwork); he
wanted loyal employees, employees not concerned with, and
unfettered by, the requirement of a paycheck... to validate his
wretched and humiliating fiction.

Things were tolerable only as long as the tune skipped to was
the doctor's; if not he became 'ill', was crippled with chronic
pain "that never left" him, required painkillers, emergency room
visits (once because our disloyalty made him drink too much),
and bed rest...

A normal person wanted to do something to alleviate that "pain
and _crushing_ responsibility [he] endured...". Going along with
him... helped him. _I_ felt good supporting a 'brave soldier' in
the ufological struggle. The reader begins to see, perhaps, the
pitiable and chronic 'neediness' of all this. His 'neediness'
was the well-worked lever in the 'Mortellaro support mechanism'.
I was facilitating the will of a mewling and self-involved
social infant, I've come to believe.

Our group/association was exciting and cutting_edge, at first. I
felt like we were standing on the threshold of the 'larger'
reality - a small band of intrepid players, a team of brave boys
and girls... respected equals exploring inner and outer space
(isn't that pathetic forgetting how sincere I thought it was?),
and that our efforts, our loyalties, and our fidelities were
going to be (albeit needlessly!) rewarded with some new kind of
knowledge, extraterrestrial actuality, or ufological revelation
(piquing me since I was a kid, frankly), that we could all share
in. It was not to be. Not, in my opinion, with the good Doctor,
anyway.

I had blithely entered, in my opinion, into the Cult of
Mortellaro. A cult, seemingly, every bit as paranoiac as other
cults - with distrusted 'unbelievers' and 'enemies' behind every
tree, a cloying mal-intellectual two-color totalitarianism,
regular 'prayer' meetings in the form of daily one on one or
conference phone conversations with the doctor, incessant
E_mails and an ongoing diatribe of corrosive hatred for that
which was _not_ pro-"Jim Mortellaro" or "total support" for
same!

When I think of the venom (now attributed to..._me_ ironically!
LOL!) that was spewed at others in my presence while I was in
his 'trusted' association, the litigious acts of revenge that he
would contemplate against persons who disputed his claims,
laughed at his assertions, or questioned his motivations... I'm
discomfitingly reminded that he is very likely, now, doing the
same for me. How unrestrictedly and tragically pathetic...
forgetting how discomfiting and personally threatening it truly
is!

Many times he regaled me with tales of reports to his local
authorities regarding the suspected criminal behaviors of his
detractors, detailing to me their 'alleged' criminal activities.
Then there was the unceasing name-calling, well-poisoning, and
hate-mongering that went on and on and on... without surcease...
All this began to take its toll on an increasingly strained
relationship, forgetting that that 'hatred' has now made its way
around to me.

Coupled with his increasingly inappreciative appropriation of
skills he didn't have, opportunities not presented to him, and
labor he couldn't accomplish on his own (I mean he couldn't _do_
anything but talk, really) he used me (and others) to
shamelessly prosecute, in my opinion, his shallow agenda of
bald, featureless, and totally unwarranted self-promotion.

I began to get cold feet regarding a continued association given
the direction we seemed to be taking. I asserted my concerns by
withdrawing - a couple of times - from the AlienView Group List
I could no longer contribute competently to, because of the
Doctor's senseless moderation and by withdrawing from
participation in the radio program because creative and
philosophical disagreements with the Doctor made it impossible
to be in the same bleeding 'room' with him!

Oh, the hue and cry, the sturm and drang, the swearing oaths,
and the impassioned proclamations of betrayal he'd "always
expected" from me! I stood firm. I began asking why. I wanted
him to validate himself... I requested that he qualify himself.
I expected him to justify himself. I demanded that he find a way
to contribute equal effort to the team, which to that point was
flatly non-existent. Initially - strategically? - he folded, and
opted, I thought, for more fairness and openness in the interest
of our substantive and very rewarding mutual association - no.

Astonishingly, I found out, and innocently too, that he had
stealthily been working for a consensus with other group members
exploring my removal from the association. Talk about
blindsiding, and that "Business made it necessary..."

You know, as angry as I ever got with him or as aggravated as I
ever felt with him, as disappointed as I was ever to become with
him, as disgusted as I _became_ with the suppurating reality of
his true politics, outlook, worldview, and agenda, it never
occurred to me to try to oust him from group. You could have
knocked me over with the proverbial feather that he'd consider
that with me! Things were dicey, by that point, sure, but we
were friends, damn it, brothers of the 'ufological fray' _and_
he was a person that I'd already gone the distance for! In
ardent spades, patient reader!

If he told me once, he told me a thousand times, "I owe you
forever, Al", he said that to me and in front of others,
"Forever", apparently, had a 'shelf-life or 'best if used
by' date.

Made abruptly conscious with the knowledge of that transparent,
completely unexpected, and very personal betrayal, I began to
identify other significant flaws in our association. If he was
less than forthcoming with regard to simple loyalty - and was
just 'business' after all, with key details of the shadowy
business plans involving all of us, his inability to
appropriately subordinate himself to group goals (over
self-involved goals - and the provoked concern he nurtured
over intentions regarding other group members, what _else_
might he be less than forthcoming about?

He manifested such a twisted morass of bile, hatred, loathing,
and corrosive envy - in my opinion - continuing on with the
program as it stood was approaching impossibility. It occurred
to me that if we took one more step on the path as was outlined,
trusting people were going to be roped into jumping through
Mortellaro's senseless hoops like abused third-worlders,
"AlienViews" was going to be put on freaking cigarette lighters,
and a significant disservice in the form of a distorted cant,
was going to be done to aggregate Ufology!

Meanwhile the rest of us would be so wrapped up in guilt and
assumed responsibility that escape would be a lot more
difficult, if not impossible! I put my foot down and began
indicating that some 'rethinking' of our charter was made
necessary. Essentially, I pulled the throttles back as we were
lurching down the runway for takeoff, below minimums.....

Why didn't I, finally, just bail altogether, right there?

We were doing 'magic' folks... we were - I thought - a
synergistic bunch with a thrilling ability to complement one
another! We were talking to key people and asking them questions
they'd never been asked before, we were recording history, and
making it to a degree! It was Nirvana, while it was working,
when everything was in balance, before our organizational
dynamic was blithely trifled with by the Doctor. It was heaven.
We (I?) felt like we were _doing_ something!

If I said it once to Dr. Mortellaro I said it a thousand times
(because it came up a thousand times...!), "Jim, stop trying to
filter me, moderate me, edit me, lead me, channel me, direct me,
or control me." I was quite clear in that regard. There was no
need for it in the first place, and our association didn't start
with that understanding in the second. Still, I was senselessly
and needlessly moderated more on (and off) the "AlienViews"
board (a board where I was a principal!) than any other List,
blog, newsgroup, or bulletin_board with which I've been
associated. Real irony, all by itself, forgetting that it was he
demonstrating the need for moderation in numerous episodes of
the, in my opinion, thoughtless and insulting mal-intellectual
hip-shooting he practiced, clearly pointed out to him by other
group principals and myself. One such occurred when he was
admonished by Doctor Dave Jacobs on the AlienViews II internet
radio program taping for referring to Arabs as "rag-heads".

Dr. Jacobs may recall the episode, and good for him for calling
attention to it, spot on, and demonstrating ethical consistency
regardless whatever one may feel on the subject of Arabs. Dr.
Mortellaro, oddly, given his education and 'alleged' experience,
was provincial and naive with regard to this and many other
human relations subjects, in my opinion, and in the unsolicited
opinion of the other Group principals, also. As I recall, I
covered for him out of the reflex of my manipulated programming,
on that occasion, too! Another regret.

The preceding was just one public example of the verbal gaffs
that were uttered to List members and guests that they found
insensitive, insulting, angering, humiliating, and without
empathy, aspect, or intelligence. Numerous times I was required
to post, like I might have for a 'retarded' older brother, "what
the Doctor really meant was...", in an effort to pull his
thoughtless fat out of the resultant and frequent fire. I
carried him for months... in my opinion.

Moving on, Dr. Mortellaro, in the aggregate, contributed his
very 'dodgy' claims and the interest in him that they provoked,
only. Oh, plus one other thing.....

Dr. Mortellaro's not unpleasant baritone was the 'voice' of
AlienViews internet radio. Rationally, and as a sensible result
of his alleged experience, Letters, and 'personable' manner, he
was made the titular head, the honorary front man, of the now
defunct AlienViews Group. A tragic act, as it turned out! The
stipulation "titular" was altogether _lost_ on the good Doctor
(despite vociferous reminders by myself and others that this was
so!). It went _right_ to his head.

Dr. Mortellero, was not a leader by any means. As a senior
officer in military training schools where I trained whole
_corps_ of leaders, and taught the _basics_ of competent and
efficacious leadership... my opinion here might have some extra
weight. I know leaders or leadership and have many leaders as
friends. The doctor was no leader.

It is understatement to say that his behavior during the period
was the cause of _much_ consternation in the group. Moreover, it
destroyed our synergistic group dynamic. He saw himself as the
'star' of the show - we joked about it! Soon he was escalating
his completely imagined supervisory capacity, deciding choices,
formulating "secret" business plans, giving thoughtless
instructions, making pointless decisions, publishing futile
marching orders, and criticizing web site and show production
infrastructure like he knew what he was doing or talked about.

He, decidedly, absolutely, and assuredly, did not. Dr.
Mortellaro, though - one finds - was not one to let any lack of
competence stop him, or slow him down in any way.

I'd mentioned that he was the voice of AlienViews  and he was,
forgetting that he should have left it right there, and didn't.
All he was, patient reader, _was_ the voice, and an introductory
one, only, at that; it became clear. In as much as the entire
AlienView group was, as seen by the Doctor, a vehicle for his
own self-interest and self-promotion, it's ironic that he didn't
contribute anything to show research or even focus on the on-air
guest as would be expected, but rather used any conversational
opportunity to steer the conversation back on the subject of
himself, pointing out (embarrassingly, derailingly, and
boringly) where what was being talked about could be viewed as
how it applied to _him_ and _his_ experience... so as to remain
the center of attention he craved.

He didn't listen to the guests, at all, during the interview
(just awaited another opportunity to pontificate?) as was
evidenced by his frequently asking a question of the guest that
had just been asked and laboriously answered. He had no respect
for the guest outside the value of the guest as a mechanism for
his own self-promotion (as evidenced by him flushing the toilet
in his home 'studio' or playing with his dog, on the air. On one
occasion during a show that he had to do, on the road, he was
striking up conversations with passers-by on the street while
the guest was talking - if you can believe it!

Sincerely, most of Dr. Mortellaro must have ended up on the
cutting room floor. I have 26 hours of RealAudio files (that
will likely never see the light of day) where the good doctor
can be heard doing just what I've described! Astonishingly, I
thought it was eccentric and even endearing at the time (!),
when what it really was, in hindsight, was oblivious self-
interest, utter un-professionalism, and clueless incompetence -
in my considered opinion.

Towards the end of our association Dr. Mortellaro made it quite
clear that he was more willing to pursue his own agenda of
unstated self-involved goals and fail, rather than subordinate
himself - appropriately I add - to the stated, decidedly
loftier, less 'corporate', and more theme centered goals of the
group - what we'd gleefully started with and succeed.

I spoke up for an end to reflex and unsupported hatred of other
persons in the ufological community and a return to our balanced
earlier association, a retreat from the business oriented model
of Dr. Mortellaro's nearly hijacked AlienViews Group effort, and
a wider view of the group in general, requiring Dr. Mortellaro's
removal as even titular 'head'. Dr. Mortellaro, like any
emotional juvenile, requiring too much supervision, moderation,
direction, and external motivation for a man over 60, hit the
vaulted ceiling!

Frankly - by this time, he was no longer trusted to do the right
thing on-line and on the List, was incapable of responding to
constructive criticism, late for virtually every group meeting
he ever called, and could not consistently follow the path
agreed to in the group. He would dictate insentient policy,
legislate unthinking, unnecessary, and unenforceable rules,
proclaim silly, mawkish, and embarrassing "press releases" or
initiate senseless polls. I could easily have sent a note home
to his parents: "Jimmy has delusions of grandeur, and does not
work or play well with others."

I'd mentioned that the Doctor was incapable of accepting
criticism - positive _or_ negative. He "didn't understand",
didn't get it, and preferred to console himself with personal
fables that he was being "picked on", that he was being
persecuted by "enemies" that he thought had been his
"friends", that this writer was "incapable of taking orders
from a boss", and that he "_was_ AlienViews...".

These were all un-clever and convenient observations, given that
it was friendly criticism, he chose not to acknowledge it. I was
a career Army officer, well documented as to be able to take or
give 'competent' orders, and he was not, and had never been,
competent to be my "boss", nor had I ever signed on for same! He
never, even at the start, had earned that trust and confidence.
That he "was Alien Views..." just demonstrates how far off the
actual beam he was - hints at his unjustified, and suspicion
provoking, megalomania, in my opinion.

By July of 2003, the doctor was overdrawn at my idiosyncratic
bank. I'd had quite enough.

Moreover, in as much as the evolving details of Dr. Mortellaro's
aggregate abduction claims _seemed_  - in my opinion - to
actualize after the details of it had already surfaced elsewhere
in the community, that he was a coattail moocher and flagrant
appropriator of opportunities not his own from UFO UpDates
through Jeff Rense to WorldWideRenaissance and beyond. That no
hard-evidence has ever surfaced with regard to Doctor Mortellaro
that didn't have a fishy provenance existing anywhere, but with
something that he could have brought about on his own.

This includes groin injuries - soldiers shoot themselves in the
foot to go home - forged documents possibly indicating same,
possibly seeded car parts at the 'abduction site' to be found
later, a witness willing to sign an affidavit that the doctor
was sucked up into a mother-ship in a silent blue beam, the
guileless validation by abduction researchers impressed by the
wealth of evidence suggested that associates a lettered
professional person with law enforcement, police records, 911
calls, the interest of a prestigious New York medical community
performing a study of the abduction phenomenon. These are the
smoke and mirrors, that could be interpreted, of a potential
fraud!

Could it be argued that there is too much corroborating
evidence, and all of it too damned pat? In as much as the good
Doctor has made it clear beyond all doubt that he intended to
profit as a result of the prosecution of his claims (and
assuming fraud for the purposes of argument?), an ethical line,
if not a criminal one, could conceivably be breached... I wanted
no part of that.

Be that as it may, considering hindsight, singular provenance,
one man's observation of the Doctor in action, and his observed,
in my opinion, easy betrayal and crass and calculating
manipulations of his "friends", I found myself unwilling to keep
the faith that was required to continue to validate, or support,
his tangled claims. Doctor Mortellaro, a living imposition and
much like a human prion (in my opinion) - hijacking the
machinery of healthy cells adjacent to him into reproducing his
bile spewing, hate driven, and baldly self-involved DNA - is
not supported by me.

Why does Dr. Mortellaro need to be taken down on this issue, in
my opinion? Why can't we just live and let live? Let sleeping
dogs lie? Call it a wash?

Dr. Mortellaro positions himself to be a major player on the
Ufological scene, and my perception is that that positioning is
afforded only by a ham-handed duplicity, consciously or
unconsciously woven by a person educated in the art of putting
the 'right' spin on "the product for SALE", bluntly! Dr.
Mortellaro is that product, in my opinion.

Thinking he understood the target audience or customer base -
the principals of the ufological community and so then the
whole ufological community - he's packaged himself, gaudily, if
_not_ that successfully, as its newest poster_boy. The
impression that he tries to generate and convey is that he has
an earned Doctorate in the sciences, is the focus of
demonstrable occurrences of the highly strange, has the
respectful attention of world class abduction researchers, is in
regular contact with and frequently - and oh so 'bravely' -
struggles with aliens unquestionably evil in design, intent,
and orientation. Moreover - as long as it suits his ego-driven
purposes and self-involved agenda - he is a virtual fountain of
abduction empathy and doting compassion. The calm, smooth-
talking ufological father you never had, who has "been there",
and "done that" - a "heroic pinnacle" in our, mainstream
maligned, paranormal movement.....

Steaming monkey paffle, patient reader. I don't buy the smallest
part of it.

His doctorate has the narrow scope of a predatory 19th Century
"business major", with all the scorn, distrust, and provoked
disgust that can be heaped on that discounted and invalidated
ethic. Dangerous Provinciality has a name and it's name is
"business major". The Doctor's claim that he is the focus of
the highly strange, with all its attendant evidences, police
involvements, medical audit trails, sworn affidavits, and radio
appearances still has the provenance of that high strangeness
coming from himself, only, seemingly evolving and becoming more
detailed over time, and finally breaking the credulity of _this_
once close supporter!

The respectful attention of world class researchers is countered
by their innocent acceptance in taking the good doctor at his
word regarding his own testimony and recollections... given a
seeming mass of corroborating evidence actually too good to be
true, in my opinion. His brave struggles with "evil mantis-
beings" are, for my money, self-congratulatory celebrations of a
personality that's yet to advance much past the science fictions
of the 1950's, spun up to play in 2004! His empathy and
compassion - like the empathy and compassion of other right_wing
extremists - are mere glad-handing and soft-soaping,
ornamentations used to defray suspicion of his motives and give
the 'mark' the comfortable warm and fuzzies facilitating ease of
control, it seems to me. This man is no hero, in my estimation,
he's a dead-ended path, a needless ufological detour, or an
invisible hurdle cum snare on same. It is very unlikely that he
has "been there," and even more unlikely that he's "done
that..." That's my read, at any rate.....

Could I be wrong about Dr. Mortellaro? Of course! My opinion,
sir or madam, that a manipulative corporate 'turn_around guy'
with a nose for product enhancement and the minimal sense to
flesh out an audit trail, might be _just_ the person able to
convincingly fabricate a first rate hoax, shouldn't raise
_anyone's_ hackles - even the good doctor's! - _that_ much. What
does he expect? I'm just one opinion, after all. Mortellaro
might still be genuine. Water, by report, has been turned into
wine, at least once, in the last 2000 years! Anything is
possible, however unlikely, improbable, doubtful, implausible,
dubious, dodgy, or suspect.

UFOs _are_ real. Alien Abduction _is_ another un-admitted
reality. My confidence in the actuality of these things remains
unshaken. My faith - and faith was _required_ - in the good
doctor has suffered a decisive hull-breach; however, and it's
important to me to go on the public record, now, and make it
clear that _I_ - who once provided _complete_ support - shall no
longer be counted as one who believes Dr. Mortellaro, at all.

I decidedly, absolutely, and most definitely, do not. Please
allow this addition to the record, and I apologize for any
confusion I helped cause. Read on.


alienview.nul



EXPLORE "AlienViewGroup" at its HostPros URL.
http://www.alienview.net


JOHN FORD RESTORATION FUND __ John will be released eventually.
He'll need a tax free cash stake to get on his feet. Let's put
one together for him; the bigger it is __ the more attention
he gets. It could have been you. E_mail for detail.
$450.00 pledged __ $200.00 collected!

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite.
What others see from afar, I leave far behind me."
_ Giordano Bruno, scourged by the scabrously specious scurrilous.






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   Apr > Apr 3

                            James Oberg Interview

From: Norman
Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 19:02:35 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 08:48:14 -0500
Subject: James Oberg Interview


James Oberg Interview - Video File

Posted March 24, 2004 at the NIDS website - "What's New" section

James Oberg interview, with Natasha Stillwell on the Canadian
Discovery Channel's 'Daily Planet' in Toronto, about a mysterious
streak of light photographed in the sky of Mars

http://www.nidsci.org/whatsnew.html









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                        Another Metallic Sound On ISS

From: Norman
Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 20:03:19 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 08:50:44 -0500
Subject: Another Metallic Sound On ISS


"Metallic Sound Heard Again By Space Station Crew"

http://edition.cnn.com/2004/TECH/space/04/02/space.station.ap/index.html

Also, posted at several other websites.

What's causing this metallic sound? ET or ghosts?

---

Note: This is the weekend of "lost time" for all. Clock goes
forward 1 hour.








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                     Re: Galileo [Correction] - Friedman

From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul>
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 09:42:04 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 08:55:38 -0500
Subject: Re: Galileo [Correction] - Friedman


>From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 17:57:43 -0400
>Subject: Re: Galileo

>>From: Martin Shough <mshough.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 17:31:22 +0100
>>Subject: Re: Galileo

>>>From: Maurice Woolf <MauriceW.nul>
>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 15:45:23 +0200
>>>Subject: Galileo

>>>Hallo to you all,

>>>Galileo maintained the earth was not the center of all existence
>>>and was burnt at the stake for believing same. I have been
>>>following the List and I think UFOs can be debunked if anyone
>>>tried hard enough.

>>In the interests of historical accuracy, Galileo was not burned
>>at the stake.

This got garbled because I stupidly let the line length exceed
65 characters. Mea culpa, Errol

>In the interest of good sense and historical accuracy, a number
>of so-called skeptics have been trying extremely hard for

Missing line "many years"

>Note Phil Klass' 4 books and Don Menzel's 3.

>Remember the question isn't "What are UFOs?", but are any of the
>unexplained sightings - (1.5% of Blue Book Special Report 14's

This was "21.5%" not "1.5%"

>3201 sightings, could _not_ be explained completely separate from
>the 9.5% listed as Insufficient Information - inteligently
>controlled ET spacecraft? Note, too, that the probability that
>the true UNKNOWNS were just missed KNOWNS was less than 1% for
>starters.

>By the way do you have any evidence to support your
>proclamation? Or is it just wishful thinking because you don't
>want to admit you haven't done your homework?

Sorry about that.


Stan Friedman









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                      Re: Filers Files #15 - Dickenson

From: Ray Dickenson <editor.nul>
Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 14:59:06 +0100
Fwd Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 09:06:29 -0500
Subject: Re: Filers Files #15 - Dickenson


>From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 19:54:53 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
>Subject: Re: Filers Files #15 - Balaskas

>>From: George A. Filer <Majorstar.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 14:52:06 -0500
>>Subject: Filers Files #15

>>Methane Gas on Mars Indicates Life.

>Since we know for sure that there is at least one planet with
>life (Earth), there have been many violent meteor/comet impacts
>with the Earth in the past and recently published papers have
>shown that organisms in rocks can indeed survive high levels of
>radiation and the extremes temperatures of space, a simple and
>logical conclusion is that all ETs in our galaxy, if they do
>exist, originated on Earth!

Hello List,

New media hype & misinformation re "planetary life" calls for
check of real odds.

1) Origins - "metallicity" of stars increases towards galactic
centers (so more rocky planets) - so it's likeliest that
'seeding', 'colonization' or 'forced migration' radiates
outwards from center. Those stars are so much _older_ - see:

http://www.perceptions.couk.com/uef/setigift2.html#INTELLIGENCE

2) Mathematical probability of Earth being first to achieve life
(even in our Galaxy) is virtually zero (billions to one
against).

3) Life system - bacteria, RNA/DNA or video recorders - gets
itself established by being first to achieve critical mass.
Thereafter it _eats_ latecomers (even those more 'efficient' -
RNA/DNA could be bettered, so could've video-systems), and
then, as early Earth life did, it eats the evidence of those
contenders.

Even a mediumly efficient life-base will also eat invaders
(seeders) for same reason - unless incomers are so much more
efficient that they can prevail from (outnumbered) standing
start.

[E.g. a planet like Mars (which earlier was probably a moon of
Saturn or Jupiter see:

http://www.perceptions.couk.com/uef/mass.html#mars

is about equally likely to have independently evolved life
(seeded or not); and it's also 50/50 whether its bacteria /
life-base is more or less efficient than others.]

To sum up

From 1) it's likeliest that seeding, immigration or colonization
moves out from center of Galaxy, at differing speeds. Those stars
may be getting too old for some possible civilizations' needs.
See: http://www.perceptions.couk.com/uef/define.html

from 2) & 3) it's 50 /50 whether any planet - even in our own
Solar System - will have identical, or 'weaker', or violently
more efficient life-systems than our own.

Note: we're only considering efficiency of "bacteria" (and
equivalents) - so far.

Earth-chauvinism (&/or alarmism) - especially in media - stops
us seeing the Universe with clear eyes.


Cheers

Ray D

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Perceptions" http://www.perceptions.couk.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~







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                            ...Fill your Bucket!

From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul>
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 07:25:42 -0600
Fwd Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 13:38:44 -0500
Subject: ...Fill your Bucket!



...Fill your Bucket!

Come on by - to fill your bucket, and we'll give you much to
chew when we show you what's around to be assessed! At first a
little scary, when the ground begins to quake, but the shakedown
is deliverance to discover you've been blessed! You'll have what
keeps your button pushed - have everything you need, a place to
study facts you lack to bring you up to speed; a place to lay a
tired brow that's clean and smells just right! An engagement of
your faculties that's yours alone - no ~need~ to fight... It's
an unpolluted meadow, or a river rife with fish. It's finding
there are other ways to be successful - "rich." It's receiving
due respect from those you work to keep afloat. It's not
suffering their sneers, derision - or failing while they gloat!

Happy satisfaction (?) or despair in their distraction as they
milk your very ~glands~ for what they have. And you'll do
without a piss-break, so you won't have much to drink, and your
wounds will see no medicine or salve! While they short you on
the front end - your specific contract pay, they will short you
on the back end... to erode your health away! But fan detested
gonads (!), then, to sell their toxic *soap*, decrying sex
(which happens!) as the "wage of Satan's" joke. And them the
ones so teasing (!), as they rub it in your face! And them the
ones you're pleasing (!) when you give in to disgrace! It's the
reason sex is dirty - a forbidden price is high. If sex was
honored... natural (?) - the price goes down, is why!!!

Their tease regarding UFO's is wall to wall TV! They're in our
papers/magazines - displayed for you to see. Festooned with
woo-woo music, and a digitized effect, we're jerked beyond
credulity, so the facts will lose respect!!! The mainstream
keeps it's distance, and cool NASA stays aloof! They won't go
on the Jeff Rense Show! They won't ~discuss~ the truth! They're
not open and forthcoming, and it's said they might conspire with
the forces of *convenience* that may keep us from our heart's
desire!

...It could mean that ~you're~ autonomous, and too strong to be
assailed - on the lip of newer wonders that some *Starfolk*
might detail... It could simply ~mean~ there's starfolk, and a
lot of them out *there*! We discounted Drake's equation (...when
we could not take that number's dare!)! "Let sleeping dogs
alone," we whined... (but out of mean convenience!). Our lives
we've based on futures that exclude our craft and genius! We
make our strained assumptions putting castles in the air, and
deny the watching Starfolk that have ~always~ hovered there!
 From time gone unrecorded they have been in human skies. Have
they made their long recording of our litany of lies? They'll
play it for us soon, perhaps, then wait for our denial. When
crying's done we'll find, I'll bet, the climax clean clean and
final! The future that we *plan* is surly gone, I am assured,
but the future that replaces it is bigger, grander - ~pure~.

The future that's portended will be seen and not pretended, and
the satisfaction gained will awe inspire! We will live beyond
pretensions, and ignore our class distinctions as we build on
firmer ground than what's now known to be conspired! We will
build upon new ethics in a wealth of new ~eclectics~ that we
didn't know abundant... in our fog... and we'll find that our
behavior's more inclusive - it's our SAVIOR, while =E9litists see
their error in the past, and all along! C'mon up and fill your
bucket with the facts you haven't chewed yet, and don't worry
that it tastes a ~lot~ like crow - it may taste a little worse
before you finish what needs chewing... but then tasting, far,
far grander than you know!

alienview.nul

EXPLORE "AlienViewGroup" at its HostPros URL.
http://www.alienview.net


JOHN FORD RESTORATION FUND - John will be released eventually.
He'll need a tax free cash stake to get on his feet. Let's put
one together for him; the bigger it is - the more attention
he gets. It could have been you. E-mail for detail.
$450.00 pledged - $200.00 collected!

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite.
What others see from afar, I leave far behind me."
- Giordano Bruno, scourged by the scabrously specious scurrilous.








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   Apr > Apr 3

                 Re: Closing The Record On Mortellaro - Hall

From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 14:49:32 +0000
Fwd Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 13:42:04 -0500
Subject: Re: Closing The Record On Mortellaro - Hall


>From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 05:42:09 _0600
>Subject: Closing The Record On Mortellaro

>One Man's Opinion On The Mortellaro Affair

>The only thing that kept me going with regard to Dr. Mortellaro
>and his 'perceived abduction' for as long as I did was Dr.
>Mortellaro himself. I believed the "man." He was that sincerely
>convincing..... When his personal credibility finally
>evaporated; however, so did any faith in his awkward and
>unlikely tale.

>His story now, in retrospect and in the opinion of this writer,
>seems baldly contrived, patently juvenile and stealthily
>appropriated. I'm astonished I was ever taken-in. I'm more than
>a little ashamed, actually.

>In my defense (and to neutralize glowing recommendations I've
>written for him over the last couple of years, extant in
>cyberspace) the Doctor (?) was only ever given credence, by _me_
>at any rate, out of the idiosyncratic credit I feel he had
>painstakingly assembled with me for my ongoing, and too late
>recognized for what it was... advantage taking manipulation. I
>now believe I was well and truly duped. Such is the scope of
>this expressed opinion.

<snip>

Kudos to you, Sir, for your 'confession' and your intellectual
honesty.

I was once and truly duped by a slick con-man long ago, and ever
since have been keenly aware of how they operate and how to spot
them. A sometimes contributor to this List told me privately
that my BS detector obviously was finely tuned.

It is a nice, warm human tendency to want to believe people and
to give them the benefit of the doubt. But there are slickers
out there (all too many, unfortunately) who know this full well
and take advantage of it for their own ignoble and often twisted
purposes.


- Richard Couer de Leon (a.k.a., Dick Hall)










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                         Re: Filers Files #15 - Hall

From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 14:55:48 +0000
Fwd Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 13:44:12 -0500
Subject: Re: Filers Files #15 - Hall


>From: Ray Dickenson <editor.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul, edfile.nul
>Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 14:59:06 +0100
>Subject: Re: Filers Files #15

>>From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 19:54:53 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
>>Subject: Re: Filers Files #15 - Balaskas

>>>Methane Gas on Mars Indicates Life.

>>Since we know for sure that there is at least one planet with
>>life (Earth), there have been many violent meteor/comet impacts
>>with the Earth in the past and recently published papers have
>>shown that organisms in rocks can indeed survive high levels of
>>radiation and the extremes temperatures of space, a simple and
>>logical conclusion is that all ETs in our galaxy, if they do
>>exist, originated on Earth!

>New media hype & misinformation re "planetary life" calls for
>check of real odds.

>1) Origins - "metallicity" of stars increases towards galactic
>centers (so more rocky planets) - so it's likeliest that
>'seeding', 'colonization' or 'forced migration' radiates
>outwards from center. Those stars are so much _older_ - see:

>http://www.perceptions.couk.com/uef/setigift2.html#INTELLIGENCE

>2) Mathematical probability of Earth being first to achieve life
>(even in our Galaxy) is virtually zero (billions to one
>against).

>3) Life system - bacteria, RNA/DNA or video recorders - gets
>itself established by being first to achieve critical mass.
>Thereafter it _eats_ latecomers (even those more 'efficient' -
>RNA/DNA could be bettered, so could've video-systems), and
>then, as early Earth life did, it eats the evidence of those
>contenders.

>Even a mediumly efficient life-base will also eat invaders
>(seeders) for same reason - unless incomers are so much more
>efficient that they can prevail from (outnumbered) standing
>start.

>[E.g. a planet like Mars (which earlier was probably a moon of
>Saturn or Jupiter see:

>http://www.perceptions.couk.com/uef/mass.html#mars

>is about equally likely to have independently evolved life
>(seeded or not); and it's also 50/50 whether its bacteria /
>life-base is more or less efficient than others.]

>To sum up

>>From 1) it's likeliest that seeding, immigration or colonization
>moves out from center of Galaxy, at differing speeds. Those stars
>may be getting too old for some possible civilizations' needs.
>See: http://www.perceptions.couk.com/uef/define.html

>from 2) & 3) it's 50 /50 whether any planet - even in our own
>Solar System - will have identical, or 'weaker', or violently
>more efficient life-systems than our own.

>Note: we're only considering efficiency of "bacteria" (and
>equivalents) - so far.

>Earth-chauvinism (&/or alarmism) - especially in media - stops
>us seeing the Universe with clear eyes.


Ray,

Yes, but the counter-argument supplied by those who like to
twist science in order to prove what they prefer to believe is
this:  God can do anything She wants to do.


 - Dick









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   Apr > Apr 3

                             Burned At The Steak

From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 07:06:38 -0800
Fwd Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 13:48:42 -0500
Subject: Burned At The Steak


Hello all:

I think this merits a new subject line, the matter of
Galileo being "Burned At The Stake" [BATS].

First, thanks to all who pointed out that it was Giordano Bruno
who was BATS by the Church, not Galileo.

Second, I mean no offense to one religion over another. They
have roughly equal merits in my opinion.

What interests me is the Internet. Never before has it been so
easy to gauge the quantity and quality of information and jaw-
dropping misinformation, literally at ones fingertips! A simple
experiment with the Google search engine will illustrate.

Searching for the exact quote "burned at the stake" calls up
60,800 web pages in all sorts of contexts. "Burnt at the stake"
only brought in 111 pages so I stuck with "Burned" for
consistency, again = BATS.

In the counts below, +Galileo means Galileo was _required_.
Galileo means _disallowed_. Same goes for Bruno, watch those +
and - signs.

"Burned at the stake" [BATS] = 60,800
BATS + Bruno . . . . . . . . = 4,020
BATS + Galileo . . . . . . . = 3,050
BATS + Bruno - Galileo . . . = 2,410
BATS + Galileo - Bruno . . . =   976

Conclusion? There seem to be a lot of people who mistake Galileo
for Bruno when it comes to BATS. Forgivable I suppose, but
there's more ..

BATS +Christ -Galileo -Bruno     = 14,200
BATS +Mohammed -Galileo -Bruno   =    673
BATS +Buddha -Galileo -Bruno     =    666
BATS +Copernicus -Gal. -Bruno    =    261
BATS +Rael -Galileo -Bruno . .   =     54
BATS +"Billy Meier" -Gal. -Bruno =     17

I offer these figures without comment, anyone can check them.
Still there is more.....

I got a count of 60,800 for BATS alone, but properly spelled!
Next I tried "Burned at the Steak" as in porterhouse or sirloin,
and found 302 listings.

Most of those, about 60% were culinary puns dealing with sauces
etc. I hand counted up the first 40 pages.

The other roughly 40% were serious, but misspelled.

Searching for BATS (the "steak" variety) +Christ and disallowing
-Bruno and -Galileo brought up 30 sites!!

You can well imagine how dismal those pages are. Try it
yourselves. Misspell Stake as "Steak", require Christ, and
disallow both -Galileo and -Bruno. You'll see.

I would make the world's worst sociologist. But those interested
in such matters have a really, really great opportunity to
calibrate their theories about what people are willing to punch
into a keyboard, more or less anonymously, from the comfort of
their mansions, mobile homes and everything in between. The
numbers are large enough to do some statistics now.

The Internet made that possible and it still amazes me.


Best wishes

- Larry Hatch









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   Apr > Apr 3

              Re: Why I Support Alien Abduction Study - Freeman

From: Kelly Freeman <Khfflsciufo.nul>
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 10:16:18 EST
Fwd Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 13:50:15 -0500
Subject: Re: Why I Support Alien Abduction Study - Freeman


>From: Nick Pope <nick.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 19:56:00 +0100
>Subject: Re: Why I Support Alien Abduction Study

>>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 18:00:26 -0500
>>Subject: Re: Why I Support Alien Abduction Study

<snip>

>>My main 'worry' about such a study is that, being psychologists,
>>they will confine their study to the verbal testimony and ignore
>>physical effects/evidence.

>>(Consider, that John Mack has argued something like this: we
>>will never have convincing physical evidence.

>>The corollary to this is , why look?

>>I wouldn't believe in the abduction stuff either... without the
>>evidence provided by many pain vanilla sightings and also the
>>UFO sighting reports that are made by the abductees.

>>For example, would he take a Walton type case, analyze Walton
>>and ignore everything else?

<snip>

>There are three parts to the study. The first involves
>administering questionnaires that will provide data on various
>psychological factors that have been put forward as being
>relevant to abductions. The second involves testing for the
>higher levels of psychic ability often reported by abductees. In
>each of these work strands, data will also be collected from a
>control sample matched on such factors as age and gender. The
>third work strand involves undertaking detailed interviews with
>participants. This will present an opportunity for discussing
>any physical effects and evidence, although you're right that
>the focus will be on psychological factors, as is inevitable
>given that the study's being carried out by psychologists. But
>this is where the "everything else" that you mention in relation
>to a Walton type case could come out. If funding is secured for
>a follow-up study, it may be that the scope of the
>investigations can be widened.


Nick, Bruce and List,

I would have to agree with Bruce. An an experiencer of the
paranormal/UFO sightings/abduction attempts(at the very least)
for over 25 years, I am skeptical that these psychologists would
render an objective study unless they have done their homework
on the abduction/UFO phenomenon. If they conduct the study with
a preconceived notion that the physical evidence is paramount to
determining the validity of alien abductions, then their final
determination may depend on current orthodox psychological
dogma.

If the scope of the investigations are widened, then I hope they
would consider how many of these abductees have not only had
abductions, increased psychic abilities, etc., but also how many
have had seemingly unrelated, but possibly related, paranormal
experiences throughout their lives such as myself.


Kelly Freeman








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              Re: Why I Support Alien Abduction Study - Ledger

From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 11:48:27 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 13:55:52 -0500
Subject: Re: Why I Support Alien Abduction Study - Ledger


>From: John Harney <magonia.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 19:34:10 +0100
>Subject: Re: Why I Support Alien Abduction Study

>>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 18:00:26 -0500
>>Subject: Re: Why I Support Alien Abduction Study

>>>From: Nick Pope <nick.nul>
>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 23:39:09 +0100
>>>Subject: Why I Support Alien Abduction Study

>>>Over recent months I've posted a few times on the subject of the
>>>study into the alien abduction phenomenon being carried out by
>>>psychologists at Goldsmiths College, University of London.

>>>Given the fact that Professor Chris French (a confessed sceptic
>>>on the ETH) is undertaking this study, some people have expressed
>>>surprise that I've commended this project and actively encouraged
>>>abductees and experiencers to take part. I wanted to explain my
>>>thinking on this. There are three main reasons why I support this
>>>initiative.

>>>Firstly, whatever Chris French's personal views, he and his team
>>>are being scrupulous so far as methodology and protocols are
>>>concerned. He's consulted with parapsychologists, ufologists and
>>>experiencers. Witness confidentiality is paramount, and
>>>participants can use pseudonyms if they wish.

>>>Secondly, ufologists often complain that scientists don't take an
>>>interest in UFOs or alien abductions. I believe it would send the
>>>wrong message if ufologists complain about one of the rare
>>>occasions when the scientific community is taking an interest.
>>>This is, after all, proper science. Data collected from abductees
>>>will be compared with data from a control sample matched on such
>>>factors as gender and age. The intention is to publish the
>>>results in scientific journals.

>>My main 'worry' about such a study is that, being psychologists,
>>they will confine their study to the verbal testimony and ignore
>>physical effects/evidence.

>How interesting it is that any scientific projects which attempt to
>resolve any questions relevant to ufology always seem to generate
>great anxiety in certain quarters. Is it feared that the Goldsmiths
>College team will eventually arrive at the "wrong" answers to the UFO
>abduction enigma?

>Surely, if anything alleged to be physical evidence in connection
>with UFO abduction reports is presented to the psychologists, they
>are quite capable of submitting it to the appropriate experts for
>evaluation.


What experts?

How can there be experts in a phenomenon that has been
systematically denied by those timorous persons in the fields of
science that even begin to touch upon it? To even make the
statement is a conclusion in itself, meaning that it
[abductions] is a problem with the individual's mental health in
one form or another. Either it is real or it isn't. If it is
then the experts are on the other side. We have none.

Unlike religious dogma, your statement "Is it feared that the
Goldsmiths College team will eventually arrive at the "wrong"
answers to the UFO abduction enigma?" This could not be further
from the truth.

Those suffering the "abduction syndrome" if it can be called
that, desperately seek answers.

If this did turn out in the end to have some psyciatric source,
I'm sure those affected would welcome the news so that they
could then seek answers as to how to compabt it.

If you did any reading on the subject or examined a few cases
you would know that John. I for one applaud anyone or any
institution such as the Goldsmiths College team that does a
controlled study-as long as they don't go in like Condon with
their conclusions already drawn. Who is paying for their study
incidentally?


Don Ledger









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                       Re: Time Travel & UFOs - Hatch

From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 07:56:47 -0800
Fwd Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 16:14:57 -0500
Subject: Re: Time Travel & UFOs - Hatch


>From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 18:16:20 -0400
>Subject: Re: Time Travel & UFOs

>>From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 15:03:05 -0600
>>Subject: Re: Time Travel & UFOs

>>>From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 23:58:11 EST
>>>Subject: Time Travel & UFOs

>>>Why is it the more I study the subject of 'time' the more it
>>>looks like it doesn't exist?

<snip>


>What I have been saying for many years is that technological
progress comes from doing things differently in an unpredictable
way. The future (Technologically speaking) is not an
extrapolation of the past. A laser is not just a better
lightbulb. A nuclear rocket is not just a better chemical
rocket. New physics is required in both cases.


Hi Stan:

We probably disagree on some matters, but I like your last
statement, that a new physics is required.

If I take 1% of the cases in my database at random, and choose
to believe them, I have no alternative. New physics.

There is an upside to this of course. If somebody else can learn
new physics and technology, than we can too given time luck and
effort. (Lots of all three probably.)

I was once surprised to learn that superconductivity was
discovered nearly a century ago! What's your estimate of the
perceived probability of such a thing, lets say 10 years before
it the first discovery itself? My impression is that anyone then
suggesting such a thing would have been hooted out of science.

A totally non-resistive material? One which will carry an
electrical current endlessly? "Nature does not act like that,
never did and never will" .. until the ear1y 1900s.

For all I know, some unlikely layering of odd materials will
capture neutrinos like a brick wall can't. I'm no scientist, but
my perception is that our understanding of gravity is analogous
to electrical theory in (say) 1890.

They had Ohm's law and practical applications. Electric lights,
motors, street cars. They had the practical math all worked out
.. and _no idea_ what electricity actually was!

Like any physics student, I gratefully learned all the formulae
for force, acceleration (etc.) due to gravity. Somehow, I never
learned what gravity actually is, and nobody else seems to know
either. Does it bend light? Yes. Why? Ask your priest or rabbi.
Does it bend time itself? Yes.  Why? Ask the Devil's
grandmother.

I would hate to think that the basics are all worked out now,
and that the patent office is there to record improvements on
the Frisbee or the jet engine.  UFOs at least offer some hope
that there are really neat, powerful and momentous things to be
discovered in physics and other sciences; things that really
matter.


Best wishes

- Larry








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                            UFO 'Flight License'?

From: Terry Groff <terry.nul>
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 10:31:18 -0600
Fwd Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 16:17:15 -0500
Subject: UFO 'Flight License'?


I received an entry in my UFO Tools guestbook that merely
supplied a URL to this site:

http://www.ufoschoepfer.org/

The site is in German with a very bad English translation done
by Google.

The gist, I think, is that they are looking for people to
purchase UFO Flight licenses (5 ?) in order to further their
research. It appears purchasers will be allowed flights on their
crafts once they are completed.

A quote from the translation:

"They as flight person entitled will belong to the pioneers of
the UFO flying time age. A flight with the UFO is guaranteed to
each owner of a flight licence after construction conclusion."

I'm not sure what "5 ?" means (Deuschmarks?, Euros?)

Even if this is bogus the 'license' might make a nice novelty
gift. :-)


Terry








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                       Re: Star-Trek & UFOs? - Moroff


This post contained incorrect header. Attribution headers
suggested it had been posted by Daniel Moroff - when in fact it
was by Don Ledger.

The correct version is at:

http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2004/apr/m04-014.shtml






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              Re: Closing The Record On Mortellaro - McGonagle

From: Joe McGonagle <joe.mcgonagle.nul>
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 18:47:05 +0100
Fwd Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 16:21:28 -0500
Subject: Re: Closing The Record On Mortellaro - McGonagle


>From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 05:42:09 _0600
>Subject: Closing The Record On Mortellaro

>One Man's Opinion On The Mortellaro Affair

<snip>

Hello Alfred & List,

I suggest that you retain the text from this epic, Alfred. You
assuredly will be able to use most of it again when others are
decisively defrocked.


Regards,

Joe







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                         Re: Polar Orbiters? - Oberg

From: James Oberg <joberg.nul>
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 11:57:11 -0600
Fwd Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 16:26:54 -0500
Subject: Re: Polar Orbiters? - Oberg


>From: James Smith <zeus001002.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 16:57:05 -0500 (GMT-05:00)
>Subject: Re: Polar Orbiters?

Internet search engines are still pretty stupid, which is why
it's good for circles such as this to share questions, hints,
and answers.

The 1959 launches I listed recently included a few that
did not make it into orbit. Here's the authoritative list:

http://www.astronautix.com/craft/kh1.htm

As a teenage 'space nut' I well recall the discussions of
unidentified polar orbiting objects in that time period, and I
recall that they were subsequently suggested to have been some
of the lost KH-1 ('Discoverer') reentry capsules. These had
significant delta-V capability, and when fired off at improper
angles would enter orbits significantly different from the
mother ship -- but still 'polar'.

Another helpful place to go for statistics:

is http://www.planet4589.org/space/jsr/jsr.html

And I repeat my suggestion to explore the links from:

http://www.satellite.eu.org/satintro.html

None of these sources gives any clue on how somebody in 1960
could estimate an observed object weighed '15 tons' or anything
like that.

I know of no technique or process existing at that time that
would have allowed such an estimate to be made.

A guess, based on assumptions and on measured brightness, might
be the best one could expect.

There were orbiting objects of that size in that time period. As
far back as October 1957, the Sputnik-1 and -2 launches put
their main rocket stage into orbit, and these objects weighed
perhaps 20 tons. The Atlas ICBM main stage that went into orbit
in December 1958 ('Project Score') weighed about that much, too.


-- James Oberg








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                       Re: Filers Files #15 - Maccabee

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 13:06:59 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 16:32:16 -0500
Subject: Re: Filers Files #15 - Maccabee


>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 00:15:16 -0500
>Subject: Re: Filers Files #15

>>From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 19:54:53 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
>>Subject: Re: Filers Files #15 - Balaskas

<snip>

>>During this
>>period of time, the Earth has experienced many major impacts by
>>large asteroids and comets which sent rocks harbouring many of
>>these Earth organisms on voyages in all directions of space at
>>escape velocities (over 7 miles per second). Not only would many
>>of these rocks with living organisms from Earth have reached all
>>planets in our solar system but they could very well have seeded
>>millions of other worlds orbiting distant stars too.

>Worse than science fiction, scientific feces!: "... which sent
>rocks harboring many of these Earth organisms on voyages... many
>of these rocks have reached all planets in our solar
>sysytem....."

<snip>

>In fact, the only terrestrial materials that have ever been
>demonstrated to have been launched into space by the most
>gigantic of such cosmic impacts did not even reach parabolic or
>hyperbolic velocities and fell back to earth from their
>elliptical (and sub-elliptical) journies as tektites, which were
>so molten as to show no crystals and are so homogenous as to
>shown only schleiren flows due to areas of slightly differential
>silicate concentrations.

I, too, found this claim of material launched from earth into
space that would then reach Mars to be 'surprising' to say the
least.

Nick quotes 7 miles/second as the escape velocity from earth's
surface to break free of the earths "gravitational well".
However, there still must be enough more launch energy (kinetic
energy) for the launched material to climb "upward out of the
Sun's gravitational well" and travel out to the Martian orbit.

Generally speaking, for a piece of an outer planet to reach
earth is understandable, granted that a piece of a planet could
be launched by meteor collision with enough speed to break free
of the planet.

In this regard, I point out that it would take less launch speed
to break free of Mars (and no atmosphereic resistance?) than it
takes to break free of the earth (atmospheric resistance poses a
problem attaining the 7 mps and keeping that up through the
atmosphere). Hence I can understand "pieces of Mars" on earth.

Much more difficult is to imagine pieces of earth on Mars.

(Note: I could _barely_ imagine pieces of the Moon on Mars. At
least there is no lunar atmosphere and the moon and earth at the
distance of the moon have much lower gravity.)








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               Re: Caution Pravda 'Story'! UFO Fragments Yield

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 13:06:55 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2004 10:40:54 -0400
Subject: Re: Caution Pravda 'Story'! UFO Fragments Yield


>From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 12:19:12 +0200
>Subject: Re: Caution Pravda 'Story'! UFO Fragments Yield Sensational Results

>>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 18:00:18 -0500
>>Subject: Caution Pravda 'Story'! UFO Fragments Yield Sensational Results

>>>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 08:08:13 -0800
>>>Subject: Caution Pravda Story! UFO Fragments Yield Sensational Results

>>>UFO fragments yield sensational results

>>>An unidentified flying object has crashed in the Far East.
>>>Hundreds of people witnessed the event. The UFO crashed into the
>>>rocky mountains located in the town of Dalnegorsk.

>>This story has at least some basis in truth. I recall reading
>>about it in translated Russian papers shortly after it happened
>>(back in the days of glassnost and perestroika). Anyway, it
>>would appear that some strange material was found after
>>witnesses saw a ball of light (I don';t recall exactly) crash
>>into "hill 611" (named after its height... in meters)

>Perhaps there is some element of truth, but a good hoax always
>has that.

>I asked recently my friend Boris Shurinov, one ufologist to be
>trusted if there are any in Russia, what to think of these
>fantastic "revelations" of "Pravda".

>He told me "it's all crap!"

>To begin with, this web site has nothing to do with the
>newspaper "The Pravda", so its title alone creates al lot of
>confusion.

>Boris has fought courageously against many false stories from
>Russia and the people who have peddled them. So he has been
>bitterly attacked in turn. Logically. Let's see if this happens
>again, on this List.

I have met Shurinov.

I'm not "guaranteeing" that the "Hill 611" crash is a real UFO
or a real mystery. Perhaps hype built on a meteor crash.

But I do recall articles written about it in newpapers and
journals at the time and soon after it happened.  I don't think
Pravda mentioned it back in those days (nearly 20 years
ago).  Id have to dig through now ancient archives to find
the original stories,







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               Re: Closing The Record On Mortellaro - Lehmberg

From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul>
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 13:04:42 -0600
Fwd Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2004 10:42:23 -0400
Subject: Re: Closing The Record On Mortellaro - Lehmberg


>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 14:49:32 +0000
>Subject: Re: Closing The Record On Mortellaro

>>From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 05:42:09 _0600
>>Subject: Closing The Record On Mortellaro

>>One Man's Opinion On The Mortellaro Affair

<snip>

>Kudos to you, Sir, for your 'confession' and your intellectual
>honesty.

I'm humbled by your appreciation, Mr. Hall, sincerely.

>I was once and truly duped by a slick con-man long ago, and ever
>since have been keenly aware of how they operate and how to spot
>them. A sometimes contributor to this List told me privately
>that my BS detector obviously was finely tuned.

Our more transparently duplicitous Yorkshire lad Andy Roberts
recently communicated that I had none at all.  I'm astounded
that he could agree with that given that my filters and
detectors winnowed _him_ out so effortlessly. LOL!

>It is a nice, warm human tendency to want to believe people and
>to give them the benefit of the doubt. But there are slickers
>out there (all too many, unfortunately) who know this full well
>and take advantage of it for their own ignoble and often twisted
>purposes.


Jeez -- I wrote a cited paper on it, one of the papers most
frequently read here on UpDates... you'd think I hadn't read my
own paper.







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                Re: Closing The Record On Mortellaro - Clark

From: Jerome Clark <jkclark.nul>
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 13:24:38 -0600
Fwd Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2004 10:43:37 -0400
Subject: Re: Closing The Record On Mortellaro - Clark


>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 14:49:32 +0000
>Subject: Re: Closing The Record On Mortellaro

>>From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 05:42:09 _0600
>>Subject: Closing The Record On Mortellaro

>>The only thing that kept me going with regard to Dr. Mortellaro
>>and his 'perceived abduction' for as long as I did was Dr.
>>Mortellaro himself. I believed the "man." He was that sincerely
>>convincing..... When his personal credibility finally
>>evaporated; however, so did any faith in his awkward and
>>unlikely tale.

>>His story now, in retrospect and in the opinion of this writer,
>>seems baldly contrived, patently juvenile and stealthily
>>appropriated. I'm astonished I was ever taken-in. I'm more than
>>a little ashamed, actually.

>Kudos to you, Sir, for your 'confession' and your intellectual
>honesty.

>I was once and truly duped by a slick con-man long ago, and ever
>since have been keenly aware of how they operate and how to spot
>them. A sometimes contributor to this List told me privately
>that my BS detector obviously was finely tuned.

>It is a nice, warm human tendency to want to believe people and
>to give them the benefit of the doubt. But there are slickers
>out there (all too many, unfortunately) who know this full well
>and take advantage of it for their own ignoble and often twisted
>purposes.

If Dick's "slick con man" is who I think it is, I know whereof
he speaks. The guy bamboozled me, too - though, as it happened,
not my then-wife, who saw through him. Maybe the moral of that
story is to listen to your spouse.

Alfred, your honesty and willingness to admit error are entirely
commendable. Everyone of us can be wrong, and everyone of us is
wrong about something or other. The first step, when you learn
you've misjudged or been fooled, is to do as you have done:
bravely admit it. After that, we take the appropriate lessons to
heart and go on, sadder but wiser.


Jerry Clark








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                       Re: Filers Files #15 - Balaskas

From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul>
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 14:40:04 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
Fwd Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2004 11:09:17 -0400
Subject: Re: Filers Files #15 - Balaskas


>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 00:15:16 -0500
>Subject: Re: Filers Files #15

>>From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 19:54:53 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
>>Subject: Re: Filers Files #15 - Balaskas

<snip>

>>York University space scientist John Caldwell and his graduate
>>student Tatiana Ouvarova have made a proposal to use the Hubble
>>Space Telescope (HST) to search for sulphur dioxide (SO2) on
>>Mars (You may recall that Prof. Caldwell was the only researcher
>>to use the HST to study the chemical composition of the Moon -
>>something people considered impossible because the Moon was too
>>close and much too bright). If they do detect SO2 in the Martian
>>atmosphere, this would be proof of recent volcanic activity on
>>Mars and thus the most probable explanation for the source of
>>methane gas detected by CFH and ESA. Until this search for SO2
>>is made, no one will be able to say with certainy that the
>>methane discovered on Mars has a biological origin.

>>So, unless the the gyros on the soon to be retired HST suddenly
>>fail or it experiences other major technical problems and NASA
>>informs them that their search for SO2 cannot be done, we will
>>not have too long to wait before we can say with confidence
>>whether life has been discovered on Mars or not.

<snip>

>The finding of active volcanoes on Mars producing SO2 would in
>no way preclude methane produced by living organisms. Earth has
>plenty of active volcanoes producing SO2, but hang around a
>cattle feed lot or even around a mexican restaurant after
>someone has had his fill of frijoles (aka., beans) and you will
>detect plenty of methane production!

Hi Ray!

Although the discovery of methane in the atmopshere of Mars is
exciting because of its obvious implications, it is only evidence
of biological activity, not proof.

As I and others (including George Filer, Mac Tonnies, etc.) have
pointed out on the UFO UpDates List in the past, there has been
much more compelling evidence for life on Mars, including the
results of the 1976 Viking Mars lander search for life
experiment specifically designed for this purpose by Dr. Gilbert
Levin which, in light of what we now know about liquid water and
surface temperatures on Mars, can only be re-interpreted as
having a biological explanation.

Scientists too can become excited about certain very incredible
findings and prematurely announcing them at press conferences
before further much needed testing is done or independent
evalutions are made by other experts. The unprecedented news in
1996 by President Clinton that life was discovered on Mars is
one such example where nearly eight years later the scientific
jury is still out on this one. Maybe this is why other recent
and equally incredible findings (eg. the Russian absorption
spectrum results which identified chlorophyll based compounds on
Mars that suggest plant life and could explain those greenish
patches on the brownish Mars rocks Dr. Levin noticed on images
from later Mars missions before NASA had all their monitors
tinted red) have not made the news, yet.

Yesterday on our weekly Glendon College 'Cosmic Horizons' FM
radio talk show (which can also heard live around the world via
the Internet), we discussed how some planetary scientists here
in Toronto plan to independently search for methane on Mars when
their experiment flys on a future NASA Mars mission sometime in
the coming few years. Their equipment is so sensitive, that it
can detect a even very small traces of methane gas equivalent to
that produced by a couple of "farting cows" (their words)
anywhere on the surface of Mars.

If these other planetary scientists do identify sulphur dioxide
in the Martian atmosphere (not just sulphur in the soil), then
it would certainly weaken the case, but not disprove, that the
methane gas discovered on Mars was of biological origin.

<snip>

>As to the following statement of yours, Nick, it is unbecoming
>to you as a person with scientific training:

>>If life is detected on Mars, it will almostly certainly have
>>originated from Earth.

>There is not one stitch of evidence on which to base such a
>statement, you know it, and as a scientist (if that's what your
>education suggest you should be) you should be ashamed to make
>such a baseless statement.

If we are to be truly honest and scientific, we must base our
statements on the few facts we already know rather than on our
beliefs and reasonable assumptions alone.

Some of these facts, which I do not think anyone can argue with,
are:

1) that there is at least one world that we know of that
harbours a large and wide variety of life - our home planet,
Earth;

2) that this life has been around for a very long time;

3) that Earth, like our heavily cratered Moon, has been
bombarded by large asteroids and comets in the past;

4) that some organisms can survive in the hostile conditions of
space (eg. the bacteria found in the camera of Surveyor 3 that
soft landed on the Moon in 1967, pieces of which were brought
back to earth by the Apollo 12 astronauts in 1969; the mold that
was growing on the outside windows of the Russian MIR space
station; etc.) for long periods of time and;

5) that although it is seemly easily for Nature to have done it,
the fact that scientists working in the top laboratories under
ideal conditions have failed to create even the simplest forms
of life suggests to me that all this is very compelling evidence
that if life is discovered on Mars or some world orbiting Alpha
Centauri or other star in our region of the Milky Way galaxy,
this ET life orginated here on Earth.

There is nothing to be ashamed of my statement when it is based
on these facts (many others too which I have refrained from
mentioning in order to keep my reply short).

I do not consider this as my final word on this subject and I do
welcome further comments or hearing of any different beliefs you
or others on the UFO UpDates list would care to share.


Nick Balaskas








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                     St Paul, Minnesota Sighting 04-01-4

From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO <hbccufo.nul>
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 12:07:07 -0800
Fwd Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2004 11:16:26 -0400
Subject: St Paul, Minnesota Sighting 04-01-4


The witness report below, refers to the sighting which took
place on March 31, 2004 and the witnesses to that case had taken
a number of photos of what they saw. Also a link to the March
31, 2004 sighting is included below.

---

St. Paul, Minnesota

Date: April 1, 2004
Time: 8:30 p.m.

My wife and I saw the exact same thing over downtown St Paul
last night heading south around 8:30 PM. We believe it was a
flock of geese flying at a high elevation that were catching the
last rays of sunlight.

Additional Information Below:

We live in a high rise in downtown St Paul, Minnesota, so I
believe we have a different vantage point from which to view the
phenomena than someone on the ground would have. At
approximately 8:30 PM on Thursday we went out on our balcony to
have a cigarette. The sun had set and it was fairly dark.

My wife noticed the flying "V" formation heading due south. The
sight was identical to the picture you posted on Rense.com. or
here at:

http://www.hbccufo.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=1150

She pointed it out to me and we stared at it. Our initial
thought was that it was a UFO. But as we observed for about
three minutes we noticed that the formation metamorphised into a
sloppy looking "W". Then we saw a piece of it break off and go
to the other side forming a lopsided "V" formation again. There
was a cloud formation to the southeast that was slightly
illuminated on the top as well. Both the formation and the cloud
to the southeast faded out simultaneously.

There is a large Canadian goose population around here.
Typically we can see flocks flying south near the end of the
evening. Based on our observation we thought that the "V" was a
flock of geese flying at a higher than normal elevation and they
were catching the last rays of light on their underbellies.

Again, we could be wrong. I have seen unexplained sights in the
sky before but this was the first time I had ever seen an
illuminated flying "V". In this particular instance though, I
think that the sight we saw probably had a natural explanation.

It may very well be that what you observed portrayed different
characteristics and was not the same phenomenon we observed. I
wish you luck in solving the mystery.

---

Thank you to the witness for the report.

Brian Vike
Director HBCC UFO Research
Home - Phone 250 845 2189
email: hbccufo.nul
Website: http://www.hbccufo.com








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                        Re: Filers Files #15 - Shell

From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 13:14:29 -0800
Fwd Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2004 11:17:45 -0400
Subject: Re: Filers Files #15 - Shell


>From: Ray Dickenson <editor.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul, edfile.nul
>Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 14:59:06 +0100
>Subject: Re: Filers Files #15

>2) Mathematical probability of Earth being first to achieve life
>(even in our Galaxy) is virtually zero (billions to one against).

I'm not sure how this could be calculated. Until we know for
certain that there is life elsewhere, the mathematical
probability that life originated on Earth is one hundred
percent. Not even close to zero. Even if we find life on another
planet somewhere, there's a possibility that it might have come
from Earth a few billion years ago as a result of an asteroid
impact or something. I don't know how you'd figure that, either.

Probabilities are funny. While the odds against landing a coin
perfectly on edge (or that a self-replicating bit of DNA might
create itself) may be a billion to one, it doesn't necessarily
require a billion coin tosses to do it. You might do it on the
second toss. Beginner's luck! The odds are the same whether it's
the second toss or the 999 hundred millionth.








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              Re: Why I Support Alien Abduction Study - Bright

From: Dan Bright <ufo.nul>
Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 22:15:00 +0100
Fwd Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2004 11:19:39 -0400
Subject: Re: Why I Support Alien Abduction Study - Bright


Hello Listers,

In regard to Professor Chris French and the Experiencer study,
some of you might find the following of interest:

Source: Goldlink, The Magazine Of The Goldsmiths Society" [Alumni]

http://www.goldsmiths.ac.uk/alumni/goldlink/almag18/weird.html

Issue 18, January 2002

"The psychological explanations behind paranormal experiences
You begin to emerge from sleep and realise you are unable to
move. There's a sense of evil in the room. A figure bends over
you. An alien abduction? The first signs of madness? Goldsmiths'
psychologist, Dr Chris French, reassures us that it's sleep
paralysis, a little-researched but normal psychological state
where people find themselves unable to move as they drift into
or emerge from sleep."

The Anomalistic Psychology Research Unit, at Goldsmiths, states
that its research includes:

"Non-paranormal accounts for a range of ostensibly paranormal
experiences including:

ESP, PK, Psychic readings, Psychic healing, Alternative and
complementary medicine, Out-of-body and near-death experiences
Astrology and other divinatory techniques, Reincarnation, *UFOs
and alien abduction*, Ghosts and poltergests, Crystal power
Dowsing"

http://www.goldsmiths.ac.uk/apru/hitech/faq/faq.htm

You may also be interested to know that Professor Chris French
and Dr. Julia Nunn have taken over the editorial role for the
UK's only regular magazine to "take a skeptical look at
pseudoscience and claims of the paranormal":

http://www.skeptic.org.uk

I personally welcome any study which takes a rigorous and
scientific approach to questions of UFO and the 'paranormal'.

It seems to me that provided that the methodology and data is
clearly stated, rigorously adhered to and published in full,
then the obvious preconceptions that Professor French brings to
the study should not be considered to be prejudicial to the data
obtained. However, naturally the conclusions drawn by Professor
French from this data have to be considered in the light of his
stated preconception vis-a-vis the phenomenon under
consideration.

The APRU of which Professor French is head hypothesises that
"UFOs and alien abduction" can be explained in "Non-paranormal"
terms. The burden is now on Prof. French et al to prove that
hypothesis (in this study, the alien abduction aspect of it). We
know what they're setting out to do (and whether we agree with
it or not, they adopt a perfectly legitimate stance IMO, as long
as it's made explicit); it'll be intriguing to see whether they
can come up with the goods!


Best to all,

Dan Bright
www.UFOresearch.org








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                       Re: Time Travel & UFOs - Shell

From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 13:23:24 -0800
Fwd Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2004 11:20:35 -0400
Subject: Re: Time Travel & UFOs - Shell


>From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 18:16:20 -0400
>Subject: Re: Time Travel & UFOs

>What I have been saying for many years is that technological
>progress comes from doing things differently in an unpredictable
>way. The future (Technologically speaking) is not an
>extrapolation of the past. A laser is not just a better
>lightbulb. A nuclear rocket is not just a better chemical
>rocket. New physics is required in both cases.

Agreed. And slightly off the subject, I personally find it
interesting how often these "leaps" from one stage to another
originate in dreams. Einstein and Pauli are a couple of examples
that come immediately to mind, but I could probably think of
more if I slept on it.

Long ago, when I was a wee lad, I had a dream about what gravity
is all about. A complete picture about how gravity manifests
itself in spacetime. But it was just pictures. I didn't then,
and I don't know now, how to translate the pictures into a
mathematical formula, or if it's even possible. Oh, well.

Yes, not too far down the road, someone is going to come up with
something new. Don't know what. Don't know when. But it'll
probably be pretty cool.








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                Re: Closing The Record On Mortellaro - Clark

From: Jerome Clark <jkclark.nul>
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 15:44:59 -0600
Fwd Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2004 11:22:16 -0400
Subject: Re: Closing The Record On Mortellaro - Clark


>From: Joe McGonagle <joe.mcgonagle.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 18:47:05 +0100
>Subject: Re: Closing The Record On Mortellaro

>>From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 05:42:09 _0600
>>Subject: Closing The Record On Mortellaro


>I suggest that you retain the text from this epic, Alfred. You
>assuredly will be able to use most of it again when others are
>decisively defrocked.

Meaning whom? Let's have some names, please, or this is just yet
more statement of personal faith. Either that, or just a cheap
insult.

Even Blue Book, which no one has accused of being UFO-friendly,
acknowledged that only a tiny percentage of UFO-related claims
prove to be hoaxes. A remark such as yours sounds like, oh,
let's say 1948, when scoffers could still argue with a straight
face that flying-disc reports existed in good part because
people are liars. Subsequent developments taught everyone, even
debunkers, that things are not nearly so simple.

A more realistic appraisal, I think, is that we're dealing with
the sort of episode that all of us, ufologists and nonufologists
alike, have experienced in life: someone we trusted turns out to
have been untrustworthy. It's not UFOs, even if (I gather) you
want to think so; it's just people, in any human context, being
people. Nothing more, nothing less. Let's just hope that when
you're proved wrong, you have Alfred's courage to admit it
forthrightly.


Jerry Clark








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               Re: Why I Support Alien Abduction Study - Pope

From: Nick Pope <nick.nul>
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 22:46:42 +0100
Fwd Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2004 11:23:55 -0400
Subject: Re: Why I Support Alien Abduction Study - Pope


>From: Kelly Freeman <Khfflsciufo.nul>
>Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 10:16:18 EST
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Subject: Re: Why I Support Alien Abduction Study

>>From: Nick Pope <nick.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 19:56:00 +0100
>>Subject: Re: Why I Support Alien Abduction Study

>>>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 18:00:26 -0500
>>>Subject: Re: Why I Support Alien Abduction Study

<snip>

>I would have to agree with Bruce. An an experiencer of the
>paranormal/UFO sightings/abduction attempts(at the very least)
>for over 25 years, I am skeptical that these psychologists would
>render an objective study unless they have done their homework
>on the abduction/UFO phenomenon. If they conduct the study with
>a preconceived notion that the physical evidence is paramount to
>determining the validity of alien abductions, then their final
>determination may depend on current orthodox psychological
>dogma.

>If the scope of the investigations are widened, then I hope they
>would consider how many of these abductees have not only had
>abductions, increased psychic abilities, etc., but also how many
>have had seemingly unrelated, but possibly related, paranormal
>experiences throughout their lives such as myself.


Kelly,

While there are significant areas of disagreement between Chris
French and I on these subjects, he's one of the few UK
scientists to have done any research into the alien abduction
mystery. He's said that because he's a psychologist it's natural
for him to think in terms of possible psychological
explanations. But so far as the study's concerned, I'm sure
he'll go where the data take him.

At the third stage of the current study (i.e. the interview)
participants will have the opportunity to discuss anything they
feel is relevant, including other paranormal experiences.

I'll try to post UFO Magazine's interview with Chris French
later today.


Best wishes,

Nick Pope








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                       Re: Filers Files #15 - Balaskas

From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul>
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 17:13:58 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
Fwd Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2004 11:25:10 -0400
Subject: Re: Filers Files #15 - Balaskas


>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 13:06:59 -0500
>Subject: Re: Filers Files #15

>>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 00:15:16 -0500
>>Subject: Re: Filers Files #15

<snip>

>>Worse than science fiction, scientific feces!: "... which sent
>>rocks harboring many of these Earth organisms on voyages... many
>>of these rocks have reached all planets in our solar
>>sysytem....."

><snip>

>>In fact, the only terrestrial materials that have ever been
>>demonstrated to have been launched into space by the most
>>gigantic of such cosmic impacts did not even reach parabolic or
>>hyperbolic velocities and fell back to earth from their
>>elliptical (and sub-elliptical) journies as tektites, which were
>>so molten as to show no crystals and are so homogenous as to
>>shown only schleiren flows due to areas of slightly differential
>>silicate concentrations.

>I, too, found this claim of material launched from earth into
>space that would then reach Mars to be 'surprising' to say the
>least.

>Nick quotes 7 miles/second as the escape velocity from earth's
>surface to break free of the earths "gravitational well".
>However, there still must be enough more launch energy (kinetic
>energy) for the launched material to climb "upward out of the
>Sun's gravitational well" and travel out to the Martian orbit.

>Generally speaking, for a piece of an outer planet to reach
>earth is understandable, granted that a piece of a planet could
>be launched by meteor collision with enough speed to break free
>of the planet.

>In this regard, I point out that it would take less launch speed
>to break free of Mars (and no atmosphereic resistance?) than it
>takes to break free of the earth (atmospheric resistance poses a
>problem attaining the 7 mps and keeping that up through the
>atmosphere). Hence I can understand "pieces of Mars" on earth.

>Much more difficult is to imagine pieces of earth on Mars.

>(Note: I could _barely_ imagine pieces of the Moon on Mars. At
>least there is no lunar atmosphere and the moon and earth at the
>distance of the moon have much lower gravity.)

Hi Bruce!

In addition to the many Moon and Mars meteorites that have been
collected and identified here on the surface of the Earth, there
are conservative estimates that many thousands of tons of Lunar
and Martian rocks remain to be discovered on the surface of the
Earth. I agree this is very surprising indeed, but it is also
very probable scientifically too.

Yes, the Sun's gravity does attract all material in the solar
system towards it but depending on the size of the material (for
example, very small particles, with or without organisms, will
eventually be blown right out of our solar system by the
stronger effects of solar radiation pressure, even if they have
radial velocities much less than a few miles per second) and
their trajectories (for example, many comets have fallen towards
the Sun only to swing around it and head out into deep space in
open curve orbits never to return - possibly even picking up
some solar system debris that originated on Earth for the ride!)
it is not only possible for rocks carrying organisms from Earth
to Mars but if DNA based life is ever found there, it will very
likely have been seeded from Earth!

As for Earth seeding life on worlds orbiting stars in our
galaxy, just read this amazing new scientific paper which was
presented at our 'Astronomy Journal Club' meeting recently by
Prof. Michael De Robertis. Although it does not specifically
mention Earth as the source of this interstellar panspermia,
since it is the only place we know for sure that has life, it
cannot be excluded!

A Mechanism For Interstellar Panspermia
Napier, W. M. 2004, MNRAS, 348, 46

http://aries.phys.yorku.ca/~rfinger/jc040304.pdf

For those who believe to have made contact with ETs that arrived
here from other worlds, my theory would certainly explain why
all these aliens have anthropomorphic features which, according
to Darwinian biological thinking, would not be the case for life
that evolved independently on some planet other than Earth
(unless, of course, these ETs are like God who created us in
their image sometime in the distant past - but we all know how
such "religious" ideas can never to be taken seriously).  ;o)


Nick Balaskas








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               Re: Closing The Record On Mortellaro - Lehmberg

From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul>
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 16:26:47 -0600
Fwd Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2004 11:29:54 -0400
Subject: Re: Closing The Record On Mortellaro - Lehmberg


>From: Joe McGonagle <joe.mcgonagle.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 18:47:05 +0100
>Subject: Re: Closing The Record On Mortellaro

>>From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 05:42:09 _0600
>>Subject: Closing The Record On Mortellaro

>>One Man's Opinion On The Mortellaro Affair

><snip>

>I suggest that you retain the text from this epic, Alfred. You
>assuredly will be able to use most of it again when others are
>decisively defrocked.

Thing is? They're not _all_ defrock-able as I suspect you
believe is the case, Sir, so I'm not worried, overmuch, that it
will be getting used with any degree of frequency. And on the
subject of those remaining decidedly non-defrocked?

John Velez.....

I've done John a huge disservice, contributed to his turmoil and
travail, treated him - without any justification as it turned
out - as an enemy, and likely contributed (minimally?) to his
decision, directly or indirectly, to leave a field that is much
better for him having been involved with it, than not! Yea and
verily!

When I returned to UpDates after my senseless, stillborn, and
insentient romp with Mortellaro, I was welcomed back by John
(and Errol) with such warm collegiality that it was truly
astonishing! I'm not a major player in this 'thing' we're in, by
any means, so there was nothing to be gained by bringing me back
on board - nothing at all. But he/they did, with openness and
selfless encouragement. I was moved to tears.....

I want to apologize, John, for any inconvenience I may have
caused you, recant every cross word that I, EVER, wrote to you,
and state publicly that anyone trash talking John Velez in my
presence does so at their literary peril.

John? I'm sorry. Truly and sincerely, I'm sorry. Recharge and
come back, soon. I'm just keeping your spot warm for you.


alienview.nul

EXPLORE "AlienViewGroup" at its HostPros URL.
http://www.alienview.net


JOHN FORD RESTORATION FUND -- John will be released eventually.
He'll need a tax free cash stake to get on his feet. Let's put
one together for him; the bigger it is -- the more attention
he gets. It could have been you. E-mail for detail.
$450.00 pledged -- $200.00 collected!

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite.
What others see from afar, I leave far behind me."
- Giordano Bruno, scourged by the scabrously specious scurrilous.








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                Re: Radio Search For ET Draws A Blank - Pope

From: Nick Pope <nick.nul>
Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2004 00:20:59 +0100
Fwd Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2004 11:31:27 -0400
Subject: Re: Radio Search For ET Draws A Blank - Pope


>From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 19:12:18 -0400
>Subject: Re: Radio Search For ET Draws A Blank

>>From: Nick Pope <nick.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 19:05:08 +0100
>>Subject: Re: Radio Search For ET Draws A Blank

<snip>

>>Notwithstanding the above, my personal view is that SETI is
>>worth trying. I look forward to debating this with Stan in the
>>margins of the X-Conference.

>Nick I invite you and others on the is List to read my Challenge
>To Seti Specialists, on my website:

>http://www.v-j-enterprises.com/sfpage.html

>I agree that there is benefit to people who are working on radio
>telescope SETI, but can't find a good excuse if one is truly
>interested in locating ET intelligence. Theirs is a search for
>radio signals.. having not the slightest evidence that any are
>out there to be detected.

Stan,

I'm not sure if I got to the challenge, but I've cut and pasted
the quote below from your website:


"The cult of S.E.T.I. (Silly Effort To Investigate) with its
crazy notions that nobody would travel -- but that aliens, stuck
at the level of radio, are trying to attract our attention --
 mocks the notion of flying saucers, not by dealing with the
evidence, but by proclamations about the ABSENCE of evidence.
This ignores science."


Why are attempts to communicate by radio incompatible with
flying saucers? Can't we have both? I'm wary of making any
assumptions about hypothetical extraterrestrial civilisations,
but I'd venture to suggest that they'd do the easy and cheap
things before the difficult and more expensive ones.

The key factor, perhaps, is L, in the Drake Equation: the length
of time that a civilisation remains detectable. It's possible
that a vast number of civilisations reach the level of
technology where they send messages, but cease to exist as a
civilisation (nuclear annihilation, asteroid strike, etc) before
they develop more advanced technology.

Those civilisations that do survive for a long time and develop
viable interstellar travel (assuming this is possible) may well
- following the logic in my third paragraph - have gone through
a phase where they transmitted radio messages. We may be able to
detect such messages. Either they're there or they aren't.
Irrespective of one's views on UFOs, isn't it worth looking?

In terms of studying the data, we can only consider the actions
of one civilisation, i.e. ours. We've transmitted a radio
message with information about ourselves (Arecibo, 1974) and
we've also built spacecraft that are on interstellar missions
(Pioneer 10 and 11; Voyager 1 and 2).

My previous posting suggested that the 1974 Arecibo message
should be credited to Carl Sagan and Frank Drake. When I
checked, I found that while they were largely responsible for
the content, the idea to send a message was first suggested by
Drake's administrative assistant, Jane Allen.

I'm going to finish this post with a quote from Frank Drake,
from the preface to his book Is Anyone Out There?

"As a scientist, I'm driven by curiosity, of course. I want to
know what's out there. But as a human being, I persevere in this
pursuit because SETI promises answers to our most profound
questions about who we are and where we stand in the universe.
SETI is at once the most technical of scientific subjects, and
also the most human."


Best wishes,

Nick Pope








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                       Re: Star-Trek & UFOs? - Ledger

From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 19:27:28 -0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2004 11:41:30 -0400
Subject: Re: Star-Trek & UFOs? - Ledger


>From: James Oberg <joberg.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 09:59:32 -0600
>Subject: Re: Star-Trek & UFOs?

<snip>

>'Star Trek' first appeared on TV in the fall of 1966, but
>exact dates of exact episodes should be available in published
>'concordances' in any good bookstories 'SF' section.

>The issue of an impact of popular culture on UFO-related
>memories is a good research theme but very difficult to prove.
>It's been claimed that the 'Outer Limits' episode, the 'Bellero
>Shield', which aired the Friday before the Hills' first
>regression session with Dr. Simon, has an alien whose wraparound
>eyes (unusual for abductee reports to that time) may have
>influenced Betty's description. There is no evidence she saw the
>show -- nor can we expect to ever find any -- but even a glance at
>a TV promo may have had an effect.

>As for other abductee descriptions, the first UFO abduction on
>television that I recall is a 1961 episode of the Twilight Zone
>with Andy Devine as the hapless victim. The aliens were short,
>hairless, had holes for ears, no noses, and large slanting
>almond-shaped eyes. Such a description was rare prior to the
>broadcast, but became more typical in later years -- although
>cause-and-effect is probably utterly unprovable.


Hi Jim,

The problem being of course, from where did the script writer of
the Twilight Zone piece come up with the idea? Was it, pure
imagination, some vague disturbing memory perhaps or his/her own
full blown episode? But as you say, cause and effect. How do we
prove it? I suppose that some enterprising soul could track down
the writer and ask.

Don Ledger








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             Re: UFO Magazine Folds After Editor's Death - Hale

From: Roy Hale <roy.nul>
Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2004 01:44:18 +0100
Fwd Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2004 12:01:01 -0400
Subject: Re: UFO Magazine Folds After Editor's Death - Hale


>From: Roy Hale <roy.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>R
>Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 16:29:14 +0100
>Subject: Re: UFO Magazine Folds After Editor's Death

>Joe,

>Below are my questions to you.

>In the 50 years of FSR being published, had you ever thought of
>promoting it apart from this year?

>Have you ever agreed with the views of FSR, laid down in stone
>by G Creighton?

>If yes, I understand you are a sceptic, does this mean you are
>changing your presently held views on UFOs and the reality of
>Humanoids visiting this planet via craft, documented by FSR over
>the last 50 years?

>How many sceptic writers has FSR had writing for it in the last
>50 years?

>How many UK sceptics have promoted FSR in the last 50 years?

>Should I feel at odds with a sceptic who wishes to promote the
>UKs most documented Humanoid Contact magazine?


Hi,

I take it Mr McGonagle is still a subscriber to UFO UpDates?

Would he care to answer the above questions?


Roy







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                      Re: UFO 'Flight License'? - McCoy

From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy.nul>
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 20:30:54 -0800
Fwd Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2004 12:10:43 -0400
Subject: Re: UFO 'Flight License'? - McCoy


>From: Terry Groff <terry.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 10:31:18 -0600
>Subject: UFO 'Flight License'?

>I received an entry in my UFO Tools guestbook that merely
>supplied a URL to this site:

>http://www.ufoschoepfer.org/

>The site is in German with a very bad English translation done
>by Google.

>The gist, I think, is that they are looking for people to
>purchase UFO Flight licenses (5 ?) in order to further their
>research. It appears purchasers will be allowed flights on their
>crafts once they are completed.

>A quote from the translation:

>"They as flight person entitled will belong to the pioneers of
>the UFO flying time age. A flight with the UFO is guaranteed to
>each owner of a flight licence after construction conclusion."

>I'm not sure what "5 ?" means (Deuschmarks?, Euros?)

>Even if this is bogus the 'license' might make a nice novelty
>gift. :-)

Hello Terry

My Pilot's license says: Commerial Pilot,Single and Multi-engine
land - I regret not getting my Seaplane rating - or Helicopter.

Let's see... would the UFO license require a type rating? Or a
mere category, like UFO, single transwarp, or UFO, daylight
only, or UFO, night IFR, cloaking device?


GT McCoy









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              Another Sonora California Encounter & Scoop Mark

From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO <hbccufo.nul>
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 21:55:34 -0800
Fwd Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2004 12:18:21 -0400
Subject: Another Sonora California Encounter & Scoop Mark



Hi List

I posted a report earlier about a sighting that just took place
in Sonora, California. What I didn't realize is that the man who
reported the sighting - his brother - also had another close
encounter and received more marks on his body. The new photos
can be viewed, at the top of the page, at:

http://www.hbccufo.com/index.php

Sonora, California - Another Encounter - Scoop Mark - Photos

HBCC UFO Research reported on a report of a gentleman who
contacted me about a scoop mark and terrible bruising he
discovered on his body on March 25, 2004 Time: Approx: 9:00 p.m.
(Report & Photos can be found at:

http://www.hbccufo.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=1145&mode=ℴ=0&thol
d=0

Pictures were sent to show what had taken place. Today I
received a new set of photos and short report informing me that
the fellow had another encounter. Again photos were taken which
shows a mark or scar behind the man's ear. Also more marks have
showed up on his back.

One day later after the incident with the marks on the man's
body another sighting of an object was witnessed on April 3,
2004 in the same area. Report is below:

Sonora, California

Date: April 3, 2004
Time: 7:15 pm.

Number of witnesses: 1
Number of objects: 1
Shape of objects: Large Bluish White Light
Full Description of event/sighting:

I was facing east, the full moon was above and to my right. From
my left, overhead, a large bluish-white light was passing over
me. It was beautiful! It moved rather sedately, and slowly
seemed to rock to the left and right as it flew over. It passed
right in front of the full moon and kept going towards the
north. Object was in sight for over three minutes. Other
aircraft (definitely planes with FAA mandated blinking lights)
were flying in the area just east of the object. They definitely
were higher in the air than the object. It seemed no more than
two football fields-length from me. The light was very, very
large. It looked to be dime- sized. I can't imagine how big it
would have been if it had been closer!


Dear Brian,

I just sent a UFO report to your website. It happened about an
hour ago.

Photos of the marks on the man's body can be found at:

Also, last night my brother had new marks on his back. Pictures
attached, as well as a mark or scar behind his left ear. He has
NO memory of getting them. No nausea, no pain, he was looking
in the mirror when he noticed them. They're are more on his
back now. If you compare the pictures I sent you before, you
will see the difference. I don't know why they would focus on
my brother's spine, but he was in a motor bike accident when he
was sixteen. He is now 22 this month. He swerved to avoid a
dog and hit a tree. He wasn't wearing his helmet and ended up
in a coma for two months. He has mobility in his left leg, but
not much control over it. His left hand still spasms. He had
nerve damage. He walks with a pronounced limp. I wonder what
they are doing to him. It is frustrating! He says that he
doesn't mind if you use his pictures.

Thanks again for your help, Brian.

---

My thanks to the person for sending along the report and photos.


Brian Vike
Director HBCC UFO Research
Phone 1 250 845 2189
email: hbccufo.nul
Website: http://www.hbccufo.com








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   Apr > Apr 4

             Re: BBC 'Methane Poses Mars Life Puzzle' - Anderson

From: Paul Anderson <paulanderson.nul>
Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2004 09:29:02 -0700
Fwd Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2004 13:08:49 -0400
Subject: Re: BBC 'Methane Poses Mars Life Puzzle' - Anderson


>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 15:21:34 -0800
>Subject: Re: BBC 'Methane Poses Mars Life Puzzle'

>Hello Dan, Paul ..

>I have to agree. The ancient seas announcement was leaked in
>advance with a scheduled announcement, then the headlines.

>I searched in vain for news articles about the Methane matter
>until it came up late, and seemingly underplayed, second page
>type treatment on one of the space science news sites.

>I would have shouted that as a headline, even if it doesn't
>prove present day life on Mars. There is the outgassing model
>for example. But, methane certainly bolsters live critter
>arguments. Ancient methane would be destroyed in relatively
>short order in Mars' thin harsh atmosphere for one thing, and
>Mars had billions of years to exhaust its primordial gases.

>Caution and scientific consensus are highly understandable in
>such pronouncements, the press and public seem to go overboard
>with them. Still, I perceive unequal press treatment when
>comparing Ancient Seas and the Methane matter.


Hi Larry and List,

There are quite a few good articles now from most of the space-
related and some other news web sites; I've updated links to as
many as I know of so far, with some more added just today:

http://www3.telus.net/paulanderson/themeridianijournal.htm

Please note some articles refer to two involved teams, others to
three, but it is actually three (including ESA/Mars Express),
which have all come up with the same initial results. This will
be very interesting to watch over the next weeks and months.

Also re the above link, I've modified my previous MER web page
into more of a general Mars-related weblog format, The Meridiani
Journal; a work-in-progress, but this is the basic idea as it's
up now. As with my CCCRN site, best viewed with current IE and
1028x764 screen resolution. At least I've had some time to work
on it a bit with it still being "off- season" for crop circles
here in Canada until later in the summer.  :-)


Paul








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   Apr > Apr 4

                      Re: Filers Files #15 - Dickenson

From: Ray Dickenson <editor.nul>
Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2004 11:48:14 +0100
Fwd Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2004 13:10:25 -0400
Subject: Re: Filers Files #15 - Dickenson


>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 14:55:48 +0000
>Subject: Re: Filers Files #15

>>From: Ray Dickenson <editor.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul, edfile.nul
>>Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 14:59:06 +0100
>>Subject: Re: Filers Files #15

>>>From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul>
>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 19:54:53 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
>>>Subject: Re: Filers Files #15 - Balaskas

>>>>Methane Gas on Mars Indicates Life.

>>>Since we know for sure that there is at least one planet with
>>>life (Earth), there have been many violent meteor/comet impacts
>>>with the Earth in the past and recently published papers have
>>>shown that organisms in rocks can indeed survive high levels of
>>>radiation and the extremes temperatures of space, a simple and
>>>logical conclusion is that all ETs in our galaxy, if they do
>>>exist, originated on Earth!

<snip>

>>http://www.perceptions.couk.com/uef/setigift2.html#INTELLIGENCE

<snip>

>>http://www.perceptions.couk.com/uef/mass.html#mars

<snip>

>>To sum up
>>From 1) it's likeliest that seeding, immigration or colonization
>>moves out from center of Galaxy, at differing speeds. Those stars
>>may be getting too old for some possible civilizations' needs.
>>See: http://www.perceptions.couk.com/uef/define.html

>>from 2) & 3) it's 50 /50 whether any planet - even in our own
>>Solar System - will have identical, or 'weaker', or violently
>>more efficient life-systems than our own.

<snip>

>>Earth-chauvinism (&/or alarmism) - especially in media - stops
>>us seeing the Universe with clear eyes.

>Yes, but the counter-argument supplied by those who like to
>twist science in order to prove what they prefer to believe
>is this:  God can do anything She wants to do.
> - Dick

Dick, you know that's a low trick, playing the gender card. Like
Jack McDevitt wrote (in "Deepsix") "Put men and women in the
same room and group IQ drops thirty points".

[I.e. co-ed schools are good - females help stabilize males, but
co-ed classrooms are bad - too much male posturing]

I think logical analysis has no race or gender - and might not
even be `human' - see "bigthorts" in Google.


Cheers

Ray


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Perceptions" http://www.perceptions.couk.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~








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   Apr > Apr 5

                Documentary Series 'UFO Under Investigation'

From: Jacques Poulet <jpoulet.nul>
Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2004 09:13:52 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 09:20:07 -0400
Subject: Documentary Series 'UFO Under Investigation'


Hi All,

The new series 'UFO Under Investigation' starts on Canada's
Space Channel, Saturday April 10 at 19:00. See:

http://www.spacecast.com/shows/specials/ufo_under_investigation.asp


-----

"Brand New Series

Number of Episodes
13

Stars
Christian R. Page as Host

Description
For more than 50 years, the UFO phenomenon has fed many rumours.
Hallucinations? Hoaxes? Misidentifications? For the first time
ever, a journalist specializing in "unexplained" phenomena takes
a critical look at these so-called alien visitations."

-----


Jacques Poulet
http://www.chucara.com/
http://www.chucara.com/theses/








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               Re: Closing The Record On Mortellaro - Lehmberg

From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul>
Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2004 10:17:44 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 09:21:46 -0400
Subject: Re: Closing The Record On Mortellaro - Lehmberg


>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 13:24:38 -0600
>Subject: Re: Closing The Record On Mortellaro

>>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 14:49:32 +0000
>>Subject: Re: Closing The Record On Mortellaro

>>>From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul>
>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 05:42:09 _0600
>>>Subject: Closing The Record On Mortellaro

>>>The only thing that kept me going with regard to Dr. Mortellaro
>>>and his 'perceived abduction' for as long as I did was Dr.
>>>Mortellaro himself. I believed the "man." He was that sincerely
>>>convincing..... When his personal credibility finally
>>>evaporated; however, so did any faith in his awkward and
>>>unlikely tale.

>>>His story now, in retrospect and in the opinion of this writer,
>>>seems baldly contrived, patently juvenile and stealthily
>>>appropriated. I'm astonished I was ever taken-in. I'm more than
>>>a little ashamed, actually.

>>Kudos to you, Sir, for your 'confession' and your intellectual
>>honesty.

>>I was once and truly duped by a slick con-man long ago, and ever
>>since have been keenly aware of how they operate and how to spot
>>them. A sometimes contributor to this List told me privately
>>that my BS detector obviously was finely tuned.

>>It is a nice, warm human tendency to want to believe people and
>>to give them the benefit of the doubt. But there are slickers
>>out there (all too many, unfortunately) who know this full well
>>and take advantage of it for their own ignoble and often twisted
>>purposes.

>If Dick's "slick con man" is who I think it is, I know whereof
>he speaks. The guy bamboozled me, too - though, as it happened,
>not my then-wife, who saw through him. Maybe the moral of that
>story is to listen to your spouse.

>Alfred, your honesty and willingness to admit error are entirely
>commendable. Everyone of us can be wrong, and everyone of us is
>wrong about something or other. The first step, when you learn
>you've misjudged or been fooled, is to do as you have done:
>bravely admit it. After that, we take the appropriate lessons to
>heart and go on, sadder but wiser.


Thank you, sir! I learned in the service that admitting error is
a step up from ignorance and an advancement, still. Being wrong
is one thing; being dogmatic when you're wrong is another, and
copping to error is snatching some victory from the jaws of,
complete, defeat. I appreciate your vote of confidence, Mr.
Clark, and am now doubly humbled.

alienview.nul

EXPLORE "AlienViewGroup" at its HostPros URL.
http://www.alienview.net


JOHN FORD RESTORATION FUND -- John will be released eventually.
He'll need a tax free cash stake to get on his feet. Let's put
one together for him; the bigger it is -- the more attention
he gets. It could have been you. E-mail for detail.
$450.00 pledged -- $200.00 collected!

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite.
What others see from afar, I leave far behind me."
- Giordano Bruno, scourged by the scabrously specious scurrilous.








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               Re: losing The Record On Mortellaro - McGonagle

From: Joe McGonagle <joe.mcgonagle.nul>
Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2004 17:30:52 +0100
Fwd Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 10:53:44 -0400
Subject: Re: losing The Record On Mortellaro - McGonagle


>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 15:44:59 -0600
>Subject: Re: Closing The Record On Mortellaro

>>From: Joe McGonagle <joe.mcgonagle.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 18:47:05 +0100
>>Subject: Re: Closing The Record On Mortellaro

>>>From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul>
>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 05:42:09 _0600
>>>Subject: Closing The Record On Mortellaro

>>I suggest that you retain the text from this epic, Alfred. You
>>assuredly will be able to use most of it again when others are
>>decisively defrocked.

>Meaning whom? Let's have some names, please, or this is just yet
>more statement of personal faith. Either that, or just a cheap
>insult.

<snip>

I had in mind Max Burns, convicted drug dealer (more recent than
27 years ago!), who seems to have persuaded some of the more
gullible members of the UFO fraternity that he was not guilty as
charged. It will only be a matter of time before his "pending
appeal" excuse starts to wear a little thin, even amongst the
most gullible. I doubt it will be acknowledged as a decisive
defrocking when people realise the sheer ridiculousness of his
claims, the embarrassed parties will just quietly forget about
their outspoken support for him on this list and in other
forums.

Existence of any appeal could be easily verified given the name
of the solicitor handling the appeal, the firm that they work
for, which court the appeal has been lodged with, and what the
court reference is. None of these details would jeopardise any
appeal in progress, but would confirm whether or not any such
appeal exists. Somehow, I doubt that these details will ever be
forthcoming, and one really ought to wonder "why not? (unless
one is happy to believe everything they are told without
question).

I am quite prepared to eat humble pie if proved wrong. In this
instance, I don't think it will be neccessary to set a place at
the table for me, though it could be quite a large dinner-party
(if everyone turns up).


Cheers,

Joe








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              Re: Radio Search For ET Draws A Blank - Friedman

From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul>
Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2004 14:27:16 -0300
Fwd Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 11:06:54 -0400
Subject: Re: Radio Search For ET Draws A Blank - Friedman


>From: Nick Pope <nick.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2004 00:20:59 +0100
>Subject: Re: Radio Search For ET Draws A Blank

>>From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 19:12:18 -0400
>>Subject: Re: Radio Search For ET Draws A Blank

>>>From: Nick Pope <nick.nul>
>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 19:05:08 +0100
>>>Subject: Re: Radio Search For ET Draws A Blank

><snip>

>>>Notwithstanding the above, my personal view is that SETI is
>>>worth trying. I look forward to debating this with Stan in the
>>>margins of the X-Conference.

>>Nick I invite you and others on the is List to read my Challenge
>>To Seti Specialists, on my website:

>>http://www.v-j-enterprises.com/sfpage.html

>>I agree that there is benefit to people who are working on radio
>>telescope SETI, but can't find a good excuse if one is truly
>>interested in locating ET intelligence. Theirs is a search for
>>radio signals.. having not the slightest evidence that any are
>>out there to be detected.

>I'm not sure if I got to the challenge, but I've cut and pasted
>the quote below from your website:

>"The cult of S.E.T.I. (Silly Effort To Investigate) with its
>crazy notions that nobody would travel -- but that aliens, stuck
>at the level of radio, are trying to attract our attention --
> mocks the notion of flying saucers, not by dealing with the
>evidence, but by proclamations about the ABSENCE of evidence.
>This ignores science."

>Why are attempts to communicate by radio incompatible with
>flying saucers? Can't we have both? I'm wary of making any
>assumptions about hypothetical extraterrestrial civilisations,
>but I'd venture to suggest that they'd do the easy and cheap
>things before the difficult and more expensive ones.

Probably did... a billion years ago.

The SETI guys and gals  are listening for certain kinds of radio
signals whose existence, from any place other than Earth, is not
known and for which there is no evidence, and claiming that is
the way to find out about ETI. Like the drunk who is looking for
his dropped keys under the streetlight, not because he thinks
they are there, because he can see better there.

The same people totally avoid dealing with the enormous amount
of evidence that ETI is responsible for craft coming here,
producing physical traces, multiple radar visual sightings,
abducting Earthlings.

Note the absence of references in the SETI literature to any of
the scientific UFO literature, as though it didn't exist.....

Note, too, the many false pronouncements - based on stupid
assumptions like only chemical rockets would or could be used -
 about the impossibility of interstellar travel. In ufology we
have something to base our conclusions on.

>The key factor, perhaps, is L, in the Drake Equation: the length
>of time that a civilisation remains detectable. It's possible
>that a vast number of civilisations reach the level of
>technology where they send messages, but cease to exist as a
>civilisation (nuclear annihilation, asteroid strike, etc) before
>they develop more advanced technology.

Again we are assuming that only certain radio messages - analog
ones that we can detect - would be used for communication,
though optical SETI is finally getting some attention.

In point of fact, without complete knowledge of how many
civilizations there have been and are, it is impossible to know.

We indeed know about only one civilization here, now. We don't
even know if there have been other advanced technological
societies on Earth millions of years ago.

Why not put numbers on a dart board and throw darts?

Furthermore the SETI cultists assume no colonization or
migration... as though there weren't any societies on Earth that
were using technology developed elsewhere.

>Those civilisations that do survive for a long time and develop
>viable interstellar travel (assuming this is possible) may well
>- following the logic in my third paragraph - have gone through
>a phase where they transmitted radio messages. We may be able to
>detect such messages. Either they're there or they aren't.
>Irrespective of one's views on UFOs, isn't it worth looking?

Only if such looking takes a back seat to working with the best
UFO data... if one is concerned with ETI, as opposed to making
jobs for radio astronomers.

Noting how rapidly technology changes compared to the lifetime
of a planet or solar system, the window of opportunity would
appear to be incredibly short compared to the age of the
neighborhood.

>In terms of studying the data, we can only consider the actions
>of one civilisation, i.e. ours. We've transmitted a radio
>message with information about ourselves (Arecibo, 1974) and
>we've also built spacecraft that are on interstellar missions
>(Pioneer 10 and 11; Voyager 1 and 2).

Remember that the Arecibo message was sent in a particular
direction and was not broadcast in all directions nor even
towards any of the 46 sun-like stars within 54 light years. It
was a propaganda grandstanding event.

The craft are coasting and hardly on interstellar missions.
There was no way to bring them back.

I worked on Pioneer 10 and 11. They are like putting messages in
a bottle and tossing it in the ocean and hoping that somehow it
gets to the moon after being blown out of the neighborhood. They
did their job very well investigating certain regions of the
solar system (Jupiter, Saturn etc).

Because there is smoke coming from my chimney, when I have a
fire in the fireplace, doesn't mean I am sending a meaningful
signal to deep space. The same people denying interstellar
travel, put a plaque on a spacecraft that will only be seen by
aliens travelling between the stars. Ironic isn't it?

>My previous posting suggested that the 1974 Arecibo message
>should be credited to Carl Sagan and Frank Drake. When I
>checked, I found that while they were largely responsible for
>the content, the idea to send a message was first suggested by
>Drake's administrative assistant, Jane Allen.

>I'm going to finish this post with a quote from Frank Drake,
>from the preface to his book Is Anyone Out There?

>"As a scientist, I'm driven by curiosity, of course. I want to
>know what's out there. But as a human being, I persevere in this
>pursuit because SETI promises answers to our most profound
>questions about who we are and where we stand in the universe.
>SETI is at once the most technical of scientific subjects, and
>also the most human."

As you know, Drake makes several claims about the impossibility
of interstellar travel and obviously totally ignores the good
UFO data.

Perhaps astronomers, accustomed to dealing with the inanimate
world, are the last people who should be dealing with
intelligently controlled spacecraft operated by intelligent
beings interacting with Earthlings as opposed to sitting at home
searching for signals.

One might consider how much more ufologists like you an me,
Nick, know about SETI, than the SETI cultists know about
ufology. Seth Shostak's last book about the cosmos foolishly
claims UFOs have never landed and they are never seen on radar.
It is not surprising that he has refused to debate me. See you
in DC.

Stan Friedman
www.v-j-enterprises.com/sfpage.html









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                Re: UFO Magazine Folds After Editor's Death -

From: Joe McGonagle <joe.mcgonagle.nul>
Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2004 17:08:42 +0100
Fwd Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 10:38:37 -0400
Subject: Re: UFO Magazine Folds After Editor's Death -


>From: Roy Hale <roy.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2004 01:44:18 +0100
>Subject: Re: UFO Magazine Folds After Editor's Death

>>From: Roy Hale <roy.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>R
>>Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 16:29:14 +0100
>>Subject: Re: UFO Magazine Folds After Editor's Death

>>Joe,

>>Below are my questions to you.

>>In the 50 years of FSR being published, had you ever thought of
>>promoting it apart from this year?

>>Have you ever agreed with the views of FSR, laid down in stone
>>by G Creighton?

>>If yes, I understand you are a sceptic, does this mean you are
>>changing your presently held views on UFOs and the reality of
>>Humanoids visiting this planet via craft, documented by FSR over
>>the last 50 years?

>>How many sceptic writers has FSR had writing for it in the last
>>50 years?

>>How many UK sceptics have promoted FSR in the last 50 years?

>>Should I feel at odds with a sceptic who wishes to promote the
>>UKs most documented Humanoid Contact magazine?

>I take it Mr McGonagle is still a subscriber to UFO UpDates?

>Would he care to answer the above questions?


I have already told you Roy, you are beyond any help that I
could possibly offer you. Please seek help from a professional
in an appropriate area of expertise. (Perhaps an oral
chiropodist?).


Regards,

Joe








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             Re: Documentary Series 'UFO Under Investigation' -

From: Chris Rutkowski <rutkows.nul>
Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 09:36:16 -0500 (CDT)
Fwd Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 10:51:22 -0400
Subject: Re: Documentary Series 'UFO Under Investigation' -


>From: Jacques Poulet <jpoulet.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2004 09:13:52 -0400
>Subject: Documentary Series 'UFO Under Investigation'

>Hi All,
>The new series 'UFO Under Investigation' starts on Canada's
>Space Channel, Saturday April 10 at 19:00. See:

>http://www.spacecast.com/shows/specials/ufo_under_investigation.asp

>-----

>Stars
>Christian R. Page as Host
>For more than 50 years, the UFO phenomenon has fed many rumours.
>Hallucinations? Hoaxes? Misidentifications? For the first time
>ever, a journalist specializing in "unexplained" phenomena takes
>a critical look at these so-called alien visitations."

I was filmed for three of the episodes, which I've seen now in
both French and English. Congratulations to Christian and
Jacques for their work on the series. It offers a different
perspective to ufology than the more usual "Murrican" approach,
and viewers will likely find it refreshing. The re-enactments
are well-done, and the fill behind the talk-overs is visually
interesting, in a narrative style.







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                  Re: Another Metallic Sound On ISS - White

From: Eleanor White <eleanor.nul>
Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2004 18:28:56 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 11:12:54 -0400
Subject: Re: Another Metallic Sound On ISS - White


>From: Norman
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 20:03:19 -0500
>Subject: Another Metallic Sound On ISS

>"Metallic Sound Heard Again By Space Station Crew"

>http://edition.cnn.com/2004/TECH/space/04/02/space.station.ap/index.html

>Also, posted at several other websites.

>What's causing this metallic sound? ET or ghosts?

As someone who has been harassed by high tech equipment which is
used to loudly rap, rattle, vibrate, push, levitate, bend, and
project sound from any point in my home and the homes of
hundreds of colleagues, there is a third option - the high tech
criminals who wreck innocent people's lives for some yet to be
determined reason.

(The equipment vs. ghost/poltergeist signature is unmistakeable
and I don't have time to debate that.)

Once in a great while they will show off to non-targets.  One of
the members of this forum has witnessed their handiwork. They
could be "having a little fun" with the space station.


Eleanor White








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                         Re: Polar Orbiters? - Hall

From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2004 23:11:32 +0000
Fwd Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 11:20:48 -0400
Subject: Re: Polar Orbiters? - Hall


>From: James Oberg <joberg.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 09:49:41 -0600
>Subject: Re: Polar Orbiters?

>>From: Ray Dickenson <editor.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 12:26:12 +0100
>>Subject: Re: Polar Orbiters?

>>>From: Eleanor White <eleanor.nul>
>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 16:29:20 -0500
>>>Subject: Polar Orbiters?

>>>Has anyone investigated references to at least one polar
>>>orbiting satellite discovered during the Sputnik era,
>>>and presumed therefore not of Earthly origin?

>>Eleanor, thanks for the incentive,

>>Some folk might have already found this quote from:

>>http://www.violations.dabsol.co.uk/probe/probepart2.htm

>>"Dr. Luis Corralos, a Venezuelan astronomer working for his
>>National Communications Ministry, discovered an unclear image of
>>an unknown object apparently trailing Sputnik II, the Soviet
>>satellite launched on 4th November 1957. Investigations were
>>instigated but no public explanation has ever been given... on
>>4th January 1960, not one but two objects of sizeable
>>proportions were detected in polar orbit. These objects were
>>estimated to weigh 15 tons each (compared to the largest US
>>satellite of that time which weighed only 500lbs or the Soviet=92s
>>3000lb.)... US National Space Surveillance Control Centre
>>(NSSCC) formally admitted that an unidentified =91satellite=92 was
>>in polar orbit, although with a rider that a natural explanation
>>would probably be forthcoming at a later date. It wasn=92t, or at
>>least none was made available."

>>Trying for hard details of polar orbit sats. is otherwise a no-go
>>area, probably 'cos many of them (post 'mid-60's) were spy sats.
>>and presumably still verboten to discuss (see "Perceptions" index
>>for CIA).

>Amateur skywatchers have been tracking polar orbiting vehicles
>for decades, see their activities described at:

>http://www.satellite.eu.org/satintro.html

>The problem with the 'violations' site you mention is it's
>hopelessly crammed with ancient bunk and modern mistakes. The
>most relevant misinformation re the 'polar orbit sightings' in
>1960 is the claim that military launchings into such orbit
>didn't begin until later. Some UFO writer just made that up --
>possibly confident that nobody in his target audience would have
>the competence or concern to check on the claim -- but
>(surprise!) it's not true: Discoverer launchings into polar
>orbit began in 1959 (there were eight that year). Many ejected
>recoverable capsules, but most of these went off course and
>entered new orbital trajectories.

>This sort of factual atrocity is no stranger to the 'violations'
>sight, as even a cursory overview can show. In its section on
>'astronaut UFO sightings', it has a picture of an instrument
>boom extending from an Apollo spacecraft and calls it a
>'cylinder-shaped UFO'. It also has another picture attributed to
>Apollo-12 of a classic decorated discoid object that 'NASA won't
>comment on' -- false, of course, as NASA tells anybody who asks
>that the image is of the sunlit end of a jettisoned S-IV-b
>rocket stage, suitably airbrushed by a British UFO magazine to
>remove the edges.

>So I suggest you need to dig more deeply into this interesting
>historical claim.

>James Oberg


I have my differences with Jim Oberg on many particular things
related to UFOs and the history thereof, but his knowledge of
and direct experience with NASA and spaceflight must be
respected.

He may not always be "right" in his interpretations, but who is?

We should be aopreciative and respectful  of his contributions
to this List.

If we think he is - or may be - wrong about something, then it
is our duty to present concrete reasons why we think so.


 - Dick







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                       Re: Filers Files #15 - Friedman

From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul>
Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2004 21:59:18 -0300
Fwd Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 11:24:52 -0400
Subject: Re: Filers Files #15 - Friedman


>From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 14:40:04 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
>Subject: Re: Filers Files #15

>>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 00:15:16 -0500
>>Subject: Re: Filers Files #15

>>>From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul>
>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 19:54:53 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
>>>Subject: Re: Filers Files #15 - Balaskas

<snip>

>>>If life is detected on Mars, it will almostly certainly have
>>>originated from Earth.

>>There is not one stitch of evidence on which to base such a
>>statement, you know it, and as a scientist (if that's what your
>>education suggest you should be) you should be ashamed to make
>>such a baseless statement.

>If we are to be truly honest and scientific, we must base our
>statements on the few facts we already know rather than on our
>beliefs and reasonable assumptions alone.

>Some of these facts, which I do not think anyone can argue with,
>are:

>1) that there is at least one world that we know of that
>harbours a large and wide variety of life - our home planet,
>Earth;

>2) that this life has been around for a very long time;

>3) that Earth, like our heavily cratered Moon, has been
>bombarded by large asteroids and comets in the past;

>4) that some organisms can survive in the hostile conditions of
>space (eg. the bacteria found in the camera of Surveyor 3 that
>soft landed on the Moon in 1967, pieces of which were brought
>back to earth by the Apollo 12 astronauts in 1969; the mold that
>was growing on the outside windows of the Russian MIR space
>station; etc.) for long periods of time and;

>5) that although it is seemly easily for Nature to have done it,
>the fact that scientists working in the top laboratories under
>ideal conditions have failed to create even the simplest forms
>of life suggests to me that all this is very compelling evidence
>that if life is discovered on Mars or some world orbiting Alpha
>Centauri or other star in our region of the Milky Way galaxy,
>this ET life orginated here on Earth.

It is my understanding that a virus has been created. But much
more important is the simple notion that if cosmic cratering can
transfer life to other solar systems, that life here came from
some other solar system since we are obviously not the oldest
solar system in the neighborhood. Zeta 1 and Zeta 2 Reticuli are
at least a billion years older than the sun and only 39 light
years away.....

>There is nothing to be ashamed of my statement when it is based
>on these facts (many others too which I have refrained from
>mentioning in order to keep my reply short).

>I do not consider this as my final word on this subject and I do
>welcome further comments or hearing of any different beliefs you
>or others on the UFO UpDates list would care to share.

I hope it is not your final word, Nick, since you have left out
the most important fact - that the sun is _not_ the oldest sun-
like star in the neighborhood.


Stan Friedman







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                          Crop Circles In Australia

From: Sheryl Gottschall <gottscha.nul>
Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 15:05:28 +1000
Fwd Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 11:35:53 -0400
Subject: Crop Circles In Australia



In A Whirl Over Crop Circle

Story has good photo.

http://www.thesundaymail.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5936,9177996%255E2765,0
0.html

---

[And] I had to scan this from the article, no web site link
sorry.


'Unfakeable' Crop Circles Discovered At Conondale
by Cameron Outridge

Source: The Range News April 1, 2004

A set of four intricate crop circles has been discovered at
Conondale. Resident Christopher White said he would rate the
crop circles about 8 out of 10 on a scale against others
discovered around the world. "Kate (Kate Dash of Montville) has
been to England and has studied them for years. She was
impressed. They were absolutely perfect", Mr White said.

Mr White said the four circles were in a relatively straight
line, roughly north to south. All are neat, clockwise swirls.
They were discovered in a private paddock on Aherns Road on the
way to Crystal Waters on Sunday aftemoon March 28 by local boys,
Eli Colbran and Tom Braby who were bushwalking at the time.

"You can't imagine anyone faking these because the seed heads
would be broken," said Mr White. "This grass has still got seed
heads on it so it doesn't appear as though it could have been
trampled or squashed down. That would have broken off the seed
heads. "These strands of grass are bent and beautifully woven.
It's like the different types of grasses are literally woven
together.

"There were groups of people in England that purposefully went
out and faked a group of circles. They did a good job but they
still couldn't fake it." Mr White said crop circles were often
found above underground water courses. He said many had a very
heightened electromagnetic field. People had experienced high
pitch noises and warbles, "almost music-like".

Mr White said some residents had reported seeing bails of blue
light on the Friday night. Mr White's observations were
supported by another resident who has read widely about crop
circles, but who wished to remain anonymous. "The crop circles
at Conondale could not be man made. It couldn't be faked. Not
without a tremendous amount of technical effort, and there'd be
little point of that in sleepy little Conondale," he said.

The circles, with their centres aligned, are 29 metres centre to
centre and the diameters starting from the north 3.5m, 8m, 2m
and Im. "Very interestingly the circles are aligned but the
centres are offset.

"This is a feature that is typical of crop circles in that the
centre of the circles is not the centre of the swirl, which
makes it unfakeable - unless one wants to rig up an amazing
piece of machinery which creates an ellipse as you walk around
the field.

"There were other aspects which elirninate man made. The
particular field is pasture grass. The property has no cattle on
it. It is not being eaten down and what you have is 300 mm tall
green grass blades. And the seeds are very ripe. if you even
stike one of these seed heads with the side of your hand they
shower off. So if you'd used any mechanical means to flatten the
grass the seed heads would be knocked off. That was not the case
the seed heads were all intact within the circles.

"Also the grass was folded down in a twisting motion and none of
the stems are broken and that act creates a layering effect. We
all attempted to duplicate this process out in the field and you
can't even begin to create any similar effect."

"Most crop circles have a pressure swirl in the centre of
tightly woven stems interlayered one in a tight circle around
the centre. The effect looks rather like a bird's nest and these
circles all have that."

Kate Dash said by midday Tuesday the crop circles had been
degraded. "People should not rush out and expect to see the
pristine circles. There have been amateur attempts at further
circles and the grass is starting to rise."

Less intricate crop circles were discovered in a sorghum crop at
Glass House last year. These were deemed by experts to have been
caused by a natural phenomenon called lodging.

"Something certainly happened at Glasshouse but it wasn't
anything like this," said Ms Dash. "These are beautiful
symmetrical circles."

Ms Dash has visited the crop circles in England many times and
is happy to provide information to people who were interested.

---


Sheryl Gottschall






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                Re: Closing The Record On Mortellaro - Clark

From: Jerome Clark <jkclark.nul>
Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 10:06:27 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 11:43:19 -0400
Subject: Re: Closing The Record On Mortellaro - Clark


>From: Joe McGonagle <joe.mcgonagle.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2004 17:30:52 +0100
>Subject: Re: Closing The Record On Mortellaro

>>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 15:44:59 -0600
>>Subject: Re: Closing The Record On Mortellaro

>>>From: Joe McGonagle <joe.mcgonagle.nul>
>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 18:47:05 +0100
>>>Subject: Re: Closing The Record On Mortellaro

>>>>From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul>
>>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>>Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 05:42:09 _0600
>>>>Subject: Closing The Record On Mortellaro

>>>I suggest that you retain the text from this epic, Alfred. You
>>>assuredly will be able to use most of it again when others are
>>>decisively defrocked.

>>Meaning whom? Let's have some names, please, or this is just yet
>>more statement of personal faith. Either that, or just a cheap
>>insult.

>I had in mind Max Burns, convicted drug dealer (more recent than
>27 years ago!), who seems to have persuaded some of the more
>gullible members of the UFO fraternity that he was not guilty as
>charged. It will only be a matter of time before his "pending
>appeal" excuse starts to wear a little thin, even amongst the
>most gullible. I doubt it will be acknowledged as a decisive
>defrocking when people realise the sheer ridiculousness of his
>claims, the embarrassed parties will just quietly forget about
>their outspoken support for him on this list and in other
>forums.

I appreciate the frank response and the naming of names (or a
name anyway). What I objected to was what I took to be a
suggestion that legions of ufologists and UFO-concerned persons
out there wait to be exposed as lying weasels. My point was
simply that there are unlikely to be any more (or any fewer) of
them there than in any other group of randomly selected,
fallible fellow humans.

As for the instance you cite, I have no knowledge to speak of
and thus no opinion, and I leave it to those more informed than
I to make their own judgments. I urge others comparably
unlearned in the specifics to do the same.


Jerry Clark








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                   A UK-Led Micro-Mission to Mars' Moons?

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 08:10:42 -0700
Fwd Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 11:45:45 -0400
Subject: A UK-Led Micro-Mission to Mars' Moons?


Source: MarsToday.com

http://www.marstoday.com/viewpr.html?pid=13988

04-04-04

A UK-Led Micro-Mission to the Moons of Mars?

The planet Mars possesses two small moons named Phobos (Fear)
and Deimos (Terror). Although their existence has been known
since their discovery in 1877 and a number of long-range
observations have been made by Earth-based telescopes and
spacecraft that have visited Mars, the satellites remain only
partially studied, particularly Deimos.

Consequently, a number of outstanding scientific questions
remain concerning their origins, evolution, physical nature and
composition. A recent study funded by the British National Space
Centre (BNSC) aims to answer these questions by sending two
small spacecraft to orbit both moons, followed by a landing on
one of them.

The proposed mission would not only demonstrate some impressive
new developments in British space technology, but would also be
conducted for a much lower cost than has hitherto been necessary
for such ambitious projects.

The mission, currently known by its working 'codename' of M-PADS
- Mars Phobos and Deimos Survey - will be described on Friday, 2
April 2004 by Dr. Andrew Ball (Open University), during the RAS
National Astronomy Meeting in Milton Keynes.

The mission, proposed by UK company QinetiQ in partnership with
Dr. Ball and Professor John Zarnecki (Open University), involves
the launch of two mini-spacecraft stacked on top of each other.
One spacecraft will carry instruments for remote observations of
the moons and in situ measurements of their environment in Mars
orbit. The other will carry a lander to be delivered onto the
surface of either Phobos or Deimos.

Each spacecraft would use solar-electric propulsion to reach
Mars orbit, with lightweight solar arrays to provide electrical
power for an ion engine. Since ion engines have a very high
fuel-mass efficiency, the Earth-Mars transfer and Mars orbit
insertion manoeuvre would be achieved with only a small amount
of propellant.

The ion engine also enables the spacecraft to carry a larger
scientific payload than usual, so compensating for the small
size of the spacecraft. Similarly, on reaching Mars, the
spacecraft will have great flexibility to select their chosen
orbit, with little impact in terms of required fuel mass. The
orbiter spacecraft will spiral down from high Mars orbit to
rendezvous with Phobos and Deimos in turn, before the spacecraft
carrying the lander spirals down to achieve the first ever
touchdown on a Martian moon.

The scientific objectives of M-PADS are as follows:

* Distinguish between different models of the origin of Phobos
and Deimos;

* Establish (or disprove) a link between the moons and known
asteroid types;

* Study how Phobos and Deimos have been affected by their
association with Mars, and how Mars and its environment have
been affected by the presence of satellites;

* Search for frozen volatiles such as water ice in their
interiors;

* Determine whether the grooves on Phobos are the result of
collision with ejecta from impacts on Mars or the surface
expression of internal features, e.g. cracks induced by impacts;

* Find out how and why Phobos and Deimos differ, e.g. in surface
morphology and composition;

* Measure differences in surface and sub-surface properties.

The measurement requirements imply both surface and orbiting
remote sensing instruments, so M-PADS is expected to accommodate
a 60 kg orbital payload and a 16 kg lander payload.

"The latest developments in spacecraft technology allow the Open
University to contemplate some very exciting, ambitious new
missions," said Andrew Ball. "Although only a small mission, M-
PADS would do what all of the previous, large missions have so
far been unable to achieve at the Martian moons."

M-PADS is being offered as a possibility for the 'Mars Micro
Mission' slot in ESA's proposed Aurora programme, but it could
also be tailored to fit into ESA's science programme since its
state of technology readiness is appropriate for a Phase A study
to start in 2007. After the recent, brief pre-Phase A study,
more work needs to be funded to produce a fully detailed mission
proposal, one of a number of future mission possibilities that
the Planetary and Space Sciences Research Institute at the Open
University is pursuing.

HISTORICAL OBSERVATIONS

The Red Planet has almost always been the primary objective of
space missions to the Martian system, with the moons receiving
only brief attention. The first spacecraft to image Phobos from
a distance was Mariner 7, during its brief flyby of Mars in
1969. In the 1970s, the Mariner 9, Viking 1 and Viking 2 Mars
orbiters provided the first detailed pictures, showing that both
are irregular in shape. Phobos measures 13.3 x 11.1 x 9.3 km,
while Deimos is 7.5 x 6.1 x 5.2 km.

Further observations were performed by Mars Pathfinder and Mars
Global Surveyor, but sadly the only missions to have Phobos as
their primary objective - the Soviet Union's Phobos 1 & 2
launched in 1988 - failed to fulfil their potential due to loss
of the spacecraft. Some additional measurements of Phobos are
planned by the European Space Agency's Mars Express spacecraft,
currently in orbit around Mars, but these will largely neglect
Deimos.

Both Phobos and Deimos are asteroid-like in appearance - in
fact, they may be asteroids captured into Mars orbit by its
gravity. Although each is pockmarked with impact craters, the
surface of Deimos appears smoother and more sparsely cratered.
The most notable feature on Phobos is a large crater named
Stickney, which measures about 10 km in diameter. Both moons are
tidally locked into "synchronous" rotation, always presenting
the same face towards Mars.








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                   Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers

From: Chris Parr <cparr.nul>
Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 08:40:38 +0100
Fwd Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 11:47:15 -0400
Subject: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers


It has been nine years since the Santilli Alien Autopsy footage
had captured the imagination of the World. Controversy has
always attached itself to the sensational footage and matters
were not helped by Ray Santilli and his ambiguous tale of how he
acquired the footage and refusal to provide a sample of the
Kodak Reel.

As far as I am aware, nobody has come forward and admitted any
responsibility or association to hoaxing the Alien Autopsy
footage.

If the Autopsy footage was an elaborate hoax, then somebody in
the World of Ufology must know the identity of the Creators.
Surely it is time for a spectacular UFO revelation on this
famous footage.


Chris Parr








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                  Re: Another Metallic Sound On ISS - Smith

From: James Smith <zeus001002.nul>
Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 11:43:11 -0400 (GMT-04:00)
Fwd Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 12:34:41 -0400
Subject: Re: Another Metallic Sound On ISS - Smith


>From: Eleanor White <eleanor.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2004 18:28:56 -0400
>Subject: Re: Another Metallic Sound On ISS

>>From: Norman
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 20:03:19 -0500
>>Subject: Another Metallic Sound On ISS

>>"Metallic Sound Heard Again By Space Station Crew"

>>http://edition.cnn.com/2004/TECH/space/04/02/space.station.ap/index.html

>>What's causing this metallic sound? ET or ghosts?

>As someone who has been harassed by high tech equipment which is
>used to loudly rap, rattle, vibrate, push, levitate, bend, and
>project sound from any point in my home and the homes of
>hundreds of colleagues, there is a third option - the high tech
>criminals who wreck innocent people's lives for some yet to be
>determined reason.

>(The equipment vs. ghost/poltergeist signature is unmistakeable
>and I don't have time to debate that.)

>Once in a great while they will show off to non-targets.  One of
>the members of this forum has witnessed their handiwork. They
>could be "having a little fun" with the space station.


In this case however I think its likely more mundane.....

From the 4/3 ISS Status report:

"The cause for the anomalous noise heard yesterday during the
morning daily planning conference has not been isolated yet.

Past records indicate that at the time of noise ventilation fan
#2 in the Service Module crew cabin cycled On/Off, and that the
same fan also cycled On/Off at the time of the first occurrence
of the "whumping" noise on 11/26/03.

Thruster activity for attitude change occurred yesterday over an
hour later than the time of the noise."








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   Apr > Apr 5

                               E.T. Call Home

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 08:37:44 -0700
Fwd Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 12:45:55 -0400
Subject: E.T. Call Home


Source: Redding.com

http://www.redding.com/news/stories/20040404lo039.shtml

04-04-04

E.T., call home

Observatory adding antennas in effort to make contact with
extraterrestrial life

The dream of reaching out to
extraterrestrial life is taking shape in Shasta County's
hinterlands in Hat Creek, where stacks of giant-size dishes wait
to form the world's largest telescope array.

About 75 miles east of Redding, resident scientist Rick
Forster's eyes light up when he talks about what other
intelligent life could be detected by the coming 32-antenna
radio telescope array.

"Is this a 'Star Trek' universe or not?" Forster asked, posing
one of the questions scientists working at Hat Creek Radio
Observatory hope to answer.

By this fall, they expect to look into the heavens with a
collection of 32, 20-foot diameter dish-shaped telescope
antennas here, said Leo Blitz, director of the radio astronomy
laboratory at University of California at Berkeley.

The telescope grouping will work jointly as a single instrument
and is planned to grow to 350 antennas by 2010.

Astronomers will not only study how stars and galaxies form, but
"listen" for any unnatural radio signals broadcast through
space.

And they hope aliens are trying to say hello, said Hat Creek
observer Jason Kirk, an astronomer with an expertise in star
formation.

"They're looking for aliens sending out signals saying, 'We're
here. Come and find us,' " he said.

The search goes far beyond looking for simple space
microorganisms. It specifically seeks life sophisticated enough
to send a powerful radio signal, perhaps in a Morse codelike
message.

"It's almost like we're looking for ourselves," Kirk said.

The project, called the Allen Telescope Array, is made possible
with a $13.5 million grant from Microsoft co-founder Paul G.
Allen. In 2000, he gave $11.5 million for the research and
development of three of the telescope antennas already in place
at Hat Creek.

Those millions are about a 20 percent savings compared with the
cost of building one huge telescope, Blitz said. For example, he
estimates it took about $120 million to build the 100-meter-
diameter Green Bank Telescope in Green Bank, W.Va., Blitz said.

"Ours is smaller and it's cheaper," he said.

Using a mass of antennas, rather than one large one, will enable
scientists at Hat Creek to look at up to 16 stars at a time,
taking in far more information and with greater clarity than
before.

Today, the world's largest telescope array is a collection of 30
telescope antennas in Pune, India, Blitz said. Not far behind is
the VLA (Very Large Array) near Socorro, N.M., bearing 27
antennas, with more to be added.

But Hat Creek's project is expected to surpass both arrays in
its first phase of 32 antennas, Blitz said. Its second phase
plans for 206 antennas. A third phase, scheduled for completion
late this decade, would scatter 350 antennas at the site.

The Allen project is a collaboration between UC Berkeley and the
Mountain View-based SETI Institute, whose name is an acronym for
Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence.

SETI's mission is to explore the origin, nature and prevalence
of intelligent life in the universe. Meanwhile, UC Berkeley
radio astronomers will try to unveil the evolution of the
universe from its earliest times, Blitz said.

"We can think about the SETI part as asking, 'Are we alone?' and
the radio astronomy part as 'How did we get here?' And the
beauty of this telescope is that we can provide answers to these
questions simultaneously," Blitz said.

The Hat Creek site in eastern Shasta County is ideal for the
project, Blitz said. A largely undeveloped area with little
radio interference from cell phone towers, planes or radar, Hat
Creek is a quiet place in terms of unwanted radio "noise," Blitz
said.

"It turns out it's one of the best sites in the country," Blitz
said.

And the project is the stuff of dreams for enthusiastic
astronomers like Forster, who has worked at Hat Creek's
observatory nearly 14 years.

On a wall in his office, Jodie Foster stares out from a poster
of the science-fiction movie "Contact." It's one of Forster's
favorite films, he said with a smile.

Like the scientist in the movie, Forster is certain intelligent
life can be found somewhere in the universe. But only if we
look.

"We are not the only ones here," he said.








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                        Re: 'Flight License'? - Groff

From: Terry Groff <terry.nul>
Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 11:11:04 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 12:49:53 -0400
Subject: Re: 'Flight License'? - Groff


>From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 20:30:54 -0800
>Subject: Re: UFO 'Flight License'?

>>From: Terry Groff <terry.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 10:31:18 -0600
>>Subject: UFO 'Flight License'?

>>I received an entry in my UFO Tools guestbook that merely
>>supplied a URL to this site:

>>http://www.ufoschoepfer.org/

>>The site is in German with a very bad English translation done
>>by Google.

>>The gist, I think, is that they are looking for people to
>>purchase UFO Flight licenses (5 ?) in order to further their
>>research. It appears purchasers will be allowed flights on their
>>craft once they are completed.

>>A quote from the translation:

>>"They as flight person entitled will belong to the pioneers of
>>the UFO flying time age. A flight with the UFO is guaranteed to
>>each owner of a flight licence after construction conclusion."

>>I'm not sure what "5 ?" means (Deuschmarks?, Euros?)

>>Even if this is bogus the 'license' might make a nice novelty
>>gift. :-)

>My Pilot's license says: Commerial Pilot,Single and Multi-engine
>land - I regret not getting my Seaplane rating - or Helicopter.

>Let's see... would the UFO license require a type rating? Or a
>mere category, like UFO, single transwarp, or UFO, daylight
>only, or UFO, night IFR, cloaking device?

Hi GT,

I don't think they are actually selling pilots licenses but
rather passenger licenses (sic). 5 Euros sounds kinda cheap to
me though. They must think that a lot of people will buy them.

I would buy one as a novelty, much like I did when I "named" a
star from the International Star Registry. I have no illusions
they would really name a star after me and I would have no
illusions that I would get to ride in a homemade "UFO".


Terry










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             Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers - Mantle

From: Phillip Mantle <suemantle.nul>
Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 12:31:12 +0100
Fwd Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 07:47:09 -0400
Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers - Mantle


>From: Chris Parr <cparr.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 08:40:38 +0100
>Subject: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers

>It has been nine years since the Santilli Alien Autopsy footage
>had captured the imagination of the World. Controversy has
>always attached itself to the sensational footage and matters
>were not helped by Ray Santilli and his ambiguous tale of how he
>acquired the footage and refusal to provide a sample of the
>Kodak Reel.

>As far as I am aware, nobody has come forward and admitted any
>responsibility or association to hoaxing the Alien Autopsy
>footage.

<snip>

I agree totally with Chris Parr. I wax the first UFO researcher
contacted by Ray Santilli and was fortunate/unfortunate enough
to be involved with the alien autopsy film and I am one of only
a handful of people to view both autopsy films.

I have followed many leads most of which have simply ended down
one blind alley after another. I have spoken to a number of
movie FX people, most of whom think the film a fake but none of
whom can point the finger at its creator.

There were those out there who scoffed at the film and declared
it a fake simply because it must be, but very few, if any have
come up with any direct evidence to prove conclusively once and
for all that it is indeed a fake. Likewise, Ray Santilli cannot
prove it authentic either.

It goes without saying that I will gladly follow up any
information that might help prove or disprove the authenticity
of this damn film. If anyone on the list has any information
then please share it with me.

Whatever your opinion is regarding this film, it is without
doubt the most controversial film in the entire history of UFO
research. Of that there is _no_ doubt as far as i'm  concerned.

If you've got any information then please feel free to share it
with me off list if necessary.


Regards,

Philip Mantle.
philipmantle.nul

PS.

Some of you might be interested in the Alien Autopsy Archive
section of our web site at:

www.beyondroswell.com









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             Re: Documentary Series 'UFO Under Investigation' -

From: Chris Rutkowski <rutkows.nul>
Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 09:36:16 -0500 (CDT)
Fwd Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 07:55:43 -0400
Subject: Re: Documentary Series 'UFO Under Investigation' -


>From: Jacques Poulet <jpoulet.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2004 09:13:52 -0400
>Subject: Documentary Series 'UFO Under Investigation'

>Hi All,
>The new series 'UFO Under Investigation' starts on Canada's
>Space Channel, Saturday April 10 at 19:00. See:

>http://www.spacecast.com/shows/specials/ufo_under_investigation.asp

>-----

>Stars
>Christian R. Page as Host
>For more than 50 years, the UFO phenomenon has fed many rumours.
>Hallucinations? Hoaxes? Misidentifications? For the first time
>ever, a journalist specializing in "unexplained" phenomena takes
>a critical look at these so-called alien visitations."

I was filmed for three of the episodes, which I've seen now in
both French and English.

Congratulations to Christian and Jacques for their work on the
series.

It offers a different perspective to ufology than the more usual
"Murrican" approach, and viewers will likely find it refreshing.
The re-enactments are well-done, and the images behind the
voice-overs are visually interesting, in a narrative style.








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              Russian 'Flying Saucers' To Grace American Skies?

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 09:17:31 -0700
Fwd Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 07:58:43 -0400
Subject: Russian 'Flying Saucers' To Grace American Skies?


Source: Mosnews.com

http://www.mosnews.com/news/2004/04/05/ufo.shtml

Russian 'Flying Saucers' to Grace American Skies

04-05-04

MosNews

You might not have to go to New Mexico to see a UFO-flying
saucers are coming to your home skies, thanks to Russian
aircraft designers. The U.S. Naval Air Systems Command has
signed an agreement with Russia�s EKIP Aviation Concern to
cooperate in the production of unique flying saucer-shaped
aircraft developed in Russia, perfect for putting out forest
fires and monitoring oil pipelines. Originally developed in
1992, the alien-looking aircraft failed to secure funding from
the Russian government. Twelve years later, the U.S. and China
are very interested in making it work.

Obviously, the unusual round shape in itself makes such a
vehicle exciting-but what are the practical applications? "This
is a radically new craft," Alexey Konovalov, EKIP�s executive
director, explains. It doesn�t require a long runway and can
land on sand, but most importantly, the shape of the aircraft is
a brilliant solution for getting rid of vibration, a long-time
problem in aircraft design. EKIP plans to build first unpiloted
vehicles that could be used for monitoring in hard-to-reach
areas and then move to building larger craft weighing up to 100
tons. The unpiloted EKIP "ships" could aid in putting out forest
fires as well as collecting information that could be
transmitted to a land base, Konovalov said.

Originally, the Russian government had promised funding for the
project, but in 1995, three years after the construction
commenced, all funding was cut off. Private investors couldn�t
be persuaded to commit the millions of dollars necessary to
continue work on the craft, Konovalov laments. Now, with the
agreement between EKIP and the Naval Air System Command signed,
EKIP is waiting for the funds to come in and in the meantime,
negotiating with China to discuss a possible joint venture.

Russian designers will keep the rights to their unique work, but
the vehicles might be produced either in Russia or the U.S.
Currently, the plan is to test the aircraft in 2007 and launch
it into mass production in another five years. Until then, any
strange shapes in the sky are certain to be flown by little
green men.











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                       Cameras To Roll On Suffolk UFOs

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 09:21:07 -0700
Fwd Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 07:59:43 -0400
Subject: Cameras To Roll On Suffolk UFOs



Source: East Angilian Daily Times

http://www.eadt.co.uk/content/news/story.asp?datetime=05+Apr+2004+05%3A52&tbrand
=EADOnline&tCategory=NEWS&category=News&brand=EADOnline&itemid=IPED05+Apr+2004+0
0%3A52%3A50%3A603

Cameras to roll on Suffolk UFOs

April 5, 2004 05:52

By Rebecca Sheppard

A film about the mysterious sighting of UFOs at an East Anglian
air base is a step closer to being made after a funding body
pledged to support it.

Despite not reaching the finals of the Landmark East
competition, the feature film has been given a strong thumbs up
from the East of England Development Agency.

Joanna Carrick, who is creative director of the Ipswich-based
film and theatre company Red Rose Chain, said she was looking
forward to developing the project with the help of the agency.

She said: "Although they were really into our project they
didn't think it was right for the landmark competition. It was
not that they thought it was any less good than those ones that
were chosen.

"Our work is about social inclusion and involving the community
and I think they were really interested in that aspect.

"We are really glad that we entered the competition in our
maverick and different way. I think they found it impossible to
pull it in with the other projects, which were mainly
architectural."

The project first came into fruition four years ago when the
company performed their newly written play in Rendlesham Forest,
which was inspired by the UFO sightings at RAF Bentwaters, near
Woodbridge.

The base was being used by the American air force in 1980 when
personnel claim they witnessed some unusual lights on two nights
after Christmas. The case has excited worldwide interest since.

However Ms Carrick, who will be directing Eastgate next year,
said it would be more than East Anglia's answer to X-Files.

She said: "It captures the imaginations of people but it is also
a human story about people falling in love and about families."

The exact amount of money that will be given to the company has
yet to be stipulated.

Ms Carrick, who was given the news on Wednesday as the four
finalists in the landmark competition were announced, said the
company would need a "substantial amount" to support the
ambitious project.

But she admitted it would find a way to make the film whatever
funding it receives.

The East of England Development Agency has also expressed an
interest in Red Rose Chain's annual Rendlesham Forest
production, raising the possibility of developing it into a
drama festival.










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             Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers - Kaeser

From: Steven Kaeser <steve.nul>
Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 12:27:48 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 08:00:52 -0400
Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers - Kaeser


>From: Chris Parr <cparr.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 08:40:38 +0100
>Subject: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers

>It has been nine years since the Santilli Alien Autopsy footage
>had captured the imagination of the World. Controversy has
>always attached itself to the sensational footage and matters
>were not helped by Ray Santilli and his ambiguous tale of how he
>acquired the footage and refusal to provide a sample of the
>Kodak Reel.

>As far as I am aware, nobody has come forward and admitted any
>responsibility or association to hoaxing the Alien Autopsy
>footage.

>If the Autopsy footage was an elaborate hoax, then somebody in
>the World of Ufology must know the identity of the Creators.
>Surely it is time for a spectacular UFO revelation on this
>famous footage.

>Chris Parr

Hi Chris,

There are a few people still following this story, but very few.
I believe that Philip Mantle could probably provide the best
description of where we are today as far as the AA "film" is
concerned, but others might disagree. One individual came
forward to acknowledge his involvement in the creation of the
"Tent Sequence", which was never actually broadcast in the U.S.
but appeared on many of the videos that were sold.  However,
this person's story had its own problems and was based on
annecdotal testimony, so it didn't really resolve much.

Ray still has an autopsy "film" that has never been released or
shown publicly, and I would suspect that he'll be coming out of
the woodwork someday to offer that for review and purchase.  But
without the cameraman to back up the images, we're never going
to get beyond the question of their validity.

I understand that Robert Kiviat is back in the Producer's chair
and perhaps he'll update the AA "film" investigation in one of
his upcoming productions.


Steve









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                Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers -

From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman.nul>
Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 10:17:49 -0700
Fwd Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 08:02:41 -0400
Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers -


>From: Chris Parr <cparr.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 08:40:38 +0100
>Subject: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers

>It has been nine years since the Santilli Alien Autopsy footage
>had captured the imagination of the World. Controversy has
>always attached itself to the sensational footage and matters
>were not helped by Ray Santilli and his ambiguous tale of how he
>acquired the footage and refusal to provide a sample of the
>Kodak Reel.

Ray did provide a sample of the footage to Kodak; just not a
sample with the image of the creature. I think Bob Shell still
has the sample Ray gave him.

>As far as I am aware, nobody has come forward and admitted any
>responsibility or association to hoaxing the Alien Autopsy
>footage.

Chris, EBK, List,

There is a simple reason that no one has come forward to admit a
fraud: There was no fraud, or hoax. The footage is the actual
dissection of a creature of unknown origin and the debris of the
craft in which it traveled. To purchase high resolution AA CDs
and the FW photos, visit

http://www.v-j-enterprises.com/aafilm/details.html

Ray Santilli's cut goes to a children's hospital.

>If the Autopsy footage was an elaborate hoax, then somebody in
>the World of Ufology must know the identity of the Creators.
>Surely it is time for a spectacular UFO revelation on this
>famous footage.

There has been a "spectacular UFO revelation". My brother and I
have found the cameraman's crash site. Do you remember this?

http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2003/oct/m09- 004.shtml

Before you ask: Of course I can prove this beyond reasonable
doubt. But you'll have to visit the site. My brother, who lives
in Albuquerque, will guide anyone interested.


Ed







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                          Secrecy News -- 04/05/04

From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood.nul>
Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 13:28:03 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 08:04:09 -0400
Subject: Secrecy News -- 04/05/04


SECRECY NEWS
from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy
Volume 2004, Issue No. 33
April 5, 2004


**      NRO RELEASES FY 1998 BUDGET DOCUMENT
**      HOUSE DEMS PRESS FOR INTELLIGENCE REFORM
**      JASON REPORT ON BIOMEDICAL IMAGING
**      ISRAEL REPORT ON PRE-WAR IRAQ INTELLIGENCE
**      SENATE STAFF REPORT ON NORTH KOREA
**      RECENT CRS PRODUCTS
**      RECENT FOIA RULINGS


NRO RELEASES FY 1998 BUDGET DOCUMENT

The National Reconnaissance Office (NRO) has released an
uncommonly large fraction of its congressional budget
justification book for Fiscal Year 1998-1999.

Last year, the NRO denied a five year old Freedom of Information
Act request for the budget material by asserting that the entire
document was an "operational" intelligence record that was
exempt from search and review.  On appeal, however, the NRO last
week released something like ten percent of the 300 page budget
book.

The newly disclosed information provides a snapshot of NRO
activities several years ago, including the beginning of the
troubled Future Imagery Architecture, the long-promised next
generation intelligence satellite system.

See the redacted version of the Congressional Budget
Justification for the National Reconnaissance Program for FY
1998-1999 here:

http://www.fas.org/irp/nro/fy98/index.html

On March 25, the Senate Armed Services Committee held a hearing
on national security space programs.  Prepared testimony from
that hearing, including a particularly substantial statement
from Adm. James O. Ellis, Commander of U.S. Strategic Command,
is available here:

http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/2004_hr/index.html#space


HOUSE DEMS PRESS FOR INTELLIGENCE REFORM

Democratic members of the House Intelligence Committee, led by
Rep. Jane Harman, have introduced legislation to advance their
vision of needed reforms to U.S. intelligence.

The Intelligence Transformation Act (H.R. 4104) would establish
a new Director of National Intelligence and promote "jointness"
in intelligence collection and analysis.

In an April 1 letter to the President Bush, the House Democrats
identified ten steps the President could take immediately to
improve U.S. intelligence.

In one of their recommendations, they urged that the White House
"recuse itself from all declassification decisions involving
9/11 or the Iraq WMD inquiry and ask the CIA to appoint a
professional, non-partisan review panel to make declassification
recommendations."

See their letter to the White House here:

  http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/2004_cr/harman040104.html

"We had hoped to produce a bipartisan bill," said Rep. Harman.
 "We shared our legislative ideas with the majority on our
Committee, but we did not want the legislative year to pass
while awaiting their response."


JASON REPORT ON BIOMEDICAL IMAGING

The latest publication of the low-profile JASON scientific
advisory group examines the use of computer systems to generate
two and three dimensional images of biological systems, from the
molecular to the whole-body level.

Though mainly for specialists, it provides a reasonably lucid
account that other interested readers may appreciate.

See "The Computational Challenges of Medical Imaging," dated
February 2004, here:

http://www.fas.org/irp/agency/dod/jason/medimag.pdf


ISRAEL REPORT ON PRE-WAR IRAQ INTELLIGENCE

An official Israeli report on intelligence leading up to the war
in Iraq was severely critical of the quality and reliability of
Israeli intelligence.

Israeli government consumers of intelligence "are flooded with
'an ocean of material and paperwork of doubtful value, to put it
mildly,' with trivial analysis and ambiguous assessments of
known facts, and pretentious, and worthless, psychological
portraits of Arab leaders and their intentions," wrote Aluf Benn
in the Israeli daily Haaretz (April 1), paraphrasing some of the
findings of the report.

But in focusing on issues rather that personalities, the new
report is "a useful counterpoint to the mud bath that is
America's national debate on intelligence and
counterintelligence policy," according to an editorial in the
U.S. Jewish newspaper Forward.

An English translation of the report was not immediately
available, but a copy of the 82 page Hebrew original is posted
here:

http://www.fas.org/irp/world/israel/iraq_intel.pdf


SENATE STAFF REPORT ON NORTH KOREA

A new trip report by staff members of the Senate Foreign
Relations Committee describes their January 2004 visit to North
Korea and their findings on proliferation, humanitarian and
economic issues.  See:

http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/2004_rpt/dprk.pdf


RECENT CRS PRODUCTS

Recent reports of the Congressional Research Service (CRS) on
national security topics include:

"Nuclear Warhead 'Pit' Production: Background and Issues for
Congress," updated March 29:

http://www.fas.org/spp/starwars/crs/RL31993.pdf

"Weapons of Mass Destruction: Trade Between North Korea and
Pakistan," updated March 11:

http://www.fas.org/spp/starwars/crs/RL31900.pdf

"Terrorism in South Asia," March 8:

http://www.fas.org/irp/crs/RL32259.pdf

Congressional leaders oppose direct public access to CRS reports
like these.

Now the Google search engine has been harnessed by Steven Stoft
of Zfacts.com to make it possible to find CRS reports that have
been posted online, wherever they may be.  See:

http://zfacts.com/p/576.html


RECENT FOIA RULINGS

Judicial rulings in Freedom of Information Act lawsuits from the
first three months of this year were noted by the Justice
Department Office of Information and Privacy here:

http://www.usdoj.gov/oip/foiapost/2004foiapost10.htm


_______________________________________________
Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the
Federation of American Scientists.

To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to
secrecy_news-request.nul
with "subscribe" in the body of the message.

OR email your request to saftergood.nul

Secrecy News is archived at:
http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html

_______________________
Steven Aftergood
Project on Government Secrecy
Federation of American Scientists
web:    www.fas.org/sgp/index.html
email:  saftergood.nul
voice:  (202) 454-4691








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              Re: Why I Support Alien Abduction Study - Harney

From: John Harney <magonia.nul>
Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 19:14:32 +0100
Fwd Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 08:05:50 -0400
Subject: Re: Why I Support Alien Abduction Study - Harney


>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
>To:  ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 11:48:27 -0400
>Subject: Re: Why I Support Alien Abduction Study

>>From: John Harney <magonia.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 19:34:10 +0100
>>Subject: Re: Why I Support Alien Abduction Study

>>How interesting it is that any scientific projects which attempt to
>>resolve any questions relevant to ufology always seem to generate
>>great anxiety in certain quarters. Is it feared that the Goldsmiths
>>College team will eventually arrive at the "wrong" answers to the
>>UFO abduction enigma?

>>Surely, if anything alleged to be physical evidence in connection
>>with UFO abduction reports is presented to the psychologists,
>>they are quite capable of submitting it to the appropriate experts
>>for evaluation.


>What experts?

>How can there be experts in a phenomenon that has been
>systematically denied by those timorous persons in the fields
of
>science that even begin to touch upon it? To even make the
>statement is a conclusion in itself, meaning that it
>[abductions] is a problem with the individual's mental health in
>one form or another. Either it is real or it isn't. If it is
>then the experts are on the other side. We have none.

I don't mean experts in ufology, I mean experts in analysing
various kinds of physical evidence. For example, "scoop marks"
allegedly caused by the Greys taking skin samples could be
examined by a dermatologist, metallic objects alleged to be of
alien origin could be examined by a metallurgist, and so on.

>Unlike religious dogma, your statement "Is it feared that the
>Goldsmiths College team will eventually arrive at the "wrong"
>answers to the UFO abduction enigma?" This could not be further
>from the truth.

>Those suffering the "abduction syndrome" if it can be called
>that, desperately seek answers.

Many of those who suffer the abduction syndrome undoubtedly seek
answers. However, most of those who study abductees obviously do
not want answers, they want to keep it mysterious (think book
contracts, lecture tours, TV chat shows). Many of them either
attack or ignore those who suggest sensible explanations.

>If this did turn out in the end to have some psyciatric source,
>I'm sure those affected would welcome the news so that they
>could then seek answers as to how to compabt it.

What other possible explanation could there be? I have never seen
any rational, coherent theory offered to describe the UFO
abduction phenomenon except for those which atttempt to describe
it in psychological and sociological terms.

>If you did any reading on the subject or examined a few cases
>you would know that John. I for one applaud anyone or any
>institution such as the Goldsmiths College team that does a
>controlled study-as long as they don't go in like Condon with
>their conclusions already drawn. Who is paying for their study
>incidentally?

Condon's approach to the UFO problem certainly seemed somewhat
biased, so that many people seem to forget that some of the
investigators were obviously puzzled by some of the data they
obtained. Also, I think it is worth quoting this paragraph from
Condon's conclusions in his report, as so many UFO believers
conveniently overlook it:

"If [scientists] agree with our conclusions, they will turn
their valuable attention and talents elsewhere. If they disagree
it will be because our report has helped them reach a clear
picture of wherein existing studies are faulty or incomplete and
thereby will have stimulated ideas for more accurate studies. If
they do get such ideas and can formulate them clearly, we have
no doubt that support will be forthcoming to carry on with such
clearly-defined, specific studies. We think that such ideas for
work should be supported."

This is surely what the Goldsmiths College team is trying to do,
unlike the credulous mob who have nothing to offer but slogans,
buzz-phrases and pseudo-scientific mumbo-jumbo.


John Harney








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                Re: Closing The Record On Mortellaro - Harney

From: John Harney <magonia.nul>
Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 19:20:02 +0100
Fwd Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 08:06:54 -0400
Subject: Re: Closing The Record On Mortellaro - Harney


>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 10:06:27 -0500
>Subject: Re: Closing The Record On Mortellaro

>>From: Joe McGonagle <joe.mcgonagle.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2004 17:30:52 +0100
>>Subject: Re: Closing The Record On Mortellaro

>>I had in mind Max Burns, convicted drug dealer (more recent than
>>27 years ago!), who seems to have persuaded some of the more
>>gullible members of the UFO fraternity that he was not guilty as
>>charged. It will only be a matter of time before his "pending
>>appeal" excuse starts to wear a little thin, even amongst the
>>most gullible. I doubt it will be acknowledged as a decisive
>>defrocking when people realise the sheer ridiculousness of his
>>claims, the embarrassed parties will just quietly forget about
>>their outspoken support for him on this list and in other
>>forums.

>I appreciate the frank response and the naming of names (or a
>name anyway). What I objected to was what I took to be a
>suggestion that legions of ufologists and UFO-concerned persons
>out there wait to be exposed as lying weasels. My point was
>simply that there are unlikely to be any more (or any fewer) of
>them there than in any other group of randomly selected,
>fallible fellow humans.

If the proportion of "lying weasels" among ufologists is as high
as it evidently is among politicians then the number of truthful
ufologists must be rather small.


John Harney







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                            Zeta Reticuli I & II?

From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 16:39:08 EDT
Fwd Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 08:08:07 -0400
Subject: Zeta Reticuli I & II?


Any data if any of our top telescopes that can see as far back
as the 'Big Bang' have turned an eye on the celebrated Zeta
Reticuli binary system?

Searching for planets that is.


Best,

Greg








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              Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers - Koch

From: Joachim Koch <lists.nul>
Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 22:11:51 +0100
Fwd Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 08:10:01 -0400
Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers - Koch


>From: Chris>Parr <cparr.nul>
>To:<ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 08:40:38 +0100
>Subject: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers

>It has been nine years since the Santilli Alien Autopsy
>footage had captured the imagination of the World.
>Controversy has always attached itself to the sensational
>footage and matters were not helped by Ray Santilli and
>his ambiguous tale of how he acquired the footage and
>refusal to provide a sample of the Kodak Reel.

>As far as I am aware, nobody has come forward and
>admitted any responsibility or association to hoaxing the
>Alien Autopsy footage.

>If the Autopsy footage was an elaborate hoax, then
>somebody in the World of Ufology must know the identity
>of the Creators. Surely it is time for a spectacular UFO
>revelation on this famous footage.


Hi Chris,

Sorry, you are a bit late, the thing is already done. The 'tent
footage' is a hoax and the 'autopsy' is a hoax. The whole thing
was a conspiracy because of the pressure caused by independent
researchers and the International Roswell Initiative on the Air
Force. It was meant to ridicule the subject in the view of the
public. Divide et impera.

Or is this a cheap way for you to fill your basket with all the
information you need for a publication by yourself?

All the best,

Joachim Koch
----------------------------------------------------

For more information about
*The International Roswell Initiative*
see:
http://www.kochkyborg.de








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                           Keyhoe Archives & UFOs

From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 22:56:29 +0000
Fwd Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 08:12:14 -0400
Subject: Keyhoe Archives & UFOs


The first issue of the Journal of UFO History (a publication of
the Donald E. Keyhoe Archives) is now in the mail to those who
have either ordered a sample copy or subscribed. For anyone
desiring more information, my web site:

http://www.hallrichard.com

has just been updated to include ordering information for the
Journal and for other books and materials, including some
special discounts.

Serious and scholarly historians, documentarians, investigative
reporters, and others with legitimate credentials are welcome to
visit the Archives by appointment. CNN, Ted Turner Network,
Discovery Channel, and others have done so. Grant Cameron was
welcomed, but failed to schedule the visit and notify me of his
arrival time, so found a dark house when he arrived. Richard
Dolan also was invited, but failed to follow through. Jan
Aldrich, Mike Swords, Wendy Connors, and others have been here.

If anyone on the list has questions about the holdings of the
DEK Archives, I will try to answer them.


 - Dick










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                      UK UFO Researcher Database 2001?

From: Roy Hale <roy.nul>
Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 00:58:40 +0100
Fwd Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 08:20:32 -0400
Subject: UK UFO Researcher Database 2001?


List,

Would Mr McGonagle like to publish his results on the following
set of personal questions, he wanted answers to, from UK UFO
researchers, in 2001 for a UK UFO Researcher Database?

http://www.ufoinfo.com/ufonewsuk/v01/0115.shtml

What was the purpose of such a database of UK UFO researchers?

Where is this database stored?

Does the web UFO community have access to the information on
such database?

-----

From: "Joe McGonagle" joe.nul

1. Name (this is not always obvious from your email address!)

2. Area(s) of activity (e.g. Author/Investigator/Webmaster/ List
administrator/Club committee member/enthusiast etc)

3. Special area of interest (e.g.
technology/earthlights/spiritual aspects/psychosocial
aspects/history) Geographical area of focus

4. Any published works that you are at least partially
responsible for (including books/ websites/papers/magazine
articles/TV/Radio)

5. How you became interested in ufology

6. When you first took an active role in ufology

7. Any positions held previously or currently in UFO
organisations (preferably with dates)

8. Membership of any UFO organisations including mail lists

9. Link to your personal/organisation web site, if any contact
details which you wish to make public (address/email/phone)
(These will only be included if you expressly state that you
want them to be)

10. Any pet theories whether you consider yourself to be a
believer/sceptic/debunker/disbeliever in the E.T.H. any areas of
ufology that you particularly like or dislike

11. Favourite authors/books

12. Some indication of how active you are currently

13. Possibly a nice mugshot of yourself!


Please feel free to pass on the content of this post to anyone
else involved actively in UK Ufology (emphasis on UK) for their
submission to the "rogues gallery" that I might have omitted!
Joe McGonagle.

-----


Roy








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               Re: Another Metallic Sound On ISS - Scheldroup

From: John Scheldroup <jschel.nul>
Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 21:14:54 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 08:22:38 -0400
Subject: Re: Another Metallic Sound On ISS - Scheldroup


>From: James Smith <zeus001002.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 11:43:11 -0400 (GMT-04:00)
>Subject: Re: Another Metallic Sound On ISS

>>From: Eleanor White <eleanor.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2004 18:28:56 -0400
>>Subject: Re: Another Metallic Sound On ISS

>>>From: Norman
>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 20:03:19 -0500
>>>Subject: Another Metallic Sound On ISS

>>>"Metallic Sound Heard Again By Space Station Crew"

>>>http://edition.cnn.com/2004/TECH/space/04/02/space.station.ap/index.html

>>>What's causing this metallic sound? ET or ghosts?

>>As someone who has been harassed by high tech equipment which is
>>used to loudly rap, rattle, vibrate, push, levitate, bend, and
>>project sound from any point in my home and the homes of
>>hundreds of colleagues, there is a third option - the high tech
>>criminals who wreck innocent people's lives for some yet to be
>>determined reason.

>>(The equipment vs. ghost/poltergeist signature is unmistakeable
>>and I don't have time to debate that.)

>>Once in a great while they will show off to non-targets.  One of
>>the members of this forum has witnessed their handiwork. They
>>could be "having a little fun" with the space station.

>In this case however I think its likely more mundane.....

>>From the 4/3 ISS Status report:

>"The cause for the anomalous noise heard yesterday during the
>morning daily planning conference has not been isolated yet.

>Past records indicate that at the time of noise ventilation fan
>#2 in the Service Module crew cabin cycled On/Off, and that the
>same fan also cycled On/Off at the time of the first occurrence
>of the "whumping" noise on 11/26/03.

>Thruster activity for attitude change occurred yesterday over an
>hour later than the time of the noise."


Or maybe a little solar flare activity, lots of photons which
bombard the structure make noise to. A thing that is already
falling to earth's gravity. I wonder how many structures do we
know built so large with that amount of exposure have not shown
to be making noise outside.

A vacuum is a likely pointer to vibrations or pounding sounds on
a hull, if every hull should resonate at a certain frequency
like in plank, which element has the right constant to show
itself having a special resonancy, that orbits the earth,
possibly with effects of other things related to earth.

As I do wonder if there is not, some vibrational thing here
where the sun hits the thing, the thing causes noises outside ?

I don't know, but I retro back on something of Planck absorbsion
onto a structure and its resonance.


John








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               Professor Rallies Pilots For Meteor Site Watch

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 19:23:35 -0700
Fwd Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 08:24:07 -0400
Subject: Professor Rallies Pilots For Meteor Site Watch


Source: Towsville Bulletin - Australia

http://townsvillebulletin.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,7034,9203013%255E14787
,00.html

06-04-04

Professor Rallies Pilots For Meteor Site Watch
By HAYLEY SEENEY

A TOWNSVILLE astronomer has encouraged light aircraft pilots to
keep watch for a possible impact sites from a meteor grouping
that fell to earth last week.

James Cook University astronomy centre director Associate
Professor Graeme White said eye witness accounts put one impact
site about 60 nautical miles north-northeast of Mount Isa.

North and northwest Queensland were treated to a meteor
spectacular last Wednesday night, as meteorites entered the
earth's atmosphere and burst into fireballs.

Passengers and pilots on two light aircraft flying from Mount
Gordon, also known as Gunpowder, at the time of the event
reported seeing the fireballs go past their aircraft.

"I'd like to get someone from the local aeroclub to go out there
and have a look," Professor White said.

"I thought about it over the weekend. It'd be good if someone
who's got a light plane to fly out there, or someone who is
going out there to divert from their normal activities to look
at the place.

"It (the impact site) would be fairly distinctive, it will be a
big spot of black and brown or a hole in the ground."

Keen to hear from anyone who may be able to fly by the area,
Professor White said they would need to take an exact location
using a global positioning system and perhaps a photo. He would
then be eager to mount an expedition to the site.









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             Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers - Gates

From: Robert Gates <RGates8254.nul>
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 23:25:27 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 04:55:31 -0400
Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers - Gates


>From: Chris Parr <cparr.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 08:40:38 +0100
>Subject: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers

>It has been nine years since the Santilli Alien Autopsy footage
>had captured the imagination of the World. Controversy has
>always attached itself to the sensational footage and matters
>were not helped by Ray Santilli and his ambiguous tale of how he
>acquired the footage and refusal to provide a sample of the
>Kodak Reel.

Chris,

The above is so, so true, all stories, tales and what nots
aside, the lack of any film is an issue and the various Santilli
stories and tales didn't help either.

>As far as I am aware, nobody has come forward and admitted any
>responsibility or association to hoaxing the Alien Autopsy
>footage.

A little speculation is in order. Whether real or not, Ray made
money on it.

Years ago there was a discussion about how much money Santilli
made off of Fox, not to mention world wide distribution blah
blah As I recall my estimate was in the 800K plus range, however
at one point that number was stated to be between 3-6 million
dollars. There was also a story that a German FX company was the
one who actually did it.  If it was real or faked, Volker
probably got a cut, Ray got a cut, and (assuming it was a fake)
the FX company got a cut. Probably signed non disclosure
agreements...supposedly Ray is under some kind of NDA with
Volker, or at least that is one of the stories. So real or fake,
with NDA people get to keep the money they made on it.


Cheers,

Robert








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                         Re: E.T. Call Home - McCoy

From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy.nul>
Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 20:39:31 -0700
Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 04:56:58 -0400
Subject: Re: E.T. Call Home - McCoy


>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 08:37:44 -0700
>Subject: E.T. Call Home

>Source: Redding.com

>http://www.redding.com/news/stories/20040404lo039.shtml

>04-04-04

<snip>

In my Years of flying around the Western US, dropping slimy red
mud on burning trees from Antique Aeroplanes, I and my wife
toured Nevada, and Northern California in 1989, after I had
finished my First Fire season.

Now I am not attributing alieness to any specific person, but
there was a waitress at the diner at hat creek that gave us the
willies. no kidding. Nordic would be a compliment. My wife,
said:" She's a candidate for playing the 'ice queen' in 'the
Lion the Witch and the Wardrobe'."

Maybe the antenna is pointed in the wrong direction.


GT McCoy

There was a '59 Chevy El Camino involved too. never
seen one quite like it...








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              Re: Radio Search For ET Draws A Blank - Balaskas

From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul>
Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 23:58:20 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 04:57:59 -0400
Subject: Re: Radio Search For ET Draws A Blank - Balaskas


>From: Ray Dickenson <editor.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 00:37:13 +0100
>Subject: Re: Filers Files #15

>>From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 19:54:53 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
>>Subject: Re: Filers Files #15 - Balaskas

<snip>

>>Since we know for sure that there is at least one planet with
>>life (Earth), there have been many violent meteor/comet impacts
>>with the Earth in the past and recently published papers have
>>shown that organisms in rocks can indeed survive high levels of
>>radiation and the extremes temperatures of space, a simple and
>>logical conclusion is that all ETs in our galaxy, if they do
>>exist, originated on Earth!

>Not quite Nick, you're presuming that life originated here
>first. It could be the other way round - as many eminent
>scientists have suggested.

Hi Ray, Stanton, Frank, Everyone!

Truth should never be determined by the opinions of the majority
(science is not democratic) or what some powerful individuals or
institutions proclaim (intellectual tyranny or dictatorship?)
but on unbiased interpretations of all the facts even if they do
not support currently accepted theories or lead to unpopular
ones.

Sometime back in 2001, two of my friends, Michael, a skeptical
professional astronomer and Sue, a fellow member with MUFON
Ontario stayed behind to speak with Seth Shostak (then with the
SETI Institute) after his talk at York University to learn more
about his beliefs regarding UFOs and ETs. As we expected,
although Seth is a scientist, he was not well informed about
important UFO incidents and other scientific evidence that
strongly suggested ET contact had already been made and neither
did he seem much interested in learning more - a cardinal sin
for any true scientist, eminent or not.

Although I do not remember the exact things Seth mentioned, he
was willing to bet that sometime in the coming few years we will
make contact with an advanced ET civilization in our galaxy.

Seth's basis for believing this is the Drake Equation which,
depending on the value of the numbers one guesses for each of
the many variables, predicts the actual number of advanced ET
civilizations in our galaxy. Using the Drake Equation, many
astronomers including Seth suspect that there should be at least
100,000 advanced ET civilizations. Once SETI has had a chance to
listened in on 100,000 stars or more which should happen by the
time SETI's new Allen Telescope Array is completed in 2010 or
soon afterwards, it is then Seth expects our first contact with
an advanced ET civilization will be made.

Although this new radio telescope array is about 1/10 the cost
of the giant 100 meter single dish radio telescope in Green
Bank, West Virginia (which a team of us from Toronto were given
a tour of during our mini-expedition in search for new witnesses
of the "Mothman" in the Mount Pleasant, West Virginia area),
despite its massive size, it will still not be able to listen in
to more than just a very tiny fraction of all the promising
stars in our galaxy for signals from suspected ET civilizations.
A much more complete radio search for ETs in just our galaxy
alone is still far beyond our current technical capabilities -
 but even such a small scale attempt is better than no search at
all.

We admired Seth's strong non-scientific based faith and wished
him good luck.


Nick Balaskas








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                         3 Red Objects Over Calgary

From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO  <hbccufo.nul>
Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 21:05:40 -0700
Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 04:59:53 -0400
Subject: 3 Red Objects Over Calgary


Calgary, Alberta - Red Objects

Date:  April 04, 2004
Time:  Between 9:00 -11:00 p.m.

Number of witnesses: 1
Number of objects: 3
Shape of objects: red dots
Full Description of event/sighting:

I was in my hot-tub enjoying the night sky looking at planets
and stars and such when I noticed a faint red dot flying away
from me going west. At first I thought it was a plane but the
dot's red color didn't seem to flash, it retained it's colour
perfectly as it flew. It was when it started going back and
forth as it flew west that i knew it wasn't a plane or
helicopter. It was fairly low on the horizon so it was far yet
it sped back and forth fast. The speed and manuverability of it
stunned me. Then when I knew this thing wasn't explainable,
another two red dots flying in formation quickly joined up with
the first and they all sank below my line of sight because trees
were in the way. I hopped out of the tub and ran to where I
could see, but they were too far. All of this happened in around
6 seconds... these little dots were moving way too fast for any
vehicle I know of. I would be interested to hear if anyone else
might have seen this.


Thank you to the witness for the report.

Brian Vike
Director HBCC UFO Research
Home - Phone 250 845 2189
email: hbccufo.nul
Website: http://www.hbccufo.com






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                        Re: 'Flight License'? - McCoy

From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy.nul>
Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 21:08:52 -0700
Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 05:02:41 -0400
Subject: Re: 'Flight License'? - McCoy


>From: Terry Groff <terry.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 11:11:04 -0500
>Subject: Re: UFO 'Flight License'?

>>From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 20:30:54 -0800
>>Subject: Re: UFO 'Flight License'?

>>>From: Terry Groff <terry.nul>
>>>To: UFO UpDates <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 10:31:18 -0600
>>>Subject: UFO 'Flight License'?

<snip>

>I don't think they are actually selling pilots licenses but
>rather passenger licenses (sic). 5 Euros sounds kinda cheap to
>me though. They must think that a lot of people will buy them.

>I would buy one as a novelty, much like I did when I "named" a
>star from the International Star Registry. I have no illusions
>they would really name a star after me and I would have no
>illusions that I would get to ride in a homemade "UFO".


No, I didn't think they were, but I was having fun with what the
US Federal Aviation Agency would've done with a legit UFO
License.-Along with any given Govenmental World Wide Agency.

My own gripe is the FAA has spent 50 years re-inventing the
wheel, and has just begain to see that time marches on,
along with technology.

Honestly, we are just being exposed to Eurodiesels  in
aviation,(in general, not just the US) and high efficentcy gas
turbines in Jets. I can't wait. Certifying a Cloaking Device
however.....


GT McCoy







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   Apr > Apr 7

                        Rupert Idaho Cluster Sighting

From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO <hbccufo.nul>
Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 21:20:30 -0700
Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 05:04:19 -0400
Subject: Rupert Idaho Cluster Sighting


Report received: April 5, 2004

Also the witness provided three graphics, showing what the whole
event looked like. What the person illustrated is very
interesting. The graphics can be found at
http://www.hbccufo.com/index.php under the Rupert, Idaho Cluster
Sighting

Rupert, Idaho

Date:  1999
Time:  Approx: 10:00 p.m.

We were driving north to our farm on a dark moonless night.  I
saw a white smudge in the sky to the northwest more west than
north and another almost north.  They looked almost alike.  When
we got home I ran into the house, got the binoculars and ran
back out to look at the smudges. The one to the west was a group
of round white moonlike objects with fog surrounding them.  By
this time clouds had moved over the north group.  As I watched,
all the "little moons" moved slowly to form one larger "moon".
The "moon"  was still surrounded by a kind of fog.  After a few
minutes it all disappeared. I have three drawings I made on my
computer.

Additional Information Below:

We live 6 miles north of Rupert, Idaho (50 miles east of Twin
Falls, Idaho, southern Idaho USA)

First looked at it through binoculars at about 10:00 p.m.. It
was sometime in about 1999.

The only way I can describe "smudge" is that it looked like a
elongated very small chalk line in the sky....not round like a
star.  The first computer drawing shows both objects.  The right
group disappeared behind clouds before I got out with the
binoculars.

They were like a cluster of white round grapes surrounded by a
wisp of fog when I first saw them through the binoculars.  Fog
was white like a thin cloudy material.

The object was about an inch at arms length with unaided eye.

The computer drawings show about the amount of small round moon-
like objects....can't remember counting them but there were many
of them...some larger than others.

They didn't move in any way except to very slowly gather into
one moon-like object.

My husband and I were the only witnesses on our farm. Didn't
hear of any other witnesses.

Weather conditions: clear dark skies and a little cool.

No aircraft seen or heard....no sound.

No beams of light coming from them and no tails or trails.


Thank you to the witness for the report.

Brian Vike
Director HBCC UFO Research
Home - Phone 1 250 845 2189
email: hbccufo.nul
Website: http://www.hbccufo.com






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                     Ripped-Off Map Image By German Site

From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 01:24:25 -0700
Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 05:07:07 -0400
Subject: Ripped-Off Map Image By German Site


Hello all:

Can somebody who reads German help me here?

Looking thru the logs for my website, I found this web page
deep-linking one of my UFO maps. There is _no_ indication that
they give credit to the source (my work and site), nor a link
back.

Please check this out whether you can read the text or not:

http://www.faktinfo.de/forum/messages/16818.htm

I can't read German. I don't know if they are giving credit or
taking credit (20 years work by the way) or something else
entirely.

"Deep Linking" means that they simply present the image as if it
were theirs, but link only to the image on MY site (not the text
so no credit possible, not even a site link for Google to find)
and I pay for the extra bandwidth. Faktinfo saves these charges
by _not_ copying the map and putting it up on their Host ISP.

That rubs salt into the wound, and is considered beneath
contempt in ethical web circles.

Can someone browse around the "Faktinfo" site and see just what
their act is? Its starting to look like another Kumar job, but I
can't be sure yet.

Any help would be kindly appreciated. I know what to do with
deep-linked images (chuckle!) but I want to know whole story on
Faktinfo.com first.


Best wishes

- Larry Hatch








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                              'UFO' Over Ottawa

From: Chris Rutkowski <rutkows.nul>
Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 09:14:45 -0500 (CDT)
Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 05:09:55 -0400
Subject: 'UFO' Over Ottawa


U.F.O. Seen Over Ottawa

Kris Sims
Tuesday, April 6, 2004

Several residents of the Ottawa area reported seeing an
Unidentified Flying Object Monday Night.

One caller to CFRA 580 said it was a large, bright, white ball
of light that travelled northeast at around 8 o'clock.

Denis Legault has been sky-watching for 27 years with the Ottawa
Valley Astronomy Group, he says the object was probably a piece
of space rock that was too large to burn up right away in the
upper atmosphere. Legault says the particles of dust and rock
create a brilliant flash of light as they ignite and
disintegrate in the lower atmosphere.

Ottawa ranks second in Canada for the number of UFOs reported
each year. Vancouver reports the most.








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                    Re: Zeta Reticuli I & II? - Friedman

From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul>
Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 09:32:04 -0300
Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 05:11:09 -0400
Subject: Re: Zeta Reticuli I & II? - Friedman


>From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 16:39:08 EDT
>Subject: Zeta Reticuli I & II?

>Any data if any of our top telescopes that can see as far back
>as the 'Big Bang' have turned an eye on the celebrated Zeta
>Reticuli binary system?

>Searching for planets that is.

I checked some while back and the two stars are being monitored
by one of the Southern Sky Observatories.

They are _not_ a binary in the usual sense of the word. They are,
according to Hipparcos satellite data, a bit over 39 light years
from here and about 1/8th of a light year apart from each other
or about 9000 au. Unless a star has a big planet close to the
star it takes a long time to determine the wiggle. Earth size
planets are really too small to be detected with the wiggle
technique.


Stan Friedman
www.v-j-enterprises.com/sfpage.html









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               Re: Closing The Record On Mortellaro - Lehmberg

From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul>
Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 07:36:34 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 05:13:25 -0400
Subject: Re: Closing The Record On Mortellaro - Lehmberg


>From: John Harney <magonia.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 19:20:02 +0100
>Subject: Re: Closing The Record On Mortellaro

>>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 10:06:27 -0500
>>Subject: Re: Closing The Record On Mortellaro

>>>From: Joe McGonagle <joe.mcgonagle.nul>
>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2004 17:30:52 +0100
>>>Subject: Re: Closing The Record On Mortellaro

<snip>

>If the proportion of "lying weasels" among ufologists is as high
>as it evidently is among politicians then the number of truthful
>ufologists must be rather small.


...Perhaps even as small as the number of genuine skeptics in
proud CSICOPia, sir.

alienview.nul

EXPLORE "AlienViewGroup" at its HostPros URL.
http://www.alienview.net


JOHN FORD RESTORATION FUND -- John will be released eventually.
He'll need a tax free cash stake to get on his feet. Let's put
one together for him; the bigger it is -- the more attention he
gets. It could have been you. E-mail for detail. $450.00 pledged
-- $200.00 collected!

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite. What others see
from afar, I leave far behind me." - Giordano Bruno, scourged by
the scabrously specious scurrilous.








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               Re: Closing The Record On Mortellaro - Friedman

From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul>
Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 09:35:57 -0300
Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 05:14:54 -0400
Subject: Re: Closing The Record On Mortellaro - Friedman


>From: John Harney <magonia.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 19:20:02 +0100
>Subject: Re: Closing The Record On Mortellaro

>>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 10:06:27 -0500
>>Subject: Re: Closing The Record On Mortellaro

>>>From: Joe McGonagle <joe.mcgonagle.nul>
>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2004 17:30:52 +0100
>>>Subject: Re: Closing The Record On Mortellaro

>>>I had in mind Max Burns, convicted drug dealer (more recent than
>>>27 years ago!), who seems to have persuaded some of the more
>>>gullible members of the UFO fraternity that he was not guilty as
>>>charged. It will only be a matter of time before his "pending
>>>appeal" excuse starts to wear a little thin, even amongst the
>>>most gullible. I doubt it will be acknowledged as a decisive
>>>defrocking when people realise the sheer ridiculousness of his
>>>claims, the embarrassed parties will just quietly forget about
>>>their outspoken support for him on this list and in other
>>>forums.

>>I appreciate the frank response and the naming of names (or a
>>name anyway). What I objected to was what I took to be a
>>suggestion that legions of ufologists and UFO-concerned persons
>>out there wait to be exposed as lying weasels. My point was
>>simply that there are unlikely to be any more (or any fewer) of
>>them there than in any other group of randomly selected,
>>fallible fellow humans.

>If the proportion of "lying weasels" among ufologists is as high
>as it evidently is among politicians then the number of truthful
>ufologists must be rather small.


By the same token if the proportion of "lying weasels" among
ufologists is as high as it evidently is among UFO debunkers,
then the number of truthful ufologists must be rather small. But
the ufologists tend to focus on evidence and the UFO debunkers
don't.

Stan Friedman








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             Re: Documentary Series 'UFO Under Investigation' -

From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul>
Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 07:32:14 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 05:16:59 -0400
Subject: Re: Documentary Series 'UFO Under Investigation' -


>From: Chris Rutkowski <rutkows.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 09:36:16 -0500 (CDT)
>Subject: Re: Documentary Series 'UFO Under Investigation'

>>From: Jacques Poulet <jpoulet.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2004 09:13:52 -0400
>>Subject: Documentary Series 'UFO Under Investigation'


>>The new series 'UFO Under Investigation' starts on Canada's
>>Space Channel, Saturday April 10 at 19:00. See:

>>http://www.spacecast.com/shows/specials/ufo_under_investigation.asp

>>-----

>>Stars
>>Christian R. Page as Host
>>For more than 50 years, the UFO phenomenon has fed many rumours.
>>Hallucinations? Hoaxes? Misidentifications? For the first time
>>ever, a journalist specializing in "unexplained" phenomena takes
>>a critical look at these so-called alien visitations."

>I was filmed for three of the episodes, which I've seen now in
>both French and English.

>Congratulations to Christian and Jacques for their work on the
>series.

>It offers a different perspective to ufology than the more usual
>"Murrican" approach, and viewers will likely find it refreshing.
>The re-enactments are well-done, and the images behind the
>voice-overs are visually interesting, in a narrative style.


Yes - I agree with you, and submit that you are making way too
kind an assessment of "the more usual ['merkin... - you had too
many syllables [g].] approach."  Our attitudes have been shaped
by convenience and arrogance down here and we have gotten into
the habit of being told what to 'be' so we have more time for
the convenience, and told how to "think" so there is more
justification for the arrogance (...all dollar driven...). You
can hardly think more of us when you realize that our whole
national ethic (as it is defined by the ruling class of neo-
 cons) is concerned with style over substance, conformance over
courage, and docile employees over dauntless explorers...

I apologize, myself, for the ufological drivel we generally
produce down here, expose it as the non-nourishing fruit of our
national disease, and suggest that Canada intellectually invade
the US, at once, in a preemptive action to inject a little much-
 needed rationality and perspective or imagination to our
ufological ball-fumbling.  Too many of you guys pat us on the
shoulder when you should be kicking us in the ass.  Power is
~not~ served by adulation, and is best served by criticism.

Moreover, the United States (which does not 'own' ufology in any
just fashion), by its nature and prerequisite... is at the
bottom tier of serious ufology, and has ~indeed~ gone out of its
way to queer it for the whole planet!  You guys should be more
critical of that...

alienview.nul

EXPLORE "AlienViewGroup" at its HostPros URL.
http://www.alienview.net


JOHN FORD RESTORATION FUND - John will be released eventually.
He'll need a tax free cash stake to get on his feet. Let's put
one together for him; the bigger it is - the more attention
he gets. It could have been you. E-mail for detail.
$450.00 pledged - $200.00 collected!

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite.
What others see from afar, I leave far behind me."
- Giordano Bruno, scourged by the scabrously specious scurrilous.








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   Apr > Apr 7

                    Re: Zeta Reticuli I & II? - Lehmberg

From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul>
Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 07:46:14 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 05:18:12 -0400
Subject: Re: Zeta Reticuli I & II? - Lehmberg


>From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 16:39:08 EDT
>Subject: Zeta Reticuli I & II?

>Any data if any of our top telescopes that can see as far back
>as the 'Big Bang' have turned an eye on the celebrated Zeta
>Reticuli binary system?

>Searching for planets that is.


...And hey, is it a *binary system*, or not?  Mr. McGaha (noted
amateur astronomer and master-debater) was stridently insistent
in the TSUM debate tape that it was, and therefore would obviate
all chances of intelligent life evolving in or around same.....

Was Mr. McGaha right about at least _one_ thing in 2.5 hours of
mewling, strutting, and posturing?

alienview.nul
www.AlienView.net

Photo Album: http://www.alienview.net/AVAlbum.htm
(send picture as attachment to alienview.nul)
Splash page:   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AlienViewGroup/
Radio Show & Splash Page:  http://www.alienview.net/alienviews.htm
Radio Show Archives: Out of Service at this time...
http://www.alienview.net/N2Ltune.html -- The music in me...








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               Re: Why I Support Alien Abduction Study - Clark

From: Jerome Clark <jkclark.nul>
Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 07:50:57 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 05:19:57 -0400
Subject: Re: Why I Support Alien Abduction Study - Clark


>From: John Harney <magonia.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 19:14:32 +0100
>Subject: Re: Why I Support Alien Abduction Study

>>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 11:48:27 -0400
>>Subject: Re: Why I Support Alien Abduction Study

>>>From: John Harney <magonia.nul>
>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 19:34:10 +0100
>>>Subject: Re: Why I Support Alien Abduction Study

>>What experts?

>>Those suffering the "abduction syndrome" if it can be called
>>that, desperately seek answers.

>Many of those who suffer the abduction syndrome undoubtedly seek
>answers. However, most of those who study abductees obviously do
>not want answers, they want to keep it mysterious (think book
>contracts, lecture tours, TV chat shows). Many of them either
>attack or ignore those who suggest sensible explanations.

Ah, that wonderfully smug pelicanist phrase: "sensible
explanations." We all know what _they_ are, don't we? The ones
that John Harney and his fellow flappers agree with. It's
usually a joke when someone says, "You can always tell a
brilliant guy; he agrees with you." Apparently, John actually
_believes_ it.

As for the _other_ explanations - the "nonsensible" ones that
give Harney, et al., the vapors - those are favored by shifty,
greedy people who know better but just "want to keep it
mysterious" for monetary gain and attention. They couldn't
_possibly_ harbor honorable motives, like, say, John Harney and
all his feathered friends squawking in the avian choir.

If Harney's words sound like lazy, sleazy ad hominem to you,
too, perhaps John can redeem himself. Since "most of those who
study abductions obviously do not want answers," only money and
self-aggrandizement, it should be - as a Wodehouse character
would express it - the work of an instant for John to provide us
with names. Let's find out exactly whom he means, and while he's
at it, let's see some evidence behind the arm- waving - actual
evidence, as opposed to a mere statement of faith such as we've
seen so far - that "most" abduction researchers are in it for
the cash and the glory.

You can start with your next posting, John. I can hardly wait.


Jerry Clark








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                       UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 9 Number 14

From: John Hayes <webmaster.nul>
Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 13:53:05 +0100
Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 05:22:33 -0400
Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 9 Number 14


Posted on behalf of Joseph Trainor.

<Masinaigan.nul>
==========================

      UFO ROUNDUP
Volume 9, Number 14
April 7, 2004
Editor: Joseph Trainor

E-mail: Masinaigan.nul
Website: http://www.ufoinfo.com/roundup/


CANADA'S PRIME MINISTER
ENCOUNTERS A UFO

      "What fate the stars hold for Paul Martin," Canada's
prime minister, "may be unknown.  But one thing's
certain."  Martin "recently had a high-flying encounter
with a UFO."
      "Martin and his entourage were circling above Alberta
(province) when their Challenger jet came within an
otherworldly whisker of a luminous object streaking across
the night sky."
      "In a report to Edmonton air traffic controllers, the
pilot of Martin's plane noted seeing 'a very bright light
falling' through the air, with smoke trailing, while the
aircraft passed over Suffield, Alta. on Sunday, March 21,
2004."
      "People on two other planes saw the plummeting
object, which was travelling 'at a very fast rate of
speed' from a high altitude, says the report."
      "A copy of the one-page form, entitled UFO
Procedures, was provided to Canadian Press by Chris
Rutkowski of the Winnipeg-based group, Ufology Research of
Manitoba (UROM)."
      "Rutkowski, a longtime tracker of UFO sightings,
obtained the report from the (Canadian) federal Transport
Department, which routinely forwards him data on
unidentified flying objects."
      "So was an extraterrestrial envoy trying to convey a
message to Canada's new leader?"
      "Unlikely, says Rutkowski.  What those on Martin's
plane saw that night was almost certainly a chunk of a
comet or an asteroid that entered Earth's atmosphere and
burned up."
      "An amateur astronomer in Calgary captured the
blazing streak in a video.  And it appears one or more
such fireballs were seen by people across the Prairies and
as far east as Quebec."
      "In any event, it's unclear if Martin or his aides
even glimpsed the object that crossed the plane's path.  A
spokesperson for the Prime Minister's Office said he had
no additional information."
      "Ufology Research of Manitoba publishes an annual
study of UFO sightings in Canada, including many cases
involving meteors.  The group's 2003 survey found a record
673 reports of unidentified flying objects made to various
organizations and investigators in Canada."  (See the
Canadian Press of March 20, 2004, "Martin has close
encounter with UFO."  Many thanks to Jim Hickman for this
newspaper article.  Be sure to visit Jim's Web site at
http://www.thehickmanreport.com)


THOUSANDS SEE FIREBALL
CROSS QUEENSLAND SKIES

      "Residents of the Outback town of Winton," in
Australia's Queensland state, "saw a flash 'like 50,000
floodlights' as a large fireball crashed to Earth
somewhere in central Queensland late yesterday (Wednesday,
March 31, 2004)."
      "Authorities are trying to track down the source of a
large fireball seen in the sky over the state's north and
central west."
      "Speculation has ranged from space junk to a
satellite."
      "'We only know it wasn't an aircraft,' a spokesman
for the Australian Parks and Reserves Organization said."
      "But, in Winton, Elsa Nelms and her partner, Graeme
East, had front row seats for the spectacular light show,
sitting on their verandah at dusk, talking business with a
friend."
      "'Suddenly, there was this flash, it's the only way I
can describe it--it was so bright it was a white flash and
it lit everything up,' Ms. Nelms said."
      "'It was like somebody had turned on 50,000
spotlights.'"
      "'We all looked up in the sky, and there was a white
smoke trail coming from the northeast--like a familiar
smoke trail but it was too high to ever be an aircraft.'"
      "Ms. Nelms said she had gone into her backyard to
lock her dog in when the house shook."
      Winton, Qlnd. is located about 600 kilometers (360
miles) northwest of Brisbane.  (See The Age of Melbourne
for April 1, 2004, "Fireball crashes to Earth in
Queensland."  Many thanks to Trevor Griffett for this
newspaper article.)


UFO BUZZES MOTORISTS
NEAR GAWLER, S.A.

      On Saturday, March 27, 2004, at 8:15 p.m., eyewitness
T.B.W. reported, "I was driving north in my car and was
probably around half a kilometer (0.3 miles) from the
intersection" with Main North Road in Templers, a small
town near Gawler, South Australia.  "The object flashed
across the intersection at the top of a small rise from
east to west.  It lit up the top of the trees, but the
glow from it did not reach the road.  The object appeared
to be 20 meters (66 feet) off the ground, judging by the
height of the trees."
      "The road is straight.  A truck was travelling ahead
of me, and the object caused him to brake suddenly,
although he drove off quickly and didn't stop.  I pulled
over and got out.  Other people who were in their garden
came out and stood with me in the road, while it flew off
to the west over farmland, keeping level with the ground
as far as I can tell.  There was no sound from the
object."
      "It seemed to be round like a ball, glowing white
like phosphorescence.  There was a crescent moon in the
sky, and the object seemed to be about the size of a
newly-risen full moon."
      Gawler, S.A. is about 70 kilometers (42 miles) north
of Adelaide, the state capital.  (Email Form Report)


UFO FLOTILLA SIGHTED
IN TABIO, COLOMBIA

      On Wednesday, March 24, 2004, at 9 p.m., twenty
orange UFOs suddenly appeared over Tabio, a town located
30 kilometers (18 miles) northeast of Bogota, the capital
of Colombia.
      "Residents of the town observed the objects for 30
minutes," reported William Chavez, director of Bogota's
Contacto OVNI research group.  "The UFOs were described as
'bright lights, orange in color, and approximately 20 of
them.'"
      "Eyewitness Esteban Montenegro contacted our group
and said he had successfully videotaped the UFOs as they
maneuvered in the night sky over Tabio.  He also sent us a
close-up image of a large, powerful orange light, with
smaller white lights circling its middle like a belt.  The
video has been turned over to Contacto OVNI and the
Engineering Department of the University of the Andes in
Bogota for more detailed analysis."
      "Our group has received other videos which showed
similar UFOs hovering over the peak of Cerro de Huaika
(mountain) in northern Colombia."  (Muchas gracias a
William Chavez del grupo Contacto OVNI para esto informe.)


THREE ORANGE UFOs SEEN
IN KUALA LUMPUR, MALAYSIA

      On Wednesday, February 25, 2004, at 11 p.m.,
eyewitness Abdullah S. "was sitting at a coffee shop in
Kuala Lumpur," the capital of Malaysia "when I saw three
orange lights flying in unison.  Two broke away and flew
all over the sky.  They travelled at a very high speed.
Then one joined the other, and they broke away again.
Then they both flew upward, becoming smaller and smaller
until they disappeared.  I would say I had them in view
for about 20 minutes.  I think they were at the same
flight level that airliners fly (35,000 feet or 10,500
meters--J.T.).
We have had UFOs in Malaysia before, but these were quite
striking.  They departed to the west over Kelang."  (Email
Form Report)


TWO NIGHT SAUCERS SEEN
IN BRADENTON, FLORIDA

      On Friday, March 26, 2004, eyewitness Jill E.
reported, "At approximately 7:50 p.m., while trying the
five-planet alignment over the moon, my 13-year-old son
and I noticed two saucer-like shapes heading towards us,"
as they were facing Palma Sola Bay in Bradenton, Florida
(population 49,504), located 20 miles (32 kilometers)
south of St. Petersburg.
      "They were appearing to be racing one another but
side by side, sometimes crossing each other's path," Jill
reported, "They were quite large, no blinking lights, no
sound at all, greyish in color."
      "When they were positioned just under the moon, they
turned sharply and headed south.  It looked like they
briefly slowed down over the baseball park (the park
lights were on--J.E.) and then rapidly headed southbound,
remaining next to one another but occasionally crossing
paths."
      "While they were side by side, they were in identical
formation and going at the same speeds.  One or twice,
when they crossed, it seemed that they got out of sync but
quickly went side by side again.  We watched them head
south until we could see them no longer from our balcony."
      "The sky was quite clear, some small, light clouds,
the temperature approximately 73 degrees (Fahrenheit), a
light breeze coming off the bay."
      "The shape of the crafts was almost almond, with some
type of haze surrounding them, moving very, very rapidly.
There were some distant planes in the sky, but none were
moving at any rate close to the speed these two crafts
were going."
      "I had a small map of the planet alignment that I was
holding up and trying to relate Jupiter and Saturn to the
left of the moon.  My son first saw the objects and yelled
at me to put the paper down.  They approached from the
west directly towards us but underneath the moon and
definitely closer to us than the planets and the stars.  I
would say that they were much larger than a plane that's
far away, and in the width especially.  I would venture a
guess that they were maybe around an altitude of 40,000
feet (12,000 meters).  They darted up and down and
horizontally in front of us for less than a minute and
then darted towards the baseball park, where they didn't
go directly over but more to the north side.  Almost as if
they hovered and then sharply flew north for a moment and
then took a serious turn and headed south very quickly."
      Jill described the saucers as "greyish, illuminated
from inside, with no lights or trails, just surrounded by
a brownish haze of sorts."  (Email Form Report)


BLACK HELICOPTERS STALK
TWO UFOs IN ELK, WASH.

      On Sunday, March 28, 2004, Holly McGrath reported,
"Beginning around 9 p.m., me and my boyfriend noticed two
low-flying objects moving north on the horizon" in Elk,
Washington state.  "The objects were lights, and they
appeared to be red and white.  They spun circles, ying and
yang type formations, as well as covering enormous
distances vertically.  The animals in the woods were going
nuts."
      "We began to experiment by flashing our front
floodlights at the object and, to our amazement, they
responded."
      "Two black helicopters were present and circling the
area on (March) 28th.  They also appeared to witness our
communication as their flight pattern abruptly changed.
The helicopters were not seen yesterday (Thursday, April
1, 2004)."
      "We were not home on (March) 29th but last night
(April 1, 2004) they were present and responding without
fail, although they continue to grow distant and appear as
yellowish stars now until they move."
      "We called friends to witness the phenomenon, and now
the witness tally is four.  Their (UFO) movements are
becoming harder to observe as their maneuvers appear
smaller the further away they get."
      Holly advises ufologists in the USA's Pacific
Northwest to "look to the Big Dipper (constellation Ursa
Major--J.T.) due north above the horizon and to the left
of the moon for yellowish stars that perform tight circles
in the sky.  There was a third object behind our home, but
it is no longer visible."  (Email Form Report)
(Editor's Comment:  Holly's sighting of the UFOs in the
vicinity of Ursa Major is very interesting.  UFOs have
been seen consistently disappearing in the region of space
between the stars of "the Big Dipper's handle."  This has
led some ufologists to speculate that there is an alien
stargate in a geosynchronous orbit above Earth in that
location, where the UFOs enter hyperspace on their way
home.)


CROP CIRCLES FOUND
ON NAMIBIA'S COAST

      "South African botanists say they have failed to
explain the mysterious round patches of bare sandy soil
found in grassland on Namibia's coastal fringe."
      "They looked at possible causes of the 'fairy
circles'--radioactive soil, toxic proteins left by
poisonous plants, and termites eating the seeds."
      "But tests failed to support any of these theories
for the 'rings,' which measure 2 to 10 metres (6.6 to 66
feet) in diameter."
      "For now, they say, they are left with 'fairies' to
explain the phenomenon."
      "Lead scientist Gretel van Rooyen is now exploring
the theory that, somehow, toxic elements are deposited in
the shape of a circle, making it impossible for plant life
to get established there, Agence France Presse reported."
      "'But even if we find them, how came they there is
the next problem--for the moment, we're left with the
fairies,' Ms. van Rooyen, a botanist at the University of
Pretoria, said."
      "Tests of soil samples taken from 'fairy circles'
found all to be negative for radioactivity, and desert
plants were successfully grown in the lab on soil on which
only milk bushes had grown."
      "As for termites, the team dug trenches up to 2
metres deep in and around the circles, but found no sign
of these insects or their nests."
      "'Fairy circles' occur in a broken belt in the pro-
Namib region, from southern Angola to the Orange River in
South Africa and have become so famous that they are
included in various (African) tours."  (See the Agence
France Presse report for March 31, 2004.  Many thanks to
Robert Fischer for this news story.)


From the UFO Files...

1954: A MYSTERIOUS HUM AT
           CHALFONT ST. GILES

      "At Chalfont St. Giles, and at Leigh-on-Sea, Essex,
and possibly at other sites in Great Britain...there have
been unexplained noises which seem to come from
underground."
      "These noises were first heard in September, 1953.
They became very audible around Christmas, 1953.  The
sound was described as a persistent humming of deep
vibration and regular pulsation.  On occasion, it kept
people awake at night when the sounds intensified to a
noise like a plane 'revving up' its engines, or a motor
truck climbing a hill."
      So wrote Harold T. Wilkins in his book, Flying
Saucers Uncensored.  Fifty years ago, during April of
1954, one of Wilkins' correspondents visited Chalfont St.
Giles, Bovingdon and Hemel Hempstead to further look into
those mysterious reports.  This is what he found:
      "I can say with fair certainty that I do hear the
sound, but only faintly.  I hear a sound in various parts
of that area which I certainly do not hear elsewhere, and
it is always the same sound, and distinguishable from
other sounds."
      "It sounds to me like a very heavy machine working a
long way off, and it has a regular pulse of vibration,
which suggests that the machine passes through a regular
phase of vibration, or else there is a regular periodic
build-up of sound waves.  The unchanging pitch indicates
that the machine always runs at the same speed.  I know of
no normal machine which could do this, day and night for
months."
      "One cannot tell the direction of the sound.  It is
simply there.  One may lose it by moving a short distance
from a point where it is audible.  Go back to that point,
and the sound is still there."
      "Another odd feature is that Mrs. Craig, in
particular, and several other folk have searched for miles
in every direction, on foot and by car, no one has ever
succeeded to getting close to the cause of it."
      "It seems completely elusive.  One can go away from
it, but not apparently approach it beyond a certain limit.
Either it must be very deep below the surface or else--a
wild surmise--it might be located in a fourth dimension!
As a matter of fact, I do not get the impression that it
is subterranean in origin.  More like an effect of 'over
the hills and faraway.'  It is an oddly disturbing sound.
It is harsh, daunting and chilling."
      "I have listened for it at Bovingdon, near Hemel
Hempstead, in the still of night, but definitely it is not
there.  There must be some reason for it being heard in
the Chalfont area."
      "Near the bungalows are two large dells, close to a
lane.  I managed to enter one, but saw nothing very much.
And the sound did not appear any louder there.  I could
not enter the other dell, because of the perpendicular
sides bordering on the lane.  Also, both dells are on
private ground (private property in the USA--J.T.),
limiting one's movement."
      "This lane itself is one of the points where the
mysterious sound is audible.  It is in a small valley.
Going over a footpath up the slope, I lost the sound at
the top.  Returning down the slope, I got it again."
      "Mrs. Craig sometimes hears it very loudly, as if,
she says: 'It was going up and down the walls of the
room,' but even then, the sound always appears to come
from outside...from over there."
      Like the more recent cases at Round Knob, Illinois
and Kokomo, Indiana, here in the USA, the source of the
mysterious hum at Chalfont St. Giles in 1954 was never
found.  (See Flying Saucers Uncensored by Harold T.
Wilkins, Citadel Press, New York, N.Y., 1955, pages 161 to
167.)

      Well, that's it for this week.  Join us next time for
more UFO, Fortean and paranormal news from around the
planet Earth--and occasionally Mars--brought to you by
"the paper that goes home--UFO Roundup."  See you then.

UFO ROUNDUP: Copyright 2004 by Masinaigan Productions, all
rights reserved.  Readers may post news items from UFO
Roundup on their Web sites or in news groups provided that
they credit the newsletter and its editor by name and list
the date of issue in which the item first appeared.

E-Mail Reports to: Joseph Trainor <Masinaigan.nul>
or use the Sighting Report Form at:

http://www.ufoinfo.com/forms/form_sighting.htm

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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   Apr > Apr 7

              Re: UK UFO Researcher Database 2001? - McGonagle

From: Joe McGonagle <joe.mcgonagle.nul>
Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 14:15:15 +0100
Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 05:25:06 -0400
Subject: Re: UK UFO Researcher Database 2001? - McGonagle


>From: Roy Hale <roy.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 00:58:40 +0100
>Subject: UK UFO Researcher Database 2001?

>List,

>Would Mr McGonagle like to publish his results on the following
>set of personal questions, he wanted answers to, from UK UFO
>researchers, in 2001 for a UK UFO Researcher Database?


Hello Roy, List.

Roy has reminded me to repeat the post to UpDates at:

http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2002/mar/m02-020.shtml

with some updated information, and to request more assistance

Please see below.

>http://www.ufoinfo.com/ufonewsuk/v01/0115.shtml

>What was the purpose of such a database of UK UFO researchers?

Please see the text at the end of this reply.

>Where is this database stored?

It is available at:

www.ufology.org.uk

Select "Articles" from the menu bar at the top, then click on
"individual" under the heading "Biographies".

>Does the web UFO community have access to the information on
>such database?

Please see above.

<snip>

I have been disappointed with the lack of response from the UK
UFO community to this request. It seems that many of them think
that they are already famous (to quote one respondent, "I think
people know me already."), or they are somewhat reluctant to
inform the public who they are dealing with for some unknown
reason. Others have promised submissions, but due to other time
commitments have so far been unable to. I am also disappointed
with a similar request for group histories.

It's not all negative though, some individuals and groups have
sufficient pride in their work so as not to try and hide it
under a bushel, and I wholeheartedly thank all of them for their
contributions.

The project is still ongoing, I am currently working on three
profiles of people who are no longer active in ufology, but it
takes time and I am also working on other projects at the same
time. I would appreciate any further contributions from UK
ufologists or groups, either to me or to the ufologyinuk
webmaster, Chris Whitlock (admin.nul).

Below is a basic mailshot suggesting the sort of information
that groups or individuals may like to include in any
submissions, and the background to the request:

As many of you already know, I have been engaged in obtaining
profiles of people and groups that have been or still are
playing a part in British ufology.

I would be much obliged if you could produce a group history
article and/or personal profile to contribute towards this
project. I have provided a list of the sort of thing that you
may like to include for each type of profile below. Please send
any articles to me at joe.nul

Early results of this project can be viewed at:

http://www.ufology.org.uk

(Select "Articles" from the menu bar at the top, then click on
"individual" under the heading "Biographies".)

The reasons for this interest are:

1. The history of British ufology is relatively undocumented.

2. Witnesses/experiencers may find it useful to know something
about the people or groups that they may be inclined to contact.

It is my intention to make as much information as possible about
UK individuals and groups available at a single site on the
internet. Chris Whitlock (webmaster of www.ufology.org.uk) has
always endeavoured to support British ufology through his site,
and it was a natural choice for an internet-based focal point
for British ufology.

I am conscious that some people to not have internet access, and
I sought out a non-commercial printed media outlet for this
group of people. I have selected EYE magazine, edited by Chris
Evers and Gary Anthony for this purpose, as it is very UK-
centric, contains articles of a generally high quality, and is
reasonably priced. Contact details for EYE magazine are
available from me on request, or you can find them in a review
of the magazine at www.ufology.org.uk.

Typical Group profile information that may be included:

-Date of formation

-Names of founding members

-Details of group ancestory (eg formed by amalgamation of groups
a,b, & c/ splinter from group z)

-Geographical operating area of group

-topics covered by group (UFO only, or UFO/Paranormal, etc)

-names of current office holders

-group mission statement

-any code of practice in use by the group

-approximate membership of group

-summary of regular activities, possibly including a schedule of
future events, meeting venue and times, etc.

-details of any high-profile cases which the group has been
involved in

-contact details of the group

Typical individual profile information can include:

-Name

-UFO organisation membership and any positions held

-Location (County/town)

-Geographical area of interest

-Paranormal area of interest

-When and why you became interested in ufology

-How long you have been an active participant, or if inactive,
reason for leaving the field, and approximate date that you
became inactive

-Any specific aspects of ufology which interest you

-Details of any cases/projects that you have been involved in

-Details of any current projects/cases you are involved with

-Position statement (eg pro/anti ETH, agnostic, sceptic) with
rationale for your position if you like.

-Any particular likes/dislikes about the UK ufology scene

-Perhaps details of your favourite UFO author/book

-Maybe your views on the future of British ufology

If anyone has any queries about the project, please feel free to
email me.


Regards,

Joe McGonagle








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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   Apr > Apr 7

             Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers - Shell

From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
Date: Tue,  6 Apr 2004 08:28:31 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 05:26:53 -0400
Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers - Shell


>From: Joachim Koch <lists.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 22:11:51 +0100
>Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers

>>From: Chris Parr <cparr.nul>
>>To:<ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 08:40:38 +0100
>>Subject: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers

>>If the Autopsy footage was an elaborate hoax, then
>>somebody in the World of Ufology must know the identity
>>of the Creators. Surely it is time for a spectacular UFO
>>revelation on this famous footage.

>Sorry, you are a bit late, the thing is already done. The 'tent
>footage' is a hoax and the 'autopsy' is a hoax. The whole thing
>was a conspiracy because of the pressure caused by independent
>researchers and the International Roswell Initiative on the Air
>Force. It was meant to ridicule the subject in the view of the
>public. Divide et impera.

I'm a die-hard skeptic, and one of the things I'm particularly
skeptical about is a claim that something is a hoax.  As I've
said before, because of adverse publicity and the attention this
sort of thing generates from our UFO Brothers on the fringe, a
person is often highly motivated to change their story and say,
"Oh, it was just a hoax I did in my back yard."  Just to get rid
of those pesky UFO kooks. So when it comes to hoax claims, I
need just as much verifiable evidence as I would for a
"positive" claim.

You're implying that some branch of the government was involved
in producing the film. Can you give us a few more specifics?
You have a motive (sort of), but that's about it.

>Or is this a cheap way for you to fill your basket with all the
>information you need for a publication by yourself?

If somebody could put together a comprehensive review of the
case that includes all the pros and cons, maybe along with some
new information from Santilli, I'd sure like to read it.  This
is just the kind of thing that sometimes gets dropped and then
researchers end up scrambling around 30 years later, after the
principals have died, trying to piece the story together from
fragments.  It would be nice to have a review before the major
players vanish.







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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   Apr > Apr 7

             Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers - Shell

From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 08:40:11 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 05:28:11 -0400
Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers - Shell


>From: Steven Kaeser <steve.nul>
>Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 12:27:48 -0400
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers

>>From: Chris Parr <cparr.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 08:40:38 +0100
>>Subject: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers

>>If the Autopsy footage was an elaborate hoax, then somebody in
>>the World of Ufology must know the identity of the Creators.
>>Surely it is time for a spectacular UFO revelation on this
>>famous footage.

>There are a few people still following this story, but very few.
>I believe that Philip Mantle could probably provide the best
>description of where we are today as far as the AA "film" is
>concerned, but others might disagree. One individual came
>forward to acknowledge his involvement in the creation of the
>"Tent Sequence", which was never actually broadcast in the U.S.

There was a very brief segment of that film shown on American
TV, although it may have been via a British programme broadcast
on Discovery Channel. I remember seeing it. The person said
Santilli ordered it but then rejected it because it didn't look
realistic enough. He admitted that he didn't know who did the
actual autopsy footage. The individual sounded sincere, and he
was right about the tent footage. It was really pretty bad. But
again, we don't know the whole story here. Was it an attempt by
Santilli to "sweeten the pot" with his own manufactured footage?
It's not unheard of.

>but appeared on many of the videos that were sold. However,
>this person's story had its own problems and was based on
>annecdotal testimony, so it didn't really resolve much.

>Ray still has an autopsy "film" that has never been released or
>shown publicly, and I would suspect that he'll be coming out of
>the woodwork someday to offer that for review and purchase. But
>without the cameraman to back up the images, we're never going
>to get beyond the question of their validity.

Santilli has to meet people at least half way if he expects
anyone to take him seriously, particularly after all the
debunking that's gone on. He's really the only one who can
debunk the debunking. If he can.

>I understand that Robert Kiviat is back in the Producer's chair
>and perhaps he'll update the AA "film" investigation in one of
>his upcoming productions.

Yeah, but didn't Kiviat include it in a show he produced called
"World's Greatest Hoaxes," or something like that?

I remain fascinated, as I have from the beginning. It's very
interesting how the whole Alien Autopsy has played out. Yes,
it's about time for a review of the case.







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   Apr > Apr 7

                            UFO Seen Over Ottawa

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 06:45:04 -0700
Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 05:29:52 -0400
Subject: UFO Seen Over Ottawa


Source: Newstalk Radio CFRA 580

U.F.O. Seen Over Ottawa
Kris Sims
Tuesday, April 6, 2004

Several residents of the Ottawa area reported seeing an
Unidentified Flying Object Monday Night.

One caller to CFRA 580 said it was a large, bright, white ball
of light that travelled northeast at around 8 o�clock.

Denis Legault has been sky-watching for 27 years with the Ottawa
Valley Astronomy Group, he says the object was probably a piece
of space rock that was too large to burn up right away in the
upper atmosphere. Legault says the particles of dust and rock
create a brilliant flash of light as they ignite and
disintegrate in the lower atmosphere.

Ottawa ranks second in Canada for the number of UFOs reported
each year. Vancouver reports the most.







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             Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers - Groff

From: Terry Groff <terry.nul>
Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 09:44:49 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 05:31:42 -0400
Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers - Groff


>From: Joachim Koch <lists.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 22:11:51 +0100
>Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers

>>From: Chris Parr <cparr.nul>
>>To:<ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 08:40:38 +0100
>>Subject: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers

>>It has been nine years since the Santilli Alien Autopsy
>>footage had captured the imagination of the World.
>>Controversy has always attached itself to the sensational
>>footage and matters were not helped by Ray Santilli and
>>his ambiguous tale of how he acquired the footage and
>>refusal to provide a sample of the Kodak Reel.

>>As far as I am aware, nobody has come forward and
>>admitted any responsibility or association to hoaxing the
>>Alien Autopsy footage.

>>If the Autopsy footage was an elaborate hoax, then
>>somebody in the World of Ufology must know the identity
>>of the Creators. Surely it is time for a spectacular UFO
>>revelation on this famous footage.

>Sorry, you are a bit late, the thing is already done. The 'tent
>footage' is a hoax and the 'autopsy' is a hoax. The whole thing
>was a conspiracy because of the pressure caused by independent
>researchers and the International Roswell Initiative on the Air
>Force. It was meant to ridicule the subject in the view of the
>public. Divide et impera.

>Or is this a cheap way for you to fill your basket with all the
>information you need for a publication by yourself?


Joachim,

You are actually a bit early. No one has proven whether this is
fake or real. The jury is still out on this although it's my
understanding that not all of the evidence, either way, has been
presented.


Terry







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   Apr > Apr 7

                    Re: Zeta Reticuli I & II? - Balaskas

From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul>
Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 12:29:29 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 05:32:25 -0400
Subject: Re: Zeta Reticuli I & II? - Balaskas


>From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 16:39:08 EDT
>Subject: Zeta Reticuli I & II?

>Any data if any of our top telescopes that can see as far back
>as the 'Big Bang' have turned an eye on the celebrated Zeta
>Reticuli binary system?

>Searching for planets that is.

Hi Greg!

With our current technology and the current techniques employed,
only very large planets orbiting other stars can be discovered.
Some soon to be tried techniques from the Earth's surface (eg.
interferometry, etc.) and from space (eg. photometric, etc.)
hold promise that the much smaller Earth-like planets will be
detected in the coming years.

There was much excitement when a team of astronomers including
Artie Hatzes announced the discovery of a large planet orbiting
very close to one of the two stars of Zeta Reticulli (see one of
my earlier posts to UFO UpDates below).

http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2000/nov/m14-
015.shtml

To explain why so many very large gaseous planets were
discovered orbiting so close around other stars, it was assumed
that they must have slowly migrated to those locations after
they were formed much further out. Since all planets are thought
to orbit in the same plane around stars, this would have meant
that smaller Earth-like planets orbiting in the so-called
habitable zone around Zeta Reticulli would have long since been
drawn into these large planets and destroyed as they migrated
inwards towards thier "suns". In short, any ET civilizations
around at least one of these two Zeta Reticulli stars would have
long since left in search of other homes.

Fortunately, this discovery of a large planet in orbit around
Zeta Reticulli was not supported by further data and was quickly
withdrawn. So there are still good reasons to believe that our
nearest ET neighbours in space, whom I suspect paid us a
personal visit back in 1961, are from Zeta Reticulli.

This Thursday afternoon at York University, Prof. John Caldwell
(who taught the graduate level on 'Extrasolar Planets' which I
audited a few years ago) will be reviewing the following paper:

OBLIQUITY VARIATIONS OF TERRESTRIAL PLANETS IN HABITABLE ZONES
K. Atobe, et al. 2004, Icarus, volume 168, issue 2, p223-236
http://aries.phys.yorku.ca/~rfinger/jc040408.pdf

The authors of this paper conclude that for known extrasolar
planetary systems, about 80% will have enough instability in
either orbital or obliquity parameters to render any terrestrial
planets that might be present in the habitable zones as
unsuitable for life. In short, even if Earth-like planets are
eventually discovered in these habitable zones, it would be very
unlikely that any ET civilizations had time to evolve. This
further supports the growing views among astronomers that worlds
like our Earth with conditions ideal for life as we know it are
very, very rare indeed!

If the future Allen radio telescope array listens to more than
just specific radio frequencies but at the total electromagnetic
output originating from Zeta Reticulli, they may find that this
EM "noise" is very similar to that orginating from Earth and
will thus reveal the presence of ET technological civilizations
like our own.


Nick Balaskas







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                Re: Closing The Record On Mortellaro - Kaeser

From: Steven Kaeser <steve.nul>
Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 12:24:26 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 05:34:13 -0400
Subject: Re: Closing The Record On Mortellaro - Kaeser


>From: John Harney <magonia.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 19:20:02 +0100
>Subject: Re: Closing The Record On Mortellaro

<snip>

>If the proportion of "lying weasels" among ufologists is as high
>as it evidently is among politicians then the number of truthful
>ufologists must be rather small.

I would add that ufologists are probably just as entrenched in
their belief structure as politicians, and both groups tend to
build on their own beliefs while failing to really listen to
other viewpoints.

You can't expect to hear "truth" from a politician, who by his
very nature is telling constituents what they want to hear. No
one would support a politician who actually explained that taxes
will have to be raised, or services cut, to balance the budget.
So does the problem reside with the politician, who doesn't tell
the truth, or his constituents, who don't want to hear it?


Steve







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               Professor Chris French On Abduction Phenomenon

From: Nick Pope <nick.nul>
Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 19:26:19 +0100
Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 05:36:47 -0400
Subject: Professor Chris French On Abduction Phenomenon


List,

As promised, here's the text of the interview that I conducted
with Professor Chris French, concerning the scientific study
into the alien abduction phenomenon. The study's being carried
out by psychologists from Goldsmiths College, University of
London. This interview was first published in the January 2004
issue of UFO Magazine.

Best wishes,

Nick Pope

-----

Much has been written about the alien abduction phenomenon, but
little scientific research has been done on the subject. Some
work has been undertaken in the USA, but little has been done in
the UK. All this is set to change in 2004, as a project to
investigate the phenomenon gets under way. Psychologists at
Goldsmiths College, University of London, are to look into this
controversial area. The study is to be undertaken by Professor
Chris French, Head of the Anomalistic Psychology Research Unit
at Goldsmiths Psychology Department. UFO Magazine caught up with
Chris French, and asked him about this work.

UFO Magazine: How did you first become interested in the alien
abduction phenomenon?

Chris French: My main area of psychological research is in what
has become known as "anomalistic psychology". This is the area
of psychology that attempts to investigate the kinds of bizarre
experiences that many people have reported throughout history
and in all known cultures but which have, until recently,
received scant attention from academic psychology. The
Anomalistic Psychology Research Unit
(http://www.gold.ac.uk/apru) was set up to focus research in
precisely that area. I have always had an interest in psychic
and related phenomena and used to read books on UFOs and stuff
from an early age. Although I started off as a firm believer in
the paranormal, it is no secret that I have become much more
sceptical over the years. Indeed, I currently co-edit The
Skeptic, the UK's longest running sceptical publication. By the
time the abduction phenomenon really took off in the 1980s, I
was no longer convinced that UFOs represented anything to do
with extraterrestrial intelligence - but still fascinated by
this multifaceted phenomenon which clearly requires an
explanation.

UFO Magazine: What are your current views on abductions?

Chris French: Although I am a "sceptic", I am open-minded enough
to admit that I could be wrong. So it is possible that some,
perhaps all, of these experiences really do reflect contact with
some type of extraterrestrial or transdimensional intelligence.
The problem is that none of the evidence put forward in support
of the ET hypothesis is compelling - there are always
alternative explanations. This does not, of course, prove that
the alternative explanations are the correct ones, but it does
make it legitimate to ask if we might gain some real insight
into the phenomenon by searching for other kinds of explanation.
I am a psychologist and it is natural for me to think in terms
of possible psychological explanations. Let me make it very
clear, however, that I certainly do not share the views of
uninformed sceptics who dismiss the whole phenomenon by assuming
that anyone who reports such experiences is either "stupid, mad,
or a liar." The evidence to date clearly refutes such a crude
approach as a general explanation. Whatever is going on in these
cases, it is much more interesting from a psychological point of
view than this dismissive approach would suggest.

UFO Magazine: What made you decide to undertake this study?

Chris French: Essentially, because there are still so many
unanswered questions. I do not think that either "believers" in
the ET hypothesis or "sceptics" could honestly claim that they
have definitively proven their case. There are lots of
interesting psychological factors that people have discussed as
being possibly relevant to explaining the phenomenon but
relatively few attempts to gather relevant empirical data. We
intend to help in rectifying that situation.

UFO Magazine: Can you give our readers an overview of the study?

Chris French: There are essentially three main aspects to the
study. First, we aim to administer various questionnaires and so
on that will provide data relating to the various psychological
factors that have been put forward as being relevant. In each
case, we will collect data from both a sample of abductees and a
control sample matched on such factors as gender and age. This
part of the study will basically attempt to follow up previous
studies that have often produced somewhat conflicting findings.
The second and third aspects of the study are completely novel
and follow up the findings of a recent Australian study. It was
reported that abductees report a much higher level of
experiences of a wide range of paranormal phenomena than the
general population. So the second strand of our project is to
administer some basic tests of psychic ability. If we actually
managed to show higher levels of psychic ability in abductees
than matched control participants, this would represent a major
challenge to any kind of explanation in terms of conventional
psychological approaches! But even if we do not find any
evidence of psychic ability with the tests we use, we accept
that this may just reflect a poor choice of test on our part. So
the third strand is a detailed interview with our participants
regarding their abduction experience itself along with any other
paranormal experiences they may have had. This will give a us
lots of useful information in itself, but will also inform us in
producing other tests of psychic ability in follow up studies. I
should emphasise that we very much see this study as exploratory
and we do expect to produce a definitive explanation on the
basis of the data we will collect. We intend to follow up this
phase of the research with further investigations in the future.

UFO Magazine: What are your timescales? When do you start, when
do you finish, and when will you publish your results?

Chris French: We have already started setting up the project.
Since October 2003, Rachel Fox has been assisting me in
preparing materials, setting up equipment, publicising the
project, and recruiting participants. In January 2004, Julia
Santomauro will begin actually collecting data. We will
hopefully have enough data within a few months to allow us to
carry out our analyses and draw some initial conclusions by the
end of July 2004. We then hope to present our findings at
relevant conferences and submit the results for publication.

UFO Magazine: Have you consulted with UFO researchers in drawing
up your plans for this study?

Chris French: We have indeed. We are really grateful to many
people for their support and input on this project, especially
James Basil, Nick Pope, Judith Jaafar, and Malcolm Robinson.
Needless to say, these people may not share my own view on the
most likely explanation for this phenomenon but what I think we
all share is a genuine desire to gain a better understanding of
what is really going on.

UFO Magazine: We understand that you're still looking for more
abductees to take part in the study. How should they get in
touch with you?

Chris French: Yes, we are still looking for more abductees to
take part. Any of your readers who have had such experiences and
want to discuss the possibility of taking part should contact
Julia Santomauro on 020 7919 7171, extension 4389, or email us
at apru.nul

UFO Magazine: Will abductees be able to take part using
pseudonyms, and can you give some assurances about
confidentiality?

Chris French: It is absolutely fine by us if people would prefer
to use pseudonyms but we can assure all participants that, even
if they choose to give us their real names, confidentiality is
absolutely guaranteed.

UFO Magazine: Some abductees will be understandably nervous
about getting involved, especially given your reputation as a
sceptic. What would you say to such people?

Chris French: I fully appreciate why some abductees might feel
that way. There would be no point in me pretending that I am not
a sceptic regarding the ET hypothesis as my views on the subject
are quite widely known. Having said that, I am always ready to
admit that I might be wrong. I have deliberately taken steps to
guard against the possibility of my own views biasing the
outcome of this study in any way. For example, I am
collaborating with people who do not share my views - including
some experiencers, whose input on the project has been
invaluable. Dr Michael Thalbourne, a leading parapsychologist
from the University of Adelaide, is also involved. If the
results of our study show, for example, that abductees have
psychic abilities, then that is what we will report. I can
assure any readers who are considering taking part but feel
nervous about doing so that it is most emphatically not our
intention to belittle the experiences of those taking part.
Whatever the ultimate explanation of the alien abduction
experience, it is clearly a very profound and meaningful
experience to those who have it and we respect that.

UFO Magazine: Is there anything else that you'd like to say
about the study?

Chris French: I would like to thank the Bial Foundation of
Portugal for providing funding to support this project. As you
might imagine, raising funds for such an investigation has not
been easy given the generally dismissive attitude of the wider
scientific community towards such phenomena.

UFO Magazine: We wish you and your team every success in this
work. Once you've published the results of this study, will you
give another interview or write an article for UFO Magazine, so
as to brief our readers on your findings?

Chris French: Thanks for your interest and support. I'll be
happy to keep your readers informed of the outcome of our study.







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                Re: Closing The Record On Mortellaro - Velez

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 14:41:32 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 05:38:27 -0400
Subject: Re: Closing The Record On Mortellaro - Velez


>From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 16:26:47 -0600
>Subject: Re: Closing The Record On Mortellaro

>>From: Joe McGonagle <joe.mcgonagle.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 18:47:05 +0100
>>Subject: Re: Closing The Record On Mortellaro

>>>From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul>
>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 05:42:09 _0600
>>>Subject: Closing The Record On Mortellaro

>>>One Man's Opinion On The Mortellaro Affair

>><snip>

>>I suggest that you retain the text from this epic, Alfred. You
>>assuredly will be able to use most of it again when others are
>>decisively defrocked.

>Thing is? They're not _all_ defrock-able as I suspect you
>believe is the case, Sir, so I'm not worried, overmuch, that it
>will be getting used with any degree of frequency. And on the
>subject of those remaining decidedly non-defrocked?

>John Velez.....

>I've done John a huge disservice, contributed to his turmoil and
>travail, treated him - without any justification as it turned
>out - as an enemy, and likely contributed (minimally?) to his
>decision, directly or indirectly, to leave a field that is much
>better for him having been involved with it, than not! Yea and
>verily!

>When I returned to UpDates after my senseless, stillborn, and
>insentient romp with Mortellaro, I was welcomed back by John
>(and Errol) with such warm collegiality that it was truly
>astonishing! I'm not a major player in this 'thing' we're in, by
>any means, so there was nothing to be gained by bringing me back
>on board - nothing at all. But he/they did, with openness and
>selfless encouragement. I was moved to tears.....

>I want to apologize, John, for any inconvenience I may have
>caused you, recant every cross word that I, EVER, wrote to you,
>and state publicly that anyone trash talking John Velez in my
>presence does so at their literary peril.

>John? I'm sorry. Truly and sincerely, I'm sorry. Recharge and
>come back, soon. I'm just keeping your spot warm for you.


Hi Alfred,

Thank you. I hope you know that an apology wasn't necessary.

"Every time I try to get out... they pull me back in!"
Michael Corleone, Godfather III

Now, back to lurking and my retirement!

John Velez  ;)







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              Re: Why I Support Alien Abduction Study - Reason

From: Cathy Reason <CathyM.nul>
Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 23:04:58 +0100
Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 05:40:20 -0400
Subject: Re: Why I Support Alien Abduction Study - Reason


>From: John Harney <magonia.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 19:14:32 +0100
>Subject: Re: Why I Support Alien Abduction Study

>>From: Don Ledger <dledger.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 11:48:27 -0400
>>Subject: Re: Why I Support Alien Abduction Study

>>If this did turn out in the end to have some psyciatric source,
>>I'm sure those affected would welcome the news so that they
>>could then seek answers as to how to compabt it.

>What other possible explanation could there be? I have never seen
>any rational, coherent theory offered to describe the UFO
>abduction phenomenon except for those which atttempt to describe
>it in psychological and sociological terms.

Surely we should know better by now than to expect the universe
to conform to the limits of human imagination. I have yet to
hear of any coherent theory offered to explain the UFO abduction
phenomenon which wasn't largely speculative, and that includes
those which "attempt to describe it in psychological or
sociological terms".

I have no difficulty in imagining all kinds of coherent theories
to account for UFO abductions, some psychological, some
neurological and some completely off the wall, but all of them
are entirely speculative and none of them is supported by any
evidence worth the name. As to whether they're "rational" or
not, I have absolutely no idea what that is supposed to mean in
the current context.

>Condon's approach to the UFO problem certainly seemed somewhat
>biased, so that many people seem to forget that some of the
>investigators were obviously puzzled by some of the data they
>obtained. Also, I think it is worth quoting this paragraph from
>Condon's conclusions in his report, as so many UFO believers
>conveniently overlook it:

>"If [scientists] agree with our conclusions, they will turn
>their valuable attention and talents elsewhere. If they disagree
>it will be because our report has helped them reach a clear
>picture of wherein existing studies are faulty or incomplete and
>thereby will have stimulated ideas for more accurate studies. If
>they do get such ideas and can formulate them clearly, we have
>no doubt that support will be forthcoming to carry on with such
>clearly-defined, specific studies. We think that such ideas for
>work should be supported."

>This is surely what the Goldsmiths College team is trying to do,
>unlike the credulous mob who have nothing to offer but slogans,
>buzz-phrases and pseudo-scientific mumbo-jumbo.

I sympathize with this view to some extent, but I see a rather
obvious problem here. There are certainly many who could argue
(and I would for one) that "the credulous mob who have nothing
to offer but slogans, buzz-phrases and pseudo-scientific mumbo-
jumbo" is a pretty accurate description of the social sciences,
psychology and sociology included. This leads on to a problem
I've had with the whole "psychosocial" approach to Ufology for
some time now, which is that it appears to apply one standard of
evidence to Ufology itself (and a perfectly reasonable one in my
view) but another, altogether more lax, standard to the social
sciences from which it draws most of its concepts and evidence.
Worse still, it seems to me that the conceptual basis of
psychosocial Ufology has more to do with the cultural flotsam
which floats around the arts and humanities and has its origins
more in pseudoscientific doctrines such as psychoanalysis,
rather than anything that could honestly be called scientific.

As an aside, many perception researchers would argue that most
of the useful and important work on human perception (a field of
enormous relevance to Ufology) has actually been done in the
fields of psychophysics and neuroscience, and not in the
overarching computational/cognitive paradigm of traditional
psychology which seems to be far more prominent in the minds of
psychosocial Ufologists.

I've met Chris French and in my view he has a thoroughly
professional approoach to the work he does, but in the end he is
subject to the constraint of his discipline, which is that there
is an inherent tension between objectivity and thoroughness in
any social sciences research. The statistical methods of the
social sciences require one to formulate clear and narrowly
focused hypotheses in advance of having any data to speak of
(not that this is necessarily what happens, but it is always
what is supposed to happen) and this means that one doesn't have
the flexibility to follow the data in the way you seem to be
suggesting.  Human behavior covers large, unclosed sets of
possibilities and is anything but simple or deterministic, and
yet social science research assumes small, closed sets of
hypotheses and simple, deterministic dymanics -- unless you are
using a qualitative approach such as ethnomethodology, in which
case questions will arise as to how objective and scientific
your approach really is. From what I know of Chris French, he
won't be using ethnomethodology.


Cathy







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             Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers - Myers

From: Royce J. Myers III <ufowatchdog.nul>
Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 22:07:51 -0700
Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 05:41:53 -0400
Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers - Myers


>From: Joachim Koch <lists.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 22:11:51 +0100
>Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers

>>From: Chris Parr <cparr.nul>
>>To:<ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 08:40:38 +0100
>>Subject: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers

>>It has been nine years since the Santilli Alien Autopsy
>>footage had captured the imagination of the World.
>>Controversy has always attached itself to the sensational
>>footage and matters were not helped by Ray Santilli and
>>his ambiguous tale of how he acquired the footage and
>>refusal to provide a sample of the Kodak Reel.

>>As far as I am aware, nobody has come forward and
>>admitted any responsibility or association to hoaxing the
>>Alien Autopsy footage.

>>If the Autopsy footage was an elaborate hoax, then
>>somebody in the World of Ufology must know the identity
>>of the Creators. Surely it is time for a spectacular UFO
>>revelation on this famous footage.

>Sorry, you are a bit late, the thing is already done. The 'tent
>footage' is a hoax and the 'autopsy' is a hoax. The whole thing
>was a conspiracy because of the pressure caused by independent
>researchers and the International Roswell Initiative on the Air
>Force. It was meant to ridicule the subject in the view of the
>public. Divide et impera.

>Or is this a cheap way for you to fill your basket with all the
>information you need for a publication by yourself?


Promises from the folks at Kiviat Productions about the AA film:

http://www.rense.com/general49/making.htm

I've heard so many claims of people alleging to have the smoking
gun that will blow the AA film out of the water, but we have yet
to see it.

Guess we'll have to wait and see if anything Kiviat has to offer
will be compelling or just a ratings grabber.


Regards,

Royce J. Myers III
UFOWATCHDOG.COM
"Don't Trip On Your Open Mind"








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   Apr > Apr 7

                  Re: Another Metallic Sound On ISS - Grass

From: Robert Grass <RDGRASS.nul>
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 01:33:29 EDT
Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 05:43:51 -0400
Subject: Re: Another Metallic Sound On ISS - Grass


From: John Scheldroup <jschel.nul>
To: <ufoupdates.nul>
Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 21:14:54 -0500
Subject: Re: Another Metallic Sound On ISS

<snip>

>Or maybe a little solar flare activity, lots of photons which
>bombard the structure make noise to. A thing that is already
>falling to earth's gravity. I wonder how many structures do we
>know built so large with that amount of exposure have not shown
>to be making noise outside.

>A vacuum is a likely pointer to vibrations or pounding sounds on
>a hull, if every hull should resonate at a certain frequency
>like in plank, which element has the right constant to show
>itself having a special resonancy, that orbits the earth,
>possibly with effects of other things related to earth.

>As I do wonder if there is not, some vibrational thing here
>where the sun hits the thing, the thing causes noises outside ?

>I don't know, but I retro back on something of Planck absorbsion
>onto a structure and its resonance.


Having gone to college with several of the engineers at NASA, I
would believe that they have already considered radiative as
well as conductive heat transfer.

I am wondering about the possibility of an "echo" effect inside
the station proper. If a large enough particle of "space
debris" hit the station, would it cause an echo inside?


Robert







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                Re: Closing The Record On Mortellaro - Rimmer

From: John Rimmer <jrimmer.nul>
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 07:55:28 +0100
Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 05:45:07 -0400
Subject: Re: Closing The Record On Mortellaro - Rimmer


>From: John Harney <magonia.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 19:20:02 +0100
>Subject: Re: Closing The Record On Mortellaro

>>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 10:06:27 -0500
>>Subject: Re: Closing The Record On Mortellaro

>>I appreciate the frank response and the naming of names (or a
>>name anyway). What I objected to was what I took to be a
>>suggestion that legions of ufologists and UFO-concerned persons
>>out there wait to be exposed as lying weasels. My point was
>>simply that there are unlikely to be any more (or any fewer) of
>>them there than in any other group of randomly selected,
>>fallible fellow humans.

>If the proportion of "lying weasels" among ufologists is as high
>as it evidently is among politicians then the number of truthful
>ufologists must be rather small.

From my forty years of working in the so-called "public service"
I have found no reason to suspect that the level of "lying
weasels" among the general public is any less than among
politicians.

--
John Rimmer
Magonia Magazine
www.magonia.demon.co.uk/arc/00/newmag.htm








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              Re: Why I Support Alien Abduction Study - Kaeser

From: Steven Kaeser <steve.nul>
Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 12:52:46 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 05:47:50 -0400
Subject: Re: Why I Support Alien Abduction Study - Kaeser


>From: John Harney <magonia.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 19:14:32 +0100
>Subject: Re: Why I Support Alien Abduction Study

A few comments inserted below:

[snip]

>Many of those who suffer the abduction syndrome undoubtedly seek
>answers. However, most of those who study abductees obviously do
>not want answers, they want to keep it mysterious (think book
>contracts, lecture tours, TV chat shows). Many of them either
>attack or ignore those who suggest sensible explanations.

Your premise sounds good, but there's not that much money to be made in the
field, and while a few new books are introduced each year related to Alien
Abduction and the lectures continue, they rarely provide more than limited
supplementary income.

>>If this did turn out in the end to have some psyciatric source,
>>I'm sure those affected would welcome the news so that they
>>could then seek answers as to how to compabt it.
>
>What other possible explanation could there be? I have never seen
>any rational, coherent theory offered to describe the UFO
>abduction phenomenon except for those which atttempt to describe
>it in psychological and sociological terms.

If you limit yourself to a rational explaination based on what we "know" to
be true, then there is no other explanation. However, you've boxed yourself
in a bit, IMO.

>>If you did any reading on the subject or examined a few cases
>>you would know that John. I for one applaud anyone or any
>>institution such as the Goldsmiths College team that does a
>>controlled study-as long as they don't go in like Condon with
>>their conclusions already drawn. Who is paying for their study
>>incidentally?
>
>Condon's approach to the UFO problem certainly seemed somewhat
>biased, so that many people seem to forget that some of the
>investigators were obviously puzzled by some of the data they
>obtained. Also, I think it is worth quoting this paragraph from
>Condon's conclusions in his report, as so many UFO believers
>conveniently overlook it:
>
>"If [scientists] agree with our conclusions, they will turn
>their valuable attention and talents elsewhere. If they disagree
>it will be because our report has helped them reach a clear
>picture of wherein existing studies are faulty or incomplete and
>thereby will have stimulated ideas for more accurate studies. If
>they do get such ideas and can formulate them clearly, we have
>no doubt that support will be forthcoming to carry on with such
>clearly-defined, specific studies. We think that such ideas for
>work should be supported."

>This is surely what the Goldsmiths College team is trying to do,
>unlike the credulous mob who have nothing to offer but slogans,
>buzz-phrases and pseudo-scientific mumbo-jumbo.


I think there's a premise you've assumed that may be in error.
Most of the Abductees"that I've met have no interest whatsoever
in research into UFOs. After all, if someone believes they've
been abducted by aliens, there's no reason for them to worry
about the existance of UFOs or the petty arguments that
researchers get into.

I've also found that most abductees are really looking for peace
of mind and others to share their experience with in a
supportive way. I can't equate it to therapy because it doesn't
include a theraputic plan and often these groups aren't guided
in a theraputic fashion, but for most I think it's a form of
social group-therapy that appears to make them feel better.

Let me mention that I tend to have little direct contact with
abductees (with a couple of exceptions who are close friends)
and my involvement comes from my volunteer work with the Fund.

I would suggest that if there is enough interest in the subject,
one should look through the M.I.T. Abduction Conference
Proceedings:

http://archive.anomalies.net/archive/cni-news/CNI.0145.html

and one can only hope that the Goldsmiths College Team is going
to do their homework. If they approach this with the belief that
it has to be psychological or sociological, then they're coming
to the table with blinders on and that isn't good science
(IMHO).


Steve








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                      Re: Zeta Reticuli I & II? - Shell

From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 08:46:07 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 05:49:07 -0400
Subject: Re: Zeta Reticuli I & II? - Shell


>From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 16:39:08 EDT
>Subject: Zeta Reticuli I & II?

>Any data if any of our top telescopes that can see as far back
>as the 'Big Bang' have turned an eye on the celebrated Zeta
>Reticuli binary system?

Always the same problem. The light from the nearby star makes it
pretty impossible to see any nearby rocky, inhabitable planets,
if they're there.

The planets detected so far are big, and big enough to make the
star wobble a little bit because of the gravitational pull.
Little planets like ours don't really do that.

There is a newer telescope planned that will block out the
starlight, but it isn't built yet.








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                 Story On Quantum Physics And New Experiment

From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 04:11:52 EDT
Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 05:51:15 -0400
Subject: Story On Quantum Physics And New Experiment


Well, this experiment is new to us average joes:

http://physicsweb.org/article/news/8/4/1

How's it all fit in with what we know from the ongoing UFO
interactive cases?

Y'know, little by little it all seems like a lot of people are
going to be due alot of apologies :)


Best,

Greg







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              Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers - Parr

From: Chris Parr <cparr.nul>
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 09:15:50 +0100
Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 05:53:10 -0400
Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers - Parr


>From: Joachim Koch <lists.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 22:11:51 +0100
>Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers

>>From: Chris Parr <cparr.nul>
>>To:<ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 08:40:38 +0100
>>Subject: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers

>>It has been nine years since the Santilli Alien Autopsy
>>footage had captured the imagination of the World.
>>Controversy has always attached itself to the sensational
>>footage and matters were not helped by Ray Santilli and
>>his ambiguous tale of how he acquired the footage and
>>refusal to provide a sample of the Kodak Reel.

>>As far as I am aware, nobody has come forward and
>>admitted any responsibility or association to hoaxing the
>>Alien Autopsy footage.

>>If the Autopsy footage was an elaborate hoax, then
>>somebody in the World of Ufology must know the identity
>>of the Creators. Surely it is time for a spectacular UFO
>>revelation on this famous footage.

>Sorry, you are a bit late, the thing is already done. The 'tent
>footage' is a hoax and the 'autopsy' is a hoax. The whole thing
>was a conspiracy because of the pressure caused by independent
>researchers and the International Roswell Initiative on the Air
>Force. It was meant to ridicule the subject in the view of the
>public. Divide et impera.

>Or is this a cheap way for you to fill your basket with all the
>information you need for a publication by yourself?


Hello Joachim,

I may be a "bit late" on the definitive conclusions to the Alien
autopsy outcome because I haven't yet seen any real evidence to
support the claims. I did actually attend the August 1995 Bufora
Conference at Sheffield which was the original Public viewing of
the Autopsy Footage so I would have had plenty opportunity to
fill my basket with information if I were so inclined.

UFO researchers have focused their attentions on this case for a
considerably long time and I find it inconceivable that a couple
of pranksters can shoot the Autopsy Footage whilst giggling like
silly schoolboys and bouncing up and down. Gung Ho frivolity
would not have created the Tent Footage and it is a more
realistic proposition to believe that their prank element was
solely that of claiming responsibility to hoaxing the Alien
Autopsy Footage.

I don't see the World of Ufology giving up on the Roswell
Incident just because the USAF released information on Project
Mogul and the same principles must be applied to the Alien
Autopsy Footage.


Chris Parr







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                      Re: Zeta Reticuli I & II? - Brock

From: Rod Brock <humble98225.nul>
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 01:32:35 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 05:55:24 -0400
Subject: Re: Zeta Reticuli I & II? - Brock


>From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 16:39:08 EDT
>Subject: Zeta Reticuli I & II?

>Any data if any of our top telescopes that can see as far back
>as the 'Big Bang' have turned an eye on the celebrated Zeta
>Reticuli binary system?

>Searching for planets that is.


Well, a Google search for "Zeta Reticuli" gets you a giant list
of sites offering all manner and variety of information about
this binary system and its pasty inhabitants (even an alien
cookbook, apparently not entitled "To Serve Man...). For the
most part, it seems that the vast majority of the web-folk
responsible for these pages aren't too concerned about any sort
of "objective evaluation" of Zeta Reticuli, such as you inquire
about.

Still, seemingly against the odds, I found the information
copied at the end of this missive (source included).

As an aside, detection of a planetary system around a star
requires that a specific sort of gravitational "wobble" in the
star's proper motion through space be detected, the wobble being
indicative of an invisible companion. Once the mass of the
companion is calculated, it gets labeled a "planet" if it is
below the mass limit for a punky little star. Needless to say, a
lot of the "planets" being detected are of several Jovian
masses, and sometimes in really funky orbits, e.g., ultra-close
to the parent star. How much these "planets" actually resemble
planets in the sense that we think of the "terrestrial" planets,
is anyone's guess.

In the case of Zeta Reticuli, which already is a binary,
detecting a planet in an orbit around this system, or around one
of the component stars, would be rather more complex than in
other cases, if possible at all. I think. I haven't cracked my
textbooks on this in ages.

It is also possible in some cases to image an "accretionary"
disk around a star, as was done in the case of the relatively
nearby star, Vega. Such an accretionary disk is presumably a
mish-mash combo of asteroidal bodies, dust, primordial ices,
etc. That an accretion disk is present does not "prove" that
planets are present; it only suggests a potentiality for
planets.

You will note that the source below discloses that each
component star of Zeta Reticuli is type G, like the sun. I'm
sure lots of people who have never heard of the H-R diagram, and
know nothing about stellar evolution, will consider/have
considered this an "auspicious" sign; in that case, I'm not
inclined to disabuse them of their illusions.

-----

http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives/dec97/878841087.As.r.html

Re: What is it about Zeta Reticuli?
Area: Astronomy
Posted By: John Dreher, Staff Astronomy, SETI Institute
Date: Tue Nov 4 23:20:06 1997
Area of science: Astronomy
ID: 876141456.As


Hmm, well I did a quick pass through the various UFO sites, and
even a search on usenet, but found almost no mention of the
Zetans. Back in the old days, when I still read usenet, someone
posted a lot of 'zeta' stuff - sounded more delusional than even
the usual UFO spam. Zeta is still probably in my kill file.....

On the astronomy front, Zet 1 Ret (HD 20766) and Zet 2 Ret (HD
20807) are a wide binary system in the southern skies. Each
component is a G star much like the Sun. The binary orbit period
is long enough that planetary systems could be stable around
these stars; however, to the best of my knowledge, no one has
detected any planets so far. They are 36 lightyears from Earth.

Here at Project Phoenix , we observed Zet Ret while we were
deployed to the Parkes radio-telescope in Australia. We didn't
detect any radio transmissions.

-----

Regards,

Rod Brock







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             Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers - Morris

From: Neil Morris <neil.nul>
Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 10:52:38 +0100
Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 05:58:21 -0400
Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers - Morris


>From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 08:40:11 -0500
>Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers

>Yeah, but didn't Kiviat include it in a show he produced called
>"World's Greatest Hoaxes," or something like that?

>I remain fascinated, as I have from the beginning. It's very
>interesting how the whole Alien Autopsy has played out. Yes,
>it's about time for a review of the case.

You may like to have a look at:

http://www.v-j-enterprises.com/aafilm/aaindex.html

That's been up now for almost 2 years and where a number of
notable researchers and myself, put forward the pro and cons of
this case.


Neil








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                      Journal Of UFO History Prospectus

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 06:06:53 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 06:06:53 -0400
Subject: Journal Of UFO History Prospectus




Gentle Reader,

I came across the following - which for some reason did
not appear on this List.

ebk

-----


PROSPECTUS
(March 2004)

JOURNAL OF UFO HISTORY

Richard H. Hall, Editor

*A Publication of the Donald E. Keyhoe Archives
Brentwood, Maryland


The Journal will be published bimonthly (six issues per year)
and mailed First Class in the United States and Canada. Each
issue will contain 12 printed pages, including essays and
commentaries on various topics, plus one or more Xerographic
copies of historical documents or letters.

A sample copy is being assembled to illustrate proposed content,
and it will sell for $5.00. A one-year subscription is proposed
to cost $28.00; two-year subscription $50.00. However, no
subscriptions will be accepted until sufficient interest in the
Journal is demonstrated for it to proceed beyond the sample
issue (which will be Vol. I, No. 1). Special rates will be
determined for overseas subscriptions.

Subscribers will have access to selected documents from the
Donald E. Keyhoe Archives via e-mail attachment, and each issue
will offer additional material (historical articles, newspapers
clippings, letters) for sale at a nominal photocopying and
postage charge, and will include such things as abstracts and
bibliographies on various topics.. The Donald E. Keyhoe Archives
includes the following historical information:

... Eight boxes of 11-inch deep 5" x 8" file cards compiled by
Isabel Davis, Ted Bloecher, and Lex Mebane containing abstracts
and summaries of UFO sightings from all sources, from pre-
history through the 1950s. These include all the major sighting
waves during that period.

... Two 15-inch deep file drawers with 3" x 5" cards containing
UFO cases summaries from 1947 to 1960, compiled by Richard Hall.

... Correspondence by prominent people in the UFO field
including Donald E. Keyhoe, Edward J. Ruppelt, NICAP Board
Members, Coral Lorenzen, Dr. James E. McDonald, Rene Hardy,
Harold Fulton, Morris Jessup, Donald Menzel, and many others.

... Hundreds of magazine and journal articles about UFOs by
reporters, scientists, commentators, skeptics, and ufologists..

... U.S. and foreign government agency documents referring to
UFOs.

... A large collection related to the history of NICAP,
including internal documents, published press releases,
correspondence, and news stories..

... Files on UFO-related activities of such agencies as the
United Nations, Central Intelligence Agency, U.S. Air Force,
U.S. Congress, and National Aviation and Space Administration.


If you are interested in receiving the sample March-April, Vol.
I, No. 1, issue in April, please send $5.00 by check or money
order (PayPal accepted addressed to dh12.nul). After a
trial period through May or June, a decision will be reached on
whether to continue with publication and accept subscriptions,
and you will be notified.


Richard H. Hall
4418 39th Street
Brentwood, MD 20722-1021

E-mail: dh12.nul
(PayPal accepted)

*************************************************************

*Journal of UFO History

* The first issue of the/ Journal of UFO History/ (Vol. I, No. 1,
March-April 2004) is printed and in the mail. It will be published
six times a year. Richard H. Hall, Editor, Brentwood, Maryland.
Subscription rates are:

U.S. Canada, & Mexico: 1 year - $28.00; 2 years - $50.00 (First
                       Class mail)

South America:         1 year - $33.00; 2 years - $54.00 (Air Mail
                       Letter Post)

Europe:                1 year - $34.00; 2 years - $56.00 (Air
                       Mail Letter Post)

Australasia:           1 year - $35.00; 2 years - $57.00 (Air
                       Mail Letter Post)

Payment can be made by PayPal to Richard Hall addressed to
dh12.nul International money order or PayPal preferred
for overseas subscriptions. Personal checks accepted in the
United States.

Publications may request a review copy.

Richard H. Hall
4418 39th Street
Brentwood, MD 20722-1021
E-Mail: dh12.nul










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               Re: Ripped-Off Map Image By German Site - Groff

From: Terry Groff <terry.nul>
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 05:45:56 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 06:54:43 -0400
Subject: Re: Ripped-Off Map Image By German Site - Groff



>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 01:24:25 -0700
>Subject: Ripped-Off Map Image By German Site

>Can somebody who reads German help me here?

>Looking thru the logs for my website, I found this web page
>deep-linking one of my UFO maps. There is _no_ indication that
>they give credit to the source (my work and site), nor a link
>back.

>Please check this out whether you can read the text or not:

>http://www.faktinfo.de/forum/messages/16818.htm

>I can't read German. I don't know if they are giving credit or
>taking credit (20 years work by the way) or something else
>entirely.

Hi Larry,

All I got from that link was a blank page. No errors or text at
all.

I could "read" other messages in the forum but not that one.

If it's a link that a poster supplied to your map then perhaps
you could get the webmaster to remove it. That is if you can
figure out how to contact him/her.


Terry








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                   Brazilians Campaign Against UFO Secrecy

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 16:14:30 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 16:14:30 -0400
Subject: Brazilians Campaign Against UFO Secrecy

I would like to inform that thousands of Brazilian UFO
researchers, investigators, speakers, authors and all sorts of
UFO enthusiasts are presently engaged in the most comprehensive
and in-depth campaign in country's history, to officialy request
the end of government secrecy about the UFO Phenomena in Brazil
and the declassification of military documents.

The campaign is called UFOs: Freedom of Information Now, and can
be visited at:

www.ufo.com.br/ChegadeSigilos.php

Those of you familiar with the Portuguese language can sign the
petition to the Brazilian government visiting:

www.ufo.com.br/textoZero.php

Shortly a translation in English will be available.

International UFO community members can help the Brazilian
campaign by submitting supporting message to
campanha.nul

Its coordination is made by the Brazilian UFO Researchers
Comission (CBU), the same that promoted the 1st World UFO Forum
(1997), with the support of the Brazilian Center for Flying
Saucer Research (CBPDV) and through the Brazilian UFO Magazine.


A. J. Gevaerd
Editor
Brazilian UFO Magazine
Campaign Co-ordinator







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               Re: Ripped-Off Map Image By German Site - Hatch

From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 04:25:13 -0700
Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 16:23:34 -0400
Subject: Re: Ripped-Off Map Image By German Site - Hatch


>From: Terry Groff <terry.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 05:45:56 -0500
>Subject: Re: Ripped-Off Map Image By German Site

>>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 01:24:25 -0700
>>Subject: Ripped-Off Map Image By German Site


>>Can somebody who reads German help me here?

>>Looking thru the logs for my website, I found this web page
>>deep-linking one of my UFO maps. There is _no_ indication that
>>they give credit to the source (my work and site), nor a link
>>back.

>>Please check this out whether you can read the text or not:

>>http://www.faktinfo.de/forum/messages/16818.htm

>>I can't read German. I don't know if they are giving credit or
>>taking credit (20 years work by the way) or something else
>>entirely.

>All I got from that link was a blank page. No errors or text at
>all.

>I could "read" other messages in the forum but not that one.

>If it's a link that a poster supplied to your map then perhaps
>you could get the webmaster to remove it. That is if you can
>figure out how to contact him/her.


Hi Terry:

Thanks for the heads-up. Yeah, it looks like the Webmeister
there took the page down, or rather he simply blanked it out and
left it up!

I sent him a sternly worded nastygram. There's a good chance
that had something to do with it.

Looks like case closed. It looks like some kind of a blog site
in retrospect, the image could have been put up by a guest.
Anyhow its gone, so that's probably the end of that matter.


Best wishes and thanks

- Larry







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                    Re: Zeta Reticuli I & II? - Friedman

From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul>
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 08:25:10 -0300
Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 16:27:15 -0400
Subject: Re:  Zeta Reticuli I & II? - Friedman


>From: Rod Brock <humble98225.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 01:32:35 -0700 (PDT)
>Subject: Re: Zeta Reticuli I & II?

>>From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 16:39:08 EDT
>>Subject: Zeta Reticuli I & II?

>>Any data if any of our top telescopes that can see as far back
>>as the 'Big Bang' have turned an eye on the celebrated Zeta
>>Reticuli binary system?

>>Searching for planets that is.

>Well, a Google search for "Zeta Reticuli" gets you a giant list
>of sites offering all manner and variety of information about
>this binary system and its pasty inhabitants (even an alien
>cookbook, apparently not entitled "To Serve Man...). For the
>most part, it seems that the vast majority of the web-folk
>responsible for these pages aren't too concerned about any sort
>of "objective evaluation" of Zeta Reticuli, such as you inquire
>about.

<snip>

>http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives/dec97/878841087.As.r.html

The above is way out of date. The Hipparcos Satellite which more
recently made a ton of much more accurate stellar distance
measurements, showed that the 2 stars are both about 39 Light
Years away and are about 1/8th of a light year apart. No problem
with stable planetary orbits around both of them.

More details about the earlier data are in "The Zeta Reticuli
Incident" a 32 page full color booklet by Terence Dickinson,
published by ASTRONOMY Magazine,and available from me at POB
958, Houlton, ME 04730-0958 for only $5.00 including shipping.

Stan Friedman







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              Re: Radio Search For ET Draws A Blank - Friedman

From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul>
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 08:43:12 -0300
Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 16:36:28 -0400
Subject: Re: Radio Search For ET Draws A Blank - Friedman


>From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 23:58:20 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
>Subject: Re: Radio Search For ET Draws A Blank

<snip>

>Truth should never be determined by the opinions of the majority
>(science is not democratic) or what some powerful individuals or
>institutions proclaim (intellectual tyranny or dictatorship?)
>but on unbiased interpretations of all the facts even if they do
>not support currently accepted theories or lead to unpopular
>ones.

>Sometime back in 2001, two of my friends, Michael, a skeptical
>professional astronomer and Sue, a fellow member with MUFON
>Ontario stayed behind to speak with Seth Shostak (then with the
>SETI Institute) after his talk at York University to learn more
>about his beliefs regarding UFOs and ETs. As we expected,
>although Seth is a scientist, he was not well informed about
>important UFO incidents and other scientific evidence that
>strongly suggested ET contact had already been made and neither
>did he seem much interested in learning more - a cardinal sin
>for any true scientist, eminent or not.

<snip>

Seth and I each gave 3 different lectures on the last westward
crossing of the Queen Elizabeth 2 in December. He spoke about
SETI. I spoke about UFOs. We were cordial with each other.

I did point out many of the serious problems associated with
SETI.

Just before the trip I had read his new book "Cosmic Company".
Lots of pretty pictures and such silly gems as asking why
haven't UFOs landed and why haven't they been seen on radar?

He obviously was totally unaware of the great bulk of serious
UFO data including thousands of landings and loads of good radar
visual cases.

A couple of years back on Coast to Coast, I challenged him to a
debate on the air. He told them he wasn't having any.

After returning home from the QE 2, I sent a pleasant letter
again offering to debate and providing him with a copy of Jim
McDonald's 71 page congressional testimony. Not even the coutesy
of a reply. The cult of SETI goes on its merry way.


Stan Friedman







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             Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers - Kaeser

From: Steven Kaeser <steve.nul>
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 08:55:23 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 16:40:01 -0400
Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers - Kaeser


>From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 08:40:11 -0500
>Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers

<snip>

>>There are a few people still following this story, but very few.
>>I believe that Philip Mantle could probably provide the best
>>description of where we are today as far as the AA "film" is
>>concerned, but others might disagree. One individual came
>>forward to acknowledge his involvement in the creation of the
>>"Tent Sequence", which was never actually broadcast in the U.S.
>
>There was a very brief segment of that film shown on American
>TV, although it may have been via a British programme broadcast
>on Discovery Channel. I remember seeing it. The person said
>Santilli ordered it but then rejected it because it didn't look
>realistic enough. He admitted that he didn't know who did the
>actual autopsy footage. The individual sounded sincere, and he
>was right about the tent footage. It was really pretty bad. But
>again, we don't know the whole story here. Was it an attempt by
>Santilli to "sweeten the pot" with his own manufactured footage?
>It's not unheard of.

I'll admit that I was thinking of the first airing of the AA
"film" in 1995, rather than the subsequent "World's Greatest
Hoaxes" programe that Kiviat had produced, which did include a
section of the "Tent Sequence". While I don't want to spark
another furious debate on the subject, since we're not going to
resolve much at this point, I feel that I should make a couple
of points.

The "Tent Sequence" has been shown in various forms, as
described by several researchers. The version included on the
released video from Santilli was of poorer quality than the one
he had shown to others in his home, and was also much shorter. I
believe that Bob Shell felt that some sort of effort had been
undertaken to wash out the detail in the image, which would
indicate some sort of deception, IMO. That doesn't prove that
the entire series of sequences are fake, but Santilli certainly
hasn't helped his case much with his actions.

<snip>

>>Ray still has an autopsy "film" that has never been released or
>>shown publicly, and I would suspect that he'll be coming out of
>>the woodwork someday to offer that for review and purchase. But
>>without the cameraman to back up the images, we're never going
>>to get beyond the question of their validity.

>Santilli has to meet people at least half way if he expects
>anyone to take him seriously, particularly after all the
>debunking that's gone on. He's really the only one who can
>debunk the debunking. If he can.

Unfortunately, I think this became very personal for Ray
Santilli, with his family impacted by all the publicity. He
isn't really interested in ufology, per se, and I don't know if
he has any interest in pursueing this further any time soon. So
far, he isn't providing any answers that help.


>>I understand that Robert Kiviat is back in the Producer's chair
>>and perhaps he'll update the AA "film" investigation in one of
>>his upcoming productions.

>Yeah, but didn't Kiviat include it in a show he produced called
>"World's Greatest Hoaxes," or something like that?

Yes. Kiviat is apparently working on an update, but I don't know
what he plans or how he'll present the subject this time. There
have been a couple of meetings that he had been involved in, and
he actually met with the alleged camerman's son at one point
(who was a standin for his father who was too ill to travel).
Unfortunately, meeting someone doesn't provide much proof and
this was handled in such a way that Kiviat didn't actually learn
the name or home address of the son. It's all very cloak-and-
dagger and I'm not sure there's really any need to get into all
the stupid antics that took place trying to verify some portion
of the cameraman's story.

>I remain fascinated, as I have from the beginning. It's very
>interesting how the whole Alien Autopsy has played out. Yes,
>it's about time for a review of the case.

The only excuse for another review that I can see is the release
of some new information. I became fascinated with this "film" in
1994 when it was first mentioned, and I was very entertained by
the reactions I monitored on the Internet. But over the course
of several years, this tangent of ufology played itself out,
IMO, and we beat on this dead horse for quite a while.


Steve








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              Re: Why I Support Alien Abduction Study - Sandow

From: Greg Sandow <greg.nul>
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 10:06:57 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 16:42:46 -0400
Subject: Re: Why I Support Alien Abduction Study - Sandow


>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 07:50:57 -0500
>Subject: Re: Why I Support Alien Abduction Study

>If Harney's words sound like lazy, sleazy ad hominem to you,
>too, perhaps John can redeem himself. Since "most of those
>who study abductions obviously do not want answers," only
>money and self-aggrandizement, it should be - as a Wodehouse
>character would express it - the work of an instant for John
>to provide us with names. Let's find out exactly whom he
>means, and while he's at it, let's see some evidence behind
>the arm-waving - actual evidence, as opposed to a mere
>statement of faith such as we've seen so far - that "most"
>abduction researchers are in it for the cash and the glory.

Way to go, Jerry!

What a victory for science. Harney knows exactly what motivates
both abductees and abduction researchers. Never mind - while he
thinks abductees are, basically, crazy - that published research
(in the form if objective psychological studies) says otherwise.

I wonder if Harney actually knows any abductees, or abduction
researchers. If he doesn't, I invite him to improve his
knowledge. He can start with me, since I've done a small amount
of work on abductions. My essay "The Abduction Conundrum" was
even savaged (nonsensically) in Magonia. If John would like to
call me, I'll be happy to talk to him, so he can determine what
my motivations are. If he e-mails me privately, I'll give him my
phone number.

And maybe I'll find out what motivates him!


Greg Sandow








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                          Pilot Sightings 1963-1975

From: James Smith <zeus001002.nul>
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 10:24:35 -0400 (GMT-04:00)
Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 16:47:46 -0400
Subject: Pilot Sightings 1963-1975


Anyone ever look at the load of data from pilots as part of
Moonwatch?

-----

"The Volunteer Flight Officer Network (VFON) was established in
1963 by Denver Moonwatch team leader Herbert E. Roth to collect
eyewitness reports of satellites and meteor sightings from
airline pilots and other flight personnel.

Roth was employed by United Air Lines, which agreed to support
the project by providing printing and mailing funds. In 1965 the
VFON became affiliated with Moonwatch, which advised Roth and
assumed a part of the mailing expenses.

In 1969 Moonwatch assumed complete administrative control of the
VFON under a contract with the United States Air Force. Before
its termination in 1975, the VFON had grown to include the
employees of 118 airlines in 57 countries and had collected
approximately 4200 observations.

... files maintained for each member airline in the VFON,
correspondence with airlines that refused to join, and the
approximately 4200 sighting reports submitted to the VFON. Some
reports were filed according to... the type of the sighting
(satellite re-entry, meteor, unprocessed, or other)... Each
folder also contains... acknowledgments of reports, and
discussions of unusual sightings."

-----

Available at the Smithsonian Archives (paper only!)








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                  Re: Another Metallic Sound On ISS - Smith

From: James Smith <zeus001002.nul>
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 10:27:06 -0400 (GMT-04:00)
Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 16:49:34 -0400
Subject: Re: Another Metallic Sound On ISS - Smith


>From: John Scheldroup <jschel.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 21:14:54 -0500
>Subject: Re: Another Metallic Sound On ISS

>>From: Norman
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 20:03:19 -0500
>>Subject: Another Metallic Sound On ISS

>>"Metallic Sound Heard Again By Space Station Crew"

>>http://edition.cnn.com/2004/TECH/space/04/02/space.station.ap/index.html

>>What's causing this metallic sound? ET or ghosts?

>Or maybe a little solar flare activity, lots of photons which
>bombard the structure make noise to. A thing that is already
>falling to earth's gravity. I wonder how many structures do we
>know built so large with that amount of exposure have not shown
>to be making noise outside.

>A vacuum is a likely pointer to vibrations or pounding sounds on
>a hull, if every hull should resonate at a certain frequency
>like in plank, which element has the right constant to show
>itself having a special resonancy, that orbits the earth,
>possibly with effects of other things related to earth.

>As I do wonder if there is not, some vibrational thing here
>where the sun hits the thing, the thing causes noises outside ?

>I don't know, but I retro back on something of Planck absorbsion
>onto a structure and its resonance.

>John

The external air pressure is 32 times more than the solar photon
pressure at the ISS altitude (assuming a perfect reflecting
surface).

Only at about 1.5 times the altitude of ISS do solar photons get
close to the air pressure, but that is because the air pressure
is getting alot lower.

Also, solar photons do not act as a "small" packet, but would
blanket the ISS in their effect. Thus we should see the ISS
solar arrays waving in the solar photon "breeze". But the force
is way too small to see.

Even atmospheric air pressure waves would not be on a small
scale to just hit the one clanky part of the ISS, but rather
would be noticable by mainly seeing the ISS solar arrays wave.

Now if you mean thermal cycling, then you may be closer to a
possible answer. There are a lot of thermal blankets on ISS and
thermal design and predictions is an art so, possibly, there is
some unequal heating/cooling during the orbit period.

Also the latest:4/5/04 ISS status report:

"Update on Noise: TsUP/Moscow continues to look into the cause
of the anomalous noise heard last week (4/2) in the vicinity of
Foale's sleep compartment in the SM. Main suspect is a
ventilation fan, and cleaning its screen will be scheduled ASAP.
However, TsUP may also have the general location of the noise
inspected from the outside during EVA-10 (on 7/22)."








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             Re: Documentary Series 'UFO Under Investigation' -

From: Chris Rutkowski <rutkows.nul>
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 09:29:23 -0500 (CDT)
Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 16:51:17 -0400
Subject: Re: Documentary Series 'UFO Under Investigation' -


>From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 07:32:14 -0500
>Subject: Re: Documentary Series 'UFO Under Investigation'

>Yes - I agree with you, and submit that you are making way too
>kind an assessment of "the more usual ['merkin... - you had too
>many syllables [g].] approach."  Our attitudes have been shaped
>by convenience and arrogance down here and we have gotten into
>the habit of being told what to 'be' so we have more time for
>the convenience, and told how to "think" so there is more
>justification for the arrogance (...all dollar driven...). You
>can hardly think more of us when you realize that our whole
>national ethic (as it is defined by the ruling class of neo-
> cons) is concerned with style over substance, conformance over
>courage, and docile employees over dauntless explorers...
>I apologize, myself, for the ufological drivel we generally
>produce down here, expose it as the non-nourishing fruit of our
>national disease, and suggest that Canada intellectually invade
>the US, at once, in a preemptive action to inject a little much-
> needed rationality and perspective or imagination to our
>ufological ball-fumbling.  Too many of you guys pat us on the
>shoulder when you should be kicking us in the ass.  Power is
>~not~ served by adulation, and is best served by criticism.

We already have invaded you intellectually: Monty Hall, Michael
J. Fox, Avril Lavigne, John Candy, William Shatner, Paul
Shaffer, Jim Carrey, Celine Dion, The Rock, Pamela Anderson,
Eugene Levy, Neil Young, Nelly Furtado, Alanis Morissete.....

On second thought, we're sorry. Really, really sorry.....








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             Re: Professor Chris French On Abduction Phenomenon

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 11:34:08 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 16:53:34 -0400
Subject: Re: Professor Chris French On Abduction Phenomenon


>From: Nick Pope <nick.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 19:26:19 +0100
>Subject: Professor Chris French On Abduction Phenomenon

>As promised, here's the text of the interview that I conducted
>with Professor Chris French, concerning the scientific study
>into the alien abduction phenomenon. The study's being carried
>out by psychologists from Goldsmiths College, University of
>London. This interview was first published in the January 2004
>issue of UFO Magazine.

>Best wishes,

>Nick Pope

>-----

<snip>

Nick,

You quoted Chris French in your interview was saying:

>I should emphasise [sic. -- spelling] that we very much
>see this study as exploratory and we do expect to produce
>a definitive explanation on the basis of the data we will
>collect. We intend to follow up this phase of the research
>with further investigations in the future.

I hope there was an error in more than just the spelling of the
word emphasize, and that he really said, "...we do [not] expect
to produce a definitive explanation on the basis of the data we
will collect".

Otherwise, one might wonder if it is a 'Freudian slip' revealing
an unconscious bias.

Of course, we must not hold French responsible for transcription
error, if that's what it really was.


Ray Stanford

"You know my method. It is founded upon the observance of
trifles." -- Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery






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               Re: Another Metallic Sound On ISS - Scheldroup

From: John Scheldroup <jschel.nul>
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 10:46:04 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 16:55:32 -0400
Subject: Re: Another Metallic Sound On ISS - Scheldroup


<snip>

>From: Robert Grass <RDGRASS.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 01:33:29 EDT
>Subject: Re: Another Metallic Sound On ISS

>Having gone to college with several of the engineers at NASA, I
>would believe that they have already considered radiative as
>well as conductive heat transfer.

>I am wondering about the possibility of an "echo" effect inside
>the station proper. If a large enough particle of "space
>debris" hit the station, would it cause an echo inside?


Hi Robert,

There could be an echoing effect, when given that any sound wave
can not travel thru a vacuum or in space. If a sound just wants
to be heard, the straightest path to follow would likely be
heard only from within the station.

All of these little sound arrows pointed inwards on the hull,
once the sound finds a medium to follow it takes it. What
follows later are lots of richet effect until the energy of the
bounce is no more.

The other thing is the velocity of small particle "debris". If I
take a beer can and place it into my can crusher and slowly pull
down on the handle, it would seem that for every little piece of
noise generated, each will have more time then the next to
become absorbed and richochet elsewhere in the room. A very
noisy sound indeed, but if I pulled down on the handle a little
faster this time we again have the same noise only acting out in
less time.

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/4654619/

Let's wait till the pendulum strikes 4.


John









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                           Auroras Alert From NASA

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 12:00:52 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 16:57:26 -0400
Subject: Auroras Alert From NASA


Scource: Space Weather News

http://spaceweather.com

April 7, 2004

AURORA WATCH: A coronal mass ejection (CME) hurled into space by
a solar explosion on April 6th is heading in the general
direction of Earth. Sky watchers should be alert for auroras
when it arrives, probably during the early hours of April 8th UT
(for North Americans, that means during the night of April 7th).

Earth is already skirting through a solar wind stream flowing
from a coronal hole on the sun. Because of this, geomagnetic
storms and auroras are likely, off and on, for the next few
days. The best displays will be at high latitudes - e.g., Canada
and Alaska. When the incoming CME arrives, auroras could descend
to lower latitudes, too.

Visit Spaceweather.com for updates.

ISS FLYBY: And while you're visiting, be sure to check out a
remarkable movie of the International Space Station passing
almost directly in front of the planet Saturn.  It was recorded
by a German amateur astronomer earlier this month.








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                         Aliens Prefer Grolsch Beer

From: Chris Rutkowski <rutkows.nul>
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 11:47:15 -0500 (CDT)
Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 17:21:20 -0400
Subject: Aliens Prefer Grolsch Beer


If you haven't yet been convinced that UFOs and aliens are part
of our pop culture, take a look at the multifaceted marketing
campaign of Grolsch Beer that has just been launched (pun fully
intended):

www.grolsch.co.uk








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                           Secrecy News - 04/07/04

From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood.nul>
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 14:20:22 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 17:23:09 -0400
Subject: Secrecy News - 04/07/04


SECRECY NEWS
from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy
Volume 2004, Issue No. 34
April 7, 2004


**      INSIGHT INTO FOREIGN "THOUGHTWORLDS" NEEDED
**      OVERCOMING ANIMOSITY IN MULTINATIONAL COALITIONS
**      INTELLIGENCE TRANSFORMATION ACT
**      CRS ON FBI INTELLIGENCE REFORM


INSIGHT INTO FOREIGN "THOUGHTWORLDS" NEEDED

Policy makers require greater insight into the "thoughtworlds"
of adversaries - their culture, motivations, and characteristic
modes of perception and behavior - in order to advance national
interests by means other than the blunt instruments of force,
according to a new study from the Institute for Defense Analyses
(IDA), a defense contractor.

The problem is that "A strategy of using [military or economic
force] to compel desired outcomes... is poorly suited to many
present challenges, notably in the strategic war against terror,
a number of taxing regional crises, and in countering a global
wave of anti-U.S. sentiment."

"There are alternative strategies that, instead of seeking to
compel or force, actively engage foreign partners or adversaries
in a way that recognizes their interests, perspectives, will,
and energies and that seek to effectively communicate,
influence, channel extant dynamics, or sometimes effect more
fundamental changes in thought or action."

"Such strategies, not without their own limitations, should now
receive relatively more consideration and emphasis in U.S.
national security affairs."

In an astute and literate analysis, the author is careful to
place bounds on his argument, observing, for example, that
improved communication and understanding can sometimes
exacerbate conflict rather than relieve it.

And he notes the obstacles to his own proposals, including a
cultural predisposition that is unfavorable to the kind of
insight he says is needed.

"A nuanced understanding of how people in other societies think
-- their thoughtworlds - ... has not been commonly reflected in
U.S. national security affairs, and is not prominent in U.S.
society generally."  (The very word "thoughtworld" is not
normally used in American English and is apparently borrowed
from the German "Gedankenwelt.")

See "Insight Into Foreign Thoughtworlds for National Security
Decision Makers" by J.W. Barnett, Institute for Defense
Analyses, January 2004:

http://www.fas.org/irp/eprint/thoughtworlds.pdf


OVERCOMING ANIMOSITY IN MULTINATIONAL COALITIONS

Cross-cultural conflicts are also addressed in a new report
published by the U.S. Army, which notes "an apparent increase in
anti-American sentiment expressed by and within" military
partners in multinational coalitions.

"If the Army is to be successful in its cooperation with other
countries' militaries, it is essential that it understand the
sources of the anti-Americanism as well as what can be done to
ameliorate those sentiments," wrote Zita M. Simutis, Chief
Psychologist of the U.S. Army in a foreword to the study.

Some of those sources of animosity, and proposals to address
them, are explored in "International Military Education and
Multinational Military Cooperation" by Charles Moskos, January
2004:

http://www.fas.org/man/eprint/moskos.pdf


INTELLIGENCE TRANSFORMATION ACT

The text of the "Intelligence Transformation Act of 2004" (HR
4104), a bill which was introduced on April 1 by Rep. Jane
Harman and other Democratic members of the House Intelligence
Committee, is now available here:

http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/2004_cr/hr4104.html


CRS ON FBI INTELLIGENCE REFORM

The efforts of the Federal Bureau of Investigation to "transform
itself into an agency that can prevent terrorist acts, rather
than react to them as criminal acts" are examined in a major new
report from the Congressional Research Service.

"Both supporters and skeptics of the adequacy of FBI's reforms
agree that collecting intelligence by penetrating terrorist
cells is critical to disrupting and preventing terrorist acts,"
the CRS report observes.

"Supporters argue that the FBI has a long and successful history
of such penetrations when it comes to organized crime groups,
and suggest that it is capable of replicating its success
against terrorist cells....  Skeptics say recruiting organized
crime penetrations differs dramatically from terrorist
recruiting [and that strategic intelligence collection is a
qualitatively different function than gathering information on
criminal activity]."

The new CRS report synthesizes a considerable volume of recent
debate regarding the future of the FBI and outlines the policy
choices available to legislators.

See "FBI Intelligence Reform Since September 11, 2001: Issues
and Options for Congress" by Alfred Cumming and Todd Masse,
Congressional Research Service, April 6, 2004:

http://www.fas.org/irp/crs/RL32336.html

Congressional leaders including Rep. Bob Ney (R-OH), chair of
the House Administration Committee, oppose direct public access
to CRS reports like this one.


_______________________________________________

Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the
Federation of American Scientists.

To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to
secrecy_news-request.nul
with "subscribe" in the body of the message.

OR email your request to saftergood.nul

Secrecy News is archived at:
http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html

_______________________
Steven Aftergood
Project on Government Secrecy
Federation of American Scientists
web:    www.fas.org/sgp/index.html
email:  saftergood.nul
voice:  (202) 454-4691








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   Apr > Apr 7

                              Scots UFO Capital

From: Terry Groff <terry.nul>
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 13:36:38 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 17:26:58 -0400
Subject: Scots UFO Capital


Source: Ulster TV - Belfast Ireland

http://www.utvlive.com/newsroom/indepth.asp?id=44480&pt=n

07/04/2004

Scots UFO Capital

A small Scottish town was today named UFO capital of the UK in a
survey.

Bonnybridge in Stirlingshire topped a league of 40 "alien
encounter" sites in the research.

Cley Hill in Wiltshire was the second most
"extra-terrestrial-plagued" area of Britain. Third came the
Great Orme, the North Wales beauty spot.

Researchers found that aliens seemed to be equally fond of the
city, with two areas of London - Walthamstow and Lewisham -
making the top 10.

Bedhampton in Hampshire also made it on to the list because of
several "sightings" filmed by a local man which have never been
explained.

The survey by Grolsch beer found that as well as UFO-spotters,
firefighters and police had reported seeing strange objects in
the sky.

The depute provost of Falkirk Council, Billy Buchanan, 55, whose
constituency covers Bonnybridge, said he thought the town might
be a porthole to another dimension.

"We have two major alien abduction cases here at the moment and
my wife and I saw a strange triangular craft the size of a
battleship hovering above our house last week for three nights,"
he said.

There have been more than 60,000 sightings of flying saucers in
the town (population 5,500), which has been dubbed 'Costa Del
Sol' for little green men.








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             Re: Documentary Series 'UFO Under Investigation' -

From: Paul Kimball <Kimballwood.nul>
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 15:41:43 EDT
Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 17:28:46 -0400
Subject: Re: Documentary Series 'UFO Under Investigation' -


>From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 07:32:14 -0500
>Subject: Re: Documentary Series 'UFO Under Investigation'

>>From: Chris Rutkowski <rutkows.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 09:36:16 -0500 (CDT)
>>Subject: Re: Documentary Series 'UFO Under Investigation'

>>>From: Jacques Poulet <jpoulet.nul>
>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2004 09:13:52 -0400
>>>Subject: Documentary Series 'UFO Under Investigation'

<snip>

>>>The new series 'UFO Under Investigation' starts on Canada's
>>>Space Channel, Saturday April 10 at 19:00. See:

<snip>

>>It offers a different perspective to ufology than the more usual
>>"Murrican" approach, and viewers will likely find it refreshing.
>>The re-enactments are well-done, and the images behind the
>>voice-overs are visually interesting, in a narrative style.

<snip>

>I apologize, myself, for the ufological drivel we generally
>produce down here, expose it as the non-nourishing fruit of our
>national disease, and suggest that Canada intellectually invade
>the US, at once, in a preemptive action to inject a little much-
>needed rationality and perspective or imagination to our
>ufological ball-fumbling.  Too many of you guys pat us on the
>shoulder when you should be kicking us in the ass.  Power is
>~not~ served by adulation, and is best served by criticism.

Speaking as a Canadian and a filmmaker, no need to apologize,
with the possible exception of Michael Moore, who you have
inflicted upon us, and who's ego is writing cheques the "facts"
he presents just can't cash (if you have seen "Bowling for
Columbine" I can only tell you that, no, Canadians do not leave
their house doors unlocked!). Fortunately, he has yet to weigh
in on the subject of UFOs.

>Moreover, the United States (which does not 'own' ufology in any
>just fashion), by its nature and prerequisite... is at the
>bottom tier of serious ufology, and has ~indeed~ gone out of its
>way to queer it for the whole planet!  You guys should be more
>critical of that...

Your self-criticism is making you sound downright Canadian!

I don't think the US has "queered" ufology for the rest of the
planet; indeed, it seems to me that, having offered up folks
like MacDonald, Friedman, Hynek, Hall, Maccabee (just to name a
very, very few), the US has been at the forefront of serious
research. Even the best debunkers (Menzel, Klass, CSICOP in
general) are from the US.

Of course, you have a lot of kooks down there too, but who
doesn't these days? To the best of my recollection, Rael was
from Canada.

The vast majority of UFO Conferences and Symposiums are also
held in the US, most of which (albeit not all) strive to have a
pretty serious group of people who, even if you disagree with
them, manage to present their case in a reasoned manner, without
hype or sensationalism. And, when passing through US Immigration
and customs, I always get a nice and interesting chat from the
officer when I tell him/her that I'm down there to film a UFO
doc, or attend a UFO Conference.

That said, we do have a small cadre of filmmakers up here that
seem to turn out well-received, serious (for television)
documentaries about the UFO phenomenon; why, just in little old
Halifax (metro population about 350,000) there are two of us -
 me and Mike MacDonald (Shag Harbour Incident), who between us
have done three in the past couple of years, with more in the
can or on the way. Why that is the case is perhaps hard to
figure, exactly, but I would suggest it has at least something
to do with a network (Space: The Imagination Station) that -
 between programming Buffy the Vampire Slayer and Star Trek:
Enterprise - manages to find the time and money to fund our
films, and let us explore everything from local crashes to, oh,
I don't know... the Majestic-12 documents?

Speaking of which... our film Do You Believe in Majic? premieres
April 28th on Space, 7 pm EST. Made by Canadians, shot in the
United States (mostly) and interviewing Americans (although Stan
Friedman counts as both Yank and Canuck). The best of both
worlds!


Best regards,

Paul Kimball
www.restarfilm.com








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   Apr > Apr 7

              Re: Why I Support Alien Abduction Study - Harney

From: John Harney <magonia.nul>
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 21:24:53 +0100
Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 17:31:21 -0400
Subject: Re: Why I Support Alien Abduction Study - Harney


>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 07:50:57 -0500
>Subject: Re: Why I Support Alien Abduction Study

>>From: John Harney <magonia.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 19:14:32 +0100
>>Subject: Re: Why I Support Alien Abduction Study

>>Many of those who suffer the abduction syndrome undoubtedly seek
>>answers. However, most of those who study abductees obviously do
>>not want answers, they want to keep it mysterious (think book
>>contracts, lecture tours, TV chat shows). Many of them either
>>attack or ignore those who suggest sensible explanations.

>Ah, that wonderfully smug pelicanist phrase: "sensible
>explanations." We all know what _they_ are, don't we? The ones
>that John Harney and his fellow flappers agree with. It's
>usually a joke when someone says, "You can always tell a
>brilliant guy; he agrees with you." Apparently, John actually
>_believes_ it.

A sensible explanation, Jerry, is one which at least obeys the
rules of elementary logic. It has nothing to do with with certain
large birds (which Errol has recently indicated that he is fed up
with reading about). I can assure you it isn't necessary for me
to consider it a likely explanation. However, I appreciate that
you obviously prefer what is called "saucer logic", i.e. the more
absurd the explanation the better.

An example of an explanation which is not sensible is one which I
think was devised by a certain B*dd H*pk*ns, who asserts that the
reason why abductions are not observed and recorded by
independent witnesses is that such potential witnesses are
"switched off" for the duration of the abduction.

If you think that's sensible, then just perform this thought
experiment. Someone is abducted from a car. But there are others
nearby so they have to be "switched off". There are other people
approaching, so they have to get the same treatment. The
abduction lasts for the standard two hours. Meanwhile, the number
of of potential witnesses to something odd going on is increasing
exponentially. You don't have to be very good at arithmetic to
realise that the whole idea is utterly ridiculous.

>As for the _other_ explanations - the "nonsensible" ones that
>give Harney, et al., the vapors - those are favored by shifty,
>greedy people who know better but just "want to keep it
>mysterious" for monetary gain and attention. They couldn't
>_possibly_ harbor honorable motives, like, say, John Harney and
>all his feathered friends squawking in the avian choir.

I think very few make any money out of it, but quite a few get
lots of attention, but they obviously crave attention. Otherwise
they would use only serious outlets to publish their findings
rather than appearing on light entertainment TV shows and
speaking at crazy UFO conferences. Whatever their motives might
be, their behaviour is not such as to encourage scientists to
take their work seriously.

>If Harney's words sound like lazy, sleazy ad hominem to you,
>too, perhaps John can redeem himself. Since "most of those who
>study abductions obviously do not want answers," only money and
>self-aggrandizement, it should be - as a Wodehouse character
>would express it - the work of an instant for John to provide us
>with names. Let's find out exactly whom he means, and while he's
>at it, let's see some evidence behind the arm- waving - actual
>evidence, as opposed to a mere statement of faith such as we've
>seen so far - that "most" abduction researchers are in it for
>the cash and the glory.

>You can start with your next posting, John. I can hardly wait.

You are obviously hoping I will write something which will
attract the attention of some greedy libel lawyer. You don't
need a list; you know who these people are and that they range
from the sincere but deluded to the barking mad. Nothing I say
about any of them would be likely to alter the opinions of
anyone on this list about them. So just make yourself a nice cup
of tea and try to calm down.


John Harney








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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   Apr > Apr 7

             Re: Why I Support Alien Abduction Study - Lehmberg

From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul>
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 16:05:45 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 17:32:36 -0400
Subject: Re: Why I Support Alien Abduction Study - Lehmberg


>From: Greg Sandow <greg.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 10:06:57 -0400
>Subject: Re: Why I Support Alien Abduction Study

>>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 07:50:57 -0500
>>Subject: Re: Why I Support Alien Abduction Study

<snip>

>I wonder if Harney actually knows any abductees, or abduction
>researchers. If he doesn't, I invite him to improve his
>knowledge. He can start with me, since I've done a small amount
>of work on abductions. My essay "The Abduction Conundrum" was
>even savaged (nonsensically) in Magonia. If John would like to
>call me, I'll be happy to talk to him, so he can determine what
>my motivations are. If he e-mails me privately, I'll give him my
>phone number.

>And maybe I'll find out what motivates him!


...said the spider to the fly, with a huge amount of respect for
the craft and intelligence of spiders, but with little of same
compelled for flies...

alienview.nul

EXPLORE "AlienViewGroup" at its HostPros URL.
http://www.alienview.net


JOHN FORD RESTORATION FUND -- John will be released eventually.
He'll need a tax free cash stake to get on his feet. Let's put
one together for him; the bigger it is -- the more attention
he gets. It could have been you. E-mail for detail.
$450.00 pledged -- $200.00 collected!

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite.
What others see from afar, I leave far behind me."
- Giordano Bruno, scourged by the scabrously specious scurrilous.








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   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   Apr > Apr 7

             Re: Documentary Series 'UFO Under Investigation' -

From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul>
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 16:16:43 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 17:35:23 -0400
Subject: Re: Documentary Series 'UFO Under Investigation' -


>From: Chris Rutkowski <rutkows.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 09:29:23 -0500 (CDT)
>Subject: Re: Documentary Series 'UFO Under Investigation'

>>From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 07:32:14 -0500
>>Subject: Re: Documentary Series 'UFO Under Investigation'

>>Yes - I agree with you, and submit that you are making way too
>>kind an assessment of "the more usual ['merkin... - you had too
>>many syllables] <g> approach." Our attitudes have been shaped
>>by convenience and arrogance down here and we have gotten into
>>the habit of being told what to 'be' so we have more time for
>>the convenience, and told how to "think" so there is more
>>justification for the arrogance (...all dollar driven...). You
>>can hardly think more of us when you realize that our whole
>>national ethic (as it is defined by the ruling class of neo-
>>cons) is concerned with style over substance, conformance over
>>courage, and docile employees over dauntless explorers...
>>I apologize, myself, for the ufological drivel we generally
>>produce down here, expose it as the non-nourishing fruit of our
>>national disease, and suggest that Canada intellectually invade
>>the US, at once, in a preemptive action to inject a little much-
>>needed rationality and perspective or imagination to our
>>ufological ball-fumbling. Too many of you guys pat us on the
>>shoulder when you should be kicking us in the ass. Power is
>>~not~ served by adulation, and is best served by criticism.

>We already have invaded you intellectually: Monty Hall, Michael
>J. Fox, Avril Lavigne, John Candy, William Shatner, Paul
>Shaffer, Jim Carrey, Celine Dion, The Rock, Pamela Anderson,
>Eugene Levy, Neil Young, Nelly Furtado, Alanis Morissete.....

>On second thought, we're sorry. Really, really sorry.....


The Rock!?!? I _knew_ there was a reason I loved that guy! Thanks for
every one of them - even Celine! She _can_ sing! ...Thanks,
especially, for John Candy.....


alienview.nul
www.AlienView.net

Photo Album: http://www.alienview.net/AVAlbum.htm
(send picture as attachment to alienview.nul)
Splash page:  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AlienViewGroup/
Radio Show & Splash Page: http://www.alienview.net/alienviews.htm
Radio Show Archives: Out of Service at this time...
http://www.alienview.net/N2Ltune.html -- The music in me...








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   'Its All Here In Black & White'
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   Apr > Apr 7

                    Re: Pilot Sightings 1963-1975 - Hall

From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 22:00:46 +0000
Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 22:15:23 -0400
Subject: Re: Pilot Sightings 1963-1975 - Hall


>From: James Smith <zeus001002.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 10:24:35 -0400 (GMT-04:00)
>Subject: Pilot Sightings 1963-1975

>Anyone ever look at the load of data from pilots as part of
>Moonwatch?

>"The Volunteer Flight Officer Network (VFON) was established in
>1963 by Denver Moonwatch team leader Herbert E. Roth to collect
>eyewitness reports of satellites and meteor sightings from
>airline pilots and other flight personnel.

>Roth was employed by United Air Lines, which agreed to support
>the project by providing printing and mailing funds. In 1965 the
>VFON became affiliated with Moonwatch, which advised Roth and
>assumed a part of the mailing expenses.

>In 1969 Moonwatch assumed complete administrative control of the
>VFON under a contract with the United States Air Force. Before
>its termination in 1975, the VFON had grown to include the
>employees of 118 airlines in 57 countries and had collected
>approximately 4200 observations.

>... files maintained for each member airline in the VFON,
>correspondence with airlines that refused to join, and the
>approximately 4200 sighting reports submitted to the VFON. Some
>reports were filed according to... the type of the sighting
>(satellite re-entry, meteor, unprocessed, or other)... Each
>folder also contains... acknowledgments of reports, and
>discussions of unusual sightings."

>Available at the Smithsonian Archives (paper only!)

Also available (most of the VFON records) in the Donald E.
Keyhoe Archives. Herb Roth, now retired and living in the
Southwest, has been a good friend and colleague of many years
and an active NICAP adviser in the past. Also a former Board
Member of the Fund for UFO Research.

Ted Roe and Dick Haines at NARCAP have the best overall data on
pilot sightings, but the cream of the crop from the VFON active
era have been reported in The UFO Evidence: Volume II with Dick
Haines' help and cooperation.


 - Dick









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   Apr > Apr 7

               Re: Why I Support Alien Abduction Study - Clark

From: Jerome Clark <jkclark.nul>
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 17:29:07 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 22:35:26 -0400
Subject: Re: Why I Support Alien Abduction Study - Clark


>From: John Harney <magonia.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 21:24:53 +0100
>Subject: Re: Why I Support Alien Abduction Study

>>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 07:50:57 -0500
>>Subject: Re: Why I Support Alien Abduction Study

>>>From: John Harney <magonia.nul>
>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 19:14:32 +0100
>>>Subject: Re: Why I Support Alien Abduction Study


Sigh, John, as well as patient and gentle Listfolk,

>>Ah, that wonderfully smug pelicanist phrase: "sensible
>>explanations." We all know what _they_ are, don't we? The ones
>>that John Harney and his fellow flappers agree with. It's
>>usually a joke when someone says, "You can always tell a
>>brilliant guy; he agrees with you." Apparently, John actually
>>_believes_ it.

>A sensible explanation, Jerry, is one which at least obeys the
>rules of elementary logic. It has nothing to do with with certain
>large birds (which Errol has recently indicated that he is fed up
>with reading about). I can assure you it isn't necessary for me
>to consider it a likely explanation. However, I appreciate that
>you obviously prefer what is called "saucer logic", i.e. the more
>absurd the explanation the better.

Does this response make any sense to anybody - except a
pelicanist, of course? The last sentence is a particular
puzzler, which bears no discernible relationship to anything I
wrote, which was not about the specifics of the abduction
phenomenon but about your slanderous characterization of the
integrity and motivation of "most" abduction researchers. At
least it warns us to expect no actual defense of your
extraordinarily sleazy charge.

>An example of an explanation which is not sensible is one which I
>think was devised by a certain B*dd H*pk*ns, who asserts that the
>reason why abductions are not observed and recorded by
>independent witnesses is that such potential witnesses are
>"switched off" for the duration of the abduction.

An interesting phenomenon, I might note, that I came upon in an
abduction case I investigated and wrote about several years
before I'd ever heard of Budd Hopkins (not, John, "B*dd
H*pk*ns"). In the instance with which I am familiar, the
incident took place along a little-traveled rural road in a
thinly populated state before dawn. Abduction stories are full
of bizarre and unlikely detail - and that's what makes them so
interesting, suggestive, and intriguing. Those details do not
tell us whether they are "real" or "false," just that they are
incredibly strange and have their own extremely peculiar logic,
about which our own quotidian sense of the "logical" may not be
particularly helpful, at least at this stage of our collective
ignorance.

>If you think that's sensible, then just perform this thought
>experiment. Someone is abducted from a car. But there are others
>nearby so they have to be "switched off". There are other people
>approaching, so they have to get the same treatment. The
>abduction lasts for the standard two hours. Meanwhile, the number
>of of potential witnesses to something odd going on is increasing
>exponentially. You don't have to be very good at arithmetic to
>realise that the whole idea is utterly ridiculous.

Whatever "utterly ridiculous" means in this context, beyond your
subjective judgment on what that means. Perhaps abductees should
go to you and let you patiently explain to them what they are
permitted to experience and what is forbidden. Are you implying
that Budd Hopkins is advancing his idea - right or wrong,
puzzling or ridiculous - because he is a dishonorable man? In
context, no other interpretation seems possible, but I am sure
you don't have the courage to state that forthrightly.

>I think very few make any money out of it, but quite a few get
>lots of attention, but they obviously crave attention.

And this comes from what - besides, I mean, your less than
objective proclamation of faith? I could as sensibly argue that
Magonia's long existence under your stewardship and your
frequent appearance in forums such as this can only mean that
"obviously" you crave attention and are, in truth, insincere in
your professed beliefs. Being a grown-up who interacts daily
with persons whose honestly held convictions are sometimes
profoundly unlike my own, I don't, of course, believe that about
you for a second.

>Otherwise
>they would use only serious outlets to publish their findings
>rather than appearing on light entertainment TV shows and
>speaking at crazy UFO conferences. Whatever their motives might
>be, their behaviour is not such as to encourage scientists to
>take their work seriously.

So, in short, someone goes on a television show to discuss his
research, and that makes him manifestly bogus, insincere, and
publicity-hungry? That writers and investigators in any arena of
knowledge, theory, area of interest, or experience who appear in
public without having published in scholarly journals do so
because they crave attention and don't care if what they say is
true or not? Or does this apply just to ufologists? That's a
rhetorical question, John. We all know how you have to make
ufologists into special cases to launch arguments that otherwise
would be, shall we say, less than uncompelling. Incidentally,
which refereed professional journals are you publishing your
pelicanist theories? I guess I must have missed those.

>>If Harney's words sound like lazy, sleazy ad hominem to you,
>>too, perhaps John can redeem himself. Since "most of those who
>>study abductions obviously do not want answers," only money and
>>self-aggrandizement, it should be - as a Wodehouse character
>>would express it - the work of an instant for John to provide us
>>with names. Let's find out exactly whom he means, and while he's
>>at it, let's see some evidence behind the arm- waving - actual
>>evidence, as opposed to a mere statement of faith such as we've
>>seen so far - that "most" abduction researchers are in it for
>>the cash and the glory.

>>You can start with your next posting, John. I can hardly wait.

>You are obviously hoping I will write something which will
>attract the attention of some greedy libel lawyer. You don't
>need a list; you know who these people are and that they range
>from the sincere but deluded to the barking mad. Nothing I say
>about any of them would be likely to alter the opinions of
>anyone on this list about them. So just make yourself a nice cup
>of tea and try to calm down.

I doubt seriously that anybody is going to sue you, and it was
not my intention ("obviously," to borrow a good pelicanist
adverb) to put you at risk. I simply wanted to show whether you
are sincere, or if you simply prefer to employ sleazy ad
hominems which you don't have to support with actual names,
empirical evidence, or persuasive argument.

You know, John, if you've been relegated to the bottom-feeder
slander that people who disagree with you can't possibly be
sincere, maybe you're long overdue for retirement from this
field. I know that if I thought most of my ostensible colleagues
were in it for the money (what money?) and the glory (what
glory?), I would have left ufology in disgust and contempt long
ago. Just don't let the door hit you in the ass as you leave the
building.

For the rest of you, the most illuminating, even-handed review
of abduction theories (ranging from the psychosocial to the
literalist) yet published, in my opinion as an abduction
agnostic, is by psychologist and UFO researcher Prof. Stuart
Appelle, and it appears in Journal of UFO Studies 6 (1995/1996):
29-78. Its title is "The Abduction Experience: A Critical
Evaluation of Theory and Evidence." It is available from CUFOS,
and I recommend it to anybody who wonders what a model of
balanced scholarship on this vexing subject looks like. I fully
concur with Appelle's conclusion. Here's the abstract:

"Prevalent hypotheses regarding the etiology of the abduction
experience are examined, especially in regard to the existing
evidence. Deception, suggestibility (fantasy-proneness,
hypnotizability, false-memory syndrome), personality, sleep
phenomena, psychopathology, psychodynamics, environmental
factors, and event-level alien encounters are each considered as
origins of the abduction experience. The data are discussed in
terms of what is and is not consistent with theory, the concept
of parsimony, and the need for converging lines of evidence in
establishing linkages between fact and theory. On the basis of
this analysis, it is argued that no theory yet enjoys enough
empirical support to be accepted as a general explanation for
the abduction experience. The concept of the abduction
experience as a multicausal phenomenon is discussed, and
suggestions for future research are provided."


Jerry Clark








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                           Filers Files #16 - 2004

From: George A. Filer <Majorstar.nul>
Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 17:21:42 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 22:42:45 -0400
Subject: Filers Files #16 - 2004


Filers Files #16 - 2004 Skywatch Investigations
George A. Filer, Director MUFON Eastern
April 7, 2004, Webmaster: Chuck Warren

If photos don't show up in email, try

www.georgefiler.com/ "Weekly files" Views

There is Life in Space

Mars Green And Blue Areas Indicate Life, Mars Has a New Pyramid,
Bunny and Maybe a Lizard, New York =96 Disc Spins By, New Jersey =96
UFO's & Abduction,tPennsylvania - Brilliant Rectangle Shaped
UFO, Virginia - A Metallic Oval Object, Florida =96 Three moving
lights, Ohio - Bright Lights, Nebraska =96 Pilot Sees UFO, Montana
=96 Two Saucers, California =96 UFO Photographed, Canada - Two
Round Discs, UK/England - Dark Shape, and Turkey =96 Governor
Deputy Video Tapes UFO. NASA's Zone of Exclusion.

Mars =96 Green and Blue Areas Indicate Life

Dr.Serguei M. Pershin, Ph.D., an Investigator for the NASA Mars
Polar Lander LIDAR experiment, claims he has discovered organic
pigments on Mars relating to ancient photosynthetic organisms.
These  discoveries of organic pigments on Mars indicate that
life is present, or at least was present at one time on the
planet. During the Hesperian period of lakes and rivers on Mars,
there would have been sufficient energy input from solar
radiation to support life with the characteristics of the
cyanobacteria that dominate many terrestrial and aquatic
habitats on Earth such as Antarctica. Other new green and blue
images from the European Space Command point to life now on Mars
or in the past. Recent Hubble images show the planet turning
green in the southern hemisphere as the South Pole melts. For
more than a hundred years astronomers have reported the greening
of the planet each spring.

Bonneville Crater, Bunny, and Lizard

When a meteorite slams into the ground and creates a crater, it
throws surface debris out to the sides called ejecta, revealing
the older, mostly buried material. In the case of Bonneville
crater this explosion apparently hit a temple or settlement
throwing carved stone, and rock into the air from the ancient
settlement nick named Gavesak. It was hoped the ancient rock
within the crater would show scientists how the area formed.
Instead the Filer Research Institute has found the remnants of
an ancient alien settlement. This discovery essentially changes
history of the universe, and we now have strong evidence that
intelligent life once existed on Mars.

I suspect JPL also saw the evidence of Gavesak, when it started
to enter the ejecta field from Bonneville crater on January 24,
and suddenly communication with the =91Spirit=92 Rover stopped for
about a week. Bonneville crater is a small crater several
hundred meters across and relatively young and is situated
within the two billion year old and much larger Gusev crater.
Gusev contained a succession of lakes, had channel flooding and
even a river once ran through it.

Gusev, as with all large impact craters, would have made deep
fractures in the ground that allowed heat to reach the surface
and might have led to hydrothermal activity. Thus, we have many
reasons Gavesak was an ideal site for an ancient Martian
settlement. Viking 7 rovers located algae and water vapor and
even a letter B. It now appears the laboratory tests also found
primitive life as Dr. Levin insists. Any civilization requires
some type of food and algae would not be enough to support
intelligent life. Observation is the key to discovery in science
and we may have found a structure such as this four sided
pyramid.

The presence of possible alien artifacts on Mars is one of the
most provocative enigmas ever confronted by science. Hundreds of
aerial images have shown faces, pyramids, animals and even
possible cities. It has been easy for JPL up to now to refute
these claims from hundreds of miles above Mars. Low resolution
images, camera angle, communications glitches could cause some
of the enigmas. Certain shapes such as triangles do not occur in
planetary surface geology. Yet we are collecting examples of
triangles and pyramids not normally found in nature. Our
findings disrupt numerous scientific theroies about Mars and
will not be easily accepted in the scientific world.

One of our expert photographers has located a lizard like animal
sunning on top of a rock? This backs up a previous similar
fossil like finding of a similar animal. Notice the white object
that is apparently round and one inch below on the left.

Thanks to JPL. Rocks are normally round not rectangular shape.

Many civilizations erect statues to their leaders and gods. We
know that nature can make various symbols and faces by accident,
but we have now located dozens of possibilities.

Once again we have indications of artificiality.aA second bunny
like object has been found. Note that there is a track of
disturbed ground behind it. Wind on Mars is very marginal, so
most likely the object moved under its own power. We are happy
to present our findings to any university or interested group.
As suggested by many readers, stones have cracks in them,
sunlight can create images and the like. However, in almost
every case JPL has multiple images of our findings. We encourage
unbiased inquiry but it is my opinion backed by some excellent
scientists who have encouraged me that they also see a complete
ecosystem on Mars.

1P133516670EFF0830P2218R7M1.JPG.html  bunny

It now appears that Mars had a civilization and perhaps still
has although it would have to have gone underground or moved.

This brings up the possibility that we are Martians, or they are
hiding on Planet Earth or aboard some large orbiting space
ships. I freely admit these ideas are rather amazing, but with
reasonable certainty that life on Mars exists we now know that
at least two planets in our solar system has life. Astronomers
have found over a hundred solar systems, and believe that at
least half have earth like planets. Therefore, there is likely
several hundred civilizations in our area of universe. Our sun
is relatively young, and most likely these civilizations are
much older than our own, and many may have the capability for
visiting us. We regularly receive 400 UFO reports per month. To
escape from the gravity of Mars to reach Earth is relatively
simple and could have been accomplished by reaching a speed of
about 10,000 mph.

There are billions of stars much older than the Sun in our
galaxy; and therefore many other planet=92s civilizations
including Mars were likely millions or at least hundreds of
thousands of years ahead of us. The typical alien intelligence
would be orders of magnitude more intelligent than us. Apes
don't know much about our human civilization and we know little
about the intelligent species visiting earth. London Control
asked my crew to investigate a huge UFO over England, I was able
to pick it up on my aircraft radar so I have first hand
knowledge that other intelligent species exist in our universe.

I receive a steady stream of emails from respected scientists
who see evidence of a Mars eco-system.

Mars was colonized before earth as Carl Sagan told us in his
book, "Intelligent Life in the Universe." Mars was once humid
and had abundant water and oxygen to support life. The Sumerians
tell us they were taught civilization by Oannes and other aliens
from space. The Soviet scientist Alexander Kazantsev insists
that highly advanced creatures from Mars have visited Earth many
times until the present day.

New York =96 Disc Spins By

CANANDAIGUA =96 A couple was talking in their driveway on March
27, 2004, at 6:30 PM, and a disc shaped spinning object caught
their eye. The disc was moving very fast and then shot straight
up in the sky. It made a "zing" sound. The disc was in sight for
a few seconds and then disappeared. Thanks to Peter Davenport
UFOcenter

New Jersey - UFO and Abduction Investigation

NEW BRUNSWICK -- A noiseless, rotating cluster of shiny metal-
 like objects was seen floating at a slow steady pace over a
chapel on Rutgers University. The witness noticed an object
rising in the distance from the direction of the river and Route
18 on March 26, 2004, at 6:15 PM. It had an irregular shape,
like a plastic bag floating in a significant breeze. As the
object kept rising, it moved closer to the witness at a slow
pace. He states, "I watched it until it was directly overhead,
and flying about twice as high as the church steeple." It seemed
to be a cluster of metal objects which were very shiny and
appeared to have shapes like large flat letters (N? S?)

It looked like a cluster of mixed metal chairs or picture frames
about ten feet in diameter rotating as it flew south. As it
passed overhead it made no noise. By the time I rounded the
church, it was very far in the distance beyond the library. I
pointed it out to a student and we watched together as it
continued to rise and move farther south, rotating all the
while. Thanks to Peter Davenport

Mullica Hill - Investigator: Evelyn Galson, reports she has more
data concerning a possible abductee, Ann Francis. About five
years ago when Ann was outside near her swimming pool one night,
she saw an object flying above her. It was an oblong oval and it
was huge. She could see that the stars were being blocked by the
hovering unidentified object that was dark underneath. Fourteen
years ago on Route 322 in Williamstown, N.J. Ann saw a silver
ship with a dome shaped top. It had landed in a field across
from an Asphalt Plant.

One day Ann was having an argument with her husband and she was
getting very upset, in frustration she threw up her arms and
when she did the TV blew up. Ann has found bruises on her arms
after an abduction and sometimes there were bruises on her hips
towards the back. One day Ann woke up and her arm and face on
the right side were red, as if she was out in the sun too long.
Seventeen years ago, Ann remembers being on a space ship and saw
children around the ages of 12 or 13 years. She said they looked
part human and part alien. Their eyes were slightly too big,
they were pale and gaunt faced with high cheek bones. She
believes they are hybrids. Ann said that in five generations of
her family, there was only one child born to a family and it was
a boy.

Interesting, her step-father was present during the famous
Carteret, N.J. sighting and most other members of her family
have seen UFOs. One month after her daughter was born. Ann
remembers seeing lights moving in the woods behind her house in
the evenings. In conclusion, Ann was taught how to control her
heart rate and how to put herself into a relaxed state of mind,
in order to remember more of her experiences. As she remembers
more of her experiences and relates them to me, I will put them
in my next report. Thanks to: Investigator: Evelyn Galson

Pennsylvania - Brilliant Rectangle UFO

LANCASTER =96 The witness reports seeing a rectangle shaped light
on March 28, 2004, at 11:10: PM, that was bright but "fuzzy." It
appeared in the west, came closer and then shot straight up
vertically until out of sight. It all happened in about 8
seconds, and it really moved fast. Thanks to Peter Davenport
UFOcenter

Virginia -- A Metallic Oval Object

PORTSMOUTH -- There was one craft, that looked like a metallic
oval shaped balloon with a cone shape on the underside on March
28, 2004, at 4:45 PM. , It moved across the sky in a smooth
rapid speed and then suddenly stopped and hovered. At that point
we moved behind a building for 15 seconds and by the time we got
on the other side it was gone. The sky was open for miles in
many directions but it disappeared. There was an airline jet in
the background coming in for a landing at ORF and a bird in
closer, so it couldn't have been that high in the air. It was
very visible and looked exactly like the #44 photo at:
(http://www.ufoevidence.org/Photographs/Photo44.htm. Thanks to
Peter Davenport UFOcenter

Georgia =96 Flying Triangle Investigation

DULUTH --David Brown SSD Field Investigator reports he
interviewed a lady who had seen a large flying triangle glide by
on January 7, 2004, at 7:30 PM. While returning home she noticed
an extremely bright white light originating in the northwest
directly under the bright moon. As the object approached the
witness saw that the craft was not a conventional aircraft as it
glided by the driver=92s side of the vehicle. The object was a
huge triangular object the size of one to one and a half
football fields in length. (450 feet). The sighting lasted about
five minutes and when she returned home she called the Gwinnett
and Duluth Georgia Police Departments. She also contacted the
Channel 11 local news and MUFON. The object was flying at 130
feet just above the tree tops and moving at 40 mph. The speed
was determined as the object kept pace with her vehicle and she
had looked at her speedometer that was reading 40 mph.

The large wing was sharp gray/silver and had four extremely
large, white protruding lights similar to fluorescent tubes
surrounded by what appeared as suction cups. She followed the
object and noticed it began to ascend to the northeast and
banked sharply back to the northwest and she could see the
underside more clearly. Her radio was playing and the craft did
not effect electrical parts of the vehicle or her radio. Dobbins
Air Reserve Base is 25 miles to the northwest. Dobbins
Information Offices were contacted but they provided no
information. There are no known military craft that match this
description although experimental lighter than air craft may
perform as described by the witness. The craft is labeled as an
unknown.

Editor=92s Note: I wish to thank Tom Sheets GAMUFON State Director
and David Brown SSD for their excellent work.

Florida =96 Three Moving Lights

NAPLES -- Sitting on the beach on March 28, 2004, at 10:50 PM, a
couple saw a bright light flash on the horizon as if it was
signaling a light up north towards Sanibel Island. The northern
light glowed bright enough to see a reflection in the water and
then all of the sudden it slowly split into three glowing
objects. One went right and one went left leaving the original
duller light in the same place. The light on the right went
faster and flew out of sight. The one on the left stopped and
returned to the original light and made it glow. At that moment
the one on the horizon blinked again. The north light
disappeared leaving a dark spot. After four minutes the light on
the horizon blinked again and the light to the north reappeared.
It glowed so bright this time that we compared it to the full
moon because the reflection on the water. The light then split
into three objects again and formed a triangle. The northern
light moved across the sky slowly then darted out of sight. At
that point we left the beach and told my friend=92s parents.
UFOcenter

BRADENTON -- On March 26, 2004, at 7:50 PM, while trying to find
the five planet alignment near the moon, a father and his 13
year old son noticed two saucers rapidly heading east towards
them over the Palma Sola Bay. The almond-shaped saucers appeared
to be racing one another, side by side, but sometimes crossed
each others paths. They were quite large, without lights or
sound and grayish in color and had a haze surrounding them..
When they were positioned just under the moon, they turned
sharply and headed south. It looked like they briefly slowed
down over the baseball park lights and then headed southbound.
When they were side by side, they were in identical formation.

Once or twice when they crossed in front of each other, but
quickly went side by side again. We watched them head south
bound until we could not see them any longer from our balcony.
The sky was quite clear, 72 degree temperature with a light
breeze coming off of the bay. There were some distant planes
flying but none moved as fast. They were much larger than a
plane at 40 thousand feet and flew as low as 20 thousand feet.
They darted up and down and horizontally directly in front of us
for less than a minute and then darted over towards the baseball
park and seemed to almost stop for thirty seconds. Then, they
sharply flew north, then took a serious turn and headed south
very quickly. Thanks to Peter Davenport UFOcenter

Ohio - Bright Lights

CHESAPEAKE =96 A couple saw a line of hovering lights in the sky
on March 28, 2004, at 9:30 PM. They live near a landing strip,
so it is not unusual to see planes around. They stated, "This
did not look like a plane, my girlfriend had been watching the
object and said that the lights on the object changed
formation." I did not catch that, but I did see the three lights
aligned in a straight line. Thanks to Peter Davenport UFOcenter

Nebraska =96 Pilot Sees UFO

OMAHA =96 This report is from an air traffic controller for
Minneapolis Center, that reported on March 25, 2004, at 1900
hours the pilot of an air carrier that was under my control
reported two flights of two aircraft. There were no other
aircraft in the vicinity at the time. He said they were 15 miles
in front of him at 35,000 feet traveling away from him in a
westerly direction. The UFO's stayed out in front of his
aircraft for fifteen minutes until the pilot said that the UFO's
were so far out in front of him that he could hardly see them
anymore. After being relieved of my duties I reported to my
supervisor who put me in contact with the Military Air Defense.
The person at the other end of the phone said that they saw no
objects in the area of this aircraft. Thanks to Peter Davenport

((NUFORC Note: The FAA Air Traffic Controller, and his
supervisor confirmed that no radar returns were visible! PD))

Montana =96 Two Saucers

PLAINS -- On March 27 6:23 PM, the witness reports that he and
Jumbo saw two oval shaped and brightly lit saucers flying south
overhead. They were large metallic disks with lights flying
above our heads. Thanks to Peter Davenport UFOcenter

California =96 UFO Photographed

MODESTO =96 R. David Anderson writes, "I am continuing to see
UFO's at my place of residence and I got a couple of pictures
yesterday that are similar to the ones I took last weekend.
Something flashed in my eyes as I was looking between two trees
where I have taken photos earlier.  It was an intense flash of
light that left a strong after image on my eye. I have never
before encountered anything like this. I shot one around 4 PM,
with my new 4.3 digital camera. I saw the UFO to the north
flying at about 30 mph and it was probably about 250 feet high.
I picked up the camera and began to take pictures, following its
movement as it went from the northern sky to the eastern sky in
about 45 seconds.

Thanks to R. David Anderson.

Canada --Two Round Discs

CALGARY =96 On March 28, 2004, at 5:10 PM, the witness looking
into the sky at the Confederation driving range was watching a
ball when he saw the first object moving across the sky at a
high rate of speed. He pointed it out to two friends and they
all tracked it. As they watched it move across the sky - they
noticed a second one in front of it. They were moving at such an
incredible rate of speed that they simply vanished into the
distance. The witness states, "The two objects were circular in
shape and had a silver metallic color to them." Thanks to Brian
Vike, Director HBCC Research. email: hbccufo.nul Website:
http://www.hbccufo.com

UK/England - Dark Shape

HARWICH, ESSEX =96 The witness was driving home from the shops and
his girl friend said, "Look" as she is pointed to an object not
to far away. It was March 29, 2004, at 11:15: PM, when they got
a glimpse of dark bubbly shaped craft. It looked like it had
different round pods or parts, and was just showing through the
low clouds. My girl friend got a really good look and she was
freaked out, because she doesn=92t believe in UFO's. When we
stopped the car it had gone. Thanks to Peter Davenport UFOcenter

Turkey =96 Governor Deputy Videos UFO

Adana -- Milliyet Newspaper reports that Caner Yildiz, the
Governor Deputy of Adana, had seen a luminous object in the sky
on April 1, 2004, at 9:04 PM. He states, "First I thought it was
a bright star that I had never seen before, so I started to
record it on my camera for about 20 minutes." "It was moving
very fast, sometimes zigzagging; becoming bigger and smaller,"
he said. "The bottom part was dark, and the upper part was white
with sharp projecting points which resembled honeycombs. It
would disappear when observed with the naked eye then would
appear again. On the camera, it would look as small as a pin top
then in 2-3 seconds it would grow as big as an orange. It looked
like a flying saucer". Chairman Haktan Akdogan and the Sirius
UFO Space Sciences Research Center has concluded this was a
UFO". The footage will be studied at Cukurova University. Thanks
to Esen Sekerkarar MUFON Representative for Turkey
esensk.nul

Zone Of Exclusion

Jeff Challender =96 Director Project P.R.O.V.E. writes, "There is
a place on the far side of the world, which NASA refers to as
the "Z.O.E.", or Zone Of Exclusion. This is an area in which
NASA claims there is no communication with spacecraft. This
despite the presence of a US Space Command Base on the Island of
Diego Garcia, and a Tracking Data and Relay Satellite (TDRS-3)
in a Geosynchronous orbit high above.

The so called Zone of Exclusion using evidence from NASA itself,
is a myth. The previous lack of communication facilities there
was rectified as early as March 1994. Over the last two years, I
have noticed that during at least one Shuttle flight in June
2002, and on two separate occasions involving the International
Space Station in February 2004, NASA has established zones of
exclusion in unusual locales. During the flight of STS-111, in
June 2002, one of these inexplicable zones was declared by a
NASA television commentator to be just a few hundred miles due
east of the New Jersey seashore where it was in range of Wallops
Island, Cape Canaveral, and the Bahamas Tracking Station.

The stated reason for this was that Endeavour was "Out of Range"
of the NASA communications network. No hardware malfunction or
antenna shadowing, but OUT OF RANGE! To this writer, that seems
to be impossible! During the flight of STS-92 in October 2000,
the television equipment aboard failed some seven hours into the
flight. What little television was made available to the public
on that mission was relayed in part from Wallops Island. Now,
let us fast forward to 2004. The date was the 19th of February,
and the ISS crew was preparing for bed. As is often done to fill
these times when the crew is unavailable for live TV, a
videotape of the previous day=92s activities was being run. The
time was approximately 10:28 AM CST, when the commentator
announced that the station had gone "OUT OF RANGE" of the NASA
communications network. In almost the same breath, he also
informed us that ISS was orbiting at about 240 statute miles
over EASTERN CANADA. Here are the exact words of the NASA
commentator.



"At this hour, as the International Space Station flies at about
two hundred and forty miles over uh Eastern Canada, the station
is outside of the range of communication with uh the flight
control teams, and uh, but is expected to uh move back into
communications uh shortly." As one can see, this is not an
ambiguous statement. The announcer is very clear that this is
not an issue with malfunctioning equipment, or "dish shadowing."
He clearly states that ISS is "Out Of Range".  The region, which
includes the east coast, and upper mid-western states of the US,
is replete with ground facilities. There is also the Atlantic
TDRS in easy reach from this location. Why did NASA pass this
falsehood on to the viewing public? Finally, there was one more
recent case of the same sort of inexcusable lie. During the ISS
space walk of 26 February 2004, ISS was flying over the ground
station based in Hawaii when the announcer stated that, ISS had
passed "Out Of Range" of the communications network! How can
this be? The Hawaiian station is capable of handling any form of
ISS signal, be it radio, telemetry, or TV.

http://yorkshireufoinfo.homestead.com/NASAsecrecyZOE.html

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   UFO UpDates
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   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   Apr > Apr 7

                    Re: Aliens Prefer Grolsch Beer - Pope

From: Nick Pope <nick.nul>
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 23:37:51 +0100
Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 22:45:16 -0400
Subject: Re: Aliens Prefer Grolsch Beer - Pope


>From: Chris Rutkowski <rutkows.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 11:47:15 -0500 (CDT)
>Subject: Aliens Prefer Grolsch Beer

>If you haven't yet been convinced that UFOs and aliens are part
>of our pop culture, take a look at the multifaceted marketing
>campaign of Grolsch Beer that has just been launched (pun fully
>intended):

>www.grolsch.co.uk

Chris and List,

This is, as you say, an interesting example of how UFO and alien
abduction imagery is part of the popular culture. It's not the
first advertisement to use this concept. Remember the 1992 AT&T
advertisement featuring a picture of a golf cart being drawn up
a beam of light towards a UFO? The slogan was "At a time like
this, whose cellular phone would you rather own?". The
advertisement is reproduced on page 224 of "Alien Discussions",
the proceedings of the abduction study conference held at MIT in
June 1992. There was a similar advertisement in the UK, run by
Royal Insurance. A car is pictured being drawn up a beam of
light towards a UFO. Two witnesses are looking at this, and a
speech bubble has one saying "You'd better ring the Royal".

The new television advertisement for Grolsch lager is both
clever and funny. It's been shown on UK TV already, but the
campaign doesn't really start until tomorrow (8 April). I've
been working with the advertising agency on some of the tie-in
publicity, including a lighthearted booklet entitled "How to be
Abducted by Aliens". I'm likely to be criticised for this, as I
was criticised in 1998, when I was featured in an advertisement
for One 2 One cell phones, saying that I'd like to have a one to
one with an alien. Interestingly, while ufologists got upset,
UFO witnesses and abductees were supportive.

Abductees seem to have more of a sense of humor about this sort
of thing than ufologists. I remember John Mack giving a
thoughtful and academic lecture about abductions. I think it was
at the Intruders Foundation conference in New York in May 2000.
Towards the end, he showed a humorous slide listing ten reasons
to suspect that you've been abducted by aliens. One read "You
went to sleep in Manhattan and woke up in a cornfield in
Illinois". Another read "You just realise you've accumulated 30
billion frequent flier miles". The abductees were laughing
louder than anyone.


Best wishes,

Nick Pope








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   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   Apr > Apr 7

              Re: Why I Support Alien Abduction Study - Harney

From: John Harney <magonia.nul>
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 23:57:46 +0100
Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 22:48:14 -0400
Subject: Re: Why I Support Alien Abduction Study - Harney


>From: Cathy Reason <CathyM.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 23:04:58 +0100
>Subject: Re: Why I Support Alien Abduction Study

>>From: John Harney <magonia.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 19:14:32 +0100
>>Subject: Re: Why I Support Alien Abduction Study
>>What other possible explanation could there be? I have never seen
>>any rational, coherent theory offered to describe the UFO
>>abduction phenomenon except for those which atttempt to describe
>>it in psychological and sociological terms.

>Surely we should know better by now than to expect the universe
>to conform to the limits of human imagination. I have yet to
>hear of any coherent theory offered to explain the UFO abduction
>phenomenon which wasn't largely speculative, and that includes
>those which "attempt to describe it in psychological or
>sociological terms".

>I have no difficulty in imagining all kinds of coherent theories
>to account for UFO abductions, some psychological, some
>neurological and some completely off the wall, but all of them
>are entirely speculative and none of them is supported by any
>evidence worth the name. As to whether they're "rational" or
>not, I have absolutely no idea what that is supposed to mean in
>the current context.

I can't understand this problem with the term "rational". For
example, if someone asked me how I got out of my flat
(apartment) on the 3rd (4th) floor and I said that I walked down
the stairs or that I took the lift (elevator) then these would
be rational answers. But if I said that I climbed out of the
window and jumped down into the street because that was the
quickest way down, then most people would say that this was
irrational. We have the same problem with abduction experts, but
it seems that is politically incorrect to challenge their
nonsensical statements.

>>Condon's approach to the UFO problem certainly seemed somewhat
>>biased, so that many people seem to forget that some of the
>>investigators were obviously puzzled by some of the data they
>>obtained. Also, I think it is worth quoting this paragraph from
>>Condon's conclusions in his report, as so many UFO believers
>>conveniently overlook it:

>>"If [scientists] agree with our conclusions, they will turn
>>their valuable attention and talents elsewhere. If they disagree
>>it will be because our report has helped them reach a clear
>>picture of wherein existing studies are faulty or incomplete and
>>thereby will have stimulated ideas for more accurate studies. If
>>they do get such ideas and can formulate them clearly, we have
>>no doubt that support will be forthcoming to carry on with such
>>clearly-defined, specific studies. We think that such ideas for
>>work should be supported."

>>This is surely what the Goldsmiths College team is trying to do,
>>unlike the credulous mob who have nothing to offer but slogans,
>>buzz-phrases and pseudo-scientific mumbo-jumbo.

>I sympathize with this view to some extent, but I see a rather
>obvious problem here. There are certainly many who could argue
>(and I would for one) that "the credulous mob who have nothing
>to offer but slogans, buzz-phrases and pseudo-scientific mumbo-
>jumbo" is a pretty accurate description of the social sciences,
>psychology and sociology included. This leads on to a problem
>I've had with the whole "psychosocial" approach to Ufology for
>some time now, which is that it appears to apply one standard of
>evidence to Ufology itself (and a perfectly reasonable one in my
>view) but another, altogether more lax, standard to the social
>sciences from which it draws most of its concepts and evidence.
>Worse still, it seems to me that the conceptual basis of
>psychosocial Ufology has more to do with the cultural flotsam
>which floats around the arts and humanities and has its origins
>more in pseudoscientific doctrines such as psychoanalysis,
>rather than anything that could honestly be called scientific.

This is a very good point. The social sciences are "soft" rather
than "hard" science. I get the impression that there is much
more scepticism in Britain about psychology and psychiatry than
there is in the USA, which means that such techniques as
polygraph tests and hypnotic regression are less likely to be
taken seriouslly. Also, in Britain people are unlikely to
consult psychiatrists for trivial reasons. So we have problems
not only of "soft" science but also cultural differences.

>As an aside, many perception researchers would argue that most
>of the useful and important work on human perception (a field of
>enormous relevance to Ufology) has actually been done in the
>fields of psychophysics and neuroscience, and not in the
>overarching computational/cognitive paradigm of traditional
>psychology which seems to be far more prominent in the minds of
>psychosocial Ufologists.

I suspect that work on human perception and neurophysiology is
quite likely to provide some useful clues to the nature of
"abductee" experiences and other strange perceptions. We should
certainly not make the mistake of regarding such problems as
being simple.

>I've met Chris French and in my view he has a thoroughly
>professional approoach to the work he does, but in the end he is
>subject to the constraint of his discipline, which is that there
>is an inherent tension between objectivity and thoroughness in
>any social sciences research. The statistical methods of the
>social sciences require one to formulate clear and narrowly
>focused hypotheses in advance of having any data to speak of
>(not that this is necessarily what happens, but it is always
>what is supposed to happen) and this means that one doesn't have
>the flexibility to follow the data in the way you seem to be
>suggesting.  Human behavior covers large, unclosed sets of
>possibilities and is anything but simple or deterministic, and
>yet social science research assumes small, closed sets of
>hypotheses and simple, deterministic dymanics -- unless you are
>using a qualitative approach such as ethnomethodology, in which
>case questions will arise as to how objective and scientific
>your approach really is. From what I know of Chris French, he
>won't be using ethnomethodology.

I agree with what you seem to be saying, that Chris French and
his team seem to be underestimating the difficulties involved in
producing a coherent description of the abduction syndrome.
However, it is possible that they may provide some data which
will inspire further research.


John Harney








   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   Apr > Apr 7

                Re: Another Metallic Sound On ISS - McGonagle

From: Joe McGonagle <joe.mcgonagle.nul>
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 00:07:08 +0100
Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 22:49:49 -0400
Subject: Re: Another Metallic Sound On ISS - McGonagle


>From: John Scheldroup <jschel.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 10:46:04 -0500
>Subject: Re: Another Metallic Sound On ISS

<snip>

>The other thing is the velocity of small particle "debris". If I
>take a beer can and place it into my can crusher and slowly pull
>down on the handle, it would seem that for every little piece of
>noise generated, each will have more time then the next to
>become absorbed and richochet elsewhere in the room. A very
>noisy sound indeed, but if I pulled down on the handle a little
>faster this time we again have the same noise only acting out in
>less time.

Ahh! You got it in one!

It must have been a passing flying saucer jettisoning their
empty Grolsch cans!

:-)

Joe








                         The UFO UpDates Archive
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   Apr > Apr 7

                      Re: 'UFO' Over Ottawa - Balaskas

From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul>
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 19:57:10 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 22:51:32 -0400
Subject: Re: 'UFO' Over Ottawa - Balaskas


>From: Chris Rutkowski <rutkows.nul>
>To: ufoinfo.nul, errol.nul, canufo.nul
>Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 09:14:45 -0500 (CDT)
>Subject: 'UFO' Over Ottawa

>U.F.O. Seen Over Ottawa

>Kris Sims
>Tuesday, April 6, 2004

>Several residents of the Ottawa area reported seeing an
>Unidentified Flying Object Monday Night.

>One caller to CFRA 580 said it was a large, bright, white ball
>of light that travelled northeast at around 8 o'clock.

>Denis Legault has been sky-watching for 27 years with the Ottawa
>Valley Astronomy Group, he says the object was probably a piece
>of space rock that was too large to burn up right away in the
>upper atmosphere. Legault says the particles of dust and rock
>create a brilliant flash of light as they ignite and
>disintegrate in the lower atmosphere.

>Ottawa ranks second in Canada for the number of UFOs reported
>each year. Vancouver reports the most.

Hi Everyone!

In a recent news story, Chris Rutkowski confirmed that the pilot
of the Prime Minister's aircraft reported an unidentified object
to air traffic controllers while flying near CFB Suffield on
Sunday night, March 21. Many sightings of bright fireballs were
made that same evening all across Canada but if the times for
all these UFO sightings were correct, taking the different time
zones and other details into account, these reports could not
possibly be explained by a single fireball.

The March 21 UFO sightings could be explained as several bright
noteworthy fireballs that seemed to some witnesses to have
crashed nearby but since the UFO sighting by the PM's pilot was
made while he was flying over CFB Suffield, a secret Canadian
UFO landing site, we should not be too quick to rule any other
explanations. The connection with Suffield was also made by
Errol Bruce-Knapp on his radio talk show about UFOs, 'Strange
Days... Indeed' last Saturday night.

Paul Hellyer, past Canadian Minister of Defense and now leader
of the Canadian Action Party, is the primary source for the
secret Canadian UFO landing site in the early 1950s (not to be
confused with the 1967 UFO landing pad built in St. Paul,
Alberta for Canada's 100th anniversary). Hellyer is living in
Toronto and with Federal elections coming up soon, I think he
could be coaxed to reveal further details about Canada's
involvement with UFOs and ETs. A friend of Hellyer's even called
Errol's radio show on UFOs a while back who thought he could get
him to talk about UFOs on the show.

Below is a short excerpt from Grant Cameron's web page that
gives us a few of the known facts about this secret Canadian UFO
landing site. I wonder if Canada was able to lure the occupants
of two other "meteors" that entered Earth orbit in 1952 which
caused much excitement in the U.S. according to 'Aviation Week'
and other publications. And these were not the only pre-Sputnik
"meteors" detected orbiting our planet.....


Nick Balaskas

----------

http://www.presidentialufo.com/top_secret_committee.htm

Did the Canadians Have a Top Secret Flying Saucer Program?

In 1978, during my meeting with Murl Smith, the wife of Wilbert
Smith, the director of the official Canadian investigation into
flying saucers known as Project Magnet, she told me of the
efforts by the Canadians to land an alien by the name of AFFA at
the Top Secret Defense Research Board Station at Suffield,
Alberta.

The three groups that were involved in the negotiations for the
government, according to Mrs. Smith were "the government" (then
Prime Minister Louis St. Laurent was mentioned in this regard),
the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, and the Defense Department.

The inclusion of the Prime Minister on such a committee makes





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   Apr > Apr 7

                  Re: Pilot Sightings 1963-1975 - Friedman

From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul>
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 21:13:21 -0300
Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 22:53:02 -0400
Subject: Re: Pilot Sightings 1963-1975 - Friedman


>From: James Smith <zeus001002.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 10:24:35 -0400 (GMT-04:00)
>Subject: Pilot Sightings 1963-1975

>Anyone ever look at the load of data from pilots as part of
>Moonwatch?

>-----

>"The Volunteer Flight Officer Network (VFON) was established in
>1963 by Denver Moonwatch team leader Herbert E. Roth to collect
>eyewitness reports of satellites and meteor sightings from
>airline pilots and other flight personnel.

>Roth was employed by United Air Lines, which agreed to support
>the project by providing printing and mailing funds. In 1965 the
>VFON became affiliated with Moonwatch, which advised Roth and
>assumed a part of the mailing expenses.

>In 1969 Moonwatch assumed complete administrative control of the
>VFON under a contract with the United States Air Force. Before
>its termination in 1975, the VFON had grown to include the
>employees of 118 airlines in 57 countries and had collected
>approximately 4200 observations.

>... files maintained for each member airline in the VFON,
>correspondence with airlines that refused to join, and the
>approximately 4200 sighting reports submitted to the VFON. Some
>reports were filed according to... the type of the sighting
>(satellite re-entry, meteor, unprocessed, or other)... Each
>folder also contains... acknowledgments of reports, and
>discussions of unusual sightings."

>-----

>Available at the Smithsonian Archives (paper only!)

I wonder if Narcap has added these materials to its files. Herb
Roth's involvement was known many years ago. Would make a great
program for TV... highlights of pilot sightings for those who
think there is no solid evidence and no reports from reputable
people.

Stan Friedman








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                      Re: Zeta Reticuli I & II? - Brock

From: Rod Brock <humble98225.nul>
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 17:20:45 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 22:55:14 -0400
Subject: Re: Zeta Reticuli I & II? - Brock


>From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 08:25:10 -0300
>Subject: Re: Zeta Reticuli I & II?

>http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives/dec97/878841087.As.r.html

>The above is way out of date. The Hipparcos Satellite which
>more  recently made a ton of much more accurate stellar
>distance  measurements, showed that the 2 stars are both about
>39 Light Years away and are about 1/8th of a light year apart.
>No problem  with stable planetary orbits around both of them.

What's out of date? The only salient information from the link
above, in regard to Greg's question, is that they are type G
stars, and that they are far enough part that stable planetary
orbits are possible around them. Regarding the distance
revision, 36ly formerly, 39ly more recently, blah, blah, 6-of-
one-half-dozen-of-the-other, when the proposition is crossing
that gulf with spacecraft on a routine basis.

The statement "Here at Project Phoenix, we observed Zet Ret
while we were deployed to the Parkes radio-telescope in
Australia. We didn't detect any radio transmissions..." means
just what it says, and it's certainly not "out of date," simply
because it's several years old. It would be "out of date" if it
were wrong, and if intelligent radio signals had been detected
since Phoenix checked.

Let's sum up: Are there earthlike planets around Zeta Reticuli?
Unknown. Is there an advanced alien race living on a planet or
planets whichs orbit one or both of the component stars of Zeta
Reticuli? Unknown. Do some people believe that there is an
advanced alien race living on a planet which orbits one or both
the component stars of Zeta Reticuli? Yes, most definitely.








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              Re: Why I Support Alien Abduction Study - Sandow

From: Greg Sandow <greg.nul>
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 21:02:29 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 22:59:08 -0400
Subject: Re: Why I Support Alien Abduction Study - Sandow


>From: John Harney <magonia.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 21:24:53 +0100
>Subject: Re: Why I Support Alien Abduction Study

John Harney would do better if he spent his time on subjects he
knew something about.

>An example of an explanation which is not sensible is one
>which I think was devised by a certain B*dd H*pk*ns, who
>asserts that the reason why abductions are not observed and
>recorded by independent witnesses is that such potential
>witnesses are "switched off" for the duration of the abduction.

>If you think that's sensible, then just perform this thought
>experiment. Someone is abducted from a car. But there are
>others nearby so they have to be "switched off". There are
>other people approaching, so they have to get the same
>treatment. The abduction lasts for the standard two hours.
>Meanwhile, the number of of potential witnesses to something
>odd going on is increasing exponentially. You don't have to
>be very good at arithmetic to realise that the whole idea is
>utterly ridiculous.

Well, no. Budd doesn't say this is the only reason why
abductions aren't observed. He also says the aliens can make
themselves invisible. Harney - such a powerful thinker, so well
informed - can say this is nonsense. But the switching off
scenario works very nicely in small places, a family's home, for
instance. One member of a family is abducted from the home. The
others in the family are switched off. No violation of logic
there. Budd certainly doesn't go on to assert that everybody
else in the neighborhood - anybody who might happen to see the
aliens descend on the abductee's home - is switched off, too.

Has Harney actually read any abduction books?

>I think very few make any money out of it, but quite a few
>get lots of attention, but they obviously crave attention.
>Otherwise they would use only serious outlets to publish
>their findings rather than appearing on light entertainment
>TV shows and speaking at crazy UFO conferences. Whatever
>their motives might be, their behaviour is not such as to
>encourage scientists to take their work seriously.

"Obviously crave attention."

Some brief biographies:

Budd Hopkins was a greatly successful painter when he got
interested in UFOs. He destroyed his art career by concentrating
on abductions. His friends - I've seen this first hand -
included not only world-famous artists, but serious thinkers in
many fields, one or two of them very famous, one just about a
household name, at least among intellectuals. Now some of those
people (I've seen this first hand, too) think he's a little
strange. He had all the attention anyone could want, personally
and professionally. He risked it all for UFOs.

David Jacobs was and (as far as I know; haven't talked to him in
a year or so) an immensely popular professor at Temple
University. No shortage of professional attention there, and no
reason he couldn't have advanced himself as a scholar in his
field, which is American history. He's certainly smart enough,
and wonderfully well informed. But instead he studied
abductions, and published abduction books and articles instead
of scholarly papers in history journals. He has tenure at
Temple, but never was promoted to the highest rank of full
professor, and probably never will be. Again you have a man who
didn't lack for attention or success, and damaged his career to
work on abductions.

John Mack is a successful psychiatrist, a professor at Harvard
Medical School, and also the winner of a Pulitzer Prize - one of
the highest honors in America - for a book about T.E. Lawrence.
He published a book about abductions, and almost lost his
position at Harvard. The attention he got from working on
abductions was about the last thing anyone in his position ever
wanted. He had plenty of attention for all his distinguished
work before that.

David Pritchard was (and as far as I know still is) a physicist
at M.I.T. He got attention and respect - not to mention major
funding - for his physics research. He got interested in
abductions. He never went to UFO conferences, unless you could
the private gathering he organized in 1992 with John Mack. He
largely stayed away from the UFO world. He got attention anyway,
more or less the way John Mack did, though without the dire
consequences Mack faced. Although his work on abductions was
impeccably scientific, his physics colleagues started looking at
him strangely. Eventually he dropped out of UFO research.

So, you see... the attention theory won't quite work in these
four cases. Harney will have noticed that they include the three
leading names in abduction research. But of course he knows all
the answers. Doesn't, apparently, know many facts, but knows the
answers anyway. If only he had half the class of Chris French,
who's willing to say, "Maybe I'm wrong."

He's still welcome to call me, and find out what my motivations
were. (But then he probably thinks he knows them without
bothering to talk to me.)

Greg Sandow (who might be wrong about John Harney. Maybe he
really has read abduction books, but just forgets - or wilfully
distorts - what's in them.)








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              Re: Why I Support Alien Abduction Study - Freeman

From: Kelly Freeman <Khfflsciufo.nul>
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 21:52:26 EDT
Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 23:01:56 -0400
Subject: Re: Why I Support Alien Abduction Study - Freeman


>From: John Harney <magonia.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 21:24:53 +0100
>Subject: Re: Why I Support Alien Abduction Survey

>>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 07:50:57 -0500
>>Subject: Re: Why I Support Alien Abduction Study

<snip>

>>Ah, that wonderfully smug pelicanist phrase: "sensible
>>explanations." We all know what_they_are, don't we? The ones
>>that John Harney and his fellow flappers agree with. It's
>>usually joke when someone says, "You can always tell a
>>brilliant guy; he agrees with you." Apparently, John actually
>>_believes_it.

<snip>

>A sensible explanation, Jerry, is one which at least obeys the
>rules of elementary logic. It has nothing to do with certain
>large birds (which Errol has recently indicated that he is fed up
>with reading about). I can assure you it isn't necessary for me
>to consider it a likely explanation. However, I appreciate that
>you obviously prefer what is called "saucer logic", i.e. the more
>absurd the explanation the better.

Mr. Harney,

Just what exactly are your rules of elementary logic? Are they
the rules that had begun to shatter more than 50 years ago? Or
are they the ones that ignore the facts, and rely on wishful
thinking? "Saucer logic"? Logical thinking requires an
examination of _all_the_facts_, _all_the_data_, not just the
convenient tidbits that fit nicely into a preconceived mosaic of
a preferred "explanation". Hint: UFOs _are_ real.

>An example of an explanation which is not sensible is one which I
>think was devised by a certain B*dd H*pk*ns, who asserts that the
>reason why abductions are not observed and recorded by
>independent  witnesses is that such potential witnesses are
>"switched off" for the duration of the abduction.

Devised?..... Please, I am gritting my teeth now.

>If you think that's sensible, then just perform this thought
>experiment. Someone is abducted from a car. But there are others
>nearby so they have to be "switched off". There are other people
>approaching, so they have to get the same treatment. The
>abduction lasts for the standard two hours. Meanwhile, the number
>of potential witnesses to something odd going on is increasing
>exponentially. You don't have to be very good at aritmetic to
>realise that the whole idea is utterly ridiculous.

Please Mr. Harney, _give_me_a_break_.


Kelly F.








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                   Terrace Standard Article: Seeing Things

From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO <hbccufo.nul>
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 18:53:08 -0700
Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 23:05:39 -0400
Subject: Terrace Standard Article: Seeing Things


Terrace Standard News

http://www.terracestandard.com/

April 7, 2004

Seeing Things
by Jennifer Lang

Have you seen anything unusual in the skies over Terrace lately?
You're not alone.

=46rom the Horseshoe to Ferry Island, and from Krumm Road to
Highway 16 West, residents of the Terrace area are seeing weird
things in the sky that no one has been able to explain.

According to the latest annual UFO survey, Terrace remains a
hotbed of activity, accounting for about 10 per cent of all the
sightings reported in B.C. last year Terrace is ranked in fourth
spot in the country for UFO reports, according to the 2003
Canadian UFO Survey.

We're just behind Houston, B.C., Toronto, and Vancouver, which
has emerged as the Canadian UFO capital.

"There's something happening, and I don't know what it is," says
Brian Vike, a Houston, B.C.-based researcher who operates a 1-
800 UFO hot line and sends in data to the UFO survey.

A while back, every time he got a new UFO report from somewhere
in B.C., he'd put a pin into a map of the province he'd hung on
the wall. An unmistakable pattern has emerged.

To Vike, it sure looks like most of the reports are coming from
inside a band that stretches southeast from Terrace to the
Cranbrook area in the Kootenays.

"This is where the majority of sightings of unusual craft are
being seen," he says, adding a number of the locations along
this line are larger lakes, mines and power stations.

"Terrace has a number of natural and manmade things which may
attract these objects," he adds, pointing to Alcan, a relatively
close source of hydro electric power.

The natural thermal power of the hot springs may also be
responsible for local sightings over the years.

"I get lots of reports around there of strange lights," Vike
says, pointing out that seismic activity is sometimes associated
with UFO reports. But that certainly doesn't account for other
unexplained Terrace area reports Vike's logged over the past
year.

In February, 2003 a couple driving home from Prince Rupert
spotted a huge, disk-shaped object travelling north across the
Skeena River, about 85 km west of Terrace on Highway 16

It was dark, with two large, rectangular glowing lights on the
bottom.

The husband wanted to pull over, but his wife insisted they keep
driving, Vike says. Both were disturbed because the object moved
so slowly.

In March of last year, a Tuck Ave. resident noticed a bright
glowing object in the sky above the Eby St. intersection that
looked like a meteor hurtling down to the ground.

The eyewitness said it was moving from side to side, and didn't
make any noise.

In July, a couple with a great view of Terrace and the Skeena
Valley was enjoying the view, relaxing with cup of coffee.

At around 11:45 p.m., they saw a large, glowing object moving
slowly along the side of the highway near the 16/37
intersection. At first they thought it was some sort of
aircraft. because it kept pace with some of the cars. But then
they realized it was flying too low.

It appeared to stop suddenly before shooting off towards the
west.

Other witnesses reported seeing a flying cross =96 a huge, dark-
coloured object with lights along the bottom panels =96 above the
Skeena River.

The sighting lasted for just a few seconds, before the object
flew behind some trees, blocking their view

Vike is convinced people are seeing something. He just doesn't
know what.

Last year, Canadians reported nearly two UFO sightings a day,
adding up to 673 in all.

That's an all-time high for the Canadian UFO Survey, released by
Ufology Research of Manitoba, an independent study group based
in Winnipeg.

Most UFO reports are eventually identified as planets, meteors,
or aircraft.

"Popular opinion to the contrary, there is yet to be any
incontrovertible evidence that some UFO cases involve
extraterrestrial contact," study author Chris Rutkowski said.

Just seven per cent of sightings in the survey's "unexplained"
category are deemed "high quality" unknowns.

Many eyewitnesses are pilots, police and other individuals who
are expected to have good observational skills =96 and good
judgment, Rutkowski said.

Nation-wide, the number of UFO sightings climbed by 39 per cent
in 2003. British Columbia leads the rest of the country in terms
of sheer volume of sightings, with 304 reported here last year,
compared to 150 in Ontario and 76 in Alberta.

Most sightings have two witnesses and last for 10 minutes.

Mass sightings sometimes stem from a big event =96 like a major
fireball in 1993 that hundreds across Canada witnessed.

Similarly, last year, a major event in the Okanagan helped boost
the number of sightings. "Literally hundreds of people" saw a
band of white light arching across the sky" on July 28, the
report says. That mass sighting is unexplained, but some think
it may be a phenomenon long-time residents call the Okanagan
Arch, a whitish band that crosses the sky.

The reports offer no "positive proof that UFOs are either alien
spacecraft or a specific natural phenomenon," the report
cautions, but notes something people call a UFO is continually
being observed.

Various agencies and individuals participate in the survey,
including the Houston, B.C., Centre for UFOs, which supplied
seven per cent of the reports in this year's survey.

Vike, meanwhile, says the northwest's growing reputation as a
UFO magnet, is resulting in a tourism boom. He fields many calls
from people who want to visit the region.

That's why he's started to showcase the region's natural and
tourist attractions on his website.

"I get lots of letters about the beautiful scenery," he says.
"That's what's catching people's attention, too. They're saying,
'Yeah, I'm coming up your way.' People are saying, 'This sounds
good =96 you've got fishing and hiking.'"

He can't understand why the towns of Terrace and Houston don't
capitalize on their reputations as great places to see UFOs.

Vike is in demand as a guest on talk radio shows in the U.S. He
also runs his own website, tracking the reports from northwest
B.C. =96 and far beyond. "I reach about 13 million people now a
month," he says


Brian Vike
Director
HBCC UFO Research
Home - Phone 250 845 2189
email: hbccufo.nul
Website: http://www.hbccufo.com








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              Re: Radio Search For ET Draws A Blank - Stanford

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 23:03:13 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 23:12:08 -0400
Subject: Re: Radio Search For ET Draws A Blank - Stanford


>From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 08:43:12 -0300
>Subject: Re: Radio Search For ET Draws A Blank

>>From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 23:58:20 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
>>Subject: Re: Radio Search For ET Draws A Blank

><snip>

>>Truth should never be determined by the opinions of the majority
>>(science is not democratic) or what some powerful individuals or
>>institutions proclaim (intellectual tyranny or dictatorship?)
>>but on unbiased interpretations of all the facts even if they do
>>not support currently accepted theories or lead to unpopular
>>ones.

>>Sometime back in 2001, two of my friends, Michael, a skeptical
>>professional astronomer and Sue, a fellow member with MUFON
>>Ontario stayed behind to speak with Seth Shostak (then with the
>>SETI Institute) after his talk at York University to learn more
>>about his beliefs regarding UFOs and ETs. As we expected,
>>although Seth is a scientist, he was not well informed about
>>important UFO incidents and other scientific evidence that
>>strongly suggested ET contact had already been made and neither
>>did he seem much interested in learning more - a cardinal sin
>>for any true scientist, eminent or not.

><snip>

>Seth and I each gave 3 different lectures on the last westward
>crossing of the Queen Elizabeth 2 in December. He spoke about
>SETI. I spoke about UFOs. We were cordial with each other.

>I did point out many of the serious problems associated with
>SETI.

>Just before the trip I had read his new book "Cosmic Company".
>Lots of pretty pictures and such silly gems as asking why
>haven't UFOs landed and why haven't they been seen on radar?

>He obviously was totally unaware of the great bulk of serious
>UFO data including thousands of landings and loads of good radar
>visual cases.

Hello Stan,

Where has that joker, Seth Shostak, been? We have stealth
aircraft, and surely UFO operators could have developed stealth
measures long ago, because they are surely aware of our radar,
whatever their origin.

I guess in the case of Seth Shostak, ignorance of good UFO cases
is bliss.

>A couple of years back on Coast to Coast, I challenged him to a
>debate on the air. He told them he wasn't having any.

>After returning home from the QE 2, I sent a pleasant letter
>again offering to debate and providing him with a copy of Jim
>McDonald's 71 page congressional testimony. Not even the coutesy
>of a reply. The cult of SETI goes on its merry way.

Right on, Stan. It's kind of like a Pacific island cargo cult,
except that, to my perception, the chief 'witch doctor', Seth
Shostak, seems a lot less forthright than the chief shaman of
any cargo cult I can imagine.

Concerning the ancient 'gestalt' of the name Seth: In ancient
Egyptian mythology, Seth is the God of Chaos, and a symbol of
hostility and evil. He is the slayer and dismemberer of the
benign Osiris, father of Horus. (Horus was the son of Osiris and
Isis.) Thus, Horus is the avenger of his father's murder and the
model of a dutiful son, doing battle with his evil uncle, Seth.
In order to establish justice, Horus imprisones Seth and seals
him in with the Ankh (the power of life).

Please note that Horus, who gives Seth what he deserves, is the
god of the skies.

Huuummm... No wonder Seth (Shostak) tries to conceal (from
himself and others) the reality of this modern 'god of the sky',
the UFO. :)


Mythologically,

Ray Stanford







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                        Close Encounter At Great Orme

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2004 07:48:04 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2004 07:48:04 -0400
Subject: Close Encounter At Great Orme




Source: North Wales Weekly News - Llandudno Junction, Conwy - UK

http://icnorthwales.icnetwork.co.uk/news/regionalnews/tm_objectid=14129096%26met
hod=full%26siteid=50142%26page=2%26headline=close%2dencounter%2dat%2dgreat%2dorm
e-name_page.html

04-08-04


Close Encounter At Great Orme
By
Steve Bagnall Daily Post


ALIEN abductions are generally considered the stuff of legend,
Hollywood, and conspiracy theories.

However new research by brewing giant Grolsch has named the
Great Orme as one of Britain's top places for extra- terrestrial
kidnappings.

As part of an out-of-this-world advertising campaign, the Dutch
company points to a catalogue of reported sightings which make
the Llandudno beauty spot the UK's third most likely spot to
witness a close encounter of the space kind.

They included multiple UFO sightings in 1997 and a family which
claimed to have lost five hours after being followed by a
triangular shaped craft.

Conwy tourism bosses said they were delighted the beauty spot
figured so highly.

They welcome everybody, they said, even those from beyond planet
Earth.

"We have visitors from across the globe already and we would be
happy to welcome those from further afield also," said Coun
Eddie Woodward, cabinet member for economic development and
regeneration, which includes tourism.

"Llandudno has something for everybody."

There have been hundreds of UFO sightings across North Wales
stretching back decades.

One of the most famous cases was in the Berwyn mountains in 1974
when a huge explosion was heard. Some witnesses claimed a UFO
had crash landed.

The Grolsch study, part of a company-produced booklet called
"How To Be Abducted By Aliens" shows aliens and spaceships come
in all shapes and sizes.

Although tongue in cheek, UFO researcher Nick Pope says there is
a serious side to the mystery.

Nick, who works for the Ministry of Defence, said: "There are
literally hundreds of sightings across the UK every year, not
just North Wales.

"The vast majority are simply mistaken sightings of aircraft,
weather balloons, satellites, hoaxes and such like.

"But there is a small hardcore of really interesting cases, for
example, which come from police officers, pilots and military
personnel.

"With abduction cases, there are psychological explanations such
as vivid dreams or sleep paralysis, but again there is a small
hardcore of cases which are extremely interesting.

"The honest answer to what I think is going on is that I just
don't know."

Researchers compiled the list after checking UFO sightings over
many years.

Top of the alien list was Bonnybridge in Lanarkshire, Scotland,
followed by Cley Hill in Wiltshire.








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                         Is NASA Awash With 'UFOs'?

From: Larry W. Bryant <overtci.nul>
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 01:08:55 -0400 (EDT)
Fwd Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2004 08:33:45 -0400
Subject: Is NASA Awash With 'UFOs'?


Is NASA Awash with "UFOs"?

By Larry W. Bryant

Time was when the term "UFO" (meaning unidentified flying
object) was incompatible with the public image sought by
America's National Aeronautics and Space Administration. No NASA
leader wanted to dirty his hands by admitting to the public -
 especially information-hungry Ufologists - that anyone in his
organization had a keen interest in pursuing UFO research.

But consider my recent serendipitous insight into that
bureaucratic mentality; it derives from my perusal of the
contents of a snail-mail envelope sent to me by the NASA FOIA
office. The contents - some 36 pages of abstracted catalog
entries produced via "a search of the NASA Aeronautics and Space
Database for 'UFO or UFOs or Unidentified flying object or
unidentified flying objects or mufon or Walter H. Andrus'" --
 consists of two lists: "one of Limited [meaning limited-
distribution] documents, the other of Unlimited documents." The
unlimited ones "can be purchased from one of the following
sources:..."

My perusal of the lists determined that today's NASA
terminologists have come to rely on (or be saddled with) at
least six categories for the term "UFO." Let's review them here:

(1) The classic UFO (or "flying saucer") - as epitomized in
several foreign journal articles/reports/papers on UFO research
(including a few from Russian sources; e.g., one titled "Flying
Saucers over Taiga", dated July 30, 1985); one from Tokyo's
National Space Development Agency; and one from a university in
Australia, titled "SETI and Education", as presented at the 48th
International Astronautical Conference in Turin, Italy, during
Oct. 6-10, 1997. To me, the most intriguing item in this
category happens to be an article published in something called
the Journal of New Energy (Vol. 5, No. 4; pages 53--59; 2001).
Under the title "Understanding UFO/ET/Free Energy Secrecy", its
author - S. M. Greer (known to Ufologists as Steven M. Greer,
M.D.) - observes: "To date, it has not been difficult to make a
compelling case for the reality of UFOs per se. What has been a
challenge is that of elucidating the architecture of secrecy
related to UFOs. This paper details some key points regarding
this secrecy, why it has been imposed and why it is so difficult
for the controlling interests within covert programs to reverse
policy and allow disclosure."

(2) The "Ultra-high-frequency Follow-On (UFO)" communications
satellite system - as operated by the U. S. Navy since 1993.

(3) The "Universal Fiber Optic Test/Instrumentation System (UFO-
TIS)" - referring to a contract funded in 1997 by the NASA
Dryden Flight Research Facility.

(4) The "Universal Field Orientation (UFO)" controller - being a
method for vector control for induction machines (as discussed
in a May 2001 paper published in the journal of the Institute of
Electronics and Electrical Engineering.

(5) The "Untethered Flying Observer (UFO)" - as emerging from a
1995 NASA panel workshop, "the scope of which covered sensors
and transducers that could be used in future space applications
and missions."

(6) The "UnFold Operator (UFO)" - having to do with spectral
unfolding, which a related 1996 conference paper from the Sandia
National Laboratories defines as "an inverse mathematical
operation which attempts to obtain spectral source information
from a set of tabulated response functions and data
measurements."

What the (well-meaning?) space technicians have done in the
latter five categories amounts to felonious mutilation of a
perfectly good household word: "UFO" (as memorialized by
category No. 1). What's their rationale for such acronymal
anarchy? Have they become so enamored of the original term that
they've felt compelled to rescue it from "heretical science" at
the expense of linguistic clarity and common sense? Too bad that
the original term couldn't have been trademarked.

Oh, well, I do recall some much earlier blasphemy done unto my
chosen field of research - e.g., a can of spaghetti-based soup
called... yes, "UFOs" (for "Unusual Floating Objects"?). And
once, back in the early sixties, there was a race horse in
Maryland named "UFO" (for "Unlimited Fleet-footed Organism"?).

But the one I most often recall goes like this - from a
bumpersnicker on the rear end of a luxury car: "Unpaid Financial
Obligation."








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                Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers -

From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais.nul>
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 10:31:12 +0200
Fwd Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2004 08:35:33 -0400
Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers -


>From: Steven Kaeser <steve.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 08:55:23 -0400
>Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers

>>From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 08:40:11 -0500
>>Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers

><snip>

>>>There are a few people still following this story, but very few.
>>>I believe that Philip Mantle could probably provide the best
>>>description of where we are today as far as the AA "film" is
>>>concerned, but others might disagree. One individual came
>>>forward to acknowledge his involvement in the creation of the
>>>"Tent Sequence", which was never actually broadcast in the U.S.

<snip>

>>I remain fascinated, as I have from the beginning. It's very
>>interesting how the whole Alien Autopsy has played out. Yes,
>>it's about time for a review of the case.

>The only excuse for another review that I can see is the release
>of some new information. I became fascinated with this "film" in
>1994 when it was first mentioned, and I was very entertained by
>the reactions I monitored on the Internet. But over the course
>of several years, this tangent of ufology played itself out,
>IMO, and we beat on this dead horse for quite a while.


To Philip Mantle and the List,

I have one question about the second version that you saw, with
a few other people, without wound on the leg.

Was there a general view showing the body opened and the intact
leg ? Some think that the two versions were shot with only one
body. It would seem almost impossible if there was such a
general view without wound.

Another question is: Why was this second version never shown
publicly? Or was it? I think that at least a still picture from
the second version was published, maybe in San Marino. I would
like to know more about that.


Gildas Bourdais








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             Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers - Shell

From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
Date: Thu,  8 Apr 2004 07:39:40 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2004 10:43:12 -0400
Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers - Shell


>From: Steven Kaeser <steve.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 08:55:23 -0400
>Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers

>But over the course of several years, this tangent of ufology
>played itself out, IMO, and we beat on this dead horse for
>quite a while.

Yeah, but you know ufology. There's no horse too dead that it
can't be beaten a little more. ;)








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                 What Goes With Grolsch Beer Ads About UFOS?

From: Chris Rutkowski <rutkows.nul>
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 14:12:57 -0500 (CDT)
Fwd Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2004 18:08:28 -0400
Subject: What Goes With Grolsch Beer Ads About UFOS?


What Goes With Grolsch Beer Ads About UFOS? A Ufo Polka, Of Course!

Ohhhhh, yes!

The group Brave Combo produced a polka album with songs not only
about Flying Saucers ("I want to see a flying saucer...") but
also with tunes about a Mystery Vortex and, of course, Heaven.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B0000003KZ/ref=m_art_li_6/002-0675
705-6561625?v=glance&s=music








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              It's Official - Bonnybridge Is UFO Capital Of UK

From: Terry Groff <terry.nul>
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 07:49:42 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2004 18:10:24 -0400
Subject: It's Official - Bonnybridge Is UFO Capital Of UK


Source - The Scotsman - Edinburgh

http://news.scotsman.com/scitech.cfm?id=397402004

Thu 8 Apr 2004

It's official - Bonnybridge is UFO capital of UK

Ian Johnston


A few weeks ago, in the town of Bonnybridge, an unidentified
flying object was seen to "land" on the golf course.

The town has also been visited by Celtic priests, who claim
extra-terrestrials are watching over the hiding place for both
the real Stone of Destiny and the Ark of the Covenant, while
locals have reported being abducted by aliens.

For many years, it has been clear something strange has been
going on in this small community a few miles from Falkirk. But
now, one of the country's leading authorities on UFOs has named
it as the UK's number-one hotspot for the phenomena.

The new survey was carried out by Nick Pope, a recognised
authority on the subject of UFOs, who works as a Ministry of
Defence official and who ran the UFO desk at the MoD between 1991
and 1994.

Mr. Pope said: "About 95 per cent of the reports are just
misidentifications. But there's around 5 per cent which are
sightings by police officers, military personnel and civil
pilots, things tracked on radar, good photographs and video
footage. These are cases you cannot knock down."








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                             Beam Me Up Scottie

From: Terry Groff <terry.nul>
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 07:59:36 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2004 18:18:58 -0400
Subject: Beam Me Up Scottie


Source - The Evening Standard - This Is London

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/lifeandstyle/articles/10160997?source=Metro

8 April 2004

Beam me up Scottie

By Sabi Phagura, Metro

It could be the whisky or possibly the haggis - but, whatever
the reason, aliens seem a bit partial to Scotland.

Anyone wishing to be abducted by the little green men would be
well advised to take the High Road - to Bonnybridge, to be
precise.

The Stirlingshire town has the highest number of reported UFO
sightings in Britain, with more than 100 every month, research
shows.


Residents there have also claimed the greatest variety of
spaceships, describing everything from flying saucers to
hovering cigars. Witnesses include not only the usual UFO
watchersand cranks, but everyone from firemen to a police
helicopter pilot.

In fact, locals want their town to be twinned with Roswell, in
New Mexico, where it was claimed a spaceship came down in 1947
and was taken to a secret military base.

The findings are revealed in a study by Grolsch, which has
compiled a list of Top 40 UFO hotspots in a booklet How To Be
Abducted By Aliens.

'You can be abducted by aliens anywhere and at any time,' said
UFO expert Christopher Martin, who claims to have been kidnapped
by a ship. 'But the classic abduction happens at night when
you're lying in bed and you're awakened by a bright light.

'You are lifted or floated out of your room, often through the
walls, and brought on to a spaceship.'

Up to 40,000 Britons and 4million Americans claim to have ben
kidnapped by aliens. But Nick Pope, who ran the UFO desk at the
MoD for three years, said the number of sightings could be far
higher.

'We must take into account widespread under-reporting due to the
fear of ridicule,' he added








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                      Re: Zeta Reticuli I & II? - Shell

From: Tim Shell<tshell.nul>
Date: Thu,  8 Apr 2004 07:59:50 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2004 18:21:45 -0400
Subject: Re: Zeta Reticuli I & II? - Shell


>From: Rod Brock <humble98225.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 17:20:45 -0700 (PDT)
>Subject: Re: Zeta Reticuli I & II?

>Do some people believe that there is an
>advanced alien race living on a planet which orbits one or both
>the component stars of Zeta Reticuli? Yes, most definitely.

This is mostly because of the Marjorie Fish interpretation of
the Betty Hill star map, right?  Has anyone done a more recent
interpretation of the map, using a more sophisticated computer
program or at least something a little more accurate than Fish's
analog near-star model?  I was looking at the Koch-Kyborg
interpretation, that says the Betty Hill map actually represents
our own solar system, but I'm not completely sold on it.

Maybe the Hill map is just to crude to be useful.

Besides, my money's on 82 Eridani for the closest star with a
really Earthlike planet in orbit.








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              Re: Why I Support Alien Abduction Study - Reason

From: Cathy Reason <CathyM.nul>
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 14:11:46 +0100
Fwd Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2004 18:23:38 -0400
Subject: Re: Why I Support Alien Abduction Study - Reason


>From: John Harney <magonia.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 23:57:46 +0100
>Subject: Re: Why I Support Alien Abduction Study

>I can't understand this problem with the term "rational".

Note that I did say "rational in this context".

>For
>example, if someone asked me how I got out of my flat
>(apartment) on the 3rd (4th) floor and I said that I walked down
>the stairs or that I took the lift (elevator) then these would
>be rational answers. But if I said that I climbed out of the
>window and jumped down into the street because that was the
>quickest way down, then most people would say that this was
>irrational. We have the same problem with abduction experts, but
>it seems that is politically incorrect to challenge their
>nonsensical statements.

Of course it's probable that there are aspects of abduction
research that I'm not aware of, but nothwithstanding that I think
your analogy is faulty.

To start with, your anecdote could be described as irrational in
a number of different ways. Assuming you were aware of the laws
of physics and weren't suicidal, then your behavior could be
regarded as inconsistent and therefore irrational. Or you might
have a phobia about elevators and have a jet chute installed
next to your window for those occasions in which you might
happen to be in a hurry, in which case your behavior would
certainly seem somewhat unusual but would hardly be irrational.
I don't think either of those has anything to do with abduction.

On the other hand, your anecdote could be seen as irrational
because it invites us to believe you have some means of
suspending the laws of physics, and this is presumably the sense
of "irrational" you were thinking of. But that analogy doesn't
work either, because in the case of your anecdote we can apply
Occam's Razor, which tells us that we should not multiply
entities beyond those which are strictly necessary. But in the
abduction case we can't - because all the possible explanations,
including the psychosocial ones, require us to add additional
hypotheses for which we have no evidence. The sleep paralysis
scenario, for example, requires at least two extra layers of
assumption - one about the confabulation of apparently veridical
memories, and another about the capacity of cultural mythology
to constrain the content of those memories. Evidence for both
those propositions is sketchy, to say the least.

Of course, you could argue (as many do) that psychosocial
explanations are always a priori more parsimonious than non-
psychosocial ones, but I think the grounds for arguing this are
poor. To start with, why ever should we be more favorably
disposed toward unsupported hypotheses in the "soft" sciences"
(see below) than in other (or "real") sciences? Unless we are
prepared to accept sloppier standards in the soft sciences than
elsewhere, there seems to be no reason to do so. And if we were
to do so, our psychosocial hypothesis would by definition be
inherently unfalsifiable, and therefore unscientific.

But apart from that, how would we determine the a priori
probability of other hypotheses, such as the ETH? Ufological
discussions tend to assume the a priori probability of finding
extraterrestrials in our solar system is extremely low - but by
reasoning from, say, the Fermi paradox, for one could argue that
the a priori probability is actually quite high. Using simple
diffusion models of galactic colonization, it turns out that
almost half of all possible values of the Drake equation
indicate an alien presence in our solar system at this moment.
(Details of the calculation available on request.)

>This is a very good point. The social sciences are "soft" rather
>than "hard" science.

Which means what, exactly? Surely a discipline is either a
science or it isn't? What is the point of calling something a
"soft" science unless you're proposing to allow sloppier
standards of evidence? Does this mean that if we called Ufology
a "soft" science then everything would be all right? You're
ducking the issue, John. What exactly is the difference, as you
see it, between Ufology and psychology or sociology?

>I get the impression that there is much
>more scepticism in Britain about psychology and psychiatry than
>there is in the USA, which means that such techniques as
>polygraph tests and hypnotic regression are less likely to be
>taken seriouslly. Also, in Britain people are unlikely to
>consult psychiatrists for trivial reasons. So we have problems
>not only of "soft" science but also cultural differences.

Well, yes and no. It helps to understand the way academic
politics operates. In the academic hierarchy, the social
sciences come somewhere near the bottom. One of the ways in
which social scientists can enhance their status is by adopting
a magisterial attitude toward disciplines which are even lower
in the hierarchy than they are. Cognitive psychologists like to
think of themselves as "harder" scientists than social
psychologists, for example (despite the fact that both have
exactly the same philosophical underpinning). Academic
psychologists like to be seen as authoritative judges over
clincial psychologists. And psychologists of all kinds tend to
take a magisterial attitude toward parapsychology. One of the
few ways in which psychologists can represent themselves as
scientific authorities without being sniggered at is to adopt a
skeptical attitude toward the paranormal. Bear in mind that
there are often hidden agendas at work here.

For the record, I'm British and have a background in academic
psychology.


>I suspect that work on human perception and neurophysiology is
>quite likely to provide some useful clues to the nature of
>"abductee" experiences and other strange perceptions.

<snip>

They may well do so, but of course they also help us to assess
the scientific credibility of psychosocial concepts such as
"radical misperception".

>I agree with what you seem to be saying, that Chris French and
>his team seem to be underestimating the difficulties involved in
>producing a coherent description of the abduction syndrome.
>However, it is possible that they may provide some data which
>will inspire further research.

I disagree. I think Chris French is well aware of the
difficulties involved, it's just that the tools he has to work
with aren't up to the task.

Cathy






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                             Burt Rutan's Rocket

From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy.nul>
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 06:21:48 -0700
Fwd Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2004 18:24:43 -0400
Subject: Burt Rutan's Rocket


Hello, all.

I bet you  Rutan gets the X-prize. FAA willing of course.

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20040407/D81Q8VQ00.html

GT McCoy

Health and age not withstanding, I'd love to fly that thing.








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             Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers - Kaeser

From: Steven Kaeser <steve.nul>
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 09:59:00 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2004 18:37:17 -0400
Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers - Kaeser


>From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 10:31:12 +0200
>Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers

<snip>

>To Philip Mantle and the List,

>I have one question about the second version that you saw, with
>a few other people, without wound on the leg.

>Was there a general view showing the body opened and the intact
>leg ? Some think that the two versions were shot with only one
>body. It would seem almost impossible if there was such a
>general view without wound.

>Another question is: Why was this second version never shown
>publicly? Or was it? I think that at least a still picture from
>the second version was published, maybe in San Marino. I would
>like to know more about that.


Gildas,

Philip is a much better spokesman on this subject, but let me
point you to a web page that has some stills from the alleged
"First Autopsy" footage.

http://www.beyondroswell.com/roswell/stills.html

The stills presented here were sent to Bob Shell, I believe, and
he has released them further. They were initially provided as
material to use while presenting evidence at conferences, which
Bob did for a couple of years until he backed away from this
investigation as his interests evolved.

Briefly, I believe the second version was never shown because of
graphic nature of the genital area and it was not felt that this
was the best presentation for family television. Keep in mind
that Ray Santilli was trying to market this and make as much
from his investment as he could (and I know it's more
complicated that than, but let's not get into it all here . . .
<g>). He claims that he wasn't given permission to pursue
further release of the material from the actual investor, Volker
Spielberg, and both have laid low for a number of years now. To
my knowledge, no video material has been released since the
first group of tapes were sent out to researchers and sold
directly to those interested. There were many copies of the
"Second Autopsy" and "Tent Sequence" floating around, but none
of the "First Autopsy".

I would like to see the "First Autopsy" out of curiousity, but I
don't believe it would enhance the credibility of the AA "film"
by much, and it would lead to further questions without answers.


Steve






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                Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers -

From: Dave Vetterick <veterick.nul>
Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2004 09:40:50 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2004 18:38:33 -0400
Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers -


I find it interesting the amount of discussion the mere mention
of the AA film still generates. The very best of our UFO
community have researched and debated it to death with no
consensus or absolute proof of its authenticity one way or the
other.

The bottom line is there really is nothing further to be
discussed until new information is uncovered or made available
that can be verified.

Philip Mantle from the start several years ago, has probably
been as close to this whole thing as anyone. From his post a few
days ago, you can sense his frustration in chasing dead end
leads and the run around he's gotten from Santilli.

We got a dose of the same smoke blowing from Santilli in one of
the last efforts on the AA Film mentioned above by Neil Morris.

I think I can say on behalf of the majority of everyone even
remotely involved, the AA Film is a dead issue until then.

As Santilli said, "it is what it is", make up your own mind.


Dave Vetterick







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              Re: Why I Support Alien Abduction Study - Reason

From: Cathy Reason <CathyM.nul>
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 15:53:45 +0100
Fwd Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2004 19:00:50 -0400
Subject: Re: Why I Support Alien Abduction Study - Reason


>From: John Harney <magonia.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 21:24:53 +0100
>Subject: Re: Why I Support Alien Abduction Study

>An example of an explanation which is not sensible is one which I
>think was devised by a certain B*dd H*pk*ns, who asserts that the
>reason why abductions are not observed and recorded by
>independent witnesses is that such potential witnesses are
>"switched off" for the duration of the abduction.

>If you think that's sensible, then just perform this thought
>experiment. Someone is abducted from a car. But there are others
>nearby so they have to be "switched off". There are other people
>approaching, so they have to get the same treatment. The
>abduction lasts for the standard two hours. Meanwhile, the number
>of of potential witnesses to something odd going on is increasing
>exponentially. You don't have to be very good at arithmetic to
>realise that the whole idea is utterly ridiculous.

I agree that it's ridiculous, John, but not for the reason
you're suggesting.

I'm not a particular fan of the ETH (mainly because I don't see
how one distinguishes between extraterrestrial intelligence and
any other intelligence which might happen to exist beyond the
bounds of our knowledge - would a community comprised entirely
of spirits of the dead count as extraterrestrial?) but if we're
going to invoke the ETH (with emphasis on the H) then surely the
"rules of logic" require that we do so in the context of
Bayesian analysis and Occam's Razor. Occam's Razor can be
thought of as a heuristic for partitioning the set of all
possible hypotheses. If one adopts the Principle of
Indifference, and assumes that only a small set of possible
hypotheses are actually true, then the probability that any
given hypothesis chosen at random is actually true will approach
1/N, where N is the number of possible hypotheses, and as the
ratio N/M becomes increasingly large, M being the number of true
hypotheses. (This is actually oversimplified because many of
the possible hypotheses will be contradictory and others will
entail other hypotheses, so that all hypotheses are not truly
independent - but that doesn't affect the overall argument). It
follows that, in order to minimize the possibility of a priori
choosing a false hypothesis, one should attempt to minimize the
extent to which one partitions the set - in other words, one
should make one's hypothesis as generic as possible. This is
exactly what Occam's Razor tells us to do - we should not
multiply entities unnecessarily. In the context of the ETH,
this means making no assumptions about the nature and properties
of the aliens involved, regardless of whether these are
expressed as capabilities or limitations.

In other words, we have absolutely no grounds for making any a
priori assumptions about ETI at all, not about its motives, nor
what it looks like, nor what it is (or is not) capable of, nor
indeed anything else whatsoever.  If we have any a priori reason
to believe that some phenomenon is a manifestation of ETI, then
the properties of that ETI will be determined by observation,
and not by any other means. In that sense, a priori arguments
about what ETI is or is not capable of, or what it will do or
why it will do it, are themselves ridiculous.

The only situation which would justify making such assumptions
is when those assumptions will lead directly to testable
predictions, and those predictions will allow falsification of
the particular version of the ETH which leads to them. They will
not affect other versions of the ETH (or any other hypothesis)
which do not entail the same assumptions.


Cathy







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                Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers -

From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul>
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 10:13:17 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2004 20:24:51 -0400
Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers -


>From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Thu,  8 Apr 2004 07:39:40 -0500
>Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers

>>From: Steven Kaeser <steve.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 08:55:23 -0400
>>Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers

>>But over the course of several years, this tangent of ufology
>>played itself out, IMO, and we beat on this dead horse for
>>quite a while.

>Yeah, but you know ufology. There's no horse too dead that it
>can't be beaten a little more. ;)

...And too, in ufology (by its nature), an *equine puree* makes
itself called for.

alienview.nul
www.AlienView.net

Photo Album: http://www.alienview.net/AVAlbum.htm
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               Re: Why I Support Alien Abduction Study - Hall

From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2004 15:16:04 +0000
Fwd Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2004 20:27:56 -0400
Subject: Re: Why I Support Alien Abduction Study - Hall


>From: Kelly Freeman <Khfflsciufo.nul>
>Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 21:52:26 EDT
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Subject: Re: Why I Support Alien Abduction Study

>>From: John Harney <magonia.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 21:24:53 +0100
>>Subject: Re: Why I Support Alien Abduction Survey

>>>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark.nul>
>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 07:50:57 -0500
>>>Subject: Re: Why I Support Alien Abduction Study

>>>Ah, that wonderfully smug pelicanist phrase: "sensible
>>>explanations." We all know what_they_are, don't we? The ones
>>>that John Harney and his fellow flappers agree with. It's
>>>usually joke when someone says, "You can always tell a
>>>brilliant guy; he agrees with you." Apparently, John actually
>>>_believes_it.

>>A sensible explanation, Jerry, is one which at least obeys the
>>rules of elementary logic. It has nothing to do with certain
>>large birds (which Errol has recently indicated that he is fed up
>>with reading about). I can assure you it isn't necessary for me
>>to consider it a likely explanation. However, I appreciate that
>>you obviously prefer what is called "saucer logic", i.e. the more
>>absurd the explanation the better.

>Mr. Harney,

>Just what exactly are your rules of elementary logic? Are they
>the rules that had begun to shatter more than 50 years ago? Or
>are they the ones that ignore the facts, and rely on wishful
>thinking? "Saucer logic"? Logical thinking requires an
>examination of _all_the_facts_, _all_the_data_, not just the
>convenient tidbits that fit nicely into a preconceived mosaic of
>a preferred "explanation". Hint: UFOs _are_ real.

>>An example of an explanation which is not sensible is one which I
>>think was devised by a certain B*dd H*pk*ns, who asserts that the
>>reason why abductions are not observed and recorded by
>>independent witnesses is that such potential witnesses are
>>"switched off" for the duration of the abduction.

>Devised?..... Please, I am gritting my teeth now.

>>If you think that's sensible, then just perform this thought
>>experiment. Someone is abducted from a car. But there are others
>>nearby so they have to be "switched off". There are other people
>>approaching, so they have to get the same treatment. The
>>abduction lasts for the standard two hours. Meanwhile, the number
>>of potential witnesses to something odd going on is increasing
>>exponentially. You don't have to be very good at aritmetic to
>>realise that the whole idea is utterly ridiculous.

>Please Mr. Harney, _give_me_a_break_.


Kelly & List,

Aside from the fact that John Harney's comments about Budd
Hopkins show clearly that he doesn't know the man, I have reason
to doubt that he (or some of his colleagues) have any
understanding of logic or scientific method either.

I was a formal student of logic (and did very well in it, thank
you). Logic has nothing to do (except indirectly) with
scientific validity. Logic has only to do with internal
consistency and coherence of reasoning. One can reason entirely
logcially and reach totally false conclusions if he/she has
accepted false premises in the process. This can be an example
of self deception.

Another form of self deception can occur when someone reasons
illogically. For example, assuming that both "x" and "non-x" are
true at the same time. For a simple example, it is illogical to
reason that something (e.g., the computer in front of you) both
exists and doesn't exist.

The strange phenomena reported in abduction cases (and I think
Jerry Clark summed this up, in other terms, very well) are
neither illogical nor irrational in and of themselves. Some may
be paradoxical or seemingly inconsistent with our current
science, but at this point no one can say with certainty what
the answer is. In fact, I would say that it is irrational to
suggest that abduction reports are all nonsense simply because
some facets of the rpeorts don't make sense to us. John Harney
ought to examine his own hidden premises that are leading him
quite logically to a very dubious conclusion. I think he is
being irrational.


 - Dick











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   Apr > Apr 8

                 Chupacabras On The Prowl Again In Argentia?

From: Scott Corrales <lornis1.nul>
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 11:42:34 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2004 20:32:30 -0400
Subject: Chupacabras On The Prowl Again In Argentia?


Source: El Diario (Parana-Province of Entre R=EDos)
Date: O4-07-2004

Is The Chupacabras On The Prowl Again?

The legend of the infamous Chupacabras has reappeared once
more in Entre R=EDos, and this time close to our city, San
Benito.

Police sources said yesterday that last Saturday, the sheriff's
office of the neighboring community was visited by a farmer from
the rural area who identified himself as Emilio Fernando Kint,
59, who stated that on that day he had noticed one of his
animals was missing. Immediately, he went in search of the stray
bovine and found it lying in a thicket.

Upon approaching it to see what was wrong, he found that his
animal was missing a left eye, hide and flesh in a 5 centimeter
circumference  around its belly. What startled the farmer the
most was the absence of blood on the animal and anywhere in the
vicinity. Kint stated that he called a private veterinarian who
visited the site and attested to the missing organs, but who was
otherwise unable to offer an explanation for the animal's death.

During his exposition, the farmer also mentioned that a few
nights ago he had seen strange lights in the firmament,
precisely over the place where he found the animal. He added
that not far from there he found a large circle of flattened
grass whose cause was unknown.

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

Translation (C) 2004 Scott Corrales IHU
Special thanks to Gloria Coluchi







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             Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers - Baiata

From: Maurizio Baiata <maurizio.baiata.nul>
Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2004 18:11:07 +0200
Fwd Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2004 20:39:37 -0400
Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers - Baiata


>From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 10:31:12 +0200
>Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers

>>From: Steven Kaeser <steve.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 08:55:23 -0400
>>Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers

>>>From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 08:40:11 -0500
>>>Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers

>><snip>

>>>>There are a few people still following this story, but very few.
>>>>I believe that Philip Mantle could probably provide the best
>>>>description of where we are today as far as the AA "film" is
>>>>concerned, but others might disagree. One individual came
>>>>forward to acknowledge his involvement in the creation of the
>>>>"Tent Sequence", which was never actually broadcast in the U.S.

><snip>

>>>I remain fascinated, as I have from the beginning. It's very
>>>interesting how the whole Alien Autopsy has played out. Yes,
>>>it's about time for a review of the case.

>>The only excuse for another review that I can see is the release
>>of some new information. I became fascinated with this "film" in
>>1994 when it was first mentioned, and I was very entertained by
>>the reactions I monitored on the Internet. But over the course
>>of several years, this tangent of ufology played itself out,
>>IMO, and we beat on this dead horse for quite a while.

>To Philip Mantle and the List,

>I have one question about the second version that you saw, with
>a few other people, without wound on the leg.

>Was there a general view showing the body opened and the intact
>leg ? Some think that the two versions were shot with only one
>body. It would seem almost impossible if there was such a
>general view without wound.

>Another question is: Why was this second version never shown
>publicly? Or was it? I think that at least a still picture from
>the second version was published, maybe in San Marino. I would
>like to know more about that.


Hello there,

To answer Gildas, briefly, as to my direct involvement in
viewing the "second autopsy":

- Yes: this never seen publicly autopsy - was shown to Reg
Presley and me by Ray Santilli in his office. The date was April
25, 1995, around 2:00 p.m. No one else was present, but
Santilli, Presley and me. We asked Santilli to see it twice.
Reluctantly, he fulfilled our request.

- Yes: there was a general view of the intact body. I thought,
and still think, that the two bodies looked slightly different,
besides the wounds. The type of incision, as you know, was
different (vertical, not a "Y").

- The video of the second autopsy, as far as I know, was never
shown publicly, but to a very limited amount of people.

- To be exact: 5 still pictures, taken from the second autopsy
film, where published in an issue of Notiziario UFO, the
monthly Italian UFO magazine, at the time directed by me. I'd
received these stills in a video format (VHS) sent to me by Ray
Santilli. I do have the VHS in my possession.

BTW, I'm still at work on this frustrating subject. And, don't
have a solution, yet.


Thanks for the attention,

Maurizio Baiata
Associazione EXPLAIN
Italy








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                  UFOs Seen Across Canada On March 28, 2004

From: Chris Rutkowski <rutkows.nul>
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 14:03:42 -0500 (CDT)
Fwd Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2004 21:17:50 -0400
Subject: UFOs Seen Across Canada On March 28, 2004


A Curious Chronological Cluster of Consecutive Canadian Cases

On April 7, 2004, I received an e-mail from one of my Canadian
colleagues informing me he had been contacted by a UFO witness
who works in an air traffic control tower at a major Canadian
airport. He was told that three tower operators had visually
observed a puzzling UFO while monitoring local flight activity,
and provided some preliminary details. While the witnesses
wished to remain anonymous, I made some inquiries and eventually
was able to speak with all three witnesses.

The case is as follows:

On March 29, 2004 at about 0345 GMT (during the evening of March
28 local time), three Transport Canada employees in the main
tower at a major Canadian airport were performing their usual
duties when one of them noticed a bright light low in the
southwest.

He brought it to the attention of his co-workers, who also
observed the object. Each described it as a red light, similar
to an aircraft light, but with no green or white navigational
lights in evidence. It was also likened to a collision avoidance
light on a radio tower, with respect to is brightness.

The object was first seen bearing 240 magnetic from the tower,
an estimated two degrees above the visible horizon. When pressed
on the angular height, the witnesses reiterated that the
altitude was only about two or three degrees above the level
horizon. It was on an estimated heading of 130, moving right to
left (west to east), with a constant brightness, and flying
level to the horizon. It was in view for approximately 30
seconds, although one witness thought that the observation
duration was only about 20 seconds.

It was last seen on a bearing of 210 from the tower,
disappearing slowly upward into the thick cloud ceiling at 2,700
feet. Based on their experience in judging distance and
altitude, and comparing the object with another aircraft, they
estimated the object was between five and eight miles in
distance.

During the visual observation, the witnesses checked tower radar
and found there was no radar paint nor aircraft transponder
contact. The observers agreed that the object looked about twice
as "big" as obstruction lights on a nearby Air Canada hanger as
seen from the tower.

The object left no trail and witnesses agreed it was "not a
meteor," each having seen many meteors and fireballs on their
shifts.

One witness used a pair of binoculars and said no structure was
visible behind the object. He watched the object disappear "like
a plane going up through the clouds." The witnesses also asked
the crew of a 737 in the area to check their radar and attempted
to vector them visually to the object, but the 737 was above the
cloud deck. There was no other aircraft in the area at the time.

The object had the same apparent track as a later 737 which was
below the clouds and came within the control area about 30
minutes later.

One witness said the object slightly resembled a "road flare" or
"fireworks," but said the light would have to have been at least
five times brighter than a typical flare to have been seen at
the estimated distance of two miles.

Another witness disagreed, suggesting the object was "the wrong
colour" of a flare and also did not behave as a flare would at
the time. He said he is experienced in working with and
observing flares and that this was definitely not a flare. It
had perfectly level flight and was a strong and steady light
source. The witnesses are certain that others must have seen the
object, although there have been no other reports received.

The witnesses inquired of a nearby Canadian Forces Base Wing and
were told there was no military traffic in the area at the time.

In checking the UFOROM database, however, I found that there had
been several other UFO sightings that night and within a day or
so, although none were close to the location of the tower
personnel sighting. Converting them all to Greenwich time to
compensate for the large number of time zones in Canada, a
review of the reports chronologically reveals some interesting
things.

At 0130Z (GMT) on March 28 (during the evening of March 27), two
witnesses near Rigaud, Quebec, saw "une grosse boule lumineuse
qui cachait quelque chose en arrire. On aurrait dit que le
cercle tait une sorte de gaz." They watched the object with
"something" behind it for about four hours, including some time
with binoculars, and there is no question that they were
observing a bright planet.

At 0345Z on March 28, however, another witness in Montreal was
observing the planetary procession and was startled to see two
red balls of light flying together and crossing the sky from
northwest to the southwest.

In the wee hours of the morning of March 28, at 0926Z, witnesses
in Prince George, BC, saw "two fiery orange balls hovering in
the sky above us, seemingly floating along. We watched the balls
move for approximately a block and a half before one separated
down towards the horizon. It was then we quickly got into the
car to chase the other one, only to lose it."

Later on during the day, a skywatcher took some photos of
"chemtrails" over Newbury, Ontario, at about 2:00 pm (1900Z).
The photos show only what appears to be regular jet contrails,
which the photographer considered unusual.

Five hours later, at 0010Z on March 29, 2004 (the evening of
March 28), three witnesses were golfing in Calgary when they saw
two daylight discs.

One witness said: "I was looking into the sky at the
Confederation driving range watching a ball when I saw the first
object moving across the sky at a high rate of speed. I was able
to point it out to two friends I had there and they tracked it
with me. As we watched it move across the sky, we noticed a
second one in front of it. They were moving at such an
incredible rate of speed that they simply vanished into the
distance. The two objects were circular in shape and had a
silver metallic color to them."

Only ten minutes later, at 0020Z, another Montreal witness saw a
light flashing red, blue, green and yellow colours, moving
slowly during the five minutes of its observation. "It was to
the right of the moon and [faded out] to the left of the moon."
It made no noise and had a very smooth trajectory. This object
was very likely an aircraft.

Three hours later, the air traffic controllers had their
sighting. A hour later on, at 0445Z, a witness in Victoria, BC,
reported "a strange object between Venus and the Moon." He felt
it had an "odd pattern of flight" and seemed to be a bright
white light that faded after ten seconds of observation.

Finally, at 1030Z (about 4:30 am local time March 29), a witness
in Regina, Saskatchewan, reported "a light about the size of
Venus moving from north to south. I initially thought it was a
satellite on a polar orbit as I believe the altitude was that
high. It then maneuvered into a long "S" shaped arc with the
initial turn to the west and continued this arc until it had
turned 180 degrees to the east and then once again turned to the
west and then once again turned this time leaving my field of
vision to the southeast. It seems to me it descended with this
maneuver as it seemed at a lower altitude at the end of the "S"
 maneuver. No sound was heard by me at anytime. It was not an
airplane. I have been an aviation enthusiast all my life and
 know what to look for and none of it wasn't there."

So, in the timespan of about 48 hours there were nine separate
UFO sightings reported, from almost sea to sea. None were
identical in description, and it does not appear as if any of
the witnesses saw the same objects. Some have possible
explanations, while at least one may qualify as a high-quality
unknown.

A further note: the air traffic controllers insisted on
anonymity, so the geographical location of their sighting is not
listed. What is also interesting is that I asked them if they
were going to file an official report with Transport Canada, and
replied that they would not be doing so. This begs the question
of how many other sightings by ATC operators go unreported.
Although some sighting reports find their way to UFOROM from
Transport Canada, the reporting mechanism is still susceptible
to witnesses' reluctance to make an official statement.


Chris Rutkowski
Research Coordinator
Ufology Research of Manitoba (UFOROM)
8 April 2004








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   Apr > Apr 9

                     John Ford Fund Gets Cash Infusion!

From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul>
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 14:57:46 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2004 09:20:30 -0400
Subject: John Ford Fund Gets Cash Infusion!


A completed pledge has arrived in the mails today! The collected
Fund now stands at 300 USD! A "Special Thanks" to all who have
contributed!

alienview.nul

EXPLORE "AlienViewGroup" at its HostPros URL.
http://www.alienview.net


JOHN FORD RESTORATION FUND -- John will be released eventually.
He'll need a tax free cash stake to get on his feet. Let's put
one together for him; the bigger it is -- the more attention he
gets. It could have been you. E-mail for detail. $450.00 pledged
-- $300.00 collected!

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite.
What others see from afar, I leave far behind me."
- Giordano Bruno, scourged by the scabrously specious scurrilous.








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              Re: Why I Support Alien Abduction Study - Rimmer

From: John Rimmer <jrimmer.nul>
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 22:59:24 +0100
Fwd Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2004 10:11:16 -0400
Subject: Re: Why I Support Alien Abduction Study - Rimmer


>From: Greg Sandow <greg.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 21:02:29 -0400
>Subject: Re: Why I Support Alien Abduction Study

>>From: John Harney <magonia.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 21:24:53 +0100
>>Subject: Re: Why I Support Alien Abduction Study


>>I think very few make any money out of it, but quite a few
>>get lots of attention, but they obviously crave attention.
>>Otherwise they would use only serious outlets to publish
>>their findings rather than appearing on light entertainment
>>TV shows and speaking at crazy UFO conferences. Whatever
>>their motives might be, their behaviour is not such as to
>>encourage scientists to take their work seriously.

>"Obviously crave attention."

>Some brief biographies:

>Budd Hopkins was a greatly successful painter when he got
>interested in UFOs. He destroyed his art career by concentrating
>on abductions. His friends - I've seen this first hand -
>included not only world-famous artists, but serious thinkers in
>many fields, one or two of them very famous, one just about a
>household name, at least among intellectuals.

I live in a very intellectual household. Perhaps you could tell
me who it is?

>Now some of those
>people (I've seen this first hand, too) think he's a little
>strange. He had all the attention anyone could want, personally
>and professionally. He risked it all for UFOs.

How many people have seen Hopkins' paintings in a gallery as
compared to the numbers who have read one of his abduction
books?

>David Jacobs was and (as far as I know; haven't talked to him in
>a year or so) an immensely popular professor at Temple
>University. No shortage of professional attention there, and no
>reason he couldn't have advanced himself as a scholar in his
>field, which is American history. He's certainly smart enough,
>and wonderfully well informed. But instead he studied
>abductions, and published abduction books and articles instead
>of scholarly papers in history journals. He has tenure at
>Temple, but never was promoted to the highest rank of full
>professor, and probably never will be. Again you have a man who
>didn't lack for attention or success, and damaged his career to
>work on abductions.

How many people have attended Jacob's lectures or read his
papers on American history as compared to the numbers who have
read his abduction books?

>John Mack is a successful psychiatrist, a professor at Harvard
>Medical School, and also the winner of a Pulitzer Prize - one of
>the highest honors in America - for a book about T.E. Lawrence.
>He published a book about abductions, and almost lost his
>position at Harvard. The attention he got from working on
>abductions was about the last thing anyone in his position ever
>wanted. He had plenty of attention for all his distinguished
>work before that.

How many people have read his book on T E Lawrence as compared
to the numbers who have read his abduction books?

>So, you see... the attention theory won't quite work in these
>four cases.

Well I think it does actually, as it's clear - "obvious" even -
 that these three people have attained a far higher public
profile from their abduction writing than they would ever have
done from their artistic or academic work. I'm not saying that
this is the sole reason for their abduction work, but don't try
to pretend that they would have had as much public attention as
they have had if they'd stuck to their day- jobs.



--
John Rimmer
Magonia Magazine
www.magonia.demon.co.uk/arc/00/newmag.htm








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   Apr > Apr 9

                               UFO Monthly.com

From: Chris Evers <celticmagic.nul>
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 23:35:05 +0100
Fwd Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2004 12:31:25 -0400
Subject: UFO Monthly.com



Hi EBK and Listers.

Whilst checking out details on the UK based Prufos web site I
came across the following report:

Russel Callaghan and Gary Heseltine, a British Transport
Policeman, are to launch a web based publication see details
below.....

The following information was taken from the soon to be up and
running web site at:

http://www.ufomonthly.com/default.htm

---

"The decision made by Gary Heseltine and myself to set about
producing a downloadable magazine in the style that readers have
become used to was not taken easy.

Since the sudden illness and tragic passing of my late father-
in-law Graham W. Birdsall 'founding editor of the UK based
news stand publication UFO magazine' in September last year, I
sat in the editors hot seat for six months until Graham's wife
Christine decided to close the company.

Gary and I realise that the many of loyal readers who subscribed
or bought UFO Magazine from the news stand each month will have
a genuine void in their routines. Our choice to use the Internet
as a publication medium was made because the actual cost of
publishing a glossy news stand title was basically prohibitive.
However the Internet based UFO Monthly will look and read like a
glossy publication.

It will be produced in the PDF format and although many of you
will have Adobe Acrobat Teader (trademark) installed on your
computers if you don't, the program is a free download.

If you have ever downloaded software from the Internet you will
have probably received an instruction manual in the PDF format.

The file system lets the reader flick through page by page or go
directly to a numbered page of their choice, you can also print
all or individual pages if you so wish.

The first issue of UFO Monthly will be available as a free
download from April 27th 2004 and thereafter on the 27th of each
month for the small payment of =A31.50 UK Sterling per issue.

All major credit and debit cards are accepted and no matter what
country you reside in our bank will convert your payment into
local currency on your bank statement.

To give overseas readers an idea of how much money =A31.50
represents here are a few examples.

UK petrol =A34.00 per gallon

USA gas =A31.20 per gallon

UK bottle Bud in a bar =A32.50

USA bottle Bud in a bar =A31.50

So we feel sure you will agree the price of UFO monthly
represents great value for money.

We hope our clientele will enjoy the features and articles
published in a style we feel you will be familiar with.

We are happy to receive submissions for consideration to be used
in our publication and advertisers can take advantage of some
special early deals.

For those interested in placing adverts or submitting work for
possible publication will find our contact details on the home
page."

---

Best regards,

Chris Evers
EYE
www.hufos1.karoo.net








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                    Re: Zeta Reticuli I & II? - Friedman

From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul>
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 20:06:17 -0300
Fwd Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2004 12:57:57 -0400
Subject: Re: Zeta Reticuli I & II? - Friedman


>From: Tim Shell<tshell.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Thu,  8 Apr 2004 07:59:50 -0500
>Subject: Re: Zeta Reticuli I & II?

>>From: Rod Brock <humble98225.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 17:20:45 -0700 (PDT)
>>Subject: Re: Zeta Reticuli I & II?

>>Do some people believe that there is an
>>advanced alien race living on a planet which orbits one or both
>>the component stars of Zeta Reticuli? Yes, most definitely.

>This is mostly because of the Marjorie Fish interpretation of
>the Betty Hill star map, right?  Has anyone done a more recent
>interpretation of the map, using a more sophisticated computer
>program or at least something a little more accurate than Fish's
>analog near-star model?  I was looking at the Koch-Kyborg
>interpretation, that says the Betty Hill map actually represents
>our own solar system, but I'm not completely sold on it.

>Maybe the Hill map is just to crude to be useful.

>Besides, my money's on 82 Eridani for the closest star with a
>really Earthlike planet in orbit.

I haven't been able to find a reason for accepting the Koch-
Kyborg map. Nobody is saying Zeta 1 and Zeta 2 Reticuli are the
closest sun-like stars to have planets. They are the closest-to-
each-other pair of sun-like stars in our neighborhood.

But the point of Marjorie Fish's work is that it didn't use a
computer model. It used the best available data on the positions
of the stars within about 40 or so light years to build 3D
models (about 25 all told) to determine if there were patterns
in the real world that matched the 2D map Betty had drawn.

The big problem was the distance data which was not terribly
accurate in the late 1960's when she began her work. The several
astronomers who checked her work, and then Dr. David Saunders
who computerized the star data, found that her work was quite
accurate as Dr. Mitchell of Ohio State Univ. Astronomy
Department noted in my movie "UFOs ARE Real!".

She at first found no matches with the map. But when the new and
better Gliese catalog of nearby star distances came out, she
rebuilt and found one and only one pattern that matched angle
for angle and line length for line length and which had the
shocking result that all the pattern stars were sunlike though
only 46 of the 1000 stars within 54 light years were sunlike.

Furthermore, she found that all the sunlike stars in the local
3D volume of space were part of the pattern. So all the right
kind, and only the right kind. The odds of this being chance are
better than 1 in 10,000.. some say one in a million.

Furthermore, she found that all the pattern stars are in a plane
(means less energy for travel)... quite unexpected, and that
Zeta 1 and Zeta 2 Reticuli, the base stars, are the closest to
each other pair of sunlike stars in our neighborhood.....

It probably wouldn't hurt to do the models again with the new
Hipparcos data and totally ignoring the false suggestion by Alan
Hendry repeated by James McGaha in the debate video "Are Flying
Saucers Real?" that one or both of these stars is a double and
therefore stable planetary orbits are unlikely.

Before and because of the relative inaccuracy of the distance
data, the separation between the 2 could have been anything
under a light year. Now we know it is 1/8th of a light year. We
also know that both stars are at least a billion years older
than the sun... some say 3 billion years older.

Several of the attacks on Marjorie's work are discussed in
Terence Dickinson's 1980 4 page update. I will include a copy
(send an SASE) if anybody wants his original 32 page full color
booklet the "Zeta Reticuli Incident" (5$ from me including
shipping at UFORI, POB 958, Houlton, ME 04730-0958). I have been
told that it is posted on the net, but I suspect the cost of the
printer-ink would be greater than $5.


Stanton Friedman







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                         PRG Update - April 9, 2004

From: Stephen G. Bassett <Disclosure2003.nul>
Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2004 21:28:33 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2004 13:15:57 -0400
Subject: PRG Update - April 9, 2004


PRG
Paradigm Research Group

American Candidate

The reality program "American Candidate," initiated by the FX
Channel and picked up by Showtime, is moving toward a summer
schedule. It is a serious project in which 12 citizens will "run
for president" within the confines of the program and millions
of viewers will vote their choices forward from episode to
episode. Issues which the "real" 2004 candidates would not dare
touch, will be debated. Top producers have been brought in to
create the series. It is a first of a kind program which could
become a summer hit.

Stephen Bassett, executive director of PRG, is one of several
hundred prospective candidates being considered for the final
12. His platform and campaign will be based upon the 2002
Congressional election in Maryland. Disclosure, congressional
hearings, secrecy reform, truth in government, and the emerging
national security state will be featured issues. If Steve can
make it onto the program, the matter of an extraterrestrial
presence and the government imposed truth embargo will be part
of the Showtime alternative presidential campaign. It is an
unusual and perhaps exceptional opportunity to project
exopolitics to a larger audience.

But your help is needed. Many of the prospective candidates,
including Steve, have a webpage on the American Candidate
website. Visit Steve's webpage at:

http://www.americancandidate.com/candidate_homepage.php?id1

for a snapshot of his campaign platform. To the right of the
photo you can click on [Supported] to add your nominating vote
for Steve to be on the final American Candidate series this
summer.

This is rare chance to put these issues on television during the
middle of a presidential election year. It could impact the
party candidates.

Please pass the above link and this email forward to you own
list. You can have someone on American Candidate speaking to
your issues.


X-Conference

National recording artists with 3 albums, Vyktoria Pratt
Keating, will be attending and performing at the X-Conference
Friday and Saturday evening. You can learn about this
accomplished performer at www.vyktoria.com

The projected total attendance for the X-Conference is now 600.
The Hilton Gaithersburg is booked, but a cancellation or two may
come in. The Holiday Inn Gaithersburg is taking bookings at:
301-977-8900 - booking code PAR. If the Holiday Inn books up,
the Motel 6 across the highway can be reached at: 301-977-3311.

Attendees can register at the conference.

The interview on "Independent Expression" at Shirleymaclaine.com
has been rescheduled to air April 18.

________________________________________________________

Paradigm Research Group
E-mail: ParadigmRG.nul
URL: www.paradigmclock.com
Cell: 202-431-2459
4938 Hampden Lane, #161
Bethesda, MD 20814
_________________________________________________________

1st Annual Exopolitics Expo - The X-Conference
Hilton Washington DC North/Gaithersburg - April 16-18, 2004
www.x-conference.com







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                       Re: Burt Rutan's Rocket - Woods

From: Mike Woods <mike.woods.nul>
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 22:49:55 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2004 13:19:20 -0400
Subject: Re: Burt Rutan's Rocket - Woods

>From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 06:21:48 -0700
>Subject: Burt Rutan's Rocket

>I bet you  Rutan gets the X-prize. FAA willing of course.

>http://apnews.myway.com/article/20040407/D81Q8VQ00.html

>GT McCoy

>Health and age not withstanding, I'd love to fly that thing.

Hey GT,

If we base it on track record, Rutan has to be favorite. Hope
you don't mind if I pull for the Canadian effort... the DaVinci
Group has a shot at it too... using a balloon primary lifter to
take its rocket up to launching altitude. We have to pray Ottawa
stays the hell out of it, though. Those idiots would probably
see it as belittling extraterrestrials and halt for being
intolerant. <sigh>


Mike W.








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                 First Science Fiction Museum & Hall Of Fame

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2004 13:44:19 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2004 13:44:19 -0400
Subject: First Science Fiction Museum & Hall Of Fame






[Thanks to Greg Boone for the lead and who wrote:

 "Well I guess this means I'll be visiting Seattle!"]

---

Source: Businesswire.com

http://home.businesswire.com/portal/site/altavista/index.jsp?ndmViewId=news_view
&newsId040408005724&newsLang=en


04-08-04


World's First Science Fiction Museum and Hall of Fame to Open
June 18, 2004 in Seattle

Seattle--(Business Wire)--April 8, 2004--The first institution
of its kind in the world, the Science Fiction Museum and Hall of
Fame (SFM), today announced it will open to the public on June
18, 2004. The museum - with an advisory board that includes the
world's top science fiction authors, filmmakers and designers
such as Greg Bear, Octavia Butler, James Cameron, Arthur C.
Clarke, George Lucas, and Steven Spielberg among others - will
explore how science fiction reflects and comments on the human
condition, promotes critical thinking about culture and society,
and invites us to ponder the universe's infinite possibilities.
A 501(c)(3) nonprofit institution, SFM is co-located with
Experience Music Project at Seattle Center, and was founded by
investor and philanthropist Paul G. Allen.

One of the most influential and appreciated artistic genres of
modern times, science fiction reflects society's hopes and
fears, and provides insight into the culture of the times of its
creators. Freed from the constraints and limitations of other
more conventional art forms, science fiction explores important
and relevant social issues with unbounded clarity, from
politics, culture and art, to architecture, transportation and
technology. The museum's exhibits and activities will
demonstrate how this dynamic and diverse genre touches all forms
of human expression, giving us new insights into ourselves and
the world around us.

The Science Fiction Museum and Hall of Fame will involve the
leading practitioners of the genre - writers, illustrators,
publishers, and filmmakers. These artists will be honored in a
"Hall of Fame," which will be showcased within the museum and
will serve as a locus for national annual awards, special
events, and publications.

Exhibit and Artifact Highlights:

- Science Fiction Timeline - an epic collage of ideas,
historical milestones, seminal events and key personalities set
against a changing background of historical and cultural
context.

- Not So Weird Science - the implications of new technology as
explored in science fiction, and the incredible new scientific
advances that will inspire the science fiction of tomorrow.

- Spacedock - the greatest spaceships from the annals of science
fiction movies, television, books and games are gathered
together for the first time in an orbital spacedock. Linked to a
visitor-activated database, you'll view stats on the crews,
missions, and engineering of great ships from SF, including Star
Trek's Enterprise, Alien's Nostromo, and Silent Running's Valley
Forge.

- The Tools and Technology of SF - verse yourself in the complex
technology and hardware that will guide you across the cosmos -
the laser blasters, transporters, phasers, tricorders, and
other imaginary tools that blend with serious science and make
those journeys possible.

- Alternate Modes of Travel - not all journeys require vehicles.
Science fiction staples such as wormholes, teleportation, space,
time and dimensional travel, and travel within our own minds,
are some examples. These alternate modes of travel often cause
us to examine ourselves and our world from many different points
of view not conceivable through conventional means.

- Amazing Places - explore the fantastic worlds and mind-
boggling environments as envisioned in classics of science
fiction art and literature.

- Cities of Tomorrow - view stunning computer-generated vistas
of some of the most famous SF cityscapes of past and present
futures - The Matrix, Blade Runner, and The Jetsons - and the
stories of those who call them home.

- Big Brother - here you weigh the perceived need for security
against the cost to personal freedom, and see how governments,
and the values they embrace, can result in utopias or dystopias
for their people.

- The Intergalactic Lounge - a gathering place of the most
famous and infamous extraterrestrials. Your fellow travelers in
the Interplanetary Lounge may look frighteningly foreign, but if
you take the time to listen to their stories, you might discover
the deep similarities between you.

- Metal or Mortal - a lineup of robots, androids and assorted
artificial beings, all of whom have a story to tell and are
programmed to tell it through entertaining dialog with visitors.

- Make Contact - allows visitors to continue their museum visit
beyond Science Fiction Museum and Hall of Fame. Through
interactive computer stations, you can tap into resources that
connect you to science fiction events, discussion groups, games,
programs, guest appearances, movie premiers, author readings,
and other related happenings ... around the block, or around the
world.

Visit www.sfhomeworld.org for more details, exhibit and artifact
imagery, and information on membership and sponsorship
opportunities.








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                     "Aliens Did It" Circle Investigator

From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO <hbccufo.nul>
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 22:10:15 -0700
Fwd Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2004 13:47:17 -0400
Subject: "Aliens Did It" Circle Investigator


On a lighter note:

Source: Terrace Standard News - Terrace British Columbia

http://www.terracestandard.com/

Terrace Standard News
April 7, 2004


Aliens Did It: Circle Investigator
by
Jennifer Lang

Mysterious Circles that appeared on Scott Ave. lawn last month
are the real deal, says Larry Sommerfield.

They're crop circles created by alien visitors who are secretly
monitoring our planet.

"Actually, I would call it lawn circles, not crop circles,"
notes Sommerfield, who has been monitoring the site since he saw
a photo in the Terrace Standard ("What in the world?" Page B1
March 17).

There's been very little change in their appearance, he said.

He's counted 16 circles of varying sizes. Some are a few inches
in diameter, others are a few feet wide.

Inside, the grass is still dead, while neighboring blades on the
lawn are growing taller and greener with each passing day.

"It could only be imitated by leaving a heavy weight there for
several days, and would be seen." says Sommerfield, a retired
tow truck driver and auto body repair man who lives in
Thornhill.

Just weeds are making a come back now that the snow has melted.

He notes the circles are located on the side of a ditch, leading
down a small embankment.

"A prankster would have put them in the center of the lawn where
they can be seen," he concludes.

So, why would alien visitors leave such baffling clues on
someone's lawn?

"It's simply the aliens way of letting us know they're around.
They want us to know they're there."

Sommerfield is something of a self-styled expert in the
paranormal. he became interested in alien activity after he
realized visitors from outer space have been monitoring Earth
for tens of thousands of years, a habit that increased once
humans began testing and detonating atomic bombs, ending the
Second World war but ushering in the Cold war.

"Until the atomic bombs went off, they just had a mild
interest," he says. "It's only when we entered the Space Age
they realized we were doing something to be concerned about."

He claims to have been the target of ongoing alien pranks.
invisible visitors from outer space occasionally steal objects
from his home, only to replace them several days later - but not
always in the original location.

"Normally, the stuff comes back in about four day's time," he
says, recalling a particular curious incident involving the
unexplained disappearance of a Frank Sinatra 8-Track tape that
contained the blue-eyed crooner's signature ditty, "My way".

Last year, Sommerfield and a colleague also found something they
believe is Sasquatch scat - droppings they hope to have analyzed
by a scientist.

So far, they still haven't heard back from any of the scientists
they contacted.

Meanwhile, Sommerfield says Scott Ave. resident Jean Thompson
shouldn't worry about the curious circles on her lawn.

"Just leave it. By fall it will grow back."







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                    Area 51 Microbiologist Ready To Talk

From: Royce J. Myers III <ufowatchdog.nul>
Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2004 03:20:57 -0700
Fwd Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2004 13:52:52 -0400
Subject: Area 51 Microbiologist Ready To Talk



Interesting, but I'll take this with a grain of Nevada sand (see
below)...

A quick google search on the alleged microbiologist had some
interesting results though:

http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=Danny+B+Cats
elas+Burisch

Guess we'll have to wait and see what turns up....

Regards,

Royce J. Myers III
UFOWATCHDOG.COM

-----

Source: eMediaWire -  Ferndale, Washington

http://www.emediawire.com/releases/2004/4/emw117400.htm

04-08-004


Area 51 Microbiologist Ready to Talk

Dr. Dan Burisch, who is in lock-down, working with the Lotus
project, seeks immunity to stand before a Congressional hearing
or other appropriate public body, to disclose his first-hand
knowledge, with proof, of U.S. government involvement in
designer viruses and other black-ops.

LAS VEGAS, NV USA (PRWEB) April 8 2004 -- Dr. Dan Burisch has
first-hand knowledge of the U.S. government's involvement in
funding the creation of designer viruses for use in biowarfare
and other applications. He is also intimately privy to other
covert operations that violate normal standards of human ethics.

Because such involvement could implicate him for war crimes
charges, he requests full immunity before making such
disclosure. The terms of his agreement prohibit that he should
specifically request such an appointment for disclosure. He has
stated that if subpoenaed he will disclose what he knows,
answering specific questions directly.

By splicing together components of various organisms,
microbiologists today are able to create new living organism
with specific outcomes, both in terms of target as well as
resulting disease.

Burisch stated that microbiologists have a way of encoding their
"signature" into the designer DNA they create, whether in short
sequences or those long enough to encode an entire virus.

As a possible scenario, for example, the signature could be
comprised of a short segment of base-pairs that bear the
microbiologists mark in such a way that other microbiologists
can see the signature and readily identify it.

Because Burisch does not yet have such disclosure immunity
granted, he spoke hypothetically, saying that if there were a
microbiologist involved in such activities, that the
microbiologist could place his signature on the resulting
organism, unbeknownst to those authorizing the project. That
signature could then be called forth from all progeny organisms
as evidence of the laboratory origin of the organism, and of the
exact microbiologist who created the organism.

This would then provide unambiguous proof more telling than
finger prints in a crime scene. In this case, such finger prints
are placed there intentionally with the intent of providing
retrospective proof of the deed.

Burisch would also like to press for disclosure of other matters
of which he has first-hand knowledge and evidence.

The revealing of his signature will also prove that Burisch is
indeed a Ph.D. level microbiologist -- a title that was erased
when he was inducted into his present covert operation. That
erasure was so complete that one could hardly find evidence that
Danny B Catselas Burisch ever lived if it were not for the
Internet and private sharing of documents of evidence. Catselas
was his father's last name. He had his name legally changed to
Burisch with a recent marriage to a woman by that last name, who
is also a principal in the covert operations.

He is presently working on the Lotus project at Area 51 north of
Las Vegas, in a secret extra-budget operation under the umbrella
direction of a non-elected shadow international governing body
that has covert ties to the U.S. government and with extra-
terrestrials.

The Lotus project involves studies of what is called a "Ganesh
particle" which is capable of repairing damages cells. The
Ganesh particle itself, which gives off light, has
characteristics of being a living intelligence.

Burisch has witnessed an extra-terrestrial being first-hand at
Area 51. That exposure included touch, probing, measuring body
function, communication via hand signals.

Burisch is witness to human subjects being held against their
will for experimentation per covert treaties between the U.S.
government and extra-terrestrial governing bodies. The treaty,
called Tau-IX, allows for abduction, removal of blood and
reproductive samples and tissue; and does not control whether
humans are maimed, tortured or that they might expire.

Burisch does not believe that these activities should be held
back from the knowledge of the American and International lay
community. His desire for disclosure is shared by others of his
colleagues.

There are even those among the directorate who are helping to
leak information from inside the covert operations out into
public domain.

A primary vector for this disclosure has been taking place on an
unmoderated forum at godlikeproducions.com under a thread about
Dan Burisch that is now in its fifth volume, with over 10,000
posts in all. There, those on the "inside" of the covert
operations ,who are defecting against their obligations to non-
disclosure, post information to the forum where it is openly
analyzed for authenticity and catalogued.

This forum thread commenced approximately six months ago and
recently had been losing momentum due to lack of concrete
information. Even with the occasional patch in to Burisch with a
web cam, there was no way to prove that the web cam footage was
not taken at a prior date.

Those on the forum were not even sure Burisch was actually
alive, and that it was him that they were conversing with on
these privileged disclosures on rare occasion.

As someone in the know has watched this process, he recently
decided to actually let two people from the "outside" have an
in-person meeting with Dr. Dan Burisch. Per a request made by a
major forum participant, Harry Dschaak (forum name: harrdrawk),
an invitation was extended for him and write-in U.S.
Presidential Candidate, Sterling D. Allan (forum name:
wallrace), to have an in-person meeting with Burisch.

A first attempt was made on April 3. The meeting was to have
taken place in front of the UNLV campus Leid library at 10:00
am. The two outsiders were coming in under the cover of being
inside directorate. This cover was exposed prior to the meeting
when it was determined by security that there were no inside
directorate coming into Vegas on the day appointed.

A second and successful attempt took place two days later at
another location, where a window of one hour stretched into
three as the two outsiders identified themselves with a pass
code that only could have been given them from someone trusted
on the inside.

On the following day, Allan reported on that encounter with a
post to the GLP forum. That was then followed up the next day,
April 7, with a leaked message in which Dan Burisch responded
point-by-point to Allan's report, as requested by an individual
named "J1 (Majesty/Directorate PD/SF, Washington, D.C.)".

The leaking of that document constitutes perhaps the most
unambiguous source of information regarding this covert
operation that has yet been obtained.

Within minutes of that post being made, the forum went down. But
those who intimately watch the forum immediately got on the
phone with each other and made a copy of the relevant page and
circulated it among their mailing lists.

When asked if this is the biggest development since the forum
thread commenced six months ago, Dschaak, Allan's running mate,
replied, "No, this is the biggest thing to happen since the JFK
assassination. We are on the verge of alien disclosure --
 something we have been seeking for decades."

Dschaak is in process of assembling a brief list of questions
that should be posed to Burisch in a hearing. Over the past six
months, GLP has accumulated a list of key questions to ask based
on the intelligence they have been gathering.

###

The above press release is found at:

http://www.greaterthings.com/News/ET/DanBurisch/PR040407/


References:

http://www.greaterthings.com/News/ET/DanBurisch/April07_04_Statement/
Dan Burisch' leaked reply to Sterling Allan's report.

http://www.greaterthings.com/News/ET/DanBurisch/April04/firstdraft.htm
Allan's report of the April 5 meeting with Burisch

http://www.angelfire.com/pe/peter7/Links/DanBmeeting.html
Back-up copy of Allan's report of his meeting with Dan Burisch

http://www.angelfire.com/pe/peter7/Links/meetingResponse.html
Back-up copy of Burisch' reply to Allan.

http://www.godlikeproducions.com
See: Forum > Thread about "Burisch"

http://www.angelfire.com/pe/peter7/project_otus/DanBurischForumLibrary.html
Peter7's library of GLP posts and key documents.

http://www.allan2004.com/press_releases/040124_extraterrestrial_frontier/
Allan/Dschaak Campaign site.


GENERAL INFORMATION ABOUT DAN BURISCH AND RELATED

http://www.skywatch-research.org/

Skywatch International, hosted by Bill Hamilton, who interviewed
Burisch in a room at UNLV on Sept. 18, 2002. He also visited
with Burisch in March of 2004, but was under non-disclosure in
that communication, as part of the project.

http://stealthskater.com/


CONTACT:

Harry Dschaak
phone: 208-548-2448; cell: 208-431-9346
email: harry.dschaak.nul









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             Re: Why I Support Alien Abduction Study - Goldstein

From: Josh Goldstein <lovolution.nul>
Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2004 03:30:30 -0800
Fwd Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2004 14:12:17 -0400
Subject: Re: Why I Support Alien Abduction Study - Goldstein


>From: Cathy Reason <CathyM.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 15:53:45 +0100
>Subject: Re: Why I Support Alien Abduction Study

<snip>

>In other words, we have absolutely no grounds for making any a
>priori assumptions about ETI at all, not about its motives, nor
>what it looks like, nor what it is (or is not) capable of, nor
>indeed anything else whatsoever.  If we have any a priori reason
>to believe that some phenomenon is a manifestation of ETI, then
>the properties of that ETI will be determined by observation,
>and not by any other means. In that sense, a priori arguments
>about what ETI is or is not capable of, or what it will do or
>why it will do it, are themselves ridiculous.

<snip>


Hi Cathy,

I just want to say that I am glad to see you active here again.
It is good to once again hear "the voice of reason" on this
frenetic forum.


Josh







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                 Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers

From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 08:38:07 EDT
Fwd Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2004 14:14:53 -0400
Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers


When all is said and done about the 'Alien Autopsy' footage the
real deal is it was hawked as entertainment and turned a good
buck for lots of people. Since it is 'show business' you have to
expect 'come ons' and 'cliff hangers' to push more product down
the line.

As for science, if all the data isn't going to be presented by
those who hold it then toss it out as bull by default. That'll
teach those ringmasters of spin!

Yet on another front I was suprised when glancing at early
official UFO reports and conclusions by our government agencies.
If you look back at the investigations from '47 to roughly '59
you'll see some startling accusations, conclusions and summaries
from bona fide agencies and commissioned officers. Maybe because
they're old they're ignored.

You old timers know what I'm talking about and I'm sure they're
compiled and presented in many of your works.

Way before the big 'abduction' phenom hit there were some solid
research and conclusions that basically end up in finger
pointing within government not citizens toward government and
vice-versa. Yea I know about compart- mentalization but there's
more there.

I know Jan's 'Project 1947':

http://www.project1947.com/

has some awesome news reports.


Best,

Greg








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              Re: Chupacabras On The Prowl Again In Argentia? -

From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 08:45:53 EDT
Fwd Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2004 14:15:53 -0400
Subject: Re: Chupacabras On The Prowl Again In Argentia? -


Normally I shun 'Chupacabra' stories but I don't invalidate the
people who witness or report them. Reason being we're always
finding some new critter somewhere when science and sense say
there's nothing there.

Yet recently someone in my neighborhood from Central and S.
America made a quip that really caught my attention. He's a
regular guy but in passing mentioned something that 'It has
hollow bones' regarding to some creature he described and the
fellows in the conversation regarded as this 'Chupacabra'. I
know some animals have hollow bones such as birds in some cases
and I'll have to hit the books on that.

The only thing that makes these 'Chupacabra' stories worth
investigating in my viewpoint is I've talked to people I've
known my entire life who've run into this thing and the rural
folk of the regions prize their live- -stock and don't kill
dozens of them for a prank. No insurance and if they lose a farm
animal or two some- -body starves for a few days.

Hollow bones. Very interesting.

Best,
Greg






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                     Suffolk Forest Yields UFO Surprises

From: Terry Groff <terry.nul>
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 07:58:49 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2004 14:18:01 -0400
Subject: Suffolk Forest Yields UFO Surprises


Source: The East Anglian Times - Essex & Suffolk UK

http://www.eadt.co.uk/content/news/story.asp?datetime=09+Apr+2004+05%3A51&tbrand
=EADOnline&tCategory=NEWS&category=News&brand=EADOnline&itemid=IPED08+Apr+2004+2
0%3A51%3A33%3A300


April 9, 2004

Suffolk forest yields UFO surprises

If you go down to Rendlesham Forest today, you could get more
than a big surprise - according to a new list compiled by the
country's leading UFO expert.

Nick Pope, who ran the Ministry of Defence UFO desk for three
years, has drawn up a list of the top 40 places in Britain where
you might come face to face with an extra-terrestrial.

And Rendlesham Forest, near Woodbridge, is in seventh position,
while Clacton-on-Sea, in Essex, is ranked 20th.

The list, topped by Bonnybridge in Lanarkshire, is the result of
months of research into reported UFO sightings and alien
abductions across the country.

Rendlesham Forest has long been associated with mysterious
sights and sounds, and UFO investigators believe its link with
other worlds goes back hundreds of years.

But it shot to fame across the globe in 1980, when American
service personnel and local civilians reported several sightings
of UFOs at RAF Bentwaters.

The case, which inspired countless studies and documentaries, is
also rumoured to have involved an actual crash landing - but no
hard evidence has ever been uncovered.

Brenda Butler, a UFO expert who lives in Leiston, wrote one of
the first books on the unexplained events of that night, called
Sky Crash.

Commenting on the list yesterday, she said: "I would have
thought that Rendlesham Forest should have been higher up - at
least number two, if not number one.

"It is one of the country's very hotspots for alien activity -
 it has been since the 1600's and it still is today.

"I don't know of any actual abductions that have happened at
Rendlesham Forest but there's been lots of missing time cases.

"Even now, we still got loads of what are called orbs and
streakers down there. I definitely think that there's a doorway
to other worlds there, along with a very high-energy field.

"I don't think that the list will attract more people to the
Forest - we already get a lot that come down because of its
reputation and what's been printed before."

Plans for a film about the famous 1980 incident in the Forest
have been backed by the East of England Development Agency,
after narrowly missing out in the Landmark East competition.








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             Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers - Shell

From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 08:15:44 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2004 14:20:54 -0400
Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers - Shell


>From: Dave Vetterick <veterick.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2004 09:40:50 -0500
>Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers

>The bottom line is there really is nothing further to be
>discussed until new information is uncovered or made available
>that can be verified.

My only thought about this is that ongoing discussion is
important, because it might demonstrate to the principals that
there is still enough interest in the matter to consider
releasing additional material or providing more information.

I can understand a hoaxer not wanting to overplay his hand, but
I also understand a hoaxer wanting to capitalize on the hoax
when there's maximum interest. Ten years is a long time to play
out the line.







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             Re: Why I Support Alien Abduction Study - Lehmberg

From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul>
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 08:24:15 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2004 14:22:52 -0400
Subject: Re: Why I Support Alien Abduction Study - Lehmberg


>From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2004 15:16:04 +0000
>Subject: Re: Why I Support Alien Abduction Study

<snip>

>Aside from the fact that John Harney's comments about Budd
>Hopkins show clearly that he doesn't know the man, I have reason
>to doubt that he (or some of his colleagues) have any
>understanding of logic or scientific method either.

>I was a formal student of logic (and did very well in it, thank
>you). Logic has nothing to do (except indirectly) with
>scientific validity. Logic has only to do with internal
>consistency and coherence of reasoning. One can reason entirely
>logcially and reach totally false conclusions if he/she has
>accepted false premises in the process. This can be an example
>of self deception.

>Another form of self deception can occur when someone reasons
>illogically. For example, assuming that both "x" and "non-x" are
>true at the same time. For a simple example, it is illogical to
>reason that something (e.g., the computer in front of you) both
>exists and doesn't exist.

>The strange phenomena reported in abduction cases (and I think
>Jerry Clark summed this up, in other terms, very well) are
>neither illogical nor irrational in and of themselves. Some may
>be paradoxical or seemingly inconsistent with our current
>science, but at this point no one can say with certainty what
>the answer is. In fact, I would say that it is irrational to
>suggest that abduction reports are all nonsense simply because
>some facets of the rpeorts don't make sense to us. John Harney
>ought to examine his own hidden premises that are leading him
>quite logically to a very dubious conclusion. I think he is
>being irrational.

Wow, sir! This is a lens, or mirror, that we _all_ need to
examine ourselves in, without exception!


alienview.nul
www.AlienView.net

Photo Album: http://www.alienview.net/AVAlbum.htm
(send picture as attachment to alienview.nul)
Splash page:   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AlienViewGroup/
Radio Show & Splash Page:  http://www.alienview.net/alienviews.htm
Radio Show Archives: Out of Service at this time...
http://www.alienview.net/N2Ltune.html -- The music in me...








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             Re: Why I Support Alien Abduction Study - Dickenson

From: Ray Dickenson <editor.nul>
Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2004 15:56:33 +0100
Fwd Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2004 14:27:27 -0400
Subject: Re: Why I Support Alien Abduction Study - Dickenson


>From: Cathy Reason <CathyM.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 15:53:45 +0100
>Subject: Re: Why I Support Alien Abduction Study

>In other words, we have absolutely no grounds for making any
>a priori assumptions about ETI at all, not about its motives,
>nor what it looks like, nor what it is (or is not) capable
>of, nor indeed anything else whatsoever.  If we have any a
>priori reason to believe that some phenomenon is a
>manifestation of ETI, then the properties of that ETI will
>be determined by observation, and not by any other means. In
>that sense, a priori arguments about what ETI is or is not
>capable of, or what it will do or why it will do it, are
>themselves ridiculous.

Congratulations to Cathy Reason.

Can we see why the "professionals" (claimants _and_ debunkers)
are afraid to answer her? - they don't want clear observation,
thought or logic.

Use of logic - illustrated at:

http://www.perceptions.couk.com/magic4.html

where root cause of unreason is sought - tells us one fact:
mainstream science, politicos, security orgs, corps & media have
painted themselves into a corner of unreasoning rejection &
suppression of truthful observation, analysis, or even
speculation.

That's a sure sign of a decaying society (at the top anyway). Is
it worth reviving?

Real-people input to magic4.html would be welcome -
"professionals" (claimants _or_ debunkers) are not expected to
contribute, as they make money from `unreason'.


Cheers

Ray D

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Perceptions" http://www.perceptions.couk.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~







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              Re: Why I Support Alien Abduction Study - Sandow

From: Greg Sandow <greg.nul>
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 11:44:53 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2004 14:40:54 -0400
Subject: Re: Why I Support Alien Abduction Study - Sandow


>From: John Rimmer <jrimmer.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 22:59:24 +0100
>Subject: Re: Why I Support Alien Abduction Study

This post from John Rimmer is truly appalling. I'll reply to one
of his questions quickly, and then get on to the main point,
which is what it's like to be "famous" - to have a public life,
to get attention from colleagues and the public at large.
Rimmer, I'd guess, doesn't have a public life, and doesn't know
many people (if any at all) who do. Certainly he has no idea
what it's like to have one. I can say that with complete
certainly, because I do have one, and have spent time with
people who are quite famous.

Rimmer or others may think - in what I'm going to write - that
I'm bragging, or dropping names, but that's not the case. I'm
just trying to acquaint poor John with a reality he seems not to
know about. What a wonderful pastime, to sit at home, drawing
conclusions about things (and people) you know nothing about! My
professional life would be a lot easier if I could do that, but
unfortunately, in my day jobs, I'm expected to actually know
what I'm talking about. Not Rimmer, clearly.

>>Budd Hopkins was a greatly successful painter when he got interested in
>>UFOs. He destroyed his art career by concentrating on abductions. His
>>friends - I've seen this first hand - included not only world-famous
>>artists, but serious thinkers in many fields, one or two of them very
>>famous, one just about a household name, at least among intellectuals.

>I live in a very intellectual household. Perhaps you could
>tell me who it is?

I can't. Budd (as far as I know) never uses his name in public,
and I'm certainly not going to. The gentleman in question
doesn't want people contacting him to ask what he thinks about
Budd and abductions. He's never spoken or written about those
things in his professional work, and any statement from him -
where his public career is concerned - would come completely
out of left field. Besides, he'd then be in the uncomfortable
position of, if he believes abductions might be real, taking a
stand that could put him in a bad position professionally. Or,
if he doesn't believe in their reality, he might be hurting a
friend by anything he said. I've met this person, at a party at
his home. We didn't speak about abductions or UFOs, though
others in the party - discovering that I was there as Budd's
friend - did speak on those subjects, not always favorably to
Budd.

One friend of Budd's with a distinguished scholarly career is
named in my piece on the Linda case. Rimmer can look that up.
This person told me that he didn't believe abductions were real,
but that Budd's work was nevertheless very impressive.

And now for topic A.


>>Now some of those
>>people (I've seen this first hand, too) think he's a little strange. He
>>had all the attention anyone could want, personally and professionally.
>>He risked it all for UFOs.

>How many people have seen Hopkins' paintings in a gallery as
>compared to the numbers who have read one of his abduction books?

<snip>

>How many people have attended Jacob's lectures or read his
>papers on American history as compared to the numbers who
>have read his abduction books?

<snip>

>How many people have read [John Mack's] book on T E Lawrence as
>compared to the numbers who have read his abduction books?

>>So, you see... the attention theory won't quite work in these four
>>cases.

>Well I think it does actually, as it's clear - "obvious" even
>- that these three people have attained a far higher public
>profile from their abduction writing than they would ever
>have done from their artistic or academic work. I'm not
>saying that this is the sole reason for their abduction work,
>but don't try to pretend that they would have had as much
>public attention as they have had if they'd stuck to their day-jobs.

Rimmer here makes a remarkably ignorant assumption - that, where
attention and acclaim are concerned, sheer numbers make for a
more rewarding experience. That is, the more people who know
about you and have contact with your work, the more satisfying
this will be for you.

Well, sure, if you're a pop singer, when more people buy your
records you make more money. Similarly for movie stars or
popular novelists. And of course there's a certain glow you get,
from time to time, from knowing that you're famous. Some people
let that run away from them (Michael Jackson comes to mind), and
demand as much public adulation as they can get. That, though,
is a disease. These people build their identities on fame and
public adoration, and wouldn't know who they were if they didn't
get those things. Very sad, especially when you've seen it in
action.

But for people grounded in normal reality, fame has many
downsides. I've seen Cher at a private party, for instance. She
was relaxed and natural, living up to the reputation she has
among people who know her that, in her normal life, she behaves
much like anybody else. I've also seen her in a small public
appearance, at a party for a group of record store and radio
people, who could help her promote a new album. She'd put on a
public persona that almost literally seemed to bend space in her
direction. Very impressive, and I can't say that she might not,
in some ways, have enjoyed that. But it was nothing like the way
she normally is! And for that reason it was also work, and in
some ways a burden.

I've hung out with Philip Glass, and - at intermissions of
concerts - seen him unable to take more than a step or two
without being seized by somebody he didn't know, who wanted to
chat with him, admire him, praise him, recall a friend they had
in common, etc., etc., etc. He bore it well, but he didn't love
it. I've seen him interrupted at professional gatherings by
people he didn't want to talk to, but had to stroke for
professional reasons. He has to abandon conversations he enjoys
to do that.

Jon Bon Jovi will tell anyone who asks that the unhappiest days
of his life were when he was most famous. I spent three days
with him once, watching him do interview after interview, to
promote a new album. He was unfailingly polite to everyone, and
then, when they were gone, would tell me with real passion how
much he hated doing it. One interview, with someone quite
obnoxious, went on too long. When the interviewer wouldn't stop,
after being asked several times, Jon literally ran out of the
room, shouting apologies as he went. One night he and I had
dinner, in an ordinary restaurant. He said that many people
noticed him, and that he was fervently glad that they hadn't
spoken to him.

But of course these three people benefit, quite tangibly, from
being so well known. I mention my experience with them only to
show that it's in no way an unmixed blessing. And when we get to
ufologists, that becomes gigantically true, as I'll explain in a
minute.

But first my own experience: I've written music criticism for
publications that are widely read, like The Wall Street Journal.
At this point, after 24 years of doing it, seeing my byline in
print doesn't give me much. And the reception of my mass-market
writing is rather diffuse. I'm likely to get e-mail and phone
calls from people I don't know and who may not have all that
much to say to me.

The reaction I get from serious colleagues in the music
business, on the other hand, means a lot more to me, and in fact
shows me that - by the measures that really matter to me - I'm
doing well. If I write about an orchestra, and some random
person calls me to say how much they loved it, well, I'm human,
I'm gratified, but it's also a pain in the butt, and that person
may not have anything useful to say. But if the executive
director of the Cleveland Orchestra (generally considered the
top orchestra in America) calls me to talk about what I've
written, then I'm truly gratified. Someone who really knows his
stuff thinks what I wrote was worth bothering about. Besides,
people like that are my friends, these days, so their reaction
means all the more to me. Result: I spend a lot more time
writing things that are read primarily inside the music business
(there are other reasons for that, too, that I won't get into -
one of them is that, believe it or not, they often pay more).
My life is much the better for it.

And then my visibility has downsides. I, too, am approached in
public by strangers or friends from long ago, maybe just at a
time when I'm enjoying a conversation with my wife, or someone
I'm really happy to be talking to. My ego isn't so vast that the
satisfaction of being recognized outweighs the annoyance.
Sometimes I'll wake up in the morning and realize, with a
shudder, "Oh, spit, I've got to go on the radio this afternoon.
I really wanted my day to be free." It's no long remarkable to
be on the radio. It's part of life, and the idea that numerous
people will hear me doesn't affect me much any more. I've run
into that many, many, many, many times with people I know.
Famous composers, for instance, will willingly do various forms
of public appearances (broadcasts, interviews, speeches). They
don't necessarily love it. I suppose we could all say we'd miss
it if it went away, but maybe not! For a lot of us, the ideal
would be to do our work in peace, and not be bothered at all.
Certainly that's how I feel, now that my composing has begun (in
a very early stage, still, but very encouragingly) to take off.

And now, ufologists. Certainly more people read Budd's UFO books
and see him on TV than saw his paintings. Though I wouldn't
minimize the incredible delight of having a painting hanging at
a major museum, where large crowds see it. But the key point is
this - the life you have as a painter is far more satisfying.
You make more money. (Typically - though skeptics often find
this hard to believe - ufologists don't make enough from their
books to pay for the time it took to write them, especially if
you count the time spent doing the work the books describe.) But
that's the least of it. Your colleagues are people you respect.
You like their work. The friendships enrich you. When you go to
a gallery opening, attended mostly by other people in the art
world, you really enjoy it. You have a gallery that shows your
work. The gallery owner likes what you do, and tells you so,
believably.

What does Budd get from being a ufologist? His books are
published by publishers who don't believe what they say. You go
to conferences, and - though you do enjoy some of your
colleagues, you quite literally cringe at many of the people you
meet. (I've been to conferences with Budd, and seen this. I
cringed myself.) You appear on TV shows you don't expect. You
appear on radio talk shows, and sometimes the host ridicules
you. Some of your friends start looking at you funny. What a
great life. At least, in my case, the small burden of people
wanting to talk to me (and phone me, and e-mail me) is more or
less a seamless part of things in my career that I really enjoy.
I don't get harangued by out and out nutcases, for example. But
that's not the case in ufology. The stuff you do in public
bears, in many ways, little relation to your serious work. You
do get harangued by nutcases, and others you can't respect. Plus
the ridicule (Rimmer's and John Harney's being just one of an
endless, unrelenting parade of examples - people who disagree
with you treat you, often enough, as if you're completely stupid
and itrrational). Plus the lack of financial reward, or
professional rewards of the kind people get from mainstream
careers, like painting (Budd) or academia (David Jacobs).

Anyone who thinks it's more satisfying being a ufologist than a
sucessful painter, just because a lot of people read your books
and see you on TV, doesn't know much about life. Or painting. Or
even ufology, come to think of it. Someone who thinks this
certainly doesn't know Budd. When he reminscences, telling
stories of things he's enjoyed in his life, I notice that it's
almost always about the art world.

John Mack may be partly an exception, because I think he enjoys
being charismatic. I think he likes being the center of a group
that's deeply devoted to him (in ways that Budd's abductees, who
meet very rarely, and don't participate in a functioning
organization, can't match). But at the same time, I think he's
lost a kind of professional credibility and respect that he
formerly could take for granted. He used to do - maybe still
does - "grand rounds", where he, as a distinguished medical
person, visits hospitals, and sees patients with the doctors and
residents. My sister, newly minted as a psychologist,
encountered him that way when she was at a hospital. She thought
he was a loon, because he talked about abductions. And that was
early in his abduction career. If he hadn't mentioned the
subject, maybe nobody would have brought it up. Now it's
unavoidable. When he meets psychiatric colleagues, he's now That
Abduction Guy. In a serious sense, they're not his colleagues
any more.

Not to mention, of course, the considerable blow he got from the
Harvard faculty. A considerable number of his larger circle of
colleagues considered him so crazy that they thought he should
be fired from his professorship, even though he had tenure. Do
we imagine he liked that? How many book sales does it take to
compensate for a blow like that? I'd suggest that - unless
you're a supremely shallow person - no amount of public success
can compensate. I don't know John well, but when I did have
contact with him, he'd talk a lot about scientists and medical
people who were coming around to his views. I suspected at the
time that he felt this especially deeply, because he'd been so
publicly rejected.

Poor John Rimmer. Does he know nothing at all about life? I have
to laugh, really, at what his ideas about all this. I've had
attention in the UFO world (and an offer to write a book); I've
also had attention in the classical and pop music worlds. The
idea that ufology can give you a more satisfying life than
success in a mainstream profession - that's really crazy.


Greg Sandow








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               Re: Why I Support Alien Abduction Study - Clark

From: Jerome Clark <jkclark.nul>
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 11:13:05 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2004 14:44:16 -0400
Subject: Re: Why I Support Alien Abduction Study - Clark


>From: John Rimmer <jrimmer.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 22:59:24 +0100
>Subject: Re: Why I Support Alien Abduction Study

>>From: Greg Sandow <greg.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 21:02:29 -0400
>>Subject: Re: Why I Support Alien Abduction Study

>>>From: John Harney <magonia.nul>
>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 21:24:53 +0100
>>>Subject: Re: Why I Support Alien Abduction Study


Patient and gentle Listfolk:

>>Now some of those
>>people (I've seen this first hand, too) think he's a little
>>strange. He had all the attention anyone could want, personally
>>and professionally. He risked it all for UFOs.

>How many people have seen Hopkins' paintings in a gallery as
>compared to the numbers who have read one of his abduction
>books?

>>David Jacobs was and (as far as I know; haven't talked to him in
>>a year or so) an immensely popular professor at Temple
>>University. No shortage of professional attention there, and no
>>reason he couldn't have advanced himself as a scholar in his
>>field, which is American history. He's certainly smart enough,
>>and wonderfully well informed. But instead he studied
>>abductions, and published abduction books and articles instead
>>of scholarly papers in history journals. He has tenure at
>>Temple, but never was promoted to the highest rank of full
>>professor, and probably never will be. Again you have a man who
>>didn't lack for attention or success, and damaged his career to
>>work on abductions.

>How many people have attended Jacob's [sic] lectures or read his
>papers on American history as compared to the numbers who have
>read his abduction books?

>>John Mack is a successful psychiatrist, a professor at Harvard
>>Medical School, and also the winner of a Pulitzer Prize - one of
>>the highest honors in America - for a book about T.E. Lawrence.
>>He published a book about abductions, and almost lost his
>>position at Harvard. The attention he got from working on
>>abductions was about the last thing anyone in his position ever
>>wanted. He had plenty of attention for all his distinguished
>>work before that.

>How many people have read his book on T E Lawrence as compared
>to the numbers who have read his abduction books?

>>So, you see... the attention theory won't quite work in these
>>four cases.

>Well I think it does actually, as it's clear - "obvious" even -
> that these three people have attained a far higher public
>profile from their abduction writing than they would ever have
>done from their artistic or academic work. I'm not saying that
>this is the sole reason for their abduction work, but don't try
>to pretend that they would have had as much public attention as
>they have had if they'd stuck to their day- jobs.

I appreciate John Rimmer's effort to provide us with an
especially telling example of pelicanist logic (yes, yes, I
know, an oxymoron; I use the phrase simply for the sake of
discussion). I hope that all will keep this instance in mind
when, as is their stock in trade, John and others in his psychic
friends network try to read the minds and motives of other
ufologists and UFO witnesses.

It is wise to remember that in the realm of so-called
psychosocial ufology, ridicule as a factor in the psychological
and social aspects of the UFO controversy has received virtually
no attention - as why should it, since "psychosocial" is merely,
in that school's hands, a pompous title for what more forthright
practitioners call debunking? Or, for that matter, since the so-
called psychosocial ufologists - at least the ones who are
active on this List and who fill the pages of Magonia -- are
themselves so obsessively engaged in their own employment of
ridicule?

Ridicule's large role in keeping witnesses silent and
discouraging scientists, academics, and other culturally
credentialed individuals from pursuing UFO study (and bringing
derision and professional retaliation on those who do, as Greg
Sandow points out) has even been denied both explicitly and, as
in Rimmer's weird outburst, implicitly. It's sadly obvious - a
good pelicanist adjective - that Rimmer knows neither the
personalities Greg mentions nor the bitter ordeals they have
undergone as public champions of the notion that abductions may
indeed be worth investigating as evidence of an unearthly
presence.

Apparently, on the basis of no evidence whatever and against
every indication to the contary, we are to believe that these
respected professionals did serious damage to their accomplished
primary careers out of a narcissistic desire to become pop
stars, to grab all the cash and acclaim that come to those once-
respected persons who publicly advocate highly unorthodox,
deeply against-the- grain ideas which in mainstream media will
ensure they are treated as crackpots. But then, since when does
a pelicanist need something so inconsequential as evidence to
smear somebody? In any event, who cares about staying in the
high regard of employers, colleagues, students, and professional
societies when one can be a celebrity at a MUFON convention?

For some time I have labored to take the Johns seriously,
knowing - as they, it is now clear, do not - that perfectly
honorable, rational individuals often come to different
conclusions about difficult, contentious matters. I am afraid I
am now going to abandon the effort.

What we have above is the intellectual capacity and insight of a
buffoon. It serves only to underscore the point that I made to
the other John: that if they are now reduced to arguments such
as these, perhaps it is long past time that they retire from
their labors and our midst. Maybe it's time for the rest of us
to stop paying attention to them, since it is attention, one
finally infers, that they are so desperate to attract to
themselves and thus so eager to project as the motivation of
others.


Jerry Clark








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                  Re: Why I Support Alien Abduction Study -

From: Virgilio Sanchez-Ocejo <ufomiami.nul>
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 13:01:02 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2004 14:49:45 -0400
Subject: Re: Why I Support Alien Abduction Study -


I welcome any scientific study into the alien abduction
phenomenon. But, in the same way that the UFO phenomenon deals
with different entities - or alien 'programs' - in different
countries, alien abductions happen all over the world, and the
experiences differ from country to country - Japan, France,
Germany, South America, etc.

My question is: How, Professor Chris French's scientific study
on abductions could deal with abduction cases outside the USA
and UK?

A red flag arises on the coverage. How accurate, world-wide,
will the result be?


Dr. Virgilio Sanchez-Ocejo
Miami UFO Center







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                      Dangerous Space Rocks Under Watch

From: Diana Cammack <cammack.nul>
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 10:51:15 -0700
Fwd Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2004 14:52:12 -0400
Subject: Dangerous Space Rocks Under Watch


Source: CNN.Com

http://www.cnn.com/2004/TECH/space/04/08/space.collision.reut/index.htmlsteroid

April 8, 2004

Dangerous Space Rocks Under Watch

A protection plan proposed

Washington (Reuters) -- They are out there, ready to smack into
the Earth and wipe out human civilization, but astronomers said
on Wednesday they are well on their way to finding every
asteroid that poses a threat.

The next task will be to look for smaller objects that might
just destroy, say, a city, the experts told the U.S. Senate's
Subcommittee on Science, Technology and Space.

In an update on the Near Earth Object Observation Program,
experts told the Senate subcommittee that they are on schedule
to finding everything bigger than 1 kilometer in diameter that
might approach the planet.

"The survey officially started in 1998 and to date more than 700
objects of an estimated population of about 1,100 have been
discovered, so the effort is now believed to be over 70 percent
complete and well on the way to meeting its objective by 2008,"
NASA's Lindley Johnson told the hearing.

There have been a few scares.

Last September, scientists spotted asteroid "2003 QQ47" and
first measurements suggested it could hit the Earth on March 21,
2014, with an explosion the size of 20 million Hiroshima atomic
bombs. But the forecast was revised: It won't hit, after all.

Objects certainly have hit the planet. An asteroid, or several
asteroids, are believed to have kicked up so much dust and set
off so much volcanic activity 65 million years ago that the
resulting climate change wiped out the dinosaurs.

But scientists believe an event of that size would only occur
about every 700,000 years on average.

A smaller asteroid is believed to have leveled 400 square miles
of Siberian forest in 1908.

"Although the probability of the Earth being hit by a large
object in this century is low, the effects of an impact are so
catastrophic that it is essential to prepare a defense against
such an occurrence," Michael Griffin, head of the Space
Department at the Johns Hopkins University Applied Physics Lab,
told the hearing.

But when? "At the current state of knowledge it is about as
likely to happen next week as in a randomly selected week a
thousand years from now," said Johnson.

If an asteroid was confirmed to be on a catastrophic collision
course with Earth, the experts said it would take about 30 years
to get ready to do anything about it.

"The Space Shuttle's main engines and the fuel contained in the
large external tank could successfully deflect a 1 kilometer
object if it were applied about 20 years in advance," of a
projected collision, Griffin said.

Using a nuclear bomb might make matters worse because the pieces
of the blown-up asteroid would stay in the same orbit and
eventually come back together again.

The next task will be to find smaller objects that may not
destroy the Earth but could do considerable damage if they hit,
the scientists said.

A single satellite orbiting the sun just inside the Earth's
orbit could find 90 percent of all near-Earth objects 100 meters
or more in diameter within 10 years, Griffin said. It would cost
about $300 million and could be ready within five years, Griffin
said.








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               Re: Another Metallic Sound On ISS - Scheldroup

From: John Scheldroup <jschel.nul>
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 13:15:34 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2004 14:54:25 -0400
Subject: Re: Another Metallic Sound On ISS - Scheldroup


>From: Joe McGonagle <joe.mcgonagle.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 00:07:08 +0100
>Subject: Re: Another Metallic Sound On ISS

>>From: John Scheldroup <jschel.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 10:46:04 -0500
>>Subject: Re: Another Metallic Sound On ISS

><snip>

>>The other thing is the velocity of small particle "debris". If I
>>take a beer can and place it into my can crusher and slowly pull
>>down on the handle, it would seem that for every little piece of
>>noise generated, each will have more time then the next to
>>become absorbed and richochet elsewhere in the room. A very
>>noisy sound indeed, but if I pulled down on the handle a little
>>faster this time we again have the same noise only acting out in
>>less time.

>Ahh! You got it in one!

>It must have been a passing flying saucer jettisoning their
>empty Grolsch cans!


Joe, we can't kid ourselves, the last time I checked up on them
one would have stepped inside the garage to clearly notice that
very few of these cans are in fact "crushed".

You know, I would never have imagined it or given as much to a
thought in the day, that my own recycle tin products could be
used or contribute to or besides keeping our environment clean
and safe. In fact this may no longer be true. It has come to my
attention that these tin products may one day help out the NASA
space program.

Yes, well the idea is to solder weld them all together so as to
construct one hundred tin-can space stations approx. Albeit that
each space station is at a reduced scale. Following construction
of each with solar arrays attached, "all space stations" to be
suspended from half a dozen trees using fishing line.

Finally as to what to do with the experiment, one will of course
need a high powered bb gun,.. but you might ask what for that's
crazy? or why go to the trouble if not to destroy them all?.

I think I will best answer that by saying the entire mad
scenario fits into an category so rightly named the "Need to
Know business". As for one example, when I need to know how the
number crunchers over at NASA do it, are they using their
collision data against actual known collisions. With regards to
the so called tin-can noises, I need to know what are the after
effects when tested these particle "debris" speeds.

I realize that my own test lab results above hanging from the
trees might seem less precise compared to actual running NASA's
numbers, but one can't dismiss their built-in entertainment
value either.


John








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                    Re: Burt Rutan's Rocket - Scheldroup

From: John Scheldroup <jschel.nul>
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 19:08:52 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2004 14:55:57 -0400
Subject: Re: Burt Rutan's Rocket - Scheldroup


>From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 06:21:48 -0700
>Subject: Burt Rutan's Rocket

>I bet you  Rutan gets the X-prize. FAA willing of course.

>http://apnews.myway.com/article/20040407/D81Q8VQ00.html


The piggy-back again what about helium lift power?

http://www.omsi.edu/visit/physics/air/science/helium/more.html

Remember the US Navy's helium dirigable's back in the 30's,
successful it would seem, could they lift the weight it would
take to escape earth's gravity I wonder?

By helium lift to take three bodies and a rocket to 70,000 feet
close to the equator at which point the rocket will drop and
rockets will fire... hopefully <G>







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                   Re: Zeta Reticuli I & II? - Scheldroup

From: John Scheldroup <jschel.nul>
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 19:39:22 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2004 14:57:32 -0400
Subject: Re: Zeta Reticuli I & II? - Scheldroup


>From: Tim Shell<tshell.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Thu,  8 Apr 2004 07:59:50 -0500
>Subject: Re: Zeta Reticuli I & II?

>>From: Rod Brock <humble98225.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 17:20:45 -0700 (PDT)
>>Subject: Re: Zeta Reticuli I & II?

>>Do some people believe that there is an
>>advanced alien race living on a planet which orbits one or both
>>the component stars of Zeta Reticuli? Yes, most definitely.

>This is mostly because of the Marjorie Fish interpretation of
>the Betty Hill star map, right?  Has anyone done a more recent
>interpretation of the map, using a more sophisticated computer
>program or at least something a little more accurate than Fish's
>analog near-star model?  I was looking at the Koch-Kyborg
>interpretation, that says the Betty Hill map actually represents
>our own solar system, but I'm not completely sold on it.

>Maybe the Hill map is just too crude to be useful.

>Besides, my money's on 82 Eridani for the closest star with a
>really Earthlike planet in orbit.


http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/1998/nov/m29-005.shtml

http://www.gravitywarpdrive.com/Zeta_Reticuli_Incident.htm








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              Re: Chupacabras On The Prowl Again In Argentia? -

From: Virgilio Sanchez-Ocejo <ufomiami.nul>
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 13:49:10 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2004 14:59:11 -0400
Subject: Re: Chupacabras On The Prowl Again In Argentia? -


>From: Scott Corrales <lornis1.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 11:42:34 -0400
>Subject: Chupacabras On The Prowl Again In Argentia?

>Source: El Diario (Parana-Province of Entre R=EDos)
>Date: O4-07-2004

>Is The Chupacabras On The Prowl Again?

>Upon approaching it to see what was wrong, he found that his
>animal was missing a left eye, hide and flesh in a 5 centimeter
>circumference  around its belly. What startled the farmer the
>most was the absence of blood on the animal and anywhere in the
>vicinity. Kint stated that he called a private veterinarian who
>visited the site and attested to the missing organs, but who was
>otherwise unable to offer an explanation for the animal's death.

By the description, it looks more like a "Cattle Mutilation"
than a "Chupacabras" attack.


Virgilio S=E1nchez-Ocejo
Miami UFO Center






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             Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers - Kaeser

From: Steven Kaeser <steve.nul>
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 09:45:27 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2004 22:43:57 -0400
Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers - Kaeser


>From: Maurizio Baiata <maurizio.baiata.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2004 18:11:07 +0200
>Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers

<snip>

>To answer Gildas, briefly, as to my direct involvement in
>viewing the "second autopsy":

>- Yes: this never seen publicly autopsy - was shown to Reg
>Presley and me by Ray Santilli in his office. The date was April
>25, 1995, around 2:00 p.m. No one else was present, but
>Santilli, Presley and me. We asked Santilli to see it twice.
>Reluctantly, he fulfilled our request.

Hi Maurizio,

Just a quick note of clarification,

The first autopsy footage (or video) shown by Santilli in London
at a public forum, and was later shown on Channel 4 in Britain
and the FOX network in the US, was known as the "Second Autopsy"
because it was allegedly "filmed" more an a year after the other
autopsy sequence he has. The footage shown has been labeled the
"Second Autopsy". I believe that Gildas (and most of those
interested in the world) has seen the sequence you were shown.

I only mention this because there's some confusion that can
easily develop.

>- Yes: there was a general view of the intact body. I thought,
>and still think, that the two bodies looked slightly different,
>besides the wounds. The type of incision, as you know, was
>different (vertical, not a "Y").

>- The video of the second autopsy, as far as I know, was never
>shown publicly, but to a very limited amount of people.

>- To be exact: 5 still pictures, taken from the second autopsy
>film, where published in an issue of Notiziario UFO, the
>monthly Italian UFO magazine, at the time directed by me. I'd
>received these stills in a video format (VHS) sent to me by Ray
>Santilli. I do have the VHS in my possession.

I only knew of the VHS copy sent to Bob Shell, and there may be
a few others out there as well.

>BTW, I'm still at work on this frustrating subject. And, don't
>have a solution, yet.

I tend to agree with another post in this thread that said this
was really a "dead" issue unless Ray Santilli comes forth with
verifiable information. So far it's been frustrating. As noted
earlier, Philip Mantle has been involved in this as a researcher
from the beginning and has seen both of the autopsy sequences. I
believe his latest information on the AA tangent is available at
www.beyondroswell.com.

Take care and keep up your good work.


Steve







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             Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers - Mantle

From: Philip Mantle <suemantle.nul>
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 11:50:21 +0100
Fwd Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 09:07:01 -0400
Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers - Mantle


To answer some of the questions recently posted on the list
concerning the alien autopsy film. First, I have viewed the
other autopsy sequence and it has never been shown in public. It
does show the complete creature with no bodily injuries. It is
dissected but first an instrument is inserted into the creatures
'vaginal area' and something is removed.

The tent footage is 100% fake. This is not based on third hand
testimony but by those who acted in it and who filmed it. This
was uncovered by myself and my colleague Tim Matthews. We in
turn tipped of the Sunday Mail newspaper who ran a feature. I
published an article on this recently in the now defunct UFO
MAGAZINE in the UK.

The remaining 2 autopsy films and debris film remain open to
debate as far as their authenticity is concerned. There is
'evidence' to support both sides of the argument.

I have here an almost completed manuscript that covers every
aspect of the alien autopsy story.It tells the story from the
beginning, who said what, who saw what. It studies the film from
every angle. There is one chapter from film/movie experts,
another chapter from FX artists, another from the medical
profession, and on it goes.

The conclusion, such that it is, looks at a number of
possibilities. The film is authentic (alien), it is authentic
but it is a military propaganda film of some kind, it is a fake
purely made for money, or it depicts some poor unfortunate human
with a variety of genetic defects. In the end you view all of
the evidence pro and con first, then decide for yourself. The
only problem is that I don't have a publisher. ANY TAKERS ?  It
is fully illustrated and is the most complete book on this damn
film ever written.

We even have one chapter that tells the whole tent footage hoax
saga, another that interviews several people who claim to have
seen the film many years prior to Santilli's ownership, and
there is even a chapter on abductees who claim to have
encountered the same six-digit creature.

I do believe that Bob Kiviat is back in the producers chair and
I may be helping him, but know one has more information on what
sill is THE MOST CONTROVERSIAL FILM IN THE ENTIRE HISTORY OF UFO
RESEARCH. Of that I am 100% sure.

If you would like to view more information please do take a look
at the alien autopsy archive section of our web site at:

www.beyondroswell.com


Regards,

Philip Mantle
philipmantle.nul







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              Re: First Science Fiction Museum & Hall Of Fame -

From: Bruno Mancusi <swissufo.nul>
Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2004 21:26:26 +0200
Fwd Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 09:11:20 -0400
Subject: Re: First Science Fiction Museum & Hall Of Fame -



>[Thanks to Greg Boone for the lead and who wrote:

> "Well I guess this means I'll be visiting Seattle!"]

>---

>Source: Businesswire.com

>http://home.businesswire.com/portal/site/altavista/index.jsp?ndmViewId=news_vie
w&newsId040408005724&newsLang=en

>04-08-04

>World's First Science Fiction Museum and Hall of Fame to Open
>June 18, 2004 in Seattle

>Seattle--(Business Wire)--April 8, 2004--The first institution
>of its kind in the world, the Science Fiction Museum and Hall of
>Fame (SFM), today announced it will open to the public on June
>18, 2004.


There is already a science fiction museum at Yverdon-les-Bains,
Switzerland: The House Of Elsewhere (Maison d'Ailleurs):

http://www.ailleurs.ch/index_en.asp

The Maison d'Ailleurs was created in 1976 by French author
Pierre Versins, aka Jacques Chamson (1923-2001).


Bruno









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               Re: Why I Support Alien Abduction Study - Pope

From: Nick Pope <nick.nul>
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 20:45:39 +0100
Fwd Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 09:14:25 -0400
Subject: Re: Why I Support Alien Abduction Study - Pope


>From: Virgilio Sanchez-Ocejo <ufomiami.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 13:01:02 -0400
>Subject: Re: Why I Support Alien Abduction Study

>I welcome any scientific study into the alien abduction
>phenomenon. But, in the same way that the UFO phenomenon deals
>with different entities - or alien 'programs' - in different
>countries, alien abductions happen all over the world, and the
>experiences differ from country to country - Japan, France,
>Germany, South America, etc.

>My question is: How, Professor Chris French's scientific study
>on abductions could deal with abduction cases outside the USA
>and UK?

>A red flag arises on the coverage. How accurate, world-wide,
>will the result be?

While there are some apparent differences in the phenomenon in
different countries, it's not clear whether this is attributable
to any actual differences in any external, physical stimuli, or
whether cultural factors come into play and affect the way in
which these experiences are interpreted and reported by
experiencers, ufologists and the media.

The best answer I can give to your question is that the data
gathered by Professor Chris French and his team will, when
published, be something on which similar studies in other
countries can build. I suspect that the need to have the
abductees physically present precludes (not least because of
administrative difficulties, travel costs, etc.) a truly
international study for the time being.


Best wishes,

Nick Pope







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   Apr > Apr 10

                        President Stephen G. Bassett?

From: Larry W. Bryant <overtci.nul>
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 13:13:05 -0400 (EDT)
Fwd Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 15:55:00 -0400
Subject: President Stephen G. Bassett?



President Stephen G. Bassett?

By Larry W. Bryant

Imagine, in the summer of 2004, the arrival of a new TV reality
show centered on having the viewing audience vote for and select
a "people's candidate" for President of The United States - a
man or woman chosen from a field of 12 finalists who through
their own dedicated electoral websites and through their
interactive political show-and-tell with fellow candidates can
create both entertainment and political history, simultaneously.

Well, imagine no more: the show's time indeed has come - for its
debut in August under the title "American Candidate". Originally
conceived by the Fox TV network, its 10-episode broadcast has
been sold to the cable TV network ShowTime.

One of the recently declared candidates - Stephen G. Bassett of
Bethesda, Md., - already has won my support. After all, Steve
has a commendable track record in running for national office:
i.e., his independent candidacy for Maryland's eighth
congressional district a couple of years ago. In that contest,
as in this one, his platform's centerpiece called for the
official, unequivocal government disclosure of UFO-E.T. reality.
Suffice it to say that, in his candidacy, you're getting not
just a man with a mission but also a mission with a man - a true
independent with a passionate, unalterable quest for the truth.

For all the details, check out Steve's website now hosted as
follows:

http://www.americancandidate.com/candidate_homepage.php?id=201

As you visit the site, note its opportunity for you to
electronically register your formal support to his candidacy.
 Can real-time, interactive politics get any better than this?

Of course, if you happen to favor the 60-year-long government
cover-up of the UFO experience, then perhaps you'd prefer to
ignore Steve's candidacy. However you cast your vote, history
awaits your participation in this novel experiment.


Larry W. Bryant
Director, Washington, D.C., office of Citizens Against UFO Secrecy










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                   Re: Ripped-Off Map Image By German Site

From: Joachim Koch <lists.nul>
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 15:37:56 +0100
Fwd Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 16:08:18 -0400
Subject: Re: Ripped-Off Map Image By German Site


>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates -Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 01:24:25 -0700
>Subject: Ripped-Off Map Image By German Site

>Hello all:

>Can somebody who reads German help me here?

>Looking thru the logs for my website, I found this web
>page deep-linking one of my UFO maps. There is _no_
>indication that they give credit to the source (my work
and site), nor a link back.

>Please check this out whether you can read the text or
>not:

>http://www.faktinfo.de/forum/messages/16818.htm

>I can't read German. I don't know if they are giving
>credit or taking credit (20 years work by the way) or
>something else entirely.

Dear Larry,

I can read German! :-)I will contact the man who is known to me.
He surely will contact you because I couldn't find what you mean
because the web address you provided gives me only a blank page.

Joachim

-----------------------------------
More info: http://www.kochkyborg.de
-----------------------------------








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                Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers -

From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais.nul>
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 19:24:24 +0200
Fwd Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 11:22:23 -0400
Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers -


>From: Steven Kaeser <steve.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 09:45:27 -0400
>Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers

>>From: Maurizio Baiata <maurizio.baiata.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2004 18:11:07 +0200
>>Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers

><snip>

>>To answer Gildas, briefly, as to my direct involvement in

>>- Yes: this never seen publicly autopsy - was shown to Reg
>>Presley and me by Ray Santilli in his office. The date was April
>>25, 1995, around 2:00 p.m. No one else was present, but
>>Santilli, Presley and me. We asked Santilli to see it twice.
>>Reluctantly, he fulfilled our request.

>Just a quick note of clarification,

>The first autopsy footage (or video) shown by Santilli in London
>at a public forum, and was later shown on Channel 4 in Britain
>and the FOX network in the US, was known as the "Second Autopsy"
>because it was allegedly "filmed" more an a year after the other
>autopsy sequence he has. The footage shown has been labeled the
>"Second Autopsy". I believe that Gildas (and most of those
>interested in the world) has seen the sequence you were shown.

>I only mention this because there's some confusion that can
>easily develop.

>>- Yes: there was a general view of the intact body. I thought,
>>and still think, that the two bodies looked slightly different,
>>besides the wounds. The type of incision, as you know, was
>>different (vertical, not a "Y").

To Maurizio, Steven and Philip

Thank you for your information.

My question was to try to answer those who felt there was only
one body, for the two films. From what you say, there were most
probably two different bodies. In the film shown publicly, the
second film if you like, the incision of the body begins with
the two upper branches of the Y. So, if the other film shows
only a vertical incision, it had to be on another body, it seems
to me. Which raises the following question:

If it is a simple hoax, why double the costs and show only one?

Now, I don't say that it proves anything, one way or another.


Gildas








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   Apr > Apr 11

             Re: Jerry Black To Polygraph Bruce Maccabee - Black

From: Jerry Black <gulfbreezeinfo.nul>
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 12:18:19 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 11:34:30 -0400
Subject: Re: Jerry Black To Polygraph Bruce Maccabee - Black


>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 18:05:01 -0500
>Subject: Re: Jerry Black To Polygraph Bruce Maccabee


April 5, 2004

Dr. Bruce Maccabee,

Nice try, as I clearly stated in my request for you to take a
polygraph test, this test is only to establish the flow of the
money from Mr. Ed Walters.

The test will determine if you received money either directly or
indirectly from the pockets of Mr. Ed Walters between January 1,
1988 to August 1, 1988.

Most importantly, during the time period of January 1, 1988 to
August 1, 1988, were you made aware either from Mr. Ed Walters
or the MUFON Organization that you would be receiving monies in
the future from the pockets of Mr. Ed Walters.

The only way you can get me off your back is if your good friend
Mr. Ed Walters would take, and pass a three party polygraph test
paid for by me. We both know this is not going to happen.

I have already obtained the services of a polygraph expert 30
miles from your home. Final arrangements are being made as we
speak.


Jerry Black

1-877-731-8400

or

P.O. Box 125
Blanchester, Ohio 45107







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   Apr > Apr 11

                  Re: No Flow Of Gulf Breeze Money - Black

From: Jerry Black <gulfbreezeinfo.nul>
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 12:24:02 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 12:08:15 -0400
Subject: Re: No Flow Of Gulf Breeze Money - Black


>From: Robert Gates <RGates8254.nul>
>To: updates.nul
>Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 23:51:09 EST
>Subject: No Flow Of Gulf Breeze Money

>Bottom Line Of The No Flow Of Gulf Breeze Money

>As this issue has been batted around a lot, I would like to
>share with the List the results of my inquiries.

>The issue was raised by Jerry Black who (based upon tales and
>stories allegedly told by Rex Salisbury, Vickie Lyons and
>others) that Ed Walters sent a large bundle of cash to MUFON and
>or FUFOR and that bundle (rumored to be 10 plus K)of cash was
>passed to Bruce Maccabee to taint the results of the
>investigation in favor of Ed Walters. I said "allegedly" because
>somebody recently claimed that words had been put in Vickie
>Lyons' mouth. In essence the allegation was that Ed Walters
>channeled/funneled cash through MUFON to Bruce.

>Keep in mind that Rex/Vickie and others telling the story appear
>to come from the point of view of believing that Ed Walters
>hoaxed the GB UFO, while MUFON and Bruce Maccabee concluded
>entirely differently based upon their investigation.

>Originally the other named UFO organization in the 'BG money
>funnel allegations' was FUFOR, however as I recall, Richard Hall
>wrote an e-mail to this List that demolished that money theory,
>based upon his working with FUFOR. Jerry then concluded that
>it was and had to be MUFON for various reasons. However, he was
>not able to provide any proof at this point - no copies of tax
>returns showing a large donation, not to mention any canceled
>checks from Ed showing the large donation or anything else.
>Apparently the basis for this was memory mining of Rex and
>Rex's belief that it happened and that MUFON had to know.

>I e-mailed some principles and asked questions and here is the
>bottom line on this issue:

>MUFON has no receipts of funds (such as the alleged huge
>donation) paid to MUFON from Ed Walters. Apparently Ed Walters
>did not pay or contribute to MUFON such rumored sums of money.
>Nothing shows up in the MUFON tax returns. Point here - if
>MUFON's annual income went up 20K, without a boost of
>membership, that figure would show up in the tax returns.

>Walt Andrus, who was director of MUFON then. When asked about a
>monetary donation from Ed Walters to MUFON and/or him
>personally, he emphatically said "NO!"

>The MUFON records show some small dollar item in 1988 for a
>water analysis, no expenditure in 1989, and another small dollar
>item in 1990 for a site survey. The small dollar totaled less
>then 250.00. They were described as correct and legitimate
>expenses, paid from MUFON funds, as part of the investigation.

>MUFON apparently doesn't have any information as to the
>involvement (donations and/or expenditures) in Gulf Breeze by
>other organizations.

>So simply stated, there were no sums of money paid by Ed Walters
>to MUFON, then given to Bruce Maccabee to tilt the investigation
>in favor of Ed Walters.

>So the bottom line on the alleged and talked about "flow of Gulf
>Breeze money" is there was no flow. What we have here is another
>jewel encrusted helmet story.


April 5, 2004


Mr. Robert Gates,

That was a poor job of investigating the flow of the money, Mr.
Robert Gates. After 16 years of cover up, did you think Mr.
Walt Andrus would admit anything?

The cashier's check from Mr. Ed Walters had two signatures on
the back, Mr. Walt Andrus' and Dr. Bruce Maccabee's, this does
not touch the MUFON account.

Be sure and ask Mr. Walt Andrus this question, how can Rex &
Carol Salisberry be awarded the Best Investigators in the year
1990 and less than 6 months be fired? After Mr. Walt Andrus
gives you his answer, I will give you the real answer.

You said you wanted proof that the Gulf Breeze Sightings are a
hoax, perhaps you should call me and find out.


Jerry Black

1-877-731-8400

or

P.O. Box 125
Blanchester, Ohio 45107







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   Apr > Apr 11

                       A Review of The Meier Contacts

From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul>
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 14:56:35 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 12:13:19 -0400
Subject: A Review of The Meier Contacts



A Review of Michael Horn's DVD presentation "The Meier Contacts"
by Alfred Lehmberg
www.AlienView.net

I started this piece with no small trepidation... but then I
remembered that the following is dismissed entirely by Kal
(triple 'K') Korff with some... energy and vitality, so there is
a good chance that there might be something to it, after all.

I should let everyone know near the start of this review that
I'm not trying to irritate serious Ufologists Richard Hall or
Jerry Clark (...or a host of other sincere persons down firmly
on the side of the fence they feel they _should_ be down on...
and comfortable there...). These gentlemen, in particular, have
recently shown me some kindness and collegiality, and I'm loath
to disappoint them in a casual way. I apologize in advance
though I'm sure everyone understands I just have some questions
about something (and observations regarding same) here... and a
few... well chosen... rational and constructive words from
learned readers should put me aright, straight away! [g]. I'm
not an ideologue; I don't "have to" believe, I just can. Above
all else, I want the _real_ deal.

I've been hearing things about an individual of late, an
individual, well known in our community, who has had his facts
dragged back and forth over the credulity line so hard, so
often, and for so long, now, that even the _metaphor_ has become
hopelessly smudged, indeterminate and indistinct. Lately,
another gentleman has stepped forward in an apparent bona fide
attempt to clarify that line once more. That man is Michael
Horn. The line to be *clarified* is the, decidedly interesting,
Billy Meier. The review to be expressed concerns Michael Horn's
DVD presentation on the "state of the art" that is one Eduard
Albert Meier.

The decidedly unlikely Meier arouses, still (after 40 years!),
equal passions on both sides of the ufological fence, and _few_
ufological occurrences have been so diligently and passionately
investigated, attacked, and passionately debunker-ized as the
indefatigable saga of this aging Swiss farmer. After all the
sturm and drang, the passionate pleas, and furious
invalidations... there remains Billy Meier, grinning happily
like a seemingly unwhackable whack-a-mole... from a surprisingly
unassailable hole. What provokes the continued belief in this
very usual and un-presupposing gentleman?

I can't, shouldn't, and won't (shan't!) suggest any verity for
Billy Meier -- a benign separatist (?) who lives on a commune
(?) amongst like-minded persons (?), a person heartily denounced
by critics exponentially less canted and more acceptable than
"Triple'K'" (?), a person repudiated by a close family member as
a total charlatan (?), a person offering the most inexplicable
testimony and even prophesy (?).

Burned and shy... (a pox on culpable liars of any stripe for
encouraging same!), one becomes reluctant to put their full
weight on the next stone across the paranormal pond. I can't
qualify Billy Meier, but I can; however, retain the capacity to
be intrigued by recent claims in his decades old case!

Michael Horn, one of us yet to discredit himself it appears,
goes a little further out on that limb than I can, presently. He
identifies himself as Billy Meier's media rep in the United
States, and he's making some startling claims regarding Meier
that seem to have some support, are not conclusively refuted by
the garden-variety skepti-bunky, and are provoking dodgy,
inconsistent, and fallacious (...and so, therefore,
suspicious...) behavior from same!

His claims, as rationally (and logically) detailed in his (not
_too_ pricey...) DVD ("The Meier Contacts"), feature highly
specific predictions and prophesies made decades earlier in
extant works and books... subsequently revealed recently in
mainstream science news?! They include detailed photos and films
that have not been duplicated or otherwise conclusively shown to
be fakes?! They feature pieces of metal purported to be
irreproducible and compellingly alien?! They include clear sound
recordings made of a *beam ship* close by... equally
irreproducible, with alien intimating and peculiar harmonic
properties?! Put this together with the documentation of the
double digit attempts on Meier's life, along with a consistent
and well documented journal of ongoing alien contact, and what
do you have?

Some would argue a continence of ufological buffoonery and the
degradation of same! Others would argue that the preceding could
be citations of verity. Still others would swear by it! The
larger remainder are distractedly aware... or unaware because of
the aggregate distraction.

I only want non-canted answers to a few questions: What is the
verity of the evidence? Are the predictions Mr. Horn outlines
with regard to "ozone depletion" and the asteroid Toutitis
(among _significant_ others) legitimate and bona fide? Are the
photos, video, and film footage vetted and genuine? Is the
aforementioned sound recording significantly indicative of a
sound that could not be easily fabricated as examined by
competent and unbiased aural authority? Does a similar condition
exist for the bit of strange metal mentioned; does it withstand
the scrutiny of an unbiased metallurgist? Is there credible
evidence that the attempts on Meier's life number in the high
teens?

Michael Horn has indicated, in his DVD presentation and on the
radio, that all the aforementioned evidentiary bits conclusively
pass these un-conflicted examinations and appear to provide
convincing evidence that Billy Meier is the genuine article.
What is the rebuttal of the opponents to Mr. Horn, beyond the
reflexive and therefore discountable conclusions based only on
citations from the work of the pecu-liar triple"K"?

If there are problems with the vetting of the evidence, then
there are problems with the vetting (!), but I am unimpressed
with proclamations, irritated by innuendo, and righteously
angered by baseless and reflexive acrimony! Moreover, treat _me_
like a rube or dismiss me as a mere believer regarding this
query at your _peril_... Get testy, terse, or disrespectful with
me on this, and I'll eat your literary face! I won't be taking
any crap. I insist upon reflection over reflex.

I am 'everyman', sir, madam, and entities lurking! I pay taxes,
try to live an ethical life, and continue an ongoing education
regarding what chews on _my_ ass, and on the derri=E8res of my
brother and sister Human Beings. I want some quality answers,
some better freaking _questions_, and something more out of life
than sacrificing our sons and daughters, generation after
generation, to the whims of a pompous and illegitimate *elite*
while... living a contrived life of the planned obsolescent in
their decaying land of emptying promise...

That being said, I'd like to talk about the real problem of a
"Billy Meier", which Michael Horn understands very well and laid
out in almost too calm a manner in his DVD presentation --
 stealthily almost (...and would, sensibly, given that the
aggregate idea is _that_ ultimately tumultuous!). There's no
cult, there's no cult of personality, there's no institutional
eschatology of Raelean-like cultish doctrine as detractors have
campaigned. There is only a very unlikely guy, singled out (of
billions, presumably and inexplicably enough!) for an alien
interaction... not so important for the ships that they fly or
the actuality of themselves... but the _message_ that they might
have!

The vast majority needing to hear a message of this type will be
reluctant to hear it, at all, for an obvious reason (...and the
reason for Horn's stealth). The *message*, if true (and I think
it is for reasons I'll get into in a moment), would quite
literally turn our contrived, arbitrary, and unbalanced society
on its well deserving ear! There's no pretty way to put it.
Everything would change, respected reader... every _thing_! I'm
very confident that it is change for the better, but
tumultuously and disconcertingly *interesting* (albeit
needlessly), nonetheless...

For example:

Religion, as it's presently practiced, would be abandoned out of
hand like the individual was leaving a sinking ship of fear,
hatred, and disease. Money, hoarded and saved or purloined,
would be rendered moot and meaningless. *Power* would be to the
individual. *Property* would be newly defined, *privilege* would
have no justification, and *position* would be rendered impotent
and invalid. A new individual Autonomy and self-sufficiency
would be the rule, and we'd all have to respect our planet as an
*appreciative* thing, instead of a thing to thoughtlessly and
irresponsibly consume. We'd have to respect what we EAT, ladies
and gentlemen (Hamburgers and fries soaked in HVO and trans-fat
are not respectful to the cattle and over-eutrophied [and
environment destroying] potatoes, just as they are not
respectful to us, individually and physically, on any level
you'd care to name. We'd have to be a lot more aware who *pays*
so we can *play*! We would have to substantially reduce our
numbers from the catastrophe-begging overpopulation that we
endure... right at the perilous edge of its tenuous capacity!

The reason I think the over-all message, as relayed in Horn's
DVD rings true (has an underlying sense of solid rationality for
me personally) is because it so closely parallels a personal
philosophy I've laid out for myself in 55 plus years of watching
the world work, what's right, what's fair and balanced... and
comparing it with the antithesis of those things as I try to
really see them... from an alien's point of view. The AlienView.
A short piece (mostly prose) on that personal philosophy is
found at http://www.alienview.net/avexp.html .

It's what I allude to when I wrote in the last verse of a
recently posted piece of poetic explication: "Fill Your
Bucket..."

"The future that's portended will be seen and not pretended, but
the satisfactions gained will awe inspire! We will live beyond
pretensions, and ignore old class distinctions as we build on
firmer ground than what's now known to be conspired! We will
build upon new ethics in a wealth of new _eclectics_ that we
didn't know abundant... in our fog... and we'll find that our
behavior's more inclusive -- it's our SAVIOR, while elitists see
their error in the past, and all along! C'mon up and fill your
bucket with the facts you haven't chewed yet, and don't worry
that it tastes a _lot_ like crow -- it may taste a little worse
before you finish what needs chewing... but then tasting, far,
far grander than you know!"

Correcting our own mistakes is never easy, but putting off the
consequences of ongoing bad behavior is like putting off a trip
to the dentist's office, as I have written before. It's an
ongoing pain one can even endure to a point... given enough
*distraction*, but the outcome, to gallop this metaphor, is
inadequate chewing, resulting in badly digested food, poorer
aggregate health, and an eventual dental emergency precluding
being able to eat, at all! This is what Billy Meier would
transmit to his brother and sister humans, and it's good
information and rational advice (it would be my own), apart from
flying saucers, multiracial human aliens from the Pleiades, and
new definitions of time and space... which all the principals
admit are incidental and subordinate to that communication
(message), anyway.

If Billy Meier is a hoax and a fraud it is unfortunate that an
efficacious, self-revealing, and responsible message has to be
trussed-up into such a bad wrapper. But if Meier is not a fraud,
as Michael Horn reports in his DVD presentation, and there is
verity in the evidence of his claims? Then Meier's message has
value and gravitas that it couldn't have before... everything we
know is wrong (a broad brush but accurate enough to be
descriptive), and significant, heartfelt, and self-identifying
cultural imperatives must be discarded and abandoned if we are
to step out of present pretentious paradigms into a multi-verse
ever bigger than we ever thought it could be... and growing all
the time!

Qualified, Meier means change, reader. Discomfiting change.
Inconvenient change. Tumultuous change brought about
(predictably) by those most reluctant _to_ change. But change
regardless. Easy or hard it's our choice. One need only look
around at what reflexive and unthinking nationalism, rigid
religious fundamentalism, material disrespect to self, others
and the environment... and programmed ignorance... have _ever_
done (and now do!) for us on this planet... or we'd _already_
embrace the stars! Change, in this context, is a good thing, and
listening to Michael Horn discuss it reasonably on his DVD,
isn't bad, either.

Find further info on Mr. Horn's DVD at: http://www.theyfly.com/

Read on!

alienview.nul
www.AlienView.net








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   Apr > Apr 11

                Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers -

From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman.nul>
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 10:54:43 -0700
Fwd Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 12:15:20 -0400
Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers -


>From: Philip Mantle <suemantle.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers
>Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 11:50:21 +0100

>To answer some of the questions recently posted on the list
>concerning the alien autopsy film. First, I have viewed the
>other autopsy sequence and it has never been shown in public. It
>does show the complete creature with no bodily injuries. It is
>dissected but first an instrument is inserted into the creatures
>'vaginal area' and something is removed.

Philip,

So if the footage is a hoax, there was the need to fake two
creatures. Why, when one would do?

>The tent footage is 100% fake. This is not based on third hand
>testimony but by those who acted in it and who filmed it. This
>was uncovered by myself and my colleague Tim Matthews. We in
>turn tipped of the Sunday Mail newspaper who ran a feature. I
>published an article on this recently in the now defunct UFO
>MAGAZINE in the UK.

Good work on your part, but this had absolutely nothing to do
with Ray or any effort on his part to create this hoax. Is that
correct?

>The remaining 2 autopsy films and debris film remain open to
>debate as far as their authenticity is concerned. There is
>'evidence' to support both sides of the argument.

While I agree with much of your research, I haven't found any
"evidence" that the AA is a fraud. Could you list what you
consider the negative evidence and by evidence, I mean evidence,
not someone's silly conjecture or "might be" or "could be". The
basic story is quite simple: Ray bought twenty-two rolls of
footage from the cameraman, and had it transferred to video
format and then sold it to Fox TV and to us. It's the content of
this film that makes it controversial, not the circumstances of
its purchase.

>I have here an almost completed manuscript that covers every
>aspect of the alien autopsy story.It tells the story from the
>beginning, who said what, who saw what. It studies the film from
>every angle. There is one chapter from film/movie experts,
>another chapter from FX artists, another from the medical
>profession, and on it goes.

But nothing about the cameraman's crash site. And nothing about
the cameraman's drawing. Why not?

>The conclusion, such that it is, looks at a number of
>possibilities. The film is authentic (alien),

Yes, but not necessarily alien; perhaps an ancient being? See:

http://www.smithsonianmag.si.edu/smithsonian/issues96/oct96/jordan.html

>it is authentic
>but it is a military propaganda film of some kind,

This begs the question. If it were a military piece, then
how did they produce such a convincing fraud?

>it is a fake
>purely made for money,

This doesn't make any sense. As Dennis Murphy has pointed out,
it would require more money to made the debris, alone, than
anyone could ever make from the selling the footage.

>or it depicts some poor unfortunate human
>with a variety of genetic defects.

But we'd need two of these unfortunate creatures,and if they are
human, where are their secondary sexual features, or their
navel, or their teeth, or rectum.

>In the end you view all of
>the evidence pro and con first, then decide for yourself. The
>only problem is that I don't have a publisher. ANY TAKERS ?
>It but is fully illustrated and is the most complete book on this
>damn film ever written.

It probably is, but it doesn't have a chapter on the cameraman's
crash site. Once that's in place, you'll have no problems
selling your book. I'll give you all the information I have,
including the XRD, free of any charge or complications. You or
somebody you trust should visit Socorro and take me up on my
offer.

>We even have one chapter that tells the whole tent footage hoax
>saga, another that interviews several people who claim to have
>seen the film many years prior to Santilli's ownership, and
>there is even a chapter on abductees who claim to have
>encountered the same six-digit creature.

Including Betty Hill, I hope. She told me that these were the
creatures who abducted her.

>I do believe that Bob Kiviat is back in the producers chair and
>I may be helping him, but know one has more information on what
>sill is THE MOST CONTROVERSIAL FILM IN THE ENTIRE
>HISTORY OF UFO RESEARCH. Of that I am 100% sure.

It's the most controversial and important piece of UFO evidence,
not just film. But once the crash site is examined thoroughly,
everything will fall into place.


Ed







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   Apr > Apr 11

                     Re: Burt Rutan's Rocket - Balaskas

From: Nick Balaskas <nikolaos.nul>
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 16:25:35 -0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 12:17:36 -0400
Subject: Re: Burt Rutan's Rocket - Balaskas


>From: Mike Woods <mike.woods.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 22:49:55 -0400
>Subject: Re: Burt Rutan's Rocket

>>From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 06:21:48 -0700
>>Subject: Burt Rutan's Rocket

>>I bet you Rutan gets the X-prize. FAA willing of course.

>>http://apnews.myway.com/article/20040407/D81Q8VQ00.html

>>GT McCoy

>>Health and age not withstanding, I'd love to fly that thing.

>Hey GT,

>If we base it on track record, Rutan has to be favorite. Hope
>you don't mind if I pull for the Canadian effort... the DaVinci
>Group has a shot at it too... using a balloon primary lifter to
>take its rocket up to launching altitude. We have to pray Ottawa
>stays the hell out of it, though. Those idiots would probably
>see it as belittling extraterrestrials and halt for being
>intolerant. <sigh>

Hi Guys!

Rutan may very well win the X-prize but it will be with another
effort from the Great White North, the Canadian Arrow, that I
believe will be noted by history as starting the multi-billion
dollar passenger/commercial space business in the second century
of manned powered flight where anyone can afford to fly into
space anytime and from anywhere they want.

The Rutan team is on record that once they win the $10,000,000
prize they are not interested in flying any others into space in
their rocket for any price. Their effort is little more than a
publicity stunt.

As for the DaVinci team, rockets launched from balloons are very
involved affairs and since it takes much time for these balloons
to reach their desired altitudes and drift where the winds take
them, futures balloon launches are not likely to be approved for
frequent access into space since they will disrupt air traffic
over a wide region for hours and thus be too costly for
everyone.

The Canadian Arrow project is nearly everyone's second choice to
win the X-prize and is the safest effort that is based on proven
technology - the German V-2 rocket of which thousands were built
and successfully launched with their one ton warheads. If WWII
lasted a little longer, an intercontinental ballistic version of
these V-2 rockets were to bombard New York City and other North
American targets. It is interesting to note that not long after
9-11, New Yorkers got to see one of these Canadian built V-2
rockets - the Canadian Arrow - from up close which surprised,
amazed and impressed them.

http://www.canadianarrow.com/NYC.htm

Anyone with a few hours to spare who is interested in taking a
quick day trip to Hong Kong or Sydney or Cape Town or would like
a one week vacation in orbit or want to fly around the Moon to
take pictures of your property there (that's another interesting
story by another Canadian company), thanks to future plans by
the same Canadian Arrow team, you will not have long to wait.

Happy Easter to everyone!


Nick Balaskas








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   Apr > Apr 11

               Re: Ripped-Off Map Image By German Site - Page

From: Trevor Page <trevor.nul>
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 16:46:59 -0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 12:22:57 -0400
Subject: Re: Ripped-Off Map Image By German Site - Page


>From: Joachim Koch <lists.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 15:37:56 +0100
>Subject: Re: Ripped-Off Map Image By German Site

>>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates -Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 01:24:25 -0700
>>Subject: Ripped-Off Map Image By German Site

>>Hello all:

>>Can somebody who reads German help me here?

>>Looking thru the logs for my website, I found this web
>>page deep-linking one of my UFO maps. There is _no_
>>indication that they give credit to the source (my work
>and site), nor a link back.

>>Please check this out whether you can read the text or
>>not:

>>http://www.faktinfo.de/forum/messages/16818.htm

>>I can't read German. I don't know if they are giving
>>credit or taking credit (20 years work by the way) or
>>something else entirely.

>Dear Larry,

>I can read German! :-)I will contact the man who is known to me.
>He surely will contact you because I couldn't find what you mean
>because the web address you provided gives me only a blank page.


Here's the Google cache for the website in question:

http://www.google.ca/search?q=cache:w4yyqlBXha4J:www.faktinfo.de/forum/ messages
/16818.htm+&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

You're welcome :)

Trev







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   Apr > Apr 11

              Re: Why I Support Alien Abduction Study - Rimmer

From: John Rimmer <jrimmer.nul>
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 22:08:15 +0100
Fwd Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 12:24:58 -0400
Subject: Re: Why I Support Alien Abduction Study - Rimmer


>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 11:13:05 -0500
>Subject: Re: Why I Support Alien Abduction Study

>>From: John Rimmer <jrimmer.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 22:59:24 +0100
>>Subject: Re: Why I Support Alien Abduction Study

>>>From: Greg Sandow <greg.nul>
>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 21:02:29 -0400
>>>Subject: Re: Why I Support Alien Abduction Study

>>>>From: John Harney <magonia.nul>
>>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>>Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 21:24:53 +0100
>>>>Subject: Re: Why I Support Alien Abduction Study

>Patient and gentle Listfolk:

Sigh, Jerry

>>>Now some of those
>>>people (I've seen this first hand, too) think he's a little
>>>strange. He had all the attention anyone could want, personally
>>>and professionally. He risked it all for UFOs.

>>How many people have seen Hopkins' paintings in a gallery as
>>compared to the numbers who have read one of his abduction
>>books?

>>>David Jacobs was and (as far as I know; haven't talked to him in
>>>a year or so) an immensely popular professor at Temple
>>>University. No shortage of professional attention there, and no
>>>reason he couldn't have advanced himself as a scholar in his
>>>field, which is American history. He's certainly smart enough,
>>>and wonderfully well informed. But instead he studied
>>>abductions, and published abduction books and articles instead
>>>of scholarly papers in history journals. He has tenure at
>>>Temple, but never was promoted to the highest rank of full
>>>professor, and probably never will be. Again you have a man who
>>>didn't lack for attention or success, and damaged his career to
>>>work on abductions.

>>How many people have attended Jacob's [sic] lectures or read his
>>papers on American history as compared to the numbers who have
>>read his abduction books?

>>>John Mack is a successful psychiatrist, a professor at Harvard
>>>Medical School, and also the winner of a Pulitzer Prize - one of
>>>the highest honors in America - for a book about T.E. Lawrence.
>>>He published a book about abductions, and almost lost his
>>>position at Harvard. The attention he got from working on
>>>abductions was about the last thing anyone in his position ever
>>>wanted. He had plenty of attention for all his distinguished
>>>work before that.

>>How many people have read his book on T E Lawrence as compared
>>to the numbers who have read his abduction books?
>
>>>So, you see... the attention theory won't quite work in these
>>>four cases.

>>Well I think it does actually, as it's clear - "obvious" even -
>> that these three people have attained a far higher public
>>profile from their abduction writing than they would ever have
>>done from their artistic or academic work. I'm not saying that
>>this is the sole reason for their abduction work, but don't try
>>to pretend that they would have had as much public attention as
>>they have had if they'd stuck to their day- jobs.

>I appreciate John Rimmer's effort to provide us with an
>especially telling example of pelicanist logic (yes, yes, I
>know, an oxymoron; I use the phrase simply for the sake of
>discussion). I hope that all will keep this instance in mind
>when, as is their stock in trade, John and others in his psychic
>friends network try to read the minds and motives of other
>ufologists and UFO witnesses.

>It is wise to remember that in the realm of so-called
>psychosocial ufology, ridicule as a factor in the psychological
>and social aspects of the UFO controversy has received virtually
>no attention - as why should it, since "psychosocial" is merely,
>in that school's hands, a pompous title for what more forthright
>practitioners call debunking? Or, for that matter, since the so-
>called psychosocial ufologists - at least the ones who are
>active on this List and who fill the pages of Magonia -- are
>themselves so obsessively engaged in their own employment of
>ridicule?

I have previously suggested that Jerry might care to write an
article for Magonia discussing the role of ridicule in ufology,
but he is a busy man and has many other things to do.

>Ridicule's large role in keeping witnesses silent and
>discouraging scientists, academics, and other culturally
>credentialed individuals from pursuing UFO study (and bringing
>derision and professional retaliation on those who do, as Greg
>Sandow points out) has even been denied both explicitly and, as
>in Rimmer's weird outburst, implicitly.

I have never denied that ridicule plays a part in both the
reporting and researching of the UFO phenomonon. I have however
suggested that - for witnesses at least - it is not as crippling
a factor as Jerry suggests. Certainl there seems to be no
shortage of people willing to come forward and describe their
UFO experiences.

> It's sadly obvious - a
>good pelicanist adjective - that Rimmer knows neither the
>personalities Greg mentions nor the bitter ordeals they have
>undergone as public champions of the notion that abductions may
>indeed be worth investigating as evidence of an unearthly
>presence.

The "bitter ordeals" of these personalities have been well
chronicled on this list, and elsewhere. They do not seem to have
resulted in any serious hardship to the individuals'
circumstances. After all, Greg's posting above tells us that
David Jacobs is still an "immensely  popular professor at Temple
University" and John Mack is "a successful psychiatrist, a
professor at Harvard Medical School". I don't know if Hopkins is
still active as a painter, but that decision is up to him and
him alone. Since when was being considered "a little strange" of
and great disadvantage to an artist?

>Apparently, on the basis of no evidence whatever and against
>every indication to the contary, we are to believe that these
>respected professionals did serious damage to their accomplished
>primary careers out of a narcissistic desire to become pop
>stars,

The fact that these people are all still active in their primary
careers suggests that the 'damage' was not fatal. If people
decide to devote a large part of their time and effort to other
interests, rather than follow an obsessive career goal, it is
hardly surprising that they may not be promoted to the highest
rank. As Greg Sandow says above, Jacobs has "studied abductions,
and published abduction books and articles instead of scholarly
papers in history journals". Well, yes, but that was his
decision. It is clearly my interest in ufology that has
prevented me from fulfilling my career goal of becoming Chief
Executive of the British Library.

>to grab all the cash and acclaim that come to those once-
>respected persons who publicly advocate highly unorthodox,
>deeply against-the- grain ideas which in mainstream media will
>ensure they are treated as crackpots. But then, since when does
>a pelicanist need something so inconsequential as evidence to
>smear somebody? In any event, who cares about staying in the
>high regard of employers, colleagues, students, and professional
>societies when one can be a celebrity at a MUFON convention?

Jerry, you know very well that I'm not saying that. I don't know
what the motivations of Hopkins, Jacobs, et al are. I'm simply
pointing out that it is disingenuous (one of your favourite
words) for Greg Sandow to imply that they were just as
celebrated in their 'professional' capacities as they are as
abductionists.

And isn't it also more than a little disingenuous to suggest
that the only public attention (and, I dare say, financial
reward, though I do not think, in at least some cases, that is
particularly significant) they have received is appearing at
MUFON conventions?

>For some time I have labored to take the Johns seriously,
>knowing - as they, it is now clear, do not - that perfectly
>honorable, rational individuals often come to different
>conclusions about difficult, contentious matters. I am afraid I
>am now going to abandon the effort.

You haven't really tried. There are many people in the UFO world
that I disagree with greatly, but an happy to accept that their
motivations are honourable.

>What we have above is the intellectual capacity and insight of a
>buffoon. It serves only to underscore the point that I made to
>the other John: that if they are now reduced to arguments such
>as these, perhaps it is long past time that they retire from
>their labors and our midst. Maybe it's time for the rest of us
>to stop paying attention to them, since it is attention, one
>finally infers, that they are so desperate to attract to
>themselves and thus so eager to project as the motivation of
>others.

As Jerry Clark seems constitutionally incapable of *not*
replying to anything that John Harney and I write, it ill
becomes him to warn others against responding to us.

--
John Rimmer
Magonia Magazine
www.magonia.demon.co.uk/arc/00/newmag.htm








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   Apr > Apr 11

              Re: Why I Support Alien Abduction Study - Rimmer

From: John Rimmer <jrimmer.nul>
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 22:08:03 +0100
Fwd Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 12:27:03 -0400
Subject: Re: Why I Support Alien Abduction Study - Rimmer


>From: Greg Sandow <greg.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 11:44:53 -0400
>Subject: Re: Why I Support Alien Abduction Study

>>From: John Rimmer <jrimmer.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 22:59:24 +0100
>>Subject: Re: Why I Support Alien Abduction Study

>This post from John Rimmer is truly appalling. I'll reply to one
>of his questions quickly, and then get on to the main point,
>which is what it's like to be "famous" - to have a public life,
>to get attention from colleagues and the public at large.
>Rimmer, I'd guess, doesn't have a public life, and doesn't know
>many people (if any at all) who do. Certainly he has no idea
>what it's like to have one. I can say that with complete
>certainly, because I do have one, and have spent time with
>people who are quite famous.

>Rimmer or others may think - in what I'm going to write - that
>I'm bragging, or dropping names, but that's not the case. I'm
>just trying to acquaint poor John with a reality he seems not to
>know about. What a wonderful pastime, to sit at home, drawing
>conclusions about things (and people) you know nothing about! My
>professional life would be a lot easier if I could do that, but
>unfortunately, in my day jobs, I'm expected to actually know
>what I'm talking about. Not Rimmer, clearly.
>And now for topic A.

>>>Now some of those
>>>people (I've seen this first hand, too) think he's a little strange. He
>>>had all the attention anyone could want, personally and professionally.
>>>He risked it all for UFOs.

>>How many people have seen Hopkins' paintings in a gallery as
>>compared to the numbers who have read one of his abduction books?

><snip>

>>How many people have attended Jacob's lectures or read his
>>papers on American history as compared to the numbers who
>>have read his abduction books?

><snip>

>>How many people have read [John Mack's] book on T E Lawrence as
>>compared to the numbers who have read his abduction books?

>>>So, you see... the attention theory won't quite work in these four
>>>cases.

>>Well I think it does actually, as it's clear - "obvious" even
>>- that these three people have attained a far higher public
>>profile from their abduction writing than they would ever
>>have done from their artistic or academic work. I'm not
>>saying that this is the sole reason for their abduction work,
>>but don't try to pretend that they would have had as much
>>public attention as they have had if they'd stuck to their day-jobs.

I've cut Greg Sandow's long and interesting reply, which is well
worth careful reading, because, quite honestly, there's little
in it that I would disgree with. I have not met the glistening
galaxy of musical talent that he has, and am unlikely ever to -
 although I would very much like to talk to Philip Glass about
"100 Airplanes on the Roof".

However, I do hope he credits me with sufficient intelligence to
understand his point that there are many different forms of fame
and attention, and they all have their different pains and
pleasures. I have no way of knowing in what way Budd Hopkins
reacts to a crowd at a exhibition launch or a crowd at a MUFON
meeting; how David Jacobs reacts to questioners at a history
seminar or on a TV show, or which gives either of them the
greatest satisfaction.

In his original post Greg seemd to be suggesting that Hopkins,
Mack and Jacobs got enough attention and praise from their
professional positions, not to be concerned about getting more
from their extracurricular activities. I do not see how he can
know this.

I suggest that if any of them did find the attention oppressive,
they have chosen a strange way to conduct their research. They
have certainly done little to back out of the limelight. There
are plenty of other researchers who find a lower profile more
conducive to serious work.

I am at least glad that Greg though my comments worthy of a
thoughtful reply, and did not find it necessary to call me a
bufoon, as another respondent has done.

--
John Rimmer
Magonia Magazine
www.magonia.demon.co.uk/arc/00/newmag.htm








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   Apr > Apr 11

                Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers -

From: John Scheldroup <jschel.nul>
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 16:28:30 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 12:34:31 -0400
Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers -


>From: Philip Mantle <suemantle.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers
>Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 11:50:21 +0100

>To answer some of the questions recently posted on the list
>concerning the alien autopsy film. First, I have viewed the
>other autopsy sequence and it has never been shown in public. It
>does show the complete creature with no bodily injuries. It is
>dissected but first an instrument is inserted into the creatures
>'vaginal area' and something is removed.

>The tent footage is 100% fake. This is not based on third hand
>testimony but by those who acted in it and who filmed it. This
>was uncovered by myself and my colleague Tim Matthews. We in
>turn tipped of the Sunday Mail newspaper who ran a feature. I
>published an article on this recently in the now defunct UFO
>MAGAZINE in the UK.

>The remaining 2 autopsy films and debris film remain open to
>debate as far as their authenticity is concerned. There is
>'evidence' to support both sides of the argument.

>I have here an almost completed manuscript that covers every
>aspect of the alien autopsy story.It tells the story from the
>beginning, who said what, who saw what. It studies the film from
>every angle. There is one chapter from film/movie experts,
>another chapter from FX artists, another from the medical
>profession, and on it goes.

>The conclusion, such that it is, looks at a number of
>possibilities. The film is authentic (alien), it is authentic
>but it is a military propaganda film of some kind, it is a fake
>purely made for money, or it depicts some poor unfortunate human
>with a variety of genetic defects. In the end you view all of
>the evidence pro and con first, then decide for yourself. The
>only problem is that I don't have a publisher. ANY TAKERS ?  It
>is fully illustrated and is the most complete book on this damn
>film ever written.

>We even have one chapter that tells the whole tent footage hoax
>saga, another that interviews several people who claim to have
>seen the film many years prior to Santilli's ownership, and
>there is even a chapter on abductees who claim to have
>encountered the same six-digit creature.

>I do believe that Bob Kiviat is back in the producers chair and
>I may be helping him, but know one has more information on what
>sill is THE MOST CONTROVERSIAL FILM IN THE ENTIRE HISTORY OF UFO
>RESEARCH. Of that I am 100% sure.

>If you would like to view more information please do take a look
>at the alien autopsy archive section of our web site at:

>www.beyondroswell.com

Mr. Philip Mantle,

I could be mistaken about some of the things  I've noticed
regarding images listed at beyondroswell.com afterall the
image I understand was enhanced, so who knows if this is right
or not, but here it goes. Thanks for your time.

Regards to your following,

http://www.beyondroswell.com/roswell/Barry%20Burton%20Alien%20Autopsy%20Image%20
Enhancement.htm

http://www.beyondroswell.com/roswell/New%20Autopsy%20Photos%20Under%20Enhamcment
s/Symbols2.jpg

http://tinyurl.com/2ves6

Look carefully in the upperleft corner of the object. To an
untrained eye you might see the reflecting edge of object, but
what I see is something else.

You can just make them out, they are the vertical spaced jagged
lines evenly spaced along the edge of the object. We can see
some thickness the object also..  I know these lines lines to be
caused from a vertical bandsaw cut, probably by the fabricator
that cut the metal.

Those vertical line patterns are caused from the pitch (spacing
of blade tooth) on the saw blade and high surface speeds of the
blade itself, the fabricator probably wants to cut fast this
causing a jagged edge or two.

A bad edge, that in other words, if you could look at it under a
magnifier you would notice the peaks and valleys that follow the
edge.

Maybe the aliens just don't grind part edges on thin walls?

As for the symbols on the object. Could be interpreted by
anybody to mean many things,.. when I look at the first symbol
it appears to be a musical half-note, the next one is it similar
to staff lines or a math set.

Beyond the meaning of symbols themselves what I can say to some
degree of certainty is that both symbols do share something in
common, they were both formed with a punch and an hammer.

The first symbol will clearly show this as the "|" is punched
first and the bottom "O" is punched last to form the squirlly
"d". To see how this works we can see how a dark spot is formed
on the "|", which is right where the metal begins to flow into
an upward pattern..This a cause and effect by the second punch.

A dark impressions forms in the conjoined area of "O" into "|"
which has formed high spots on the metal from being forced
upwards into the flow of "|". When if this were the other way
around and you stamped the the bottom "O" first and "|" second
the same dark impression would be rising into the "O" and not
the "|".

The same thing again found on the second symbol, where the
single vertical line is punched first, we see that three
horizontal lines conjoin which are punched last. Again, the dark
impressions.. metal being forced to overlap metal to indicate
some two-step process.

Both of these examples also show that no single punch having two
symbols were ever used but rather it seems, a painstaking effort
to manually form each one. I can count six punches on two
symbols.


Regards,

John








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   Apr > Apr 11

                  Budd Hopkins' UFO Seminar - 04-17-04 NYC

From: The Intruders Foundation Ifinfo1.nul
Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 01:08:46 -0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 12:37:42 -0400
Subject: Budd Hopkins' UFO Seminar - 04-17-04 NYC



Intruders Foundation Seminar Series Announcement

Saturday, April 17, 2004
Kecksberg, the COMETA Report, and Other Research
Speaker: Leslie Kean

Leslie Kean is an investigative journalist whose articles have
appeared in numerous newspapers and magazines around the world
including The Boston Globe, Baltimore Sun, Atlanta-Journal
Constitution, Newark Star Ledger, The Nation magazine,
International Herald Tribune, Globe and Mail, the Sydney Morning
Herald, and the Journal of Scientific Exploration, among many
others. Kean is also a contributing producer and on-air host for
an investigative news program on KPFA Radio, a Pacifica station.

In May 2000, Kean published a breakthrough feature article for
the Boston Globe, syndicated through the New York Times wire
service, about the authoritative French study by the COMETA
group called "UFOs and Defense: What are we Prepared For?" In
2001, her story in the Providence Journal about pilot sightings
of unidentified aerial phenomena and possible aviation safety
concerns was widely syndicated. At the IF seminar, Kean will
talk about these stories and her experience as a journalist
covering this cont roversial subject.

In late 2002, Kean was commissioned by the SCI FI Channel to
prepare a research report titled "Science and the Failure to
Investigate Unidentified Aerial Phenomena." Her report was
released at a press conference in Washington DC, where she spoke
with John Podesta, President Clinton's former chief of staff,
who supports her current work with the Coalition for Freedom of
Information (CFi). As investigative Director of CFi, she is
spearheading a freedom of information initiative in cooperation
with a leading Washington law firm, focused on obtaining
government documents about the 1965 Kecksburg UFO incident. With
the support of the SCI FI Channel, she recently filed a lawsuit
against NASA for withholding information on the Kecksburg case.

Kean's work with CFi has been featured widely in national and
international print media and in a 2003 SCI FI Channel
documentary narrated by Byant Gumbel. She has also been featured
in a History Channel documentary and in the feature documentary
"Out of the Blue." She has been interviewed extensively about
her work on national radio and appeared as part of a panel on
CNN's Larry King Live. For more information go to:

http://www.freedomofinfo.org/

At the IF seminar, Kean will show video clips and slides on the
COMETA report, the Kecksburg UFO case and other aspects of her
work, including Podesta's speech at the last CFi press
conference, to be shown for the first time.

REGISTRATION & INFORMATION

The seminar will be held on April 17th at the meeting rooms of
A.R.E., on the tenth floor of 150 W. 28th Street, New York. The
price for the seminar is $30 for non-members and $20 for members
of IF, seniors and students. Reservations must be made by
telephone at 212-645-5278, and will be filled on a first come,
first served basis. Payment must be made in advance to secure
the reservation. Make checks payable to the Intruders
Foundation, P.O. Box 30233, New York, NY 10011. Only 50
reservations will be accepted for each seminar.

On-street parking is generally available in the neighborhood.
The seminar will begin at 7:30 PM and end at 10:00 PM. Doors
open at 7:00 PM. There will be a one half-hour intermission,
during which light complimentary refreshments will be served. A
book table will offer books, videotapes and other material for
sale to those interested. For additional information, call IF at
212-645-5278.

Hope to see you there!

----------

The Intruders Foundation Seminar Series is presented in the
interests of open-minded scientific learning and the free
exchange of research, ideas and theories. IF makes no specific
claims or endorsements regarding any materials, views, or
subject matter presented by our guests.

----------

Want to know more about Budd Hopkins and his nonprofit
scientific research organization, as well as past and future IF
events? Please visit our website:

Intruders Foundation Website:
http://www.intrudersfoundation.org/


----------









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   Apr > Apr 11

                         HBCC UFO Reports - 04-10-04

From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO <hbccufo.nul>
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 23:25:49 -0700
Fwd Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 12:40:37 -0400
Subject: HBCC UFO Reports - 04-10-04


Kuala Lumpur - Wilayah Persekutuan, Malaysia

Date: April 08, 2004
Time: 6:50 pm - 7:00 pm
Number of witnesses: 2
Number of objects: 1
Shape of objects: disc-shape

Full Description of event/sighting: I poked my head through my
window to invite my friend who lives upstairs to eat dinner with
me. Before going, we had a little chat. I looked up at him and
suddenly noticed a black object which was hovering close by. I
immediately saw it because I'm a bird-watcher, I thought it was
an eagle at first. Unfortunately I was shocked when I realized
it was not a bird. It is an aircraft and a weird one which I
never have witnessed before.

I saw that it is a black disc-shaped object, so the first thing
that came to my mind is that this is a UFO. I hoped that it was
actually a flattened balloon slowly dropping down, but it
wasn't. It floated at the same attitude going forward.

I realized that it is nothing I ever seen. I quickly told my
friend to look at it to see if he saw it or not, and whether he
knew what the heck it was. He looked back at me after he watched
for a while. I could see the same curious look on his face. He
thought it was the so-called UFO too. We looked carefully at it
as it slowly hovered, just like what helicopters does. I
estimated it to be about 100 meters from ground and about the
size of a car. As we are living on the 5th and 6th floor we
should have heard a sound coming from it, if it had of been a
helicopter at that altitude.

The disc flew in a very unique way, it flew like something
injured, because it sloped 45 degree to the left then right then
left again as it traveled along. If it was flown by humans, they
would easily be affected by nausea in such aircraft. I noticed a
red light flashing at the back of the craft. Since it is still
bright outside, I could barely tell whether it was glowing or
not, but I saw the atmosphere near it was a little lighter than
normal, maybe it is due to the contrast or maybe it is
shimmering. It disappeared in the distance.

We noticed that no one each from our hostel actually saw the
object. I'm still in shock and still try my best to understand
what it was I saw!

Thank you to the witness for the report.

-----


Saint-Laurent, Quebec

Date: April 10, 2004
Time: 11:00 p.m.

Number of witnesses: 2
Number of objects: 1

Shape of objects: Round, when lit, it looked oblong when all
lights were out

Full Description of event/sighting: I was typing on my computer,
when I looked out the window I saw a bright red light in the sky
approx. 10 cm in diameter, flying on a low horizon at a
distance of maybe a couple of blocks away from my place. It was
really bright. At first I thought I was seeing things, then I
called my father. As soon as my father came to see, the object
made a sharp right turn and then the light dimmed out.

Then maybe 5 minutes later I saw it again, a really bright red
circle. This time it seemed it like it was climbing. This time
my father did see it....and saw how quick it was gaining in
altitude without actually covering any horizontal distance. As
it went up in the sky the lights once again turned
off....bizarre, If it was a plane flying at night wouldn't it
have headlights on....I'm used to planes flying over me, being
close to the airport. But this was not the same......both my dad
and I decided to check it out further and we went outside to
look at it and we could see all the lights were off, but you
could still see that greyish oblong shaped object in the
sky....it seemed like it was going around in circles around our
neighborhood. I don't know what this was. I was hoping that
someone could shed some light on this.

Thank you to the witness for the report.

---


Truro, Nova Scotia

Date: April 11, 2004
Time: 12:39 a.m.

Number of witnesses: 1
Number of objects: 2
Shape of objects: lights/points of light/oval shaped faint lights

Full Description of event/sighting: I already reported this
sighting to local RCMP in Bible Hill, NS., but this was
fantastic to see.

I'm 24 and a 3rd year science student. At approx. 12:35 a.m. on
April 11, 2004, I was outside having a smoke break. I looked
straight up at the clear sky as I usually always do to star
gaze. Immediately I noticed two objects at a high altitude,
almost parallel, one lagging slightly behind the other traveling
in a northern direction. They were moving very fast and were
very faint, much less so than the stars and even less so than an
airplane. Nor were they blinking and they were much larger than
an airplane would have appeared at that height. the lagging
object sped up to reach the other and then, as if playing a
game, kris crossed a number of times as if playing chase, or a
game? This happened really quickly and then they faded out of
sight. This all occurred within a 1-1.30 minute time frame. I am
wondering if you could direct me to the proper people who have
access to radar files to verify this ? I have witnessed a
strange sighting before, a number of years back when I was a
teenager near Fredericton, NB. If it wasn't for that, I would
have been a little more alarmed than I am presently. It was cool
as hell actually! PLEASE HELP ME GET TO THE BOTTOM OF THIS
ONE!!!! These guys were high, and moving quick. There is no
frigging way that they were planes. And there was a total lack
of sound involved, even after they faded as would normally
happen with a plane. Thank you for your time.

Thank you to the witness for the report.


Brian Vike
Director HBCC UFO Research
Home - Phone 250 845 2189
email: hbccufo.nul
Website: http://www.hbccufo.com








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   Apr > Apr 11

              Bassett For President Of The United States! Yes!

From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul>
Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 11:05:21 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 12:46:31 -0400
Subject: Bassett For President Of The United States! Yes!



Hi folks

We have an opportunity to make a _real_ ufological difference in
a _real_ cheap way!

Go to this website:

http://www.americancandidate.com/candidate_homepage.php?id1

And give your support to Steve Bassett for *mock* President
of the United States! You've read about it already here at
UpDates.

He's running in a 'mock' election to be televised on Showtime TV
where millions of people all over the world could be watching
him address ufological issues, secrecy issues, and truth in
government issues... while the "real" election is going on at
the same time!

I think you can agree that this is an opportunity for a high
platform that just doesn't come around every-day for ufology...
This *reality* program _could_ be a huge hit, and UFOs could be
right at the center of it! Moreover - it _could_ have a
positive impact on the actual presidential race!

Steve Bassett has been around a while, is serious and focused,
and is well connected in the genre. Give your support now -
it's a great opportunity to get some positive attention on UFOs
and its related subjects. Think of it!


Thanks for your attention.

alienview.nul
www.AlienView.net








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   Apr > Apr 12

                Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers -

From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman.nul>
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 13:18:08 -0700
Fwd Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 16:23:37 -0400
Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers -


>From: Philip Mantle <suemantle.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers
>Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 11:50:21 +0100

>To answer some of the questions recently posted on the list
>concerning the alien autopsy film. First, I have viewed the
>other autopsy sequence and it has never been shown in public. It
>does show the complete creature with no bodily injuries. It is
>dissected but first an instrument is inserted into the creatures
>'vaginal area' and something is removed.


Philip,

So if the footage is a hoax, there was the need to fake two
creatures. Why, when one would do?

>The tent footage is 100% fake. This is not based on third hand
>testimony but by those who acted in it and who filmed it. This
>was uncovered by myself and my colleague Tim Matthews. We in
>turn tipped of the Sunday Mail newspaper who ran a feature. I
>published an article on this recently in the now defunct UFO
>MAGAZINE in the UK.

Good work on your part, but this had absolutely nothing to do
with Ray or any effort on his part to create this hoax: is that
correct?

>The remaining 2 autopsy films and debris film remain open to
>debate as far as their authenticity is concerned. There is
>'evidence' to support both sides of the argument.

While I agree with much of your research, I haven't found any
"evidence" that the AA is a fraud. Could you list what you
consider the negative evidence and by evidence, I mean evidence,
not someone's silly conjecture or "might be" or "could be". The
basic story is quite simple: Ray bought twenty-two rolls of
footage from the cameraman, and had it transferred to video
format and then sold it to Fox TV and to us. It's the content of
this film that makes it controversial, not the circumstances of
its purchase.

>I have here an almost completed manuscript that covers every
>aspect of the alien autopsy story.It tells the story from the
>beginning, who said what, who saw what. It studies the film from
>every angle. There is one chapter from film/movie experts,
>another chapter from FX artists, another from the medical
>profession, and on it goes.

But nothing about the cameraman's crash site. And nothing about
the cameraman's drawing. Why not?

>The conclusion, such that it is, looks at a number of
>possibilities. The film is authentic (alien),

Yes, but not necessarily alien; perhaps an ancient being?

http://www.smithsonianmag.si.edu/smithsonian/issues96/oct96/jordan.html

>it is authentic
>but it is a military propaganda film of some kind,

This begs the question. If it were a military piece, then how
did they produce such a convincing fraud?

>it is a fake
>purely made for money,

This doesn't make any sense. As Dennis Murphy has pointed out,
it would require more money to made the debris, alone, than
anyone could ever make from the selling the footage.

>or it depicts some poor unfortunate human
>with a variety of genetic defects.

But we'd need two of these unfortunate creatures,and if they are
human, where are their secondary sexual features, or their
navel, or their teeth, or rectum.

>In the end you view all of
>the evidence pro and con first, then decide for yourself. The
>only problem is that I don't have a publisher. ANY TAKERS ?
>It but is fully illustrated and is the most complete book on this
>damn film ever written.

It probably is, but it doesn't have a chapter on the cameraman's
crash site. Once that's in place, you'll have no problems
selling your book. I'll give you all the information I have,
including the XRD, free of any charge or complications. You or
somebody you trust should visit Socorro and take me up on my
offer.

>We even have one chapter that tells the whole tent footage hoax
>saga, another that interviews several people who claim to have
>seen the film many years prior to Santilli's ownership, and
>there is even a chapter on abductees who claim to have
>encountered the same six-digit creature.

Including Betty Hill, I hope. She told me that these were the
creatures who abducted her.

>I do believe that Bob Kiviat is back in the producers chair and
>I may be helping him, but know one has more information on what
>sill is THE MOST CONTROVERSIAL FILM IN THE ENTIRE
>HISTORY OF UFO RESEARCH. Of that I am 100% sure.

It's the most controversial and important piece of UFO evidence,
not just film. But once the crash site is examined thoroughly,
everything will fall into place.


Ed








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   Apr > Apr 12

                Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers -

From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman.nul>
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 13:20:53 -0700
Fwd Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 16:26:48 -0400
Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers -


>From: Maurizio Baiata <maurizio.baiata.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2004 18:11:07 +0200
>Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers

<snip>

>To answer Gildas, briefly, as to my direct involvement in
>viewing the "second autopsy":

>- Yes: this never seen publicly autopsy - was shown to Reg
>Presley and me by Ray Santilli in his office. The date was April
>25, 1995, around 2:00 p.m. No one else was present, but
>Santilli, Presley and me. We asked Santilli to see it twice.
>Reluctantly, he fulfilled our request.

>- Yes: there was a general view of the intact body. I thought,
>and still think, that the two bodies looked slightly different,
>besides the wounds. The type of incision, as you know, was
>different (vertical, not a "Y").

>- The video of the second autopsy, as far as I know, was never
>shown publicly, but to a very limited amount of people.

>- To be exact: 5 still pictures, taken from the second autopsy
>film, where published in an issue of Notiziario UFO, the
>monthly Italian UFO magazine, at the time directed by me. I'd
>received these stills in a video format (VHS) sent to me by Ray
>Santilli. I do have the VHS in my possession.

>BTW, I'm still at work on this frustrating subject. And, don't
>have a solution, yet.

Maurizio, EBK, List,

Thanks for this information. It is now clear that there were at
least two different video copies and at least two different
creatures. I'd like to add some other pertinant information.
Below you'll find testimony from Frank Salas, the technician who
transfered the raw footage to video format. This proves, once
and for all, that there was actual16mm film with images of the
creature and that this film was old and not in good shape, just
as Ray has indicated.

"Many so-called experts have argued against the films
authenticity stating that it was filmed on video and not 16mm
film as claimed. All the genuine film and photographic experts
that we have been in contact with disagree and are more than
convinced that there is enough evidence to suggest it was indeed
shot on 16mm. One man outside of Santilli's company who knows
this for sure is Mr. Frank Salas. The reason for this being that
Salas is the technician who transferred the original 16mm film
onto video at his place of work in London. We have 2 taped
interviews with Salas and he informed us that at the request of
Santilli's company he was sent the film and transferred it onto
video. It was transferred on to both VHS and Betacam. He told us
that some of the film was in pretty poor quality but other parts
of it were not too bad at all. Salas gave us detailed
information of how he transferred the 16mm film onto video
including the types of equipment he used etc. He was in no doubt
that it was indeed 16mm but he would not guess at its age as
this was not his area of expertise. Salas went on to state that
it was indeed the autopsy film he transferred and that he was
under no added pressure to keep this secret other than the
normal client confidentiality. In fact, Salas would only agree
to answer our questions after receiving a fax giving him
permission to do so by Ray Santilli himself. Santilli did this
at our request. As far as Salas was concerned, if this was a
hoax, it was a very, very good one, but he did not think it was.

So, for the first time we have someone outside of Santilli's
company who actually handled the 16mm film and saw the
autopsy images on it.

Philip Mantle

http://www.v-j-enterprises.com/aafilm/mantle.html"

Also this from Dennis Murphy, a metallurgist. He examined the
debris, in detail, for "hundreds of hours" and came to the
following conclusions:

"The "Santilli Footage" consists of four different films that
include the debris footage, the tent footage and the dissections
of two different entities. Every detail that is put in a hoax
film cost money and increases the risk of exposure as a fraud.
It would seem that if this film was a hoax that there would be
as little detail as possible. There is enough detail in the
debris footage to convince me that it would be expensive to
produce. If this film is a hoax it was well researched,
elaborately scripted and was therefore an expensive
undertaking." and "When considering any of the above mentioned
processes' (milling, extrusion, rolling, molding and casting as
possible methods to explain how the debris was created) one must
think of cost. I do not see how any of the above mentioned
processes would work and if they could be made to work who would
spend enough money to make them work. If you could produce this
type of detail with some process, you would be making money on
producing things that would reap far greater profits than an
Alien Dissection hoax film."

http://www.beyondroswell.com/roswell/debris.htm

But I'm a little perplexed; perhaps you (or Gildas) can help me
out. You stated "I'm still at work on this frustrating subject.
And, don't have a solution, yet." If you're really serious about
being "frustrated" why haven't you contacted me about visiting
the cameraman's crash site or for more information? Were you
paying any attention?

If you weren't, why not and if you were, where have I failed to
convince you? Do you think I'm a liar, or somehow very badly
mistaken and misinformed,or just crazy?

I'm asking for an honest answer from you or anyone else
who wishes to respond. I can't imagine why important
information is being ignored.

For once there is a possibility of examining, in detail, an
actual crash site. There's burned vegetation, cristobalite
covered sand and bacterial mats, and much, much more. And best
of all, it's completely accessible, and close to Albuquerque.
There are probably more than fifty persons on the list who are
within a three-hour drive of the site. It's all free!

You'll never be sorry that you took the chance, no matter how
skeptical you might be about my claims.


Ed








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   Apr > Apr 12

               Re: Ripped-Off Map Image By German Site - Hatch

From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 10:58:50 -0700
Fwd Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 16:31:28 -0400
Subject: Re: Ripped-Off Map Image By German Site - Hatch


>From: Trevor Page <trevor.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 16:46:59 -0400
>Subject: Re: Ripped-Off Map Image By German Site

>>From: Joachim Koch <lists.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 15:37:56 +0100
>>Subject: Re: Ripped-Off Map Image By German Site

>>>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
>>>To: UFO UpDates -Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 01:24:25 -0700
>>>Subject: Ripped-Off Map Image By German Site

>>>Can somebody who reads German help me here?

>>>Looking thru the logs for my website, I found this web
>>>page deep-linking one of my UFO maps. There is _no_
>>>indication that they give credit to the source (my work

>>and site), nor a link back.

>>>Please check this out whether you can read the text or
>>>not:

>>>http://www.faktinfo.de/forum/messages/16818.htm

>>>I can't read German. I don't know if they are giving
>>>credit or taking credit (20 years work by the way) or
>>>something else entirely.

>>I can read German! :-)I will contact the man who is known to me.
>>He surely will contact you because I couldn't find what you mean
>>because the web address you provided gives me only a blank page.


>Here's the Google cache for the website in question:

>http://www.google.ca/search?q=cache:w4yyqlBXha4J:www.faktinfo.de/forum/ message
s/16818.htm+&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

>You're welcome :)


Hello Trev:

Ah yes, the good old Google Cache!

This looks like a weblog (blog) in German. If so, then the image
was deep linked by an unidentified contributor tagged "Hermes".

Clicking on "Hermes" reveals nothing. You should see how 'deep
linking' is regarded on Webmasterworld and similar discussion
groups, something like horse thievery, depending who is writing.
"They" take credit (or at least don't give any) while you or I
pay the bandwidth.

I was about to replace the image with something more fun, but
the Webmaster at Faktinfo.de blanked out the page.

That pretty much concludes the matter, assuming it doesn't
reappear. Faktinfo can't do much about cached pages, few people
look for them.


Best wishes and yes, thanks.

- Larry









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   Apr > Apr 13

              Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers - Koch

From: Joachim Koch <lists.nul>
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 14:41:28 +0100
Fwd Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 19:40:37 -0400
Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers - Koch


Date: Sat, 09 Apr 2004 15:00:00 GMT
From: lists.nul <>
To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers

>From: Chris Parr <cparr.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 09:15:50 +0100
>Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers

>UFO researchers have focused their attentions on this case for a
>considerably long time and I find it inconceivable that a couple
>of pranksters can shoot the Autopsy Footage whilst giggling like
>silly schoolboys and bouncing up and down. Gung Ho frivolity
>would not have created the Tent Footage and it is a more
>realistic proposition to believe that their prank element was
>solely that of claiming responsibility to hoaxing the Alien
>Autopsy Footage.

Hello Chris,

On my website:

www.kochkyborg.de

and click on the International Roswell Initiative) I have a page
where I present a German translation of many of the research
results provided by various researchers some years ago regarding
the 'tent footage'. Beside my co-foundership of the
International Roswell Initiative I wrote articles for the German
magazine 'UFO Kurier' from time to time. In the article about
the 'tent footage' I used material of Philip Mantle  with his
permission.

According to that, Philip received a telephone call on March 30,
1998, by Keith Goodyer who worked in a computer hardware
enterprise in Milton Keynes, UK. This Keith had a colleague who
worked at (or owned) A.R.K. Music Ltd., Suite 2, Witan Court,
Silbury Boulevard, Central Milton Keynes, Bucks. . One day Keith
visited his colleague at A.R.K. and while they were talking, the
telephone rang. At the other end was Ray Santilli. After the
phone call they talked about Santilli and the AA-footage and the
colleague revealed that they had produced this 'tent footage'.
According to Philip Mantle and Tim Matthews (and Keith)two men
produced the 'tent footage' originally for Bruce Barlowe,
producer of a series of videos entitled "Penetrating The Web".
The name of the two men are: Keith Bateman, 93 Eelbrook Avenue,
Bradwell Common, Milton Keynes, Bucks, K13 8RF and Andy Price
Watts, Music House, 77 Water End, Eversholt, Milton Keynes,
Bucks, MK17 9EA.

Keith said that a another former colleague named Elliot (a sound
engineer) is clearly to be seen acting in the 'tent footage'. He
also revealed to Philip that the two came in contact with Ray
Santilli who finally got the material from them. It was not
shown in the "Penetrating The Web" series. Keith received a copy
of that video with the 'tent footage' and gave it later to Bob
Kiviat, the producer of "Alien Autopsy: Fact or Fiction".

Confronted with the above developments, Ray Santilli wrote an
email to Philip claiming that he ordered a company in
Buckinghamshire to retrieve all what is not destroyed on the
reel of film he got from the cameraman. When he later on a
second trip to the U.S. showed a video (sic!) with the 'tent
footage' to the cameraman this one could not remember these
scenes to be part of the whole footage. Santilli (aacording to
his claims) took the rest of the footage back to the U.K.. There
he became suspicious that someone might have added or mixed the
original footage with a joke/hoax in that company in
Buckinghamshire. This, according to Santilli, is the reason why
the 'tent footage' was not show anymore.

So even Santilli rules not out the possibility that the 'tent
footage' or parts of it are hoaxed.

Many questions arouse from this story. If you count one and one
together and look back at the time from a certain distance then
the picture comes clearer:

- Everything was done in the past to cover-up the Roswell
Incident and to ridicule Jesse Marcel, Sr..

- After nearly 30 years of silence the pressure on the Air Force
became very strong due to the research results of well known
researchers and their publications and lectures who are here on
this list and elsewhere. And it was the International Roswell
Initiative which made everything known worldwide and which
collected more than 20,000 signed 'Roswell Declarations', among
them hundreds of scientists and two Apollo Astronauts. For the
first time ever, CUFOS, FUFOR and MUFON signed a declaration all
together. Roswell was in the media and in the public awareness
worldwide.

- And with the late Sen. Steven Schiff, who forced the GAO for
an investigation, it came up to governmental levels.

- To all our surprise, the Air Force issued their first 'report'
on Roswell and 'closed cases'. They admitted a cover-up but only
due to a secret balloon project named 'MOGUL'. And because of
the public protest, they issued another 'report' claiming that
bodies who were found in the desert have been test-dummies.

-But because this all was to ridicule the public was not calmed,
it was the opposite. Not very long since the publication of
these 'reports' a certain Ray Santilli, after having been in the
U.S. (sic!) announced a 'public' presentation of the AA footage
on May 5th, 1995.

-This was the shot through the shoulder into the heart of the
seriousity of all our endeavour to produce a solid UFO research
on Roswell. The whole world laughed about the AA and us who
dealt with it. And when then the 50. anniversary of the Roswell
Incident arrived, everything was destroyed beforehand that could
have made this day becoming a cornerstone of modern UFO
research. And so it is still today.

It was all deliberately planned. Is this so difficult to
recognize?


Joachim Koch
-----------------------------------
More info: http://www.kochkyborg.de
-----------------------------------






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   Apr > Apr 13

                Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers -

From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman.nul>
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 09:51:33 -0700
Fwd Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 19:46:29 -0400
Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers -


>From: John Scheldroup <jschel.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 16:28:30 -0500
>Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers

>>From: Philip Mantle <suemantle.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers
>>Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 11:50:21 +0100

>I could be mistaken about some of the things I've noticed
>regarding images listed at beyondroswell.com afterall the
>image I understand was enhanced, so who knows if this is right
>or not, but here it goes. Thanks for your time.

>Regards to your following,

http://www.beyondroswell.com/roswell/Barry%20Burton%20Alien%20Autopsy%20Imag
e%20Enhancement.htm


http://www.beyondroswell.com/roswell/New%20Autopsy%20Photos%20Under%20Enhamc
ments/Symbols2.jpg

>http://tinyurl.com/2ves6

>Look carefully in the upperleft corner of the object. To an
>untrained eye you might see the reflecting edge of object, but
>what I see is something else.

>You can just make them out, they are the vertical spaced jagged
>lines evenly spaced along the edge of the object. We can see
>some thickness the object also.. I know these lines lines to be
>caused from a vertical bandsaw cut, probably by the fabricator
>that cut the metal.

>Those vertical line patterns are caused from the pitch (spacing
>of blade tooth) on the saw blade and high surface speeds of the
>blade itself, the fabricator probably wants to cut fast this
>causing a jagged edge or two.

>A bad edge, that in other words, if you could look at it under a
>magnifier you would notice the peaks and valleys that follow the
>edge.

>Maybe the aliens just don't grind part edges on thin walls?

John,

Have you read Dennis Murphy's report on the debris?

http://www.beyondroswell.com/roswell/debris.htm

What do you think of his assessment?

>As for the symbols on the object. Could be interpreted by
>anybody to mean many things,.. when I look at the first symbol
>it appears to be a musical half-note, the next one is it similar
>to staff lines or a math set.

>Beyond the meaning of symbols themselves what I can say to some
>degree of certainty is that both symbols do share something in
>common, they were both formed with a punch and an hammer.

I thought the symbols were not indented, but embossed. Aren't
they "raised symbols" above the flat surface, not carved or
"punched" into it? Or are you saying that the punching somehow
raises the symbols, and this is accomplished while the metal is
still hot? Can you duplicate the process?

>The first symbol will clearly show this as the "|" is punched
>first and the bottom "O" is punched last to form the squirlly
>"d". To see how this works we can see how a dark spot is formed
>on the "|", which is right where the metal begins to flow into
>an upward pattern..This a cause and effect by the second punch.

>A dark impressions forms in the conjoined area of "O" into "|"
>which has formed high spots on the metal from being forced
>upwards into the flow of "|". When if this were the other way
>around and you stamped the the bottom "O" first and "|" second
>the same dark impression would be rising into the "O" and not
>the "|".

>The same thing again found on the second symbol, where the
>single vertical line is punched first, we see that three
>horizontal lines conjoin which are punched last. Again, the dark
>impressions.. metal being forced to overlap metal to indicate
>some two-step process.

>Both of these examples also show that no single punch having two
>symbols were ever used but rather it seems, a painstaking effort
>to manually form each one. I can count six punches on two
>symbols.

Are you saying that this is a process that can be duplicated
by our current technology? How much would this
"painstaking effort" cost and where could we get it done?
I don't exactly get your point. Are you arguing that the
debris could be easily hoaxed or are you marveling at
what seems to be the technical skill required.

If you're at all interested in the AA, you could own your own
high resolution AA CD set for $15.00.

http://www.v-j-enterprises.com/aafilm/details.html

Ed











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   Apr > Apr 13

                Re: Jerry Black To Polygraph Bruce Maccabee -

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 13:52:17 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 19:48:23 -0400
Subject: Re: Jerry Black To Polygraph Bruce Maccabee -


>From: Jerry Black <gulfbreezeinfo.nul>
>To: UFO Updates <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 12:18:19 -0700 (PDT)
>Subject: Jerry Black To Polygraph Bruce Maccabee

>>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 18:05:01 -0500
>>Subject: Re: Jerry Black To Polygraph Bruce Maccabee


>April 5, 2004

>Dr. Bruce Maccabee,

>Nice try, as I clearly stated in my request for you to take a
>polygraph test, this test is only to establish the flow of the
>money from Mr. Ed Walters.

Nice try? I saidI would take your test. I just wasn't going to
be ridiculous about it take up my valuable time traveling and
have Stan pay my way (or me pay
my way) to your polygrapher in Arizona or wherever.


>The test will determine if you received money either directly or
>indirectly from the pockets of Mr. Ed Walters between January 1,
>1988 to August 1, 1988.

>Most importantly, during the time period of January 1, 1988 to
>August 1, 1988, were you made aware either from Mr. Ed Walters
>or the MUFON Organization that you would be receiving monies in
>the future from the pockets of Mr. Ed Walters.

>The only way you can get me off your back is if your good friend
>Mr. Ed Walters would take, and pass a three party polygraph test >
>paid for by me. We both know this is not going to happen.

I guess we agree on one thing. After all, Ed has already been
tested twice, whether you like the results or not.

>I have already obtained the services of a polygraph expert 30
>miles from your home. Final arrangements are being made as we
>speak.

Fine. Give me a phone # and I'll contact the person and we'll
arrange the actual date, place, time.

I suspect that this won't prove anything regarding the Walters
sightings themselves.

If (when) I pass, this will only "prove" (to the extent that a
polygraph proves anything) that I didn't take $$ from Walters or
anyone (except Fund for UFO Research for travel). This will not
provide scientific evidence that Ed didn't fake the whole thing
(in company with many other witnesses!). In other words, I
suspect you will then claim that I too, was a victim of the hoax
by Ed and will continue in your obtuse pursuit of the truth as
you see it.








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                 Re: No Flow Of Gulf Breeze Money - Maccabee

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 14:21:53 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 19:50:39 -0400
Subject: Re: No Flow Of Gulf Breeze Money - Maccabee


>From: Jerry Black <gulfbreezeinfo.nul>
>To: UFO Updates <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 12:24:02 -0700 (PDT)
>Subject: Re: No Flow Of Gulf Breeze Money


>>From: Robert Gates <RGates8254.nul>
>>To: updates.nul
>>Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 23:51:09 EST
>>Subject: No Flow Of Gulf Breeze Money

>>Bottom Line Of The No Flow Of Gulf Breeze Money

SNIP

>>I e-mailed some principles and asked questions and here is the
>>bottom line on this issue:

>MUFON has no receipts of funds (such as the alleged huge
>>donation) paid to MUFON from Ed Walters. Apparently Ed Walters
>>did not pay or contribute to MUFON such rumored sums of money.
>>Nothing shows up in the MUFON tax returns. Point here - if
>>MUFON's annual income went up 20K, without a boost of
>>membership, that figure would show up in the tax returns.

>>Walt Andrus, who was director of MUFON then. When asked about a
>>monetary donation from Ed Walters to MUFON and/or him
>>personally, he emphatically said "NO!"

>>The MUFON records show some small dollar item in 1988 for a
>>water analysis, no expenditure in 1989, and another small dollar
>>item in 1990 for a site survey. The small dollar totaled less
>>then 250.00. They were described as correct and legitimate
>>expenses, paid from MUFON funds, as part of the investigation.

>>MUFON apparently doesn't have any information as to the
>>involvement (donations and/or expenditures) in Gulf Breeze by
>>other organizations.

>>So simply stated, there were no sums of money paid by Ed Walters
>>to MUFON, then given to Bruce Maccabee to tilt the investigation
>>in favor of Ed Walters.

>>So the bottom line on the alleged and talked about "flow of Gulf
>>Breeze money" is there was no flow. What we have here is another
>>jewel encrusted helmet story.


>April 5, 2004

>Mr. Robert Gates,

>That was a poor job of investigating the flow of the money, Mr.
>Robert Gates. After 16 years of cover up, did you think Mr.
>Walt Andrus would admit anything?

Apparently you consider it a poor investigation simply because the
result was not what you wanted. Did you call upShuessler and ask
him to search the MUFON files? Did you contact Andrus to find
out what he would say?

Apparently not.

So Gates wins the investigation contest.

>The cashier's check from Mr. Ed Walters had two signatures on
>the back, Mr. Walt Andrus' and Dr. Bruce Maccabee's, this does
>not touch the MUFON account.

A cashier's check? Made out to two people (me and Andrus)? Never
heard of that before and certainly don't recall any check,
cashier's or otherwise. I do recall surrilous "documents" about
Ed's sightings being circulated in GB during the spring of 1988.
Some of these were intended to disparage Ed's reports. And there
were the proven fake photos, similar to (but not identical to)
Ed's photos sent to the Sentinel in the fall of 1988. There
seems to have been an effort by someone or some people to
portray Ed as a hoaxer. Perhaps someone generated a fake
cashier's check. Have you checked with the bank to see if money
actually flowed from "point A to point B?"










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   Apr > Apr 13

               Re: Ripped-Off Map Image By German Site - Hatch

From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 10:38:13 -0700
Fwd Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 19:52:49 -0400
Subject: Re: Ripped-Off Map Image By German Site - Hatch


>From: Joachim Koch <lists.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 15:37:56 +0100
>Subject: Re: Ripped-Off Map Image By German Site

>>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates -Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 01:24:25 -0700
>>Subject: Ripped-Off Map Image By German Site

>>Hello all:

>>Can somebody who reads German help me here?

>>Looking thru the logs for my website, I found this web
>>page deep-linking one of my UFO maps. There is _no_
>>indication that they give credit to the source (my work
>and site), nor a link back.

>>Please check this out whether you can read the text or
>>not:

>>http://www.faktinfo.de/forum/messages/16818.htm

>>I can't read German. I don't know if they are giving
>>credit or taking credit (20 years work by the way) or
>>something else entirely.

>I can read German! :-)I will contact the man who is known to
>me. He surely will contact you because I couldn't find what you
>mean because the web address you provided gives me only a blank
>page.

Hello Joachim:


There is no more need to pursue the matter.

I sent a 'nastygram' to the webmaster. Soon after that the page
simply went blank, no apologies or explanations, but at least
its gone.

I don't really mind if a snippet of mine is reproduced as long
as there are credits, my name or whatever, and a link back to my
website.

I only see red when these are absent, as was the case with the
(now blank) faktinfo page.

Thanks very much for your concern!


- Larry








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                      Re: Zeta Reticuli I & II? - Koch

From: Joachim Koch <lists.nul>
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 16:55:02 +0100
Fwd Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 19:54:18 -0400
Subject: Re: Zeta Reticuli I & II? - Koch


>From: Tim Shell<tshell.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Thu,  8 Apr 2004 07:59:50 -0500
>Subject: Re: Zeta Reticuli I & II?

>program or at least something a little more accurate than Fish's
>analog near-star model?  I was looking at the Koch-Kyborg
>interpretation, that says the Betty Hill map actually represents
>our own solar system, but I'm not completely sold on it.

>Maybe the Hill map is just to crude to be useful.

Hello Tim, List,

We stated again and again that is was and is never our
intention to minimize the work Marjorie Fish had done with her
models. This work was great, it was time consuming and surely
not inexpensive. Maybe we too, like her, without a computer at
time, would have laid on our back underneath the strings with
the coloured pearls and peering from this or that arbitrary
vantage point to see if we could match Betty's pattern with our
model. So Mrs. Fish deserves all our respect.

Our approach to the whole thing was different. We came back to
Betty's map when we with our crop circle research in England
have been in the fourth year (all in all fourteen by now). We
went down there to England with an astronomic concept to get in
contact with this unknown non-human intelligence and were
successfull in our endeavour in 1991 in a most spectacular and
most positive way. With the help of 'the Phenomenon' - as we all
in England usually name this intelligence - we identified
HD42807 right in the center of the 'Winter Circle' as a
significant star for our human relationship to other
intelligences of a yet unknown dimension.

In the  meantime, we published two books about our research. The
only purpose of these books is to provide information but not to
play ourselves in the foreground or earn money. Give as you
receive.

So we were trained to look at dots and lines first from our
astronomical background and second from our research in England
dealing with circles and lines.

Betty's 'map' had never left us since we saw it for the first
time and now - after being out in the fields of Wiltshire and
among the 5000 year old standing stones which are abundant there
- we felt (for various reasons) that we should review it.

We looked at what Betty told in Fuller's book and found
inconsistencies. We looked at her 'map' and found something that
reminded us of something.

To read all this you should look at our website:

http://www.kochkyborg.de

and click there on: 'Betty Hill Case'.

There we give descriptions and show, in comparison, in colour
Betty's map, Mrs. Fish's map and the solar system how we found
it around the date of the abduction of Betty and Barney.

>From what Betty told us, we have  n o  good reason to assume
that what was shown to Betty was a 'star' map. It was Mrs. Fish
who made a 'star' map out of it.

While being abducted and while Barney was somewhere else aboard
at this time, Betty stood in the same room aboard the spaceship
where she was examined before. She was alone with the "leader."
He didn't answer her question about their origin but asked her
instead if she knew anything about the universe. Betty replied:

"...And I told him no. I knew practically nothing. That when I
was in graduate school we were taught that the sun was the
center of the solar system, and there were nine planets. ..."

The 'leader' - as Betty sensed that he might have been in this
position - wanted to know her more about the Universe. In these
moments, she should receive astronomical knowledege from this
being. Never mix this up. He simply wanted to calibrate her
astronomical knowledge to see how far he could go without being
misunderstood.

And then Betty continues to tell during the hypnosis session:

"So I asked him where was his home port, and he said "Where were
you on the map?" I looked and laughed and said "I don't now." So
he said, "If you don't know where you are, then there isn't any
point of my telling where I am from." And he put the map-the map
rolled up, and he put it back in the space in the wall and
closed it."

>From this crucial part of the text we asked ourselves and are
asking you: is there any reason to believe that this was really
a 'star' map? Shown to someone who does not know where there the
Earth is.

If you start to teach someone the alphabet, you start with A-B-
C... If you start to teach someone the multiplication tables you
start with numbers one, two and three.

If you start to show someone something about the Universe who
'practically knows nothing' you start with our Earth, the Moon
and the Sun and then you add Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter and
Saturn which all are visible to the naked eye. Many of you have
done so with their children.

So we thought: if it was not a 'star' map, what was it then?

You may read, see and compare what we found out on our website.

Zeta Reticuli A and B were introduced to the UFO community by
Mrs. Marjorie Fish, not by the aliens who abducted Betty and
Barney Hill.

To come to an end, we would like to state that we cannot and
will not rule out the possibility that intelligent life
originated from this region of space if we apply the model
'yellow star like our Sun with planets = possibility of
intelligent life in the HZ' to all the other 'yellow stars'.

In this light we will not forget that even the 'sports model'
might originate from Zeta Reticuli according to what Bob Lazar
read in a certain book...

But in the meantime we have learned from research results that
even on our own planet, life is possible under circumstances we
usually thought to be impossible. These circumstances we find
elsewhere for example on Titan or on reddish Sedna. We might not
necessarily need 'yellow stars' to look for life.

And, right now we learn about life in our solar system
originating from elswhere or having been elswhere than the
Earth. We are discussing artifacts and anomalies found here and
there.

While we were working on our 'New Discoveries in Betty Hill's
Star Map' we always applied the minimum chance to our results to
stay reliable. We limited ourselves to the minimum possible
result of the outcome of each step - and amazingly, we stepped
ahead.

We took the freedom to say: If we were to find out how things
could continue, we had to try to put ourselves in the role of a
UFOnaut. What would we do if we, as a species that has been
spacefaring for many hundreds of years, entered an alien solar
system?

First we quickly would determine how many planets are part of
this solar system. From previous analysis of the central
rotating star we would know the distance of the life-zone around
the star. We would approach near this habitable zone "from
above" or "from below" the orbital plane of the inner planets
and would complete our analysis.

Actually, if there would be life-forms on any of the planets, we
would study their state of development from a discrete distance
at first. Certainly, we would place our own security first in
any encounters with the life-bearing worlds. We would send out
patrols - both unmanned and manned - to determine what is going
on and would choose a place that would provide us with a maximum
vantage point without being detected.

Well, we found some - in Betty Hill's map. Quoted from the text
on our website:

"We remind the reader here of our restriction that practically
only the biggest asteroids should have chosen for expeditions.
Actually, in the positions to have a realistic reproduction of
the Hill's pattern, there were 6 of the 46 largest asteroids,
among them the second largest of all, Pallas! A remarkable
success for an experimental condition that was formulated "off
the cuff" after some imaginative thoughts. Even these six
exhibit some surprising characteristics."

"All six asteroids belong to the group of the so called "Amor-
Asteroids" that never cross Earth's orbit. Our small group even
stays beyond the Martian orbit and members never come
dangerously close to either of these two planets. Each one of
the asteroids has a different angle of orbital inclination to
the ecliptic plane. If one would sit on one of our six asteroids
and would make a trip around the inner planets, one would have a
wide view of the whole system, sometimes from below, sometimes
from above."

"Surprisingly, among the six asteroids we found, Pallas has the
greatest angle of orbital inclination of 34.810 of the greatest
asteroids. No other asteroid swings up so high above the
ecliptic plane before, like a cosmic Ferris wheel, flying below
it with the same distance. With its diameter of 914 km, it would
provide ideal conditions for a permanent observatory of the
whole solar system."

" "Somebody" would not have to go to the trouble of constructing
and orbiting an artificial free-flight space station and would
never have to worry of being detected. The connection line from
Jupiter to Pallas is drawn as a strong line in Betty Hill's map
which means the UFOnauts attach some importance to Pallas."

We are aware that some always have difficulties with new
concepts. Some haven't been able to find a reason for accepting
our research. Well, we can cope with this - and please decide
for yourself: was it really Zeta Reticuli that Betty Hill had
seen?

Joachim Koch & Hans-Juergen Kyborg




-----------------------------------
More info: http://www.kochkyborg.de
-----------------------------------








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   Apr > Apr 13

                    "Flying To Space Is Very Interesting"

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 08:09:38 -0700
Fwd Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 19:55:30 -0400
Subject: "Flying To Space Is Very Interesting"


Source: Mosnews.com

http://www.mosnews.com/interview/2004/04/12/kaleri.shtml

"Flying to Space Is Very Interesting"

Created: 12.04.2004 17:10 MSK (GMT +3), Updated: 17:55 MSK, 1
hour 21 minutes ago

Gazeta.Ru

On the eve of Cosmonautics Day, marked in Russia on 12 April,
Aleksandr Kaleri, a flight engineer and member of the current
ISS crew, answered the questions of Gazeta.Ru readers, posed to
him via a video link with the station. Vladimir Solovyev, a
senior Russian flight director and former cosmonaut, answered
our readers=92 questions on the ground.

Dear Alexander, we would like to congratulate you on
Cosmonautics Day! And the first question is whether space
flights have lost their romantic appeal for you and become just
a routine day-to-day job for you? Gazeta.Ru, Moscow

Thank you for the congratulations. On my part, I, too,
congratulate you on Cosmonautics=92 Day. And also I would like to
congratulate everyone, for this is not just a corporate holiday
marked by professional cosmonauts only; this is a holiday for
the entire nation. As to the romantic appeal, of course, it is
still there. Although I have to say that our work in orbit has
become a routine. But there is still some romanticism in it.

Hi! I would very much like to fly into space. Many children and
adults dream of that. Aleksandr, did you also dream of becoming
a cosmonaut as a child, or did you consider some other
profession? And do your children dream of becoming cosmonauts?
Aleksei Trik, Moscow

I think, people have always dreamt of outer space, although
today not as many people still dream about becoming cosmonauts
as before. When I was a child all children without exception
played Gagarin and Titov, the first Soviet cosmonauts, and
dreamed of space. And I, too, wanted to fly into space. And that
is what I dreamt of. It is only that I did not know how to make
it come true. But now I think that dreaming of it was easier.

We were brought up in such a manner that there had always been
some confidence: virtually anything is possible, as long as you
are really eager to achieve something. No obstacles, be it
health problems and so on, were ever given any thought. All
roads seemed open. All that was needed was the will and effort,
and anything seemed achievable. Now I understand that this is
not so.

As regards my son=92s plans, I don=92t know. So far he has not
shared his ideas on what he wants to become. He has an interest
in everything. I think the time will come and he will make his
choice himself. Of course, I=92d be interested in seeing him
continue my work, but that has to be his own choice.

Would you stay another six months in orbit? Would it be unsafe
to do so, since people get weaker and weaker and may not be able
to meet the physical challenges? Robert, Houston, TX

Basically, we are set to do as much as is required. So that is
not a big problem. I think that physical and psychological
changes are still not that obvious, even more so, since we are
not doing anything new. We used to spend a year and even more in
space, and all feel well and healthy. A year in space is not a
problem.

Are you alarmed by the strange sounds that seem to come from the
outer layer of the station? Good luck, guys! The Earth is proud
of you. Dennis, Waterloo, Canada

(Kaleri laughs) Well, maybe we have a house-spirit here. Or a
station-spirit, who knows! But judging by the fact that the
sound we hear is always the same, we have concluded that it
cannot be caused by some external object. A collision with some
other body in this area is unlikely. Most likely, the reason is
somewhere in the station, in some systems. But this is for
experts to establish, to analyze the data.

Do you believe in UFOs? Anton Livshits, St Petersburg Have you
seen a UFO or anything like that? Or is it a secret? Alex,
Berlin

I have never seen anything like an UFO and make no secret of it.

Aleksandr Yurievich, is there any difference between the ISS and
Mir? In which of the two orbit stations is it more interesting
to work? Irina Moscow

There are similarities and differences. The US section [of the
ISS] is something absolutely new, while the Russian section is
built largely on the basis of Mir, the experience of building
the Mir station was used in building the ISS.

At the same time, some new ideas have been implemented. There
are certain advantages and certain disadvantages. I think one
cannot say that working in either Mir or the ISS is more
interesting=85

Aleksandr, can you observe combat operations going on the Earth,
such as =92hot spots=92, the war in Iraq? Yelena Grigoryeva, the
United Arab Emirates

Two weeks ago we saw a blaze in Iraq. Apparently, an oil
pipeline was on fire not far from the Kuwaiti border. It was a
big fire, a lot of black smoke, a giant cloud. Then they said
there had been an act of sabotage or a major accident. As to
combat operations proper, we have not seen any. But quite often
we see accidents.

Vladimir Solovyev, a senior Russian flight director and former
cosmonaut, answered other questions posed by Gazeta.Ru readers.

What is the purpose of the ISS project? Matt, the European Union

Any manned space apparatus is a very complicated system of
devices and mechanisms, capable of fulfilling difficult tasks.
For instance, nobody asks why we need communication satellites,
television relays, or satellite antennae.

Needless to say, such space apparatuses are necessary for
television, mobile phones, taking photos, for national defense.
But when you launch some new device into space and it doesn=92t
work, you have to build the satellite anew, launch the rocket =97
all that is very expensive. But if you send that device to a
station in orbit, it can be repaired. That, of course, is much
cheaper.

Furthermore, any difficult problem can be solved, provided new
technology, new materials and new principles of work are
applied. And they are being tested in space. Manned space
flights are necessary, but Russia can barely afford them. In
terms of financing of space projects Russia is ranked, I think,
20th in the world in percentage of gross national product,
preceded by India. The space budget has dropped 20 times.

That is why, in order to carry out some expensive space
research, it is necessary to combine our efforts. While it turns
out that we cannot invest money, at the same time the entire
world community understands that we have intellectual potential
and priceless experience. And although we have only provided
about 4% of the ISS=92 finances, we work nearly on a par with the
Americans: we have the right to 40 per cent of the scientific
research, the dividends from the station.

How long is it planned to operate the station? Aleksandr,
Yekaterinburg

Initially it was planned that the Mir space station would orbit
the Earth for three years, but then the term was extended to 5
years. And its usefulness was believed to have been exhausted.
But it stayed in space for 15 years =97 three times as long as had
been expected. On the basis of the Mir experience, we plan to
operate the ISS for 15 years. But I hope that it will be longer.

What medical experiments do space tourists undergo on board the
station? Could you provide details on the issue, please? Why
else would outsiders be allowed access to the secret
installation? Yevgeny, Moscow

To begin with, the ISS is not a secret installation. It is a
product of international cooperation and it cannot be secret by
definition. We do not carry out any secret work at the ISS, nor
do our partners from the US, Europe, Canada and Japan.

As for the tourists, first of all, they are no outsiders. They
are rather well-off people who can afford investing $20 million
towards their space ticket.

Secondly, nearly all space tourists =97 one ought to give them
their due =97 were on serious scientific programs. For instance,
the South-African cosmonaut Mark Shuttleworth brought into space
and implemented a wonderful educational program.

He worked very hard there, ran round like a squirrel in a cage.
He held lessons from space for the young, he carried out
experiments in the field of inventing new medications for
fighting leukemia and AIDs.

Moreover, he organized video links with orphanages, talked with
disabled children in the South African Republic, Great Britain
and in Europe. That was a very active program.

Is it true that the radiation level at over 800 kilometers above
the Earth=92s atmosphere is so high that a person cannot work
there? Vasily, Moscow

Yes, it is indeed so. Moscow is surrounded by a powerful
electromagnetic sphere. When our space equipment, as well as the
ISS, is below 500 kilometers, that sphere protects them.
However, once the apparatus goes above that level the protection
stops working. Space radiation is very powerful. This is
registered by geo-stationary satellites.

But I have to say that this radiation is not deadly. It is
enough to recall the US manned flight to the Moon. The American
astronauts flew to the Moon for nearly a week, some spent a week
there, and then the flight home took them another week. And they
still felt fine and well. So there is no need to over-dramatize
the situation.

Do cosmonauts drink alcohol in orbit? They say vodka and red
wine are believed to be very good for people exposed to
radiation. Leo, Bavaria

Great idea. We have heard many doctors say that. But,
unfortunately, wine and alcoholic drinks are prohibited for
cosmonauts =97 only upon landing.

What does Italy look like from outer space? Yuri, Italy

Italy is beautiful, especially at night. There are many highways
there, including those along the coast. They are all brightly
lit. Just imagine, against the dark background of the
Mediterranean you see the contour of a fragile boot that seems
to be made of crystal=85

Russian cities are very beautiful. Moscow is very beautiful. St
Petersburg appears against the skyline in a kind of glow=85 In
Moscow, by the way, one can clearly see the Ostankino
[television] tower, Manezh Square. But unfortunately, as you
pass beyond the Urals there is just pitch darkness=85

Is it possible to see the hole in the ozone layer and large-
scale industrial pollution on our planet? Lyosha, Moscow

Of course, you cannot see the ozone hole. But as for large-scale
industrial pollution, one can see that very well. For instance,
the black trail coming from the pipes of the Chimkent plant can
be seen for thousands of kilometers. One can see oil slicks
clearly. I flew in the times of the Iran-Iraq conflict. At the
time they were blowing up oil terminals near Baalbek.

The blaze could be seen from outer space. Cosmonauts often
report forest fires, which often break out near Irkutsk and
Chita in the vicinity of Lake Baikal. By the way, when we fly
over some major city, we see the =92lens=92 of smog, as we call it.

How do cosmonauts cast ballots in the elections of their
country=92s governing bodies? Dmitry, St. Petersburg

We have had such occasions more than once. We have a special
means of communication, which enable cosmonauts to cast their
ballots in secret. We invite electoral officials to the flight
control centre. They establish a direct link with a cosmonaut
and thus he votes. Or by proxy.

Why do women not take part in ISS expeditions? In what language
do Michael [Foale] and Aleksandr [Kareli] communicate? Vitaly,
Canada

You know, I used to fly with Svetlana Savitskaya, whom I very
much respect. Several women worked at the ISS. It is a mistake
to think that women are not allowed on board. Among the Russian
and American cosmonauts there are many wonderful women, who have
already flown or will fly to the ISS in the future.

As to the language they speak at the ISS, it is a mixture of
English and Russian. Our cosmonauts learn English and already
speak it fluently enough. Americans, as well as all other
cosmonauts, including tourists, can speak some Russian.










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   Apr > Apr 13

                       UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 9 Number 15

From: John Hayes <webmaster.nul>
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 14:18:21 +0100
Fwd Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 20:02:12 -0400
Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 9 Number 15


Posted on behalf of Joseph Trainor.

<Masinaigan.nul>
==========================

      UFO ROUNDUP
Volume 9, Number 15
April 14, 2004
Editor: Joseph Trainor

E-mail: Masinaigan.nul
Website: http://www.ufoinfo.com/roundup/


MYSTERIOUS DEATHS KEEP
FAYETTE FACTOR BOILING

      More weird incidents linked to the Fayette Factor
surfaced last week in Pennsylvania, North Carolina and
Indiana.
      The Fayette Factor is a little-understood phenomenon
in which the incidence of paranormal events is much
greater in places named for Marie-Joseph de Motier, the
Marquis de Lafayette, one of the USA's Founding Fathers
and a prominent Freemason.
      Fayette County, Pennsylvania, which has had the most
weird incidents of the current flap, weighed in again with
another surge of mysterious fires.
      "Salvatore Ross Jr. came home to Fayette County, Pa.
as a hero for losing his leg and his eyesight in Iraq.
Now he's an arson suspect."
      Pennsylvania "State Police confirm that they are
looking at Ross, 21, of Dunbar, Pa. in connection with a
fire that damaged six cars on property owned by his
grandfather, Joseph, also of Dunbar."
      "The fire happened late Tuesday night," April 6,
2004, "on Hardy Hill Road."
      Elsewhere in the county, "police are searching for
the person who threw a large chunk of cement off an
overpass in Fayette County."
      "Police said the cement chunk was thrown off the Buke
Road overpass along Route 119 and went through Anthony
Keepers' windshield."
      "Keepers, 58, was flown to a Pittsburgh hospital
where he was suffering from head, face and body injuries."
      Another bizarre traffic incident claimed the life of
a Fayette County teenager.
      "A teenager was killed and a man was seriously
injured in an accident early Saturday morning," April 3,
2004, "on Route 51 near Perryopolis, Pa."
      "James P. Stokes, 17, of 408 Bells Mills Road, West
Newton, Pa. was pronounced dead at the scene of the 7:15
a.m. accident in Perry Township, Fayette County.  It is
believed that Stokes was on his way home after taking an
entrance examination at Penn State-Fayette, the Eberly
campus, said Fayette County coroner Philip Reilly."
      "According to state police Trooper Christopher
Klacik, Stokes was driving north when his car and another
headed in the opposite direction collided."
      "The driver of that car, Robert Bobin, 49, of
Monongahela, was first taken to Uniontown Hospital and
then to Ruby Memorial Hospital in Morgantown, West
Virginia, where he was listed in critical condition last
night."
      "Klacik said police were investigating what caused
Bobin's car to cross the center line as well as how fast
the two cars were traveling."
      "Reilly said Stokes wasn't wearing a seat belt and
died of major blunt force trauma to the head, chest and
lower extremities.  It's unknown whether Bobin was wearing
a seat belt, according to police."
      Commenting on the accident, Fortean researcher Loren
Coleman pointed out that the newspaper report first
appeared in Kittaning, Pa. (population 4,787), north of
Fayette County.  Kittaning, he pointed out, was the
location where the 2002 movie, The Mothman Prophecies, was
shot.
      Loren added, "Isn't it strange...name-gamewise...that
the weather station for West Newton is nearby Mount
Pleasant, Pa.?"
(Editor's Comment:  Not strange at all, if you know about
that mountain's unusual past.  For more on Mount Pleasant,
see the feature story in this issue.)
      In North Carolina, "human bones found in Fayetteville
could belong to a Fort Bragg soldier missing for more than
a decade."
      "The remains were found Wednesday," April 7, 2004,
"in the backyard of a home on Catalpa Road."
      "Police want to know if the bones belong to Sgt.
Terry Lee Webb.  He has been missing since 1991."
      "Police hope to identify the remains later this
week."
      Another mysterious death took place in Indiana.
      "A Lafayette woman who disappeared in Montgomery
County Saturday," April 3, 2004, "was found dead Tuesday,"
April 6, 2004, "police said."
      "The body of Sabrina Commons, 32, was discovered
laying in a bean field Tuesday, said Montgomery County
Chief Deputy Bob Coudret."
      "The cause of death has not been determined, and foul
play has not been ruled out, he said."
      "Commons, 32, had been missing since Saturday, the
day police found her abandoned sports utility vehicle in
the ditch at the end of a dead-end county road just
outside Darlington (population 854), about 20 miles (32
kilometers) south of Lafayette.  Her body was found more
than a mile from her car."
      "Investigators, with the help of a K-9 unit, spent
four days searching for Commons, police said."
      "Several witnesses reported seeing a woman matching
her description walking away from the search party,
Coudret said.  He said police believe she was apparently
trying to avoid being found."
      "Footprints and cigarettes police say belonged to
Commons seemed to match that theory, he said."
      "Commons had two children, a son, 7, and a daughter,
3.  They are staying with a relative, Coudret said."  (See
the Kittaning, Pa. Leader-Times for April 5, 2004,
"Fayette accident kills teen, hurts man;" the Pittsburgh
Channel for April 8, 2004, "Iraq war hero suspected in
Fayette fire;" the Pittsburgh Channel for April 6, 2004,
"Driver hurt by rock thrown from Fayette County overpass;"
WRAL-TV News from North Carolina for April 5, 2004,
"Fayetteville bones could be missing soldier;" and the
Washington, Ind. Times-Herald for April 8, 2004, "Police
find the body of missing Lafayette woman."  Many thanks to
Loren Coleman for these news stories.)


UFOs SIGHTED NEAR THE
VANDENBERG AIR BASE

      Three UFOs, described as "three white, dim, circular,
fast-moving crafts," were seen Wednesday night, March 24,
2004, over Porterville, California (population 39,615),
about 120 miles (200 kilometers) northeast of Vandenberg
Air Force Base.
      "They moved like nothing I had ever seen before," the
witness reported, "They were three low-flying white
objects, dim in brightness, flying eastwards very fast.
No sound.  Two of them continued east and one broke out of
formation and banked south in a fast, impossible 90-degree
turn.  I've never seen anything like it.  I'm very excited
about it."
      Earlier the same evening, at 6:04 p.m., in Moorpark,
California (population 31,415), 90 miles (144 kilometers)
east of Vandenberg, witnesses reported, "We were looking
out our window. All of a sudden, five bright dots, not
blinking, came blasting through the sky in a linear
formation.  Also, the objects left a trail of yellow that
faded away in seconds and also, for some reason, made my
lamps blink a few times as they passed over."
      A week later, on Wednesday, March 31, 2004, an
unusual event was reported at Vandenberg Air Force Base.
      "The U.S. Air Force delayed the launch of an unarmed
Minuteman III intercontinental ballistic missile due to a
malfunction, base officials said."
      "The missile was scheduled to be launched from the
base between 12:01 a.m. and 6:01 a.m. on Wednesday but was
delayed indefinitely at 2:55 a.m. when officials
discovered the problem."
      "The missile was to take about 30 minutes to reach
the Kwajalein Missile Range in the Marshall Islands, about
4,200 miles (6,720 kilometers) away.  The Air Force
routinely test-launches the nearly 60-foot (18-meter)
missile to assess the performance and reliability, as part
of the Force Deployment Evaluation Program."
(See the San Diego Times-Union for April 4, 2004.  Many
thanks to Daniel Wilson for the newspaper article and the
UFO reports.)


RED UFO SEEN OVER
LOUISVILLE, KENTUCKY

      On Thursday, April 1, 2004, at 11 p.m., eyewitness
L.B. reported, "I saw a red spot in the western sky that
wasn't moving.  It approached from the west, over the Ohio
River, in Louisville, Kentucky (population 256,231).
After focusing on it for about 30 seconds, it immediately
descended out of sight of the building at a rate of speed
too fast to determine."
      "It wasn't an airplane or a comet, and was too small
to make out a shape except to say a dot-like shape, non-
blinking, just motionless--still in the sky."
      "It was stable in the sky when first sighted; then
departed with extreme rapid descent unlike any speed known
to me."  (Email Form Report)


SOLITARY UFO SIGHTED IN
ELK CITY, OKLAHOMA

      Eyewitness Joseph Bottone reported: "On the evening
of (Friday) March 12, 2004, I looked up into the dark sky
as I got out of my car and pulled my keys out of my pocket
to enter my room.  As my eyes got used to the light, I
noticed what I thought was a satellite streaking slowly
through the sky to the south."
      "As I was looking at this, it suddenly shot off like
a bullet with a large curve towards the west.  I felt as
if I was going to faint as my mind could not believe my
eyes."
      "This was no dream, and, as I said to myself, 'Oh, my
God!' it dawned on me that I saw an anomaly I will never
forget.  I felt honored to see such a thing.  I thought
later that it seemed like the bright object noticed I saw
it, and it somehow then decided to 'take off.'  But how it
knew I was looking at it is a mystery as the object must
have been as high as the average satellite.  It also
seemed to want me to see it or maybe I 'sensed it' and
found it somehow telepathically.  This all happened in
beautiful Elk City (population 10,510) in Oklahoma."  (See
the Elk City, Okla. Daily News for April 5, 2004, Letters
to the Editor.  Many thanks to Jim Hickman for this
newspaper article.  Be sure to visit Jim's Web site at
this URL: www.thehickmanreport.com.)


NIGHT SAUCER SEEN IN
STONY PLAIN, ALBERTA

      On Monday, April 5, 2004, at 10:30 p.m., the
eyewitness, Mr. Hailburg, "spotted a UFO coming in" to
Stony Plain, Alberta province, Canada (population 8,274),
a suburb about 20 miles (32 kilometers) west of Edmonton.
      "It was coming from the west," he reported, "It was
about 10:30 p.m., and I went outside and started to shoot
a tennis ball in my backyard with my dog.  Then I glanced
up in a westerly direction and noticed this odd, ship-like
thing.  It had three lights--one red, one green and the
other white.  But the object all of a sudden turned on
this really bright white light, and it looked like just a
flying, glowing white ball.  Now, it came in from the west
and probably came as far as Main Street.  It then began
shifting left and right, probably about 100 meters (330
feet) north and then about 100 meters left (south--J.T.).
It did this a few consecutive times."
      "It then turned off the really bright white light,
and I saw only the three lights--red, green and white, and
it was just hovering there for about 30 seconds.  It then
turned on the really bright white light again and flew up
really high, about 30 meters (100 feet) in a diagonal
direction.  It then turned off the light and sped away
really fast, off to the south, and it vanished.  It didn't
make a sound."  (Email Form Report)


UFO CAUGHT BY CAMERA IN
MAR DE AJO, ARGENTINA

      On Sunday, March 28, 2004, ufologist Ruben Mansilla
reported, "There was an event here in Mar de Ajo" in
Argentina.  "A local resident named Roberto Garcia took
some photos with his digital camera and left them at the
camera store."
      When the images were printed out, they showed a
daylight disc in the partly cloudy Argentinean skies.
"Upon doing so, my friend called me (Mansilla) immediately
since he knows of my interest in these things."  (See the
magazine El Dragon Invisible of Argentina for March 29,
2004.  Muchas gracias a Scott Corrales, Carlos Iurchuk and
Guillermo Gimenez para esto informe.)


NEW CATTLE MUTILATION
REPORTED IN ARGENTINA

      "The legend of the infamous Chupacabra has appeared
once more in Entre Rios," a province in northern
Argentina, "and in a town close to our city, San Benito."
      "Police sources said yesterday that last Saturday
(April 3, 2004), the sheriff's office of a neighboring
community was visited by a farmer from a rural area who
identified himself as Emilio Fernandez Kint, 59, who
stated that on that day he had noticed that one of his
animals was missing.  Immediately he went in search of the
stray bovine and found it laying in a thicket."
      "Upon approaching to see what was wrong, he found
that the animal was missing a left eye and the hide and
flesh in a 5-centimeter (2-inch) circle around its belly.
What startled the farmer the most was the absence of blood
on the soil or anywhere in the vicinity."
      "Kint stated that he called a private veterinarian
who visited the site and attested to the missing organs,
but who otherwise was unable to offer an explanation for
the animal's death."
      "During his exposition, the farmer also noted that a
few nights ago he had seen strange lights in the night
sky, precisely over the place where he had found the
animal."
      "He added that not far from there he found a large
circle of flattened grass whose cause was unknown."  (See
the Argentinean newspaper El Diario de Parana for April 7,
2004, "Is Chupacabra on the prowl again?"  Muchas gracias
a Scott Corrales y Gloria Coluchi para esto articulo de
diario.)


LARGE GREEN UFO SEEN BY
VILLAGERS IN VENEZUELA

      On Monday, March 8, 2004, "a large intensely luminous
green object, with blue 'windows or portholes' along the
side, was seen flying over San Antonio de los Andes" in
Venezuela's state of Miranda.
      "People living in the barrio Urbanizacion Los
Castores" in San Antonio de los Andes, located about 600
kilometers (360 miles) southwest of Caracas, the national
capital, "saw a strange green light streaming through
their windows.  Curious about the phenomenon, they ran
outdoors.  Once they got outside, they saw the green UFO
crossing the night sky overhead.  The sighting lasted for
several minutes" before the object disappeared over the
Cordillera de Merida."  (Muchas gracias a Hector Arturo
Escalante y Proyecto Orion para esto informe.)


CROP CIRCLES REPORTED
IN QUEENSLAND

      "Residents of the small town of Conondale, west of
Maleny" in Australia's state of Queensland, "say they are
baffled by large areas of flattened grass."
      "Crop circle enthusiast Chris White gave the complex
drawings an 8 out of 10."
      "'You can't imagine anyone faking these because the
seed beds would be broken, and it doesn't look like it's
been trampled or crushed.'"
      "'There are people in England who set out to do a
hoax...but even they couldn't fake it.  This definitely
looks like the real thing."
      "Retired teacher Kate Dash visited the circles on
Ahern Road and said she doesn't believe the pattern was
man-made."
      "'I've been to England to study crop circles for the
last five years,' Mrs. Dash said, 'This looks authentic to
me.  The way the grass has been flattened is amazing and
would be almost impossible to do as the patterns are
beautifully symmetried.'"
      "Both crop circle enthusiasts (cerealogists in the
USA and Canada--J.T.) said they had nothing to do with
making the circles, which are generally associated with
UFOs."
      "But the property's owner, who does not want to be
named, said there was a much simpler explanation for crop
circles."
      "'It's the wind creating a whirly-whirly (dust devil
in the USA--J.T.).  It spins around in the long grass and
creates the circle,' he said."  (See the Australian
newspaper The Sunday Mail for April 4, 2004, "In a whirl
over crop circles."  Many thanks to Robert Fischer for
this newspaper article.)



 From the UFO Files...

1784: STRANGE SECRETS OF
           FAYETTE COUNTY, PA.

      The Fayette Factor is running in high gear these
days, and no place has reported more strange, odd and
downright bizarre incidents than Fayette County,
Pennsylvania.  Stone-throwing poltergeists, mysterious
fires, impossible accidents--the list is endless.
      Indeed, this region south of Pittsburgh is well on
its way to becoming the paranormal capital of
Pennsylvania.
      Is there anything in the county's past that might
explain this sudden outburst of oddities today?
      Winding its way through the county is the Monongahela
River, which means the river with the sliding banks in
Ontouagannha or Shawnee Indian.
      Christopher Gist (1706-1759) was the first man of
European descent to set foot on the banks of the
Monongahela.  Gist was what was then called a "long
hunter," a back-country trapper and wanderer.  Later
generations of Americans referred to such people as
"mountain men," and they wrote many a chapter of
the USA's early history.
      When Gist arrived, he found the Monongahela valley
populated by an extraordinary blend of Native American
tribes.  There were Ontouagannha, Miami, Wyandotte,
Mohican and the Ottawa, who had come down from the
Great Lakes.
(Editor's Note: The Ottawa are a branch of Tackanash's
Anishinabe people.  "Ottawa" is a corruption of the
Anishinabe word Odahwaug meaning trading people.)
      "Native American folklore will tell you what
happened," UFO Roundup editor Joseph Trainor explained,
"It just doesn't tell you when it happened.  If I had to
guess, I'd say the migration into the valley happened
sometime after 800 A.D., which was the end of the
Hopewell-Adena civilization along the Ohio River."
      David Cusick, a Seneca author, mentions in his book a
"golden empire of Twakanah," which he says flourished
along the Mississippi and Ohio Rivers.  No one knows why
"Twakanah" collapsed, but Cusick mentions that the tribes
migrated to the east after the "emperor's" demise.
      Anthropologists have noted that most of the Native
American tribes that entered the valley came from the
west, the exception being the Ottawa.
      Although the various tribes had differing traditions,
all are in agreement about one particular legend--the
story of Ponki.
      According to the Ontouagannha legend, Ponki was
already living in the area when their ancestors arrived.
He was "an old sorcerer-hermit who had long terrorized the
Indians," exacting tribute from them, insisting that they
hand over young men and women for his strange rituals.
Ponki was a jossekeed (Anishinabe for necromancer or
medicine man; what we call today a spiritual advisor --
J.T.)
      Like any practicing jossekeed, Ponki had a "sacred
festival grounds," always located at the top of a hill or
mountain.  Here he would raise the wooden festival pole
and light the Sacred Central Fire and summon the
discarnate entities.  Ponki's "fire mountain" was Mount
Pleasant, located 10 miles (16 kilometers) north of
Connellsville, Pa.
      However, Ponki came to a bad end.  "Eventually he was
killed, his body was burned, and the ashes were cast to
the winds.  The ashes, according to the story, were
transformed into minute living things (gnats or noseeums,
as we call them here in Minnesota--J.T.)" that infested
the swamps along the Monongahela.
      Mount Pleasant also found a place in a more recent
paranormal saga.  In December 1965, an acorn-shaped UFO
plummeted out of the night sky and hit the ground in
Kecksburg, Pa.  Mount Pleasant is only 3 miles (5
kilometers) south of Kecksburg, "the second Roswell."
      Fayette County's next link with the paranormal had
its origins half a world away, in Geneva, Switzerland.
Here, on January 29, 1761, Sophie Albertine Rolaz du Rosey
gave birth to a baby boy.  Her husband, Jean de Gallatin,
a local merchant, named him Abraham Alfonse Albert.
     Although permitted to call himself a noble, and to use
the coveted de as a prefix for his surname, Jean de
Gallatin was not a wealthy man.  His family was Italian;
the original surname was Gallatini; and they lived in the
Varzo region of Italy, north of Lago Maggiore, before
moving to Geneva.
      Albert, as he preferred to be called, was a
precocious boy.  But in 1770, tragedy struck when both of
his parents died.  At age nine, Albert was placed in the
custody of a spinster aunt, Catherine de Pictet.
      Meanwhile, 375 kilometers (225 miles) to the north,
in Ingolstadt, a city of the independent kingdom of
Bavaria (southern Germany--J.T.), a renegade Jesuit named
Adam Weishaupt was laying the foundations for a worldwide
secret society that would bring about "the New World
Order."
      In 1774, Mlle. de Pictet enrolled her 13-year-old
nephew in the prestigious Academy of Geneva "where his
precocious intelligence brought him to the attention of
such renowned scholars as the historian Johannes von
Muller, the physicist George-Louis Le Sage and the
naturalist Horace Benedict de Saussure."
(Editor's Note: Von Muller was one of Weishaupt's earliest
Swiss converts, joining the Order of the Illuminati in
1778.)
      "In 1780, a year after graduating from the academy,
Gallatin slipped out of Geneva on a pretext and ran away
to America.  Henry Adams, his first biographer, believed
that young Gallatin, inspired by the Declaration of
Independence, wanted to escape the stifling conservatism
of upper-class Geneva."
      Albert's second biographer, Henry Williams Jr.,
believed that "Gallatin had discovered that his
inheritance barely covered the expenses of his education,
and he could not bear the thought of relying on his family
connections to find employment."
      However, both Adams and Williams overlooked an
important event that took place in 1780.  Weishaupt's
Swiss disciples, now called the Illuminati, attempted to
seize power and make Geneva the capital of their
"Universal Republic."  But the uprising failed, and other
European nations sent troops to occupy the city.
      An American who lived through this uprising was
Benjamin Franklin Bache, nickname Benny, a few years
younger than Albert Gallatin.  Young Ben was the grandson
of Dr. Benjamin Franklin by his daughter Sarah and was
enrolled in Dr. Cramer's School for Young Gentlemen.  His
granddad was then serving as the USA's ambassador to
France.
      It was all pretty exciting for Benny Bache and his
classmates.  The streets of Geneva were filled with
soldiers from France, Spain, Sardinia, Savoia (now
northern Italy--J.T.), Austria-Hungary, plus Prussia,
Bavaria, Hesse-Anhalt and some other German
principalities.  The boys used to sneak out after dark,
freely violate the curfew, pelt solitary sentries with
vegetables, run and hide from the military police and then
top off the evening making the rounds of the city's
hottest dance clubs.  Think Animal House in the Eighteenth
Century.
      But if the occupation was fun for Benny, it was a
deadly serious affair for Albert Gallatin and his friends,
Jean Savary de Valcoulon and Jean Badollet.  Using an army
of informers, the coalition's military police began
arresting and imprisoning members of the Illuminati.
Which may explain Albert's sudden desire to leave
Switzerland.
      Albert arrived in Boston in July 1780.  He found the
people "dispiritingly provincial" and considered the
American Revolution "a tragic mistake."  He thought the
"revolution" of the Sons of Liberty fell far short of the
society-wide upheaval favored by Adam Weishaupt, Adolf
Freiherr (Baron) von Knigge, Anacharsis Clootz and other
leaders of the Illuminati.  To make matters worse,
Boston's "narrow-minded residents refused to buy a
shipment of tea on which he had expected to turn a large
profit."
      With bankruptcy staring him in the face, Albert "sank
his remaining capital in a wagonload of sugar, tobacco and
rum and went up to Machias, Maine, where he spent the next
year dickering with the local Indians and a handful of
American soldiers stationed nearby."
(Editor's Note:  At that time, Maine was a part of
Massachusetts.  It broke away and became a separate state
in 1820.)
      While living in Maine, Albert heard for the first
time the legend of the sorcerer Ponki from the
Passamaquoddy indigenous people.  Like the rest of the
Illuminati, he had an interest in esoteric subjects and
probably asked where Ponki had once lived.  "South of Fort
Pitt (now Pittsburgh--J.T.)," the Indians told him, "The
winding river called the Monongahela."
      "In October 1781, having barely broken even, Gallatin
returned to Boston and struggled to make ends meet by
giving French lessons to Harvard students."
      In 1783, his old school friend and fellow
Illuminatus, Jean Savary de Valcoulon, reentered Albert's
life.  Like another Illuminatus, Charles-Maurice de
Talleyrand-Perigord (better known as Talleyrand, who
became Napoleon's foreign minister--J.T.), Savary had gone
into the land speculation business.  Albert suggested the
Monongahela valley as an ideal spot for development, and,
in July 1783, the two men boarded a schooner bound for
Baltimore.
      "Gallatin leased a farm near" the Monongahela's
"confluence with George's Creek in Fayette County,
Pennsylvania."  There he built a store and a post office.
But the pioneer life was hard.  "After the sudden death of
his wife Sophie Allegre in the autumn of 1789--they had
been married only a matter of months--he grew so depressed
that for a long time he would not go outside or even put
on clothes."
      Two things turned Albert's fortunes around.  The
first was the arrival of another friend and Geneva
Illuminatus, Jean Badollet, with news of the French
Revolution.
The second was Albert's purchase of a 400-acre tract
overlooking the river, which he named Friendship Hill.
(Editor's Comment:  It's possible that Albert confused
Friendship Hill with Mount Pleasant, Ponki's "sacred fire
mountain.")
      Soon the settlement became known as New Geneva.
Illuminati who had been hunted men in Switzerland found
refuge there.  Albert used the skills of Swiss and Italian
refugees to establish the first glass factory west of the
Alleghenies.  On Ferry Street, in 1796, a combination
hotel, tavern and Illuminist lodge, Harmony Hall, was
built.
      Initiates of the Columbian Lodge in New York City
soon took notice of the Illuminati enclave in southwestern
Pennsylvania.  Savary introduced Albert to Marinus
Willett, Billy Van Ness and other Illuminati of "the
Albany Regency," an event which launched Albert's career
in American politics.
(Editor's Note:  When it comes to black magick, Marinus
Willett could easily hold his own with Jean-Baptiste
Willermoz and old man Weishaupt himself.)
      In 1790, Albert was elected as a state representative
from Fayette County.  After that, his rise was meteoric.
He served as Secretary of the Treasury under the USA's
third president, Thomas Jefferson, and fourth president,
James Madison.
He died on August 13, 1849 at his home, Friendship Hill.
      As for Mount Pleasant, that spot, too, has a strange
history.  "An inn was established there in 1793; the place
became a relay stop on the Baltimore and Pittsburgh Pike"
for cross-country stagecoaches "and attracted a roistering
lot," including quite a few residents of New Geneva.  "In
the face of this, the influence of the (Presbyterian)
church waned, and the settlement became known as
'Helltown.'"
      That curious name has your editor wondering just how
far back those paranormal events actually go.  (See
Pennsylvania: A Guide to the Keystone State, University of
Pennsylvania, 1940, pages 568 to 575; Life of Albert
Gallatin by Henry Adams, 1879; and Albert Gallatin:
Jeffersonian Financier and Diplomat by Henry Williams Jr.,
1957.)

      Well, that's it for this week.  Join us next time for
more UFO, Fortean and paranormal news from around the
planet Earth, brought to you by "the paper that goes home-
-UFO Roundup."  See you then.

UFO ROUNDUP: Copyright 2004 by Masinaigan Productions, all
rights reserved.  Readers may post news items from UFO
Roundup on their Web sites or in news groups provided that
they credit the newsletter and its editor by name and list
the date of issue in which the item first appeared.

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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   Apr > Apr 13

                    Letter From Betty Hill To Velikovsky

From: Terry W. Colvin <fortean1.nul>
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 10:17:20 -0700
Fwd Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 22:19:53 -0400
Subject: Letter From Betty Hill To Velikovsky



953 State Street
Portsmouth, N.H.
March 9, 1968

Dear Dr. Velikovsky,

Since 1950 I thought that some day I would write to you, for at
that time I discovered your "Worlds in Collision." At that first
reading, my emotional experience was one of shock, but I
accepted your theories quickly, for they answered many of my own
questions: If man has been in existence for so many ages, where
has he been and what has he been doing? These theories helped me
to solve this riddle.

Also it seemed to me that mankind has a fear of the world coming
to an end. My father told me that when he was a young boy he saw
Halley's comet, but the thing that surprised him was the
reaction of the people in the small country town in which he
lived. Some people went up the highest hill in the area and
prayed to be saved. Others went to bed and stayed there waiting
for "the end." Many crowded into churches. My grandfather, who
was a school teacher, went among the people and told them that
their fears were only superstitions.

Today we find many people who are afraid of watching the skies.
They tell us that they never look up; several months ago some
atmospheric tests were done which created large moon-size
"lights" in the sky. Although many people watched them, others
refused to look and hurried to their homes.

Your "Worlds in Collision" had the most profound effect on me of
any book I have ever read. Almost daily something will occur in
my life that reminds me of some part of this. Also in later
years, it has been a source of strength to me, in that you
"dared" to differ with the popular thinking of the times. Since
my husband and I had our experience in 1961=97we are the subjects
of the book, "The Interrupted Journey," published by Dell =97 I
have questioned every scientist we have met about your book. It
makes my task easy now that your paperback is on the market.
Five years ago I had difficulty finding anyone who was
acquainted with this, but now everyone is reading this. So I
have been having fun with many of the scientific community, in
the hopes that I might stimulate some of their thinking. Several
have met you, or have attended your lectures. And some have
asked me why I defend your thinking, when they know that you do
not believe in UFOs, which actually has no bearing on your
theories.

I do not know if you are acquainted with our book or not; or
your opinions about this. And it is not important really. You
might be interested in knowing that on our trip, we visited an
area called the Devonian Sea area and picked up some fossils.
When we had our experience, they were on the front seat of the
car, and we wonder if any interest was shown in them.

Another purpose of writing is to acquaint you with the works of
Charles Hapgood, if he is not known to you now. He teaches at
Keene Teachers College in N.H., but he is known for his research
of maps. He is the author of "Maps of the Ancient Sea Kings,"
published by Chilton Books. His theory is that an advanced
civilization existed thousands of years ago that was almost as
advanced as ours today=97as evidenced by their superior methods of
mapmaking and that they mapped all the continents including the
Antarctic when it was still free of ice; and that this advanced
civilization was suddenly destroyed. This is another book I
recommend to our scientists.

Recently we were filmed by British Broadcasting for a
documentary. At that time I introduced the producer to your
books and also Charles Hapgood's. He seemed very interested, but
of course, we can not predict their decision, but it is my
personal opinion that it would be a tremendous documentary.

Today I completed reading "Earth in Upheaval" and now I am
seeking "Ages in Chaos," but I assume this is not in paperback
yet.

We receive tons of letters from students requesting reading
suggestions about UFOs, so I always include your books on the
basis that one must understand the past in order to understand
the future. Undoubtedly classrooms are being upset all over the
country, by these two controversies.

In conclusion, I thank you for broadening my thinking and making
new ideas more acceptable.


Sincerely,

Betty Hill


--
"Only a zit on the wart on the heinie of progress." Copyright
1992, Frank Rice


Terry W. Colvin, Sierra Vista, Arizona (USA) < fortean1.nul >
     Alternate: < fortean1.nul >
Home Page: < http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Stargate/8958/index.html >
Sites: * Fortean Times * Mystic's Haven * TLCB *
      U.S. Message Text Formatting (USMTF) Program
------------
Member: Thailand-Laos-Cambodia Brotherhood (TLCB) Mailing List
   TLCB Web Site: < http://www.tlc-brotherhood.org > [Vietnam veterans,
Allies, CIA/NSA, and "steenkeen" contractors are welcome.]







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   Apr > Apr 13

             Re: Dangerous Space Rocks Under Watch - Scheldroup

From: John Scheldroup <jschel.nul>
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 19:56:07 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 22:32:56 -0400
Subject: Re: Dangerous Space Rocks Under Watch - Scheldroup


>From: Diana Cammack <cammack.nul>
>To: <UFOupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 10:51:15 -0700
>Subject: Dangerous Space Rocks Under Watch

>Source: CNN.Com

>http://www.cnn.com/2004/TECH/space/04/08/space.collision.reut/index.htmlsteroid

>April 8, 2004

>Dangerous Space Rocks Under Watch


With an impact of 2 million atomic bombs.

http://www.cnn.com/TECH/space/9803/11/asteroid/
http://meteorite.org/xf11.htm

On a brighter note NASA says:

"The miss distance is still very uncertain, and the asteroid
could easily pass well outside the Moon's orbit. The probability
of a collision in 2027 is essentially zero."

http://neo.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news017.html


And thank you NASA, now that I can sleep much better at night,
when here I was worried about my social security savings and
401k running dry when I retire, a 30 year mortgage, remodeling,
new roof, and refinancing that will take 50 to get paid. Now to
think an asteroid from outer space will take all those little
worries for me while still in my golden years.

Thanks NASA,

John Scheldroup

Are There Plans to Deal With a Potential Asteroid Strike?

http://www.universetoday.com/am/publish/question_asteroid_strike_plans.html

For a few hours on January 13, 2004, astronomers thought a 30-
meter wide asteroid might hit the Earth.

http://www.astrobio.net/news/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=8
57








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   Apr > Apr 13

                         HBCC UFO Reports - 04-13-04

From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO <hbccufo.nul>
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 23:20:22 -0700
Fwd Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 22:36:11 -0400
Subject: HBCC UFO Reports - 04-13-04


Received: April 11, 2004

Photos can be viewed at: http://www.hbccufo.com/index.php

Trail, British Columbia

Unusual Mark - Photos

I had an email from a fellow who resides in Trail, British
Columbia. He asked if I would like to see some photos of an
unusual mark he has on his back. He added his phone number in
his letter and I called the man straight away and had a nice
talk with him.

The fellow told me when he was around 9 -12 years old a large
scoop mark appeared out of nowhere at the base of his spine. The
gentleman said at that young age (9 - 12) he was literally
plagued with vivid dreams which were very real to him. When the
mark appeared out of nowhere on his back he was seen by a
physician who told them that it looked as if "someone" had taken
a chunk out of his back. The man said there was never any pain
associated with it and no scaring. The fellow explained that
there is a thin layer of skin which is covering the indentation
and nerves in his back. The nerves are sensitive to the touch.

The scoop mark focused around a very detailed dream of hearing a
strange chatter. In his vivid dream he found himself standing in
front of his father's property, which is located in the Creston,
B.C. Approximately 40 feet in front of him was a craft which was
hovering about 6 to 10 inches off of the ground. It was round
 in shape but flat on the bottom, a dull aluminum in color and
had no distinguishing markings on it. He said there was a green
glow (a vapor cloud) which surrounded the craft. It made no
sound but he did feel an odd vibration the craft emitted. (His
example was, if you took your hand and placed it on running
equipment and felt the vibrations from it) He didn't find all of
this disturbing at all. The fellow never saw any kind of
creatures of any sort.

Also the man was in a state of paralyses and all the time
hearing this strange chattering sound. He went on to say that he
eventually work up laying on the floor in a pile of laundry and
to find his socks were wet from what he believed was from the
morning dew outside. There were also was small twigs and a
little soil laying about the floor. The fellow told me he is
still wondering what actually happened that night many years
ago. Also he wanted me to know that this was a one time
experience.

Thank you to the person for the report and photos. More photos
are being taken and will be sent along to me.

---

HBCC UFO is looking into both of the reports.

Williams Lake, British Columbia

Date: April 10, 2004
Time: Approx: 11:30 p.m.

I took a call from a witness who resides in Williams Lake, B.C.
who reported seeing a large orange shaped object sitting
stationary at a distance and close to the tops of the trees. The
object was visible for approx:1 minutes, it then broke into two
orange colored lights and disappeared very quickly. The object
was seen in the southwest. No sudden moments were noted, no
sound was heard. There were also clear skies that night.

Thank you to the witness for the report.

-----

Williams Lake, British Columbia

Date: April 10, 2004
Time: Approx: 11:10 p.m.

Another witness called to file a report, the person said they
watched an extremely large bright white light in the south west
portion of the sky. They reported the object as being larger
than any planet seen in the night sky and much brighter. Again
the object sat low in the sky over the trees in the distance. As
the husband and wife watched the object for a short period of
time, it just up and vanished. They said the object was visible
for approx: two minutes. The witnesses told me that there was a
mountain behind the object so they knew it hadn't dropped down
behind the back of it. They did say it was a strange sight.

Thank you to the witnesses for the report.

----

Plantagent, Ontario

Date: June 16, 2001
Time: 11:45 p.m.

Location of Sighting: Plantagent, Ontario hwy.17 about 8kms from
Alfred

Shape of objects: circler about 60 feet in diameter and it was
black

Full Description of event/sighting: I was coming back from
Ottawa, Ontario. and it was raining real hard traffic both ways
(lots of traffic) I was going up Plantagent Hill,about 45
degrees angle or little less. the car at that point started to
chug a little, you know like missing or something like that.

Before I hit the top of the hill, I have a habit of bending
forward and hugging my steering wheel, saying something like
come-on baby you got to get me home, in witch it wasn't very
far,about 3 or 4 kms. and that's when I seen it, if I didn't
bend over I don't think I would have seen it about 60 feet in
diameter,and real black looking, hovering over a tree, I could
have hit it with a rock very easy if I stop the car. but I
wanted to get it home I thought then I was starting to have
problems with the car, oh yes and it had two big stadium lights
on it. One at each end, but they weren't on though, I thought
after if they were on they might have blinded everybody on the
road booth ways. But when started to get closer to home the car
sounded all right after, maybe it was the EM affects from the
saucer, that was interfering with my electrical system.

Thank you to the witness for the report.

---

Hamilton, Ontario

Date: Nov--Feb? 1977
Time: 17:30-20:00

Number of witnesses: 2
Number of objects: 1
Shape of objects: round or circular
Full Description of event/sighting:

I was 9 or 10 years old when I was walking through a alley at
approx: 6 or 7:00 p.m. ( I'm sure of this time frame as it was
after dinner). As I was walking I looked up in the sky. (for no
apparent reason) I was looking at all the stars in the sky on
this clear night when I saw something that has puzzled me for
almost 30 years. I glared at an object that was approx: 500 feet
higher than the large oak trees that it had hovered and traveled
and past from the south. This object was round in shape with
lights that wrapped around it. I would have to say the size of
this object was as big as Niagara Falls in diameter and height.
As I stared in astonishment the object came to a complete stop
over the tree's.

All that was moving at this time was the lights on this thing
and my shivering body. Although I was young I new I was
witnessing something with a much greater intellect than ours. I
new even at that age, airplanes make noise. Blimps don't fly in
the dark, hot air balloons don't fly in the dark and weather
balloons don't have florescent lights. This object was
completely silent. This object also came to a complete stop
directly over me for about 2 minutes then flew over the QEW
heading over to the Burlington Skyway eventually out of my
sight. I went home shortly after to tell my family of this
encounter and was disappointed that no-one believed me. The next
day at school (BELL CARIN)I told a couple of class mates of my
encounter and to my relief my friend had said he saw the same
thing while he was sitting in his tree fort.

I often wonder about that night and have thought about
undergoing hypnosis to narrow down the exact date and time so I
can go to the Hamilton to see if there was other reports of this
sighting. I know there has to be other witnesses from the
vehicles on the highway that would have seen this.

Thank you to the witness for the report.


Brian Vike
Director HBCC UFO Research
Home - Phone 250 845 2189
email: hbccufo.nul
Website: http://www.hbccufo.com







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   Apr > Apr 14

              Spacecraft To Measure Earth's Drag On Space-Time

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 07:37:07 -0700
Fwd Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 23:23:15 -0400
Subject: Spacecraft To Measure Earth's Drag On Space-Time


Source: Newscientist.com

http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99994875

04-13-04

Spacecraft To Measure Earth's Drag On Space-Time

A spacecraft set to test Einstein's General Theory of Relativity
is now on the launch pad, with the world's most accurate
gyroscopes stowed away inside.

NASA has a launch window of just one second early on 19 April to
launch Gravity Probe B into a polar orbit precisely aligned with
a reference star. Any delay will mean waiting another day.

The gyros, a million times more accurate than the best on Earth,
will measure how the rotating Earth drags on the fabric of
space-time. "I expect this experiment is going to be in all the
science books," says Anne Kinney, director of NASA's
astronomy/physics division.

The mission is already has one record, as the space mission that
has taken the longest to get off the ground - NASA first funded
it in March 1964.


Atomic clock

General relativity is a cornerstone of modern physics and holds
that gravity warps the fabric of space and time. Observations
during a 1919 solar eclipse confirmed that the Sun's gravity
bent starlight by warping space.

A 1976 NASA mission called Gravity Probe A - related only by
name - sent an atomic clock 10,000 kilometres into space,
confirming the theory's prediction that gravity slows the flow
of time.

Gravity Probe B aims to measure a weaker and even stranger
effect called "frame dragging", a warping of space-time by the
gravity and angular momentum of a spinning body.

In principle, it is possible to measure it by monitoring the
spin axis of a gyroscope orbiting the Earth. The axis should
change its orientation relative to that of a distant star.

Once we can measure the effect in the Solar System, says Kip
Thorne, a gravitational physicist at the California Institute of
Technology, "we can definitely understand how the same phenomena
are working in the distant Universe and around black holes,"
which cause much stronger warping.


Simple experiment

"It's hard to imagine a simpler experiment," says Francis
Everitt, Gravity Probe B's principal investigator at Stanford
University. The difficult part is making gyroscopes with the
extraordinary precision needed to measure changes of just 0.041
arcsecond a year while in a polar orbit 640 km above the Earth.

The probe should measure frame-dragging to within one per cent.
It also will measure a much larger space-warping effect called
the geodetic effect to one part in 10,000, the most precise test
yet of any relativistic effect.

To meet these exacting requirements, Gravity Probe B contains
four spinning balls of fused quartz, each perfectly spherical to
within 40 atomic layers. Each one is coated with a 1.27-
micrometre layer of niobium, and cooled to 1.8 degrees above
absolute zero to keep the metal film superconducting.

The superconducting layer creates a tiny magnetic field that
pinpoints the axis of the spinning sphere. The experiment
therefore requires shielding that reduces the strength of
external magnetic fields by a factor of a trillion, electric
fields to suspend the spinning spheres, and 2441 litres of
superfluid helium coolant.

The technical challenges had appeared so severe that NASA tried
to cancel the project several times, only to have scientists
rescue it by lobbying the US Congress. The experiment will have
cost $700 million when the data is in and finally analysed.

The launch had been planned for 17 April, but the latest in a
long series of minor technical glitches forced a delay. However,
sitting atop a Delta rocket and 46 metres off the ground,
Gravity Probe B is now closer to space than it has ever been
before.


Jeff Hecht










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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   Apr > Apr 14

             Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers - Shell

From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 09:18:13 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 23:27:55 -0400
Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers - Shell


>From: Joachim Koch <lists.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 14:41:28 +0100
>Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers

>It was all deliberately planned. Is this so difficult to
>recognize?

I don't know. I think it's difficult to draw any solid
conclusions by guessing at other people's possible motives. I do
get suspicious about the odd connections between the Alien
Autopsy footage and the Philip Corso book, which should be two
completely separate things. But I don't know what to make of it.

The whole six-fingers notion, for instance. I don't recall
anywhere else in the popular literature where aliens are
mentioned as having six fingers. And then suddenly in the course
of a couple years, two things pop up that have that detail.
That, to me, has a strong disinformation stink about it. But
what is being disinformed? The film, or the book? Was the book
created to keep us barking up the wrong tree? The tree offered
by the AA?

The alien(s) itself is problematic. Why is it so obviously
"wrong?" It vaguely resembles a Steven Spielberg alien, but only
vaguely. Someone familiar enough with the UFO literature would
know that their alien doesn't match any of the descriptions of
the Roswell aliens, which are generally described as much more
human-like. It's not human enough to match the descriptions of
the contactees of the 1950's. It doesn't really match the Betty
and Barney Hill descriptions. It doesn't exactly match anything.
Why? It would be simple enough to create an accurate "Grey,"
using the descriptions and drawings in Bud Hopkins's book. If
the film was actually created as a propaganda tool in the late
1940's or early 1950's, the alien in it pre-dates any known
description of an alien of that general type. Around that time,
the aliens were a lot more scary. Like in the George Pal's "War
of the Worlds." The Alien Autopsy aliens look sad and weak and
not a threat at all.

Anyway, if the goal was to deliberately mislead us, why make it
so easy for us to dismiss the film? Or the Corso book? I can't
figure that out. It makes me start to wonder, in reverse, that
if one was created to discredit the other, was it because we're
barking up the RIGHT tree? That becomes another possibility. So
I'm back to not knowing anything again.

Well, I do know something. I know that we have better and more
readily available scanning and computer imaging technology than
we did ten years ago. I know that if we had some images closer
to first generation - doubt we'd be able to get actual film -
 we'd be able to extract a lot more information from the footage
(like what the "doctor" is writing on his log sheet). Or we'd be
better able to detect the zippers. A nice, clean scan of "Harry
Truman" would be nice, too. I can dream, can't I?

I also know that part of the fun of a hoax is the big reveal.
The laughing at the suckers. This usually happens once the
hoopla has died down. It never happened with this film. Nobody's
come forward and said, "Yeah, I was the doctor." Non-disclosure
agreements only apply if there is anything of value that might
be lost in the future. Even if a film maker did sign a non-
 disclosure agreement with Santilli, it wouldn't matter unless
they expected to do more work with him. Otherwise, why would
they care? And particularly now, since to the general public the
whole thing seems to be a dead issue.

I'll still keep an eye out for it. I won't forget. But I'll try
not to be a sucker about it.








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   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   Apr > Apr 14

              Spacecraft To Measure Earth's Drag On Space-Time

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 07:37:07 -0700
Fwd Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 11:48:12 -0400
Subject: Spacecraft To Measure Earth's Drag On Space-Time


Source: Newscientist.com

http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99994875

04-13-04

Spacecraft To Measure Earth's Drag On Space-Time

A spacecraft set to test Einstein's General Theory of Relativity
is now on the launch pad, with the world's most accurate
gyroscopes stowed away inside.

NASA has a launch window of just one second early on 19 April to
launch Gravity Probe B into a polar orbit precisely aligned with
a reference star. Any delay will mean waiting another day.

The gyros, a million times more accurate than the best on Earth,
will measure how the rotating Earth drags on the fabric of
space-time. "I expect this experiment is going to be in all the
science books," says Anne Kinney, director of NASA's
astronomy/physics division.

The mission is already has one record, as the space mission that
has taken the longest to get off the ground - NASA first funded
it in March 1964.


Atomic clock

General relativity is a cornerstone of modern physics and holds
that gravity warps the fabric of space and time. Observations
during a 1919 solar eclipse confirmed that the Sun's gravity
bent starlight by warping space.

A 1976 NASA mission called Gravity Probe A - related only by
name - sent an atomic clock 10,000 kilometres into space,
confirming the theory's prediction that gravity slows the flow
of time.

Gravity Probe B aims to measure a weaker and even stranger
effect called "frame dragging", a warping of space-time by the
gravity and angular momentum of a spinning body.

In principle, it is possible to measure it by monitoring the
spin axis of a gyroscope orbiting the Earth. The axis should
change its orientation relative to that of a distant star.

Once we can measure the effect in the Solar System, says Kip
Thorne, a gravitational physicist at the California Institute of
Technology, "we can definitely understand how the same phenomena
are working in the distant Universe and around black holes,"
which cause much stronger warping.


Simple experiment

"It's hard to imagine a simpler experiment," says Francis
Everitt, Gravity Probe B's principal investigator at Stanford
University. The difficult part is making gyroscopes with the
extraordinary precision needed to measure changes of just 0.041
arcsecond a year while in a polar orbit 640 km above the Earth.

The probe should measure frame-dragging to within one per cent.
It also will measure a much larger space-warping effect called
the geodetic effect to one part in 10,000, the most precise test
yet of any relativistic effect.

To meet these exacting requirements, Gravity Probe B contains
four spinning balls of fused quartz, each perfectly spherical to
within 40 atomic layers. Each one is coated with a 1.27-
micrometre layer of niobium, and cooled to 1.8 degrees above
absolute zero to keep the metal film superconducting.

The superconducting layer creates a tiny magnetic field that
pinpoints the axis of the spinning sphere. The experiment
therefore requires shielding that reduces the strength of
external magnetic fields by a factor of a trillion, electric
fields to suspend the spinning spheres, and 2441 litres of
superfluid helium coolant.

The technical challenges had appeared so severe that NASA tried
to cancel the project several times, only to have scientists
rescue it by lobbying the US Congress. The experiment will have
cost $700 million when the data is in and finally analysed.

The launch had been planned for 17 April, but the latest in a
long series of minor technical glitches forced a delay. However,
sitting atop a Delta rocket and 46 metres off the ground,
Gravity Probe B is now closer to space than it has ever been
before.


Jeff Hecht









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   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   Apr > Apr 14

                          Secrecy News -- 04/14/04

From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood.nul>
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 11:14:54 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 12:18:29 -0400
Subject: Secrecy News -- 04/14/04


SECRECY NEWS
from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy
Volume 2004, Issue No. 36
April 14, 2004


**      THREE MILE ISLAND RECORD DECLASSIFICATION SOUGHT
**      CRS ON THE ROBUST NUCLEAR EARTH PENETRATOR
**      DOE RELEASES SUPPRESSED CRITIQUE OF NUCLEAR PROGRAMS
**      NRDC VIEWS THE NUCLEAR WEAPONS COMPLEX
**      PRICE OF NUCLEAR SECRETS PLUMMETING [SATIRE]


THREE MILE ISLAND RECORD DECLASSIFICATION SOUGHT

Rep. Edward J. Markey is pressing government agencies for full
and immediate declassification of all records concerning the
March 28, 1979 nuclear power plant accident at Three Mile Island
(TMI) now that the 25th anniversary of the event has passed.

"It is in the public interest to disclose all documents related
to TMI," wrote Rep. Markey (D-MA) in a letter to the Nuclear
Regulatory Commission last week.

"Numerous members of the communities living near TMI have been
attempting to obtain these documents for years in order to
ascertain additional details regarding the radiation levels they
may have been exposed to," he wrote.

Under the provisions of the prevailing executive order on
national security classification, Rep. Markey noted, there are
only limited exemptions that would permit the withholding of 25
year old information and these appear to be inapplicable to the
TMI case.

Given the safety and security changes that have taken place
since the TMI accident, he wrote, "there should be no national
or homeland security risk in disclosing any previously
classified materials regarding the cause of an accident that
occurred 25 years ago."

See Rep. Markey's April 9 letter to the NRC here:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/2004/04/markey040904.pdf

He sent similar letters to the Department of Energy and the
Environmental Protection Agency.


CRS ON THE ROBUST NUCLEAR EARTH PENETRATOR

A new report from the Congressional Research Service (CRS)
provides an update on the pursuit of a new nuclear weapons
concept, the Robust Nuclear Earth Penetrator (RNEP).

"RNEP is controversial.  Supporters argue that it is needed to
attack hard and deeply buried targets (such as leadership
bunkers or WMD production facilities) in countries of concern,
thereby deterring or defeating challenges from such nations;
critics assert that RNEP would lower the threshold for use of
nuclear weapons and prompt other nations to develop nuclear
weapons to deter U.S. attack," according to the CRS report.

See "Robust Nuclear Earth Penetrator Budget Request and Plan,
FY2005-FY2009" by Jonathan Medalia, Congressional Research
Service, April 9:

http://www.fas.org/spp/starwars/crs/RL32347.pdf

Direct public access to CRS reports like this one is not
authorized by the U.S. Congress.


DOE RELEASES SUPPRESSED CRITIQUE OF NUCLEAR PROGRAM

An internal critique of the Department of Energy's nuclear
weapons stockpile stewardship program was released recently
after being withheld for two years on grounds that it was
considered "For Official Use Only."

The March 2002 report of the National Nuclear Security
Administration (NNSA) Advisory Committee was finally released
last month under the Freedom of Information Act to reporter
David Ruppe of Global Security Newswire.

The Department of Energy terminated the NNSA Advisory Committee
last year, prompting complaints from Rep. Edward Markey and
others that the move diminished independent review of DOE
programs.

The report was analyzed in "Energy Department Releases Nuclear
Policy Critique" by David Ruppe, Global Security Newswire,
published April 7 by the Nuclear Threat Initiative
(www.nti.org).

The text of the NNSA Advisory Committee report, in three parts
(transmittal letter and two subcommittee reports), may be found
here:

http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/usa/nuclear/index.html


NRDC VIEWS THE NUCLEAR WEAPONS COMPLEX

The Natural Resources Defense Council has provided its own
independent assessment of the U.S. nuclear weapons complex.

"Despite the end of the Cold War, the Bush administration is
spending 12 times more on nuclear weapons research and
production than on nonproliferation efforts to retrieve, secure
and dispose of nuclear weapons materials worldwide," the NRDC
report found.

The new report "focuses on a half-dozen DOE nuclear weapons
projects, revealing they are billions of dollars over budget and
years behind in meeting their goals."

See "Weaponeers of Waste:  A Critical Look at the Bush
Administration Energy Department's Nuclear Weapons Complex and
the First Decade of Science-Based Stockpile Stewardship" by
Christopher E. Paine, April 2004:

http://www.nrdc.org/nuclear/weaponeers/contents.asp


PRICE OF NUCLEAR SECRETS PLUMMETING [SATIRE]

"Top-secret information about the design, construction, and
delivery of nuclear weapons has never been more affordable than
it is today, CIA Director George Tenet announced Monday."

That insight comes from a *satirical* account in The Onion
(flagged by CQ Homeland Security).

"We're seeing items like warhead blueprints and uranium
enrichment instructions go for a fraction of what they used to
cost," Tenet said. "There's never been a better time to snag a
deal on low-mass, high-yield weaponry schematics. Countries like
Iran and North Korea are finding that it's a real buyer's
market."

See "Price of Nuclear Secrets Plummeting," The Onion, April 7:

http://www.theonion.com/news/index.php?issue=4014

"Tenet said he expects prices to continue to decline."


_______________________________________________
Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the
Federation of American Scientists.

To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to
secrecy_news-request.nul
with "subscribe" in the body of the message.

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Secrecy News is archived at:
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_______________________
Steven Aftergood
Project on Government Secrecy
Federation of American Scientists
web:www.fas.org/sgp/index.html
email:  saftergood.nul
voice:  (202) 454-4691








   UFO UpDates
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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   Apr > Apr 14

                      Steve Bassett For 'President' #3

From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul>
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 10:56:20 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 12:22:56 -0400
Subject: Steve Bassett For 'President' #3


Hi Folks --

Steve Bassett is off to a great start! He's gotten a _great_
boost, but the battle ain't over even when the battle is over!
The point is that the kind of struggle that we're _all_ in, and
that Mr. Bassett (now in this lucky spotlight!) has been
fighting steadily for over five years, is not a struggle
remotely forgiving of inattention or complacency. It's like
building a dam of sand against a rising tide. Futile, perhaps,
but what else is there! It remains that we have to keep pushing
until there's nothing left to push against. We're, forward
thinking, Human Beings! It's what we do! Besides... if we're
diligent and focused? ...Tides DO recede!

If you have not yet given Steve your support, or can think of
someone you might convince to do same, go to the Showtime
"American Candidate" Website at:

http://www.americancandidate.com/candidate_homepage.php?id1

...and hit his "support me" button with some enthusiastic
resolve! I suspect that you will be _most_ gratified by what you
energize with that simple action! Lastly, to hear Steve tell you
what his platform includes, and hear the bell of intelligent
sincerity that he rings in the expression of it, visit:

http://radio.atlantisrising.com/HillyRose/223_Steven_Bassett/223_Steven_Bassett.
ram

...(watch the wrap and cut and paste the URL as necessary!), and
listen to a recent radio interview with Hilly Rose! It's a
detailed impact briefing on Steve's overall program. Very
interesting! Steve is no "fling wing-nut" confused and consumed
by fringe issues! He's a focused, intelligent, articulate, and
coherent person that sees the bigger picture! We can take
advantage in that!

...Get behind this folks. This 'mock' campaign _could_ be more
relevant and genuine than the real one, or might, at least (!),
effect the 'real' campaign in a positive way! Read on!


[Current Support Count 5462 --ebk]


alienview.nul
www.AlienView.net

Photo Album: http://www.alienview.net/AVAlbum.htm
(send picture as attachment to alienview.nul)
Splash page:  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AlienViewGroup/
Radio Show & Splash Page: http://www.alienview.net/alienviews.htm
Radio Show Archives: Out of Service at this time...
http://www.alienview.net/N2Ltune.html -- The music in me...








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   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   Apr > Apr 14

               Re: Steve Bassett For 'President' #3 - Lehmberg

From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul>
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 11:48:53 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 13:08:42 -0400
Subject: Re: Steve Bassett For 'President' #3 - Lehmberg


>From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 10:56:20 -0500
>Subject: Steve Bassett For 'President' #3

>Hi Folks --

>Steve Bassett is off to a great start! He's gotten a _great_
>boost, but the battle ain't over even when the battle is over!
>The point is that the kind of struggle that we're _all_ in, and
>that Mr. Bassett (now in this lucky spotlight!) has been
>fighting steadily for over five years, is not a struggle
>remotely forgiving of inattention or complacency. It's like
>building a dam of sand against a rising tide. Futile, perhaps,
>but what else is there! It remains that we have to keep pushing
>until there's nothing left to push against. We're, forward
>thinking, Human Beings! It's what we do! Besides... if we're
>diligent and focused? ...Tides DO recede!

>If you have not yet given Steve your support, or can think of
>someone you might convince to do same, go to the Showtime
>"American Candidate" Website at:

>http://www.americancandidate.com/candidate_homepage.php?id1

>...and hit his "support me" button with some enthusiastic
>resolve! I suspect that you will be _most_ gratified by what you
>energize with that simple action! Lastly, to hear Steve tell you
>what his platform includes, and hear the bell of intelligent
>sincerity that he rings in the expression of it, visit:

http://radio.atlantisrising.com/HillyRose/223_Steven_Bassett/223_Steven_Bassett.
ram

>...(watch the wrap and cut and paste the URL as necessary!), and
>listen to a recent radio interview with Hilly Rose! It's a
>detailed impact briefing on Steve's overall program. Very
>interesting! Steve is no "fling wing-nut" confused and consumed
>by fringe issues! He's a focused, intelligent, articulate, and
>coherent person that sees the bigger picture! We can take
>advantage in that!

>...Get behind this folks. This 'mock' campaign _could_ be more
>relevant and genuine than the real one, or might, at least (!),
>effect the 'real' campaign in a positive way! Read on!

>[Current Support Count 5462 --ebk]


...And I just had a thought. John Ford is poignant issue here
and is an illustration of the cause, even if he IS crazy as a
latrine rat (And my most recent report is that he is quite
lucid)! He is (was?) a stalwart investigator, an _innocent_
'everyman' up the nose of the _criminal_ 'big' man, pursuing
lawful and ethical activities Americans are supposed to be able
to take for granted. A large part of Ford's diagnosed
'psychosis' is his contention that UFOs, in an extraterrestrial
sense, are a reality!

When do they come around to get Steve? Or me? You....?

Iff'n you sail on this ship, Steve, can you make John Ford an
aspect of your platform? Kind of a Willy Horton in reverse...
<LOL>

Oh, and by the way... Suffolk County New York _owes_ John Ford a
_monstrous_ amount of money...

alienview.nul

EXPLORE "AlienViewGroup" at its HostPros URL.
http://www.alienview.net


JOHN FORD RESTORATION FUND -- John will be released eventually.
He'll need a tax free cash stake to get on his feet. Let's put
one together for him; the bigger it is -- the more attention he
gets. It could have been you. E-mail for detail. $450.00 pledged
-- $300.00 collected!

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite.
What others see from afar, I leave far behind me."
- Giordano Bruno, scourged by the scabrously specious scurrilous.








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   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   Apr > Apr 14

                Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers -

From: John Scheldroup <jschel.nul>
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 13:08:01 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 15:54:21 -0400
Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers -


>From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 09:51:33 -0700
>Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers

>>From: John Scheldroup <jschel.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 16:28:30 -0500
>>Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers

>>>From: Philip Mantle <suemantle.nul>
>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers
>>>Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 11:50:21 +0100

>Have you read Dennis Murphy's report on the debris?

>http://www.beyondroswell.com/roswell/debris.htm

>What do you think of his assessment?


Which error??

DEBRIS MANUFACTURING OPTIONS
"The raised lettering would have to be done with a very precise
CNC (computer numeric control) machine. When I look at the
lettering I see precise rounds as parts of the symbols. I do not
think that you can do this with current milling machines."

Huh??

To think all that knowledge about machining and never heard of a
ball endmill <G>

http://www.artcaminsignia.com/artcam/insignia/default.asp

FILM DETAILS
"Anything structural that exhibits a lack of starting and stopping
momentum that these objects exhibit must be very light."

Huh??

Ed, Momentum is conserved. This is not to impart that even in an
isolated system of two objects that exchange something to
something in one system, but here we got "independent variables"
we are simply handling the object back and forth thru the air.

When you stop waving thing, you end up having an equal amount
momentum as when you started. There is nothing to exchange
momentum with besides air friction.. No starting and stopping
momentum it is conservatory.

Forces to lift bowling balls and marbles ??.

FILM DETAILS
"Here is a problem for the hoaxer. The bigger I-beam would have
to be made out of some type of foam to make it as light as it
appears."

Nope.

http://www.dynacast.com/magnesium/

>>Beyond the meaning of symbols themselves what I can say to some
>>degree of certainty is that both symbols do share something in
>>common, they were both formed with a punch and an hammer.

>I thought the symbols were not indented, but embossed.

Clearly someone used the wrong tool then Ed.

http://tinyurl.com/2ves6

>Aren't
>they "raised symbols" above the flat surface, not carved or
>"punched" into it? Or are you saying that the punching somehow
>raises the symbols, and this is accomplished while the metal is
>still hot? Can you duplicate the process?

See above material Ed.

Punch and Chisel set maybe a Dremel Tool

http://www.dremel.com/html/home_fr.html

>Are you saying that this is a process that can be duplicated
>by our current technology?

Duplicate?

That p.o.s and reasons why not to..

Back in my school days, when I had one such teacher a
"journeyman machinist/toolmaker would have made me scrap such a
thing in order to do over. The project was letters, numbers,
round punch marks .500 plate steel. Looked good to me expected
good grade teacher tossed in waste basket. When doing such
things manually he said then he pointed my attention to a
magnifier glass and said use this and he shows me why. How
useful the new magnifier glass was to be for precision well
before I made any punch mark.

As I did not want to do over again, my grade point average
reflected, while other students in class either didnt care about
nor nor care to try. <g>

He always reminded us not to complain for if this were Germany
"doing over" meant "hand filing" a ball bearing into the shape
of 1 inch cube with all surfaces to be perpendicular and
parallel to a few thousands.

>How much would this
>"painstaking effort" cost and where could we get it done?

Depending if you want a C- or a painstaking A.

>I don't exactly get your point. Are you arguing that the
>debris could be easily hoaxed or are you marveling at
>what seems to be the technical skill required.

Skill? See above.

>If you're at all interested in the AA, you could own your own
>high resolution AA CD set for $15.00.

>http://www.v-j-enterprises.com/aafilm/details.html

Punch and Chisel Set Ed? <G>

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=punch+and+chisel+set


John Scheldroup








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   Apr > Apr 14

                           Filers Files #17 - 2004

From: George A. Filer <Majorstar.nul>
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 14:09:41 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 16:27:09 -0400
Subject: Filers Files #17 - 2004



Filers Files #17 - 2004 Skywatch Investigations
George A. Filer, Director MUFON Eastern
April 14, 2004, Webmaster: Chuck Warren --
If photos don't show up in email, try
www.georgefiler.com/ "Weekly files" Views

Everything Has Changed

Life on Mars Changes Everything - Mars Rock With 'O A O'
Letters, Evolution in Crisis, Mars - More Writing on Ejecta,
Asteroids Could Destroy Earth, New Jersey - Orbs, Pennsylvania -
White Diamond, Florida - Oval, Virginia - Image of Diamond UFO,
Michigan - Funnel, Ohio - Flying Rectangles, Indiana -Saucer,
Illinois - Flying Triangle, Tennessee - Florescent Disc, Arizona
- Reddish Light, Nevada - Giant Flying Caterpillar, California -
Blue Object, Washington - Fireball and Smoke, Canada - Heavy UFO
Activity, Malaysia - Disc, Philippines - Disk, and Australia -
Oval UFO's Down Under.

The Detection of Life on Mars Could Change Everything. There are
serious flaws in the Theory of Evolution and the Big Bang
theory. What we think we know now is in trouble because, we have
ignored the reality of life on Mars, Unidentified Flying Objects
in our skies, and life in space. Watching and video taping UFO's
indicates that they probably use other dimensions and our
universe is much larger than just what we can see. Also, now
that we have the virtual certainty that intelligent life once
lived on Mars, life likely exists through out the universe and
new theories should be considered.

My new Theory of Tranplantetation simply states that life moves
or is transported from one planet to another. This may be
accomplished by transportation aboard meteorites, space dust or
even space ships. Noah's arc may be the story of animals and
alien intelligence brought to earth. Meteorite impacts and
extinction's may not be accidental. It is my opinion that
because of the complexity of life, there must be a creator and
designer. Additionally, there is energy in space that can be
used for the benefit of mankind.

Rock With 'A O A' Written On It.

A professional photographer, BC, has sent me an image of a
"croc" rock that appears to have an "A" an "O" and another "A"
on them when seen from a distance by the Nav cam. On closer
examination there are numerous darker numbers and symbols going
on there, too. I searched and found a closer image from the
better Pan cam and the rock doesn't even look like the same one
in many respects. The Nav cam shows a rather smooth sided with
rounded features rock and the Pan cam shows a rock with cupped
out sharp fragmented features. There are no larger letters
apparent here as in the "E" rock which showed letters plainly.
However, after scaling up and looking closer I see darker
letters and numbers again. So I think that I can conclude that
NASA is using some kind of "Watermark" program on their images.
If you look under the filter drop down menu in Photoshop at the
bottom you will see Digimarc listed.

Image thanks to JPL.

It is one kind of program that will place hidden numbers and
letters into images for identification. It does this by matching
the background and distorting the letters and numbers and
fitting them around pixels shapes or natural features in the
image. They are nearly invisible and are used for copyrighting.
We are scaling these up enough to see the watermarks. Now I
don't think the "E" rock is in that category as the letters were
too big. But this watermark may be enough to make us think that
there are unknown symbols and distorted letters on the rocks.
The only other conclusion would be that NASA is changing the
rocks in the clasps by Photoshopping out the letters. It could
be done. I put together a full color of the Croc rock and the
color was as wacky as it gets with the scene all pink and the
tops of the rocks pure blue. I don't believe that for a minute.
The above rock can be found on Spirit Sol 75/76 Pan cam and Nav
cam.

Evolution in Crisis

The new evidence of intelligent life on Mars creates a situation
where everything we know suddenly comes into question. Martian
civilization is communicating with us through the remarkable
structures, symbols and sculptors it has left behind. We now
have grounds for our belief, of clear visible conspicuous
evidence that Mars in the past had life similar to our own.
Science has yet to explain how, why, when and where life began.
Theory of Evolution is the basis for biology and states all
species of plants and animals developed from earlier forms by
hereditary transmissions of slight variations or mutations in
successive generations. Evolution states, our ancestors began in
the primordial soup billions of years ago and we gradually
evolved or mutated into human form. This requires thousands if
not millions of gradual progressions and mutations to develop
from one cell life forms to eventually develop into humans.

When I took college biology they were still looking for the
missing links and progressive steps but not one verified the
thousands of missing links that have been found. In 1859,
Charles Darwin developed his theory and declared that we
descended from the apes, yet in 150 years the missing link has
not been found. Species change, and various types of cats or
dogs have been bred from comparatively tiny ones to huge ones,
but they still remain within their species. With similar life
believed to exist on Mars, a new world of biology is opening up
to us with the knowledge that similar life exists on Mars and
likely traveled from one planet to another either by asteroids
or space ship. We have located images of large cats, deer,
bison, scorpion, lizard, and snake like organisms on Mars.
Additionally, dozens of faces that include the young and old,
male and female.

Even at the molecular level we have a highly ordered hierarchic
system. Each class at the molecular level is unique, isolated
and unlinked by intermediates.

On Mars, we have found intelligent life with the ability to make
symbols, create statues, dam rivers and build structures. This
was not done by chance but by design. The Martian engineers and
sculptors were not there by accident, they had a
creator/designer/or maker of some type as do we. The creation of
homo-sapiens and Martians exhibits vast complexity and we must
therefore conclude our creation was the result of intelligent
activity. The concept of change caused by accidental mutations
over millions of years does not explain the complexity of all
higher forms of animal life.

Perhaps we have to look to the wisdom of the ancients to explain
the real truth of the heredity and descent of man. The Egyptian
Book of the Dead, and India's Ramayana and Mahabharata, the
Bible, and Sumerian writing all indicate Earth was visited by
extraterrestrials. Mars was repeatedly pelted with meteorites,
the ejecta kept piling up leaving a blanket of debris and the
Martians likely came to realization their planet was doomed.
They had to go underground or move to another planet. The
closest and easiest to reach would be Earth.

Perhaps, it is time for biologists to turn to the wisdom of
others to explain the origin of man. In February, I visited the
Hopi Indian Store next to the Grand Canyon and was told Hopi
legends tell us that a planet Mukluk between Mars and Jupiter
was devastated and survivors from neighboring Mars had to
abandon the Red Planet and emigrate to Earth probably bringing
plants and animals. It is time to realize that you and I were
not the result of evolution, but are here by design and are the
creations of our creator that bought the spark of life to Earth.

Perhaps, the most intelligent Greek who ever lived reverently
supported the concept of alien life. Plato, like the Sumerians,
Egyptians, Hindus, Japanese, and many American Indian tribes all
believe in a golden age when Earth was ruled by the gods and
superhuman beings from space. The Japanese Mikado claims space
people visited Japan. Many Chinese believe in space visits and
thousands of years ago the Chinese isolated hormones and by
acupuncture wrought cures. The building of the Great Pyramid in
the exact center of the world's land mass infers an aerial
survey more than 3000 years ago.

The New English Bible states "When mankind began to increase and
to spread all over the earth and daughters of men were born to
them, the sons of gods saw that the daughters of men were
beautiful so they took to themselves such women as they chose."
Genesis 6-1&2.

Evolutionists tell us that someday they will find the missing
links. I suggest that life came from space. Sir Fred Hoyle and
Chandra Wickramsinghe 'In Evolution From Space' provide and
estimate of the chance of life originating, assuming functional
proteins to have a probability of 10 -20.12. They feel that
panspermia the seeding of life from space is much more likely
than evolution. Tons of material comes from space each day and
settles on earth. We get over 400 UFO reports a month in the
United States from concerned citizens. It's time to realize our
Earth has been visited by intelligent life for thousands, if not
millions, of years.

Mars - More Writing on Ejecta

Kim Shaffer a life long sculptor who has worked all his life
with stone writes, "Here is a large piece of ejecta
photographed by the Spirit rover which I have enhanced and found
quite interesting. It also raises more questions than it
answers. Note a remarkable feature on the right central portion
of this stone. It appears as a letter "T" and appears in raised
relief. There can only be three possible explanations for this
feature. One being that it is an extremely bizarre inclusion,
two, it is a fossil, or three, it was carved there by some type
of intelligence. To the central portion of this same stone, when
enhanced, clearly there is a "crown" shape with forms above
appearing as 'W O 1 F' perhaps wolf. While this is also
remarkable and appears as a raised relief, it possibly could be
another fossil, light aberration or in fact could be "as seen."
I question a few things as far as JPL is concerned. These folks
are seeing these anomalies just as we are, yet they have yet to
take a second or close-up picture of any of them. Are they
hiding something from us? Are they presenting these "anomalies"
to fuel the conspiracy mill? As far as I am concerned, I have
not been convinced that an intelligence may have actually carved
these things but I am certainly convinced that the whole story
has yet to be told. Thanks to MUFON's Kim Shaffer


Asteroids Could Destroy Earth

Astronomers claim there are asteroids out there, that could
smack into the Earth and wipe out human civilization, but they
are well on their way to finding every asteroid that poses a
threat. Experts told the Senate subcommittee on Science,
Technology and Space that they are on schedule to finding
everything bigger than 1 kilometer in diameter that might hit
the Earth and destroy a city... "Since 1998, more than 700
objects have been discovered, and is over 70 percent complete.

 NASA's Lindley Johnson told the hearing. There have been a few
scares. Last September, scientists spotted asteroid "2003 QQ47"
and first measurements suggested it could hit the Earth on March
21, 2014, with an explosion the size of 20 million atomic bombs.
But the forecast was revised: It won't hit, after all. A small
asteroid is believed to have leveled 400 square miles of
Siberian forest in 1908. "Although the probability of the Earth
being hit by a large object in this century is low, a defense
against such an occurrence would be to use The Space Shuttle's
main engines for 20 years to deflect a 1 kilometer object away
from a projected collision, Using a nuclear bomb might make
matters worse because the pieces of the blown-up asteroid would
stay in the same orbit and eventually come back together again.
The next task will be to find smaller objects that could do
considerable damage. Thanks to Bruce

New Jersey - Orbs

SOUTH PLAINFIELD - The 32 year old witness was passing over the
Driscoll Bridge on the Garden State Parkway on April 5, 2004, at
11:45 PM when he spotted a sphere type orange ball of light. The
object banked left and proceeded to accelerate upwards into some
high level clouds and then out of site rather quickly. Thanks to
Peter Davenport

Pennsylvania - White Diamond

ERIE - On April 7, 2004 from 9:30 to 11:00 PM, the witness saw
in the Northwest sky an extremely bright white light like a
diamond would sparkle. At times it also seemed to shift, for a
second or so, to a slight reddish color and then back to white.
It was at least ten times that of the biggest star in the sky.
There seamed to be small dot shaped, orange-ish - red-ish in
color, "balls, disks" in the surrounding area of the light.
They numbered perhaps eight or ten. They were perfectly round
with no extending light beyond the actual shape.

Then, I saw two of the white balls move away at a fairly fast
speed. The one followed the other in exact formation space and
distance from the other. They continued moving away changing to
orange and finally disappeared. At one point approximately 30
minutes after I first saw the light it dropped lower in the sky,
just a little, the reason I noticed this was because it was now
just slightly below the tree line. By 11 PM, it was gone. Thanks
to Peter Davenport UFOcenter

Virginia - Image of Diamond UFO


FRANKLIN COUNTY -- Don sent me an image of a diamond shaped UFO
over the countryside taken towards the Appalachian Mountains on
April 8, 2004. In late afternoon, about 5:45 PM, there was a
gorgeous double rainbow after a rainstorm near the Blue Ridge
Parkway twenty miles south of Roanoke. Don took five images of
the rainbow in several minutes and one contained the UFO.
Neither he nor his friend saw the UFO. Thanks to Don.

Florida - Oval LAKELAND -- My parents called and told me they
saw a UFO on April 4, 2004, at about 1 PM. My Dad said it
hovered for about 45 seconds and then it was gone. He said the
object was like a cigar with the ends rounded. He said right
after that a jet flew over their car. Both my parents told the
same story. I have to believe its true coming from them.
UFOcenter

BRANDON - The witness was heading for home on April 3, 2004, at
6:45 PM, in her truck and noticed the moon had just risen. The
sun was not yet touching the horizon when I saw what I first
thought was Venus. However, this was NOT Venus because it was
very pure white, oval shaped object about 1/2 the size of a full
moon. It looked to be over the Gulf of Mexico. It seemed very
high in the sky and did not move, it just glowed. At this point
I pulled over on the side of the road so I could watch it
uninterrupted. As the sun lowered, the object went from an oval
to more of a triangle with softened corners. As the last of the
sun went below the horizon, the object faded away right before
my eyes. Could it be the reflection of something? Thanks to
Peter Davenport UFOcenter

Michigan - Funnel

TROY -- The object at times looked like funnel shaped cloud on
April 5, 2004, at 7 PM, It was very fuzzy and sounded almost
like a hurricane was coming. I have lived here for less then a
year and so many of these things have happened. This is the
first time I have seen what I have heard. I saw these objects at
least a dozen times. I watched for at least 10 minutes and they
periodically came back into view. They were very high up and as
high as planes usually fly, the one's with the smoke following
them. I think these were UFO's. Thanks to Peter Davenport
UFOcenter

OHIO - Flying Rectangles

FOSTORIA-- Susan Holderman writes, "I had the most exciting
moment of my life today while driving home from Tiffin on Route
18, coming out of Bascom on my way to Fostoria at 3:40 PM. I was
entering the small town and could see the highway and sky ahead
of me where the town ends. Coming from the left, were two huge
identical planes one behind the other. They were huge, long,
thin rectangular shapes with no windows, or markings to be seen
with a square "rudder" shaped appendage standing up from the
back of them. They were descending very smoothly, noiselessly
toward an open field on the right.

I was thinking, "where in the world were they landing?" From the
middle of the town, they filled up the space where I could see
the sky at the end of town. This is the first time I have
actually seen anything so detailed, so close, and so big and in
the daytime yet! When I got to the edge of town and could see
the open field, there was absolutely nothing there at all, in
the sky or in the field, no where! They just disappeared! These
were so huge that they could have been seen for a mile at least
and did not appear to be going fast, actually just gliding along
on a descent! I know the other people on the road with me saw
them too. I kept watching the guy behind me as we left the town
and his head was turning all over the place like mine, trying to
figure out where they went. He talked on his cell phone all the
way to Fostoria. Some of George Ritter's photos look similar to
what I saw. What a RUSH! I am so excited! Thanks to Susan
Holderman.


Fostoria, Ohio- Photo by George Ritter near area if sighting

Indiana -Saucer With Six Lights

ROCHESTER - The witness spotted a saucer like shape that had six
lights at 10 PM, on April 8, 2004. The lights were big and
looked like stadium lights. There were three lights in a row
then a six foot gap and three more lights. The lights were on
for l5-20 seconds then off for another l5-20 seconds, and back
on. The craft was still in the same place. As the lights were
going off for the second time, the craft started slowing moving
northeast. Then, the lights went out and the craft was gone. The
craft hovered over the tree tops and was not on the ground.
Thanks to Peter Davenport UFOcenter

Illinois - Flying Triangle CHAMPAIGN -- Early on April 4, 2004,
a couple went to look at the stars and around 1 AM, a group of
lights came from the southwest and passed directly over them
going northeast. There were about eight lights arranged into a
sort of triangular shape, although it may have been more of an
X. It was hard to tell exactly because the lights were spinning
around. Whatever, it was moving pretty fast because it only took
about six seconds to cross the sky. In this time, it made at
least three rotations tumbling across the sky in a straight
line. They were moving as if they were part of the same object.
It was difficult to estimate size and altitude, but it was about
10 degrees across the length of your fist at arm's length. They
were both pretty jumpy and left. Other friends of ours saw
something odd and it seems we saw the same thing. They saw it
from the side, from the 11th floor of their building; and said
it was really low in the sky. They thought it was probably about
75-100 feet in length. Thanks to Peter Davenport UFOcenter

Tennessee - Florescent Disc

JOHNSON COUNTY -- MUFON's Kim Shaffer writes, On April 3, 2004,
I received a call from a gentleman who was very excited about an
object he and another witness saw at 17:30 hours a "florescent
light bulb" high in the sky. There were aircraft in the vicinity
leaving condensation trails, well below the observed object that
was stationary and holding horizontally, it's very high
position. As the planes passed, the object turned slowly
vertically and ascended higher into the sky and out of sight.
The witnesses were adamant that this was a solid object. I
contacted the local FAA office and inquired as to where there
had been any pilot reported anomalous objects but received no
conformation.

KNOXVILLE -- Kim Shaffer, received a call from another truck
driver who witnessed a metallic disc on I-40 just east of
Knoxville on the afternoon of April 8, 2004. Witness reported
that the disc paced his truck and was quite large, (relative
size was that of a silver dollar) reflective and seemed to rock
side to side as it moved in a straight path. Witness stated that
the object moved behind some trees and he anticipated seeing it
again when he and the object passed the trees, but when he got
past the trees the disc did not reappear. Thanks to Kim Shafer
MUFONTN State Director http://www.mufontennessee.org

Arizona - Reddish Light

BULLHEAD CITY, and LAUGHLIN, NV - A couple were driving home on
April 9, 2004, at 8:05 PM, when they noticed a fairly bright
light on an object directly in front of them to the north. What
appeared to be the wing of the craft was illuminated by the
bright singular light of the object as if in a hard bank. So the
"wing" was straight up and down and was not hiding the large
singular light, nor was it affecting the intensity of the light.
At this time, my wife called her mother and had her look from
her location which was only a few blocks away north of our
position. She attempted to get her video camera set up, but was
unable to do so during the short time span. It was no more than
five miles away and made no sound. There was no wind, yet the
object looked as if it were drifting in a large circle hung from
a cable from high above. It appeared to keep the same altitude
as it drifted east and west pivoting in circles.

It would slow as it reached the edge of its circular pivot. This
was no flare and there was no smoke and it didn't do a good job
illuminating the ground. It was like a hot air balloon dangling
a light below it. The single light was much brighter and ten
times larger than Venus, the evening star, which was present
just to the west. The light was a dim reddish color that tended
to flicker slightly. When the object disappeared, the light
simply went out as if you flipped a switch. I can't explain the
cable or the "wing" structure above the light. I'm a trained
observer, and work security for the Federal Government. I've
never seen a "UFO" before. This object was seen by many others
and Laughlin Airport is five miles away but it was not an
aircraft. Thanks to Peter Davenport UFOcenter

Nevada - Giant Flying Caterpillar

LAS VEGAS - A giant dark brown caterpillar-like object wiggled
its way across the sky on April 4, 2004, at 3:45 PM. The high
floating caterpillar floated slowly Northwest writhing its body
at a rather high altitude. Thanks to Peter Davenport UFOcenter

California - Low Flying Blue Object

FAIR OAKS -- The witness was driving back to work at noon with
his fiancee on April 9, 2004. Near the Sunrise Bridge over the
American River, the witness noticed a low flying light blue
airplane almost like the sky that he thought was going to crash
because it was flying so low. Suddenly it was gone. We looked in
the sky all over for it but it disappeared. Thanks to Peter
Davenport UFOcenter

Washington - Fireball and Smoke

VASHON ISLAND - The witness noticed a huge meteor heading
west, away from his home on April 7, 2004, at 7:45 PM. It had
the standard looking orange flame surrounding a red/black core.
I called my Mom out to watch with me. Within five minutes the
object had dulled to a soft glow. The sunset is about 8:15 here
now but the object was still highly visible. The light then
completely extinguished and the object turned more northerly,
toward the Olympic Mountains. As it fell, dark black smoke
trailed behind it. It wasn't falling quickly, like a shooting
star, but as a "regular" plane would fly. This was not a plane
as it turned in more of a direct shift. The news didn't report
anything about the flame or smoke. SEA-TAC airport is across the
bay. Thanks to Peter Davenport UFOcenter

Canada - Heavy UFO Activity

BIBLE HILL, NOVA SCOTIA -- The following sighting was reported
to Royal Canadian Mounted Police. The witness a 24 years old,
and 3rd year science student noticed two objects at a high
altitude, almost parallel, one lagging slightly behind the other
traveling in a northern direction at 12:35 AM, on April 11,
2004. They were moving very fast and were very faint, much less
so than the stars. They were much larger than an airplane and
not blinking. The lagging object sped up to reach the other and
then, as if playing a game, criss-crossed a number of times. This
happened really quickly and then they faded out of sight.

NEW WESTMINSTER, BC - On April 4, 2004, at midnight the
witness spotted two cigar shaped UFOs that flew horizontally
traveling north with bright red fireball heads and long bright
yellow tails. The two objects flew parallel to each other at
fairly low level at a steady pace staying beside each other for
two seconds before they disappeared! There was no sputter,
fading or smoking - they just disappeared! I've never seen
anything like this before in my life.

SURREY, BC - On April 7, 2004, at 9:45 PM, the witness, a
pilot, saw three lights rapidly approaching from the west in a
triangle formation, at '12 o'clock low.' The object between the
lights was solid and triangular and when the object banked
north, the angular relationship between the lights was
consistent with the banking of an aircraft. However, this was no
ordinary aircraft. It moved completely silently and covered half
the horizon that is from Surrey to the North Shore Mountains in
about four seconds. I am guessing the altitude at 2000 - 3000
feet, and the brightness of the lights of the object relative to
the brightness of passing aircraft lights at within 7000 feet. I
felt it could not be man-made. The flight path of the object was
directly over the approach path to YVR.

VERNON, BC -- On April 8, 2004, at around 11 PM, in the western
sky, a gold object with red underneath, left a short bright
yellow gold trail and slowed down before the horizon. Time was
about 3 seconds. A shooting star leaves long trails, and a
meteor increases speed before impact, or burns out leaving smoky
trails. This sighting had neither one of these behaviors. It was
something different. Thanks to Brian Vike, Director HBCC UFO
Research

Malaysia - Disc

KUALA LUMPUR - The witness reports, "I poked my head through
my 5th floor window April 08, 2004, about 7 PM, to invite my
friend who lives upstairs to eat dinner with me. Suddenly I
noticed a black eagle like object which was hovering close by.
It was a black disc-shaped UFO. It floated at the same attitude
going forward. I pointed it out to my friend and he thought it
was the so-called UFO too. We looked carefully at it as it
slowly hovered, just like helicopters. I estimated it to be
about 100 meters from the ground and about the size of a car. It
made no sound. The disc flew in a very unique way, it flew like
something injured, because it sloped 45 degree to the left then
right then left again as it traveled along. If it was flown by
humans, they would easily be affected by nausea in such
aircraft. I noticed a red light flashing at the back of the
craft. The atmosphere near it was a little lighter than normal,
maybe due to shimmering. It disappeared in the distance. Thanks
to Brian Vike CANADA HBCC

Philippines - Disk

VICTORIAS CITY-- The witness spotted a disk type object with a
very bright light and a low sound on April 7, 2004, at 9 PM. We
heard a sound like many people talking. The color of the light
of that object changed to blue, red, violet, and orange. After
fifteen minutes it departed. Thanks to Peter Davenport UFOcenter

Australia - Oval UFO's

COOMA - The witness was sitting on the front porch of his home
with some friends drinking argile on April 7, 2004, at 11:44 PM.
Suddenly we saw a flash of light, then a series of flashing
lights for about twenty seconds. They spotted eight oval shaped
objects with white and blue flashing lights. They hovered in the
distance for another minute and then flew across the sky like
ravenous demons, leaving a red haze trail of smoke behind. As
they flew by, over my home, our lights turned off and our cars
would not start and our radios were buzzing for about five
minutes after they were out of the vicinity. Being frightened by
what we saw, we called the police. They thought we were
pranksters, so we then decided to flee our homes and traveled to
Sydney, to stay in a populated area with our families where we
knew it would be safe. Thanks to Peter Davenport UFOcenter

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   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   Apr > Apr 14

                   Robert A.M. Stephens - Again! - Part I

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 21:28:34 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 21:28:34 -0400
Subject: Robert A.M. Stephens - Again! - Part I



I received the following today. Please read it and the
next post in this thread, carefully, before posting any
responses.

Errol Bruce-Knapp
Moderator UFO UpDates - Toronto

-----


From: Robert Stephens <behold_rage.nul>
To: ufoupdates.nul
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 04:28:56 -0700
Subject: Updates on Robert A.M. Stephens


I would expect a retraction and that you were in error before
litigation. I am approaching you this way beforehand. You have
48 hours to respond. A site will go up pointing people here that
you are a proven fraud if you do not as well as litigation.

http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/1999/jan/m04-023.shtml

Conversation with Steve Waterman
http://www.midcoast.com/~waterman/

________________________________________________________________

Dear Steve,

Had a great chat with you and the Mac data and other data
concerning what has happened to our beloved nation and its
dissent by us of its growing liberalism was equally as
rewarding.

Here below is the data, answered with links to assuage the
mistakes and defamation subjects at hand. I hope you can get
this to the right folks. I have given up contacting the various
SEAL? Sites, since they do not respond. I don't want to sue. If
there is static or that this evidence does not fix the issue,
then the attorneys will do so as will the DoD Adjutant General's
Office For Civilian Affairs. The digital SEALs can then answer
according to 'their' evidence?? which seems to be lacking, in a
court of law at a juried trial since this is a federal felony.

This mail was sent to AuthentiSEALS (that site removed my name
and data), and Cyber SEALS and VeriSEALS, but the latter two
bounced back and my attorneys have failed to get in contact with
any of them. Therefore, the attorneys are going after the
service providers who host these sites with suit being filed
with the FCC as well as FBI and DoD if their is no response in
48 hours from the time they get this evidence that, in fact,
divulges that the data below and on theirs and other related so
called 'phony' sites is false as claimed against me.

I hope this gets to you okay and that I copied the email address
correctly. Please write back when you can and let me know if you
get this. This is the exact copy of the mail(s) sent out
yesterday. Also, I am going to preview your site and the photos
you mentioned. I am so glad you are a Mac guy . Call anytime.
Have fun with the logo. Thank your wife for the kind and warm
conversation about my art work.

Robert
___________________________________________________________

CASE: Subject for Felony Defamation: Items Listed Herein Below
RE: Robert A.M. Stephens, LLC

Reference From:
http://sec-global.com/services/ctp/vsg/relics/RAMS.html

http://sec-global.com/services/ctp/vsg/

Name: STEPHENS, ROBERT A.M.
Last Known Location: St. Ignatius, MT

NARR: Robert A.M. Stephens laid claim to being a SEAL Reservist
attached to SEAL Team THREE, a NASA Space Shuttle contractor and
a government "BlackOps insider" with information on everything
from UFO cow lip research to DoD Kaptain Krunch decoder rings.

________________________________________________________________

RAMS: False. I have never made claim to being a U. S. Navy SEAL.
I am a NASA Space Shuttle Contractor documenting the STS and
other Space endeavors since 1983, and doing movie special
effects as well as fine art for galleries and museums:

http://www.hq.nasa.gov/copernica/cadb/indexN.htm
Scroll down at the "S" topic thread midway.

http://geocities.com/behold_rage/artpage123.html
http://geocities.com/behold_rage/artpage120.html

I am currently doing the memorial for the loss of Space Shuttle
Columbia as I did for Challenger.
http://geocities.com/behold_rage/artpage10.html

I have never made claim or have been "Black Ops" anything for
anyone.
________________________________________________________________

He foisted his nonsense to hundreds of thousands of listeners on
the Art Bell radio program until we hoisted him up by his
skivvies on the yardarm.

________________________________________________________________

RAMS: False. I foisted nothing on anyone. Art Bell, the UFO
nutcase late night radio show host took the following
information from the 'Sightings', UFO nutcase website that Jeff
Rense, the program's host, had created on his own. Then, without
checking, in the green room time (introduction of me onto his
radio program) read the following oddball so called
accomplishments. These were false and he then edited them to be
not there for my answers when I on-air denied them. Then he had
Navy Rep. Kent Dillingham come on his show and say these claims
were all false (Dillingham was and is correct.)

Those imagined and falsely created claims about me before air
time were as follows:

I was a Black Ops insider at NASA {False}

I was a "Ph.D.' {False}

I was a "Scientist" {False}

I was a Navy SEAL {False}

I had secret information for Bell's Listeners {False. I was
invited onto Bell's show to debate the nutcase Richard Hoagland
and I won, beforre Bell cut me off the show at 18:40 seconds
into the broadcast which would have normally run for 4 hours.}

I was a highly ranked "official" in deep NASA {False}

I had very secret information concerning UFOs {False}

I was a spy {False}

I was going to divulge what "Really" happened with Shuttle
Challenger {False}

I had seen several UFOs in Montana {False. I only reported about
them on my website from what the local newspapers said, from law
enforcement witnesses who allegedly did see something, whatever
that was.}

I am a painter in realistic imaging in oils and digital, both
for NASA and the movie industry and a third generation ex-
 cowboy, lumberjack out of Montana. I have been documenting for
NASA for 23 years. That is it. Consult for further proof, here:
http://www.geocities.com/behold_rage/
________________________________________________________________


UPDATE: Stephens was apparently so upset over his exposure as a
phony SEAL that he has regressed into spasms of unintelligible
drivel between bouts of near-vegetative drooling and
uncontrollable twitching. Well, at least he is no longer
claiming to have been a SEAL. NASA has also publicy stated that
Stephens has never been affiliated with them in any regard (i.e.
his entire "life" is a lie).
________________________________________________________________

RAMS: False. I don't do spasms, My epileptic wife did,
however. NASA has publicly stated nothing whatsoever and this is
a pathological lie - and the main subject for the litigation as
well as the claim I have stated I am a Navy SEAL, for which I
never have, period! Here is the links and contact points at
NASA: http://www.hq.nasa.gov/copernica/cadb/indexS.htm (Scroll
down to my name) NASA-KSC Contact: Larry Mauk: 321-867-4496
NASA-Headquarters: Bert Ulrich: 202-358-1713 ( Director of the
NASA Art Program)
________________________________________________________________


It seems he is/was also involved in some sort of litigation with
Art Bell as a result of being exposed worldwide as a complete
fraud in every aspect (SEALs, NASA etc. etc. etc...) Clearly
Stephens is highly agitated about having his lies revealed. But,
that's what we do here to phony SEALs like Mr. Wannabe. As for
Art Bell, well, no one around here can recall ever hearing his
radio show.
________________________________________________________________

RAMS: False: A pathological lie. Art Bell did not like the fact
I ripped him, and his cult like church of anti-Americanism,
Anti-NASA and his fruitcake guest, Richard Hoagland, a new
[descriptive expletive deleted --ebk]. I did. He sued me for
$60,000,000 dollars and lost in 3 supreme courts in 3 states. He
lied. Jacor Communications, his Radio Sponsor and 2nd Largest
Communications Network in the U. S, investigated him and found
he did lie about me and fired him. He is not no longer on air.
My attorney's are now filing counter suit against him for
$100,000,000 Felony Defamation, and have been unable to contact
him anywhere. It is he that is the coward wannabe who ran away
and it is I that remains. He also has his followers issue my
death certificate about twice per year. I am not dead. Art Bell
has been found to have paid blood money to have affidavits
falsified in Flathead County Montana and elsewhere in Montana
and Colorado against me. It is Art Bell who is in very very big
trouble.

Here is Art Bell' [descriptive expletive deleted --ebk] website
- he has some [descriptive expletive deleted --ebk] on there now
since he ran away:

http://www.coasttocoastam.com/

Here is the Insane Richard Hoagland's [descriptive expletive
deleted --ebk]

website:

http://www.enterprisemission.com/

Here is the fruitcake Jeff Rense amazing website {CBS took the
name 'Sightings' away from him}:

http://www.rense.com/

Here's mine:
http://geocities.com/behold_rage/

Here is my NASA-Smithsonian link for the numerous Smithsonian
SITES tours I've been honored to have my work included in:

http://geocities.com/behold_rage/visions_of_flight.html

Here's the dismissal documents of Art Bell's $60,000,000
"lawsuit" against me:

http://geocities.com/behold_rage/dismiss_page_1.html

Hopefully, you have the discernment to look at these links, and
figure out from there who is telling the truth, and who is not.

________________________________________________________________

Quite frankly, we don't really care about any UFO debates.
Stephens claimed to be a former Navy SEAL and it is for that lie
alone that we keel-hauled him in the sea of exposure. RUMINT has
it that Stephens privately continues to maintain his SEAL fraud
to some degree, no doubt claiming that his exposure was part of
some government conspiracy to silence him. He has clearly built
himself up as a legend in his own, deluded mind. And as for that
forged death certificate...too bad it was also fake. Get a life,
Stephens.

________________________________________________________________

RAMS: False. A pathological lie. I make no such claim and never
have! My social security number is: 557-86-3917. my draft number
was 311. I was advised by my recruiter under Ryan Clause that I,
a last surviving male as a 'Stephens' (8th generation American)
would be stationed for tour in-country, which I did want to do.
So, I never went into the armed forces, period. I do have a very
successful life and am quite pleased with it. Art Bell and
Ufology do not. They are not pleased with me since I reamed
their asses. I am also not afraid of anything. I laid my ass out
for NASA, for $60,000,000 and got sued. I won. Is that the
trademark of a liar? Art Bell did make false claims and so did
Jeff Rense of 'Sightings'. They have since erased the very radio
archives and my attorneys are subpena them for those now missing
archives. Art Bell & Co. run my death certificate about twice a
year, as mentioned. These people are not American nor part of
our own DNA. Wishing me dead, that stated as you have is a
statement read more likely from the UFO-psycho bunch. It will
be good in court too.

________________________________________________________________


If you would like to let this premium loser know what a specimen
he is, contact him at the following locale:

Robert A.M. Stephens
34171 Hwy. 93
St. Ignatius, MT 59865

________________________________________________________________

RAMS: False. To contact this premium loser, here below is the
following best and fastest contact points for reaching me and
you are encouraged to do so ASAP. And I hope whoever reads this,
will, in fact, have the guts and backbone to call and let me
know about this evidence as presented by me to validate my
claims that you are presenting complete falsehoods about me.

You have presented complete falsehoods, no evidence, felony
defamation, slander, and misrepresented a branch of DoD. You
have not checked your sources and your sources are a bunch of
UFO freaks. I am confused. If not a response from you, you will
be litigated, your host internet provider will be litigated, and
you will be prosecuted also through here from DoD:

http://www.defenselink.mil/dodgc/defense_ethics/

Please be what you are, and respond. You seem to have a hard-on
for people who fake or misrepresent being U. S. Navy SEALS.
Well, oddly I get a little pissed for those that publicly defame
me and accuse me falsely. And that is fair. I thought the U. S.
Navy SEALS, on one of your sites, went my this moniker: "In a
time of chaos and insurrection and deceit, telling the truth is
a revolutionary idea - George Orwell" Explain this conundrum.
=46rom my view, you appear to not be familiar with truth at all.
Who also do not check your sources very well. I am trying this,
this way, before litigation. Respond. Steve Waterman has and
responded fairly and kindly.

"Premium Loser", me, (are your sure?) can be contacted here:
877-225-0045-Toll Free - Hanson Trust, LLC, Agent
253-884-0777-Studio-far west
253-686-6248-Artist Cell -
behold_rage.nul

If you do read this, and my evidence reveals I am telling the
truth, It will be expected you to put in my space where I was
presented at your site, a public retraction and correction that
you were in error. Legally, that would be part of the case
settlement if this goes to trial. You are encouraged also ASAP
 to contact your own legal representation and present this email
and links and get advice from legal counsel versed in internet
law if this final approach to you on this subject is valid and
would hold merit in court. My attorneys and DoD, FCC, and NIC
are assured it does.

You have 48 hours to respond.

Thank you,

I am ,
______________________________________________________
R O B E R T A. M. S T E P H E N S & CO., LLC, =A9 =AE =99
ROBERT A.M. STEPHENS & CO. , AVENUE OF THE AMERICAS, NY, NY
NASA Fine Art Documentation Program
NASA-Smithsonian International Traveling Exhibit Program (SITES)
National Academy of Art, People's Republic Of China
http://www.geocities.com/behold_rage/
_________________________________________________
Have Horse, Have Jeep, Have Easel, Have Heart, Will Travel









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   Apr > Apr 14

                   Robert A.M. Stephens - Again! - Part II

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 21:49:14 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 21:49:14 -0400
Subject: Robert A.M. Stephens - Again! - Part II




When I read Stephens' e-mail to me this morning I wondered why
he would raise his head again. And why he wouldn't demand that
I also remove his post to the UFO UpDates List, from back on
December 17, 1998 and archived at:

http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/1998/dec/m17-019.shtml

which the reader might find illuminating.

I also recalled that Stephens had been interviewd on
'Strange Days... Indeed' the radio program that I host on
Sunday, December 27, 1998.

Prior to that interview, I had talked with him on the phone and
asked that he e-mail me a bio that I could use by way of
introduction.

I've included it below. The section headed "Experience--Other"
too should help resolve the question of who created his
'Navy Seals' story.

Errol Bruce-Knapp
Moderator UFO UpDates - Toronto

-----

>From sti3818.nul  Sun Dec 27 19:27:34 1998
Return-Path: <sti3818.nul>
Received: from mail.montana.com (mailB.montana.com [199.2.139.117])
        by mail3.globalserve.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA02212
        for <updates.nul>; Sun, 27 Dec 1998 19:27:32 -0500 (EST)
Received: from montana.com (blk1-58.montana.com [207.40.41.58])
        by mail.montana.com (MX-9/8.9.0) with ESMTP id RAA19886
        for <updates.nul>; Sun, 27 Dec 1998 17:25:59 -0700 (MST)
Message-ID: <36866EFC.5A7FCC88.nul>
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 17:31:50 +0000
From: "Robert A. M. Stephens" <sti3818.nul>
Reply-To: sti3818.nul
Organization: Stillwater Mills
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 (Macintosh; I; PPC)
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To: ufo /toronto <updates.nul>
Subject: CV-Resume'
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3Diso-8859-1; x-mac-type=3D"54455854";=
 x-mac-creator=3D"4D4F5353"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Errol,

Loved the phone conversation---wonderful!




CV-Resume'
-----------------


What I do
--------------

I do documentation program work for Shuttle,  both in
flight and in refurb.  This involves CAD and CASE
work,  online,  using high end software on PPC
Macintosh computers.  I work at home now, sending work
through a secure online server link,  though I go to
the cape at various times (KSC).  I have done this work
over a period of 19 years.

I also do visual documentation in the form of being
accepted into the Smithsonian Institution-NASA Fine Art
Program.  You may view and access some of my work here
at NASA Headquarters,  Washington, D.C. by clicking on
the painting image on my new page web page Michael
Theroux built for me at borderlands.



Robert A.M. Stephens
34171 Hiway 93
St. Ignatius, MT  59865
1-406-745-3818


STI3818.nul

IP:  205.218.31.116
DNS:205.138.110.200
Domain Broadcast:  OT/PPP1.3 via OTTools v2.0.1
Domain Name:  montana.com
TCP/IP:  1.1.2
Date:8-26-1998

Resume: Robert A.M. Stephen--age 46

Education:  BS--FORTRAN,  Silvicultural Science,  MSU-
FVCC 1973-1977

Experience:

Macintosh OS programming,  CAD,  CAM,  Case,  Adobe PS
4.0.1,  3.0, 2.5LE,  ClarisCAD, Adobe PS-After effects,
FileMaker Pro, Compression/decoding,  Page layout,
Publishing,  Editing,  Mechanical Drawing-CAMD,
Graphics,  Spread Sheets,  Databases,
Hardware-firmware configuration,  Ethernet and LAN/WAN
configuration,  Networking,  T-1,  T-3,  and ISDN line
configuration,  Internet,  Netscape, MSIE,
Eudora-email systems configuration/Claris emailer,In
addition am versed in communications, am versed in TCP
protcols as well as FTP,   WWW,  Gopher,  Fetch,
Server-to-Server protocols and IP interfacing along
with setting up LANs,  WAN,  and WWAN,  and OT 1.1.2.

Can use the followinh Software--

PageMaker,  Word 6.0, .wav filing-vectoring,
AV-Editing,  scanning,  documentation,  photo
editing/manipulation.  3D Modeling.  Also, proficient
in Adobe PageMill,  Adobe Dimensions 2.0,  Adobe
Premier, 4.2,  Adobe Streamline 4.0,  Adobe ATM suites,
BBEdit 4.5,  Bryce 3.0,  Cinema 4 D,  ClarisDraw,
FreeHand 7,  ICQ,  Infini-D 4.0,  MacDraw 1.95-to last
version,  RayDreamStudio 5.0,  LightWave,  ResEdit
3.0,  StrataVideoShop 3.0,  WebPainter 2.0,  HL Client
1.1.2.

In addition, have experience with the following--

Cl  Packaging and design matirx configuration.
Injection molding design for case and other packaging.
Tolerance design and flow matrices. Internet
applications, configurations,  html, ClarisHomePage,
Browser config-study-software changes-plugin knowledge,
PUSH technology.  Virtual PC,  Win95, 3.1, DOS.
Sales,  marketing own and client products- for NASA and
contractors and outside vendors.


Work Experience:

NASA
McDonnell Douglas Astronautics Corporation-Kennedy
Space Center,  Florida
Lockheed-KSC
Lockheed-Johnson Space Center
MDAC-Huntsville
Smithsonian-NASA Shuttle Orbiter Documentation Program.

Owner/operator-STILLWATER MILLS=99,  19 years at above
address.
Industrial Model Maker
Taught numerous engineers-classes-for the Mac platform
at KSC and MDAC
Apple/Mac user-owner since 1978/1984 respectively
above experiences began 3-3-1982

Lumbering and Commercial Foresty Experience

Logging-Canyon Logging-4 years-Cat operator-end
loader-mechanic
Crown Zellarback-2 years-end loader-Cat operator
Boise Cascade-1 year-endloader-Cat operator
North Sierra Construction-Cat operator,  backhoe
operator/tracked/Cat
Bendix-Gigy-endloader-Cat operator
Liberty Drilling-Cat operator/backhoe
operator/tracked/Cat-endloader
Weyerhauser-sales, timber cruising,  road over sight
and construction

Experience--Other

NAVY Seal=97Team 3=97Inactive Reserves.  Active
1970-1974-Cambodia-Khmer NAVY
Scuba Diver/Rescue,  Demolitions,
Research/Recovery/Salvage
Logging-Canyon Logging-4 years
Welding and design configuration with CAD
CAD/CAM work with metal stress and failure
design and mechanical design on structures both static
and stress related
Sales and marketing of fixed and heavy goods
Inventory and database management as well as Intranet
and Internet
protocols for same and for shipping sales.


Sales--

responsible for purchase and implementing full Mac II
acquisition for MDAC-[1400 units]
responsible for purchase and implementing full Mac II
acquisition for Lockheed-[230 units]
responsible for generating and implementing Mac LAN and
network for RockWell-NASA-KSC



Jeep Ownership--

Have owned 23 Jeeps since 1966
My only vehicle--have three at current,  a CJ-7 and two
CJ-5s
1983 CJ-7 is my current main rig

Personal Status:

raising foster daughters
Lost wife of 10 years to epilepsy
own home-no debts
no health problems
no perternal children

Please contact or email for verification of work
experience.  All data available upon request.





-- Robert  A.M. Stephens
Contractor,  NASA
Shuttle Documentation Program
KSC-PA/PIB-codeMSF/shuttle
sti3818.nul
406-745-3818






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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   Apr > Apr 14

                Re: Steve Bassett For 'President' #3 - Kaeser

From: Steven Kaeser <steve.nul>
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 15:59:54 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 22:10:46 -0400
Subject: Re: Steve Bassett For 'President' #3 - Kaeser


>From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 11:48:53 -0500
>Subject: Re: Steve Bassett For 'President' #3

>>From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 10:56:20 -0500
>>Subject: Steve Bassett For 'President' #3

>>Hi Folks --

>>Steve Bassett is off to a great start! He's gotten a _great_
>>boost, but the battle ain't over even when the battle is over!
>>The point is that the kind of struggle that we're _all_ in, and
>>that Mr. Bassett (now in this lucky spotlight!) has been
>>fighting steadily for over five years, is not a struggle
>>remotely forgiving of inattention or complacency. It's like
>>building a dam of sand against a rising tide. Futile, perhaps,
>>but what else is there! It remains that we have to keep pushing
>>until there's nothing left to push against. We're, forward
>>thinking, Human Beings! It's what we do! Besides... if we're
>>diligent and focused? ...Tides DO recede!

It's probably important to keep in mind that this is a "Mock"
election for a "Mock Presidential Race", and is entertainment
and not reality. Steve is likely to be viewed as just another
fanciful charactor trying to claim fifteen minutes of fame on
national television. How this will impact ufology is a question
that has yet to be answered, and in the case of most newspaper
articles that end up in the Style or Entertainment sections of
the paper, they've been of little help in gaining credibility
among the general public.

While interesting, this "Race" shouldn't be blown out of
proportion.

Steven Kaeser







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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   Apr > Apr 14

             Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers - White

From: Eleanor White <eleanor.nul>
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 17:31:29 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 22:12:42 -0400
Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers - White


I'd like to add a comment about the alien autopsy film.

What struck me, a non-UFO-researcher, about that film is that
the actions of removing organs went _way_ too fast to be
credible. I would guess that a genuine alien body would be
dissected very slowly, something like an archaeolgical site.

The doctors in the film were working at a speed which seemed
more like some kind of 'production line' procedure.


Eleanor White








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                Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers -

From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman.nul>
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 15:19:33 -0700
Fwd Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 22:16:09 -0400
Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers -


>From: John Scheldroup <jschel.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 13:08:01 -0500
>Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers

>>Have you read Dennis Murphy's report on the debris?

>>http://www.beyondroswell.com/roswell/debris.htm

>>What do you think of his assessment?

>Which error??

John,

My hope was for a thoughtful discussion of Dennis's essay. If
you have problems with his reasoning or his facts, then reply
directly, and clearly state your case.

A bunch of links without explanation or clear context is a waste
of time. Also Dennis was writing with the technology of 1995 or
1996 in mind.

I can tell that you have not spent much time viewing the AA
debris. Why not buy an AA CD set and then see how you feel after
viewing it for awhile.

>DEBRIS MANUFACTURING OPTIONS
>"The raised lettering would have to be done with a very precise
>CNC (computer numeric control) machine. When I look at the
>lettering I see precise rounds as parts of the symbols. I do not
>think that you can do this with current milling machines."

>Huh??

>To think all that knowledge about machining and never heard of a
>ball endmill <G>

This is an example. If a "ball endmill" is the answer, I then I
want a complete explanation. The link below doesn't sufice.

>http://www.artcaminsignia.com/artcam/insignia/default.asp

>FILM DETAILS
>"Anything structural that exhibits a lack of starting and stopping
>momentum that these objects exhibit must be very light."

>Huh??

>Ed, Momentum is conserved. This is not to impart that even in an
>isolated system of two objects that exchange something to
>something in one system, but here we got "independent variables"
>we are simply handling the object back and forth thru the air.

>When you stop waving thing, you end up having an equal amount
>momentum as when you started. There is nothing to exchange
>momentum with besides air friction.. No starting and stopping
>momentum it is conservatory.

>Forces to lift bowling balls and marbles ??.

Again why not say what you mean? My evidence is that the debris
came from a craft that was at the center of vortex with heat of
at least 3000C, the melting point of silica, (cristibolite) and
survived. We know from the handling of the debris during the
footage that the debris material has very little mass and we
also know that some of the debris is melted material. From this
fact we can also surmise extreme heat.

We also know from the crash site that the craft stopped momentarily
and then abruptly. But some of the occupants still survived.

>FILM DETAILS
>"Here is a problem for the hoaxer. The bigger I-beam would have
>to be made out of some type of foam to make it as light as it
>appears."

>Nope.

>http://www.dynacast.com/magnesium/

How much mass, in in terms of the magnesium on this site, would
we find in the largest debris section?

>>>Beyond the meaning of symbols themselves what I can say to some
>>>degree of certainty is that both symbols do share something in
>>>common, they were both formed with a punch and an hammer.

>>I thought the symbols were not indented, but embossed.

>Clearly someone used the wrong tool then Ed.

It appears from the debris that the letters are raised. Are you
saying they are not raised?

>http://tinyurl.com/2ves6

>>Aren't
>>they "raised symbols" above the flat surface, not carved or
>>"punched" into it? Or are you saying that the punching somehow
>>raises the symbols, and this is accomplished while the metal is
>>still hot? Can you duplicate the process?

>See above material Ed.

I did and I'm still confused about what you're saying. Can you
duplicate this process and come out with an end product that has
all the qualities of the of the debris material. If not, can you
produce someone who is willing to try and how much would that
attempt cost, if I were to pay to have it done?

>Punch and Chisel set maybe a Dremel Tool

>http://www.dremel.com/html/home_fr.html

Right, in your dreams.

>>Are you saying that this is a process that can be duplicated
>>by our current technology?

>Duplicate?

>That p.o.s and reasons why not to..

>Back in my school days, when I had one such teacher a
>"journeyman machinist/toolmaker would have made me scrap such a
>thing in order to do over. The project was letters, numbers,
>round punch marks .500 plate steel. Looked good to me expected
>good grade teacher tossed in waste basket. When doing such
>things manually he said then he pointed my attention to a
>magnifier glass and said use this and he shows me why. How
>useful the new magnifier glass was to be for precision well
>before I made any punch mark.

>As I did not want to do over again, my grade point average
>reflected, while other students in class either didnt care about
>nor nor care to try. <g>

>He always reminded us not to complain for if this were Germany
>"doing over" meant "hand filing" a ball bearing into the shape
>of 1 inch cube with all surfaces to be perpendicular and
>parallel to a few thousands.

>>How much would this
>>"painstaking effort" cost and where could we get it done?

>Depending if you want a C- or a painstaking A.

>>I don't exactly get your point. Are you arguing that the
>>debris could be easily hoaxed or are you marveling at
>>what seems to be the technical skill required.

>Skill? See above.

>>If you're at all interested in the AA, you could own your own
>>high resolution AA CD set for $15.00.


>>http://www.v-j-enterprises.com/aafilm/details.html

>Punch and Chisel Set Ed? <G>

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=punch+and+chisel+set

I suggest you buy the AA CD set or rent the video.

Ed








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   Apr > Apr 14

                 Re: The Mystery of Sedna's 'Missing Moon' -

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 19:24:32 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 22:16:56 -0400
Subject: Re: The Mystery of Sedna's 'Missing Moon' -


NASA Science News for April 14, 2004

Astronomers examining Hubble Space Telescope images of distant
Sedna say the planetoid is even more mysterious than they first
thought.

FULL STORY at:

http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2004/14apr_sedna2.htm?list159275


Ray Stanford

"You know my method. It is founded upon the observance of
trifles." -- Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery








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   Apr > Apr 14

                       Was This A UFO Over Uldale UK?

From: Joe McGonagle <joe.mcgonagle.nul>
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 23:50:53 +0100
Fwd Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 22:19:24 -0400
Subject: Was This A UFO Over Uldale UK?


Was This A UFO Over Uldale Cumbria, UK?

Chris Parr asked me to forward this on to the list:

http://www.newsandstar.co.uk/opinion/viewarticle.asp?c=171&id=89545

WAS THIS A UFO OVER ULDALE?
Published on 13/04/2004

<image>

Spotted in the sky: C Armstrong photographed this strange image,
inset, over Cumbria

Here is a photograph I took last Saturday at around 5pm.

I was in my garden at Uldale and saw a strange object in the sky
which was approaching from the peak of Skiddaw.

I had a camera in the conservatory and managed to take a
photograph of the object in the sky.

The object was triangular and black with a huge emerald coloured
light on its undercarriage.

It flew by at great speed and make the sound of an electric
generator. I am familiar with jets flying over the area, yet I
have never seen anything like this.

Maybe this photo will aid the research of Cumbria's UFO
investigator Sharon Larkin.


Mr C Armstrong

Uldale

Cumbria








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   Apr > Apr 15

                          Fatal Plane Crash Mystery

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 00:29:40 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 00:29:40 -0400
Subject: Fatal Plane Crash Mystery




Source: The Mobile Register - Alabama

http://www.al.com/news/mobileregister/index.ssf?/base/news/1081934216102960.xml

Fatal Plane Crash Mystery

Feds: Cessna hit something in the sky, but they don�t know what

04/14/04
By Joe Danborn
Staff Reporter

Federal investigators have determined that a single-engine
delivery plane that crashed into Big Bateau Bay on Oct. 23,
2002, slammed into something 3,000 feet above the Mobile-Tensaw
Delta moments earlier - they're just not sure what it was.

The highly unusual National Transportation Safety Board account
points to unidentified red marks on the severely damaged nose
and front belly of the plane as evidence that it hit another
object in the air. The crash killed 54-year-old pilot Thomas J.
Preziose of Mobile minutes after he took off from Downtown
Airport.

Agency officials "don't know of any other accident that we have
in our files that states 'collision with an unknown object,'"
said Keith Holloway, a spokesman for the NTSB, which
investigates all domestic air accidents.

"I've never seen a report like that," said Don Godwin, a veteran
pilot and chief executive officer of Mid-Atlantic Freight, which
owned the plane. "And it's very troubling to have something like
this happen and not know what caused it. I know the family's
upset, and understandably upset. It's just a great thing that
this kind of thing didn't happen to an airliner with a bunch of
people on it."

The report, released within the past few days, also notes that
malfunctioning radar recording equipment hampered efforts to
determine the exact cause of the accident. Moreover, an air
traffic controller at Mobile Regional Airport apparently gave
incorrect positions to Preziose about the location of a DC-10 in
the area, according to the recently released report, officially
called a finding of facts.

A Federal Aviation Administration official at Mobile Regional
Airport said Tuesday afternoon he wasn't aware of any equipment
malfunctions. He deferred further comment to officials who had
left for the day.

The five-page report states that the FedEx DC-10 doesn't appear
to have been involved in the collision; investigators examined
it the day after the crash and found it unscathed. That lack of
damage, however, deepens the mystery as to what happened to
Preziose's Cessna 208B Cargomaster.

Experienced pilot:

Preziose was a veteran pilot for the New York City Police
Department and had been an instructor on the Cessna 208 for the
Pan Am Flight Academy in Memphis, according to the report. He
had worked for several months for Mid-Atlantic Freight, the
company contracting with DHL, and had flown the same route
numerous times. An autopsy revealed no drugs or alcohol in his
system.

The plane - which had passed a routine FAA inspection a few
days earlier, the report states - disappeared from radar about
15 minutes of taking off from Mobile Downtown Airport at
Brookley around 7:30 p.m. Flying under contract for the delivery
company DHL Worldwide Express, it was bound for Montgomery
bearing 420 pounds of business documents.

About 10 minutes after takeoff, Preziose, using the call sign
"Night Ship 282," switched from talking to the control tower at
Brookley to the FAA tower at Mobile Regional Airport, a standard
procedure, according to Bay Haas, executive director of the
Mobile Airport Authority. His agency maintains and staffs the
Brookley tower, while the FAA operates the Mobile Regional
tower, he said.

A DC-10 ahead:

As Preziose climbed northeast through the overcast sky, relying
on instruments to take him to his cruising altitude of 3,000
feet, the Mobile Regional controller alerted him to the presence
of the DC-10, which was seven miles straight in front of him,
flying at 4,000 feet and inbound for Brookley, according to a
transcript of the chatter contained in the report. Preziose
acknowledged it.

A minute later, the controller told Preziose the DC-10, now just
two miles from the Cessna, had crossed the smaller plane's path
and remained at 4,000 feet.

"Roger, I got him above me right now," Preziose replied,
apparently confirming he saw the FedEx plane.

But seconds later, the report states, he came back on the air:
"I needed to deviate, I needed to deviate, I needed to deviate,
I needed --."

A commercial frog hunter in an airboat assisting Alabama Marine
Police and Coast Guard crews found the wreckage around midnight,
resting in shallow water, about 1 miles north of the Mobile Bay
Causeway. The wings were shattered, and most of the front of the
plane was little more than fragments.

"The impact of that collision disintegrated that airplane before
it hit the water out there," Godwin said.

Engine split in half:

The Pratt & Whitney engine block was split in two, the report
states. Godwin called that a strong indicator of a violent
impact.

"That's a big deal. That airplane could fall out of the sky and
hit concrete and it's unlikely it would've broken the engine in
half like that."

The NTSB report details the agency's attempts to find the source
of the red marks on the Cessna. Investigators sent fragments
with the markings to Wright Patterson Air Force Base in Ohio for
testing. The markings were compared to other materials from the
plane, including red paint and a red cargo bag. The tests also
examined paint from an unmanned aerial vehicle, apparently to
determine whether the Cessna had struck a military drone.

Similar tests were performed by the U.S. Aircraft Insurance
Group - which took custody of the wreckage in February - with
similar results, the report states.

"The main result from the investigation is that the material in
the red streaks on the skin of the accident airplane was
significantly different from the other materials that were
examined for comparison," the report states.

Additionally, investigators were unable to identify the source
of "a small piece of what appeared to be black anodized
aluminum, which was found embedded in the left wing" near the
fuselage, the report states.

"There's definitely no chance that that particular incident
involved one of our drones," said 1st Lt. Sage Park, a
spokeswoman for the 53rd Wing, which operates unmanned airplanes
out of Tyndall Air Force Base in the Florida Panhandle.

Those drones do not fly as far west as the Mobile area, she
said. A spokeswoman at Eglin Air Force Base, farther west in the
Panhandle, said squadrons there also generally do their testing
over the Gulf of Mexico and do not venture into airspace near
Mobile. Neither of the Air Force officials nor a spokesman at
Naval Air Station Pensacola could immediately confirm whether
units based there were conducting aircraft or missile tests when
the Cessna crashed, although all said it was unlikely for
various reasons.

The Navy spokesman said the Pensacola station has radar that
reaches Mobile, although it is generally monitored for activity
in the Gulf rather than near Mobile. The accident report does
not indicate whether investigators sought radar data from any of
the military installations.

Based on the limited radar information they could find,
investigators concluded the Cessna never crossed paths with the
DC-10, contrary to what the air traffic controller told
Preziose, the report states. Greg Breedlove, a lawyer with the
Mobile firm Cunningham Bounds, said his firm has been retained
by Preziose's family and is examining several possibilities,
including that the Cessna simply got caught in turbulence caused
by the FedEx plane.

Another possibility?:

Sam Houston, resident agent in charge of the Drug Enforcement
Administration office in Mobile, said his agency had no
information about the accident, although he said he could not
rule out the possibility that a drug smuggling plane might have
struck the Cessna.

"There is active drug smuggling in Alabama, yes, by air," he
said.

Godwin, the Mid-Atlantic Freight executive, said it was "very
hard to believe that in this United States, with terrorism being
what it is, that there's no record of any aircraft or object
moving in our space out there. You'd think somebody somewhere
has a record of that collision."

NTSB investigators should issue their final analysis on the
accident within a few months, said Holloway, the spokesman.






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   Apr > Apr 15

                   UFO Sightings May Prompt Investigation

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 00:34:55 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 00:34:55 -0400
Subject: UFO Sightings May Prompt Investigation



Source: The South Bend Tribune - Indiana

http://www.southbendtribune.com/stories/2004/04/13/local.20040413-sbt-MARS-D1-UF
O_sightings_may.sto

UFO Sightings May Prompt Investigation

Group weighs closer look after wave of reports from Rochester
area, elsewhere

By Anita Munson
Tribune Staff Writer

ROCHESTER -- Reports of a UFO in rural Rochester last week are
intriguing enough that an investigation could be launched by the
Mutual UFO Network.

Roger Sudgen, MUFON assistant director for the northern part of
Indiana, said Monday he'll be calling several residents who saw
a disc-shaped object in the sky last Thursday night around 10
p.m.

Bev Carpenter, who lives on County Road 450 North, in rural
Rochester, said she and her 13-year-old granddaughter, Shannay
Carpenter of Valparaiso, Ind., had just pulled into the driveway
of her home that night when the experience began.

"I'm a line-dance instructor," Carpenter began, "and I'd just
picked up my granddaughter, we'd gone out to supper, and I'd
taught the class, so we were pulling into the drive around 10
p.m., the normal time.

"Shannay said, 'Grandma, what's that?' I'd been getting my stuff
out, and I turned around, and said, 'Oh, my God! That's a UFO.'"

The unidentified flying object, Carpenter said, was ahead of
them on the northwest side of her home.

"There were lights sort of aiming downward," Carpenter said,
further saying the lights were not focused toward the ground,
nor straight out from whatever it was holding them in the air.

"You could just barely see the outline of the craft," she said.
"There was no color, no sound, and it just hovered right above
the tops of the trees."

Carpenter said the lights -- three in a row, side by side, and
another three in a row, side by side, separated by nothing
Carpenter could see -- stayed bright for about 20 seconds before
they went out. A few seconds later, they came on again.

"Then the craft started slowly, and I mean slowly, moving in a
northeast direction," she said. The house was then blocking both
their views, and they ran across the north side of the house to
see where the object went when it moved northeastward.

"It was gone. We couldn't see anything, or the lights were out.
We couldn't tell," Carpenter said, adding that the lights never
came back on.

She said the entire event took place in less than a minute, but
when the pair could no longer see what had been up there, "we
bee-lined it into the house, locked the doors, and called the
sheriff."

Sgt. Ed Beaird of the Fulton County Sheriff's Department was
dispatched to Carpenter's home, where a written report was
completed. A spokeswoman for the Sheriff's Department said on
Monday that several calls were received by dispatchers Thursday
night, but no number was available. Beaird was not available
Monday for comment, but the spokeswoman said the Carpenter
residence was the only location to which an officer was
dispatched concerning the UFO.

Carpenter, a 22-year worker with Hart, Schaffner & Marx and
union steward before the plant closed, said she's never
experienced anything even remotely close to a UFO sighting
before, but she knew enough from seeing various television shows
that she should contact the National UFO Reporting Center in
Seattle.

She spoke with Peter Davenport, director of NUFORC, who took
down her information, but when she tried to e-mail the
information to him, her computer showed the message:
"Difficulties -- try at a later time." Carpenter said the lights
dimmed four times during that period, as well. She waited until
Friday morning to send the information.

"Until we have a butterfly net and can actually snag one of
these, they'll remain UFOs," Davenport said in a phone interview
Monday.

Davenport said he'd had "about a dozen calls" about the
sighting, but was trying to "unbury myself" from a mountain of
data he's analyzing from more than 250 reports from around the
world. His office averages 20 reports a day, he said.

Carpenter also called Rochester's WROI radio station to report
the sighting. Baron Imhoof, news director at the station, said
he received up to 10 calls when Carpenter went on air live
Friday morning to share her experience. Others, too, had seen
the strange lights in the sky.

Gene Winters and his wife, who live half-way between Mexico and
Denver in Miami County, had no idea what neighbors to the north
were experiencing when he saw a large craft hover over the pond
behind his house around 10 p.m. Thursday night. He knew it was
that time, he said, because a television show had just ended,
and it was time to take the dog outside.

That task was delayed as the Winters couple saw, first from the
patio door on the right side of the living room in their home,
"what looked like two rows of lights, like two planes flying
together," Winters said his wife described it.

Then they saw the object out of the patio door to the left side
of the room, indicating it was closer and lower to the horizon,
he said.

"We were both looking out, and there were six to eight lights in
a row on this very, very large object," Winters said. "Living
north of Grissom Air Force Base, I thought it was one of those
big jets. ... But there were two things wrong with the picture.
It was very low in the sky, and it wasn't moving. And it was
hovering over the top of our pond."

Winters said the lights did not light any other object in his
viewing area, and the object appeared to be about 35 to 50 feet
in the air above the pond surface.

He said as he walked back to the other patio door to see it from
another angle, it disappeared, "just like the lights were turned
off."

Winters called Carpenter after reading her story in a local
newspaper.

Carpenter said she's been receiving calls from residents in
Winamac and Kewanna about Thursday's baffling sight in the sky.
She's preparing a map for investigators, she said.

Mutual UFO Network's Sudgen said he will complete interviews
with Carpenter, Winters and others before a decision is made to
physically make a trip to the area.


[UFO UpDates thanks Greg Boone for the lead]







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   Apr > Apr 15

                Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers -

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 23:52:11 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 00:40:47 -0400
Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers -


>From: Eleanor White <eleanor.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 17:31:29 -0400
>Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers

>I'd like to add a comment about the alien autopsy film.

>What struck me, a non-UFO-researcher, about that film is that
>the actions of removing organs went _way_ too fast to be
>credible. I would guess that a genuine alien body would be
>dissected very slowly, something like an archaeolgical site.

>The doctors in the film were working at a speed which seemed
>more like some kind of 'production line' procedure.


A very astute and insightful observation, Eleanor. That was my
perception as well, and I know of others, including a coroner,
who noticed.

Thanks for the courage to report it.


Ray Stanford

"You know my method. It is founded upon the observance of
trifles." -- Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery







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   Apr > Apr 15

               UFO Displays In Univ. Virginia Astronomy Class

From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 02:36:26 -0700
Fwd Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 07:59:08 -0400
Subject: UFO Displays In Univ. Virginia Astronomy Class



Hello all:

While checking out links to my website, I was somewhat amazed to
find this web page:

http://astsun.astro.virginia.edu/class/osten/astr347/Nov5.htm

This is a lesson from the Astronomy class ASTR 347, Science and
Controversy in Astronomy MWF 1-1:50 PM (Olsson 120) taught by
one Dr. Rachel Osten <rosten.nul> or <ro6b.nul>

Course description here:

http://astsun.astro.virginia.edu/class/osten/astr347/

... "This course is designed to teach critical thinking skills
with applications to controversies in astronomy. We will
investigate how science is done, and examine some fringe ideas
in astronomy. "

...and so on.

I was surprised to find one of my UFO sightings maps plus a
statistical display (histogram) as any part of the studies in
the Department of Astronomy, University of Virginia
(Charlottesville).

http://astsun.astro.virginia.edu/

If you read between the lines of the first page (URL at top) you
will see that Ufology is not in for an easy ride in Dr. Osten's
class.

Regardless, it is refreshing to see a science course, especially
astronomy, actually look at UFO matters instead of pretending
that they simply don't exist.

Your comments are always welcome.

I sent a few comments to both of Dr. Osten's email addresses. No
replies yet, but its only been a day or two so far.


Best wishes

- Larry Hatch







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   Apr > Apr 15

                 Re: Robert A.M. Stephens - Again! - Part II

From: Royce J. Myers III <ufowatchdog.nul>
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 21:33:20 -0700
Fwd Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 08:05:13 -0400
Subject: Re: Robert A.M. Stephens - Again! - Part II


>From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>To: - UFO UpDates Subscribers - <ufo-updates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 21:49:14 -0400
>Subject: Re: Robert A.M. Stephens - Again! - Part II

>When I read Stephens' e-mail to me this morning I wondered why
>he would raise his head again. And why he wouldn't demand that
>I also remove his post to the UFO UpDates List, from back on
>December 17, 1998 and archived at:

>http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/1998/dec/m17-019.shtml

>which the reader might find illuminating.

>I also recalled that Stephens had been interviewd on
>'Strange Days... Indeed' the radio program that I host on
>Sunday, December 27, 1998.

>Prior to that interview, I had talked with him on the phone and
>asked that he e-mail me a bio that I could use by way of
>introduction.

>I've included it below. The section headed "Experience--Other"
>too should help resolve the question of who created his
>'Navy Seals' story.

<snip>

Hi Errol & Listers,

Yes, I too received a message from Stephens with the damand that
I remove him from the UFO Hall of Shame:

http://www.ufowatchdog.com/hall1.html

or he'll sue me for "Felony Defamation" ...yeah, uh, okay.
<eyes rolling>

Needless to say, nothing is coming down from my site and
Stephens contacted me well over three years ago to tell me what
a wonderful job I had done - still trying to figure that one out
since he applauded his own inclusion in the UFO Hall of Fame.

And yes, one would have a mild curiosity as to why Stephens
would rear his head again...

Regards,

Royce J. Myers III
UFOWATCHDOG.COM










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   Apr > Apr 15

                Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers -

From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman.nul>
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 21:42:46 -0700
Fwd Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 08:09:19 -0400
Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers -


>From: Eleanor White <eleanor.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 17:31:29 -0400
>Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers

>I'd like to add a comment about the alien autopsy film.

>What struck me, a non-UFO-researcher, about that film is that
>the actions of removing organs went _way_ too fast to be
>credible. I would guess that a genuine alien body would be
>dissected very slowly, something like an archaeolgical site.

Eleanor,

The entire procedure took about an hour and forty-five minutes
from the time the creature's is first viewed to the brain
extraction. There are reasons to believe that this wasn't the
surgeons' first encounter with these creatures.

>The doctors in the film were working at a speed which seemed
>more like some kind of 'production line' procedure.

It didn't seem that way to me, but it certainly wasn't an
archaeological dig.


Ed








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   Apr > Apr 15

               Re: Steve Bassett For 'President' #3 - Lehmberg

From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul>
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 05:26:49 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 08:31:02 -0400
Subject: Re: Steve Bassett For 'President' #3 - Lehmberg


>From: Steven Kaeser <steve.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 15:59:54 -0400
>Subject: Re: Steve Bassett For 'President' #3

>>From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 11:48:53 -0500
>>Subject: Re: Steve Bassett For 'President' #3

>>>From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul>
>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 10:56:20 -0500
>>>Subject: Steve Bassett For 'President' #3

>>>Steve Bassett is off to a great start! He's gotten a _great_
>>>boost, but the battle ain't over even when the battle is over!
>>>The point is that the kind of struggle that we're _all_ in, and
>>>that Mr. Bassett (now in this lucky spotlight!) has been
>>>fighting steadily for over five years, is not a struggle
>>>remotely forgiving of inattention or complacency. It's like
>>>building a dam of sand against a rising tide. Futile, perhaps,
>>>but what else is there! It remains that we have to keep pushing
>>>until there's nothing left to push against. We're, forward
>>>thinking, Human Beings! It's what we do! Besides... if we're
>>>diligent and focused? ...Tides DO recede!

>It's probably important to keep in mind that this is a "Mock"
>election for a "Mock Presidential Race", and is entertainment
>and not reality.

Ordinarily? You'd be right. In this case though, a case of
fumbling inanity between the officious hyper-religious neo-cons
on the one hand and Republican-lite on the other (the same beast
with two heads), a new standard of fantasy has been achieved,
and _that_ standard exceeds the fantasy of even a "Showtime"
prime-time television program. Steven Bassett is the more 'real'
entertainment, and it's clear to me, at any rate, which is the
real fantasy and which is the fanciful reality.

>Steve is likely to be viewed as just another
>fanciful charactor trying to claim fifteen minutes of fame on
>national television.

Still - it's an opportunity to get mainstream/prime-time light
on a subject that has not gotten same in 50 plus years. I
suspect Mr. Bassett will be able to push past the limitations of
a fanciful character and garner considerably more than the usual
15 minutes.

>How this will impact ufology is a question
>that has yet to be answered, and in the case of most newspaper
>articles that end up in the Style or Entertainment sections of
>the paper, they've been of little help in gaining credibility
>among the general public.

Well -- everything else has been tried to make some kind of
impact on Ufology. I think it unlikely that _this_, a prime-time
airing of real-world ufological issues, will provide any more
damage than anything else that has been tried.

>While interesting, this "Race" shouldn't be blown out of
>proportion.

I think we ought to try to blow this up to any proportion we can
get it to, Mr. K. Have you been over to hit Steve's support
button? [g].

alienview.nul

EXPLORE "AlienViewGroup" at its HostPros URL.
http://www.alienview.net


JOHN FORD RESTORATION FUND -- John will be released eventually.
He'll need a tax free cash stake to get on his feet. Let's put
one together for him; the bigger it is -- the more attention
he gets. It could have been you. E-mail for detail.
$450.00 pledged -- $300.00 collected!

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite.
What others see from afar, I leave far behind me."
- Giordano Bruno, scourged by the scabrously specious scurrilous.








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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   Apr > Apr 15

                Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers -

From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul>
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 08:30:00 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 09:47:36 -0400
Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers -


>From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 21:42:46 -0700
>Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers

>>From: Eleanor White <eleanor.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 17:31:29 -0400
>>Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers

>>I'd like to add a comment about the alien autopsy film.

>>What struck me, a non-UFO-researcher, about that film is that
>>the actions of removing organs went _way_ too fast to be
>>credible. I would guess that a genuine alien body would be
>>dissected very slowly, something like an archaeolgical site.

>The entire procedure took about an hour and forty-five minutes
>from the time the creature's is first viewed to the brain
>extraction. There are reasons to believe that this wasn't the
>surgeons' first encounter with these creatures.

>>The doctors in the film were working at a speed which seemed
>>more like some kind of 'production line' procedure.

>It didn't seem that way to me, but it certainly wasn't an
>archaeological dig.


Folks - with all respect, but in my best Sam Kinnison...
"Aaaaaaaaaaa!!! Aaaaaaaaaa!!!" Pause for thoughtful
reflection... "Aaaaaaaaaa! <LOL> You'll notice The "RAMer" has
popped up again, and Reed too. It's like in "Ghostbusters"!
...Some weird confluence of cosmic energies have combined to
make the 'fanciful' live or live again in the 'real' world. <g>

alienview.nul

EXPLORE "AlienViewGroup" at its HostPros URL.
http://www.alienview.net


JOHN FORD RESTORATION FUND -- John will be released eventually.
He'll need a tax free cash stake to get on his feet. Let's put
one together for him; the bigger it is -- the more attention he
gets. It could have been you. E-mail for detail. $450.00 pledged
-- $300.00 collected!

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite.
What others see from afar, I leave far behind me."
- Giordano Bruno, scourged by the scabrously specious scurrilous.








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   Apr > Apr 15

                 Re: The Mystery of Sedna's 'Missing Moon' -

From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul>
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 09:31:11 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
Fwd Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 10:48:51 -0400
Subject: Re: The Mystery of Sedna's 'Missing Moon' -


>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 19:24:32 -0400
>Subject: The Mystery of Sedna's 'Missing Moon'

>NASA Science News for April 14, 2004

>Astronomers examining Hubble Space Telescope images of distant
>Sedna say the planetoid is even more mysterious than they first
>thought.

>FULL STORY at:

>http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2004/14apr_sedna2.htm?list159275

Hi Everyone!

Our understanding about the formation and dynamics of planets
and other bodies in our own inner solar system is still far from
complete and to try to extrapolate what we already know or
assume to newly discovered objects orbiting our Sun or even
bodies orbiting other stars will likely lead to disappointment.
Science is still evolving with each discovery so it is only the
hard-core believers and the arrogant that are disturbed and
surprised when their faith is shown, once again, that is not
absolute.

Then again, if Sedna is just one of many such large objects past
Neptune, it may have had one or more very close encounters with
these objects in its history, and its moons could have been lost
becoming planetoids around the Sun or being captured by some
other large object, much like Neptune's moon Triton with its
very unusual orbit and direction of rotation.


Nick Balaskas








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             Re: Another Sonora California Encounter - Stanford

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 09:52:24 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 11:39:37 -0400
Subject: Re: Another Sonora California Encounter - Stanford


>From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO <hbccufo.nul>
>To: UFO Updates <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 21:55:34 -0800
>Subject: Another Sonora California Encounter & Scoop Mark Photos

>I posted a report earlier about a sighting that just took place
>in Sonora, California. What I didn't realize is that the man who
>reported the sighting - his brother - also had another close
>encounter and received more marks on his body. The new photos
>can be viewed, at the top of the page, at:

>http://www.hbccufo.com/index.php

Hello List members interested in that pattern found on a
California woman's arm one morning, to which Brian Vike kindly
linked us on 4-4-04.

Did you see the image processing I did to bring out the parts of
the pattern that are hardly visible, and those that seem (at
least to my perception) invisible via the unaided eye, which
Brian Vike has more recently kindly posted on his website? If
not, you might find it interesting to have a look, because it
seems possible that the pattern revealed might be taken to
adequately explain in a prosaic way the faint red patterns on
the arm of a California woman who contacted Brian Vike and
kindly sent him the image(s).

If not, please click on the link, below, and carefully read down
the page as the account, images, and discussion continue:

http://www.hbccufo.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=1158&mode=&ord

In fact, you may find what the image processing shows of real
interest even if you do not accept the prosaic explanation which
the resultant(s) suggest to me.

It was necessary for me to work from the low-resolution images
initially provided on Brian's website because he had no higher-
resolution versions. Had higher resolution images from which to
proceed been available, the resultant detail might have proven
much more detailed, but even with those low-resolution images as
my starting point, those of you unfamiliar with image processing
will possibly be amazed at how much detail such processing can
provide us for study and interpretation.

The triangular or sub-triangular (partially triangular) pattern
that is rendered visible in the second series of processed
images (as you scroll to those last and smaller-sized images)
was brought out despite the fact that it was incredibly subtle
and visible only by tonal variation across the arm and not by
color differences, as is the case with the patterns of reddened
spots. For that reason, different 'filters' have been used in
the process. I am aware that triangular shapes have been
presented in reported abduction cases that could conceivably
have had a less prosaic explanation (perhaps beginning with Aime
MIchel's case of "Dr."), but should point out that in all other
cases known to me of triangular patterns on human skin after
possible abductions, those patterns were of color variation and
not just skin-tone variation as was the case with this
'triangle'. I suspect that this partial triangle could have
resulted from something of quite common nature that might have
pressed against the woman's arm (temporarily reducing capillary
blood content) only moments before without her even noticing
that very subtle tonal pattern, or perhaps it is just a pattern
of greater light off some reflective object such as a bathroom
mirror (because the photos were taken in a bathroom - note the
bathroom tiles in the broader photo) or through the corner of a
window in the morning.

Finally, I would point out that if researchers into alleged
optical images of reportedly mysterious sky objects, per se, do
not use such image-processing techniques (and other more
sophisticated ones that are available) to look for patterns that
might reveal (and, thus, enable interpretation) propulsion
physics that could conceivably be involved, they may be
completely 'missing the boat'. Of course, such techniques are
useful in revealing support line(s) on models, or other things
that might suggest a fake photo or film, but when we have good
image(s) in credible cases, we must go far beyond looking for
support lines. Let us look for the presence of any truly
anomalous object's propulsion patterns, too. But, a big caveat:
I would caution against wide-eyed amateurs and diploma-mill
Ph.Ds applying unscientific analysis or interpretations to any
anomalous patterns detected. We must work in this with qualified
physicists and aerospace engineers. Therein exists a potential
for discoveries that could conceivably provide UFO studies a
quantum leap into the pages of the journals of mainstream
science.

Stanton Friedman, Jim McCampbell, and other scientific UFO
researchers have been mentioning for years that UFOs may employ
exotic physics and high-energy plasmas in, for example,
magnetohydrodynamic propulsion. IMO, the photographic evidence
of such has been lurking, unrecognized by most researchers, in
at least a few publicly known photos and films for years now.

Thanks to Brian Vike for providing this analytical opportunity
and for other interesting accounts and images for us to ponder
on his website.


Ray Stanford

"You know my method. It is founded upon the observance of
trifles." -- Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery








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                       UFOs Believed Sighted Over Iran

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 07:13:25 -0700
Fwd Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 11:41:24 -0400
Subject: UFOs Believed Sighted Over Iran


Source: The Herald Sun

http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5478,9293099%255E1702,00.ht
ml

15-04-04

UFOs believed sighted over Iran
From correspondents in Tehran

Residents of northern Iran have reported a string of
Unidentified Flying Objects (UFOs) moving at low altitudes and
emitting different colours, the state news agency IRNA reported
today.

A resident of the northwestern city of Tabriz, Saina Haghkish,
was quoted as saying she saw one object flashing red, green and
blue moving slowly from the east to west late yesterday.

Identical sightings were also reported on Monday, Tuesday and
Wednesday over the northeastern town of Ghonbad-Kavous, situated
on the opposite southeastern edge of the Caspian Sea.

But astronomy professor Ajab Shirizadeh told IRNA that while the
presence over the Islamic republic of extra-planetary craft could
not be ruled out, the sightings could also be attributed to spy
or communications satellites.








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                 Re: The Mystery of Sedna's 'Missing Moon' -

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 11:37:01 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 12:37:06 -0400
Subject: Re: The Mystery of Sedna's 'Missing Moon' -


>From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 09:31:11 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
>Subject: Re: The Mystery of Sedna's 'Missing Moon'

>>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 19:24:32 -0400
>>Subject: The Mystery of Sedna's 'Missing Moon'

>>NASA Science News for April 14, 2004

>>Astronomers examining Hubble Space Telescope images of distant
>>Sedna say the planetoid is even more mysterious than they first
>>thought.

>>FULL STORY at:

>>http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2004/14apr_sedna2.htm?list159275

>Our understanding about the formation and dynamics of planets
>and other bodies in our own inner solar system is still far from
>complete and to try to extrapolate what we already know or
>assume to newly discovered objects orbiting our Sun or even
>bodies orbiting other stars will likely lead to disappointment.
>Science is still evolving with each discovery so it is only the
>hard-core believers and the arrogant that are disturbed and
>surprised when their faith is shown, once again, that is not
>absolute.

>Then again, if Sedna is just one of many such large objects past
>Neptune, it may have had one or more very close encounters with
>these objects in its history, and its moons could have been lost
>becoming planetoids around the Sun or being captured by some
>other large object, much like Neptune's moon Triton with its
>very unusual orbit and direction of rotation.


Who said anything about, to use your own words, anyone being,
"...disturbed..."?  "Intrigued" might have been a justified
description, and the word, "baffled" was used in the NASA News
item, but I do not think it proper to project fictional words or
emotions into scientists' reactions and then condescendingly run
them down for the fictional state of mind, accusing (albeit
unjustly) unnamed persons of being (to also use your words),
"...hard-core believers and the arrogant...".


Ray Stanford

"You know my method. It is founded upon the observance of
trifles." -- Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery








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                Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers -

From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais.nul>
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 18:06:00 +0200
Fwd Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 13:06:08 -0400
Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers -


>From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 09:18:13 -0500
>Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers

>>From: Joachim Koch <lists.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 14:41:28 +0100
>>Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers

>>It was all deliberately planned. Is this so difficult to
>>recognize?

>I don't know. I think it's difficult to draw any solid
>conclusions by guessing at other people's possible motives. I do
>get suspicious about the odd connections between the Alien
>Autopsy footage and the Philip Corso book, which should be two
>completely separate things. But I don't know what to make of it.

>The whole six-fingers notion, for instance. I don't recall
>anywhere else in the popular literature where aliens are
>mentioned as having six fingers. And then suddenly in the course
>of a couple years, two things pop up that have that detail.
>That, to me, has a strong disinformation stink about it. But
>what is being disinformed? The film, or the book? Was the book
>created to keep us barking up the wrong tree? The tree offered
>by the AA?
>
>The alien(s) itself is problematic. Why is it so obviously
>"wrong?" It vaguely resembles a Steven Spielberg alien, but only
>vaguely. Someone familiar enough with the UFO literature would
>know that their alien doesn't match any of the descriptions of
>the Roswell aliens, which are generally described as much more
>human-like. It's not human enough to match the descriptions of
>the contactees of the 1950's. It doesn't really match the Betty
>and Barney Hill descriptions. It doesn't exactly match anything.
>Why? It would be simple enough to create an accurate "Grey,"
>using the descriptions and drawings in Bud Hopkins's book. If
>the film was actually created as a propaganda tool in the late
>1940's or early 1950's, the alien in it pre-dates any known
>description of an alien of that general type. Around that time,
>the aliens were a lot more scary. Like in the George Pal's "War
>of the Worlds." The Alien Autopsy aliens look sad and weak and
>not a threat at all.

>Anyway, if the goal was to deliberately mislead us, why make it
>so easy for us to dismiss the film? Or the Corso book? I can't
>figure that out. It makes me start to wonder, in reverse, that
>if one was created to discredit the other, was it because we're
>barking up the RIGHT tree? That becomes another possibility. So
>I'm back to not knowing anything again.

To Tim and All

I think that you have made some very good remarks here. Again,
the scenario of the announcement (during the winter), first
showings (first version on April 25 to a few persons, second
version on May 5, not to mention the curious trick of the tent
footage) and then the full public release just before the GAO
report, in July. In France, there was an all out attack in the
press, led by sociologist Pierre Lagrange, in the popular montly
"Science et Vie" of August 1st, and in the trendy daily
"Liberation" a week later, mixing everything : Roswell, the GAO
report and the autopsy, and saying that the GAO had accepted the
Mogul explanation ! As for the AAF, it denounced the "green
blood" as a proof of the hoax ! This ridiculous detail was
copied bravely by many papers. One magazine, "L'evenement du
Jeudi" said that the GAO report had revealed the Mogul
explanation. It was a beautiful disaster, maybe a well planned
operation.

Now, about the story of the cameraman, I don't believe one word
of it. And that extends to the "revelation" of the Socorro crash
site.


Gildas Bourdais








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                 Re: UFOs Believed Sighted Over Iran - Shell

From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 11:41:30 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 13:07:48 -0400
Subject: Re: UFOs Believed Sighted Over Iran - Shell


>From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 07:13:25 -0700
>Subject: UFOs Believed Sighted Over Iran

>http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5478,9293099%255E1702,00.h
tml

>UFOs believed sighted over Iran
>From correspondents in Tehran

Thank God we can safely rule out any clandestine military fly-
overs!








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                 The WHY? Files Network Additions & Updates

From: Geoffrey Richardson <geoff.nul>
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 18:25:54 +0100
Fwd Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 06:32:05 -0400
Subject: The WHY? Files Network Additions & Updates


The WHY? Files Network

There have been many updates and additional files added to "The
WHY? Files"

Pilots' Sightings - Some significant sightings including audio files.

Black Triangles - including video and audio files.

Updates to:
The Phoenix Lights, V-Shaped UFOs, Animal Mutilations(South American UFO Flap)
etc....

http://www.thewhyfiles.co.uk

Plus:

Colin (Bad Man) Bennett presents "The Combat Diaries" - The
Alternative Fortean Times.

The "Bad Man" of Ufology - Colin Bennett - raises his fist at
the contemporary UFO culture, presenting in his own unique
manner, a series of thought provoking discussions, no holds
barred.

"Combat Diary 18" - at The WHY? Files Network
http://www.thewhyfiles.co.uk


Geoff Richardson







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                      Great Orme Is A Hotspot For UFOs

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 06:36:10 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 06:36:10 -0400
Subject: Great Orme Is A Hotspot For UFOs




Source: The Daily Post -   Llandudno Junction, Conwy, Wales

http://icnorthwales.icnetwork.co.uk/news/regionalnews/tm_objectid=14150593%26met
hod=full%26siteid=50142%26headline=great-orme-is-a-hotspot-for-ufos-name_page.ht
ml

Great Orme Is A Hotspot For UFOs

Apr 15 2004

North Wales Weekly News

There have been no reports of little green men landing there,
but it seems the Great Orme in Llandudno is a hotspot for UFO
sightings.

Author and ufologist Nick Pope has recently compiled a list of
the top 40 vantage points for sightings, and it seems the Orme
comes in at number three, although quite how Mr Pope came to
this conclusion is a little unclear, as he admits there is no
true system for recording data.

However, he claims that, during research for a booklet on the
subject to accompany a television advertising campaign for Dutch
lager Grolsch, a number of references to sightings of UFOs from
the Orme were uncovered.

Mr Pope, who is widely respected in UFO circles and ran the
Ministry of Defence's UFO desk from 1991-94, commented: "It is
difficult to arrive at a precise number of sightings in any one
place as there is no central data collection point.

"We must also take into account widespread under-reporting due
to fear of ridicule, and the fact most people are unsure where
to submit reports.

"However, the listed hotspots exhibit up to 20 more sightings
than anywhere else."

In first place in the league table is Bonnybridge in East
Kilbride, Scotland, followed by Cley Hill, Wiltshire, and then
the Orme. Manchester, Liverpool, and Denbigh are also in the top
25.







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                          Secrecy News -- 04/15/04

From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood.nul>
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 13:42:58 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 06:37:39 -0400
Subject: Secrecy News -- 04/15/04


SECRECY NEWS
from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy
Volume 2004, Issue No. 37
April 15, 2004


**      TENET CALLS FOR PUBLIC DEBATE ON INTELLIGENCE BUDGET
**      DOD BLOCKS SECURITY CLEARANCE FOR IRANIAN-AMERICAN
**      1995 GORELICK MEMO DECLASSIFIED
**      SENSITIVE SECURITY INFORMATION
**      CRITICAL INFRASTRUCTURE INFORMATION CONFERENCE
**      THE TEN MOST WANTED DOCUMENTS OF 2004


TENET CALLS FOR PUBLIC DEBATE ON INTELLIGENCE BUDGET

Director of Central Intelligence George J. Tenet said it will be
necessary to conduct a public debate on intelligence spending in
order to overcome erratic budgeting practices and to build
public support for intelligence.

"This, I think, is a debate that has to be joined quite
publicly," Tenet told the 9-11 Commission on April 14.

Up to now, Tenet has not been an advocate of public debate on
such matters.  It has long been his Agency's position that not
even a single total intelligence spending figure can be
routinely declassified.

Tenet himself swore under oath last year that public disclosure
of the 2002 intelligence budget total would pose an unacceptable
threat to national security and would jeopardize intelligence
methods.

But in retrospect, it is clear that such budget secrecy has not
served the interests of U.S. intelligence.  Not only has secrecy
impaired public awareness of the role of intelligence, it has
left intelligence funds vulnerable to diversion into competing
military programs.

"Let's get budgeting on a two- or three-year cycle," Tenet
urged, responding to comments from 9-11 Commissioner John F.
Lehman.  "Let's allow us to build programs in depth.  Let's
really look at basic expenditures over the course of time. Let's
put the metrics in place.  But I'll tell you, you can't build
this community in fits and starts.  It won't happen and the
country will suffer.  And you know, this, I think, is a debate
that has to be joined quite publicly."

"Everybody talks about military capability or law enforcement
capability.  Well, we sit behind the green door.  And for the
bang for the buck, the American taxpayer gets a hell of a lot
for what we give them."

"And you know, we ought to find a way to talk to the American
people about it as well, because I think they'd be supportive,"
Tenet said.

But so far, "finding a way to talk to the American people" about
the comparative benefits of intelligence spending does not
include any reference to the amount of funds spent.

DCI Tenet declared under penalty of perjury that disclosing a
single total budget number could damage national security and
compromise intelligence methods in a March 2003 declaration:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/foia/2002/tenet.html

CIA classification officials, who seem to have utterly lost
their bearings, even claim that 50 year old intelligence budget
figures must remain classified.  The subject is in litigation.


DOD BLOCKS SECURITY CLEARANCE FOR IRANIAN-AMERICAN

A naturalized American citizen who was born in Iran has been
improperly denied a security clearance by the Department of
Defense because of his country of origin, a lawsuit filed in
federal court yesterday alleged.

The plaintiff, Mohsen Nikpour, is an electrical engineer whose
employer has classified contracts with the Defense Department.

After the Pentagon initially raised questions about the
propriety of clearing Nikpour, the case was turned over to an
administrative judge, who ruled in favor of granting a
clearance.

That judge determined last year that "In light of all the
circumstances presented by the record in this case, it is
clearly consistent with the national interest to grant
applicant's request for a security clearance."

But in the face of continued Pentagon resistance, the clearance
was later denied on appeal.

"There appears to be a blanket policy of denying a security
clearance to anyone who has family living in Iran," said
attorney Sheldon I. Cohen, who represents Mr. Nikpour.

The lawsuit, filed in the Eastern District of Virginia on April
14, asks the court to override the Pentagon and grant the
clearance.  See:

   http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/2004/04/nikpour041404.pdf

A February 2, 2004, story in Business Week magazine put the
underlying issue this way:  "If You Didn't Come Over On The
Mayflower, You Can't Get A Clearance:  In a rush to tighten
security, the U.S. risks losing its high-tech edge in defense."


1995 GORELICK MEMO DECLASSIFIED

Like classification, declassification can sometimes be driven by
political factors more than by national security considerations.

In the latest example, the Department of Justice spontaneously
declassified a secret 1995 memorandum last weekend.  The memo
became public just in time for Attorney General Ashcroft to use
it to challenge the impartiality of its author, then-Deputy
Attorney General Jamie S. Gorelick, who is now a member of the
9-11 Commission.

The newly declassified memo, entitled "Instructions on
Separation of Certain Foreign Counterintelligence and Criminal
Investigations," is available here:

http://www.fas.org/irp/agency/doj/1995_gorelick_memo.pdf


SENSITIVE SECURITY INFORMATION

A relatively new part of the growing thicket of official
controls on unclassified information is the category known as
"sensitive security information," which refers to restricted
information involving transportation security.

The application of "sensitive security information" controls to
U.S. Coast Guard information is addressed in this March 26 Coast
Guard Q and A (thanks to RT):

http://www.fas.org/sgp/othergov/dod/uscg_ssi.pdf


CRITICAL INFRASTRUCTURE INFORMATION CONFERENCE

American University will host a conference May 14-16 on the
impact and implications of controls on "critical infrastructure
information."

"Newly implemented Homeland Security regulations place
significant new restrictions on Critical Infrastructure
Information, including basic information about cities,
environmental hazards, transportation and energy," according to
the conference announcement.

"Unanswered questions surround what regulations concerning
critical infrastructure actually are in effect, how they are
enforced and how to protect the public's right to know during
crises."

For further information see:

http://american.edu/radiowave/CII_splash.htm


THE TEN MOST WANTED DOCUMENTS OF 2004

OpenTheGovernment.org, a new coalition that "seeks to advance
the public's right to know and to reduce secrecy in government,"
today released its first annual survey of "The Ten Most Wanted
Documents."

The survey highlights documents of particular public interest
that have nevertheless been withheld from public access.

Today's release was the inaugural event of
OpenTheGovernment.org, which seeks to galvanize public support
for open, accountable government.

"We are witnessing a broad expansion of government secrecy that
runs counter to our core democratic values," said Rick Blum,
coordinator of the new coalition. "We must reverse this course
so the public can access the information it needs to hold our
government accountable, make our families safer, and generally
strengthen democracy."

A report on "the ten most wanted documents" and other
information on the new coalition are now available here:

http://openthegovernment.org/



_______________________________________________
Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the
Federation of American Scientists.

To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to
secrecy_news-request.nul
with "subscribe" in the body of the message.

OR email your request to saftergood.nul

Secrecy News is archived at:
http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html

_______________________
Steven Aftergood
Project on Government Secrecy
Federation of American Scientists
web:    www.fas.org/sgp/index.html
email:  saftergood.nul
voice:  (202) 454-4691








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   Apr > Apr 16

                    A New UFO Magazine - UFO Monthly.com

From: Philip Mantle <suemantle.nul>
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 02:14:27 +0100
Fwd Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 06:39:24 -0400
Subject: A New UFO Magazine - UFO Monthly.com

-----


Following previous contact with me at the PRUFOS Police Database
I thought you might be interested to know that following the
demise of UFO Magazine I am in the process of launching a 30
glossy internet magazine called UFO Monthly.com.

The first issue will go out on April 27th 2004 and will be free.

Thereafter it will cost =A31.50 to download each month.

The magazine will be downloaded in PDF format.

Russel Callaghan has joined me in the new enterprise.

It will be there to serve both the researcher and enthusiast
alike.

Check out www.ufomonthly.com for further information.


Thank you

Gary Heseltine
The PRUFOS Police Database








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                Peculiar 04-15-04 Sighting In Orlando Forida

From: Peter Davenport - NUFORC <director.nul>
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 13:53:51 -0700
Fwd Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 06:46:47 -0400
Subject: Peculiar 04-15-04 Sighting In Orlando Forida



To the List:

The National UFO Reporting Center just received a very
interesting sighting report from a woman in Orlando, FL, which I
thought the members of the List might like to be apprised of.

I spoke at length with the witness, and she seemed to me to be
quite lucid and objective in her description of the alleged
sighting.  She estimated that the object she sighted was
approximately the size of a basketball, or a bit smaller.  She
emphasized how suddenly and quickly the object streaked away
from her window, when the stray cat first noticed the object,
and began approaching it.  The window was open, and the witness
viewed the object through a screen.

I copy below the written report from the witness.

Regards,

Peter B. Davenport, Director
National UFO Reporting Center
P. O. Box 45623
University Station
Seattle, WA  98145
E-Mail:  director.nul
Web:     www.UFOCENTER.com
Reporting Hotline:  (206) 722-3000


[Report Begins]

"Description: At approximately 6:00 a.m. today [15AP04 --
NUFORC] I awoke to take our dog for her early morning
constitutional. Everyone in the house knows I have a thing for
looking out of the windows when I first wake up, maybe to make
certain the World is still here... anyway, I walked across the
living room and looked out of the window behind the love seat.

At first, I thought it was a bird... but, I realized that birds
don't glow. Then I looked more closely at the shape...kind of
oval, but more like when you cup your hands and put them
together, and roughly twice that size...the difference being
that where your fingertips would come together, there was a dark
wedge shape dividing the 2 halves, but only half way down. I
didn't see any head, or tail, nor feet...just this shape. And
the glowing was a muted glow, not bright, and the color was
somewhere between a light grey and white. And it was pulsating,
but only slightly.

The next thing I know, one of the stray kittens we feed came
bounding around the corner of the house and pounced at it...
that is when I became absolutely certain it was not a bird. It
moved so fast, from a completely stationary position, faster
than anything I have ever seen move, at least in person and not
on the big screen.....

The pattern of its movement was a sloppy zig-zag, and it moved
at about the height of the cat's head... maybe 10 inches off the
ground. After about 2 zigs and one zag, all the while staying
ahead of the cat, they both disappeared around the corner of
another house...

Again, as it moved, there was no sound... no tail... no wings...
and nothing that could have been a head... it retained its
"cupped hands" shape the entire time.

I went to see if I could find any trace of it, and there was
nothing."

[Report Ends]






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                  Re: Was This A UFO Over Uldale UK? - Hale

From: Roy Hale <roy.nul>
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 22:46:43 +0100
Fwd Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 06:49:03 -0400
Subject: Re: Was This A UFO Over Uldale UK? - Hale



>From: Joe McGonagle <joe.mcgonagle.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 23:50:53 +0100
>Subject: Was This A UFO Over Uldale UK?


>Was This A UFO Over Uldale Cumbria, UK?

>Chris Parr asked me to forward this on to the List:

>http://www.newsandstar.co.uk/opinion/viewarticle.asp?c=171&id=89545

<snip>

Dear Listers,

Isn't Chris Parr of Cumbria one of Sharon Larkins biggest critics?

http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2003/dec/m22-005.shtml

http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2003/apr/m28-017.shtml

http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2004/mar/m24-017.shtml

http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2004/mar/m28-006.shtml


>Maybe this photo will aid the research of Cumbria's UFO
>investigator Sharon Larkin.

One begins to think there is a tribal rivalry afoot in Cumbria,
depending on where you feel the spotlight duth shine!

Still, one would presume UK ufology would not be the same
without it!


Roy








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                     3 New Sightings Maps By UFO Shapes

From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 14:30:05 -0700
Fwd Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 06:50:47 -0400
Subject: 3 New Sightings Maps By UFO Shapes


Hello all:

I have put up three new Thematic UFO maps on this menu
online:

http://www.larryhatch.net/THEMEMAPS.html

There is one each for USA (with Southern Canada), Europe
and South America. Look for "UFO Maps by Shape".

Each of these is a "layered" map. Three generalized UFO
shapes are overlaid in colors. "Saucers" are all kinds
of disks, cones, ovoids, plates and spheres lumped together.

"Cigars" are elongated cylinders, wingless fuselages,
cigar and cigarette shapes.

A third color indicates angular shapes: flying triangles,
deltoids, diamonds, rectangles etc.

Here are the direct URLs to save time.
There is a short commentary with each map:

United States: http://www.larryhatch.net/SCDUSA.html

Europe: http://www.larryhatch.net/SCDEUR.html

South America: http://www.larryhatch.net/SCDSAM.html

I reworked the colors for better visibility. The three general
UFO forms seem attracted to certain countries and areas. I have
no idea why.

Comments and suggestions are always welcome.


Best wishes

- Larry Hatch









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                    Re: Fatal Plane Crash Mystery - McCoy

From: GT McCoy <gtmccoy.nul>
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 07:17:30 -0700
Fwd Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 07:06:56 -0400
Subject: Re: Fatal Plane Crash Mystery - McCoy


>From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>To: <- UFO UpDates Subscribers -> <ufo-updates.nul>
>date: Wednesday, April 14, 2004 9:29 PM
Subject: Fatal Plane Crash Mystery


>Source: The Mobile Register - Alabama

http://www.al.com/news/mobileregister/index.ssf?/base/news/1081934216102960.xml

>Fatal Plane Crash Mystery

>Feds: Cessna hit something in the sky, but they don't know what

<snip


Hello all,

I'm going to comment on this as I did exactly this sort of thing
back in the 80's-flying air courier/frieght/mail/Bichon Frise'
stud pups - that's another story.....

This whole thing stinks like last Tuesday's flounder. I keep
thinking of TWA Flight 800.....

You will see I am a bit cynical here.

>Federal investigators have determined that a single-engine
>delivery plane that crashed into Big Bateau Bay on Oct. 23,
>2002, slammed into something 3,000 feet above the Mobile-Tensaw
>Delta moments earlier - they're just not sure what it was.

If as shown below you hit something with that kind of
force, where is the object that you hit?

>The highly unusual National Transportation Safety Board account
>points to unidentified red marks on the severely damaged nose
>and front belly of the plane as evidence that it hit another
>object in the air. The crash killed 54-year-old pilot Thomas J.
>Preziose of Mobile minutes after he took off from Downtown
>Airport.

>Agency officials "don't know of any other accident that we have
>in our files that states 'collision with an unknown object,'"
>said Keith Holloway, a spokesman for the NTSB, which
>investigates all domestic air accidents.

My own experience with the NTSB - I've been a witness to a few
Airtanker Crashes,and Small Aircraft crashes. It's surprising
that they just didn't say:"Pilot Error" and walk away.
(Including the shedding of a C-119 wing-Pilot Error - OK.)


>"I've never seen a report like that," said Don Godwin, a veteran
>pilot and chief executive officer of Mid-Atlantic Freight, which
>owned the plane. "And it's very troubling to have something like
>this happen and not know what caused it. I know the family's
>upset, and understandably upset. It's just a great thing that
>this kind of thing didn't happen to an airliner with a bunch of
>people on it."

Well, maybe it has....

>The report, released within the past few days, also notes that
>malfunctioning radar recording equipment hampered efforts to
>determine the exact cause of the accident. Moreover, an air
>traffic controller at Mobile Regional Airport apparently gave
>incorrect positions to Preziose about the location of a DC-10 in
>the area, according to the recently released report, officially
>called a finding of facts.

<snip>

How curious, the old "Technical Malfunction in the Equipment"
excuse. This is where things get a little fishy.

>A Federal Aviation Administration official at Mobile Regional
>Airport said Tuesday afternoon he wasn't aware of any equipment
>malfunctions. He deferred further comment to officials who had
>left for the day.

Should always ask questions before 4:30 - this "offical"
could've been the jantior for all the media types know.

>The five-page report states that the FedEx DC-10 doesn't appear
>to have been involved in the collision; investigators examined
>it the day after the crash and found it unscathed. That lack of
>damage, however, deepens the mystery as to what happened to
>Preziose's Cessna 208B Cargomaster.

>Experienced pilot:

>Preziose was a veteran pilot for the New York City Police
>Department and had been an instructor on the Cessna 208 for the
>Pan Am Flight Academy in Memphis, according to the report. He
>had worked for several months for Mid-Atlantic Freight, the
>company contracting with DHL, and had flown the same route
>numerous times. An autopsy revealed no drugs or alcohol in his
>system.

This poor guy was out just doing his job in a good, reliable
aircaft. The 208 caravan revolutonized the Air Freight industry -
as opposed to some of the ancient junk I flew. I was a lot more
comfortable flying old Douglas Propliners, as Aerial Tankers.

<snip>

>About 10 minutes after takeoff, Preziose, using the call sign
>"Night Ship 282," switched from talking to the control tower at
>Brookley to the FAA tower at Mobile Regional Airport, a standard
>procedure, according to Bay Haas, executive director of the
>Mobile Airport Authority. His agency maintains and staffs the
>Brookley tower, while the FAA operates the Mobile Regional
>tower, he said.

>A DC-10 ahead:

>As Preziose climbed northeast through the overcast sky, relying
>on instruments to take him to his cruising altitude of 3,000
>feet, the Mobile Regional controller alerted him to the presence
>of the DC-10, which was seven miles straight in front of him,
>flying at 4,000 feet and inbound for Brookley, according to a
>transcript of the chatter contained in the report. Preziose
>acknowledged it.

>A minute later, the controller told Preziose the DC-10, now just
>two miles from the Cessna, had crossed the smaller plane's path
>and remained at 4,000 feet.

Question: Was the Cessna, still on instruments or "On top" of
the cloud deck?

>"Roger, I got him above me right now," Preziose replied,
>apparently confirming he saw the FedEx plane.

Now, as a former commerical pilot, one tends to be worried about
wake-turbulence from  larger Aircaft. This could be the reason
the pilot said what he did:

>But seconds later, the report states, he came back on the air:
>"I needed to deviate, I needed to deviate, I needed to deviate,
>I needed --

However.

>A commercial frog hunter in an airboat assisting Alabama Marine
>Police and Coast Guard crews found the wreckage around midnight,
>resting in shallow water, about 1 miles north of the Mobile Bay
>Causeway. The wings were shattered, and most of the front of the
>plane was little more than fragments.

As one who exerienced wake-turbulence - being nearly rolled
upside in Grumman/American Tr-2 - little two-seat putt-putt -
being put behind a Boeing 727 on final for another airport -
Tri-Cities Wa. The 727 was, not visible due to the cloud cover,
and I was simply landing at a smaller, field about 2 miles away.
Note: _no_ RADAR was used. I became a bit of an expert on wake-
turblence avoidance. What happened here was not due to wake-
turbluence.

>"The impact of that collision disintegrated that airplane before
>it hit the water out there," Godwin said.

>Engine split in half:

>The Pratt & Whitney engine block was split in two, the report
>states. Godwin called that a strong indicator of a violent
>impact.

>"That's a big deal. That airplane could fall out of the sky and
>hit concrete and it's unlikely it would've broken the engine in
>half like that."

This is the most telling - the PT-6 is one of the best aero
engines ever made. Stone/anvil, reliable, and about as
complicated. I have only seen one failure, in my near 10,000
hours. That was due to operator - my old boss - stupidity. Also,
I have seen PT-6's that hit the ground, due to collision - not
one split as decribed. I've been to PT-6 school by the way.

>The NTSB report details the agency's attempts to find the source
>of the red marks on the Cessna. Investigators sent fragments
>with the markings to Wright Patterson Air Force Base in Ohio for
>testing. The markings were compared to other materials from the
>plane, including red paint and a red cargo bag. The tests also
>examined paint from an unmanned aerial vehicle, apparently to
>determine whether the Cessna had struck a military drone.

As I recall, wasn't a red stain, paint or something involved
with TWA 800?

>Similar tests were performed by the U.S. Aircraft Insurance
>Group - which took custody of the wreckage in February - with
>similar results, the report states.

>"The main result from the investigation is that the material in
>the red streaks on the skin of the accident airplane was
>significantly different from the other materials that were
>examined for comparison," the report states.

USAIG is normally a good outfit. Also they have a data base on
parts, paint, fuels..... What was this material?

>Additionally, investigators were unable to identify the source
>of "a small piece of what appeared to be black anodized
>aluminum, which was found embedded in the left wing" near the
>fuselage, the report states.

If it _was_ aluminum.

>"There's definitely no chance that that particular incident
>involved one of our drones," said 1st Lt. Sage Park, a
>spokeswoman for the 53rd Wing, which operates unmanned airplanes
>out of Tyndall Air Force Base in the Florida Panhandle.

>Those drones do not fly as far west as the Mobile area, she
>said. A spokeswoman at Eglin Air Force Base, farther west in the
>Panhandle, said squadrons there also generally do their testing
>over the Gulf of Mexico and do not venture into airspace near
>Mobile. Neither of the Air Force officials nor a spokesman at
>Naval Air Station Pensacola could immediately confirm whether
>units based there were conducting aircraft or missile tests when
>the Cessna crashed, although all said it was unlikely for
>various reasons.

Nobody in their right mind would be purposely testing drones
over a busy airspace - unless something wandered 'off-range'.
Again, ther's the issue of the paint and damage.

>The Navy spokesman said the Pensacola station has radar that
>reaches Mobile, although it is generally monitored for activity
>in the Gulf rather than near Mobile. The accident report does
>not indicate whether investigators sought radar data from any of
>the military installations.

Yes, that whole place is covered, TRACON, NORAD, USAF, NAVY,
Various FAA Facilities, not part of TRACON. Oh, give me a
break..... Someone, somewhere had to see whatever hit the
Cessna. Unless... unless, whatever it hit was invisible to
RADAR.

>Based on the limited radar information they could find,
>investigators concluded the Cessna never crossed paths with the
>DC-10, contrary to what the air traffic controller told
>Preziose, the report states. Greg Breedlove, a lawyer with the
>Mobile firm Cunningham Bounds, said his firm has been retained
>by Preziose's family and is examining several possibilities,
>including that the Cessna simply got caught in turbulence caused
>by the FedEx plane.

<snip>

Who to sue, who sue?

No answers, just who's got an insurer that will roll over.
Wake-turbulence does not shred a Cessna Caravan. Or break a PT-6.

>Sam Houston, resident agent in charge of the Drug Enforcement
>Administration office in Mobile, said his agency had no
>information about the accident, although he said he could not
>rule out the possibility that a drug smuggling plane might have
>struck the Cessna.

As I recall, the DEA has one of its RADAR balloons in the area
too.

>"There is active drug smuggling in Alabama, yes, by air," he
>said.

Yes, in small, light Aircraft. If the DC10 - now not close to
the Caravan as previously determined - had caused that kind of
damage, It would've been brought down too.

Whatever hit the Cessna, it was heavy, and fast. Kind of like a
UFO? If a say F-117, that isn't even made of aluminum,for the
most part. there would be Wreckage-somewhere.

<snip>

Folks, there is something not right here. I do hope the family
of the pilot gets closure. Been on receiving end of that myself.
My heart goes out to them.


GT McCoy







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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   Apr > Apr 16

                Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers -

From: John Scheldroup <jschel.nul>
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 21:16:41 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 07:13:01 -0400
Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers -


>From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 15:19:33 -0700
>Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers

>>From: John Scheldroup <jschel.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 13:08:01 -0500
>>Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers

>>>Have you read Dennis Murphy's report on the debris?

>>>http://www.beyondroswell.com/roswell/debris.htm

>>>What do you think of his assessment?

>>Which error??

>My hope was for a thoughtful discussion of Dennis's essay. If
>you have problems with his reasoning or his facts, then reply
>directly, and clearly state your case.

Directly to you, who will read it I wonder?.

CNC engraving example, any similiarty to your own space debris?

http://www.artcaminsignia.com/artcam/insignia/gallery/default.asp?ID=118

>A bunch of links without explanation or clear context is a waste
>of time. Also Dennis was writing with the technology of 1995 or
>1996 in mind.

I doubt CNC or machining technology has changed much since then.

>I can tell that you have not spent much time viewing the AA
>debris. Why not buy an AA CD set and then see how you feel after
>viewing it for awhile.

I do have the VHS recording Ed.

>>DEBRIS MANUFACTURING OPTIONS
>>"The raised lettering would have to be done with a very precise
>>CNC (computer numeric control) machine. When I look at the
>>lettering I see precise rounds as parts of the symbols. I do not
>>think that you can do this with current milling machines."

>>Huh??

>>To think all that knowledge about machining and never heard of a
>>ball endmill <G>

>This is an example. If a "ball endmill" is the answer, I then I
>want a complete explanation. The link below doesn't sufice.

A ball end mill is a flat end mill with a half sphere on the end
that looks something like your finger.

>>http://www.artcaminsignia.com/artcam/insignia/default.asp

>>FILM DETAILS
>>"Anything structural that exhibits a lack of starting and stopping
>>momentum that these objects exhibit must be very light."

>>Huh??

>>Ed, Momentum is conserved. This is not to impart that even in an
>>isolated system of two objects that exchange something to
>>something in one system, but here we got "independent variables"
>>we are simply handling the object back and forth thru the air.

>>When you stop waving thing, you end up having an equal amount
>>momentum as when you started. There is nothing to exchange
>>momentum with besides air friction.. No starting and stopping
>>momentum it is conservatory.

>>Forces to lift bowling balls and marbles??.

>Again why not say what you mean?

The author of the essay makes attempt to describe physical
phenomena of ufo crash debris, is this not open for further
discussion or is it cut and dry in your mind? Notice how blurry
pictures turn ordinary folk into nail biting dips?. Have you
checked his facts with a professional in the field of machining
or an engineering science regarding his stated facts? Anything
at all that we should not question its content for fact?

Have you presented this essay or your evidence to a professional
involved in any physical sciences, would they not be interested?

>My evidence is that the debris

What is the evidence if not big blurry bigfoot with big feet
does anybody even remember him poor guy?

>came from a craft that was at the center of vortex with heat of
>at least 3000C, the melting point of silica, (cristibolite) and
>survived.

Lets put this statement into some perspective. At 3000 C when
converted over to Fahrenheit equals 5432 degrees.

It takes 3 hours to reduce the human body to a few bones and
dust at temperatures close to 2500F in a crematorium.

>We know from the handling of the debris during the
>footage that the debris material has very little mass

How do you know it has " very little mass" What data do you have
that would indicate it has little mass or no mass. Are you going
"mass" to "light weight", so is plastic light weight. You must
have done a spectroanalysis on the object in question, care to
share the specific density of the metal, what trace did you find
or are these not yet part of the periodic table of elements on
earth?

>and we
>also know that some of the debris is melted material. From this
>fact we can also surmise extreme heat.

The element or metal must have a melting point, have you tested
or ran any tests thus far that would tell us such what the melt
range of the material is located at?

>We also know from the crash site that the craft stopped momentarily
>and then abruptly. But some of the occupants still survived.

At 3000C do we suppose the occupants of the spacecraft had a
hard time opening the doors do you think? I nearly burnt my
fingers on the charcoal grill tonight, only because my mits had
holes in the center that a nice sweet lady had knit for me. To
my dissatisfaction they were not intended to be griller pads.

>>FILM DETAILS
>>"Here is a problem for the hoaxer. The bigger I-beam would have
>>to be made out of some type of foam to make it as light as it
>>appears."

>>Nope.

>>http://www.dynacast.com/magnesium/

>How much mass, in in terms of the magnesium on this site, would
>we find in the largest debris section?

I can help with that. What is the debris section volume or even
dimensions in the photo in question, so that I can figure
accordingly to magnesium? Which reminds me, your meausurements
of the i-beam do you care to post the numbers?

>>>>Beyond the meaning of symbols themselves what I can say to some
>>>>degree of certainty is that both symbols do share something in
>>>>common, they were both formed with a punch and an hammer.

>>>I thought the symbols were not indented, but embossed.

>>Clearly someone used the wrong tool then Ed.

>It appears from the debris that the letters are raised. Are you
>saying they are not raised?

They appear to be indented in my judgement of the enhanced photo.

>>http://tinyurl.com/2ves6

>>>Aren't
>>>they "raised symbols" above the flat surface, not carved or
>>>"punched" into it? Or are you saying that the punching somehow
>>>raises the symbols, and this is accomplished while the metal is
>>>still hot? Can you duplicate the process?

>>See above material Ed.

>I did and I'm still confused about what you're saying. Can you
>duplicate this process and come out with an end product that has
>all the qualities of the of the debris material. If not, can you
>produce someone who is willing to try and how much would that
>attempt cost, if I were to pay to have it done?

Someone with an cnc engraver and artcam might be able to help.

Method 2: Several coats of thick paint stenciled on. Or with a
block printing method. Then spray with shiney paint. Safe for
kids to do in the front yard sidewalk. Getting warm Ed <G>


John







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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   Apr > Apr 16

                          A Paradigm Shift At UVA?

From: Larry W. Bryant <overtci.nul>
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 01:03:53 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 07:21:46 -0400
Subject: A Paradigm Shift At UVA?


>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 02:36:26 -0700
>Subject: UFO Displays In Univ. Virginia Astronomy Class

<snip>

Researcher Larry Hatch's post, brings to mind my utter
surprise (and delight) at being invited, back in March 1997, to
speak before a select group of UVA students on my favorite
topic.

Originally published in the spring of 1999 at:

http://www.ufocity.com

the text of that talk retains as much timeliness, relevance, and
inspiration today as it had back then; that's why I'm
resurrecting it now, below.

-----

THE ACADEMIC PAY DIRT IN UFO RESEARCH: Measuring the
Opportunities; Meeting the Challenges

By Larry W. Bryant

An Address:

(Delivered By Larry W. Bryant at a meeting of the Jefferson
Literary and Debating Society at the University of Virginia in
Charlottesville, March 7, 1997.)

An old friend of mine delighted in recounting this observation
from Winston Churchill as regards the three hardest things for a
man to do:

The first is to climb a wall that's leaning toward him;

The second is to kiss a woman who's leaning away from him;

And the third of these most difficult things for a man to do,
according to Churchill, is to give a good after-dinner speech.

Well, thanks to this evening's hospitality from your fellow
students Arun, Margaret, and Scott, I expect not too much
difficulty tonight. And I especially salute Scott Tumperi for
volunteering to pose as our federal government's chief executive
in delivering to you my draft of a "Presidential Statement on
UFO Reality." The stage behind me, with its Oval Office-style
chair, ought to serve well for this purpose. But, first, let me
read to you a few letters sent to me by students somewhat
younger than you:

* "My name is Jay ______. I go to South School in Somerset,
Mass., and I am in Mrs. ______ 's Grade 4. I am in an
independent study group called Spectrum. Spectrum students can
pick any topic to study, and they have to get all the
information and anything else they need on their own. My
Spectrum topic is UFO's and life on other planets. Could you
please help me learn more about UFO's? I can't go to all the UFO
conferences because they cost too much. I hope you can help me.
Please send me any information or anything you can about UFO
sightings, pictures, types of aliens, abductions, mutilations
and what the government is doing about these things. At the end
of the semester all the Spectrum students have a special
showcase of their topics presented to the public. Not everyone
believes me about UFO's. I want to show them we are not alone in
this universe and to be aware of the work going on to solve the
UFO mystery."

* "Hello, my name is Brian _____. I am a 15-year-old sophomore
at Penn Cambria High School (Lilly, Pa.). I have an upcoming
term paper for my English II class. I have decided to do my
paper on the Roswell incident. I was wondering if it would be
possible for you to send me any information concerning this
topic. I knew that due to the controversial views on Roswell
that anything I found in a textbook or encyclopedia would be
very limited and insufficient. Thank you for your time and
consideration, and Godspeed."

* "I am a junior in high school, and I am currently working on a
semester research project about extraterrestrials, unidentified
flying objects, and alien encounters. I have chosen this topic
because I am convinced that we're not the only ones out here,
and I wish to learn more about our neighbors. I would appreciate
any reference material you could send me on these subjects. I
would also like to be able to contact a club member for a
written interview in the form of a questionnaire. I would enjoy
talking with any members in the south Texas area if possible,
and I know my class would love a visit by such a person. Thank
you for your time. I know that with your help I can produce an
excellent report."

* "I am writing a research paper on the deception the United
States Government has committed to its citizens in regards to
UFOs. I am searching for information on this topic. If you would
be able to send me any information, it would be a tremendous
help. Thank you for your time."

* "Hello, my name is Matt ______. I am thirteen and go to Rock
Lake Middle School in Longwood, Fla. In my history class we are
doing a debate on various topics. A friend and I choose to do
one on paranormal phenomena. We are going against two other
classmates. We say that paranormal phenomena doesn't exist and
the government is not covering it up; our opponents are saying
the opposite. If you can please send me any proof that
paranormal phenomena doesn't exist I am sure it could help us
out majorly. Good luck to you and your members, and please try
not to forget."

These letters, and dozens like them coming to me every year,
would try the patience of the late physicist Edward U. Condon.
In his latter days at the University of Colorado, he headed a
team of researchers commissioned by the U.S. Air Force in 1966
to conduct a Scientific Study of Unidentified Flying Objects.
Three years later, his formal report had this to say: "We
strongly recommend that teachers refrain from giving students
credit for school work based on their reading of the presently
available UFO books and magazine articles." Condon simply felt
that the current commercial literature was too sensationalized
and fraught with scientifically unsound material. Nevertheless,
as we've seen, teachers and students continue to be drawn to the
mystery of reported UFO encounters, and to the issue of official
secrecy as regards reports processed through official channels.

One of Dr. Condon's conclusions concerned this very issue: one
that remains at the forefront almost 30 years later: "It has
been contended that the subject has been shrouded in official
secrecy. We conclude otherwise. We have no evidence of secrecy
concerning UFO reports. What has been miscalled secrecy has been
no more than an intelligent policy of delay in releasing data so
that the public does not become confused by premature
publication of incomplete studies and reports."

Perhaps Condon had been duped by his own lack of access to the
hard-core UFO data beyond the contents of the USAF Project Blue
Book. Consider the Bolender Memorandum of Oct. 20, 1969:
"Reports of unidentified flying objects which could affect
national security are made in accordance with Joint Army-Navy-
 Air Publication 146 or Air Force Manual 55-11, and are not part
of the Blue Book system. Brig. Gen. C. H. Bolender was noting
this distinction in his role as a top USAF research-and-
 development specialist at the Pentagon.

One of the USAF documents to which Condon had no access consists
of a then TOP SECRET sighting report dealing with U.S. Sen.
Richard Russell. Back on Oct. 4, 1956, the then chairman of the
Senate Armed Services Committee was on a train trip through the
Soviet Union, along with a military advisor and a committee
consultant. They witnessed two classic "flying saucers"
maneuvering not far from the railroad track. In their subsequent
intelligence debriefing, the Army lieutenant colonel said,
"We've been told for years that there isn't such a thing but all
of us saw it, including Sen. Russell."

And, what would he have said about the UFO-related term papers
produced in the late sixties/early seventies by several Air
Force officers attending advanced studies at the Air University
in Maxwell Air Force Base, Ala.? At least one or two of these
thesis-level papers gave critical marks to the Air Force's
public handling of the UFO Problem.

Next, how about the several Ph.D. dissertations that sprang up
shortly after the Blue Book heyday? One of these - by Dr. David
Jacobs, now a historian at Temple University - went into popular
publication under the title: "The UFO Controversy in America."
He later focused his research on the so-called alien- abduction
phenomenon.

Condon would better have served the interests of objectivity had
he read the 1967 book by journalist Mort Young, titled "UFO: Top
Secret." In it Young makes this telling observation, which holds
true today: "Because all UFO material is supposedly available to
the public, the field of inquiry is open to every citizen of the
United States. Yet when the government is contacted and asked
about UFO's, the knowledge gained is not about UFO's, but about
how the government really operates day to day."

Which brings us to how you and your fellow students can help
resolve the UFO problem while at the same time enhance your
chosen careers. One need not have a college degree to become a
UFO investigator, but it certainly helps. This field of research
draws upon science as a tool, not as a dogma. So here are some
disciplines that can help you contribute to what UFO researchers
are trying to do:

* The hard sciences: physics, math, chemistry, astronomy,
geology, biology, forensic medicine, engineering.

* The social sciences: psychology, sociology, political science.

* Law enforcement and legal studies.

* Philosophy, religion, anthropology.

Any or all this academic preparation can equip you with the
knowledge and experience necessary for conducting serious,
objective, fruitful UFO research. For example, the training
offered by journalism and law enforcement can provide a good
foundation for interviewing UFO witnesses and for evaluating
their accounts. And consider the symbiosis that develops: the
more you get involved in UFO research, the more you put into
practice the classroom knowledge and skills you've been working
so hard to acquire. A win-win situation for your chosen
profession and for the future of UFOlogy. By choosing to enter
this field as a volunteer in field investigation, in report
writing, in physical-trace analysis, in photo-interpretation, in
consulting on technical matters and language translation, or in
library science, for example, you can write your own ticket for
such opportunities as --

* Travel to UFO hot spots worldwide;

* Retrieving and analyzing official UFO documentation;

* Producing oral-history case studies;

* Publishing newsletters;

* Taking part in political activism to promote greater freedom
of official UFO information;

* Assessing UFO-related cultural response of government
agencies, legislative bodies, military organizations, corporate
leaders, and the news media.

Now, how about the challenges you'll be facing when you embark
upon UFO research? Here are some of them:

* Non-cooperation on the part of organized science and academia.
Exhort these critics to rise from their easy chairs to look
beyond the horizon of their own bias.

* Undue secrecy, deception, or outright lying on the part of
government officials in charge of controlling access to official
UFO data. Just remember: the public has a right to know, and the
government has a duty to tell.

* Hoaxes, rumor-mongering, and commercial opportunism on the
part of some unscrupulous persons. This includes some of the
tabloid accounts you see at the supermarket stand. With practice
you'll learn how to recognize, and fend off, this distraction.

* The denial-and-ridicule factor, asserting that UFO research
wastes time and resources, and that you ought to be ashamed of
giving serious thought to any reported UFO encounter. Here, let
the evidence, along with your best effort, speak for itself.

You can meet these challenges the same way I have: through
perseverance, honesty, and the knowledge that pioneers
throughout history from Louis Pasteur to Alexander Graham Bell
have had to deal with the same kind of impediments to progress.
Accept both the challenges and the opportunities as part of your
journey toward solving the UFO mystery. When you thus give of
your talent, your education, and your passion for learning, you
will have helped develop the academic pay dirt in UFO research.

Now, I have a final reference to Winston Churchill. He said: "We
make a living - by what we get, but we make a life by what we
give."

-----

Larry W. Bryant
Director, Washington, D.C., Office
Citizens Against UFO Secrecy
3518 Martha Custis Drive
Alexandria. VA 22302








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   Apr > Apr 16

                      Steve Bassett for 'President' #4

From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul>
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 07:47:10 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 08:56:02 -0400
Subject: Steve Bassett for 'President' #4



Folks!

Boo-ya! Steve Bassett is _hot_ on the trail of the, less than
intrepid, leaders! One leader is a neo-conservative inconstant
with an unconscionable (...and egregious!) inconsistency in the
first two points of her platform (followed by a panoply of non-
reflective reflexives, non-responses, and unthinking
religiosity)! She sure is pretty, though... The number 'one'
spot's held by a 'business major'... and we all know about those
guys - they're focus gets a little too narrow for taste, and
seems to make the rest of the world safe for itself... while
incurring the worried hatred of that same world for its trouble!
Two sure-fires for a threatened, harried and therefore
distractible America? I think not.

This essay is not about them... it's not even, really, about
Steve. It's about us.

...I've been hearing a few things about problems some folks have
been having with a Bassett 'candidacy'. Like, where does he come
from with regard to his ufological advocacy, at all, some have
worried. Some find him untrustworthy or find him 'suspicious'
because of his very sudden appearance on the ufological scene.
Some see his involvement as _the_ 'UFO Lobbyist'... a chronic,
gratuitous, and even shameless self-promotion, and his founding
of an organization (starring himself, ostensibly) is a self-
congratulatory exercise of self-involved news releases
announcing his, insinuated, involvement on this 'program' or
that 'event'... Some see his involvement with ufology as a
shadowy multi-agenda of non-admitted prerogatives, ego-tripping,
and opportunistic endeavors. Some have conjectured to me
privately that they suspect him of being on the roster of "tax-
payer supported operatives [infesting] the ufological
community", and a bad 'ping' returned on their sonar for _that_
reason.

Steve Bassett and I are not pals by any means. To be blunt I
think he's likely one of the (many) people who find my... in-
your-face artistic approach... to our community a trifle
unsettling and best kept distance from. [g]. We have
corresponded exactly _one_ time and that was a short note to me
that he appreciated a support letter I had written and posted to
UFO UpDates. That's it.

That being said, and allowing that the aforementioned concerns
of some may be _true_ about Steve Bassett in every case (I don't
_know_!), I can still allow that _I_ don't believe so... and I'm
once burned and twice shy! Many of the same concerns and
criticisms can be attributed to _me_, and I've never been
accused of them! None have called me untrustworthy because I
appeared on the scene suddenly (such as I have...). My own self-
 promotion (with regard to arts, letters, and amateur music) has
been chronic and gratuitous and even shameless (I think!), but
remains un-criticized . I have issued (press releases?) that I
was going to be on _this_ show or going to be published on
_that_ site. I have tried to (efficaciously, I hope?)
"insinuate" myself into the community that I have an...
affection... for? It could be argued that _I_ have involved
myself in a little judicious "ego-tripping"... but I don't think
you can have 'art' without a little of that... As to being one
of the taxpayer supported operatives, well, I could be lying
about a lack of involvement there. You don't know, either.

My point - outside of self-promotion? - <g> is that the guy has
been doing what he's been doing for a period of years now and
has yet to send up any _real_ red flags, has yet to disgrace
himself in any way, has yet to live up to any of the (paucity)
of negativity that has be ascribed to him, at all! Instead, for
over 5 years, he has been a focused, articulate, and ultimately
stalwart and believable proponent for what many of us consider
to be absolute (if ethereal) fact! UFOs are real!

All in all, there are worse front-men/women for this opportunity
that could be found, to be sure, and we're lucky to have such a
person available in Steve Bassett, at all. That's the long and
the short of it. Verily!

Be that as it may? 'Steve Bassett' is not the issue, anyway! We
throw our support behind Steve Bassett, not to enrich Steve, but
to encourage national attention to UFOs, to make a mainstream
aware that America feels UFOs are important, to identify a
ufological agenda and a platform for same! Steve is _our_ chance
(right now!) to make this happen, to get respect for ufology,
and to put UFOs on the table! If Steve advantages himself out of
this at all (and there are more risks for him, personally, than
benefits, I assure you! Think about it!), then it's because
he'll be doing the work and taking those aforementioned risks.
Moreover, all his expenses remain largely his own, I'm betting.
And profiting (being victorious?) _remains_ a long-shot, folks!
We're doing _wonderfully_ just to get him in the freaking
FINALS!

No... this is not about Mr. Bassett, at all. This is about
getting UFOs on the national table in a way that is pure...
serendipity! This is about us, and US trying to impose our OWN
will (in a ufological sense). Mr. Bassett is 'us'.

Read on, but Vote Steve!

http://www.americancandidate.com/candidate_homepage.php?id1

[Current Supporters: 16416 --ebk]

alienview.nul

EXPLORE "AlienViewGroup" at its HostPros URL.
http://www.alienview.net


JOHN FORD RESTORATION FUND - John will be released eventually.
He'll need a tax free cash stake to get on his feet. Let's put
one together for him; the bigger it is - the more attention
he gets. It could have been you. E-mail for detail.
$450.00 pledged - $300.00 collected!

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite.
What others see from afar, I leave far behind me."
- Giordano Bruno, scourged by the scabrously specious scurrilous.








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   Apr > Apr 16

               Re: A New UFO Magazine - UFO Monthly.com - Hale

From: Roy Hale <roy.nul>
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 13:55:45 +0100
Fwd Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 10:12:31 -0400
Subject: Re: A New UFO Magazine - UFO Monthly.com - Hale


>From: Philip Mantle <suemantle.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 02:14:27 +0100
>Subject: A New UFO Magazine - UFO Monthly.com


>Following previous contact with me at the PRUFOS Police Database
>I thought you might be interested to know that following the
>demise of UFO Magazine I am in the process of launching a 30
>glossy internet magazine called UFO Monthly.com.

>The first issue will go out on April 27th 2004 and will be free.

>Thereafter it will cost =A31.50 to download each month.


Phillip,

Would you be kind enough to inform me of  the name of the UFO
website, you were editor of last year, or before? Only did that
site also charge for a yearly subscription of =A315.00 for access
to members?

Would you also be kind enough to tell me how long it lasted,
after the charge was introduced?


Regards,

Roy








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   Apr > Apr 16

              Re: The WHY? Files Network Additions & Updates -

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 09:06:07 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 10:14:31 -0400
Subject: Re: The WHY? Files Network Additions & Updates -


>From: Geoffrey Richardson <geoff.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 18:25:54 +0100
>Subject: The WHY? Files Network Additions & Updates

>The WHY? Files Network

>There have been many updates and additional files added to "The
>WHY? Files"

<snip>

>http://www.thewhyfiles.co.uk


Geoff,

Thanks for that heads-up. Congratulations on a superbly updated
and excellently well-done website! Despite the fact that I, as
you might expect, disagree with some of the items and thoughts
presented, it is necessary to confess that The WHY? Files ranks
at the top with only a few other UFO sites. Also, it is
artistically laid out and, in my opinion, excellently user
friendly.

Just to mention two of The WHY? Files' assets: Your well-
 illustrated and information-excellent 'flying triangles' and
'V- shaped objects' web pages are worthy of high praise.

Please keep up the great work on your fascinating and
informative site. It is actually a service to not only the
casual visitor, but to the serious student and to dedicated
researchers who want to keep up with some things beyond their
specialties.

Every good wish to you and toward what you are doing.


Ray Stanford



"You know my method. It is founded upon the observance of trifles." --
Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery








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   Apr > Apr 16

              Re: 3 New Sightings Maps By UFO Shapes - Stanford

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 10:17:55 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 10:27:02 -0400
Subject: Re: 3 New Sightings Maps By UFO Shapes - Stanford


>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 14:30:05 -0700
>Subject: 3 New Sightings Maps By UFO Shapes

>I have put up three new Thematic UFO maps on this menu
>online:

>http://www.larryhatch.net/THEMEMAPS.html

<snip>

>Comments and suggestions are always welcome.


Larry, congratulations on some excellent and surely time-
consuming work! Now if we can just interest the 'Ufological
world' into taking an interest to study such nicely organized
data and to look for possibly significant patterns within the
data.

One suggestion that I realize might be difficult to set up on
the web pages to which you linked us: It would be nice, down on
the lower left of each map, where you say, "LAYERS: 1 2 3" (with
each number in its appropriate color), if you were to make it
possible to click on a specific number (color coded) and if just
that specific shape category of reported object would show up.
In addition, it would be doubly nice if one could then just
successively click on one of the other two shape-designating
colors and superimpose just that shape code onto the same map
with the first-chosen shape type (color).

I don't look a gift horse in the mouth, do I, Larry? :)

Well, even without my suggested additives, you have provided a
service with considerable potential to researchers.


Big thanks, Larry,

Ray Stanford

"You know my method. It is founded upon the observance of
trifles." -- Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery








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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   Apr > Apr 17

                           High Strangeness On SDI

From: Wendy Connors <fadeddiscs.nul>
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 09:15:24 -0600
Fwd Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 07:17:54 -0400
Subject: High Strangeness On SDI


Greetings to the List Members,

Tonight, April 17, 2004, EBK and I will once again be burning
up the airwaves, on Strange Days... Indeed, with clips from my
newest 7 hour MP3 compilation entitled, "High Strangeness -
 M.I.B.s, Flatwoods Monster, Mothman and Hairy Bi-Peds in UFOs.
Please join us via the internet on CFRB 1010 in Toronto or CJAD
800 in Montreal.

Clcik here to listen via Windows Medio Player:

http://www.cfrb.com//player/player.asp

We'll bring you a clip on the Mystery Satellite phenomena of
the late 1950s, a rare Frank Edwards clip from his "Stranger
than Science" radio vignette series, an M.I.B. encounter by
Dr. Hopkins, Stan Gordon and the Pennsylvania Hairy Bi-Peds
and UFOs and Gray Barker talking about Australian and
Canadian silencing of UFO researchers.

Many of these recordings haven't been heard in over 45
years!

Hear you there!



Wendy Connors
www.fadeddiscs.com








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   Apr > Apr 17

                Re: Steve Bassett for 'President' #4 - Kaeser

From: Steven Kaeser <steve.nul>
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 11:23:21 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 07:21:01 -0400
Subject: Re: Steve Bassett for 'President' #4 - Kaeser


>From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 07:47:10 -0500
>Subject: Steve Bassett for 'President' #4


>Boo-ya! Steve Bassett is _hot_ on the trail of the, less than
>intrepid, leaders! One leader is a neo-conservative inconstant
>with an unconscionable (...and egregious!) inconsistency in the
>first two points of her platform (followed by a panoply of non-
>reflective reflexives, non-responses, and unthinking
>religiosity)! She sure is pretty, though... The number 'one'
>spot's held by a 'business major'... and we all know about those
>guys - they're focus gets a little too narrow for taste, and
>seems to make the rest of the world safe for itself... while
>incurring the worried hatred of that same world for its trouble!
>Two sure-fires for a threatened, harried and therefore
>distractible America? I think not.

>This essay is not about them... it's not even, really, about
>Steve. It's about us.

<snip>

Alfred,

A couple of points:

While Stephen Bassett (yes, that's the correct spelling) has
billed himself as a "UFO Lobbyist" for a number of years, he
isn't (to my knowledge) a paid lobbyist promoting someone's
point of view. He's an activist who is promoting his agenda
(which sounds more negative than I intend) and is supported by
donations and his own bank account. This is not the same as a
lobbyist hired by Proctor and Gamble to promote their own
viewpoint regarding proposed legislation. While this is a subtle
point, and really makes little difference to most of those here,
I think we shouldn't confuse his status. He can declare himself
to be a lobbyist, but there are legal requirements for
registration and filing that I'm not sure he is actually
involved in at the Federal level.

Secondly, a number of those who have been involved in UFO
research are not interested in getting into the squabbles on the
Internet and really have little impact there anyway. As a
supporter of Dr. Greer and Richard Hoagland in the past, Bassett
has established a reputation for himself, which limits the
support he gets from many researchers in the field.

Dr. Greer is one of the primary speakers at this weekend' "X-
Conference", which has been organized by Stephen Bassett in
Maryland. This is happening about five miles from my home,
starting this evening (I can't attend due to a personal
problem), and there has been absolutely no mention of this in
the local media that I've seen. No mailings have been sent to
attract locals, and I would suspect that this will become
another entertainment story for a slow weekend for the local
papers (i.e. The Washington Post). If there are people there in
"UFO Hats" and "Alien Masks", you can bet that they'll end up
with their pictures in the paper somewhere. Let me add that
there are many good speakers at the Conference, but mixing them
with colorful charactors in ufology tends to make this entire
genre appear to be more of a circus than a rational
investigation.

Perhaps you believe any publicity is helpful to the causes of
truth and knowledge, but many would disagree. The UFO field has
serious problems, but (IMO) gimmicks like the "Mock Presidential
Election" aren't going to help the quest that the scientific
researchers are on.


Steve







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   Apr > Apr 17

                Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers -

From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman.nul>
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 10:13:17 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 07:24:55 -0400
Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers -


>From: John Scheldroup <jschel.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 21:16:41 -0500
>Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers

>>From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 15:19:33 -0700
>>Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers

>>>From: John Scheldroup <jschel.nul>
>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 13:08:01 -0500
>>>Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers

>>>>Have you read Dennis Murphy's report on the debris?

>>>>http://www.beyondroswell.com/roswell/debris.htm

>>>>What do you think of his assessment?

>>>Which error??

>>My hope was for a thoughtful discussion of Dennis's essay. If
>>you have problems with his reasoning or his facts, then reply
>>directly, and clearly state your case.

>Directly to you, who will read it I wonder?.

John,

What I wanted was a clear statement of your views.

>CNC engraving example, any similiarty to your own space debris?

>http://www.artcaminsignia.com/artcam/insignia/gallery/default.asp?ID=118

Yes to a certain extent except in this case, it's clear how it
was created. Some of the metal was milled away and the figures
were all that remained.

>>A bunch of links without explanation or clear context is a waste
>>of time. Also Dennis was writing with the technology of 1995 or
>>1996 in mind.

>I doubt CNC or machining technology has changed much since then.

Since when: 1995 or 1947?

>>I can tell that you have not spent much time viewing the AA
>>debris. Why not buy an AA CD set and then see how you feel after
>>viewing it for awhile.

>I do have the VHS recording Ed.

Have you examined all the debris? If so do you think you or
someone you know could duplicate it,(including finger panels)
keeping in mind the realities and limitations Dennis has
suggested?

>>>DEBRIS MANUFACTURING OPTIONS
>>>"The raised lettering would have to be done with a very precise
>>>CNC (computer numeric control) machine. When I look at the
>>>lettering I see precise rounds as parts of the symbols. I do not
>>>think that you can do this with current milling machines."
>>>Huh??
>>>To think all that knowledge about machining and never heard of a
>>>ball endmill <G>

>>This is an example. If a "ball endmill" is the answer, I then I
>>want a complete explanation. The link below doesn't sufice.

>A ball end mill is a flat end mill with a half sphere on the end
>that looks something like your finger.

Dennis insisted that the debris wasn't milled. If you think it
was, then explain how this could be accomplished.

>>>http://www.artcaminsignia.com/artcam/insignia/default.asp

>>>FILM DETAILS
>>>"Anything structural that exhibits a lack of starting and stopping
>>>momentum that these objects exhibit must be very light."

>>>Huh??

>>>Ed, Momentum is conserved. This is not to impart that even in an
>>>isolated system of two objects that exchange something to
>>>something in one system, but here we got "independent variables"
>>>we are simply handling the object back and forth thru the air.

>>>When you stop waving thing, you end up having an equal amount
>>>momentum as when you started. There is nothing to exchange
>>>momentum with besides air friction.. No starting and stopping
>>>momentum it is conservatory.

>>>Forces to lift bowling balls and marbles??.

>>Again why not say what you mean?

>The author of the essay makes attempt to describe physical
>phenomena of ufo crash debris, is this not open for further
>discussion or is it cut and dry in your mind? Notice how blurry
>pictures turn ordinary folk into nail biting dips?. Have you
>checked his facts with a professional in the field of machining
>or an engineering science regarding his stated facts? Anything
>at all that we should not question its content for fact?

I have not checked with other professionals but I have asked for
folks who have difficulties with Dennis's work to do so and so
far there haven't been any takers. You can question whatever you
like, but since Dennis is what I call an expert witness, you'll
need to find someone equally qualified. What are your
qualifications? A brief search only reveals a skill at boiled
sausage.

>Have you presented this essay or your evidence to a professional
>involved in any physical sciences, would they not be interested?

Maybe, but this isn't my evidence. I didn't have anything to do
with Dennis's analysis. You're free to do what ever you wish.

>>My evidence is that the debris

>What is the evidence if not big blurry bigfoot with big feet
>does anybody even remember him poor guy?

I do. I look for

>>came from a craft that was at the center of vortex with heat of
>>at least 3000C, the melting point of silica, (cristibolite) and
>>survived.

>Lets put this statement into some perspective. At 3000 C when
>converted over to Fahrenheit equals 5432 degrees.

Sorry, I made a mistake. The figures should have been between
1700C (the melting point of silica) to 2230 C (the boiling
point) But still very hot.

>It takes 3 hours to reduce the human body to a few bones and
>dust at temperatures close to 2500F in a crematorium.

I assume the creatures were protected from the heat, but not
completely. The leg wound could possibibly be from a burn.

>>We know from the handling of the debris during the
>>footage that the debris material has very little mass

>How do you know it has " very little mass" What data do you have
>that would indicate it has little mass or no mass. Are you going
>"mass" to "light weight", so is plastic light weight. You must
>have done a spectroanalysis on the object in question, care to
>share the specific density of the metal, what trace did you find
>or are these not yet part of the periodic table of elements on
>earth?

Read Dennis's arguments. All we have are the hints from the footage
and the way the large sections are handled by the person holding
them.

>>and we
>>also know that some of the debris is melted material. From this
>>fact we can also surmise extreme heat.

>The element or metal must have a melting point, have you tested
>or ran any tests thus far that would tell us such what the melt
>range of the material is located at?

Since we know the heat during the event was at least 1700 C,
then the melting point was above that.

>>We also know from the crash site that the craft stopped momentarily
>>and then abruptly. But some of the occupants still survived.

>At 3000C do we suppose the occupants of the spacecraft had a
>hard time opening the doors do you think? I nearly burnt my
>fingers on the charcoal grill tonight, only because my mits had
>holes in the center that a nice sweet lady had knit for me. To
>my dissatisfaction they were not intended to be griller pads.

Bad mistake on your part. All I know is that by the time the
cameraman arrived, the creatures were outside the craft and were
making terrible sounds.

>>>FILM DETAILS
>>>"Here is a problem for the hoaxer. The bigger I-beam would have
>>>to be made out of some type of foam to make it as light as it
>>>appears."

>>>Nope.

>>>http://www.dynacast.com/magnesium/

>>How much mass, in in terms of the magnesium on this site, would
>>we find in the largest debris section?

>I can help with that. What is the debris section volume or even
>dimensions in the photo in question, so that I can figure
>accordingly to magnesium? Which reminds me, your meausurements
>of the i-beam do you care to post the numbers?

I have no measurements; check Dennis's article. You state that
you have the VHS so take a look and check for the largest piece
of debris and then figure out how much it would weigh if it were
made of magnesium.

>>>>>Beyond the meaning of symbols themselves what I can say to some
>>>>>degree of certainty is that both symbols do share something in
>>>>>common, they were both formed with a punch and an hammer.

>>>>I thought the symbols were not indented, but embossed.

>>>Clearly someone used the wrong tool then Ed.

>>It appears from the debris that the letters are raised. Are you
>>saying they are not raised?

>They appear to be indented in my judgement of the enhanced photo.

We'll have to disagree then. Side views of the I-beams indicate
to me that they're raised. I think that's been the assumption of
most researchers. Convince me that I'm wrong.

>>>http://tinyurl.com/2ves6

>>>>Aren't
>>>>they "raised symbols" above the flat surface, not carved or
>>>>"punched" into it? Or are you saying that the punching somehow
>>>>raises the symbols, and this is accomplished while the metal is
>>>>still hot? Can you duplicate the process?

>>>See above material Ed.

>>I did and I'm still confused about what you're saying. Can you
>>duplicate this process and come out with an end product that has
>>all the qualities of the of the debris material. If not, can you
>>produce someone who is willing to try and how much would that
>>attempt cost, if I were to pay to have it done?

>Someone with an cnc engraver and artcam might be able to help.

>Method 2: Several coats of thick paint stenciled on. Or with a
>block printing method. Then spray with shiney paint. Safe for
>kids to do in the front yard sidewalk. Getting warm Ed <G>

I'm not convinced.

Ed








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   Apr > Apr 17

               Re: 3 New Sightings Maps By UFO Shapes - Hatch

From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 13:50:01 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 07:28:16 -0400
Subject: Re: 3 New Sightings Maps By UFO Shapes - Hatch


>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 10:17:55 -0400
>Subject: Re: 3 New Sightings Maps By UFO Shapes

>>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 14:30:05 -0700
>>Subject: 3 New Sightings Maps By UFO Shapes


>>I have put up three new Thematic UFO maps on this menu
>>online:


>>http://www.larryhatch.net/THEMEMAPS.html

><snip>

>>Comments and suggestions are always welcome.

>One suggestion that I realize might be difficult to set up on
>the web pages to which you linked us: It would be nice, down on
>the lower left of each map, where you say, "LAYERS: 1 2 3" (with
>each number in its appropriate color), if you were to make it
>possible to click on a specific number (color coded) and if just
>that specific shape category of reported object would show up.
>In addition, it would be doubly nice if one could then just
>successively click on one of the other two shape-designating
>colors and superimpose just that shape code onto the same map
with the first-chosen shape type (color).

Hi Ray:

That's a fine suggestion. I could make my old DOS program do
tricks like that. Sadly, doing this interactively on a web page
involves Java, PERL, or other messy difficult coding I would
have to learn from scratch. I try to stick with straight HTML
for download speed and simplicity.

>I don't look a gift horse in the mouth, do I, Larry? :)

>Well, even without my suggested additives, you have provided a
>service with considerable potential to researchers.

>Big thanks, Larry,

...and thanks for your kind words.

- Larry









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   Apr > Apr 17

                Effect Of Childhood Abductions On The Adult?

From: Luis R. Gonzalez <lrgm.nul>
Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 09:39:32 +0200
Fwd Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 07:32:45 -0400
Subject: Effect Of Childhood Abductions On The Adult?


I have discovered that at the UFO convention in Laughlin, Nevada
between March 3-9, 2002 Budd Hopkins spoke about "The Effect Of
Childhood Abductions On The Adult Years".

I am very interested in that paper. Can anybody tell me how to
obtain it?

Thanks in advance,

Luis R. Gonzalez Manso








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   Apr > Apr 17

             Re: Peculiar 04-15-04 Sighting In Orlando Forida -

From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 04:05:42 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 07:36:47 -0400
Subject: Re: Peculiar 04-15-04 Sighting In Orlando Forida -


>From: Peter Davenport - NUFORC <director.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 13:53:51 -0700
>Subject: Peculiar 04-15-04 Sighting Orlando Forida

>To the List:

>The National UFO Reporting Center just received a very
>interesting sighting report from a woman in Orlando, FL, which I
>thought the members of the List might like to be apprised of.

>I spoke at length with the witness, and she seemed to me to be
>quite lucid and objective in her description of the alleged
>sighting. She estimated that the object she sighted was
>approximately the size of a basketball, or a bit smaller. She
>emphasized how suddenly and quickly the object streaked away
>from her window, when the stray cat first noticed the object,
>and began approaching it. The window was open, and the witness
>viewed the object through a screen.

>I copy below the written report from the witness.

<snip>

Dear Peter:

Now _that_ is an interesting and novel report!

Can you give us a feel for the credibility of the witness based
on your subjective impressions after the phone conversation?

I would love to see a rough sketch of the object. As well and
hard as the witness tried to describe it, I still can't quite
visualize the shape. Do you suppose somebody could ask her for a
drawing?

I would also ask if the object was about the height of the cat's
head _before_ the cat showed up. If not, then what? For
cataloging purposes [longitude latitude etc.], it would be good
to know where the witness lives with respect to Disneyworld in
Orlando, FL.

If the Disney people could create such an object, or even the
illusion of it, they could make more money with defense
applications than carnival rides.

Thanks for sharing that with us! I'm glad you post the more
interesting cases. Not everyone has the time to ferret those out
from the usual stuff.

This case, if we can credit it, dovetails nicely with some
speculative ideas I have been kicking around.


Best wishes

- Larry Hatch











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   Apr > Apr 17

                 Brazilian's Freedom Of UFO Information Now

From: Philip Mantle <suemantle.nul>
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 14:42:04 +0100
Fwd Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 09:08:35 -0400
Subject: Brazilian's Freedom Of UFO Information Now


-----

From: Brazilian UFO Researchers Comission (CBU) ; UFOs Liberdade de Informacoes
Ja
To: suemantle.nul
Date: Friday, April 16, 2004 5:40 PM
Subject: Brazilian Campaign UFOs: Freedom Of Information Now

Dear members of the international UFO community:

I would like to inform that thousands of Brazilian UFO
researchers, investigators, speakers, authors and all sorts of
UFO enthusiasts are presently engaged in the most comprehensive
and in-depth campaign in country's history, to officialy request
the end of government secrecy about the UFO Phenomena in Brazil
and the declassification of military documents.

The campaign is called UFOs: Freedom of Information Now, and can
be visited at www.ufo.com.br/ChegadeSigilos.php. Those of you
familiar with the Portuguese language can sign the petition to
the Brazilian government visiting www.ufo.com.br/textoZero.php.
Shortly a translation in English will be available.

International UFO community members can help the Brazilian
campaign by submitting supporting messages to:

ufo.freedom.nul

Its coordination is made by the Brazilian UFO Researchers
Comission (CBU), the same that promoted the 1st World UFO Forum
(1997), with the support of the Brazilian Center for Flying
Saucer Research (CBPDV) and through the Brazilian UFO Magazine.

Please, spread the info to your colleagues.

A. J. Gevaerd,
Editor, Brazilian UFO Magazine
Campaign coordinator

www.ufo.com.br
gevaerd.nul
ufo.freedom.nul









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   Apr > Apr 17

                MUFON Investigates Rochester Indiana Sighting

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 10:51:20 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 10:51:20 -0400
Subject: MUFON Investigates Rochester Indiana Sighting




Source: The South Bend Tribune - South Bend Indiana

http://www.southbendtribune.com/stories/2004/04/17/local.20040417-sbt-MARS-A1-In
vestigators_seek_c.sto

April 17, 2004

Investigators seek clues in UFO sightings
Area residents describe what they saw on night of April 8.

By Anita Munson
Tribune Staff Writer

ROCHESTER -- Bev Carpenter's hands painted pictures in the warm
blue sky, the sound of birds punctuated by her testimony of the
only thing investigators found missing: The UFO she saw the
night of April 8.

Roger Sugden, assistant director of Mutual UFO Network Indiana,
and MUFON state section director Stewart Hill, went to
Carpenter's rural home Friday to look into reports by at least
seven people in three counties of sightings of something they
can't explain.

MUFON, headquartered in Littleton, Colo., is an international
scientific organization of people who are seriously interested
in studying and researching unidentified flying objects and was
founded in 1969.

Sugden and Hill went to Carpenter's property for a physical look
for two reasons:

"The type of structure that was reported was rare," Sugden, who
lives in Fort Wayne, said. All of the witnesses have described a
disc-shaped object with lights.

"And to have multiple witnesses (also is rare)," Hill added.

The pair conducted interviews with Carpenter and Robbie Crull,
among others. Crull lives only about a half-mile from Carpenter,
on County Road 400 North. When Carpenter went on a Rochester
radio station last week to talk about her experience April 8,
several callers said they had seen the object in the air, as
well.

The incident happened around 10 p.m. on April 8. Carpenter saw
it to the south of her home about 400 yards away. Crull said it
looked as if it were "in my yard," and a third witness in Miami
County, Gene Winters, told The Tribune earlier this week that
whatever it was hovered only 35 to 50 feet above the pond in his
back yard located mid-way between Mexico and Denver.

A couple of other Fulton County residents and two additional
Marshall County witnesses also were to be interviewed by Sugden
and Hill Friday afternoon.

Sugden, who served in the U.S. Army during Vietnam, and who
currently owns an aerial photography business in Fort Wayne, was
enthusiastic about the investigation, but far from excitable.
Hill, a retired Bayer Corp. employee who lives in Elkhart, was
calm as the pair looked for any possible explanation of what the
object could be.

Standing outside her home, Carpenter extended her arm and
pointed off to the south to show the investigators where she and
her 13-year-old granddaughter first saw two sets of three lights
about 400 yards from the house as they came home around 10 p.m.
April 8.

Sugden's eyes followed Carpenter's finger as it traced a path in
the clear blue sky.

"I tell you, Roger, it was humongous," Carpenter said.

Sugden assured her he has with him many pieces of equipment with
which to take many types of measurements.

Crull, a former employee with the Fulton County Sheriff's
Department and also a former private investigator, said she and
her son "didn't have time to be scared" when they saw what they
think was the same object Carpenter saw in the night sky.

Now, though, the experience has the retiree from Crull's
Christian Academy wondering if whatever it was is still out
there.

"It makes me think there are probably other things out there
besides just us," Crull said.

"Hers (Carpenter's sighting) was a lot further away from the
house than ours was," Crull said.

The walk from Carpenter's immediate yard downhill southward,
where investigators checked out fallen limbs and other growth,
was filled with buttercups, spring beauties, wild violets and
other signs that nature had been left untouched.

The group then reached the dip where Carpenter had, on Easter
while looking for mushrooms, observed a circle of fallen tree
limbs. Sugden took magnetic, electric, radio and microwave
readings in the area.

"Nothing's spiking up," he told the crowd. He also noted that
there were "no burnt tree tops."

Both Sugden and Hill photographed the area.

Sugden and Hill tramped around the underbrush a bit longer, and
WSBT-TV news reporter Ray Roth focused his camera on Sugden,
asking him pertinent questions about his activities.

Suddenly, the audio on Roth's camera went haywire, producing a
"buzzing" not only in Roth's ear but as background to the
interview. The camera had worked just fine up at the house.

"This is kind of crazy," Roth said, fiddling with the buttons,
checking to see if something he had done had made the equipment
behave in a peculiar manner.

Sugden produced an inexpensive tape recorder with a never-
before-used tape, turned it on, spoke several sentences, and
stopped the tape. He then replayed it. Sure enough, that same
buzz could be heard in the background.

When the group began walking back toward the house, Roth again
checked his camera. The audio was again clear.

Sugden tried the same experiment with the tape recorder. It,
too, was clear.

Sugden said he'd return to the dip where the tree limbs lay in a
circle and take some additional readings.

Hill said whatever findings the pair collects from their full
day of investigation will be posted on the organization's Web
site at www.mufon.com.

Carpenter's initial report of the sighting was posted on the Web
site of the National UFO Reporting Center, headquartered in
Seattle, at www.nuforc.org/webreports/034/S34815.html.

"I'm really curious whether they (the investigators) believe us,
or think we're just kooks," Crull said. "But I'm glad they're
willing to walk around and check out what we're telling them we
saw."

She's had some second thoughts about UFOs since the experience,
too.

"If we (the witnesses) had all seen it in the same place, that
would have been one thing," Crull continued, still mulling it
over in her head. "But there's a half-mile difference between
Bev's place and mine, and then there's the people in Miami and
Marshall counties, too. It's really weird."

"I keep going back to the fact that when the lights (on the UFO)
went out, it was still there," Crull said. "Maybe it's still
there ... Maybe they are there more often than we realize."









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   Apr > Apr 17

               Re: Steve Bassett for 'President' #4 - Lehmberg

From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul>
Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 13:16:23 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 14:53:17 -0400
Subject: Re: Steve Bassett for 'President' #4 - Lehmberg


>From: Steven Kaeser <steve.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 11:23:21 -0400
>Subject: Re: Steve Bassett for 'President' #4

>>From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 07:47:10 -0500
>>Subject: Steve Bassett for 'President' #4

>>Boo-ya! Steve Bassett is _hot_ on the trail of the, less than
>>intrepid, leaders! One leader is a neo-conservative inconstant
>>with an unconscionable (...and egregious!) inconsistency in the
>>first two points of her platform (followed by a panoply of non-
>>reflective reflexives, non-responses, and unthinking
>>religiosity)! She sure is pretty, though... The number 'one'
>>spot's held by a 'business major'... and we all know about those
>>guys - their focus gets a little too narrow for taste, and
>>seems to make the rest of the world safe for itself... while
>>incurring the worried hatred of that same world for its trouble!
>>Two sure-fires for a threatened, harried and therefore
>>distractible America? I think not.

>>This essay is not about them... it's not even, really, about
>>Steve. It's about us.

><snip>

>Alfred,

The dismissive, pedantic, and certainly patronizing thrust of
your overall response requires a certain formality, in the
future... sir. You can call me Mr. Lehmberg.

>A couple of points:

Which were (imo), largely reflexive, lacking vision, and carrying an obvious
bias, but we can get into that another time. In the interests of
brevity...?

>While Stephen Bassett (yes, that's the correct spelling) has

...Which meant exactly what, Mr. Kaeser? ...And I have to point
out that if _that_ is the point with which you would lead...
that you'd make desultory mention of a truly meaningless (and
off-task) error like innocently leaving a "t" out of the guy's
name... (ZOT!) ...then the roots of this discussion are not
where you think they are, sir, and the continuance of it a
regrettable waste of our (certainly my!) time.

>billed himself as a "UFO Lobbyist" for a number of years, he
>isn't (to my knowledge) a paid lobbyist promoting someone's
>point of view. He's an activist who is promoting his agenda
>(which sounds more negative than I intend)

I suspect you did "intend", sir.

>and is supported by
>donations and his own bank account.

You really should leave it right there. You won't. You ache to be negative
on this, sir, I suspect.

>This is not the same as a
>lobbyist hired by Proctor and Gamble to promote their own
>viewpoint regarding proposed legislation.

I'm sure you'd get a lot more mileage out of pointing out to me
how this is remotely to the point, relevant... or _even_ where I
thought, at all, otherwise. "Lobbyist" is how he's been
described to me by the persons critical of him and alluded to in
my article, sir. You need to quibble definitions and
philosophies with them, Mr. Kaeser, not waste bandwidth parsing
it with me. This is forgetting I posted "ufo lobbyist"...
signifying a lower case concept you contest here; the capitals
were Errol's, albeit perspicacious, editing. LOL!

>While this is a subtle
>point, and really makes little difference to most of those here,
>I think we shouldn't confuse his status.

His status, sir, is power-player in a serendipitous spotlight
for ufology that ufology doesn't have to pay for (...not even in
the way you'd protest!). Also, it seems to me that a lot of
*serious* ufologists could get brought into this as subject
matter experts... ...National, regular, and ongoing attention,
sir! Think of it! There has to be some positive follow-up to
that.

As to Mr. Basset't'... the man may have a an ego (you thinly
intimate), as has been said, but one _has_ to have a little of
that... to do what one has to do in an arena (has been doing!)!
Or, maybe you just haven't been paying attention to politics for
the last 50 years (or UFOs, for that matter, which still sits
idle after all that time, too!). Friedman has an ego! Rudiak has
an ego! Van Gemert has an ego. I have an ego! Wherefore art
_your_ ego, Mr. Kaeser? Hot flash! Like a certain anatomical
component (...the navel, Mr. Kaeser...) everyone has one to one
degree or another... But _do_ take issue with ours (...or at
least mine!), sir, please!

>He can declare himself
>to be a lobbyist, but there are legal requirements for
>registration and filing that I'm not sure he is actually
>involved in at the Federal level.

This was a not so clever and almost squeamish... ...distraction
from the point, sir... (...You really should just come out with
what's on your mind, Mr. Kaeser...)! That point to which I refer
is putting UFOs on the prime-time national table. All other
*considerations* are really secondary to that. If you want to
drag personalities in, then we can drag them _all_ in. We can
_wade_ in them, sir, if that is your wish.

>Secondly, a number of those who have been involved in UFO
>research are not interested in getting into the squabbles on the
>Internet and really have little impact there anyway. As a
>supporter of Dr. Greer and Richard Hoagland in the past, Bassett
>has established a reputation for himself, which limits the
>support he gets from many researchers in the field.

Personally - as I have written for years, I think Dr. Greer's
professional manners are detestable. Still, he is a major player
on the stage, regardless. He's not easily balanced out of the
equation. The thrust seems to be to find a way to make that work
for you, rather than let it hamstring you. Maybe Mr. Basset't',
has. I don't know. You have similar knowledge.

...And with regard to Mr. Hoagland - I heard him on the Noory
C2C show the night Mars was at its closest? He was a complete
enchantment... and know what? ...Not that far off the course
indicator or the bleeding glide-slope for my money, even if he
_is_ coming in a little steep! Hoagland is not the bad guy here,
even if he does rub some of us the wrong way. Moreover, it's not
remotely constructive, when we're talking about something
entirely apart from Greer/Hoagland, anyway, to insist on their
inclusion... when their inclusion is such a departure from the
point... which is support for Mr. Basset't' in a _brand new_
adjacent venue! Verily, it's not all persons laying with dogs
that come up with their fleas. All Ufologists have found
themselves among dogs, yet it's _not_ true that all Ufologists
have fleas.

Oh... and God bless those rare researchers that can pick and
choose from among the plethora of avenues of gleeful support
that they enjoy (heavy sarcasm here), but have not advanced (us)
upon any of them... a centimeter in 50 years! I'll take an
avenue as it presents itself, sir, as would Mr. Basset't' it
seems; if it ultimately dead-ends, as many do, then I'm still
moving even if it's to back-track! There are frontage roads,
alleys, and back streets, remaining. You have to keep your eyes
open! That _still_ trumps sitting on the start-line with my
engine seized!

>Dr. Greer is one of the primary speakers at this weekend' "X-
>Conference", which has been organized by Stephen Bassett in
>Maryland. This is happening about five miles from my home,
>starting this evening (I can't attend due to a personal
>problem), and there has been absolutely no mention of this in
>the local media that I've seen. No mailings have been sent to
>attract locals, and I would suspect that this will become
>another entertainment story for a slow weekend for the local
>papers (i.e. The Washington Post). If there are people there in
>"UFO Hats" and "Alien Masks", you can bet that they'll end up
>with their pictures in the paper somewhere. Let me add that
>there are many good speakers at the Conference, but mixing them
>with colorful charactors in ufology tends to make this entire
>genre appear to be more of a circus than a rational
>investigation.

That's it! How wonderfully predictable! Blame it on the fringe!
I remind you, sir, that the fringe you so very thinly deride in
the preceding is what has evolved to fill an information void...
that is not getting filled any other way! It's not the fringe
providing your "circus" of embarrassment... keeping the
mainstream out, Mr. Kaeser... that contention is laughable. The
mainstream lacks the intellectual courage to go in there (in the
first place)... to fill that void, sir; a problem some of us,
Mr. Basset't'... among them, it seems, doesn't have! Lastly,
"UFO Hats" and "Alien Masks" were in attendance at every
conference I've attended. These are people, sir, largely trying
to fill that void I mentioned earlier which society and culture
have created for them for purposes of its own. Hats and Masks
are not a product of ufology. They are a consequence of the
cultivated ignorance of same.

>Perhaps you believe any publicity is helpful to the causes of
>truth and knowledge, but many would disagree.

That's their (your) problem, sir, as much as it is their (your) privilege!

But, if all we have is coal oil, then that is what we run the
engine on! We make it work! Sitting around and waiting for
high-test gas, that is not forthcoming, is the activity of a
fool, sir. Moreover, Mr. Basset't' may be just the shot of
*nitro* this enchilada needs. We'll see. Be that as it may, I'm
betting we can limp to a high test gas station!

>The UFO field has
>serious problems, but (IMO) gimmicks like the "Mock Presidential
>Election" aren't going to help the quest that the scientific
>researchers are on.

Well - that just lacks imagination, appreciation of a confluence
of events, and a sense of what drives America, Mr. Kaeser.
 That's not a little disappointing, and to be expected, I would
have thought, from armchair critics, haughty elitists, and
complacent negativists, and not yourself.

In closing, I've had a lot of people write me under the table
and warn me that I'm risking my "reputation" or some such
nonsense by chasing fairies and hobgoblins or involving myself
with these "unblessed ufological unwashed"! One of them that I
have come to have the most respect for wondered aloud if I
hadn't learned anything from (Doctor?) Mortellaro... my answer
to that is: "plenty..."

But, it remains that I don't have the time, or the inclination,
to worry (overmuch) about what others are thinking of me, or
fret over erosions to a 'reputation'. ...Which is only what
other people think it is, anyway... I'm going to do my own
thinking on this, and other things... because it is clear that
there is no advancement against this puzzle extant 'anywhere'
else! For all the monumental effort of some very brave and very
smart people. I've demonstrated a consistency over the same
amount of years under discussion here. Betrayed, to some extent,
and refusing to betray? I'm on my own. "I can't please
everyone, but I have to please myself," at 'this' garden party.

This opportunity that has presented itself is not to _your_
liking Mr. Kaeser (...among some others, I'm certain...), but it
_is_ an opportunity, sir, nonetheless! You'd be advised to
answer opportunity's knock, how ever it knocks! That this is an
opportunity that could be huge (on many levels!) should be
obvious, Mr. Kaeser. Try to have a little imagination, sir!
Can't you!

Oh, and let me apologize in advance for any errors in grammar or
spelling that distract and otherwise upset you, but assuredly
(with their inclusion into the debate?) erode your own argument
which remains canted, without appropriate vision, and with
inadequate imagination. Things are a little bigger and have
more features (...details, facets, aspects.) than you seem
entirely comfortable with, sir. Please refrain from an
arbitrary (however learned sounding) limitation on them for the
rest of us.

Vote Steve Bassett, interested reader.

http://www.americancandidate.com/candidate_homepage.php?id1

Good day, Mr. Kaeser.


alienview.nul
EXPLORE "AlienViewGroup" at its HostPros URL.

http://www.alienview.net


JOHN FORD RESTORATION FUND - John will be released eventually.
He'll need a tax free cash stake to get on his feet. Let's put
one together for him; the bigger it is - the more attention
he gets. It could have been you. E-mail for detail.
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"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite.
What others see from afar, I leave far behind me."

- Giordano Bruno, scourged by the scabrously specious scurrilous.






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   Apr > Apr 17

                Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers -

From: John Scheldroup <jschel.nul>
Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 13:18:20 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 14:57:07 -0400
Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers -


>From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 10:13:17 -0700
>Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers

>>From: John Scheldroup <jschel.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 21:16:41 -0500
>>Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers

>>>From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman.nul>
>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 15:19:33 -0700
>>>Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers
>
>>>>From: John Scheldroup <jschel.nul>
>>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>>Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 13:08:01 -0500
>>>>Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers
>
>>>>>Have you read Dennis Murphy's report on the debris?
>
>>>>>http://www.beyondroswell.com/roswell/debris.htm

>>>>>What do you think of his assessment?

>>>>Which error??

>>>My hope was for a thoughtful discussion of Dennis's essay. If
>>>you have problems with his reasoning or his facts, then reply
>>>directly, and clearly state your case.

>>Directly to you, who will read it I wonder?.

>What I wanted was a clear statement of your views.

Ed, did you get the email I sent you on Friday, April 16? I have
found someone to duplicate the i-beam provided you can pay for
it. I promise that it will not be manufacturing on zeta-
reticuli, but rather in Dayton Ohio.

He tells me he can do it with/out artcam, which surprises me. I
would not be surprised if he can mass produce the alien i-beams
much like key rings.

>>CNC engraving example, any similiarty to your own space debris?

>>http://www.artcaminsignia.com/artcam/insignia/gallery/default.asp?ID=118

>Yes to a certain extent except in this case, it's clear how it
>was created. Some of the metal was milled away and the figures
>were all that remained.

So much for the alien ibeam mystery.. I'll bet the magnesium
would look way kewl with a shiney finish and some of those
symbols you got.

>>>A bunch of links without explanation or clear context is a waste
>>>of time. Also Dennis was writing with the technology of 1995 or
>>>1996 in mind.

>>I doubt CNC or machining technology has changed much since then.

>Since when: 1995 or 1947?

Since 1995. There have been few technical changes to CNC
machining that I know of. Here comes a short course off the top
of my head.

The structure needed to develop a toolpath for example to engrave a
key ring as found in our example was created using ArtCam.
http://www.artcam.com/ Artcam is an integrated CAD/CAM system.

As we know our key ring was CNC engraved this can be by laser or
a cutting tool action such as "ball end mill". Things not to do
with symbol making will not have a requirement for Artcam either
but rather a separate CAD (computer aided design) system can be
used to perform the design work. "Autocad" is one such popular
system.

http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/home?siteID=123112&id=129446

This drawing can be imported into what is called a CAM system
(computer aided manufacture) like "SurfCam.

http://www.surfware.com/

There are many Cad and Cam systems out their, but ArtCam is
unique in that it has a target market in a specialized industry.
Artcam works great for things that require symbols, insignia,
signs large or small to be machined. Machined on materials such
as Wood, Plastic, Silver, Gold, Magnesium or most all which are
located on the periodic table of elements.

The programmers job is to graphically tell the Cam system where
the tool will go and what it has to do. ArtCam/Cam will take
your tool path and generate what are G and M codes. These codes
are the language of the machine.  When all is said and done the
tool takes up a start position relative to the surface of the
material to be machined. It is this spot that is called "program
zero" or X0.0 Y0.0 Z0.0.

When you want to machine down into the part from lets say to a
depth of 0.125 (1/8 inch) that then becomes X0 Y0 Z-0.125. The
path that your tool follows has been preprogrammed when you
designed the toolpath within ArtCam. Obviously looking at how
complex these symbols can be tells us that you could have a
program with hundreds of lines of G and M codes. Each single
line of code will have this X Y Z, since these are your
coordinates that direct the tool down a path. The more irregular
or curvy that things get will mean that your tool takes shorter
moves with more lines of code.

The computer controlled machines are very expensive. There are
two types of operations commonly found in machining, these are
milling and turning. "Mills and Lathes" in CNC terminology they
are called Machining Centers, and Turning Centers. Turning is
about machining things that are round, you can gather that round
parts normally are less complex in the world of machining then
would be parts which have irregular surfaces or perhaps a few
wierd looking features that come in all shapes and sizes.

Some of these really good program people that make complex parts
will be found working, and doing something somewhere on the
surface of mars as we speak.

>>>I can tell that you have not spent much time viewing the AA
>>>debris. Why not buy an AA CD set and then see how you feel after
>>>viewing it for awhile.

>>I do have the VHS recording Ed.

>Have you examined all the debris? If so do you think you or
>someone you know could duplicate it,(including finger panels)
>keeping in mind the realities and limitations Dennis has
>suggested?

Yes I do know someone see above.

>>>>DEBRIS MANUFACTURING OPTIONS
>>>>"The raised lettering would have to be done with a very precise
>>>>CNC (computer numeric control) machine. When I look at the
>>>>lettering I see precise rounds as parts of the symbols. I do not
>>>>think that you can do this with current milling machines."

>>>>Huh??

>>>>To think all that knowledge about machining and never heard of a
>>>>ball endmill <G>

>>>This is an example. If a "ball endmill" is the answer, I then I
>>>want a complete explanation. The link below doesn't sufice.

>>A ball end mill is a flat end mill with a half sphere on the end
>>that looks something like your finger.

>Dennis insisted that the debris wasn't milled. If you think it
>was, then explain how this could be accomplished.

>>>>http://www.artcaminsignia.com/artcam/insignia/default.asp

The appearance as shown in the debris photo Ed can be duplicated,
that is what I am saying.

<snip>

>I have not checked with other professionals but I have asked for
>folks who have difficulties with Dennis's work to do so and so
>far there haven't been any takers. You can question whatever you
>like, but since Dennis is what I call an expert witness, you'll
>need to find someone equally qualified. What are your
>qualifications? A brief search only reveals a skill at boiled
>sausage.

I'm right here Ed,

"Qualified to think? Who has the right to think, just to think".

http://home.centurytel.net/cty90143/jpeg/photos/mug.JPG

...everything we know is only some kind of approximation...
- Richard Feynman

I hope you have the opportunity to review that sausage recipe.

>>Have you presented this essay or your evidence to a professional
>>involved in any physical sciences, would they not be interested?

>Maybe, but this isn't my evidence. I didn't have anything to do
>with Dennis's analysis. You're free to do what ever you wish.
>

Well best wishes for Dennis and his analysis then...
I will not read it or eat it a second time I hate green eggs and ham.

>>>My evidence is that the debris

>>What is the evidence if not big blurry bigfoot with big feet
>>does anybody even remember him poor guy?

>I do. I look for

Bigfoot will find Ed, "look for" moonshiner hillbillies next
time you go camping or driving thru Oregon. Very dangerous. When
I drove thru on up to Seattle, one could not help but notice how
"the hills have eyes"... but no camera no pictures.

John








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                      Re: Star-Trek & UFOs? - Gonzalez

From: Luis R. Gonzalez <lrgm.nul>
Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 23:15:43 +0200
Fwd Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 09:02:26 -0400
Subject: Re: Star-Trek & UFOs? - Gonzalez


>From: James Oberg <joberg.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 09:59:32 -0600
>Subject: Re: Star-Trek & UFOs?

>>From: Aaron LeClair <force.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 04:07:46 -0500
>>Subject: Star-Trek & UFOs?

>>I would like to know what year Star-Trek aired. I know it was
>>the 60s, can't find the exact month and year. I am asking this,
>>because I am trying to find out which came first, alien
>>abduction stories where people are getting beamed up, or Star-
>>Trek beaming people up on the show. I heard that Gene R. the
>>creator of star trek, took ideas from ufology, however, I can
>>never trace anything to him. It's always second hand etc.

<snip>

>As for other abductee descriptions, the first UFO abduction on
>television that I recall is a 1961 episode of the Twilight Zone
>with Andy Devine as the hapless victim. The aliens were short,
>hairless, had holes for ears, no noses, and large slanting
>almond-shaped eyes. Such a description was rare prior to the
>broadcast, but became more typical in later years - although
>cause-and-effect is probably utterly unprovable.

James,

I suppose you refer to:

Episode # 95.
Hocus-Pocus and Frisby
gs: Andy Devine (Frisby) Dabbs Greer (Scanlan)
Milton Selzer (Alien #1) Larry Breitman (Alien #2)
Howard McNear (Mitchell)
Clem Bevans (Old Man) Peter Brocco (Creature)

Aliens overhearing Frisby's tall tales, decide to take him back
with them. He relaxes by playing his harmonica, and finds that
this knocks the aliens out. He runs off and the aliens leave.
Going back to his store, he finds a surprise birthday party
waiting for him. He tries to tell everyone of his adventure, but
no one will believe him.

Aired: 13-Apr-1962

Luis R. Gonz=E1lez Manso







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                      Re: Star-Trek & UFOs? - Gonzalez

From: Luis R. Gonzalez <lrgm.nul>
Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 23:16:51 +0200
Fwd Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 09:03:20 -0400
Subject: Re: Star-Trek & UFOs? - Gonzalez


>From: Thiago Luiz Ticchetti <thiagolt.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 12:17:35 -0300
>Subject: Re: Star-Trek & UFOs?

>>From: Aaron LeClair <force.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 04:07:46 -0500
>>Subject: Star-Trek & UFOs?

<snip>

>>I would like to know of any abduction reports on record before
>>the 60s. This would rule out Star Trek having an influence on
>>the abduction case.

>Well, here in Brazil there are two cases where the abductee was
>hit by a beam of light that I know.

>One occured in 1952 in the city of Carna=FAba, Piaui State. The
>person, Mr. Arlindo Gomes, was hit by a beam of light and got
>paralized. He was abducted and then recalled some parts of the
>event. This case wasn't researched very much because he was
>killed by a car months later.

>The other was in april 23, 1953, in the city of Mau=E1, S=E3o Paulo
>state. Mr. Willian Borges Silva, was in his car when a ball of
>light hit him in the chest. Then a great rounded UFO appeared
>and took him inside it. There he was examined by some type of
>"hairy creatures".

Dear Thiago,

I am very much surprised about those cases. It is generally
accepted that the very first abduction known was Vilas Boas, in
1957. Thomas Bullard did not mention any of your cases in his
analysis of the abduction literature. I am quite familiar with
old South American UFO cases, and I had never heard about those
cases. I am almost sure that they are backdated. Can you provide
any reference (ideally contemporary)?


Luis R. Gonzalez Manso








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                       R.A.M Stephens, Still, At Large

From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul>
Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 17:50:40 -0500
Fwd Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 09:05:44 -0400
Subject: R.A.M Stephens, Still, At Large


R.A.M Stephens, Still, At Large

Alarming! RAM Stephens is at best mere distraction, a ripple of
nonsense to scatter like wind in the murk we inhabit so far from
perfection amidst our intolerance, and fair weather friends...
At worst he's an agent of blackness despised - a stooge for the
'man', a purveyor of lies. A drone thus connected to spin party
lines - a message confusing, cross purpose, and trying. Perhaps
he's a loser, a dreamer, complainer... with visions of grandeur
- believer, campaigner. Perhaps he's bought in to what's shallow
at best. Perhaps he's enslaved to what won't stand its test.
Perhaps he's a whacko, a public buffoon, or someone who stopped
with his meds a bit soon. Whatever he's saying he's taking a
gamble, if securing attention he's made an example of all that
works hard to discredit our interest in *people from space* - to
encourage disinterest!

He speaks with a sneer, like _everything's_ clear, but dodges
the questions that gesture and cheer - or beg for their answers
in 'things' that we've seen that millions attest to, but remain
unredeemed. He fronts for the ignorant shadows, of course - he
fans up the murk like a mondo Kal Korff. And what are his
bonafides; what strange credentials are part of a makeup that
makes him essential? He says he's a SEAL, or says that he's not?
What's his agenda? What has he got? A demand to Art Bell for
unlimited air time, to play twenty questions? Far better, my
RHYME!! <g>.

For me? For my money? He's personally insulting - a little
revolting, remote, deconstructing. He's a block, or an obstacle
- a hurdle we face on the gamut we run to touch TRUTH on the
face. He has nothing new - just trots out old argument still
used like a salve, or a fraudulent unguent. He's dishonest,
deceitful, designing, disingenuous. He's conniving,
contemptible, a cad, and contemptuous! Better men are destroyed
for transgressions like these! Whither RAM Stephens? Is he
different? Oh - please!

Perhaps Bell's a shill and Hoagland's a hoaxster. Perhaps
Knapp's a fake <g>, and Rense is a jokester. Nothing in
Stephens' promotes their bad credit, and it seems that he's
worse than the ones he discredits. And where are his 'proofs';
what's he forgetting? What mistakes has he made, and why is he
fretting? His approach is quite manic, a frenzy at rest -
 thousands of E-Mails (but he answers mine best). He has all the
answers, and he's here to put right all the hounds of my
ignorance - my cognitive blight! I resent his intrusion like his
piss on my leg. He tells me it's raining!! To differ, I beg. His
tone is more strident, but it sings the old song, balloons and
old swamp gas - just strings us along.

We 'know' that there's something that watches out there. We
don't know its purpose, and it sits there and stares. And the
'boys' unelected have 'info' galore - you can bet it means
changes - I'd bet, evens the score. But they are struck
clueless, so grasp to their chests what their pay and position,
or their excess suggests. Stephens makes ridicule, and mocks all
those things that perplex, and confound us; he taunts, sneers,
and pings. He gibes proclamation with airy aplomb, but his
sarcasm's worse, a disparaging bomb. He chaffs, and he razzes,
but he's smelling the fear of a change to his worldview that's
bearing down - near!

And what is his program? What's his agenda? He's trying as hard
as he can to offend ya'. <g> Where's he get off? What is his
plan? What's the connection? Who are his fans? I'll bet they
inhabit a rabid right aisle; I'll just bet their soft hands hide
a predator's smile. Yes - there are secrets, clandestine and
dark that are buried in their dungeons, and their cellars -
 industrial parks. Along with no 'Santa' there's evil conspiracy
to dump on the masses - elitist indecency. We've corrupt
institutions! We wallow in lies that don't come from Hoagland,
Art Bell, and what flies! It's justice for sale to the moneyed
elite. It's dependence on lawyers, and cops on the beat. It's
worship for doctors, and honor for priests. It's money to
scientists who 'march' to the 'beat'.

It's him and his manner that typifies loss of all that the
cosmos could give us - at cost! His eyes look away from the
light that would shine if we looked for real answers - and
questioned our finds. And I find it strange, and a little bit
odd that he came on the scene as Firmage gave a nod. Is RAM the
planned balance to confound our credulity? Is it RAM that makes
waves to promote our stupidity? Who's the big liar? Is it
Hoagland, or Bell (?), or can RAM take his chip shots from the
bunkers of hell?


alienview.nul
EXPLORE "AlienViewGroup" at its HostPros URL.
http://www.alienview.net

JOHN FORD RESTORATION FUND - John will be released eventually.
He'll need a tax free cash stake to get on his feet. Let's put
one together for him; the bigger it is - the more attention
he gets. It could have been you. E-mail for detail.

$450.00 pledged - $300.00 collected!

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite.
What others see from afar, I leave far behind me."
- Giordano Bruno, scourged by the scabrously specious scurrilous.








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             Re: Peculiar 04-15-04 Sighting In Orlando Forida -

From: Kelly Freeman <Khfflsciufo.nul>
Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 21:01:21 EDT
Fwd Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 09:08:31 -0400
Subject: Re: Peculiar 04-15-04 Sighting In Orlando Forida -


>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 04:05:42 -0700
>Subject: Re: Peculiar 04-15-04 Sighting In Orlando Florida

>>From: Peter Davenport - NUFORC <director.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 13:53:51 -0700

>>To the List:

>>The National UFO Reporting Center just received a very
>>interesting sighting report from a woman in Orlando, FL, which I
>>thought the members of the List might like to be apprised of.

>>I spoke at length with the witness, and she seemed to me to be
>>quite lucid and objective in her description of the alleged
>>sighting. She estimated that the object she sighted was
>>approximately the size of a basketball, or a bit smaller. She
>>emphasized how suddenly and quickly the object streaked away
>>from her window, when the stray cat first noticed the object,
>>and began approaching it. The window was open, and the witness
>>viewed the object through a screen.

>>I copy below the written report from the witness.

<snip>

>>At first, I thought it was a bird...but, I realized that birds
>>don't glow. Then I looked more closely at the shape...kind of
>>oval, but more like when you cup your hands and put them
>>together, and roughly twice that size...the difference being
>>that where your fingertips would come together, there was a dark
>>wedge shape dividing the 2 halves, but only half way down. I
>>didn't see any head, or tail, nor feet...just this shape. And
>>the glowing was a muted glow, not bright, and the color was
>>somewhere between a light grey and white. And it was pulsating,
>>but only slightly.

<snip>

>Now_that_is an interesting and novel report!

>Can you give us a feel for the credibility of the witness based
>on your subjective impressions after the phone conversation?

>I would love to see a rough sketch of the object. As well and
>hard as the witness tried to describe it, I still can't quite
>visualize the shape. Do you suppose somebody could ask her for a
>drawing?

Peter, Larry and List,

Yes! I, too, would be interested in seeing a drawing of this
object that the witness sighted. This 'miniature UFO' phenomenon
is quite interesting and brings to mind the "laundry basket"
incident as related in Jacob's book, Secret Life, p.212, as well
as a sighting of a "framed object" (reported to me a few years
ago) that had come through the witness' front window. In both of
these cases, there was an abduction, as well as, alien entities
involved. I find the 'dark wedge shape' as described by the
woman particularly fascinating. Do these things "morph", and
perhaps, change size, shape and appearance?

It would be interesting to see how credible this report turns
out. Please keep us updated.


Kelly F.










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                      Re: Zeta Reticuli I & II? - Koch

From: Joachim Koch <lists.nul>
Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 13:10:14 +0100
Fwd Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 09:13:30 -0400
Subject: Re: Zeta Reticuli I & II? - Koch


Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 12:09:00 GMT
From: lists.nul <Joachim Koch>
To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
Subject: Re: Zeta Reticuli I & II?

>From: Tim Shell<tshell.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Thu,  8 Apr 2004 07:59:50 -0500
>Subject: Re: Zeta Reticuli I & II?

>program or at least something a little more accurate than Fish's
>analog near-star model?  I was looking at the Koch-Kyborg
>interpretation, that says the Betty Hill map actually represents
>our own solar system, but I'm not completely sold on it.

>Maybe the Hill map is just to crude to be useful.

Hello Tim, List,

We stated again and again that is was and is never our intention
to minimize the work Marjorie Fish had done with her models.
This work was great, it was time consuming and surely not
inexpensive. Maybe we too, like her, without a computer at time,
would have laid on our back underneath the strings with the
coloured pearls and peering from this or that arbitrary vantage
point to see if we could match Betty's pattern with our model.
So Mrs. Fish deserves all our respect.

Our approach to the whole thing was different. We came back to
Betty's map when we with our crop circle research in England
have been in the fourth year (all in all fourteen by now). We
went down there to England with an astronomic concept to get in
contact with this unknown non-human intelligence and were
successfull in our endeavour in 1991 in a most spectacular and
most positive way. With the help of 'the Phenomenon' - as we all
in England usually name this intelligence - we identified
HD42807 right in the center of the 'Winter Circle' as a
significant star for our human relationship to other
intelligences of a yet unknown dimension.

In the  meantime, we published two books about our research. The
only purpose of these books is to provide information but not to
play ourselves in the foreground or earn money. Give as you
receive.

So we were trained to look at dots and lines first from our
astronomical background and second from our research in England
dealing with circles and lines.

Betty's 'map' had never left us since we saw it for the first
time and now - after being out in the fields of Wiltshire and
among the 5000 year old standing stones which are abundant there
- we felt (for various reasons) that we should review it.

We looked at what Betty told in Fuller's book and found
inconsistencies. We looked at her 'map' and found something that
reminded us of something.

To read all this you should look at our website:

http://www.kochkyborg.de

and click there on: 'Betty Hill Case'.

There we give descriptions and show, in comparison, in colour
Betty's map, Mrs. Fish's map and the solar system how we found
it around the date of the abduction of Betty and Barney.

From what Betty told us, we have  n o  good reason to assume
that what was shown to Betty was a 'star' map. It was Mrs. Fish
who made a 'star' map out of it.

While being abducted and while Barney was somewhere else aboard
at this time, Betty stood in the same room aboard the spaceship
where she was examined before. She was alone with the "leader."
He didn't answer her question about their origin but asked her
instead if she knew anything about the universe. Betty replied:

"...And I told him no. I knew practically nothing. That when I
was in graduate school we were taught that the sun was the
center of the solar system, and there were nine planets. ..."

The 'leader' - as Betty sensed that he might have been in this
position - wanted to know her more about the Universe. In these
moments, she should receive astronomical knowledege from this
being. Never mix this up. He simply wanted to calibrate her
astronomical knowledge to see how far he could go without being
misunderstood.

And then Betty continues to tell during the hypnosis session:

"So I asked him where was his home port, and he said "Where were
you on the map?" I looked and laughed and said "I don't now." So
he said, "If you don't know where you are, then there isn't any
point of my telling where I am from." And he put the map-the map
rolled up, and he put it back in the space in the wall and
closed it."

From this crucial part of the text we asked ourselves and are
asking you: is there any reason to believe that this was really
a 'star' map? Shown to someone who does not know where there the
Earth is.

If you start to teach someone the alphabet, you start with A-B-
C... If you start to teach someone the multiplication tables you
start with numbers one, two and three.

If you start to show someone something about the Universe who
'practically knows nothing' you start with our Earth, the Moon
and the Sun and then you add Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter and
Saturn which all are visible to the naked eye. Many of you have
done so with their children.

So we thought: if it was not a 'star' map, what was it then?

You may read, see and compare what we found out on our website.

Zeta Reticuli A and B were introduced to the UFO community by
Mrs. Marjorie Fish, not by the aliens who abducted Betty and
Barney Hill.

To come to an end, we would like to state that we cannot and
will not rule out the possibility that intelligent life
originated from this region of space if we apply the model
'yellow star like our Sun with planets = possibility of
intelligent life in the HZ' to all the other 'yellow stars'.

In this light we will not forget that even the 'sports model'
might originate from Zeta Reticuli according to what Bob Lazar
read in a certain book...

But in the meantime we have learned from research results that
even on our own planet, life is possible under circumstances we
usually thought to be impossible. These circumstances we find
elsewhere for example on Titan or on reddish Sedna. We might not
necessarily need 'yellow stars' to look for life.

And, right now we learn about life in our solar system
originating from elswhere or having been elswhere than the
Earth. We are discussing artifacts and anomalies found here and
there.

While we were working on our 'New Discoveries in Betty Hill's
Star Map' we always applied the minimum chance to our results to
stay reliable. We limited ourselves to the minimum possible
result of the outcome of each step - and amazingly, we stepped
ahead.

We took the freedom to say: If we were to find out how things
could continue, we had to try to put ourselves in the role of a
UFOnaut. What would we do if we, as a species that has been
spacefaring for many hundreds of years, entered an alien solar
system?

First we quickly would determine how many planets are part of
this solar system. From previous analysis of the central
rotating star we would know the distance of the life-zone around
the star. We would approach near this habitable zone "from
above" or "from below" the orbital plane of the inner planets
and would complete our analysis.

Actually, if there would be life-forms on any of the planets, we
would study their state of development from a discrete distance
at first. Certainly, we would place our own security first in
any encounters with the life-bearing worlds. We would send out
patrols - both unmanned and manned - to determine what is going
on and would choose a place that would provide us with a maximum
vantage point without being detected.

Well, we found some - in Betty Hill's map. Quoted from the text
on our website:


"We remind the reader here of our restriction that practically
only the biggest asteroids should have chosen for expeditions.
Actually, in the positions to have a realistic reproduction of
the Hill's pattern, there were 6 of the 46 largest asteroids,
among them the second largest of all, Pallas! A remarkable
success for an experimental condition that was formulated "off
the cuff" after some imaginative thoughts. Even these six
exhibit some surprising characteristics.

All six asteroids belong to the group of the so called "Amor-
Asteroids" that never cross Earth's orbit. Our small group even
stays beyond the Martian orbit and members never come
dangerously close to either of these two planets. Each one of
the asteroids has a different angle of orbital inclination to
the ecliptic plane. If one would sit on one of our six asteroids
and would make a trip around the inner planets, one would have a
wide view of the whole system, sometimes from below, sometimes
from above.

Surprisingly, among the six asteroids we found, Pallas has the
greatest angle of orbital inclination of 34.810 of the greatest
asteroids. No other asteroid swings up so high above the
ecliptic plane before, like a cosmic Ferris wheel, flying below
it with the same distance. With its diameter of 914 km, it would
provide ideal conditions for a permanent observatory of the
whole solar system.

'Somebody' would not have to go to the trouble of constructing
and orbiting an artificial free-flight space station and would
never have to worry of being detected. The connection line from
Jupiter to Pallas is drawn as a strong line in Betty Hill's map
which means the UFOnauts attach some importance to Pallas."


We are aware that some always have difficulties with new
concepts. Some haven't been able to find a reason for accepting
our research. Well, we can cope with this - and please decide
for yourself: was it really Zeta Reticuli that Betty Hill had
seen?


Joachim Koch & Hans-Juergen Kyborg


-----------------------------------
More info: http://www.kochkyborg.de
-----------------------------------






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   Apr > Apr 18

                                Bible Code II

From: Linda Kerth <LINDAKERTH.nul>
Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 20:05:23 EDT
Fwd Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 09:19:02 -0400
Subject: Bible Code II


Drosnin has a sequel, published 2002, to the original 'Bible
Code', in which he claims to have found "Ark of Steel", Lisan and
Masra (towns in Jordan) "Welded", "Obelisks" and other terms
which he believes may relate to an alien ship.

These are terms in the 'hidden text' found by noting equidistant
letter sequences in the original Hebrew.

He's also found related words, such as "iron vehicle", "in a
vehicle there, until this day", "saved in steel", "you will see
it from there, a tiny tip of it", "across the sea on the border
of Moab" - the Biblical name for Jordan, an area very near the
Dead Sea and recently exposed by receeding waters.

Also "Obelisk sticking out, obvious", and the names of Mazra,
and Lisan, again.

He also states that the Bible Code is somehow related to our
DNA, and that both "keys" have most likely originated from outer
space by beings who may have had a singular hand in the
development of the human species.

Any comments, List-folk?


-- Linda Kerth








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   Apr > Apr 19

                Re: Steve Bassett for 'President' #4 - Kaeser

From: Steven Kaeser <steve.nul>
Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 08:45:58 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 08:40:39 -0400
Subject: Re: Steve Bassett for 'President' #4 - Kaeser


>From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 13:16:23 -0500
>Subject: Re: Steve Bassett for 'President' #4

<snip>

>>Alfred,
>
>The dismissive, pedantic, and certainly patronizing thrust of
>your overall response requires a certain formality, in the
>future... sir. You can call me Mr. Lehmberg.

Mr. Lehmberg,

Pull in your claws, sir. I dismiss foolish activity that fails
to promote the study of unknowns as a science, pure and simple.
Bassett's actions are often foolish, IMO, and I will continue to
say so. If you with to join in that foolish activity, that is
your privilege. Enjoy being a part of the three ring circus.

>>A couple of points:

>Which were (imo), largely reflexive, lacking vision, and carrying an
>obvious
>bias, but we can get into that another time. In the interests of
>brevity...?

>>While Stephen Bassett (yes, that's the correct spelling) has

>...Which meant exactly what, Mr. Kaeser? ...And I have to point
>out that if _that_ is the point with which you would lead...
>that you'd make desultory mention of a truly meaningless (and
>off-task) error like innocently leaving a "t" out of the guy's
>name... (ZOT!) ...then the roots of this discussion are not
>where you think they are, sir, and the continuance of it a
>regrettable waste of our (certainly my!) time.

For the most part, I have no need to get into a discussion
regarding this subject. I've received a couple of responses
directly, thanking me for responded to this "Mock President"
nonsense, but run with it if you will.

Let me point out that I am somewhat sensitive to the spelling of
"Steven", since that's my name. I noted that you continue to
spell Bassett's name that way, when in fact his first name is
"Stephen". Perhaps you can't find the difference in this, but
rest assured that those of us who carry that moniker are fully
aware of those who misspell it. I'm sorry that I felt forced to
correct your error... ah... Mr. Lehmberg.


Steve







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              Re: The WHY? Files Network Additions & Updates -

From: Geoffrey Richardson <geoff.nul>
Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 15:11:08 +0100
Fwd Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 08:45:03 -0400
Subject: Re: The WHY? Files Network Additions & Updates -


>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 09:06:07 -0400
>Subject: Re: The WHY? Files Network Additions & Updates

>>From: Geoffrey Richardson <geoff.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 18:25:54 +0100
>>Subject: The WHY? Files Network Additions & Updates

>>The WHY? Files Network
>>http://www.thewhyfiles.co.uk

<snip>

> it is necessary to confess that The WHY? Files ranks
>at the top with only a few other UFO sites. Also, it is
>artistically laid out and, in my opinion, excellently user
>friendly.

<snip>

>Your well illustrated and information-excellent 'flying
>triangles' and 'V- shaped objects' web pages are worthy of high
>praise.

>it is actually a service to not only the
>casual visitor, but to the serious student and to dedicated
>researchers who want to keep up with some things beyond their
>specialties.

<snip>

Ray,

Sincere thanks from Steve (Webmaster) and myself for your kind
and encouraging comments.

Such a change when compared with the negative attitudes which
have infiltrated Ufology in the U.K. over the last two years or
so. In our (admittedly limited) experience there is a great deal
of interest in Ufology on a global basis involving a true cross-
section of societies.

Thanks again,

Geoff Richardson









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   Apr > Apr 19

                Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers -

From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman.nul>
Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 09:01:59 -0700
Fwd Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 08:47:35 -0400
Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers -


>From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 18:06:00 +0200
>Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers

>>From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 09:18:13 -0500
>>Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers

>>>From: Joachim Koch <lists.nul>
>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 14:41:28 +0100
>>>Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers

>>>It was all deliberately planned. Is this so difficult to
>>>recognize?

>>I don't know. I think it's difficult to draw any solid
>>conclusions by guessing at other people's possible motives. I do
>>get suspicious about the odd connections between the Alien
>>Autopsy footage and the Philip Corso book, which should be two
>>completely separate things. But I don't know what to make of it.

>>The whole six-fingers notion, for instance. I don't recall
>>anywhere else in the popular literature where aliens are
>>mentioned as having six fingers. And then suddenly in the course
>>of a couple years, two things pop up that have that detail.
>>That, to me, has a strong disinformation stink about it. But
>>what is being disinformed? The film, or the book? Was the book
>>created to keep us barking up the wrong tree? The tree offered
>>by the AA?

>>The alien(s) itself is problematic. Why is it so obviously
>>"wrong?" It vaguely resembles a Steven Spielberg alien, but only
>>vaguely. Someone familiar enough with the UFO literature would
>>know that their alien doesn't match any of the descriptions of
>>the Roswell aliens, which are generally described as much more
>>human-like. It's not human enough to match the descriptions of
>>the contactees of the 1950's. It doesn't really match the Betty
>>and Barney Hill descriptions.

Tim, Gildas, Joacheim,EBK, List

Again, Betty Hill told me that the creature in the AA was the
same type as the creatures who abducted her.

KT Frankovich who is Betty's friend, has also identified the AA
creatures as looking exactly like the ones she saw in a Florida
lime orchard next to her house.

>>It doesn't exactly match anything.
>>Why? It would be simple enough to create an accurate "Grey,"
>>using the descriptions and drawings in Bud Hopkins's book. If
>>the film was actually created as a propaganda tool in the late
>>1940's or early 1950's, the alien in it pre-dates any known
>>description of an alien of that general type.

Yes, that's true.

>Around that time,
>>the aliens were a lot more scary. Like in the George Pal's "War
>>of the Worlds." The Alien Autopsy aliens look sad and weak and
>>not a threat at all.

We don't know the nature of the threat they pose. KT wrote that
her dogs, which would have normally attacked, simply fell into a deep
sleep.

http://www.whereheavensmeet.com/

But if they're the abductors, they seem to have powerful means
to enforce their will. I don't trust them; I'm a suspicious
person. I do feel that they're vulnerable and regard us as
dangerous in an even fight.

>>Anyway, if the goal was to deliberately mislead us, why make it
>>so easy for us to dismiss the film? Or the Corso book? I can't
>>figure that out. It makes me start to wonder, in reverse, that
>>if one was created to discredit the other, was it because we're
>>barking up the RIGHT tree? That becomes another possibility. So
>>I'm back to not knowing anything again.

Why not start with this knowledge. I hired a VSA done on Ray
(Fox TV interview) and the cameraman ( Japanese interview) and
both seemed to be telling the truth. Ray showed no deception and
the cameraman only showed stress during the part of the
interview when he said he was sorry that he had sold the
footage. While the extent of the stress showed that he was
seriously conflicted over this decision, he was not being
deceptive. At least that was the analyst's conclusion.

>I think that you have made some very good remarks here. Again,
>the scenario of the announcement (during the winter), first
>showings (first version on April 25 to a few persons, second
>version on May 5, not to mention the curious trick of the tent
>footage) and then the full public release just before the GAO
>report, in July. In France, there was an all out attack in the
>press, led by sociologist Pierre Lagrange, in the popular montly
>"Science et Vie" of August 1st, and in the trendy daily
>"Liberation" a week later, mixing everything : Roswell, the GAO
>report and the autopsy, and saying that the GAO had accepted the
>Mogul explanation ! As for the AAF, it denounced the "green
>blood" as a proof of the hoax ! This ridiculous detail was
>copied bravely by many papers. One magazine, "L'evenement du
>Jeudi" said that the GAO report had revealed the Mogul
>explanation. It was a beautiful disaster, maybe a well planned
>operation.

>Now, about the story of the cameraman, I don't believe one word
>of it. And that extends to the "revelation" of the Socorro crash
>site.

But what has led you to this conclusion? I believed the
cameraman, and his directions led me to an old lake bed, at the
end of a canyon, where the earth and vegetation had been
subjected to a scorching heat of some kind and the rocks and
dirt and sand an outcroppings were covered with a strange blue,
glass-like material.

This site also matched, exactly, in specific detail, a drawing
directed by the cameraman. I tested the material with XRD and it
was cristobalite.

There are no known deposits of cristobalite in this area, and
there are no known deposits anywhere in the world like the one
at the site. So how did the cameraman put all this together? In
other words, how could he be so right about everything if he
were lying?


Ed







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   Apr > Apr 19

               Re: Meteor Showers Rocks On Midwestern Homes -

From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul>
Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 14:25:20 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
Fwd Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 08:48:25 -0400
Subject: Re: Meteor Showers Rocks On Midwestern Homes -


>From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 10:47:50 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
>Subject: Re: Meteor Showers Rocks On Midwestern Homes

>>From: Chaz Stuart <Daydisk2.nul>
>>Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 00:11:57 -0500 (EST)
>>To: virtuallystrange.nul
>>Subject: Meteor Showers Rocks On Midwestern Homes

><snip>

>>http://www.lasvegassun.com/sunbin/stories/text/2003/mar/27/032704470.html

><snip>

>The flag of the City of Chicago contains four red stars. The
>second star represents the Great Chicago Fire of October 1871.
>From eyewitness accounts at the time, it is now accepted that
>Chicago and other communities in neighbouring states were
>simultaneously destroyed by such a "falling star". Yes, there
>have been other much more powerful and more recent celestial
>attacks by Nature, but this was the first time that a large
>American city was destroyed in such a way.

>This most recent bombardment of Chicago from space, although a
>much smaller celestial attack, reminds us just how frequent and
>real the threat from space is to life on Earth. Just last summer
>a small asteroid exploded over the Mediterranean Sea. The
>explosion was as powerful as the blast of a nuclear bomb. If
>this object impacted with Earth just a couple of hours earlier,
>it would have exploded over the Pakistan-India border and
>considering the heightened tensions between these two countries
>at that time, it could have triggered a nuclear war and resulted
>in millions of casualities.

Hi Everyone!

Below is a follow-up news story about what I think is another
very noteworthy multiple meteor event that happened over
midwestern U.S.A. in March 28, 2003.

http://spaceflightnow.com/news/n0404/14meteorite/

This multiple meteor event happened one year before many similar
bright meteors or UFOs were reported all across Canada on March
26, 2004.

http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2003/mar/m28-004.shtml

If the meteors reported in 2003 and 2004 are related, they may
turn out to be a new major annual meteor shower. As the Earth
orbits the Sun, when it passes through this same region in our
solar system again late in March 2005, there could be many more
numerous bright meteors or UFOs reported then too.


Nick Balaskas








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   Apr > Apr 19

                      Re: Zeta Reticuli I & II? - Hatch

From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 11:37:06 -0700
Fwd Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 08:51:21 -0400
Subject: Re: Zeta Reticuli I & II? - Hatch


>From: Joachim Koch <lists.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 13:10:14 +0100
>Subject: Re: Zeta Reticuli I & II?

>Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 12:09:00 GMT
>From: lists.nul <Joachim Koch>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Subject: Re: Zeta Reticuli I & II?

>>From: Tim Shell<tshell.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 07:59:50 -0500
>>Subject: Re: Zeta Reticuli I & II?

>>program or at least something a little more accurate than Fish's
>>analog near-star model? I was looking at the Koch-Kyborg
>>interpretation, that says the Betty Hill map actually represents
>>our own solar system, but I'm not completely sold on it.

>>Maybe the Hill map is just to crude to be useful.

>We stated again and again that is was and is never our intention
>to minimize the work Marjorie Fish had done with her models.
>This work was great, it was time consuming and surely not
>inexpensive. Maybe we too, like her, without a computer at time,
>would have laid on our back underneath the strings with the
>coloured pearls and peering from this or that arbitrary vantage
>point to see if we could match Betty's pattern with our model.
>So Mrs. Fish deserves all our respect.

>Our approach to the whole thing was different. We came back to
>Betty's map when we with our crop circle research in England
>have been in the fourth year (all in all fourteen by now). We
>went down there to England with an astronomic concept to get in
>contact with this unknown non-human intelligence and were
>successfull in our endeavour in 1991 in a most spectacular and
>most positive way. With the help of 'the Phenomenon' - as we all
>in England usually name this intelligence - we identified
>HD42807 right in the center of the 'Winter Circle' as a
>significant star for our human relationship to other
>intelligences of a yet unknown dimension.

<snip>

>We looked at what Betty told in Fuller's book and found
>inconsistencies. We looked at her 'map' and found something that
>reminded us of something.

>To read all this you should look at our website:

>http://www.kochkyborg.de

>and click there on: 'Betty Hill Case'.
>There we give descriptions and show, in comparison, in colour
>Betty's map, Mrs. Fish's map and the solar system how we found
>it around the date of the abduction of Betty and Barney.

>>From what Betty told us, we have no good reason to assume
>that what was shown to Betty was a 'star' map. It was Mrs. Fish
>who made a 'star' map out of it.

>While being abducted and while Barney was somewhere else aboard
>at this time, Betty stood in the same room aboard the spaceship
>where she was examined before. She was alone with the "leader."
>He didn't answer her question about their origin but asked her
>instead if she knew anything about the universe. Betty replied:

>"...And I told him no. I knew practically nothing. That when I
>was in graduate school we were taught that the sun was the
>center of the solar system, and there were nine planets. ..."

>The 'leader' - as Betty sensed that he might have been in this
>position - wanted to know her more about the Universe. In these
>moments, she should receive astronomical knowledege from this
>being. Never mix this up. He simply wanted to calibrate her
>astronomical knowledge to see how far he could go without being
>misunderstood.

>And then Betty continues to tell during the hypnosis session:

>"So I asked him where was his home port, and he said "Where were
>you on the map?" I looked and laughed and said "I don't now." So
>he said, "If you don't know where you are, then there isn't any
>point of my telling where I am from." And he put the map-the map
>rolled up, and he put it back in the space in the wall and
>closed it."

>From this crucial part of the text we asked ourselves and are
>asking you: is there any reason to believe that this was really
>a 'star' map? Shown to someone who does not know where there the
>Earth is.

Hello Joachim:

I have certain problems with this story. From all their
other behavior, I doubt that space aliens would give
even a clue as to their point of origin. Granted they
didn't indicate one to Betty Hill, but would they even
show her a relevant map, or something misleading instead?

I wonder if this wasn't a simple test (if you credit that part
of the account of course), just to see just how much or little a
person taken at random, knows about the cosmos.

<snip>

>So we thought: if it was not a 'star' map, what was it then?

>You may read, see and compare what we found out on our website.

>Zeta Reticuli A and B were introduced to the UFO community by
>Mrs. Marjorie Fish, not by the aliens who abducted Betty and
>Barney Hill.

>To come to an end, we would like to state that we cannot and
>will not rule out the possibility that intelligent life
>originated from this region of space if we apply the model
>'yellow star like our Sun with planets = possibility of
>intelligent life in the HZ' to all the other 'yellow stars'.

>In this light we will not forget that even the 'sports model'
>might originate from Zeta Reticuli according to what Bob Lazar
>read in a certain book...

I don't think Lazar's input is particularly helpful.

<snip>

>Well, we found some - in Betty Hill's map. Quoted from the text
>on our website:

>"We remind the reader here of our restriction that practically
>only the biggest asteroids should have chosen for expeditions.
>Actually, in the positions to have a realistic reproduction of
>the Hill's pattern, there were 6 of the 46 largest asteroids,
>among them the second largest of all, Pallas! A remarkable
>success for an experimental condition that was formulated "off
>the cuff" after some imaginative thoughts. Even these six
>exhibit some surprising characteristics.

>All six asteroids belong to the group of the so called "Amor-
>Asteroids" that never cross Earth's orbit. Our small group even
>stays beyond the Martian orbit and members never come
>dangerously close to either of these two planets. Each one of
>the asteroids has a different angle of orbital inclination to
>the ecliptic plane. If one would sit on one of our six asteroids
>and would make a trip around the inner planets, one would have a
>wide view of the whole system, sometimes from below, sometimes
>from above.

>Surprisingly, among the six asteroids we found, Pallas has the
>greatest angle of orbital inclination of 34.810 of the greatest
>asteroids. No other asteroid swings up so high above the
>ecliptic plane before, like a cosmic Ferris wheel, flying below
>it with the same distance. With its diameter of 914 km, it would
>provide ideal conditions for a permanent observatory of the
>whole solar system.

The asteroids would be an ideal place to park a base, lost in
the clutter of "minor planets". Personally, I would choose to
hide behind one that does _not_ stand out from the rest in any
special way. Why behind? To mask off waste heat we might see as
an anomaly. I would avoid the Kirkwood Gaps (see link below) or
anything else that attracts special attention and study.

>'Somebody' would not have to go to the trouble of constructing
>and orbiting an artificial free-flight space station and would
>never have to worry of being detected. The connection line from
>Jupiter to Pallas is drawn as a strong line in Betty Hill's map
>which means the UFOnauts attach some importance to Pallas."

Then there is the problem of motion. Any static 2-dimensional
map of asteroids will go out of date immediately as they all
shift with respect to one another. I doubt if any two have the
same exact period of rotation about the Sun. A computer model
that can run forward and backward would be far better. Then one
could run off a static map for any one point in time. Maybe
Betty Hill saw something like that.

Here is a nice histogram showing periods of rotation for known
asteroids. Note the "Kirkwood Gaps" where entire bands are swept
clear by resonance with Jupiter's orbit.

http://ssd.jpl.nasa.gov/a_histo.html


Best wishes

- Larry Hatch








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   Apr > Apr 19

                       Re: Bible Code II - Scheldroup

From: John Scheldroup <jschel.nul>
Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 14:21:09 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 08:55:40 -0400
Subject: Re: Bible Code II - Scheldroup


>From: Linda Kerth <LINDAKERTH.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 20:05:23 EDT
>Subject: Bible Code II

>Drosnin has a sequel, published 2002, to the original 'Bible
>Code', in which he claims to have found "Ark of Steel", Lisan and
>Masra (towns in Jordan) "Welded", "Obelisks" and other terms
>which he believes may relate to an alien ship.

>These are terms in the 'hidden text' found by noting equidistant
>letter sequences in the original Hebrew.

>He's also found related words, such as "iron vehicle", "in a
>vehicle there, until this day", "saved in steel", "you will see
>it from there, a tiny tip of it", "across the sea on the border
>of Moab" - the Biblical name for Jordan, an area very near the
>Dead Sea and recently exposed by receeding waters.

>Also "Obelisk sticking out, obvious", and the names of Mazra,
>and Lisan, again.

>He also states that the Bible Code is somehow related to our
>DNA, and that both "keys" have most likely originated from outer
>space by beings who may have had a singular hand in the
>development of the human species.

>Any comments, List-folk?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/1773871.stm

"During the 20th Century, the water level of the Dead Sea
dropped continuously from about 390 metres (1,280 feet) below
sea level in 1930 to 414 m (1,360 ft) below sea level in 1999,
with the average rate of fall accelerating in recent years."


http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/r?frd/cstdy:.nul(DOCID+jo0035)

"The Dead Sea occupies the deepest depression on the land
surface of the earth. The depth of the depression is accentuated
by the surrounding mountains and highlands that rise to
elevations of 800 to 1,200 meters above sea level. The sea's
greatest depth is about 430 meters, and it thus reaches a point
more than 825 meters below sea level. A drop in the level of the
sea has caused the former Lisan Peninsula to become a land
bridge dividing the sea into separate northern and southern
basins. Data as of December 1989"


http://www.sciencedaily.com/encyclopedia/dead_sea

"The water level has been dropping by as much as one meter per
year, and the total surface area is now almost 1/3 less than it
was 50 years ago."






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   Apr > Apr 19

                    Cache Of The UFO Evidence 1964 Found

From: Richard Hall <hallrichard99.nul>
Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 19:32:58 +0000
Fwd Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 08:59:46 -0400
Subject: Cache Of The UFO Evidence 1964 Found


Dr. John Carlson found a cache of The UFO Evidence from 1964
that he is offering for sale, with part of the income to benefit
the Donald E. Keyhoe Archives. See below for details.

 - Richard Hall

-----

Dr. John B. Carlson at the University of Maryland, a long-time
collector of UFO literature and a Board member of the Fund for
UFO Research, has discovered a small prize from a storage area.
He found a box containing 11 copies of The UFO Evidence, Vol. I
(1964) in like-new condition. They have no stains, tears, or
flaws, and look as if they just came off the press.

Dr. Carlson is making the following offer. He will sell them,
first come first served, for $80 each and Richard Hall will
personally inscribe them to the buyers. For each copy sold, he
will donate 30% ($24) to the Donald E. Keyhoe Archives. Price
includes Media Mail in the U.S. and $1.50 toward overseas
mailing rates.

Place your orders to Richard Hall by check, money order, or
PayPal (link provided on web site: www.hallrichard.com; PayPal
e-mail address is dh12.nul).

The orders will be forwarded to Dr. Carlson and he will mail the
volumes from College Park.









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   Apr > Apr 19

              Re: Chupacabras On The Prowl Again In Argentia? -

From: Fern Belzil <fbelzil.nul>
Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 14:25:03 -0600
Fwd Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 09:03:51 -0400
Subject: Re: Chupacabras On The Prowl Again In Argentia? -


>From: Scott Corrales <lornis1.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 11:42:34 -0400
>Subject: Chupacabras On The Prowl Again In Argentia?

>Source: El Diario (Parana-Province of Entre R=EDos)
>Date: O4-07-2004

>Is The Chupacabras On The Prowl Again?

>The legend of the infamous Chupacabras has reappeared once
>more in Entre R=EDos, and this time close to our city, San
>Benito.

>Police sources said yesterday that last Saturday, the sheriff's
>office of the neighboring community was visited by a farmer from
>the rural area who identified himself as Emilio Fernando Kint,
>59, who stated that on that day he had noticed one of his
>animals was missing. Immediately, he went in search of the stray
>bovine and found it lying in a thicket.

>Upon approaching it to see what was wrong, he found that his
>animal was missing a left eye, hide and flesh in a 5 centimeter
>circumference  around its belly. What startled the farmer the
>most was the absence of blood on the animal and anywhere in the
>vicinity. Kint stated that he called a private veterinarian who
>visited the site and attested to the missing organs, but who was
>otherwise unable to offer an explanation for the animal's death.

>During his exposition, the farmer also mentioned that a few
>nights ago he had seen strange lights in the firmament,
>precisely over the place where he found the animal. He added
>that not far from there he found a large circle of flattened
>grass whose cause was unknown.


List:

I investigate mutilations in Canada, does anyone know how or
where I could get pictures of the Chupacabras that are
mutilating animals in Argentia.

Thank you,

Fern Belzil
St Paul
Alberta Canada











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   Apr > Apr 19

                          Re: Bible Code II - Myers

From: Royce J. Myers III <ufowatchdog.nul>
Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 13:53:22 -0700
Fwd Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 09:18:03 -0400
Subject: Re: Bible Code II - Myers


>From: Linda Kerth <LINDAKERTH.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 20:05:23 EDT
>Subject: Bible Code II

>Drosnin has a sequel, published 2002, to the original 'Bible
>Code', in which he claims to have found "Ark of Steel", Lisan and
>Masra (towns in Jordan) "Welded", "Obelisks" and other terms
>which he believes may relate to an alien ship.

>These are terms in the 'hidden text' found by noting equidistant
>letter sequences in the original Hebrew.

>He's also found related words, such as "iron vehicle", "in a
>vehicle there, until this day", "saved in steel", "you will see
>it from there, a tiny tip of it", "across the sea on the border
>of Moab" - the Biblical name for Jordan, an area very near the
>Dead Sea and recently exposed by receeding waters.

>Also "Obelisk sticking out, obvious", and the names of Mazra,
>and Lisan, again.

>He also states that the Bible Code is somehow related to our
>DNA, and that both "keys" have most likely originated from outer
>space by beings who may have had a singular hand in the
>development of the human species.

>Any comments, List-folk?

Sean Morton promotoes the bible code - that says it all right
there for me.

Also, the 'obelisk' reference always make me think of that rat
fraud 'Dr.Reed'. Two morons in a pod... how fitting.

On a serious note, not sure about the Bible code stuff.....


Regards,

Royce J. Myers III
UFOWATCHDOG.COM









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   Apr > Apr 19

                       Steve Bassett For President #5

From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul>
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 07:32:50 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 09:19:50 -0400
Subject: Steve Bassett For President #5


Folks!

UFOs, the abduction phenomena, scary current events, and the
Government's (elected or non-elected) secret knowledge regarding
these things... has a tremulous, albeit tremendous (!) chance of
getting some prime time 'air' this election cycle, if we don't
blow it! If we don't cut off our individual noses to spite our
collective face! If we don't, as a result of canted principles,
allow ourselves to succeed. If we don't act like rigid and
uncompromising knee-jerk ideologues... if we don't insist on
failing to see the forest for one freaking tree!

The opportunity to accomplish this is monumental, rare, and
completely unintended. Like the internet, it wasn't 'supposed'
to happen. Here is a chance for regular, primetime, and national
(world actually!) exposure for concerns and interests that don't
_remotely_ get the attention... most of us reading would see
that those concerns get! Here is an opportunity to really stick
it to those who would define our realities for us, shortchange
our potentialities for us, and hamstring our capabilities for
us!

Here's a chance for the little guy (you and me!) to end-run the
cultural bulk and conflicted intentions of our corrupted
institutions, agencies, and governments... and thrust the light
of inquiry deeply under the rock of jealous non-disclosure!
We're allowed an un-forecast and surprising chance to wrest
victory from the jaws of defeat, to get expansive, regular, and
pervasive attention on the coming of a newer (larger!) reality,
and kick our national (world?) consciousness to a new level this
summer. Ladies and gentlemen... the fish are jumping and the
cotton is high!

Steve Bassett, like the rest of us, lacks the blue blood,
ethical and unethical political connections, and the huge
pocketbooks of those who 'do' run for the office of President of
the United States. But he has a chance via this "Showtime" Cable
TV opportunity this summer to prosecute a candidacy for that
office like he was! In that way he is no different than those
who run for the actual office! He'll get significant airtime to
address challenging issues, and they will be issues that are
unfiltered by 'insiders' and 'party hacks'. They will be 'our'
issues! Like I say... this opportunity is pure serendipity,
unlikely providence, and fortuitous fate if we take advantage of
it! If we grasp and hold fast...!!!

Taking advantage of it couldn't be easier as it turns out!

Just go to this site "Showtime" internet site:
http://www.americancandidate.com/candidate_homepage.php?id1

...and push Steve's "support me" button to the right of his
portrait. That's all... The 12 with the most votes will be
chosen, soon, for 10 weeks of the show and then Steve is on his
own for the show-run, but for us providing our weekly support
via the internet to keep him on the ticket for as long as we
can! You don't have to be an American to make your support
count, so this is a good chance for the whole world to weigh in
on what they consider important and have the subjects of
exopolitics and UFOs injected 'deeply' into the national
(world?) consciousness.

Steve Bassett is an articulate, focused, serious, and
intelligent person, forgetting that he is decidedly lucid and
coherent with a not a whacko's bone in his body... He is just
the person to keep legs on this thing and has some knowledge on
how to run a political campaign based on an unsuccessful run (on
our platform!) for Congress last election... we couldn't ask for
a better marriage of person and circumstances than Steve
Bassett, whatever ones personal feelings might be on the subject
of Steve personally. Said and done, after all concerns are met
and addressed... Steve's hull, is decidedly un-breached, still.
He's _just_ the guy to do this. I'm confident.

If you're interested in hearing Steve tell you a little more
regarding what he's about, check out:

http://radio.atlantisrising.com/HillyRose/223_Steven_Bassett/223_Steven_Bassett.
ram

(watch the wrap and cut and paste the URL as necessary...) for
an in-depth interview with Hilly Rose.

If you haven't yet done so, go over to the Showtime URL above and hit
Steve's button. I think you'll be gratified to discover what you've
energized.

Remember - anybody can play, anybody can have a hand in this!
Age and nationality are immaterial! Vote STEVE! Disclosure NOW!
Pass this on, tell your friends. Cross-post this message
everywhere you can - anywhere you can think of! Get the word
out! Let's not blow this wonderful opportunity for... not
answers... better QUESTIONS!

Vote Steve Bassett!

alienview.nul

EXPLORE "AlienViewGroup" at its HostPros URL.
http://www.alienview.net


JOHN FORD RESTORATION FUND - John will be released eventually.
He'll need a tax free cash stake to get on his feet. Let's put
one together for him; the bigger it is - the more attention
he gets. It could have been you. E-mail for detail.
$450.00 pledged - $300.00 collected!

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite.
What others see from afar, I leave far behind me."
- Giordano Bruno, scourged by the scabrously specious scurrilous.







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   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   Apr > Apr 19

                         Any X-Conference Reactions?

From: Steven Kaeser <steve.nul>
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 08:38:08 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 09:20:50 -0400
Subject: Any X-Conference Reactions?


The X-Conference took place this past weekend in Gaithersburg,
MD and it received almost not publicity from the local media
that I've been able to find. From descriptions, the event was
well attended, but so far no reactions have been posted. Just
curious.


Steven








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   Apr > Apr 19

                       UFO Seen Whizzing Over Winnipeg

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 06:18:24 -0700
Fwd Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 16:43:33 -0400
Subject: UFO Seen Whizzing Over Winnipeg


Source: Thw Winnepeg Sun

http://www.canoe.ca/NewsStand/WinnipegSun/News/2004/04/19/428019.html

Mon, April 19, 2004


UFO Seen Whizzing Over City

Mystery light unexplained

By Natalie Pona - Staff Reporter

The truth is out there. And it may have zoomed over Winnipeg
last month. Three air traffic controllers at Winnipeg
International Airport were among the witnesses who reported
seeing an unidentified flying object streak thorough the sky on
March 28 about 9:45 p.m.

"I don't think this was the 5:15 from Mars on an approach, but
certainly we have to classify it as unexplained. We don't have
any evidence to classify this as an extraterrestrial. It's
puzzling," said Chris Rutkowski, a Winnipeg UFO researcher.

Didn't appear on radar

Rutkowski interviewed the three air traffic controllers who saw
the object.

"It sounded a little like an airplane ... but they were
absolutely positive (it wasn't)," he said, adding the object did
not appear on the airport's radar.

One eyewitness, who asked to remain anonymous, said the object
looked like a bright red point of light travelling low in the
southwestern sky.

"I don't particularly believe in Martians but I have an open
mind. There is something else out there," the man said.

It seemed to be flying at more than 400 kilometres per hour from
west to east, he added.

"It was kind of angling away," he said.

He watched the object for 30 seconds, until it imploded into a
smaller white light then disappeared.

Another witness, who also asked not to be named, said he had no
idea what the object was.

"I've seen a lot of things and we can't find an explanation for
this," he said.

Rutkowski said there were nine reports of UFOs that were similar
in description from across Canada that same night.

"So in this case, now we have very qualified multiple
observers," he said.

There are about 700 documented UFO sightings each year in
Canada, he said.

Rutkowski is hoping to locate more people who saw the object.









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   Apr > Apr 19

               Re: Steve Bassett for 'President' #4 - Lehmberg

From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul>
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 08:48:32 -0500
Fwd Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 16:46:30 -0400
Subject: Re: Steve Bassett for 'President' #4 - Lehmberg


>From: Steven Kaeser <steve.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 08:45:58 -0400
>Subject: Re: Steve Bassett for 'President' #4

>>From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 13:16:23 -0500
>>Subject: Re: Steve Bassett for 'President' #4

><snip>

>>>Alfred,

>>The dismissive, pedantic, and certainly patronizing thrust of
>>your overall response requires a certain formality, in the
>>future... sir. You can call me Mr. Lehmberg.

>Mr. Lehmberg,

>Pull in your claws, sir. I dismiss foolish activity that fails
>to promote the study of unknowns as a science, pure and simple.

I submit to you then, sir, that you are in danger of acquiring
function without form, process without imagination, and design
without art. Mainstream science turns its back on your pretty
oblivious sentiment and has done _nothing_ to promote a study of
_these_ unknowns, and what is usually addressed as "pure and
simple" is never pure and seldom simple. Additionally, you ain't
seen claws yet, Mr. Kaeser.

>Bassett's actions are often foolish, IMO, and I will continue to
>say so.

No problems here.  ...Opinions and navels.  ...I've a few of
those myself.

>If you with to join in that foolish activity, that is
>your privilege. Enjoy being a part of the three ring circus.

Well - I think your conflicted judgment is inappropriate,
immaterial, and abusive, sir.  I think it takes too narrow a
view, panders after what ultimately has _no_ respect for you (or
Richard Hall), and seems incapable of seeing the forest for
'one' freaking tree!  Moreover, in the condition of 'no other
way', and a three ring circus presents itself?  You are a
crippled ideologue if you don't seize the opportunity and make
what you can of the center ring!

>>>A couple of points:

>>Which were (imo), largely reflexive, lacking vision, and
>>carrying an >>obvious bias, but we can get into that another
>>time. In the interests of brevity...?

>>>While Stephen Bassett (yes, that's the correct spelling) has

>>...Which meant exactly what, Mr. Kaeser? ...And I have to point
>>out that if _that_ is the point with which you would lead...
>>that you'd make desultory mention of a truly meaningless (and
>>off-task) error like innocently leaving a "t" out of the guy's
>>name... (ZOT!) ...then the roots of this discussion are not
>>where you think they are, sir, and the continuance of it a
>>regrettable waste of our (certainly my!) time.

>For the most part, I have no need to get into a discussion
>regarding this subject. I've received a couple of responses
>directly, thanking me for responded to this "Mock President"
>nonsense, but run with it if you will.

Well - I've got 26,470 votes, currently, that say otherwise,
don't share the attitude of the paltry few who have written you,
and... one mans 'nonsense' is anther mans impassioned
'activity'.  I think you're being myopic, canted, and reflexive
on this when it's no skin off your nose and has every chance to
advance the serious interest that you bemoan the loss of.  This
won't 'kill' our ufology, by any means, Mr. Kaeser, and has
_every_ chance of advancing it.

>Let me point out that I am somewhat sensitive to the spelling of
>"Steven", since that's my name. I noted that you continue to
>spell Bassett's name that way, when in fact his first name is
>"Stephen". Perhaps you can't find the difference in this, but
>rest assured that those of us who carry that moniker are fully
>aware of those who misspell it. I'm sorry that I felt forced to
>correct your error... ah... Mr. Lehmberg.

"Ah"? Uh-huh.

With a moniker like Alfred Emanuel Lehmberg III (I've produced a
IV and current thinking suggests the IV will produce a "V"),
I've developed a callused sensitivity to mis-spellings of _my_
name, Mr. Kaeser... misspelling that can get downright
insulting.  I don't let it, remotely, bother me anymore.  I
suggest you employ a similar tactic.

Now, sir, quit bein' such a damned lock-kneed ufological pill
...and go over to hit Steve's (that's safe, huh?) "support me"
button!

http://www.americancandidate.com/candidate_homepage.php?id1

Everybody!  We have little to lose (...no serious gains, after
all, in the last half a freakin' CENTURY!!!), and much possible
to gain!  Sure, its a show!  But... and this is a _key_ point
(!) ...with regard to Steve Bassett and the serious approach
that he's going to take on it (I suspect)... it's no freaking
FANTASY! Vote Steve!


alienview.nul

EXPLORE "AlienViewGroup" at its HostPros URL.
http://www.alienview.net


JOHN FORD RESTORATION FUND - John will be released eventually.
He'll need a tax free cash stake to get on his feet. Let's put
one together for him; the bigger it is - the more attention
he gets. It could have been you. E-mail for detail.
$450.00 pledged - $300.00 collected!

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite.
What others see from afar, I leave far behind me."
- Giordano Bruno, scourged by the scabrously specious scurrilous.








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   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   Apr > Apr 19

                        Re: Bible Code II - Dickenson

From: Ray Dickenson <editor.nul>
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 17:05:26 +0100
Fwd Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 16:49:13 -0400
Subject: Re: Bible Code II - Dickenson


>From: Royce J. Myers III <ufowatchdog.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 13:53:22 -0700
>Subject: Re: Bible Code II

>>From: Linda Kerth <LINDAKERTH.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 20:05:23 EDT
>>Subject: Bible Code II

>>Any comments, List-folk?

>On a serious note, not sure about the Bible code stuff.....

And a swift fortean response from Tim Chapman seems fairly
conclusive:

"Brendan McKay's yer man -

http://cs.anu.edu.au/~bdm/dilugim/torah.html

"Scientific Refutation of the Bible Codes by Brendan McKay and
Friends"

Cheers

Ray D

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Perceptions" http://www.perceptions.couk.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~







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   Apr > Apr 20

                          Re: Bible Code II - White

From: Eleanor White <eleanor.nul>
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 17:43:41 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:14:06 -0400
Subject: Re: Bible Code II - White


>From: Ray Dickenson <editor.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 17:05:26 +0100
>Subject: Re: Bible Code II

<snip>

>And a swift fortean response from Tim Chapman seems fairly
>conclusive:

>"Brendan McKay's yer man -

>http://cs.anu.edu.au/~bdm/dilugim/torah.html

>"Scientific Refutation of the Bible Codes by Brendan McKay and
>Friends"


Has anyone on the List every actually tried out the software
used to extract the Bible codes? The reason I ask is that in my
(involuntary) field of endeavour, the exposure of advanced
technology used to torture innocent citizens in their homes and
communities, we find that so-called refutations of information
themselves can be bogus.

Kind of like government attempts to explain away UFO incidents.

Before I were to bury Bible codes as refuted, I would want to
run the software which extracts the codes for myself. (And
probably have a Bible code researcher comment on the software I
was using.)


Eleanor White







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   Apr > Apr 20

                    Steve Bassett For President #5 - Page

From: Trevor Page <webmaster.nul>
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 18:11:37 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:18:40 -0400
Subject: Steve Bassett For President #5 - Page


>From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 07:32:50 -0500
>Subject: Steve Bassett For President #5

<snip>

>Steve Bassett, like the rest of us, lacks the blue blood,
>ethical and unethical political connections, and the huge
>pocketbooks of those who 'do' run for the office of President of
>the United States. But he has a chance via this "Showtime" Cable
>TV opportunity this summer to prosecute a candidacy for that
>office like he was! In that way he is no different than those
>who run for the actual office! He'll get significant airtime to
>address challenging issues, and they will be issues that are
>unfiltered by 'insiders' and 'party hacks'. They will be 'our'
>issues! Like I say... this opportunity is pure serendipity,
>unlikely providence, and fortuitous fate if we take advantage of
>it! If we grasp and hold fast...!!!

>Taking advantage of it couldn't be easier as it turns out!

>Just go to this site "Showtime" internet site:

>http://www.americancandidate.com/candidate_homepage.php?id1

>...and push Steve's "support me" button to the right of his
>portrait. That's all... The 12 with the most votes will be
>chosen, soon, for 10 weeks of the show and then Steve is on his
>own for the show-run, but for us providing our weekly support
>via the internet to keep him on the ticket for as long as we
>can! You don't have to be an American to make your support
>count, so this is a good chance for the whole world to weigh in
>on what they consider important and have the subjects of
>exopolitics and UFOs injected 'deeply' into the national
>(world?) consciousness.

<snip>

Mr. Bassett is currently sitting @ 12th place in the top 100
supported. Please go and vote for him, its our chance to get
some "air time" on  the issue.

BTW, this might be a little unethical but since this is a "mock"
election and TV show I don't have a problem conveying that you
can  artificially "push" the votes by deleting the site cookie
from your  browser. This way you can vote multiple times. A more
adept programmer  could write something that could do this
automatically :)

Have fun!






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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   Apr > Apr 20

                        Humanoid Reports 01 - 04 2004

From: Albert Rosales <Garuda79.nul>
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 22:47:53 EDT
Fwd Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:39:52 -0400
Subject: Humanoid Reports 01 - 04 2004


We began the year 2004 with a bizarre encounter in Chile and one
in Mexico involving a law enforcement officer.

1.
Location: Ivanovo, Russia
Date: January 1 2004     Time: 0100A
The main witness and two friends were celebrating the advent of
a new year, but had only drank a little bit of champagne and
were out walking the streets. The men suddenly noticed a large
orange sphere that seemed to descend and approach their
position. The sphere then hovered above some nearby fir trees.
As the men stared at it, the main witness looked around and
spotted a strange "person" some meters away, which immediately
he realized that it was not normal or human. It had what
appeared to be a "snout" and was staring at the witness in a
mocking grin. It then turned sideways and the witness was
stunned to see that completely flat in appearance, like it had
been run over by an asphalt roller. At this time the witness
felt a strong invisible wave that struck him and knocked him
down against the icy ground. As he got up the sphere and the
strange humanoid had disappeared he turned to his friends, who
apparently had not seen the humanoid but saw the orange sphere.

HC addendum
Source: X-Libri UFO Russia, quoting "Chronometer" Magazine
1-13-2004.     Type: C?


2.
Location: Rome Italy
Date: January 1 2004     Time: 1600
A public servant on his way back home sighted a strange object
resembling a wedge without wings emitting different tones of
orange light. The object remained suspended overhead briefly
before moving away at high speed. Later that same day as the
witness was lying in bed he suddenly felt himself totally
immobile, although totally aware of his surroundings. He was
able to open his eyes and saw standing before him a humanoid
face, green in color with large black eyes staring at him.
During the incident he heard a strong "metallic" buzzing sound.
When he was suddenly able to move he attempted to strike the
figure in front of him but it suddenly vanished in plain sight.

HC addendum
Source: Roberto Malini, Italy     Type: E

3.
Location: Viluco, Chile
Date: January 5 2004     Time: 0515A
40-year old driver Juan Berrios was on his on an errand on Santa
Filomena Street on his way to Las Vertientes terminal when at
about 70 meters in front of his car he noticed a strange figure
standing on the middle of the road. He rubbed his eyes and then
saw nothing and kept on driving, at about 5 meters away the
bizarre figure again appeared. Stunned at what he was seeing
Berrios almost lost control of his vehicle as he swerved around
the figure almost upending the vehicle. The strange creature had
what appeared to be the carcass of a bloodied dog clutched in
his jaws. The creature suddenly jumped and disappeared into the
brush. Berrios described the creature as about 1.50m in height,
with large hind legs like a kangaroo, small curved front arms
that ended in claw like protrusions, a spiky dorsal fin on its
back, and a tail resembling that of a rattler on a snake. The
facial features were also bizarre; it had a wolf-like snout,
several sharp rows of teeth, and fierce-looking red eyes. It
jumped a height of about 5 meters and disappeared from sight.

HC addendum
Source: Juan Maulen, quoting La Cuarta Newspaper
January 29 2004     Type: E


4.
Location: Wise County, Texas
Date: January 12 2004     Time: night
A young girl reported encountering a large black bird-like
creature outside a schoolyard in Wise County. No other
information.

HC addendum
Source: Ericca Cordier, Dean Stermer, Conspiracy Cafe     Type: E


5.
Location: Jordanow, Poland
Date: January 13 2004     Time: 0258A
48-year old, L K was lying in bed with his face turned towards
the window. Suddenly he woke up with a strange feeling that
something odd was happening in the street. He opened his eyes
and noticed a ball, which was hanging in the sky. It shone with
a white-blue silvery light - like the moon - but it was 2-3
times bigger than the moon. He immediately looked at the clock
and noticed the time. He looked around the bedroom and saw his
wife and dog sleeping calmly. The witness then felt very dizzy
and went to sleep again. That same night he had another strange
experience. While in a half-awake state in his bed he heard a
strange female voice, which repeated a passage read in an
unknown language (the witness is an interpreter and speaks five
foreign languages fluently). Feeling afraid he covered his head
with a pillow. He immediately checked all the electrical devices
in the room but they were all turned off, except for the icebox.
His wife and dog again slept calmly. The witness also heard the
strange voice the next night.

HC addendum
Source: Robert K Lesniakiewicz, Poland     Type: F?


6.
Location: Capilla del Monte, Cordoba, Argentina
Date: January 14 2004     Time: 2230
A 14-year old boy, Juan Pablo, was standing in his garden when
suddenly he spotted a short humanoid, wearing a red jump suit,
red cap and carrying a staff, walking along the Avenida Las
Gemelas towards a place called "Aguas de los Palos". The lighted
road allowed Juan Pablo to observe as the short figure briskly
walked away and disappeared from sight. The witness became
afraid and ran into his home.

HC addendum
Source: Proyecto CATENT, Argentina     Type: E


7.
Location: Valles de la Silla, Monterrey, Nuevo Leon, Mexico
Date: January 16 2004     Time: 0315A
21-year old police officer Leonardo Samaniego Gallegos was
patrolling a section of Alamo Street when he observed what
appeared to be the figure of a woman totally dressed in a black
cloak-like outfit descend from a nearby tree towards his patrol
car. She appeared to float towards the car at very high speed.
She had large black eyes without any pupils. Terrified he drove
away from the area but was chased by the flying apparition. He
called for assistance over his police radio. The tree the
strange figure descended from was about 6 meters high. The
strange flying creature approached the police car and impacted
onto the front windshield pushing it inward, apparently trying
to get in using what appeared to be large pointy claws at this
point Gallegos lost consciousness. In the videotaped interview
officer Gallegos describes the eyes and black gown as in the
news article but adds the description of a "helmet" or headpiece
it was wearing that curved downward to a point at the back of
the creature's head. Also, a police officer from Santa Catarina,
Jorge Contreras declared that he and two more policemen from the
Regia police saw exactly the same flying being that officer
Samaniego saw, but three days before. They saw it flying and
decided not to say anything - until they heard about Samaniego's
case. Norma Alicia Herrera who lives in Colonia La Playa
declared in a TV interview that she and her brother also saw the
flying humanoid at daytime and that it looked weird. She said
that her brother was so stunned by the sighting that he was sick
for almost a week afterwards. Another neighbor in that sector
also videotaped several days before, a strange flying humanoid
and gave the video to the TV station.

HC addendum
Source: John Velez, Abduction Information Center quoting
Newspaper sources and Santiago Yturria     Type: E


It did not take long for another bizarre entity report to
surface this one from Indiana.


8.
Location: Manchester, Dearborn County, Indiana
Date: January 24 2004     Time: 1930
A 17-year old motorist traveling almost 10 miles north of Aurora
Indiana on Saturday night claims to have encountered an unusual
figure on the road. While driving his black Chevrolet Cavalier
southbound along North Hogan Road a "figure" was spotted in the
headlights of the automobile as it was crouched down near a
puddle of water. From the driver's perspective the figure was
spotted out the windshield on the right of the car. After
passing the frail-looking figure, the driver looked into his
rear view mirror and again observed - illuminated by the
taillights of his car - what he described as a tall, abnormal
figure that moved strangely with pointed joints that "buckled
out". He estimated the figure stood around 6 feet, seven inches.
"It had protruding joints and moved very strangely." The driver
said he was able to ascertain the figure, alleged to be dark
gray or black and "pencil thin" stand up and take several steps
toward the woods along the roadside. The figure definitely
walked on two legs and was thought somehow, to be a male,
although no clothing was noted. No face or eyes could be seen,
but the witness had the impression that the figure was looking
straight at him. The figure was immediately thought to be
something out of the ordinary, not a human being. The duration
of the sighting was "hurried" and possibly within the 3 to 4
second range. The driver continued on for a small distance after
passing the figure and finally put on his brakes, coming to a
stop at an estimated 2 minute walking distance on the road from
the location of the sighting. He looked back to further observe
the entity. At that point, a second car came into view and
approached from the opposite direction, passed and then reached
the spot on the road where the figure was thought to be. The 17-
year old motorist reportedly watched closely and observed the
second car undertake what he thought to be an evasive maneuver
near the vicinity of where he thought the figure would be
situated, then the car turned around at that spot and shortly
pulled up behind him, somewhat in the grass. There was an
elderly couple in the car, both in their late 60s or early 70s
and both with gray hair. The driver, who wore glasses said,
"Boy, did you see something back there? I'll tell you right now,
that was no person." The passenger, an elderly female said, "It
was no human being. It was no man." The elderly couple were
reportedly "spooked" but offered to follow the first witness the
remainder of the trip down North Hogan Road, clearly in the
opposite direction of their intended destination route. It was
thought that the elderly couple observed this same figure on the
opposite side of the road, and possibly had observed it more
closely. Later, the 17-year old witness was said to have become
hysterical, and within an hour was describing the figure as an
"alien".

HC addendum
Source: Kenny Young, Florence Kentucky, UFO Research,
Bob Leibold, Natural Light Productions Cincinnati     Type: E


9.
Location: Leona Vicario, Yucatan, Mexico
Date: January 28 2004     Time: midnight
Maria Luisa Fernandez Morales a residents living in the
outskirts of the city reported that an unknown creature killed
at least 50 of her hens, which she kept in her backyard. The
witness, who sold chickens for a living heard a loud ruckus
coming from the pen and ran out only to confront a very strange
creature similar to a "tiger" but bipedal in nature and emitting
loud grunting sounds. According to the witness the mysterious
creature jumped over a wire fence and ran from the area leaving
a trail of blood behind. It only took several minutes for the
creature to kill the chickens. Also residents from the town of
Texan Palomeque have reported seeing what they describe as a
"wolf-woman", which has also killed and decapitated hundreds of
chickens in area.

HC addendum
Source: Martin Morita, Grupo Reforma, Mexico     Type: E


10.
Location: Texan Palomeque, Yucatan, Mexico
Date: January 29 2004     Time: night
Numerous locals have seen a bizarre creature dubbed the
"wolfwoman" and it is said to be responsible for the slaying of
hundreds of farm birds. Some who has seen it describe it as
about 5 ft.. tall, walking on two legs, hairy and with glowing red
eyes. About 100 people armed with rifles and flashlights
searched the area for the alleged humanoid. Benito Canul a 45-
year old worker living outside the city of Uman said he managed
to fire at the strange being outside his house on the way to the
cemetery, he is unsure if he hit it. "The creature was dog
shaped but with glowing red eyes" Benito said.

HC addendum
Source: Scott Corrales, Gloria Coluchi     Type: E


11.
Location: Chicxulub, Yucatan, Mexico
Date: January 29 2004     Time: late night
Local residents have reported seeing a creature described as
resembling a huge creature with horse-like legs, and covered in
gray colored hair. It is said that from the waist up the
creature resembles a woman and emits a loud chirping sound like
that of a bat. Numerous mutilated dog carcasses have been found
in the area, also that of chickens and cats. 16-year old
Patricia Figueroa Ponce was watching television one night when
she heard loud "chirping" noises coming from the backyard, she
ran to the kitchen after hearing her farm animals shriek in an
agitated manner, and her dogs acted afraid and nervous. She
looked out the window and saw a bizarre creature resembling a
huge dog, but with half of its body human in appearance.
Terrified she yelled for her mother but when both ran outside
the strange creature had disappeared. Some of the local
residents claim that the creature is actually a witch from the
nearby city of Conkal who had been practicing black magic and
had somehow transformed itself.

HC addendum
Source: Alberto Arias Colli, "Diario de Yucatan-Merida"
Mexico February 1 2004     Type: E


12.
Location: Near Joao Pessoa, Paraiba, Brazil
Date: January 31 2004     Time: night
23-year old Alan Flavio was visiting the farm of his
girlfriend's cousin and late one evening he and the cousin were
rounding up some stray cattle in the outer areas of the farm.
Soon they had stopped to rest when Flavio noticed that the
horses were a little restless he looked around and saw movement
in the nearby brush. He caught a quick glimpse of a figure, he
described as "graphite" in color with long thin but strong legs.
It quickly scurried behind some trees and disappeared from
sight. Later that night sometime after midnight as he slept in
the farmhouse he suddenly woke up feeling a strong hand pushing
on his chest. He was paralyzed and could not move or speak. He
then noticed a dark figure, human in shape standing over him. It
seemed to emit a strong influence over the witness, which
totally controlled him. The whole time his girlfriend and cousin
slept in the next room and was not in any way disturbed. Soon
the dark human-shaped figure vanished and he was able to move
again.

HC addendum
Source: UFO Genesis, Brazil     Type: E


13.
Location: Near Romeral, Chile
Date: late January 2004     Time: 0600A
Roberto Ayar Rojas, Maribel Arnaiz Cazaux and their daughter,
Daphane were driving on an isolated road surrounded by woods
when suddenly a bizarre creature appeared on the road ahead on
them. The creature stood on two feet; it was totally covered
with hair, and had bright red eyes. The creature stood bent
forward on two large hind legs similar to a kangaroo. It had two
small "hands" which it moved very rapidly. Once the creature
spotted the witness car it seemed afraid, it suddenly jumped at
incredible speed into the woods. The husband and wife pair had
meanwhile stopped the car and after recovering from the shock it
drove quickly away from the area. They later reported that what
scared them the most was the two large protruding fangs from the
creature's upper mandible. The witnesses felt that the creature
bounded away in an "unnatural" manner. Thankfully their daughter
slept during the encounter. In the nearby town of Buin another
motorist struck a similar creature apparently without hurting it
and hairs possibly belonging to creature were found on the
scene.

HC addendum
Source: Liliana Nunez, Hector Cossio L     Type: E


14.
Location: Piaui, Northeastern Brazil
Date: February 2004     Time: night
A woman accompanied by another family member was washing
clothing in the edge of a river when they noticed movement
amongst the thick foliage across from their Location: They were
then stunned to see two strange hairy humanoids about 1.50m in
height come out of the woods. The humanoids had long dangling
arms and were covered from head to two by thick black hair. Both
had red glowing eyes. Terrified both witnesses fled the area.

HC addendum
Source: UFO Genesis, Brazil     Type: E


15.
Location: Lake Downy Park near Orlando, Florida
Date: February 6 2004     Time: 2045
The witness was cat fishing in a lake just east of downtown
Orlando when he had the feeling that something was watching him
for about 5 minutes. He kept looking around but saw nothing. It
was very dark but there was some moonlight present. He heard
footsteps in the marsh on the side of the lake near the dock he
was fishing from and then he saw and heard a ripple of water
near the shore. Then he saw two stork-like legs and a head
watching him. It looked right at him, feeling very scared the
witness yelled out. The figure then stood up, like a man the
witness size or so and stared him dead in the eyes. He went to
run off the dock but when he did so, the figure walked at a slow
pace toward the end of the dock apparently in an effort to cut
him off. He dialed 911 (apparently on his cell phone) and they
told him to stay put that the police were on the way. The
creature or figure apparently then disappeared. He is convinced
that what he saw was not human and not a native animal.

HC addendum
Source: Peter Davenport UFO Center     Type: E


16.
Location: Jordanow, Poland
Date: February 13 2004     Time: 0100A
77-year old Mrs. K J woke up late at night and went to the
lavatory and back to her bedroom, as she passed through the
kitchen she was surprised to see a strong flame-orange light,
which floated in the sky. She quickly realized that it couldn't
be the moon. The light had the shape of a hemisphere, the upper
part was rounded and its bottom was flat. The light was 2-3
times bigger than the full moon. The witness states that the
light hung above the forest over Hajdowka hill, which was 1.5 km
from her house. She watched for about 5 minutes and felt dizzy
and then she went to bed. During the night she had a disturbing
"dream" about a strange meeting with a huge shiny "thing". She
awoke feeling very frightened around 0630A.

HC addendum
Source: Robert K Lesniakiewicz, Poland     Type: F?


17.
Location: Elkader, Iowa
Date: February 15 2004     Time: 2300
The witness was returning to her house after finishing a late
night farm chore when something caught her eye as she almost
reached her door. To her left she saw a "thing" running very
fast about 30 yards away from her, not comprehending what she
was seeing, she could only describe the entity as looking like a
"stick man." It seemed to turn its head over his left shoulder
and look straight at her, and then it took off in a sprint
towards her front door. Very upset the witness ran inside and
locked all the doors. It took her 2 hours to calm down; she
began to sob so hard that she started to hyperventilate. She
never told anyone, including her family about what she had seen.
She felt that the "thing" wanted her to see it, for some unknown
reason.

HC addendum
Source: NUFORC     Type: E
Comments: I cannot help but notice the similarity in
descriptions of the entities with this case and the January 24
Indiana case.


18.
Location: Santa Teresita, Saenz Pena, Chaco, Argentina
Date: February 21 2004     Time: late night
26-year old Liliana Nievas was sitting in her patio with her
boyfriend when suddenly several "cascotazos" (a sort of rock or
brick abundant in the area) fell on the two apparently coming
from an area behind the patio. Liliana went alone to investigate
when she came upon a short dark "man", which began to pummel her
and attempted to drag her away. She could only describe the
entity as short, dark and shadowy, which covered her mouth and
began to drag her on the ground. Hearing her screams, several
neighbors, family members, and her boyfriend ran to find the
woman lying on the ground suffering facial injuries. She kept
screaming that "he is trying to drag me away" as the astounded
group watched as a mysterious force indeed seemed to pull her
away, however they did not see anybody. Finally with the help of
her boyfriend and others they managed to hold Liliana down and
the force seemed to release her. She was taken to a local
hospital suffering from grievous injuries. Others in the area
reported being pelted by bricks and another witness reported
seeing a shadowy entity stealing fruit from his backyard.

HC addendum
Source: Planeta UFO Groups, quoting "Norte Edicion Digital"
Sunday February 22 2004, Chaco, Argentina     Type: E


19.
Location: Hampshire, England
Date: February 21 2004     Time: 2300
Emily Parkinson was lying in bed when a bright white light
suddenly was reflected in her mirror. Instantly she sat up
terrified and went to the window to see whether it was her
husband coming home. She then saw a figure of approximately 6 ft.
in height standing on her lawn. It seemed to have huge eye on
its stomach (?) resembling huge black circles that seemed to
pierce the witness head with an incredibly high-pitched sound.
She was fixed to the spot with terror, as the strange creature
seemed to slowly dissolve from view.

HC addendum
Source: I Was abducted.com, UFO Reports     Type: E
Comments: I wonder if any additional details on the humanoid are
available, it could have been a Mothman type creature.


20.
Location: Boca de Chila, Nayarit, Mexico
Date: February 26 2004     Time: 0130A
Several local inhabitants reported hearing a very loud booming
noise over the area and what appeared to be a metallic object
falling into the beach area. For a while they did not approach
the supposed crash site because of fear. However others reported
that the object was huge and disc-shaped, apparently metallic,
without windows or wings. Soon after the "crash" members of the
Mexican Territorial Army cordoned off the area and warned local
inhabitants not to approach the area. Others have reported
seeing similar disc-shaped craft flying at a high altitude over
the area.

HC addendum
Source: Ovnis Mexico     Forums     Type: H?
Comments: It is necessary to obtain additional information on
this intriguing case; so far none is available yet.


21.
Location: Chann Kalan, Pakistan
Date: February 26 2004     Time: evening
Constable Jagdish Parishad who on Thursday was keeping vigil on
the international border had seen a flying object like a hot
balloon carrying three persons who disembarked after landing in
Pakistani territory. Since the constable had never seen a para-
glider, fan glider or even a hot air balloon during his service
tenure, it is difficult to ascertain the authenticity of the
matter. Just prior to the UFO sighting Pakistani troops backed
by helicopter gun ships and artillery detained 20 people in raids
against suspected Al-Qaeda hideouts in a tribal region bordering
Afghanistan.

HC addendum
Source: UFO Roundup Vol. 9 # 9     Type: B?


22.
Location: Monte Maiz, La Pampa, Argentina
Date: March 2004     Time: various
A silhouette of a man who walks on rooftops, drags heavy chains
and makes strange noises turned into a disquieting "phantom"
that has made residents of Monte Maiz restless. Opinions on the
"phantom" are diametrically opposed, since some claim having see
"a figure standing over 2 meters tall, dressed in black and with
spectacular agility" while others say its all imagination. The
local residents call it "the phantom". Those who have seen it
say that it is a young person, very tall and slim, with red eye.
It dresses in white, sometimes black and others gray. Always
wear a hat and covers its face with a mask or hood. The sounds
on the rooftops begin after 2100 hours, as do the calls to the
police. Residents claim that it walks on the roof, shuffles and
runs, drags chains, scratches at windows and bangs at doors. It
doesn't speak or yell - it has only been heard to laugh in the
dark or whistle, some claim having heard it imitate the howling
of a dog. Locals say that it runs swiftly and jumps over barbed
wire fencing and walls without touching them, according to
concerned neighbors. Some eyewitness accounts follow:

Ivana Molina had gone out to her yard and saw a man dancing,
whistling and slapping his hands. The neighbors heard similar
noises. The next day, she went out and the same man tried to
grab her. She ran into the house and phoned the police. It then
banged on her bathroom window and wrote "mueres" (you'll die)
with its finger. Oscar Gonzalez reported standing in the yard
when he saw a shadow walking along. He could see its red eyes.
He then went out with another fellow to find it and the
"phantom" jumped the neighbor's yard. It was dressed in white.
The following day it whistled at the men again. They went out to
chase it and it vanished. Veronica Bertrando reported that her
husband saw it as it crossed the patio; he said it was dressed
in gray with a hood over its head. When it went by the dog
barked, her husband then went outside and it took off running.
He searched for it but could not find it. Local police offered
the following additional details on the stranger (or
strangers?), 1.8 to 1.9 meters tall, dresses in black, a white
face (possibly a mask) wears a black hat, its movements are
generally silent and possesses extreme agility, it jumps over
fences, walls and climbs up trees with ease. It normally appears
between 2130 to 0300 hours.

HC addendum
Source: Scott Corrales, Institute Of Hispanic Ufology, Christian
Quintero, Planeta UFO.     Type: E
Comments: This case bears a strong resemblance to the
visitations or encounters reported in Vegas Coria Spain in 1983-
1984 and in Provincetown Massachusetts 1944-1945.


23.
Location: Johannesburg, South Africa
Date: March 2 2004     Time: 1900
A sort of "inner voice" told the witness to get his camera and
go outside. He waited for about 5 minutes then a bright white
light shone on his eyes and then he saw three disc-shaped craft
surrounding a large cigar-shaped object maneuvering overhead.
The discs kept circling around the cigar. He took three
photographs then he was again illuminated by a bright white
light and suddenly found himself on his bed the next morning. He
suffered from nosebleeds after the incident and had strange
lucid "dreams" of seeing a little "black man" who enters his
bedroom and tells him that they are taking him. He remembers
running and then being shot in the arm by a laser-like light. He
woke up the next morning shivering and with his arm sore.

HC addendum
Source: NUFORC     Type: D or E?


24.
Location: Wolverhampton, West Midlands, England
Date: March 8 2004     Time: 2130
Steven Nicklin and a friend were walking across Northicote Farm
near an old Tudor farmhouse when both men saw a humanoid grayish
figure with a human-type head standing on a tree, which formed
part of the many trees that bordered the farm, these were tall
pine trees, and the figure stood on the top branches. They
estimated the size of the figure as being about 2.1 meters in
height. It had two legs and two arms connected to membrane-type
wings. Its clawed hands seemed connected to the wings, somehow
resembling a pterosaur. It moved its head and looked directly at
the witnesses, since the moon was full and there was a
streetlight not farm away. It turned its head from the witnesses
and then took one giant leap and glided to the next tree. The
tree bent under the creature's weight as it took the impact. It
then turned its head to look at them once more. Its gaze felt
that "it could look into their very being (soul)". Both men felt
quite scared and both fled the area quickly. The men said that
it was a creature they had never seen before nor wanted to see
again.

HC addendum
Source: UFO Roundup March 16 2004     Type: E
Comments: Another flying humanoid report, this entity somehow
resembled the gargoyle of the Middle Ages.


25.
Location: Near Carlsbad California
Date: March 9 2004     Time: 0320A
The witness was on his paper route and was driving at about 25-
30 mph when he saw a real bright light in the sky about the size
of the moon. He pulled up to the side to catch a better glimpse
of the object. About 1 minute passed when all of the sudden it
disappeared. Then after 10 seconds of dead silence a round
bright object landed right in front of the witness. It was
circular and glowed very brightly. It was probably about 25 ft.
in height and about 100 ft. in diameter. Stunned the witness
heard a voice as if someone was talking to him gently in his
ear. He looked around and did not see anybody. All of the sudden
the craft didn't glow anymore and on the side of the craft it
said, "future". The voice then said, "nobody else can see this
but you, we are from the future, you are a representative now of
the future for this mass (sic), please lead or there will be
dire consequences." The voice talked very slowly and clearly in
perfect English. He still couldn't see anybody but after the
voice stopped talking he shouted, "who the hell are you"! And
then everything disappeared. After about 10 minutes of
reflecting on what had occurred, the witness drove home.

HC addendum
Source: NUFORC     Type: F


26.
Location: Jordanow, Poland
Date: March 11 2004     Time: 2330
44-year old Miss Wiktoria Lesniakiewicz was in her bedroom when
she suddenly noticed her cat, which had died several days ago.
She followed the animal. The cat walked out of the bedroom
through the closed door, but feeling very tired Wiktoria went to
sleep. That same night she had a strange "dream" about her cat.
She woke up feeling the cat's hot body on her legs. At the same
time she sensed and heard strange voices and music. Three
separate voices were discussing something, speaking in a strange
language. The music resembled classical music, very similar to
the Mozart symphonies, but it was definitely not a Mozart
composition. Afraid, Wiktoria turned the lamp on. The voices and
the music then slowly faded away. She was unable to sleep the
rest of the night.

HC addendum
Source: Robert Lesniakiewicz, Poland     Type: F?


27.
Location: Sault Sainte Marie, Ontario, Canada
Date: March 12 2004     Time: 0400A
The witness, M N, was driving eastward on Wellington Street on
the southeastern end of Lake Superior and as he came to the
central part of the city (known to locals of the Lake Superior
region as Soo, Canada). He noticed a straight beam of light
hovering in the early morning sky, from the top of the hill that
was on his northern side. His vehicle came to a complete stop at
a cross street and he looked all the way down to the end of the
street (about 7 blocks away) because the street ended at the
base of the hill and has a metal stairwell leading to McDonald
Avenue. Although being 7 blocks away his eyes were able to focus
on a little dark figure that was standing very still. This
caught his curiosity as he slowly drove towards it, and then
started moving from side to side using fluid movements as if it
was hovering in mid-air. It moved as if it was confused, or
afraid and didn't know what to do. As he got closer, the
figure's appearance seemed to have metamorphosed into a
transparent, shadow like entity that very swiftly flew up the
stairs. To his astonishment, the beam of light that he had seen
in the sky a few minutes before and a couple of miles away was
now at the top of the hill, only about 100 ft. away. With his
heart racing, he drove as fast as he could eastward along the
base of the hill until he came to the nearest hill street and
drove up McDonald Avenue to see what was happening. In a matter
of seconds, traveling from the bottom to the top of the hill, he
arrived at the top of the steps only to find three circle-shaped
burn markings on the pavement of the street. Approximately 10
seconds later he heard a very weird kind of gunshot sound,
looked up to the sky and saw a bright light shooting up into the
stars. As he watched the spectacle a surreal kind of peaceful
feeling came upon him and he felt as if every hair on his body
was standing on end. The feeling only lasted for what felt like
30 seconds, but when he looked at his watch it was a good 40
minutes later.

HC addendum
Source: UFO Roundup Vol. 9 # 13     Type: C


28.
Location: San Juan de San Ramon, Ajuela Province, Costa Rica
Date: March 18 2004     Time: late night
Late at night Gonzalo Rodriguez heard strange noises and a
ruckus coming from the henhouse on his property - a commotion
that was far from being normal. He decided to send his son to
check with a flashlight to make sure thieves weren't at work.
The youth obeyed his father and flashlight in hand approached
the large henhouse stealthily, becoming terrified upon seeing a
strange black animal, standing some 40cm, tall and resembling a
small dog with a long tail and standing on two legs. He recalls,
among what little he was able to see through the flashlight's
beam, that the animal had a very long tongue. Upon seeing the
light, the creature fled into the vegetation, skillfully leaping
over a wall. An inspection of the henhouse revealed that 20 hens
had been slain. Police authorities of the nearby town of San
Ramon were notified and officer Marcos Hernandez reported to the
scene to corroborate not only Gonzalo Rodriguez's account, but
also the testimony of frightened neighbors. The birds were whole
and the only sign of damage to them were the two small orifices
on their backs, through which it is presumed that the strange
assailant drove its fangs to remove or suck the blood. Several
days before several dead sheep had been found with the same
characteristics; twin puncture marks on their necks or back and
not a single drop of blood.

HC addendum
Source: Scott Corrales, INEXPLICATA, The Journal of Hispanic Ufology,
Gloria Coluchi     Type: E


29.
Location: Hamilton, New Zealand
Date: March 23 2004     Time: 0200A
Jason McIntosh and two friends were had stopped at the end of a
road to watch a light in the sky when one of the girls pointed
out some orange lights moving in a field. To their left in a
fenced yard they saw an image of two people in white "dancing".
About 20 minutes later the car was filled with green glowing
lights moving around at high speed. They could feel massive
charges of static electricity and one of the girls got out and
wanted to see the aliens. She came back to the car saying that
she had seen strange little men. At the same time the others
felt sensations of a craft flying slowly overhead and felt
down drafts of air. Then they saw a bright white light above the
house in the field and occasionally smaller lights shooting into
it from the sky. They could also see a group of figures in white
standing in front of a house. One of the girls and Jason walked
up the path to investigate and they stood 15 ft. from them and
Jason waved at one and it waved back. Suddenly they had an
overwhelming sense of danger and went back to the car. Soon they
could see gray colored creatures, 4 ft. tall leaning in the
passenger window. They then drove to the end of a driveway then
drove back to the front. They could see that from where the
strangers in white were standing what appeared to be large black
charges of electricity were being pushed up towards the white
light in the sky. Then a big black fog came in and left. The
creatures were gone but the little green lights stayed in the
car for 2 or 3 hours afterwards.

HC addendum
Source: I Was abducted.com, UFO Reports     Type: C?



30.
Location: Newport Tennessee
Date: April 5 2004     Time: 1100A
The witness spotted a bizarre flying creature somewhat
resembling an arrowhead flying backwards, with what looked to a
head or knob on the front. It didn't look mechanical; it was
more like some type of animal. It did not have extended wings
like a bird of any kind, but seemed to have some sort of stubby
wings, which were part of the body, like a flying squirrel or
some type of bat. They protruded out near the end & tapered back
to a point at the rear. The creature appeared to be around 3 ft.
from to tail & a little over 2 ft. wide at the shoulders. It was
moving very fast in a straight line at an altitude of
approximate 150 ft.. The witness did not see a method of
propulsion such as wing movement. It just seemed to be gliding,
but at a high rate of speed. It maintained level flight moving
west where the witness eventually lost sight of it. Other
details were a light brown color along the sides of the wings,
like skin, with a dark body color, possibly dark brown or black.

HC addendum
Source: NUFORC     Type: E


31.
Location: Victorias City, Philippines
Date: April 7 2004     Time: 2100
A witness spotted a very bright disc-shaped object that descends
low over his Location: He heard a low hum and also what
resembled the sound of several "people" all talking at the same
time in an unintelligible jargon. The object emitted blue, red,
violet and orange flashes of light. After 15 minutes the object
left the area.

HC addendum
Source: NUFORC     Type: E


32.
Location: Justo Daract, San Luis Argentina
Date: April 5-10 2004     Time: night
An 11-year old boy was walking on a darkened street on the
corner of Liniers and Los Andes when he felt someone touch him
on the back, upon turning around he saw something that terrified
him and immediately ran home screaming. Local neighbors and
police officers searched the area but failed to find anything.
According to the information available, the boy saw a strange
inhuman creature that was standing on four legs and that moved
in strange jumps at very high speed. Several other men saw the
strange creature climb the roof of the local railroad station.
There were other reports that police had corner a strange figure
dressed in black but it had literally slipped away from their
grasp and disappeared into the darkness. Others reported seeing
something totally different "a very tall man dressed in black
and cape" who wore some type of mask and gloves equipped with
sharp metallic nails. He was originally seen by several young
girls that described him as tall, dressed in black, masked and
with long silvery metallic nails, that climbed the top of the
Plaza Pringles with great agility, the girls ran from the area
in a panic. Others saw the strange character vault over the
tennis court fence while some other women saw the same or
similar figure climbing some trees at very high speed. To add to
the bizarre situation that same night residents in the Ilusion &
Libertario Ferrari section reported seeing the tall black garbed
stranger frolicking on a local football pitch, it seemed make
huge jumps with surprising agility at times seemingly floating
in mid-air. To add to the mystery that very same night other
residents in the Jardin Ferroviario section reported seeing a
diminutive figure running through the area. Others reported
seeing a simian-type creature about 1.20 meters in height moving
about in great leaps and bounds. Still, another young girl
riding her bicycle home late at night saw a tall black-garbed
figure jumping from roof to roof in the 331 Viviendas section of





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   Apr > Apr 20

                Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers -

From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais.nul>
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:18:17 +0200
Fwd Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:41:28 -0400
Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers -


>From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 09:01:59 -0700
>Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers

>>From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 18:06:00 +0200
>>Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers

<snip>

>>Now, about the story of the cameraman, I don't believe one word
>>of it. And that extends to the "revelation" of the Socorro crash
>>site.

>But what has led you to this conclusion? I believed the
>cameraman, and his directions led me to an old lake bed, at the
>end of a canyon, where the earth and vegetation had been
>subjected to a scorching heat of some kind and the rocks and
>dirt and sand an outcroppings were covered with a strange blue,
>glass-like material.


To Ed and All

I already explained on this List why, like almost everybody,
I suspect the story to be false. Why do you ask again ?


Gildas







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   Apr > Apr 20

                Re: Steve Bassett For President #5 - Lehmberg

From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul>
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 07:51:24 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 19:34:48 -0400
Subject: Re: Steve Bassett For President #5 - Lehmberg


>From: Trevor Page <webmaster.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 18:11:37 -0400
>Subject: Re: Steve Bassett For President #5

>>From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 07:32:50 -0500
>>Subject: Steve Bassett For President #5

<snip>

>>Just go to this site "Showtime" internet site:

>>http://www.americancandidate.com/candidate_homepage.php?id1

>>...and push Steve's "support me" button to the right of his
>>portrait. That's all... The 12 with the most votes will be
>>chosen, soon, for 10 weeks of the show and then Steve is on his
>>own for the show-run, but for us providing our weekly support
>>via the internet to keep him on the ticket for as long as we
>>can! You don't have to be an American to make your support
>>count, so this is a good chance for the whole world to weigh in
>>on what they consider important and have the subjects of
>>exopolitics and UFOs injected 'deeply' into the national
>>(world?) consciousness.

><snip>

>Mr. Bassett is currently sitting @ 12th place in the top 100
>supported. Please go and vote for him, its our chance to get
>some "air time" on the issue.

>BTW, this might be a little unethical but since this is a "mock"
>election and TV show I don't have a problem conveying that you
>can artificially "push" the votes by deleting the site cookie
>from your browser. This way you can vote multiple times. A more
>adept programmer could write something that could do this
>automatically :)

>Have fun!

Foul!!! No! Do Not do this, anyone, please! I wondered how some
of the other candidates were getting their votes and this may
explain it. This is just the kind of thing that is detestable in
the actuality; its a shame that it has to enter here, too. The
lack of ethics is plain, so do what you can to refrain. I regret
you bringing it up, Mr. Page. Be that as it may... Vote Steve!

http://www.americancandidate.com/candidate_homepage.php?id1

alienview.nul

EXPLORE "AlienViewGroup" at its HostPros URL.
http://www.alienview.net


JOHN FORD RESTORATION FUND -- John will be released eventually.
He'll need a tax free cash stake to get on his feet. Let's put
one together for him; the bigger it is -- the more attention
he gets. It could have been you. E-mail for detail.
$450.00 pledged -- $300.00 collected!

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite.
What others see from afar, I leave far behind me."
- Giordano Bruno, scourged by the scabrously specious scurrilous.







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   Apr > Apr 20

             Re: Effect Of Childhood Abductions On The Adult? -

From: Nick Pope <nick.nul>
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 14:05:32 +0100
Fwd Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 19:35:49 -0400
Subject: Re: Effect Of Childhood Abductions On The Adult? -


>From: Luis R. Gonzalez <lrgm.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 09:39:32 +0200
>Subject: Effect Of Childhood Abductions On The Adult?

>I have discovered that at the UFO convention in Laughlin, Nevada
>between March 3-9, 2002 Budd Hopkins spoke about "The Effect Of
>Childhood Abductions On The Adult Years".

>I am very interested in that paper. Can anybody tell me how to
>obtain it?

I suggest that you email Budd's Intruders Foundation (IF). Budd
addressed some of these issues in a conference held on May 6
2000. I took notes on this conference, which formed the basis of
the review at the following link:

http://www.intrudersfoundation.org/abduction_conference.html

The email contact details for IF are also visible in the above link.

Budd's article "Helping Children Deal With UFO Abduction
Experiences" (IF Bulletin Volume 2, Number 1) may also be useful
to you in your research. I don't think it's available online,
but you can order it through the IF website.


Best wishes,

Nick Pope







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             Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers - Kaeser

From: Steven Kaeser <steve.nul>
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 09:17:22 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 19:38:06 -0400
Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers - Kaeser


>From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:18:17 +0200
>Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers

>>From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 09:01:59 -0700
>>Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers

>>But what has led you to this conclusion? I believed the
>>cameraman, and his directions led me to an old lake bed, at the
>>end of a canyon, where the earth and vegetation had been
>>subjected to a scorching heat of some kind and the rocks and
>>dirt and sand an outcroppings were covered with a strange blue,
>>glass-like material.

>I already explained on this List why, like almost everybody,
>I suspect the story to be false. Why do you ask again ?

Ed, and all,

The area west of Socorro, NM, which is the region described in
the "Cameraman's" statement, contains numerous dry lake beds.
There are also numerous dirt and gravel roads leading up various
ravines, as this was an area that was heavily mined during the
19th and early 20th Centuries.

Bob Shell believes that he has probably identified the "crash
site" described, but it's not the same location you've
identified, and I don't think the geologic anomaly you've
identified is all that important. Bob also believes there's
nothing more to learn about the AA "film" unless Ray Santilli
finally opens up, and I tend to agree.

But I'm prompted to write because of the continued reference to
the "Cameraman's" directions and earlier references to his
"drawing" of the crash site.

I'm sure I'll be corrected if I'm in error, but to my knowledge
the "cameraman" has provided no written material in his own
hand. The description of the site was written by Ray Santilli,
as he alleges the "cameraman" described it. The map was created
by an artist, who listened to the description by the "cameraman"
by telephone. He never saw the actual map that was drawn, to my
knowledge, and researchers at the time realized how limited in
value it was.


Steve







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                       UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 9 Number 16

From: John Hayes <webmaster.nul>
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 14:49:49 +0100
Fwd Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 19:40:55 -0400
Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 9 Number 16


Posted on behalf of Joseph Trainor.

<Masinaigan.nul>
==========================

   UFO ROUNDUP
Volume 9, Number 16
April 21, 2004
Editor: Joseph Trainor

E-mail: Masinaigan.nul
Website: http://www.ufoinfo.com/roundup/


UFO SIGHTED BY MANY IN
ROCHESTER, INDIANA

   "Reports of a UFO in rural Rochester, Indiana
(population 6,414) last week are intriguing enough that an
investigation could be launched by the Mutual UFO Network
(MUFON)."
   "Roger Sudgen, MUFON assistant director for the
northern part of Indiana, said Monday," April 12, 2004,
"he'll be calling several residents who saw a disk-shaped
object in the sky last Thursday night," April 8, 2004,
"around 10 p.m."
   "Bev Carpenter, who lives on County Road 450 North,
in rural Rochester, said she and her 13-year-old
granddaughter, Shannay Carpenter of Valparaiso, Ind.
(population 27,428), had just pulled into the driveway of
her home that night when her experience began."
   "'I'm a line-dance instructor,' Carpenter began, 'and
I'd just picked up my granddaughter, we'd gone out to
supper, and I'd taught the class, so we were pulling into
the driveway around 10 p.m., the usual time. Shannay
said, 'Grandma, what's that!?'"
   "'I'd been getting my stuff out, so I turned around
and said, 'Oh, my God! That's a UFO!'"
   "The unidentified flying object, Carpenter said, was
ahead of them on the northwest side of her home."
   "'There were lights sort of aiming downward,'
Carpenter said, further saying that the lights were not
aimed towards the ground, nor straight out from whatever
was holding them in the air."
   "'You could just barely see the outline of the
craft,' she said, 'There was no color, no sound, and it
hovered just above the tops of the trees.'"
   "Carpenter said the lights--three in a row, side by
side, and another three in a row, side by side, separated
by nothing Carpenter could see--stayed bright for about 20
seconds before they went out. A few seconds later, they
came on again."
   "'Then the craft started slowly, and I mean slowly,
moving in a northeast direction,' she said. The house was
then blocking both their views, and they ran across the
north side of the house to see where the object went when
it moved northeastward."
   "'It was gone. We couldn't see anything, or the
lights were out. We couldn't tell,' Carpenter said,
adding that the lights never came back on."
   "She said the entire event took place in less than a
minute, but when the pair could no longer see what was up
there, 'we bee-lined it into the house, locked the doors
and called the sheriff.'"
   "Sgt. Ed Beaird of the Fulton County Sheriff's
Department was dispatched to Carpenter's house, where a
written report was completed. A spokesman for the
Sheriff's Department said on Monday that several calls
were received by (police) dispatchers Thursday night but
no number was available. Beaird was not available for
comment on Monday, but the spokesman said the Carpenter
residence was the only location to which an officer was
dispatched concerning the UFO."
   "Carpenter, a 22-year worker at Hart, Schaffner and
Marx, and union steward before the plant closed, said
she'd never experienced anything even remotely close to a
UFO sighting before, but she knew enough from seeing
various television shows that she should contact the
National UFO Reporting Center in Seattle."
   "She spoke with Peter Davenport, director of NUFORC,
who took down her information, but when she tried to email
that information to him, her computer showed the message:
Difficulties--try at a later time."
   "Carpenter said the lights dimmed four times during
this period, as well. She waited until Friday morning,"
April 9, 2004, "to send the information."
   "'Until we have a butterfly net and can actually snag
one of these, they'll remain UFOs,' Davenport said in a
phone interview Monday."
   "Carpenter also called Rochester's WROI radio station
to report the sighting. Baron Imhoof, news director at
the station, said he received up to ten calls when
Carpenter went on the air live Friday morning to share her
experience. Others, too, had seen the strange lights in
the sky."
   "Gene Winters and his wife, who live halfway between
Mexico and Denver in (nearby) Miami County, Ind., had no
idea that neighbors to the north were experiencing when he
saw a large craft hover over the pond behind his house
around 10 p.m. Thursday night. He knew it was that time,
he said, because a television show had just ended, and it
was time to take the dog outside."
   "That task was delayed as the Winters couple saw,
first from the patio door on the right side of the living
room in their house 'what looked like two rows of lights,
like two planes flying together,' Winters said his wife
described it."
   "Then they saw the object out of the patio door on
the left side of the room, indicating it was closer and
lower to the horizon, he said."
   "'We were both looking out, and there were six to
eight lights in a row on this very, very large object,'
Winters said, 'Living north of Grissom Air Force Base, I
thought it was one of their big jets...but there were two
things wrong with that picture. It was very low in the
sky, and it wasn't moving. And it was hovering over the
top of our pond.'"
   "Winters said the lights didn't light up any other
objects in his viewing area, and they appeared to be about
35 to 50 feet (10.7 to 15 meters) in the air above the
pond's surface."
   "Winters called Carpenter after reading her story in
a local newspaper."
   "Carpenter said she's been receiving calls from
residents in Winnemac and Kewanna," respectively 18 and 10
miles (30 and 16 kilometers) west of Rochester, "after
Thursday's baffling sighting in the sky. She's prepared a
map for investigators, she said."
   "Mutual UFO Network's Sudgen said he will complete
interviews with Carpenter, Winters and others before a
decision is made to physically make a trip to the area."
   Rochester is on Highway 14 approximately 57 miles (91
kilometers) west of Fort Wayne, Indiana. (See the South
Bend, Ind. Tribune for April 13, 2004, "UFO sighting may
prompt investigation." Many thanks to Jim Hickman for
this newspaper article. And be sure to visit Jim's Web
site at http://www.thehickman report.com.)


UFO FLOTILLA SIGHTED
OVER HIXSON, TENNESSEE
 On Saturday, April 10, 2004, at 2:45 a.m., Timothy
Anderson reported, "As we were driving home, we topped a
small hill" in Hixson, Tennessee, "and there were at least
seven objects glowing orange in the western sky. They
were in a formation like five on a dice, with two flying
in front. (See below--J.T.)


             *  *

             *  *

              *

             *  *

   "They appeared to be stars at first, and then I
noticed them moving to the west, and they all began to
come into view. They glowed orange and made no noise."
   "Based upon the rate they moved out of my sight, I
would say that they were 2,000 to 3,000 feet (660 to 990
meters) in altitude. It was a curious sight. I lived
next to a U.S. Air Force base in north Georgia for two
years and have seen many night flyovers with afterburners.
This was definitely not that." (Many thanks to Brian Vike
for this report.)


PINK-AND-GREEN UFO SEEN
IN INDEPENDENCE, MISSOURI

   On Monday, March 22, 2004, at 10 p.m., Gloria Curtis
was a passenger in a car traveling east on Interstate
Highway I-70 near Independence, Missouri (population
113,288) when she noticed something odd "over a wooded
residential area north of the highway."
   "It happened so fast I was the only witness in the
automobile to see it," Gloria reported, "We were driving
east on Highway I-70 in Missouri when I saw the streak of
light coming down. And when it stopped or crashed to the
ground, it looked like it exploded into neon green and a
bright pink color. Through the trees the streak of light
was falling fast, very fast. At first it was a streak of
light like a falling star, which I thought that's what it
was. Then, when it got lower, it exploded into neon and a
bright pink-colored mushroom as we passed the location."
(Email Form Report)


SIX UFOs SPOTTED OVER
WICKFORD, ESSEX, UK

   On Sunday, April 11, 2004, at 8:30 p.m., eyewitness
W.A. reported, "Six lights appeared" over Wickford, Essex,
UK "coming up over the horizon from the west, in a chain
formation, and headed east but not at a great speed. They
appeared to stop over the top of us."
   "And then, one at a time, each went upwards until
they looked like stars, and formed a circle. You would
have thought they were helicopters hovering; they were
bright orange, ball-shaped. Very slow speed. I would say
they were flying at a height (altitude) of 30,000 feet
(9,000 meters)." (Email Form Report)


THREE UFOs SIGHTED OVER
TYNDALL PARK, MANITOBA

   On Saturday, April 17, 2004, at 2 a.m., eyewitness
Nicholas M. was standing on his deck in Tyndall Park,
Manitoba, Canada, just north of Winnipeg, when he spotted
something unusual in the southeastern sky.
   "I was standing on my deck, looking at the stars as I
usually do when there are no clouds. I live a few miles
from the Winnipeg airport," he reported, "Anyway, there
was no wind, and I was looking at Venus, which was to the
west, when all of a sudden, there were three dim lights
hovering over my neighbor's house, then over the park, and
slowly started getting smaller and smaller. Then they
were gone--just like that."
   "The lights were about three to four feet apart. But
they looked like they were all attached, like on the same
thing or on the bottom of an object or whatever. I
couldn't see around the lights because it was like trying
to look past a flashlight (torch in UK and Australia--
J.T.) Anyway, it took off faster than my eyes could
focus. I couldn't believe it."
   "Ten minutes later, I was waiting for the lights to
come back. I could see them again but faintly and beyond
the airplanes in the sky. The lights departed to the
northwest. I've never seen anything like it." (Email
Form Report)


UFOs WITH FLASHING LIGHTS
SEEN IN NORTHERN IRAN

   "Residents of northern Iran have reported 'a string
of unidentified flying objects' moving at low altitude and
emitting different colours, the (Iranian) state news
agency IRNA reported today," Thursday, April 15, 2004.
   "Saina Haghkish, a resident of the northeastern city
of Tabriz, was quoted as saying she 'saw one object
flashing red, green and blue and moving slowly from west
to east yesterday,'" Wednesday, April 14, 2004.
   "Identical sightings were also reported on Monday,
Tuesday and Wednesday over the northeastern town of
Ghonbad-Kavous, situated on the southeastern edge of the
Caspian Sea."
   "However, astronomy professor Ajab Shirizadeh told
IRNA that while the presence over the Islamic republic of
extra-planetary craft could not be ruled out, the sighting
could also be attributed to spy or communication
satellites."
   "UFOs were also seen in Mahmudabad and Babol Sar, on
the southern shore of the Caspian," reported Ayesha al-
Khatabi, UFO Roundup's Middle East correspondent.
"According to Kufa Yildaz, my source in Iran, these
sightings, combined with the daylight UFO seen last year
(2003) in Chalus, has stirred souq (market) gossip about
an alien underwater base on the floor of the Caspian Sea."
(See the Arabic newspaper Al-Ahram for April 15, 2004,
"UFOs sighted over Iran." Many thanks to Ayesha al-
Khatabi for this newspaper report.)


FIRE POLTERGEISTS RESUME
RAMPAGE IN SICILY

   "A series of mysterious spontaneous fires some blame
on demons has flared up again in a small Sicilian
village."
   "The 39 residents of Canneto di Caronia were
evacuated from the coastal town in January (2004) after
regional authorities declared an emergency. The fires
have broken out in the residents' furniture and electrical
devices, everything from refrigerators and televisions to
washing machines and cell phones."
   "Electricity to the village had been cut off but,
after a brief respite last month (March 2004), the almost
daily fires are back."
   "Scientists, researchers and 'ghostbusters' have
searched far and wide for clues, but Mayor Pedro Spinnato
says, 'We're working in the dark. We don't have a single
lead so far.'"
   "Spinnato added, 'Every time some new scientist comes
to town, they arrive thinking the whole thing has been
invented or that they're going to solve the mystery in two
minutes. They've all been wrong.'"
   "Residents decided with the local (Roman Catholic)
priest, Father Antonio Cipriani, to allow the scientists
to examine the fires, but a Catholic exorcist, Gabriele
Amorth, told the Italian newspaper Il Messagero, 'I've
seen things like this before. Demons occupy a house and
appear in electrical goods. Let's not forget that Satan
and his followers have immense powers.'"
   "In cases of demonic behavior, the Vatican expert
said, 'It is normal for domestic appliances to be involved
and for demons to make their presence known in
electricity.'"
   Massimo Polidoro, "the head of the Committee for
Control of the Paranormal has ruled out demons or
poltergeists for the time being."
   "'The fact that the phenomenon occurs only when there
are people present makes it hard to believe that it is a
natural, or even supernatural, phenomenon,' Polidoro said,
'But we don't exclude further investigation if things
aren't eventually explained.'"
   "Mayor Spinnato is sounding desperate for an answer.
'Someone wrote to me saying the solution was to sacrifice
a black goat and collect its blood,' he said, 'At some
point, that's going to start looking like a good idea.'"
   In its June 2004 issue, the magazine Fortean Times
pointed out an interesting fact about the village of
Canneto di Caronia.
   "One curious fact is that Canneto di Caronia is quite
close to Cefalu, where the notorious black magician
Aleister Crowley (1875-1947) had his Temple of Thelema in
the 1930s. The derelict building is still there," leading
to speculation that some black magickal spell of Crowley's
may have activated 56 years after his death. (See the
Italian newspaper Il Messagero for April 13, 2004, also
Fortean Times No. 183 for June 2004, "The Burning
Question," page 8. Many thanks to Mary Lou Jones-Drown
for forwarding the newspaper article.)
(Editor's Comment: The blood of a black goat, eh? It's
nice to see research undertaken on such sound scientific
principles. Well, look at the bright side. At least now
we have the plot for Scooby Doo 3: A Hot Time in
Coolsville.)


FAYETTE FACTOR LINKED
TO MOTORIZED MAYHEM

   Bizarre hit-and-run auto accidents...mysterious fires
in western Pennsylvania...a strange murder-suicide in
Louisiana...it was another bumper week for the Fayette
Factor.
   The Fayette Factor is the strangest phenomenon yet in
Forteana. It's the unusually high incidence of strange
and bizarre incidents that take place in towns and cities-
-and even on streets--named after Marie-Joseph de Motier,
the Marquis de Lafayette, one of the USA's Founding
Fathers and a prominent Freemason.
   In North Carolina, "police said a man in a white T-
shirt and boxer shorts mowed down five pedestrians with
two stolen vehicles in separate hit-and-run incidents
Wednesday," April 14, 2004, "leaving a dying man pinned
under a vehicle and another victim critically injured."
   "Police said the driver was arrested in central North
Carolina after crashing a stolen truck."
   "Abdullah El-Amin Shareef, 25, was charged with
murder and taken to a state mental hospital."
   "Authorities said they had no information about a
motive in the assaults, including one attack in which a
driver beat a pedestrian after failing to run over him a
second time."
   "The first victim was hit a few minutes after the
theft of a van belonging to the city of Fayetteville,
N.C., authorities said."
   "Over about two hours, the attacker appeared to
deliberately run down pedestrians from Fayetteville, in
Cumberland County, north to the Raleigh area, according to
Fayetteville police and the state highway patrol."
   "The van was found in Cumberland County with Lionel
Bearl Bass, 56, pinned beneath it. Bass, of Linden, N.C.,
was pronounced dead at a hospital."
   "Bass' son, Scott, said the assailant stole his
father's pickup truck."
   "Another hit-and-run victim, Gary Lee Weller, 55, was
in critical condition at University of North Carolina
Hospital in Chapel Hill. Police said a motorist found him
lying in a Fayetteville road."
   "Robert Fortier, hit in Cumberland County, and an
unidentified victim in Harnett County suffered injuries
that were not life-threatening, authorities said. The
Harnett County victim was hit by the stolen truck, and the
others were hit by the van, police said."
   In Michigan, "there has been a major development in
the deadly hit-and-run case that claimed the life" of a
prominent Detroit judge. "Two people are in custody, and
now the judge's wife says she wants to meet them face to
face."
   "A day before the judge's funeral, there were two
people in custody believed to be responsible for the
deadly hit-and-run accident. Judge John Perry was killed
Monday night," April 12, 2004, "when a speeding car hit
him as he crossed Lafayette Street near his home."
   Commenting on the spurt of hit-and-run incidents,
Fortean researcher Loren Coleman asked, "Is the Fayette
Factor now getting down to street level?"
   Mysterious fires continued to dominate the news in
Fayette County, Pennsylvania, south of Pittsburgh. The
county has had the most bizarre events during the current
flap.
(Editor's Note: For more on Fayette County's weird past,
see UFO Roundup, volume 9, number 15 for April 14, 2004,
"1784: Strange secrets of Fayette County, Pa." page 14.)
   According to The Pittsburgh Channel, "Some apartments
above Burns' Drug Store were set on fire February 20
(2004), one of seven arsons to plague the northern Fayette
County city since October (2003)."
   Another strange incident involved members of the
Fayette County Fire Department.
   "The Fayette County firefighters will be in court
today to hear their sentences for a scheme to burn down
the firehouse so they could use the insurance money to
build a new social hall."
   "Authorities said the Isabella firefighters, William
Robison, Jerry Booker II, Thomas Baker and Steven Dugan
concocted the plan in 2002."
   "The first three pleaded guilty to their alleged role
in the scheme while Dugan, a third-generation (fire) chief
went to trial and was convicted of mail fraud for lying
about his knowledge of the fires to insurance
investigators."
   "The two fires destroyed the three-story, century-old
building and a 1937 International Pumper, the department's
first fire truck."
   An equally baffling fire broke out last week in
Fayetteville, Missouri.
   "A man and his son died Sunday," April 11, 2004, "in
an early morning fire in Fayetteville, Mo. after they had
been out for a joint birthday party celebration."
   "St. Clair County coroner Rick Stone identified the
dead as Dennis 'Mel' Pfeiffer, 51, of Fayetteville, Mo.,
and Brandon MacDonald, 25, of Freeburg, Mo., who was
visiting his father."
   "Pfeiffer's birthday was Saturday," April 10, "and
his son's birthday was Sunday," April 11, 2004, "said Leo
Burris, a neighbor and friend of Pfeiffer's. Burris said
he saw the men Saturday night at a tavern. He said they
went home about 9:30 p.m."
   "Another neighbor, Darold Lanham, reported a fire at
Pfeiffer's house on South Water Street shortly after 2
a.m. Sunday. Lanham said he was awakened by the sound of
ammunition exploding and saw the house was on fire."
   "Fayetteville volunteer firefighters arrived within
five minutes but found one side of the house engulfed in
flames. The fire was quickly brought under control, but
firefighter Charles Nikolauzyk said the two men were
probably dead before help arrived."
   "Investigators from the coroner's and the state fire
marshal's offices 'were pretty sure smoke was what killed
them,' Nikolauzyk said. Pfeiffer's body was found in the
bathroom, and his son's body was in the living room."
   "The greatest damage was around the kitchen, and
Burris theorized that Pfeiffer decided to cook something
after he returned home."
   "'He was probably listening to his bluegrass and
country music,' Burris said, 'I can't imagine that
happening to him.'"
   "Firefighters from Freeburg, Mo. and St. Libory, Mo.
assisted the Fayetteville firefighters."
   In Louisiana, "a man wanted for allegedly killing two
people was found dead, an apparent suicide, inside a
Baptist church early Friday," April 9, 2004, "police
said."
   "Joseph Davis Jr., 21, apparently shot himself soon
after entering the church on Thursday night," April 8,
2004, "police said."
   "Police had heard gunshots inside the church,
surrounded the building and tried to telephone him before
entering and finding Davis's body early Friday."
(Editor's Comment: Gunshots!? Usually, a suicide victim
only has to squeeze the trigger once. What was Davis
shooting at?)
   "Davis committed suicide with the .380 caliber
semiautomatic handgun that he had (allegedly) used in the
killings, Lafayette, La. police spokesman Mark Francis
said. Davis had been sought by police for several hours
after Alicia Isaac, 20, and Ronald Fils, 22, were shot
inside an apartment. Isaac died at the scene, and Fils
later died at a local hospital."
   Finally, in Fayetteville, N.C., "the family of a Fort
Bragg soldier who disappeared more than 10 years ago say
police told them that his remains had been found in the
backyard of a Fayetteville home."
   "Sgt. Terry Lee Webb, who was 43, vanished in July
1991. Though he was separated from his second wife,
Melvia, the mother of two of his seven children, he seemed
happy when he phoned his two oldest daughters July 12,
1991. He said he was looking forward to visiting them in
Pittsburgh and to a family reunion in Virginia, and he
talked about his plans to retire in nine months after
nearly 20 years in the Army."
   "'He was in very good spirits. He was ready to
retire,' said his daughter, Terryrey Webb-Brandon."
   "It was their last conversation. A police report
says the manager of his apartment complex saw him the next
day," July 13, 1991. Webb's "abandoned car was found
about a week later. But no one had seen Webb since."
   "Now police, led by a federal prison inmate who
claimed to know what happened to Webb, have found remains
behind a Fayetteville house."
   "Melvia Webb says she's been told that they are her
husband's."
   "'It's just like death all over again for us,' she
said last week, 'It doesn't ease the pain. It still
hurts.'"
   "In the fall of 2002, police talked with a federal
prisoner who claimed to have information about a killing
in 1991, according to an affidavit for a search warrant.
Richard Brewington was convicted on firearms charges in
April 2002 and sentenced to 15 years in prison."
   "Brewington told police that a friend landed on his
doorstep early one morning in July 1991 and said he had
killed a man whom he called 'T.'  He sent the friend
away, but the man came back the next day and asked for
help moving T's body. Brewington sent him away again."
   "Two days later, the man came back and described how
he killed T with a shotgun, used a car and rope to drag
the heavy body to his parents' backyard, then buried it
there with mothballs, according to the affidavit.
Brewington told police that his friend was driving T's car
on at least one visit."
   "Police combed through old crime reports until they
found two which matched the story: the break-in at Webb's
apartment and the discovery of his car. They determined
that T and Webb were the same person, the affidavit said."
(See the Los Angeles Times for April 15, 2004, "One dead,
four injured in hit-and-run spree;" the WXYZ Detroit news
broadcast for April 15, 2004, "New developments in deadly
hit-and-run;" the Pittsburgh Channel for April 13, 2004,
"Mysterious fires," and for April 15, 2004, "Fayette
County firefighters to be sentenced in arson scheme;" the
St. Louis Post-Dispatch for April 11, 2004, "Fire kills
father and son in Fayetteville;" the Winston-Salem, N.C.
Journal for April 11, 2004, "Remains of missing soldier
found, family says;" and the Leesville, La. Daily Leader
for April 11, 2004, "Man wanted in double killing kills
self in Lafayette." Many thanks to Loren Coleman for
these news stories.)


MYSTERY OF SEDNA'S
MISSING MOON

   Astronomers are puzzled over the strange
disappearance of Sedna's moon.
   Sedna, the planetoid 1,000 miles in diameter
discovered several weeks ago, was first photographed with
a small moon orbiting its icy sphere. Sedna is located
about 8 billion miles (12 billion kilometers) from Earth.
   "A missing-moon mystery emerged Wednesday," April 14,
2004, "from Hubble Space Telescope images of Sedna, the
recently-discovered mini-planet beyond Pluto."
   "Sedna, less than 1,000 miles (1,600 kilometers) wide
was discovered last month by astronomer Mike Brown of the
California Institute of Technology. He reported that
Sedna orbits about 8.4 billion miles from the sun, making
it the most distant planet-like body in the solar system."
   "Brown's team had reported Sedna spins once every 40
days and suggested it possessed a companion moon locked to
its rotation by tidal forces."
   "However, Hubble images of Sedna show no moon,
suggesting that any satellite may orbit too close to be
seen--or that it may have been stripped away by another
planet."
   "'We still strongly believe there is, or was, a
satellite of Sedna,' Brown says. He hopes to resume
scrutinizing Sedna in six months, when it comes back into
view." (See USA Today for April 15, 2004, "Sedna's moon
absent in Hubble images," page 8D.)
(Editor's Comment: It may be that the "moonlet" seen by
Brown's team two months ago was actually a very large
alien spacecraft that called briefly at Sedna to take on a
load of ice for their long voyage through space.)


WEIRD POWER FAILURE
DISRUPTS L.A. AIRPORT

   "A power failure at Los Angeles International Airport
on Monday," April 12, 2004, "caused flight-monitoring
equipment to briefly fail and created tense moments for
air traffic controllers who used portable radios to
communicate with planes."
   "About 100 arriving flights were delayed at" the
USA's "fourth-busiest airport while controllers followed
emergency plans to get them to the ground safely,
according to Federal Aviation Administration (FAA)
officials and the union representing controllers."
   "'That was a big deal,' said Bob Marks, regional
vice-president for the National Air Traffic Controllers
Association. 'It was like someone walked in and pulled
the power cord at the tower. Everything was dead.'"
   "The FAA said it did not know why emergency
generators didn't immediately restore power after the
blackout. A telephone system that links controllers at
the airport tower to other air traffic facilities remained
down for more than three hours."
   "A power outage in the area around the airport at
9:38 a.m. Pacific Time triggered the problems. The
airport returned to normal about two hours later, and
airport officials reported few disruptions."
   "Marks said essential equipment such as radar screens
stayed off as long as 60 to 90 seconds. 'My guys up there
said it felt like an eternity,' Marks said. Controllers
grabbed battery-powered portable radios to talk to pilots,
he said."
   "A small number of planes nearing the airport when
the power went out had to abort their landings and climb
away from the airport, FAA spokeswoman Laura Brown said.
They were handled by controllers at an air traffic
facility in San Diego that guides planes into and out of
Southern California airports."
   "Radar screens at the San Diego location also briefly
went blank, but controllers there remained in contact with
pilots, Marks said."
   "Most of the equipment returned to normal quickly,
but the devices that allow controllers to communicate
rapidly with their counterparts at other facilities did
not work after the power came back on. Technicians
restored communications at 12:45 p.m." Pacific Time.
   "A morning fog that lowered visibility and slowed
traffic lifted as controllers struggled to restore the
airport to normal. That allowed controllers to increase
arrivals and minimize delays from the outage."
   "Controllers put some flights into holding patterns,
and others were delayed before departing. The delays
lasted about an hour." (See USA Today for April 13, 2004,
"Power outage causes delays at L.A. airport," page 3A.)


PREHISTORIC PIPELINE
FOUND IN WESTERN CHINA

   "Chinese scientists have announced plans to
investigate a mysterious site in western China's Qingdai
province which many have speculated might be the handiwork
of extraterrestrial visitors."
   "An expedition of nine prominent scientists visited
the site in February (2004) to investigate the
extraterrestrial claims. Known by locals as 'the ET
relics,' a pyramid-like structure on Mount Baigong 40
kilometers (25 miles) south of Delingha has provoked
worldwide attention."
   "Triangular openings on the front of the pyramid lead
into three caves. Two are collapsed, but inside the
largest are pipes of unknown origin. A half-pipe about 40
centimeters (15 inches) in diameter tilts from the top to
the inner end while another of the same diameter goes into
the earth."
   "Above the cave, a dozen pipes of various diameters
run into the mountain. Scattered about the area is a
profusion of rusty scraps and pipes of various diameter,
as well as strangely-shaped stones. Some pipes run into
the (nearby) lake."
   "Qin Jianwen, head of the publicity department of
Delingha's municipal government, says the scraps were
taken to a local smelter for analysis."
    "The report revealed that they are made up of 30
percent ferric oxide with a large amount of silicon
dioxide and calcium oxide. Eight percent of the
content could not be identified."
   "'The large content of silicon dioxide and calcium
oxide is a result of long interaction between iron and
sandstone, which means the pipes must be very old,' claims
Liu Shaolin, the engineer who did the chemical analysis."
(See the magazine Atlantis Rising No. 45 for May/June
2004, "Experts to study China 'ET Relics,'" page 13. The
original newspaper story appeared in People's Daily.)
(Editor's Comment: I don't think the plumbing was
installed by aliens. I think it's left over from the
long-lost Uighur Empire of 175,000 B.C., which Colonel
James Churchward (1851-1936) wrote about in his book, The
Children of Mu.)


From the UFO Files...

1942: AN ALIEN ENCOUNTER
      NEAR NOVOSIBIRSK

   The first six months of 1942 marked the high tide of
Axis victories in World War II. In Russia, Leningrad (now
back to its original name of St. Petersburg--J.T.) was
under siege; fierce fighting was taking place around
Voronezh; and, in the south, Hitler's Wehrmacht was
closing in on the Volga River and Stalingrad (now called
Vologograd--J.T.).
   During the previous winter, Joseph Vissarionovich
Djugashvili, better known as Stalin, the leader of the
Soviet Union, had ordered whole factories dismantled and
shipped by rail east of the Ural Mountains. The Soviet
arms industry was literally reborn in Siberia, and the
city of Novosibirsk, on the Ob River, overnight became a
major manufacturing center.
   Russian women manufactured the tanks, planes,
artillery and bombs while their men were fighting the
German drive east. Among the thousands of relocated
munitions workers was Nelya Ivanova, 15, who lived with
her mother in Krivoshzekovo, a suburb just west of
Novosibirsk.
   Nelya was a member of the Komsomol (Russian acronym
for Communist Youth League--J.T.) and, together with her
classmates, worked long hours at the munitions factory.
They alternated between high-school classes and work on
the assembly line. One hour of classroom instruction,
followed by two hours of factory work.
   One day, while cleaning up in the factory washroom,
Nelya and her friends were approached by Tatiana
Alexandrovna, who was extremely excited about something.
   "Have you heard!?" Tatiana said in a loud whisper,
looking around to see if any commissars were within
earshot.
   "Heard what?" Natalya Sergeiyevna replied.
   "About the aerdrome." Tatiana pretended to be
scrubbing her hands beneath the streaming faucet.
"They've fenced it off with concertina barbed wire. All
of the soldiers are gone, replaced with OGPU guards. And
the guards all have PPSh tommyguns. They're not letting
anybody in. Not even Party members."
   Nelya didn't think the girl was putting them on.
Tatiana was always going over there on one excuse or
another. Everybody knew she was interested in a soldier
from Niznekamsk who "looked just like Clark Gable."
   "What do you think they're doing over there?" Nelya
asked.
   "Working on secret weapons," Tatiana replied, "Maybe
it's a Flying Fortress like the one we heard about on the
radio. A steel fortress filled with helium that our
aircraft can tow over Berlin."
   "It's probably one of those funny-looking airplanes
with the propellor in the tail," Natalya said.
   "Or a rocket-plane like the fascists have," another
girl observed.
(Editor's Note: She means the Messerschmitt 163 Komet.)
   "Shhhhhh! Here comes the commissar."
   Nelya began vigorously washing her hands as the sour-
faced Party cadre walked in. But she couldn't stop
wondering about the closed-off aerdrome. She resolved to
have a look for herself.
   Nelya's opportunity came a couple of weeks later,
when she was drafted for an overtime shift. Leaving the
factory at 10:30 p.m., she decided to take advantage of
the darkness and check out the aerdrome.
   "Siezed by curiosity, Nelya succeeded in penetrating
the guarded facility. What she saw amazed her. Instead
of ordinary airplanes, she noticed beautiful, large, disk-
shaped objects sitting on the ground, spreading a bluish
light around them."
   Nelya gaped in amazement. Five years before Roswell,
she was seeing close up a flotilla of flying saucers.
   "Suddenly, a strange 'man' approached her. His
height was no more than 1.2 or 1.3 meters (3 feet, 8
inches to 4 feet tall--J.T.) The entity had a big head,
huge black eyes. His skin was grayish and wrinkled 'like
the old men have.' He was dressed in black, tight-fitting
coveralls."
   "Nelya was a brave girl. She was neither bewildered
nor frightened." Having recently read Swift's Gulliver's
Travels in her high school literature class, she asked,
"Are you a Lilliputian?"
   "'No,' he answered, 'I am not Lilliputian. We are
all the same.'"
   "How old are you?" Nelya asked.
   "A lot! On Earth, I am very aged."
   "And where are you from?"
   "It is too early for you to know that. You are very
young, and you would not understand."
   All at once, "the girl caught the unexpected thought
that he was from another planet. She couldn't explain how
she had gotten this idea."
   "And when she asked him, he answered, 'Tell
me...Nelya Ivanova...how did you guess that I am not from
this world?'"
   "Nelya did not answer, so the 'Grey' dwarf continued,
'You bear in mind that your country will win this war. We
will then share our technologies with your government.
And as for you, bear in mind that your brain is highly
developed. If you want, you can fly with us.'"
   "'No,' Nelya said, shaking her head. 'I have my
mother...my brothers.'"
   "'We will take your brothers. I know that all five
of them are at the front.'"
   "At the end, the alien gave Nelya some crystals and
said that these would help to stimulate and improve her
memory. Wherever she went, he explained, the aliens would
be able to find her with the aid of those crystals."
   When the war ended in May 1945, Nelya and her mother
were permitted to return to their old home in Rostov-na-
Donu. They heard nothing from any of Nelya's five
brothers. So in 1946, her mother wrote to the Soviet
Ministry of Defense and received a disturbing reply.
   All five of Nelya's brothers were listed as Missing
in Action (MIA). The young men had vanished sometime
during the battle of Kursk in July 1943, a year after
Nelya's close encounter.
   "After the war, Nelya Ivanova joined the KGB and kept
silent about her unusual experience for many decades.
Today Nelya, age 77, lives and works in Aksay, a town in
the Rostov region." (See the Russian magazine Taynayna
Doktrina No. 13 for July 2003, "Did aliens help USSR
during the Great Patriotic War?" page 16. Many thanks to
Anton Anfalov and Igor V. Kolomiets for this magazine
article.)

   Well, that's it for this week. Join us in seven days
for more UFO, Fortean and paranormal news from around the
planet Earth--and occasionally, Mars--brought to you by
"the paper that goes home--UFO Roundup." See you then.

UFO ROUNDUP: Copyright 2004 by Masinaigan Productions, all
rights reserved. Readers may post news items from UFO
Roundup on their Web sites or in news groups provided that
they credit the newsletter and its editor by name and list
the date of issue in which the item first appeared.

E-Mail Reports to: Joseph Trainor <Masinaigan.nul>
or use the Sighting Report Form at:

http://www.ufoinfo.com/forms/form_sighting.htm

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plus archives of Humanoid Sighting Reports (Albert
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   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   Apr > Apr 20

                   Re: High Strangeness On SDI - Balaskas

From: Nick Balaskas <Nikolaos.nul>
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 09:57:07 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
Fwd Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 19:41:56 -0400
Subject: Re: High Strangeness On SDI - Balaskas


>From: Wendy Connors <fadeddiscs.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates <UFOUpdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 09:15:24 -0600
>Subject: High Strangeness On SDI

>Greetings to the List Members,

>Tonight, April 17, 2004, EBK and I will once again be burning
>up the airwaves, on Strange Days... Indeed, with clips from my
>newest 7 hour MP3 compilation entitled, "High Strangeness -
>M.I.B.s, Flatwoods Monster, Mothman and Hairy Bi-Peds in UFOs.
>Please join us via the internet on CFRB 1010 in Toronto or CJAD
>800 in Montreal.

Everyone should order a copy of Wendy Connors' latest MP3 and
listen to many more hours of truly incredible UFO history which
contains many very interesting facts and important details long
since forgotten by ufologists but still upsetting for debunkers.

>We'll bring you a clip on the Mystery Satellite phenomena of
>the late 1950s, a rare Frank Edwards clip from his "Stranger
>than Science" radio vignette series, an M.I.B. encounter by
>Dr. Hopkins, Stan Gordon and the Pennsylvania Hairy Bi-Peds
>and UFOs and Gray Barker talking about Australian and
>Canadian silencing of UFO researchers.

The sound clip on the mystery satellite in polar orbit around
the Earth is further evidence that the U.S. military tracked it
and took it very seriously at the time.

Thanks to many leads from fellow researchers, including Grant
Cameron, I have a bulging file folder full of photocopied
published papers from scientific journals and articles from
reputable periodicals and newspapers that prove that not only
were these pre-Sputnik satellites real but that some of these
large mysterious objects or UFOs (and their occupants?) may
still be in orbit around our planet today!

A big thanks also to Errol Bruce-Knapp for keeping us updated on
the latest news and developments on UFOs and to his many guests
like Wendy Connors who keep us informed and amazed on his
'Strange Days... Indeed' radio program every week.


Nick Balaskas







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   Apr > Apr 20

                         Re: Bible Code II - Sandow

From: Greg Sandow <greg.nul>
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 10:11:18 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 19:43:29 -0400
Subject: Re: Bible Code II - Sandow


>From: Eleanor White <eleanor.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 17:43:41 -0400
>Subject: Re: Bible Code II

>Before I were to bury Bible codes as refuted, I would want to
>run the software which extracts the codes for myself. (And
>probably have a Bible code researcher comment on the software
>I was using.)

Be sure to run it on texts that aren't from the Bible! My guess:
the software will get results from any text.

Remember, years ago, the furor about Satanic messages allegedly
recorded backwards in rock songs?

One group was sued, along with its record label, for allegedly
putting these messages in their songs, and thus causing some
poor teenaged fan to kill himself.  The lawsuit failed, in part
because the group could demonstrate that any song could be
played backwards, and alleged messages found in it. The
messages, in short, are random artifacts. It's the overeager
listener who decides that they're significant.


Greg Sandow

Another fact to bear in mind. If you perform enough
rearrangements of the letters in enough words, you'll eventually
find something with significance for you. Pure chance.







   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   Apr > Apr 20

                Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers -

From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman.nul>
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 10:27:26 -0700
Fwd Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 19:45:04 -0400
Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers -


>From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:18:17 +0200
>Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers

>>From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 09:01:59 -0700
>>Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers

>>>From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais.nul>
>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 18:06:00 +0200
>>>Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers

><snip>

>>>Now, about the story of the cameraman, I don't believe one word
>>>of it. And that extends to the "revelation" of the Socorro crash
>>>site.

>>But what has led you to this conclusion? I believed the
>>cameraman, and his directions led me to an old lake bed, at the
>>end of a canyon, where the earth and vegetation had been
>>subjected to a scorching heat of some kind and the rocks and
>>dirt and sand an outcroppings were covered with a strange blue,
>>glass-like material.

>I already explained on this List why, like almost everybody,
>I suspect the story to be false. Why do you ask again ?

Gildas,

Because I brought you new evidence that should have changed your
previously held beliefs. I thought this was the main function of
the Updates list: to discuss and present new evidence. The
discovery of unusual amounts (tons) of a blue, glass-like
material, ( cristobalite), covering a site that matches in every
specific detail a drawing directed by the cameraman, should
cause folks like you, who have shown an interest in the AA, to
take another look at the cameraman's story.

My conclusion is that you aren't paying attention because you've
decided that my evidence is phony, or that I'm seriously deluded
or crazy, or I'm purposely trying to mislead the list. Are you
so busy that you can't take the time to discuss, in an
intelligent fashion, this important discovery? If I'm correct
and this dry lake bed , SW of Socorro is the crash site of the
AA craft and creatures, then don't you think this might go a
long way toward validating the remainder of the cameraman's
story and the AA footage?


Ed








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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   Apr > Apr 20

                            Mars Rover Anomalies

From: John Scheldroup <jschel.nul>
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 13:20:16 -0500
Fwd Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 19:48:57 -0400
Subject: Mars Rover Anomalies


Did Mars Rover take picture of UFO well lets see?

http://www.rense.com/general51/curious.htm

http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/2/n/094/2N134687551ESF2700P1962L0M1.H
TML

I have found that for photo enhancement work, that a 24 bit
bitmap is best. What I did was take the NASA jpeg photo and
format to an bitmap then enhancement for resolution using Ulead
photo systems. I converted it back to jpeg and placed it in a
folder at my website.

The three composite bitmaps are much clearer and less grainy
then the jpeg seen below, and is a reflection of their file size
to.

2.01 mb
663  kb
232  kb

2N134_1E.JPG --- 153 k

http://home.centurytel.net/cty90143/jpeg/marsrover/2N134_1E.JPG

Well List what do you think?


John





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               Re: Steve Bassett For President #5 - Reitnauer

From: Jonathan Reitnauer <strangeskies.nul>
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 16:33:32 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 19:53:26 -0400
Subject: Re: Steve Bassett For President #5 - Reitnauer


>From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 07:32:50 -0500
>Subject: Steve Bassett For President #5

>UFOs, the abduction phenomena, scary current events, and the
>Government's (elected or non-elected) secret knowledge
>regarding these things... has a tremulous, albeit tremendous
>(!) chance of getting some prime time 'air' this election
>cycle, if we don't blow it! If we don't cut off our individual
>noses to spite our collective face! If we don't, as a result of
>canted principles, allow ourselves to succeed. If we don't act
>like rigid and uncompromising knee-jerk ideologues... if we
>don't insist on failing to see the forest for one freaking tree!

>The opportunity to accomplish this is monumental, rare, and
>completely unintended. Like the internet, it wasn't 'supposed'
>to happen. Here is a chance for regular, primetime, and
>national (world actually!) exposure for concerns and interests
>that don't _remotely_ get the attention... most of us reading
>would see that those concerns get! Here is an opportunity to
>really stick it to those who would define our realities for us,
>shortchange our potentialities for us, and hamstring our
>capabilities for us!

>Here's a chance for the little guy (you and me!) to end-run the
>cultural bulk and conflicted intentions of our corrupted
>institutions, agencies, and governments... and thrust the light
>of inquiry deeply under the rock of jealous non-disclosure!
>We're allowed an un-forecast and surprising chance to wrest
>victory from the jaws of defeat, to get expansive, regular, and
>pervasive attention on the coming of a newer (larger!) reality,
>and kick our national (world?) consciousness to a new level
>this summer. Ladies and gentlemen... the fish are jumping and
>the cotton is high!

>Steve Bassett, like the rest of us, lacks the blue blood,
>ethical and unethical political connections, and the huge
>pocketbooks of those who 'do' run for the office of President
>of the United States. But he has a chance via this "Showtime"
>Cable TV opportunity this summer to prosecute a candidacy for
>that office like he was! In that way he is no different than
>those who run for the actual office! He'll get significant
>airtime to address challenging issues, and they will be issues
>that are unfiltered by 'insiders' and 'party hacks'. They will
>be 'our' issues! Like I say... this opportunity is pure
>serendipity, unlikely providence, and fortuitous fate if we
>take advantage of it! If we grasp and hold fast...!!! Remember
>- anybody can play, anybody can have a hand in this! Age and
>nationality are immaterial! Vote STEVE! Disclosure NOW! Pass
>this on, tell your friends. Cross-post this message everywhere
>you can - anywhere you can think of! Get the word out! Let's
>not blow this wonderful opportunity for... not answers...
>better QUESTIONS!

First, I would just like to say hello to everyone here. This is
my first post to the List, although I am a longtime reader of
the Archive and a casual UFO researcher myself.

Now, I must say I agree completely with the above. More research
and investigation will add to the body of evidence, but that
body is so large already that it is overwhelming. What we need
is more people in positions of power taking it seriously. We
also need more of the public to realize just how large it is.
Without that, it will become irrelevant to everyone but the
investigators and researchers. This would not be a good thing.

The entire last 50+ years have not been a complete failure in
this regard. Against the endless government juggernaut of denial
and chronic assaults by debunkers, the truth has stuck around.

According to recent polls over a third of Americans believe
extraterrestrial visits to earth have already taken place. Over
half believe the government has continually lied about what it
knows. Where did they get this view? It certainly wasn't from
the government. It certainly wasn't from the mass media. It was
from people like Steve and others shoving the facts in their
face and saying "take a look at this."

Efforts like this will only increase public support for
disclosure. And in my opinion, disclosure will never happen
until the public outcry is so great that the government can no
longer ignore it. That may still be a while off.

But let's not lose what little progress has been made by not
giving support to these kinds of efforts. Sure a =B3mock
presidential election=B2 may sound silly, but it is nonetheless a
chance to get our voice on the public airwaves in a big way.


Jonathan R.






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                        Re: Bible Code II - Dickenson

From: Ray Dickenson <editor.nul>
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 23:07:25 +0100
Fwd Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 07:31:55 -0400
Subject: Re: Bible Code II - Dickenson


>From: Eleanor White <eleanor.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 17:43:41 -0400
>Subject: Re: Bible Code II - White

>Has anyone on the List every actually tried out the software
>used to extract the Bible codes? The reason I ask is that...
>we find that so-called refutations of information themselves
>can be bogus.

Hello Eleanor

Yes, I agree that many a headline "refutation" when analyzed is
merely a 'scientist' abusing his position / qualifications to
demand that the status quo be maintained. Like "it is... because
I say so!"

In this case we're dealing with "hard statistics" of large
numbers (which I personally find to be counter-intuitive anyway).

Boiling down paper from Brendan McKay and Friends:

http://cs.anu.edu.au/~bdm/dilugim/torah.html

and without the pure statistical part, it seems that we're
looking at four factors

1) genuineness of TEXT (including spelling choices)
2) choice of area of TEXT
3) validity of ALGORITHMS (routines run on text)
4) tightness of ALGORITHMS

If all are decided blind, in advance, and then a "decode" is
run: then the results are 'significant' to whatever degree. But,
as Brendan makes clear, if any are tweaked (in any way) to
"improve" a second run: then those second results are _not_
significant.

And a major thrust of Brendan's paper (but by no means all of
its strength) is that it seems _all_ those factors had to be
repeatedly tweaked at different times to get near the published
"revealings".

[BTW that's why mDNA back-tracing sometimes seems a little flaky
- the algorithms have to be tweaked, like Relativity math, to get
sensible results]

Brendan has added a reference to Bible Code II but haven't had
chance to read it yet (ISP collapse today so sorry for delay).

BTW again - Terry W. Colvin just sent in a fortean note that
"Brendan was winner of the Australian Skeptics Eureka Prize for
Critical Thinking in 2003 ($10,000)" - but don't let that
influence our thinking.


Cheers
Ray D


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Perceptions" http://www.perceptions.couk.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~






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                    'Other Folk' Or 'Parallel Race' Theme

From: Terry W. Colvin <fortean1.nul>
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 19:22:51 -0700
Fwd Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 07:35:58 -0400
Subject:  'Other Folk' Or 'Parallel Race' Theme


Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 16:19:43 -0700
From: "T. Peter Park" <tpeterpark.nul>
  To: forteana.nul
Subj: [forteana] "Other Folk" or "Parallel Race" theme


Dear David and fellow Forteans,

With respect to fairies and aliens, I'm particularly intrigued
by mixed or in-between cases, where witnesses have claimed to
have encountered beings with both fairy and space-alien aspects.
 A good example of such an ambiguous or borderline creature is
the frog-eyed 3-foot-tall humanoid in a fairy or leprechaun
costume from an egg-shaped UFO encountered by John Trasco of
Everittstown, NJ on the evening of November 6th, 1957. Trasco
went outside at dusk to feed his dog and saw a brilliant egg-
shaped object hovering in front of his barn. He was confronted
by a being 3 feet tall with a "putty-colored face" with a nose,
chin,  and "large frog-like eyes" wearing a green suit with
shiny buttons, a green tam-o-shanter-like cap, and gloves with a
shiny object at the tip of each finger. The dwarf said, in
broken English, "we are peaceful people, we only want your dog."
The frightened but angry Trasco retorted, "Get the hell out of
here." The being then ran away, and a moment later his machine
took off straight up.

Trasco's wife saw the object from inside the house, but did not
see the "little man" because of some shrubbery. However, she
heard the dwarf's voice and her husband's angry retort. She told
reporters that her husband tried to grab the dwarf, and got some
green powder on his wrist, which washed off. The next day, he
also found some of the green powder under his fingernails.[ _CSI
Newsletter_, December 1957,cited by Coral Lorenzen, "UFO
Occupants in United States Reports" in Charles Bowen, ed., _The
Humanoids : A Survey of Worldwide Reports of Landings of
Unconventional Aerial Objects and Their Occupants_ (Chicago:
Henry Regnery, 1969)*, p. 156, and by Jacques Vallee, _Passport
to Magonia: From Folklore to Flying Saucers_ (Chicago: Henry
Regnery, 1969)_, pp. 43-44, 264; Jacques Vallee, _Dimensions_,
70.]

In what Jacques Vallee called "another of the extraordinary
coincidences with which UFO researchers are now becoming
familiar," incidentally, that very same morning another UFO
alien had attempted to steal a dog from a boy named Everett in
Dante, Tennessee. Having failed to steal a dog from Everett,
they tried to abduct one in Everittstown, where, as Vallee
noted, "by yet another coincidence, the name of the town...is
similar to the name of the witness (Everett)" in the Dante TN
case!

However, the alien trying to steal Everett Clark's dog was not a
frog-eyed dwarf in leprechaun costume, but rather a German-
speaking human-looking astronaut of ordinary appearance,
resembling the ordinary-looking German-speaking astronauts seen
the day before in Kearney, Nebraska by Reinhold Schmidt!

Around 6:30 A.M. on November 6, 1957, 12-year-old Everett Clark
arose and opened the door to let his dog Frisky outside. He saw
a strange object in a field about 100 yards from the house. The
object was long, round, translucent, and of "no particular
color." He thought he was dreaming and went back inside. About
20 minutes later, Everett went out to call his dog, and saw that
the object was still there, with Frisky and several other
neighborhood dogs standing near it. Also near the object he saw
two men and two women in ordinary clothing, talking "like German
soldiers he had seen in movies." One of the men tried to grab
Frisky, who growled and backed away. The man then grabbed
another dog, which attempted to bite him, so he let it go. One
of the men motioned to Everett to come to him, but Everett
refused. The strange people then "walked through the side" of
the object, "as if it were glass." It then took off soundlessly
straight up.

Everett's High School principal later called him a serious and
honest boy. His parents, who worked at a nearby knitting mill,
found him upset when they returned from work. His grandmother
said that he called her after the incident and was "hysterical."
Reporters asked him if he had heard of Reinhold Schmidt's
November 5th Kearney encounter with its ordinary-looking,
German-speaking spacemen, but the boy apparently had not. The
Schmidt story just hit the news wires late the previous night,
and did not appear in the Knoxville newspapers until November
6th. When reporter Carson Brewer went to the field with Everett,
he found an oblong ring of pressed grass 24 feet long by 25 feet
wide, but Everett said the object had been much larger. Brewer
found he could not make a similar marking unless he walked round
and round at least a dozen times. Everett's father remarked, "I
don't think he made it up, but I still don't believe it."[
_Knoxville News-Sentinel_, November 6, 1957, cited by Coral
Lorenzen, "UFO Occupants in United States Reports," in Charles
Bowen, ed. _The Humanoids: A Survey of Worldwide Reports of
Landings of Unconventional Aerial Objects and Their Occupants_
(Chicago: Henry Regnery, 1969),  pp. 154-155, and by Jacques
Vallee, _Passport to Magonia: From Folklore to Flying Saucers_
(Chicago: Henry Regnery, 1969), pp. 43-44, 264; Jacques Vallee,
_Dimensions_, pp. 69-70.]

Regards, T. Peter

-----

<snip>

--
"Only a zit on the wart on the heinie of progress." Copyright
1992, Frank Rice


Terry W. Colvin, Sierra Vista, Arizona (USA)
<fortean1.nul>
Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Stargate/8958/index.html








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                       [SO] The X-Conference Revealed

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 07:39:33 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 07:39:33 -0400
Subject: [SO] The X-Conference Revealed




From: Bill Hamilton <skywatcher22.nul>
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 09:23:49 -0700
To: Skyopen.nul
Subject: [SO] The X-Conference Revealed


Skywatchers,

Some of you were there in Gaithesburg. The Hilton Hotel was
teeming with people eager to support disclosure of the truth
about UFOs and ET visitors.

It seemed to me that the most talked about man not present at
the conference was Dr. Dan Burisch.

I did several interviews. In my talk on Sunday on Area 51 I had
a full room with people sitting on the floor and gave a perfect
segue for Linda's talk with her main focus on the interview with
Dr. Dan Burisch.

Dr. Michael Salla also mentioned Burisch in his talk. This is
great. Now, I don't have to talk about him anymore. Others will
talk.

Of course there were many interesting presentations and you will
read the whole story in UFO Magazine.

I was surprised to learn, from someone I know, details of the
timeline paradox that corresponded not only with what I learned
from Dan, but had added detail. This is certainly leaked to the
public sector through other sources.

I was happy to talk with many old friends including Dr. Richard
Sauder, Linda Howe, and many others as well as develop new
friendships with Richard Dolan, David Coote, and others. Forgive
me if I do not give a long list of names. Stan Friedman, Bruce
Macabee, and the ever talkative Richard Hoagland were present.
Warm regards to Dr. Bob Wood (and some confirmatory remarks) and
his son, Ryan. John Greenawald, young up and coming researcher
is good news. Graham Bethune - many thanks for the corrected CIA
report. Grant Cameron, keep up the pursuit. You seem to know
what in important. Great to see Tim Good again and meet Nick
Pope from across the big pond. Jim Marrs was chock full of info
to impart. And Stephen Bassett was the Man of the Weekend, a
highly motivated dynamic person who wears me out just watching
him handle this event with hundreds filling up the Hilton (they
like that). And Peter Robbins from New York, hope you enjoyed
the Forestall letter and good luck with your research on the
cofounder of MJ-12.

Thank you Tim Beckeley for sending those books and DVDs. I sold
out the books.

For a group photo see:

http://www.coasttocoastam.com/gen/page449.html?theme=light


Bill Hamilton
Executive Director
Skywatch International, Inc.
Website:
http://www.skywatch-research.org
Fiat Lux et Veritas










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                          Return To Magonia Project

From: Rod Brock <humble98225.nul>
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 22:30:21 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 07:41:50 -0400
Subject: Return To Magonia Project


Friends and Colleagues,

The Magonia Exchange E-List, maintained by the 'Return to
Magonia' Project, has been in operation for over a year now, and
in that time the membership has gathered between 1000-2000
accounts of anomalous aerial phenomena predating the year 1947.
While some of the material heralds from antiquity, the 19th
century is heavily represented in accounts gathered thusfar. The
material is archived in daily digest form, and all pertinent
attachments - scans, pdf files, MSWord documents, etc., have
been retained in the archive. The archive is fully searchable
and advanced searches are supported. Recently,page caching with
highlights has been added to make searching the archives even
easier.

In an effort to interest experienced researchers in becoming
contributing members to the list, a sample of list-digests from
the past year has been posted at our Public website, to
demonstrate the kinds of material being shared on the list.

You may access the site at http://embark.to/magonia. Click
"Sample Archives" on the main menu.

If you experience problems with the above URL, the following URL
will work, as well:

http://nocturnal_lights.tripod.com/magoniax/


Cordially,

Rod Brock
Chris Aubeck

=====
THE MAGONIA EXCHANGE LIST
Collecting and sharing accounts
of anomalous aerial phenomena
from antiquity up to 1947.
http://embark.to/magonia








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                             City Nuts For UFOs

From: Terry Groff <terry.nul>
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 03:33:12 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 07:43:19 -0400
Subject: City Nuts For UFOs


Source: The Winnipeg Sun

http://www.canoe.ca/NewsStand/WinnipegSun/News/2004/04/21/430210.html

Wed, April 21, 2004


City Nuts For UFOs

Story spurs more reports

By Natalie Pona, Staff Reporter

Winnipeg has developed an eerie resemblance to Area 51 in the
last couple of days. Since a story about local air traffic
controllers who saw a light zoom through the sky appeared in The
Sun on Monday, the newspaper has been flooded with e-mails from
people who say they witnessed a similar phenomenon.

A husband and wife, who did not include their names, wrote to
say they frequently see alien aircraft.

"All we have to do is look out our apartment window, look
towards the city centre and sometimes we see them I sometimes
think we are going nuts."

Small, bright object

A woman named Deb said she spotted a small, bright object in the
sky while she was on a plane.

"It appeared lower than the plane but in the distance. I
followed it across the sky in the opposite direction ... until
it grew too small to see. And it was fast. I remember thinking
that I couldn't come up with any logical explanation as to what
the object was," Deb wrote.

A man named Steve e-mailed about the story's headline: UFO seen
whizzing over city.

"So I hope nobody got wet!" Steve's note quipped.

Doug Creamer, a pipe fitter from Alberta, said he saw two white
disks floating through the sky earlier this month.

It was the first time he saw a UFO, he said.

"You don't want to say it out loud ... people would just think
I'm nuts," Creamer said.

Area 51 is the U.S. military base located north of Las Vegas
that is frequently associated with UFO conspiracy theories.

Chris Rutkowski, a Winnipeg UFO researcher, said sightings are
up this year across Canada. The country averages 700 yearly, he
said.

"People are returning to having a sense of awe and wonder about
their place in the universe," he said.

Nervousness about world politics may be provoking more people to
look for meaning in life.

"People are looking above and beyond for help. A lot are looking
introspectively," Rutkowski said.

Rutkowski said there were nine national reports of UFOs of
similar description on the night the object was seen by the air
traffic controllers.

The new sightings will help with his investigation into the
origin of the UFO seen by the controllers.

"For the most part, people who report UFOs are actually seeing
something in the sky. We can usually explain it with an actual
(astronomical) event," he said.


Submitted by Terry Groff







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                          2004 Lyrid Meteor Shower

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 01:42:18 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 07:44:09 -0400
Subject: 2004 Lyrid Meteor Shower


Space Weather News for April 21, 2004

http://spaceweather.com

Earth is passing through a stream of dusty debris from Comet
Thatcher, the source of the annual Lyrid meteor shower. The best
time to look is during the hours before dawn on Thursday, April
22nd, when the shower peaks. Lyrids appear to stream from the
vicinity of the bright blue star Vega in the constellation Lyra
high in the northern sky. This is not an intense shower, but
some years it is pretty: northern sky watchers typically see
between 5 and 25 meteors per hour.

Visit Spaceweather.com for more information and a sky map.


Ray Stanford







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              200 Page Brazilian Operation Saucer Available As

From: A. J. Gevaerd  - Revista UFO <gevaerd.nul>
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 06:58:06 -0300
Fwd Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 07:47:47 -0400
Subject: 200 Page Brazilian Operation Saucer Available As


Dear Colleagues:

I submit to you the summarized translation of my article in
Brazilian UFO Magazine # 98, which is part of the recently
launched nation-wide campaign, UFOs: Freedom of Information
Now, which has been very successfully to this point. We have
gathered thousand of signatures to our petition.

In my article I mention the so-called Operation Saucer, conducted
by Brazilian military in the Amazon. Now, we have digitalized
over 200 pages of the official UFO docs from the final report of
such Operation Saucer and transformed them into PDF files. Soon,
over 600 pages will be available.

Anyone can download it (before Brazilian authorities disable the
website) at:

http://www.ufo.com.br/documentop.php.

Very soon, all content of the campaign will be made available in
English.

At this point, thousands of Brazilian UFO researchers,
investigators, speakers, authors and all sorts of UFO
enthusiasts are presently engaged in this comprehensive and in-
depth campaign to officialy request the end of government
secrecy about the UFO Phenomena in Brazil and the
declassification of military documents.

Those of you familiar with the Portuguese language can sign the
petition to the Brazilian government visiting the campaign
website at www.ufo.com.br/textoZero.php

International UFO community members can help the Brazilian
campaign by submitting supporting message to
campanha.nul Its coordination is made by the Brazilian
UFO Researchers Comission (CBU), the same that promoted the 1st
World UFO Forum (1997), with the support of the Brazilian Center
for Flying Saucer Research (CBPDV) and through the Brazilian UFO
Magazine.

Please, spread the info to your colleagues.

A. J. Gevaerd,
Cditor, Brazilian UFO Magazine
Campaign coordinator
(Translation: Marcos Malvezzi Leal)

---------------

Article: It is time to do much more

The struggle for freedom of UFO information in Brazil is not a
confrontation; it is a proposal for co-operation.

A. J. Gevaerd (gevaerd.nul)

There have been times of great outrage and upheaval amongst the
UFO researchers in Brazil when faced with the Brazilian military
forces=92 blatant denial of reality of the UFO phenomenon. One
such moment of indignation was the so-called UFOs=92 Official
Evening, in May 1986, when dozens of unidentified flying objects
were sighted and tracked on radar by different stations
belonging to the Integrated Center of Air Defense and Air
Traffic Control (Centro Integrado de Defesa A=E9rea e Controle de
Tr=E1fego A=E9reo (Cindacta)) and persecuted by fighter planes
dispatched by the Brazilian Air Force (FAB).

Every UFO investigator still remembers seeing former minister
for the Aeronautics Oct=E1vio Moreira Lima come public on
television and say, loud and clear, that within a month, FAB
would disclose the result of its investigations of the amazing
phenomenon. Needless to say, we are still waiting... The
revelation never came and when pressured to speak up, Moreira
Lima merely minimized the importance of the event, trying to
explain away, though not convincingly, the phenomenon which left
the Brazilian militaries at a loss before the apparent =93ultimate
arrival of the aliens to our planet=94.

The same thing had happened a decade before, in 1977, when FAB
was involved in an unprecedented and intense way in one of the
most amazing and tragic UFO flaps we=92ve ever heard of, all over
the world. It was the so-called =93Chupa-chupa=94 phenomenon
(=93chupa=94 meaning =93suck=94), in Amazonia, which culminated in the
so-called Operation Saucer (Plate), organized the 1st Regional
Air Command (Comar), in Bel=E9m, Par=E1. The leader of the Operation
was the brave captain Uyrang=EA Bol=EDvar Soares Nogueira de
Hollanda Lima, himself a witness of UFO manifestations, who had
the courage to thoroughly register the events as they occurred.
=93We were constantly surprised by the sights of those objects,
which were certainly being intelligently controlled and knew
that we were there, studying them=94, Hollanda declared to this
author, when he was interviewed in 1997.

These two incidents =96 definitely the most notorious cases in
Brazilian Ufology =96 are but a few examples of how complex the
UFO manifestation is in our country and of the gravity it
represents. In both occasions, UFO researchers raised their
voices, went public about it and pressured the government,
accusing it either of omitting the facts or covering up the
reality. And they showed their revolt at the silence =96 including
this author. With the present campaign, UFO, Freedom of
Information Now, we are after no fights or arguments; we are
seriously and respectfully seeking open recognition and
acknowledgment of the UFO issue, as well as the alien presence
in our world.

________







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                         Re: Bible Code II - Conway

From: Richard Conway <ranger_conway.nul>
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 06:30:06 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 12:12:00 -0400
Subject: Re: Bible Code II - Conway


>From: Ray Dickenson <editor.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 23:07:25 +0100
>Subject: Re: Bible Code II

>Hello Eleanor

>Yes, I agree that many a headline "refutation" when
>analyzed is merely a 'scientist' abusing his
>position/ qualifications to demand that the status
>quo be maintained. Like "it is... because I say so!"

>In this case we're dealing with "hard statistics" of
>large numbers (which I personally find to be
>counter-intuitive anyway).

>Boiling down paper from Brendan McKay and Friends:

>http://cs.anu.edu.au/~bdm/dilugim/torah.html

>Check out the refutation of the refutation here
>http://www.torahcodes.co.il/debate1.htm

>and without the pure statistical part, it seems that
>we're looking at four factors

>1) genuineness of TEXT (including spelling choices)
>2) choice of area of TEXT
>3) validity of ALGORITHMS (routines run on text)
>4) tightness of ALGORITHMS

McKay did end up quite bitter in the end and accused
them of outright deceit :)

>If all are decided blind, in advance, and then
>a "decode" is run: then the results
>are 'significant' to whatever degree. But, as
>Brendan makes clear, if any are tweaked (in any way)
>to "improve" a second run: then those second results
>are _not_ significant.

>And a major thrust of Brendan's paper (but by no
>means all of  its strength) is that it seems _all_
>those factors had to be repeatedly tweaked at
>different times to get near the
>published "revealings".

>[BTW that's why mDNA back-tracing sometimes seems a
>little flaky - the algorithms have to be tweaked,
>like Relativity math, to get sensible results]

>Brendan has added a reference to Bible Code II but
>haven't had chance to read it yet (ISP collapse
>today so sorry for delay).

While McKay et al made some good points and put together some
serious issues of contention over the original equidistant
letter skips in Genesis experiment, this in no way disproves the
bible code it just rightly points out problems in the method. It
seems, however, that the critics made just as many mistakes (if
not more) in their counter-attacks than they propose the
researchers made in their original experiment (see above URL).

>BTW again - Terry W. Colvin just sent in a fortean
>note that "Brendan was winner of the Australian
>Skeptics Eureka Prize for Critical Thinking in 2003
>($10,000)" - but don't let that influence our
>thinking.

Well, Prof Eli Rips is one of the leading authorities at group
theory in the world. This just shows that both groups of
scientists have excellent qualifications.


All the best,

Richard






   UFO UpDates
   A mailing list for the study of UFO-related phenomena
   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   Apr > Apr 22

                    Re: Mars Rover Anomalies - Stevenson

From: Colin Stevenson <colsweb.nul>
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 16:51:05 +0100
Fwd Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 12:13:31 -0400
Subject: Re: Mars Rover Anomalies - Stevenson


>From: John Scheldroup <jschel.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 13:20:16 -0500
>Subject: Mars Rover Anomalies

>Did Mars Rover take picture of UFO well lets see?

>http://www.rense.com/general51/curious.htm

>http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/2/n/094/2N134687551ESF2700P1962L0M1.
HTML

>I have found that for photo enhancement work, that a 24 bit
>bitmap is best. What I did was take the NASA jpeg photo and
>format to an bitmap then enhancement for resolution using Ulead
>photo systems. I converted it back to jpeg and placed it in a
>folder at my website.

>The three composite bitmaps are much clearer and less grainy
>then the jpeg seen below, and is a reflection of their file size
>to.

>2.01 mb
>663  kb
>232  kb

>2N134_1E.JPG --- 153 k

>http://home.centurytel.net/cty90143/jpeg/marsrover/2N134_1E.JPG

>Well List what do you think?


Well John and listers

it seems to be the natural predator of the Mars Bunny as are
these from the same source ( never mentioned );

http://www.colsweb.com/marsu.jpg
http://www.colsweb.com/martiantriangle2.jpg
http://www.colsweb.com/marstrianglelanding.jpg
http://www.colsweb.com/marspool5.jpg

all short downloads.

only to mention a few from which the source disappeared
mysteriously.

Thanks for the additional one. Good work.

kind regards
col
http://www.colsweb.com

"Keep to the straight and norrow track in life
but don't get run over by the Trains"
- Late Geoffrey Stevenson 1990's







   UFO UpDates
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   'Its All Here In Black & White'
   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   Apr > Apr 22

                           Filers Files #18 - 2004

From: George A. Filer <Majorstar.nul>
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 14:32:49 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 12:20:30 -0400
Subject: Filers Files #18 - 2004



Filers Files #18 - 2004
Skywatch Investigations
George A. Filer
Director MUFON Eastern

April 21, 2004, Webmaster: Chuck Warren

If photos don't show up in email, try:

www.georgefiler.com/
Weekly files/Views


Many Dwelling Places

This weeks files review: ISS Astronauts See Possible UFO, Mars
Face Compares with Egyptian Headdress, Connecticut =96 Flying
Triangle, Pennsylvania =96 Strange Lights, North Carolina - White
Silvery Cigar, Florida =96 UFO Sighting, USAF Flying Saucer?,
Wisconsin =96 Bright Light, Ohio =96 UFO or Tanker, Indiana =96 Disc,
Tennessee =96 Arrowhead UFO, Minnesota =96 Canadian Geese?, Iowa =96
Egg, Alabama =96 Plane Hits Unidentified Object, Texas =96 Disks,
California =96UFO Photographed, Canada =96Fast Moving Lights, and
England =96 Cross.

ISS Astronauts See Possible UFO

Maria Thome writes from Brazil, "I have something very
interesting for you." Last year, when astronaut ED LU was on the
ISS on his mission with Yuri Malenchenko, he said the following:
"When flying on the ISS over the south of Australia, after the
sun had just set and when Mars was rising up, through the
atmosphere, he flew eastwards and turned his attention to
watching the =91aurora=92, when suddenly he SAW a "flash of light"
amidst the auroral curtains." It was a "small point" brighter
than a typical star. It lasted about 2 seconds and then he saw
another flash and then another, all together maybe 5 or 6
flashes over a period of a minute or two. He said, "He never
before heard about those flashes coming from auroras... And he
later ruled out some explanations, but found nothing that could
explain what those "flashes" were?"... So he was left (he and
his Russian companion) with a mystery up to now...Don't you
think, he really SAW a UFO? Cosmic Greetings and Peace in all
frontiers! Thanks to: Maria Thome in Brazil

Jesus said, "In my Father's house are many dwelling places; if
it were not so, I would have told you, for I go to prepare a
place for you." John 14:2

Mars Face Comparison with Egyptian Headdress

Several people have noticed that some faces on Mars wear tall
head dress or hats that are similar to Egyptian, Assyrian, Inca,
or Mesopotamian head wear. David Grey sent this JPL image. Face
on the edge of Mar's Bonneville Crater with head dress Headdress
is similar to Egypt's god King Narmer 3050 B.C. on slate
palette.

This JPL image taken from satellite shows similar headgear.
Thanks to Dr.Tom Van Flandern Other comparisons are at:

http://www.vantasticdetail.com/MarsFaceComparison.html

Connecticut =96 Flying Triangle

ENFIELD - Coming out of the house last night, at 8 PM, on April
5, 2004, my right eye quickly caught a light, or lights off to
the right. I looked up and saw a craft of some kind, so I
quickly grabbed my camcorder that happened to be on my front
seat. From this point on I have on video, its not the best, I
tried to zoom in and out, and the camera didn=92t like that in
darkness. I took a couple of street lights but the craft has
three triangle lights, with one in the center flashing. It was
coming towards me over the homes. I followed it with the camera
until it got to the end of the street, when I noticed another
craft coming from the opposite way traveling towards us. The
two met at the end of the street.

This other craft was flashing a white light and had stationary
lights surrounding it just like the one I saw up close. I got
into my truck to go look for them, but they had gone, but above
the old town pool park, I saw both of them, hovering, almost
fully cloaked. One wasn=92t all the way cloaked, it's hard to
explain, but to the right of the craft, it was lit up, just a
little, and its lights were lower, then stronger. It was doing
something while the other stayed stationary to its left. Finally
the light went out, and both of them were cloaked, but each of
the craft had one little light at each end, as if it was a
distant star far off. The lights were on each side, with a
certain distance apart, the other craft had the same lights
barely visible, and they hovered just a little distance from the
other.

The one on the left crossed over to the right moving towards me,
and it starts to follow me as I am walking. I get inside my
truck as it leaves, still cloaked.

I was roughly 35 yards away as I filmed the smaller craft that
was a little smaller than a small airplane, that had three
lights, one in the center, while the fourth was flashing a white
light. A light was also being beamed out towards the other
side. The craft went at a good pace; it traveled with one light
as a leading part of the craft while the other two lights were
on the sides. There was no sound. In the video, it goes behind
telephone poles and phone lines. Thanks to Peter Davenport
UFOcenter


Pennsylvania =96 Strange Lights

WILLIAMSPORT - Lights high in the sky, too high to be radio
tower lights, hovering for long time at 6:40 PM, on April 5,
2004. They were flickering red, blue, and bright white
background. Thanks to Peter Davenport UFOcenter


North Carolina - White Silvery Cigar

LINCOLNTON =96 The witness saw a white silvery cigar shaped UFO at
an estimated altitude of 15,000 feet, traveling at a high rate
of speed heading due east at 6:40 PM, on April 1, 2004. Five
minutes later a second object was seen traveling in the same
direction and attitude. There were other aircraft in the same
area and following the flight path for landing in Charlotte.
There was no reflection off any of the aircraft and nothing out
of the ordinary!! Both objects crossed the sky in less than a
minutes time. These objects left no vapor trails and no noise
was noticed. I am an aviation professional and have not
experienced or seen anything that travels at this rate of speed
or constructed in this cigar shape pattern. UFOcenter

MOCKSVILLE - A bright light with a yellowish gold tint hovered
over the tree line for a few minutes on April 4, 2004. The light
went out at 11:20 PM, after a few minutes. Numerous planes were
flying around the area at the time. This is the third time I
have seen these lights in the last four months, but on these
dates the lights did not go out, they would just move
horizontally, stop, move forward, stop, move vertical, etc.
There is never any sound and the light is always consistent in
strength, never dimming until this event when it just "cut off".
Thanks to Peter Davenport UFOcenter


Florida =96 UFO sighting

LANTANA - I was hoping you would be able to help me. I am not
including my name for I which to remain anonymous however I
would appreciate it immensely if you would be able to
investigate a sighting I observed the other night. Besides
myself there were six others who witnessed it. They included
neighbors as well as two family members.

On Thursday, April 15, 2004, at 8:40 PM, We saw a circular
object with flames bursting behind it which hovered low in the
sky then shot up. I cannot say how fast it was going. It felt
like it was going very slow which seemed odd. The peculiar thing
it did not stay straight on a course but would zig zag back and
forth. Finally, it just disappeared into the northeastern sky.
Please contact me with any information regarding this sighting.
Thanks to FL 33462


USAF Flying Saucer?

TAMPA - Jack Picket claims to have seen four flying saucers at
Mac Dill Air Force Base in 1967. The craft had a high tail and
were marked with X-perimental and were being destroyed in the
salvage yard at Mac Dill AFB. I visited Mac Dill and Avon Park
Air Force Bases and talked to numerous officers and enlisted men
stationed there during this time period. None had seen any
flying saucers at these bases. Below is an illustration of two
the four disk aircraft Jack saw. This excellent illustration is
by Michael H. Schratt, Chuck Biddlecom and Gino Marcomini. We
are looking for anyone who can verify or refute the story. The
website www.usafflyingsaucers.com at gives details.


Wisconsin =96 Bright Light

HAZEL GREEN/BENTON - I was on my way to pick up my 14 year old
from work at a supper club at 6:40 PM, on April 1, 2004. I saw
a very low bright light in the sky that was not moving. As I got
closer, I noticed a bright red light but it was not flashing. I
was right underneath it, but I was too afraid to stop and get
out of my vehicle as I was alone at this point. I picked up my
daughter and I went back the same way, my daughter looked off to
the north and said "What is that"? There it was again, even
lower in the sky, and moving. So I started to follow it
northwest, but we lost it. We wondered if it could have been a
small aircraft that had to make an emergency landing. Nothing
was ever reported about an aircraft landing in the area. It was
very low, and very bright.

MILWAUKEE =96 Nicolas writes, "I=92m a 32 year old male who has an
interesting story from almost 25 years ago to tell you." I was a
student at Good Hope School and on the day it happened I was
there. A terrible "tornado" storm (the teacher blamed it on
that) hit Milwaukee. But I swear no tornado in the urban area
could have kicked up this much dust. We were in the duck and
cover position for almost a half hour. In the middle of the
total blackout, a girl named Renee Jones pointed at the clock.
She had gotten up out of the duck and cover position and
exclaimed" look its midnight!" as the clock said 12 PM. The sky
was completely dark for at least a half hour. There was no sound
and the closest tornado, a real rarity in the city, was 10 miles
away. It is my contention that this was a very large space ship
that blocked out the sun completely. I want to go for a ride! I
wish it would come back. Sincerely Nicholas Jay Boyes


Ohio =96 UFO or Tanker

George Ritter writes, "Well, weird just keeps getting weirder
here five miles west of Fostoria. On the 15th of April my friend
Allan August came over to cut some trees. We were working when I
turned around and saw what appeared to be an Air Force tanker
complete with retracted boom with the small V shaped wings on
the end. I thought it might be in trouble flying at only about
five hundred feet in altitude. I said "Hey Augie take a look at
this, it has four engines!" It was painted slate grey with no
markings or windows or port holes. What was so amazing, this
aircraft was going so slow, it wasn't going fast enough to stay
aloft and was totally silent. There was no exhaust that we could
see. Myself and Allan are both combat veterans and know what it
sounds like when a jet comes over your position that low. I
called the Sheriff's office and the local airport to see if
anyone else had reported the craft, the deputy checked his log
for the 15th from noon until 3 PM and said nothing was reported
during that time and the airport said they had no traffic at all
of that kind. Thanks to George Ritter


Indiana - Disc

MOORSVILLE - I was traveling south on state highway 67 south,
just north of town when a silver disk about 10-12 feet in
diameter at about 300 feet passed over my RAV4 at 6:40 PM, on
April 1, 2004. It was moving from west to east at about (est.
100mph) at around a 3-5 degree upward angle. It looked to be
only about 3-4 feet thick, no lights, no wings, no sound, and no
smoke. Thanks to Peter Davenport UFOcenter


Tennessee =96 Arrowhead UFO

NEWPORT - It was shaped somewhat like an arrowhead flying
backwards, with what looked to be a head or knob on the front on
April 5, 2004, at 11 PM. It didn't look mechanical, it was more
like some kind of animal. It did not have extended wings like a
bird of any kind, but seemed to have some sort of stubby wings
which were part of the body, like a flying squirrel or some type
of bat. They protruded out near the head, and tapered back to a
point at the rear. The creature appeared to be around three feet
from head to tail, & a little over 2 ft. wide at the shoulders.
It was moving very fast in a straight line at an altitude of
approx. 150 ft. I saw no method of propulsion such as wing
movement. It just seemed to be gliding, but at a high rate of
speed. It maintained level flight moving west where I eventually
lost sight of it. Other details were a light brown color along
the sides of the wings, like skin, with a dark body color,
possibly dark brown or black. Thanks to Peter Davenport
UFOcenter


Minnesota =96 Canadian Geese?

ST. PAUL =96 The witnesses live in a high rise in downtown and
about 8:30 PM on April 1, 2004, they went out on their balcony
to have a cigarette. The witness states, "My wife noticed a
flying =91V=92 formation heading due south." She pointed it out to
me and we stared at it. Our initial thought was that it was a
UFO, but as we observed for about three minutes we noticed that
the formation metamorphosed into a sloppy looking "W." Then we
saw a piece of it break off and go to the other side forming a
lopsided "V" formation again. There was a cloud formation to the
southeast that was slightly illuminated on the top as well.

My wife and I saw the exact same thing over downtown St. Paul,
March 31, 2004, heading south around 8:30 PM. There is a large
Canadian goose population around here. Typically we can see
flocks flying south near the end of the evening. Based on our
observation we thought that the "V" was a flock of geese flying
at a higher than normal elevation and they were catching the
last rays of light on their underbellies rather than a UFO.
Again, we could be wrong. I have seen unexplained sights in the
sky before but this was the first time I had ever seen an
illuminated flying "V." In this particular instance though, I
think that the sight we saw probably had a natural explanation.
Thanks to Brian Vike, Director CANADA HBCC Research


Iowa - Egg

PERRY - it was really big and it was glowing neon green when it
stopped just above the Mc Creary Recreation Center on April 1,
2004, at 12:27 PM. Then, it started to spin making a soft pitch
whine. Then, it started changing shapes and it started turning
orange then red then back to green then after a few hours of
that it just stopped and it almost was like it was going to fall
out of the sky when it took off leaving a blue trail of
something in the air. The craft turned white then made a sound
somewhat like a gunshot being fired from a 12 gauge then it
disappeared. Later, my friend and I went over there and we found
this strange metal book but it won't open and it has strange
writing on it. Thanks to Peter Davenport UFOcenter


Alabama =96 Plane Hits Unidentified Object

MOBILE REGISTER, staff Reporter Joe Danborn writes, "Federal
investigators have determined that a single-engine delivery
plane that crashed into Big Bateau Bay on Oct. 23, 2002, slammed
into something 3,000 feet above the Mobile-Tensaw Delta moments
earlier - they're just not sure what it was. The highly unusual
National Transportation Safety Board account points to
unidentified red marks on the severely damaged nose and front
belly of the plane as evidence that it hit another object in the
air. The crash killed 54-year-old pilot Thomas J. Preziose of
Mobile minutes after he took off from Downtown Airport. From Our
Advertiser  Agency officials "don't know of any other accident
that we have in our files that states 'collision with an unknown
object,'" said Keith Holloway, a spokesman for the NTSB, which
investigates all domestic air accidents.  "I've never seen a
report like that," said Don Godwin, a veteran pilot and chief
executive officer of Mid-Atlantic Freight, which owned the
plane.  "And it's very troubling to have something like this
happen and not know what caused it. I know the family's upset,
and understandably upset.

It's just a great thing that this kind of thing didn't happen to
an airliner with a bunch of people on it." The report also notes
that malfunctioning radar recording equipment hampered efforts
to determine the exact cause of the accident. Moreover, an air
traffic controller at Mobile Regional Airport apparently gave
incorrect positions to Preziose about the location of a DC-10 in
the area, according to the recently released report, officially
called a finding of facts. A Federal Aviation Administration
official at Mobile Regional Airport said Tuesday afternoon he
wasn't aware of any equipment malfunctions. He deferred further
comment to officials who had left for the day. The five-page
report states that the FedEx DC-10 doesn't appear to have been
involved in the collision; investigators examined it the day
after the crash and found it unscathed. That lack of damage,
however, deepens the mystery as to what happened to Preziose's
Cessna 208B Cargomaster.  Experienced pilot:

Preziose was a veteran pilot for the New York City Police
Department and had been an instructor on the Cessna 208 for the
Pan Am Flight Academy in Memphis, according to the report. He
had worked for several months for Mid-Atlantic Freight, the
company contracting with DHL, and had flown the same route
numerous times. An autopsy revealed no drugs or alcohol in his
system. The plane - which had passed a routine FAA inspection a
few days earlier, the report states - disappeared from radar
about 15 minutes of taking off from Mobile Downtown Airport at
Brookley around 7:30 p.m. Flying under contract for the delivery
company DHL Worldwide Express, it was bound for Montgomery
bearing 420 pounds of business documents.  About 10 minutes
after takeoff, Preziose, using the call sign "Night Ship 282,"
switched from talking to the control tower at Brookley to the
FAA tower at Mobile Regional Airport, a standard procedure,
according to Bay Haas, executive director of the Mobile Airport
Authority. His agency maintains and staffs the Brookley tower,
while the FAA operates the Mobile Regional tower, he said.  A
DC-10 ahead: As Preziose climbed northeast through the overcast
sky, relying on instruments to take him to his cruising altitude
of 3,000 feet, the Mobile Regional controller alerted him to the
presence of the DC-10, which was seven miles straight in front
of him, flying at 4,000 feet and inbound for Brookley, according
to a transcript of the chatter contained in the report. Preziose
acknowledged it. A minute later, the controller told Preziose
the DC-10, now just two miles from the Cessna, had crossed the
smaller plane's path and remained at 4,000 feet. "Roger, I got
him above me right now," Preziose replied, apparently confirming
he saw the FedEx plane.

Seconds later, the report states, he came back on the air: "I
needed to deviate, I needed to deviate, I needed to deviate, I
needed....."  A commercial frog hunter in an airboat assisting
Alabama Marine Police and Coast Guard crews found the wreckage
around midnight, resting in shallow water, about 1 miles north
of the Mobile Bay Causeway. The wings were shattered, and most
of the front of the plane was little more than fragments. "The
impact of that collision disintegrated that airplane before it
hit the water out there," Godwin said.  Engine split in half:
The Pratt & Whitney engine block was split in two, the report
states. Godwin called that a strong indicator of a violent
impact. "That's a big deal. That airplane could fall out of the
sky and hit concrete and it's unlikely it would've broken the
engine in half like that." The NTSB report details the agency's
attempts to find the source of the red marks on the Cessna.
Investigators sent fragments with the markings to Wright
Patterson Air Force Base in Ohio for testing.

The markings were compared to other materials from the plane,
including red paint and a red cargo bag. The tests also examined
paint from an unmanned aerial vehicle, apparently to determine
whether the Cessna had struck a military drone. Similar tests
were performed by the U.S. Aircraft Insurance Group - which took
custody of the wreckage in February - with similar results, the
report states.

"The main result from the investigation is that the material in
the red streaks on the skin of the accident airplane was
significantly different from the other materials that were
examined for comparison," the report states.  Additionally,
investigators were unable to identify the source of "a small
piece of what appeared to be black anodized aluminum, which was
found embedded in the left wing" near the fuselage, the report
states.  "There's definitely no chance that that particular
incident involved one of our drones," said 1st Lt. Sage Park, a
spokeswoman for the 53rd Wing, which operates unmanned airplanes
out of Tyndall Air Force Base in the Florida Panhandle.  Those
drones do not fly as far west as the Mobile area, she said. A
spokeswoman at Eglin Air Force Base, farther west in the
Panhandle, said squadrons there also generally do their testing
over the Gulf of Mexico and do not venture into airspace near
Mobile. Neither of the Air Force officials nor a spokesman at
Naval Air Station Pensacola could immediately confirm whether
units based there were conducting aircraft or missile tests when
the Cessna crashed, although all said it was unlikely for
various reasons.  The Navy spokesman said the Pensacola station
has radar that reaches Mobile, although it is generally
monitored for activity in the Gulf rather than near Mobile.

The accident report does not indicate whether investigators
sought radar data from any of the military installations. Based
on the limited radar information they could find, investigators
concluded the Cessna never crossed paths with the DC-10,
contrary to what the air traffic controller told Preziose, the
report states.  Greg Breedlove, a lawyer with the Mobile firm
Cunningham Bounds, said his firm has been retained by Preziose's
family and is examining several possibilities, including that
the Cessna simply got caught in turbulence caused by the FedEx
plane.  Another possibility?: Sam Houston, resident agent in
charge of the Drug Enforcement Administration office in Mobile,
said his agency had no information about the accident, although
he said he could not rule out the possibility that a drug
smuggling plane might have struck the Cessna.  "There is active
drug smuggling in Alabama, yes, by air," he said.  Godwin, the
Mid-Atlantic Freight executive, said it was "very hard to
believe that in this United States, with terrorism being what it
is, that there's no record of any aircraft or object moving in
our space out there. You'd think somebody somewhere has a record
of that collision."  NTSB investigators should issue their final
analysis on the accident within a few months, said Holloway, the
spokesman.  On the Web: NTSB Aviation Accident Synopses:
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/Month.asp The Birmingham News | The
Huntsville Times | Mobile Register =A92004 al.com.

Editor's Note: The fact the leading edge of the Cessna had and
the engine block split in two by the violent impact infers the
collision occurred with a high speed craft. The black aluminum
imbedded in the wing was sent to Wright Paterson AFB for
analysis suggests UFO involvement. Videos from the space shuttle
has shown high speed UFOs moving along the Gulf Coast corridor
on a regular basis. There have been other mysteries surrounding
similar midair crashes.


Texas - Disk

LEAGUE CITY =96 The witness thought they were birds at first
buzzing around the clear sky on April 1, 2004, at 12:27 PM. But
then they started to make these weird formations and he saw some
reflection, that he knew was metal. Four made a triangle and
then there were five and then six. The witness explains, "They
disappeared and then came back, and as they moved I saw more and
more 20, then 50 then about 100. They looked like white
fireworks in the sky. They would appear and then disappear in
two different sets. A passenger plane flew into the direction of
the lights and then they were gone. UFOcenter

COLLEGE STATION - We saw 6 dots in the sky directly above, they
were all close to each other, and moved to the right slowly
across the sky at 11 PM, on April 7, 2004. They began moving
apart, then back together. After about 8 sec. they faded out.
Both of us saw the entire event. UFOcenter

CORPUS CHRISTI - The triangle would fly at fast speeds then it
would stop and shine a bright blue beam down on houses at 12:30
PM, on April 4, 2004. It did this about five times then it
soared up in the sky and vanished. Thanks to Peter Davenport
UFOcenter


California =96UFO Photographed

MODESTO - R. David Anderson writes, "I greatly appreciate your
featuring the UFO pictures on Filer's Files #16. I have color
enhanced these recent photos and got some interesting results. I
used the AOL editing controls to get this effect. The details of
the UFO's become more discernible, the picture looks like there
is an energy field around it and actual figures imbedded within
that field.

March 27, 2004 photo of UFO's. by R. David Anderson


Canada =96 Orange and Fast Moving Lights

WILLIAMS LAKE, BRITISH COLUMBIA =96 On April 10, 2004, at 11:30
p.m. Brian Vike took a call from a witness who reported seeing a
large orange shaped object sitting stationary at a distance and
close to the tops of the trees. The object was visible for
approximately a minute, it then broke into two orange colored
lights and disappeared very quickly. The object was seen in the
southwest. No sudden movements were noted, no sound was heard.
There were also clear skies that night.

ACTON, ONTARIO - My fiancee and I wrote previously about a
sighting on April 9, 2004. This was the sighting of multiple
lights, traveling at a fast speed with no flashing lights or
sound. Well, since that sighting we have continued to see these
odd lights in the sky, around 9:20 p.m. to 9:50 p.m. On the
second sighting, myself and our neighbor spotted 25-30 of these
lights in the shape of a 'V'.  They were moving north at high
altitude. Again, there were no flashing lights and there was no
sound.

The third sighting took place on April 15, 2004. There were
three witnesses: Myself, my fiancee, and our neighbor. At 9:29
p.m. =96 we saw 7 lights in a perfect 'V' shape that seemed very
distant for about 15 seconds. Less then a minute later, five
lights in a different pattern were seen very distant. At 9:44
p.m. three lights were spotted, and was more distinctive and
brighter. These lights seemed to be lower to the ground than the
first two sightings. The lights lasted about 20 seconds. They
were the size of a pinky fingernail. Then at 9:49 p.m.=96 four
lights, lower to the ground were seen that were the size of
Joe's thumb fingernail. These lights lasted about 19 seconds.
There was no sound, during any of the sightings and all were
moving at a quick speed.

There were 3 separate sightings on April 16th, 2004, the first
at 9:20 p.m. =96 were 7 lights, that lasted 16 seconds was spotted
just west of the Big Dipper heading north in an unorganized 'V'
shape. At 9:25 p.m. - 2 lights, lasted 17 seconds that were
further west of the Big Dipper. The left light was ahead of the
right light but they moved across the sky, ended up side-by-
 side, and disappeared into the distant with the right light now
leading. At 9:27 p.m - seven lights, that lasted 20 seconds were
in an unorganized 'V' shape. This sighting was visible in the
distance and not right above us, much harder to spot.

We have been seeing them on a regular basis, and are very
curious about what we are observing.  Thanks to Brian Vike,
Director CANADA HBCC Research


England - Cross wavering and no sound

LONDON - When I first saw it, it was an extremely bright light
that changed to another extremely bright colored light, coming
towards my direction at 6:40 PM, on April 1, 2004. Then suddenly
the bright light stopped and as it passed overhead the lights
switched into a cross formation. What I found strange was that
even though it might have been high in the sky there was no
sound off it and it wavered twice slightly as it passed
overhead. It continued in the same direction till I lost sight
of it. Because I live near Heathrow airport I see aircraft every
day but this was not similar to anything I have ever seen
before. Thanks to Peter Davenport UFOcenter


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   Apr > Apr 22

              Re: 'Other Folk' Or 'Parallel Race' Theme - Clark

From: Jerome Clark <jkclark.nul>
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 13:46:58 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 12:21:54 -0400
Subject: Re: 'Other Folk' Or 'Parallel Race' Theme - Clark


>From: Terry W. Colvin <fortean1.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 19:22:51 -0700
>Subject: 'Other Folk' Or 'Parallel Race' Theme

>Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 16:19:43 -0700
>From: "T. Peter Park" <tpeterpark.nul>
> To: forteana.nul
>Subj: [forteana] "Other Folk" or "Parallel Race" theme

>With respect to fairies and aliens, I'm particularly intrigued
>by mixed or in-between cases, where witnesses have claimed to
>have encountered beings with both fairy and space-alien aspects.
>A good example of such an ambiguous or borderline creature is
>the frog-eyed 3-foot-tall humanoid in a fairy or leprechaun
>costume from an egg-shaped UFO encountered by John Trasco of
>Everittstown, NJ, on the evening of November 6th, 1957. Trasco
>went outside at dusk to feed his dog and saw a brilliant egg-
>shaped object hovering in front of his barn. He was confronted
>by a being 3 feet tall with a "putty-colored face" with a nose,
>chin, and "large frog-like eyes" wearing a green suit with
>shiny buttons, a green tam-o-shanter-like cap, and gloves with a
>shiny object at the tip of each finger. The dwarf said, in
>broken English, "we are peaceful people, we only want your dog."
>The frightened but angry Trasco retorted, "Get the hell out of
>here." The being then ran away, and a moment later his machine
>took off straight up.

I was once told by a credible source that this story is known to
be a hoax. It's certainly an atypical CE3, and the item about
the tam-o-shanter strikes me as a joker's detail. I was told
that Jules St. Germain, an active member of the 1950s-era
Civilian Saucer Intelligence (associated with such luminaries as
Isabel Davis, Ted Bloecher, and Alexander Mebane), went to the
farm to see the Trascos. The visit startled and unsettled them,
and at one point they went to another room, from which he
overheard them talking anxiously about whether they were going
to get into trouble for making up the story.

If anybody knows more than this - at least a secondhand account
- I hope he or she posts the details here. I have to say that,
simply on its face, I have a pretty hard time taking the tale
seriously.


Jerry Clark








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                          Secrecy News -- 04/21/04

From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood.nul>
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 16:19:11 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 12:24:16 -0400
Subject: Secrecy News -- 04/21/04


SECRECY NEWS
from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy
Volume 2004, Issue No. 38
April 21, 2004


**      OVERCOMING SECRECY AT THE CONGRESSIONAL RESEARCH SERVICE
**      THE POLICE FUNCTION IN PEACEKEEPING OPERATIONS (CRS)
**      FOREIGN BALLISTIC AND CRUISE MISSILE PROGRAMS (CRS)
**      US NUCLEAR WEAPONS POLICY AND FORCE STRUCTURE (CRS)
**      LA TIMES UNCOVERS THE ROOTS OF US V. REYNOLDS
**      DOMESTIC INTELLIGENCE AND CIVIL LIBERTIES
**      COORDINATING US COUNTERTERRORISM ANALYSIS
**      SECURITY CLEARANCE RECIPROCITY FALLS SHORT


OVERCOMING SECRECY AT THE CONGRESSIONAL RESEARCH SERVICE

Despite the stubborn opposition of some government officials,
public access to reports of the Congressional Research Service
(CRS) continues to grow.

CRS reports were identified as one of the "ten most wanted"
categories of government documents that should be -- but are not
-- readily available to the public, according to a recent survey
by the new coalition OpenTheGovernment.org.

But current congressional leaders like Rep. Bob Ney (R-OH) of
the House Committee on House Administration actively oppose
allowing direct public access to CRS reports. A formal change to
ease the restrictions on CRS publication policy will probably
have to await the arrival of a new and different Congress that
is more committed to openness and accountability.

In the meantime, it is possible to circumvent and to partially
defeat the congressional secrecy policy.  Several recent CRS
reports, now made available for the first time online, are noted
below.

The fact that Congress evidently does not want Americans to read
these reports gives them a certain pizzazz, and may actually
attract new readers to these sober policy analyses.


THE POLICE FUNCTION IN PEACEKEEPING OPERATIONS (CRS)

"One of the most crucial and difficult tasks in peacekeeping and
related stability operations is creating a secure and stable
environment, both for the foreign peacekeepers and for the
indigenous population."

The alarming security situation in Iraq illustrates the point.

The possibility of establishing a deployable United Nations
civilian police corps to support international peacekeeping
operations, the available alternatives, and the challenges
involved were examined at length in a recently updated
Congressional Research Service report.

See "Policing in Peacekeeping and Related Stability Operations:
Problems and Proposed Solutions," March 30, 2004 (58 pages):

http://www.fas.org/man/crs/RL32321.pdf


FOREIGN BALLISTIC AND CRUISE MISSILE PROGRAMS (CRS)

A "current inventory of ballistic and cruise missiles throughout
the world and [their] implications for U.S. national security
policy" are the subject of another newly updated Congressional
Research Service report, based on open sources.

See "Missile Survey: Ballistic and Cruise Missiles of Foreign
Countries," March 5, 2004 (42 pages):
http://www.fas.org/spp/starwars/crs/RL30427.pdf


US NUCLEAR WEAPONS POLICY AND FORCE STRUCTURE (CRS)

CRS provides an overview of U.S. nuclear weapons policy, force
structure and infrastructure in a report that highlights "areas
of change and areas of continuity."

See "U.S. Nuclear Weapons: Changes in Policy and Force
Structure," updated February 23, 2004 (50 pages):

http://www.fas.org/spp/starwars/crs/RL31623.pdf


LA TIMES UNCOVERS THE ROOTS OF US V. REYNOLDS

An extraordinary two-part series in the Los Angeles Times this
week examined the questionable roots of the 1953 Supreme Court
decision United States v. Reynolds, in which the Court affirmed
the "state secrets privilege" and permitted the government to
withhold documents regarding a 1948 aircraft crash.

The Court at the time accepted without challenge the
government's argument that disclosure of the documents would
place "state secrets" in jeopardy. But following
declassification of those records 50 years later, no such
secrets could be identified. The original government case was
fraudulent, the plaintiffs now argue.

In his LA Times series, virtuoso reporter Barry Siegel turned
over every relevant rock and interviewed every relevant
participant in an effort to understand their perspectives and
experiences. He produced an exceptional piece of work that is
both probing and empathetic.

See "The Secret of the B29" by Barry Siegel, Los Angeles Times,
April 18 and 19, with supporting documents, here:
http://latimes.com/b29

It is not strictly correct to say that the 1953 Reynolds case
"spawned" the state secrets privilege, as the Los Angeles Times
editorialized today. (Secrecy News made a similar mistaken
assertion a few months ago.) The privilege existed long before
it came before the Supreme Court.

Nor would the past, current or future application of the state
secrets privilege be affected should it turn out, as it now
appears, that the 1953 Reynolds decision was based on false
premises.

But what should be called into question is the expanding
doctrine of judicial deference, under which judges rely
uncritically on the untested assertions of government witnesses.
That is where the Reynolds Court went astray.

Selected case files from the continuing dispute over the 1953
Reynolds ruling, which is now being litigated in the eastern
district of Pennsylvania, may be found here:
http://www.fas.org/sgp/jud/index.html#reynolds


DOMESTIC INTELLIGENCE AND CIVIL LIBERTIES

The problem of information sharing between the CIA and the FBI,
and the so-called "wall" between law enforcement and
intelligence, are analyzed by Kate Martin of the Center for
National Security Studies in a new journal article.

"The 'wall' metaphor is shorthand for the recognition that
separate authorities govern law enforcement and foreign
intelligence investigations against Americans. Those
authorities, written to prevent political spying by the FBI and
CIA, always recognized that international terrorism was both a
law enforcement and intelligence matter and provided for sharing
information between the two communities.  The 9/11 failures to
share information cannot be laid at the feet of the law."

"While better information and analysis are needed to fight
terrorism, there is reason to fear that transforming domestic
counterterrorism primarily into an intelligence matter is
unlikely to appreciably increase security, but will seriously
threaten civil liberties."

Instead of a new domestic intelligence agency, she proposes "an
alternative approach that will serve to obtain the intelligence
necessary to prevent catastrophic attacks without compromising
civil liberties."

See "Domestic Intelligence and Civil Liberties" by Kate Martin,
SAIS Review, Winter-Spring 2004:

http://www.saisreview.org/PDF/24.1martin.pdf


COORDINATING US COUNTERTERRORISM ANALYSIS

The division of responsibility among several agencies involved
in analyzing the threat of terrorism is set forth in an April 13
letter to Congress.

The Terrorist Threat Integration Center (TTIC) "has the primary
responsibility in the [US Government] for terrorism analysis
(except information relating solely to purely domestic
terrorism) and is responsible for the day-to-day terrorism
analysis provided to the President and other senior
policymakers."

"We presume that all terrorism information has a link to
international terrorism unless determined otherwise," the letter
stated.

The letter responded to inquiries last year from Senators Susan
M. Collins and Carl Levin. It was signed by Tom Ridge (DHS),
Robert S. Mueller (FBI), George Tenet (DCI), and John O. Brennan
(TTIC). A copy is available here:

http://www.fas.org/irp/news/2004/04/ttic041304.pdf


SECURITY CLEARANCE RECIPROCITY FALLS SHORT

A security clearance that is granted by one government agency is
supposed to be "mutually and reciprocally accepted by all
agencies." Often, however, it is not.

"Although reciprocity policy discourages redundant investigation
and re-adjudication, more than half of respondents among
executive agencies said they routinely request prior background
investigations for review," thereby adding weeks or months to
the process of transferring personnel between agencies, a new
study performed for the Defense Department found.

Also, "There are differences of opinion among executive branch
agencies about the reliability of polygraph testing, and these
differences prevent mandating reciprocity of polygraph testing
across all federal agencies."

Willingness to accept the results of another agency's polygraph
test often varies from one intelligence agency or special access
program to another, the opposite of reciprocity. "The
imposition of repeated polygraph testing on persons moving
between [intelligence] agencies... was seen as a cost to be
borne by the individuals, and by the federal government, for
security."

The new study, published by the Defense Personnel Research
Center, provides a rare and interesting glimpse into the
peculiar workings of the personnel security clearance system.

See "Reciprocity: A Progress Report" by Katherine L. Herbig and
Peter R. Nelson, April 2004:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/othergov/reciprocity.pdf


_______________________________________________
Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the
Federation of American Scientists.

To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email tosecrecy_news-request.nul
with "subscribe" in the body of the message.

OR email your request to saftergood.nul

Secrecy News is archived at:http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html

_______________________
Steven Aftergood
Project on Government Secrecy
Federation of American Scientists
web:  www.fas.org/sgp/index.html
email: saftergood.nul
voice: (202) 454-4691








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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   Apr > Apr 22

                Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers -

From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman.nul>
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 11:44:41 -0700
Fwd Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 12:28:26 -0400
Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers -


>From: Steven Kaeser <steve.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 09:17:22 -0400
>Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers

>>From: Gildas Bourdais <gbourdais.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:18:17 +0200
>>Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers

>>>From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman.nul>
>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 09:01:59 -0700
>>>Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers

>>>But what has led you to this conclusion? I believed the
>>>cameraman, and his directions led me to an old lake bed, at the
>>>end of a canyon, where the earth and vegetation had been
>>>subjected to a scorching heat of some kind and the rocks and
>>>dirt and sand an outcroppings were covered with a strange blue,
>>>glass-like material.

>>I already explained on this List why, like almost everybody,
>>I suspect the story to be false. Why do you ask again ?

>Ed, and all,

>The area west of Socorro, NM, which is the region described in
>the "Cameraman's" statement, contains numerous dry lake beds.
>There are also numerous dirt and gravel roads leading up various
>ravines, as this was an area that was heavily mined during the
>19th and early 20th Centuries.

Steve,

While there are some waterholes and sumps, there is only one dry
lake bed in the area. It no longer holds water because of a deep
canyon at its base. But this lake bed still acts as the main
channel for water drainage in the area (roughly ninety square
miles).

I have traveled every road and dirt track in that area and have
examined air photos and several different topographical maps.
I've also walked every foot of the crash site and the
surrounding area. My wife, brother and I have walked the entire
length of the canyon and the mining region the cameraman
describes. We have visited all the sites that other searchers
have mentioned. I spent an entire afternoon with a Socorro
historian and he explained the age of the roads in the area and
the history of the ranches and when they were established and by
whom.

>Bob Shell believes that he has probably identified the "crash
>site" described, but it's not the same location you've
>identified,

Bob should visit the site I've discovered; if he'd give me clear
directions, I'd certainly visit his "crash site" and give him my
opinion.

>and I don't think the geologic anomaly you've
>identified is all that important.

I can't imagine what information you're using for this
conclusion. The site is defined by tons of cristobalite covering
rocks, outcroppings, sand and bacterial mats. This area is about
the size of three to four football fields.

There isn't a place like this anywhere on this earth.

There is absolutely no way to explain this accumulation of
cristobalite, or the huge quantity of the deposit, or how the
cameraman would know about it.

"Cristobalite occurs in igneous rocks located in areas of
volcanic activity. It rarely occurs in detectable samples. Some
localities where noticeable material has come from are:Cerro San
Cristobal, Pachua, Mexico (the origination of its name); Little
Lake, Coso Hot Springs, Inyo Co., California; the San Juan
Mountains in Colorado; Obsidian Cliff in Yellowstone National
Park, Wyoming; Mt. Lassen in Lassen Volcanic National Park in
California; and Crater Lake National Park, Klamath Co., Oregon."

http://www.minerals.net/mineral/silicate/tecto/quartz/cristobl.htm

That isn't all: there is obvious evidence of scorching heat,
from above, across most of the site.

>Bob also believes there's
>nothing more to learn about the AA "film" unless Ray Santilli
>finally opens up, and I tend to agree.

I can't be limited by Ray's reluctance to "open up", but if it
works for you, it's fine with me.

>But I'm prompted to write because of the continued reference
>to the "Cameraman's" directions and earlier references to his
>"drawing" of the crash site. I'm sure I'll be corrected if
>I'm in error, but to my knowledge the "cameraman" has provided
>no written material in his own hand.

It was my understanding that the cameraman drew the crude map
marking the location of the site. It was very general, but
accurate as far as it went. I didn't rely on this map except in
a general way. I used topographical maps and followed the
drainage patterns to find old accumulations of water and several
probable sites. I just didn't know if they would be accessible.

>The description of the site was written by Ray Santilli,
>as he alleges the "cameraman" described it.

Yes, I believe that's correct. I gleaned the cameraman's
directions from accounts by the various searchers.(Glen
Campbell, Michael H, Bob Shell and others) The information you
provided was excellent and a great help.

>The map was created
>by an artist, who listened to the description by the "cameraman"
>by telephone. He never saw the actual map that was drawn, to my
>knowledge, and researchers at the time realized how limited in
>value it was.

I didn't know that story. I thought the map was drawn by the
cameraman; it's very accurate and could not have been created by
chance. But this "map" should not be confused with the
cameraman's drawings of the site and crash scene, which is
another matter entirely.

Ed








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   Apr > Apr 22

              Re: 200 Page Brazilian Operation Saucer Available

From: John Scheldroup <jschel.nul>
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 15:57:59 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 13:06:20 -0400
Subject: Re:  200 Page Brazilian Operation Saucer Available


>From: A. J. Gevaerd  - Revista UFO <gevaerd.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 06:58:06 -0300
>Subject: 200 Page Brazilian Operation Saucer Available As PDF


>I submit to you the summarized translation of my article in
>Brazilian UFO Magazine # 98, which is part of the recently
>launched nation-wide campaign, UFOs: Freedom of Information
>Now, which has been very successfully to this point. We have
>gathered thousand of signatures to our petition.

>In my article I mention the so-called Operation Saucer, conducted
>by Brazilian military in the Amazon. Now, we have digitalized
>over 200 pages of the official UFO docs from the final report of
>such Operation Saucer and transformed them into PDF files. Soon,
>over 600 pages will be available.

>Anyone can download it (before Brazilian authorities disable the
>website) at:

>http://www.ufo.com.br/documentop.php.


Hi A. J.,

Regarding "PARTE 2 diagram". Any information to be found their
for atomic or nuclear spinning things that go around like this?

http://www.nobel.se/physics/educational/accelerators/light-1.html

Thanks A.J. I look forward to reading the English version.


I wonder about such things ... "light-1.html"

Mass is energy. Mass (inv.) increases with energy content so
mass is energy. Photons have energy with zero mass. Photons not
effected by a gravitional field will follow the shortest path of
a curvature in space-time.

"The energy associated with motion appears as an extra mass, so
things get heavier when they move."  - Richard Feynman

That statement causes me to wonder about.. Can the energy of a
photon impart any negative mass in its current state to reverse
our everyday thinking "energy in motion is mass"?? . Mass still
being the same energy afterall but in negative motion...

Slowing down an "extra mass" or 2 to shorten the distance
between each frame of reference in space-time. Even cause the
frames of reference to disappear. A principle to "counter mass".

Some IBM research will show this energy to have motion, meaning
the photon energy will tend to follow the shortest path of
curvature in spacetime??. A path with zero motion however, is
somewhat counter to "energy in motion causes more mass".

http://www.research.ibm.com/quantuminfo/teleportation/

Something else interesting about photons I found at this very
finely tuned with graphic pictures website.

http://casa.colorado.edu/~ajsh/schwp.html

The author explains:

"The gravitational slowing of time produces a gravitational
redshift of photons."

Concluding:

"That the redshift factor is the same as the time dilation
factor (well, so one's the reciprocal of the other, but that's
just because the redshift factor is, conventionally, a ratio of
wavelengths rather than a ratio of frequencies) is no
coincidence.

Photons are good clocks. When a photon is redshifted, its
frequency, the rate at which it ticks, slows down."


Enough wondering for today...

John








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   Apr > Apr 22

                 Re: Any X-Conference Reactions? - Maccabee

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 19:03:39 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 13:09:43 -0400
Subject: Re: Any X-Conference Reactions? - Maccabee


>From: Steven Kaeser <steve.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 08:38:08 -0400
>Subject: Any X-Conference Reactions?

>The X-Conference took place this past weekend in Gaithersburg,
>MD and it received almost not publicity from the local media
t>hat I've been able to find. From descriptions, the event was
>well attended, but so far no reactions have been posted. Just
>curious.

Many documentary making organizations were there. WTOP
interviewed me on Sunday morning. Don't know of any other
newsmedia (although I'm sure there were). Didn't see any big TV
station stuff.

But this was "Woodward Weekend"... not surprising if UFOs were
at the bottom of the "things to do" pile on editors desks.








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   Apr > Apr 22

             Re: 'Other Folk' Or 'Parallel Race' Theme - Aubeck

From: Chris Aubeck <caubeck.nul>
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 11:57:48 +0100 (BST)
Fwd Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 13:12:14 -0400
Subject: Re: 'Other Folk' Or 'Parallel Race' Theme - Aubeck


>From: Terry W. Colvin <fortean1.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 19:22:51 -0700
>Subject: 'Other Folk' Or 'Parallel Race' Theme


>Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 16:19:43 -0700
>From: "T. Peter Park" <tpeterpark.nul>
>To: forteana.nul
>Subj: [forteana] "Other Folk" or "Parallel Race"
theme


>Dear David and fellow Forteans,

>With respect to fairies and aliens, I'm particularly
>intrigued by mixed or in-between cases, where
>itnesses have claimed to have encountered beings with
>both fairy and space-alien aspects.

<snip>

>However, the alien trying to steal Everett Clark's
>dog was not a frog-eyed dwarf in leprechaun costume,
>but rather a German-speaking human-looking astronaut
>of ordinary appearance, resembling the ordinary-
>looking German-speaking astronauts seen
>the day before in Kearney, Nebraska by Reinhold
>Schmidt!


Dear Peter, Terry, List members,

Close encounters between people on Earth and mysterious German-
speaking sky-travellers is a phenomenon well over a hundred
years old, but an example I find of special interest is the
following report from 1907. Theo Paijmans, a Magonia Exchange
member, found it last August ("The Wasatch Wave," Utah, June
12th 1907). The text was not completely legible, but fortunately
I was eventually able to trace a second copy in "The Evening
News" of Ada, Oklahoma (June 1st, 1907).

*********

HERE�S A WEIRD TALE.

Queer Brand of Liquor Must Be Used in Tennessee.

Walter Stephenson, while out training a pair of bloodhounds near
the Dikeman springs, was subjected to a unique experience, says
the Nashville American. He was just finishing a long chase with
his dogs and sat down on a log to rest, when he espied upon the
eastern horizon a speck, which he took to be a large kite. He
paid little attention to the object, and shifted his gaze
temporarily to other scenes. Soon his attention was attracted to
a whirring noise, and looking upward, he saw that the speck
which he had a few moments before discovered in the eastern sky
had approached almost directly over him, and that the object was
in reality a huge balloon, but of a pattern and appearance he
had never in his life before seen. He discovered that the
floating mass was rapidly approaching the earth. Of a sudden,
the observer says, strains of music calculated to charm the
spheres burst from the balloon, which circled round and round
and finally landed at Kideman springs. A number of strange
people emerged from the car, which was closely curtained with a
substance that fairly glistened in the sunshine that temporarily
burst through the obscuring clouds, and all going to the big,
flowing spring, knelt by it in a supplicating attitude and so
remained for a minute or more. Mr. Stephenson says that while
this was going on he sat quietly within speaking distance, and
when the strange visitors arose to their feet and he supposed
their devotional exercises were over, he asked if he might be
permitted to inquire who they were and what their mission? He
said that instantly a visard was lifted by one of the company
and the benign face of a lady showed from underneath and said in
German: "Haben sie Beten?" ("did you pray?") and instantly all
were aboard, the airship rose, circled about for a minute or
more, and was gone in a westerly direction.

Mr. Stephenson says that the incident left an impression upon
him that he can never forget, and while he knows that it was
some human invention, it looked and the music sounded more like
that of angels than of mortals.

********

I have several cases of German-speaking sky travellers from
before 1947, and a bunch of mystery sightings from 1907, so this
was not an entirely isolated incident/tale.

Thanks to Theo for the original copy, and to the librarian at
the Nashville Public Library for her help in locating a more
legible one.

Best wishes,

Chris Aubeck

http://embark.to/magonia



=====
Chris Aubeck
Idiomas SEIF
Carrera de S. Jeronimo, 17, 1 - A
Madrid 28014
Spain

tlf: 687758960








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   Apr > Apr 22

                          Re: Bible Code II - Velez

From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 11:25:39 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 13:13:36 -0400
Subject: Re: Bible Code II - Velez


>From: Ray Dickenson <editor.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 23:07:25 +0100
>Subject: Re: Bible Code II

>>From: Eleanor White <eleanor.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 17:43:41 -0400
>>Subject: Re: Bible Code II - White

>>Has anyone on the List every actually tried out the software
>>used to extract the Bible codes? The reason I ask is that...
>>we find that so-called refutations of information themselves
>>can be bogus.

>Yes, I agree that many a headline "refutation" when analyzed is
>merely a 'scientist' abusing his position / qualifications to
>demand that the status quo be maintained. Like "it is... because
>I say so!"

>In this case we're dealing with "hard statistics" of large
>numbers (which I personally find to be counter-intuitive anyway).

>Boiling down paper from Brendan McKay and Friends:

>http://cs.anu.edu.au/~bdm/dilugim/torah.html

>and without the pure statistical part, it seems that we're
>looking at four factors

>1) genuineness of TEXT (including spelling choices)
>2) choice of area of TEXT
>3) validity of ALGORITHMS (routines run on text)
>4) tightness of ALGORITHMS

>If all are decided blind, in advance, and then a "decode" is
>run: then the results are 'significant' to whatever degree. But,
>as Brendan makes clear, if any are tweaked (in any way) to
>"improve" a second run: then those second results are _not_
>significant.

>And a major thrust of Brendan's paper (but by no means all of
>its strength) is that it seems _all_ those factors had to be
>repeatedly tweaked at different times to get near the published
>"revealings".

>[BTW that's why mDNA back-tracing sometimes seems a little flaky
>- the algorithms have to be tweaked, like Relativity math, to get
>sensible results]

>Brendan has added a reference to Bible Code II but haven't had
>chance to read it yet (ISP collapse today so sorry for delay).

>BTW again - Terry W. Colvin just sent in a fortean note that
>"Brendan was winner of the Australian Skeptics Eureka Prize for
>Critical Thinking in 2003 ($10,000)" - but don't let that
>influence our thinking.


Hello All,

I find that I have to alter my 'lurker' status from the List
long enough to scratch a nagging itch that this 'Bible Code'
thread has given me.

The List readers should know that; there _is_ a 'Bible Code'!
Albeit not necessarily the one that is currently under
discussion. (Bible Code II)

A little history if I may.

For centuries the Hebrew Mystics (Hassids etc.) have been using
several methods for 'decoding' hidden meaning in the *'Bible.'

(*As defined by the original Hebrew Bible which consisted of the
five books of Moses, known as the "Pentateuch." It is also
important to note that the original Hebrew Bible was written out
in one long unbroken and un-punctuated string of characters. It
was believed that the entire text, taken as a whole, spelled out
the 'Name' of God.)

Decoding systems known as 'Sud' or 'Gematria' have been taught/
handed down, from Master/Rabbi to student/Zaddik for hundreds,
if not thousands, of years. These Torah scholars have known for
ages that there are multiple 'layers' of meaning hidden in the
lines of 'un-punctuated' Hebrew characters comprising the text
of the Bible. There are layers and layers of meaning that are
revealed only to the eyes of the serious and life-long students
who posses the keys needed to decipher and unlock them.

I cannot vouch for the accuracy or the validity of the
deciphering method that is currently under discussion. (Bible
Code II) I do know that there is hidden information in the
original (Hebrew) Bible and that the means for deciphering it
have coexisted with the Bible since its creation.

We have to be very careful about how we debunk things. This is
an instance where exposing a false 'means' for reaching an end,
threatens to obfuscate a very important truth.

There _is_ hidden meaning in the Bible, (the original Hebrew
Bible which consists of the five books of Moses,) and there are
several 'keys' (methods/systems) which will help the savvy
student to decipher it. Ask any Hassid about it. Mention Qabala.

Excuse me for jumping in here and 'waxing Biblical,' I only
wanted to help 'separate the wheat from the chaff.' I didn't
want anyone to walk away from reading this thread without
knowing that there is a "real" Bible Code and that it is held
safely in the guardianship of sage and wise Torah scholars.

Now that that itch has been scratched... it's back to lurking
for me.

Warmest regards to All,

goombatz 'n gool,

John Velez  ;)









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   Apr > Apr 22

             Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers - Kaeser

From: Steven Kaeser <steve.nul>
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 13:10:14 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 15:39:35 -0400
Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers - Kaeser


>From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 11:44:41 -0700
>Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers

<snip>

Ed-

First of all, I'd have to get out maps, but I recall seeing
several dry lake beds in the region on maps. Some of them were
extremely old and that was one of the problems that Bob Shell
and others had in trying to identify the site. There were too
many potential lake beds to narrow it down. Did you find the
railroad tresstle that the cameraman said that he rode under on
the way to the crash site?. He also described a ride that took
some 45 minutes after he left Socorro, and I'd be interested in
knowing what roads you took. I've been to the Library of
Congress and copied New Mexico maps for that part of the state
in 1949, so I have an idea of what changes have been made and
what roads existed at the time. I'd have to dig them out, but
could probably do so if needed.

>I can't imagine what information you're using for this
>conclusion. The site is defined by tons of cristobalite covering
>rocks, outcroppings, sand and bacterial mats. This area is about
>the size of three to four football fields.

>There isn't a place like this anywhere on this earth.

>There is absolutely no way to explain this accumulation of
>cristobalite, or the huge quantity of the deposit, or how the
>cameraman would know about it.

>"Cristobalite occurs in igneous rocks located in areas of
>volcanic activity. It rarely occurs in detectable samples. Some
>localities where noticeable material has come from are:Cerro San
>Cristobal, Pachua, Mexico (the origination of its name); Little
>Lake, Coso Hot Springs, Inyo Co., California; the San Juan
>Mountains in Colorado; Obsidian Cliff in Yellowstone National
>Park, Wyoming; Mt. Lassen in Lassen Volcanic National Park in
>California; and Crater Lake National Park, Klamath Co., Oregon."

>http://www.minerals.net/mineral/silicate/tecto/quartz/cristobl.htm

If you want to make this as a major issue, please contact a
geologist who is willing to go on the record and state that
there is no known explanation for what you've found there.
Simply citing quotations from a text isn't going to prove
anything to those who have no background in the subject.  An
anomoly of importance should be easy to identify and I'd be most
interested in seeing a geologist from the New Mexico School of
Mines in Socorro make that determination. Your making this as a
statement of fact carries little importance in a real sense.

>That isn't all: there is obvious evidence of scorching heat,
>from above, across most of the site.

>>Bob also believes there's
>>nothing more to learn about the AA "film" unless Ray Santilli
>>finally opens up, and I tend to agree.

>I can't be limited by Ray's reluctance to "open up", but if it
>works for you, it's fine with me.

So, you like the idea of simply making up the facts to fill the
gaps in this..... <g>

The problem is that without Ray's involvement, the entire
"cameraman" story falls to pieces and all you have are images in
an unidentified video. I'm not interested in chasing what might
be trus based only on my own beliefs.

>>But I'm prompted to write because of the continued reference
>>to the "Cameraman's" directions and earlier references to his
>>"drawing" of the crash site. I'm sure I'll be corrected if
>>I'm in error, but to my knowledge the "cameraman" has provided
>>no written material in his own hand.

>It was my understanding that the cameraman drew the crude map
>marking the location of the site. It was very general, but
>accurate as far as it went. I didn't rely on this map except in
>a general way. I used topographical maps and followed the
>drainage patterns to find old accumulations of water and several
>probable sites. I just didn't know if they would be accessible.
>
>>The description of the site was written by Ray Santilli,
>>as he alleges the "cameraman" described it.

>Yes, I believe that's correct. I gleaned the cameraman's
>directions from accounts by the various searchers.(Glen
>Campbell, Michael H, Bob Shell and others) The information you
>provided was excellent and a great help.

>>The map was created
>>by an artist, who listened to the description by the "cameraman"
>>by telephone. He never saw the actual map that was drawn, to my
>>knowledge, and researchers at the time realized how limited in
>>value it was.

>I didn't know that story. I thought the map was drawn by the
>cameraman; it's very accurate and could not have been created by
>chance. But this "map" should not be confused with the
>cameraman's drawings of the site and crash scene, which is
>another matter entirely.

This facet of the story was brought up in an earlier discussion
with you, but it might have been buried. To my knowledge, the
"Cameraman" has provided no actual written material. Period.
Every scrap of information has come from a voice on a telephone,
arranged by Santilli at his office, from Santilli's recollection
of discussions that he's held with the Cameraman, and from a
video that the cameraman made.

Good luck in the quest, and keep us posted on any new
developments. I hope you find the "smoking gun" and can prove
everyone wrong about the "film".


Steve








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   Apr > Apr 22

                    Steve Bassett 'American Candidate' #6

From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul>
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 12:12:41 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 15:44:07 -0400
Subject: Steve Bassett 'American Candidate' #6


A few of you have sent me angry E-mails about these 'special
notices' regarding the 'mock' candidacy of Steve Bassett. I make
no apology, sir or madam.  If you find that they are too much to
bear or the 'straw' that broke your E-mail's saggy camel's
back... your rejection becomes a necessary, albeit unavoidable,
regret.

The purpose of these notices has nothing to do with Presidential
'politics' except where they have 'everything' to do with exo-
politics, UFOs, the very real abduction phenomena, and getting
all that that implies... (key points ahead!) ...on a national
table...(!) over an extended period... (!) in prime time!!!
 Here is our chance to do _just_ that!  Do NOT minimalize this,
reader!  This is an opportunity to talk about what no one else
dares talk about!

Folks!  With respect... Think of the implications!

Steve Bassett has held the top spot in this 'contest' over the
last couple of days with thousands (61 of them in less than two
weeks!) of national and international... but _individual_
indications of support!  There is every indication that this
approach has some 'importance' to people... and more and more
people all the time!  Individuals have signified that they
_want_ an accounting of a ufological reality, it's inclusion in
our cultural reality, and then live more expansively and more
realistically (they suspect!) in that new larger reality!  The
people are speaking, reader! They want the 'extra-normal'
addressed in an intelligent and thoughtful manner!  They would
have answers to questions that they have... (!) and the access
to better questions that those answers would certainly provoke!
 They want the truth!

It's no stretch that political realities as they are...
_precludes_ this kind of brave disclosure, honored reader!  UFOs
and exopolitics threatens this 'accepted' political bunch!
 Remaining, and all we _have_ at present, is a very real
'opportunity'... (!) to inject this ufological prerogative into
the national consciousness... (!) via a serendipitous
 "Showtime" reality program as an un-forecast and fortuitous
prime-time vector!  We need to snatch this thing in our teeth
and run off with it like the hounds of hell were at our heels!

It is admitted by officials of the show that, while it does not
break any election or campaign laws, it still has a very
profound potentiality to effect and affect the actual campaign
(in a ufologically efficacious manner)!  Verily!  The winner of
the 'election', moreover, when the show has had its 10 week
prime-time (and perhaps very popular!) run, can still run for
actual president!  It's ludicrous (...though, remembering
Arnold, stranger things happen...) that the winner could
actually 'be' elected, but Steve could leverage a change in
ufological behavior from the real contestants in a substantive
and productive way (make Bush pay up on his UFO promises during
the last campaign)!

It is a chance for an injection of the ufological (extra-
normal!) reality deep into the consciousness of America and the
World that does not come around frequently!  We need to grab
this thing with both hands, reader, and throw a leg over it!

That's enough for now... Vote Steve Bassett and give him your support.

http://www.americancandidate.com/candidate_homepage.php?id1

Go to the following URL and hear Steve tell you a little bit
about what _he's_ about. Watch the wrap of this long URL; cut
and paste the whole thing:

http://radio.atlantisrising.com/HillyRose/223_Steven_Bassett/223_Steven_Bassett.
ram

Buckle-up, folks.  We're going to get real light in our seats presently!

Just checked - 62,000 plus individual people now think Steve
Bassett has an interesting idea and want to explore it
further..... This is a very real thing folks... It's an
entertainment program... sure, but it's no fantasy. Can you
_dig_ it?

alienview.nul

EXPLORE "AlienViewGroup" at its HostPros URL.
http://www.alienview.net


JOHN FORD RESTORATION FUND - John will be released eventually.
He'll need a tax free cash stake to get on his feet. Let's put
one together for him; the bigger it is - the more attention
he gets. It could have been you. E-mail for detail.
$450.00 pledged - $300.00 collected!

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite.
What others see from afar, I leave far behind me."
- Giordano Bruno, scourged by the scabrously specious scurrilous.








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   Apr > Apr 22

                 Are We Making Any Ground Toward Disclosure?

From: Greg boone <Evolbaby.nul>
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 13:37:59 EDT
Fwd Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 15:46:47 -0400
Subject: Are We Making Any Ground Toward Disclosure?


So Are We Making Any Ground Toward Disclosure? A 'Million UFO
March'?

It was nice to hear Richard C. Hoagland on last night's C2C show
talk about the conference and Steve Bassett's campaign and
disclosure.

In your opinion are we making ground as Hoagland suggests?

Has there ever been a 'March On UFOs' ? Or a demonstration that
was newsworthy?

Maybe we need a 'Million Abductee March' or something.

Just think, a million people marching on Washington D.C. bucking
for disclosure about UFOs. That'd be newsworthy.

Well I know, first thought is of the circus it would create with
people dressed up in costume and goofing around would take away
from the seriousness of the matter but that might be a small
compromise. Perhaps many would find it just a fun outting but it
would add to the numbers.

Just imagining. Don't scream at me.

Best,

Greg









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                   Re: Any X-Conference Reactions? - Pope

From: Nick Pope <nick.nul>
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 19:04:52 +0100
Fwd Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 15:49:39 -0400
Subject: Re: Any X-Conference Reactions? - Pope


>From: Steven Kaeser <steve.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 08:38:08 -0400
>Subject: Any X-Conference Reactions?

>The X-Conference took place this past weekend in Gaithersburg,
>MD and it received almost not publicity from the local media
>that I've been able to find. From descriptions, the event was
>well attended, but so far no reactions have been posted. Just
>curious.

I've just flown back from the X-Conference and thought I'd offer
a few observations.

I enjoyed the conference. It was a chance to meet up with some
good friends like Peter Robbins and Paola Harris, and to meet
researchers such as Ann Druffel, Richard Dolan and Jim Marrs,
whose work I respect, but who I hadn't previously met.

I also welcomed the chance to meet List members such as Larry
Bryant and Ray Stanford. And I finally got to speak to Errol
Bruce-Knapp, when I excused myself from the latter part of
Saturday night's dinner and was interviewed on Strange Days...
Indeed.

The event was well attended and I was interested to see that
around half a dozen people had travelled from the UK.

Most of the media present were specialist documentary makers, so
I suspect that publicity for the X-Conference will be delivered
in the medium term rather than the short term. The April 19
publication of Bob Woodward's book "Plan of Attack" may explain
the apparent lack of TV and newspaper journalists present, as
this was keeping the newsmedia busy.

Speakers and attendees alike had nothing but praise for Steve
Bassett and the PRG team. Their hard work, professionalism and
dedication shone through. Many people expressed the hope that
the X-Conference becomes an annual event.


Best wishes,

Nick Pope







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             Marrs Attacks Official 'Secrecy' On Aliens - Groff

From: Terry Groff <terry.nul>
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 13:44:24 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 15:53:31 -0400
Subject: Marrs Attacks Official 'Secrecy' On Aliens - Groff


Source: The Sentinel - Rockford & Seaford Maryland

http://www.thesentinel.com/280337364552146.php

Marrs Attacks Official 'Secrecy' on Aliens

At Gaithersburg Conference, JFK Conspiracy Author Alleges Feds
Hide Facts on Extraterrestrials.

But a Local Political Hopeful Gets the Main Spotlight

By Ira Weintraub

Special to the Sentinel

Hundreds of people from the United States and around the world
converged on Gaithersburg last weekend for the first conference
dedicated to the government's alleged suppression of data about
UFOs and extraterrestrials.

The "X-Conference: the 1st Annual Exopolitics Expo" at the
Gaithersburg Hilton was organized by activist and former
political candidate Stephen Bassett, who finished a distant last
in the 2002 election for Maryland's 8th Congressional District.

His goal for this convention was the same as for his 2002
campaign. He wants to "reform, revise and open up" the U.S.
political system.

"This is not a UFO conference; it is not about lights in the
sky," Bassett said. "It is about lies on the ground."

Bassett says there are "tens of thousands" who believe in a
cover up. A 2002 poll conducted by the research consulting firm
Roper ASW revealed "that 72 percent of Americans believe the
government is not telling the public everything it knows about
UFO activity, and 68 percent think the government knows more
about extraterrestrial life than it is letting on."

Participants came to the meeting from Massachusetts, California,
Montana, Florida, and many places in between. Others came from
the United Kingdom, Switzerland and other foreign countries. In
all, over 700 people participated in the convention, and they
spent at least $40 per day to listen to dozens of speakers,
including the renowned author Jim Marrs, author of "Crossfire:
The Plot that Killed Kennedy," the book on which Oliver Stone's
movie "JFK" was largely based.

Marrs has also published numerous books more directly relevant
to the conference's central theme, including "Rule by Secrecy"
and "Alien Agenda." He spent his Sunday lecture covering
materialsome apparently based on factthat included not only the
first supposed UFO sightings, of which the government was
alleged to be aware, but also numerous other alleged government
conspiracies regarding Communism, World War II, secret societies
and the Bush family.

According to Marrs, while John F. Kennedy was still a
congressman, he was informed about alien sightings at Roswell
AFB in New Mexico. As president, Kennedy visited Area 51, a
military base in Nevada, to gain further information about the
Roswell incidents, but was told by local Air Force officials
that nothing had happened, Marrs claimed.

Other speakers, all of whom are published authors, included Dr.
William J. Birnes, a best-selling author; Paul Davids, the movie
producer and writer (Showtime's "Roswell"); and Richard C.
Hoagland, science advisor to Walter Cronkite and CBS News.

Only true believers seemed to be in attendance. At any rate, if
any conference attendees were skeptical about an
extraterrestrial presence, they remained silent. The majority
were interested in learning about how politicians are handling
the issue.

"I'm so glad they're working on this topic; too bad it is such a
cover up," said Christine Murphy, who drove over ten hours from
Redford, Mich., to attend the three-day conference.

"My eyes have really opened up to politics [this year]," Murphy
said, "This is the place to be to learn more." Murphy, a mother
of three, became interested in extraterrestrials and UFOs in
the1960s.

Other attendees did not have to travel as far. Mark Thompson,
49, of Silver Spring, has been interested in the topic for over
10 years and was excited when he found out about a weekend
opportunity right in his backyard where he could learn more.

"It is nice to have something like this come to Washington,"
Thompson said.

The convention even drew international media attention; a camera
crew from Swiss National Television was among the nearly 60
members of the media in attendance.

Bassett held the conference in Montgomery County not only
because it is near his Bethesda-based headquarters, but also
because of the proximity to Washington and his target, the
federal government, a body which, two years ago, he was
attempting to join.

Bassett got on the 2002 election ballot as an independent
candidate by receiving over 5,000 signatures from county
residents. And although he only received one percent of the vote
finishing third behind winner Rep. Chris Van Hollen (D) and
incumbent former Rep. Connie Morella (R) he became the first
candidate on a federal election ballot to campaign on a platform
based on the alleged presence of extraterrestrials and UFOs.

With his political aspirations behind him, Bassett spent the
past seven months planning the event, the largest conference of
any kind regarding extraterrestrials and UFOs on the East Coast.

Basset made it clear that he plans to continue raising awareness
about the topic to which he has dedicated his career. Bassett is
executive director of two extraterrestrial-centered
organizations. The Paradigm Research Group, the Bethesda-based
company he founded in 1996, is a research company focusing on
teaching about the extraterrestrial and UFO phenomena. The
Extraterrestrial Phenomena Political Action Committee (X-PPAC),
also founded by Basset, is the first political action committee
in history to directly target the politics of this issue.

His ongoing project is to raise money to fund a Citizen Hearing,
a mock-congressional hearing, to discuss the extraterrestrial
phenomena and the alleged government cover-up. The government
refuses to hold meetings about UFOs and extraterrestrials,
Bassett said. But he hopes to have at least five former
congressmen participate.

"If the U.S. government won't hold a hearing, we'll hold one for
them," Bassett said.









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   Apr > Apr 22

                   Re: Any X-Conference Reactions? - Adams

From: Brian Adams <ufosource.nul>
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 13:50:48 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 15:56:46 -0400
Subject: Re: Any X-Conference Reactions? - Adams


>From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 19:03:39 -0400
>Subject: Re: Any X-Conference Reactions?

>>From: Steven Kaeser <steve.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 08:38:08 -0400
>>Subject: Any X-Conference Reactions?

>>The X-Conference took place this past weekend in Gaithersburg,
>>MD and it received almost not publicity from the local media
>>that I've been able to find. From descriptions, the event was
>>well attended, but so far no reactions have been posted. Just
>>curious.

>Many documentary making organizations were there. WTOP
>interviewed me on Sunday morning. Don't know of any other
>newsmedia (although I'm sure there were). Didn't see any big TV
>station stuff.

>But this was "Woodward Weekend"... not surprising if UFOs were
>at the bottom of the "things to do" pile on editors desks.

On the radio tonight Coast to Coastam will have an X-Conference-
like panel discussion with Linda Howe and Jim Marrs plus 2
others.

Read Jim Binnell's X-Conf. report here:

http://www.coasttocoastam.com/gen/page451.html?theme=light










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   Apr > Apr 22

                        Re: Bible Code II - Dickenson

From: Ray Dickenson <editor.nul>
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 20:18:18 +0100
Fwd Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 16:28:05 -0400
Subject: Re: Bible Code II - Dickenson


>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 11:25:39 -0400
>Subject: Re: Bible Code II

>>http://cs.anu.edu.au/~bdm/dilugim/torah.html

>The List readers should know that; there _is_ a 'Bible Code'!
>Albeit not necessarily the one that is currently under
>discussion. (Bible Code II)

<snip>

>A little history if I may.

>the original Hebrew Bible was written out in one long
>unbroken and un-punctuated string of characters. It was
>believed that the entire text, taken as a whole, spelled
>out the 'Name' of God.

>Decoding systems known as 'Sud' or 'Gematria' have been
>taught/handed down, from Master/Rabbi to student/Zaddik for
>hundreds, if not thousands, of years.

Hello John,

That is very interesting and if that particular "long, unbroken
and un-punctuated" 'Bible' had _always_ been openly known to
everyone, i.e. the general population, those _two_ facts would
go a long way towards answering one huge problem that dooms all
other 'Bible Codes'. But only for that particular 'Bible'.

The 'Bible', as Europeans/Americans know it, was hidden away
from the population for hundreds of years, under pain of death,
because it was deemed to be too sensitive. [Like the Dead Sea
Scrolls were kept under lock and key for decades while panicky
rulers and priests pored over them]

Only when printing came along did it become necessary for a
ruler to have to 'authorize' a version for the masses.

It was suspected to be have been edited to remove inflammatory
phrases or opinions. And the suspicions were right. Even today
you can find `mis-translations' or insertions of past propaganda
in the Bibles known by Europeans and Americans. Check:

http://www.perceptions.couk.com/pauline.html for a few.

That huge problem (for "Coders"): if words or phrases have been
changed - and we know many _have_ been over the centuries - any
sequential coding was destroyed hundreds of years ago, by
repeated double whammies of "destructive gaps" and "destructive
false bits".

Privately, I'm inclined to believe power enabled the corruption
of texts by rulers everywhere. How else did an anti-authority
moral religion like Christianity get adopted by rulers and
transformed into a "do as you're told" religion - "required by
the State" - on pain of torture and death?

In an earlier example the Sanskrit "religious rules" were
forbidden even to be written down - like the non-existent UK
constitution - and for the same reason: so authority can simply
lie whenever anyone says "that's unconstitutional". [Why do you
think "men in suits" are so opposed to a _written_ European
constitution?]

Now we know those Sanskrit rules contained edicts like "an
upper-class person may only be charged 5% interest but lower
classes must be charged at least 50%" (way over 100% in some
cases) - to prevent any change to the status quo.

See the "Institutes of Menu" comments (one by Mark Twain) about
half-way down:

http://www.perceptions.couk.com/talltales.txt

By now intelligent Listers probably realize I'm personally _not_
inclined to give quasi-superstitious credibility to yet another
bent 'priesthood' - even in software form.


Cheers

Ray D

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Perceptions" http://www.perceptions.couk.com





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   Apr > Apr 22

                      Re: Mars Rover Anomalies - Adams

From: Brian Adams <ufosource.nul>
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 14:47:39 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 16:55:44 -0400
Subject: Re: Mars Rover Anomalies - Adams


>From: Colin Stevenson <colsweb.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 16:51:05 +0100
>Subject: Re: Mars Rover Anomalies

>>From: John Scheldroup <jschel.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 13:20:16 -0500
>>Subject: Mars Rover Anomalies

>>Did Mars Rover take picture of UFO well lets see?

>>http://www.rense.com/general51/curious.htm

>>http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/2/n/094/2N134687551ESF2700P1962L0M1
.HTML

>>I have found that for photo enhancement work, that a 24 bit
>>bitmap is best. What I did was take the NASA jpeg photo and
>>format to an bitmap then enhancement for resolution using Ulead
>>photo systems. I converted it back to jpeg and placed it in a
>>folder at my website.

>>The three composite bitmaps are much clearer and less grainy
>>then the jpeg seen below, and is a reflection of their file size
>>to.

>>2.01 mb
>>663  kb
>>232  kb

>>2N134_1E.JPG --- 153 k

>>http://home.centurytel.net/cty90143/jpeg/marsrover/2N134_1E.JPG

>>Well List what do you think?

I found another "sky bug" image that Spirit took just 34 sec
(06:12.59 Mars local time) earlier on Spirit's right pan camera
shot. This image is the lower right one of the Panoramic camera
Sol 94 The sky bug is in the lower right edge of the shot. It
looks pretty interesting to me that in two separate images at
two different angles we see this anomaly buzzing over the rover.


Brian Adams
UFOMIG.com









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                        Re: Magonia's Second Website

From: John Rimmer <jrimmer.nul>
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 20:46:13 +0100
Fwd Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 16:59:41 -0400
Subject: Re: Magonia's Second Website


List members might be interested in checking out Magonia
magazine's second website. Conducted by John Harney, this site
will be used initially to archive the very earliest days of the
Magonia evolutionary chain, the Merseyside UFO Research Group
Bulletin.

http://magonia.mysite.freeserve.com


John Rimmer
Magonia Magazine
www.magonia.demon.co.uk/arc/00/newmag.htm







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                       Moon UFO No Longer Unidentified

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 17:07:20 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 17:07:20 -0400
Subject: Moon UFO No Longer Unidentified





Source: RedNova.com

http://www.rednova.com/news/stories/1/2004/04/22/story004.html

April 22, 2004

Moon UFO No Longer Unidentified

NASA -- UFOs aren't necessarily alien spacecraft. And some
purported UFOs aren't UFOs at all. Take the example from Apollo
16.

Beginning their return from the moon to an April 27, 1972,
splashdown, Astronauts John Young, Thomas Mattingly and Charles
Duke captured about four seconds of video footage of an object
that seemed to look a lot like Hollywood's version of a
spacecraft from another world.

The thing was described as "a saucer-shaped object with a dome
on top." The images were captured with a 16mm motion picture
camera shooting at 12 frames per second from a command/service
module window. The object appears momentarily near the moon. As
the camera pans, it moves out of the field of view. It reappears
as the camera pans back. It appeared in about 50 frames.

Some very bright people recently worked hard to analyze that
footage. Their conclusion was that the object wasn't at all what
some observers thought it seemed to be. There is no indication
the Apollo 16 crew ever thought the film showed anything
special.

A group headed by Gregory Byrne of Johnson Space Center's Image
Science and Analysis Group completed a report on its
investigation earlier this year. They used a video copy of the
film initially, then did a high-resolution digital scan of the
original film for detailed analysis.

They stabilized images to correct for camera movement, and then
aligned multiple frames in a sequence. One thing that showed
them was that the object appeared to move slightly with respect
to the moon, because of parallax brought about by slight camera
motions and the nearness of the object to the camera.

The investigators also combined several frames in a sequence, to
give them higher resolution and greater contrast than individual
frames. The combinations showed them more clearly a "linear
feature" attached to one side of the object. They also looked at
archived images from other Apollo missions.

Bottom line: "All of the evidence in this analysis is consistent
with the conclusion that the object in the Apollo 16 film was
the EVA [spacewalk] floodlight/boom. There is no evidence in the
photographic record to suggest otherwise."







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   Apr > Apr 22

                              MJ-12 Documentary

From: Paul Kimball <Kimballwood.nul>
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 15:58:22 EDT
Fwd Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 17:19:13 -0400
Subject: MJ-12 Documentary


From this week's TV Guide (Canada):

"Do You Believe In Majik (10pm AST - Space) Conspiracy theories
and UFO coverups go hand in hand. In this sequel to the 2002
documentary Stanton T. Friedman IS Real, director Paul Kimball
(right) shines a light on evidence that may prove the existence
of a top-secret agency known as Majestic-12. After examining
alleged Majestic 12 documents, many experts believe this group
was established by the American government in 1947 to cover up
the crash landing of an alien spacecraft in Roswell, N.M., and
remains in place to deal with subsequent UFO sightings. These
documents were leaked to Canadian UFO specialist Stanton
Friedman in the early 1980s, and their authenticity has been
debated ever since. The film addresses both sides of the
argument by examining these papers more closely and by talking
to experts who have analysed them for clues that both discredit
and prove their validity. Now it's up to the viewers to ask, 'Is
the truth really out there?'"

I should add that the actual title of the film is 'Do You Believe
in Majic?' but I can't complain about free PR, even if they get
the title a bit wrong.

The films premieres Wednesday, April 28th, 9 PM EST.

If folks see the film, I'd be interested in any feedback. Feel
free to e-mail me at:

paulkimball.nul


Best regards,

Paul Kimball







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              Re: Are We Making Any Ground Toward Disclosure? -

From: Tin Shell <tshell.nul>
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 15:01:27 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 17:21:38 -0400
Subject: Re: Are We Making Any Ground Toward Disclosure? -


>From: Greg boone <Evolbaby.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 13:37:59 EDT
>Subject: Are We Making Any Ground Toward Disclosure?

>So Are We Making Any Ground Toward Disclosure?

We can't even find out what's going in Iraq, much less some
supra-top-secret facility buried in the desert.  (Psst!  It's
the Time Tunnel.)









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   Apr > Apr 22

                         Albanian Close Encounters?

From: Albert Rosales <Garuda79.nul>
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 16:39:18 EDT
Fwd Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 17:24:30 -0400
Subject: Albanian Close Encounters?


Hello Everyone,

I to make a statement: Of the more than 5,000 case summaries in
my files of close encounters, humanoid reports, crashes, and
other high strange phenomena, I dont have a single case from the
country of Albania, does anybody have anything from there? None
of my contacts in Eastern Europe and Russia have been able to
help.


Sincerely

Albert Rosales








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              Re: 'Other Folk' Or 'Parallel Race' Theme - Hatch

From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 14:01:29 -0700
Fwd Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 17:29:00 -0400
Subject: Re: 'Other Folk' Or 'Parallel Race' Theme - Hatch


>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 13:46:58 -0500
>Subject: Re: 'Other Folk' Or 'Parallel Race' Theme

>>From: Terry W. Colvin <fortean1.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 19:22:51 -0700
>>Subject: 'Other Folk' Or 'Parallel Race' Theme

>>Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 16:19:43 -0700
>>From: "T. Peter Park" <tpeterpark.nul>
>>To: forteana.nul
>>Subj: [forteana] "Other Folk" or "Parallel Race" theme

>>With respect to fairies and aliens, I'm particularly intrigued
>>by mixed or in-between cases, where witnesses have claimed to
>>have encountered beings with both fairy and space-alien aspects.
>>A good example of such an ambiguous or borderline creature is
>>the frog-eyed 3-foot-tall humanoid in a fairy or leprechaun
>>costume from an egg-shaped UFO encountered by John Trasco of
>>Everittstown, NJ, on the evening of November 6th, 1957. Trasco
>>went outside at dusk to feed his dog and saw a brilliant egg-

>>shaped object hovering in front of his barn. He was confronted
>>by a being 3 feet tall with a "putty-colored face" with a nose,
>>chin, and "large frog-like eyes" wearing a green suit with shiny
>>buttons, a green tam-o-shanter-like cap, and gloves with a shiny
>>object at the tip of each finger. The dwarf said, in broken
>>English, "we are peaceful people, we only want your dog." The
>>frightened but angry Trasco retorted, "Get the hell out of
>>here." The being then ran away, and a moment later his machine
>>took off straight up.

>I was once told by a credible source that this story is known
>to be a hoax. It's certainly an atypical CE3, and the item about
>the tam-o-shanter strikes me as a joker's detail. I was told
>that Jules St. Germain, an active member of the 1950s-era
>Civilian Saucer Intelligence (associated with such luminaries as
>Isabel Davis, Ted Bloecher, and Alexander Mebane), went to the
>farm to see the Trascos. The visit startled and unsettled them,
>and at one point they went to another room, from which he
>overheard them talking anxiously about whether they were going
>to get into trouble for making up the story.

>If anybody knows more than this - at least a secondhand account
>- I hope he or she posts the details here. I have to say that,
>simply on its face, I have a pretty hard time taking the tale
>seriously.


Hello Jerry, Terry, all:

Can someone provide the date and place for the Trasco case?  I
don't catalog by names like Trasco. It definitely rings a bell,
and I may need to adjust a record based on Jerry's input.


Best

- Larry









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   Apr > Apr 23

              Re: 'Other Folk' Or 'Parallel Race' Theme - Clark

From: Jerome Clark <jkclark.nul>
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 16:54:46 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 00:31:13 -0400
Subject: Re: 'Other Folk' Or 'Parallel Race' Theme - Clark


>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 14:01:29 -0700
>Subject: Re: 'Other Folk' Or 'Parallel Race' Theme

>>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 13:46:58 -0500
>>Subject: Re: 'Other Folk' Or 'Parallel Race' Theme

>>>From: Terry W. Colvin <fortean1.nul>
>>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 19:22:51 -0700
>>>Subject: 'Other Folk' Or 'Parallel Race' Theme

>>>Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 16:19:43 -0700
>>>From: "T. Peter Park" <tpeterpark.nul>
>>>To: forteana.nul
>>>Subj: [forteana] "Other Folk" or "Parallel Race" theme

>>>With respect to fairies and aliens, I'm particularly intrigued
>>>by mixed or in-between cases, where witnesses have claimed to
>>>have encountered beings with both fairy and space-alien aspects.
>>>A good example of such an ambiguous or borderline creature is
>>>the frog-eyed 3-foot-tall humanoid in a fairy or leprechaun
>>>costume from an egg-shaped UFO encountered by John Trasco of
>>>Everittstown, NJ, on the evening of November 6th, 1957. Trasco
>>>went outside at dusk to feed his dog and saw a brilliant egg-
>>>shaped object hovering in front of his barn. He was confronted
>>>by a being 3 feet tall with a "putty-colored face" with a nose,
>>>chin, and "large frog-like eyes" wearing a green suit with shiny
>>>buttons, a green tam-o-shanter-like cap, and gloves with a shiny
>>>object at the tip of each finger. The dwarf said, in broken
>>>English, "we are peaceful people, we only want your dog." The
>>>frightened but angry Trasco retorted, "Get the hell out of
>>>here." The being then ran away, and a moment later his machine
>>>took off straight up.

>>I was once told by a credible source that this story is known
>>to be a hoax. It's certainly an atypical CE3, and the item about
>>the tam-o-shanter strikes me as a joker's detail.

>Hello Jerry, Terry, all:

>Can someone provide the date and place for the Trasco case? I
>don't catalog by names like Trasco. It definitely rings a bell,
>and I may need to adjust a record based on Jerry's input.

Larry,

I assume you have a copy of Michel's Flying Saucers and the
Straight-Line Mystery.

There is an appendix by Alexander D. Mebane, titled "The 1957
Saucer Wave in the United States." The Trasco tale is discussed
on pp. 273-74. The incident allegedly took place "about dusk on
November 6" at or near Everittstown, New Jersey. Mebane writes
that "seasoned newspaperman Richard Harpster of nearby
Washington, N.J.," interviewed Mrs. Trasco.

As I've stated earlier, I've heard that a subsequent meeting
with the Trascos, by ufologist Jules St. Germain, produced
reason to suspect a hoax. I can't prove this was a hoax, of
course, but the individual who related this to me - a few years
ago - was someone I tend to credit. And to repeat myself again,
the details of the story alone strike me as unlikely, even as
exotic CE3s go.


Jerry Clark








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   Apr > Apr 23

                      No Wonder The Press Bypasses UFOs

From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 18:12:19 EDT
Fwd Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 00:35:03 -0400
Subject: No Wonder The Press Bypasses UFOs


http://www.usatoday.com/news/2004-04-22-report-one_x.htm

This is a story link to USA Today's coverage of their own news
scandal revolving around veteran reporter Jack Kelley.

For those of you out of the loop, Kelley was busted big time for
fabricating stories for years on end at this paper.

Part of the huge Gannett News Service, USA Today tries to
explain how circumstances got out of hand.

Just read into their investigation and you'll see why such
issues as UFOs don't get covered properly. It's the social
structure and mentality of the news staff that precipitated this
scandal and allowed it to flourish for as long as it did.  Note
how early in the investigation the 'fear' and 'retribution'
factor comes into play.

See? If it happens at an institution covered by the laws of the
land you can imagine how bad it must be in the military or
government contractors.

I cut my teeth working for Gannett. 8 years there. We helped
launch USA Today and sacrificed much to do so. I was young and
after 8 years and then USA Today gained popularity things went
from the attitude of serving the public to serving the
stockholders and I picked up my gear and left. I had this eerie
feeling at the time that some sinister force was at work and
this was during the hey day of the Hudson Valley UFO sightings.
(another story altogether which you'll find in the archives of
this list).

Now I feel odd. I was right. Something strange was going on and
it took this long for it to come to light.

Pity. If Gannett's stock crashes due to the probable massive
lawsuits from people Kelley hurt with his fabrications alot of
innocent people will take a fall.

I remember how excited we all were when we got the news that USA
Today was going to launch. A big step and fun seeing it begin.
For a kid like me back then it was cutting edge technology with
satellites to boot. Then one guy, surrounded by so called
professionals pulls this crap and gets away with it for YEARS
because people were afraid to come forward? Ridicule?
Retribution?

Reminds me too much of what happens to UFO researchers,
witnesses and whistleblowers.

Somebody should tell the news services that integrity begins at
home. Either serve us or shut down.


Best,

Greg








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                      Re: Mars Rover Anomalies - Groff

From: Terry Groff <terry.nul>
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 17:20:28 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 00:44:12 -0400
Subject: Re: Mars Rover Anomalies - Groff


>From: Brian Adams <ufosource.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 14:47:39 -0500
>Subject: Re: Mars Rover Anomalies

>I found another "sky bug" image that Spirit took just 34 sec
>(06:12.59 Mars local time) earlier on Spirit's right pan camera
>shot. This image is the lower right one of the Panoramic camera
>Sol 94 The sky bug is in the lower right edge of the shot. It
>looks pretty interesting to me that in two separate images at
>two different angles we see this anomaly buzzing over the rover.

I would be more impressed if the object(s) showed up in both the
right and left cameras at the same time. That would really be
something.  There have been a lot of these "objects" showing up
on the NavCams but none have showed in both cameras at once.


Terry Groff

UFO Tools - http://terrygroff.com/ufotools/
DFW MUFON - http://mufondfw.com/






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                 Re: Moon UFO No Longer Unidentified - Groff

From: Terry Groff <terry.nul>
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 17:39:09 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 00:50:04 -0400
Subject: Re: Moon UFO No Longer Unidentified - Groff


>From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>To: <- UFO UpDates Subscribers ->
>Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 17:07:20 -0400
>Subject: Moon UFO No Longer Unidentified


>Source: RedNova.com

>http://www.rednova.com/news/stories/1/2004/04/22/story004.html

>April 22, 2004

>Moon UFO No Longer Unidentified

>NASA -- UFOs aren't necessarily alien spacecraft. And some
>purported UFOs aren't UFOs at all. Take the example from Apollo
>16.

>Beginning their return from the moon to an April 27, 1972,
>splashdown, Astronauts John Young, Thomas Mattingly and Charles
>Duke captured about four seconds of video footage of an object
>that seemed to look a lot like Hollywood's version of a
>spacecraft from another world.

<snip>

>Bottom line: "All of the evidence in this analysis is consistent
>with the conclusion that the object in the Apollo 16 film was
>the EVA [spacewalk] floodlight/boom. There is no evidence in the
>photographic record to suggest otherwise."

I find it odd the neither Young, Mattingly or Duke were able to
recognize the EVA Floodlight/boom, or, if they did, why they
wouldn't mention it. I also wonder why, if it was the boom, it
had not been retracted into the payload bay after the last EVA.


Terry Groff

UFO Tools - http://terrygroff.com/ufotools/
DFW MUFON - http://mufondfw.com/








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                    Re: Mars Rover Anomalies - Scheldroup

From: John Scheldroup <jschel.nul>
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 20:06:22 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 01:07:40 -0400
Subject: Re: Mars Rover Anomalies - Scheldroup


>From: Brian Adams <ufosource.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 14:47:39 -0500
>Subject: Re: Mars Rover Anomalies

>>From: Colin Stevenson <colsweb.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 16:51:05 +0100
>>Subject: Re: Mars Rover Anomalies

>>>From: John Scheldroup <jschel.nul>
>>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>>Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 13:20:16 -0500
>>>Subject: Mars Rover Anomalies

>>>Did Mars Rover take picture of UFO well lets see?

>>>http://www.rense.com/general51/curious.htm

>>>http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/2/n/094/2N134687551ESF2700P1962L0M
1.HTML

>>>I have found that for photo enhancement work, that a 24 bit
>>>bitmap is best. What I did was take the NASA jpeg photo and
>>>format to an bitmap then enhancement for resolution using Ulead
>>>photo systems. I converted it back to jpeg and placed it in a
>>>folder at my website.

>>>The three composite bitmaps are much clearer and less grainy
>>>then the jpeg seen below, and is a reflection of their file size
>>>to.

>>>2.01 mb
>>>663  kb
>>>232  kb

>>>2N134_1E.JPG --- 153 k

>>>http://home.centurytel.net/cty90143/jpeg/marsrover/2N134_1E.JPG

>>>Well List what do you think?

>I found another "sky bug" image that Spirit took just 34 sec
>(06:12.59 Mars local time) earlier on Spirit's right pan camera
>shot. This image is the lower right one of the Panoramic camera
>Sol 94 The sky bug is in the lower right edge of the shot. It
>looks pretty interesting to me that in two separate images at
>two different angles we see this anomaly buzzing over the rover.


Do the "sky bugs" know for certain that it would take one giant
leap forward of human experience before they can colonize the
planet Mars even in small numbers ?

Do the "sky bugs" know about the capabilities built-in to this
rover that are needed to criss cross this mountain terrain over
great distance that it must be limited ?

1. We are not going to colonize Mars anytime in the foreseeable
future.

2. We are not going to find any alien base using this spirit
rover.

To eliminate the impossible can only mean simple reasoning with
thought.

3. We are making this historical excersise to track their
progress the closer they can obtain to parts 1 and 2.

In the meantime Brian, it's just an anomaly. <G>


John







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   Apr > Apr 23

                          Re: Bible Code II - Kerth

From: Linda Kerth <LINDAKERTH.nul>
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 00:55:53 EDT
Fwd Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 08:25:45 -0400
Subject: Re: Bible Code II - Kerth


>From: John Velez <johnvelez.aic.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 11:25:39 -0400
>Subject: Re: Bible Code II

>>From: Ray Dickenson <editor.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 23:07:25 +0100
>>Subject: Re: Bible Code II

>>>From: Eleanor White <eleanor.nul>
>>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>>Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 17:43:41 -0400
>>>Subject: Re: Bible Code II - White

>>>Has anyone on the List every actually tried out the software
>>>used to extract the Bible codes? The reason I ask is that...
>>>we find that so-called refutations of information themselves
>>>can be bogus.

<snip>

>For centuries the Hebrew Mystics (Hassids etc.) have been using
>several methods for 'decoding' hidden meaning in the *'Bible.'

>(*As defined by the original Hebrew Bible which consisted of the
>five books of Moses, known as the "Pentateuch." It is also
>important to note that the original Hebrew Bible was written out
>in one long unbroken and un-punctuated string of characters. It
>was believed that the entire text, taken as a whole, spelled out
>the 'Name' of God.)

<snip>

>I cannot vouch for the accuracy or the validity of the
>deciphering method that is currently under discussion. (Bible
>Code II) I do know that there is hidden information in the
>original (Hebrew) Bible and that the means for deciphering it
>have coexisted with the Bible since its creation.

>We have to be very careful about how we debunk things. This is
>an instance where exposing a false 'means' for reaching an end,
>threatens to obfuscate a very important truth.

<snip>

>Now that that itch has been scratched... it's back to lurking
>for me.

>Warmest regards to All,
>John Velez  ;)

Hi, John ... thanks for scratching.

Since reading both of Drosnin's books, I've delved into some
Kabbalistic literature and books on the Hebrew alphabet.  As far
as I can see, everything you say is absolutely true.   Check
out, interested reader, for example, Rabbi Michael Munk's "The
Wisdom in the Hebrew Alphabet" or Edward Hoffman's "The Hebrew
Alphabet."

Not only has the original "scroll" format (all one long string
of 600,000 characters) been preserved, but the tradition is that
any single error in copying and the whole thing must be chucked
out.

The twenty-two sacred letters are profound, primal spiritual
forces.  The Torah was written _before_ the creation, and was
itself the instrument of creation.  The Divine will of the
original creative force remains in place, or all would dissolve
back into nothingness.  These are the traditions of the Sages
for thousands of years.  In other words, the "Aleph-Beis" is not
a common convention like all other alphabets.  The Torah was not
made by man, and therefore cannot be manipulated by man.  The
letters that brought the world into existence remain with us
every instant. This is Jewish law.

Quoting from Munk:  "In a Torah scroll, if even one letter is
missing, the scroll is invalid, for every letter is
indispensable. It is also invalid if two letters touch one
another" (p30).

So whatever hidden code was concealed (by Divine will, one
presumes) is surely still there.  Of couse, this only pertains
to the Hebrew language ... there are several "computer code"
programs out there (for sale, of course) which will tell you if
your name is in there (in English, yet). Why is it that
everytime a genuine mystery surfaces, the waters are immediately
sullied by filth?


Yours,

Linda Kerth







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                                NARA Cops Out

From: Larry W. Bryant <overtci.nul>
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 02:28:39 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 12:24:15 -0400
Subject: NARA Cops Out


[LWB Note: NARA's Mr. Schlessinger may not consider his (below-
quoted) FOIA response to be a denial-of-access, but I certainly
do. Stay tuned.]

FROM: Kenneth D. Schlessinger
Modern Military Records (NWCTM)
Textual Archives Services Division
U. S National Archives and Records Administration
College Park, MD 20740-6001

TO: Larry W. Bryant

DATE: April 15, 2004

Dear Mr. Bryant:

This is in response to your April 1, 2004, Freedom of
Information Act request (NW 24401). We received your copy in
this office on April 8, 2004.

Your request fails to meet certain tests of the FOIA. You have
stated a topic [i.e., a telex-DOCUMENTED 1975 INCIDENT involving
"hostile aerial craft's" interference with supersecret U. S.
military space satellites --LWB] rather than describing
specific documents. The Freedom of Information Act does not
obligate federal agencies to do research for the requestor. We
regret that we cannot undertake the extensive research necessary
to identify the exact documents in which you are interested. We
are staffed to assist researchers with their work, but not to
undertake substantive research for them. We will be happy to
make appropriate records and finding aids available in our
research rooms should you have an opportunity to visit the
National Archives.

Should you choose to come to the National Archives to do
research, our records and microfilm publications are available
for consultation without charge in our research rooms. The
National Archives at College Park (Archives II) is located at
8601 Adelphi Road, between Metzerott Road and University
Boulevard/Greenbelt Road, just inside the Beltway between the
New Hampshire Avenue and Route 1 Exits. If you do not have a
research card, you must apply for one in the reception area.
Research room hours (except legal holidays) are 8:45 a.m. to 5
p.m., Monday and Wednesday; 8:45 a.m. to 9:00 p.m. Tuesday,
Thursday, and Friday; and 8:45 a.m. to 4:45 p.m. on Saturday.
Please call (301) 837-3510 before 3:30 p.m. Monday through
Friday to request records for evening hours (after 5:00 p.m.)
and Saturdays. No requests for records can be made in the
evenings or on Saturdays. You may want to access the National
Archives website for more information: http://www.archives.gov .

We do not consider this response a denial under the Freedom of
Information Act because we cannot determine without more
specific information whether the records you have requested
exist.


Sincerely,

KENNETH D. SCHLESSINGER








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   Apr > Apr 23

                      Re: Mars Rover Anomalies - Grass

From: Robert Grass <RDGRASS.nul>
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 04:11:36 EDT
Fwd Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 12:27:11 -0400
Subject: Re: Mars Rover Anomalies - Grass


>From: John Scheldroup <jschel.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 20:06:22 -0500
>Subject: Re: Mars Rover Anomalies

<snip>

>Do the "sky bugs" know for certain that it would take one giant
>leap forward of human experience before they can colonize the
>planet Mars even in small numbers ?

>Do the "sky bugs" know about the capabilities built-in to this
>rover that are needed to criss cross this mountain terrain over
>great distance that it must be limited ?

>1. We are not going to colonize Mars anytime in the foreseeable
>future.

>2. We are not going to find any alien base using this spirit
>rover.

>To eliminate the impossible can only mean simple reasoning with
>thought.

>3. We are making this historical excersise to track their
>progress the closer they can obtain to parts 1 and 2.

>In the meantime Brian, it's just an anomaly. <G>

John,

With all due respect, nothing in your post was either stated or
implied regarding this subject.


Robert







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                   Re: Albanian Close Encounters? - Hatch

From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 04:23:00 -0700
Fwd Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 12:28:34 -0400
Subject: Re: Albanian Close Encounters? - Hatch


>From: Albert Rosales <Garuda79.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 16:39:18 EDT
>Subject: Albanian Close Encounters?

>Hello Everyone,

>I to make a statement: Of the more than 5,000 case summaries in
>my files of close encounters, humanoid reports, crashes, and
>other high strange phenomena, I dont have a single case from the
>country of Albania, does anybody have anything from there? None
>of my contacts in Eastern Europe and Russia have been able to
>help.


Hello Alberto:

I have absolutely no sightings listed for Albania in my entire
database of 12,800 cases worldwide.

Here are the two closest ones:

#14404: 1982/06/21 12:20? d=12m 18:55E 40:21N WEU MED ADR 45 NM
SE/BRINDISI,ITL:737 CREW++:BLK RECTANGLE STILL/23K': (Below
liner)/r150 /r169 RANDLES,Jenny: SCIENCE and the UFOS: Pg.114
OFFSHORE

This is midway between the boot-heel of Italy and Albania, i.e.
out at sea.

#15118: 1988/02/11 21:30h d=3m  19:55E 39:37N WEU MED GRC
CORFU=KEKIVA,GREECE:ATCs++:1 THEN 2 BALLS/LITE ARRIVE W/737:
BUZZ LANDING STRIP
/r177 v.LUDVIGER,I. UFOs-ZEUGEN & ZEICHEN. Pg. 146 ISLANDS

On the map this looks like its in Southernmost coastal Albania.
However, it turns out to be a Greek Island just offshore, not
Albanian territory.

Under the decades long dictatorship of communist Enver Hoxha,
virtually no information of any sort would get into or out of
Albania, not even cartoons. One can imagine the difficulty of
getting UFO sightings out!

Hoxha died in the late 1980s I believe, having held an iron grip
on that impoverished country since World War 2. North Korea
maintains a similar air-tight secrecy even now. My only listings
for NK date back to the Korean war, and came mainly from US
forces then.


Sorry

- Larry









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                          Secrecy News -- 04/23/04

From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood.nul>
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 12:11:40 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 14:58:41 -0400
Subject: Secrecy News -- 04/23/04


SECRECY NEWS
from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy
Volume 2004, Issue No. 39
April 23, 2004


**      PHOTOS OF MILITARY COFFINS FROM IRAQ RELEASED
**      SECRECY SPREADS IN ACADEMIC SCIENCE
**      THE WAR POWERS ACT: AFTER THIRTY YEARS (CRS)
**      THE SARS OUTBREAK IN CANADA REVISITED
**      AMENDING THE PATRIOT ACT
**      THE CONSEQUENCES OF A DIRTY BOMB (CRS)
**      DEA VIEWS CHINA AND DRUGS
**      RUMSFELD ON FOIA


PHOTOS OF MILITARY COFFINS FROM IRAQ RELEASED

U.S. government photos of coffins of soldiers killed in Iraq ended
up on the front pages of newspapers around the country after they
were released in response to a Freedom of Information Act request
from Russ Kick of TheMemoryHole.org, who posted them on his
website here (temporarily down, presumably due to excess
traffic):

http://www.thememoryhole.org/war/coffin_photos/dover

Pentagon officials expressed dismay at the release, and halted
any further such releases.

"We don't want the remains of our service members who have made
the ultimate sacrifice to be the subject of any kind of
attention that is unwarranted or undignified," said Deputy Under
Secretary of Defense John Molino.

The odd implication of the Pentagon clamp down is that the
military photographers who took the photos were somehow being
disrespectful. But that view is not borne out by examination of
the published photos, which are perfectly dignified.

"I would make the argument that trying to hide the photos of
these people who gave everything for their country is actually
dishonoring them," Mr. Kick told the Seattle Times. "They went
over there in all of our names and died, and then when they come
back home, they're hidden behind a curtain. I think that's
wrong."


SECRECY SPREADS IN ACADEMIC SCIENCE

Restrictions on the publication of unclassified scientific
research and on the participation of foreign nationals in such
research are documented in a new study from the Association of
American Universities.

"Over the past three years, universities across the country have
reported a significant increase of situations where a sponsor
has included... language that either restricts the dissemination
of research results or the use of foreign nationals without
prior approval on certain research projects," the report states.

The authors analyzed 138 instances of such restrictions, mostly
imposed by Defense Department funders.

"The most disturbing outcome revealed by the data is the
substantial negative impact on the conduct of basic and applied
research of value to the nation which normally takes place in
institutions of higher education in the United States."

In the best case, such restrictions typically cause delay in the
negotiation of contract agreements. In the worst case, they
drive scientists away from investigation of contentious topics,
the authors found.

"Faculty and researchers are often forced to turn their
attention and talents toward research projects that do not
involve these difficulties," according to the study.

The authors said that such restrictions run contrary to the
policy enunciated in the 1985 National Security Decision
Directive 189, which directed that unclassified research should
remain unrestricted.

See "Restrictions on Research Awards: Troublesome Clauses,"
report of a task force of the Association of American
Universities and the Council on Governmental Relations,
transmitted April 8, 2004:
http://www.aau.edu/research/Rpt4.8.04.pdf

The new study was described in "Reports Examine Academe's Role
in Keeping Secrets" by David Malakoff, Science Magazine, April
23.

Meanwhile, however, a report from the Defense Department
Inspector General (also noted by Malakoff) found that "one
university granted foreign nationals access to unclassified
export-controlled technology without proper authorization."

"Unauthorized access to unclassified export-controlled
technology could allow foreign nations to counter or reproduce
the technology and thus reduce the effectiveness of the
technology, significantly alter program direction, or degrade
combat effectiveness," the Inspector General warned.

See "Export-Controlled Technology at Contractor, University, and
Federally Funded Research and Development Center Facilities,"
DoD Inspector General, March 25, 2004:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/othergov/dod/igexport.pdf

Two recently updated Congressional Research Service reports
address related issues of controlling scientific information.

"Balancing Scientific Publication and National Security
Concerns: Issues for Congress," by Dana A. Shea, updated
February 2, 2004: http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/RL31695.pdf

"'Sensitive But Unclassified' and Other Federal Security
Controls on Scientific and Technical Information: History and
Current Controversy," by Genevieve J. Knezo, udpated February
20, 2004:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/RL31845.pdf


THE WAR POWERS ACT: AFTER THIRTY YEARS (CRS)

The history and the application of the War Powers Act are
reviewed in a new report from the Congressional Research
Service.

"During the Vietnam war, Congress searched for a way to assert
authority to decide when the United States should become
involved in a war or the armed forces be utilized in
circumstances that might lead to hostilities. On November 7,
1973, it passed the War Powers Resolution over the veto of
President Nixon."

"The record of the War Powers Resolution since its enactment has
been mixed, and after 30 years it remains controversial."

The new CRS report examines the provisions of the War Powers
Resolution, its use from 1973 through October 2001, and proposed
amendments to it.

See "The War Powers Resolution: After Thirty Years" by Richard
F. Grimmett, March 11, 2004:

http://www.fas.org/man/crs/RL32267.html

See also a related CRS Issue Brief entitled "War Powers
Resolution: Presidential Compliance," updated March 16, 2004:

http://www.fas.org/man/crs/IB81050.html

Direct public access to CRS products like these is not
authorized by the U.S. Congress.


THE SARS OUTBREAK IN CANADA REVISITED

The outbreak of the SARS virus in Ontario, Canada in spring of
2003 caught the Canadian public health system unprepared and
ill-equipped to respond. An official Canadian Commission report
dissects the failures and proposes remedial measures.

"The report is unflattering," a email correspondent wrote to
Secrecy News, "but it is an exceptionally good assessment of a
public health infrastructure under duress."

"You could swap certain words, like 'U.S.' for 'Ontario' or
'anthrax' for 'SARS,' and it would be a familiar story in some
ways."

On the other hand, the Canadian report does not include an
analysis of "the intersections of law enforcement and public
health that are important for a competent bioterrorism response.
We can only learn so much about intentional events by studying
unintentional ones."

See the SARS Commission Interim Report "SARS and Public Health
in Ontario," April 15, 2004 (230 pages, 925 KB PDF file):

http://www.fas.org/irp/threat/cbw/sars-ontario.pdf


AMENDING THE PATRIOT ACT

Over the past week, President Bush has repeatedly urged the
renewal of the USA Patriot Act, portions of which are set to
expire in 2005, and he has indicated that nothing less than
complete and uncritical endorsement of the Act is acceptable.

"The President called for Congress to renew all parts of the USA
PATRIOT Act that are scheduled to expire next year," according to
an April 19 White House Fact Sheet:

http://www.fas.org/irp/news/2004/04/wh041904.html

But not everyone in Congress is taking dictation from the White
House.

A bill called the Security and Freedom Ensured (SAFE) Act, which
was introduced with bipartisan sponsorship, says it would "amend
the USA PATRIOT ACT to place reasonable limitations on the use
of surveillance and the issuance of search warrants."

The provisions of the SAFE Act were described by a Congressional
Research Service analyst in a February 19 report here:
http://www.fas.org/irp/crs/RS21743.html

Although the SAFE Act has not yet been considered in Committee,
much less come to a vote, the Bush Administration has declared
it would veto the measure.


THE CONSEQUENCES OF A DIRTY BOMB (CRS)

The potential impacts of a terrorist attack involving a dirty
bomb, or radiological dispersal device, are considered in a
recent report from the Congressional Research Service.
  "Terrorist detonation of a dirty bomb... might cause
casualties, economic damage, and, potentially, public panic,
though experts disagree on the likely magnitude of each of these
effects."

See "Radiological Dispersal Devices: Select Issues in
Consequence Management" by Dana A. Shea, March 10, 2004:

http://www.fas.org/spp/starwars/crs/RS21766.pdf


DEA VIEWS CHINA AND DRUGS

The role of China in illicit drug trafficking is assessed in a
recent "drug intelligence brief" from the U.S. Drug Enforcement
Administration.

"China is a major source of precursor chemicals necessary for
the production of cocaine, heroin, and crystal methamphetamine,"
the DEA brief said.

"Although China has taken aggressive actions through legislation
and regulation of production and exportation of precursor
chemicals, extensive action is required to control the illicit
diversion and smuggling of precursor chemicals."

See "China: Country Brief," Drug Enforcement Agency, February
2004 (650 KB PDF file):

http://www.fas.org/irp/agency/doj/dea/product/china0204.pdf


RUMSFELD ON FOIA

Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld yesterday recalled that "as a
young member of Congress back in the 1960s, still in my 30s, I
was a co-sponsor of the Freedom of Information Act."

"Now we all recognize that that Act causes government officials
occasional pain," Rumsfeld said in a speech to the Newspaper
Association of America and the American Society of Newspaper
Editors, "but in my view, it has been a valuable Act in helping
to get the facts to the American people."

"Our great political system needs information to be self-
correcting. While excesses and imbalances will inevitably exist
for a time, fortunately they tend not to last."

"Ultimately truth prevails," Secretary Rumsfeld said. See:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/2004/04/dod042204.html


_______________________________________________
Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the
Federation of American Scientists.

To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email tosecrecy_news-
request.nul with "subscribe" in the body of the
message.


OR email your request to saftergood.nul

Secrecy News is archived at:
http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html

_______________________
Steven Aftergood
Project on Government Secrecy
Federation of American Scientists
web:  www.fas.org/sgp/index.html
email: saftergood.nul
voice: (202) 454-4691








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                 X-Conference Draws Hundreds To Gaithersburg

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 15:14:04 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 15:14:04 -0400
Subject: X-Conference Draws Hundreds To Gaithersburg




Source: The Gazette - Gaithersburg, Maryland

http://www.gazette.net/200417/gaithersburg/news/212780-1.html

04-21-04

X-Conference Draws Hundreds Of Believers To Gaithersburg

by

Brooke W. Stanley
Staff Writer

The certainty of alien life on Earth is usually not at the top
of the list of socially acceptable topics of conversation.

Yet those wishing to delve into such a realm found a sounding
board in Gaithersburg this weekend, as people from all over the
nation flooded the Hilton to discuss and learn about all things
extraterrestrial at the X-Conference.

They seemed as comfortable discussing aliens as they would be
discussing the weather.

Between 580 and 590 shelled out $45 a day to hear some of the 25
experts from five different countries talk about everything from
government cover-ups to parallel dimensions.

The Paradigm Research Group, a Bethesda-based organization that
provides services such as political consulting and fund-raising
for researchers and activists involved with extraterrestrial
phenomena, organized conference.

The group was founded in 1996 by Montgomery County resident
Stephen Bassett, who ran for Congress in 2002 in hopes of
drawing attention to the government cover-up of alien
incursions.

Connie Guy, of Myersville, said she decided to attend the
conference after a speech Bassett made at her church piqued her
interest in UFOs.

"I think they're here", Guy said of aliens. " I think they're
present. I think they're probably among us."

Guy believes humans can learn a lot from extraterrestrials.

"I believe that the beings that are outside of our awareness can
help us because they know a lot of things we have yet to
understand", Guy said.

Specifically, she believes extraterrestrials have harnessed
energy in a way humans have not, and hopes that such technology
can end the world's dependence on oil that has led to extreme
human greed.

Guy's husband, Ted Jenkins, also attended the conference but had
a less concrete belief in aliens.

"I believe in only the possibility", Jenkins said.

Jenkins said he has seen lights in the sky both in this area and
in other parts of the country that move, stop and then change
direction. But he is not jumping to any conclusions.

"I've seen things that I couldn't explain", he said. "...I don't
know what I saw."

Jenkins said he believes knowledge of other intelligent life
forms can be dangerous. An actual sighting of an alien could
make someone go crazy, he said.

"It just shakes them out of their environment too much", he
said.

Aliens also pose a threat to religious beliefs, Jenkins said.

"The basic idea of extraterrestrials challenges most religions",
he said.

Among the vendors selling a plethora of UFO books and videos was
Guy Malone, a self-described missionary who moved from
Nashville, Tenn. to Roswell, N.M. in 1999 to teach Christianity
to people who have had alien encounters.

Malone was selling both his book, "Come Sail Away", and T-shirts
that said "A Single Ufologist's Biggest Problem? All the good
ones are taken!" Taken, as in abducted, Malone explained.

All joking aside, Malone said he believes the beings people
describe in alien encounters are actually fallen angels, not
extraterrestrials.

The Bible has the oldest and most accurate description of these
beings, Malone said. "I do believe the Bible has those answers
people are looking for", he said.

Malone, who owns a biblical bookstore in Roswell, said he hopes
to keep people away from UFO cult religions, such as Heaven's
Gate, which only take people further into dealings with fallen
angels.

"Typically the church shuns those type of people so they go
somewhere else looking for answers", Malone said.

Rebecca Gordon, who lives in Boulder, Colo., said the conference
was one of more than 10 she has attended all over the country
and the world.

Gordon, 35, said she saw a UFO while driving just outside of
Lake Tahoe in California when she was 17. It was in a valley and
shot off into the distance very quickly, she said.

"[It was] just a light in the sky -- nothing exciting, but I
knew it wasn't from here, so I started reading about it", Gordon
said.

She said she is fascinated by the lack of attention paid to UFOs
by both the media and politicians.

"I know that there's some sort of cover-up", Gordon said, adding
that she has traveled in many different countries where the
issue is addressed more openly.

Gordon said she gains little bits of information here and there
at conferences that allow her to piece together her own version
of the truth about extraterrestrials.

Keith Gingrus, who came from his home in Connecticut for the
conference, said he was just trying to be objective and see
where the evidence leads him.

Gingrus, who has been studying the subject in his free time
since 1990, said he believes there is some other intelligence or
consciousness out there.

"They might have some reason for us being here", he said.

Among the speakers at the event was Philip Corso Jr., the son of
the late Col. Philip J. Corso (ret.), who wrote about stewarding
the Roswell, N.M., alien artifacts in his book "The Day After
Roswell." The book addressed the July 1947 crash of an aircraft
many believe to be from another world.

In his Saturday afternoon speech, Corso told a crowd of more
than 100 in one conference room that his father, who had nine
levels of clearance above top secret in the Army, saw alien
bodies.

"He felt that the young people could handle the knowledge of
knowing that we have been visited", Corso said.

The government is keeping what happened in Roswell a secret
because it would reveal the secret to time travel, Corso said. A
UFO is able to achieve time travel by moving simultaneously in
many dimensions, he said.

After his speech, more than a dozen people crowded around Corso
in a hallway to ask questions.

James Randi, a Fort Lauderdale, Fla.-based investigator of
paranormal claims, said Monday he is very familiar with the UFO
"believers" who attend such conferences.

"It's very thrilling for some of them to belong to these sort of
groups because they have nothing else going for them", he said.

People who seek out other UFO believers are really just trying
to find happiness, friendship, companionship and magical answers
to the tough questions in life.

"They get a great deal of comfort out of one another's company",
he explained.

Randi, who is the author of several books, runs a nonprofit
foundation that offers a $1 million reward to anyone who can
show evidence of a paranormal or supernatural event in proper
observing conditions. A magician by trade, Randi tries to
demystify everything from UFOs to faith healing.

He said learning magic has taught him how people can be
misinformed by their sensory systems. People see things in the
sky all the time that they don't understand, he said.

"That doesn't mean that a UFO comes from extraterrestrial
sources", he said.

While Randi said the existence of life on other planets is
mathematically "inescapable", UFO believers have yet to show
proof of intelligent life, not to mention intelligent life that
has visited Earth.

Randi said he believes people who speak at UFO conferences
either believe themselves, are trying to scam people for money,
or a bit of both.

"There is a great deal of money to be made doing this", he said.


[UFO UpDates thanks Norm for the lead --ebk]







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   Apr > Apr 23

                          Re: Bible Code II - Shell

From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 11:51:08 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 15:15:33 -0400
Subject: Re: Bible Code II - Shell


>From: Linda Kerth <LINDAKERTH.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 00:55:53 EDT
>Subject: Re: Bible Code II

>Why is it that everytime a genuine mystery surfaces,
>the waters are immediately sullied by filth?

Nothing wrong with a little debunking. Nobody needs any more
bunk. There are plenty of REAL mysteries in the world without
having to chase around after a lot of bogus mysteries.

The only question that comes to mind when I read about all the
fabulous mystical powers these older cultures possess in their
writings or their oral traditions and so on, including the
Hebrews and the Hopi and any others, is if their magic is so
strong and true how come they generally get the stuffing whupped
out of them and their land taken away by a bunch of evil slobs
with superior weapons? Oh, well, I guess they're still fighting
the spiritual battle, and may win someday, but in the meantime
they're shuffled off to reservations or concentration camps. I
suppose they could be saving their enormous mystical power for a
rainy day, but when they start burning you by the millions in
ovens, I think that would qualify as a rainy day.

Maybe I'm just too darned practical. I prefer my power to have
some kind of tangible result.








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   Apr > Apr 23

                   Re: Albanian Close Encounters? - Aubeck

From: Chris Aubeck <caubeck.nul>
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 19:03:18 +0100 (BST)
Fwd Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 15:18:09 -0400
Subject: Re: Albanian Close Encounters? - Aubeck


>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 04:23:00 -0700
>Subject: Re: Albanian Close Encounters?

>>From: Albert Rosales <Garuda79.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 16:39:18 EDT
>>Subject: Albanian Close Encounters?

>>Hello Everyone,

>>I to make a statement: Of the more than 5,000 case
>>summaries in my files of close encounters, humanoid
>>reports, crashes, and other high strange phenomena,
>>I dont have a single case from the country of
>>Albania, does anybody have anything from there? None

>>of my contacts in Eastern Europe and Russia have
>> been able to help.

>Hello Alberto:

>I have absolutely no sightings listed for Albania in
>my entire database of 12,800 cases worldwide.

<snip>

Hi Albert, Larry,

If it's any consolation, Albania was the country chosen by the
extraterrestrials who came to inhabit the Earth in the tale "The
Two Martians" by T. T. Timayenis (published in the Indianapolis
Sunday Star, November 6th 1910).

"Many, many years ago, when your planet, the earth, was in her
primeval state -- at a time to which the memory of man runneth
not, centuries and centuries before the palaeocrystic strata of
the earth were formed, the planet Mars enjoyed a civilization to
which the earth has not yet reached. We also had our wars, our
upheavals, and our epics. Time and again we marched against our
Northern neighbours, the ferocious Pelasgians. After many years
of strife and incessant warfare, we subdued them, but in a large
number fled in their airships and landed in the northwestern
part of Greece, in a land known today as Albania. They were the
first settlers of your country. The Albanians of today are men
of your own flesh and blood. Later they emigrated to other
sections, giving the country a measure of civilization which in
the course of time made history for this wonderful land..."

Otherwise, I might suggest Scutari (see Vallee's Magonia
catalogue):

Nov. 02, 1885 Scutari (Turkey). A luminous object circled the
harbor. Altitude: 5-6 m. Illuminated the whole town. Duration: 1
1/2 min, as a bluish-green flame. Then plunged into the sea.
Made several circles above the ferry-boat pier. (LDLN 48;
Anatomy 14)

Although Scutari did not officially become Albanian till after
1913.


Regards,

Chris

http://embark.to/magonia








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   Apr > Apr 24

                Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers -

From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman.nul>
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 12:38:49 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 08:16:32 -0400
Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers -


>From: Steven Kaeser <steve.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 13:10:14 -0400
>Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers

>>From: Ed Gehrman <egehrman.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 11:44:41 -0700
>>Subject: Re: Alien Autopsy Footage Still No Answers

><snip>

>Ed-

>First of all, I'd have to get out maps, but I recall seeing
>several dry lake beds in the region on maps. Some of them were
>extremely old and that was one of the problems that Bob Shell
>and others had in trying to identify the site. There were too
>many potential lake beds to narrow it down.

I saw three possibilities and have visited them all. The crash
site is the only area in that immidiate vicinity that really
qualifies as a dry lake bed. The cameraman's directions limit
the choices. The drainage also limites the possibilities.

>Did you find the
>railroad tresstle that the cameraman said that he rode under on
>the way to the crash site?. He also described a ride that took
>some 45 minutes after he left Socorro, and I'd be interested in
>knowing what roads you took.

Hwy 60 toward Magdalena; took the last turnoff south before the
Magdalena Mts. This is a dirt road that winds around, and in
front of the "red pillars" (AKA the Box Canyon) and then up into
a small range of mountains and through the various mines and
debris piles and then out again onto the mesa. The cameraman
says he hugged the mountain, which is exactly what happens; he
stated that he crossed a wooden bridge which had been taken down
on his second visit to the site, about twenty years ago. Then,
he had to drive down into the canyon, which is the same road I
took and I think its the same road you took. It's the only road
that was in existence in 1947 and it serviced the mines in the
area and one lone ranch which is now burned and abandoned. There
are other ranches in the area but all were established after
1947.

After we left the mountain area, we headed south east and
followed the drainage through several arroyos. After about four
miles we arrived at the site which was noticeable immediately by
the blue material and the burned vegetation. The entire trip
from Socorro to the site is forty-five minutes to an hour,
depending on weather. Rain creates road problems.

>I've been to the Library of
>Congress and copied New Mexico maps for that part of the state
>in 1949, so I have an idea of what changes have been made and
>what roads existed at the time. I'd have to dig them out, but
>could probably do so if needed.

I think that would be a good idea.

>>I can't imagine what information you're using for this
>>conclusion. The site is defined by tons of cristobalite covering
>>rocks, outcroppings, sand and bacterial mats. This area is about
>>the size of three to four football fields.
>>There isn't a place like this anywhere on this earth.
>>There is absolutely no way to explain this accumulation of
>>cristobalite, or the huge quantity of the deposit, or how the
>>cameraman would know about it.

>>"Cristobalite occurs in igneous rocks located in areas of
>>volcanic activity. It rarely occurs in detectable samples. Some
>>localities where noticeable material has come from are:Cerro San
>>Cristobal, Pachua, Mexico (the origination of its name); Little
>>Lake, Coso Hot Springs, Inyo Co., California; the San Juan
>>Mountains in Colorado; Obsidian Cliff in Yellowstone National
>>Park, Wyoming; Mt. Lassen in Lassen Volcanic National Park in
>>California; and Crater Lake National Park, Klamath Co., Oregon."

>>http://www.minerals.net/mineral/silicate/tecto/quartz/cristobl.htm

>If you want to make this as a major issue, please contact a
>geologist who is willing to go on the record and state that
>there is no known explanation for what you've found there.

This is much harder than you think. First of all there are only
a few geologists who understand cristobalite and I've contacted
all I could find. Out of four, only one bothered to reply to my
request for assistance and he refused to get involved after I
sent him some photos. He indicated that cristobalite wasn't
found in such quantities and must have thought I was scamming
him.

>Simply citing quotations from a text isn't going to prove
>anything to those who have no background in the subject.

What I wanted to prove by the quote was how unusual it is to
find this quantity of cristobalite: "It rarely occurs in
detectable samples."

>anomoly of importance should be easy to identify and I'd be most
>interested in seeing a geologist from the New Mexico School of
>Mines in Socorro make that determination. Your making this as a
>statement of fact carries little importance in a real sense.

I've been to the school of mines and they were less than
helpful. They identified the sample as igneous calcite. But now
we know for sure that the material is cristobalite. If I could
find someone from the School of Mines who would visit the site,
I'd be more than willing to guide.

The first geologist who examined the material said he didn't know
what it was and was surpristed that he didn't. I now know why.
There actually is nothing like it.

>>That isn't all: there is obvious evidence of scorching heat,
>>from above, across most of the site.

>>>Bob also believes there's
>>>nothing more to learn about the AA "film" unless Ray Santilli
>>>finally opens up, and I tend to agree.

>>I can't be limited by Ray's reluctance to "open up", but if it
>>works for you, it's fine with me.

>So, you like the idea of simply making up the facts to fill the
>gaps in this..... <g>

No absolutely not! I believe Ray and the cameraman and I don't
find any holes in the story. Why put our research on hold simply
because Ray isn't as cooperative as we'd like him to be?

>The problem is that without Ray's involvement, the entire
>"cameraman" story falls to pieces and all you have are images in
>an unidentified video. I'm not interested in chasing what might
>be trus based only on my own beliefs.

But Ray insists that his version of these events is truthful and
there is no evidence that it isn't. The cameraman has given
directions to a crash site covered with blue, glass-like
material and that site has been found. He has also directed a
drawing of the site that is accurate in very specific details.
We really don't have any reasons to think he's a fraud, except
his story is so surreal and unbelievable. But so is the whole
subject (UFO and Aliens).

>>>But I'm prompted to write because of the continued reference
>>>to the "Cameraman's" directions and earlier references to his
>>>"drawing" of the crash site. I'm sure I'll be corrected if
>>>I'm in error, but to my knowledge the "cameraman" has provided
>>>no written material in his own hand.

>>It was my understanding that the cameraman drew the crude map
>>marking the location of the site. It was very general, but
>>accurate as far as it went. I didn't rely on this map except in
>>a general way. I used topographical maps and followed the
>>drainage patterns to find old accumulations of water and several
>>probable sites. I just didn't know if they would be accessible.

>>>The description of the site was written by Ray Santilli,
>>>as he alleges the "cameraman" described it.

>>Yes, I believe that's correct. I gleaned the cameraman's
>>directions from accounts by the various searchers.(Glen
>>Campbell, Michael H, Bob Shell and others) The information you
>>provided was excellent and a great help.

>>>The map was created
>>>by an artist, who listened to the description by the "cameraman"
>>>by telephone. He never saw the actual map that was drawn, to my
>>>knowledge, and researchers at the time realized how limited in
>>>value it was.

>>I didn't know that story. I thought the map was drawn by the
>>cameraman; it's very accurate and could not have been created by
>>chance. But this "map" should not be confused with the
>>cameraman's drawings of the site and crash scene, which is
>>another matter entirely.

>This facet of the story was brought up in an earlier discussion
>with you, but it might have been buried.
I may have thought we were discussing the drawings.

>To my knowledge, the
>"Cameraman" has provided no actual written material. Period.
>Every scrap of information has come from a voice on a telephone,
>arranged by Santilli at his office, from Santilli's recollection
>of discussions that he's held with the Cameraman, and from a
>video that the cameraman made.

OK

>Good luck in the quest, and keep us posted on any new
>developments. I hope you find the "smoking gun" and can prove
>everyone wrong about the "film".

I don't want to prove anyone wrong. I'd like to start a working
group to study the site and explore all aspects of the
cameraman's story and drawings. I've found the "smoking gun" but
it seems way to hot for anyone else to handle.


Ed








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   Apr > Apr 24

              Re: 'Other Folk' Or 'Parallel Race' Theme - Hatch

From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 13:55:45 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 08:26:39 -0400
Subject: Re: 'Other Folk' Or 'Parallel Race' Theme - Hatch


>From: Jerome Clark <jkclark.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 16:54:46 -0500
>Subject: Re: 'Other Folk' Or 'Parallel Race' Theme

>>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 14:01:29 -0700
>>Subject: Re: 'Other Folk' Or 'Parallel Race' Theme

<snip>

>>Hello Jerry, Terry, all:

>>Can someone provide the date and place for the Trasco case? I
>>don't catalog by names like Trasco. It definitely rings a bell,
>>and I may need to adjust a record based on Jerry's input.

>Larry,

>I assume you have a copy of Michel's Flying Saucers and the
>Straight-Line Mystery.

Yes I do.

>There is an appendix by Alexander D. Mebane, titled "The 1957
>Saucer Wave in the United States." The Trasco tale is discussed
>on pp. 273-74. The incident allegedly took place "about dusk on
>November 6" at or near Everittstown, New Jersey. Mebane writes
>that "seasoned newspaperman Richard Harpster of nearby
>Washington, N.J.," interviewed Mrs. Trasco.

>As I've stated earlier, I've heard that a subsequent meeting
>with the Trascos, by ufologist Jules St. Germain, produced
>reason to suspect a hoax. I can't prove this was a hoax, of
>course, but the individual who related this to me - a few years
>ago - was someone I tend to credit. And to repeat myself again,
>the details of the story alone strike me as unlikely, even as
>exotic CE3s go.

Thanks much for the input, always welcome.

The date and place name led me straight to the listing here,
Besides Michel, it was in Loren Gross' booklet #7 for 1957 page
56, plus FSR Vol.16 #4, and Lorenzen: Encounters with UFO
Occupants, page 177..... It got kicked around a lot.

I will certainly adjust the Credibility rating.


Best wishes

- Larry











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   Apr > Apr 24

                         St Tropez France UFO Photos

From: Brian Vike HBCC UFO <hbccufo.nul>
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 14:01:59 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 08:31:01 -0400
Subject: St Tropez France UFO Photos


St Tropez, France (UFO Photos)

Date: August 5, 2003
Time: 11:30 a.m.

Photos can be viewed at: http://www.hbccufo.com/index.php

Hi Brian,

Well The picture I sent you was taken on the 5th of August 2003
at about 11.30 am in St Tropez . Now I know its now April 2004
but its the first time I have looked at the photo's. The story
began two weeks ago when I was taking some photo's of chemtrails
outside my house.When I returned home I was looking at the
photo's and noticed a dark object in the sky above the chemtrail
(picture included).As I zoomed into the picture it appeared to
be unidentified.Well as you zoom into the picture there seems to
be a figure of eight around the dark object, similar to an
energy field. Well this was the first thing I had caught on film
so I was very excited and called my brother In law who then came
round to look at the image. He said he would check all his
photo's to see if he had anything similar on film. He called me
and said he had unidentified things on a number of pictures he
had taken on our previous holiday last year in France.Its only
then that I decided to look through the pictures I had on the
same holiday. I know this sounds strange but all I had done is
flick through the photo's and think nothing of it.I used an
ordinary 35mm camera on this holiday and had the photo's
developed and printed, as well as put on a CD rom.Well last week
is the first time I have looked at the CD rom and I cannot
believe what I saw, which is the photo I first emailed you. I
can say that when I was taking the photo's I noticed nothing,
and at the times I was taking pictures of other things

I have included the first picture which triggered me looking at
all my photo's.This one was taken on the 4th of April at 10.30
a.m. outside my house with a digital camera I have now
purchased.You need to look above the trail and zoom in

If you want anymore pictures please let me know as me and
brother in law seem to have a collection.

I have included a picture that was taken last year while on
holiday in the South of France with my family. I only looked at
the photo on the digital disk last week because of a strange
object my brother in law has on multiple photo's he took while
on holiday with me. To my amazement there seems to be nine
objects in the sky at the same time.I can say that when the
photo was taken I noticed nothing unusual because I was
concentrating on taking a good shot of the boat in the picture.I
have included it in this email and I have others with strange
things in the sky if you are interested.

I have the original shot in print and the negative. This is no
hoax and to be honest I was quite alarmed when I first saw the
pictures.

I am willing to supply the negatives for further analysis

-----


Brian Vike, Director
HBCC UFO Research
Home - Phone 250 845 2189
email: hbccufo.nul
Website: http://www.hbccufo.com
Redirect: http://www.brianvike.com
Redirect: http://www.hbccuforesearch.com









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   Apr > Apr 24

                Silvery But Translucent Saucer Terrace, B.C.

From: Brian Vike HBCC UFO <hbccufo.nul>
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 15:24:00 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 08:34:12 -0400
Subject: Silvery But Translucent Saucer Terrace, B.C.


Howdy List,

Well just got over the flu bug, anyway here is an interesting,
but short report below. Also there was an amazing sighting in
Smithers, British Columbia also recently which I still have to
type of and post. The Smithers Interior Newspaper will be
running a small article on it as told by the eye witness.

Take care

Brian

-----

Terrace, B.C. - Silvery But Translucent Saucer
Date: April 19, 2004
Topic: British Columbia Reports

Hi Brian,

I would like to report a sighting.

I was sitting, today at 2121 hrs, on my steps looking east when
a silvery low flight disk flew right above me. The object was
actually silvery but translucent...clear round shape but looked
a little " watery ". Object was roughly 40-50 meters high and
had a diameter of +- 6 - 10 meters. It would be hard to spot but
it flew right into my vision.. and disappeared straight west.
Very fast speed because I could see it only for 3 - 4 seconds. I
was by myself..

Brian Vike
Director HBCC UFO Research
Home - Phone 250 845 2189
email: hbccufo.nul
Website: http://www.hbccufo.com
Redirect: http://www.brianvike.com
Redirect: http://www.hbccuforesearch.com








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   Apr > Apr 24

                    Re: Mars Rover Anomalies - Scheldroup

From: John Scheldroup <jschel.nul>
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 19:24:25 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 08:38:22 -0400
Subject: Re: Mars Rover Anomalies - Scheldroup


>From: Robert Grass <RDGRASS.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 04:11:36 EDT
>Subject: Re: Mars Rover Anomalies

>>From: John Scheldroup <jschel.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 20:06:22 -0500
>>Subject: Re: Mars Rover Anomalies

><snip>

>>Do the "sky bugs" know for certain that it would take one giant
>>leap forward of human experience before they can colonize the
>>planet Mars even in small numbers ?

>>Do the "sky bugs" know about the capabilities built-in to this
>>rover that are needed to criss cross this mountain terrain over
>>great distance that it must be limited ?

>>1. We are not going to colonize Mars anytime in the foreseeable
>>future.

>>2. We are not going to find any alien base using this spirit
>>rover.

>>To eliminate the impossible can only mean simple reasoning with
>>thought.

>>3. We are making this historical excersise to track their
>>progress the closer they can obtain to parts 1 and 2.

>>In the meantime Brian, it's just an anomaly. <G>

>John,

>With all due respect, nothing in your post was either stated or
>implied regarding this subject.


Robert,

Oh come now the respect is all mine.

It was merely in reference to the Alien "sky bugs" that were in
question, when if these are not some anomaly, what could it be
that they are up to.....

An ounce worth of midnight philosophy not meant to harm anyone
that's in harms way.

Take care,

John







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              Re: Are We Making Any Ground Toward Disclosure? -

From: Kelly Freeman <Khfflsciufo.nul>
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 20:33:18 EDT
Fwd Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 08:40:33 -0400
Subject: Re: Are We Making Any Ground Toward Disclosure? -


>From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 13:37:59 EDT
>Subject: Are We Making Any Ground Toward Disclosure?

<snip>

>Has there ever been a March On UFOs? Or a demonstration that
>was newsworthy?

>Maybe we need a 'Million Abductee March' or something.

>Just think, a million people marching on Washington D.C. bucking
>for disclosure about UFOs. That'd be newsworthy.

Hello Greg and List,

Greg, I think that would be a great idea, if we could only find
enough hearts and minds committed enough to organize such an
event. It would take a large grass- roots effort on no less a
scale than what the peace move- ment had organized back in the
1980's for the Nuclear Weapons Freeze Campaign. I was part of
that movement, and at the very least, a debate was generated
that forced our "leaders" to answer questions publicly that they
may well not have done without the pressure from thousands of
concerned citizens who were worried about the threat of nuclear
desruction.

Even though the situation in no better today, perhaps even
worse, the important thing is that debates took place,
initiatives to educate the public were undertaken, and  leaders
at every level of government were forced to take a position on
the Nuclear Weapons Freeze. I can imagine a strategy similar to
the one the peace movement adopted that could be applied to UFO
Secrecy.

An End UFO Secrecy campaign would not only be at the national
level, but it could also be on a global scale. Just think about
it. Ufologists, researchers/investigators, abductees, and
the_witnesses to UFO sightings united and working together for a
common cause. Now that would be something. Perhaps now is the
time. But of course, we wouldn't know unless we tried.


Have a great day....:)


Kelly








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                 Re: Moon UFO No Longer Unidentified - Groff

From: Terry Groff <terry.nul>
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 20:07:25 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 08:42:13 -0400
Subject: Re: Moon UFO No Longer Unidentified - Groff


Would whoever sent me the private email on this subject/thread
please resend it.

I hit the delete button on my MailWasher before I actually
noticed the subject line. This totally erases mail off of my
server so it's impossible to retrieve.

Sorry 'bout that.


Terry








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                     Re: Magonia's Second Website - Hale

From: Roy Hale <roy.nul>
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 03:09:28 +0100
Fwd Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 08:43:51 -0400
Subject: Re: Magonia's Second Website - Hale


>From: John Rimmer <jrimmer.nul>
>To: updates.nul
>Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 20:46:13 +0100
>Subject: Magonia's Second Website

>List members might be interested in checking out Magonia
>magazine's second website. Conducted by John Harney, this site
>will be used initially to archive the very earliest days of the
>Magonia evolutionary chain, the Merseyside UFO Research Group
>Bulletin.

>http://magonia.mysite.freeserve.com


John,

Just one thing lacking about your new mirrored site < content!>.

Although I quite like the beer talk picture, now lets hope that
decisions on UFO cases are not solved at the table!


Roy








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              Re: X-Conference Draws Hundreds To Gaithersburg -

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 22:29:04 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 08:52:49 -0400
Subject: Re: X-Conference Draws Hundreds To Gaithersburg -


>Source: The Gazette - Gaithersburg, Maryland

>http://www.gazette.net/200417/gaithersburg/news/212780-1.html

>04-21-04

>X-Conference Draws Hundreds Of Believers To Gaithersburg

>by

>Brooke W. Stanley
>Staff Writer

>The certainty of alien life on Earth is usually not at the top
>of the list of socially acceptable topics of conversation.

>Yet those wishing to delve into such a realm found a sounding
>board in Gaithersburg this weekend, as people from all over the
>nation flooded the Hilton to discuss and learn about all things
>extraterrestrial at the X-Conference.

<snip>

>James Randi, a Fort Lauderdale, Fla.-based investigator of
>paranormal claims, said Monday he is very familiar with the UFO
>"believers" who attend such conferences.

Ahhhhhh, the AMUSING Randi. What does he know about UFOs?

<snip>

>"There is a great deal of money to be made doing this", he said.

<LOL> Another good joke from the amusing Randi.








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               Re: X-Conference Draws Hundreds To Gaithersburg

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 23:15:21 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 08:56:15 -0400
Subject: Re: X-Conference Draws Hundreds To Gaithersburg


I presented two papers at the X-Conference.

One on the FBI file and the knowlege it provides about the early
days.

The longer paper was about the amazing "Legacy of 1952", the
year they screwed the lid on tight and the "fix" was in! (...it
was a very good year.... for UFOs and cover up).

Now you can also learn what happened that amazing year from the
CD I made which includes the conference papers and power point
presentations as well as other goodies.

Contact me directly through my web site:

http://www.brucemaccabee.com.








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                           Mars Crater Water Lake

From: Colin Stevenson <colsweb.nul>
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 06:22:59 +0100
Fwd Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 08:59:01 -0400
Subject: Mars Crater Water Lake



MSIP: Multinational Research in the Southern Hemisphere
(Released 22 April 2004)

Mars Odyssey Themis image shows water lake in the Southern
Hemisphere of Mars at -67 degrees N?

http://themis.la.asu.edu/zoom-20040422a.html


Enlargement:

http://themis.la.asu.edu/fullimages/20040422a.gif

(2254 KB)


Relevant area extract from above:

http://www.colsweb.com/MarsLakeQuestion.jpg

(54 KB)

Seems also to indicate a River to the left?

Yet another to add to the collection.


Colin Stevenson








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                           UFOs A Modest Proposal

From: Josh Crockett <thirdeyeching.nul>
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 16:11:56 EDT
Fwd Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 09:45:40 -0400
Subject: UFOs A Modest Proposal


Source: Unknown Country

http://www.unknowncountry.com/mindframe/opinion/

04-23-04

UFOs: A Modest Proposal
by Will Hart

While the objectives of the Disclosure Project are laudable, by
now ufologists surely realize that the government is not going
to cooperate by opening the secret files. Instead of throwing in
the towel or hanging our heads I think it is time to establish
an agenda that acknowledges the volatile politics of the
subject.

As a scientific topic the study of UFOs was sabotaged in the
late 1940s. Official military spokesman poisoned the well by
claiming that military pilots had mistaken the planet Venus for
a UFO and normal people had really seen swamp gas and not flying
saucers. These 'officials' even claimed that some people who
made such reports were 'nuts.' This skewed the public's
perception of the phenomenon in a way that has made is all but
impossible to engage in serious social discourse to this day.

The mass media has always treated the topic as a sideshow to the
'hard' political, social and science news. As a result, it has
not been embraced by academia nor have normally curious
scientists rushed to the fore with requests to conduct UFO
research. Politically, ufologists were sandbagged long ago.
Official denial, cover-ups, half-hearted scientific
investigations and ridicule inflicted a lot of damage.

In spite of all this negativity, serious independent research
has moved forward and the case for the existence of UFOs has
become very solid; the field is surely worthy of institutional
study and funding. That said I would like to propose that even
though it appears that the field is treading water I am
convinced that progress can be made along several fronts. I have
been waiting many years for the mass media to treat the topic in
a serious manner, it finally happened in recent months.

February 20, 2004 marked the 50th anniversary of President
Eisenhower's alleged secret meeting with extraterrestrials at
Edwards Air Force Base. I admit to being astonished to finding
an article with a no-nonsense tone commemorating this even
published in the Washington Post. Turning to other recent cases
I noticed that there has been a subtle shift in coverage.
Reporters are actually reporting without the tongue-in-cheek
'ha, ha, ha, little green men' undertone. The 'Triangle' that
was spotted near St. Louis was treated seriously.

I think it is time for UFO writers and researchers to hit the
mass media with more in-depth pieces that explores the
phenomenon in general way. Most of the coverage is still focused
on the sensational aspects of single events. Getting respect,
however, should be the first goal instead of whining over the
failure to get full disclosure. The second important item that
could be achieved is to challenge the way the phenomenon has
been wrongly classified. Put under the proper scientific
criteria, along with history, sociology and psychology, is the
second leg of this modest proposal.

These may sound like very small issues, however, they can work
synergistically to explode the old paradigm and usher
in a new era of open, scientific inquiry and dialogue.







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                   Re: Albanian Close Encounters? - Hatch

From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 02:05:56 -0700
Fwd Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 09:55:09 -0400
Subject: Re: Albanian Close Encounters? - Hatch


>From: Chris Aubeck <caubeck.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 19:03:18 +0100 (BST)
>Subject: Re: Albanian Close Encounters?

>>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 02:03:11 -0700
>>Subject: Re: Albanian Close Encounters?

<snip>

>>I have absolutely no sightings listed for Albania in
>>my entire database of 12,800 cases worldwide.

>If it's any consolation, Albania was the country chosen by the
>extraterrestrials who came to inhabit the Earth in the tale "The
>Two Martians" by T. T. Timayenis (published in the Indianapolis
>Sunday Star, November 6th 1910).

<snip>

>Otherwise, I might suggest Scutari (see Vallee's
>Magonia catalogue):

>Nov. 02, 1885 Scutari (Turkey). A luminous object circled the
>harbor. Altitude: 5-6 m.

>Illuminated the whole town. Duration: 1 1/2 min, as a bluish-
>green flame. Then plunged into the sea. Made several circles
>above the ferry-boat pier. (LDLN 48; Anatomy 14) although
>Scutari did not officially become Albanian till after 1913.


How odd! It was quite a job finding Scutari, Turkey:

#136: 1885/11/02 29:02E 41:01N 3332 MDE TRK KDK
SCUTARI,TURKEY:FBL-SCR CIRCLES PIER/6M ALT:BLINDING LITES:
SINKS QUIETLY /r2 VALLEE:UFOS IN SPACE:Anatomy/phenon. Pg.21

With those coordinates, I finally found it across the Straits of
Bosporus near Istanbul, a good place for a ferry boat pier BTW.

A Google search for 'Scutari Turkey' (disallowing UFO) returns
some 2500 web pages. Here's the first one which explains some
name confusion, its also called UskUdar ..

http://reference.allrefer.com/encyclopedia/X/X-ScutarTur.html

There's an art print of the place at:

http://print.exploitz.com/Scutari-Istanbul-art.php

and there's a lot more, history etc.

I vaguely recall getting sidetracked into Albania or some such
as well. That never panned out.


Best

- Larry










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              Re: X-Conference Draws Hundreds To Gaithersburg -

From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul>
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 08:06:20 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 10:39:42 -0400
Subject: Re: X-Conference Draws Hundreds To Gaithersburg -


>Source: The Gazette - Gaithersburg, Maryland

>http://www.gazette.net/200417/gaithersburg/news/212780-1.html

>04-21-04

>X-Conference Draws Hundreds Of Believers To Gaithersburg

>by

>Brooke W. Stanley
>Staff Writer

>The certainty of alien life on Earth is usually not at the top
>of the list of socially acceptable topics of conversation.

Oh - Ok... along with what? Incest? Kiddie porn? Sport
Defecation? Oozing body lesions? Suicide? The 'writer' has an
expansive ignorance, an obvious bias, and a non-constructive
attitude going here... all at the same time. Quite an
accomplishment! Additionally, when was it decided, and who is it
who makes UFOs an "unacceptable" topic of conversation? I submit
that it is _you_ Ms. Stanley!

>Yet those wishing to delve into such a realm found a sounding
>board in Gaithersburg this weekend, as people from all over the
>nation flooded the Hilton to discuss and learn about all things
>extraterrestrial at the X-Conference.

"Wishing to Delve..." This women has no clue how far off the
mark she is, has no concept what she's talking about, and should
turn in whatever journalistic certificate of achievement she
thinks she has and write, instead, for laxative commercials, if
they'll have her.

>They seemed as comfortable discussing aliens as they would be
>discussing the weather.

Yes - it comes from familiarity with the subject, respect for
the subject, and the bravery to be interested in the subject.
These are three areas where Ms. Stanley is, clearly, more than a
little deficient.

>Between 580 and 590 shelled out $45 a day to hear some of the 25
>experts from five different countries talk about everything from
>government cover-ups to parallel dimensions.

What fools, huh? What pathetic loons blowing mucous bubbles from
their noses, huh? Throwing that money away when they could be
saving for a smart bag, a new SUV, or a summer cruise... no
cover-ups in _our_ government, by golly!

>The Paradigm Research Group, a Bethesda-based organization that
>provides services such as political consulting and fund-raising
>for researchers and activists involved with extraterrestrial
>phenomena, organized conference.

Which is about as close to accuracy, truth in reporting, and
journalistic integrity as we ever see in this piece!

>The group was founded in 1996 by Montgomery County resident
>Stephen Bassett, who ran for Congress in 2002 in hopes of
>drawing attention to the government cover-up of alien
>incursions.

She's to be commended here for keeping _most_ of the smirk out
of this paragraph.

>Connie Guy, of Myersville, said she decided to attend the
>conference after a speech Bassett made at her church piqued her
>interest in UFOs.

Astonishing that Ms. Guy was able to push through the reporter's
bias to make a statement out of concern regarding what Mr.
Bassett had to say at her... church? Or was this some stealthy
device to give indication for Ms. Guys 'obvious' feeble-
mindedness? A churchgoer and interested in UFOs?

>"I think they're here", Guy said of aliens. " I think they're
>present. I think they're probably among us."

>Guy believes humans can learn a lot from extraterrestrials.

Well - we better learn something from someone! It's a given we
won't be learning anything substantive from the canted and
conflicted reporting proffered by this smirking reporter and her
lapdog editors!

>"I believe that the beings that are outside of our awareness can
>help us because they know a lot of things we have yet to
>understand", Guy said.

>Specifically, she believes extraterrestrials have harnessed
>energy in a way humans have not, and hopes that such technology
>can end the world's dependence on oil that has led to extreme
>human greed.

The reporter would have a 'problem' with that?

>Guy's husband, Ted Jenkins, also attended the conference but had
>a less concrete belief in aliens.

>"I believe in only the possibility", Jenkins said.

>Jenkins said he has seen lights in the sky both in this area and
>in other parts of the country that move, stop and then change
>direction. But he is not jumping to any conclusions.

I suspect that this reporter would have a problem driving down a
four-lane highway to a _foregone_ conclusion!

>"I've seen things that I couldn't explain", he said. "...I don't
>know what I saw."

>Jenkins said he believes knowledge of other intelligent life
>forms can be dangerous. An actual sighting of an alien could
>make someone go crazy, he said.

Artless, dismissive, and biased reporting drives _me_ crazy!

>"It just shakes them out of their environment too much", he
>said.

>Aliens also pose a threat to religious beliefs, Jenkins said.

>"The basic idea of extraterrestrials challenges most religions",
>he said.

Hot flash? Mr. Jenkins is spot on and an antithesis to favor-
currying, latch-key, and reflexive faux-journalists!

>Among the vendors selling a plethora of UFO books and videos was
>Guy Malone, a self-described missionary who moved from
>Nashville, Tenn. to Roswell, N.M. in 1999 to teach Christianity
>to people who have had alien encounters.

Oh! This was the closest the reporter could come to a foil-hat
wearing ufological circus performer? Where were her comments
from the decidedly non-hat wearing? Jim Marrs was there! Steven
Bassett was there! Linda Howe was there! Stanton Friedman was
there! Nick Pope was there! Richard Dolan was there!

>Malone was selling both his book, "Come Sail Away", and T-shirts
>that said "A Single Ufologist's Biggest Problem? All the good
>ones are taken!" Taken, as in abducted, Malone explained.

Bruce Maccabbe was there! Timothy Good was there! Tom Van
Flandren was there! She picks the non-name carnival huckster and
ardent fundamentalist! Her report is fatuous, canted, and not a
little misleading, at _best_, folks!

>All joking aside, Malone said he believes the beings people
>describe in alien encounters are actually fallen angels, not
>extraterrestrials.

As it turns out? The "joke" in this piece was just getting
started! Read on!

>The Bible has the oldest and most accurate description of these
>beings, Malone said. "I do believe the Bible has those answers
>people are looking for", he said.

>Malone, who owns a biblical bookstore in Roswell, said he hopes
>to keep people away from UFO cult religions, such as Heaven's
>Gate, which only take people further into dealings with fallen
>angels.

This is as close to the bone as this reporter was willing to go?
Heaven's Gate? Does the reader perceive the splattering paint
from her blandly immaterial brush?

>"Typically the church shuns those type of people so they go
>somewhere else looking for answers", Malone said.

>Rebecca Gordon, who lives in Boulder, Colo., said the conference
>was one of more than 10 she has attended all over the country
>and the world.

>Gordon, 35, said she saw a UFO while driving just outside of
>Lake Tahoe in California when she was 17. It was in a valley and
>shot off into the distance very quickly, she said.

>"[It was] just a light in the sky - nothing exciting, but I
>knew it wasn't from here, so I started reading about it", Gordon
>said.

>She said she is fascinated by the lack of attention paid to UFOs
>by both the media and politicians.

Not so, Ms. Gordon! Look at the fair and balanced reporting
proffered here! Not!

>"I know that there's some sort of cover-up", Gordon said, adding
>that she has traveled in many different countries where the
>issue is addressed more openly.

>Gordon said she gains little bits of information here and there
>at conferences that allow her to piece together her own version
>of the truth about extraterrestrials.

>Keith Gingrus, who came from his home in Connecticut for the
>conference, said he was just trying to be objective and see
>where the evidence leads him.

>Gingrus, who has been studying the subject in his free time
>since 1990, said he believes there is some other intelligence or
>consciousness out there.

>"They might have some reason for us being here", he said.

>Among the speakers at the event was Philip Corso Jr., the son of
>the late Col. Philip J. Corso (ret.), who wrote about stewarding
>the Roswell, N.M., alien artifacts in his book "The Day After
>Roswell." The book addressed the July 1947 crash of an aircraft
>many believe to be from another world.

The _one_ speaker that Victor Viggiani - on last Saturday
night's - Strange Days... Indeed - found more than a little
indigestible and credulity straining, and he's going to get
_five_ freaking paragraphs! This is _balanced_ reporting?

>In his Saturday afternoon speech, Corso told a crowd of more
>than 100 in one conference room that his father, who had nine
>levels of clearance above top secret in the Army, saw alien
>bodies.

>"He felt that the young people could handle the knowledge of
>knowing that we have been visited", Corso said.

>The government is keeping what happened in Roswell a secret
>because it would reveal the secret to time travel, Corso said. A
>UFO is able to achieve time travel by moving simultaneously in
>many dimensions, he said.

>After his speech, more than a dozen people crowded around Corso
>in a hallway to ask questions.

Five freaking paragraphs! What baldly transparent and egregious
spin-meistering is _this_!?

>James Randi, a Fort Lauderdale, Fla.-based investigator of
>paranormal claims, said Monday he is very familiar with the UFO
>"believers" who attend such conferences.

James Randi? RANDI? This was the best reporting possible?

>"It's very thrilling for some of them to belong to these sort of
>groups because they have nothing else going for them", he said.

>People who seek out other UFO believers are really just trying
>to find happiness, friendship, companionship and magical answers
>to the tough questions in life.

>"They get a great deal of comfort out of one another's company",
>he explained.

>Randi, who is the author of several books, runs a nonprofit
>foundation that offers a $1 million reward to anyone who can
>show evidence of a paranormal or supernatural event in proper
>observing conditions. A magician by trade, Randi tries to
>demystify everything from UFOs to faith healing.

>He said learning magic has taught him how people can be
>misinformed by their sensory systems. People see things in the
>sky all the time that they don't understand, he said.

>"That doesn't mean that a UFO comes from extraterrestrial
>sources", he said.

>While Randi said the existence of life on other planets is
>mathematically "inescapable", UFO believers have yet to show
>proof of intelligent life, not to mention intelligent life that
>has visited Earth.

>Randi said he believes people who speak at UFO conferences
>either believe themselves, are trying to scam people for money,
>or a bit of both.

Eight paragraphs from a dodgy ideologue stage-magician with a
known bias and conflicted worldview who won't pay off on his
promises and was not even _at_ the conference? Lady, now you
urinate on my leg and call it rain! Your bias is _clear_, Ms.
Stanley, and a name to be remembered as a bad example of your
tortured and ever more discredited craft! Remember this name,
folks! Brooke W. Stanley! The only value she has to her
profession is as a bad example!

>"There is a great deal of money to be made doing this", he said.

Suppurating flap-doodle! The only money to be _really_ "made" is
in shooting "this" down, as in pieces _like_ this! Randi, by way
of example, has made a PILE prosecuting same! Many CSICOPians
have.

Now - will someone write a _real_ story?


alienview.nul

EXPLORE "AlienViewGroup" at its HostPros URL.
http://www.alienview.net


JOHN FORD RESTORATION FUND - John will be released eventually.
He'll need a tax free cash stake to get on his feet. Let's put
one together for him; the bigger it is - the more attention
he gets. It could have been you. E-mail for detail.
$450.00 pledged - $300.00 collected!

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite.
What others see from afar, I leave far behind me."
- Giordano Bruno, scourged by the scabrously specious scurrilous.








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                Re: Moon UFO No Longer Unidentified - Fleming

From: Lan Fleming <lfleming5.nul>
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 08:51:55 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 10:42:14 -0400
Subject: Re: Moon UFO No Longer Unidentified - Fleming


>From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>UFO UpDates <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 17:07:20 -0400
>Subject: Moon UFO No Longer Unidentified

>Source: RedNova.com

>http://www.rednova.com/news/stories/1/2004/04/22/story004.html

>April 22, 2004

>Moon UFO No Longer Unidentified

>NASA -- UFOs aren't necessarily alien spacecraft. And some
>purported UFOs aren't UFOs at all. Take the example from Apollo
>16.

The enhancement shown in the article is convincing. In the
version of the film available on the net, the boom attached to
the "UFO" only shows up as a small faint streak that is easy to
dismiss as a camera artifact. However, the image quality is not
nearly as good as the quality of the image shown in this
article.

Whoever it was who has the copy of the film from which the
Internet version was derived might want to have it digitized at
high resolution just to verify the results. But I expect that
the boom is really there. With the exception of the time stamps
on the STS-48 video, I've never seen anything to suggest that
NASA adds things to images that weren't in the original.

Speaking of the shuttle videos, I wonder if somebody at NASA has
ever done an analysis of the STS-48 and STS-80 videos as
carefully as the one apparently done on this Apollo 16 film. And
if they did, would they be likely to ever publicly announce the
results of their analysis if their conclusion was that the
objects in the video were not debris from the space shuttle? My
guess is that the answer to the first question is yes, and the
answer to the second is no. That would be in accord with
military regulations that only investigations leading to prosaic
explanations of UFO cases may be officially released.








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              Re: Are We Making Any Ground Toward Disclosure? -

From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul>
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 09:13:39 -0500
Fwd Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 10:47:42 -0400
Subject: Re: Are We Making Any Ground Toward Disclosure? -


>From: Kelly Freeman <Khfflsciufo.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 20:33:18 EDT
>Subject: Re: Are We Making Any Ground Toward Disclosure?

>>From: Greg Boone <Evolbaby.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 13:37:59 EDT
>>Subject: Are We Making Any Ground Toward Disclosure?

><snip>

>>Has there ever been a March On UFOs? Or a demonstration that
>>was newsworthy?

>>Maybe we need a 'Million Abductee March' or something.

>>Just think, a million people marching on Washington D.C. bucking
>>for disclosure about UFOs. That'd be newsworthy.

>Greg, I think that would be a great idea, if we could only find
>enough hearts and minds committed enough to organize such an
>event. It would take a large grass- roots effort on no less a
>scale than what the peace move- ment had organized back in the
>1980's for the Nuclear Weapons Freeze Campaign. I was part of
>that movement, and at the very least, a debate was generated
>that forced our "leaders" to answer questions publicly that they
>may well not have done without the pressure from thousands of
>concerned citizens who were worried about the threat of nuclear
>desruction.

>Even though the situation in no better today, perhaps even
>worse, the important thing is that debates took place,
>initiatives to educate the public were undertaken, and leaders
>at every level of government were forced to take a position on
>the Nuclear Weapons Freeze. I can imagine a strategy similar to
>the one the peace movement adopted that could be applied to UFO
>Secrecy.

>An End UFO Secrecy campaign would not only be at the national
>level, but it could also be on a global scale. Just think about
>it. Ufologists, researchers/investigators, abductees, and
>the_witnesses to UFO sightings united and working together for a
>common cause. Now that would be something. Perhaps now is the
>time. But of course, we wouldn't know unless we tried.

Seems to me that Steven Bassett's mock campaign could be just
that kind of vehicle we could _all_ catch a ride on... vis a vis
this "modest proposal," but with a twist.

I mean Steve's a great guy and all but we're not getting behind
him to enrich 'him', so much... I mean how many of us are going
to contribute to alleviate the losses he'll inevitably incur as
a result of _not_ winning? He'll get 500 a week from Showtime
for about seven weeks... it's a long shot that he'll walk off
with the 200- large prize, at all... he'll have every rabid
CSICOPian, scurrilous skeptibunky, and flatulent pelicanist in
the known universe at his throat if it looks like he's a hit on
the show. Face it... there are those who won't want Steve
getting this kind of 'face' time... Think about it.

But to _your_ point. We're a million (10 million!) man and woman
'cyber' march - right now! With the 'button' to make it _happen_
available to everyone - right now! "Right now!", is right now!

Here's the button...

http://www.americancandidate.com/candidate_homepage.php?id1

alienview.nul

EXPLORE "AlienViewGroup" at its HostPros URL.
http://www.alienview.net


JOHN FORD RESTORATION FUND -- John will be released eventually.
He'll need a tax free cash stake to get on his feet. Let's put
one together for him; the bigger it is -- the more attention
he gets. It could have been you. E-mail for detail.
$450.00 pledged -- $300.00 collected!

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite.
What others see from afar, I leave far behind me."
- Giordano Bruno, scourged by the scabrously specious scurrilous.








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   Apr > Apr 24

              Re: X-Conference Draws Hundreds To Gaithersburg -

From: Eleanor White <eleanor.nul>
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 10:28:12 -0400
Fwd Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 10:52:01 -0400
Subject: Re: X-Conference Draws Hundreds To Gaithersburg -


>Source: The Gazette - Gaithersburg, Maryland

>http://www.gazette.net/200417/gaithersburg/news/212780-1.html

>04-21-04

>X-Conference Draws Hundreds Of Believers To Gaithersburg

Question to the media who report on serious UFO gatherings: Why
do you limit your coverage to what non-participants "think" or
"believe" or "feel"?

Why, instead, don't you cover the _content_ of the
presentations, and interview some of the participants?


Eleanor White








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                    Re: Magonia's Second Website - Harney

From: John Harney <magonia.nul>
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 18:36:24 +0100
Fwd Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 15:31:31 -0400
Subject: Re: Magonia's Second Website - Harney


>From: Roy Hale <roy.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 03:09:28 +0100
>Subject: Re: Magonia's Second Website

>>From: John Rimmer <jrimmer.nul>
>>To: updates.nul
>>Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 20:46:13 +0100
>>Subject: Magonia's Second Website

>>List members might be interested in checking out Magonia
>>magazine's second website. Conducted by John Harney, this site
>>will be used initially to archive the very earliest days of the
>>Magonia evolutionary chain, the Merseyside UFO Research Group
>>Bulletin.

>>http://magonia.mysite.freeserve.com

>Just one thing lacking about your new mirrored site
>content!

That's because it has only recently been started. The MUFORG
Bulletins were published in those prehistoric times before home
computers and were produced using a couple of old typewriters
and a stencil duplicator. So they all have to be typed out and,
as some of them are faded and difficult to read, this will take
some time. I don't expect they'll generate much excitement, but
maybe a few people who are interested in the history of ufology
in Britain might appreciate them.

>Although I quite like the beer talk picture, now lets hope that
>decisions on UFO cases are not solved at the table!

Why not? Anyway, according to some of our critics, we've already
decided on them all.


John Harney








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                    Re: Magonia's Second Website - Rimmer

From: John Rimmer <jrimmer.nul>
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 18:16:35 +0100
Fwd Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 09:05:31 -0400
Subject: Re: Magonia's Second Website - Rimmer


>From: Roy Hale <roy.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 03:09:28 +0100
>Subject: Re: Magonia's Second Website

>>From: John Rimmer <jrimmer.nul>
>>To: updates.nul
>>Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 20:46:13 +0100
>>Subject: Magonia's Second Website

>>List members might be interested in checking out Magonia
>>magazine's second website. Conducted by John Harney, this site
>>will be used initially to archive the very earliest days of the
>>Magonia evolutionary chain, the Merseyside UFO Research Group
>>Bulletin.

>>http://magonia.mysite.freeserve.com

>John,

>Just one thing lacking about your new mirrored site < content!>.

Our aviary of tame pelicans is even now pecking away at keybords
to add more valuable archive material to the site. Keep dropping
in, you'll be amazed at what you'll learn.

--
John Rimmer
Magonia Magazine
www.magonia.demon.co.uk/arc/00/newmag.htm








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                   Southern California High Desert Report

From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO  <hbccufo.nul>
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 13:54:03 -0700
Fwd Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 09:13:43 -0400
Subject: Southern California High Desert Report


Note: As soon as the report showed up in my inbox I picked up
the telephone and called the witness. We talked over what the
two people saw. Where the man says "turned due north together",
the objects made a 90 degree turn and the objects would move
around one another as they traveled along. Also photos were
taken and will be sent along once they are developed.

---

High Desert, Southern California (From Victorville)

Date:  April 23, 2004
Time:  10:15 a.m.

Number of witnesses: 2
Number of objects: 4-6
Shape of objects: dots with long trails

Full Description of event/sighting: as I was traveling
northbound on the 15 freeway, my wife noticed multiple objects,
4-6 of them in the clear blue sky with contrails moving slowly
from the west to the east due north of our position.

I explained to her the I thought it was a meteor that was
breaking up in the atmosphere as it burned up. the contrails
were long and flowing, but they dissipated awfully fast to be
smoke and debris from a meteor - they faded more like mist.
Anyway, they continued moving slowly and as it appeared,
randomly intertwining between each other as they fell. I thought
it would be cool to get pictures. As I pulled over and got out,
I noticed that all of them turned due north together and
appeared to be falling at the same rate of speed, just away from
us.

I took three pictures and the objects faded into the distance. I
was okay with the meteor idea right up until they all turned to
the north. my wife thought that since there was gusty winds at
the time that the wind had blown the falling debris to the
north, but I explained to her that if it had been debris burning
up from space, that the pieces were probably traveling at
hundreds or thousands of miles per hour and the 40 mph gusts
wouldn't affect them. not withstanding the fact that they were
probably so high up in the atmosphere that the weather down here
wouldn't even affect it or be close to the same for that matter.
I got pictures! Did anyone else see the objects?

---

Thank you to the witness for the report.

Brian Vike
Director HBCC UFO Research
Home - Phone 250 845 2189
email: hbccufo.nul
Website: http://www.hbccufo.com
Redirect: http://www.brianvike.com
Redirect: http://www.hbccuforesearch.com








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   Apr > Apr 25

                     Re: Mars Crater Water Lake - Shell

From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 23:28:44 -0700
Fwd Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 09:15:50 -0400
Subject: Re: Mars Crater Water Lake - Shell


>From: Colin Stevenson <colsweb.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 06:22:59 +0100
>Subject: Mars Crater Water Lake

>Mars Odyssey Themis image shows water lake in the Southern
>Hemisphere of Mars at -67 degrees N?

>http://themis.la.asu.edu/zoom-20040422a.html

Maybe. Although from the ESA images we've gotten, these dark or
bluish patches seen at the bottoms of craters may have more to
do with accumulations of "blueberries" or wind exposing areas of
volcanic bedrock (also frequently dark blue like unrusted iron).

The number of dust devil trails would indicate this is a dry,
windy area. Also missing around this lake is a shoreline or
"beach" of any kind, that might indicate a rise and fall of
water. Maybe we were lucky to catch it at high tide. I'm
guessing not, though. Geothermal pool? No rising vapor.

Interesting, though.

Thanks!








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                          Re: "Exopolitics" - White

From: Eleanor White <eleanor.nul>
Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 00:39:31 -0400
Fwd Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 09:17:27 -0400
Subject: Re: "Exopolitics" - White


Hi -

Thinking over the comments made about the recent X-Conference on
the April 24th, 2004 edition of the Strange Days... Indeed radio
program, and in particular, the new goal of the participants.

"Exopolitics" is a terrifically precise and accurate description
of the new move toward focussing on the struggle to get the
powers that be to fess up, as opposed to endlessly debating
"lights in the sky".

However, using that term will, I believe make for an uphill
struggle for _years_, waiting for the sleeping public to catch
on to what it means.

I'd like to suggest a less technically precise term, but a term
which will _instantly_ click in the mind of the general public
as to its meaning:  ufopolitics

I know, I know - "We're past the point where the objects are as
yet unidentified."  But if the goal is to motivate the public to
demand answers, ufopolitics is a better term.


Eleanor White








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                    Re: Mars Crater Water Lake - Freeman

From: Kelly Freeman <Khfflsciufo.nul>
Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 10:18:06 EDT
Fwd Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 12:15:04 -0400
Subject: Re: Mars Crater Water Lake - Freeman


>From: Colin Stevenson <colsweb.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 06:22:59 +0100
>Subject: Mars Crater Water Lake

<snip>

>Mars Odyssey Themis image shows water lake in the Southern
>Hemisphere of Mars at -67 degrees N?

>http://themis.la.asu.edu/zoom-20040422a.html

>Enlargement:

>http://themis.la.asu.edu/fullimages/20040422a.gif

>(2254 KB)

>Relevant area extract from above:

>http://www.colsweb.com/MarsLakeQuestion.jpg

>(54 KB)

>Seems also to indicate a River to the left?

>Yet another to add to the collection.

Hello Colin,

I went to the above sites and looked at the photographs and they
were definitely interesting. However, my first impression was
that of a huge hole. If it is water, it would have to be an
awfully deep body of water. Correct me if I am wrong, but
wouldn't water tend to be of a lighter color? Seems too dark.
On_my_computer, it just seems to be a dark indistinguishable
color.

Also, I noticed that on the right side of the image of this
lake/hole it seemed to be curving upwards. Would this be due to
a photographic anomaly? Or am I seeing things? Just a first
impression... and I'm certainly not a professional in photo
analysis!


Kelly













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                    Re: Mars Crater Water Lake - Freeman

From: Kelly Freeman <Khfflsciufo.nul>
Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 11:55:12 EDT
Fwd Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 12:39:31 -0400
Subject: Re: Mars Crater Water Lake - Freeman


>From: Colin Stevenson <colsweb.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 06:22:59 +0100
>Subject: Mars Crater Water Lake

<snip>

>Mars Odyssey Themis image shows water lake in the Southern
>Hemisphere of Mars at -67 degrees N?

>http://themis.la.asu.edu/zoom-20040422a.html

>Enlargement:

>http://themis.la.asu.edu/fullimages/20040422a.gif

>(2254 KB)

>Relevant area extract from above:

>http://www.colsweb.com/MarsLakeQuestion.jpg

>(54 KB)

>Seems also to indicate River to the left?

>Yet another to add to the collection.

Colin,

In my first post, I didn't mean to reply as if water_exists_
now. I should have used the past tense. My apologies to you and
the List. I will try and go wake up now.

However, I still find the curvature upwards at the right of the
image interesting. Does it look that way to you?


Kelly F.











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   Apr > Apr 26

                          UFOs Over Iranian Cities

From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO <hbccufo.nul>
Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 13:28:22 -0700
Fwd Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 08:42:22 -0400
Subject: UFOs Over Iranian Cities


UFOs Over Iranian Cities
Date: April 2004

Thousands of people saw flying lights and objects for several
days and several times in the sky of many cities of Iran.

12,13,14 of April (night), many people and a journalist of Irna
News sighting a light in the sky fly slow with different colors
over the city Gonbade Kavoos.

13 April (night), 26 April (morning) UFO Sighting over city
Meshkin Shahr.

14 of April at 9 pm UFO sighting in the sky for 90 min over the
small city Bileh Savar.the object looks oval, after 90 min it
starts to move (fly) straight and in that place its become four
fling lights.

14 of April at 20:30 many people sighting over the sky of city
Tabriz a flying light with two small wings.the wings beams light
in different colors.

17 of April at 20:30 people sighting a light for 60 minute. it
fly's deep over the city Azad Shahr (North Iran) with changing
color.

18 of April at 11 pm , people sighting oval UFO fly over city
Poldokhtar (west Iran) for 30 minute.

21 of April in the night,people sighting several time a strong
pink light object fly slowly over the city Gorgan.

21 of April in the night people of tree cities Saris (north
Iran), Ardabil (north west), Gonbade Kavoos(north east),
sighting strong lights fly in the sky.

Many Official News paper write about these several UFOs sighting
in these days. Official Iranian TV 1 shows a short Handy cam
video film about one of this UFO (light) sighting.

Sorry for my not good English.

From Tehran, Iran

-----

Thank you to the correspondent for the information.

Brian Vike
Director HBCC UFO Research
Home - Phone 250 845 2189
email: hbccufo.nul
Website: http://www.hbccufo.com
Redirect: http://www.brianvike.com
Redirect: http://www.hbccuforesearch.com






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   Apr > Apr 26

               Budd Hopkins' UFO Seminar - May 22, 2004 (NYC)

From: The Intruders Foundation <Ifinfo1.nul>
Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 21:40:40 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 08:45:18 -0400
Subject: Budd Hopkins' UFO Seminar - May 22, 2004 (NYC)


Intruders Foundation Seminar Series Announcement

Saturday, May 22, 2004

Abductee Panel: Steven Jones and Debbie Jordan dialogue with
Budd Hopkins

On Saturday, May 22, the Intruders Foundation presents its final
seminar of the 2004 spring series. It will feature a discussion
of their abduction experiences by two compelling speakers,
Debbie Jordan and Steven Jones, in conversation with Budd
Hopkins, the central investigator in their cases.

Debbie Jordan, a resident of Indiana, is internationally known
as "Kathie Davis," the central figure in Hopkins 1987 best-
seller, "Intruders," the subject of a CBS miniseries.  In 1994,
Debbie Jordan, who has not spoken publicly in New York for well
over a decade, published a book, co-written by her sister Kathy
Mitchell, entitled "Abducted! The Story of the Intruders
Continues..." covering aspects of their experiences not included
in "Intruders" and bringing their rivetting story up to date.

Debbie Jordan's original account was the first in UFO history to
reveal the reproductive aspect of the alien agenda, and as such
is of extraordinary importance. She will discuss the wrenching
emotional issues she experienced when her developing fetus was
removed during an abduction and then, a few years later, when
she was re-abducted, shown a small girl with alien and human
features, and was told it was her daughter.

She will also discuss her feelings about the way her experiences
were represented on the CBS miniseries "Intruders," and recount
a later abduction with important physical evidence.

Steven Jones is a resident of the United Kingdom who came to the
United States in 2003 and contacted Budd Hopkins about his
apparent UFO abduction experiences.  Several hypnosis sessions
have yielded full accounts of abductions that began in his
childhood and have continued to the present.  One of the most
surprising occurred when he was 16 years old and visiting a
friend for an evening of TV-watching with a group of young David
Bowie fans. Steven spent the night at his friend's house, but
awoke in the morning, nude, in a bedroom in a different house
some three miles away, his clothes still in the bedroom in which
he had gone to sleep. Steven will discuss what actually happened
that night, a complex, gripping incident in which he and one of
the other young David Bowie fans were simultaneously abducted.

The dialogue between Steven Jones and Debbie Jordan is certain
to be fascinating, and we suggest that those planning to attend
make their reservations early.


Registration & Information

The seminar will be held on April 17th at the meeting rooms of
A.R.E., on the tenth floor of 150 W. 28th Street, New York. The
price for the seminar is $30 for non-members and $20 for members
of IF, seniors and students. Reservations must be made by
telephone at 212-645-5278, and will be filled on a first come,
first served basis. Payment must be made in advance to secure
the reservation. Make checks payable to the Intruders
Foundation, P.O. Box 30233, New York, NY 10011. Only 50
reservations will be accepted for each seminar.

On-street parking is generally available in the neighborhood.
The seminar will begin at 7:30 PM and end at 10:00 PM. Doors
open at 7:00 PM. There will be a one half-hour intermission,
during which light complimentary refreshments will be served. A
book table will offer books, videotapes and other material for
sale to those interested. For additional information, call IF at
212-645-5278.

Hope to see you there!

----------

The Intruders Foundation Seminar Series is presented in the
interests of open-minded scientific learning and the free
exchange of research, ideas and theories. IF makes no specific
claims or endorsements regarding any materials, views, or
subject matter presented by our guests.

----------

Want to know more about Budd Hopkins and his nonprofit
scientific research organization, as well as past and future IF
events? Please visit our website=E2=80=A6

Intruders Foundation Website:
http://www.intrudersfoundation.org/

----------








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                        Vancouver BC Area - 04-14-04

From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO <hbccufo.nul>
Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 20:50:31 -0700
Fwd Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 08:50:14 -0400
Subject: Vancouver BC Area - 04-14-04


Vancouver, British Columbia Area

April 24 - 09:00 - Observed white light moving in an easterly
direction across Indian Arm from Seymour Mountain. Approx:. 2500
ft. I assumed it was most likely a small plane but noticed it
was traveling faster than most. As I watched the white light
blinked out. A few seconds later there was a single red strobe
flash and then the white light reappeared going back the way it
came just as fast. There is no way a small plane could have
reversed directions that fast. I grabbed my new Video camera and
in the few seconds it took to warm up the light blinked out
again. There was still a little light in the sky but I could see
nothing in the area. I checked with my binoculars but found
nothing..

April. 14 - Approx:. 10:00 PM - Observed what appeared to be a
fairly large meteorite heading in a northerly direction. As I
watched it suddenly shrank in size and within seconds just
appeared to be a satellite still heading in the same direction.
Very similar to that object I saw back in the summer of 2002.

I forgot to write this down but it occurred around the beginning
of April 2004. The weather was overcast with low thick clouds.
Approx:. 5 PM. I was playing on my computer when I noticed, Two
dull yellow disk shaped objects, flying one behind the other in
a SSE directions. Cloud level was approx:. 1000 ft. and these
glowing disks appeared to be either in the clouds or just over
them. I would estimate they were about over the area of 108 and
King George and from that distance appeared to be about the size
of the full moon. Estimated speed approx:. 3 to 4 hundred miles
an hour. Time of sighting about five to ten seconds.

My new camera has night vision and can see better than I can in
the dark. The other night I saw that strange light which appears
to flash white, blue and red. I aimed the camera at it and
started zooming in and it must be in near orbit as the image
filled my view finder even before it got to full digital zoom.
(900X) Normal stars still look like stars slightly magnified.
Anyway I did not see the blue and red lights which I've seen
through my binoculars but did see reddish looking protudences on
the sides. Reminded me of Mickey Mouse. The white object
appeared to be rotating quite fast but that may just have been
an effect caused by the atmosphere. Just for the heck of it I
left the camera running while pointed up at the sky, to my
surprise I saw what appeared to be very two very faint
satellites pass through the rather narrow field of view within
about five minutes. I also noticed several dark shadowy objects
passing in front of the stars in the view finder. I tried
looking at the same area through my binoculars but could only
just barely make out the stars.

One other thing I just remembered I got my new camera on the
13th. of April and spent all afternoon playing with it. My wife
was getting annoyed and told me to put it away. About five
minutes later I saw what appeared to be a small plane flying by
about two blocks from here. The lights didn't look right and it
was flying not much higher than my apt. I grabbed my binoculars
and took a look but was unable to see the fuselage if it had
one. Could only see the lights. Two small lights on what I took
to be the nose, one red, one white. Where the wings should be I
saw a bright blue light and a red one on the other side both
larger then the nose lights, behind the wings? I saw two more
lights mounted one behind the other one large white one and a
large red one. As it passed the Green tower at City Centre Mall
I could see a small white light on its tail. It had been heading
east but swung to a southerly heading after passing the tower.

Anyway it looks like it might be a good summer for sightings,
hopefully I will manage to get something on tape. I got a little
excited this afternoon while playing back my tape from yesterday
evening on my TV. I saw this thing with two big yellow lights
and what looked light a dark saucer shape in the background,
after watching it for a few seconds I realized it was an
aircraft with its landing lights on.

I have also noticed a number of times now those single strobe
flashes which seem to be coming from space. My camera has picked
them up numerous times now. I've played them back one frame at a
time and they only seem to last for one frame and I can see
nothing around them even with the camera set at about 20X zoom.


Thanks to the witness for the report.

I also just got off the telephone with a witness who called from
California to report a very interesting sighting which just took
place on April 23, 2004. I hope to have this keyed and posted,
soon.


Brian Vike

Director HBCC UFO Research
Home - Phone 250 845 2189
email: hbccufo.nul
Website: http://www.hbccufo.com
Redirect: http://www.brianvike.com
Redirect: http://www.hbccuforesearch.com








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                  Leah Haley To Speak At May MUFON Meetings

From: Marc Davenport <marcdavenport.nul>
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 08:35:58 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 08:55:46 -0400
Subject: Leah Haley To Speak At May MUFON Meetings


Dear friends,

Leah Haley will speak and autograph her new book, Unlocking
Alien Closets, at three MUFON meetings in May:


May 2, 2004 at Michigan MUFON meeting:

Burton
Michigan

http://www.mimufon.org/May%202004%20Speaker.html


May 18, 2004 at LA MUFON meeting:

North Hollywood
California

http://www.mufonla.com/meetings.htm


May 19, 2004 at Orange County MUFON meeting:

Costa Mesa
California

http://www.mufonoc.org/program.htm


To see a comprehensive schedule of Leah's public appearances, click:

http://www.leahhaley.com/Scheduled%20public%20appearances.htm


Cordially,

Marc Davenport








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                       Strange Animal Deaths In Chile

From: Scott Corrales <lornis1.nul>
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 16:08:37 -0400
Fwd Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 17:02:14 -0400
Subject: Strange Animal Deaths In Chile



SOURCE: La Estrella del Loa (Calama)
DATE: March 10, 2004

Strange Animal Deaths

A new series of animal slayings occurred in Tocopila, reviving
old fears about the existence of a pitiless creature that
attacks without leaving a trace or explanation as to how the
deaths occur. Yesterday, in the "Tres Marias" sector of the
town, located to the north of the port area, the Chupacabras
legend was resurrected at the smallholding of Eduardo
Covarrubias, where 32 farm birds were found dead. Their bodies
were scattered inside the henhouse, which showed no signs of
foreced entry by trespassers or other animals from the region.
Covarrubias made the macabre find when he went to feed his
animals as he did every day, coming across the unpleasant scene
of his lifeless hens.

The police was immediately informed. Alarmed by the violent
animal slayings, law enforcement reached the site swiftly,
witnessing the events on the ground. Carabineros (Chilean state
police) cordoned off the area to avoid losing evidence while
bloodhounds aided in collecting the first hints that would
explain this strange event. However, area residents blame the
legendary Chupacabras, who has returned to trouble their
nightmares, a belief substantiated by the manner in which the
deaths occurred.

It was possible to ascertain that the birds showed a single
orifice on the base of their necks, having almost the same depth
throughout their bodies. Furthermore, it was not possible to
find vast quantities of blood on the ground despite the
magnitude of the killings. Added to this was the death of the
only two roosters, who were beheaded during the attack.

Covarrubias was shaken by the attack, which represented an
economic blow in excess of 300,000 Chilean pesos. Research
personnel conducted a thorough investigation at the site, taking
some of the dead hens with them for more detailed tests.

=======================================

Translation (c) 2004 Scott Corrales IHU
Special thanks to Liliana Nunez








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                 Unpublished Interviews With Kenneth Arnold

From: Dave Haith <visions.nul>
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 18:43:41 +0100
Fwd Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 17:04:53 -0400
Subject: Unpublished Interviews With Kenneth Arnold


I have just received the following from UFO researcher Bob
Pratt.

Click the second link to read his previously unpublished and
fascinating interviews with the legendary Kenneth Arnold.

Cheers
Dave Haith

-----

Hello

This message is going to a number of people by blind copy to
announce that I have added a new page to my web site:

http://www.bobpratt.org

The page is about Kenneth Arnold and is based on three long
phone calls we had:

http://www.bobpratt.org/ken.html


Bob Pratt








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                         NARA Mitigates Its Cop-Out

From: Larry W. Bryant <overtci.nul>
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 21:37:30 -0400 (EDT)
Fwd Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 09:22:11 -0400
Subject: NARA Mitigates Its Cop-Out



NARA Mitigates Its Cop-out

By Larry W. Bryant

[LWB Note: Besides inadvertently revealing his agency's self-
 contradictory records-search stance in the processing of my
FOIA request of April 1, 2004 (see my posting of April 23), NARA
employee David A. Pfeiffer's below-quoted letter to me of April
22 dredges up an ages-old FOIA seek-and-hide game. One version
of this going-through-the-motions exercise occurred years ago
when I FOIA-ed the U. S. Defense Printing Service at the
Pentagon. You see, someone had leaked to me a copy of a DPS-
 printed "Security Poster of the Month" (for January 1984) --
 published by the Defense Intelligence Agency, and designed by a
USAF Hq employee. The cartoon poster depicts an alien-occupied
flying saucer crashing into the partially open bottom drawer of
a security safe, the saucer sustaining front-end damage from the
sudden impact. In large lettering near the scene, the winning
poster declares: "Security Is No Accident . . . It Has to Be
Practiced!" For some reason, the DPS FOIA gatekeepers chose to
fall on their Sword of Denial, asserting that they have no
records responsive to my request. Now, this case of a
requester's already possessing a copy of the very document being
sought from the agency tells us much about how easily ANY agency
can proceed to flout our open-access laws. Supposing I already
possess copies of the sought-for telexes in the case of the
Canberra-reported incident; even so, do you suppose that certain
NARA officials might be tempted to emulate the DPS standard for
FOIA compliance?]

Dear Mr. Bryant:

This is in further response to your April 1, 2004, Freedom of
Information request (NW24401) concerning the satellite-
interference incident that you refer to in your request.

We have searched the finding aids for the National Aeronautics
and Space Administration (Record Group 255) and the General
Records of the Department of State (Record Group 59) and have
been unable to locate any documentation concerning the
satellite-interference incident, dating 1975, that you referred
to in your request. We will will be happy to make the finding
aids and pertinent declassified and unclassified records of the
Department of state and NASA available to you or your
representative in our research room.

We do not consider this response a denial under the Freedom of
Information Act because the records in our custody do not
include the information you requested. If you consider this an
adverse response, you may appeal by writing to the Deputy
Archivist (ND), National Archives at College Park, 8601 Adelphi
Road, College Park, Maryland, 20740-6001, and explain why you
think our search does not meet the requirements of the FOIA.


Sincerely,

DAVID A. PFEIFFER
Archivist, Civilian Records
Textual Archives Services Division

2004-3477
NWCTC
cc: NWCTC Official File
NWCTF








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                     Re: Magonia's Second Website - Hale

From: Roy Hale <roy.nul>
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 04:27:03 +0100
Fwd Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 09:23:22 -0400
Subject: Re: Magonia's Second Website - Hale


>From: John Rimmer <jrimmer.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 18:16:35 +0100
>Subject: Re: Magonia's Second Website

>Keep dropping in, you'll be amazed at what you'll learn.


The Aliens came down, but didn't bother invade us, they said our
natrural resources were fading.

Roy








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                     Meadow California Report - 04-23-04

From: Brian Vike HBCC UFO <hbccufo.nul>
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 00:53:41 -0700
Fwd Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 09:26:30 -0400
Subject: Meadow California Report - 04-23-04


Meadow, California (Between Ellsinore & Paris)

Date:  April 23, 2004
Time:  Approx: 8:00 p.m.

A lady called me from Meadow, California and said she watched
what looked like a cone-shaped object moving from side to side
flying across the sky. The witness was backing into her carport
when she spotted the object and started yelling at her daughter
who was with her to look towards the mountains. Her daughter
looked in the wrong direction and missed seeing it. She said the
back of the object looked like it was flared out. As she
observed the object move across the sky it would fade in and
out. Also she noticed when stated to fade she saw a red puff
come off of it. I asked what she meant by a "red puff". She
really found it hard to explain and said it was a red something,
like a burst of red. Every time the object gave off the puff of
red the object itself became more visible, or a bright white in
color.

There was no contrail left by the object. It was flying from the
north heading to the south in a straight line. I asked if she
was able to give me a rough idea as to the size of the craft.
The witness said it had to be longer than the length of her arm.
The lady said it was traveling at a very low altitude, between
the mountains and her residence, but extremely low.

She also said there is a small airport close to where she
resides. I wondered if a plane was coming into to land or one
might have been taking off. But from the sounds of what the lady
saw it doesn't seem to resemble an aircraft I am aware of, but
of course hard to say. There was no sound heard, but another
interesting point she made was that her pets (dogs) and the
neighbors dogs were acting up all night long. (only this one
night when the sighting took place) The lady said this is
certainly out of the norm for them to carry on like this and she
thought this was unusual.

It was interesting to note that on the weekend the local
Airforce Base there was a aircraft fair taking place she told me
and this was after her sighting.


Thank you to the witness for the report.

Brian Vike

Director HBCC UFO Research
Home - Phone 250 845 2189
email: hbccufo.nul Website: http://www.hbccufo.com
Redirect: http://www.brianvike.com Redirect:
http://www.hbccuforesearch.com








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                           Florida Today Editorial

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 10:39:34 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 10:39:34 -0400
Subject: Florida Today Editorial




Source: Florida Today

http://www.floridatoday.com/news/space/stories/2004a/spacestory0427WSPACECONG.ht
m

04-26-04

This week's 41st Space Congress is a time for determination and
pressing ahead

Florida Today Editorial

It was more than a half-century ago that fate and geography
got together, looked around and decided that Cape Canaveral
would be where mankind would begin its greatest adventure.

Today, all those years and launches later, we humans are still
at it, in fits and starts, through great successes and tearful
failures, punching a hole in the sky, heading into orbit, to the
planets and beyond.

That the stars aligned and selected our community as the staging
ground to venture into this new world makes Brevard County
unique. It also makes the space program workers who are our
family members, friends and neighbors the artisans of a new
Renaissance.

A Renaissance of exploration and knowledge as breathtaking as
Michaelangelo's ceiling in the Sistine Chapel, or Columbus'
quest to prove there was something across the Atlantic that
merited risking his life to find.

The space workers are the ones - through their intellect, skill
and dedication - who continue to push back the unknown and seek
revelation for all of us.

Those things are worth thinking about today as experts from
around the nation gather for the start of the 41st Space
Congress in Cape Canaveral, a four-day event that will focus on
this theme:

The need for determination to keep going, always keep going.

That character trait is needed in large quantities these days,
as NASA goes through the best of times and the worst of times.

The best of times in that its space science missions have never
been stronger or more thrilling, from rovers on Mars to the
Hubble Space Telescope to other probes in operation or planned
that seek to piece together the ultimate questions:

Who are we, and how did we get here?

But it's also the worst of times in that the shuttle fleet
remains grounded in the aftermath of the shuttle Columbia
disaster, and President Bush's plan to return astronauts to the
moon and then plow on to Mars has little support among
politicians and the public alike.

There's more interest in spending the needed money and resources
to attack problems on Earth, a view that shows no signs of
abating.

While its easy to be pessimistic, it's critical to remember that
voyages of great discovery are always ones of trial.

It was the case with Ferdinand Magellan, who died trying to
circumnavigate the globe. And it was the case with Galileo
Galilei, who was persecuted for using his telescope and daring
to say that established thought about the universe was wrong.

And so we face our own trials now in space, where there is
little if any margin for error, yet where rewards await in ways
we can't yet comprehend.

Those attending this week's Space Congress understand that, and
it's why they're right to keep the faith and urge all of us to
keep going.


[UFO UpDates thanks Norm for the lead --ebk]








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                          Secrecy News -- 04/27/04

From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood.nul>
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 11:59:34 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 14:24:21 -0400
Subject: Secrecy News -- 04/27/04


SECRECY NEWS
from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy
Volume 2004, Issue No. 40
April 27, 2004


**      ISOO REPORTS A 25% RISE IN CLASSIFICATION ACTIVITY
**      PRESIDENTIAL WAR POWER


ISOO REPORTS A 25% RISE IN CLASSIFICATION ACTIVITY

There was a marked increase in national security secrecy
activity last year as executive branch agencies classified a
total of more than 14 million new secrets, the Information
Security Oversight Office (ISOO) reported in its latest annual
report to the President.

This represents a 25% rise over the previous year in the
production of "secrets."

Critics contend that the classification system is applied to
significant quantities of information unnecessarily, to the
detriment of national security. The ISOO report implicitly
acknowledged that there is some merit to the argument.

"Allowing information that will not cause damage to national
security to remain in the classification system, or to enter the
system in the first instance, places all classified information
at needless increased risk," said the ISOO report, published
this week.

"ISOO has asked all agency heads to closely examine efforts to
implement and maintain the security classification system at
their agencies... This effort includes ensuring that information
that requires protection is properly identified and safeguarded
and, equally important, that information not eligible for
inclusion in the classification system remains unclassified or
is promptly declassified."

"Many senior officials will candidly acknowledge that the
government classifies too much information," ISOO noted,
"although oftentimes the observation is made with respect to the
activities of agencies other than their own."

ISOO reported a total of 14,228,020 classification decisions by
executive branch agencies in fiscal year 2003, up from
11,271,618 classification actions in FY 2002.

ISOO is an executive branch agency that oversees classification
and declassification activity in the executive branch, and
reports annually to the President on its findings. Housed in the
National Archives, it takes policy direction from the National
Security Council. Its director is J. William Leonard.

A copy of the new ISOO annual report for fiscal year 2003 is
available here:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/isoo/2003rpt.pdf


PRESIDENTIAL WAR POWER

The decision to go to war is the most fateful act a President
can undertake.

The fact that it was possible in our time for a President to
launch a discretionary, pre-emptive war on grounds that later
turned out to be erroneous only underscores the immense power
that has accrued to the executive, and the comparative weakness
of the other branches of government.

The evolution of this presidential power through American
history up to its current efflorescence is sketched out by Louis
Fisher, a constitutional scholar at the Congressional Research
Service, in a newly revised edition of his book "Presidential
War Power."

Even-handed but critical, Fisher concludes his analysis with a
chapter on "Restoring Checks and Balances."

"Congress may stand against the President or stand behind him,
but should not stand aside...," he writes.

"In going to war, members of Congress must insist that the
President deliver reliable evidence, not assertions, scares, or
likelihoods.... The framers [of the Constitution] valued
deliberation because it strengthens the democratic process and
lessens the chance of political mistakes. That fundamental value
needs to govern today."

The second, revised edition of "Presidential War Power" by Louis
Fisher has just been published by the University Press of
Kansas. See:

http://www.kansaspress.ku.edu/fispre.html



_______________________________________________
Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the
Federation of American Scientists.

To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email to
secrecy_news-request.nul
with "subscribe" in the body of the message.

OR email your request to saftergood.nul

Secrecy News is archived at:
http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html

_______________________
Steven Aftergood
Project on Government Secrecy
Federation of American Scientists
web:  www.fas.org/sgp/index.html
email: saftergood.nul
voice: (202) 454-4691






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                       UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 9 Number 17

From: John Hayes <webmaster.nul>
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 17:30:43 +0100
Fwd Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 14:31:05 -0400
Subject: UFO ROUNDUP, Volume 9 Number 17



Posted on behalf of Joseph Trainor.

<Masinaigan.nul>
==========================

      UFO ROUNDUP
Volume 9, Number 17
April 28, 2004
Editor: Joseph Trainor

E-mail: Masinaigan.nul
Website: http://www.ufoinfo.com/roundup/


ALABAMA CESSNA SHOT
DOWN BY A UFO?

      "Federal investigators said a single-engine plane hit
an 'unknown object' at 3,000 feet (900 meters) before it
crashed in a swampy area near Mobile, Alabama (population
198,915) on October 23, 2002, killing a veteran pilot."
      "The pilot, Thomas J. Preziose, 54, of Mobile, had
reported sighting a FedEx DC-10 near his flight.  But the
National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) investigators
found that the FedEx aircraft wasn't damaged, and the
object that hit the small plane remains a mystery."
      "In a report this week, the NTSB said there were
unidentified red marks on the severely damaged nose and
front belly of the crashed Cessna, but tests failed to
find the source of the red streaks."
      "The crash occurred minutes after Preziose took off
from (Mobile's) Downtown Airport to deliver business
documents to Montgomery," Alabama's state capital.
      "NTSB spokesman Keith Holloway told the Mobile
Register that agency officials 'don't know of any other
accident that we have in our files that states 'collision
with an unknown object.'"
      "A full NTSB analysis of the crash is expected within
a few months, said Holloway."
      "'It's just a great thing that this kind of thing
didn't happen to an airliner with a bunch of people on
it,' said Don Godwin, a veteran pilot and chief executive
officer of Mid-Atlantic Freight, which owned the plane."
      "Preziose was working for Mid-Atlantic Freight, under
contract with the delivery company DHL Worldwide Express,
and had flown this one route numerous times."
      "An air traffic controller at Mobile Regional Airport
apparently gave incorrect positions to Preziose about the
location of a DC-10 in his area, according to the report."
      "An FAA official at Mobile Regional Airport said
Tuesday," April 13, 2004, "he wasn't aware of any
equipment malfunction."
      "The report says the Mobile Regional controller
alerted Preziose, flying at 3,000 feet (900 meters), to
the presence of the DC-10, which was 7 miles (11
kilometers) straight in front of him, flying at 4,000 feet
(1,200 meters).  Preziose acknowledged it."
      "A minute later, the controller told Preziose the DC-
10 had crossed the smaller plane's path and remained at
4,000 feet, the report says."
      "'Roger, I've got him above me right now,' Preziose
replied, apparently confirming he saw the FedEx plane."
      "But, moments later, the report states, he came back
on the air," saying "'I needed to deviate...I needed to
deviate...I needed to deviate...I needed--'"
      "Based on the best radar information they could find,
investigators concluded the Cessna never crossed paths
with the DC-10, contrary to what the air traffic
controller had told Preziose, the report states.  While
the DC-10 was said to be crossing his path, it was still 2
miles (3.2 kilometers) away, the report says."
      "Mobile lawyer Greg Breedlove said his firm has been
retained by Preziose's family and is examining several
possibilities, including that the Cessna simply got caught
in turbulence caused by the FedEx plane."
      "The Cessna wreckage was found in shallow waters
about a mile north of the Mobile Causeway.  Its Pratt &
Whitney engine block was split in two, the report says."
      "'That's a big deal,' said Godwin, who believes the
Cessna was shattered by a collision in flight.  'That
airplane could fall out of the sky and hit concrete, and
it's unlikely it would've broken the engine in half like
that.'"
      "Along with failing to find the source of the red
streaks, investigators were also unable to identify the
source of 'a small piece of what appeared to be black
anodized aluminum, which was embedded in the left wing'
near the (Cessna's) fuselage, the report states."  (See
the Mobile, Ala. Register for April 14, 2004, "NTSB:
Unknown object downed Cessna in swamp."  Many thanks to
Robert Fischer for this newspaper article.)


SECOND SIGHTING OF
INDIANA UFO REPORTED

      On Thursday, April 8, 2004, at 10 p.m., Ross F.
Lucchetti reported, "While driving home" in Sheridan,
Indiana (population 2,570), "my wife and I saw a small
light grow in the north and then become a horizontal thing
of 6 to 8 lights, perfectly spaced and perfectly
horizontal, just above the tree line.  It lasted only a
few seconds and then went out or disappeared."
      "Only the lights were visible.  It appeared to be
very large and didn't move in any direction from our
vantage point.  I told my brother, who did some research
and learned of the UFO that was seen the same night in
Rochester, Indiana."
      Sheridan, Ind. is on Highway 38, just north of
Indianapolis and approximately 97 miles (155 kilometers)
south of Rochester, Ind.  (Email Form Report)


HOVERING UFO SEEN IN
FORT MYERS, FLORIDA

      On Saturday, April 17, 2004, at 7:30 p.m., eyewitness
K.M. and her family were in Fort Myers, Florida
(population 48,208) when they spotted a UFO approaching
from the west.
      "This weekend we were in the Fort Myers area for the
Challenger Baseball Festival.  On the way back from the
barbecue, we saw this sliver of light in the western sky.
If it was curved, I might have thought it was a new moon
or something, but it wasn't.  It looked like what the
sliver of moon might look like if it was straightened
out."
      "It was at an angle.  It did not move.  There were no
clouds in the sky. The sun had just set.  We were looking
at it for about ten minutes."
      "During that time, a bright light appeared at the
very top and then would disappear.  This happened several
times."
      "Then it started to fade and then disappeared before
our eyes.  It was very strange.  I could not figure out
any explanation for it.  It was almost like a slit in the
sky had opened up, and then it closed.  We have a picture
of it."
      Fort Myers is on Florida's Gulf of Mexico shoreline,
located approximately 116 miles (185 kilometers) south of
St. Petersburg and Tampa.  (Email Form Report)


WHITE UFO WITH RED LIGHTS
SPOTTED IN BERKSHIRE, UK

      On Monday, April 19, 2004, at 8 p.m., Geoffrey Fox
was outdoors at Forest Park, Bracknell, Berkshire, UK when
he spotted a diamond-shaped UFO coming towards him from
the east.
      "The object was a large white light," Geoffrey
reported, "A diamond-shaped white light, vibrantly
glowing.  It had two red lights randomly flashing on its
right hand side.  It was just over 1,000 feet (300 meters)
from the ground.  It didn't seem to move across the sky,
and I'm unaware of its speed."
      "I observed it hovering in the sky for two to two-
and-a-half hours.  After a brief period indoors, I went
back outside, and it had moved to the other side of the
sky (west--J.T.) and was still hovering."
      "My father, who lives in Crowthorne, also observed
the anomaly."  (Email Form Report)


MAJOR UFO FLAP BREAKS
OUT IN NORTHERN IRAN

      A major UFO flap has broken out in northern Iran,
just south of the Caspian Sea, with thousands of people
standing in streets and home gardens to watch the luminous
objects darting across the night skies.
      On Tuesday night, April 13, 2004, a luminous disc
"was seen over the city of Meshkin Shahr" in northern
Iran.
      On Wednesday, April 14, 2004, at 9 p.m., "a UFO
crossed the sky over the small city of Bileh Savar.  The
object looked oval.  It hovered over Bileh Savar for 30
minutes and was seen by hundreds of people who gathered in
the souq (market place) and by the side of the highway.
Then it flew in a straight line and seperated into four
distinct flying lights."
      Half an hour earlier, at 8:30 p.m., "many people in
Tabriz," a large city located 500 kilometers (300 miles)
northwest of Tehran, the national capital, "saw a flying
light with two small stubby wings.  The wings emitted
light beams in many dazzling colors."
      On Saturday, April 17, 2004, at 8:30 p.m., "hundreds
of people saw a luminous oval-shaped UFO over Azad Shahr
in northern Iran.  The strange object flew around in the
city's sky for over 60 minutes.  This object frequently
changed color."
      On Sunday, April 18, 2004, at 11 p.m., "people
reported an oval UFO over the city of Poldokhtar in
western Iran.  This UFO flew around for 30 minutes.
Residents watched from their rooftops and gardens."
      On Wednesday, April 21, 2004, "just after dusk,
people in Gorgan saw a UFO 'emitting a strong pink
light.'"
      That same evening, UFOs "appeared over three cities--
Sari in northern Iran, Ardabil in the northwest, and
Ghonbad-Kavous near the Caspian, where a UFO was seen on
April 12.  Residents described them as 'strong lights
flying in the sky.'"
      On Sunday, April 25, 2004, "the disc-shaped UFO
returned to Meshkin Shahr and was seen by many people."
      Iranian ufologist Hassan Hashemi reported, "The
government Channel TV-1 in Tehran aired a short video of
the UFO in Ardabil.  The footage was taken with a hand-
held videocamera."
      "Now there is even more talk about an underwater
alien base on the floor of the Caspian Sea.  The entire
UFO community in the Middle East is talking about these
incidents in Iran," Ayesha al-Khatabi, UFO Roundup's
Middle East correspondent, reported, "Some speculate that
these are the Zarzi aliens who were last seen in the as-
Zab as-Saghir (Little Zab River valley--J.T.) in Iraq.
But others think they are another alien race entirely."
(Many thanks to Hassan Hashemi, Kufa Yildaz and Ayesha al-
Khatabi for these UFO reports.)


MYSTERIOUS NOISES HAVE
FOLKS SLEEPLESS IN EPSOM

      "A group of Epsom residents, sleepless in suburbia,
fear they have little prospect of catching some shut-eye
after experts told them they were powerless to pin down
the mystery noises keeping them awake."
      "Light sleepers in Manor Green Road" in Epsom, a
suburb of London, "have failed to clock-up a decent
night's slumber in six months because of the sounds which
regularly wake them up."
      "The residents said they have been hearing five
repeated thuds in the middle of the night and cannot trace
the source."
      "Double-glazed windows and ear plugs have been no
match for the tumult."
      "So intolerable is the situation that one homeowner
has considered seeking a deep-sleeping buyer with a dreamy
nature to restore her silent nights."
      "When Claire Stott, 50, enlisted the help of Epsom
and Ewell Borough Council's environmental health
department, she was told to collate more information."
      "Officials insist that they are unable to identify
the sound because it occurs at irregular intervals."
      "A spokesman told The Guardian: 'We need a starting
point.  When we last received a call about the problem in
February (2004), we were not in a position to help.  We
really have to have a better suggestion of where it is
coming from.'"
      "Residents, however, said it was their failure to
trace the source that prompted them to return to the
department."
      "In a desperate bid to get a good night's sleep, the
tired residents are calling on Guardian readers to solve
the riddle of the racket."
      "Mrs. Stott said: 'Everyone is baffled.  The noise is
driving me mad.  It's like someone beating loudly on a
drum.'"
      "'People say you can just get back to sleep, but it's
not that easy.  You are thinking all the time of when it
will come again.  I just hope someone will recognise the
problem and come forward.'"
      "Builders working in neighbouring Long Grove Road
have put forward a water pump as the possible culprit."
      "But residents say it is too far removed to generate
the noise, which is penetrating the double-glazed
windows."  (See The Guardian for April 19, 2004.  Many
thanks to Robert Fischer for forwarding this newspaper
article.)
(Editor's Comment:  Oh, no!  Don't tell me the Deros are
building an underground base in Epsom.  There goes the
neighborhood!)


FAYETTE FACTOR CALLS
DOWN TORNADOES

      The USA's spring tornado season got underway last
week, with what looks like a slight assist from the
Fayette Factor.
      "A tornado killed eight people in Illinois on
Tuesday," April 20, 2004.  "All eight deaths were in
Utica, Ill. (population 977), a small town 90 miles (145
kilometers) southwest of Chicago."
      "Storm spotters logged at least 51 tornado sightings
across five states."
      "The (USA's) tornado 'season' runs from March through
midsummer, but tornadoes can strike in any month.  The
peak period is April through June.  April is the deadliest
month."
      "The Utica twister was by far the most destructive of
the 51 tornadoes that tore through the Midwest before the
storm system wore out."
      "The storm developed so fast that forecaster skipped
issuing a tornado watch for LaSalle County and issued a
more urgent tornado warning at 5:32 p.m., 26 minutes
before the first funnel cloud was spotted near LaSalle and
37 minutes before another hit Utica."
      In neighboring Indiana, "at least three tornadoes
touched down before 5:30 p.m. in Michigantown (population
406), causing sporadic damage to the small town 20 miles
(32 kilometers) east of Lafayette, Clinton County
Emergency Management Department officials reported."
      Fortean researcher Loren Coleman commented, "For
those who have some awareness of Jim Brandon's past
comments on the intriguing way that tornadoes, trailers
and the Fayette Factor seem to frequently overlap, you
have to do nothing more than look at the unfolding spring
tornado season" in the USA.
      A mysterious fire destroyed an automobile in upstate
New York.
      "A Waterloo man faces drunken driving charges after
his car impacted in a ditch in Fayette, N.Y."
      "Marty D. Colegrove, 27, of 9 East Elizabeth Street,"
Waterloo, N.Y., "is charged with failure to use a
designated lane and driving while intoxicated when his car
went off the road on state Road 414 and went into a
ditch."
      "The Seneca County Sheriff's Dept. reports Colegrove
tried to get himself out of the ditch by driving out, but
heavy acceleration caused flames to engulf the vehicle.
No injuries were reported."
      In Tennessee, as if mimicking the mysterious air
crash in Mobile, Alabama in October 2002, a small airplane
went missing in a thunderstorm.
      "Authorities have found the wreckage of an
experimental airplane and say only one person was found
dead at the scene."
      "Shelby County Sheriff's spokesman Steve Shular says
the debris was spotted by the department's helicopter.
That was shortly before 1 p.m." on Thursday, April 22,
2004 "just north of Oakland in Fayette County."
      "The Federal Aviation Administration had notified
local authorities that the plane had disappeared from
radar as a thunderstorm passed through the area around 10
a.m."
      Unusual deaths and weird crimes rounded out the rest
of last week's Fayette-related incidents.
      "A young Fayette County couple has been ordered held
for trial on charges that they let their five-month-old
son freeze to death while they attended an outdoor beer
bash back in mid-autumn 2001."
      "Michael David King, 23, and his wife, Jennifer Sue
King, 22, both of 275 Washington Street, Oliver (Kentucky)
each have been charged with one count of involuntary
manslaughter and two counts of reckless endangerment."
      "State police allege that the Kings left their two
children in the family car when they went to a bonfire at
the site of a former strip (coal) mine in Stewart
Township, near State Gamelands 51 and the village of Chalk
Hill."
(Editor's Comment:  There might be a lexilink here, as in
"Gamelands (Area) 51.")
      "Witnesses testified that about 20 people attended
the November 10, 2001 party, which had a keg of beer."
      "The younger of the Kings' two children, Jonathan
Michael, died of hypothermia early the following morning,"
November 11, 2001.  "Their daughter, 23-month-old
Courtney, had to be hospitalized for respiratory problems,
according to police, but she survived."
      "The Kings remain free on $25,000 assured bond."
      In North Carolina, "a Fayetteville teenager has been
charged in Tuesday's abduction of a three-year-old Salem
County girl, Jai-Mya Lamon Glover."  The suspect is being
held on $500,000 bail bond.
      In Arkansas, "Work began Wednesday," April 21, 2004,
"in Fayetteville, Ark. to restore a historic monument that
has been vandalized several times."
      In Massachusetts, "homeless rights activists are up
in arms after eight people landed in jail last Wednesday
night during a rally in Lafayette Square" in Somerville, a
suburb just north of Boston.
      Finally, Loren Coleman got a shock Tuesday, April 20,
2004, when he read this strange little story in the
Lexington, Ky. Herald-Leader.
      "Lester Coleman, the conspiracy theorist and former
Lexington, Ky. radio host convicted in 2000 for check
fraud is suing Fayette County, the state and
Commonwealth's Attorney Ray Larson for allegedly violating
his constitutional rights."
      "In the federal court, Coleman says that Circuit
Judge Thomas Clark went against the jury-recommended four-
year sentence by sending him to prison for ten years.
Clark did so by making the sentences for the check-fraud
counts run consecutively rather than concurrently."
      "In 2003, Coleman admitted he violated the terms of
his probation by leaving Kentucky without permission.  He
was arrested in Florida and had been residing for months
in New Orleans, where he said he found God."
      "Coleman gained international fame for his theory
that PanAm Flight 103 exploded over Lockerbie, Scotland in
1988 because of a drug sting gone sour."
      Loren Coleman is no relation to the Kentucky radio
host.  But, he notes, earlier in his writing career, a
newspaper mistakenly identified him as "Lester Coleman."
(See the Chicago Tribune for April 22, 2004, "8 killed
seeking shelter in pub" and "Rescuers come from across
state;" the Rochester, N.Y. Democrat & Chronicle for April
19, 2004, "Waterloo man accused to DWI after car catches
fire;" Channel 3 news broadcast from Memphis, Tenn. for
April 23, 2004, "Missing plane found, one dead;" and the
Lexington, Ky. Herald-Leader for April 20, 2004.  Many
thanks to Loren Coleman and Rose Vrabel for these news
stories.)
(Editor's Comment: When I read the headline, CONSPIRACY
THEORIST COLEMAN, on the article about Loren's unusual
"doppelganger," I thought for a minute I'd wandered into
an episode of The Twilight Zone.)


SECOND MYSTERY BLACKOUT
STRIKES L.A. AIRPORT

      "Los Angeles International Airport suffered its
second power outage in eight days" on Monday, April 19,
2004, "although flights were not disrupted thanks to
backup batteries."
      A week earlier, on Monday, April 12, 2004, a
mysterious blackout knocked out the airport's power for a
few hours.  Outgoing flights were delayed, and incoming
planes were diverted to other airports in southern
California.
      "A malfunctioning transformer was blamed for leaving
some airport buildings without regular electricity for
nearly two hours Monday.  The cause of the electricity
problems wasn't known."
      "'It's a little disturbing,' said Bob Marks, regional
vice president of the National Air Traffic Controllers
Association.  'This sure seems like a fragile power
infrastructure.'"
      "The airport's April 12 power failure lasted less
than a second, but caused radar and communications systems
at the tower to malfunction and forced dozens of planes to
be delayed.  Officials suspect a bird landing on a wire
was the cause."
      "Monday's blackout began at 11:31 a.m., causing
lights to flicker in the airport.  Alternate power
returned immediately to some buildings; others remained on
emergency lights until 1:19 p.m."  (See the Los Angeles
Times for April 20, 2004.  Many thanks to Jim Hickman for
this newspaper article.  And be sure to visit Jim's Web
site at http://www.thehickmanreport.com.)


AN ISRAELI ASSAULT ON THE
ANTARCTIC REICH?

      Strange incidents last week involving the State of
Israel and New Zealand, Chile and Antarctica have some
observers wondering if Ariel Sharon's world war is about
to go south in a big way.
      In New Zealand, "police set a trap for the Mossad
spooks when officials became suspicious about a particular
passport application and, noting an irregularity,
contacted the illegal applicant, who turned out to be not
only wheelchair-bound--but also in residential care."
      "According to officials, the man who made the
passport application was one Zev William Barkan, who had
an American or Canadian accent.  He claimed to be going to
Australia to get married and was therefore in a hurry."
      "The police were informed, and the trap was baited.
Barkan left the country and arranged to have the passport
picked up by his two friends, Eli Cara and Uriel Zashe
Kelman."
      "Someone contacted the passport office on March 23
(2004) but would not pick up the passport in person.
Instead, it was sent to a company, Travcour, that is in
the business of procuring visas and other travel
documents.  Later Travcour was contacted by someone who
told them to deliver the passport to an address in St.
Paul, Auckland (New Zealand).  The landlord at this
address told police that he had been in contact with a
former tenant, who said he was expecting a package, and
that he would send a taxi to pick it up."
      "When the taxi approached, Cara, who was sitting in a
nearby cafe keeping a close watch on the proceedings,
followed the taxi driver into the building.  The police
soon swooped down on Cara, and in the process caught his
accomplice, Kelman, who was waiting to pick up the
package.  He tried to walk away and his his cell phone in
some bushes, but the cops got him, too."
      "New Zealand Prime Minister Helen Clark is furious
and has vowed 'a strong and public response once the court
action has concluded.'"
      While the Mossad has been picking up phony passports
in New Zealand, soldiers of the Zahal (Israeli Defence
Forces or IDF) have been sighted in extraordinarily large
numbers in southern Chile.
      Kawther Salam, a Palestinian tourist, reported, "In
January (2004), I went for vacations to the Chilean
Patagonia.  I found a land of wild beauty almost
impossible to describe, but I also found my old
acquaintances from Hebron, the IDF soldiers.  I saw the
Israelis myself, first on the ship from Puerto Montt to
Chaiten and then everywhere until Candelario Mansilla to
the south."
      "They always travel in groups of five to seven
persons, always with one or two women among them, and they
avoid contact with the locals and others to the utmost
degree.  A Chilean with some knowledge in these matters
that they travel in configurations which would correspond
to missions of reconnaissance and insertion."
      "Nobody knows for sure why the Israeli military is
sending their soldiers on missions to Patagonia.  Several
hayalim (Hebrew for soldiers--J.T.) told my (Chilean)
friend that the IDF finances their trip after they
complete their military service."
      "At the boat ramp in Candelario Mansilla, there were
two units of Israeli military apparently waiting for the
(Israeli) officer aboard the ship.  They all surrounded
him and exchanged information between each other, the
three officers apparently exchanging information on
handheld devices that they had with them.  Later the
officers retired to a private place in the nearby woods,
while their troops waited for them on the ramp."
      Finally, a massive project is underway in Antarctica
to build a year-round, all-weather road from McMurdo Sound
to the South Pole.
      "Six Americans have just ended a second year of what
looks like an impossible mission--carving out a road to
the South Pole."
      "The 1,020-mile 'ice highway' from the (Antarctic)
coast directly south of New Zealand will enable hundreds
of tons of supplies and equipment to be hauled across the
world's most inhospitable wilderness on tractor-pulled
sleds to the pole's Amundsen-Scott base, a research
station."
      "Currently, cargo planes fly in scientists and
supplies during the four-month summer."
      "Where once there was only ice wilderness, now there
is a packed surface 20 feet (6 meters) wide lined with
green flags, winding through huge crevasse fields, snow
'swamps' and flat pack ice."
      "After two summers of hard going, the $20 million
South Pole Traverse Project has carved 425 miles (680
kilometers), and manager John Wright is convinced it can
be completed, although not by next summer as originally
hoped."
      "The completion date--the end of the polar summer in
2006, followed by an international environmental review
before it can be used, probably no more than three times
per year."
      "In contrast, C-130 cargo planes use ice runways in
Antarctica several times a day during the summer."
      "'It's just a matter of time and work,' Wright told"
the media in an email interview from the USA-operated
McMurdo base on Antarctica's coast.
      "'Last year, it took three months to go three miles
(5 kilometers) across a crevasse field filled with dozens
of hollow crevasses.  This year, we are 'breaking
trail'...a long, slow, slog in soft snow.'"
      "In the 'snow swamp,' a 180-mile (288-kilometer)
wide, 6-feet (1.8-meter) deep field of powder snow,
progress slowed to as little as 6 miles (10 kilometers)
per day for the three tractors towning accomodation huts
and fuel tanks."
      "Instead of gliding along on the surface, tractors
and sleds plowed deep into the snow, stuck fast and had to
be hauled out by vehicles traveling behind them."
      "Wright said the road's newly compacted surface will
remain solid over the winter (April to October 2004--J.T.)
and will be useable next year, though the road itself will
move, as the ice shelf is in slow, fluid motion."
      "From one summer to the next, the crevasse field
moved about 1,000 feet (300 meters) north and grew about
100 feet (30 meters) higher."
      "'The ice had stretched,' he said."
      "Also, five new crevasses appeared in the road's
surface during the eight-month winter and had to be filled
with snow and ice before the tractors could continue.
Crevasse filling is expected to be an annual chore."
      "The U.S. National Science Foundation is paying for
the project."
      Since the 1950s, there have been rumors of an
Antarctic Reich, a colony called Neuschwabenland (German
for New Swabia--J.T.), located in the Muhlig-Hoffman
Mountains of the Princess Astrid Coast.  Founded in 1944
by 12,500 SS refugees who fled Europe in large U-boats,
the Nazi enclave is now rumored to have about 2 million
residents.
      Of the original SS "Last Battalion" and women of the
Antarktisches Seidlungensfrauen (ASF), only a handful of
octogenarians are left.  The current residents are
children, grandchildren and great-grandchildren of the
"Aryan settlers" that Reichsfuhrer-SS Heinrich Himmler
sent to the southern continent in the last days of World
War II.  For 60 years, the enclave has been completely cut
off from the outside world.
      "The presence of Israeli combat troops in Chile is
interesting," UFO Roundup editor Joseph Trainor noted.
"It sounds like Ariel Sharon is getting ready to attack
Colonia Dignidad, a very real Nazi enclave in the Andes of
Chile.  But even more intriguing is the ice highway to the
South Pole."
      Trainor pointed out that the ruins of Kadath, a
colony of the lost continent of Atlantis are also rumored
to be in the same area as Neuschwabenland.
      "The ice road can accomodate tanks as well as supply
tractors.  Is Sharon planning to use the Amundsen-Scott
base as a springboard for an Israeli armored assault on
the Nazi colony?  Is that why he's moving all those troops
into Chile and New Zealand?"
      "There might be another reason," Trainor added.
"Perhaps there really is a secret archaeological dig in
Antarctica.  Maybe the ruins of Kadath have been
discovered.  Large alien artifacts might have been found
at the site.  Too big to be flown out.  And the ice
highway is needed to haul them to the coast."  (See the
New Zealand Herald for April 10, 2004 and the Fortean
Times daily bulletin for April 14, 2004.)


      Well, that's it for this week.  Join us in seven days
for more UFO, Fortean and paranormal news from around the
planet Earth, brought to you by "the paper that goes home-
-UFO Roundup."  See you next time.

UFO ROUNDUP: Copyright 2004 by Masinaigan Productions, all
rights reserved.  Readers may post news items from UFO
Roundup on their Web sites or in news groups provided that
they credit the newsletter and its editor by name and list
the date of issue in which the item first appeared.

E-Mail Reports to: Joseph Trainor <Masinaigan.nul>
or use the Sighting Report Form at:

http://www.ufoinfo.com/forms/form_sighting.htm

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Website comments: John Hayes <webmaster.nul>

UFOINFO: http://www.ufoinfo.com

Official Archives for UFO Roundup, AUFORN Australian
UFO Reports and Experiences, UFO + PSI Magazine
plus archives of Humanoid Sighting Reports (Albert
Rosales), Filer's Files, Oz Files, UFO News UK.
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   Location: VirtuallyStrange.net > UFO > UpDates Mailing List > 2004 >
   Apr > Apr 27

                     Bill Hamilton Announces Retirement

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 14:52:40 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 14:52:40 -0400
Subject: Bill Hamilton Announces Retirement




From: Bill Hamilton <skywatcher22.nul>
X-Originating-IP: [128.97.38.99]
To: Skyopen.nul
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 06:29:37 -0700
Subject: [SO] Retirement Announcement



My announced retirement is now posted on my website at:

http://www.skywatch-research.org/ufo.html

Instead of UFO research, I will be pursuing research in other
areas such as ESP, astrobiology, and cosmology. I have a
particular interest in the Cosmic Code and the Intelligent
Universe.

I sincerely appreciate all the contact I have had with the good
people I have found along the way and feel it is necessary at
this time that we need better social and spiritual practices to
balance our material achievements. Like the song says, we all
need to come together and love one another right now as we all
come from the same seeds of life despite our differing
appearances. And we all need to heal the Earth.

In Brotherhood and Peace,

Bill Hamilton
Executive Director
Skywatch International, Inc.
Website:
http://www.skywatch-research.org
Fiat Lux et Veritas







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   Apr > Apr 27

                   Re: Mars Crater Water Lake - Stevenson

From: Colin Stevenson <colsweb.nul>
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 19:32:01 +0100
Fwd Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 15:09:39 -0400
Subject: Re: Mars Crater Water Lake - Stevenson


>From: Kelly Freeman <Khfflsciufo.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 10:18:06 EDT
>Subject: Re: Mars Crater Water Lake

>>From: Colin Stevenson <colsweb.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 06:22:59 +0100
>>Subject: Mars Crater Water Lake

><snip>

>>I went to the above sites and looked at the photographs and they
>>were definitely interesting. However, my first impression was
>>that of a huge hole. If it is water, it would have to be an
>>awfully deep body of water. Correct me if I am wrong, but
>>wouldn't water tend to be of a lighter color? Seems too dark.
>>On_my_computer, it just seems to be a dark indistinguishable
>>color.

>>Also, I noticed that on the right side of the image of this
>>lake/hole it seemed to be curving upwards. Would this be due to
>>a photographic anomaly? Or am I seeing things? Just a first
>>impression... and I'm certainly not a professional in photo
>>analysis!

>In my first post - above - I didn't mean to reply as if
>water_exists_ now. I should have used the past tense. My
>apologies to you and the List. I will try and go wake up now.

>However, I still find the curvature upwards at the right of the
>image interesting. Does it look that way to you?


Hello Kelly

Interesting observation which the

http://themis.la.asu.edu/zoom-20040422a.html

website would be interested in and maybe someone could do a 3D
map of the area from the original data ( 2 strips ) to see if
your point is valid. Like yourself  I'm not an expert and the
themis web are scratching their heads somewhat in regard to
this. There are also other area's, as you probably know, which
show this type of discoloration even in full colour of
dark/light blue/black.

You say water existed in the past but this same themis website
shows what it believes as new snow cover albeit nearer the poles
( 1998/9 era I think )?

kind wishes
col






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   Apr > Apr 27

                  Argentine Shepherds Feared UFO Abduction

From: Scott Corrales <lornis1.nul>
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 15:06:36 -0400
Fwd Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 18:04:19 -0400
Subject: Argentine Shepherds Feared UFO Abduction



Source: Diario "El Tribuno" (Salta, Argentina)

http://www.eltribuno.com.ar/2004/salta

April 27, 2004


La Poma: Another Sighting In The Chalchaqui Valleys

**Shepherds Feared UFO Abduction***

**It ws an intense light that suddenly began moving and stopped
above us. I thought it would whisk us away**

The terrifying story was told by Julio Rafael Espinosa, 39, a
farmer of the La Poma region, who two weeks ago - in the
company of his two sons and an elderly shepherdess, witnessed
one of so many luminous apparitions at Quebrada de Orozco, some
20 kilometers away from the aforementioned community in the
Chalchaqu=ED Valleys.

"On that night, around 20:30, we were waiting on National
Highway 40, which links La Poma to San Antonio de los Cobres,
for the merchandise truck that passes by a few times a week
bringing novelties with it and supplies," the man recalled as he
hugged one of his sons. Espinoza added: "We were with my two
boys, ages 6 and 9, and with Grandma Braulia, 82, a sheperdess
who is a neighbor of our stand in the Sauzalito area, when
suddenly, a luminous object appeared out of the slopes of the
Nevado de Cachi, flying at low altitude and zigzagging."

According to the humble farmer's testimony, the large object's
luminosity increased and diminished in the measure that it
approached the point where the group observed the phenomenon at
the edge of the road, surrounded by the mountainous massifs of
La Poma. Espinoza says that they were perplexed and nearly
frozen by the situation until the UFO stood over their heads,
which was the time of greatest luminous intensity emanating from
the vehicle. "It lasted only an instant. It was motionless in
the air, some fifty meters above us and its white light would
become yellowish. It had no shape... it was like an enormous,
refulgent mass," he recalled.

The shepherd said that after a few seconds,  the object lost
itself swiftly among the northern hills in the vicinity of the
location known as Punta del Agua. "The UFO came from the area of
La Poma and the entire event lasted some three minutes, from the
moment it appeared, stood over us, and vanished. After that, we
remained waiting for the truck, didn't say anything to anybody,
and left. The next day Grandma Braulia told me that that wasn't
the first time she'd seen a similar phenomenon in the area.
Before that I though I was the only one who had seen so many
flying objects. However, many more locals have witnessed this
phenomenon," the man said.

Espinosa, a privileged eyewitness to this new sighting, had
already witnessed similar events, such as one last December as
he travelled in the company of six people aboard a bus on the
Tin Tin highway.  On that occasion, he managed to see lights
similar to those of a UFO on the ground in middle of Los
Cardones National Park. But on that occasion, Espinoza claims
having seen some aliens descending from the craft and who
appeared to be taking samples of the soil or shrubs growing in
the region.

Somewhat more confidently, Espinosa dared to reflect that "this
area appears to be used by these strange devices as a passageway
to the Cordilleran reagion, because it's surrounded by large
massifes and the basin of the Chalchaqu=ED River could serve as
permanent means of communication toward the Andes."

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

Translation (C) 2004. Scott Corrales Institute of Hispanic Ufology (IHU)
Special thanks to Gloria Coluchi







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   Apr > Apr 28

                    St. Catharines, Ontario Sighting 1999

From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO <hbccufo.nul>
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 14:17:39 -0700
Fwd Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 11:49:18 -0400
Subject: St. Catharines, Ontario Sighting 1999


St.Catharine's, Ontario

Date:  1999
Time:  Approx: 3:00 p.m.

In 1999 at approx: 3:00 p.m. on a Sunday in St.Catharines we
were stopped at the lights on Welland Ave. in front of the A & P
my husband noticed something just above us. Sticking my head out
the window and yelling at the hubby to do the same. We saw a
long ship hovering about 500 yds and I could also see people
looking our way. They too seemed to be in a bit of a shock, then
in a instant it vanished. (the sky was clear, not a cloud
insight. We will never forget this once in a life time "great
experience"

Additional information provided by the witness below:

Hello and you're welcome,

St. Catharine's Ontario, that's correct. Yes my husband and
myself were the witness in the vehicle. We had no pets with us
at the time of the sighting. There were a few people on the
street but I'm not sure if they noticed what we saw. We were
pretty shocked and a bit dumb-founded. The shape was like a
silver-bullet trailer but alot longer and larger, quite frankly
it was huge. There looked to be an observation deck and I could
see the people inside. Underneath this platform were many small
shaped windows like seen on a ship. It was white/silver in
color. No blue, red or orange lights that we could see, no haze
was seen either.

One thing I will tell you is that the people on that craft did
notice us looking back at them and for a brief moment I made eye
contact with one of them. This being looked just like me,
female. She nor the others appeared to have large heads and big
eyes. Then it vanished in a instant, I blinked and it was gone.
There was no sound that we could here. I said to my hubby how
could something that big just hover? He has always been
interested in planes etc. and he said I don't "explanatory"
know! What the heck was that?! No aircraft did we see or hear
afterwards. An older lady once told me: if your always looking
up towards the sky this means your a good person, I think my
hubby and I are fortunate soul's for having the opportunity to
see what we did that day!

Enjoy your day.

-----

Thank you to the witness for the wonderful report.


Brian Vike

Director HBCC UFO Research
Home - Phone 250 845 2189
email: hbccufo.nul
Website: http://www.hbccufo.com
Redirect: http://www.brianvike.com
Redirect: http://www.hbccuforesearch.com








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                Disappointing Release Of UK's New UFO Monthly

From: Santiago Yturria <syturria.nul>
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 19:18:31 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 11:53:22 -0400
Subject: Disappointing Release Of UK's New UFO Monthly


I just reviewed the first issue of the new UFO Monthly online
magazine in PDF format wich is free just for this time and is
being published from the UK by Gary Heseltine and Russel
Callaghan.

I must say that I had good expectations for this new informative
publication and finally they released this issue dated  April
27, 2004. The issue beguins with a report of the recent 13th
Annual International UFO Congress Convention and Film Festival
that took place in February 8 - 14, 2004 in wich I was honored
to be invited and gave a conference.

Unfortunately the announced report covered only my conference
and my friend's Haktan Akdogan, researcher from Turkey even that
there were other important speakers like Bud Hopkins, Roger
Leir, Jim Marrs, George Filer etc.

In his reviews Russel Callaghan just debunked both of us. In my
case I was expecting something like this from Russel due to
personal conflicts that obey to vested interests derived from my
involvement in the research of several UFO cases in the UK since
2001.

I'm convinced that Russel motives for his debunk of my work is
purely personal and I accepted the challenge when I was going to
meet him again in Laughlin two months ago. Russel words now
confirm this fact in his supposedly review of the second case I
presented of Miss Parker's experiences. I will quote Russel
words to prove he is just following a certain sorrow and anger
towards Miss Parker and myself instead of being objective and
analyze my lecture on this case as he announced.

QUOTE: " Although I found some of this material interesting and
unusual I could'nt help remembering Abbey Parker promising to
send me all her footage for evaluation during my time in UFO
Magazine, a colleague of hers had sent me some internet quality
clips that looked good with the promise from Abbey that I would
get the original videos to enable me to carry out proper
research and evaluation. After many emails I was finally
informed that she had decided to give her material to Santiago
and apologized for messing me about. "

This short comment was the review of my presentation on this
case. Nothing about the testimonials, videos, photos and facts
that I exposed to the audience during almost half hour of my
whole conference. It's clear to me that Russel was more
interested in express his disappointment for not being able to
handle this case.

But this situations are common in our ufologic community and
interests conflicts are always present. I know this and accept
the consequences. Despite our differences I still consider
Russel Callaghan a friend unless he decide the contrary.

What I can not accept under any circumstance is the offensive
comments he wrote about the audience gathered at my conference
including media representatives, congress directors and
collagues researchers, some of them from the UK. I quote again
Russel Callaghan words in reference to the audience that
attended my conference on Saturday 14, 2004.

QUOTE: " I don't want this to sound like I am debunking
Santiago's work, I am not, the authenticity of what is presented
must be a personal decision, although I feel if I had presented
such a material  at a lecture here in the UK and made similar
claims, unlike the US audience who " whooped and

cheered " and sent Santiago off with a standing ovation, I think
I might well have been dodging rotten tomatoes. Like the
differences in our sense of humour it seems the Atlantic ocean
also divided our sense of objectivity "

I found this statement from Russel highly offensive and very
serious for the people that year by year gather together with
great expectations and good faith at the International UFO
Congress. For the congress and their directors that have opened
their doors for us researchers to present our work and release
our investigations. Even for the respected collagues that
coincided at the conference room this year. To declare or
suggest that all of them are just a bunch of naive morons that
have not the criteria to judge and evaluate the content of a
conference is a very serious statement.

For Russel Callaghan " all of them are wrong, I'm the only right
" position reveals only his arrogance and twisted point of view
of things. Russel even has the daring of adopt all the british
people's criteria to fit his own illusory posture as supreme
exponent of the infallible knlowledge.

Russel forgot convenientely to say that I also received three
standing ovations in Leeds, England after my conference in the
congress by the UFO Magazine and the audience reacted freely
following their own impulses wich I feel honored and grateful.
Audiences can not be deceived easely as Russel suggests, it
doses'nt matter if they are in the US, the UK or anywhere.

Among the audience during my conference at Laughlin there were
several collagues researchers and friends from the UK. They even
invited me to give a lecture next year and congratulated me for
my conference. To imply that these persons are ignorant without
criteria is just nonsense.

In my personal point of view Russel Callaghan made a terrible
mistake and exposed himself as a disoriented and bitter person.
Too bad how he has lost the track of respect and good manners
since the collapse of the UFO

Magazine. His offensive words require an inmediate public
apologize, not for me but for all that people gathered at the
Laughlin conference and made that reunion one of the most
memorable of all times in the IUFOC history.

It's now clear to me that Russel Callaghan will use this new
publication UFO Monthly as a tribune just for his personal
private intentions disguissed in a premise of total
objectiveness but in reality following a hidden agenda. This is
my personal point of view. About the subscription for the
publication this is what I think : Not a single dime.


Santiago Yturria








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                 Tress Splitting & Blue Flashes Fernie B.C.

From: Brian Vike - HBCC UFO <hbccufo.nul>
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 18:03:37 -0700
Fwd Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 12:10:03 -0400
Subject: Tress Splitting & Blue Flashes Fernie B.C.



This case is under investigation.

-----

Fernie, British Columbia - Tress Splitting & Blue Flashes

Date:  April 18th, 2004
Time:   3:30 a.m.


Number of witnesses: 4
Number of objects: ?
Shape of objects: ?

Full Description of event/sighting: We did not see an object,
therefore we do not know if it was a UFO experience, however the
feeling was as such and the witness' thought that it was some
sort of "supernatural/UFO" sighting.

At 9:00 pm a person sitting alone downstairs in the house was
looking out the window, she saw, into the forest, two trees go
in opposite directions, as if one went far to the right and the
other far to the left. She did not tell anyone of this until
 the morning when we told her of our experience which happened
at 3:30.

At an undisclosed time of the evening the neighbor saw what she
thought to be flashes out the back, (same direction), she
thought we were taking pictures, we were not. She told us of
this in the morning when I asked her if she had seen anything
darning the night.

At approximately 3:30 am four of us were sitting downstairs  in
the house. One of the ladies jumped and said "did you see
that?", one of the others said yes and they described that they
had seen two trees split, as one going to the far right and one
going to the far left, behind the trees that were "splitting"
there was a very bright flash of light. About 10 minutes later
one of the same two ladies jumped from her seat, started to cry
and said "what the heck was that?", the other lady had seen it
too.

They described what looked like a strobe light effect.

The next day we found out about the other two experiences.

I am submitting this sighting because of the fact that it was
seen in three different time frames by three different "groups"
of people, as well as the impact that it had on the two people
that I was with was a very frightened reaction.

I am hoping to find out if anyone else saw anything that night.

Thank you to the witness for the report.


Brian Vike

Director HBCC UFO Research
Home - Phone 250 845 2189
email: hbccufo.nul
Website: http://www.hbccufo.com
Redirect: http://www.brianvike.com
Redirect: http://www.hbccuforesearch.com








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   Apr > Apr 28

              Government Secrecy Exposed With 14 Million+ Hits

From: John Greenewald, Jr. <tbvfuture.nul>
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 23:59:06 -0700 (Pacific Standard Time)
Fwd Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 12:14:47 -0400
Subject: Government Secrecy Exposed With 14 Million+ Hits


FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

Government Secrecy Exposed At Record Rate of 14 Million+ Hits in
April

NORTHRIDGE (BlackVault) - April 28, 2004 - Government Secrecy
has taken a great leap at being exposed with record breaking
numbers in the month of April. The Black Vault, a website
devoted to exposing many levels of government secrecy, has hit
record traffic not seen in the existence of The Black Vault.

Located at:

http://www.blackvault.com/

The Black Vault will reach an estimated 14,315,773 hits for the
month of April. This is up from just under 10,000,000 hits in
March. The site will also reach a level of around 100 gigabytes
of data being downloaded this month as well, a level never
before reached by The Black Vault.

Users can reach a database of 115,989 pages of government
documents on subjects ranging from the UFO cover-up to the
existence of chemical and biological tests on humans. The
subject matter seems never-ending when looking through thousands
of pages, but that is far from all.

The database extends to image galleries stretching to about
20,000 photographs from the DoD on Military Aviation, a WWII
image gallery, and even one archive devoted to those mysterious
and unexplained UFO pictures. A message forum that has an
additional 268,936 messages (at the time of this release) from
users worldwide, which makes The Black Vault one of the largest
archives and databases in the world.

Even more mysterious is the fact that it is run by only one
person. Recently turned 23 year old John Greenewald, Jr. has
spent most of his life exposing government secrets at the age of
15. Starting with no knowledge of the Freedom of Information Act
(FOIA), John fought his way through the struggle of learning the
process and now, approaching 8 years later, has amassed an
archive second to only the U.S. Government itself.

Statistics show the U.S. and the world is watching. They =D8=F8
thirst for the knowledge of government secrecy and what the
military does not want us to see.

Thirst for more? Greenewald has just completed another
bombardment of the government for secrecy related material. A
recently completed batch of Freedom of Information Act requests
was sent out to countless agencies, and totaled a whopping 135
requests in a single day.

The secrecy within the government is there, and The Black Vault
is here to expose it.

-----

John Greenewald, Jr.
The Black Vault Headquarters
18127 Parthenia St. #105
Northridge, Ca. 91325

Interview Requests can be submitted to john.nul who
is available at any time.








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                 They Are Aliens & They Came To Ilkley Moor

From: Terry Groff <terry.nul>
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 06:29:29 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 12:18:19 -0400
Subject: They Are Aliens & They Came To Ilkley Moor


Source: Leeds Today

http://www.leedstoday.net/ViewArticle.aspx?SectionID=39&ArticleID=781356

04-28-04


They are aliens. And they came to ...Ilkley Moor

By Grant Woodward

Yorkshire folk are renowned for their down-to-earth approach to
life.

But it seems these days many Tykes harbour thoughts that are,
quite literally, out of this world.

According to a new poll, one in three people in the county
believe in the existence of aliens, while one in 12 reckons they
have actually seen a UFO.

And Yorkshire expert Russ Kellet said he was not surprised one
bit by the findings - which emerged in an online survey.
He said: "This demonstrates the level of belief in the potential
of alien existence.

"I'm not surprised at the response because Yorkshire has long
been recognised as one of the top places for sightings.
"I have the evidence, including sighting reports, photography and
video footage to prove that this area is now the UFO capital of
the UK."

World-renowned sightings in Yorkshire include 1974's 'Cigar', a
100ft silver object hovering over Bradford, and an alien on
Ilkley Moor in 1987.

Meanwhile, hundreds of residents reported seeing two orbs of
light traveling at very low speed across the region in 1998.
Mr. Kellet, 40, from Filey, has been studying the phenomena since
spotting what he believes to be a UFO near Keighley over 15 years
ago.

He said: "I think people in Yorkshire are more open to the idea
of aliens than they were a few years ago.

"The evidence is starting to stack up and it's becoming difficult
to ignore with all the documentaries that are on TV."

The survey, conducted by the National Lottery among more than
2,000 people, also looked at the lighter side of the alien debate
by asking them to name their scariest extra terrestrial.

In first place was the alien which burst out of John Hurt's chest
and then proceeded to hunt down Sigourney Weaver and her crew in
the original Alien movie.

The aliens voted the least scary of all time were the Daleks from
TV show Doctor Who, who were intent on taking over the world
despite not being able to cope with a flight of stairs.


grant.woodward.nul








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   Apr > Apr 28

                    The Lobizon Rides Again In Argentina

From: Scott Corrales <lornis1.nul>
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 10:12:31 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 12:30:46 -0400
Subject: The Lobizon Rides Again In Argentina


INEXPLICATA
The Journal of Hispanic Ufology
April 27, 2004


Source: El Once Digital and La Calle Online (Entre Rios, Argentina)

Date: April 27, 2004

IS THERE A LOBIZON IN OUR CITY?

A story that some people took with good humor and which created
anxiety among others gave rise to a state of general unrest -
 and a desire to know the truth - regarding the being that has
kept the community on tenterhooks.

It is said that a person with a deformed face, an out-of-
proportion body, about the size of a calf and with extremely red
eyes, has terrified an important sector of the city's
northwestern quarter.

The strange apparition comes about at night, has been seen by
some people and at least two of them had been hospitalized in a
state of shock in our city's medical center, according to some
residents.

Without going any further, our newsroom received a phone call
yesterday complaining about a similar situation, since an
elderly man had a shocking experience when this entity appeared
before him as he rode his bicycle.

The story is strange and it is a fact that several employees of
the meat packing plant located in the city's northwestern sector
have expressed a certain fear of running into the strange
"lobiz=F3n".

LINKS:

http://www.lacalle-online.com/noticias.php?id=3D28934
http://www.eloncedigital.com.ar/muestranoticia.asp?noticia_ID=3D5903

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

Translation (c) 2004 Scott Corrales Institute of Hispanic Ufology (IHU)
Special thanks to Gloria Coluchi.








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               Chile: New Chupacabras Attacks In South America

From: Scott Corrales <lornis1.nul>
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 10:31:29 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 12:33:41 -0400
Subject: Chile: New Chupacabras Attacks In South America



INEXPLICATA
The Journal of Hispanic Ufology
April 27, 2004

Source: Fundacion Cosmos AC and www.toc.com

Date: April 27, 2004

NEW CHUPACABRAS ATTACKS IN SOUTH AMERICA

Arturo Strange is adamant. He insists that it is not common for
a dog attack to result in all of their prey bunched up, as he
has seen inside his henhouse -- one chicken piled on top of
another. Furthermore, he maintains that "there is a hole in the
back through which the creature came in. As far as I know, dogs
don't dig and travel underground."

A henhouse suffered a bloody attack in this area and this time
25 hens were the victims--along with don Arturo Strange's
wallet. The owner of the birds is a long-time resident of the
Pudeto Alto sector in Ancud, a region where the urban borders
the rural. It cannot be said that the rooster stirred things up
in the small henhouse, since he too paid with his life for being
at the wrong place at the wrong time.

No one can disabuse Strange of the notion that the animal that
killed his birds is a strange beast--the Chupacabras itself. He
is so convinced by this that despite having lost all of his
birds, he has summoned a veterinarian to conduct an analysis.
This has happened only two days after a mink was shot in the
outskirts of Llanquihue. On that occasion, 14 birds were shot by
the animal, who is known for sucking blood and entrails out of
its victim, which led people to believe that the Chupacabras was
involved.

In what is now being known as "the Ancud Case" it is possible to
believe that the Chupacabras was actually involved. Veterinarian
Andres Norambuena visited the scene of the attack at 13:00 hrs.
at 772 Pudeto Street. Without discarding any speculation, the
professional has ventured with some certainty that a dog could
be involved. But Strange is unconvinced, since he insists that
"the only dogs I heard barking yesterday were my own. The hens
didn't make a sound; they were nice and quiet."

Another person living in the same household corroborates this
thesis. The only thing that the veterinarian is willing to
consider with a fair amount of convicition is an attack by a
mink, but given the area's physical characteristics and the
density of buildings and human presence, this is doubtful.
"Minks attack massively, but I think this would be the first
such report ever known here. In other places there is
considerable carnage, since [the mink] is a rather aggressive
animal when it attacks. But we're in a city. It's unlikely that
it would ever come here," Norambuena observed, returning to his
original idea: "But this attack can be attributed to an animal
with a larger muzzle, such as a dog."

The owner of the property says that there are wild creatures in
the area, such as mountain cats and foxes, which have been seen
around where he lives, so he does not discard the possibility of
minks or the Chupacabras.

Strange's beliefs have been corroborated by local residents,
particularly on Las Americas street, where two residents have
witnessed an unknown animal. The creature was described as
having "an elongated body, pointy head, slanted eyes and stands
on two legs...I only saw it for a few seconds," says Jacqueline
Cordero, one of the locals, who  only six months ago saw an
unidentified creature that she believes claimed the lives of six
young chickens.

======================================================

Translation (c) 2004 Scott Corrales IHU
Special thanks to Ing. Marco Reynoso








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                    Evidence Of Patagonian Impact Crater?

From: Scott Corrales <lornis1.nul>
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 10:48:02 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 12:47:11 -0400
Subject: Evidence Of Patagonian Impact Crater?



INEXPLICATA
The Journal of Hispanic Ufology
April 27, 2004

Source: Fundacion Delphos (Argentina)

Date: April 27, 2004


An Asteroid Fell In Patagonia

An important but sadly underutilized Argentinean researcher,
Maximiliano Rocca, inferred through satellite imagery that the
center of Patagonia was the site of a giant meteorite impact -
 in other words, an asteroid collision - which created the
largest meteor impact crater on Earth.

The studies which led him to reach these conclusions have been
published on the Internet and in English, since as usual, his
discovery was only well-received abroad.

During our expedition last month to the site of our usual
archaeological and historical research, we were able to reach
the impact site thanks to the information provided by M. Rocca.
The exact site shall only be made known with the authorization
of Maximiliano Rocca.

On March 25, 2004, two units of Fundacion Delphos were able to
reach the crater and survey its full extent. The efforts of
Christian Morelli with GPS, satellite maps and his improvised
scale meters must be acknowledged (since the expedition would
have otherwise become lost in this tremendous and marvelous
landscape). It was with barely concealed excitement that we
descended the slopes of the gigantic crater.

To say that the site is impressive is to sell it short. The
surrounding edge is approximately 100 meters high, perfectly
circular, and it surrounded us as we progressed across the 4800
meter diameter of the crater. We were able to take video, photos
and samples.

Still to be analyzed is the meaning of certain dark, circular
spots, lacking vegetation and apparently burned, having a
diameter of approximately 40 meters, which were found outside
the crater. These circles are filled with some flat, black and
glassy stones. Every so often we can find smaller circles
measuring 1.20 meters in diameter which are perfectly flat and
clean.

The first photo shows the two Delphos units progressing within
the crater, near its western edge.

The second photo shows one of the flat, black and molten stones
within one of the strange circular spots.

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

Translation (c) 2004. Scott Corrales Institute of Hispanic
Ufology (IHU)

Special thanks to Ing. Fernando Fluguerto Mart=ED.








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                           UFOs In Iranian Skies?

From: Frank Warren <frank-warren.nul>
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 06:33:25 -0700
Fwd Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 12:50:30 -0400
Subject: UFOs In Iranian Skies?


Source: The Washington Times

http://washingtontimes.com/upi-breaking/20040428-075121-3924r.htm


UFOs in Iranian skies?

Tehran, Apr. 28 (UPI) -- Iranians are busy watching the night
skies in search of unidentified flying objects, which have lit
their air space for the past few nights, reports said.

The Iranian news agency, IRNA, said a beaming object was spotted
twice over several Iranian cities in the past few days, including
the western city of Kasr Shirin where people stormed the streets
to watch the suspected UFO.

They said the body which appeared in the sky Tuesday night is
circular and beaming white and blue lights. It was visible for 20
minutes and then disappeared, witnesses said.

The UFO was first spotted over the city of Kankaro, three days
ago, but it was beaming violet, green, red and blue lights and
stayed visible for an hour.










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                       National Post Article On Majic

From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul>
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 11:42:58 -0300
Fwd Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 12:54:36 -0400
Subject: National Post Article On Majic


Listers may be interested in the article on page B3 of today's
National Post (Toronto) about tonight's showing on SPACE: The
Imagination TV Channel at 9PM EDT (10PM ADT) of the new
documentary Do You Believe In Majic?, produced and directed by
Paul Kimball. The article (without the picture) is on the web
at:

http://www.canada.com/national/nationalpost/news/artslife/story.html?id=7782815f
-da46-497d-8e24-f72b7913caaa.

The hour long documentary, which I have not yet seen, features
me and Karl Pflock in a kind of point counterpoint... with
comments by a numberof other UFO researchers. One strange note
in the article is a silly comment about not needing a  caveat
(MAJIC) after TOP SECRET.

Reviewer Jason Chow seems to be unaware of the vast highly
classified literature using TOP SECRET Codeword... such as
Ultra, Umbra, Majic etc. The batch of 156 UFO Documents finally
released by the National Security Agency, while whiting out all
but about 2 lines of each page, did leave in place TOP SECRET
UMBRA at the top.

The codeword (MAJIC) is certainly appropriate in view of Wilbert
Smith's comment about  flying saucers being the most classified
subject in the US, even more so than the H-Bomb.Last time I
checked, the Kennedy Library had 10 drawers of Special Code Word
Documents.

For those with a serious interest in Majestic 12, despite the
frequent negative comments by people who haven't done their
homework, I do have available a new 26 page paper "Majestic 12
Documents Update" April 2004. In it I demonstrate that a number
of the TIM Cooper MJ-12 documents are fraudulent. Copies are
available for $4.US or 5$ Canadian from me at POB 958, Houlton,
ME 04740-0958 or 79 Pembroke Crescent, Federicton, NB Canada E3B
2V1 Includes postage.


Stan Friedman








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                     Richard Dolan's X-Conference Review

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 13:28:13 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 13:28:13 -0400
Subject: Richard Dolan's X-Conference Review




Source: Phenomena Magazine

http://www.phenomenamagazine.com/0/editorial.asp?aff_id=3D0&this_cat=3DArea+=
51&action=3Dpage&obj_id=3D927

Dateline: Tuesday, April 27, 2004


The X-Conference
Not Lights in the Sky, but Lies on the Ground

By: Richard M. Dolan
Senior Editor
Phenomena Magazine


Post 9-11 American Society has become like a cartoon image of an
inside-out human body. It is a society in which =96 as George
Orwell wrote long ago =96 black is white, up is down, and truth is
whatever Big Brother wants it to be. And yet, despite the
craziness of our society, people who believe in UFOs are still
considered the odd ones.

I think that's very interesting. For the more that I look at our
contemporary society, the more convinced I become that things
are deeply, deeply screwy.

I base my opinion not on any particular political position taken
by the current Builders of Empire under King George. Rather,
it=92s that no one seems to care whether any of the platitudes and
statements coming from America=92s official Talking Heads are even
true. Have people become so cynical that they've given up all
pretense to caring about... truth?

Maybe our collectively entrained apathy is just a defense
mechanism, like when you discover that your girlfriend no longer
thinks you're all that. In that sense, the puncturing of your
childhood ideals may not be much different than rejection from
your true love. You become the worst type of cynic: the kind who
gives up without trying to make things better.

But amid despair there remains hope. There are still people who
believe that truth matters, that justice matters, and most
importantly, that people actually deserve to hear truth and
receive justice. Wow. How old school.

Such a person is Stephen Bassett, a man who actually ran for
Congress recently on the platform of =96 get ready =96 UFO
disclosure. I know Steve, and can vouch for the fact that this
man is for real. For reasons which I have yet to understand,
Steve still believes in that elusive creature known as The
American Dream. He still believes in the future of the American
political system. He is the only registered lobbyist in
Washington DC regarding UFO disclosure. Think about that for
moment.

On April 17 and 18, in Washington DC (well, Gaithersburg, but
who=92s keeping tabs), Steve Bassett organized and hosted a major-
 political-ufological-conference-extravaganza: the X-Conference.
In the space of just two days at the Gaithersburg Hilton, he
packed 25 speakers from 5 countries to discuss the reality of
the UFO phenomenon, a coverup regarding same, and the necessity
of forcing official disclosure regarding that reality.
Certainly, there have been other conferences that focused on
such themes. But I don't believe that any of them was quite like
this one.

As one of the speakers, I experienced the frenetic pace of
activity quite directly. Although perhaps I cannot give the most
objective analysis, I know what I saw.

One thing I saw was a lot of people in attendance. About 650, in
fact. I was struck, too, by the relative youth of many
attendees. By youthful, I mean people in their thirties and
forties, as opposed to fifties, sixties, and seventies =96
generally more common at UFO conferences these days. Perhaps
because DC is a younger town than, say, Laughlin, Nevada or
Aztec, New Mexico. It was obvious, too, that many of these
attendees had highly professional backgrounds. The vast majority
of them were well educated, articulate, and seemed actually to
care about the public good.

Indeed, possibly the main distinguishing feature about this
particular conference, compared with other UFO-related
conferences, was that the phenomenon was not treated as an
intellectual, academic, problem. Everyone =96 Bassett, the
speakers he invited, and the attendees themselves =96 focused on
the UFO phenomenon as a matter of public policy.

"It=92s not about lights in the sky," said Bassett. "It=92s about
lies on the ground."

Regarding such a sentiment, I say it=92s about time.

A complete list of the speakers included: Stephen Bassett
(organizer and co-moderator), Dr. William Birnes, Grant Cameron,
Philip Corso, Jr., Paul Davids, Richard Dolan, Ann Druffel,
Stanton Friedman, Timothy Good, Dr. Steven Greer, William
Hamilton, Terry Hansen, Paola Harris, Richard C. Hoagland, Linda
Moulton Howe, Dr. C.B. Scott Jones, Cheryll Jones (co-
moderator), Jim Marrs, Dr. Bruce Maccabee, Nick Pope, Peter
Robbins, Dr. Michael Salla, Dr. Richard Sauder, Dr. Tom Van
Flandern, Dr. Robert Wood, Ryan Wood.

The discussions ranged from an analysis of government released
FOIA documents, the black budget, Presidential politics and
UFOs, media manipulation, evidence of underground bases,
international military sightings of UFOs, and, in the case of
Richard Hoagland, the probing of unusual evidence regarding the
surface of Mars.

I spoke to some congressional staffers who attended the
conference. They described to me significant levels of interest
in this topic by several members of Congress. Of course, any
members of Congress who admit to having a genuine interest in
this topic can kiss their career goodbye. Just another bit of
evidence of the cultural and political repression over the topic
of UFOs.

But although Congress had a minor toehold in the conference,
there was no sign of any major media. No ABC, no NBC, no CBS, no
Fox, no major newspapers. Alternative press, yes. International
media, yes, to a limited extent.

But the American Big Boys were entirely absent. And Bassett made
every effort to promote this conference to major media =96 "all
political media in Washington was contacted two, three, or four
times in advance," he said. One can only conclude that the major
networks and newspapers explicitly declined to cover the event.
A matter of policy.

The absence of major power players made this conference a
genuinely populist event. On the one side were serious-minded,
small-time operators, who genuinely believed in the promotion of
truth on the matter of UFOs. On the other side was big
government and big media, studiously avoiding any recognition of
those efforts.

Very much in line with everything else going on in the death
throes of the American Republic.

But, as I said earlier, hope remains. It=92s true that the X-
Conference failed to force any progress toward aligning official
truth with actual truth within our society. Still, there's no
question that its results were encouraging enough that we can
expect this to be an annual event. Nothing worth attaining can
be achieved without effort.

People are notoriously bad at predicting the results of their
actions. For that reason, I suspect that the effects of the X-
Conference may not be fully understood for several years.

Indeed, Bassett mentioned that in the aftermath of the
conference there have already been several meetings with members
of Congress on "some of the key topics" discussed at the
conference. Without currently mentioning any specifics, he plans
to make such information public at the earliest possible time.

Yes, I have a feeling that we will be hearing more from Steve
Bassett in the future.

--

For more information about the X-Conference, and information
about the forthcoming 2005 X-Conference, visit
http://www.paradigmclock.com.

Richard Dolan is Senior Editor for Phenomena Magazine, and is
author of UFOs and the National Security State, a history of the
relationship between the American military-intelligence
community and the UFO phenomenon. Visit his website at
http://keyholepublishing.com


[UFO UpDates thanks Norm for the lead --ebk]








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                  Rock with Embedded Manmade-Like Component

From: Walt Williams <walt_williams.nul>
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 08:10:39 -0700
Fwd Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 13:31:20 -0400
Subject: Rock with Embedded Manmade-Like Component


Fascinating pictures, appears to be a potatoe with a three pin
plug stuck in it?

Wonder what 'rock' is made of? I have seen some sulfa-plastics...

http://www.tsc-global.com/rockside1-400.jpg
http://www.tsc-global.com/rockoblique1-400.jpg
http://www.tsc-global.com/rockcomponent3.jpg
http://www.tsc-global.com/part2.jpg
http://www.tsc-global.com/partside3.jpg
http://www.tsc-global.com/parttop5.jpg
http://www.tsc-global.com/rocktop-400.jpg


http://www.lonestartek.net/weird.htm
http://www.tsc-global.com/rock2.htm

FYI.









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                           May's Sky And Telescope

From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul>
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 13:00:12 -0300
Fwd Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 13:33:19 -0400
Subject: May's Sky And Telescope


The May issue of Sky And Telescope magazine contains an
interesting article (p.39-43) "A Debunker's Guide to Cosmic
Nonsense" by astronomer Philip C. Plait. Plait has the website:

http://www.badastronomy.com

The article itself has a lot of nonsense in it and is the topic
of my next MUFON Journal column.

Funny thing is that I agree with Plait's comments about the
fallacies about our not going to the moon. He surely hasn't done
his homework about UFOs, which is par for the course for
astronomers. Someday I would really like to see a psychologist
do a study of  "Astronomers and UFOs: The Will not to believe".
Their arrogance and ignorance about the subject, about deep
space travel,etc are monumental, indeed. I would be happy to
help.Plait among other gems says about Amateur astronomers
"Logically, they should be reporting most of the UFOs". This is
logic?


Stan Friedman








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                            UFO Fever Grips Iran

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 13:43:19 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 13:43:19 -0400
Subject: UFO Fever Grips Iran




Source: MSNBC

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/4853871/C

April  28, 2004


UFO Fever Grips Iran
Flashes in night sky spark headlines,
but some attribute sightings to planet Venus

By Christian Oliver


TEHRAN, Iran - Is Iran about to be invaded by little green men,
or are the Americans racing through the night sky in spaceships
to spy on the Islamic Republic?

Flying saucer fever has gripped Iran after dozens of sightings
in the last few days. Fanciful cartoons of alien spacecraft have
adorned the front pages.

State television on Wednesday showed a sparkling white disc it
said was filmed over Tehran on Tuesday night.

More colorful unidentified flying objects have been spotted
beaming out green, red, blue and purple rays over the northern
cities of Tabriz and Ardebil and in the Caspian Sea province of
Golestan, the official IRNA news agency reported.

Newspapers and agencies reported people rushing out into the
streets in eight towns on Tuesday night to watch a bright
extraterrestrial light dipping in and out of the clouds.

An air force officer in the Revolutionary Guards was quoted in
the reformist Vagha-ye Etefaghiyeh daily as saying that Iran=92s
Supreme National Security Council should investigate whether
these visitors from afar had hostile intent.

But Sa=92dollah Nasiri-Qeydari, head of the Astronomical Society
of Iran, told Reuters that the stories were unfounded.

=93In my opinion, flying saucers do not exist,=94 he said, insisting
his telescopes would have picked up invaders from outer space.

=93The people who have seen these things are not experts =97
farmers, villagers and pilots,=94 he added.

He said what people reported was consistent with the planet
Venus, whose intense light in its current position would be
given different hues by being filtered through the atmosphere.


Copyright 2004 Reuters Limited. All rights reserved








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                       Basque Country UFO Over Atxondo

From: Scott Corrales <lornis1.nul>
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 14:03:19 -0400
Fwd Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 21:00:10 -0400
Subject: Basque Country UFO Over Atxondo


INEXPLICATA

The Journal of Hispanic Ufology

April 28, 2004

Source: SEIP (Spain)

Date: 04.28.04


Teenager Reports Seeing UFO Over Atxondo

***UFOs Return to the Duranguesado***

***A 14 year old boy reports seen a luminous artifact flying
over his community**

On Thursday, April 22 a mysterious object was reported in the
vicinity of the Biscayan town of Apatamonasterio at around 21:30
hours.

A 14 year old boy was returning home when he saw lights in the
sky that attracted his attention. He saw something in the far
distance that "didn't seem like an airplane and had different
lights, aside from moving at faster speed."  According to his
testimony, the alleged UFO  changed directions just to go right
back the way it had come, losing itself in the night toward
Durango.

[SEIP] received word of the incident a few minutes after it
occured, and we did not hestitate to spend nearly two hours
traveling around the town, stopping at various locations, in the
hopes of finding the object, but all of our efforts were in
vain. The photographic scan performed on the area did not yield
anything of interest, either.

A week later we ran into a woman, almost by sheer coincidence,
who told us of her own experience. It seems that on the very
same day of the event, and at the same time (21:30 hrs.) she
observed three small white lights that appeared "to be
stationary in the sky."

The woman is unsure if it was a single object with three lights,
or three small objects in formation.

Months ago we had already been told of certain events occurring
in areas of Bizkaia and Guipuzcoa pertaining to luminous spheres
and triangular obejcts, which reminds us of the UFO flaps
experienced in the Duranguesado in 1995 and 1997, and which
became known through the communications media, such as Radio
Euskadi, Euskadi Irratia, Enigmas magazine, Durango Irratia, the
Deia newspaper and other media specializing in the paranormal.

At this time we are engaged in learning of new sightings and are
attempting to locate new witnesses to the aforementioned events.

====================================================

Translation (c) 2004 Scott Corrales
Institute of Hispanic Ufology (IHU)
with special thanks to J. Manuel Duran, SEIP








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                     Re: May's Sky And Telescope - Shell

From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 13:26:33 -0500
Fwd Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 21:03:50 -0400
Subject: Re: May's Sky And Telescope - Shell


>From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 13:00:12 -0300
>Subject: May's Sky And Telescope

>Plait among other gems says about Amateur astronomers
>"Logically, they should be reporting most of the UFOs".
>This is logic?

Yeah, bad logic. While amateur astronomers do spend some time
outdoors looking at the night sky, they're generally only
concerned with an area of the sky the size of a pinhead.

Actually, I always thought that Forest Rangers who live in those
high, isolated lookout towers in the mountains would probably
see more UFOs than anybody else. Once while my wife and I were
taking a daytime tour of a lookout tower, we were chatting with
the Ranger happily until the subject turned to UFOs. At that
point the young man clammed up tight. Obviously a sore spot. Of
course, that might be his usual reaction when discovering the
person he's talking to you was a "kook." That was not this
kook's impression, however.








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                           Filers Files #19 - 2004

From: George A. Filer <Majorstar.nul>
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 16:16:43 EDT
Fwd Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 21:15:57 -0400
Subject: Filers Files #19 - 2004


Filers Files #19 - 2004 Skywatch Investigations
George A. Filer, Director MUFON Eastern
April 28, 2004, Webmaster: Chuck Warren --


If photos don't show up in email, try
www.georgefiler.com/ "Weekly files" Views


UFOs Watch ISS Space Walk

Jeff Chandler writes that he was closely following the ISS Space
Walk on February 25, 2004, when the astronauts made the
following comments. Cosmonaut Alexander =E2=80=98Sasha' Kaleri (Crew
Flight Engineer) states, "So, dinosaurs are needed here. You
can't do-can't do anything without them." Korelyev - Say it
again? Kaleri - I say when the dinosaur is here. Yes! I have
them here! (Pause for several seconds) Uh-these are with me now!
Korelyev - Yes. Let them be with you. Understood. (Several
Minutes Later) Foale - (garbled)- Sasha is attaching the
dinosaurs now.

Jeff comments, "What is going on here? What are 'Dinosaurs' in
the context of this long planned space walk (EVA) from the PIRS
airlock module of ISS?" I have done an extensive search of both
the NASA, and Russian, web resources concerning the space
station, and specifically this EVA. There is no mention of
anything resembling this term. The NASA ISS acronyms list turns
up nothing, as did a similar search on the Russian side.
Historically, the term doesn't exist. In seven years of
listening to Cosmonaut and Astronaut chatter during EVAs from
Mir, and ISS, I've never ever heard this term before. I have
never heard this term used on any Shuttle flight in over 20
years of observation. I never heard the term during the Mercury,
Gemini, Apollo, or Sky Lab programs for that matter. In well
over 40 years of watching and listening to the space programs of
the United States and Russia, I've NEVER EVER heard the term
"Dinosaurs" used in ANY context. When Cosmonaut Kaleri made his
remarks on 25 February, my ears pricked up. Several minutes
later, ISS Commander Astronaut Michael Foale made a remark which
seemed to indicate that "Dinosaurs" were some sort of common
part which Cosmonaut Kaleri was installing on the exterior of
the station. But what part, and what sort?  =D8=F8  What makes
Commander Foale's statement that Sasha was installing the
"Dinosaurs" fall flat was the fact that the Cosmonaut's
conversation about these "Dinosaurs" with the Russian Mission
Control Center in Korelyev indicated complete surprise on his
part. The two crewmen of ISS Expedition 8 had been preparing,
and training, for this EVA event literally for YEARS. NO aspect
of the mission to be performed, no piece of equipment, no part
to be installed should come as any surprise.

Yet, in his own words, to Cosmonaut Kaleri these "Dinosaurs"
came as a great AND unwelcome, surprise. Why? As stated earlier
in this examination, all aspects of the EVA should have been
extremely familiar. Yet, Kaleri expresses surprise and dismay
that "Dinosaurs" should be present. Mission control advises him
to accept them, and Commander Foale seems to feel obligated to
make up some cover story. High strangeness indeed, especially
when one takes into account that there were a number of
mysterious objects flitting about during much of the space walk.
In addition, space suit to ground communications were
interrupted for extensive periods by a terrible screeching
racket. My observation is that this interference with
communications between the space walkers and the ground seemed
to manifest itself during times when the mystery objects were
present. Another unusual occurrence was that at one point in the
middle of all these strange happenings, Houston Mission Control
announced that the ISS was "Out of Range" of the space
communication network. This announcement made when ISS was
flying DIRECTLY above the Hawaiian ground station, part of that
worldwide network. Houston also indicated that the ISS was "Out
of Range" of the TDRS satellite stationed in geosynchronous
orbit high above. Neither of these facilities was actually out
of range, being in =D8=F8 "line of sight" at

Hawaiian ground station when NASA announced it was "Out of
Range"  In closing, it appears to me that the unknown, and
unaccounted for, objects seen during the live TV coverage of the
space walk were probably associated with the communication
losses. It appears very possible that when the ISS was "Out of
Range" from the usual communication facilities both on the
ground in Hawaii, and high above in the form of a satellite,
this opportunity was taken to speak with the station crew about
what they'd seen whilst keeping the public "In The Dark". I also
strongly suspect that "Dinosaurs" was a code word Sasha Kaleri
used in reference to UFOs. Taken in that context, the word
actually makes sense. Thanks to Jeff Challender - Director
Project P.R.O.V.E. =C2=A9 2004 Jeff Challender


Mars - More Strange Glyphs

JPL has stopped sending raw images from Mars for about a week.
They must have found something very interesting. This JPL image
is from the edge of the Bonneville Crater. My granddaughter see
a face on the right and a K on the rock.


Pennsylvania - Five Hundred Lights

SLIPPERY ROCK -- On April 17, 2004, witnesses report seeing 500
orangeish small lights flying mostly in a "V" formation flying
over for at least 3 hours. The witness states, "I was sitting on
my back porch when the first ones flew over. They were in a "V"
formation and there were about 15 of them. They looked like
geese in formation but were orangeish in color. I tried to
dismiss them as birds, but could see them for several miles.
Then a few minutes later another 20 or so went overhead. I was
talking on the phone with my sister in Washington (state) and
told her what was going on then I went and got my wife out of
bed. Just as we got back outside another group of 10 went
overhead. She was skeptical until another group of 50 or so went
directly over us. They were traveling south to northwest. I then
talked to my brother-in-law in New Castle and he saw them also.
I don't know what they were but they were going faster than
anything I've ever seen in the sky. I really hope some one else
saw them. In all I saw at least 500 or more and was up until
03:30 watching them. Also there was no sound. Thanks to Peter
Davenport NUFORC


Indiania - Two Large Disks

MOORSEVILLE -- Peter Davenport called to infrom me he is having
computer troubles similar to my own. He told me that two disk
shaped UFOs were reported over Indiania. The witness was
traveling south on state highway 67 south,,just north of
moorsville,when a silver disk about 10-12 feet in dia.at about
300 feet passed over my RAV4 on April 3, 2004 at 7:30 PM. It was
moving from west to east at about (est 100mph)at around a 3-5
degree upward angle.It only looked to be about 3-4 feet thick,no
lights,no wings,no sound,and no smoke. it was a disc or saucer
shaped object with rows of lights

LOGANSPORT -- On April 8, 2004, the witnesses report, "My
husband and I along with my oldest daughter was leaving my in-
laws, when I noticed lights above a neighbor's trees around
their house. There was a black and grey disc or saucer shaped
object with rows of lights for about 5 or 6 seconds then the
lights shut off like someone flipped a switch and the object
disappeared. My 12 year-old daughter saw the same thing and my
husband only saw a glare of lights on the truck and ground. He
could not see it due to the position of the object. Thanks to
Peter Davenport Director NUFORC


Georgia - Flying Triangle

CALHOUN - On April 5, 2004, at about 10:30 PM, a 30 year old
male reported that he was outside with his astronomy telescope
and had a strange tingling sensation and then looked up and
observed a large triangular shaped object just above the tree
tops. His first impression was a helicopter, but he heard no
sound. This craft was moving slowly towards Calhoun proper,
projecting a bright blue searchlight-like beam. It continued on,
south to north, until it went over to the other side of an
adjacent mountain and vanished from sight.

WOODSTOCK - March 27, 2004, a 48 year old male resident of
Georgia reports that he had carried his vehicle to a repair shop
in town near his home at 4:25 PM, and noticed what appeared to
be a dull grey-silver metallic sphere hovering just above the
scattered cumulus clouds to the north. He continued to watch,
stating it was difficult to judge true size and distance, but it
may have drifted slightly. This object was then covered by a
cloud. Witness continued to look, and within about 5-10 minutes
noticed an identical object, but possibly the original, a little
east of the first location. An occasional cloud also covered
this second observation off and on. Three or four jet aircraft
at much higher allotted passed the area during the 30 minutes of
observation. Witness indicated in his WUFOD account that the
size appeared to be about like an aspirin AAL. Also that his
only conventional comparison would be to that of a balloon, but
UNLIKE balloons he had seen, these spheres seemed to have little
or no drift. This Woodstock resident said that he would provide
additional information if contacted by our personnel. This
witness is in the immediate vicinity of our Mar=D8=F8 k Kravitz of
Marietta and shortly, Mark will be given this case information.

MANCHESTER - April 16, 2004, at 10:20 PM, a female 47 year old,
along with her 16 year old daughter, reported they were driving
home from Columbus when they thought they saw a helicopter from
nearby Ft. Benning. Upon getting closer, she felt it resembled a
Stealth Bomber, with a triangle-like shape. Their closer
observation found the witnesses slowing and letting down the
vehicle windows which revealed NO sound. Near Ellerslie in
Harris County the witnesses then observed the craft to be a dark
triangle hovering at relatively low altitude.  The triangle was
blinking red and green lights at the rear, plus projecting a
spotlight-like beam, with an adjacent blue light under each
"wing." The daughter became a little concerned, stating they
needed to get out of there, continue on home and tell her Dad.
The Primary Witness stated that she had observed similar
triangular craft before, along with her older daughter, but had
never reported it.

MUFONGA's Dan Worsham of Columbus has agreed to further
investigate this incident. These are preliminary reports are in
nature. Thanks to Tom Sheets, SD MUFONGA


Weather Channel Shows Disk

OUT WEST -- Kim Shaffer writes, "On Tuesday, April 20th, I was
glancing at the weather Channel when I saw the end of a video
clip of a tanker aircraft dumping retardant on a fire out west
somewhere." As the clip was ending, the cameraman panned left
and upward to show a large dark disc shaped object in the sky.
The clip ended almost immediately and I have tried several
attempts to contact TWC to find out the when, what, and where of
the video, but they will not return an e-mail to me. Perhaps, I
do not have the "credentials" to get a response. Do you think
this is a job for you? Do you know anyone with clout enough to
get an answer from these clowns? The video was certainly very
interesting and no response indicated they wish no involvement
in the subject of ufology. Thanks to Kim Shaffer ASD/MUFON TN.
shaffer56.nul

California --Oval Objects

MEADOW, BETWEEN ELLSINORE & PARIS -- On April 23, 2004, a lady
called me from Meadow, California and said she watched what
looked like a cone shaped object moving from side to side flying
across the sky at 8 PM. The witness was backing into her carport
when she spotted the object and started yelling at her daughter
who was with her to look towards the mountains. Her daughter
missed seeing it. She said the back of the object looked like it
was flared out. As she observed the object move across the sky
it would fade in and out. Also, she noticed when started to fade
she saw a red puff come off it. I asked what she meant by a "red
puff." She really found it hard to explain and said it was a red
something, like a burst of red. Every time the object gave off
the puff of red the object itself became more visible, or a
bright white in color.  There was no contrail left by the
object. It was flying from the north heading to the south in a
straight line. I asked if she was able to give me a rough idea
as to the size of the craft. The witness said it had to be
longer than the length of her arm. The lady said it was
traveling at a very low altitude, between the mountains and her
residence, but extremely low. She also said there is a small
airport close to where she resides. I wondered if a plane was
coming into to land or one might have been taking off. But from
the sounds of what the lady saw it doesn't seem to resemble an
aircraft I am aware of, but of course hard to say. There was no
sound heard, but another interesting point she made was that her
pets (dogs) and the neighbors dogs were acting up all night
long. (only this one night when the sighting took place) The
lady said this is certainly out of the norm for them to carry on
like this and she thought this was unusual.  It was interesting
to note that on the =D8=F8 weekend the local Air Force Base there
was an aircraft fair taking place she told me and this was after
her sighting.

VICTORVILLE -- Brian Vike phoned this witness who stated, "All
that the objects made a 90 degree turn to the north, and the
objects would move around one another as they traveled along.
Two witnesses were in the High Desert on April 23, 2004, at
10:15 a.m., and spotted 4-6 dots with long trails. The witness
was traveling northbound on the 15 freeway, and his wife noticed
multiple objects in the clear blue sky with contrails moving
slowly from the west to the east due north of our position. I
explained to her the I thought it was a meteor that was breaking
up in the atmosphere as it burned up. The contrails were long
and flowing, but they dissipated awfully fast to be smoke and
debris from a meteor. They faded more like mist and they
continued moving slowly and randomly intertwining between each
other as they fell. I thought it would be cool to get pictures.
As I pulled over and got out, I noticed that all of them turned
due north together and appeared to be falling at the same rate
of speed, just away from us. I took three pictures and the
objects faded into the distance. I was okay with the meteor idea
right up until they all turned to the north. My wife thought
that since there were gusty winds at the time that the wind had
blown the falling debris to the north, but I explained to her
that if it had been debris burning up from space, that the
pieces were probably traveling at hundreds or thousands of miles
per hour and the 40 mph gusts wouldn't affect them. Not
withstanding, the fact that they were probably so high up in the
atmosphere that the weather down here wouldn't even affect it or
be close to the same for that matter. Thanks to Brian Vike,
Director HBCC UFO Research

Canada - Sightings Increase

VANCOUVER, BC. -- On April 24, 2004, at 9 PM, the witness
observed a white light moving in an easterly direction across
Indian Arm from Seymour Mountain flying at about 2,500 feet. It
was traveling faster than most small planes and he watched the
white light blinked out. A few seconds later there was a single
red strobe flash and then the white light reappeared going back
the way it came just as fast. There is no way a small plane
could have reversed directions that fast. The witness states, "I
grabbed my new Video camera and in the few seconds it took to
warm up the light blinked out again, but there was still a
little light in the sky but I could see nothing in the area." I
checked with my binoculars but found nothing.

On April 14, at 10 PM, the witness observed what appeared to be
a fairly large meteorite heading in a northerly direction. As I
watched it suddenly shrank in size and within seconds just
appeared to be a satellite still heading in the same direction.
Very similar to that object I saw back in the summer of 2002.

In the beginning of April 2004, the sky was overcast with low
thick clouds at 1000 feet and about 5 PM. I noticed, two dull
yellow disk shaped objects, flying one behind the other in a SSE
directions. These glowing disks appeared to be either in the
clouds or just over them. I would estimate they were over 108
and King George and from that distance appeared to be about the
size of the full moon. Their speed was 3 to 4 hundred miles an
hour. Time of sighting about five to ten seconds.

My new camera has night vision and can see better than I can in
the dark. The other night I saw that strange light which appears
to flash white, blue and red. I aimed the camera at it and
started zooming in and it must be in near orbit as the image
filled my view finder even before it got to full digital zoom.
(900X) Normal stars still look like stars slightly magnified.
Anyway I did not see the blue and red lights which I've seen
through my binoculars but did see reddish looking protrudences
on the sides. Reminded me of Mickey Mouse. The white object
appeared to be rotating quite fast but that may just have been
an effect caused by the atmosphere. Just for the heck of it I
left the camera running while pointed up at the sky, to my
surprise I saw what appeared to be two very faint satellites
pass through the rather narrow field of view within about five
minutes. I also noticed several dark shadowy objects passing in
front of the stars in the view finder. I tried looking at the
same ar=D8=F8 ea through my binoculars but could only just barely
make out the stars. Thanks to Brian Vike, Director

Kelowna, B.C. - A glowing flying triangle was spotted on April
26, 2004, at 9:45 p.m., by a husband and wife who were outside
smoking, The triangle was visible for 20 to 30 seconds before it
left the couples line of sight. It was glowing white in color,
no lights were seen on the craft. The man guessed the object was
flying at 20,000 feet. They explained that it was extremely
bright, but went on to say you couldn't miss it either.  There
was no aura or glowing light surrounding it, there was no trail
or tail following behind. The witness said he saw no aircraft
before or during the sighting, but said right after the object
passed by a helicopter was seen flying at a low level shinning
it's spotlight down towards the ground.  The craft flew in a
straight line towards the northeast over Okanagan Lake. At arm's
length the witness guessed the object would have been 1 to 2
centimeters in length looking from his location. No sound was
heard. The man said the craft was solid in color and not just
points of light in a triangular shape.  The witness also said he
tried to contact the Kelowna, B.C. airport tower but they were
closed.  Brian Vike, Director HBCC UFO Research Home

NORTH BURNABY, B.C. -- I'm wondering about an experience I had.
It was sometime in 1992, when I was a taxi driver in the greater
Vancouver BC area. I was just pulling up to an apartment
building to drop off my fare and glanced to my left and noticed
high in the sky, a shimmering gold colored object. It was
several miles high and moving at a tremendous speed. My first
thought was that it was one of the space shuttles that I had
read about in the paper that would be visible on its decent to
its landing place in California or Texas, I can't remember
which. I got on my radio and advised the other drivers they
should look up in the location in the sky for a look. Only one
driver came back and said they couldn't see anything. Nothing
more was said. It didn't occur to me until I read a UFO report
on another site that described a similar sighting that maybe it
wasn't the space shuttle after all. I am wondering if you know
of the space shuttle flight to which I refer and if there were
any sightings of it back then. Thank you to the witness for the
report.

SMITHERS, BC -- Brian Vike writes, "A lady called from Smithers,
to ask if anyone had reported seeing an unusual object hovering
and moving slowly over the Ski Hill Road on April 8, 2004, at
11:20 PM. Because the object the witness saw was so very strange
she emailed the Smithers Interior News with her report but there
was no reply. She eventually talked with the editor and the
paper is going to run a short piece.

What the lady observed from her home was a bright pink spherical
shaped object and surrounding the object was a dark blue aura.
The object sat low, hovering over the Smithers Ski Hill Road
until it just disappeared at an extreme rate of speed. Before
the lady lost sight of it, it was moving very slowly from it's
hovering position. She said there was not a sound coming from
the object. The woman said she usually heads to bed earlier but
she wasn't able to sleep and had been watching a program on TV
when she decided to go outside to take a pet cookie to her dog .
She turned around to go back into her home and saw the strange
object. She told me that it was not a plane as they are use to
seeing them flying over top of the area all the time due to the
Smithers airport being close by. The object was below the rim of
the mountains. Thanks to Brian Vike, Director


UK - Cigar Images

NORTH NOTTINGHAM -- Anthony James writes, " I've just come back
from walking the dog. I sometimes take my mini-disc player or
digital camera with me, today I took my camera and took 19
photo's of this cigar shaped object flying from south to north
at a leisurely pace over the U.K. There was no noise, and I
managed to take a couple of photo's with foreground for good
measure. This shows how high it was, just below cloud cover. I
used an Olympus C-700 digital camera with a 10X zoom lens. I was
on Hempshill Vale estate when I first noticed it and started
taking photo's. By the time it disappeared into the clouds about
20 minutes later, I was just over the boarder in a field in
Nuthall, Nottingham, this location is within a 8 minute walk
from our house. I would say the object was about 50 feet long,
based on the view that a Boeing 737 is about 100 feet long and
they fly over here every day. The last photo shows the UFO with
a small plane from Hucknall airfield and the UFO way high above
and beyond. Please feel free to use these pictures as you wish.
I've trimmed each picture, the 1st one is zoomed right in with
the digital zoom =3D to about a 100mm lens, the other zoomed out
at about 100mm. "Looking at the last few pictures, I think it
could well be some huge balloon." Thanks to Anthony James
 carthny.nul

Scotland - UFOs

MOTHERWELL -- The witness was about 18 years old coming home
from the River Clyde in 1979 July or August) when his Dad
stopped to speak to an old friend.  He states, "I was looking
towards the town of Hamilton when I saw the first object
emerging from behind the hills nine miles away to the west.
Within a few seconds the first object was totally visible, then
the smaller object rose up from behind the hill and was soon
totally visible also. The objects were both orange in color and
seemed to shimmer with long flowing tendrils. The second object
was about half the size of the first. The evening was warm and
overcast. They were fairly large. My Dad and his old pal were
deep in conversation. When I told them to look at the fireballs
floating up through the clouds they didn't seem to be able to
see them. My Dad continued to talk as if nothing had happened.
The objects merged together before floating up into the dark
clouds. I know that this was no hallucination. The whole thing
from start to finish took about 2 minutes at the most. I am now
45 years old and this scene has been in my mind since the night
I saw it. The image can been found at:
http://www.hbccufo.com/index.php Brian Vike, Director HBCC UFO
Research


Iran -UFOs over the Cities

TEHRAN -- Thousands of people saw flying lights and objects for
several days and several times in the sky of many cities of Iran
on April 12,13,14, 2004, according to a journalist of Irna News.
A light in the sky flew slow with different colors over the city
Gonbade Kavoos on April 13, at night. UFO Sighting was seen over
Meshkin Shahr the next morning. On April 14 at 9 PM, an oval UFO
was sighted for 90 minutes over the small city Bileh Savar. It
started to fly straight and became four flying lights. Later at
8:30 many people saw a UFO with two small wings and beams of
light in different colors flying over the city Tabriz. On April
17, at 8:30 PM, people saw a light over Azad Shahr in North Iran
for 60 minutes with changing color. On April 18, at 11 PM,
people sighted an oval UFO fly over Poldokhtar in west Iran for
thirty minutes. On April 21, several people saw a strong pink
light fly slowly over the city Gorgan. 21 of April in the night
people of three cities Saris (north Iran), Ardabil (north west),
Gonbade Kavoos(north east), sighting strong lights flying in the
sky. Many Official Newspapers write about these UFOs sightings
on these days. Official Iranian TV 1 shows a short Handy cam
video film of one of these UFO (light) sightings. Thanks to
Brian Vike


New Zealand - Disk Photographed

Wayne Brasch writes, "Recently my wife and I purchased a Fuji
602Z, 6 mega pixel digital camera c/w a 55mm Marumi polarizing
filter (early Xmas present to each other) and began
photographing persistent trails in our local airspace. It is at
this time things started to get a strange.

On 18 Jan 2004 my wife took a few images of a persistent trail
whilst I was out. When we later downloaded the images I noticed
artefacts in two of the images. Thinking they were distant birds
I enlarged them. One was an orb shaped object and the other
elongated.

Then on 25 Jan 2004 I photographed another fresh chemtrail.
Again my images contained strange anomalies which I can not
explain. Thanks to Wayne Brasch


Noah's Ark Found? Company Claims Commercial Satellite Has
Picture Proof

Satellite photos of Mount Ararat, Turkey taken by commercial
imaging satellite company Digital Globe released today are said
to contain proof of the existence of the biblical Noah's Ark.
The images, revealed at a press conference at the National Press
Club in Washington, D.C. are said to reveal a man-made structure
at the site where the Bible states the vessel came to rest. The
claim was made by Daniel P. McGivern, president of Shamrock --
 The Trinity Corporation, who according to a press release has
been searching for the Ark for several years. The first pictures
of the site were taken by the U.S. Air Force in 1949. The images
allegedly revealed what seemed to be a structure covered by ice,
but were held in a confidential file labeled "Ararat Anomaly"
for years. In 1997, the government released several of these
images, but experts deemed them inconclusive. McGovern's is not
the first satellite search for the Ark. In 2002, Porcher Taylor,
a senior associate (nonresident) at the prominent think tank,
the Center for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS) in
Washington, D.C., also requested satellite imagery of the area
to see if the mythical vessel truly existed.

The summer of 2003 provided a great opportunity to take a new
series of photographs, according to the release, because it was
the hottest summer in Europe since 1500. This caused a massive
meltdown on Mount Ararat. McGivern used DigitalGlobe's Quick
Bird satellite to collect a new set of satellite images.
According to the press release, McGivern has put together a team
of scientists, archaeologists and forensic experts to excavate
the object and collect samples beginning in August of this year.

"These new photos unequivocally show a man made object,"
McGivern is quoted as saying. "I am convinced that the
excavation of the object and the results of tests run on any
collected samples will prove that it is Noah's Ark." The field
manager for the excavation will be Dr. Ahmet Ali Arslan, a
native of Turkey who has traveled up Mount Ararat 50 times in 40
years and formerly worked in the Turkey Prime Minister's office.
According to the release, Arslan plans to discuss the details of
the excavation with the Prime Minister next week. According to
the press release, McGivern has put together a team of
scientists, archaeologists and forensic experts to excavate the
object and collect samples beginning in August of this year.
"These new photos unequivocally show a man made object,"
McGivern is quoted as saying. "I am convinced that the
excavation of the object and the results of tests run on any
collected samples will prove that it is Noah's Ark." The field
manager for the excavation will be Dr. Ahmet Ali Arslan, a
native of Turkey who has traveled up Mount Ararat 50 times in 40
years and formerly worked in the Turkey Prime Minister's office.
Excavation will begin later this year.


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   Apr > Apr 28

                Re: National Post Article On Majic - Kimball

From: Paul Kimball <Kimballwood.nul>
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 17:50:19 EDT
Fwd Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 21:20:34 -0400
Subject: Re: National Post Article On Majic - Kimball


>From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 11:42:58 -0300
>Subject: National Post Article On Majic


>Listers may be interested in the article on page B3 of today's
>National Post (Toronto) about tonight's showing on SPACE: The
>Imagination TV Channel at 9PM EDT (10PM ADT) of the new
>documentary Do You Believe In Majic?, produced and directed by
>Paul Kimball. The article (without the picture) is on the web
>at:

>http://www.canada.com/national/nationalpost/news/artslife/story.html?id=7782815
f->da46-497d-8e24-f72b7913caaa.

Normally, I ignore reviews - they are, after all, just one
person's opinion. The interesting thing to me is that Chow
ultimately describes the film as "visually boring" because there
are "too many talking heads" which no filmmaker ever, ever wants
to hear. It does, however, bring me back to a point that I and
others have debated here before, namely how the UFO phenomenon
is perceived by the media, and the fact vs. entertainment puzzle
when dealing with the phenomenon.

Of course, I don't feel the film is visually boring at all. Then
again, I have a vested interest in saying so! When making it,
however, I did bear in mind those past conversations on this
list, and the comments of those who longed for a serious
examination of the UFO phenomenon in a documentary. As a result,
I made a film that delves into (what many would find) the arcane
details of MJ-12 documentary evidence, and expert opinion about
those documents - as a result, a lot of photos, documents and
talking heads. However, I've never bought into the dictum that
talking heads are bad, as long as what they are saying is
compelling. I treated the subject seriously, with respect. I
purposefully avoided the use of fancy digital images, or little
green aliens, or backgrounds which take the focus off the
speakers/interviewees, or any of that stuff which so often wends
it's way into these type of films. It was designed to appeal to
a core audience - those who take the UFO phenomenon seriously -
 for which I have developed a great deal of respect.
Accordingly, I hope those of you who see it enjoy it, even if
you disagree with the film's conclusions.

At the end of the day, the only person you can really hope to
please is yourself. I like the film, so there it is. And - added
to coverage of the film in TV Guide (Canada) - it amounts to
pretty good national PR up here (the Post being one of Canada's
two national newspapers) for a film about a subject that usually
doesn't register on the media radar.

Besides, as my dad always says, as long as they spell your name
right, don't complain!


Best regards,

Paul Kimball
Redstar Films








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   Apr > Apr 29

               Re: Government Secrecy Exposed With 14 Million+

From: Bruce Maccabee <brumac.nul>
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 22:06:12 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 03:36:40 -0400
Subject: Re: Government Secrecy Exposed With 14 Million+


>From: John Greenewald, Jr. <tbvfuture.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 23:59:06 -0700 (Pacific Standard Time)
>Subject: Government Secrecy Exposed With 14 Million+ Hits In April


>FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

>Government Secrecy Exposed At Record Rate of 14 Million+ Hits in
>April

>NORTHRIDGE (BlackVault) - April 28, 2004 - Government Secrecy
>has taken a great leap at being exposed with record breaking
>numbers in the month of April. The Black Vault, a website
>devoted to exposing many levels of government secrecy, has hit
>record traffic not seen in the existence of The Black Vault.

>Located at:

>http://www.blackvault.com/

>The Black Vault will reach an estimated 14,315,773 hits for the
>month of April. This is up from just under 10,000,000 hits in
>March. The site will also reach a level of around 100 gigabytes
>of data being downloaded this month as well, a level never
>before reached by The Black Vault.


Sock it to 'em, John!

(I'm approaching 100,000 hits...   in 4 years!)








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   Apr > Apr 29

                  Re: May's Sky And Telescope - Scheldroup

From: John Scheldroup <jschel.nul>
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 21:12:13 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 03:39:16 -0400
Subject: Re: May's Sky And Telescope - Scheldroup


>From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 13:00:12 -0300
>Subject: May's Sky And Telescope

>about deep space travel, etc. are monumental, indeed.

Only to the minds-eye or like a stretched rubber band is to
distance.


Take care,

John








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                 Re: Evidence Of Patagonian Impact Crater? -

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 22:59:14 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 03:41:18 -0400
Subject: Re: Evidence Of Patagonian Impact Crater? -


>From: Scott Corrales <lornis1.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 10:48:02 -0400
>Subject: Evidence Of Patagonian Impact Crater?

>INEXPLICATA
>The Journal of Hispanic Ufology
>April 27, 2004

>Source: Fundacion Delphos (Argentina)
>Date: April 27, 2004
>An Asteroid Fell In Patagonia

<snip>


If anyone has a link to photographic images of the crater, I
would appreciate receiving it.


Thanks,

Ray Stanford

"You know my method. It is founded upon the observance of
trifles." -- Sherlock Holmes in The Boscombe Valley Mystery








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                    Re: May's Sky And Telescope - Colvin

From: Terry W. Colvin <fortean1.nul>
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 22:58:39 -0700
Fwd Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 03:46:15 -0400
Subject: Re: May's Sky And Telescope - Colvin


>From: Tim Shell <tshell.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 13:26:33 -0500
>Subject: Re: May's Sky And Telescope

>>From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 13:00:12 -0300
>>Subject: May's Sky And Telescope

>>Plait among other gems says about Amateur astronomers
>>"Logically, they should be reporting most of the UFOs".
>>This is logic?

>Yeah, bad logic. While amateur astronomers do spend some time
>outdoors looking at the night sky, they're generally only
>concerned with an area of the sky the size of a pinhead.

>Actually, I always thought that Forest Rangers who live in those
>high, isolated lookout towers in the mountains would probably
>see more UFOs than anybody else. Once while my wife and I were
>taking a daytime tour of a lookout tower, we were chatting with
>the Ranger happily until the subject turned to UFOs. At that
>point the young man clammed up tight. Obviously a sore spot. Of
>course, that might be his usual reaction when discovering the
>person he's talking to you was a "kook." That was not this
>kook's impression, however.

Several years ago on Greg Long's Northwest Mysteries site he
described the common sighting of UFOs, balls of light, glows,
etc. by Forest Rangers in California, Oregon, and Washington.
This makes sense since few of us look at the night sky more
than a few minutes each night and those of us living in cities
see little at all.


Terry


-- "Only a zit on the wart on the heinie of progress." Copyright
1992, Frank Rice


Terry W. Colvin, Sierra Vista, Arizona (USA)
fortean1.nul







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             New Digests Posted At The Magonia Exchange Website

From: Rod Brock <humble98225.nul>
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 01:11:57 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 08:51:28 -0400
Subject: New Digests Posted At The Magonia Exchange Website


Friends and colleagues,

Having recently reviewed the holdings of the Return to Magonia
Project, with my associate, Chris Aubeck, I have learned that we
are in possession of over 3000 historical accounts of anomalous
aerial phenomena predating the year 1947. My estimate of
between 1000-2000 accounts, stated in a previous message to this
and other e-Lists, was too low - I had neglected to account for
private, off-list contributions of historical materials to the
Project, which were substantial.

In an effort to interest experienced researchers in becoming
contributing members to the List, we recently posted a sample of
List-Digests from the past year at our public website, to
demonstrate the kinds of material being shared on the List. It
is important that prospective members understand that our policy
of requiring that each member contribute one (originally two)
original, historical account per week is one of the reasons why
we have been able to gather such a great deal of material in
just a little over one year. The other reason for our success is
the hard work and dedication of some of our members, who have
consistently posted more than the weekly requirement.

We would like to continue to share new material with non- List
members. This is to continue our attempts to interest
researchers in becoming members, as well as simply advancing the
understanding, among interested individuals, that the "UFO"
phenomenon did not in any sense 'begin' in 1947, but ultimately
dates back to antiquity - a proposition which has been given a
great deal of lip-service in the last several decades, but which
has never, until now, been demonstrated by a survey of pre-1947
literature of this depth and scope.

Accordingly, the digests formerly posted have now been replaced
with new digests, never seen before. Henceforth it will be our
practice to periodically refresh our sample archive page with
new material. We will also periodically post, to our website and
on this List, accounts in our holdings which we feel will
attract a wide range of interest.

You may access the site at:

http://embark.to/magonia

Click "Sample Archives" on the main menu.

If you experience problems with the above URL, the following URL

will work, as well:

http://nocturnal_lights.tripod.com/magoniax/


Cordially,

Rod Brock
Chris Aubeck


=====
THE MAGONIA EXCHANGE LIST
Collecting and sharing accounts
of anomalous aerial phenomena
from antiquity up to 1947.
http://embark.to/magonia
----------








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               Re: Rock With Embedded Manmade-Like Component -

From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 01:12:35 -0700
Fwd Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 09:00:11 -0400
Subject: Re: Rock With Embedded Manmade-Like Component -


>From: Walt Williams <walt_williams.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 08:10:39 -0700
>Subject: Rock with Embedded Manmade-Like Component

>Fascinating pictures, appears to be a potatoe with a three pin plug stuck in it
?

>Wonder what 'rock' is made of? I have seen some sulfa-plastics...

>http://www.tsc-global.com/rockside1-400.jpg
>http://www.tsc-global.com/rockoblique1-400.jpg
>http://www.tsc-global.com/rockcomponent3.jpg
>http://www.tsc-global.com/part2.jpg
>http://www.tsc-global.com/partside3.jpg
>http://www.tsc-global.com/parttop5.jpg
>http://www.tsc-global.com/rocktop-400.jpg

>http://www.lonestartek.net/weird.htm
>http://www.tsc-global.com/rock2.htm

>FYI.


Hello Walt:

All I see are the jpg images. Is there some accompanying text
for explanation?

I see what looks like a 3 prong electrical connector, round pins
like some appliances had so they could mate with different type
electrical cords. Since there are 3 prongs, I assume one of them
(usually the center one) is a ground connection for safety
purposes.

Otherwise, I would guess we have:

a) An electric rock for people who them.
b) A self cooking potato.
c) Some kid having fun.


Best wishes

- Larry








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                    New Maps - Missing Time & Abductions

From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 01:25:44 -0700
Fwd Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 09:03:57 -0400
Subject: New Maps - Missing Time & Abductions


Hello all:


This is to announce yet more maps on my website:

http://www.larryhatch.net

and not without some trepidation.

*U* was never meant to be an Abduction database, but ABD cases
(and closely correlated reports of missing time) are unavoidable
when digging thru the literature. Here are some case counts from
my database as it stands now:

             MST ABD
N. America   188 185
S. America    57  92
Europe       111  77
Elsewhere    55   62

There is great overlap. In the following three maps, I plot MST
cases first (in blue) then ABD cases in violet. In many or most
cases, the violet overwrites the blue as both phenomena were
indicated in the reports. Here are the maps:

N.America http://www.larryhatch.net/MSTABDNA.html
S.America http://www.larryhatch.net/MSTABDSA.html
Europe   http://www.larryhatch.net/MSTABDEU.html

Obviously this is only a representative sampling, cases with
some UFO connection that didn't sound especially bogus. I take
no special stand on abduction. Frankly I don't know what to make
of ABDs, and just hope the maps might useful.


Best wishes

- Larry Hatch








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                    Re: UFO Fever Grips Iran - Dickenson

From: Ray Dickenson <editor.nul>
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 10:21:55 +0100
Fwd Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 09:23:27 -0400
Subject: Re: UFO Fever Grips Iran - Dickenson


>From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 13:43:19 -0400
>Subject: UFO Fever Grips Iran

>Source: MSNBC
>http://msnbc.msn.com/id/4853871/C
>April  28, 2004

Hello List,

Anyone remember Bob Pratt's excellent report of earlier extended
visit of strangers to Iran?

That time, why did no-one try blaming planet Venus for
reportedly chasing military aircraft and immobilizing their
weapons?

http://www.bobpratt.org/classic.html


Cheers

Ray D

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Perceptions" http://www.perceptions.couk.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~







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                         UFO Sighting In Ucu Yucatan

From: Scott Corrales <lornis1.nul>
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 08:23:02 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 09:27:49 -0400
Subject: UFO Sighting In Ucu Yucatan


INEXPLICATA
The Journal of Hispanic Ufology
April 29, 2004

Source: Centro de Analisis de Fenomenos Espaciales (CAFE)
Date: April 3, 2004

On Saturday, April 3, 2004 the Centro de Analisis de Fenomenos
Espaciales conducted a UFO investigation in the town of Ucu,
Yucatan, where several interviews were conducted to glean
information about sightings in the area.

The site was visited due to reports of a strange presence:
triangular,zig-zagging lights in the sky and objects that
manifest themselves.

Arriving at the site, which is close to the city of Merida,
members of CAFE visited the home of Hugo Raciel Luna, 24, who
told us fo several UFO experiences.

Hugo began by describing his first UFO sighting. At around 4
p.m. in the month of December [2003] he saw a very bright light
having a magnitude greater than the planet Venus. He told us
that the light's brilliance increased and diminished for several
minutes. He thought at first that it was an airliner or a
satellite, but rejected this possibility because the object
lacked tha navigation lights of an aircraft. He adds that there
was no sound whatsoever and that the object did not follow a
definite trajectory, meaning that it couldn't be a satellite. He
explains that several local residents came out of their homes to
see the object, amounting to 9 witnesses after a while. He was
starting to think the object might be some planet when the light
suddely began moving away and vanished from sight.

After describing this inital sighting, he has devoted more time
to looking at the sky and told us that on a recent Sunday
evening he saw three lights over the Ucu baseball field which
were approaching in a zig-zagging motion between 11 or 12 at
night. He said that in the measure that the lights approached,
he could tell that their number increased to a total of nine in
a triangular formation. Hugo says they were the size of the lamp
on top of a streetlight and appeared to be heading from the
vicinity of Celestun.

Upon seeing this, Hugo alerted his mother and aunts and all of
the locals came out of their homes--a total of 15 witnesses on
this occasion--and remained outside until 1:30 a.m., at which
time the lights vanished.

Hugo explains that during the time that the objects were visible
there was neither sound nor smoke. He comments that there was "a
lot of air in the atmosphere" [sic] and the objects were forming
triangles three by three--the first one toward the west, the
second toward the north, and the third toward the east. After
several turns, the obejcts constituted a larger triangle formed
by the nine lights. Once this configuration was achieved, they
sped off in the direction of M=E9rida.


Researchers: Ing. David Antonio Triay Lucatero, Ing. Yeymy
Gamboa Ku, Emilio Cetz Aguiar.

Translation (c) 2004 Scott Corrales
Institute of Hispanic Ufology (IHU)
Special thanks to CAFE








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                           UFOs Over Nolo Yucatan

From: Scott Corrales <lornis1.nul>
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 08:58:14 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 16:21:48 -0400
Subject: UFOs Over Nolo Yucatan



INEXPLICATA
The Journal of Hispanic Ufology
April 28, 2004


Source: Centro de Analisis de Fenomenos Espaciales (CAFE)
Date: March 20, 2004

While members of the CAFE group were in the town of Nolo on
March 20, 2004 in preparation for the UFO skywatch scheduled for
that day, they were approached by Nicte Ha Martin Loeza, who
reported having had a multiple UFO sighting on March 19 at 8:17
p.m. while she was at the Haltun Ha estate in Nolo doing some
stargazing. Suddenly she noticed four white lights racing over
her head; it was clear to see they were not an aircraft since
there were no blinking lights. She also remarked that no sounds
were heard.

The weather was completely clear and the sky could be seen
perfectly, aside from being in an area where there is little
artificial light. While she observed the movement of the lights,
the third light that followed the first two vanished from sight
and reappeared in front of the two others. Her first idea was to
think that it was some sort of satellite, but she dismissed the
possibility in view of the apparent race that the objects were
engaged in, since the second light seemed to be catching up to
the first. All of the lights vanished after being in view for
two minutes.

After having received this information, the Centro de Analisis
de Fenomenos Espaciales checked to see if a satellite or
satellites had crossed the heavens at that time, but none
coincided with the time and trajectory mentioned by Nicte Ha.
Therefore, the conclusion was reached that she had seen an
unidentified flying object.


Translation (c) 2004 Scott Corrales
Institute of Hispanic Ufology (IHU)
Special thanks to Ing. David Triay Lucatero








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               Re: Rock With Embedded Manmade-Like Component -

From: Tin Shell <tshell.nul>
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 08:09:41 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 16:26:08 -0400
Subject: Re: Rock With Embedded Manmade-Like Component -


>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 01:12:35 -0700
>Subject: Re: Rock With Embedded Manmade-Like Component

>>From: Walt Williams <walt_williams.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 08:10:39 -0700
>>Subject: Rock with Embedded Manmade-Like Component

>>Fascinating pictures, appears to be a potatoe with a
>>three pin plug stuck in it?

>>Wonder what 'rock' is made of? I have seen some sulfa-plastics...

>>http://www.tsc-global.com/rockside1-400.jpg
>>http://www.tsc-global.com/rockoblique1-400.jpg
>>http://www.tsc-global.com/rockcomponent3.jpg
>>http://www.tsc-global.com/part2.jpg
>>http://www.tsc-global.com/partside3.jpg
>>http://www.tsc-global.com/parttop5.jpg
>>http://www.tsc-global.com/rocktop-400.jpg

>>http://www.lonestartek.net/weird.htm
>>http://www.tsc-global.com/rock2.htm

>Otherwise, I would guess we have:

>a) An electric rock for people who them.
>b) A self cooking potato.
>c) Some kid having fun.

Does it plug into the Corso Artifact? Looking at the x-ray of it,
I would have been more impressed if it went down into the rock a
little more. It also would have been nice to have some of the
rock obviously "grown around" the ceramic/metal part.

As it is, it looks like somebody to the contact element out of
an old tube of some kind, drilled a hole in the rock, and stuck
it down in with super glue.

That's my debunking of it.

Of course, I could be totally wrong.

I often am.









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                   Mysterious Wounds On Dead Chilean Sheep

From: Scott Corrales <lornis1.nul>
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 10:41:35 -0400
Fwd Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 16:33:04 -0400
Subject: Mysterious Wounds On Dead Chilean Sheep



INEXPLICATA
The Journal of Hispanic Ufology
April 29, 2004

Source: Diario La Discusion (- Chile

http://www.diarioladiscusion.cl/diario/?

Date: April 28, 2004

Sheep Found Dead With Wounds On Head, Neck

The legend of the Chupacabras acquired relevance yet again among
farmers of the western sector of Chilan after a hellish vision
shattered the day for a farmer in the El Huape sector.

Every morning, Jorge Huichalaf visits the pasture where he keeps
his 75 sheep. It is easy to imagine his shock when he found that
15 of them were dead, showing wounds on their heads and necks.

While the likeliest explanation, by virtue of cases that have
occured before, can be found in canine attacks, the affected
livestock owner indicated his surprise at the nature of the
injuries.

Even though no formal report was presented to them, sanitary
authorities learned of the case and manifested their concern
over possible damage to smallholders and their herds. Without
commenting on the species of the aggressor(s), experts coincided
that the theory of the dog attack represents the likeliest
explanation.

"There has been evidence of wild packs in the El Huape and San
Nicolas sectors. These can engage in violent activity,
particularly if a fierce leader emerges from the pack," said
Jorge Gonz=E1lez, head of the Zoonosis Unit of the
Undersecretariat of the Environment. Sergio Donoso, a
veterinarian at Concepcion University, agreed that is possible
to explain violent acts by dogs when they act as a pack.

"There are different ways in which cats and dogs attack. While
the former usually go for the neck and tend to asphyxiate their
victims, canines bite and tear," said the vet.

Translation (c) 2004
Scott Corrales IHU
Special thanks to Liliana Nunez O.








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               Re: Rock With Embedded Manmade-Like Component -

From: Rod Brock <humble98225.nul>
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 10:49:35 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 16:35:27 -0400
Subject: Re: Rock With Embedded Manmade-Like Component -


>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 01:12:35 -0700
>Subject: Re: Rock With Embedded Manmade-Like Component

Larry wrote:

>Otherwise, I would guess we have:

>a) An electric rock for people who them.
>b) A self cooking potato.
>c) Some kid having fun.

Many pet stores sell "electric rocks" for people who keep
lizards or snakes. They help the critters keep warm, when the
night is chill. Basically the lapidary equivalent of an electric
blanket, or heating pad.


R.B.

=====
THE MAGONIA EXCHANGE LIST
Collecting and sharing accounts
of anomalous aerial phenomena
from antiquity up to 1947.
http://embark.to/magonia
----------






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                      MP3s And Ufology's Audio History

From: Wendy Connors <fadeddiscs.nul>
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 12:29:45 -0600
Fwd Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 16:40:32 -0400
Subject: MP3s And Ufology's Audio History



Dear Listarians,

A short note for those who are receiving the archival recordings
from early Ufology. I've received a couple of e-mails saying
that the disc won't play in a regular cd player, so thought the
following information will be of benefit.

The MP3 disc is burned as a data disc for your computer. The
discs are designed as a computer reference disc for Ufology.
This means that once you receive your disc, open your browser
and click on the drive letter that holds the mp3 disc. You will
see the listing of audio files on the disc.

You will notice the first file is called "Guide". Click on this
and print it out. It is a guide of the recordings on the disc
and gives background information. Select a recording you would
like to listen to and adjust your computer's volume, bass and
treble for your personal taste. Remember, it is impossible to
remove all problems with older recordings.

Most newer DVD players and mp3 equped CD players will play the
disc, but some will not... so much for standardization and the
reason for this post. <G>

If you want to make a full CD version of any of the recordings,
you can download from the internet a program called, "Total
Recorder". This will allow you to convert mp3 files to any
number of regular audio files which you can burn to a disc. If
you use a recording for your website, etc., please be
conscientious and give credit to 'Faded Discs' or Wendy Connors.
Thanks!

I know that many people have yet to enter the MP3 arena, but it
is a great method for putting many huge audio files onto a
single CDR. This saves time and effort in locating a particular
audio file during research sessions and keeps all recordings on
a particular case, person or event together.

An up-coming release is: Wilbert B. Smith and Project Magnet.

Thank you for supporting the audio preservation project.


Wendy Connors
www.fadeddiscs.com








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                Re: National Post Article On Majic - Kimball

From: Paul Kimball Kimballwood.nul
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 15:07:19 EDT
Fwd Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 16:53:00 -0400
Subject: Re: National Post Article On Majic - Kimball


>From: Stanton Friedman <fsphys.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 11:42:58 -0300
>Subject: National Post Article On Majic

<snip>

>Listers may be interested in the article on page B3 of today's
>National Post (Toronto) about tonight's showing on SPACE: The
>Imagination TV Channel at 9PM EDT (10PM ADT) of the new
>documentary Do You Believe In Majic?, produced and directed by
>Paul Kimball. The article (without the picture) is on the web
>at:

http://www.canada.com/national/nationalpost/news/artslife/story.html?id=7782815f
->da46-497d-8e24-f72b7913caaa.

All:

A review of "Do You Believe in Majic?" that takes a different -
 and more positive - tack from the National Post review can be
found at:

http://english.aliant.net/FeatureArticle.jsp?language=en&banner=true&FeatureID=8
325308&chname=Entertainment

I should note that I did not receive a standing ovation at
Aztec, however!


Best regards,

Paul Kimball
Redstar Films








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                 Re: Moon UFO No Longer Unidentified - Oberg

From: James Oberg <joberg.nul>
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 16:14:48 -0500
Fwd Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 17:38:33 -0400
Subject: Re: Moon UFO No Longer Unidentified - Oberg


>From: Terry Groff <terry.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 17:39:09 -0500
>Subject: Re: Moon UFO No Longer Unidentified

>I find it odd the neither Young, Mattingly or Duke were able to
>recognize the EVA Floodlight/boom, or, if they did, why they
>wouldn't mention it. I also wonder why, if it was the boom, it
>had not been retracted into the payload bay after the last EVA.

I don't find it odd at all especially since the images I sent
them were multi-generational contrast-weak poor quality copies.

As to not mentioning something they recognized, how many pilots
look out a window of their cockpit and remark, �oh I see a
wing�, if it�s part of their spacecraft that they�ve always
known was there.

As to wondering why it wasn�t retracted �after the last EVA�,
let me say this as diplomatically as possible. The only Apollo
CSM EVA on the flight hadn�t occurred yet, and you should have
known that before alleging the opposite was true.


James Oberg

www.jamesoberg.com







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             Re: New Maps - Missing Time & Abductions - Tonnies

From: Mac Tonnies <macbot.nul>
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 10:32:58 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 04:55:33 -0400
Subject: Re: New Maps - Missing Time & Abductions - Tonnies


>From: Larry Hatch <larryhatch.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto
><ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 01:25:44 -0700
>Subject: New Maps - Missing Time & Abductions

>Hello all:

>This is to announce yet more maps on my website:

>http://www.larryhatch.net

Congratulations, Larry. For my money, this represents some of
the most important work ever done in the field. Keep it up.


=====
Mac Tonnies (macbot.nul)

Explore MTVI @ http://www.mactonnies.com

Posthuman Blues: http://posthumanblues.blogspot.com (daily blog)

Pre-order "After the Martian Apocalypse": in bookstores July 6!
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/074348293X








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               Re: Richard Dolan's X-Conference Review - Gates

From: Robert Gates <RGates8254.nul>
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 20:53:49 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 06:06:24 -0400
Subject: Re: Richard Dolan's X-Conference Review - Gates


>Source: Phenomena Magazine

>http://www.phenomenamagazine.com/0/editorial.asp?aff_id=0&this_cat=Area+51&acti
on=page&obj_id=927
>
>Dateline: Tuesday, April 27, 2004


>The X-Conference
>Not Lights in the Sky, but Lies on the Ground

>By: Richard M. Dolan
>Senior Editor
>Phenomena Magazine

<snip>

>A complete list of the speakers included: Stephen Bassett
>(organizer and co-moderator), Dr. William Birnes, Grant Cameron,
>Philip Corso, Jr., Paul Davids, Richard Dolan, Ann Druffel,
>Stanton Friedman, Timothy Good, Dr. Steven Greer, William
>Hamilton, Terry Hansen, Paola Harris, Richard C. Hoagland,
>Linda Moulton Howe, Dr. C.B. Scott Jones, Cheryll Jones (co-
>moderator), Jim Marrs, Dr. Bruce Maccabee, Nick Pope, Peter
>Robbins, Dr. Michael Salla, Dr. Richard Sauder, Dr. Tom Van
>Flandern, Dr. Robert Wood, Ryan Wood.

I wondered if Corso Jr, gave an update on Seniors' second book
that was going to talk about the Nazi time machine, the New
Mexico time machine and his meeting with aliens in a mine on the
White Sands missile range.


Cheers,

Robert









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                       Pravda On "Mass Disappearances"

From: Kenny Young <ufo.nul>
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 01:30:38 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 06:15:17 -0400
Subject: Pravda On "Mass Disappearances"


Source: Pravda

http://english.pravda.ru/science/19/94/377/12624_Holes.html

04-26-04

"Black Holes" Devour People
Pravda

A group of 150 people disappeared within one minute

Witnesses clearly saw that a glimmering cloud shrouded the
people who entered a small valley. Then the foggy mass lifted
off and disappeared in the blue carrying along the first
battalion of the 5th Norfolk regiment of the British army - all
soldiers to a man were gone...

Vanished in a cloud

The event which occurred on August 21, 1915, when an entire
battalion was gone in the presence of other people, had been an
official secret for over fifty years. Only in 1967 the documents
containing the testimonies of twenty witnesses to this incident,
which happened in the Southern Europe near Dardanelles, were
made public. A long search for the vanished soldiers was
mounted. But none of them had been found neither among the dead,
nor among the POWs released by Turks after the war.

Mass disappearances of people are among the mysteries in the
world history which are most hard to explain. So far scientists
cannot offer a lucid explanation for such strange things, as the
disappearance in 1590 of about a hundred men, women and
children, who lived in an American colony on Roanoke Island.
When the soldiers marched in the village, they saw burning
candles and tables set for meal in the huts, but with no
settlers around. The first idea was that Indians had killed
them, but no drop of blood or dead body could be found anywhere.
Only a few words were left carved seemingly in great haste on a
tree near the priest's house reading "it doesn't look like... ".

The search for six hundred inhabitants of the settlement Hoer-
Verde in Brazil, who disappeared on February 5, 1923, was given
up a long time ago. The police thoroughly examined the vacated
small town. At school, they noticed a gun, which was apparently
used the day before, lying on the floor and words "there is no
salvation" written on a blackboard.

"We can only guess why such mysteries happen, but so far we have
failed to find any scientific explanation for them," said Zong
Li, Doctor of History from Harbin, who had been investigating
cases of mass disappearances in China for many years. "Well, how
can the disappearance of 3, 000 Chinese soldiers near Nanking,
where they held their positions on a December night in 1937, be
explained? Next morning, radio communication with this unit was
suddenly lost, and a reconnaissance group dispatched quickly did
not find any trace of the people. It appeared as if they had
deserted, but around there were posts of armed guard and the
soldiers could not escape unnoticed. Recently, an investigation
in the city archive produced evidence of the 12th company 100
strong of the Soviet NKVD forces disappeared in November 1945.
The group was heading for the railway station and did not come
back. A search yielded only slight traces like tents put up for
a halt, or an extinguished fire. That same year, a train
carrying hundreds of passengers traveling from Guandun to
Shanghai was lost halfway to its destination, leaving not a
single nut. Where might all the passengers have gone?

The Ominous God

Researcher Richard Lazarus suggests that meteorites are behind
these mysteries. During their fall on the ground, celestial
bodies are charged with a potential as high as billions of volt.
On hitting Earth's surface they explode with a violent force, as
it happened near the River Tunguska, Siberia. But sometimes
meteorites fall apart before they reach Earth, hitting it with a
huge wave of energy that creates electrostatic levitation. Under
these circumstances, large groups of people, ships or even
trains may be lifted up and transferred across vast distances.

Ancient Greeks of the city-states situated in Italy attributed
the disappearance of people to the deeds of god Proteus.
Consisting of protoplasm it dozes underground and once in 50
years wakes up to have a meal. Proteus could transform into any
thing and was imagined as coming to the surface from volcanoes.

So, people had to sacrifice to it a hundred of virgin slave
girls leaving them near a volcano. And they disappeared without
a trace, leaving behind only their fetters. The well-known
American writer Dean Koontz in his horror book Phantoms favors a
theory of the incorporeal god and believes that Proteus existed
in reality.

"It is an enormous mass of protoplasm covering maybe an area of
some square kilometers," explains Koontz. "Some millions years
of age, it is probably one of the very first forms of life
existing in the entrails of Earth or deep in the ocean. Once or
twice in a century it eats people dissolving and digesting them
almost entirely. Deep pools of water were found in the huts of
Roanoke colony. A Chinese pilot searching for a missed train
spotted from air a small lake that seemed to emerge from
nowhere. Frozen water was found in the huts of an abandoned
small Eskimo village on the shores of Lake Anjikuni, Canada, in
1930. The human body is 90 percent water, and that was perhaps
all that was left of the dissolved victims of Proteus.

Missing ships

Stories about crews vanishing with their ships are known
worldwide. The story of the brig Mary Celeste found in 1872
drifting between the Azores and Portugal is a classic example. A
boarding party dispatched from another ship discovered
unfinished smoking tobacco pipes, prepared meals, mugs with
dried up beer... and not a single sailor onboard.

The same happened near Philippines when in 1955 the steam-ship
Hoita was found drifting without a crew, or in 1941, when a
patrol vessel in the North Atlantic came upon the ship Iceland
to find her engines running and everything looking normal,
except that not a single soul was seen anywhere around.

"I blame the so-called "black holes" for disappearance of
people", says Jane Lindsett, Professor, California University,
San Francisco. "Periodically, time and space on Earth refract,
and entire cities may find themselves in a different dimension,
which sometimes "spits them out". There are scores of such
"black holes " on Earth, and people frequently get in them. A
decade ago, a 36-year-old Lydia Kimfield, Androver (Texas),
disappeared during her visit to the doctor. An hour later her
body was found one thousand kilometers away from the city. An
autopsy showed that she had died two months earlier! In the
state of New Mexico there is a road on which 19 people
disappeared without a trace, the last case being in 1997. The
road runs across the desert, which can be observed from air. The
vanished people might have been carried over to the ocean or
woods where they perished. Objects cannot travel across space,
that's why ships were found vacated, but the belongings of those
who disappeared were in place".

At the same time, Professor Lindsett cannot explain the
mysterious signs on the wall of the Mayan temple and on the tree
in Roanoke.

One of the recent bizarre events happened in the village of
Stomu, Congo, in 2001 in a quiet area in the north, where the
local insurgents were not active. The UN staff that brought
humanitarian aid to the village (there are problems with food
supplies in that country ) found there neither people, nor
domestic animals and poultry. The tribe leader attempted to give
a warning in the local language about something awful using a
piece of charcoal to scrawl "Run! It...". But the phrase was
left unfinished.

Apropos

In the Soviet Union, the authorities generally hushed up cases
of unexplained disappearance of people. However, in 1991, the
KGB declassified some information about an An-2 airplane, which
had vanished from the radar screens thirty years earlier near
the city of Sverdlovsk with seven people aboard. Soon, a rescue
team in the woods found the wrecks of the disintegrated
airplane. Not a trace of bodies or a drop of blood inevitably
present after similar crashes was found, only a circle of
unclear origin 30 meters in diameter was burnt out on the ground
not far from the crash site. Later, the rescuers had to sign
papers undertaking recognizance not to disclose anything they
had seen.







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                          Cattle Mute Near Winnepeg

From: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 06:21:16 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 06:21:16 -0400
Subject: Cattle Mute Near Winnepeg




Source: The Winnipeg Sun

http://www.canoe.ca/NewsStand/WinnipegSun/News/2004/04/29/440232.html

04-29-04

Cow cut, drained in Arborg
Mutilation mystifies

By

Natalie Pona
Staff Reporter

An Arborg cattle farmer made a horrific discovery Monday when he
found the partially skinned carcass of one of his animals that
was missing its tongue and apparently drained of its blood. "The
whole thing has turned out to be more sinister than I thought,"
said Yvonne, a neighbour, who examined the mutilated animal. She
asked not to have her last name used to protect her family.

"What sort of weirdos have we got travelling in our
neighbourhood?"

Gordon, who would only allow The Sun to print his first name,
said he discovered the carcass on his farm Monday afternoon.

"I don't really want to speculate on what happened. I know what
I saw," he said, adding he is still shaken up by the find.

Arborg is 100 kilometres north of Winnipeg.

COW MUTILATIONS

The mutilation happened Saturday or Sunday night, Gordon said.
No one heard anything.

He's heard of several cow mutilations in the area over the past
few years, Gordon said.

He called the RCMP, reporting that the animal had been attacked
by a predator. He has since changed his mind about the cause.

"It was definitely a sharp object used," he said.

Arborg RCMP Cpl. Glenn Syme said he has never investigated an
instance of cattle mutilation. The RCMP did take a call this
week about a cow being attacked by a predator, likely from
Gordon.

SKIN PULLED FROM FACE

The animal was found with an incision under its chin. The skin
had been pulled from the face, exposing the teeth.

"It's not the gore, we've seen that before, it's the evil behind
it," Yvonne said.

The tip of the animal's tongue, cut from its root, was placed in
the mouth, she said.

"There's not a drop of blood in that animal. The only way you
can drain an animal of blood is (to cut into it) with the heart
still pumping," Yvonne said.

The cuts were very precise, as if made by a surgeon, she said.

"You don't know who you're dealing with ... the average wild and
woolly neighbourhood brat wouldn't be capable of doing it," she
said.

Gordon and Yvonne called Fern Belzil, an Alberta-based
investigator of unexplained deaths who has been studying cow
mutilations for eight years, for help.

Belzil has studied 100 cases, two-thirds of which remain
unexplained.

"I'm not saying it's aliens ... a lot points towards aliens but
there is no proof," he said.

Belzil said he has never encountered any evidence pointing to
who or what is killing cows.

"It's a real mystery," he said.







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                              Will-O-The Wisps

From: Terry W. Colvin <fortean1.nul>
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 23:30:51 -0700
Fwd Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 06:50:39 -0400
Subject: Will-O-The Wisps


Forwarding permission was given by William R. Corliss.

Science Frontiers, No. 153, May-Jun, 2004, pp. 3-4

http://www.science-frontiers.com


GEOPHYSICS

Will-O-The Wisps

*Science Frontiers* has published many observations of ball
lightning - a phenomenon so common that mainstream scientists
*almost* believe it to be real! Ball lightning is closely
associated with energetic electrical storms, and the formation
of glowing spheres of plasma is not unreasonable under such
conditions - conditions which scientists can also simulate in
their comfortable laboratories.

But scientific belief is much weaker when considering those
gentle, ethereal balls of luminosity called "will-o-the wisps."
These balls of luminosity cavort and flit ghost-like over marshy
terrain. Their energy source probably derives from chemical
reactions in the rotting vegetation below, but we don't see many
scientists wading through mosquito-thick marshes in the middle
of the night trying to learn more about will-o-the wisps.

In a brief paper on will-o-the wisps in *Weather*, J. Davis and
M. Thain fall back upon field experiences recorded by the well-
known Norfolk naturalist E.A. Ellis.

Ellis's own first description was of drifting white shapes over
a marsh on a calm, clear moonlit night, which he tentatively
ascribed simply to surface mist being disturbed by night
breezes. However, his scepticism was soon challenged by two
correspondents. The first sighting sounded more like ball
lightning ("balls of light or fire...which travelled about 1,000
yards [914 m]...and 20 feet [9 m] above ground...[and
illuminating] the hedges [over which they moved]"), although he
does say that there was "no electrical disturbance". The second
observation was similarity of a "bright luminous ball...about 20
feet from the ground... which moved about over a pond".

The remainder of the article by Davis and Thain speculates on
various possible chemical energy sources. But they come to no
specific conclusion. How could they without hard data?

(Davis, John, and Thain, Malcolm; "Will-o-the Wisp," *Weather*,
56:66, 2001)

Comment. Will-o-the wisp "science" is merely the collection of
anecdotes!


[Science Frontiers is a bimonthly collection of digests of scientific
anomalies in the current literature. Published by the Sourcebook Project,
P.O. Box 107, Glen Arm, MD 21057. Annual subscription: $8.00.]


--

"Only a zit on the wart on the heinie of progress."
Copyright 1992, Frank Rice


Terry W. Colvin
Sierra Vista
Arizona (USA)

fortean1.nul








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             Re: Richard Dolan's X-Conference Review - Lehmberg

From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul>
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 07:05:31 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 08:28:01 -0400
Subject: Re: Richard Dolan's X-Conference Review - Lehmberg


>From: Robert Gates <RGates8254.nul>
>To: ufoupdates.nul
>Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 20:53:49 -0400
>Subject: Re: Richard Dolan's X-Conference Review

>>Source: Phenomena Magazine

>http://www.phenomenamagazine.com/0/editorial.asp?aff_id=0&this_cat=Area+51&acti
on=page&obj_id=927

>>Dateline: Tuesday, April 27, 2004

>>The X-Conference
>>Not Lights in the Sky, but Lies on the Ground

>>By: Richard M. Dolan
>>Senior Editor
>>Phenomena Magazine

><snip>

>>A complete list of the speakers included: Stephen Bassett
>>(organizer and co-moderator), Dr. William Birnes, Grant Cameron,
>>Philip Corso, Jr., Paul Davids, Richard Dolan, Ann Druffel,
>>Stanton Friedman, Timothy Good, Dr. Steven Greer, William
>>Hamilton, Terry Hansen, Paola Harris, Richard C. Hoagland,
>>Linda Moulton Howe, Dr. C.B. Scott Jones, Cheryll Jones (co-
>>moderator), Jim Marrs, Dr. Bruce Maccabee, Nick Pope, Peter
>>Robbins, Dr. Michael Salla, Dr. Richard Sauder, Dr. Tom Van
>>Flandern, Dr. Robert Wood, Ryan Wood.
>
>I wondered if Corso Jr, gave an update on Seniors' second book
>that was going to talk about the Nazi time machine, the New
>Mexico time machine and his meeting with aliens in a mine on the
>White Sands missile range.


...And that, Sir, is a little like focusing attention on the
(with all respect!) 'whack-jobs'... at the tragic expense of
serious persons, like our (something less than intrepid) Ms.
Stanley lately demonstrated. Mr. Dolan had much else to talk
about... nest ce pas? What was it... do you remember... is it
important... ...should we be getting uptight about the phony
piping when the cloth itself is likely diamond's dust and dream
demonstration?

I've lately been corresponding with a woman who will tolerate no
communities (like our ufological one?) with even _one_ scalawag
situated among the 'sanction-able' saints. The validity, then,
of the apparent, extant, rational, and obvious... is reflexively
obliterated (!)... with but one dog laying amongst the women and
men! A stretch, but a little like dismissing Jesus and the
Apostles because they broke some bread with that fellow from
Iscariot. I observe that that might be lot like removing the
nose to spite the face. Were I to go along with her, than she,
too, would be discredited along with the dogdirt on _her_ shoe,
and there would be no consensus or agreement possible, no
cooperation, and therefore no advancement, progress, or
individual enlightenment. Frauds and charlatans are survived
everywhere else! Our ufology can survive it too!

It remains that there was a lot going on at that "X" Conference
that Rich Dolan signs on for (which _is_ significant because he
has his feces in cited consolidation!) and Corso (et al) becomes
mere excuse...(...and not a very brave one?) to avoid having to
think and act regarding those 'other' issues, those more
'immediate' issues... those more 'critical' issues...

...Regarding Corso, has anyone considered that he was a company
man to the end and leavened in foop-hoolery with the actuality
to discredit the actuality many of us feel _must_ be there?

Vote, Steve! Let's give consideration to UFOs... a freaking
national _mandate_! Steve is well within range of this! Now is
_not_ the time to back off... now is the time to push harder!
Remember; while it _is_ a show, it is _not_ a fantasy!

http://www.americancandidate.com/candidate_homepage.php?id1

alienview.nul
www.AlienView.net

alienview.nul

EXPLORE "AlienViewGroup" at its HostPros URL.
http://www.alienview.net


JOHN FORD RESTORATION FUND -- John will be released eventually.
He'll need a tax free cash stake to get on his feet. Let's put
one together for him; the bigger it is -- the more attention
he gets. It could have been you. E-mail for detail.
$450.00 pledged -- $300.00 collected!

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite.
What others see from afar, I leave far behind me."
- Giordano Bruno, scourged by the scabrously specious scurrilous.








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              Re: Richard Dolan's X-Conference Review - Kaeser

From: Steven Kaeser <steve.nul>
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 08:44:27 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 10:55:39 -0400
Subject: Re: Richard Dolan's X-Conference Review - Kaeser


>From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 07:05:31 -0500
>Subject: Re: Richard Dolan's X-Conference Review

>>From: Robert Gates <RGates8254.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 20:53:49 -0400
>>Subject: Re: Richard Dolan's X-Conference Review

>>>Source: Phenomena Magazine

>http://www.phenomenamagazine.com/0/editorial.asp?aff_id=0&this_cat=Area+51&acti
on=page&obj_id=927

>>>Dateline: Tuesday, April 27, 2004

>>>The X-Conference
>>>Not Lights in the Sky, but Lies on the Ground

>>>By: Richard M. Dolan
>>>Senior Editor
>>>Phenomena Magazine

>><snip>

>>>A complete list of the speakers included: Stephen Bassett
>>>(organizer and co-moderator), Dr. William Birnes, Grant Cameron,
>>>Philip Corso, Jr., Paul Davids, Richard Dolan, Ann Druffel,
>>>Stanton Friedman, Timothy Good, Dr. Steven Greer, William
>>>Hamilton, Terry Hansen, Paola Harris, Richard C. Hoagland,
>>>Linda Moulton Howe, Dr. C.B. Scott Jones, Cheryll Jones (co-
>>>moderator), Jim Marrs, Dr. Bruce Maccabee, Nick Pope, Peter
>>>Robbins, Dr. Michael Salla, Dr. Richard Sauder, Dr. Tom Van
>>>Flandern, Dr. Robert Wood, Ryan Wood.

>>I wondered if Corso Jr, gave an update on Seniors' second book
>>that was going to talk about the Nazi time machine, the New
>>Mexico time machine and his meeting with aliens in a mine on the
>>White Sands missile range.

>...And that, Sir, is a little like focusing attention on the
>(with all respect!) 'whack-jobs'... at the tragic expense of
>serious persons, like our (something less than intrepid) Ms.
>Stanley lately demonstrated. Mr. Dolan had much else to talk
>about... nest ce pas? What was it... do you remember... is it
>important... ...should we be getting uptight about the phony
>piping when the cloth itself is likely diamond's dust and dream
>demonstration?

Seems like an honest question to me, but whatever.....

One of the volunteers at the X-Conference (a close friend of
both Stephen Bassett and myself) said that Corso Junior's
presentation was an embarassment. But, he added that a majority
of the speakers were very good and presented good material, so
his impression on Corso shouldn't be construed as more than
that.

Let's not forget that this was is being promoted as an "annual"
event. I have no doubt that if this was successful financially,
it will be repeated next year.


Steve









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             Re: Richard Dolan's X-Conference Review - Hamilton

From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22.nul>
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 06:13:32 -0700
Fwd Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 11:04:42 -0400
Subject: Re: Richard Dolan's X-Conference Review - Hamilton


>From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 07:05:31 -0500
>Subject: Re: Richard Dolan's X-Conference Review

>>From: Robert Gates <RGates8254.nul>
>>To: ufoupdates.nul
>>Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 20:53:49 -0400
>>Subject: Re: Richard Dolan's X-Conference Review

>>>Source: Phenomena Magazine

>>http://www.phenomenamagazine.com/0/editorial.asp?aff_id=0&this_cat=Area+51&act
ion=page&obj_id=927

>>>Dateline: Tuesday, April 27, 2004

>>>The X-Conference
>>>Not Lights in the Sky, but Lies on the Ground

>>>By: Richard M. Dolan
>>>Senior Editor
>>>Phenomena Magazine

>><snip>

>>>A complete list of the speakers included: Stephen Bassett
>>>(organizer and co-moderator), Dr. William Birnes, Grant Cameron,
>>>Philip Corso, Jr., Paul Davids, Richard Dolan, Ann Druffel,
>>>Stanton Friedman, Timothy Good, Dr. Steven Greer, William
>>>Hamilton, Terry Hansen, Paola Harris, Richard C. Hoagland,
>>>Linda Moulton Howe, Dr. C.B. Scott Jones, Cheryll Jones (co-
>>>moderator), Jim Marrs, Dr. Bruce Maccabee, Nick Pope, Peter
>>>Robbins, Dr. Michael Salla, Dr. Richard Sauder, Dr. Tom Van
>>>Flandern, Dr. Robert Wood, Ryan Wood.

>>I wondered if Corso Jr, gave an update on Seniors' second book
>>that was going to talk about the Nazi time machine, the New
>>Mexico time machine and his meeting with aliens in a mine on the
>>White Sands missile range.

>...And that, Sir, is a little like focusing attention on the
>(with all respect!) 'whack-jobs'... at the tragic expense of
>serious persons, like our (something less than intrepid) Ms.
>Stanley lately demonstrated. Mr. Dolan had much else to talk
>about... nest ce pas? What was it... do you remember... is it
>important... ...should we be getting uptight about the phony
>piping when the cloth itself is likely diamond's dust and dream
>demonstration?

As one of the whacko speakers at the X-Conference, having had a
serious childhood interest in this subject, being open to new
ideas, yet trying to ground myself in the fuzzy, factual world
we all find it necessary to deal with, I must add my 2 cents
even though I cannot compete with your prose, Alfred.

I was favorably impressed with Corso Sr. when I met him in 1997
and had dinner table conversations with him, but I was dismayed
when I heard him support the Carlos Diaz story now known to be a
fraud. But that was a mild disappointment compared to hearing
the diatribe uttered by Jr. at the X-Conference. I don't mean to
be harsh, but Corso Jr. in expounding on the details of the
Roswell craft after passing out illustrations of the Testor
model made it clear to all that it was he who built the craft in
some uncertain future which then was launched through time from
the year 2032 only to crash land in our year of 1947 and
altering the timeline for one and all. While I do entertain
theories of time travel, this exposition left me with the
feeling that Corso Jr., who was asking support for his efforts,
and relating his relationship to aviator Burt Rutan, was going
to go down as the man who built the first time machine
regardless of the fact that he gave me absolutely no confidence
that he had any proficiency in engineering or physics. He simply
said that many men had their Harley Davidson which they admired
and this was his own private Harley Davidson!

Roswell mystery solved: It was a time machine built and launched
by Phil Corso Jr. This is a cogent reason among others to
reaffirm my plans to retire from this field.


-Bill H.








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               Re: Pravda On "Mass Disappearances" - Stanford

From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 09:36:12 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 11:06:03 -0400
Subject: Re: Pravda On "Mass Disappearances" - Stanford


>From: Kenny Young <ufo.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 01:30:38 -0400
>Subject: Pravda On "Mass Disappearances"

>Source: Pravda

>http://english.pravda.ru/science/19/94/377/12624_Holes.html

>04-26-04

>"Black Holes" Devour People
>Pravda

<snip>

>Researcher Richard Lazarus suggests that meteorites are behind
>these mysteries. During their fall on the ground, celestial
>bodies are charged with a potential as high as billions of volt.
>On hitting Earth's surface they explode with a violent force, as
>it happened near the River Tunguska, Siberia. But sometimes
>meteorites fall apart before they reach Earth, hitting it with a
>huge wave of energy that creates electrostatic levitation. Under
>these circumstances, large groups of people, ships or even
>trains may be lifted up and transferred across vast distances.

<snip>

Hogwash! Or, in other words, Pravda (also Richard Lazarus) is
shoveling out figurative bovine excrement. Let me comment upon
this particular example of myth-making:

The plasma generated by the hypersonic passage of cosmic bodies
(that become meteorites upon striking the ground) through the
very upper reaches of earth's atmosphere is dissipated (unless
they are of extremely large and rare size) upon retardation from
cosmic (orbital) velocity and ceases to further be generated,
usually at above twenty miles altitude.

The Tunguska cosmic body (interpreted by most who have studied
the evidence as having been a small comet) did not hit the
earth's surface at all, contrary to the statement, above. It
exploded far above the earth with energy that was detected
around the world. Its hypersonic shock wave was what did the
damage on the ground. The reports by some that it varied its
trajectory are easily explained by pressure-induced side
explosions (some due to out-gassing of, perhaps, cometary water
or even solids), sometimes seen and even photographically
recorded in even much less energetic meteoritic events.

If one doubts the damage cometary strikes upon a planet can
cause, look back a few years at the well-documented effects the
cometary strikes on Jupiter caused. Just one such strike might
have destroyed all life on earth. Be glad the Tunguska body was
a relatively small one.

Furthermore, no evidence has ever been documented of
"electrostatic levitation" in meteoric passage of cosmic bodies,
whether large or small. Someone is really letting the
imagination run wild.

The former should not be taken as commentary on whether there
have been any large-scale and anomalous sudden disappearance of
large groups of people. I have not done any in-depth study of
such claims or cases, but if one chooses to believe such
reports, for the sake of realism, let's leave meteors (both
large and small) out of the list of possible causes.

It is true that the impact of a cosmic body so large that it is
not retarded from cosmic velocity would vaporize the soil and
rock in the area where it strikes (along with any organisms,
including people), but in that case I am confident that the
evidence of what happened would be as clear as the resulting
large crater on the earth's surface.


Ray Stanford








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                            The Acevedo Abduction

From: Scott Corrales <lornis1.nul>
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 10:50:13 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 11:14:43 -0400
Subject: The Acevedo Abduction


In 2004, experiencer Hector Acevedo was interviewed about his
1997 close encounter with a UFO. Information is below.

-----

Erick Bellido Interviews Hector Acevedo:

"I Was Abducted by a UFO"

A humble tradesman of the 9th Region (Chile is politically
divided into Regions, which are equivalent to provinces or
states) descrbed his close encounter of the 3rd kind, an event
that thrust him into frenzied panic after his car was
intercepted by an unknown vehicle that enveloped his sedan in a
powerful light.


SANTIAGO (Chile) February 5.- On a winter's day in 1997, Hector
Acevedo was driving his white Daihatsu Charade distributing milk
products throughout the Ninth Region. Every day he covered a
different route, supplying his product to small and medium-sized
rural businesses. In mid-July of that year, his company assigned
him to cover a pre-sales rout between the towns of Los Sauces
and Pur=E9n, half and hour distant from each other by car. At
20:00 hours by the clock, Acevedo had finished his duties for
the day and had gone to retrieve some household appliances he
had dropped off for repair. So it was that while he put the
appliances into his trunk, the owner of the repair shop told him
that some strange lights had been flying overhead at lightning
speed. Acevedo paid little heed: it was a clear night and there
was no sign of bad weather.

Several minutes later, when he was about to reach Los Sauces,
the lonely driver was confronted by a phenomenon that would scar
him for the rest of his life.

EB: What was it you saw on that occasion?

HE: I was driving along when a circular object appeared before
me just as I was taking a curve. It was flying at low altitude
and I estimate that it measured between 15-20 meters in
diameter.

EB: How did you react?

HE: Just imagine running into a giant thing almost on top of you
and hanging in mid-air. The truth is that I was very tense and
broke into a cold sweat.

EB: So what happened at that time?

HE: Well, this thing hovered over my car and surrounded it in a
beam of light that subsequently drained off, in other words, it
lost power.

EB: How fast were you driving?

HE: I was driving at more or less 80 kilometers, but when the
object appeared, the car's RPMs dropped to 20 kmh.

EB: You must've braked suddenly!

HE: No sir, I never braked. The car appeared to steer itself,
because I couldn't even handle the steering wheel.

EB: Those minutes must've been complicated.....

HE: They were endless. No one has been able to give me a
satisfactory explanation for this experience. I wouldn't wish it
on anyone.

EB: Did the phenomenon progress or did it remain stationary?

HE: During the nearly 10 minutes it lasted, the mass had a
reddish hue and another shade-a violet one-would appear in the
center. But the strange thing was that it didn't cast any light
outward. On the other hand, the light that enveloped my car
changed its intensity from pale white to intense white. It was
so strong I couldn't even distinguish my shoes or the brake and
accelerator pedals.

EB: How did this close encounter end?

HE: The truth is that I don't know. I have no memories
whatsoever after what I told you. What's odd is that I finally
reached Los Sauces after 23:00 hours and I never knew how I did
it. I just don't recall.

EB: How do you interpret your experience?

HE: I don't know. I think I was abducted by a UFO.

EB: Why did you decide to tell your story?

HE: So if this should ever happen to someone else, he or she
won't be accused of being a nut, because after having
experienced something like this, one becomes sensitized,
especially toward strange phenomena. At first I sought support
in my friends, because I was even afraid to tell my wife of the
experience.

EB: Do you think it's important to make these cases known?

HE: It's just that we're not ready for this, and that's the
fact.

EB: And when you reached home, what did your wife say?

HE: She was scared when she saw me. My face was a pale, leaden
color, and my body ached so much it was like someone who'd been
hit by a train and survived. I was lucky to live to tell the
tale.....

-----

Translation (c) 2004. Scott Corrales
Institute of Hispanic Ufology
Special thanks to Mario Luis Bracamonte (SIO)


Scott Corrales
Institute of Hispanic Ufology
INEXPLICATA-The Journal of Hispanic Ufology
www.inexplicata.us








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             Re: Richard Dolan's X-Conference Review - Lehmberg

From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul>
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 10:22:18 -0500
Fwd Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 13:37:23 -0400
Subject: Re: Richard Dolan's X-Conference Review - Lehmberg


>From: Steven Kaeser <steve.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 08:44:27 -0400
>Subject: Re: Richard Dolan's X-Conference Review

>>From: Alfred Lehmberg <alienview.nul>
>>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 07:05:31 -0500
>>Subject: Re: Richard Dolan's X-Conference Review

<snip>

>>...And that, Sir, is a little like focusing attention on the
>>(with all respect!) 'whack-jobs'... at the tragic expense of
>>serious persons, like our (something less than intrepid) Ms.
>>Stanley lately demonstrated. Mr. Dolan had much else to talk
>>about... nest ce pas? What was it... do you remember... is it
>>important... ...should we be getting uptight about the phony
>>piping when the cloth itself is likely diamond's dust and dream
>>demonstration?

>Seems like an honest question to me, but whatever.....

>One of the volunteers at the X-Conference (a close friend of
>both Stephen Bassett and myself) said that Corso Junior's
>presentation was an embarassment. But, he added that a majority
>of the speakers were very good and presented good material, so
>his impression on Corso shouldn't be construed as more than
>that.

>Let's not forget that this was is being promoted as an "annual"
>event. I have no doubt that if this was successful financially,
>it will be repeated next year.

Sounds inappropriately sullen, mean-spirited, and cynical to
me, Sir, but then I'm one, presently, to see the glass half
filled, even if we can _both_ agree that the glass is not yet
full.


alienview.nul

EXPLORE "AlienViewGroup" at its HostPros URL.
http://www.alienview.net


JOHN FORD RESTORATION FUND -- John will be released eventually.
He'll need a tax free cash stake to get on his feet. Let's put
one together for him; the bigger it is -- the more attention
he gets. It could have been you. E-mail for detail.
$450.00 pledged -- $300.00 collected!

"I cleave the heavens, and soar to the infinite.
What others see from afar, I leave far behind me."
- Giordano Bruno, scourged by the scabrously specious scurrilous.








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   Apr > Apr 30

                Re: Pravda On "Mass Disappearances" - Bueche

From: Will Bueche <willbueche.nul>
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 08:26:13 -0700 (PDT)
Fwd Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 13:39:14 -0400
Subject: Re: Pravda On "Mass Disappearances" - Bueche


>From: Kenny Young <ufo.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 01:30:38 -0400
>Subject: Pravda On "Mass Disappearances"

>Source: Pravda

>http://english.pravda.ru/science/19/94/377/12624_Holes.html

>04-26-04

>"Black Holes" Devour People
>Pravda

>A group of 150 people disappeared within one minute

<snip>

Everyone here may be aware of this, but some may not:

Pravda.ru is not the real Pravda newspaper website. Pravda (the
old communist newspaper) hasn't existed for a decade, and
therefore does not even have a website.

The editor of the fake Pravda website, Wadim Gorshenin, was a
former employee of the real Pravda (writer? janitor?), but the
former editor of the real Pravda, Aleksandr Ilyin, has tried to
stop the fake Pravda from using the name of the real Pravda - so
far unsuccessfully.

The fake Pravda trades on the name of the former newspaper, but
has no relation to it (or to actual news reporting for that
matter). It is just one of those fake-news entertainment
tabloids, but with a name you'd remember.








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              Re: Richard Dolan's X-Conference Review - Kaeser

From: Steven Kaeser <steve.nul>
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 12:56:10 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 13:45:10 -0400
Subject: Re: Richard Dolan's X-Conference Review - Kaeser


>From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22.nul>
>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 06:13:32 -0700
>Subject: Re: Richard Dolan's X-Conference Review

<snip>

>I was favorably impressed with Corso Sr. when I met him in 1997
>and had dinner table conversations with him, but I was dismayed
>when I heard him support the Carlos Diaz story now known to be a
>fraud. But that was a mild disappointment compared to hearing
>the diatribe uttered by Jr. at the X-Conference. I don't mean to
>be harsh, but Corso Jr. in expounding on the details of the
>Roswell craft after passing out illustrations of the Testor
>model made it clear to all that it was he who built the craft in
>some uncertain future which then was launched through time from
>the year 2032 only to crash land in our year of 1947 and
>altering the timeline for one and all. While I do entertain
>theories of time travel, this exposition left me with the
>feeling that Corso Jr., who was asking support for his efforts,
>and relating his relationship to aviator Burt Rutan, was going
>to go down as the man who built the first time machine
>regardless of the fact that he gave me absolutely no confidence
>that he had any proficiency in engineering or physics. He simply
>said that many men had their Harley Davidson which they admired
>and this was his own private Harley Davidson!

>Roswell mystery solved: It was a time machine built and launched
>by Phil Corso Jr. This is a cogent reason among others to
>reaffirm my plans to retire from this field.

I believe many have faded away from the field, as it becomes
more an more difficult to separate nonsense from reality.
Thankfully the newspaper didn't pick up on this, or we'd all be
labeled as believing that a time travelller caused the Roswell
incident.


Steve








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               Re: Pravda On "Mass Disappearances" - Hamilton

From: Bill Hamilton <skyman22.nul>
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 10:51:03 -0700
Fwd Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 14:01:41 -0400
Subject: Re: Pravda On "Mass Disappearances" - Hamilton


>From: Ray Stanford <dinotracker.nul>
>To: <ufoupdates.nul>
>Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 09:36:12 -0400
>Subject: Re: Pravda On "Mass Disappearances"

>>From: Kenny Young <ufo.nul>
>>To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <ufoupdates.nul>
>>Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 01:30:38 -0400
>>Subject: Pravda On "Mass Disappearances"

>>Source: Pravda

>>http://english.pravda.ru/science/19/94/377/12624_Holes.html

>>04-26-04

>>"Black Holes" Devour People
>>Pravda

><snip>

>>Researcher Richard Lazarus suggests that meteorites are behind
>>these mysteries. During their fall on the ground, celestial
>>bodies are charged with a potential as high as billions of volt.
>>On hitting Earth's surface they explode with a violent force, as
>>it happened near the River Tunguska, Siberia. But sometimes
>>meteorites fall apart before they reach Earth, hitting it with a
>>huge wave of energy that creates electrostatic levitation. Under
>>these circumstances, large groups of people, ships or even
>>trains may be lifted up and transferred across vast distances.

><snip>

>Hogwash! Or, in other words, Pravda (also Richard Lazarus) is
>shoveling out figurative bovine excrement. Let me comment upon
>this particular example of myth-making:

>The plasma generated by the hypersonic passage of cosmic bodies
>(that become meteorites upon striking the ground) through the
>very upper reaches of earth's atmosphere is dissipated (unless
>they are of extremely large and rare size) upon retardation from
>cosmic (orbital) velocity and ceases to further be generated,
>usually at above twenty miles altitude.

>The Tunguska cosmic body (interpreted by most who have studied
>the evidence as having been a small comet) did not hit the
>earth's surface at all, contrary to the statement, above. It
>exploded far above the earth with energy that was detected
>around the world. Its hypersonic shock wave was what did the
>damage on the ground. The reports by some that it varied its
>trajectory are easily explained by pressure-induced side
>explosions (some due to out-gassing of, perhaps, cometary water
>or even solids), sometimes seen and even photographically
>recorded in even much less energetic meteoritic events.

Additional theories and data:

The precise cause of the Tunguska event remains unknown. In
scientific circles, the leading explanation for the blast is the
impact of a meteorite. A related suggestion is that a meteorite
exploded just above the Earth's surface. Whether the meteorite
was of cometary or asteroidal origin is still a matter of
controversy. Whatever the original cause of the event is, much
of the data supports that the cause resembled a nuclear
explosion.

In the absence of an obvious explanation, numerous alternative
theories have been offered, such as a small black hole passing
through the Earth, an impact from a piece of antimatter, and
even the catastrophic destruction of a nuclear-powered alien
spacecraft. However, there has not been much evidence for these
exotic ideas, and simpler theories are available.

In 1930, the British astronomer F.J.W. Whipple suggested that
the Tunguska event was produced by the impact of a small comet.
A cometary meteorite, being composed primarily of ices and dust,
could have completely vaporized by the impact with the Earth's
atmosphere, leaving no obvious traces. The idea of a comet
impact was supported by the "skyglows" observed across Europe
for several evenings after the impact, apparently caused by dust
that had been dispersed across the upper atmosphere. In
addition, chemical analyses of the area have showed it to be
enriched in cometary material.

The comet idea remained popular for over 50 years, with some
astronomers speculating that it might have been a piece of the
short-period Comet Encke. Materials from Encke appear to make up
the stream of space debris that create the Beta Perseid meteor
shower, and the Tunguska event coincided with a peak in that
shower.

In 1983, an astronomer named Zdenek Sekanina, working the NASA
Jet Propulsion Laboratory, published a paper that undermined the
comet theory. Sekanina pointed out that eyewitness accounts and
other evidence point only to one explosion, and that the object
passed through the atmosphere at a shallow angle, remaining
intact to an altitude of 8.5 kilometers. A body composed of ice
and gases could not have travelled such a distance without
disintegrating. Proponents of the comet theory have suggested,
in reply, that the object might have been an extinct comet with
a stony mantle that allowed it to penetrate the atmosphere.

Based on this data from Wikipedia, Ray, it seems like the comet
theory is also in question, though, I must admit that you have
come up with a logical deduction on why it was changing course
due to outgassing, but then if it were a normal comet of ice and
gases, it most likely would have disintegrated as it is
conjectured mini comets disintegrate into water vapor as they
strike the upper layers of atmosphere.


Bill H.









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   Apr > Apr 30

              The Black Vault Television Series Begins Filming

From: John Greenewald Jr. <tbvfuture.nul>
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 10:57:42 -0700 (Pacific Standard Time)
Fwd Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 14:41:41 -0400
Subject: The Black Vault Television Series Begins Filming


The Black Vault Television Series Begins Filming

NORTHRIDGE (BlackVault) - April 29, 2004 =96 The Black Vault has
taken another step toward appearing on your television screens!
After years of developing, planning, pitching and waiting, The
Black Vault recently completed a week long trip to Washington
D.C. to film the first round of interviews intended for use in
the show.

The setting was the =93X-Conference=94, the first Exopolitics
Convention attended by many of the world=92s most qualified and
credible researchers, authors, scientists and governmental
staffers on the subject of UFO disclosure. The cameras
artistically captured interviews with an impressive =93who=92s who=94
list of international experts on several areas of secret
government documents that need to be shown to the television
public.

Based on the website, www.blackvault.com, visited by millions of
people throughout it=92s eight years online, the TV show is best
described as =93the real X-Files=94. Set to tackle subjects like the
UFO phenomenon, human chemical / biological chemical tests,
recent releases on the J.F.K conspiracy and so much more =96 this
show takes full advantage of the website=92s enormous database of
declassified documents as the foundation for it=92s episodic
stories. Some of the experts interviewed suggest Black Vault TV
will be one of the most explosive programs ever to hit the
airwaves.

The Black Vault TV show will be one of the most ground-breaking
truth campaigns ever devised, exposing thousands of recently
declassified government records on subjects that affect the
public, but rarely get headlines.

Thousands of letters, emails and web postings have poured in
since The Black Vault first announced the TV show, most all
indicating support, encouragement and anticipation of the show=92s
premiere. The overwhelming  consensus is that this is a show
that must be made, and one that can make a difference!

Details on the Black Vault TV show air dates and network have
not yet been announced, but to learn more about the series and
explore the fascinating declassified stories, you should visit:

http://www.blackvault.com

Direct link to pictures:

http://www.bvalphaserver.com/modules.php?name=3Dcoppermine&file=3Dthumbnails=
&album=3D2

----------

John Greenewald, Jr.

The Black Vault Headquarters

18127 Parthenia St. #105

Northridge, Ca. 91325

Interview Requests can be submitted to john.nul and
is available at any time.

Sincerely,

John Greenewald, Jr.
The Black Vault Headquarters
http://www.blackvault.com









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                          Secrecy News -- 04/30/04

From: Steven Aftergood <saftergood.nul>
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 14:11:09 -0400
Fwd Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 14:44:14 -0400
Subject: Secrecy News -- 04/30/04


SECRECY NEWS
from the FAS Project on Government Secrecy
Volume 2004, Issue No. 41
April 30, 2004


**      THE MYSTERY OF THE COALITION PROVISIONAL AUTHORITY
**      SOME MORE NEW CRS PRODUCTS
**      DECLASSIFICATION OF CLARKE TESTIMONY SOUGHT
**      THE GORELICK FILES
**      REVOKING SECURITY CLEARANCES OF FELONS
**      ESTABLISHING THE IRAQI NATIONAL INTELLIGENCE SERVICE


THE MYSTERY OF THE COALITION PROVISIONAL AUTHORITY

The Coalition Provisional Authority (CPA) is the entity led by
Amb. Paul Bremer that is responsible for managing and overseeing
the reconstruction of Iraq.

But what species of organization is the CPA? And how exactly was
it established? These are mysteries.

"It is unclear whether CPA is a federal agency," according to
a new report from the Congressional Research Service that is
the bureaucratic equivalent of a "thriller."

"No explicit, unambiguous, and authoritative statement has been
provided that declares how the authority was established, under
what authority, and by whom."

Clarification of the CPA's nature and status "will remain
relevant even after CPA's scheduled dissolution on June 30,
2004, for questions may remain about what it did, how it spent
money, and what it accomplished."

The new CRS report probes the matter in wonkish depth over 38
pages later but without a clear resolution. A copy of the report
was obtained by Secrecy News.

See "The Coalition Provisional Authority (CPA): Origin,
Characteristics, and Institutional Authorities" by L. Elaine
Halchin, Congressional Research Service, April 29, 2004:

http://www.fas.org/man/crs/RL32370.pdf


SOME MORE NEW CRS PRODUCTS

Numerous new and newly updated Congressional Research Service
reports have been issued in recent days and weeks. Some of these
include the following:

"Presidential Advisers' Testimony Before Congressional
Committees: A Brief Overview," updated April 14, 2004:
http://www.fas.org/irp/crs/RL31351.pdf

"Homeland Security: The Presidential Coordination Office,"
updated March 30, 2004:
http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/RL31148.pdf

"Homeland Security: Department Organization and Management
-- Implementation Phase," updated April 28, 2004:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/RL31751.pdf

"Globalizing Cooperative Threat Reduction: A Survey of
Options," April 15, 2004:

http://www.fas.org/spp/starwars/crs/RL32359.pdf

"Disarming Libya: Weapons of Mass Destruction," April 22,
2004:

http://www.fas.org/spp/starwars/crs/RS21823.pdf

"Foreign Aid: An Introductory Overview of U.S. Programs and
Policy," updated April 15, 2004:

http://www.fas.org/man/crs/98-916.pdf

"NATO and the European Union," April 6, 2004:

http://www.fas.org/man/crs/RL32342.pdf

Direct public access to CRS reports like these is not
authorized, and is in fact discouraged, by the U.S. Congress.


DECLASSIFICATION OF CLARKE TESTIMONY SOUGHT

Classification policy continues to serve as a surrogate
battlefield for disputes over the Iraq war, September 11, and
related issues.

In an April 28 letter, House Democrats asked Speaker of the
House Dennis Hastert to expedite the declassification of
testimony presented in 2002 by then-counterterrorism adviser
Richard Clarke. (Strictly speaking, the Speaker does not have
the authority to perform such declassification.) See their
letter here: http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/2004_cr/h042804.pdf

Likewise, Sen. Bob Graham (D-FL) this week proposed to introduce
an amendment expressing the sense of the Senate that the Clarke
testimony should be declassified, though it was not introduced
in the end due to procedural obstacles. See the text here:

http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/2004_cr/sa3074.html


THE GORELICK FILES

The Justice Department on Wednesday declassified and posted on
the web more documents pertaining to former Deputy Attorney
General Jamie Gorelick, currently a member of the 9/11
Commission, and her role in implementing the legal "wall" that
distinguished intelligence and law enforcement information.

The Justice Department was responding -- with uncommon alacrity
-- to a request from Sen. John Cornyn (R-TX) and Sen. Lindsey
Graham (R-SC) for release of such records. They had requested
declassification of the documents a mere two days earlier.

Unexpectedly, the Justice move drew a rebuke from the White
House.

"I think [the President is] disappointed that that information
was placed on their Web site like that," said White House
spokesman Scott McClellan. "We were not involved in that."

A copy of the newly declassified documents, which remain on the
Justice Department web site despite the White House expression
of disappointment, is here (29 pages, 1.5 MB PDF file):
http://www.fas.org/irp/agency/doj/1995_wall.pdf

The April 28 remarks of Sen. Cornyn regarding the documents and
his view of Ms. Gorelick may be found here:

http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/2004_cr/s042804b.html


REVOKING SECURITY CLEARANCES OF FELONS

A statute known as the Smith Amendment, enacted in October 2000,
prohibits the Defense Department from granting or renewing a
security clearance for anyone who has been convicted of a felony
and sentenced to a year or more in jail.

Since the measure was adopted, "hundreds of people, many of whom
who have had clearances for 20 or 30 years, have had their
security clearances revoked," notes Sheldon I. Cohen, a
specialist in security clearance policy.

This is not entirely good news, Cohen argues, because in
practice the new policy does not allow sufficient leeway for
special circumstances or the passage of time, and so it excludes
persons who need not or should not be excluded from the
personnel security clearance system.

The Defense Department was supposed to report to Congress last
January on the implementation of the policy, but has still
failed to do so.

"Hopefully," suggests Cohen, "when the Department of Defense
does file its assessment report, the adverse effect of the Smith
Amendment on the national defense will become so obvious it will
be repealed."

See "Smith Amendment Update" by Sheldon I. Cohen, May 2004,
here:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/eprint/smithamend2.pdf


ESTABLISHING THE IRAQI NATIONAL INTELLIGENCE SERVICE

The Coalition Provisional Authority (CPA), whatever its
provenance and powers may be, authorized the Iraqi Governing
Council earlier this month to establish a new Iraqi
intelligence service.

The function of the new Iraqi National Intelligence Service
(INIS) is "to collect, analyze, and disseminate accurate and
timely information related to the national defense and other
threats to the security of Iraq."

"The INIS will be a wholly distinct and separate entity from
any intelligence services that have previously existed in
Iraq," according to CPA Order 69, issued in April 2004.

The Charter of the new Iraqi National Intelligence Service
(INIS) may be found here (9 pages, 700 KB PDF file):

http://www.fas.org/irp/world/iraq/inis.pdf


_______________________________________________
Secrecy News is written by Steven Aftergood and published by the
Federation of American Scientists.

To SUBSCRIBE to Secrecy News, send email tosecrecy_news-request.nul
with "subscribe" in the body of the message.

OR email your request to saftergood.nul

Secrecy News is archived at:http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/secrecy/index.html

_______________________
Steven Aftergood
Project on Government Secrecy
Federation of American Scientists
web:  www.fas.org/sgp/index.html
email: saftergood.nul
voice: (202) 454-4691